# Does My Mare Fit Their Standards?



## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

Hello all,

Wow am I starting a bunch of threads today!  Lol, anyways - I would like to register my mare with NASPR, but does she fit their standards?

Link: American Sportpony Registry - Background & Mission Statement

"A NorthAmerican Sportpony is a pony in the general range of 13.2-14.2 h that looks and moves like a small horse, capable of competing in the Olympic disciplines of Jumping, Dressage, and Eventing, as well as in Driving. It is not your traditional Thellwell type of pony, but rather is much more athletic and horse-like in appearance and ability.The term "NorthAmerican Sportpony" is considered a type, not a particular breed of pony (with the exception of ponies of Draft blood being excluded) and therefore we find sportponies made up of everything from Welsh to New Forest to Thoroughbred bloodlines.
Movement is paramount to the quality NorthAmerican Sportpony, and that movement should have great suspension, articulation, impulsion and elasticity. The type does not strive for the traditional "daisy-cutter", flat-kneed movement that is so popular in the hunter ring today, but it is not excluded as a factor within the NorthAmerican Sportpony Registry. Therefore, the "hunter type" of pony, especially one which excels in jumping and has the conformation and "look" the type strives for, can be considered a NorthAmerican Sportpony.
All ponies accepted into the Registry must undergo an inspection and be DNA-typed. It is in this way that pedigrees can be documented from this point forward, even with breeding stock that is currently of unknown parentage. Stallions accepted into the Registry undergo additional performance and progeny requirements (detailed on our Inspection and Grading page).
*Height:*138 - 148 cm (13.2 - 14.2) NorthAmerican Sport Ponies being inspected as breeding stock may fall outside this ideal range.
*Colors:* All
_*Conformation*_*:*
*Head:* Small and regal with defined jaws (no puffiness), a clean throatlatch, kind eyes, nostrils that are large and wide and small ears.
*Neck:*Long, wide and well set on, narrowing towards the poll.
*Body:* Refinement obvious more so than in any other pony breed with emphasis toward an athletic riding type. Exhibits a longer neck, higher and more pronounced withers, a longer croup that is slightly sloping with a tail set at medium height and slender through the girth.
*Limbs:* Dry limbs with flat knees, correct alignment, dense and medium sized hooves.
*Movement:* Regular and correct cadence with a large stride. Even, energetic and elastic rhythm. No exaggerated knee action. Exhibits significant impulsion from the hindquarters.
*Special Hallmarks:*An easy keeper, good natured ready and willing to go, courageous and intelligent."


(^That is from the link posted above :wink:^)


Here is my mare, Savannah;














































































Savannah's movement.


She is "gaited", because she has Icelandic horse blood. She "prances", not really trotting. Her feet pick up, instead of move out, if that makes sense. 
12.2hh..

Thank you all. :]

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## missy567 (Jan 27, 2010)

I think she would except you said she is 12.2 and they want 13.2 to 14.2


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

Thank you, but I meant movement.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

I am not so sure she would be accepted...she doesn't really exhibit 'horse-like' traits at all...she definitely displays ponyish traits in her body type and style of motion. Her height also disqualifies her if they are nit-picky on that...


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

As much as can be judged from still photos, your pony is a nice sporthorse mover: decent length of stride, some overtrack, definitely moving from behind. 

The area is which she is most questionable regarding the standard is this: "*Neck: *Long, wide and well set on, narrowing towards the poll."

Her neck is narrower than the ideal, and set higher than is considered desirable. 

I don't know if that will exclude her from the registry, but you asked for a critique of her by the registry standard,

Also, I wouldn't mention the Icelandic blood or the tendency towards gaitedness or prancing - that seems contrary to what this registry is looking for. 

One other point - I'm assuming you have a big emotional attachement to this mare and are determined to have a foal out of her? I read your thread re: the stallions you were considering (I prefered the second one, btw). I do have to say that your mare, while nice, is simply not the same quality as the stallions you're looking at. If your goal is the best quality foal you can produce, you'd be better off leasing a broodmare or buying a foal in utero. It would also be a lot cheaper. 

However, I suspect strongly that the point of this endeavor is for you preserving some of your beloved mare's characteristics, and that you're breeding because you adore the mare, not because you're trying to produce a certain quality of offspring. If that's the case, good luck and have fun raising your baby.


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

maura said:


> As much as can be judged from still photos, your pony is a nice sporthorse mover: decent length of stride, some overtrack, definitely moving from behind.
> 
> The area is which she is most questionable regarding the standard is this: "*Neck: *Long, wide and well set on, narrowing towards the poll."
> 
> ...


In no way am I "emotionally attached". I can't find a desirable broodmare to lease (or I haven't yet, I should say). How would it be cheaper? I would have to pay lease on the mare + stud fee + pregnant mare care + foaling costs, when I could pay for all of that with my mare minus the lease? I have been looking into a mare that I can "rent out her uterus", but as I stated above.. I've yet to find one. If I find a mare (preferably a reg. Welsh mare) that I can afford (wether it's a lease or to buy) I will happily set up a breeding with her instead of Savannah.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Sorry, but if she is gaited...that would nix it.

She is cute, but she would have to go through an inspection to be judged as to her qualities. They judge overall conformation and then they trot out. If she gaits, that would end her chances. They want a long, lofty TROT.

If she could trot, you would need to know how to handle her properly. How to pose and present, how to trot her out etc. You would never pose her the way one of the photos shows her. Never with her head straight up. You need to train her to reach with her head, arching her neck to show it off.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

If you're not emotionally attached to the mare; then why are you breeding her? Is there something in her performance history that recommends her? 

Why not just buy a foal by one of those stallions?


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

Thanks Alison.. 

maura: (this is going to sound so immature...) I want the foaling experience. If you read my other threads (the critique and a few others I have recently posted) then you would understand why I am trying to educate myself, and trying to "help" my mare.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

At the risk of being flamed...If it's "just" for the foaling experience, then I think you are breeding for the wrong reason...jmho. I know you've talked alot about her behavior and how difficult she's been to work with in the past, and along with her less than desirable conformation, and build, those are all traits that can be passed on to her foal...you are wanting an athletic foal, who can jump and do things mom can't do, but you've got to look at mom; if she can't do some of those things, do you honestly thing a foal out of her will be able to do them any better than her, no matter how nice the stallion you breed her too is? A stallion will only be able to improve so much on your baby...he's only half the picture, here...your mare is the other half. 

Now if she had really desirable conformation; nice hip, good shoulder, good legs, etc, along with really nice temperment, THEN I would think about breeding her, regardless of her grade status, because then you would likely get a foal that has those desirable traits as well. However, because she doesn't have those, you are taking the chance of having a foal that has crappy conformation, and a hard to work with attitude...regardless of how lovely the stallion's confo and attitude is.


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

mom2pride said:


> At the risk of being flamed...If it's "just" for the foaling experience, then I think you are breeding for the wrong reason...jmho. I know you've talked alot about her behavior and how difficult she's been to work with in the past, and along with her less than desirable conformation, and build, those are all traits that can be passed on to her foal...you are wanting an athletic foal, who can jump and do things mom can't do, but you've got to look at mom; if she can't do some of those things, do you honestly thing a foal out of her will be able to do them any better than her, no matter how nice the stallion you breed her too is? A stallion will only be able to improve so much on your baby...he's only half the picture, here...your mare is the other half.
> 
> *Now if she had really desirable conformation; nice hip, good shoulder, good legs, etc, along with really nice temperment, THEN I would think about breeding her, regardless of her grade status, because then you would likely get a foal that has those desirable traits as well. However, because she doesn't have those, you are taking the chance of having a foal that has crappy conformation, and a hard to work with attitude...regardless of how lovely the stallion's confo and attitude is.*


Flamed? Nah, I'm used to these type of responses. 

To respond to the text in red: yes her conformation is not the best, which sort of pushes me towards the "don't breed her" side. She does possess some other traits I am very pleased with. He eagerness to work, when we're both on the same page. I have complained about her being hard to work with, but I mostly blame my behavior now that I look back on it. She only reacted "badly" or "negatively", because I as a handler/rider was screwing up. I don't blame her for her actions, I now believe they were reasonable due to the circumstances. Mom (Savannah) can jump, and depending on how she does this summer at local shows, plus the vet check for breeding stability will be the factor if I decide on breeding her or not. She's the only pony I've ever been on that tries to cut goats, or herd them for that matter. I would like to do something like team penning along with hunter/jumper, but her size kind of.. depletes(? Am I using that in the right context?) that. She jumps no problem, ponying off of other horses or ponies, works the goats, and even hauls little kids around. Last summer I taught my friend how to w/t/c on her, before she became "the wretched mare" (which I think is because of the saddle not fitting right, or the rider's incompetence [?Right context?]).. Let me stop before I start to ramble off. 

Responding to the bold text: I know what a crapshoot breeding is, even with two "good" horses. 

Ultimately - whatever the vet recommends I will follow. I will take his (or her, depending on who sees Savannah) veterinary opinion [for soundness and breeding capability], and their personal opinion. Otherwise her placing this summer in shows will also determine if I feel she could produce a foal that could lead a career in that discipline. 

I'm not just some 14-year-old saying "Oh I want a foal! I have a mare so that means she can have babies! Yayy let's breed her and have babies!" - no. I want to fully think this through and I will not "do something" until Savannah proves herself.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

I commend your attitude, and your committment to do the research and get an education and your willingness to accept direction from your vet. Good for you. That's not immature. At all. 

My wish for you would be that you find a more suitable mare for your project. You obviously have the ability to do the research and leg work to find one, so it's an option. But whatever mare you chose to breed, good luck! Hope you have a wonderful time with this.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Usually the stable that has the stallions have mares to lease for a breeding.


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

maura said:


> I commend your attitude, and your committment to do the research and get an education and your willingness to accept direction from your vet. Good for you. That's not immature. At all.
> 
> My wish for you would be that you find a more suitable mare for your project. You obviously have the ability to do the research and leg work to find one, so it's an option. But whatever mare you chose to breed, good luck! Hope you have a wonderful time with this.



Thank you. 



churumbeque said:


> Usually the stable that has the stallions have mares to lease for a breeding.


I don't think this one does, but of course I will ask. :] Thanks.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

I notice you're in Virginia. You could contact the VPBA, the Virginia Pony Breeder's Association. There are a lot of Welsh pony breeders in the state, that might be a good resource for you.

www.vpba.com


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

maura said:


> I notice you're in Virginia. You could contact the VPBA, the Virginia Pony Breeder's Association. There are a lot of Welsh pony breeders in the state, that might be a good resource for you.
> 
> www.vpba.com



Thank you, when I have more time I will look.  If you don't mind sharing, how close are you to Fredericksburg?


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## Sissimut-icehestar (Jan 20, 2008)

Just FYI, Icelandic horses trot, just like any other horse. If her trot is not normal there is something not right, maybe just that she is out of shape or something like that, but just being icelandic would not cause a strange trot.


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

Sissimut-icehestar said:


> Just FYI, Icelandic horses trot, just like any other horse. If her trot is not normal there is something not right, maybe just that she is out of shape or something like that, but just being icelandic would not cause a strange trot.


She can trot, she just doesn't choose trot like.. Outward.


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