# Helping a friend who keeps losing



## DreamerR (Dec 17, 2017)

So, this is a very long story I'm going to try and keep down. Also I don't want to see any comments telling me I'm a bad friend, I have a big ego, or I'm being mean. 


So at the barn I show with there is this girl I became good friends with. We are going to call her Kate because I'm sure she doesn't want me using her real name. So Kate and I became close friends considering we both loved horses and couldn't afford to buy one. We met at the ranch last summer. Whenever we rode I never really paid attention to how she was riding because we were just having a good time and not paying attention to the uptight things. Now, show season rolled around and she went into the trot ground poles division and I went to crossrails instead of 2 ft because Justice doesn't like fillers. 


I finally watched her ride and it didn't go as I thought it would, she doesn't know how to tell her diagonals, she doesn't go into two point and gets thrown forward when going over jumps. The trainer tells her what she needs to do to improve but she never does it. Here is the hard part, she gets 5th place in every class. She goes against a 5 year old, and 8 year old on a mini pony, and 2 twins on shetlend ponies. She then comes to me crying everytime and complaining on how she never does well and she is a terrible rider. 


Of course I tell her that she isn't and it was just bad luck, but the complaining is driving me CRAZY. All we talk about any more is placing. She always compares herself to me and then will cry because she only has 5th place ribbons. When I don't respond to her complaining she gets snappy and mean. I do feel bad for her and I don't want this to ruin our friendship, but at the same time I don't want to act like her trainer or have this be the center of our friendship anymore. 


Any advice?


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

LydiaAndJustice said:


> So, this is a very long story I'm going to try and keep down. Also I don't want to see any comments telling me I'm a bad friend, I have a big ego, or I'm being mean. So at the barn I show with there is this girl I became good friends with. We are going to call her Kate because I'm sure she doesn't want me using her real name. So Kate and I because close friends considering we both loved horses and couldn't afford to buy one. We met at the ranch last summer. Whenever we rode I never really paid attention to how she was riding because we were just having a good time and not paying attention to the uptight things. Now, show season rolled around and she went into the trot ground poles division and I went to crossrails instead of 2 ft because Justice doesn't like fillers. I finally watched her ride and it didn't go as I thought it would, she doesn't know how to tell her diagonals, she doesn't go into two point and gets thrown forward when going over jumps. The trainer tells her what she needs to do to improve but she never does it. Here is the hard part, she gets 5th place in every class. She goes against a 5 year old, and 8 year old on a mini pony, and 2 twins on shetlend ponies. She then comes to me crying everytime and complaining on how she never does well and she is a terrible rider. Of course I tell her that she isn't and it was just bad luck, but the complaining is driving me CRAZY. All we talk about any more is placing. She always compares herself to me and then will cry because she only has 5th place ribbons. When I don't respond to her complaining she gets snappy and mean. I do feel bad for her and I don't want this to ruin our friendship, but at the same time I don't want to act like her trainer or have this be the center of our friendship anymore. Any advice?


Tell her she needs to work with the trainer to improve and if she's not interested in the work, she should just trail ride. Let her know that while you're happy to be supportive, if she's trying, you're not there to listen to her whine when she's not.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

"You have a good start, but there are some finer points to your riding that need improvement to be higher in the ribbons. Your trainer can help you with that, but you need to listen to what she's telling you."

Part of life if learning consequences. If she isn't willing to put in the work, she won't be successful. That's the way the world works. If she's not wanting to work on the details, then perhaps showing isn't for her.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I'm not going to tell you are a bad friend or anything else....
No bashing from me nor should there be from anyone else either.
You're trying and that says a lot about you....good things.

So, bottom line is....
You yourself are about the same age as your "friend".
You are no expert, your own form is on a beginners level and you do not have the expertise to "teach" another something you yourself have not mastered.
That is _not_ being mean, _that is being honest._
Please do not offer your friend advice, instruction or criticism as it is the fastest way to destroy and ruin your friendship.
Most people take criticism, teaching, and instruction better from a stranger than a friend...truth.
Instead reinforce she needs to listen to her trainer, work hard during lessons and practice not only when she rides but in her head what she is being taught so she knows to do certain things instinctively, kind of like breathing...it just happens.
So does riding and doing certain things when you do them enough...it becomes second nature and "easy".

Tell your friend she is taking the fun out of just hanging out for you if she only wants to compare what you are doing and competing levels of riding...
Friends are supportive of each other but there is a limit before the relationship will be damaged and go down the drain.
If she would like to just ride together, hang out and talk horses fine...but she needs to stop comparing both of you, what you ride, how you ride or it isn't fun for you to be with her...and you won't want to hang around with her anymore.
Sometimes you need to get a little tough, but do it with kindness nor bullying.
Choose your words carefully when you speak with her...
Make this more about being riding buddies and having fun than about being competitive rivals...
Riding should always be fun or what is the point of it??:|

Remember....
Listen to the words first in your head you want to say...
If they can be offensive or offending.._.don't say them._
Do not come off as being "better".
_I'm already knowing that is* not *your intention..._
It hurts your friends pride that the classes she rides in she not do as well in...
Remember that classes that appear to be one thing may have more experienced riders and teams of horse & rider combinations that have been together for years in lessons, shows and just in ownership...you don't know the entire story yourself either.
What you think you know or see may indeed be something very different.
:runninghorse2:...
_jmo..._


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

You are not mean at all - I completely understand your frustration about having to deal with complaints about things you have no control over. So *I* am going to be mean for you.

Your friend's problem is that she's riding for the ribbons and not to become a better rider, let alone a better horsewoman. (As an aside: How does she interact with her horse compared to you? Does she find intrinsic reward in the horse's companionship?) 

You probably take pride in _improving your riding_, and the success at the shows is a natural _byproduct_. If she keeps this same attitude, your friend will never succeed - not in terms of ribbons, nor in terms of feeling successful herself. I don't know that she loves riding as much as you - I'm going to say, "No." 

One of two things will happen: She will continue whining until you will have had enough of it and tell her to get lost, or she will give up on riding and you will drift apart because it is the main thing over which you currently bond.

It is what it is. Miracles do happen...sometimes.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

LydiaAndJustice said:


> She then comes to me crying everytime and complaining on how she never does well and she is a terrible rider. Of course I tell her that she isn't and it was just bad luck, but the complaining is driving me CRAZY.


Why do you tell her it is just bad luck, when you think she is a bad rider? That is not being a friend, not at all. A friend is the one person who should be able to say, in the nicest possible way, that.."Well today wasn't your day, the others rode better, so what are we going to do to fix it?"

LOL, My coach is also my friend, and when I came out of my first class at the first show this year, she looked me straight in the eye and said "I can't think of one positive thing to say about that, now what went wrong" We talked about it...I get two minutes to sulk, standard barn rule, no taking it out on your horse, or other members, but you get a couple of minutes to cry, swear, go outside and punch something, then you are expected to be ready to chat about how to fix whatever went wrong and move forward.

My best show buddy and I NEVER lie to each other, if asked what went wrong, and we know, we will tell it like it is......or just video the class and let her see the issues for herself, that usually is when reality bites...


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## DreamerR (Dec 17, 2017)

Golden Horse said:


> Why do you tell her it is just bad luck, when you think she is a bad rider? That is not being a friend, not at all. A friend is the one person who should be able to say, in the nicest possible way, that.."Well today wasn't your day, the others rode better, so what are we going to do to fix it?"
> 
> I would have but she tends to have burst outs that can get out of control. I try to tell her its all just a learning experince so it doesn't matter about the ribbons, but she always is like "Easy for you to say, you got 1st in your classes so you don't get it" the hard thing is that she is such a fun person to hangout with and be friends with when we aren't at shows. And I can't just not be friends with her because we see each other almost every week


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

LydiaAndJustice said:


> I would have but she tends to have burst outs that can get out of control. I try to tell her its all just a learning experince so it doesn't matter about the ribbons, but she always is like "Easy for you to say, you got 1st in your classes so you don't get it"


When she has an outburst, walk away. Don't get sucked in and participate in her drama. Yes, I know that's a lot easier to say than to do, it's taken me almost 60 years to learn it. 

When she says, "you got 1st in your classes so you don't get it.", you say, "Oh but I do. I got first because I listen, I practice, and I sweat. I don't walk in and just get handed a ribbon.". 

She needs to learn to ride for the ride and not the ribbon. Riding is tough work and if you don't enjoy sweating and doing things over and over, for you and for the horse, then riding at shows is never going to be terribly rewarding because everyone is constantly going to pass you by because they are working when you're playing. 

I've been riding since I was a very young child. I started out hunt seat, progressed to jumping the big stuff, then went to western pleasure & trail for about 13 years and now have started taking Western Dressage lessons and, honest, I've gone back to Kindergarten. It's like I've never ridden at all, I have to learn so much. I just got through with a 2.5 hr lesson on Monday and I wouldn't have even gotten a score if I'd been riding a test. It was BAAAAAAAAAAD, but I stayed with it until my instructor told me "NAILED IT!". If we'd been at a show and I'd just ridden a test, I might have gotten a comment from the judge in the form of, "WHAT are you thinking doing a test? Come back when you can do the basics.". Next time I go to a show I may or may not have a great ride, but it won't be for lack of trying to improve. Your friend is whining about not being rewarded but she's not putting in the work. 

Being friends with someone like that is no picnic, you're going to either end up having to enable her until you get a belly full and then you'll tell her to shut up and probably some other unkind things, and there goes the friendship, or you'll try to diplomatically tell her she needs to work and listen to the instructor to improve. She may or may not take that well and it may or may not cause a rip in the friendship, either way, it's on her to do the work, not on you to try and smooth her ruffled ego.


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## pennywise (Feb 1, 2016)

Every time she brings this up she's not looking to be told that her riding capabilities are why she's placing so bad; she'd rather take the bad luck response, cry about how lame she feels, and then get over it until the next time. But that won't do. You may just have to bite the bullet and give her a straight answer. My best friend is a lot like this and sometimes I get he worst brain cramp when she brings up a certain subject that I _painfully_ have to bite my tongue during because she's the kind of person (like your friend) who wants to be consoled and pat on the back instead of receiving constructive criticism when she's partially (or fully) to blame for a situation that's causing her grief. I'm in the process of working through it. The unfortunate thing about it is that it's never going to be a one-time thing unless you're willing to risk tipping the boat for a moment to help her come back down to earth. Friendships come and go but there's no use holding onto a friendship in this way. I think everyone would rather have a friendship where neither has to worry about what they should say all the time... I mean, that's just stressful. It's _too_ stressful. She should know, and maybe she needs to hear it from you, that there's nothing embarrassing about acknowledging how bad you are at something so that you can use that sight to improve yourself.


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## Chasin Ponies (Dec 25, 2013)

I've been giving lessons to young girls for 40 years and there is this group that doesn't listen, they don't do the work and they fail at every show. These are the ones that no trainer wants to be associated with as they make the trainer look bad. 

These little girls are all into dressing up in the pretty clothes, showing up with the horse all groomed and tacked up and winning it all with no work involved. It's a dream and they fail every time. I even know grown women that do it, they blame the horse and dump one after another. 

You say you _have_ to be friends because you see her all the time.  Not true and you will learn to be careful who you call friends. Most are just people who pass through your life as acquaintances, not friends. Learning this is just part of life. 

Be honest with her when she comes complaining to you, do not tell her it's "bad luck". Tell her she needs to ask the trainer why she is placing so low and get some help. If she can't handle the truth and has a meltdown, walk away and ignore her. Then, she can either straighten up and listen or stay away from you.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Chasin Ponies said:


> I've been giving lessons to young girls for 40 years and there is this group that doesn't listen, they don't do the work and they fail at every show. These are the ones that no trainer wants to be associated with as they make the trainer look bad.


Yep, have seen this in action. A girl joined my daughter's group lesson. The coach was in the middle of the ring with all the girls riding around her doing down-down-up exercises, and whenever this girl was riding behind the coach, she would just stop posting, letting her body just flop all over the place, and start up again as soon as the coach could see her again. I couldn't believe my eyes. If you knew this coach, you would know that if she ever saw this girl doing that, she'd get crucified. She didn't last long. She wasn't actually trying, just complaining a lot. The coach came down hard on her a couple of times, then the mom stepped in and had words with the BO about how the coach was picking on her daughter. Said daughter started taking lessons with a different coach and was never seen again. 

Not saying this girl falls into that category, but it does sound like she's just not listening, and thinks people win ribbons by some fluke, or by natural talent. While some people have more natural talent than others, everyone has to work really, really hard to improve at this tough sport. 

OP, I agree, if you really want to be a friend, you need to suggest (gently) that perhaps she could at least try to follow the instructor's advice a little more to see if it would help.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

LydiaAndJustice said:


> Golden Horse said:
> 
> 
> > Why do you tell her it is just bad luck, when you think she is a bad rider? That is not being a friend, not at all. A friend is the one person who should be able to say, in the nicest possible way, that.."Well today wasn't your day, the others rode better, so what are we going to do to fix it?"
> ...


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

Once last piece of advice:

I don't know how old you are, I assume mid-to-late teens, maybe a tad younger.

Western Culture and social media has re-defined what a friend is and it's just been in the last 15-20 years. We can thank the internet for that.

If, by the time you're 30, you can count the real friends you have on one hand, minus three fingers, you're blessed. Friends are great to have, but these people our society calls friends today, are not friends. Not really. And those type of people come with more baggage than one person (you) can endure and help carry. 

Look for friends with a load you can bear, and friends that in turn help you with your load.

Cut the freeloaders, the parasites, the vampires, the drama queens, the d-bags and the instigators loose from your life and don't let them in once you learn to identify them early - and that's when you find yourself with two, maybe THREE true friends.

And you'll be happier for it.


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## GMA100 (Apr 8, 2016)

I’m not going to be mean, because that won’t help. But I will be blunt!  That girl is NOT a real friend. A real friend will talk about their mistakes with you openly and honestly. They will admit their mistakes and take your advice to heart. If they’re a true friend, they will ask for true advice that they know might not be what they want to hear. They share things with you because they know you will share things with them if you need help. A true friend isn’t all about having fun, and if the only reason they’re your friend is because they’re fun to be around, then there is a big issue and it most likely wont end up 'fun'.

If she asks for honest advice from you, it is YOUR place to be a true friend and answer _honestly_. If she blows up, walk away. Don’t allow her to get to you and bring you down. Thats not a healthy relationship. Friends lift each other up, not tear each other down. 
If she isn’t willing to work hard, then she won’t succeed. End of story. 

I truly hope Kate learns she has to work hard to succeed and I hope she starts to treat you, as her friend better.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

I'm joining the I'm not going to be mean to you group...BUT this girl is a whiner. Until she gets to the point of instead of complaining about her results (or lack of) and gets to the point of working hard to change things, she will continue to be a drain on you. I know you want to be kind but there will be be a point where you are going to do whatever you can to get away from her. If this continues she will drain all the joy you have from riding and being at the barn.
Encourage her to work harder in her lessons. Hard work and determination brings success. Hopefully she will be willing to put more try into her program.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

She'll either get tired of losing and give up, or buck up and put in the work and improve. In the meantime, when she whines to you about doing poorly at a show, tell her what you observed during her classes, don't make up stories about bad luck.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

I remember being friends with someone like that growing up. A lot of people want to get great results without putting the work into it. Riding is not for the faint of heart and is a lot of work. You truly have to be dedicated. As Walt Disney said "if you can dream it, you can do it" and maybe she just needs that support there to get there.


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## DreamerR (Dec 17, 2017)

*Update*

Last Saturday, we had another show. To set up the story I am just going to say NOT BRAGGING that every show we have gone to this season Justice and I have gotten grand or reserve champion. 2 out of 3 of our classes are based on Justice so its more of the fact that I have the privelage of working with an AMAZING horse. 


At this last show they added in a new jump with the crossrails, it had a gate (which was not suppose to be there because the show manager allowed me to compete below my level so that we wouldn't have to jump fillers) and in our jumping class he refused once but after circling us around he went over it. So we lost points because of the refusal. In the flat class that is judged on Justice (our first class) he spooked when we went by the jump and we crashed into gate. 


He got cut on his upper leg but he was fine and my leg was cut aswell but nothing too serious. As expected, we got last place in the 2 divisions that he spooked at. I wasn't too upset, it was just a bad ride. I was more concerned about Justice and spent the time taking care of his leg. 


Kate got last place in all of her divisions except one where she got 1st. She shows before me, but I told her she did good and she didn't seem too upset. I tried to avoid her because I didn't want to deal with her sob story when I could be spoiling my horse rotten and giving him apples and other treats. 


Later she came up to me with the one first place ribbon on her horses bridle and she was laughing at me and Justice and saying things like, "Wow, you guys didn't do good at all today! "Horse" and I got first place. You can take a picture with our ribbon if you want too" I got up and walked Justice and I away without saying anything else and we haven't talked since. :frown_color:


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

LydiaAndJustice said:


> I got up and walked Justice and I away without saying anything else and we haven't talked since.


This person is definately not worth your energy or your breath. You did exactly what you should have. Don't waste another second thinking about her.

Either kill her with kindness or just walk away. Be the bigger person. Let her find another sucker to hang out with.

Surround yourself with positive people! No one needs to be "friends" with jerks.


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## GMA100 (Apr 8, 2016)

You did the right thing hun. I had a friend like that and it’s not good. My parents made the decision to cut contact off after I knew her since I was 4. I was 13 when we stopped being 'friends'. 
I can honestly say you will be happier now. Don’t worry about her, if she wants to hang out, be nice, but politely decline. I don’t know you, but I’m really proud you cut yourself away this soon! I wish so badly I had done this as it almost ruined the real me because I was scared to stand up or say anything that didn’t agree with her. 
I hope you find another horsey friend to hang out with and that isn’t negative!


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

LydiaAndJustice said:


> ...we got last place in the 2 divisions that he spooked at. I wasn't too upset ... I was more concerned about Justice and spent the time taking care of his leg.


I'm proud of you...


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

Well, I was going to go on a whole thing about if a friend had toilet tissue stuck to her shoe you would tell her right? Go ahead and tell her that her riding sucks but also tell her that you think she has great ability to improve if she wants to and listen to the trainer. But then I read your last post and thought never mind, just walk away. 

This kind of reminds me of when my cousin (a year younger than me) and I were kids and we were at my house. A few of my friends were coming over which one of them happened to be a really cute boy. She spent about an hour and a half in my closet looking for a shirt for me to wear that made my chest look smaller than hers. lol I'll never forget that. The funny thing was that he was not interested in either of us because he had a girlfriend that he really liked so all of her efforts were for nothing. People get the funniest notions in their heads.

Her insecurity sometimes caused her to be mean to me and then accused me of being mean to her which never happened. I wanted her to be happy. This eventually put a bit of a damper on our relationship.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I only read a couple responses but here are my thoughts.


She obviously considers you a trusted friend if she's crying on your shoulders about how she's doing in the show ring. That being said, I know it's hard to try to be honest without being hurtful and hearing the same complaints over and over does wear on you. The thing about your friend is, that it's very possible she THINKS she's doing exactly what the trainer is telling her to do. She may just not be a natural and is going to have to work that much harder to get better. She also may not be UNDERSTANDING what the trainer is tell her, even though she THINKS she is.


You could offer to give her guidance while you are riding together. Then when you are riding you can point out one or two things per ride. Heels down, lower leg back, sit up, look up, whatever... but you will have to pay attention to her reactions. She may resent it and if that's the case then I'd leave it all to the trainer. 


I remember my first summer showing my first horse. We were last place every time. He reared and he bucked in every class. There was a girl that was much younger than me that kicked my butt that summer. It was a hard pill to swallow but we worked hard and in the end... we were the ones kicking butts but it took a long time to get there....


Good luck with your friend.


After I submitted my response I went back and read all the posts. I got to the one where you and Justice had a bad ride. She's jealous. Plain and simple. That's not a healthy friendship at all. She's immature.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Glad you walked away. Good for you. Don't reconnect with this girl, she is not a friend. Friends support each other, build each other up rather than tear each other down.


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## BarbandBadgerandPedro (Apr 3, 2018)

Ditch the (Rhymes). Not worth your time when you have a great horse & a great soul. Poop on her.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

LydiaAndJustice said:


> Last Saturday, we had another show. To set up the story I am just going to say NOT BRAGGING that every show we have gone to this season Justice and I have gotten grand or reserve champion. 2 out of 3 of our classes are based on Justice so its more of the fact that I have the privelage of working with an AMAZING horse.
> 
> 
> At this last show they added in a new jump with the crossrails, it had a gate (which was not suppose to be there because the show manager allowed me to compete below my level so that we wouldn't have to jump fillers) and in our jumping class he refused once but after circling us around he went over it. So we lost points because of the refusal. In the flat class that is judged on Justice (our first class) he spooked when we went by the jump and we crashed into gate.
> ...


Wow. Just wow.

Gotta agree with everyone else - you're free of her baggage, rejoice!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

LydiaAndJustice said:


> He got cut on his upper leg but he was fine and my leg was cut aswell but nothing too serious. As expected, we got last place in the 2 divisions that he spooked at. I wasn't too upset, it was just a bad ride. I was more concerned about Justice and spent the time taking care of his leg.
> 
> 
> Kate got last place in all of her divisions except one where she got 1st. She shows before me, but I told her she did good and she didn't seem too upset. I tried to avoid her because I didn't want to deal with her sob story when I could be spoiling my horse rotten and giving him apples and other treats.
> ...


Wow! What a .... snot. Glad you just walked away, that's the mature thing to do. Be proud of yourself for doing that and don't let her hold you hostage anymore. 

I'm really proud of you for being more concerned with your horses welfare than a $1.98 ribbon. Good for you. That's what real horse people do. You'll both have a better ride next time.


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