# Paint pattern? med. hat? tri?



## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

You all seem to have fun doing this, lol...:lol: so here is my paint mare, Suki. She's three yrs old. What pattern paint? And would she be considered a medicine hat? I've also heard of a war bonnet, but dont really understand the difference between the medicine hat and war bonnet. The red coloring on her head does attach to the one side of her face, but NOT attach to the war sheild on her chest. Her mane covers that detail. And If u cant see in the pics, she has black in her tail and forelocks, and some black spotting on her legs and above her hooves. Is she tri-colored, b/c I have read a few threads on here saying there arent very many true tri colors... I dont get why... lol...


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Ok first things first, no. Bay and white is not tri-coloured, and since that is what she is, no, she isn't tri-coloured. Bay, although made up of brown and black, is still only one colour.

As for her pattern, I see tobiano (definitely) sabino (almost definitely) and MAYBE frame. Actually, looking at her blaze makes me think frame a bit more than maybe, but still not completely certain.


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

What makes her a bay? I dont really get it,can u explain?


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

Horse colors r confusing, lol...


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

brown horse with black mane or tail = bay. The white in her tail and mane are in direct relation to white skin on that area. Since she is a bay and white she is not a true tri colored paint. She is also not a medicine hat/war bonnet. The medicine hat and/or war bonnet is generally though to mean exclusively covering the ears and nothing else on the head.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Bay is a horse with a brown coat and black points. The points of the horse are the legs, ears, muzzle, mane and tail. While you can't see many of her points, you can see her mane is black, and her muzzle and ear tips too.


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

O I see! Altho i probably woulnt b able to pic that out on another horse. Thats why her spotss on her legs r black, b/c if the white wasnt there she'd have black points?! And a medicine hat is really only allowed to have a war shield and all white, right? And about her pattern...which of the three? or all? lol...


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

Here's a medicine hat (my boy):


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

Her momma was a medicine hat. Only on one ear tho, and one fist sized spot on her chest. Blue eyes too!


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

Pocco1220 what happened to his ear?


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

Wheatermay said:


> Pocco1220 what happened to his ear?


Caught in a fence line as a foal LONG before I knew him. One scar on his leg from it as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

Suki ran into the corner of our run in shelter the first day i had her and has a nice skin tag above her eye.


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## HorseLovinLady (Jul 18, 2011)

Suki looks tovero to me, but whatever pattern she is she's beautiful!! I'm partial to paints of course!


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

A tri-color paint IS very rare then! I dont get this whole color thing tho, but I understand why you would want to know if your breeding them. She will not be bred. Too many other horses that need homes.


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

Btw, I did know what a bay was. I know the basics, but when you start getting into smooty bucksin, dun, cremello, this color will be here, but sometimes here....I get really confused, lol....But thanks for the compliment! My neighbor had a horse for only a short time (a quarter with a bald face) and I fell in love. Of course I couldnt buy him he was priced at $10000! So I looked all summer until I found her! Wasnt sure about buying a 4month old when I had no horse experience, but it gave us time to learn about each other and for me to get comfortable with a horse. And starting a horse under saddle really opens your eyes to how they learn, see, and feel things! The saying green plus green equals black and blue is soooo true! But I made a commitment to her and Im learning probably more than her!


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## HorseLovinLady (Jul 18, 2011)

Some colors confuse me too, but I know a good bit about cremello's. I have a cremello paint mare named Bonnie.


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

Well, I have bay that may be a buckskin, lol...I have ti send for a creme test, and this paint mare, which I obviously dont get all this categorizing stuff, haha...So do I call her a bay paint?


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Is she registered APHA? If not I would call her a bay pinto. If she is, then yes, I would call her a bay paint.

As for her pattern, she is obviously tobiano with some combination of "overo" (splash, frame, etc.) patterns going on. Tovero in and of itself is not a pattern but a combination of patterns.


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

I'd call her a bay tovero. Pretty, not a med. hat because of the color on the side of her face. Poco1220 posted a good example of a med. hat, the head is all that matters, the body can be any color/pattern.


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

LOL, this stuff is confusing, hehe... No I had her mother/fathers info to register her, but never did, and I lost the papers, and the originals were lost in a fire. But o, well. I only plan to ride her in fairs, parades, and small competitions. That will be later on down the road tho, I just got her started under saddle this year. I love knowing what colors the ACTUALLY are, but this has all made me realize how much about horse colors I dont understand, haha.... A bay should be a bay, but they range in color soooo much! And paints have all these catagories that are head spining, hehe... then its just all making my head hurt! I dont know how some of you do it!:lol:


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Colors are confusing, but starting your own horse is pretty fun wheatermay even though its a long time investment. I've gotten all my horses as babies and I think that is the best way because you know their history and you can train the the way you want. I enjoy training my own horses. Right now I spend my free time working with jet. I'm currently lead breaking and desensitizing him its pretty fun play with the lil guy.


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

I really wanted to start her when she turned 2, but I was pregnant with my own little one and couldnt. Now I have two 3yr old horses, and a 1yr old boy, so I only have time to start one horse! I feel bad, but its for the better that I send Buck away this fall to get broke by someone else. I really wish I could do it myslef tho. But I cant let him get too old before he's started! When My son turns 13, Buck will be his horse ...Buck will be 16 and well broken and experienced!


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## Brighteyes (Mar 8, 2009)

So.... What is a tri color then, exactly?


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

Brighteyes said:


> So.... What is a tri color then, exactly?


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## Cowgirl Up (Aug 24, 2011)

Wheatermay said:


> You all seem to have fun doing this, lol...:lol: so here is my paint mare, Suki. She's three yrs old. What pattern paint? And would she be considered a medicine hat? I've also heard of a war bonnet, but dont really understand the difference between the medicine hat and war bonnet. The red coloring on her head does attach to the one side of her face, but NOT attach to the war sheild on her chest. Her mane covers that detail. And If u cant see in the pics, she has black in her tail and forelocks, and some black spotting on her legs and above her hooves. Is she tri-colored, b/c I have read a few threads on here saying there arent very many true tri colors... I dont get why... lol...


She's a Bay Paint. A tri-colored paint has 3 colors on their body. Suki has Bay and White on her body, the black is in her mane so that doesn't count as the 3rd color. 

She's not a medicine hat as it's conected to another spot on her body. Medicine hat would just be a spot that covers the ears. It's not connected to anything else. 

She's a Tovero. That's the cross between Tobiano and Overo spots. How to tell the difference is Tobiano spots are more rounded. Overo are more jagged spots. 

As for someone saying she's Sabino, I don't see it. I think it's just dried on mud on her butt flung onto there by her tail.


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

Sabino patterning is visually recognized by roaning at the edges of white markings, belly spots, irregular face markings, especially white extending past the eyes or onto the chin, white above the knees or hocks, and "splash" or "lacy" marks anywhere on the body, but particularly on the belly. Some sabinos have patches of roan patterning on part of the body, especially the barrel and flanks. Some sabinos may have a dark foot or two, but most have four white feet. Both blue and brown eyes are seen. At one end of the sabino spectrum, the SB1 gene, when homozygous, can produce a horse that is almost completely white with pink or only partially pigmented skin. Some forms of sabino genetics are also thought to be the most common reason for solid-colored horses with "chrome," a term which can refer to horses with bold white markings on the face and high white leg markings. The most generous definition of sabino can include horses with as little white as a chin or lower lip spot.


Not being smart or anything, I just looked it up on wikipedia, lol... she has roaning on her barrel and flanks, 4white feet, bold white face, high white leg markings...maybe that?


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

U still cant really tell too much in these pics of the roaning. I dont really have one that does.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

I still say sabino, due to the roaning on her hips. As for the high white on her legs, that is cause by tobiano in this case most probably. As for her face white, I still say frame, as sabino would try to avoid the eys a lot more than it has.


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## Cowgirl Up (Aug 24, 2011)

To me personally, I just think it's just roaning but I could be wrong. It could be real light Sabino markings. I haven't seen a horse that has that light of Sabino markings.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

The roaning has to be coming from somewhere. It's not the haloing that tobiano causes, so my next guess would be sabino. If the horse showed other appy traits, I would wonder if there was a bit of varnish roan going on, but she doesn't.


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## Cowgirl Up (Aug 24, 2011)

Eh, well now that I look closer she does have a lot of white on her face and a white lip which is a trait of Sabinos. Legs, due have a lot of white, but that could be just natural of her being a Paint.

Even if it was Sabino it's minimal which can occur as minimal roaning.


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

Geez u guys r good at this, lol...u lost me back there somewhere, hehe! I actually like the look of the bay paints, like her, than a true tri color. Altho there was one lady who posted a beautiful stallion on one thread that may or may not be tri paint. (The thread is "Do tr-icolored paints really exist?" or something along that line). 

She has traits, it seems from both sides of the fence. Her father had the white ticking too. And she seems to get more white hair through her hips and barrels the older she gets. No would the fact that he was tabiano affect her pattern type? or classification of?

Here he is:


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

So I found this on Wikipedia:

Sabino vs. roan
Main article: Sabino horse
Roaning is also associated with some of the sabino white spotting patterns.[4] There are many patterns in many breeds called "sabino," and these patterns usually feature irregular, rough-edged patches of white that originate from the lower legs, face, and ventral midline.[16] The borders of these white patches can be heavily roaned, and some sabinos can be mistaken for roans.[4] The roaning of sabinos will originate in a white patch, and the roaning is uneven.[4]




So my question is is she a bay sabino? Or a bay roan paint? Or is there no such thing as that b/c there are horses labeled to sell as "bay roan paint". My horse buddy friend jokingly said she's a bay roan paint, but I was wondering if that actually existed...:lol:

Anyway I attached pics of her "roaning"


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Not a classic roan. Definitely not.

As for her white ticking, I still think sabino is the culprit.


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

Its uneven like the sabino description.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

For it to be classic roan, you would expect it to be all over her body except head and legs (and in this case, white patches). For rabicano, I would expect it to be heavier over her barrel rather than her hips, although rabicano is not one of my strong points. 

I guess we both agree that sabino is the likely suspect. I love genetics lol.


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

Chiillaa! Glad u came back to finish the puzzle with me! LOL, Im gonna look up Rabicano online here and I'll be right back, hehe... I love learning the colors but genes have always confused me, lol!


Ok, no, I'd say it more fits the description of sabino! And her other markings too! Thanks so much guys! Our other paints are so easy to figure out, lol they are tobiano! We have both skew and pie balds. (Family horses, not mine.)


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## candandy49 (Jan 16, 2011)

I think, lol :lol: by the way, you know more than your letting on about the Paint horse markings, descriptions. The reason I know is that in your last reply you mentioned "piebalds and skewbalds". A Piebald is any horse with only black and white markings. A Skewbald is a horse with spots of any color other than black. Your horse's sire is a piebald. He is also a true Tovero. You horse is a Tobiano.

As for Medicine Hat description the horse has only the spot on the top around the head, ears and a shield chest spot with no other spots. The Native American Indians considered these horses to be sacred and highly prized.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Tovero is a catch all term for tobiano + any overo type pattern (slash, frame, etc.). It is, in and of itself, not a pattern.


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

Tovero? Thats what Ive been calling her, lol... I thought sabino was the catch all there, lol... And I did know of piebald and skewbald, but its only b/c its one of the basic things I learned when reading about paints. And honestly, I usually get the two mixed up!

So even tho she matches a sabino description very well, its only a pattern descriptions, and she would be a tovero with sabino pattern? Or is the sabino theory dropped now? See I dont know too much, lol...


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Sabino is a catch all term fro unexplained white patterns. Tovero is a catch all term for anything that is tobiano + an "overo" pattern of some sort. Overo is a catch all term for a few patterns as well.


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

See, thats why I get confused, lol....


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

I dont think I can register her now. Never have done it before, but her sire and dam's papers were lost in not one but two fires! Lucky huh! I lost the copies the gave me when I bought her, and they lost the originals when their house caught on fire. I lost mine when I left them at mt mom's and THAT house caught on fire.


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