# "Proper" Way to Ride in a Western Saddle



## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

I think the best way everyone could help you is pictures of videos of you. That way you're not overloaded with information.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)




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## DraftDreamer (Apr 15, 2013)

I will see if I can get one this weekend.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

It's really too vague to answer. I guess one thing that comes to mind is that sitting on a horse should be closer to the position you have while standing very balanced, as opposed to the position you'd have sitting on a chair at the dining room table. You want to be balanced on the horse's back so that if your horse magically disappear from out from under you, you'd fall to earth and land on your feet, so well balanced you wouldn't fall backward onto your tush.

there's a good 'tip" for ya!


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Gotta disagree with tinyliny on this one. Western riding does not have any requirement to keep your heels under your hip, or even under your center of gravity. Nor is it hard on the horse, IF the saddle is designed right (like many western saddles are) and you move with the horse.









_Jack Woffard of the Shoe Bar outfit flanking the trail herd. Shoe Bar Ranch, Texas_, 1912​ 
http://www.cartermuseum.org/collections/smith/collection.php?asn=LC-S59-034&mcat=3&scat=41

As a general rule, I agree with Littauer that "...there are only two criteria of your position; a) are you in fluid balance and rhythm with your horse or not? b) does your seat enable you to control your horse efficiently?"

Emphasis on *fluid* *balance* and *rhythm*.

That said, I'm a nobody - don't show, don't compete, and no one takes lessons from me. However, I suspect I'm one of the few on the forum who have tried riding with an approach similar (although not as extreme) as the guy in the picture above. It works fine, as far as I can tell from my horse's reaction.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

Why is it that so many think you need lessons to ride a horse?


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

I think so that if you have a bad habit instinctively, it can be fixed before you have a bigger problem to fix, if that makes sense.
I'm totally okay with people doing "backyard riding" but lessons every once in a while are good.
I haven't taken lessons in four years
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

just ride, ride the trot and canter, if it feels wrong it probably is, the more you do it, the more natural and balanced you feel. play with stirrup length and balance, eventually you'll get in a groove, ride with one hand straight up, then the other , then both, Long as you are keeping the saddle between you and the horse, and the horse between you and the ground it aint all bad. 
I have also had my horse magically disappear out from under me on numerous occasions. Dont think I have ever landed on my feet yet. But I am like BSMS, I'm just a dude, I learned to ride watching Yosemite Sam and Bugs Bunny, pretty much only know YAH MULE and WHooooooooo mule. then hang on as appropriate. 
There is no better trainer than a wet saddle pad.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Now why would somebody make a bunch of mistakes all over again and learn the hard way if qualified instruction is available? 
I don't see a Buck Brannaman, for example, sit like the cowboy pictured above, and even Bill Dorrance said he's got most help with his seat and subsequently his way of riding and training from a young lady who rode dressage.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

You don't need lessons to ride a horse but if you want to improve your riding and ride to the best of your ability and get the most out of your horse, hands on instruction from someone who knows how to teach you is the way to go. I live by these words "We can get very good at doing the wrong thing". My instructor has a male student in his 60's that was a former working cowboy & bronc rider, he says he wishes he had taken formal instruction many years ago as it would've made his life more enjoyable on horseback.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Now why would somebody make a bunch of mistakes all over again and learn the hard way if qualified instruction is available...


Define qualified instruction. Most of those who claim your heels need to be under your hip have never tried riding any other way. They look at a static picture, assume things that are not true, and then proudly reject what they have no experience with or understanding of.

I've had very experienced horse owners/riders 'teach' me that Appys have terrible hooves, because light colored hooves are weak. I've had them 'teach' me that my toes need to point straight ahead. I've been 'taught' that Arabian mares are psychotic monsters, and I need to sell mine to anyone stupid enough to buy her.

Most analysis I've seen of riding positions is simplistic to an embarrassing extreme. The page below comes from a well respected, well reviewed book I own and have read, arguing that a forward seat is unbalanced. :shock:








​ 
That analysis is so full of horse poop, it could fertilize a dozen orchards. From an engineering viewpoint, or a common sense viewpoint, it is pathetic.

OTOH, if you pay attention to your body and your horse, you may find out a lot of things. Things that actually work when applied.

Buck Brannaman on a horse:








​ 







​ 
The leg position is pretty close to what seems to get a good response from Mia while trail riding at a relaxed pace - heel in front of belt buckle. If I want her to go fast, then bringing my heel back some and leaning forward gives a position more like this guy's:








​ 
I'm not opposed to someone taking lessons. But finding someone who knows what they are doing and saying is pretty tough. Folks are free to blow off anything I write here, and that is OK. No one is paying for my advice. But if you do take lessons - and I have - just be aware that a lot of what is taught is taught as regurgitation, rather than thoughtful advice based on you, your horse, and your goals.

IMHO, one of the biggest sins in riding is worrying about 'position' instead of 'balance'. I've got several shelves of books that talk about position. And maybe that is because it is really tough to write about balance...

For balance, you have to mount up, and experiment and learn over time.


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

Subbing...


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Bsms, get on an English saddle and ride out in the desert, 5 mile lap, in a forward sear ONLY. No cheatin .....you'll understand the balance-unbalance " debate". If brain still doesn't get it, have it ask thigh muscles. 
Then try the forward seat without stirrups( which a good instructor will have you do), 10, even 5 laps in the roundpen. Trot and canter. Then sit down, do the same seated. 

As for heels slightly in front of beltbuckle....works only with slim folks;-)

Btw, Brannaman has a very natural balanced seat in a western saddle. 

Oh, and saddles can have a lot to do with how good or bad a seat one has.


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## Beling (Nov 3, 2009)

The way I see it, there's 2 parts to riding: you and the horse.

You don't need lessons to learn to stay on a horse. But most instruction, these days anyway, also take into consideration the comfort of the horse, and his way of going, for strength as well as soundness. As de Kunffy said, there's two kinds of work: the field worker wears himself out, the gymnist builds himself up.

The cowboy isn't in a terribly backwards position. He's quite tall in the saddle, the weight is only a little in back of the movement (hard to say in a still), the horse looks like he's ambling along, somewhat on his forehand in a natural manner. If he were to suddenly stop, or spin, or shy, I believe that rider is in a good position to move with it.

Nevertheless, if his legs were a little more under him, I believe his horse might be more comfortable over his long work day.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Now why would somebody make a bunch of mistakes all over again and learn the hard way if qualified instruction is available?


First, there's the right way, the wrong way, the army way, and my way....yada yada yada

Well, lets count the ways........

They don't have the money.

They don't have the time.

They have the money but don't want to spend it on riding lessons.

They have the time but don't want to spend it on lessons.

Instructors are in the business to make money. You'll never be good enough and always require more lessons.

They're happy with the way they ride and know taking lessons makes things real serious stealing the joy from riding.

They don't like the instructor.

They don't like the instructors wife, husband, girl friend, boy friend, significant other, etc.

They don't like the facility.

Okay guys and gals.....help me out here.....


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

^^
There are NO instructors within a reasonable trailering distance.

Also, there really is no PROPER way to ride at all. There are desireables for every discipline. But, what works for you and what works for what you are doing should be good enough.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Generally speaking, unless you are planning to compete in classes where your position will be judged, like western horsemanship, then the most proper position is where you are most balanced and comfortable and you the ability to remain light and fluid in your seat...that is best for both you _and_ the horse.

However, many self-taught folks don't know they are doing something to compromise their seat/ability unless they have someone to tell them "you know, you'd have a better seat if you did <this> or if you stopped doing <that>".

Take me for example. For most of my childhood, I rode with the majority of my weight on my feet and never knew that it was wrong until my Dad pointed it out to me one day when I ate dirt after falling from a fractious colt. He just waited for me to dust myself off and get back on, then said "you know, if you'd keep your weight on your butt like you should instead of your feet, I believe you could have rode that out". Now, I've spent the better part of the last 15 years trying to break that habit and I've noticed a marked difference in my fluidity and ability between the 2 ways of riding. I'm more able to move with the horse and my seat is more independent and more fluid when I've got my weight in my seat instead of on my feet.

If you don't have access to proper instruction, then watch as many videos as you can of good riders (reiners, cutters, trainers, etc) and try to emulate them. Watch where they keep their feet, what they do with their legs, where their hands are at, what they do with their body, etc.

Another thing you have to consider is your saddle. Some saddles, especially if they don't fit you correctly, will _force_ you into a poor position. Many western saddles encourage a horrible chair seat because their fenders are hung too far forward from the balanced center of the seat. Trying to keep anything resembling a balanced position in a saddle like that is like trying to dig your way out of quicksand.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I personally don't give a rat's hind end about how a person sits on a horse, or another thinks he's the best thing since sliced bread and lessons are for wimps....as long as it doesn't affect the horse negatively. 
If a certain style of riding requires a certain way of sitting it usually makes sense. For that style/discipline. So why not taking advantage of knowledge instead of pre- inventing the wheel?


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

As far as I'm concerned, a balanced position IS in a proper position. Sure I can "balance" on a horse in the literal sense with my feet sticking out like an old cowboy...But I ride a reiner, if I did that, she'd had her butt in the ground sliding and I'd wonder why I can't get her to move.

Keeping your leg under you is important. It allows your weight to be where you need to be. Your weight when riding needs to be distributed between your two seat bones and just a tiny bit of your crotch. Even, elbows tucked in nicely and not flailing about, back straight yet flexible (This and your heels absorb the impact), shoulders back and squared nicely, head and neck straight while looking where you want to go without tilting one way or the other.

Sure it's all fine and dandy to get on and just go on a horse, I will do that sometimes and I know the way to ride performance horses ad show horses. If all you wanna do is go out and have fun that's fine, but if you want to show you better have a good balanced position and someone to tell you where to be. I've seen a lot of old cowboys be able to stay on a horse, doesn't mean they'd win a western horsemanship class. 

Exhibit A






This girl has a wonderful equitation position. She rides very balanced and loose yet tight (If you know what I mean), and has a very good seat on that horse. 

Of course so does this girl, but that's a lot different than what you'd see in a pattern class. She does ride that horse very well, as does the rider above, but they both ride very different. Quiet riding isn't always effective, and neither is very aggressive riding. It really is relevant to what kind of western riding you want to do.






You can tell this girl is a good hand because watch her lose her stirrups. It takes a LOT of ability to stay on a horse hauling that fast, whether you have a horn to hold onto or not. Really good pole horses like that are not easy to ride. You can see where she was saying she almost fell off, watch how she picks herself back up instantly and it's still a smokin' run. That's another definition of someone who rides well. Someone who can pick themselves up and not be frazzled when something happens.

If you're leaning too far forward or too far back, your horse will either pull you right over or you'll go off the back door at some point. Your seat effects your horses movement. It effects whether they go fast, slow, collected, strung out, sideways, backwards, whether they dive in or bow out, stay balanced, or not. Sure you train some stuff in, but I don't care how much you try if you aren't sitting right on a horse you aren't ever going to achieve the full potential of collection or perfect balance on your horse. You'll never get the weight on the hind end if you are constantly leaning forward. You won't get a fluid spin if you're leaning and causing them to fall to one side. You'll never get a tight turn on the barrel pattern if you don't sit back. At the same time, you won't ever reach full speed if you're sitting back with your feet kicked forward trying to get to the timers. 

And obviously you'll never achieve anything if you're too busy being unbalanced and hanging off one side of the horse because you don't know how to sit on your butt up there.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Bsms, get on an English saddle and ride out in the desert, 5 mile lap, in a forward sear ONLY. No cheatin .....you'll understand the balance-unbalance " debate"...


Actually, I have often used a *******ized forward seat, with longer stirrups since I don't need to jump anything. My Aussie-style saddle rides almost identically to my Bates Caprilli AP saddle. Seated, with eyes closed, not moving, they feel almost identical. In motion, the Bates with CAIR bounces a bit more...:-x

There is nothing unbalanced about it. Maintaining the position requires more work, but it has greater balance front to back, which is a part of why jumpers use it. I have used it because Mia used to sometimes bolt forward, or suddenly brake without warning. Particularly on the leaps forward, a forward seat is easier to maintain than a vertical seat. A wider base, measured front to back, means greater leeway for error.

There were many problems with the analysis the author gave. Lowering the center of gravity is not bad. A wider base is not bad. There is no pendulum effect. There is a reason tightrope walkers carry a long pole - it helps them balance:










There is a lot of riding analysis done based on where your pelvic bones is, for example, while ignoring things like thighs and how your muscles drape around the horse. A typical analysis of a rider with his feet forward usually assumes the rider is arcing around the stirrups, bouncing up and then slamming down into the horse's back. It doesn't work that way, and anyone who tried riding like that for a while can say why - a combination of where your center of gravity is, plus the effect of your thighs and the flexibility in your hips. But someone would have to TRY it to know.

The motion is more like this:










The center of gravity moves forward with your feet, your thighs take an active part, and you open and close the angle of your body to move with the horse - kind of like Craig Cameron does in the video.

I am certainly not saying anyone has to ride like that. If you are in a jump saddle, your horse won't be very happy. I know, because I've tried it and Mia got grumpy. In a western saddle, or my Aussie-style saddle, she acts relaxed and happy. But if I want her to go fast, I need to adjust my balance to a forward seat.

I use it as an example of how many instructors and books will say things they know nothing about. If you can find a good instructor, great! I'm all in favor of learning different styles and approaches, and adapting what you learn to your particular situation. But if someone has done a lot of riding, and it is working for them and their horse, then they need some caution.


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

It all depends on the person. Here are two pictures of me and my dad on the same horse and in the same saddle:





Also, here he is breaking a filly and tuning a doorknob of a gelding:





And then there's me:




There is a lot of obvious differences in how we ride, and my dad was the guy who taught me enough so I could take the reins and learn on my own.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Hmmmmm a lot of people forget the well being of the horse. Proper seat and balance is not just to make an illusion of a 'pretty picture' it actually does because the horse moves out properly and is happy in its job.


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

All these pictures must be taken with a grain of salt. It is a moment in time and in that very moment no one knows what the rider was trying to accomplish, so who can say exactly "why" he is in a certain position. He might be bumping a shoulder that is dropping out, for all we know. This goes back to controlling body parts. If you don't "ride that way", you won't be able to relate to pictures of others that do ride that way. 

Those pics of Buck that someone posted show him in 2 different positions. The first one, he is sitting rolled back on his pockets, effectively telling the horse to chill out and wait for a change. The 2nd he is up on his seat bones sending signals to the horse. 

An extreme chair seat cannot be conducive to effective riding or communication. The position is too limiting to give effective, varied leg cues. 

I agree with everyone who says balance is the key.


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

If I sat like this............










I would be bouncing all over the place when sitting a trot. That's just me.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

IMHO, as a rule of thumb, men have tighter hips than women. That is why I've known a number of women who could do the splits, and never met a man who could (although they exist).

If you have tight hips, then feet forward helps your legs relax. It keeps your butt deeper in the saddle, because the tension of your thighs doesn't push you up and out of the saddle. So lets see - relaxed leg draped, center of gravity slightly forward, deeper in the saddle but less pressure on your butt - how are those bad things?

The shoulder - hip - heel thing was virtually unknown prior to 1960. I'd guess no more that 5% of photos that I've seen from prior to 1950 involve heels under hip. And back then, lots of guys rode horses. Now, it is probably about 85-90% female for recreational riders. And that transition happened around the time folks started saying heels under hip was important. Coincidence? 

Mia and I:


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

You look like you are in a totally acceptable position, bsms, to communicate with your horse and stay on in a hard shy.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

I have to say that my "cowboy" position differs from my "arena" position.
I am really working hard to improve my position in the arena to help my horse but in my opinion it is really hard to maintain during long outside hours, perhaps I am a weenie.

Someone pointed out a picture only shows a moment in time and it is hard to determine much from just that, a moment in time. Just to show, I posted a progression of pictures of me roping a calf and this all probably took place within less than a minute. You can see how my leg and upper body position change to adapt to what I am doing(correct or not). If I was just was loping circles there wouldn't need to be that much change in position. All those these pictures I am posting are not ideal, however I am willing to sacrifice my pride for the sake of the discussion...LOL!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Muppetgirl said:


> Hmmmmm a lot of people forget the well being of the horse. Proper seat and balance is not just to make an illusion of a 'pretty picture' it actually does because the horse moves out properly and is happy in its job.


^^^ that!
I used to know a guy with a beautiful, well trained Welsh cob gelding who asked me why his horse would literally run out from under him. He sat, leaning on the cantle, legs braced forward. I made him get out of the stirrups and point toes down, hard. All of the sudden horse slowed down and jogged and loped beautifully. He took his stirrups back and horse went bezerk. A true aha moment. 
He told me later on he felt very insecure at first without his " crutches", but re-learned the proper seat and was fine. 
Equally bad is the girl pressed into a " proper" dressage seat, stiff, insecure, but " pretty". 

Saddles definitely contribute to a seat. I, for example, cannot ride in a saddle with build up and forward stirrups. I need a deep straight seat, high cantle and stirrups under me. I started out riding dressage, maybe that's why.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

COWCHICK77 said:


> I have to say that my "cowboy" position differs from my "arena" position.
> I am really working hard to improve my position in the arena to help my horse but in my opinion it is really hard to maintain during long outside hours, perhaps I am a weenie.
> 
> Someone pointed out a picture only shows a moment in time and it is hard to determine much from just that, a moment in time. Just to show, I posted a progression of pictures of me roping a calf and this all probably took place within less than a minute. You can see how my leg and upper body position change to adapt to what I am doing(correct or not). If I was just was loping circles there wouldn't need to be that much change in position. All those these pictures I am posting are not ideal, however I am willing to sacrifice my pride for the sake of the discussion...LOL!


Well of course you change position. You balance three bodies, sort off. 
Looking good;-)


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

"doesn't mean they'd win a western horsemanship class."

from what I have seen of western horsemanship shows Id take that as a compliment. People get so hung up on proper,, proper says who ? OMG my elbow is in the wrong place and my left pinky is sticking slightly southeast. The worlds gonna end !,, pulease, nothing wrong with some tips here and there, but take em and use em as they fit you and what you are doing, disregard the rest. Ive seen the way people talk about riding on this page, usually using the word trainer in every other sentence, like they couldnt possibly imagine riding without being supervised, most of whom have never done anything but ride in a circle in an arena, I am sure someone would call that proper. Seems they get so hung up on things that just dont matter.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

deserthorsewoman said:


> ^^^ that!
> I used to know a guy with a beautiful, well trained Welsh cob gelding who asked me why his horse would literally run out from under him. He sat, leaning on the cantle, legs braced forward. I made him get out of the stirrups and point toes down, hard. All of the sudden horse slowed down and jogged and loped beautifully. He took his stirrups back and horse went bezerk. A true aha moment.
> He told me later on he felt very insecure at first without his " crutches", but re-learned the proper seat and was fine.
> Equally bad is the girl pressed into a " proper" dressage seat, stiff, insecure, but " pretty".
> ...


I agree.

If I look at pictures of me riding as a teenager, that would of been me braced on the cantle and feet shoved forward with my horse scooting out to the front. And I still resort to it when I get nervous. It's one that I have been battling since. That is why I envy those with a english or a background that included equitation, a hard habit to break! Being as I have recently took my first lesson with a dressage trainer I _felt_ the difference that body position can make, it was awesome(even though I was in pain for days afterwards..LOL) And I agree the saddle can make the difference too, I have one that does shove my feet more forward and it is handy for long days and colts and my newest saddle is better for keeping my leg under me.


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

nvr2many said:


> If I sat like this............
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And you see, I have no issue sitting a trot. Its just how I balance. Heres an acutal shot of me sitting the trot (however, I much prefer posting)


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Joe4d said:


> "doesn't mean they'd win a western horsemanship class."
> 
> from what I have seen of western horsemanship shows Id take that as a compliment. People get so hung up on proper,, proper says who ? OMG my elbow is in the wrong place and my left pinky is sticking slightly southeast. The worlds gonna end !,, pulease, nothing wrong with some tips here and there, but take em and use em as they fit you and what you are doing, disregard the rest. Ive seen the way people talk about riding on this page, usually using the word trainer in every other sentence, like they couldnt possibly imagine riding without being supervised, most of whom have never done anything but ride in a circle in an arena, I am sure someone would call that proper. Seems they get so hung up on things that just dont matter.



If you watched that video you would be able to see how effectively that girl is riding. She gets an excellent, well tuned ride with virtually invisible cues, balance in her body, AND beautiful equitation position. There's a reason equitation exists. It shows the ideal position.

Of course, as you would have read in my first post if you read it all the way, effective isn't always pretty, and good position is relative to the activity. I sure as hell am not going to keep my proper position for my equitation class, whether it be western horsemanship or hunt seat, for something like a reining class or cow work that requires a little more aggressive riding, and surely not going to keep it for riding a barrel pattern.

I'm serious, I wanna talk about this.

Me before western horsemanship (Just warmup, but you get the idea)










In a reining class










Okay, okay, for giggles so you can all laugh at me, here's me showing dressage too.










And finally, running at a gymkhana.











Big difference in each one huh?

However, one thing is the same. I developed a good seat for riding colts from learning from the start how to have equitation. I took that and learned to adapt it to every situation. I learned how to make adjustments to each event from there, but I find that everything I knew came from my equitation position I already knew. You can really see this in my leg. It's in the same position in each shot. From which class I wonder? Western Horsemanship.

In an ideal world, everyone can ride with beautiful equitation on a well trained horse. However, it takes a LOT of work to get those equitation horses smooth and responsive to small cues, not making any big movements that might jar the rider, etc. Selena is NOT a good equitation horse because she is uncomfortable and is certainly not a slow western pleasure horse, however we have worked hard to get smooth transitions and invisible cue so I can fake it til I make it.

Also, it is virtually impossible to learn years and years of knowledge without a trainer. That's just the fact. Joe, you ride LD don't you? You probably don't need to be going to lessons twice a week for that. However, if you want to show in a reining pattern, run barrels, or jump over fences, you are going to need one to stay safe. End of story. Same with dressage. You simply will not figure out how to ride to the highest level you can without someone telling you to get your butt in the saddle and teaching you about how the horse's body moves, how each part of the body effects the rest, how you can achieve complete manipulation of the body through various cues and how to use all your aids at the same time to create a beautiful picture.

Conditioning for endurance or trail riding probably doesn't consist of counter arc circles, counter canter, flying lead changes, lots of collection and extension, piaffe, pirouette, spins, slide stops, tight turns with the horse PROPERLY (There's that word again) using their body. There's a lot more that goes into a western horsemanship jog than you realize, and a trainer is going to teach you all these things. They are more experienced than you.

If no one rode with a trainer, we'd probably never develop new methods, we'd probably still be getting on colts like the indians - stake 'em out and starve 'em for a few days and then bring em to the water and get on em in there so they're too tired and sick to buck. Or, alternatively, being the big bad cowboy who just got on a fresh colt and bucked it out, praying they didn't break their neck that day. 

Quite a difference as to how we start colts now, huh? Wonder how we came up with that? It surely wasn't by no one helping others. Surely wasn't because no trainer ever helped any student.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I think Cowchick's pictures show a very nicely aligned and balance, working seat. I would be thrilled to look so well balanced and so "useful".

and this:










Is a beautifully lined up seat, looks effortless and the horse goes easily under this rider.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

my pennys worth... wanna learn how to balance on a horse .. get rid of the saddle get on bareback, walk trot canter stop turn. when you can sit yor horse without clamping on with your knees and legs.. you have learned how to balance and sit your horse.  I learned how to ride bareback and would even jump haybales and such.. sigh... wish I could do that now !! I still wanna know why the call it golden years.. cause all it is a pain .. the brain says yes and the bod says hee no...


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

I hadn't taken any lessons until recently. Owning two green horses, who have only had me ride them, I wanted to be sure I wasn't giving mixed signals with my cues.

At first, it was VERY strange and just waaaaaaaaay too much information and too complicated. I questioned if it was because I was taking lessons from an 'english' instructor when I ride 'western'.

I have now learned some valuable points, which no longer seem so foreign. I used to sit in the very exaggerated-looking recliner chair position....even bareback. I figured I was sitting on 'my pockets'. Plus I was scared that if I sat more up and forward that if my horse spooked, I would fall.

I can't believe how much better I ride now in a more proper position. I don't want to be perfect, I just want to be more correct for my horses. Even now, but less so than before, I feel like my feet are underneath me...but they are still forward. But I am way better than before. I found my seat bones and center. I feel more in control and that I can take on anything....well, almost...lol.

I think lessons were excellent for me to learn about helping my horse move. It took a little while though and a lot of being skeptical, but I am so much better now.


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

QHriderKE said:


> And you see, I have no issue sitting a trot. Its just how I balance. Heres an acutal shot of me sitting the trot (however, I much prefer posting)



Yes, thank you. I was going to ask if you sat the trot or posted. I seem to sit a trot better when I loosen my hips and sit heavier in my saddle. Maybe I need to video myself and see how I look, lol. I do not stick my feet way out in front of me or stand in my stirrups I just do not think I am that far forward. Hum, something to check out..... To me you look different in this one than the other. See how a pic can fool us............. a moment in time. LOL.


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

Well, I am self taught so my sitting trot probably isnt proper. 
In the other photo on the back horse, it was that fillys fifth ride, so I was putting more weight on my tushy incase there was an explosion! On the dun horse above, im rolled a bit more forward in the saddle and I have a bit more weight in my leg than seat, because if I sit all the way down, it translates to the horse as slow down or stop. My slightly more forward position and sitting the trot is allowing the horse to round up and push with her big hiney. Thats how I ride greenies that need extra help from me to do stuff.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

When I want Mia to relax on a trail, my feet go forward. I'm not bracing in the stirrups, just relaxing and letting my hips move with her back. If I want her to go fast, I let my lower leg hang down vertical from the knee, lean forward and transfer most of my weight to my thighs. With my rump barely touching the saddle, she understands it as "Go faster". If I want her to make a tight turn, I settle deep, bring my heel under my hip and get out of the way of her shoulders. She's awkward enough without me asking her for a sharp turn with my legs forward! On average, my heels are further back than I like because that is how my saddle is built, and I see no value in fighting with my saddle.

One of the things that drew me to western riding was that most people I ran in to were happy to ride their horses, and happy to let you ride yours without any lectures. I think most do what I do now - look to see if your horse is relaxed and moving cheerfully forward. If so, then how you ride is your business.

The B&W photo I posted earlier is THE western style of riding from around the 1860s thru the 1950s or 60s. If you ever watch an old western, ignore the stars sometimes and watch the wranglers riding in the background, or some of the character parts. There were a number of bit players who grew up on ranches in the 20s, 30, and 40s who can be seen riding. They are usually easy to spot, because they are moving relaxed on a relaxed horse, even when going quickly off trail.

You can ride like that old cowboy photo and not sore your horse or even annoy your horse. You can also ride in a 'dressage' position in such a way as to make your horse hate you. Or not. My horses got a lot happier when I realized (thanks, Littauer) that riding wasn't about position, but about balance and moving with your horse for whatever it is you need at that moment. Some positions work better for some purposes, so adapt what you are doing in the saddle for what you want your horse to do under the saddle.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

bsms said:


> When I want Mia to relax on a trail, my feet go forward. I'm not bracing in the stirrups, just relaxing and letting my hips move with her back. If I want her to go fast, I let my lower leg hang down vertical from the knee, lean forward and transfer most of my weight to my thighs. With my rump barely touching the saddle, she understands it as "Go faster". If I want her to make a tight turn, I settle deep, bring my heel under my hip and get out of the way of her shoulders. She's awkward enough without me asking her for a sharp turn with my legs forward! On average, my heels are further back than I like because that is how my saddle is built, and I see no value in fighting with my saddle.
> 
> One of the things that drew me to western riding was that most people I ran in to were happy to ride their horses, and happy to let you ride yours without any lectures. I think most do what I do now - look to see if your horse is relaxed and moving cheerfully forward. If so, then how you ride is your business.
> 
> ...


So good to hear that I don't have to worry about perfection and there can be flexibility. I was very worried that if I couldn't ride perect, that I couldn't ride my horses at all. I'm an older rider, who didn't ride when I was younger and overweight too. I also have green/becoming less green horses who have never had anyone else ride them. My body may never line up perfectly no matter what I do. However, I am more confident by having some of those points pointed out to me because I have learned how to feel my horse better and really understand the whole mechanics stuff. It's still a little wierd because I think I'm sitting perfectly straight upright....but I am still riding with my legs in a slight chair position. However, I am ok with it because I am balanced and deep in my seat and my horse is moving nicely.


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## DraftDreamer (Apr 15, 2013)

I will have to get a video this weekend and see what y'all think.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

I wanna come ride with you BSMS, I'll bring some tarantula and we can argue about hippies or something.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

Oldhorselady said:


> So good to hear that I don't have to worry about perfection and there can be flexibility. I was very worried that if I couldn't ride perect, that I couldn't ride my horses at all. I'm an older rider, who didn't ride when I was younger and overweight too. I also have green/becoming less green horses who have never had anyone else ride them. My body may never line up perfectly no matter what I do. However, I am more confident by having some of those points pointed out to me because I have learned how to feel my horse better and really understand the whole mechanics stuff. It's still a little wierd because I think I'm sitting perfectly straight upright....but I am still riding with my legs in a slight chair position. However, I am ok with it because I am balanced and deep in my seat and my horse is moving nicely.


We, (my wife and I) ride most weekends simply for the joy it brings. 

What's important to us is the joy of the ride and being on the trail together. So, we know we're doing it wrong, but we don't care. Ignorance is bliss. We do it for the simplicity of it and could care less about a flying lead change.

We got horse snobbed a few weeks ago on the trail. My wife asked this lady and her husband to ride with us.....I already knew they really didn't want to ride with us, and told my wife that. The other lady that we ride with every weekend said "oh no...I don't know which horse to bring" she has four from a peanut roller to a quick racking horse. She and I both knew what was going to happen...and it did....

They told us to meet them at a certain location and then they showed up about 45 minutes late.....with a certain local horse trainer.....rode with us for less than half a mile...told us our horses were riding us.....offered to give us lessons.....

The funny thing is, they can't ride with anyone anymore because who ever they're riding with has a horse that makes there's act up. 

My reply was something to the effect of "we rode 20 weekends last year and almost 500 miles, how many did you ride?

We won't ask them to ride with us again....We enjoy our horses, to bad they can't enjoy theirs. I don't intend to take my trail riding and turn it into something that's going to take the fun out of it.

It's not rocket surgery.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

thats pretty much why I dont ride "with" anyone, sure get the gang together, meet up at X ridign out at Y, you 45 minutes late you will see some empty trailers in parking lot, or you wont, maybe see someone else thats late, but I saddle up and go, we happen to be going same pace thats great, if not ? thats ok too, I'll see you at lunch. Never understood the need to be attached at the hip to the group, and everyone has to stay together, lets wait on so and so gotta wait for thsi that and the other.. Umm no thanks, gets me wound up, gets my horse wound up,,, I'm just out to have fun, so come on lets ride, take off or follow behind, dont matter to me.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

Same here Joe....I guess the wife and I ride enough that we can keep up if we want to.......I've got to admit, a peanut roller does frustrate my walking mare....she'll slow down if I ask her to, but she sure doesn't like it much.

For some, there's never good enough....I was a lot like that in my younger years.....

I raised field trial/gun dog beagles for almost 30 years....started out with grade dogs....wound up with high dollar stuff and placed one second at the AKC nationals.....It got pretty serious...people get mad...cheat...do things you wouldn't expect....I guess that's what happens in most things when it gets to serious. That's one of the main reasons I won't take horse riding to seriously.....safe, sane horses...they don't have to be perfect and neither do I. When I'm not having fun and enjoying it anymore then I'll do something else...


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

I don't care how other people ride and I won't say a word unless they ask or a horrible accident is about to happen or happening and I can save someone from an injury(even ask my husband! LOL!) I think that is the polite thing to do. Unfortunately Gunslinger, the folks you rode with recently felt the need to push their ideas onto you and your wife rather than just enjoying the ride. But if asked I will give my unprofessional advice and opinion. 
I do strive to improve my position and way of handling my horses because I like bettering myself and helping my horses get better. Some of it is show related but some of it not. I like a horse that feels effortless under saddle in the show pen, branding pen or outside. But I am not one to shove it down someones throat if they ride with me and I hope I would receive the same respect.(unless it was a work situation of course)


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Gunslinger and Joe....I will come ride with you anytime!!

I can't say I've had any bad experiences being snubbed for my riding thank goodness. Actually, maybe it's because when I ride my percheron, they are so in awe of her that they don't even see me...lol.

Anyhoo.....I'm riding my pinto a lot more now. She just turned four and I just want to be sure that I experience a good canter with her so I know if she would canter without me asking, I could do ok and that she would be ok from being already experienced with cantering under saddle. So, I feel I need to be riding as correctly as possible in order for her to learn the ropes.

When I took lessons, I wasn't in it to look like any type of show rider. I doubt I will ever look like that no matter how much training I pay for. I'm good with that, just want to ride the best I can to build my confidence and help my horse move and not have her be a 'green' horse forever.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

I am enjoying what the Guys have to say here. And I agree.


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

@ oldhorselady......... I think you need to come up to Oregon and we can ride our big blacks together, 
Your's may make mine look tiny, lol.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

COWCHICK77 said:


> I don't care how other people ride and I won't say a word unless they ask or a horrible accident is about to happen or happening and I can save someone from an injury(even ask my husband! LOL!) I think that is the polite thing to do. Unfortunately Gunslinger, the folks you rode with recently felt the need to push their ideas onto you and your wife rather than just enjoying the ride. But if asked I will give my unprofessional advice and opinion.
> I do strive to improve my position and way of handling my horses because I like bettering myself and helping my horses get better. Some of it is show related but some of it not. I like a horse that feels effortless under saddle in the show pen, branding pen or outside. But I am not one to shove it down someones throat if they ride with me and I hope I would receive the same respect.(unless it was a work situation of course)


I think we all strive to improve our way of handling our horses. That said, I'll never be a jockey in the Kentucky derby, I'll never win a rodeo, reining event etc.

I'm in no means opposed to lessons, but do believe experience is often the best teacher. 

In the case of young ladies who don't have the means to support themselves much less a horse they can still enjoy riding without taking lessons. Yea, they might not live their dream of winning an Olympic gold medal, but they can still dream, and enjoy the ride as well.

Like I've said before, I drive every day but I'll never race in the Daytona 500. Most people won't either.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

We have all run into the pleasure riders who's only goal is to take their butt for a ride and the horse is the means to do that.
Hats off to anywone who wants to improve their skills and communication with their horse. Horse and rider will both be better off. Even a few lessons help but if that is not an option there is plenty of education information available...television, DVDs, books. And lots of "doing." You also have to be open to listening to what your horse is telling you. And never be afraid to ask for help. We all make plenty of mistakes along the way and hopefully we learn from those errors. With all the "learning" I've done I should be a genius by now!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

gunslinger said:


> We, (my wife and I) ride most weekends simply for the joy it brings.
> 
> What's important to us is the joy of the ride and being on the trail together. So, we know we're doing it wrong, but we don't care. Ignorance is bliss. We do it for the simplicity of it and could care less about a flying lead change.
> 
> ...


 
Wish we lived closer. i'd ride with you guys any day of the week! my kind of riders.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Here is an example of the sort of tip a good instructor might give...although in this case, it came via HF instead of an instructor. A minor detail in tacking up, yet apparently a significant one:

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-tack-equipment/does-lift-front-wither-relief-pad-182969/#post2366121


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

nvr2many said:


> @ oldhorselady......... I think you need to come up to Oregon and we can ride our big blacks together,
> Your's may make mine look tiny, lol.


That would be most awesome Nvr!


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Personally I think "enjoying your horse" is the most important thing, and it's relevant to what you enjoy. I respect people who only want to trail ride. I enjoy trail riding, but I am a competition junkie. I get my thrills from showing. I also respect people who only ride dressage, or jump, or only ride western pleasure. All sports require a lot of preparation and skill, but just not the cup of tea I want with my morning danish. Love watching though.

I'm with Cowchick, don't tell someone they ride "wrong" unless it's dangerous....


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## 6gun Kid (Feb 26, 2013)

My wife and I came together because of horses, and I have been riding longer than she has been alive ( I am her "old man" in more ways than one). But she is a dressage trainer and instructor, and I am just an old cow hand from Texas. It took us a long time to ride together cuz I just knew she would be all "hold your hands this way" or "position your feet thusly" etc. We had a very pleasant ride, we rode for 8 or so hours through the national forest and across a couple of ranches. When I finally mentioned it (much later), she said it wasnt broke so why should she try and fix it. Maybe not an answer for the OP, but I love telling the story


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

6gun Kid said:


> "position your feet thusly"


Just because this made me :rofl:


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## ropinbiker (Aug 3, 2012)

I didn't ready every post, and this may have been brought up, but it's not really the "chair" seat that would make a horse bolt, or booger---it is the tenseness or squeezing that would make the horse bolt....all of my horses know that when my feet move forward and I sit deep in the saddle and "relax" that means stop AND get ready to back up, or slow down considerably...so I am with bsms on that; conversely, when i put more weight in my stirrups, lean my shoulders forward, and move my left hand up their neck that means pick up speed until i sit back and move my hand slightly back....when i actually squeeze my legs and put both lower legs on them--that means go real fast without hesitation....(i also point my toes downward during that sqeezing motion. I don't know if that's the "correct" way to do it, it's just how I was taught and how it works for me...my legs are almost in constant motion is seems--either holding up a shoulder in a turn, or pushing a shoulder through a turn, or a hip in /out, etc...so, i probably look like a disaster while aboard and chasing cows!


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## palogal (May 30, 2008)

6gun Kid said:


> My wife and I came together because of horses, and I have been riding longer than she has been alive ( I am her "old man" in more ways than one). But she is a dressage trainer and instructor, and I am just an old cow hand from Texas. It took us a long time to ride together cuz I just knew she would be all "hold your hands this way" or "position your feet thusly" etc. We had a very pleasant ride, we rode for 8 or so hours through the national forest and across a couple of ranches. When I finally mentioned it (much later), she said it wasnt broke so why should she try and fix it. Maybe not an answer for the OP, but I love telling the story


 
Can I tell my side of the story?? 

When we went and rode through the national forest, I was waaaaay more focused on how handsome my future husband was, and how nice his butt was as he sat in the saddle, and how nice it was to be with him, to worry about his hands or his feet being 'thusly'. He looked like every picture of the 'cowboy riding the range' we all fell in love with as young girls. He could have been wearing clown shoes for all I knew.

Point is, enjoy your ride. I can honestly tell you than when I ride with my 'old cow hand' husband (and he is older than me  ) I am much more into spending time with him than I am about his propriety in the saddle.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

palogal said:


> Can I tell my side of the story??
> 
> When we went and rode through the national forest, I was waaaaay more focused on how handsome my future husband was, and how nice his butt was as he sat in the saddle, and how nice it was to be with him, to worry about his hands or his feet being 'thusly'. He looked like every picture of the 'cowboy riding the range' we all fell in love with as young girls. He could have been wearing clown shoes for all I knew.
> 
> Point is, enjoy your ride. I can honestly tell you than when I ride with my 'old cow hand' husband (and he is older than me  ) I am much more into spending time with him than I am about his propriety in the saddle.


Awwwwwwwwwww....so cute! That's the way it should be!!!:wink:


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

Nothing like following behind a nice pair of jeans! : )


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## palogal (May 30, 2008)

Dustbunny said:


> Nothing like following behind a nice pair of jeans! : )


 
AMEN....Can I just say...my handsome hubby sure can sure do justice to a pair of wranglers  He's blushing FYI ya'll.


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## 6gun Kid (Feb 26, 2013)




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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

I've just started riding my horse at 'almost' liberty...just using a cord on her neck. Now, if it REALLY mattered that much to the horse....wouldn't she not listen to my aids and maybe even bucked me off or run away??? lol. She seems completely content with my faults, as I am with hers.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

Oldhorselady said:


> I've just started riding my horse at 'almost' liberty...just using a cord on her neck. Now, if it REALLY mattered that much to the horse....wouldn't she not listen to my aids and maybe even bucked me off or run away??? lol. She seems completely content with my faults, as I am with hers.


Obviously she understands what you are asking. Good job!


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## palogal (May 30, 2008)

Cute pic! Pleasure riding, is just that, for pleasure. Although it's important to ride safely, your actual style is inconsequential. Keep yourself and the horse safe and comfortable and I'd say you're all set.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Equally bad is the girl pressed into a " proper" dressage seat, stiff, insecure, but " pretty".


That would be me.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Skyseternalangel said:


> That would be me.


Oh my....
So, is it you not feeling " right" or is your instructor insisting in a certain way?


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## palogal (May 30, 2008)

Skyseternalangel said:


> That would be me.


Bummer...What's fun about that?


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Oh my....
> So, is it you not feeling " right" or is your instructor insisting in a certain way?


It's just my past instructors took my riding flaws and helped me to get a better position... and I'd ride Sky in my own time and I began to develop my own seat but then as lessons continued it just kept getting too picky. Now I have a better riding instructor who is increasing my confidence by asking me to do what feels right and I'm able to be less stiff... but it's a huge issue for me to stop being in a "perfect" position. When I first started lessons again in NZ I felt very insecure at times on a horse, but have improved since then.



palogal said:


> Bummer...What's fun about that?


It's not fun at all, hence why I'm always struggling with confidence.

~~

And partially it's me. I am a perfectionist and I try not to be but it's a hard transition. I have begun to feel at one with a horse cantering but trot is still a problem (stemming from bad experiences that I can't let go of) and I've gotten a taste of lateral riding which is better.

But yeah too stiff hurts. I'm young but I feel as though my body is pretty beaten up from this bad ingrained habit.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

That is why I like my signature line. "Position" is too often taught as static, and too often taught without regard for the individual rider and horse. Learning how to feel the balance, how your balance affects your horse's balance, how to 'dance' with your partner - to me, that's riding!

"...there are only two criteria of your position; 
a) are you in fluid balance and rhythm with your horse or not? 
b) does your seat enable you to control your horse efficiently?" 
- V.S. Littauer​


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

What has REALLY helped me...and only as of lately....is riding bareback at liberty!

I, not long ago, took my first lessons and I was more confused with each lesson feeling like my instructor had lost her mind. I think she was throwing too much information at me all at one time. I had to pick it apart on my own time. For what 'felt' like I was already sitting straight, in a correct position....was so far from just that. I saw myself riding my horse when I rode past a window and couldn't believe what I saw! I thought my seat bones were on my pockets....like I've heard a million times....sit on your pockets!!! Well....after I went back to basics in the arena bareback....I found my seatbones....even under all of my extra padding on my butt. After I improved my posture, some of the other stuff that I thought was insane started falling into place on their own. Then, when I started ridind at liberty....it took all of my crutches away...just me and my horse and a string on her neck. I had one of those special moments where it now feels like I'm riding 'with' my horse not 'on' my horse.

All of this has built my confidence and we just keep going forward. My stirrups have even dropped two levels...where when I took lessons and she lowered my stirrups one level, I was appauled and could not function...lol.


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## Fort fireman (Mar 5, 2011)

gunslinger said:


> Why is it that so many think you need lessons to ride a horse?


This is just my 2 cents and worth every penny you pay for it. I'm not really huge in taking lessons. I do always try to improve what I'm doing and look at pics of myself and any video my wife may take or what have you to try and improve. That being said sometimes a lesson is a good thing. Even it is just for someone on the ground with a different perspective . A fresh set of eyes if you like.

An example. I was having a problem for a while with my horse dropping his left shoulder in the canter to the left. Of course i try to adjust myself and not drop my shoulder and think i have accomplished this but he still keeps dropping that shoulder and almost diving into the left turn. I'm getting frustrated and so on. My mother in law comes to town to visit and she is a dressage instructor. I alway take a lesson or 2 with her when she comes to visit. In 10 minutes she has my problem fixed. it was exactly what I thought it was. i was dropping my shoulder and causing my horse to drop his. However I thought i had fixed it but i didn't. it took a different set of eyes that doesn't see me ride every day to pick up the little bit of dropping I was doing. 

Again just my opinion but if I'm presented with the oportunity to improve, most times I'll take it. Its especially easy if the lessons are free from my wifes mom.:lol:


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

I agree Fort. I have said, quite a few times now, that it would benefit me more to pay someone to ride out on a trail with me than pay someone to give me a lesson in an arena. I want someone to tell me what to do or be my 'go to' when I am having an issue while I'm riding...whether the horse is doing something I don't want to do or I need someone to boost my confidence during the moment. Sometimes, just having someone there as a second set of eyes is worth millions! Just someone telling me....."You are fine, she is NOT bucking, just being a tart...continue on." Sometimes seeing someone else ride through a 'non-existent' problem on my horse too helps...showing me that the reaction will not be as horrible as I'm imagining.

This is exactly where I am at right now. I have taken my first four lessons here recently. At each lesson, I felt more confused and actually like I was not worthy enough to even ride my horse. I took what I was told at those lessons, along with advice of others, and applied those things on my own, in my own time and ways of thinking....and I have learned some things now.

My initial 'want' from taking lessons, was to be able to ask my green horse to canter without me confusing her. I paid for $200 in lessons and got walking around the arena, discouraged, in pain and feeling old and fat. I understand there are some basics to get through, but I don't think the time that was spent during all of this to walk around on my horse was worth it all and was waaaaay drawn out. So, I'm now still in that same situation...wanting to canter my green horse and learning the best way I can to do this with her. I've read many posts, books etc.....and even those will give you different ways to ask for the canter....making it even more confusing....then combine that with the fact that I overanylize everything is not a good combo...lol. So, if you move your outside leg back to ask for canter...how does the horse know not to canter when you use that same position to move his haunches etc????

Anyway, I will be the only owner of my horse and I can teach her 'my way' of asking for things...she doesn't know that the fancy dressage rider doesn't ask for things that way.

The biggest lesson for me as of lately, that was free, was watching myself ride by a window where I saw the reflection of me riding and what I THOUGHT was me sitting up in a good position....my perception was very wrong. So, I fixed it!


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## Fort fireman (Mar 5, 2011)

I also have a bad habit of pushing my feet out forward and rounding my back when things start getting faster or I'm insecure just to brace in the stirrup or just be lazy. it's nice to have someone snap me out of it before i really get braced and mess things up andget out of wack. That is just one of my many problems I work on every time I ride. I could list a bunch more. 

Boy I suck!!!!:lol:


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Fort fireman said:


> I also have a bad habit of pushing my feet out forward and rounding my back when things start getting faster or I'm insecure just to brace in the stirrup or just be lazy. it's nice to have someone snap me out of it before i really get braced and mess things up andget out of wack. That is just one of my many problems I work on every time I ride. I could list a bunch more.
> 
> Boy I suck!!!!:lol:


Me too.....but you know what???? I have great horses that are very accepting and tolerant...lol.

I decided this morning that my next ride teaching canter to my mare I am just going to ride in a halter instead of bridle to be sure I am not holding her back by accident in the mouth.

Riding my horses are teaching me how bad my usual posture really is in everyday life. I have been finding new muscles.

It takes a strong person to see and admit to their faults. Good for you!!!!:wink:


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## 6gun Kid (Feb 26, 2013)

Fort fireman said:


> Boy I suck!!!!:lol:


 No you don't, you know what you are doing wrong and that is half the battle, you need miles, that's all


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