# Looking for our next vehicle



## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Let me be the first to say that if you are planning on hauling two ordinary sized horses you are not looking at a "vehicle". You are looking at a truck. I have a 2016 Ford F-150 turbo. It's a pleasure to drive although a bit less so to park (it has an extra-cab and a 6' bed). It hauls my BP aluminum 2 horse slant (2260 lbs empty) just fine. I get about 22 mpg on the freeway and 16 mpg in town *without* the trailer. I go the speed limit though, many people waste gas speeding. 

I kind of wish I'd gotten 4 wheel drive . . . and a little bigger engine . . . but I too was balancing gas economy and hauling capacity. I still think I did the right thing.

You will get responses to the effect that you and your horses will inevitably die horribly if you don't get an F-350 diesel dually. You won't, although the thrill of powering up steep gravel roads in sleet storms may not be yours. You might have to be more careful where you go and when.


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## LoveGus (Oct 4, 2016)

Avna said:


> Let me be the first to say that if you are planning on hauling two ordinary sized horses you are not looking at a "vehicle". You are looking at a truck. I have a 2016 Ford F-150 turbo. It's a pleasure to drive although a bit less so to park (it has an extra-cab and a 6' bed). It hauls my BP aluminum 2 horse slant (2260 lbs empty) just fine. I get about 22 mpg on the freeway and 16 mpg in town *without* the trailer. I go the speed limit though, many people waste gas speeding.
> 
> I kind of wish I'd gotten 4 wheel drive . . . and a little bigger engine . . . but I too was balancing gas economy and hauling capacity. I still think I did the right thing.
> 
> You will get responses to the effect that you and your horses will inevitably die horribly if you don't get an F-350 diesel dually. You won't, although the thrill of powering up steep gravel roads in sleet storms may not be yours. You might have to be more careful where you go and when.


Sadly I use the term vehicle for anything that gets me from point a to point b. I don't plan on hauling in bad weather if I can help it, hate driving in it as it is. I'm also a speed limit follower where I am the cops are similar to voltures in the sense of you go one mile over the speed limit and they find an excuse to pull you over. We may start off only having one horse and down the road get a second. I've seen an f150 (an 02) with a v6 engine, which I'm told is ok for pulling. Is that true?


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## buggy (Aug 8, 2016)

We have a 2014 Chevy Silverado 1500 (4 WD). It is rated tow 9500lbs max. We haul a 16 foot steel stock trailer. The trailer is 3500lbs empty. The truck hauls the trailer, heavy mats, 2 average horses and tack with no issues. Regular around town driving it averages 20 mpg. 

We had an older 2500 Silverado HD. My husband loved that truck and the power but it started to rust out and a new 2500 was not in the budget.


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

> Currently on my list Ford Excusion (my dad used to tow a travel trailer on cross country trips with one) however nearest one for sale is 40miles so looks like they're out and F150s (tons for sale near us).


I have to ask why 40 miles makes it too far? To find just the right vehicle you want sometimes its best to drive a little for it! Otherwise you may end up settling for less when you could of had better.

I haul my 2h slant load Featherlite wtih a 2010 f150. It does pretty well. I'd love something bigger because we just end up going a big slowwww sometimes. I've never had trouble stopping it though and the trailer as breaks too.

Whatever you get make SURE to install the electric break controller so your trailer breaks work.


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## LoveGus (Oct 4, 2016)

evilamc said:


> > Currently on my list Ford Excusion (my dad used to tow a travel trailer on cross country trips with one) however nearest one for sale is 40miles so looks like they're out and F150s (tons for sale near us).
> 
> 
> I have to ask why 40 miles makes it too far? To find just the right vehicle you want sometimes its best to drive a little for it! Otherwise you may end up settling for less when you could of had better.


For the right dealer ship itd be ok and if it was in the same state. It's in NY the state of high taxes. The dealership has a lot of bad reviews (such as not honoring warrenty vehicles not passing inspection when time came) etc. if the dealership had good reviews and was in our state I'd be ok with it


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## k9kenai (Jul 1, 2017)

I have a friend who has a new-ish (within the last five years) Toyota Tundra (4WD, 6ft bed) who tows a two horse bumper pull stock-type trailer. She can get just over 300 miles on one tank of gas (!!) pulling a fully loaded trailer on the interstate (she's got 4 horses total, from 14h all the way up to just over 17h so depending on who she's carrying it could be a heavy load). I've driven her truck in the winter time and it is _amazing _and makes me seriously consider getting a Tundra in the future.

I didn't believe her at first on the gas mileage but after using it for a couple weeks driving back and forth to town without once having to stop in at the gas station I'm a believer that she can get that far towing without having to stop for gas along the way. I think she may have told me it has (or at least her model) an extra large gas tank? Not sure. The 4WD function is easy to use as well and it was fairly easy to park (even for a parking failure like me). Price-wise, though, the new models can be expensive. But they have good resale value and you can usually find some older models that have decent prices. I'm not sure on tech specs and how high quality the brand is, but I know my uncle has had the same Toyota 4Runner since the early 2000's and it has almost 400,000 miles (rough miles, too, with him being a field biologist) and is still going strong so that probably says something about the brand.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Spring for 4-w-d. Seriously. It's well worth it. Even starting a trailer on dew-covered grass or in mud or on ice is not going to happen easily without it. You can get by with a half-ton if you are very careful about weight and make sure your truck has all of the heavy-duty options like a towing package, frame hitch, tranny cooler, etc. Longer wheelbases are better than short. Really do your homework regarding capacities and specs between older and newer vehicles. Sometimes 1 model year difference means a lot of difference in what you can pull and how long the truck lasts. If you live in areas with a lot of hills/mountains, etc. you will not want a half ton. 

FWIW, I have driven a Yukon XL and/or Suburban for years and pull two horses in a stock trailer just fine. I did ok with a regular Yukon (shorter wheelbase) but the longer truck on the full-size truck frame is much more stable. If you are towing with a half-ton, you may need to forego some things in your trailer, like a large tack area, living quarters, etc. Of course you want a strong, safe, trailer but some 'nice to have's and creature comforts mean a lot more weight. You want to take only the tack you need, probably don't want to add the weight of a big water tank, etc. Small things add up quickly. 

If you opt for a pickup, go for a gooseneck trailer. It will tow so much better than a bumper pull. Stepping up to a 3/4 ton pickup or Suburban/SUV will cost more initially and you'll miss out on gas mileage, but some people think that's a fair trade, particularly if they are hauling every weekend and want a weekender package on their trailer or want to take 3 horses.


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## LoveGus (Oct 4, 2016)

Hunting around on car gurus I stumbled upon one ad I never looked at (mostly because I'm not big on Chevy but they aren't common in my area). 

It's an 06 Chevy Trailblazer LT 4wd with tow package with 95 thousand miles on it. Doing a brief google search it says at max it says towing capacity max 6600 (Carmax.com). Anyone ever use a trailblazer? Also how easy would it be to find a decently priced trailer (looking for used) that would weigh enough I won't max out the chevy with just the trailer?


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Gooseneck trailers are _not _for everyone and then again neither are bumper-pulls.

You must decide what kind of trailer you want before you go any further.
You can *not* safely pull a gooseneck with a 150/1500 rated truck.
There are a lot of formulas that come into a safe ratio and where the weight is distributed on the vehicle...
There is a "rule-of-thumb" about a % above what the truck is rated for needed since tow-ratings are dead weight tested.
Please remember that any truck with tow ratings are *never* done with live load and that is the difference. You can tow dead weight of boat / camper far easier than a load of moving cargo such as horse{s}. They aren't crash testing live cargo to get those numbers...they do crash test boats & campers.

No one answered this but yes you can tow with a V6, but it is a strain to the engine and drive train.
Again, live cargo puts more stress than a load that is dead and non-moving.
There is also a difference in size of brakes, radiator, transmission cooler, and yes the frame itself is heavier on a 250/2500 or larger class truck.
You don't need to go crazy but please _don't_ under-truck yourself either. 
If you plan to trailer more than a very rare time, the wear and tear on your vehicle will cost you more than you think.
One of those wear & tear items is tires...lightweight tires are not rated to handle the payload of towing any trailer like a horse trailer loaded, period.

You have a lot to consider.
First and foremost is what the trailer is going to be, the weight of it loaded, bumper or gooseneck, then the drive-train and very importantly the engine size. 
You need power for take-off and stopping ability, handling is helped by the longer the wheelbase the better the ride too...

True story...my friend just wrecked her truck and horse trailer LOADED recently.
She was driving, minding her own business when another car crossed the lane and hit her broadside, driving partially up her truck bed.
She crossed 3 lanes of traffic 3x with a whipping trailer hanging on to it..
Her trailer hitch pin broke from the stress...
Her trailer brakes fully engaged and held that trailer straight on the angle it was going, but when the nose hit the ground it dug in and tipped that trailer...
Her horse inside had one heck of a ride in a slant load...The horse LIVED with minor injuries of stitches needed for a laceration.
Her truck was totaled as is her trailer...
She walked away unscathed but frightened, _*because*_ she had the truck to handle that size trailer, brakes that worked perfectly on truck & trailer.
It could of been so much worse...she, her truck passenger and the horse all could of been dead!

_Don't under-truck yourself_ and make darn sure you have the proper rated hitch, proper rated ball and trailer brakes that work. No exceptions to any of that, period!
I question those who get by by bare minimums and how "smart" they are...it is your life you play with. :-|
:runninghorse2:...
_jmo..._


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## LoveGus (Oct 4, 2016)

horselovinguy said:


> Gooseneck trailers are _not _for everyone and then again neither are bumper-pulls.
> 
> You must decide what kind of trailer you want before you go any further.
> You can *not* safely pull a gooseneck with a 150/1500 rated truck.
> ...


I'm looking for a simple plan bumper pull stock trailer nothing fancy so it won't be that heavy of a trailer empty, possibly lighter then some with tack spaces and what not. I've driven my dads f450 with a 30' gooseneck trailer and hated it, drove the same truck with a loaded dump trailer and I prefer it. I know again live load is completely different. I'd rather be over trucked then under


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## elkdog (Nov 28, 2016)

LoveGus said:


> Hunting around on car gurus I stumbled upon one ad I never looked at (mostly because I'm not big on Chevy but they aren't common in my area).
> 
> It's an 06 Chevy Trailblazer LT 4wd with tow package with 95 thousand miles on it. Doing a brief google search it says at max it says towing capacity max 6600 (Carmax.com). Anyone ever use a trailblazer? Also how easy would it be to find a decently priced trailer (looking for used) that would weigh enough I won't max out the chevy with just the trailer?


The trailblazers are known for a weak transmission with regular driving. Towing with them puts on added stress and they're pretty expensive to fix.


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## LoveGus (Oct 4, 2016)

elkdog said:


> LoveGus said:
> 
> 
> > Hunting around on car gurus I stumbled upon one ad I never looked at (mostly because I'm not big on Chevy but they aren't common in my area).
> ...


And this is why I ask questions, need a car that'll last many miles. No wonder it's so far below our price bracket


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Gus...
The Trailblazer is also a short wheelbase and that is_* not*_ a better choice for a tow vehicle.
"A full-size sport utility vehicle is a far cry from what I think of as "full-size" anything today." 
Full size cars barely sit 4 adults today. 
Years ago a full size car sat 6 adults and had a full frame under it...not today!!
Truth, honest truth is the longer the wheelbase the better control and ride you will have for horse and human.
I was told a long, long time ago the tow vehicle should never be shorter than the trailer towed.
Today that would be very difficult to stand behind as fact or myth with all the behemoth trailers hauling down the road.... :-|
In the past, a horse trailer was a simple 2 horse. A standard 8' bed regular cab pickup truck was longer..._not any more!_
Another of my friends said they had a Denali in the past and it was horrible towing a 2 horse trailer. They sold it and bought a truck. 
Same trailer but night and day with towing capability and safer handling they spoke of...:shrug:. 

If you find yourself a regular pickup truck, I would myself prefer a 250/2500 series, you would be in good shape to tow a stock trailer bumper pull.
Please don't think because a "stock trailer" it is not of considerable weight...they weigh nearly the same as a enclosed horse trailer.
The difference is just a few hundred pounds, if that, and that is also true about steel versus aluminum...you _don't_ save that much in weight.
If you are cutting the number crunching that close...wait and save more $$ for a few months then go searching.

To me, what is non-negotiable is 4WD. 
As someone else said, damp grass could do you in with loss of traction forget a incline and deeper sand/dirt pulling out of your barnyard, a trail head or show ground could totally ruin your day too.
If you know how to drive a stick, consider that as a option too. 
Better fuel economy it can be.
My trucks are stick shift, more importantly they are 8 cylinder normal gas motors and I have more than ample power to pull my rig _and another_ fully loaded rig through deep sand..yes done it a few times now when the 2WD truck bogged down and sank. :icon_rolleyes:

Just so you know...
When you get really serious about this...
Take the VIN number of any vehicle you seriously are considering and have it run.
Not only will accident damages fixed be told if repairs were done in a licensed body shop that meets industry repair standards but the # also will tell you exactly what is in that truck from the factory. 
Because a blurb says it can do something..._no_. 
To many options that can change capabilities drastically you *need *to check if you aren't presented original door sticker info by the vehicle owner. 
What we read, or are told it "says" and what it "does" are often very different...
_Buyer Beware!!_
:runninghorse2:....


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## LoveGus (Oct 4, 2016)

horselovinguy said:


> Gus...
> The Trailblazer is also a short wheelbase and that is_* not*_ a better choice for a tow vehicle.
> "A full-size sport utility vehicle is a far cry from what I think of as "full-size" anything today."
> Full size cars barely sit 4 adults today.
> ...


The early excursion my dad had (believe it was an 02) was great. Could fit the entire family (my parents two sisters and the dogs) for a long family vacation while carrying a loaded down travel trailer. Or it pulled a large lawn tractor (not a farm one) in a heavy dump trailer from pa to New York and back. That's why I'm hoping to find one. Tough and his was a beast when it came to driving in tricky spots. In our area it seems to be mostly f150s, dakotas or the smaller rams on the car lots. That I can drive any way, the better ones seem to be sticks which I have zero clue how to drive


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

LoveGus said:


> The early excursion my dad had (believe it was an 02) was great. Could fit the entire family (my parents two sisters and the dogs) for a long family vacation while carrying a loaded down travel trailer.


The early Excursion was a 6-man cab truck chassis underneath enclosed like a station wagon design...
You just answered your "what am I searching for" if that style is what you desire.
Quad-cab, 6 man cab...the secret words written though are _truck chassis and longer wheelbase_. 

Oh...the Excursion was made on the F250 chassis to handle the weight and job expectations it was designed to do.
_https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Excursion

:runninghorse2:*...
*jmo...
_


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## LoveGus (Oct 4, 2016)

horselovinguy said:


> LoveGus said:
> 
> 
> > The early excursion my dad had (believe it was an 02) was great. Could fit the entire family (my parents two sisters and the dogs) for a long family vacation while carrying a loaded down travel trailer.
> ...


Is there a certain year though that was better towing wise?

My dad had two (a red one and a white one) and he was always saying the white one was horrible compared to the red (which is the one that carried us cross country).

Now seeing as so many excursion (being the tow vehicles they are) have really high mileage. Would it even be worth it to put money aside get one and having the engine redone (including transmission)?


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I think you could do just as well purchasing a 4 door truck and putting a cap on the bed for storage...has the same limitations to cargo carried with a height restriction...
The 4 door cab though gives you the people space you seek.
I had friends on LI where I use to live that had successive years of the Excursion but one was gas the other a diesel.
They said no comparison cause of fuel economy the diesel won out, but otherwise they liked the gas one for ride comfort. They towed equally with both and never made a comment one way or the other.
They also had multiple trucks...used all equally when needing the tow vehicle I saw.

Can't help you about particulars of engine/tranny combo but maybe something like Car & Driver or a magazine that critiques stuff could offer insight...
:runninghorse2:....


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## elkdog (Nov 28, 2016)

I don't know what area your in, but in my area the roads suck. Between that and the weather here, the native vehicles have rust and the suspension is usually shot. I started buying used trucks on e-bay from Texas, Arizona, New Mexico. Dry areas with much nicer roads. Look for the "no reserve" ads. They have no minimum bid. I picked up a 2014 Chevy 2500 for less than half of blue book.

If trucks aren't your thing, vans work great! I abused a 1 ton Chevy for years. The 5.7 motor pulled up to 8 horses with all kinds of room inside for saddles, people, and gear. It still runs and is sitting out back here being used for a tack room.


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## LoveGus (Oct 4, 2016)

elkdog said:


> I don't know what area your in, but in my area the roads suck. Between that and the weather here, the native vehicles have rust and the suspension is usually shot. I started buying used trucks on e-bay from Texas, Arizona, New Mexico. Dry areas with much nicer roads. Look for the "no reserve" ads. They have no minimum bid. I picked up a 2014 Chevy 2500 for less than half of blue book.
> 
> If trucks aren't your thing, vans work great! I abused a 1 ton Chevy for years. The 5.7 motor pulled up to 8 horses with all kinds of room inside for saddles, people, and gear. It still runs and is sitting out back here being used for a tack room.


We live in north eastern Pa. Often we joke that some of the pot holes are enough to send you to China lol.


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## LoveGus (Oct 4, 2016)

So seeing as the nearest excursion to us is either over state lines (I'd rather not deal with the hassle of redoing titles etc) or 3hours away (with high mileage lowest I've seen is 180000 for 16k and no idea if our beater would make it).

So we started looking at the F250s (4wheel drive). I found an 01 Ford F-250 Supersuty XLwith a V8 engine, has 106 thousand miles out it and comes with a plow attachment on the front (it would be removed). Downside is it's a 2 seater but it's just my fiancé and I plus the dog. Would that be an ok tow vehicle?


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

From what I just saw....
_https://www.edmunds.com/ford/f-250-super-duty/2001/features-specs/_

Yes, it meets your needs and exceeds based upon you saying a simple 2 horse basic trailer.
This _*will*_ work.

Does the truck have a camper package, towing package or any add-ons extra?
Those items give the truck larger suspension, cooling capabilities and braking.

Add on yourself...
A class 3 or 4 trailer hitch is easily found and inexpensive {look at U-Haul for name brand, inexpensive hitches installed}
Do though make sure you do a brake controller for those trailer brakes to function.
Trailer brakes make any tow situation so much safer and legal.
Those items can and are checked by NYS Troopers, NYS DOT and local police in random stops...
Also make sure you purchase a trailer ball rated for the weight of trailer towed or greater...it isn't the $5.00 ball found in Walmart either...but costs a few $$ and is just as important as any other piece of equipment it be the right weight classifications. :wink:

:runninghorse2:...


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## LoveGus (Oct 4, 2016)

horselovinguy said:


> From what I just saw....
> _https://www.edmunds.com/ford/f-250-super-duty/2001/features-specs/_
> 
> Yes, it meets your needs and exceeds based upon you saying a simple 2 horse basic trailer.
> ...


The truck comes with a hitch, I don't know which class it'd be. But the truck doesn't come with any specials such as tow package. These pictures are from the dealers website. I'd never but a cheap hitch, that just spells disaster.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

You will know if a "cheapy" bumper hitch or a frame hitch _{the one you want!}_...

You want a minimum of a class 3, prefer a class 4 or better...
If the truck has the capability to pull and handle...
Here is what the different classes are... https://www.realtruck.com/hitches/trailer-hitches-for-trucks-classes-and-designs/

Now, that snow plow setup... :think:
If you purchase the truck advertise it and leave it on the truck so you can demonstrate it works...if the plow is included sell as a working set.
Some plow frames have a detachable bottom section or the entire plow frame un-bolts very easily...
Either way, it is worth some $, possibly more than you realize.
It's plowing season and might be a easy sell.. or keep it for yourself and save the back-ache.
Make a few $$ doing some neighbors driveways {carefully *not* tagging driveway decorative paver stones or landscaping}.
I had a plow on my truck when I lived on the island... paid my horses board bill for the year in one small snow storm of plowing. Was good money. :wink:
I sold my plow setup when I moved south...made back what it cost me to purchase. :grin:

Before you jump in totally, get a VIN report done.
Shows any accidents and damage amounts and should also include certification fixed to industry standards, also should be able to tell you exactly what is in the truck from the manufacturer...gear ratios, engine, trans, and capability to handle what weights...
:runninghorse2:....
_jmo..._


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## LoveGus (Oct 4, 2016)

horselovinguy said:


> You will know if a "cheapy" bumper hitch or a frame hitch _{the one you want!}_...
> 
> You want a minimum of a class 3, prefer a class 4 or better...
> If the truck has the capability to pull and handle...
> ...


That's a good idea. I just picked up a paper shop of all things and found a 2000 ford excursion for sale (limited 6.8L V10) and from what I see it may be able to handle more then the truck (ford site said up to 10000lbs). It's at a very small mom and pop dealer (probably why it never came up in my searches) and has 148thousand on it. Which would you rather pull with an Excursion or the F250? Both seem like good choices


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I've driven and towed with a F250 XLT, regular cab, 4x4, 8' bed, 350M engine, manual transmission{stick shift}, camper special package many times...
I never drove a Excursion so can't compare...

I loved that truck and never had any issues with it...a true workhorse. 1980 year.
Went anyplace, did everything and more I asked of it...sold it when it had 265,000 miles on it {second engine} and the people who bought it took it upstate to their property to use for their needs their...

Go look and see, compare after seeing and driving both...
Get those reports and then make a decision which meets your needs, gives you some perks and works best for your situation.
Happy shopping.
:runninghorse2:...


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