# Got kicked twice last night, trying to load my horse.



## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

I think my pride and my heart is hurt more than anything. My bruises and swollen body parts will heal but I think it's brought me to a realization. 

Right now I am boarding 2 horses, Red and Beau. Red is my "new" horse that I bought in May, 6 years old. Beau is my 14-yr-old barrel horse that I retired this year because of arthritis problems. So he is serving as the pasture buddy for Red. 

I started boarding them at the end of May. My farrier came to me the first time, but he is now having all his clients come to him. No big deal, as he's only about 20 minutes away. So I had an appointment with him last night to bring the boys over. 

Right now I am borrowing my boarding couple's 3-horse slant load, with rear tack. I just finished school this year and I am searching for a trailer of my own. Red went through a little training with me to get him to load onto the trailer, but now I just point him at the door, very lightly tap the lunge whip on his hip, and up he goes. No problem. 

Now Beau hasn't been on a slant load with rear tack for 4 years, and we had some trouble the last time he did. He's just been hauled in a very large stock trailer otherwise. He's a big horse (16.1 hands) and I have always had difficulty loading him onto the trailer his entire life. I think he's claustraphobic. 

Normally what I do with Beau is lunge him to get him to load, if I am having trouble getting him to load. I was worried about it because of his arthritic back right leg (in his stifle and hock). I knew it would hurt to make him lunge around, but I normally don't have to do it very long and he gets the idea and goes on. 

Going to the farrier, I loaded Beau in about 10 minutes, which I thought was pretty dang good. I was happy with that. Red hopped on right behind him in the back slot. (My boarding couple has stuff in the front stall, so I loaded Beau into the middle slot.)

After the farrier is done with them, it's time to go home. Beau knew I wanted him to go on that trailer. You can see him looking at the door and see him thinking about it. He knows he's supposed to get in there. Things started getting sour after about 30 minutes. He's getting tired, but I know that he knows he's supposed to get on that thing. So he turned his butt toward me a couple times to get away from lunging. I honestly didn't think anything of it, because he has NEVER done anything as far as kicking. EVER. So the first few times I just pushed him away and made him continue on. Then a little while later, I had my body tight against his butt on one of the times he flung it around, so when he kicked, it didn't do more than take the wind out of my lungs. But it was still a kick regardless.

My farrier then took him to try, and he probably was more gruff that I was with making him move in the lunge, and he got his arm kicked when Beau flung around. He does it so quick there's not much you can do. 

Then later I tried again, keeping the rope very short and close. But he still managed to fling me around and gave me a good donkey kick in the thigh and sent me flying into the dirt. 

At that point, the sun was down. I was extremely embarrased my horse wouldn't load, not to mention the feeling of pretty much getting punched by your best friend (I've had this horse since he was 6 months old). My farrier said that he'll just keep him overnight and we can try him in his trailer the next day. It's a slant load, but he was the dividers off to the side and the rear tack collapsed, so it's as close to a stock trailer as we are going to get. 

So we're going over there tonight. 

I'm not going to lunge him, because that clearly isn't going to work with his painful leg and him becoming dangerous to kick. I just thank God he didn't get me lower in the knee, or higher to break my pelvis or ribs. 

I've officially never been kicked by a horse before, so I'm feeling more emotional over the whole thing. I had planned to finally let Beau go this spring, because I can only board 2 horses at a time, and I've like another useable riding horse as my second horse. But after all this, he's just not the same horse I grew up with, and as of today, I'd have no problem taking him to the sale barn this weekend, to be completely honest. My non-horsey husband wanted to just shoot him last night, after he watched Beau kick me across the yard. Which if he would have asked me when I was still lying on the ground, I would have agreed. 

I do have a yearling colt my parents are keeping for me, that I could bring up to keep Red company. After talking with my mom and with my husband, and in my mind, it's not worth it to me to try to work through dangerous behavior on a lame horse that's not rideable. I'm just more depressed about the whole situation, but maybe it was a slap in the face to wake up and send him down the road. 

Why didn't he just go on the trailer......... He knew that's where he was supposed to go. 

:-(

I'm just crossing my fingers we can get him on calmly and without a fight tonight to get him home.


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## corgi (Nov 3, 2009)

I am sorry you got kicked and am glad you were not badly hurt. I think you need to take some time and allow your emotions to settle down.

I don't believe you really mean that you are ready to take him to the sale barn. You are just really upset right now.

It sounds like this is the first and only time he has ever acted like this. It is not a pattern of behavior. I completely agree that kicking can never be tolerated...ever. It is too dangerous, but he was is a different environment and probably very frightened...and maybe even in pain. He knew he needed to go into the trailer but his horsey sense was telling him to be afraid..very afraid.

I totally understand how hurt you must feel inside. I have been there...after a horse deliberately bucked me off and broke my ribs.

But don't make any rash decisions about his future until some time has passed.

Hugs....


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

If he's lame & unridable please do him a favor & let your husband shoot him. At least that will be a quick end for your best friend. You must know where he'll end up if he goes to a sale.

Many slant loads are too tight for a larger horse.


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## Jewelsb (May 8, 2012)

I agree if you sell him I highly doubt he will just go somewhere to be a pasture puff or companion WITH good care. That canbe pretty hard to find. If he is lame and you sell him he will MOST LIKELY go to slaughter. I only know of two people though who would keep an unrideable lame horse though. My mother was one of them. Just put some thought into it before you make a decision.
I'm glad you weren't seriously hurt though.


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

If you sell him, what are you going to do when the new owners ask for their check back after he displays this dangerous behavior when they go to take him home. He needed his arthritic rump stomped into the ground for that behavior. It is okay for a horse to have an opinion and not want to load. That's fine. It is NOT okay to express that opinion with a dangerous action. 

There are so many things wrong with this situation. 

I am glad you were not seriously hurt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

I wouldn't send him to the sale, to be honest I think that's pretty heartless of you. Especially for an animal you say is your best friend. He's lame and unrideable, either keep him for good or put him down. His fate at a sale or even in the wide world isn't pretty.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

I am sorry for your injuries. **hugs**
I agree with Natisha--put him down. Cheaper than feeding him this winter. I just heard that the price of hay where I live has just jumped to $13.00/bale.
When I took my 16yo OTTB to the sale barn after he slipped on the ice and threw out his back, it was after 8 years of lessons, work, trailering, trail-riding, and I never could get him to change his bad attitude. I refused to sell him cheap to a teenage girl who could get hurt on him, and I didn't see the point of chiro-treating him, AND we had horse slaughter 4 miles north of us.
NOW, if you _manage_ to get him into the trailer and to an auction, your boy will travel to Mexico probably without any food or water for 4 days and be, maybe, humanely slaughtered--we just don't know how they do it there in 2012.
At 14yo he must have had a hard life to be arthritic. My 14yo (babysitter) KMHSA mare doesn't have this problem, and it took 25 years from my old QH to be suffering from arthritis so as to make him unridable. He certainly earned his pasture pet status, but would still load in a my slant-load trailer anytime I wanted him to. I make my 16'3hh gelding comfortable in my slant-load by removing the partition and giving him a double-stall. Unless your horse is huge and you're trying to make him load into a "hobbit-hole" sized trailer, he should load.
Just so you know, it's a good idea to train your horse to go through human-sized doors. I started this a long time ago, when I did lessons. I would lead my horses into the hay/grain storage area that I rented, usually bc I forgot something in there before I taught a lesson. It was tall enough for a horse to walk around in and to turn around in, and the door was about 34 inches wide. My barn entry door is 34 inches wide, and my big guy doesn't have a fear issue entering and exiting, with or without me--THAT's your trailer problem.
I guess the only suggestion I have is to start graining him in the trailer, moving it further in every day until he has to load to eat.


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## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> I wouldn't send him to the sale, to be honest I think that's pretty heartless of you. Especially for an animal you say is your best friend. He's lame and unrideable, either keep him for good or put him down. His fate at a sale or even in the wide world isn't pretty.


Seriously. How can you claim to love something as a "best friend" and then want to send them to a unfortunate fate just because he was being a stubborn little mule? I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Tiger, that is heartless. 

At least give the creature a peaceful end if you can't stand to be with him anymore, at least that's a more stress free outlet for him.


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## Kayella (Feb 11, 2012)

That was really disappointing to read. Disgusting to read, honestly. You're willing to shoot your best friend because he kicked you? I would HATE to even get to know you. Lord knows what would happen. 

When I was 10, we adopted an abused pony. Nine years later, he's still with us. Guess what? He's arthritic in the hip and can't be ridden. He's skittish around us STILL. Do you think the thought ever crossed our mind to sell him because we can't ride him? Never. He trusts us(somewhat), and I love him for the arthritic emotionally scarred pony he is. Who would want to buy such an abused pony? No one, except the meat buyer. And you can be POSITIVE he will never end up at the meat buyer.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I just want to know why you did not punish him immediately and let him know he would be lucky to live through a second kick.

Remember, anything you accept is what you are training him to do. You accepted getting the first kick and he let you know that he could do a lot more if you dared to try to make him do something he did not like. He is a product of your training. Make him pay the price NOW and not at the slaughter house.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

beau ..

The last thing I'm going to do is kick you again while you're down.

I understand being "gut kicked" sotospeak by a horse kicking you for the first time.. it will take the wind out of your sails for sure.

He's your horse, so ultimately the decision is yours. Just know that "sending him down the road" might be the easier thing in your mind, but it likely will end bad for the horse. It was never worth it to me for the couple hundred bucks the kill buyer will pay.

Putting him down (and shooting him is the quickest way) is a tough choice, but at least you know that he's not hurting, being mistreated, or taking that last trip to the kill pen.

What's done is done. What happens in the future is your decision.

Good luck today...


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## peppersgirl (Aug 24, 2012)

Its ok to have your feelings hurt, as im pretty sure it has happened at some point or another to every one of us. But I agree with what was said above, you need to let yourself calm down before making any rash decisions.

If hes been with you all these years and has been a good dependable horse, he deserves better than another fight into a trailer to be hauled to an auction, and end up god knows where..


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## WickedNag (Sep 7, 2010)

Deserves better than an auction.. you run him and used him up and than will send him to slaughter. Put on your big girl panties and put a bullet in his head.


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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

Well, Beau, I hardly know where to start with this. 

So, I guess with the farrier first -- I must say this is the first time I've heard of a farrier that didn't make barn calls. I can see the argument for efficiency on his part but it does somehow seem counterproductive to providing a service saleable to clients. 

Now, I sense you have some experience and knowledge with horses. You recognized that your horse had trailer loading issues in the past and that it had been four years since he had been in that type of trailer. Plus he has an arthritic leg (I believe it is harder for a horse to step into a trailer with a bad back leg than a bad front leg; also having the farrier holding the leg for trimming may have created additional discomfort). It is regrettable that the horse chose the course of action that he took but he did rather get set up to fail. 

I hope now that you`ve had a chance to sleep on it and ponder where things went wrong that you`ll still keep him for his sake; do some trailer loading training with him; perhaps consider Bute in the future if he`s has to go in the trailer (for pain management); and when you get your new trailer, you may want to think about one with a ramp.

Good luck.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

*loading*

Well I'd rather have a horse euthanised on the yard than take it to a sale knowing it was going to end up in a kill pen which there is a (98% chance of him going.
If you get after a horse they will often lash out, you just have to learn to keep out of the way and be quick on your feet
My trailer has a rear tack section that easily comes out so the horses have a full width opening to go at.
The mare we bought last year knows how to load perfectly but also knows how to 'try it on' as she's obviously been successful in the past at doing that so every now and again she decides to have a game with us
My husband - who is way stronger than me - leads her and I get behind with a lunge whip and she gets it cracked behind her and if need be flicked across her butt with it. Yes she lashes out but I know where to stand and where to move too to be safe. I also yell really loudly at her (well it makes me feel better) We dont get 'angry', we dont lose our tempers she doesn't get hurt (horses will kick & bite each other in the field a lot harder) but we dont let up either. 
The minute she is on the doors are slammed shut and she gets a treat as a reward - makes being on that trailer better than whats behind
I wouldn't see this as way to train a green horse but for one that knows the job and is just being an *** it can work


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## muumi (Oct 17, 2011)

Please think carefully: a horse who has given you his best for 14 years, but slipped up once, does not deserve this fate.
Its so sad.

I'm sorry you got hurt though, but I don't think this is the right thing to do for a lifelong companion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peppersgirl (Aug 24, 2012)

Oh and sometimes the kill pen is prefereable to some of the ignorant/lazy homes that some of these horses fall into. with the horse market the way it is, ANYBODY can get their hands on a horse these days.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

beau159 said:


> I think my pride and my heart is hurt more than anything. My bruises and swollen body parts will heal but I think it's brought me to a realization.


I hope you come to another realization today. I totally get being mad and hurt enough to send the horse to the sale barn and if, with further work things don't change, I wouldn't blame you if you do. I have lived in parts of the country where euthanization wasn't so easy, disposing of the carcass was a nightmare. If that's your case, you almost don't have a choice. 


BUT! He's been a good horse for you for 14 years and now has pain and arthritis. Before you go load him tonight, why don't you bute him to ease the pain of his hip and, since you now know he's going to kick, use a long lunge line & lunge whip instead of the lead rope. That way you can stay out of Harm's way. Work with him like you did your new horse and take the time to get him to walk on calmly. 

Or go have the vet euth him on the spot at the farrier's place. Unless your husband is a very good shot and knows exactly where to shoot the horse, that can be a real traumatic mess. 

And once all this settles down, I'd be looking for a new farrier.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Wow, so glad you were not seriously injured. I can tell you right now what his problem is, he is sore from the trailer ride over to the farrier. Many slants aren't big enough to accommodate large horse's in one compartment. The horse will load & ride ok in it a time or two, then they start having problems because they know the discomfort associated with going in the trailer. It's as simple as that. When you hauled him in a stock, he was fine, then you stuffed him in a too small compartment, he hurt, he told you and you ignored him so he told you again with a kick. I don't know how you dealt with that, but he needs to know a kick at a human is never an acceptable behavior. As Cherie says he is a product of your training, the good & the bad. Horses are pretty honest in their behavior. So you have a few choices here, give him some pain meds, an open stock trailer or a slant with the gate removed so he has enough room and retrain him to load properly OR never haul him again OR end his life humanely. Taking him to an auction will only eat inside of you later on if you have kind of connection with this animal. Good luck with your decision.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## muumi (Oct 17, 2011)

Thanks waresbear and dreamcatcher arabian, you guy always say it just right, the way the rest of us wish we could.
And please know, OP, that none of us want to be insensitive to you... I am terribly sorry you are upset and hurt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

Wow! If a horse kicked like that at me...I don't care what kind of pain he has, he would get the surprise of his life! Check out Clinton Anderson's tv show on getting a horse to get into the trailer, it works and you don't have to lunge him for hours and hours...

Is there anyway you could get your other horse in first to encourage Beau to follow in?


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I have hauled a LOT of horses to farriers. Right now, I haul 20 head (7 or 8 at a time) 30 miles to the horse shoeing school in Ardmore. They used to come her, but when diesel got so high, they quit coming.

I have always hauled any reiners to one of the reining barns at Marietta, more than 45 miles away. Unles you have a full day of work for them, you have to meet them at one of the barns.

30 years ago, I hauled horses 30 miles to a big blacksmith shop at one of the cutting horse barns (Terry Riddle and Freckles Playboy resided there). That farrier ONLY would shoe at his shop and you had to have an appointment at least a month out unless it was an emergency for one of his regular customers.

Part of the reason farriers have gone up so high is because of the ones that have to buy a $40,000.00 truck every few years and have to put $4.00+/ gallon diesel in it, not to mention that they could shoe 2 or 3 more horses while they are running up and down the roads. I sure do not blame any of them that quit driving to less than 6 or 8 horses. 

It costs me $25.00 for the diesel to haul each set of horses I take to the horseshoeing school, but then, they only charge $25.00 per horse, even if the instructor has to shoe one with problems or special shoes. 

Back to this horse -- I don't care if he has pain or has problems. Everyone has to learn the difference between a 'reason' and an 'excuse'. 

ANY & EVERY horse should be trained to just jump into any trailer -- even one that is small or that they have never seen before. NO EXCUSES work for me. It is just part of what any horse should be taught.

Let me tell you a little story: I sold 4 horses to a lady in California several years ago. A wild fire was more than 5 miles from her house and going further away when she went to bed. In the middle of the night, a Deputy Sheriff knocked on her door and told her the wind had changed and she has 10 minutes to get whatever horses she could and get out. She hooked up her trailer and a Sheriffs' Posse member was there with his trailer. The horses she bought from us loaded in the middle of the night in a strange trailer. Two of her other horses would not load and were lost in the fire along with her barn, house and everything she owned.

This same story played out several time here in OK when wild fires burned thousands of acres. Any horse should load in any trailer at any time under any circumstances.


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## wetrain17 (May 25, 2011)

beau159 said:


> I think my pride and my heart is hurt more than anything. My bruises and swollen body parts will heal but I think it's brought me to a realization.
> 
> Now Beau hasn't been on a slant load with rear tack for 4 years, and we had some trouble the last time he did. He's just been hauled in a very large stock trailer otherwise. He's a big horse (16.1 hands) and I have always had difficulty loading him onto the trailer his entire life. I think he's claustraphobic.


Your pride is worth more than your horse's life because you were embarassed at your farrier's place?


Why not try working with him and getting him to load a trailer before sending him off to a meat market? I don't see why this wasn't done before hand when you knew you had to take your horses to the farrier. And I don't mean lunging your horse so get him on the trailer, but actually teaching him that trailers are okay and nothing to be afraid of. This is just irresponsible ownership if you ask me.


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

I totally get that you were ****ed and hurt last night... ive had it happen..and it was my own stupid mistake...

i trained all my horses to load up..all i have to do is swing the rope over their back and point n say "load up" and in they go so i can follow them in.

one night i was lazy and i didnt hook the partition open...so i told my mare "load up" and in she went...well as she went in the partition started swinging closed...and it got stuck in between her barrel and her hip.
needless to say she freaked out and started kicking around, and i ran in to try and get her free....i got kickedin both legs, then she nailed me in the ribs and i flew back into the tack portion....my dad had to drag me out, and then they had to open the emergency door in front and unscrew the partition to get her out.

that was the first time i had gotten seriously kicked before. i was 10.

but i didnt blame the mare....it was my fault...yeah i was ****ed that she kept kicking and kicking when i was just trying to help her...(logic of a 10 yr olds stressed out mind haha).

but shes been my faithful friend for 10 yrs. im not going to condemn her for one action....shes kicked me multiple times since then...none of them out of pure hate, or anger , or just i want to kick you...it was in stressful situations and in her mind it was a defense.

it sounds to me like Beau was trying to tell you something. you knew he had problems with a slant load....16.1 is pretty big, he was probably squished and terrified of having to go back in...and in kicking out at you he was trying to say :hey i dont like this. i dont think this is a good idea. its pretty scary in there, and it hurts me."

im not saying that that is acceptable..it still needs to be corrected...but dont condemn him for kinda going into survival mode, and trying to avoid the pain he associates with the trailer. 

work with him on it. feed him in the trailer. load him up in there, and groom him in it. let him calm down and realize that (if you make changes to fit him more comfortable) its not going to hurt to be in there.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Great post, Cherie! May I ask how you train them to load (I've seen different methods, so curious here)?


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## muumi (Oct 17, 2011)

Great post Roperchick as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Thank you to those who have posted curteous advice and helpful comments. 

I'm still pretty upset about the whole ordeal, although better than last night. I think part of it is I never really grieved when I had to retire him. I had all these high expectations of things I would get to do with him when I finished school finally, and that didn't pan out obviously. I think that’s playing my emotional card right now too. 

Everyone relax. I'm not actually going to run out this weekend and take him to a sale. Never actually said I was going to, just venting that I wouldn't have a problem with it with how I was feeling, especially when I was lying on the ground last night. I will not make a decision until things have settled down and I can look at all my options. 

Let me just make one thing clear that was assumed: *I would not lie and sell any horse dishonestly to anyone as a riding horse that wasn't. Or hide any problem of the horse. Never.* When I said "take him to the sale barn" in my anger, he'd be going for dog food. 

A few points as to where I am coming from. My mom sent her life-long horse to slaughter at the age of 22. Of course that was when she got $700 for him to put toward a new horse and he didn't have to travel to Mexico. So she and my dad are very pro-slaughter, even now. Earlier this year, my mom even suggested the fact that we'll probably have to send Beau and her horse (struggling with laminitis) to slaughter together. (And no one better dare call her heartless.) I grew up on a farm where we bottle fed calves into pets, and then butchered and ate them the next year. It's a cycle of life. It's an animal. That's how my family has operated. My dad would have a fit if we actually paid money to put a horse down, than go get $100 for it at the kill sale. My dad lives by the penny, and it's the only reason they are still farming and not backrupt after all these years like the rest of the neighbors. 

I don’t want to get into word and verbage technicalities, but since apparently I am a heartless disgusting person (which by the way, if you feel that strongly about me, don’t waste your time reading my post), I want to point out that I did not say he was my best friend. I said the way I was feeling last night was as if a best friend had punched me. Call it aftershock or whatever you want to. But that’s the best way I could put it into words. Beau is independent and does his own thing and always has. He’s a horse. A teammate possibly, or a companion; but I don’t consider horses to be friends to humans. That is just my opinion from my background. Either like it, or don’t like it, but I’m entitled to my opinion just like you are entitled to yours. 

Cherie --> I couldn't exactly punish him immediately the first time when I couldn't even stand up straight (doubled over) from the wind getting knocked out of me and the rope jerked out of my hand (I have a lovely hand burn today). Sure, I made him go round and round again after that when I regained my breath, but it wasn't immediate punishment that he should have gotten and I know he should have gotten it. But what am I supposed to do if I can’t??? I certainly couldn't when I was lying on the ground after the second kick. He kicked me at least a couple feet, despite being pretty close to him. Would you be able to jump up after that and go at him? I couldn't. I’m sorry. I did the best I could and I know it wasn’t good enough. 

I agree 100% with the trailer loading because I've heard stories like that about the fires. But he is the only horse I've ever had that I couldn't train to load at a moment's notice. Like I said, he's always been like that, even when he was a colt. Most of the time he'll hop right into a stock trailer, but sometimes I still had to lunge him around a bit to get him on. He’s never been in a horse trailer incident. I’ve always praised him when he loaded and/or gave him a treat on the trailer and made it a pleasant place. He really doesn’t have a reason not to go in, except for the fact that I’ve always struggled with that with him. 

And I take full blame that his training has laxed this year because he’s just been the pasture buddy. I’ve had my hands full enough this year with getting married, graduating from school, starting a new job, my grandma being in and out of the hospital, and getting used to this new horse, that Beau wasn’t exactly a priority. But with this particular loading problem, I am just going to try to get him on my farrier’s trailer calmly tonight, and then he’s not getting on a trailer again until I take him to the vet to get put down (if that is what I decide to do). I honestly thought it was about $1,000 to euthanize a horse from what I’ve been told. I just called an hour ago, and the tech quoted me only about $300 for everything, including disposal (which I am still going to double check that because that just seems too low to me). Yea, maybe it’s heartless and cruel and whatever else people want to call me. But I’m not going to stick time and money (and pain) into a horse that can’t be anything more than a pasture buddy. If you want to take care of him for the next 7 or 8 years, come and get him. Because the place I board at only has room for 2 horses for me, and they are a fantastic retired couple. I have no intentions of leaving there. 


He is on Bute. He has been getting 1 gram of powdered bute every single day since May as prescribed by the vet.


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## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

Shooting/selling/euthanizing a horse that you've had for 14 years because he made a mistake and is hard to put on the trailer? That's like a parent giving their kid up for adoption because they are afraid of the dark. 

There are much better solutions like bute, getting a different farrier, or actually _training_ the horse. It's good that you weren't hurt, but you horse was just telling you that he was in pain. My horse as an arthritic hind end and I can't lunge him with out him kicking. My vet told me it was a way for him to get the weight off his hind end for a second and relieve the pain. Try to get a ramped trailer because it will be so much easier for him to get on and off. Try to be understanding because your horse is in pain and you are making him do something that hurts. *You wouldn't like it if you were in rehab for an injury and the doctor just gave up on you because you said it hurt.*


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

I suspect this horse is hard to load because he was either improperly trained OR riding on a trailer causes him pain in his bum leg. You can probably train him to be better.. but I wonder at the point in that.. he is a gelding and not sound. 

You know.. I may get kicked for this myself.. but here goes. 

Horses are livestock. While I have never sent a horse to an auction barn, I have certainly sold horses. I have also put horses down.. and would again. 

It is nice to think of Old Dobbin out to pasture relaxing his life away.. and so it goes if you have pasture and money to do this for Old Dobbin. In reality, a horse is an expensive ornament and they are not dogs.. or cats.. they are livestock. 

Fact is, as much as YOU love Dobbin it is pretty one sided.. if Dobbin finds another horse to hang with, he will, unlike a good dog or cat, want to hang with the other horse. I have come across horses I sold a few years later and one recognized me and responded. One. 

If I had a 10 year old horse that was lame and a gelding.. and there was still a knacker around.. my FIRST choice would be to have the knacker come and put the horse down while I watched. Take him away for dog food.. it isn't enough money to sell him for slaughter. I watch because I want to know the knacker is putting that horse down (some say they will, take the horse and just drive it to a sale barn for slaughter and pocket the money). 

In this day and age it is hard to find a knacker.. Usually this horse would have to go to the killers at an auction.. or be put down and buried (which is expensive). Hate the idea of the killers (mostly because it is a rough end.. and there is a good bit of hard time suffering before that end.. more than cattle from what I have researched). 

But.. a horse is a lot of animal to bury.. unlikely a job you are going to do with a spade and your back. You need a good size back hoe to bury a horse.. and that service doesn't come cheap or free.

Just sayin'


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Beau, you don't need to defend your decisions to anyone here, it's your horse and your decision. I am with your mom, I will send a horse to the auction and run 'em through by the pound, if that is what I determine is the appropriate action. But I determine that, not someone or someones on a forum. 

I just wanted to encourage you to think about things once you cool down. I would not spend a whole lot of money or training or put myself in Harm's way for a pasture puff. I might for my absolute favorite horse but that's debatable too. 

I'm very pragmatic, as are your parents, and you're right; being very aware of the value of a penny is what will keep your folks farm viable long after the neighbors have all filed bankruptcy or sold out. People who do not live on farms but only live in a house, board their Pookey out and have only 1 horse or 2 horses and no other obligations can afford to be sentimental, people who are trying to make a living on a farm cannot. I know people who think I'm horrible because I process my hens when they quit laying. Oh well, I'm not here to live up to their expectations, neither are you. 

Good Luck!


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## WickedNag (Sep 7, 2010)

Heartless? What else would you call your mom??? I am pro slaughter... but not when it comes to a horse that lives to be 22 and given years of service to a person and than that person sells him off to get the last buck out of his hide. Make a buck rather than spend one. If your mom needed that $700 to buy a new horse maybe she shouldn't have a new horse. Not your horse that you have owned for 13 1/2 years that is now crippled up. Used up by the age of 8.... what a shame. I am not saying you did but most horses that are pushed too hard to young can't handle the stress on the joints, etc and end up lame young. IMO he shouldn't have been started on barrels till he was at least 5.

You have to do what you feel is right but as for me...my faithful friends will not have me turn heartless because of their age or their soundness issues.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Wicked .. these are personal choices. Horses are livestock. I've had horses that I kept well after their usefulness and put them down as old old horses on my property.

I've also had horses that I put down rather quickly for soundness or illness issues .. and one crippled mare I acquired went to auction for $125.00.

Every situation and my life situations were different in these cases.


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## WickedNag (Sep 7, 2010)

Understand that Texas but it sounds to be like both these horses gave years of service and deserve better. IMO! I don't have an issue with slaughter but I do with people dumping their old faithfuls. She of course, as her mother did, will do what she wants. Wonder if she will stick around to watch him be loaded on that over crowded trucK?


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## Kayella (Feb 11, 2012)

I don't have anything against slaughter, either. I was in FFA for years, I ate one of the pigs I raised. I taught him how to load onto the slaughter trailer. If I had a choice, I would have rehomed all of my animals. Out of 10 goats, only 3 went to slaughter because it was required for every single animal shown the the Houston Livestock Show to go to slaughter. It never gets easier. I still have nightmares about leading them to the holding pens, taking off their collar, and walking away to never see them again. It's a horrible thing to go through. I only owned my goats for about 7 months, and I loved them since the day I got them. I just cannot fathom sending a horse I've had for 13 years to slaughter. If he were mine and I had to send him on, I would want to have the decency to give him a comfortable passing. His entire life he's worked for you, I think you should owe him some comfort in his last minutes of life.


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## 4everiding (Jul 3, 2012)

Let your emotions settle, have someone who is really experienced at loading load your horse, bring your horse home and find out what you can do make your horse comfortable until you decide to either get him sound again (by finding a GOOD farrier who specializes in lameness issues, having the vet out to see if any supplements could help him to become servicably sound) or put him down. Don't send your horse to the sale barn...most end up traveling accross the border to suffer a horribly painful death. 

Don't let one bad experience change the way you feel about the horse you have owned and hopefully loved for 13.5 years. You brought him to a new place, with new smells, in a trailer that he wasn't comfortable in, pressed yourself against his butt and pushed, horses are flight animals and he couldn't run so he kicked because he was SCARED. Your horse deserves to be given the chance at a comfortable rest of his life or be euthanized humanely.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

WickedNag said:


> Heartless? What else would you call your mom??? I am pro slaughter... but not when it comes to a horse that lives to be 22 and given years of service to a person and than that person sells him off to get the last buck out of his hide.
> 
> 
> So then what horses should go to slaughter if you are pro-slaughter? I'm interested in hearing your opinion.
> ...


 

I'm not going to comment on you any further, nor will I even read them. You're pulling things out of the air to make up about my life and you have no respect for different opinions. 


I'm glad you can afford to keep ALL the horses you've ever had and you have the facilities to do so. Not everyone can. You shouldn't be so _heartless_ toward other people who can't. 





> Let your emotions settle, have someone who is really experienced at loading load your horse, bring your horse home and find out what you can do make your horse comfortable until you decide to either get him sound again (by finding a GOOD farrier who specializes in lameness issues, having the vet out to see if any supplements could help him to become servicably sound) or put him down.
> 
> My farrier IS good. I'm very happy that I got in with him because he no longer takes new clients and anyone who knows anything around here goes to him. I don't see why Beau's lameness issues have anything to do with the farrier? It's not his feet that are the problem. It's his stifle and hock in his right hind leg.
> 
> ...


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## Jewelsb (May 8, 2012)

I agree with wicked. I'd never send a lifelong companion to slaughter. ESP one that I had made lame. Still can't believe he is lame at only 14. Euthenasia is a much kinder option. Around here it's only about $300 as well including disposal, but my horse will never be put down even if lame unless it's absolutely necessary to keep him from unnecessary pain. I knew when I bought him that I would be paying for him when he is retired. To me that's part of horse ownership that people need to consider.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 4everiding (Jul 3, 2012)

Beau159...hock and stifle issues can very well be a product of a horse's hind feet not being trimmed to an appropriate angle to the way your horse carries weight. My OTTB was very hock and stifle lame acccording to a vet until a good farrier realized how off his hoof angle was to his body type. 

And if you can't afford to have your horse humanely euthanized, you shouldn't own one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

beau goodluck on your decision. i know it wont be easy either way to decide to pts or go to the sale barn, but the cold fact is either way it will bring the same thing just one sooner then the other.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Jewelsb said:


> ESP one that I had made lame. Still can't believe he is lame at only 14.


I still can't believe that I have to defend myself when I am going through this tough time. I was hoping for encouraging advice and constructive criticism, and not getting completely stomped on. 

Why do you think I made my horse lame?

I patterned him when he was 4. No speed. No hard work.

I let him pick the pace when he was 5. We went to about 4 or 5 events the entire year. Pretty light. 

He got into barbed wire fence that fall when he was 5 (remember, my parents raise cattle and cattle come first ... hence we had barbed wire) and cut his left front foot badly. Never thought he'd come out of it. A year later and several vets checks and x-rays, he was declared 100% sound.

Age 7 through 10 we'd go to about 5 to 7 events a year, local stuff no more than 2 hours away. 

The last 4 years he's pretty much sat in my parents pasture while I was in grad school. The last two summers, I took him to 1 or 2 shows. 


Gee. I REALLY over work my horse. I'm such a horrible person for running him into the ground weekend, after weekend, after weekend, since he was 2 years old. Oh wait. *I didn't.* GET OFF ME.


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## Jewelsb (May 8, 2012)

Poor you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Beau .. you DON'T have to defend yourself.

There is nothing you are going to say to make them happy.

It's your decision.


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## corgi (Nov 3, 2009)

Yeah, I don't see any way to come to any consensus here. Some people will always view horses as pets and some people will always see them as livestock. Personally, I see my horse as a lifelong companion but that doesn't mean I think that people who feel differently are wrong. It is all about how we were brought up to view horses. There is no right or wrong and it is a viewpoint that can not easily be changed.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Alright.. I haven't even read past page 2.. I know for a fact that Beau would not sell her horse, send it to sale, shoot it, put him to sleep.. Seriously? Can every single person here say that their horse hasn't kicked them, ever? Even another horse? I've been kicked by mine before..Hickory kicked AT me one single time and we had a come to Jesus meeting.. Nikki kicked me which was completely not entirely her fault.. I got in the middle of her and another horse.. Am I going to sale either of them?? No..

Point being.. Any horse will kick at one time or another..That doesn't mean they're this God awful horse that needs a bullet.. Little harsh assumptions.. The whole time I've "known" Beau (the horse) I've never heard anything about him kicking out or being aggressive.. Personally, I would have had a com to Jesus meeting with my horses in the first ten minutes if they didn't want to load.. By God.. You know how to get in that trailer, you're going to get your *** in it. 

That said.. I don't think she should sell her horse at all.. handle the loading situation with a little more discipline and make him get his butt on the trailer..but I HIGHLY doubt she's going to resort to selling him because he kicked out twice in one day, doing something that he always isn't fond it..Redirect and work on that behavior, not immediately start in on the "get rid of him, put him to sleep, give him a bullet"... Lawd..

Edit..I meant she wouldn't need to sale, send to slaughter, or put a bullet in his head JUST because he kicked.


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## BarrelracingArabian (Mar 31, 2010)

I would like to state she never said she couldnt afford to put him down.... so that was yet another rude assumption. Also beau i would like to say goodluck with him and i hope it all works out .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WickedNag (Sep 7, 2010)

Car is not living and don't think some old rust buckets are breathed new life into them. Those old 34 roadsters didn't get rid of the rust themselves. 

Didn't tell you to keep every horse you ever owned. I certainly have not but I would not send a horse I have owned for 13 1/2 years and lamed up to an auction. 

You don't have to agree with me anymore than I have to agree with you. But if you are ok with what you are doing why stop reading my posts


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

> And if you can't afford to have your horse humanely euthanized, you shouldn't own one.


its not that simple...

we had our gelding euthanized about 6 yrs ago...we trailered him to the vet and he was PTS. thankfully the vet is a family friend, and he took care of the body for us.

we couldnt afford to have him buried on the ranch...his body was taken to the dump...does that make me a horrible person, does that make me and every other person who cant bury their horse curel and should we not be allowed to have them?

i love each and every one of my animals. but im not rich...i dont have a swimming pool full of money...

heads up...on Oahu, youre not even ALLOWED to bury a horse. theres a certain depth you have to get too and the lava rock here prevents that so these horses are hauled off to the dump too.

anybody can afford a bullet and a gun to put their horse down if need be.

dont judge a person on the decision to send the animal to sale, or to slaughter just because they cant dish out thousands of dollars to bury it.


the OP said she just looked into it and its $300 to euthanize so shes looking into it...

how about you hold off on the Noose and let her deal with the situation...putting an animal companion down isnt easy for ANYbody, and condemning her while shes trying to make a decision isnt helping.


Beau, dont worry about defending yourself. dont worry about the judgements, and the ridicule you may face...spend time with your horse, dont stress, and try to make the best decision for both the horse and you.

no we may not know all the details, but we arent entitled to them. its your decision to share more or not.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

corgi said:


> It is all about how we were brought up to view horses. There is no right or wrong and it is a viewpoint that can not easily be changed.


Maybe that's true in horse owning families where one grew up around horses. I didn't & at about the age of 10 I decided myself that horses would be part of my life & how I would view them. Most of my family still doesn't understand.


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

^^ true Natisha but maybe a better way to say that is...everybody has formed their own opinions on horses, and livestock.

heres a little example...

when charlie was 2 he tore the lining on his cannon bone...we took him to the vet, my mom said if its broken and its going to cause him pain, we cant afford to pay thousands to get him healed so if hes beyond repair then we may have to just put him down....i was all against it.. i would have found a way to pay the money for whatever surgery he needed...thankfully it was just the lining and he was healed up after 6 weeks of turn out....


my papa....woulda put him down on the spot...somebody else may have tried to sell him as is (he had no limp and only slight swelling so if not for the swelling we wouldnt even have known he tore it.)

hopefully this all makes sense im just trying to say, in certain situations, different people react...differently. 

so everybody has their own opinions and beliefs about it....i have 3 different views on horses just in my immediate family...my decisions could condemn me with 2 people in my family.


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

To be honest..I doubt I'd have any qualms about putting a horse down or sending it to auction. A horse is livestock, and livestock generally goes to auction when it's ready or done with being used.
I'll assure any of you that a horse I'm using will get the best care I can give it, but livestock has no use sitting in my field, lame, and costing me money. Sure, I absolutely love each of the horses I've ridden for more than a few months, but if it's just costing me money that I could spend on a new partner, it will be sold/shot/auctioned. 

I'm pro-slaughter, but that doesn't make me heartless. What's the difference between a cow and a horse as livestock? Not a **** thing aside from the fact that I can ride the horse. What makes the difference when the horse can't be ridden? Nothing. Some people keep cattle as pets, some people keep horses as pets. BUT, at the end of the day, horses are livestock and depending on one's views, will be treated as livestock. I want a partner that can keep going with me, or maybe even a few partners, I can't go to work with a horse that I can't ride or use as a pack horse.

Now, that's just my opinion and view on the whole slaughter issue presented here. Beau, I don't think of you as heartless at all, and I'll probably be called heartless. Do what you gotta do, and be proud of it. It's your choice, you don't have to explain or defend yourself to anyone, it's not their animal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LikeIke17 (Mar 18, 2011)

I'm going to go with this:

I know the feeling of being kicked. I haven't actually been kicked but one day my mare who hasn't ever tried to kick me, threw a good one at me while I was lunging her. Mind you, I wasn't actually kicked but it came pretty dang close. I was okay and got after her. Doubt she'll ever kick at me again.

On the slaughter/putting down deal. I understand that you have only two spots only. It is up to YOU and you ONLY on what happens to that horse. If you decide to sell him for the money, it's okay. That was your decision. You are the one that lives with that decision. Personally, I don't think I could go to bed knowing I did that. But if you can, that is okay! I certainly am not judging you. Two unrideable horses is a tough break. Personally, I would have my vet put the horse down. I would feel much better knowing he went down with me there and wouldn't ever be in a slaughter trailer with no food or water. No horrible ending. Just at home with me where he knew I loved him. 

Neither option is good, neither option is fun, and neither option is easy. But it's about what YOU think. What you think you can live with and continue on with. 

I wish you good luck. Hang in there. I hope things become clearer to you in the next couple days. If you need someone to talk to, feel free to send me a message. *hugs*


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I think Livestock VS Pet is something that can change with various circumstances. For instance, my folks raised TB's for the track. They were very much livestock and any unsoundness, they went to the sale or daddy took them 'out back' and they didn't return. 

As I got started to grow up, about 10, I got my very own first horse, right off the track because he didn't want to run. That horse was my very best friend growing up until I sold him. Pet. 

Then when I first started out on my carreer path, no horses at all, just a longing and I went and rode anything I could get my hands on (or stood still long enough to get a leg over) for a few years. Then my little sis was 13 and started getting 'distracted'. By then I was riding at a barn and had a regular lesson horse that I rode and loved. 

Sis and I bought Lucky Lad when he was 2 and started him and showed him and owned him for 30 years. I just put him down in the winter of 2011. Spoiled, loved, worshipped, adored! PET, big time. 

In the last 15 years, I'd started breeding, showing, training and selling Arabians. When you have 40 horses and others coming in and out to breed and foal out, mostly they are not pets. They do a job and you're not all that close to them. Back to: Livestock

Now I'm down to 9 horses and I have a mixture of Pet & Livestock horses. I have 3 total PETS, no way no how will these ever be for sale and don't even look at them too long, k? And then I have 3 broodmares, livestock, that if I got the right price, they'd go but not in any rush. I have 3 foals and those 3 are most assuredly for sale and are livestock too. 

Here's the BIG difference between pets & livestock:

My pets will stay here til the end of their days. The pet horses would be given to a cherished friend or family member but not sold by me. They will be euthanized when that time comes. 

My 3 broodies kind of split the line between livestock/pets because they've given me really nice foals and done their 'jobs' very well. I would sell for the right price but *because I have the room,* I don't need to sell them in any hurry. I'm mostly not breeding anymore because of the market, so really, don't need 3 broodies. If the right buyer doesn't come along, they may die of old age here, but if the need arose, I could send them to auction without any qualms. 

The 3 weaners? They're totally livestock, were bred to be sold one way or the other. They are cute, and they are sweet but if they don't sell soon, they'll sell at the auction. I will sell them WITH papers and will send a history with them. And before anyone gets hysterical, the KBs are not interested in younglings, there's no meat on them. 

For the one I just put down, I'm not sure she qualified even as livestock. She was not a nice horse and is the ONLY horse I've ever actively disliked in my whole life. I had advertised her to be sold at the upcoming auction and a trainer contacted me beforehand and wanted her. Unfortunately for me, she got injured and I had to put her down instead of selling her. I am seriously resentful of the $300 I had to spend to get rid of her vs the $300 I would have gotten for her. 

The auction does not automatically mean that the horse will go to the KB, even if they run through by the pound. Our auction has a 'per pound' session and a 'ride through' session, though the horses may not necessarily be ridden. The big difference? Price. Most of the per pound horses sell for more because the bidding is cents/pound and people don't add it up. The ride through? If it goes over $250 you know a family got the horse, under and unless you know the KBs, it's questionable. They run through the per pound horses first, then do a tack sale (OMYGOD I HATE THAT THING, it takes hours!) and then if you're lucky the ride through horses go about 10 p.m. and can last til 3 in the morning. There are KBs there but there are MORE families and cowboys there looking for good turn around horses. It's a valid way to cut down your herd size if you need to. Any horse that is not wanted to be resold is sold "Kill ONLY" and you know where those are going. 

The rescue folks and PETA have done an admirable job of making people scared to death of auctions, I want to say EXCEPT here in OK because I'd say 90% of horses sold are auctioned in some fashion or another. They either go to the local auction or they go to a 'production sale' or a specialized performance sale or a breed sale. Here in OK folks LOVE their auctions and estate sales. 

One of the local KBs also buys up horses at the local auction and gets the good ones broke to ride and then has his own auction to sell them on. So even if the KB gets 'em here, it's not a guarantee that they will go to Canada or Mexico.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I didn't read the whole thread...

I suspect this thread was written out in the moment. I've toyed with the idea of a lot of things when I was mad.

Actually, just yesterday, my three year old reared and bit me in the foot when I asked him to open a gate. He has opened gates every single ride without a problem, and has never once offered to misbehave like THAT. Sure, he'd been a stupid baby horse and been a little ADHD, but not dangerous like that.

Sure, I have zero shame in admitting I was about ready to go inside the house, get a gun, and shoot him. So what? It was a pleasant thought at the time, but obviously since the little brat is out there eating right now I didn't follow through. I got after him and made sure I got his respect and then opened and closed the gate two more times calmly, before going back and calling it quits.

I've had horses kick out at me before. Every single time I snatch their face by the halter and chase their hind end in a circle away from me until they are panting. The entire time I'm thinking of various ways to violently kill the horse, but you'd never know it. As soon as I'm done attacking the hip, I act like nothing happened and usually the horses get the message.

Point of that story is, I don't blame you for wanting to shoot your horse right then. Anyone who hasn't had at least one ride like that has either been riding extremely broke horses or hasn't really ridden. You can feel all those things without acting on it and you can feel it and still do the right thing.

Good luck with Beau. I'm glad you weren't seriously hurt.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

One thing, and this isn't just to OP here. If you have a horse that you know has pain issues, do it a favor and give it 2 gms Bute the night before the shoeing and 2 gms the morning of. That helps immensely all the way around.

Hate you got hurt.

And the lunging is something I've seen people do to get one to load. It always looked like a colossal waste of time to me, so I never tried it. But understand it was a last resort here.


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## DimSum (Mar 28, 2012)

Palomine said:


> One thing, and this isn't just to OP here. If you have a horse that you know has pain issues, do it a favor and give it 2 gms Bute the night before the shoeing and 2 gms the morning of. That helps immensely all the way around.
> 
> Hate you got hurt.


I agree, bute him up or ACE if you have to-talk with your Vet, perhaps he can give you better advice on pain management. It could very well be that trailering (bracing during the ride) then having to balance for the farrier caused him to be in more pain than usual. You could also consider finding a farrier that will come to the house rather than trailer.

I don't agree with all the 'piling on the OP' that has been going on in this thread BTW, equine slaughter isn't the point here.


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## DraftXDressage (Aug 29, 2011)

Iseul said:


> I'm pro-slaughter, but that doesn't make me heartless. What's the difference between a cow and a horse as livestock?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There is a big difference in the United States between the two - the cow doesn't have to take a long ride to Mexico and gets slaughtered in a species-appropriate facility. If we still had horse slaughter in the U.S., I would be more inclined to agree.

I have no issues with euthanizing a lame horse. None at all. But the current options for sending a horse to slaughter in the United States are completely unacceptable - and would be just as unacceptable if we were talking about a cow, a sheep, or a pig.


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peppersgirl (Aug 24, 2012)

you know that even though they are being shipped farther, they same precautions are taken with horses as with cattle to reduce shrinkage ( too much shrinkage= less bottom line money). the people who do this shipping are business people and are very aware of their profit margins. Its really not all days on end in a trailer with no food or water like PETA would love for you to believe. not to say it never happens (there are bad apples in every bunch), and the industry doesnt need some improving, but for the most part, these people are very concientious (sp??) about how these horses are treated on this journey.


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## WickedNag (Sep 7, 2010)

peppersgirl where are you getting your info? I know that in the loose pens at the auctions I go to there is not food or water provided and I have seen them loaded up and they are not going into a nice trailer. They are chased in with cattle prods and crammed in tight. No way for them to get food and water. I am sure it is that way at most sales.... 

I would never sentence my own horse to such a fate. I am pro slaughter but not with it being out of our country.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Posting from mobile so can't quote.

Horse slaughter is once again legal in the US as far as I know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peppersgirl (Aug 24, 2012)

when cattle are run through auctions, the very same thing is done with them. I only have ever seen cattle get food/water at an auction IF the buyer cant pick them up that day. these horses arent going straight on a journey across the border, they are first taken to be fattened in feedlots like cattle. If you watch how these kill buyers operate, they dont buy sick or really lame horses, because they need these horses to transport decently (plus they geld any stallions)< sick/ severly injured horses will be turned away at the border. Also if these Kb are crossing state lines, they have to have all of the appropriate travel papers on these horses like anybody else hauling livestock out of state. My info comes from research i have done on the subject ( i used to be anti slaughter untill i actually educated myself) and also from observing/ talking to kill buyers in action (its amazing the info you can get out of them when talking to them like humans). Now like i said, the industry can definetly use some improving in handling practices and how these horses are hauled and slaughtered(and yes there are careless people who do it), but these people get paid by the pound when the horses are unloaded at the packers (just like with cattle)..and it is NOT profitable for them to allow such shrinkage especially when the horses are being hauled so far.


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## peppersgirl (Aug 24, 2012)

it is legal in the US! its just that Usda funding for it has been slashed, and you cannot operate a plant with out it being usda inspected. And maybe it has changed again, but last i heard we no longer ship to mexico.


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## PaintedFury (Aug 18, 2010)

I hate that you got kicked, and I'm glad that it was only your pride and heart that got hurt. If you decide to keep him, you might want to consider finding a different farrier for him. One that will come to him. I understand your frustration, but am confident that you will make the right decision for both of you.

Good luck and God bless.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WickedNag (Sep 7, 2010)

Cattle's hide is thicker than a horses... ever been to a branding? Ever seen how long a hot iron has to stay on a horse to brand vs a cow? I have a kid who is actually friend's with a kill buyer. I know they can answer all the questions and I bet they talk differently to you than they do to me. 

Not going to convince me that horses are being treated as they should be in transportation or as they should be in feedlots. Plants need to return to operation in the US to save our horses from horrendous miles of travel.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

I didn't have time to read all the responses but the first thing that leapt out of that post to me is '14 year old horse too arthritic to ride'. HOW, how is a 14 year old horse too broken to ride?!! Unless he had some horrible accident I can't see how a horse at only 14 could have been used up quite so thoroughly. 

I am also one to say that a horse is not something to be 'disposed of' when they are no longer valuable. There are extreme cases in which you can no longer care for your loved friend and the best thing is to euthanize or rehome them. But a 14 year old horse who hasn't been in an accident should NOT be crippled. And his owners _owe_ it to him to provide him a solid end of life - whether it be euthanasia or just a retirement field. There are farms where you pay a tiny fee to let your horse live out their life unbothered. I horse who has devoted his life to you and gotten crippled in doing so is not something to be disposed of when he proves not imperfect. Get a bigger trailer if that's the only issue. 

I run a rescue with 17 old, crippled, broken horses. And despite their level of brokeness all are expected to be respectful at all times. They are disciplined just the same as if they were sound, that additional ouch they feel when being backed up or moved out your space just makes them quicker realize they stepped out of bounds. You shouldn't need to lunge him repeatedly to get him on a trailer. Either get a trailer he's comfortable with or just get him comfortable with this one when you have time and no pride to hold on to. 

Considering you'll never ride him again and he won't need to do anything but be respectful have you considered clicker training him? Teach him to touch a target to get a treat, put the target in a trailer. Works EVERY time! I realize a number of people dislike clicker training for a number of reasons but this horse has nothing to loose by trying it.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

OK I read through posts, turned into a horse slaughter debate? xD 

Well here's what I know. Yes it's legal again in the US - but there is only 1 place just about to open in Illinois I think. When horse slaughter was made illegal in the US it was made ONLY illegal for HUMAN CONSUMPTION!!! Not dog food!!! So horses Continued to be slaughtered here in the US for dog food! There is a slaughter plant for dog food in opporation not 3 hours from me, in New Jersey, they have been sighted for a large number of animal abuse claims including some horrible things by the owner (look them up - dog food company in NJ).

The difference is huge between human consumption and pet food. 
Human consumption: horses need to be an appropriate weight, need to be sounds, need to not have had a list of specific medicine (meaning most pet horses could not ever be sold for human consumption as most have been medicated recently before the sale - even OTTBs!!), they need to be Healthy!! They can not give the horses any antibiotics so they will not take an injured animals!! They would never be a grey horse (they have melanomas). They will be an average size horse (ponies have too small a steak) and draft horses are rarely used, only in Japan do they want that type of meat. The horses are regulated and cared for by officials and veterinarians - much like cattle, but specialized.

Dog food: The horse can be in any state of health, could have had any medicine recently, they can even be DEAD! You can sell your euthanized Horse to a dog food plant!! Can you imagine feeding your dog that?!

So when they outlawed horse slaughter in the US they only outlawed Human Consumption. Which they didn't actually outlaw- they just made it so there would be no FDA regulators to ensure safe practices, which made it so slaughter houses couldn't kill horses, because without the FDA stamp they can't sell to humans. SO if a horse were to make it past dog food in the US they were shipped to either Canada or Mexico (God willing they all went to Canada where they were killed quick and humanely)

The only good solution to slaughter houses is to STOP over breeding!!! There are far more horses in this country than we can handle. 14 year old horses are being crippled and disposed of. This isn't ok!

My suggestion on how to fix it. Micro-chips. Canada and many other countries micro-chip all their horses. When the horse arrives at a slaughter plant they scan them all, if they have a chip they call previous owners of the horse - if anyone wants the horse back they can pay a fee and come pick it up. This makes the slaughter company more money and gives a horse a second chance. If no one wants the horse back they would be slaughtered, but at least they had a chance. Think back to that first horse you ever loved that had to be given away/sold or was never yours and you lost track of him/her over the years. Wouldn't you give anything to get them back? If they had a micro chip and you got that phone call for that 1 special horse - wouldn't you save him/her? I would.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

PunksTank said:


> I didn't have time to read all the responses but the first thing that leapt out of that post to me is '14 year old horse too arthritic to ride'. HOW, how is a 14 year old horse too broken to ride?!! Unless he had some horrible accident I can't see how a horse at only 14 could have been used up quite so thoroughly.
> 
> *Clearly the term "all horses are differant" didn't quite get to you. My six year old gets more sore than my 19 year old with the same amount of riding. Same with humans. Some people get prematurely arthritic and sore. Especially a barrel horse like Beau was. He worked hard. Some horses can handle it well into their twenties, others just can't. *
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, this post just really rubbed me wrong for whatever reason. I hope you don't take anything I said personally in the bold there.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Wow I can't believe we're actually starting ANOTHER slaughter debate on a thread about someone being kicked. Come on guys. The OP never said anything about sending Beau to slaughter.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

I agree, it's notmy place to tell her not to sell/euthanise the horse or to buy a bigger trailer. But if she wants to load the horse without lunging him, a bigger trailer or clicker training might help. Maybe I worded things a little too harshly. At that point I hadn't seen any of her follow ups - only her first angry post.

As for being crippled - typically a horse doesn't become so arthritic that they can never be ridden again over night. Most people when they notice a horse becoming stiff or sore when they're only 14 years old would consider taking things quite a bit lighter, not working them so much so that they don't become crippled, or at least last a little longer. The way I see it if you see a horse starting to go down hill, a 6 year old needing injections for example, the work is too much for them. Ease it up a bit, get a horse who can handle the work and sell the one who can't to someone who could use a light riding partner - while the horse is still sound enough to do so. Once they're completely crippled there's not many people who Will take them.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I can't believe we are trying to justify a horse kicking someone. We are blaming his pain -- *never an excuse. *We are blaming the size of the trailer -- *never an excuse. *We are blaming the loading method -- *never an excuse.

*We all need to sit back and look at the problem(s).

1) Horse had never loaded well. This needed to be fixed years ago.

2) Horse is disrespectful or he would not have kicked -- pain or not.

3) Everyone seems to have a lot of problems with the difference between a *reason* and using it for an *excuse*.


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## ChristineNJ (Jan 23, 2010)

Yikes, I would find a farrier that made barn calls!! I have never heard of a farrier that made you come to him (or her)!!


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Cherie said:


> I can't believe we are trying to justify a horse kicking someone. We are blaming his pain -- *never an excuse. *We are blaming the size of the trailer -- *never an excuse. *We are blaming the loading method -- *never an excuse.
> 
> *We all need to sit back and look at the problem(s).
> 
> ...



Don't get me wrong. This absolutely is an unforgiveable act of disrespect that needed to have been taken care of immediately. The first time it showed. But if she won't lunge the horse to get him in the trailer and can't think of any other ways to make this horse get in this trailer, won't use some sort of positive reinforcement skill (like targetting)- then I'm seeing very few options as for how to get a horse on a trailer, besides getting a bigger one. 

Like I said in my follow up - I have a number of very broken rescues and no matter what sort of pain they're in disrespect is never allowed and is always dealt with. Especially something as potentially devastating as a kick!


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## kccjer (Jul 20, 2012)

Ok, I'm NOT going to read all the replies here but for crying out loud people! She isn't selling the horse ONLY because she got kicked! She states toward the bottom of her post that she had planned on selling him in the spring anyway. She doesn't say she IS taking him to the sale, but that she wouldn't have a problem with it AT THIS POINT. (I knew a girl that would get her 4H market animal mad enough to kick her so she wouldn't cry when she sold it....) 

As for "owing it to the animal to keep it forever or put it down"....do any of you have money issues? Seriously? If she can get 3 or 400 out of this horse at a sale, she can afford to put feed, or training or whatever into another horse! I don't know about your area, but it costs over $100 to euthanize a horse in my area. AND THEN....what do you do with the body if you don't own a place where you can bury it???? It's ANOTHER huge expense to call the "used cow dealer" out. So let's spend another $300 or so on an ANIMAL that can't be used anymore? Really? 

Economics has always and will always play a role in our world. There are times when it simply isn't realistic to keep a horse or to put it down or whatever. I'm a little worked up over this right now as we are dealing with this with a friend. She has a horse given to her by a rescue that is breaking down faster than originally thot....he's got extreme down pasterns (should have been put down as a colt to be honest). She would like to sell him in order to put the money into another horse she has for training for her daughter. This horse is IN PAIN. But we're being told....NEVER give up on a horse. Ok, so let's spend more money putting this poor animal thru more pain. Let's spend more money using pain killers on him. Grrrrr....how about we let him go and use the money to make a sound horse a better horse for our little girl??? 

Seriously, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with selling this animal and using the money to improve a SOUND horse. AND, I totally "get" the sentimental issues involved. I forced my dad to bury a horse in the middle of winter because I didn't want her "made into glue". My daughters gelding has arthritis and is aging. He ISN'T going to last forever. Right now (notice I said "now") we have the ability to put him out to pasture when he can't be ridden anymore. BUT...if he's in pain? He'll be put down OR sold to a packer. That's part of life and part of owning an expensive "livestock" type animal.


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## peppersgirl (Aug 24, 2012)

NO WN, i have never been to a branding, and I have no question as to horses having thinner hides than cattle. But when loading a 10, 20, 30 horses of questionable training and temperment onto a trailer, how do you purpose they do it? I dont like the thought of horses being prodded, but I know that sorting sticks can have little affect on a balky horse who is loading into a huge trailer with a bunch of unfamiliar horses, and dont even get me started on those rattle paddles- anyone who has used a rattle paddle can tell you those can cause mass histeria to a group of horses in the best of situations. ( I have used those things on and off horseback when we had cattle and they are sooo much harder to desensitize to than tarps or other various blowy noisy things!). Its better to prod one or two horses to get the herd moving than it is to scare the living ****e out of everybody. 

Do I like it? NO, but I cant blame the these people for the way its done. Nor do I expect them to do it in a way that some one could get hurt (ie. trying to nicly lead every horse into the trailer).

And I just have to say, that if you think this doesnt happen just because the horses are slaughtered here in the states, you would be dillusional.


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## WickedNag (Sep 7, 2010)

Not disillusion. If you read my posts you will see I am pro slaughter... IN the US not shipping them thousands of miles. I by far think that the transportation is the hardest thing about slaughter.


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## peppersgirl (Aug 24, 2012)

ok your kind of fooling me. 

ok so before the plants shut down in texas (the one in illinois had afire and had been closed for a while before this if im correct)..That would mean horses sold at the new holland (PA. i believe) sale were still hauled well over 2,000 miles to dallas. Horses picked up in nevada had roughly a 1,500 mile trip, while horses from up in the northwest area (enumclaw action comes to mind) are in the same boat as the the new holland horses. My point is that these horses STILL had to travel before being exported. The only difference is its a different set of horses traveling. AND an FYI the same amount of horses are still being slaughtered as before, just NOW because of the exportation, we arent seeing the prices per pound we did before.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

ALL slaughter plants closed down in 2007 because the USDA would not inspect the meat so it could not be shipped across state lines or to a foreign country.

After that, a new plant was built in Mexico by the same owners of the old Illinois plant.

There are also plants in Canada.

Slaughter is legal (and always has been) except for state laws in a few states including Texas and Illinois. The way has partially been cleared for inspection again, but so for, it has not been funded in the Federal budget. 

There are American investors that want to open plants in Missouri, Oklahoma, on Indian land and several other states. I do not think anything will happen before the elections in November because no budget is going to be passed that deals with 'little' things. 

The best thing that can happen for horses' lives in general would be many small plants in many states so the glut of horses can go somewhere, values will go up because the 1500 to 2500 mile haul will not be deducted from their value, people will take a lot better care of horses that are worth more and the pressure will not be on all of the rescues and law enforcement agencies. 

The young, healthy horses will be the big winners. With the increased values, people will be more anxious to invest time, money and feed in 'project' horses.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Each state should have its own slaughter yard where owners can take their horses by appointment and be sure they are dealt with humanely - or pay someone to take them who will do the same thing
Its a fact of life - horses get sick, old, people can't afford to keep them, sometimes they are just so difficult it isn't worth the time and cost to fix them - loads of reasons and sometimes finance does come into it so euthanasia at home isn't always an option
Its a hole that needs filling and fast.


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## xJumperx (Feb 19, 2012)

I'm just going to say that I would hate to meet your family. 
I've read the whole thread. 
And I'm appalled.

My horses are more than just 'animals' to me. I do know that that's what they are - but the relationship between my horses and the relationship between my gerbil is a black and white difference. Those horses have given up a lot for me. They have done a lot for me. I owe them that back. We aren't rich. Not by any means. But it becomes less about that when it comes to paying your dues to the horses that love you. Oats? He's 22. He's got arthritis in his hocks as bad as anything. He's unrideable. Do we send him to slaughter? Absa-freaking-loutly not. He's been a good boy. It's our turn to be good owners.


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## StarfireSparrow (Jan 19, 2009)

I have taken the time tonight to read through the whole thread and I have to say how disappointed and taken aback I am at the community. OP came here looking for a sympathetic haven when she was hurt and angry and instead she has found herself backed into a corner and forced to defend not only her heated words but the conjecture of others. 

I was not raised on a farm and in a perfect world I would like to think it possible for people to be able to keep a horse till the natural end of it's days. However this world is not perfect and even though I did not grow up with a farm mentality, I firmly believe that my animals have to earn their keep. Maybe some of you are able to shell out money for an animal that is a lawn ornament but still requires load of expensive upkeep, not everyone can. 

That fact is immaterial in this conversation though. The bottom line is that it is very rude and intolerant to subject someone who is obviously already struggling emotionally with a heavy decision to the kind of attacks to her upbringing and personal beliefs that has been done in this thread. If you have a genuine concern, aside from your morals being offended, offer your questions or comments. Otherwise, perhaps you should keep your judgments to yourself.


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## WickedNag (Sep 7, 2010)

I read the post... got fired up when she said her mother sent her lifelong 22yr old horse to the auction, and got $700 to buy a new horse. And than said not to call her mother heartless. 

Here is the thing, I don't have a problem with slaughter and think there is a need for it and that every state should have a plant. BUT I do think we owe something to the horses we have given a home to for 13 1/2 years and a lifelong 22 yr old. 

I have buried two on our farm. I have sold horses that didn't work out for me. I have never sent a horse I lamed up or that became lame after years of work for me to an auction. I had them euthanized and buried. If I knew how to shoot them I would have done so. My son has shot two of his that were injured and put them out of their misery quickly. One broke his neck coming off the trailer and the other slipped and broke his hip. 

The point is she said not to call her mother heartless. What do you call someone who takes a 22 year old horse to an auction when it is no longer of service to you? 

Is there a place and a need for slaughter? Absolutely... my horses will not go there. If I can't afford to take care of them after we can't use them anymore, I will put them down. I wouldn't even put our last old boy on the trailer to take him to the vet...he would have been very upset with the surroundings. Vet came out... we walked him over to the hole that was dug, I petted him, shed a tear and loved him ... to the very end. 

This was not a debate with me so much over slaughter and am I pro or anti. It was saying that after being a lifelong companion and being shipped off for slaughter shouldn't be determined as heartless. 

There ya go. My last post as no one is going to budge on this anyway. I see the op as someone who uses a horse up and than gets the last penny out of his hide. She sees me as a wickednag. It is all good and we will both move on and do what we do with our horses anyway.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

I am far, far from rich. We run a 15 horse rescue completely off public donations. We do _not_ have any excess of money. 
But we have a 32 year old blind, appaloosa with reoccurring abscesses. He lives his quiet happy life in our barn, enjoying 5 buckets of soaked hay cubes a day, as his broken teeth can't manage real hay. When the weather is perfect and he can totter himself outside he goes out and lays in the sun. That is his second favorite thing. His first favorite thing is to have the little girls who volunteer with us crawling all over him, itching his itchy spots. Over the winter we were unable to find a farrier that had the patience to do his feet, you need to do them a little at a time, moving on to the next hoof when his opposite leg gets too tired, just circling him until they're all done. He began to lay down a lot which was beginning to cause pressure sores. I found a old memory foam mattress and cut sheets of it and sewed it into his blanket. He never got a pressure sore. After a few months we gave up finding a farrier to do it, instead we found a farrier who would tell us how to do it. While he was laying down we fixed up his feet ourselves. From then on he was up and the life of the party again. He greets all our visitors and teaches all our new volunteers how to groom, he lives every day in happiness, but not always total comfort.

We do not euthanize horses who have become 'inconvenient' or used up. We will/do euthanize our horses when they decide they have completed their mission with us and are ready to move on. 

I don't expect other people to be as devoted as us. We are quite extreme, we have 14 other used up horses who will live out their life with us. but do *NOT* tell me you had to get rid of your horse due to money. I am raising 2 horses myself, both rescues, on the income of a riding instructor. I make ends meet by being careful with my money. They don't have the nicest tack, but what they have fits and works. 

And Honestly people, no horse gets completely crippled due to _arthritis_ overnight! That is a slow progressive illness that takes over their joints _slowly_. When you notice this beginning to occur with your horse there are a large number of things you can do to slow the progression. Or if you find your horse developing it and know the horse is only going to get worse and you _know_ you need them for heavy work like _barrel racing_ do the horse a favor and rehome it before it's completely broken. If she had sold that horse before he was completely lame he could have been a school horse, a pony ride pony, a little kids first horse, who knows? He could have moved on to doing something like low level dressage, something that utilizes his joints in a different way so he would last longer. Rather than having a 14 year old horse (he could have had another good 10-15 years) be thrown out to god-knows-where, she should have recognized that she wouldn't want to care for or wouldn't be able to afford the care for a horse she can not use. She should have done right by him before he was completely used up. 

I completely understand if a horse is unable to do the job you depend on them to do that they need a new home. But if a horse is beyond repair there is no place for them to go. If a horse has devoted a chunk of his life to bettering _your_ life, you owe it to them to give them a peaceful end of theirs.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

This thread run it course, and at this point is nothing but going in circles. With that being said I'm closing it...


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