# Caught in your Stirrups



## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

That's gonna leave a mark,,,

I have had it happen once. Luckily my horse imediately stopped and looked at me, as if to ask, "Why are you down there ? My australian saddle is designed so the stirrup leather comes off in that situation. I'll take their word for it as I have no desire to test it.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I question this: "Additionally, proper stirrup placement, on the ball of the foot, instead of jammed "home" clear up to the arch, also lowers the risk of a rider being caught and dragged."

Do you have any evidence? I'm not saying you are wrong, just that I've seen no evidence it is true.

When I ride with my foot homed, it would be tough to make it go any farther forward. The stirrup leather is against my shin, so my foot cannot accelerate to slide thru.

If the stirrup is the correct size, then why is the 'home' position bad?

I notice the cowboys of old used that position exclusively:










_A day herder, Bert Killion, on a knoll overlooking the grazing herd. LS Ranch, Texas_, 1907

Erwin E. Smith Collection Guide | Collection Guide

This is a thread I started not long after joining the forum:

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding/question-stirrup-position-ball-foot-mid-74556/

Today, I ride with the rear of the stirrup about 2-3 inches in front of the heel. To this day, I don't actually know if it helps, hurts, or doesn't matter. I don't lose my stirrup as often...










Like Joe4d, I like the Australian saddle.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I think in western type stirrups, it is pretty common to ride with them all the way to the arch of your foot. I know that's how I ride.

As for myself, I avoid getting hung up by using appropriate footwear...slick soled boots, and I use roping stirrups. They are hard to get hung in and if you do manage it, they are easy to get out of.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

I think we should include training our horses to *several cues for a halt--the weight, the reins and the verbal--and to ground tie.*
Also, we should be schooling our horses without stirrups so that they feel your weight and the stirrups hitting their sides without incident. I like to lunge with a saddle, preferably English, since the stirrups will bang much more than Western stirrups do.
I've had enough really well trained horses and NONE of them ever did what the picture on the original post is doing. Even "Corporal", who parted ways with me when a 5yo--we were delivering a message to the Colonel, riding towards a cannon which he didn't like, _we went left, we went right, we went left again, I went left and he went right_--He stopped and waited for me to remount. Then again, I've been thrown by several horses who couldn't tolerate *anything* on their sides, YOUR legs, stirrups, and rope--you NAME it, it bothered them.
This is the PERFECT time for this post. I don't have an indoor arena, so I train and retrain (review, really) basics with my horses this time of year. This is the best time to reinforce your authority over the little things that your horse hasn't really mastered, so that by next Spring, everything will be smoother.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

The lady who broke Lilly for us spent some time teaching her that a very badly balanced weight in the saddle meant stop and wait for help. That would be a good thing for a horse to think!

Right now, she is working with my spooky mare Mia. They have had a number of lessons now trying to get Mia to understand that a rope that smacks her legs or even gets tangled in them means stop. She isn't there yet, but is making progress. In Mia's case, it is working with her to get over what seems to be one of her worst fears, but it would sure help if someone did get caught in the stirrup.

When I started riding, I wore those athletic riding shoes, in the theory that the stores SAY they are OK for riding. I still have a pair that I use for loafing around, but now I ride in boots. Period. With slick soles. I'd much rather ride in a cowboy hat than with sneakers or those 'riding shoes'!


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

bsms said:


> If the stirrup is the correct size, then why is the 'home' position bad?


Balance.

With your foot 'home', a rider tends to sit as though on a motorcycle with legs stiff instead of balanced on the balls of your feet and thus lighter in the saddle.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

mls said:


> Balance.
> 
> With your foot 'home', a rider tends to sit as though on a motorcycle with legs stiff instead of balanced on the balls of your feet and thus lighter in the saddle.


Nope. Look at the photo of me in my Aussie-style saddle. Whatever my faults may be in that picture, bracing against the stirrups isn't one.

In fact, since I don't worry about losing my stirrups, I ride lighter in the stirrups and have a more relaxed leg.

The old cowboy picture reflects an older style of riding, but they didn't spend 12+ hours days in the saddle with stiff, braced legs.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

bsms said:


> Nope. Look at the photo of me in my Aussie-style saddle. Whatever my faults may be in that picture, bracing against the stirrups isn't one.
> 
> In fact, since I don't worry about losing my stirrups, I ride lighter in the stirrups and have a more relaxed leg.
> 
> The old cowboy picture reflects an older style of riding, but they didn't spend 12+ hours days in the saddle with stiff, braced legs.


In the photo you are doing anything. You aren't rounding a barrel or working a cow. Fence work or trail riding is a lot different.

But since you feel you know the answer, why did you ask?


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Agreed, bracing with your legs is a bad habit that can happen no matter where you keep the stirrup on your foot.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

mls said:


> ...But since you feel you know the answer, why did you ask?


Maybe it was a rhetorical question.

Or maybe it is a question that I don't think has an answer, but I'm willing to listen. And with this being an Internet discussion, I'm free to disagree with answers given.

I can and have braced my leg while the stirrup was on my toe, a few inches back, and on the arch. And I've ridden with a loose leg with my foot in the last two positions - never managed it with the stirrup on my toe.

Polo:




















Cutting:



















Steeplechase:


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

Trails said:


> What do you do to prevent a hang up? I like tapaderos since I’m partial to lace up boots.


Stirrups that have some room for comfort & smooth leather soled boots. I refuse to ride in the fatbaby type soles (though some of the boots are cute) and even have a rule that my lessons students aren't allowed to ride on my property in them either. I generally ride on the ball of my foot but if I'm doing cattle work, I do tend to ride more home. A lot of times (especially first rides) I don't even put my feet in the stirrups, should the need to bail arise I have no worries about getting hung up. English, I have peacock stirrups on both of my saddles. 

My 6 yr old's saddle does have tapaderos on it. They're also nice because they make a little extra noise when her little legs just don't have the reach to make one respond to her leg :lol:


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## Tennessee (Dec 7, 2008)

For one, both of my barrel saddles have breakaway stirrups. I've seen far too many barrel racing accidents to use the typical stirrups. Secondly, I ride with the ball of my foot resting on the stirrup. I'm not sure where you all are getting the idea that putting your foot to the arch is a good idea, but that's a death trap in my opinion. I'm sorry, but I've been around a ton of people, and I've never seen someone who knew what they were doing ride like that. I've seen beginners and overall inexperienced people do that.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

So...are the pictures I linked above pictures of "beginners and overall inexperienced people"?

And if it is a death trap, why? How is one more likely to be caught in the stirrup that way - particularly western, although steeplechase riders and polo players are riding English?

In the link at post 3, I quoted Julie Goodnight:

"Even though I teach students to ride with the stirrup on the ball of the foot, I tend to ride in the home position, particularly when riding Western. It's one of the rare times I will say "Do as I say, not as I do." For most riders, it is safest and most effective to ride with the stirrup on the ball of your foot.

For some disciplines, like cutting, working cow and even reining (my favorites!), riders like to have their foot all the way in the stirrup as an insurance policy against losing the stirrups. When the horse is moving dramatically and performing at high speed, it could be disastrous to lose a stirrup at the wrong moment."

If someone has a reason why it is dangerous, I'd love to know before I get hurt.

Campdrafting


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

I'd think that if a horse falls on you in that position, you're more likely to get your foot twisted and stuck. The only time I was dragged that's how it happened--horse went down on his side, landed on my left leg, my foot turned sideways and my boot jammed. Luckily my foot wasn't terribly far in the stirrup so while my horse jogged 10 yards I clawed at the rocks as they went past and kicked my foot, managing to free myself just as the horse bolted.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

It's instinct for me, too, to always take less stirrup when riding a green horse or one who is acting up. I may barely have my toe in there, because I'd far rather lose a stirrup than get hung should my horse and I part ways.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Riding on the toe is the most dangerous for me, I think, because I constantly reach for the stirrup, going toe down - regardless of stirrup strap length. And if a horse falls on you, then I'd think all bets are off on foot position when the horse gets up..."horse went down on his side...my foot turned sideways and my boot jammed".

Boot (or no boot!), size and shape, size & shape of stirrup, toe up or down - I can see how those would play a factor. I don't see foot depth in the stirrup making a lot of difference.


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## Heelsdown (Jun 5, 2011)

I learn something new everyday about horses and today is no different!

So the "home" position is the term for how the cowboys ride with their feet further in the stirrups? I didn't realize this had a name.

I started out Western and after switching to English, I had a very difficult time keeping only the ball of my foot in the stirrup. My instructor always mentioned it being more dangerous to have your foot too far in.



> I refuse to ride in the fatbaby type soles


Do you mean Ariat Fatbaby? I didn't realize they had a different sole. What is wrong with sole of them? I was eyeing a pair but if they aren't good or safe for riding I don't want to bother. I know a lot of companies have really cute boots that are meant just for fashion but at this point I'd like something functional.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Heels, I ride in Ariat Quickdraws.

Pretty much anything without a smooth sole is dangerous for riding. The problem with the fatbaby soles is that they are thick and textured, much like a tennis shoe. If you were to fall, they will grip the stirrup and end up wedged where you cannot slip loose. After that, your only hope is that either the horse will stop or your foot will come completely out of the boot.

Example of the fatbaby sole to avoid.









They do make fatbaby boots with the slick sole, that would be the ones that you would need to look for VV. They still aren't ideal (leather sole boots are the absolute best), but they are much better than the other option.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

The Fatbabies have a "fatter" sole width, meaning they're wider and more likely to get caught in the stirrup. Probabies and Starbabies are purposefully designed to be stirrup-friendly. Although an alternate thought on the Fatbaby surfaced a while ago after some girl's horse fell on or dumped her (can't recall which) and her boot got stuck....she was being dragged, but the boot was loose enough (due to the way Fatbabies fit) that her entire foot came out of the boot, saving her life.

Bsms, I think having a wider part of your foot in the stirrup increases the risk of it getting caught.

Along with what smrobs said, you've got to factor in your stirrup tread, too. You can probably get by with a textured boot if you've got a slick aluminum or rawhide stirrup, but not one with a rubber grip.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

I think it may be a trade off, having less of your foot in the stirrup decreases the likely hood of getting drug, but having more of your foot in the stirrup decreases the likely hood of falling off in the first place. I think I'llplay the odds and not fall off in the first place. The one bad crash and burn I have had was from riding balls of feet on stirrups and loosing the stirrup at a gallop. Yes I didnt get drug but probably wouldnt have come off before I got my horse stopped if I had had more foot in the stirrup. I am wondering if an Aussi saddles sits you a bit different in relationship to the foot position.
Those slick sole western boots scare me even more, just not a big fan of trying to walk around wearing ice skates.


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## Heelsdown (Jun 5, 2011)

wow good to know. Is this for all disciplines? When I first started riding English, I found that my leather soled boots kept slipping off the iron stirrups. I was riding in an old pair of ropers I had. My trainer said to find somthing with a rubber heel so I bought the Ariat Heritage zip paddock boot. The rubber helped me grib better.

But I can see that the really, really chunky heel like the Fatbaby would really keep you stuck there. It's a shame because they are so cute but right now I don't want to buy boots I can't ride in. I have enough boots for just walking around. 

I mentioned this before in a post, but I watched this video of a woman who was a rodeo rider stuck in her stirrups. What helped her was that she told her horse whoa and he stopped. They video talked about how all horses should know and respond to a verbal whoa in case the day comes you can't physically tell them.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I agree with that. I take the extra time to train all my horses to stop their feet any time I step off...at any gait (never tried it at a run because I would bust my *** but it's solid at w/t/c). That's saved me a long walk more than once when I would have a horse fall with me or get tangled or I come off. I've found it also serves dual purposes on horses that carry beginner or young riders. If they get to going faster than they are ready for, get off balance, and start sliding sideways on the way to falling, the horse will drop gaits slowly back down to the walk so that the rider can either get back into the saddle or, if they do fall, it's a relatively minor one and the horse will stop and wait for them to get back up.

Doing this with my old horse Denny may have saved my Step-mom's life one day. She was riding Denny to check cattle the day after a heavy rain. They started down an embankment that was a bit slick. Denny started to slip and kind of went down on his side. Step-mom, being the novice rider that she was, jumped off in an attempt to get away from him. All she accomplished was slipping underneath him and up against the backs of his front legs. Immediately, he stopped scrambling to get his back feet square and he just froze, sitting there similar to a dog, while she used his legs and the stirrup to drag herself out from underneath him. Once she was safely away, he managed to get his feet again and stood while she got back on.


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## Tennessee (Dec 7, 2008)

bsms said:


> In the link at post 3, I quoted Julie Goodnight:
> 
> "Even though I teach students to ride with the stirrup on the ball of the foot, I tend to ride in the home position, particularly when riding Western. It's one of the rare times I will say "Do as I say, not as I do." For most riders, it is safest and most effective to ride with the stirrup on the ball of your foot.


 
Julie Goodnight has the worst chair seat of any professional rider I've ever seen. I love her techniques, but she is the LAST person I'd ask proper positioning advice from.


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## Trails (Jan 28, 2009)

Wow - I don't think that I expected this degree of interest in the post. It seems that it's generating discussion so that's a good thing.

I believe there were a few questions aimed at me

Placement of the foot in the stirrup - It depends  on what you're doing. If the ball of the foot is on the stirrup it allows your ankle to flex and absorb the shock of the horses motion. 

If you're riding with just your toes on the stirrup then you risk pushing the stirrup off or just losing it depending upon the pressure exerted.

The few times that I've done eventing, and the one time that I tried polo by golly I had my boot shoved as far into the stirrup as I could to keep from losing it due to the speed and sudden changes in direction. I believe that's why you see bronc riders with their feet that far in. Of course the further your boot is in the further it has to come out. Maybe that's why rough stock riders have such a short career span.

All that being said I trail ride and teach equitation to arena riders and I like to see the ball of the the foot on the stirrup. It works for me and my riders. Your mileage may vary.

I've always figured that we each ride our own ride and that whatever works for you is great regardless of the "correctness" of the technique.

Hope this helps to clarify the points I made in the article.

BTW - I ride an aussy as well. Love it. So much lighter than my roping rig and all the dees make it easy to tie camping gear to.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Okay, something I should probably not admit on a horse forum, but I ride in tennis shoes. Really loose ones (because I like the ease of slipping them on and off). My thinking is that if I ever did get in a wreck and my foot got caught in the stirrup, my foot would actually slide out of the shoe. Now of course I never want to test this theory if I can help it, but I really think it would work. I have fallen off before (cleanly) and "thrown my shoe" on a couple of occasions. 

Now maybe that is backwards logic, but I actually feel safer in loose tennis shoes. A boot that holds my ankle in a fixed position, that seems dangerous to me. I ride in a helmet and I am not a daredevil, I just think loose fitting tennis shoes are as least as safe as boots, if not safer. Because I wear size 11 womens (and sometimes 10 mens) tennis shoes, I also prefer oversized stirrups. All the saddles I ride in regularly have either deep ropers or overshoe stirrups. 

I have a friend who says her goal is to get me to ride in boots. But I don't know. To me boots look dangerous. Not to mention I feel like I will slip and break my neck if I have to walk out on the trail.

Oh, and I prefer the balls-of-my-feet riding position. I do loose stirrups sometimes, normally at a walk when I am more relaxed. I don't put much weight in my stirrups at the walk. I use them more for balance than bracing. I don't grip with my legs either. I just sort of balance in a 3-point position on my seat bones. Years ago I used to ride with more weight in my stirrups. Sort of like shock absorbers, but the more I've ridden, the more I've gotten away from that. I think it's because my current saddle lets me have a balanced seat.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Tennessee said:


> ...I've never seen someone who knew what they were doing ride like that. I've seen beginners and overall inexperienced people do that.


Hmm, I suppose it's nice to know that my Dad, who has been riding horses since he could walk and training professionally for 40+ years and has an extensive, successful show career...











Or my brother, who has been cowboying every day of his 30+ years of life...











Or even me, having ridden my entire life and trained horses for the last 10 years or so...










have no idea what we're doing and can be considered "begginners or overall inexperienced riders" because we ride with our feet all the way home. :roll:


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

bsms said:


> _A day herder, Bert Killion, on a knoll overlooking the grazing herd. LS Ranch, Texas_, 1907


I kind of ride like the guy above. Does this riding position have a name? Is it considered a chair seat even if the legs are almost straight? I find myself riding like this quite a lot (minus the homed stirrups) and I don't know if it is good or bad, it's just how I ride. It's like I'm balanced on my pelvis with a fairly straight leg. Legs kind of forward a bit.

Good? Bad? Indifferent riding position? Do any of you guys ride similar? Me and my friend are practically the same height and when she sits in my saddle she can't believe how long my stirrups are.

And to stay on topic, there I am in my tennis shoes. :lol:


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

mls said:


> Balance.
> 
> With your foot 'home', a rider tends to sit as though on a motorcycle with legs stiff instead of balanced on the balls of your feet and thus lighter in the saddle.


:shock: Oh my God. I agree with you, I usually never agree with you...Something is happening weird in the world somewhere! :wink:


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## mvinotime (Mar 5, 2010)

This is such an interesting topic. I just ordered new stirrups as my new barrel saddle came with oxbows which I understand are intended to be ridden in the "home" position which I am just personally not comfortabel with as I have always ridden on the balls of my feet. I measured my boot and then added a 1/2 inch to each side so I ordered my stirrup width one inch wider than my boot which is what I found when researching what is the safest standard. Up until a couple eyars ago I always rode in smooth soled lace ups however I am a die hard fat baby boot wearer now. They are so comfortable, stay nicely on my slick rawhide tread and if I ever was thrown (knock on wood) I can guarantee you that my foot would slip right out of that boot. They way they are shaped, they are so easy to slip off. I just feel much safer in them then I did in my lace ups as they would definetely NOT be slipping off my foot. Just my personal preference.


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

I ride in sneakers 90% of the time (only time i don't is when its so cold that my feet would freeze solid in only sneakers). I ride with the stirrups on the balls of my feet.. and I ride with caged stirrups and have the type of stirrup bars which allow the leather to slide off backwards.



















I have always been taught that your leg position/weight distribution was the important thing versus where the stirrup sits.. in that your weight must be dropping through your heel to keep your leg stable and help your body balance. I think most of the pictures people have shown of people riding with their stirrups 'home' have been riding this way (which is not the same as braced against the stirrup).

I also have to wonder how much of stirrup placement is just what you were taught/habit? As someone who learned to ride "english," I am not sure that I would be immediately comfortable riding with my stirrups home--I would have to relearn my balance with the stirrups in that position. I suspect people who learned to ride "western" probably feel the same way about having the stirrup on the ball of their foot.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

phantomhorse13 said:


> I also have to wonder how much of stirrup placement is just what you were taught/habit? As someone who learned to ride "english," I am not sure that I would be immediately comfortable riding with my stirrups home--I would have to relearn my balance with the stirrups in that position. I suspect people who learned to ride "western" probably feel the same way about having the stirrup on the ball of their foot.


That's a good point Phantom. I have always ridden home because that's what I was taught. On the rare occasion that I _do_ ride on the balls of my feet, I brace more because I feel like I have to keep more pressure on my feet to keep from losing the stirrups.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

trailhorserider said:


> I kind of ride like the guy above. Does this riding position have a name? Is it considered a chair seat even if the legs are almost straight? I find myself riding like this quite a lot (minus the homed stirrups) and I don't know if it is good or bad, it's just how I ride. It's like I'm balanced on my pelvis with a fairly straight leg. Legs kind of forward a bit.
> 
> Good? Bad? Indifferent riding position? Do any of you guys ride similar? Me and my friend are practically the same height and when she sits in my saddle she can't believe how long my stirrups are.
> 
> And to stay on topic, there I am in my tennis shoes. :lol:


Barry had a post some time back about the style of western riding he was taught years ago. He wrote:

_"Years ago I was taught to ride 'Western' by an old, bent bow legged Canadian cowboy who had been involved with horses since he was a kid. In the 1930s he had been a winning rodeo rider. By the time I met him he had formed a Western riding club in Surrey, where anyone who rode horses used the English hunting seat. Kennie's first job with new members was to teach them how to ride Western on his Western schooled horses.

The first lesson was to adjust the stirrups so that the leg was carried almost straight. Enough bend was left in the knee to just lift the butt off the seat of the saddle even at the trot. _ _

The second lesson was to learn to ride with signficant weight carried on the stirrups at all times. 

The third lesson was to move with the horse, if it leant over, then lean with it. 

The rider sat upright and straight using the feet to compensate and resist the Forces of gravity and movement by pressing down on the stirrups - which were almost being used as 'pedals'.

The rider leaned with the horse - if the horse went to the right at speed then the rider would lean over with the horse into the bend._ _

We always were to ride on a loose rein held in one hand only. The bits were all Western lever bits and we were told never to ride collected as the potential for accidental pressure on the horse's jaw was too great._ _

When we trotted - which was usually on level tarmac - we always posted._ _

If the weight was held on the stirrups, then the rider could not rise too high so long as the stirrups had been adjusted correctly for Western. The knee joint took the strain of rising to the trot._ _

The riding technique as described above was regarded as almost heresy by regular English riders trained by the British Horse Society. But it worked._ _
My horse would accept being ridden English or Western. 

_ Read more: http://www.horseforum.com/western-r...otting-male-riders-79035/page4/#ixzz1fxDhEMDK

That sounds different from what you are doing. I sometimes ride like you do, depending on the horse.

If I stick my legs out front some, it is easier for me to keep my heels down. I also can relax an extended leg better on some horses if it goes out front some. My hips are stiff, and getting my leg under by hip is difficult for me.

On my slender Arabians (15.2/900 lbs & 14.3/800 lbs), my legs can hang down now below my hip without tension. On a 15 hand/1200 lb Quarter Horse, it ain't happening. Not with my hips. 

Moving my legs forward some with a wider horse lets me relax them. That allows me to settle in the seat rather than perch above it with my legs squeezing the horse.

I also find my Aussie saddles allow my legs to hang down easier than my western saddle.

If I have to choose between a chair seat with relaxed legs and heels down, and a 'correct' seat with tight, tense legs and heels level, I think it is a no-brainer.

I'm not experienced, but look at the pictures smrobs posted. Starting at 50, I'm jealous of her family. I'd love to look in the saddle like her Dad or brother...or have her position, although I think I'm content to stay a male! 

If that is a chair position, bring me a chair! Darn, but I get jealous of those who can really ride...learning at 50+ is a challenge!


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