# a good example of why you should wear a helmet



## dlpark2 (Mar 6, 2013)

Teenage Kicked in Head By Horse After Falling While Jumping

Although, I don't think she should of been jumping, on frozen ground, in the cold, but I am glad she was smart enough to wear a helmet. Imagine what would of happened if she had not had a helmet.


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## wetrain17 (May 25, 2011)

::sigh, trying to be polite:: She's very lucky.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

That horse would be seeing a bullet, that was totally deliberate.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

I saw this this morning. The owner swears it was an accident and the horse is a total sweetheart and it just refused and she fell off and it kicked out in fear.

I translate it to - "I am a moron and my horse knows it."


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## dlpark2 (Mar 6, 2013)

NBEventer said:


> I saw this this morning. The owner swears it was an accident and the horse is a total sweetheart and it just refused and she fell off and it kicked out in fear.
> 
> I translate it to - "I am a moron and my horse knows it."


Hahahaha! I so agree!


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I'd think a blow to the head like that would knock some sense into people, apparently not. 
Hoping she's ok.


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## Hang on Fi (Sep 22, 2007)

Great day what a kick! She is lucky for that helmet of hers.


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## cakemom (Jul 4, 2010)

We had a young girl die here last month when her horse fell in a freak accident and she hit her head. 
Oddly enough my daughter has a concussion right now, years wearing a helmet riding and some punk kid causes her to fall in PE and hit her head on the wall and she's injured. I told her she has to wear a helmet to PE now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

I have to agree with Alex. That horse would've been shot. That was no "random kick because the rider fell and spooked the horse", that horse completely swung his hind around and kicked at her.

I also have a feeling that isn't the first time that horse has kicked at a person.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

AlexS said:


> That horse would be seeing a bullet, that was totally deliberate.


COMPLETELY AGREE WITH YOU! My husband watched the video with me, and the first thing out of his mouth was "I'd have shot that horse". LOL.

Completely and utterly intentional. He aimed right at her head.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Iseul said:


> I have to agree with Alex. That horse would've been shot. That was no "random kick because the rider fell and spooked the horse", that horse completely swung his hind around and kicked at her.
> 
> I also have a feeling that isn't the first time that horse has kicked at a person.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh believe me, I completely agree with you. There is nothing accidental about that kick. It was a very well aimed kick.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

NBEventer said:


> Oh believe me, I completely agree with you. There is nothing accidental about that kick. It was a very well aimed kick.


Yep. I don't know how the owner could justify it. The horse wasn't scared, he took deliberate aim and let fly. 

He'd have been off to the rendering company the same afternoon if he was one of mine.


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## Samstead (Dec 13, 2011)

100% intentional. He swung out, aimed and kicked and NOT out of fear.


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## dlpark2 (Mar 6, 2013)

Don't get me wrong that that kick wasn't intentional from the horse, but I can't say as I blame the horse, although, I probably would of shot him myself. That teen is **** lucky she had a helmet on though. He definately knew what he was aiming for, but I think the teen was a moron for trying to jump in the cold, on frozen ground, without a saddle, while someone was filming. I wish there was more video, because I sure that there were signs from the horse that this was going to occur. If I was the horse, I would of kicked her too for making me jump in the cold on frozen ground.


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## GamingGrrl (Jan 16, 2013)

That horse will make a nice bottle of glue, or maybe a tasty lasagna. Sure as hell wouldn't be standing in my pasture munching on my money with an attitude like that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EmsTNWalkers (Mar 10, 2013)

The FIRST thing I thought when I saw that video was ...How the heck does this girl say she was accidentally kicked?! She got nailed by that horse, he knew exactly what he was doing! Notice how his feet hit the ground first and then he kicked out, as he was looking behind him even. I'm glad she's ok, but it's very unfortunate that she doesn't understand her horse well enough to know that he intended to kick her! If my horse ever kicked me like that he/she better hope it goes ahead and kills me!


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

EmsTNWalkers said:


> The FIRST thing I thought when I saw that video was ...How the heck does this girl say she was accidentally kicked?! She got nailed by that horse, he knew exactly what he was doing! Notice how his feet hit the ground first and then he kicked out, as he was looking behind him even. I'm glad she's ok, but it's very unfortunate that she doesn't understand her horse well enough to know that he intended to kick her! If my horse ever kicked me like that he/she better hope it goes ahead and kills me!


 
You nailed it in this post.

Yes, that horse meant to get her, and did.

And I would be willing to bet that horse is spoiled brat all the time, and she doesn't know it.

Another one of the "oh we have an amazing bond" crowd.

If that is bonding? I'll take disinterested thank you.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

The horse definitely aimed that kick at her and meant it but so said - how much of that behavior was caused by her own actions - playing about with a horse like its 'toy', generally ****ing it off to the point that it wanted to get its own back, not respecting how dangerous even the most reliable ones can be if the mood takes them.
The horse gets the blame for what might have been the riders fault.
Did it have such a good nature that she pushed it to extremes?
Its why I get so angry with these idiots who think its OK to take silly risks to prove how great they are, how much their horse trusts them, crawling under horses, running around with them like they're an oversized dog, playing stupid games and then it all goes pear shaped and the horse is shot for being dangerous.


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## dlpark2 (Mar 6, 2013)

EmsTNWalkers said:


> The FIRST thing I thought when I saw that video was ...How the heck does this girl say she was accidentally kicked?! She got nailed by that horse, he knew exactly what he was doing! Notice how his feet hit the ground first and then he kicked out, as he was looking behind him even. I'm glad she's ok, but it's very unfortunate that she doesn't understand her horse well enough to know that he intended to kick her! If my horse ever kicked me like that he/she better hope it goes ahead and kills me!


I completely agree. She probably thinks that they have a bond. No, he knew what he was doing. Obviously she doesn't understand her horse as well as she thought she did. There is no way that horse would be walking if he intentionally did that to me. Although, as I stated before I can't blame him for doing it by the looks of the video. I am sure he gave her plenty of warning signs before it happend, but I still wouldn't own a horse with that kind of killer attitude. My bossy mare that was given to me because she was a "kicker" knows better then to kick out of me, cause she is going to get it right across her rump with the carrot stick if she even thinks about raising a hoof to me. The first month I had her and she got whacked a couple of times, she hasn't raised a hoof since.


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## dlpark2 (Mar 6, 2013)

jaydee said:


> The horse definitely aimed that kick at her and meant it but so said - how much of that behavior was caused by her own actions - playing about with a horse like its 'toy', generally ****ing it off to the point that it wanted to get its own back, not respecting how dangerous even the most reliable ones can be if the mood takes them.
> The horse gets the blame for what might have been the riders fault.
> Did it have such a good nature that she pushed it to extremes?
> Its why I get so angry with these idiots who think its OK to take silly risks to prove how great they are, how much their horse trusts them, crawling under horses, running around with them like they're an oversized dog, playing stupid games and then it all goes pear shaped and the horse is shot for being dangerous.


 That is why I wish there was more video. I am sure that horse gave her plenty of warning signs telling her to back off. She is only 18, and I remember when I was 18, I did some pretty stupid stunts on my horse. Especially since she had a friend "filming" it. I just don't see where this kick was accidental though, that horse aimed for her head and she is lucky to be alive. I would never be able to trust that horse again, not would I ever be able to sell him to someone for fear he would do the same thing, so it would be better that if he was put down.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Looking at her FB photos...this is a spoiled horse that she has taught extremely dangerous tricks to and she also takes major chances with her other horses.

There is such a thing as an accident...and then there is stupid.

This was stupid, bareback and out in snow, and on a horse that acts like the village idiot rearing and such?

He'll get her one day, and won't be long.


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## OutOfTheLoop (Apr 1, 2012)

Aww my BO' food aggressive horse whom I let my guard down one day on kicked me in the hand because I was switching food buckets, but it was just an accident, he didn't mean to hurt me. I call Bull
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dlpark2 (Mar 6, 2013)

Palomine said:


> Looking at her FB photos...this is a spoiled horse that she has taught extremely dangerous tricks to and she also takes major chances with her other horses.
> 
> There is such a thing as an accident...and then there is stupid.
> 
> ...


 So basically, she is a stupid teenage girl who likes to show off and do stuff that she shouldn't be doing which is going to put herself and other, including her horses in jeorpardy.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

THIS... Is a good example of why training should be left to the professionals.


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

OutOfTheLoop said:


> Aww my BO' food aggressive horse whom I let my guard down one day on kicked me in the hand because I was switching food buckets, but it was just an accident, he didn't mean to hurt me. I call Bull
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You call Bull on what exactly? I'm a little confused...


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Palomine said:


> Looking at her FB photos...this is a spoiled horse that she has taught extremely dangerous tricks to and she also takes major chances with her other horses.


I was just looking at that too.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Showed that to my non-horsey boyfriend with no explanation and didn't let him read the article. He said (and I quote): "That was totally intentional. That horse planted his feet, swung his butt around toward her, aimed, then kicked her in the head." 

And am I the only one that is seeing that there's a jump BEHIND the horse, like he already completed the jump, not in front of him, like he refused it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

The only bonding that horse would be doing.....is bonding the sole of my shoes together as glue........I'm thankful that in this life that I believe every horse I've put my hands on has either remained 'normal' or has improved.....I would be so ashamed of myself if I turned a horse into a nasty piece of work like this one is........

I think I would've run after that horse, got a hold of it and kicked it right back! Hard!


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## Casey02 (Sep 20, 2011)

Oh my gosh... and after the kick...its almost like the horse walked off like "I got her "


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## wetrain17 (May 25, 2011)

I think they need to change the headline to this story to "this is what happens when you make excuses for your horse" Emphasizing the helmet won't solve the root of the problem


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## EmsTNWalkers (Mar 10, 2013)

Just wait, before you know it she will be wearing a white helmet instead.


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## LouieThePalomino (Dec 15, 2012)

Rofl I bet she was tring to act like these people here: Troublemaker - YouTube
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hang on Fi (Sep 22, 2007)

I can't say anything about teaching a horse to rear... I was guilty of teaching my Andalusian x Walker to... Then again I was the only one who knew her cue and she never went above knee level in height. 

No wonder the horse clocked her in the head. Sounds like her horse world is full of rainbows and butterflies and her ponies are her best-est friends *snort*.


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## dlpark2 (Mar 6, 2013)

Hang on Fi said:


> I can't say anything about teaching a horse to rear... I was guilty of teaching my Andalusian x Walker to... Then again I was the only one who knew her cue and she never went above knee level in height.
> 
> No wonder the horse clocked her in the head. Sounds like her horse world is full of rainbows and butterflies and her ponies are her best-est friends *snort*.


No, these are complete rears...full upright...often with her on their backs...one day one of them is gonna lose footing and go over on her.


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## Hang on Fi (Sep 22, 2007)

I'm amused at some of the comments on her pictures that are extremely favorable to her, such as ones of her laying on his neck, legs completely extended, helmetless and bridleless and they're telling her what excellent form she has. I think I missed the memo where that was a "good" thing... 

I have no words for this.


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## dlpark2 (Mar 6, 2013)

Hang on Fi said:


> I'm amused at some of the comments on her pictures that are extremely favorable to her, such as ones of her laying on his neck, legs completely extended, helmetless and bridleless and they're telling her what excellent form she has. I think I missed the memo where that was a "good" thing...
> 
> I have no words for this.


You used the correct word...idiocy! Didn't know that that type of riding was scored in any equestion sport? Is there a sport I am not familar with?


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

I'd sure like to know where her mother is in all of this. If a horse intentionally kicked my daughter like that, I'd kill it. This girl is an idiot and there are certainly things that led up to this. However, I could never trust the horse again. 

That makes me think of a story I read on this forum about a woman who was kicked to death in her trailer by her own horse. The horse was known to kick. It's not something I want to chance myself, much less with one of my daughters.


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## GallopingGuitarist (Jan 8, 2013)

Ummm, yeah.. does she think that falling off is funny? Cause that's what it looks like. Another one of the clips from the same video of her getting kicked, she fell off and he lashed out at her and missed. 
In the comments on the rearing pictures on FB, it sounded like the rear was because she hadn't 'worked him properly' for 2 months so that is how he is. Wow! My horse hasn't been 'worked properly' since last May. I consider him a bit of a jerk, I hopped on bareback at Easter weekend. We kept it to a walk, but the only thing he did was be a bit pushy with his bit (snaffle). If he even thought of pulling a rear, I'd be on the ground working the snot out of him. 

Yep, they have an incredible bond. Somehow it involves her head and his hoof. A weird way to bond IMO.


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## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

A good example of why you should wear a helmet?
More like, a good example of why you should not be riding at all.

Sorry to say, I haven't worn a helmet in eight years and have had no incidents, and this doesn't encourage me to wear one yet. HOWEVER, this does encourage me to seek advice from a professional when I have problems with my horse, and to not do cheap tricks for the sake of ego.

I'm sorry, but snow + bareback + poor training = what do you think was going to happen? 

Glad she was wearing a helmet. Sad her brain is already damaged.


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## dlpark2 (Mar 6, 2013)

GallopingGuitarist said:


> Ummm, yeah.. does she think that falling off is funny? Cause that's what it looks like. Another one of the clips from the same video of her getting kicked, she fell off and he lashed out at her and missed.
> In the comments on the rearing pictures on FB, it sounded like the rear was because she hadn't 'worked him properly' for 2 months so that is how he is. Wow! My horse hasn't been 'worked properly' since last May. I consider him a bit of a jerk, I hopped on bareback at Easter weekend. We kept it to a walk, but the only thing he did was be a bit pushy with his bit (snaffle). If he even thought of pulling a rear, I'd be on the ground working the snot out of him.
> 
> Yep, they have an incredible bond. Somehow it involves her head and his hoof. A weird way to bond IMO.


I have a bossy, pushy mare that had been a "lawn ornament" for 8 years, after a week of working on some refresher ground work, I hopped on her back, got about 2 bucks hops and she did fine....not worked properly in 2 months caused rearing....I scream BS!!


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## dlpark2 (Mar 6, 2013)

oh vair oh said:


> A good example of why you should wear a helmet?
> More like, a good example of why you should not be riding at all.
> 
> Sorry to say, I haven't worn a helmet in eight years and have had no incidents, and this doesn't encourage me to wear one yet. HOWEVER, this does encourage me to seek advice from a professional when I have problems with my horse, and to not do cheap tricks for the sake of ego.
> ...


I agree...wish I could go back and change the title to When an idiot rides horses!


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## GallopingGuitarist (Jan 8, 2013)

Well look at this way... I can break a horse and ride it for the first time... It had better not try a rear. That is way to dangerous in my books! 
When I was young and dumb (well, I still am), and riding my first horse without experience, I pulled her into a rear (not intentionally) and flipped her onto me. I should have been killed, instead of walking away with a bruised hip and thigh. Bucking I can work through with a new horse, rearing is never an option. Mind you, I don't push them so hard that they think they need to rear to escape.


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## EmsTNWalkers (Mar 10, 2013)

IMO rearing should be curbed from the ground up, meaning it's a lesson that should be taught/learned before ever being in the saddle. It is never acceptable, period. I'm willing to bet this horse was perfectly fine before she started riding it, but she has taught and instilled such bad manners that he, like most any horse will, has learned that he can do what he wants and get away with it.


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## BarrelracingArabian (Mar 31, 2010)

I have to say my little guy when he gets his little herd bound ticks, well when i first bought him he had no forward and was a wreck, he would do little rears of refusal to go forward but he hasn't done that since the first 3 weeks i had him and is becoming less and less herd bound every time we ride.

This girl needs to step back and evaluate her situation, she was lucky this time but next time he could nail her square in the face/neck/back etc that isn't protected by her helmet and seriously injure or kill her. I don't feel bad for her in the least.


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## Misty'sGirl (Oct 22, 2007)

Hmm... I wonder, if his kick had been a couple inches lower and got her square in the face, shattering her nose, jaw, kicking out her teeth... would she still claim it was an "accident" and that they have a fluffy happy bond? One of these days she's going to be seriously hurt. Sadly she'll probably blame the horse instead of realising its her own fault! (Not that the horse wasn't at fault, but she's probably caused him to get to that point).


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Not sure how this means "The helmet saved my life". It looks to me like the horse missed the helmet. But her risks in riding have nothing to do with helmets or not...


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Where are you guys seeing all these photos?
She's extremely lucky to be alive and intact and not a vegetable. That horse deliberately kicked her, definitely. My rage sure peaked when I saw him stop, swing over, and take aim...


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## tbcrazy (Sep 27, 2012)

I would imagine she already has multiple TBI's (traumatic brain injuries), whether she knows it or not; the amount of impact her head has had with the ground in very disturbing. I teach horseback riding to people with disabilities, physical and cognitive, I was flinching the whole video :/ . A good example of someone thinking that the more they fall off, the more experienced they are because they get back on. I agree with everyone else, where the heck are the parents? They'll be the one taking care of her the day she gets a spinal cord injury and winds up in a wheelchair, or worse...


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## tbcrazy (Sep 27, 2012)

Palomine said:


> Oh, but horses only kick out of FEAR or SHOCK! Never out of aggression.


No, never. Because they love us and we love them. And if something loves us it would NEVER EVER hurt us. He was probably just really happy and didn't see her there.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

If this were my kid, she'd be grounded with a sore backside and that horse would be gone. 
What blows my mind is that she encourages the kicking, the bucking, the bolting, the rearing - she's training her own death machine.


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## TheAQHAGirl (Aug 10, 2012)

I'd say that he needs a new rider...One who could give him a good smack upside the head once in a while and teach him some **** respect. Honestly people like her are the reason why hospitals are up and running and innocent people getting hurt.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

amp23 said:


> ... Someone needs to knock some sense into this girl...


The horse did its best! If he can't kick some sense into her, I doubt anyone else will be able!

BTW - I removed an earlier image, but she was nailed by the edge of the hoof right at the top of the eyebrow.


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## amp23 (Jan 6, 2011)

bsms said:


> The horse did its best! If he can't kick some sense into her, I doubt anyone else will be able!
> 
> BTW - I removed an earlier image, but she was nailed by the edge of the hoof right at the top of the eyebrow.


Lol yes. But I mean maybe a parent?! I'm 19 and out of the house and my parents still look out for me. Her parents should be trying to keep her out of these dangerous situations..


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## 5Bijou5 (Mar 16, 2013)

This girl is an idiot. I totally see that. BUT I am so OFFENDED that so many of you are talking about killing the horse! I thought we were all horse lovers, hence the horse forum... yup, he has issues. and attitude. and training issues. BUT seriously?! I know some of you aren't being serious but I am actually horrified you would joke about killing a horse. I am kind of new to the forums and I am scared to come back... this is awful.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Bijou, no one is joking about killing the horse--we're completely serious. We are definitely a community of horse lovers here. However, this is a downright dangerous animal that will seriously injure someone else in the future. He's already proven that he will. There are just too many good horses in the world to risk time and safety on horses like these. That was a very deliberate and well-aimed kick to the head, NOT an accident. The horse is dangerous.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I wouldn't hesitate to kill a horse that was vicious. I don't think that horse is vicious - just badly trained and ridden. If someone treated Mia (my Arabian mare) the way that horse is, I could imagine her trying to take out her rider. 

As it is, the one time I came off her, I shouted her name and she ran back to me so fast I thought I was going to be trampled. Then she stuck her head next to me and waited for me to make the bad thing go away...while I used her for support to help me limp home.

But Mia has her own sense of right and wrong, and could probably be made into a mean horse by someone she thought was unfair. I do believe some horses are just mean, and those I would kill without any hesitation. I also wouldn't go too far in trying to retrain a horse who was dangerous, because a horse can kill someone too easily.


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## dlpark2 (Mar 6, 2013)

5Bijou5 said:


> This girl is an idiot. I totally see that. BUT I am so OFFENDED that so many of you are talking about killing the horse! I thought we were all horse lovers, hence the horse forum... yup, he has issues. and attitude. and training issues. BUT seriously?! I know some of you aren't being serious but I am actually horrified you would joke about killing a horse. I am kind of new to the forums and I am scared to come back... this is awful.


 Bijou, do you actually think that horse can be untrained after he deliberately aimed and kicked at that girl. What makes it worse, if he had killed her and been put up for sale, he could kills someone else. This girl is doing nothing, but training dangerous horses. I only stated on this forum a little over a month ago and have found that there everyone on here is a horse lover, but it also comes to a point where the horse has been overly let go. I know if he had done that to me, that I would never be able to trust him again and there is no way I would put that problem onto someone else.


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## dlpark2 (Mar 6, 2013)

In a way, I see this as a form of animal abuse. She is pushing her horses to the limits and is going to wind up in a wheelchair. Hopefully someone will have a sit down and talk to her about this. I know I was a wild child at 18 too, but it isn't just her life she is endangering, but the lives of her horses.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

5Bijou5 said:


> This girl is an idiot. I totally see that. BUT I am so OFFENDED that so many of you are talking about killing the horse! I thought we were all horse lovers, hence the horse forum... yup, he has issues. and attitude. and training issues. BUT seriously?! I know some of you aren't being serious but I am actually horrified you would joke about killing a horse. I am kind of new to the forums and I am scared to come back... this is awful.



If you had a family dog that chewed your childs face off, would you put the dog to sleep?


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Speed Racer said:


> Yep. I don't know how the owner could justify it. The horse wasn't scared, he took deliberate aim and let fly.
> 
> He'd have been off to the rendering company the same afternoon if he was one of mine.


It's kind of like a man, you know how sometimes they think with the "wrong head"? She's thinking with her heart so in her hearts mind... It was an accident.:-(


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

farmpony84 said:


> It's kind of like a man, you know how sometimes they think with the "wrong head"? She's thinking with her heart so in her hearts mind... It was an accident.:-(


If it were a one off, I could maybe agree.


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

> This girl is an idiot. I totally see that. BUT I am so OFFENDED that so many of you are talking about killing the horse! I thought we were all horse lovers, hence the horse forum... yup, he has issues. And attitude. And training issues. BUT seriously?! I know some of you aren't being serious but I am actually horrified you would joke about killing a horse. I am kind of new to the forums and I am scared to come back... this is awful.


I wasn't joking when I said I would kill it. I could never trust the horse again and certainly wouldn't want it in my pasture. I couldn't sell it to someone knowing that it already tried to take someones head off. I feel that there would be no other choice.


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## EmsTNWalkers (Mar 10, 2013)

We are horse lovers here, but part of loving something is also realizing when to let go. That horse took the time to deliberately kick her in the head. That took thought and will to do so. He is dangerous and will no doubt lash out the next chance he has. She is not experienced enough to handle a horse like this and has no business owning or riding one. Around here these are the kinds of horses you find at the auctions going through the pound sale, and rightly so. It's possible for this horse to be "retrained" but it will require extensive professional training, and even then he would still be considered a risk in my book. His butt would be carted off to the next sale if it were me.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I had a friend that ALWAYS used a helmet AND a saddle when she rode and then one day she decided to get on bareback and was just having a blast cantering around the ring. She slid off the horse and it started bucking, and clipped her. That one really was an accident on the horses part. She broke I all kinds of bones in her face and spent 7 hours in surgery. It really does happen accidentally but I watched that video... over and over again and I honestly, whith out being mean, can not see the _accidental_ kick... but I do see a purposefully well aimed kick....


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## 5Bijou5 (Mar 16, 2013)

AlexS said:


> If you had a family dog that chewed your childs face off, would you put the dog to sleep?


I have been attacked by three family dogs in my life. Got bit on the face all three times. The first was my grandparents spaniel, the second was our first dog a rescue yorkie with food aggression, and the third was our second dog. 
Every time I admit it was my fault, we as the more intelligent race have to act first and prevent these things. it is ALWAYS our fault. I would never consider putting any of those dogs down.


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## EmsTNWalkers (Mar 10, 2013)

5Bijou5 said:


> I have been attacked by three family dogs in my life. Got bit on the face all three times. The first was my grandparents spaniel, the second was our first dog a rescue yorkie with food aggression, and the third was our second dog.
> Every time I admit it was my fault, we as the more intelligent race have to act first and prevent these things. it is ALWAYS our fault. I would never consider putting any of those dogs down.



:shock::shock::shock:.......


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

5Bijou5 said:


> This girl is an idiot. I totally see that. BUT I am so OFFENDED that so many of you are talking about killing the horse! I thought we were all horse lovers, hence the horse forum... yup, he has issues. and attitude. and training issues. BUT seriously?! I know some of you aren't being serious but I am actually horrified you would joke about killing a horse. I am kind of new to the forums and I am scared to come back... this is awful.


I'm thinking in the moment after a horse dirty kicked me in the head......yes I'd be in in a mood to pull no punches......a horse kicking someone in the head is a very serious offense.......however after watching her videos I actually am now starting to sympathize with the horse......he's been harassed beyond what's tolerable......


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## TheAQHAGirl (Aug 10, 2012)

I'm just throwing this out there...In the end when the horse does kill the girl, most likely the horse will be sold to a meat buyer. Seen it happen too many times. And its the same thing, horse gets spoiled rotten and doesn't know what respect means.


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## dlpark2 (Mar 6, 2013)

Muppetgirl said:


> I'm thinking in the moment after a horse dirty kicked me in the head......yes I'd be in in a mood to pull no punches......a horse kicking someone in the head is a very serious offense.......however after watching her videos I actually am now starting to sympathize with the horse......he's been harassed beyond what's tolerable......


 I do too, but I still would never be able to trust him again....I am really starting to believe she is abusing all her horses...she is pushing them way to hard.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

dlpark2 said:


> I do too, but I still would never be able to trust him again....I am really starting to believe she is abusing all her horses...she is pushing them way to hard.


Oh yes.....no trust there......he probably would've been a nice horse without all of her interference.....sad isn't it.....I certainly couldn't trust him, that move was dirty.....


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## dlpark2 (Mar 6, 2013)

I have seen horses like that sold to meat buyers too...it is always the owners fault cause they ruined a good horse. My husband and I are in the process of rehabilitating an abused rescue right now....if he ever kicked me like that he would be gone before the g left my mouth...luckily he isn't a kicker, just head shy and fearful of his own shadow.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

5Bijou5 said:


> ...it is ALWAYS our fault. I would never consider putting any of those dogs down.


Strongly disagree. I've owned a lot of dogs, but had one I got rid of because she was mean. She was treated like all the other dogs I've owned, but she was a mean puppy and she never changed.

It wasn't my fault. I've got a Border Collie sitting next to me who will allow little kids to stand on his head. But some dogs are mean. Not often, and I've only had one in 54 years of owning multiple dogs. But they exist.

Now give that dog 1,000 lbs of muscle, and ask what you do if it turns out mean?


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

5Bijou5 said:


> I have been attacked by three family dogs in my life. Got bit on the face all three times. The first was my grandparents spaniel, the second was our first dog a rescue yorkie with food aggression, and the third was our second dog.
> Every time I admit it was my fault, we as the more intelligent race have to act first and prevent these things. it is ALWAYS our fault. I would never consider putting any of those dogs down.


It's a rare day that I am not around a dog, and I have never been bitten. 

I had a grumpy old girl now who would not tolerate young children, so she would not be around them. How on earth does it happen that you are bitten three times in the face, and the dogs are not put to sleep? I just don't understand that. 


This horse has been ruined by the idiot owner, for sure it's not the horses fault - however the horse is unsafe. With many millions of horses going to slaughter who would never do this, why not take one of them rather than wasting time on this one?


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## 5Bijou5 (Mar 16, 2013)

bsms said:


> Strongly disagree. I've owned a lot of dogs, but had one I got rid of because she was mean. She was treated like all the other dogs I've owned, but she was a mean puppy and she never changed.
> 
> It wasn't my fault. I've got a Border Collie sitting next to me who will allow little kids to stand on his head. But some dogs are mean. Not often, and I've only had one in 54 years of owning multiple dogs. But they exist.
> 
> Now give that dog 1,000 lbs of muscle, and ask what you do if it turns out mean?


I have owned nice dogs too... My maltese went through training to be a therapy dog, and my neighborhood kids and their families have repeatedly tried to buy my husky off of me for their families. 

I had a dangerous horse, he was quiet what you refer to as 'mean', he was quiet a handful and we knew better to keep him but we got him to people that helped him. and now he is fine with his new owners. happy even. 
I am horrified that everyone is saying "kill the beast!" and not "get that horse to a trainer and a better home!" that is what I feel is the much more civilized approach to this that will save this girl and her horse.


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## EmsTNWalkers (Mar 10, 2013)

5Bijou5 said:


> I have owned nice dogs too... My maltese went through training to be a therapy dog, and my neighborhood kids and their families have repeatedly tried to buy my husky off of me for their families.
> 
> I had a dangerous horse, he was quiet what you refer to as 'mean', he was quiet a handful and we knew better to keep him but we got him to people that helped him. and now he is fine with his new owners. happy even.
> I am horrified that everyone is saying "kill the beast!" and not "get that horse to a trainer and a better home!" that is what I feel is the much more civilized approach to this that will save this girl and her horse.


Unfortunately a horse can be ruined past the point of no return, and given the multiple times it has kicked at her and thrown her off, etc it is likely that this horse would be better off being put down.


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

5Bijou5 said:


> I have been attacked by three family dogs in my life. Got bit on the face all three times. The first was my grandparents spaniel, the second was our first dog a rescue yorkie with food aggression, and the third was our second dog.
> Every time I admit it was my fault, we as the more intelligent race have to act first and prevent these things. it is ALWAYS our fault. I would never consider putting any of those dogs down.


And when those dogs of yours bite someone else that realizes the wrong, the dogs will be killed and charges will be placed on owner/handler.

I don't care if I pay $50k for a property dog..It bites someone that lives on the property it will be shot and shipped back to it's trainer/breeding facility with an intended refund. I couldn't give a flying rat's hind end how much the animal is worth, who's at fault, etc. If any animal of mine (dog, cat, horse, etc) purposly tries to maim/kill a human, it will be shot day of. I can go get another dog that is appropriate for the humans in my house and on my property. I've never in my life heard a person that understands animals say "well, it was my fault. I shouldn't have looked at them while they were eating or touched them while they were sleeping." BullS, if I accidently nudge my dog because it's sleeping beside my bed and I get up, I'll be damned if it bites me and lives. I could care less who the more "intelligent species" is, animals need to be kept to a standard or culled, except there's people out there (such as you?) who live in a fantasy world..And when they get killed, someone else is stuck with the animal they should've had put down.

Oh, and I was dead serious about shooting that horse. I'll deal with my mare that kicks because it scared people away (hasn't kicked at me again after I beat her butt around the arena for it the day I got her on my (well, boarding) property and off of her old owners). The only reason I haven't done so to her is because it isn't a deliberate strike to maim/kill me, just get me to leave her be. There's a difference between those horses..One with intent to kill, and with an empty threat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dlpark2 (Mar 6, 2013)

5Bijou5 said:


> I have owned nice dogs too... My maltese went through training to be a therapy dog, and my neighborhood kids and their families have repeatedly tried to buy my husky off of me for their families.
> 
> I had a dangerous horse, he was quiet what you refer to as 'mean', he was quiet a handful and we knew better to keep him but we got him to people that helped him. and now he is fine with his new owners. happy even.
> I am horrified that everyone is saying "kill the beast!" and not "get that horse to a trainer and a better home!" that is what I feel is the much more civilized approach to this that will save this girl and her horse.


Unfortunitely, getting the horse a better home or a trainer will never happen cause she loves what he does......so someday, he is going to kill her and then is either going to be sold and kill someone else cause he will be put on craigslist as a showing jumper and sold for $5000 or up and will end up killing someone else or he will be sent to auction. I have trained many dogs and trained my own horses, but sometimes they are just to far go to bring back from the brink of insanity.... I love animals with all my heart and soul, but I would never want to be responsible for the death of another because of the animal being aggressive.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I wasn't dead serious about shooting the horse, I don't have a gun. I would have the vet out with a red syringe.


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## 5Bijou5 (Mar 16, 2013)

AlexS said:


> It's a rare day that I am not around a dog, and I have never been bitten.
> 
> I had a grumpy old girl now who would not tolerate young children, so she would not be around them. How on earth does it happen that you are bitten three times in the face, and the dogs are not put to sleep? I just don't understand that.
> 
> ...


Like I said, it was always my fault. (two of the times I was too young to know better and one of the times I was seven and left home alone with a bagel and a food-aggressive-prior-stray) Just like these accidents in the videos is the girl's fault. She made him this way. 

When I owned my problem horse a few people told me to send him to slaughter. I could NEVER imagine doing that. Doesn't matter what he did. I realize we have totally different perspectives on this but I just don't understand how you could say 
"With many millions of horses going to slaughter who would never do this, why not take one of them rather than wasting time on this one?" 
I understand the millions of horses need homes but you so easily condemned this horse to death and wrote him off as a waste of time. that's...that's.... just not right.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

5Bijou5 said:


> Like I said, it was always my fault. (two of the times I was too young to know better and one of the times I was seven and left home alone with a bagel and a food-aggressive-prior-stray) Just like these accidents in the videos is the girl's fault. She made him this way.
> 
> When I owned my problem horse a few people told me to send him to slaughter. I could NEVER imagine doing that. Doesn't matter what he did. I realize we have totally different perspectives on this but I just don't understand how you could say
> "With many millions of horses going to slaughter who would never do this, why not take one of them rather than wasting time on this one?"
> I understand the millions of horses need homes but you so easily condemned this horse to death and wrote him off as a waste of time. that's...that's.... just not right.


He's a waste of time when he's trying to kick my head off......he's dirty....


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## EmsTNWalkers (Mar 10, 2013)

I love my horses, they aren't just some "stock" I have standing around, they aren't just tools for me to use and abuse, and they certainly aren't disposable. However, if one of them deliberately kicked me in the head and acted the way that horse did, you can bet your bum either hubby would shoot it or it would be going through the sale. It's only a matter of time before that horse takes it to the next level and stomps her and kills her rather than just firing one off on her head. In a perfect world a Clinton Anderson, Pat Parelli, Jesus Christ, who ever trainer, would come save the day and take the horse and train it and it turn out to be the most loving and gentle kids horse. Unfortunately that won't happen. The horse needs to be put down and this girl needs to know she is the reason for it.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

5Bijou5 said:


> that's...that's.... just not right.


I guess we agree to disagree. 

When I was 16-25, I would have done everything in my power to save every single animal out there. Now I would rather put my energy into an animal that has never put a foot wrong, and will die without that help - over a horse or animal that tried to kill someone. Either way, an animal will die, so why the good one?


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## 5Bijou5 (Mar 16, 2013)

dlpark2 said:


> Unfortunitely, that from the comments I read on Utube and the comments on her facebook posts, getting the horse a better home or a trainer will never happen cause she loves what he does......so someday, he is going to kill her and then is either going to be sold and kill someone else cause he will be put on craigslist as a showing jumper and sold for $5000 or up and will end up killing someone else or he will be sent to auction. I have trained many dogs and trained my own horses, but sometimes they are just to far go to bring back from the brink of insanity.... I love animals with all my heart and soul, but I would never want to be responsible for the death of another because of the animal being aggressive.


I know getting him to a trainer will never happen. The horse is never going to be killed either. I am horrified because we are talking about theoretically what we would do with the horse. 
Also you would hate to be responsible for the death of another because of the animal being aggressive. I would hate to be responsible for the death of an animal because the owner is an idiot. I would prefer to keep both alive if possible. Better to separate than kill... at least in my book.


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## dlpark2 (Mar 6, 2013)

Iseul said:


> And when those dogs of yours bite someone else that realizes the wrong, the dogs will be killed and charges will be placed on owner/handler.
> 
> I don't care if I pay $50k for a property dog..It bites someone that lives on the property it will be shot and shipped back to it's trainer/breeding facility with an intended refund. I couldn't give a flying rat's hind end how much the animal is worth, who's at fault, etc. If any animal of mine (dog, cat, horse, etc) purposly tries to maim/kill a human, it will be shot day of. I can go get another dog that is appropriate for the humans in my house and on my property. I've never in my life heard a person that understands animals say "well, it was my fault. I shouldn't have looked at them while they were eating or touched them while they were sleeping." BullS, if I accidently nudge my dog because it's sleeping beside my bed and I get up, I'll be damned if it bites me and lives. I could care less who the more "intelligent species" is, animals need to be kept to a standard or culled, except there's people out there (such as you?) who live in a fantasy world..And when they get killed, someone else is stuck with the animal they should've had put down.
> 
> ...


 Exactly...there is only one time that I was ever bite by a dog and let it live because it was my fault...I was stupid and tried to break up a dog fight and got nailed in doing it...My mare was given to us and we were told she was a "kicker"...she turned her butt on me once or twice when we first got her and I lashed her right across the rump with the carrot stick and she has never done it again, but she was doing it out of pure fear that I was trying to kill her, not the other way around. She had not had any human contact except for once a day feedings for about 5 years, so everything was a threat to her...saddle a threat, lead rope a threat, halter a threat, bridle a threat. In the 8 or 9 months I have had her, she still has her bitchy mare moments, but she doesn't try to kick out anymore.


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## 5Bijou5 (Mar 16, 2013)

AlexS said:


> I guess we agree to disagree.
> 
> When I was 16-25, I would have done everything in my power to save every single animal out there. Now I would rather put my energy into an animal that has never put a foot wrong, and will die without that help - over a horse or animal that tried to kill someone. Either way, an animal will die, so why the good one?


Agreed. We can agree to disagree.


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## dlpark2 (Mar 6, 2013)

5Bijou5 said:


> I know getting him to a trainer will never happen. The horse is never going to be killed either. I am horrified because we are talking about theoretically what we would do with the horse.
> Also you would hate to be responsible for the death of another because of the animal being aggressive. I would hate to be responsible for the death of an animal because the owner is an idiot. I would prefer to keep both alive if possible. Better to separate than kill... at least in my book.


 sometimes it just isn't possible though...unfortunitely a fact of life.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

5Bijou5 said:


> Also you would hate to be responsible for the death of another because of the animal being aggressive. I would hate to be responsible for the death of an animal because the owner is an idiot. I would prefer to keep both alive if possible. Better to separate than kill... at least in my book.


Sorry, human lives are more important than animal lives. It sounds harsh, but it's absolutely true. I love each and every one of my animals, but if they were to become aggressive to the extent of deliberately aiming to kill, they would be put down, no questions asked.

You also have to consider that while training sounds like a good answer, it's hard to find a trainer willing to risk their life to put some manners on a vicious animal.


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## GallopingGuitarist (Jan 8, 2013)

5Bijou5 said:


> Like I said, it was always my fault. (two of the times I was too young to know better and one of the times I was seven and left home alone with a bagel and a food-aggressive-prior-stray) Just like these accidents in the videos is the girl's fault. She made him this way.
> 
> When I owned my problem horse a few people told me to send him to slaughter. I could NEVER imagine doing that. Doesn't matter what he did. I realize we have totally different perspectives on this but I just don't understand how you could say
> "With many millions of horses going to slaughter who would never do this, why not take one of them rather than wasting time on this one?"
> I understand the millions of horses need homes but you so easily condemned this horse to death and wrote him off as a waste of time. that's...that's.... just not right.


I think I will point out that most of us on here are pro slaughter for the good of the horse economy. 

Just to get that out in the clear, not trying to hijack the thread.


My family sent a TB mare to the auction because she liked to blowup and try and hurt people. She'd be fine and then explode into bucking and rearing fits. She was dangerous, plain and simple. We gave her a lot of 'second' chances and then decided that it wasn't worth getting hurt. We sent her through auction with a note, "TB mare, 8 years old, broke to ride, but unpredictable". She went to 'Ron, pen...' One of the local meat buyers. 

On the dog note, we had a dog that turned on my brother. When my dad went to chain him up so that the kids could be outside playing, the dog tried to bite him. That was the end of the dog. We have kids, and kids are more precious than any animal could ever be. 

They are animals. Companions, friends, protectors, pets, yes... But they turn nasty and that is that. It's not worth anyone's life, just to keep 'fido' or 'fanny' alive. Do we love our horses and dogs, yes we do, a lot! But also can think through fantasies.


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## 5Bijou5 (Mar 16, 2013)

dlpark2 said:


> sometimes it just isn't possible though...unfortunitely a fact of life.


Like I said, if possible. I know we don't live in a perfect world and awful things sometimes have to happen. I was just offended that so many people jumped to murder so quickly, especially when talking theoretically about options.


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## 5Bijou5 (Mar 16, 2013)

equiniphile said:


> Sorry, human lives are more important than animal lives. It sounds harsh, but it's absolutely true. I love each and every one of my animals, but if they were to become aggressive to the extent of deliberately aiming to kill, they would be put down, no questions asked.
> 
> You also have to consider that while training sounds like a good answer, it's hard to find a trainer willing to risk their life to put some manners on a vicious animal.


If you read carefully I didn't say that animals were more important than people. I was saying that you shouldn't kill unless necessary.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

5Bijou5 said:


> Like I said, if possible. I know we don't live in a perfect world and awful things sometimes have to happen. I was just offended that so many people jumped to murder so quickly, especially when talking theoretically about options.


The horse jumped to that himself. When he tried to 'murder' the girl.


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## BarrelracingArabian (Mar 31, 2010)

They all jumped to that because that horse deliberately aimed at her head he slowed down planted launched then ran off. If any of my horses did that there would A be a come to Jesus butt whooping if it happened again he'd be gone. I have too much too lose to be purposely risking my life with an animal who aims to kill. Sorry way too many good horses out there.

Same goes for a dog there are thousands of dogs out there for me why would I risk being tore up or being sued because the known aggressive dog attacked? 

I love animals but I don't play that game. Too many sue happy people out there


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## EmsTNWalkers (Mar 10, 2013)

5Bijou5 said:


> Like I said, if possible. I know we don't live in a perfect world and awful things sometimes have to happen. I was just offended that so many people jumped to murder so quickly, especially when talking theoretically about options.


Murder...seriously?? It's not as if anyone is suggesting to inhumanely slaughter this horse. It was suggested to put down a vicious and dangerous horse. I'm willing to bet you shudder at the thought of horses being sold to meat buyers at the auctions as well. Regardless of how much we love our horses we must remember they are large powerful animals fully capable of killing us if the mood strikes them. 

If you are willing to take on the responsibility of horse ownership, then you should always have a plan of action should something go wrong. In theory, that is.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Calling talking about euthanizing a dangerous horse "murder" is straight up anthropomorphising the animals and is dangerous.

Directly from dictionary.com, this is the definition of murder:

"1. the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder) and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder)"

Nowhere in there does it say that putting an animal to sleep is murder.

Like has been said: there are WAY too many good horses out there without homes to try to save the bad ones.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 5Bijou5 (Mar 16, 2013)

GallopingGuitarist said:


> I think I will point out that most of us on here are pro slaughter for the good of the horse economy.
> 
> Just to get that out in the clear, not trying to hijack the thread.
> 
> ...


I am not sure what you want me to say about this. So I am going to state (lol yes it is obviously clear) that I am against slaughter, and that I will agree to disagree.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Bijou, what do you define as being "necessary" conditions for "murdering" a horse? I'm having a hard time understanding why you don't think this horse's actions justify him being humanely put down. Someone's LIFE will always be at risk when working with horses like these. Is it really worth a human life to try and train an unpredictable, dangerous horse? Is it fair to expect any trainer to deal with these horses?


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Oooops.....anyway.....I don't want to wake up to this everyday......


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## 5Bijou5 (Mar 16, 2013)

AlexS said:


> The horse jumped to that himself. When he tried to 'murder' the girl.


I agree, but horses don't have the thinking capacity of humans. While it was deliberate and planned it was still acted on impulse. These are pre-thought out responses without prior abuse.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

5Bijou5, who do you love most in your life? 

For me it's my husband, sister and Mum. 

If I have a choice of who I would rather grieve, then it would be me. For sure I would be terribly sad that I put a dangerous horse to sleep or moved it along - however I would rather that that the pain my hubby, sis and Mum would feel if I died. 
It's not really about a will to live on my part or not, bam it would be over - it's about what it is important in my life. 

Would your Mom or whoever is most important in your life, would they rather have you or a horse?


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## EmsTNWalkers (Mar 10, 2013)

Muppetgirl said:


> Oooops.....anyway.....I don't want to wake up to this everyday......


bahahahahaaaaaaa


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

What would you do with this horse, Bijou? Would you work with him?


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## TheAQHAGirl (Aug 10, 2012)

Muppetgirl said:


> Oooops.....anyway.....I don't want to wake up to this everyday......


Oooh Muppetgirl, you always bring in the humorous sides of each story. Lol.


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## 5Bijou5 (Mar 16, 2013)

EmsTNWalkers said:


> Murder...seriously?? It's not as if anyone is suggesting to inhumanely slaughter this horse. It was suggested to put down a vicious and dangerous horse. I'm willing to bet you shudder at the thought of horses being sold to meat buyers at the auctions as well. Regardless of how much we love our horses we must remember they are large powerful animals fully capable of killing us if the mood strikes them.
> 
> If you are willing to take on the responsibility of horse ownership, then you should always have a plan of action should something go wrong. In theory, that is.


Congrats, you won that bet. Also I am fully aware our animals can kill us. I am also fully aware we can kill our horses (not with our bare hands of course, but so may people here seem to mention other ways) I prefer to keep things less barbaric and decide to keep the killing all around to a minimum 
I don't know if this is correct but it seems by the way you worded it in your post that your first plan of action when something goes wrong is to kill it... sounds logical. :?


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

5Bijou5 said:


> I agree, but horses don't have the thinking capacity of humans. While it was deliberate and planned it was still acted on impulse. These are pre-thought out responses without prior abuse.


The way this girl is treating these horses and CREATING THESE MONSTERS is, in my book, abuse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 5Bijou5 (Mar 16, 2013)

AlexS said:


> 5Bijou5, who do you love most in your life?
> 
> For me it's my husband, sister and Mum.
> 
> ...


this is a very complicated question that I won't get into on this thread. I don't really want to make this about my life / relationships. So lets bring it back to everyone calling me an immature-fantasy-living-unrealistic little girl and me calling everyone killers. 
OR
we could all agree to disagree?


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## 5Bijou5 (Mar 16, 2013)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> The way this girl is treating these horses and CREATING THESE MONSTERS is, in my book, abuse.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Very much so. I totally agree, and I HATE this girl. 
I was saying that the horse was abused by this girl and acting on impulse. you compared the horse trying to kill to the people trying to kill. I was making the point that these people aren't acting on impulse and weren't abused.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

5Bijou5 said:


> I don't know if this is correct but it seems by the way you worded it in your post that your first plan of action when something goes wrong is to kill it... sounds logical. :?


There's not a single person here who would be happy to put a horse to sleep. Hang around a while and see the massive grief we feel we when lose our animals. I think you are misjudging us. We all love horses or we would not be here. 

One of the worst days in my life was when I put my dog to sleep, it was just sheer hell. But he was in a coma and even with the help of vets and meds for 8 hours he wouldn't wake up. He'd been ill, and it was time. His ashes are sitting in a box above me right now, his photo is next to my bed. That day at the vets cost me $4k, and I came home with a box. 

Please don't act morally superior, just because you have a different point of view. Get to know us a bit before you do that.


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## EmsTNWalkers (Mar 10, 2013)

5Bijou5 said:


> Congrats, you won that bet. Also I am fully aware our animals can kill us. I am also fully aware we can kill our horses (not with our bare hands of course, but so may people here seem to mention other ways) I prefer to keep things less barbaric and decide to keep the killing all around to a minimum
> I don't know if this is correct but it seems by the way you worded it in your post that your first plan of action when something goes wrong is to kill it... sounds logical. :?


 Where in my post did I say anything about my first plan of action being to kill it if something goes wrong?? I said when you have a large animal capable of killing you, you have should have a plan of action should something go wrong. 

That's not saying the horse looked at me wrong so I think it should be shot.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Okay, I only watched the video and skipped over much of the following thread, though I did get the gist of most of it.

That is not the first time that horse has kicked. A first time kicker will generally not aim with such clear deliberation and precise targeting. Therefore, the horse _is_ a kicker. It _will_ happen again, perhaps next time he'll catch her in the face or the neck or the back where there is nothing to protect her. Unfortunately, it may take a crushed face or a broken spine for her to realize that the horse is troubled.

Frankly, I don't really see that as worthy of the "you need to wear a helmet" argument. To me, that video is more proof of "you need to learn how to train/handle a horse properly".

I can't say for certain that I would definitely put the horse down for that, but that would certainly be the final option if I deemed that the horse was not going to be able to be trained out of that. I won't keep a kicker and, if he wouldn't stop, I couldn't sell him in good conscience. Therefore, I'd have him put down...or shipped off to slaughter.

With the horse market like it is, I've got no use for a horse I can't trust and I'd never trust that horse even if he never offered to kick again. I wouldn't want to keep him, but at the same time, I wouldn't dare try to sell him without full disclosure about his issues which would include a history as a kicker. That alone would knock out much of the limited market for a horse like him. So, he's essentially worthless.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Robs you big meanie  didn't you just save a little filly?


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## EmsTNWalkers (Mar 10, 2013)

5Bijou5 said:


> Very much so. I totally agree, and I HATE this girl.
> I was saying that the horse was abused by this girl and acting on impulse. you compared the horse trying to kill to the people trying to kill. I was making the point that these people aren't acting on impulse and weren't abused.


I disagree the horse was acting on impulse. I believe this is common with this horse and he knows he can do whatever he wants. I'm willing to bet he had every intention of getting her off of his back the moment she climbed on, and tha kick to the head was just the icing on the cake and proved his point that he is the boss, not her.


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## 5Bijou5 (Mar 16, 2013)

WSArabians said:


> What would you do with this horse, Bijou? Would you work with him?
> 
> Orphan Horse.mpg - YouTube


I don't nearly have the skills to work with this horse. I am not going to try and think otherwise. BUT people on the internet (who have no actual say in what happens to the horse) shouldn't start screaming "KILL IT!" "KILL IT!" and then saying how much they love these animals.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

In that case, she's even more lucky than I first thought. It doesn't take much of a hit to cause some serious brain damage.


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## dlpark2 (Mar 6, 2013)

smrobs said:


> Okay, I only watched the video and skipped over much of the following thread, though I did get the gist of most of it.
> 
> That is not the first time that horse has kicked. A first time kicker will generally not aim with such clear deliberation and precise targeting. Therefore, the horse _is_ a kicker. It _will_ happen again, perhaps next time he'll catch her in the face or the neck or the back where there is nothing to protect her. Unfortunately, it may take a crushed face or a broken spine for her to realize that the horse is troubled.
> 
> ...


 I wish I could go back and change the title of the thread, but I can't. I wasn't thinking clearly when I made the title....not only that, but I spelled "wear" wrong and my OCD is kicking in and it is killing me to see it lol!


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## Canterklutz (Jul 20, 2012)

5Bijou5 said:


> Congrats, you won that bet. Also I am fully aware our animals can kill us. I am also fully aware we can kill our horses (not with our bare hands of course, but so may people here seem to mention other ways) I prefer to keep things less barbaric and decide to keep the killing all around to a minimum
> I don't know if this is correct but it seems by the way you worded it in your post that your first plan of action when something goes wrong is to kill it... sounds logical. :?


I and two other people were nearly killed by a horse with persistently violent tendancies. I got kicked in the face and had my face torn. I had a severe concussion and would've suffocated to death had the ambulence been any later. To this day, I still suffer from this incident. This horse had a million chances to shape up but never did. The owners of the horse only enabled its behavior. This horse should've been put in the ground in the first place instead of nearly taking the lives of 3 people. Now tell me to MY MAIMED FACE that not putting this horse down was the logical choice.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

AlexS said:


> Robs you big meanie  didn't you just save a little filly?


:wink:

LOL, yep, but she's not a "problem" horse.

She's _currently_ worthless, monetarily speaking, but she won't stay that way.


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

5Bijou5 said:


> I don't nearly have the skills to work with this horse. I am not going to try and think otherwise. BUT people on the internet (who have no actual say in what happens to the horse) shouldn't start screaming "KILL IT!" "KILL IT!" and then saying how much they love these animals.


I'm not sure where you read "KILL IT! KILL IT!"?

I think most of us just said it needed a bullet because it was a kick intended to kill, perfectly aimed with experienced precision.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 5Bijou5 (Mar 16, 2013)

AlexS said:


> There's not a single person here who would be happy to put a horse to sleep. Hang around a while and see the massive grief we feel we when lose our animals. I think you are misjudging us. We all love horses or we would not be here.
> 
> One of the worst days in my life was when I put my dog to sleep, it was just sheer hell. But he was in a coma and even with the help of vets and meds for 8 hours he wouldn't wake up. He'd been ill, and it was time. His ashes are sitting in a box above me right now, his photo is next to my bed. That day at the vets cost me $4k, and I came home with a box.
> 
> Please don't act morally superior, just because you have a different point of view. Get to know us a bit before you do that.


I am not trying to be superior. I am sorry to hear this. One of my dogs was put to sleep (I had no choice in it what so ever, wasn't even told til after) and it was....I didn't speak, barely ate or moved for a month. I realize how awful it must have been for you.


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## 5Bijou5 (Mar 16, 2013)

EmsTNWalkers said:


> Where in my post did I say anything about my first plan of action being to kill it if something goes wrong?? I said when you have a large animal capable of killing you, you have should have a plan of action should something go wrong.
> 
> That's not saying the horse looked at me wrong so I think it should be shot.


good. I am very glad. I didn't think so, it was just the impression I got. Sorry for the confusion.


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## Wild Heart (Oct 4, 2010)

I can't even form a coherent thought let alone put it into words to describe how I feel about the video. 
Appalled? I guess that will have to do.


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

> Like I said, if possible. I know we don't live in a perfect world and awful things sometimes have to happen. I was just offended that so many people jumped to murder so quickly, especially when talking theoretically about options.


I think you were being a little dramatic, especially considering we are talking theoretically here. 

Nobody here is against retraining problem horses. Just read the training section. You will find all sorts of problems. I am all for it. However, this horse deliberately aimed at and kicked a person in the head. For me and others, that makes him dangerous and not worth any further risk. I wouldn't waste my money on a trainer. 

For me, it'd be the same deal if it were my dog that bit you in the face. I'd kill him. I love my dogs, but that would be crossing the line.


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

5Bijou5 said:


> I don't nearly have the skills to work with this horse. I am not going to try and think otherwise. BUT people on the internet (who have no actual say in what happens to the horse) shouldn't start screaming "KILL IT!" "KILL IT!" and then saying how much they love these animals.


I won't say this is a case of you feeling morally superior, but I will say you are looking emotionally for teh poor ruined pony and none for the poor sap they pawn this horse off on who gets put in a wheelchair! ! the horse got screwed. .. sold honestly he is worth spit in this economy. he will suffer for it, ultimately. better at this point to limit that damage to him and not another innocent.

that kick was intentional. 

for the record, I have rescues and just picked up a horse from the camelot auction last week. I am pro slaughter and logical enough to know that while horses continue to suffer for human stupidity. ...and dogs, cats etc.... we should save the good ones that we can, not the dregs, their fsult or not.


sorry for punctuation etc, tablets suck.


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## MissColors (Jul 17, 2011)

Yeah that horse would have been worked like some stuff. 

He definitely kicked her intentionally.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 5Bijou5 (Mar 16, 2013)

Canterklutz said:


> I and two other people were nearly killed by a horse with persistently violent tendancies. I got kicked in the face and had my face torn. I had a severe concussion and would've suffocated to death had the ambulence been any later. To this day, I still suffer from this incident. This horse had a million chances to shape up but never did. The owners of the horse only enabled its behavior. This horse should've been put in the ground in the first place instead of nearly taking the lives of 3 people. Now tell me to MY MAIMED FACE that not putting this horse down was the logical choice.


I don't believe it would have been a logical FIRST choice, at the point it got to though I can definitely see your side. I didn't know the horse so I couldn't say for myself but I can see in cases like this how a horse could be put down.


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## Tigo (Feb 25, 2012)

WSArabians said:


> What would you do with this horse, Bijou? Would you work with him?
> 
> Orphan Horse.mpg - YouTube


:shock: OH MY GOD.

Speaking of horses that need to be shot. That one should have been....yesterday! WOW.


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

5Bijou5 said:


> I don't believe it would have been a logical FIRST choice, at the point it got to though I can definitely see your side. I didn't know the horse so I couldn't say for myself but I can see in cases like this how a horse could be put down.


I won't lie, I respect, honor and love most animals more than people. however it should not take a near death or three for a horse to be judged "not right" and put out of its misery. IMO, of course.


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## 5Bijou5 (Mar 16, 2013)

demonwolfmoon said:


> I won't say this is a case of you feeling morally superior, but I will say you are looking emotionally for teh poor ruined pony and none for the poor sap they pawn this horse off on who gets put in a wheelchair! ! the horse got screwed. .. sold honestly he is worth spit in this economy. he will suffer for it, ultimately. better at this point to limit that damage to him and not another innocent.
> 
> that kick was intentional.
> 
> ...


I am happy that you picked up a camelot horse. They deserve homes. I am not going to repeatedly beat you with my beliefs.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

So, Bijou, where do you draw the line? Why is it acceptable to put down one dangerous animal but not the other?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

5Bijou5 said:


> I am not trying to be superior. I am sorry to hear this. One of my dogs was put to sleep (I had no choice in it what so ever, wasn't even told til after) and it was....I didn't speak, barely ate or moved for a month. I realize how awful it must have been for you.


 
Thanks. 


Muppet, that photo isn't as near as bad as I thought it would be. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3szHByi7xBw


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

equiniphile said:


> So, Bijou, where do you draw the line? Why is it acceptable to put down one dangerous animal but not the other?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Because one's just evil and the other was ruined by an idiot. Right? That's what I'm getting at least.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I'd be willing to bet that the horse that attacked Pat didn't come out of the womb breathing fire at people. No matter the cause of behavior like this, there's just no justification for not eliminating that safety hazard, IMO.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lockwood (Nov 8, 2011)

Pulling personal information from other sources and posting it here with the intent to ridicule is not ok. The original discussion does have relevance here, so we have decided to reopen the thread after reviewing, cleaning, and some post removals. 

Let’s keep it on topic and follow the rules, or it will permanently closed.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I have no idea what I said, so that being said, she's an idiot, pics pulled from other sources or not - she says the horse didn't mean to. Oh really?


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## Glenknock (Feb 27, 2013)

OMG i've just watched the video if he were mine i'd have murdered him ! I started reading the thread and then had to look at video to see what the fuss was about and by god that is one dangerous animal and she's lucky to be alive but then like some said you dont know what she's been doing to him. I'm just so shocked i cant believe that video


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I agree that her judgement is mixed up on this, and the hrose kicked intentionally, and she's totally deluding herself if she thinks otherwise. 
Her judgement is off on this, and she probably has a relationship with the horse that is not balanced toward respect from horse to human. 

But, 
there is a difference between saying "She is badly mistaken, or mixed up, or deluded if she believes that horse kicked her accidently" and saying "She's an idiot "


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## Phly (Nov 14, 2012)

A horse that aims and delivers? No, accident.
I personally feel natural selection will settle that love affair. You can't fix stupid, in human or any other animal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Maybe the bigger point here is to not assume that just becuase you are wearing a helmet that you are immune to the dangers of horses. I doubt that was how the girl felt , once she strapped on her helmet. But, the way the video has been used to reinforce helmet use is kind of odd when it is such a clear demonstrator of the dangers of foolish horsemanship (riding bareback and jumping on icey/snowy ground) and a likely lack of respect training.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

I think the biggest point here is to assume that when 98% of your posts (I know HF has some funny rules, but IMO anything on the internet is open to anyone - including a FB link you post everywhere and your videos you put on YouTube) that your horse is a raving lunatic or a red devil or whatever other term she used, and then go on to say that this was accident - well, once again, knowing when you're over your head and that enough is enough is probably the best aspect of a well rounded horse person. 
Unfortunately some people that this skill - I blame it on poor evolution and a skewed society.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> But,
> there is a difference between saying "She is badly mistaken, or mixed up, or deluded if she believes that horse kicked her accidently" and saying "She's an idiot "


I don't think I agree with you Tiny. I get that pulling photos from other sources is not ok with forum rules, and I know the policy here is to keep it nice. 

Maybe a better way of saying, she is an idiot, is to say she is not educated enough? But then she would think that she is, I saw the other photos, so it might not be nice, but I do think she is an idiot. I was one too at that age, and I had no clue I was, when I was told, I fought it, as I wasn't in my mind.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

AlexS said:


> I don't think I agree with you Tiny. I get that pulling photos from other sources is not ok with forum rules, and I know the policy here is to keep it nice.
> 
> Maybe a better way of saying, she is an idiot, is to say she is not educated enough? But then she would think that she is, I saw the other photos, so it might not be nice, but I do think she is an idiot. I was one too at that age, and I had no clue I was, when I was told, I fought it, as I wasn't in my mind.


Ahhh man... To be young, dumb, and full of... Well, you know.
There are some great benefits to getting older. :lol:


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

> Pulling personal information from other sources and posting it here with the intent to ridicule is not ok. The original discussion does have relevance here, so we have decided to reopen the thread after reviewing, cleaning, and some post removals.
> 
> Let’s keep it on topic and follow the rules, or it will permanently closed.


I understand and respect the opinion of the moderating team. I have come to understand that you guys have a difficult job in trying to keep things nice and respectful, while at the same time trying to allow honesty and the opinions of everyone. I really do understand that. 

However, in this thread, I really don't understand what the problem is. The things other people were posting were actually youtube and facebook videos that this girl posted herself. That is all very public and anyone sharing would know that. I think the information is relevant to this thread. This thread started out about riding helmets. However, it evolved to discussing the type of horse that would do this sort of thing and the rider that created such a horse. There have been very harsh things said about this rider. However, if you take a look at the videos she herself posted on youtube and facebook, I think you will find them both alarming and foolish. 

There have been points made on all sides of this thread. I feel that while we have been having a debate, we have all been respectful of each other. One thing most of us agree on is that this rider is doing very foolish things and creating very dangerous horses. This girl is putting herself and her horses at risk for a very, very bad outcome. I feel that this is a situation that many of the people on this forum can learn from. There are people of all levels here. 

For those reasons, I don't understand why it is not o.k for us to be discussing the videos she herself posted. If it is not okay for us to discuss her youtube videos that she posted, then why is it okay for us to discuss the original video of her getting kicked in the head? It is all relevant information, IMO. There is a lot that people can learn from this thread and those videos. They can all be a huge lesson for anyone on what NOT to do.


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## EmsTNWalkers (Mar 10, 2013)

The pictures and links posted were public information, and I don't feel they were posted to ridicule anyone, but more so to reinforce the issue that there is a very ignorant/foolish individual riding/falling/begin thrown from a very dangerous animal. As a parent I would be thankful if my child came across this post and by seeing and reading all involved was possibly swayed from making stupid choices. Everyone was civil in his or her posts, even when there was a disagreement about how that horse should be handled. I don't believe anyone left the computer crying.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

.

FB Links in any form are not allowed, I believe the reasons are stated in our Forum Rules, so no need to go into why the Mods have edited things.

You Tube Videos are allowed but they are not allowed to start a furry of name calling.

Posts should be a learning experience and a reasonable critique of what may or may not happen. Calling people idiots and worse is not proper behavior.

Yes, many things are Publicly Posted, but the HF is not a place to post anything and everything we find.

We can try this one more time or Thread will be Locked

.


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## dlpark2 (Mar 6, 2013)

I want to thank the moderators for reopening the thread, and I have to agree that we should not be ridiculing about the rider. Yet, I believe this video and others that she has posted on her you tube page, do demonstrate good example of what can go wrong when you are doing improper stunts and activities on a horse and training dangerous behaviors. If people want to view her other videos, they should be able to research how to find them themselves. 
Although what the girl is doing is very dangerous, hopefully people will realize that the unexpected can always occur when riding. Which is on reason why, when I started the thread I put that it was a good example of why you should wear a helmet. I am sure the girl thought she was free and clear after she fell and did not expect the horse to turn on her and kick out. I feel she was very lucky to have had a helmet on. Without it, she would have had even a more serious injury or possibly be dead or paralized.


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## dlpark2 (Mar 6, 2013)

I realize what you are saying, but in my personal opinion, the moderators are correct. The news article gives the girls full name and it isn't that hard to do a you tube search to see her other videos if people wish too. 
This thread did go out of control a little in my opinion and I started it to demonstrate what can happen when you don't prepare for the unexpected. It was after the thread got started that people found her other videos and then the thread became a good example of how improper riding/training can lead to a dangerous animal.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

No that's not her, but it's another good example how not having the right respect and having dangerous "training" can put a person in danger and IMPO is relevant to the discussion as well.


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## dlpark2 (Mar 6, 2013)

I just believe that these videos show good examples of improper training, no parental guidance, and what can happen when you allow a horse to get away with doing improper behaviors. I want these videos to educate people, especially young and rebelous teens who think they are being cool at to how dangerous a horse can actually be and or become.


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## dlpark2 (Mar 6, 2013)

ST, you could of fixed my misspelling of "wear" in the title....it is driving me nuts...LOL


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

dlpark2 said:


> ST, you could of fixed my misspelling of "wear" in the title....it is driving me nuts...LOL


Oh, you're spoiled. I'd have let you suffer with it. :lol:


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

It has nothing to do with riding with a helmet, although convenient for Riders4Helmets.
It has nothing to do with the horse itself.
It has everything to do with this way of thinking, example, the words *"*_*pet horse"* _used in the YouTube video title and the thought quoted from the girl *"*_*they[horses} kick out in fear or shock- not aggression"
*_No helmet or body protector will ever be able to keep you from being injured with that thinking, the horse was a product of such thinking..or lack of.


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## dlpark2 (Mar 6, 2013)

The older I get the more OCD I become I swear!!! That is why the misspelling of "wear" is driving me nuts.


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## LouieThePalomino (Dec 15, 2012)

Whoops, sorry about posting the YT link to another rider [the first YT link was NOT of the girl who got kicked, but of a girl that she subscribes to and learns some of her 'Tricks' from]


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

dlpark2 said:


> ...I feel she was very lucky to have had a helmet on. Without it, she would have had even a more serious injury or possibly be dead or paralized.


Actually, the edge of the horse's hoof caught her right at the top of the eyebrow. Odds are, the main impact was just below the edge of the helmet. This is the problem with anecdotal evidence. If someone gets hurt and lives while riding with a helmet, it is always the helmet that saved her. The only time I've come off Mia, I was wearing a ball cap. My noggin wasn't hurt, but I didn't go around claiming my ball cap saved my life.

Statistically, helmets help if you fall. But if this girl doesn't learn more about horses, even a five point harness and full face helmet won't keep her healthy.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

THAT was show jumping?!
****

Even *I* must be Grand Prix material then. :lol:


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## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

I didn't see this thread until today. I read every bit of it. Wow. This young lady needs to get a clue before she is seriously injured or killed. Luke needs a real trainer - or perhaps a shot needle of the purple stuff. 

My former horse Red was a snotty little yearling when he was purchased as a yearling at the Louisiana Breeders Sale. He made the mistake of kicking at his owner, Margaret. Red found himself in the round pen on the wrong side of a bullwhip. He never offered to kick again EVER. He is now a child's horse. I would trust him with any kid but he is still a horse.

I hope this girl realizes that Jesus sent mighty angels to protect her pea head that day.


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## Copperhead (Jun 27, 2012)

Her helmet didn't help her. She was hit below the helmet.

I knew of a girl who got kicked in the face. Blood everywhere. Teeth were everywhere. They had to bone graph her mouth back together. She had a helmet on. The horse nailed her in the face.

Theres no excuse for that horse's behavior. I knew a horse who kicked at anyone he bucked off, so you best stay on. He was a beast, and so is this guy.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

QOS said:


> I didn't see this thread until today. I read every bit of it. Wow. This young lady needs to get a clue before she is seriously injured or killed. Luke needs a real trainer - or perhaps a shot needle of the purple stuff.
> 
> My former horse Red was a snotty little yearling when he was purchased as a yearling at the Louisiana Breeders Sale. He made the mistake of kicking at his owner, Margaret. Red found himself in the round pen on the wrong side of a bullwhip. He never offered to kick again EVER. He is now a child's horse. I would trust him with any kid but he is still a horse.
> 
> I hope this girl realizes that Jesus sent mighty angels to protect her pea head that day.



She does this all the time, apparently thinks it is funny, as in her show videos on youtube she looks to be in control.

Whether her trainer/parents realize what she does would be interesting to know.

And this is not only time horses have kicked out at her, just first time this bad, but has had broken/hurt hand too.

Just foolish to do this, and hard on horses, which will get the blame when she gets killed on one that she has ruined.


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