# Knee Arthritis?



## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Okay so I recently fractured my patella lifting hay . Thankfully the patella itself did not break, but the cartilage and bone underneath it was shaved off and went into my calf muscle. I had surgery and have my exercises to do before I get into physical therapy but I need a bit of help from people who have experienced this (or any knee injury) or people who know about the medical profession! 

1. From what I can tell (through personal research and some early conversations with my suregon) patella fractures can cause a high risk of arthritis (especially in patients that have a genetic history of arthritis). I've been thinking and wondered if I should take MSM or another supplement to help curb this (as every female on both sides of my family have arthritis in the knees)? How well did this work for you or in your experience?

2. What's the best way to bend my knee? I've got it to about 30-60 degrees but I'm not sure which would strengthen it more, by repeatedly bending it or by keeping it there for a while and then doing the same again? 

I've got another appointment in a month and know that I should contact the surgeon with these concerns and I'm planning too next month, I'd just like some input beforehand as he's out of town right now. I am keeping in mind that it's going slow and I'm only on day 3 of being able to bend it but it's driving me nuts because I'm afraid I'm doing something wrong or there's some trick to strengthing the muscles and knee better that I've failed to pick up on. 
Thank you in advance!


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## Bagheera (Apr 23, 2013)

Ask your doctor for sure. I can't answer your questions, but I can tell you that down the road, when you get arthritis, staying active and excersising regularly makes a huge difference in the pain/discomfort you will have. I'm 25yrs old and have arthritis in both knees. If I don't exercise a few times a week, my knees bother the daylights out of me.


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Okay thanks for your advice!  I've got arthritis in my back now but due to the knee injury I haven't been able to do the exercises...though honestly they really didn't help at all.... Oh the joys haha Ever feel like your body's plotting against you?


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## Bagheera (Apr 23, 2013)

I don't feel like my body is conspiring against me. I just feel old! Lol Some days I wake up and hobble around like an old lady for the first 15mins after getting out of bed. Lol


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

I feel you on that one! I joke with my doctor/surgeon that I'm 18 going on 80 because of the issues I've been having lately. Oh, and 25 is FAR from old! :wink:


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

A gluclosamine/chondriotin/msm supplement would do you wonders! Omega 3 fatty acids are great for cartlidge, joint, hair, nails. So that would be fish oil, flaxseed oil etc. 

Personally id stay away from Omega 6. Fatty acids. Those are going to have inflammatory pproperties in it, which will increase irritation/swelling of arthritis and cause you pain. Look at foods that have any type of inflammatory properties in them, tomatoes are big in those. So avoid tomatoes.

follow your PT exercises to a T, do not over-do it too soon. You will regret it.

wear comfortable and supportive shoes, no matter how ugly they are. Don't go barefoot or wear thin flip flops/thin soled shoes. 

If i was you, i would not run. Running is a (obviously) repetitive motion and the cuncussion put on your knees is incredible. I heard that a 100 pound person, when running, puts 400 pounds of pressure on their knees. Multiply what you were by 4, if you want to know what your weight will be!

do low impact exercises. Swimming, biking, yoga, pilates, etc.

and avoid taking high amounts of pain meds, and for long periods of time. Long term use of Tylenol can kill your liver. Long term use of Acetemaphine (IBuprofin/Vicodin) will kill your kidneys. 

Eat well, maintain your weight, if your overweight...try to lose weight. (Like im one to talk there... ;-)) But you get my drift. Take care of yourself.

since your problems could be genetic, it may be a matter of time before it happens. But you can potentially prolonge it by taking care of yourself... 

you also need to stay active. Walking/moving is going to keep you loose and not allow you to stiffen up. You'll have to find that balance of what's right. Not too little movement where your stiff, and not too much movement where you overdo it and your sore.

my mom had torn minicus surgery about 6 months ago. They cleaned up the arthritis she had going on, and her knee feels almost as bad as it did before surgery. Scar tissue and what not has made her miserable. On top of her not following all the instructions and wanting to run too early. She derailed her healing by not allowing herself time to heal.

don't you do the same!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

I'm an RN who has treated hundreds of total knee replacements/injuries and orthopaedic patients. Take it slow as far as exercise and do what is recommended and no more for now. A PT will guide you as to the progression of exercise and level of difficulty. Repetition right now is not as important as slow, gentle range of motion. Weight-bearing joints need a LOT of time to heal.
As CLaPorte said.. a gluclosamine/chondriotin/msm supplement would help quite a bit, but you have to take this for months to have an effect, and keep taking it. The knee joint is not vascular, so it takes eons to heal and re-create synovial fluid and heal damage. I'd also recommend highly getting some hyaluronic acid. This stuff is miraculous. You can order it online or use the same stuff you get for your horses. 

Throwing in some Cat's Claw would also be beneficial.

Hyaluronic Acid and Its Endless Benefits | Gnet Health and Fitness


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Thanks I'll be sure not too! haha I'm taking all the tips into consideration! I did hear back from him and apparently while he was out of town he had another surgeon who specializes in arthritis look at it to see what he thought. Appearently it's looking a ton better then he thought, though the guy did point out he can see a tiny bit of arthritis in it (we're supposing from an existing injury that never healed). The sooner the better in my book! 

Although I do have to ask (because I'm curious) are there any differences between the horse msm supplement and the people? My boss swears there isn't so now there's a bit of a wonderment on my part. If not halleluiah my mare's on that and I can abscond some of hers while I'm dead broke! :wink:

Edit: Thank you Druydess I'll be sure to check that out! I'm sure you could offer more input to my above question!  Also, would you recommend taking it while I'm healing or waiting until it's all healed up-well, more so than it is now?


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

Incitatus32 said:


> Thanks I'll be sure not too! haha I'm taking all the tips into consideration! I did hear back from him and apparently while he was out of town he had another surgeon who specializes in arthritis look at it to see what he thought. Appearently it's looking a ton better then he thought, though the guy did point out he can see a tiny bit of arthritis in it (we're supposing from an existing injury that never healed). The sooner the better in my book!
> 
> Although I do have to ask (because I'm curious) are there any differences between the horse msm supplement and the people? My boss swears there isn't so now there's a bit of a wonderment on my part. If not halleluiah my mare's on that and I can abscond some of hers while I'm dead broke! :wink:
> 
> Edit: Thank you Druydess I'll be sure to check that out! I'm sure you could offer more input to my above question!  Also, would you recommend taking it while I'm healing or waiting until it's all healed up-well, more so than it is now?


It is exactly the same. It's simply sulfur in digestible form. Some brands state on the label- 99.9% pure. In fact, it was the use of MSM on horses that led to its use in humans.

I would take it right away- 2-3 times/day. Of course I always have preface such information with the standard check with your Dr. statement. I take as an MSM supp and Biotin simply for the "side effects" which are thicker hair and stronger nails. (They also found that with horses-- i.e.- thicker manes and stronger hooves.) :wink:
And I can say it really works.. I have long, thick hair, and stronger nails. And no joint issues..LOL


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

I forgot to mention-- diet-wise- Get as much calcium as possible to support cell regeneration of underlying bone. And you're NOT going to get it from dairy products. That's a bunch of crap fed to us by the dairy industry. The BEST source of calcium is green, leafy vegetables.


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

^I'm so proud of myself! Yeah.... we never bought into the dairy is amazing for calcium lol my aunt's an anthropologist and when I was little instilled that in me. haha made health class fun fun fun. As for the msm: yay! That's gonna save me money in the long run! And I'll be sure to check with my doc. when I see him! (I feel kinda embarrassed to admit it but I've medicated with several horse stuff in the past *blushes profusely* but I just wanted to check and make sure..) Thicker hair... yay..... I've already got an afro on my head. haha my hair is literally three layers thick, guess I'm gonna be every wig makers dream catch.  I really appreciate your help/information! And can I say I love your arabs?


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

Incitatus32 said:


> ^I'm so proud of myself! Yeah.... we never bought into the dairy is amazing for calcium lol my aunt's an anthropologist and when I was little instilled that in me. haha made health class fun fun fun. As for the msm: yay! That's gonna save me money in the long run! And I'll be sure to check with my doc. when I see him! (I feel kinda embarrassed to admit it but I've medicated with several horse stuff in the past *blushes profusely* but I just wanted to check and make sure..) Thicker hair... yay..... I've already got an afro on my head. haha my hair is literally three layers thick, guess I'm gonna be every wig makers dream catch.  I really appreciate your help/information! And can I say I love your arabs?


The Dairy thing is a scam and it actually causes more health problems and allergies. Almond milk is far better for you; that what I use in the rare instance I drink/use "milk." Good for you and your Aunt!
Check the milligrams on the container and adjust a human dose accordingly. Don't feel bad about using horse products. Some are literally the same and cost less in comparison to pills. For instance, Tagamet, a GI drug when it first came out cost a mint, yet the same drug was used in sheep as they are somewhat nervous characters I hear, and sold for dollars on the barrel. Same drug. Just another way to rip off the consumer.
We use human drugs on horses as well, such as Bactrim and Doxicycline as well. We just have to know how to dose accordingly and which drugs are mutually acceptable. 
Thanks for the compliment; they are a joy to me. :wink:


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

An interesting article about calcium: Evidence shows Calcium Supplements Do Not Prevent Bone Loss in Women - Underground Health


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

^ I read that article and it was very interesting. My great grandmother had breast cancer in addition to several degenerative bone disorders and was put on this calcium supplement program because of the chemo and radiation treatments. Being the wonderful woman that she is, she put them in a cabinet and instead continued roofing her home that summer. When she went into remission they looked at her bones and found that they were better then they had been before.... now I'm beginning to wonder if her exposure to the sun had something to do with it? It's only recently she's had problems with her bones again but in fairness she's almost 99 years old and was banned from going up on her roof or doing any more repair projects by herself.


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Oh! I do want to ask something that's unrelated but spiked my interest. Have you heard of Tincture of Arnica? Our farrier brought some to me and my boss saying that his racehorse clients were giving it away because it was banned. Of course my boss slapped some on her aching knee to see if it actually worked and it did, really rather well. From my research I've found that it's an antinflamatory (sp) agent. Now I'm just curious if anyone knows anything about it or where to get it? She's running low and looking for some. haha It's made her life so much more mobile and she rides again because the swelling's down in her knee. Now that I'm down she needs to get her butt back up on the crazy's!


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

Incitatus32 said:


> ^ I read that article and it was very interesting. My great grandmother had breast cancer in addition to several degenerative bone disorders and was put on this calcium supplement program because of the chemo and radiation treatments. Being the wonderful woman that she is, she put them in a cabinet and instead continued roofing her home that summer. When she went into remission they looked at her bones and found that they were better then they had been before.... now I'm beginning to wonder if her exposure to the sun had something to do with it? It's only recently she's had problems with her bones again but in fairness she's almost 99 years old and was banned from going up on her roof or doing any more repair projects by herself.


I'm sure the sun had more influence on her calcium level that supps. At 99-- bless her for maintaining what she has! I can just picture a feisty 99 year old lady dragging out the ladder.....:wink:


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

Incitatus32 said:


> Oh! I do want to ask something that's unrelated but spiked my interest. Have you heard of Tincture of Arnica? Our farrier brought some to me and my boss saying that his racehorse clients were giving it away because it was banned. Of course my boss slapped some on her aching knee to see if it actually worked and it did, really rather well. From my research I've found that it's an antinflamatory (sp) agent. Now I'm just curious if anyone knows anything about it or where to get it? She's running low and looking for some. haha It's made her life so much more mobile and she rides again because the swelling's down in her knee. Now that I'm down she needs to get her butt back up on the crazy's!


I keep Arnica in my barn and in my home. It's good for bruises and muscle aches and you can get it in health food stores and online. You can sometimes find it in the Latin section of supermarkets.


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Thanks I'm gonna have to go look! It's honestly become one of my favorite things.


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## totalfreedom (Nov 23, 2009)

mountainroseherbs.com sells arnica. You could grow your own too, they also sell the seeds.

Also IME, eating very clean will get rid of arthritis. :wink: The cleanest form of eating with the quickest rate of healing, through eating, that I've experienced is to follow the works of Arnold Ehret, Dr. Robert Morse, Dr. Douglas Graham, and the like. Arthritis is one of the simpler things to get rid of when eating cleanly.


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