# All purpose vs close contact?



## Tymer

As far as I know, close contact saddles are more geared towards jumping.

Some say AP saddles are NO purpose saddles, because they are not particularly suited for any discipline.


----------



## MIEventer

All Purpose saddles = No Purpose Saddles. They are designed to allow the rider to beable to do any discipline with 1 saddle, but in reality it does not aid the rider at all.

Close Contact Saddles stirrup bars are placed in a forward position to allow the rider to obtain a proper jumping position while in tack, to aid the rider to ride the fences as functionally as they can. The seats of CC's arent as deep either, to aid the rider to obtain a lighter seat, to beable to functionally ride in a 2 point position.

They are, designed for Jumping.

Dressage Saddles, the stirrup bars are placed farther back, to allow the rider to obtain a straiter leg to be functional for the movements desired for the sport. The seats are deeper to allow the rider to beable to sit deeper and to allow the rider to remain at the verticle, balanced over their horses center of gravity. They are, designed for Dressage.

The All Purpose, has a mixture of everything. The Stirrup Bars are placed in the middle - not forward and not back - but right in the middle. Where they do not aid the rider to obtain a proper leg for jumping, nor a proper leg for dressage. 

All Purpose saddles are "ok" for beginner riders and riders who do pleasure, and trail riding, and small fences, but if you are advancing to do jumping seriously, I would suggest you invest in a CC.


----------



## luvs2ride1979

A good AP is better forflat work and small jumps. If you're going to be jumping higher than 2', then a good close contact or jumping saddle may be better for you.

I have a fleet of AP saddles for my lesson program, all good brands (4 Stubbens, a wintec, and an Avante). They are great to learn in as they are more secure, but they're not great for jumping more than small jumps in. Any of my students interested in jumping higher are encouraged to get their own flatter jumping saddle.

My daughter wants to even, so I'm ordering her a Thorowgood AP Broadback (Cob). It has a shallower close contact seat and a square cantle, more like halfway between an AP and a CC. It's a very cool saddle, though most appropriate for wider horses with low withers.


----------



## Kymbadina

Awesome! Thank you for all the replies! I'll be getting a cc saddle then! Thanks so much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ponyboy

MIEventer said:


> All Purpose saddles = No Purpose Saddles.


On the contrary: AP's are the perfect saddle for more than half the riders out there. The reason being, more than half of the riders out there don't do either dressage or jumping at high levels. 

I did first level dressage and jumped up to 3' (on a 13.2H pony) in an AP - it was what I was given, so I never knew any different. I know 2 low-level eventers who only have AP saddles - If they'd had to buy two different saddles they couldn't afford to do the sport.

Like you're always pointing out, even jumpers should still do dressage... So if a rider can only afford one saddle it should be an AP, not a CC.


----------



## luvs2ride1979

I really *hate* tha ap=np statement. A GOOD AP saddle is well balanced for flat work and jumping. I agree that you can't jump high in them (IMO 2' or less is best) and they're not always suitable for showing H/J (or English Pleasure), but they are good saddles to learn in. That's why all I have are AP saddles in my lesson program, and one VSD AP. 

Yes, you do need to work a little harder to keep your position with long stirrups in Dressage work, but I feel that's a good thing. It strengthens the rider's muscles and muscle memory. For jumping, an AP saddle is great as you won't fall out if you get left behind or have some other awkward jump. I like the stirrup bars as they are not too far forward. I see more chair seats in the hunter ring around here than anything else. Your heel should STILL be under your rear, even with short stirrups and even over fences. Keeping your leg back makes it easier to go in to a 2-point or half seat and stay balanced, so you don't have to throw yourself forward or stick your butt way out.

So, IMO, learning jumping is easier in an AP than a CC. However, if a rider wants to show or is past the basics and jumping 2' or higher in lessons, then a CC or jump saddle is the way to go.


----------



## MIEventer

Maybe. To each their own, if A/P's work for you, than great - so be it. But I think they are an unhappy inbetween. They don't aid the rider what-so-ever *depending on discipline*

I used to ride in a Wintec 500 A/P and I loved it. I swore up and down everytime I heard A/P's = N/P's, and said that was incorrect. I was able to do dressage just fine, and I was able to jump just fine in mine, and I was quite adamant on that...until I got a coach who actually made me work, and made me focus on my position.

When it came time to actually get my leg under me, and me to balance over my feet - I couldn't do it. It physically hurt hurt when I tried. I had no idea. Whenever my Coach tried to get me to get up into a functional two point, I couldn't do it without losing my balance - I physically tried over and over over and over, and blamed myself for the incorrectness, to find out it was the saddle. 

Now, I have a CC, and that saddle HELPS me get into the proper position, without struggle and without physical pain. Because it is designed for it. 

Your saddle is supposed to aid you, not hinder you. I've ridden in a few A/P's - and I found the same result - the struggle to get my position, and my leg under me and to stay out of my tack - could be how I am built maybe, but I hear from a lot of people the same story about A/P's.


----------



## Hoofprints in the Sand

MIE just curious...what would you call my saddle...the Collegiate Convertible Senior Event? 

It almost reminds me of a cross between AP and CC...I would love a true CC but...well...you know my unfortunate troubles with them :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MIEventer

I know you have a hard time - have you looked into a saddle like this:

Albion Saddlemakers

Your saddle, the Collegiate Convertible Event, is an A/P. The flaps are not forward enough for bigger fences, but it is a saddle that works for you. If it works for you, then that's great. But I do think you will find problems with your position and your knee's when you start jumping bigger fences. Your knees will surpass the flaps when you shorten your leathers to accomodate bigger fences.


----------



## sandsarita

I have both an AP Stubben and a CC saddle. I cannot stand to ride in the AP anymore. I originally learned to jump in this saddle, and due to how it positions you, and the deeper seat, I feel that it (and the instructor I had at the time) encouraged me to develop some bad habits I have had to fix over time. The only time the AP comes out now is when I am backing a horse for the first time. Then, I like that deep seat.

To me, take a look at what you want to do. If it is just to ride around in at home, then buy what fits you and your horse best and is within your price range. If you have goals of competing or jumping at a higher level, go with the CC.


----------



## Hoofprints in the Sand

MIEventer said:


> I know you have a hard time - have you looked into a saddle like this:
> 
> Albion Saddlemakers
> 
> Your saddle, the Collegiate Convertible Event, is an A/P. The flaps are not forward enough for bigger fences, but it is a saddle that works for you. If it works for you, then that's great. But I do think you will find problems with your position and your knee's when you start jumping bigger fences. Your knees will surpass the flaps when you shorten your leathers to accomodate bigger fences.


Those look like cool saddles!  The only thing is that I've never heard of that brand and have no clue where I could find one to try out? My issue is every close contact I've tried I can't reach the knee rolls unless I jack my stirrups up and chair sit which is then improper form and makes it impossible to jump.  

The only cc I ever tried that fit me was an older model Crosby that belonged to someone at my old barn...couldn't find that model used one anywhere and the newer ones were out of my price range and didn't work for me anyhow 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MIEventer

Have you used a Professional Saddle Maker/Fitter to come out and work with you? To help you find a saddle that works for you?


----------



## Kymbadina

So my basic hunt is to get a really good quality saddle that will last me at least the next 10 years. I was looking into a Stubben or similar quality. My friend told me to get the dover circut brand, on the basis that William Woods uses them and they are ridden in everyday and still stand up. Seems to make sense.
Dover Saddlery | Dover's Circuit Close Contact Saddle .
The saddle she reccomended. However it seems more like an a/p cc mix with a deeper seat no?
I'll keep my synthetic ap saddle for back up or working sale horses.
Am I wrong in assuming you could still do lower levels and groundwork in a cc saddle?


----------



## Hoofprints in the Sand

MIEventer said:


> Have you used a Professional Saddle Maker/Fitter to come out and work with you? To help you find a saddle that works for you?


No...no one around here uses one and they're pretty costly from what I've heard  I'll have to look around online and see if I can find any promising leads in my area though...I'm tired of looking for saddles at this point lol 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ponyboy

MIEventer said:


> When it came time to actually get my leg under me, and me to balance over my feet - I couldn't do it.


Must be an individual thing because my greatest strength as a rider was my lower leg. I was doing auto releases two years before anyone else in my class. (But I couldn't do a good sitting trot or canter with stirrups).


----------



## TheLastUnicorn

Be aware that Stubben saddles are often very narrow through the channel, so they don't fit many of "todays" horses for spine clearance. They seem to do alright with the horses with an "A" frame shaped back, but not much else. 

I would, personally, try to decide which style of riding I was going to spend most of my time doing - and buy either a CC or a Dressage saddle. 

The All Purpose saddle is built on a dressage tree with a forward flap and stirrup bar (usually anyhow). This allows a rider to do a little of anything but not do particularly well at any one thing. The bar placement means the rider won't be able to get their leg under them properly, for dressage, and the deeper seat and tree shape will inhibit the ability to jump if you're hoping to do more than the occasional jumping. 

I do flatwork all the time in my CC... I generally use a slightly more forward seat than I might in a dressage saddle, but for really basic schooling it's fine.


----------

