# 4 Foundation Cowbred studs, Grulla, 2 duns, pal/dun



## Drifting

Have any of your POCO studs been tested for HERDA? I don't see the results on your page.


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## Allison Finch

I went to your page and my anti-virus program immediately warned me that it was a virus danger. I left quickly. You might want to get your site checked for infection.


If your stallions have been tested, definitely put it prominently on your site. It is important information for careful breeders.


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## 2BigReds

What have your studs done to deserve being bred to? I don't see any sort of show record on any of them though I admit that I only skimmed much of their info, are they good working ranch horses? Honestly curious, not trying to be facetious. They are some gorgeous boys!

I also absolutely agree on HERDA testing.


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## stevenson

not very good pics for promoting breeding. no record of merits? are you just standing them on the fact they are foundation bred ?


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## 3ringburner

georgous!!


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## justpjnow

Drifting said:


> Have any of your POCO studs been tested for HERDA? I don't see the results on your page.


No, I have had no problems with them and have not had them tested. 
I will also say that I have no problem with getting them tested if someone wants to breed to any of them. If someone would like to breed, all they need do is pick the stud(s) they want to breed to and send the booking fee. I will immediately send in the test for Herda (including 5 panel testing) and if that stud comes back as positive or carrier of anything on the 5 panel they will immediately be refunded their booking fee. Thank you. P J


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## justpjnow

Allison Finch said:


> I went to your page and my anti-virus program immediately warned me that it was a virus danger. I left quickly. You might want to get your site checked for infection.
> 
> 
> If your stallions have been tested, definitely put it prominently on your site. It is important information for careful breeders.


Thank you very much Allison for the heads up on the virus danger. I will get my web host to check this out.
Yes you are right about the tests, I will definitely post them on each studs page as the results come in. Thank you. P J


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## justpjnow

2BigReds said:


> What have your studs done to deserve being bred to? I don't see any sort of show record on any of them though I admit that I only skimmed much of their info, are they good working ranch horses? Honestly curious, not trying to be facetious. They are some gorgeous boys!
> 
> I also absolutely agree on HERDA testing.


They are big stout ranch horses, with very hard to find OLD cowhorse bloodlines. I mostly raise the colts for rope horses and ranch/using horses, but have had some do very well in shows also, and even had one colt go to the world show in yearling halter. So I guess I raise "pretty" rope/ranch horses. 
See 2 different replies on testing above. Thank you, P J


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## justpjnow

3ringburner said:


> georgous!!


Thank you ma'am. P J


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## Remali

Very nice horses you have! I like a good working/riding horse, a show record really means nothing to me (but if they have a show record, that is OK too).


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## smrobs

Why not just go ahead and have them tested so people don't even have to ask?


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## Fort fireman

I like the grulla but would probably like him more if I could see his head. :lol:


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## smrobs

This is not a dig on you, OP, more of a statement of my expectations as a consumer that may or may not help you to stand your studs more efficiently.

If I had a mare I was looking to breed, I would not take more than a cursory glance at any stud that:

a) Was not _already _5-panel tested

b) Was not turned out appropriately for their advertised discipline (cleaned up, brushed, and looking sharp). I don't require pulled manes, clipped ears, and tons of show-sheen unless they are show horses in show shape, but at least pull them out of the pasture, make sure there are no knots in the mane/tail, and knock the dust off of them. Also, put them in a decent looking halter. Doesn't need to be a leather show halter with 8 pounds of silver, but it's not hard to find a nylon/rope halter that is clean, unfrayed, and properly fitted.

c) Has not had their feet done in (obviously) quite some time. That suggests that the owner doesn't really care about the well-being of the animal...and that concerns me. If they can't be bothered to do something so mundane as get their feet done...what about cleaning them before breeding? Will my mare catch something from a dirty stud?

d) Does not have good conformation pictures that show the entire horse as he's squared up on flat ground. If I can't see the entire horse, then that suggests to me that the stud owner just can't be bothered to take an extra 5 minutes to catch them out of the pasture and make them stand square...or there is a conformational fault that they are "avoiding" by taking pictures at a funky angle. Also, I don't like grass footing because you can't see the horse's feet. Preferably hard pack dirt, gravel driveway, or asphalt/concrete is what they should be standing on.

e) Does not state in the ad what the stud's accomplishments/training consist of. If the horse has never been broke...why? Was he injured? Did nobody take the time to break him because he was only a "baby-maker"? If he is broke, what discipline does he excel at? It's great if he's got foals on the ground that are accomplished, but I want to look at studs that can do something _themselves _too.


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## Bridgertrot

Has your grulla stud actually been tested for silver? Or are you just saying that?


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## darkpony

I personally think your studs are great! I love the way the first 3 are built. As someone said, a show record does not matter to me at all. I would prefer to breed to a good solid usable horse, with good confirmation and a sensible tempermant. and yours are easy on the eyes too. I guess to me, a picture only says so much anyway, so it doesnt matter if its the best quality. I would plan on seeing the horse in person before taking my mare there anyways! (as well as checking out the place she would be kept) 

I would have them 5 panel tested if there were mine though. From a mare owner stand point others are right. I would assume if it hasnt been done already, you are not willing to do it for some reason and I would probably move on to another stud without contacting you.


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## BlueStormborn

I'm no conformation expert at all but is it just the angle of the picture or is the first horse's back legs nearly straight? Hock looks weird to me


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## dbarabians

I would get them tested. Sooner or later if you continue to stand these stallions you will be asked about their genetic test . 
Smrobs I see your point but I have broodmares carrying or nursing foals and retired mares that I only have trimmed 2-4 times a year. If I am not riding them and their hooves are at a good angle I dont see the need to spend extra money or time having them done. With 31 horses I need to manage my time. If I was not riding Star or Sam and only using them for breeding I would have them on the same schedule as my broodmares. Now during breeding season when mare owners come to check my stallions out they will be trimmed to promote them.
I think those are nice stallions OP and for what they are being promoted for and their stud fees I might get better conformation shots but cowboys wanting a ranch horse or roping prospect look at conformation first. I would not need a show record just to inspect offspring out of different mares to see what those stallions produce. 
Good luck. Shalom


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## smrobs

Donald, show records mean very little to me either, but I do like for any stud I look at to at least say if he's a good ranch horse since that's what I'd be looking for. Will he watch a cow, is he sure footed in rough country, can you rope off him, etc.

I also understand the hoof care thing you mentioned, but as you said, you clean them up to promote them. I would at least trim them up for their pictures and then keep them trimmed up when potential customers are coming by to look.

I believe a person should show their studs in the best possible light. Taking a little bit more time to make the horse look good and get decent pictures would result in more people being willing to look at them and possibly breed to them.

If _I_ were looking, I would likely browse the OP's website for about 5 minutes and then continue on to studs that were better advertised.


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## Remali

Not having a recent trim of a horses hooves does not mean that the owner "doesn't care". Perhaps ask the horse owner about it before throwing stones?


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## KigerQueen

IF you dont brush your hair does than mean you dont care how you look? They are saying it gives potential "customers" the impression of not caring. If you go to a job interview you dress your best. Same goes for advertising a horse for sale or breeding. So square pics, a thorough grooming and a hoof trim will do wonders for advertising.


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## justpjnow

Remali said:


> Very nice horses you have! I like a good working/riding horse, a show record really means nothing to me (but if they have a show record, that is OK too).


 Thank you maam. 
I raise these horses for ranch horses, roping and using type horses. I guess if they were going to "town" to do something they would probably end up at a rodeo or jackpot team roping- not a horse show. Although several of my colts have been shown and done very well. Thank you much, P J


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## justpjnow

Remali said:


> Very nice horses you have! I like a good working/riding horse, a show record really means nothing to me (but if they have a show record, that is OK too).





smrobs said:


> Why not just go ahead and have them tested so people don't even have to ask?


Well maam, if I had all the tests done that I would like to I would be looking at over $3000 bill from UC Davis. I can't afford all that up front so I am just working on a pay as we go plan as stated above. Thank you, P J


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

justpjnow said:


> No, I have had no problems with them and have not had them tested.
> I will also say that I have no problem with getting them tested if someone wants to breed to any of them. If someone would like to breed, all they need do is pick the stud(s) they want to breed to and send the booking fee. I will immediately send in the test for Herda (including 5 panel testing) and if that stud comes back as positive or carrier of anything on the 5 panel they will immediately be refunded their booking fee. Thank you. P J


Without the 5 panel tests being on file w/AQHA, you won't be able to register the foals in 2015, just fyi. As much Poco as you have running in your lines, as a potential breeder looking for a stallion, I'd look right past them without knowing the results BEFORE I ever even inquired about the breedings.


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## justpjnow

Fort fireman said:


> I like the grulla but would probably like him more if I could see his head. :lol:


Sir, I posted numerous pictures of each stud onhttp://www.lastgoroundfoundationhorses.com


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## KigerQueen

You are selling the studs short with their pics. And maybe test 1 stud at a time? the stud that gets the most use test him first. then go down the line as you can afford it. But next year you cannot register the foals WITHOUT the test so then the registered status of your studs won't mean anything. 

Behind the Bit: Conformation photos: Tips and tricks


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## KigerQueen

Here is a good example. This mare is a not only an amazing mare but she is famous. By looking at this pic she looks like nothing special.










She just looks like a chunky fadas tb mare.



















From thought pics you would never know THIS is WHO she is and What she actualy looks like.

























This horse in Zenyatta. One of the best racing mares in recent history. If someone was to market her they would NOT use the first pics i chose of her.

A good square side shot along with a rear and front (to show off how correct the legs are) is all that is needed. You can add more "flashy" pics but the side shot, back and front are needed to properly asses the horse and people are critical. If i was going to but my mare life in danger (foaling can kill the mare in rare cases), spend money of the vet and stud fees, lose a year of major work and showing for my mare AND get another mouth to feed, im going to be EXTREMELY particular on the stud i use. Some people plan for a year or two. If they are putting in the time they want the add to reflect that. If they see a few pics of non groomed studs tooling around in the arena, they will keep looking.


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## Tryst

AQHA 5 panel test only costs $85 x 4 horses = $340, so how do you come up with $3000??


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## Fort fireman

justpjnow said:


> Sir, I posted numerous pictures of each stud on


I only saw one pic of each. I didn't go to your site to look at more and that may be a good example of why a great first impression picture is so important not just a decent one.. It"s also why having those test done beforehand can make it or break it as far as the deal goes. I don't think anyone here is trying to slam you at all or gang up on you. I think everyone is giving some decent constructive critisizm that would help you in your venture. They all look decent. With just a tad more work they could look great and be more enticing to prospective buyers.


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## Zexious

Kiger--Really awesome example. Kudos!!


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## Remali

Just sitting here shaking my head over some of the rather rude responses. Really some of you... seriously?


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## Zexious

^I really do think people are just trying to be helpful  It's hard to read tone and intent over just text. That's why I inundate my posts with smiley faces xD


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## KigerQueen

I hope op eturns to this thred. I think thay have wonderful studs and would like to see op do well in the breeding busines. I am just trying to show you the point of view of a "fussy" prospective client. If I look at a stud I want canfo shots. I have seen pics where at first the stud looks ok then after dgging for a confo shot find him to be wonky square. To not chaceaway the "picky" people having confo shots up apeases them and you are more likly to get calls on your boys.


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## Fort fireman

Remali said:


> Just sitting here shaking my head over some of the rather rude responses. Really some of you... seriously?


Sorry, I really don't see anyone being rude. I see some ideas that may make the horses more marketable for the owner.


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## Aesthetic

Smrobs hit the nail on the head in every post. 
Clean conformation shots, Tests, and cleanliness is a must when looking for a worthy stallion!


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## Bridgertrot

Is the grulla stallion actually silver+dun+black? If not it's a bit misleading (false advertisement) to label him as a silver grulla. Silver is a whole different gene. https://www.animalgenetics.us/Equine/Coat_Color/Silver.asp


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