# Being plus sized and reality checks



## Golden Horse

I'm not sure how to word this one, so I'm jumping straight in. Be aware I am typing upset and angry, something I try not to do as a rule, but I beyond upset this morning, and ask you to help me make sense of it.

As a community of plus size riders should we be above criticisms? On this board we are a small part of a bigger board, so everyone who cares to can look and see and have input, and we know that some of it is not so positive.

My question is:

As long as you are polite and truthful, should you give honest feed back on what you see?

While I agree as plus size riders we should be supportive of each other, but underneath it all, literally, is a horse who is carrying us, and to me they are the important part of the equation.

In my view, we should be treated and measured like other riders, we are NOT above criticism because we are big, in fact properly fitting tack, correct riding, right choice of horse, all these things are magnified by having a plus sized rider in the mix.

SO to me:

"Your fat *** should not be riding"

"There is no horse in the world that would carry you"

"Put down the donuts and lose the weight fatty"

Are all not helpful, BUT

"I'm sorry, but I believe that horse is just not big enough for you."

"If you are going to ride, then you would be better off in a bigger saddle"

"I don't think you should jump that horse at your current weight."

Are generally fair game.

I'm sharing this photo that is widely available on the web










If this guy was a member here asking about his horse would any one say that they are OK? I couldn't.

Making it personal and using my own pics, just for illustration.

Willow and I










Some people were very rude about me riding her, those who thought it was OK (ish) rightly pointed out that my 17" saddle and I were no longer suited to each other, some people were fine. 

She looks far better with her new owner 










The Awesome Mr Gibbs, is not tall, but is square, and I'm riding him in my western saddle, much better fit, and while there will be those who don't like it, I will be riding him










Then we get to my constant question, my Emmy










She is happier with me in the Western rather than the English, the extra weight of the saddle is balanced by the increase in weight bearing area. I am 50/50 over riding her (and it is a moot point until I get some Gibbs miles under my belt) but would hope and trust that the plus size riders would have more thought of her well being, than mine when saying yeah or nay to riding her.

If we are always saying, "Oh you look fine" then we are not being supportive, we are being ostriches, and hiding our head in teh sand.


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## CLaPorte432

GH...I am not as skinny as I used to be. Im the first to admit that, athough I am not large large, have good balance and am a good rider. but I refuse to gain anymore weight just because...my horses can carry it, but I need to lose it.

but...who in their right mind would allow that guy on that skinny horse? Holy crap!

At local shows, I do see overweight people (on ponies even...and yes...underweight ponies at that) and it makes me cringe.

But, I would most definitely speak up regarding that person on the grey arab. Thats inexcuseable. The horse is clearly struggling...Bless his heart.

You, mam, look good on Gibbs. and you look better on Emmy then Willow, IMO. Arabs are tough and she appears to be a good sized horse...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PrivatePilot

A lot of people here opt for the "say it like they see it" approach. Often that means things are said without a lot of tact, but that doesn't necessarily mean what's being said is not truthful or deserved after the fact. 

I'm not a small guy. My TBxSH that I lease is one of the smallest horses I've ever ridden as I typically have always leaned towards drafts, but I'm VERY conscious of my weight because of such, and the first 10 or 15 times I rode him I paid a whole lot of attention to his body language for signs of how impressed (or not) he was with the situation. Technically I'm around his 20-25% ratio so I'm not squashing him or anything, but I'm conscious of the fact I'm at his limit. He seems cool with it aside from ouchy feet sometimes, but he's the same with any rider that gets in him, so I don't count that, although I am aware of it and keep him on soft footing when possible. 

In the end though I have his best interest at heart. If I gained weight to the point where it was unfair for him, I'd stop riding him - not make excuses or just ignore reality. 

If after I posted a picture of us together here, someone here pointed out the fact that I look big for him (tactfully of otherwise) I'd accept it. It's the truth. I'm aware of it. I know I should loose weight - heck, I LOST 70# 3 years ago so I could get back into riding as when the 300# point was within sight at one point there's no way I would have got on any horse - it's not fair to them. I would have been "that guy" in those pics. 

I had a personal wake up call and decided that if I ever wanted to ride proficiently ever again in my life (or fly small aircraft, another passion that is surprisingly weight sensitive) I had to do something about my weight. And I did it. 

So in the end, the truth is the truth, remember that. Sometimes it's expressed more tactfully by some vs others, and sometimes people just opt to say nothing, but that doesn't change reality.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chevaux

[QUOTE:...As long as you are polite and truthful, should you give honest feed back on what you see?...]

The operative words here are polite, truthful and honest - perhaps 'tactful' could be substituted for 'polite'. 

Re truthful and honest: It's been my experience that it is much easier to make a bona fide improvement, to gain knowledge and achieve success, when one deals with facts rather than self-perceived image. 

Re polite/tactful: It is a great thing to be able successfully use politeness, tact and diplomacy to help someone who doesn't realize they need help or who can't help themselves. It is even a greater thing to carry enough humility within oneself to use politeness even though one is buffered from the consequences of their remarks.


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## Golden Horse

LOL Chevaux that is a whole 'nother debate one persons tact is another persons bluntness.


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## tinyliny

I think I have always felt it was ok to be honest about a plus sized rider being too much for a horse, here on Horse Forum or elsewhere.

If you are asking how I feel about you on your horses, I would say it depends. I know that you have experience as a rider and thus have a good, balanced seat. I also know that muscle weighs more than fat. that means that a fat person can be larger in size than a smaller, well muscled person and still have the same number of pounds for the horse to carry. it is the lack of muscle tone that can make it harder for the horse to carry, as an untoned rider is less able to help the horse by "carrying" her own weight. you know what I mean by that.


personally, I think the arab mare looks a bit strained under you, whereas the gray does not. however, watching them move would be the final determiner. 
I rode a Fjord horse the other day, like 14 hands, and I felt too big for him, but his owner did not hesitate to allow me to ride. but, it might have been my imagination or over sensitivity to being fat, but he did not offer me nearly the lively step he gave her.


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## Zexious

This is a very interesting topic!

At 5'5", 140 ish, and fluxuating between a 4-8 in clothing size, I am not a plus sized rider. That said, I am also not a twig, and could definitely lose a few pounds. I have never encountered the harsh things that were alluded to in the first post.
I have, however, had a trainer tell me that my build makes it difficult to compete in Eq classes, with riders who are twigs with miles of arm and leg. It is what it is. Honestly, I appreciate the honesty. (Teehee)

As for myself.. I would never make comments like that. I am under the impression that, unless specifically asked for (Does this saddle make my butt look big??), my opinion is not wanted. Unless a horse is in some great amount of pain, I hold my tongue. Even if it is, the owner/rider probably wouldn't be the person I say something to about the issue.


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## Clayton Taffy

I don't understand why you started this thread.
Why are you upset and angry?
Did someone say something to you? Or not say something to someone else?
Did you see something that was upsetting?


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## Golden Horse

tinyliny said:


> I think I have always felt it was ok to be honest about a plus sized rider being too much for a horse, here on Horse Forum or elsewhere.
> 
> If you are asking how I feel about you on your horses, I would say it depends. I know that you have experience as a rider and thus have a good, balanced seat. I also know that muscle weighs more than fat. that means that a fat person can be larger in size than a smaller, well muscled person and still have the same number of pounds for the horse to carry. it is the lack of muscle tone that can make it harder for the horse to carry, as an untoned rider is less able to help the horse by "carrying" her own weight. you know what I mean by that.
> 
> 
> personally, I think the arab mare looks a bit strained under you, whereas the gray does not. however, watching them move would be the final determiner.
> I rode a Fjord horse the other day, like 14 hands, and I felt too big for him, but his owner did not hesitate to allow me to ride. but, it might have been my imagination or over sensitivity to being fat, but he did not offer me nearly the lively step he gave her.


I wasn't necessarily talking about me, but didn't want to use any more random pics. If we just say 4 horses and riders

1) Man on grey horse, to me not a good match, and of he posted here would have no qualms about saying so.

2) Woman in yellow shirt on bay, also not a good match, would suggest a horse with more substance.

3) Woman in dark clothes on bay..........I have really no idea how I would view this from outside - I WANT it to be OK, but I change my mind day after day.

4) Women in pink on grey horse, looks fine for flat work and short rides, would want to ensure good fitting tack for both horse and rider and monitor the situation.



Zexious said:


> This is a very interesting topic!
> 
> At 5'5", 140 ish, and fluxuating between a 4-8 in clothing size, I am not a plus sized rider. That said, I am also not a twig, and could definitely lose a few pounds. I have never encountered the harsh things that were alluded to in the first post.
> I have, however, had a trainer tell me that my build makes it difficult to compete in Eq classes, with riders who are twigs with miles of arm and leg. It is what it is. Honestly, I appreciate the honesty. (Teehee)
> 
> As for myself.. I would never make comments like that. I am under the impression that, unless specifically asked for (Does this saddle make my butt look big??), my opinion is not wanted. Unless a horse is in some great amount of pain, I hold my tongue. Even if it is, the owner/rider probably wouldn't be the person I say something to about the issue.



LOL Zexious, you sure aren't a plus size rider, but if you posted pics of you riding a mini, you may get feedback, and that in itself is another interesting point, when a youngster is growing out of their first pony, it can be difficult for the to accept that it is time to upgrade. Back in the 'good old days' we never worried about scarring a kiddy for life by teasing them about their growing size.

The point though, is it different to tell a 'normal' shaped person that they need a bigger horse, than to tell a fat person.

It is interesting as well how to voice concerns you may have, I keep wanting to start with "I'm sorry but" well actually no need to be sorry if it is the truth.


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## Golden Horse

Taffy Clayton said:


> I don't understand why you started this thread.
> Why are you upset and angry?
> Did someone say something to you? Or not say something to someone else?
> Did you see something that was upsetting?


Oh yes someone said something, details of which are available by PM on request.


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## Incitatus32

I think you have many valid points GH. I don't know if I would consider myself to be a plus sized rider or not.... (considering I'm around 5'8 and fluctuate between 190lbs and 220lbs if I'm muscled up from working) but I think when I make a comment about anyone riding their horse I always take into account that a picture is a moment in time. I've had pictures of me and my girl that I'm sure some would be sickened by because she looks in pain, she's not though, just grumpy ;-) . The guy on the arab.... yeah he may be a bit big for her but with anyone I always keep into account that pictures don't tell the whole story. Watching the horse move and how it acts in person does. 

I've encountered some of that negativity but at the end of the day what does it matter? I know my horses better than anyone and not all of us can be built like sticks! And I'm always pretty blunt about what I think, I'd like to think that others would do the same to me. 

ps. I think you look fine on the bay arab you're on.  

Zexious: it's funny you say that about your trainer; when I did western pleasure us bigger people would use vet wrap and 'tie down' all the excess of us so that our horses looked smoother and easier! :lol:


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## Zexious

Golden--You make a lot of interesting points, for sure!
Do you think people are just too sensitive these days? While others are just too blunt?

Incitatus-- Forgive me, I'm very naive to the ways of Western riding. What does that look like?


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## thetempest89

When I got back into riding, I told my coach I was plus size. I started out on a clydes x tb. He started having some behavioral problems, so he became a lease horse only instead of lesson pony. When I met my other lesson horse, I was quite concerned about being to big for her. I never brought it up with my coach, but I don't think she would put me on her if she didn't think it was okay. 

I feel the most comfortable riding her now. I understand riding her, and I still feel like a big fat person. But I don't look to terrible on her. She never looks uncomfortable from her body language.


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## beau159

Pictures are only one piece of the puzzle. 

Granted, the large man in the grey t-shirt on the light gray horse is an obvious HUGE mis-match. 

But the pictures you posted GH, you obviously already know you are a plus-sized rider, and you keep that in mind. But I don't think that is what you are getting at. As TinyLiny mentioned, it really matters a lot by how well you ride and you can't judge that by pictures alone. Mr Gibbs appears to look perfectly comfortable. Emmy ..... maybe borderline comfortable. Can't tell by pictures alone. Would need to see videos of movement.

Even if a horse is sturdy and capable of carrying 300 pounds (just pulling a random number here), if that 300-pound rider has horrible balance and is leaning all over the place ... well the horse wouldn't do as well with that person, as it would with a 300-pound rider who _does_ have good balance and good cues and is not leaning all over the place. It doesn't change the fact that the person is 300 pounds, but it does help in the way they ride. 

Would the horse be more comfortable carrying a 150-pound rider? Absolutely and without a doubt. (You go carry a 50-pound backpack around for one hour, then take off 25 pounds and do another hour. Of course it would be _easier _carrying half the weight in the backpack.)

We've got a good family friend who's always at most of the horse shows we go to. She is quite over-weight. She knows it. (She's actually recently lost quite a bit.) But she is a GOOD rider and she rides big-boned horses. This is myself and her doing the sack race together. The video quality is not the best, but I truly and honestly see very little difference between my riding and hers. She handles her body as if it weighs less .... if that makes any sense. 







Anyway, if I would see someone post a mis-match in rider weight to horse, I'd say so. But the vast majority of people .... that's not going to be a new concept. As I said above, you already know if you are a plus-sized rider. It's not going to be new information for me to say it. And what one person views as an honest reply, the next person would view as rude. But sometimes, pictures just do not tell us the whole picture. 

Yes, it'd be easy to say: Well if you are plus-sized, why don't you lose weight? But we all know it is not that easy.


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## PrivatePilot

beau159 said:


> We've got a good family friend who's always at most of the horse shows we go to. She is quite over-weight. She knows it. (She's actually recently lost quite a bit.) But she is a GOOD rider and she rides big-boned horses. This is myself and her doing the sack race together. The video quality is not the best, *but I truly and honestly see very little difference between my riding and hers*.


I watched the video. Several times. I spent as much time watching the horses as I did the riders after the first few watches - and if you look close, the thing I noticed is that the horse that the plus sized rider was on had his ears back (and pinned a few times) almost the entire racing portion of the course. The other horse only turned back to listen to his rider, then pricked again.

That, speaks volumes. 

That's also, as I said above in my last response, the sort of thing I look for when I, as a larger rider myself, ride a horse for the first time. The horse may be doing everything you ask, sure, but it's silently speaking to you nonetheless.



beau159 said:


> Yes, it'd be easy to say: Well if you are plus-sized, why don't you lose weight? But we all know it is not that easy.


But on the flipside, it's not fair to ignore the issue and just keep riding, either. And before anyone jumps on me for that comment, I remind you all about my earlier post again when I mention I lost 70#'s so that I *could* start riding again. I now weigh 220, so do the math. When I weighed close to 300# I did NOT ride. With only a few brief exceptions (a few trail rides on drafts, and a few walkabouts) I didn't ride for over 15 years, actually.


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## Golden Horse

Zexious said:


> Golden--You make a lot of interesting points, for sure![,quote]
> 
> Thanks, I do try and get people to think and not just react, LOL sadly I sometimes fail, or my point is misunderstood.
> 
> 
> 
> Zexious said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think people are just too sensitive these days? While others are just too blunt?
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is far easier on the internet to be both oversensitive, because you react with what you think you read, or you put your own interpretation on what is said, rather than ask for clarification. I also think that people may lose their sensitivity filter because of the anonymity of the internet when they are posting.
> 
> But to me the fundamental here is that plus size riders are not, and should never be excused or given a pass because they are big. It should be acceptable to say that you need a bigger horse, as I say we say it to kids growing out of ponies, if it is a fact. It should not be done in a denigrating way, but in a factual way, if that makes sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beau159 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, if I would see someone post a mis-match in rider weight to horse, I'd say so. But the vast majority of people .... that's not going to be a new concept. As I said above, you already know if you are a plus-sized rider. It's not going to be new information for me to say it. And what one person views as an honest reply, the next person would view as rude. But sometimes, pictures just do not tell us the whole picture.
> 
> Yes, it'd be easy to say: Well if you are plus-sized, why don't you lose weight? But we all know it is not that easy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> :rofl::rofl: This is true, we do know how big we are, it's not like you are going to say to me "You're fat" and I'm going to look in the mirror and say "WOW, you're right, how did I not know?"
> 
> 
> 
> PrivatePilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> But on the flipside, it's not fair to ignore the issue and just keep riding, either. And before anyone jumps on me for that comment, I remind you all about my earlier post again when I mention I lost 70#'s so that I *could* start riding again. I now weigh 220, so do the math. When I weighed close to 300# I did NOT ride. With only a few brief exceptions (a few trail rides on drafts, and a few walkabouts) I didn't ride for over 15 years, actually.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You say that like you maybe believe that Deb Bennet is correct that 250 pounds is the maximum any horse can carry? While yes we would all do better to lose weight, if we are carrying extra, 300 pounds is not a limit, it does cut down the amount of horses that are available to you. Every 10 pounds you lose means more horses become available to you.
> 
> There are some great pics here somewhere of the Hiphophorseman The Horse Forum - View Profile: HipHopHorseman he is a BIG guy, I mean tall and solid, but I have no issues with him riding, with the pics he posted. He will have far less mounts to choose from than the 100 pound teenager, but he found a good one!
Click to expand...


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## PrivatePilot

Golden Horse said:


> You say that like you maybe believe that Deb Bennet is correct that 250 pounds is the maximum any horse can carry? While yes we would all do better to lose weight, if we are carrying extra, 300 pounds is not a limit, it does cut down the amount of horses that are available to you.


I don't think that there's a magic number, but there are limits. A draft is not necessarilly a magic solution either as most of us know here that it's a bit of a misnomer that they can carry a bigger rider. 

I subscribe to the 20/25% rule personally and with tack and gear probably push that boundary with my current lease. However, like I've said, I would put the wellfare of a horse ahead of my desire to ride. I didn't not ride for 15 years because I didn't want to, I didn't ride because I knew it would be potentially unfair to the horses, nor could I ride at the skill level I wanted to with the body I had.

But still, there comes a point. The "dead" weight of a rider is one thing, but all the dynamic forces involved in riding can multiple those weights twice over, or likely, even more during a spirited ride. Example, try lifting a 50 pound sack of potatoes. Now do it while skipping rope.

And AGAIN, before anyone gets insulted (not my goal, but I am speaking my opinions) I still weigh in excess of 220 pounds right now, so I'm speaking in the plus size forum AS a plus sized rider.


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## Golden Horse

PrivatePilot said:


> And AGAIN, before anyone gets insulted (not my goal, but I am speaking my opinions) I still weigh in excess of 220 pounds right now, so I'm speaking in the plus size forum AS a plus sized rider.


Not insulted at all, whatever your size you are entitled to your opinion, and you should express it, especially they way you have put it.


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## DimSum

Golden Horse said:


> Oh yes someone said something, details of which are available by PM on request.


(internet hugs) PM me my friend...


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## DimSum

PrivatePilot said:


> But still, there comes a point. The "dead" weight of a rider is one thing, but all the dynamic forces involved in riding can multiple those weights twice over, or likely, even more during a spirited ride. Example, try lifting a 50 pound sack of potatoes. Now do it while skipping rope.


That is true, plus balance and seat can make a huge difference in how a given horse travels with a bigger rider. Before I lost weight I weighed more than my beginner spouse  but since I have ridden all my life I was much more balanced in the saddle. He on the other hand was very stiff and not "in tune" with the horse's motion and it was totally apparent when he rode. The horse in question was all of 16 hands with good bone. I could ride him with no issues, but when the spouse got on the gelding's motion changed dramatically.

For the OP...I hate to resort to a meme but here is one I think applicable:


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## farmpony84

This really is a touchy subject. I know that a lot of stables and trail ride type places have limits on the weight a rider can be. I know because my dad was above the limit to ride a horse in the grand canyon. He wasn't quite as bothered by it, but I was offended. He's not a HUGE man. He is positively overweight but had he been in perfect shape, I think he would have been over the limit anyway. I think it was 250. My husband is 6'2 and in a size 34 waist jean, he's 220. He rode our old walking horse for years and never had an issue. Black horse carried him with ease. Now that old horse was a big boned, tall, muscular dude though.

He has been riding my sons walking horse lately and she's a finer boned girl but she's still 15'3 and solid, she carries him with ease. I believe he is going to take over Riley as his riding horse in the spring.

Now my niece is 5 feet and when we hauled out to a place to ride, we had to rent a horse for her. This place keeps two horses that they reserve for larger riders. I assume they are foundation QHs. That's what they look like, they are big butted short and stocky beasts. I bet they are only around 14'2 hands but they probably weigh close to 1200lbs. She rode one and it carried her fine, but I felt like she was too big to ride. 

See, I think the difference is in the muscle tone. If you are heavy but solid, then you don't seem to be as much of a burden. There are larger riders that are Excellent riders and the horse doesn't look to struggle at all to me. There is a girl that I know who has something wrong with her (don't know what) and she steadily gains the weight. She was told by the trainer she uses that she is too large to ride. She can't even ride the horse she owns, the trainer won't let her, so she does the showmanship and halter classes in show. She's a good rider but she doesn't argue the fact that she can't ride. I can tell by watching her that it breaks her heart but she seems to understand. (She's also a little slow - again, not sure what her disabilities are). She rides arabs though and they really are small fine boned animals. 

This subject is so touchy.


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## PrivatePilot

farmpony84 said:


> I know that a lot of stables and trail ride type places have limits on the weight a rider can be.


We travel a lot and I see this in a lot of places. I wholeheartedly agree that it's a touchy subject, but in the end the commercial trailride facilities do this for the betterment of their horses. Big riders are harder on the horses, trail riding facilities cater to those with little or zero experience (AKA bouncy and hard on the horses backs), and the riders will probably never see that horse ever again so they're indifferent if the horse comes up lame 24 or 48 hours later.

If it was an ATV or something mechanical I could understand debating a weight limit that might seem overly conservative, but when it's a living breathing animal for whom your livelihood (Their business) relies upon, I wouldn't fault them for that decision. I'd be the first to admit I'd do the same thing if it was me.


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## Golden Horse

It makes absolute sense to me that commercial riding centres would put a limit on each horse they have, Daisy 100 pounds, Dandelion up to 175 pounds, Milk Weed 200 pounds, or whatever. Each and every rider should be weighed and horses allocated to the right riders, to me that is not a 'fattist' it is only fair on horses and staff, no value judgements, no "you look to fat" it isn't any more discriminating than this











:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Well you know the ones I mean.

Again there are less weight carrying horses and a stable may simply not have a weight carrying type, and they don't have to keep them!


BUT...PrivatePilot this


> Big riders are harder on the horses,


 is simply NOT true in every case, once again at a commercial type trail place a quiet, well balanced larger rider may be less wearing on a horse than an energetic skinnier know it all who is all over the place!

LOL, how my brain works: Typing that makes me wonder about introvert and extrovert horses, and do they really exist? I am an extreme introvert, I need to work alone, social settings are expensive to me,in terms of energy, and if I had a pillow right now I would smother my Extrovert husband who is talking, and talking, why does every thought in his head have to make it out of his mouth?? Are there horses who gain energy from interacting with us, and those who just find us draining?


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## Viranh

Plus sized riders are a touchy subject. I think that particularly if you are heavy, you should attempt to be pretty fit before you get on a horse. I hate to say that, but I can't imagine how uncomfortable it is to have nearly a third of your body weight bounced on your back or moving around generally out of sync. I think the extra weight is much more acceptable on a good, fit rider than a beginner. If you've never ridden before, aren't in shape, and weigh something like 300lbs, you should probably consider the gym before getting on a horse. That doesn't necessarily mean lose weight, just that you should be able to carry yourself in the saddle, ie be fit. It is very possible to be fit and heavy, even fit and fat at the same time. I always feel very sorry for little, under muscled horses with very heavy, sloppy riders. It looks like torture. :-( They're living animals, not a bicycle or a 4 wheeler. 

That said, I think nearly anyone can ride a well built horse at the walk for short periods of time. Also, you certainly aren't torturing Mr Gibbs. He looks perfectly comfortable with you, and as long as you both build up to faster gaits, I bet you'll be fine. The bay looks like she doesn't quite have the required fitness, but I bet with some work on the lunge line and shorter walking sessions with you, she'd get there. If your posting trot is steady, I imagine short trotting sessions would be ok too. You don't seem like the type to just hop on her and go trotting down the trail for 8 hours straight or anything. It all comes down to being conscious of your weight and fitness level and the comfort and fitness of your horse. Being 100lbs isn't required for riding, but you do have to structure your riding differently than a 100lb teenager. Sounds like you know this and are doing your best, have an appropriate horse, and are taking things slow. *hugs* People can be mean.


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## Golden Horse

Viranh said:


> If you've never ridden before, aren't in shape, and weigh something like 300lbs, you should probably consider the gym before getting on a horse. That doesn't necessarily mean lose weight, just that you should be able to carry yourself in the saddle, ie be fit. It is very possible to be fit and heavy, even fit and fat at the same time. I always feel very sorry for little, under muscled horses with very heavy, sloppy riders. It looks like torture. :-( They're living animals, not a bicycle or a 4 wheeler.


Very good point, and one we often overlook, just come back to mind now I am attending therapy to get this body going again, I have a lot of fitness work to do while it is cold out, fit and fat is much easier to cope with than floppy and fat



Viranh said:


> That said, I think nearly anyone can ride a well built horse at the walk for short periods of time. Also, you certainly aren't torturing Mr Gibbs. He looks perfectly comfortable with you, and as long as you both build up to faster gaits, I bet you'll be fine. The bay looks like she doesn't quite have the required fitness, but I bet with some work on the lunge line and shorter walking sessions with you, she'd get there. If your posting trot is steady, I imagine short trotting sessions would be ok too. You don't seem like the type to just hop on her and go trotting down the trail for 8 hours straight or anything. It all comes down to being conscious of your weight and fitness level and the comfort and fitness of your horse. Being 100lbs isn't required for riding, but you do have to structure your riding differently than a 100lb teenager. Sounds like you know this and are doing your best, have an appropriate horse, and are taking things slow. *hugs* People can be mean.


Yeah, Gibbs is and will be fine, he is my way back to bravery, fitness and all sorts of things, I thank God that I have him. The bay Arab, we will continue working on our relationship on teh ground, and I am aiming that my confidence, and fitness arrive in about 30 pounds less time!! Then I will feel good about starting with her.


Ironically the thing that upset me so much was not an attack on my size and weight, but the accusation that I was attacking someone else over theirs. The person who I was negative about, wel a lot of her issues are not weight related, you find unreliable and unpleasant people both skinny fat and somewhere in between. But I remain convinced that it is not in the best (something can't remember the word) of the larger riders to overlook issues that do happen.

Again I want to start this sentence with 'sorry' but it is not needed, It is a fact that some people are too big for the horse they are riding, and I don't that helps to pretend that isn't so. Same with tack, if your backside is overhanging your saddle, then you should be upgrading t a bigger one, or shrinking back into the one you have 

Again, the pics were just for reference, I can't imagine that there is anyone that thinks that all 4 pics show a good horse and rider match

I know that there will be some who believe that none are a good match.

Most people seem to say #2 isn't OK, and there is a split decision on #3.

When it comes down to it, we will all make out own decisions, but it is always good to have feedback to either take on board or ignore as we choose. This from another plus sized rider....


> Hating on other large people is essentially hating on yourself - I hope you've got a good therapist, if not, find one. Good luck in your journey to being a better person. I hope you will begin it soon.


Has me so upset that I am still churned up about it.


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## TrailTraveler

As a plus-sized rider, I used to worry about how I looked on a horse, too; and then I found a study that did the math for me. 

According to American researchers, horses that routinely carry more than 20% of their body weight tend to have more health issues than horses that carry less. So a good rule of thumb seems to be, a rider plus tack should weigh less than 20% of the horses weight. (E.G., a horse that weighs 1000-lbs. should be able to comfortably carry up to 200 lbs.; and a horse that weighs 1250 lbs. should be able to comfortably carry 250 lbs.) 

I suppose your riding discipline (hunter/jumpers/barrels/endurance vs. backyard fun/Western Pleasure) also has some bearing on the weight issue; but by and large (no pun intended!), using the math ratio has given me some reassurance about my horse's well-being.


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## waresbear

I also think the horse's fitness level comes into play when carrying riders. Some horses are in better shape, have a stronger, conditioned topline and are in overall better shape and have more stamina.


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## Golden Horse

TrailTraveler said:


> As a plus-sized rider, I used to worry about how I looked on a horse, too; and then I found a study that did the math for me.
> 
> According to American researchers, horses that routinely carry more than 20% of their body weight tend to have more health issues than horses that carry less. So a good rule of thumb seems to be, a rider plus tack should weigh less than 20% of the horses weight. (E.G., a horse that weighs 1000-lbs. should be able to comfortably carry up to 200 lbs.; and a horse that weighs 1250 lbs. should be able to comfortably carry 250 lbs.)
> 
> I suppose your riding discipline (hunter/jumpers/barrels/endurance vs. backyard fun/Western Pleasure) also has some bearing on the weight issue; but by and large (no pun intended!), using the math ratio has given me some reassurance about my horse's well-being.


The trouble with research is that most of it has been such small scale, the 20% study was on 7 pasture fit horses, I would love to see it repeated on a larger scale, with fit horses, it would be interesting. You should also check out the studies done on horses competing in the Tevis Cup, showed that endurance horses can carry up to 30% without issue, LOL but then the UK study was suggesting 10 - 15%. 

I think that you are so right about discipline being important, it must alter the loading.



waresbear said:


> I also think the horse's fitness level comes into play when carrying riders. Some horses are in better shape, have a stronger, conditioned topline and are in overall better shape and have more stamina.


Quite, LOL I have seen before people thinking they are fine because they fall in the 20% rule when you have an unfit larger rider, on an unfit overweight horse, it is not a pretty sight.


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## PrivatePilot

Ok...this is getting interesting.

Without mentioning my exact weight (yet, anyways) here's a pic of me (on the left) on my lease TBxSH gelding. I *feel* big on him, but after riding Clydesdales and Belgians for the last long while that's not surprising I guess, but I'm also keenly aware that size aside, weight is more of my issue.










(Larger pic available by clicking here: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7413/11741069776_bb916d399e_h.jpg)

Excuse my piano hands, but the photo was snapped at an inopportune moment. When is a decent photo ever exactly as you'd like? 

But, back on topic...Given his weight, and mine, I'm probably technically too heavy for him, but (as is evident in the pic) his attitude doesn't yell at me that he's particularly bothered by me, even when we're cantering or galloping. 

So, do I *look* OK on him, or are looks deceiving here?


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## beau159

PrivatePilot said:


> if you look close, the thing I noticed is that the horse that the plus sized rider was on had his ears back (and pinned a few times) almost the entire racing portion of the course. The other horse only turned back to listen to his rider, then pricked again.
> 
> That, speaks volumes.


Valid point made, but we do know that there are horses in this world who "pin" their ears when doing performance events, such as gaming. I would not suspect that her horse is in any pain, as she is a vet tech and takes superb care of her horses. And the horse may very well be pinning his ears due to her weight .... but maybe not. :wink: He might just be an ear pinner. Her 10-year-old son also rides this horse, and he's a skinny little thing. I'll have to pay attention in the coming year in the horse does that with his ears when her son is riding him. 



PrivatePilot said:


> But on the flipside, it's not fair to ignore the issue and just keep riding, either. And before anyone jumps on me for that comment, I remind you all about my earlier post again when I mention I lost 70#'s so that I *could* start riding again. I now weigh 220, so do the math. When I weighed close to 300# I did NOT ride. With only a few brief exceptions (a few trail rides on drafts, and a few walkabouts) I didn't ride for over 15 years, actually.


Again, another very valid point. But on that point, I don't feel like I am "qualified" to be in a judgemental position to tell a person that they need to work harder at losing weight before they can ride. I don't know the situation at home, or health issues, or who knows what that has ultimately caused the weight gain. I applaud you for making the decision not to ride until you had lost the weight, but I think as long as the horse is comfortable carrying the rider, then it is not my place to decide if one should quit riding until weight is lost. 

Very interesting discussion, nonetheless.


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## beau159

PrivatePilot said:


> So, do I *look* OK on him, or are looks deceiving here?


Well since I would classify you as an "average" person and not as plus-sized, I think you look okay on the horse. Granted, you horse has finer bones and is built thin, but like I've mentioned before, the still photograph doesn't tell us the whole picture. It's be a better judgement call if we could see how well you ride and move with the horse. Although he does quite seem to be enjoying his job!


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## PrivatePilot

beau159 said:


> Well since I would classify you as an "average" person and not as plus-sized


I carry my weight well, but I carry a lot of it. I think you'd be surprised.

I don't have any good video to post or I would perhaps do so, but when I was in lessons my coach mentioned somewhat routinely that I have a nice soft seat, so I have that going for me - and him. However, compared to a lot of the other horses I've ridden I've always found Simon (the horse in the pic) has a particularly rough trot (confirmed by his owner) so I can't post him as smoothly as some other horses I've ridden, but that's making me work harder I suspect to ensure I'm not beating him down...and comparatively, I think I'm still moderately soft on him despite my size. A better rider could without doubt be a lot smoother, though.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I was a bit paranoid riding him at first - although when you come from a Clydesdale, any "regular" horse seems small, but I paid a lot of attention to his body language over the first many rides and listened to him. He seems pretty cool with me, so we've turned out to be a decent match for the the time being until a draft lease comes along. They have a 2yo Perch who I'll be eyeballing once he's started. 

But, if I gained 40#, I wouldn't be riding him anymore either, not kidding myself that I could do so without negatively effecting his health. Yeah, he's probably still willingly haul my butt around, but I wouldn't feel right about it.


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## muumi

Okay... Here's another side of the coin. I've been lurking here, but afraid to post, as I am whenever a 'am I too big?' thread pops up. But I feel maybe my opinion may add a perspective.

I am not plus-sized. In fact, in the interest of honesty and calling a spade a spade, I'll admit I'm skinny. Yes. Why is that do hard to say in this context? And because of that, I feel as if I'm not 'allowed' to comment on an issue that involves someone else's weight, for fear of sounding patronizing/rude/inconsiderate/whatever so I bite my lip. 

I often look at a thread and think to myself, 'too heavy for that horse', but rarely comment, in case someone looks my picture up and tells me my opinion is biased based on the fact that I'm thin, and that I couldn't possibly know anything about the matter. 

I feel as if plus sized people feel discriminated against, and my opinion, would be discriminatory. 

But on the other hand... Are we/I becoming too sensitive about weight in general that we/I are even considering the word 'discrimination' ? 

When I think about people who were discriminated against and persecuted because of their race/religion/sex... Can we/I really place weight into that category? It seems so... The word isn't petty.... But I can't find the right word. 

Does any if this make sense? 

So from my point of view, I would love to be more up front, but feel as if I would just be met with righteous anger and defensiveness.

Ps. While I'm on a roll, here is something that perhaps 'bugs' me that people tend to say. That good but heavy riders are easier on the horse's back than a light but beginner rider. This is true, but seems like comparing apples and oranges. 

To be truthful, shouldn't we compare beginner riders to beginner riders, and decent riders to decent riders? And then we cannot deny that more weight, if all else is equal, will have more of an adverse effect on the horse, physically, than less weight? That makes more sense to me. Just physics.

Not saying anyone here is particular is to big for their horse (see how scared I am of backlash!), or that I think plus sized people shouldn't ride! It really depends on a individual, horse and rider basis, who is a good fit for who.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## muumi

All of the above was pretty hard to type out on my phone, so pls excuse my penmanship!  definitely not the best written argument, but maybe someone can make something out...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chevaux

In response to muumi's line of thought on sensitivity, discrimination and physics, I'll share this story (it's true - I used to work there): One of our department's responsibilities was to replace bulbs in, repair, etc., street lights. To get up there you needed to use a lift machine that I think is commonly referred to as a cherry picker. The problem with this was that a couple of the electricians were too large, because of obesity, to get in the machine cages/baskets. So now their ability to do all of their job (as described in their position descriptions) has been compromised. We were fortunate in that there was another electrician who could fit in and was able to do the job but had we have been a smaller organization, that could only keep so many staff on the payroll, what would have been the future of the heavier employees? Is it a case of discrimination to have let those two employees go because of their physical situation? Is it a case of discrimination to deny these employees jobs or job advancement if they are restricted in what they can physically do (recognizing they have the appropriate training and knowledge)? Or is it simply a realization that we all have individual limits and we either make adjustments, if we can and if we can't make adjustments then maybe we are prevented us from doing some things (I can, for example, guarantee you that even if I trained with absolute dedication and the best of trainers, I would never be able to play professional major league football because of my lack of "physical presence").


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## Hang on Fi

The problem only arises (imo) when someone lacks sensitivity and tactfulness. 

WE know we are large. Undoubtedly most of us are in question as to whether or not our horse can comfortable carry us. I know I am. However, nothing has ever been said to me (but once) When I was maybe 13, 180lbs and riding a 14.1hh pony... The judge told me I had "Outgrown her." but still commended me on the team we made. She subtly told me I was too big for her by suggesting I look for a horse to "upgrade on." Instead of saying "You're too fat for your horse, find one that fits you better." I read between the lines (because I acknowledged I was overweight even then) and understood her words. 

What "I" don't understand, is why we (as females) get all the attack on being too large for our horses. Why don't people ever say anything to man? We see them galloping around on physically immature quarter horses in reining. Yet no one says anything? But, we post pictures and get attacked "That poor horse, you're going to split his spine!" 

I "Do" believe one should recognize when one is too big for their horse. I am sharing a picture, that I really don't want to, but we are all vulnerable at some points. Read my bolted text next, carefully.










*I am very well aware I am to large for this horse, I mean I'm eye bulging too tall and beyond his 20% and the angle of the picture makes it even worse. That being said I'm balanced on him when I ride and don't exceed 15 minutes of riding, he's sorta gaited (he can't make up his mind) so it makes it somewhat easier on him. I refuse to ride him hard or very long for the sake of my weight ratio for him. *

Here's the little man trucking me along at a horse show, I never got one word of my weight on him and it could be as simple as not opening myself up to someone saying it. I didn't sit on him between classes, soon as we left the ring, off I went. The only time I sat on him was right before we entered the ring. He was warmed up via lunge-line. 






Granted this isn't a horse I ride every day, I don't even ride him weekly. Why do I ride him in the first place... Let me say *reluctantly*, my Mom won't ride him unless she can see him worked with me (which is okay for short periods of time, she has been a show/lesson Mom for 20 some odd years, she knows the stuff on the ground, but applied to saddle she needs help... And confidence.)

That being said, I think it's impossible to find it suitable (unless you have the personality) to tell someone if they're too large for their horse. I just don't think there is any tactful way to do it without upsetting them. 'Course a horses health is undoubtedly more important than someone's feelings. Those of us who are overweight, are aware of it, are sensitive about it, and probably hate ourselves for it. Telling us to "Grow a thicker skin" just doesn't help. Telling us to drop the cheeseburger doesn't help.

Muumi made a good point. She hesitates to post on weight related posts because of the stereotype she'd be slapped with for claiming someone is too large because she's skinny. 

End of all of it... I think it is a lose/lose situation. You can't not hurt someone by saying you think they're too big for their horse. I wish I could explain things better, but being a thicker rider I know what it feels like to worry about your weight and riding your horse. Heck, I flinch when I canter Fiona because I fear I will cause her discomfort. ( I am on route to successfully losing my extra poundage, but doesn't help in the meantime


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## muumi

Very well said Hang on Fi! Sensitivity and awareness (of the self and to others) is the key.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Golden Horse

muumi said:


> All of the above was pretty hard to type out on my phone, so pls excuse my penmanship!  definitely not the best written argument, but maybe someone can make something out...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I started to reply on my phone, but gave up, so congrats on your post!



> I am not plus-sized. In fact, in the interest of honesty and calling a spade a spade, I'll admit I'm skinny. Yes. Why is that do hard to say in this context? And because of that, I feel as if I'm not 'allowed' to comment on an issue that involves someone else's weight, for fear of sounding patronizing/rude/inconsiderate/whatever so I bite my lip.


Now here comes a conundrum, this is the 'plus size' area of the board, so there is a part of me that says "go away skinny" :lol: But it IS an open board, all can view and why shouldn't you comment? As to sounding rude or whatever, that is a challenge for all of us, what ever our size, gender, race, religion or creed, the way each individual types, and the ways that we all interpret that message, well the most benign and innocent comment can be misconstrued. Personally like the fact that there is an area where we fluffies can exchange thoughts and ask questions, our issues are particular to us, and things like trying to find an english tall boot to fit an xxxwide calf can only be appreciated by others who have fought the same fight.

There is also the fact that some skinny people simply do not understand that we are all different, our bodies work differently our battles with gaining or losing weight are all individual. People coming in and saying "Just lose the weight" they probably mean well, but may not understand the battles that some have.

Having said all that though, your opinion, as long as you accept that it is given no more 'weight' hehe than any other persons is OK.



> Ps. While I'm on a roll, here is something that perhaps 'bugs' me that people tend to say. That good but heavy riders are easier on the horse's back than a light but beginner rider. This is true, but seems like comparing apples and oranges.


I understand why you get bugged by it, yes it is a bit like apples and oranges. If you look at the 3rd pic though, given that combination, a rider, a competent rider of that size would be an easier load for that mare than a beginner of the same size. It is part of the whole equation, and a valid point to make.


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## muumi

Golden Horse said:


> Now here comes a conundrum, this is the 'plus size' area of the board, so there is a part of me that says "go away skinny" :lol: But it IS an open board, all can view and why shouldn't you comment? As to sounding rude or whatever, that is a challenge for all of us, what ever our size, gender, race, religion or creed, the way each individual types, and the ways that we all interpret that message, well the most benign and innocent comment can be misconstrued. Personally like the fact that there is an area where we fluffies can exchange thoughts and ask questions, our issues are particular to us, and things like trying to find an english tall boot to fit an xxxwide calf can only be appreciated by others who have fought the same fight.
> 
> There is also the fact that some skinny people simply do not understand that we are all different, our bodies work differently our battles with gaining or losing weight are all individual. People coming in and saying "Just lose the weight" they probably mean well, but may not understand the battles that some have.
> 
> Having said all that though, your opinion, as long as you accept that it is given no more 'weight' hehe than any other persons is OK.


Haha, yea very good point! I shouldn't be on here! I do browse through the forum by 'new posts' and not by section, so often won't realise what section I'm reading without checking. But of course, unless filtered somehow, this part of the forum is open to all, as are all the other sections. I don't normally reply to plus sized threads, out of respect, and the reasons I mentioned, but thought since the question being posed involves 'everybody' in a way, that perhaps 'everybody' should have a say... Would perhaps lead to more understanding and sensitivity? 

Especially since we all have a common goal... Enjoyment of our equestrian ventures. 

Anyway. I'm sorry for making anyone uncomfortable if I did! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Golden Horse

muumi said:


> Haha, yea very good point! I shouldn't be on here! I do browse through the forum by 'new posts' and not by section, so often won't realise what section I'm reading without checking.


So do I which is how I've found myself posting in the Teen section before, LOL


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

Here's a slightly different angle for this thread. Before I post, I'll admit that I'm a plus sized person and I haven't ridden for pleasure, ie trail not show, in over 4 years. I just haven't had the time for it. 

Now for my angle. 

When did we start needing to ask anyone's thoughts or permission to ride our horses? I mean, I own 10 horses. 4 of them are under saddle and I'll ride any of the 4 without even thinking about it. I trained 'em or am the one who rode them while they went to an outside trainer, so why would I now ask if it's ok with anyone else if I ride them? They vary in size, 1 is about 14.3 and a fairly delicate looking Arab. 2 are 15.2 or better, one is an Arab and one's a QH. The QH is stockier than the Arab but neither is what I call light boned. The 4th is over 16 hands and is predominantly Saddlebred and very well built. I didn't start the 14.3 Arab, but the trainer was 6'7" and over 300 lbs if he's an inch. She carried him fine and though I'm plus sized, I'm no where near that plus! I started and trained the Saddlebred from the ground up, the QH got started by an outside trainer that I still use and he's about 5'3" and 135 if it's raining, HARD. LOL! The 15.2 ish Arab was started by the 6'7' trainer so again...no issue for me. I have good fitting tack for everyone, I'm not comfy if they aren't comfy, so it pays in the long run to make sure everything fits and has plenty of padding. I've been riding for more than 40 years, so I'm a good rider. 

I show a LOT. LIke maybe 40 out of 50 weekends and I've yet to have a judge say anything to me about "suitability of horse to rider". I ribbon in the top 5 or better almost every time I ride, so I'm thinking the judges don't have a problem with me riding the ones I ride either. 

I'm 56 years old, stiff and arthritic and I no longer ground mount out of courtesy for the horses back and for my knees & hips. I do believe those of us who are 'fluffy" need to be a little more courteous of the horse, hence mounting blocks, nice still seats and maybe a thicker blanket than we used to use, but really, I think it's up to the person riding to make the call for whether they should ride a horse or not. 

I wouldn't allow my 5 year old, 40 lb nephew on the first grey horse in the pics, that horse is way under fed and not fit to carry a pillow, IMO. Once he's fed up and conditioned well, then I'd think he could carry the rider ok, for a not too demanding trail ride. 

The 2nd horse, the OP decided to rehome that one because she felt unsuited as a pair. Good enough, I don't question her judgement. 

3rd horse, the OP is comfortable on and looks good on. If that's a happy pairing, I'd stick with it. 

4th horse, again, if it's a happy pairing I'd continue to work on it. If you feel like you overpower the horse with your size, then maybe not. I don't have a doubt that she can carry you comfortably. 

If we don't get out and ride and use our muscles and burn some calories, how will we ever get to a point where we do feel comfortable in our own skin and on our own horses? 

Pilot, you're a lot of guy. I'm guessing from your length, you're close in height to the trainer I used to use, though at 220 you are definitely lighter. I'd don't consider you a plus sized rider any longer, except if you count over 6'3" as being plussed.  

GH, if anyone dared to diss me on my own horse, they'd get told to shut up unless they wanted to buy him and take over his care. NONE of their business. So, go ride, enjoy your horses and keep working on getting fit. It's the best thing we can do for ourselves and for our horses. 

Oh, and I put my money where my mouth is, I bought Goldie because they had a rider on her about the size of the guy in pic #1. She was 2 and underfed and a little stunted in her height. I couldn't stand it. Now, she's just come 3, she's 14 hands, 795 lbs and in June I'll send her out for training with the new trainer who's a small guy. Until she's well fitted I won't get on her, but once she's fitted, she's a stocky little thing, I won't hesitate. 



















This is what Goldie looked like back in Aug when I bought her. When she came into the ring, you almost couldn't see her for the tack and the guy riding her.


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## TrailTraveler

Golden Horse said:


> The trouble with research is that most of it has been such small scale, the 20% study was on 7 pasture fit horses, I would love to see it repeated on a larger scale, with fit horses, it would be interesting. You should also check out the studies done on horses competing in the Tevis Cup, showed that endurance horses can carry up to 30% without issue, LOL but then the UK study was suggesting 10 - 15%.
> 
> I think that you are so right about discipline being important, it must alter the loading.
> 
> 
> 
> Quite, LOL I have seen before people thinking they are fine because they fall in the 20% rule when you have an unfit larger rider, on an unfit overweight horse, it is not a pretty sight.


Obviously, the 20% Rule of Thumb should be applied with some common sense: Discipline is really important. I wouldn't think an overweight rider using the 20% rule would be silly enough to try to jump an overweight, unfit horse. But I could be wrong ....

As a trail rider, I think the 20% rule is fine; and if a rider is on an overweight, unfit horse, then I should think that s/he would get the horse into condition before doing an endurance event -- in which case, the horse would no longer be overweight or unfit. 

The proof of the pudding is how the horse feels, of course, and that's something that can only be discerned with time. As with any work-out, start light and work your way up. 

And as for that 10-15% UK Study: There would be a lot of HOMELESS horses bound for the slaughterhouse if we went by those recommendations. I'd rather have a Plus-Sized Rider using a horse than dooming it to death because there was no one "fit" to ride it.


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## MissAllySunshine

*So Many Valid Points*

Everyone on here as made so many good valid points. 

For the longest time I had lots of "issues" about if i was too heavy for certain horses, but I never had them until we bought a Arab named Dusty who we planned on showing in western pleasure. he was a bigger boned arab, around 15'1 hands or so. I was still new to showing horses (he would of been my first) so we believed his "trainer" (who we also bought the horse from) who we were paying to work with us. Had him for a year and I was never once on his back, finally out of desperation we decided to take him to a friend for training, when she quickly noticed the horse had EPM...when we called our old trainer he said the horse could not of had EPM that I myself must of rode him and hurt him. Even tho we had 2 vets telling us he had EPM. Ever since then i constantly worry. I'm in love with arabians, and i hear alot of different opinions. I own a 14.2 arab who i will not ride makes me feel like a absolute troll, even tho he did carry me fine when my trainer forced me on his back. He stood up straight and ears foreward the whole time. 

As a plus size rider I think any of us can tell when a horse is uncomfortable. Its just common sense if ur horse is standing off balanced and u have to constantly kick and try to force it into a trot or a canter. Ur probably to heavy. when you mount even with a mounting block , does it have to step sideways and catch itself from falling because you cant pull urself up quick enough, u need to get some strength before riding. Are you constantly going sideways on your horse and bouncing with no rhythm, then you probably need to get in better shape and work on that before you ride because you could be causing serious damage to your horse. 

SHould you give up because someone puts you down? No. we all ride and show horses because we love it. ANd no one should take that away from you because i know i lost my way because of what someone said but i do put my horses first. My almost 16 hand paint horse when i ride him i can barely get him to slow down, his ears are foreward and we go over everything (even jump) and he never misses a beat. he is in good shape tho, i conditioned him for a long time, we can run up hills and he does not have to stop at the top of the hill and catch his breath. (and i have a fat ***! ) Just read what your horse is telling you. And if we look a little frumpy while doing it, oh well people think we look frumpy off horses anyways lol.

No i am not saying we should jump, barrel race, or any kind of hardcore riding. But things like trail riding, pleasure riding, western pleasure. Most of us if we are balanced, have core strength to stay balanced and can read how are horses are feeling, will be fine. 


Plz we dont need any of this 






I do feel sorry for her tho, and i hope she gets healthy so she can ride a horse because she obviously wants to really bad. 

Sorry for the rant and rave...my new years resolution was to gain my confidence back


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## yidete

Well, where I ride, there have been several times when this issue has had to be addressed However the situation there is probably unlike any barn in ''normal countries'', it was originally created as huge facility for training children in soviet times(think 100 heads and not a single bit of pasture, apparently grazing and any sort of moving around when not under saddle was considered a capitalist fad) and now it houses a very colourful crowd, having both sportsmen, independent trainers with or without lesson horses they own, horses available for rent, casual boarders, folk who do therapeutic riding and the random guy who just likes to drink his beer while looking at that fat pony. In such environment everybody has an opinion, so distinguishing what's ok and what's just random is a tad difficult.

My trainer has been strict enough about how much each of the horses she uses at that moment could carry. I have never been considered plain too heavy for anyone, but at my heaviest 160-170 pounds with some of the older guys we have limited the time and intensity.
Another lady however was limited to one particular horse of the 4 my trainer used back than, a 17hand something Budyonny, that had many qualities of a tank (both the good and the bad ones, he was the only horse I have ever seen who, if lead right into a wall in a trot would actually try trotting into the wall instead of trying to avoid the collision) and after two or so years abroad, when she returned, the trainer though admittedly uncomfortable about that had to turn her down, as she considered none of her horses fit for her size. Technically Dancy, the one I'm riding in the photo is even bigger than the ''tank'', deffinately more close to 18 hands and might be heavier as well, his history of hind leg injuries ruled out any really heavy riders, I was about as much as he could handle comfortably. The lady took it well though and agreed that for now she will stick with horse photography.
We do have issues with husbands of trophy wives every now and then. Basically it goes like this. The big business man gets his young and pretty sweetums a nice horse, provides trainer that also acts as a caretaker, pays vet bills, sweetums gets pretty good of a rider and is happy, everything is golden. Then mid life crisis hit's the businessman and he decides he wants to be a bit of a cowboy, so one day he turns up and decies to get on sweetums' horse. And gets really puzzled why trainer is against it, because ''That's a horse, right? If honey can ride it, why can't I?''
Luckily in a stable of 100 where most know most, there is usually at least one really big brute, that can be borrowed/rented for those 3-4 times that it usually takes for them to realize they are not jumping yet and will not be in next 5 lessons, so they give up. Most of them aren't even that overweight, it's just in this end of the world men just come so large, that for many 200pounds are nearly their optimum weight.

Adding a photo for scale to show that relatively large horse can still be limited in the weight it can carry, not sure if his wonky hind leg can be seen, but it was a strong limiting factor. also pardon my riding, I bet there are plenty of things wrong :-|








Yet I wouldn't probably try to adress situation with a horse on a different continent via internet, unless the topic had been ''How do you think, should I buy this horse or look for a larger one'' or similar (bacically OP adressing the question in already awareful manner)


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## Bellasmom

I think, as women, we stress too much about our weight. A 200 lb man is not a plus size guy and nobody looks askance at a man that size on a horse. John Wayne was a BIG guy and nobody ever said "geez, he's too big to be horseback". Alot of females on this particular forum are no heavier than a average sized male(I am among that group) and are always worried about whether or not they are "too big" for their horses....why?


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## Inga

MissAllySunshine said:


> Fat Lady Falls Off A Horse - Large Woman Can't Get On The Horse - YouTube
> 
> I do feel sorry for her tho, and i hope she gets healthy so she can ride a horse because she obviously wants to really bad.
> 
> Sorry for the rant and rave...my new years resolution was to gain my confidence back


I try to be very nice to people when they want to ride horses. I think there are several people that are very rude when it comes to weight on horses. Some are downright ridiculous. I even saw one person saying anything over 150 pounds was too much. Really? With Saddles? Truly, that would leave MOST people off of horse riding. Almost all men for sure. I think horses can carry more then 150 pounds but I think it is unfair of people to expect a horse to haul us around when we are too darn lazy to even get into shape ourselves. I think a person can be 150-175 pounds and still be in fairly good shape, move gracefully and be balanced. When you get to the size of the woman in that video... That is just unfair to any horse to expect them to haul her around. It is also very dangerous. What would have happened had she got her foot caught in the stirrup or the horse spooked and ran when her weight hit it's back. She would have toppled off backward and likely gotten hurt BAD. It is one thing to fall when you are in shape it is another to land like a ton of bricks because you simply can't move well yourself. 

I have mentioned on other threads that I was thin most of my life. When I got Cancer, I went through Chemo, radiation, 3 major surgeries and I put on 70 pounds. I am tall for a gal and I guess I carry it well because most people doctor included think I am crazy when I say I want to look that same 70 pounds. Doctor thinks I should aim for 25-30. I was too thin before BUT nothing hurt. Since I put on that weight, I am all too aware of the damage carrying the extra pounds does to my knees, hips, ankles etc.. If it hurts ME to carry the extra weight, I am 100% sure it isn't fun for a horse either. I have taken some of that weight off but I am still aiming for the 60 of the 70 pounds. My goal is to not hurt so much.


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## Inga

Bellasmom said:


> I think, as women, we stress too much about our weight. A 200 lb man is not a plus size guy and nobody looks askance at a man that size on a horse. John Wayne was a BIG guy and nobody ever said "geez, he's too big to be horseback". Alot of females on this particular forum are no heavier than a average sized male(I am among that group) and are always worried about whether or not they are "too big" for their horses....why?



Because woman are always being judged by each other? I agree though, I don't weigh even close to 200 pounds yet but feel like a horse myself. I have always felt too big for this or that, in part because I am fairly tall. When I weighed 101 pounds I felt too big to ride my friends 15 hand Arabian. Part of me knows that is ridiculous but another part of me swears she saw the horse roll it's eyes when it saw me coming. ha ha
We THINK we are being judged even when we are not. We THINK it is somehow alright to judge others, but it is not. 

I tend to think... what ever you are is find as long as you are alright with it, and it doesn't hurt anyone else. That includes the horses.


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## flytobecat

As someone mentioned before there is a difference between being fit and fat and unfit and fat. I don't see how an unfit person would be comfortable riding a horse. There is a lot of stress to your joints and back in riding, and you need good core strength. I know I noticed a difference in my riding when I started going to the gym (which I need to start again).
I did tell a friend of mine that he was to large to ride my horses. Both are around 14 hands and somewhere in between 900 and 1000 pounds. He was a 6 foot 3 around 300 lbs and built like a linebacker. I wouldn't have said he was overweight though, but I feel I personally push the weight limit with my tack. So no way was he riding my horses.


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## PrivatePilot

Inga said:


> It is also very dangerous. What would have happened had she got her foot caught in the stirrup or the horse spooked and ran when her weight hit it's back. She would have toppled off backward and likely gotten hurt BAD. It is one thing to fall when you are in shape it is another to land like a ton of bricks because you simply can't move well yourself.


That's what I was thinking....you can be heavy but still be an effective rider, but there comes a line (clearly crossed in that video) where you can't realistically do even the very most basics of riding. 

She can't even mount, much less likely hold her body stable during any sort of movement, so how did she plan to dismount? If she can't mount, is she really going to be able to do a proper dismount? How would she have got off?

I suspect that this was a lady who had little to no exposure to horses before this and didn't have the slightest clue about what she was even getting herself into, and presumably the handler just didn't want to embarrass her. Perhaps the goal was to just get on for a few photos and then get off (without ever moving), but again, it was impossible to do anything safely, so at some point someone should have (tactfully) said that it she shouldn't even be attempting it. 

Would she have got mad? Possibly, but I'd like to think that most people of that size have an understanding that there's some things in life they can't do because of their size, end of story. When I weighed 280 myself I wasn't able to ride some of the rollercoasters I had once loved, but I didn't try anyways and then have an angry outburst at the poor kid running the coaster because I wouldn't fit and it was somehow someone elses fault.


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## Inga

I think that I have handicapped myself by always mounting from the left side of the horse. I was thinking that to me, that video looked so...awkward anyhow, even taking the size away from her. Getting on from a truck bed onto the right side of the horse... Just seemed off. I know I have gotten on the right side just to get the horse used to handling things from the right but I don't do it often. 

As far as dismounting, I see people all the time, lean forward, slide their leg over the back of the horse and sort of ooze down to the ground. Some, with a very large thud when they hit the ground. I don't think that woman would have made for a graceful dismount regardless and I still believe that was a recipe for an injury. I think for her sake, and the horses, it was best she was unable to get on.

She did seem very sad/discouraged at the end of the video, she also seemed to know the person doing the video. I wonder, how she felt about them putting it up on Youtube for all to see, especially with that title. Many of the comments are very cruel. Whether a person has thick skin or not, they must be painful to read and I find myself feeling bad for her. When I was a skinny little twig (which was most of my life) I had no understanding of how hard it was to lose weight when you have put it on or how your own body can fight against you in that manner. Now that I do understand, even trying to drop a few pounds My heart breaks for people in those situations.


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## DimSum

I watched that video and went to the gym for an hour and a half today.


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## DraftOn

I am no skinny Minnie. Nor am I near it. But if I know a horse can Not handle my weight, then I won't get on it. I own a draft cross and an American curly horse. My draft is about 17 hh. So he is a good size and he fits me well. My curly horse is 15.1. He's not big but hs stocky. So I know he can handle my weight. 

I do believe people are very judgmental and horse people are the worst about it. Because they speak their mind, and alot of them don't believe plus sized people should even own a horse. And I have had many comments about it. But I ignore them because I know if my horses were in pain I wouldn't ride them
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinyliny

how about this rider? horse is about 14.3 maybe 900lb? or tops 1000. rider is close to 200lbs.

(don't worry, I have permission to post this photo)


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## waresbear

That horse looks absolutely fine packing that person, and by the way, she looks great on that horse.


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## flytobecat

tinyliny said:


> how about this rider? horse is about 14.3 maybe 900lb? or tops 1000. rider is close to 200lbs.
> 
> (don't worry, I have permission to post this photo)
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 351625


Tiny, I think the rider looks fine, but then I'm about 225 lbs with my tack riding two 900lb to 1000lb horses. I've rode my girls up and down steep trails, and they seem to handle my weight fine.


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## Saddlebag

It's not just whether or not a person looks too heavy for the horse. The heavier the rider plus tack, the more it takes it's toll on the horse's joints. Some horses will even develop a condition called road founder from trotting or cantering on hard ground or a road. Founder doesn't happen just from rich grass. An overweight person also has a different weight distribution than a slimmer rider.


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## MN Tigerstripes

I am a thinner person who hesitates to post in the "Plus sized" forum as well, but after reading this thread several times, I can't manage to shut my mouth, so here goes. 

Honestly, on Willow you are too much, Gibbs you are fine, and Emmy I think will be fine with a little more fitness on her part, maybe yours as well. You already know all of this though, you're an aware rider from what I have gathered over the last several years and you are always thinking of your horse's health. Horses can carry different weights and most of them will let you know when they aren't comfortable. By the 20% rule Soda should be able to carry 260 lbs, but after having a 230lb rider on him I can tell you that he was not impressed and let me know. Now Lily should only be able to carry 160-180 lbs based on the 20% rule. I'm close to 150 and she has never faltered or given me any sort of indication I am too big for her. I had someone riding her who was 170lbs and she was completely fine then as well. 

I think people do have a tendency to be far ruder to someone who is overweight and too big as opposed to someone who is not overweight, but is still too big for their horse. It's like being "big" gives people some green light to be nasty. Of course, there are still others who won't say anything in fear of being too mean. Most of us have something that we are ashamed or embarrassed of that has been brought up in a not so nice way by someone else, so we are loathe to be "mean" even if we aren't being mean, just honest and thoughtful. 

Look at this picture of me on Lily: 









I AM big on her, I can literally wrap my legs around her barrel (when she isn't obscenely fat and I am doing yoga so flexible :lol and no one in the world would tell you that I look right on her. Yet, not once has anyone ever said anything to me about riding her and I ride her hard. Now, I know that she is fine, I am very aware of her comfort and quite frankly she's a brat and would let me know that she wasn't ok carrying me around. But just going off looks? I look like I'm too much. 

I'm not saying we should bite our tongues when a plus sized rider is on a horse that they are to big for, but we should be kind and mindful of what we are saying. Something we should be doing with everyone. You can speak your mind and be kind.


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## DancingArabian

MN Tigerstripes said:


> I am a thinner person who hesitates to post in the "Plus sized" forum as well, but after reading this thread several times, I can't manage to shut my mouth, so here goes.
> 
> Honestly, on Willow you are too much, Gibbs you are fine, and Emmy I think will be fine with a little more fitness on her part, maybe yours as well. You already know all of this though, you're an aware rider from what I have gathered over the last several years and you are always thinking of your horse's health. Horses can carry different weights and most of them will let you know when they aren't comfortable. By the 20% rule Soda should be able to carry 260 lbs, but after having a 230lb rider on him I can tell you that he was not impressed and let me know. Now Lily should only be able to carry 160-180 lbs based on the 20% rule. I'm close to 150 and she has never faltered or given me any sort of indication I am too big for her. I had someone riding her who was 170lbs and she was completely fine then as well.
> 
> I think people do have a tendency to be far ruder to someone who is overweight and too big as opposed to someone who is not overweight, but is still too big for their horse. It's like being "big" gives people some green light to be nasty. Of course, there are still others who won't say anything in fear of being too mean. Most of us have something that we are ashamed or embarrassed of that has been brought up in a not so nice way by someone else, so we are loathe to be "mean" even if we aren't being mean, just honest and thoughtful.
> 
> Look at this picture of me on Lily:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I AM big on her, I can literally wrap my legs around her barrel (when she isn't obscenely fat and I am doing yoga so flexible :lol and no one in the world would tell you that I look right on her. Yet, not once has anyone ever said anything to me about riding her and I ride her hard. Now, I know that she is fine, I am very aware of her comfort and quite frankly she's a brat and would let me know that she wasn't ok carrying me around. But just going off looks? I look like I'm too much.
> 
> I'm not saying we should bite our tongues when a plus sized rider is on a horse that they are to big for, but we should be kind and mindful of what we are saying. Something we should be doing with everyone. You can speak your mind and be kind.


I think there's a difference in being too big (heavy) for a horse and being too big (too tall or too disproportionate) for a horse.

I think you, (MN Tigerstripes) don't look too heavy for that horse but you do look too tall for her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MN Tigerstripes

There is a difference, but they are both harder on the horse than a "perfect" match. I have to balance myself carefully to avoid over balancing her when I ride and it does require more work from her to keep "under" me. Like I said, I don't ride light, we are trotting, cantering, galloping, turning, circles, serpentines, so on and so forth. She rarely tells me it's too much and the times that she has it was a saddle issue as opposed to a me being too much issues. 

I'm about 16.67% of her weight. My ex, who rode Soda, was 17.7% of his weight. Very comparable, but the Soda was noticeably unhappy with my ex, who was not more than 10 or maybe 15 lbs "overweight." Lily never has an issue with me, nor the heavier riders who ride her. It is very individual and I think that while the 20% guideline is something to keep in mind when you don't know a horse, you first and foremost need to pay attention to your horse. 

My main point was that where people will say something to a plus sized rider in a pretty rude manner oftentimes, they generally won't say anything to a non-plus sized rider who is underhorsed. Or if they do say something to the non-plus rider it's couched in kinder less harsh terms.


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## flyingewe

Yup Tigerstripes...I agree completely. We are less kind to overweight gals...

To answer your original question Goldenhorse.... I would say that unless you were asked for your opinion, you should not give it. If you were asked, then I hope you would be able to find kind and careful words to use. Not easy but why should it be?

Just because we want to be blunt doesn't mean that is the right thing to do. When did being blunt become cool, or appropriate? I must be old because I don't think it is either of those things. You can be truthful and still be kind.

I find that the ladies on this forum are the most unkind to themselves. I am fat, but I'm not a blob, or a whale, or any of the words some have used to describe themselves. Learn to be kind to yourselves first, and it will be easier to be kind to others. 

Oh dear, did NOT want my post to turn into a lecture and for that I apologize. But not for my words.


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## Loba

I am posting here for the first time. I am a plus size rider, that said.. I believe a lot of it has to do with how fit the horse is as well. Age, and fitness level of animal and human should be considered. I have seen that most "guys" doing reining weigh about the same i do BUT i'm 4' 8" and i just don't carry it the same as they can  I am working to get into shape and only feel comfortable riding 10 15 mins at a time. But i condition condition condition the horse with saddle and with out.


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## bsms

A few comments:

1 - The 20% rule originally came from the US Cavalry. Their concern was with horses ridden perhaps 15 miles/day normally, and who sometimes had to be ridden 40-50 miles/day for 4-6 days in a row. Very few recreational riders keep a schedule like that!

2 - The 20% study I've seen involved horses who were not ridden for 4 months, and then were ridden for an hour every 2 WEEKS - so the horses were NOT in fit riding shape. My horses would have a tough time carrying me (180, so around 215ish with tack) if I left them unridden for 4 months. Also, the stress level when the rider's weight went above 20% wasn't very great. It just meant the horses' backs were tired. Duh! If I went 4 months without lifting anything, an 80 lb bale of hay would kick my butt too!

3 - Horse conformation. I've got a 13 hand mustang whose legs are almost as big around as my 15.2 mare's - and Mia is not the dainty Arabian type. Cowboy's back is short, and he can share a saddle with Mia. He's built like a tank.

I guess his weight at no greater than 700 lbs, so my riding him hits 31%. He has galloped with me for 10 laps around our little arena and not even breathed heavily at the end. However, he is also obviously working harder to adjust his balance in turns compared to my other horses.

Right now, he is rarely ridden - maybe 1/month tops, so he is out of riding shape. I wouldn't ride him for more than 15 minutes right now, and would feel bad about riding him over an hour or so even if he was in riding shape.

My 15.2 Arabian weighs 900 lbs, so I'm at 24% with her. She has never shown any reluctance, nor has she ever shown any indications of being sore after a ride. FWIW, I don't think I've ever ridden her over 4 hours, and most rides are around 1 hour. 

I had a little Arabian mare we sold a few years back over my objections. She probably weighed under 800 lbs, being thinner than Trooper who is 830 lbs. She was green broke when I started riding her. That put me around 28% of her weight. The first few times I trotted with her, she was awkward with her balance carrying me. Then she figured it out, and never showed any signs of being uncomfortable. I never rode her for more than an hour, but she was an enthusiastic and willing horse. I wanted to keep her and sell Trooper (they fought each other constantly), but my family voted to keep Trooper.

Trooper and I would be at 26%. He is 3/4 Arabian. If I ever bothered his back, he hid it well - apart from when I was learning to canter on him. And that was all rider error...

He showed more resentment when my 100 lb DIL was learning to canter with him than he did with me. Once she learned to move with him instead of "bouncing the canter", he was fine with her.

4 - Time and activity. Jumping obviously can put more pressure on joints than walking. Running a barrel pattern obviously puts more strain on a horse than jogging along a smooth trail. A good fitting western saddle distributes weight over a larger area than an English jump saddle. One cannot make a rule based on a percentage without asking about tack, what the horse is being asked to do, how long, etc.

In the picture below, my wife asked me to ride Cowboy for a few minutes because she wanted to make sure he wouldn't act up after a long spell without being ridden. I rode him for about 10 minutes in the too small for me saddle, and this picture was taken going uphill. I felt awkward, and I'm sure he did as well. My wife was leading Mia, and after 10 minutes we switched. I rode Mia and she rode Cowboy. The second picture shows her riding him the following day.

I look pretty hideous on him, but the truth is that he has never complained about carrying me. Nor has he acted sore afterward. I'm pretty sure that if we worked up to it, he could carry me fine - walking and trotting for an hour or so. But we would need to work up to it, and I'm too big for him if we were going to do much more than stroll along. With practice, I'm sure he could easily carry my wife all day.








​ 









For comparison, Mia & I:​







​ 
I fully understand a commercial business imposing specific weight rules. For individuals, I think it is best to THINK about it - what horse, what rider, what activity, how long, etc.


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## Zexious

I would think the best people to converse with about this would be a vet, right?


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## Chevaux

Zexious said:


> I would think the best people to converse with about this would be a vet, right?


 Maybe if their knowledge/theory is current/well rounded and they at least occasionally ride a horse so they have 'field' experience upon which to further develop an opinion.


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## PrivatePilot

Zexious said:


> I would think the best people to converse with about this would be a vet, right?


I don't ask the mechanics about how to do my preflight calculations, or fly my airplane.

Not an exact comparison, but I trust you see the point - not all vets are likely to be riders. A mechanic might know all the nuts and bolts in my aircraft (perhaps/likely even better than I do), but ultimately I know how it flies, it's intricacies, what it will and won't do (aside from what's on paper), etc etc.


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## hemms

I agree that the critical factors are horse fitness + rider fitness. 

With that in mind, GH, I feel that your first mare looked more fit in her photo than your second does, in hers. Oddly enough, Willow looks less sexy (to me, anyway) with her new rider, lol.

In regards to addressing this topic online or in person, tact is key or backs rise and ears close. I think entire perspective is important. I cringe when people send their scrawny, barely 2 year olds to full grown (+/-200 lbs) men. I see said men riding said horses in shows... I am not going to say anything. Nor will I say anything to those who send them. What you won't see is my scrawny (coming 4) youngster under a full grown man for his education. I'm happy to see evidence of my own convictions influencing the thought processes of friends who are slowly rethinking doing things 'the way they've always been done'. 

An adult, riding any horse without compassion - whether it's size, hardware or general abuse will never gain my endorsement through silence. I will not hound someone, but I will say my peace and remove my presence.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Golden Horse

flyingewe said:


> Yup Tigerstripes...I agree completely. We are less kind to overweight gals...
> 
> To answer your original question Goldenhorse.... I would say that unless you were asked for your opinion, you should not give it. If you were asked, then I hope you would be able to find kind and careful words to use. Not easy but why should it be?
> 
> Just because we want to be blunt doesn't mean that is the right thing to do. When did being blunt become cool, or appropriate? I must be old because I don't think it is either of those things. You can be truthful and still be kind.
> 
> I find that the ladies on this forum are the most unkind to themselves. I am fat, but I'm not a blob, or a whale, or any of the words some have used to describe themselves. Learn to be kind to yourselves first, and it will be easier to be kind to others.
> 
> Oh dear, did NOT want my post to turn into a lecture and for that I apologize. But not for my words.


LOL, you see the last part, you apologize for the lecture, but not your words, but is that because the thread invites feedback?

As to


> To answer your original question Goldenhorse.... I would say that unless you were asked for your opinion, you should not give it.


 well there is the rub isn't it, IF you saw someone who was way to big for their horse, doesn't matter if you are talking about this obese granny, or the 6' tall perfectly proportioned person trying to ride a Welsh Section A, should you not speak up on behalf of the horse?

When you choose to ride in public, share your story or picture in public, or anytime when you are seen on a horse, you risk discussion, it is going to happen. That discussion may be with you, or about you, and we all preen when people say "what a great rider" "love your saddle" "hey look at this person and the relationship they have with their horse"

Of course the other side if the coin is people will also say negative things, some warranted some not, it is just life, and like the positive opinions, well they are just that opinions. 

As to being hard on ourselves, well maybe, I am not fat, I am obese, and you know as much as I scream and cry about it, as much as it depresses me it is actually a choice. Yeah there you go I say it, I choose and I keep choosing to be unhealthy, because fat is unhealthy. It's obviously more complicated than that, but yeah, I have been thin (ner) I chose to take that journey, and then chose to go back to old habits and be fat again.

Now I cannot choose to change fundamental things about me, I am shrinking, I will not get taller again that is age at work, I am greying, that will not change, unless I dye it, but my weight, well I just have to choose each and every time I eat, do I want to eat this or be slimmer. That isn't haring on me, that is being truthful to me.







Zexious said:


> I would think the best people to converse with about this would be a vet, right?


Sadly no, depends on your vet, not all are born or trained to an equal standard.




hemms said:


> I agree that the critical factors are horse fitness + rider fitness.
> 
> With that in mind, GH, I feel that your first mare looked more fit in her photo than your second does, in hers. Oddly enough, Willow looks less sexy (to me, anyway) with her new rider, lol.


Hehehe, she is doing well, seems like Willow loves to jump, and she is getting on great



hemms said:


> In regards to addressing this topic online or in person, tact is key or backs rise and ears close. I think entire perspective is important. I cringe when people send their scrawny, barely 2 year olds to full grown (+/-200 lbs) men. I see said men riding said horses in shows... I am not going to say anything. Nor will I say anything to those who send them. What you won't see is my scrawny (coming 4) youngster under a full grown man for his education. I'm happy to see evidence of my own convictions influencing the thought processes of friends who are slowly rethinking doing things 'the way they've always been done'.
> 
> An adult, riding any horse without compassion - whether it's size, hardware or general abuse will never gain my endorsement through silence. I will not hound someone, but I will say my peace and remove my presence.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Amen to the big men and scrawny 2 year olds, not a good look, however traditional it is. LOL, you know that last time I lost all the weight is so I could put the first rides on young Maximus, at 4 years old, because I wanted that frame finished and solid before he carried anyone.


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## SammysMom

PrivatePilot said:


> When I weighed close to 300# I did NOT ride. With only a few brief exceptions (a few trail rides on drafts, and a few walkabouts) I didn't ride for over 15 years, actually.


Hi, Pilot. I'm curious -- did you think you were unfit to seriously ride any horse, or did you just not have regular access to a horse of the appropriate size?


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## PrivatePilot

SammysMom said:


> Hi, Pilot. I'm curious -- did you think you were unfit to seriously ride any horse, or did you just not have regular access to a horse of the appropriate size?


It was a combination of compassion for the horses, and the fact that I knew I just couldn't be a proficient rider beyond "just sittin' there", really...at least at the skill level I was at back then.

Now, I'm a vastly better rider than I was, but even though I have the skill and fluidity now to move with the horses better and be less of a deadweight lump of potatoes on their back, I still don't think I would do it if I weighed that much since the mechanics of _being_ a fluid rider require a certain fitness level, as I think most horseback riders would agree. I wouldn't have had it back then even if I had the skill, in my own personal opinion.

At the very least, had I chosen to ride anyways, I know I would have been stonewalled by my lack of fitness and "centre of gravity" issues. 

I'm now riding a spirited warmblood who is taking me to a whole new level and I know for a fact that there's no way in heck I could ever have ridden a horse at that level at my previous weight. The amount of physical work she is to ride never fails to amaze me, and my balance and strength is tested every ride on her.

Had I been satisfied never progressing beyond a certain point I guess that would have been OK, but that's not the type of person I am - I alway strive for forward progress. I would have dropped out of formal lessons long ago knowing that all I wasn't ever going to be able to meaningfully progress.


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## Saddlebag

The 20% rule should still apply as a guidline. A horse isn't really designed to carry weight but to throw his weight into a harness. Too much weight on the back and a horse can develop road founder.


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## bsms

Why should 20% apply? It wasn't developed for recreational riding use. Why should I believe all three of my horses are ridden by too heavy riders when there is no sign whatsoever that it is true? If Mia finds me too heavy at 24%, she sure has hidden it...for over 5 years!


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## Golden Horse

The 20% rule is not a rule, it is a widely held but really unproven figure, a bit like the 8 glasses of water a day.

And as we have seen from other threads, some people consider that a short obese person even at 20% is considered a worse choice than a normally proportioned person who may be nearer 30%.

If the research done on the horses competing in the Tevis cup is sound, then horses can carry up to 30% in the most testing of conditions without any measurable harm. Remember that these horses will have carried that weight over many miles of conditioning as well as the race proper.

SOME horses will only be able to carry 20%, some more some less.

I also refute that horses were designed to pull, I do not believe that either God or natural selection designed the horse to do any more than graze and try not to get eaten. Once man became involved in the selection process we then produced horses to pull, to run fast, to ride, to carry knights in armour, we also produced the halter horse which appears to have no function apart from look pretty. Lots of different shapes and types of horse, some better at being ridden than others, some better at weight carrying than others.


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## Sapph

Golden Horse said:


> The 20% rule is not a rule, it is a widely held but really unproven figure, a bit like the 8 glasses of water a day.
> 
> And as we have seen from other threads, some people consider that a short obese person even at 20% is considered a worse choice than a normally proportioned person who may be nearer 30%.
> 
> If the research done on the horses competing in the Tevis cup is sound, then horses can carry up to 30% in the most testing of conditions without any measurable harm. Remember that these horses will have carried that weight over many miles of conditioning as well as the race proper.
> 
> SOME horses will only be able to carry 20%, some more some less.
> 
> I also refute that horses were designed to pull, I do not believe that either God or natural selection designed the horse to do any more than graze and try not to get eaten. Once man became involved in the selection process we then produced horses to pull, to run fast, to ride, to carry knights in armour, we also produced the halter horse which appears to have no function apart from look pretty. Lots of different shapes and types of horse, some better at being ridden than others, some better at weight carrying than others.



All of us plus size riders should unite and thoroughly test the weight ratio and it's impacts on different builds of horses, then develop a breed of horse that will be healthy and carry weight optimally. FOR SCIENCE.


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## Dustbunny

"All of us plus size riders should unite and thoroughly test the weight ratio and it's impacts on different builds of horses, then develop a breed of horse that will be healthy and carry weight optimally. FOR SCIENCE"

Someone has done that. I think the critter's name is Harley. : )


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## stevenson

neither myself or hubby are light weights,but not to the size of the people pictured. but IMO that man on the grey .. No. to large. and if it was my horse, there would be no way. 
The lady well, only if doing lite riding like a walk, unless she knows how to balance well, her horses appear to be stouter and larger.


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## Saddlebag

When horses were being enlisted for WW1, many came off huge land grants 
and weren't rider fit. A team of veterinarians came up with the 20% rule to be fair to these horses. Keep in mind most men then were maybe 5'8 on average and slim. Add all their gear and they'd be close to what was felt ideal. The thing is a horse's back has a relative small strength bearing area for the length of it's back. Ideally, the rider's body should be easily contained within this area and not spread out fore and aft. This is why horses can carry a heavier rider that fits fairly well within that area. For those who think the horse may not be uncomfortable or in pain and await a response to tell you so, it many never happen. Horses block out pain, a gift nature gave them to survive predator attack. The weak or lame are the ones that get picked out and become dinner.


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## PrivatePilot

Saddlebag said:


> For those who think the horse may not be uncomfortable or in pain and await a response to tell you so, it many never happen.


I've seen more than a few drama queens over the years that might disprove that.











> "Owww owww, my foot hurts, ouchie... Hey, someone look at me? I'm standing here in the corner of the arena and my rider is ignoring me despite the fact I'm clearly favouring one leg. HELLOOOO....? Someone take pity on me and put me back in my nice warm stall with my hay, would ya? I know you just got on and I haven't actually even broke a sweat yet, but c'mon. I promise I'll keep the act up at least as far as the door to the arena, but if I suddenly then prance like a lipizzaner all the way to my stall it's just because I'm excited for my hay and those treats I smelled in your pocket that you were planning to give me, OK?"


 :wink:


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## Cacowgirl

I had an Arab/Appy/ QH gelding that was a real drama queen. But he was so talented & had so much training that is was worth working through his issues.


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## Saddlebag

Pilot, I was speaking in generalities. I've seen sore horses seem sound when ridden by children yet cannot deal with the weight of a heavier rider. Each has it's breaking point of tolerance.


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## MN Tigerstripes

My gelding is definitely a drama queen. The pony not so much, you have to be a very aware rider to realize when she isn't comfortable.


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