# Bucking problems... and taking off problems... Just PROBLEMS!!!!



## Bandera (Jul 31, 2010)

okay the video isnt working...
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## Bandera (Jul 31, 2010)

not working either.... lol ill upload vidoes from youtube but


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## ImagineThat (Sep 18, 2010)

Have you checked for soreness, ulcers, and saddle fit? Those would be the first 3 things I would rule out. I rode a horse who was very grumpy and would kick out when you put leg on him... he was diagnosed with ulcers.


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

I would rule out back pain and tack checking. Ensure nothing is hurting her bit, tack, boots etc anything then look at her life style how much turnout and feed.
Then get a good instructer and look at you cause if there is no visible issues it most likely is something your doing self conciously


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## Bandera (Jul 31, 2010)

Checked for ulcers and didnt have any, saddle fit, bridle fit, and boots are fine. My trainer checks her back every week and its never sore. i ride with a trainer and my trainer also rides my horse when she is being bad. my trainer rode grand prix dressage so i trust her. Oh and we have had about 4 lameness checks on her, 2 done by UC davis and she had mild hock and mild navicular problems all of which were addressed (injected) and we have had checks after and she has been 100% sound. here are some videos!











In that video when i first start canter and im coming around the corner it looks like i gave her the reins but she bucked and threw me forward.... : / i might get some more videos of her from my lesson today which was outside so she is a bit more crazyyyy..... lol


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## equestrian (Oct 12, 2010)

No advice but I LOLed at your trainer, "Get in her sh!t!"


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## alaskapacker (Nov 28, 2010)

She's not bucking, she's kicking out. Big differance. That mare is not having fun, not enjoying going 'round and 'round in circles, is frustrated and bored. It's written all over her body. I have 4 horses right now that the owners have come to me to help with here, and every one of them had the exact same problem. They are mentally fried by the arena and bored to tears. We took them out, are going on some very long, diverse relaxing rides and putting fun back in their lives. They are doing great. It does wonders for attitude, fun does. Isn't that why we got into horses in the first place? Fun? And not just our fun, but theirs too?

You may already trail ride, I don't know, but I would balance what you like to do on horseback with an equal amount of whatever it is she likes to do. That's what builds a partnership. Give and Take.

PS - I apologize if sometimes my posts sound almost a little too ...lecturing? I don't mean it that way. I have 7 children of my own that I have taught/am still teaching horsemanship, plus clients over the years. I'm just not always sure how to communicate thoughts on a keyboard and computer without it coming across as the "Daddy" I am. I don't wish to offend.


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## Bandera (Jul 31, 2010)

I know she is getting bored but right now she needs to get over it. My mare was used to being jumped every day and i had to put her in dressage training because she was becoming unsafe and missed solid training as she was pushed to hard to fast i.e. she was jumping 3'6 UNDER SADDLE when she was 4. I cant trail ride her because she spooks and takes off and my mom wont let me jump her until i can do my 1st level test with her. For a normal horse the stuff i do with her should not be boring, we only circle a lot when she is being bad other that that we do some upper level dressage movements with her so she doesnt become bored. I want her to have fun and i want to have fun but i want to get somewhere with this horse as she has a lot of potential.


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## Bandera (Jul 31, 2010)

equestrian said:


> No advice but I LOLed at your trainer, "Get in her sh!t!"


Hahaha i know lol i do love my trainer


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Both times the issues occured going left. ONly left? no problem going right?
I thought you rode throught those bucklets very well. She is not really bucking so much as kicking out. And I can see what you mean in that you don't have her in front of your leg. Are you working hard to keep your leg off her? Might be better to have your leg on more . 
I don't think it's just a matter of being bored with arena work. I think there is some sort of discomfort. It looks like she gets her hind feet kind of tangled up, like she is trying to switch leads in the rear and then changes her mind and goes back to the correct lead. Got to be some sort of pain. She goes so nicely at trot.


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## Bandera (Jul 31, 2010)

Thanks! She does try to switch leads a lot in the hind end. Right is worse than the left normally but that day the left was worse than the right...mares... She lunges fine and doesnt swap her hind leads then and she is sound at the trot and sometimes she does it and and sometimes she doesnt so i dont think its lameness. We have had her checked about 5 times and the only thing that comes up is right hind weakness which has gotten a lot better. Could it all just be behavioral and is so what can i do to get her to stop?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I don't think it's attitude. She may be overreacting now because in the past there was pain assiciated with cantering. I wonder if you could do some cantering where you are in a bigger circle, like the whole arena and really push her to move out. She might buck a bit at first but maybe go THROUGH the behaviour to a freer movement. Don't do small circles for abit and just let her really go forward, disregarding any kicking out. Act as if it never happened but just put your leg on and GO!
When you ride, I can see the slightest of a chair seat. It's really minimal and it's part and parcel with the horse being behind the leg. It could be that she throws you into the positions when she kind of "pronks" with her head up, like in the video. I could totally see myself having much more trouble than you maintaining my correct position. I may have some minor advice, but that doesn't mean I could do a better job in the saddle.
Anyway, try freeing her up with some good forward on a reasonabley loose rein. Maybe try it with the kind of light seat you would have with a young horse whose back is weak, kind of a half two point. 
Just a thought.


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## Strange (Jan 11, 2009)

Lol she reminds me exactly of my old mare, whom I bought as a 6 year old and had this very same problem. 

It was extremely frustrating to deal with, and my mare loathed dressage as well and it was the only time she would act out. It got to where every time she kicked out I'd give her a hard pop with the dressage whip and continue on like nothing had happened. If I asked her to do something (i.e. pick up the canter) and she kicked out, I'd pop her with the whip, get her to settle, then ask again. She finally realized that kicking wouldn't get her out of doing what I asked. She grew out of it quickly after I started dealing with it that way.


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## Daphne (Dec 23, 2011)

You know what the problem is? I actually have the same problem with my horse, trail rides definetly WILL help some, and to get her past the spooking, don't react to her spooking, keep her moving forward, and dont let her make a big deal of it. By reacting she knows that the 'scary thing' isn't okay, because mommy's scared of it, i will be too. Other than that, Shes getting ring sour. Shes getting tired of doing what your asking her to do and not being released, as well as not being rewarded for it. Give and Release is the key to everything, and gets you far. WHat i mean by rewarding, is taking little battles, on the days that she does REALLY good make a HUGE deal about it, praise and pat her big time for it. On the days she isn't having such a great day, if you get ONE circle, or around the whole arena WITHOUT a buck or kick, make a HUGE deal of it ! and i mean HUGE ! She'll soon learn that behaving will give her pleasure, because she is being rewarded for behaving. TOO many riders and trainers almost always NEVER realize that a horse ISNT just a horse, its a being, just like a human is a being. Just like a human, horses need to be both disciplined and rewarded for good behavior. Another thing that i find does wonders is taking the horse out to the pasture every now and then bareback, or with a saddle, and putting the reins down on the horses neck letting the horse freely moves where it wishes. THIS actually teaches the horse that its completely OK for the horse to be relaxed with a rider on its back, sneak in little commands here and there. if the problem arises at the canter only, do the same thing, nudging the horse here and there with your legs to avoid obstacles. This will teach the horse how to have fun again in riding, as well as that you actually trust the animal. Hope this goes well, and if it doesn't some techniques don't always work for every horse.  May i ask what you've done about the horse taking off on you that you've mentioned? My horse does the same, she locks her neck up, and snaps it in the direction she wants to go in, and bolts there, it takes me getting fully out of the saddle, completely on the side of the saddle i wish her to go in and my hand close to the bit on the rein JUST to whip her head back around. have any sugguestions there?


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## MySissyGirl (Dec 12, 2011)

Maybe have a chiropractor look at her.


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## Daphne (Dec 23, 2011)

Too expensive for me.  What are you thinking it might be ? i can have a few horse people look at her that've been training horses for years.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Chiropractor is not expensive & solves a myriad of problems & rules out others. If you can't afford under $200 on your horse, then enjoy the kicks & bucks. My horses have never kicked, bucked, reared, or anything like that. Regular saddle fitting, chiro, and teeth floating keeps pain issues from becoming riding issues. True, some horses kick out if a hair crossed under it's blanket, but keep your horse comfortable, attend to him like an athlete like he is and watch how you ride and I doubt you will have kicking, bucking horses. I never have.


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

I think you have a simple issue that's easy to fix. She needs desensitized from head to tail. I don't mean sacking out with a stick and a bag, I mean desensitizing her body to pressure. It'll fix her and it's free


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## soenjer55 (Dec 4, 2011)

Hm. (I skipped reading the above comments so forgive me if I'm repeating) First, physical issues should be eliminated. After that, though, if it turns out she's just being nasty and I were in this situation, every time she bucks, she has to GO. Kick her forward, and make her work. From my experience, mares like to have battles of wills A LOT, so I think this is basically her just trying to test you and show you that she's in charge.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

If she were my horse I would do as the Amazin Caucasin suggested and desensitize her a bit to pressure everywhere on her body. If that didn't work I'd wack her between the ears with a dressage whip every time she did it. I'd make sure it was easier for her to do as I ask rather than kick and act ****y. I had a gelding that would do the same thing except he would REALLY buck. Once the world started to come down on him when he bucked it quit being so fun and he soon gave it up.


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## soenjer55 (Dec 4, 2011)

Um. I'm not sure I agree with hitting her on the head... That sounds like that'll just make her have more problems. 
kevinshorses, can you tell me more about this? Did it affect your horse in any other way, like making them head shy?... I'm curious as to how you did it.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

It didn't make the horse head shy because that wasn't the only time I touched the horse between the ears. If I had only whacked onhim then he would have gotten head shy perhaps but since I spent some time rubbing between his ears and not hurting him he was fine. Besides it's much safer to ride a headshy horse than a bucker or even a horse that kicks like the OP's. 

As far as how I did it. I raised my hand holding the ens of my bridle reins in the air and brought it down rapidly towards the center of the horses head. I repeated until the horse quit bucking. I think it took two rides.


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## soenjer55 (Dec 4, 2011)

Interesting. Thank you


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

Wow that turned out more peaceful than I expected. Soenjer55, I admire your open-mindedness. And respect to Kevin for honesty that might keep somebody from getting hurt


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## Daphne (Dec 23, 2011)

*reply*

Waresbear - I apologize if this comes off rudely, but not every horse needs a chiropractor. She isn't sore ANYWHERE. I've already made sure of this, and also changed saddles due to proper imfitting, the saddle fits perfectly.. and it isnt the bridle OR the bit. Both myself(working with horses 11 years) and the lady i'm living with that helps me with my horse (working with horses 40 years) BOTH asked another trainer thats in the quarter horzse industry who trains top quarter horses for a living, and is well known, asked for advice, the bit's perfect for her, as well as the saddle. and her teeth are fine. i JUST had them floated 4 months ago. and it ISNT her feet, the problem arised at first breaking her, because she badly needed to be shod, and she had JUST foundered and was sore, something i had not realized. Now that there isn't any injuries or pain, and their both ruled out, it is behavioral issues. I've even had someone watch me ride. There isn't a thing im doing wrong under saddle. I did find a solution that helps a fair amount like i had mentioned above, praising for small rewards AFTER throwing a tantrum and doing as shes asked.. but thats only going to get me so far.
AmazinCaucasion- Thanks ! This definetly will fix the kicking out problem, as i have found she still doesnt really like leg pressure. how may i ask do i go about desensitizing her from pressure?
Soenjer55- not sure if this applies to me or the one that made this article, but thats what ive been doing, its just getting tiring because on her good days, this does work, but, on her bad.. it doesn't
Another problem that doesn't exactly help matters any, is I have to be EXTREMELY patient and careful to where im looking as she's almost blind in one eye. On bad days, i can only lunge her on one side, thankfully, because she trusts me, she allows me to lunge her on her bad side, judging by the pressure on the lungeline she's learned to stay a good distance away, i am capable of getting her walk, trot, and canter on her blind side, she wont do it for anyone else. but ive learned not to fight with her on this side, because she clearly just cannot see, and not knowing any better, not paying attention she WILL run into me, not purposely obviously.
When i said she "'snaps' her neck around and locks it" I didn't mean her neck litrally snaps, you'd have to actually see it in person to understand what i mean. But, ill do my best to describe it. She whips her head around in the direction she wants to go, and pulling back on both reins is useless as she seems to have developed a way of locking her neck and jaw. i swear the horse is double jointed. she can even twist her spine at the buck, she bucks like a bronc. lol and then she bolts across the ring. it takes me LITRALLY getting out of the saddle and putting all my body weight on the side of the saddle i want her to go, and placing my hand on the rein nearly to her bit, to get her going back in the direction i wish for her to go. i correct the behavior immediately, but it never seems to fail. every time we go in that direction no matter how many times ive worked with her, or how long ive worked with her, she STILL does it. Any sugguestions? Behind the rebellious streak she has, shes a really down to earth willing mare that loves to please. And it isnt ground work either. shes amazing at groundwork. she even placed in a couple shows doing showmanship and halter.


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## Daphne (Dec 23, 2011)

i didnt read the other posts till now.  thanks ! that fixes the bucking problem as well. and yes, i do agree that will help big time, i just hadn't thought of it. I've learned that when she throws temper tantrums its better to be extremely aggressive until she gets the point across that you aren't [email protected]**ing around and that she has to listen, and when she does she wont be punished. Any advice on the taking off, whipping her neck around? Im starting to get very VERY tired of riding like a beginner with her when she does things like this..


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

even if you cant find soreness, i would seriously look into chiropractor. i was having similar issues with my mare last year and the chiro helped her so much [and it was only $93 from a professional chiro and vet] just the kicking out so often is enough to throw her out of whack. 

training wise, i would really push her forward when she kicks out. in the first video you pushed her forward, but she was never really moving freely forward. give her her head and really make her run. then go back to work like nothing happened.


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

Daphne said:


> Waresbear - I apologize if this comes off rudely, but not every horse needs a chiropractor. She isn't sore ANYWHERE.
> 
> Agree! That's my belief too. Out of all the dozens of horses I've rode that bucked and kicked out, 100% of them were easily fixed in 1 or 2 sessions of good training. Not saying that's always the case with everybody, but it has been with me.
> 
> ...


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Hiya, not going to read all the posts so I apologise if I repeat anything.

1st Video- I know its difficult, but when she kicks out, you pull back on her mouth- hard. It is hard, and its easy for me to say it BUT MOVE HER FORWARDS. She is a baby, I understand that, but in both video's she's working more with her front than her hind.

2nd Video: You said she's got mild navicular? All I'm gonna say is I hope you're not planning on jumping her. It may be my imagination, but she looks slightly short on the front. You need to get her working from behind. I watched the video with the sound off, so I don't know what your trainer is saying. GP dressage rider or not, she's not a vet- I would serisouly get her back checked out, thats not naughtiness in my eyes, thats OW MUM, THIS HURTS. Get it checked, and then see if there is a difference. And the saddle checked too. Heck, mine competed GP and bred her own horses, but she'll give my saddle a look but she would never say this fits 100%- thats why we pay saddlers. Also- not criting riding here, I promise ;D But try and keep your inside leg on her more and hands stiller, inside hand drives her forward with impulsion but yours fishes whilst your outside leg is relatively still.

All in all she's a nice mare, but if she has navicular, like my dad's horse, if its on the front you REALLY have to ride them properly from behind otherwise they'll get foot sore. Not so much lame, but that little limp.

GL.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Bandera said:


> *I know she is getting bored*
> 
> *I cant trail ride her because she spooks and takes off* and my mom wont let me jump her until i can do my 1st level test with her.* For a normal horse the stuff i do with her should not be boring, we only circle a lot when she is being bad *other that that we do some* upper level dressage movements* with her so she doesnt become bored. I *want her to have fun* and *i want to have fun* but i want to get somewhere with this horse as she has a lot of potential.


Okay.. disregarding pain and ill fitting tack. A horse needs to have their mind engaged and in the video all I saw was going around and around and around the ring. I think she and you BOTH would be happier if you could do circles (nice ones not the naughty horse circles,) serpentines, figure eights, weaving, put some poles down and trot over them, remembering to sneak in those timed half halts so she knows something is going to change. 
But make it more fun to ride. Upper level dressage movements are hard and require a lot of focus and if she's sore (which she may be as Duffy touched on) it will do more harm than good. 

When I ride my horse, gather we don't canter under saddle as I haven't learned how yet, we start off warming up on the rail.. twice each way (it changes every ride) on a nice loose rein, then we move to figure eights and I start asking him to march and start gathering up my rein. Then we walk a few circles in the corners and in the middle of the arena. Then I pick up the trot on the rail first (he has trouble staying on the rail) then we move into figure eights, then we work on serpentines, then we go back to on the rail, then we go over a series of poles I've set up in the arena. Then he gets a quick walk break on a looser rein (working on the free walk haha) and then I pick up a sitting trot and we work on leg yields on and off the rail. Etc. etc. etc. He never gives me trouble, he's keen to follow orders, and he's never refused to do something. It's always "would you like some cream with your coffee?" instead of throwing a cup of black coffee at me.

I think mixing it up would help. Or just doing a short ride with a few circles and figure eights then hopping off and doing a bit of groundwork with her before letting her eat grass or giving her a handwalk through a trail.

It'd help 




waresbear said:


> Chiropractor is not expensive & solves a myriad of problems & rules out others.


A visit from the chiropractor every so often is SO nice for your horse. Even once a year beats no chiro visits at all. Some do muscle work as well, which is so beneficial to the health and performance of a horse.



DuffyDuck said:


> 1st Video- I know its difficult, but when she kicks out, you pull back on her mouth- hard. It is hard, and its easy for me to say it *BUT MOVE HER FORWARDS*. She is a baby, I understand that, but in both video's she's working more with her front than her hind.
> 
> 2nd Video: You said she's got mild navicular? All I'm gonna say is I hope you're not planning on jumping her. It may be my imagination, but she looks slightly short on the front. You need to get her working from behind. I watched the video with the sound off, so I don't know what your trainer is saying. GP dressage rider or not, she's not a vet- I would serisouly get her back checked out, thats not naughtiness in my eyes, thats OW MUM, THIS HURTS. Get it checked, and then see if there is a difference. And the saddle checked too. Heck, mine competed GP and bred her own horses, but she'll give my saddle a look but she would never say this fits 100%- thats why we pay saddlers. Also- not criting riding here, I promise ;D But try and keep your inside leg on her more and hands stiller, inside hand drives her forward with impulsion but yours fishes whilst your outside leg is relatively still.
> 
> ...


As usual I agree whole heartedly with Duffy, especially about keeping her forwards. it's so easy to pull back and confuse her. And I noticed your legs at the canter (not hands since I don't have experience with that) weren't driving her forward as I saw during your trot. Pushing her forward will definitely make it less easy to kick back. 

Good luck, the more engaged her mind and forward her body, the better ride for you both and you will be able to turn that potential into something more.

Have fun with her


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## MySissyGirl (Dec 12, 2011)

Daphne said:


> Too expensive for me.  What are you thinking it might be ? i can have a few horse people look at her that've been training horses for years.


I would have your friends check out her sacrum and her pelvis, since her back seems fine. Couldn't hurt.


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## Horsecrazy4ever (Nov 29, 2011)

You could try Parelli... Parelli Horse Training | Natural Horse Training | Parelli 

Super cool training! Just a suggestion =)


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## MySissyGirl (Dec 12, 2011)

I'm sorry Daphne....that was for Bandera.


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## Loyalty09 (Apr 23, 2011)

Just another thought....

The amount of time you canter seems a bit much to me considering her problems. It's like you are cantering her to bring out the problem. I would do a few sessions of lunging her to get her warmed up. Get on, canter ~3 steps, get off. That's it. That is the ride. 

Rides where you want to work I would focus only on walk, trot. Getting her forward and relaxed, but for cantering I would leave it at the above for a good week then start lengthening the time. If she bucks within the 3 steps bring her to a trot, back to canter, and 3 more steps. If she behaves dismount.

I know there is a time and place to be aggressive with a horse, but as I have been training my 16.3, moody, 4 year old I have learned more and more that there are better ways. 

I personally would never smack a horse on the head for bucking and I frequently ride a 17 hand gelding who was rejected by every trainer around here and told to be put down. Yes, horses can be aggressive animals, but apart from stallions they rarely ever touch one another.


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## Beling (Nov 3, 2009)

Loyalty09 said:


> ...The amount of time you canter seems a bit much to me considering her problems. It's like you are cantering her to bring out the problem. I would do a few sessions of lunging her to get her warmed up. Get on, canter ~3 steps, get off. That's it. That is the ride.
> ...


I totally agree.

My horse had similar problems, and there are still issues at canter--tail swishing (like I could care about that! but the judges do--) and everything keeps improving. My way was to "get the canter" for a few strides, and quit. Sometimes it was best to get it from a hard trot, sometimes it came best after a lot of walk-trot transitions, which got her going well on her hindquarters. (She's not near a beautiful mover like your horse, so we have to work harder at it!)

An interesting note--this is NOT ADVICE just something to think about: my neighbor old-time rancher, not young, was recently given my horse's mother (registered TB) because-- she kept bucking her owner/breeder off! (Run in the family?) My neighbor said, she did it at odd times, no particular reason, so his cure was: "Spurs." He put on some cowboy spurs, got on, turned the mare's head in to his foot, and "gave her something to buck about." And every time she bucked, he spurred her. And after that unpleasant session, she _never bucked again._ His previous owner actually didn't recognize her on a trail ride. And she's turned out to be a really calm, sweet mare, just like mine.


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## ndistler (Nov 9, 2012)

I would have a horse chiropractor come out and see because its almost like she is having problems with her right hind, which is why she tries to cross canter. If that doesn't work try getting a horse psychic in and they pretty well can tell you what the horse is thinking or why the horse does something. But I would also consider what the previous people have said, and try things. hope everything works out for you!


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

this thread is 2 years old maam


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I agree with all that Alaskapacker says. She looks bored silly and needs some real interest in her life.

Arena work gets boring for them so no wonder she is objecting.


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