# HELP horse won't move forward user saddle



## reaganvictoria1 (Feb 14, 2016)

I recently bought a coming 4 year old paso fino gelding. He is a great sweet horse, not aggressive. I can lunge him and he has loads of energy. Have been free jumping him and see a bright future in that area. Respects me on the ground, have done extensive ground work. Saddles fine lunges with the saddle great. stands for me to get on perfectly. So heres the problem. When I do get on him he "forgets what he knows". He won't go forward at all he just stands there, i nag him and try to be more stubborn than him but I've come to the conclusion its useless. I had my friend lunge him with me on him and he does great with that so i did that for 2 weeks straight. We would ask him to go with leg cues and clucks and reward him then stop and ask him forward, reward, repeat. His saddle fits, I switched bits a few times to this one that works for him. It's not his tack. I had a chiropractor come out and adjust him. He's not sore. And i tried carrying a whip while riding, useless, and i don't like using it. I don't know what else to do, please help


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

reaganvictoria1 said:


> I recently bought a coming 4 year old paso fino gelding. He is a great sweet horse, not aggressive. I can lunge him and he has loads of energy. Have been free jumping him and see a bright future in that area. Respects me on the ground, have done extensive ground work. Saddles fine lunges with the saddle great. stands for me to get on perfectly. So heres the problem. When I do get on him he "forgets what he knows". He won't go forward at all he just stands there, i nag him and try to be more stubborn than him but I've come to the conclusion its useless. I had my friend lunge him with me on him and he does great with that so i did that for 2 weeks straight. We would ask him to go with leg cues and clucks and reward him then stop and ask him forward, reward, repeat. His saddle fits, I switched bits a few times to this one that works for him. It's not his tack. I had a chiropractor come out and adjust him. He's not sore. And i tried carrying a whip while riding, useless, and i don't like using it. I don't know what else to do, please help


Try ground driving. Get him used to not "following a leader".


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## reaganvictoria1 (Feb 14, 2016)

didn't even think of that thanks I will tomorrow morning!


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Get someone to stand across the arena with a handful of grain in a metal bucket. Once he figures out what's in it, he'll readily head over there. When you think he's going to take the first step give a light squeeze with both calfs and immediately relax your leg. You've chosen the wrong breed for jumping. All horses free jump not all are designed for it when carrying a rider.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi & welcome, 



reaganvictoria1 said:


> When I do get on him he "forgets what he knows". He won't go forward at all he just stands there, i nag him and try to be more stubborn than him but I've come to the conclusion its useless.


Firstly, he doesn't 'forget what he knows'. Sounds like he might just not know what he's supposed to do in the first place. He's only rising 4yo(so I wouldn't be doing any jumping yet, even significant 'free jumping'), so he's not going to be very solid at anything - Think of him as a kindergarten or early primary level child. You don't say what training he's had & perhaps he wasn't 'started' very well either. 

Secondly if your method is to nag & then give up because it doesn't work, and your mindset is that he's 'stubborn' & you need to be more so, then I think this is a big part of your problem. Even if he did 'know better', horses learn to do what works & quit doing what doesn't. So every time you 'nag' a horse rather than effectively making stuff happen, you're TEACHING him to be 'stubborn' - that is, be persistent in the behaviour that works(ignoring/resisting you), because that's what works to get you to stop hassling. 



> I had my friend lunge him with me on him and he does great with that so i did that for 2 weeks straight. We would ask him to go with leg cues and clucks and reward him ... And i tried carrying a whip while riding, useless, and i don't like using it. I don't know what else to do, please help


So you don't say but I'm guessing he soon became forward & easy about it so long as your friend was there as 'backup', but quit 'listening' to you when you're alone? I think this is because your friend was able to teach him effectively(& maybe he was already good at lunging), but because you had started teaching him to 'outpersist' you, he's learned that's the behaviour that works for him with you. 

And yes, just carrying a whip, especially if you're afraid to use it, is absolutely useless. Whether it's a whip, the loose end of the reins, your hand giving him a smack... you need it to be strong/effective enough to motivate him to move his feet! I personally tend to use reins, smacking across the shoulder as a strong 'you'd better' back up if the horse isn't listening to legs/seat. 

**So saying, I'm not personally at all big on punishment like that, don't feel it's often needed or helpful and I think in most cases, including this one, the focus should be far more on *TEACHING* 'right' behaviour rather than punishing 'wrong'. Unfortunately, as he has already been taught that resisting you & ignoring your signals is right, I think a few strongish, strategically timed punishments may now also be necessary to 'unlearn' that.

Finally, as it sounds like you have a little trained, green horse and that you aren't an experienced trainer, I strongly suggest you find a good trainer or experienced horse person(maybe that friend) to help teach him & you, rather than just trying to go it alone. You've seen here how easy it is to inadvertently teach horses the opposite of what you want, when you're not sure of what you need to do, and there are many behaviours(such as won't go forward) that can quickly become dangerous.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

Punishment does not work very well for teaching. It is mostly useful when a horse is spoiled. A spoiled horse is one that has knows how to do something and then later learns that he does not have to do it. If a horse refuses to do something that he has been okay with before, an appropriate punishment will MAKE him do what he already know how to do.

This horse has been taught that if he stands there, all of the pressure will be taken off of him. I have seen this several time when a horse has been led or longed with a rider but never taught to go forward under saddle without that additional help.

Ground driving is usually the solution. Sometimes it take more to get one going. I have also put a horse in a big pen loose. Then I take a five foot stock whip and drive it around. When you herd a horse around, you are teaching it that it must go forward from a person putting pressure on its hind end.

Just out of curiosity: Was this horse raised in a herd of horses that bossed it around? I have found this kind of poor trainability to be much more common in horses raised alone after weaning. They have a lot more trouble giving the right response to 'pressure' put on them than horse that have been bitten, kicked and chased around during those two years between weaning and riding. I hate training stall raised horses unless someone or something has taught them to move from pressure. It is not uncommon for them to 'lean' into pressure. A herd of horses does this really well without any time spent by a trainer and without having to put a LOT of pressure on them.


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## beverleyy (Oct 26, 2011)

So what was he doing before you bought him? 
What was his workload like (lunging, riding, what?).
How long have you owned him? 
I assume you rode him when you tried him out? 
What does he do when your trainer hops on?
What was your reasoning for changing his bit "a few times"/why does the new one "work for him" vs. previous bits?
What happens if you drop the reins (on the buckle/no contact) and ask him to move forward? Are you possibly pulling back when you ask him to move out, hence why you possibly associated his lack of movement to his bit?
From what I am gathering you say you changed the bit a few times and sounds like you've associated that with his lack of movement (correct me if I am wrong). The bit should never, ever, prevent a horse from moving forward into the walk - perhaps your OP wasn't clear and I've misunderstood why you changed the bit.

I'm going to take a wild guess here, and please feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but he's 4. 4 is a baby. Not sure your level of experience, but IMHO he sounds pretty inexperienced - ie: doesn't know what's being asked of him. Curious how you answer the above questions, that will give further insight. Honestly though, this is an online forum - no body here can see your horse or your riding, your trainer really should be the one helping you with this as they are able to see first hand what is happening, and are much more aware of your riding / your horse's training than we will be.


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

To get my guy to move under saddle, I used a crop and tapped the top of his rump while I gave him a tap with my legs. He took a step and I patted him. Repeat and reward, slowly asking for more movement. 
For him to figure out how to trot under saddle, I needed aomeone to lunge him while I was mounted. He figured it out quick. 
I am hoping I can get him to canter on my own. 

But you say you had someone lunge him while you were on and gave cues. He may need more time to figure it out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## reaganvictoria1 (Feb 14, 2016)

lllllll


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## reaganvictoria1 (Feb 14, 2016)

sorry i should have made my post more clear. I am his trainer. I have started countless horses from the ground up and know when to be aggressive and when to be soft. I don't pull on his mouth. the owners before me used a very harsh paso bit so i changed him to a simple snaffle. I rode him 3 times in an indoor arena before i bought him and he did fine for a 4 year old. He had get up an go under saddle. walk/trot/canter etc. i can lunge him, do basic groundwork, and get a saddle on his back no problem. i got him home and i don't have an indoor and rode him 3 times with no serious issues. I had surgery and had 3 weeks off. went to work with him and now i can't get him moving under saddle. He does everything i ask. the last 2 weeks Ive been on him and won't give up until he is moving, kicking/using a whip/slapping his butt with my hand. nothing gets him going. my friend lunged him while i was on him he did good cause there was someone on the ground pushing him. i then asked her to just stand in the middle (no lunge line) so he could have a target to go around. he did fine. removed her from the pen and he did great. lasted for 4 days. then he won't move under saddle again. I ground drive him 2 days in a row picked it up great. did everything i asked (turning/walking/trotting/stopping) got on his back today and nothing.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

It may be time to stop asking & start demanding.


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

reaganvictoria1 said:


> sorry i should have made my post more clear. I am his trainer. I have started countless horses from the ground up and know when to be aggressive and when to be soft. ...


While I appreciate your clarification concerning the experience you have, There is also a factor of wisdom that comes with years upon years, and decades upon decades of experience.

Wisdom is valuable. The amount of time a teenager has put into riding and training horses is but a drop in the bucket compared to the wisdom put into the replies you have received.

I'll stand with those whose advice is that one cannot pound learning into a horse, it must be taught.

Is it possible for you to ask a mentor, or trainer you have worked with before for their opinions as well?


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

What have you been doing the instant he DOES move forward? And again, remember every single time you kick, prod, smack, whatever, and you don't get what you're after, you are reinforcing, strengthening his teaching that 'ignoring' you is the right answer & desensitising him to the nagging.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

You don't say how long he was in ridden work before you bought him but since he responded OK when you rode him on the trial he can't have forgotten everything this quickly.
My guess is that this is either a case of
'Why is my horse standing still?'
Answer
'Because he can'
He might have been ridden by someone that had a far more forceful approach and without that he can't be bothered to move, he could be the sort of horse that's been bullied instead of properly trained to get to where he was when you tried him, horses like that are never willing rides


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