# Horse bucking, could it be anxiety?



## phoenix (Jun 7, 2010)

Hi, My horse Phoenix has always bucked, it's his go to move. Over the last year almost i've had him at a barn right next to a trail system and have been taking him out a lot to put miles and experience on him. He's gotten a lot better about being on trail and i've managed to work most of the kinks out of him. 

Luckily the few people i ride with on a regular basis know all about Phoenix from what i've told them. He's a good boy who sometimes loses his head. This often results in a good buck or two. I had planned to send him to a local trainer who specializes in training for trail but due to an unfortunate saddle need my trainer cash fund disappeared.

So his jigging= mostly stopped. His reluctance to lead= stopped. Finding a way for my friends to canter on trail that doesn't involve me getting killed= solved! Now my friends canter in front and i keep Phoenix at the trot while keeping up with the slower horse in front. Problem solved. Except for the rare occasion that my friends horse picks up canter when he's more than 2 horse lengths away from Phoenix, then we're dealing with a a meltdown situation. 

It happened tonight when we were out. We'd had a little canter/trot and i even managed to get a few good strides of canter out of Phoenix, without cross cantering or bucking (i was giving him a huge pat on the neck for this, it almost never happens). My friends horse who was out in front about 3 horse lengths away picked up canter for some unknown reason and my friend, without thinking, just went with it... cue Phoenix and his little meltdown. Luckily he only got in one small buck and some squealing while i yelled at my friend to stop (also lucky that my friend knows when i yell stop, she has to stop, it doesn't matter what's happening she has to stop). After friends horse stopped moving and turned Phoenix was fine, jigged little but then was completely calm.

I'm not sure how to deal with this particular behaviour. I can only control so much on trail, i can only ask so much of the people i ride with. They know he can be quite an idiot and when i know that a big group wants to go out running i don't take him. But i can't forsee horses in front suddenly breaking into canter, even a little one like my friends horse. I don't know how to train this behaviour out of him; i've managed to stop him bucking when he canters for the most part (not in groups when he gets over excited); but the sneak bucks he sometimes throws in are something completely different. Could this be caused by anxiety at a herd member leaving him? he was with another horse he knows well so he wasn't left alone or anything.

I feel like sometimes my taking him out ruins the ride for everyone else, now i try to avoid the bigger groups because i don't want to ruin everyone elses day as my horse explodes all over the trail.


----------



## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

The horse that my husband rides used to be like that. She still can buck as she goes into a canter. Several things have helped.

First, she has been ridden so much that she is calmer.

Second, we figured out that she had a saddle fit/ pad problem. Pain problems being solved helped.

Another thing is that you can't let her out into a canter on a loose rein. You have to gather her reins in first.

Also if you canter her on the way out she is better than if you are on the way home. She can have a melt down if people canter by her when she is on the way home and almost there. 

If we are going slow, she never gives him any trouble. Calm, cool, collected and go anywhere.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

What did you do to make it ok ? I mean, how did you train out most of the bucks?

I , too, have this issue with Zulu. If he is not the lead horse, and the group takes off at a canter, he wants to plow through everyone in front, and if you hold him back, he bucks! His buck is not a tiny little hop, either. It feels like an elevator is going up behind you . (he is 17hh and 1400lbs). So, I tend to ask my friends to only trot when they lead, or I lead, but this is just skirting the issue, not dealing with it. 

I will be interested in hearing other's advice. Zulu does not buck otherwise and rarely jigs. But, back to your situation . . . .


----------



## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I rode her hundreds and hundreds of miles over several years. I rode her off by herself a lot of times. I really think that there are people who could help you more than me because it took a long time. I think that keeping her in front is safer than letting her follow. Also, ask people to let you know when they are going to canter so that you can prepare by gathering in your reins and holding on like crazy.

Some of it is just the horse because "The Psycho Princess" that I ride now is much more insane and spooky, yet she transitions fine into a canter.


----------



## calicokatt (Mar 5, 2012)

My horse doesn't buck, but she DOES get extremely jiggy if a horse canters off in front of her. My solution has been to ride in the lead MOST of the time, but when I'm with a group of people who are 'safe' (know me and my horse, and know I can handle it and won't freak out if she has a meltdown) I ride in the rear. If they canter off and she gets jiggy, we turn our backs to the leaving horse and stand. When she's calm, we try again, if she's still jiggy, we turn and stand. When she's finally calm facing forward again, we pick up the canter (easy canter) and catch up. This has worked REALLY REALLY well. She used to be really terrible, piaffes, flying changes with every stride, cantering in place if I held her in, etc. (but no buck, she's not a bucker). I wonder if this method would help you as well? We started off doing it in straight areas, where she could always see the other horse, and gradually moved up to doing it in areas where she would lose sight if she didn't remain calm from the start...


----------



## phoenix (Jun 7, 2010)

Celeste said:


> The horse that my husband rides used to be like that. She still can buck as she goes into a canter. Several things have helped.
> 
> First, she has been ridden so much that she is calmer.
> 
> ...


That sounds a lot like my boy, except for the go anywhere calm and collected bit, he will do if it's with a smaller group of horses who are calm however if we ride with my other friend and her nutty tb he falls back into old habits of jigging and rushing. I actually had to ask her to take her barn buddy and separate from my horse and two others because her horse was making everyone else crazy.

I also don't canter on a lose rein, i do walk and most of the trot on a looser rein but with canter i don't pull but i have a firm contact so i can stop him with a tweak of either rein. Not really to stop him running away, because he is mostly lazy enough not to do that but so he can't get his head down if he does decide to throw in a buck.

We were past the half way home point tonight which is why i think my friends horse picked up canter. She's done it a few times on rides mostly without thinking but like i said she stops as soon as i yell for her to. 

He did/does have a pain issue with his wonky hip but does see the chiropractor and i did just get a lovely new saddle that fits him like a dream so i'm hoping that helps him too.



tinyliny said:


> What did you do to make it ok ? I mean, how did you train out most of the bucks?
> 
> I , too, have this issue with Zulu. If he is not the lead horse, and the group takes off at a canter, he wants to plow through everyone in front, and if you hold him back, he bucks! His buck is not a tiny little hop, either. It feels like an elevator is going up behind you . (he is 17hh and 1400lbs). So, I tend to ask my friends to only trot when they lead, or I lead, but this is just skirting the issue, not dealing with it.
> 
> I will be interested in hearing other's advice. Zulu does not buck otherwise and rarely jigs. But, back to your situation . . . .


With the canter bucking i did a lot of cantering him on a lunge line and just letting him see that by bucking he wasn't going to get to stop. His previous owners (and me in the beginning) would stop him if he started to buck so i think he learned that all he had to do to stop work was throw in a nice big buck and i'd be left shaking like a leaf and we'd stop. I'm quite fortunate than i'm pretty hard to unseat and tend to cling but there have been a few times i've ended up out of the saddle.

Wit riding and the bucking i've been keeping my canter sessions short with him (and been doing this for a few years now to be honest, i figure baby steps are better than no steps). In the arena i ask for canter, let him go for a few strides and then back to trot, then i ask again, go maybe half or 3/4 of the arena and then slow it down. Mostly i did this because he had the horrible cross canter and now only does it very rarely, so i was trying to train that out too. When i first did this he could barely make it 2 or 3 strides without throwing in a buck so we've made progress. Tonight on trail was the first time i've asked him to canter outside of an arena in about 4 years. We did a long straight towards my two friends who had ridden ahead and were waiting for me. I wanted him to go alone so everyone elses excitement didn't bleed over and so that he could see his buddies and that they weren't trying to leave. 

I know what you mean by not a tiny little hop, Phoenix does the rodeo buck, as you can see from my avatar


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I only have any bucking when he is behind a cantering horse. never in arena or on lungeline, though I havne't really lunged him yet, only round penned.


----------



## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

If he is bucking because he figures it will get him out of work, and if you are pretty good at hanging on, maybe rather than slow him down when he bucks, you should push him forward. Bucking is a lot more trouble than cantering. 

Abby (the horse I talked about earlier) just gets too excited. She would prefer to bolt off like a maniac and leave all the others in the dust when they canter. She can keep on like a maniac for a long time.


----------



## phoenix (Jun 7, 2010)

calicokatt said:


> My horse doesn't buck, but she DOES get extremely jiggy if a horse canters off in front of her. My solution has been to ride in the lead MOST of the time, but when I'm with a group of people who are 'safe' (know me and my horse, and know I can handle it and won't freak out if she has a meltdown) I ride in the rear. If they canter off and she gets jiggy, we turn our backs to the leaving horse and stand. When she's calm, we try again, if she's still jiggy, we turn and stand. When she's finally calm facing forward again, we pick up the canter (easy canter) and catch up. This has worked REALLY REALLY well. She used to be really terrible, piaffes, flying changes with every stride, cantering in place if I held her in, etc. (but no buck, she's not a bucker). I wonder if this method would help you as well? We started off doing it in straight areas, where she could always see the other horse, and gradually moved up to doing it in areas where she would lose sight if she didn't remain calm from the start...


This does in theory sound like a good idea but if i tried to hold phoenix i would probably end up eating dirt or hanging from a tree of trail. Unfortunately i've ridden with some folks who don't 'get' that my horse is still a work in progress and assume he's just going to behave like their dead broke trail horse, they canter off and leave him... he bucks and they get further away.. his bucks get progressively bigger as his panic rises and a few times i've ended up on his neck screaming for who ever it is to stop. If it were a case of jiggyness i would totally hold him or turn him, i held him at a buck once and learned from that misjudgment as he went straight up in the air on a hill side and i saw imminent death with us possibly falling backwards down the hill :/

I thought i had it figured with my 'blocker horse'. My friends horses canter can be slowed right down and although he doesn't like to be left he deals with it (by whinnying, it's so pathetic), he acts as a trail blocker so phoenix can't see everyone else getting away and he remains pretty calm, but if the blocker leaves the whole thing falls apart.


----------



## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> I only have any bucking when he is behind a cantering horse. never in arena or on lungeline, though I havne't really lunged him yet, only round penned.


A lot of people will tell you to spend a lot of time working on the longe line, but I have not found it to do any good at all in a horse that bucks due to wanting to be in front. 

The main thing is to hold on and don't get hurt. A nice helmet is a good plan as well.


----------



## calicokatt (Mar 5, 2012)

I know what you mean, my horse can't be 'held' either, without things getting worse, but I find if her back is facing the 'issue' I don't HAVE to hold her, she'll stand on a loose rein. It might be worth trying with your friend who has the horse who slow canters, so they don't really get very far away while you're trying it, and can hear you and come back if you shout to them.


----------



## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Pheonix, you need to only ride with people that will work with you until you get all this sorted out. Those folks are going to get you hurt.


----------



## phoenix (Jun 7, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> I only have any bucking when he is behind a cantering horse. never in arena or on lungeline, though I havne't really lunged him yet, only round penned.


I now only have bucking when the cantering horse is getting away, if he's keeping up he's happy. Horses are odd aren't they. I also taught Phoenix to ground drive and i make him canter in the arena hooked up to the lines, he knows not to buck with lines near his legs or he'd get all tangled up, he does pretty well. I'd love to get him a little buggy and drive him.

If i round pen or free lunge Phoenix i can almost guarantee a few bucks to start with, mostly him being a git about not wanting to put in effort or him getting that spring out of his step. Once he realizes that no he can't stop and yes he has to keep going he settles down. there have been a few occasions when this realization came with big bucks, squeals and running around like a tool for 20 minutes but that happens mostly when its cold.

Hmm, so when you're out on trail and the lead horse canters your horse bucks? does he stop to buck or buck while moving? Does he do it more than once or does he settle down once he's going?



Celeste said:


> If he is bucking because he figures it will get him out of work, and if you are pretty good at hanging on, maybe rather than slow him down when he bucks, you should push him forward. Bucking is a lot more trouble than cantering.
> 
> Abby (the horse I talked about earlier) just gets too excited. She would prefer to bolt off like a maniac and leave all the others in the dust when they canter. She can keep on like a maniac for a long time.


He used to pull that trick but i think i've got that out of him for the most part now. He knows now that if he bucks while either being lunged or ridden that i'll either urge him on or ride it out. Although i have to say he never offers a buck when i ride him in the arena, not anymore and not for a long while. Now it's just out on trail. I haven't actually asked him to canter with the group yet, i'm working up to that, he trots while everyone canters and he's happy with this. His stride is long and he doesn't get tired out. 

I might try a little experiment (and hope i don't fall off) next time i ride with my friend. I'll ask her to canter off with her horse maybe 2 lengths away. If he bucks i'll try to ask him to move forward and see what reaction i get. I'll of course let my friend know what i'm doing so she can stop if i tell her to. If it is anxiety about being left does anyone think doing some exercises at the walk and trot would help, maybe have the lead horse walk faster away, trot away and then build it up to cantering away?

When the trainer came out he did exercises like that with us and used his horse to walk/trot/canter away and phoenix was fine. Maybe because he didn't know the horse. He did however react badly when the trainer and another horse in front cantered off without warning, luckily he dipped his head and gave me enough time to turn him and stop the buck.


----------



## phoenix (Jun 7, 2010)

calicokatt said:


> I know what you mean, my horse can't be 'held' either, without things getting worse, but I find if her back is facing the 'issue' I don't HAVE to hold her, she'll stand on a loose rein. It might be worth trying with your friend who has the horse who slow canters, so they don't really get very far away while you're trying it, and can hear you and come back if you shout to them.


Good idea. i'll try it out when i'm next out with her.



Celeste said:


> Pheonix, you need to only ride with people that will work with you until you get all this sorted out. Those folks are going to get you hurt.


Oh i know, i tend to skip the bigger barn rides and if i know someone is going who isn't going to listen to me i skip. I've also been known to give people i'm riding with a little Phoenix 101 before we head out, mainly i tell everyone if i yell STOP everyone needs to do it. I also make sure i ask people if they plan on cantering and either ask then to give me fair warning so i can get behind the slower horse or i just don't go. There's no sense in me risking my safety or that of the other riders.

I do get laughed at by some of the barn members (the BO and her bf if i'm honest), i really don't think they believe me that he can be like this; he's so nice in the barn and in the pasture and n walk/trot trails hes an angel but occasionally hell loose his nut and he could really hurt me or someone else.


----------



## Ladytrails (Jul 28, 2010)

Phoenix, I'm not any help dealing with the bucking under saddle, but I have a caution for you if you decide to break Phoenix to a cart. A bucking horse between two cart shafts is a serious wreck that could kill both of you. He could break the shafts, impale himself, flip the cart with you in it, and/or fall backwards onto you...My imagination runs wild. This is a really bad scene and you shouldn't break him to drive until he is done with his bucking phase. If, for example, it turns out that weight on his back is causing the bucking, then driving might be okay!


----------



## phoenix (Jun 7, 2010)

I honestly wouldn't know the first thing about breaking him for a cart so it'll probably never happen. I haven't even tried him pulling anything. A trainer i worked for a few years back said the weight on his back was causing the bucking so that's why i taught him to ground drive too, he was a retired pasture puff for about 2 years because his bucking issues had gotten so bad. Looking at him now he's like a different horse. 

It's always in the back of my mind that if i can't get the issue resolved and he becomes a danger to me or other people he'll go back into retirement without a second thought. For now at least he's doing well on slow trails with not much excitement. If i have to ask my friends to take one or two trails a week where they don't canter i doubt they'll be too bothered. So for now at least i have other options than a cart.


----------



## calicokatt (Mar 5, 2012)

Out of curiosity, is he low man on the totem pole, or the big bad boss? My mare is the boss mare, and is at her worst if I let any of her 'herd' in front of her, but not nearly so bad if its horses she doesn't know in front of her (still bad, but not the same, and getting better all the time).


----------



## callidorre (Dec 7, 2011)

You said that you ride on trails that are connected to your barn. Have you done any riding where you have to trailer away? My horse is an awesome trail horse but he will get obnoxious (not a bucker though) if I take him on my barn trails, really only when it's just him and I. The thought of riding away from his home and back to it sticks in his head. He'll try a stupid fast walk on the way home and attempt to jig if I hold him back and try to slow it down. And he's more hyper and not as aware of me or his surroundings.

What ways have you attempted to canter on the trail? Have you tried being first? Cantering beside another horse so that he isn't "winning" or "getting left behind"? Cantering up a nice hill where he has to work a little (though I can see some bucking potential in that)? Have you considered ponying him off of another horse on some rides? With/without a rider. Are you holding him back when he is bucking? Have you tried to move him forward towards the other horses when he starts? Is it just when a horse gets a little further away in front of him? I also personally would stick with smaller groups of people that I trust and have calm, responsive horses that will stop when needed and won't aggravate his behavior. One other horse is great. Though I was going with about 4 to 6 people with my horse when I first starting trail riding him. But my trainer was with us. He would jig, back, pull on the reins, that sort of thing (he sat in a field for a few years before I got him and had an extended riding/working vacation).

_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

I just skimmed thru the posts. A lot comes to mind. It could very well be your horse is bucking because he's anxious or nervous. It sounds like he is herd bound and lacking respect for you. He doesn't look to you for guidance. 

A lot of this problem is yours to fix but part of it is with your friends. Do they let the horse break into a canter when the horse wants or are they asking for it? Either way, it's not respectful to the other riders if they don't say that they are going to take off. 

I've worked with several horses that get jiggy and/or buck on the trail. I'll suggest some things for you to do. Note that not all things will work for every horse. Also I don't know how comfortable you would be doing these. 

First, take him out on some solo rides. This will help him understand it's ok to be away from other horses. 

When he does buck, what do you do to correct him? Get him to stop bucking and let him catch up to the other horses? Or do you make him work a little and then go the pace you want? I'm going to guess the first. 

What I've done is put their butt to work doing circles and backing until they forget that the other horses are even there and pay attention to me. Now since you need the other riders stop for you, that seems like it might be out of your comfort zone to do. Only if I am having great difficulties keeping the horse in control, then I would want the other riders to stop, but that's just me. You could try having him face the other direction, away from your friends, until he stands calmly. Then turn and WALK to your friends. I try to never let a horse run to catch up to other riders. If I do, I make them go past before slowing down or slow down to a walk before i get close to them. Otherwise you are creating the habit of letting the horse run back to the "herd". Another thing you could try is turning away and instead of just standing and facing away, make him move away. If and when he stops being jiggy, then turn back towards your friends. If they get to be quite a distance from you, let your horse go thru different transitions on the way back. Walk, trot, walk, canter, walk and so on. Only let him go at the selected pace for about 5 strides then change. He will get what he wants, back to the other horses but will start listening to you better. 

Another thing I have done is ride away from the group on a side trail that rejoins the main trail. Or if possible, go of the trail just a little bit. Then get back on with the group. 

One thing I teach our horses is that I, or whomever is riding, is the one that chooses the speed. If they try to speed up on their own, they get shut down real quick. It shouldn't matter if a bunch of horses ran full speed past, unless I say for them to go faster, they should keep going the pace I chose. 

One last thing, I think you taking him out and doing a lot of transitions will help you and him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

The squeal denotes exhuberance. Had a mare that would squeal and buck after a swim. She wasn't trying to get me off, she just felt so good. I never got after her for it. On the other hand she'd let out a dirty buck if pushed too hard. I didn't get after her then either because it was my fault and it was her way of telling me. When on a ride with others it goes much better if the horses are allowed to find their own place in the line.


----------



## phoenix (Jun 7, 2010)

calicokatt said:


> Out of curiosity, is he low man on the totem pole, or the big bad boss? My mare is the boss mare, and is at her worst if I let any of her 'herd' in front of her, but not nearly so bad if its horses she doesn't know in front of her (still bad, but not the same, and getting better all the time).


He's not low in the herd, i'd say maybe 2 or 3 from the top in a herd of 15+ horses. When he's out with the boss horse he's very reluctant to pass him but if i put him at the front he's more than happy to lead a trail. Although he is quite a slow walker so lots of the barn people don't like him in the lead, they think he's too sedate.



callidorre said:


> You said that you ride on trails that are connected to your barn. Have you done any riding where you have to trailer away? My horse is an awesome trail horse but he will get obnoxious (not a bucker though) if I take him on my barn trails, really only when it's just him and I. The thought of riding away from his home and back to it sticks in his head. He'll try a stupid fast walk on the way home and attempt to jig if I hold him back and try to slow it down. And he's more hyper and not as aware of me or his surroundings.
> 
> What ways have you attempted to canter on the trail? Have you tried being first? Cantering beside another horse so that he isn't "winning" or "getting left behind"? Cantering up a nice hill where he has to work a little (though I can see some bucking potential in that)? Have you considered ponying him off of another horse on some rides? With/without a rider. Are you holding him back when he is bucking? Have you tried to move him forward towards the other horses when he starts? Is it just when a horse gets a little further away in front of him? I also personally would stick with smaller groups of people that I trust and have calm, responsive horses that will stop when needed and won't aggravate his behavior. One other horse is great. Though I was going with about 4 to 6 people with my horse when I first starting trail riding him. But my trainer was with us. He would jig, back, pull on the reins, that sort of thing (he sat in a field for a few years before I got him and had an extended riding/working vacation).


The trails are across the street from the barn, i haven't done any trails away from the barn as i don't have a trailer. The plan was for him to go to the trainers house and he was going to take him on trails for 2 weeks to see if he could work through the issues he has left and also get him used to trailering places and having to work when he gets there. If i can afford it i'll send him in the spring. Funnily enough i always put Phoenix in the lead on the way home to the barn, he's always super calm and he helps calm the other horses down, we have one that picks up speed and gets pushy on the way back but Phoenix has never done that. I've made it his job to get everyone home calmly and that's what he does.

Really the only time i've attempted to canter with it being my intention to do so was last night. I mostly just ask him for a nice strong trot when everyone else canters. It's for me too since his canter is so uncomfortable to sit and usually messes my back up. What i did last night was find a nice long stretch that was quiet, i sent the other 2 horses forward at a walk and slowed his walk right down. I asked them to stop and turn about 3/4 of the way up the straight. I turned him and trotted him back the start of the straight and turned him to face his buddies; he was reluctant to go away from them but did it anyway. He started at the trot and then picked up canter, luckily with all legs going the correct way. We did a nice slow controlled canter to his buddies and i slowed him down before we got to them. i wanted to try him out on his own so he didn't run into the horse in front and so he didn't get overly excited. He was fine cantering, i was quite surprised actually it was after the cantering when he bucked. We went around a corner and he has slowed right down to his pokey walk but my friends horse had picked up speed so he ended up a little away from us.

I haven't tired him up front but i might give that a go. If i made sure my friends didn't try to overtake i could try for a short canter with them behind and see how he reacted.

Cantering up a hill probably not a great idea. We had an incident a few month back going up a steep hill and he bucked in about 6 different places and reared on the hill, i'm still not sure what caused that episode, my guess is his saddle slipped. I how use a breast collar so it doesn't happen again. Also i now make him walk up hills instead of running up them. 

I haven't tried ponying him, i bet he'd be fine with it. Might be interesting to try.

When he bucks, my initial reaction used to be to stop him getting his head very far down so he couldn't get any great height with his back end, but since the rear i've been trying to get into habit of turning his head to the right, my thought is he can't buck very high with his neck flexed. He only got in one small buck last night and stopped as soon as i go hold of his head. I try really hard not to let him get up any momentum, if he gets in one or two bucks and i can get him stopped without coming off it's usually okay. My friend behind me last night said he barely got any height. Also he has a tell, right before he bucks he does this head twitch thing so i can mostly stop the buck before it really gets out of him. 

In the past year he's only really given me two or 3 attempts at bucking (aside from the hill incident) that involved other horses moving away. The first was in a huge group when he was just new to trail, we had planned to trot a section but the horse in front picked up canter instead so of course the 3 behind the lead also picked up canter; Phoenix was next with maybe 3 horses behind us. He squealed threw his head and popped off a rather impressive leap into the air. Everyone stopped and we resumed at a walk, that time i wasn't the one who stopped everyone, the riders behind me did. I have noticed that the only time he attempts a buck or gets one in is when he's either walking or stopped and another horse moves off quickly, if he's already at a trot and the horse in front picks up canter he just goes with it and is fine. 

wow, that reply was longer than i thought it would be.



usandpets said:


> I just skimmed thru the posts. A lot comes to mind. It could very well be your horse is bucking because he's anxious or nervous. It sounds like he is herd bound and lacking respect for you. He doesn't look to you for guidance.
> 
> A lot of this problem is yours to fix but part of it is with your friends. Do they let the horse break into a canter when the horse wants or are they asking for it? Either way, it's not respectful to the other riders if they don't say that they are going to take off.
> 
> ...


Yes, it does seem that he's gotten a little herd bound, he does get a bit anxious if i try to take him out alone. I've only done it once and we only got about 200 yards onto the trail before he started to try to whisk me back home. I'll try to take him out again, maybe work him in the arena first to get him a bit worn out and then take him out, gradually build up the distance we go.

Part of the problem is my friend, bless her she does seem to forget who she's riding with sometimes. Last night i think she got a bit of a fright when he acted up so maybe that'll make her try a bit harder. She asked her horse to trot which would have been just fine but he picked up canter instead since she doesn't really have a distinct cue for trot and canter, it's mostly just kick and kick.

To get him to stop i have been trying to turn his head, he goes to pull his head down gets a jab in the mouth from his bit and stops himself. It happens to infrequently, much less than it used to so the people i'm with stop and we stand while i do some flexing exercises with him to get his mind back in the game, it usually involves moving his feet either in a circle or zigzagging the trail. Then we resume the ride, i don't let him catch up. he's not allowed to do that jigging thing, i hate that, it throws my back out she he is not allowed to do it. If he jigs i push him into trot, so he's learned that when he jigs he has to work. He stopped doing it pretty quickly. He doesn't mind getting left behind at the walk and has been doing great with that side of it. My friends horse speeds right up on the way home and she ends up usually about 50ft away from us and he's calm as can be, it's just if the front horse moves off at the canter. Maybe his horsey herd instinct for survival kicks in. 

I'm going to get my trail friends to start incorporating more exercises with the horses being apart and moving away from each other. The smaller horse we ride with needs that too since he gets fidgety when he's away from the others, and the slower horse could do with it to since he starts yelling as son as he loses sight of his friends. Herd bound horses everywhere it seems. I'll try the moving him away from them, is it okay to have them stay still while i do this or is it better if they're walking/trotting away (at first, we can work up to canter)? 

There are parts of the trail when i could take a different path, the horses can hear each other but not see each other. I could try that.

Luckily so far we haven't come across a bunch of horses running through the trees at us or past us, i think i've been pretty fortunate because with how he is now i'm not sure i could sit out that meltdown. I'll try taking him out and doing some transition work with him see if that helps.


----------



## phoenix (Jun 7, 2010)

Saddlebag said:


> The squeal denotes exhuberance. Had a mare that would squeal and buck after a swim. She wasn't trying to get me off, she just felt so good. I never got after her for it. On the other hand she'd let out a dirty buck if pushed too hard. I didn't get after her then either because it was my fault and it was her way of telling me. When on a ride with others it goes much better if the horses are allowed to find their own place in the line.


So you're saying the squeal just means he's having fun and wants to join in the running? He might get the chance, i'm going to experiment with my friend with the slow horse and see if pushing Phoenix on when the other horse starts to canter is a way to get him out of the buck, it might make it bigger but well i guess i'll find out.

If it was up to Phoenix he'd stick himself right at the back and stay there, which sometimes i let him do, other times it's nice to be either mid pack or up front, makes him pay better attention.


----------



## Shyanne (Aug 28, 2012)

Maybe you and your friends should save the cantering for the arena and relax on the trail.....? Just sayin....


----------



## Spirit Lifter (Apr 23, 2012)

Good for you for not giving up on a bucking horse. I got bucked off of Spirit and broke a rib. Now I have a fear of that on the trail when she starts to get antsy. I can't imagine owning a bucking horse for years. Guess I'm not that good at staying in the saddle at 51.


----------



## phoenix (Jun 7, 2010)

Shyanne said:


> Maybe you and your friends should save the cantering for the arena and relax on the trail.....? Just sayin....


We were doing this, walking and trotting mostly but both of my friends like to canter and we did figure out a way for them to canter and me to trot, it's been working okay so long as my friend doesn't get absent minded and canter off without warning. 

My friend has agreed that our next trail will be a nice slow relaxing mosey through the countryside.




SpiritLifter said:


> Good for you for not giving up on a bucking horse. I got bucked off of Spirit and broke a rib. Now I have a fear of that on the trail when she starts to get antsy. I can't imagine owning a bucking horse for years. Guess I'm not that good at staying in the saddle at 51.



Well thank you. I couldn't give up on him even if i wanted to, he had a rough life before me and his hip issues were a big cause of the bucking. Plus, he's got a great personality so i'm willing to work with him. He makes a great trail horse if everything is going smoothly. I still do have the fear but honestly it happens so infrequently and i've learned how to get him stopped and calmed down pretty quickly so i can deal with it. No one else will ride him though, they're all a bit nervous of him. He's only managed to unseat me a few times so i've been pretty lucky, plus he's a straight bucker, he doesn't do that twist thing which i can't sit at all so i'm lucky in that respect.


----------

