# Pinning ears at feeding time...



## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

I guess it depends on the horse, with young horses I always make a point of going in with them and handling them a little when eating their grain so they are used to it and don't fuss about it, just accept that I am going to do that. Sometimes I have had an older horse that may do it when I am putting the grain in, I don't do much if that's all, I can go in with them and handle them or even reach over the stall to pet them and they accept it and don't put their ears back. I have noticed that horses often put their ears back just when dumping in the feed but stop it when the feed is there.


----------



## GracielaGata (Jan 14, 2012)

Might be pinning of excitement and anticipation. Esp so since they don't misbehave... I would definitely try to mess with them more when they eat. Our 2 eat out in the pasture, and I use the opportunity of them being still to check their bodies over every day for injuries, check feet, etc. Only with the grain bowl will my mare get tail switching annoyed, but knows she is not allowed to act on that annoyance and will just deal.


----------



## kaitlynbowles (Sep 30, 2013)

My mare does this at feeding time. I researched it a few days ago and found a trainer who takes their feed bowl out into the field, and won't let them approach until they come forward in a more acceptable manner. To me, pinned ears are extremely disrespectful. Horses on the bottom of the totem pole don't approach a dominant horse at feeding time with pinned ears, so they definitely shouldn't approach me that way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HoochonIce12 (Jan 20, 2014)

My horse Hooch is usually the sweetest horse in the barn but the second that grain bucket comes out - oh boy. He turns into a little terror (well, BIG terror, he's a 16hh TB). I think its just his thing, he gets overly fussy with hay and grain. I call it his alter ego Mooch lol.

I usually just make sure he knows to get out of my space and dump the feed. I linger sometimes if I have time to and just let him know that he still has to behave around me. All in all I think its just him being hungry and trying to assert dominance so he gets fed first, like in the pasture he'll chase away the other two pasturemates to get his pick of the hay.


----------



## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Total disrespect. This mare is competing with you bc she thinks you want HER feed.
It is the same as when a dog won't let you touch her food and growls at you. I do NOT let my dogs growl when I feed them. I nip THAT in the bud by taking away the food.
It is common for horses to test you.
Do NOT let her pin her ears and still receive the food. I get a little taste of this sometimes with my 16'3hh, 1,500 lb gelding. He will sometimes not put his head over the stall to be haltered for leading to turnout. So...I take the mare out first. When I come back his attitude has changed.
You will have a LONG session the first time you try to fix this. No problem...set aside the time. Do NOT put any of her food down until she is pleasant. Let her watch all the other horses there eat while she yearns for it.
Then, feed her one flake at a time, until she finishes it. Do not put out the next flake of hay until she is pleasant. She won't be sweet the first time, but she will improve. It won't take more than a week to discipline her. It is obvious that she has trained YOU to accept the bad behavior. Be the head broodmare/head stallion and retrain HER. It is well worth it bc disrespect at feeding time grows worse and manifests itself in ALL aspects of handling and riding.


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Sounds like she is feeding them out of order and feeding the least dominant first as well as disrespect. As they are within eyesight she needs to feed in alpha order. That should help. If the mare still pins she needs to demand respect.


----------



## aerie (Jul 19, 2010)

Corporal said:


> Total disrespect. This mare is competing with you bc she thinks you want HER feed.
> It is the same as when a dog won't let you touch her food and growls at you. I do NOT let my dogs growl when I feed them. I nip THAT in the bud by taking away the food.
> It is common for horses to test you.
> Do NOT let her pin her ears and still receive the food. I get a little taste of this sometimes with my 16'3hh, 1,500 lb gelding. He will sometimes not put his head over the stall to be haltered for leading to turnout. So...I take the mare out first. When I come back his attitude has changed.
> ...


I like this! I don't mean to hijack this thread but I am curious if this would work for a horse that kicks their stall during feeding... we have a mare at camp that is an absolute pleasure to be around, no bad manners at all except for when it comes time to feed... Our barn has one large center isle with a row of stalls down each end of the aisle. There are two smaller aisles on the opposite sides of the stalls where the doors to their stalls are so we don't have to go into their stalls to feed, just walk down the center aisle. I am not a fan of the layout, but I don't get to dictate how the barn is built... anywho so this mare will kick at the stall door and has actually broken the latch a couple of times waiting to be fed. We will wait to feed her last and wait until she isn't kicking at the door, or rush to feed her if she is acting really good. That being said we still haven't broken this habit so I wonder if we just have to wait longer... In the mare's defense more than a few times my barn staff will feed her when she isn't kicking, but still is pinning her ears and acting disrespectful, I don't but they do....


----------



## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

How many of mine do that? None.

How many have ever done it at me more than once? None.

I've worked with horses all my life, of various breeds and disciplines and ages.

I put up with no pinning of ears, no attitude, and no disrespect.

Ever.


----------



## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

We each have are own ways and methods, and you just need to pick yours and be consistent. All our horses go to their "spot" at feeding time and wait for their feed. After everyone has their feed pan, I use the time while they are eating to look them over injuries, etc. If I occasionally get an ear back or a tail swish (typically from the lower horse who want to protect their food), I'll just give them a "hey", a quick poke, and continue on with my inspection. None ever kick, bite, or anything else, and as long as you are consistent with your "limit", ear pinning doesn't escalate. If you want to enforce a "no ear pinning" environment, that's fine, but it's just your choice, neither good or bad, imho. For me, after I've given them their feed pan, eating is "their time" and except for looking them over, which they know I do every time, I just let them enjoy their meal. To each his own.


----------



## Janskee (Nov 16, 2013)

I make my gelding move out of my way when I feed him his grain, and if I bring him into his stall and he has been given hay, I make him turn and wait while I take his halter off before he reaches for any hay. He never pins his ears at me, and if he did, I wouldn't feed him until he was nice. He does pin his ears at his neighbor when I get to the barn to feed him, to warn him off (he is in the next stall, so couldn't steal my geldings food in any case, but my horse still does the pinned ears at him). When I arrive at his stall with the feed, there are no pinned ears towards me at all. I also will sometimes use feeding time to check him over, etc. so that he is used to me being in there and messing with him, so he doesn't give me any attitude about interrupting him, either.


----------



## Ace80908 (Apr 21, 2011)

Daisy is not disrespectful with body. She goes to the back of her stall (its 12 by 24) and faces me when I am putting the feed in her stall. While she is eating her blankets are put on at night and taken off in the morning as well as a quick brush. She is not pushy and I have never felt a safety issue in her stall, either at home or at the shows. She is quite respectful in hand and under saddle. Successful show horse and is turned out to pasture after breakfast and comes in at night. She comes when I call and is a pretty nice mare all around. 

I think I aree with PaintHorseMares - maybe the ear pinning is my limit with her, as she is the boss mare and dominant in the field, but won't let the baby ear pin as I don't want him to get too big for his britches. Just curious on other thoughts and opinons... thanks all for your replies


----------



## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Just so you know, Daisy IS disrespectful with her body bc her ears are part of her body. The best thing to do is realize that ANY disrespectful behavior needs to be dealt with immediately. My excellent 15yo mare tried to nip me first ride last year when I tightened up the string girth (English saddle). I punched her right away in the her and told her, "NO!" She backed down and we had a pleasant ride. String girths don't pinch and, since I taught riding I *always* check my pad and adjust 4 fingers behind the elbow. She just didn't like something snug against her winter fat!
That was the one time she tried this in about 3 years. THIS is how you keep a respectful horse respecting you. Horses are always watching the pecking order and are at the ready to move up when the opportunity presents itself, so you need to pay attention.
In order to train and keep a respectful, pleasant horse of either gender is to stop denying that your horse has a problem by listing her attributes. Then, your horse becomes a joy. After 10 years of lessons (1985-1994) and culling the horses that didn't work out--and >1,000 hours under saddle every year bc of my lesson program and CW Reenacting weekend AND riding vacations, ALL of my horses were a joy to handle, trailer and ride. I've been there. I've been kicked--once right above my left eye (from a horse that was going blind), taken falls, once thrown and broke my arm, and I advise bc I don't like to hear about anybody ELSE getting hurt. It's NOT about being right. I guess I don't even care if you take my advice. But I know that many newbies read through these threads, so I write for anyone who might have your problem and would like to know how to solve it...even you. =D
Qtrbel, I agree about feeding in pecking order. Thanks for posting that.


----------



## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

I dunno, my 2 year old always sulks when I bring out her food. I take it to the front of her stall and say "HAPPY FACE" and will drop it as soon as she perks up her ears for me. She does it quick on a good day. 

However, I have been doing this every day for the last year, and every time she will automatically sulk until I say "HAPPY FACE". She hasn't given up yet. If you go after her in her stall, she will cower in the back. None of our other mares do this, so I'm hoping she will eventually just relax.


----------



## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

I bet that by continuing this she WILL get over her "depression." =D


----------



## kaitlynbowles (Sep 30, 2013)

I'm sorry, but pinning her ears is being disrespectful with her body. Pinned ears are a warning.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ace80908 (Apr 21, 2011)

OK - heard you. I'm good to go. Thanks.


----------



## kaitlynbowles (Sep 30, 2013)

So, you will just be ignoring this behavior? I don't want to come off as rude, I am truly just curious as to how YOU will choose to handle this behavior.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

In the spirit of this forum providing a medium for the non judgmental exchange of information, ideas, and experiences, I suggest that we leave the OP with all the valuable information that each and every responder has provided. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## kaitlynbowles (Sep 30, 2013)

How is asking what she has decided to do judgemental? I made it clear that I wasn't trying to be rude.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

It depends entirely on if they're ear pinning in an aggressive 'I'm going to attack you' sort of way or just in a 'hurry up I want me food like yesterday but I'll stand her and wait patiently all the same' sort of way
As long as there's no actual threat then I just ignore them - I've had a mare that's done it for all of the 21 years I've owned her and has never tried to kick, bite or push me around, its just how she is and I can do anything I like to her when she's eating with complete confidence so I don't see it as food aggression at all - just her way of being impatient. As long as the horse knows its not OK to get dominant then I really don't care that its not standing there looking 'ears pricked' every minute of the day


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Not trying to get into the discussion, just food for thought.

If the boss mare wants to walk through the herd she does. The other horses part way... with their ears pinned. They still make faces they just know better than to act. The boss mare doesn't bother with them because she knows she is set where she is and it's a waste to go chasing after them when they aren't doing anything. If any horse doesn't move she will flick an ear at them and they will move quickly then she goes back to happy.

IMO the horse can be as fussy as they want as long as they are respectful. I should be able to safely go in and feed and handle them. They want to be cranky, fine but they better not do it *at* me or in my space...and they don't. It's self expression. I know many horses where if you fuss about every little thing life would be much, much, more difficult. Let them have their opinion, as long as they don't effect you. 99% of horses that pin there ears at feed time are not pinning them at the person feeding.

Personally I don't like it when people say "my horse needs a pleasant expression all the time" Wtf? I don't walk around with a "pleasant expression" all the time... who cares what face I'm making, it's none of their business. Let them be a horse, it's not an affront to you.


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

kaitlynbowles said:


> How is asking what she has decided to do judgemental? I made it clear that I wasn't trying to be rude.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I didn't think you were rude at all, even if you hadn't specified that the first time.


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Sorry for the additional post but I wanted to add..

Even if the horse is pinning it's ears because it's annoyed/impatient/whatever, teaching it to put its ears up will not make it less impatient (or whatever). All you are teaching is for the horse to *not* communicate. You will have an equally ****y horse with "happy ears". What does that really mean? Then we wonder why so many of our horses have social issues and are confused.


----------



## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Gotta disagree. I NEVER let pinned ears go unaddressed. You either (the horse) respect me or you don't. I'm happy to love on my horses when they are behaving, but my big guy is 10x bigger than me. It becomes more complicated since he had been scared by the previous owner (NOT the breeder, for those are familiar with his breeder), and then I spooked him (regarding the mounting block) early on, so I've had to balance between the discipline and the praise.
If he pushes it, bc he is 1,450 lbs, or so, and the herd leader of the three, I HAVE to address it and reassert my head broodmare status. He backs down, relaxes and I love on him, then he drops his head and chews.
I don't care if my herd leader should be fed or let out first. If he misbehaves and acts like I'm another horse to be bitten or kicked, he will warn with his ears and body language first. I will make him wait until last. Herd leaders remain the leader bc they won't let this behavior get by unaddressed.
I know that language on a forum post can be murky. I do not take a whip and beat my horses. I DO use a whip to train and I'm not above smacking the chest of my horse if he ignores cues on the ground to back up.
THIS IS PRECISELY WHY WE ALL SHOULD TAKE A GOOD AMOUNT OF LESSONS before we buy and own a horse, so we know how to handle a horse and how to handle bad behavior appropriately.


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

It definitely does depend on the horse.

That said- I have a very aggressive horse and you can't back down to him, at the same time you can't nit pick about everything because you'll **** him off (can't blame him). He will pin his ears. He knows not to act on it. He will bite/kick if you don't know how to handle him. I've never had a problem.

I did not get the impression you beat your horses lol.

I just don't think a horse *standing quietly and respectfully*, that also has their ears pinned is thinking of you as another horse to be bitten and kicked. This is how horses behave. The boss mare rarely needs to reassert herself because she IS boss. It's the lower ranking horses that constantly squabble. The boss mare's roll is very peaceful. The other horses respect her and she does not chase them around every opportunity.

Obviously if the horse is threatening to hurt you you should respond accordingly. However, I don't think the ears pinned *by themselves* or an "unpleasant" expression is anything more than that, and as I said it's very rare that any of that is directed at you (assuming you don't let the horse be a brat or threaten to hurt you). I completely agree that the horse must be respectful and safe, I just think we need to look at their body language as a whole. Ears signify mood/focus not intent. If the horse wants to bite/kick the rest of the body will make that clear. I think we put too much focus on "expression" maybe since as humans that is our primary (short of speaking) form of communication and it is hard for us to understand the nuances of body language. Horses use body language as a primary the ears are a very small part of that. I've seen horses with their ears up where it's clear that they are NOT feeling pleasant. Too much focus on a tiny little aspect that means more to us than the horse, and maybe too much "controlling" from the humans. Let the horse be a horse, as long as it respects you there is nothing wrong with that. Yes it's hard to communicate on the internet. I think we can agree it depends on the horse and aggressive or disrespectful behavior is never ok.

As long as the horse is standing quietly and patiently and behaving I don't care about their expression. Neither does the boss mare.


----------



## CESJ (Mar 16, 2014)

when i bought my mare she was in a terible condition, and she was missing 70 kilos from the weight she should have... she wasn't fed at all so she was realy insecure, when i put her food she would pin her ears, stomp her foot, kick, and act like she was ready to bite... i was a newby so i put up with it and didn't know what to do.. then i started feeding her grain and hay by hand, and that was the end of it, plus it made an incredible bond


----------



## kaitlynbowles (Sep 30, 2013)

I understand horses won't have their ears forward all of the time, but ears back and ears PINNED to their head are very different. I hope these two things aren't getting confused. I would never let my horses pin their ears at me, whether it be during feeding time, grooming, girthing, etc. They can stand quietly with their ears relaxed back, but never pinned. 
We all do things differently, and I completely understand that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

kaitlynbowles said:


> I understand horses won't have their ears forward all of the time, but ears back and ears PINNED to their head are very different. I hope these two things aren't getting confused. I would never let my horses pin their ears at me, whether it be during feeding time, grooming, girthing, etc. They can stand quietly with their ears relaxed back, but never pinned.
> We all do things differently, and I completely understand that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And that's the biggest problem - a lot of people simply can't tell the difference between a horse that has its ears back and a horse that has its ears pinned in a way that really means its aggressive and a risk.
As Yogiwick has already said - you start nagging and punishing a horse for no good reason and it soon becomes negative, confused and even worse - defensive. Essentially you've created a problem that didn't exist before
For an example take CA who is really big on respect and notice how his horse Mindy looks really annoyed, ears back a few times in this video - but he makes no big deal of it because he knows he has that horses respect and no matter how fed up she might be she knows who her leader is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxW-OdfKVZs


----------



## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

I once had an older mare that would put her ears back just as I poured the grain in her feeder, she wasn't pinning them and I know that all I had to do was speak to her and she would perk up and listen and I could pet or handle her as much as I wanted while she was eating so I never made an issue out of it. Now with a younger horse or foal I would not like to see this and always made a point of handling any of my horses at feeding time so they were used to it and didn't take offence. My horses are always put in their own stall for grain so they never have to feel protective of their feed or worry about others trying to get some away from them.
One time I was weaning 2 foals and I put them together in one big stall so they would have company and one foal was a little bossy and he would walk up to the other one with his ears back and this one would give way to him. I went into the stall and the little fellow thought he would try this tactic with me and walked up with his ears pinned back, I just flicked him on the end of his nose and said "doesn't work with me buddy". It was comical to see the surprised look on his face as he decided that wasn't the way to deal with me.


----------



## Ace80908 (Apr 21, 2011)

I decided not to pick a battle, rather to win the war. My mare does everything I ask her to do, I don't feel it is in our best interest to nit pick about what I consider a little thing. As long as she remains respectful in her movements in the stall and out, I am going to not worry about it. I do agree with Jaydee, Yogiwick, and Painthorses in that I can "read" my horses quite well, and understand that she is not being disrespectful, but rather impatient, and honestly, I don't care that she lets me know it... 

I appreciate other people's views about how to raise their horses, and there are some valid points being made in this thread. I was curious what other people experienced, and what they thought about the behavior. Now I know. Again, thanks for your responses.


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

jaydee said:


> And that's the biggest problem - a lot of people simply can't tell the difference between a horse that has its ears back and a horse that has its ears pinned in a way that really means its aggressive and a risk.
> As Yogiwick has already said - you start nagging and punishing a horse for no good reason and it soon becomes negative, confused and even worse - defensive. Essentially you've created a problem that didn't exist before
> For an example take CA who is really big on respect and notice how his horse Mindy looks really annoyed, ears back a few times in this video - but he makes no big deal of it because he knows he has that horses respect and no matter how fed up she might be she knows who her leader is.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxW-OdfKVZs


Exactly. Nitpicking will loose the respect. The boss mare never nitpicks. She doesn't need to. The "wannabe's" are the ones that squabble all the time.

Some horses are just cranky/moody. If you nitpick those horses I can pretty much guarantee they'll be disrespectful AND angry, and it will be directed AT you.

The best way to earn respect is act like you already have it. KNOW you have it and so will the horse. Now obviously this isn't a be all end all but it's very important.

It's not only proving you aren't the leader if you constantly have to "reinstate" yourself but it also annoys the horse, when the horse is standing there saying "what, I was listening!".

I saw a lady trying to line her mare up at the mounting block. The mare was standing close but not close enough. Instead of re-positioning her or maneuvering her into position the lady used the crop (not hard but hard enough) The horse didn't understand because she was already standing close. The lady used the crop harder when the horse didn't move. The horse kicked out at her and pushed into her space. She corrected the horse and then used the crop again. At this point I suggested she simply walk her into a circle and realign her. She did at the horse was perfect and stood nicely. Now from the lady's point of view she wanted the horse to move and the horse wasn't. From the horses point of view she was standing next to the block, in the corner, and the lady was trying to move her into the block, she didn't listen because the block was there (big wooden block) and she was next to it, and then pushed into the lady's space because she was confused and became defensive when the lady continued to hit her. For "move half a step closer to the wall" whacking with a crop isn't the way to go.

Not obviously this isn't super relevant to this thread, but it's a very good example of the horse being confused by what the person wanted and being upset because she thought she was doing the right thing and then was being corrected (and physically felt trapped as well). This is what nitpicking does. The horse is standing quietly and politely, and is then in trouble for having it's ears pinned. Does the horse know this? No. The horse says, well I was standing nicely like I'm supposed to and now I'm in trouble?! You lose respect and leadership and the horse is confused and annoyed. And doing this constantly makes those things worse and also makes the whole leader thing that much worse because a good lead mare doesn't care what the other horses do because they are below her, she isn't bothered or threatened by their drama because it doesn't effect her. Proving the drama does effect her shows it's not a true boss mare, but just another "wannabe".

Believe me, I do not let my horses fuss at feed time, and I do not let them show aggression towards me under any circumstances. Short of that they can do what they want. I let them be horses and I feel I have their respect for that. As for the aggressive horse, he would probably literally eat me if I pestered him constantly. I respect him so he respects me and we have a working partnership.


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

jaydee said:


> And that's the biggest problem - a lot of people simply can't tell the difference between a horse that has its ears back and a horse that has its ears pinned in a way that really means its aggressive and a risk.
> As Yogiwick has already said - you start nagging and punishing a horse for no good reason and it soon becomes negative, confused and even worse - defensive. Essentially you've created a problem that didn't exist before
> For an example take CA who is really big on respect and notice how his horse Mindy looks really annoyed, ears back a few times in this video - but he makes no big deal of it because he knows he has that horses respect and no matter how fed up she might be she knows who her leader is.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxW-OdfKVZs


The best way to deal with *most* cranky/moody/aggressive behavior is to simply ignore it. Now I say most since if the horse takes a chunk out of your arm you shouldn't be "oh good pony here's a treat"! but I feel for pretty much any situation where the horse is not actually going to hurt you ignoring it works best. Obviously actual aggressive or leading to aggressive behavior should be disciplined promptly. I work with a LOT of horses like this. Nitpicking is a good way to make the horse actually aggressive..

Honestly for me too, if I'm in a bad mood just act normal. Don't ***** foot around me, it's annoying, and definitely don't get mad at me for being cranky, just act normal and I'll come out of it 

I think at about 1:40 in that video is a good example (a little before). If he reacted there she'd think "oh, he reacted it worked", think less of him and not listen so well and probably be more annoyed. Responding is giving in and picking a fight. He ignores her, she continues to listen and respect. She can feel what she wants (cranky mare? lol) and still *willingly* do what he says.


----------



## Blue Duck (Mar 19, 2014)

I had a horse that would do very similar. Only difference was mine would show a little more aggression than what you described yours was doing. Throwing his head around and challenging me. I got that under control but he still pinned his ears and didnt have as good of manners as I wanted. The first thing I did was figure out exactly what I wanted my horse to do when I was feeding him or taking him back to his stall. This gave me a goal to work with my horse and I would have a clear approach. I decided I wanted my horse to stand and act accordingly until I released him and turned away to leave. Only then was he allowed to go and eat or do his thing. Obviously at first he still pinned his ears and looked aggressive. I put pressure on him at the first sign of that. However I released it and allowed him to correct his manners. When he stood there like a gentleman I praised him. We went back and forth for half an hour. then I would stop and leave on a good note. I did this every time I went in his stall. I did not halter him or anything until he was at the gait waiting with good manners. Then we would go out. When we returned after training or whatever it was the same thing he stood at the gate I took his halter off then with my arm around him I made him stand there. Eventually I slowly transitioned to him standing there without my arm and he was to wait until I turned and left before he was allowed to lose focus on me.


----------

