# Crow-Hopping Horse.



## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

Hello. I have A Rodeo Horse that is Crow hopping. She has A tie-down and does it with or with-out one. Can you give me some tips? Also She does this during the events also.:evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil:


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

She is just very worked up it could be from being excited or being anxious..Both of my barrel horses crow hop a good bit but it helps if you warm your horse up away from the arena and only go near the arena when it's your time to run. My mare does it because she is excited and loves her job. Hickory hops because he makes himself anxious and it's not good for him. I keep him away from the arena as much as possible at a show until it's our turn. You need to also make sure that YOU are centered and calm. If your horse knows that you are nervous and all worked up so will s/he..Keep a calm and cool mind and don't work your horse into a mess before you run..

Also, a tie-down has nothing to do with the crow hopping..


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

I Never Take Her Near The Arena Till Its Our Turn And She Does It Home Too.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Then it could possibly be something that you are doing that works her up and gets her to that point. It would be helpful if I knew when exactly she was doing it. 

Do You Really Have To Type Like This?


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

It sounds like she might just be excited during events.

You could also have a chiropractor look at her. She might be a bit out of whack and something hurts. Couldn't hurt to have her adjusted either way.


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

Ok we have already had her saddle fitting checked and a chiropractor check on her and a Dentist come and see. She does it all the time at the house too and Im calm when I ride her never really worked up. She does it different times. she has more of a rearing habit though but I dont need help on that. I dont like people telling me how too handle my horse when it comes too rearing because kicking her or turning her and stuff doesnt work on her when she rears she tends too go over backwards if you kick or turn her while she rears.


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## horselvr (Apr 5, 2011)

Is she crow hopping with her head down? If so dont let her get her head down. Is she doing it out of excitement or out of spite like she doesnt want to run the pattern? I had a horse that did it just so he would not have to run. 

If she is picking her head up and doing it I say a war bonnet will fix that along with your raring habit. She will hit that a couple times, it will be self induced and she will quit. Its nothing you even have to do and it will not even be an issue of "you" hurt her. She will associate it with the action not you the rider... 

Hope that helps GL!!


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

Thank You and she LOVESSSSSSSSSSS Too run the pattern !!!


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

I agree, you could try a war bonnet. She will learn night to pull up because she is makin herself push into the war bonnet. I'm not going yell at you about the rearing. I will say that turning and kicking is NOT the way to fix rearing. The best way to fix that would be to find a way that she makes herself uncomfortable when she rears. You should work on fixing the rearing before you try fixing the crow hopping. If the rearing isn't fixed you are going to get yourself hurt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Or you could try the egg/water balloon trick. When they go up to rear, smash it over their head so they think they've hit their head on something hard. I've heard that works pretty well.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

I have nothing for the crow-hopping, but for rearing the best thing I've found is to anticipate the rear and right before she goes up to disengage her hind end. If she's moving her butt her weight is on her front so she can't go up. 

It also helps to figure out why she's rearing and eliminate/fix that problem. Soda rears due to barn sourness or wanting to run home and not being allowed to do so... I keep him busy doing other "things" so he doesn't have time to get stuck and go up. 

The combination of these things stops the rearing after the spring tune up. It gets quicker every year. 

Sorry I know you don't want help with the rearing problem....


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## satrider (Nov 10, 2008)

DrumRunner said:


> I agree, you could try a war bonnet. She will learn night to pull up because she is makin herself push into the war bonnet. I'm not going yell at you about the rearing. I will say that turning and kicking is NOT the way to fix rearing. The best way to fix that would be to find a way that she makes herself uncomfortable when she rears. You should work on fixing the rearing before you try fixing the crow hopping. If the rearing isn't fixed you are going to get yourself hurt.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 What is a War Bonnett? Just Curious--
:?


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

Thats what I heard. If I did anything like that it would be Egg or my Horse would FREAK!!


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## horselvr (Apr 5, 2011)

A war bonnet is also called a war bridle too. It goes over the poles on the horses head, and can either cinch under the jaws or if used as a bridal the reins will go through almost a pully system in which pressure is put on the poles of the horse. It can be used for horses that rear or that dont respond well to a bit or hack. I only use it for a training aid. Once the problem stops I dont use it anymore. I do know of some people who use it all the time because technically if the horse has its head set where it is suppose to be it will be just an extra piece of equipment. 

The reason I dont use it all the time, is we do a lot of trail riding up and down hills and cross crazy stuff and swim in those cases I dont want the horse to get pressure from trying to compensate while going through these obsticales.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

^^ Yep..


Cable War Bonnet: Saddles Tack Horse Supplies - ChickSaddlery.com

When a horse rears the war bonnet pulls on the poll of the horse. So basically when she will rear she will be pulling her head down and making herself uncomfortable. She will learn to associate rearing with "oh that makes my head hurt" and she will stop..Usually..I've seen it not work on some horses but it is a really good tool for a rearing horse..

Hickory started rearing a few years ago and did it quite a bit and I tried EVERYTHING to get him to stop. I finally, in a fit of rage after he came over on me, got about a quarter length of a broom stick and got back on oops:I know it's awful) and I hid it so he couldn't see it and when he would rear he got smacked in the top of the head between his ears..He never knew it was me whacking him so he associated it with "Ow. When I rear my head hurts"..It only took about three rides with the broom stick and he hasn't reared since.. I don't suggest trying this though..I realize now that it did work for him but I could have handled it better..


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

Do u put the reins through those 2 bottom holes on the bonnet?


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

I think you should go ahead and use it as a tie-down. (most people I know do) She will be pulling hard against it and you wouldn't want to have unequal pressure on her poll, it wouldn't work like that. The war bonnet should be consistent pressure when she does rear and the harder she rears the harder the war bonnet with pull on her head and she shouldn't keep doing it.


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## horselvr (Apr 5, 2011)

Agreed with Drum Runner, I would use the war bonnet as a tie down. I personally do not use it as a bridal. The two loops at the check / jaw bone will be where you connect the actual tie down to. I run mine through the breast collar and down to the girth so I dont break my breast collar.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Yeah. You need to run it through a tie down keeper on your breast collar..mine is just a loop of nylon that I have on the center of my breast collar. The keeper keeps the tie down strap centered under the horses head and along the neck and chest. It can even be just a loop of good thick string. I've forgotten one before and had to use a hair band.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

*scratches head* wow....
sounds like the horse is burnt out - esp if tack and everything else fit fine and it's not a pain issue. rearing and going over backwards and crow hopping definitely doesn't sound like a HAPPY reaction to me.... *sigh*


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

^^ Hmm, I agree. I think it is wrong to advice someone to use a piece of tack, when they clearly have no idea how to use it, how it works and the in's and out's - to try to solve a problem - especially on a horse that is burnt out.

This horse needs some quiet time.


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

She Is NOT burnt out. People Always say that and she was just started in september and is only fast loping the pattern right now. 0.o


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

A horse can get burnt out just walking the pattern. 

The only time I suggest using a tie down is for leverage when going around the barrel, stopping, etc. A tie down is not meant to keep your horse from rearing or misbehaving. It sounds like her crow-hopping and rearing is a training issue rather than her just being a brat. Take her out on the trail, let her relax and get off the pattern. Even if she loves to run, she needs a break so that won't change.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Ohh, see I thought she was a "trained barrel horse" like you said. If she has only been running barrels since september she is probably burnt out from a training issue. It could be that she was pushed too fast and isn't ready for it. I would take a step back and let her have a nice LONG break from barrels. Like Spastic said, a horse can easily be burnt out just walked the pattern. They will get sour of work if the aren't ready for it and it's too much for them. I do wear a tie-down on my horses but ONLY when practicing and at shows. I never really push either of my horses at home either. At the most they will get a fast lope and thats it. Most of the work on barrels that I do is trotting the pattern VERY correctly. I mean to a T correct in every way. When our show season is over for the summer all of our horses get a break from barrels (usually between two and three months) They only get light work outs about twice a week and alot of trail riding. NO barrels..The break gives them time to relax and be a horse so they don't get burnt out on the work that involves barrels. I suggest you let her have a break and cool off from barrels. There are alot of things you can do with her besides barrels that will help you in the long run..try alot of long trots, slow work that involves bend and release flexing, ground work..really anything calming that involves YOU helping her relaxing work.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Are you running barrels on her every day? That would cause a burnout pretty darn fast. They need a break for other work or a trail ride every other day or every two days at least. 

It'd be like if you had to study the same subject every day for at least an hour or so. You'd get really sick of it day after day. You need a break too.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

If you have people who are around you, in person, saying that your horse is burnt out - your horse is probobly burnt out.

Stop and listen to your horse, she is trying to tell you something, but you're just not listening.


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

I can Tell all you people this. TEQUILA IS NOT BURNT OUT. She is on the pattern once a month for practice. we walk,trot,lope,Trail ride, walk, trot, lope. Walk out on the trail and done. and She goes to a show once a month so that equals 2 Times a month and she only has a tie down for leverage and turning. she only uses it when on barrels. I will post a video in a min of her running. we have a qualified trainer that said she is ready too be pushed a little and she is doing good. she only crow hops on poles usaully


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

HorseLife97 said:


> I can Tell all you people this. TEQUILA IS NOT BURNT OUT. She is on the pattern once a month for practice. we walk,trot,lope,Trail ride, walk, trot, lope. Walk out on the trail and done. and She goes to a show once a month so that equals 2 Times a month and she only has a tie down for leverage and turning. she only uses it when on barrels. I will post a video in a min of her running. we have a qualified trainer that said she is ready too be pushed a little and she is doing good. she only crow hops on poles usaully


wow sounds like she's perfectly trained - can't imagine why you are having any problems with her or since you already know you're doing everything right why you'd even need to post about it on an internet forum. it's clear to me that you know your horse better than any of us and obviously no advice anyone on here gives is going to help as you have clearly rebutted any and all advice given. 

glad to hear she's doing so well, is so wonderfully trained and that everything is great....


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## morabhobbyhorse (Apr 17, 2011)

I am jumping in without a whole lot of knowledge on this but I'm wondering if you do other things with her besides arena work. If not it could be she just gets excited since you say she loves to run the patterns. I know barrel racing is very competitive but I think no matter what a horse's job is, they need breaks. Have you tried riding her away from where she 'works' and working on some head down cues to relax her. You can start those on the ground. And I don't mean using a tie down, I mean something you do to get her to put her head down more which automatically relaxes a horse. I'd start from the ground up and see if you're rushing through anything, grooming, haltering, tacking her up that might be getting her hyped. With my mare when ever I have her haltered I throw in a few 'head downs' just to remind her. Pull down on the lead and when she lowers her head the least release. When I first got Sienna I looked like a sumo wrestler haltering her, would go under her head with mu left hand and 'flip' the poll part of the halter over to my right because her head was so high, LOL. Now she lowers her head and basically puts her head into the halter. It's easy to miss some basics that lead to bigger things later.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Ohhhhhh OK! Since your professional trainer is SOOOO AMAZING you shouldn't need our help. I mean come on, I don't run barrels or anything and I sure haven't been doing it for years. And wow, I don't go to state championships every year..I just don't know a thing..So, I'll let you and your great trainer handle your horse. So have fun. Hope things work out for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

DrumRunner said:


> Ohhhhhh OK! Since your professional trainer is SOOOO AMAZING you shouldn't need our help. I mean come on, I don't run barrels or anything and I sure haven't been doing it for years. And wow, I don't go to state championships every year..I just don't know a thing..So, I'll let you and your great trainer handle your horse. So have fun. Hope things work out for you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is interesting. When someone asks for help, they are told to get a trainer. When they say the have a trainer, they are thrown attitude and sarcasm... The OP is trying to tell you that she isn't burnt out, and perhaps ask for another explanation to the problem. If she and her trainer don't believe she's burnt out, why keep telling her that she is? Obviously she isn't going to accept that she's burnt out, so it might help to offer other suggestions...


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

We have tried to help her and she changes her story.. im not going to keep trying to help someone who doesn't make much sense. That's all I have to say. I am wasting my breath and time and it's not worth it. So, as I said, good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

The reason she is getting sarcasm is because she has had any pain issues eliminated. Teeth have been apparently checked as well as back and saddle fit. That comes down to a training issue. Wacking a horse on the head with an egg isn't going to fix it.

Who knows, maybe the video will prove me wrong, I'm very interested to see it.


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

Spastic_Dove said:


> The reason she is getting sarcasm is because she has had any pain issues eliminated. Teeth have been apparently checked as well as back and saddle fit. That comes down to a training issue. Wacking a horse on the head with an egg isn't going to fix it.
> 
> Who knows, maybe the video will prove me wrong, I'm very interested to see it.


That doesn't seem like a viable reason for her to be thrown attitude... and she disagreed with the breaking-an-egg-on-her-poll thing, thankfully.


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## morabhobbyhorse (Apr 17, 2011)

I agree with Spastic-Dove to a degree, we were offering suggestions and she didn't like any of them. Mine involved a lot of time and work and she never even responded to that, so I guess she has all the basics down too. When a horse rears up and falls over there IS something wrong, something much worse than crow hopping. The child's gonna get herself killed if she doesn't get some help some where. And when a horse is rearing and crow hopping and who knows what else, it's NOT the horse. Most problems are caused by the people who own them or ride them and she needs to figure out what's she's doing.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

I never said it was a good reason, I said it was the likely reason. It's very frustrating to have someone ask for help and then reply that they have the perfect trainer, horse, and nothing you suggest could possibly help *shrug* 

A video clears that up on both sides though hence the second part of my post. 
Hope that clarifys.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Spastic_Dove said:


> I never said it was a good reason, I said it was the likely reason. It's very frustrating to have someone ask for help and then reply that they have the perfect trainer, horse, and nothing you suggest could possibly help *shrug*


I agree.


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

Spastic_Dove said:


> I never said it was a good reason, I said it was the likely reason. It's very frustrating to have someone ask for help and then reply that they have the perfect trainer, horse, and nothing you suggest could possibly help *shrug*
> 
> A video clears that up on both sides though hence the second part of my post.
> Hope that clarifys.


Yes yes I understand. I would like to see a video as well. She seems young and may not be very good at getting across what she wants to say, which is very frustrating to the people trying to help her.


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

Alwaysbehind said:


> I agree.


third.


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

She Doesnt know about her crow hopping on poles... I only meet up with her once a month and im 13 years old for god sakes get off my back. I Trail ride on her 5 times a week and arena work twice a MONTH and she is not perfectly trained and im not perfect...


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## morabhobbyhorse (Apr 17, 2011)

Honey, I'm just afraid you're going to get hurt if you don't deal with the rearing. I could tell you were young by your responses. I'm not on your back.


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

I'm Glad Someone Understands, Thanks EquineLvr. I disagreed with the egg breaking thing and she doesnt rear high at all maybe 2 ft. unless i try to turn her then she gets worse... So when she rears i just say whoa and relax and she continues walking. Ive been around horses my whole life and riding since 4(by myself) I was on a horse my first time at 4 months old with my mom. I Will post a video tomorrow when i have high speed


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

HorseLife97 said:


> She Doesnt know about her crow hopping on poles... I only meet up with her once a month and im 13 years old for god sakes get off my back.


Your age doesn't give you a free pass to act like a brat.

If you post on this BB, you're going to get some opinions you don't like. If you can't handle that, then maybe you're not mature enough to post here.

I'm with the others; if you've ruled out saddle fit and physical issues, then it's most likely rider error. You're obviously not as skilled as you _believe_ yourself to be.

Plus, you've been asked more than once to stop with the capitalization of every word. It's annoying and unnecessary.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

From my experience, horses who rear do so because they feel blocked up front and have no where else to go, but up.

So - what is it that you are doing, that is causing the behaviour? If not you, who else is riding this horse?

Video's would be greatly helpful here.


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

No One Else Is allowed on her bc She Is commonally Mistaked As "dangerous." Speed Racer im not trying too act like a brat but once I say that she is not burnt out and some of u keep saying it thats when imma brat and im plenty mature and its not like u know how I ride., Ive trained four of my horses and 2 for other people and my grandma owns a rescue were i help train the horses too help them get ready to get adopted out. You Probably arent that great of a rider either. Im working on Breaking This Habit. give it time....


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

If you are mature then please try to act it.

A note - no text speak is allowed on this forum.


Your current problem sounds like something you need to address with your trainer. Your trainer can see you and your horse in person and give you a safe way to fix the problem. 
It is not a problem that people over the internet can help you with.


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

Text speak?


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## morabhobbyhorse (Apr 17, 2011)

Commonly mistaken as dangerous? A horse that falls over backward IS dangerous, and we're trying our best to help you. We don't have all the answers but missy at 13 you don't even know the QUESTIONS yet. You post at a forum online, ask a question, like any kind of training or teaching, take away what you can use, and forget the rest. You don't have to argue with every post made. And you don't ALWAYS have to be right, things you'll learn as you get older. Just try to appreciate people are taking their time to try and help.


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## SaratogaTB (Jun 14, 2010)

I encountered a big problem with crow hopping while retraining my OTTB last year. First I checked saddle fit, teeth, chiro. Then I came to the humble conclusion that it was mostly "pilot error" and basically my boy was flipping me the bird and saying "I dont want to work today, it's hot". I basically had to regain the position of being his fearless leader and take a more authoritative approach. When it's time to work, its time to work. I will shower him with praise when he's a good boy. But when he doesnt feel like cantering, crow hopping will NOT be tolerated. I had to ride through it twice, smacking him with my crop as he crow hopped to test me. Once he realized that he couldnt get away with it anymore, he stopped. He has never done it again, but believe me, I am ready if he does. 

When he sensed it made me nervous, he just kept doing it. Smart horse. :wink:


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

HorseLife97 said:


> Text speak?


Yes, text speak. U is not a word, it is a letter. The word is you.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

HorseLife97 said:


> No One Else Is allowed on her *bc* She Is commonally Mistaked As "dangerous." Speed Racer im not trying too act like a brat but once I say that she is not burnt out and some of *u* keep saying it thats when *imma* brat and im plenty mature and its not like *u* know how I ride., Ive trained four of my horses and 2 for other people and my grandma owns a rescue were i help train the horses too help them get ready to get adopted out. _You Probably arent that great of a rider either._ Im working on Breaking This Habit. give it time....


The bold is all "text speak". The italics are just plain immature.

Add in the random capitalizations and lack of (or incorrect) punctuation and your posts are difficult to read at best. You should show more respect towards yourself and others and really work on that. 

I know you think we're all getting on your back and such, but it is extremely frustrating to muddle through the OP and give an honest try at helping someone only to have them basically say "nope nothing you said is going to work because there really isn't a problem."

I think you should see if you can meet with your trainer more regularly for the time being to see if you can cure the rearing & crow-hopping. The method I noted in my first post has worked wonders for me. You should also get your saddle fit checked and have your horse checked out for any pain issues (teeth, back, etc). These are the first steps you should take when your horse starts acting out, especially if you can rule out sourness issues.

Good luck with your horse.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

HorseLife97 said:


> No One Else Is allowed on her bc She Is commonally Mistaked As "dangerous." Speed Racer im not trying too act like a brat but once I say that she is not burnt out and some of u keep saying it thats when imma brat and im plenty mature and its not like u know how I ride., Ive trained four of my horses and 2 for other people and my grandma owns a rescue were i help train the horses too help them get ready to get adopted out. You Probably arent that great of a rider either. Im working on Breaking This Habit. give it time....


Riiigghhhttt, you're a super-duper wunderkid trainer. If you're so phenomenal, why is it that you have _no clue_ why your horse is acting the way she is? I'd think a prodigy like you would already have it figured out. 

You're a 13 y/o kid who has_ no_ idea what you're doing, and your parents should know better than to let you have free reign on the internet to tell tall stories about all your fabulous riding and training experiences.

You're exactly the type of kid I dislike seeing on this BB. You don't want real information or advice, you just want people to coo at you, pat you on the head, and tell you how_ wonderful_ you are.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Is the horse you are having all these problems with the same horse you posted in the critique thread?


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

Yes, it is AB and I figured it out now. Her crow-hopping is her lead changing because it happens around every pole and barrel. Also, Not all 13 year olds are beginner riders and I know plenty of 12-13 year olds who train their horses. Everyone I rodeo with has. I have been riding since I could walk. Please If you have NO advice for me other then she is burnt out and criticizing me it would be greatly appreciated if you would STOP.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

*stands clapping*

thank you SR. 

We all tried to help you and you change your story around when we question it. You have changed her crow hopping habit about four times now. You should't even be working on her crow hopping if you aren't trying to fix her rearing problem. Both problems go hand I hand and skip down the yellow brick road together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Well maybe you can crow hop down the yellow brick road.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I am not sure how you made sure a saddle fit that mare properly, consider per your posts in the critique thread her weight has changed quite a bit in just four days. There is no way the same saddle fit her during those four days.

I would guess her acting up has to do with pain.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

HorseLife97 said:


> I know plenty of 12-13 year olds who train their horses.


_Sure_ you do. And I'm certain they're all as fabulously talented as you are. Which is to say, not at all. 

I doubt seriously if you've been riding more than a month or so. You're asking silly newbie questions. If you had even _half_ the experience you claim, you'd already know why your horse is having problems.

But don't mind me, I've only owned and ridden horses for the last 33 years. I couldn't_ possibly_ know as much as some 13 y/o child with delusions of grandeur and a huge imagination.


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

This is how she was 3 months after we got her. it isnt as bad now.


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## morabhobbyhorse (Apr 17, 2011)

Why are you guys wasting your time arguing with an immature teenager? She probably doesn't even have horse, just WANTS to, and is bored so came here to rile up the 'grownups.' LOL. We should be setting an example for her because I don't think other people do.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

morabhobbyhorse said:


> We should be setting an example for her because I don't think other people do.


We're_ trying_ to set an example for her morab. Lying, arrogance, and talking back are all unacceptable traits, and she should have been taught that by her parents.

Isn't this the 'rare' horse you supposedly just got, OP? How could that picture be 3 months after you got her, when in your other thread you say she just arrived?


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

Me And My Horses. I Do Own Horses U Dumb Butts. And How Would Yall Know? You Stupid Know It All Snobs. You Dont Know Me And Go Too My Facebook And Just see. I highly doubt some of yall dnt even own horses. Im under NAME REMOVED BY MOD TEAM On Facebook...


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

I didnt say "she just arrived" And u have no right too talk about my parents


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Is this the horse that's only trotting the pattern? Slowly because she's underweight?

That sure looks like a slow trot to me... 

If you can't tell the difference between a trot and a lope I'm not going to take your "horse experience" very seriously.

ETA: Actually you did say you just got her:



> Like I Said. I just got her and she was like this. she was a abused rescue. She has come a LONG way! I asked for no comments on her weight because I just rescued her!!!


From this thread: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding-critique/please-critique-my-fl-cracker-horse-86310/


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

OP reported to Mods. Hopefully they'll agree that this type of poster has no reason to be on the BB.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Well that one photo totally explains the nasty ewe neck she has. Wow.

Did you forget the rule about text speak on this forum? I should think a 13yo that trains her own horses is smart enough to remember a little rule like that.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Horselife, if you want people to treat you like you know what you are doing and are a source of knowledge you have to try to present yourself that way. Calling people names and typing in text speak is not helping.


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## morabhobbyhorse (Apr 17, 2011)

I know we're TRYING to speed racer but all we're actually doing is giving her attention for her bad behavior. She needs a time out  And people her own age to play with.


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

Well If they would please stop saying that Ive probably only been riding for a month and that I dont even own a horse and SR keeps bringing up my parents


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

morabhobbyhorse said:


> She needs a time out  And people her own age to play with.


Agreed, morab. I suggest she go confab with her uber-successful 13 y/o peers, who are all amazingly gifted horse trainers. 

You're darn right I'm bringing up your parents! Do they know how badly you conduct yourself on the internet with adults? If they're not shocked and appalled at your behaviour, then they're not very good at parenting.


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

HorseLife97 said:


> Me And My Horses. I Do Own Horses U Dumb Butts. And How Would Yall Know? You Stupid Know It All Snobs. You Dont Know Me And Go Too My Facebook And Just see. I highly doubt some of yall dnt even own horses. Im


 
I just finished reading this thread. Despite agreeing or not with answers given, this attitude will get you nowhere. Not on a forum or in life.


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## morabhobbyhorse (Apr 17, 2011)

Speed racer, think about it. if you had a young horse you were training, what would you do? Ignore the bad behavior if you can and praise the good behavior  We're doing the exact opposite with this insecure, nasty mouthed little filly!!!!!


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

HorseLife97 said:


> I didnt say "she just arrived" And *u *have no right too talk about my parents


You have been warned about text speak on the forum. Now I am going to do it again. 

Also stay on topic. You asked for advice and it is being given. Most of it is good advice. Take it or leave it. Past that stop the name calling and bickering.


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

Like I Said. I just got her and she was like this. she was a abused rescue. She has come a LONG way! I asked for no comments on her weight because I just rescued her!!!

Read more: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-rid...ique-my-fl-cracker-horse-86310/#ixzz1MBNHRocL

And Horselvr she is only Trotting the pattern. She Is Getting Started. No Competeing until she gets some meat on her bones.

Read more: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-rid...ique-my-fl-cracker-horse-86310/#ixzz1MBNMAPV2




Thats all I have to say.


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## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

Let's not forget this is also the same horse with a blow out in her hoof. http://www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hole-my-horses-hoof-86338/ But I'm sure her bad behavior has nothing at all to do with discomfort.

And funny how you are not competing her until you get some meat on her bones, and yet,


> She goes to a show once a month


Please get your story straight from thread to thread, this is not Fantasy Island...


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## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

Well I just finished reading this whole thread and you should really listen to some of the advice being given some of these people really know there stuff and are very helpful if you just listen. It would also be great if you stop with the text talk it is unbelievably annoying, sometimes I find it hard to understand. 
It also does sound like rider error. If you have taken pain out of the equation then thats all I could think of or a hole in the training. I have a rearer and I believe that he does it mostly because he feels by doing that he can stop working and it could quite possibly me getting him in the mouth all the time. The more I ride him now after improving my own skills and concentrating on keeping my hands still he tries it much less. He still does try sometimes simply because he doesn't like working in the paddock going in circles so he decideds he doesn't want to do it. I have gone through a lot of stuff and worked this out because he very much the opposite of his usual lazy self out on a trail because he found it interesting. It also takes a lot to get his respect. 
I think it would help if you just stopped and had a think about you riding. Getting a video of yourself would really help just watching yourself can put things into perspective and it would help people form better opinions on here. You have said a couple of times you were going to put a video up but you haven't yet.


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

apachie dragon. she is pulled out for recovery. she ran this month Then I found the whole and she is pulled out and on break until september


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

OP I want to point out something that you said in a different thread.



> You Can Kill Yourself No Matter How Smart You Are. Your 11 And Trying Too Train An 1000 Pound Animal.
> 
> Read more: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/will-my-horse-still-trust-me-85645/page15/#ixzz1MBw1UuGg


Rearing and going over is dangerous. Get onto it before you kill yourself. Don't try to fix it yourself. Send the mare to your trainer, or get your trainer to come more than once a month.


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

Its Fine ive trained horses before


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## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

If you've trained horses before then wouldn't you at least have an idea of what to do when a horse crow hops?

Also when you say you've trained horses before. Did these horses behave this way? Or were they just deadheads who did whatever you asked? What exactly do you call training?


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

Some were worse. I just wanted some other opinions on own too handle this.


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## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

How were they worse then a horse the rears badly? How did they turn out when you were finished with them?


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

HorseLife, your attitude doesn't exactly make people want to jump in line to try to help you or give advice. Those that have tried to help have gotten their advice thrown back at them with phrases like



HorseLife97 said:


> I dont like people telling me how too handle my horse....





HorseLife97 said:


> once I say that she is not burnt out and some of u keep saying it thats when imma brat and im plenty mature and its not like u know how I ride....You Probably arent that great of a rider either.





HorseLife97 said:


> Me And My Horses. I Do Own Horses U Dumb Butts. And How Would Yall Know? You Stupid Know It All Snobs.


Yep, we're ignorant dumb butts that have never owned a horse:roll:. I've heard the snob thing before as well and my answer to that is this. If living through some of the things I've lived through and learning most my lessons the hard way makes me a snob in your eyes, then I'm dang proud of it.



HorseLife97 said:


> Its Fine ive trained horses before


Each person's own attitude will determine how they are treated by others at any given time. If you act like a brat, then you will be treated like a brat and from what I can read, nobody was even remotely rude or harsh to you until you started throwing your little snit fit. We don't appreciate liars around here either and your story has changed more often than most folks change underwear.



HorseLife97 said:


> She Is NOT burnt out. People Always say that and she was just started in september and is only fast loping the pattern right now. 0.o


If people are always saying that she is burned out, then it is likely true. It doesn't take very long at all for a horse to burn out if they are on the pattern too often (even at a walk) or even if they are only run occasionally but handled improperly.



HorseLife97 said:


> I can Tell all you people this. TEQUILA IS NOT BURNT OUT...... we have a qualified trainer that said she is ready too be pushed a little and she is doing good. she only crow hops on poles usaully


Okay, so you have a trainer. Why doesn't said trainer know about the crow hopping so that they can help you? It apparently isn't a new thing so why is trainer still unaware of it?



HorseLife97 said:


> She Doesnt know about her crow hopping on poles... I only meet up with her once a month and im 13 years old for god sakes get off my back.


Age is no excuse for arrogance or disrespect. In my family, you would have gotten your mouth slapped for talking like that to other people, especially your elders. If you are so convinced that you are some fantastic trainer, then why are you asking about simple things like a crow hop? I've seen lots of horses trained by young teenagers. A few of them turn out okay but most of them end up messes. The ones that are okay are usually from the kids who have trainers helping them every step of the way.

Frankly, this picture tells us pretty much all we really need to know about your ability.


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## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

thank you smrobs your wording on this is a lot better than what mine probably would have been.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

CJ82Sky said:


> *scratches head* wow....
> sounds like the horse is burnt out - esp if tack and everything else fit fine and it's not a pain issue. rearing and going over backwards and crow hopping definitely doesn't sound like a HAPPY reaction to me.... *sigh*


Ditto...

Or she just has learned how far she can go to get out of certain things. 

A horse that wants to rear or crow hop when I'm on him gets his butt put to work...and hard...if he is 'bored' or in tune with everything else around him, then you need to get creative and figure out how to get his focus back. 

In order to retrain a horse like this, I also go back to the barebones basics as well; I will do alot of ground work, and as far as headgear when I ride, he goes back into a simple snaffle of some sort. You can't laterally bend a horse with a curb bit of any kind, and gags aren't all that pleasant, even though they are 'tooted' for lateral flexion and engagement. 

A horse that rears is responding in such a way because he feels he has no other way but "up" to go, so figure out why he is feeling that way, and work through it; rather than putting more equipment on him, or using methods that may wind up backfiring severely (ie whacking him over the head with something). Same with crowhopping; either he is being blatantly disrespectful and just needs to be worked harder to push through it, or he is not understanding what you are asking, and your cues are just aggravating the situation further.


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## Buckcherry (Nov 18, 2010)

This is a forum for advice not criticism. And Yet most of the posts I read on here are filled with critisizing remarks. And it's always the same people. 

Yes some of the things the OP posted were inmature, but in all fairness here you all did egg her on. Posting that she doesn't actual own a horse, and she shouldn't be training, and she doesn't have good parents are all very uncalled for remarks. 

She was trying to tell you her horse isn't burnt out and you all weren't listening. Be the adults here and try to set an example.


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

Shmrobs, How Does that Picture tell you about my ability? Finally, Someone listens. Thanks Buckcherry. This is called horse forum and its for giving advice not too egg on teenagers when they only ask for some advice so I have different stuff too try. Ive Been riding my whole life, I own 6 horses currently 4 trained by me and I just wanted a wider variety of things too try.


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## Tennessee (Dec 7, 2008)

Whooweee, a lot of y'all need to fall off of your high horses and hopefully knock some civility back into your brains.


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## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

This just about the picture to me it looks like she isn't happy and the fact that her head is up in the air and exactly how tight do you have those reins its dark but they look very tight to me. Shouldn't you give her more head. 

Also yes some people may have gone too far but they were giving you advice that you asked for and you didn't seem happy with what you getting. I hate to tell you just because you have been riding your whole life and you own 6 horse 4 of which are trained by you does not make you experienced and a good horse person. It just states that you have a lot of horses and you have been riding for awhile but not necessarily correctly.


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## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

Also are you going to post a video? I'm curious and I want to see one.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Well, you are hauling on her face in a curb bit, there is zero lateral bend in her neck, her head is in your lap, your feet are way far forward and that means that you are either plopping on her back or balancing on her face, and frankly, it looks like a barely controlled runaway. A trainer would know that the horse is sour and needs to go back to the basics to get some bend and real control back into her and get her where she isn't so hollowed out.


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

Something is causing her to act out. Thats what you need to figure out. Maybe next time your trainer is out ask her to ride her around the poles/barrels and see if she acts the same with her as she does with you. 

Most of the time it is rider error that causes a horse to act out. It doesn't mean you are a bad rider, but maybe you're doing something she doesn't like. 

Take a step back and re-evaluate your riding, your horses condition/mentality, and your attitude towards her when she is acting up. You never know what may be triggering her crow hops so you need to look at it from a completely neutral standpoint, like we see it. You might find something you missed before.


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

She Was Weaving Not Turning. She Neck reins on a dime and slide stops with a tap sooooo yeah And she is ridden in a snaffle now and has the ability to run 3d in it...


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## Buckcherry (Nov 18, 2010)

And just another thing I'd like to point out..

The best way to become a better rider/trainer is to get advice from others who ride and train horses. So use your knowledge to educate


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

Now if this isn't me being hypocritical, I don't know what is...


What arena in the whole wide world of sports lets a 13 year old run without a helmet?


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## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

what do you mean she was weaving not turning why would she be weaving around a barrel?


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## Tennessee (Dec 7, 2008)

corinowalk said:


> Now if this isn't me being hypocritical, I don't know what is...
> 
> 
> What arena in the whole wide world of sports lets a 13 year old run without a helmet?


 
Uhm..tons of arenas do. Helmets are NOT typical in the Western disciplines. Matter of fact, I was at a saddle club show this previous weekend and out of the hundreds of entries in the youth barrel racing, four were wearing helmets.


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

This is her turning.


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## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

I thought when your competing under the age of 18 or something you have to have a helmet on in western?


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## Tennessee (Dec 7, 2008)

apachewhitesox said:


> I thought when your competing under the age of 18 or something you have to have a helmet on in western?


No. lol. We get laughed at for wearing helmets around here. It's not a big deal. Let it go.


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## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

Yeah but why would she be weaving around a barrel? My little mare weaves but she doesn't have a straight neck when doing it she has some degree of bend in it. It also looks like in that picture you have just yanked her face around.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

Tenn, I ride Western and I frequently go to youth events. Everyone is required to wear a helmet under the age of 18. It would be an absolute insurance nightmare if they didn't require helmets for children.


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

Texas barrels Thats why she was weaving around a barrel and helmets are barely ever required in barrel racing. there is 8 year olds riding without them


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## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

I'm sorry I was just asking because I don't ride western and that is just what I had heard.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

apachewhitesox said:


> I thought when your competing under the age of 18 or something you have to have a helmet on in western?


Usually only if it's some kind of officially sanctioned event. Small, local shows and jackpots could really care less and is entirely personal choice. Buuut back on topic.


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

apachewhitesox said:


> Yeah but why would she be weaving around a barrel? My little mare weaves but she doesn't have a straight neck when doing it she has some degree of bend in it. It also looks like in that picture you have just yanked her face around.



I Dont Yank her!!!! here is another pic on that same barrel weaving and all horses are different...


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## Tennessee (Dec 7, 2008)

corinowalk said:


> Tenn, I ride Western and I frequently go to youth events. Everyone is required to wear a helmet under the age of 18. It would be an absolute insurance nightmare if they didn't require helmets for children.


 
I'm at local shows every weekend and helmets are rare. There's not a law where I am, and thank God there isn't because I don't wear a helmet either (I'm 17).


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## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

hey no need to use exlamation marks. I am just writing what I am seeing. Yes horses a different to a degree but she looks stiff and resistant. She looks like she has some serious muscles developing under her neck from this.


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

I'd also like to see a video of you riding her. That could help us iron put what is going on here. 

And, I'm not sure if you diregarded what I said In my previous post, but I really think you need to see this from a neutral position.


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## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

I agree Lonestar


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

The horses are bracing against the bit...it is really clear in the barrel shots...that horse is really bracing. A horse should follow the feel of the rein, not lean, or brace against it when he turns. Essentially, if you were to let the turning rein go, and still keep a little leg on, he should still maintain his body postion, and head and neck should remain on that circle. I grew up gaming horses (also did pleasure), and I know how hard it can be to maintain that softness, but is is possible. Part of it is trying to maintain "most" of your work as calm work; ie don't practice all your patterns at home at speed. Trot them, or walk them, lope part of it, and trot the rest, etc...Basically work at keeping the horse's body and mind engaged, rather than in 'speed' mode, and make sure he is responding to your seat, and legs, rather than just your reins. Do TONS of transitions, especially with horses that like to get dorky on you (ie, crowhopping/rearing).


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

I Will try too upload a video now if our computer will let me if not I can tomorrow afternoon can we all please just quit argueing and discuss nicely what the heck is wrong with me or the horse? (Not that we are really argueing anymore.)


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## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

Well as far as the bracing goes I say stop doing the speed games for awhile and go back to basics. Like mom2pride said do lots of transitions. Just work on getting her soft. I'm not a barrel racer but I have two ex barrel racers and one was successful and the other wasn't. Guess what the successful one was the one who bends great and has the speed but also stop and turns with just seat and legs. Whereas the other one was not good because he was stiff, dropped his inside shoulder, has his head in the air like a giraffe and braces (like your girl in the pictures). So I say take a break and just go back to basic to get her soft.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

I have just mentioned what is wrong with the horse...I'm not sure whether it's due to you, or just the horse evading the pressure...that you can't really tell from pictures, nor will I say, since I'm not there, you know?


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

She is bracing against me because I hold her back alot and she wants too run and I can let her because it messes up the whole pattern and training. That is the only problem At the moment that I know why it is happening. She is going too be off until september because her hoof. I will upload videos tomorrow afternoon because my computer wont let me right now.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

OP- We all have given you very good advice and I really wish you would listen and take it to heart. I can't tell you how to fix your exact problem because you keep changing your story and making excuses for things you have said. I have run barrels for years so I think I know what I'm talking about. By looking at all of your pictures you can see that your horse is uncomfortable to say the least. You are having to pull on her face hard to get her to turn. You can also tell that she clearly isn't set up for her turns. If she was only started a few months ago like you said then she clearly isn't ready for the speed you are asking from her. In your pictures she is blowing every turn because she hasn't set herself up and that could be causing some of your problems. I don't know if it is because it is a training issue and she hasn't learned to set herself up or you aren't doing it for her and don't know how. Setting up for a turn is THE most important thing to do in barrel racing. It centers your weight and control of her and it helps her turn the barrel correctly. In every one of your pictures she looks uncomfortable and like she is being forced around the barrels and can't follow her head with her body. As for the "weaving" picture, I run all five events and I have never seen texas barrels set like that and you wouldn't want to be weaving looking like you are because it shows that you have having to snatch her head back and fourth to get her to weave and if you were weaving, you should know because your a trainer, that you weave with two hands and not one because if you use one you aren't going to have enough control weaving. She blew her turn in the pole run really bad and it shows you were unbalanced in your saddle. She again is following your weight because your feet are positioned wrong and so are you. If you were to put a video up of your problem and your "trained rodeo horse" we could help your alot more but, please don't make excuses about your video problem. You don't have alot going for you by acting like a brat and claiming things and then changing you story and making excuses. You aren't taking any constructive criticism when you ask for it and you are throwing a fit when we don't tell you how amazing you are and tell you what you want to hear.

and PLEASE remember Not To Type Like This Anymore..It's annoying to say the least and STOP talking n txt tlk. U hve alrdy been tld n I advise U lisn. Thnx!

This is how a turn should look.. Yes, that would be me, I am not a dumb butt and Yes, I do own horses.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Her crow hopping is lead changes? Have you never felt flying lead changes before? :? 

From the photos, it _looks_ to me that she needs to go to dry (not pattern) works and you should ask her to round her back and lift her ribcage to carry herself. Having a degree of collection and balance will help you on any of your gaming patterns. It's good that you are taking her out on the trail, but remember every time you ride, you are either training or untraining your horse. Give her some days off, but be productive with your rides. Help her relax and carry herself properly and she won't brace against you and hollow her back out regardless of what speed you are at. 

She should be taught to come back to you or extend her gait nearly instantly. I would work on teaching her this if that's why you think she was bracing. Regardless I think some dressage or reining lessons would be extremely beneficial to both the horse and the rider here.


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

If Thats what a turn should look like then why isnt your horse even bending??


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

DrumRunner. PLEASE STOP SAYING I DONT KNOW HOW TOO DO STUFF WHEN YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN ME RIDE EXCEPT TOO PICTURES?? You Will See. Tomorrow afternoon Im posting a video and I have ran tour of champions and stuff and Ive Won saddles


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

This is how we usually look. Except im not looking were we are going in this pic Whoops...


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Because she is rounded out and her HEAD is following her body smoothly. I don't have to snatch her head around and her body blew the back of the barrel and be sloppy. 

Sherri Cervi









Charmayne James 

Brittany Pozzi-Parr


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

Yeah I Know about all these barrel racers...


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## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

Can you please stop writing with capitals and watch your grammar and spelling. It's kind of making it difficult to read your posts. Maybe it would be easier if you had written a large post with all the story/information needed rather then adding bits and pieces of information here and there later when questions pop up.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Yeah, look at their pictures and theirs..BIG difference..


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

DrumRunner said:


> Because she is rounded out and her HEAD is following her body smoothly. I don't have to snatch her head around and her body blew the back of the barrel and be sloppy.
> 
> Sherri Cervi
> 
> ...


It's interesting that I so often hear members get smashed because they direct rein in leverage bits, yet I see two professionals in the pictures posted with not just leverage bits, but leverage bits with very long shanks, and they appear to be direct reining... it has always been in the back of my mind when I see someone say something about it. Is there a reason the "direct-reining-with-curb-bits-is-wrong" rule does not seem to apply to barrel racers? I'm honestly curious.


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

Well they are in NFR im only in state but not on this horse


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

If you teach your horse to be balanced and use it's body properly (and the same for you) you may not reach NFR times, but you can maximize your horses potential. All we can judge is those pictures (I'm curious to see the video) but right now the horse is not working properly where these horses are for their sport.


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

Videos in the morning then you can critique all you want because you have actually seen our pattern


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

On my mare I use a combination bit that has a twisted snaffle mouth, a rawhide nose band that is wrapped with vet wrap so it's not so hard on her and a chin strap..

I ride Hickory in a short shanked tom thumb or snaffle on a good day..

I know quite a few people who ride in leverage bits..Charmayne has a few leverage bits in her line of bits. 

I know people who ride with a combo bit with a bicycle chain mouth. It makes me furious to see it and watch the horse run and come out with a bloody mouth but, they aren't illegal around here so I can't say anything to stop them.


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

I ride in a Snaffle Headsetter it looks like this. Excuse my face in the picture I couldnt find any others. she has a wire that holds the band up now so it doesnt cut of her air.


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

DrumRunner said:


> On my mare I use a combination bit that has a twisted snaffle mouth, a rawhide nose band that is wrapped with vet wrap so it's not so hard on her and a chin strap..
> 
> I ride Hickory in a short shanked tom thumb or snaffle on a good day..
> 
> ...


Shouldn't the noseband only be necessary if the horse is green? Or are you talking about a tie down? I wouldn't personally use a combo noseband/curb bit for something like barrel racing. Seems like a lot of pressure going up and down at the same time.

To the OP -
I think what DrumRunner is trying to tell you is that your horse's body should follow itself naturally, instead of going neck-first. Take a look at this photo you posted:










Her body is being left behind, which makes for a front-end-heavy turn, which makes her use the wrong muscles and will make contesting very uncomfortable for her. She should drive with her rear end. I'm sure there are others that can explain how to accomplish that in contesting better than I can, though


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

HorseLife97 said:


> and She goes to a show once a month so that equals 2 Times a month and she only has a tie down for leverage and turning.


Why exactly are you using a tie-down and a headsetter at the same time?


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

I ride her in the combo bit because that it what she was trained in. I bought her finished from a lady who would handle her. I did try to change her bit but the freaked out and really with anything lighter she will try to run through it and I have to work even harder setting her up because all she is focused on is run. Believe me, I wasn't really thrilled about it but it works for her and I'm not harsh on her mouth at all.


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

The Head setter is just a smaffle with a fleece noseband...


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

DrumRunner said:


> I ride her in the combo bit because that it what she was trained in. I bought her finished from a lady who would handle her. I did try to change her bit but the freaked out and really with anything lighter she will try to run through it and I have to work even harder setting her up because all she is focused on is run. Believe me, I wasn't really thrilled about it but it works for her and I'm not harsh on her mouth at all.


Have you ever tried a similar bit without the noseband? If so, does she run through it?


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Nikki's bit


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Yeah, didn't work.

alot of barrel racers use longer shank bits. ALOT of people I run with also swear by the jr cow horse bit..My sister runs in it.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

HorseLife97 said:


> The Head setter is just a smaffle with a fleece noseband...


You don't put a bit on a headsetter, it is used like a tie-down.


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

I skipped so much of this. Looking at that picture with your horses head up in the air, I will tell you she is fighting you. There is no bend anywhere. I honestly think you need to go back and start her on barrels like she's Never been on barrels. Walk, trot, canter and getting control of her body. Work on her flexion. Where your head turns is where her head turns. Where her head turns her whole body needs to follow. Start over is my suggestion. While she is not being worked now, work on flexion. Everyday!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Tennessee said:


> Uhm..tons of arenas do. Helmets are NOT typical in the Western disciplines. Matter of fact, I was at a saddle club show this previous weekend and out of the hundreds of entries in the youth barrel racing, four were wearing helmets.


Florida appears to have a law that riders under 16 are required to wear an approved helmet.

Lots of states have such laws.

It is a legitimate question and for someone who is getting upset that others are being rude you were pretty rude telling Cori to drop it.


It is clear that HorseLife does not really want help, she just wants to boast about her greatness and tell everyone else they are stupid. Every bit of help that is offered is shot down.


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## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

Since the horse is going to be off until September now anyway, this gives you a perfect opportunity to start her over the right way, if you will actually give her the time off and then start from scratch, with a good trainer to help you. Don't waste the chance you are being given and let her have the time to learn it properly when you come back to it.


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

I have to agree with Always here. I've been lurking here and if the information, suggestions and opinions aren't good enough to the OP then this thread should be closed. Its ridiculous to open a thread asking for help and fight posters every step of the way. You have your Almighty trainer who gets paid to train, (which in my opinion) isn't worth a $1. This horse is either burnt out or just rushed into this with no real understanding of what its doing. Good luck with your trainer and barrel racing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Maybe this horse just doesn't want to be doing the discipline she's being asked to do? Something to think about.

I'd hate to see what happens to this mare if things don't go the way the OP wants them to go :/


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

I'm taking the advice now since people are writing it in a nicer manner. I won't consider burnt out yet but I have tried jumping. She doesn't like that. By the way, I jumped before barrel racing. For Five years. Thank you for the advice everyone. I am taking it all into consideration. I will restart her when september comes. Until then, when her hoof heals, She will be going on a light trail ride 2 times a week. She LOVES going in the arena and gets really excited!!! As Charmayne James would say she "hunts" the barrels.


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

DrumRunner said:


> You don't put a bit on a headsetter, it is used like a tie-down.


 Well there are two types of head-setters. Go too google images and type in snaffle headsetter and my bit will come up. This is What it looks like.


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## morabhobbyhorse (Apr 17, 2011)

HorseLife why don't you go on to something else. I'm getting messages every time you post something ludicrous. Did you invent a new sport called barrel weaving where your horse is not supposed to turn, but rather jump out from under you? And look at yourself in the second picture....She may be turning good but it's completely away from the pole, and you are looking down, not where you want her to go. So your hands are telling her one thing and your body something totally different. You need to ride with your whole body, not ask her to guess what you want to do. And her mouth is open so you are probably hauling on those reins so hard you have her tongue stuck in the back of her throat. You should slow down, get in balance with your horse before even thinking about these events. Just because you manage to stay on her doesn't mean you're doing it right, and I know eventing is fun, I did it at your age too. And probably made all the same mistakes. But your horse is NOT happy, it's easy to see that, and if you have 4, why don't you use one of your others for these things, and go back to the basics with this mare?


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

Well Morab, unsubscribe then. Also, Could you please stop being so rude? Like seriously.


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

One has laminatis and the other is a TWH and Will NOT gallop or lope she only walks and running walk. The other is one years old.


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## morabhobbyhorse (Apr 17, 2011)

I wasn't being rude, I was being honest, something you seem to dislike. I'm not going to tell you that I've never seen anyone ride as well as you and your amazing. You're 13 and may be amazing someday but not until you decide if you ask for help people are going to give their opinion. So all the other 3 you trained but one won't lope, etc. yada, blah. I try to make allowances for your age, but it gets harder and harder. I guess since I know kids your age who are honest, and do like to get others opinions so they can improve, and know how to be polite.


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

morabhobbyhorse said:


> HorseLife why don't you go on to something else. I'm getting messages every time you post something ludicrous. Did you invent a new sport called barrel weaving where your horse is not supposed to turn, but rather jump out from under you? And look at yourself in the second picture....She may be turning good but it's completely away from the pole, and you are looking down, not where you want her to go. So your hands are telling her one thing and your body something totally different. You need to ride with your whole body, not ask her to guess what you want to do. And her mouth is open so you are probably hauling on those reins so hard you have her tongue stuck in the back of her throat. You should slow down, get in balance with your horse before even thinking about these events. Just because you manage to stay on her doesn't mean you're doing it right, and I know eventing is fun, I did it at your age too. And probably made all the same mistakes. But your horse is NOT happy, it's easy to see that, and if you have 4, why don't you use one of your others for these things, and go back to the basics with this mare?


I honestly think you're just fueling the fire and should discontinue posting and unsubscribe to this thread. You're only making it worse and letting the OP know even further that you think she doesn't know what she's doing. You are clearly skeptical but please don't accuse her of things unless you know, for certain, it's the case. I saw no proof she was "hauling on the reins so hard the horse's tongue is stuck in the back of her throat". In the first photo she posted, she made it clear it was an older photo and that they'd improved a lot since then. Until you see a video, I don't think any of us can give a proper and accurate critique.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Equilove said:


> I honestly think you're just fueling the fire and should discontinue posting and unsubscribe to this thread. You're only making it worse


Honestly, I think the same could be said for your posts.

It does no one any good to coo over things when they are blatantly wrong. 
I am all for self confidence and the like. But telling someone they are the bestest and patting them on the back when they are doing things totally wrong does not serve them in the long run.

Better idea. We all stop posting.


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## morabhobbyhorse (Apr 17, 2011)

Trust me, if I knew how I would unsubscribe. And snaffles, when pulled on hard DO shove the tongue into the back of the throat. And the horse's mouth IS open. And I didn't realize when she'd been asked three times what she meant her mare was weaving, not running barrels right next to a barrel, it was a rude question. Also I didn't realize asking her to drop this after 15 pages I was being rude. Thank you for pointing out my misbehavior, I have only so much patience. And if you'll look at my first several posts I did offer advice, and in that one I did also. I have made every mistake a person can on a horse I think, and she is looking down, etc. But I can assure you the last thing I intended was to fuel this fire. I'll just delete follow up emails until I figure out to unsubscribe because I'm also new here.
Thank you alwaysbehind, I said that twice yesterday.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Morab, go to your User CP page. The tab is right there at the top left of your screen.

It will take you to your own page, and show you the threads to which you're subscribed. You can then unsubscribe from that page.

The system gets a glitch now and again and subscribes you when you don't want to.


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Honestly, I think the same could be said for your posts.
> 
> It does no one any good to coo over things when they are blatantly wrong.
> I am all for self confidence and the like. But telling someone they are the bestest and patting them on the back when they are doing things totally wrong does not serve them in the long run.
> ...


I am certainly not condoning anything she may do wrong. I feel strongly, however, that no one really knows her horse but her, and she is a kid, and obviously not very good at getting her story across. There's a lot we don't know, and I think we should think of it from her perspective. This whole thread is a mess. I am trying and failing to be the peacemaker, lol  I hate conflict... ha. I do my best to try and understand everyone's situation. I can understand why she is frustrated, and why others are frustrated at her. Nothing we can do, though =/ Let me explain to Morab how to unsubscribe, if I can get it right...



morabhobbyhorse said:


> Trust me, if I knew how I would unsubscribe. And snaffles, when pulled on hard DO shove the tongue into the back of the throat. And the horse's mouth IS open. And I didn't realize when she'd been asked three times what she meant her mare was weaving, not running barrels right next to a barrel, it was a rude question. Also I didn't realize asking her to drop this after 15 pages I was being rude. Thank you for pointing out my misbehavior, I have only so much patience. And if you'll look at my first several posts I did offer advice, and in that one I did also. I have made every mistake a person can on a horse I think, and she is looking down, etc. But I can assure you the last thing I intended was to fuel this fire. I'll just delete follow up emails until I figure out to unsubscribe because I'm also new here.
> Thank you alwaysbehind, I said that twice yesterday.


Click "User CP", and then it should show your subscribed threads, and you can unsubscribe then I believe deary. If there is a new post in a thread you're subbed to, you can unsubscribe right on that screen.

I apologize for trying to "break it up". It's not my place


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## morabhobbyhorse (Apr 17, 2011)

Thank you Speed Racer, Cheryl


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

HorseLife97 said:


> I Dont Yank her!!!! here is another pic on that same barrel weaving and all horses are different...



From the 2 pictures you posted of you and your horse around the barrel it tells me you have a HUGE hole in your training. So big that you could float a Aircraft carrier through it.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

HorseLife97 said:


> If Thats what a turn should look like then why isnt your horse even bending??


The horse is bending. Just enough to do the job required. If you get too much bend the horse will toss his rear out disengage and will start to pull his way through the turn. Just like when you are doing turns/spins in reining. You do not want too much bend. It will really really mess things up.


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

Notice the crow-hop on the 4th pole on the way down. Ha sorry my mom isn't that great of a video taper haha =)) I have too keep pretty tight reins on her though or else she blows the pattern then there is a video of us on horseshoe, the horseshoe was the 2nd month I got her we have improved since.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

She looks bracey to me in those videos. The same advice I posted earlier applies after seeing them. She wasn't being disobedient with the 'crow hop', it's more of the fact that you are holding her back in her face while urging her forward with your leg so she sort of popped up in her turn. 

If you train her to come back to you with your seat and rely less on your hands, you shouldnt need to keep a tight rein on her and I think that will solve a lot of your problems.


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

Yes im working on that. She will now go loose reined nicely thank god haha Thats what I thought also After watching it. She is doing it because im urgeing her foward but then again im holding back alot!


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Exactly, she is only responding to how you are riding her. If we tell our horses to go forward and stop at the same time, often they feel the only direction to go is up. She looks like a forgiving mare though and I think that if you work on teaching her what I mentioned before you should be good. 

Also work on her leg yields, lifting and moving her shoulder, and really responding to your leg. 

Right now you're really riding with your hands. Your turns around the poles are big and she's dropping her shoulder and going on the forehand. If you learn to stay balanced over her center of gravity (right now you are tending to lean and not stay centered) and teach her to do the same off the pattern, you can bring that onto the pattern and have a faster, cleaner, and more balanced run. 

Hope that makes sense.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

She would also run a lot faster if you let her lower her head.


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

Thats Why she has a tie-down poseidon. I just started her with it and she runs ALOT better because of her head and I can ride with looser reins now. Thank God Haha Thanks for the advice too the people that are nice about it =))


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Why is your polebending video from over a year ago? I thought you had just gotten her? You also said that she had just started last septemeber. And what she is doing between the barrels isn't a crow hop. It's more of a yanked on her mouth trying to do a lead change. Where are your barrel videos that you were going to post?


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

DrumRunner said:


> Why is your polebending video from over a year ago? I thought you had just gotten her? You also said that she had just started last septemeber. And what she is doing between the barrels isn't a crow hop. It's more of a yanked on her mouth trying to do a lead change. Where are your barrel videos that you were going to post?


Woirking on the barrel video right now. Also, I didn't mean too write 2-13-10 I meant 2-13-11 sorry


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

If she can't travel with her head down without a tie down, she is just going to brace against it with the tie down on. 

Physically no, she can't put her head in the air as high as she wants to. But her back will still be hollowed out. It's not their head that matters, it's their neck and their back that matters.

Think of it this way. If you stood on your hands and knees on the ground, then stuck your head up in the air, what would happen? Your back would hollow and your belly would go down to the floor, you wouldn't be able to take deep steps with your back 'legs' and you would sort of shuffle around. 

But if you were on your hands and knees and let your head down and let it stay relaxed while you lifted your belly and ribcage you would be able to to step under yourself with your back 'legs' and your posture would feel much looser and more relaxed. 

It sounds silly, but if you actually do it and feel the difference in your own body, it makes a lot of sense. Your horse CAN NOT be relaxed while bracing against a tie down and riding her in a ties down will not train her to be relaxed.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

First I did not see a horse crow hopping. What I saw was the same thing I said in my other post from the pictures. I see a horse who needs A LOT more training. You are dumping her into her lead changes pulling her back and pushing her forward at the same time. She has no where to go. To back to work on the basics. Stop running even walking any pattern and start getting basic body control on the horse then work from there. Until you get some very basic control you will never get a better pattern. Putting tie downs on and bigger bits is not going to change anything.


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## BrewCrew (May 12, 2010)

I would basically re-start her on barrels. Go back to the walk and do drills to get her hindquarters moving and her body bending around the barrel. Build back up to where you were slowly, after having perfected things at a slower gait.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I never saw any crow hopping either........*rubs eyes* did I miss it?

Our horses reflect 100% of what we are doing in the saddle, regardless of discipline. So instead of pointing your fingers at your mare, stop, take a step back and ask yourself what is it that you are doing, to cause the behaviour you are getting.

You've recieved educated responses - you are too in her face, you haven't given her the import building blocks needed, to be the competant Gaming Horse that you want her to be. 

This isn't your fault, you're just a kid, this is the fault of those around you - but give yourself credit for stepping up and asking for help, so that you can learn and grow and become more educated in this department. 

As I've learnt over the years of riding, and clinicing under Olympic Level Riders - is that "A Good Rider Blames Themselves and a Poor Rider Blames Their Horse" and also another that sticks with me "A Good Rider Conforms To Their Horse, a Poor Rider Makes Their Horse Conform To Them"

Something to think about.


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## HorseLife97 (May 9, 2011)

Ok thank you MIeventer !


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