# Over Horsed???



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Someone is rarely said to be "overhorsed" because his horse is trained to a level beyond his ability. The phrase normally means someone who has a horse that needs training, but who doesn't have the ability, experience, facilities, expertise, etc to provide the needed training.

I feel like something of an expert on the subject, since I've been overhorsed on the same horse since I took up riding at 50. She isn't a bad horse. She isn't mean. She is much calmer now than she was a year or two ago. But she needs to be ridden a bunch of 10 hour days to get the boogers out of her mind, and my back won't hold up for much more than 1.5. It would help if I could take her out and run her silly, but the trails and even dirt roads near me have lots of gullies and lots of rocks and she isn't graceful enough to trust her to do them at speed.

So she is a sensitive, well-intentioned but spooky mare. I have neither the body nor the facilities to train the boogers out of her mind. She has improved, but she is not a trustworthy horse. She is also certainly NOT trained at a high level, nor bred at a high level (mentally...she comes from good lines physically). I am "overhorsed" with her...:-x...5 years and climbing.


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## TrailTraveler (Jan 4, 2014)

Re: Being "over-horsed." I think that term applies to anytime a horse is _more_ than a rider can handle. Usually, it involves a rider whose ego outpaces his/her ability. For example:

An inexperienced rider purchases a green horse with the assumption that s/he can train the horse without the assistance of an experienced trainer. S/he doesn't have the horse-sense to read the horse properly (doesn't understand its prey-animal instincts); anthropomorphizes the horse (credits it with human emotions and thoughts that it just doesn't have); and considers the horse an equal-partner rather than a subordinate. This is a recipe for a disaster -- without a strong, swift trainer intervention. 

Another example of being over-horsed might be: A timid rider purchases a "tester" horse that pushes boundaries, and the rider is unwilling/unable to become the horse's leader.

My story: I bought my mare, Sooz, because she is exceedingly well-trained and has a pretty good temperament most of the time. She was a "tester" when I bought her, and while I'm not fond of that type of horse, we've had a couple of CTJs and she understands our roles now. 

I fully understand that, _when it comes to horses_, Sooz is smarter than I am! ;-) We take a private lesson every Tuesday so I can "catch up" to her, learn to cue her better, learn to speak her language. That's one of the ways that I show my respect for her; and in return, she has learned to respect me: She doesn't try to nip me anymore. She doesn't paw the ground in my presence. She lifts her feet when I ask. She doesn't walk off after I've mounted without being asked. (Like I said, she was a _tester_, when I bought her.)

Is she perfect? Nope. But we're working on it. Am I perfect? Definitely not! Nor will I ever be -- but that doesn't stop me from trying. ;-)


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

riders frequently are over horsed. a horse that is too smart, too sensitive, too athletic or trained to the point of having specific buttons can easily be too much. So can a horse that is too dominant for its rider. A horse that can willingly and successfully pack beginners is a special type of animal, and one that willingly packs kids even more so, because it not only has to be forgiving of mistakes, not too quiet nor too hot, not too sensitive but also has to be sensitive enough to respond to light cues.

some examples. I know someone that is a very talented rider. Very good seat, many miles on various horses. However, this person is not a dominant person at all, and can be some what nervous. Put this rider on a assertive, green or nervous horse and its a disaster waiting to happen. I can ride horses this rider cannot, despite them having many more hours of professional instruction and a lot more technical knowledge.

Also consider someone with physical limitations, like someone with slower reaction time, poor balance, not in very good shape, elderly or perhaps carrying extra weight that hinders their athletic ability. A quick, responsive horse, however nice and well trained, would be the wrong horse for any of these people. They could be said to be 'over horsed'.

Also, if you are naturally a person who is not very assertive, riding an assertive, top of the herd type horse is not going to be fun for either party. My favorite mare right now is assertive and forward, and while I love her(basically the horse version of myself), she scares the living daylight out of most other people that get on her.


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## Janskee (Nov 16, 2013)

I'm 'overhorsed' currently with a very well-trained, older horse who has had a whole showing career as an eventer and hunter/jumper. His training is part of what caused the issues (which I'm working through with my trainer). An example is that my two- point position is not that strong, and when I canter him I sometimes fall forward. He takes this as 'go faster' from his jumper training. So, I'm working on my canter and two-point on a school horse. 

I had the opportunity to watch a very experienced eventer ride my horse the other day, and she was able to get him to show all of his training. So, I'm not 'underhorsed' due to a lack of training, rather my riding skills are currently such that in asking for things incorrectly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

A beginner wreck doesn't necessarily occur because a horse is too GOOD for a beginner, but that it's too much for them to handle. Too sensitive, too green, too spooky, too dominant. Falling off happens, and injuries happen. You're much less likely to fall off or get injured on a horse that is within your abilities to handle. Riding something somewhat above your ability pushes you a little, but take it too far and you will inevitably run into a problem.
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## Rob55 (Mar 6, 2014)

Thanks for all of the great comments. I've only ridden a few times lately. When a kid I always would rather have a horse that needed reigning in than spuring. Now I have no sense of balance, no legs and no endurance in my core, and I find I'd still rather have a horse with a lot of forward motion. I do not want one that will try to rub me off on a tree or roll on me. I'm not as quick as I use to be. I guess I just think un trained, pushy, testy and down right mean are better, more accurate than over Horsed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rob55 (Mar 6, 2014)

bsms said:


> Someone is rarely said to be "overhorsed" because his horse is trained to a level beyond his ability. The phrase normally means someone who has a horse that needs training, but who doesn't have the ability, experience, facilities, expertise, etc to provide the needed training.
> 
> I feel like something of an expert on the subject, since I've been overhorsed on the same horse since I took up riding at 50. She isn't a bad horse. She isn't mean. She is much calmer now than she was a year or two ago. But she needs to be ridden a bunch of 10 hour days to get the boogers out of her mind, and my back won't hold up for much more than 1.5. It would help if I could take her out and run her silly, but the trails and even dirt roads near me have lots of gullies and lots of rocks and she isn't graceful enough to trust her to do them at speed.
> 
> So she is a sensitive, well-intentioned but spooky mare. I have neither the body nor the facilities to train the boogers out of her mind. She has improved, but she is not a trustworthy horse. She is also certainly NOT trained at a high level, nor bred at a high level (mentally...she comes from good lines physically). I am "overhorsed" with her...:-x...5 years and climbing.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rob55 (Mar 6, 2014)

Have you tried what the current trainers call sacking her out?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rob55 (Mar 6, 2014)

TrailTraveler said:


> Re: Being "over-horsed." I think that term applies to anytime a horse is _more_ than a rider can handle. Usually, it involves a rider whose ego outpaces his/her ability. For example:
> 
> An inexperienced rider purchases a green horse with the assumption that s/he can train the horse without the assistance of an experienced trainer. S/he doesn't have the horse-sense to read the horse properly (doesn't understand its prey-animal instincts); anthropomorphizes the horse (credits it with human emotions and thoughts that it just doesn't have); and considers the horse an equal-partner rather than a subordinate. This is a recipe for a disaster -- without a strong, swift trainer intervention.
> CTJ. I like that. My experience as a kid was the CTJ happened best in The ring with my feet on the ground
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

the horse that would be "too much horse " for me 10 years ago, would be a good match now. and , in a way, the horse that was ok for me then , is maybe too much for me now.

meaning, my abilities are much improved so that I can deal with a stubborn or ****y or stiff, hardmouthed horse way better than I could. BUT, being 55 as opposed to 44, I cannot ride the big movement of a strong horse as painfree/risk free as I used to. 

So, the long and the short of that is that what is over-horsed can change as you both improve and/or age. 

the happy rider is one who keeps that in mind. we are not who we were 10 years ago, in oh so many ways.


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

Rob55 said:


> Thanks for all of the great comments. I've only ridden a few times lately. When a kid I always would rather have a horse that needed reigning in than spuring. Now I have no sense of balance, no legs and no endurance in my core, and I find I'd still rather have a horse with a lot of forward motion. I do not want one that will try to rub me off on a tree or roll on me. I'm not as quick as I use to be. I guess I just think un trained, pushy, testy and down right mean are better, more accurate than over Horsed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My views are that the horses that will try to rub you off on a tree or be "pushy" or "testy" to the degree that you can't handle it are too much horse for you. Many of them wouldn't dream of pulling those kind of stunts with a confident and more skilled rider on their backs. Guess it's different ways of looking at the same term! Some people like hotter or more forward horses, and even some experienced riders still prefer quiet horses that may need a bit of encouragement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"When a kid I always would rather have a horse that needed reigning in than spuring."

Well trained horses will go fast without needing spurs, but will do so without taking control away from the rider. Our Appy Trooper is happy to stroll along at a slow walk with a marijuana joint hanging out of his mouth, but he'll also canter at a kissing sound and keep it up until you say "Easy".

Mia needs training because she will canter at a kiss, but then wants to go faster and faster while getting more & more unbalanced. Since there is no guarantee Mia will stay upright when going fast, and stopping her can mean a fight for control, she is not as well trained as Trooper and her rider (me) is more likely to feel "overhorsed". But make no mistake - Trooper can go just as fast as Mia. He just does it with better balance and better self-control.

I turned 56 last Friday. It takes me a lot longer to recover from injuries than it did 20 years ago. I've rebuilt our round pen and plan on working on Mia's canter while I'm on the ground, because having her fall on me at speed would not be fun.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

There's more than one way to view what 'over horsed' means. When I was about 9 my grandfather bought me a top level jumping pony because I'd been doing well on the little pony I had, the new pony was great for hacking out and knew the jumping job inside out but he was competing at a level that I was no way ready for so I was really just a passenger that could cling on and hope for the best - eventually the pony realized that and began to take advantage of the fact that he was in control and I wasn't. He got sold before he was spoilt and I took a steadier route up the ladder


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## Rob55 (Mar 6, 2014)

I appreciate all the candor. Am I miss counting or are most of you engaged in this thread happier with a more forward horse? It encourages me that so many of you have horses that are a little too much and you are still riding. On a different note I did something to change my screen. the like button disappeared. Anybody know how to change it back?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## princessfluffybritches (Aug 10, 2012)

Rob55 said:


> I appreciate all the candor. Am I miss counting or are most of you engaged in this thread happier with a more forward horse? It encourages me that so many of you have horses that are a little too much and you are still riding. On a different note I did something to change my screen. the like button disappeared. Anybody know how to change it back?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am much happier with a forward horse. I hate having to push a horse along. But there's forward without being insane. Along with a forward horse, a rider needs to be experienced enough to handle a forward horse without ending up with either of you being upset or fighting. I think one should ask themselves whether their relationship with the horse is getting better or worse.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I like a well trained horse...i.e., I like to be able to set the speed rather than have the horse decide to do it for me. I think Trooper is just about ideal. He'll lollygag if asked, will go fast if asked, and will slow if he thinks his rider is losing it. I'm not sure how you improve on that!


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Forward going is not being overhorsed...there are many ways to be over horsed, I was with Ben, to much horse, to green, to lively, just to reactive. I rode a trained reiner the other day, way way to much horse for me, needs a rider with more refinement than I have.

My horse, totally safe, but I do struggle with his lack of forward at times, so we are working on it. 

I also have a cute spooky Arab, she would be to much for me right now, I need to be a little lighter, a bunch fitter, and a bit braver, but at the moment she is just to much horse for me.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I see forward going as 'willing' - I like to feel that the horse wants to go because if I'm constantly having to push a horse on I think that it hates work and is deviously plotting something to avoid it
I like energetic horses that feel like they want to 'go forwards' but I don't want a horse that's sole aim in life seems to be stretching my arms so I look like the 'missing link'


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