# Bit Pulling Through Mouth



## Tracer (Sep 16, 2012)

Since I've had horses, I've been using what, here in Australia, is known as a tom thumb snaffle. It looks like this:









I've sworn by them, because my old QH can be very stubborn and the cheek pieces have always stopped it pulling through his mouth.

My new STB is a different matter. He likes to gape when asked to do something he doesn't want to do and today, for the second time, he got the top prong on the right side stuck in his mouth.

After the first time, I made up a temporary 'curb strap' out of baling twine to see if it would help. It seemed to, until he spooked at the end of our ride today and I had to one rein stop him. When the prong goes in his mouth, he understandably hates it, and I have no control. The 'curb strap' apparently isn't enough to help.

Is there an alternative to buying a full mouth bit? I've never much liked the idea of them because I know they can get caught on things quite easily, but I can't have my horse becoming uncontrollable whenever I have to pull him around or one rein stop!

I ride him in a western bridle, and the only thing I can thing of is swapping to english and using a flash noseband to keep his mouth closed.​


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Bit guards might work, has horse had teeth looked at?

And you need to do something as this will be one heck of a wreck if he gets it caught.

Training too is needed here.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

Perhaps you could put a nose band on your horse, make sure it is snug enough to prevent him from opening his mouth, snug but not too tight to cause discomfort.
Also a good leather chin strap should help to keep the bit in his mouth. Was the twine loose so that it was ineffectice? The only thing with the strap a little tighter under the jaw is, you might have to undo it each time you bridle or unbridle as you don't want it catching and causing another problem.
Some schooling to teach your horse to respond better to seat, leg aides and giving to the bit would also help.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I truly dislike single-jointed snaffles. Maybe your horse does, too.

There are large ring snaffles (single joint) that would be impossible for a horse to get through its' mouth.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Sounds like horse has missed the basics in his training :shock: not a fan of that bit & would look at putting him in large loose ring snaffle & go back to basic training on softening to bit & putting some body control on horse


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

If he was raced, he may not understand what you are asking him to do as how we use the bit when riding is almost opposite to when raced. Do some groundwork by standing by his shoulder and holding the rein in your left hand, bring his head around toward your outside hip (you're facing same direction he is). He is probably going to resist and may even do so after the first inch or to. That's ok. Push his jaw to straighten him and repeat. He will learn that when his head comes to where you want it, you release the rein pressure. It may take a few minutes or a few hours. What you are doing when he stops resisting is unlocking his poll. If his poll is locked, his whole body is. Now work on the other side. Even when you succeed with this, always spend a few minutes doing this exercise before you ride. Some days will be good and sometimes he'll be more resistant. Work on it until he relaxes.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

A proper full cheek snaffle would be your best friend here.

A Fulmer has the loose rings and proper full cheeks. Or if you don't need a loose ring, a standard full cheek will do just nicely. No horse is physically able to open its mouth wide enough for a proper full cheek to pull through. Tom Thumb snaffles are useless, honestly.

I'm riding two young horses in a loose ring snaffle and a third goes well in an eggbutt snaffle but that's because I use nosebands religiously (though never excessively tight) so they can't open their mouths wide enough for it to pull through.


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## freia (Nov 3, 2011)

Just in case something i experienced might be applicable to you...

Here's a situation I had with my very green horse this Spring.

Bit goes in the mouth, and she starts chewing, gaping, lower jaw to the side, tongue over the bit. Doesn't matter if we're riding or standing around getting bored. Busy busy busy.

I first looked closely at her mouth. Recent dental - teeth all good. Bit is sitting where it should. Holy moly! That little 14.3hh mare has a 5.75" mouth, and I had a typical 5" bit on her. Ouch.

So I put a longer bit on her. Much the same response. I studied her mouth and just what she was doing one more time. Wow. The girl has a really thick tongue, and very little room between tongue and palette. The bit is essentially gagging her.

I got her a Myler comfort bit with a low port. It gives her room for her tongue so she doesn't gag, and the barrel in the middle (the "comfort" feature) keeps the snaffle from hitting her low palette.

That made a huge difference. Now I knew she was comfy. Yet, often when riding, she would resist the bit. I'd pull, she'd pull her head the opposite way to fight me, and then she'd gape and let it start to run into her mouth. Training. I got with a trainer who taught me how to teach her to give to the bit.

She's quiet and happy with the bit now. Hopefully there's something in there that might apply to you.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

I'd work more on controlling the horse with seat and legs and worry less about the bit. Get bit keepers for a full cheek and train your horse! I can't imagine how hard you must be having to pull to get something like that pulled through the mouth. I ride in a dingle jointed o ring and have never pulled that through the mouth even without a bit hobble strap. Pulling harder is rarely the answer when controlling a resistant horse. Does she know how to disengage her hind end and for end? If you take those away from her she can't bolt. If you just keep pulling she will lean on the bit and make it worse!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## karliejaye (Nov 19, 2011)

If the only reason you're opposed to using a true full cheek bit is because it gets caught on stuff, put bit keepers on! I will only use a full cheek with bit keepers. It'll work on a bridle with or without a noseband.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Try a double jointed bit - french link type - your horse might prefer that
Use a full cheek with keepers
Try the circular rubber bit guards
Try a Flash, Grackle or drop noseband to break the habit of opening his mouth
Get his teeth check by someone who uses a gag to get right to the back of his mouth


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Don't see what the issue with a full cheek is. As said, bit keepers and even without they reallya ren't that bad.

I am wondering why your noseband allows this? Are you not using one?

Obviously this is an issue though I agree he needs more training so you don't need to worry about this.

Is he happy with the bit overall?


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

^ Western headstalls don't typically have nosebands. She rides in a western headstall.


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## Tracer (Sep 16, 2012)

> Bit guards might work, has horse had teeth looked at?


Would a bit guard be long enough to stop it even when he can get these prongs in? I believe his teeth were done within the last 6 months, but my QH is due and I'll be having his done again when I get a dentist out to get them on the same timeline.



> Was the twine loose so that it was ineffectice?


I was actually worried I may have done it too tight. I can just fit two fingers underneath it.



> There are large ring snaffles (single joint) that would be impossible for a horse to get through its' mouth.


Hmm, they'd probably also be easier to get OUT of his mouth if it did pull through.



> not a fan of that bit


Can I ask why? I see little difference between it and a full mouth.



> Do some groundwork by standing by his shoulder and holding the rein in your left hand, bring his head around toward your outside hip


He gives quite nicely on the ground. As I mentioned, the issue is when he doesn't want to do something, or in this case is spooking.



> A proper full cheek snaffle would be your best friend here.


I'll look into getting one 



> I'd work more on controlling the horse with seat and legs and worry less about the bit.... Does he know how to disengage his hind end and fore end?


He has an issue with leg meaning faster and nothing else. I've been working on him yielding (he's great at it on the ground, not so much under saddle).



> If the only reason you're opposed to using a true full cheek bit is because it gets caught on stuff, put bit keepers on


For some reason I thought bit keepers could only be used on certain types of english bridles :/



> Get his teeth check by someone who uses a gag to get right to the back of his mouth


The dentist I'm trying to get uses a gag, but he's proving hard to get a hold of.



> I am wondering why your noseband allows this? Are you not using one?... Is he happy with the bit overall?


I'm not using a noseband. He seems happy with the bit; he rides nice and quiet the majority of the time. He does toss his head and fight when a) I've let him have a pick of grass, b) he's being held back (he likes to go fast ALL the time) and c) when he's doing something he doesn't want to do.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Sounds like he's comfortable with the bit overall.

However I do think you may need to swap to a similar full cheek.

Regarding use with western bridles (sorry I didn't realize you used one) it may not be the right "look" but if you look at how it attaches I see no reason you couldn't use one, it does make the bit a little more "fixed". You can try it without as well, if you feel they are in the way then put keepers on.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

They use a leather chin strap so it doesn't pull through.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Any objection to using a D-ring?


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

If it pulls through with the bit she has I don't know what a D ring is supposed to do.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

^^ At a minimum, it would come out easier and poke less. A metal tab on an O-ring might also slip in easier since it can twist around (just eyeballing there, don't own the bit so I haven't seen it happen...but "_he got the top prong on the right side stuck in his mouth_"). It seems it would be harder to do that in a D-ring. The "D" should slide right back out.

Another option - trying to think out of the box - would be to use a bit like this western one as a snaffle, attaching the reins next to the mouthpiece:










The bridle should keep it more stable. OTOH, I've got one horse who will play with the shanks on a bit like this. It would, however, be less likely to provoke something really bad if it did go in the mouth.

Tracer will have to decide if any of it is worth trying...just tossing out ideas. I have a hard time visualizing a D-ring with a bit hobble going in the mouth, but I'm sure it has happened before.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

bsms said:


> ^^ At a minimum, it would come out easier and poke less. A metal tab on an O-ring might also slip in easier since it can twist around (just eyeballing there, don't own the bit so I haven't seen it happen...but "_he got the top prong on the right side stuck in his mouth_"). It seems it would be harder to do that in a D-ring. The "D" should slide right back out.
> 
> *Well it would come back out but if that's the whole plan just go with a loose ring? The bit is basically a full cheek snaffle with loose rings attached to the OUTSIDE of the cheeks so you get both in one. However, the cheeks are often not as long as a regular full cheek hence the problem.*
> 
> ...


Nothing against D rings at all, just not sure it will be suitable, but hey, maybe Tracer will try and love! lol


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"_The bit is basically a full cheek snaffle with loose rings attached to the OUTSIDE of the cheeks so you get both in one_."

I don't own one and haven't tried one. Just looking at pictures, I could see a horse getting one end of the metal strip angled into its mouth, where it would then catch and poke. Using a bit hobble wouldn't help, because it would attach to the O-rings outside the metal strip.

The D would come out easier and might be harder to twist inside to begin with. A bit hobble would attach directly to the D to give it more stability.

A shanked bit would have stability created by the bridle itself. I've attached the reins to the mouthpiece a bunch of times and it seemed to work OK. But the new horse I've got has big lips, and he plays with the shanks. Doesn't get them into his mouth, but he'll sometimes do it for a few minutes. Still, the upper end is attached to the bridle, so that part isn't going to go into the mouth very easily.

I also noticed that when Mia got nervous, she would play with rollers. Later on, she calmed down and didn't play with them any more. But rollers might distract the horse and reduce gaping? None of my horses gape, so I'm just brainstorming here. Hope Tracer doesn't mind folks thinking out loud...:wink:


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I don't see how anything would twist.

A roller might be an excellent idea.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

The OPs bit with keepers:










Regular full cheek with: (note no noseband)



without:


d ring:


Just for some visuals. I think the issue is the OPs personal bit has smaller sides. That may fix the problem. As you can see the bit I posted is pretty similar to the regular full cheek.

I just don't get the D ring here. Seems like a downgrade (for this specific issue).

No reason not to try a noseband either.

Honestly my ranch horse I always used a western bridle "because he's a western horse and probably isn't used to one so why bother". Put him in an English bridle (this is years later..lol) with a loosely adjusted noseband. Not even touching his jaw. Different horse. For a horse that has a specific issue I would definitely try one, no reason not to try.


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## Tracer (Sep 16, 2012)

The decision has been made to buy a full cheek bit in a fortnight when I go to Sydney. Quick questions though -

Single or double jointed?

Loose ring or eggbutt?

I've got my eye on this one, presuming the store has full-size in stock. But how do I know if he will react better/the same to the double? Is there a chance he won't like it?

Does the eggbutt change how the bit sits in the mouth? How about the bit keepers?


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Subbing ^^


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

There is no such thing as an eggbutt full cheek snaffle. A full cheek is a full cheek.

I suggested a D because a shape like this: "l" is easier to get a lip over, and will poke worse if it does, than a shape like this: "D".

A D ring or Eggbutt is a more stable design. It is stabilized by the bridle. A full cheek with a keeper is also stable as long as the keeper stays on. Where I live (Arizona), I've never seen a full-cheek snaffle for sale in a tack store except in a single joint version. Anything else requires ordering from the Internet.

A simple, double joint eggbutt or D-ring snaffle is hard to beat as a first choice in bits. It isn't the answer for every horse, but there is a reason they are widely available...










BTW - a flat piece of metal as a center link can press its edge into the tongue, making it a harsher bit.​ 
​


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

The bar on a full cheek is longer then the "normal" side and they are stable bits.

If you think he likes the single joint get a single joint. I do think the roller may help but I think it may be hard to find a full cheek with a roller. If you are getting a double joint I would look for one more like bsms posted.

But yes, he may not like it. Or...he may love it. You can change the outside without too much compliant but the inside (mouthpiece) is more challenging.

Do you have another double jointed bit you can try at home?

Bit keepers are your call. I'm assuming they're pretty cheap so maybe just get some and try it both ways.

Agree, no "loose ring" or "eggbutt" a full cheek is a full cheek.

You will also need a size in inches not just "full size".

Depending on how much of a trip for you this is you may want to buy more then one (most places will let you return it if it doesn't work) or I would personally prefer to buy and try online then buy something that may not work and I can't return (easily).


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