# Generic question about breeding.



## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Genuinely interested in why people, especially those with multiple mares/stallions breed.

I have bred a few foals, I had a very nice Haflinger Stallion, and some very good mares, and I put a few foals on the ground. I was looking to breed what I liked, a good riding Haflinger, around 14.2hh, solid, not drafty solid, but good old fashioned Haflingers. I quickly decided a few things though:

I have no interest in doing all the research needed to know all the bloodlines.

There are few places up here to showcase young Haflingers to get the name known.

The foals that I bred were really nice foals and sold well, but I always worried about their future. 

Like most people I have limited time and resources, so I couldn't keep my youngsters and start them as I would like to, and found myself not enjoying my horse life, trying to make sure the mares were broken at least green broke, to ensure their future, and that the foals were halter broke etc, well it stopped being fun and I quit.

I now have one Arab mare here who is worthy of breeding, she has shown, her mother has shown, she has siblings that have done well in the show ring. I have an awesome stallion picked out for her, but I just can't do it. I have no need for another foal, and looking at the prices for Arabs up here, the Prairies have no need of more Arabs, so why would I breed?

For those of you who are breeding, hobby or business? If it's a business how do you make money out of it? What is it about your program that makes you 'special' or makes you carry on?

LOL, there is also the small fact that I am (nearly) ashamed to admit, of all the beautiful, correct, registered Haflingers I put on the ground my favorites? Two grade foals, one deliberate breeding, my Haflinger X Arab, who I hope will be my future riding horse, and my whoopsie foal, Draft x Haflinger, who is an awesome big dude, and interestingly enough sold for more than the registered stock!


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

Golden Horse said:


> Like most people I have limited time and resources, so I couldn't keep my youngsters and start them as I would like to, and found myself not enjoying my horse life, trying to make sure the mares were broken at least green broke, to ensure their future, and that the foals were halter broke etc, well it stopped being fun and I quit.


You hit the nail on the head, some people have lots of time and money, so that may be why they do it.

If they can afford it and have the time, what is the problem?

.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

No one is talking about problems, just wondering the motivation, there must be a reason why people breed, just wondering what different reasons there are.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

I bred my made Chilly for *shock* personal reasons. I've had Chilly for 11 years. She is conformationally correct, great attitude and personality. She is a money winner, been successfully shown. So overall, it was a good choice. She has proven she has what it takes to be good in the arena, and in my pasture. Plus I have an attachment with her. I rescued her. I put all the training on her. Only a handful of people have ever ridden her, etc. That's why I bred Chilly. The foal she produced has surpassed every single one of my expectations by a million times. She is growing up conformationally correct, and an in-your-pocket personality. Sweet as can be. And has completely taken after her momma. i have had multiple offers on her and she is just over 5 months old.

when i breed again, it will be my race bred quarter horse. she has amazing, top of the line pedigree, great conformation/presence/personality. She's the whole package. Currently 6 years and in training to be a barrel horse. She'll be crossed to the best of the best stallion for that generation of horses. I'd never be able to afford a foal of that caliber of breeding (when it happens) We are talking about $15,000 to $20,000 dollar foal based on pedigree alone as a barrel prospect. I would be producing a desireable, sought after foal. 

To me, that would be worth waiting X amount of time before being able to ride/compete.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

If you have a really good mare that's proven herself then it can be really rewarding to put her to a top stallion and have a foal you can bring on from the 'get go'
Of course there are risks but there are risks when you go out and buy a horse
I worked for someone who bred a few foals every year and they were sold broke and ready to go on - a few were competed at low level and then sold. I cant say that he made any money out of it but he could afford to do it and his reward was his pleasure at seeing his horses be successful in whatever they were sold into. My husband and I did a similar thing but when he took on a job that was more demanding of his time in terms of travel we decided it was putting too much pressure on me.
I really enjoyed all the research into which stallions to use and going to look at them and seeing the results. 
I know that times have changed but we had no problems selling any of them and I think even now there's still a market for good quality horses and ponies that have been properly handled and schooled for a purpose
What there isn't room for are the mass produced rubbish


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## Aesthetic (Aug 7, 2012)

I had a mare who defied all odds and proved to be great in the barrel arena and is getting up in her years. I loved her build and personality and I bred her to get a barrel prospect in the future. She won't be around much longer, and the last two colts we bred her accidental (buying the mares pregnant and we didn't know) so this time we tried for a foal we expected.
I breed for prospects for myself. This time is was for a prospect and I knew the mare threw beautiful foals and got a gorgeous and stunning little colt out of her.
I don't breed multiple horses. I just have a few mares I breed once every few years.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

I bred my mare because I love my mare, and I really like the stallion. I wanted a prospect for myself, that also had decent resale value. I chose to breed for an anglo arab, because I love the cross and it seems to be popular. Both horses are registered, well bred with A+ temperaments.

I get a great deal of joy and satisfaction from working with a foal from the ground up, and eventually breaking it out as a fantastic saddle horse.

and primarily, I'm tired of fixing other peoples mistakes. I'm sick of trying to fix issues, where someone has spoiled a horse, not taught it to pick up its feet properly, smacked its head around, or left gaping holes in its training. Its so much easier to just do it right the first time.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

I can totally understand why people breed their heart mare, my bigger interest is why the people who have a band of broodmares do it, especially the way the economy is right now, it can't be to make money, so why do you bigger herds breed?


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Golden Horse said:


> I can totally understand why people breed their heart mare, my bigger interest is why the people who have a band of broodmares do it, especially the way the economy is right now, it can't be to make money, so why do you bigger herds breed?


Because they can.

I had an aunt (who we do not associate with anymore) that had 30-50 horses at any given time. She bred mares EVERY year. Non-registered Curlies. She'd have between 4 and 8 foals every season. And then was unable to sell them before the next year's came. And then the next year's. And so on...

She would get between $200 and $800 for a foal. And most of the time it was less then $400. Utterly ridiclious. 

By the end of her breeding career, she was GIVING foals away. And yet still had her stallion, and her band of broodmares. :-x

Completely irresponsible! :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x

Ontop of everything, she couldn't afford to feed her horses. They were skin and bones most of the time.

By the way, there was a reason her horses didn't sell. They were train-wrecks in about every way possible. Thank GOD she will never again be able to own/breed/sell/associate with horses again.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

I have always wanted to spend my time around horses. Since a very young age. 
After becoming financially secure and with the acreage i have purchased or inherited I was able to realize my dream of breeding arabian horses.
it has always been a hobby of mine and an expensive one at that.
After undergoing treatment for cancer two years ago I promised myself that I live the dream I have had for years. that idea kept me thinking positive thoughts even when I wanted to give up. I would study bloodlines and plan a breeding program to keep my outlook positive and to set a goal for after treatment
I already had broodmares that I would breed a few foals from each year and keep the fillies and sell the colts.
I bought a few more very nice mares and stallion due to the downturn in the markets and drought here in Texas.
Knowing that after the economy recovered and drought was broken people would again need animals for recreation and breeding.. The market for horses goes up and down in ten year cycles IMO. I am seeing better prices here in Texas even now. Granted we have weathered the downturn better than most
these horses are my hobby and I derive a good bit of pleasure watching the foals grow and play.
They keep me focused on positive thoughts and help me set goals for the future I once doubted I would ever see.
I have plenty of space and only have to buy grain and pay for vet , and farrier care.
Why do we do it goldenhorse? Because we enjoy it.
By the way I have seen pictures of that arabian mare of yours. She is very nice and like you stated IMO deserves to be bred.
That foal would have a value more than most foals.
I dont see how you would lose. Shalom Donald


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

dbarabians said:


> .
> By the way I have seen pictures of that arabian mare of yours. She is very nice and like you stated IMO deserves to be bred.
> That foal would have a value more than most foals.
> I dont see how you would lose. Shalom Donald


LOL that is a whole different discussion, I am no longer a breeder of any sort, I just have two nice Arab mares, mother and daughter, mum is no longer able to be bred, so have one who I could breed.

How would I lose? Well I am very attached to her, and waiting for her mother to give birth to her last foal, well that was very very tough, and I would be even more worried about Emmy. That is why I could never be a big breeder, only want to use mares I like, then worry about them the whole time. So yes, however small the possibility the biggest loss is that I could lose Emmy.

How could I lose? I don't have a lot of money, we are farmers on the prairies, farming is tough right now, once again, Emmy's mum, she came down with colic after her last foaling, I knew what it was, I knew that I needed the vet NOW, but the look on husbands face as I was dialling the number haunts me. I knew that the vet was needed, I knew that sooner would be cheaper, and would mean a good outcome for Ace, while he was on wait and see. I knew that in the seven years we have lived here money has never been an issue with the vet, I either pay the whole bill at the end of the month, or I make payments, it is never an issue. That one incident right there made me list the breeding herd, I had no business having them just because I loved them.

How can I lose, well the stud I want for Emmy has $1000 stud fee, then I have to factor in AI costs or transport and mare care for her, lets figure $1500 total to get her in foal, then vet care and extras through pregnancy, lets argue $2000 to get the foal on the ground, heck lets call it to weaning. So now I need to sell the weanling for $2000 just to break even, and I just wont get that sort of money here, $1500 tops I would say, $1000 maybe, depends on the foal, so I could lose there.

How could I lose? Well I could get a perfectly beautiful and correct foal out of this, and I could keep her (OK or him) to join my collection of beautiful Arabs, but to what end, I have two gorgeous girls already, and I also have a part bred who I love to bits, so I don't NEED another one. 

So my internal battle goes on, of course I would love a foal, I just don't need another horse:lol:


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Everyone has their reasons for or against and they are all valid if well thought out and the resources are there.
Just saying I would be very proud to have that mare in my herd.
We have bred cattle for many generations at the family place and I learned at a young age not to allow my self to become emotionally tied to any livestock. They all die or are sold sooner or later. So I avoid the emotional roller coaster we sometimes experience as owners.
I also understand the economics of farming and the fluctuations in prices.
Why I am glad we operate debt free and have for generations.
Neither my brother or I draw any money from the estate in order to keep it financially sound.
Like I said golden horse that is a nice mare and your logic is good . Shalom


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

dbarabians said:


> We have bred cattle for many generations at the family place and I learned at a young age not to allow my self to become emotionally tied to any livestock. They all die or are sold sooner or later. So I avoid the emotional roller coaster we sometimes experience as owners.


LOL it is easy for me to not have emotional investment in cows, chickens, pigs etc, I can make decisions about life death, breed or not breed easily in those animals, because lets face it, we are producing food. I want to breed an animal that will get to market weight as quick as possible, while eating as little as possible, and if it shows no inclination to kill me, itself, or others of it's own kind, it's a bonus. Keepers and breeders excel at all these points, the rest, well load onto the trailer, take to the auction and wait for the check to arrive.

I simply can't look at horses in that objective fashion, and that is the question that fascinates me, do big breeders have that disconnect, and more importantly, what is their goal, everyone has to have a goal, because if not how do you decide who to mate to who?


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Golden Horse I never said I was not attached to them. If one has to be put down or sold I do feel sadness mixed with the joy if they are sold to a good home.
I know here they will only have known kindness and good care. Once out of my possesion they are left to fate. I am not always comfortable with that and have kept mares I should have sold for better ones.
If breeding were a true business for me and I needed to live off the sale of stallion services and selling horses , I would have sold most of the stock I bred in the last 25 years to buy better show quality animals.
The large breeders I know here in Texas that have lots of mares in foal each year are brutal when the cull. They cut their losses early and if a mare no matter what her record or pedigree doesnt live up to expectations is disposed of rather quickly and by any means necessary.
Breeding is not for the faint of heart.
For instance the colt that was born here Star's Black Magic is from a mare I bought 2 years ago in a package 3 mares she was in foal.
That foal I still have and he is cow hocked . One of the worst I have ever seen. He has a full brother cow hocked too.
If when crossed with my stallion Star a foal was born with the same fault I would have sold her ASAP after having her trained to ensure her chances of a better home. Magic however has very good legs like his dam. So she stays unless the foal she delivers next year has the same fault.
One of the reasons i can disassociate my emotions from my animals is the medical condition I have as the result of a sexual assualt. HIV. 
i witnessed many people of different ages races and sexes die. Often not very easy deaths. i also lost both my parents at an early age.
I have worked and volunteered with organizations that serve those with AIDS and Cancer. Death is not so foreign or scary to those who learn early Death is as much a part of life as breathing and being born.
So I accept it as something that will happen sooner or later. I hope that gives you an insight into how I make decisions on my breeding program and a little about myself. Shalom Donald


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## Arab Mama (Jun 10, 2012)

I'm feeling the same way, Golden Horse. I have a lovely black Arabian mare, Black Beauty (I know - how original). She's my love. I'd really love to breed her just because I love her so and I've never raised my own from birth. Like you, I'm afraid of the risks pregnancy place on her health. I would feel devastated if anything happened to her, especially since there is no REAL reason to breed her except for me to fulfill the desire to have a foal out of her. Anyway, here's a good excuse to show her off a bit!


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks for your sharing and your honesty Donald, I wish more people would have jumped in, I now know a lot about one person, but have no breadth of knowledge:lol::lol:

Now for a bombshell.......

I have discovered that I actually WOULD consider breeding Emmy :shock::shock:

Yes that makes me some sort of hypocrite maybe, and also in many many people's eyes a BYB, because *IF* I bred her, it would not be to another Arab.:shock::shock::shock::shock:

It started as a random thought, that is becoming more of a why not thought, and I am soooo glad that there is at least 7 or 8 months for me to REALLY REALLY think about this and make sure that I either want to, or don't want to do it. 

I would consider breeding her to a reining stallion, and a Paint at that, breeding for a using horse, not just to put another pretty horse in the world. This is come as a shock to me, and as I say I need to go hide under a rock and think about it for a while.......


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Oh! Just saw this! Keep us updated on what you decide!


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

I breed because I can, because I want too, and because I don't care what anyone thinks. :lol:

And you are crazy for breeding her to an Arabian. LOL
I know of a super nice purebred sabino Arabian stallion that has a wicked reining record in Sask for her. ;-)


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

LOL, good answer WS, and yes it's no ones business, but yours, but there as to be a goal, other wise it is totally random, and I don't think you are random.

Tell me more about said stallion.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Golden Horse said:


> LOL, good answer WS, and yes it's no ones business, but yours, but there as to be a goal, other wise it is totally random, and I don't think you are random.
> 
> Tell me more about said stallion.


The goal is in the foal you produce - I have three left and I think I *may* keep two for a modern outcross on my older bred mares. I have cut WAAY back though - might get a year out of two more then it is just six mares and one stud and I think I have three mares leased next year. 
I only want to breed what I can afford to feed for at least three years. 

Here is a link to his ad. Her website is currently down but her email address is there to contact her:

Back to Marketplace

I've seen what he produces and they are NICE.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

GH.. it seems you have figured out the cost, the risk of losing your mare or losing the foal, you could go and purchase a foal by the stallion of your choice, but the con to that is the dam would not be your mare. You might be able to find a yearling or 2 yr old that is registered with bloodlines that you like. You could also save one from auction/slaughter . 
Someone had commented that it was no ones business, which seems quite odd, as you posted the original comment asking for opinions. Good luck to you , in whatever decision you make.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Goldenhorse have you seen the arabian stallion Matt Dillon? He is a very good reiner. Shalom


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

If you consider a half Arabian, why not talk to Pat/ Dreamcatcher Arabians on here, she's got that REALLY nice cremello QH stud who would produce a buckskin with Emmy......;-)

Register the foal half Arabian and sell, at least started, for GOOD money, from what I notice.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

You see that is what is funny, I know that I could breed Emmy to Empres, and get a really nice Arabian, but I have never been able to convince myself why I would want to put another Arab, even a beautiful one, I have enough beautiful horses and couldn't justify that breeding.

Breeding a using horse, that I can see, and yes it would probably net me a better return, to have a part bred Arab rather than a pure bred.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Goldenhorse you can have a purebred arabian that is more than a pretty head.
All mine are functional. Stay away from certain lines bred for a pretty head and you will find plenty of good correct and functional arabs. Now I too breed half arabians and the Qaurabs here are athletic and we use them for ranch work. They have the power of the QH and the stamina of an arab. When working a hundred head of cows and their calves in pastures of 100 acres or more they get the job done. Check out Matt Dillon if you want a reiner. Al Marah arabians has more stallions too. Shalom


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Matt Dillon is a complete hunk and then some. So is TA Mozart. And TW Marshall. Or Kordelas.


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