# girl scout project !!



## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

walkergal said:


> I recently visited a barn where they had a horse where one of his nerves was cut from his hip to leg so he would be "child safe"


Hu?
Can you explain this a little more?

What exactly did they do and why? (in other words, how does it make the horse child safe?)

And who said this was done? 

It sounds like a very far fetched story to me.


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

i had a horse who was tied using a metal chain on all four legs that was too tight and sliced into ger pasterns leaving nasty welts and sores.
She was fed once a week or when remembered about and watered when they went to see her.
Despite being 2 and a half malnourished and hopping lame she was expected to gallop on hard tracks and roads and not come lame. Her feet were horrific having never seen a farrier. She needed her teeth done injections etc. she was riddled with worms,her hair was falling out she had been hit around the head causing her to be head shy.

After i got her she was on an extensive feed programme with 24-7 turn out proper farrier and vet care etc. She turned into a lovely little event pony.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

walkergal said:


> I am doing a project on bringing awarness to the cruelty horses suffer... abuse, slaughter and alterations...


Slaughter in itself isn't abusive, so I'm not sure why you lumped it in there.

Plus, what do you mean by 'alterations'? Gelding is an 'alteration' but it's certainly not inhumane.


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## walkergal (Jun 23, 2010)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Hu?
> Can you explain this a little more?
> 
> What exactly did they do and why? (in other words, how does it make the horse child safe?)
> ...


the woman told us that one of his nerves was cut i believe it was his cyatic... it made it harder for him to move his leg out to kick... he has a limp... personally i found it hard to believe but i find it true


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## walkergal (Jun 23, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> Slaughter in itself isn't abusive, so I'm not sure why you lumped it in there.
> 
> Plus, what do you mean by 'alterations'? Gelding is an 'alteration' but it's certainly not inhumane.


I am just bringing awarness to any horse cruelty... abuse, abadonment and slaughter...


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

That simply makes no sense, cutting the sciatic nerve. 

If the sciatic nerve were cut it would impair his movement, making him _more_ dangerous to ride, not less.

Sciatica are important for both humans and equines. I can't see why anyone would think cutting the sciatic nerve is a great way to get a horse to stop kicking! :shock:

Dang, just _train_ it out of the beast, not butcher his nervous system!

As I told you in my first post, slaughter itself isn't abusive. Just because someone doesn't _like_ it and it offends their delicate sensibilities, doesn't make it abusive in and of itself.

If you're so concerned about slaughter being abusive, I think you need to be worried about _all_ the animals who are processed for food, not just horses.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

walkergal said:


> the woman told us that one of his nerves was cut i believe it was his cyatic... it made it harder for him to move his leg out to kick... he has a limp... personally i found it hard to believe but i find it true


The woman? Who is 'the woman'? Is 'the woman' the owner of the horse?

You are saying you find it be true that someone would make their horse permanently lame just so a kid can sit on it? (It is not like the kid can actually RIDE it because it is lame now.)


And I totally agree with SR about the slaughter thing.


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## walkergal (Jun 23, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> That simply makes no sense.
> 
> If the sciatic nerve were cut it would impair his movement, making him _more_ dangerous to ride, not less.
> 
> ...


Yes I know the nerve is very important this why it is considered abuse... the woman was crazy... I am doing a specific project here... I love all animals and I am aware that other animals are slaughtered as well... I am foucusing on the slaughter of horses that is pointless and people don't eat their meat... Personally to me slaughter can be abuse... Especially if someone abuses a horse so much that they kill it. I am going to be doing research... but I don't think it is right... but that is my personal belief... I do intend on giving people my opinions but instead I will be giving them facts and examples.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

walkergal said:


> I am foucusing on the slaughter of horses that is pointless and people don't eat their meat...


You might not eat the meat but other people, yes people, do eat the meat.

I do not like pork chops so I guess I should proclaim the slaughter of pigs is evil because people (obviously since I do not) do not eat the meat.

Head/desk


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Yes, people _do_ eat horse meat, so I don't see how you find the slaughter of them considered pointless. They're also rendered for pet food and to feed large zoo predators.

If you're going to try and present unbiased _facts_ as opposed to personal _opinions_, you can't approach slaughter as being inherently abusive.

Please don't let your ideals get in the way of real research. If you're not being honest with yourself you're only going to look for things that agree with your own position, which will give only a slanted view of the issues.

There are some abusive _practices_ that can and do happen, but slaughter itself isn't the culprit. Dead is dead and death is _never_ pretty, no matter whether it's from a bolt to the brain or by injected poison from a vet.

I do wish you luck with your project, but as I said, research _all_ the facts, not just the ones that support your personal opinions.


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## walkergal (Jun 23, 2010)

Alwaysbehind said:


> You might not eat the meat but other people, yes people, do eat the meat.
> 
> I do not like pork chops so I guess I should proclaim the slaughter of pigs is evil because people (obviously since I do not) do not eat the meat.
> 
> Head/desk


ah sorry... i meant people do eat their meat.. my mind was going to fast and I should have looked over what i was typing... I know people eat meat.. Sorry


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

walkergal said:


> ah sorry... i meant people do eat their meat.. my mind was going to fast and I should have looked over what i was typing... I know people eat meat.. Sorry


Then you make even less sense. 

You said:


walkergal said:


> I am foucusing on the slaughter of horses that is pointless and people don't eat their meat...


If you change that to people DO eat their mean how is slaughter pointless? 
The slaughter has a purpose. To feed people and animals. It allows the meat of the animal to get used for something worthwhile.


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## walkergal (Jun 23, 2010)

I also meant that I will NOT be giving out my opinion...
The horse with the cut nerve was at a rescue barn. This is where my idea started... Rescue barns. I am fine with people eating their meat... I am talking about the slaughter of horses just because people can... either they can not take care of them or they don't want to take of them. Instead of giving them to people who can and want to take care of them. THere is a whole other world of slaughter of horses than just eating their meat and zoo animal meat. Horses are not raised like cows, chickens, and pigs for human consumption. Although I appreciate your questioning where this is coming from, this is a legitament cause and there are rescue barns out there that DO need help.


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## walkergal (Jun 23, 2010)

MaggiStar said:


> i had a horse who was tied using a metal chain on all four legs that was too tight and sliced into ger pasterns leaving nasty welts and sores.
> She was fed once a week or when remembered about and watered when they went to see her.
> Despite being 2 and a half malnourished and hopping lame she was expected to gallop on hard tracks and roads and not come lame. Her feet were horrific having never seen a farrier. She needed her teeth done injections etc. she was riddled with worms,her hair was falling out she had been hit around the head causing her to be head shy.
> 
> After i got her she was on an extensive feed programme with 24-7 turn out proper farrier and vet care etc. She turned into a lovely little event pony.


I am so glad she is okay now. Thank you for sharing this story with me. I appreciate and we need more people like you. Thanks again.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

walkergal said:


> Instead of giving them to people who can and want to take care of them.


Please take off your rose colored glasses for a minute.

There are LOTS more horses than there are places that will take them. That is the problem. Rescues are full.

The horse with the cut nerve so a kid can ride him probably has another story completely associated with him. It is not uncommon for a simple straight forward history becomes a dramatic story of cruelty at a rescue.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

In most cases, slaughter IS the best option. They're not sent to slaughter "just because", they're sent for meat and because they usually would be better off dying in a slaughterhouse than in the backyard of someone who will starve it just to get rid of it.


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## walkergal (Jun 23, 2010)

equiniphile said:


> In most cases, slaughter IS the best option. They're not sent to slaughter "just because", they're sent for meat and because they usually would be better off dying in a slaughterhouse than in the backyard of someone who will starve it just to get rid of it.


BUt the owners could call someone of they can't take care of their horses anymore.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

walkergal said:


> BUt the owners could call someone of they can't take care of their horses anymore.


Enlighten me, who is this 'someone'?


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Walkergal, rescues are full to bursting right now, and I don't like that people have started thinking that rescues are _supposed_ to take everyone's cast offs. 

That's not for what they're intended; they're not a free retirement home for the horses people can no longer afford, they're for actual animals who need rescuing from abusive and neglectful situations.

I also don't like that every Tom, **** and Harriette are taking on horses willy nilly and calling themselves a 'rescue'. That's not a rescue, it's merely a hoarding situation for which they want the public to foot the bill.

The bad economy has affected everyone and there are all sorts of animals being abandoned left and right, not just horses. In fact, many rescues themselves have had to shut down because they can't afford to keep going.

There are just aren't enough _good_ homes for the glut of horses on the market. It's not rocket science. If people can't afford to feed themselves, they're not going to want to feed a large, expensive animal.

Would I rather see someone euth an animal at home than sell it at auction to a kill buyer? Yes, I would. But sometimes that $150.00 a person gets at auction may mean the difference between feeding or not feeding their family for a week. They may also not have the means to dispose of a very large, poisoned carcass without paying someone an exorbitant fee.

It's just not as cut and dried as some people want to think.


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## walkergal (Jun 23, 2010)

Thanks I know what I am talking about. This is what I want to go to school for. Thanks


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## walkergal (Jun 23, 2010)

Oh and they can sell the horses too


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

walkergal said:


> BUt the owners could call someone of they can't take care of their horses anymore.


Who? Who is this person they can call? Do you really think if there was another option, most people would send their horses to slaughter? Sure, some people might still, but they're no more fit to own horses than a slaughterhouse.

Some people might not have time to call people, even if there WAS someone willing to take them in. Bankrupcy, a death in the family, job changes, financial reasons.....all would give a family limited time to rehome a horse. If the horse is sick and medical bills can't be paid, slaughterhouses get another horse.

_There is no more room for all these horses._ There just isn't. Overproduction and an economy where the only people who own horses are the ones who like them or make use of them decrease the amount of places horses can live in.

You say the horses can be sold. If they're selling them to meat markets for $100 a head, how do you think they're going to get any real money out of them? Don't you think if most owners could sell a horse for $800 and guarenteed life, they would over $100 and guarenteed slaughter?

You also say you know what you're talking about because you *want* to go to school for this. *Want* to. What about all of the posters on here who have much more experience than a girl scout wanting no little precious ponies sold to the glue factory?

It's time to face reality: There is not always someone to call when things go wrong and your sick, diseased horse needs a new home.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

walkergal said:


> Thanks I know what I am talking about. This is what I want to go to school for. Thanks


What exactly is that, that you want to go to school for?



walkergal said:


> Oh and they can sell the horses too


Um no. Not true with many horses. Have you not read your local Craigslist? Heck, it is hard to give away a perfectly sound usable horse sometimes.
The market sucks. People can not just sell Dobbin anymore. 

​


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

walkergal said:


> Thanks I know what I am talking about.



Apparently you don't, since you seem to be completely unaware of the real life scenarios we've put forth for you.

Being that you've shown your inability or unwillingness to actually_ learn_ about the topic about which you want to write, I can only conclude that you're very young, naive, and think that everything can be solved with simplistic idealism.

If you're older than 13 it would shock me, because of your extreme naivete. If you're 13 or under, then I'm not going to continue to argue with a child who has no true life experience as of yet, and who has no concept of the hard choices we adults sometimes have to make.


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

Walkergal slaughter is something that is needed more of in the world right now. 
There are THOUSANDs of horses right now starving and in pain there are a couple of hundred rescue centres. These rescue centres are at the capacity where they can look after what they have properly and give them a good chance of life again. If they were to take in another load of horses then all of the current horses they have there life quality would then go down to compensate for more coming in. Would you not rather 20 well fed happy content horses in this world then 40 hungry miserable horses who were saved from slaughter?

A horse does not distinguish fear so when you take say a little 6month old foal from his dam to wean his fear is no more different then taking your 16year old horse to the slaughter house they have no concept of what is going on. The problem most people have with slaughter is that they cant distinguish there people feelings from animal feelings.

Also why is it awful for a horse to go to slaughter and the peson who sends them is cruel, mean , obviously didnt care but if a farmer loads 100 of his cows on to a truck for slaughter its ok? They all will be scared sure but people seem to give horses these humane feelings they have. 
Sure there are other options but are they going to pay?? A vet costs lots of money to put the horse down and dispose of the body whereas a slaughter pays. In recessionary times every cent counts. Sure you might be in an ok financial situation but try see it from a different point of view an entire family are living in poverty and the horse out the back is doing nothing because its old or sick. That horse will feed an entire family if it goes to slaughter but could possibly bankrupt them if they get him euthanised.

Animal charities ALWAYS pawn off the bad side of slaughter but how often are they showing you the bad side of recession?? If the horse is cpsting more then the family has then horse goes. There is not enough buyers out there to take in all these uneanted horses.


ALso slaughter removes the bad from the world. Horse blood lines are becoming comletely washed out with all the breeding that occured any horse that showed any kind of potential was bred to anything. These alright horses are nothing special and there are hundreds of them out there. Now you go to auction and you see actual well bred horses going for nothing then a whole load of BYB horses which are you going to go for?? The horse world needs to get rid of its muck and slaughter is the only way to do it. 

Also there are entire continients starving to death and we have thousands of unloved horses that are edible standing around.......Sorry but those people need feeding to.


Sure its not pretty or desirable Iv sold a few horses that way myself obviously i wouldnt sell my heart horses to slaughter but if circumstances arise that i cant get rid of them any other way and we need money well i can tell you my parents would have them gone. It is how it is and thats that. When you have seen enough badly built not good enough for anyhitng horses being bred you will understand why they need to removed from breeding and destroying the horse world eventually,


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## ForeverAulina (Jun 23, 2010)

A mare my mom bought was abused. The people that used to own her shot her with bebe guns and poked her with pitch forks. She would pace back and forth for hours at a time and now when she lays down you can lay with her. She is an angel.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Walkergal, do you actually think there are "people" who can buy horses to save them? Where do you live? The local papers, craigslist, classifieds, are full of horses to give away because someone can no longer feed them, the choice is their family or the horse. Its' sad, but when the choice comes to pay the rent and feed the family and feed the horse, then something has to go. Hay is expensive, alot of folks can no longer pay for feed. I will assume you have never had to deal with reality, watch someone in the family lose their job and be glad to work at McDonalds to keep their family in a home. Sure, they had a good job and keeping a horse was easy, now it isn't. So, they have to sell the horse for slaughter, people are no longer taking free horses, rescues are full up, retirement farms are full up. Where do you want these horses to go?
You need to face reality. Don't say "I know what I am talking about" because you obviously dont. I would rather see a horse euthanized or destroyed for slaughter instead of being turned loose on public land to fend for itself. Ever see that happen? A horse that is used to being fed twice daily now have to live in a desert with no grazing or water? Do you think that horse would rather starve to death or be put down quick and painless? People are taking horses onto public land and turning them loose to die a slow painful death because they are not wild and can't fend for themselves. The wolves, bears and other critters are now killing and eating them.
So, maybe you better really think about what you are saying. Unless you are a PETA, HSUS or other fanatic, then horse slaughter is not abuse, it is saving an animal from a slow lingering death by starvation or dehydration.Only the PETA, HSUS, etc folks make it sound horrific, of course their desire is nobody owns ANY animals at all, ever.


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## walkergal (Jun 23, 2010)

ForeverAulina said:


> A mare my mom bought was abused. The people that used to own her shot her with bebe guns and poked her with pitch forks. She would pace back and forth for hours at a time and now when she lays down you can lay with her. She is an angel.


oh that is horrible ... but that is so sweet that you can lay down with her, she must be very gentle and very loving


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## walkergal (Jun 23, 2010)

Okay, here is the thing, i apprectiate all you guys bringinf my attention to these these things of why horses are slaughtered. I have decided to leave this part out of my project. I have my own opinions and you have your opinons. I am aware of the recession that is going on, my family is being affectted by it. If you go back to before the recession horse slaughter was still happening. I think it is wrong when people jsut do it. I know you all are going to keept drilling it into my head. I am sixteen and I have read things and formed my opinion. THis is the last I am going to be talking about this. If any of you have stories of abuse of horses other than starving, i will be happy, well not really happy, but i would appreciate it if I could hear those stories instead of facts that I already do know. THank you so much.


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## Scoutrider (Jun 4, 2009)

walkergal said:


> *Okay, here is the thing, i apprectiate all you guys bringinf my attention to these these things of why horses are slaughtered. I have decided to leave this part out of my project.* I have my own opinions and you have your opinons. I am aware of the recession that is going on, my family is being affectted by it. If you go back to before the recession horse slaughter was still happening. I think it is wrong when people jsut do it. I know you all are going to keept drilling it into my head. I am sixteen and I have read things and formed my opinion. THis is the last I am going to be talking about this. If any of you have stories of abuse of horses other than starving, i will be happy, well not really happy, but i would appreciate it if I could hear those stories instead of facts that I already do know. THank you so much.


The scholar in me has to type. No solid project of any kind is going to knowingly omit an entire segment of the issue. Not solid research, not a convincing argument. It is fallacious to put together what I'm assuming to be a project meant to illuminate and persuade others against equine abuse/slaughter, etc., using only the cons. Good scholarship will present the pros as well, and refute the pros logically. It may be your opinion, and this I respect (although I do not agree), but it's a matter of sound research and scholarship to explore and engage the other side of the fence in your presentation. 

*Steps off soapbox*


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## walkergal (Jun 23, 2010)

Scoutrider said:


> The scholar in me has to type. No solid project of any kind is going to knowingly omit an entire segment of the issue. Not solid research, not a convincing argument. It is fallacious to put together what I'm assuming to be a project meant to illuminate and persuade others against equine abuse/slaughter, etc., using only the cons. Good scholarship will present the pros as well, and refute the pros logically. It may be your opinion, and this I respect (although I do not agree), but it's a matter of sound research and scholarship to explore and engage the other side of the fence in your presentation.
> 
> *Steps off soapbox*


I am not planning on just showing the cons... I just made this thread to get stories. I have other plans, as well. I understand that there is another side, and I think that is what people didn't understand. I really made this thread to get stories like I said before, I did not expect such a blow out here, at the time I really didn't think that it was neccessary to explain my WHOLE project, like I siad i didn't expect people to turn around and create an issue. But thank you for respecting my opinion, scout rider


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