# Critique Possible Buy!



## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Hey guys! I've looked at horse after horse....a Shire, two Quarter Horses, etc etc etc, and I found an amazing horse on Craigslist. Here's the blurb they wrote:



> Hi there! Are you looking for a well trained Dressage, Hunter-Jumper horse? Then, I have the perfect horse for you. Her name is Molly. She is 6yrs old, 16hh, beautiful bay with a stripe. She is a performer and looker for sure. She is athletic and truly enjoys jumping (2ft). She loves to work hard for you. She has recently started western riding. She trailers, cross-ties, stands for farrier, grooming, tacking and shots. She is registered, utd on shots and has a current negative coggins. She appraised for $7500 but I am selling her for $850 obo because of the economy. Her father is Storm Cat, a champion racetrack horse. Come on out and take a look at this beauty! Call or text & I can send more pictures. Lindsay


They showed some pics and then texted me some more. 


























































Iride Western but have been exercising my mom's boyfriend's polo Thoroughbreds (who ride English) and loved it, causing me to tack up my gelding English with my mom's old Pandur saddle and teach him. Ive started him over some 12inch jumps, but he just isn't cut out for it, ya know? Hes my baby I've been with him my whole life....he's 21 and I'm looking for a new challenge.

I called the lady with my mom, and she seemed verrrry honest. She said she was selling her because she needs to downsize for financial reasons from 4 horses to 1. Has extencive dressage training and some jumping, LOVES to jump. They're training her Western, too. Doesn't quite understand neck reining. Appraised at $7,500 but she is selling for $850 OBO (financial reasons). She just wants to find a good home for her.

I'm really excited. With the other horses I've looked at, I've wanted to believe it would work out but I knew it never would....with this one, I think it's really a possibility. My younger sister might be ready for my Paso Fino gelding soon....if he gets over his separation anxiety, which he will if I have another riding horse on the trails with him. 

Anyway....any critique from the pics they sent me? I'm going to see her tomorrow around 7 pm. Thanks guys! Oh--and she's registered

Equiniphile


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## dantexeventer (Jul 11, 2009)

I like the athleticism that Storm Cat throws but every Storm Cat baby/grandbaby I've ever ridden has been the same - they are NOT easy rides. He tends to throw a buck and an attitude, especially in mares. That said, they are usually quite athletic and with the right ride can do very well.


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## 1dog3cats17rodents (Dec 7, 2007)

I'd be nervous at that price. I wouldn't buy her without an extensive PPE and several rides. My first guess would be a major health or behavioral issue they are trying to hide


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I honestly believe they're honest....if everything works out tomorrow and I like the horse, I'm going to ask for a one-week trial (any drugs will have worn off by a week). Any critique of the way he moves?


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## Supermane (Sep 23, 2007)

The price thing does scare me. She looks nice enough, her movement looks pretty good... I just don't understand why all the pictures are western if most of her training is in english.

I would do a PPE, despite how honest the owner may seem. I've done one on all of my horses (with a drug test) regardless of how honest the seller seemed. The economy sucks, but that a very substantial price drop.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I'll try to have one arranged. My moms boyfriend is coming with us, and he's really knowledgable about buying horses etc


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

There's something funny about her hocks....they bulge at the back or something


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

equiniphile said:


> There's something funny about her hocks....they bulge at the back or something


 Good eye as I see it after you mentioned it.


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## Strange (Jan 11, 2009)

Yeah, the hocks bother me as well. So does her neck, but it just needs some muscling, I think. 

Never, ever forgo a PPE. Ever. Even if the seller is your own mother. I know so many people that thought they could trust the seller and it ended very badly for them. Drugs are the least of your worries. What if there was a previous injury that was serious, but you don't know about it? Some injuries can severely hamper a horse's future and the smallest things can cause reinjury.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I'll vet a vet check. I also know their vet (I asked them who their vet was) and am considering calling them to make sure the horse hasn't had any medical problems in the past.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

equiniphile said:


> I'll vet a vet check. I also know their vet (I asked them who their vet was) and am considering calling them to make sure the horse hasn't had any medical problems in the past.


Legally the vet can not disclose the history, patent -doctor confidentiality.


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## shesinthebarn (Aug 1, 2009)

She has at least one capped hock and a capped elbow. I'd use a lot of caution.


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## Supermane (Sep 23, 2007)

churumbeque said:


> Legally the vet can not disclose the history, patent -doctor confidentiality.


Yes, but you can ask the owner if they would be willing to release medically records to you. I've done this before and the owner was more than willing to have her vet send them to me.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Okay, I went to see her. She was fabulous.

We just groomed her in cross ties a little and discussed her history first. She's gorgeous her coat is SO sleek and I love her facial and front heel markings. The seller was very open with me about everything I asked. She said the only medical thing she's ever had was she kicked a stall wall too hard and got a temporary bump or something on her hind leg. The vet says it will go away within a few weeks, and that it doesn't interfere with her riding at all. She was raced until she was 3, when a trainer got ahold of her and trained her every dressage move she knows. Then she sold her to the seller who has her now. I found Molly's sweet spot within seconds (her neck) and she was loving my petting; her bottom lip was flappin, back leg bouncing haha. We picked her feet, she had no problems there. Then we loaded her in the trailer to go to the seller's friend's indoor arena 5 minutes away (it was pouring rain outside and we needed an indoor to ride). She loaded like a dream, was very safe, just walked calmly in. When we got to the arena, we tacked her up Western first. Then the owner lunged her at a walk, trot, and canter, and then over a small cross rail. She absolutely loved jumping. Even when she knocked it down from a bad setup and the owner tried to bring her in closer to avoid the fallen jump, she tried to jump it anyway. Silly horse :lol:. Then the owner mounted up and rode her around. She was using English rein techniques (direct contact instead of neck reining) because the horse had just been started English. She also told me she was a cribber, but with no windsucking, and that she chewed on her bit. One thing I noticed was that the owner kept her reins WAY too short with constant pressure on the bit, which might be why she was playing with the bit.....Then I got on her and walked and trotted her. Her trot was very uncomfortable to ride Western because of trying to sit it, so I ended up posting Western so I wouldn't be a sack of potatoes on her back:lol:. Then we changed tack and when I mounted English, you could completely tell this horse knew her stuff. She dropped her head immediately and her neck went into a really nice arch....I w/t/c her English. Her canter needs some work; I think mainly because the owner usually just walked and trotted her--she prefered the slower gaits, one of the reasons she's selling her. She's also selling because she wants the horse to be given an opportunity to fulfill his abilities, but doesn't want to do dressage or jumping with her. The owner's moving on to just trail riding, wants to get out of the competetive horse world.

I REALLY like this horse. Lindsay (the owner) said she thought I looked really good on Molly. We just clicked, you know? I'm going back to see her again tomorrow, and this time my mom's boyfriend is coming with us so he can see her as well. I really think she can take me far. Lindsay said she has another person wanting to come see her as well, so I'm praying we can buy her before they do


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Oh, and Lindsay just texted me some pics of Molly and I....I'll post them when my computer loads them


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## BarrelracingArabian (Mar 31, 2010)

awsome!!


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I know, I'm psyched!


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Here's the pics, do we look okay?


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## RoyalsRebel (Sep 24, 2009)

shesinthebarn said:


> She has at least one capped hock and a capped elbow. I'd use a lot of caution.


I 100% agree with the above. She has a capped hock and elbow I can see in the first set of pictures. I would get a thorough examination by a vet before you agree to anything and ask if you can get the horse's medical history from her vet. Definitely do a trial period. I can tell you've fallen in love with her already, so beware pressures i.e. like the current owner telling you there is someone else looking to buy her - that is an old trick but effective if you've already fallen in love with the look of her. Get a vet's advice -- it's worth the extra time and money!


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## shesinthebarn (Aug 1, 2009)

Did the owner point out the elbow to you? If she raced for a year or two, be very, very careful. Capped hocks go away sometimes, but are often permanent. The mention of wall kicking and cribbing also concern me. They don't have to suck wind to do damage, and it could deveplop into wind sucking any time. I don't meant to rain on your parade, but I don't want you to end up with a problem horse, as lovely as her personality is. Please, please get a thorough vet examination.


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## Bakkir (Mar 3, 2010)

I agree her hocks are a problem. I would not be looking at her for a jumping prospect. I once rode a little QH with the same problems and she was great on trails ut everytime her owner got on her and jumped/cantered around the arena she came up lame.

But she does look very sweet.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I have a vet check set up for when I go to see her today. The wall kicking was because she had a mare as a stall neighbor and hates other mares, which is good because our only mare not around the big horses. (she's a mini). We have a cribber, and he does the same thing--chewing, no windsucking. After 18 years with him we finally found out that, once we built higher stalls, he stopped cribbing altogether except for on his feed bin.

She looks great over the jumps. And if the vet says she could be injured with her confo for jumping, I'll just use her as a pleasure and maybe small show horse on the flat. I don't need a jumper, I mainly just need a pleasure horse that I can take to some smaller shows. For her to be able to jump would be okay, but it's not required by my standards for what I want to do with her.

I'll have the hocks and elbows checked out for sure.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Vet said she's okay and that the capped hock will go away within a few months, and that it shouldn't impair her movements. Sound everywhere else.

Today I walk and trotted her, then decided to try out her canter (yes, the one that needs a ton of work) and she tried to take me for a gallop. I stopped her within a few seconds and got her back down to a relaxed trot, but that canter is going to need some work. Then I tried jumping her. It was her first time being jumped under saddle, usually she's only lunged over jumps. I trotted her up to it, she took a giant leap, and tried to canter off, but I kept her at a trot and jumped her over it a few more times until I was confident she had learned not to run off after the jump. It was only about a foot and a half high, and she cleared it by a ton every time! 

While I was cooling her down, my mom, her boyfriend, and the owner discussed the price. We offered them $750 because I have to pay for the horse, and she said she couldn't go that low and that we should call her tomorrow with our decision. We've decided we're going to tell her we'll take her this week for $850, we'll trailer her with my mom's boyfriend's gooseneck to his barn and keep her there until we can rehome my Paint Clydesdale gelding.

The other thing is....she chews on her bit. CONSTANTLY. They used a full cheek snaffle with this kind of bridle:
http://i.ehow.com/images/a05/cv/te/english-bridles-vs_-western-bridles-800X800.jpg
They said that bridle helped hold her mouth shut so she didn't play with her bit as much. I have just a regular English bridle with a noseband and an eggbutt....I also have a 6 1/2 inch D-Ring, another eggbutt, and a loose ring snaffle. I'm not sure which is suitable....I'm hoping my new eggbutt cuz I just spent $20 on that thing for my other gelding lol.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Well, she's mine

I have to earn enough money to pay my mom back for her. We have one week to pick her up, and we have to wait until the ground hardens up so we can get my mom's boyfriend's trailer out of the grass to bring her there.

I'm really excited. She's perfect for me.....well-schooled enough such that I don't need to teach her any dressage or riding work except for her canter, which will provide a good project for me.


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## draftrider (Mar 31, 2010)

A flash noseband doesn't serve to close the mouth, it is just used to keep the bit properly positioned in the horses mouth.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Really? Okay, then I don't think it'll be a problem if I use a regular noseband, do you?


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## flamingauburnmustang (Dec 25, 2008)

She sounds really great, and I'm sure the owner was being honest about her. :grin:

Keep us posted about how she goes when she arrives, and don't forget to take lots of photo's! :wink:


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

I agree about the Storm Cat line - they can be extremely testy. 
The hocks look capped to me - I would want to know what caused it (i.e. is she a stall kicker?) - I don't believe the capped hocks themselves are a problem, so much as the underlying cause for them to be there in the first place.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

draftrider said:


> A flash noseband doesn't serve to close the mouth, it is just used to keep the bit properly positioned in the horses mouth.


When used properly, you are correct.... but oh-so-many people abuse the Flash and do, in fact, use it to keep the mouth closed.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Congrats on the new horse!! So long as the bit chewing doesn't cause a problem when you ride her, I wouldn't worry about it. If it continues or gets worse though, I would have her checked for pain and then maybe start trying some different bits that she would like better.


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

my friend's stallion is by storm cat and he is their main breeding stallion and all his foals are perfect


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Thanks guys. She gave me all the info on the bursitis hock thing and stuff so I'm going to be doing some research!


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Oh, and the capped knee occured in March of 2010 by kicking a stall wall where there was a mare. She doesn't like other mares in stalls next to her, but she's fine with them in the pasture. The vet, Dr. Arden Wiley, (she gave me his phone number) gave him Bute and Dexamentnasone in an IV injection to help with it in March. It should be gone soon, and if it isn't, we should call her and Dr. Wiley.

We're trailering her to Bali's (my mom's boyfriend) this saturday around noon, and staying the weekend down at his house so I can lunge and ride my perdy Molly.

Lindsay gave me the registration papers and had my mom sign a proof of purchase contract (we each got a copy of that). The registration papers say:

Registered with Jockey Club
bay filly
Molly's Cat (her name)
foaled march 10, 2003
by Tomorrow's Cat
Out of: Rachel Allyn
by Personal Flag
Marks: Irregular star connected thin stripe, widening at bottom of eye level, extending to right in center of face, narrowing above nostrils, ending between nostrils
medium cowlick below eye level
cowlick high at crest of neck on both sides; cowlick at throat latch
won a race on 4-22-07, net value winner 5100, type of race: Mcl 4000, distance 5F, FL track (idk if that means anything to anyone :])
Negative coggins on 3/5/07


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

My immediate reaction to the series of photos was why on earth are they riding her western? She absolutely moves like a hunter or sport horse, there's nothing about her that suggests a western horse to me. You have to wonder why they're not marketing her in a discipline more suited to her breeding and conformation. 

Second, equinophile does have a good eye; her left hock and possibly her right look capped. Mostly a blemish in a pleasure or trail horse, considered an unsoundness for certain performance horses, but the signifigance for you is that they are frequently caused by kicking in the stall. 

Third, if she was appraised at $7500., who appraised her and why? Appraised for insurance? Appraised as a performance prospect? Or appraised as a broodmare? 

So, she may be a nice horse, she may even be your perfect next horse, but, please - proceed with caution. There are several things about her description that give experienced horsepeople pause. 

Sometimes a cheap horse is the most expensive horse you'll ever own.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Yes, I know, I've been down the route of buying a cheap, horrid horse. But I've also bought spectacular horses for prices similar to what I'm paying for this one. The best horse I've ever owned, Arthur, I bought for only $900 18 years ago. He is still to this day an incredible 22, 23.....yr old, somewhere around there. Best, calmest but spunky, gelding I've ever owned.

Like I said, Molly does not like mares in stalls next to hers. I watched her in the pasture with the same mare she kicked at while they were stalled, and they were grazing together, showing NO sign of dislike. And I don't have any mares except for my mini, who we're selling as a breeding pair with my stally.


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