# barn owner holding my horses hostage



## Roperchick

always get it in writing. always. always. always.
that way shady people like this douche cant try and give you trouble.
please tell me youre moving your horses to a new barn ASAP??

hope it all works out

EDIT; did you buy the horses from him?


----------



## Speed Racer

Do you have a bill of sale for the horse? If so, and nothing else is in writing, then legally he can't stop you from taking her.


----------



## katbalu

It doesnt sound like he's trying to 'take her away'. It just sounds as if he wants the money he thinks hes owed. Sounds like a misunderstanding. Why would he offer to keep your horses for free? Perhaps you guys had different ideas of the deal? And dont jump my case  im just trying to understand.
did she previously belong to him?

reading that again, it seems entirely messed up. why wouldnt he speak to you before sending a letter. I wish you luck in getting your horses!


----------



## cakemom

If you have receipts and he doesn't the law is on your side.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Palomine

Do you have a truck and trailer, you need to go get your horses now. He didn't send you any letter, or he would have some sort of proof of it being sent. And would also have that it had not been received by you with your signature.

Might search and see if he has habit of doing this too.

But you will probably have to get a lawyer and fight this, if he won't allow you to leave with horses, and physically stops you.

You can always counter with since you were supplying feed, the board was free to best of your knowledge, and was never discussed.


----------



## katbalu

Just get the 5-0, and let us know how it goes (please)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Roperchick

plus if he doesnt have an extra copy (common sence for a legitimate business letter) and this "letter" never shows up theres nothing for him to do. just make sure your horses are in a safe secure place. and make sure all YOUR paperwork is in order


----------



## Cowgirls Boots

Subbing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

I was around him for a while before purchasing a horse from him, and when I finally did purchase her he never asked me for anything for keeping her there other than to purchase feed and hay (which I have my receipts for). In return for me appreciating him doing that I would help around the barn like cleaning the feed room and feed his 11 horses when he couldn't or was out of town. We never had an issue until he came on hard financial times and rather than asking me to start paying him monthly for board he just up and did this. The only thing we ever had in writing was my receipt from buying her and things worked out fine. It almost seems like he is doing this because he is broke and he thinks he can scare tactic me into thinking I owe him all of this money. 

I am going to go there tonight and try to get them from him, but I know he's going to try to keep holding them hostage for something he thinks I owe him that he never even brought up until today. An officer told me they will go there with me and unless he can produce a written contract with my signature showing I agreed to pay him anything then he can't hold them. The only problem will be if I can't catch him while he's at home!!!!!


----------



## bird3220

katbalu said:


> It doesnt sound like he's trying to 'take her away'. It just sounds as if he wants the money he thinks hes owed. Sounds like a misunderstanding. Why would he offer to keep your horses for free? Perhaps you guys had different ideas of the deal? And dont jump my case  im just trying to understand.
> did she previously belong to him?
> 
> reading that again, it seems entirely messed up. why wouldnt he speak to you before sending a letter. I wish you luck in getting your horses!


 
I helped him out at his barn for about a year and had expressed interest in my mare. One day he told me he'd sell her to me for a price I thought was fair so I bought her. The verbal agreement was that he was okay with me keeping her there as long as I paid for her feed/hay, which I have done. I helped him out around the barn so he never asked for anything, until today when he sprung all this on me about owing him money. Honestly I think it's because he's struggling to feed his 11 horses and thinks he can take advantage of me to get more money.


----------



## bird3220

oh and yes i have a truck and trailer and will be moving them tonight. hopefully when the local PD shows up with me he will realize he can't fight a cop and just give them to me.


----------



## Northernstar

Very wise move on your part! Continue to stay strong and focused - The very best of luck tonight!!!!


----------



## Asama

Subbing

Some people! 

But you should always get any agreement in writing. Also, I agree with a few of the other posters... He never sent that letter!


----------



## waresbear

What a guy! I can understand him thinking over the situation and wanting board, but the proper thing to have done was tell you in person. He should have said to you, "On such & such date, I will be charging you X of amounts of $$$ for board." Then he could have handed you the letter stating that. From that date on, you can either pay him board or move your horses. He is an idiot & did it all wrong. Don't hang out with people like that.


----------



## equiniphile

If you have the receipt from the sale and receipts from feed/hay purchases, he can't legally keep your horses from you, especially if you had no written agreement on board. Smart move to have the police accompany you to pick the horses up.


----------



## LikeIke17

Wow  people these days. That is ridiculous. I hope you can get your horses out. I'll be looking for this thread, I want to know how it all goes! Good luck!

(But now you know... always in writing! ;P)


----------



## bird3220

I wish I had it in writing, but hopefully I'll be able to get them away from there today with the help of a cop. I think it's absolutely ridiculous for him to say he sent a letter telling me I would have to pay $465 a month for my mare and colt to stand in a dirt field..... Ludicrous!!!! For that I could have them at an awesome facility being treated like royalty..... Heading over there in about an hour when I know he will be home from work with the gate keys, so his wife can't lie again and say she doesn't have hers!!! thanks everyone for ur replies!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Sharpie

I hope it goes well and you get your horses safely.


----------



## bird3220

Thanks
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

Honestly if he would have told me he wanted some money for board I would have paid something and we could have come to an agreement, but if he would have said $15 a day I would have laughed in his face and moved my horses that very day....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## waresbear

^^^^Exactly, the guy is an idiot. I would move my horses just on that basis alone.


----------



## bird3220

Today's the first day I heard about $15 a day and I can guarantee I won't be leaving them there at that rate. But also I consider today to be the first day he verbally stated he needs boarding fees
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

Just did a secret vehicle drive by and he's home. Waiting on the cop to meet me now to see what to do from here. Pray for me please cuz I'm gonna lose my mind if something goes wrong
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## equiniphile

Prayers for you, hoping you can retrieve your horses without any unecessary drama.


----------



## bird3220

Hopefully this police man will provide some assistance
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## mysticalhorse

Praying for you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CountryPosh

Hope everything works out. Keep us posted.


----------



## Poco1220

On pins and needles here as I've been through nearly the exact same position! Except I had my horse loaded before the BO noticed and then they used their vehicles to block me in! The cops came by and made them move but it was still very nerve wracking! Update us ASAP!


----------



## Saddlebag

Isn't it strange what greed does to people. If he's sent a certified letter, you'd have had shortly after he'd sent it. For the cost of certifying, the mail is guaranteed to get to it's destination. I hope the cop doesn't cop out on you.


----------



## paintsrule

Been in this exact same situation before, accused of needing to pay ridiculous, groundless expenses, tried to move my horse, it required two police officers to do so. It was very, very nerve wracking and if anything would have prevented me from taking my horse i would have lost it too. I know what you're going through, and im praying things work out.


----------



## GhostwindAppaloosa

15.00 a day is not an unreasonable amount. thats 450 a month and she has two horses there. a mare and colt. 

HOWEVER if she is providing all the feed than it is. We only know what the OP has told us and I'd HOPE this man wasnt shady but perhaps the horses were eating more than she was providing etc. 

that being said. Most laws WILL allow him to legally have a lien on the horse until payment for a reasonable amount for board is supplied. Even WITHOUT a boarding contract. Interested to see the outcome


----------



## equiniphile

GhostwindAppaloosa said:


> 15.00 a day is not an unreasonable amount. thats 450 a month and she has two horses there. a mare and colt.
> 
> HOWEVER if she is providing all the feed than it is. We only know what the OP has told us and I'd HOPE this man wasnt shady but perhaps the horses were eating more than she was providing etc.
> 
> that being said. Most laws WILL allow him to legally have a lien on the horse until payment for a reasonable amount for board is supplied. Even WITHOUT a boarding contract. Interested to see the outcome


 $450 is a lot for pasture board, IMO, at least in my area.


----------



## GhostwindAppaloosa

equiniphile said:


> $450 is a lot for pasture board, IMO, at least in my area.


 
I missed that it was pasture board. sorry. Ive seen 350-400 for pasture board before in my area and we live in a cheaper board area. Plus remember there are two horses there.


----------



## Jewelsb

Interested in the outcome I hope you got your horses!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## equiniphile

OP, how'd it go?


----------



## wyominggrandma

A certified letter has to be signed for by the receiveing person.. They can't just drop it at your house or PO Box, it has to be signed for. He is lying through his teeth.
Did you get your horses moved?


----------



## Oldhorselady

Hope everything is ok!!!


----------



## ChristineNJ

Hope you got your horses!!


----------



## Calming Melody

subbing


----------



## bird3220

Nothing went the way I hoped. Cop got there, heard his side, which was full of lies, and basically told me it was a civil situation and I'd have to pay him or take him to court.... Here's where it gets even more fun..... I left and went and got the moment hey previously stated would get me both of my horses. Called the cop to meet me back over there, and when I get there all he brings is my mare to the trailer. At this point he changes his story and says the $360 for $15 a day since May 27th was only for her, not my 3 month old colt who depends on her to live. I wanted to claw his eyes out. Not being certain that my mare would be there today or be taken care of I finally gave him the money for her and now I have to go back to the police station today and see what I can do to save my colts life. 

Last night broke my heart, and hearing my mare calling for him all night made it worse. I pray karma gives this sorry excuse of a man exactly what he deserves!!!! Regardless I am going to get my colt today. I refuse to let him keep him. Im in shock and the sorry cop was horrible
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Prinella

Wow. My thoughts are with you! I hope it all works out!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Skyseternalangel

What the heck.....


----------



## Jewelsb

That's just sad. I really hope your colt is still there today and that you can get him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cacowgirl

I do hope you can get your colt & that he will be allright. A forced weaning at this age is not a good thing, especially for the foal-he will probably feel abandoned.


----------



## muumi

That is so awful, I am so sorry.
I don't know how I could stay sane in such a situation.
And I don't understand how he could motivate in any way keeping the foal away from its mother.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Clayton Taffy

You actually took the mare and left the colt? What were you thinking?
Do you think that this man is going to take care of the baby while it is hysterical for it's mother? Has the colt been properly prepared for weaning?

Oh my, I belive you have made a bad situation much worse.
I hope all goes well for you, good luck.


----------



## bird3220

I am going to get my colt today. He is eating grain and hay and drinkin water, so I believe he will be ok for today, but it makes me sick that someone can just make up a date, tell you you owe them an insane amount of money without having ever notified you and I can't do anything about it. 

I took my mare because after his actions I a) don't believe she would be there when I went back, or b) would be alive when I went back. My colt has a round bale he can eat on today and other mares to keep him safe. Also one of the mares has a filly on her, and I think she will let him nurse too. Honestly if I knew my mare would be safe there I wouldn't have taken her away from my colt, but this situation has really broken me about trusting anyone, and I couldn't take that chance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

He will take care of my colt Bc he thinks he's gonna get to keep him and will be able to sell him later on. But after 7:00 tonight he won't have to worry about it anymore
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Skyseternalangel

I really hope this works out... the poor pair of them  They must be under so much stress now.


----------



## muumi

Wait! Is this idiot of a man claiming ownership of the foal? On what grounds?
Can you not go to the police (again I know!) and accuse him of theft of the colt?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Speed Racer

The owner of the mare is the owner of the foal, unless an otherwise agreement has been made.

The police are right though, this is a civil matter. Livestock are considered property.


----------



## mls

It is a civil matter. I really wondered when you said an officer called to talk to the BO.

As far a your colt dying from "forced weaning" - no. Many breeding operations wean at three months.

Once again folks - contracts!


----------



## chandra1313

I would take him to civil court. This can also work for you as well. You have the receipts you purchased him in Febuary he says board was to start in May, I'm pretty sure that without the certified letter to back up his story the judge would have to wonder why did the board start in May and not Febuary and since he doesn't have a signed contract with you either I don't see how he could have much of a leg to stand on. If you take him to small claims court you don't need a lawyer just have to pay the filing fee. It would be worth it just to make him stand in court and deal with this. Heck apply and take him to Judge Judy she would look at that and say if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it must be a duck lol Hang in there girl times are tough and it makes fools out of a lot of people in the world.


----------



## bird3220

I am going to the post office this morning to see if they have the certified letter he swears up and down he sent last week, and I'm praying if they do it states that the money he said I owed him included both horses, otherwise my only other option is pay him double for my own colt that I own outright or take him to court. The stupid cop never asked for anyone's ID's to verify anything, refused to look at my receipt stating that I own her, and the guy at the barn even said I own her and the colt was born after I bought her. 

My main priority right now is to get my colt back to my mare. She is going crazy and it kills me to put her through so much stress. I don't know how my colt is because I haven't been able to get near him, but I know that regardless of what I have to do he will be back with his momma tonight. I just hate that I possibly have to pay over $700 to get my own horses back for a "debt" I never knew anything about until yesterday. This sick man swore up and down to the cop he told me about paying him and all these other lies.

Why on God's green earth would anyone pay $15 a day ($465) a month PER HORSE to keep their horse in a dirt pen with other mares????? Honestly, this is the exact reason people take the law into their own hands. Trying to do things the "right" way and I end up getting screwed. And I know there are people who probably think I'm leaving some parts out, but I swear on everything I love that this is exactly how things happened and he never said one word about me paying him until yesterday.


----------



## katbalu

You need to document everything. EVERYTHING. Right it down. Times, dates, officer names, the certified letter deal. Did I say everything?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

muumi said:


> That is so awful, I am so sorry.
> I don't know how I could stay sane in such a situation.
> And I don't understand how he could motivate in any way keeping the foal away from its mother.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He apparently is just out for the money, and the bad thing is I love my horses more than anything, and there's nothing I won't do to get them back. I hate that I possibly have to pay this man another dime, but I refuse to let him have my baby. Not gonna happen. 

I am not sane at all. I don't think I slept more than 30 minutes last night because all I could do was lay there and contemplate on what I would have to do today to get him back. I have never been so angry before in my life, and honestly I hope this man gets what's coming to him. I am an honest person and if he would have asked me for board I would have given it to him in a heartbeat, but some people care more about $$$ than being decent human beings.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

$15*30 days = $450, just so you know OP.

Best of luck though


----------



## mls

bird3220 said:


> The stupid cop never asked for anyone's ID's to verify anything, refused to look at my receipt stating that I own her, and the guy at the barn even said I own her and the colt was born after I bought her.


Stupid cop?

This is a civil matter. The officer was there at your request. There is NOTHING he can do. How would verifying ID's do anything?

Law enforcement acts to uphold the law. There is no law in he said/she said. That is for a judge to decide.


----------



## bird3220

katbalu said:


> You need to document everything. EVERYTHING. Right it down. Times, dates, officer names, the certified letter deal. Did I say everything?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am going back to the police station today to talk to a supervising officer and see what I can do about the certified letter and all of that. I am going to get a copy of the report from yesterday and I have the officers names and everything. I swear I wanted to claw his eyes out last night when he walked my mare to the road and told me the money was only for her and it would be double if I wanted my colt. My bf had to grab me and hold me back. Needless to say, it took me a good 30 more minutes to even convince him to bring my mare back to me. 

Oh and the kicker to all of this is when my bf handed the cop the money to give to the guy the cop was like "Ugh, do you want me to count it for you?" I wanted to slap him. Seriously, all of this and your choosing his side, when I have receipts and everything showing I have been taking care of her and that she is mine. I have never felt so helpless before. What good are cops if they help crooks be more crooked???


----------



## bird3220

mls said:


> Stupid cop?
> 
> This is a civil matter. The officer was there at your request. There is NOTHING he can do. How would verifying ID's do anything?
> 
> Law enforcement acts to uphold the law. There is no law in he said/she said. That is for a judge to decide.


 
He said she said I understand, but he could provide absolutely ZERO evidence showing he ever told me about paying him, and I have my papers showing I own her and my colt! Yet the STUPID COP, chose to believe his WORDS over my DOCUMENTED proof!!!!!


----------



## bird3220

Skyseternalangel said:


> $15*30 days = $450, just so you know OP.
> 
> Best of luck though


 
 I know, but May had 31 days and apparently it started in May, that's why I said $465.


----------



## chandra1313

Take him to court and get your money back.


----------



## muumi

I almost want to bet you won't find a certified letter at the post office.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

I am going to see what I can do, but my best friend is a paralegal and she told me that me paying him is basically me conceeding and saying he is right


----------



## Speed Racer

bird3220 said:


> My main priority right now is to get my colt back to my mare. She is going crazy and it kills me to put her through so much stress.


No matter when you wean him, she's going to be stressed unless she self-weans. Very few mares will self-wean though, unless they have another foal on the way.

At 3 months old he CAN be weaned, and many are. What they need at that age is socialization to learn how to be a functioning member of herd society, and if he's out with other horses, especially mares, he's getting it.

I'm sorry you're going through this, but a foal can be weaned at 3 months and suffer no ill effects.


----------



## bird3220

muumi said:


> I almost want to bet you won't find a certified letter at the post office.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
I am praying I do, because that letter supposedly states that the $15 a day included BOTH horses. Worse case scenario I have to pay this evil man $375 today for my colts RANSOM


----------



## katbalu

Now wait a minute. I know you're angry, but it might not matter that you *own* her if you owe that guy money ( he said/ she said). The cop is doing his job. He's not *helping out criminals* 
Just because he didn't ID you doesn't make him an idiot. Go to court
It's property. If I have things in a storage unit, they are mine. But if those people think i owe them money, I can't have my stuff. They can take my stuff and sell it to make up for their Loss for what I haven't paid them. So if horses are property, wouldn't it be the same? See why the cop can't just wave his almighty wand and fix it?

ALSO, I'm sorry you are going through this. I understand 100% why you would be angry. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

Speed Racer said:


> No matter when you wean him, she's going to be stressed unless she self-weans. Very few mares will self-wean though, unless they have another foal on the way.
> 
> At 3 months old he CAN be weaned, and many are. What they need at that age is socialization to learn how to be a functioning member of herd society, and if he's out with other horses, especially mares, he's getting it.
> 
> I'm sorry you're going through this, but a foal can be weaned at 3 months and suffer no ill effects.


 
He's very independent so I know he will be fine. I really believe that or I never would have taken her away from him last night.


----------



## bird3220

I know what you are saying about the cop doing his job, but you just had to be there to witness how the cop treated us. Regardless I will get my colt back today no matter what it takes.


----------



## muumi

Yes, paying him would be seen as an admission of your guilt by the law, but I don't know what else you could have done/could do, if you felt your horses' safety might be at stake.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## chandra1313

katbalu said:


> Now wait a minute. I know you're angry, but it might not matter that you *own* her if you owe that guy money ( he said/ she said). The cop is doing his job. He's not *helping out criminals*
> Just because he didn't ID you doesn't make him an idiot. Go to court
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
I know that I would consider him a idiot, he could have told the guy she has the receipts for ownership you need to take her to court for the boarding which is seperate to the ownership. The guy should have gone and legally filed a lien upon her horses, that would show honesty. This guy doesn't have to do anything he is basically just holding her horses hostage and being rewarded for it. 

Take this man to court, don't let him push you around. Very annoyed ;-) please let us know how this goes.


----------



## bird3220

Thanks muumi, and you're right. There's nothing I won't do to take care of them and even if it means I pay him for something I don't owe him he can not have my horses
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

I am going to explore my legal options once my colt is in my possession
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

The cop stated he had never dealt with a case like this before and "why don't you just pay the man"!!!! He wasn't trying to help me he just didn't want to deal with it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## churumbeque

bird3220 said:


> I am going to see what I can do, but my best friend is a paralegal and she told me that me paying him is basically me conceeding and saying he is right


 I don't agree with that. You are paying him not to rack up a larger bill with board and being able to take your horse with out a scene. You would pay him and then take him to small claims court or just stop payment on the check if he will take a check.


----------



## bird3220

Once my colt is safely in my possession I am going to see what I can do from there
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## katbalu

It's hard to offer advice on this. It is the Internet, after all. The only advice I have - as previously stated- document everything.


----------



## LetAGrlShowU

Have you by any chance called another officer out on site? Some have more sense than others :X


----------



## Speed Racer

Where's Allison? She's a law enforcement officer, and should be able to tell you what an officer CAN and CAN'T do in a situation like this.

They have_ no _authority to make anyone do anything. They're only there to make sure nobody gets assaulted. 

Cops are not a judge and jury; they should not be expected to make decisions based in favor of either party. Good heavens people they're_ peace_ officers, not strong armed henchmen!


----------



## bird3220

A second officer came when I went back to pay him and when I told them to just get my mare and I would pay him he told me to shut up and wait a minute. I am going to ask to speak to a supervisor today
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

But he can't hold my property without proof of why
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Speed Racer

bird3220 said:


> A second officer came when I went back to pay him and when I told them to just get my mare and I would pay him he told me to shut up and wait a minute. I am going to ask to speak to a supervisor today_._


Who told you to shut up, the officer? If you were ranting, raving, and having a general fit, I'd tell you to be quiet too. 

What do you think speaking to an officer's superior is going to do for you? Honestly?


----------



## bird3220

I asked him to just get my mare and I would pay him. That is all I said. I am going to speak to a supervisor about going back to get my cot should the post office miraculously find this letter. 

No matter what happens though I am going to do what I need to get my colt today. I never imagined all this would happen but I learned my lesson.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## mls

bird3220 said:


> He said she said I understand, but he could provide absolutely ZERO evidence showing he ever told me about paying him, and I have my papers showing I own her and my colt! Yet the *STUPID COP,* chose to believe his WORDS over my DOCUMENTED proof!!!!!


This is how you treat the law?

Sad.

CIVIL matter. Take it to court. Next time have a contract in place.


----------



## bird3220

No I respect the law officers who do the right thing!!! I don't respect the ones who are lazy and just don't want to fill out paperwork.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HowClever

Man, there is a lot of assumptions and allegations flying around on the internet tonight. 

Good luck getting your colt back. You may want to tone down your ranting and raving about how "stupid" the cops are.


----------



## bird3220

I didn't say the cops I said the cop (the one who was there last night). I grew up with a parent in law enforcement. I respect officers of the law. This man last night was nothing of the sort.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## muumi

I am totally with the OP on this one. That particular cop is in the wrong, IMO.
There doesn't appear to be any proof that the OP owes the BO any money (ATM), but there is definitive proof that the horses are the OP's property.
So I don't get why the BO gets to hang on to property that isn't his, for money he can't prove he's owed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

The cop that came to the house is a different cop than the one who took the original report at the police station who told me the man could not hold my horses hostage without showing proof I owed him money!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## muumi

what the first cop said makes sense to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ink

I can't imagine why they would let him hold your horses without proof of you owing him money! Sure OK if it's a civil matter he can take you to court, but he shouldn't be able to hold your property without proof. I think it's pretty scary that the officer didn't back you up, especially given what they had told you earlier at the police station. I'm no expert on law, but I would think the burden of proof should lie on the person claiming they're owed money. 

I hope you get your baby back tonight without a fuss


----------



## bird3220

UPDATE... for anyone thinks the barn owner is legitimately being honest..... After spending an hour at the post office this morning looking for the certified letter that was never delivered to me the clerk finally found it..... For the skeptics and critics, I ask you why did I honestly never receive a notice of a certified letter.... Hmmm, well that's because they put the numbers of my address and street name of their address on the envelope. I never would have received notice and I never would have known anything.

Why again do I say STUPID COP you ask... That would be because the STUPID COP held a copy of that same letter in his hand last night that they would not let me read stating that the money owed included my mare & my COLT! So again I say I will be going to file a complaint and talking to a supervisor and calling the constables office to go retrieve my colt that I paid for in full last night.


----------



## Jewelsb

Oh good! So happy you found that letter stating that the money owed is for both! =]
Your right in stating the cop was stupid!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## muumi

I can't believe what people think they can get away with sometimes...
Makes me so mad for your sake!
I hope everything goes well this time... And I'm praying for your colt to be back with you soon!
But I second what was said before about writing everything down, and keeping records of everything...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## muumi

And its unbelievable what you, your mare, and esp your colt had to go through, because that second cop didn't go through everything properly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LetAGrlShowU

bird, don't only call, show up, speak to someone higher in the ranks and explain (very calmly) about: 

1.your verbal agreement
2.how he broad sided you with this whole $15/day thing for BOTH horses
3. That you spoke to an officer who told you your rights
4. That when you came WITH the money to avoid your mare/foals safety that he changed his story to $15/day per horse
5. That he intentionally lied to the officers as well as put the wrong info on a certified letter knowing it would never reach you

You need to look like a saint. If you look in any way like you are trying to get free board they will not give you the time of day.

If the go with the "its civil, take him to court" Then say fine, i am paying him to take my horses today. I will suit him in court for the costs I have put out that were illegally obtained, but I want my possesions back today as I fear for their safety.


----------



## Speed Racer

I've asked Allison to come on this thread and address all of you who are going on and on about how STUPID cops are, and what they should and shouldn't have done, even though_ none_ of you are police officers and have* no clue* what authority they do or don't have in civil matters. :-x


----------



## bird3220

Jewelsb said:


> Oh good! So happy you found that letter stating that the money owed is for both! =]
> Your right in stating the cop was stupid!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would feel some relief that I have the letter in my possession, HOWEVER the incompetent cop (who everyone keeps telling me to not call stupid) held a copy of this exact same letter in his hand and read it last night that clearly states "Therefore, as of May 27, 2012 I will be charging you a fee of $15.00 a day ($7.50 for Cheyenne and $7.50 for stud colt)." and still allowed this man to pursuade him that his words were more correct than DOCUMENTED proof. So, honestly right now, I half way expect to go to the police station today and them tell me there's nothing they can do. Praying however that I show them this letter and they have proof of me paying him the money and they will return to the property with me to retrieve the colt I paid his RANSOM for!!!


----------



## bird3220

Speed Racer said:


> I've asked Allison to come on this thread and address all of you who are going on and on about how STUPID cops are, and what they should and shouldn't have done, even though_ none_ of you are police officers and have* no clue* what authority they do or don't have in civil matters. :-x


He held a copy of the certified letter in his hand that clearly states the $15/day includes both of my horses, but decided to forget those documented facts about an hour later when i returned with the money to retrieve my horses. I now have the actual letter in my possession and I stand by my statement that this cop I dealt with last night is stupid. And I repeat again that I did not say any other cops are stupid, I only referred to the ones I dealt with last night who sided with the lying barn owner and refused to let me retrieve what I had paid for


----------



## katbalu

I would definatly go to the police station and speak with them about what happened, your rights, his rights, the fact that the letter never reached you, the schism between the views of the first and second officer, etc. 
I would defiantly like to know how this ends up. I do hope you get your colt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HowClever

You are not getting it. CIVIL MATTER! No matter what documentation either one of you has it is a property dispute. Not something a police officer has any say over resolving.


----------



## Speed Racer

What you don't seem to understand is that the police officer HAD NO AUTHORITY to 'make' this person give you your property. What about that don't you understand? 

They are NOT collection agencies. They don't have the ability _or_ authority to make sure you get what you came for. The ONLY thing they can do is protect and observe.

It's a CIVIL MATTER, which needs to be resolved in a court of law. The officer was doing the only thing he could, and for that he gets vilified by a bunch of people who have *no* clue how the law works. Ridiculous!


----------



## bird3220

LetAGrlShowU said:


> bird, don't only call, show up, speak to someone higher in the ranks and explain (very calmly) about:
> 
> 1.your verbal agreement
> 2.how he broad sided you with this whole $15/day thing for BOTH horses
> 3. That you spoke to an officer who told you your rights
> 4. That when you came WITH the money to avoid your mare/foals safety that he changed his story to $15/day per horse
> 5. That he intentionally lied to the officers as well as put the wrong info on a certified letter knowing it would never reach you
> 
> You need to look like a saint. If you look in any way like you are trying to get free board they will not give you the time of day.
> 
> If the go with the "its civil, take him to court" Then say fine, i am paying him to take my horses today. I will suit him in court for the costs I have put out that were illegally obtained, but I want my possesions back today as I fear for their safety.


 
I conceeded and decided to pay him last night. Then his story changed and the officer decided to side with him and refuse to let me retrieve my nursing colt. I spent an hour at the post office this morning trying to get the letter and low and behold when they mailed it out they put the address wrong on the email (which I would have received 7 days earlier, conveniently costing me an additional $105 in board). I have absolutely no problems with paying to board my horses, none whatsoever, but until yesterday he never stated anything about me paying him $15. That is all in the past now, I have paid him the money he said I owed him as of yesterday, my new problem is when I take this letter to the police station today are they going to tell me that retrieving the colt I paid him for last night is a civil matter and he has the right to hold him from me.


----------



## bird3220

Speed Racer said:


> What you don't seem to understand is that the police officer HAD NO AUTHORITY to 'make' this person give you your property. What about that don't you understand?
> 
> They are NOT collection agencies. They don't have the ability _or_ authority to make sure you get what you came for. The ONLY thing they can do is protect and observe.
> 
> Good Lord people, the cops are bunch of stupid *******s unless they're doing something _you_ want?


The barn owner clearly stated if I paid him he would release my horses. When I went to get the money and came back his story changed saying I owed him double the original amount. The cop held the piece of paper in his hand stating that if I paid him his money he would release my mare and my colt, yet he chose to allow the man to hold my colt anyways. The cop had the authority to tell the man to give me my belongings once he was paid in full, but he didn't. That is where my issue is with the officer last night.


----------



## TimberRidgeRanch

bird3220 said:


> The cop stated he had never dealt with a case like this before and "why don't you just pay the man"!!!! He wasn't trying to help me he just didn't want to deal with it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Most times when a cop hasnt delt with such a situation they say its a civil matter when in fact its not. When you purchased her and have legal sales receipt with date ,You own her. Now I dont know about your state but here a barn owner cannot just take possesion of a horse without a written certified demand of money owed. They have to have proof you owe any money including a boarding contract. if there is no contract between the two of you You can remove the hore from the property. Plus the board is only for the mare not the colt he dont own the colt.
You need to contact the animal control in your state and it wouldnt hurt to contact a lawyer either. if your telling us the facts and what you said has happen You just may have a good law suit for theft of horse which in TX I know is pretty serious.
For all they know he could of falsly sold you the horse and refuse to hand her over. He cant prove you owe board. You could just say you been trying to get your mare but he has been making excuse after excuse why you cant take her and now he is claiming board. If he has no contract hes not going to look good to the state either. You have a sales receipt what does he have? A stolen colt out of the mare you own. any court is going to look at this pretty much in your favor you have receipts for feed hay etc etc he has nothing. Take him to court sue his dumb *** and also for court costs.
But also like I said contact your local animal control they know more about the situation then a dumb retarded cop does.

TRR


----------



## Speed Racer

No, he could SUGGEST the man give you your property, but he had no authority to MAKE him.


----------



## bird3220

I do understand everything everyone is saying. In the yard the barn owner told the cop about the letter and stated all he wanted was me to pay him what the letter stated and he would release my horses. I paid him his money but the cop allowed him to retain half of my possession.


----------



## GhostwindAppaloosa

muumi said:


> I am totally with the OP on this one. That particular cop is in the wrong, IMO.
> There doesn't appear to be any proof that the OP owes the BO any money (ATM), but there is definitive proof that the horses are the OP's property.
> So I don't get why the BO gets to hang on to property that isn't his, for money he can't prove he's owed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
thats exactly WHY he CAN hold onto the property. the property (horses) are on his land. Posession is 9/10 of the law. The law knows that most people do not feed and water others for free. You are allowed to charge a reasonable amount for board in your area and if it is ONE DAY LATE you can put a lien on the horse until said balance is paid. 

Liens for Care of Horses


----------



## Speed Racer

No, the cop didn't 'allow' him to keep the animals any more than he could 'make' him give them to you.

Are you an Aussie transplant? You're using words like 'constable' and 'yard'.


----------



## muumi

Yes, I also don't understand why anyone would say its a civil matter. The property legally belongs to you. Nothing to do with the BO. And on top of all that, you did pay him.
When he withheld your property from you, I would consider that theft as well._Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GhostwindAppaloosa

* 70.003. Stable Keeper's, Garageman's, Pasturer's and Cotton Ginner's Liens* (a) A stable keeper with whom an animal is left for care has a lien on the animal for the amount of the charges for the care.

(b) An owner or lessee of a pasture with whom an animal is left for grazing has a lien on the animal for the amount of charges for the grazing.

(c) A garageman with whom a motor vehicle, motorboat, vessel, or outboard motor is left for care has a lien on the motor vehicle, motorboat, vessel, or outboard motor for the amount of the charges for the care, including reasonable charges for towing the motor vehicle, motorboat, vessel, or outboard motor to the garageman's place of business.

(d)(1) A cotton ginner to whom a cotton crop has been delivered for processing or who, under an agreement, is to be paid for harvesting a cotton crop has a lien on the cotton processed or harvested for the amount of the charges for the processing or harvesting. The lienholder is entitled to retain possession of the cotton until the amount of the charge due under an agreement is paid or, if an amount is not specified by agreement, the reasonable and usual compensation is paid. If the cotton owner's address is known and the amount of the charge is not paid before the 31st day after the date the cotton ginner's work is completed or the date payment is due under a written agreement, whichever is later, the lienholder shall request the owner to pay the unpaid charge due and shall notify the owner and any other person having a lien on the cotton which is properly recorded under applicable law with the secretary of state of the fact that unless payment is made not later than the 15th day after the date the notice is received, the lienholder is entitled to sell the cotton under any procedure authorized by Section 9.610, Business & Commerce Code. If the cotton owner's address is not known and the amount of the charge is not paid before the 61st day after the date the cotton ginner's work is completed or the date payment is due under a written agreement, whichever is later, the lienholder is entitled to sell the cotton without notice at a commercially reasonable sale. The proceeds of a sale under this subsection shall be applied first to charges due under this subsection, and any remainder shall be paid in appropriate proportion to:
(A) any other person having a lien on the cotton which is properly recorded under applicable law with the secretary of state; and
(B) the cotton owner.
(2) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed to place an affirmative burden on the cotton ginner to perform any lien searches except as may be appropriate to provide notices required by this section.


*§ 70.005. Sale of Property* 
(a) Except as provided by Subsection (c), a person holding a lien under this subchapter on property other than a motor vehicle subject to Chapter 501, Transportation Code, or cotton under Section 70.003(d), who retains possession of the property for 60 days after the day that the charges accrue shall request the owner to pay the unpaid charges due if the owner's residence is in this state and known. If the charges are not paid before the 11th day after the day of the request, the lienholder may, after 20 days' notice, sell the property at a public sale, or if the lien is on a garment, at a public or private sale.
(b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), if the residence of the owner of property subject to sale under this section is not in this state or not known, the lienholder may sell the property without notice at a public sale after the 60th day after the day that the unpaid charges accrued.
(c) A person holding a lien under Section 70.003(a) on an animal fed in confinement for slaughter may enforce that lien in any manner authorized by Sections 9.610-9.619, Business & Commerce Code.
(d) The lienholder shall apply the proceeds of a sale under this section to the charges. If the lien is on a garment, the lienholder shall apply the proceeds to the charges and the reasonable costs of holding the sale. The lienholder shall pay excess proceeds to the person entitled to them.


*§ 70.007. Unclaimed Excess* 
(a) If a person entitled to excess proceeds under this subchapter is not known or has moved from this state or the county in which the lien accrued, the person holding the excess shall pay it to the county treasurer of the county in which the lien accrued. The treasurer shall issue the person a receipt for the payment. 
(b) If the person entitled to the excess does not claim it before two years after the day it is paid to the treasurer, the excess becomes a part of the county's general fund.


----------



## Speed Racer

Because muumi, PROPERTY falls under civil court. Horses are property, ergo the argument of to whom they belong is a _civil_ matter.


----------



## muumi

The OP has proof that the horses belong to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

*Now I dont know about your state but here a barn owner cannot just take possesion of a horse without a written certified demand of money owed. *
He said he sent a certified letter that I didn't receive, but the cop read the copy he had at the property. I never received the letter bc after waiting at the post office this morning for an hour I found out his wife, who mailed the letter wrote the numbers of my address and their street address on the envelope, so I never would have received it. I now have the letter in my hand that clearly states the money owed per day is for my mare and my stud colt!!!

*They have to have proof you owe any money including a boarding contract. *

He didn't have to have proof last night, the cop said so, even though the initial cop I talked to said unless he could provide a contract with my signature on it he couldn't hold my property.

*if your telling us the facts and what you said has happen You just may have a good law suit for theft of horse which in TX I know is pretty serious.*

I have my mare in my possession and all I can do is take the letter to the police station today and hope they will go with me to retrieve my colt I paid his ransom for last night. 

*You have a sales receipt what does he have? *NOTHING 

*Take him to court sue his dumb *** and also for court costs.*
At this point I just want my colt safe with me. I will chalk it up to a lesson learned after that, but I am just praying the police station sees that I paid for him last night and have the right to retrieve him today.


----------



## Speed Racer

muumi said:


> The OP has proof that the horses belong to her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So? How does that apply to the police officer? He's not there to make sure she gets her property, he's there to keep the peace. Period.


----------



## bird3220

Speed Racer said:


> Because muumi, PROPERTY falls under civil court. Horses are property, ergo the argument of to whom they belong is a _civil_ matter.


The arguement last night was him saying (in front of the cop) as long as I paid the money he stated I owed him he would release my property. That no longer makes it a civil matter when a cop is standing there doing a civil standby for an agreed upon transaction. The arguement was never who they belong to the arguement has always been he wants money that he never told me about.


----------



## bird3220

Speed Racer said:


> So? How does that apply to the police officer? He's not there to make sure she gets her property, he's there to keep the peace. Period.


The cop agreed that if I paid him the money he would make sure he released my property, but that did not happen. So back to the police station I go


----------



## TimberRidgeRanch

_Contact this person for your rights _

_For Copies of Texas Stock Laws:_

Alison Rowe Equine Legal Services, PC
P.O. Box 151887
Fort Worth, Texas 71608
Telephone: (817) 246-4830
Email

_For General Legal Matters:_

Alison M. Rowe
Kelly Hart & Hallman LLP
201 Main Street, Suite 2500 
Fort Worth, TX 76102
Telephone: (817) 878-3541
Facsimile: (817) 878-9741
www.kellyhart.com​


----------



## Cacowgirl

This is a real mess! I hope w/the letter in hand, & proof that you paid last night-you did get a receipt, right?, that you will be able to get your colt. I would definetely talk to a police supervisor beforehand & make sure that someone that really understnds the situation is on hand. Once you have your horses safely out-then see about getting some or all the money back through the courts. But even if you get a judgement against this BO, you may not ever get the money-just what I've seen in my experiences.


----------



## muumi

Good luck! Let us know how it goes. Hopefully it goes way smoother this time round.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

GhostwindAppaloosa said:


> * 70.003. Stable Keeper's, Garageman's, Pasturer's and Cotton Ginner's Liens* (a) A stable keeper with whom an animal is left for care has a lien on the animal for the amount of the charges for the care.
> 
> NO CHARGES WERE EVER DISCUSSED UNTIL YESTERDAY WHEN HE STATED I OWED HIM $15 A DAY SINCE MAY 27TH
> 
> (b) An owner or lessee of a pasture with whom an animal is left for grazing has a lien on the animal for the amount of charges for the grazing.
> 
> NO GRAZING, SHE WAS STANDING IN A DIRT PASTURE WHERE I SUPPLIED FEED AND HAY AND HAVE THE RECEIPTS TO PROVE IT.


----------



## TimberRidgeRanch

Smetimes when a person hires a lawyer the one who is truely in the wrong will bow out and quit the BS. Because lawyers which we on here ARE NOT can find alot more money owed then what the stable owner is willing to pay if he is truely in the wrong. JMHO

TRR


----------



## bird3220

TimberRidgeRanch said:


> _*Contact this person for your rights *_​
> _For Copies of Texas Stock Laws:_​
> Alison Rowe Equine Legal Services, PC
> P.O. Box 151887
> Fort Worth, Texas 71608
> Telephone: (817) 246-4830
> Email​
> _For General Legal Matters:_​
> Alison M. Rowe
> Kelly Hart & Hallman LLP
> 201 Main Street, Suite 2500
> Fort Worth, TX 76102
> Telephone: (817) 878-3541
> Facsimile: (817) 878-9741
> 
> www.kellyhart.com​


 
Thank you. As soon as I have my colt safely in my arms I fully intend on seeing what I can do to make sure this man can't do this to anyone else ever again. The issue has never been paying him board, its that he lied to obtain it from me.


----------



## bird3220

TimberRidgeRanch said:


> *Smetimes when a person hires a lawyer the one who is truely in the wrong will bow out and quit the BS. Because lawyers which we on here ARE NOT can find alot more money owed then what the stable owner is willing to pay if he is truely in the wrong. JMHO*
> 
> *TRR*


 
I know what the truth is and I know what the lies are, honestly I paid the man because I care about the well being of my horses and I truly believe if I would have left my mare there last night when I went back to get her she would be dead or gone. I fully intend on pursuing this further once I have my colt


----------



## Ink

I don't understand how he can back date the start of board on the official letter? I would think you would have to start from the day the letter was post marked. Otherwise what's to stop any BO from raising board starting a month ago and coming after me for back payments?


----------



## bird3220

muumi said:


> Good luck! Let us know how it goes. Hopefully it goes way smoother this time round.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am praying it does because I don't know what I will do if I trust in law enforcement again to do what is right after I have paid the man what he requested and they still don't allow me to get my colt.


----------



## bird3220

Ink said:


> I don't understand how he can back date the start of board on the official letter? I would think you would have to start from the day the letter was post marked. Otherwise what's to stop any BO from raising board starting a month ago and coming after me for back payments?


 
That is what I said, but honestly I was tired of fighting with him so I agreed to pay him what he wanted so I could get my horses. But yes you are exactly correct, he says he told me in May about the $15 a day, and according to the genious cop yesterday he was right and I was wrong and I should just go ahead and pay the man.


----------



## bird3220

Cacowgirl said:


> This is a real mess! I hope w/the letter in hand, & proof that you paid last night-you did get a receipt, right?, that you will be able to get your colt. I would definetely talk to a police supervisor beforehand & make sure that someone that really understnds the situation is on hand. Once you have your horses safely out-then see about getting some or all the money back through the courts. But even if you get a judgement against this BO, you may not ever get the money-just what I've seen in my experiences.


 
I could honestly careless about the money at this point. I just want my colt. And if it is ruled that a certified letter can't be back dated without proof of previous conversation and the fact that his genious wife put the wrong address on the letter meaning I was never notified, I would have a good chance of retrieving my money as well as court costs.


----------



## muumi

I didn't notice the back dating before, but Ink may be onto something there.
That does seem dodgy!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

I just reread my letter again and I realized that the letter does not state anything about him holding my horses for non-payment. AND THE PLOT THICKENS!!!


----------



## TimberRidgeRanch

bird3220 said:


> I just reread my letter again and I realized that the letter does not state anything about him holding my horses for non-payment. AND THE PLOT THICKENS!!!


 GO GET YOUR COLT! But first contact Animal Control dont wait.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians

The cop was there to keep either party from being assaulted. They are not there to enforce contracts which may or may not exist. You need to take all your documentation and go file a claim in Small Claims Court and sue to get your money back. Keep that letter and the envelope it came in to show the judge. If you didn't get the Post Office clerk's name who helped you in the search for the letter, go back and get it. 

When you go to court and asks why you paid, you tell him because the officer said you should (acting under color of authority) and you felt that to insure the safety of your animals you had to pay. Keep a list of every officer, deputy, Sgt, Lt., Capt., dispatcher, that you have spoken to and list the dates and times and be prepared to produce it in court. That way, if the judge feels the need, he can follow up before rendering a verdict in your case. 

This kind of thing is why the department I worked for would only send an officer to keep peace and the call type was KTP, Keep the Peace. In a civil situation we were not allowed to express an opinion and I would not have looked at ID's, letters, contracts, nothing. The 2 of you would have been kept physically separated and nothing more. That was the extent of the officer's job. The horse is property and depending on how your state's laws are written, just by having them on his property it may be that he has a 'stableman's lien' on them by their very presence. 

It's too bad that people don't do business in a business like manner, get contracts that clearly state what you will or will not do for XXX amount of pay and then when/if someone breaks the contract, you have more than he said, she said.


----------



## ThirteenAcres

May I ask what part of Texas you're in? This sounds familiar.


----------



## bird3220

TimberRidgeRanch said:


> *GO GET YOUR COLT! But first contact Animal Control dont wait.*


Please excuse my ignorance, what will calling animal control do? What do I say to them?


----------



## bird3220

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> The cop was there to keep either party from being assaulted. They are not there to enforce contracts which may or may not exist. You need to take all your documentation and go file a claim in Small Claims Court and sue to get your money back. Keep that letter and the envelope it came in to show the judge. If you didn't get the Post Office clerk's name who helped you in the search for the letter, go back and get it.
> 
> When you go to court and asks why you paid, you tell him because the officer said you should (acting under color of authority) and you felt that to insure the safety of your animals you had to pay. Keep a list of every officer, deputy, Sgt, Lt., Capt., dispatcher, that you have spoken to and list the dates and times and be prepared to produce it in court. That way, if the judge feels the need, he can follow up before rendering a verdict in your case.
> 
> This kind of thing is why the department I worked for would only send an officer to keep peace and the call type was KTP, Keep the Peace. In a civil situation we were not allowed to express an opinion and I would not have looked at ID's, letters, contracts, nothing. The 2 of you would have been kept physically separated and nothing more. That was the extent of the officer's job. The horse is property and depending on how your state's laws are written, just by having them on his property it may be that he has a 'stableman's lien' on them by their very presence.
> 
> It's too bad that people don't do business in a business like manner, get contracts that clearly state what you will or will not do for XXX amount of pay and then when/if someone breaks the contract, you have more than he said, she said.


This is a huge lesson learned for me. I trusted someone who was a friend and have been dealt an awful hand. The reason I believed once I paid the money I would get my horses is because the barn owner stated he would do so in front of the cop and the cop stated that would be fine. Joke was on me I guess


----------



## bird3220

ThirteenAcres said:


> May I ask what part of Texas you're in? This sounds familiar.


Houston


----------



## ThirteenAcres

Ah. The guy I know is in College Station. 

I learned the hard way about not getting things in writing. I was purchasing a horse from a man, and when things got weird (he was being very inappropriate with sexual suggestions and I was no longer comfortable at his barn), I told him to keep the horse and just refund minus the board for the month she was at his barn. (during this month i bought all her feed and hay as they fed crappy feed)

Needless to say I never saw a penny back, and I didn't care as I simply didn't want to deal with this man agai

So sorry you're having to go through this. I really hope you get your baby back today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## chandra1313

While a lot of people are worried that people are slighting the officers, maybe you should take note of this. Receipts appear not to be worth the paper they are written on. I've often wondered on this myself, could someone come on my property steal my horse and say it is theirs. I mean how could you prove it and if the person sells your horse in the meantime what would you do? That is why if the police are sticking just to the rule of thumb then she has proof of ownership and the boarding fees should be carried out in court, or he should have placed a legal lein on her horses so again he can't sell them there by protecting all that are involved.


----------



## Kayella

LOL of course this is in Houston. Gotta love our cops :wink: 

If this were me, I'd be so angry and hurt. I'd be outraged! You would not be able to hold me back from that man. Would you be able to PM me his name and location, so I know to NEVER board with him?


----------



## chandra1313

Ink said:


> I don't understand how he can back date the start of board on the official letter? I would think you would have to start from the day the letter was post marked. Otherwise what's to stop any BO from raising board starting a month ago and coming after me for back payments?


 
Exactly, that is why even though she just wants to get her property back, she should follow up with this so that this gets harder for other people to pull.


----------



## Calming Melody

I would just go up there and get your colt , but first I would go and talk to a lawyer as well and talk to him about suing that man for the pain and suffering as well as getting money back that you have already gave him . Oh, and be sure to take one of his cards and when you go and confront that butt again give him the card of your lawyer and that should basically scare him , but I would sue him anyways just cause what he did was wrong ! Hope everything works out for you ...worse comes to worse and you can't get anything done file theft charges on him and value the horse at more than $500 , theft over $500 is a felony ; )


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians

bird3220 said:


> This is a huge lesson learned for me. I trusted someone who was a friend and have been dealt an awful hand. The reason I believed once I paid the money I would get my horses is because the barn owner stated he would do so in front of the cop and the cop stated that would be fine. Joke was on me I guess


It's awful when a friend screws you over. Or, let me rephrase that, someone you THOUGHT was a friend because a true friend will not do this to you. BUT, anytime you do any kind of business with anyone, regardless of if you use money or exchange goods or services, sit down for a minute and write down what your expectations are and that the other person also agrees to fulfill your expectations, both then sign & date and if possible have an uninvolved 3rd party witness and date. Then you have a very secure legal leg to stand on. 

Chances are you will prevail in small claims because it sounds like this guy did everything BUT the right thing, so I encourage you to go after your money that way. It's only around $100 to file, no attorneys needed or even allowed in the court room and if he no shows, automatic judgement in your favor.


----------



## bird3220

Thanks everyone for all the advice and understanding. I know that even though last night did not go my way regarding the cop and everything, the most important thing to me at this point is to make sure that I have my colt safely in my custody and back nursing on my mare. Once I achieve that (which will happen today, because if the cops say they won't honor the letter I will pay him the additional money just to get my colt), then I will pursue further suits/charges. I wish more than anything I would have gotten everything in writing, but I do believe that between his lies and their mistakes (addressing the certified letter incorrectly so I never received proper notification) that they have absolutely no proof that I ever owed them anything. I fully intend to go back after him as soon as my colt is safe


----------



## TimberRidgeRanch

bird3220 said:


> Please excuse my ignorance, what will calling animal control do? What do I say to them?


 Animal control knows the laws more then a simple police officer they will guide you in the right direction and having a lawyer available helps as well. And when the poli e officer was there when you paid the man he is now a witness that you paid the guy cant just go and change the amount he wants. Even if you have the letter now how much dd the letter demand for payment and for who Both or just the mare? If you paid its no longer a civil matter its theft The guy cant just make his own laws. Like paying back payments on a car loan they say they will give car back once money owed is paid they give car back they dont keep it, they cant keep it. Its now theft.
I would have that man by his balls right now not tonight not later NOW I would of been on the phone to a lawyer the minute he fell back on his end of the deal. Freak waiting. By now the colt could be gone or worst. Contacting a lawyer they get right on it, and sometimes just a simple letter to the guy will make him tuck his tail and run.

TRR


----------



## Daisy25

Gosh, what a mess!

I am wondering about the May 27th date...

Is that possibly 90 days after your "official" purchase date? I'm wondering if the BO was working on making a case for 'abandoned property' ?


----------



## bird3220

TimberRidgeRanch said:


> *Animal control knows the laws more then a simple police officer they will guide you in the right direction and having a lawyer available helps as well. And when the poli e officer was there when you paid the man he is now a witness that you paid the guy cant just go and change the amount he wants. Even if you have the letter now how much dd the letter demand for payment and for who Both or just the mare? If you paid its no longer a civil matter its theft The guy cant just make his own laws. Like paying back payments on a car loan they say they will give car back once money owed is paid they give car back they dont keep it, they cant keep it. Its now theft.*
> *I would have that man by his balls right now not tonight not later NOW I would of been on the phone to a lawyer the minute he fell back on his end of the deal. Freak waiting. By now the colt could be gone or worst. Contacting a lawyer they get right on it, and sometimes just a simple letter to the guy will make him tuck his tail and run.*
> 
> *TRR*


I hadn't thought of it that way, I guess simply because I had faith in the law last night and it totally screwed me, but I am calling the police station now to see what I need to do to pursue theft charges. Thank you again for all of your advice


----------



## bird3220

Daisy25 said:


> Gosh, what a mess!
> 
> I am wondering about the May 27th date...
> 
> Is that possibly 90 days after your "official" purchase date? I'm wondering if the BO was working on making a case for 'abandoned property' ?


 
I bought my mare February 4th. May 17th I took 10 bags of feed to the barn, and on May 23 I went there to find that 6 bags were gone. I asked him, "So Cheyenne is eating a bag of feed a day now?" I swear that is exactly how I asked and I did not accuse him of stealing anything. I received a phone call from him a couple hours later saying he didn't steal from me and then he got mad, cussed at me and yelled at me and then hung up on me. I went to check on my horses but I had no contact with him from the 23rd to the 30th because of his actions. I guess he just picked that date because it was around the time of the falling out.


----------



## Speed Racer

Calming Melody said:


> Worse comes to worse and you can't get anything done file theft charges on him and value the horse at more than $500 , theft over $500 is a felony ; )


Another NOT brilliant suggestion. :-x

Perjuring herself and stating the animals are worth more than $500.00 each when they're not is* illegal*. Which opens her up to censure and even jail time from the judge. Even if she _thinks_ they're worth more, she'd have to prove it with a written appraisal from an equine appraiser. 

It would appear that far too many of you have gotten your 'legal expertise' from TV crime shows, not by the knowledge of actual laws and how the system works.

I agree* if* the scenario is exactly as has been painted by the OP, that she got taken for a ride. This is a hard lesson for her, and I'll bet she won't need to learn it twice. If nothing else, she's wiser to the ways of scammers and won't hesitate to ask for everything in writing from now on out.


----------



## Calming Melody

A horses value depends on what the owner believes she could get for the horse ..face it horses don't have a set value !


----------



## bird3220

Speed Racer said:


> Another NOT brilliant suggestion. :-x
> 
> Perjuring herself and stating the animals are worth more than $500.00 each when they're not is* illegal*. Which opens her up to censure and even jail time from the judge. Even if she _thinks_ they're worth more, she'd have to prove it with a written appraisal from an equine appraiser.
> 
> It would appear that far too many of you have gotten your 'legal expertise' from TV crime shows, not by the knowledge of actual laws and how the system works.


:thumbsup: I agree. I am attempting to do my best of abiding by the law in order to make sure I can get my horse back and that if there is a chance I can pursue this further that I am doing it legally. 

I've never been to jail, I definitely don't like being confined to small spaces, and orange is not my color !!!!


----------



## Roperchick

Spped Racer i dont think shes calling him stupid because he wouldnt make the BO give her her colt i think she was calling him stupid and incompetent because how it sounds
A. the cop had documented proof that he read to the BO
B. it sounds as if he was opinionated towards teh BO (maybe not but either way is seems he acted in an unproffesional matter)
C. if they have no authority to sort this out and are only there to keep the peace then what was he doing with all the documentation and reading it all off forming his own opinions? the copy of the letter should have been read by both and then there would be no confusion and no room for misinterpretation. if it had gotten heated then he could have stepped in.

this is a really stressful situation and its completely understandable that she would be angry at the "stupid" cop. pretty sure shes not the only person EVER on the ENTIRE PLANET to cal a cop or some other authoritative figure stupid and incompetent when dealing with a predicament such as this.


----------



## TimberRidgeRanch

Well SPEED RACER I certainly do not get what I know from any dang TV show where I do get it is from knowing and learning the animal laws here in my state. and from what I have been told when I put a lien on a horse. 
What I dont get is why your being so defensive and overly critical of ones posts lol. You seem ( and I may be wrong ) to get hot under the collar very quick. 
Those who are posting on here are just stating opinions and some get emotional about their horses. 
and yes COPS CAN BE VERY STUPID as with any human they tend to say what they think the person wants to hear especially if its a young girl and when it comes right down to it they change their tone. 
and her sayig her horse or horses is worth over 500 is not far fetched and is not concidered perjury. Her colt alone is worth over 500.00. Perjury is when lets say the judge asks him if she paid for the horse and he says no but yet she shows the sales receipt. Lying to benefit ones outcome in a court ruling is perjury not saying what value of a horse is. alot of horses are going for 500.00 
anyways
Just remember its a forum lol

TRR


----------



## stevenson

I would move my horses. If you want to leave without a lot of animosity, maybe throw him a few bucks, and state This is to help you out with hay for your horses . you may be helping his horses . Be sure to get a boarding contract next time that specifies what is and is not expected of you. 
But remember, you are always on someone elses property and need to show that respect, as with any boarding situation.


----------



## bird3220

stevenson said:


> I would move my horses. If you want to leave without a lot of animosity, maybe throw him a few bucks, and state This is to help you out with hay for your horses . you may be helping his horses . Be sure to get a boarding contract next time that specifies what is and is not expected of you.
> But remember, you are always on someone elses property and need to show that respect, as with any boarding situation.


I showed respect, I paid for all my own feed and hay, and I helped him out around the barn cleaning stalls and the feed room and doing other things that were never asked of me because I appreciated them for allowing my mare and colt to be there without paying. My mare is gone from there and my colt will be gone from there tonight. And if all goes as I hope he will be charged with theft and perjury for lying about what was in the certified letter. I already threw him $360 so I could get my mare because I was worried he would hurt her or take her and hide her. I will deal with my expenses in civil court later.


----------



## wyominggrandma

when do you get to get the foal tonight?


----------



## bird3220

I am walking in to the police station now to speak to a supervisor and discuss my options.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Roperchick

good luck with getting him and try to keep very civil and calm about it all. now is NOT the time to blow up and get in his face about it. get ur boy out safely, with a spotless track record then you can go after him in court. hope all is well with the little man and he can get home tonight!


----------



## chandra1313

I really think that there are people on this forum who just troll the posts to be annoying and try to cause undue stress to the people who are posting. Come on sometimes there is a need for debate but sometimes you just need to be supportive, not be on some kind of high horse about everything you read and comment about. Geez growup.


----------



## waresbear

Well, since (according to many posts) police are just there to keep the peace, maybe you should've just showed up and took your horses, let him call the cops if things got out of hand, keep leading the horses & video him doing the funky chicken on you. You say the gate is locked, well lead the horses out the way humans come & go. Pretty much what I would have done, ****** would not have seen one red cent from this chick I tell ya.


----------



## Rascaholic

LOTS of deleted stuff.

OP I do hope you get your colt back. I hope you get all your money back and then some for the BS. I do sympathize with you and all the upset this has caused you. It stinks. You shouldn't have to go through this.

I will still post this.... Cops look out for our asses every single day. They are human. Part of their job is to make a decision or judgement call, then *let the courts decide* who is right/wrong guilty/not guilty and such. I agree that he made a bad call. But to come on a public forum and call him stupid. I hope he doesn't have friends or family on here.....or isn't a member.

I'd not take well to someone calling my family ( Yes, County Deputies and a couple City Cops in the family tree) stupid like that. So, on behalf of cop families everywhere, _*please*_ don't do that. You don't know what he dealt with right before your call. You don't know if he scooped someone's dead body parts off the road, or responded to a domestic violence call and had to take someones kids, or just trasnported a molested child to the ER for Child Services. You just don't know because it isn't all KTP calls for these folks. It's real life and it's often ugly as homemade sin! A KTP call is the least of that cops worries.....


----------



## Allison Finch

bird3220 said:


> Yet the *STUPID COP,* chose to believe his WORDS over my DOCUMENTED proof!!!!!


You are very misinformed about the police and what they can, and cannot do.

I have been a cop for fifteen years, seven as a patrol Sgt. There is absolutely NOTHING the officer can do in this situation. They are not in the position to believe either side of this. As has been said, this is a civil matter and police officer DO NOT ENFORCE CIVIL LAW. They are only responsible for criminal law. 

The moment you moved your horse onto that property with both of you consenting, it became civil, and nothing else.

You can insult police officers, if you want to look foolish, but it will change nothing. Sorry to say, you are not the center of anyone else's universe but your own. Slinging nastiness will change nothing.


----------



## Allison Finch

Speed Racer said:


> Where's Allison? She's a law enforcement officer, and should be able to tell you what an officer CAN and CAN'T do in a situation like this.


Well, as said, we can do nothing in this instance. It needs to go before a magistrate/judge and only he will make a decision based on provable evidence. 



> They have_ no _authority to make anyone do anything. They're only there to make sure nobody gets assaulted.


Again, absolutely correct. We will escort people to places of conflict, in civil matters, but only as protection. Such as domestic situations when a person wants to collect their property. If the person in the house doesn't want to give it to them, I don't care if he provides purchase receipts, We can't make the person in the house give it to them. They can only sue for the stuff in court.

Sorry, OP, that's the way it is. 




> Cops are not a judge and jury; they should not be expected to make decisions based in favor of either party. Good heavens people they're_ peace_ officers, not strong armed henchmen!


Thanks Speed, it is always nice to see someone who is informed. :wink:


----------



## Allison Finch

bird3220 said:


> No I respect the law officers who do the *right thing!!!* I don't respect the ones who are lazy and just don't want to fill out paperwork.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So, what is the "right thing"? His doing everything YOU want regardless of the law? SHEESH!


----------



## bird3220

Thanks everyone for the support. I wish I could just walk him out but he's on private property behind locked gates.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Roperchick

okay so im just gonna say one thing....drop it. yes she called a cop stupid. ive done it before. ive done it alot.
does it meand that i think all cops are crap and they should all be fired? no.
Im in the military, im going into law enforecment when i get out (maye reenlist for MP) so i have a healthy respect for them. my fathers a cop, 2 of my cousins are cops and i hang out at the sherrifs department all the time...

maybe the guy ws having a bad day and just wanted to get done. maybe it was heat of the moment and OP was just fed up with it all....does that mean you should condemn her for calling a cop stupid??? are you gonna go arrest every person that gets on and calls cops pigs and a-holes?
people get stressed and say things. things others wont agree with. but if i were in her situation and i had an authoritative figure with me (WHETHER THEY WERE ALLOWED TO HELP OR NOT) i would want some support. and things could get very narrow sighted then.


are you gonna blame her for being stressed out about getting the colt safely back to his mother, and ****ed at the BO for being a douche, and saying something that may have been a little rushed, a little rude? i sure as heck aint because this is a very touchy situation.

the important thing is she gets her colt back healthy and gets the BO to pay for his mistakes. not that she was heated up, stressed out and called a cop stupid.

i cant tell you how many times ive gotten onliine and seen somebody rave against law enforcement or the military. but am i gonna go after them because i am? no. because everybody has their own ideas and opinions...

just because he was a cop and wears a uniform doesnt make him untouchable. maybe he was a rude INDIVIDUAL, maybe not. *DONT go for him just because he wears the uniform.....look to the person underneath, the character of the person, not the shiny buttons.*

end rant 

again keep us updated and i hope things go smoothly tonight.


----------



## chandra1313

I agree with Ropperchick, I've never been disrespectful to an officer, but when I was barely 18yrs old I was given a speeding ticket and the officer asked if I had a licence to fly a plane, I was scared to death on the verge of tears and made the mistake of saying "I don't have a licence for a plane" of course my boyfriend laughed his **** off at that and the officer looked at me like I'm a idiot and the boyfriend and him shared looks. I never forgot that. That police officer missed a opportunity to be a role model instead my view has become if you want to wear that uniform you must uphold a standard above the rest of us, you don't get to slack off, have a bad day sorry you want my undying gratitude for the job you do then you better be willing to earn that, my taxes pay for you to just be average, my respect cost more.

The officer decided to make his own judgement call that day, if he hadn't then both horses would still be there and Bird3220 would be at the county attorney's office or at a lawyers today finding out her rights. A lot of people keep forgetting that the officer had the copy of the letter that said this amount of money paid to BO, will get these two horses returned to the owner. The officer took it upon himself to make his ownself look bad.


----------



## Silent one

I'm going to tell you I'm hearing a lot of BS on here about what police can and can't do. It's all about what they WILL AND WON'T DO! 

I have a friend who was on the opposite side of a situation, the horse was on HER property, IN her barn with a 2 month old foal. My friend had purchased the foal and had a verbal agreement to board the mare until foal was weaned. Had a written and signed bill of sale on the foal. People decided they wanted to take mare and not baby. She said no. They came with police.

The policeman took the side of the mare's owners and told them to take her out of my friend's stall, in her barn, on her property. Then when they said the foal was likely to die without the mother, HE LET THEM TAKE THE FOAL TOO, AND TOLD HER IT WAS A CIVIL MATTER!

And it is even worse, at one point he even physically held her back from blocking the stall access.....

So police make decisions all the time about who they will believe and what the law means.


----------



## ThatDraftGirl

How did it go Bird? Do you have your colt?


----------



## TimberRidgeRanch

I will never disrespect a law officer But you cannot tell me there are no idiot cops out there that do stupid things. I know alot of cops threw clinics held where we taught them handling of horses in emergency situations. and alot of them will agree there are some pretty retarded cops out there just as much as any other retarded person lol wearing a badge doesnt make you smart. A good cop is a cop that can go from one situation to another and not take the attitude with them. Leave it where you got it my friend Officer Nelson said ( Now trains swat in VT. You cant take your attitude on the road thats where your trouble starts. 
Also a officer cannot misinform a person just so they dont upset the person. Its wrong and its stupid.
and like some said when upset we say dumb stuff. what we going to say " Man Im so upset the sweet cop told me misimformation I could scream" Like stubbing your toe on a door jam I have yet to meet anyone who says " Oh silly me I stubbed my toe. " lol
BIRD I sure hope you get your colt back. And be nice to the cops they mean well :razz:

TRR


----------



## Jewelsb

Yes she called the cop "stupid" who gives a $&/@! Ya she said it on a public forum. She however did not state his name or anything as such. I don't see why people have to get so off topic and cause problems where there is no need. My husband is an MP and I know for a fact that there are some cops that don't care for their jobs or dealing with people's issues. Just cause he is a cop it doesn't make him a saint lol.

I hope you got your colt. You seem very honest and your very nice even when people try to get to you. I wouldn't be so nice but your obviously a better person than I in these situations!
Again goodluck to you!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kayella

Seriously, who cares if she called the cop an idiot? I don't see why everyone is taking it so personal and keeping the thread off track.

Let us know how tonight goes for your colt, OP


----------



## Calming Melody

Ugh I am dying for an update !! I have been following this thread all day ....very anxious to see the baby back with the mama safe and sound !!


----------



## redpony

^^^ ditto
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jewelsb

^^^^ same here!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

Cops went with me to the house. Barn owner stated he never give me the colt and the colt was his and he sold him today and they picked him up 10 min before I got there. The cops did nothing. I feel so helpless. Gotta start looking into ownership laws and how to prove my mare was still pregnant when I bought her. This flat out SUCKS!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Skyseternalangel

I'm so sorry OP.. that is beyond messed up. Did a vet help you with the birth/pregnancy? You can get them to vouch for you if so and get your foal back as he sold stolen property.


----------



## bird3220

Unless I can prove I legally owned him there's apparently nothing I can do and my colt is just gone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

Nope no vet on the birth. I did call one 3 days after he was born Bc his eyes were really yellow but they never saw him Bc he was better. So no proof. In hoping maybe the dates from the pics I took on my iPhone and receipts from the tetanus shots the day he was born will help, but in feeling pretty helpless right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

It's my own fault for not having everything in writing and I've never felt so awful before. I want to beat my own self up right now
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## redpony

If the certified letter stated that the charges were for both horses, then that is proof the colt belongs to you! Surely he wasn't asking you to pay board for 'his' colt, right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Calming Melody

TEXAS CRUELTY TO ANIMALS STATUTES


----------



## Ink

Would the letter he sent you be considered proof? Since he clearly stated on there that he was charging you board for both horses?

That's such a terrible thing to do. I hope you get enough evidence to go after this SOB.


----------



## tempest

You have the bill of sale right? If you bought her before she gave birth and she was already pregnant, the colt's age should give significant proof that he belonged to you. And post pictures and posters around saying that the colt was stolen and needs to be returned to his rightful owner.


----------



## bird3220

He stated to the police that he was going to give the colt to me but after all this he decided not to and the money I paid him was not me buying te horse it was for board I agreed upon. It's a bunch of lies and it seems according to the cops there's nothing ican do other than try to take him to court and prove I owned the colt not him
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Calming Melody

surely you have pics of when she had the baby or some picture with a time stamp from it , either a picture on your phone or on a camera? some sort of facebook status or what not (if you have one ) ??? What is this guys number let me talk to the jerk!!


----------



## bird3220

I have the bill of sale but he will just lie as say she had already had the baby before he sold her. I'm hoping the letter and dated pictures and receipts from the tetanus shots I gave when he was born will help me out. I have got to find out what tx law states about dial ownership then I have to prove she was pregnant when I bought her
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

I have tons of pics from the afternoon after he was born and FB statuses but I'm not sure those would hold up in court
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JoesMom

Wait, he sends you a letter stating that he is charging you for board for the two of them. Then he tells the cop you need to pay board for each of them separately. Now he sells the colt and says it is his. You need an attorney badly. File charges against him for stealing your horse and make him prove it was still his. As others have said, hopefully you had a vet out to check the foal and mare so will have bills to you pertaining to the him.


----------



## bird3220

So basically he bought himself 24 hrs last night and ave him time to "sell" hide my colt
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

My colt was never his. My mare was pregnant when I bought we but it seems that without written proof of his date of birth I don't have much ground to stand on
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

I am going to pursue my legal options and go talk to a lawyer or 20 if that's what it takes, but I have absolutely ZERO idea where my colt is right now
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Calming Melody

Information For Riders And Owners - Horse Law


----------



## Skyseternalangel

They can check his teeth for age and do a DNA test to see that's her baby... just an idea.

Don't give up yet!


----------



## Calming Melody

Are you sure he really sold him or was he just saying that ? Do you have any witnesses ? What exactly does the certified letter say ? What does the police report say from last night ...calm down ...take a deep breath and start thinking really thinking about any proof with any mention of the mare and colt being yours...just remember calm , deep breaths , don't panic, it will be ok !


----------



## Jewelsb

Take him to court ASAP! Personally I think he's hiding your colt and this may sound bad but I'd follow him and find out where my horse was and just take it in the middle of the night.
Please file charges as soon as you can. I think you have enough proof to win.
I had a feeling he was going to move your colt. This is making me sad! I'm sorry for all your having to deal with right now. This guy needs to get what's coming to him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

I have to be able to find him to do an age check, but maybe I can get someone to believe he is mine and send him a subpeona requiring he produce the foal and prove his age
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Calming Melody

Equine Law | Law Office of Andrea James, P.L.L.C. | Bryan, Texas


----------



## bird3220

The certified letter he calls them "your horses" 5 times, calls both horses by name, but the cops said they couldn't do anything Bc it's all civil stuff
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

Jewelsb - trust me I wish now I wouldn't have trusted the law and I would have made him prove I "stole my own horses"!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jewelsb

bird3220 said:


> The certified letter he calls them "your horses" 5 times, calls both horses by name, but the cops said they couldn't do anything Bc it's all civil stuff
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's your proof right there so please don't give up hope!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Calming Melody

Houston, Texas (TX) Equine Law Law Firms, Lawyers & Attorneys - Lawyers.com


----------



## Skyseternalangel

So he did send the certified letter then? And you only just got it?? The mail must be really slow over there.

Just line up all your proof and take him to court. So messed up!

**** I just thought of something.. you know how if you don't pay your board for X months, the barn has a right to claim your horse and sell it for the sum of the board? He MAY try to argue that since you didn't pay him, he sold the colt for the money. Even so he didn't have a right to do so because you paid the board and then he sold the colt...

Urgh.


----------



## Calming Melody

Did you go to animal control or talk to them ? IMO taking a baby from it's mother without proper weaning is cruelty to me ...


----------



## bird3220

Oh that's the kicker.... His wife wrote my address down wrong so I never would have gotten the letter
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

I am contacting lawyers and animal control tomorrow but w/ animal control I have to be able to tell them where he is and the BO will just lie and say the colt was weaned already
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Skyseternalangel

So then how did you get it? Just wondering.


----------



## bird3220

I never had to pay board. He said as long as I paid for their feed/hay it was fine. Then yesterday morning all of this was sprung on me and now today my colt is gone
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

I went to the post office this morning and told then the situations and that the letter was supposed to be there. I waited an hour and one of the ladies finally found it and saw the address and the wife had put my # address and teir street name address
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JoesMom

You have the letter now though and in it he calls them your horses. Take it to a lawyer and make the BO prove the colt was his not the other way around. You also have a cop that he told you have to pay board on both of them. There is plenty of proof you just need to take a deep breath and force his hand.


----------



## bird3220

Sorry for my spelling errors tonight. A little flustered and my iPhone apparently likes to make me look like an idiot by auto correction like a 6 yr old
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

I just hate that's it's 11pm and I have to wait until tomorrow again. Been over 24 hrs since my baby nursed
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Silent one

Oh my, I am so sorry sweetie, how devastating to have him do this! I hope you can get an attorney to help you. Will the police not let you file charges against him for theft? Try talking to the district attorney in the morning, might be worth a shot.


----------



## bird3220

Police say he says the colt was his and I have no proof of date of birth ao they can't determine who's being honest and who isn't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

I'm gonna talk to God and anybody else who will listen until somebody decides they can help me. I wish I knew where he was
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Show him the letter. Theft, I believe, is a policy matter right?

You have it there saying "your horseS" not your horse.. HORSES. Plural. That means more than one.


----------



## bird3220

Another "witness" is my farrier who trimmed my mare march 3rd and witnessed that she was still pregnant and I have pictures from right before she was born on my laptop and I pray they hav the photo info from the date they were taken
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Calming Melody

Ok , maybe the cops around there are not that smart , I mean you have a letter HE sent you talking about the mare and her BABY and even naming them ...IF it were me , I would go down there and sneak in and try and see if the baby was there...sneak him out and when he has the cops at your door make him "prove" the baby is his


----------



## LovesMyDunnBoy

I am SO sorry you are going through this! 

I had my ex barn owner kick me out. He said u had a week or he was putting a lock on her stall, EVEN THOUGH this was about the 10 th and I had already paid board on the first for the whole month..and it was all over me leaving the water hose on on accident for about 30 minutes.

It sucks I know! If you can find your colt, I would just take him and let HIM prove that you stole your own horses, and you have a bill of sale AND pictures with dates AND shot records for the baby AND you could DNA test AND he even states that you pay board for the mare and YOUR colt, not only in the letter but to the cop? You would win that argument. Haha. 

Best of luck, and people are way too sensitive on here and not very lenient or considerate of how you may have been stressed and in a rage when you said "stupid cop" gosh people.

Again, best of luck. *hugs*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

Tonight while I was there the police told me he offered to give me half the money back from last night that he said was only for my mare but today he said he'd give me half back Bc he decided not to give me the colt. Cops produced half the money.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jewelsb

Totally agree with calming melody get a pair of bolt cutters!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

Thanks everyone!!!! I am just at a loss at how the heck to get my boy back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jewelsb

Bolt cutters!!! Heck if I were in Texas I'd help you out!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

Lol that has crossed my mind except I should have done that first and made him prove I haven't had my mare at a diff barn since I bought her. really makes me see why people take the law into their own hands
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

The cops said they couldn't search anything Bc I didn't have proof the colt was born after I bought her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jewelsb

I still would do it lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Skyseternalangel

It's not his choice to give you anything, you OWN them. Jeez.. some people are such idiots (not you OP, just how he worded that and what he is thinking)

See this is my WORST nightmare. Someone taking Sky and claiming that he is their property (which is why I stress when my board checks aren't taken out within 3 weeks.. do not want anyone selling my horse or taking him or stealing him)

You have 2 credible witnesses. Vet that you called up and told him about the foal's eyes. He probably asked basic things like age, how long have they been like this, etc. and the farrier who saw your pregnant mare. You have the letter, the bill of sale, and you can run a DNA test and check the baby's teeth.

I think you have yourself a case. Don't accept the money back IMOP. He's trying to make you forget about the colt and you will be questioned why you accepted it, blahblahblah. It'll get worse, IMOP.


----------



## Calming Melody

Hey if ya want I can act all intelligent like and claim to be some hot shot lawyer in TN ? LOL ....I wish I lived closer to , I could go kung gu ninja on his butt ..


----------



## bird3220

The money was for board and upon paying it I received MY horse, and the BO said since he decided not to give me the horse he would give me the $ back
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

And everything communicated from him since last night has been through the cops and when I ask them about making a statement on my behalf they catch amnesia about wht was for sure said and what wasnt
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## redpony

Go to court! I firmly believe you have plenty of evidence to prove the colt is yours.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ladytrails

You should hire a lawyer asap and have the lawyer write a letter. They can do that real quick and it can be delivered next day, etc. if you're quick to act. Then they can move on to filing charges or a civil case, whichever. If, as another poster says, theft of property valued over $500 is a felony, and if this colt is valued at over $500, seems to me that is now a criminal matter. The cop's police report from the first time, when the money was handed over to the BO, will say that the BO told you he wanted more money for "your" colt. You can use that as evidence that the BO is lying and making up this crap as he goes along. I seriously doubt this goon has sold your baby. He would have had to act really fast because couldn't have known that he would end up keeping the colt until the last minute, when he realized what he was getting by with. 

Good luck . . . but get cracking or you might really lose that colt! He may have moved it but you might have some luck if you hurry. Also, netposse.com is really well informed about stuff like this; they will be able to tell you what to do and how to document it to make the strongest case for yourself.


----------



## bird3220

Thanks everyone for believing me and helping me. I am going to try to get some sleep and I will keep y'all updated as things progress. This is far from over!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jewelsb

I have a feeling that if you don't "steal" your colt back now then you will never see him again. I'm not trying to scare you but I really think that's q very real possibility.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

I have no idea where my colt is right now. He is not on the property anymore
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jewelsb

He for sure isn't on the property? Did the cops check?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Calming Melody

That is what I am afraid of , or he has moved him somewhere like a friends or what not ? Or maybe will say he "sold" him , and have a fake bill of sale


----------



## LovesMyDunnBoy

I am SO sorry you are going through this! 

I had my ex barn owner kick me out. He said u had a week or he was putting a lock on her stall, EVEN THOUGH this was about the 10 th and I had already paid board on the first for the whole month..and it was all over me leaving the water hose on on accident for about 30 minutes.

It sucks I know! If you can find your colt, I would just take him and let HIM prove that you stole your own horses, and you have a bill of sale AND pictures with dates AND shot records for the baby AND you could DNA test AND he even states that you pay board for the mare and YOUR colt, not only in the letter but to the cop? You would win that argument. Haha. 

Best of luck, and people are way too sensitive on here and not very lenient or considerate of how you may have been stressed and in a rage when you said "stupid cop" gosh people.

Again, best of luck. *hugs*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

Cops didn't ask for proof from him Bc they said I have no proof proving he's mine
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

I had to stand on te road Bc he told them he'd have me arrested for trespassing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jewelsb

So he could still be on the property
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

Yep could have been in a stall
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

The barn is in the man's backyard so it makes an even trickier situation Bc here in tx ppl get shot for trespassing like that!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Calming Melody

I would hide out around his house and wait for him and the wife to leave , or at least him ...than go hit the wife with the frying pan...oh never mind dont' do that lol....but ya stalk his butt and try and find the perfect time to reclaim what is rightly yours


----------



## Jewelsb

Calming Melody said:


> I would hide out around his house and wait for him and the wife to leave , or at least him ...than go hit the wife with the frying pan...oh never mind dont' do that lol....but ya stalk his butt and try and find the perfect time to reclaim what is rightly yours


Yes!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

Hahahahahha if I didn't have to work I sure would. Maybe I'll put a tracking device on his truck haha
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Calming Melody

Do you got any friends you can get to help stake out his place ? Does he board animals for a living..have a friend or someone he doesn't know go out there and ask about board and what not and while they are looking around see if they see the baby


----------



## Equenix

I have been watching this... And what a jerk! 
I feel terribly sorry for you and I hope this all works out. This is an idea and I'm not sure it would work but if you can get your mare around the area, chances are she will smell him and put up a h*** of a fuss, mayhaps the colt will to.
You're in the right and you have the evidence were he has a pocket of lies that will not be able to hold him up in court. Just because your younger shouldn't make you the least dependable.
If it all dosn't work out, make sure you go down with your teeth in his throat. Sue him big time!


----------



## LovesMyDunnBoy

Where do you live in Texas? Oh and the law here is, they have to ask you to leave and give you two warnings before they can shoot you. And can't shoot you in the back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jewelsb

LovesMyDunnBoy said:


> Where do you live in Texas? Oh and the law here is, they have to ask you to leave and give you two warnings before they can shoot you. And can't shoot you in the back.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lol!
But I think she said Houston
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LovesMyDunnBoy

I'm serious! Lol, and I was gonna say I'd help but I'm up here in Abilene. Sorry!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tempest

I'm going to make a suggestion, I'm aware that you could very well be joking, and I know you want to find your colt, but *DO NOT* stake out on his property or stalk him. He could take you to court for that and use it against you big time. The judge won't care if it was only to get your property back, they will view it as trespassing and you could end up with a restraining order against you. DO NOT do anything until you get a lawyer and discuss your options. I know you're upset and you just want your property back but you will only make matters worse if you get caught on his property without his consent. And do you really want your friends to get into trouble? If you do decide to have people watch him make sure you stay off his property and out of his sight.


----------



## katbalu

LovesMyDunnBoy said:


> Where do you live in Texas? Oh and the law here is, they have to ask you to leave and give you two warnings before they can shoot you. And can't shoot you in the back.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think if someone is considering shooting someone else, they might not be too concerned with that. I mean,how are you going to argue that you weren't warned twice, if you're dead? 
Not that I think this guy would shoot you...But I wouldn't ever put myself in harms way and feel safe because *the law says*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LovesMyDunnBoy

Yeah I understand that of course. I was just clarifying we can't just shoot 'em around here lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Roperchick

first things first. CALL A LAWYER as soon as you get up in the morning! the faster you get the legal going the faster they can move on his property and get your boy back...who knows maybe if he sees that you are religiously pursuing this ridiculous situation he may back off
2. call animal control. maybe they can do something if your convinced that the colts life is in danger, and hes in an unsafe situation they may be able to get him as well.

ride this as hard as you can. dont give him any room to breath or your kiddo will be gone. spread the word. get pics of your colt up on every website, at every feed and tack store and broadcast it at every rodeo.


----------



## muumi

Whoa!! A lot happened while I was sleeping... And none of it good 
So sorry you didn't manage to get the colt.

This is what I think you should do (I am not a lawyer, or a cop, and I do watch law and order occasionally, but as a citizen with rights, this is my opinion).
Print out and collect all evidence (photos, receipts of tetanus shot etc) that you have of your mare being pregnant, and the foal after it was born. Go to the police and file criminal charges of theft, write up a very long and very detailed affadavit... Write down everything everyone said/times etc, especially write down what the BO said to the cops in both instances, because he went back on those statement.

Then, call a lawyer... There were some links on here, have them do something right away... Perhaps they can stop the BO from moving or selling the colt before ownership is proven.
Actually, call a lawyer first. I think the law is on your side, so this guy cannot go on bluffing forever. But do it first thing in the morning... So the process can start working.

For your sake I hope the BO pays over and above what is even necessary for what he has done to you. Who does he think he is?? Above the law? He cannot just make up things as he goes along.
Take him to court and make him pay for being such a (what word can I use?)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## muumi

I want this story to have a good ending, dammit!
It has to have one!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LovesMyDunnBoy

Agreed! ^
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians

At this point, I'd call off work if I had to and get in to see an attorney. If one of the equine ones can't see you right away, then just get a good general practice attorney and get the ball rolling on this. 

I have MAJOR doubts that any kind of theft report will be filed or any criminal charges laid as this is still very much a civil HE SAID SHE SAID case. It's one of those frustrating ones where you know **** well the horse probably has been stolen but because of lack of proof on both sides and the story changing, you really can't do anything until a judge rules on the civil case and possibly even makes the suggestion that the case should now become criminal, to the DA. Of course, the DA can always choose not to file if he doesn't feel the case has merit. 

So, to avoid anymore legal/criminal runaround, I'd get me an attorney on this forthwith and go after this guy legal guns ablazing. First thing I'd ask the attorney would be if he thought he could get an order from a judge freezing this whole thing in its tracks until everything gets sorted out. That would mean the guy couldn't move the colt and you couldn't get him back right away but it would stop him from selling/auctioning/doing God only knows what else with him. If the judge was sympathetic he might even order the colt moved to your place to be put back on his dam but that's iffy. But at this point......LAWYER UP and quick.


----------



## Cacowgirl

Is your avatar pic the colt? Do you know the sire's name? Is the colt registered or eligible to be registered? You bought the mare from this guy? Did you get any paperwork at all on the foal? Yes, get a lawyer asap. And maybe get the word out on the colt so more eyes can be searching. I doubt he's very far away.


----------



## muumi

Exactly what Dreamcatcher said...

I am praying and hoping the next update from the OP starts: I called a lawyer...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## chandra1313

Shoot this is very dissappointing :-( I'm really sorry that your little colt is not home with you tonight. This guy is a real jerk, he didn't deserve your friendship. I firmly believe what goes around comes around. I know its little comfort to you right now with all of the anxiety and frustration you have to be feeling :-( Some people should not own animals ever. I hope you are able to get some rest tonight and I hope tomorrow you will be able to find a way forward.


----------



## bird3220

I am up and at em already this morning. I'm calling lawyers today, friends, everyone to see what I can do. I just need to find one lawyer who believes me enough to force him to produce my colt and get age verification.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TimberRidgeRanch

bird3220 said:


> I am contacting lawyers and animal control tomorrow but w/ animal control I have to be able to tell them where he is and the BO will just lie and say the colt was weaned already
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 BIRD animal control has rights to see the foal and to even investigate care of him. Animal control will know what to do and are not dumb they know animal welfare. They hear BS all the time from people who think they can BS them. Just get in contact as soon as you can wait too long and it may be too late.

TRR


----------



## bird3220

The worst thing about all of this is the cop everyone keeps saying to stop calling stupid had the letter in his hand on Monday that stated the money I paid the jerk was for both horses and because the STUPID cop chose to ignore my pleas he gave the BO 24 to sell/hide my colt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

Animal control will be my first call
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

I don't know why I didn't think of this before... Te BO has a filly who was born 3 wks after my colt and it's obvious in recent pics they are very close in age. That will prove my pics of him are recent and not from before I purchased her. I am praying a lawyer/animal control can help me today
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## gothicangel69

I would inform the BO that you have\are getting a lawyer and plan to sue for the money you paid him, for the colts return (or money's owed if he did indeed sell him) and that you will be pressing charges for theft. Make sure you are very polite and not threatening so he cannot put it against you. Just kindly let him know what you plan to do, and let him know that if he returns your colt, you will not take him to court. You may be able to scare him into returning the horse. Still get a lawyer, but this may help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ink

gothicangel69 said:


> I would inform the BO that you have\are getting a lawyer and plan to sue for the money you paid him, for the colts return (or money's owed if he did indeed sell him) and that you will be pressing charges for theft. Make sure you are very polite and not threatening so he cannot put it against you. Just kindly let him know what you plan to do, and let him know that if he returns your colt, you will not take him to court. You may be able to scare him into returning the horse. Still get a lawyer, but this may help.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I second that. You may even want to record the conversation if at all possible, just in case he says something to incriminate himself.


----------



## bird3220

Tuesday night I paid $360 that he lied and said was only for my mare. When I went back with the actual certified letter yesterday proving he lied he told the cops he would give me the $180 back that was for the colt. I was unable to speak to him Bc he told ten he'd have me arrested for trespassing if I went on his land. The cops said until I can prove he is without a doubt mine I can't press charges
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## gothicangel69

While you may not be able to press charges at the moment, if you go to court, and the judge rules in you favor, you can then press charges for theft. If you are unable to speak to the BO, get a lawyer and have him send a polite letter to the BO informing him that you are taking him to court. Lawyers can write fantastic letters, and can even point out the facts that will make it so YOU win. I really think that once he gets a letter from your lawyer, he'll back down and give you your colt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ink

Definitely talk to a lawyer. I would think that between the certified letter, shot records, and pictures you have enough evidence to go after him. I mean why would you be paying vet bills for HIS horse? But a well qualified attorney will be able to tell you how best to proceed. I hope you're able to get in touch with one soon. Good luck.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

bird3220 said:


> Tuesday night I paid $360 that he lied and said was only for my mare. When I went back with the actual certified letter yesterday proving he lied he told the cops he would give me the $180 back that was for the colt. I was unable to speak to him Bc he told ten he'd have me arrested for trespassing if I went on his land. The cops said until I can prove he is without a doubt mine I can't press charges
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I thought he wanted closer to $450 ($465) ??


----------



## bird3220

The $465 would have been for a whole month. I paid him the 24 days he asked for. He got the cop to believe him and for that I lost him because he had 24 hrs to "sell/hide" him.


----------



## bird3220

I started a new thread in the horse law forum. Please if you post there only post factual legal information because right now that is all that will help me. I am at work this morning trying to research lawyers and I already called animal control and am awaiting a call from them. 

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-law/please-somebody-help-me-127898/#post1558856


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Alright that makes sense.. I'm sorry this is happening to you :/


----------



## LetAGrlShowU

I certainly agree with making all these calls.. like now. Start with animal control. See if they can check on the colt. Then call a Lawyer, or 5. It's not about them believing you, you have proof. You need to find an attorney who works with animal cases- law suits of dog bites, animal property theft, etc.

Inform the man of what yuo intend to do. BUT if you decide to record the conversation, most states it is illegal to obtain recorded admissions of any sort without the other party's knowledge. The conversation will msot likely not be allowed in court.

Get on it. I mean, I take work seriously, but for this, I would have taken a day off like 2 days ago, got my colt back and been done. You did things the right way, and something doesnt add up about the cops. Was it the same cop who went last night as the night before? Your wording with regards to them believing him vs. you have proof of letter having wrong contact info, and his letter stating both horses are yours, plus the proof of them watching you pay the man the night before last, is very hard to comprehend. It would then be a criminal legal matter, as it would be considered theft. 

Take the day off and do what you need to do.


----------



## gothicangel69

Oh, and I would be careful about recording him. I know here you are not allowed to record someone unless they give consent. May want to look into your laws on that. I would also look into the stableman's lein laws, because you can get him there as well. I know here, before they can sell your horse, they have to send a certified letter to your last known address (which they didn't- wrong address), then they have to file for a lien. After so many days, they can then sell the horse at a public auction (not a private sale) and are only allowed to keep what they are owed, the rest is to be returned to you or given to a charity if the owner cannot be contacted after the set date. If he did indeed sell the colt, you can get him for theft, lieing to a police officer, falsifying documents, not following the lien law, and the cost of the colt, not to mention the money you paid for you mare as he did not go about the lien properly and there was not contract. Keep your feed and hay bills, and bring those to court with you, along with anything else that may prove your point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## muumi

good luck, but I wouldn't contact him first without talking to your lawyer.
Don't do anything else without talking to your lawyer about it first.
There have been too many mistakes already, and too many chances lost, and if you threaten this guy further, who knows.
Just get a lawyers advice, and get the lawyer to contact him on your behalf.
Your next move has to be the deathblow, or you're just giving him more time to evade you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

Yes the same STUPID cop went last night and as expected told me its all civil and he can't help me or make him tell me anything about where the colt is because the BO stated to the cops the colt was never mine he was his.

The sgt that went last night stated it is legal to record conversation as long as one person in the conversation is aware it is beign recorded.


----------



## bird3220

My best friend is a paralegal and I am waiting on the lawyer she works for to get to work. I am going to try and go meet with him this morning and show him what I have and see where to go from there. Worst case scenario I will go to the court and file a civil suit against him today


----------



## LetAGrlShowU

Bird, dont wait on your paralegal friend. Most equine lawyers dont necessarily have paralegal's because they arent large enough practices. What do they specialize in? You need a specific lawyer. 

I still dont understand how what the guy said mattered. What did the cop say when he re-read the letter, and did he ask h im about the address issue? I am starting to feel a bit duped in some of this. 

You wont take off work, your waiting for a paralegal friend, the cop read the black and white print but believed some guy.... all a little hard to swallow. If you truly want this resolve, you dont wait, you be a go getter and get this settled.


----------



## Allison Finch

Kayella said:


> Seriously, who cares if she called the cop an idiot? I don't see why everyone is taking it so personal and keeping the thread off track.
> 
> Let us know how tonight goes for your colt, OP


It's not really about her calling the cop names, as much as it is the fact that she is demanding him to do something outside of his jurisdiction. 

I will no longer try to caoch people what is civil and what is criminal law. There is no one so blind as those who will not see. Many people here watch too much TV. No, CSI is not real....no, we cannot go up to drug dealers on the street and search them for the drugs we pretty much know they have......no. we cannot enforce civil law. 

Are there cops who make poor decisions? Of course. How can you say they are not allowed to be human? That is unreasonable. We are held to a higher standard, for sure, and that is OK. But to say that we are not allowed any human emotion. Well, whatever.

Every state has a slightly different interpretation of the laws of the land. It will be up to the OP to discover these facts and take appropriate action. 

What all of this diversion may allow, is some insight into how the OP may have conducted herself at the scene. Yes, it may have been a bit different than she claims, I have no idea and neither does anyone else here. I know I wouldn't admit to having been a pain, after the fact. And yes, this may change how the officer treated her. The fact that one of the officers had to tell her to "be quiet" (changed from her having initially saying he told her to "shut up") speaks volumes to me.

Back to the pending civil action.


----------



## Allison Finch

OP, I am not saying that you are in any way wrong in the facts that you presented here. I think that the BO is an unscrupulous jerk who needs to get hit as hard as you can in court.

The letter he "sent" you is great evidence. Line up your vet and farrier for witnesses. Get all your evidence printed out, assorted in chronological order and sue the jerk. 

As for my statement above about the demeanor at the scene....suffice it to say if I had been in your situation, I would have shown my tail a bit, too.

Check out your state's laws about damages. Some states only protect property so much. Some offer treble damages in some situations. Check it out with a lawyer ASAP. 

I hope you are able to make this man's life miserable and OH so much poorer. Make him rue the day he decided to pull this poo on you. 

Good luck!!


----------



## wyominggrandma

I myself am beginning to wonder what is going on ... This has been going on for a couple of days now, the OP won't take off work, she is always waiting for calls and help from others.
I hate that she keeps calling the officer stupid. A law officer can only do what the LAW allows him to do, nothing more.......... If its civil, its civil and just because the OP wants him to do more.
I am truthfully beginning to wonder a bit about the letter also. What exactly is the wording in it?
I would have been contacting a lawyer the day that I was unable to bring the foal home after paying, THE NEXT DAY. Before the BO had a chance to move the foal.
Something is just not right.


----------



## calicokatt

I think that her best shot at getting in to see a lawyer TODAY is to go with the one her friend works for. Last time I needed a lawyer, their schedules were very busy and getting in right away was difficult, if not impossible. It also makes more sense to me to go in to work, one can always leave if one can get an appointment to see animal control or a lawyer, and that way they are earning the money to pay the lawyer. There's no point in taking off work if you can make the necessary phone calls while you're there.


----------



## wyominggrandma

I am no trying to be nasty. I am just amazed that the OP has not done anything but try to get the police to do something they can't and then waiting on calls from friends. 
She needs to physically get out there and find someone to help. Phone calls do nothing, they get passed between person to person until the message gets forgotten. Animal control, lawyers CAN"T just pass of a human standing in front of them
Take everything you have, every photo, document, vet record, etc and get into an office today. Don't wait for the vet and farrier to write something, go to them and hand them a paper to write on for a statement. 
You are going to have to quit waiting on friends and phone calls and get out there and do something instead of talking about doing something.


----------



## ThirteenAcres

I have to agree. Halfway into this threa it got a little old that none of the advice given has been taken. I would have called a lawyer the moment I saw impending trouble. I would have scrounge for every piece of paper evidence, texts, emails, anything to go against this guy.

I understand work is important, but sometimes you need to take a personal day and get things done ASAP. It is now 11 am and I know most lawyers are open super early, and lawyers want that $$ so I can't understand why one wouldn't have taken the OP's call 

I feel that the longer waited, the smaller the chance at ever seeing that colt again ticks away. 

I think having a friend call about boarding or buying a horse is a great idea. Heck, messag me his # and I'll call inquiring about horses he has for sale. You said he was a trader. Maybe he'd be dumb enough to mention a colt.


----------



## chandra1313

Wow people some of you should relax geez. I think most of the population believes if you take your proof to a officer that they will enforce some kind of justice. It would appear this is not the case. It takes time to get in to see a lawyer, most lawyers have court in the mornings and you get in to see them in the afternoon. I wouldn't take off work until I knew for sure that I was going to be seeing the lawyer or animal control, you have to have money to pay a lawyer. She left that night to get the money for the two horses came back and was told only one horse could leave, she didn't have her copy of the letter, went to the post office got her copy and took it to police station then went back out to find out he had already sold it (highly doubt) so now she has to go through a legal process this takes some time.

Please keep us updated Bird.


----------



## churumbeque

calicokatt said:


> I think that her best shot at getting in to see a lawyer TODAY is to go with the one her friend works for. Last time I needed a lawyer, their schedules were very busy and getting in right away was difficult, if not impossible. It also makes more sense to me to go in to work, one can always leave if one can get an appointment to see animal control or a lawyer, and that way they are earning the money to pay the lawyer. There's no point in taking off work if you can make the necessary phone calls while you're there.


Yes and you need to work to pay the board and lawyer bills. If people took off work for stuff like this they may not have a job for long.


----------



## franknbeans

OP-I am also going to go with the crowd and AGAIN reiterate that you need an EQUINE lawyer. Not just any lawyer who does other things. There are specific laws, and equine ones will know them off the top of their head, and probably CARE a whole lot more than a general practice one, or whatever. I would doubt that, IF your story is true, and you have all the evidence you do, there would be an Equine practitioner who would not meet with you TODAY , given the fact that a baby has been seperated from its mom. That to me, can make it seem somewhat urgent, along with the fact that this slimeball has hidden the foal from you. I am hoping that the fact that you are updating here less means you are out doing something.

I also understand work, and the need to be there......but perhaps your boss would at least let me make some calls and arrange a meeting for later? THis needs to be done if you ever want to see your colt again.


----------



## LetAGrlShowU

chandra1313 said:


> Wow people some of you should relax geez. I think most of the population believes if you take your proof to a officer that they will enforce some kind of justice. It would appear this is not the case. It takes time to get in to see a lawyer, most lawyers have court in the mornings and you get in to see them in the afternoon. I wouldn't take off work until I knew for sure that I was going to be seeing the lawyer or animal control, you have to have money to pay a lawyer. She left that night to get the money for the two horses came back and was told only one horse could leave, she didn't have her copy of the letter, went to the post office got her copy and took it to police station then went back out to find out he had already sold it (highly doubt) so now she has to go through a legal process this takes some time.
> 
> Please keep us updated Bird.


Chandra, I dont think we're being out of line at all. As a matter of fact, she said the cop actually had a copy of that certified letter BEFORE she went to the post office to retrieve it. Which is also strange because the mail would have been sent back marked 'undeliverable' if the adderss was indeed incorrect. 

Regardless of taking off work right away, there is no proactive behavior right now. I was hugely siding with the OP until her words began to hold less meaning. Saying the officer doesnt believe her vs. telling us What the officer said to back him up would show more truth in the words. The vague description of what is going on in the evenings is right in line with a lie. I really dont want this to be the case, but the OP certainly isnt providing any reason to believe everything right now. I believe there is truth in there somewhere, just not sure where.


----------



## ThatDraftGirl

Some people cannot take work off. I know I got fired once for NEEDING the day off to take care of an animal issue, and when my boss didn't like it, they fired me and said they needed me to be more reliable than calling in the morning before work and saying I couldn't make it. She may have to wait until her lunch break to go to the lawyer, and she may have to wait til after work to go get her colt. 

And she said she waiting for the lawyer to get into his office and then she was going to talk to him. A lot of people are also afraid of animal control because they think animal control will just take their animals away. 

Whatever is going on, I hope there is a positive outcome.


----------



## ThatDraftGirl

The OP also seems young, so she may be scared and inexperienced and not sure how to handle the situation on her own. Getting advice from people online is a lot different than having another older horse person with you who knows what they are doing.


----------



## wyominggrandma

Law officers can only do what they are allowed to do. You can badmouth a cop all you want, but they have laws also. 
As far as the letter, I am confused. If a certified letter is sent, a signature has to be done. If the address is wrong, the letter would have been returned to the sender, not set at the post office for almost a week. The officer had a copy of the letter, yet the OP did not? Doesn't that seem a big strange to anyone? If indeed it said that on payment, both horses belonged to the OP, then the officer, or stupid officer as some of you are fondly saying, would have let her take both horses at the time of payment. Something is wrong.
If you have a vehicle at an impound yard and want to retrieve it, you pay the bill and pick it up.If you say you owe less and a letter/bill says you have to pay this amount, to get it released, even with an officer present, you HAVE to pay the bill. End of discussion.
If you have proof of the foal belonging to you, if the letter states that she gets BOTH for the price quoted, if you have paperwork from vet about shots, photos, messages, then the officer can do something, unless there are questions.Obviously there are questions not being answered. The officer just didn't decide to be mean. Something is going on here that doesn't make sense. 
Yes, you have to work to pay bills. No doubt. However, if my boss knew I had a foal stolen from me, which is what is basically being said, and I wanted to get to a lawyer, then I imagine most bosses would be willing to work something out. Take a sick day. If one day off will make it so you can't pay your bills, you are in financial trouble anyway.
I am sorry that this is happening to the OP, but when you have been around as long as I have, dealt with all things good and bad, you HAVE to be pro active immediately, not spend all day at work posting on the internet and making phone calls. You have to make a "in person" appearence to get the ball rolling. Not procrastinate.......
The OP is not taking advice from the people who are trying to help, she is taking advice from the ones who are feeling sorry for her also.
Go out and get something done in person. Remember this has been going on for at least two days now, even the most cold hearted boss would not want a foal to be stolen. Better yet, if she is young, depending on how young, then she needs an adult to help, not internet advice.


----------



## BarrelracingArabian

Im shocked you are waiting you say the foal is still nursing but you are waiting aroumd for others while that foal is going longer and longer without mom. Get your butt in gear and do what these people have been telling you or you might have one sick foal once you get him back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Speed Racer

BarrelracingArabian said:


> Im shocked you are waiting you say the foal is still nursing but you are waiting aroumd for others while that foal is going longer and longer without mom. Get your butt in gear and do what these people have been telling you or you might have one sick foal once you get him back.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


BRA, he's 3 months old, not 3 weeks. Many foals are weaned at 3 months. He's not going to die without his mother, which has been told to the OP more than once.


----------



## muumi

Lets just reserve our judgement of the OP for now... whatever is going on, I am in no doubt that she is terribly stressed and frantic. I am sure she gets the message about the lawyer by now, if she doesn't there is nothing anyone here can say to change that anyway, so maybe we can keep this thread supportive? Until at least that we know more, for better or worse. (we may never know everything anyway)

Like franknbeans said, her absence on here probably means she has gotten hold of a professional... so lets just be caring and supportive, and hope for the best in this situation.


----------



## BarrelracingArabian

SR- sorry i didn't catch his age she threw me off with the " still nursing" posts . However she still seems to be all too willing to sit on her behind while others do it for her I'd be doing everything possible if this happened to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## chandra1313

If they messed her address up by putting their street name on her address then who is to say they didn't mess up the return address. Kentucky is a very pro equine state but in my town I've never run across a equine lawyer, I'm sure they have them just not in my town, I even did a search on the internet to see if I could easily find one in my town and none came up. Now if I drove up to Lexington I'm sure I would find one ;-) 

I think if all this happened to me I would be a little gun shy about how this could turn out for the best. 

When it comes to animals it is very strange but so many people I meet are absolute crooks about stuff, it's like they put their morals away when they are dealing with animals. 

Keeping my fingers crossed ;-)


----------



## Allison Finch

Her absence is probably because she started another thread about this situation (where she didn't badmouth anyone...yet). She is likely hanging there.

Sadly, a lawyer may not be that much help, other than advice. In NC at least, small claims is a lawyerless court. No lawyers allowed. It is just between litigants who present their FACTS and the judge decides the outcome.


----------



## bird3220

I left work at 9:20 am after making a few phone calls and nothing happening. I have been to the court house, the jp's office, and now I am 30 miles away at the county courthouse. I have spoken to both civil and criminal DA's and I am drafting a petition and request for a temp. restraining order. Please DO NOT tell me or accuse me of not doing everything I can for my horses. I followed exactly what the law told me to do for 2 days and it got me no where. 

As far as everyone saying anything about paying the board. Go read the whole thread. I gave the BO his money Tuesday night and he still denied me my colt and the wonderful police officer allowed him to do so. So then when I returned again yesterday with the "agreement" my colt was gone. 

Please get off my back if you have not read this whole thing. There is absolutely NOTHING I will not do to get my horse back to his mother so he can nurse. I have been more than understanding with the negative comments and I truly believe everyone has a right to your opinion, but DO NOT judge me or this situation until you start from page 1 of this thread and read it all the way through!!!!!


----------



## Speed Racer

On what grounds are you asking for a restraining order? He hasn't come on your property, nor has he threatened you with physical harm.

Oh, and a restraining order will NOT get your foal back. Its _only_ intention is to keep someone from having contact with you physically, and keep them a certain amount of space geographically from you. 

A court order is the only thing that will get the foal returned to you, which you can't get from the DA.


----------



## Calming Melody

The DA can determine if anything the guy did was illegal ....She paid him the money he asked for but yet kept the colt and IMO that could be considered theft . I would try and get charges pressed on him . I think you are doing a good job and trying your hardest , but I am unsure as to why you are getting the restraining order??


----------



## kait18

restraining order i would assume relating to how close he can be to her foal... 

and without the help of the DA or any attorney figure she will get no where. so atleast she is talking to people and getting advice on how to handle the situation. you should have been a lawyer or something sr you are very quick on the remarks and pick up little things, you would have excelled as a lawyer!!


----------



## LetAGrlShowU

I'm not sure if one of my other questions was missed or is irrelavant but what happend to the other 2 mares and filly you had on property? Did he ask you to pay for them as well?


----------



## kait18

LetAGrlShowU said:


> I'm not sure if one of my other questions was missed or is irrelavant but what happend to the other 2 mares and filly you had on property? Did he ask you to pay for them as well?


they arent hers... they are the guys she only mentioned them because the other foal is about the same age as hers and she thought the mare would allow her foal to nurse from her while his mom was taking..


----------



## redpony

Actually there are several types of restraining orders, not just the most commonly heard of physical restraint type
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LetAGrlShowU

Thank you, sorry that I missed that.


----------



## Speed Racer

kait18 said:


> restraining order i would assume relating to how close he can be to her foal...


No Kait, a restraining order is for her person and property, nothing else. 

Since the BO still has possession of the foal, a restraining order does nothing to return it to her.

I worked for many years with attorneys, one of them a Maryland State's Attorney. Add to that, I dated several police officers over the years as well as being friends with many more. I know a little bit more about the law than is probably necessary for my sanity! :wink:


----------



## bird3220

I have spoken to 4 lawyers today, I have spoken to 3 DA's, I have spoken to a constable, and the JP clerks and the judge at the JP's office. I have taken the advice that has been given to me and i am going to file a petition for immediate possession of my colt right now. Please do not accuse me of not doing everything I can for him


----------



## bird3220

i am doing what the DA told me to and that is file a petition for a restraining order for custody due to potential irreparable harm to my colt. I'm done explaining. I will let you know when I have him back


----------



## Calming Melody

Speed Racer said:


> No Kait, a restraining order is for her person and property, nothing else.
> 
> Since the BO still has possession of the foal, a restraining order does nothing to return it to her.
> 
> I worked for many years with attorneys, one of them a Maryland State's Attorney. Add to that, I dated several police over the years as well as being friends with many more. I know a little bit more about the law than is probably necessary for my sanity! :wink:


 you say a restraining order is for her and property and the colt is her property so I guess than it would make sense


----------



## Calming Melody

bird3220 said:


> i am doing what the DA told me to and that is file a petition for a restraining order for custody due to potential irreparable harm to my colt. I'm done explaining. I will let you know when I have him back


 Ok I get it now ...is the DA talking about possible charges ?


----------



## kait18

Speed Racer said:


> No Kait, a restraining order is for her person and property, nothing else.
> 
> Since the BO still has possession of the foal, a restraining order does nothing to return it to her.
> 
> I worked for many years with attorneys, one of them a Maryland State's Attorney. Add to that, I dated several police officers over the years as well as being friends with many more. I know a little bit more about the law than is probably necessary for my sanity! :wink:


i am not saying it would get it back to her but it would force him to stay away from the foal since the letter he sent shows proof he considered it her horse. therefore it is her property and the restraining order then applies. just the way i thought of it applying.


----------



## Calming Melody

bird3220 said:


> i am doing what the DA told me to and that is file a petition for a restraining order for custody due to potential irreparable harm to my colt. I'm done explaining. I will let you know when I have him back


Ok I get it now ...is the DA talking about possible charges ?


----------



## wyominggrandma

I would love to actually see the certified letter that she states she has. Would love to read it word for word and see exactly what it says.
I'm sorry, but if you have a letter that states " you pay this much and you get back both the mare and foal" then something is truly wrong that nothing is being done to return the foal. Wording is off, letter is not being understood by OP, something is not right.
Restraining orders will keep him from bugging her or her from bugging the BO, but will do nothing to get the foal back. Actually it will make it harder for her to get close to the property, she will not be able to even go to the barn with or without a police officer.
I have read every part of this thread and her other thread. She has yet to produce the letter she is talking about, not copied it or showed it to any of us, just keeps talking about it.Please scan the letter for all of us to see.
I just think we are not getting the full story. If the letter says what the OP says, she has paid the money in full, which she says she has, then there would be no reason for the BO to be allowed to keep the foal, that would be harboring stolen propertyas the foal would be hers. I keep saying, something is not right in all this, there is something missing to the story. Sorry, not going to say anything bad about the police, something is not being said. If its is indeed true, then the officer would be letting a known criminal act happen. Hmm, not likely.


----------



## Speed Racer

Calming, the _legal_ ownership of the foal has yet to be established. 

Both the OP and BO say the foal belongs to them, and since the BO is in possession of it at the moment the OP will need a court order requiring the return of her property, which means a lawsuit has to be filed. 

If the lawsuit has a favorable outcome for the OP, _then_ the foal can be returned to her. There simply is no getting around the requirements of the law. Yes, it stinks for people being screwed over, but neither the DA nor the police can overstep their boundaries. They're restricted legally to what they can and can't do.


----------



## wyominggrandma

I am glad you are doing something. How long will it take to get the papeword done and served to the BO? 
I hope this all works out for you.


----------



## muumi

Please don't feel like you need to explain yourself to any of us! Just keep on doing what you need to do!
Lots of hugs!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Calming Melody

But doesn't the letter he sent her not prove that the colt is hers???


----------



## Speed Racer

None of us know what the letter states, as we haven't seen it. We have only the OP's version of events. There are two sides to every story, and the one telling their side is of course going to spin it to their advantage.

I'm trying not to take sides, but there are some major discrepancies in the OP's story. I want to believe that she's been done wrong and it will all come right once the courts are involved, but there are certain things that have definitely given me pause.

I've seen and experienced too much over the years to have a knee-jerk reaction in favor of one party or another, especially since we're only hearing one side.


----------



## wyominggrandma

Except nobody has actually seen the letter and the officer had a copy of the letter in his hand the first night, she did not. She paid what the letter said and was allowed to take the mare and not the foal.
So, that is one reason we are all wondering why she was not allowed the foal if the letter indeed stated what she says it does.
Sorta curious, huh?


----------



## Jewelsb

bird3220 said:


> i am doing what the DA told me to and that is file a petition for a restraining order for custody due to potential irreparable harm to my colt. I'm done explaining. I will let you know when I have him back


No need to explain yourself. Some on here actually believe you and have read the entire thread. No need to answer irrelevant questions either. Just focus on you and getting your colt back. Please do let us know how it goes though!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## muumi

Ok we get it, some people are skeptical. Thats cool and fair enough. Can we move on now?
No need to keep on repeating it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wyominggrandma

I have read every post on BOTH threads the OP has made, so have the majority of the posters to these TWO threads. It just seems that the OP hasn't been happy with some of the things being posted, along with posters who obvioiusly don't understand law, the courts and how things happen in day to day civil court.


----------



## Speed Racer

Jewelsb said:


> No need to explain yourself. Some on here actually believe you and have read the entire thread. No need to answer irrelevant questions either. Just focus on you and getting your colt back. Please do let us know how it goes though!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Some of us don't blindly believe everything we're told, especially if what we're told has some fairly glaring discrepancies.

Naivete is only charming in small children.


----------



## crimsonsky

Speed Racer said:


> Naivete is only charming in small children.


and sometimes not even then...


----------



## Roperchick

i dont see how its helpful to the OP to have everybody keep riding her about what she does or does not know about the law. based on what ive read and ive read entirely through both threads shes in her rights. now whether thats the full story or not isnt really relevant right now. what *IS* relevant is getting her colt back to her safely.

do you honestly expect her to be calm cool and collected just biding her time at the library reading up on common law practice?! NO! this is a very stressful situation that shes never been in before so yeah maybe she doesnt know everything she needs to know about it but she obviously in the process of getting things done. 
shes making steps to go at this legally and in court so what does it matter whether she isnt a subject matter expert on this?? i sure as heck aint and im reading the posts of others and learning as i go. as im sure she is


so can we please just stop riding her about the technicalities of her legal standing and work on being supportive and informative (in a constructive helpful way not a scornful maybe rude manner) and pray that she just gets her baby back safe???


OP im praying for you and your baby boy to get reunited quickly!


----------



## Speed Racer

Y'all can sit around and coo over the OP and sing Kumbaya and tell her that everything she says is right and peachy-keen, while ignoring the facts. Still doesn't mean the courts and the law are going to see it her way.

She uses wrong terminology, states that the police told her things they never would, said the BO never sent the letter, oops, I mean he sent it to the wrong addy, but amazingly there it was at the post office. 

Stated that the BO gave the police officer money to give back to her, which no matter what the rest of you want to believe, is most certainly _not_ true. The police do NOT get involved, especially when it comes to money changing hands. No officer who values his job would have put himself in the middle as a go between, not even a 'stupid' one. 

She states the DA is going to get a restraining order written up and a judge is going to sign it, which means she'll get the foal back. Um no, restraining orders do NOT return property. Only court orders to that, and only _after_ there has been a hearing and ownership established.

So yes, please keep slobbing sympathy all over the OP, while ignoring the glaring problems that anyone who really HAS been following these threads has noticed.

OP, I hope for your sake that IF you're telling the truth, you get the foal back. If you're just playing all these people for fools, which I'm beginning to suspect, then I _really_ hope you get what's coming to you.


----------



## TimberRidgeRanch

I am thinking BIRD meant a Take possession order to be signed by a judge if so then the order goes to sheriff department and the sheriff and her go and get her property. No lock gate goes against a court order. Normal routine is Sheriff hands BO copy of said Court order the BO has to hand over property if he is not there when sheriff arrives he leaves a notice to contact him If BO does not contact sheriff no lock gate is going to stop sheriff from entering property to seize BIRDs colt. If thats what shes looking to have signed.

TRR


----------



## TimberRidgeRanch

Its as simple as that if this is what is truely going on and all that she has stated is true then its doesnt get anymore simpler then that other then to go to court. which even after a Take possession order is signed its not over yet you still have to go to court.

TRR


----------



## wyominggrandma

yes, but she still has to prove without a shadow of a doubt the foal belongs to her.. no judge or DA will try to get a take possesssion order on just her word, she has to have proof.
I have read and reread all the posts.. Just one question comes to mind.. If the OP did not have the "letter" in her possession, how did the police officer happen to have one when they approached the Bo for payment and return of mare and foal? Am I the only one questioning that?


----------



## kait18

wyominggrandma said:


> yes, but she still has to prove without a shadow of a doubt the foal belongs to her.. no judge or DA will try to get a take possesssion order on just her word, she has to have proof.
> I have read and reread all the posts.. Just one question comes to mind.. If the OP did not have the "letter" in her possession, how did the police officer happen to have one when they approached the Bo for payment and return of mare and foal? Am I the only one questioning that?


she said the owner had a copy of the letter at that time and officer wouldnt show her the letter and only told her it was a civil matter and i think something along the lines of just pay him or something.....after she got the mare then she went to post office and searched there for the letter where she then found her copy

i am not picking sides yet..just pointing out what she has stated already


----------



## TimberRidgeRanch

Heck Im too tired to go back and reread all the posts lol. 

TRR


----------



## muumi

I understood it was the BO's copy of the letter that the police officer was given by the BO to read.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians

Speed Racer said:


> Y'all can sit around and coo over the OP and sing Kumbaya and tell her that everything she says is right and peachy-keen, while ignoring the facts. Still doesn't mean the courts and the law are going to see it her way.
> 
> She uses wrong terminology, states that the police told her things they never would, said the BO never sent the letter, oops, I mean he sent it to the wrong addy, but amazingly there it was at the post office.
> 
> Stated that the BO gave the police officer money to give back to her, which no matter what the rest of you want to believe, is most certainly _not_ true. The police do NOT get involved, especially when it comes to money changing hands. No officer who values his job would have put himself in the middle as a go between, not even a 'stupid' one.
> 
> She states the DA is going to get a restraining order written up and a judge is going to sign it, which means she'll get the foal back. Um no, restraining orders do NOT return property. Only court orders to that, and only _after_ there has been a hearing and ownership established.
> 
> So yes, please keep slobbing sympathy all over the OP, while ignoring the glaring problems that anyone who really HAS been following these threads has noticed.
> 
> OP, I hope for your sake that IF you're telling the truth, you get the foal back. If you're just playing all these people for fools, which I'm beginning to suspect, then I _really_ hope you get what's coming to you.


 
I'm having flags go up over some of the very things you're mentioning. However, having dealt with the public for 27 years and having experienced every kind of hysteria you can imagine over very heated civil disputes, I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt. It will all come out in the wash, either she's truthful or she's telling a very good fictional tale with some lacks in her law research. At this point, it can go either way. The business about the money also makes me perk up my ears, no way would I have EVER touched money from either side. HOWEVER, after I retired from my department in CA, I moved to OK, got bored and went to work for a local department. Some of the things I saw done there as a matter of course were diametrically opposed to what I had been taught in CA and I felt exposed me to HUGE liability, so I left that department and went back into retirement. The scenario she's painting could have happened exactly as she's describing it where I went to work, so ............ I have my doubts but my real life experience is keeping me neutral at this point.


----------



## Roperchick

Speed Racer said:


> Y'all can sit around and coo over the OP and sing Kumbaya and tell her that everything she says is right and peachy-keen, while ignoring the facts. Still doesn't mean the courts and the law are going to see it her way.
> 
> She uses wrong terminology, states that the police told her things they never would, said the BO never sent the letter, oops, I mean he sent it to the wrong addy, but amazingly there it was at the post office.
> 
> Stated that the BO gave the police officer money to give back to her, which no matter what the rest of you want to believe, is most certainly _not_ true. The police do NOT get involved, especially when it comes to money changing hands. No officer who values his job would have put himself in the middle as a go between, not even a 'stupid' one.
> 
> She states the DA is going to get a restraining order written up and a judge is going to sign it, which means she'll get the foal back. Um no, restraining orders do NOT return property. Only court orders to that, and only _after_ there has been a hearing and ownership established.
> 
> So yes, please keep slobbing sympathy all over the OP, while ignoring the glaring problems that anyone who really HAS been following these threads has noticed.
> 
> OP, I hope for your sake that IF you're telling the truth, you get the foal back. If you're just playing all these people for fools, which I'm beginning to suspect, then I _really_ hope you get what's coming to you.


so she uses wrong terminology....freaking sue her then! crap thats why she come on here asking for help...not for you to jump down her throat.


she corrected herself from saying she never got it to saying it had the wrong addy??? how is that lyin? she didnt know he sent it because it didnt go to her box but she had them look for it and they found it with the wrong address. 

nobody is trying to ignore the facts and insulting everybody thats trying to be helpful and supportive isnt really cool fyi.

i for one am not gonna keep grilling her about the facts on AN INTERNET FORUM when she has more pressing things to do like get this sorted out 

if people would quit wasting their time interrogating her and just let her get her crap done then maybe she would take the time to put the details in full down and completely explain the situation. not trying to defend herself when she has no need right now and have to keep reiterating facts that shes already put out.

just let her get the crap done and get the full details before you condemn her sheesh


----------



## wyominggrandma

None of this makes sense. If you know anything about the law, no police officer is going to just make a decison based on what he thinks. I believe the officer told her it was a civil matter, I have doubts the officer refused to let her see the letter that she herself had not seen, but knew before she got to the stable how much money she owed? 
Oh well, I as I said, I hope if everything is just as she says and a DA is writing a letter and the judge is going to sign it today, she thinks she will be able to get the foal before a court hearing on who actually owns the foal. I hope it works for her that way, it will be unusual if it does happen, but it could.
I would also suspect a judge signing a possession order will want the foal to be kept in a safe place until after court, since the OP could take mare and foal and hide, just as the BO says he has sold the foal... Maybe the mare and foal will have to be at a neutral barn until everything is settled, then both the OP and the BO can split the cost of board.
I don't know, it sure is an interesting read.


----------



## Calming Melody

How can people come on here and not be the person involved or even a witness to anthing that has went on and say what a cop would or would not do , what a letter should or should not say ....You weren't there so you can't assume to tell someone that what they are saying is not true ....good grief! I pray and hope that you get the colt soon ! I can't wait to see pics of the little one ! Everything will work out !!!


----------



## muumi

Yes, let's just give the OP the benefit of the doubt right now, and wait for updates to see how it turns out.
Its really no skin off our backs to just keep out of it, until we can see how its resolved.
Isn't 'innocent till proven guilty' a very important American ideal?

Anyway, I'm out of here until the OP updates.
Good luck to you OP, hope the colt gets back to his mommy very soon!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wyominggrandma

Wow Roperchick, starting to use a bit of cussing to make us all stay in line, eh?
Seems you are getting a bit onesided and starting to cuss and rant over advice and conversation and debate because some of the things being said are in fact a bit skeptical from the OP.
As everyone has stated, it will be great to get the foal back, but some things just seems a bit weird if you happen to know law or have experience in such things.
You sure don't need to rant at us, we have as much right to post as you do, but can sure do without the nasties from you.


----------



## kait18

wyominggrandma said:


> None of this makes sense. If you know anything about the law, no police officer is going to just make a decison based on what he thinks. I believe the officer told her it was a civil matter, I have doubts the officer refused to let her see the letter that she herself had not seen, but knew before she got to the stable how much money she owed?


 
are you sure you read the posts?? not trying to start anything but she new of the amount because he had called her to see if she recieved the letter which she told him she didnt and he then told her how much she owed... 

again not taking sides and yes alot of missing things to the story but i can understand gaps considering the craziness of a situation like this.


----------



## Roperchick

look at it from different angles.
1. if the BO knew that she was coming back the next day to either pay for the colt or to take him either way, why was he in such an all fired hurry to sell/hide the colt?
2. would the OP really be putting this much effort into going to court for all this with what evidence she thinks she may have if she didnt in fact own the colt?
3. how did the BO get away with selling the colt when they both have the letter stating that the OP owns and needs to pay for both animals? implying that he sold a horse that wasnt his? theft yes?
4. why would he put that she needs to pay for the colt as well in the letter if it was his? pretty sure he wouldnt be asking for money from her for HIS HORSE.

yes things dont add up but give her time to get the legal crap sorted out, get the colt home safe (if it is hers) and then give her time to post the details on here explaining the full situation and outcome.


to me the BO selling the colt the day that he would have to give it back is more shady then the small amount of details the OP has posted. and the fact taht he stated it was his all along but tried to charge her for him?


----------



## wyominggrandma

As I said, lots doesn't make much sense.
If the BO did actually sell the foal or is keeping it hidden and it indeed it belongs to the OP, then the BO will be in jail for horse theft and selling property that doesn't belong to him. 
Again, this will all be sorted out in court.


----------



## Roperchick

wyominggrandma said:


> Wow Roperchick, starting to use a bit of cussing to make us all stay in line, eh?
> Seems you are getting a bit onesided and starting to cuss and rant over advice and conversation and debate because some of the things being said are in fact a bit skeptical from the OP.
> As everyone has stated, it will be great to get the foal back, but some things just seems a bit weird if you happen to know law or have experience in such things.
> You sure don't need to rant at us, we have as much right to post as you do, but can sure do without the nasties from you.


 
i didnt cuss? im sorry if any language that i used insulted anybody. Im not telling you not to post and im not trying to rant. im just saying maybe give it some space and give her time to get everything straight.

i realize it was a heated post but i was kind of insulted by speed racers insinuation that were all just trying to coddle her. i realize it was my bad that i reacted that way and im not trying to be one sided

i realize things arent adding up and thats why i amended it in the next post

again i apoligize for any offensive language or unintended slight.


----------



## Critter sitter

*ya'll should be ashamed*

I would not be surprised if the OP never comes back to Update. She came her for support and a little advice and some are being VERY judgmental.

OP I really hope all works Out. Not everyone here is mean and judgemetal.. I pray for the safe retun of your Colt


----------



## wyominggrandma

she got plenty of support and advice until things starting getting a bit weird.
As said by many of us, we all hope she gets the foal back. Just because we ask questions doesn't mean we are judgemental, just questioning the facts as given.


----------



## Critter sitter

I did not name names.. but all facts are not here... I know if someone took one of my horses I would be seeing red and Not thinking straight. why not just be supportive if you want. and bug out if not..
Its not like she is on here begging for hand outs.. geeeees


----------



## wyominggrandma

Excuse me, please do not tell me or anyone to "bug out" if we are not doing things you don't like.


----------



## Ink

Yeesh people! Everyone just chill, count to ten, relax. Bickering amongst ourselves over weather we believe the OP is being 100% truthful or not isn't helping anyone. She's clearly taken legal action, if she's in the right the courts should help her out. Let's all just cool down and wait for an update.


----------



## Nitefeatherz

It makes total sense for the OP to not be on here posting if she is trying to work with attorneys, police and others. I know if I were in this situation I would only be signing on to save my sanity. I sure wouldn't be noting down every detail! 

I am getting the impression that some of the posters on here questioning the OP haven't read the entire thread. I understand it is long...but most of the questions being asked regarding the OP in reference to her integrity and honesty have been answered already.

I sincerely hope the OP gets her colt back! The BO sounds like he is a con artist.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wyominggrandma

Please refrain from saying that some of the posters have not read the whole thread. I get so tired when posters do that, just because we might question what we read, doesn't mean we don't read things.
Again, we all hope she gets her foal back. We all hope everything goes her way. Doesn't mean we can't ask questions or make comments since she did ask for help.


----------



## Nitefeatherz

I'm not saying that because people are questioning what they read but because there were answers given to the questions asked. Regardless at this point hopefully attorneys are involved and this will resolve.


----------



## waresbear

gothicangel69 said:


> Oh, and I would be careful about recording him. I know here you are not allowed to record someone unless they give consent. May want to look into your laws on that. I would also look into the stableman's lein laws, because you can get him there as well. I know here, before they can sell your horse, they have to send a certified letter to your last known address (which they didn't- wrong address), then they have to file for a lien. After so many days, they can then sell the horse at a public auction (not a private sale) and are only allowed to keep what they are owed, the rest is to be returned to you or given to a charity if the owner cannot be contacted after the set date. If he did indeed sell the colt, you can get him for theft, lieing to a police officer, falsifying documents, not following the lien law, and the cost of the colt, not to mention the money you paid for you mare as he did not go about the lien properly and there was not contract. Keep your feed and hay bills, and bring those to court with you, along with anything else that may prove your point.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just for the record, when recording a conversation, only one of the parties talking in the convo has to be aware it's being recorded, the other doesn't have to know. So if you are someone listening in on a phone call but not involved in it, it is illegal to record it, however if you are talking to someone on the phone & record it, it is legal but you know, the other person doesn't not have to know & it's still legal.


----------



## wyominggrandma

Sorry, that is not true in the US. Some states allow for recording between parties being recorded in secret, in some states your HAVE to acknowledge that a recording is being made.


----------



## equiniphile

waresbear said:


> Just for the record, when recording a conversation, only one of the parties talking in the convo has to be aware it's being recorded, the other doesn't have to know. So if you are someone listening in on a phone call but not involved in it, it is illegal to record it, however if you are talking to someone on the phone & record it, it is legal but you know, the other person doesn't not have to know & it's still legal.


 I'd be willing to bet laws are different from place to place regarding recording. For some reason, I thought that here you have to inform all parties on the line if you're recording a conversation.


----------



## waresbear

Might be, here in Canada & whereever that one case in the States was regarding that mom that set up a cheerleader murder, wasn't that Texas, not sure?


----------



## Nitefeatherz

The laws on whether both parties or only one party has to know vary from state to state. I'm pretty sure NY where I live is a one-party state but I'm not a lawyer and laws are different everywhere you go.


----------



## Calming Melody

In our state you have to tell the person that you are recording them by law...learned that from being in and out of court with my hubby's ex wife


----------



## churumbeque

Calming Melody said:


> How can people come on here and not be the person involved or even a witness to anthing that has went on and say what a cop would or would not do , what a letter should or should not say ....You weren't there so you can't assume to tell someone that what they are saying is not true ....good grief! I pray and hope that you get the colt soon ! I can't wait to see pics of the little one ! Everything will work out !!!


Agree and cops do stuff all the time that they are not supposed to do. 
Read the papers they do STUPID stuff all the time. LOL


----------



## churumbeque

Roperchick said:


> i didnt cuss? im sorry if any language that i used insulted anybody. Im not telling you not to post and im not trying to rant. im just saying maybe give it some space and give her time to get everything straight.
> 
> *i realize it was a heated post but i was kind of insulted by speed racers insinuation that were all just trying to coddle her.*


 She stated that she used to "date" a lot of cops. That statement explains a lot of her attitude towards life.


----------



## verona1016

Sorry, I couldn't read through all the latest posts because what this guy did is unspeakable and I get PO'd just reading about it and knowing that I can't do anything to help!

I hope you are able to track down your colt and get him back. Definitely get a lawyer; the police are right, they can't do anything at this point if the colt is not on the property. At the very least sue this guy for the board you paid him, the value of the colt, lawyer fees, etc. Chances are if he is hard up for cash and you offer to settle out of court he will be able to "magically" produce the colt for you.


----------



## chandra1313

I sure hope she post what happens, and if she doesn't thanks to all the haters on this post. I was really interested to hear how this played out. I'm pretty much the type to take people's word but have seen some shady dealings when it comes to horses, luckily my mom raised me on the nothing in life is free so I'm always suspicious if something is too good to be true ;-) 

There have also been reports in our state of people cutting tails off horses and even one where a person came out to test drive a horse and didn't come back basically stealing it, so this is very informative on the what you should do and what you shouldn't do.


----------



## franknbeans

wyominggrandma said:


> Please refrain from saying that some of the posters have not read the whole thread. I get so tired when posters do that, just because we might question what we read, doesn't mean we don't read things.
> Again, we all hope she gets her foal back. We all hope everything goes her way. Doesn't mean we can't ask questions or make comments since she did ask for help.


All due respect, but you have questioned at least 2 things that the OP has clearly stated previously. Others just beat me to telling you about it myself. You may want to reread some and answer your own questions. And no, I am not going back and quoting them.


----------



## waresbear

What I find very interesting, is how someone can say you owe board, send a backdated letter and then basically take your horse. You seem to have no recourse, no police help, no nothing, you are at the mercy of the BO basically. It's civil law, he/said, she/said, so what if your BO suddenly goes wingy and says you owe me such & such, & you already paid this months' board but they don't let you on their property? Lesson to all, board at a reputable barn, property, etc, not some acquaintance who could pull this crap.


----------



## franknbeans

I really think The OP is being honest. Is she upset and perhaps calling some thing a "restraining order" that is perhaps technically called something else? Sure. Is that understandable-yeah. I believe her. And, no, that is not "coddling", patronizing or any other name some of you may want to call it. The guy called her, told her she owed him $$. She then put it in gear to start moving her horses. SHe tried using the cops, which, BTW, I do believe they probably stood there, letter in hand, and saw her only take one horse, even tho the letter clearly said "Mare and foal", and used the names of both. 
I really do not care who agrees with me and who does not. I could not care less if she is using all the "legalease" properly. She is not a lawyer. I am a nurse. I do not criticize people who use medical terms incorrectly. I try and help them, and not criticize their use of vocabulary. Yeah, perhaps she could have said "restraining order or something like that...." but she didn't and it is not the end of the world. Quit picking her apart. I prefer to have SOME faith, until proven otherwise. God knows there are enough other threads here that make me want to slam my head on the desk-this is NOT one of them. She is trying.
Please keep us updated, OP.


----------



## chandra1313

waresbear said:


> What I find very interesting, is how someone can say you owe board, send a backdated letter and then basically take your horse. You seem to have no recourse, no police help, no nothing, you are at the mercy of the BO basically. It's civil law, he/said, she/said, so what if your BO suddenly goes wingy and says you owe me such & such, & you already paid this months' board but they don't let you on their property? Lesson to all, board at a reputable barn, property, etc, not some acquaintance who could pull this crap.


This is definately what interest me about this as well, get it in writing doesn't seem to hold water. In our state you have to file a lien against a person if you plan to confiscate something, you have to give notice and such and such but I can definately see how if you board with a less the reputable person a lot of things can happen before you can get to the bottom of the issue. 

There was a guy down our street and his horse was always getting out and the police always came here first because everyone knew we had horses, my husband would go out and get the horse and put it back where it came from. The same police officer would always come ;-) and down deep I think he knew it was never going to be ours but my husband was always more then happy to round it up. Probably after the 10th time the police officer started a investigation on someone's authority I don't know who, well the guy with the horse gave the horse to my husband the last time the horse got out he had, had enough and was probably worried about getting in trouble. I made my husband go down there 3 days later just to make sure he was giving us the horse in case he had givers remorse after the police left. I don't want someone coming back on me and getting in trouble, you just never know.


----------



## Silent one

Wow! I'm going to have to be sure if I post asking for advice that I get all my terminology EXACTLY correct. Else someone will surely be calling me a liar!

Chill people, I believe her. And it sure seems harsh to try to put more stress on someone who seems already stressed to the max. Kind of like shooting your own wounded.


----------



## bird3220

Hey speed racer..... ACTUALLY you are wrong. I don't have to show you proof of anything however as soon as my colt is back in my custody thanks to the papers the judge did sign today I'll be sure to send you a picture!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

I'm not worried about their negativity. I love my horses. I know the truth and I have my proof. People dogging me dot phase me after I've had my colt taken from me and seen the effects it has had on my mare. The ONLY thing that does matter to me is my horses are safe and healthy and I am doing my absolute best to achieve that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## equiniphile

Good to hear you'll have him back in your barn soon.


----------



## Calming Melody

Oh yay!!!!! When do you get him ! I am so happy for you!!!


----------



## bird3220

I have spent my day since 11 am at the court house. Because of the ownership issue the judge signed a temporary RESTRAINING order and order setting a hearing for temporary orders. I have some relief in knowing my colt can not be hidden from me anymore! I am not going to go into any further details with anyone as I have now filed in court against the BO. I do not care who does or does not believe me or the truth I have stated in my posts. I greatly appreciate all of the support. It has helped me get through the last 3 days!!! For those who don't believe me I'll be sure to show you photos of all of my proof just as soon as court hearings are over. I'm exhausted. Goodnight everyone!!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## churumbeque

Glad to hear. I would like to know where he stashed him and if he really did sell him. Hopefully that won't be an issue and this goes quickly


----------



## bird3220

I think legally it is in my best interest now to not go into details, but for everyone concerned and worried I know I will be able to sleep tonight because my boy is safe!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## gigem88

I hope it works out for you, keep us posted.


----------



## Critter sitter

Bird I am praying that everything goes quickly and smoothly getting the colt back. Hugs to you I know it has got to be really hard on both you and the mare
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Nitefeatherz

What a nightmare for the OP! I can't imagine I would be able to sleep either. Thank goodness that the legal system finally worked for you- I hope you get your little boy back and soon. 

I can imagine you would need a few years worth of therapy to be able to let your horses leave your sight from now on. I know I would!


----------



## Clayton Taffy

So happy for you!!! Not wanting to sound condescending, but I am proud of you. You held your own, you didn't back down, you knew what was right and you did the right thing.


----------



## redpony

^^^ ditto. I hope everything goes smoothly from here on out
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jewelsb

bird3220 said:


> Hey speed racer..... ACTUALLY you are wrong. I don't have to show you proof of anything however as soon as my colt is back in my custody thanks to the papers the judge did sign today I'll be sure to send you a picture!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh yey that's great news!!! I can't wait till you gave him back!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Sharpie

So, I read the first three and last two pages, skipped everything in the middle.

I am glad both your horses are safe and things are getting worked out, even if you weren't able to make the BO do it the easy way. I look forward to pictures!


----------



## bird3220

Im looking forward to being able to post pictures because it means this is all over.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JoesMom

So sorry you are enmeshed in the legal system. Having dealt with it a couple times due to problems my kids were thrust into I was totally amazed at how the wheels of justice work. Lots of smoke and mirrors to make the system work to prove ones innocence. The accuser never had to prove anything and the accused had to work like crazy to prove they didn't do anything wrong.

I have dealt with less than exemplary police officers who were lazy and incompetent. Most were very good at what they do.

You are right to not go into anymore detail on this forum until everything is worked out to your satisfaction. Hope you boy is home with you soon and the BO is up to his neck in fines and restitution fees for what he has done.


----------



## Roperchick

oooh glad everything worked out good! i hope you get him home soon and post pics! of baby that is...i dont care about the proof. as long as u got baby back


----------



## waresbear

Bird, this one's for you & your foal & his momma:wink:


----------



## bird3220

chandra1313 said:


> This is definately what interest me about this as well, get it in writing doesn't seem to hold water. In our state you have to file a lien against a person if you plan to confiscate something, you have to give notice and such and such but I can definately see how if you board with a less the reputable person a lot of things can happen before you can get to the bottom of the issue.
> 
> There was a guy down our street and his horse was always getting out and the police always came here first because everyone knew we had horses, my husband would go out and get the horse and put it back where it came from. The same police officer would always come ;-) and down deep I think he knew it was never going to be ours but my husband was always more then happy to round it up. Probably after the 10th time the police officer started a investigation on someone's authority I don't know who, well the guy with the horse gave the horse to my husband the last time the horse got out he had, had enough and was probably worried about getting in trouble. I made my husband go down there 3 days later just to make sure he was giving us the horse in case he had givers remorse after the police left. I don't want someone coming back on me and getting in trouble, you just never know.


The man is someone I have known over a year. I would take his wife to the grocery store to get groceries because her car broke down and he was out of the country working for a month. I would feed his 11 horses by myself when she didn't feel good or wasn't at home certain days. I would clean feed rooms and clean stalls, fill water barrels, bathe horses, and I did that because I appreciated him allowing my horses to stay there. My friends were free to go over there and hang out with the horses (including his horses), my nephews and neice have been there multiple times. My friends and I even sat over there one Sunday this spring and BBQ'd with him and his wife and talked horses the whole day. He did not and still does not have a lien, he has no proof of anything at all in writing. I however do and everyday I accumulate more.


----------



## Almond Joy

I just read all 39 pages. DEDICATION. Glad to hear he is on the right track to coming home. Good job.


----------



## Roperchick

Almond Joy that is more than dedication! thats like over achieving haha! imm proud of you!


----------



## AlexS

What happened to your filly? And did you own the mare she was born to? Does the barn owner still have them? 

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeding/new-babies-119485/#ixzz1yasHkEgZ


----------



## bird3220

Alexs, my colt is MIA at this point, but the BO was served with papers yesterday that contain requirements of my colt no longer being hidden from me and ensuring my colts safety until a hearing for temporary custody. The only person my colt is allowed to be released to is me. Yes, I owned my mare before he was born. 

Yesterday was a very rough day. My mare is having a very hard time. I received a phone call at about 3 on from my friend where I am keeping her until all of this is sorted out and she had jumped a fence and has some fairly bad cuts on her. The neighbor had found her down the road standing outside his pasture of horses. He called her and brought her back and tied her to a tree. He cleaned her up and then went back home. About an hour later he called again because she had broken the Bronc halter and was back down by his pasture again. She has cuts on her knees and flanks and little nicks and missing hair all over her body. She has a pretty ugly gash on her face from the halter but it's just the hide rubbed off and I've put meds on everything and spoken to a vet about helping ease her stress. Last night I sat outside with her for hours. I loved on her and let her graze and eat and drink water and just tried to show her she was ok and could calm down. I stayed at my friends house in the living room where only a window is separating us. I was up and down all night checking on her. She was completely relaxed and got some sleep. She stood right outside the window for the majority of the night and now she's grazing again. Today a fried of mine is bringing one of his horses to put with her and see if that will ease some of her loneliness. At this point it's all a waiting game on the court and judge. I've done everything I can and I just pray that I can get my colt back soon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jewelsb

Awe your poor mare. Im really glad you care for her so much. She sounds really lonely. I hope the temporary hearing happens very soon so you can get your colt back!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

It's set for the 29th, but if my colt is not returned to me the BO is ordered to feed and nurture him accordingly. I can send animal control to his property as soon as I verify he's back at the barn to do an investigation of negligence. the judge told me in cases like this he can't just award temporary custody without having both parties present, but he can order that he not be hidden from me or removed from the property or sold.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jewelsb

So you get to see the colt once it's back on his property? The 29th seems a little far off but it will come fast.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## chandra1313

The 29th seems so far away ;-( Please let us know how the hearing goes. This is such a tragedy, I know people will say the colt can be weaned from the mom but that should be your decision not someone else's. I hope all goes well.


----------



## redpony

The next week is sure to be very stressful for you. Please be sure to get a lot of rest AND exercise so you can be at your best when you need to be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AlexS

AlexS said:


> What happened to your filly? And did you own the mare she was born to? Does the barn owner still have them?
> 
> http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeding/new-babies-119485/#ixzz1yasHkEgZ


I know this thread is about your colt. I understand that he is still with the BO and you are going to court. 
But in the above link you said that you had a filly born around the same time as the colt. 
It was the filly and that mare I was asking about.


----------



## bird3220

The barn owner has a filly out there born 3 weeks after my colt
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jewelsb

So dyllon is your little colt that your trying to get back. That's the first pic I've seen of him (in the link above) he is adorable. Your mare has gorgeous coloring as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

Yes Dyllon is my little dun colt and my mare is Cheyenne. If u go to my profile on here u can see their pics.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

Yes that's my babies in that thread. Sorry, checking from my phone and missed the link.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## churumbeque

bird3220 said:


> I think legally it is in my best interest now to not go into details, but for everyone concerned and worried I know I will be able to sleep tonight because my boy is safe!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


this is where I get confused because it sounds like he's safe back in your handss but he is not 
so I am not sure why you would sleep well that night
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AlexS

bird3220 said:


> Yes that's my babies in that thread. Sorry, checking from my phone and missed the link.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



So where is the filly? This one:



bird3220 said:


> the filly


----------



## bird3220

She's at the barn. That's the BO's filly from te made in that picture.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AlexS

bird3220 said:


> She's at the barn. That's the BO's filly from te made in that picture.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Really? Because you claimed her as your own. Bolded in red and quoted from that thread. 




bird3220 said:


> Regardless, I am thankful for *my* two healthy babies!!!!
> 
> The new filly born this morning - Haven't picked a name just yet


----------



## AlexS

And again here



bird3220 said:


> Yes that's *my babies* in that thread. Sorry, checking from my phone and missed the link.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## muumi

Its probably a figure of speech, and uneccesary to pick apart.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AlexS

muumi said:


> Its probably a figure of speech, and uneccesary to pick apart.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't agree as she is in an ownership battle over her colt. It shows that she claims horses as her own when they are not. 
If that was known in court, it would show a pattern of behavior.


----------



## bird3220

My babies meaning my mare and my colt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

The filly was to compare how similar the two were with the mares being so completely different. Anywhere I stated my babies is in reference to my two, my mare, and my colt
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

If you read a little further in the thread you will see this...."That quickly turned to excitement when we saw that we now have 2 healthy babies after being worried for so long they would be lethal."

We meaning the BO's wife who fed with me that day....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

They had their healthy filly and I had my healthy colt. The pic of the filly was posted in my album Bc nobody could see the pics unless I did it that way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Roperchick

Gld that things are moving and youre getting it all sorted out.


----------



## AlexS

Hmmmm a thread titled 'my babies' with pictures of two foals, and now you are saying your babies are the mare and foal. 

I can see why you have an ownership dispute. 
Doesn't your post office routinely hang on to undeliverable mail, especially registered mail without returning it to sender?


----------



## Roperchick

AlexS said:


> Hmmmm a thread titled 'my babies' with pictures of two foals, and now you are saying your babies are the mare and foal.
> 
> I can see why you have an ownership dispute.
> Doesn't your post office routinely hang on to undeliverable mail, especially registered mail without returning it to sender?


 

i can see how it got confused. but if she was close to the BO and the BO wife and she was helping them take care of them then i can see where she would say We have new babies and would talk about handling the filly as well. its just a matter of perseption.

i think they did hold on to it? she said they dug around for an hour and found it?


----------



## ThatDraftGirl

It doesn't matter if she refered to the filly as "hers" when talking about the barn having two healthy babies. This thread is not about that. 

She does have a certified letter from the BO stating that the colt is hers. So, there shouldn't be any disputes.


----------



## AlexS

I think it is relevant as she is in a custody dispute over her colt. 
We are only hearing one side of the story here.


----------



## bird3220

The thread is titled "new babies" since you want to be technical and again I could careless about anyone being negative or anyone who doesn't believe me. The BO's wife addressed the letter wrong. And again once all this is over AlexS I am more than happy to Show any and everybody the truth. But even then I am sure someone is going to say its fake or made up. Thanks again to everyone who believes in me. I love MY BABIES and I won't stop fighting for MY BABIES!!!!!! Good day!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

The custody dispute is over a STOLEN colt not a perfectly healthy fully who is still being allowed to nurse on her mother. If you'd like to further discuss the fully please feel free to reply on the NEW BABIES thread.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## littleamy76

Bird3220, I understand what you are trying to say. Sometimes it's hard to explain a complicated matter using words typed over the internet. People tend to misconceive your words. The only people that fully know the story is you and everyone personally involved in this. I do hope you get your colt back safe and sound. Please keep us updated on what happens. By the way, if the BO doesn't return your colt like he's suppose to or what not, what will happen to him? Will he go to jail?


----------



## Jewelsb

I'm just surprised at just how many people on here want to make your life harder and just be completely rude. Seriously people lay off. Read the entire post and if you don't feel like it then don't feel the need to criticize. I'm sure if you read it all that ALL of your questions will be answered.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

If the BO doesn't do what he is supposed to he is violating a court order. I don't know what the consequences will be. All I can hope is my proof and his violations will bring my boy home sooner than later
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

This situation is beyon complicated. I had a great friendship with the BO and his wife before this. Or so I thought. I know regardless of all the negativity and doubt that God will allow the right decision to be made. I just want my colt to be healthy. That is all that matters. Whatever the court decides they decide but as long as he lives a happy and healthy life that is ABSOLUTELY ALL THAT MATTERS TO ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Roperchick

just hold your ground. and deal with the situation back home. an internet forum debate on whos right or wrong is definitely LESS pressing. we all can wait patiently for it to be done and then get the gossip.


----------



## bird3220

Before this I thought of these people as family, and I treated each and everyone of their horses as if they were mine. I was true and honest to them. I took his sick wife to the store multiple times when she needed groceries and he was at work when her car broke down. I fed their 10 horses by myself when he was out of the country working and she had dr's appts and couldn't be home in time. I unloaded pallets of feed and bales and bales of hay alone so she wouldn't have to do it when he was gone because she is not supposed to lift anything because she had cancer and has diabetes. I turned out his studs so that they could get exercise so she Wouldnt have to catch them alone and fight with them to return them to their stalls when they wanted to get to the mares. Don't act like you understand anything I am going through if you want to be negative because you have no idea what I am going through. I have stated multiple times that if the colt is not legally mine I just want him to be safe as healthy. I am hurt and I am heart broken that I thought of the BO and his wife could treat me like a "daughter" to them and do this. I promise it will be sweet sweet relief to prove anyone who doubts me wrong just as soon as this nightmare is over. That being said, once again, THANK YOU FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART TO EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES IN ME AND IS SUPPORTING ME THROUGH THIS!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jewelsb

I'm just happy that your keeping us updated and I will continue to watch this thread as long as you keep posting. I can't wait until this is resolved and I sincerely hope this guy has to be held accountable for all that he has put you and your horses through. Wishing you and your horses the very best!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

Thank you jewelsb!!!! I greatly appreciate
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## chandra1313

I have my uncle's horses at my place until get gets his fencing up. I refer to all the horses on my place as mine, I make the distinction when one of his horses is referred to. I don't go into detail about who's is who's otherwise I would start to sound like a parrot ;-) Once you feed and love on them they do feel like yours.

People need to be supportive, and who cares about the other person's side of the story, Bird came to the forum she joined for support and help, not the other person. Whatever happened to just taking something at face value.

Hang in there Bird.


----------



## waresbear

These people are takers, when you say friends, I say "Hah!" YOU helped the wife when she was sick, YOU chauffeured her around when her car broke down, YOU fed their horses, YOU took care of the stallions, YOU unloaded the feed....see where this is going? What did they do for you, besides invite you to a BBQ and let you keep the horses on their property for free, sure, free, HAH! Now you got burnt and know the takers & users type, avoid them like the plague. Mr BO User is gonna be surprised when he gets that court order I bet.


----------



## bird3220

Thanks Chandra! My mare healed my heart after my great grandma passed and all I want to do is bring her colt back and heal hers now. None of this negativity brings me down it just motivates me to rub it in their faces when I can show proof of my honesty!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

He was surprised. And they didn't invite me to a BBQ my roomie and I went and bought everything and went and hung out with them all day because we respected them and thought of them as family. They didn't do anything but have horse convo and free BBQ
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## littleamy76

I just don't understand why the BO would suddenly do this to you especially after every thing you've done to help them out. You had mentioned that his wife is sick, I wonder if maybe they might be having some financial issues seeing how he's asking for board now. He should of at least talked to you face to face about it, but some people handle stress in totally different ways. He probably thought it was just easier to do it through mail. Either way, I wish you and your babies the best of luck. (((Hugs))) Now if only I can find the subscribe button... lol


----------



## Critter sitter

Huge hugs to you bird. I have faith all will work out and dyllon will be home soon..


bird3220 said:


> Before this I thought of these people as family, and I treated each and everyone of their horses as if they were mine. I was true and honest to them. I took his sick wife to the store multiple times when she needed groceries and he was at work when her car broke down. I fed their 10 horses by myself when he was out of the country working and she had dr's appts and couldn't be home in time. I unloaded pallets of feed and bales and bales of hay alone so she wouldn't have to do it when he was gone because she is not supposed to lift anything because she had cancer and has diabetes. I turned out his studs so that they could get exercise so she Wouldnt have to catch them alone and fight with them to return them to their stalls when they wanted to get to the mares. Don't act like you understand anything I am going through if you want to be negative because you have no idea what I am going through. I have stated multiple times that if the colt is not legally mine I just want him to be safe as healthy. I am hurt and I am heart broken that I thought of the BO and his wife could treat me like a "daughter" to them and do this. I promise it will be sweet sweet relief to prove anyone who doubts me wrong just as soon as this nightmare is over. That being said, once again, THANK YOU FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART TO EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES IN ME AND IS SUPPORTING ME THROUGH THIS!!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## franknbeans

littleamy76 said:


> I just don't understand why the BO would suddenly do this to you especially after every thing you've done to help them out. You had mentioned that his wife is sick, I wonder if maybe they might be having some financial issues seeing how he's asking for board now. He should of at least talked to you face to face about it, but some people handle stress in totally different ways. He probably thought it was just easier to do it through mail. Either way, I wish you and your babies the best of luck. (((Hugs))) Now if only I can find the subscribe button... lol


I believe she already said they are having financial issues.

And, the little "thread tools" drop down is right under the page number at the top of the thread page. You shouldn't have to subscribe to a post you post on. But, you also do not need to post "subbing" to subscribe., like so many do.


----------



## Saddlebag

Too many posts - did she get her horses out of that place?


----------



## bird3220

Saddlebag I am now having to wait on the court system. I only have my mare in my possession at this point however there are court orders that are/aren't being violated at this point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JoesMom

Just a side note on certified letters. We sent one out and they try to deliver it. If it is not deliverable they leave a message at that address and wait five days then they do it again. The recipient has 15 days to pick up the letter then it goes back to the sender. So, it takes about 20 days to have a letter not be deliverable and then go back to the sender. If you had just told him you never got a letter and let it go he would have gotten the letter back as proof it was undeliverable.


----------



## bird3220

That wouldn't help me get my colt back. The notice was left at the wrong address because his wife addressed it wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ray MacDonald

Good luck  An lots of huggs and prayers <3


----------



## bird3220

Thanks Ray
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Oldhorselady

Bird...I COMPLETELY understand that this happens. My former BO family felt like my family. We first leased horses there and then got our own horses. My teenage daughter and a couple other teenagers there, along with myself did a lot as far as chores that weren't expected since we paid for full board. We mucked stalls, turned over stalls, went hay shopping using all of our trucks, loaded hay into the barn, cleaned water tubs, cut the lawn, cut the pastures, fed horses, groomed horses that the owners never came out to see of their ticks and rainrot. We didn't get any money off of board. We did have wonderful bar-b-cues, were allowed to use their pool, went places together as a group and got to ride other horses to keep them exercised. We had a great bunch, until one big mouth came and swayed BO. I can't tell you why....she was young (even though BO had known her since she was a young girl), obviously rude and loud to all, including BO. Especially after I gave six months notice that I was moving across the country....things went down hill it seemed. BO's husband remained a great friend, even helped me load my moving truck etc. It moved on to the others after I left there and they all left too. I just can't understand. They were like family. I miss them but would never go back with that loudmouth.


----------



## bird3220

Thank you. This whole situation is just awful and I just want this nightmare to be over as soon as possible! It sucks to trust someone and invest time into a friendship and then all of this happen
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Roperchick

sometimes you just never know about people. theyll be your best friend one day then the next theyll turn. it happens to us all.

i hope you get all this resolved quickly. and ill sit here on my hands waiting "patiently" to hear the good news that little man is back with you.


----------



## bird3220

UPDATE...... Initial court date for "temporary custody" of Dyllon based on what is in the best interest of the colt is scheduled for Friday @ 9am. The BO was served court orders signed by the judge last Friday ordering what he can and can't do as well as what he must do until we go to court (including bringing my colt back and not selling him)!!!!! Friday was a rough day for my mare. She jumped the fence at the pasture and then broke a halter trying to get down the road to some other horses for company. She cut herself on some barbed wire on the fence and also has some other cuts on her legs and face. I spent the weekend with her doctoring her wounds and making sure she was settling into her new home and calming down. A friend of mine brought her two new friends so she won't be so lonely and she has been alot more calm and less stressed. 

The last 2 days I have been working on getting as educated as possible on what I can do as far as evidence for my court case. I have caught a few breaks ***fingers crossed :think:*** that are helping me gain access to certain things regarding the case. I am very hopeful at this point that I will get him back sooner than later, but this waiting on court stuff is very stressful. Sorry I can't give more details at this point, but I hope this helps for anyone interested in what's going on.


----------



## Critter sitter

I am Praying Bird and I just know all will be in your favor really soon


----------



## JoesMom

Thanks for the update.


----------



## mysticalhorse

Continuing to pray for you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## redpony

Stay strong bird. Hoping for you to get your baby back ASAP
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## chandra1313

Thanks for the update ;-) Keeping my fingers crossed for you on Friday.


----------



## Annanoel

Just read all 45 pages! WOW, I hope you get your colt back bird! Hugs to you and your mare. <3


----------



## Saddlebag

Hang in there, you've got a whole pile of people on your side even if in spirit only.


----------



## amp23

Annanoel, I also just read all 45 pages!! Bird, I'm glad you're starting to get your issues resolved, I couldn't even imagine being in your position! Praying it works out for you and that you get your baby back ASAP!


----------



## BarrelBunny

I, too, just read all 45 1/2 pages! I REALLY hope that you get your colt back!! Stay strong and don't loose hope! Hugs and prayers are sent your way!!


----------



## bird3220

Stayin strong is tough. I am so stressed about all of this. What hurts is when ppl say it's just a horse... Buy another one instead of spend all this money on a colt. It's not just about the colt. He's priceless to me, but this man stole from me!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## kitten_Val

bird3220 said:


> UPDATE...... Initial court date for "temporary custody" of Dyllon based on what is in the best interest of the colt is scheduled for Friday @ 9am. The BO was served court orders signed by the judge last Friday ordering what he can and can't do as well as what he must do until we go to court (including bringing my colt back and not selling him)!!!!! Friday was a rough day for my mare. She jumped the fence at the pasture and then broke a halter trying to get down the road to some other horses for company. She cut herself on some barbed wire on the fence and also has some other cuts on her legs and face. I spent the weekend with her doctoring her wounds and making sure she was settling into her new home and calming down. A friend of mine brought her two new friends so she won't be so lonely and she has been alot more calm and less stressed.
> 
> The last 2 days I have been working on getting as educated as possible on what I can do as far as evidence for my court case. I have caught a few breaks ***fingers crossed :think:*** that are helping me gain access to certain things regarding the case. I am very hopeful at this point that I will get him back sooner than later, but this waiting on court stuff is very stressful. Sorry I can't give more details at this point, but I hope this helps for anyone interested in what's going on.


Good luck in court! (my advise - stay as cool and calm as you can there (no screaming, finger pointing, crying, etc.) and just politely present everything to the judge. the better impression you make - the more "points" you'll get. If you can take some supportive family members or friends there - do it, it'll help you to be more confident.)

BTW, I didn't read through all pages, so... Did you find out what the guy did with the colt and where he keeps him?


----------



## bird3220

He now says he's back at the barn but I have yet to see him which is also a violation of te court order!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## kitten_Val

bird3220 said:


> He now says he's back at the barn


Well, it's definitely something! Hope you'll get him back soon.


----------



## ThatDraftGirl

Bird, thought you could use something to help you feel better... All of us here know how you feel about your horses! I saw this on Facebook...

"
From time to time people tell me, 'lighten up its just a horse' or 'thats a lot of money for just a horse.' they don't understand the distance traveled the time spent or the costs involved in 'just a horse.' Many hours have passed, my only company was 'just a horse' but I never once felt slighted. Some of my saddest moments have been brought about by 'just a horse' and in those days of darkness th...e gentle touch of 'just a horse' gave me comfort and reason to overcome the day. 'Just a horse brings into my life the very essence of friendship, trust and sure unbridled joy. 'Just a horse' brings out the compassion and patience that make me a better person. because of 'Just a horse' I will rise early and look longingly toward the future. For me and people like me its not 'Just a horse' but the embodiment of hope for the future, fond memories of the past and enjoyment of the moment. 'just a horse keeps me from being 'just a woman.' People say its 'just a horse,' they 'just' dont understand."


----------



## bird3220

Wednesday updates. I now have 3 videos of the pasture showing that Dyllon either wasn't there or was being hidden from me (violation of court orders)!!! I spoke with a supervisor at animal control this morning who told me that an officer went to the barn yesterday. She confirmed that there are 2 foals on the property and that one is locked in a stall in the barn. She also confirmed that the foal in the barn appears to be in good health (THANK GOD!!!!!!), and that they have pictures. I finally after 9 days have confirmation as to the location of my colt and that he is not in any immediate health dangers. Court date on Friday!!!!!!


----------



## bird3220

*thank you*



ThatDraftGirl said:


> Bird, thought you could use something to help you feel better... All of us here know how you feel about your horses! I saw this on Facebook...
> 
> "
> From time to time people tell me, 'lighten up its just a horse' or 'thats a lot of money for just a horse.' they don't understand the distance traveled the time spent or the costs involved in 'just a horse.' Many hours have passed, my only company was 'just a horse' but I never once felt slighted. Some of my saddest moments have been brought about by 'just a horse' and in those days of darkness th...e gentle touch of 'just a horse' gave me comfort and reason to overcome the day. 'Just a horse brings into my life the very essence of friendship, trust and sure unbridled joy. 'Just a horse' brings out the compassion and patience that make me a better person. because of 'Just a horse' I will rise early and look longingly toward the future. For me and people like me its not 'Just a horse' but the embodiment of hope for the future, fond memories of the past and enjoyment of the moment. 'just a horse keeps me from being 'just a woman.' People say its 'just a horse,' they 'just' dont understand."


 
Thank you for this!!!! You couldn't be more right!!!!


----------



## Jessabel

I haven't read all 40-some pages, so you'll have to forgive me.

I hope there's been a valuable lesson learned: NEVER do anything without a written agreement. Period.

I hope everything works out for you! What a nightmare. :-(


----------



## Jewelsb

So your supposed to be allowed to see your colt until Friday but keeping him locked up in the barn is against court orders since you can't see him???
Are you allowed on the property to see him or no?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

Not allowed on the property because its also the BO's house, so the colt is supposed to be visible to me and he hasn't been at all
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians

Are you taking pictures every time you go over there, #1 to show that he isn't visible and #2 taken from a vantage point that clearly shows you are not on the BO's property?


----------



## bird3220

Dream catcher - yes I am!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## churumbeque

bird3220 said:


> Not allowed on the property because its also the BO's house, so the colt is supposed to be visible to me and he hasn't been at all
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 He would be safer in a stall anyway so he doesn't go through the fence. If you get him back I would plan on weaning him and keep him away from the mare at this point for another month or so. She should be drying up and no reason to start stressing them again.


----------



## Tigo

Wow, what a nightmare! Good on you Bird for doing everything you can and taking the "high ground" by going through the courts, proceeding legally and not stooping to his level. I wish you the best of luck on Friday in court and that you get your baby back!!!


----------



## bird3220

Thank you Tigo
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Saddlebag

With all that is going on legally, perhaps it's best the colt is locked in a stall. I don't imagine the man wants any more trouble if the colt were to get hurt or loose. That would definitely be a violation of the court order plus he'd have the humane society down his neck.


----------



## Druydess

bird3220 said:


> Hey speed racer..... ACTUALLY you are wrong. I don't have to show you proof of anything however as soon as my colt is back in my custody thanks to the papers the judge did sign today I'll be sure to send you a picture!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good girl!! You keep giving them hell! Don't let him win. There are quite a few people here pulling for you.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians

bird3220 said:


> Dream catcher - yes I am!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
Good, that might stand you in good stead in court and come back to bite him in his.......wellllllllll! 

Have you been able to confirm at all that the colt is indeed on the property or is it all still a shell game with him playing "hide the colt" in a moving stall?


----------



## bird3220

Animal control confirmed yesterday that there is a foal in one of the stalls. They are preparing the report and I will hopefully have that today with pictures so I will be able to verify tht it's him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jewelsb

I bet he has been in that stall the entire time. Im so impatient for tomorrow to get here, so you can go to court and prove this man is dishonest and get dyllon back finally!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wetrain17

subbing


----------



## Cacowgirl

Hope the court goes in your favor & that you can get your cold back Real Soon! How is your mare doing? Has she dried up yet?


----------



## bird3220

Cacowgirl said:


> Hope the court goes in your favor & that you can get your cold back Real Soon! How is your mare doing? Has she dried up yet?


I have been milking her everyday and doctoring on her wounds (which are healing nicely) from last week. She has been much more comfortable at her new place this week. Since I have finally been able to get her off of the BO's property she's going to the vet Saturday to get her coggins and vaccines..... She's probably going to be a little mad with me after that, but it will hopefully all go well. COURT TOMORROW!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## NdAppy

Why are you milking her?


----------



## LovesMyDunnBoy

If you want her to dry up I wouldn't milk her, maybe just a little if she's in too much pain but not a lot of she'll just keep producing the milk. But maybe if you wanted the colt back on her when she's back I guess that would make sense? That's just what I was taught lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jewelsb

She's milking her I assume to keep her from drying up so her colt can still nurse. Some people dont like weaning them so young.


----------



## NdAppy

Unless she is out there milking her as often as the foal would be nursing all it is doing is delaying the drying up process/extending the agony that drying up can sometimes be.


----------



## apachiedragon

I agree with NdAppy, she is not doing the mare any favors by milking her, especially if it's only once a day or so. Horses don't work like cows. By the time she gets the colt back, he will already be weaned and its entirely likely the mare won't let him go back to nursing anyway, so she is just causing unnecessary discomfort for the mare.


----------



## RandysWifey

I've been following along-I hope you get him back tomorrow and teach that guy a lesson!


----------



## Druydess

Jewelsb said:


> She's milking her I assume to keep her from drying up so her colt can still nurse. Some people dont like weaning them so young.


If there is milk present and the foal returns to nursing soon, there's a good likelihood that the milk will respond again to the demand. Good ol' Oxytocin kicks in pretty quickly. It takes a while for milk to dry up. I also don't like weaning so young.


----------



## apachiedragon

Even if the colt WAS able to start nursing again, is it really worth it to put them through the weaning process twice? It's done, why cause both of them the stress of going through it again?


----------



## MN Tigerstripes

You may consider keeping the colt off the mare when you get him back. Three months is early, but it is done and probably isn't going to cause him any harm. On the other hand both the mare and colt have gone through the distress of weaning already, why put them through it again needlessly?


----------



## Druydess

apachiedragon said:


> Even if the colt WAS able to start nursing again, is it really worth it to put them through the weaning process twice? It's done, why cause both of them the stress of going through it again?


Personally, I would have to assess that on a case by case basis. Sometimes the psychological/emotional development would have a greater benefit to continue until a natural lack of interest/need occurs. For example, my older colt is extremely independent, huge, confident at 2 1/2 months, and could probably be weaned at 3 months, though I have no plans to do that. The younger colt is very clingy, unsure, and not as confident at the same developmental stage, therefore- I foresee a longer weaning period with him- more related to his emotional need than nutritional need. 

In any case, it's a moot point until the colt is returned and whether the OP even plans to do this. Good luck tomorrow!!


----------



## MN Tigerstripes

But THIS colt is already weaned. It's neither here nor there whether or not he is clingy/unsure/confident/whatever, it makes no difference at this point. The damage is done. Why compound it??


----------



## NdAppy

He's been weaned for what, a week and a half now? I could understand putting him back on her if it was a day or two, but not dang near two weeks. 

Bird I would really like to hear your reasoning behind milking the mare.  It's more just a curiosity thing than anything.


----------



## bird3220

I will take everyone's advice into consideration and do what is best for both my mare and my colt, but first things first...... I have to get him back in order for any of this to happen. I agree though that having him already weaned and then putting them back together and having to put them through the stress of weaning again is not the best thing. I absolutely don't want either one of them to go through the stress anymore at all, but until I have him back in my possession and am able to bring him home I can't say for sure what is the best for them


----------



## bird3220

I really do appreciate everyone taking the time to offer their advice and opinions. This situation flat out stinks and I am willing to listen to any and everybody who want to offer advice that is in the best interest of my mare and colt. We don't all have to agree, but as long as we all have their best interest at heart I know I can come up with the right way to bring them back together when the time comes!!!!!


----------



## bird3220

NdAppy said:


> He's been weaned for what, a week and a half now? I could understand putting him back on her if it was a day or two, but not dang near two weeks.
> 
> Bird I would really like to hear your reasoning behind milking the mare.  It's more just a curiosity thing than anything.


My court date is tomorrow, and I am hoping that if I get him back sooner than later I would be able to allow him to start nursing again and get the extra nutrition from my mare that most 3 month old foals receive. However, if the process takes longer than I hope I will stop and just let nature take its course at this point. Honestly I have just been doing it until tomorrow gets here and see what happens. Then I will reassess the situation and go from there.


----------



## Hunter65

Whew I just read ALL 50 pages - good thing I am at work. Wishing you all the luck tomorrow with your court date. Hope you have you colt home soon.


----------



## bird3220

I am waiting on the email from the city secretary for my animal control report..... this report has pictures and will be the first actual evidence of my colt that I have seen with my own eyes in a week and 2 days. Not gonna lie, I am very nervous right now. Geez, I miss my boy!!!!!


----------



## Critter sitter

:hug: I know it has got to be hard to wait!!! i'm crossing fingers and toes.. it will be and you will have him in no time


bird3220 said:


> I am waiting on the email from the city secretary for my animal control report..... this report has pictures and will be the first actual evidence of my colt that I have seen with my own eyes in a week and 2 days. Not gonna lie, I am very nervous right now. Geez, I miss my boy!!!!!


----------



## bird3220

I received the pictures from animal control..... It is him that is locked away in a stall on their property. He looks ok, but his muscle tone is down and he looks thinner in his shoulder, neck, and his butt. Hopefully that is just because he is growing up and not out....... but I know part of it is because of the stress of the last week. At least now I know for sure he's not on the verge of dying and now I can focus on this court date and the evidence proving he is mine.


----------



## Critter sitter

This is excellent news that you know where he is. I
Tomorrow is a huge day and I really hope the judge looks at your evidence and says he is yours and he needs to return him right now. Saying extra prayers tonight for you mama and baby
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Clayton Taffy

Hints for tomorrow. 

Listen to the judge!!
Talk only to the judge---- Very important!!!
Be mater of fact ...... Present Just The Facts
DO NOT TALK TO THE BO, AT ALL Don't even look at him.
Do not interupt.
Look only at the judge
Be calm, no emotion, Facts only

Good luck


----------



## bird3220

Thanks taffy!!!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians

Good luck! Ditto Taffy's advice. The more calm, cool, collected and businesslike YOU are the more of an AZZ the other guy will look.


----------



## Nitefeatherz

Have to agree on remaining cool, calm, and collected- you want to show that you don't fly off the handle easily. Also you won't present your case as well if you are upset or emotional- and I say that with prior experience in hand. The BO may say things with the goal of trying to upset you or make you angry. 

Good luck with your case this morning- I can't wait to see how things go. 



bird3220 said:


> It's not just about the colt. He's priceless to me, but this man stole from me!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree...and that makes me wonder if he has tried this before and succeeded? There are many people I know who would cave rather than go into a long legal battle...I bet he has tried this before successfully with other people and gotten away with it. He might have been betting that you wouldn't go this far- and then once there were cops and legal reports he had to follow through or face even more legal troubles. Lying to anyone with a badge is generally a really, really bad idea...


Personally I am wondering if the BO had "seller's remorse" of sorts due to his financial issues- maybe figuring he should have kept the mare until she had the foal to sell? Or maybe trying to be slick- saying you bought the mare, not the foal which hadn't been born yet? Or if he just saw opportunity knocking and grabbed it figuring you wouldn't go this far.

As much as you were good friends...people do stupid things sometimes even despite family ties or friendship. My uncle's family accused me of medical fraud- my cousin and I were in a car accident and I injured and possibly broke my neck. Needless to say he flew off the handle and accused me of medical fraud. It later turned out their car accident history was so bad they nearly couldn't get replacement car insurance when their existing policy dropped them. 

There has to be more to this situation that you aren't aware of...especially since his actions don't make much sense. If it isn't you holding back information (and I don't believe you are) then it stands to reason IMO that the BO is hiding something he doesn't want you to know about.


----------



## Critter sitter

Bird. First think I thought of waking up today. Is about ypu and dyllon . I'm praying for you. Your going to get him I just know it !!!! ((((((hugs)))))))
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Best of luck today!

Just goes to show it's hard to trust people these days.. even "friends"


----------



## Jewelsb

Thinking of you today! Best of luck at court today!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## mousemom

Good luck today, will be waiting for the good news.


----------



## wetrain17

Good luck today


----------



## RaiRaiNY

Good luck today!


----------



## amp23

Good luck today!


----------



## muumi

Best of luck for today! I am praying for you to have the calmness and serenity you will need to defeat this man... and I am hoping to finally hear some very good news for you, your mare and your little man!


----------



## Prinella

Good luck **** time differences. I thought I'd know by now!


----------



## EnglishGirl144

im hoping everything goes well!! its 9 a.m. so shes in court now!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ray MacDonald

The Best of Luck! Can't wait to hear an update


----------



## Nicole

Wow, I just read this entire thread. Good luck!!!


----------



## lucky2008

EnglishGirl144 said:


> im hoping everything goes well!! its 9 a.m. so shes in court now!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Depending on her location it might not be 9 yet, I live in minnesota and its 8:56

GOOD LUCK!!!


----------



## Hunter65

Best of luck. I hope we hear something before I leave work today. We are going to our property and have no internet there so I won't be able to check until Monday when we get back.


----------



## bird3220

Hey everyone...... Court was reset for July 12!!!!!! More waiting. Geeeeeeeeeeeeez!!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Critter sitter

WTF why?????????


----------



## bird3220

Judge is out of town!!!! I want to cry right now!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

One brick wall after another.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Critter sitter

bird3220 said:


> Judge is out of town!!!! I want to cry right now!!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 omg wow they set a date not knowing the judge was going out of town?? don't the realize a animals well being is a stake here? I am so sorry hun I wish I was there to hug you right now. please keep you chin up.. go out and see you mare and hug her and have a happy day with her.


----------



## chandra1313

I'm sorry to hear that Bird. Try to stay positive, although I can't imagine it will be easy. Chin up girl. Hang tough.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

They can't pass on the case to another judge?

*knows little to nothing about the system*


----------



## Cacowgirl

That is terrible! Your poor colt shut in a stall & now for even longer.Sending patience your way & wishing the BO would just let you have your boy.


----------



## NdAppy

Sky some places only have judges that see certain types of cases or cases from certain areas. There also could have been something that came up with the judge family emergency or whatever, so don't jump on judging the system for scheduling and the judge now being gone. They are people and have lives as well..


----------



## Hunter65

Awe so sorry Bird. I wish they would let you have the colt while this is all being decided.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Well until July then! Sending good vibes, OP.



NdAppy said:


> Sky some places only have judges that see certain types of cases or cases from certain areas.


Oh alright, that makes more sense. I have not really been involved with court before but definitely need to know more about it.



NdAppy said:


> There also could have been something that came up with the judge family emergency or whatever, so don't jump on judging the system for scheduling and the judge now being gone. They are people and have lives as well..


I'm not!! I just asked a simple question that I really had no idea about. :-|


----------



## NdAppy

Second part wasn't directed at you Sky. I promise. it was more as a get it out there since people were already starting that.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Thanks for clearing that up! I definitely don't want to get on anyone's bad side.

Yeah horse people and our passionate replies haha.. we just want what's best for the little guy :/ But I believe things happen for a reason. Not sure what the reason is yet, but I have high hopes that it'll all end well!


----------



## Critter sitter

bird3220 said:


> Judge is out of town!!!! I want to cry right now!!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 hugs hun i'm so sorry


----------



## Critter sitter

NdAppy said:


> Second part wasn't directed at you Sky. I promise. it was more as a get it out there since people were already starting that.


 i am just frusterated for Bird and Cheyanne and Dyllon I know things happen


----------



## muumi

Aw, I'm super sorry... that's really the last thing you needed right now.
At least you know the foal is safe, and is still there... and won't be going anywhere in the meantime.

If there is any bright lining to this dark cloud, at least you have even more time to prepare a watertight argument. 

Keep strong!


----------



## Skyseternalangel

bird3220 said:


> One brick wall after another.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hey hey now.. the best things in life aren't easy. They're worth fighting tooth and nail for.

You'll get through this.. maybe with your boy, maybe without. But it's how much you're willing to put into it all that really counts. 

You've got the entire horse forum behind ya! Plus I'm guessing your family and friends as well!

No need to get discouraged


----------



## Critter sitter

bird is there a way to do something about him breaking the court order? or do you have to wait for that to?


----------



## bird3220

I asked about an emergency hearing, but it seems that's just another brick wall. All i can do at this point is prepare ALL of my evidence accordingly and wait until the 12th. He will be served again tonight with the citation, petition, and TRO that has been updated with the new court date. I believe the judge who will hear this case on the 12th is the BEST judge for this case. Plus I've already had a one on one conversation with him about it when he signed the original TRO and Petition. Now I guess all I can do is pray these next 2 weeks go by fast. The only peace of mind I have are the animal control photos that show he is in decent condition and is being fed by the BO. I am also going to the police station this week to file my formal complaint against the police officer from last week for several reasons. 

Thank you everyone for your uplifting words and hope. I appreaciate all of the thought and prayers ya'll are giving for my horses and for me. I will let everyone know as soon as I know anything new.


----------



## bird3220

NdAppy said:


> Unless she is out there milking her as often as the foal would be nursing all it is doing is delaying the drying up process/extending the agony that drying up can sometimes be.


 
I have decided at this point to go ahead and let nature take its course as far as my mares milk production goes. Since it looks like it will be at least 2 weeks before my colt comes home, there isn't much of a reason to keep torturing her. That being said, any suggestions on easing the process for her???


----------



## Clayton Taffy

Gosh, what a huge disappointment.

I heard a saying once and I try to embrace it, whenever I go through a bad time, with my horses, like you are having.

*Better in the barn, than in the house.*

I can't even imagine what people go through with custody battles with their children.

Two weeks will fly by.


----------



## mousemom

As has been already said the time will go by quickly (yeah right). You have seen pics of your baby, he may be loosing a little weight, but is Ok otherwise, and you know where he is. Hang in there, use the time to assemble all the facts, and put everything in order. Maybe you can contact animal control to do a check up visit on your behalf. Keep strong it is going to work out in the end.


----------



## Nitefeatherz

I can't imagine having to wait until July 12th for this if it were my animals...I think I would already be a basket case at this point.


----------



## Arksly

I'm SO sorry you have to go through this. You'll definitely be in my thoughts and prayers. Unfortunately I'm leaving for Ohio on July 12 so I won't be able to see what happens until later. But a good luck!


----------



## NdAppy

Bird - as far as helping your mare dry up... just keep her outside and moving nature will take it's course. Don't milk her at all, but do keep an eye out to make sure her bag doesn't get extremely swollen and or very hot. I hope for both of you she dries up without problem.


----------



## bird3220

I am a basket case...... I have to pull it together to take my teaching certification test tomorrow though. At this point I know I have done everything I can do. I will continue to make videos of the pasture showing the BO is "hiding" the colt from me. I've also made attempts per the orders to allow my mare on the property for Dyllon to be able to nurse, but of course my requests have been ignored (can't say I am too upset about that though because I in no way want to put either of them through that again). I guess all I can do is hope that these orders/citation/petition motivate him to take better care of my colt so that when I do get him back I won't have to go through even more hell trying to get him healthy again.


----------



## dee

Oh dear! I just read this entire thread, and all I can say is, "WOW!" Honey, I am so sorry you are going through this - it isn't easy being betrayed by a friend like that. The moment I read that he would only let you take the mare, I knew he was planning on trying to pull a fast one with the colt.

A few years ago, a girl I was acquainted with had an outstanding roping horse. He was really awesome. She was going to be out of action for about a year due to back surgery, so she leased him to a friend that was going to use him on the rodeo circuit that year. Everything was in writing, spelled out clearly (the lease was actually written up by an attorney familiar with equine law.)

It didn't help much. After a few months, her rodeo friends started asking her where her horse was - they hadn't seen him or the guy that leased him at any of their regular rodeos. Turned out he had sold her horse. Funny thing is, he sold her horse to his own uncle, who was fully aware that the horse was only leased.

It was 18 months before she got her horse back, and thousands of dollars in attorney fees. Hearings kept being pushed back, then put on hold while the DA's office investigated one charge or another. To make things worse, the uncle tried to bill her for the care that the courts had ordered him to provide!

Eventually, she got her horse back, but in spite of a court order, the horse had not been well cared for. He had lost nearly 200 pounds, and his feet weren't trimmed the entire time he was out of her possession. She spent even more money getting her horse rehabbed, but he was never the same after that. 

She did get a court order requiring that the "friend" pay her attorney fees and court costs, but he never paid a dime. Kind of hard to do from a prison cell. He and his uncle were both third time felons and the straw that broke the camel's back was their conviction on "illegal conversion" and theft charges.

I'm not trying to scare you or make you give up. I just want you to be sure you know what you may be getting into. I very most sincerely hope that the courts in Texas are more friendly to you and your case than the courts here in Oklahoma were to this girl and her case.


----------



## bird3220

dee said:


> Oh dear! I just read this entire thread, and all I can say is, "WOW!" Honey, I am so sorry you are going through this - it isn't easy being betrayed by a friend like that. The moment I read that he would only let you take the mare, I knew he was planning on trying to pull a fast one with the colt.
> 
> A few years ago, a girl I was acquainted with had an outstanding roping horse. He was really awesome. She was going to be out of action for about a year due to back surgery, so she leased him to a friend that was going to use him on the rodeo circuit that year. Everything was in writing, spelled out clearly (the lease was actually written up by an attorney familiar with equine law.)
> 
> It didn't help much. After a few months, her rodeo friends started asking her where her horse was - they hadn't seen him or the guy that leased him at any of their regular rodeos. Turned out he had sold her horse. Funny thing is, he sold her horse to his own uncle, who was fully aware that the horse was only leased.
> 
> It was 18 months before she got her horse back, and thousands of dollars in attorney fees. Hearings kept being pushed back, then put on hold while the DA's office investigated one charge or another. To make things worse, the uncle tried to bill her for the care that the courts had ordered him to provide!
> 
> Eventually, she got her horse back, but in spite of a court order, the horse had not been well cared for. He had lost nearly 200 pounds, and his feet weren't trimmed the entire time he was out of her possession. She spent even more money getting her horse rehabbed, but he was never the same after that.
> 
> She did get a court order requiring that the "friend" pay her attorney fees and court costs, but he never paid a dime. Kind of hard to do from a prison cell. He and his uncle were both third time felons and the straw that broke the camel's back was their conviction on "illegal conversion" and theft charges.
> 
> I'm not trying to scare you or make you give up. I just want you to be sure you know what you may be getting into. I very most sincerely hope that the courts in Texas are more friendly to you and your case than the courts here in Oklahoma were to this girl and her case.


 
Ahhh, that's very scary. I pray it doesn't happen like this with Dyllon. I mean eventually something has to go right, right??? I pray that July 12 will settle everything and I will be able to pick my boy up that day!!! 

Some people are just so cruel and so wrong. To claim they love horses and then do such awful things.


----------



## Ladytrails

Bird, sorry to hear about the delay. While you're waiting, I agree with your decision to let the mare dry up - if her udder gets too uncomfortable you might see if a gentle cold hosing will feel good to her. I would take pictures of whatever you can, keep an eye on his place, and make sure that animal control checks every so often. If the colt continues to lose weight, that is a really important thing for animal control to document, and all of the BO's failure to comply with the court's orders should be piled on evidence of his intentions. The more you have, the more facts you have to show the judge. 

Good luck, hang in there - you have done all that you can do, and you got it done very, very quickly - don't let this distract you from your teaching cert exam! Get a good night's sleep and take care of yourself!


----------



## littleamy76

((((((Big hugs))))))) Stay strong


----------



## Breella

I have been following this thread from afar and biting my nails.


----------



## mousemom

Good luck with your exam, no doubt the timing is horrible with all you have been going through....sometimes things just ....

I believe your boy will be fine and back with you soon(?). Know you're doing the right things just hang in there.


----------



## Prinella

Omg Hun I'm so sorry!


----------



## ozarkmama

I have been following this thread (haven't read all the pages, but I read enough) I just have to say I am a big believer in KARMA. I feel that when this ends, the BO will get what he deserves. It may be a while down the road, but you just wait and see. 

I worked for a DR that accused me of something I didn't do, I ended up on probation, long story and I won't get into it here but I found out recently that he lost his license!! Karma is a biotch!!  

Hang in there Bird, it will work out.


----------



## Roperchick

> I feel that when this ends, the BO will get what he deserves. It may be a while down the road, but you just wait and see.


and if karma fails theirs always us!:twisted: no. but really i hope it all turns out well

based on what ive seena nd heard the entire month of June people have just gone loopy! so hopefully July will be much better for everybody!


----------



## Sweeney Road

bird3220 said:


> I am a basket case...... I have to pull it together to take my teaching certification test tomorrow though. At this point I know I have done everything I can do. I will continue to make videos of the pasture showing the BO is "hiding" the colt from me. I've also made attempts per the orders to allow my mare on the property for Dyllon to be able to nurse, but of course my requests have been ignored (can't say I am too upset about that though because I in no way want to put either of them through that again). I guess all I can do is hope that these orders/citation/petition motivate him to take better care of my colt so that when I do get him back I won't have to go through even more hell trying to get him healthy again.


How are you documenting the attempts to allow your mare on the property? If he's in violation of a court order which specifically directs that your mare be allowed to nurse her colt, then I suspect that the judge will not be very happy about that, as it is both a violation of the court order, and certainly NOT in the best interest of either your mare or your colt.


----------



## bird3220

Video and text attempts
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

Even with all the stress of trying to get Dyllon back, the BO couldn't keep me from passing my teaching cert!!!! Thank you everyone for thoughts and prayers! I received my passing score this morning. Hopefully this is a good start to thing looking up!!!! And hopefully my boy will be home soon!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## redpony

Congratulations, Bird! That is awesome
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Critter sitter

bird3220 said:


> Even with all the stress of trying to get Dyllon back, the BO couldn't keep me from passing my teaching cert!!!! Thank you everyone for thoughts and prayers! I received my passing score this morning. Hopefully this is a good start to thing looking up!!!! And hopefully my boy will be home soon!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 AWESOME!!!!!
Congrats girl... 
how are you holding up?


----------



## bird3220

I am in the process of getting all of my evidence together and organized for court. I am ok, and just praying next Thursday will be the end of this
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Annanoel

Congrats bird! Seriously, stay strong. Like others have said we are ALL behind you and support you. We're here for you. No one deserves this, and I'm sorry this is so long and drawn out. Just keep your head high and don't let the BO hold you back. Gather evidence, make YOUR case as strong as it can be to get your boy back. HUGS to you.


----------



## Critter sitter

good girl I am praying also and you have my Number if you ever need a ear.. ((((HUGS))))

how is your mare doing with her cuts and all?


----------



## bird3220

She is doing better. She keeps licking the knee that had the worst cut, but everything is getting doctored daily. I also took her Saturday and got her Coggins done, so that I will have those for court too to show I've been trying to do what's best for MY horses!!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GiftedGlider

I hope and pray everything works out for you bird! Hopefully your mare will heal quickly and you both can have your baby back! Hugs!


----------



## crimsonsky

bird3220 said:


> She is doing better. She keeps licking the knee that had the worst cut, but everything is getting doctored daily. I also took her Saturday and got her Coggins done, so that I will have those for court too to show I've been trying to do what's best for MY horses!!!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


this may seem like a silly question, but what does pulling coggins have to do with doing what is best for your horse in this situation? maybe i missed something.


----------



## bird3220

It is something she needs in Texas to take her anywhere or board her at a decent barn or put her around other horses.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

I have emails with a vet showing I had been trying to get them before but was prevented because I locked gates at te BO's place
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ThatDraftGirl

Crimsonsky, getting a coggins, just shows that she is a responsible horse owner... and could help her in court.


----------



## Critter sitter

ThatDraftGirl said:


> Crimsonsky, getting a coggins, just shows that she is a responsible horse owner... and could help her in court.


Hey Bird Just wanted to let you know I am thinking of you and your babies I hope all is going ok..


----------



## Ray MacDonald

Any updates?


----------



## bird3220

Court at 1:30 on Thursday!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## gigem88

Keeping my fingers crossed, let us know the outcome!


----------



## Critter sitter

Keeping fingers crossed for Thursday
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cacowgirl

Good Luck-hope your boy comes home soon.


----------



## amp23

Good luck, been thinking of you! Hope all goes well and you get your boy back soon!


----------



## chrislynnet

Bird, you and your horses are in my prayers too. And might I add that you have been both proactive with getting your babies back, AND very gracious to some extremely insulting posters. I'm proud of you.


----------



## Hunter65

Two more sleeps!


----------



## kitten_Val

bird3220 said:


> Court at 1:30 on Thursday!!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hope it won't be cancelled this time! Best luck!


----------



## bird3220

kitten_Val said:


> Hope it won't be cancelled this time! Best luck!


 
I would probably fall out in the court room if that happened. I have about 60 pages of evidence including pictures, FB posts, phone records, a certified letter (the one from the BO where he states both horses belong to me), and that does not include videos. GEEZ, everytime I think about court I get a nervouse/gonna puke feeling in my stomach..... Praying I get my boy back in 2 days!!!! Will have a trailer waiting on his street as soon as the judge says I get him back!!!!!


----------



## Jewelsb

One more day!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## redpony

Good luck tomorrow, Bird. I am so hoping for good news tomorrow, you have worked so hard for this and I really want a happy ending for you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

Well everyone tomorrow is HOPEFULLY the big day. I have 60+ pages of evidence, and there is no way on God's green earth he has a shred of anything on paper. Everytime I think about tomorrow I get a sick feeling. I am so nervous, but I just keep praying the judge will see that Dyllon is mine and I will get to bring him home..... (see just typing that my hands got all clammy and I felt faint)!!!! OH MAN TOMORROW IS GOING TO BE STRESSFUL!!!!!

Thank you everybody for every single thought and prayer and message over the last 3 weeks!!!


----------



## Clayton Taffy

Help full hints for tomorrow:

With so much evidence, 60 pages, make sure it is organized and you can find what you are looking for ASAP. Very important

Have the most important stuff in your hands labeled in big letters what it is, no time to read small print decifering paperwork.

Make sure you know your dates, no time to get confused on timeline, all paperwork should be dated in big letters so it is easy to see when you are nervous.

Be careful not to get bogged down with *trivial paperwork.*

I have suggested this before, speak only to the judge and speak only when spoken to.


File sugestions:

Proof of ownership

money changing hands, you to him

letters

vet papers

Good luck!!


----------



## Hunter65

BIG HUGS and good luck!!! You will get your baby back!!!!!


----------



## Celeste

Good luck tomorrow. Be sure to keep your cool. Getting mad can't help.


----------



## Rachel1786

Good luck tomorrow!:hug:


----------



## Saddlebag

Bird, you're not going before Judge Judy and this is not a criminal trial. The judge is there to resolve the issues and he is the only one with the knowledge to decide what is admissable by law. If he awards the colt to you, be sure to ask for costs. I think it's the court clerk who will let you know what is allowable.


----------



## Fahntasia

Bird I wish you all the luck in the world tomorrow!! Keeping my fingers crossed that all goes in your favor!


----------



## equiniphile

Wishing you luck.


----------



## TripR3

Just read all 59 pages. I kept thinking I'd get to hear the outcome of all this! I've spend half my day reading this sitting on the edge of my seat hoping for good news! Wishing you the very best of luck, and praying for the safe return of your colt asap. Sorry you had to go through this


----------



## Critter sitter

I'm on pins and needles about tomorrow. I am sure you are super nervous. We are all praying for you and the horses. Hugs girl I'm confident all will work out
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Seechele

Good Luck today!!


----------



## Hunter65

Best of luck today! Can't wait to hear that you have your baby back!


----------



## GiftedGlider

Wishing you the best of luck! Hopefully everything works out for you bird!


----------



## bird3220

I am at work this morning and going over what I am going to say to the judge. I am so beyond nervous, (clammy hands and feel sick). I hate public speaking and I have anxiety about having to get up in front of a room of people and plead my case. I am so so so very nervous, but I just keep praying that everything will be over today and I will be able to get my boy back..... Of course its been raining for the last 4 days down here so it will be a muddy mess, but if and when that judge says I can get him back not even a hurricane could stop me from hooking up the trailer and going to get him!!!!! Only a few more hours!!!!!!!!


----------



## CLaPorte432

As long as you are thinking of your little guy, youll do just fine.

I hate public speaking as well, almost passing out type of thing, but if one of my animals was taken from me, by God id stand infront of 5 million people to get them back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## chrislynnet

I'm praying too, Bird!


----------



## Critter sitter

bird3220 said:


> I am at work this morning and going over what I am going to say to the judge. I am so beyond nervous, (clammy hands and feel sick). I hate public speaking and I have anxiety about having to get up in front of a room of people and plead my case. I am so so so very nervous, but I just keep praying that everything will be over today and I will be able to get my boy back..... Of course its been raining for the last 4 days down here so it will be a muddy mess, but if and when that judge says I can get him back not even a hurricane could stop me from hooking up the trailer and going to get him!!!!! Only a few more hours!!!!!!!!


Send us some Rain please please...

we are all there with you stay strong girl


----------



## equiniphile

Just have confidence and remember that YOU are right. You're not trying to be someone you're not; you're trying to tell the truth and be given back what's rightfully yours.


----------



## bird3220

CLaPorte432 said:


> As long as you are thinking of your little guy, youll do just fine.
> 
> I hate public speaking as well, almost passing out type of thing, but if one of my animals was taken from me, by God id stand infront of 5 million people to get them back.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think once I get there I will be fine, but until then I am a freakin wreck. I am going to take about a million deep breaths and go in with my game face on. I fully plan on proving without a doubt he's done nothing but violate the court orders and prove that I rightfully own my own colt! Ahhhh, see clammy hands just thinkin about it. My dad flew into town and I have 3 witnesses going with me. Plus 70 pages of evidence including the "certified letter" signed by him that clearly states I own both horses. But until the judge says that I win, I will still be uneasy.


----------



## Nitefeatherz

Argh. I was hoping you had good news for us by now...!


----------



## bird3220

Hopefully in the next 7 hours i will be posting that my boy is back in my custody!!!!!! PRAYING AND PRAYING today is the final day.


----------



## katbalu

What time does it begin?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hunter65

Praying for you!


----------



## bird3220

katbalu said:


> What time does it begin?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It is 11:15 am here in Texas now. Court begins at 1:30 pm....2 hours and 15 minutes from now. Praying we are the only case on the docket so I don't have to sit and wait even longer.....


----------



## Annanoel

katbalu said:


> What time does it begin?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
I believe she said 1:30, but I'm not sure what time zone that she's in. Ah, I am on pins and needles as well, GOOD LUCK bird. Just stay strong, and act strong, don't be nervous go in there and get your colt back! <3


----------



## chrislynnet

So glad your dad will be with you and that you have witnesses too.


----------



## littleamy76

Sending tons of positive vibes your way. Hope all goes well


----------



## Drifting

Good luck


----------



## Critter sitter

OMG it is time I am sending you all my luck and praying so hard.... BRING DYLLON HOME!!!


----------



## Cacowgirl

Good wishes coming your way-be brave!


----------



## Roperchick

Good luck! cant wait to hear the news!


----------



## Calming Melody

anxious to know what happened !


----------



## dee

Bird, I see you peeking in! Please - don't tell us the hearing was postponed again!!!


----------



## Critter sitter

wait.... refresh.... wait... refresh...


----------



## Druydess

No word yet?? Good luck if it's in progress..


----------



## littleamy76

Critter sitter said:


> wait.... refresh.... wait... refresh...


Haha, you too? Ugh the suspense is killing me. I have to leave for work in 30 mins and I want to know what happened before I leave.


----------



## Oldhorselady

littleamy76 said:


> Haha, you too? Ugh the suspense is killing me. I have to leave for work in 30 mins and I want to know what happened before I leave.


Me three!!!!


----------



## Calming Melody

me four


----------



## Celeste

me five


----------



## Hunter65

Me six


----------



## Critter sitter

littleamy76 said:


> Haha, you too? Ugh the suspense is killing me. I have to leave for work in 30 mins and I want to know what happened before I leave.


 pm me a email or # and I can let you know


----------



## Critter sitter

I am hoping that the silence is a GREAT thing


----------



## Celeste

She is probably still in court. She seems to be signed in, but she may have left her computer signed it when she left.


----------



## Critter sitter

Celeste said:


> She is probably still in court. She seems to be signed in, but she may have left her computer signed it when she left.


 it may be her phone too.. I know mine stays signed in


----------



## Jewelsb

Ugh this wait is too much! I hope all has gone in your favor.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## vthorse

Don't have time to read thru all the pages...did the OP ever talk about her new baby horse being born on this forum? Did she post info and pictures on Facebook? Any other social media forum? 

If so, she could show support items in court.

Anyone I know who has a new foal born always raves about it online somewhere!

Emails to friends, family?


----------



## Celeste

If we feel this on edge, I can't imagine what Bird must be going through. We have our fingers crossed, Bird.


----------



## Clayton Taffy

I can't stand this any more, I am having heart palpations waiting.

I am going outside to water my baby orchard, yet again.

Good luck to yoou bird!


----------



## Silent one

Ugh! The suspense is killing me.......


----------



## bird3220

HOLY GOODNESS GRACIOUS I WON!!!!! Not temporary but permanent full custody. He is ordered to release him to me by 6pm. 1 hour from now at the latest!!!! More of an update after I get him and get settled in. Thank you God and everyone. WE WON!!!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Celeste

Wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## CLaPorte432

Congrats!!! That is so awesome! 

Take pictures when you get him home!!!


----------



## waresbear

Congrats, I knew you would get that foal back.


----------



## Clayton Taffy

*Yea!! *
*:clap:The good guy won!!:clap:*


----------



## Hunter65

Congrats I can't wait to see pictures. Ahh we can all breathe again lol

YAAAAYYYYY


----------



## chrislynnet

Praise the Lord for answered prayer! Good for you, you never gave up and obviously did GREAT in court. I'm so relieved!


----------



## chandra1313

Yay I knew it, when you hadn't still posted, I was like she had to have won or we would have heard by now. This is awesome, congratulations! If this cost you any money to take care of I hope he has to pay the expenses.


----------



## DimSum

WHOOOOHOOO!!!


----------



## bird3220

Didn't get awarded expenses but don't care. My baby boy is coming home!!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## egrogan

Congrats to you- followed from the beginning, so so glad it worked in your favor. You are definitely a lesson in the importance of clear, comprehensive documentation. In fact, when I bought my horse a few weeks ago, I had this thread in the back of my mind when I pushed to make the sales and boarding contracts much more detailed than the seller was proposing.


----------



## Chevaux

Well done, Bird. I'm new to the forum and have been waiting patiently so that my first post could be a congratulatory one on your thread. I truly am glad that all has transpired in your favour. Please provide some pictures when you can.


----------



## BarrelBunny

YAYYYY!!!!!  Congratulations!!! Can't wait to see pictures!


----------



## Jewelsb

Congrats I'm SO HAPPY for you!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Critter sitter

bird3220 said:


> HOLY GOODNESS GRACIOUS I WON!!!!! Not temporary but permanent full custody. He is ordered to release him to me by 6pm. 1 hour from now at the latest!!!! More of an update after I get him and get settled in. Thank you God and everyone. WE WON!!!!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Omg omg omg omg yayay happy dance. This made my week!!!'
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## fourleggedfriendly

New to the forum as well, but have been following your thread closely. Huge CONGRATS!! 😄
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## redpony

So,so,so happy for you! This is the happy ending I was hoping for!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

I will post pictures tomorrow at work. He's in the trailer headed home now!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

Getting off of here for the evening to go reunite my babies!!!!! I promise tons of details tomorrow!!!! Oh and pictures!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## equiniphile

So happy for you, bird! Congrats and great job!


----------



## ILOVETWHS

bird3220 said:


> HOLY GOODNESS GRACIOUS I WON!!!!! Not temporary but permanent full custody. He is ordered to release him to me by 6pm. 1 hour from now at the latest!!!! More of an update after I get him and get settled in. Thank you God and everyone. WE WON!!!!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Whoo Hoo!! :clap:
I'm new here, but I have been following this closely.


----------



## Roperchick

WINNING! yesss followed this from the beginning! im so happy for yall! 

cant wait for pics tomorrow!


----------



## Silent one

Woooooohoooooo! Yay!!!!


----------



## churumbeque

was he in good condition?


----------



## Prinella

YAY FOR THE GOOD GUYS!!

Can't wait for pics! I hope dyllons ok!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cacowgirl

Happy dance for you-I've followed this & prayed for a good outcome-so glad you got your boy!


----------



## littleamy76

Yay!!! *jumping up and down* Big sigh of relief, I am soooooo glad things worked out for you. Once you get your baby settled in, take pics and let us know how he's doing!


----------



## cakemom

I am over the top happy for you!!


----------



## Druydess

You did good Lady! Very proud of you.


----------



## MHFoundation Quarters

Fantastic! :happydance: Look forward to seeing pictures!


----------



## bird3220

Critter sitter said:


> wait.... refresh.... wait... refresh...


 
HAHAHAHA this made me laugh.... I would have totally been doing the same thing!!!


----------



## bird3220

First and foremost I would like to thank everyone who supported me and prayed and thought about my horses and me the last 3 weeks. You all truly helped me stay positive and helped me make it through this..... Secondly I would like to personally thank everyone who doubted me (and I am not being sarcastic). Your doubt and your questions helped to motivate me to find a better way to present my case and to prove that Dyllon is mine. 

Now to the parts that everyone is waiting for!!!! Right before court I found out the BO had a lawyer (made me even more nervous). Went through about 3 hours of court. I testified first, then I called 2 witnesses and then the last person who testified was the BO. His lawyer asked me a bunch of questions, and then we both asked my witnesses. The lawyer quesitoned the BO first and he made a lot of contradicting statements. Going in I knew I was going to ask him questions to get him fired up and it worked. He started getting confused and throwing his hands around and ended up basically messing up most of his "story". We broke for recess and when the judge came back he awarded me the request for emergency petition of return of property and stated that it was a permanent and not temporary decision. He stated that no additional fees would be awarded to either party. (The BO's attorney, the asked the judge if he would order me to pay the BO's attorney fees - DENIED!!!!!!)....... I ran to my apartment and grabbed my rain boots (been raining here for 4 days), and my friend ran and grabbed his trailer and we headed to the barn. We stood in the road for about 10 minutes and the BO finally came to the driveway and was like "He's your horse, go get him"...... took me all of 4 minutes to halter him and get him in the trailer and we were headed home. They were calling for each other from the pasture and the trailer. I haltered my horse and brought her into the yard and unloaded Dyllon from the trailer. The first thing he tried to do was nurse, but she wasn't havin it. He was so excited to see her and he's been stuck to her hip ever since. She wasn't too thrilled at first, but before I left she was already starting to get her maternal/protective instincts back. I am so so so happy to have my babies back together........ 

AND THE MOMENT YOU HAVE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR..........Here come some pictures!!!!!


----------



## paintedpastures

Pictures Yup we're waiting:lol:


----------



## Jewelsb

Pics!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## stormylass

yeaaaaaahhhh!!! I am soooo happy for you!! what a relief! everything is right in your world tonight!


----------



## bird3220

Headed to the trailer..... PROUD MOMMA!!!!!








Loaded and Ready to head HOME








Following Cheyenne EVERYWHERE!!!!








She wasn't all that thrilled LOL








That's BETTER....








Attached at the hip AGAIN!!!


----------



## Jewelsb

Mmmm..... I don't see themmmm! 
Just me?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

Can you see these now?


----------



## Jewelsb

Yes!
Awe yay! I'm so happy to see them back together!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Clayton Taffy

All is well that ends well!!

So happy for you!!


----------



## bird3220

First thing he did was try to suck, but she wasn't havin it. LOL. I am going to get him some milk replacer tomorrow and some other supplements. He's got a pot belly and some pretty ugly scrapes, but he's home and now I can start spoiling him rotten again.


----------



## paintedpastures

What a cutie!! Glad this ordeal is over for you & you can go on the lovin those Ponies:lol:


----------



## bird3220

And this is the certified letter for everyone who said that there is no way a police officer could have actually read what I stated and allowed the BO to keep the horse..... Read this.... IT REALLY HAPPENED!!!!! I took the names out of it just out of respect.


----------



## bird3220

I'm going to bed. Thanks again everyone. Needless to say I will ALWAYS sign an agreement from this point, and that lease will NEVER say that anyone can claim ownership of my horses for any reason. Good night all!!!!!


----------



## Kaibear

I've been following this from the beginning and I'm so happy that you have your boy back with his mom!!! You did an awesome job and should be proud of yourself - way to go!


----------



## bird3220

Kaibear said:


> I've been following this from the beginning and I'm so happy that you have your boy back with his mom!!! You did an awesome job and should be proud of yourself - way to go!


Thank you very much..... I can't believe I beat him and his ATTORNEY.... God helped me out today, that's for sure


----------



## Clayton Taffy

You must be exhausted.
I hope you don't have to work tomorrow and can play with your baby.
Good night


----------



## chrislynnet

Absolutely wonderful. I can see the pictures now, they are both beautiful and you are beaming!


----------



## bird3220

I was like a 6 year old skipping and jumping around the court house. Hearing that verdict was such a relief.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AlexS

I'd like to both apologize to you and congratulate you on having your horse back. I was one of the people, maybe the worst who doubted your story early on and called you on it. 

I didn't really believe that the colt was yours, and I am sorry for that. 

Congrats on having him home.


----------



## cakemom

Wonderful that they are back together! Your family is whole again.


----------



## bird3220

AlexS - thank you, but without you and the others who doubted me I wouldn't have had a different perspective about my approach to proving my side. I owe y'all a lot for that and I thank you for that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## stevenson

pretty mare and colt. Glad you got them back. That was a hard lesson to learn, and the BO should have just taken the money for board/care and let you take the horses. In California, you have to file with the court and the horses awarded to you before taking possession, then they are sold and any excess over board cost are given to the 'owner'. Sleep well.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians

Good job Bird. You got your stuff together and kept your emotions in check and you prevailed. I'm really happy that mom & baby and you are reunited!


----------



## verona1016

It sucks that it took so long, but so glad that you prevailed in the end!


----------



## Roperchick

:happydance::clap:

yaaaay pictures! and im so glad Dyllons back home! hope you dont have to work tomorrow and can spoil the shiznit out of them!


----------



## busysmurf

Roperchick said:


> :happydance::clap:
> 
> yaaaay pictures! and im so glad Dyllons back home! hope you dont have to work tomorrow and can spoil the shiznit out of them!


HAHAHA, you said shiznit!!!! I thought my hubby was the only one that said that!!!!

OP, I made it through every single page, & I'm VERY happy for you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Roperchick

busysmurf said:


> HAHAHA, you said shiznit!!!! I thought my hubby was the only one that said that!!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
bahaha well i cant very well use me regular vocabulary on the forum haha!


----------



## muumi

Well done, and yay for happy endings!
Thanks for keeping us updated so well during the whole process... it has been a very interesting and informative thread!
I'm really so happy for you!


----------



## chandra1313

This was the most interesting thread for quite awhile. This thread really pointed out the importance of contracts and get it in writing. I used to have a group of friends that I kept their horses on my property and because they were friends I didn't have contracts with them. I probably wouldn't have been able to confiscate their horses, but when I had, had enough and didn't want to board their horses anymore I worried about how to end it on a good note without making anyone mad. A contract would have made things business like and maybe my friends wouldn't have thought that they could take advantage of me and it wouldn't have gotten to the point where I asked them to leave.

Thank you Bird for the time you took to keep all of us updated. The pics were a awesome ending to a nail biting on the edge of your seat story. Good luck


----------



## EvilHorseOfDoom

Woohoo fantastic news!! And Dylan is a gorgeous colt 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Centaurheart

I read this whole thread tonight. I was so angry at first that this happened to you and then I realized something really important. This man put you through hell in terms of worrying and lying and changing his story. And you went through hell here as well having to defend yourself and having to think about what was going to happen - both IRL and on this forum.

However, I wonder now how many people who read this thread (and obviously its quite a few) will learn from your battle and from your panic and from your transition from outrage to quiet rage to 'getting this fixed' so they too can be very very vigilant about protecting themselves from this ever happening to them in the future.

I'm really glad you shared this story and all its drama with this community. I hope nothing like this ever happens again. I hope both those at fault and those that are innocent of wrongdoing take something away from this thread.

You deserve hugs from the entire community too. Good job for sticking to your guns and I particularly loved the fact you posted the letter and all the pics too. Your colt is as lovely as your mare is. Good job!

And PS. That other mare that was left on the property with the filly is terribly thin. Shame on him.


----------



## Poco1220

I was wondering what he said at court regarding the certified letter saying 2 horses vs him saying you only had one?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lucky2008

Congrats!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

Poco1220 said:


> I was wondering what he said at court regarding the certified letter saying 2 horses vs him saying you only had one?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


GREAT question.... possibly one of my most favorite parts about court because I got to question him and only his lawyer was allowed to question me. When I testified I quoted the letter out loud. When he got on the stand I questioned him about the letter. 

I asked him the following questions, his answers follow the questions:

Do you remember telling the police officer you had no interest in keeping my horses you just wanted the money you requested in the letter? "YES"

Did you state that the $360 was for both horses? "YES"

Did I pay you $360? "YES"

Why when I returned to the property with the money for the horses did you then change your story and say that the $360 was only for my mare? "Because you brought the cops to my house and I was mad, so I decided not to give you Dyllon"

Wait, so your saying that the letter stated the $360 was for both horses, but that night you told the police officer it was only for one horse? "YES"


So basically he stated in court under oath that he lied to the police that night and only decided to give me one horse for $360. He also said he NEVER actually sold my colt and that he had always been on the property. I asked why he gave the $180 check the following day to the police to hand to me and he stated it was because he had decided not to give me the colt. I reiterated, but you just said you took $360 from me the night before. So you knew the night before you were doing the wrong thing and you just did it because you were mad that I brought the police to your house? YES, I was mad you brought the police and I decided not to give you the colt.......


----------



## Poco1220

What a moron! You won the case right there! Glad you got your boy back unharmed. At least this guy seems I half a BIT of decency and didn't kill, maim, or sell your colt. We look forward to watching him grow! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

Thank you..... Its torture today because I actually have to work LOL.... GEEZ!!!! haha, but as soon as I get off I will be back out there and there will be more pictures!!!!!


----------



## kitten_Val

Congrats! I think BO was already punished enough by paying his attorney (those folks are NOT cheap). Wish you best luck with the baby!


----------



## Annanoel

AH! YAY BIRD! They're adorable, and some gorgeous horses at that. He will be a looker! CONGRATS, I've been following from the beginning and I can't even imagine how much of a relief it is for you! Good for you for staying strong in court and backing everything up, not to mention collecting all the evidence you did. HUGS! I'm at work just beaming, I'm so glad you got him back!


----------



## bird3220

Yesterday before court I took my new custom brand and had it registered and the actual brand was shipped from the company yesterday as well. My mare will be branded ASAP and as soon as Dyllon is bigger he will be branded with it as well. 

I have been told that I can send her papers and 10 of his hairs from his tail in order to get his APHA papers. Does anybody know if that is true?


----------



## Jewelsb

Call APHA they are very helpful and they can answer your question. I'm not sure if it's true or not though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jewelsb

817-834-APHA
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NdAppy

Nope that isn't true. You have to have a stallion breeding report and all kinds of things. If you are really curious about it I suggest that you call the APHA, but for all intents and purposes you have a grade colt.


----------



## Annanoel

I do agree with Jewels, give them a call and they should be able to lead you through the process! Shouldn't be too hard but I'm not sure how it will work since you don't have the stud report like Appy said. Can't hurt to try though!


----------



## bird3220

I'm going to geld him later down the road and I don't want him reg'd for breeding purposes, I just want papers on him so that nobody can ever say they own him ever again.


----------



## Roperchick

Im not an expert on registrations but you could also try a color association...I got charlie registered for the PHBA (Palomino Horse Breeders of America) based purely on Color since we dont know who the sire is- under this:

*Geldings or Spayed Mares Color*
*545. *If a Palomino horse is not eligible for registration with one of the recognized breed associations listed above, it may be considered for registration *strictly on color characteristics for the body, skin, eyes, markings and mane and tail.*
*546. The ancestry or bloodline of these horses will not be shown on the registra­tion certificate*, unless it can be verified in fact. Methods of verifying facts should include, but not be limited to, breeder certificates, stallion breeding reports, and methods through genetic testing via PHBA recognized laboratories


so if you dont have a breeding report or DNA testing or anything you can still register your horse (at least with PHBA dunno about other color registries) with papers on him...just without the bloodline or ancestry on the certificate


----------



## NdAppy

Most color registries are not worth the paper they send you. 

You said he has a belly spot? Well register the mare and him with the PtHA.


----------



## Roperchick

> Most color registries are not worth the paper they send you.


to each their own haha. but i personally am very glad to have some papers on Charlie. This gives me the security since A. hes a solid palomino with no markings, brand, or chip (yet im getting that remedied asap haha). and B. Im just parinoid about security and having this little paper that says hes registered somewhere with my name on it, makes me ubber happy haha.


----------



## Celeste

Micro-chipping is probably a really good idea.


----------



## bird3220

I am going to look into the PtHA and micro chipping, I also have a vm out to APHA regarding getting a breeder's indemnity form (I think that's what its called), since I won't be able to get the stud's information from the BO for OBVIOUS reasons.....


----------



## Celeste

He's so greedy that he would probably sell you the information.


----------



## bird3220

I don't plan on having any future or further contact with him. I could possibly contact the farm he originally purchased the stud from and they may have some record of at least his reg'd APHA name


----------



## bird3220

NdAppy said:


> Most color registries are not worth the paper they send you.
> 
> You said he has a belly spot? Well register the mare and him with the PtHA.


 
Do you know the requirements to prove/show the spot on his belly to have him reg'd with PtHA?


----------



## Celeste

I would micro-chip and possibly brand the horse. I would be sure that both of these are recorded in some kind of ownership registry. If it were me, I wouldn't worry about the papers. I have a nice registered mare. I don't plan to breed her. If I were going to show her, she could certainly compete without them unless it was in breed specific classes. Then I would have to dig them out of the bottom of the drawer. You can't ride papers.


----------



## Jewelsb

If the BO turned in the breeders certificate (when she was first bred) APHA can have it on record. If so you can register him. Call APHA tell them your mares registration number and ask if a breeders certificate was turned in for her foal.
I literally just went through this and thankfully in my case the information was turned in so I can register my mares foal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

Celeste said:


> I would micro-chip and possibly brand the horse. I would be sure that both of these are recorded in some kind of ownership registry. If it were me, I wouldn't worry about the papers. I have a nice registered mare. I don't plan to breed her. If I were going to show her, she could certainly compete without them unless it was in breed specific classes. Then I would have to dig them out of the bottom of the drawer. You can't ride papers.


I have already designed, reg'd, and ordered my custom brand. I plan on having my mare branded ASAP, but I don't want to brand him already at only 4 months. I will inquire with several vets about micro-chipping him though and I may go ahead and put a tattoo in his ear(s)


----------



## bird3220

Jewelsb said:


> If the BO turned in the breeders certificate (when she was first bred) APHA can have it on record. If so you can register him. Call APHA tell them your mares registration number and ask if a breeders certificate was turned in for her foal.
> I literally just went through this and thankfully in my case the information was turned in so I can register my mares foal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can pretty much 1000% guarantee he didn't turn in a breeder's cert because he knew there was a 50/50 chance the foal would be lethal and he wouldn't spend money on that


----------



## Cacowgirl

He looks great! And so happy to be back w/his mom-love the pics of them together. Thank you so much for keeping of posted of all the in & outs of this ordeal. You did a great job in court & the BO sure made a fool of himself. So glad it went your way in the courtroom. Now, enjoy your horses!


----------



## Jewelsb

I was told 50% chance of lethal white on my mares foal too. She hasn't had her goal yet so I'm praying he comes out not lethal. I just found out that the chance of a foal being lethal is actually 25% though as it's impossible to have a 50% chance from what I understand.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

Jewelsb said:


> I was told 50% chance of lethal white on my mares foal too. She hasn't had her goal yet so I'm praying he comes out not lethal. I just found out that the chance of a foal being lethal is actually 25% though as it's impossible to have a 50% chance from what I understand.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I understand your worry.... the waiting stinks, but I will be praying for you and the foal. I don't plan on ever breeding her again, but if I do she will most definitely NOT be bred to another paint horse ever again.

AAHH, I was just reminded of something he said in court yesterday.... The BO stated that he PURPOSELY bred the stud to the 3 mares last year, (the stud is frame and 2 of the mares were frame). So it's obvious he could careless if they come out lethal or not.


----------



## Spirit Lifter

Wow! Many hours later I'm now finished reading this thread from the beginning. Somebody could make a movie this was so interesting!

So glad you had the tenacity and passion to stick with it! You'd make a great lawyer yourself or a business owner!

It broke my heart what the mare had gone thru breaking out of the pasture to be with her baby. What the colt must have gone thru too saddens me. All locked up in a stall staring at four walls with no love. Hopefully nobody turns buddy soar after this life changing event! If I were a horse, I'd be buddy sour from this point on.

So glad there was a happy ending. I'm very proud of you! Very, very, good job! And for you to even thank your opposition.....what a sign of integrity and good character. You aren't even my daughter and I am SO proud of you!:thumbsup::clap::hug:


----------



## bird3220

SpiritLifter - 

*You'd make a great lawyer (my mom told me she won't pay for law school :lol* yourself or a business owner!

*It broke my heart what the mare had gone thru breaking out of the pasture to be with her baby*. That reminds me.....Yesterday in court one of my witnesses is the man who's barn my horses are currently at (I have a great boarding contract now!!!), and his lawyer was asking him questions making it seem like I neglected my mare because a while back she had an abscess from stepping on a nail (@ the BO's property), and her current cuts from the fence. I was able to requestion the NEW BO regarding the care of my mare after the lawyer tried to prove neglect and I asked him questions like when my mare jumped the fence when she was removed from her colt what did I do, and where did I stay. He replied with the truth which was that from that Friday evening until Sunday night about 9pm I did not leave their house. My mare instead of sleeping in the pasture slept in their actual back yard and I slept in their living room with only a window seperating us, and I was up and down all night long checking on her. He told the court I bathed her and doctored on her and spent every minute for 48 hours focused on her and nothing else and that I in no way neglected her one bit. He also told the court I sat outside with her for hours that Friday night calming her and just spending time with her because nobody else could calm her down. 


*What the colt must have gone thru too saddens me. All locked up in a stall staring at four walls with no love.* (I could tell yesterday he hadn't been touched/scratched/love on because when I was going there everyday i would scratch him all over, brush him, pick up his feet, and just spend time with him, but yesterday he was distant at first. Only took me about 10 minutes for him to remember and he was following me around like a puppy again)

Hopefully nobody turns *buddy soar* (what does this mean)

*You aren't even my daughter and I am SO proud of you! *(Thank you. I unfortunately had made my dad a witness and he didn't get to actually see any of the court proceedings. I wish I could change that part, so he would have seen me in action) :thumbsup::clap::hug:


----------



## Spirit Lifter

You can reach any of your career goals with the determination that you have. I started, owned and managed an engineering firm without college degree. When I sold in 2006, I had 40 employees. I retired early at 49.

Buddy sour is when you want to take a horse out to ride they act all up because they are leaving their pasture mate. Separation anxiety.

You'll go far with your determination. Sometimes in life, when two roads diverge, choosing the road less traveled makes all the difference in the world. You took the road less traveled. Meaning, most folks would not have fought so hard and at that expense. In the end, you were rewarded with your colt.

http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/the-road-not-taken/

Lisa


----------



## bird3220

SpiritLifter said:


> You can reach any of your career goals with the determination that you have. I started, owned and managed an engineering firm with college degree. When I sold in 2006, I had 40 employees. I retired early at 49.
> 
> Buddy sour is when you want to take a horse out to ride they act all up because they are leaving their pasture mate. Kinda like separation anxiety.
> 
> You'll go far with your determination in choosing the road less traveled because it's the right thing to do!
> 
> Lisa


I think they will both be fine. She had so much stress her first few nights because she was all alone, but my bf brought his gelding and the BO put another gelding with her and she calmed down. My mare is ok. I think it was just the stress from taking her colt from her and changing everything about her life all in the same day, and that will never happen. My colt has the greatest personality and I believe he will be just fine wherever he is.


----------



## bird3220

*Reunited and it feels so good.......*

These were part of a video from last night when I reunited Cheyenne and Dyllon, but I can't figure out how to post the video so I captured a couple pics from my phone and here they are!!!!!!! His lil pot belly kills me, and it makes him look so funny.......... LOL

























But like I said...... Attached to the hip IMMEDIATELY!!!! Man I love my babies and I am so so thankful I have them back together finally


----------



## bird3220

I promise he actually walks on his back left leg........ Geez, I just happened to catch all three of those pictures with it in the air like he's deformed or something!!!!! I could sit and look at these pictures all day. I am so happy he is home FINALLY!!!!!


----------



## chrislynnet

Those pictures made me cry (in a good way!).


----------



## Terre

What is lethal mean. And frame up. I never heard.


----------



## bird3220

My mare has a LWO gene and the stud has the same. There was a chance my colt could have been born a lethal paint which typically means they are born solid white with no spots. Because of the LWO genes their intestines and digestive tract don't fully develop and the don't live more than 48-72 hours. Google lethal paints and there's tons of info on it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

How my made looks is a typical "frame" overo paint and those are typically the type of horses that carry the LWO gene
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Terre

Thanks so much never had a paint. I so glad everything turn out ok with your guys. When I was 13, I got my frist horse when we bought her she was foundered. We knew nothing about horses and was told that if she was pranent then the foal who be the old owners. She knew the horse was foundered and she had been breed but not check to make sure if it took. We had to give the foal up at three months old and had to put the mare down so after. Hard lesson to learn.


----------



## bird3220

My mare is my first horse and there is NOTHING I wouldn't do for her or my colt. Nobody will ever be able to take them from me again!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Nitefeatherz

So glad you got your baby back! I've been reading this thread from the beginning and not knowing was killing me. I can't imagine what it would have been like for the OP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ladytrails

Job well done, Bird! Enjoy your happy horses! (PS - his little pot is just a baby pot - it'll be fine after he's had some better turnout and care that you'll provide!)


----------



## itsapleasure

Just got finished reading this whole thread, what a terrible thing to have to go through! I am so happy that you got your little guy back! I cannot believe the nerve of that man, what a creep! Congrats on winning your case and your horses are beautiful =) Glad you hung in there, he is worth ever terrible minute that it took to get him back


----------



## Roperchick

does mama mare still have milk? or is Dyllon pretty much weaned off? he still looks like hes a big mammas boy


----------



## Hunter65

OMG Bird I am so happy for you and I love little dyllon, llok forward to future pictures as he grows. BIG HUGS!!!!!


----------



## bird3220

My mare still has milk but she won't let him nurse. He stays attached to her hip but he's weaned and eating pretty good. It's been raining here a lot so hay hasn't been too good of an option, but he gets to graze on fresh green gas all day now instead of stalled by himself with nobody to love on him!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ThirteenAcres

Was your mare losing weight in the stress? Hopefully with baby reunited she will put the pounds on. =(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bird3220

She didn't lose too much Bc I put those other horses with her almost right away and she wasn't so stressed
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JoesMom

So glad to come back here and see such a positive outcome. Congrats on getting you boy back permanently.


----------



## Kelli

Bird, I have been following this thread from the beginning and wanted to tell you how happy I am for you that you got your horses back! I think we have all learned a valuable lesson from reading your posts. Thanks so much for sharing your story!


----------



## bird3220

I appreciate so many of you following from the beginning. Dyllon is already looking better. I didn't get to clean him up this weekend because it still rained, but hopefully this week I can get some good pics of momma and baby!!!!


----------



## Hunter65

Can't wait


----------



## Critter sitter

Hunter65 said:


> Can't wait


 Ditto that hunter
I love ALL the pics!!!


----------



## Critter sitter

bird3220 said:


> HAHAHAHA this made me laugh.... I would have totally been doing the same thing!!!


 I did this till I had to leave and go to my own horses and I then was doing it while riding with my phone ;-0


----------



## Druydess

AlexS said:


> I'd like to both apologize to you and congratulate you on having your horse back. I was one of the people, maybe the worst who doubted your story early on and called you on it.
> 
> I didn't really believe that the colt was yours, and I am sorry for that.
> 
> Congrats on having him home.


Kudos to you Alex for stepping up. Shows what a Lady you are and what an honest heart you have.


----------



## Druydess

bird3220 said:


> AlexS - thank you, but without you and the others who doubted me I wouldn't have had a different perspective about my approach to proving my side. I owe y'all a lot for that and I thank you for that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm glad you posted that letter and I am very happy you kept your cool, your class, and your chutzpah! I think we all forget that sometimes, however "off" it may sound, there are injustices done to people who do not deserve it, and we have to take care with judging such situations.

Congrats girl! I am very happy for you. Another underdog kicks butt!


----------



## wild old thing

bird3220 said:


> Alexs, my colt is MIA at this point, but the BO was served with papers yesterday that contain requirements of my colt no longer being hidden from me and ensuring my colts safety until a hearing for temporary custody. The only person my colt is allowed to be released to is me. Yes, I owned my mare before he was born.
> 
> Yesterday was a very rough day. My mare is having a very hard time. I received a phone call at about 3 on from my friend where I am keeping her until all of this is sorted out and she had jumped a fence and has some fairly bad cuts on her. The neighbor had found her down the road standing outside his pasture of horses. He called her and brought her back and tied her to a tree. He cleaned her up and then went back home. About an hour later he called again because she had broken the Bronc halter and was back down by his pasture again. She has cuts on her knees and flanks and little nicks and missing hair all over her body. She has a pretty ugly gash on her face from the halter but it's just the hide rubbed off and I've put meds on everything and spoken to a vet about helping ease her stress. Last night I sat outside with her for hours. I loved on her and let her graze and eat and drink water and just tried to show her she was ok and could calm down. I stayed at my friends house in the living room where only a window is separating us. I was up and down all night checking on her. She was completely relaxed and got some sleep. She stood right outside the window for the majority of the night and now she's grazing again. Today a fried of mine is bringing one of his horses to put with her and see if that will ease some of her loneliness. At this point it's all a waiting game on the court and judge. I've done everything I can and I just pray that I can get my colt back soon.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


oh this broke my heart. this entire thread is like reading a mystery. I'm not skipping to the end, but I'm praying this has already come to a good conclusion. this is tough but your perserverance is exemplary. my fingers are crossed.


----------



## wild old thing

*Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!

woohoo*


----------



## wild old thing

bird3220 said:


> GREAT question.... possibly one of my most favorite parts about court because I got to question him and only his lawyer was allowed to question me. When I testified I quoted the letter out loud. When he got on the stand I questioned him about the letter.
> 
> I asked him the following questions, his answers follow the questions:
> 
> Do you remember telling the police officer you had no interest in keeping my horses you just wanted the money you requested in the letter? "YES"
> 
> Did you state that the $360 was for both horses? "YES"
> 
> Did I pay you $360? "YES"
> 
> Why when I returned to the property with the money for the horses did you then change your story and say that the $360 was only for my mare? "Because you brought the cops to my house and I was mad, so I decided not to give you Dyllon"
> 
> Wait, so your saying that the letter stated the $360 was for both horses, but that night you told the police officer it was only for one horse? "YES"
> 
> 
> So basically he stated in court under oath that he lied to the police that night and only decided to give me one horse for $360. He also said he NEVER actually sold my colt and that he had always been on the property. I asked why he gave the $180 check the following day to the police to hand to me and he stated it was because he had decided not to give me the colt. I reiterated, but you just said you took $360 from me the night before. So you knew the night before you were doing the wrong thing and you just did it because you were mad that I brought the police to your house? YES, I was mad you brought the police and I decided not to give you the colt.......


He is a stupid man. He and his sick wife lost a friend. If I got it right, he is suffering financially (as many of us are) and was starting to pilfer the feed you were providing for your horses. I'm guessing he figured you caught him when you asked him if your mare was eating a full bag a day. You were asking a genuine question but he thought you were letting him know you knew he was taking your feed. And so he hatched a plan to "make" you pay him more. I think it's because it was beyond him to honestly ask for a fair payment for boarding. He's all about using and being used - maybe all his life. 

You may have considered them your friends, but I don't think he ever considered you HIS friend. If he did, he would have said to you, _"Sorry but we can't afford to keep your horses on our property without some kind of payment. We're having a hard time." _

He and maybe even his wife considered what you did, like bbqs and helping out "your due". And then when he thought you would start watching what he did, decided to up the ante. 

I don't think he was ever your friend. Another person said something like this: what you thought was friendship was really what YOU did for them (in exchange for what they figured they did for you). It's true, you boarded your horses there, but a more satisfactory arrangement could have been made any time they thought it was unfair. He could have negotiated a fair price and STILL KEPT A FRIEND. If he really wanted one. 

Some people trust other people, enjoy friendships. ANd some don't. And now you know...regardless of what they are or seem to be, get it in writing. THEN throw the bbq.

I am SO Happy for you. I read every post in this thread. I am up way past my bedtime reading this, but it was worth it to see the pictures of Dyllan and his mum reunited and you, smiling. I am happy you got your teaching certification and got back your baby boy. And I got my happy ending. There was a moment there, about two pages back when I worried that maybe it would go the other way...I couldn't see how, but life gets like that sometimes. And thankfully it didn't. 

YAA! FOR THE GOOD GUYS!!


----------



## wild old thing

chrislynnet said:


> Those pictures made me cry (in a good way!).


me too!


----------



## bird3220

wild old thing said:


> He is a stupid man. He and his sick wife lost a friend. If I got it right, he is suffering financially (as many of us are) and was starting to pilfer the feed you were providing for your horses. I'm guessing he figured you caught him when you asked him if your mare was eating a full bag a day. You were asking a genuine question but he thought you were letting him know you knew he was taking your feed. And so he hatched a plan to "make" you pay him more. I think it's because it was beyond him to honestly ask for a fair payment for boarding. He's all about using and being used - maybe all his life.
> 
> You may have considered them your friends, but I don't think he ever considered you HIS friend. If he did, he would have said to you, _"Sorry but we can't afford to keep your horses on our property without some kind of payment. We're having a hard time." _
> 
> He and maybe even his wife considered what you did, like bbqs and helping out "your due". And then when he thought you would start watching what he did, decided to up the ante.
> 
> I don't think he was ever your friend. Another person said something like this: what you thought was friendship was really what YOU did for them (in exchange for what they figured they did for you). It's true, you boarded your horses there, but a more satisfactory arrangement could have been made any time they thought it was unfair. He could have negotiated a fair price and STILL KEPT A FRIEND. If he really wanted one.
> 
> Some people trust other people, enjoy friendships. ANd some don't. And now you know...regardless of what they are or seem to be, get it in writing. THEN throw the bbq.
> 
> I am SO Happy for you. I read every post in this thread. I am up way past my bedtime reading this, but it was worth it to see the pictures of Dyllan and his mum reunited and you, smiling. I am happy you got your teaching certification and got back your baby boy. And I got my happy ending. There was a moment there, about two pages back when I worried that maybe it would go the other way...I couldn't see how, but life gets like that sometimes. And thankfully it didn't.
> 
> YAA! FOR THE GOOD GUYS!!


 
Thank you so much, and I agree, he never was really a friend. I laughed about the part about get in in writing and then throw a BBQ. My new boarding lease is great!!! Your posts make me smile. It's crazy to think people from all over the world sat and read through 75+ pages of this thread and were so supportive of me. When I joined this forum I had a rought first few days getting accustomed to reactions and posts, but this thread really made me appreciate Horse Forum and the love and support you find from other horse people from around the world. All the kind thoughts, prayers, and suggestions really helped me get my boy back!!!!


----------



## Cacowgirl

So glad it did go your way in court. Happy to see mare & foal back together, even if he isn't nursing-Mom will teach him a lot. Much better than you having to teach him how to be a horse. Hope you keep us posted on his progress & would love tosee pics of him as he grows up. You did such a fantastic job in court-you definetely deserve a "pat on the back". You may even have a future in the law!?!


----------



## bird3220

I am going to start a new thread for their progress and of him as he grows. I will post it here when I do start it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Critter sitter

bird3220 said:


> I am going to start a new thread for their progress and of him as he grows. I will post it here when I do start it!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 awesome idea Fresh Start


----------



## hannahfg

I really hope everything works out well! I keep my horse for free and if this happened to me i would be morbid.


----------



## Ripplewind

Too lazy to read the whole thread. Did you get your horses back?


----------



## Cinnys Whinny

I have been "lurking" here in the shadows for a while.... I am so so happy for you that you got your baby back! You kept your cool and made that system work for you!!! REading this just made my day.


----------



## barrelbeginner

same here how did everything go???


----------



## bird3220

Yes I got him back about 2 weeks ago
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## barrelbeginner

Congratsss!


----------

