# at what point is it considered sexual harassment



## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

When a car load of young men cat call at you from across a dark parking lot? Or what about when the same group follows you out of the parking lot and drives nice and slow beside you (and your fifteen year old sister :shock making disgusting sexual remarks? OR what about when the SAME group of guys sits and watches you when you're out jogging and then decides it would be a good idea to FOLLOW you and yell about your 'fine ***'.

So I'm kind of fuming here because I'm absolutely disgusted, my hands are actually shaking I'm so mad. WHY is that considered 'acceptable' by these guys, and more importantly my sister who thinks it's normal. 

End rant... maybe.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Self defense focusing solely on crushing testicles...........:wink:


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## JaphyJaphy (Nov 15, 2012)

Sexual harassment is any unsolicited behavior of a sexual nature (even remotely), and these guys crossed "the line" long ago. I'm sorry that you're experiencing this. Their behavior is completely unacceptable.


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## xlionesss (Jan 30, 2012)

I suggest getting a license plate number and contacting police. It may be considered normal now a days, but who knows if these creeps find out where you live... Or maybe catch you off guard and really do something terrible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Its sexual harassment when they start talking badly to you- the following is stalking!! 

Tell them your married. If that dont work call the police! Thats scary!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I don't know about the legal ramifications. I only think of sexual harassment as being something to protect people in workplace situations.

however, having them following you, more than once, is rather threatening and I'd have my cell phone out , looking at their license plate number and dialing 911 if they don't leave you alone .


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

I stopped running in that area because I absolutely hate confrontation and I'm a 'freezer' so it never occurred to me to get a plate number. I'm almost certain that they're just young guys who think it's 'cool' to hit on girls in the street but there's always that chance, right? More than anything I'm just ticked off that they think it's okay.


(But yes, I'll be getting plate numbers if I see them again).


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## JaphyJaphy (Nov 15, 2012)

toto said:


> Its sexual harassment when they start talking badly to you- the following is stalking!!
> 
> Tell them your married. If that dont work call the police! Thats scary!


 They don't necessarily need to be saying "bad" things for it to be sexual harassment.


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## Le007 (Jan 7, 2013)

Anytime the comments make you feel uncomfortable, and/or were unsolicited - it's time to take action. 
I hope you contact local law enforcement and at least ask them what you should do.


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## Becca93 (Jan 22, 2009)

Does this happen on different occasions or as just a one off? Its definitely sexual harassment, and stalking - and if it is happening regularly I would definitely be calling the police.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

toto said:


> Its sexual harassment when they start talking badly to you- the following is stalking!!
> 
> Tell them your married. If that dont work call the police! Thats scary!


Like being married makes a difference to pervs? :twisted:

OP I would not suggest saying ANYTHING to them. I would however, make darn sure I got their plate number, pics with the cell phone if possible without them knowing, and call the cops-or, even better, if it is close-call cops while running in the direction of the station! Be super observant at all times-not just when you are running. I would be really careful that they are not following you at other times too. Sometimes if you act like you have no idea they are there (like when they follow you) you can somewhat surprise them if they get too close.....

I only got followed once, and it just happened that I was in an area that I probably should not have been in (sales calls for work at a MD;s office in a horrible neighborhood).....guy followed me to my car in a wide open area. I knew he was following me, walked fast and with purpose to my vehicle, which, at the time did not have auto locks, unfortunately. When I got to the vehicle, it was about 10 ft behind me. I had my keys between my knuckles in case I needed to hit him, turned to him really annoyed looking, and said in a very determined tone (and LOUDLY) "LEAVE ME ALONE. I have work to do." It caught him off guard that I would do that, and actually gave me time to get my key in the door and turn it before he reached for my wrist. As he reached, I pulled away, naturally, and noticed that he had handcuffs hanging from the wrist!:shock: I managed to get into my car, lock it and drive off......I was very very lucky. I called the cops immediately and let them know where he was, since either they lost him or someone else did! I went right back to the office and explained to my boss that I no longer considered that my "service" area, and if that was an issue, so be it.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Unfortunately, this is getting more common, but that doesn't make it okay at all.

Like others have said, next time you see them and they start making remarks/following you, get a plate number, the make and model of their car, pictures of them (or video) if you can, and call the police. Harassment is a crime and maybe a visit from the cops will be enough to get them to cool it. Even if they don't and something worse happens (to you or someone else), then there will be a record of their harrassing behavior and it will get them a stiffer jail sentence.

Unfortunately, God only gave men enough blood to think with one "head" at a time and young men tend to be more susceptable to gravity pulling the blood down lower. If they are in a group, they can often rile each other up enough to do something that they would not have done if by themselves.

I strongly believe that all women should have some sort of self defense training so that if something happens, they aren't _completely_ unprepared and they actually stand a chance of doing enough to get away from their attacker.


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## GamingGrrl (Jan 16, 2013)

Ugh, I hate the fact that girls have to be taught how to defend ourselves against creeps, instead of creeps learning to leave people alone. It's so backwards, but I do think that everyone should know how to defend themselves. Stay alert, stand up for yourself and be ready to run/fight, and if you feel threatened call the cops.
I hate that the world is this way. :-(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Roadyy (Feb 9, 2013)

Its a crying shame that there are still men in this world that will treat some of you women that way.

I have to agree that every person, not just women, who sees themselves as meek should take a basic course to help fend off the minor attacks. Fighting back in a major attack, huge or multiple attackers, may not serve much more purpose than collecting DNA to hopefully convict the perp once/if caught.


Incase you couldn't tell, all my blood is north of the belt line for this posting smrobs...


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Agreed, video, license plate, and cops. 

Also, carry some mace, if they are in range of the mace'um! ... Or maybe some rudimentary water balloons and kool aide...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

Unfortunately this is the natural behavior of young men. It's no different than male animals puffing themselves up and doing a dance to attract a mate. It takes a proper upbringing by their parents to suppress this kind of behavior. Doesn't help that some women not only expect this kind of behavior but also encourage it.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Take a cell phone and immediately call the police. Give them the license number or the vehicle, tell them how many boys and what they are saying. Do this every time it happens. I get sick of the male attitude "boys will be boys". Doing it once is one thing, more than once has crossed the line. When your on the line with the police, start yelling (not into the phone) "Stay away from me, Don't come any closer". Put on the hysterics. That should get the police moving.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Darrin, I don't agree with you. I don't think it's a 'natural behaviour' and if I were a young man I'd be incredibly offended that people still think that way. The area itself is heavily populated with young men, it's up and coming so there are multiple construction sites, and along the back there are factories and warehouses and they have all been perfectly respectful, it's the people who shouldn't be there at all that are behaving this way.

I think I'm just going to end up bringing my dog with me. I haven't until now because she's too distracted to be a good road walker, and the shoulder getting to the sidewalks is super narrow but while she's the absolute opposite of 'vicious' but she weighs close to 100lbs and will at least encourage them to keep their distance.


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

Alex, I'm not condoning the behavior in any way and think it's quite rude. What I do believe is it is what happens when not brought up with properly, ie taught manners/morals. 

Why do I say I suspect it's a natural behavior? I've spent a lot of time watching wildlife and males of all species put on some sort of display to attract females.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Not being brought up 'correctly' is no excuse to completely bypass the accepted norms of society. I would accept that as an excuse for someone raised with no or little human contact at all, but not the situation you are describing. I know many people who were raised in less than ideal situations, they may have 'problems' but none of them would dream of acting the way these young men have. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. :wink:


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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

Roadyy said:


> Its a crying shame that there are still men in this world that will treat some of you women that way.


It's also a crying shame that there are women in this world that treat men this way, or worse.  It's the state of the world we are living in, unfortunately, that it is acceptable for anyone to do whatever they want in the name of "not judging" or "acceptance" etc. Without any absolutes, as these people would say ("all things are relative"), then all things become permissible.

 I would get plate numbers if possible, or otherwise at least make a complaint to the police dept with descriptions of the "men" and what they have done, so that if you need to call again with another or greater concern, you can note that you have already filed a complaint once and need immediate action, etc.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

I might just get the information for the construction crews in the area. They're sitting in their trucks where it's clearly marked no trespassing (they actually had the nerve to drive past the empty security truck in the drive way to get there). I imagine with liability these days the managers wont be too happy to hear there are people ON their property and drinking on their property. It's worth a try, anyway.


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## Stan (Aug 25, 2011)

alexischristina said:


> I might just get the information for the construction crews in the area. They're sitting in their trucks where it's clearly marked no trespassing (they actually had the nerve to drive past the empty security truck in the drive way to get there). I imagine with liability these days the managers wont be too happy to hear there are people ON their property and drinking on their property. It's worth a try, anyway.


I believe if memory serves your sister was the car with you and passing comments not for publication. That would have given the wrong idea. As for males trying it on the behavour discribed is not acceptable and most would back off if ignored. At the age to be able to drive a car their upbringing has nothing to do with it. They are the type who have fitted into a catigory of being a pain and in need of being taken around the back of a building a shown the error of their ways.

If your phone can take a photo get shots of the driver and licence plate go to the police and complain. 

Don't take your sister with you untill she has gained some age and common sense. If I read it right she had hung out the window giving as good as she got then she placed you in the same assessment. Easy game. Sorry if it hurt your feelings but think about the big picture and in that her responce help to fan the fire so to speak.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

My sister and I were WALKING across a parking lot and down the street, I guarantee you neither she nor I gave them any cause to make comment. Where did you read that she 'gave it as good as we got'? :shock:


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Alex-first off, don't automatically think it is construction workers.....or generalize them in that category. Many of them are just good hard working guys with families and manners, just like teen age boys, girls or any other group. Some are good, some are not. Just the way it is.

And Stan-I don't care if her sister is dressed like a hooker and has a mouth like a truck driver. One bad behavior does NOT deserve another. There is no excuse for bad manners.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Frank, I said the area is full of construction workers who have never been anything but perfectly respectful. Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough. These are people who are using the construction sites (after hours) as somewhere to party.


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## Stan (Aug 25, 2011)

alexischristina said:


> My sister and I were WALKING across a parking lot and down the street, I guarantee you neither she nor I gave them any cause to make comment. Where did you read that she 'gave it as good as we got'? :shock:


 
I must have miss understood the first post and thought you two were in a car. Sorry. Take that out of the equasion and the rest of my comment stands Take the evidence to the police and complain.


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## Stan (Aug 25, 2011)

franknbeans said:


> Alex-first off, don't automatically think it is construction workers.....or generalize them in that category. Many of them are just good hard working guys with families and manners, just like teen age boys, girls or any other group. Some are good, some are not. Just the way it is.
> 
> And Stan-I don't care if her sister is dressed like a hooker and has a mouth like a truck driver. One bad behavior does NOT deserve another. There is no excuse for bad manners.


I agree with what you say, with a but, a bad behavour responded too by the same has the effect of escalating a situation to where common sence seems to go out the window with some people. I see it frequently in our courts with folks with an attitude, she said such and such, and gave me the impression that, and away it goes. NOT an excuse for bad behavour but untill one knows what mental state the other person is in the conversation and any like responce can escalate a given situation.

I made no comment on how the sister was dressed and mistakenly miss read the start which gave me the impression the sister gave as good as she got. (verbally) That was wrong of me and I stand corrected. As for having the mouth of a truck driver. I live rural and as such have a lot of contact with truck drivers. Logging, cattle, dairy etc. I don't consider truckers as having a bad mouth. That is not to say the odd one may vent now and again.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Darrin said:


> Unfortunately this is the natural behavior of young men. It's no different than male animals puffing themselves up and doing a dance to attract a mate. It takes a proper upbringing by their parents to suppress this kind of behavior. Doesn't help that some women not only expect this kind of behavior but also encourage it.


Ridiculous! Everyone knows how to behave. These are simply male *bullies *who enjoy asserting power and it makes it even better that the victim is upset.

To explain this as "natural" and "encouraged" is absurd. These boys need to be set straight by the legal system


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Stan said:


> I agree with what you say, with a but, a bad behavour responded too by the same has the effect of escalating a situation to where common sence seems to go out the window with some people. I see it frequently in our courts with folks with an attitude, she said such and such, and gave me the impression that, and away it goes. NOT an excuse for bad behavour but untill one knows what mental state the other person is in the conversation and any like responce can escalate a given situation.
> 
> I made no comment on how the sister was dressed and mistakenly miss read the start which gave me the impression the sister gave as good as she got. (verbally) That was wrong of me and I stand corrected. As for having the mouth of a truck driver. I live rural and as such have a lot of contact with truck drivers. Logging, cattle, dairy etc. I don't consider truckers as having a bad mouth. That is not to say the odd one may vent now and again.


You know what people with this kind of attitude say about this topic... "Well, she was wearing a miniskirt. If she didn't want to be raped she should of dressed more conservativly!" 

Blaming the actions of the perpetrator on the victim is utterly insane.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

It's one thing to whistle at an adult (and I am not encouraging it, but it isn't a crime), but to follow a teen, THAT is the part that is over the line, to me.

years ago, I worked at the Boeing company. in the factory, the guys would sometimes make catcalls at the women, from the scaffolding looking down on them. Rude, yes, but not scary. If they were to follow me, that would scare me.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Exactly, Tiny. I'm almost twenty but I don't LOOK much older than my sister (especially with my hair up and no make up on). My sister looks like a young fifteen year old, and even if she were walking up and down the street in a bikini top it's STILL grossly inappropriate, not just because she's still a child but also because it's just not 'okay'.

So what about my neighbour, who's no older than thirteen. Walking to the lake up the street in little swimming shorts and a tank top all by herself, would they do the same to _her?_ It's down right disgusting aside from being scary and inappropriate.


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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

Allison Finch said:


> Ridiculous! Everyone knows how to behave. These are simply male *bullies *who enjoy asserting power and it makes it even better that the victim is upset.
> 
> To explain this as "natural" and "encouraged" is absurd. These boys need to be set straight by the legal system


I want to emphasize again that there are PLENTY of women who act this way towards men. Just because stereotypically it is a man who comments on how a woman looks doesn't mean that it is solely men doing this, and I am sad for all of the genuinely good guys who get a bad wrap from a lot of honestly pretty disgusting girls. I think a lot of women have outright lost their sense of modesty and womanly-ness (a woman can be "manly" without losing her feminine qualities) and feel the need to act like men, which is disgusting to me. To assume everyone wants you and that anyone making any comments about the way you are dressed/acting/etc makes them the pig is really pretty insane. Is it appropriate for a person to make a vulgar comment about another person? Absolutely not. However, it is equally as inappropriate to have a vulgar mindset/personality and expect to be treated modestly.

This is not a reflection on OP or her sister. This is my general thoughts on how our unfortunate world has become. Plain evil and backwards, in my opinion.

ETA: I find this book extremely apropos: A Return to Modesty: Discovering the Lost Virtue: Wendy Shalit: 9780684863177: Amazon.com: Books


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

There are plenty of women who treat men poorly, but there are, unfortunately MORE men who act this way toward women. I think we need to acknowledge that it isn't a level playing field, the same sort of actions by women might seem more 'socially acceptable' but that doesn't take away from the fact that there are more men making inappropriate advances than there are women, women and young girls are much easier to victimize be it because we are _typically_ smaller and weaker than men are, but also because it's still largely encouraged that girls are supposed to be polite and just accept these situations as the norm.


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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

alexischristina said:


> There are plenty of women who treat men poorly, but there are, *unfortunately MORE men who act this way toward women*. I think we need to acknowledge that it isn't a level playing field, the same sort of actions by women might seem more 'socially acceptable' but that doesn't take away from the fact that there are more men making inappropriate advances than there are women, women and young girls are much easier to victimize be it because we are _typically_ smaller and weaker than men are, but also because it's still largely encouraged that girls are supposed to be polite and just accept these situations as the norm.



I'm not picking on you specifically, so please forgive me. I notice this a lot, and it irks me. How many people are there in the world now? Some 8 billion or so? And how many of them are men? Roughly half I would say. So there are hypothetically 4 billion men in the world... how many of them have you met? To categorize men or women as "all men"/"all women" or to say "there ARE more men doing this" etc seems a bit unfair. It would seem better to me to say "I have noticed more men than women doing this" rather than making an absolute about the whole situation and creating a statistic ie more men than women do this.

Please understand I think your situation is unfortunate and I think too many boys out there have completely lost their sense of dignity in the name of being "cool." I also think too many girls have lost their sense of modesty in the name of not being "prude." There is nothing new under the sun... these things have been happening for longer than I've been around, certainly. It's the state of our world.


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## Stan (Aug 25, 2011)

SlideStop said:


> You know what people with this kind of attitude say about this topic... "Well, she was wearing a miniskirt. If she didn't want to be raped she should of dressed more conservativly!"
> 
> Blaming the actions of the perpetrator on the victim is utterly insane.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
I don't see the connection between your responce to my comment you have highlighted earlier.

I have not commented on how she dressed, but with that in mind and not In refrence to the post in question. What is the driving force for women to apply make up if it is not to attract the interest of the opersit sex or to show her counterparts that she fronts up the best. Is it not to make others take a look and comment whether it be good or bad. Men do the same.

One notices people dress for the ocassion, so do a large number of sex workers Male or female, so if a person dresses in a manner as to draw attention to themself then along with that comes the negative comment if the style of clothing warrants, and is usually accompanied by a behavour making the intention clear.

It is often commented that a person should be able to wear what ever they liked to where ever they liked, and in a perfect world, why not. But we dont live in a perfect world and that is where common sence comes into play, or the lack of. I have not mentioned that the wearing of a mini skirt or hot pants should not be worn as it invites rape. 

How many rape cases are caused by clothing the women is wearing Not many as that is not the common driving force for a rape.

I also have not heard a lot of men stating if she did not want to be raped she should not have dressed that way. That is mostly stated by women who say, that is what men say, which is rubbish.

Oh, I once went out with a women who wore what at the time was called hotpaints. I got a buzz out of all the other males looking. She looked hot and had the shape to wear such an outfit. Never once thought she was dressing to get raped, but to get noticed, and attract the males, she sure did. Its what we all do to attract attention or a member of the oppersit sex.

Now off to talk about horses.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

RunSlideStop said:


> I want to emphasize again that there are PLENTY of women who act this way towards men. Just because stereotypically it is a man who comments on how a woman looks doesn't mean that it is solely men doing this, and I am sad for all of the genuinely good guys who get a bad wrap from a lot of honestly pretty disgusting girls. I think a lot of women have outright lost their sense of modesty and womanly-ness (a woman can be "manly" without losing her feminine qualities) and feel the need to act like men, which is disgusting to me. To assume everyone wants you and that anyone making any comments about the way you are dressed/acting/etc makes them the pig is really pretty insane. Is it appropriate for a person to make a vulgar comment about another person? Absolutely not. However, it is equally as inappropriate to have a vulgar mindset/personality and expect to be treated modestly.
> 
> This is not a reflection on OP or her sister. This is my general thoughts on how our unfortunate world has become. Plain evil and backwards, in my opinion.
> 
> ETA: I find this book extremely apropos: A Return to Modesty: Discovering the Lost Virtue: Wendy Shalit: 9780684863177: Amazon.com: Books


I think its sad that SOCIETY has lost its modesty. Look how we paper out lives all over, obcess over how we look and are SO interested in the lives of celebrities. For real, it all over the headlines if a Kardashian farts in public come... Come on now. 

I also think its sad you have such tight view on "womanly-ness" and gender roles. A woman can dress and act as she sees fit. I dress in guys cloths 80% of the time (i guess if your into labels you would call me a "****" or "soft butch"), I'll be the bread winner in my family and I have many "manly" traits. Guess what, doesn't matter if I'm gay or straight or famine or masculine, it doesn't make me any less of woman (or more of a "man") then the one you want to see scrubbing your floors, fetching beers and making sandwiches. It's 2013, women were not put on this earth to serve men. 

Also, in all my years alive I have yet to see a woman sexually harass man. I'm SURE it happens, but no where on the scale it does to women. 

Did you think they were having a whistling/cat call/vulgar language contest? Or maybe they have Tourette's? Come on. I don't know to many people who hang out car windows and repeatedly whistle and say vulgar things as a compliment. Who would they be doing it to if it were the OP, her sister or any other person walking down the road? And I wouldn't call this a MODEST act either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

> What is the driving force for women to apply make up if it is not to attract the interest of the opersit sex or to show her counterparts that she fronts up the best. Is it not to make others take a look and comment whether it be good or bad. Men do the same.


I don't do it for men or other girls and I honestly don't understand why so many people can't grasp the idea that a girl can dress up, do her make up, get her nails done, etc. all for herself. If someone feels comfortable and confident in clothing that's more masculine they are NOT inviting comments on their lack of femininity in the same way that a girl dressing in more 'revealing' clothing is NOT inviting sexual comments. 



> I also have not heard a lot of men stating if she did not want to be raped she should not have dressed that way. That is mostly stated by women who say, that is what men say, which is rubbish.


You hear it a lot, actually, from unrelated people who blame the victim. Not necessarily the rapist.


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## Stan (Aug 25, 2011)

alexischristina said:


> There are plenty of women who treat men poorly, but there are, unfortunately MORE men who act this way toward women. I think we need to acknowledge that it isn't a level playing field, the same sort of actions by women might seem more 'socially acceptable' but that doesn't take away from the fact that there are more men making inappropriate advances than there are women, women and young girls are much easier to victimize be it because we are _typically_ smaller and weaker than men are, but also because it's still largely encouraged that girls are supposed to be polite and just accept these situations as the norm.


Just to give a little insight into Womwn who treat men poorly. I have for a long time worked in law enforcement and here is a little fact that is not publicised.
In one country mine, last year the facts of who was responsable for child deaths was published. Women killed more children than men and this i'm affraid we are not alone in. It is a missconception that men are the most at risk of doing harm to others.

Charges of violence between men and women. Women assault men in greater numbers than men assault women. The trouble is men don't lay complaints against their girl friends or wives when she hauls off and hits, kicks, or acts in a threatening manner to wards him. Men don't lay the charges because they assume she was justified in her actions and also it is not taken seriously. The true numbers of men assaulted by women would shock you.

Back to my horses.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

We are not talking about abuse toward children, that is an entirely different subject.
And I'm also hesitant to believe that the number of women assaulting men far outweighs the number of men assaulting women, especially on a grand scale.


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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

SlideStop said:


> I think its sad that SOCIETY has lost its modesty. Look how we paper out lives all over, obcess over how we look and are SO interested in the lives of celebrities. For real, it all over the headlines if a Kardashian farts in public come... Come on now.
> 
> I also think its sad you have such tight view on "womanly-ness" and gender roles. A woman can dress and act as she sees fit. I dress in guys cloths 80% of the time (i guess if your into labels you would call me a "****" or "soft butch"), I'll be the bread winner in my family and I have many "manly" traits. Guess what, doesn't matter if I'm gay or straight or famine or masculine, it doesn't make me any less of woman (or more of a "man") then the one you want to see scrubbing your floors, fetching beers and making sandwiches. It's 2013, women were not put on this earth to serve men.
> 
> ...


I actually think we're on the same page here. I don't mean that if a woman dresses "like a man" that means she is not feminine. I live and work on the farm and rarely wear anything other than a t-shirt and jeans. I don't do my hair or wear makeup, and I don't carry a purse.

I find it interesting that you have a tight view of what it seems my views are to you. We need to be careful not to use Aristotelian "either/or" logic. It's not about you're a woman so you need to fulfill the woman gender role, you're a man so you need to fulfill the man gender role. It's about the fact that a man is literally not a woman, and a woman is literally not a man. Despite the "gender equality" card people like to play, the two genders are not equal. Does this mean one is greater than the other? No. This is where we need to lose the Aristotelian logic of thinking if something isn't one thing it must be another. People confuse role with value concerning gender, in my experience. If a woman stays home to take care of her children while her husband works, that does not mean she is of less value or doing any less work than her husband simply because he earns money. A woman can be manly without flaunting herself sexually or being vulgar. A man can be feminine without being confused for being gay. I think the most balanced people have qualities of both genders. Don't we ladies say we want a man who is affectionate and caring?

Regardless, my opinion is that women have become confused and think that in order to be liked in the world they need to act, think, dress, or speak in a vulgar manner. 

"man·ly 
/ˈmanlē/
Adjective
Having or denoting those good qualities traditionally associated with men, such as *courage and strength*.
(of an activity) Befitting a man, esp. in a traditional sense: "the manly art of knife-throwing"."

^ So as we can see, manly does not mean man-like. A woman can be courageous and strong without having a six pack and battling dragons. :lol:


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Stan, you said, in short, that one bad behavior will lead to the other person escalating their behavior, regardless of common sense. 

If a girl wears someone provocative it isn't lawfully bad, but can be mistaken as her being a "bad girl" or "wanting something". Well, then the perp escalates his behavior by doing whatever, cat calling to raping someone. Or take this for example, one person picks a verbal fight with another. The second person escalates to anything from physical assault to murder. Were the victims "asking for it"? No, but in the minds of the perpetrator that obviously isn't so. 

Do you think every time a woman gets dressed or puts on make up she is looking to pick someone up? Absolutely not. Our society is obsessed with looking good! When a girl dresses up she could, and probably is, looking to boost her self-esteem. People judge other so hard based on looks. It's not always about attracting a partner. 

Now, does it get people notice? Of course! I look, you look... We all look! But its one thing to look or sincerely compliment someone and another to whistle and yell vulgar things anyone no matter what do or don't look like.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

I think you're onto something, RSS. But I do think there are actions / words / etc. that a man can do or say and not garner a second glance, where if a woman did or said the same thing they would be called 'vulgar'. In the same way that a man in power will be called 'strong' or a 'boss' where a woman fulfilling the same job in the same way, performing the same actions might be called a 'demanding, naggy *****'.


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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

alexischristina said:


> I think you're onto something, RSS. But I do think there are actions / words / etc. that a man can do or say and not garner a second glance, where if a woman did or said the same thing they would be called 'vulgar'. In the same way that a man in power will be called 'strong' or a 'boss' where a woman fulfilling the same job in the same way, performing the same actions might be called a 'demanding, naggy *****'.


And thus, unfortunately, is the way of our silly world. :lol:


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## cakemom (Jul 4, 2010)

I am so glad I live in a town where men respect women and women respect themselves. 
When it made you uncomfortable and like a piece of meat hon, that's when it was harassment. 
I am known in my town as "oh, that sweet lady who has the smart kids- who by the way isn't sweet if you mess with her so leave her alone".
I would have already had plate numbers and if you are underage, as a parent I would have taken them to the police station. 
Women have caused some of this by taking themselves down off of the pedestal we were once on. It is a fine line between strong woman and treasure. In my home I am a treasure. In the world I am a strong woman who treats all equally- and am respected as such. My daughters and son are being raised to do the same. Lemme catch my son acting like that living in my house and he will clean every stall in every barn in can find for the next year.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

A very wise man once said: 


> Some girls do wrong without shame, and there are others who secretly and with apparently great modesty behave still worse than the former; and it is the same with shameful passions. There are many insincere maidens, such as: hypocrisy, vice, melancholy, the remembrance of injuries, disparagement of others in one’s heart. They appear to propose one thing, but they have something else in view.


As well as:


> ...the shamelessness of the feminine sex is checked by shyness as with a sort of bit. For if the woman were to run after the man, no flesh would be saved.


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## Stan (Aug 25, 2011)

alexischristina said:


> We are not talking about abuse toward children, that is an entirely different subject.
> And I'm also hesitant to believe that the number of women assaulting men far outweighs the number of men assaulting women, especially on a grand scale.


The figures came from england,cannada,usa and my own country. Try walking in law enforcemant or the probation service and you will after some experience have a change of heart. That is not to say men are not offending. But so are the women and in greater numbers and just as horrific. 

I read again some of my responces and noticed the amount of text quoted that I had written taken as a quote but without the surounding text to give it complete meaning. Thats how innocent people end up convicted.

I also noted when a full un biased opinon and observation was made not one of you jumped on it, and the reason was, because you could not find anything to score points off. So left it alone. Thats worth thinking about don't you think.

I do not in any way condone the actions of the males in the beginning of the thread and if any of you actually read I did say they deserved to be taken behind a building and tought some manners.

The comment was made it is their up bringing, how they were taught as children but I did not really want to get into that as a third of the kids are now being brought up in one parent families with the women being the primary, and in some cases, for reasons not of the own doing the only care giver. The boys from that situation have women as a role model That is worth thinking about don't you think. So if you accept that women have the primary years of caregiver to the male children is it not reasonable that the female has created the thing that is now being critisied. Men are what women make us are we not. 

And in passing, sexual harrasment and where is the line. If a man makes a pass at a women and if he through culture differences, child hood experiences, of just inability to communicate blunders and offends is it really sexual harrasment. If men don't ask, then they have to wait for the women to ask, and when they do would that be sexual harrasment or considered a hussy. In my book when my wife asked me to marry I was stoked and even said yes. She was not out of line.

I think I must deal with women who are far more outgoing, are not in competition with men, and the men I associate with have respect for the women and are happy to let them do their thing. Its called equality.

For the lady who started the thread as I said befor let the police deal with the issue and avoid that area untill they have. Good luck with it.

In leaving, only men can mentor boys, and other men.

Back to my horse.
I'm getting rid of my mare and keeping the gelding.


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

It has been my experience that men tend to behave as those the OP has described in numbers greater than one. That just makes it all the more spooky and it is not possible they are unaware of the spook factor. Personally, imo, there is nothing to be gained by being potentially spooked by or by standing your ground against groups of disturbed young men whilst jogging. I think it wise to just jog somewhere else. I would also at least consider filling out a police report.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Unfortunately the only other place for jogging is in a completely unmonitered park, lots of forest and few people around. I was actually out there last year and just as I started the trail I saw two guys pull up, split up and start the trails from different ends. It only takes about 8 minutes (running) to get all the way around, and once you're on the trail there's nowhere but straight ahead or back where you came from to go. It freaked me out, I just had a terrible feeling so I bush whacked my way out. Now it could have been 100% innocent, but you never know.

And then there's the whole other issue of coyotes, of which I have a huge (probably irrational) fear. I WISH I had other places to go, but I don't have enough time anymore to travel to the gym or to another set of trails.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

> So if you accept that women have the primary years of caregiver to the male children is it not reasonable that the female has created the thing that is now being critisied. Men are what women make us are we not.


I'm not sure what to think about that statement. I don't think it's reasonable to blame the mothers' when there is so much rape culture in social media, coming at people from all different angles, STILL promoting women as objects or more sexualized than men are. Men are not what they make of themselves, given the influences they receive inside AND outside of the home.



> If a man makes a pass at a women and if he through culture differences, child hood experiences, of just inability to communicate blunders and offends is it really sexual harrasment.


I believe there's a very very clear line between innocent blunders and sexual harassment. I don't agree that it's okay to 'make a pass' at anyone (if we're speaking in sexual tones, here). Making sexual remarks at a perfect stranger IS sexual harassment, yes.



> If men don't ask, then they have to wait for the women to ask, and when they do would that be sexual harrasment or considered a hussy. In my book when my wife asked me to marry I was stoked and even said yes. She was not out of line.


Your wife asking you to marry her certainly wasn't sexual harassment, Stan. Again, we're in completely different ballparks here... There's a big difference between relationships and shouting on the side of the street...


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

Allison Finch said:


> Ridiculous! Everyone knows how to behave. These are simply male *bullies *who enjoy asserting power and it makes it even better that the victim is upset.
> 
> To explain this as "natural" and "encouraged" is absurd. These boys need to be set straight by the legal system


Allison, once again you don't read what is said. To a point, I said they were not raised to know how to behave properly. Proper behavior is not ingrained in us at birth, it's taught to us. Absent proper upbringing people learn from their peers or go by their natural instincts which is often wrong and not proper in a civilized society. And yes, some are taught proper behavior but decide to go along with their baser instincts instead.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Darrin I don't think we should be talking about 'instincts' here. Men aren't wild animals completely lacking conscience or the ability for rational thought. I don't think there's such thing as a 'sexual harassment instinct'.


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

OP, I don't recall if you said these men were young but I am guessing they are. I work as an administrator in a high school. I deal with boys making poor decisions a lot, and they are much worse when in a group. 

I think it is all our responsibility to call these young men out on their behavior. It could be a life changing experience. I had 3 young men video themselves making rude gestures at a female teacher while she was bent over instructing another student. And they posted this video on the internet! When these boys were confronted and given consequences, they took it upon themselves to write letters of apology and apologize in person to the teacher and her family. It seemed like a genuine learning experience for them. 

Sometimes young people don't think, especially groups of young boys when it comes to sexual behaviors. Girls have their own issues: think "Mean Girls." But its all our jobs to say "No! Not okay!" so they learn. You sound like a confident, intelligent, courageous young woman who can handle this. I like your idea about contacting the property owners. I also agree with reporting to the police that these young men followed you. Finally, I think bringing your dog when running is a great idea. 

It stinks that we women have to worry about such things but we do. I used to run and ways took my dog when I was going to be vulnerable. Plus I always told people that asked that yes, she does bite even tho I didn't think she would. 
(She did once, when two guys came suddenly out of nowhere. Tore his sleeve off!)

Trust your instincts! I think they are dead on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stan (Aug 25, 2011)

alexischristina said:


> Darrin I don't think we should be talking about 'instincts' here. Men aren't wild animals completely lacking conscience or the ability for rational thought. I don't think there's such thing as a 'sexual harassment instinct'.


Actually that may be wrong. 
Take the modern words away from the act. Sexual Harassment. Now if you will go back in time to the beginning. you have humans acting on instinct. The way they express the need for sex as a primitive driving force may not be very different than the neanderthals encountered.

Take the attractant that exists in humans. the eye and more to the point the chemical. The way a man stands, does he presents as confident then how he looks and chemical. These are considerations women take into account when making a choice.

What attracts men to a women. Without standing on toes.
Men subcoinously can tell when a women is ovulating its in her look her presentation and chemical.

A recent study results on what attracts the sexes to each other had some results that were unexpected. When they tested men on which female they were attracted to unexpectedly all chose the women who was ovulating. They even had idenical twins, very attractive but only one was ovulating and the only one chosen. This result was 100 per cent the men tested chose only the ovulating women which supported the theory that the attractant between the sexes is animal instinct. 

So when you run into a neanderthal type male making comment that is to you unacceptable feel sorry for him because he can't help himself nature is the driving force. :shock:

Not to be taken as an attempt to take away from the men in question but more understnding on the over all driving force.

Back to my horse.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Fortunately men now a days have evolved and have more control and sense than 'animal instinct'. I, personally, will never accept an explanation like that for unacceptable behavior.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stan (Aug 25, 2011)

alexischristina said:


> Fortunately men now a days have evolved and have more control and sense than 'animal instinct'. I, personally, will never accept an explanation like that for unacceptable behavior.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 What I explained was the force that impresses on all men whether they know it or not it is an animal instinct.

I do not make excuse for the men you have issue with, as I said before and will say it again, taken behind a building and an attitude adjustment adminstered, can, at times have a lasting effect. But its been a good debate.

Cheers


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Allison Finch said:


> Ridiculous! Everyone knows how to behave. These are simply male *bullies *who enjoy asserting power and it makes it even better that the victim is upset.
> 
> To explain this as "natural" and "encouraged" is absurd. These boys need to be set straight by the legal system


I agree. Some forms of sexual harassment are intended to seduce or otherwise lead to an interaction, but the kind alex is describing really has nothing to do with sex itself - it is just idiots trying to prove what big manly men they are by intimidating women - no different than a playground bully, and the same kind of mental midgets that beat up homosexuals or wear white hoods...


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## Fort fireman (Mar 5, 2011)

alexischristina said:


> We are not talking about abuse toward children, that is an entirely different subject.
> And I'm also hesitant to believe that the number of women assaulting men far outweighs the number of men assaulting women, especially on a grand scale.


Believe it. The amount of assaults by a woman on a man out weigh the assault by a man to a woman. The reported assaults to law enforcement are usually the other way around however. Fact is most men don't want to report it for several reasons.


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## Fort fireman (Mar 5, 2011)

Stan said:


> What I explained was the force that impresses on all men whether they know it or not it is an animal instinct.
> 
> I do not make excuse for the men you have issue with, as I said before and will say it again, taken behind a building and an attitude adjustment adminstered, can, at times have a lasting effect. But its been a good debate.
> 
> Cheers


My grandpa used to always say. You can tell a person that has had a good ole asswhippin. They know how to treat people. :wink:


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Fort fireman said:


> Believe it. The amount of assaults by a woman on a man out weigh the assault by a man to a woman. The reported assaults to law enforcement are usually the other way around however. Fact is most men don't want to report it for several reasons.


John Bobbitt reported his...


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## Stan (Aug 25, 2011)

I must admit I have never been the subjected to sexual harassment by the fairer sex. What am I doing wrong.


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## doubleopi (Dec 27, 2011)

Muppetgirl said:


> Self defense focusing solely on crushing testicles...........:wink:


I like the "Jab, Grab, Twist and Pull"...practice with ping pong balls in a sock tied to a door handle...:lol:


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

You're evil!

*says this while rolling on the floor laughing and wondering where the closest sports store is that sells ping-pong balls.....and wondering if marbles would work instead*


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

smrobs said:


> You're evil!
> 
> *says this while rolling on the floor laughing and wondering where the closest sports store is that sells ping-pong balls.....and wondering if marbles would work instead*


Hard boiled eggs:hide::rofl:


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## Roadyy (Feb 9, 2013)

Stan said:


> I must admit I have never been the subjected to sexual harassment by the fairer sex. What am I doing wrong.


This Xs eleventybillion

Reminds me of a comment made by a girl that worked one of the stores I used to deliver to years ago. She was confronted about making snide remarks to a co-worker and the issue of harassment. She looked him straight in the eyes and said, but boss harassment nothing to me and walked away. She was let go that afternoon.


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## JaphyJaphy (Nov 15, 2012)

Stan said:


> I must admit I have never been the subjected to sexual harassment by the fairer sex. What am I doing wrong.


I find that comment very insensitive, especially in light of the topic of this thread. Shame on you.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Thank you Japhy, I found it incredibly distasteful but wasn't sure what to say. Some threads can turn around and take a more lighthearted approach, I don't think this is one of those subjects.


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## Stan (Aug 25, 2011)

JaphyJaphy said:


> I find that comment very insensitive, especially in light of the topic of this thread. Shame on you.


 It is not distastfull its a fact. I don't feel shame at all. And mature enough to realise that hashing it over and over is going no were. The comment was made to take it to the police and let them deal with the issue.

So JaphyJaphy I feel no shame, so don't try and put me on a guilt trip because I don't subscribe to what you want to hear/read.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

People are allowed to believe your comment was distasteful, regardless of whether you yourself feel the same way. :wink:


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## Stan (Aug 25, 2011)

alexischristina said:


> People are allowed to believe your comment was distasteful, regardless of whether you yourself feel the same way. :wink:


And of course that also applies to those that did not send out the emotional responce in the beginning but did gave good sound advice and comment. 

And to add insult to injury I have been sexually harassed but had fogotten about it. 

I once had my butt squeezed by a female. I was walking infront of a bunch of women in an up hill gradient on a walkway around cliffs at a beach. I was the warden in charge of a party of women completing a court ordered sentence. My butt was squeezed firmly  I turned to look at 10 women ranging in ages from 25 to 50 with smiles on there faces, and what could I say. Not a word. I had just been groped, touched up.

It was not invited nor was it warranted, how am I surposed to feel, or what do I do. 

Here is how I really felt Annoyed I could not do anything, annoyed as I did not know if it was one of the younger women, but I suspected it was one of the older ones. And absolutely estatic that they should think my butt was worth giving a squeeze, even though I was their warden.

You see, they knew I could not do anything about it, so took the advantage.

This is true I had forgotten about it. So I have to retract my statment I have not been sexually harassed, what am I doing wrong. ****, I have been groped.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

I've been harassed - a lot. I just don't think men think of it as the big deal that women do. While with SBA, I used to go on 30 or 40 overnight trips a year giving seminars on how to start a small business, business financing, accounting, and other business related subjects. I've had women follow me back to my hotel, corner me outside after the seminar, try to get in my car with me - you name it. I've also had women associates and even a woman boss hit on me (hard) on business trips to conventions and conferences. I don't normally wear my wedding ring as I am so physically active I am afraid I'll lose it, but I always wore it on those overnight trips or to conferences - didn't make a dang bit of difference.

As a boss for many years, I always took sexual harassment seriously when women complained about an employee, but honestly my personal opinion is that 90% of harassment complaints are bull hockey. The other 10% - the ones that scare a woman or affect her career in some way, are of course serious. But some of this is just crap - heck, I had an employee one time that wore short skirts, and she came to me and complained because one of her co-workers was always looking at her legs...good grief...


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## Bagheera (Apr 23, 2013)

Two years ago, I was at the stable I worked at when one of the young borders, she was maybe 16, came into the tack room and asked me to save her. Apparently a random group of boys showed up on the property and were hitting on the young riders at the stable. The barn was open to the public, so no one really paid attention when they first pulled in. I guess one of the boys had smacked her on the butt, making her really uncomfortable. I immediately went looking for the group of boys. When I found them I was greeted with something along the lines of, "Hey good looking." the kid didn't even get a chance to open his mouth again before I sent him and his friends packing. I told them they needed to leave immediately before I called the cops. They tried to protest but I told them they had five minutes to get off the property before I called the cops and filed a sexual harassment complaint. As they left in a hurry I suggested that they google the definition of sexual harassment and if I ever saw any of them again, they would be in deep [email protected] 

Sexual harassment is not something to let slide. If you don't nip it in the butt soon, the harassment will escalate. Please be smart and safe. Next time you see them, call the cops, get their license plate number, and try to record their actions on your phone. The more evidence you have against them, the better. Especially if they decide to retaliate after you call the cops on them. Hopefully they will learn their lesson the first time, but you can never be too cautious.


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

Huh, I didn't know men suffered so much sexual harassment. I guess it seems kind of funny to me only b/c I can't really picture it - outside of a certain element --- not that I don't believe it occurs, mind you. I mean, gees...where is their dignity!

I think there are a lot of cases common sense is not applied, and whether or not someone should engage in sexual harassment is irrelevant - they do. For example, when I was single I never went anywhere unescorted, whether w a girl friend, guy friend, or boyfriend - _never_. I would see, during that time, women that would enter a social gathering place "alone"...I always figured they had a whole lot more guts than I ever hoped to have - I don't care how "liberated" it is. But, really? I am not sure if that is courageous or plain stupid.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

At work yesterday I had an older man come in and refer to my manager and I as 'two roses in a bunch', in complete monotone he started describing how women are roses and men are the '****** on the rose' and ladies belong to their fathers to be handed to their husbands as precious flowers. Awkward, a touch creepy, but not sexual harassment. 

About six months ago, on the other hand, a customer came in early in the morning (some time between 4:45 and 5:15, it was very quiet and very dark) flirting and making such comments as "I shouldn't be doing this, I have a girlfriend." He then proceeded to sit outside the front door for over half an hour, came in twice, and once other customers started arriving finally left.

The difference between the two cases, IMO, is the tone used. Customer #2 sounded threatening, my coworker (thankfully I wasn't working alone) called our boss to come in early because she was honestly afraid he'd wait until one of us left and do something serious. The first customer, while creepy, just seemed a little 'off'. 

When I was in elementary school (having hit puberty earlier than the rest of my classmates) I was hounded DAILY because of my big boobs, to the point I didn't want to go to school. Eventually one of the boys pushed me and another caught me... by my chest with a full two-handed grab. To this day I'm 100% certain it was premeditated, but nobody did a thing about it.

One of my closest friends was held up against a wall in _elementary school_ and had her pants pulled down behind the school, while being told how fat and ugly her body was.

In High School despite feeling awkward about my body and wearing jeans and loose sweaters constantly I was jeered at by classmates, asked if I was a lesbian, how many people I'd slept with or if boys refused to touch me. One particularly 'charming' boy in my grade liked to grab my from behind (by the neck) and make rude comments- in a crowded hall way and _not a single person_ made a remark.

I don't think sexual harassment is ever something that should be taken lightly or made into a joke, regardless of whether or not it's happened to you, and I honestly don't doubt it happens to men often, and I agree Face, men _usually_ don't make as big a deal of it as women do, and while that doesn't make it any 'less' bad, it doesn't make it any 'more' right to make jokes, because regardless of how one person might feel about it, it happens way too often, and to way too many people and is definitely a BIG problem.



I wish I could find the link to a video I watched a couple weeks ago, of a young girl (in her teens, I assume) running around a field of professional athletes trying to grab their butts. All the men were laughing, but was that sexual harassment? Imagine if it had been a young boy running around grabbing the butts of female athletes... totally different story. It makes for a huge double standard and for that I am so sorry for the men who are sexually harassed, who are affected by it but who can't get support.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

alexischristina said:


> I wish I could find the link to a video I watched a couple weeks ago, of a young girl (in her teens, I assume) running around a field of professional athletes trying to grab their butts. All the men were laughing, but was that sexual harassment? Imagine if it had been a young boy running around grabbing the butts of female athletes... totally different story. It makes for a huge double standard and for that I am so sorry for the men who are sexually harassed, who are affected by it but who can't get support.


Well, I don't think for the most part that men NEED "support". Men being men, many of them sadly probably respond to the sexual advances in kind, but for those of us that don't, it is just no big deal - annoying, yes, but no big deal.

Women take it far more seriously, which is perfectly understandable - women have been used and abused sexually for 2 million years - long enough that it has become virtually an instinct for them to fear sexual assault...


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

I said for those who ARE affected by it, in general men might not need support, but you cannot say the same for ALL men.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stan (Aug 25, 2011)

alexischristina said:


> I said for those who ARE affected by it, in general men might not need support, but you cannot say the same for ALL men.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My not be able to say the same for all men but I have agree with Faceman I have been on the recieving end and did post the situation for comment, to which, the ladies did not. 

Most men take it in their stride and the enlightened ones understand women are as bad as men when it comes to giving messages to the oppersite sex and also take that in their stride. 

Have a look at body language for an example. It is subconcious but there is no mistaking the messages sent. Female facing a man if not interested will sit legs crossed pointing away. Interested the legs may be crossed but will point to the man, and if very interested the legs will point to the man and uncrossed.

I know the ladies are going to be up in arms over what I have just written and declair, no we don't, well yes you do, and men have known that for millions of years.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Well I can 100% say that no, Stan, I do not, lol. But again, this thread isn't about 'body language' or failed communication with the opposite sex (what were those boys _trying_ to communicate with me when they grabbed me by the neck from behind and said sexual things in my ear? Pretty sure they weren't trying to say 'I think you're pretty, and I like your personality).


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## Stan (Aug 25, 2011)

alexischristina said:


> Well I can 100% say that no, Stan, I do not, lol. But again, this thread isn't about 'body language' or failed communication with the opposite sex (what were those boys _trying_ to communicate with me when they grabbed me by the neck from behind and said sexual things in my ear? Pretty sure they weren't trying to say 'I think you're pretty, and I like your personality).


 
This thread is not about body language, or about what attracts the sexes to each other, but sexual harassment. The finger was pointed at men and when the men stood up and told their stories and experiences there is a noticable absence of reasonable response. If you have had male's put there arms around your neck from behind and talk of sex then I ask you this question. 

Why is it you did not complain to the police as you knew who the offender was. You could have brought that situation to a very abrupt end.

Sexual harassment is a broad term and can be applied to any action as it is in the mind of the person and relies on how, they percieve, what is sexual harassment. To you any advance may be considered as sexual harassment where another may consider the action as just some one trying it on. Some of us with wider experiences than yourself look at a wider picture.

Cheers alexischristina and now I guarantee you will notice the body language of others, and if honest with yourself, catch yourself out:shock: because body language is subconcious. Learn to read it, our horses do.

Give you an example one of my horses will approach me with caution even when only 20 feet away will stop and look. I take off my dark glasses and you can see the head lower and her body relax and walk up to me. She was reading my eyes. And when she could not see them was cautious. Body language again.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Where was the absence of reasonable response? Did the conversation not turn to the injustice men face when it is deemed unacceptae for them to seek help if they need it?

Stan, I was fifteen, other students and teachers saw and did nothing, please excuse me for being afraid there was nothing the police could do.

Also explain to me where I'm not looking 'at the wider picture' o.o
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Here is a chart of EEOC sexual harassment complaints filed and their resolutions. I'm not going to interpret them now, but if you look at the states you can draw some interesting conclusions...

Sexual Harassment Charges


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Its not sexual harassment if he grabs you by the throat- might have looked like he was joking with you to the people that couldnt hear him-- im not saying it was OK at all because its not but i just cant accept the fact that everyone would let that punk get away with that- hearing what you did.

I like to think of myself as 'tough' but if a situation come to head- ive got a very sharp knife and ive flicked it out before to scare shady people off.. i would definitely cary some kind of pepper spray if i didnt have my knife though.. ya never know.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

alexischristina said:


> When I was in elementary school (having hit puberty earlier than the rest of my classmates) I was hounded DAILY because of my big boobs, to the point I didn't want to go to school. Eventually one of the boys pushed me and another caught me... by my chest with a full two-handed grab. To this day I'm 100% certain it was premeditated, but nobody did a thing about it.
> 
> One of my closest friends was held up against a wall in _elementary school_ and had her pants pulled down behind the school, while being told how fat and ugly her body was.


I unfortunately can relate. I was manhandled as a child.. something I was punished for when I decided to fight back. Some older guys were bullying my older brother. I of course defended him and the leader of the pack proceeded to use his forearm to choke me against a chain link fence and run his free hand down my body. I, of course, but his forearm and was suspended.

I wasn't even 7 years old.

How the **** is that a natural instinct? I'm guessing he saw someone in his life doing that to another girl.

Which brings me to my own flesh and blood cousin. He sexually assaulted me from a young age until I turned 13 and refused to visit him anymore. He affected me so badly that I still can't full relax. Even in the bath-tub. 

Girls wear clothes that make themselves feel good. They rarely wear them for others, unless they have to (a job for instance may have a uniform that isn't very covering)

I've also seen women come onto men. Some of them like it, some of them recoil. It's unfair to assume they enjoy it, because more often than not they don't.

Also we are way more developed than most animals. We cannot use that excuse for bad behavior.

While I'm on a roll I should mention that I did something really stupid, and thankfully it didn't bite me in the butt. I flew 7,000 miles and stayed in a state I've never been to and met up with someone I had never met. Never once did he do anything that set off my paranoid radar. Never once did he make any advances that I felt I was in any danger. He was the perfect gentleman.

So the fact some people say that it's instinct to behave this erratically and this disgustingly.. you are wrong.


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