# Denny, 02.21.09



## saraequestrian (Dec 4, 2007)

he's moving out really nicely!


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I see allot of stiff inside rein. You are not giving what-so-ever with your inside rein at all, you aren't rewarding him or aiding him to carry and support himself when you hold that inside rein so much.

The outside rein is where most of the function comes from. The outside rein aids in the controll of tempo, speed. It keeps the outside shoulder under your horse, and it is your turning rein as well.

You must learn to drive inside leg, into outside rein - so that your horse can learn to carry himself.

Too much inside rein, creates a stiff, on the muscle horse - with no release from his rider.

The moment he gives to you, you must give back.

I also see your leather way too long. You reach for your toe often and you are gripping your knees in response. Your leathers should be at the correct length to give you a strong base of security in your tack. Your leathe should be at the correct length, whether doing dressage or jumping - so that your knees don't have to be the part of your body you rely on for comfort. Your heels must beable to do their job...always. 

When your leathe are too long, you search for other avenues for security. Knees, toes.

Also, your seat isn't being permitted to do its job when you have to reach for your toes.

I also see too much head tilt to the inside, again - way to much inside rein. He should be on the outside rein. When he has to carry his head to the inside, or to the outside - a shoulder ends up popping. Here, his outside shoulder is popping.

You never ask for a bend or turn with your inside rein. You use your inside leg, your seat bone and outside rein. 

He is on the forehand, but with more function with your lower leg, and proper hand carraige, you can learn to lift him up and into you.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

I've looked at these pictures and the ones in the other thread and there is one major common denominator in all of the pictures. He is moving downhill with a tucked in nose and tense frame. You are also perched.
The reason for all of this is your hands. They are pulling constantly in there is never relief for your horse's mouth. Notice how his lips are completely dry, there is not even a hint of the line of white foam we want.
There are minor position flaws that are completely secondary to your hands. Get off your horse's face and he will thank you for releasing the death grip. Put your hands on your saddle, or put a bucking strap onto it and hold onto that with your reins, but basically just stop pulling. Your horse's head/neck is like 175 pounds, you aren't going to hold it up, and if he ever decides he's sick of you hauling on him then off you go over his shoulders.
It is a really really bad habit to pull all the time and it's going to be tough to break but overall it's really going to help your riding, which is otherwise good.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

MIEventer said:


> I see allot of stiff inside rein. You are not giving what-so-ever with your inside rein at all, you aren't rewarding him or aiding him to carry and support himself when you hold that inside rein so much.
> 
> The outside rein is where most of the function comes from. The outside rein aids in the controll of tempo, speed. It keeps the outside shoulder under your horse, and it is your turning rein as well.
> 
> ...


Please note that Denny has only been off the track since September, and in that time has been on stall rest for 3 months.
Also we weren't focusing much on schooling at that particular moment.. haha
I am really having a hard time seeing what you've posted about.. being too heavy on the inside rein. Perhaps I'm just jaded, but I see contact, but not too much or too little.
Not to say I wouldn't like to see him working longer and lower.
Denny was a little.. okay, very forward yesterday.. I'm surprised at the pictures actually... I would have thought they would have come out a lot different.
I have also probably been taught slightly differently than you regarding the inside rein 
More than one way to skin a cat 
Perhaps I am completely missing some of these things... and I thank you for the critique... but I don't see a lot of what you've posted...
I do not see him popping his shoulder in any of the pictures, nor tilting his nose funny... if you could point out which pictures you're referring to that would be great


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> I've looked at these pictures and the ones in the other thread and there is one major common denominator in all of the pictures. He is moving downhill with a tucked in nose and tense frame. You are also perched.
> The reason for all of this is your hands. They are pulling constantly in there is never relief for your horse's mouth. Notice how his lips are completely dry, there is not even a hint of the line of white foam we want.
> There are minor position flaws that are completely secondary to your hands. Get off your horse's face and he will thank you for releasing the death grip. Put your hands on your saddle, or put a bucking strap onto it and hold onto that with your reins, but basically just stop pulling. Your horse's head/neck is like 175 pounds, you aren't going to hold it up, and if he ever decides he's sick of you hauling on him then off you go over his shoulders.
> It is a really really bad habit to pull all the time and it's going to be tough to break but overall it's really going to help your riding, which is otherwise good.


I really am failing to see the whole "death grip" thing. I have never had hard hands; what I have in those photos is "contact" not "pulling." I move my hands with my horse, and do not have a constant heavy hand on him. 
As for his lips... out of the 4 horses that I have personally owned, only one has ever produced foamy saliva. Not producing foamy saliva does not mean that the horse's mouth is constantly pulled at.
In addition, I rode him yesterday for a grand total of 5 minutes. 
Regarding the "perching"... I was trying to stay off his back so he could really use it to get through the snow. More of a half seat.

If I honestly saw my faults in these pictures, of course I would own up to them.. but I don't... at all.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

JustDressageIt said:


> I really am failing to see the whole "death grip" thing. I have never had hard hands; what I have in those photos is "contact" not "pulling." I move my hands with my horse, and do not have a constant heavy hand on him.
> As for his lips... out of the 4 horses that I have personally owned, only one has ever produced foamy saliva. Not producing foamy saliva does not mean that the horse's mouth is constantly pulled at.
> In addition, I rode him yesterday for a grand total of 5 minutes.
> 
> If I honestly saw my faults in these pictures, of course I would own up to them.. but I don't... at all.


First of all, you posted in the "Critique Me" section. If you want to hear about buns and roses and butterflies, there is a pictures section.
Second, you posted in the "Critique Me" section. If you do not want my opinion and the opinions of others about your riding, then there is a pictures section.
Third, just because the 4 horses that you have owned and ridden have not given a good wet mouth does not mean that it is not good and correct. It is a very biased sample because you have probably pulled on all of them.
Finally, you are pulling. The first stage is acceptance.

That is all


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> First of all, you posted in the "Critique Me" section. If you want to hear about buns and roses and butterflies, there is a pictures section.
> Second, you posted in the "Critique Me" section. If you do not want my opinion and the opinions of others about your riding, then there is a pictures section.
> Third, just because the 4 horses that you have owned and ridden have not given a good wet mouth does not mean that it is not good and correct. It is a very biased sample because you have probably pulled on all of them.
> Finally, you are pulling. The first stage is acceptance.
> ...


Not all horses produce white foamy saliva. Just because a horse doesn't isn't incorrect. That is very linear thinking on your part, because you have been taught that foam=good, when in fact it doesn't make a blind bit of difference.
I have never once had a comment about my hands being hard, or pulling. What I have is contact. 
You are MORE than welcome to critique, but as it is stated in the rules, how about trying the whole "constructive" part of it? 
I am not looking for rainbows and bunnies, but I do know my riding and am confident that I do not lean on my horse's face.


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## Skyhuntress (Sep 9, 2008)

JustDressageIt said:


> Not all horses produce white foamy saliva. Just because a horse doesn't isn't incorrect. That is very linear thinking on your part, because you have been taught that foam=good, when in fact it doesn't make a blind bit of difference.
> I have never once had a comment about my hands being hard, or pulling. What I have is contact.
> You are MORE than welcome to critique, but as it is stated in the rules, how about trying the whole "constructive" part of it?
> I am not looking for rainbows and bunnies, but I do know my riding and am confident that I do not lean on my horse's face.


 Not all horses produce foam. But the vast majority of them do once they loosen their jaw, since there is a saliva duct behind the throat. In terms of general statements, foam=good, because it shows that the jaw is relaxed. no foam=bad, because it shows a tense horse with a tense jaw. Now those are just blanket statements, because there's an exception to every rule and an exception to every exception, but generally speaking, its one of the first things you look for if you're looking at a supple horse


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Fair enough, Skyhuntress. But the allegation that my hard hands created his lack of foam is a little ludacrous, especially considering that I rode him for all of... 5 minutes, tops.

ETA - when I think back on it... most people that see me ride comment on how soft my hands are.. hm.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Thank you Skyhuntress, also considering the horse being consistently behind the vertical and exhibiting tension in the topline, we can assume that the horse is infact NOT supple.

And OP, well NOW you are hearing that you have hard hands and lean on your horse's face. It is my critique. You can either take or leave it but you don't have to argue on some internet forum about it. You asked for my opinion, you got it. I phrased it constructively if you would care to read in a more open minded fashion. If you would like to continue arguing then you can PM me otherwise I'll just pass you the salt now.


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## Moxie (May 28, 2008)

Allie, thus far the ones who really KNOW you, and love you have yet to ring in. Dont let those who have commented before bring you down. I would agree on the perched part, but you and I have discussed this.

As far as the rudeness, lets keep things constructive. Allie DID post in the critique for some constructive criticism, so lets give her exactly that, minus the attitude.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

MIEventer said:


> I see allot of stiff inside rein. You are not giving what-so-ever with your inside rein at all, you aren't rewarding him or aiding him to carry and support himself when you hold that inside rein so much.
> 
> The outside rein is where most of the function comes from. The outside rein aids in the controll of tempo, speed. It keeps the outside shoulder under your horse, and it is your turning rein as well.
> 
> ...



I was going to post my critique but after going through what has already been posted, I can't help but disagree with this review and will respond according to it.

First off I really like her eye. She is looking up and around the corner in her direction of travel and her body is also reflecting it.

Her back is nice and straight and her seat is quite light as she uses her half seat in some of the shots. Her shoulder and chest could be slightly more but is still correct.

Her inside leg is aiding for the bend pushing him into that outside rein. Her inside shoulder is also where it needs to be in order to keep the rest of her upper body traveling in that same direction of travel. I don't find a "stiff inside rein" being an educated remark, what does it mean? you CANNOT make a turn around a corner without having that inside bend in the neck. Her hand is firm but it is supple. The horse's head would be traveling with his head in his chest if it were not the case. He does not appear like he is protesting, shaking his head or showing any other signs of discomfort from "her pulling on his face".

On a side note...didn't realise a rider's grip strength was measured on a horse's salivation rate(please provide the equasion for my further critiques) 

The horse is traveling in a proper frame(which is quite good as this particular horse has very little training and fresh off the race track). This horse appears to be traveling quite uphill tho it is difficult to judge as he is moving on uneven terrain. He appears a little tense on the last trotting photo but he is otherwise moving forward and off the leg in the rest of the photos provided.

Her wrist are fantastic tho lifting them up ever so slightly would help prevent breaking that line from the bit to the elbow. Refreshing to see a rider holding on to her reins instead of the common mistake of not closing the fingers which you see in a lot of riders.

Again, repetitive comments about the inside rein which I cannot make sense of. Her inside leg as posted above is pushing him into that corner quite well. Her aids appear correct as he is moving forward quite nicely all while tracking up and bending in the neck (without moving in a false frame). 

The length of her stirrup for the flat work she is doing is correct but would need correcting(shortening) IF she were jumping, which in this case, she is not.

The tack is clean without any obvious damage. I really like to see him being ridden in a loose ring snaffle, again quite impressive for a thoroughbred that has just come off the track. The saddle tho the right size for the rider, does not appear to be providing all the support a jumping saddle should provide but the rider is doing well despite that.

A lovely horse that well on his way to becoming an head turning little Hunter.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

oops, double posted.


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## upsidedown (Jul 10, 2008)

I just have to say IMO: 
criticism: Your doing it wrong. You fail.
constructive criticism: If your doing [blank] this way, you should do it [blank] way.

It didn't appear to me that anyone was being particularly rude.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Kelly, that was a very thorough and very helpful critique, thank you muchly.

I need someone to stand in the middle of the ring and yell at me when I break my wrists... haha


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## MrsB (Dec 2, 2008)

For a horse thats only been off the track for such a short amount of time I think you look lovely!

As you mentioned your hands do need to come up, with thumbs on top, but also work on keeping your fingers closed. This should encourage you to sit just that little bit taller.

When I look at your pictures it reminds me very much of my own riding in the past. Whilst your hands may look and feel light, the contact looks heavy so just be wary of the horse taking the reins from you, and relying on them for balance

You may like to look at doing more exercises which work on engaging the hind quaters, inclding transitions . This will help tremendously with your contact and finding that right outline/frame.

Good luck! He's a lovely looking boy and I can see him improving in leaps and bounds


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Definitely. Thank you MrsB. That was very helpful. 



Denny definitely likes to have contact, and seeks that. I will have to work on getting him to stretch so he doesn't rely on my hands to hold a frame... but being that he's only been in training off the track for a short period, I am very impressed with him.
I do feel that my contact is light (but maintaining contact).
My trainer has been after me to keep contact rather than letting the reins slip through my fingers so Denny won't balance on me.
I will also be working towards getting a deeper seat; I as mostly riding in a half seat that day because he was working so hard to get through the snow.


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## Jubilee Rose (May 28, 2008)

Alright guys, so how about we just drop the whole "hard hands" thing now. If someone asks for critique and disagrees with what you suggest, it is their decision to take or leave what you say. It isn't necessary to argue about who is right. The original poster can do what they want with your suggestions. And from the other perspective let's try to keep an open-mind. 

Critiquing means _constructive_ criticism but also being sensitive to others and trying to convey our criticism in a way that is helpful but still encouraging. I think the critique section is great for that. Just a thought to keep in mind.

Alrighty-- mod rant over. Continue on. :wink:


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## MrsB (Dec 2, 2008)

Silly me JDI, I didnt take into account the snow (seeing as Ive never seen it in real life haha).

My boy is very similar in seeking the reins though. Which is why I found the transitions and other hindquater engaging exercises.


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

I'd thought I'd through some thoughts into here, because I've ridden my fair share of fresh OTTBs. ...And racehorses. Ugh!

I can see that your hands are attempting a contact--light but there, where the reins are still somewhat taunt but the horse isn't cranked behind the vertical. However-- with the short time he's been off the track and actually in work, I do not think /he/ is ready for the amount of contact you are trying to give.

Relaxation always comes first. For a horse to tuck his nose behind the vertical, he has to be tense in his jaw. If he is tense in his jaw, good chances are he is tense somewhere else. In order for a horse to push his body and carry it correctly, the push has to move through an elastic back, up and out of the poll. When his head is behind the vertical, you put a kink in the 'flow'.

If he is rushing, he is either nervous or unbalanced. One or the other, not something else. If he typically rushes at the canter, it is not always a 'oh he was a race horse' deal--most racehorses aren't taught to carry themselves they're just taught to run. I would leave canter work out of his workouts for a while. Above all other horses, OTTBs really need a lot of correct trot work until they can canter. The canter is the test of your walk and trot--if they are not solid, the canter won't be either.

By creating the contact you are helping him lean on your hands for support. At this moment he is not ready, mentally or physically, for contact. He may /want/ it because that's how race horses are trained, but he really just wants the crutch part of it, where he can set against it, no matter how light.

I would personally forget about his head altogether and get him to move relaxed in every gait--you can expect him to reach for the bit until he can be relaxed. Long and low work is an absolute must--he has to start now, to free up his back and allow him to learn to relax his muscles. Think about race horse training... they are taught to be tense and taunt all the time, so you're going to have to overcome that before you can worry about his head.

Of course, you don't let him start gaze. If he roots his nose out, you just ask for soft, lateral bends in the neck until he relaxes. When he does, the head and neck will come down. You want to work him low and stretching before you ever start to bring his head up--but you don't ever ask for the nose to come under the poll. That's his job--not yours. The reins have a lot of jobs, and have to tell him a lot of things--when you start telling him that a slight pull means 'put your head here', then the squeeze of your fingers for a half halt doesn't really mean anything but, 'keep your head here'.

By working him in a lower frame, you will teach him to stretch his neck forward and out. Eventually it will be forward and into the contact, and the push of your legs and seat will not mean, 'run away', it will begin to mean, 'push your energy up to my hands, please!' And when you find that the back end is connected to your hands... THAT is when you take up your contact. Mainly because you won't have to--he will be doing it for you. A higher neck is never a result of your hands--it is always from proper training.

Let him move out at the canter when you get there, perhaps more then you think is correct. No rushing, but let it have a lot of impulsion. TBs don't understand 'canter slower, please'. That just means, 'lean on the hands and canter on the forehand.' Only begin with a circle or two of the canter. The moment he begins to rush away, or get crappy, just ask him to go back to a trot. Horses were born with knowing how to canter with us on their back. 

With that being said, I don't think he's the most tense, crappiest horse I've ever seen.  I just think you have the potential to be riding your horse better then the general population's method of 'hold the head, push with the legs'. He's a pretty horse and I think you've got something nice on your hands as long as you are careful with him.

Now, for you. 

I'm sure a lot of people will slam you for your heels, but I don't like the traditional 'cram your heel down' method. I would like to see JUST a little more bend in your ankle, which will be achieved when you pull your thigh back (not your calf!) and push down. That should get your heel back where it belongs, which it often creeps too far forward.

Now I could be incorrect, but it also looks like you post out of your stirrups, and not from the leg/thigh. When you're in your trot photos, that's where it looks like the weight is on your toes--because you're posting, I would assume?

Don't think about trying to pull your shoulders back to straighten your back. Think about puffing out the bottom of your sternum. Ride like 'a capital D', with the straight part being your back of course.  Helps me a lot!

I hope this helps! I tried to be as constructive as possible.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

The problem with a picture is that it doesn't show what what went before or what came after but I agree that there is probably too much contact for where this horse is in its training level. What I see is a horse that needs more suppling before it is ridden above the walk. I get the impression that if contact is dropped on the inside rein (to relieve constant pressure) the horse would fall apart. If this was done quite possibily there may have been some whiteness around the mouth.

What I look for is the interplay of muscles within the neck and I see only a small inkling of this in the third picture. The other pictures the underside of the neck is clearly pushing up against the bit. I soft drop of the inside rein for a stride will go a long way to encourage the horse to relax.

With the history of this horse I personally would have stayed with the walk doing a ton of bends turns and encouraging of the horse to give to the bit.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Oooh, I KNEW this would be a good thread as soon as it came up. I also knew there was NO way I could say anything useful, but I'm trolling here, made my own silent critique and watched to see what others would say. Not doing that to be rude; I simply don't have the technical background to open my mouth here! This is a great learning thread for me.



mayfieldk said:


> I'm sure a lot of people will slam you for your heels, but I don't like the traditional 'cram your heel down' method. I would like to see JUST a little more bend in your ankle, which will be achieved when you pull your thigh back (not your calf!) and push down. That should get your heel back where it belongs, which it often creeps too far forward.


I love this statement mayfield... I hope I remember it when I finally get to go out again. I always feel like I sit too far forward and this way of thinking about seat I think will really help me!


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Thank you for the great critique MayfieldK. That was really helpful.

I will try and answer some statements/questions:

- I am working on suppling with him; like I stated before, this was a impromptu riding photoshoot where I grabbed the saddle and went. His leg (injury) wasn't wrapped and I didn't want him to have to move around in the snow too too much. I only rode for about 5 mins, and didn't really worry about him, I just wanted some neat photos. 

- Regarding the posting: I was completely out of my element in the snow. It was deep and he was really really moving under me; I tried to keep up as best I could. Of course that's no excuse, I am just explaining the circumstance. I post from my thigh in a normal circumstance.

- My heels.... hm. I have gotten fairly stiff, used to have more flexion, but I don't want to cram them down and create problems with the rest of my leg. I might try shortening my stirrups a hole. 

- His canter is actually quite balanced to the right, but to the left he is rushy. I don't canter him much because I want to work on suppling and getting a strong, balanced trot first, as suggested.

- I am a control freak. Self admittedly so. I need to just chill. I need to follow my own advice (as I have posted in the past) and just forget about his head and focus on the rest of his body; the head will follow. 

- I will definitely try the D sternum thing (aren't I technical!); my lower back has always been a problem; I'm conformationally incorrect there 

Thank you for your input, I will definitely get back to basics.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

JustDressageIt said:


> - My heels.... hm. I have gotten fairly stiff, used to have more flexion, but I don't want to cram them down and create problems with the rest of my leg. I might try shortening my stirrups a hole.


....You are getting old....


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

farmpony84 said:


> ....You are getting old....


Sad but true.


I have decided that if I am going to have kids, I should have them before I'm 30, otherwise my body might just go kaput on me.... plus, wheelchairs only go so fast.


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## morganshow11 (Dec 19, 2008)

I'm just cirious why you shaved him in winter!?!?!?~!


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

morganshow11 said:


> I'm just cirious why you shaved him in winter!?!?!?~!


I work him hard when I actually work him, and he sweats up a storm, and takes forever to cool and dry off. Shaving him means that he doesn't heat up as much, and takes shorter to cool down, so he doesn't catch cold.
He's blanketed up the ying yang, don't worry


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

farmpony84 said:


> ....You are getting old....


Your a fine one to talk *OLD* Farmpony !!!!


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## SallyRC123 (Aug 22, 2008)

Wow! His feet must be cold =]


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## morganshow11 (Dec 19, 2008)

JustDressageIt said:


> I work him hard when I actually work him, and he sweats up a storm, and takes forever to cool and dry off. Shaving him means that he doesn't heat up as much, and takes shorter to cool down, so he doesn't catch cold.
> He's blanketed up the ying yang, don't worry


 lol! ok


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## saraequestrian (Dec 4, 2007)

i really really like denny 
no critique as I feel you've been slammed with them. 

I have to disagree with one of the other posters. I think the inside rein is really important. It controls the frame and keeps the bend. 
JDI, you look like you're riding your hands the way I was taught . Outside against the neck to keep the shoulder from popping and the inside to keep the bend. While I do think you should do the whole long and low thing for now, I don't think you guys look awful at all! I also own an OTTB and i think they are the best horses to work with... after you get past the kookiness 
Keep up the good work!


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

saraequestrian, thank you for your very positive post, thank you. After those other posts I was feeling a little slammed haha. So thank you.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

> I think the inside rein is really important. It controls the frame and keeps the bend.
> JDI, you look like you're riding your hands the way I was taught .


Inside rein has very little function. Everything comes from inside leg into outsdie rein. The bend comes from their ribs. Your inside leg and your seat bone.

The insid rein has a bit of function, but you must give with it. You cannot hold that inside rein so much.

I think spyder gave a good post.

My coach does say "if you cannot do it at the walk, you have no business doing it at the trot. If you cannot do it at the trot, you have no business doing it at the canter"

I would be interested to see what Denny's mouth does without that figure 8 on his face.

See his lips pursed.....especially the inside of his mouth - is showing too much inside rein.

~~~~

You have recieved some very good critiques - take them how you want. 

This isn't about you - this is about you being the rider you need to be, to bring out the best in your animal.

I've ridden and worked with quite a few OTTB's. I've had them from the age of 2, right off the track, to the age of 9 and green broke. I've owned, competed and worked with a handful of them. I fully understand the concept of working with these animals, their issues and faults.

It is up to you, with what you want do with the advice given. Remember, we as riders are here to do the best we can for our horses, to aid them and to support them - they rely on us. We only know what we know - only what we are shown and taught. 

It is up to us to take that responsibllity, and branch out to other avenes, ideas and approaches - to help build us and shape us into a, much more educated rider/horse person.

They are only as good as we are.

I don't think people are being harsh - they are only concerned for both you and your horse. You asked for advice, advice was given.

Now, that the ball is in your court - the rest is up to you.


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## XxXequinegrlXxX (May 24, 2008)

hehe you know i love Denny! I think he is looking pretty good! You have gotten enough critique so none from me  

i think you know what you are doing and he will turn out to be a very nice horse.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

I always find it interesting that those who won't post photos of themselves always all these things to say. I think in order for one to have so much to say there should be evidence of what it being preached.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Actually, the figure 8 is just for show. The noseband is as loose as it could possibly be without looking sloppy. He works absolutely fine in a regular cavesson, I just love the look of figure 8 bridles. 

I will take the advice I will and apply it as I see fit. 

There are ways of critiquing without coming across as condescending in a "better than thou" way.

Thank you Equinegrl  he's a wonderful horse to work with.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

And as I said before, there is more than one way to skin a cat; some of you have been taught to ride on the outside rein, I have been taught to ask for bend through the inside rein. I use my outside rein for support (we're still working on the whole popping shoulder bit) but my inside rein asks for suppleness.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

MIEventer said:


> Inside rein has very little function. Everything comes from inside leg into outsdie rein. The bend comes from their ribs. Your inside leg and your seat bone.
> 
> The insid rein has a bit of function, but you must give with it. You cannot hold that inside rein so much.
> 
> ...


Why are you repeating yourself?


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

JustDressageIt said:


> And as I said before, there is more than one way to skin a cat; some of you have been taught to ride on the outside rein, I have been taught to ask for bend through the inside rein. I use my outside rein for support (we're still working on the whole popping shoulder bit) but my inside rein asks for suppleness.


Yes and no however from your post 37 I will say no more.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

If you can say it nicely, you're more than welcome to. 
I did not explain myself well, and won't bother to. You are welcome to interpret what I said as you please. 

There is more than one way to ride a horse.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

I honestly can't remember anybody's post on the critique section getting slammed this hard in a long time.
Here I was, thinking I was doin' ok.

Like I said, there is a good way of critiquing, and there is a "holier than thou" way... a_ lot_ of you have come off as the latter. It is not appreciated.

I am not looking for "rainbows and butterflies" but.. goodness, use some tact! 

I have thanked those whose critiques I found very helpful.

If you have anything HELPFUL to say, then please speak up.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

JustDressageIt said:


> I have thanked those whose critiques I found very helpful.


So I noticed.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

MayfieldK did an amazing critique. She was very very helpful. CacheDawnTaxes did a very very thorough critique, and she was actually there watching my ride. I'm pretty sure she would have spoken up if I had been hard on his mouth. I am also fairly sure she asked me to gather up more rein a couple times because it was too loose. (I am not saying that she was instructing me for these pictures.)

ETA - there are some more members that had some great remarks, but I can't remember you all off the top of my head. Sorry.

There is a way to critique someone so they will actually absorb what you're trying to say, and there's a way to critique someone to belittle them.

I of course acknowledged those posters who dropped by to say that Denny is looking good; I appreciate it and it would have been rude of me to ignore them.

There are certain members here who have just repeated things over and over, and not changed how they were saying things, and ONLY pointed out the negative and drilled into those perceptions. Once they noticed I was getting frustrated, they didn't try and change how they were saying things, they just emphasized their points... 

Members are still welcome to post a critique if they would like to.

I am done with replying to certain members. If you have anything else to say to me, feel free to PM me and take it up privately. I am more than willing to reply.

Like I said, how about we develop some tact?


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## NewHeart (Dec 10, 2008)

JustDressageIt-

It is true that some individuals do indeed post more harsh critiques than others. It really is no secret around here that people have no problem letting you know what they think. The truth is, you are not always going to like the advice you receive. I am not trying to point fingers, or make anyone feel bad, I am simply pointing out a fact. It is great that you found some advice on here that you feel is useful. However, please remember that you are the one that put yourself out there. In doing so, you left yourself vulnerable to what others had to say. 

Here is my advice to you for in the future: Take the advice that you like and disregard the rest. This is the horse world and everyone has an opinion. You need to be the one to choose which ones you want to take with you, and which ones you don't. Simple as that. If I were you, I would try my best not to take it personally, and take the advice you found useful, and use it to it's fullest advantage. Good luck!


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Wow, what a thread. I just wanted to put in my 2 cents about this whole scenario. JDI, I watch for your threads (though sometimes I must admit I gotta wait too long for all those photos:wink: so I do skip some of those threads) because I learn a lot and enjoy a lot. I really respect what you have done with horses and it says a lot about the type of person you are.

Anyway, enough mushy stuff; we all must remember that not everyone is great at communicating with text only. And it is very easy to become defensive even though the comments aren't meant to hurt. I think it is unfortunate that you ended up being defensive on this thread as evidenced by your several posts "explaining" a few things, due to snow, due to short ride, due to just off the track, etc. Asking for a critique is definitely asking for a blasting and at your apparent skill level (I say apparent because *I* can't determine it, not to be snarky) you will be critiqued more harshly than someone just starting out. However, you got to where you are BY learning and all this input is just more for the store. Like it's been said, take it or leave it, but if I was trying to be as good a rider as you I certainly wouldn't dismiss it without thought.

And for those posters that may have been seen as rude or harsh -- I've learned that a few positive words will take the sting out of many negative words without lessening the message.

I'll get off my soapbox now...


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

northernmama said:


> Wow, what a thread. I just wanted to put in my 2 cents about this whole scenario. JDI, I watch for your threads (though sometimes I must admit I gotta wait too long for all those photos:wink: so I do skip some of those threads) because I learn a lot and enjoy a lot. I really respect what you have done with horses and it says a lot about the type of person you are.
> 
> Anyway, enough mushy stuff; we all must remember that not everyone is great at communicating with text only. And it is very easy to become defensive even though the comments aren't meant to hurt. I think it is unfortunate that you ended up being defensive on this thread as evidenced by your several posts "explaining" a few things, due to snow, due to short ride, due to just off the track, etc. Asking for a critique is definitely asking for a blasting and at your apparent skill level (I say apparent because *I* can't determine it, not to be snarky) you will be critiqued more harshly than someone just starting out. However, you got to where you are BY learning and all this input is just more for the store. Like it's been said, take it or leave it, but if I was trying to be as good a rider as you I certainly wouldn't dismiss it without thought.
> 
> ...


Very well said to you and Newheart. 

I don't really care if anyone looks reads or acknowledges my posts. Mine was one of the least critical as I gave *WHAT* I saw...*WHY* I saw it and *HOW* I would go about changing it. THAT is the basis of what a good critique is. I have been to forums where the worst critique on this thread would be considered as mild as a baby's bottom. 

I wish the OP well in her future endeavours.


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## Joshie (Aug 26, 2008)

JustDressageIt said:


> I use my outside rein for support (we're still working on the whole popping shoulder bit) but my inside rein asks for suppleness.


Just a question....why do you use your rein for support? We ride Western, not English, but were taught that your seat should be separate from your reins and that you should never use reins for support as it decreases your stability.

As far as critiques go I think that there have been comments about some of the things I noticed. It could be the pictures but it looks like you're looking down. I think someone made a comment about your seat in another post. I think you need to sit on the back of your rear more. It's far more comfortable (more padding there) and more stable. 

It sounds like you and CDT had a fun day. I'm glad we have only a dusting of snow here.


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## Jubilee Rose (May 28, 2008)

Joshie said:


> Just a question....why do you use your rein for support?


I think, if I'm not mistaken ... she means its support for Denny to be able to hold his frame, not her. :wink:


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## Joshie (Aug 26, 2008)

Jubilee Rose said:


> I think, if I'm not mistaken ... she means its support for Denny to be able to hold his frame, not her. :wink:


OK, but why would Denny need rein support?


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

English riders keep contact with their horses' mouths, and develop that connection; that's all it is. 
Supporting with the reins does not mean that you are pulling or anything like that, it's just a means of communication. 
When I support with a rein, it's in addition to the seat and leg already in place.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

JustDressageIt said:


> English riders keep contact with their horses' mouths, and develop that connection; that's all it is.
> Supporting with the reins does not mean that you are pulling or anything like that, it's just a means of communication.
> When I support with a rein, it's in addition to the seat and leg already in place.


I just feel like I want to caveat this in some way but not sure of the wording I want to use. I'll try it this way:

Hunt riders and Dressage riders tend to maintain a slight contact with their horses. Lower level hunt riders maintain more then higher level and the dressage horses LOOK like they have alot of contact to the untrained eye, however it's actually a very slight contact. The horse is moving from the rear and into the bit, the reigns are "taught" but not tight.

english pleasure riders (such as QH) actually ride with a very light reign contact and alot of times you can actually see the slack in the reigns. It does not mean there is no contact, because there is, it's just a different kind.

I'm not sure if I helped your statement or not...:?


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