# How do you avoid bruising from girth buckles on a short-billeted English saddle



## freia (Nov 3, 2011)

I ride in an English saddle with short billets. I've always preferred the stability of short billets over long billets. The drawback of course is that I have girth buckles under my knee.

I normally don't feel girth buckles, because they sit right behind my knee. However, now that I'm trotting 15 miles in a stretch, I've lengthened my leathers for a straighter leg that allows me to semi-stand more in my stirrups much of the time to take the pressure off the horse's back. That puts my knee right over the buckles, and after a couple hours of trotting, boy do I notice that buckle!

Please share any tricks you know to avoid the pain.
Do I need to seriously consider retrofitting with long billets?
Can I put a thicker, heavier billet-guard over the buckles with any good results? (I currently have the little flaps that go over individual billets/buckles)
Are there girths with buckles that are flat or specially curved so that they lay flatter, resulting in less bulk under the flap?
Any other ideas?


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

Wait, so your knee is at the girth? To me that would seem like your stirrups are way too long... maybe I'm not picturing it correctly, but it seems like you'd either have your leg with no bend in it at all so it falls directly beneath you, or the seat's too large so your butt is far behind the leathers/girth. 

To answer the question, though, maybe a fleece girth cover would help? The bulk under your knee would still be there, but perhaps having the fleece there would absorb some of the shock and distribute the pressure more evenly.


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## freia (Nov 3, 2011)

DuckDodgers said:


> Wait, so your knee is at the girth? To me that would seem like your stirrups are way too long... maybe I'm not picturing it correctly, but it seems like you'd either have your leg with no bend in it at all so it falls directly beneath you, or the seat's too large so your butt is far behind the leathers/girth.


My knee "proper" is not at the girth buckles. The back of my knee - that very soft sensitive part on the backside of the knee - ends up just barely hitting the girth buckle that's the furthest to the front. I do have a bend in my knee, but when I stand in the stirrups for a trot that goes on and on and on and... , the the back of the bend of my knee just "nicks" that buckle.


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

freia said:


> My knee "proper" is not at the girth buckles. The back of my knee - that very soft sensitive part on the backside of the knee - ends up just barely hitting the girth buckle that's the furthest to the front. I do have a bend in my knee, but when I stand in the stirrups for a trot that goes on and on and on and... , the the back of the bend of my knee just "nicks" that buckle.


Oh ok, that gives a better picture!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## freia (Nov 3, 2011)

DuckDodgers said:


> Oh ok, that gives a better picture!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'd take a picture, but I found it pretty impossible to do singlehandedly, even with a timer/tripod.

I don't notice it the first 10 miles. At mile 11 it was annoying. By mile 12 I was fighting to ignore it. At mile 15 I'm wanting to ride bareback. If I get a shorter or longer girth, I'll just be moving the problem up to my thigh or down to my calf.


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

I would suggest trying a thicker billet guard. My mare goes in a saddle with short billets and I have never had an issue with the buckles bruising.. but I have a thick, single-piece billet guard over the buckles on both sides.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

the few times ive ridden in a an English saddle , like hunt seat, the buckles have made me miserable. do they really make the saddle so much more stable?


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## Shropshirerosie (Jan 24, 2012)

I'm struggling to understand how this is happening as I've always ridden English, and never had such a problem - so my suggestion may be way off.

Could you use a much shorter girth so that the buckles are further down?

Second question - are you wearing long boots, or half-chaps? Or could you?


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

This may be a stupid question (as I am a western rider) but if the buckles are bruising you, couldn't they also be creating pressure points on the horse? Or does it not work that way?

I have noticed that sometimes with certain saddles on certain horses, western rigging can cause pressure points. Like you get a perfect sweat pattern except for where the large rigging ring on the western saddle is. 

So I was just curious if the same applies to english saddles???


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

the buckles seem to always be up under the riders thigh, or like the OP said, at about the back of the knee. honestly, I really dislike hunt seat saddles. so uncomfortable.


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## freia (Nov 3, 2011)

Shropshire, I could try a slightly shorter girth. Then the buckles would be at the upper part of my calf, where my half-chap protects. That's worth a try. They're buckled at the 3rd hole from the bottom right now, so there's not much to go on.

I'll definitely try the thicker, single-piece billet-guard. That's easy. Just borrow one from one of my other saddles.

Trailhorserider, there's no pressure points that I can find on the horse. I checked. I've been riding English for 40 years, and never had this problem before, so I've never thought about it before. I did check yesterday to see if the horse had the same bruise I'm sporting behind my knee, and nothing. The billets and buckles lay quite flat against the sweat-flap on the horse-side of things. The side that faces me is where all the bulk is: The buckle roller, the pin, that's there the billet feeds out and kind of pokes out, etc.


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

Just had another thought on this today.. are you sure it's the buckles causing the issue and not the knee blocks?

The saddle I ride my mare in is english-type but with very small and forward knee blocks. Never had any issues with bruising and I have ridden literally thousands of miles in it. 

So wasn't I surprised when we ordered saddles for the boys which look pretty similar, yet I was suddenly having issues with my knees. To start with I thought the girth was the issue, so switched from short to long billets.. and wasn't I surprised when I was still having issues. That is when I realized it was the knee blocks I was whacking my knees on, not the buckles! The blocks in the new saddles were slightly bigger and slightly farther back than my mare's saddle. Moved the blocks forward a bit and voila, problem solved.


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## freia (Nov 3, 2011)

Phantom, I'm getting walloped behind my knee, not at the front of my knee. It occurred to me today that only my right knee was affected. Heading out to see what holes the left billets were on relative to the right ones. I girth up very evenly, so they can't be more than 1 or 2 holes offset. Will be interesting to see if just a single hole can make that big a difference. If so, I just need a girth 2" shorter. Ahhhh, the plot thickens...

I'm thinking a slightly shorter girth plus a heftier billet guard just might do the trick.

I'm also,interested in hearing from riders who ride endurance in dressage saddles with long billets and short girths. Do you experience any stability or slipping issues? If a shorter girth plus billet guard doesn't work, I'd entertain getting long billets retrofitted. The reason I don't have long billets is because I also use this saddle for jumping and hacking about, so I like knowing everything is good and solid, but retrofitting it is definitely an option.


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## freia (Nov 3, 2011)

Oh I see what you mean! If the knee blocks are too far back, it will force my knees back into buckle-land. Oh, I will definitely look into that next ride. Thanks!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

freia said:


> I'm also,interested in hearing from riders who ride endurance in dressage saddles with long billets and short girths. Do you experience any stability or slipping issues? If a shorter girth plus billet guard doesn't work, I'd entertain getting long billets retrofitted. The reason I don't have long billets is because I also use this saddle for jumping and hacking about, so I like knowing everything is good and solid, but retrofitting it is definitely an option.


I rode endurance in a Bates Caprilli AP with short billets. It was a very comfortable saddle and lightweight. I didn't get bruised but I dislike any kind of bump under the legs so when I got a new girth, I got one with very flat buckles to reduce the bulk. Fat billet guards stop the buckles poking you but also add bulk under your leg, so you don't sit as close to your horse, so if you get a girth with cleverly designed buckles, you won't need such a thick guard.

You could get a longer girth and move the (hopefully reduced) bump under the nice muscle pads on your inner thigh. By the way, I read about this old trick to actually pull your inner thigh muscles outwards/backwards with your hand after mounting to sit closer to your horse, and also perhaps get more comfortable. This can also help.

These days I have an Ascot Romana AP with long billets. Now the bump is under my lower leg! No difference in stability as far as I could tell. It's a bit trickier tightening the girth while mounted, but you get used to it. I have no real opinion on which types of billets are better...pros and cons. If anyone here is uncomfortable in their English saddle, I can totally recommend the Ascot Romana - wonderful for comfortable and stable all-terrain riding, very deep seat and secure leg, freedom of shoulder for the horse and a wide contact area to spread weight over the back. I also really recommend that a good saddle fitter comes out to you to fit you with the correct size and shape saddle for you and your horse, and adjusts it to fit your horse perfectly - not actually that expensive, and very worthwhile.


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## freia (Nov 3, 2011)

SueC said:


> when I got a new girth, I got one with very flat buckles to reduce the bulk. Fat billet guards stop the buckles poking you but also add bulk under your leg, so you don't sit as close to your horse, so if you get a girth with cleverly designed buckles, you won't need such a thick guard.


Do you know what brand this girth was?


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

No, unfortunately I threw out all the packaging etc and it was a while back, so even if I had the info they may have changed the buckles on a particular design since! What I would suggest is going to a store where people know a lot about English riding, and asking them about nice flat buckles. You can compare the different buckles in the shop - lay them on a flat surface and press your flat hand on top to see what makes the biggest bump. Not all shops have girths with well-designed buckles. Some online research may help, that way you can see which manufacturers (if any) claim to make flat, non-bulky buckles, and then go see them yourself in stores that stock them. Isn't it a pain that it often takes so much legwork to find something suitable? Don't get me started on my journey with hoof boots! ;-)


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