# Zuuuggg...Trespassing Issues



## COWCHICK77

I would be miffed as well!

I think if it happens again, since you are not the people person, have your fiance have a friendly chat with her about private property.


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## CLaPorte432

Absolutely. I wont allow anyone on our property without permission. They have no business snooping around on what isnt theirs.

She seemed to know where she was going so it makes me wonder how mant times this lady has ridden on your property?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RoosHuman

CLaPorte432 said:


> Absolutely. I wont allow anyone on our property without permission. They have no business snooping around on what isnt theirs.
> 
> She seemed to know where she was going so it makes me wonder how mant times this lady has ridden on your property?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree!! She seemed to know right where the entrance to the trails was behind the house!! My guess is she entered the woods on a side road that is closer to her place. I probably caught her as she was heading back. (On my nice new trails... uggghh!!!)

I'm honestly lucky that I even saw her. It was just a coincidence that we happened to be home on a Friday during the day, normally everyone is at school/work.


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## Joe4d

I woulda waved and said hello, try being a little neighborly. Maybe she has land you can ride on and "poof" you both now have double the space to ride. I wouldnt aim a no trespassing sign at my neighbors. Especially when it isnt even your land. And the actual owners dont seem to care. Maybe She knows the actual land owners.


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## RoosHuman

The land owners are very much in agreement that she had no place riding so close to our horses/their house. If she had been a friendly neighbor and asked, then they might feel differently. Happening upon her snooping at 12:30 on a Friday made me very uncomfortable.


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## Palomine

The liability of her and her horse being on this property would stop me, plus, I am not that fond of people to begin with, and would not appreciate her being on the property at all.

If they are willing to, the landowners that is, have them send her a letter, and also contact the sheriff to go and tell her that she is trespassing and not to come back on the property.

If she does, as long as those things have been done, she can be arrested.


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## RoosHuman

That is a very good point about liability!! Thank you for posting. I think that our first plan is to post new signs, and then see what happens. If it happens again, then my fiancé or his parents can take the needed next step. What irks me, is that she had to ride a long ways through the woods to get to our horses. Sheesh, call me polite, but I have "friendly neighborly permission" to ride on our neighbors adjoining property. If I didn't have their permission, I wouldn't be on their land!!


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## Delfina

Put up a fence.

I live next door to a boarding facility that openly advertises their clients can ride for miles behind their facility (it's all privately owned property, none of which is the boarding facilities). I didn't say anything, just put up a nice wire fence surrounding my property, so the astonished folks moved over to ride on my neighbor's property, who promptly fenced off his land. 

The rather irritated boarding facility has had to amend their website as to providing acres of open riding. 

Really stupid thing is both the neighbor and I would have been ok with people riding on it as long as they signed a waiver and ASKED!


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## Joe4d

while a boarding facility is over the line, I think you guys are being a bit extreme about a neighbor riding through the woods. At least in VA a ride at own risk , this is an equine facility sign releases you from liability. We have pretty good equine liability laws here.
Yes as land owners you have every right to exclude or allow any one you want. But I think you guys are being a bit extreme. All my neighbors have 10 to 15 acre lots. One rides a dirt bike, one a 4 wheeler, a few have horses. We all left gaps in fences and suddenly each of us have about 100 acres to wonder around on. I dont think any one ever asked anyone for permission, As a mariner that was frequently gone I kinda liked having someone wander by the house to check on things, It's part of being neighborly. Yeh some neighbors are funny, some are nosey. Smile and wave take her some donuts. Is she really hurting anything ?


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## COWCHICK77

I don't think it is extreme at all.

Joe, that is cool that you and your neighbors had an agreement so you guys could have plenty of space to do as you please. Sounds like it works great for you guys  However in Roos case she has made it clear that she is not a people person. Which I can identify with....when I am at home I want to be left alone. Also where I came from trespassing is a good way to get bullets whizzing past your ears. People take "Private Property, No Trespassing" very serious. What other reason would someone live two hours from town out in the middle of nowhere, if they didn't want to be left alone...LOL It is proper etiquette to ask permission to cross someones property. If the neighbor would of least asked it would of showed an effort on her part to do the right thing...but she didn't. For me, that says something about her character.

Roo said she has no desire to make a riding buddy out of the neighbor. If I didn't want to become buddies with my neighbor I probably wouldn't invite her to ride on my property. No one wants to sit in their house waiting for the neighbor to leave your place so you can ride in peace by yourself..LOL.


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## Saddlebag

A larger problem can arise, that of continual use of a piece of land. I've know of two instances whereby this turned into an expensive legal issue. Please research Land Easement whereby one can then legally use the road, trail etc and you can't block them from doing so. Perhaps it doesn't apply here but the knowledge is good to have. In the mean time, post no trespassing signs. Those signs are all over here to stop hunters from entering the land. There you go - take up target shooting. Add that to your No Trespassing Signs.


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## TimberRidgeRanch

I can understand the liability part to a point. Its the its only one person that abuts you that you have such a huge issue with. with it just being 1 person and a trail why not have her sign a riding release. And explain to her in kind words ( Not threatening ) That if she is to use the trail she should also help with the maintenance of said trail. 
There is nothing worst then having two neighbors side by side angry at each other. It just creates a awful atmosphere to live in. And there may be some day your going to need someone who knows horses like you to help you in an emergency. She may be the only one around in such a case. But hurt her feelings or **** her off you may be on your own if that ever happens.
Be kind places to ride are far and few between. But also protect yourself have her sign the release. Also post the liability act signs


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## Joe4d

says something about alot of peoples character that this is even an issue. I guess its a southern thing. We dont have any kinda agreement. It wouldnt have even occurred to me to ask. We put up no tresspassing signs to keep the people from up North out, not our neighbors.


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## maura

Sorry, riding across someone else's land is one of those cases where apologizing later is no good, you MUST ask permission first. Assuming that because you've met me ONCE, it's okay to ignore no trespassing signs and ride my land is not cool at all. 

The way to handle this is strike up a relationship with the landowner FIRST, ask permission nicely, offer to sign a waiver and offer to help clear trails, do some other small service in return for the privledge or offer your porperty to ride on in exchange. 

What really hacks me off about situations like this is that someone like your thoughtless neighbor can undo YEARS of my careful cultivation of neighboring land owners and piecing together of parcels to ride on with their carelessness.


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## COWCHICK77

Joe4d said:


> says something about alot of peoples character that this is even an issue. I guess its a southern thing. We dont have any kinda agreement. It wouldnt have even occurred to me to ask. We put up no tresspassing signs to keep the people from up North out, not our neighbors.


For me it says something, it would be no different than someone I have only met once walking into my house when I am not there.

LOL....a southern thing....you wouldn't have to have to worry about us "Yanks" (I guess that's what your referring to as the people up North)trespassing anyhow, because we would ask first.


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## themacpack

joe - I find it laughable that you are making a leap from someone wanting respect of their property to some sort of indicator of that person's character.


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## COWCHICK77

^^actually I originally made the comment about it being an indication of character. LOL
The point I was trying to make is above, if someone comes on your property uninvited when you are not there is no different than someone walking into your house uninvited. That person has no sense of personal space and doesn't respect your bubble....

I should of worded by original statement better. LOL


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## themacpack

COWCHICK77 said:


> ^^actually I originally made the comment about it being an indication of character. LOL
> The point I was trying to make is above, if someone comes on your property uninvited when you are not there is no different than someone walking into your house uninvited. That person has no sense of personal space and doesn't respect your bubble....
> 
> I should of worded by original statement better. LOL


No, my post was in direct response to Joe saying:


> says something about alot of peoples character that this is even an issue. I guess its a southern thing. We dont have any kinda agreement. It wouldnt have even occurred to me to ask. We put up no tresspassing signs to keep the people from up North out, not our neighbors.


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## COWCHICK77

I misread...oops


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## Tianimalz

I kinda agree with Joe... down here in NC is pretty popular to share your land with your neighbors. Most of the farmers here are quite passive about letting us ride through their fields as long as we don't mess anything up and pick up after ourselves (which the entire horse community does from what I have seen). Several of my horse neighbors graciously let Indie and I wander through their wooded trails that they too painstakingly cut... but I've met up with them before and they say they love meeting other horse people out on the trails, it keeps them company and makes them feel appreciated for the lovely riding paths. 

I suppose if I were you, I'd try to make friends with her.... but then it just strikes me as odd (from my background and standpoint) that someone with large trails would be so hesitant to share, does your neighbor have any of her own trails? I'd probably feel bad for her and be even more likely to share if she didn't have her own areas to enjoy the great outdoors from the back of a horse. 

IMO though.


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## themacpack

This is not about being willing to share, or what that says about a person's character, this is about ASKING for and HAVING permission rather than assuming. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with someone wanting their private property (and, yes, I realize the OP does not own the property in question) to remain private or to be used only by those people that they choose to allow usage to. They idea that land owners are, in essence, obligated to allow any and every person who might wish to use their land to do so is just ridiculous. I have nothing against sharing property, I have no issue with using the land of others (we actually have worked very hard to build a network of properties we have been given permission to use - and are working on more at this time) - the issue comes with the difference between asking and assuming.


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## Tianimalz

themacpack said:


> This is not about being willing to share, or what that says about a person's character, this is about ASKING for and HAVING permission rather than assuming. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with someone wanting their private property (and, yes, I realize the OP does not own the property in question) to remain private or to be used only by those people that they choose to allow usage to. They idea that land owners are, in essence, obligated to allow any and every person who might wish to use their land to do so is just ridiculous. I have nothing against sharing property, I have no issue with using the land of others (we actually have worked very hard to build a network of properties we have been given permission to use - and are working on more at this time) - the issue comes with the difference between asking and assuming.


Yeah I understand. I never said anyone was obligated to share their property, I just said it was a little odd to hear considering my experiences. I'd still suggest actually talking to this lady, not sending the hubby out to do it and making the guy a middle man :lol: She seems like a very friendly sort of person who is a little lonely, maybe she came off the wrong way because she was eager to make a horsey friend, I've done that before and almost scared a few people off. 
Just saying, she might not be so bad.


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## maura

I think the idea that this a "southern" vs. "northern" thing is ridiculous. 

I also suspect some, if not most, of the people, posting that this is okay *are not landowners themselves*

Ask permission first. Period. What on earth could be wrong with that? 
Find out what trails to avoid, or where the landowner has seeded, what livestock they do not want you to disturb, if a gate has been left open so livestock can get to water or if you should close every gate you find. 

I wouldn't deny permission to anyone who asked politely first without very good cause. And I wouldn't grant permission to anyone I caught on my land without asking first ever again.


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## RoosHuman

Joe4d said:


> says something about alot of peoples character that this is even an issue. I guess its a southern thing. We dont have any kinda agreement. It wouldnt have even occurred to me to ask. We put up no tresspassing signs to keep the people from up North out, not our neighbors.


Dear Joe, 
The property in question is located in Tennessee. I believe that Tennessee is further south than Virginia, right? :wink: :lol:

Sincerely,
A Person With Good Character


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## RoosHuman

I do NOT feel the need to defend myself, but I would like to point out that we have great working relationships with several other land owning neighbors. We are allowed to ride in certain hay fields in the off season, and on some lovely lake side trails during the summer months. Our closest neighbor also lets us ride around his plowed fields, which are great for warming up and cooling down. In exchange we give pony rides, garden veggies, and farm fresh eggs. Just because we are nice neighbors!! We are happy to have them here any time.

Also...If you don't have enough land to support your horses, that is not my fault. It is also not my fault if you do not have the respect to ask property owners before riding on their property. There is a driveway that she could have walked up if that was her intention.

And lastly, Sheesh! Has anyone's horse ever caught a viral infection? If so, then you understand the importance of knowing what horses come into close vicinity with yours.


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## Joe4d

RoosHuman said:


> Dear Joe,
> The property in question is located in Tennessee. I believe that Tennessee is further south than Virginia, right? :wink: :lol:
> 
> Sincerely,
> A Person With Good Character


You may wanna check your geography, 
And yep there are regional attitudes. You also seem to easily tell the difference in people from the south and people who have moved here recently. I wouldnt want strangers traipsing around but I dont consider my neighbors strangers. I see people calling for signs, shootings, and all kinds of nasty behavior to your neighbor. Guess that word means something different to me. Glad I dont live near you guys.


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## maura

Joe, 

I just looked at a map and I'm pretty sure all of Tennessee is south of all of Virginia???

I also have to question if you're the person who put up pages of posts complaining about hunters and hunting season in your area this fall? Are those people your neighbors too? Or do the bus the hunters in from other areas? 

I have very good relationships with my neighbors and have permission to ride on a lot of neighboring land. I believe that's based on my treating them with respect and how I would want to be treated; NOT assuming it's okay for me to ride on their land without asking first. 

Back to the OP's initial inquiry, even if the neighbors did have permission to ride the trails, which they didn't, riding that close up to the house and basically snooping around is RUDE by most people's lights.


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## Saddlebag

I defend Roo's position. There is something called Courtesy ie. asking permission first to enter the property. Old saying to Assume makes an *** of U and Me. A hunter entered my land without permission last fall. He was charged with trespass and paid a fine. He was heading back to the US and was stopped at the border. Now, had he come to the door and asked, it would have been a different matter. But he didn't so he paid the piper. If he commits trespass again in Ontario he won't get off lightly the second time.


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## Jake and Dai

I personally think its a matter of respect and good manners to ask permission to ride on someone else's land, regardless of what part of the country you (or they) hail from. Private property is private property.

Not to mention the liability issues and health issues from close contact between horses.

Roos, I would just ask (or have your fiance or fiance's family) her to please respect your privacy and not ride on your land. 

And I too am not so much a people person and leave conversations like that to my DH who is less of a people person than I am but is much more outspoken about such things.


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## Allison Finch




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## Prinella

Roo I'd send the fiancé over to have a chat with her. Consider how you'd feel about her riding with permission first. It may be enough to say that it was not acceptable to ride there without permission but if she helps out with x y z she can continue to ride there (good way of getting things done)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COWCHICK77

Joe4d said:


> You may wanna check your geography,
> And yep there are regional attitudes. You also seem to easily tell the difference in people from the south and people who have moved here recently. I wouldnt want strangers traipsing around but I dont consider my neighbors strangers. I see people calling for signs, shootings, and all kinds of nasty behavior to your neighbor. Guess that word means something different to me. Glad I dont live near you guys.



Right now I am in Texas and my neighbors are very respectable about private property. My nearest neighbor has pasture on both sides of mine. He _always_ comes up the front drive to ask if he can move his cows through my pasture to get the other side. He used to lease our place before we moved in...he could very easily assume he could go back and forth through our place. I always tell him that he can of moves his cows through of course. 
By the way he was born and raised in Virginia....

Oh, and yes I do feel like shooting someone if they came through without asking and left gates open.

We had put a sort on a large amount of steers, and had them staged in a couple different pastures close to the corrals.
Someone came through the ranch during the night, didn't close the gates properly and the cattle had mixed. We had about 10 cattle trucks waiting on us to resort and load.....not happy, all could be avoided by some respect for private roads and property.


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## Kaibear

It's polite to ask permission first. I leased a horse a couple of yrs ago where the only trails available were on private property. The owner of the barn (where I leased) had permission from all the land owners to ride on their land and we always cleaned up any poop the horses left behind. It's just good horsey etiquette


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## Daisy25

I agree that it IS trespassing (not to mention downright rude!) to ride on anyone else's property without their express permission.

That said - it does not surprise me to hear that this neighbor of yours has "helped herself" to your land and your trails. I'll bet it didn't even OCCUR to her to check with you first - common sense and courtesy seems to be going the way of the dinosaur these days!

I would also be willing to bet, that if confronted, your neighbor will consider YOU to be the rude and disrespectful one...


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## wetrain17

I'm a believer in community. There is an agreement in my area that I have no problem letting someone ride on my property and they have no problem letting me ride through their's. I would be a little upset that she did not ask for permission, in your case, but I dont know if I would make a big fuss about it. What happens when you have an emergency and may need some neighborly help?


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## RoosHuman

wetrain17 said:


> I'm a believer in community. There is an agreement in my area that I have no problem letting someone ride on my property and they have no problem letting me ride through their's. I would be a little upset that she did not ask for permission, in your case, but I dont know if I would make a big fuss about it. What happens when you have an emergency and may need some neighborly help?


That's what friendly neighbors are for, and we would do the same for them.


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## mls

Joe4d said:


> You may wanna check your geography,


I am looking at a map. TN is further south than VA.


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## Speed Racer

Yes, TN may abut VA in some places, but it's definitely a more southern state. :wink:

I live in south central VA. It's not a 'southern thing' to expect to just be able to waltz across property that belongs to someone else without asking permission. Rudeness and self entitlement are hardly what I'd call 'southern hospitality'. :?

Around here, if you don't ask permission first don't be surprised if you're met by a skeeved off property owner packing a firearm. They don't have the time or patience for ignorant people who think they can traipse all over property that doesn't belong to them.

It costs NOTHING to be polite and ask. It also shows the property owner that you respect their privacy and land, and will adhere to their wishes. I've found that asking usually garners permission. If it doesn't, then I just don't ride there. Easy peasy!


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## HanginH

Didn't read through this whole thing but i can tell you that I am glad that I grew up riding 10-15 years ago thats for sure! I used to ride all over on neighbors land/fields literally had thousands of acres that we could ride on with out anyone getting offended or upset that we are out there. We always made sure that we closed gates and were not a menace but hardly ever asked for permission either. If we saw the landower out and about we would go over say hi and not once in all those years was i ever yelled at or told to get off. Lots of times we would wander over and check guys cow herds out and if there were any lame/sick ones give him a call and let him know.
All of theses were pasture quarters and may be different if we were trying to ride through some ones yard but all the same it was a great experience that saldy lots won't get the option to do. I own land and would have no problem with someone coming on to my place as long as they keep the gates as they find them and respect my property.

In the past couple of years in particular there seems to be this huge thing about property rights and what is mine is mine and the rest of you better stay off, which I think is pretty sad that it has become that way.


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## Speed Racer

I've been riding for* 30 plus* years, and in all that time I've always ASKED if I could ride on someone elses property before I did it. It's called common courtesy. 

You can bemoan the loss of hospitality all you want, but if you wandered all over someone's property without so much as a 'by your leave', _you're_ part of the problem.

The reason why people have gotten woofy about their property is that so many people are _disrespectful_ of the land, crops, livestock, and owners. All it takes is one crappy, self entitled jerk to ruin it for everyone else.

Ask first. It's the right thing to do, regardless of how entitled you think you _should_ be to ride property that doesn't belong to you.


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## HanginH

Easy speed racer!

I do ask for permission lots more than I ever used to and on the ones that I don't I know I have the invitation to ride across if we want and the owners will be happy to see us. 
I don't go through peoples crops, I don't chase peoples cows and if I don't think I should be riding across that piece of property then I don't! Where did you see in my post that I said "oh well I know I shouldn't be on here but I am going to go ahead anyway because thats my right!" 

I am going to post a disclaimer that this is strictly my opinion on property rights and how I "THINK" they have changed in the past 7-10 years. 

Have a good one!


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## maura

HangingH, 

I think you've misidentified the issue or the villian here. 

I have wonderful neighbors, and I have a fair amount of land to ride on, so I have had exactly the experience you're nostaligic about right now. I also had the magnificient experience of having over 5,000 acres to ride on, all maintained for horse traffic. However, I believe I've had those wonderful experiences BECAUSE of my determination to always be sure of my permission beforehand. 

I spent most of my years as a professional horseperson in hunt country, and worked with the Masters as they worked tirelessly to keep land open for horses, an uphill battle if ever there was one. The problem, over and over again, that resulted in land being closed to horse owners, responsible and irresponsible alike, was riders ASSUMING that the land was open to ride on, ASSUMING that they knew what the landowner would tolerate or ASSUMING that since the saw other horses on the property, the land was open to them. 

No one closes their land to horses for no reason. It's the newly planted field with hoofprints straight across, the seeded shoulder that someone trotted right up the middle of like it was a ring, it's rocking the cotter pins out of the equipment and the teeth out of your mouth when you drive farm equipment across a field someone galloped over when it was wet, the bird cover spoiled or the aborted calves and lambs.

The only way to know that you're not abusing the landowner is to ask first. 

I'm also really surprised by the attitude that somehow it's an imposition to ask first. I promise you you'll spend more time getting dressed, getting tacked up and getting to the trail than you would spend phoning the property owner. 

But somehow it's a decline in the general hospitality of the country that responsible horsepeople think it's a good idea to ask first?


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## COWCHICK77

I have always had great relationships with land owners neighboring where ever I have lived....and that came from mutual respect of each others land. 

Asking or expecting someone to ask before using does not equal un-neighborly.


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## franknbeans

Well-Seems I am coming a bit late to this party......but.....I would NEVER feel so entitled as to assume I could ride anywhere I did not own or pay board to without permission. Period. I think part of the issue is that so much of our current society feels are self centered entitled brats. That has nothing to do with horses, but crosses over into everything they do. Noone owes you anything. RIding on someone else's property is a PRIVILEGE, not a right you are entitled to. THerefore, yes, you should ask permission.

As far as waivers-what I am hearing is that even if a person has signed a waiver, if they get hurt on someones property, their INSURANCE company can come after the landowner, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. 

There are places that are "all access" areas. One example would be my lakefront property. I cannot stop anyone from accessing the lake at any point. So, they theoretically could go all the way around the entire lakeshore and no private property owner could stop them. THey could fish, hunt, anything they want-legally. However-I have lived here 50+ yrs. Never, ever has anyone done that. I have had people ASK me, and they are typically allowed. NOONE takes it for granted-and-JOE-just FYi-thisis in NY, which, as I looked at the map, is north of VA. (actually I knew that, since I also live there.)

It comes down to good manners, IMO. Something that has pretty much become extinct in this entitled, self centered society.:evil:


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## Crossover

RoosHuman said:


> Long story short...
> We have a neighbor who also owns several horses. I have met her once, when her horses got out and headed in our direction. I helped her catch them and take them home, and that was that. I few weeks later, she showed up and gave my fiancé a card with her name, phone #, email, and Facebook info. I was honestly glad to have missed her visit. No offense, but I like to keep to myself, and she didn't strike me as the type of person that I wanted to go out and ride with. (Just a general judge of character) Needless to say, I never added her on FB... :wink:
> 
> Anyways, this was back in the fall.
> 
> Just today... as I'm walking to the barn... *I see her riding on our property!!!!* I went into the barn, and called my fiancé. (He is more of the people person, I am the horse person.) It is, after all, his parents property. In the meantime, I stood and watched her walk her horse along our fence lines, and stop at the top of the hill behind his parent's house. It was pretty obvious that she was looking over the property. (Creepy) Then, to top it off, she disappeared into the forest behind the house, and left on the trails that I spent hours painstakingly clearing off!! And around that time my fiancé showed up, though a little late.
> 
> So anyway... The family is in agreement that she should NOT be riding this close to our horses and home, especially without our permission. The woods where are trails are have at least one no trespassing sign, which is pretty large. One of the two trail heads also has a chain across the entrance, and the other is open but not cleared off yet.
> 
> Would you guys be so miffed to have someone riding on your property? I am very agitated about it... I personally don't want to have strange horses on our property if I can help it, especially so close to our house!! Also a lady that I do not know, and didn't get that great of a first impression of!!
> 
> We discussed it tonight, and are going to get another chain for the other trailhead. We are also going to get more No Tresspassing Signs. (I will probably go overboard with those...). If there anything else you would do?
> What if she doesn't take the hint, and comes back??


I agree that you have the right to grant or not the permission to ride on your property. 

What I didn't care for was how you wrote this person off from one encounter. I know you said you were not a people person and I can tell. I myself do not get along the best with people and being shy and at the same time a bit ADD had many people write me off quickly. Those who actually took time to get to know me would find that I'm a bit crazy, talk way to much, forget things at the drop of a hat, but I am also the fieriest defender of my friends, the first to drop everything and help, loyal to a fault, and if I have two cans of food left will give you one and join you in a last meal. 

You obviously made an impression on her as she went out of her way to give you all her contact info. I'm sure she realized that when you completely ignored her she wasn't wanted. 

Maybe instead of sneaking around your property... she was longingly looking down at the farm where a fellow horse person snubbed her and she had to ride alone. Just an idea.

Again... let me reiterate that you have full rights to who comes onto your property... but maybe you ought to give someone a chance before hauling out the big guns.

Just my two cents. :-|


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## MangoRoX87

This would be the same if my neighbors randomly hopped in my pool. They are very nice and generous, but if I got home from school and people were doing cannon balls off the slide, I'd have a right to be a little upset right? Sure, they don't have a pool, but something they DO have is common courtesy.


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## RoosHuman

AND The Saga Continues...

I'm not sure if anyone will still read this thread, as it is a little older now, but I had a visit yesterday from said "Horselady." I was out in the yard lunging one of ours when she drove up. My fiancé's father had added 3 No Trespassing signs to the wooded area where the trails are. She had noticed the signs and, in a _very_ roundabout way apologized if she had made the property owner's angry. 

I felt very uncomfortable and pressured. When I say she apologized, I mean it very loosely. Believe it or not, I am a very kind person, and I am often duped because of it. Something about the situation just irks me. She made an excuse as to why she had been riding there, that she didn't know who owned the wooded area, and that she thought it would be "okay to ride through it to get to our place." How would she know that the trails lead to our place if she hadn't been riding there before? I just responded with the truth, that it is private property and that the owners want to know who is on it, and that they were offended that someone was on it without asking first.

Another thing that made me *very* uncomfortable was that she asked if we had seen her on a hunting camera that is set up on an adjacent property. She said that she had ridden up on it and figured that we had seen her riding over there. How did she know that his family owned that land, if she didn't know that they owned the land behind their house? It's fishy to me. 

I don't hunt, although the hunting rights to that particular parcel of land are leased to another individual. I mentioned that to her, and get this, she responds with "You know I'm the one that keeps those trails clean over there." ....??? She also said that she is careful to stay to the edge of the hay field, and that she enjoys galloping up the hill to condition her horse!! 

Something is not clicking with me. I don't want to speak badly of her personally. I don't know her well enough to know if she is trustworthy or not. But, to me, it seems like she is being way too sneaky. Why is she using someone's land so much without asking? 

Anyways, we chitchatted a little about our horses, and I told her that it was up to the landowners. 

Speaking of which, the landowners are very perturbed that she was "clearing off" their land without their knowledge. I asked them if they would have been comfortable with her riding there had she asked properly from the beginning, and they said that they would have preferred that she not.

I wouldn't mind having a riding buddy, but something seems very off here. I don't want this to progress into something miserable. I am all for horseback riders having more places to ride, but I know that the way I approach other riders and landowners in general is completely different. We didn't go out to her place and intrude. She came around our horses, and our home, and my fiancé's family. It has left everyone feeling very uncomfortable.


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## Saskia

She does sound a little strange.

Just commenting so you know someone is still reading!


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## maura

I think you are going to have to be very, very clear with this woman. 

It sounds to me like first, she's a believer in asking for forgiveness later rather than permission first and second, that she just lacks normal social boundaries. 

I think you're going to have to say, very clearly, something like - 

"Please don't ride on this property. The owner does view it as trespassing, period. I view it as an invasion of our privacy when you ride close to the house. As far as the neighboring property, trespassing is trespassing, regardless of whether you're clearing trials or keeping to the edge of fields or not. "

After that, I would strive for a cordial but distant relationship with this neighbor. 

I would not want to ride with someone with such a cavalier attitude about private property; I wouldn't want others to associate me with her.


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## NdAppy

Basically what Maura said. I have a feeling you are going to have to be blunt (not rude!) with her. I get the feeling she will take any wavering as permission to continue on. Have someone with you when you do talk to her.


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## mildot

Why haven't you had her arrested for criminal trespass?

I am amazed at what people tolerate.

I wouldn't be nice, I wouldn't cordial, and I would not be pleasant. I'd be blunt and aggressive as hard as necessary to get her to respect private property either voluntarily or by force of law.


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## mildot

NdAppy said:


> I have a feeling you are going to have to be blunt (not rude!) with her.


People with her lack of respect deserve no consideration. Her rudeness is beyond belief in thinking she can help herself to the property of others. It should be responded to in a like manner.


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## RoosHuman

Thank you guys very much for still reading this thread! I appreciate it. I really feel so uncomfortable. I am glad that you guys do not think that I am overreacting. I think that I am just going to go along on my merry way and let my fiancé's family handle it. They are all very kind people, but they stick up for what is right and they can explain things to her. I hope she does not put me in the middle just because I am the "horse person" of the family. I am always the one at the barn, and most likely the person she will seek out if more signs go up across the road. We don't actively drive up to her place, I wish she would leave our place alone. Fiance, or fiancé's mom or pop will be on speed dial, LOL!


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## RoosHuman

mildot said:


> Why haven't you had her arrested for criminal trespass?


Mildot, the property belongs to my fiancé's parents. Although we live on it, and I am the main caretaker of our horses, I don't have the say as to who is allowed on it. His family agrees that is lady is way out of line, and have since put up more signs where we first knew the lady was riding. I told them last night what she had said about riding on the hay land, and they definitely aren't comfortable with her actions. 

She's just waaaayyy too sneaky!!!


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## RoosHuman

maura said:


> I would not want to ride with someone with such a cavalier attitude about private property; I wouldn't want others to associate me with her.


^^Agreed. Thank you for your response!


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## mildot

RoosHuman said:


> Mildot, the property belongs to my fiancé's parents. Although we live on it, and I am the main caretaker of our horses, I don't have the say as to who is allowed on it.


Regardless of whether or not you are the owner, you are the legal resident/tenant and as such I can guarantee you that you have the legal ability to trespass someone who has no business being there out. 

The owners may be the ones who give permission for others to enter, but that does not preclude you from dealing with those who do not have that permission.

You need to cowgirl up and have this woman arrested the next time you see her trespassing. Or you can keep dealing with this problem for a long time.

Your call.


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## COWCHICK77

She seems pushy in a passive, sneaky sort of way if that makes sense.

I have found those types want to turn the situation around on you if you get blatantly pushy back and want to make you out as the bad guy then act as a victim of your "meanness". I would be leary as well.


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## mildot

People

There is no need for any subtlety or sneakyness.

This is as black and white as it gets. Have her arrested the second she's found trespassing. If she keeps going, restraining order and more arrests. At some point she will either smarten up and stop or commit a felony. Either way you win.

This isn't hard.


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## RoosHuman

COWCHICK77 said:


> She seems pushy in a passive, sneaky sort of way if that makes sense.
> 
> I have found those types want to turn the situation around on you if you get blatantly pushy back and want to make you out as the bad guy then act as a victim of your "meanness". I would be leary as well.


That is EXACTLY the feeling that I get from her. It makes me want to avoid her and let the owners talk to her, because I know that if the situation turned sour they could handle it better than I could.


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## Tazmanian Devil

I agree with many of the others who believe this rider is in the wrong for riding on the land/trails without permission.

While many of us will agree that "asking first" is the right thing to do, I have to say that it works both ways. The OP has spoken with this woman at least once since knowing about the problem and not addressed it directly.

I don't thing putting up more signs is the answer. This indirect communication is just as much a problem as the original "offense." I don't know what the properly layout looks like, I don't know if this woman comes from another area where all the horse people gladly shared each other's trails.

Basically, two wrongs don't make a right. The "neighborly" thing to do is to give her the benefit of the doubt for the first offense and then CLEARLY explain what you want from her. If you don't want her riding on your land, simply say so or have your people person fiancee tell her if you are unable to. This can be done in a very nice way to both keep her off your land and not make and enemy of a neighbor.


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## Amlalriiee

It looks like the person above sort of beat me to it...but I was going to play devil's advocate for some of you who don't give a second thought about threatening/getting the law involved in these cases. Now, I have HIGH respect for people's property and understand that people have every right to be upset. I have twice been the "bad guy" though due to not having anyone to teach me the trails in my area. The first time I was lost in the woods with my horse and could not find my way back out. I allowed the horse to find her way and she did get me home, but took me right through someone's property and they were not happy, BUT they were very understanding and listened to my explanation and it didn't happen again, so it was water under the bridge. The other case was not so simple. I REALLY learned my lesson this time. I called a property owner about a trail, described it, they said yes it's theirs, yes its posted, yes you can ride on it....awesome! Unfortunately, there was a trail that continued off of it, that had the same signs, looked the same, etc, and belonged to someone else. I thought it was the same trail set, same owner, permission already set to go until I had a very scary encounter with two drunk men blocking the trail, yelling at me and demanding all my personal information. They finally backed off after posturing at me and threatening me for a good half hour. They then handed me a business card for the land owner(wait...you just threatened me and trapped me on someone else's land???). Anyway, I tried to do the right thing and call the land owner to apologize, explain the mistake, and promise it wouldn't happen again. He then used my number to report me to authorities, and gave them a picture of me on his property and tried to have me arrested. Thank goodness the authorities did their job and warned me, understood that it was a simple misunderstanding, but told me I was okay as long as I was never seen on his land again. ANYWAY...not saying it was right that I was on his land, because it wasn't. Just saying that mistakes do happen, trails can be very confusing sometimes, especially in heavily wooded areas that aren't well marked. I lost a lot of sleep over my mistake and felt it was taken way too far. I am going to try to obtain a map of property lines because this was just absolutely crazy. I thought I was pretty careful about asking permission, but obviously not careful enough!! Please don't subject other well-intentioned people to this kind of treatment. I would NEVER intentionally go on someone's land that I wasn't wanted on...and I was an inch away from facing trespassing charges.


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