# Is this a good racehorse?



## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Hmm.. he's got some famous names, that's for sure.. but he's a 2003 model, and a gelding... do you have race records? By now he should have proven himself.. what are your plans?


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

hi,

well...i found from his records that he has had 21 starts and several wins and some seconds and thirds. I don't know the exact details,though.

what happened is he was left at a boarding stable and the poor guy had to be legally given to the barn owner because the owner wouldn't pay his board/feed bills. anyways, apparently he wasn't a bad racer at all his owner just fell onto hard times. the barn owner offered him to me for $300.00 and has offered to help me get him into shape for the summer races. 

I have always been very interested in getting into horse racing and this seems like a foot in the door. I wouldn't be expecting a lot and would do it more for experience. 

but like i said....lol...other than seabiscuit i don't know a lot of tb lines. 
so they look pretty good?

i have met him a couple times and he is a real cutie and sweet and I would love to give him a chance....


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

My first questions would be: how long has it been since he's raced? Does he have any injuries? I would strongly suggest getting a vet's opinion. 7 years old is quite old for a racer..


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

oh...is it? oh yes...i would definitely get him vet checked first. i have been told he is completely sound...but...ya know.... i am not sure how long it has been since he has been raced. i will be able to find more out about him tomorrow when i talk to the barn owner....thanks for your help!


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Piaffe said:


> Hey, I am considering buying this racehorse....are his bloodlines any good? I am not super familiar with TBs...I am an Arab and Peruvian person
> 
> 
> 
> Free 5-Cross Thoroughbred Pedigrees from equineline.com - Thoroughbred Pedigree now with Free Interactive Nicking Cat&dam_name=Cuties Daughter&foaling_year=2003&nicking_stats_indicator=Y


You only have 1 good horse up close and that is Storm Cat. Storm Cat was good but had a reputation of throwing "difficult" offspring.

For a 7 year old gelding with little behind him....I would make a nice hunter out of him.


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

im going to be honest here. if youre going to buy a horse to race, make sure you get yourself a good trainer. its not all as easy as it sounds. you also have to get licensed which is going to cost you. i spent a few hundred to get licensed to own, train, and groom. also if you decide you want to train it you do have to take tests and know all of the rules of racing, equip., and show you are able to train a horse a race mile. if you have not worked with TBs on the track before, i suggest getting your grooms license (if youre planning to train this horse) and go work for a good trainer. let them show you the ins and outs of training a racehorse. 

also get up to date on your chemistry... i know this sounds horrible, but racing isnt what it used to be. you need to know about drugs. especially high powered drugs like epogen. a horse who was previously on epogen, if taken off, will typically never race again, and you need to know the signs of what to look for for an epogen crash horse. you also need to know what you can and cant use, and what people are using that youre racing against. its horrible, yes, but the racing world is more chemistry than training now. if youre not willing to do what you need to beat other horses, you wont make money. most horses (there are exceptions- horses who do not do well with pre-racing) arent compatible with horses who are on drugs. its just how it is. 

know what youre getting into. the racing industry is very shady. its not all the glitz and glam people make it out to be. unless you have a horse with real talent, real want-to win, and good drugs, youre not going to make anything. and its very expencive to keep a racehorse. Also 7 is not old for a racehorse, dont let age deter you anyway. i prefer an old racehorse to a young one, those are horses who know the game and know what they need to do to win.


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## sillybunny11486 (Oct 2, 2009)

I would buy him for $300 provided he passes a vet check, and retrain him as a riding horse.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Also, check into your local racing circuit. I don't know how much you care, but as an aged gelding that has a mediocre at best race record, around here the only thing you could enter him in is claiming races. It would probably be a nice profit if he ran in a $4,000 claimer and someone actually wanted him, but be aware it could happen.

I agree with everyone else though - 7 years old is getting up there for a racehorse, especially a racehorse who's been out of work. It can be done, I have a friend who owns racehorses and is racing a 7 year old in the aged claiming races, but he's been thoroughly vet checked and approved to do so.

Racing is expensive and starting off with just an aged claimer in your string isn't the best way to get your foot in the door. Between training costs and entry fees, I doubt you'll see any profit unless he miraculously makes a huge come around as an older gelding which is slim at best.


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## Eastowest (Mar 26, 2009)

Go here and check out his complete race record. 

Equibase Company - Thoroughbred Racing Information

Of his 21 race starts, he has won 1 time, placed 2nd 2 times, third 3 times, and earned $3663 in winnings. The last race he ran in was a $2500 claiming race and he came in 5th of 8 and won 88$. (I am not sure how to read the report-- it looks like he was claimed.)

IMO that is not really a successful racing career. 

Here is only a moderately successful racing career--
Equibase Company - Thoroughbred Racing Information

32 starts with a 9-8-1 record, and earning $76,404. She raced until 7 and was retired sound to become a broodmare. I only would call her racing career moderately successful because she was not a stakes contender, she only ran fast enough to compete in races with moderate purses, and in her last few races she did run in a few claimers down around $4000. she did have a pretty nice win-place-show ratio to races run.

You could try racing with this gelding, but my opinion is that if he hasn't, at his age, run well enough to win more than one 1 of his 21 races, at the lower levels he is racing at, your odds of him winning enough to even pay for his training and feed are very slim. if he is sound and attractive, re-training him for a career as a hunter, jumper, or other type of riding horse to re-sell would be much better odds for at least breaking even or making a small profit.

Just to clarify-- I don't race horses and its not my "thing" so I am speaking from an outside perspective. I do own the mare whos record I posted-- I bought her as a proven broodmare and am deciding what Appaloosa stallion she will fit best with for producing all-around Appaloosa performers, with a possibility of producing an all-around showhorse that can also be competitive in the speed events at Appaloosa breed shows. (Barrels poles, keyhole, etc.) 

When her previous owner decided to sell her, he was not successful in marketing her as a race horse broodmare, and he worked at the track, so that tells you something about how her record was being considered as far as her "success".


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Riding horse. 

Based on EasttoWest's excellent research, the real reason this horse was taken on a mechanic's lein by the barn owner is that he could no longer race and win enough to recover his fees and expenses. 

Flogging a 7 year old around cheap tracks in claimers is a miserable experience for pretty much everybody involved, esp. the horse!, and bound to be a money losing 
proposition. 

Unless you have a close personal friend who 1.) has a trainer's license 2.) likes to run horses off of the fram 3.) is willing to take this prospect on "on the cuff" AND the horse is sound, I wouldn't touch it. 

I also wouldn't touch it if you're more than 2 - 3 hours drive from a cheap track. (You can run horses off the farm from a farther distance, but transport costs will mitigate any winnings.)


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

After all that was said - and it was all great advise - when you pay your $300, do you get his JC papers and are they restricted so that he can't race?

One other thing to consider is that if it was feasible to race him and make money or at least break even, he would most likely never have been given up.

On the other hand, a sound TB of his age for $300 is one heck of a nice deal for a riding horse.


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

hi...you all have very good points!

He was raced last summer several times and apparently placed a few times. He is seven and yes, comes with JC papers which the lady has signed over in hand and they are not on restriction. I already have two trainers (one licensed at the track) that have agreed to help me completely recondition him. He is boarded about eh.....5 miles maybe from that track so that wouldn't be a problem.

And I suppose...if i got him...and i raced him this summer and it was a flop I could always try him for dressage which is what my real chosen discipline is..lol. He is pretty big and once he is in shape I think he will make a really nice horse.

So his bloodlines really aren't all that...or they might be okay?

thanks again for all your wonderful help and input everyone!


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## Eastowest (Mar 26, 2009)

_>>>> And I suppose...if i got him...and i raced him this summer and it was a flop I could always try him for dressage which is what my real chosen discipline is..lol. He is pretty big and once he is in shape I think he will make a really nice horse._

It sounds like you have a good situation for trying out your interest in racing-- being so close, having training friends, etc, so your invenstment in trying out racing is pretty minimal compared to many. However be aware that one of the ways this horse could "flop" is by getting hurt, which could seriously change his after-track value. 

I have another TB mare which I acquired for exactly that reason-- she had been running cheap races for a few years and changed hands a few times always with the hope that she might "make it" for the new owners/trainers-- well bred, gorgeous big mare-- but she ended up fracturing a sesamoid. She had to have immediate vet care and was on stall rest at the track for 45 days, and then another 30 once she got here. She will be sound enough to be a broodmare, MIGHT be sound enough for light riding on the flat, but will probably always have a big ankle and won't be able to have the career she could have if she had raced a few starts less. 

















_>>>> So his bloodlines really aren't all that...or they might be okay?
_
His bloodlines are fine, but he's not running "up to par" with the best in his lines and being realistic, he probably never will. They don't always. Take the mare above-- She had 59 starts, with a record of 2-1-11, earned around $23,000, and almost all of her races were $4000 and less claimers. Not stellar. 

She was sired by a graded stakes winner of over $450,000 in only 16 starts and her grandsire was the Leading Sire in North America in 1980. Her dam was a stakes-placed winner sired by a horse that won over $500,000 in only 15 starts and was exported to India where he is a leading sire. So her bloodlines are good and proven up-close, as well as having the typical famous winners further back. But she just didn't run like her ancestors.

AND, then she got hurt. 
Being a pretty, big, well bred mare, she has the potential to have some use for someone-- but she has absolutely no value in this market as a TB-- she was basically given to me and it was that or face being euthanized because the season was over, she was hurt, and her time at the track was through. 

The gelding you are considering could run another year or 2, maybe-- he might give you the opportunity for some fun and experience. However, he is at the top-end of the age that horses usually keep running, and there is always a risk of him getting hurt, up to and including a career-ending injury. Just something to consider when weighing your options before you decide.


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

ok im going to say again, 7 is not old for a racehorse. many many racehorses are older, its just that the young ones are the ones you see in the spotlight all the time. the average age of all the horses in our barn is about 7, and they have a long time to race ahead of them yet. dont get stuck on age, it really means NOTHING. yes you arent going to be able to race in the high money races like stakes and such, but just because its a claimer doesnt mean they cant make money. there are also condition races of which he could race- those focus around money made in a certain amount of starts, and usually dont have any age restrictions. the unfortunate part with those is those are usually your better horses (theyre in condition races so they dont get claimed) and younger horses learning to race who are potential stakes horses. 

let me ask though, do you have the money to race him for a summer? let me show you something here so youre not shocked when it comes to it. to race my mare this is what i have to pay:

starting fee $10
lasix fee $15
prerace around $25 typically

so this is already $45 youre in the hole before you even race. PLUS the cost of training, stabling (if youre on a farm), feed/hay, vetcare, etc. racehorses are heavily vetted to keep them in top condition to be competitive in racing. 

also your horse will have to qualify to be able to race again. so youre going to have to put time and effort into getting him back and make sure he can qualify to even get to racing. my mare is due to qualify in about 2 weeks, she just had a little over a month off. before shes even qualified to race i have put $300 vetcare into her to get her back into racing condition (ankles and right hock and stifle injected). not to mention the time (i train my own so i dont pay a trainer) to get her back in condition. average trainer around here is $30/day. 

i wouldnt focus on his breeding, focus on his past career. see what kinds of races he was in where he was finishing. dont look at all his bad finishes as "well hes just crap" a lot happens in a race that determines where they finish. post position is a huge one, your jockey (yes they give a bad race sometimes- its hard to determine how a race will unfold at times, and theyre left to make split second decisions), track conditions, etc. it all has to be taken into consideration. 

Maura- racing is not miserable for all horses. this is what those horses were bred to do, and for the most part they highly enjoy the race. there are horses who do not like it yes, those are your sulkers. but for the most part... no... that was really untrue and kind of hurtful to those who race. you make us sound like monsters who dont give a crap about how the horse feels.

iridehorses- your statement of the horse being worth races or else he wouldnt have been sold is sort of true. this is a possibility. BUT here is what happens a lot of times... a cheaper horse will be sold out of a barn that is trying to improve their stock. even if they make money. what happens is when a barn is improving stock they get rid of cheap, older horses, and horses who have problems, and bring in young expensive horses. this improves the quality of the stable to raise standards. there are awards given for trainer, owner, and jockeys who have done well at a meet. doing this gives them a greater chance at getting that. 

at $300, i would say he would be best off as a riding horse. his career hasnt been great, and youre going to put a lot of money into getting him back racing, than youre likely to make out of it. once in a great while a horse does make a comeback, but this is ONCE IN A GREAT WHILE. if you want to get into racing and have a decent horse, youre going to have to spend a few grand on the horse.


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

Eastowest said:


> there is always a risk of him getting hurt, up to and including a career-ending injury. Just something to consider when weighing your options before you decide.


yes. but i want to add the injury is not always career-ending, but life ending. many horses are put down because the injury is just too extensive. i remember one of our trotters that we had was going to win a race. all he took was ONE bad step (no ones fault, it just is something that sometimes happens) and he shattered his pastern. he had to be put down right away. this is realistic. it happens. its something to really think about. i get attached to my horses and hate to see anything like that happen, and it breaks my **** heart when it does. but its a risk you take, in any discipline really, that something could happen. i almost had to quit racing a few times it was so bad. i couldnt deal with it anymore. the last horse we had die on us we had for 2 days, TWO DAYS!!! he had went out and jogged and came in, later he was being shod. as soon as they finished he started to go down. we got him out of crossties as fast as possible. he stumbled all over and groaned. almost killed my younger cousin because he fell on top of him into a metal stall door. he ended up dying because he had had a blood clot that moved to his brain at that time. now its nothing we did wrong, but it could have been caused by previous owners using different drugs on him. *shug* you never know what the horse has had....


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

> Maura- racing is not miserable for all horses. this is what those horses were bred to do, and for the most part they highly enjoy the race. there are horses who do not like it yes, those are your sulkers. but for the most part... no... that was really untrue and kind of hurtful to those who race. you make us sound like monsters who dont give a crap about how the horse feels.


Please go back and read my entire post. I have worked in the industry. I am *well* aware that it's not miserable for all or even most horses. My point was that a 7 year old, running in cheap races for an owner on a tight budget and most likely, running off of the farm is not a lot of fun long term nor is it a money making endeavor. I know, because I have many friends - small breeders, excercise riders, vets, hangers on, who've done it. 

The fact that he's 5 miles from the track and has a friend with a trainer's licencse changes the equation somewhat. If the horse trains well, and he wants to run him for the summer for the fun of it, maybe it's not such a terrible idea. But, as another poster mentioned above, he runs the risk of injury and ruining the horse as a riding horse.


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

maura said:


> Flogging a 7 year old around cheap tracks in claimers is a miserable experience for pretty much everybody involved, esp. the horse!, and bound to be a money losing proposition.


 this is what you said... it was offencive. i was stating my option on what you said. i dont need to re-read, i read the whole post many times before i commented. 

anyway.... its not miserable if youre doing it for fun and true love of the sport. if youre trying to make a living off of it, thats when its miserable for some, unless you still have that true love of the sport or youre making money.

and you run the risk of injury yes, but you run that risk in ANY discipline. not just racing.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

AlmagroN and Maura - let's not get into it and let's stay on topic.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

It was not intended to be offensive; it was intended to be a statement of my opinion based on my experiences. I have a *lot* of experience with people trying to run cheap horses off the farm and and least not *lose* buckets of money. It's fun for a while, but again, IMO and IME, not for long. 

There was nothing in there that criticized the sport of racing, racehorses in general or racing people. 

I love the track, and I loved working with racehorses. I would go back to it if I could. I am absolutely not one of those people who think racing should be banned, or that the track is all crooked and inhabited by sleazy characters. Sorry if you interpreted my remarks as offensive. It was in no way intended. 

Back to the OP's horse and concerns.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

I got JJ just off the track for nothing, because his owner wanted him to go to a nonracing home.

The reason? He never really wanted to race. He's not big on competition, or even moving if he doesn't have to! :wink:

Some of them just don't WANT to race. Don't know if this guy is like that or not, but I suppose you'll find out.


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## jiblethead (Dec 14, 2009)

Horse Racing is a hard business to get into, especially if your not rich. I would buy the horse to be retrained as a riding horse. If you did bring him back to the races he would probably be a claimer, and he could be claimed away from you in his first race. If he's 7 then he will be a good horse for a long time, just not as a racehorse. I watch horse racing a lot, and the claimer lot is a lot of the times in a sorry condition. He seems like a good riding horse though.


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

maura said:


> Please go back and read my entire post. I have worked in the industry. I am *well* aware that it's not miserable for all or even most horses. My point was that a *7 year old, running in cheap races for an owner on a tight budget* and most likely, running off of the farm is not a lot of fun long term nor is it a money making endeavor. I know, because I have many friends - small breeders, excercise riders, vets, hangers on, who've done it.
> 
> The fact that he's 5 miles from the track and has a friend with a trainer's licencse changes the equation somewhat. If the horse trains well, and he wants to run him for the summer for the fun of it, maybe it's not such a terrible idea. But, as another poster mentioned above, he runs the risk of injury and ruining the horse as a riding horse.


 
I never said anywhere that i was on a tight budget. i am not rich,but my horses are very well taken care of and i DO have the money to take very good care of them. however, i do understand your point. racehorses prices add up fast when you consider all that goes into them.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Good luck with this project! 

Post back often and let us know how it's going and how he's doing.


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

had he not won a race in his life,he would have been descent in a maiden class. those are typically nice easy races. a lot of times people in there hold their horses back from winning because theyre good enough in a maiden, but once they win that race and have to move out of that class theyre just not competitive. that would have been a descent set up for him.....

if you want to take your shot at him go ahead. see how he qualifies and what class he would fit. and go from there. sometimes these guys do make a turn around. but the hardest part of racing is not getting too connected to these horses because they can be claimed from you at ANY time if theyre racing in a claimer (which is where you would need to put him.. he doesnt show enough to really bother putting him in a condition race and getting his head caved in day in and day out) what you will want to do is put him in the easiest races possible, and get his confidence built up. baby him through the races and dont push him until hes really confident and ready. this means you probably wont make squat for a little while... but this is key in conditioning a horse to want to do its best in a race. 

good luck with it... let us know what you decide to do.

and like i said before, if its something you want to get into not just for fun but for profit, youre going to want to look at a better horse than that. check out the actual races and think of maybe claiming a nice one out of there. this way your horse is already ready to go.

whats awesome is when you claim a horse someone really likes, you race them and make money with them, and then they claim them back. its like renting a horse for a few weeks! you lose nothing if it goes that way. we have had that quite a few times! lol


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## HorseSavvy (Mar 15, 2009)

I know enough about racing to get by, but from what I do know his bloodlines look fabulous, lots of famous names


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## HalfPass (Jun 12, 2009)

Piaffe,
I think this is probably a nice horse for the money ~ provided he will pass the vet check. I would have a full on and extensive exam. May want to know if he has ever been injured or had injections...things of that nature.

My father has been in this industry for over 20 yrs. I have seen both sides of the industry. Good and Bad.

Might I make a suggestion...
If you would like to get your foot into this business, I would suggest that you invest in a much younger horse. I say this only because you will start from scratch and can work your way up. There will much better opportunities with a younger horse.

Now...about this gelding....Yes Storm Cat is a wonderful sire. My father has had a few of his offspring out of his personal mares. 
I think you actually might have way way more fun taking this guy and giving him a new job....doing something that the both of you can enjoy.

Racing is a very tough business and I suspect that if your interested in making an invetment into the action you can find a better Race prospect given the economy.
There has to be some training facilities around that have youngsters that are sort of in the same situation as this gelding. Just younger and possibly fitter.

I wish you all the best on this venture. How exciting either way you decide to go.

Keep us posted on how things are going. And, feel free to PM me if you have any questions. Not sure If I can help but I can always try my best....
Halfpass


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

Halfpass- Agreed. i like to explain the options that she has if she does decide to buy and race- from the "inside". its something i have been doing since i was in high school, and i now own and train my own. there is the good, bad, and the just plain ugly to racing. and this is a lot of what people dont know. 

while i agree in investing in a younger horse who hasnt had the time off like this one has, its going to cost more than $300. 

let me put it this way... there is a REASON that hose is $300. it may not have anything to do with soundness, it could just be the fact that he cant hold his own as a racehorse, some just cant. some dont want to. 

i wouldnt focus on bloodlines. really, it means nothing in the end. i have had horses that were bred crap to crap and made awesome racehorses. and i have had racehorses bred out the butt that werent crap. look at my one mare... shes is BRED out the BUTT i mean BRED! but really, shes nothing as a racehorse. her personality gets in the way of her racing. sometimes she will whip out a win when you least expect it, and other times when shes racing against horses that cant beat their own shadow, shes crap and just sucks along. so unless youre looking for a broodmare prospect, dont focus on bloodlines. its about the horse, his conformation, soundness, and HIS PERSONALITY. a horse can have allll the breeding and talent in the world, but with a personality that is conflicting, you have nothing.


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

hmm...you have all given a lot of great advice and i have a lot to think about now  i suppose if i buy him it will be in the next week and i will post pics..lol. 

thanks everyone for your time and input...it was all very helpful!


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## HalfPass (Jun 12, 2009)

Piaffe,
Keep us posted. I am excited for you no mater what your intended use for this gelding. He may turn out to a gem no mater what his job is...
As long as you and he are both happy then it all works out!
Halfpass


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## barnprincess (Dec 17, 2009)

IMO i'd make him into a riding horse. a year off the track probably did him some good and let him wind down. Some horses after being off that long wont race again .. they loose interest. SOME. not all.. But i think at 7 y.o with a cruddy race history should be left alone from the racing world. 1 win out of 21 races says something. I woulden't put him back in that environment for his own good, and yours. Make him into a nice ridng horse =] .


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

hmm....i did get his updated records he has won 3 races


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

i would do it, i think it would be fun! i think it would be so exciting to own/train a racehorse! it would take a lot of work, but it would be fun, and a godo experience. go for it!


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

okay...i have decided (if he passes his vet check of course) that I AM going to buy him. It will be a great experience for me and I doubt another oppurtunity like this will present itself soon. So I am taking my chances and hoping I picked a good horse  I am going to see him again soon and will take some pics and post them so you can critique him. I think he is cute myself...but I am no TB expert of course


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

I went and took some pics of him this evening. He is in a sorry,muddy shape...sorry for the bad pics. It was already dark out so they didn't turn out great. And he had just been taken out of a pen with tons of mud. so what do you think from these pics? i am going to try to get confo pics soon....


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## Eastowest (Mar 26, 2009)

_>>>> hmm....i did get his updated records he has won 3 races _ 

Hmmm is right-- the link I posted to Equibase is the official database of TRA/Jockey Club's records of his racing. The most recent race it shows him running was June 09. Equibase SHOULD be the most current......

http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbHorseInfo.cfm?refno=6881521&registry=T

Have you seen his registration certificate? Wins at recognized tracks are recorded on that certificate. 

So what records did you get and from what source? Now you've got me curious about a more current TB racing data source than Equibase...... :shock:


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

hes cute! i want to see him cleaned up!!!


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

Eastowest said:


> _>>>> hmm....i did get his updated records he has won 3 races _
> 
> Hmmm is right-- the link I posted to Equibase is the official database of TRA/Jockey Club's records of his racing. The most recent race it shows him running was June 09. Equibase SHOULD be the most current......
> 
> ...


 
i got this info from a previous owner:wink: i haven't seen his reg. cert. in person yet,but i am hoping to tomorrow...


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## barnprincess (Dec 17, 2009)

well then they lied... east is right about the most current UTD info with equibase.... he looks fat and happy i'd seriosly think about this.... i woulden't do it.


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

i would do it, most TB's truly love racing, and i think it would be a good experience to own a racehorse. as long as you understand the risks and all the money, you love hroses so i highly doubt you would 'get angry' if he didnt win win win and sell him to slaughter. 
i think why not? it wont hurt anything


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## HalfPass (Jun 12, 2009)

Wow...
Yay and how exciting...
He has the cutes face. I bet he will clean up and condition nicely. Bring him along slowly.
I can't wait to follow all of your progress...what ever you do decide to do with him...
He's a cutie. Looks like he has personality!!
HP


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## CharliesMom (Jul 7, 2009)

Hes got fairly good bloodlines but i personally don't think that blood lines has a lot to do with the ability of the horse, my boy has got bold ruler, secretariat, Seattle slew, and a few other top names in his blood lines but he couldnt race if it would save his life. I don't think he was really all that interested in it, because hes ridiculously fast with me (even though id rather him not go all racehorse when we are out for a hack. LOL ) id really say get a vet out, do a full exam and then try him out yourself and see how he feels about it. But really 7 is pretty up there for a racehorse.


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

barnprincess said:


> well then they lied... east is right about the most current UTD info with equibase.... he looks fat and happy i'd seriosly think about this.... i woulden't do it.


 
i don't think they lied. i talked to people that knew him from the track last year and apparently he was raced in a few large purse unofficial races...lol. and won. Apparently he beat a pretty nice horse last year and won his owner a ton of money. i talked to the guys that worked with him at the track last year and they said he is a really steady,nice,consistant horse to work with. 

and noooooo way am i expecting huge wins or anything and i will like him (almost:wink just as much if he doesn't win anything and the whole thing is a flop. don't worry..i would NEVER send a horse to slaughter:-( He would probably be sold as a barrel racing horse which is big around here or depending on his mindset possibly retrained for light dressage.

I am buying him tomorrow and will be giving him a nice warm bath and a blanket  and then i will post some pretty pics of him...lol. I am so ridiculously excited it isn't even funny  this is a huge dream of mine!


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## barnprincess (Dec 17, 2009)

It dosen't matter who you talked to ... they could boast about him all they want to get you all interested... facts are facts and equibase and equineline are THE MOST UP TO DATE AND CORRECT sites you'll get information from... So again, they lied. Facts are facts. Not trying to put you down but they can tell you he won all the races they want but the truth could be completley opposit. remember a lot of the TB race world is currupt.... Not all of it, but a good portion of it is.

what state are you located in? Whats his tattoo number?


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## barnprincess (Dec 17, 2009)

Cagey cat
*Racing Summary:*








*Starts 25 Firsts 1 Seconds 2 Thirds 3 Earnings* *$ 3,663*


Equibase Company - Thoroughbred Racing Information


this site tells you each race and what he placed in each race and the distance and the jockey and everything... There is even videos of some of his races..


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

she said UNOFFICIAL races. those things dont really keep track of unofficial races.


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## barnprincess (Dec 17, 2009)

well without proof theres no way to know now is there. what are unofficial races any way? never heard of such a thing.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

barnprincess said:


> well without proof theres no way to know now is there. what are unofficial races any way? never heard of such a thing.


These are probably the kind you may see at fairs and such. These are not even "B" class tracks and horses typically that are raced there are the ones that can't win at even the lower end tracks. These tracks are not well maintained and horse breakdowns are possible. Since these horses can be picked up easily from owners that simply don't want to keep a losing horse around many owners will just replace horses that break down under these conditions.

Most GOOD horses are retired at age 4 or possibily 5 with a rare few staying until 6. Now I have seen older horses win at the bigger tracks but they typically can earn enough to keep them racing.

If you have a minimum of $10,000.00 to spare per month to upkeep a racehorse then yes you will keep the older claimers around.


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

barnprincess said:


> well without proof theres no way to know now is there. what are unofficial races any way? never heard of such a thing.


any non wagering races will not be on a racecard, and fair races. so dont assume people lied just because YOU never heard of it.

and YES there IS proof of this. if you pay for an account on something like we have for the STB pathfinder, im not sure what its called for TBs, you CAN get full lines of ALL races- fairs, baby races, stakes, mutuals, etc. but that does cost to have something like that. or like we have at our race office, you can have them print up lines on a horse, but those are only limited since we are getting them for free, it only goes back so many races.


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

wow...i think barnprincess's comment was completely uncalled for! we have local,fun,wagering races that he HAS won. there is records/proof just not on his papers. I don't appreciate your rudeness. You even admitted yourself that you don't even know what you are talking about! How can you give advice on things you don't even understand???

I am going to buy Cagey for fun if nothing else. Thank-you to all those that had informative,constructive,and polite information and advice!


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

i cant wait to hear updates on him! no matter what you choose to do with him!


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

absolutely. hes very cute- though im partial to anything with facial markings! lol. i cant wait to see him all cleaned up.


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

AlmagroN said:


> absolutely. hes very cute- though im partial to anything with facial markings! lol. i cant wait to see him all cleaned up.


 

thanks  as long as i stops raining for at least a little bit sometime in the next couple of days i am going to bathe him and blanket him up. then ...tons,tons,and more tons of pics...lol!


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## HalfPass (Jun 12, 2009)

Yay for you Piaffe.
I love his facial markings too! lol Neither of mine have them

I also agree about the "unoficail and Fair races" 
Since my Dad is a breeder he does have access to that stuff. Just over the holidays he shoed me the records of a few of his horses and not all were at big wager tracks. None of the Papers I have ever had had a "race History/record" on them. They just looked like a car title to me accept for a horse....lol the registration papers. But then none of mine have raced so maybe that has something to do with it....

Your going to have so much fun with this guy. He looks like he has character and he is ready for you to take care of him...

Please do keep us posted on everything...

Halfpass


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

HalfPass said:


> None of the Papers I have ever had had a "race History/record" on them. They just looked like a car title to me accept for a horse....lol the registration papers. But then none of mine have raced so maybe that has something to do with it....


 registration papers done have race history on it. theyre just the registration. decribes the horse- tattoo, markings/color, sex, atlered sex or not, age, birth date/place, owners, etc.

race history has to be done in what they call "pulling a horses lines". you go back into a database and have them printed out for you, or you can also see their lines in a race program if theyre in to go that night, you can see the last 6 or so (im not sure if TBs show a different amount) races.


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

i went to equibase.com and i watched several of his races and got complete details of the 25 he ran in. i don't know if i have any way of getting his records for his unoffical races...but to be honest i don't care. i am only racing him for fun so whatever happens happens


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## HalfPass (Jun 12, 2009)

AlmagroN,
Makes total sense to me.
Piaffe, I al so excited for you. You will get to know this horse and be able to figure out what your plans will be.

We need more pics of him. I am jealous of the facial markings on other peopls horses since mine have none...lol

The weather has been rather wet where I am. Snow rain snow rain and now more bigger snow coming!

Are you going to bring him home for a while or keep him where he is for a bit and then send him on to the track for training? Or loacal facility with a training track to start his work???

Halfpas


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

halfpass,

he is going to the track probably on the first to continue training and to get him in shape again. ...and of course see if he even has the heart to want to run anymore. 

it is funny you should say that about his markings because i have always been partial to horses with absolutely no white markigns..lol...i think your horse in your avatar pic is gorgeous! is he/she a tb?

wet where i am too  rain,rain,rain,hail,sleet,rain ..love it...just not so good for riding!

i didn't get to bathe him today,but sooooooon i hope. i ordered him a warm blanket so it should be here anyday and then i will feel more comfortable giving him a bath so i have a way to keep him warm. 

i went to the track to meet my new...trainer/mentor and she is awesome! i have already learned so much from just a couple hours on the track. and i got to watch several horses work out and some really great jockeys ride. i am so excited to get to be part of this. 

i will keep you updated!


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

its so fun and exciting when you first start. theres so much to learn. i have been doing it since i was in high school (started grooming then) and now i train my own. and ya know, theres ALWAYS new things to learn. you never know it all. and i think thats part of the fun of it. 

good luck with him and YES keep us posted. 

the best part is winning your first race, i had posted my mares first race that she won with me as trainer on here before. it was so amazing, i cried all the way to the winners circle lol. in like 2 weeks she will be ready to qualify and race so im getting excited. i just took her a training trip last saturday, and she was awesome. so im hopeing this saturday she trains great again and then one more time, and she will be going to qualifiers. hopefully she will win her first start. *knock on wood* shes won her first start every year for the last 4 yrs.... lets not break it now!!!!:lol:


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## HalfPass (Jun 12, 2009)

Hello,
Piaffe, the horse in my avatar is my almost 5 yr old mare. She is a TB and was bred and trained to run. She never raced. She was bred by my dad.
My other horse (gelding) was bred by my Dad as well. He was scratched from his first race and then he never went back because I screamed and cried about it.....lol

I can remember as a kid going to thr track all the time. My dad would have me with him at the barn in the paddock and in the winners circle...lol It is funny to see those old photos! Just about 3 or so days ago one of the horses he bred won a race and I was soooo excited for him. He no longer owns the horse but as a breeder does recieve a percentage when they place.
Watching the work outs is a lot of fun. I havent done than in many many years. I am glad that your enjoying your venture.
Please due keep us posted. I am very very excited for you!!!
Halfpass


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

HalfPass said:


> He no longer owns the horse but as a breeder does recieve a percentage when they place.


 are you kidding me?!?!?! not fair!!!!!!! we dont get anything like that!!! the only people who get money are the owner and trainer here.... and they typically pay the groom who paddocks the horse $40, $50-$60 if they win. or if its a stake race its usually around $100


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## Eastowest (Mar 26, 2009)

_>>>> registration papers done have race history on it. theyre just the registration. decribes the horse- tattoo, markings/color, sex, atlered sex or not, age, birth date/place, owners, etc._

*I have three Jockey-Club -registered TB mares, and all three have every one of their race wins at a recognized track recorded on their registration papers. They are handwritten in the section on the bottom of the papers which says "OFFICIAL RECORD of races won in the United States, Canada, and Puerto Rico", where there are columns and lines printed for the specific purpose of recording each win-- along with the date, $ amount won, type of race, distance, name of track, and the signature of the Racing Secretary or an authorized agent from that track.*

*To find out other placings and earnings other than from wins you have to check Equibase, and for unrocognized starts (like at a fair or etc.) you would need info from the owner/that track/race, but TB wins from official starts at recognized tracks are indeed recorded on their registration certificates.*


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

oh see our STBs dont have that. but as you said thats races that were official, that would leave out fair races and non wagering races.


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## HalfPass (Jun 12, 2009)

AlmagroN..
Yes it is true. lol It is not a really large percentage. Interesting that STBs don't have that.

Piaffe....
Any news on your guy???
HP


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

lol....not much news. I have "officially" bought him now i am waiting on his bath until his new blanket arrives so he still looks like a mudball..lol. here is a new pic of his face. I am going to go ahead and move him to the track on the 1st to start getting him in shape!


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## HalfPass (Jun 12, 2009)

awww.... Piaffe
He looks so sweet. He actually looks like he likes the camera 
Yay for you two!


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