# real life stories of HYPP horses



## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

There is a story floating around that the horse collapsed at a show while ridden by a young girl. She wasn't killed. I'd like to explain something about HYPP horses. They need a low potassium diet, pasture, oats, senior feed. When this story began, and it's old, there wasn't a lot known about it. It was about 7 yrs before it was understood and what diet changes needed to be made. An HH is more likely to be symptomatic than an NH. NN rules it out completely. There are symptoms an observant handler can spot if knowing what to look for and take measures to prevent the horse having an episode. Why it's called that is that altho you'd think it was an epileptic seizure, it's not and the horse is perfectly fine. AQHA stopped registering HH stallions and mare about 1997?. There are many fine stallions nowadays that don't carry the gene. BTW, Impressive did not have HYPP, he passed a gene along that produced it in many offspring. Hope this helps. I have an NH and did a lot of research before getting him. He's never had an episode or even been symptomatic. HYPP is almost a dead issue as many of the carriers are gone.


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## Dehda01 (Jul 25, 2013)

Yes, I have personally seen a horse start to have an episode and throw her rider. The same farm had two stallions die very young in their stalls because of HYPP episodes. I stopped being willing to have any association with that farm after that. They blamed a bad batch of hay, but the episodes were over about a year.
Lots of the halter breeders are still using NH horses WAY too much, and HH horses are still floating around. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I groomed for a halter trainer and found out about HYPP the hard way. Stallion was HH and had an episode where he started to fasiculate and I didn't know anything about HYPP, I had always been in TBs and Arabians, so didn't realize it wasn't a fly bugging him. He fell over on top of me, and it was a while before anyone could get him off of me. Wasn't fun. Needless to say, once I understood what had happened I studied up on HYPP so as to know what was happening when they had an episode and what to do when one occurred. NOT fun, don't recommend anyone breeding to an NH horse, especially not if the 2nd half of the breeding equation is also NH, the risk just is not acceptable to me.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

I have had N/H horses. My first one I purchased not knowing her status,when found out did lots of research on their care & spoke vet plus to many people that have cared for positive horses. Pretty much all of them owned asymptomatic horses.Mine I never once witnessed any episodes & even diligently kept watch for signs if I felt horse was in a stressful situation. People I know that did witness an attack,could in hindsight see what probably triggered the episode:wink:. I think education & management is key!! Believe most horses can live an asymtomatic lives with proper care. Then there is always an exception to rule to have one that is problematic despite your best efforts,but it is not the norm. Know vets I spoke to said they had very few problems related from their clients HYPP positive horses. Would I own another HYPP positive horse??..No,but ONLY for reason that there is such a stigma & fear against them if you have to sell,not that I never liked them or had problems related to HYPP:neutral:.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

O/T but is there anything you CAN do once an episode has started (in the moment)


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Yogiwick said:


> O/T but is there anything you CAN do once an episode has started (in the moment)


We gave the halter horses 60 cc of Dark Karo Corn Syrup in an oral syringe. Something about the Karo made the sodium channels reverse what they were doing that was incorrect and the fasiculations would slow and, hopefully, stop. I got real good at telling when it was a fly vs an HYPP episode starting and never got fallen on again.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Oral administration of Karo Syrup for mild attacks lowers the potassium level by providing a dextrose/sugar in the circulating blood.This raises the insulin secretion rate in the horse,resulting in a glucose and potassium absorption. That is easiest first line of defense:wink:. Also maintance administration of Acetazolimide tablets with proper diet to problematic horses.

For severe attacks a vet is needed for Intravenous administration of Calcium gluconate,dextrose


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## CinnaDex (Jan 19, 2014)

This is really interesting, subbing!


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

My mother had a mare for ten years or so who we now own a gelding out of. I never saw any problems with her. They put her down last year due to cancer eye. (My husband's gelding has so much going for him genetically. Lol)


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## MyBoySi (Dec 1, 2011)

I have an NH gelding. I monitor his diet and have never seen him have an attack. I ride him quite alot as my main trail horse. 

We do keep karo syrup on hand l but have never had to use it in the 8 years I've known him. 

I personally have never heard of a hypp horse falling on anyone while being ridden.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

ALL of the halter horses in that barn were symptomatic. And just as an aside, coming from the Arab world where we expected our stallions to be family horses and behave, to that barn where they were some serious PIGS nearly put me off Stock Type horses FOREVER. I wouldn't have had one of those creatures as a gift, with or without the HYPP. 

I got good at giving the Karo at the first sign of trouble and at that time, early 2000's I don't know if they were giving Acetazolimide tablets, I know they were still feeding alfalfa which we now know not to do. I do remember that one of the Vet's stallions was quite prone to severe attacks and her giving him the IV Calcium and that it was always risky and iffy that he'd pull out of it. He was very unstable. 

I didn't work there long, there were just too many things going on that I wasn't comfortable with, so I found other things to do fairly quickly.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

MyBoySi said:


> I personally have never heard of a hypp horse falling on anyone while being ridden.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



:iagree: this has been my experience as well, have never heard of an attack happening to anyone when riding that I have ever spoken to either :wink: Hear stories floating around on internet but, I prefer to go with what my own experiences & from those I know when forming my opinion on HYPP horses. Riding a HYPP pos horse, know I never gave it second thought about ohh.. better not ride....might drop dead!:music019::icon_rolleyes:


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> ALL of the halter horses in that barn were symptomatic. And just as an aside, coming from the Arab world where we expected our stallions to be family horses and behave, to that barn where they were some serious PIGS nearly put me off Stock Type horses FOREVER. I wouldn't have had one of those creatures as a gift, with or without the HYPP.
> 
> I got good at giving the Karo at the first sign of trouble and at that time, early 2000's I don't know if they were giving Acetazolimide tablets, I know they were still feeding alfalfa which we now know not to do. I do remember that one of the Vet's stallions was quite prone to severe attacks and her giving him the IV Calcium and that it was always risky and iffy that he'd pull out of it. He was very unstable.
> 
> I didn't work there long, there were just too many things going on that I wasn't comfortable with, so I found other things to do fairly quickly.


That would put me off too working in a barn like that:-x !!! I personally know a few Halter horse breeders around that have N/H stock,one even had an H/H stallion. Horses are well behaved that I have seen & talking to them have they have seen very few episodes & very few of the horses are needing to be on maintance meds either. Sounds Like Place you worked had a real management problem,feel sorry for those horses


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

At that time there wasn't a lot known about managing HYPP, and because the halter folks were still denying it existed and breeding for it, it was pretty much not well managed. I think the behavioral problems were caused because they knew stress could bring on an episode, so they never corrected they horses so as not to stress them. They bit, they shoved, they were just ..... awful. Beautiful but awful.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> We gave the halter horses 60 cc of Dark Karo Corn Syrup in an oral syringe. Something about the Karo made the sodium channels reverse what they were doing that was incorrect and the fasiculations would slow and, hopefully, stop. I got real good at telling when it was a fly vs an HYPP episode starting and never got fallen on again.


I've heard of that but didn't realize it worked immediately. So scary either way! Must be for the poor horse too!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Yogiwick said:


> I've heard of that but didn't realize it worked immediately. So scary either way! Must be for the poor horse too!


It wasn't exactly immediately but it was pretty quick. Kind of like giving a diabetic who's having a severe low blood sugar event, honey or Karo under the tongue. It doesn't take long to act.


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## MrsKD14 (Dec 11, 2015)

I've been around two. 

First one, Karo syrup every time. Always pulled through fine. 

Second one, owner thought I was nuts. She called me from work to come help be she thought the horse was having a bout of colic. Turned out she was. But the stress of that triggered an episode. I called the BO and vet. They both confirmed I wasn't off. We lost her. Both issues going on at once in a very young horse just didn't go well. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Saddlebag said:


> There is a story floating around that the horse collapsed at a show while ridden by a young girl. She wasn't killed. I'd like to explain something about HYPP horses. They need a low potassium diet, pasture, oats, senior feed. When this story began, and it's old, there wasn't a lot known about it. It was about 7 yrs before it was understood and what diet changes needed to be made. An HH is more likely to be symptomatic than an NH. NN rules it out completely. There are symptoms an observant handler can spot if knowing what to look for and take measures to prevent the horse having an episode. Why it's called that is that altho you'd think it was an epileptic seizure, it's not and the horse is perfectly fine. AQHA stopped registering HH stallions and mare about 1997?. There are many fine stallions nowadays that don't carry the gene. BTW, Impressive did not have HYPP, he passed a gene along that produced it in many offspring. Hope this helps. I have an NH and did a lot of research before getting him. He's never had an episode or even been symptomatic. HYPP is almost a dead issue as many of the carriers are gone.


The mutation for HYPP occurred when Impressive was conceived, thus he had that genetic defect, in order to pass it on, even if he himself never had an episode, he had to have been HYPP pos, or he could not have passed hypp on
Got to have the defective gene in order to pass it on , LOL


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

HYPP is an autosomal dominant genetic defect, meaning both sexes are equally affected, and dominant means that there are no silent carriers-if the horse gets one copy of that defective gene, he is hypp pos
Also, just because a hypp parent has no episodes, does not mean if he passes that defect on, an offspring can't be more severely affected
It is hardly a non issue, as many halter breeding programs are built around HYPP positive horses, and since AQHA is an outcross for both Paints and Appaloosas, those stock horse breeds also have HYPP in them
All HYpp horses trace back to Impressive, so it is pretty much confirmed that when he was conceived, a genetic mutation occurred, creating a dominant genetic defect, which became known as HYPP, and which he then passed on to many of his offspring (50/50 chance)
AQHA has moved very slowly in also excluding HYPP heterozygous horses from registration, for the very reason they fear a back lash , from those halter programs, built around HYpp heterozygous horses
Since it is a dominant defect, thus no carrier state that is asymptomatic, as in HERDA, which is a recessive genetic defect, thus needing to have two copies of the defect, for clinical disease, no horse with a dominant genetic defect should be bred


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Equine HYPP[edit]
Symptoms and presentation[edit]
This inherited disease is characterized by violent muscle twitching and substantial muscle weakness or paralysis among affected horses. HYPP is a dominant genetic disorder; therefore, heterozygotes bred to genotypically normal horses have a statistic probability of producing clinically affected offspring 50% of the time.

Horses with HYPP can be treated with some possibility of reducing clinical signs, but the degree that medical treatment helps varies from horse to horse. There is no cure. Horses with HYPP often lose muscle control during an attack.

Some horses are more affected by the disease than others and some attacks will be more severe than others, even in the same horse. Symptoms of an HYPP attack may include:

Muscle trembling
Prolapse of the third eyelid — this means that the third eyelid flickers across the eye or covers more of the eye than normal
Generalized weakness
Weakness in the hind end — the horse may look as though it is 'dog-sitting'
Complete collapse
Abnormal whinny — because the muscles of the voicebox are affected as well as other muscles
Death — in a severe attack the diaphragm is paralyzed and the horse can suffocate
HYPP attacks occur randomly and can strike a horse standing calmly in a stable just as easily as during exercise. Following an HYPP attack, the horse appears normal and is not in any pain which helps to distinguish it from Equine Exertional Rhabdomyolysis (ER), commonly known as "Azoturia," "Monday Morning Sickness" or "tying up." Horses that are tying up usually suffer attacks in connection with exercise and may take anywhere from 12 hours to several days to recover. Muscle tissue is damaged in an attack of ER, and the horse will be in pain during and following an attack. A blood test will reveal elevations in certain muscle enzymes after an episode of ER and so the two diseases, while superficially similar, are easily distinguished from one another in the laboratory.

Unlike with seizures, horses with HYPP are fully conscious and lucid during an attack. Horses may suffocate during an HYPP attack due to paralysis of the respiratory system. Horses that collapse during an episode are clearly distressed as they repeatedly struggle to get to their feet. If this occurs while the horse is being ridden or otherwise handled, the human handler or rider may be at risk of being injured by the movement of the horse.


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## HombresArablegacy (Oct 12, 2013)

Smilie said:


> HYPP is an autosomal dominant genetic defect, meaning both sexes are equally affected, and dominant means that there are no silent carriers-if the horse gets one copy of that defective gene, he is hypp pos
> Also, just because a hypp parent has no episodes, does not mean if he passes that defect on, an offspring can't be more severely affected
> It is hardly a non issue, as many halter breeding programs are built around HYPP positive horses, and since AQHA is an outcross for both Paints and Appaloosas, those stock horse breeds also have HYPP in them
> All HYpp horses trace back to Impressive, so it is pretty much confirmed that when he was conceived, a genetic mutation occurred, creating a dominant genetic defect, which became known as HYPP, and which he then passed on to many of his offspring (50/50 chance)
> ...


Excellent and well written explanation Smilie. Thank You. 

I remember seeing an advertisement in a QH magazine many years ago by the owners of Impressive. This was after HYPP had been scientifically proven to originate with Impressive. They were still offering breedings to him, and if the resulting foal tested H/H, they offered to take the foal back,AND give another breeding to him. I WAS APPALLED by the greed and deliberate attempts to gloss over this horrible disease. And people took them up on the offer!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Smilie said:


> HYPP is an autosomal dominant genetic defect, meaning both sexes are equally affected, and dominant means that there are no silent carriers-if the horse gets one copy of that defective gene, he is hypp pos
> Also, just because a hypp parent has no episodes, does not mean if he passes that defect on, an offspring can't be more severely affected
> It is hardly a non issue, as many halter breeding programs are built around HYPP positive horses, and since AQHA is an outcross for both Paints and Appaloosas, those stock horse breeds also have HYPP in them
> All HYpp horses trace back to Impressive, so it is pretty much confirmed that when he was conceived, a genetic mutation occurred, creating a dominant genetic defect, which became known as HYPP, and which he then passed on to many of his offspring (50/50 chance)
> ...


Very clear and well written Smilie. HYPP is FAR from a dead issue, at least down here in the US and the halter world. There are programs whose entire breeding plan center around HYPP horses and they feel that the risk of having an H/H foal is acceptable in the pursuit of a World Champion halter horse. Having worked in that barn with those horses, I absolutely won't breed an N/H horse. Period. Full Stop. 

When Boo was still in foal to the stallion she'd been bred to before I bought her, I absolutely could not understand WHY on God's green earth anyone would breed a Frame Mare (turned out she wasn't but her previous owner thought she was) to a Frame Overo Stallion who ALSO was N/H. The mare is N/N, so they knew that they couldn't get an H/H foal but still...Why on earth would you run the risk of having a foal that if it didn't need to be euthanized for being homozygous Frame, would also have a chance of being N/H for HYPP? I guess if there was an Arab in the wood pile somewhere the foal could have come out a carrier for SCID and LFS just for fun. Good Grief!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

MrsKD14 said:


> I've been around two.
> 
> First one, Karo syrup every time. Always pulled through fine.
> 
> ...


Horrible 

Smilie while I COMPLETELY agree, it is my understand that NH as opposed to HH do tend more towards asymptomatic and if symptomatic tend to have less severe symptoms. Lesser evil of course- completely unacceptable either way and unfortunately the new rules still do not prevent HH's being bred correct (as parents)? Also, has this ever followed through to other affected breeds (APHA?)

That's the worst part to me, the panic the poor horses must have. Can you imagine? How much worse can it get.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Yogiwick said:


> Horrible
> 
> Smilie while I COMPLETELY agree, it is my understand that NH as opposed to HH do tend more towards asymptomatic and if symptomatic tend to have less severe symptoms. Lesser evil of course- completely unacceptable either way and unfortunately the new rules still do not prevent HH's being bred correct (as parents)? Also, has this ever followed through to other affected breeds (APHA?)
> 
> That's the worst part to me, the panic the poor horses must have. Can you imagine? How much worse can it get.


far as I know HYPP pos/pos horses are so severely affected, that most are in research facilities.

No, there is no way of knowing how severe symptoms in an HYPP pos/neg horse will be, and whether one might fall into the lucky few that are asymptomatic, and that asymptomatic hypp pos horse can produce ones that can be severely affected

Actually since homozygous hypp pos horses can't be registered, , they could not be used in a program that produces registered horses. No, those breeding programs are now built around heterozygous HYPP horses, and if tow are bred together, both passing on that HYPP gene, then that offspring can't be registered, even if it survives
Yes, both ApHC (Appaloosa ) and APHA (Paints ) have AQHA as an allowable outcross,and also have halter programs centered around HYPP heterozygous horses


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Did they pull registrations on "current" HH horses? I thought they just couldn't register "new" horses.

(Good point though lol)


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I don't believe that they pulled registrations, just made it so you can't register new H/H foals. Not going far enough, but at least it's a step in the right direction. Paints and Pintos don't have that restriction I don't believe. Don't know about Apps.


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## Sandy B (Mar 2, 2016)

Has anyone else seen evidence of change in behavior in HYPP positive horse? Our horse was so docile and loving for first 3 years before he had first of his seizures. Now he has become aggressive- biting, kicking, raring at humans, and trying to run over humans. We are trying to determine why he is having this drastic change in his personality. Do you have any suggestions about how to care for him to improve his attitude? It is dangerous to groom him or clean his hooves. We are fearful to even be in corral with him.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Some of the horses I handled behaved like that and I honestly believe if they'd been given the same training as the NON HYPP horses, they would have come around. They wouldn't do it though, because stress can bring on an attack. I have to wonder which is worse, having to put the horse down for his aggression or dealing with an episode or 2 while you teach him some manners? 

My answer for the op, sadly is, I wouldn't handle him, not for all the tea in china. I'd recommend you get a trainer in there to help you.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Since his episode (not a seizure as it's not epilepsy) have you changed how you handle him, perhaps sympathetic. If so this could be what has bro't on his behavior. Be sure to keep him on a low potassium diet (oats for grain is good) as is senior pellets. These horses should be on turnout to keep them moving. Provide loose coarse salt as well as a lick. And plenty of water. No apples or carrots as they are too high in potassium. My n/h has never been symptomatic with his previous owner, a vet, nor the 9 yrs with me. Treats are either part of an alfalfa cube or senior pellets. My NH is the kindest "old" soul you could ever hope to meet.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Hypp does not cause change in disposition like OP describes:sad: the N/H horses I owned were quiet & all great to work with.  can read horse forum& websites but I'll go with Personal experience & the experiences of that of my peers & vets dealing with HYPP horses .That is the info I find most creditable.:wink:


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

paintedpastures said:


> Hypp does not cause change in disposition like OP describes:sad: the N/H horses I owned were quiet & all great to work with.  can read horse forum& websites but I'll go with Personal experience & the experiences of that of my peers & vets dealing with HYPP horses .That is the info I find most creditable.:wink:


Is my computer messing up? Where is the OP saying her horse has a disposition change? I only see that she is curious to learn more about HYPP as she is writing about it.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Yogiwick said:


> Is my computer messing up? Where is the OP saying her horse has a disposition change? I only see that she is curious to learn more about HYPP as she is writing about it.


 OOPs,No I'm sorry not OP but I was replying to another post from
Sandy B a question about behavior changes in HYPP horse:wink:


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

Sandy B said:


> Has anyone else seen evidence of change in behavior in HYPP positive horse? Our horse was so docile and loving for first 3 years before he had first of his seizures. Now he has become aggressive- biting, kicking, raring at humans, and trying to run over humans. We are trying to determine why he is having this drastic change in his personality. Do you have any suggestions about how to care for him to improve his attitude? It is dangerous to groom him or clean his hooves. We are fearful to even be in corral with him.


FWIW, HYPP attacks are not seizures. Has he been actually tested?
However as air can be cut off for extended periods of time, I see no reason why a horse COULDN'T have some sort of brain damage from a SEVERE attack.

I'd consult with your vet and a very good trainer on where to go from here.


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