# Rolling?? What do you think?



## PechosGoldenChance (Aug 23, 2009)

This, to me, isn't really that big a deal. I personally think I was being tested here but tell me what you think. I rode my horse for about 20 minutes on monday. As soon as we got out there not even one lap around the arena, she stopped. I was actually testing her to see what she would do, such as roll. She has never rolled before with anyone on her. She dropped down and rolled. I was able to get off in time though. Also, she hasn't really been rode all winter long, just let out to frolic here and there. Still, no excuse though and I'm aware of that.

When she did, I stood there and waited for her to stop. As soon as she stopped and stood up, I took the reins off and ran her around the arena for a bit, both ways. Than stopped and got back on her. She was fine after that. I rode her yesterday and she didn't even attempt to roll. Why do you think she did this??


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

Does she have a chance to roll on her own time, regularly? 
I'm just wondering because I read somewhere, a long time ago (I'm not sure if this has been substantiated at all, but it sounds reasonable), that horses have a psychological and physical NEED to roll and if they aren't able to roll it can actually be bad for them. I think the article compared it to cracking your back, when you have a crick in your back and can't do what you need to do to get rid of it, it's a horrible feeling!


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

You just stood there and let her have her roll???:shock:

That was very nice of you.:lol::lol:

See I am learning manners.

I'm having a real hard time here biting my tongue. Maybe I should get down and roll?


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

I think that what Rio is trying to say - maybe too nicely (LOL) - is that you just reinforced her tendency to roll. She may not do it again for a bit or she may do it each time you ride her but the long an short of it is that your letting her was very wrong.

Each time you come into contact with a horse, you are training her. Each thing she does that you allow, means it's OK to do it. The more you allow it the deeper ingrained it becomes. Never - ever - allow a horse to roll with you on her back or even while you are leading her - ever. You are creating a dangerous behavior.


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

I agree with the above. I kind of see where you were going with "seeing what she would do" but the most important thing to do when training is to stop a behavior at their very first inclination to do it. When you realized she was going down for a roll, you should have done everything you could to get her moving forward. *That* was the time for the correction, not after she had done it. 

The good thing is, now you know what the signs of her about to go down for a roll are and the second you see them, get that girl moving!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I also agree with the above posters. You just taught her that it is OK to get a good roll in while riding, and bonus, it gets the rider off.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

She probably had an itchy back and wanted it scratched. Next time she tries to go down yield her hindquarters around and make her move. Don't let her lay down every time she wants.


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## shesinthebarn (Aug 1, 2009)

I agree with Kevin...


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## Rule of Reason (Feb 11, 2010)

Make me one more car on the agreement train. I believe that scenario is called setting her up for failure.


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## ptvintage (Feb 12, 2010)

She probably did it because she was itchy. I'm in agreement with everyone else. Don't let your horse do this. It's fairly common when crossing water for them to try this, and you definitely don't want to let them get away with it. 

I used to be a trail guide for a stable that took the public on trail rides, and we always needed to tell people to keep the horse moving through the water. Nearly every time, there would always be one or two that attempted to roll in the water.

I knew a girl a long time ago that had a BLM mustang. He stopped and rolled during a class in show one time because he was itchy. He ended up covered in sand. His owner, a 11 year old girl, was very embarrassed. He was a pretty naughty horse, and it was just another behavior that he got away with. (The girl wasn't confident enough to deal with a formerly wild horse)

It was funny at the time, but it's really not that funny. Just another behavior you don't want to encourage. "Look! I trained my rider to jump off my back when I roll"


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

a lady at my barn broke her leg when the horse got down to roll when she was riding.... not ever an ok behavior


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## PechosGoldenChance (Aug 23, 2009)

Ok, here's my opinion. Have any of you ever heard that when someone/something does something bad, than they get "arrested" for it?? Well, thats what I did. I let her roll, she got up than after she did that bad thing, she got arrested for it. It's as simple as that. She has not rolled on me at all since then. No, I'm not setting her up for failure at all. There are plenty of different ways to train/break a horse of a bad habit and this is my way of doing it. It hasn't failed me yet and it wont. I probably shouldn't put this on here. This is one of the worst websites for horses to get good information from. All I every hear, eevn on other posts is people being totally rediculous.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

You do a foolish stunt and you expect roses and accolades? Your horse got arrested? You need to grow up child and learn about horses and behavior. If you feel that all you get on this forum is ridicule, then you should consider what it is that you are doing. What you got was solid advise. You are dealing with a horse, not a hamster.

If you feel that you would get different advise after posting what you did, then that is a forum that I would avoid like the plague.


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## dressagebelle (May 13, 2009)

People and horses are two different creatures, and you have to remember that. With a person, arresting them after the fact, no matter how after that may be, the person remembers exactly what they did wrong, and why they are being punished, but a horse thinks differently. A horse thinks in the moment. They don't remember why they are being punished now for something they did 2 minutes ago. As far as they know they are being punished because you walked in the stall, or you took the bridle off, or whatever the case may be. Your way may not have failed you yet, and maybe it never will, but the best way to correct a horse and get the point across, is to stop them WHILE they are doing the undesired action. As soon as she starts to roll, make her get up and run around, don't wait for her to get up on her own, when a horse bites, correct as soon as they start to grab your shirt or whatever, not after they have already bitten you. I could give more examples, but I think that gets the point across.


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## IslandWave (Nov 25, 2009)

PechosGoldenChance said:


> Ok, here's my opinion. Have any of you ever heard that when someone/something does something bad, than they get "arrested" for it?? Well, thats what I did. I let her roll, she got up than after she did that bad thing, she got arrested for it. It's as simple as that. She has not rolled on me at all since then. No, I'm not setting her up for failure at all. There are plenty of different ways to train/break a horse of a bad habit and this is my way of doing it. It hasn't failed me yet and it wont. I probably shouldn't put this on here. This is one of the worst websites for horses to get good information from. All I every hear, eevn on other posts is people being totally rediculous.


 
If you stopped the person from doing bad before they even did it or when they showed signs of doing bad, then the whole problem can be solved with it even manifesting.

What most people here are telling you is exactly that. Stop the behavior before it happens (when possible).

I'm glad that what you did seemed to work, but if you prevent, you don't have to correct. 

Take for example a horse that turns around to bite you while you're grooming it. The horse probably started this bad behavior by turning into the person, nudging them, and it progressed into biting. Do I want to prevent the biting from ever happening by correcting the turning in, or do I wait for the horse to actually bite me before I correct it?
That's just the way I see it.

(I find it funny that you joined, by choice, a forum that is "the worst")


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

My cousins horse rolled when me n him were riding them into a pond to cool them off, hahaha it was the funniest thing ive ever seen in my life, my cousin sat on the hroses side as sam (the hrose) rolled onto his other side in the water XD 
personally, i think you handled it fine, now you know what it feels like when shes about to roll, and nextime? you can just give her a nudge with your legs to keep her going. and maybe it was a once in a million years kinda thing... if it were me i wouldnt be freakin out about the horses bad habits or anything, i would be screaming "YOU BLOODY HORSE! YOUR GOING TO BREAK MY SADDLE' tehehe but thats jsut me


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## Fowl Play (Sep 22, 2009)

Is it wrong that the first thought in my mind was "did the saddle survive?" I don't know about the behavior, but I do know I'd be shooting flames over an expensive piece of equipment being ruined.


this coming from a mom who is trying to teach her daughter the value of the saddle and bridle she got as a Christmas present. I think I've done a darn good job on that on...


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

^haha thats what goes through my mind, yesturday, my horse took off on me and i decided not to bail because the bridle would get ruined haha and if any horse dared to ven scratch my precious saddle......... haha


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## CrazyChester (May 5, 2008)

Fowl Play said:


> Is it wrong that the first thought in my mind was "did the saddle survive?" I don't know about the behavior, but I do know I'd be shooting flames over an expensive piece of equipment being ruined.
> 
> 
> this coming from a mom who is trying to teach her daughter the value of the saddle and bridle she got as a Christmas present. I think I've done a darn good job on that on...


I hope not because that is the first thing I thought too. :lol: Anyway...I agree with everyone else, hope you get it all sorted.


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## PechosGoldenChance (Aug 23, 2009)

Well, I should say that I was bareback. So, no saddle, thank god, or else I'm sure it would have gotten messed up...shes a big girl. This isn't the first time I've had a horse try to roll on me, so basically what I was saying in my first post when I said that "it wasn't a big deal", I meant that it's not anything new to me. My little story on the arresting deal, was taught to me by a previous instructor when I first started to get into horses a looonngg time ago. So, when Iridehorses, says that I need to grow up, that means that my 60-something yr old instructor needs to grow up too? Also, I've heard that arresting situation before. What I did when I made her run around...I immediately got off, and as soon as she got up, I was after her like flies on garbage! Granted, I probably should have pulled her up immediately, yet I do not know the last time they were out, I'm sure it was a loonng time ago. They do not stay at my house, and techinically, they are my aunts horses. I basically adopted the one I'm talking about now, because no one wants to ride her because she's got a major 'go' button, which I've calmed her down with that, and I also sacked her out and she does amazing with unfamiliar objects now. I see all others views on how I should/should have taken care of things, but every horse is different and this method that I have works out, and has worked out for all the other horses I've worked with. 

I don't necessarily think the forum is the "worst", yet the people on here just seem soooo **** judgemental, it can be extremely rediculous at times. All I'm looking for is advice on WHY she might have done this, not what I should do...ya know??? And those comments some leave when they say, "I'm biting my tongue right now"...that's not helping a bit dude! All I asked for was WHY, WHY, WHY...I don't have time for these childish comments SOME of the people on here leave/have left. Thats all I'm trying to say.


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## Painted Horse (Dec 29, 2006)

My first thought was broken saddle tree. Glad to hear you were bareback.

I have a gelding that loves to try and roll. But I see the signs and just put him to work when he's under saddle. Whe we are coming down the trail and I see him putting his head down to look at a sandy spot, or in the winter, he'll start looking at fluffy powder snow. 

Now once the the saddle is off, It's fair game for him to roll after a ride.
I always lead my horses over to a nice spot and give them the chance before I load them up in the trailer.










Or a video of him rolling in the sand.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

she was probably itchy

but that still doesnt make it ok


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Because she wanted to roll...?

I once saw a girls horse roll while in the dam at PC. It was freakin hilarious! She and the horse ended up covered in mud! Of course it may have been funnier because I didn't like her and she was horrible to her horses, lol. She had to ride the rest of training in wet jods :]

I'm with the others on never, ever letting a horse roll with a rider. So, so dangerous.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

you might break your leg next time, like the lady at my barn !


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

^ Who might?


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Regarding the 'arresting' thing.... the problem with that method is that horses don't have the cognitive ability that humans do. You can explain to a human "you're being arrested because you did X, and that was wrong." You cannot explain that to a horse. I employ a 3-second rule with horses; if they do something wrong, I have 3 seconds to react, and if I can't react quick enough, I move on as if nothing happened. 
Horses cannot think beyond "I did X and got Y reaction" and it's all in a very very short period of time. Your horse was allowed to roll, then got up and was punished - to your horse, the punishment was for standing up, NOT for rolling. 
The bottom line is that you taught your horse that it was OK to roll while you were on her. 

By ALLOWING the horse to roll (i.e. if you DIDN'T get after the horse AS it was going down or as SOON as it was down) you taught her that it was OK to roll. Period. 
The best way to deal with a horse that's going to roll? Don't let it. As soon as you feel the horse start to 'set up' (sniffing, pawing, getting front and hind legs together) you get after it. If the horse is sneaky and DOES get down on the ground , you don't just stand there, you get after the horse. 
Does that make sense? 

I will NEVER allow a horse to roll undersaddle (figuratively speaking. If the horse is working, it is NOT allowed to roll - doesn't matter if the horse is on a lunge line with just a halter, or being ridden bareback, or being ridden with a saddle.
I DO let Denny roll after most workouts. I take the saddle/surcingle/whatever else off, lead him to a spot, take his halter or bridle off, and say "ok, you can roll" and THAT is the only time he's allowed to roll while 'in work' with me.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

wild_spot said:


> ^ Who might?


the person who lets their horse get down & roll while they are riding !!!


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

PechosGoldenChance said:


> This, to me, isn't really that big a deal. I personally think I was being tested here but tell me what you think.
> 
> Why do you think she did this??


1) Yes, you were being tested, and she won.

2) Probably because she was itchy and didn't care that you were on/near her. To me, that is also a huge sign of disrespect.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Why did she? Well, she wanted to and you let her. That simple.


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## HorseLove4ever (Apr 21, 2009)

I don't understand how you are supposed to be taken seriously when you spell "ridiculous" wrong. My horse loves to roll, as most horses do, but i would never EVER let him roll while being ridden, lead around, or lunged. When I free lunge him, i let him roll before and after, but that is it. I'm just saying, if it were me, I would have never let my horse finish rolling. They think in that minute and corrections must be made right then and there. One slip up like that, can cause a very long tme of training and corrections to solve, seeing as you have let her know that it is "okay" to roll during that situation.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> the person who lets their horse get down & roll while they are riding !!!


I was only asking because you posted right after me with no new posts.

I agree 100% with JDI - As usual, exactly what i think, but said better :]


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## emilyanne (Feb 24, 2010)

My horse loves rolling in sand so I try and let him go at the ring to role and then I get on and ride and it works well. He is alot better to ride after that. If I don't he also drops and roles


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## PechosGoldenChance (Aug 23, 2009)

Horselove4ever: Once again, the comment you made about me making simple spelling mistake is not kool. Too childish dude, seriously. A spelling mistake!? Come on...ok here...I'm sorry, but that has nothing what so ever to do with this thread. Unless you have anything productive to say, don't say anything at all, or you will be ignored. Thanks!

Honestly, the reason I didn't do anything, was because I couldn't! I was sooooo shocked that she did that, I just stood there in awe, pretty much. Normally, I think I can be a little TOO hard on them sometimes, but this time, wasn't because I was trying to be nice, I was simply just shocked. Next time, I will make sure she doesn't go down, and if she does, than I won't be as shocked and I guarantee you, I will get after her. 

Gypsy: I feel bad for the lady who broke her leg. However, I'm still a young woman who works out everyday, and I also run, I'm pretty 'on-top' of things, and I'm pretty quick to come to my whits. I jump off faster than you can blink your eyes lol. I'm not trying to be a smart *** at all, I swear!

JustDressageIt: You have a good point. Yet, I have seen the method done before many times, which is why I did it. Like I said, granted I probably should have done something whilst she was in action, but I just couldn't due to shock, and disappointment. I almost just walked away right then and there, but I knew, for sure than, that she would have taken it as completely the right thing to do. I think getting after her the second she got up was better than doing nothing at all, IMHO. I appreciate the advice though from everyone. 

RiderGirl23: Thanks for telling me that you think I did the right thing here! I also think it wasn't too bad.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

When I have a horse begin to roll with me, I will either a) whop them on the *** with the bridle reins or b) stick them with a spur. *gasp* I know, but I will not get off of them and I will MAKE them get centered back on their feet. Most horses will only do it once after realizing what a mistake it is. Frankly, if you had time to realize what she was doing and get out of the way, then you had time to reprimand her before she ever got all the way down. By standing by and allowing her to finish rolling, you were telling her "Okay, just whatever you want. We'll continue when you are done, what I want doesn't matter." Even if she did get all the way down and you were off, you should have been getting her butt back on her feet immediately, and not the nice way either.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Ditto. I give a tug on one rein to get the head up and dig a spur in. I can't stand a horse who tries to roll - However I have only ever had horses try it in a dam! No way is my good saddle getting wet!


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## PechosGoldenChance (Aug 23, 2009)

Haha, yea I'm glad I didn't have my saddle on or else I would have been ****ed if it got messed up. I think I would be more mad at myself than anything for letting her do it. I think if I had a saddle on her, I probably would have tried to get her up ASAP, but oh well. Next time I'll get her!


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

PechosGoldenChance said:


> Honestly, the reason I didn't do anything, was because I couldn't! I was sooooo shocked that she did that, I just stood there in awe, pretty much. Normally, I think I can be a little TOO hard on them sometimes, but this time, wasn't because I was trying to be nice, I was simply just shocked. Next time, I will make sure she doesn't go down, and if she does, than I won't be as shocked and I guarantee you, I will get after her.
> 
> JustDressageIt: You have a good point. Yet, I have seen the method done before many times, which is why I did it. Like I said, granted I probably should have done something whilst she was in action, but I just couldn't due to shock, and disappointment. I almost just walked away right then and there, but I knew, for sure than, that she would have taken it as completely the right thing to do. I think getting after her the second she got up was better than doing nothing at all, IMHO. I appreciate the advice though from everyone.
> 
> RiderGirl23: Thanks for telling me that you think I did the right thing here! I also think it wasn't too bad.


I'm very confused... the first two paragraphs you say that you were disappointed and know you didn't react properly, then in the last reply you say that you did the right thing. 

Whenever you interact with your horse, you are teaching it, even if you aren't consciously thinking about it. By your admission above, (I think?) you know you didn't react properly. I hope you realize what you did wrong, and why, and will react differently next time. I hope my analogy helped you understand horse psychology.
With horses, you have to react QUICK. A few seconds pass, and it's too late to do anything. Again, your horse associated punishment (being run around) with getting up and standing still while you took the reins off. 
If a horse is trying to roll, the correct response is to get after them as soon as possible.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

You can predict where your horse will try it. Usually in soft sand, snow or water.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I greatly enjoy how we live in a day and age where, when everyone else seems to be the problem, the person never bothers looking at the common denominator. :lol:

Great training advice though. Tomorrow I think I'll go throw a bag at Jynxy's hocks so she can kick me in the knee and I can arrest her for being a bad pony. That should teach her not to be so naughty.


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## emilyanne (Feb 24, 2010)

In my opinion you enjoy riding so your horse should be allowd to enjoy them selves too so if they want to role let them do it before you ride because its a natural thing for a horse to want to do. You get alot out of riding, so your horse should get better than a spur in the ribs.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

emilyanne said:


> In my opinion you enjoy riding so your horse should be allowd to enjoy them selves too so if they want to role let them do it before you ride because its a natural thing for a horse to want to do. You get alot out of riding, so your horse should get better than a spur in the ribs.


I have a feeling I would never enjoy being around your horse.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> In my opinion you enjoy riding so your horse should be allowd to enjoy them selves too so if they want to role let them do it before you ride because its a natural thing for a horse to want to do. You get alot out of riding, so your horse should get better than a spur in the ribs.


My horse can roll to his hearts content for about 23 hours every day. I expect him to show me the common courtesy of not attempting it while I am nearby and could get injured.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Emily, yes, my horses are my friends and I do get a lot out of riding them. However, that does not give them the right to misbehave, and rolling while you are riding is flat out misbehavior. That's like saying that my horse bit the crap out of me, but it's okay because he's my friend and "he woves me". Most horses don't want to roll before a ride as they feel no need to, they are not hot and itchy yet. And I don't know about you, but I can't get my horses to roll on cue. My horses are my friends, but they are also a tool for work. They know that they can roll as much as they want when we get home and I turn them loose. If their back itches before then, they are more than welcome to do a full body shake almost any time they feel like it.


Not only is it possible they damage whatever tack you have on them, it is dangerous for them and for you. As a previous poster said, you could have your leg broken if you didn't get out of the way quick enough. If they are wearing a saddle, you could end up with a broken tree, or worse, a horse with an injured back. They could end up deciding to roll in the middle of a competition or show, or even worse, in my case, when you have a mad cow on the end of a rope.


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## emilyanne (Feb 24, 2010)

If they dont want to before then thats fair but my horse just likes the ground he doesnt care when he does it. I don't have those problems as i ride bare back and in a halter and he is the kind of horse that wont do it untill you get out of the way. Sorry no effence was intended.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

For your kind of riding, that probably works for you. But those of us who like to compete or work on our horses, it isn't practical, it is disrespectful, and it is dangerous.


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## emilyanne (Feb 24, 2010)

What do you mean for my kind of riding i do ride in a saddle and bitless just not while im goofing off he never offers stuff like that while we are jumping and stuff.


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## emilyanne (Feb 24, 2010)

Im sorry if any one took effence to my comment and my horse is well behaved when we are being serious we just have lots of goof off days.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

wild_spot said:


> My horse can roll to his hearts content for about 23 hours every day. I expect him to show me the common courtesy of not attempting it while I am nearby and could get injured.


This. I completely agree. 
When my horse is 'in work' with me (from the moment I walk up to him and put his halter on to the moment I either CONDONE him rolling, or I let him loose in his pasture) he's not allowed to endanger me whatsoever - that includes rolling.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

^ Ditto - no unsafe behaviour no matter what.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I think everyone gets rolled with at least once in their riding career. 

My very first horse rolled with me out on the trail. I saw the warning signs, we were in a sandy area and he put his head down and started to paw. I thought "cute, he's thinking about rolling" and then "bam," he was down before I could stop him. I guess I thought I could catch him before he went down, but it happened so quick!

So I swung my leg over got off and yelled at him to get up and pulled on the reins, no response, just a horse enjoying his moment in the sand! So I started kicking him in the shoulder because I didn't want my saddle to get ruined, and that got his attention and got him up before he rolled onto my saddle.

Then, a friend who I ride with did practically the same thing. She was on her 3 year old, we were in a sandy wash, he put his head down, she knew he was thinking of rolling and then "bam" he was down in the sand and dirt. We still get a good laugh out of it! 

I think the first time you figure it's cute and you can catch them before they actually drop, and then it all happens quicker than you expect. :lol:


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

There is an enormous difference between getting caught off guard and allowing it to happen. I've gotten caught twice in 30 years, once in water and once on sand. Both times the horse went down but I stopped him from rolling.

The issue is allowing the horse to do it while mounted then punishing him for it. When is that ever permissible?


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

wild_spot said:


> My horse can roll to his hearts content for about 23 hours every day. I expect him to show me the common courtesy of not attempting it while I am nearby and could get injured.


That!

Having to behave and do what is asked of them for an hour a day (or several hours a day even) is no different than us having to behave a certain way at work or school.


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## PechosGoldenChance (Aug 23, 2009)

Wild Spot is correct! lol


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## Rule of Reason (Feb 11, 2010)

PechosGoldenChance said:


> Horselove4ever: Once again, the comment you made about me making simple spelling mistake is not kool. Too childish dude, seriously. A spelling mistake!? Come on...ok here...I'm sorry, but that has nothing what so ever to do with this thread. Unless you have anything productive to say, don't say anything at all, or you will be ignored. Thanks!
> 
> Honestly, the reason I didn't do anything, was because I couldn't! I was sooooo shocked that she did that, I just stood there in awe, pretty much. Normally, I think I can be a little TOO hard on them sometimes, but this time, wasn't because I was trying to be nice, I was simply just shocked. Next time, I will make sure she doesn't go down, and if she does, than I won't be as shocked and I guarantee you, I will get after her.
> 
> ...


If you were too surprised to react right away, I can understand that, it happens. But in that case, I think it would have made more sense to the horse if you'd punished her WHILE she was down. Live and learn.

And like it or not, people do judge other people on their spelling. Sometimes a simple spelling mistake makes it hard to figure out what you're trying to say. Is it fair? Maybe not, but it's life.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

iridehorses said:


> There is an enormous difference between getting caught off guard and allowing it to happen. I've gotten caught twice in 30 years, once in water and once on sand. Both times the horse went down but I stopped him from rolling.
> 
> The issue is allowing the horse to do it while mounted then punishing him for it. When is that ever permissible?


Completely agree.
I got caught off guard once. I was sitting on my horse talking to a buddy, and all of a sudden I was on the ground yelling at the horse to get up. I didn't have to get physical, he knew he was in trouble. I was scared poopless that he had damaged my saddle - thank God he had only laid on his side, and hadn't rolled by the time I could get him up. 
Setting a horse up to "test" whether or not they'll go down is a bad idea - one may think they can stop it in time, but that's usually not the case; usually, as trailhorse said, it happens so fast that we can't react and stop the horse. As iride said, where's the sense in punishing a horse for doing something that YOU allowed in the first place? Kind of like asking a kid if he wants a candy bar, and yelling at him if he takes a bite.


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## PechosGoldenChance (Aug 23, 2009)

Rule of reason: Now, how can I argue with that? lol Incase you're confused on what I mean, I mean, basically you're right. Yet, I think she did it just to spite me, but oh well, no biggie 

JustDressageIt: I see what you mean. I wish I still talked to my last instructor though because they are the one who taught me that method. And I also know what you mean about not having enough time to react and then the next thing you know, your on the ground, kinda sucks. I was merely, just sitting there enjoying the sun, that we havn't freakin had all winter, than boom, there we were, on the ground.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I remember the first time a horse (pony) rolled with me on him. Everyone was saying, "get off him Jennifer" and I was just sitting there... He was pawing and then he just gently layed down. I was still sitting there... (I was very beginner). Finally I got off him, still not fully grasping the dangerousness of the situation. This was a pony that had been allowed to roll. He was a lesson pony and it became a very bad habit. With a young rider on him, it was out right dangerous. That is the point people are trying to get across.

Asking WHY the horse rolled is a good question because there could have been a good reason. The fact of the matter is, we don't know because we weren't there..... But I think you are probably right in your assessment... she was being naughty....


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## PechosGoldenChance (Aug 23, 2009)

Yea, I'm thinking she was being naughty, along with possibly being itchy since she and the others are now shedding like crazy! Either way, I know that if it does happen again, I now know how I'm going to go about handling it


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

Pecos, Your horse weighs approximately half a tonne body weight. If it ever succeeds in rolling on you, the effect will be similar to that if you were to lay under the wheel of your car. You will be crushed. It is an act of gross disobedience. There is no excuse for it. It is intolerable. It is an act of lawlessness on the part of the horse.

Think about it.


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## PechosGoldenChance (Aug 23, 2009)

Barry: The people and I in this thread have already discussed this part of the issue. I'm certainly not dumb enough to think it's ok, or not dangerous. And by the way, it would not be similar as having the wheel of a car on my because I have an F250 diesel...wayyyy more heavy. Other than that, I obviously see your point, but as stated...we've already discussed the saftey hazards of this, and it is only common sense to know how dangerous it is. If I didn't have common sense, I probably would have let her roll right on me. Think about it!


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## Walkamile (Dec 29, 2008)

While we can speculate on why a horse might roll or try to when under saddle, bottom line, it doesn't really matter. Simply not allowed. When I saddle up (actually even before saddling) my horses know that it's business. All opinions on their part are not to be aired. Of course I am responsible to make sure that there are no physical issues with equip. fit ect... 

Glad to see that you are fine PGC, and also very refreshing to hear that someone is open to other ways to handle a situation. Since you've been given very good advice, I won't add, just wanted to complement you on your open mind. I also like to hear of different ways to handle a situation, and then make up my own mind on the best way to do something.


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## PechosGoldenChance (Aug 23, 2009)

WalkaMile: Thank you! I am always open to different way to handle a situation. The thing that causes problems on these threads are the silly little comments left behind that have no purpose in the discussion what so ever. 

Please, if you have any other advice, don't hesitate to tell me. I'm an open book my dear!


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

Pechos
I owned a horse who rolled when saddled with a rider aboard. He had learned the evasion in a trail riding centre. 
Subsequently he learned:
Nappiness - extreme reluctance to leave the stable yard.
to baulk ( refuse to move), 
whirl (spin round 180 degrees)
Whirl and bolt (spin and take off at the gallop)
Canter to the right with his head turned to the left.
Run down steep slopes
Reach down to the ground to loosen the rider’s hold on the reins, then reach up with nose to the sky to 
take a longer length of rein, then reach down again to the ground to tear the reins out of the rider’s hands and to unbalance the rider , then he would take off.
He eventually learned to rear.

He was ridden in a Waterford bit which he could ignore if he wanted to.
At 15h1 he weighed about 600 kilos with a big butt and a broad flat back. 
He feared nothing manmade but he was frightened of donkeys and terrified of goats.

To be fair to him he never struck, double barrelled or bit but he would pin you to the wall if you gave him the chance.

I spoke with lots of professionals about him and received heaps of well meaning advice. I tried everything. One day an old professional horseman said to me - “He’s lawless, you will never win with that horse. Why keep him? He might kill you”. A few months later he nearly did and I wound up in hospital. At the same time he also tore a check ligament and it was the beginning of the end for him.

Because he was becoming a danger to the local community I passed him back to the one woman who had known him for much of his life. He loved her. She put him down 6 months later.

If you read the old turn of the century horsemaster books you’ll read that some horses were classified as “lawless” - they did not respect humans and from time to time they fought with them. If you own one of those horses these days the risk is to those about you as much as yourself.

If my boy got into “super hype mood , say as a result of hunting fever at a fun ride, he became uncontrollable - I had to withdraw him twice until we stopped entering at all.

I was told that once a horse learns a trick by which he feels he can win against his rider, he will try again and again whenever he feels aggrieved. Rolling can be an early sign of lawlessness, because I am sure the horse knows it risks its spine if it is fitted with an english cut saddle.

Tread carefully with that horse of yours.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

Honestly, I don't think the OP had time to react like they usually would. I'm sure the OP will be looking out for signs of rolling from now on. emilyanne, I do not agree with your reply. Saddles are exspensive, riders are irraplacable, horses are big. I think that is enough said on your reply, honestly I really hope you do not own a horse because if you do, do you let your horse buck because it enjoys itself?


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## HorseLove4ever (Apr 21, 2009)

re-read my post again, i have a point.


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## PechosGoldenChance (Aug 23, 2009)

Barry: I have to say, I enjoyed your mini novel there!  Although I think you might want to check on the fact that a horse rolling on you is equal to that of a vehicle. Even a small car, such as my old one which was a honda accord weights, on average, 3000lbs. If a horse weighs that much, I don't think I have any business riding it haha. Trucks...yea, weight much more. My diesel, roughly 8000lbs. A normal gas truck (I'm talking large ones here) roughly 7000lbsl. You just can't really compare those being you to a horse rolling on you. Not trying to be sarcastic here, just trying to help you understand the large weight differences. However, you are right, those horses can do some damage.

Chinga:Yes, you are right. I didn't have ANY time to react. I was zoning out into the beautiful sunlight and there we were, 'cuddling' on the ground lol. I do know what I will do again though for sure.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

^ i though you said you were testing her to see if she would roll ?


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

dressagebelle said:


> With a person, arresting them after the fact, no matter how after that may be, the person remembers exactly what they did wrong, and why they are being punished, but a horse thinks differently.


That's not even true for (many/most) humans. Lots of people will just effectively shrug and say "That was a long time ago, why are you making a fuss about it now?"

Also, the problem with horses (and animals in general) is not so much that they "live in the moment" (since after all they do remember things and learn from experience), it's that you can't tell them which of their past actions you're punishing them for. It'd be just the same if you spanked your kid, but didn't tell him/her what for. Or, to use the "arrested" metaphor, if some cops stopped you and threw you in jail, without bothering to tell you why. The only lesson you'd learn from that is that cops aren't to be trusted


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## PechosGoldenChance (Aug 23, 2009)

Gypsy: Yea, I thought I was lol. But that also, coincides with her being stupid and disrespectful. Whether or not she hadn't been out for a long time, I know it is not an excuse. 

James: I see your point!! I like how you explained that a lot. Yea, I'm going to go about a different way to handle it the next time it happens, I promise!  Yet, I doubt it will happen again, this was the first time she had ever done anything like that. I honestly think she was just extremely itchy and didn't care, yet as I told gypsy, that's not an excuse.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

trailhorserider said:


> I think everyone gets rolled with at least once in their riding career.
> 
> So I swung my leg over got off and yelled at him to get up and pulled on the reins, no response, just a horse enjoying his moment in the sand! So I started kicking him in the shoulder because I didn't want my saddle to get ruined, and that got his attention and got him up before he rolled onto my saddle.


I think you responded very well to that situation. I agree that almost everyone will get caught off guard, it is how you respond in that situation that dictates how your horse will act in the future. Because I never allow my horses to roll until they are turned loose, I can comfortably drop their bridle and leave them unattended in a pen with the saddle still on and not worry. Had to do that yesterday while working cattle. We were trying to pen some cows that were on the fight and then move them to another pasture so when we would leave with one load of cows, we would take the bridles off the horses and turn them loose to graze in another pen. 

Greenies especially will try to lay down with you simply cause they don't know any better but I have found that the best way to deal with it is get them moving at the first sign of laying down (sniffing the ground and pawing). After getting to trot a couple more miles, they are usually pretty content to stand still when you stop. LOL.


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## ptvintage (Feb 12, 2010)

I agree, they can catch you off guard!

My horse never rolled with me on her, but one time I was giving her a bath and I turned my back for a moment to get the scraper or something and when I turned back around she was down on the ground rolling!

It was just startling then...but I did think about how bad it could have been if she had been tied to something instead of being ground tied like she was. She never did it again though, but she was the sort of horse that every time I took off her halter after riding, she was down rolling in 30 seconds.


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## EveningShadows (May 18, 2009)

smrobs said:


> When I have a horse begin to roll with me, I will either a) whop them on the *** with the bridle reins or b) stick them with a spur. *gasp* I know, but I will not get off of them and I will MAKE them get centered back on their feet. Most horses will only do it once after realizing what a mistake it is. Frankly, if you had time to realize what she was doing and get out of the way, then you had time to reprimand her before she ever got all the way down. By standing by and allowing her to finish rolling, you were telling her "Okay, just whatever you want. We'll continue when you are done, what I want doesn't matter." Even if she did get all the way down and you were off, you should have been getting her butt back on her feet immediately, and not the nice way either.



I like your way of thinking. I'm sorry, but NO 1200lbs animal is going to roll on me...EVER. It's just one of those things that aren't acceptable, same as biting, kicking, and striking. I don't do those things to my horse, they shouldn't try to do them to me. 

And the idea that you stayed "in shock" while she got down, rolled til she wasn't itchy, and got up just makes me laugh. My horses go down and have a good couple minute roll...you're telling us you were so astounded by her actually making good on her warning to roll (that you yourself told us you were testing her for) that you couldn't react?! PFFFT. And yes, once she's up and shakes the dust off, you're WAY too late to reprimand and your "arresting" became an unjust punishment.

I find it funny you're asking this horrible site for advise if you dislike it so much...your original question was why did she roll? Because she was itchy, has NO respect for you on her, and apparently knew you wouldn't do anything about it. The fact that you call the HORSE stupid for this action...I'm not even going to touch on that.


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## welshies rule (Feb 7, 2010)

well J once lay down with me and my response was to jump off while telling him no! then gave him a tug on the rein told him to get up and made the monkey do some **** work. Its never happened since!


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## SeWHC (Jul 1, 2009)

PechosGoldenChance said:


> Horselove4ever:
> 
> Gypsy: I feel bad for the lady who broke her leg. However, I'm still a young woman who works out everyday, and I also run, I'm pretty 'on-top' of things, and I'm pretty quick to come to my whits. I jump off faster than you can blink your eyes lol. I'm not trying to be a smart *** at all, I swear!



When I was 18 and in excellent shape, I was training a horse on the trail, working at a very forward trot on a hot day. We hit a sandy patch about 5 miles in. We literally went from trotting to the horse on top of me snapping my knee backwards in about 1 second. He HIT the ground, and my knee. 

I cracked my knee cap, and tore pretty much everything there is to tear in a knee. It was just excruciating pain. 

I was stuck by myself 5 miles in with a crushed knee that I couldn't stand on. I had to somehow get back on the horse-- do you stand on the bad knee, or do you try and hoist yourself up with the bad knee? It was impossible. And then, riding out on intense trails on a horse you don't trust and a constantly swelling knee? I almost passed out. 

As I said, I was in excellent shape, and I had been on those trails alone for miles and miles. These are reasons you never ride without a cell phone, without a friend, and why you never ever allow a horse to roll while you are on its back.


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## roro (Aug 14, 2009)

You should turn your horse out in a sandier area (in my experiences horses tend to prefer their rolling spots a little dusty) so she can roll when you aren't on her. This would make her less likely to roll under saddle, unless it's a trying-to-get-you-off roll. Anyways, rolling is a dangerous behavior. You may not have gotten hurt, but you could next time. Many serious horse-related injuries are not caused by the fall, but by a horse's weight coming on top of the rider. Catch her before she goes down, when she is starting to slow down and hesitate. Then get loud, get her to leg yield, tap her with a whip, just keep her moving until she isn't going to go down on you.


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## PechosGoldenChance (Aug 23, 2009)

EveningShadows: You are a funny one, I'll tell ya!


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## heyycutter (Sep 26, 2009)

to me, rolling is unacceptable. they can roll all they want when their turned out, but i demand respect when im working with them.
cutter tried rolling once while he had a saddle on. i was holding him while he was tacked up, he layed down, and i took my whip and whacked his a** hard and he stood up and hasnt tried since.

i love my horse, and he loves me. im not abusive, so i hope no body gets on me for hitting him. but im not going to lie, when he does something that deserves a good whack, he gets a good whack. and he is one of the most respectful horses ive ever worked with.


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