# How do I earn my horses respect?



## Erfellie (Oct 18, 2011)

Thanks for reading.. hopefully I can get some helpful responses..
A quick bit about us to help you understand more...
I am a first time horse owner, I have had DeeDee for 5 years and even though she is the most gentle natured horse on the face of the planet she does not respect me like she should. Lately the problem I am having is that when we go to the roundpen to lunge she will sometimes do it, sometimes not. More often not these days. Her feet are fine and she is not injured so the only reason I can think of is a lack of respect for me. I do not whip my horse and will not so please dont suggest it. 

Typical lunge for us consists of me in the middle, with a lunge whip, I stare at her shoulder blades (careful not to step in front of her drive line or behind) and point in the direction I want her to go, click my tongue, and hold the whip facing her hip and switch it a little and then she goes. 

Recently I do it and she stands still and stares at me. I have tried whipping the ground right next to her feet, and i have tried running towards her hips while whipping the ground and clicking and her front feet stay in the same spot and she just turns her rear end in circles and then we end up in a very comical/frustrating situation where Im the horse running circles and shes telling me what to do from the middle. 

What am I doing wrong? I know to gain a horses respect you have to move their feet but I am struggling with this now. Any suggestions would be great, thank you


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

can't really help since one of my geldings is doing the same thing  would love to know what responses you get  good luck


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## dee (Jul 30, 2009)

I'm not going to be a lot of help, either. My Dancer had a lot of issues when I first got her two years ago - most dealing with ground manners - or a lack thereof. I was able to get her to "behave" because I just don't put up with nonsense. After two months, she was an angel on the ground.

Started lunging her about a year ago - didn't have a round pen at that time. Didn't even know if she _could_ be lunged - I never messed with lunging horses before - the ones I had didn't need it, and I didn't know if Dancer had ever been taught to lunge. Seems she knew more than I did about it, so I got really lucky.

However, she's a mare, and has her days of "I don't wanna!" On those days, I do have to be a bit more assertive. Upon occasion I've even had to resort to a little smack on the butt with my lunge whip to let her know I mean business. I'm not "whipping" her, per se, just a smack - doesn't even have to be hard. She gets the message, and after a little hissy fit, she settles down.

Don't be afraid to get as physical as you need to with your horse. I'm not advocating abuse, but a well timed smack can do a world of good. You really need to get your horse to focus on you and move her feet. If the horse won't move when you run at her, then get her to move some other way.

I am assuming, of course, that you are dealing with an attitude problem, and not a physical one...


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## Drifting (Oct 26, 2011)

If it was me, I would try to get her moving in a different direction if she wasn't going forward. I'd get her to back up and keep her backing up for a few strides, then try to get her going forward again. If that didn't work, i'd back her up in a circle around the round pen, maybe get her to side pass on the ground, get her feet moving and keep them moving in any direction, until when you ask her to go forward she does it.


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## Drifting (Oct 26, 2011)

Then again, if that didn't work I'd scratch my head and ask someone else.


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## gigem88 (May 10, 2011)

Rent/buy DVD's of either Clinton Anderson (gaining respect series) or of Buck Brannamen. Both are excellent instructors.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I was just watching a friend have a similar issue as this yesterday, only in her case, the horse was not only refusing to move, but was "air biting" toward the stick that she was circling in the air.

Your horse will respect you when she knows that you mean what you say and say what you mean. So, if you ask her to move her shoulder away from you, then you durn well better get that reaction. The longer you stay in that place of you just swinging your stick and her just ignoring, the more it will eventually take to move her. You are building dullness into your horse, which is the exact opposite of what round penning or lunging should be about;

Think of it like this:
when you apply pressure to the horse you, the horse has a place where he will react to that pressure, by moving away from it. Every horse has a different " break point" let's call it. You will start applying pressure very lightly and increase this until you reach his break point, he gives and then you take all pressure off instantly. Such is the fundamentals of training. Your goal is to move that break point further and furthe down the scale. Scale?

I mean, you've heard of "ask, tell, demand" right? It means first you ask nicely, then you tell firmly , then you demand! So, if "ask" is a 1 on the scale of 1 to 10 in terms of pressure, then 'tell" is not one increment above "ask" but rather maybe 3. So "tell" might be a 4. Then if your horse is still not responsive, either willfully blowing you off, or asleep at the wheel or maybe not understanding what's going on, then you have to go to "demand!" Demand is not one increment up from "tell" . It's number 10!. So, your increase in pressure is not a linear increase, it is exponential.

Once your horse knows that you will go to 10 if necessary, she will respond at 4 or less. That is moving her break point down the scale and building responsiveness into her, rather than dullness.

In your case, your horse knows what the worst you will dish out is, and she knows it's surviveable, so she knows she need not do anything. You need to go in with a "this is a whole new ballgame" attitude. think; I am going to move you around here and you will move promptly and correctly and as soon as you do, we are done. But, make no mistake, you WILL move, now!"

If you think this, and if you are willing to do what it takes, you will get your horses attention, and thus more respect becaue you are willing to do what you say you will do. That earns a horse's respect.

And yes, you may need to strike her with the whip. Make it memorable so you won't ever have to do it again.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

If she really doesn't need round pen work, then why do it? She's likely quite bored with it and is shutting down. Why not set up an obstacle course and work her over, under and thro that instead to help keep her mentally fresh.


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## Silver Wings (Jan 29, 2011)

Agreeing with Saddlebag!

This is maybe a bit off-topic, but I just came to think of when I tried to lunge Silver (my mare) a couple of years ago.
She cantered a few rounds, then she became bored with it and just wanted to come in to the middle and have a cosy time instead 
At last I had to give up the lunging, and just pet her.
Haven't tried after that, I'm just riding her or working on the ground in other ways.
Just an incident!


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## Hlover (Apr 17, 2011)

I agree with both saddlebags and tinyliny. There's no point in doing something your horse doesn't need, but not having your horses respect, and your horse knowing he can just stand there when you are asking him to do something is unacceptable. This will eventually lead to him standing there and ignoring your aids in the saddle. My horse has done this before, and really the point of the setting back is the not moving. So if anything make your horse MOVE HIS FEET. back up, do laterals, and eventually get him moving forward, and away from you. Your horse should know to stay out of your space if he respects you, and this is very important. And with the whole hitting your horse thing, they have a thick skin, and you don't need to actually whip your horse, but you can use a lead rope, or something that will make him want to move away from it (i've used a longe whip with a brightly colored piece of fabric, or a plastic bag attached to it, because they move away from something weird like that and you don't need to hit them with anything) So hope those are some helpful ideas GOOD LUCK


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## MNCOWGIRL (Oct 24, 2011)

Have you tried bribing her? Lol i know it sounds silly but sometimes a horse may just get fed up with the same old stuff day in and day out. Try changing it up a bit with a new rutine.


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## Erfellie (Oct 18, 2011)

*Thanks!*

Thank you to everyone who has responded. Maybe I should try a small whack if all the other suggestions dont work, I just dont like the idea of it but I suppose that is the last thing she would ever expect from me so maybe that is what it is gonna take to get her attention. We dont lunge very often so I dont think it is boredom of the round pen (maybe it is!) but lately she hasnt been respecting me in the saddle and I have had 2 pretty serious accidents in the last 6 months because of it. I have read that if it is a lack of respect, to start from the ground up to gain it so thats why I am trying lunging again. I will not tolerate one more of her "accidents" because it might be a fatal one (on my part). I would love to buy Clinton Andersons fundamentals kit but I checked online about a week ago and discovered that it is $599!!!! yeah... thats not an option right now... So I have been asking around if any friends have it... might have located one. Thanks again for all the suggestions, I certainly appreciate it.


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

I'm not saying whack your horse, but pretty much however hard you hit her would never be as hard as another horses kick. If you say move away from you she should move, if a horse said that to her she would. By stopping your aids before she moves you are training to stand still. 

I like doing work on a 12ft rope. Getting horses moving their hind, their front, to each side, and back and forward. Like others have mentioned, sometimes when a horse is reluctant to move one way moving another direction helps that. With my old horse, whenever he wasn't doing what I asked or was being generally rude I'd send him backwards, and then forwards, and then around. I don't know why but going backwards has always worked better for me than going forward as far as respect/attention goes.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Erfellie said:


> Thank you to everyone who has responded. Maybe I should try a small whack if all the other suggestions dont work, I just dont like the idea of it but I suppose that is the last thing she would ever expect from me so maybe that is what it is gonna take to get her attention. We dont lunge very often so I dont think it is boredom of the round pen (maybe it is!) but lately she hasnt been respecting me in the saddle and I have had 2 pretty serious accidents in the last 6 months because of it. I have read that if it is a lack of respect, to start from the ground up to gain it so thats why I am trying lunging again. I will not tolerate one more of her "accidents" because it might be a fatal one (on my part). I would love to buy Clinton Andersons fundamentals kit but I checked online about a week ago and discovered that it is $599!!!! yeah... thats not an option right now... So I have been asking around if any friends have it... might have located one. Thanks again for all the suggestions, I certainly appreciate it.


You have gotten some excellent advise here. HOWEVER-if you go at it with the thought of "prehaps I could give her a small smack..." You will never-ever correct the issue. As was said-do it once and make it count. You will most likely have to do it rarely if ever again. If you "smack her lightly" and tentatively she knows that and nothing changes. She still has your number. 

You have bee afraid to hurt little poopsie for 5 years now. This will not go away, only get worse. 

You can get CA videos on Ebay for around $30 as I recall. There are some videos you may be able to see on youtube or rent online. 

One thing is for sure-until you decide to use the pressure necessary to MAKE her do it, (I am NOT telling you to whip her) she will continue to stand there, stare at you thinking "nanny nanny booboo....you can't make me!":wink:

Ask, tell DEMAND. works every time as long as you really DEMAND it!


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## horsemadgirl (Aug 23, 2011)

When it comes more to discipline and her learning from you quickly (this will also mean her knowing you mean business.) When she does something wrong (no matter how long it takes) go back and do it again, and again, and again..


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

horsemadgirl said:


> When it comes more to discipline and her learning from you quickly (this will also mean her knowing you mean business.) When she does something wrong (no matter how long it takes) go back and do it again, and again, and again..


 
BUT-as soon as she gets it right-QUIT~!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

The example I raised earlier in this thread was of a friend of mine who IS working with a Clinton Anderson trainer, believe it or not. Just haveing a system to follow doesn't mean that you will use it correctly. If you have not INTENTION in what you ask a horse to do, the horse knows this and he operates on your intention, not whether you have this dvd or that stick or follow any particular trainer. If you still have the intention that says, "maybe I'll have to smack her, but just once" then your intention is not, "move forward, now!" Horses are amazing in their capacity to judge how strong is your committment or intention. They are much bothered when a person's actions don't match the intention. (i. e. you swing the whip, but you have no real coviction that you WILL get the desired result).

This horse in my example is also starting to act up more and more under saddle and making the rider more and more uncomfortable around it on the ground . It's a vicious cycle, because now he knows that he will not be worked. He snaps at them, even makes small, petty strikes with his front legs and they continue to swing the stick! Why I'd lay a whip on him so fast if he struck out at me with his front legs or bit the air at me. And the longer they do this, the more ingrained it gets.

I am not about hitting horses, and I agree that round penning incessantly causes boredom and can be purposeless. But it may also really show you the basis of your horses attitude toward you, which in this case sounds kind of like,
"Meh, she's ok when she pets and feeds me. Whatever "


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

There is a saying about training horses. "Use as little pressure as possible but as much as necessary." Unless you are willing to use as much as necessary, that being giving your horse a whack when needed, he will learn you don't mean what you ask him or him not respecting you. You need to convince him you mean business to get his respect.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Erfellie (Oct 18, 2011)

WoW thats a lot of advise, thank you again to all of you who offered me your helpful suggestions. I think the general consensus is is that I am a big pansy and let my horse walk all over me... and thats pretty much right. I will give these techniques a try and let you all know how it went  Wish me luck!


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## allisonjoy (Oct 8, 2011)

i have a similar problem with my 4yo mare. she doesnt seem to see me as the alpha like the other 2 horses do. she will do what i ask her, but without looking at me. is there any exercises, other than correcting her when she's wrong, that will help me establish being the alpha with her?

and ive heard different things but is it a horrible thing to let a horse rub its head against you? && what does this mean?


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## Erfellie (Oct 18, 2011)

As far as the head rubbing goes, I was told my one person that its a sign of disrespect and not to let them do it, another told me that it is a sign of affection (like grooming) between horses and not a disrespectful thing, just a mutual respect. The main reason why I have been told that it should not be allowed is because if you could possibly be injured if the horse does it at the wrong time. 

A few years back I was trail riding and I was out on a very steep mountainside and did not feel safe riding it so I got off my horse and while I was talking with my friend about why I didnt want to do the trail, he rubbed his head on my back and shoved me a bit, I was able to catch myself but I realized how bad that COULD have been, a little harder of a nudge and I would have been falling down that mountainside. 

So I tried all the techniques suggested for lungeing and nothing worked. It was rather frustrating. I did try giving her a good solid whack, no response, I tried repeatedly tapping her hip bone with the whip, no response, I tried putting the lead rope on her and moving her in other directions (she would walk in that direction but that was it). I feel at a loss as to what else I could do. I will just have to keep trying at it I suppose. Thanks again, everyone!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Maybe you don't need to round pen. If your horse is behaving well under saddle and doing what you ask, when you ask, then why bother? 
If you do want to lunge or round pen and she wont move, try tying a plastic bag on the end of a whip. moveing that around with a real snap to it, I bet she'll leap out of her skin at first. That'll wake her up.

It is desireable to have the horse look at you when you are working with them, and it's not always easy to get that. But its more than I can really explain in this box here. 

As for rubbing, I think if you invite it, it's ok but if they do it uninvited, cut it off. I think that's pretty wishy washy, I know. I really shouldn't let him do it at all, but Mac is pretty nice about it.


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## Courtney (May 20, 2011)

Respect is a big thing in the horse world. Right now, your mare does not see you as the dominant 'lead mare' and to be completely honest, she doesn't seem to really trust your judgment too much. By turning toward you when you ask her to move away, she's telling you that she doesn't agree with your decision. By babying her through it, you're reinforcing the idea that you don't trust your own judgment. To her, that's a loud and clear signal that she needs to step up and be the leader because you're not.

If this was my horse, I'd take her to the round pen and just send her around in circles. As long as she's moving away from me in the direction I send her, I don't care how fast she goes (as long as it's faster than a lazy jog) or how big the circles are. Stay out of kicking range and keep sending her in circles. I'd keep her going until she begins to show signs of submission - drooped ears, licking lips, chewing, bowed neck. I'd keep her going until she focuses an ear on me and continues the signs of submission. At that point, I'd take the pressure off and turn my body 45 degrees from her. If she comes up to you and puts her muzzle by your shoulder, she is accepting that you are the leader and offering you the dominant status. Walk away from her. If she follows, that's it. If she wanders away, push her out and make her work again. Eventually, she will follow you all over the pen, stop when you stop and turn when you stop. That's when you can really begin fixing your relationship and working as a team.

Smacking her will not hurt her feelings, I promise. In a herd environment, horses routinely lay their ears back, nip and kick. When you smack her, she equates it to a quick nip or kick and thinks, "hey... I guess that wasn't an appropriate thing to do!" You don't have to flog her with the whip or beat her, but a quick smack on the rump or shoulder will work wonders. She might look at you like you're the worst thing on the face of the earth, but rest assured that she's just playing you to see what she can get away with.

I like to take every horse I work with to the round pen and give them a quick session. It makes training so much easier when they respect you as the leader and understand that you are the alpha. Having a steady leader makes a horse feel safe. If they recognize you as the leader, they will be calmer and more willing to work with you because they feel confident that you will keep them safe.


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## Mike Zimmerman (Oct 30, 2011)

I just skimmed some of the responses and I didn't see what I'm about to say, but if I missed somebody else who already said it sorry. 

You need to rethink how you are asking the horse to go. You have the first part right, point in the direction you want the horse to go. I like to say "open the door". But your focus is on the hind quarter with your lunge whip, and what she is doing is yielding the hind just like you're asking her to do. Remember a horse drives forward from anywhere behind their eye, they drive back from in front of the eye, and away directly at the eye. I would drive her from the girth, about where you'd have your leg when riding. If she's facing you drive the shoulder or neck. Don't be afraid to make contact but only after you open the door and ask first and she doesn't respond. Before you know it when you put your arm up she'll move right off.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Erfellie (Oct 18, 2011)

Thank you again for your helpful information. I used to be able to get the response out of her that I wanted every time we lunged, but not anymore, thats why I am so confused why all the sudden I am getting no reaction at all. It sounds like Courtney is explaing Monty Roberts technique for lungeing and that is exactly what I do with her and it has always worked great up until recently. She would follow me around like a puppy dog anywhere I go after lungeing and even now she still does follow me like that but the problem is, is that I cant get her to get away from me so I can lunge her. She has never kicked a day in her life so I dont worry about being outside kicking range but its good to be anyways I suppose. When I lunge her I stare at her drive line (her shoulder) like Clinton Anderson teaches and point the whip at her hip. I think tomorrow I will try the plastic bag and see how that goes. Thanks again


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## allisonjoy (Oct 8, 2011)

another thing that i was wondering is that my gelding and other mare seem to want to follow me and be with me, while my younger newest mare seems to rather do her own thing in the pasture. she's in a weird herd situation and i dont know if maybe that's affecting our communication and relationship in the pasture. the other two horses have made her isolate herself and will not let them near "their" herd. i also have 2 donkeys that also stick together. so she is somewhat of a loner by nature. you think that would make her crave my attention but it only seems as though she's affectionate sometimes. my gelding and other fiesty older mare do not want to share my attention with her so they repeatedly lunge at her and put their ears back if she trys to approach me. they form this sort of love bubble around their "mommy". is this why she's less affectionate with me even after i take her out of the herd and ride her?


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## Erfellie (Oct 18, 2011)

Thats interesting Allison... Ive seen it with other herds but they eventually will join together if they live together long enough so I dont know why your horses would do that. I guess you could look at the positive side of it if nothing else, at least (hopefully) your loner horse won't be a buddy sour pain in the bum like mine can be at times.


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

Your new horse is an outcast to the "herd". It happens anytime you introduce a new horse. They will usually accept her in time. 

It's not the same between you and her. You need to show her it's better to be with you than separate. Some call it join up. If she has no interest being next to you in a round pen, get her to move her feet but not just circling. Change her directions often. When she stops and looks at you, turn away or back away looking down. She will learn that paying attention to you is easier than having to work. She'll see you as a leader and want to be with you. If she doesn't feel you are a leader, she won't want anything to do with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## allisonjoy (Oct 8, 2011)

thanks a bunch!! && yeah Erfellie hopefully never! thats a big plus 'cause she never wants to go into the pastures she just wants to work with me outside! (; she likes the work i give her but and doesn't like anything to do with the herd! or me sometimes though /: 

the weird part of this situation is that my mare leaves for 6 months a year (to be a camp horse) and the herd between my youngest and the gelding was already formed. it seemed like as soon as she came around again, Star's former love,her feisty attitude and hatred for other mares made an IMMEDIATE change in the herd. my mare has not been accepted in the 4 months shes been back here and i don't see it happening in the near future either!


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## Erfellie (Oct 18, 2011)

I wish I had an indoor arena... today might be the last day I get to ride for awhile, darn rain! Hopefully we will have better luck today, Im gonna try the plastic bag technique.


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## northswedish (Nov 5, 2011)

I have no advice to add since it has been given my outlook on this is the same as in child rearing or dog training to become the person they trust and respect you have to be consistent and when they decide to see if they can make you change (time and other obligations or sometimes driving a car makes this darn near impossible at times)Also if you look at the way horses train each-other you will see the natural kicking and biting that is well timed and precise and does not lead to injury if the horses can move out of the way.I Am not smart so that I can talk like the horses talk to each-other before dealing out a kick or a bite however since the horse also has to get to know me and how I work since I can not become a horse one has to sit down and figure out what is reasonable what is fair warning what is crossing the line and be consistent then your training will be effective and you also must have a goal make it simple and make sure you have the time to do it right.You can dull a horses response to anything with time so spooking your horse into submission is just going to get you back to the same problem you have now down the line.I think we are physical creatures and I sure got my bumps and bruises learning in life so will a horse and believe it or not I do not think you can escape physical contact and correction with the horse or any other creature where how and when to use it is a personal freedom and preference also realize that wordings like sending energy down the line of a lead-rope is the same as when a different person says give it a pull.What I am trying to offer as advice is to have a plan so that you can be consistent is more important.
If it makes you feel better my current plan involves haltering my yearling in the field with out issues.Riding my older mare away from the yearling with out issues..Work in progress


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Do not let her rub on you. Horses will scratch each others withers, neck, back or rump but never the head. Your space is the length of your arm and she is to stay out of it. When you lead her give her about 3' of lead and flap your elbow periodically. This will keep her out of your space. You can teach respect by backing her, making her move her hindquarters over (always both sides), turning her away from you rather than toward you. When you turn her toward you she becomes the dominant one. When you turn her away, you are the dominant one.


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## Erfellie (Oct 18, 2011)

due to the round pen getting wet we didnt lunge but we did ride our obstacle course in the pasture yesterday and it went really great  I had almost no problem mounting (just a little movement) and when we started the course she kept throwing her head (she does this to purposefully rip the reins out of my hands then usually tries to run when she has her head). Usually I just tell her to stop it and we continue on our way (and she continues doing it) but today every time she threw her head down I did a hard one rein pull and made her do circles the quickly stop then back up, after 3 times she totally stopped throwing her head  I feel like I have made some progress in the respect department and that made me happy!


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## Flicagirl (Dec 8, 2010)

All horses NEED ground work and round pen work! It doesnt matter how old or sound they are they all need it!!! I had the same problem with my mare so I took two whips. One was a lunge whip the other was a dressage whip.......I cracked the lunge whip and if she didnt move I poked her right in the corner of the mouth.....just enough to get her attention. Then when she finally move she tried to turn into me but since I had the other whip _I pushed her away from me with the dressage whip at the corner of her mouth.....I did this several times until she finally got it!!!! _
REMEMBER: IF YOU ACT LIKE YOU HAVE 15 MINUTES IT WILL TAKE ALL DAY! BUT IF YOU ACT LIKE YOU HAVE ALL DAY IT WILL TAKE YOU 15 MINUTES!


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## Ian McDonald (Aug 24, 2011)

Horses respect those who command respect and follow those who know what they're doing. These things can't be faked (horses are good at reading people) but they can be learned. 

To me, gaining a horse's respect begins by getting his attention. If your horse is disregarding you, chances are his attention is somewhere other than on you. I want my horses to be totally focused on me and relaxed at the same time. That's my ideal situation. To achieve that from them, I have to be able to be that way myself. Ray Hunt said that it has to come from inside the person, to the horse, and then you can take it back.

It sounds like your horse is already fairly at-ease with you so you're halfway there. IMO you're right for not wanting to beat your horse with a whip. If you did you'd most likely sacrifice that comfort that he feels when he's around you. 

So how do you get a horse's attention? Same way you'd get a person's attention. If you say something to someone and they don't hear you, what do you do? Hit them with a stick? Hopefully not. Talk louder. Get their attention however you can.

Learn to be more assertive with your presence, project your intent through your body language more clearly and emphatically and the horse will respond. The stronger your body language becomes, the less you'll need to rely on whips and such.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Flicagirl said:


> All horses NEED ground work and round pen work!


I am going to disagree that all horses need round pen work. My 26 year old gelding and our 25 year old mare would readily agree with me. They know their jobs. I give beginner lessons on both of them and am always complimented on how well they behave.

The only time I work my 8 and 9 year olds in the round pen is regular undersaddle schooling when I would rather be outside than inside.

Every time you put a halter on a horse, it's ground work. They just don't need the continuous nagging with a stick and rope halter.


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## Erfellie (Oct 18, 2011)

Thanks again for all the suggestions, we had a great breakthrough yesterday and even better today. I am really feeling like big changes are happening now that i have committed myself more fully to working with her over the last few weeks especially. YAY!! 
I just have a hard time at being my normal soft spoken self and then being assertive enough to demand her respect. I just have to find that perfect place. we are definitely improving every day


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