# Starting again...



## Alhefner

Well, what the heck. The journal thing seems like a worthwhile endeavor so, here I go.

As of now, I'm 59 years old and getting back into horses. I currently live in the city and have to go out of town to a small horse farm to get my riding done but, they also give me lessons to refresh my skills and add new skills.

In about a year, I'll be setting up residence on 80 acres of high desert that I own. It'll be a fairly big project since there are no utilities out there at all... so, I'll be setting up my own power sources, sinking a well, the whole nine yards.

Once I'm set up to live on the property, the work of establishing a pasture, corral, and stable will be on the agenda. After that, I'll be ready to get my own horse. I would love a trained mustang since I plan to eventually train mustangs and get them ready for adoption.

I'm not 100% new to horses. It's been a long time since I had my own horse though.

That first horse was one my dad bought for me when we lived in the Ozarks of Arkansas. We got Star as a young filly from a neighbor. She, at first, was just a growing pet. I spent as much time every day as I could with her and, for the most part, she trusted me... for the most part.

I had absolutely no training...none. What I "knew" is what I read in the very few magazine articles I could find and what I saw on television...no internet way back then!

When Star was about 18 months old, I started getting her used to me putting things on her back... feed sacks, blankets, light weight things such as that.

About the time she turned two years old, and I turned 15, I led Star to a stump, got my 105 pound self onto the stump, then very slowly stepped over her back and lowered myself down. I didn't have a saddle and had only been putting a bridle on her for a couple of days.

Star just turned her head back to look at me as if to say, "What ya doing up there?"

It took about two days for me to teach Star that when I nudged her with both heels that I wanted her to move forward but, she figured that out OK. Next came steering and, within another week, she was neck reigning.

Things progressed quickly to the point that Star soon decided that when I jumped onto her back, she was supposed to start moving. I never learned how to stop that behavior and really didn't want to stop it. As long as I could get her to "whoa" after I was on her, I was OK with it.

Star's only job was to take me where I pointed her head at whatever speed I demanded of her... that was it and, other than working out some issues with spooking at blowing leaves, she did it without hesitation.

As for "trails", well, in that part of the Ozarks at that time, the only "trails" were old, overgrown wagon roads or deer trails. Yep, we used all of those and made our own up and down mountains. All bareback.

When it came to "brush busting" up or down the side of a mountain, Star preferred the straight up or straight down method and I usually just hung on as best I could till we got to the top or bottom.

Without any formal training, I feel that Star and I made a pretty good team but, now that I've seen what real training is like, what real horsemanship is like, I know that I did Star a great disservice. 

When I joined the Navy in 1975, I sold Star. I hope she got better treatment and better training than I was able to give her.

Now, I'm determined to do things the right way going forward...


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## Alhefner

So, it's a "journal" right? Time for the next installment on catching up to the present.

After I joined the Navy, I only rode a couple trail horses a couple of times. Usually "spur of the moment" decisions when I saw a riding stable that would rent horses. 

Well, I transferred to the "Fleet Reserve" (what most people refer to as retiring) after 20 years of Navy service. I still had no real "direction" I wanted to go so, I bounced from job to job. I did a lot of things ranging from unloading new cars from the railroad to mechanical/electrical maintenance in machine shops, concrete block plants, and refineries to the job I hold now as a night security officer at a wholesale auto auction... gotta make sure the cars don't sneak out, ya know.

In the last few years, my thinking has turned from what I want to do for a job to what I want to do...period. I decided that I want to be "out in the wilderness" pretty much full time.

With that goal in mind, I purchased two acreages. One is 57 acres of very flat land in a nice wide valley that I'm still paying for and the other is 80 acres of high desert scrub land that has hills on the western edge and very little flat land. This 80 acres is paid off.

I'll be 60 when I'm able to pull up stakes here in town and move out to my "wilderness" and I've decided that my 80 acre plot would be the best place. I'll have to install my own power generation gear since there are absolutely no utilities out there. My first "abode" will be some sort of largish RV... building an actual house will be a long term project.

Income won't be a huge issue as long as our economy stays on track enough that I still get my military retirement pay and am able to collect SS when I turn 62. So, earning money is sort of an afterthought... or hobby.

However, I am very much aware that I'll need "something to do" and THAT is where my thoughts turned to horses.

First of all, getting around in that wilderness, surrounded by BLM land, would be better done on a horse since much of it is not suited for wheeled vehicles and, I just don't want to spend all that gas.

Secondly, I'll be able to work with my horses daily. That means I'll be able to provide some very extensive training.

Having made the decision that I am going to have my own horses, I decided that I needed to start getting back into riding and learn what I had never learned before, horsemanship.

So, a search on google for places to take lessons in the Reno NV area brought me to a little "ranch" to the north of Reno that has some decent pricing and is a family owned and operated concern.

I've only been out there three times so far and each time, I've been paired with a character of horse named Charlie. Charlie is a QH and has been trained to do just about anything having to do with trail riding or cattle operations IF the rider knows how to order him to get it done. If the rider is quite obviously new, then Charlie quickly figures that out and will simply start grazing while the rider sits frustrated on his back. So far, I've been able to fool Charlie into thinking I am not 100% new to things.

That's where things stand with me right now. I'll be going back out for more lessons soon and hopefully, Charlie won't test me too much.


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## Alhefner

I have not done anything in the way of riding since my last journal entry.

Things happened... my Bronco needed repair and I spent way too many hours and too much $$$ getting that done.

Then, the icing on the cake showed up in the way of an IRS levy on my paycheck... oops! I'll not go into any rant about the IRS over this particular thing. It's something I could have easily avoided but, it's here, it's real, and it costs $$$. Working on getting that straightened out and perhaps even manage to get some fines and interest dropped.

Hopefully, in Dec. I can get back to riding! I actually miss "Charlie Horse" and his little bits of attitude.


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## whisperbaby22

Your land sounds great, good luck with your plans.


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## Alhefner

whisperbaby22 said:


> Your land sounds great, good luck with your plans.


Thanks! It's good land for me. If I were trying to make a living farming, growing crops, it would be pretty limited but, for critters, it's a good place.


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## Alhefner

An anecdote from back when I was a young teen riding Star...

One hot summer day in the Ozarks, I was on Star. Of course, I was riding bareback since a saddle was way too much for our budget.

Riding up to what we called the "top field", I made the decision that Star had to be getting hot and needed to cool down. Never mind the fact that I just wanted to do something different.

There was a shallow pond, perhaps five feet deep at the very deepest spot, and I get Star to wade through the shallows.

After some halfhearted protesting, Star waded in. When I got her to just over her knees in the water, Star decided that it felt pretty darned good. A few more steps and she stopped then laid down in the water to roll!

Nothing I did with the reigns could stop her. I had to just jump off and let her have her roll in the pond. When she finally had enough, I got back on and rode my wet, muddy, horse back home.

I wasn't too happy about it since I ended up wet and muddy too but my family thought it was all very hilarious.


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## elle1959

Sounds like you have a wonderful journey ahead of you! At 56, I am also late to learning horsemanship. Your 80 acres sounds like heaven and I can't wait to see how things progress for you.


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## Alhefner

Trying out a different instructor. The folks I was taking lessons from are great people but, the amount of actual instruction I was getting wasn't much. They seemed more oriented toward going on short (1 hour or so) trail rides with just a little time in the arena to start off with.

I really want more than that. So, while I still want to ride with the original folks, and "Charlie Horse", I'm looking for an instructor who will impart more knowledge per session.


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## Alhefner

Some people have "spooky" horses. Those big critters that panic over that "horse eating leaf" that just blew across the trail and such.

Well, I don't won a horse, yet, but I do have a "spooky" dog! I adopted Dany D. Dog (now called Dany D. Rottendog) in 2011. When I got her, EVERYTHING was "gonna get her" and she was actually terrified most of the time on walks.

With the temporary help of low doses of Prozac, Dany was able to calm down enough to sort things out and now she is a very calm, happy-go-lucky, "everybody has to pet me!", kind of mutt.

However, she still "spooks" from time to time. Today, it really was a "dog getting leaf" that blew around the enclosure for the dumpster at my apartment complex. She saw it move... jumped about 20 feet away, and then turned to try to figure it out.

Of course, I did my usual "What was THAT Dany? Was is scary?" in the happiest, most upbeat, tone of voice I could muster. then I pointed into the enclosure and said "Let's go see!".

That is all it takes. Dany takes her cue from my reaction and so, she happily explored the whole enclosure to find out what had scared her and found nothing to be worried about.


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## gunslinger

Heck....60 is the new 40 or so they say......GF is 60 and I'm 58....there's not a lot of youngsters that can keep up with us.....We took a 25 year old young lady with us Memorial Day weekend, and about 2 pm and 12 or so miles into the ride she asked "do ya'll do this every weekend"? "I don't think I can keep up with you 60 year olds"....

We go, and we ride all day.....so can you!


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## Alhefner

OK! Had my first lesson with the new instructor. It was cold and very windy and went very well! We spent a good 45 minutes on just the basics of getting ready to ride. Brushing down the horse, picking his hooves, saddling and bridling. Loads of info and hands on stuff.

The "lesson horse" is a 17 year old QH gelding that has seen it all, done it all, not worried about any of it. VERY laid back with a great deal of interest on whatever happens to be available to eat.:rofl:

The instructor made sure I had the basics of a one reign stop down pat before we went into the brush for a half hour ride. Other than having to convince my steed that it was time to keep moving and not time to graze, things went very smoothly. The horse's name is Tempus. He's got a very nice, smooth, trot...at least it's smooth uphill!

Looking forward to the next time I can get out there for another lesson.


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## Alhefner

Well, I was checking things out on Ebay for various DVD sets about horsemanship the other day and ran across Clinton Anderson's "Horsemanship 101" set. The reserve was $49.50 so I put it on my watch list.

Most of Clinton's stuff sells for several hundred $$$ but I ended up being only the second bidder and got it for $50.50 plus $3 for shipping.

I think Clinton is a pretty good "horseman" so I look forward to what I can learn from this DVD set.


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## Alhefner

Today, I had a two hour lesson with the new instructor. Things went very well and I learned/ tried new things.

Sabine, my instructor, had me catch and tack up the horse, Tempus, myself with only the occasional pointer or reminder. That went pretty well and then, since there is snow covering most of the ground, Sabine wanted the horses to have boots on their front feet. Though I had a couple of mistakes at first, I managed to get Tempus booted up. I now see why boots can be expensive too!

Today, other than getting the tack on the horse, we worked on using leg pressure to steer. Tempus wasn't fully "on board" with the idea at first but, he does know what it means. About half way through, he was at the point where I almost never had to touch the reigns to point him in any direction.

We had company throughout the lesson. The instructor has a boarder who went along with us. Also, the instructor's two dogs came along. About 3/4 of the way through it all, two coyotes decided that the dogs were very interesting and trailed along for a good while before giving up and wandering off. Got to remember to take the camera!

When we got back and put the horses back into the pasture, Sabine's horse (a paint stud), made darned sure to go right up to the mustang gelding and re-establish the pecking order... ears pinned by all concerned for a few minutes...gotta remember to take the camera!

All in all, a really good day in the saddle! I learned a lot, got to practice using my seat and legs, and just plain had a good time.


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## whisperbaby22

Boots can be a real pain to get on. Did you have to take them off, too?


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## Alhefner

whisperbaby22 said:


> Boots can be a real pain to get on. Did you have to take them off, too?


Yep! On and off. Wasn't all that difficult to do really. These hoof boots seemed to be very well made and fit the horse well.


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## knightrider

My husband happened to see that Clinton Anderson's set at a yard sale and bought it for me for $5. That was one of my Christmas presents. After I watch it, I am going to give it to 4Horses, who is a Clinton Anderson fan. After you and I both watch it, we can tell each other what we think.


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## whisperbaby22

I'd be interested in what brand of boots. I use easyboot trail because they are so easy to put on, but my horse is old, and we only do easy trails now. My experience with boots that can take rougher work are a pain to get on.


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## Alhefner

whisperbaby22 said:


> I'd be interested in what brand of boots. I use easyboot trail because they are so easy to put on, but my horse is old, and we only do easy trails now. My experience with boots that can take rougher work are a pain to get on.


I'll have to take a look at the brand next time. I do know that the instructor's horse was wearing "Easyboot" boots...


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## Alhefner

Nothing "horse related" going on until week after next... One "tow hour lesson" every other week is about all I can afford right now.

Got some $$$ going outbound to the IRS but the good news is that I can afford it..for now...


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## Alhefner

Finally got the Clinton Anderson "horsemanship 101" DVD set. it's 6 discs and over 10 hours.

I watched it all and can say it's very good for the absolute beginner. There are few parts that I'll be watching again since he goes over some things I never knew about.


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## Alhefner

Another two hour lesson/ride on the long suffering and ever so steady Tempus. Worked on proper saddling, putting hoof boots on, basic tacking up then started out.

I practiced using my seat and legs to cue Tempus. He isn't very sensitive to such subtle cues... prefers to follow his buddy Summer but, we got there eventually.

There was one "horse eating box" on the side of the road that Tempus was very leery of but, he went past it without any shenanigans. He did want to give that suspicious box a very wide berth but, I insisted he walk closer to it and he did, reluctantly.

One coyote took interest in us and the two dogs we had along. He just watched and eventually trotted off to go bed down again after marking over where my instructor's male dog had marked.

I did take my video camera along so, I'll get that ready and posted tomorrow. I wanted to make sure I got video of Summer, the stallion, getting turned out to the pasture where a mustang gelding thinks he's high horse... they go through it every time.


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## Alhefner

So, I'm a day late in getting this posted but, here is my ride from Thursday. I had to do a LOT of cutting just to get usable video! Never thought that taking video on horseback would be so challenging...also, can't figure out how to embed video in my posts yet.

https://youtu.be/K-AH62A8Ydo


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## DanteDressageNerd

It's a cute video. I miss trail riding. Nevada looks like a neat place to ride.


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## Alhefner

Thanks! Yep, Norther Nevada is great for trail riding! Just get out of town, find a place that's not fenced off, or that you are allowed to go through a gate, and go for it!


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## Alhefner

Wed. should be interesting. Got a 2 hour session scheduled on Tempus. This time, Dany D. Dog will be going along at the invitation of my instructor. Dany HAS seen horses before and even sniffed the heels of one tired cow horse but she has never had any other interaction with them.

I've got some goals this time. I want to get Tempus out and a distance from the instructor's horse. Not too sure how well that will go since Tempus tries to stay glued to Summer's backside as much as possible. We'll see!


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## Alhefner

Ya know that last lesson I went on about? didn't happen! Weather and other obligations simply did NOT cooperate!

So, I've scheduled another two hour session for next Tuesday. Weather reports/predictions look very good for it too.

My plan is to assert myself with Tempus, the lesson horse, and get him moving out and away from the stallion he likes to follow around.


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## Alhefner

*02-16-2016 lesson*

Got to go on the two hour lesson/ride today! Dany D. Rottendog got to go along and have her first every REAL interaction with horses. While she was on the leash, she was pretty timid and scared but, as soon as the leash was off, she was perfectly fine and soon had no issue at all being around, under, behind, or in front of the horses.

The first two photos are of the scenery.
The next two are of Dany on leash and not sure of herself at all!
Next is Summer, the instructor's horse, and then Dany and Summer
Finally, we have Tempus, Dany laying near Jake, and Dany sitting for a photo with Tempus.


As for the lesson, I had a goal of getting Tempus to pay more attention to me instead of falling asleep following other horses. For the most part, that worked pretty well! He didn't want to move away fro the other horses at first but, I insisted and he complied. Each time got better. I even managed to get Tempus to neck reign a bit!


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## Alhefner

Yesterday was a great day f0r riding. Temps in the upper 60's, no wind, scattered clouds.

Tempus did very good and Dany D. Rottendog got lessons in staying out of the way. She tends to sort of stop right in front of the horses... a few close calls of almost getting stepped on and she eventually learned not to do that!

Rode for about 7 miles. Took Tempus off the trail several times mostly to teach him that I'm the leader and that he can trust my judgement. Did some work on getting him to step up his pace too. that is a bit harder since he prefers to just plod along but, he did eventually get the message... sorta...

The video is just me grooming Tempus in preparation for saddling and riding. I wasn't paying attention and managed to upload the video to my business channel...oh well!

https://youtu.be/7DCB_ujYYN0


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## Alhefner

*Feeling the stress... what to do, what to do?*

OK, so the company I work for has been bought out by another corporation. though the "official word" is that nothing is going to change for the employees, those of us who are a bit familiar with the other corporation know differently.

My job is "night security officer" and, I work alone, 7 nights straight of 12 hour shifts, then get 7 days off. It's a very good schedule! I like the work at night too since I don't have to deal with the idiocy of the daytime...been there, done that, didn't like it!

There is EVERY chance that my schedule will change so that I would have 8 hour shifts and there will probably be another person on shift with me. that would reduce my pay and reduce the time I have off to get things done.

There is also every chance that the new corporation will FIRE all current security personnel and hire outside security... it is what they have done at all their other locations.

So, I busting my skull working on ways to get MOVED out of Reno and onto my 80 acres of high desert scrub!

At a minimum, I'll need to have a well drilled and septic system installed. I can use an RV to live in and I'm knowledgeable/skilled enough to install the solar power system I'll need.

Another option is to get a loan for new construction to have the well, septic system, solar power, and a manufactured home put in.

I'm fairly sure I cn afford payments of about $500 per month easily on my military retirement and still have a good cushion of $$ each month.

The bottom line is that it is time to chuck this city life NOW and get my butt out to where I want to be!


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## Alhefner

*Very good group trail ride.*

As my readers might be aware, I bought 80 acres of high desert scrub outside of Winnemucca Nevada. From the beginning, I planned on moving out to that property to retire.

Well, “retirement” day might be coming sooner than I expected!
Anyway, I’ve started getting back into horseback riding as part of my preparation. Horses will be a main mode of transportation once I get moved. My plan is to first get a couple of mustangs that have been trained through the prison program then start gentling/training mustangs right out of BLM holding so those can be adopted more easily.
Well, I’ve been taking lessons and yesterday, I went on a group trail ride. There were 10 riders in all. Two were riding mules. I was on an older paint gelding, Tempus.













Tempus did pretty well but, he's still a bit of a character. Whenever another horse is within reach on the trail, he wants to nip it on the butt... same goes for dogs too!

During the first part of the ride, I really didn't do my job and allowed Tempus to set his own pace... if he wanted to walk, we walked...if he wanted to trot to catch up to others, we trotted. I just played passenger with a little use of reigns to guide him on the trail.

THAT was a mistake! Tempus took it to mind that he was incharge of just about all of it and toward the later part of the ride, would break into a trot whenever he thought he was falling behind whether I liked it or not.

I managed to put a stop to that behavior! When he would go into a trot on his own, I would pull him around into making circles and make him walk out of those. It didn't take long to reestablish the pecking order and soon, he was taking cues from me properly...well, mostly properly.

The dogs all did great! they did get a bit hot on the trail due to their running all over the place to go explore. Dany D. Rottendog isn't used to that kind of activity and she took advantage of shade at every opportunity.



















Here are the rest of the usable pics from the ride! Enjoy!


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## walkinthewalk

*Al, *. I commented in the 50's thread

My question is:

These pics are small, how did you get them to enlarge in the other thread? I like the bigger pictures better but, I can't get mine to enlarge.

Are they in an album on this forum? I import from Photobucket. Thanks!


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## Alhefner

walkinthewalk said:


> *Al, *. I commented in the 50's thread
> 
> My question is:
> 
> These pics are small, how did you get them to enlarge in the other thread? I like the bigger pictures better but, I can't get mine to enlarge.
> 
> Are they in an album on this forum? I import from Photobucket. Thanks!


The forum software reduced them. Not sure why the difference. On my other thread, with all the pics one after the other and no narrative between them, I used the "attachment" function to upload pics to the forum. In this post, the pics are actually hosted on my own site and simply linked in to the post using the "insert image" function of the editor.


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## Alhefner

*I'm back!*

Well, I've been busy and neglected this forum for quite some time. I have a lot of catching up to do!

On the house building front, I've put that off for at least a year... Other than being sure of being able to get financing... absolutely nothing else fell into place!

As for horses... I've been riding the ever put upon Tempus a lot. In doing so, I have come to the conclusion that I have out grown what Mr. Tempus is willing to allow. After all, he is a 20 year old feller and is ridden by so many other people... Mostly people who want nothing more than to sit on a hose as it makes all of the choices of speed and direction.

Soooooo.... I'm diving in head first! I bought an old horse trailer in really pretty good shape. Found a place to board a horse... and am going to go to the Norther Nevada Correctional Center tomorrow to attend the auction of saddle trained mustangs.

Before anyone starts screaming at me, yes, I know full well that these horses are "green broke" and REQUIRE a lot more work! I'll be working with the horse DAILY. During the weeks I have to work, it'll be 1 to 2 hours per day. On the weeks I don't have to work, it'll be 4 to 12 hours per day depending on progress and what the work entails. I plan on keeping this schedule for as long as it takes... or until I drop dead...which ever one comes first. It will probably be two weeks before I saddle the horse so I can concentrate on ground work.

Onward to the "dog front". Dany D. Rottendog is an absolute air head! She has no fear at all around ANY horse...none! The place I'll be boarding at has about 30 horses in residence. None of the horses know Dany nor does she know any of them. However, the two times I've taken her there, she simply assumed that ALL the hoses would be perfectly FINE with some strange mutt scampering around THEIR pens (each is over 50' X 50') to go sniffing around the brush, UNDER THE HORSES, and running up to sniff their back feet. If that dog survives another month without getting her head kicked in or her ear bitten off, I'll be surprised!


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## walkinthewalk

Welcome back!! 

I think it's a great idea to get a horse from the Correctional Facility. Me thinks green broke from there, will be a much better all around horse than green broke from somewhere else.

PLUS, I would like to think nobody is going to pull any punches about the horse. If you ask, I would think the trainers would be more inclined to give you a straight up answer than Joe or Jolene Blow on Craigslist

Danny D Rottendog: keep an eye on her so she doesn't end up whapped in the head. 

My younger Catahoula envisions himself an alpha dog --- over everyone and everything. He occasionally still tries going paw-to-hoof with my big Walking Horse and he still loses, lol. 

Rusty knows he can defend himself from the dog but please try not to kill a family member, albeit a fairly new family member.

Last night Rusty came cantering thru the paddock, ears pinned, head down, right on the Catahoula's skinny red tail. Rusty could have had that dog but he chose to scare the begeezus out of him instead, lollollol

Danny sounds like she needs a horse playmate - I hope she picks one that won't try to send her to the ER

Please keep us posted on your new horse adventure.

A fairly green horse will mean more work and mental altertness from you. You will have to learn to recognize when the horse is giving to you, then "release and praise" . 

unless you've been schmoozing us, I think you will do just fine. Having a boat load of common sense and a sense of fair play while still being a firm disciplinarian, are the key components to successfully bringing a horse along

My horses long ago reached the point of not needing tied for any sort of grooming, including the shop vac and baths.

Joker stands for a bath without a halter. Rusty needs the halter but I either throw the rope over the fence or don't even use a lead rope. His demeanor at shower time determines whether or not I put the lead rope on him. He is a horse that never stops testing, lollol


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## Alhefner

Thanks Walkinthewalk! Yeah, Dany has some educating to go through.

As for alertness, yep! Gonna have to be on top of my game! Horses send a lot of messaging through subtle body language that lots of folks miss and then end up hurt.

As for giving release at the right time, I'm gonna do my best! I'll screw it up from time to time though for sure. I've been working on that and getting better and better but, Mr. Tempus is a horse that as soon as he gets "release" figures it's time to stop and graze! That usually goes on for about the first half hour on a steady basis but gradually improves for the next half hour. Then, the second hour is getting close to riding a horse that is paying attention...

Tomorrow, if I do win a bid on a horse, is going to be bit nerve wracking for me. I've pulled trailers plenty of times but never before with a 1,000 pound critter inside of one! Once I get the horse to the boarding ranch and unload, I'll spend a half hour just getting acquainted. THEN, I have to go home, load up Dany D. Rottendog, head back tot he boarding ranch and do some very light ground work with the horse for an hour THEN go in to work my night shift! The next morning, after work, it's time to get real with the initial ground work for a couple of hours...


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## walkinthewalk

The most important thing about pulling horses is to remember you can't take turns or go around bends as fast as if you were pulling a boat, or other dead weight.

Braking has to a bit more delicate until the horse gets used to it.

I hauled three horses from PA to SoCal, then back to Middle Tennessee five years later.

I ran the interstates 75 MPH most of the time because I was on 4 lanes and mostly straight highway.

One thing of caution with your new trailer (to you

1. Repack the wheel bearings, without question.

2. Even if the tires look like they have plenty of tread, if they are a year or more old, get new tires if your possibly can. Tires dry rot easily in your arid temps. I have a couple un-nerving stories you don't want to hear. I didn't wreck and none of the horses were injured but it got dicey.

Check your truck tires too. My worst blow-out was the rear truck tire - down on the rim in 30 seconds, before I could get slowed down, on the OK City by-pass in the middle of rush hour. I had an invisible force helping steer the truck that evening.

Just some cautionary advice as to what can happen when tires look brand new but have sat too long in the arid SW air.

Good luck with your bid!


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## Alhefner

*I'm a horse owner...*

Got back from the trained mustang adoption at the Northern Nevada Correctional Center.
I now own a horse! The name given to him by the inmate trainer is "Barney Rubble". He's 15 hands and 1000 pounds. I looked him over pretty well and liked him a lot BUT, he was born in the BLM holding facility and I really wanted a wild caught mustang so, I picked out three other horses to bid on. These horses are sent through bidding ONE TIME and ONLY one time. If they do not get a bid, they are sent to the NEXT auction.
But, Mr. Barney Rubble was the first mustang to come up for competitive bidding. The bids for these horses ALWAYS start at $150. I sat on the bleachers and listened to the auctioneer saying "Barney Rubble! $150! Who'll bit $150...150...150...150...one hundred fifty dollars...who'll bid 150? for almost two full minutes!
I could not believe that NOBODY would bid a measly $150 for this horse! He's a good horse! He's friendly, easy going, and looks really good! But, nobody bid!
So, I could not stand it any longer and held up my bidder card. "Bidder #4 bids $150. It's 150....now 200....150...now 200..." went on for another two minutes and NOBODY bid against me!
I now have a green broke mustang for $150!
The only hitch is that my trailer IS too small! The poor horse kept hitting his head on the ceiling whenever he tried to get in so, he simply would not go in! I have the guy who runs the place I'll be boarding him going to pick Mr. Rubble up tomorrow though.

Here's a pic:


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## walkinthewalk

I LOVE that horse! He is my kinda color, build, head set ------ he is gorgeous!!!

You got one swingin' deal.

Now what with the horse trailer----- can you take it back or will you have to try and resell it?

At the minimum, buy a trailer with an inside height of 6'6".

My Tennessee Walker, Rusty, is 16.1H and loads/rides comfortably in my stock trailer. He went cross-country twice my stock trailer that is 6'6" inside, and he did fine.

I am excited for you and Barney!!


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## elle1959

He's beautiful! You did great 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Alhefner

walkinthewalk said:


> I LOVE that horse! He is my kinda color, build, head set ------ he is gorgeous!!!
> 
> You got one swingin' deal.
> 
> Now what with the horse trailer----- can you take it back or will you have to try and resell it?
> 
> At the minimum, buy a trailer with an inside height of 6'6".
> 
> My Tennessee Walker, Rusty, is 16.1H and loads/rides comfortably in my stock trailer. He went cross-country twice my stock trailer that is 6'6" inside, and he did fine.
> 
> I am excited for you and Barney!!


Thanks! As for the trailer, can't take it back BUT, I CAN raise the ceiling...it'll take some cutting, welding, metal fabrication, but, it can be done and I know how to do it. Gonna raise it to 7'.

Or, I can sell it as is and find another one...


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## Alhefner

*First day with Barney*

Well, Barney got to his new home today! The phone call from the facility owner who transported him woke me at about noon to let me know Barney was home. Since I had worked all night, I went back to sleep but got up about 3PM, had my coffee and got woken up then, went out to see my horse!

Barney was still pretty keyed up! He's in a holding pen for the next couple of days to sort of settle in before moving him to his own enclosure... a HUGE enclosure full of very tasty weeds!

I spent a good 1.5 hours hanging out doing simple things like picking up his feet, having him back up and then reeling him back in, and starting to teach him to lower his head. Of course, there was a lot of time just rubbing him all over from nose to tail too. Barney did pretty good!

I found that Barney really likes people...a whole lot! He also seems to crave being praised for being a 'good boy'. HOWEVER he does have a little bit of the rebel in him too! While teaching him to lower his head, a few times he was stating to get annoyed and tried to move off. I didn't let that work.

One thing is that I do want put a bit more weight on him in the form of muscle! He's a bit on the thin side for my liking.

I also need to wash him down. He's a dirty horse right now.

Here are a few more pics from today:


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## Alhefner

*Took Barney to the round pen yesterday...and today.*

Well, I decided to take Mr. Barney Rubble to the round pen yesterday to see what was what. He did OK but, there are differences in ow he was trained and how I feel he should be trained... cues and all that jazz. Barney is very tuned in to the stick and string! So much so that he seems to just about panic whenever I raise the end of the stick. Waving it around, OH NO that means RUN and RUN NOW!

This morning, after work, I took him back to the round pen to work on things like "sending" and yielding the hind and fore quarters. THAT turned interesting. He didn't seem to know what I wanted at all. We made some poggress but as I used the stick to tap on a shoulder or hip, Barney decided that meant "lunge and lunge NOW" so, I got some rope burn... oh well. Since he seemed to actually WANT to lunge, I insisted that he lunge...at the speed I wanted and for as long as I wanted.

This video is from yesterday:


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## whisperbaby22

Nice, he looks great.


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## Alhefner

*Barney Rubble update...*

Now that I'm able to log back onto the forum, it's time to update everyone on Barney's progress/regress...

Well, I was just thinking I needed to let Barney get used to having me around. Sort of taking things easy, doing very mild work in the round pen, petting on him, brushing...etc...

I was *WRONG!* 

Mr. Barney got much too familiar! In fact, he seemed to get the idea in his head that I was just another 'buddy'. Today when I went to work with him after work, he stated to act as if he wanted to see if he could move up in the pecking order...nipping, pushy, inattentive...

Soooo, I put his halter and lead rope on him and took Mr. Barney to the round pen. 45 minutes later, he was a very different horse! He learned that he had to move where I directed, when I directed, and at the speed I directed (sometimes slow...sometimes fast...according to MY whim).

We also worked on the command "stand". I think that was a totally new one for him but, he caught on pretty quickly.

Barney is a SMART horse! He also is a horse that if you let him make a mistake without correction, then he figures he can make that mistake from then on out PLUS a whole host of NEW mistakes... "Give him an inch and he'll take 10 miles"!

This is my first of 7 days off... Barney has no clue what he's got in store for him over the next 7 days...none!:biggrin:


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## Alhefner

Barney got a taste of what the next few days are going to be like. I spent an hour or two with him just working on basic things like sending him between barrels, direction changes, speed changes, keeping focus on me.

Somehow, the SAME LEAD ROPE I've been using with him managed to turn into a "horse eating snake!"... he became totally freaked out by it then he got to just drag it around for a good long time until he settled down.

The owner of the boarding facility had an old saddle that fit Barney sooooo, on the saddle went! Barney sort of tried to shy away...sort of but, he eventually stood nice and calm to be saddled. I even got on for a few minutes just to see what he would do... not much! I did get him to walk forward but, since I had no steering or brakes installed (no lead rope), I just let him walk across the round pen.

By the end of the day, if I held my right hand high and pointed to the right, Barney IMMEDIATELY stated off to the right. Same with the left! He's more consistently turning to the inside too. As for his canter in the round pen, correct lead EVERY TIME with NO cross firing!

I got a good horse! Green as hell but, very good.


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## Alhefner

Well, today was a bit different with Mr. Barney Rubble, His most Extreme Horseness.
I got him a headstall and snaffle bit and put that on him. He did alright and I lunged him around some to get him used to it. All went well.
Then, I put his saddle pad on and led him around wearing that. Still OK. When I left to go get the saddle, the pad fell off and spooked him but, he didn't spook badly and then went over to investigate it on the ground.
Saddling went well too! Just a couple of minor flinches! Then, I determined that it was time to get on and ride Barney around the round pen. I thought I had it made in the shade!
I didn't. Barney decided to really hug the fence so, I decided to correct that using the reins... The rodeo was ON! Oh, it didn't last more than a couple of bucks and I stayed in the saddle but, I had to use a one rein stop to settle Mr. Barney back down and get him to stop. I was not about to get off before he stopped either! If I had just jumped off right after he finished bucking, he would have learned that the way to get the human off is to buck!


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## Change

You did good to ride him out and stop him. I wished you'd stayed in the saddle longer to make him work and do as you directed after the stop and settle, though. I know your heart was probably up in your throat - I know mine was the first time my mare played that trick.

All in all, though, I think Barney is a really nice horse and you are doing great work with him!


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## Alhefner

*Invasion of the horse snatchers!*

Thanks, Change! Yeah, it's been quite a while since I had a horse start to buck. I'm thinking that something with that saddle or the fact that I didn't have the snaffle bit just right may have triggered it. Today was better...

SOMEBODY, snatched Mr. Barney Rubble overnight and substituted a NEW HORSE that looks just like Mr. Barney, has SOME of the personality of Mr. Barney, but, somehow, is MUCH more willing to do as directed!

Well, OK, it IS Barney but, he really was quite the different horse today.

I started off on a good note...taking him away from his breakfast:redface:. Barney didn't even act a little put off by that... not one little bit!

Then, I was going to demonstrate to the ranch owner how I have to tug on the lead line to get Barney to laterally flex... I TOUCHED the lead line...TOUCHED, mind you! and Barney's head started to come right around! Did that on both sides...multiple times!

The only time I had even slight "issues' with Barney was when thee were other horses doing "fun stuff" and Barney wanted to watch...He wanted to see every horse all at the same time so, he had to be 'reminded' that his human demanded his attention.

I shot video for the entire 3+ hours so, I'll edit that and get it posted soon...I hope...


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## Change

Sounds like all Mr. Barney really needs is miles. And miles. And miles. You can work on all that leg response and neck reining just as easy out on a trail as you can in an arena, and in my experience, the horse seems to enjoy learning it more. Kind of those, "Aha! That's why you want me to do that!" moments.


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## Alhefner

*Video of Barney's training on 6/19/2016*


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## bsms

Just want to say I'm enjoying this thread!


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## Alhefner

bsms said:


> Just want to say I'm enjoying this thread!


Good deal! Just think, the fun is just getting started!


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## Alhefner

*Two good days in a row! I can't stand it!*

I started out with Barney at 7AM today... before his breakfast! The farrier was going to be showing up at around 8 and I KNEW I had to get the ******s run out of him before that!

From the first round in the round pen, I could tell that Barney was totally full of beans! He was really feeling good and wanted to make darned sure I knew it. HOWEVER, other than one or two instances of "I wanna turn THIS way!", he did pretty good. I lunged him for about 45 minutes mostly at a trot or canter...made darned sure that there wee plenty of direction changes too.

The farrier said that Barney really needs to stay in shoes on his front feet. He's a bit club footed on the fronts but the backs are just fine. No problem. If that's what it takes to keep him in good shape, then I'll gladly do it.

After the farrier, I took Barney back to his pen so he could eat then I took off for an hour to get other things done. When I got back, Barney was ready to do other things!

I saddled him up, took him to the round pen and found that he was STILL full of beans! So, another half hour of vigorous round penning!

When Barney seemed to have blown off enough steam, I got into the saddle and we started riding around the pen...across the pen...turning into the fence...etc...

I discovered that only very light pulls of the reins are MORE than enough to get Barney to turn...he tends to want to KEEP turning so, correction is needed in order to have a semi-straight line.

Another discovery is that Barney knows to yield his hind quarters when I put my heel to his flank! No reins needed to turn this horse, just slide your foot back!

I have another fairly long video in the works now and I'll post that whenever it is on Youtube...


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## Alhefner

The video I promised of yesterday's training. M. Barney gets introduced to the wash station at about the 20 minute mark.


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## walkinthewalk

> *The farrier said that Barney really needs to stay in shoes on his front feet. He's a bit club footed on the fronts but the backs are just fine. No problem. If that's what it takes to keep him in good shape, then I'll gladly do it*


1. As long as the farrier doesn't try to "CORRECT" those club hooves and screw up the legs. 

Club hooves should be trimmed according to what THEY want not what the human wants.

I'm hoping the farrier only wants shoes kept on Barney because you will be doing a lot of riding.

Club-hoof horses tend to wear their toes down to the nubs while the heels keep growing up to their ear lobes. I have a less-than-Grade 1 club hoof horse; his is inherited from his top side grandsire, whom people just kept on breeding because he produced winners for the show ring ---- along with passing that club hoof along to a bazillion of his Get:sad:

It's unusual for a horse to have both fronts clubbed. Barney's are likely from how he stood grazing as colt and nobody to trim him, since he was in the wilds

2. That said, you could also consider hoof boots for riding.

3. I looked at a portion of your first video. I pay for WiFi time, so I have to be mindful of how I spend my Gb time:x

Barney is a sweetie. He had his ears up, waiting for you in the first video

The two of you are going to have a wonderful life together and I am *really impressed * how you rode the buck out:bowwdown::clap::bowwdown::clap:


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## Alhefner

Thanks walkinthewalk! He is a pretty sweet horse but, he's a youngster still, only 6, and like his fun too. That's why I do lot of round pen work before saddling him! Absolutely HAVE to get the ******s out!

Barney was born in a BLM holding facility. His hooves were not really touched until he had a case of thrush while at the Northern Nevada correctional Center's mustang training program. That's when he got shoes on his fronts.

The place he's boarded in is pretty rocky like the natural environment too so, keeping shoes on his fronts sort of makes sense to me. This farrier is pretty well respected too and I'm going to trust his judgement for the time being.

I'm about to head out to work with him more.


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## Alhefner

*Mr. Pushy is back*

I worked with Barney for about half an hour before he got his breakfast yesterday then took off to get some things done. It wasn't until after 6PM that I got back to work with Barney some more.

He was still in the process of eating his supper but, I took him away from that. Of course, he wasn't really thrilled at leaving his meal! Leading, Barney tried to balk a few times...he didn't try too hard but still, he balked.

My goal for the evening was to do some more desensitizing with the stick and string. As long as I'm just gently waving the stick near him and gently flipping the string over, around, and under him, everything is JUST FINE! He'll stand calmly for it all.

HOWEVER, put some energy into the stick so that it and the string make noise, well, then, it's panic time!

I have a 23' lead rope so, I went out from Barney about 14' and stated the session. Barney pulled back but not hard enough that I couldn't hold him in place. It took about 5 minutes to get him t relax while I swung the stick and string, slapping the popper on the ground hard.

Then, I shortened the distance by about 5' and went through it again. Things went pretty well but, when I would go to reward Barney with scratches and pets, he was starting to push into me a bit.

The third time, I got a couple of feet closer to Barney and again, he did OK but, he stated to get a LOT more pushy when I would go to reward him for standing still. In fact, he actually stated to try moving over me a bit.

That wasn't acceptable at all!

Soooooo, since he seemed to be a bit full of himself, I decided he needed round penning.

I started him at a trot and had really planned on keeping him at that pace while just doing a lot of changes of direction. It was Barney's idea to go into a canter!

Well, alrighty then. Mr. Barney wants to canter? Canter he will...Until _*I*_ decide differently!

15 minutes later, Barney was much more respectful so, I end3d the session and took him back to his supper.

I'll be heading out to do today's work with him in about an hour... he'll have already had his breakfast. We'll see if Barney is ready to be ridden!


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## Alhefner

Good morning with Mr. Barney again today. I got to the ranch at about 10AM. I wanted to wait so that Barney had a chance to get some breakfast before starting to work.
The goal today was to work a bit on getting Barney to yield his hind quarters. We worked on that for about half an hour and he was doing OK. Not great but OK.
Next, it was time to put his saddle on and get the new breast collar properly adjusted. I took some time and having Barney move around wearing it before I got it right but, it worked out pretty well.
I rode Barney in the round pen for a good long time. He did really well at a walk and trot even though his trot is more of bouncing straight up and down with some forward movement! He did start having some issues though... seems that Mr. Barney is a ladies man! A girl showed up to do some things at the ranch and Mr. Barney wanted to watch every move she made instead of paying attention to what his rider (me) was telling him to do! In the end, I won that little difference of opinion.
After riding in the round pen, I put Barney's lead rope on him (he still had his saddle and bridle on) and led him to the arena. There, I walked him around to investigate all the things there (barrels, cones, logs, etc...) but none of it was worrisome to him so, I got back into the saddle and rode him around.
It was in the arena that Barney decided that "whoa" only meant stop for a few seconds then walk off again. So, we worked on that for a while and again, I prevailed in the difference of opinion.
It got hot...my skin was stating to burn a bit more...I unsaddled Barney and took him back to his pen. There is a lot of water there for him and there was left over hay. Barney didn't even LOOK at the water after I got his halter off but went straight to the hay... He might be part camel!


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## walkinthewalk

I think Barney is still young enough to get that rough trot out of him but you will have work on that early AM or late PM when it's a lot cooler.

Work him in deep sand but not for a long time.

That is how my granddad had my cousin and I work his horses. Every Spring, there was a new group of young horses to start.

Grandad would plow then disc, preparing for planting. He would delay planting a little bit to give us girls time to work the horses at a trot in the disked field.

It teaches the horse to absorb much of the action below the knees. --- sort of like shock absorbers.

We were never allowed to work them more than 15 minutes, like that. I never asked why but I'm sure it's because too much time doing that kind of work is hard on the tendons.

So find yourself an area of deep sand, start out a few minutes at a time and see what happens.

FWIW, I probably had the only Arab/Saddlebred on the planet that could do a Walking Horse rocking chair canter better than any Walking Horse. I had him to where you could hear each footfall -- he was a thing of beauty to watch and I taught him that in the disked field. He didn't learn that overnight but once he did, his handsome self was breathtaking to watch


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## Change

His trot is also probably a bit short-striding right now as he learns how to balance himself with a rider on his back. It will get smoother as he becomes more balanced. Working him on transitions, serpentines, and turning into the rail to get him to anticipate the stops/changes, raise his back, and work off his back end will also help.


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## Alhefner

walkinthewalk and Change, thank you for the suggestions. I don't know of any deep sand on the ranch where I board Barney but the round pens are pretty loose sand to about 4" or so.

I do a LOT of turning into the rails with Barney. As for serpentine stuff...he manages to make that happen all by his little horsey self! The boy walks off like a drunk sometimes. I have been correcting that to teach him to walk the direction his nose is pointed instead of veering off to one side or another.

Gonna head on out to the ranch in a few minutes to get there before his breakfast. I've got my GoPro set up on a chest mount. We'll see if any of that video is fit for publication...


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## Alhefner

*Working with Mr. Barney.*

I got to the ranch early, about 6:15AM, and got Barney straight into his saddle. No preliminary round penning.

After some initial "I don't wanna" while leading him away from his pen, things went pretty smoothly.

I did do some very light work of having him simply move where I pointed in the round pen before getting into the saddle.

Once in the saddle, I rode him around the round pen working on basic direction changes, whoa, and go. He did really good and, since Dany D. Rottendog wanted in on the action, we played follow/chase the dog.

After the round pen, we spend time in the arena. Barney did OK again but, we had some issues with whoa again. He's getting it though. Again, we had the opportunity to play follow the dog and I also walked him around some barrels.

Video (selected clips) are here:


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## Alhefner

*Gonna try bitless today*

Barney has been putting his tongue over the snaffle bit. From all that I've read, that is a sign that something is wrong and I need to find out what that is. I'll get the vet out to take a look at his mouth and correct any issues he finds.

In the mean time, I'm thinking bitless is the way to go. Today, I'll try just saddling him up and using the halter with a lead rope for reins.

I'll let everyone know how that goes for us!


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## tinyliny

or, the snaffle could be adjusted too low. how do you know his tongue is over the bit? can you see it?


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## tinyliny

i went back to try and read more of your story, since I didn't know who Barney was, or how you got him or anything. I watched your rodeo vid, too. I get a feeling that , just as you said, the saddle is part of the issue. it looks to be too long for his short back, and placed a bit too far back. it also seems to drop down in front, so it might be too wide for him. then, with your weight in it, it may be digging into his shoulder or even laying down on top of the spinus processes. not sure, but watching how it flops on his back during round penning, it just doesn't seem right. also, it is too big in the seat for you. i know you are struggling for money , but hopefully, a saddle that is sized for YOU and Barney will be on your radar soon.

it's cute how you talk to Barney so much. I tend to talk to the horses quite a bit when I am getting them out of the pasture. like a greeting, after spending several days apart. horse probably doesn't care, but i enjoy it.


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## Alhefner

tinyliny said:


> or, the snaffle could be adjusted too low. how do you know his tongue is over the bit? can you see it?



Yes, I can see it. The bit is at the proper height...not low...not high.

I'm using a different saddle than the one where Barney bucked. I fits me pretty well and fits Barney pretty well and he's shown absolutely no sign of protest or discomfort with that one.

Today, I rode with jut the halter and mecate rein. Barney did fine for the most pat but, there were other hoses and riders moving around and he REALLY wanted to watch them so, at times, he became a bit heavy in the turns if turning away from where he could see something.

I think Mr. Barney wasn't quite ready for our session to end. He was a bit of a brat as I was unsaddling him. He even managed to sneak in a small nip at my ribs...in return, he got an elbow to the nose. Even after that, he kept trying to sneak in a nibble here and there.

Video is in the works...


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## walkinthewalk

Try not to make every time you see Barney a "work day". Some of Barny's reluctance may be that all he does is work work work whenever you visit him

That saying "all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy", can apply to horses too

Take a day here and there to go into Barney's space and just enjoy him. Let him be himself and talk. Take a chair, sit in shade inside his corral. Bring a couple of sport bottles of water - one for each of you. His lesson for the day could be learning to drink from a sport bottle ---- something I taught my horses when I lived in SoCal.

I also discovered Duke, in my avatar, loved sourdough bread and NOT the crust, lol. He wanted the bread without the crust so I got that when we were out on the trail, lol


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## Alhefner

walkinthewalk said:


> Try not to make every time you see Barney a "work day". Some of Barny's reluctance may be that all he does is work work work whenever you visit him
> 
> That saying "all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy", can apply to horses too
> 
> Take a day here and there to go into Barney's space and just enjoy him. Let him be himself and talk. Take a chair, sit in shade inside his corral. Bring a couple of sport bottles of water - one for each of you. His lesson for the day could be learning to drink from a sport bottle ---- something I taught my horses when I lived in SoCal.
> 
> I also discovered Duke, in my avatar, loved sourdough bread and NOT the crust, lol. He wanted the bread without the crust so I got that when we were out on the trail, lol


Funny you should say that! I was planning on tomorrow morning being a "let's go for a walk" morning. I will simply go and lead him around through the weeds and brush letting him take his time, look around, eat all the weeds he desires.

I've done that once before with Barney and he seemed to really enjoy it. Well, mostly enjoy it. In the really thick tall weeds, he became a fancy, high steppin, horse...


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## walkinthewalk

The walks are a terrific idea!

One of the things I used to do whenever I left from the house for a ride, was to get off the last quarter or half mile from home and walk beside Duke. "Share the pain", if you will, lollol

It didn't take long to where I didn't even have to hold the reins, I just left them on him and walked beside me. I had to walk pretty fast as his dog walk was faster than the average Tennessee Walker, regardless of the direction he was going, lol. It was more like power walking for me. Duke's ears were always up --- I think he was laughing, lollol


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## Alhefner

*Today's training with Barney in a halter.*

Here is the video of today's training. It's just selected segments from my chest mounted GoPro camera.

He did pretty well. I had fun with playing "follow/chase the dog" but, I'm thinking that Barney and Dany aren't quite as enthusiastic...


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## Change

Hey, Al! Sorry I haven't posted any comments for a few days; I sort of overdid things around the place and had no energy! I did watch your videos, though, and per our PM'd conversation, here's my critique/comments.

One thing I'm noticing when you're riding, especially with the chest camera, is that you are holding your reins high. Try to keep your hands between the cantle and your belly button, with just a little slack in the reins between your hand and Barney's mouth. For stopping, sit back in the seat, legs pushed slightly forward, and a gentle pull toward your belt loops so you don't lift his head. For turns, 1st - light pressure on the outside leg, slight shift of hips and shoulder - look where you want to go - then ask with a twitch of your fingers on the inside rein, followed by a light pull toward your side belt loop, very similar to how your reins move when you are doing his lateral flexes. 

I also second *walk's *recommendation to sometimes just hang with Barney. Go out early, feed him, and just piddle around while he's eating. Let him enjoy breakfast and your and Dany's company. After he's eaten, give him a good brushing and a walk around the place. Let him say hi to the other horses. Turn him out in the big arena and let him run and buck and fart and play. I think you'll both enjoy it.

He seems like a happy horse that has a lot of try and wants to please you. I'm a bit jealous that you got such a good deal!


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## Alhefner

Thanks Change! I'll adjust my reins and reining accordingly! This is my "work week" so, I go see Barney after my 12 hour night shift each morning and that gets me to the ranch before feeding time.

This morning, I took Barney on a leisurely walk. I let him stop at the piles of dropped hay and get a few mouthfuls before going on. A couple of times, he balked at leaving the hay so, I simply walked him in tight circles then walked on with him in the direction we had been headed.

I think he got the idea pretty well when we got to areas filled with "extra special mustang treats".... weeds. I also think he really enjoyed being in new spots, smelling new smells, and seeing the other horses.

Tomorrow morning, I'll do about the same but finish up with putting him in the arena or round pen and saddling him up for a shot (15 - 30 min) ride.

I'll try to remember to take video....


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## Alhefner

*Secret mustang catching method, magic mustang treats, one rein stops*

Barney was mostly a good boy again this morning. Sure, he had a couple of moments when he REALLY didn't want to pass up hay that had spilled onto the ground but, we worked past that.

I wanted to see how Barney would do just standing on a loose lead line, not tied to anything, while being saddled. He handled it as if it was all "old hat" stuff!

Again, no bridle and bit...just his halter with the mecate tied as loop reins.

Once saddled, we worked on one rein stops at a walk. He's not perfect with it yet but he does do fairly well.

Here is the video from my chest mounted GoPro.


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## Alhefner

*Happy mustang.*

Well, the last time I had worked with Barney was Sunday morning. This is Tuesday morning and Barney was more than ready for some excitement.

He seemed a little hyper when I put his halter on and led him from his pen so, after letting him have a snack on his favorite weeds, we went to the round pen for about 20 minutes.

The video is just a bit of a highlight reel from that session. I had intended to get more video of our little ride BUT, I didn't have my GoPro running and missed out on that.

Barney stood fairly well while I saddled him up and he did very well on our ride in the arena. I even rode him up and over a dirt mound and had him cross over a little elevated (12" or so) pole. He's catching on to the one rein stop and is lighter when I use the reins for turns. He's still just in a halter...no bit... for now.


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## Change

I'll bet he'd have had a blast just turned loose to run, buck and fart in the arena for a bit! I love watching a horse just play when they get a real chance! 

Barney's coming along really good!


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## tinyliny

Al, I've got some thoughts on what I'm seeing with you and Barney, and just wondering if it's ok to offer some suggestions or , well, advice? if you don't want me to, I will totally respect your wish to just chronicle your explorations free of comment. so, here goes . . . 

well, I like to see Barney play up a bit. to me, he seems a bit sober-sided, so seeing him let go and move is a good thing. you want him to express some spirit. especially with him being a tiny bit sour of expression (the ears back thing, and the biting at your feet). getting him to just move out will help to 'knock him out of that frame of mind'.

you do a lot of work on him having him bend around in a static position, and slow down and circle and one rein stop . . . . all good things. However, if you work too much on these things, which are actions that compress and contain a hrose's energy, you will start to lose the "forward' in your horse. he strikes me as a horse that could end up having too much whoa, and not enough go. if you feel up to it next time , see if you can't get him to move out a bit more, either undersaddle in the arena, or free lunging. move him enough so that you feel there is no sucking back, no expression in his body of not wanting to move forward, or of resentment at being made to move forward.


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## Alhefner

tinyliny said:


> you do a lot of work on him having him bend around in a static position, and slow down and circle and one rein stop . . . . all good things. However, if you work too much on these things, which are actions that compress and contain a hrose's energy, you will start to lose the "forward' in your horse. he strikes me as a horse that could end up having too much whoa, and not enough go. if you feel up to it next time , see if you can't get him to move out a bit more, either undersaddle in the arena, or free lunging. move him enough so that you feel there is no sucking back, no expression in his body of not wanting to move forward, or of resentment at being made to move forward.



That's the pat where the GoPro wasn't recording! Yes, I do regularly encourage Barney to lengthen his walking stride and "move on out". I want a horse who is excited to go but also has a working set of emergency brakes...ya know, just in case a monster horse eating piece of plastic stats chasing us...

Barney is still learning the subtleties. When I start him out walking, it's usually very 'sedate' but I don't allow his gait to stay that way more than a few strides. I go ahead and get him into a fairly fast, energetic walk. He actually prefers that faster gait and will keep it until I ask for something else or until he is unsure of his footing like going over poles or down the side of a loose pile of dirt.


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## Alhefner

*NOT before or duing breakfast!*

It isn't unusual for me to show up and work with Barney before he gets his breakfast. I've been doing that a lot! Usually, it's no problem at all but today was different.

Catching, haltering, and leading Barney was all just fine when I got to the ranch. 

That changed though as soon as the guy doing the feeding fired up the ATV that pulls the hay wagon! Yep, Mr. Barney knows that sound very well by now!

Barney's mind, understandably, was very much focused on food since he hadn't had anything since finishing his supper the evening before. He was a hungry horse.

Still, I felt a need to do SOME work! If for no other reason than to prevent Barney from getting the idea that he could set the terms.

So, we did some lunging which he actually responded to very obediently.

Next, I wanted to have him saddled for a bit and got that going. This is where Barney tried to protest the most. Nothing severe at all. He was fidgety and thought about nipping a few times in protest but never managed to get that done... I'm pretty quick to smack his nose when he gives it a try. I did allow him to get some revenge on the leather of his breast collar while it was still just hanging loose and he bit the stirrup on the opposite side of where I was working...

Once saddled, I just lunged Barney for a bit more then, unsaddled him and led him back to his pen so he could eat. Once he was there, face full of hay, he made sure to check in with me for some petting before I left.

Not a really productive day but, every interaction between human and horse IS a training session and I take it seriously! Even if conditions are not ideal, like today, I at least try to prevent Barney from learning the wrong lessons even if I can't get in progress toward teaching him to be fully saddle trained.


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## Alhefner

Had a pretty productive day today. I waited until I was sure that Barney had had his breakfast before I started working with him.

Spent time in both the round pen and the arena. My objective was to get more time with Barney under saddle and for ME to work on learning to post his trot! I think I made some progress in both areas.,

After the day got hot, I decided to give Barney a bath... he HATED it! that horse acted as if he had never been wet before! It only took a little while before he wasn't scared of the hose or sprayer but, he REALLY didn't like me putting water all over him at all! Especially his legs and feet. As for the shampoo, well, that was just plain wrong! It smelled funny to him.

When I took Barney back to his pen, he was so disappointed with me that he simply refused to have anything to do with me... I guess he figured I had betrayed a trust.

Here's selected clips:


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## walkinthewalk

Barney seems to be a very compliant, willing to please horse. he is a goldmine in that regard

My Joker is like that and gets his feelings hurt on those rare times I have to yell at him, lol 

You've made a lot of progress with Barney


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## Alhefner

walkinthewalk said:


> Barney seems to be a very compliant, willing to please horse. he is a goldmine in that regard
> 
> My Joker is like that and gets his feelings hurt on those rare times I have to yell at him, lol
> 
> You've made a lot of progress with Barney


Thank you, walkin! Barney is very compliant and willing to please... mostly. He does have his moments.

We'll see if his pride is still hurt this morning!:falloff:


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## walkinthewalk

Alhefner said:


> Thank you, walkin! Barney is very compliant and willing to please... mostly. He does have his moments.
> 
> We'll see if his pride is still hurt this morning!:falloff:


Aw, he's still a kid, Joker will be 21 next month. Joker has learned to "huff" when he thinks I'm being stupid, lol

By this time, Joker has the drill down and gets annoyed if I come after him, to bring him in at night. He can't be in the pasture with Rusty because of old and serious injuries and Rusty will bully him. 

Joker has a total of five-or-so acres of yard and one side pasture in front of the house. He prefers to come in under his own steam, once he sees Rusty come in for the night. Sometimes I will go after him, just to watch him shake his head and huff at me for trying to treat him like a two year old:rofl:

Joker is a horse that doesn't take advantage when I give him liberties. Rusty, on the other hand, will take ten miles if I give him an inch.

It may take awhile for Barney to figure out he can have a sense of humor but he should be a lot of fun to play with, once you're done with schooling sessions


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## Alhefner

*Vet visit today.*

When I found Barney avoiding the snaffle bit by putting his tongue over it, I decided to have the vet come out and take a look at his teeth and general health.

So, the vet came today!

Yes, Barney does need to have hgis teeth floated and his wolf teeth removed but, the more immediate need, according to the vet is correction on his front feet!

One of the first things the vet saw while Barney lunged was that he was a bit lame on his right front. Further examination found that he had sole pain on both fronts and "medial-lateral hoof imbalance".

The vet also commented that the shoeing job that was done while Barney was under training at the Norther Nevada Correctional Center in Carson City was "terrible!". Just about everything on that shoeing job was not up to par.

The recommendation is to first correct his feet! That means correcting the trim, eventer type shoes, and pads for now.

Once the feet have been worked on and some time has gone by, the vet will re-evaluate to try and determine further course of action.

It is possible that I may have to return Barney to the BLM if his physical issues can't be straightened out. I absolutely DO NOT want to do that!

On a positive note, the vet and his assistant both were very impressed with Barney's disposition. He's a friendly boy and wants to be loved on by any and all humans who will do so. They were also impressed at how calm and easy going he was when Dany D. Rottendog came charging in to try and take advantage of the petting opportunity.

I think, hope, pray, that Barney's feet can be properly managed so that he won't have lameness issues! I really want to keep this horse.


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## Blue

*Al*, please don't worry just yet. I've seen some really horrible feet get turned around. Might be a good idea to have him evaluated by a foot specialist. A horse with a good disposition and willingness to learn is worth some effort to get his feet going right.


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## phantomhorse13

Did your vet have a recommendation for a farrier? A good farrier is worth his or her weight in gold.


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## Alhefner

Yeah, the fvet recommended the same farrier that the ranch already uses. He had high praise for that particular farrier too.

Also, the vet has podiatry as one of his specialties.

So, I'm hopeful! I really think with the right treatment, Barney will get past this and be a wonderful horse for me.

I asked about riding and vet vet had no concerns other than making sure he got pads if I planned on riding on rocky/stony ground until the feet toughen up.

The farrier will be at the ranch on Monday morning. I plan on getting him to do as the vet suggests with corrective/eventer shoes and #5 pads as well as some corrective trimming. There may not be much trimming though since Barney's hooves haven't grown much since he got the bad shoeing job...

I'm also thinking that part of the soreness in his soles may be left over from when he had thrush? I dunno...


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## walkinthewalk

1. Yes, a good farrier can get Barney's hooves back to where they need to be. Trouble is, nearly all farriers are Legends In Their Own Minds, so finding one that is truly worth their salt will be tough.

2. Remember when I asked if you could post a video of Barney at liberty? This explains why I thought something wasn't quite right but couldn't put my finger on it. Being the call-the-chiropractor-queen that I am, I gravitated toward that first.

It sounds like you have a terrific vet, I agree ask him for a farrier recommendation, although most times they don't like to do that. ,aye gwt your vet to come "tnru the back door" with an answer if he's hesitant


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## Alhefner

walkinthewalk said:


> It sounds like you have a terrific vet, I agree ask him for a farrier recommendation, although most times they don't like to do that. ,aye gwt your vet to come "tnru the back door" with an answer if he's hesitant


He came right out and recommended the farrier that the ranch already uses.


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## Change

My mare, Cally, had horrible feet when I bought her - to include two line cracks that were almost all the way to the coronet band. It took my farrier almost 6 months to get her back to where she didn't need her 'purple padded sneakers,' but now she's back to normal shoes. Now, her cracks have grown out, her angle is correct to her conformation and she hasn't given me a single day of lameness in the past year.

A good farrier is a dream!!


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## 7reining7training7gaining

You didnt do Star a disservice! That seems like the best way to train a horse to me. I remember my first horse and training her to do the exact same..


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## JulieG

Love your thread!

I'm sure you know this already, but in keep in mind it can take a while to correct hoof problems. I know some people expect everything to be fixed overnight these days (although you definitely don't seem like that type!) but it takes an entire year for a new hoof to grow, so correcting them can be a painfully slow process sometimes!


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## Alhefner

Thank you all for the encouraging words!



JulieG said:


> Love your thread!
> 
> I'm sure you know this already, but in keep in mind it can take a while to correct hoof problems. I know some people expect everything to be fixed overnight these days (although you definitely don't seem like that type!) but it takes an entire year for a new hoof to grow, so correcting them can be a painfully slow process sometimes!


I'm looking for improvement (not full recovery) over the next 3 to 6 months. If that's seen, then I'll be very happy and will continue to work toward further improvement.

From all my online research, I do believe that Barney's condition can be improved to the point that it's almost nonexistent.

The vet said "Well, yeah, he might be a little club footed but just slightly. The biggest problem he has now is being out of balance and that terrible shoeing job (from when Barney was still in the BLM program at the Norther Nevada Correctional Center). He's a little lame but he's not gimpy. A good program of trimming and corrective shoeing will probably clear it all up."

As for Star, the reason I said I did her a disservice is due to the fact that I had NO IDEA how to train a horse other than get on, stay on, and demand she do what I wanted...all without realizing that she needed to learn what it was I was trying to get her to do. that led to a lot of frustration for both of us at a time in my life when I was very impatient and tended toward being ill tempered.

I know more now, thankfully, and tend to be much more even tempered. Sure, Barney has managed to 'get my dander up' when he has tried refusing to do things he has been doing quite well in the past but, I take a deep breath and step back to proceed as if he was newly learning...that REALLY helps!

Spent the morning at DMV...recovering for a few minutes from that and will head out to work with "His Most Extreme Horseness" in a bit. got the GoPro working again with a new microSD card so, I should have video to post!


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## walkinthewalk

> The vet said "Well, yeah, he might be a little club footed but just slightly. The biggest problem he has now is being out of balance and that terrible shoeing job (from when Barney was still in the BLM program at the Norther Nevada Correctional Center). He's a little lame but he's not gimpy. A good program of trimming and corrective shoeing will probably clear it all up."


Boy, I like your vet:thumbsup::thumbsup:

FWIW, Rusty, my 22 yr old, 16.1H Tennessee Walker with the champagne-smooth running walk, has a genetic *less-than Grade One* club hoof. We know his is genetic because he is a direct descendant of Pride's Generator who passed varying degrees of club-footed ex on to many of his Get. He produced buku winners in the show ring so nobody gave a flip about that club hoof

To my point

Rusty has been with me 20 years and has spent 98% of his trail riding life barefoot because:
1. He is lucky to have hooves like a goat.

2. I am lucky that every farrier who ever trimmed him, *knew to Tei that club hoof according to what IT wanted, *.

Nobody tried to make it look like the other hoof.

Nobody tried to re-shape it to make it look pleasing.

3. What has happened over 20 years, is Rusty's right leg muscle has become half inch longer to compensate - verified by the vet. He still has never come up lame.

That means dead center toe cracks have become an issue on the club hoof and the diagonal rear hoof.

The brother who trims Rusty has an innate ability to keep the diagonal rear hoof completely free of toe cracks. He keeps the toe crack in the club hoof down to a dull roar and My job is to keep it cleaned out and sprayed with Bannix every few days or every day when it rains and we have some semblance of mud.

If the crack isn't kept vigorously brushed out and sprayed with an anti-fungal/anti-bacterial property, seedy toe will get up in there and breed like wildfire underneath the outer shell of the hoof.

4. Club hooves are also prone to thrush, regardless of ground conditions because those bacteria live in the ground.

As long as the hooves are given proper care by a farrier and the owner gives the hooves due diligence, the hooves should never be a reason for not keeping the horse

Ok, vet is on the way to X-ray Joker's hooves, I'm not checking this for auto correct something I know I will regret

I hope this info is of some use


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## Alhefner

Right off the bat, I want to apologize for the angle of the camera... pointed down like that. I need to find a way to modify the chest mount!

So, Barney started out being a very good boy but was soon distracted by people and another horse! It was a chore getting his attention focused on me but, we worked through it!

I am forming a bosal to fit his face and you can see me test the fit in the video. It still needs some more forming before I feel it will be usable.

Speaking of bosals and hackamores and such, I also have a new mecate to use with the bosal. Since the bosal isn't ready, I decided to try it out on the halter. Barney was NOT pleased! It has a tassel and that part seemed to bug Barney a lot. You can see him chewing on it in the video. I may cut the tassel off.

I rode him for about an hour after basic ground work. I kept Barney at a walk, though it was a pretty fast walk most of the time since I want to wait for his new shoes and pads before speeding things up again.

This day seemed to have Barney spooked overall. He was very "looky" and "fidgety" most of the time. Not sure what a lot of that was about since the ranch hadn't changed and everything he saw was normal stuff. May have been the wind or perhaps a scent on the wind? Who knows? As long as I can bring his focus back to me, it'll be OK.


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## Alhefner

Didn't do much with Barney today other than to take him on a walk around the ranch, letting him look around and munch on his favorite weeds. He was very curious about seeing things but not too "looky" or spooky.

I did lunge him a little just to keep the idea in his mind that I'm the one to direct his feet.

Speaking of directing his feet, the vet informed me that one of the tests commonly used is to observe a horse trotting on a lead in a straight line. Barney does NOT understand the concept!

It's very understandable. Barney has been taught to WALK on a lead and how to lunge on a line but, never has he been taught that the human might jog and that he was to jog along with the human. I tried it with him today and he was totally confused... I jogged, or tried to, and Barney just walked along as I pulled looking very confused by the whole thing.

Time to do more training! I think it'll take some serious time too. I'll have to do this gradually I think. Just speeding up my walk as I lead him around until, eventually, we're both jogging along...


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## Blue

Hahah, *Al*, never fear, I've had my old gelding since he was 12 and I had to teach him to jog along with me. Barney will get it.


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## walkinthewalk

I found the easiest method to teach a horse to trot beside me was to carry a buggy whip in my left hand, holding the lead rope in my right hand, keep walking then trotting forward.

I would simultaneously kiss and say "Sonny trot" while gently tapping the rump with the buggy whip.

The buggy whip is an excellent extension of the arm when properly used. Something I learned waaaaaay before Pat Parelli invented that expensive carrot stick, lollol

I also used it to keep Rusty from Pushing me tnru the paddock gate during morning turnout. I would tuck it under my right arm while I opened the gate. When I sensed him getting too close, I would take a quick step backward, poke him in the chest with the solid end and firmly say NO! Once again the long arm of law won out

When it comes to herd dynamics-type issues, horses don't always need a hard "kick". Sometimes just a nip from that two legged Alpha leader is enough


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## Alhefner

walkinthewalk said:


> I found the easiest method to teach a horse to trot beside me was to carry a buggy whip in my left hand, holding the lead rope in my right hand, keep walking then trotting forward.
> 
> I would simultaneously kiss and say "Sonny trot" while gently tapping the rump with the buggy whip.


Yeah, was thinking my 4' training stick, minus the string, might do... I'll have to experiment.


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## Alhefner

*Bareny got a trim and new shoes today.*

I was not able to be present while Barney had his farrier visit... 12 hour night shifts can be detrimental sometimes, but now Barney has shoes on all four feet with #2 pads on the fronts.

I left the vet's recommendations available to the farrier with the instruction to merge HIS best ideas with the vets.

The farrier found that one front hoof was a bit more than 1/4" out of level and the other was over 1/8" out of level. Also, the back hooves were showing too much chipping. Hooves were trimmed accordingly and pads put on the fronts. The farrier also said that Barney had some fetlock pain as a result of his hooves being out of level.

Due to MY OWN fault in neglecting to do a lot more messing with Barney's feet, Barney was not cooperative during the whole process so, the farrier administered some sedation. When I went to see Barney this afternoon, he seemed no worse for the experience.

Well, maybe a bit different. Barney was more "spooky" and "looky" than normal when I rode him in the arena. He was very suspicious of a few things that he had seen many times before so, perhaps the sedative was still messing with his thinker a bit. Of course, it was also "supper time" and Barney has developed a very good internal clock tuned into breakfast and supper.

Here are selected clips from this afternoon:


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## walkinthewalk

You're probably gonna block my comments, one of these days but:

1. The farrier said


> The farrier also said that Barney had some fetlock pain as a result of his hooves being out of level.


Yet Barney still willingly tries to please. He is an exceptionally stoic AND compliant horse that wants to please. It can be too easy to overwork this type of horse when they're in discomfort or pain.

2. If Barney had to be Aced to have his hooves worked on that means, you should be schooling him every single day in the art of peaceably holding all those "wiggies" up for cleaning, brushing, spraying stuff on them, so he knows how to properly behave for the farrier.

In all fairness to Barney, I suspect some of that misbehaving was due to the fetlock pain the farrier picked up on and many kudos to the farrier for being so astute.

3. Barney is still off on his back end. I caught a glimpse of his left side faltering at about 46 seconds into the video. I looked at it twice because the GoPro wasn't aimed directly on his butt.

I didn't get past that because you know my crybaby whiny story about paying for Gb time:beatup:

I really like Barney - that horse is a doll face - a trotting doll face (as opposed to gaited but a doll face nonetheless. Don't be too hard on him at the wrong times

You and Barney are going to be like my brother and his wife. They married straight out of college. I told my brother if they ever got divorced I would be in my SIL's side. Here we are, with my nephew now in college and my niece not far behind and I still say that to my brother, lollol

My point is, Barney is such a sweet horse and with his color reminds me a lot of my doll face Joker. I will take up a lot more for Barney than you and don't take it personal, lollollol


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## Alhefner

walkinthewalk said:


> You're probably gonna block my comments, one of these days but:


 Nah!


walkinthewalk said:


> 1. The farrier said
> 
> Yet Barney still willingly tries to please. He is an exceptionally stoic AND compliant horse that wants to please. It can be too easy to overwork this type of horse when they're in discomfort or pain.


Agree!



walkinthewalk said:


> 2. If Barney had to be Aced to have his hooves worked on that means, you should be schooling him every single day in the art of peaceably holding all those "wiggies" up for cleaning, brushing, spraying stuff on them, so he knows how to properly behave for the farrier.


Absolutely! I have been negligent!



walkinthewalk said:


> In all fairness to Barney, I suspect some of that misbehaving was due to the fetlock pain the farrier picked up on and many kudos to the farrier for being so astute.
> 
> 3. Barney is still off on his back end. I caught a glimpse of his left side faltering at about 46 seconds into the video. I looked at it twice because the GoPro wasn't aimed directly on his butt.


He tends to falter at times in the round pen. There are rocks mixed with the sand and they roll under his hooves. Also, in the arena, I noticed that he isn't very aware of where he's placing his feet at times.



walkinthewalk said:


> I didn't get past that because you know my crybaby whiny story about paying for Gb time:beatup:
> 
> I really like Barney - that horse is a doll face - a trotting doll face (as opposed to gaited but a doll face nonetheless. Don't be too hard on him at the wrong times
> 
> You and Barney are going to be like my brother and his wife. They married straight out of college. I told my brother if they ever got divorced I would be in my SIL's side. Here we are, with my nephew now in college and my niece not far behind and I still say that to my brother, lollol
> 
> My point is, Barney is such a sweet horse and with his color reminds me a lot of my doll face Joker. I will take up a lot more for Barney than you and don't take it personal, lollollol


I tend to take the side of whatever critter as opposed to the owner's side. MOST problems are due to a lack of knowledge/ability of the owner to perform proper training... I'm still learning the training techniques myself.


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## Alhefner

On my work weeks, I had been in the habit of going from work at 7AM to do my training with Barney. That meant that I usually arrived at the ranch about an hour prior to feeding time.

I got to thinking about that. It means that Barney had been between meals for a good 10 to 11 hours, depending on how long it took him to scarf down his supper the evening before. That's a long time for a horse to wait between bites of food!

So, today I got up early and went to see him before work. I think that made a difference.

Barney was less concerned with meal time and a bit more attentive. Enough so that I noticed anyway.

Not much time was spent just lunging. I got the saddle on him pretty soon and then got on in the round pen. Only a few minutes later, I took Barney to the arena.

We spent about an hour riding in the arena. There were a few "differences of opinion" but, my opinion won out over Barney's.

One of the things I'm working on is getting Barney to pay a LOT more attention to where he is placing his feet! Right now, he seems to pay very little attention to his footing until after he has stepped wrong and stumbled. I steer him over poles on the ground quite a bit to work on that issue.

The longer I rode Barney today, the more attention he paid to me. To my way of thinking, that means I need to start putting real miles under his feet. That starts immediately!

Here are selected clips from today. (don't ask what criterion I use to "select" the clips...I have no coherent answer)


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## Alhefner

It's been a productive few days working with Barney. Though I didn't ride him today, I did ride the previous two days.

Barney is pretty responsive to my cues in the halter. I also put the hackamore on him and he responded very well to that even though I had managed to let it lose the forming I had done and it didn't fit just right on his nose.

One thing I found though is that Barney seems to be getting more and more spooky. Yesterday, I took Barney for his first ride outside of either the round pen or arena. Even though he has walked through the whole area many times on a lead line, he seemed to think that me being on his back made everything different. Lot's of worries and a few spooks along with some belligerence... The worries and spooks we worked through and then battled through the belligerence issues until I got my way.

Today, I decided that it would be a good day to sack out Barney with a tarp since the wind was blowing pretty strong.

I was RIGHT! Truthfully, Barney wasn't nearly as afraid of the tarp as I had thought he would be. It was only about an hour before I was able to put the tarp all over him including over his head!

The last test with the tarp was to get beside Barney, shake it out so that the wind was flapping it around then let go so the wind blew the tarp past him... he didn't spook at that at all but just watched the tarp blow away with a lot of interest.

Here's video of the tarp session:


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## tinyliny

barney's such a nice horse. many horses would not be able to tolerate all that commotion and just stand there.he obviously does not worry about a tarp. he understands the "intention' in your body when you are waving it as meaningless noise. will he understand the intention if you are using it as a tool to move him away from you?
my point being, my impression is that you can go too far in desensitizing a horse, such that it soon becomes hard to motivate him to move anywhere when you want him too..


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## Alhefner

tinyliny said:


> barney's such a nice horse. many horses would not be able to tolerate all that commotion and just stand there.he obviously does not worry about a tarp. he understands the "intention' in your body when you are waving it as meaningless noise. will he understand the intention if you are using it as a tool to move him away from you?
> my point being, my impression is that you can go too far in desensitizing a horse, such that it soon becomes hard to motivate him to move anywhere when you want him too..


My posture is different when I want him to move so, yeah, I think he'll move when I want him to. I can swing the string from my stick and string all over him but, when I use it to get his feet moving, he feet move like "Right now, sir!"


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## Alhefner

I started early with Barney today. I got started about 2 hours before feeding time. Did a little round pen work just to get the high spirits settled a bit then saddled Barney for riding.

The wind was TERRIBLE! Of course, that simply increased Barney's "spooky" side. He found something about the horse trailers disturbing and then there was a mounting block near the round pen that hadn't been there before. 

Only ONE major spook while I was in the saddle... something about a juniper tree really scared him! It only lasted a few seconds but while Barney was quickly skittering off to the side, I was scrambling for the reins and trying to get my left foot back into the stirrup! At least he didn't have a specific destination in mind or else he would have tried bolting... actually, a bolt might have been smoother and easier to deal with!

The video is below and the one major spook is at the 8:44 mark.


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## Alhefner

I got to thinking about the very real difference in Barney's confidence between when I'm working with him on the ground and when I'm on his back in the saddle.

On the ground, I can bring scary things around him and he'll eventually become less scared of them or even not scared at all.

When I'm in the saddle, Barney becomes much more reactive and the scary things stay scary to him for a very long time.

One thing I think is that when I'm on the ground, Barney knows he can look to me for reassurance and, perhaps, even protection. I've seen that several times! When his long lead rope, dragging along beside him, looks like some long dangerous snake, he'll look to me to tame the monster. When the ranch owner was helping me desensitize Barney to the tarp, Barney kept coming to me for help and reassurance.

So, on the ground, I'm right there, where he can see me and come to me but, when I'm on his back, I'm not really in sight and he can't figure out how to come to me for help. Yes, I pet him and try to reassure him from the saddle but, it's not as if he can "move toward me" in his way of thinking.

Of course, I may be totally out to lunch on this idea too...


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## bsms

Alhefner said:


> I got to thinking about the very real difference in Barney's confidence between when I'm working with him on the ground and when I'm on his back in the saddle.
> 
> On the ground, I can bring scary things around him and he'll eventually become less scared of them or even not scared at all.
> 
> When I'm in the saddle, Barney becomes much more reactive and the scary things stay scary to him for a very long time...


That is completely normal. Every horse I've met has more confidence in me when they see me, particularly when I make a point of being between them and the scary thing.

This is a long quote from my own journal, but it explains something I think works very well - with enough time:



bsms said:


> "_If you let a horse look at things, then you are teaching him to be afraid of everything that is new and telling him that things should be looked at instead of ignored._"
> 
> All I can say is that this is not a true statement in my limited experience. My experience is with an exceptionally intelligent and willing (but spooky) Arabian mare, and a gelding who is 50:50 Mustang:Arabian.
> 
> Bandit arrived here having been taught you stop to investigate NOTHING. You cannot win a race if you stop to figure something out!
> 
> But something I noticed walking him on a lead line was that if I urged him forward, he would do it - but he would still consider the scary thing scary. I might be able to dominate him enough to get him "by", but I didn't get any "buy-in" from him that our course of action was safe.
> 
> If I gave him some time, and we checked it out together, then he would realize it was not scary. That was true of Mia as well, except it was almost impossible to dominate her into going by. But if you did, it was still scary.
> 
> My theory was that if I could show Bandit that my judgment was correct, and build up a track record of being right about what was scary and what was not, that he would eventually figure, "_Bob has been right 93 out of 94 times. If he says I don't need to be scared, the odds are very good that I do not_". In essence, my THEORY was that he was a sane, rational, thinking animal capable of learning trust the way a human learns it - by evaluating the track record of the person asking for the trust.
> 
> Initially, he went downhill and became spookier. He got worse, not better. He began spooking at things he had passed earlier. I chalked it up to him learning it was OK to talk to me and tell me something was scary. So I continued.
> 
> I've now owned him over 8 months. And he is much more likely to forge ahead on a loose rein now than he was when he arrived. More and more, it seems as if my theory is proving out: He is learning to trust my judgment. Not my dominance, but my judgment.
> 
> That may not be the best approach with a ranch horse. Ranch horses generally don't get 8-12 months to figure things out. They need to go and get the job done now, or very soon. And a thousand miles of riding will cover a multitude of sins. Enough sweaty blankets, and the horse WILL figure things out.
> 
> But like I said, I want it all. I want a horse who trusts me, but who also feels free to tell me he is too tired, or the footing is bad, or he THINKS there is a snake nearby, or whatever. My joy in riding is not getting from A to B, but going from A to B with a friend. That is very different from a horse being trained for ranch work, or to go to busy shows, etc.
> 
> I am not, in any way, trying to suggest my way is the only way. I am certain it is not! It also may not be the best way, and it certainly takes a lot longer than other methods people use. But it is consistent with my goals and my philosophy of riding. If I continue to see improvement, then it will be worth every day, week, month and even years of effort.
> 
> And while I am eccentric, I find myself sometimes posting "_What HAS been done, by definition, CAN be done!_" When I'm told you MUST use a "snaffle only" approach until the horse's behavior is flawless - well, I violated that rule and had great results with Mia - and "_What HAS been done, by definition, CAN be done!_" I'm trying a different approach that what others have told me in teaching a horse confidence. So far, the results are looking promising - and "_What HAS been done, CAN be done!_"
> 
> The oxcart story, for anyone who hasn't seen it, is this (from Tom Roberts):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> Dang! Nearly 100 years ago!
> 
> That story gave me better advice on how to handle Mia than anything else I've seen or read. It has worked very well for Bandit, as well. When a friend took Bandit out in the desert (with the other two horses) a few months ago, I told him not to try to force Bandit past something, but use any available room to the side or a little extra time to allow Bandit to get past willingly.
> 
> About an hour later, Bandit saw something in the desert he didn't like. My friend tried to push bandit past, and Bandit bucked hard enough that the 6'3" guy ended up in front of the saddle horn! But being 6'3" tall, he got back on the correct side soon enough.
> 
> Remembering what I had told him, he did a small detour thru the desert to get around the scary thing. Later, when they came back, Bandit passed the scary thing with nothing more than a contemptuous glance. At least with Mia (and now Bandit), giving the horse enough freedom to go by on a slack rein helps get the horse's "buy-in". A very scary thing, like the bullocks carts, might need a dozen trips by - with reduced detours.
> 
> If there is not room for a detour, then going by SLOOWWWLY seems to work. It may take 5 minutes to get by the first time, then 1 the next, and then Bandit will stroll by the third time.
> 
> OR...trot past. A trotting horse is already going faster, so it can afford to go closer to a thread and still be able to get away.
> 
> There is more than one way to crack the nut. But the key, for how I want to ride, is to do it in a way that the horse ACCEPTS it, rather than going past because I'm scarier than the scary thing.


It has been almost 6 months since I wrote that. Bandit has almost reached the point of spooking in place. If he is startled, he might swerve 45 degrees away from the scary thing, or take one jump forward. But then he stops, and waits for my input. 

When I first started this approach, I had to dismount several times a ride and take 5 minutes to show him, very slowly, that the scary thing was not scary. And for the first 6-8 weeks I tried it, he became SPOOKIER, not calmer - just like people predicted.

But then we turned a corner, as he realized I had been right 73 times in a row. Then we entered a phase of 'Are you OK with going around the scary thing?' We did that for some time, making detours as needed to allow Bandit to walk past. But over time, I found I could just ask him to stop when worried, and we would look at it together. Then, after 60 seconds, he'd be ready to go forward, often without a detour.

As time went on, he started moving forward after 20 seconds.

Now, he MOSTLY pauses. We look together for 10 seconds, and then go on by. Mostly. Yesterday, some kids were doing wheelies in their ATVs. We watched them for about 5 minutes from a couple hundred yards away, and Bandit obviously found them VERY scary. So I dismounted, and slowly - very slowly, because he was very scared - we approached the snorting, bucking monsters. As it turned out, the kids stopped riding just as we got close...with the scent of two stroke engines heavy in the air.

But that may have been 193 times out of 193 where I was proven right, and the scary thing that didn't scare me wasn't nearly as bad as he thought. And out in the desert, away from the horrible human stuff, I can increasingly just point him at something and go.

During my 7 years with Mia, I never really understood just how deep her fear went. Bandit was actually a very fearful horse too, when he arrived, although a very dominant rider was able to often force him past things. But after a year of work, he increasingly just clicks his ears forward and goes. And when he startles, he increasingly just braces his back, then stops and waits for my advice. My wife and daughter both believe he is going to end up as steady a horse as Cowboy and Trooper.

And in the desert, he is actually BOLDER than Trooper. Give Trooper a challenging climb out of a wash, and Trooper may balk some. He did so 3 times a few days ago, when I was riding him and he didn't want to push through some brush to climb out. In the same situation, Bandit would have paused, assessed, then started forward - eagerly. He seems to like a challenge.

Also FWIW - I think mustangs are kind of like mules. They have a strong self-preservation instinct, and (more so than some stock horses) like to know WHY they are doing something. You have to prove yourself trustworthy, but then have a horse who will obey because he believes in you - and who therefor obeys with a will and who responds with more "try". The mustangs I know all are very much 'thinking horses'. They have confidence in their own opinion, and therefor need to learn through experience that your opinion may be more reliable than theirs. Until then, they may accept, but won't be enthusiastic about it.


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## Alhefner

bsms said:


> That is completely normal. Every horse I've met has more confidence in me when they see me, particularly when I make a point of being between them and the scary thing.
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> Also FWIW - I think mustangs are kind of like mules. They have a strong self-preservation instinct, and (more so than some stock horses) like to know WHY they are doing something. You have to prove yourself trustworthy, but then have a horse who will obey because he believes in you - and who therefor obeys with a will and who responds with more "try". The mustangs I know all are very much 'thinking horses'. They have confidence in their own opinion, and therefor need to learn through experience that your opinion may be more reliable than theirs. Until then, they may accept, but won't be enthusiastic about it.


Good input! Yep, Barney does have a big self preservation instinct even though he was born in captivity at a holding facility.

Yesterday, I knew quite well that he was worried about the juniper tree and got him close to it before stopping to check it out facing it straight on. THAT is when he finally exploded. So, in my hindsight, I probably got him much closer to the "scary thing" than I should have.

Today, I'm going to go do some more "sacking out" then try to get in a ride. I'll be more attentive!


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## tinyliny

that's the first time I've seen Barney act spooky , beyond being a bit nervous about the gate to the round pen. he's really quite a level-headed guy. that sort of spook you showed with the Juniper tree is not so unusual. I bet you felt it coming, when he paused. it's a very fine line when a horse stops like that, whether to make them continue forward, or allow them the time to look at the item. you have to know that if you do allow them the time, the probability that they'll react is high, and more than likely it will be either a hard swing away from the object, or a rapid back up. you have to be ready to counter that, meaning be ready to stay balanced , and have your reins short enough that you can shut down the swing pretty fast.

I was wondering why you are riding him in a bosal and not a bit?

also, after he has recovered from the initial spook, you can start working him back and forth near the scary thing (ST from now on). not forcing him any closer than he's ok with, but jsut going past the ST as if it's a la-de-da nothing. as you do, you kind of just find yourself getting a bit closer. if the horse wants to bend his body away from the thing, you can let him, but if it gets really big, then turn him with the inside rein and take a new tack/pass. when the hrose passes the ST without a defensive bend in the body, then it means they are feeling ok about it, and you just ride on.


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## Blue

*Bsms*, very well put! And I agree completely. However I would like to add something. I know full well that I'm not as experienced as so many others here, but I've worked with a handful of horses and for some reason I usually end up with someone else's problem. I've found that it helps to remember that all horses, like children, are different. They learn at differing rates and they absorb information in different ways.

My old gelding, Bart, would play games. He'd pretend to be afraid of something because it was something to do. His mind had to be constantly engaged. When he realized that I wasn't falling for it, he'd sigh and give up. On to the next game.

The mare I ride now, Lacey, truly is cautious of just about anything new and does indeed look to me for guidance. She wasn't always so cooperative. When I first got her, the flight instinct was very dominant. However, a month or so and she was beginning to understand that I wasn't going to beat her into submission, but I intended to get my way. Over time we've developed an incredible communication that I trust implicitly. Now, (5 years) I learned her language as much as she's learned mine. If she refuses to go somewhere, theres a reason. If I give her her head, she'll find a way around and either back to the same trail or find another trail. She's a trail findin' Diva!

I guess my point is, I love to hear when someone is teaching their horse to trust them, because we are learning to trust our horses at the same time.

I've heard to bullock cart story before and always admired it. In fact I've used the theory more than once myself. It worked on every horse I ever applied it to, but worked faster or slower on each one. Again, they're all different and need different attention. Like children.

*Al*, love hearing your commentary. Really admire that you're trying to develop the schooling method that Barney needs and not necessarily the one that fits your schedule. For some reason I can't always watch your videos but the pics come through well. Go figure.


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## sarahfromsc

I love reading about your adventure with Barney, whom I do adore.

There are a few things I would do differently that may help settle him a wee bit, if you care to read them. 

I have an Arab that likes to shy from things that he has seen 1000 times and things he has only seen once. So I know how if feels to have a horse shy at a mounting block or a tree.......


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## Alhefner

tinyliny said:


> I was wondering why you are riding him in a bosal and not a bit?


Barney was avoiding the snaffle by putting his tongue over it. Since he came from the BLM program where state prisoners spend 3 to 4 months training them, I seriously doubted that he had ever had any dental work done and he might have been in some pain.

The vet verified that Barney really needs his teeth floated and his wolf teeth pulled but said fixing his feet was a higher priority.

So, his feet have been done and his teeth are up for the next vet visit.


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## Alhefner

sarahfromsc said:


> I love reading about your adventure with Barney, whom I do adore.
> 
> There are a few things I would do differently that may help settle him a wee bit, if you care to read them.
> 
> I have an Arab that likes to shy from things that he has seen 1000 times and things he has only seen once. So I know how if feels to have a horse shy at a mounting block or a tree.......


Thank you! All advice is welcome and I'll surely read it...I might not follow it all but, I'll read it knowing it's from someone trying to help


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## Alhefner

Well, I spent about 3 hours with Barney today. The first half hour was more desensitizing with the tarp. After a very brief initial bit of fear, the tarp became "old hat" to Mr. Barney. Nothing I did, including throwing it over his back and hind quarters, fazed him much at all. He only slightly protested when I dragged it over his head. Not scared, just annoyed.

So, I saddled him up, put on his bosal, and started riding in the arena. When that seemed to be going pretty well, even with his worrying about the horse trailers parked by the fence, I decided that a ride outside was in order.

I spent two hours riding through the brush at the ranch, following rabbit trails and roads. He had ONE very mild spook near some junipers but, it really was very mild...just a little bit of a sideways skitter.

During the ride, he went everywhere I pointed him, more on that below, even though I could tell he was worried. What really surprised me was that cottontail and Jack rabbits were jumping up and running from right under his feet and he didn't pay them the slightest bit of attention!

OK, for that "going where I pointed him" thing. There were a few times when he had a different direction in mind and we had a bit of a "test of wills" over it. That is something I refuse to bend to! When I point his head in a direction, he simply is not allowed to try and turn a different direction! At one point, I rode Barney up the hill to where his pen/corral is located. He wanted to go in and I wanted to ride back down the hill. I can't say it was a major fight or anything but, it took some forceful persuasion for sure. I even resorted to turning him in tight, rapid, circles a couple of times to get the idea across that our direction of travel was MY decision, not his.

However, I would say that today was a good day! Though Barney tried to be stubborn from time to time and even gave me a couple of very half-hearted bucks (more like simple front end jumps) when I insisted on having my way, I think we made good progress.


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## Alhefner

Went looking for a different kind of hackamore or a sidepull bridle... ended up getting some soft leather and wrapping the nose portion of the bosal instead. It seems to be working!

So, today's ride went very well! Barney wasn't exactly enthusiastic but he did try to be a good boy most of the time.

We rode through the sage brush, following rabbit trails and doing a LOT of turning so that Barney had to keep thinking and paying attention to me.

One point of contention that has come up recently is that he has become "corral sour" so that whenever I ride him up the road to his corral, he wants to stay right there.

Of course, I can't have that! What I did was ride him to his corral and for as long as he resisted leaving, made him walk with me in the saddle the entire time we were there. No rest, no hay, no lounging in the shade, just MORE WORK.

By the second time, Barney had started to figure it out and it took much less time before he was willing to leave the corral area.

Here's the chopped up version of today's ride video:


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## Alhefner

Also posted, word for word, on the "Horse talk for people over 50" thread:

Spent about 5 hours with Mr. Barney today. Everything started out very good. Rode Barney around the ranch area between the barn and the road. He did act quite concerned about "something" that I couldn't figure out but, he still went on willingly.

Worked on his "corral sour" business by riding him in his corral and the area right outside of his corral. He became much, much, more willing to leave his corral!

However, Barney did get so worried about whatever was bothering him that he refused to continue down the road past the barn area! I could get off and lead him down the road and he was OK with that. When the ranch owner walked along with us, and me in the saddle, Barney was OK wit that but wanted to stay VERY close to the ranch owner for reassurance.

If it was just me in the saddle, where Barney can't see me, he would adamantly refuse to go on down the road!

In the end, the ranch owner saddled his own horse and then Barney was FINE with going just about anywhere! We ended up going on a nice 1 hour trail ride. We went outside the ranch and up and down the hills. Barney stayed close to the other horse...usually trying to sniff his butt! Once, the other horse got a bit tired of Barney being so close and kicked back. Nobody got hurt and Barney DID NOT learn a lesson. I cut it short because the farther we went, the more anxiety Barney started to show.

On the lighter side, Dany D. Rottendog "got lost". She probably found some shade, laid down to cool off, then lost track of us. All I know for sure is that she suddenly wasn't within sight. I called...no dog...called some more...no dog. We were already basically headed back to the ranch and I figured that "Her Most Extreme Dogness" had most likely gotten tired and gone back anyway to lay in the shade and wait.

Well, Dany wasn't at the ranch when we got there. I unsaddled Barney and was leading him to his corral, still calling Dany, when I saw her bouncing through the high brush trying to find a way around the corrals to get to me.

Dany made straight for Barney's water trough! Barney seemed to be a bit concerned and gave Dany a friendly sniff just to make sure she was OK.


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## Alhefner

Here's a clip of how Barney was acting today:


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## Alhefner

Barney's seeming fear weighed heavily on my mind all last evening and still does this morning.

Part of my thinking swings toward "fear = reward" meaning that when Barney is acting fearful, if he keeps it up long enough, I stop trying to make him go somewhere and sometimes even get off of him.

To my human mind, his 'fear" is not the least bit rational but, that is my human mind... to a horse, it is most probably completely rational!

I'm not sure what I'll do today. I have a mind to work in the arena on maintaining gait... walk for as long as I say walk and at the pace I want, trot until I say not too trot, etc...

I also think about trying out the ride down the road again and if he is reluctant, seeming to be fearful, lead him down the road then get back on and see what happens when riding from that spot.

though I want to discount Barney's fearful thing as an "act", I can reconcile that with the fact that he was very willing to go if there was a "buddy" (human or horse) that he could see and get close to! That seems to indicate that his fear is real but, the presence of a buddy he could see reassured him so that he could keep going.

One thing I do know, however, is that Barney is again showing some little bit of disrespect! Yesterday, while quite a ways out on the trail behind the ranch owner on his horse, Barney whipped his head around and started to bite at my boot. He got a kick in the nose for his efforts though and didn't try it again. Other slight signs such as just deciding to stop lunging and walking in to me without me telling him to also point toward a bit of disrespect. I'll be working on that!

Anyway, getting ready to go out to work with him today. I start my 7 night work week tonight and the next 7 days will be limited in the time and energy I have to work with him... I'll try to make the most of it!


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## tinyliny

I think you are right in that it is more an "act" , though I wouldn't use that word, since horses don't think that concretely to actually 'act', play a part.

the fact that he didn't run away from the scary thing when you turne the other direction tells me that while he may have felt uncomfortable about going out, it was more a generalized anxiety, with a feeling of just plain not wanting to work.

I think Barney is a smart horse who does not want to work more than he has to. I think that so much of the time you are doing work that is slow, with lots of turning and stopping and things that are the opposite of what he lacks; forwardness.

and, as you've noticed, he is starting to show more disdain for you, beacue he is knowing that you haven't yet been able to really make him move forward when he'd rather not ( I say that last part because you've round penned him a few times when he was goosey, and bucky, and he moved, but it was him wanting to move anyway)

I am not sure how comfortable you are to ride him out really, really forward. I know that I would maybe be hesitant, because I am 58, fat and out of shape. I'd want a younger, fitter person to do it the first time. get out in the arena and get him really busting out when he's told to move. this can help to move Barney out of his head where he is thinking 'backward' (reaching backward to bite you, wanting to go back to the barn, wanting to go slower, resistant or ear pinning when you come to get him from the corral) all ways a hrose gets stuck in a resentful and resistant frame of mind. just the act of him running for a good ways, all out, can really help to break up the log jam in his mind and body.


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## Alhefner

tinyliny said:


> I think you are right in that it is more an "act" , though I wouldn't use that word, since horses don't think that concretely to actually 'act', play a part.
> 
> the fact that he didn't run away from the scary thing when you turne the other direction tells me that while he may have felt uncomfortable about going out, it was more a generalized anxiety, with a feeling of just plain not wanting to work.


 Agreed! I'm changing thing up!



tinyliny said:


> I think Barney is a smart horse who does not want to work more than he has to. I think that so much of the time you are doing work that is slow, with lots of turning and stopping and things that are the opposite of what he lacks; forwardness.
> 
> and, as you've noticed, he is starting to show more disdain for you, beacue he is knowing that you haven't yet been able to really make him move forward when he'd rather not ( I say that last part because you've round penned him a few times when he was goosey, and bucky, and he moved, but it was him wanting to move anyway)


More to work on!



tinyliny said:


> I am not sure how comfortable you are to ride him out really, really forward. I know that I would maybe be hesitant, because I am 58, fat and out of shape. I'd want a younger, fitter person to do it the first time. get out in the arena and get him really busting out when he's told to move. this can help to move Barney out of his head where he is thinking 'backward' (reaching backward to bite you, wanting to go back to the barn, wanting to go slower, resistant or ear pinning when you come to get him from the corral) all ways a hrose gets stuck in a resentful and resistant frame of mind. just the act of him running for a good ways, all out, can really help to break up the log jam in his mind and body.


I had planned on working on WTC today BUT, there were people going out into the hills so, I joined them since Barney does need the experience. It was a productive ride and I'll post more on that later.

It might be a few days before I get the chance to work on WTC since I'm starting my string of 7 night, 12 hours per night, working... HOWEVER, I will get it done!

Oh, on that age thing, I'm 60 now but I'm pretty sure I can deal with whatever Barney decides to try to dish out...so far so good, right?


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## Alhefner

I had planned on working with Mr. Barney on obedience in the area. Getting him to walk, trot, canter with leg pressure but, other things came up!

When I got to the ranch, I found out that there was going to be a group ride! Since Barney does need lots of distance under his feet, I gladly joined in!

I did have time to do a little more work on his "corral sour" issues before the ride started.

At first, Barney was a bit confused with all the horses and riders but he quickly, and happily, joined in.

First, we did a short ride just on the ranch property since one of the riders is not in good health but wanted to ride that day. When he declared that he had had enough, the rest of us went on riding up into the hills.
Barney did very well but, he is more forward than the rest of the horses! He didn't want to be the leader but, his walk is just faster and more energetic. I had to continually bring him to a halt so he would keep a respectful distance from the horse in front.

Of course, me bringing Barney to a halt got on his nerves and we had several disagreements concerning that! Also, in some areas, he saws things such as old foundations, stumps, guy lines for power poles, etc. that worried him and that made him want to be even closer to the other horses! However, he settled down toward the end of the ride and became a "good boy" again.

Most of the trail was up the side of a hill through the desert scrub. Barney likes to "get er done!" when it comes to going uphill so, I had to keep stopping, or just slowing, him. Going down hill, if the footing is sort of soft with no rocks, he also likes to get on down. Crossing gullies? No biggie!
I'll have video posted later on tonight or early morning.

Oh, on another note, Dany D. Rottendog managed to NOT get lost today. She did take every opportunity to find shade and lay down for a bit but, I kept an eye on her and when we got a ways ahead of where she had bedded down, I would call her and she would come trotting up to find the next spot of shade. By the end of the ride, "Her Most Extreme Dogness" was one tired puppy!


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## tinyliny

it's great that you had a chance to go out with others. I bet it was very refreshing for both of you. it can be so frustrating when your horse is up on the hind end of the horse ahead. I often go out with a friend who has me ride one of her two horses. this guy wants to climb on top of teh horse in front, and it's an endless battle that frustrates us both.he can't walk fast enough to keep up, so wants to either trot racing up, then stop on her butt, or jig slowly. I usually give in and let him jig. I am not good at that sort of thing and it's not my job to train her horse. I go with the flow, being fundamentally lazy.


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## Alhefner

Barney can walk very slooooooooowly when he wants to. That's usually the first thing when I start working with him but, as we work, his interest seems to increase and he starts "stepping out smartly".


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## Alhefner

Here are selected clips of today's ride:


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## Change

Since you're going to be working for the next 7 days, maybe you can just turn Barney out in the arena one or two mornings and just let him run, buck, fart and be horsey, without being lessoned? If every single interaction you have with him results in 'work,' resentment can build up!


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## Alhefner

Change said:


> Since you're going to be working for the next 7 days, maybe you can just turn Barney out in the arena one or two mornings and just let him run, buck, fart and be horsey, without being lessoned? If every single interaction you have with him results in 'work,' resentment can build up!


I actually do that already but, he treats it just as if it's only another corral. No shenanigans, no carefree running around, no bucking or kicking up his heels. However, he does snack on the weeds along the fences...


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## Foxhunter

Interesting journal - well done.

There are several things I have noticed in your videos, which are good as the camera shows most. The forst of you apsaddling and riding there were several mistakes. Firstly I would always have a rope on the horse, secondly, the pad had slipped way back and you just put the saddle on without moving the pad well forward, this meant that the front of the saddle did not have any pad under it and was set way to far back. You did make an attempt to pull the saddle forward which you should never do as this ruffles the hair the wrong way, always slide back rather than drag forward. 

The other thing is how busy your hands are, always waving about and way wide and high. 

When Barney sees something even if nothing is there, you have to be firmer with him and say, "Hey Buddy, I'm saying things are OK so go and go now." Horses often think they see a dragon under a leaf and if the handler doesn't say it is OK in a firm manner then the horse believes in that dragon and sees more and more. 

All in all there is a great improvement in your body language in the round pen, because of this Barney understands more clearly, well done you, many people just do not understand the importance of this. 

Look forward to seeing more and an improvement in you hands!


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## Alhefner

Foxhunter said:


> Interesting journal - well done.
> 
> There are several things I have noticed in your videos, which are good as the camera shows most. The forst of you apsaddling and riding there were several mistakes. Firstly I would always have a rope on the horse, secondly, the pad had slipped way back and you just put the saddle on without moving the pad well forward, this meant that the front of the saddle did not have any pad under it and was set way to far back. You did make an attempt to pull the saddle forward which you should never do as this ruffles the hair the wrong way, always slide back rather than drag forward.
> 
> The other thing is how busy your hands are, always waving about and way wide and high.
> 
> When Barney sees something even if nothing is there, you have to be firmer with him and say, "Hey Buddy, I'm saying things are OK so go and go now." Horses often think they see a dragon under a leaf and if the handler doesn't say it is OK in a firm manner then the horse believes in that dragon and sees more and more.
> 
> All in all there is a great improvement in your body language in the round pen, because of this Barney understands more clearly, well done you, many people just do not understand the importance of this.
> 
> Look forward to seeing more and an improvement in you hands!


Good suggestions. The camera is on the lower part of my chest and is a wide angle lens.

Today, I went to see Barney before going in to work. In an effort to build his confidence, I simply led Barney out into the open brush so he could graze while looking around. I also incorporated some "sending" lessons with it.

He did pretty good. Oh, he was apprehensive and wanted to be close and there were a couple of mild spooks but, overall, he did well.

I spent about an hour out in the brush with him.

Here's a short video...


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## Alhefner

Well, I'm not sure where I'm going with this particular post. Just doing some reflection.

Today, there was a lot of smoke in the air from wildfires to the west. Barney was a lot more antsy and a lot more "spooky".

I let him use up some adrenaline in the round pen... my idea was just having him at a nice easy trot but HIS idea was a full out gallop! So, gallop he did until he calmed down enough to trot. He was still in hyper alert mode though.

Anyway, I just spent time with him today and let him hang out in the arena. I did work on leading Barney around and he insisted on being very close much of the time.

All of this has me thinking, probably over thinking. To my mind, I'm somehow rewarding Barney's anxiety and that causes him to have even more anxiety.

I'm at a loss figuring out just how I'm rewarding his anxiety so, I'm also at a loss on how to go in the other direction!

Well, thanks for reading this far! Here are selected clips from today only showing Barney spooking and being anxious...oh, and one "Barney fall down...go boom"...


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## tinyliny

I see what you mean about him being spooky. that is spooky, for sure.

you definitely do not want a hrose that tries to get close to you, or climb on top of you when it is scared. this is a very bad and dangerous behavior. I know it's hard to know when he's going to do it, but one thing is that if he's looking elsewhere, you do not want to be close to him. never walk up and pet the sholder of a hrose that is looking intently off somewhere on his other side. if he spooks, he'll spook aaway from that thing, into you. I really like to have at the very least one eye of any horse I am about to pet, and even better, two eyes and ears.


every time he starts looking off, and you are waiting for him to get his fill, and feel better about it, you are not supporting him. you are, in effect, leaving him on his own to deal with it. everything freezes while you wait for him to decide what to do. that leaves him with the anxiety of making these decisions. that leaves him with the burden of being the leader.

you may think that just allowing him the quiet to look and consider the scary thing will make him less spooky, but I think when he does this repeatedly, he is feeling lost. you need to be in there giving him things to do that are more important than his need to keep track of every puff of wind. 

he's going to spook, and he's going to swing sideways, and the way that you make a not big deal about is right. you just pull him up and go on. that's good, but, you could send him through the gate a few more times, or, spend some time backing him up until he's really giving you two eyes, or really send him somewhere, then draw him back. keep him busy. not in a panicked way, but in a steady and firm way. 

I know it's easey for me to say all this to you, as my lease horse rarely spooks. But, when he does, it's VERY hard to get him back to me. he'll try to back right out from under his saddle, and that ol' guy can back up fast. I find it very hard to get him back to being in front of my leg. but, if I were to keep him busy ahead of the spook, when he was freezing, and telling me he was about to burst, then I might have less problems.


just all in all, Barney is needing more clear, firm leadership. he will actually feel better with less allowing him to look and think about things.


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## Alhefner

tinyliny said:


> I see what you mean about him being spooky. that is spooky, for sure.
> 
> you definitely do not want a hrose that tries to get close to you, or climb on top of you when it is scared. this is a very bad and dangerous behavior. I know it's hard to know when he's going to do it, but one thing is that if he's looking elsewhere, you do not want to be close to him. never walk up and pet the sholder of a hrose that is looking intently off somewhere on his other side. if he spooks, he'll spook aaway from that thing, into you. I really like to have at the very least one eye of any horse I am about to pet, and even better, two eyes and ears.


Absolutely! I've got to find a way to work on that! First, working on changing my own actions and then changing his so that there is a safe distance!



tinyliny said:


> every time he starts looking off, and you are waiting for him to get his fill, and feel better about it, you are not supporting him. you are, in effect, leaving him on his own to deal with it. everything freezes while you wait for him to decide what to do. that leaves him with the anxiety of making these decisions. that leaves him with the burden of being the leader.
> 
> you may think that just allowing him the quiet to look and consider the scary thing will make him less spooky, but I think when he does this repeatedly, he is feeling lost. you need to be in there giving him things to do that are more important than his need to keep track of every puff of wind.
> 
> he's going to spook, and he's going to swing sideways, and the way that you make a not big deal about is right. you just pull him up and go on. that's good, but, you could send him through the gate a few more times, or, spend some time backing him up until he's really giving you two eyes, or really send him somewhere, then draw him back. keep him busy. not in a panicked way, but in a steady and firm way.


I think you're onto something here! I'll most certainly work on making sure I have something for him to do OTHER THAN dwelling on the "scary thing"!



tinyliny said:


> I know it's easey for me to say all this to you, as my lease horse rarely spooks. But, when he does, it's VERY hard to get him back to me. he'll try to back right out from under his saddle, and that ol' guy can back up fast. I find it very hard to get him back to being in front of my leg. but, if I were to keep him busy ahead of the spook, when he was freezing, and telling me he was about to burst, then I might have less problems.
> 
> 
> just all in all, Barney is needing more clear, firm leadership. he will actually feel better with less allowing him to look and think about things.


I found out, and you might have seen in a previous video, that Mr. Barney can turn tail in a real hurry! THAT one was MY FAULT I think, after considering your advice above, because I did let him sit and look things over! Instead of looking it over and determining that there was no threat, the threat actually grew in his mind to the point where he felt no choice but to "head for the hills!".

Thank you!


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## tinyliny

yes, but you sat that spook beautifully! knowing you can sit through that is a great comfort. and, sometimes a horse does need a bit of time to look at things. if you ask them to keep moving, and they feel like your pushing them forward feels like them being pushed up against a brick wall, especially a green horse, then you WILL get an explosion. especially if you are not confident enough in every inch of your being to import total confidence on their part. 

becuse I know that I cannot always impart that level of confidence in a horse that he will let me push him past the place where he wants to plant his feet and think, then I do allow him to look, but I am ready. and, I don't push him closer to the scary thing that he is a milimeter from the explosion. if he needs to stop , look and consider, I'll do it a tiny bit sooner, before he's at the brick wall. he may look, but I do not allow him to swing away from the scary thing, so I have my reins in a way that I can very quickly shut down his attempt to swing away from it. he must either face it, or, he may walk past it on a tangent. 

if that, (walking past it on a tangent), I do not allow him to dash past it, nor bow out so widely that he's fleeing it going sideways. and, I do not used a hard leg to 'push' him into the scary thing if he is bowing. pushing him against something he cannot tolerate only makes things worse, IMO. I'd use the rein to disengage his hind and get him facing it, then take a different tack to walk at an angle past the scary thing. the idea being to keep his legs moving, but not fleeing.

again, really strong riders will have so much clarity and confidence that they get the horse really committed to going forward and they don't have these sticky spots. I applaud that. I know myself as a rider, and know that I can't fake that til I make it. I have to finesse what I cannot ride out.


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## tinyliny

and one more thing. like you said, 'give him something to dwell on other than the scary thing"

my trainer talks a lot about how a horse 'feels' inside. she will work very firmly with a hrose, if necessary, but in the end, the horse will feel better inside. it's the LAST feeling that you put in a horse, that he 'dwells on', that is important.

if he's scared, and shies and he feels a burst of terror, and you do nothing more than speak words of soothing praise, "good boy, you're ok", it isn't enough to change the fear that was there. horse are very mercurial. they change quickly, but I think that he needs a bit more to change that residual feeling of fear. having him DO something, that he's successful at, where he follows your direction and earns a reward of a relase of the feel on the lead rope, . . THAT is a feeling of , shall I say, 'satisfaction" for a horse. he is better left with THAT as the last feeling associated with any puff of tumbleweed that spooked him.


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## Alhefner

Yes, giving him something to do that he knows how to do! I've been working on "sending" and he does know what it means when I lift a hand, holding the lead rope, and point. He knows he is supposed to go in the direction I'm pointing. So, that's a small, but significant, thing I can get him to do.

Coincidentally, I found this on Youtube!


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## tinyliny

That's nice. I'd want better control over the horses shoulder. Meaning be better able to make sure I can move that shoulder off and away from me, at any time. The added benefit being when the horse moves his shoukder up and off, he puts a bend in his body, which is a good thing for relaxation and attentiveness. Horse will very often lean over onto something with the inside shoulder as a very subtle form of aggression. Awareness of this is important


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## Foxhunter

I fully agree with Tiny over the way you are allowing him to make the decissions. 


When I am with a horse I expect it to have its intention on me, if I were leading your horse and he did that staring into the distance on high alert, I would have shaken the rope, to get his attention, if that hadn't worked, the rope would have been jerked. I would also, at this stage never let him have as much rope as it gives less control. 

There is one part where he is looking into the distance and you actually pet him - this is rewarding something you don't want. It is telling him it is OK to be tense and alert.

With humans if there is a panic situation and someone takes control amd barks out instruction, people are less likely to stampede, it is much the same with animals.


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## Alhefner

Foxhunter said:


> I fully agree with Tiny over the way you are allowing him to make the decissions.
> 
> 
> When I am with a horse I expect it to have its intention on me, if I were leading your horse and he did that staring into the distance on high alert, I would have shaken the rope, to get his attention, if that hadn't worked, the rope would have been jerked. I would also, at this stage never let him have as much rope as it gives less control.
> 
> There is one part where he is looking into the distance and you actually pet him - this is rewarding something you don't want. It is telling him it is OK to be tense and alert.
> 
> With humans if there is a panic situation and someone takes control amd barks out instruction, people are less likely to stampede, it is much the same with animals.


Agreed! I wasn't aware of the ramifications at the time but, after getting advice, guidance, and in further research, I'm convinced. The way I reacted is a path to disaster! Starting with my next session with Barney, that changes!


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## Foxhunter

With these journals we try not to make critical remarks as it is the tale of a journey, what I really like about you is how you are taking advice that is offered, not blindly, checking it out and then giving it a try.


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## tinyliny

yes, please feel free to tell me, NOT NOW, Tiny, if I go off with too much advice. it's a failing of mine, I know.


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## Alhefner

It took a while to get my video ready while at work. This is from the afternoon of 07/26/2016.

Today, I was going to start on rehabbing Barney in the "spook" and "fear" area using the ideas and techniques learned here and on Youtube. I had about 1.5 hours before work to spend with Barney. It was about 100*F at the time but that was OK by me.

Never even made it out of his pen/corral!

My idea had been to start off with some very simple "sending" right in Barney's pen just to get things started. Almost immediately, Barney started acting up, refusing, and trying to drag my butt around his pen. It was, as far as I'm concerned, a major display of disrespect.

I stopped the "sending" lesson and I know that was rewarding bad behavior but, I changed the "plan" anyway to one of reteaching respect.

After retrieving the string/whip for the stick, I got back into Barney's pen and got started!

At first, Barney treated my getting after him and getting him to run as a game...tail and head high as he gleefully galloped off. 

It didn't take too long though before he realized that I was serious! I kept Barney moving from one end of his large pen to the other and didn't let him slow down until I was ready.

After about 30 minutes of almost continuous running, Barney was readily taking direction. When I did let him stop, he was apprehensive about me and looking at me as if to ask, "Dude, did you get into some crack?". When I let him approach, it was both eyes on me, head lowered.

The video is clips from that session. I added narration to part of it, sped parts up to double speed, and kept some at normal speed with sound intact.


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## tinyliny

Hard work but it seemed to end well.
When he does choose you, you want to make being WITH you the very best place he can think to be, so he'll hunt up that place. A lot of horses don't like having their face petted, so after you pet a couple times to establish his submission and acceptance , then try doing what you think he will really enjoy, be that a scratch on his withers or just standing quietly near each other.


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## Alhefner

Well, I didn't get to work with Barney yesterday due to me forgetting to set my alarm clock! Woke up too late to run out there before my night shift.

However, I did set the alarm clock and worked with Barney today!

He had a MUCH more respectful attitude! When I got to his pen, he first walked away and hid behind a juniper. It only took me calling a little before he came up to me, head down, to get his halter on.

Went straight to the round pen. Just to one side of the gate to the round pen is one "spooky place" and on the other side of the gate is a juniper that is "spooky". The objective was to get Barney out o-f hyper alert mode in those areas and focusing calmly on me instead,

I spent time sending Barney left and right, at the trot, all over the round pen. for a little while, when we got to the "spooky places", Barney would sort of bolt by but, by the end of the session, he was very casually trotting past them or even trying to walk by... I insisted on the trot!

We also worked on "back", "stand", and what a respectful distance is.

A whole lot of licking and chewing went on for that hour!

During the real training, I could tell that Barney was itching to be let loose so he could run, buck, and just let off some steam. for the last 15 minutes, I had his halter off and stood in the middle of the round pen "directing" him as he just had some fun.

At one point in the training, I needed something to drink and a smoke so, I left Barney in the round pen with halter and lead rope still on him. Barney has ALWAYS been highly suspicious of the lead rope when it is stretched out...he's fine with snakes though. Well, it didn't take long before Barney was trying to get away from the monster lead rope that kept following him around. He didn't seem to be super panicked so, I just watched from the comfort of the shade as he slowly figured it out. He was still suspicious of it when I finally got back to the round pen but, wasn't trying to get away from it any more.

All in all, a very productive day!


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## tinyliny

I remember one time my mare was acting all wierd, head high, cocked to the side so she could get an eye-ful of the ground. 

I said something like, "what's with you? you act like you just saw a snake' then looked down to see one just under her, off to the side. she had just seen a snake! (our snakes are harmless)


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## Alhefner

Started working with Barney after he had his breakfast this morning. the air is full of smoke from wildfires. It was also getting hot quickly and the wind was starting to gust up pretty hard.

Barney was pretty darned cooperative though! We worked again on his "spooky spots" in the round pen, did some "back up", and also let Barney just lunge to kick up his heels a bit. I saddled Barney in the round pen and, all of a sudden, the spooky spots that had been just about gone were back. Soooo, same exercises while wearing the saddle and by some miracle, those particular spooky spots kinda went away.

With the monsters vanquished in the round pen, it was time to lead Barney out of there and to the arena. Surprise, surprise, surprise...one step outside of the round pen and it's time to be afraid again! I got after him pretty darn sternly and he was suddenly no longer afraid...in that particular area.

To deal with the spooky spots in the arena, I rode Barney by them over and over again. Most of the time it was at a walk but I also had him trot at times. When we were in a "spooky area" I had Barney start going in circles, right then left, as soon as I saw his attention divert from me to the place he seemed to consider spooky. An hour later, I was hot and not appreciating all the smoke in the air, Barney wasn't nearly so spooky, and I called it good!

After I got his saddle and hackamore off then put on his lead rope, I led Barney out of the arena...yep, one step out of the gate and it was time to giraffe his head, step lively, and get close because he was "scared"... BS! I got after him for it, made him lower his head and do some backing up then calmly walk away from there toward his own corral.

There's going to be no more of this spooking at _ideas_ crap. Sure, if there is something tangible that he's worried about, I'll treat that differently but, this business of being "spooky" about imagined threats is going to result in me taking action to get his attention on ME pretty darned quickly and unquestioningly!


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## Alhefner

Well, I worked with Mr. Barney for about an hour today. As has been the theme lately, we worked on "spooky" places and reactiveness.

It was all done in the round pen where there are a couple of spots that Barney tends to find "scary". Actually, I tend to think of them as places where he indulges his imagination in order to avoid paying attention to me and the directions I'm giving.

As you can see in the video, he starts off looking very worried about those places and "reacts" to them. In one instance, he has a big "spook" and pulls the lead rope through my hands in his scramble to get away.

After the big spook, I decide that he really needs to work off some energy and that he needs reinforcement in a few areas best done off the lead line! Basically, I keep him moving (hard) and changing directions so much that he has no choice but to pay more attention to me than to the "spooky place".

Afterward, I let him rest on his own while I do the same. THEN, I put the halter and lead rope back on and we get back to the exercises!

By the end of the session, Barney is not nearly so worried about those places and doing a much better job of paying attention to my direction. 

The video below is clips from today. It's almost 18 minutes long but I simply could not compel myself to cut out more than I did!


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## greentree

Maybe it is the angle of the camera, but he looks seriously off in the hind legs...


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## sarahfromsc

I was thinking the same. I am rather suspicious of the hunter bump. It is very pronounce. If he is off and in pain it can make him spookier than if he wasn't uncomfortable.


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## Alhefner

greentree said:


> Maybe it is the angle of the camera, but he looks seriously off in the hind legs...





sarahfromsc said:


> I was thinking the same. I am rather suspicious of the hunter bump. It is very pronounce. If he is off and in pain it can make him spookier than if he wasn't uncomfortable.


OK, I don't know what you are seeing. Can either of you clear it up for me?


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## Alhefner

I reviewed the video and looked up "hunter bump". I think that the occasional appearance of that actually is due to camera angle and lens... camera is on my chest with a very wide, almost fisheye, view from below his back. Viewing the whole video, sometimes it does look like he has a pronounced hunter bump and at other times it doesn't. When I'm looking at Barney myself, I don't notice it. I'll look again!

As for "off" in the hind end, I don't know what I should be seeing there.


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## greentree

Watch about 2:15, onto about 2:20. It looks like he is relunctant to step off, and when he does, his leg does not swing freely. He also looked like he did not want to move his hind legs further on when he was free. 
It could just be the camera angle, though, if you don't see it.


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## Alhefner

greentree said:


> Watch about 2:15, onto about 2:20. It looks like he is relunctant to step off, and when he does, his leg does not swing freely. He also looked like he did not want to move his hind legs further on when he was free.
> It could just be the camera angle, though, if you don't see it.


Well, he didn't want to do any of that! I was putting him near a place he considers to be "very scary" and he tries to avoid it. Only over time does he settle down and get more willing to go into the "scary zone".


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## Foxhunter

I don't think he is sound, looks like the left hind to me. 

It is not a matter of the scarey corner and him Beijing g reluctant to go there, even if this was the case he would still bring his hind leg under him. 

Stand him dead square and look at him from behind, see if the pelvic bones are level, look at him from in front amd see if his chest muscles are equal in size. 

I would like to see still shots of him standing square from in front, chest down to his feet and from behind - if you can stand in a chair behind him amd take a shot looking down on him I might be able to see enough to help you.


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## Alhefner

A couple of people have expressed concern about how Barney is moving. So, I made this short video of him walking away from and toward the camera so folks could get a better look.


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## Alhefner

Barney was a very good boy today. Yeah, he acted up a little but it was very minor and I did correct him.

He also got a very brief bath! that horse was absolutely filthy...just the way he likes it! Now, Barney hates getting wet...*hates it*! He protested some but, overall, he took it all in good "suffering horse" manner...


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## tinyliny

I can see that he moves quite stiffly in the hind end, and I'd noticed this in other videos, too, but I think it is to do with his conformation. he has a very steep hip, that drops quite suddenly from the back, as if he has not loins in between. he doesn't step very far under himself with his hind legs, and is doing a bit of "plaiting"in the rear, and is pretty base narrow in the front, too. it is the long, lean way he is built. so called "rangy". but, he is a Mustang, and this is sometimes how they are. 

so, I don't know if his odd moveent in the hips is due to a back or hip being out of alignment, or just his conformation. he does, when you see the bath video, certaeinly have some fairly large hollowing in front of the pelvis, which makes the stifle joint look knobby. again, not sure waht to make of that.


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## Alhefner

He spent his first 5.75 years of life hanging out in a holding pen. Not much chance to do any "body building" at all!

Yeah, he's got no butt! Also, his top line is not to my liking and his back bone sticks up.

I'm hoping that with more work, plenty of groceries, and time, he'll build up a bit more.

As for swinging his hind legs under himself...yep, usually a short step there BUT I have seen him in a long gaited working trot that had his hind legs way up under his belly and his front feet way out in front...he can do it at times!


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## tinyliny

I would watch him, but not worry too much. 

when he gets over having he dental work done (he seemed a bit listless and my guess is he still feels a bit poorly due to that) , you could get him moveing over some ground poles, and doing some serpentines under saddle, and doing backing up and hill work, when possible. 

it is a bit hard to judge things with that wide angle lens. it makes it look like you have him on a very long line when you are doing the in hand work with having him change directions back and forth. it looke like he has enough room to swing his hind around and nail you as he's passing by, especially if you are laying a bit of a spanking on his rump, he might just whip out a hind leg and get you. it's important to keep the line short enough tath you can get his head around, so he can't line up to kick you. when he starts to lean over like he did, putting his shoulder in on you, this can be a way of a horse expressing his feelings of aggression toward a humn (or a horse. they use their shoulders quite a lot to push each other around)

when he was passing by you, between you and the scary thing, he leaned his shoulder in real close, line up his body (lost all beind in his body, ) and passed by you. you put your rope on his hind as he was passing, and that's where I thought he might kick you. better to quickly shorten up on on the leadline (also LIFT it up higher), and if you are going to put a rope ON him , aim at his shoulder, telling him to get that shoulder OFFF YOU!. he'll spin around so he's facing you with hiney out away, then just turn him and send him the other way. 

you got to keep that head bent in toward you at all times, or he can get lined up and then pull the rope out of your hand, like he done. (ask me how I know this? and how many times I had the pleasure of this experience?). use a short snap, snap of the line to get him to bend inward a little, the instant you feel him start to board up. the sooner you catch it, the lighter it will be and the less you'll need to do to remind him not to lean on the lead line, but to keep a wee bit of inward bend. this will make it very hard for him to pull the rope out of your hands.


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## Alhefner

The camera makes the rope look about 3X longer than it is. It's such a wide angle, think fisheye, that it distorts just about everything. I was only about 5' from the fence and that put me about 2 feet from Barney. 

As for putting the rope to his butt, that was either to keep him trotting OR to get him to swing his hind end away from me. Sometimes, when he moves close with his shoulder, that gets a smack too. It often seems like he's trying to get behind me, or on top of me, for protection from the "scary thing".


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## tinyliny

I figured it was distorted. it looks like it's 8 feet long!

yeah, I could see how he was bending away from the scary thing. what that says is that he finds that scary thing more important than you. so, my advice would be to have him prepared to go through the 'pinch' you had. if you know that he's going to dash through it, with a position that tries to avoid the scary thing as much as possible, either give him enough line that he 's pretty far from you to start with. or, . . . get him really bent toward you, looking at you, then ask him to step forward, through the pinch. he will likely still dash through, but having him start out bent correctly will reduce the amount of counter ben dhe ends up with. and, if he really counter bends and gets that shoulder too close, STOP him. right there. get a good hard wiggle on that rope and stop him from dashing through. you dont' have to waith until he has fiinished dashing. you can shut him down right then, even if he stays shut down for only a second.

it's a bit like sending a horse through a gate. if he runs through, you try to shut him down part way through and ask him to do it right. if he can't stop part way through, you stop him as soon as he's gone through, turn him, and ask him to go back trhough. over and over again, until he no longer rushes, no longer leans his shoulder in. to the point where he can actually stop and stand, part way through the gate, heck, maybe even back up through the gate. if he can do that, then YOU are more important than the scary thing.

I am occasionally handling my friends' two horses. one is a mustang. God, I love that filly. she goes through a gate nervous if you let her, but she'll stop or back or go slow. the other, is just plain scared of gates (the old "the electric fence bit me here once before'). the best I can do is get him to not dash through. I have not been able to get him to stop part way through, or back back through. he's not mine, so I don't worry about that sort of stuff. it's all gravy to me.


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## Alhefner

The "dashing by" between me and the scary place is my doing. He'll walk by but, according to the method I'm trying to duplicate, the horse needs to trot by.

As for gates, Barney is usually calm going THROUGH the gate then "spooks" as soon as he's on the other side. HOWEVER, today he decided to try to scramble through the arena gate. I made him go right back into the arena and come out calmly. It only took one time so, I'm pretty sure he knew he had messed it up.

I went back to ride Barney this afternoon about an hour before sunset. Barney was a real piece of work this evening! He was more spooky at the south end of the arena than usual and REALLY wanted to go hang out at the north end where there are two other horses in a corral.

He did really good with the new barrels I arranged and the poles I laid out. Did OK with the cones I set out but, at the south end of the arena he just got worse and worse.

Here's a chopped up video of that ride:


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## Alhefner

I've GOT to do a better job at this!


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## tinyliny

Everyone has an off day now and then. Take some time watching how some good western riders ride and then try to mimic them. 

Heading out on a ride. Haven't been in the saddle for more than two weeks. Hope all goes well.


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## Alhefner

tinyliny said:


> Everyone has an off day now and then. Take some time watching how some good western riders ride and then try to mimic them.
> 
> Heading out on a ride. Haven't been in the saddle for more than two weeks. Hope all goes well.


Doing the watching thing! Enjoy your ride!


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## Alhefner

OK, I may get a lot of differing opinions and feedback from this particular post. I know and accept that but, I'm putting it out here anyway.


I've come to the conclusion that Mr. Barney is the kind of horse that needs an "absolute" leader. One that simply does not put up with shenanigans.


The reason I say that is that every single time I let some small, inconsequential thing that's "disobedient" in some way slide, Barney steps things up! He doesn't just step things up a little, he tries to step things up a whole lot in becoming belligerent and tries to get away with a lot more.


Another thing I noticed is when I'm working on training him, he'll seem to actively look for things to distract him and get his mind away from the training..."Oh, look! Another horse three miles away!" or "Oh, look, another human over at the barn!".


If I were to put it in human terms, it's sort of like the class clown who wants attention but absolutely does not want to pay attention in the classroom or the daydreamer who looks for anything other than classwork to occupy his mind.


I can also sort of envision that Barney might have been a rabble rouser (sp?) during his time growing up in the BLM holding facility...perhaps even a bit of a bully. I can picture in my mind Barney going up to a higher horse, biting it on the butt, then running off with his tail and head high just for something to do. Of course all of this is pure speculation. All I have to go on is the personality and behavior I see emerging in Barney.


So, the question became, "What can I do about it? How can I help my horse?"


As with most things, the answer is to change myself! Easier said than done! I like to amicably get along with my critter crew. Sure, I'm the leader but, I also want to be their buddy too. I have to find a balance in there somewhere and that is what I'm starting to do in the video that accompanies this post.


Here is a very simplified list of how I feel I have to change:


1. Don't let disrespect slide no matter how slight!
2. Keep Barney's attention and focus. Be gentle as possible but as firm as needed to get that!
3. Use proven methods of changing Barney's behavior/reactions from negative to positive.


In the video, I had a couple of basic goals. One was to present a truly scary situation and get Barney to decide that it would be better to investigate and get over his fear than to keep spooking and reacting. Another goal was to start enforcing respect for my space! It's not fun having to dodge a horse when he's trying to jump on top of you! Finally, I wanted to start work on keeping his attention focused on me instead of the butterfly flitting around in the brush, human walking near the barn, other horse being led to her corral.


A bit about using the round pen. I do NOT think it is helpful to put a horse into a round pen just to have them do endless circles! In fact, I think that can be detrimental as there is little purpose served. HOWEVER, the round pen is my preferred place for training such as this because it doesn't have corners that act as traps to a horse. In their mind, they are not trapped and tend not to panic as much. I know that a lot of my videos DO show Barney going in circles but, there are transitions in there and the purpose is to teach him to mind my directions! It's to establish that I am the one calling the shots and that he is obligated to obeying my commands.


The video is chopped up to reduce length. I'm narrating part of it to explain what I'm doing and why. In this short session, it lasted about 30 minutes total, I have borrowed from a few very well known trainers who GET RESULTS.


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## tinyliny

no flack from me. only two bits of feedback;

never hit at your horse's face unless he has been aggressive with his head/face.


when your horse is 'searching" (like when he's sniffing/thinking about that tarp, do not rush him.


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## Alhefner

tinyliny said:


> no flack from me. only two bits of feedback;
> 
> never hit at your horse's face unless he has been aggressive with his head/face.
> 
> 
> when your horse is 'searching" (like when he's sniffing/thinking about that tarp, do not rush him.


I know that it looked like I was hitting at his face but, that wasn't really what I was doing. What was going on was that Barney diverted his attention when I wanted him focused on me so, I made a sudden, very aggressive, move to purposely startle him. It also had the effect of chasing him off but I would have been much happier if he had just startled and focused on me again.

The object here is to make his habit, and it has become a habit, of finding other things to focus/study on when he's tired of "school" much more uncomfortable than continuing to pay attention to me. Not sure how well it's working yet.


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## Foxhunter

Personally I think you are over doing the round pen. 

A horse soon gets bored of the same old thing day in and day out so will be more inclined to look around to find something more interesting. 

Also, if a person expects a horse to spook at something it will! 

Basically I am lazy! We had a load of loose shavings delivered for free and they were dumped between two gates to the fields. I needed to bring in two young unbroken horses. I couldn't be bothered to walk the length of the field to go through the top gate and then down the other field,myhrough into the bottom stable yard and up across the garden. I opened the gate led both horses through so they had to stand on the tarp covering the shavings, turn so I could close the gate, turn and lead them off onto the drive. 

As it was very windy and wet, the horses looked at the tarp but followed with very little hesitation. I had no doubt pts that they would so they did.


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## Alhefner

I most likely am over using the round pen. However, it is the best I have in order to keep Barney contained while doing that kind of training. He has learned that, when he wants to do so, he can easily pull me around on the lead line or lunge line. So, when he gets to where he wants to protest, he simply takes off until I'm either on the ground with rope burns or let go of the line.

THAT is about to change! Within the week, he won't even consider trying it any more. Then, I can take the training on a lead or lunge line into other venues.

As for simply walking him over the tarp, expecting compliance, wasn't gonna happen with Barney. He really needed to be sacked out with the tarp on the ground. drape it over his back or cover his head with it...no problem at all!


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## tinyliny

Alhefner said:


> I know that it looked like I was hitting at his face but, that wasn't really what I was doing. What was going on was that Barney diverted his attention when I wanted him focused on me so*, I made a sudden, very aggressive, move to purposely startle him.* It also had the effect of chasing him off but I would have been much happier if he had just startled and focused on me again.
> 
> The object here is to make his habit, and it has become a habit, of finding other things to focus/study on when he's tired of "school" much more uncomfortable than continuing to pay attention to me. Not sure how well it's working yet.



I understand the approach you are taking. it's exactly what I do, too. but, when you do something to interrupt his outward thinking (away from you), do only as much as to draw him back to you. it might be as little as slapping your thigh, or kicking a bit of sand off to the side, or waving your hat. what that does is get your horse to let go of the outside thought. then, he will look for another thought to join onto. if YOU are a nice place to be, then he'll turn and try to connect with you. 

if, when you do the small action, he does not let go of that external thought, do more, like you did, but, and this is important: it must not be actually DRIVING the horse away. it can be quick, loud and even violent, but not AT the horse. near the horse, next to the horse, ok, even toward the horse, but it's very apparent to the horse if the person has too much focus ON their face and driving them away. 

don't get me wrong, I absolutely WILL put pressure on the face of the hrose, but only when I DO want them to move away from me. you want them to let go of that external thought, and at the best result to jump a bit, but end up really looking at you. 
if the horse jumps, then leaves you, THEN you can get more violently scary. that's because you said, "hey! I'm here", they heard you , but they left anyway. but, really, you don't make it AWFUL out there. you just make it a bit uncomfortable, and you keep real careful attention for when the horse is 'searching' for something better than 'out there'. if you don't give the hrose some time to search when he's tentative about it, he will not develop the self confidence that comes with being willing to look for you when his fear level is telling him to look elsewhere. I know it sounds goofy, or la-la, but the more you allow your horse to 'choose' you , to look for a different thing than what he's looking for outside of you, the more confident he becomes.

when he was walking slowly toward you a cople of times, sort of tentatively, you rather hurridly slapped your thigh with the rope, and walked away, attemtpting to 'draw ' him to you. but, just a bit more patient waiting, just 'being' a good place to be would make Barney choose to come, rather than being pulled along. and when he does come, you let him be with you for a bit. just hanging out in peace. this is the greatest pleasure for horses. 

when he approached the tarp and was sniffing it and then started to avoid it and leave it, you might have been able to get him to think ON you for a bit, and then maybe you could send him back over just enough that he thinks about sniffing it a bit more. you work on sending his thought back to that thing, again and again, but allow him as much time sniffing and thinking on it as he needs. alway give him plenty of quiet when he's searching.

otherwise, I think that you are on the right track with Barney. it's just a matter of working on timing and slowing down a bit when he is thinking of being with you.


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## greentree

OK, sorry to interrupt your journal, but what you said about needing to trot by, because that is "the method"...... I think you are training the horse to go fast past anything that scares him. 

If you want to be the leader, then walk over the tarp, and have him follow you. Walk confidently, smiling, hands at your side, so the lead has no tension in it, like it is no big deal. If he spooks, deal with that. Actually, i would do nothing but keep walking on the tarp until he does.


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## anndankev

Alhefner said:


> Barney was a very good boy today. Yeah, he acted up a little but it was very minor and I did correct him.
> 
> He also got a very brief bath! that horse was absolutely filthy...just the way he likes it! Now, Barney hates getting wet...*hates it*! He protested some but, overall, he took it all in good "suffering horse" manner...
> 
> https://youtu.be/WDF4QY8Xnas


Just a quick plug here for the HorseForum Photo of the Month Contest.

The theme of the August contest is COOLING WATER

As of this point in time there are no entries. 

I encourage you to get a still shot out of your bath video and enter the contest!

The contest is open for entries until Monday August 22nd 2016.

Please enter, and tell all your friends to enter as well.

Thanks and here is a link to the contest thread:


http://www.horseforum.com/horseforum-com-news/***-enter-now-***-august-2016-a-719745/

It is in the HorseForum.com News Forum, and can easily be found on the HOME page. (by clicking on the word HOME in the NavBar just under the banner, at the far left of the screen).


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## Alhefner

Yes, I absolutely COULD have gotten Barney to cross that tarp by leading him, eventually. No argument whatsoever on that from me but, I would have made absolutely ZERO PROGRESS in what I was trying to accomplish!

Sure, the tarp would have no longer bothered Barney AS LONG AS I WAS LEADING HIM but he would still have been terrified of it on his own.

I know that does not jibe with MOST people's experiences with horses! I'm fully aware of that. In fact, I thought the same way for a good while! I thought that if I could just get Barney to accept things with me leading him, he would be fine under saddle. The EXACT OPPOSITE happened!

To illustrate, when I first started riding Barney, I could ride him out into the desert scrub along rabbit trails and he did very well. Sure, there was a horse eating tree that he spooked at and a trailer out there was suspicious but, we dealt with it pretty calmly.

One would think that things would only get better the more often we went out into the scrub...that did NOT happen.Barney got more and more suspicious of the desert and, eventually, would go out there ONLY if I was leading him, another human was walking on the ground with us, or other horses were there. He would absolutely REFUSE to go out onto the scrub if I was riding him and NO OTHER people or horses were close by that he could use as a shield. I could lead him out there easily. I did so many times thinking that would help...it only got worse!

That's when I noticed that OTHER places were becoming more and more "spooky" to Barney even though he had experienced them OFTEN with nothing scary happening. The line of horse trailers, the east and south sides of the arena, the east portion of the round pen, and the list was starting to grow and the spooky places were becoming outright "panic here" places.

Barney is a mustang but, he was born in and raised in a BLM holding facility. For his first 5.5 years, he never experienced ANYTHING outside of those holding pens. Even after that, his next set of experiences were in a PRISON where he was enclosed but being trained to carry a rider and to trust humans a little.

So, the desert scrub is an alien place.

Now, there are some things that may seem surprising. Barney won't even flinch a little bit when a jackrabbit explodes out of the brush under his feet or when a covey of quail fly up in his face or even when a real snake slithers along in front of him (long lead lines stretched out on the ground are another thing entirely). However, those are all things that are commonly found in the BLM holding pens anyway so, he's experienced them from birth.

I researched this heavily. The problem is NOT those places or those things at all but Barney's thought process itself. In his mind, the perceived threats simply keep growing no matter how many times he is exposed to them...actually, the more he is exposed to them, the faster the threat perception grows. It's his actual thought process that is the problem.

So, the exercise in the video was to change Barney's thought process itself, not to get him over a specific fear. It's a method of letting Barney figure out that it's a lot more comfortable, and a lot less work, to slow down and investigate instead of going straight to spook and panic.

Progress in the direction I want to go was made! Barney did, on his own, decide to try investigating the "scary thing". Eventually, he got pretty comfortable investigating it and even decided that it wasn't scary... all ON HIS OWN. That is a major accomplishment.

It's a start and only a start! There is more work to do and it is going to take time. Still, I want to instill in him that it is MUCH more comfortable to investigate than it is to panic and run away. What I did in that video is just one method, out of many, to start getting that to happen.


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## tinyliny

I agree with you , Al, fundamentally. it's interesting that you are changing your thinking about this. 
Barney will, even though not wild born, be more careful about his footing than a horse that has a long line of domestic ancestors. I think he was somewhat afraid of the tarp, when it was wind blown and moved like somekind of threatening animal, but he dodged around it too becuase he doesn't like to put his feet somewhere he's not sure about. you'll come to appreciate that when riding him out on the trail.


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## Alhefner

I find it kind of funny that you would say he'll be more careful about his footing. Yes, absolutely when it came to the tarp or any other surface that isn't "normal" to him but, I've found that when it comes to normal ground with loose rock, steep inclines, etc... he is pretty careless and a bit clueless! Can't wait to come upon water and see how he reacts...


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## tinyliny

well, I spent some time doing round pen work, for fun, with a friend's horse tonight. much harder than I thought it would be. that horse just would NOT give up his idea that it was better for him to be outside that pen than inside. I did a lot of 'thrashing ' around, but in the end, the hrose was very forgiving, as they tend to be.


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## Alhefner

Today's plan was to start working on Barney's tendency to balk on the lead and, when he gets upset, to pull me around on the lead.

In researching the issue, I found that Larry Trocha shows a thing he calls a "come-a-long" made out of a length of stiff rope. This is a training tool that must be used sparingly and very carefully! The rope forms two main loops...one that goes just behind the horse's ears and one that goes around his nose. A stiff rope of about 1/2" diameter, like a lariat, is best so that the loops can relax and open up immediately when pressure is released.

WORD OF WARNING! A horse should never be tied with one of these! Serious debilitating injury can be done to the nerves if too much pressure is applies such as when a horse suddenly pulls back hard.

OK, so, I had 20' of three strand stiff rope to use. I carried that to Barney's corral and he immediately gave this new rope his most suspicious look and, as I got it closer to him, he started snorting!

Hmmm...horse afraid of a rope...go figure. Sure, it's different than his lead ropes and sort of looks like lariat rope so, maybe he has a reason.

I spent about 45 minutes desensitizing him to that rope but, he finally wasn't worried about it so, I was able to fashion the "come-a-long" and start getting Barney used to it.

This thing works folks. Only once, and only for about 2 seconds, Barney tried pulling back against it. He didn't test it at all after that! Oh, well, he did "taste test" it a little.

I didn't go too far. I just wanted Barney to get the feel of this new tool. tomorrow, I'll use it to lead him around outside his corral.


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## tinyliny

I was wondering about your lead rope; what material it is made out of. it looks somewhat lightweight, but the video doesn't give that much clear view. I use a 5/8 inch diameter, heavy cotton yacht rope. at least I think that's the diamter. the heavy cotton won't slide through your hands as easily as some of the more lightweight nylon leadlines. and a thinner rope halter (be sure it fits well) gives more 'bite' , making it harder for the horse to lean on.


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## Alhefner

The blue lead rope is 5/8" poly double braid. The smallest rope I have that I sometimes use as a lead is a black, double braid, poly mecate that's about 1/2". All of them are quite soft and flexible except for one that I made myself out of 3/4" poly three strand. I've only used that one a few times.


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## tinyliny

Oh, that explains somewhat why he can get that rope out of your hand If you can, get a good quality 12 foot cotton lead. Yacht rope is good. It is much easier to keep a ver firm grip on. Then wear gloves And, when you try to pull the rope sideways and backward , to take Barneys head off to the side and stop him from lining up to barge off , it is better to lift the rope upward some, rather than pull downward, which is our instinctual reaction when the horse pulls against us.


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## PoptartShop

anndankev said:


> Just a quick plug here for the HorseForum Photo of the Month Contest.
> 
> The theme of the August contest is COOLING WATER
> 
> As of this point in time there are no entries.
> 
> I encourage you to get a still shot out of your bath video and enter the contest!
> 
> The contest is open for entries until Monday August 22nd 2016.
> 
> Please enter, and tell all your friends to enter as well.
> 
> Thanks and here is a link to the contest thread:
> 
> 
> http://www.horseforum.com/horseforum-com-news/***-enter-now-***-august-2016-a-719745/
> 
> It is in the HorseForum.com News Forum, and can easily be found on the HOME page. (by clicking on the word HOME in the NavBar just under the banner, at the far left of the screen).


Hey, @Rmaree...you posted beach pictures a bit ago, you should enter!


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## Alhefner

Thanks for the welcomes!

I'm so proud of my horse that I'm posting this here and in the over 50 thread and in my "Starting again" journal!

I got off work at 7Am this morning and headed straight out to see Mr. Barney. Of course, I get there before all the horses get fed and, I just wanted to do a little "steam reduction" in the round pen then put Barney back long enough for him to eat his breakfast. I saddled Barney as part of the plan for some more training too.

Well, the place soon got more lively! Other people showed up, sudden, loud, noises everywhere. My idiot mutt getting on another dog's nerves, as usual, and getting her doggie butt well chastised by the other dog for it. In short, the usually very peaceful, calm, ranch was so full of distractions.

Add in the fact that feeding started too and Mr. Barney was super keyed up! At that point, I just did some lunging to get his attention on an easy job that he knows how to do. Afterward, I led him up to his corral to have breakfast.

So, that was the START of the day!

I let Barney eat for an hour. Another boarder had showed up and wanted to go out for a trail ride. Barney was still saddled and I did really, really, want to get out on the trail to put more experience on him sooooo, off we went!

For those who are not familiar with the story, Barney is very much scared of the wide open spaces of the high desert. He's a mustang that was born in captivity and trained in enclosed spaces...he had never experienced "out there" until I got him. Through all my own fault, Barney quickly developed his fear and was sure that "out there" was a land of horse eating monsters.

With another horse leading the way, Barney braved the land of horse eating monsters! Yep, he was on high alert but, I made sure to direct him away from the other horse, around junipers and such, then right back to the other horse. Doing that, Barney soon _began_ to relax a bit.

The other rider is very experienced and kept giving me very useful pointers! That turned out to be a really good thing too. 

After putting Barney in the lead a few times, which he was very unsure of, things were going quite well when we crossed another gully...

THAT'S when I screwed up! I had put leather reins on the bridle and had NOT tied them together so, they were just split reins. I'm not sure what happened to cause it but, I dropped my left rein.

As soon as the left rein hit the ground, it became a horse eating monster that Barney couldn't get away from! Thus ensued two minutes of Barney trying to spin, back peddle, and bolt (he never did bolt, just tried to) while I tried to stop him while also trying to reach forward and down to grab that rein!

Eventually, using advice from the other rider, I got Barney to stand still. Then, I could reach and grab the rein. As soon as I lifted it from the ground, it magically transformed from "horse eating monster" to "Oh, one of those things".

Maybe Barney thinks it's a dangerous snake but, he's watched real snakes slither along without so much as an ear twitch! It's just things like lead lines, ropes, hoses, and his reins, that become monsters in his thinking when they are stretched out on the ground.

Anyway, it took another five minutes of riding along before BOTH of of chilled out! However, after that, Barney was pretty darned calm! He even more willingly took the lead a few times and, started becoming very soft in doing things like stopping and turning!

It wasn't until we got back to the barn area that he again had some moments of being scared...of a hose and an open tack shed. Again, with advice from the other rider, I managed to coax Barney, in the lead, pat them and ended the ride on a good note.

As for me, I was THRILLED! Barney made HUGE strides of progress today! To top it all off, Barney seemed to be in very high spirits while I unsaddled him! He rubbed his face on my arm, played with trying to knock the saddle off the hitching rail, and as I led him back to his corral, was about the most compliant horse he's ever been!

What a great day!


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## tinyliny

good for you two! he really enjoys the stimulation of going out, even if fear is part of the bargain.

and, having him take on some challenges, and be successful really builds his self confidence. I hope you can do more of this sort of riding; where you follow some, lead some, follow some, lead, etc. it's a good stragety.


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## greentree

What a wonderful ride!!

Barney sounds like he has never had to take on challenges by himself, so the group gives you both a lot of confidence!!


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## Foxhunter

Several things I think you would benefit you thinking about.

Forst off, if you left the tarp down in his paddock chances are that he would play with it and you could anchor four corners and place hos feed in the middle of it. 

I know from years of experience that leave something 'spooky' amd walk away curiosity and destructive nature they will be at it in very little time. 

When it comes to training not to spook that comes from the handler and does not need to get the horse's feet moving, it comes from a belief in oneself tha the horse is going to follow you through thick and thin. The slightest 'he is probably going to spook' thought he will pick up on. 

When he doesn't pay attention, use a word like "Eh" amd a shake of the rope or a finger poke on his neck, and chances are he will look to you. 

I think that CA videos do explain his method well but, look at his horses and they are what I would call mechanical, they do everything he wants but there is never any spark in their eyes.


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## Alhefner

Selected scenes from the great trail ride on Barney yesterday. The GoPro ran out of battery juice before I dropped the left rein and Barney panicked but, this gives you an idea of just how well he's doing.


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## greentree

Foxhunter said:


> Several things I think you would benefit you thinking about.
> 
> Forst off, if you left the tarp down in his paddock chances are that he would play with it and you could anchor four corners and place hos feed in the middle of it.
> 
> I know from years of experience that leave something 'spooky' amd walk away curiosity and destructive nature they will be at it in very little time.
> 
> When it comes to training not to spook that comes from the handler and does not need to get the horse's feet moving, it comes from a belief in oneself tha the horse is going to follow you through thick and thin. The slightest 'he is probably going to spook' thought he will pick up on.
> 
> When he doesn't pay attention, use a word like "Eh" amd a shake of the rope or a finger poke on his neck, and chances are he will look to you.
> 
> I think that CA videos do explain his method well but, look at his horses and they are what I would call mechanical, they do everything he wants but there is never any spark in their eyes.


How many times can I ,'like' this??!!

It seems counter intuitive, especially if you read CA's method as saying that the feet must move to get over the 'booger'....but just saying ''whoa", and letting a horse think and relax ( which is the reward), they usually realize it is not going to hurt, andvmove on through whatever it is.


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## Alhefner

More than a few times, I've let Barney stop and look then the "booger" just got bigger and scarier in his mind. A few times, that resulted in a minor "blow up" and other times, it resulted in flat out refusal to move near that place again.

Once or twice, I've let him stop and look then have been able to coax him on through it...

So, with Barney, there is NO set "method". I simply have to try things until I find something that gets the result needed at the time.

Sometimes, the method that works is standard desensitizing with exposure ... sometimes, the method that works is making examining the "scary thing/place" the easier option while avoiding it is the harder option.

There is NO "just do this" and "act this way" that always works with Barney.


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## Alhefner

I love online forums, I really do! They prove to be a great source of information, advice, encouragement, and many other positive things!

I also, sometimes, sort of hate online forums! With the wide audience, along with the positive, you get the not so positive or helpful.

Sure, there is the standard percentage of ignorance and I fully accept that. BUT, I also find that there are lots of folks who insist that "Do this and everything will work for you!" or "Do what (trainer X) says and you're going to ruin your horse!"

Over my entire life, I have been "troubleshooting" in one fashion or another...whether it be "troubleshooting" electronic gear, industrial machinery, automobiles, organizational problems, or personnel issues, I've had to do it.

One thing I've learned, often the very hard way, was to NEVER get stuck on one train or thought about the process of getting from "problem" to "solution" to "fix"! Flexibility is KEY! A critically enabled open mind is highly desirable!

So, in dealing with Mr. Barney, I try different approaches. Some of them work well in some instances but not in other instances. That's perfectly fine! I'm not stuck with one thing or method or philosophy!

What irks me though is when I post about a SUCCESS, something that WORKED and WORKED WELL, then people insist that I have done some terrible deed and that if I had "just done this", I would have gotten better results and Barney would have been ever so much happier.

Well, chances are that I might have indeed tried that "just do this" method and DID NOT get the results I was seeking so, I adapted and tried SOMETHING ELSE and then, when that didn't work well, tried SOMETHING ELSE until I found something that DID work.

OK, rant over... ya'll have a wonderful day! I'm gonna go play with Barney.


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## Foxhunter

I think that you should ride out with the woman who you were with in the last video! She has a good understanding and obviously is experienced. 

In my never humble opinion, you *have* to get over the thoughts that Barney will spook at certain points, you expect it and he will do it. It takes time to learn how to always think positive. 

Many the time I have had horses come to me that were a problem or the owner because they didn't like going over a stream or didn't like traffic, spooked, were barn sour. Or wouldn't load With most I never had a problem purely because I thought positive. 

When a horse is spooky it is often because they are barn sour. Look at something act frightened and refuse to move. Then I will move their feet and circle and work the. Hard around the object. 

Cherie, who is absent at the moment due to being hit by a tornado, wrote a very good piece which you should read

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/how-we-train-fearless-trail-horse-99776/

Just remember, negative thinking gets you nowhere fast! I bet you do not look at an engine and think that it is impossible to get running!


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## Alhefner

Foxhunter said:


> I think that you should ride out with the woman who you were with in the last video! She has a good understanding and obviously is experienced.


Every chance I get!


Foxhunter said:


> In my never humble opinion, you *have* to get over the thoughts that Barney will spook at certain points, you expect it and he will do it. It takes time to learn how to always think positive.


Working on that! It has to be a very conscience effort and, I find myself already tense as the spooky place or object is nearly gone by... still, I'm working on it.



Foxhunter said:


> Many the time I have had horses come to me that were a problem or the owner because they didn't like going over a stream or didn't like traffic, spooked, were barn sour. Or wouldn't load With most I never had a problem purely because I thought positive.
> 
> When a horse is spooky it is often because they are barn sour. Look at something act frightened and refuse to move. Then I will move their feet and circle and work the. Hard around the object.


Absolutely! I've been doing some of that already. He certainly is barn/corral/pen/buddy sour to some extent. That's the method I use to make heading for the barn/corral/pen/buddy more effort than simply doing as I'm asking.



Foxhunter said:


> Cherie, who is absent at the moment due to being hit by a tornado, wrote a very good piece which you should read
> 
> http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/how-we-train-fearless-trail-horse-99776/


I read that one a while back but, since you've put the link here, I'll go back and read it again in a bit!



Foxhunter said:


> Just remember, negative thinking gets you nowhere fast! I bet you do not look at an engine and think that it is impossible to get running!


Nope, I've never looked at much of anything as impossible to do... just that I might need to go find out how to get it done.


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## Alhefner

Barney is not feeling good today. He's slightly listless, drooling like crazy, yawning quite a bit, and seems to have some irritation with his mouth.

No vet access today! No stores open that might have some sort of treatment but, I have no clue what might be wrong either.

Here's a very short video of what I'm seeing:


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## sarahfromsc

Mine will drool heavily eating clover (red?) in the pasture, but you look like you are on more dirt like paddocks.

The way he is rubbing his muzzle, and stretching his mouth, could he have something stuck in his gums from hay, or pasture?

I would check his gums for something either stuck in there, or ulcers of the mouth/gums.


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## Alhefner

Yeah, the ranch owner just called and said he saw the video. We'll be checking to see if he managed to get something stuck in his mouth. Since he DOES love the dried up, crunchy, stiff, high desert weeds, that is certainly possible!


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## tinyliny

Al

i'd like to respond to some of your and Foxhuter's comments before I watch the video of Barney not feeling well.

first of all, it is often much harder for the person who has been on the hrose while it spooked to ride it out with NO forethought that it might spook again in similar locales. put a rider on how has never ridden that horse, and never ridden that horse when it spooked, and they have no preconceptions, thus the hrose behaves better for them. while I agree that it's best not to have preconceptions that he might/will spook at such and such a place, it's harder done than said, if you've had it happen to you before.

second: nice ride out with Jennifer! I wish I could have heard what she was saying. well done.

next: Barney rides much better in a bit than the halter/bosal. I'd be ditching those and using the snaffle exclusively. and, the heavy leather rein seem easier for you to manage, and will transmit a lot of feel. work on learning how to hold them in one hand, and use the other to slide down the rein when needed to shorten it. personally, I prefer the English style of rein, where it is one loop with a buckle at the middle. it is easy to shorten/ lengthen and you don't have all that messy extra from a mecate. our member Nutty Saddler makes the most beautiful leather reins of heavy leather. they are a joy to hold and very well made.

next. when you released him in the arena/corral he leaped away from you. I know you didn't intend that, but may I suggest that you try to make it so that YOU leave him, rather than HIM leaving YOU. take the halter off, make him bend his head toward you, pet his nose, then turn away from him slowly , making no effort to send him off in any way.

last; when you stop him, if he stops but he is still leaning on the rein, just waiting for you to release it so he can fall forward and go, . . back him up a step or two, then give him a loose rein to see if he can stop without leaning. 
do it first when he is not following anotehr horse, as this will make him more anxioius to go. so, get his stops better in the arena, or when you are the one leading.

and, last last . . . I hope that wasn't too much internet nagging!


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## Alhefner

OK, Barney is better! He had some fox-tail type weeds stuck in his gums in various places and that was irritating him to no end!

The ranch owner and I scraped out his gum line, which annoyed Barney quite a bit, then rinsed his mouth out using the hose.

I have to give Mr. Barney credit! Even though he was annoyed with what we were doing, he recognized that he was starting to feel better and his resistance was less and less the better he felt.

Oh, he still didn't WANT us fiddling around in his mouth or shoving the water hose in there to wash his mouth out but, he went from really trying hard to get away from it to simply trying to make it more difficult for us to do it.

When it was all over, Barney was no longer drooling and he came up to me to get petted and told what a good boy he is.

He was eating and drinking very well before we cleaned out his mouth and pooping just fine too. Looks like the entire thing was just the weeds stuck in/on his gums and irritating him.


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## Alhefner

tinyliny said:


> Al
> 
> i'd like to respond to some of your and Foxhuter's comments before I watch the video of Barney not feeling well.
> 
> first of all, it is often much harder for the person who has been on the hrose while it spooked to ride it out with NO forethought that it might spook again in similar locales. put a rider on how has never ridden that horse, and never ridden that horse when it spooked, and they have no preconceptions, thus the hrose behaves better for them. while I agree that it's best not to have preconceptions that he might/will spook at such and such a place, it's harder done than said, if you've had it happen to you before.
> 
> second: nice ride out with Jennifer! I wish I could have heard what she was saying. well done.
> 
> next: Barney rides much better in a bit than the halter/bosal. I'd be ditching those and using the snaffle exclusively. and, the heavy leather rein seem easier for you to manage, and will transmit a lot of feel. work on learning how to hold them in one hand, and use the other to slide down the rein when needed to shorten it. personally, I prefer the English style of rein, where it is one loop with a buckle at the middle. it is easy to shorten/ lengthen and you don't have all that messy extra from a mecate. our member Nutty Saddler makes the most beautiful leather reins of heavy leather. they are a joy to hold and very well made.


 agreed! got a "D" ring snaffle to replace the "O" ring job.



tinyliny said:


> next. when you released him in the arena/corral he leaped away from you. I know you didn't intend that, but may I suggest that you try to make it so that YOU leave him, rather than HIM leaving YOU. take the halter off, make him bend his head toward you, pet his nose, then turn away from him slowly , making no effort to send him off in any way.


 good advice!


tinyliny said:


> last; when you stop him, if he stops but he is still leaning on the rein, just waiting for you to release it so he can fall forward and go, . . back him up a step or two, then give him a loose rein to see if he can stop without leaning.
> do it first when he is not following anotehr horse, as this will make him more anxioius to go. so, get his stops better in the arena, or when you are the one leading.


 YEPPERS! We'll be working on that for sure!


tinyliny said:


> and, last last . . . I hope that wasn't too much internet nagging!


It didn't read as nagging! All good advice and thoughts that I have actually been "nagging" myself to get better at.


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## tinyliny

I'm so glad you guys got that taken care of. we have all come to care about you and the Barnster.


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## bsms

A confident, life-long rider with no preconceptions about Bandit had Bandit run 100 yards sideways on him. Why? There was a car parked at the side of the rode, and Bandit exploded. That was back when Bandit saw no purpose in giving warning.

The hardest spooks I rode on Mia came when I was feeling totally confident. The one that caused her saddle to slip sideways came just as I was about to take my feet of the stirrups for some no stirrup work.

Just last week, I was feeling extremely tense about riding Bandit. Not only did he not spook, but he stayed calm as a swarm of migrating bees went overhead. I was a total mess pretty much the entire ride, but Bandit was rock solid.

Last winter, a neighbor had two 6' tall inflatable snowmen in his yard, waving back and forth in the wind. I knew Bandit would freak. He didn't even flick an ear....but our "Steady Eddie" Trooper did. Wouldn't go within 20 feet, regardless of Bandit's lack of concern. 

Cowboy spooked a month ago with my wife. It was a bicyclist. She's a fairly new rider who had no idea Cowboy would spook at a bicyclist. After all, he had been solid a little earlier with a half dozen motorcyclists, which seemed much more spook-worthy to her.

Bandit spooked while eating a couple of nights ago. I was still in the corral, cleaning up, and he suddenly spun around...in the middle of eating a flake of hay. That obviously had nothing to do with rider confidence, since I wasn't riding and I still have absolutely no idea why he spun around, then stood on full alert for a couple of minutes. The other two horses never paused their eating.

I couldn't count the spooks where I never figured out what the spooky thing was supposed to have been. Nor could I count the times where I was waiting for a reaction that never came. YMMV, as things often do with horses.


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## Alhefner

bsms said:


> I couldn't count the spooks where I never figured out what the spooky thing was supposed to have been. Nor could I count the times where I was waiting for a reaction that never came. YMMV, as things often do with horses.


Yep. When Barney spooked and spun, in preparation for bolting the length of the arena, from the _sound_ of a lunge whip 50 yards away in the round pen, I was happily riding him at a walk. Barney wasn't "acting spooky" in any particular way even though he was at the end of the arena he dislikes. No apprehension on my part that... at least none that I was aware of.

The good part of that was that I had managed to train myself to halt Barney with one rein. Then, I turned him back to the path we were taking and rode on.

The second time he heard that lunge whip, we were farther away and the other end of the arena was right in front of him... took much less effort to calm him down and just ride on.


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## Change

Some horses will spook because of rider tenseness, but as *bsms *said, sometimes they lose their minds at things we'd never expect them to notice. I was riding a young colt on the trail several years back. He was very green - his second solo trail ride - and a covey of grouse decided to explode in front of us. Naturally, I flinched and tightened up on the colt, who completely ignored the birds. Ten steps later, he froze, lowered his head and stared, then started to spin away with the intent of heading home at high speed. What did he see? A 4" long lizard doing push-ups on a stone! {{sigh}} I was able to turn his spin-bolt into a complete 360 spin and stop, and we proceeded past that Monster Lizard at a sidling, staring pace, but still - whodathunk? LOL! Just take each spook as it comes and deal with it.

My only advice - _only because you've told me to pipe up when I felt it worth mentioning _- is to calm your hands. They're too busy and too high most of the time. When just moving forward, keep both hands in, forward of the cantle and always below your belt. When turning, ask first with outside leg, then leg and a wiggle of the inside rein, then widen the "door" by moving your inside rein wide. Keep the outside rein low and just bring it slightly in so that it rests on his neck. You might want to try a set of closed roper reins to help you keep your hands quieter. Also - when riding, try not to let Barney cheat and grab at scrub grass/food. His attention should be on you, not his next mouthful.

And - as always, feel free to ignore all I've said! LOL! I think you're doing great with Barney regardless.


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## Alhefner

Barney is just fine today. He has a new "thing". When he sees me coming, he walks off to hide behind a juniper and peek out around it, or through it, at me. That doesn't last long. I either just walk on up to him or wait until he can't stand it and comes to me.

I worked on a few things. 

1. Change my demeanor! Go confidently through whatever I'm doing with Barney...no matter what it is.

2. A bit of "sacking out" with a lariat and new saddle bags.

3. Work on any "respect" or "trust" issues that might arise.

First thing, Barney had a major spook while I was putting the rope "come-a-long" on him. He jumped backward about 8 feet! the only reaction I allowed myself was to just take up where I left off and get it done calmly. Barney made no further objections and led easily from his corral.

Once we got to the corral, I opened the gate and tried to send him through it like always...Barney's hoof hit the bottom rail and he jumped backward again. I just led him on in.

For some reason I can't grasp, Barney was sort of jumpy when he first got into the round pen. I ignored it for the most part except for getting his attention back on me when required. He settled down fairly soon anyway.

I started out with a few minutes of easy lunging on the lunge line at the walk and trot. Not long! Just enough to sort of get his mind on task.

Next came the lariat! Barney has seen it before. I simply used approach and retreat until I could rub him all over with it. Then, I stood beside Barney and tossed the loop, not swinging it overhead but just tossing, until he would stand still calmly while I tossed it and gathered it back up. Ropes sliding on the ground really bother Barney a lot! I kept it up until he wasn't so worried about it.

The saddle bags are the horn mount type with Velcro closures. So, getting him used to the bags and the sound of the Velcro was the goal. Barney snorted hard at the bags! I paid his snorts no attention but kept up the approach and retreat until I could touch him quite a bit with it. Playing with the Velcro? Not even an ear twitch!

Lastly, I tied the saddle bags to the lariat! I used that rig to effect a swinging drop of the bags under Barney's nose the dragged the bags to me with the lariat. the combination of lariat and bags upped the ante some but not terribly so. It wasn't long before I could toss the bags and lariat to Barney's feet for a bit of a distance and he would just look at it but not jump or try to evade it.

Since things had gone well and because I want Barney to find SOME comfort with the round pen instead of only work, I got a plastic tub and put some hay in it. That, I brought into the round pen and placed in the "spooky place" for him. Food overrides all spooks!

When the tub was empty, I had to assert some respect! I was taking the tub out and Barney wanted to crowd me. I did NOT put up with that! I made him back off and stand five feet away while I exited the round pen.

The last "lesson" was another one of "respect" as I was leading Barney out of the round pen. He exited the gate calmly enough but, as soon as he was clear of the gate, he swung around behind me and got as close as he could to my back. I swung around on him and backed him off in no uncertain terms! Pushing into me is NOT ALLOWED at ANY time for ANY reason!

Barney was mostly a good boy on the trip back to his corral. Sure, he still has his "spooky places" but, I just kept on trudging along as if nothing was unusual. When we got into his corral, I made him stand after his halter was off for a few seconds before I put my hand under his chin and gently pulled toward me as I walked away.

That's it for today. I "plan" on getting out there about 5:30AM tomorrow and after a short stint in the round pen, saddling Barney up and working on cues in the arena.


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## Alhefner

Barney hadn't been in the arena for longer than advisable. Early this morning, just after sunrise and well before his breakfast, I got him ready and in we went.

Well, of course, things were not arranged the same any more and Barney was "worried" about just about everything.

What I tried to do was to just ride keeping Barney going in whatever direction I chose and to keep his feet moving forward.

As best I could, I stayed totally relaxed and indifferent in the saddle. I think I pulled that off fairly well.

Barney had a couple of "spooks" at the imagined monsters but, I simply put his nose back in the direction I had originally planned and rode on.

I paid more attention to his ears and it seemed as if he was listening more to me than usual. That's a good thing!

Not sure of our progress but I think we made some. I'm going back this afternoon for more time in the saddle...either arena or around the ranch areas.

Here's edited video of this morning:


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## Alhefner

Well, plans are plans and sometimes they change. The "plan" for this afternoon was to saddle Barney and do some more work in the arena...that plan changed!

By the time I got Barney to the hitching rail, he had been such a jerk, making up monsters and scary things, that I decided to let him just stew for a bit until he settled down...

That plan got modified when he decided to try a blowup when his saddle blanket blew off the rail. The change became "I'll just sit here relaxing while you keep on making up monsters in youre head. When you decide that making yourself scared is not worth the effort and stand relaxed for at least an hour, then you get to go back to your corral."

I opted for the "This will profit you not." that BSMS talks about.

Barney got to stand there for about 2.5 hours. I was always close enough that I could quickly get to him and slip the knot in his lead rope to let him loose if he decided to try a total meltdown. By the time I decided he waws doing well, no imaginary monsters in a long time, Barney was totally bored, not worried about anything...


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## tinyliny

good stuff happening there. I like how you released him. you and he are finding your balance.


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## Alhefner

Poor Mr. Barney. The ranch owner and I double teamed him today. I was on the lunge line while the ranch owner worked at things like throwing a lariat at Barney and making very loud noises (sounds like gunshots). Sure, he spooked, shied, and even panicked a few times but, I did my best to keep his attention on me and stayed very calm as he lunged. Lots of transitions and direction changes in the mix too!

It only took about an hour before Barney decided the scary things were really not all that scary after all.

Sooooo, It was time to saddle Mr. Barney up. He looked very happy to see me coming into the round pen with the saddle but, that was a ruse! Twice while I was saddling him, Barney made moves to bite! Not good and not acceptable! He got corrected on the spot! Then, when I was trying to put his bridle on, he became downright impossible!

Well, so much for that business! He got double teamed again...with the saddle on! Another hour along and Barney was more contrite but, he still tried to fight getting the bridle and snaffle bit.

However, he did get the bit and bridle and I got on to practice cues. Barney was a lot more attentive even as he worked very hard at getting his tongue OVER the bit! Well, Barney did manage to get his tongue over the bit, a "D" ring snaffle adjusted to be fairly tight in his mouth...not enough to cause a bunch of wrinkles but fairly tight. That's not good at all! I'll be going to a different bit tomorrow!

Anyway, the riding went well enough. Barney listened to me and was pretty obedient. I took off the bridle and put on his bosal. He likes that better but is also much LESS responsive. I still managed to end the day on a good note.

Putting Barney back in his corral, the wind was blowing hard! Lots of things blowing around and Barney was nervous about that. Still, he led very well and after getting his halter off, I put my hand under his chin to turn him with me so that he would be looking at me as I walked away from him.

So, a pretty productive day overall.


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## tinyliny

that's odd; him trying to bite you several times. I wonder if the saddle is less comfortable than you you think.

would he do better in a bit with some kind of port in the middle? 
if he gets his tongue over the bit, what happens? does he become unrideable? maybe having his tongue over the bit is not such a bad thing. maybe hanging it lower in his mouth, so he CAN get his tongue over, then withdraw it back under, then over , then ? . . I mean, he has the freedom to position as he will, and to kind of , what the cowboys call "pick up and carry the bit himself", rather than having it so tight up in the back of his mouth he feels gagged and panicked about it.


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## Alhefner

tinyliny said:


> that's odd; him trying to bite you several times. I wonder if the saddle is less comfortable than you you think.


The saddle has never bothered him before. I think he was protesting the prospect of more work. When he found that I wasn't going to let him bite me, he picked up the lead rope and chewed on that for a while.



tinyliny said:


> would he do better in a bit with some kind of port in the middle?


That's what I'm trying next.


tinyliny said:


> if he gets his tongue over the bit, what happens? does he become unrideable? maybe having his tongue over the bit is not such a bad thing. maybe hanging it lower in his mouth, so he CAN get his tongue over, then withdraw it back under, then over , then ? . . I mean, he has the freedom to position as he will, and to kind of , what the cowboys call "pick up and carry the bit himself", rather than having it so tight up in the back of his mouth he feels gagged and panicked about it.


He's still rideable but, his responses are slower. The problem with having his tongue over the bit are that he no longer has that upper part of his tongue to use to ease the pressure of the bit on his bars and, the underside of the tongue is also a lot more tender... chances of getting sore spots increases.


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## tinyliny

is he using a single jointed snaffle, or a double? with a dogbone in the middle?

my friend bought a nice qh years ago. she'd gone to ride it at the owner's property and it rode well. (I think the seller must have tacked up before she arrived). back home she was riding it out and showed it to me and the first thing I saw was that the fork of the saddle was sitting right down on top of the horse's wither bones. she was horrified not to have noticed this. when she unsaddled, there were plenty of white hairs at that location; a sign of longterm pressure, but she had not noticed before. the horse ALWAYS tried to bite you when cinching up, or when shifting a blanket over his wither bones. even after getting fitted with a good saddle, it had the habit of angry/ugly face making when being saddled , and still does, even though he has a perfect saddle fit, has been treated for ulcers and lives like a king on all day turnout, treated so well. long term habits die hard.

but, in general, when a horse gets ugly at saddling, you always recheck saddle fit, palpate the back for soreness, and if it continues, you consider the possibility of ulcers. does he have some kind of hay to nibble on all day? or does he go long periods of time with nothing, then thrown a huge amount of hay?


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## bsms

Our mustang Cowboy has kind of wonky shoulders. If we aren't very careful with the saddle, it will slide up and create pressure at the shoulder. If in doubt, I move the saddle further back by a couple of inches. Some say that is wrong, but I've had more problems with getting my saddles too far forward than too far back.

Position - Why it is so important

I've never tried this bit, although I've been curious about it for a long time:








​
JP Hunter Dee Jointed Port - Quality Tack at Outlet Prices - VTO Saddlery


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## Alhefner

bsms said:


> I've never tried this bit, although I've been curious about it for a long time:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> JP Hunter Dee Jointed Port - Quality Tack at Outlet Prices - VTO Saddlery


Barney would have his tongue over that one in seconds! I bought a higher port curb bit and am going to go try it out on him in a bit...

As for saddle fit, I'm going to check it again! I'll just set it on him, no pad or blanket, to see how it conforms...


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## tinyliny

it looks like if you lifted one rein, that the bend , the sort of 'elbow' looking part of the mouthpiece would rotate down and dig into the tongue. I'm not sure how well a ported , single jointed snaffle really works. I just keep it simple, but I've never had a hrose that put his tongue over the bit. X will get mouthy on the bit if he is feeling frustrated, and like Barney, he will want to chew on the leadrope , again, out of feelings of irritation. he KNOWS he cannot chew on me and has never really even motioned seriously like he'd want to bite me. he just has negative feelings and wants to chomp down on Somthing


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## Alhefner

I don't even allow Barney to act like he might put his teeth on me. Simply not allowed. He knows it and, yep, he wants to bite SOMETHING when he is protesting. I do allow him to chew his ropes if he wants to.

Today was productive! I had a few things I wanted to do:

1. More "patience" training

2. Get better response to "head down"

3. Check saddle fit

4. Try out a new high port bit

Got em all done! Spent a couple of hours at it. for 30 - 45 minutes, Barney got schooled on "head down". He knows the command but would mostly drop his head then immediately fling it back up. that simply does not work for me. I want him putting his head down and holding it there until *I* decide to let him raise it again. By the end, Barney was doing that pretty well!

As for patience, Barney got some time simply being tied. He wanted to get loose and tried to untie himself by pulling on his lead rope at various points. I'll NEVER let him know how close he got to accomplishing his goal!

The saddle seems to fit pretty well! I put it on without the pad or blanket and checked how the tree conforms to him. There's a bit of flare on the front of the bars but, behind that, the contact seems very even all along his back.

As for the bit, it worked! Sure, Barney spent a good amount of time trying to put his tongue over it but never succeeded. He didn't completely give up but, by the time I was ready to take his bridle off, he had quit trying for the most part. When I was taking off his bridle, and his halter later, he very quietly kept his head down!

Here are selected clips:


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## tinyliny

Ok, Al. I'm gonna lay a whole bunch of feedback on ya . . get ready!

first, SLOW DOWN!!!!!

you need to put your hand on his poll, then you start with a very light touch, remember, that is what you will be asking with eventually, right? add a bit more, and you stay with him. it's 'feel' that you are trying to create, and that cannot be rushed. it cannot, ever, be , rushed.

so, put your hand on his poll, put a little downward push and keep waiting for a response. you aren't PUSHING him down, you are asking him until he answers, and if you have to wait a bit, so what? you can increase the pressure, but not too fast. go too fast, and you will miss the spot where he thinks about answering your reqauest. slow , steady pressure but a readiness to lighten (not remove) your hand when you feel he either does move his head down, or at least is willig to. don't remove your hand, you follow him, but you remove the pressure, so your hand is just lightly resting there, in total nuertral. if he comes back up, do NOT push against it, just stay with him, and ask again. 

you can help yourself a little by also having your left hand on the side of his face, or even holding the bottom of the halter, putting a bit of feel there, too.

but, before this, there are two other thigns I'd like to say

1. I would do all this training with him NOT tied at the hitching rail. I'd do it with the halter rope in your hand. when he is tied, he shoudl be basically doing nothing but being good at being patient, and moveing away from you when asked (anotehr point to address in a minute. I told you there was a lot!). so, seperate 'work/training' from 'resting/patience/do nothing training'.

2. you need to work on training him to keep his head to himself, and honestly, this should come before training him to lwoer his head. whenever you are standing next to him, such as grooming or saddling, he must keep his head at any angle that is between a line coming 45 degrees off of each shoulder. that gives him plenty of room to move his head, but he is NOT to reach around further toward you, especially a horse that is thihking about nipping. reinforce this not with actual slaps to his muzzle, but a short sharp vocal warning, then a short sharp two finger tap on his jawline. when he gets the idea, reinforce only with vocal scolding, but be darn consistent. 

so, when you do decide he will keep his face off to HIS side, you can then work on 'lower your head, please' but use your left hand to remind him to keep facing forward.

as for moving him over when he was swinging his hind toward you, you were right to address that one with a swat. but, another time, when you wanted him to move over, you leaned a finger hard into his side. this can work, but just be careful of being cow kicked as you are very close to where he could snag you.
I'd probably wave my hand at his hip, ask him vocally, "over! over!", then , standing back a bit, maybe use my hat to wave a bit more energy at him. if I poke with my fingers, I always ease of partway for each time he steps even a hint over . but, if he's being heavy on you, then wake him up first with a thigh slap, or a hat wave, just to get his attention and then I bet 'air taps' with yoru fingers will do it. once yo have the hrose's thought, it's much easier to move his feet.

now, off to watch the rest of the video

EDIT
I see that later on, (watching more of the video) you got better at it. good!


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## Alhefner

Long before today, I could just rest my hand on Barney's poll and say head down and he would lower his head then snap it right back up. He KNOWS the command very well. What he didn't know was to hold his head down. So, yes, I started gently and kept increasing pressure as he resisted.

As Barney started getting lighter, my pressure got lighter. At the end of the day, he was lowering his head nicely and keeping it there with just my putting my hand on him and saying "head down".

Yep, I could have gotten snagged with a cow kick... I'll watch that.

As for the dangerous moves, things that Barney tries that could harm me... THOSE get met with swift, immediate, BRUTAL, response... I will not deviate from that. He's a horse that has been disciplined by HORSES the entire first 5.5 years of his life. Whatever I do is not going to damage him.


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## Alhefner

Today with Barney went fairly well. Actually, better than I expected.


I worked Barney just a little while free lunging in the round pen to get his mind on work. Did some more "head down" after lunging while he stood beside me in the round pen with only his halter on. After some initial protest, Barney decided that doing as I commanded was the easier route and finally held his head down until I removed my hand from his head.


After that, I saddled him and put his bridle on (over his halter) with the new bit. I let Barney stay at the hitch rail, tied with his lead rope that is attached to his halter. The purpose in that was to let him keep trying to get his tongue over the bit until he pretty much gave up on it.


Next, back to the round pen to ride at a walk. Of course, with a saddle on and new bit in his mouth and a rider on his back, the possibility of monsters increased a whole lot! I pretended that I didn't notice his worries at all. Of course, I did notice but did my best to keep a very relaxed seat. I would ride him forward until I could tell he was close to trying to change directions then direct him myself before _he_ got to make the decision! We kept at that for about half an hour. Barney did relax a little but never completely. 


As for the new bit, it has hinged shanks so direct reining works pretty good and I worked on leg cues while only using the reins to reenforce the leg. Barney STARTED to understand but, I still had to use the reins more than I would like to keep him from veering to one side or the other... we'll get there!


Barney is very responsive to the bit! I doubt I ever applied more than 4-6 ounces of pressure at any time! As for lateral flexion, all I had to do is use two fingers to lightly lift the rein in the direction I wanted him to bend and he was bending right away. We're still working on his vertical response...not working on it a lot or in a dedicated way but working on it some.


The ranch owner's father wanted to go on a short ride on his paint gelding. The ranch owner decided to take a buckskin mare. Barney wasn't sure he wanted to go at all until I managed to get it through his head that he was going with other horses, THEN he was all for it.


The buckskin mare took an IMMEDIATE dislike to Barney...ear pinning, sour/"I hate you" face and all. So, I had to keep Barney clear of her and far enough back from the paint's butt not to get kicked, or to the paint's side.


I was concentrating on NOT buying into Barney's "worries" and keeping him between the reins instead of where we actually were going. It wasn't too long before Barney shook his head then did a full body shake! Looking around, I saw that were were right beside his monster "horse eating tree"! Barney didn't spook or shy away from it though.


As the short ride progressed, Barney did start to relax some. I even managed to persuade him to veer off on a very short side trip away from the other horses and then back to them. He was a pretty good boy overall and I made sure he got neck scratches as a reward.


At the end of the ride, at the hitching rail, Barney had absolutely no issues with "head down" too get the bridle off...imagine that. 


When I unsaddle Barney, I always take saddle, pad, and all, off all at once. I set it all on the hitch rail right there and Barney immediately wanted to start playing with the saddle blanket! I have no idea if he has something against the blanket or if he thinks it's a toy but, whenever it's within reach, he simply MUST take hold of it and try to get it on the ground. Silly horse!


Well, tonight is the first night of my 7 straight nights of 12 hour shifts... Writing this at work now (It's a tough job!) so, I'm not sure I'll have the energy to work with Barney tomorrow or not.


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## Alhefner

Barney's full body shake as he goes past his dreaded "horse eating tree".


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## DannyBoysGrace

Alhefner said:


> Well, I decided to take Mr. Barney Rubble to the round pen yesterday to see what was what. He did OK but, there are differences in ow he was trained and how I feel he should be trained... cues and all that jazz. Barney is very tuned in to the stick and string! So much so that he seems to just about panic whenever I raise the end of the stick. Waving it around, OH NO that means RUN and RUN NOW!
> 
> This morning, after work, I took him back to the round pen to work on things like "sending" and yielding the hind and fore quarters. THAT turned interesting. He didn't seem to know what I wanted at all. We made some poggress but as I used the stick to tap on a shoulder or hip, Barney decided that meant "lunge and lunge NOW" so, I got some rope burn... oh well. Since he seemed to actually WANT to lunge, I insisted that he lunge...at the speed I wanted and for as long as I wanted.
> 
> This video is from yesterday:
> 
> https://youtu.be/QE5GWNJaBYQ




I noticed him turning and you making him turn back. I don't know if you had noticed but you were telling him to turn with your body language. Standing in the line with the shoulder tells them to carry on as is, standing in line with their rear tells them to speed up and going past the shoulder tells them to turn around


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## DannyBoysGrace

I haven't read all 22 pages but I'm really enjoying the thread.


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## Alhefner

DannyBoysGrace said:


> I noticed him turning and you making him turn back. I don't know if you had noticed but you were telling him to turn with your body language. Standing in the line with the shoulder tells them to carry on as is, standing in line with their rear tells them to speed up and going past the shoulder tells them to turn around


I have gotten more precise with the round pen cues! I don't use exactly the cues you describe but, some things are pretty universal... Getting forward of his shoulder, ahead of driveline, does cue Barney to either stop or turn depending on whether I point the other direction or step backward without pointing... stepping back, he stops then comes in to me. It's somewhat close to how Clinton Anderson suggests...not perfectly so.

To speed Barney up, I cluck then if he doesn't speed up, I swing the stick. If that doesn't speed him up, I spank the ground and that seems to always do it.

To slow Barney down, I simply relax my posture and allow him to slow on his own. Often, he'll choose to keep trotting or even cantering on his own.


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## DannyBoysGrace

That's great. I thought I would point it out simply because these things can be quite easy to miss.


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## Alhefner

Spent a little time messing around with Barney today. Didn't do any real training but just more of a visit.


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## Alhefner

Working with Barney yesterday was frustrating and rewarding. I started him off by putting his saddle on and then taking him for a walk in the desert. I'm doing that to get him more comfortable out there. Just on the lead line and letting him stop to munch weeds along the way. That went pretty good!

Then, in the round pen, I wanted to work on a bit of lunging at a walk. This is when Barney decided to become rebellious and pitch fits.

Since Barney has become aware that he can pull me around on the lead line, his rebellion became more and more pitched so, I resorted to a tool that Larry Trocha calls a "come-a-long". It's made from stiff rope so that the loops around nose and poll will relax as soon as pressure is released! That is important! It is also imperative that you NEVER tie the horse with this! It is NOT a halter! The loops apply a great deal of pressure to the nose and just behind the ears with only the force you can apply with your hands. That pressure is enough to convince the horse that fighting, or pulling back, is NOT the best course of action.

In this instance, I used it to convince Barney that lunging as I directed is more to his benefit than trying to rebel. In other instances, I have used it to teach Barney that balking while leading is not to his profit but coming along willingly IS.


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## Alhefner

Well, Barney has "stink foot" (thrush) on his hind feet. After yesterday's bout of rebellion and the fact that bleach is something "new" (new = highly suspicious), I was full of expectations of having a fight on my hands putting the bleach on his hind feet.

SURPRISE! Barney paid it no mind until I had worked on his feet with the brush and bleach a bit longer than he thought was absolutely required. Even then, his protest was very slight. Perhaps it was because he was tied facing into the breeze and couldn't get a whiff of the scent. Anyway, I counted it as a win for both of us!

After that, I simply worked him in the round pen to reinforce the lessons of yesterday. This time, I used an old lariat to make the "come-a-long" like Larry Trocha shows. Not sure I like it as much as the stiff "three strand" 1/2" rope but, it's longer and makes lunging at the trot better.

Barney was still pretty suspicious of the lariat rope so, we spent a bit of time desensitizing him to that. Overall, he got used to it more quickly than he does to most other things he is suspicious of.


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## Alhefner

Ordered both the Hoof Clay and the Absorbine thrush treatment. Should arrive by Saturday according to UPS.

I went and messed around with Barney some more today. Cleaned his hooves again and no smell! Still, I cleaned them well and, until the other stuff gets here, applied bleach again. Will let his hooves rest a day or two before any more application though.

For some reason that I never found, Barney had one big spook while I was leading him around his pen. After that, not even a hint of a spook! I even led him around his most scary places at the east and south sides of the arena...nope, no spookies there! So, I led him by the horse trailers, again, not even worried about it!

Taking a big chance, I decided to try some "sending" exercises to the left and right... all over the arena and in the traditionally spooky places. Barney was a champ without a hint of being worried about anything!

The only time Barney reacted in a sort of negative manner was when I was showing another boarder where Barney's scapula was. He was fine with *ME* poking him but when *SHE* did it, Barney started backing away. Hmmm... one person horse? Might explain why I can do ANYTHING with Barney's feet, including pounding on them with a hammer, but the farrier has trouble with him. I've watched that farrier work and he seldom has even the slightest problem with any other horses.

One other thing, Barney simply does not like either carrots or apples. The lady who was there to measure her horse for a saddle (FAT Halflinger) had watermelon rinds. HER horse loves em! Barney, nope, _not a weed so it's not edible! _Mustangs!

Got video to edit and post later!


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## Alhefner

Well, it took me longer to edit and upload the vids than I expected but, here they are!

This is from Monday. I used a lariat rope to form a training/correction device that Larry Trocha calls a "come-a-long". It's stiffer than I like and requires frequent readjusting but, it also relaxes very quickly when pressure is removed...






This video is from yesterday. I simply took Barney around to his "scary places" in the arena to work on that. He did much better than I expected! No real spooks and only a couple of "worries"! Just to see what would happen, I even did some "sending" exercises in the places he tends to worry about the most and, again, no spooks and really, no worries!

Toward the end of the vid, you see me and another boarder trying to convince Barney to try eating a watermelon rind. Nope, not having it. I also think Barney may need a couple of toys to play with since he found some sort of 'tar like' thing on the ground that I had to take away from him.


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## Change

I accidently left a seed bag on the ground in Cally and Tango's paddock. The wind blew it a few feet and Tango startled, ran a few feet, then stopped at looked at it. A few minutes later he was walking around with it in his mouth!


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## Alhefner

Quite happy with Mr. Barney today! I credit all the work on the ground we did this past week! I've been presenting Barney with "scary stuff" all week in the round pen and the arena. He never knew what new and frightening monster I was gonna bring to him or what scary place I was going to insist he walk past! I had noticed that his tendency to "get scared" had subsided quite a lot.

At the ranch today was the weekly "geriatric" ride. The ranch is owned by an older man (and his son) who is not in good physical health but, he likes to ride! So, he and his wife along with three others, including me, rode with him on a short, 45 minute, ride.

After I let Barney burn off some pent up energy in the round pen, I saddled him up. All the other horses but one were already saddled with the riders on them and just hanging out. When I got on Barney, he was "ready to go places". We needed to wait for the last rider to get ready and Barney didn't like this waiting business one little bit! Pawing the ground, shaking his head, trying to move off, wanting to explore the inside of the ranch owner's truck... Anything but just STANDING STILL!

Well, we did finally get underway. As soon as Barney saw which direction the other horses were headed, he moved right out PASSING everyone to take the lead right out in front all by himself! That doesn't sound like a big deal but for Mr. 'that desert is scary!' Barney, it's HUGE! I had to chuckle at him though. He was very much 'on alert' while in the lead. It's sort of like he was taking responsibility for the whole little herd of horses to keep them away from danger.

I didn't let Barney stay in the lead long because the path the ranch owner wanted to take would be right past a travel trailer that Barney had been very suspicious of in the past as well as a few junk piles. In fact, the path between one junk pile and the trailer was only about 4 feet. So, I put Barney at the back of the string. What a surprise when Barney simply followed the horse ahead of him with little more than a sideways glance at the trailer and and one snort at the junk piles! Another MASSIVE victory for Mr. Barney!

The next challenge Barney met as if it happened all the time and was absolutely no problem. We were walking along when a fairly large covey of quail took wing just a foot or so in front of his face. Barney didn't even twitch but just kept on walking. "birds, who cares?"

The trail took us along the road with trucks, cars, and motorcycles whizzing by. Barney didn't care and the biggest worry I had was keeping my idiot dog (Dany D. Rottendog) off the highway.

We also rode past the ranch owner's homes that had so worried Barney in the past. Today, just a glance that direction and then walking on along!

Just one "sorta spook". When a recent wildfire was burning, the ranch had plowed up a wide strip of dirt as a fire break and we were riding along that. At one point, we stopped for a few seconds and Barney took the opportunity to examine the plowed up root of a sage bush. After examining it for a couple of seconds, he decided that it was "suspicious" and did a slight hop with his front away from it. I got on his case for that and made him do a circle around it... no more spooky roots after that.

Oh, he and I had our differences of opinion during the ride. Barney wants to be right on top of the other horses but, the other horses are not quite so inclined. With Barney being such a forward horse, with a good fast walk, I had to stop him on the trail often. That was mostly what we disagreed about... me wanting him to stop to let the other horses get some distance and him wanting to crowd on up to the other horses. A couple of times, Barney disagreed about me taking him off to the side, around a juniper or something, but I always convinced him that it was my way or no way and he went where I wanted. By the end of the ride though, Barney was very cooperative! No more disagreements!

If this was not the start of my week of 12 hour night shifts, I would have kept on riding! Heck, might have made a full day of it! If I'm not totally wiped out when I get off work in the morning, I may saddle him and ride for half an hour or so before his breakfast.

I've got two days worth of video to go through. I'll do the editing at work tonight and post the video's later.


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## Alhefner

On Thursday, my goal was to put things in front of Barney that he might be fearful of. I found a couple of tools leaning against the round pen, a basketball, and the new colored line on my stick and string fit the bill.

Barney soon figured out that it was a whole lot less work to try and stay still than to keep spooking since I would not take the "scary things" away as long as he kept spooking.


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## Alhefner

Video clips from yesterday's trail ride. Barney has made tremendous progress!


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## kklenk

This is so great. I'm new to the forum, not so new to horses and am 53 feeling like I'm 70. Its so great seeing other 50+ folks on forum. Thanks gunslinger and Alhefner!


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## Change

@kklenk - you need to come hang out with the rest of us on the Over 50s thread. @Alhefner and a lot of other new and re-riders are there, too.


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## Alhefner

Got off work at 7Am and went to see Barney. Today, we worked on a lot of things. First of all, Barney was still a bit spooky around the east and south sides of the arena as well as being very spooky near the horse trailers on the west side. We also worked on neck reining a bit and I worked on my cues with my legs too.

In the end, Barney was fine with east side of the arena and most of the south end. He got better about the trailers but not completely comfortable. We'll continue that all this week.

You'll see that it looks like I'm holding the reins high in my right hand. That's mostly due to camera angle! The GoPro is sitting just BELOW my sternum! I'm using the end of the reins as a "spanker" as needed and using my left hand mostly to rein Barney. He's coming on along with the neck reining.


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## Alhefner

A really good day with Mr. Barney! Of course, I had to halter him while he desperately tried to hoover up the remains of his breakfast but, once that was accomplished, things went quite well!

As usual, I started him off in the round pen for just a few minutes. Then, it was saddle time.

We rode in the arena for about half an hour. Barney tried to act scared of the east side but wasn't convincing at all. As for the west side near the horse trailers, well there was a saddle on a rail and THAT simply did not belong so, that portion of the fence line was highly suspicious.

Kim was there riding her mustang, Magic, so, Barney and I went along with them. The first part was just about a mile around the ranch with Barney in the lead a good portion of the time. He takes his "lead horse" responsibilities VERY seriously and was on high alert just in case there were monsters. No real monsters were found but both horses found that something was highly suspicious. Never figured out what it was.

After the short ride, none of us was ready to- stop riding so, we went on a longer ride up into the hills to an old cabin. Barney led the way out to the cabin and was pretty brave about it. Barney and I only had a couple of differences of opinion about which way to go but, I got my way and Barney sighed then went on.

Crossing one steep gully on the way back, Barney showed me just how powerful he can be with his rear end! Instead of "stepping" up the steep bank, he jumped up it in two big hops! Glad I stayed glued to the saddle!

All in all, I guess I spent about three hours in the saddle on Barney today. I'm not sure but, I think Barney enjoyed the adventure even though he was still pretty uncertain about it all.

Here is a highly edited video of the longer trail ride. Camera is sitting just below my sternum and that perspective makes it look like I'm always holding my reins pretty high.


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## Alhefner

Had a short couple of solo rides on Mr. Barney this morning. No other horses to gain support from. He did very well.

On the first ride, Barney went right on out into the desert! He was on high alert a lot of the time but, no monsters stopped us!

Our first disagreement of any note was when I wanted him to walk down a slope. Barney had other ideas but, in the end, my opinion prevailed.

The ride was pretty uneventful until I rode Barney right through the area just south of the arena where "monsters actually live!". He was pretty worried about it but went there anyway.

Our next disagreement of note was when I wanted to turn back to the barn area. Barney wanted to keep going straight. I think he was starting to have a bit of fun and didn't want that to stop.

On a whim, I decided to see how Barney would act going through one of his really scary places. This is between some corrals and the arena. There is a "horse eating water hose" and a very scary tack shed as well as a highly suspicious shelter. Barney was certainly worried about all of it but, he went!

It was at the beginning of our second ride out from the barn area that Barney objected to the direction. Once again, it was out toward the desert but, Barney wanted to go to his corral. Once I got it through to him that we were NOT going to his corral, he went on along pretty willingly.

Here is video of the rides:


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## Alhefner

Another really good day with Mr. Barney!

Started off getting to the ranch at sunrise. It was in the low 40's temp wise with just a little bit of wind. I wanted to work with him before all the noise from the Reno Championship Air Races started!

Barney seemed eager to do something when I got to his corral. For the morning session, I only cleaned and treated his feet then worked him in the round pen for half an hour. That allowed Barney to get some of the excess energy out of the way.

I let Barney have his breakfast while I went home to get a few things done. Then, back to the ranch at about noon.

Again, Barney seemed sort of eager to do things. I didn't waste time. Got him saddled and bridled then off to the arena as airplanes screamed around the course less than a half mile away. Barney didn't seem to care at all about the airplanes.

After a few minutes in the arena, enough to tell me how his mood for riding was, I took him out and down the road. Barney walked on out of the ranch proper quite smartly! No hesitation at all this time. In order to help make the ride more "rewarding" for Barney, I made sure to stop fairly often to let him get a big mouthful of his favorite weeds.


At one point, I made a serious error in judgment! I saw a mound of dirt and figured it would be a good place to take Barney. Turns out, it was a critter den! On the way off the mound, poor Barney sank each hind leg down into the den over a foot deep. Good boy that he is, he soldiered on and didn't blame me for it.

That first ride of the day was about half a mile around the ranch and then back toward the barn area via a path between some corrals and the arena. This is one of Barney's really scary places. He wnet on along and only looked slightly worried!

Oh, yeah, for the first time EVER, Barney spooked at a cottontail rabbit. It jumped up about two feet from his nose as he was bent down to get some weeds to munch. It wasn't much of a spook though. No spins or jumps, just a stiffening of his front legs and a sudden raising of his head. Once he figured out that it was just a rabbit, he went back to getting his weeds.


The second ride was slightly more eventful. I got on and when I gave Barney some leg, he turned so that I 'thought' he was wanting to head for his corral. I was mistaken! He wanted to go out by way of the really scary path between the other corrals and the arena! Took me totally by surprise and I let him go on out that way.


Just after we cleared the spooky path, a dust devil blew through the arena and sent a plastic barrel rolling and tumbling. It made a fair racket that got Barney's attention. I had to let him do a few circles so he could see that nothing was chasing us before he would go on the way I wanted.


For a good 45 minutes, I rode Barney up and down the hillside north of the ranch. At first, Barney disagreed with the exact path that should be taken going up the hill but soon gave up and did as directed. During that ride, I had Barney navigate through and around as many juniper trees and through tight places as I could find. Only once did he look worried and that was at a dead tree with just a couple of limbs sticking out. The ground on that hillside goes from fairly sandy and soft to very rocky with small rocks that will turn and tilt when stepped on. I took it slow and let Barney figure out that he has to watch his feet. He did get better at that but still has some way to go.


I do have video but haven't edited it yet...I'll do that later on.


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## bsms

Sounds fantastic! I watch your videos, but my Internet is so slow that I have to download them. And the downloads are leisurely, to say the least! So sometimes, I see them the next day...

But I enjoy hearing about your progress. I draw encouragement from your successes. The one and a half mustangs I own are giving me an appreciation for them. I realize they all have different breeding, but I like the mustangs I've met. The lady who worked with Mia & Trooper & Lilly said some riders don't like them because they tend to be more independent than a lot of horses. I started with Arabians, so I don't know what she was talking about...:wink:


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## Alhefner

bsms said:


> Sounds fantastic! I watch your videos, but my Internet is so slow that I have to download them. And the downloads are leisurely, to say the least! So sometimes, I see them the next day...


I know your pain! Been there, done that, will probably be there again!



bsms said:


> ...I realize they all have different breeding, but I like the mustangs I've met. The lady who worked with Mia & Trooper & Lilly said some riders don't like them because they tend to be more independent than a lot of horses. I started with Arabians, so I don't know what she was talking about...:wink:


I know nothing of Arabians but, yep, Barney is an independent thinker for sure. He's also a very gentle soul! Even though he would really, really, like to give a friendly nip now and then, he has gone to some pretty extreme contortions to keep from doing things like running me over or jumping on top of me when he's been spooked. On the last ride with Kim and her mustang Magic, Kim's dog was along. At one point, I felt Barney step funny with his rear legs. It wasn't until Kim could stop laughing that she explained that her dog had trotted right between Barney's back legs and then passed under his belly. Apparently, Barney simply used a back foot to "help" the dog move out of the way by using it to scoot her along. I did notice that Barney kept a wary eye on that dog for the rest of the ride.


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## Alhefner

Here is video of yesterday's two rides. I wanted to get Barney more used to the desert, work on his neck reining, and work on my leg cues. We did all that and more!


I am simply amazed at the rapid progress Barney is making! each day, he seems much more confident, eager to go do things, and an overall happier horse.


Though it's almost half an hour long, I cut more than 75% of total video out when editing for Youtube.


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## Alhefner

Some select clips from Friday showing Barney being a brat and being suspicious of...a bug...a rock...and a trailer.


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## Alhefner

The last couple of days have been productive and eventful for Mr. Barney and I.

He's getting to be quite the brave horse compared to what he was just a month ago. Sure, he still finds monsters to get scared of from time to time but, those instances are getting fewer and fewer.

Yesterday, I rode Barney out three times. The first time was a short ride around the front area of the ranch. Barney managed to find a monster lurking in a juniper tree...it turned out to be a magpie!

I could tell he was getting very worried about that particular tree so, I kept urging him closer and closer. We finally got close enough that it was too much for him so, he spun away from it and started to trot away.

Using a mild one rein stop, I got Barney halted then turned him back toward the tree. He went on up to it very willingly this time and there was no monster waiting to eat us.

The second ride was just a short one to the top of a small hill, down the side which Barney doesn't like to do but he eventually gave in and went.

Our third ride was out the north side of the ranch and up a hill to a ridge. The big difference of opinion there was deciding which path to take. Barney wanted to go one way...I wanted to go another. We argued about it for about 20 seconds before Barney decided to give in and go my way. Once the direction was sorted out, both of us got along quite well and Barney went on up to the ridge top then was happy enough to endure my wanting to zig zag our way back down.

Today was a "sacking out" and riding day both.

I've been wanting to get Barney used to things sort of hanging on and flapping around him for some time. I can foresee the day when I'll have gear tied onto the saddle that might dangle, flap, or even fall while riding.

Sooooo, out comes the tarp! Barney is quite used to the tarp and though he doesn't LIKE the tarp, knows quite well that it won't hurt him.

First, I again did a short session of flapping it around, letting it blow along the ground in the wind, and letting Barney mess with it by biting on it and pawing it. that went just fine!

Next, I draped it over Barney's back and had him walk off. that was a new sensation to Barney since the tarp would rub against his legs but, he wasn't too worried about it until it slid down his butt and fell to the ground. That was where he had a slight problem. So, we did that over and over again until his reactions were not over-reactions anymore.

Once I was fairly certain that Barney was not traumatized with the tarp falling off of him or being on his back, On went the saddle and we did the above all over again.

The next thing was that I tied the tarp onto the saddle using the rear strings and let Barney get used to carrying it around that way. the ends of the tarp hung way down his hind legs and tended to flap a bit.

It only took a half hour before Barney was no longer worried about the tarp hing down and tied to the saddle.

Lastly, in the sacking out phase, I tied the tarp to the back of the saddle so that it would unfurl to drape over Barney's rear end. Now, that was different enough that Barney was actually a bit upset by it. Still though, he wasn't really scared. He simply did not like something laying over his butt like that that he couldn't get away from. Again, it only took about half an hour before he was a bit bored with it all but, he was super glad when I took it off of him. More work to do in that area at a later date.

To finish off the session, I rode Barney back up the ridge and back to the barn. It was about 1.5 miles total with most of the distance being zig zagging around the junipers on the way back. Barney did pretty well there too!

He's a good boy!


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## Alhefner

It's a common idea that mustangs are known to be "one person" horses. Meaning that a mustang tends to bond exclusively to one human only.

I'm finding that to be true with Mr. Barney. He sees me as his leader and trusts me, for the most part, but he does not have anything near that same level of trust for any other human.

This becomes a problem when I need other people to do things with Barney. The farrier has a terrible time with him and so does the vet if they need to touch and manipulate his body. He's so apprehensive of other people that when the farrier or vet do things to him, he tends to panic and just blow up even when I'm there with him.

Actually, Barney doesn't like anyone other than me touching him! People who just want to pet him find that he is very reluctant to allow that.

Sure, Barney seems to understand that humans, in general, are the bosses and will, very reluctantly, allow them to put his halter on and lead him to a limited extent. That does not translate into much more though.

So, I sit here brainstorming about what I can do to get Barney to be more accepting of other people. He's not in a situation where people are routinely passing by his corral all day long with ample opportunities to get attention from them. I wish he were!

I'm really trying to find ways to solve this! It's a pretty big problem right now since the farrier had to abandon working with him the last time after getting ONE shoe off and that hoof trimmed. Barney is barefoot on that one hoof. We did try putting on a boot to protect his sole but, it's too small and cam off so, I'm getting a new boot of the correct size today. That takes care of the immediate need but does not solve the overall issue.

Oh well, I had to vent a bit. Thanks for reading folks!


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## Alhefner

On Monday, when Barney blew up about getting his feet worked on, the farrier had to leave Barney barefoot on his front left. Since the trim for shoeing had already been done, he needed something to protect his sole and the ranch owner had a size 0 boot we could use.

Tried that. Barney had it off the very next day and it simply would not stay on.

So, I went to the local feed store and got a "Easy Boot" size 0. On the box is a chart showing how to size for boots and I measured Barney's hoof... he was closer to a size 1.

I didn't even try t he size 0 on him but went back to the feed store the next day and got a size 1. It's still a tough boot to put ojn but, I got it done and think it'll do the trick!


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## bsms

I look forward to hearing how well it works.


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## Alhefner

bsms said:


> I look forward to hearing how well it works.



So far, so good...mostly. The boot stays on for the most part EXCEPT for today when Barney decided he had a need to set a new speed record running around the round pen. It came off on that run but was pretty easy to put back on.


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## Alhefner

Messed with Mr. Barney's feet quite a bit today. At first, he was reluctant to let me pick them up but, after he got the idea that I wasn't going to stop trying, he dutifully let me pick them up.

Spent time putting his feet between my legs and POUNDING on them. Mr. Barney didn't even twitch!

That just convinces me further that he's turned into a "one human horse". I can just about guarantee if anyone else tried what I did today, Barney would have a total meltdown.


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## bsms

A friend told me mustangs tend to be more cautious and more survival oriented than a lot of horses. Bandit is half-Arabian, but he is very much a "Show Me" horse, and WHO is telling him something is safe is important to him.

I like that aspect, but I can understand why others do not. But in your situation, having a horse like Mr Barney is probably a good thing...with a few drawbacks attached!


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## Alhefner

bsms said:


> I like that aspect, but I can understand why others do not. But in your situation, having a horse like Mr Barney is probably a good thing...with a few drawbacks attached!


:rofl:

Well, yeah, it is good and there most certainly are "drawbacks"! I sometimes call him "Mr. I don't Wanna!". He's highly opinionated and seldom hesitates to let his opinion be known. Most of the time, he's pretty happy to go along with what I want. Sometimes, he simply doesn't feel like doing what I want but eventually comes around with a bit of "You're GONNA do it horse!". Once in a while, I feel the need to resort to corrective methods such as using Larry Trocha's "come-a-long". Had to do that yesterday when Barney was in a major "I don't wanna" mood and was balking every two steps on the lead line. I'm certainly not big enough to just drag him on along and besides, that would not change his attitude...the "come-a-long" does change his attitude...he would MUCH rather lead nicely than try to pull against that!


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## Change

If there are people around when you're working with Barney, you might ask them to interact with him. It won't lessen the bond you two are developing, but will go a long way in teaching him that other people aren't Monsters. Just start with them touching him (sacking him out with hands), then leading him, and then when it seems safe, lifting his feet and other, more invasive handling. Your vet and farrier will appreciate it!

The only way you're going to make him easier for others to work with, is to make him work with others.


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## Alhefner

Change said:


> If there are people around when you're working with Barney, you might ask them to interact with him. It won't lessen the bond you two are developing, but will go a long way in teaching him that other people aren't Monsters. Just start with them touching him (sacking him out with hands), then leading him, and then when it seems safe, lifting his feet and other, more invasive handling. Your vet and farrier will appreciate it!
> 
> The only way you're going to make him easier for others to work with, is to make him work with others.


I'm thinking along the same lines! It's kind of strange that I'm usually the only one out and about at the ranch though. There are about 20 horses there. Some belong to the ranch but most are being boarded. With that many boarded horses, I would expect more people to be there working with or riding their horses but, unfortunately, that isn't the case. Sort of makes me sad to think about it at times. So many horses not having any interaction with humans other than being fed by them for days and days at a time.


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## Alhefner

Very short video I shot the other day while getting Mr. Barney used to things hanging from the saddle around his legs and over his rump.


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## Alhefner

Well, the easyboot stayed on Barney pretty well and protected his foot until the farrier could finish his work on Monday. So, now I know what will work on Barney if he ever needs to be barefoot.

I'm still trying to wake up Barney to "play". the other day, I was given a large ball to try out and Barney seems to be fairly well interested in it. Tried getting him to play with it today but, it was very close to supper time so, Barney was a bit more interested in watching for his hay to arrive.

Here's a very short video of Barney with the ball:


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## Alhefner

Got out to the ranch about three hours before I had to be at work this afternoon. It was still getting close to Barney's supper time and he was "on watch" for the hay to arrive.

Other than some very slight tendency to balk a little, Barney was pretty cooperative when I led him out of his corral and down to the hitching rail.

Still having issues with Barney's feet. He had thrush and "frog rot" under his pads on the fronts. I'm treating that fairly aggressively since a large crack had formed at a heel too. Barney isn't in any pain from any of it though and there is no sign of lameness at all.

After working on his feet, I took Barney to the round pen. He immediately got into his favorite gait...a canter. All I had to do was cue the changes of direction. Barney "self lunged" until I cues him to stop and come in to me in the middle.

Then, it was saddle time! I got Barney saddled up and bridled then led him around a bit before tightening the cinch. The ranch owner and a couple of kids wanted to pet on Barney. I figured it would be a good thing but, Barney wasn't so sure. So many people around him made him nervous. Things went pretty good until the little boy, about 7 years old or so, petted Barney's side. Not sure why that bothered Barney but he jumped about two feet away from the boy.

I felt sorry for the kid! He seemed to think that he had done something wrong when it really was just Barney being skittish. The poor boy was very close to tears and I did my best to reassure him that he hadn't done anything at all wrong. Maybe the next time I see the boy, I'll try doing some teaching on how to make friends with a horse.

Anyway, I did take Barney on a ride for about 30 minutes. Even though the hay was being distributed to the horses, Barney was a good boy! Yeah, he was still looking for monsters and a couple of times he dipped a shoulder just in case he needed to spin and run but, he encountered no monsters and never felt the need to commit to spinning.

Looking forward to getting off work at 7AM in the morning and going back to the ranch to ride!


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## Alhefner

Barney is well on his way to becoming a solid trail horse... at least for me. He does still have some seriously rough edges though! We're working through things steadily.

This video is from yesterday's ride(s). I edited it to show mostly his few times of being stubborn/belligerent/scared etc. He did get a chance to get petted by several of the young ladies that were at the ranch. Barney was mostly a gentleman but he was pretty unsure of things.


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## Alhefner

OK, so my last post declared that Mr. Barney is on his way to being a solid trail horse. That holds TRUE!

Monday, 10/10/2016, I rode Barney for about 1.25 miles. He objected to a few things but was still mostly OK on the trail.

Tuesday though became quite different. The day was planned for me and Barney to go with two other riders on a fairly long ride. About 4.5 to 5 miles each way.

The day was about as perfect for a ride as a day could get. Cool but not cold, no wind at all, few clouds in the sky.

One rider, Kim is an RN and on a green broke mustang. I, of course was on Barney, Lisa was on a small fat draft pony that I call "Miss Piggy".

Barney started off in the lead but soon objected to that position so Kim and her mustang, Magic, took the lead. Lisa and her little horse were bringing up the rear.

We were only about .25 miles into the ride where the trail started to parallel the highway, when things went very sour. Now, Barney has been beside that highway many times with traffic whizzing by and no issues at all.

What I "remember" is Barney bucking hard then waking up to see Kim bent over me and two county sheriff's deputies looking on. Paramedics showed up shortly after.

I got checked out at the ER and on Thursday, at the urgent care center. Nothing broken but sore as heck!

Asking about what happened, I've been told that it seemed that Barney felt the need to jump something and did so. When he landed from his jump is when he started bucking. I don't remember the jump nor do I remember coming out of the saddle.

Barney bolted back to the barn as soon as I came out of the saddle BUT, *he came back* and stood about 75 - 100 yards off watching as I was tended to! That's darned unusual for any horse to do and it sort of indicates, to me at least, that he was worried, in a horsey sort of way, about me.

I really don't think Barney was trying to be bad when he started bucking. I think he felt something seriously wrong and was trying to get rid of it. From what I've been told, I can see how that makes sense. the heavy roping saddle does not have a rear cinch and the back of it tends to flop up and down quite dramatically at times. If Barney jumped something, both the back of the saddle and I would have gone quite far into the air above his back then, when he landed his jump, would have slammed down on him pretty hard. That could set just about any green horse to bucking.

I did go see Barney after I got back from the ER on Tuesday afternoon mostly to see how he was and to let him know I wasn't angry with him. I've been in too much pain since then to go out and mess with him any though. Hopefully, this deep tissue bruising will heal up soon!

One thing I'm going to do is give that saddle and pad a "going over" and get a rear cinch for it!


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## Change

I'm so sorry to hear you were hurt but I'm glad that it doesn't seem that Barney was intentionally trying to get rid of you. Yes, do check out your saddle fit; the back shouldn't flop around even without the rear cinch!


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## bsms

I hope your deep tissue damage heals much faster than mine. Jan 2009 thru summer of 2016 was a long healing time for me!

Unless the saddle has too much rock - the curve underneath from front to back - it should not need a rear cinch to keep it from flopping. If it has too much rock, a better solution might be to cut a Wintec pad in half, then use the front half under the front part of the saddle. I've done that with Bandit for about a year now. Bandit has gained some muscle on the front, and I'm now going without the Wintec front half:










http://www.statelinetack.com/item/wintec-comfort-pad-white/SLT700631/

If you look close, you can see it here, visible below the saddle horn:


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## tinyliny

Wow! So sorry you had that scary experience. 
That's a rough landing if you actually blacked out. I hope you don't have a concussion. Please take it real easy for a bit and kind of be real aware of how your feeling. Did the docs say anything about that?


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## Alhefner

Concussion is sort of a given whenever someone loses consciousness from an impact. Yeah, the docs gave me all sorts of things to be aware of. 

I'll most certainly be checking saddle fit again! The only time I've seen the back rise up is when Barney is trotting or bent down to munch weeds on the ground.


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## bsms

When they dive down to eat, they move their spine down relative to their shoulders. Their front legs are not attached to the spine, so they can spread their shoulders apart and lower between them. Just about any saddle will rise in the rear then.


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## tinyliny

Alhefner said:


> Concussion is sort of a given whenever someone loses consciousness from an impact. Yeah, the docs gave me all sorts of things to be aware of.
> 
> I'll most certainly be checking saddle fit again! The only time I've seen the back rise up is when Barney is trotting or bent down to munch weeds on the ground.



when you do feel ready to get back in the saddle, you would be wise to wear a helmet for a few months. when you've banged your brain, you dont' want to bang it again for some time. I am sure I'm not telling you anythig you don't already know.


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## Alhefner

tinyliny said:


> when you do feel ready to get back in the saddle, you would be wise to wear a helmet for a few months.


Good idea and I'm looking at helmets. However, I'm not sure at just what point I lost consciousness! Really! I don't know if I lost it while still on Barney and he was bucking or when I hit the ground. No memory of that part at all. There was one rider behind me and Barney I need to talk to in order to get a better handle on how everything went down.

The helmet is still a great idea but, if I lost consciousness BEFORE falling out of the saddle, that means that I lost it due to the violent motion of my head and not due to striking my head so, other/additional precautions may be in order.


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## tinyliny

I know it's hard to wear a helmet Ina place where helmets are not "normal", but at least for awhile consider your brain in need if special care. 

When I first started riding again, at age 41, I had a fall early on. I landed hard, j
Heard a big crack and horse took off in the arena . Some nice person caught her and brought her back to me as I got to a standing position. She thought the cracking sound was a fence rail breaking. "No," I said. "It was just my head hitting the ground and my helmet cracking in two". 

I had terrible whiplash for days. It no concussion, no brain injury. Just the need to buy a new helmet. Cheap lesson learned.


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## sarahfromsc

Concussions can occur due to your brain being rattled around in the skull, not just from your headi actually hitting something.


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## walkinthewalk

You-received-a-concussion.

Many many years ago, my friend went off her horse and was knocked out. When she came to she had temporary amnesia.

*She-had-to-wear-a-helmet-in-the-house-for-at-least-six-months.*

That was back in the early 80's when only English riders wore helmets and we were not English riders. Nobody thought she looked dumb because even folks who weren't well acquainted knew about the accident and knew even a glass falling out of the kitchen cupboard might have been the end of her.

I didn't have to wear a helmet in the house, after my concussion. I had vertigo so bad, I would pass out just looking up to the medium kitchen shelf. It goes without saying, the vertigo made it unsafe for me to ride, so no helmet. However, non-helmet person that I am for myself, had I been able to ride, I would have worn a helmet for awhile.

Get a helmet and wear the helmet until the doctor says you don't have to. If the doctor doesn't say to wear a helmet, wear it anyway for a few months.

Also FWIW, it was long time before I could look at objects and get their names out of my mouth. For example, I very well knew what a 5/8 open end wrench was but I couldn't connect the thought to the words and say them. I could write them immediately but I could it speak them. It was one of the scarier moments of my life.

I got better but that was ten years ago and every once in awhile, when I am stressed or very tired, I will have a slight relapse.

The brain is a delicate object and we often take our faculties for granted ----- wear a helmet for awhile


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## tinyliny

Al,

how are you doing today? I'm wondering .


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## Alhefner

tinyliny said:


> Al,
> how are you doing today? I'm wondering .


Even though I'm not really physically healed (not even close), I went to see Mr. Barney today before work. I think he was glad to see me. Once he walked up to me, he wanted to be VERY close. Had to remind him that even gentle, friendly, nipping is strictly NOT allowed a few times. Horse teeth shall not contact the human!


One thing I did while was there was to pick up and clean Barney's hooves. Yeah, that caused me some pain on my left side BUT, I'm glad I did it since I think I may have found the reason Barney started bucking in the first place.


The frog in his right hind hoof has a 1/4" thick, 1.25" long, section peeled back from the front toward the rear. It wasn't that way when I cleaned his hooves on the day of the ride before he bucked me off! Barney had just been trimmed the week before and, if that frog had been cut the way I found it today, it would have cut into live tissue quite a bit! I've got to get back to the spot where he started bucking and look around!


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## Alhefner

Went to do a little work with Mr. Barney today. I'm not up to tossing the saddle on him yet so it was just a short ground work session.

Barney was in high spirits! He started off our lunging session (no halter or lead rope) with a spirited canter with lots of head tossing and a little heel kicking. Each change of direction started with a slight rear, a good head toss, and a bit of heel kick for quite a while. He was a happy horse.

Before putting his halter and lead rope back on, I decided to work on getting him used to a rope under his belly so, I tossed the end of the rope that had the halter on it over his back. Barney was fine with that until he looked around and SAW the halter laying on the ground. THEN it became a "horse eating monster" all of a sudden. I was standing at about his middle on the other side so, Barney had a bit of a spook and managed to step on the side of my boot as he tried to escape the new monster.

Well, that just would not do! So, for the next 20 minutes, I kept tossing that rope and halter over Barney until he figured out that it wasn't a monster and that I wasn't going to stop tossing it over him unless he stood still and relaxed!

Once Barney was no longer all jiggy about the halter and lead rope going over him, I called it good and finished up the session.

Went to the store and bought a helmet and rear cinch too. Man, that leather stuff is SPENDY! The helmet is a good one and cost less than the darned leather rear cinch! Oh well, it's only money...right?


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## tinyliny

it's only your brain, right?


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## elle1959

Al, I'm so sorry to hear that you had a fall, and I'm glad you weren't injured any more badly than you were. When I had my fall last year, I was lucky to be wearing a helmet, and I'm sure it would have been worse had I not been. Even with that said, I still often forget to put one on when I ride Charlie. You're reminding me here that it's important to remember. 

Hope you heal up soon and get back on that beast. How long do you think it will be before you're ready to ride again?


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## Alhefner

elle1959 said:


> Hope you heal up soon and get back on that beast. How long do you think it will be before you're ready to ride again?


Well...I'm considering giving it a try tomorrow but, that my not be a good idea since I do have to get Barney used to having that rear strap around his belly...

Barney isn't much of a 'beast' though. I think he was pretty worried when he discovered that I wasn't still on him. After all, he ran off to the barn _*then came back*_ and stood about 75 yards away watching what was going on with me. Once a horse runs back to the barn, they usually don't have any desire to go back to where the bad thing happened.


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## tinyliny

Barney is fundamentally a good fellow. he's got a bit of worry in him, though. there's a tightness in his body and his mind, and when things get squirrely, he just can't be soft about it. he busts open. It's about how he feels inside. he isn't a 'horse 101' horse. I think he is more complicated, emotionally, than he may appear. I know that sounds like a bunch of new age foo-foo. but the horse's emotional state has everything to do with how they'll react when the doo-doo hits the fan.
\
if you do decide to get on, I'd first let him have his ya-yas out in the round pen, even if it means running him until he's a bit huffing and puffing. look for him to blow out, and ask to lower his head, and lick his lips . I know you know all that. not sure why I'm even writing it. . . . just to feel important, I guess.


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## Change

In a lot of ways, reading about your trials and tribulations with Mr. Barney sort of reminds me of Tango. Must be something about being raised wild! Tango is still pretty reactive about lots of things, although for the most part he really does try really hard to understand what I'm asking him and do right. I think both of these boys will be exceptional trail horses once we've managed to work though that natural 'OH NO! MONSTERS!' stage.

Don't push yourself too fast on getting back on and riding after your injury. Take small steps until your body tells you that it can handle things. Maybe you should get one of those copperfit t-shirts to help support the ribs to go along with the helmet for the head!


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## Alhefner

tinyliny said:


> Barney is fundamentally a good fellow. he's got a bit of worry in him, though. there's a tightness in his body and his mind, and when things get squirrely, he just can't be soft about it. he busts open. It's about how he feels inside. he isn't a 'horse 101' horse. I think he is more complicated, emotionally, than he may appear. I know that sounds like a bunch of new age foo-foo. but the horse's emotional state has everything to do with how they'll react when the doo-doo hits the fan.
> \
> if you do decide to get on, I'd first let him have his ya-yas out in the round pen, even if it means running him until he's a bit huffing and puffing. look for him to blow out, and ask to lower his head, and lick his lips . I know you know all that. not sure why I'm even writing it. . . . just to feel important, I guess.


Oh yeah! Mr. Barney is pretty complex. He's a 'thinker' but only after he over reacts (why just react when over reacting is so much more fun?).

However, I've witnessed him becoming more prone to thinking before reacting so, that is getting better.

As for the round pen, that's gotten to be my routine. Barney is almost always "full of it" when I first get to the ranch so, working him in the round pen does allow him a chance to let off quite a bit of steam. I _try_ to make the round pen sessions something more than just running in circles too! Lot's of changes of direction at random intervals, putting on his halter and lead rope and working on basic lunging and 'sending' exercises and things like that. If there is a new object in the round pen that Barney feels the need to snort about, that gets worked into things too!

Currently, I'm trying to encourage Barney to be more curious about new things than apprehensive. That's a major hurdle that I'm not sure how to go about. Sure, if he is all snorty and jiggy about some new thing, I can lead him to it, slowly, and let him figure out that it isn't a monster or use some other desensitizing technique to get him used to it but, that hasn't resulted in him wanting to explore...he would MUCH rather just sick close to familiar, safe, places and things.

I'll be going out to the ranch in a few hours, after Barney has had time to get some breakfast. If I can stand to toss the saddle on him, I'll get him used to the rear cinch. If I'm still feeling OK after that, I might get on and ride around the round pen or the arena a bit.


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## Alhefner

Well, putting a rear cinch on the saddle and on Barney wasn't too dramatic. The real drama came beforehand.

After a bit of round penning, I decided it would be a good idea to simply put a rope around Barney's middle for starters. It's a good idea and lots of trainers do it. I used a long lunge line as the rope. Barney was pretty snorty at the sight of this new, thus suspicious, thing so I spent about 20 minutes getting him used to it being tossed around and over his back.

So far, so good!

Then, I tossed one end over Barney's back, left the other end on the ground then went around to toss the first end under his belly...never made it that far! Barney looked to the left, saw the, still suspicious, rope on the ground. Looked to his right and saw more, still suspicious rope on the ground.

"I'm SURROUNDED!" and off he went trying to get away.

Another 20 minutes spent getting Barney used to having rope on the ground on each side of him. Then, when he would stand still, I managed to get the rope under his belly and try out snugging it up against him... THAT was no problem at all for Mr. (I'm scared of everything) Barney. I could snug it up, relax it, snug it up rapidly, relax it, etc all day long and Barney simply didn't care.

Drop the rope on the ground? Well, then it became a suspicious thing that just might be a horse eating monster... He finally got so he wouldn't panic but never did really relax about that.

Once I was convinced that Barney wouldn't panic over the feel of another strap around his belly, on went the saddle and then I attached the rear cinch. No problem at all! The only time Barney sort of blew up was just before I was ready to unsaddle him. He was coming to me at the center of the round pen and lowered his head to sniff at a stick. Something happened and I don't know what but, Barney went up in the air, came down bucking, and off he went!

That resulted in him having to work. If he's gonna run off, he's gonna keep running at my direction for a while.

When I figured that he no longer really remembered the reason he started bucking or the reason he was put back to work, I let him stop, come in to the center to me, then I unsaddled Barney without incident.

Overall, he was a good boy today but, I'm going to let him wear that saddle with the rear cinch done up quite a bit more before I ride.


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## walkinthewalk

Well that last paragraph is interesting. It's starting to sound like your saddle is the issue, even if it's new

Give the underside of the saddle a microscopic going over with your finger tips for nails or staples -- even if it's new -- nothing is sacred these days. Look at the recall issue on the Takada (sp?) air bags

I find closing my eyes heightens the sensitivity in my fingertips. For that kind of stuff.

I might also locate a quality chiropractor to look at Barney - he's been thru a lot - anything could have happened to him. If you know any endurance riders, they always know who the good chiropractors are; some even went to school to work on their own horses.


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## Alhefner

walkinthewalk said:


> Well that last paragraph is interesting. It's starting to sound like your saddle is the issue, even if it's new
> 
> Give the underside of the saddle a microscopic going over with your finger tips for nails or staples -- even if it's new -- nothing is sacred these days. Look at the recall issue on the Takada (sp?) air bags
> 
> I find closing my eyes heightens the sensitivity in my fingertips. For that kind of stuff.
> 
> I might also locate a quality chiropractor to look at Barney - he's been thru a lot - anything could have happened to him. If you know any endurance riders, they always know who the good chiropractors are; some even went to school to work on their own horses.


The saddle is _*old*_! It's a used Ozark Leather Co. roping saddle. I've gone over it several times since I got it because it's so old that I just have to keep on checking. The fit is good for both Barney and me. I'm in the market for a new one though! I would love one that fit us just as well but with a lot less weight.

I might look into that chiropractor thing!


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## Change

I got Tango used to the saddle by leaving it on him for several hours. He was in the round pen while I did my mucking chores, groomed Cally, and just chilled in my pasture chair. He was unbridled/unhaltered and free to graze, move around, etc. Pretty soon he seemed to have forgotten it was there.

For the desensitizing - I left a tarp out in the field for a couple weeks. The wind moves it, it flaps and wads up and roams around. At first Tango wasn't having any of it and then one afternoon I figured out how it roams against the wind. Tango would bite a corner of it and drag it around! Now he ignores it because he knows it won't hurt him. Same thing happened with the 3' jolly ball. Terror, then play, then neglect. Poor ball! ;-) I've attached plastic bags to fences on windy days. We shoot guns on our range, 50' from their field. We've hung gallon jugs with pebbles inside from tree branches. Since the tarp is pretty torn up now, I may see if I can hang it up somewhere, cut it into ribbons, and make it a curtain he can learn to walk through.

Exposure is the best cure for monsters.


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## Alhefner

Change said:


> I got Tango used to the saddle by leaving it on him for several hours. He was in the round pen while I did my mucking chores, groomed Cally, and just chilled in my pasture chair. He was unbridled/unhaltered and free to graze, move around, etc. Pretty soon he seemed to have forgotten it was there.
> 
> For the desensitizing - I left a tarp out in the field for a couple weeks. The wind moves it, it flaps and wads up and roams around. At first Tango wasn't having any of it and then one afternoon I figured out how it roams against the wind. Tango would bite a corner of it and drag it around! Now he ignores it because he knows it won't hurt him. Same thing happened with the 3' jolly ball. Terror, then play, then neglect. Poor ball! ;-) I've attached plastic bags to fences on windy days. We shoot guns on our range, 50' from their field. We've hung gallon jugs with pebbles inside from tree branches. Since the tarp is pretty torn up now, I may see if I can hang it up somewhere, cut it into ribbons, and make it a curtain he can learn to walk through.
> 
> Exposure is the best cure for monsters.


Yeah, I had Barney wear his saddle for most of a day the first time. He didn't object to it even a little. I let him wear the new rear cinch for a good long time today too. Only that last thing where he blew up after lowering his head to sniff something... Oh well.

As for other desensitizing, I've had him wear tarp from the back of his saddle, tied a long lunge line to the saddle horn for him to drag around, put plastic bags on the fence (those were his favorites! Wanted to start playing with them as soon as he saw them), covered his head with the tarp, and other things. He has two balls in his corral, a 14" Jolly Ball and a big 3' ball, that he doesn't seem interested in anymore. So, I've gotten to the point that I just use whatever he feels worthy of snorting about for desensitization these days. Today, it was that lunge line on both sides of him over his back.


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## tinyliny

i think you and Barney are moving into phase two.


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## Alhefner

tinyliny said:


> i think you and Barney are moving into phase two.


Not too sure what phase two really is but, I can tell that our relationship is evolving. Barney does see me as "The Boss" sorta...sometimes...when he feels like it. 

I see Barney as a partially rebellious teenager horse who has moments when I'm proud as punch of him and other times when I feel like he needs a good punch. Many more of the former than the later.

I've also GOT to find away to get him beyond his "one human horse" thing. It's so bad that he'll shy away from ANYONE other than me who tries to get close... lord forbid they try to actually TOUCH him!


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## tinyliny

you'll know what 'phase two' means just about the time you move into 'phase three'. it just means that your relationship is not on the same footing as before. more, of an understanding developing. 

it takes something like a year to start to feel like you really are knowing a horse. a year.


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## Alhefner

Well, last weekend was super wet here in northern Nevada so, I didn't do much at all with Mr. Barney other than to visit and clean his hooves until today.

Before going in to work this afternoon, I stopped off at the ranch to do some actual work with Barney. I got Barney's halter on just as the guy who does the feeding showed up.

Mentally, I was prepared for a bit of a struggle since it was Barney's supper time and the food was just about on the way.

Barney surprised me! I led him down the hill on a LOOSE lead. I hesitation, no need to pull, Barney came right on along!

When we got to the barn, the guy feeding was coming around it on the atv, pulling a little trailer with hay. Again, I expected Barney to show some adverse reaction and AGAIN, he surprised me. Sure, he gave the atv a look but nothing more than that as he walked along with me right to the hitch rail.

The next surprise was with cleaning his hooves. As I ran my hand down each leg, Barney actually presented me with his foot. THAT is a real first! I seldom have trouble getting him to lift a foot when I insist on it but he almost never volunteers like he did today.

The 50' round pen still had a large area of standing water right next to the rail. I wanted to get Barney used to puddles anyway so, off to the round pen we went.

At the big puddle, there is about 6" of a sand ridge that's out of the water and that goes for about 20' around that edge of the round pen. Barney wanted nothing whatsoever to do with wading in the water so he managed to make darned sure his feet stayed on that 6" of sand between the big puddle and the fence...at the walk, and the trot, and a fast canter!

My only option to get Barney to put his feet in the water was to cue him for turns just as he was passing by the puddle. That worked. Barney waded in, sniffed the water, had a little drink, then went on with the turn.

I did that several times with him to ensure that he wasn't actually afraid of the water. though he would wade through it if he felt that was the only option, he never did volunteer to get his feet wet and would do his best to stay on the sand ridge between the water and the fence.

I only worked Barney for about half an hour in the round pen, enough that he started to sweat a bit, before I put his halter back on and led him back to his corral so he could have his supper. Even as we passed other horses that had hay and were eating, Barney never even hinted at balking but stayed with me very respectfully.

To say that I'm very pleased and happy with how Barney acted today is to put things mildly... He's a good boy!


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## tinyliny

days that like make a person feel on cloud nine all day. well done!


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## Alhefner

Today was just a "wear your saddle!" day for Mr. Barney. The goal for the day was to get him more used to having that rear cinch. I snugged it up so that there would not be ANY daylight between it and his belly no matter what. It wasn't "tight" but always against his belly.

Of course, I had to make a real stupid mistake right off and that turned into a lesson of sorts. I had just tied Barney's lead rope to the horn of the saddle in the round pen and then I stepped back. Well, to Barney, that means it's time to lunge. the problem was that I had not yet fastened up his breast collar and it was hanging loose on his right side.

Well, the loose breast collar was simply "not right!" and Barney was off to the races trying to run away from it, buck it off, or otherwise escape it. I just let him go for it until he calmed down then walked to me in the center of the round pen. Once he did that, I fastened the breast collar for him and all was right with the world again.

Ummm, right with the world UNTIL someone brought three donkeys to the ranch to be boarded for the winter.

Barney saw and smelled the donkeys and started going nutso in the round pen. I thought about just leaving him there to go as nutso as he wanted but then figured, well, if he's gonna be an idiot, might as well give him lots of room to be an idiot."

Barney was super keyed up and jiggy/jumpy as I led him from the round pen to the gate to the arena...all of 40 feet. He actually bolted through the gate to the arena.

Once there, I tied his lead rope to the horn on the saddle and since he was acting as if he wanted to bolt, I gave him a reason to bolt! In fact, I ran his butt up and down the arena several times and he complied with a pretty darned fast gallop. All that turned into some structured "at liberty" lunging then Barney pretty well settled down.

He got to wear the saddle most of the day. When I was leading him back to his corral, he was still pretty worried about those new donkeys so, I led him to where he could get a good look and we stood there looking fo-r several minutes. 

As we passed the barn, Barney seemed to be a little worried about that too, so, I led him to the barn door where he could get a good look inside... at the truck and at the little goats in their pen. Barney seemed to be more curious than worried by then and got a little closer to the goats but never actually went into the barn...good enough.

I think tomorrow, I toss his saddle on right away and do our round pen routine to get the beans settled then I'll ride him in the arena.


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## Alhefner

Too windy, horses too keyed up, and I just didn't feel like being in the saddle today. 

Sooo, I took Mr. Barney to the round pen for a while then, just for fun, let him loose in the arena. It was pure joy to my heart to see Barney actually having FUN!

Here are a couple of short video segments from yesterday, with my screw-up with his saddle breast collar, and from today with Barney enjoying being able to run and show off.

Some round pen video from yesterday.






Barney having fun at liberty in the arena today.


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## Alhefner

Yesterday, I got INTO the saddle for the first time since Mr. Barney bucked me out of it. That makes it just over three weeks since I last rode.

First of all, I saddled Barney right away then, with saddle in place, worked him in the round pen for a while. After that, I took him to the arena to just let him run! Barney likes the larger area and having me pretend to chase him from one end to the other.


When I felt Barney had run out a lot of his " bean inventory", I put on the bridle and got into the saddle. Barney stood stock still like a good boy!


Of course, I initially just rode around to sort of get us both back into the groove a bit. then, it was time to "do stuff".


I had Barney do circles around barrels, serpentine pattern through them, walk over poles, and such. We had some disagreements about going near the area where trailers are parked by the arena fence and worked on that too.


I found that Barney was getting lazy with yielding his hind quarters so, I worked on that with him and he got a little better...not a lot but a little.


Later in the session, I decided to try working on Barney's side passing. That's something he was taught in the prison training program but I hadn't worked on in any dedicated way. It was as if he had never learned it at all! Might have been my cues too. Anyway, I put him head on to the arena fence and we got started. It took a little bit to even get one good step and I rewarded that each time it happened. Mostly, Barney tried ignoring the rein part of things and just yielding his hind quarters so that he ended up parallel to the fence. The poor boy was confused I think. We'll get there.


Other things we worked on had to do with leg pressure in conjunction with the reins. That's something I'm still trying to get in the habit of using myself so, it was as much training me as training Barney.


Below is a video of selected segments of the ride I captured with my chest mounted GoPro camera. It sits between my belly button and sternum so, it always looks like I'm holding my hands high when they are really right about, or below, saddle horn level.


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## Alhefner

A fairly productive session with Mr. Barney today.

I started him out by saddling him right away then taking him first to the round pen for some lunging and then to the arena to _*just run*_! Barney really does like to run when he is given a reason and me being the "mean, tyrant, owner" is reason enough for him.

When I felt he was pretty well settled and had worked up a very light sweat, I put his bridle on and it was time to ride.

Started out just riding around the fence line then around the barrels. Barney was still doing his "Monsters!" thing near the fence where the horse trailers are parked on the other side so, we worked on that and made progress. He'll go over there willingly when I'm not riding him but, when I get into the saddle, suddenly, it's a very suspicious place... go figure.

We worked on backing up and he is doing better there too.

After a bit, I decided it was time to work on a few more things involving the "gas pedal" and my seat at the trot.

I did better sitting his trot but, when I'm in the saddle, his trot is a short, choppy, jackhammer, thing. When he's at liberty, his trot is a pretty well stretched out, ground eating, gait. We'll get there eventually, I'm sure.

Barney got really, really, confused when I started guiding him in a serpentine pattern around the barrels at the trot! He had always only trotted in a straight line with me before and this was totally new to him! "What? You want me to *turn at the trot*?!?" He did get it pretty quickly though. The other thing was trotting down hill! He does that well on his own but, again, this was the first time I had him do it while I was riding him.

At one point, Dany D. Rottendog came into the arena too so, it was time to play, "Get the dog." Not too sure how well Barney understands the concept but Dany has it down to a tee! She happily stayed just about 10 feet in front of Barney as I had him trot after her until she got to the fence and ducked out.

Another thing we worked on was "whoa". I can get Barney to stop with only the slightest lift of the reins but, I'm teaching him to pay attention to my seat as a cue to stop. He's getting better and is picking it up. Just once, he came to a halt, from the trot, just as I leaned back, bracing in the stirrups, and before I lifted the reins! Good boy! Barney does have a very good "whoa" when he understands what is wanted...plants all four feet right away.


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## Alhefner

The day started off pretty good. I worked Barney a little while in the round pen then let him run free in the arena before getting into the saddle.


Riding in the arena, he did quite well! No issues at all. Once all the other riders for the Friday ride were about ready, I took Barney out of the arena and we waited until everyone was in the saddle and under way then fell in at the rear.


Everything was going well until we got just about to where the trail starts to leave the immediate area of the barn, arena, and round pen to go on out.

That is where Barney pitched a fit! He started bucking and I hit the dirt! I grateful to all the people who convinced me to get a helmet! I heard a loud 'crack' as the helmet impacted the rock that would have otherwise contacted my unprotected head!

No major injuries. Just a bruise on my right side ribs this time.


There is no other explanation for this one than that Barney just pitched a fit! I'm thinking that he realized that we were leaving the barn area and decided he didn't wanna go.


I started addressing THAT attitude right away! I took his belligerent butt to the round pen, removed his bridle but left the saddle on, then WORKED HIM HARD for a good hour. Once that was done, the ranch owner helped me with a rope around his flanks to make him start bucking. We kept that up until Barney learned that bucking did NOT profit him even the least little bit.

On ending that session, I was adamant that Barney respect my space, mind his gate manners, and lead properly with NO ROOM AT ALL for fudging.


I'm now pretty convinced that he'll need very strict (not mean or excessive) treatment for some time making sure he obeys the rules every single time.

Got work to do but, Barney and I will work through it and make a good team in the long run.


Here's a slow motion video of the bucking and me falling off...


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## bsms

^^^ Can't exactly "like" it, but I sure as heck "understand" it!

Have you considered using this approach to riding position:








​ 


xxBarry Godden said:


> Years ago I was taught to ride 'Western' by an old, bent bow legged Canadian cowboy who had been involved with horses since he was a kid. In the 1930s he had been a winning rodeo rider. By the time I met him he had formed a Western riding club in Surrey, where anyone who rode horses used the English hunting seat. Kennie's first job with new members was to teach them how to ride Western on his Western schooled horses.
> 
> The first lesson was to adjust the stirrups so that the leg was carried almost straight. Enough bend was left in the knee to just lift the butt off the seat of the saddle even at the trot.
> The second lesson was to learn to ride with signficant weight carried on the stirrups at all times.
> The third lesson was to move with the horse, if it leant over, then lean with it.
> The rider sat upright and straight using the feet to compensate and resist the
> forces of gravity and movement by pressing down on the stirrups - which were almost being used as 'pedals'.
> 
> The rider leaned with the horse - if the horse went to the right at speed then the rider would lean over with the horse into the bend.
> 
> We always were to ride on a loose rein held in one hand only. The bits were all Western lever bits and we were told never to ride collected as the potential for accidental pressure on the horse's jaw was too great.
> 
> When we trotted - which was usually on level tarmac - we always posted.
> 
> If the weight was held on the stirrups, then the rider could not rise too high so long as the stirrups had been adjusted correctly for Western. The knee joint took the strain of rising to the trot.
> 
> The riding technique as described above was regarded as almost heresy by regular English riders trained by the British Horse Society. But it worked.
> My horse would accept being ridden English or Western...


It's a decent defensive position. The initial bucking motion just tosses you deeper into the stirrups and deeper around your horse. It is one of the reasons I question going shorter on my stirrup length. I like it in some ways, but Bandit gets fussy sometimes. I value staying on above getting better performance out of him...

Also: I don't always wear a helmet, but I often do and NEVER think poorly of that choice. I spend too much time on pavement or surrounded by rocks to feel very macho.


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## Alhefner

@bsms that makes sense! I may lengthen the stirrups!


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## phantomhorse13

Very glad you had a helmet on! 

If it took that kind of impact, you need to replace it. [I got the impression you are new to helmets so wanted to make sure you knew that was standard procedure.. if I am telling you something you already knew, forgive me!]


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## tinyliny

Al, 

that video was amazing! I've never seen it from that perspective. hitting the dirt. glad you had your helmet on. you will have to replace it before you ride again, at least the liner if not the whole helmet.

I had mine crack from a fall way back when I was just starting. you could HEAR the crack. quite loud. I had whiplash for days.


I think , when you do go back to riding, I'd ride in a snaffle bit, not a halter or bosal or curb bit, and carry your reins in each hand. spend time in the arena practicing the one rein stop, and when you are out riding, the minute you feel him start to hump, you disengage him pronto. 

it's hard to do with the reins in one hand. it looked like from the video that he humped up and lifted off the front feet from the ground, came down and started bucking. he's probably a darn good bucker.


you might not like me saying this, but it might be good to get a really strong rider in to ride him in teh arena, really work him, lots of moving out, stopping , turning , running. someone who can ride through the buccks if necessary. otherwise, he may start thinking that this is his go to choice for when he doesn't like what's going on.

I'm of the opinion that more firm running him around the round pen will not make much difference.


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## Alhefner

Here's the full speed version of Barney bucking me off. Happened darned quick! 




tinyliny, I agree! I have gotten out of the habit of practicing the one rein stop and I've allowed Barney to get lazy with disengaging his hind quarters too!

As for getting someone to ride him and put some more training on him, I'm considering it!


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## tinyliny

my friend was out riding her new horse, just trotting alone with a couple of other riders, (and they'd had several other group trots already) when the horse just decided to buck, threw one large one that caught her in the up part of the posting trot, and off she went. 

now, she's worried about trotting him. it came so out of the blue. it's hard when you don't know it's coming, nor have time to get the head around.

something's not feeling right to that horse, (my friend's). he is sucking back most of the time, and just sour. I don't know if it's that she is not as confident a rider as his prior owner, or what. (no change in tack, food, or locale/turnout for this horse. only rider)


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## tinyliny

how much has Barney been riden in that spade bit you have in ? I guess it isn't quite a spade bit, but a high port curb. from the video, it looks as if he hesitates (his ears never changed at all), and you lift the reins a bit, and he loses it. could it be that the bit pushed too hard on the palate of his mouth? 

mind you, I can't really see that well, so I could be way off base.


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## Alhefner

tinyliny said:


> how much has Barney been riden in that spade bit you have in ? I guess it isn't quite a spade bit, but a high port curb. from the video, it looks as if he hesitates (his ears never changed at all), and you lift the reins a bit, and he loses it. could it be that the bit pushed too hard on the palate of his mouth?
> 
> mind you, I can't really see that well, so I could be way off base.


It's a high port curb. I went to that because he would put his tongue over the top of anything else. He's been ridden in it for about 2.5 months and _seemed_ to have become quite comfortable in it.

I was just starting to lift the reins to slow him down a little. Barney becomes quite forward at times and I wanted to keep him behind the lead horses. That's also why we were off to the side since he tends to get his nose right on the butt of any horse ahead of him if we're following directly behind.


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## bsms

The only horse I've had who truly tried to get me off was Trooper, years ago in an Australian saddle with a bucking strap. I managed to get my hand on the strap and lever myself deeper in the seat - and Aussie saddles have DEEP seats! After maybe 10-30 seconds, he gave up bucking and started running. It felt like a couple of minutes, but then, things like that sometimes seem to happen in slow motion.

Bandit does his "Can you hear me now" bucks once in a while. It always catches me by surprise. I've come to like a snaffle and riding mostly with one hand, in part because it allows me to rest my free hand on the horn. If he starts a buck, my free hand pushes AGAINST the horn to shove my body upright, while my rein hand then tries to tear his head off getting it UP. So far, when his head is up, he is reduced to tiny hops - which he stops in a few seconds. It profits him not!

But I don't know if there really IS a way:

_ At a hack stable or brandin' pen
Any place you might find some bow legged men
Ask any old hand
He's bound to say he's got the answer
To the bronc ballet
If your pony breaks in two
There are certain things a fellah' needs to do
If you follow his advice right down to the letter
Your buck off average is bound to get better

*Only problem is, you can't find two in a thousand of em' that'l tell you the same thing*

DAVE STAMEY - TALKIN' BRONC BALLET BLUES LYRICS_​


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## Change

Al - 
First, get rid of the curb. Barney isn't far enough along in his training for that. You have NO lateral control of him in that thing! If you're concerned about his tongue going over the snaffle, put one on him and let him carry it around for a few hours with a little feed. He'll eat, and he'll learn he's a lot more comfortable with the bit where it belongs!

Second - and this is something I hope you don't have to worry about, but if you were able to get back up and work Barney after the fall, you should have gotten back on him. Bucking him out and working him to a sweat in the round pen won't teach him not to buck with you on his back. He's not going to connect the two actions. 1 - he's learned if he bucks you off, the ride ends. 2 - he's learned that sometimes you're just going to work his butt off and _make him buck_ for no good reason.

If he's learning anything at all it is: Bucking = no ride & "he wants me to learn to buck!"


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## Change

Double posts... BAH!


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## tinyliny

I got bucked off my friend's horse a couple of years ago. I went off so fast, so easy it was ridiculous. I had no time to get my hand on the horn. If you don't have a chance to get the head up or bent, you are in deep water. the hrose I ride, X, tried to buck in complaint once, put in three or four ones in a row. but, becuase I was able to snatch his face up and around, he didn't get me enough off balance to tip me out.

It's just experience and athleticism, and we aren't young anymore. I'm really glad you weren't hurt, Al. not this time. you're a tough one.


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## updownrider

Hi, sorry for just popping in on your thread. I hope you are ok after your fall. If I understand correctly, you fell wearing a new helmet. That helmet must be replaced. Most helmet companies will work with you replacing it after a fall, especially since it is brand new. Go back to the where you bought it and if they can't help you, contact the manufacturer directly. 

This is an older link from Dover Saddlery, that might be helpful with contact numbers. Some of the plans may have changed, but I do have friends that have recently benefited from replacement policies. Best of luck to you and ride safe!

Helmet Crash Replacements ? Save Your Wallet, Too - Discussions at DoverDiscussions at Dover


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## tinyliny

yes, I had Troxel replace the liner of my helmet when mine cracked to save my head. it cost me $25, instead of the $65 to buy a whole new helmet.


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## updownrider

tinyliny said:


> yes, I had Troxel replace the liner of my helmet when mine cracked to save my head. it cost me $25, instead of the $65 to buy a whole new helmet.


The whole helmet should be replaced. In the link I posted it says the manufacturers of helmets say someone should never ride in a helmet that has been involved in a crash. I have never heard of someone replacing a liner. 

Anyway, I was just trying to help someone avoid the cost of replacing a whole helmet. As I said, sorry for popping in a thread.


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## Alhefner

Can't find a pic of my exact curb bit I'm using but, it's sort of like the one in this picture:










It does provide for a measure of lateral control due to the hinged bars. I've been making sure he has good lateral flexion every time I saddle him up.

HOWEVER, I'm very seriously thinking of going back to the D-ring snaffle and I'll try the method Change mentions in getting him to keep his tongue under it. I like a snaffle a lot better than a curb anyway.

As for the deal or making Barney buck. I used that in a similar fasion as desensitizing to other things like the tarp over his rear end and around his legs. As long as he's pitching a fit, whether bucking, kicking, running, he gets no release from the pressure. When he calms down and quits pitching a fit, he get release.

HOWEVER (again), I see where using the flank strap would not translate to riding. Sure, he learns that pitching a fit over the flank strap did not do him any good but, he still knows that pitching a fit did end the ride. Barney is a smart guy and I can see that he could easily see the differences in approach to getting his way. IF I had been with a different group or riders, and horses, I may have gotten back on him. I wish I had gotten back on him anyway and then prepared for possibly having to ride out more bucking.

What I'm going to practice on in the immediate future are one rein stops (both to the right and left), yielding his hind quarters (both to the right and the left), and enforcing discipline with Mr. Barney.

Going to lower my stirrups too like BSMS posted. The very first time Barney bucked, in the round pen soon after I got him, the stirrups were lower than I have them now and I managed to ride that out pretty well and apply a one rein stop. I still made the mistake of ending the ride though.


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## walkinthewalk

Change said:


> Al -
> First, get rid of the curb. Barney isn't far enough along in his training for that. You have NO lateral control of him in that thing! If you're concerned about his tongue going over the snaffle, put one on him and let him carry it around for a few hours with a little feed. He'll eat, and he'll learn he's a lot more comfortable with the bit where it belongs!
> 
> Second - and this is something I hope you don't have to worry about, but if you were able to get back up and work Barney after the fall, you should have gotten back on him. Bucking him out and working him to a sweat in the round pen won't teach him not to buck with you on his back. He's not going to connect the two actions. 1 - he's learned if he bucks you off, the ride ends. 2 - he's learned that sometimes you're just going to work his butt off and _make him buck_ for no good reason.
> 
> If he's learning anything at all it is: Bucking = no ride & "he wants me to learn to buck!"



^^^^This, plus:
1. By all means replace the helmet and thank goodness you had one

2. Tuck n roll, tuck n roll.

3. Have a GOOD chiro look at him just to be sure there isn't a pain issue. There probably isn't but I would want to be sure.

4. I have heard it said that training BLM horses requires a different methodology than training a "domesticated" horse. I don't know that for fact, I just know what some have claimed that have experience with BLM horses.

5. If the bit you posted is very close to what you use? I have never used anything with a port that high. My entire lifetime of horses have either worked in a very low port curb with swivel shanks or a hackamore. I have gone bitless on green horses without issue.

6. Also, at the risk of sounding sexist -- women tend to have a lot lighter touch, even when we are being firm. 

6.1. Pay attention to how much pressure you put on Barney's mouth.
6.2. Don't ride his head - something you may unconsciously doing.


Over and out


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## Change

All, even with a swivel shank, the curb bit exerts pressure vertically as opposed to laterally. When you say you are working on flexion with it, all he's really responding to is you pulling his jaw around as the chin strap tightens as opposed to you signaling to his cheek that you want bend. That bit is designed for neck reining. 

Do work on one rein stops, and also practice getting deep in the seat for a stop and riding with weight in your stirrups at all times. The reason so many people lose their seat on the first pop of a buck is because all their weight in entirely in the saddle seat and it's like flinging food off a spoon. ;-) If you also ride with your feet and knees, that 1st lift is going to put you into your stirrups, which at least gives you time to 'get deep' and employ the one-rein stop.

When you put Barney back into the D-ring to get used to it, hang it with no wrinkles - make him learn to lift it. It may take a couple hours on a couple of days, but he'll figure it out. After that, you can either leave it there, or bring it up just a tad.

Get your helmet replaced, put your stirrups where you feel most balanced between seat and feet, and ride where you're comfortable (if not with the snaffle, then go back to the bosal) to keep him working. Ride with both hands on the reins, low and quiet, loose but short enough to take his head if you need to. 

And be prepared, next time you head out, for him to test things. 

You've both progressed a lot in a short time. This is just another one of those things you guys need to work through.


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## Alhefner

Change said:


> All, even with a swivel shank, the curb bit exerts pressure vertically as opposed to laterally. When you say you are working on flexion with it, all he's really responding to is you pulling his jaw around as the chin strap tightens as opposed to you signaling to his cheek that you want bend. That bit is designed for neck reining.


Makes sense!


Change said:


> Do work on one rein stops, and *also practice getting deep in the seat for a stop and riding with weight in your stirrups at all times*. The reason so many people lose their seat on the first pop of a buck is because all their weight in entirely in the saddle seat and *it's like flinging food off a spoon.* ;-) If you also ride with your feet and knees, that 1st lift is going to put you into your stirrups, which at least gives you time to 'get deep' and employ the one-rein stop.


Gonna be working on that too!


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## bsms

Actually, if you stand to the side of a horse and pull sideways on a bit like that, you'll see the bit move sideways in the mouth and exert pressure on the far side of the face, much like a snaffle would. It works fine with an opening rein, where you move the rein to the right to create an opening to the right for the horse to move in to.

I talked to a guy Saturday who recently sold his last horse. He owned them for over 50 years, and once had close to 20 as he bred them and started them. He favored Tennessee Walking Horses - said riding one was like cruising through the desert in a Cadillac. He also told me he didn't own a snaffle. He started all of his horses in a curb. If he bought a horse who hadn't been in a curb...."well, they had to learn".

All that said...I plan on keeping Bandit in a snaffle. I've ridden him in a curb a number of times, and he does OK, but he gets very twisty when he doesn't want to do something. It is like riding a snake. I'm not sure it makes any difference, but _ I _ feel better riding him in a snaffle.

I think a snaffle also works better for when he bucks. A hard, steady pull on a curb bit does trap and squeeze the lower jaw, and trapped horses tend to fight. With a snaffle, a hard steady pull when he lowers his head puts the bit against his molars. I can muscle his head up and not 'trap' him. Once his head gets up, his bucks turn into bunny hops.

This:



Change said:


> ....practice getting deep in the seat for a stop and riding with weight in your stirrups at all times. The reason so many people lose their seat on the first pop of a buck is because all their weight in entirely in the saddle seat and it's like flinging food off a spoon. :wink: If you also ride with your feet and knees, that 1st lift is going to put you into your stirrups, which at least gives you time to 'get deep'...


That describes what I feel exactly.

Also, men carry more of our weight in our upper body. If our upper bodies get forward of our base of support, we cannot recover our balance - see "The Chair Experiment" on YouTube. The often taught "shoulder-hip-heel in a vertical line" thing leaves a male rider at considerable risk if the horse drops a shoulder and spins or starts bucking. Once our shoulders get forward of our hips and heels, recovery is HARD!

However, if you do try feet more forward with weight in the stirrups, it also requires lengthening the stirrups. If you can lift your rump well out of the saddle, then trying that method merely creates a pivot point at the stirrups instead of the knee, and pivot points are dangerous when a horse spins out or bucks. For it to work, the weight has to flow into your heels without being interrupted anywhere and without lifting you more than an inch out of the saddle. Ridden the way way I quoted from Barry Godden's post (an English fellow who used to post on HF), the initial buck just shoves you deeper into your stirrups.

This is a video on teaching neck reining:






I find it pretty easy to teach a horse to neck rein. One change I make, though, is to move my hand FORWARD first, then sideways. the Cavalry taught doing that because the horse is more sensitive to the cue partway up the neck. I do it because my horses are used to feeling some rein near their withers, so moving my hand forward is like a preparatory command: "_The next thing you feel will be a cue to turn.._."

It is an easy thing to work on in an arena. It is easy to reinforce on a trail.

I took this picture a couple of years back at a demonstration of mounted shooting:








​ 







​ 
Also, just for fun, an Great-Grandmother doing mounted shooting. Her horse wasn't racing real fast, but I wouldn't want to cross her:








​
They were twisting and turning their horses in a tight pattern while going fast, and obviously needed one hand free to shoot. Can't say I like doing that in a curb bit, but that is how I often ride Bandit when he gets a bit wound up. He responds to neck reining like that even when he is scared and trying to get away from the scary thing. So it is pretty effective...and the only training I've had in teaching a horse neck reining is the video I posted, and the advice from the Cavalry to do it higher up on the neck.

Truth in advertising...not saying this is "right", but it seems to work OK for me - and notice Bandit has already bent his neck and turned his head into the turn, based on the cue:








​ 
I was using a Billy Allen curb bit that day, but had the reins attached to make it a snaffle. I also have no idea what percentage of time I use one hand or two - but I like having both options. Not saying anything in this post is right. Just food for thought.


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## bsms

This is from the Cavalry manual. Notice they say it moves the horse's nose to the outside of the turn. As the picture of Bandit and I shows, that doesn't happen when I do it. FWIW:


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## Alhefner

@bsms, thanks! Had to go to youtube to watch the video since no sound came across in the player here on HF but, that led straight to more videos from the same guy... good stuff.


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## Alhefner

Mr. Barney is in need of pretty consistent work. During the long days of summer, I had plenty of time even during my work weeks to provide that but, now that the days are short and the sun sets so early, I really can't provide him with the work and training he needs on the 7 days of my work weeks.

Sooooo, I've hired a young gal, who has a stellar reputation for her work with mustangs, to work with Barney during the weeks I can not.

I met with her today and talked all about Barney's various issues including his newly developed one of bucking to end a ride. She's good with that and is confident she can stay on him and provide the correction he needs if he tries it with her.


As we talked, we were right beside Barney as he was tied to the hitch rail. I guess Barney thought it was inappropriate for me to be paying so much attention to someone other than him because I suddenly felt a hard yank on the sleeve of my coat. After that, I made sure to reach over and pet _his horseness_ on a regular basis as I chatted with this gal. He was much more content.


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## PoptartShop

It is definitely hard now with DST. Hard to find as much time to ride when it gets dark so early. I understand completely! 
That's great you hired someone to help out with him. It'll help you both.  Go Barney!!!


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## walkinthewalk

Great news about the young girl that will work with Barney!

You had mentioned awhile back that Barney had a good case of thrush ---- if he is still dealing with it, that is another possibility for his misbehavior. If the thrush is deep enough it can be very painful.

That would be something important to mention to the lady who will be working with him. If Barney's hooves still need medicated, she can help with that since you have such a grueling work schedule part of the time.

FWIW, I knew people that worked 7-12's then off for a week. It sounded sort of glamorous until I saw the madmen (and women) any of them of who had a life turned into, lollol. 

I do NOT envy you that work schedule. Glad you found someone qualified to keep Barney busy while you're working those loathsome long days


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## Alhefner

walkinthewalk said:


> Great news about the young girl that will work with Barney!
> 
> You had mentioned awhile back that Barney had a good case of thrush ---- if he is still dealing with it, that is another possibility for his misbehavior. If the thrush is deep enough it can be very painful.
> 
> That would be something important to mention to the lady who will be working with him. If Barney's hooves still need medicated, she can help with that since you have such a grueling work schedule part of the time.
> 
> FWIW, I knew people that worked 7-12's then off for a week. It sounded sort of glamorous until I saw the madmen (and women) any of them of who had a life turned into, lollol.
> 
> I do NOT envy you that work schedule. Glad you found someone qualified to keep Barney busy while you're working those loathsome long days


Thrush is cleared up as far as I can tell. Still doing preventative medication just in case. Girl I hired is fully informed on Barney's currently known health.

As for the work schedule... I never want to go back to 8 hour days, five days a week. I've also made it very well known here that I'm best suited to night shifts with less interaction with customers...:icon_rolleyes:


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## Alhefner

I was under the weather for a week... not a clod or flu but, I simply could not pry my butt off of the couch! The next week was my work week so, the young gal I hired worked with Mr. 'I don't wanna' Barney. Her first attempt was an exercise in getting him to let her halter him. After that, things went more smoothly the next two times and she got to do some ground work with him.

Mustangs! They get it into their heads that just ONE human is allowed to do certain things... Barney is more adamant about that than others, I think.

I've worked with Barney three times in the last three days. He's managed to develop a bit more of an attitude problem!

First I just wanted to do some ground work, no saddle or anything. Well, Mr. Barney decided he didn't WANT to go to the round pen! He absolutely refused and even managed to avoid me driving him in circles to correct his balk.

OK, not a problem! I tied Barney to the hitch rail, which he's OK about, and got out the lariat rope to tie a 'come-a-long' on him. Well, Barney knows what the lariat is all about and for sure knows what the 'come-a-long' is! Got that tied onto him and he followed me to the round pen with loads of slack in the lead rope. Never had to yank on that lariat rope at all!

The next time I worked Barney, I put the saddle on him. I did this while he was tied to the hitch rail. He tried to protest by acting as if he was slinging his head around to bite but, no biting happened and the saddle went on.

I just let him wear that while I worked him on the ground. Lunging, sending, backing, etc... Things went well enough.

Today, Barney 'seemed' to be in a more cooperative mood. That was a ruse!

Once int the round pen, I did our standard lunging to work out some of the excess attitude then I got out the saddle. I didn't tie Barney to anything since he had never actually needed to be tied.

Well, I was just putting on the saddle pad when Barney slung his head around and actually nipped my thigh. Of course that caused immediate and quite dramatic retaliation on my part.

After we both settled down some, I tried saddling Barney again. He didn't try nipping or biting but started getting 'jumpy' to try and keep the saddle from going on. That resulted in the saddle and pad falling off and me immediately sending Barney out at a gallop and around and around with a few direction changes also.

Again, I brought Barney to where the saddle was still on the ground. He obviously did NOT want to be there but, I'm as stubborn as he is! A few minutes later, Barney is saddled and, to top it off, I put his bridle with a snaffle bit on him too!

I still wanted to concentrate more on ground work/respect. So, more lunging, backing, sending, etc...

I'm not sure just when it happened but it was during the groundwork session that Barney's entire attitude/stance changed! All of a sudden, he was a relaxed, SUBMISSIVE, horse! Head lowered, relaxed walk into me when prompted, back foot cocked when just standing... 

That's where I called it 'good'! I unsaddled Barney, and led him back to his corral. Even that little trip showed a real change in his demeanor! Every slight correction, to get him slowed down, got an immediate response! Not sure what has happened but it seems that Mr. Barney may have thought things over and come to a decision.

Well, that's the update for now. Supposed to snow tomorrow so may not make it back out there for a day or so...


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## Alhefner

Barney is a funny guy. I was out at the ranch to drop off a check and then went to just visit with Barney.

It had been a few days since I had seen him. He almost trotted over to me he was so glad that I was there.

Now, Barney is a 'nippy' horse. He nips to show pleasure, he nips to show aggravation, basically, Barney nips.

Barney also knows full well that he isn't ALLOWED to nip.

So, as I petted Barney, he nipped my jacket and immediately swung his head out of the way of the coming smack. Only once more did he try to nip and barely managed to avoid the smack by running off about 30 feet. When he walked back up to me though, he was quite contrite about it all. 

I was almost cracking up for the rest of the visit because I could SEE Barney thinking about nipping, starting to make the move, then deciding against it...

In the above instance, I think Barney was just a bit overjoyed by my visit since it really had been most of a week since I had seen him.


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## Alhefner

Went out and worked with Mr. Barney a bit this afternoon.
FIRST order of business though was getting at least SOME of the MUD off of him! Barney was coated on both sides from rolling in it.
Once a good portion of the mud was taken care of, I led Barney to the round pen. He was in a strange frame of mind for sure and jigged around a lot at the gate. Once inside and his halter was off? It was off to the races!
He did settle down after about 15 minutes at a solid run though. By the end of our session, Barney was listening and trying to be a good boy again.
I ended the session on a good note and took Mr. Barney back to his corral where he immediately ROLLED IN THE MUD!


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## Alhefner

Worked with Mr. Barney again today. Yep, he was coated in mud. Since I had no plans of putting his saddle on, I left the MUD on him. He put it on, he can wear it!
One thing that is absolutely new for Barney is that when we came up to one of the new people boarding a horse at the ranch, Barney actually went up to him all on his own! Barney NEVER used to go up to people he didn't know. This is the first time I ever saw him do it.
Of course, Barney was a bit full of himself in the round pen. A few times, he jumped into the air, all four feet off the ground, while kicking out with his hind hooves after I turned him to run in a new direction.


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## Change

Our boys must be related, Al! I swear my Tango's mom must've been a sow because Tango loves to wallow! 

And that's great news that he's now saying hello to strangers! Good work!


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## Alhefner

Mr. "I ain't gonna and you can't make me!" Barney was feeling pretty good today and was actually quite cooperative.

Didn't do much with him at all other than clean his hooves, a little free lunging, and letting him goof off in the arena.

Another FIRST though. For the first time ever, I watched as Barney turned a plastic barrel over then made a toy out of it! He played with the barrel for quite a while before getting bored with it.

The ground was too icy for riding or even serious working at all. More than once, Barney lost his footing as I was leading him downhill from his corral...poor horse just hasn't figured out how to skate yet.


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## tinyliny

this is Good! if he feels good enough to play, then, he feels GOOD! that's super. I've often wondered how he's feeling inside. to hear that he feels good enough to play is a good thing! maybe this time off will end up being beneficial to you both.
I havne't been able to ride for a bit, either (frozen ground) . I wonder if that will mean anything to X , or not.


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## Alhefner

I agree! It is a very good thing. His curiosity is starting to come out. I had the feeling for a while that his training in the prison program had caused a lot of anxiety and he simply could not relax.


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## bsms

FWIW, I had a hard time getting any saddle time in from Nov 2015 - Apr 2016. When I got to do some riding in May 2016, Bandit was a much better ride than in Oct 2015. Good quality farrier work had solved him using his front left leg wrong and started to allow him to relax his back. He had learned not to slap his feet down both in the little riding we had done and in his time in our somewhat rocky corral. He wasn't as stressed about the other two horses.

By spring of last year, he was just a more receptive horse. Not saying we stopped having issues, or that he never got frustrated with me again, or worried - but his baseline emotion was calmer, more trusting and his emotions under better control at all times.

I probably won't get the saddle time I'd like for the next few months. Although mild by most people's standards, it is still WINTER to me! And this is normally our high wind season, although that seemed to start in November this time.

I don't know if it is true, but I was told once that trees grow rapidly in the summer, and consolidate their growth during the winter. My horses seem like that. We do lots when the weather is good, and then it seems to consolidate in their minds during their "winter" break. And in some way, the care we give them during the low-riding months seems to help them understand that we aren't all about work. In an odd way, it seems like a good bonding time.

Glad to hear Barney is learning how to be a horse in his new life. I'm betting you'll see some very positive changes over the next couple of years.


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## Alhefner

Didn't do much of anything with Mr. Barney today except to go visit and look around his big corral. Barney followed me around for a bit then seemed to decide that HE wanted to be in the lead. As I was at the back fence, he turned to stand by some juniper trees then, when I turned to go back toward the front end, he trotted out in front of me and kept pace, about 5 yards ahead, until we got to that front end.

After about half an hour in sub-freezing temps, I decided to go work on tack. That involved just making sure the saddle was fairly dry then replacing the leather reins on his bridle to slobber straps and a mecate.


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## Alhefner

So, I'm leading Mr. Barney to a round pen. Everything is just fine until I feel his shoulder slam into my back!

I didn't get knocked down but it was close. Apparently, Barney got startled by "something" and lunged forward without looking.

Rest of the day was spent teaching "leading manners"...


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## sarahfromsc

Alhefner said:


> So, I'm leading Mr. Barney to a round pen. Everything is just fine until I feel his shoulder slam into my back!
> 
> I didn't get knocked down but it was close. Apparently, Barney got startled by "something" and lunged forward without looking.
> 
> Rest of the day was spent teaching "leading manners"...


This why I like a horse I am leading at my shoulder so I can watch him out of the corner of my eye. I really don't like a horse behind me for this very reason.

Sometimes it can't be helped if one is leading a horse on a narrow trail, but just leading them from the barn to pasture, I want that horse'shead at my shoulder.


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## Alhefner

Today, I met with the young gal working with Mr. Barney on the weeks I'm working and can't get out there during daylight hours.

She had been having trouble getting Barney to let her halter him. He was absolutely fine with her petting and brushing him but, whenever she started to put the halter on, he would turn away and walk off.

Soooo, I put Barney in the round pen and had the gal show me what was going on. Wouldn't ya know it? This was the day that Barney decided to be "Mr. Goodhorse"! I did see him start to resist but he corrected and stood to be haltered.

I don't doubt one little bit that Barney gives her a hard time! Today, I was there too so, that probably entered into the equation quite a lot. I did show her how I work with Barney on the lunge line and told her how I had gotten Barney to stop trying that "walk away" crap when he pulled it on me.

For about an hour, I watched her work with Barney and she knows what she's doing. Barney reacted well and did his best to learn what she was trying to teach. He paid attention as best he could even with dogs running around him in the round pen, other horses running around, people everywhere, and other distractions. That was actually quite impressive for Mr. Barney.

Dany D. Rottendog had loads of people to get petted by and other dogs to keep up with. She's now a pooped pup!


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## Alhefner

Well, didn't ride Mr. Barney today. The ground is still too messed up with ice, snow, mud...

I did work with Barney on the lunge line and let him kick up his heels running free in the arena. We played with a plastic barrel for a bit too.

At one point, I had Barney on the lead line while I was talking to the ranch owner's girlfriend at the fence. guess Barney started feeling a bit left out because he began making moves like he wanted to nip my jacket from time to time. He knows that is not allowed and knows it gets a reaction from me. Silly horse!


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## Alhefner

Well, Mr. Barney was feeling cooperative today.

I took him straight over to the arena so he could run and play. We have a bit of a game that has developed where I point in a direction, yell "HA!" and Barney sticks his tail in the air to gallop off in the direction I pointed. When he gets to a stopping place, he turns to face me and waits for me to point in another direction so he can gallop off that way.

Well, today he was galloping along the fence and there was a plastic barrel laying on its side perpendicular to the fence. Usually, Barney shifts to go around them but, today, he just went right ahead and jumped it! It was the first time I had ever seen him jump anything! So, he and I made a game of him jumping that barrel for a few passes. Barney did tire of it after about half a dozen jumps though.

After that, it was training time and I felt that it was time to train Barney using the bridle with snaffle and mecate reigns. I decided to imitate Clinton Anderson a bit with this and use the long tag end of the mecate like a lead line for lunging. Barney was a little confused at first but soon got the idea and I never actually had to put any real tension on the bit.

When Barney had the idea of lunging, sending, and backing using the mecate and his bridle, we worked on lateral flexion then vertical flexion and backing to slight bit pressure...Mr. Barney did exceptionally well!

Still too sloppy on the ground for my tastes so, no riding today.


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## Alhefner

Apparently, Mr. Barney spent so much time without a saddle on his back that he "forgot" that he can't get rid of it by bucking...

Though I didn't ride today, I wanted Barney to spend time doing groundwork with his saddle on. I saddled him up with no issues at all and then put his bridle on before leading him to the round pen.

Once there, I put the reins over the saddle horn and wrapped the long end of the mecate around the horn over that so the reins would not fall down. Then, I took the lead rope off and sent Barney out to free lunge.

On the first round, Barney took off at a gallop and tried bucking...saddle stayed on. He tried it a couple more times over the next three laps then I changed his direction. Again, Barney tried bucking the saddle off a few times...still stayed on.

So, Mr. Barney gave up the bucking idea during our time training in the round pen and actually settled into a good attitude. After he looked like he was ready, I used the long loose end of the mecate like a lunge line (Clinton Anderson style).

We worked on sending, lunging at the walk and trot, direction changes, backing, and coming in to me using the mecate as the lunge line.

An hour later, I took Barney to the arena. When I let him loose, still wearing his saddle and bridle, he spun away and galloped as fast as he could to the other end of the arena. There, he waited until I meandered close then I pointed to my right yelling "Hah! Get up!". That's Barney's signal to "Run away" and he did just that until he got to one of his normal stopping places. There, he looked back at me. I pointed to my left and yelled again...Barney was off in a flash, tail held high, and ran parallel to the fence where tow barrels were laying end to end. Those, he jumped over instead of going around them.

All in all, I spent about three hours working with Barney while he got used to wearing a saddle again.

One really good thing of note is that Barney isn't putting his tongue over the top of his snaffle bit anymore! Seems that he has decided that it's more comfortable with the bit on top of his tongue than it is under it.


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## Alhefner

I never seem to think to get out the phone and video Barney at the right time. I didn't capture him actually "jumping".


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## PoptartShop

Aww look at him go! So cute.


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## ChristineNJ

Hi ~ I'm enjoying your posts. I think you have a beautiful horse and are doing well with him. I have a question.....I ride English..... I was watching your video of neck reining and I was just wondering why when you are neck reining you go from side to side with the reins and make a clicking noise. I really don't know much about Western riding but when I am riding especially in Dressage I have learned that less is more. So I'm not sure if you may be confusing Barney with so much movement to the left and right.


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## Alhefner

@ChristineNJ Barney is not good at maintaining a straight line of travel so, most of that side to side is just keeping his nose pointed where I want him to go...

HOWEVER, you're not the first to mention it and I do seem to over do the thing so, I've been trying to keep my hands ummm...less busy...yeah, less busy.

As for the clicking, that is what I use for a cue to "pay attention horse!" but I probably over do that as well and am trying to do less of it.


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## greentree

You are so lucky that you can let Barney loose with the saddle on...ny horse would drop and roll on it, or slam it into a tree or fence!!


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## ChristineNJ

:gallop:Hi Mr. Alhefner......I guess in Dressage we are preoccupied with keeping a horse "on the bit". Not sure if Western riders do that????? 
P.S. Less busy is good. :gallop:


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## Alhefner

In western riding, the emphasis is a loose rein. When Barney does go a straight line, I keep the reins slack and my seat relaxed.


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## bsms

Seems to me a green horse needs clarity over subtlety. Clear and consistent has to come first. Refining to smaller cues can come with time. Maybe.

Mia was a pretty intense horse, but she also (when not scared or excited) enjoyed anticipating, and responding before I asked. She was always (when not scared or excited) extremely aware of her rider. When riding her with two hands, she normally was a pinkie finger for steering.

Of course, when she got excited about going fast or got nervous, she could blow her mind entirely.

Bandit - writing after riding him for a year and a half - will NEVER be a subtle horse. I don't know if it is being a gelding, being half-mustang, not being an Arabian mare or just being a different horse...but he doesn't give a rat's rear end about 'subtle'. He is capable of responding to subtle signals, but only when he feels like it. And most of the time, he doesn't feel like it. He is constantly thinking about what HE wants. Unlike Mia, he doesn't try to anticipate what I'll want to do next. Not sure he cares...

The flip side is that he never blows his mind. If something scares him to his left, he will NOT scoot off a drop to the right because he is still aware of the drop. He doesn't mind if I 'shout' at him, verbally or with cues, because he is inclined to 'shout' back.

There are times I really miss Mia. Her "_Ooooo, what are we going to do together today?_" attitude, her strong desire to please, her "_Was that as good for you as it was for me?_" expression at the end of (some) rides...I miss that. OTOH, I can ride Bandit places I never considered taking Mia because I can trust him to keep his mind. If he has agreed we're going to climb out of a wash at point X, we're GOING to climb out of the wash at point X!

Eager to please isn't his nature. He drives like a truck, not a sports car like Mia. But like a truck, he is tough and gets the job done - although sometimes needing some persuasion. He'd be a pee-poor horse for showing. A horse who feels free to tell his rider to go to H E double L wouldn't win much as he crow hops across the arena or when requiring a very firm "_Left, not right, not even if you like right better!_"

My farrier and a lady who trains horses say Bandit is more like his Mustang half than his Arabian half. Our BLM mustang is also not big on subtle. Don't know if any of that applies to Barney or not.


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## Alhefner

@bsms, actually, quite a bit of it applies to Barney! :falloff:


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## Alhefner

Long day with Mr. Barney. Got to the ranch at about 6:30 this morning so I could give Barney some feed prior to starting to work him in preparation for the new farrier. At about 8AM, I took Barney to the round pen to begin work and immediately saw him limping whenever he got into a trot.

So, Barney is lame! OK, no heavy workout as planned but, I could still do some easy groundwork at a walk and that is what we did.


Farrier got hung up at a location and was an hour late, he texted me telling me that he would be late. About 10 minutes before he got to the ranch, I gave Barney half a tube of sedative then gave the rest when the farrier arrived.


I noticed a real difference with this farrier! Even under sedation, Barney would put up one heck of a fight. Not with this farrier! Mr. Barney was actually quite well behaved!


When this new farrier got to working on Barney's fronts, it became quite clear that I had NOT gotten his thrush under control at all! I thought I had because I could not smell it but, the thrush had started eating into the soles of Barney's front hooves. The farrier did some pretty extreme trimming but did manage to get rid of all signs of thrush. 


I mentioned that I had Thrush Buster to use, this farrier said it would be much better to use bleach at this time. 


As for Barney's back hooves, those were in great shape and the farrier said it would be better for him not to have shoes on them. So, his backs got trimmed.

I've mentioned several times that Barney has a club foot. Well, I was right and wrong. His front right is what the farrier termed an "upright" hoof meaning that it does not have the growth pattern of a club foot but looks like one. However, Barney's left front is a bit of a club foot.


I also got the ranch owner to move Barney to a drier location. Barney's corral does have VERY DRY areas but, Barney insists on hanging out in the swamp! He likes to be near the fence where he can see down toward the barn and observe everything going on and that spot is pure clay mud! So, Barney is in a holding pen now waiting for the ranch owner to make room for him in another corral.


I kept an eye on Barney and walked him around for about four hours to let the sedative effects mellow out. He was still a bit high when I left but was navigating OK.

So, that was my day with Mr. Barney today. We'll see what happens tomorrow! Barney is going to still be a bit sore but, training must go on and I need to ensure his feet get treated daily until this thrush business is DONE!

This photo is of Barney after the farrier left and he's still high as a kite on his sedative.


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## walkinthewalk

Try and find something else to treat the thrush, even if you have to order it. Clean Trax and White Lightening are both good products.

It sounds like you could put the Thrush Buster in until "the cows come in for milking" and it won't help.

Purple Gentian is fantastic IF it's mixed with the right stuff and that isn't Thrush Buster, once things get this serious. 

I paid the house vet $25 for about 8 ounces of something he mixed up, used it once and I'll be hanged if it didn't start drying the deep sulci thrush I've been fighting for a long time. I may only need to use it one more time --- I have never seen anything work this fast.

Your farrier did not cut thrush out of the sole. The farrier may have said that to keep things simple but horses do not get thrush in the sole ---- it's much worse --- they get whiteline, aka seedy toe and it eats away at the hoof, spreading INSIDE the hoof wall. That's what he tried to cut outand it is likely why Barney was lame. 

I constantly deal with wall separation on my foundered horse. Wall separation doesn't mean the horse has seedy toe but it does mean the horse will eventually get seedy toe if the hoof(s) isn't maintenanced constantly by the owner and has frequent trims. 

I know you work and it's tough to see Barney every day, but try and find a way to be much more proactive where those hooves are concerned. I clean my foundered horse's hooves twice daily - every single day:sad:

If you could get out to see him every other day, it would help a lot. *Now that you've mentioned this thrush and the seedy toe, THIS is likely why Barney has sometimes been reluctant to work - "no hoof no horse" and a sore horse.*

Here's the link to a very credible article on whiteline disease, aka seedy toe. If you want to make yourself ill, Google "seedy toe pictures". Some pretty rough stuff will come up and give you an idea of what could happen to Barney's hooves, if they aren't constantly cared for.

Dr. Stephen O'Grady is an equine podiatrist and respected. 

Equine Podiatry | Dr. Stephen O'Grady, veterinarians, farriers, books, articles

The farrier should be back every 5-6 weeks so as to keep the the seedy toe under control and keep the contracted heels open. However, no farrier on earth is a magic bullet. Whenever there are hoof issues like this, it is the owner's responsibility to also dig in, keep the hooves cleaned out and medicine administered, as frequently as the hoof dictates.

While I disagree with bleach because it's very invasive to healthy tissue, the new farrier sounds a lot better than the old farrier. Plus Barney likes him.

Barney needs some time off from strenuous work until his hooves heal, no matter how long that takes


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## Alhefner

I'm certainly looking for other products to use and will look up the ones you mentioned. This farrier is also a certified surgeon for equine hoof issues so, I tend to take what he says fairly seriously.

As for the thrush getting into the sole of Barney's hoof, I saw it. I watched everything the farrier did the entire time and he kept up a running dialog explaining each abnormality. That black, oozing, hole in the sole of Barney's hoof was what he said was where the thrush had started invading...that has been cut out.

Yep, now that I know I was only fooling myself about having that thrush under control, I'll be out there every day to clean and treat!

For a while, Barney's training will be very light groundwork just to keep him paying attention and obeying cues. No trotting even and certainly no cantering.


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## Change

Just having dry footing will also help immeasurably! Thrush is anaerobic so thrives when mud and muck get packed into the cracks. You could also use simple table salt as a drying additive. I'd also recommend washing the hooves at least weekly with a little Dawn soap, rinsing well, and keeping him on a mat or other clean surface until dry. This all goes, of course, with picking him clean at least once daily. If you're working him at all, clean his feet before and after! If the farrier had to dig down to any 'live' tissue, avoid any caustic thrush medicines or you'll just cause both you and Barney more issues. Keep it as simple and organic as you can.


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## Alhefner

Went to clean and treat Barney's feet. things started out OK. Took Barney to a hitch rail, tied him, washed his feet and treated them.

HOWEVER, while I was working on Barney, activity at the ranch started to ramp up quite a bit. Soon, there were 4 horses being messed with and three burros carousing in the arena. And, dogs everywhere chasing each other around...and lots of people.

All that activity really got Barney's attention and he quickly got very excited. 

My _*plan*_ was to take Barney to the smaller round pen and simply do some basic ground work such as sending, backing, yielding, etc...

Barney changed that! He was so wound up that he simply could NOT pay attention! So, off came the lead rope so I could try to very calmly direct him into a walking round pen session.

That NEVER happened! What did happen was that Barney decided that he did want to do some lunging...at the canter! Complete with heels kicking up, bucking, and basic showing off.

This horse is supposed to be SORE! He did exhibit some lameness but, he set the pace and didn't slow down for a long time!

Eventually, Barney did decide he had run around enough. That's when I put his lead rope back on and cleaned his feet again so I could put a mix of anti-fungal paste and anti-bacterial paste (triple antibiotic) on his feet. This is something I found on youtube and makes sense. Can't do any harm.


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## ChristineNJ

YeeeeHaaaaaa Barney........:gallop::gallop::gallop:


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## walkinthewalk

One of these days Alice, I'm going to send this lousy IPad to the moon

<sigh> onward and upward after the stupid thing wiped out everything I typed:beatup::beatup::beatup::beatup:



> *This horse is supposed to be SORE! He did exhibit some lameness but, he set the pace and didn't slow down for a long time!
> *


Barney is still lame and sore, lollol. There were times when Joker was dead lame from founder that something would spook him. I would see him buck up and take off at a lame gallop<------if you can imagine THAT and the heart failure it gave me.

It's doubtful Barney did any damage to himself unless he managed to come down on a sharp stone in just the right place---- and we all know horses have a knack for finding "just the right place" ten times over which, in turn, costs us more money


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## Zexious

Barney is the cutest!
He looks like a wooly mammoth <3!

Keep us updated on his feet!


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## Alhefner

walkinthewalk said:


> It's doubtful Barney did any damage to himself unless he managed to come down on a sharp stone in just the right place---- and we all know horses have a knack for finding "just the right place" ten times over which, in turn, costs us more money


LOL. He did no harm to himself. One reason I chose the small round pen, other than it being smaller, is that there are very few rocks in it and I haven't found any with sharp edges.

Gonna go invest in some matting to put in his corral today. With all the rain and we've had and are about to get, dry spots are very few and far between! Even the steeper hillside corrals are muddy! 

One thing about all of this is that I now have ideas for my own property when I move out there...major french drains EVERYWHERE!


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## Alhefner

Well, well, well. Mr. "I ain't gunna and you can't make me" Barney seems to have over done things yesterday with all his carousing.

Today, he was very sore! Especially on his right front. I cleaned and treated all four feet but as I was working on his left front, Barney started to lean HARD on me trying to take pressure off of his right front foot. I still got it done but it was a close call!


When it was time to take him back to his pen, he didn't want to go and balked hard. Soooo, out came the lariat rope. Barney knows what that is about and tried to pull away. That didn't work out for him and I got the rope fashioned into a "come-a-long".

With the come-a-long on him, Barney only tried twice to balk before deciding it was a better idea to be Mr. Goodhorse.


Tomorrow I'm laying down a bunch of stall mats to ensure he has an absolutely dry area to stand!


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## walkinthewalk

One thing you could do that seems to make a huge difference in comfort level, is to fold a bath towel twice and put it under the opposite hoof you are working on. Even if you get the mats, still use the towel. 

Also, if Barney like to lean, see if you can get him to lean against the pipe panel, as long as it's solid enough to hold him. 

My little Arab had an injured vertebra that always caused him some level of discomfort. I always put next to a wall so he could lean when the farrier trimmed him. Sometimes he would lean, sometimes not but the choice was his and it made for a lot less stress on all of us


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## Alhefner

Barney isn't a leaner at all really. It's just that his other side bothered him a lot and he wanted to get the weight off of it.

HOWEVER, your suggestion of providing something for him to lean against, besides me, is a good one!


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## Alhefner

Well, Mr. Barney was feeling a bit better today. Not so sore and lame as yesterday. I bought 6 stall mats to place on the ground in his temporary pen so he has a place to get out of the mud. Not too sure if he'll actually do that or not but, he has em to use.

Oh, those stall mats are HEAVY! Not something I want to be moving around often...


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## tinyliny

those mats are something like 100 lbs each, aren't they? like moving a dead body! (not that I'd know what that was like!)

(which makes me remember a bumper sticker I once had. it went like this:

"Friends help you move. Good Friends help you move bodies"


I thought that was funny, but when I showed my Japanese friend, it went way over her head.


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## Alhefner

tinyliny said:


> those mats are something like 100 lbs each, aren't they? like moving a dead body! (not that I'd know what that was like!)
> 
> (which makes me remember a bumper sticker I once had. it went like this:
> 
> "Friends help you move. Good Friends help you move bodies"
> 
> 
> I thought that was funny, but when I showed my Japanese friend, it went way over her head.


Yep, about 100 lbs. All around hard to handle!


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## walkinthewalk

And that is why I buy grid mats for the stalls in the barn. The holes may fill up with shavings but the urine still seeps down, into several inches of crush.

By all that's right, clean and healthy, solid mats (like in Barney's outside pen) should be removed at least every six months to be cleaned, and the stall floor re-leveled if needed.

Whelllllll, I don't know anyone living in this house willing or able to do that, lollol

We hired two 30-something guys to put the new grid mats in, last Fall; I got ten years out of my first mats and they weren't as good as the new ones.

The mats are 5 X 7 and ~3/4" thick. It took both guys to manhandle each mat off the truck and carry them into the stalls.

If I get at least ten years from these new mats, my horses will be 32 & 33, and I'll be 80 if we're all lucky---------------------


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## sarahfromsc

Vice grips help when man handling stall mats.


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## Change

Ugh! Mats. I hate trailer cleaning if I have to do more than roll them up to clean under them!

And *Al*, if Barney is anything like Tango, he'll be dragging those mats around just because they're something new to play with! ;-)


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## Alhefner

Change said:


> And *Al*, if Barney is anything like Tango, he'll be dragging those mats around just because they're something new to play with! ;-)


From what I saw, there is a definite possibility that he'll have them rearranged by morning...


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## Alhefner

For the longest time, I thought Mr. Barney had no interest in toys.

I was wrong! Even though he's sore and lame, he had no problem playing with this one.


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## Alhefner

Poor Barney. Being cooped up in a small pen is driving him stir crazy. Yeah, it's for his own good to allow his feet to heal up from bad thrush but, there are consequences!

Since he no longer seemed to be limping or even a little lame, I took "His Horseness" to the round pen after cleaning and treating his feet yesterday. As soon as I had his lead rope off, Barney took off running, bucking, and kicking up his heels in exuberance. It was loads of fun to watch!

As he ran around just carousing, I decided to leave the round pen to go do some cleaning in his pen. Walking toward the gate, I watched as Barney lowered his head and charged right toward me! I'm sure it was all meant to be good horsey fun but, that simply is not acceptable behavior!


Soooo, I turned on him aggressively! For the next five minutes, I did my best to make Barney think that he was one very hurt horse if I managed to catch him. When I finally let off the pressure, he tentatively came to me in the center of the round pen nice and calm. I petted him to let him know that no hard feelings persisted.


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## Alhefner

So, the weather has been so wet, the ground so icy and rough for footing, that I haven't even thought of riding for well over a month! Nevada has had real record breaking snow and rain in this area...heck, the snow pack in the Sierra mountains is WELL over 200% of average!

Anyway, observing Barney when I work with him on the ground. It appears that he has reverted quite a bit to behaviors indicating that he has forgotten, or abandoned, a lot of his basic training...fearful, disrespectful at times, very high energy, nervous...etc.

Most of it is, I think, due to the fact that for a while, he's not had his usual 1/4 acre corral to run around in but is cooped up in a small holding pen in order to help recover from bad thrush...poor guy just can't run off any energy!

I'm seriously considering going all the way back to square one with his training. Treat him as if he is just now to the point of being handled but has no ground training at all.

I know, I know, he is far beyond that in reality but, I think there may be some real advantage in going back to the very beginning. Give him reinforcement in basic obedience and acceptable behavior and such as that.

It really won't take long to do such a thing...I think! It's all stuff he has already learned. the days are getting longer and I should be able to dedicate time even during my work weeks now to do more intensive training.

Today, I'll go out to the ranch for a few hours and make more observations, do some more training, come to a decision...


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## Alhefner

Mr. Barney's thrush seems to be all cleared up and his feet are looking very good! Still loads of snow and lots of mud out where he's boarded. Things could be much worse, many areas in my area are still under water!

I've made three rope halters so far and here is Mr. Barney wearing one I adjusted to fit him:


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## Alhefner

Well, well, well... got major decisions to make. One of the boarders at the ranch where I keep Barney has to move east for a job but is unable to take his two horses.

One of them, Romeo, a chestnut gelding of unknown parentage is known to be a very stable and well mannered horse. Never has bucked that anyone knows of.

This guy is also a beginner rider and has ridden Romeo all over the area by himself with no problems.

So, the question becomes:

"Can I afford to keep two horses? Keep training Barney while using romeo as my "go to" riding horse."

"If I can't afford to keep two horses long term, can I afford to keep Barney and keep his training up until I get his title from the BLM then find him a GOOD, DEDICATED, owner?"


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## Alhefner

Poor Barney! He's sooo out of shape from the inactivity of winter and being in such a small corral.

After some work in the round pen that had him breathing a bit hard, I took Barney to the arena so he could just kick up his heels and run!

Barney had a great time and really did do some pretty serious running around but, half an hour after he had decided to just chill out, he was still breathing a bit harder than normal.

Oh! Another "first" for Barney too! Our normal path from Barney's corral was blocked by the ranch ATV and Barney was super worried about going the long way around by all the other corrals he hasn't visited before soooo, I took a chance and led Barney through the barn. This was his very first time actually doing more than taking a couple of steps into the barn and going all the way from end to end. Barney was a champ! No jigging or dancing around though he was pretty unsure of a few things he saw in there. He didn't try to charge out the other side but walked quite calmly.


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## Change

Congrats on Barney handling the scary barn!


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## OldEnduranceRider

Hey AlHefner, I just stumbled across your journal, I did not go through the entire 30 something pages, did you ever get yourself set up on your 80 acres?? We are Off-Grid also. Bought some acreage in 2003, but it had a pad for a house, well was in, and an improved road to the property. Husband lived in a trailer for 3 years, I commuted for 3 years, only coming up here on the weekends. Now we are pretty well set up.


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## Alhefner

OldEnduranceRider said:


> Hey AlHefner, I just stumbled across your journal, I did not go through the entire 30 something pages, did you ever get yourself set up on your 80 acres?? We are Off-Grid also. Bought some acreage in 2003, but it had a pad for a house, well was in, and an improved road to the property. Husband lived in a trailer for 3 years, I commuted for 3 years, only coming up here on the weekends. Now we are pretty well set up.



Not set up yet! I've changed the plan from using my 80 acre parcel in Humboldt county, NV to using my 57 acre parcel in Pershing county, NV. The smaller parcel is FLAT and has a really good county road right to it. No well or home foundation yet either but, I'll get there eventually. Gonna sell the 80 acre parcel.


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## Alhefner

Barney was a really good boy today! I got to the ranch about 11AM, so he had a chance to finish his breakfast, and took Barney from his pen to the round pen. Yeah, he balked a couple of times but just a little bit of running him in circles ended that.

Once in the round pen, I took the lead rope off of Barney's halter and let him go! Off he went, running, bucking, kicking, and generally carousing. I encouraged all of that activity! For a good half hour, I made sure that Barney was really putting effort into it all. When I finally signaled an end, Barney trotted to the center of the round pen to me.


With a good bit of excess energy now spent, I took Barney to a hitch rail where I got to work on his layer(s) of mud! Getting him clean enough for a saddle took almost an hour! That horse was coated. I cleaned his feet and applied "Thrush Buster" as a preventative treatment. Things are still quite wet in most places on the ranch.


With his fur and feet clean, it was time for the saddle. Barney stood like a good boy as I got him dressed then it was back to the round pen...yeah, he balked a couple more times and again, a bit of "on the spot" lunging got him going placidly enough. Once you get his feet moving when he wants to stand still, it tends to change his attitude...like Clinton Anderson says, move their feet to change their mind.

For the next four hours, Barney wore his saddle as I put him through various "ground work" exercises such as backing, staying, come in, sending to the left and right, sending him between me and the fence, lateral flexion (which he does but hates), desensitizing to the stick and string being flung over him, around his legs, and smacked hard to the ground very close to his feet. There was also plenty of lunging as well as plain old round pen cantering and trotting.

The owners of three burros showed up to work with them and Barney is super interested but also super suspicious of those strange critters. He wanted to watch them but, he was also very scared of any possibility of getting close to them. Silly horse! He wants to go see every dog that comes around but another kind of equine scares him?


If Barney is as cooperative tomorrow as he was today, it's TIME TO RIDE!


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## Alhefner

I'm super impressed with Mr. Barney's willingness these last two days!

Today, I took Barney straight to the round pen to let him run off excess energy and get into a "thinking" mood. Horses are NOT natural thinkers, folks. Their natural thing, as a prey species, is to be highly reactive without applying much thought to anything. So, getting a horse to start thinking instead of being totally reactive is sometimes difficult. I can say, that once Barney has done some running, he does start to think things over quite a bit.

After a good session in the round pen, I took Barney to the hitch rail and cleaned him up and put his saddle on. then, it was back to the round pen for some basic ground work.

It wasn't long before I knew Barney was ready so, on his back I went. Barney was a good boy! He stood still while I got on and waited for me to press my heels to his sides before walking off.

We eventually went on over to the arena to have more room to move around. Though Barney sometimes disagreed with what direction we should be going, he never objected to going or stopping. I ALWAYS won the argument over direction!

The entire time riding was about three hours. Nothing at all strenuous except when Dany D. Rottendog wandered into the arena far enough that I could get Barney into a trot to play "Get the dog!". Barney is still not sure of that game but, he's figuring out that Dany is the "goal".

Tomorrow, more arena time and then riding around on the ranch!


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## tinyliny

Four hours of groundwork? Be careful or you run the risk of souring him , as he got before


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## Alhefner

And as usual, I did neglect to write in all the BREAKS and other "just hanging out" activities that we did during that four hours... I must make sure to write EVERY LITTLE DETAIL OF EVERY LITTLE SESSION I have with Barney so @tinyliny know just exactly EVERYTHING we do!


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## Alhefner

Pending a vet check, it looks like I'll be getting my second horse.

It's Willy. I went out and rode him this afternoon. Had to "adjust" the saddle quite a bit since Willy is such a WIDE boy!

Rode him around quite a bit at a walk and trot. He's got a really smooth "gas pedal" and stays at what ever speed you set him into until told to do otherwise.

I found that if I was really careful I could get Willy into a slow trot that was smooth as can be! He also has the standard jackhammer trot too. 

Willy went everywhere I pointed him. There was one "monster" in the form of a big piece of landscape cloth hanging from a shelter and flapping in the breeze but it wasn't a huge deal. Willy didn't panic.

Sort of felt bad because after I got all the tack off of Willy, he was looking at me with the clear expectation of a treat and I didn't have any...poor boy!


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## tinyliny

congratulations! love his ears.


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## Alhefner

Looks like I'll be bringing Willy to live with Mr. Barney on Sunday. Can't arrange transport before that. That means he'll basically have a week of lazing around with Barney in their corral (almost 1/4 acre!) until next Friday when I start my week off.

I start my week of 7 nights of 12 hour shifts this Friday night. I should be able to get out to the ranch to do some groundwork with both Barney and Willy in the afternoons before work a couple of days...if I'm not too wiped out from work!

Also, since the weather is getting better, the young gal I hired to work him during my work weeks should be able to put more time in with him.


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## Alhefner

On Friday, I was out just messing around with Mr. Barney. The plan was to let him blow off steam, clean his feet and apply Thrush Buster as a preventative, let that soak in and dry, and do a bit of ground work.

Everything went quite well until I decided to check Mr. Barney's feet a second time after applying the Thrush Buster. He had been standing at the hitch rail and was getting a bit bored.

I went up to him, petted a bit, then bent over to check his front right. That's when Mr. Barney decided to let me know that he was bored. He was in the process of picking up his foot for me but he also decided a little nip to my butt was in order to speed things along!

Now, Mr. Barney is WELL aware that horse teeth meeting any part of the human results in an immediate SMACK on his jaw. But, he tends to forget that part until he has already committed the crime. Then, he remembers and tries to avoid the smack in the 1/4 second between the nip and the human's retaliation...

He almost never manages to avoid getting smacked and didn't do so this time either but, he did try in the form of hunkering down while pulling back with all his little horsey self could manage. The lead rope and rope halter I made held well and I was about to yank everything loose ( tied with slip knots) but Barney let up on trying to get away before I got that far.

I let him chill for a couple of minutes then went back to checking his feet without any issues at all.

That's twice Barney has put things to the test recently. Not sure if he's learned much by doing so. I hope he has.


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## Change

Good on ya for not letting Barney get away with the nip. Tango is lippy, and gets a finger flick every now and then to remind him that playing with my parts isn't acceptable. He's never actually tried to nip, but I figure it's better to let him know that his mouth stays closed when near me.


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## greentree

I am seriously afraid that you are inadvertently rewarding bad behavior. It is why you keep having these problems.


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## ChristineNJ

Your new horse looks great. Looks like a very solid horse! Pretty color also!


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## Alhefner

greentree said:


> I am seriously afraid that you are inadvertently rewarding bad behavior. It is why you keep having these problems.


Well, maybe so but I don't see how unless a good hard smack to the jaw is some sort of reward.


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## Alhefner

Got Willy moved today. He loaded right up into the slant load trailer and BARELY FIT! A straight load might have been a better option if I had one to use. When I got him to the ranch where I board Mr. Barney, Willy backed right out like he had done it a million times.

Instead of taking him straight to his new corral to meet Barney, I walked Willy around a bit so he could see the other horses and get a good snoot full of all the new smells. When we got to the burros, Willy was OK until one of the raised a ruckus and then Willy spooked. It wasn't a bad spook, he only skittered about 5 feet the stopped to wait for me.

Barney was super interested when I brought Willy to the corral. I just got Willy inside then let him loose. Barney and Willy sniffed a bit then Willy found a spot for a good roll. Once his rolling was done, Willy started a careful exploration of his new digs with Barney right there with him.

Here's a short video of the two of them:


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## Alhefner

Mr. Barney is just a tiny bit jealous! I went to mess with the boys, Barney and Willy, before work this afternoon. Mostly, I wanted to clean and treat Barney's feet and then get him to blow off steam in the arena. All that went well.

After taking Barney back to the corral he shares with Willy, I simply hung out with them. I found that any time I was petting, or even near, Willy, Barney would be right at my opposite shoulder wanting attention too.

Both of them do get along pretty well. When I left, they were eating their supper side by side.


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## walkinthewalk

I'm glad they get along. It's obvious right from the beginning of the video, that Willy is going to be the decision maker and Barney is ok about that. 

Now that you have two, take part of your training times to just sit and watch them interact. I never grow weary of watching my horses interact. It was a real tearjerker when I laid Duke to rest, then Streeter 15 months later. Rusty had been with them his entire life, he was third in the pecking order. That horse was so lost everyday, even though the number four horse was/is still with him, that I didn't think he would ever snap out of it.

He realized he didn't want to lead, even though Duke had groomed him for a good year prior to his passing. It took Rusty well over a year to decide he would go into the far pasture to graze ---- that was Duke's favorite place and Rusty still won't go up on the high ridge.

Last week, when we had those 100 MPH straight line winds (that's what the weatherman said), a lot of hail, and a frog strangler of a rain, I saw Rusty gather Joker well ahead of the storm so I knew it would be a doozie. When the hail started, he ordered Joker into the barn. It was all a great sign that Rusty has come to terms with and accepted his responsibility.

I still learn something about training every day from my last two horses. Take some time to marvel and learn from Barney and Willie


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## Alhefner

A few random thought on my horsemanship...or, lack thereof...

Over the last year plus, since I decided to get back on horses, I've done a whole lot of research in the form of being here, checking out videos of various famous, infamous, and other trainers and riders. All of which is an attempt to increase my knowledge base of horses and how humans best interact with them.

The videos are great. The advice I get here on the forum ranges from superb to...well...let's leave it there.

However, over the last few months, I have come to the realization that it is my own *FEAR* that is the largest obstacle to progress. Such a thing is neither new or uncommon. It happens to loads of people. The big thing is, getting *PAST* it!

So, to get past that fear, I must identify it. That, I've done! My huge fear is of falling off my horse and getting seriously hurt. The falling off thing has happened twice already. Though I was knocked unconscious once, I really was not seriously hurt...yeah, yeah, I was bruised up and in some pain for a while but, no broken bones, no brain injury, so I count it as "not a huge ordeal".

However, those two instances of hitting the ground from a bucking horse did shake the small amount of confidence I had gained right out of me and it set my personal progress way back!

That is the main reason I bought Willy. A seasoned, steady, well broke, non-rebellious, horse that I can ride and gain that confidence back, hopefully displacing my fear.

My "goal" is to get back tot he confidence I had as a teen! That carefree abandon where I would hop onto the back of my mare, Star, bareback and send her into a flat out gallop without a care in the world. Will I get there at my age? It's ummmm....doubtful but, _it's a goal_.

Until now, I have done nothing more daring than riding at a walk and a bone jarring, jackhammer, trot without knowing how to post to that trot. Not once since I started riding again have I take n any horse into a canter.

From my research, not getting the horse to canter has been a huge, huge, mistake! What holding the horse back seems to do is allow frustration to build that eventually explodes and the horse acts out. That MIGHT be part of why Barney decided to start bucking...part of why.

So, an interim goal is that by the end of April, I will have Willy cantering on a regular basis and ME staying in the saddle! Might require some butt Velcro for that!

Anyway, those are my random thoughts for now....


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## walkinthewalk

And I'm only going to burst part of that bubble, lol

If you've ever mentioned a partner living with you, I missed it. You have every reason to be concerned and somewhat worried about injury because:

A. Younger none of us are getting.

B. At our age (I'm older than you. Being alone and being seriously hurt is not a good thing. Add animals that need cared for to the mix and there's serrous proggums <------ that's "serious problems" conjugated to the second power

When I was knocked flat out in 2006 and woke up to the EMT playing 20 questions with me, I blew it off until my own doctor saw my CT's and mildly blessed me out. He said he had seen roofers fall off roofs, who suffered nearly identical head injuries and didn't survive.

I wasn't able to get to the barn for three weeks --- a lifetime record for me. The world stops if I miss a day.

Had I not had my husband to do everything in the house, at the barn, the yard, AND he still went to work, I'd've been in big trouble.

So yes, be concerned, especially if you live alone and don't have family or friends nearby to help. But on the other hand, you can't let that concern eventually control you. Find a balance of fear that keeps you safe without lording it over you

I hope Willy works for your needs


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## Alhefner

Spent about 5 hours with the boys, Willy and Mr. Barney, out at the ranch today. Both were mostly good boys with a bit more attitude from Barney.

I cleaned up Willy then took him to the round pen for some lunging and working on groundwork cues. He tried! We made some progress and I called it good on a good note. After that, it was time to put on the saddle and do some riding!

At first, I just rode Willy in the arena and he did really well there so, I decided to take him out into the desert brush. First, I simply led him around to get a feel of any anxiety he might have. Again, he did well so, I got into the saddle and rode Willy around the rabbit trails.

On the way back to the barn area so I could take a bit of a smoke break, Willy got in a little bit of a hurry. That's OK. If he wants to hurry back then he can keep on hurrying, even a bit faster, for a good while once he gets to where he was hurrying too. Then, he can hurry away from where he thought he wanted to be and rest...then hurry back, keep hurrying once there, then hurry away to rest.

After my smoke break, I got back on Willy and took him around different rabbit trails and on the trail along the highway. Found out that Willy is a bit worried about the fast moving vehicles on the highway. He didn't try to get away from it or balk but he wasn't comfortable about it. I didn't force the issue for long but angled Willy away from the highway and back toward the barn area.

Still, Willy got in a bit of a hurry to get back so, we repeated the "If you're in a hurry to get there, you can be in more of a hurry once you do get there." routine for a while before I called it good.

Next, it was Mr. Barney's turn. I cleaned him up and put the saddle on him right away. Now, Mr. Barney is quite a bit less round than Willy so, I needed to rearrange the latigo for the front cinch to shorten things up. My inattention to what I was doing there just about came to disaster! More on that later.

Leading away from the hitch rail toward the round pen, Barney decided to plant all four feet and not move. The first time, I got his feet freed up by running him in circles on the lead line but the second time I had no such luck. Sooooo, I put Barney back on the hitch rail and got my lariat rope to fashion what Larry Trocha calls a "come-a-long".

The "come-a-long" is a highly effective tool and Mr. Barney knows ALL about it. Once I got it on, I untied Barney and with both the lead line and the "come-a-long", I started leading Barney toward the round pen. the very first time I felt ANY tension on the lead line, I yanked hard on the "come-a-long" and Mr. Barney changed his tune...for about 20 feet. The second time I felt the lead line going tight, I yanked on the "come-a-long" but Barney had already figured it out so he had started moving right along and never felt the pressure of it.

We got to the round pen with no further dramatics on Barney's part. My plan was to lunge Barney to get excess energy out and then hop on to ride. Everything was going very well for the first five or so minutes then, all of a sudden, Barney started to buck! Barney kept going and then got into a really fast canter. It took me a while of watching before I found out what the problem was. When I had refastened the latigo for the right side of the cinch, I had to double it to make it short enough but, I hadn't done so correctly and everything was starting to come undone!

Barney had NO INTENTION of slowing down either! All I could do was relax my posture, watch, pray, and wait. Fortunately, Barney did slow and then calm down to come in to me BEFORE that cinch came completely undone and the saddle turn under him with the front dragging the ground.

I was so relieved that I just took the saddle off Barney and called it good for the day!


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## Change

Oy! We've had the saddle disaster more than once. The first time was my sister, when she was about 8, riding a very fat pony. Her saddle started slipping to the side at a trot. The pony didn't slow down and my sister stayed in the saddle - even when we finally got the pony stopped. My sister was still clinging to that saddle, underneath that pony, with her pony-tail dragging the ground! 

My personal disaster happened when I was in my late 20s/early 30s. I was riding my absolutely trustworthy most favorite horse I've ever owned. My off-side billet for the front cinch broke, the rear cinch slid back and became the equivalent of a bucking cinch, and boy-howdy, did my absolutely trustworthy most favorite horse show me that he could have made it at the NFR as a saddle bronc! He dove, sun-fished, and threw me a good 10 feet up in the air over his butt! I was so astonished that he even bucked that I didn't even feel it when I hit the ground. It wasn't until he managed to buck the saddle back and over his butt that I realized what had happened. Oh - and the next day... yeah. I felt it. ;-) 

Needless to say, I always double check all my billets and latigo for wear and correct fastening now. If my steady steed could NFR me, then my less trustworthy horses (all, since him) could do much, much worse.


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## Alhefner

Well, didn't ride today. too windy and cold and my heart just wasn't into riding. HOWEVER, I did work with both Barney and Willy.

With Barney, I cleaned his feet, put on the "come-a-long", and headed to the round pen. Like I've said, Barney knows EXACTLY what the "come-a-long" does so he led on a loose line the whole time and didn't even think about balking...well, maybe he thought about it but he sure didn't try it. I think for a good month, the "come-a-long" will just be a part of his tack while leading to places he tends to balk going to.

Barney did really good and he was a very good boy. We worked on yielding the fore and hind quarters. Barney isn't "good" at it but he does try, which gets rewarded, and he's showing progress. We also worked on backing, sending, and basic lunging. For a reward, I let Barney carouse in the arena and graze on the fresh, green, grass sprouting along the fence and in a couple of other places.

When I took Barney back to his corral and get Willy for his turn, Willy was laying down, just relaxing. I figured he would get up when Barney and I got to the gate...nope...still laying down. So, I figured he would get up when I sent Barney into the corral...nope...still laying down. OK, so, he'll get up when I go up to him with the halter and lead rope...nope...still laying down. I actually had to put the rope around his neck and PULL before he deemed it appropriate to get up to get haltered! that's one relaxed horse!

Willy and I worked on basic groundwork like turning TOWARD me instead of AWAY from me for direction changes. He was beginning to really get that one by the end of things. We also worked on sending to the left and the right. Willy does really well understanding being sent to the right, his left, but has trouble going to the left. He got better during this session.

I also introduced a plastic bag tied to the end of my stick instead of the string. Willy wasn't scared of it at all but, he did look upon it with high suspicion when I just gently held it next to his nose.

I quit working with Willy on a good note.

OH, Willy has a girlfriend! The mare in the corral next to Barney and Willy is completely infatuated with Willy! She can't stand Barney but when I lead Willy by her corral, she RUNS to the gate nickering, whinnying, and making goo-goo eyes at Willy. Willy just sort of glances her way then continues walking.


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## Alhefner

Barney and Willy were both good boys today. My former coworker went out to the ranch to meet them and hung around for a few hours while I messed around with Barney. Though Barney still thinks he should be calling the shots about what direction we go, he does eventually give in and go where I direct him. Now, it's just a matter of keeping it up with keeping his nose between the reigns and going where he's pointed until it becomes habit.

I used a slight amount of bribery with Willy. Don't think I'll make a big habit of it though. As for riding, Willy did well! No spooking even when a jackrabbit jumped up about two feet from his hooves. We had a couple of minor disagreements about where to go that I prevailed in. 

Trying to get Willy into a trot once did require one spank with the end of the mecate but, he kept the pace until I brought him to a stop. I did find out what he has been trained is a cue for side passing...I put my heel back to his flank and all of a sudden, all four feet were going sideways...hmmm...may have to work on changing that!

All in all, it was a good day! Gonna keep riding both boys as much as I can.


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## Alhefner

Put a fly mask on Willy to cut down on the bright daylight. He's light sensitive and squints whenever the sunshine is too bright.

His pinned ears are because of Barney being so close behind him. I'm surprised Barney didn't get kicked but, Willy was more interested in finding out if he could get another carrot.

Willy wouldn't let me put the mask on him just loose in the corral so, I had to halter him, take him to the hitch rail and then put the fly mask on starting at his ears and then letting it come down over his face.


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## walkinthewalk

Yay Willie for putting the fly mask on, since it sounds as if you're not used to one. 

Good thing you equated pinned ears to Barney's presence as I had something ready for Willie to be saying about the fly mask, lollol

Also, maybe Willie is one of the lucky ones, but his nose skin looks pink. If you start seeing hints of "bumps" turning brown on his nose, that is sunburn.

Equate (WalMart) diaper rash PASTE has 40% zinc oxide and doesn't come off too easy. You can gently wipe his nose clean, then slather some diaper rash paste on all the sunburn spots.

It's a common issue but one that often goes unnoticed with new owners of pink skinned horses


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## Alhefner

@walkinthewalk, Willy and Barney act a lot like brothers that tend to antagonize each other will Willy being the "big brother" and Barney being the bratty "little brother".

Since tonight is the first of my seven 12 hour night shifts, I'm waiting until later to go see them both. Hopefully, Willy will still have his fly mask on but, I wouldn't put it past Barney to have pulled it off of him.


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## Alhefner

Well, it seems that Willy isn't too interested in playing "catch me if you can" these days. Neither Willy nor Barney come walking up to me but, both will just stand still as I approach them.

When I got to the ranch, the boys had finished their breakfast. Willy was laying down near the gate while Barney was standing in his favorite spot where he can look down toward the barn and see everything.

I decided to work with Willy first. He stayed laying down until I put the rope around his neck and pulled. Then, he reluctantly got to his feet so I could halter him.

After a little bit of work in the round pen, On went the saddle. Then, it was on to the arena where he did pretty well. I worked more on my seat at the trot which Willy seems to like.

I took a break and left Willy to his own devices while I talked to a new person at the ranch. About 10 minutes later, her grandfather, who had come with her, pointed to the arena and said that Willy's saddle had slipped to the side.

Well, it hadn't just slipped! The *&!#@%! horse* had tried to roll while wearing it and pushed it to the side. So, I had to first get it upright then, because it was now too far back, had to lead Willy to the hitch rail so I could take the saddle off and then put it back on.

Next for Willy came riding out into the brush. He didn't really want to go and we argued a little over that. Then, about 20 minutes into things, Willy caught sight of the ranch dogs out in the brush. Of COURSE that had him worried...dogs in brush must be horse eating predators...right? So, we dealt with that over the next few minutes.

I rode Willy to the top of a hill and let him gaze for a bit before riding him down the hill. It's not super steep but it's not a gentle slope either. He did very well going down. I pointed him back up on a different path and sort of let him decide how he wanted to take the hill. Willy ended up deciding that going up in a kind of series of jumps was the thing to do... not a trot and not a canter or gallop...more like a series of jumps. I love my saddle horn!

At the end of things, I worked a bit on Willy's barn sour by making him work harder at the barn than he did out in the brush... Might have made some headway there...or maybe not.

Next, it was Mr. Barney's turn. I brought him to the hitch rail to clean his feet and give him a good brushing. then, I put on the saddle and we headed to the round pen.

As soon as we got into the round pen, Barney wanted to take off running. Instead of catering to him, I led him to the center of the round pen and made him stand. I wanted to take the lead rope off and was just starting that when Barney got impatient and tried to BITE!

My response was IMMEDIATE and Barney reacted by pulling away... more rope burns until I let go and forced him into a full out run. So, Barney dragged his lead rope at a full out run, because I insisted on him running, for a good 15 minutes until he would stand still and more respectful.

Of course, when he did stand still and more respectful, I took the lead rope off. The second he knew the rope was off, he spun and raced away to go in circles as fast as he could all over again. I swear, that horse LOVES to race around the round pen! 

He had chosen the speed so, I chose the directions! Lots of direction changes and I refused to let him slow down on his own! If he wants to run, then he's gonna run until I decide it's time to slow down or stop.

We actually had to go through that off and on for over an hour before I felt that Barney had all of his attitude problems out of his system.

When I felt Barney was of a decent frame of mind, I got into the saddle and rode, just in the round pen, working on cues, stopping and standing, backing, etc... for about half an hour.

My back muscles were telling me that I had done enough so, I unsaddled Mr. Barney and called it a day.

Starting in mid May and continuing for 90 days, Barney is going to be double teamed quite often! I've hired a young trainer who has been starting 2 year old colts for a long time. She's been around horses her whole life and will be working Barney just about every day. I'll be working him too on my days off and when I have time before work.

Tomorrow is the farrier visit... The farrier wants to try working on Barney without a sedative but has it on hand if needed. His last visit, Barney was high as a kite sedated but seemed a lot more willing to let this farrier work on him than he was for the last one.

Well, that's it for now...


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## Alhefner

Well, for the first time since I've had him, Barney got gis feet done without any sedation! I had worked him for about an hour before the farrier showed up. He was a really good boy while getting trimmed and shod on his front right and through getting trimmed on his front left.

That's when Barney got bored and started looking for something to do. While the farrier was away getting a shoe for that foot, Barney decided that the farrier's tools just might be good toys. I managed to keep him away from them but didn't notice when Barney managed to wrap his lead around the tool caddy. Well, Barney lifted his head which sent the tool caddy flying and making a big noise which caused Barney to panic.

It took some time to let Barney get his panic fits out of the way and get back down to business. He had to try pulling back against the lead and hitch rail a few times. Once he did settle down, he stayed settled down. the rest of the shoeing on his front feet and then the trimming of his back feet went fairly smoothly.

Willy was just a calm boy for the whole thing. He got shhoes on his fronts too since he showed some bruising.

Here's Barney standing nicely while his front left is worked on before he had his little blow-up.

Here's Barney getting his front left worked on before he blew up.


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## Alhefner

Interesting day. I got to the ranch about 11AM and started off working with Mr. Barney. He's the chestnut horse pictured below.

The owners of the three donkeys were letting their little herd play in the arena and Barney was quite interested in trying to figure out just what kind of strange equines they might be.

I just did some good, basic groundwork with Barney. He's making progress with patience when he first gets into the round pen. Today, he didn't immediately start his lunging routine but managed to wait for me to start it. After some basic sending to the right and left, lunging, and backing exercises on the lead line, he stood fairly patiently while I took his halter and lead rope off so he could do what he really wanted to do...run like an idiot, kicking and farting, till he was good and winded.

Some more basic ground work followed and then I took him back to get Willy, the whitish big horse laying down in the other picture.

Willy is still learning my groundwork cues and he's trying really hard! We made some pretty good progress. One of his "sticky" things is backing up and we made huge progress on that today!

Willy was also quite interested in the donkeys. The first time he saw them was also his first day at the ranch. He was doing OK until one of them started to bray... that spooked Willy enough that he jumped back about 10 feet. Today he was much more calm about it.

After working both boys, I was ready to go home but, a gal who has leased a horse at the ranch was there with her grandfather and husband and she wanted my assistance...

Well, the first thing I found was that the horse was NOT willing for people he really doesn't know, trust, or respect, to put a bridle with snaffle on him... he would pretty much blow up at any attempt to do so. When he would blow up, he would pull back... I had to tell these folks over and over again to "let go of the rope!" and just let the horse get loose. He wasn't actually going to go anywhere.

Soooo, I determined that I needed to teach this gal a little about gaining the horse's respect and off to the round pen we went. Not sure I was able to impart any knowledge since she really wasn't paying a lot of attention but, after about an hour, I was able to put the bridle on this horse as if he was used to me doing it every day...he lowered his head, stayed still, and took the snaffle with just about no effort at all.

I left his halter on and put on their weird lead rope on it. This thing is some imitation leather braided piece of trash that's much too short.

Back to the hitch rail we went. Well, the lead rope was just not right to use so, I was about to put on a lead rope I had made when the horse decided to blow up. He, of course, got loose. Instead of just calming down and standing, he decided to walk off up the hill with the reigns dragging. I hadn't managed to get the other lead rope on the halter. All I had to do was follow him at a slow walk until he decided to stop.

By then, I was done. I gave a few pointers on grooming and how to walk around behind the horse but, as for anything further, I was done for the day.

I predict that this lease will not work out. This gal is too easily frightened and too high strung. Unless she is able to find a way to steady herself, I have serious doubts that she'll ever be able to do more with horses than pay for day rides on very steady, trail horses.


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## Alhefner

Rode both Willy and Barney today. Willy was first up and we worked on his barn sour thing. Made some progress there. Not a lot of progress but some.

Barney was next up. He was a bit balky walking down from his corral and then on to the round pen. Once IN the round pen, he had a blast as usual. Got to run, fart, and carouse until we got down to work on sending, backing, and other general stuff.

When I took Barney out of the round pen to the arena to ride, I _thought_ he was in a cooperative frame of mind. I was wrong. He was still full of it and did not want to cooperate at all. As we were going from on e end of the arena to the other, Barney decided to trot even though I had not cued it. Then, while I was working on getting him back to a good walk, I could tell that he was seriously considering a bucking fit!

Well, I had NO interest in trying to stay on during a bucking fit and less interest in hitting the ground so, I stopped him, got off, and IMMEDIATELY put his feet to work...hard! the lead line was still on his halter which I didn't take off to bridle him so, I had that horse scrambling hard for a good half hour straight. Then, work on backing, coming in, standing still focused on me at a distance, moving calmly to the left and then to the right, then back to hard, fast, work for another 15 minutes before going back to the calm easy stuff.

by the end of that last workout, Barney's whole attitude was very complainant! Not a hint of belligerence! I may have to give him that workout routinely before trying to ride for a while... Trouble is, it's more of a physical workout than I'm used to so, the back lets me know for a couple of hours after...


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## Alhefner

Today was a bit of a lazy day out at the ranch with the boys. It was a pretty windy day so, I decided not to try riding.

I worked with Mr. "I ain't gonna and you can't make me" Barney first. He didn't go into a full balk walking down from his corral but, he did kind of drag his feet a lot!

When we got to the round pen, I changed up how we do things!

What Barney is used to, and really likes, is to be let loose to go running, kicking, farting, and bucking at a good run until he is winded.

We didn't do that today! What I did was lead him to the center of the round pen and make it easier to stand still, facing me, instead of going right into some sort of lunging. Poor horse was a bit confused...

Then, I very calmly pointed to my right with my right arm and hand. Barney thought "Oh, boy! Time to take off and lunge!"

Ummm... nope! I wanted just a calm step to the right so, I stopped him to his consternation. then , I did it again. We kept on like that until he got the idea of "just one step to the side" then stop and face me.

Once Barney had the one step to the right down, we did the same thing to the left. When he had that "one step" thing figured out, we practiced backing up then coming in.

Barney was in full learning mode by now so, I decided that some well organized lunging would be OK. I started him at a walk in each direction. Next, I had him trot in each direction and finally, canter in each direction.

By now, Barney was in "What's that loony human gonna do now?" mode. I could tell he had no idea what to expect but, was paying close attention to try and figure it out when it happened so, I surprised him again. I took the lead rope off of his halter and let him go.

I pointed to the left and Barney started off at a calm walk. I went with him. It took Barney a couple of times around the round pen before he figured out that he had permission to go at any speed he wanted.

Yep, he got into a fast canter but, no kicking or bucking. Just a nice fast canter. Yeah, he would shake his head when I had him change directions but, the normal level of belligerence was greatly diminished!

When I stopped him, Barney came into the center to me with his head low to get petted and told what a good boy he is. We did some lateral flexing, a bit of standing still while I flipped the string from the "stick and string" over, around, under, him then, it was time to go clean his feet...just because I wanted to do it.

On the way back to his corral, more training! Some sending, a little lunging, a lot of backing, and some correction each time he tried to get too close behind me.

When we got back to the corral, Willy was much too close to, and blocking, the gate...of course! I chased him off to give us room. He trotted about half way up the length of the corral and stopped to watch.

I let Barney go and walked up to Willy. He just stood there very calmly while I put the halter on him and was easy to lead out of the corral and down to the hitch rail...as is now normal for him.

No major training wen on for Willy. I'm trying to fashion a good shade/visor to keep his eyes shaded. He's light sensitive and is wearing a fly mask right now to cut down the amount of sunlight that his eyes are subject to. So, lots of time at the hitch rail while I test fitted the visor I'm cutting to his head...not sure he appreciated it much but, he tolerated me messing around with his head quite well. He's a good boy for the most part.


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## Alhefner

Got up early and went straight out to the ranch to work with Willy and Barney before their afternoon feeding time. I don't like letting them not be worked for too many days and it had already been 3 days hadn't done anything.

Barney was pretty good but, he balked right after I got him out of his corral. I had to spank him pretty hard to make him understand that balking is much harder than just coming on along but, he got it eventually.

I took him to the arena after cleaning his feet to do ground work on the lead line. this time, it only took a couple of minutes before he settled into things and was paying attention. Other than basic lunging, I worked on sending to the left and right, backing up, yielding the hind quarters, and staying a respectful distance... he still likes to be too close and will kind of sneak on up to be right beside you or right at your shoulder. It's not a pushy thing, he just likes to be close to his human.

Willy got worked in the round pen and he was feeling rambunctious! A couple of times, when I was turning him to change direction, he aimed his butt my direction and kicked out. I was plenty far enough away not to get hit and he knew that but, that sort of behavior is NOT allowed so, I worked on teaching him that kicking toward me would result in things he really doesn't like! A minute later, the kicking was stopped.

Willy still has a lot to learn about basic ground work and the cues I use but, he's making progress.

Neither one of the boys seemed all that excited about going BACK to their corral today. Barney walked really slow going back which is unusual for him and Willy kind of did the same. Hmmm... I wonder if attitude changes are in progress?

Oh, yeah, Mr. "you ain't MY human" Barney seems to be becoming more friendly toward other people! A gal and her daughter were able to go up to the fence of the arena and Barney actually went up to them to get petted!... then, it could have been the grain bucket they were carrying...


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## tinyliny

I've been helping a friend with getting her horse to lunge. horse is very unflappable, to the point of being dull at times.

two things come to mind that might relate to your experience:

the horse I'm helping on has not had enough experience with moving the shoulder , yielding the shoulder. so, he wants to always stay facing you, right ON you. he is great at moving the hind, in fact, it makes it hard to access his driveline. so, work on moving the front half of the horse away was what we did. might relate to Barney.

and . . . turning. sometimes if you step in front of the horse and sort of 'pinch' their head against the fence by stepping too close in front of them, they don't feel comfortable turning 180 by facing you. they will turn away from you instead.
if you step in front, further along the circle, and when they slow, you take a step backwards, they will often draw out ward, off the rail, and then you can step back in to ask them to swing around the other direction. if you break it into three parts, and have a slight release of pressure, and a pause when they turn toward you (so there's some reward in it for them), THEN ask them to reverse, it may work better. it's two motions with a pause, instead of you stepping in and asking for them to whirl around and go. (forgive me if I am assuming incorrectly on that) might relate to Willy


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## Alhefner

tinyliny said:


> I've been helping a friend with getting her horse to lunge. horse is very unflappable, to the point of being dull at times.
> 
> two things come to mind that might relate to your experience:
> 
> the horse I'm helping on has not had enough experience with moving the shoulder , yielding the shoulder. so, he wants to always stay facing you, right ON you. he is great at moving the hind, in fact, it makes it hard to access his driveline. so, work on moving the front half of the horse away was what we did. might relate to Barney.
> 
> and . . . turning. sometimes if you step in front of the horse and sort of 'pinch' their head against the fence by stepping too close in front of them, they don't feel comfortable turning 180 by facing you. they will turn away from you instead.
> if you step in front, further along the circle, and when they slow, you take a step backwards, they will often draw out ward, off the rail, and then you can step back in to ask them to swing around the other direction. if you break it into three parts, and have a slight release of pressure, and a pause when they turn toward you (so there's some reward in it for them), THEN ask them to reverse, it may work better. it's two motions with a pause, instead of you stepping in and asking for them to whirl around and go. (forgive me if I am assuming incorrectly on that) might relate to Willy


Barney has absolutely no problem lunging... He likes lunging. I point...he goes where I point. His issue has been settling down and doing all of that _*calmly*_... we're getting there. Today was a very good day.

As for Willy, I do just what you're suggesting already. I step in front of his driveline, well ahead, to get his attention the create the draw by walking back toward the center of the pen. It's working...slowly, but it's working and he IS getting the idea. I'm correcting over 15 years of habit here... It will take time.

I have no idea what I wrote that would have given you any idea that Barney doesn't lunge or that Willy isn't learning to lunge...


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## Alhefner

Had a good day at the ranch. Willy was pretty cooperative!

First, I took him to the round pen just to let him burn a bit of energy and to make sure I had his attention.

Then, on went the saddle and bridle and off to the arena. After a few minutes, Willy decided that it was easier to do what I wanted than to try to do something else. Of course, "something else" would be grazing on all the green weeds instead of walking or trotting where I point him...

After about 20 minutes in the arena, I took Willy out and let him chill in the shade. While he was there, another rider asked if she could give Willy a treat. Reluctantly, I said "yes"... Willy loved the treat and, just as I thought, he decided he should start mugging everyone who came near for more treats...he didn't get any but, he tried!

The next thing on the riding was work on barn sour. Willy really didn't display any barn sour today but, I stuck to my plan anyway. I would ride him off a ways at a walk then turn him back toward the barn area. I made him trot near the barn (more work), then would ride him off a bit farther at a walk. I kept this up for a good hour with a break in there somewhere so I could get water and Willy could chill out and try mugging people for treats again.

I ended the session on a good note with Willy feeling pretty relaxed and happy.


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## Alhefner

Watched the trainer I hired working with Mr. "I don't wanna!" Barney this afternoon. He's doing very good! She wore spurs for the first time with him and Barney didn't care even a little bit. He's doing great transitions from trot to canter, his jackhammer trot is even a little smoother. He's learning to turn off of leg pressure and only needs a little reminder with the reigns.

I'm a happy mustang owner!


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## Alhefner

Spent about four hours or so out at the ranch.

I got Barney from his corral first and fully tacked him up. Then, it was off to the round pen. After letting him run off his excess energy and making sure he was listening to me, I got into the saddle.

I wanted to try out some of the things he has been learning like leg cues to turn and such. He did well with those. A lot better than I expected.

HOWEVER, a ride on Barney never comes without SOMETHING. This time, it was monsters on one side of the round pen... he seemed pretty convinced that there were monsters over there. I didn't let him avoid that area at all. I know it's made up and pretty much an act. You see, no such monsters existed anywhere while he was just running and farting and having fun. Silly horse!

Next, I did pretty much the same with Willy. Willy was a good boy and I got his attention pretty quickly. I did ride him some in the round pen but then, I took him out to ride around in the brush a bit.

Willy was all looky but, he never refused to go where I pointed him and eventually started keeping his head straight between then reigns.

When we got back to the barn area, it was time to trot some circles! For some reason, the cues I use to turn him at a walk has him side passing at the trot! Not sure what's up with that! Maybe I need some riding lessons! Well, not maybe, I do need some riding lessons!


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## Alhefner

hehehe... the gal training Mr. Barney decided he needed to get used to the tarp again... He doesn't look all that thrilled but, he's being a good boy and tolerating it!


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## Alhefner

WOW! It's been a while since I was last here! A few things have happened... nothing major.

Barney is doing great in his training! the gal who is working with him says he is the smartest of the three horses she has under training now.

As for Willy, he is slowly getting back into accepting work...very slowly...very reluctantly.

Oh, yeah, I had been working on keeping Willy "between the reigns by using direct reigning with my hands low and wide... The more I did that, the more Willy acted up. So, I went back to one handed neck reigning and using my leg more than my hands in directing him and he's a happy horse!

A couple of weeks ago, I decided that taking Willy along on the weekly "geriatric ride" would be a good thing... I was wrong.

Right off the bat, Willy wanted to be THE lead horse! While I wanted to just tag along at the rear, Willy kept wanting to rush to the front. He was really acting up badly and this is NOT the group of riders that needs a jerk of a horse causing issues!

Soooo, after a whole lot of turning around and around, I stopped Willy, got off, and took his horsey butt to the round pen. Once there, I got back in the saddle and for the next 1.5 hours, it was almost ALL trot and canter!

Oh, yeah, that was my first time cantering on any horse since I was about 19 years old! No, my seat was NOT secure. Yes, I used the heck out of my saddle horn. Yes, my rear end hurt for DAYS after!

Not long after that, I decided to buy spurs and give them a try. So, with spurs on and Willy seemingly in a good mood, I got into the saddle. We went around the round pen at the walk, trot, and canter. Everything seemed to be going well! I even got to show off his nice slow lope for another boarder.

It was after everyone had left and I was the ONLY one doing anything at the ranch that Willy decided he would object. I had him at the trot and wanted to go to a canter so, I LIGHTLY pressed my spurs to his side and clucked.

Willy lowered his head, turned to the middle of the round pen, shook his head, and spun further to the right. By that time, I knew things were probably NOT going to go well in the immediate future and had a death grip on the saddle horn! I love my saddle horn!

Well, Willy first jumped straight up then he came down and hopped up and down on his front feet a few times. After that, he alternated hopping up on his fronts with kicking out with his backs.

This went on for about 10 seconds or so. I managed to STAY IN THE SADDLE! Willy finally stopped and stood quietly...as if absolutely nothing had just happened. I took a big breath and walked him off, as if nothing had happened... I did trot Willy some more but didn't get back into a canter... just in case. We ended the ride on a good note and I was able to tell him what a good boy he had been.

Willy's next lessons had mostly to do with basic respect! While I was lunging him, all tacked up, in the round pen prior to riding, I decided he should canter a bit. As I increased the pressure to get that canter, Willy turned his butt toward me and fired off a double barrel kick in my direction!

NOT ALLOWED! I immediately turned into the worst monster he could imagine! I had him convinced that if he allowed me to catch him, he would be horse burger! After a couple of minutes, I let off the pressure and allowed him to slow down a little.

Then, when I had him turn to canter the other direction, he tried it again! Once again, I went into "horse eating monster" mode!

After the third time Willy tried his kicking thing and got the treatment from me, he hasn't tried that at all again since.

Yesterday was a really good day. I tacked Willy up completely and lunged him a bit in the round pen then got into the saddle. We did walk, trot, canter, stop, back... all the normal stuff for about 10 minutes before I took him out and went to the arena.

Another boarder who has a couple of very cute, chubby, mares had her farrier out working on them. Willy was in lust!

It provided a good opportunity to work on his "buddy sour" sort of behavior! Whenever we were near those mares, which is where Willy wanted to be, he got to do a lot more work. It didn't take too long before he wasn't quite as determined to be with the girls.

So, we spent a little over an hour just going through walk, trot, and canter all over the arena. Will really didn't give me anything to worry about at all and was fairly decent at obeying my cues.

I'm still not SECURE in my seat but getting better! Don't have as much of a death grip on the saddle horn at the trot and canter.

I also let my paranoia of falling off make me purchase more safety equipment! I got one of those "Hit Air" vests that blows up using CO2 when you leave the saddle. A lanyard attaches the valve to the saddle so, when you leave the saddle, it pops the valve and the vest inflates before you hit the ground.

No, the helmet and vest do not make me a better rider! No, the helmet and vest do not make either Willy or Barney better horses! No, I do NOT have a lot more confidence when wearing them!

The ONLY thing those pieces of equipment MIGHT DO is prevent serious injury when I fall off my horse! That's it and that is ALL I want them to do!


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## bsms

I long ago concluded that if a certain piece of tack gave me more confidence and nothing else, that was OK. I spent a year or more with a bucking strap on my saddle. Never used it. But it helped me feel willing to try, and it just happened that my horse didn't try to buck that year.

I now normally ride with sheepskin. Many don't like it and that is OK. It gives me some extra grip in case things go wrong. I don't wear a vest, but I almost always wear a helmet. Don't care if anyone else does. But if things get interesting while we're on pavement or out surrounded by rocks...I want my helmet. And sheepskin.

And anyone who wants to laugh can get on my horse and bounce around in my place!

Let us know how the vest works out for normal riding. And it sounds like you are gaining the confidence and skills needed to work with a horse from the saddle. Good news!


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## Alhefner

@bsms thanks for the good words!


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## Alhefner

Air in the Reno area is CLOGGED with smoke from a big fire in California.

Got out to the ranch about 7:30AM then found out the farrier wasn't going to show.

Only thing left to do was go riding! Gary decided to join me. I saddled up Willy then took him to the round pen. He was REALLY full of himself! It took about 20 minutes before he started to calm down and LISTEN consistently.

Gary needed to do about the same with his horse... seems both of them were "feeling their oats"!

Once both of us were in the saddle, we headed out up the big hill behind the ranch. This really is a big hill! Willy was mostly a good boy and mostly behaved himself on the way out. He was quite curious about his surroundings since he had never been that far from the ranch before. Getting to the ridge line, he was a little worried about what might be on the other side but didn't hesitate to keep going. Once we crested the ridge and he could see, he relaxed.

It was on the way back that Willy started to pull some shenanigans. I wanted him to either stay behind the other horse or beside the other horse but not get far ahead. So, I was occasionally holding him back and he started to really protest that level of control.

After about 5 minutes of his acting up, I decided to get of and lead him. Ten minutes of being led, and Willy was calm and relaxed again so, I got back in the saddle.

As we were getting closer to the ranch proper and going down the big hill, Willy again started getting ****y soooo, I decided a zig-zag pattern going down the hill would be the thing.

Turns out, I was right! Willy made absolutely no protest and responded perfectly to each and every change of direction! He didn't seem to care that the other horse got a little further ahead but was paying attention to my cues... I was kind of amazed really.

Once actually back at the ranch proper, Willy was just a very calm horse. No speeding up to get to a specific place of comfort.

The entire ride was only about 2 miles but, it was all hills! Some steep, some not so steep. Not a bit of flat ground outside of the ranch proper. Lots of sage brush, cheat grass, juniper trees, jackrabbits, and rodent dens.

If it hadn't been for the thick smoke, it would have been an almost perfect ride!


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## Alhefner

Barney and Willy tried to play the "catch me if you can" game this morning.

Hehehe... it might have lasted for a while if Willy wasn't so darned lazy! He got tired of being chased off and stood to be caught after about 2 minutes... Barney kept trying to show him how to play the game for best effect... LOL!

As I led Willy down to the gate, Barney just stood there with a quizzical look. I petted his head and told him that he was a good boy.

Willy was a little "hot" in temperament so, after tacking up fully, I took him to the round pen for some dedicated exercise and focused training. After about half an hour, he was in a better frame of mind.

Only rode in the arena today. I wanted to work on my seat and things worked out quite well for that. One of the other horse owners had her mare at the gazebo next to the arena. 

Willy wanted to hang out with the mare! I didn't object to him hanging out there but made him work for the privilege by trotting circles, serpentine's, etc... any time we were in that area.

I found the trotting helped ME develop my seat a lot! Yeah, my butt still hits the saddle quite a bit during a trot but not nearly as much or as dramatically as it used to!


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