# Saddle fit on a round, downhill horse



## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

I started this thread, which might help you:

https://www.horseforum.com/saddle-fitting-issues/signs-saddle-doesnt-fit-816051/

For me personally, I compared how Pony went bareback with how he went in a saddle. I have to say, he's always gone better bareback, but with the most recent saddle I got (and which fits, yay!), the difference was not too noticeable. With the other saddles, it was quite noticeable.


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## rambo99 (Nov 29, 2016)

There are no dry spots if there where that is a pressure point. If there's pressure it's to tight so no sweat happens. I had this happen on my horse, when saddle was to narrow across his shoulders. 

Boy is Duke a big boy, would be a comfy ride bareback.


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## ksbowman (Oct 30, 2018)

Looks like it fits pretty good but, the saddle pad is too far forward. There should be an equal distance out front of the saddle matching the distance at the back.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

To expand on the saddle pad location...
Aside from the pad is not centered under the saddle...
If you tented the pad, that is pulled the saddle pad up into the saddle gullet you did not do that high enough..
Looking at your saddle pad it is sitting flat, as tight as it can be at a point on the wither that is very, very sensitive to the animal.
Now add your husbands considerably more weight in the saddle pressing down the saddle, the pad and exerting pressure to that sensitive location and I can well imagine your horse trying to do what it could do rid itself of that ouch.
Your are very lucky you did not open a sore in that location honestly imo.
The reason I say this is my friend did the same thing, no one caught the issue till we removed the saddle and found a rub mark which days later opened to a serious sore and proved troublesome to heal and stay healed.
Please be very careful of the saddle placement and pad being pulled high enough to release the wither from being injured.
_just some information you wish to not learn firsthand..._
:runninghorse2:...


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## ksbowman (Oct 30, 2018)

horselovinguy said:


> To expand on the saddle pad location...
> Aside from the pad is not centered under the saddle...
> If you tented the pad, that is pulled the saddle pad up into the saddle gullet you did not do that high enough..
> Looking at your saddle pad it is sitting flat, as tight as it can be at a point on the wither that is very, very sensitive to the animal.
> ...


 I also like the front cinch farther back, about 3 fingers behind the front arm pits and skin folds. It will help prevent rubbing , pinching and irritation.


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## Saigold (Mar 21, 2019)

Thanks everyone! It’s amazing how little things can be missed. I didn’t know that the saddle pad needed to be equal front and back. Is there a reason to that?

I always pull the pad up as far into the gullet as it will go but it eventually works it’s way down. If I see it’s flat against I usually pull it back out. Also this saddle pad has a cut out for the withers.

I often find myself leaning to one side and have to keep readjusting the saddle to keep it centred on Duke, the pad will sometimes move so much that it will be way off centre and I have to remove the whole saddle to fix it. I don’t know if My one leg is shorter than the other or I’m just sitting crooked. If I take my feet out of the stirrups then I feel centered as I don’t rely on them. 

And yes Duke is a comfy ride bareback. I rode with a bareback pad in the winter to keep warm. 

I also have the option of a second rigging ring. So I think I’ll try to put the girth on that second one to see if it will move the girth away from the arm pit.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I don't think that just becasue the horse was anxious to move out it is any indicattion that the saddle doesn't fit. the sweat pattern indicates an even fit, and in the photos, there is nothing glaringly wrong.


I will say that you are so small, for that large of a saddle. It ends up having you too far behind the center of the saddle, resulting in your pelvis tipping forward, and your leg pushing out in front of you.


I would recommend three things, if I may be so bold:


1. Use a better quality , wool saddle pad. you will experience less sliding. That saddle pad is a POJ (piece of junk).


2. Look into a 'seat shrinker' from Cashel, because that saddle seat is too big for you. It will help you fit that saddle better, yet is removable for when your husband rides Duke


3. Put Duke on a diet. I know he may be a Kiger, and an easy keeper, but he is PHAT!!!


I hope I have not been too bold.


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## Saigold (Mar 21, 2019)

@tinyliny you’re not too bold 😉. I appreciate the honesty as I’m trying to figure out what’s causing some of the concerns. I went through a lot of saddles from really bad fitting to ok that if I have any behaviour quirks I tend to jump on the illl fitting tack band right away.

I’m glad that it looks like the saddle fits. That’s what I thought too. 

It is slightly big for me, although I’m riding in only two of those pics, the others are my nieces and one of my daughter. 

What saddle pads would you recommend and why? Im not opposed to upgrading to something different, although these are are pretty new, within the last year. 

I agree that Duke needs to shed some pounds. That’s very tricky though, as we don’t live on the farm, my parents do. And with young kids that means they help a lot with the caretaking. So I can’t ask them to do more than they already are. So things like grazing muzzles are out. The other horse needs all the weight he can get. And I only have to the two horses. If I separate them then the older guy will have a heart attack and lose more condition. So that really only leaves me with exercise, which I try to get in as much as possible, but alas that’s not always easy


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## ksbowman (Oct 30, 2018)

Saigold said:


> Thanks everyone! It’s amazing how little things can be missed. I didn’t know that the saddle pad needed to be equal front and back. Is there a reason to that?
> 
> I always pull the pad up as far into the gullet as it will go but it eventually works it’s way down. If I see it’s flat against I usually pull it back out. Also this saddle pad has a cut out for the withers.
> 
> ...


 If your saddle happens to move while riding it will help keep it on the pad and not rubbing on your horses back. If you ride trails at all and are going up and down hills (creek bottoms) it will move. A breast collar also helps a lot in this riding. Very good advise from Tiny on the wool saddle pad, that's all I've used for years.


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## Saigold (Mar 21, 2019)

I’ll have to do some research on saddle pads. Any specific brand names on the wool that are good? 
Yes we mostly do trails. And I have a breast collar, just don’t have the attachments that are long enough to fit Duke. Will have to look into that too. 

Thank you everyone for advice. It’s very much appreciated! If there’s any one tips or pointers I’m all ears.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Thank you for accepting my blunt advice. I'm sure you do what you can, and Duke looks very happy and satisfied with his life, as it is, so don't let my words stress you.


Diamond makes some nice partial wool pads, . . . I love 5 star pads, but they are ridiculously pricey. Impact get are great. Just look for any pad that is mostly REAL wool. Brand is not important. A 3/4 inch thickness I think is best.


As for adjusting the saddle seat size, this is only for YOUR benefit. I think the Cashel product is about $40. I used to ride in a 16.5 inch Crates saddle. Really nice product. Just using that 'seat shrinker' product brought it down to a 16 inch seat size. Before, I was always behind the motion in posting in that Western saddle. After the seat shrinker, I was able to post in better rhythm.


My 3 things are mere suggestions. If none are done, you and Duke and family will be fine.


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## rambo99 (Nov 29, 2016)

Reason to have pad equal front to back of saddle. If you look at 5 th picture up from bottom. Back of saddle is on his back where it's overhangs the pad.

That could possibly rub his back raw on a long ride. As far as pulling saddle pad up into pummel of saddle. It never stays put and I don't worry about. Same thing happens with my saddle pad. I don't fix it while on ride,I just finish ride. I do some long rides and many miles. Never had a sore withered horse from pad being on withers.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

To raise a few more questions...
_
Why are you using a cutback pad for this horse?_
You would do well to use a contoured pad which would have a arch for the wither but not be slit and cut-back.
If your saddle fits properly your will still have clearance of saddle not touching the wither bone area.

I'm also sort of confused...
I thought this issue came from when your husband was riding who is almost 100 pounds more in weight than you...
Of course your saddle is going to fit different, the sweat pattern is going to change some when you change weight like that and require the horse to exert itself.
So is it that your husband rode in the same saddle you use or does he have a different saddle better sized for his weight and bulk of body compared to your slighter built body and less weight.............
I would expect your husband sits in a 17" seat and you sit in a 15" seat based on your weights respective.
I also think a 16" for your husband is going to be a tight fit and not so comfortable..

Now we also have you saying once your husband got astride the horse was trying to "scoot" and move fast...
Your horse is accustomed to riding with you and you put nearly 100 pounds more on his back, concentrating that weight on a very small area...
I think I might be looking to move quicker too trying to get away from the added weight, but...this is not a little horse either.
_How often does your husband ride this horse and for how long a period of time??
_You truly need to look at the entire picture, easier done when you look from the outside and a distance than being part of the situation happening. :|

For a wool saddle pad, look to buy a used pad...
Good pads outlast the owners lifetime often when they are used but not abused.
A quality wool pad Diamond, 5-Star and a few other brands are going to set you back several hundred dollars new at a minimum..
This business* https://www.chicksaddlery.com/search-results?Search=wool+western+saddle+pads  *has several wool pads available in various prices..
Some of those names are very recognizable...
If you are going to purchase new saddle pads that is great but it is not a necessity that only wool pads are used.
What is a necessity is that the pad helps the saddle fit, helps to absorb sweat off the back, is a clean surface against the back and it is dry when put on.
Wool has advantages yes, but it is not a beat all and must.
Many people use fleece and felt pads with no adverse effects...
Much is just a choice we make...and the kind of riding we are doing and require our horses to do with us.

I would consider a new pad though for your guy, a contoured one so there is wither clearance and comfortable space constructed in it...* https://www.chicksaddlery.com/search-results?Search=contoured+western+saddle+pads#/perpage:500*
If you do a "wool" pad, it isn't so much the top but the bottom if you choose to go for the wool pad thing.
You can also do a wool saddle blanket that is a thin blanket you could carefully layer underneath a saddle pad or another saddle blanket adding them together to get the required thickness for proper saddle fit.

I just stumbled into 5-Star Wool Pads factory seconds showroom...
*https://5-star-equine.myshopify.com...Edi4Fi2oJQ8Qk5F8VMb4dLsW2ra8d_8QDOq5oYt4ImXtc*
A large savings to be had, still expensive they are but from pads in several thicknesses, shapes and then liners {underpads} the selection is really nice.
If you can find used, $50 - $100 is what I've seen people ask ...remember that is they ask, what they get is something different.

The business Chick Saddlery I linked to twice is just a business, one I've bought things from for more than 30 years. I have nothing to gain by offering their name.
They have nice products, their description blurbs are accurate and prices are affordable for many equestrians.
There are many other places with available similar products so find where you are happy looking at and spending money with.
It is great to buy in actual stores, but for me I must also go where my money buys the most and bestest quality and stays in my budget-range, that eliminates many saddle shop offerings that inflate as much as 100%...yes, that much.

Good luck in your search and research ongoing.
:runninghorse2:...


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

rambo99 said:


> Never had a sore withered horse from pad being on withers.


The issue is that style pad is not "on" the withers, but it is hooked behind the wither bone where it meet the spine..
Where that cut-back pad hooks & sets, then with every step and movement of the saddle it rubs, and creates a aggravated spot of sore, abraded skin and potentially a nasty saddle sore from the pad specifically.
If it was a pad not slit and open...the chance of issue is far less.
Reducing the chance of a wither fistula created is why I commented in the first place about the saddle pad fit.

However, if you want to make a similarity you might better understand and relate to...
Go purchase a article of clothing that sits _on_ your anatomy {underwear} where it is very nerve sensitive...
Now buy them 1 - 2 sizes to small and go for a walk for a hour or two and see if you come home chafed, sore and some very abraded skin wherever there is a edge of material...elastic leg bands absolutely do this when to tight.
That is what that pad slipping and sliding, not tented properly does...its uncomfortable and I'm sorry, but taking 3 extra seconds to position a pad right or sore the animal...to me that is not a excuse.
Her horse wasn't sored this time, but if it happens to often you will find your horses attitude to being ridden may change for good reason according to said horse...it hurts!
A heads up to make a adjustment when tacking up, a extra second is all it takes to make the horse more comfortable.:thumbsup:
Its little things learned and shared with others that can make our animals more comfortable.:wink:
:runninghorse2:...


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## Saigold (Mar 21, 2019)

@tinyliny i will take a look at the saddle seat shrinkers, but not sure if it will make me like this saddle much more. I don’t like how it feels like it’s high off of his back. Any other saddle i have used, I feel like I am closer to the horse. Guess it’s just my personal preference. I would love to get a new saddle that I like too, but the thought of having to go through buying and fitting a new one and selling this one just because of a preference doesn’t seem worth it. 
@rambo99 the saddle pads are a pain lol. Slipping and sliding. I never had one rub the horse raw either. But the possibility is there so I do try to always ensure nothing rubs. 
@horselovingguy the first two pics in the original post where the sweat marks are, that was after a 9km rice with my husband in the saddle the whole time. The other pics show others riding as I couldn’t find any better ones. I got some better ones today (I think). 

He doesn’t ride much at all, in fact that was the first time riding this year, but Duke is not a small horse. He’s 15.2 and is a QH/draft and weighs around 1400lbs. Should be able to handle 210lbs without too many issues. That’s the only saddle we use for both of us riding. When my hubby was riding in it he said he had lots of space in the saddle. I’m pretty sure it’s a 16” seat 

I got a cut back saddle pad as these ones were affordable and seemed thick enough to provide a good amount of cushion. Is there a big difference between the cut out and contoured ones when it comes to riding and fit? 

Thanks for including the links! I’ll take a look at them.


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## Saigold (Mar 21, 2019)

Here’s pics I took today. Hopefully it shows the fit better.


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## Saigold (Mar 21, 2019)

@horselovingguy just seen your last response on the cut out vs contoured pad.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

that horse can easily handle 210 lbs. or more. Don't let that worry you.


A good saddle pad is a very important investment, so don't scrimp there. It should last a long time and can be used for multiple horses, if you get a different horse over time.


That saddle seems to fit reasonably well. You say it makes you feel 'far up/off' of his back? H m m . . . I wonder why.


Perhaps just put a nice sheepskin pad on the seat, for your tush. Even in hot weather, it helps to keep you from getting sweaty, and is divine in cold weather.


The saddle is , well, nothing special , in my opinion, but I understand that saddle shopping is a PITA, so it seems you could just keep it. I think your husband does not need a 17 inch, unless he is really tall, or is, well, pretty fat.


I am fat. I can manage in a 15.5 but do best in a 16. I weigh more than your husband, sadly. A 17 would be too big for both me and him, IME.


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## rambo99 (Nov 29, 2016)

horselovinguy said:


> The issue is that style pad is not "on" the withers, but it is hooked behind the wither bone where it meet the spine..
> Where that cut-back pad hooks & sets, then with every step and movement of the saddle it rubs, and creates a aggravated spot of sore, abraded skin and potentially a nasty saddle sore from the pad specifically.
> If it was a pad not slit and open...the chance of issue is far less.
> Reducing the chance of a wither fistula created is why I commented in the first place about the saddle pad fit.
> ...


Ok I missed the cut back pad part. Yep for sure could make for sore withers. I use regular style pad so not an issue. 

Would be curious as to reason op is using a cut back pad.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

The saddle might be a smidge narrow for him but it isn't bad.
It appears to sit a bit high but to me rather to high than sit on the wither bone...ouch.
Saddle sits level, has excellent wither clearance and the gullet running the length of the saddle should adequately clear the spinal processes.
With how it fits I would look for a thinner pad not thicker, so what you choose to try, might search for maybe 1/2" - 3/4" thick...trial and error and see which appears to give best protection. {lay a clean sheet/towel under when trying new pads so no horsehair on them}....
I think if you take a bit of weight off of your horse that saddle will fit incredible, cause the precursor to it being great is already in place...

Saigold... I don't know who else uses that kind of rigging but Circle Y does.. 
My saddle has a very similar rigging ability which is sweet as you can fit a great number of horses for their comfort level and saddle being a better fit.
I'm sure other manufacturers have similar...:smile:
:runninghorse2:...


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## Saigold (Mar 21, 2019)

@tinyliny I actually do have a sheepskin over that o was using. But it makes it bulky so I used it in the cold months

My husband said the saddle felt comfortable. Just doesn’t like the too narrow stirrups. I don’t either. I e been looking to get something wider, but didn’t want to spend money unless I’m keeping the saddle. The only reason I’m attached tot he saddle is if it fits. Otherwise I’d trace it in in a min lol. 
@rambo99 no special reason for the cut back pad. It was the one on sale and I though it provides either clearance. Wasn’t aware it could cause an issue by pushing into the withers until it was mentioned here. 
@horselovingguy. I did put the saddle a bit higher than it would sit I guess. I Jsut looked at the pics again. It tends to slide back a bit from where it sits. He kept twitching his skin cause of the bugs and I had to keep moving the saddle. I suppose I should have cinched it up and rode in it for a few min and then take pics. Sometimes I do find that the front of it dips down too much. I should try it with just a thin English pad or even Just a blanket and see how it feels. 

I was actually wondering why it had the double rigging and watching some YouTube saddle fitting it was explained. Next ride I will try to move the cinch on the back one.

I attached the brand of it. I’ll have to look it up. That’s the first time I noticed the saddle make

Also attached a pic with my hubby on. Duke kind of makes him look small lol. I don’t have a good pic of the saddle with him sitting in it unfortunately.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

that's a sweet picture. you husband DOES look small in comparison. Duke has very wide-set front legs, which means he may have a 'rolling' sort of gait as he walks. 



Whatever you can do to gently work at having Duke lose some weight will be good for him. 

I rode an Andalusian for 6 years who was always overweight. It really took a huge effort to take off the weight, once he had spent several years being fat. We had to put him on a dry paddock, almost no grazing beyond hand grazing for a treat, NO grain, and as much riding as possible. He lost nearly 100 lbs and gained so much stamina, at 19. really remarkable.


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## Saigold (Mar 21, 2019)

Making them lose weight is very difficult, that’s for sure. The pasture they’re on isn’t great. Especially with the ongoing heatwave. I was riding him every few days in the beginning of the year and I could see a bit of a difference. But he gained all that back. 😔. 

He walks and trots like a bulldog. His chest is very wide lol


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## Saigold (Mar 21, 2019)

So I finally was able to try the saddle with just a thin English pad (I know it’s too small, it was just to try). 

I measured the saddle and it’s a 17” seat with a 7” gullet.

Is it too big for his back? 

I also changed the cinch to the back rigging. It seemed to sit away from the armpit more. I got on and rode around a bit and it didn’t go forward or back, but I did notice it sliding side to side more. Maybe it’s because he was still damp after a bath. Or just a different feel for me. 

The wrinkling around his withers is new, Im thinking again because he was still damp.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Your saddle is deceiving to look at.
In some pictures it looks like it is to far back looking down onto the wither/mane/back area and seeing the scapula where it is... from the side it looks a decent placement.
What I can say is you are defeating the purpose of using the further back cinch ring when you then pull your cinch forward at that angling.
That will un-stabilize the saddle I would think and create that rock you feel.
:runninghorse2:...


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## Saigold (Mar 21, 2019)

HLG you’re not anywhere near me are you you? Jk. Too bad I can’t pay you to come and check the fit out in person. I think that’s what I need to do. Is get someone to fit him. Thanks for all the suggestions. 

In general the ride feels ok in it, so I’ll prob put the cinch back in the front rigging. And in the meantime keep my eyes open for another saddle I can try before selling this one.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Personally, I think your saddle is TOO NARROW for your horse. Look at the bar angle in relation to his back. Padding will NOT fix a saddle that is too narrow (it's like shoes that are too small).



I snatched this image from Google. I feel like it looks like the photo on the right and is "perched" on his back.











As far as pads go, I myself am a fan of 5 Star. Yes, they are expensive. But boy they LAST. My first pad I bought 8 years ago and it is still in fabulous condition. And I've used it hard. Still just as soft when I wash it up as the day I bought it. Not compressed or misshapen. 



You get what you pay for.


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## Saigold (Mar 21, 2019)

I actually tried a friend’s (Black Forest) treeless saddle yesterday (size 2 - whatever that means) and it seemed to fit pretty good. I think I’ll be on a hunt for a new one. Something with mine doesn’t seem to be quite right as far as fit.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

^^ I would like to see the saddle bare on his back with no pad, but at first glance, that treeless looks pretty decent.


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