# Just for Fun - Blue Roan or Brown Roan?



## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

Hello my HF Friends, 

It has been a while since I've been on here and I have a question. Below are some pictures of a colt who belongs to a friend of mine. We have a friendly debate going on as to whether he is a Blue Roan or Brown Roan. She says he is going to go blue once he's finished shedding out. I say he's a Brown, similar in colour to my mare Lilly. I told her, for fun, we'll see what the HF community thinks on this one. "Titan's" sire is a blue roan and his dam is a strawberry roan, but I don't know anything further about their colour genetics, other than the dam's dam was a brown. 

I understand that he is just over 3 months old, so his colour is bound to change. I also get that the pictures also aren't the greatest because he was in no mood to stand for pictures when we saw him last night. I've included pictures of when he was 1 day old to yesterday evening. He's shedded out around his eyes and nose and he looks to have the softer points of a brown. My friend at some point wants to have him genetically tested for his colour, but she says it's more fun to argue with me right now.  Because he likely will change colour, this is really just for fun to see what other opinions are out there.

Titan at 1 day old.








A few weeks old.








End of July








Mid-August








Yesterday - 3 months


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Not blue roan at all.

Bay or brown roan.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Blue roan isn't even a possibility. He's a bay/brown roan.


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## Dehda01 (Jul 25, 2013)

Agreed. Blue roans are born black with the roan gene. You have a brown or bay roan depending on whether he has the At gene or not, which is difficult to see at this point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

Just out of curiousity, why isn't blue a possibility? Could a chestnut and black not have another black?

EDIT: I know he isn't a black, I'm just curious in general.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Yes it is possible from a black and red cross, but it's not possible with this colt as he clearly has some either brown or bay agouti.


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

Thanks guys, I'll let my friend know the consensus.  I told her that if he were black, he would have clearly been black from the start. My mare Lilly started out as a Bay colour similar to him and then darkened significantly to the colour she is now (horse in my avatar). It is just a friendly debate though - whatever colour he turns out to be, I look forward to seeing how this guy turns out.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Yep if he was black he would have more than likely been born a mousy grey color.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

I have a sorrel mare that foaled a black filly this past March. So yes its possible. LoL. Wrecker was a greyish/bluish/silver color. Darker on top, light from belly down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Definitely a bay/brown roan though I'm leaning more toward brown.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Same as NdAppy: A 1 day old black foal would have been far more of a grayish color than he is. He would have looked much more like this foal (though this one's face is starting to shed off).









The way his forehead between his eyes is darker than the lower part of his face is a pretty good indicator that he's a brown roan.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Definitely without a single doubt he is agouti based and therefore cannot be a blue roan. Definitely bay/brown roan personally leaning toward brown.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Electra Park (Oct 6, 2013)

Dehda01 said:


> Agreed. Blue roans are born black with the roan gene. You have a brown or bay roan depending on whether he has the At gene or not, which is difficult to see at this point.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is this true ? Are blue roans definitely only born black ?


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Electra Park said:


> Is this true ? Are blue roans definitely only born black ?


A "blue" roan is a black horse with a roan gene
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Electra Park (Oct 6, 2013)

Peppy Barrel Racing said:


> A "blue" roan is a black horse with a roan gene
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes I know that .. the question is are all blue roans born BLACK looking or can they be born another color and shed out to black/blue roan ?


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Electra Park said:


> Yes I know that .. the question is are all blue roans born BLACK looking or can they be born another color and shed out to black/blue roan ?


I guess I'm confused by your question a black horse is born black. If your asking if they are born looking roan no they are not they start showing their roan at the first foal shed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Electra Park (Oct 6, 2013)

Peppy Barrel Racing said:


> I guess I'm confused by your question a black horse is born black. If your asking if they are born looking roan no they are not they start showing their roan at the first foal shed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have a quarter horse (cutting bred) roan filly she was born bay with the typical roan hairs scattered through her coat... shes now shedding out , was wondering her base colour so will start a new thread
(some foals are born roan  have seen them )


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Peppy Barrel Racing said:


> I guess I'm confused by your question a black horse is born black. If your asking if they are born looking roan no they are not they start showing their roan at the first foal shed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think she's asking if they look black when born, and the answer to that is no, a black horse is a little bit lighter when born (unless they have the gray gene, but that's another story!) The picture Poseidon posted is a black foal in the process of shedding out. You can she that he's a lighter grayish-brown, not jet black, but is shedding out black.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Black horses can be born black. This filly is from a bay dam and sorrel tobiano sire. First pic is 1 day old.



As an adult


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

Electra Park said:


> I have a quarter horse (cutting bred) roan filly she was born bay with the typical roan hairs scattered through her coat... shes now shedding out , was wondering her base colour so will start a new thread
> (some foals are born roan  have seen them )


This is true, some foals are born with a few white hairs, but generally, from what I've seen anyway, they don't start to really show it until their first shed. This guy that I posted at the beginning was mostly solid, but had scatterings of white hairs throughout his body, in a great enough volume that it was obvious he was going to roan. Also made it easier knowing since he has two roan parents.


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## Electra Park (Oct 6, 2013)

Glynnis said:


> This is true, some foals are born with a few white hairs, but generally, from what I've seen anyway, they don't start to really show it until their first shed. This guy that I posted at the beginning was mostly solid, but had scatterings of white hairs throughout his body, in a great enough volume that it was obvious he was going to roan. Also made it easier knowing since he has two roan parents.


I know most roans are not born roan , heres an example of one that was  AQHA red roan colt 4 hrs old born last yr


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

A roan horse is born roan. Their foal coat when they're born does not look like an adult roan coat because all foal coats look different than their adult coat will. You will know if they are roan after they shed the foal coat and start to grow in their more adult color around weaning age.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

In regards to black foals vs other black based colours, just "normal" black foals tend to have a more mousy, silvery colour. A smoky black, or a black based roan (blue roan) is often born a bit darker, a more inky colour than one that has no additional genes present. However, this is an observation, not a rule.


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## lovelyStory (Oct 2, 2012)

Glyniss he is simply stunning!!


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

I'll let my friend know - she's pretty proud of him for both looks and personality.


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