# does parelli really work?



## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

I'm currently doing Parelli with my horse. I have to say that i absolutely love it. While it is expensive, i feel it is definitely worth it (even though others feel it isn't)
I'm only on Level 1 with Vega, but already i've noticed a change in our relationship. She looks to me more for direction and is more willing to do something when i ask her to.
I also have the rope halter, 12 ft lead, carrot stick and 6 ft savvy string and feel that they all help me communicate with her better.

If you don't fee like spending that much money at first, ebay is a great place to get them for less.


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

I think any clinician you feel comfortable watching and following is good. If you can understand them, the what and why of their training methods and it helps you and your horse, go for it. 
Parelli isn't for everyone the same as Chris Cox or John Lyons or any of the DVD trainers aren't for everyone. I think its a very personal thing. Everyone has a different opinion on them. I think they all have there "tools" they try to sell you.


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## ladyismyhorsey (Apr 29, 2008)

appylover31803 said:


> I'm currently doing Parelli with my horse. I have to say that i absolutely love it. While it is expensive, i feel it is definitely worth it (even though others feel it isn't)
> I'm only on Level 1 with Vega, but already i've noticed a change in our relationship. She looks to me more for direction and is more willing to do something when i ask her to.
> I also have the rope halter, 12 ft lead, carrot stick and 6 ft savvy string and feel that they all help me communicate with her better.
> 
> If you don't fee like spending that much money at first, ebay is a great place to get them for less.


thank you so much and i think i will try it out!
your horse is beautiful by the way! how old is she?


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

ladyismyhorsey said:


> appylover31803 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm currently doing Parelli with my horse. I have to say that i absolutely love it. While it is expensive, i feel it is definitely worth it (even though others feel it isn't)
> ...


Thanks! she's 5.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

I just started parelli, and i am already seeing a major improvement in chance! I got my lvl 1 set from ebay. I think its worth every penny. But it may not be for u, but its worth a shot!


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I think it's great.  But I think you don't have to buy allllll the stuff because it is over-priced.


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## Abby (Nov 26, 2007)

Parelli is GREAT for me. I stand by it 110%. I am on Level 3 with one horse and level one with my new horse. Once I get to level three with both of them I will see if I can get into some sort of training. It is cool stuff and I want to share it with others. :lol:


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

Parelli is good, if you want to dedicate the time. I have gone up to level 2 with my horse... I think Parelli is very, very good for ground work and teaching the person... but I do not think parelli is all that realistic if you want to show your horse, riding-wise. If you want to go to a few local shows and stuff its fine, but I don't think it makes your horse reliable.
I remember I went to one of the clinics and linda parelli's horse refused a jump for no reason, one that he'd done before. This isn't some huge, horrible problem, it's just that in today's show world horses have to be consistent and reliable... I think their horses are willing and love what they do, but I don't think they can attain the same high level as some other trainers can, without parelli.
With that being said, if you do want to do a lot of showing... I wouldn't advise getting the tapes and trying to do them now. There's a pretty long 'no riding' in the beginning of level one... and I know that when you're showing, you usually don't have a lot of time to let your horse not be ridden! I would tell you to get them later, during the off season, and only go up to level 2 (3 if you want to shell out the money).
Also, the parelli equipment is worth EVERY penny. I know they're expensive, but they are better then every rope halter/hackamore I've seen. The bridle's are a waste of money because they're no different then a good quality one at your tack store, but the halters and ropes are fantastic. I use them on all of my horses.
Just remember that there is a lot of marketing in parelli to get you to buy their things... I love the program, just not the needless advertising. There are some things you need... and some you don't.


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## HaflingerHorse (Mar 5, 2008)

I am in Level 2/Level 3 and have seen soooooooooooooooo many changes in both my horses that is it amazing. Yes it is $$ but it is worth it every penny!!!

I am glad to see so many other people doing it!! 

Keri


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## Sady (Apr 26, 2008)

Huh, hard for me to describe my opinion about PNH in english ...
I think it is a good way to be with horses, but not even to ride. It's a completly different thing to reach a "level" to ride in dressage by parelli or on the classical way. There is a lot work and a long time before you can start to ride the horse in a correct way and also built up muscles to carry you on it's back for a long time without damage and degradation (sounds hard, but I don't know how to discribe it otherways). You have to know if you are set to spend this long time, especially when you have to work without a trainer and learn it by your own. You'll do many mistakes and it'll take time to find them, if there is nobody who can shorten it by telling you. You have to make this experiences on your own. It also needs a strong willing an an iron resolve. And it is a really!!! strict way, you can do it by no means at all. It doesn't work if you do it halfhearted.
I have decided for my own that I do it on my own way. I think there is to much pressure in the method, up to 100% of negative reinforcement. I know a lot of really great PNH People and some instructors too and I think most of their horses just works. The owner ask for something and the horse will do. It's a really one-sided communication. I want a real dioalog with the horses, I want communication, query, emotion and exibility, not a working horse like a machine. Please don't take my opinion for personal, PNHler  I wouldn't have a horse which follows unconditionally, I want a horse which tells instinctive if I'm competent and if I'm right. I want to give my horse a chance to make mistakes without bad consequences. On the parelli way you'll stop the negative influence if it is right. I think it's better to do something positive when the horse is right, and not to stop the "bad" things when it is right. (oh my good, does anyone understand what I want to say?).
Ok, I felt respect for everyone who does parelli with a happy looking horse, but I't not my (own) way.
Sady


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

Parelli is absolutely incredible! I LOVE the program. Whatever dream you have Parelli can help you achieve.

I will disagree with the statement that Parelli does not work for the riding aspects. I used to show my now semi-retired Levels horse in western speed events and english pleasure classes and we always placed. The riding aspects.....as well as the ground work.......are your FOUNDATION. If you don't have the foundation, the fancy stuff will not turn out good. You need "the cake before the icing" as Pat puts it. Also, this is about putting your principles BEFORE your goals......and the goal is showing in this case. 

With my new horse, he has all the potential to be a great dressage and hunter horse. But I refuse to put my goals before my horsemanship. Because if I get the relationship and foundation right, the fancy stuff will be easy, light, and harmonious.


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

Positive reinforcement doesn't work as well with horses, because they are not like dogs--they don't work for praise. They want comfort (safety) then food. That's why creating pressure (negative) then releasing (the positive) works so well with them--you are letting the horse find it's own comfort.
This doesn't mean the horse becomes a machine if it is done right. My horse loves his job, works with me and listens and concentrates, and doesn't ride like he shut his brain off. It means the horse knows how to find comfort... it's almost like he has trained me! 'if I do this, she will leave me alone!' My horse walks up and puts his own halter on (I just hold it) and I ride him until he's tired every day, and he loves every minute of it. Don't ever think that having a consistent horse means riding a machine. I imagine our relationship as a professional working one--he comes out and does his job (loving it is a bonus) and then he gets petted on and groomed and goes back out. I'm not very lovey dovey or treat happy, and I believe my horse thanks me for it.
With that being said, I think Parelli makes your horse a friend, not a coworker. And sometimes when you ask your friend to do something (like... oh, make you a sandwich) your friend goes, 'How about no?' That's why I think the riding aspect isn't good for high level showing. If you only want to do some local breed and/or 4H shows, your horse will be consistent enough to place and maybe get some firsts--but I don't think its good for more serious showing (out of state, national, etc.). When you're riding at the Congress (or some big national hunter/jumper show) you don't want your horse to decide he doesn't want to do something!


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## Sady (Apr 26, 2008)

@Mayfieldk
I can only speak about the ones I have seen around me and that's my impression. If you or everyone else found a good foundation, perfect  

And I have to smile a bit about your comment on positive reinforcement. I'm sorry, but this is not right, absolutely not right. It has nothing to do with horse or dogs, positive reinforcement works with every kind of mammalian, And it works absolutely great with horses, my horse is a good example for it and I know sooo much other examples. I don't know who had tell you. If it doesn't work, it's depending on the trainer ...

Sady


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

My experience with any of the well known training videos (Parelli, Clint Anderson, etc) has been that they can be good sources of ideas and techniques, but that each horse is indeed different and except for the foundation items, you need to find/combine/modify to find what works for your horse. Remember (and not to be critical of them), you are watching successes, and they are in the business of making $$s. Take a simple example...ground tying. My experience is that it is fairly easy to ground tie a horse in a round pen or dry paddock...and they will stay put and well behaved. Try taking that same horse into a lush pasture or in a group with his/her buddies and see what happens.


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## kickshaw (May 7, 2008)

I got into Parelli a few years ago, but was really discouraged when talking to him at a clinic. 

He stated quite bluntly that in his opinion your horse was either a Parelli horse or a show horse - and to expect to not place as well in a class as you could/would if you weren't on his program..."But you know you did good, so it's ok"  

After that, I just couldn't justify spending the $$$ on his methods - although I will say that I still use some of the groundwork techniques. :wink:


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

No, positive reinforcement does not work on every animal. It works on dogs, people, and other predator animals because they are naturally praise oriented, they want to work in a group or pack and do good. Horses, and many other prey animals, are physically not this way. They want COMFORT first. Example: How do you ask your horse to go? You squeeze/tap his sides. It doesn't matter if you say 'good boy' or not after he walks on--the only reason he moved was because you released the leg pressure, not because you praised the horse.
It is a nice idea to think that every animal works with positive reinforcement, but it just is not so. And it's not what I think; it's how most prey animals are hardwired. You say your horse is a good example--can you ride your horse without a bit, bridle, saddle--absolutely nothing, no ropes? And direct him only with voice, or maybe a simple touch? I'm not trying to sound mean but I doubt you can; to work through SOLE positive reinforcement would mean you cannot ride a horse with a bit; that works by negative reinforcement. So does a halter, spurs, leg pressure, ect. The horse gives, the pressure goes away. That is negative reinforcement training. And it works well for a reason; horses do not want praise or petting, they want comfort. Which is to be left alone (ie, why the majority of horses would rather say in a pasture then be bothered with people!). There is nothing wrong with this kind of training, it's just that people sometimes think it's wrong because people think horses are like them; people think horses want, crave, and need praise, because people do not like doing jobs without praise (words, touch, money). Simple fact of the matter is, horses are not people. Horses are not predators. There is nothing wrong with the way they are being trained, and you don't have to beat your horse with anything to get it to do things. If you go through the steps logically, your horse will rarely fight because you taught him well.


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## Dumas'_Grrrl (Apr 2, 2008)

mayfieldk said:


> No, positive reinforcement does not work on every animal. It works on dogs, people, and other predator animals because they are naturally praise oriented, they want to work in a group or pack and do good. Horses, and many other prey animals, are physically not this way. They want COMFORT first. Example: How do you ask your horse to go? You squeeze/tap his sides. It doesn't matter if you say 'good boy' or not after he walks on--the only reason he moved was because you released the leg pressure, not because you praised the horse.
> It is a nice idea to think that every animal works with positive reinforcement, but it just is not so. And it's not what I think; it's how most prey animals are hardwired. You say your horse is a good example--can you ride your horse without a bit, bridle, saddle--absolutely nothing, no ropes? And direct him only with voice, or maybe a simple touch? I'm not trying to sound mean but I doubt you can; to work through SOLE positive reinforcement would mean you cannot ride a horse with a bit; that works by negative reinforcement. So does a halter, spurs, leg pressure, ect. The horse gives, the pressure goes away. That is negative reinforcement training. And it works well for a reason; horses do not want praise or petting, they want comfort. Which is to be left alone (ie, why the majority of horses would rather say in a pasture then be bothered with people!). There is nothing wrong with this kind of training, it's just that people sometimes think it's wrong because people think horses are like them; people think horses want, crave, and need praise, because people do not like doing jobs without praise (words, touch, money). Simple fact of the matter is, horses are not people. Horses are not predators. There is nothing wrong with the way they are being trained, and you don't have to beat your horse with anything to get it to do things. If you go through the steps logically, your horse will rarely fight because you taught him well.



This would explain why Dumas could really care less when we praise him! He just wants to be left alone.


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## tim (Dec 31, 2007)

Nice post mayfield.

A lot of people get negative reinforcement and punishment mixed up. They're not the same. Negative reinforcement, like positive reinforcement, is used to encourage a certain behavior. Punishment is used to discourage behavior. 

Negative reinforcement is defined as the removal of unpleasantries when a desired behavior is exhibited. An example of this with humans happens all the time in jail. When inmates behave well, they might get a shorter sentence. 

Punishment is the addition of unpleasantries when undesirable behavior is exhibited. 

Positive reinforcement of course is praise for good behavior. Its the addition of pleasantries.

I think mayfield is correct when she says that most of the cues we use on horses are based on negative reinforcement. The twist is that _we provide the unpleasantry_ before we give them the opportunity to have it removed. 

Parelli is probably one of the biggest advocates of negative reinforcement in the horse industry. Just about all of his techniques involve a gradient of unpleasantry which is removed when the horse responds favorably. As the horse learns, he begins to drop the intensity of the unpleasantry he provides. 

ANY SMART HORSE PERSON USES THIS TECHNIQUE. It doesn't matter whether you use Parelli or you use other techniques. I just don't see the difference. When you strip away all the surface appearances, the techniques are founded on identical principles. 

The whole universe works this way. _You can even examine human social dynamics closely enough to recognize the laws of physics at work._ 

Sure you can all claim that Parelli is a truly enlightened horseman and he never hits his horses maliciously, and that his techniques are revolutionary and progressive -- but then so am I, and so are the rest of us.

It's all the same.


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## Abby (Nov 26, 2007)

I think finding the right training method for horses is just as difficult as fitting a saddle or shoe. Every horse is different, and every horse has different needs. Not every horse uses an "average" saddle tree as "average" is only that makers _opinion _of average. The same goes for training, ever clinician's _opinion _is that their method works best because it does, _for them_ but their methods might not be best for my horse or my needs or even within my abilities.

Parelli works for two of our horses, and Parelli does not work for another one. My barn manager does Parelli too. Parelli does NOT work for her yearling Tia at all, but it works extremely well for the other yearling named Lacey. It is different for each horse, some horses do not see humans as one of them at all. There for they have a hard time realizing the fact that we are speaking horse while they think we're just being humans! For those horses parelli will either not work at all, or not work at first.

Edited For; SPELLING


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

I will disagree with the statement that Parelli doesn't work for every horse. Parelli is based on using HORSE psychology and using HORSE body language in a way that the HORSE will understand. 

Parelli does not work for every person. I will keep the thoughts of why this is to myself, as I know I would get in trouble! :lol: 

If Parelli "doesn't work" for a horse, it's not the horse's fault or the program's fault. It's the handler's fault. Sounds harsh, but it's true. A horse is a horse. They all have the same needs.....safety, comfort, play, and food. Each Horsenality has a higher priority for a certain need.....like left brained horses are more concerned with food than safety, where right brained horses are the opposite. That's why coaxing a scared, right brained horse into a trailer with food doesn't work! It's our job as aspiring horseman and woman to be able to read the horse and understand what's going on and to know and understand each strategy for each Horsenality. Each strategy is different, and if you use the wrong strategy on a certain horse, of course you will think the program doesn't work :wink: It's just not the right strategy! 

The Parelli program does not discriminate. By that I mean it doesn't just work on a certain kind of horse.....it works for all horses because it's based on HORSE psychology, etc. I've worked with a lot of different breeds.......a lot of different attitudes.......each Horsenality.......different disciplines.......all different horses with their own special qualities.......and it's worked every time.

My new horse is a prime example. He came to me as being labeled a biter, a kicker, a man hater, and an aggressive, dominant, bully of a horse. Only 1 person could ride him and only 3 people could successfully handle him. I've had him a little over 2 months and he has not once tried to bite or kick me, he is around men and has never acted aggressive. He does have a dominant streak in him but that's just him. He knows now he can not intimidate me like he could all the others, but he's okay with that now. He still has emotional and mental barriers up due to his horrible past, but over time those will slowly come down. I have done nothing but Parelli with him and I'm riding him successfully, with a halter and with a bridle. We are doing advanced Level 2 ground work. This horse is very challenging in many different ways. He's not your average back yard horse, he came with baggage and emotional and mental scars and some days I see every one of the Horsenalities in a short session. That is what makes him challenging, but I love it. It's making me grow more as a horseman (woman) and if I wasn't willing to dedicate myself to the study of the Parelli program and to be a student who is striving for excellence, I could EASILY say Parelli wouldn't work for him. But because I am a dedicated student and I understand the theory and can apply it correctly, the only thing I ever get out of any horse I play with is success.


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## jazzyrider (Sep 16, 2007)

i kinda dont like to go with just one. its good to watch a variety of trainer. i like a lot of parelli stuff but i also love frank bell and certain aspects from clinton anderson (dreamy :lol: ) and josh lyons. 

i am not right into it but i incorporate many aspects into the work i do with my guys. the 7 games by parelli is fantastic and builds a great foundation. it also teaches YOU a lot about HOW to communicate with your horse. a lot of other things are easier to figure out when you learn these things. 

so i give a big thumbs up to NH but not just 1 trainer


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

I think the basic of parelli is something that every good horse owner does without realizing it. It's all about knowing how to read the horse and building a bond. All parelli did was turn that "science" into a money making business. 

Those who decide to join this "training method" are the ones who don't really have a good understanding of what horse behavior really is.


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

Teehee, glad to know everyone isn't living in a fantasy land. XD;


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

Mmmm, gee, what a slam at all of us who got into the Parelli program, or who are interested in getting into it :roll: Did it ever occur to you that any of us got into Parelli for actual, legitimate reasons?


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

I really don't see who's slamming it. If you read everything, you'd see that I purchased levels one and two and endorsed it for certain things.
Parelli is great because all it really does is teach the person--and most people are not good 'natural' trainers.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

I don't use Parelli and really can't see myself getting into it; my training methods aren't named (i.e. I don't call myself a user of Parelli, Anderson, etc) however I find I do use "natural" ways of communicating with the horse - if he comes into my space, I act like a horse and get him back out. I know which pressure points will encourage a horse to go forwards (great when teaching round-penning manners or lunging) and backwards. When I'm starting a horse, I don't buck them out, but I don't use "Parelli" methods either - I get them started how I like to start horses - from the ground up. 
I have picked up all these "methods" over many years, and they've worked really well for me, I don't see any sense in changing them... 
I'm not bashing Parelli either, mind you, I think it's a great program for those who want to do it, and it helps a person understand horse mannerisms. I just don't see any use for it for myself, because I think I understand the "horse science" as M2G put it fairly well.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

Spirithorse said:


> Mmmm, gee, what a slam at all of us who got into the Parelli program, or who are interested in getting into it :roll: Did it ever occur to you that any of us got into Parelli for actual, legitimate reasons?


This thread was started to bring all opinions out. This is my view and you are free to take it or leave it.
You are I am sure a responsible horse owner and can make your own decisions as to whether or not you choose to take his program. Congratulations on finding something that works well for you.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

Just seemed like your comment, My2Geldings, was implied to mean that only people who were "inadequate" or "hanicaped" at reading horse behavior were the ones who get into a certain training method. Not a true statement at all. Karen Rohlf is now the Parelli Associate for Dressage and she's been into horses forever. ANYONE can learn something from this program.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

Spirithorse said:


> Just seemed like your comment, My2Geldings, was implied to mean that only people who were "inadequate" or "hanicaped" at reading horse behavior were the ones who get into a certain training method. Not a true statement at all. Karen Rohlf is now the Parelli Associate for dressage and she's been into horses forever. ANYONE can learn something from this program.


First off it's not "hanicaped" but handicapped, second I have no idea how you could possibly interpret my post into what you described. 

"Those who decide to join this "training method" are the ones who don't really have a good understanding of what horse behavior really is." 

You misunderstood the post and I think it would be wise idea to leave it be instead of starting up a fight.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

Gee, sorry for a misspelling handicapped......like it's never happened before to anyone else :? 

I'm not trying to start a fight, just trying to get things cleared up. Don't get mad at me, like you said to me, these are my thoughts and ideas and opinions, take them or leave them.

So now that we are all cleared up on the matter we can all get on with our lives.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I think it's useful.


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## jazzyrider (Sep 16, 2007)

guys can we remember the conscientious etiquette policy please. firstly, picking out spelling mistakes isnt really called for.

and why does every discussion about NH have to border on arguments? some people like it some dont. not a big deal really (not aimed at anyone in particular).


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## tim (Dec 31, 2007)

I like arguments. They're interesting.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

tim said:


> I like arguments. They're interesting.


lol


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## kim_angel (Oct 16, 2007)

While I have personal reasons for not buying Parelli's items... I have bought some of Clinton Anderson's DVD's and love them.

You can buy the rope halters/leads anywhere and you can make your own carrot stick. So dont spend a fortune on them.

There are a lot of great natural horsemanship trainers... so dont forget to check out more than just Parelli. Check out Josh and John Lyons, Clint Anderson, etc....


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## Dumas'_Grrrl (Apr 2, 2008)

I think people should take education from all aspects. To focus on only one method would not be wise. I like Natural Horsemanship in general. I also know folks that have wonderful horses that have never heard of parelli and would tie their horse to a post for 2 days to get the horse willing to accept training. They are all means to an end result. Use the method that works for you.


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## Lc Performance Horses (May 3, 2008)

Im an NH instructor. A horse is an individual, some horses suit it and others dont, despite what they say. Youhave to find what makes your horse tick, my big Tb is parrelli trained he loves it, my Qh hates it, so i deal with him using other methods. I mix and match for some horses, som parrelli, some of other trainers methods, and this seem to work well. Its down to the individual horse. Does it work...Yes.


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## jazzyrider (Sep 16, 2007)

tim said:


> I like arguments. They're interesting.


maybe you do but thats not what we want for the forum. how can we pride ourselves on being a friendly place if we have arguments starting every time people have different opinions? how old do you have to be before maturity kicks in and we realise that petty arguments are best of left in the school yard when we leave school? (i dont mean you as in YOU personally. is more of a blanket 'you'.)

a mature debate is fine but arguing isnt what we are trying to promote here


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Yeah, let's keep it cool in here.


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## tim (Dec 31, 2007)

jazzyrider said:


> a mature debate is fine but arguing isnt what we are trying to promote here


No, I get you Jazzy, I really do. It's just that from my perspective, most of the debates here are fairly mature. People use complete sentences and they don't write LEIK DISSS!!!1!!!111!!!. And frankly, thats a lot more interesting to read than 1,000 people all saying the same thing over and over.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

tim said:


> jazzyrider said:
> 
> 
> > a mature debate is fine but arguing isnt what we are trying to promote here
> ...


I'll agree about well thought-out arguments where each party can be mature and not have a "yea but... she was a meanie" pointless argument.


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

Hoorah for a great debate. You don't hear the candidates calling each other dippy doodle idiots during the political debates. Although it might make them more intersting :lol: There is a difference between a debate/discussion and an argument. 
Ok back to topic :arrow: lets discuss/debate but not argue


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

LOL so true, Vida!!


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