# gypsy horse?



## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I am not a huge fan of the breed but I don't know much about it, so I might be under informed on them. I have meet a few. They were various sizes, very furry/hairy and very expensive. I know there is some dis-agreement about whether they are vanners or drum horses. The majority I see are black/white pintos and I am confused about that. Is it just the predominant pattern or is it the most desired pattern? The ones I have met have been nice horses temperament wise; however, I am confused as to how they are used. I know originally they were cart horses. I don't see many being used for cart or harness work. I sometimes see them undersaddle but more often people are just walking them around. I find it confusing because while its an old breed its also a new breed. In that the traveler (gypsies) have been breeding them for hundreds of years; however, only recently have they become really popular.


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## Ashleysmardigrasgirl (Jun 28, 2012)

The gypsy horse can be any size shape pattern or color. It's more of a type of horse with heavy bone and feather. I personally love them though I'm biased... I've always been partial to draft horses but, I don't enjoy paying more for tack, farrier, taller/larger trailers, etc... Gypsy's are the perfect size for me horse sized, with a draft personality, and generally super friendly (though any horse can be)... I've seen tons of these horses doing anything from side saddle to harness work (part of my reason for buying a gypsy horse)personally I'm trying to work my filly into harness so maybe you should look around some more. Rarely do I see owners just walking their horses around I believe I read somewhere that statistically gypsy owners show their horses more than many other breeds with many times the registered numbers.

Also, the price of the breed is pretty reasonable now a days, high quality horses are selling for extremely discounted to what they were just a few years ago... Not to mention when you compare to back in the mid '80s when everyone was all hyped up about arabs and they ended up selling on average for over $100,000


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

so, I guess I don't the differences between heigh classes. I know miniatures have different height classes and are the differences between vanners, drums and gypsy horses the same way of dividing a breed by height? 

I don't want to come off as bashing the breed. I respect those that have them and they seem like nice horses. I don't anticipate owning one, for the same reason I would never own a fresian there is something I don't love about them. I don't connect with the breed, if that makes sense. Thats not the point, I want to learn more about the breed because I think its interesting and I don't know much about them.


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## BBBCrone (Jan 28, 2012)

Gypsy's can do lots of things. Besides pull carts, there's been some in jumping, western and dressage.

There's a stallion in our area we have had the pleasure to meet.

Indigoinaction

He is a dressage horse. WONDERFUL temperament on him.






Western horse.

They are quite versatile IMO. But this is where my knowledge ends. I like them as a breed and hubby and I were interested in them for endurance/trail but decided there was too much hair to take care of. Also, they are still quite pricey from what we've run across. You can get crosses fairly reasonable but purebreds are still selling real high where we are at.


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## Ashleysmardigrasgirl (Jun 28, 2012)

Vanners aren't really a legit term. It was coined to create a registry/marketing hype for the breed in the usa... Gypsy horse/gypsy cob/irish cob/etc are the equivalent of what most people think is a "gypsy vanner" a drum horse is a mix between a gypsy horse and shire/clyde. There aren't any recognized size classes and to my knowledge are also no recognized mini gypsy horses. As I said before they can be all sizes however generally they are around 12.2-16hh.


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## Mylady (Jan 31, 2013)

We have a lot of small Gypsy horses here in England - ironically they are popular with Irish travellers They have massive horse fairs where they buy, sell and trade horses. They are beautiful breed but I don't really know much about their specs.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

Rookie, you have been already given lots of info here. Read through our _entire_ website and it will tell you just about anything you need to know. 

Lizzie


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

"Also, the price of the breed is pretty reasonable now a days, high quality horses are selling for extremely discounted to what they were just a few years ago... Not to mention when you compare to back in the mid '80s when everyone was all hyped up about arabs and they ended up selling on average for over $100,000"

Whoa! Arabs at Scottsdale sales went for that but not the average horse...not by a long shot. Darn it all!!!!


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

In the Uk they tend to just be called coloured cobs, they come in ahuge variety of sizes but shoud have plenty of bone. Cheap as chips here as they are so common.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

A ton of difference between just any old coloured cob and a true Gypsy Cob/horse, Clava. 

Lizzie


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

I don't see what all the hype is. Yes, they have an excellent temperament but so do many other breeds of horses. A rip off trainer just sold a gypsy horse here for $18,000. This horse did WTC, no lateral work, no collection, no nothing. Oh, and he has another mare for $11,000 who again does wtc only, bucks people off and has not had a single successful pregnancy out of 5. You know what I can get with 11-18k? A finished reiner competing at a national level. It's just ridiculous the prices of these horses who's only real talent is running up the hay bill.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

It is always interesting to me, that (so far) I have never, ever seen any Gypsy Horse owner, come on this forum or any other, to run down the breed of choice for others. Yet, just as the poster above, we constantly see those in other breeds, taking great pleasure, in running down Gypsies. 

Grow up! Allow other equine enthusiasts to love the breed/s they own. Most Gypsy owners came from, or still own, other breeds. I happen to love Saddlebreds and if I were younger, they would still be my breed of choice again. Enjoy your reiners and allow the rest of us, to enjoy our breeds without having to say something nasty.

Lizzie


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## rbarlo32 (Aug 9, 2010)

FeatheredFeet, I am just wondering what you think is the difference between a Gypsy cob and a cob in the UK?


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

A 'cob' can be a heavier boned type horse, of any breed or breeds. A true 'Gypsy Cob', is a horse of a particular look and background. A true Gypsy 'Vanner', is just a Gypsy Cob, who happens to be registered in the Vanner registry. While many seem to think all Gypsies are 'Vanners' these days, it is far from the truth. The majority of us, do not register our horses in that registry. It was just started by a fellow in Florida who had a gift for immense advertising. 

Most of us call our Gypsies, Cobs or Horses. In most European countries, they are known as 'Tinkers'.

A relative of mine in Wales, also breeds Welsh Cobs - another type of 'cob'.
In the late 1800's and early 1900's, my maternal grandfather in Bedwellty, Wales, also bred Welsh Cobs.

Lizzie


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## rbarlo32 (Aug 9, 2010)

I wasn't counting welsh cobs which are predominantly welsh cs and ds. There is no registry in the UK for Gypsy cobs. Most Gypsy horses in the UK are just called cobs and shown in cob classes, a lot of them are starting to get more of a blood line now as well.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

I think the reason people seem to "bash" the gypsies is the OUTRAGEOUS prices the breeders ask for them. Do a search on dreamhorse and you rarely find anything less than $4,500. On the first page there's a mare in foal that has done NOTHING but make babies for $15,500. I can see that price for a horse that's actually DONE something. But not a broodie. Not of ANY breed unless she's retired or has near perfect conformation and highly sought after bloodlines. 

There's a gelding that's broke to ride/drive but has horrid conformation, yet they're still asking $15,000. WHY? You just DON'T see those types of prices for horses that haven't done a whole lot. My gelding rides and is started on the barrel pattern. He's pretty, doesn't have the best conformation. Yet I could probably barely get $1,000 for him. What makes gypsies so special to command those ridiculous prices? Because they're hairy? And spotty? And pretty? I like them, I really do. But I really just don't understand the prices,


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

I'm 100% with Kassierae! I like gypsy horses. I've worked with and ridden several. They are comfortable, level headed, sweet, intelligent and packed with personality! From hands on experience I know they make excellent therapy horses! I'd love to throw one in front of a cart one day, they are very flashy! Sorry, I tend to use reining as my example but I can dig out loads of other $15,000 horses with plenty of accomplishments under their belts. I just can't see shelling out the money, but I guess if people want to that's their prerogative. In my eyes I just don't see why they come with such a high price tag.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

Just like in any breed, if you look around, I think you will find the outrageous prices and the reasonable. We have sold our youngsters for _very_ reasonable prices, compared to some advertised. And yes, our breeding stock were extremely expensive, when adding upwards of $10-$12 thousand dollars for the importing fees. Some of our breeding stock, were also picked on trips to the UK. Most people I think, look at a very few websites of those who have enormous advertising budgets and have their horses priced accordingly. But there are thousands of Gypsy breeders in the US, who have lovely stock, but don't ask or command, some of the prices of others. And there again, one wonders if some ever actually get, the prices asked. As in any breed, it's all about the homework one does and not necessarily just looking at the first ads which might appear on google. Our shows are also very well attended, with sometimes over 100 horses entered. 

There must be about 40,000 Gypsies in the US now, so few are importing. The majority have known backgrounds and DNA'd backgrounds. Our world-wide Gypsy DNA project is immense. This includes Gypsies in the UK, the US and all European countries. I believe there are two registries in the UK now.

Lizzie


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

Rarely in my breeds of choice(Minis, appaloosas, paints/quarter horses) do you see a horse that has done nothing for those prices. Rarely. In those breeds a horse has to actually DO something to be worth those kinds of prices. Heck, even most prospects of excellent quality stock and bloodlines don't even sell for that kind of money!

Edit: Yes, if you look around, you will find them. But that's the point I'm trying to make, you don't have to look around to find those ridiculous prices for the gypsies. It's all over.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

One of the highest priced Minis I knew, sold for $100,000. As far as I know, he hadn't done anything. Didn't even have a known pedigree for more than a couple of generations. He is gone now and sired a whole ton of offspring.

Every breed have their enthusiasts. If one wants one of a particular breed, and if one has the money, as in the case of that Mini, I suppose it is up to the buyer, as to how much he/she pays. Nobody else's business really. 

We like our Gypsies, just as we like other equine breeds. For many years, I have attended the Cutting Horse championships. Very exciting, but I wouldn't expect a Gypsy to excel at it, although quite a few in the 
US, do it for their owners. This, just as I wouldn't expect a QH, to pull a caravan, weighing over a ton. Gypsies love to jump but I wouldn't expect to see them competing in higher levels. Each breed has their own area of expertise, if well bred and given the chance. Many can do a lot of things, but not necessarily make a name for themselves at it.

Lizzie


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

I'm not saying anything bad about them, in fact I've said that I like them. Would I own one? Probably not, they don't suit my needs. I just don't understand the need for ridiculous prices. Like I said on dreamhorse the first few pages the absolute cheapest was $4,500. I know people like what they like, but again I just don't understand the reasoning behind the prices.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

Forgot to add, that a couple of months ago, I was looking at a Mini stallion I liked. He is a pretty buckskin tobiano, with a nice pedigree. He has produced some nice offspring. However, his $12,000 price tag, is more than we could afford or be willing to pay. I looked at another, who was a bay roan stallion. Gorgeous, but way more than I could afford. Minis are two-a-penny now, with thousands being sold for nothing, given away or ending up in auctions. Very sad for the breed. When was the last time you saw a Gypsy in a public auction or rescue. I know of less than a handful which had to be rehomed and only one which was at an auction in Florida. And this with Gypsies having been in the US now, since the 1980's.

Incidentally, the Gypsy seen in the Florida auction, was bred and sold originally, by a fairly famous trainer, who breeds and shows several other breeds. He also breeds designer dogs. Too bad that he would not agree to get this horse back and rehome it.

Forgot to add, we also have Minis, an Arab and a palomino Paint mare, which my granddaughters own.

Lizzie


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## Ashleysmardigrasgirl (Jun 28, 2012)

my bad guys I misread the story 


In 1968, the top auction price for a top-quality Arabian was $25,000. In 1970, the average price was $30,000 and by 1985, the average price would jump to $478,000, and in between, numerous breeders tried to hitch their wagon to this shooting star.

Arabian Market

here's the reasoning for the prices - basic marketing/business

first, supply and demand. This was a 'new' breed so there weren't very many and you could charge what you wanted. People saw them liked them and purchased them for the asking price. 

Then from there it really comes down to what someone's willing to pay. Obviously there are people in the USA not willing to pay what you all describe as a 5 figure sums for the average aqha un/barely started and unproven yet, there is/was a demand for gypsy horses and there is/was someone willing to pay the asking prices. If there wasn't someone willing to pay the asking price they wouldn't be able to charge it.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

So if they are not using the vanner registry are they registered as gypsy horses or gypsy cobs? Is there any resistance by the traveler/romani community who often finds the term gypsy to be a derogatory term? When you did import how did you research the horses? I just feel that when importing a horse (no matter the breed) you can easily get shafted because you could be seen as the wealthy american with more money then brain.

I am sorry for starting this thread where people would feel that their breed was being bashed. I own standardbreds and I hate it when people bash my breed, so I am sorry. 

I think price is all about what you feel the horse is worth. "A horse is only worth what someone will pay for it". If someone wants to pay 20,000 dollars than that horse will be worth 20,000 dollars. Its not my place to say a horse is or is not worth x amount. I know a whole bunch of well bred and well trained mini's that sell for thousands. It not my place to say that people are over or underpaying. If you like your horse then you probably don't feel that you paid to much for it.


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## Ashleysmardigrasgirl (Jun 28, 2012)

If theyre not a registered gypsy vanner theyre considered a gypsy cob or gypsy horse, generally speaking of course. Hopefully featheredfeet can answer your other question since shes much more educated in personal experience with the gypsy/romany people. Im quite certain featheredfeet has stated that she often went to the uk and spoke with the people breeding these horses and personally chose her breeding stock. Please correct me if im wrong. Anyone can be had especially when purchasing a horse sight unseen so its kind of a mute point imo. Anyone in their right mind would do their homework first, imo, of course. I couldnt agree more with your last statement, until someone not willing to pay the price then thats when something has got to give same with everything not just horses.

I personally just plain love horses


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

So if they are not using the vanner registry are they registered as gypsy horses or gypsy cobs? Is there any resistance by the traveler/romani community who often finds the term gypsy to be a derogatory term? When you did import how did you research the horses? I just feel that when importing a horse (no matter the breed) you can easily get shafted because you could be seen as the wealthy american with more money then brain.

We have several registries. I wish we had less. However, some register in all and others only in the registry of their choice. In the early days of the breed in the US, the person who started the vanner registry and many of his cronies, put about that vanners were somehow better than those registered in other registries. Ridiculous of course, since many full siblings/sires/dams, were registered in other registries. Luckily, his many ridiculous statements, have now almost disappeared.

The Gypsy breeders in the UK, are not at all upset by the 'Gypsy' name. Maybe more would be upset by the 'Tinker' name, used for the breed in most European countries. 

When importing, I think it is important to always do a lot of homework. Visit the seller and see their horses, when at all possible. In fact visit all the breeders of quality horses. That, or go with someone who can introduce you to those who have a good history in the breed. If you cannot visit, see horses and talk to people here who have imported. Find out how the deal went and if they were happy. Remember, whatever the original cost, you can add a huge amount of money for importing and quarantine fees. Then there is transportation from the quarantine station to your home. If a stallion refuses to breed and settle a mare while in quarantine (which they are required to do) then if he must stay for a long time, fees add up quickly.

Lizzie


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

Lizzie thats really interesting. I was sort of confused by all the registries. I went to equine affaire and there were like three breed booths and I was like why? 

Can you explain the negative connotation behind the "tinker" name is it just a something associated with the way of life that was the travelers?


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

Can you explain the negative connotation behind the "tinker" name is it just a something associated with the way of life that was the travelers? 

Exactly. Generations ago, Gypsies and Irish Travellers, would go around repairing tin pots and pans. That is how they became known as Tinkers.

I remember when Gypsies delivered out green vegetables, in a cart each week. That was when I saw my first Gypsy Horse. I also remember a Gypsy fellow in Wales, who would come around to my grandmother's house and others, to sharpen our knives. He pushed a large peddle, grinding wheel, from which he would on the road outside.

Lizzie


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## KellySearson (Feb 5, 2013)

We purchased our first Gypsy in 2003. I chose to register that mare, along with all of our subsequent Gypsies, with the Gypsy Vanner Horse Society. I wanted to show and, at the time, the GVHS was the only registry with a show schedule.
There are several registries, and I wish there were fewer. There are differences between them (for example some register cross breds, some don't) but many of the horses are duel or triple registered. Although my horses are registered with the GVHS, I have never led anyone to believe that my horses are different than those registered in other Gypsy registries. I have represented the GVHS in breed booths and shows and explained the lack of difference in public as well.
In my opinion, it is unfortunate that developing an organization and then gathering a support base through the use of technology is extremely easy in today's world. Facts spread quickly, but misinformation seems to whiz around the world at warp speed. So hard to separate truth from untruth.


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