# Another OTTB Critique..



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Cute!! Friendly and well cared for. Pictures taken nicely. Unfortunately pictures taken from very slight angles to make it difficult to critique accurately.

I would be slightly concerned about him jumping that high, especially if he has also raced. He is still a baby! Once or twice or is this a regular thing?
Also.. is he actually 16.1 or is the (lovely!) lady riding him an Amazon?

He may be a bit over at the knee and I don't like how he is standing (spread out). A good trim might fix both of those. Pasterns a little long, but normal for a TB. I like that he's not standing on toothpicks.

If he passes a good vet check I would definitely consider him. I really like him. He is cute and a looker and just has a very friendly expression. What are your plans?

Is he in regular work (as the clip suggests?) I would love to see some videos, he looks like a nice mover.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I am no good at confo critiques, but wanted to say he is gorgeous under saddle. And has an adorable face 8> Are you going to go try him out?


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## sarahfongsilva (Sep 28, 2012)

I just found out that he was never raced! So that helps with the concerns the usually revolve around that. He was only free jumped a couple times. I guess he is coursing around 2'0 right now. But not on a daily basis. 

He is actually 16.2, the lady is evidently really tall...
She told me he passed a vet check and has clean x rays! 
He doesnt get worked as regularly as he was a couple months ago, thus the cheap price.

In the long scheme of things I'm looking to do the 1.20's-1.30's. 
But that wouldnt be for awhile. If I get him then I'll just do flat classes this year, maybe the baby cross bar classes. He has nice enough movement to be a hunter as well.


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

Just because someone says the horse passed a vet check doesn't mean you don't need to do your own.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

I really like him.... except his front legs. It could be that the handler set him up to stand funny, but to have two different pictures with him standing funny with weight transferred back off the near fore to me screams more than coincidence. I would want the x-rays (complete with date they were taken) sent to my vet for independent evaluation. He's steep through the croup.
My advice to you is to get an independent vet check and make sure x-rays are recent. I personally really dislike his front legs and worry about long term soundness, especially over the meters.
Do you have video of him?


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## sarahfongsilva (Sep 28, 2012)

I know, i'm still going to do my own..
I am going to ask for all the info and paperwork she has and shoot it over to my vet.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I wouldn't kick him out of my yard. I like.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

That he never raced is good, though I am still a little wary of the jumping, though hopefully it is sparingly.

He really doesn't look 16.2 but some people (even shorter people) just make a horse look small. Shrug. You'll find out when you see him.

I agree, do your own vet check. First she needs _proof_ that he passed and for you to talk to the vet about anything/everything, even so I would suggest doing your own.

You didn't mention an actual price but a horse being slightly out of shape isn't a reason to drop it drastically.

Check out those front legs/feet _thoroughly._ Then go for it.


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## shesocalifornia (Nov 24, 2013)

I know nothing of conformation....he is very nice looking. Don't know if it is a weird angle of the photo taker but he doesn't stand with his front legs under him in those first two photos. Maybe he is standing funny. Maybe a video would help.  that lady does look huge on him lol. I like him but wonder about soundness. Let us know what you find out. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

This horse is at his maximum height in jumping. His front end is not built well for jumping and the two photos of him free jumping.. where horses usually look their best confirm what I am about to say. 

This horse is down hill and has a closed angle at the point of shoulder. This means he will have trouble getting his knees up over fences. The one photo his forearm is actually pointing DOWN and this is very dangerous for a jumping horse. It also looks like he got in close and missed a good take off spot. So we go to photo 2 where he is a ways over the jump and even here.. his forearm is down hill. He is NOT a horse I would jump competitively other than baby stuff.. no more than 2 feet. 

He has good bone but is straight thru the hocks and has a longish coupling that is weak. This coupling and straight hocks will cost him scope over fences as well. 

His hocks and knees do appear to be placed reasonably low. Nice enough horse but not for anything higher level based on these photos.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Elana said:


> This horse is at his maximum height in jumping. His front end is not built well for jumping and the two photos of him free jumping.. where horses usually look their best confirm what I am about to say.
> 
> This horse is down hill and has a closed angle at the point of shoulder. This means he will have trouble getting his knees up over fences. The one photo his forearm is actually pointing DOWN and this is very dangerous for a jumping horse. It also looks like he got in close and missed a good take off spot. So we go to photo 2 where he is a ways over the jump and even here.. his forearm is down hill. He is NOT a horse I would jump competitively other than baby stuff.. no more than 2 feet.
> 
> ...


He clears it but not nicely.

As always excellent critique. I just have to say I didn't even notice his shoulder angle... the clip line threw me off  I was distracted by how nice he looks and the clip line make his humerus/angle look better. Heh, and that is why you always get a second opinion, I didn't even notice! :shock:

That does make me wonder if the odd way he is standing was intentional to make his shoulder look more open. Pretty drastic but who knows.


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## sarahfongsilva (Sep 28, 2012)

Thanks for the input guys! I actually have videos of him free jumping and under saddle. I think the reason he looks so funky free jumping is cause they did it in this TINY space! Like literally two or three canter strides to the jump. And then landing wise he has like two strides till he hits the fence. I'm going to go look at him anyways, maybe do a month trial. He goes REALLY nice under saddle so if anything he would be a resell project for an amateur that is looking to do 2'3-2'6. And I'll have my vet come out and do the whole shebang, xrays and all. Soundness is a big factor for me, especially wanting to do the high classes. He's only 2k though so keeping him for this show season and seeing how he does (just flat, maybe cross bar classes)


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Ehhhhhh not really reason to have awful forelimb position. I knew there was something else I wanted to touch on! I *hate* horses that do that. There's IMO nothing worse than hanging knees. Sure horses may hang if they've caught a really bad distance and are trying to just get over, but it would really worry me if it was a regular thing. You're asking for a rotational fall. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EmmaWay24 (Aug 5, 2012)

For 2,000 he is a steal! (IMO) lots of riders in my barn would love to own him for that price. Elena, would it be possible to quickly elaborate on the "closed" shoulder, I've recently begun taking hunter jumper lessons and am interested in good jump conformation. I have always read that a sloping shoulder is good because it means a longer stride, is that the case? I really appreciated your marks on the photo, is a wider angle between the chest and forearm (pardon my lack of nomenclature) more desirable? I've read a fair amount on this forum but people seem to be of varying opinions and skill level in judgment 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Closed refers to the angle between the shoulder blade and humerus (from point of shoulder to elbow). The openness of the angle effects the range of movement in the front legs, so for a jumper where you really want those legs up an open angle is particular important. You want a nice laid back/sloping shoulder, but that angle is also important.

I know your question wasn't directed at me, just trying to help  Feel free to ignore me if Elana says otherwise!


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Yogiwick nailed it.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

(Yay!)

EmmaWay I would _definitely_ recommend this book if you are interested in conformation. It breaks it down _very _well and thoroughly without being overly technical and it talks about "ideal" but also makes it clear that what may be "ideal" for one horse (say jumper) isn't necessarily ideal for say a reiner. My friend borrowed mine to help her study and ended up basically using it to teach her the class!

-The Horse Conformation Handbook by Heather Smith Thomas


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## Surayya (Dec 7, 2011)

I totally agree with Elana on this horse.

*H*owever, I think he'd make a lovely flat horse for local & regional level flat classes (at least he would in my county- our hack, park hack, riding/sport horse & even saddle hunter rings are LOADED with TB's lol), if nothing else is amiss etc. 
However, for the jumping you want to do (1.2-1.3m), he simply isnt built to cope with it- the impact will eventually take it's toll, since he has to put in so much extra effort just to clear every fence you face him up too, as he wont find it 'easy' to coil up for power over larger fences, nor snap up over the fences to avoid rails-ie. the more he has to push himself to his limits to clear fences the higher the risks of him injuring himself (& those pics of him free jumping, show they are much higher than his 'comfort' level- the small space should have him sitting back on his quarters more & therefore jumping better over uprights IMO. Another consideration on the way he jumps, is it feels different- I find riding dropped knees over fences is HORRIBLE, it feels like there's anchors hanging off of their forehand & scares the panties off of me when jumping 'larger' fences & as mentioned above- its dangerous, but then others dont seem to mind the feeling, so yeah, just another thing to consider  )

I'd personally hold out for a horse with a more appropriate shoulder angle & foreleg conformation, so it's more suited to do the job you want it to do. At least then you are less likely to have it break down under the work you ask of it, but again that's just my opinion though. Maybe you could buy him if his xrays & vet check etc. are clear, school him up & sell him on as a flat horse or all rounder, hopefully for a bit of profit, to go towards a more suitable horse for yourself? (this is how I used to fund my own horses  ) Just an idea. Good luck.


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