# Sitting a funky lope



## BuckyGold (Nov 8, 2017)

My quarter horse has the need for speed and I love to love but I have a problem sitting his lope. Even when going straight his line tends to twist my body, my right hip and leg go forward while the opposites go back. I keep my heels down and hug the seat with my knees the best I can but it's hard to focus on so many things at once


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## thecolorcoal (Jan 28, 2015)

i really have admiration for western riders and their riding style. as an english rider i have noticed i balance way too much on the reins. western riders need a seat like no other since contact is so mild! 

does he tend to speed up or is his stride just very big? relax your hips - that is step one.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Sounds like he's crooked and when he moves he's pushing you off to one side or the other. You can stand in front & behind and see if his shoulders & hips are unequal and if so (most are to some degree) buy a pad like a Diamond Wool Contour Pad with Shims that will even him up. I use them on my horses that are just getting started, I can shim left shoulder & right hip, right should & left hip or keep it all on one side if that's what the horse needs. You can also buy extra shims to go in the pockets. 

https://www.statelinetack.com/item/diamond-wool-contour-relief-pad-w-shim-pockets/E006939%203030%20BUR/?srccode=GPSLT&gclid=Cj0KCQjwm6HaBRCbARIsAFDNK-h1gvk01-rYni308l7txx_AEIdUXCiwUgmSElsH69FlrbAyxB5ke9waAvjMEALw_wcB&kwid=productads-adid^160627723370-device^c-plaid^275361959697-sku^496921-adType^PLA

If that's not the problem, have someone watch you and see if you're collapsing over your rib cage. For instance if you collapse over the left side, your right leg will get very straight and fall back, the left one will bend at the knee and come up and you'll 'twist'.


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

In addition to what @Dreamcatcher Arabians mentioned, is it possible the horse is crossfiring? That may not be the proper terminology for it, but old timers used it to describe a horse that was on one lead in front, and the opposite lead in the rear. Feels like a washing machine.


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## Boo Walker (Jul 25, 2012)

The lope or canter takes time. For a crooked unbalanced horse, it takes lots of time. We're talking 20-40 hours of canter work to develop the horse and the rider. 

Time yourself cantering around the arena one time. Probably under ten seconds. That sounds pretty easy. Now canter for 4-5 minutes. At this point, you're tired, your horse is tired but the good news is that you've logged in five minutes towards your 20 hours of practice. 

What I'm trying to demonstrate is that it takes a lot of work so be consistent and be patient if this is a gait you really want to develop for you and your horse. 

He'll get to the point where he has the muscle and discipline to lope correctly and it won't feel so funky. You'll get stronger so that you can sit up and ride the lope without gripping with your knees or thighs, your butt muscles will be relaxed so you're not popping up and smacking his back with each stride. Good luck!


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Whether western or english you should never balance on the rein. Your seat and legs should provide that balance. That you do so says you need to be working on your balance and how to effectively use your seat and leg. Direct contact should not equal you and your horse using the reins as a teeter totter or pushme pullme.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

thecolorcoal said:


> i really have admiration for western riders and their riding style. as an english rider i have noticed i balance way too much on the reins. western riders need a seat like no other since contact is so mild!



Hmmm...lest people start thinking that English riders use reins for balancing: I ride in English tack and I have hardly any contact while cantering (barely taking out the slack) - on the trail - taking corners - ducking under branches - through the occasional stumble and spook - whether or not in two-point. The only thing that makes me "English" and not "Western", other than the chosen tack, is the two-handed rein handling.


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

BuckyGold said:


> My quarter horse has the need for speed and I love to love but I have a problem sitting his lope. Even when going straight his line tends to twist my body, my right hip and leg go forward while the opposites go back. I keep my heels down and hug the seat with my knees the best I can but it's hard to focus on so many things at once


Your main concern BuckyGold seems related more to your horse’s positioning than to its speed.

The movement of the lope or canter requires that one shoulder and hip travel in advance of the other should and hip – right hip and shoulder in the right lead, left hip and shoulder in the left lead. This is why people skip when imitating a horse cantering. Generally, the angle of the horse’s hips and shoulders is not so great as to cause problems in following the motion. Not unless the rider is trying to fight rather than follow his horse’s body.

With that said, some horse’s throw their “leading” hip to the inside as well as drawing it forward. This is done to relieve the stress put on this leg. The inside leg works the hardest when a horse is cantering properly.

If I were working with this horse, I would first determine whether it takes both leads. I would also observe its movement to determine whether the horse’s body is lined up with the direction of travel. If a rider pays no attention to how his horse travels, the horse may always canter in the same lead. One motivator for this is stiffness along one side of a horse’s body.

Knowledge of horse anatomy and movement is helpful in developing a canter that is straighter and ultimately easier on the horse’s body. Various lateral exercises have been developed to help improve the flexibility and strength of a horse’s muscles in pursuit of this goal.

Working in the early 1700's, Francois Robichon de la Gueriniere is noted for promoting the shoulder-in as the primary exercise for developing a horse capable of cantering straight and changing leads without swinging its rear from side to side. The shoulder-fore and demi-shoulder-in (now often referred to as the shoulder-in) are exercises used progressively in moving toward work in the shoulder-in itself.

Those not familiar with these exercises often use other forms of exercise in attempts to achieve the same goal. One is to take a horse deep into the corners of an arena to get it to step further beneath its body with its inside hind leg. Another is to work on climbing straight up hills rather than traveling diagonally up these hills.

The ultimate goal is to help a horse become more flexible and strong so it can canter with its spine in line with its direction of movement.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Don't worry about heels down and don't hug with your knees.


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## thecolorcoal (Jan 28, 2015)

mmshiro said:


> Hmmm...lest people start thinking that English riders use reins for balancing: I ride in English tack and I have hardly any contact while cantering (barely taking out the slack) - on the trail - taking corners - ducking under branches - through the occasional stumble and spook - whether or not in two-point. The only thing that makes me "English" and not "Western", other than the chosen tack, is the two-handed rein handling.


sure, english riders can not have contact, but western riders predominantly do not ride in contact the way we do. i am a predominantly dressage rider and I have been noticing I use the reins for balance, and watching a few reining shows where the riders stick their hands way out in front riding a galloping horse can't be as easy as it looks, can it? trying to give western a few points here.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

thecolorcoal said:


> sure, english riders can not have contact, but western riders predominantly do not ride in contact the way we do. i am a predominantly dressage rider and I have been noticing I use the reins for balance, and watching a few reining shows where the riders stick their hands way out in front riding a galloping horse can't be as easy as it looks, can it? trying to give western a few points here.


That's what I don't understand: Whatever level your contact is, you have to follow the horse's head to keep the contact _constant_, so that signaling with the bit, _change_ in contact, means something to the horse. How can the horse understand a half-halt if the bit is constantly wiggling in its mouth due to your rebalancing yourself, or due to its head moving, but your hands aren't following?

And Western riders don't get bonus points for sitting on a horse at constant speed. They get bonus points for sitting on a horse that rapidly changes speed and direction while doing something entirely different with their hands, say using a rope.


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## BuckyGold (Nov 8, 2017)

He definitely speeds up in a lope, I haven't been able to lope on him for long because he speeds up, his lope is bumpy and my but starts to flop in the seat, and he braces against the bit. I worked with a trainer yesterday who helped me learn the one rein stop at a walk and trot. She told me that I push my heels down too much that it pushes my seat forward but that I fixed it quickly


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

If he speeds up and is bracey he's probably feeling just as unbalanced as you are. He rushes to try and feel more balanced.


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

BuckyGold said:


> He definitely speeds up in a lope, I haven't been able to lope on him for long because he speeds up, his lope is bumpy and my but starts to flop in the seat, and he braces against the bit. I worked with a trainer yesterday who helped me learn the one rein stop at a walk and trot. She told me that I push my heels down too much that it pushes my seat forward but that I fixed it quickly


A horse can't brace against the bit if you don't resist him. Give when he tries to lean on the bit. Then, smoothly regain contact when he relaxes his attempt. Softly asked him to re-balance and slow down. If he tries to lean on the bit, give on the reins so he can't. Then, repeat the process.

If you tense your muscles, the horse will probably interpret this as a request to speed up. Release the tension in your muscles. Let gravity pull your weight down on either side of the horse. By releasing tension in your muscles, you can more easily follow the horse's movements and maintain your balance without gripping with legs and reins. Practicing at a walk will help establish habits that can, then, be used in faster gaits.

As a bonus, when you release tension in your muscles, the horse will generally release tension in his muscles and his movements will become smoother. When you want a faster gait, "whisper" the cues.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

For a western lope, you shouldn't need much contact. If he goes too fast, use the bit to tell him to slow a gait. Then get out of his mouth and you can try a canter again. If he can't control himself at a canter, then you might need lessons cantering on another horse until you are comfortable.

You also might try short, straight canters. 30-50 yards and slow. Repeat after a minute of walking. Easy on the horse. Teaches him speed isn't needed, since he's only going to slow down again. The transitions are good practice. And it is easier to get the feel of a canter/lope going straight.


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## thecolorcoal (Jan 28, 2015)

mmshiro said:


> That's what I don't understand: Whatever level your contact is, you have to follow the horse's head to keep the contact _constant_, so that signaling with the bit, _change_ in contact, means something to the horse. How can the horse understand a half-halt if the bit is constantly wiggling in its mouth due to your rebalancing yourself, or due to its head moving, but your hands aren't following?
> 
> And Western riders don't get bonus points for sitting on a horse at constant speed. They get bonus points for sitting on a horse that rapidly changes speed and direction while doing something entirely different with their hands, say using a rope.



This is veering off topic but I feel inclined to respond.


In my riding contact is not give-take-give-take at the level that I want to be riding at. You don't put pressure on the mouth, then release, then put pressure, then release so that it's *everything *or *nothing. *As I understand it, and I don't claim to understand much, western contact is "signaling" where any movement in the mouth is an aid. In dressage, you want one steady pressure, and additional pressure is an aid. So if you have 3 lbs of pressure on the bit, 5 lbs is a half halt, then release back to 3 lbs. 



It really isn't a matter of right or wrong it is simply a _style_ of riding. Western gets points for what you stated above, but I also give it props to a riding style where you CAN'T balance on the reins and HAVE to have a seat because the contact is 0 pounds to 3 pounds to 0 pounds - just as an example. I admire that greatly, and I want my horse to be able to work with that extreme lightness.


Again, disclaimer states I don't know anything, but too many in my discipline are quick to call western riding "easier" than their style and here I am trying to get information on why they are wrong. I certainly DO NOT feel comfortable giving my horse 0 lbs of pressure in a trail situation or a situation where she could spook. My personal goal is to get to that level, so those who feel comfortable with no contact are sort of... amazing to me!  



Sorry, back to the topic of the thread.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

thecolorcoal said:


> sure, english riders can not have contact, but western riders predominantly do not ride in contact the way we do. i am a predominantly dressage rider and I have been noticing I use the reins for balance, and watching a few reining shows where the riders stick their hands way out in front riding a galloping horse can't be as easy as it looks, can it? trying to give western a few points here.


Oh but they do have contact...
That horse is ridden with leg and seat, between the legs is the animal and between the legs is your points of communication.
That is not different English to western or any variation...
Your reins are your aide.
Your seat bones and crotch and your legs, the entire leg is your steering and part of your speed control setting.

And yes, "watching a few reining shows where the riders stick their hands way out in front riding a galloping horse can't be as easy as it looks, can it?" _It is as easy as it looks on a balanced and trained horse..._
Takes time to get to that ability being displayed in a show ring...
It did _*not *_happen overnight.


I ride/rode H/J and Equitation...my "main" riding discipline actually. 
I could throw away my horse and still ride, turn serpentine's by leg pressure if I wanted, half-pass a ring holding rein buckle.
Learning to rate your horse and hold them at a desired gait and speed, let alone steer them took years of practice and many sore body parts while learning it.
Now, my friends when their horse is feisty ask me to ride them and they mine so no fight is ruining our day of trails.. _Now I sit on a western saddle but still use much of my "English" training._
First thing I do is sit down, sit down on my butt & seat bones, loosen my grip on their sides and throw away the grip and tension conveyed in the reins... the looser I ride the more relaxed the horse responds as there is no fight to fight them...
They can't fight me and balance against me as I don't have them...they fall on their face...boom!


_Sorry OP...we rambled off but now back on track... 
_
_For some reason your horse is not or seems to not be tracking straight...drag the arena and ride...then go carefully look at your foot prints and see if you see what is happening..._
_That's all I've got...but look & see what is happening and let us know._
_Many here can interpret footfall patterns precisely... issue or not.:smile:
_
:runninghorse2:_..._
_jmo...
_


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## BuckyGold (Nov 8, 2017)

I have no way of tracking my hoof prints, no trailer of my own to go to an arena I have to rely on others. I've been lunging and trotting him in the round pen(it's not big enough for him to lope in, 30ft diameter) to build up his muscle at least 3 times a week. When I ride him I use one hand on the reins above his withers so he has slack and if he's keeping a steady pace he gets to keep the slack until I want to change directions. If I go to change directions and he is stiff in the neck and sticks his nose out I bend his head and neck to my knee and use that same side leg to bump his rear end completely around until he is pivoting on the fronts and only moving his backs, when that happens I give him the slack back and he stops on his own and sighs


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

BuckyGold said:


> ...If I go to change directions and he is stiff in the neck and sticks his nose out I bend his head and neck to my knee...


Why? He's probably stiff in the back, slightly overbalanced inside the turn and moving his head/nose to the outside to compensate. It could be that you are overbalanced on the inside, pulling him in, and he's trying to compensate for that. Either way, why pull his head to your knee? :eek_color:


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## BuckyGold (Nov 8, 2017)

It's a way of getting him to be soft, if when I go to turn and he's stiff I get his head to my leg until I feel him soften in the face. He learns from the release of the pressure. I should be able to bend his head and neck with minimal touch, just a finger and thumb. He should be soft, not playing tug of war.


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## BuckyGold (Nov 8, 2017)

Forgot to mention I'm a western rider


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

BuckyGold said:


> It's a way of getting him to be soft, if when I go to turn and he's stiff I get his head to my leg until I feel him soften in the face. He learns from the release of the pressure. I should be able to bend his head and neck with minimal touch, just a finger and thumb. He should be soft, not playing tug of war.


Disagree. STRONGLY disagree with the whole "rubber neck" concept of "soft"!

A horse should be responsive. How well he responds in a turn depends in part on how flexible his body is (I'm 60 so I know the feeling!) and how well he responds to a cue.

Pulling his head to your knee will NOT make him more responsive or help him to turn better. It is more likely to make him worse. Forget about that "soft face" stuff. Concentrate on getting him responsive and willing and able. He doesn't have a NECK problem. If he needs to nibble his side, he can and will. He has a balance problem, or a stiffness problem, or an understanding problem. Or a mix of all three.


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## DreamerR (Dec 17, 2017)

You described how counter-cantering feels. Do you have someone on the ground watching who can watch and check his leads?


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

Whether riding “Western” or “English”, a change at the bit should indicate a signal to the horse. “Contact” can be a result of direct – “constant” or “following” – pressure between the rider’s hands and the horse’s mouth, particularly when using a snaffle bit. It can also be the result of the weight of the reins, usually in conjunction with a leveraged bit. A rider may feel there is zero pressure at his hands at the same time a horse feels some pressure at its mouth due to the weight of the reins and the bit. A change in the pressure (“contact”) may be the result in various changes of a rider’s hands – lift, pull, etc.

A rider’s balance should not depend on the reins. A rider’s balance should be the result of gravity and the movement of his or her body in relation to the movement of the horse. This is commonly referred to as an “independent seat”. Then, another form of “contact” is achieved through a rider’s seat and legs. This contact is influenced by changes in weight (or balance), pressure, and movement – or lack thereof.

Horses often increase their speed at a lope when a rider allows the horse to become unbalanced to the front while leaning on the bit as the rider holds the reins in an effort to keep the horse balanced. The horse may also increase its speed because the rider applies leg pressure – intentionally or unintentionally – by tensing his or her leg muscles. A horse may also increase its speed because a rider is bouncing on the horse’s back.


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

BuckyGold said:


> It's a way of getting him to be soft, if when I go to turn and he's stiff I get his head to my leg until I feel him soften in the face. He learns from the release of the pressure. I should be able to bend his head and neck with minimal touch, just a finger and thumb. He should be soft, not playing tug of war.



Many riders gauge the tenseness of a horse’s muscles by how it reacts to side pressure of the reins. A horse that is generally tense will be less responsive to such pressure. As the horse releases “emotional” tension, it becomes more responsive to such pressure and bends its head and neck – often to the rider’s knee.

This technique deals with “emotional” pressure. It does not, however, deal with “physical” stiffness in the muscles of a horse’s back or sides that may be influencing how the horse moves.


"Physical stiffness" may be one cause of "emotional tension". However, overcoming "emotional tension" does not automatically overcome "physical stiffness".


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## BuckyGold (Nov 8, 2017)

He flexes perfectly from the ground, light as a feather, but in the saddle he is far more stiff. Next time I go to ride if someone is there I'll have them watch the leads.


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## BuckyGold (Nov 8, 2017)

The purpose of the one rein stop is to reinforce the stop at every gait. If anyone has read my other threads I've mentioned my horse is stiff and it's nearly impossible to stop him at a lope, not only does he have a funky lope but he goes faster and faster. So I can't just ride him out because he doesn't go a consistent speed and I can't keep my butt in the saddle, it becomes dangerous so I have to stop him. This is the purpose of the one rein stop, helping teach that he shouldn't brace against the bit but to yeild to it. So when I pick up on the reins at the lope when he speeds up he'll slow it down without a problem.


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