# New horse!!



## CBailey04 (Dec 19, 2011)

hey i just looked at another post from not too long ago and i think I answered my own question, but I didn't know that dun's had a base + the dun (dorsal and zebra stripes). Does anyone have a clue what her base might be?


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Do you have any better pictures? Side shots maybe?

From this picture alone, I'm guessing buckskin is correct. But I can't be for certain since it's not a really great picture to judge...


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## CBailey04 (Dec 19, 2011)

i do have more pics but not any good back shots, if you look closely you can see her stripe on her butt She's an hour away & I'm not picking her up til next week, so I can't really take anymore right now:/ All that I've read on here is if they have the stripe they are automatically a dun, U think thats right? B/c i'm with you, she looks just like a buckskin color except for that


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

This horse definitely has what it known as "black points", which are the black above the knees and hocks.
I've got a Dun QH and I've learned that "Dun" is a throwback to a prehistoric color pattern. They must have a stripe down the back, a cross over the shoulders--both are seen on donkeys--AND they have 3-5 zebra-type stripes on both front forearms.
I'll try to get some shots of these on my horse, "Buster" to show you. The dorsal stripe is pretty obvious, but you have to look harder for the forearm stripes, which may or may not be on the horse you are interested in. =D


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## CBailey04 (Dec 19, 2011)

Here's another one...I know still not very helpful!! Sorry guys


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

WhatEVER he is, I LIKE this horse. _I think_ he looks like a breeding stock paint, with the tri-colors and the white socks on the rear. What would do you with him--trail-ride, barrels? Let us know. =D


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

she looks buck skin. Bucksins and bays can have countershading, which gives the impression of a faint dorsal stripe. If she was a dun she would likely be bay base I would think. The first pic is a buckskin mare I had, the second a bay based dun paint mare. She has a dorsal stripe and leg barring, unlike the first mare.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Corporal said:


> WhatEVER he is, I LIKE this horse. _I think_ he looks like a breeding stock paint, with the tri-colors and the white socks on the rear. What would do you with him--trail-ride, barrels? Let us know. =D


You can't just tell a horse is a solid Paint based on the fact that it has two socks. With those standards, half the horse population would be a solid Paint. This horse is also not "tri-colored". She does not have 3 colors, she has two: her base and white. I vote buckskin at this point, based on the picture provided.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Sorry for double posting, ran out of edit time.



Corporal said:


> This horse definitely has what it known as "black points", which are the black above the knees and hocks.
> I've got a Dun QH and I've learned that "Dun" is a throwback to a prehistoric color pattern. They must have a stripe down the back, a cross over the shoulders--both are seen on donkeys--AND they have 3-5 zebra-type stripes on both front forearms.
> I'll try to get some shots of these on my horse, "Buster" to show you. The dorsal stripe is pretty obvious, but you have to look harder for the forearm stripes, which may or may not be on the horse you are interested in. =D


No, black points are not black above the knee. Black points are caused by the agouti gene which restricts black to the lower legs, mane, tail, nose, and tips of the ears. 

And dun markings consist of a dorsal stripe that looks like it was drawn on by a marker (one that fades out on the edges, not hard edges, is countershading which is unrelated to the dun gene), shoulder barring (not actual stripes, but dark patches on the shoulder) which do not look like the crosses on donkeys, and the number of zebra stripes on the legs is not limited. I have seen some with just a couple and I have seen horses stripes all over their leg.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

Honestly this horse looks like a buckskin. The "dorsal stripe" does not look to be the clear, crisp stripe of the dun gene but rather the fuzzier looking stripe you get with counter shading.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

*Color,* whatever causes it, *NEVER makes a horse better or worse.* _MY comments _were for the OP bc I believe, judging by the photos presented, that THIS horse would be a good buy. I like the straight, front legs, how the head ties into the neck, etc., as well as the horse's demeanor.
The color of a horse has NEVER been the reason that I bought any of the >30 horses I have owned over the years.
_The question was, "Is this horse a Dun?"_ It wasn't, "Use your expertise to Identify the color markings of this horse." 
Thank you, Poseiden, for your *POLITE *response to my post. It makes my day.
pfft


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Corporal - if you can't handle someone posting to correct you on misinformation on colors/color genetics/whatever, maybe you need to step away from the computer for a while. There was nothing rude in what Po said, she was just correcting your misinformation... 

BTW I'm 100% in agreement with what Po said...


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Wow, Corporal, I didn't see anything rude in Po's response. 

I agree that the horse is a buckskin based on the pictures presented. Very pretty horse! (and color)


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## CBailey04 (Dec 19, 2011)

You guys be sweet LOL thanks for the great critique on the colors though! I had no idea abt the how dark the dorsal stripe is makes it a true dun or buckskin with counter shading!!! Thats crazy but I agree she's a buckskin with counter shading and I'm not just saying that because I've always wanted a buckskin.....I may try her out on barrels but she may just be my little fun horse for our local shows 

Corporal: you are so sweet!! Thanks I LIKE her alot too!! And thanks also for the comments on her comformation, I was having a tough time deciding on buying her or not because I didn't want her looks to cloud my decision!! Im a sucker for pretty little horses and ur right again looks don't mean anything!!!!

You all have provided some great knowledge for the memory bank on horse colors!! So THANKS!!!


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

I was under the impression that this thread was regarding the coat color of this particular mare judging by the OP and because it is posted in the Color section. This thread has nothing to do with the conformation of the mare or the user would have posted the thread in the Conformation Critique section. 

I also did not find my posts rude. You posted incorrect information and I corrected it before someone took your word as gospel and relayed those "facts" to others. 

Sorry for the hijack. More pictures of your mare would be helpful in making a for sure decision on her color.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

*Sorry for the hissy fit.*

I was out of place. **Corporal slinks to a corner and sniffles**


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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

Holy misinformed people Batman!

I'm glad you all beat me to the breedstock comment. I also agree that the horse is buckskin. Just because it it has a 'dorsal' doesn't mean it's a dun. And I too agree that you can't tell if it's a breedstock or not just by that picture. It's alright to get things wrong sometimes, happens to me too, that's why we are all on this forum to learn stuff. 

The 'all dorsals are dun' arguments reminds me of all the 'white horses are albino' argument -headdesk-

Beautiful horse none the less!


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## CBailey04 (Dec 19, 2011)

Cat said:


> Honestly this horse looks like a buckskin. The "dorsal stripe" does not look to be the clear, crisp stripe of the dun gene but rather the fuzzier looking stripe you get with counter shading.


The more I have read about the countershading I think she's def a buckskin too


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## CBailey04 (Dec 19, 2011)

Poseidon said:


> More pictures of your mare would be helpful in making a for sure decision on her color.


Thanks, I will take lots when I pick her up on the 15th:wink: Ur knowledge is impressive too how do you know so much about colors? Just by studying them, it seems the longer I am around the more and more I'm picking up!! Especially from this site:lol:


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## CBailey04 (Dec 19, 2011)

Bridgertrot said:


> I'm glad you all beat me to the breedstock comment. I also agree that the horse is buckskin. Just because it it has a 'dorsal' doesn't mean it's a dun. And I too agree that you can't tell if it's a breedstock or not just by that picture. It's alright to get things wrong sometimes, happens to me too, that's why we are all on this forum to learn stuff.
> 
> The 'all dorsals are dun' arguments reminds me of all the 'white horses are albino' argument -headdesk-
> 
> Beautiful horse none the less!


So glad you said this because if you don't do your homework, someone fairly new to the horse world would think that!! Being Myself until this post!! LOL as soon as I read a stripe means Dun that was it for me I thought she was for sure, until more post came up about countershading, I've never heard of that!!! But after all this I think she's a buckskin.

One more question, what does breeding stock mean?? If she was breeding stock would that make her color be called something different? and the white on her back legs would she still be considered buckskin or buckskin paint??? I'm trying not to make this complicated I'm just curious:wink:


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

breeding stock paint is a paint with no "paint" markings, marked like any other solid colored breed. they have to be registered with the american paint horse assosiation. her color stays the same.


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## CBailey04 (Dec 19, 2011)

Poseidon said:


> Sorry for double posting, ran out of edit time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## CBailey04 (Dec 19, 2011)

BlueSpark said:


> breeding stock paint is a paint with no "paint" markings, marked like any other solid colored breed. they have to be registered with the american paint horse assosiation. her color stays the same.


Oh ok, so a paint without white markings....how do people know if its has paint horse genes if there's no sign of it, like a grade horse for instance? i guess you wouldn't really know. 

Thats what this horse is just a grade horse, & from the story I've gotten she's been passed around a little bit and I can't seem to track down any history on her:? She's a great little horse now though she needs a LITTLE more training!!


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

CBailey04 said:


> Thanks, I will take lots when I pick her up on the 15th:wink: Ur knowledge is impressive too how do you know so much about colors? Just by studying them, it seems the longer I am around the more and more I'm picking up!! Especially from this site:lol:


Yep! Just a lot of reading. HORSE COLOR EDUCATIONAL PAGES: Learn about blue roan, grullo, champagne, buckskin, and other colors and Morgan Colors- Your Information Station for Morgan Color Genetics and Color History are very informative sites if you are wanting to learn more. 



CBailey04 said:


> One more thing!!! I'm sorry!! So based on this she does have black points for sure though right? Her lower legs, mane, tail, the tip of her nose, and the tips of ears all have black.


Yes. Bay, buckskin, brown, bay dun, and grulla all have black points.

As for being a solid Paint, like someone said, if she's registered with the American Paint Horse Association, she's a solid Paint. If she's not registered, then she is just a grade horse (that appears to be from Quarter Horse or Paint decent). 

Solid Paints are just Paint-bred horses that either did not inherit a white gene from its parents or express it minimally. The APHA frowns upon these horses and registers them separately. The mare in my avatar is a solid Paint. She is N/O for OLWS, but does not have any significant markings.


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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

Yes she still does have black points (ears, muzzle, legs). Her color isn't called any different than a regular horse. Her identification would simply be a Buckskin Breedstock Paint Mare or I think some people go by Solid Buckskin Paint. I'm not sure what others go by but I consider markings to be regular markings until they start to go above the knee or hock.

My mare I used to own was a breedstock paint. If I recall she was out of two black Overos...I know at least her dam was. Her give away is a white spot on her neck. She does have roaning on her flanks and weird roan spot on her barrel but otherwise you would never know.

White spot on neck:

















To make it simpler...and I'll probably get chewed out for this...but Solid Paints are basically quarter horses. Since techincally paints are quarter horses with color. But they do carry the genes to make more paints. If parents are unknown, you wouldn't really know unless you got the horse tested or if a paint pops out when you breed lol

This is a neat website where you can learn more about counter shading http://www.duncentralstation.com/LookALikeColors.html


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Bridgertrot said:


> To make it simpler...and I'll probably get chewed out for this...but Solid Paints are basically quarter horses. Since techincally paints are quarter horses with color. But they do carry the genes to make more paints. If parents are unknown, you wouldn't really know unless you got the horse tested or if a paint pops out when you breed lol


No, Paints are their own breed. Tobiano does not exist in Quarter Horses. Splash, frame, sabino, and rabicano do, but tobiano does not and never will. Until recently, QHs with an undesirable amount of white were sent over to the APHA for registration, so many Paints are very heavily QH-bred and some are double-registered, but Paints will always be a separate breed. 

And solid Paints can actually carry tobiano, but be very minimally expressed. 

Also, Bridgertrot, doesn't that spot on your mare qualify her for regular APHA papers? I think the white area has to be a minimum of 2 inches by 2 inches.. My mare doesn't qualify for regular because her one little spot is only about 1 square inch.


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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

Poseidon said:


> No, Paints are their own breed. Tobiano does not exist in Quarter Horses. Splash, frame, sabino, and rabicano do, but tobiano does not and never will. Until recently, QHs with an undesirable amount of white were sent over to the APHA for registration, so many Paints are very heavily QH-bred and some are double-registered, but Paints will always be a separate breed.
> 
> And solid Paints can actually carry tobiano, but be very minimally expressed.
> 
> Also, Bridgertrot, doesn't that spot on your mare qualify her for regular APHA papers? I think the white area has to be a minimum of 2 inches by 2 inches.. My mare doesn't qualify for regular because her one little spot is only about 1 square inch.


I know Paints and Quarter Horses are their own breed. I'm just saying what they "basically" are. Told you I'd get yelled at lol Physically they look like QHs but carry the Paint genes.

My mare's spot isn't that big really.









She actually isn't registered. The people who owned her before me, who also bred her, for some reason only filled out half the papers and never registered her. I never got around to doing it either but her papers are still with her.

This is her sire: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/lr+twice+concluded 
Oddly enough it says he's a black QH. But I swear to god her papers said he was a black overo.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

No offense, but it doesn't make much sense to say two breeds are the same when they aren't. Most warmbloods have similarly shaped bodies and I personally can't tell the difference between them if someone showed me pictures of various breeds, but I don't say all warmbloods are the same. Shrug. I am just of the belief of doing things right the first time.


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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

-shrug- I usually only have to explain that to non-horsey people when they get confused between the whole Paint and pinto thing. I'm well aware of the difference. I just dumb it down for them and say Paints are colored QHs. They usually don't care much anyway. haha


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Just out of curiosity... what was the HYPP status of your mare Bridger?


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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

I'm not sure. Back when I owned her I didn't know a whole lot about HYPP. She's clear on her Sire's Sire side but doesn't say on his dam. And I'm not sure whats on her dams side. I'm frustrated cause now I want to test her but I don't own her anymore. I almost feel ashamed of myself for not knowing.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Here are pictures of Buster Brown, who IS a Dun.
Here is his dorsal stripe, and it's not a shadow from fat rolls.


























These are his forearm zebra stripeys.


















This was the best picture I could get (this morning) of his shoulder stripe.


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