# The Seven Games?



## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Hey there, looking for anybody who's tried The Seven Games from Parelli?

I'm not a big fan of Parelli. I like their methods, but I think it's absolutely ridiculous what they charge people. Over $60 for a "carrot stick" and another $20 for "STRING"? I'll never understand.

However, I believe my Paint filly would be an ideal candidate for natural horsemanship. So I'm interested in setting aside my dislike for the Parelli way of business and seeing if it's worth my time to invest in JUST The Seven Games DVD.

Opinions? I know it's sold as a ten disc set, but I just refuse to pitch out that sort of money. Is it worth my time to spend the $60 on just The Seven Games? Or is it kind of pointless unless I have the other DVD's? I'm unsure of what the content is exactly, and if it would benefit me alone.

I've been working with horses my entire life (almost 24 years), so I DO know how to train. I'm interested in better increasing my bond with my Paint filly, as she's extremely unsensitive and actually seems to thrive on pleasing people. I'd like to loosen her up, as force simply doesn't work well with her and neither do "subtle" hints like they did so well when I trained my Arab.

Anyway, any comments?


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## Scoutrider (Jun 4, 2009)

I tried the Seven Games with my horses and didn't get quite the reaction that I thought I would (I switched to Clinton Anderson, and I had much better results with my horses, but I still refuse to buy the name brand stuff. I have his book and I watch/record his TV show, lol), but I've seen other horses trained with Parelli's methods that did really well.

I'd give it a shot (maybe look on eBay or Amazon for a better price, I just Googled it on Parelli's site :shock::shock. If it doesn't work for you, you can always eBay or tack swap it :wink:.

I faked my stick/string for years (a dressage whip with a chunk of baler twine tied to the end...) until I found the same thing as a legit Carrot stick/Handy stick at Equine Affaire for $10. Rods has the same thing for a bit more. Training Whips

Good luck!


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Thanks! Yeah, I tried on Ebay, it's retailing for about the same price. I don't think spending $60 on a DVD is so bad, but buying the whole set? I'd rather buy a new horse! :lol:

I found a webpage that explains the seven games in detail, so I may try that first. I understand the concept of everything, so maybe I'll work with my filly a bit first and see if she'll enjoy that sort of thing. I really think she will, she learns at record speeds and practically begs to be told what to do just so she can earn a good scratch or a treat. 

Thanks for the advice, I'll look into different places for a "carrot stick". I also have a Dressage whip with braided twine on the end, so I'll use that for now.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

I'm a Level 3/4 student of Parelli, so yes, I have done the 7 games lol. I've worked with tons of horses using Parelli, from ordinary horses to problem horses (my horse being a problem horse). The 7 Games are excellent as it teaches respect and trust at the same time. I'm a firm believer in it! The 7 Games DVD is a good one, it gives you the basic nuts and bolts of the Games, however the Level 1 pack goes into intense detail which is priceless, IMO.


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

There seems to be a lot of folks that have a very hight name recognition for Pat Parelli and Clinton Anderson and that is just fine by me ,But they are just two people out of Many,Many trainers.

There are several very well known trainers that have different messages that are just as valid and the techniques are every bit as good or better.

I personally am very happy that so many people gain knowledge from these two people,but they did not invent horse training and have not really been able to transfer their riding skill into the show ring as well as others.

The Seven games is a nice introduction to beginning horse training for a person that is very new to training.
I do feel that the Yo-Yo game is just not a good training technique at all though and when done by beginners,just sends the horses head up in the air.
Too many people read half the book or watch half the tape and just scare horses with their skill level.

Flame suit installed and let er rip!


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## Domino13011 (Aug 10, 2009)

Depends on the horse. When i try the 7 games, my horse doesnt respond. Yours might


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

*zips up flame suit* I will say that ANY horse WILL respond to the 7 Games. You have to know your horse's Horsenality first so that you can use the appropriate strategies for that particular horse. Some horses need you to move on quickly, some need you to take your time and go slow. Pat can take ahold of any horse and have it doing amazing things in a very short amount of time.


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## Domino13011 (Aug 10, 2009)

Its proablly just me. Haha


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

Marecare said:


> The Seven games is a nice introduction to beginning horse training for a person that is very new to training.
> 
> *What about Craig Johnson, David O'Connor, Karen Rohlf, Louis Lucio, and Walter Zettl? They are not new to training, yet they incorporate the 7 Games into their training.*
> 
> ...


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Come work with Diesel then x.x 
I've tried exercises from the seven games and he does them and then stares at me like I am insane. With him, we got more of a bond from Join-Up. Not to say the 7 games don't work, I just didn't have as much success with them as I did other methods.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

I've always wanted to visit Montana lol.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

I have also seen the same thing with the yo yo game. I think the reason that you haven't seen it with your horses or those you work with is because you know what you are doing. Some people just kind of go out there shaking sticks at their horses.

Haha well you have a horse out here to change my mind about the seven games with if you ever do!


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## HorsesHorses08 (Jul 7, 2009)

i have tried the 7 games so Spirthorse not all horses respond..Maybe yours did but mine do not..I like Clinton Anderson but you filly might be the right horse so good luck with the training!!!


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

Spirithorse said:


> Marecare said:
> 
> 
> > The Seven games is a nice introduction to beginning horse training for a person that is very new to training.
> ...


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

Different opinions HorsesHorses08.


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

I have also personally seen people kicked with the "friendly Game",Run over in a chute from the "Squeeze Game",and jumped on by a horse trying to mimic PP jumping over logs on the ground.
I saw a little girl that watched the 7 games video try to stand on her horse as it was laying down on the ground and get launched also.

Monkey see,monkey do!


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

Marecare said:


> I have also personally seen people kicked with the "friendly Game",Run over in a chute from the "Squeeze Game",and jumped on by a horse trying to mimic PP jumping over logs on the ground.
> I saw a little girl that watched the 7 games video try to stand on her horse as it was laying down on the ground and get launched also.
> 
> Monkey see,monkey do!


This isn't a glitch in the program, it's people being stupid. Unfortunately stupidity can't be cured:lol:


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

Another problem that I have with the Yo-Yo game (while we are on the subject) is that it really is not the correct way to teach a proper back up to a horse as the cue or signal is not transferable to the saddle as a rider.

The chances for misuse are very high and even when used with the "Proper gear" puts a whipping action on the side of the horses face and head.
I teaches a horse to back up at the sight of a slinking rope.

It does give a lot of "Entertainment value" to the people at the side of the round pen but has little practical application in horse training.


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## RadHenry09 (Mar 22, 2009)

The seven games have been a godsend for me and my dun gelding . I have done the first 3 games with my paint and intend do more with him and teach my daughter as she rides him mostly.
The horsenality profile has really helped me, I have gotten pretty good at playing with the R brain horse that it has taken me some time to switch gears to our LB introvert who is not motivated very well.
It takes time and patience , and I know I have made mistakes along the way but I am always learning and trying to make our relationship a better one.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

I find it very practical as far as ground work. Just a wiggle of the rope, and the horse backs up. Simple and easy. And you won't always have to wiggle the rope, with my horse all I have to do is square up to him and give him a look and he backs up. At one time I did have to wiggle the rope, but I always started with the look so that eventually all it takes is the look. 

As far as it translating into the saddle, sure, wiggling a rope doesn't do it, however in the Parelli system they have seperate exercises for in the saddle that teach a proper back up.


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## HorsesHorses08 (Jul 7, 2009)

Spirithorse said:


> *zips up flame suit* I will say that ANY horse WILL respond to the 7 Games. You have to know your horse's Horsenality first so that you can use the appropriate strategies for that particular horse. Some horses need you to move on quickly, some need you to take your time and go slow. Pat can take ahold of any horse and have it doing amazing things in a very short amount of time.


Yes Spirthorse but i am just pointing out what you said and i am not trying to start a fight because this is a good thread and i do not want it more closed down but this is what you said above... Not all horses respond and Pat can take my horse but it will not help, i promise you that because he has been to 2 trainers that cannot help me or my horse..Point blank.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

^Sounds like you've given up hope! I think almost all horses can be helped and certainly all riders. 

Spirithorse, maybe you can explain this to me: 
For me, the same basic cues (yielding to pressure) that I use on the ground are used once I get in the saddle. I ground drive and do basic ground work to get a foundation on the horse so when I get in the saddle, everything is not always new. I ask for pressure on the horse in pretty much the same way as I do in the saddle and if he had proper ground training it will make sense to him if I am in the saddle or not. So what is the benefit of having different cues on the ground versus in the saddle?


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## HorsesHorses08 (Jul 7, 2009)

no its not hope iv lost its determaition(sp)?..i am a girl who wants the job done so i do it myself..i have to use a crop and spurs on my boy or i cant get him to do anything.. do not post that i am cruel because that is not if. pls if you have a problem pm me or find a way of contact


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

I don't have a problem or think you are cruel, I am just of the belief of if there is a will there is a way. You've just lost the will.


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## HorsesHorses08 (Jul 7, 2009)

no no no i wasent blaming u i was refering to Spirthorse! im sorry for the confusion


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## Scoutrider (Jun 4, 2009)

There are so many "label" trainers out there, it isn't hard to experiment. Especially since so many have TV shows that (for the most part, I won't give names...) give at least a taste of the method in detail. Every horse is an individual, and different training methods work well for different animals (and handlers!). I applaud the OP for looking into a NH option for working with her horse.

I do notice that when I do the CA equivalent of the Yo-yo game I run into the same kinds of issues already mentioned. But, every horse I've ever tried it with know _really_ well how to back showmanship style, so I've basically assumed that that training is interfering (for lack of a better word) with the Label NH stuff. No prob in my world... he still backs out of my space politely! :wink:


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

HorsesHorses08 said:


> Yes Spirthorse but i am just pointing out what you said and i am not trying to start a fight because this is a good thread and i do not want it more closed down but this is what you said above... Not all horses respond and Pat can take my horse but it will not help, i promise you that because he has been to 2 trainers that cannot help me or my horse..Point blank.


I would assume those 2 trainers didn't do things like Pat does. If Pat took your horse, you would be amazed at what your horse offered him. Point blank. I've had a lesson with Pat himself (just last month at the Celebration) and my horse responded immediately.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

Spastic_Dove said:


> ^Sounds like you've given up hope! I think almost all horses can be helped and certainly all riders.
> 
> Spirithorse, maybe you can explain this to me:
> For me, the same basic cues (yielding to pressure) that I use on the ground are used once I get in the saddle. I ground drive and do basic ground work to get a foundation on the horse so when I get in the saddle, everything is not always new. I ask for pressure on the horse in pretty much the same way as I do in the saddle and if he had proper ground training it will make sense to him if I am in the saddle or not. So what is the benefit of having different cues on the ground versus in the saddle?


I look at it this way. I ride my horse bareback with the halter. Have I practiced backing him by the halter to get softness on the ground? Yes. Have I practiced my yields on the ground to prepare for riding? Yes. However, a simple rope wiggle can come in really handy if a horse gets too pushy or if you get into trouble and need to get your horse away from you NOW. Shake it, send a coil down the rope, whatever, but it gets the horse off of you. Plus, horses respond to not only steady pressure, but rhythmic pressure as well, so the horse needs to be balanced in his response with both ways of asking. The horse should yield to and from steady AND rhythmic pressure.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

HorsesHorses08 said:


> no its not hope iv lost its determaition(sp)?..i am a girl who wants the job done so i do it myself..i have to use a crop and spurs on my boy or i cant get him to do anything.. do not post that i am cruel because that is not if. pls if you have a problem pm me or find a way of contact


Since this was directed at me, I'll just say I was not going to say you were abusive or cruel. I do however think it's a problem when a crop and spurs HAVE to be used. That is a foundation issue and it's only forcing the body. Riding shouldn't be that difficult!:lol:


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

I love the seven games because it gives a person a clear outline to follow to get basic groundwork done with their horses. All of mine, stud colt included, are soft and respectful because of it.

However, if you've read from some of the posts, 'you need to know his 'horsenality!' or you need this carrot stick, or you need this and that. If you just want to buy the DVD, I would say pass. Part of the reason why the 'seven games' works is because of the theory put behind it. Buying just a DVD and then trying to imitate it is what gets people hurt because they're out there with only half of the information (which they do on purpose--because then you have to buy more DVDs and books!). Another problem people have when they just by the seven games is that they play them OVER and OVER again and then there really is no bond, there is just one really bored horse.

Level one--Safety--is not about creating a bond with your horse. It's about laying down lines of communication so that later, you and your horse _can_ bond. If you'd like to do parelli and increase the bond with your horse, I'm afraid the seven games _alone _are not going to help you. If anything, try looking for the Level 1 and Level 2 packs on Ebay. They are cheaper, and much better laid out then the new DVDs they are selling. Save up if you have to; if it's what you want to do it's worth it. There's a lot of information in the kits, hidden behind layers of some advertising and a weird almost cult feeling. Save up and get the proper equipment too at halfcircleranch. It's a website where the woman makes all of the same equipment, made out of the same materials, for half the price. You CAN NOT beat the quality of the rope halters or the lunge lines--I no longer practice parelli but the yatching rope is all I use!

I wish some of the other Parelli fans out there would have informed you of such basic stuff! Don't go throwing your money away, make your decision wisely!


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

What basic stuff were you referring to? The seven games DVD is good for those who only want to do the 7 games. I did mention getting the Level 1 pack. In both things it is discussed how you do not want to play the games over and over and over and over again, because then it becomes the 7 jobs and soon the 7 tortures, and that is not what we want.

The 7 Games do start to help you create a bond with your horse. I've heard so many times from people, "Since starting the 7 games my horse now comes to meet me at the gate." That is a bond. It builds respect along with trust.

Knowing your horse's 'Horsenality' will only help you make progress quicker. Since learning about and studying Horsenalities, I get results so much quicker with my own personal horse or horses that I work with.


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

I had some folks here at our place years ago showing off the Yo-Yo game and trying it on some of the horses.
One of the people was a level 2 at the time working on level 3.
I took a scale that I keep in the tack room and put a rope halter around it and asked her to "Wiggle " the rope like she was with the horse.
The weight scale measured over 20 pounds of impact force from the "wiggle".
Whiplash can amplify as it goes down the rope and winds up smacking the horse in the jaw.

The horses head will ALWAYS go UP for that kind of signal or cue.

I also want to say that I do not think PP does it that way and Spirithorse more than likely does not either,BUT a lot of people do.


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

Actually, marecare, they tell you to smack the metal part of the lead on the horse's face if he's not listening in the level one pack.

And spirithorse, since you felt the need to comment, the basic stuff is what the parelli's say all of the time--level one is about safety and that's it. Since the OP wanted something specifically to increase the bond with her horse, and something that's relatively cheap, I don't think one DVD is going to help her, no matter how glorious you think that DVD is.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

I was simply asking you what you considered basic information. That's it. It IS about safety, however it also starts breaking down the prey/predator barriers between horse and human to start a bond. That is said in the level 1 pack. No need to get snipy.


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

I do want to be as clear as I can here as I am very much about a NH approach to training and staying a stress free and calm as I can with training,
But there is nothing "Natural" about the Yo-Yo game at all.

I feel that some of the other games have value in training and are not as easily misunderstood.


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

I like the yo-yo game marecare, it's actually my favorite one because it's so useful on the ground. However, it is very easily done wrong. It isn't about shaking the rope, it's about shaking your finger.

Shaking a stick at a horse isn't really 'natural' either, if you want to use that approach. The moment people enter the equation, nothing is natural, it's just a really nice buzz word.


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## Scoutrider (Jun 4, 2009)

mayfieldk said:


> The moment people enter the equation, nothing is natural, it's just a really nice buzz word.


*VERY* well said! I wish more people understood that!


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

Natural is less something you do, and more something you are.


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

You can be as natural as you want spirithorse, it doesn't make riding--or anything we do with horses--'natural'.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

LOL, thank you for all the responses!

I think the best thing to keep in mind is that I'm not the type of person to "blindly" follow something. I was hoping to get some good information from the DVD to help strictly with ground work at this point. This filly didn't have a good start, she was worked by total novices who didn't know what they were doing. So it's not that I have to train her for groundwork, it's that I have to REtrain her. I want to get her soft and supple on the ground, listening to me and the halter, and at this point, it feels like I'm doing a LOT more yanking around then I want to.

Without using any trainer or program, I trained my Arab mare to do "loose" work - follow me, turn, back up, whoa, walk or trot without a halter or lead. We also progressed to riding with just a piece of twine around her neck. So I am a VERY adaptive person, I won't just see what I'm being told and obey every word. I know how to read horses extremely well, I've done a lot of work with abused horses. I take all the advice and tips I find, and I incorporate them until I find a program that works for my HORSE.

My Arab mare was trained from birth by me though, so I never had to go through this "improperly" trained junk. Jynx is so eager to learn, but she's confused. I could very well continue as I'm doing, and probably have results, but I was hoping to learn a softer method of asking her using my body (I was able to advance to that point with my Arab mare simply because she was already taught right).

I don't know if that clears anything up, I'd just heard really good things about The Seven Games and understanding the concept of them, they sound like a fantastic idea for Jynx because she's so confused why what she was TAUGHT to do isn't the right thing.


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## Beloved Killer (May 23, 2009)

Scrabble, Monopoly, Buzz, Jenga, Pick Up Sticks, Pin The Tail On The Donkey, Speed Stacking.


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## HorsesHorses08 (Jul 7, 2009)

Ya know Spirthorse im glad it worked for you but i dont really like Parelli so if you dont mind please stop telling me that it works wonders..iv tried it and it did not work on my horse..


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

HorsesHorses08 said:


> Ya know Spirthorse im glad it worked for you but i dont really like Parelli so if you dont mind please stop telling me that it works wonders..iv tried it and it did not work on my horse..


I don't think Parelli will neccesarily work on all horses if you try to follow it by the word. I've heard a lot of people talking about "horseinality" and it's true - every training program is based on a set of guidelines. It's up to us to modify those guidelines to suit the horse. If I followed Parelli word for word, it wouldn't work on my Arab mare either. I had to modify my own program to do a form of "natural" horsemanship with her. I do think with certain adaptations, it WILL work for any horse. There are many many different ways to ask a question - eventually, you'll find one that your horse understands.


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## HorsesHorses08 (Jul 7, 2009)

and i agree i am just sick of people telling me that it works wonders when i have tried it and it just did not work.. my horse is very stubborn so he needs someone onhis back to take the bull by the horns because me and a previous trainer are the only ones he has not thrown because we know how to handle him..i know his quirks and strengths..i dont need a trainer and Parelli to tell me that..but yes i understand what you are saying Macabre.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Spastic_Dove said:


> For me, the same basic cues (yielding to pressure) that I use on the ground are used once I get in the saddle. I ground drive and do basic ground work to get a foundation on the horse so when I get in the saddle, everything is not always new. I ask for pressure on the horse in pretty much the same way as I do in the saddle and if he had proper ground training it will make sense to him if I am in the saddle or not. So what is the benefit of having different cues on the ground versus in the saddle?


 
To me there is no reason to have different aids or cues. Th whole purpose of working the horse on the ground is to incorporate the same aids under saddle.

What is a pushy horse on the ground is a horse running through the ais undersaddle and yes you can't "wiggle" a lead at him undersaddle so to ne it is the "wiggle" that gets tossed out as a viable training cue.

On the ground he will get a special sounding growl from me and he knows he is doing something wrong and backs off knowing he is in trouble (never had to hit him as he simply behaves). That same growl applies when under saddle so the cues ARE consistant.


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## Dumas'_Grrrl (Apr 2, 2008)

The seven games are not going to "change" your horse's basic foundation. ***NOTE*** That is MY opinion of the games being played with an already "established" horse...You can train new tricks but the foundation is already there.

My horse wouldn't have any of the nonsense of the yo-yo game. I could have had a seizure on the end of the lead rope and Dumas would have stood there wondering what the heck was wrong with me. :lol:

Dumas was trained to stay put or follow until told otherwise. That meant, I could do what I wanted with the lead....say juggle it with my hands full of buckets or what ever else we horsey folk end up carrying around with us.

I think it's a better idea to train the horse to respond to YOU not the equipment. 

What I mean by that is, I prefer my horses to give to the pressure of my hands instead of a whip, or lead. When I teach backing up for example, I push my hand on their chest with a steady, calm verbal cue of baaaaaaack WITH the hand on the chest as reinforcement. Eventually, the hand is removed from the equation and all I need is the verbal cue. Sure I'll add a small tug on the halter in a back motion to keep the attention of the horse if needed. This isn't to mean that equipment is bad, but I want the horse to know that I want him to back, not the lead rope wants him to back up.

If you're truely interested in the 7 games I see no need to get the DVD. It's all common sense and we have the responcibility of translating our "wants" into a language that the horse can understand. 

I'd cruize youtube and check out the students doing it right...they're pretty easy to spot...and give it a whirl with your horse...of course SAFTY FIRST.

If the horse seems to like the games (Mine did not! He thought it was an utter waste of his time to re-learn basic ground manners with a stick but that's another story) I'd invest in some hand-me-down DVD's and go from there. A shout out on your local Craigslist wanting to "rent" or "borrow" or "buy" some Parelli DVD's might dig up a set just gathering dust somewhere.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

I agree with Dumas that it's important that the horse reads you and not the equipment. That's why it's so important in the Yo-Yo game (for example), even when teaching, that you start at Phase 1 which is just your energy and your look. That way all it will take eventually to get the horse to back up is a look or you changing your posture.


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## HorsesHorses08 (Jul 7, 2009)

i agree with spyder.. you cannot wiggle a lead at him on back..i do not like parelli for a reason and that is no ones problem but mine.. and if i prefere to use a whip crop or spurs that is my opinion.. i do not need anyone telling me what they prefere because i will do what i prefere and that is that.. my horse wa a trail horse for yrs and then he was abused beaten and starved so i will do what i pls with my boy and i will not do parelli with this horse..point blank will not!!!


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

HorsesHorses08 said:


> i agree with spyder.. you cannot wiggle a lead at him on back..i do not like parelli for a reason and that is no ones problem but mine.. and if i prefere to use a whip crop or spurs that is my opinion.. i do not need anyone telling me what they prefere because i will do what i prefere and that is that.. my horse wa a trail horse for yrs and then he was abused beaten and starved so i will do what i pls with my boy and i will not do parelli with this horse..point blank will not!!!


I don't see that anyone is trying to force you to do anything with your horse. Nobody has told you that you're a bad owner as far as I can tell. They might not agree with your training methods, but you don't agree with theirs.... no biggie as long as animals and people aren't getting hurt. 

I guess my point is that Spirithorse isn't trying (and doesn't have the capability) to force you to say that Parelli is awesome and it works wonders. It seems like she probably (sorry to put words in your mouth Spirithorse) thinks that Parelli (done correctly) would help, but she's entitled to her opinion too.


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## RadHenry09 (Mar 22, 2009)

Dumas'_Grrrl said:


> The seven games are not going to "change" your horse's basic foundation. ***NOTE*** That is MY opinion of the games being played with an already "established" horse...You can train new tricks but the foundation is already there.
> 
> My horse wouldn't have any of the nonsense of the yo-yo game. I could have had a seizure on the end of the lead rope and Dumas would have stood there wondering what the heck was wrong with me. :lol:
> 
> ...


 

Your Horse Matters: is 
a really neat website , that I have gotten videos off of before , it allows you to rent the videos to see if you like them and gives you a can to see if this is something you want to pursue with your horse.
There is a fee but it is low compared to purchasing the dvds or sets outright.
Parelli Horse Training Videos
This link is for the parelli videos however there are many other trainers listed on the website depending on what you have decided to work on whether it be dressage, colt starting etc... 
It may be worth checking into, I actually rented the level one dvds from here sometime ago to see if it was worth it and for Radar it worked really well. When I open his stall and he acts like he wants come out, I just point my finger and shake it and he backs up to give me space...But as stated previously it worked for my horse. 
The website links explain the fees and how to go about renting the dvds too.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

Nope, you're right MN Tigerstripes  Not putting words in my mouth at all.


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## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

I recommend this

Monty Roberts Join Up, Man Who Listens to Horses, Real Horse Whisperer, Books, Biography, Train, Demonstrations, Flag is Up


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## sweetzinnias (Aug 24, 2009)

I found a seven games video tape on ebay for 12$. Kind of a pain because you cant skip through as easily as with a dvd, but a dang good price. Also, I got the his Natural Horse-man-ship book on ebay for like 15$. Its is a good place for me to start without shelling out mega-bucks. Also, theres lots of knock-off halters, sticks, strings and reins out there too for A LOT less.


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## SuperStarsSugar (Sep 9, 2009)

Parelli is actually a bit too rigid to be effective with horses (some horses do better if you put stuff from level three before some things in level two, etc.), plus, I agree that their prices are totally outrageous. Also, I've seen some of their DVDs, and, looking at it from the perspective of someone who has been training with NH for quite a while, it really seemed to trivialize things. Gave you just enough information to get you killed. Parelli has been pop-cultured to death. That said, I am a big supporter of NH in general and I have a few ideas for how to get started on the cheap in the best way possible. First, ignore Pat Parelli, and read "True Horsemanship Through Feel" by Bill Dorrance. Second, the two most important parts of starting out with NH are the rope halter, and the stick. You can pretty much get away without everything else. The rope halter is important because it gives your horse more sensitivity as far as what is happening at your end of the lead rope due to the fact that the material is so much less heavy than a standard halter. If you're hurting for cash, buy some narrow gauge marine rope and tie one yourself, otherwise, visit HorseFriendly.com. As far as sticks go, you can make one of those also, by getting a hold of a fiberglass fishing pole, a golf handle grip, and a piece of leather which you can lash on to the end. Looks almost like the real thing, and works exactly the same. If that sounds too ghetto, you can also just use a regular longe whip, though it's slightly less effective due to it's lack of rigidity. Hope this helps!


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

Too rigid? I don't think so. I've trained horses using Parelli for years and it's worked on every single horse, of all breeds, of all ages, of all disciplines. That's because it's based on horse psychology.


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

"Too rigid? I don't think so. I've trained horses using Parelli for years and it's worked on every single horse, of all breeds, of all ages, of all disciplines. That's because it's based on horse psychology."


And other variants of "natural horsemanship" are not? I have been practicing variations of natural horsemanship (I hate the term, to be honest, as there is nothing natural about riding or anything else we do to horses, but for the sake of brevity it's a convenient label to use) for years and indeed, grew up with it. I've retrained a couple adult horses using it and starting youngsters successfully. That said, I'm reluctant to the follow the cult of any one practitioner, be it Parelli or anyone else, as if their way is the best and only way to train a horse. I prefer to see Parelli, the Dorrances, Monty Roberts, Ray Hunt, and everyone else as more or less following the same paradigm for horse training and understanding horses. Their methods vary slightly but they are more or less promoting the same thing. All these methods are grounded in horse psychology but focus on teaching humans horse language and cultivating knowledge of and empathy with horse psychology. They all encourage understanding *why* your horse is doing something and knowing how to "explain" to him what you want him to do while making the right thing the easiest choice for him. They all discuss how the human can become the strong, confident, but fair leader. I haven't come across a single NH trainer who *doesn't* talk about leadership, or moving the horse's feet and releasing pressure as abolutely key elements of training. All these guys, if they are any good, are more or less on the same page, at least in terms of the paradigm they have of horse psychology and communication. It's more about training the person to communicate with the horse; practices vary with how to do that. 

Maybe in the end it comes down to what works better for the trainer rather than the horse; after all, human beings have their own predilictions. If the structure provided by Parelli's seven games works for you, gives you the tools to deal with almost any horse, then brilliant. Obviously if that is a method that you are comfortable with and knowledgeable about, using it will make you a better horse trainer. Other people might be more inclined towards other NH methods, or better off using an amalgamation of NH practices to suit not only their horse, but themselves. I myself do my best training when I'm not wedded to any particular practitioner's system, but open to trying all sorts of stuff and finding out what suits me, the horse, and the problem at hand.


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

^ ^

One point that I might add to this very good post is that that there are LARGE stylistic differences between several of the NH trainers and some of them are really more about entertainment of the crowd.


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

I should add as a caveat that I have seen very few of these guys "perform" (never have the spare cash to attend a clinic with a Name), but have worked with and learned from quite a few of the local people around where I used to live, who are great trainers but not really known outside of that area. What I know of the theories and practice of more "famous" trainers is limited to books, videos, and of course what the trainers I learned from taught when they said, "This is how (insert name here) does it." 

I like to be pragmatic. If you can train a horse, you can train a horse. So long as the horse understands what you're on about and you have successfully created a willing, happy partnership with it, it doesnae care whether you are a follower of Pat Parelli, Tom Dorrance, Monty Roberts, or the fella from the barn down the road.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

I want to know where I can sign up for Pat Parelli's Marketing Director's clinic...


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## HorsesHorses08 (Jul 7, 2009)

Spirithorse said:


> Too rigid? I don't think so. I've trained horses using Parelli for years and it's worked on every single horse, of all breeds, of all ages, of all disciplines. That's because it's based on horse psychology.


here we go again SpirtHorse, that is your opinion and the others have their opinions also! if they think it is to ridgid then that is THEIR opinion. my horse does not respond to this as i stated before but things dont always come out as planned. you get really into parelli and what you may offend others by dowing their statements and opinions. 


sorry for my argument. iz leavez now!


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

thesilverspear said:


> I haven't come across a single NH trainer who *doesn't* talk about leadership, or moving the horse's feet and releasing pressure as abolutely key elements of training. All these guys, if they are any good, are more or less on the same page, at least in terms of the paradigm they have of horse psychology and communication. It's more about training the person to communicate with the horse; practices vary with how to do that.
> 
> Maybe in the end it comes down to what works better for the trainer rather than the horse; after all, human beings have their own predilictions.


 
Well said and the thing is that none of these qualities are confined to just Natural Horsemanship but to ANY trainer that attempts to teach the horse with understanding.


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