# Guess Wildfire's breed?



## Lucky89 (Nov 21, 2010)

Hey,
I just got my first horse last week. He's a 7 year old gelding named that I named Wildfire.
I'm just wondering about his breed/color. He doesn't have papers, but his former owner says he's an Appaloosa, but I've heard others say that he's not an Appy, but a dapple grey. 
He has a tendancy to look really washed out in pictures. In person, you can see his spots much better, and they are brownish grey. He has blue eyes and a blonde and grey mane and tail. His rump and back legs have alot of grey coloring and spots, as well as a bit of light brown mixed in with the grey. No matter what breed he is, it doesn't matter to me, I'm just curious!


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

He does look more like a dapple grey. He may have Appy breeding, perhaps that's why they mentioned him being an Appy. Hard to tell with his eyes because they are blue not wall-eyed, he doesnt appear to have any mottling either. Are his hooves striped?
Does he have any red flecking starting in his coat?
Gorgeous face btw!


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## Lucky89 (Nov 21, 2010)

No red flecking, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't have stripes on his hooves. 3 of his hooves are light colored (tan), and he has one black hoof (his back right one).
Also, his face has pink skin, and the rest of his body has black skin.


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

Well unless he has Appy breeding, i dont see how he could be one if he has no characteristics. I had a gelding who was a reg. Appy, but he had no spot patters, just a blaze & 4 socks. He did, however, have the mottled skin, wall-eye & striped hooves.


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## Brighteyes (Mar 8, 2009)

Wildfire, like from the song? 


He doesn't look like an appy to me, but that's not to say he doesn't have appy in him somewhere. He may just be a heinz 57 stock horse with a very pretty coat. :wink:


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

He sure is pretty. I don't see anything that screams Appaloosa to me. Love the blue eyes!


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## Icyred (Mar 31, 2009)

Wall-eyes are not characteristics of Appy's just to let you know lilruffian. I think you mean the scelera, which is the white around the eye where as wall-eyes are actually blue eyes. 

As for your horse, I am going to guess a quarter horse or qh cross, perhaps appy which is why the previous owner mentioned that.


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## Lucky89 (Nov 21, 2010)

Brighteyes said:


> Wildfire, like from the song?
> 
> 
> He doesn't look like an appy to me, but that's not to say he doesn't have appy in him somewhere. He may just be a heinz 57 stock horse with a very pretty coat. :wink:


Yes, like the song.  And there's also a tv show called "Wildfire" that's about a horse.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

He looks like a QH cross to me.

Those are dapples, _not_ Appy spots.

Whoever told you he was Appy was either pulling your leg, or that's what they'd been told themselves. 

That horse has no Appy characteristics whatsoever.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Speed Racer said:


> He looks like a QH cross to me.
> 
> Those are dapples, _not_ Appy spots.
> 
> ...


I have to agree with the ever so wise SR!

Stock breed cross of some type that is a fading gray with dapples.


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## Lucky89 (Nov 21, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> He looks like a QH cross to me.
> 
> Those are dapples, _not_ Appy spots.
> 
> ...


Hm. That's odd. I wonder why his former owner said he was an Appy? It wouldn't have changed my decision to buy him, I bought him for his personality...
It's just weird because the former owner is a horse trainer and breeder..you'd think he would know a dapple grey from an Appaloosa...:think:


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Speed Racer said:


> He looks like a QH cross to me.
> 
> Those are dapples, _not_ Appy spots.
> 
> ...



I have to agree with this as well. Being an appy person myself, I really don't see any appy characteristics at all. The horse is a dapple grey, I don't see any LP type spots whatsoever. And I have not seen Appys with blue eyes. No mottled skin, no striped hooves.

Horse looks like a grade QH/Paint to me. I think whoever sold him to you as an appy was incorrect.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Lucky89 said:


> It's just weird because the former owner is a horse trainer and breeder..you'd think he would know a dapple grey from an Appaloosa...:think:


Not saying it is the case with this person just saying; Not all trainers are created equal. Pretty much anyone can say they are a trainer. It does not mean they have a clue, really.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Not saying it is the case with this person just saying; Not all trainers are created equal. Pretty much anyone can say they are a trainer. It does not mean they have a clue, really.


Bravo!


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Not saying it is the case with this person just saying; Not all trainers are created equal. Pretty much anyone can say they are a trainer. It does not mean they have a clue, really.


Exactly.

You asked, and we told you. I see no Appy characteristics in that horse.

He has no Appy markings, and he's built like a QH. Could he be_ part_ Appy? Maybe, but I'm sure not seeing it.


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## Lucky89 (Nov 21, 2010)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Not saying it is the case with this person just saying; Not all trainers are created equal. Pretty much anyone can say they are a trainer. It does not mean they have a clue, really.


I know that he is a good trainer. He's trained all of his horses and he trains other people's horses as well and they are all really well mannered. He works on everything with them from riding, being tacked up and groomed, standing tied, and desensitizing them. 
I've seen him interact with them and work with them, and he's a really good trainer, in my opinion.

I'm just curious as to how he came to the conclusion that Wildfire is an Appy...


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Lucky89 said:


> I'm just curious as to how he came to the conclusion that Wildfire is an Appy...


Why don't you ask him?


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Lucky89 said:


> I'm just curious as to how he came to the conclusion that Wildfire is an Appy...


Why are you so bothered about this? The horse obviously isn't registered, so what difference does it make _what _breeding he has? He's a grade. If you wanted a particular breed, you should have bought a registered animal.

If it doesn't matter to you, then why are you so all fired certain he HAS to be an Appy, because that's what you were told?

He looks like any other grade QH cross to me. That's not a bad thing.


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## Lucky89 (Nov 21, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> Why are you so bothered about this? The horse obviously isn't registered, so what difference does it make _what _breeding he has? He's a grade. If you wanted a particular breed, you should have bought a registered animal.
> 
> If it doesn't matter to you, then why are you so all fired certain he HAS to be an Appy, because that's what you were told?
> 
> He looks like any other grade QH cross to me. That's not a bad thing.


I'm not questioning all of your opinions, I'm just thinking out loud as to how his former owner might have been confused.
It doesn't bother me AT ALL that he isn't an Appaloosa, I'm just a bit bothered by the fact that I was told something that turned out to not be true. 
Before buying him I knew that he wasn't registered and that he was gelded, so obviously I don't want to show or breed him. I just wanted a well trained horse that I can love on and go for trail rides with. 

Again, I'm not arguing that fact that he's not an Appaloosa. I'm simply just trying to figure out what he is so that I don't tell people he's an Appaloosa when he isn't.

Does that make sense?


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## Quixotic (May 22, 2009)

He could quite possibly be half Appy & just didn't inherit the LP gene, or one of his parents was half appy. My old horse was a dappled gray QH/Appy cross, but he had absolutely no Appy characteristics. That could be a reason why his former owner said he was an Appy.
His blue eyes are an indication that he's some sort of pinto as well (I'd say most probably Splash, possibly Frame). He has eyeliner, which can be a trait of both Splash & Sabino. His nose looks pink, and if you look above his eyes in the 2nd pic there is a faint outline where he's a bit darker, so I'm betting he had a big white face before he grayed out.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

He's a dapple gray QH cross. May have some arab in there someone


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## dance21 (Oct 28, 2010)

I don't believe that he has much Appaloosa in him. He looks like a pretty dappled grey in the photos, but from the way that you describe him, he sounds like a he is starting to become a flea-bitten grey. Either way, I think he's beautiful.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I vote QH cross. If you had a good side shot you might be better able to see some Appyness . They often have long backs. QH plus for sure!


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## WildJessie (Oct 15, 2010)

I also vote QH cross, I am not too sure about Appy, having only seen very few. 

He is quite a looker though.


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## Lucky89 (Nov 21, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> I vote QH cross. If you had a good side shot you might be better able to see some Appyness . They often have long backs. QH plus for sure!


Here's some more pics of him.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Looks like a fading dapple gray with flea bit marks to me.


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## 2horses (Oct 11, 2009)

I don't know what breed he is, but he is very cute. I love the blue eyes with eyeliner. He looks so sweet and cuddly in the last picture.


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## WildJessie (Oct 15, 2010)

He looks like such a cuddle bug!!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Lucky, I don't know if anyone has mentioned this to you or if it has been fixed since you took the pictures but in that last picture with him under saddle, the bit is hanging way too low in his mouth. It really should be taken up a hole or two for him to be comfortable.


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## Lucky89 (Nov 21, 2010)

smrobs said:


> Lucky, I don't know if anyone has mentioned this to you or if it has been fixed since you took the pictures but in that last picture with him under saddle, the bit is hanging way too low in his mouth. It really should be taken up a hole or two for him to be comfortable.


Yes, it was fixed. Thank you for pointing it out tho! It was on the tightest hole in that pic so i wound up punching another hole.


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

well DANG appy or not! i'd gladly take him off yours hands. idc if you tried to sell him to me as a percheron/ gypsy cross! lol your still getting the same horse all the same. and by his looks and what seems to be his personality he looks fantastic!


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Not going back to quote, but who ever said appies don't have blue eyes... They most certainly do. My family used to breed/raise appies and we had more then one that had blue eye(s). 

Also just because a horse is long backed doesn't mean it is an appy. I have seen plenty of long backed horses of other breeds that are not appy.

FWIW OP, I don't see or not see appy in him. It is way to easy for grey to erase LP spots. The molting/seclera/striped hooves would still be there is he had those characteristics. Either way, I think you found a great horse regardless of breed and/or color.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

NdAppy said:


> Not going back to quote, but who ever said appies don't have blue eyes... They most certainly do. My family used to breed/raise appies and we had more then one that had blue eye(s).


These blue eyes would not have been caused by LP though.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

I did not say that blue eyes were caused by LP. I was stating that they are appaloosa that _do_ have blue eyes. To say that a horse isn't an appaloosa because of eye color is kind of asinine.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

NdAppy said:


> I did not say that blue eyes were caused by LP. I was stating that they are appaloosa that _do_ have blue eyes. To say that a horse isn't an appaloosa because of eye color is kind of asinine.


I'm not disagreeing with you. Of course appies can have blue eyes. I was just clarifying for the people that don't know, that they are not caused by the LP gene. Not at all implying that you didn't know that, in fact I was sure at the time of posting that you did know that


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Alrighty.

I am pretty sure that in Appies that the blue eyes are caused mostly by splash (not going to say they are _all_ caused by this).


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## Tymer (Dec 28, 2009)

Appys, I have found, can easily vary their coloring. One of the few Appys I knew was 17.2hh, and chestnut through and through. He had a star on his face and that was it. Genetic testing even proved he was PURE Appy. He's a freak of nature.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

I would say so too. There are probably cases of Frame causing it in Appies, being stock bred, but I see splash as being far more common.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Tymer said:


> Appys, I have found, can easily vary their coloring. One of the few Appys I knew was 17.2hh, and chestnut through and through. He had a star on his face and that was it. Genetic testing even proved he was PURE Appy. He's a freak of nature.


No.

Genetic testing proved he carried the LP gene. This does not make him an Appaloosa. Appaloosa is a breed, the spotting is a colour.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

As far as I knew there wasn't a test for LP available yet? *confused*

Tymer - Were you meaning DNA tested, as in checking parentage?


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## Tymer (Dec 28, 2009)

NdAppy said:


> As far as I knew there wasn't a test for LP available yet? *confused*
> 
> Tymer - Were you meaning DNA tested, as in checking parentage?


I'm not sure, the horse's owner just said "We did the tests, he's a pure appy!"

I wasn't sure if this applied to the thread or not, because I'm not the most educated in genetics. But I thought it might, so I decided to add it.


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## smokeyblue910 (Dec 1, 2010)

I don't think he's an Appy. But he might be a QH or I thought I saw a little warmblood. But I don't think he's pure warblood if he is it's not much. I think he's has some QH in him. Is he a mixed breed?


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## Snookeys (Sep 23, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> Why are you so bothered about this? The horse obviously isn't registered, so what difference does it make _what _breeding he has? He's a grade. If you wanted a particular breed, you should have bought a registered animal.
> 
> If it doesn't matter to you, then why are you so all fired certain he HAS to be an Appy, because that's what you were told?


I never saw her get fired up or bothered. She is just curious and is defending the man. Jeez.

He has a white face like an overo paint (you can see the outline of his facial markings)... maybe one warm day you can take a hose to him and try to find any pinto markings. Look for mottling. Is his manly-part mottled? I remember we had a little palomino gelding that was extremely light-colored. He had a wide blaze and looked solid everywhere. We just figured he was a mutt, but when we hosed him down we found spots and mottling on his skin. He was built a lot like your horse, just smaller. He certainly didn't show any "characteristics" of an appy, but he definitely had spots. We still called him a mutt though, haha.


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## WickedNag (Sep 7, 2010)

I see a gray and white paint. Very nice looking boy... enjoy!


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## Missdv (Nov 4, 2010)

I'm not guessing, just wanted to say whatever he is, he's a real cutie and you're lucky, and don't dwell on what he is, just who he is.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Missdv said:


> I'm not guessing, just wanted to say whatever he is, he's a real cutie and you're lucky, and don't dwell on what he is, just who he is.


Very good point!


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## tmyfrnk (Aug 11, 2009)

This is my horse Missy who is a registered appaloosa. She is classified as a non-charactoristic appaloosa. No sclera, no stripped hoves, no mottled skin and not a spot on her but both parents are leopard appys.


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## Snookeys (Sep 23, 2010)

^ Wow. What a presence. She's beautiful.


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## tmyfrnk (Aug 11, 2009)

Thanks  Appaloosas can have brown, blue or hazel eyes. A lot of blue eyes in the Mighty Bright line. You can really see my mares dapples in the summer.


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## tmyfrnk (Aug 11, 2009)

I'd like to add that he is a beautiful horse no matter what breed he is. He very well could be pure appy. There are grey and dapple grey appys and when i first opened your post, the first thing i thought was appaloosa. Good luck to you and Wildfire.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Tmyfrnk - your mare's dapples have nothing to do with her breed. All horses can have dapples in their coat, no matter the breed. And yes, Appies can have those coloured eyes, but it is not related to the appaloosa gene at all, it is a different gene causing it.


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## Quixotic (May 22, 2009)

A horse can have blue eyes because he's carring 1) Splash, 2) Frame, or 3) 2 copies of the creme gene. Hazel eyes are caused by the Champagne gene. Neither are caused by LP. Yes, Appys can have blue or hazel eyes, but it has nothing to do with LP.

tmyfrnk - both of your horse's parents were heterozygous for LP, & your mare did not inherit it. She is Appaloosa only by breed, not by colour.


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## tmyfrnk (Aug 11, 2009)

I know dapples have nothing to do with her breed. The meaning behind my statement is, a full blooded appaloosa can have dapples as my mare does. Appaloosa is a breed not a color/design. Lucy89 was asking what we thought her horses breed is. I was simply stating that a full blooded appy can have blue eyes, dapples, grey etc.


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## Quixotic (May 22, 2009)

LP is the appaloosa (or leopard) pattern gene. A horse does not have to be of the Appaloosa breed to display an appaloosa pattern (POA, Knabstrupper, miniature, Colorado Ranger, etc.)


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Quixotic - Don't for get PATN. PATN is also part of the appaloosa coloring genes. When you have LP and PATN together is when you tend to get more colorful horses.


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## Quixotic (May 22, 2009)

Yep, absolutely! It is, of course, not limited to just the Apps.


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## Eastowest (Mar 26, 2009)

IMO there are basically 2 ways for a horse to be considered an Appaloosa- or appaloosa. 

One way a horse is called an Appaloosa (notice the capital "A") is by its bloodlines and where it is registered-- the original/most common place Appaloosas are registered in the Appaloosa Horse Club. There are specific rules about bloodlines, and one parent has to be "colored"-- "color" is preferred in registered ApHC Appaloosas, but not required. 

There ARE registered Appaloosas that look like your gelding (who IS very cute BTW). But grey/fleabitten/speckled coats are not part of being an Appaloosa-- its just that solids and/or greys with the right pedigree can be registered Appaloosas because of their parentage. 

The other way a horse can be called an appaloosa (notice the lower-case "a") is by being appaloosa-colored/patterned. many people see a leopard or spotted blanket or varnish roaning and automatically call the horse an appaloosa. This is because of their color/pattern, not their bloodlines. 

Unless you can track down info on your gelding's parentage, there is no way of knowing if he could be considered an Appaloosa. If he doesn't have Appaloosa-qualifiable parentage, then he isn't one. He also would not be an appaloosa, as in, a horse called appaloosa because of his color-- because fleabitten or dappled grey is not an appaloosa color or pattern.

This does not mean anything bad about your trainer-- he might have been told the gelding was an appaloosa and was just passing on the info. A good trainer is a good trainer, pretty much regardless of his ideas about breeds or colors. Heck, the best repro vet I can use in my area insisted, for years, on calling one of my obviously characteristic, roaned-to-mostly-white registered Appaloosa mares a grey every year on her Coggins. I couldn't convince him otherwise. All that mean is that his idea of what was a grey was wrong-- meant nothing about his talents as a vet! I sure didn't quit using him or have a changed opinion of him because he called Tabby a grey-- he went to school to be a vet, not a coat color or breed expert. LOL. And he was an awesome vet.


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