# Do horses NEED to be pastured???



## Horse racer (Jun 28, 2012)

So, I'm buying a horse that I've worked with for a while now and she's an awesome horse. Everything I look for in a horse and just amazing. i've developed a great relationship with her and stuff. The deal I have with the guy is that I buy the horse and he'll keep it at his barn and feed it for me in exchange I muck out the stalls. Which is a great deal! But....he doesn't pasture his horses. He doesn't have pasture land but he does have good sized paddocks for each horse and he feeds his horses well and they look well nourished and fine. This horse has never been pastured in the 5 years that they've had it and the horse is 8. So is not pastuing bad? I'm just wondering and maybe a little concerned...


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Well how big are the paddocks? The more space they have to run around and graze now and then is fine.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

If I were you, I wouldn't be thrilled with the option, but I prefer my horse to be out on pasture. However a great many people in parts of the country just don't have access to space like that. As long as the horse has hay all day, and you are exercising enough - then it's ok. 

I think you need some kind of plan though (in writing). What if you have a massive disagreement with the man, can you move your horse?


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Couldn't edit original post..

It all comes down to what quality of life you want your horse to have. IMOP being out in pasture has its pluses and minuses depending on the horse.


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## Horse racer (Jun 28, 2012)

Oh, I'm definitley going to have paper work with the sale and a bill of sale and everything. I'm not too worried about that. I know the guy pretty well and he's a nice guy, but I'll definitley have there be paper work involved and he's fine with that.

Well, the paddocks are big enough to move aroung pretty freely in...I'd say their about 50 feet across and maybe 60 feet long...thats a guesstimate but I'm sure it's close. And she has a horse on each side of her and the paddocks are adjoining so she has contact with other horses all the time. 

She gets exercised everyday by me and she does have constant hay.

I honestly can't tell that her not being pastured effects her at all. I don't see any side effects with it. Although she does get really excited whenever she sees anyone coming with a halter or saddle, which I don't think is a bad thing haha. A horse that loves to work is great!


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Well then, I wouldn't be thrilled with the arrangement, but it seems ok. For me, as a horse owner, I want to be able to control the environment etc. But that's up to you. 

I'd have a contract saying you can move the horse with 30 days notice.


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## Phly (Nov 14, 2012)

Honestly? You asked for opinions, please remember that. 

I think pasture is a must. For our horses anyways, I find stalls and small pens more of an issue. 

Horses in my experience enjoy running and playing, as well as interaction with other horses. Even if its herd evilness, it, in my opinion is healthier for them. 

I do understand that stall and paddock is often used, I would not. 

I also don't care for herds under 3 head so.... Possibly my opinion won't apply unless you can board with other pasture mates and risk the results of that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

My 3 live in a corral that is about 80 x 110, although irregularly shaped. I'm pretty sure Mia has never lived anywhere BUT a corral. Many horses in southern Arizona live in less space.

More space would be nice. However, I don't expect to ever have pasture land for them...

A previous mare (Lilly) with Mia, getting her teeth done while Mia watches:


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

Driving around my new neighborhood, I see horses in horiffically small paddocks, and I sure hope they get some time out.....It freaks me out just a little, but they seem healthy, and it seems like most horses are kept this way around here. 

That being said, I miss the PA pastures, big and full of GRASS.  

I think its probably not "ideal" for a horse to live in a tiny paddock, but as long as you do as other posters said, and make sure she is well fed and given exercise, its doable.


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

Do horses NEED pasture? No. 

If they did, they would not survive in areas that have snow in winter or areas similar to deserts. As long as they get the necessary forage with hay and nutritional requirements, they do just fine without pasture. 

Our horses get hay all year long even though we live in an area that would have great pastures. We just don't have enough land to make pastures. We try to let them out when we can to mow the grass along the driveway but its not enough for them to live on. 

Many facilities are the same way. They just don't have enough land for pastures. They make do with just paddocks. I know some places that don't turn out the stallions that are there. The only time they come out of the stall is to have the stall cleaned or to be worked. Is it best for the horse? No, but they won't die because of it. 

There are disadvantages to having a horse turned out in a pasture. If the pasture is too large, you could have a hard time catching the horse. If the horse is never checked on or brought in, it could sustain a life threatening injury and no one would know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

usandpets said:


> Do horses NEED pasture? No.
> 
> If they did, they would not survive in areas that have snow in winter or areas similar to deserts.


Sorry, but I can't make any sense out of that.

Let's not fool ourselves or rationalize keeping horses in less than ideal conditions. Unless they have special needs, horses should be pastured in a pasture large enough for them to run full-out. It is no secret the incidence of hoof and lung issues is far higher in horses living in confined areas than those living in large pastures.

I realize many people are unable to provide the best of environments, but let's be honest and admit that anything less than ideal is exactly that, and we try to do the best we can in whatever circumstances we are in.

I have found it rather ironic over the years that many of the same people that bemoan the confinement of animals in zoos to small areas rationalize confining their own horses to stalls or small paddocks...


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

They don't need pasture to survive. Much like, if you locked a human in a 10x10 foot room they'd survive too, given they have food and water. In a lot of places of the world people do keep their horses stabled all or most of the time. Many of those horses are fine, and many owners make a huge effort to make sure their horse is exercised and comfortable. 

However, I wouldn't keep my horse anywhere that she wouldn't be turned out in a reasonably sized area at least around 8 hours a day. It'd be great if there was grass there, but if she just had hay to keep her occupied all day I'd be okay with that. To me, the minimum size turn out would be 1 acre, which is about 200x200 feet. Short term I'd be fine smaller, but long term that is the only option I'd do. If that wasn't available where I lived I'd send her somewhere under full care with turn out until I could organise something. Right now my horse is sharing a 10 acre paddock with 3 other horses. She seems pretty happy, and often they all gallop across it full pelt, bucking, sliding to stops etc. It makes me really happy knowing she has the space to run and be a horse. When she came to me from the sales, she would have come from a racehorse trainer where she would have been stabled almost all the time. She'd had a poor appetite, lay down multiple times around feeding etc. Now, returning to a more "natural" lifestyle and diet she has improved mentally and physically.

I can't tell you what's right for you, but that boarding situation wouldn't be right for me.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Faceman said:


> Sorry, but I can't make any sense out of that.
> 
> Let's not fool ourselves or rationalize keeping horses in less than ideal conditions. Unless they have special needs, horses should be pastured in a pasture large enough for them to run full-out. It is no secret the incidence of hoof and lung issues is far higher in horses living in confined areas than those living in large pastures...


Odd. My horses supposedly have great hooves. The farrier last week told me it was like trimming granite. No lung issues that I've noticed. There would be no horses in southern Arizona - well, almost none - if horses needed pastures to run in.

If you keep your horse in knee-deep poop, or a small marsh...that is another story. But I can go thru a stable that has 20x20 stalls and less, and see healthy looking horses complete with muscles and decent feet, waiting to be ridden.

The question wasn't, "What is an ideal situation?", but 'what is needed?' - and they do not NEED a large pasture with room to run free and large social groups to act like healthy, content horses.

I'm pretty well convinced that people function best if they live on 160+ acres and do manual labor much of each day. I have two acres & go jogging & riding. But lots of folks live in Hong Kong without contemplating suicide...


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## MissingStar (Feb 20, 2013)

We have green pastureland as far as the eye can see. Unfortunately, it's dairy country, turning the horses out on grass that has been cultivated for milk cows would be an absolute no-no. 

The horses are kept on much smaller, "starvation" paddocks which, apart from ensuring they are free of droppings and undesirable weeds, we do nothing with. We supplement with hay when necessary.

Whilst there is enough space for them to canter about to a degree, the paddocks aren't a sufficient size to allow them to really stretch out for a good gallop. 

We got around this situation by utilizing the long "cow tracks" between the pastures and added a circuit around the outside of the buildings. I have had to put "Please keep gate closed - free range horses" signs around the place, just to remind folks that the horses could be just about anywhere! 

The place now resembles an improvised Paradise Paddock design. The horses keep moving and that's so important when you remember that in the wild they would cover 20 miles or more a day just looking for food and water.

I would like to think that we all do the best we can for our horses given our individual circumstances. We will be moving early next year, as soon as the farm is split up and sold by the owners. I am already worrying more about what facilities will be available for the horses, wherever we may end up, rather than securing a roof over our own heads - my priorities are so askew, I know :wink:.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

bsms said:


> Odd. My horses supposedly have great hooves. The farrier last week told me it was like trimming granite. No lung issues that I've noticed. There would be no horses in southern Arizona - well, almost none - if horses needed pastures to run in.
> 
> If you keep your horse in knee-deep poop, or a small marsh...that is another story. But I can go thru a stable that has 20x20 stalls and less, and see healthy looking horses complete with muscles and decent feet, waiting to be ridden.
> 
> ...


Stalling a horse or keeping one in a small paddock does not guarantee they will have bad hooves - and no one said it does. I have smoked for 45 years and have neither lung cancer nor a bad heart. The fact remains, and it is a fact, that confined horses have a higher incidence of hoof issues, lung issues, and cribbing, weaving, and other emotional issues, just as smokers have a higher incidence of heart disease and lung cancer. I risk compromising my health by smoking, and if you confine a horse, you risk compromising its health as well. 

The OP's question was "Do horses need to be pastured"? No, they don't...theoretically you could keep one in a 2 X 6 chute, and as long as they are fed and watered they would likely survive. However, the very nature of the question indicates the OP is a novice, and should receive the best possible advice, which is...anything less than 24/7 turnout in a large area compromises the environment a horse's anatomy and physiology mental state,and instincts are designed for - excepting those cases where a horse has issues that dictate confinement or circumstances to protect a horse, such as from severe weather, dictate confinement.

Most horses are fairly adaptable and will adjust to and accept confinement, but confinement is for the convenience of man and the circumstances of the owner - it is NOT in the best interest of their health. 

A horse can live strictly on grain - but its digestive system is not designed for that diet, which most of us know, so we pasture and/or hay them.

A horse can survive without vaccinations or hoof trimming or deworming - at least for a period of time, which most of us know so we act accordingly.

Those who think it is OK to confine a horse are merely rationalizing to justify their inability to provide an adequate environment. I am not criticizing those people - not everyone can provide an adequate environment, and people have a right to do as they choose. But let's call a spade a spade here, and not give a beginner the idea that confinement of a horse - or any animal - is in any way desirable...confinement introduces potential physical and mental health risks, and that is just a fact of life...


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Horse should be fine. But do get papers on everything and make sure too that you have it spelled out just how much work you are to do for this arrangement.

Not much fun to be doing 200 dollars worth of work when it would only take 5 to pay for your board in other words.


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## Cynical25 (Mar 7, 2013)

To answer the title question, No. With appropriate feed & exercise, horses can thrive without pasture.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

I do not believe in stalling a horse.
My horses do not have episodes of colic, heaves, coughing, or any hoof issues.
Granted I have more than enough land to keep them on pasture.
If you must keep them in a small enclosure they must be excersized everyday.
Keeping them in a paddock is better than a stall.
If the horse is healthy sound and in good condition it sounds like an acceptable place to keep a horse. Shalom


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## sheenanaginz (Jun 21, 2013)

I would want my horse to have a pasture. Even if its not huge, at least something. Then again think of the police horses in NY city. They are in good health and don't get to graze in fields every day. Maybe if you are serious about riding plenty during the week or at least letting you're horse get out and run around and roll in the arena. Personally, for me, pasture time is a must.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Faceman said:


> Stalling a horse or keeping one in a small paddock does not guarantee they will have bad hooves - and no one said it does. I have smoked for 45 years and have neither lung cancer nor a bad heart. The fact remains, and it is a fact, that confined horses have a higher incidence of hoof issues, lung issues, and cribbing, weaving, and other emotional issues, just as smokers have a higher incidence of heart disease and lung cancer. I risk compromising my health by smoking, and if you confine a horse, you risk compromising its health as well...
> 
> ...anything less than 24/7 turnout in a large area compromises the environment a horse's anatomy and physiology mental state,and instincts are designed for...
> 
> ...Most horses are fairly adaptable and will adjust to and accept confinement, but confinement is for the convenience of man and the circumstances of the owner - it is NOT in the best interest of their health...


And what about humans? We evolved to cover many miles every day, and to do manual labor. In the movie 'Tombstone', there is a scene where Wyatt Earp sends his brother off at the train station. That happened. And then, since he didn't have money to spend on a ride, he WALKED back to Tombstone...got a lift in a wagon about 10 miles out of Tombstone. It is 70 miles from downtown Tucson to Tombstone, with plenty of hills.

How many modern men would even consider walking 70 miles non-stop? How many of us walk thru 20 miles of terrain looking for tonight's dinner? THAT is "natural" for a human, but has nothing to do with modern life.

There are health problems that result, and we are physically weaker than our roaming ancestors (including those just 100 years ago). Most of us do not live on farms or ranches. I don't walk the 5 miles to church, or to get milk from the nearest store. So I have a bit of a gut. So modern life may impact my health, although I'll live longer than many people in the 1800s.

Hoof problems don't come from living in a corral. They come from neglect - living in a place with bad ground, too much water or too much poop. My horses don't crib, weave, or show any signs of emotional stress other than Mia having energy to spare when we start riding.

Personally, I'd love to have 10 sq miles or more to roam and play in too, but most humans and horses don't get that ideal. What we might like, and might be 'ideal' varies greatly from what we need. Faceman, I know too many horses (including mine) who are acting normal and are physically fit without having pastures to race around in. And THAT is a fact that contradicts your "fact of life"...:shock:

As does the OP's description: "_he does have good sized paddocks for each horse and he feeds his horses well and they look well nourished and fine_".


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

I have 3 horses and 3 exceptionally large paddocks (large enough to never run out of grass). I stall my horses every night, I don't want them to have to deal with the elements or potential threats like the coyotes in the neighborhood, or the teenagers. 
Before I got my mare she was on pasture 24/7 - she was MORBIDLY obese, with no grain or hay supplemented, she had large fat rolls and dangerously close to founder. She is seriously allergic to bugs, when I got her she had rubbed her face, neck, mane and belly completely bald and scabbed, raw and oozing. 
If I were to force her to stay outside all day every day she would be _miserable_. After a few hours outside foraging around and playing a bit, she's at her gate nickering and pawing, desperately ready to come in. I ride her and exercise her, and soak her in fly spray and keep a fly sheet on her. But she is _not _happy outside. Putting a horse like this on pasture would be a death sentence.

My Belgian has a docked tail and can't keep the bugs off him. After several hours in his field he's very ready to come in. I'm not going to ignore my horse who's desperately trying to get my attention just because I have some ideal in my mind that horses should live outside.
This blanket statement that horses need to live on pasture is silly. I have 3 horses who would beg to differ. 
My third horse has the indoor/outdoor stall, I leave his door open all day and let him choose. When I get home, all his waste is in his stall and so is he. He doesn't go out, despite the grass.

My horses get free choice hay (except my fat mare, she's on a strict diet) and the feed they need and of course free choice water. They are exercised regularly and groomed and cared for. They have their feet done (all have exceptional feet). They have the vet requirements met. They are good, happy horses. Pasture is not the end all be all for horses- in fact for some it's detrimental.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I think that, with adequate exercise, your horse should be fine. Are there no turnouts you can use at all?


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## Flipper (Jul 25, 2012)

I don't think anyone can actually answer the question 'do horses NEED pasture'. Each horse's preferences will be different, as humans are, and since we can't ask a horse, only guess subjectively what their behaviour is trying to tell us, we will never no! 

However, what we can see is the health implications of long term stabling, so whilst the horse may like it, it is not necessarily in their best interest. You also have to remember that if someone has always lived in a little house they are not going to be constantly depressed, like humans horses adjust to stabled life but that does not mean they wouldn't be happier in a large field, nor does it mean those in a field wouldn't be happier in a stable, they get used to what they are given! 


Finally, one of the big issues I see is people often have horses that are bred for different climates or a different lifestyle, therefore a pasture full of grass will be 'detrimental' for a Icelandic pony but a pasture full of snow will be 'detrimental' to a thoroughbred. That is not to say the 'pasture' is to fault and they should be stabled, but we have failed to replicate their natural lifestyle- which is often the point of pastures! (obviously we cant change climate though!) 


So in conclusion (necessary after the monologue I wrote!), your horse will be fine how he/she is, they appear healthy and have grown accustomed to their lifestyle, but that is not to say they would or wouldn't be better off in a pasture, you won't no till you try!


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

Faceman said:


> Sorry, but I can't make any sense out of that.
> 
> Let's not fool ourselves or rationalize keeping horses in less than ideal conditions...


We have 6 months of snow, or more. Even if we did have pastures for them, they would not survive on just pasture because the grass stops growing in the winter. Same with dry areas like Arizona. My parents live there and there is hardly any grass. Horses do survive because they are given hay. 

I'm not rationalizing anything. I'm stating facts. The OP said that the horses do get turned our into paddocks and are fed. 

Is it ideal for horses to be out in pasture? Yes, but that wasn't the question. It wasn't if it would be better for them to be on pasture either. It was if it was ok for what they did have. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

I'd be more concerned about the stall cleaning agreement. How many days, what days, what about sick days or vacations, things like that?
Sometimes if you figure out how much board is per day & compare it to how long cleaning takes you'll find you're working for a really crummy wage. Oh, & you'd be surprised how quick cleaning can turn into other chores too.
If you like the guy & the place you may want to be paid real money whenever you work. That seems to keep the peace better as many times one party or the other starts to feel they are getting the shaft.

Congratulations on getting your horse.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

My personal preference: My horses are on pasture. Period. They will never live in a stall or paddock. It believe it is much healthier for them to graze 24/7 like their bodies were intended for, and to get natural circulation in the hoof as they graze. Yes, they will still need extra food and water (especially in the winter or in times of drought). And if they have any issues (like founder) they will need special rotation on the pasture. 

Sure, I realize not everyone is so lucky to have pasture. And that some people show at the big time and need their horses pristine. But my guys will always get pasture. It's always going to be the healthier option (minus any health issues, as I mentioned above.)



usandpets said:


> We have 6 months of snow, or more. Even if we did have pastures for them, they would not survive on just pasture because the grass stops growing in the winter.


So just devil's advocate here because I'm feeling like it:
How did the wild herds of Nokota horses survive in the Badlands before the Medora park board started feeding them hay in the winter, if horses cannot survive on pasture alone in the snow? The horses were there _long_ before the park fenced them in.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

^^ Ever seen how skinny deer get after a long winter? Horses might survive the winter, with some losses - just as some deer survive, and others die. But most of us would like our horses to have a high probability of surviving winter.

Horses could survive in pockets of the Sonoran desert, but they sure would not thrive.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

In the UK the Household cavalry horses and Police Horses spend the bulk of their working lives in stalls. Same with racehorses, competition and hunting horses too in the season
The difference between these horses on a properly managed regime is that they get a lot of attention and a lot of exercise plus going to shows or hunting so they get a lot more stimulation and work than a horse that's maybe spending all but for an hour every day on a very small space - and that's when the bad habits start to crop up
I totally understand that its not possible for all owners to be able to have a large pasture for turnout but a horse needs exercise for healthy muscle, joint, blood circulation, lung function and feet so if you aren't able to provide that by way of a large enough area for it to move around freely then you have to provide it in other ways that take up more time and effort on the owners part
My own horses do have enough room to gallop around but they also spend time stabled. If I look outside at them now they are all standing under trees or grazing one small area.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

bsms said:


> ^^ Ever seen how skinny deer get after a long winter? Horses might survive the winter, with some losses - just as some deer survive, and others die. But most of us would like our horses to have a high probability of surviving winter.
> 
> Horses could survive in pockets of the Sonoran desert, but they sure would not thrive.


You misinterpreted my point bsms. 

I'm not suggesting horses should be left to starve on their pasture in the winter, without any hay from their owners. 

Just saying that they _could _survive on pasture alone in the winter, and they have.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"_How did the wild herds of Nokota horses survive in the Badlands before the Medora park board started feeding them hay in the winter, if horses cannot survive on pasture alone in the snow?_"

I suspect a wild horse herd, like a wild herd of deer, won't all survive the winter. Or they will survive, but be skin and bones. That was why usandpets wrote "_they would not survive on just pasture because the grass stops growing in the winter_". Some would survive, maybe most, but they would not survive the winter in the way most would want.

With water, a horse could survive here in the Sonoran desert, but it might be at a ratio of 2 sq miles per horse. I don't know how much pasture it would take in the Dakotas, but a winter of scrapping away snow & eating anything they could find would be hard on the horse, as it is for a feral horse.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

bsms said:


> And what about humans? We evolved to cover many miles every day, and to do manual labor. In the movie 'Tombstone', there is a scene where Wyatt Earp sends his brother off at the train station. That happened. And then, since he didn't have money to spend on a ride, he WALKED back to Tombstone...got a lift in a wagon about 10 miles out of Tombstone. It is 70 miles from downtown Tucson to Tombstone, with plenty of hills.
> 
> How many modern men would even consider walking 70 miles non-stop? How many of us walk thru 20 miles of terrain looking for tonight's dinner? THAT is "natural" for a human, but has nothing to do with modern life.
> 
> There are health problems that result, and we are physically weaker than our roaming ancestors (including those just 100 years ago). Most of us do not live on farms or ranches. I don't walk the 5 miles to church, or to get milk from the nearest store. So I have a bit of a gut. So modern life may impact my health, although I'll live longer than many people in the 1800s.


I'm not sure I understand your point - it seems to me you are just validating what I have been saying. Humans have survived transitioning to a sedentary lifestyle - just as horses can transition to confinement. But at what cost? Diabetes, heart and arterial disease, and obesity are off the charts. Sure we live longer due to medical advances and a far higher birth survival rate, but we are soft, weak, and far less healthy a species than when we were living under more natural conditions.

Specific examples are meaningless. Whether this horse or that horse or my horse or your horse was this or that is irrelevant. You don't hear me saying I have bred and owned horses - and lots of them - for over 50 years without a single health or behavior issue. Why? Because my horses and experience are statistically not a blip on the radar.

Some horses with the best of care develop issues - just as some horses with the worst of care manage to get by. I doubt anyone can argue that, because we have all seen specific examples of each. The same can be said of people or of other animals. But the best odds - by any measure - are to keep a horse in as close to a natural environment as possible, and then add those things we can do such as deworming, vaccinating, and insuring a balanced diet, to improve on mother nature. Personally, I would not own a horse if I had to stall it or keep it in a small paddock, and when I was breeding, I NEVER sold a horse to anyone without (in my view) adequate facilities - and believe me, I turned down a lot of sales because of it. But that is just my personal opinion. As I said earlier, people are free to do what they like...


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

beau159 said:


> So just devil's advocate here because I'm feeling like it:
> How did the wild herds of Nokota horses survive in the Badlands before the Medora park board started feeding them hay in the winter, if horses cannot survive on pasture alone in the snow? The horses were there _long_ before the park fenced them in.


Either they dug through the snow and ate what they could find or they migrated and returned in the spring. 

Grass in the wild is not the same as in a pasture that we would provide. In the wild, grass gets long. We mow pastures to maintain them (depending on how big your pasture is).

I would love to have enough land to have enough pasture for our horses. They do have enough room to run around and frolic but not enough that grass will grow. It would be cheaper in the long run and we wouldn't have to buy hay. That's just not possible in our situation.

What we do have would probably be enough for two horses. But there's a saying that fits, "Horses are like potato chips. You can't have just one (or two!)".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

A pasture doesn't guarantee good quality food, nor is there a guarantee that it's been picked up and won't infest your horse with parasites from the other horses. It's interesting to me that Clinton Anderson buys his forage from a hay business in Idaho that grows, processess and bags the hay according to the specs of the client.
Right now my pastures grew back a LOT of clover from last year's drought. I have bought at least 1/2 of next winter's hay (which I start feeding around Halloween) from a cutting that had gone to seed. This is how my original herd seeded their pastures bc the biggest one was a harvested corn field when we moved in in October, 1999, and the grass hay would shed seeds. They starting taking the very next year.
My 3 are between 5-6 on the Apgar scale and they are eating no hay right now, just on pasture.
It's great when it's good and it's nice and convenient to have pasture, but it is not at ALL necessary.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Faceman said:


> I'm not sure I understand your point - it seems to me you are just validating what I have been saying. Humans have survived transitioning to a sedentary lifestyle - just as horses can transition to confinement. But at what cost? Diabetes, heart and arterial disease, and obesity are off the charts. Sure we live longer due to medical advances and a far higher birth survival rate, but we are soft, weak, and far less healthy a species than when we were living under more natural conditions...


Diabetes, heart and arterial disease, and obesity, are off the charts because of how we eat, combined with a sedentary lifestyle. That, and we now live long enough for our hearts to suffer.

If I fed my horses grain & sweets and didn't give them exercise, they would get fat too.

But until I was hurt 4 1/2 years ago (thanks, Mia), I was running 4-5 miles daily. It took about 45 min/day, and in return I could do a 6 minute mile at 50. I was able to start up running again in March, and while it is tougher to start at 55 than 15, I'm slowly getting back in shape. And that is all it takes to keep my heart in shape.

Horses, from everything I've seen, are even easier to keep in shape. If you feed them too much, leave them in a 12x30 stall and let the muck build up, you'll have a true "American" horse, with weight problems and heart problems. Hoof problems too. Keep the corrals clean, monitor their feed & ride them 4 times/week, and they'll do fine.

Heck, my DOGS are doing fine, and they aren't running 25 miles a day like a wolf would. This 'gotta be natural' stuff drives me up a wall. Nike has ruined my favorite running shoe because of a current fad for a 'minimal shoe' - ie, one that doesn't protect your feet and joints. So they cut back on the cushioning and support so some eco-turd can feel closer to nature, and my 55 year old knees were hurting in 2 weeks. When I'm running in the desert, the last thing I want is to feel like I'm barefoot...

The problem with your claim of needing pasture is the large number of fit, sane, relaxed, content horses without it. I don't know of ANY non-pasture living horses who have related behavioral problems or health problems if they are fed properly and ridden regularly. I don't think the problem is pasture/no pasture, but involved/uninvolved owners.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

I don't think the OP's situation is ideal, but if the horse has been there for five I don't see an issue. I would feel bad about taking horse from where it had plenty of pasture to where it didn't, but if the horse is used to small paddocks then it's used to small paddocks.


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## Horse racer (Jun 28, 2012)

It's not just for board mucking out the stalls pays for, it's also paying for the her food. So the deal is that he will provide board and all the feed and I muck out the stalls for that, which I thought was pretty fair.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

bsms said:


> I don't know of ANY non-pasture living horses who have related behavioral problems or health problems if they are fed properly and ridden regularly. I don't think the problem is pasture/no pasture, but involved/uninvolved owners.


Well, I know of tons of horses with hoof issues, cribbing issues, COPD, nervous behavior, and so on and so on from over confinement. If you don't, your circle of horse acquaintances is either very small or limited to those who take excellent care of their horses. Perhaps living in Arkansas and Missouri I am exposed to more horse owners that aren't as savvy as the average Horse Forum person.

There is no question we can go a long way toward lessening the affects of confinement. Regular and long exercise - including actually running all out, extremely well ventilated stalls to lessen ammonia fumes and keep a constant supply of fresh air, regular hoof picking and trimming, a dry surface, proper feed methods in stalls and paddocks to eliminate sand colic and sinus issues, supplementation with minerals and clay that are missing from being off pasture, and so on. But remember that those are efforts we make to lessen the affects of confinement...the fact that we have to make those efforts in itself defines the issue. And while you and others may be savvy and responsible and have enough time to do those things, there are many that either only do them intermittently or not at all - I have seen it all my life...and not only the country hillbilly that doesn't know any better. There are neglected horses and horses being cared for irresponsibly in many of the very best of stables. And as we all know, there are horses on huge pastures that aren't cared for very well either - there are no absolutes.

Like I said earlier, if you take care of a horse well enough you could probably confine them in a chute and they would survive. But I am far more content seeing them being a horse doing what horses are born to do...


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

If this horse has been kept in that situation for 8 years, and no bad behaviors have popped up yet as a result, I see no reason to change it. We humans love to imprint our feelings onto other creatures, but if this is what this horse is used to, and it's otherwise happy, why mess with it? I work in New York City and wonder how the people who live there can stand those tiny apartments with no yards to play in, yet they seem perfectly happy because it's what they are used to. That's my 2 cents.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

MyBoyPuck said:


> If this horse has been kept in that situation for 8 years, and no bad behaviors have popped up yet as a result, I see no reason to change it. We humans love to imprint our feelings onto other creatures, but if this is what this horse is used to, and it's otherwise happy, why mess with it? I work in New York City and wonder how the people who live there can stand those tiny apartments with no yards to play in, yet they seem perfectly happy because it's what they are used to. That's my 2 cents.


 You have it hit it perfectly
Horses bred for top competition or racing are born in stables, handled from the minute they're born, most of them are never turned out with another horse because its too big a risk to them. Its all they know and actually taking them away from this can be really traumatic.
Thats not saying they cant adapt to a different life but these horses have no clue how to cope without humans or deal with the elements and insect life
I have two that lived like that and after an hour of being out they are usually standing by the gate pestering to come back in to what they see as normality


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I do hate the wild horses argument, those horses took care of themselves, if one wasn't going to make it, then it died young. 
Is that what we want for our horses? I'd think not. 

My horse is a TB, and so not bred for his feet. But of course wild horses can live without shoes and self trim. Yea, my horse would have no hoof left.


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## Horse racer (Jun 28, 2012)

This horse actually has great hooves, which is important to me in a horse. She is only shod for trail riding but she doesn't have to be shod in the winter because she's only ridden in the arena which has a really great substrate, which is the same substrate used at our local rodeo grounds.


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

This has been an interesting debate. What I find rather amusing, though, is comparing our horses to wild ones. I mean, really? When was the last time you saw a wild horse strolling around the barn yard with a predator on his back?! We have been breeding horses to live with humans for many, many years. 

Of course, some really strong instincts are still within them. We have definitely changed them, though. Even if you give your horse plenty of pasture, you usually still need to trim their feet. Wild horses don't stand around in lush green grass 24/7. They run into rocky hard situations. There are times they do without. Most people, even those with lots of pasture cannot recreate a horse in the wild situation. We don't have to. We have been breeding them to adapt to living with humans. 

The most important thing is that you provide your horse with plenty of fresh water, shelter in bad weather, food...and that is whatever keeps your horse healthy and something to graze on....which can be hay or grass, exercise, hoof and vet care when necessary. I do think a buddy of some kind is important, too. That is a heck of a lot more than a horse in the wild is guaranteed. 

My horses are well taken care of and happy. There is never a winter where they don't have. That is more than you can say for a wild horse. Heck, I have a horse that is 29 years old. She has only been retired a few months. She would have not made it to near this age in the wild.


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

bsms said:


> I don't know of ANY non-pasture living horses who have related behavioral problems or health problems if they are fed properly and ridden regularly.



The world is a big place. If you haven't seen stalled performance horses with stereotypies, then you know not of what you speak.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

I also have to laugh at the wild horse argument. Wild horses DIE in the wild. Not all of them, but many, they're killed by predators, they starve in the winter and they freeze to death in the winter and dehydrate in the summer.
Modern horses are bred down - they aren't all hardy little wild horses. 
At our rescue we have a Cushing's Shetland pony who's pretty badly foundered. You'd kill her to put her on pasture - in fact, come spring we have to put her in our small dry lot paddocks. Our minis would explode if we let them out to pasture! Our TB's would freeze to death in the winter without their blankets and stalls to protect them from the wind and snow. Our wooly ponies would seriously overheat in the summer if we didn't clip them. What about our old less-than-sound horses? Having to walk great distances to reach their food and water could be really disastrous. We have an older Arabian with a ruptured tendon, it has healed but is very delicate - if we turned her out in a pasture to run and play she'd ruin herself. 
Not all horses can just be turned out and actually make it.

I don't think anyone on here is suggesting any horse should be locked in a stall and left there 24/7 except for to be ridden an hour a day. The question is, should they have a massive turn out with grass available 24/7 or are substitutes alright.
I work at a farm that is over the line for me, their horses are stalled (in stalls too small), and either ridden or turned out in small paddocks alone for only 1 hour a day. They only have 3 paddocks for 30+ horses, so they need to be rotated all day. This situation does cause issues and many stable vices and some seriously pent up horses.
But I don't think anyone here is saying that type of situation is ok. I think most people are just saying it's ok for them to have a stall to retreat to when the weather is something their body can't handle. I think most people are saying, so long as they have adequate turn out space and time, and a lack of grass is substituted with good quality hay, some good buddies with them or over a fence where they can play, and some good quality exercise. That's just fine. Our job is to provide what our horses need - and pasture isn't always what they need - in fact often it can be dangerous.

Blanket Statements Don't Work.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Sahara said:


> The world is a big place. If you haven't seen stalled performance horses with stereotypies, then you know not of what you speak.


Yes, I'm sure I could find stalled horses with problems. I'm sure I could find pastured horses with problems. It isn't the corral or pasture causing the problem, but neglect and not caring.

My horses have good feet - but their corral is dry, very firm, even rocky in places. If I let the poop build up 12" deep or put my corral in a marsh (not likely around here), then their feet would suck. And I've seen 'pastures' that were more swamp than pasture...

I've seen too long hooves in horses in corrals and pastures. Neither setting makes the hooves bad, but a lack of trimming.

Maybe I am lucky. Around where I live, within a few miles, all of the horses I've seen live in corrals. They also have good feet, are not fat, have muscles and are showing no easily visible signs of problems. None of the people I associate with are having any health problems caused by corrals. One has allergies, and one apparently was purchased with a so-so leg. That is it. I've had 5 horses living on my property for at least 6 months. One was a 2 year old that was basically given to us, and I gave her to a trainer who now uses her for lessons. Another was sold to a couple who live about 1.5 miles from here. She is still living in a corral. According to the farrier we share, Lilly is doing great. And the vet and the farrier say my horses are all healthy...so it seems this completely inexperienced owner has been 5 for 5 in keeping healthy horses in a corral.

Since none of the horses I know living in corrals have problems, I conclude that living in a corral does not cause problems. From what I've seen, stupid and neglectful owners cause problems, and will do so regardless of pasture, corral or stall.


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## Cynical25 (Mar 7, 2013)

PunksTank said:


> Blanket Statements Don't Work.


This!

I've been around numerous stalled performance horses - worked with a few big name breeders/trainers throughout the years - and never encountered any stall vices. The only cribbing collar I've ever applied was to an old broodmare who was 100% pastured. Proper management is the key.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

IMO the situation OP described sounds like it is/will be fine.

I'll also reiterate what others have said about getting the work arrangement in writing. Make sure it covers how many days per week, how many stalls, etc. you're responsible for, and what happens if you get sick or want to go somewhere on vacation and you can't be there to do the stalls on your day (do you pay a pro-rated fee for the days you don't clean? If so, how much?) and what kind of notice you'd have to give if you wanted to move your horse or just pay cash instead of working.

You can find lots of threads on this and other sites about arrangements like this going very badly; it's always best to have something in writing in case it does!


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

bsms said:


> Yes, I'm sure I could find stalled horses with problems. I'm sure I could find pastured horses with problems. It isn't the corral or pasture causing the problem, but neglect and not caring.
> 
> My horses have good feet - but their corral is dry, very firm, even rocky in places. If I let the poop build up 12" deep or put my corral in a marsh (not likely around here), then their feet would suck. And I've seen 'pastures' that were more swamp than pasture...
> 
> ...


Dude, the key word in my sentence was "stalled" not corralled. 

I'm glad that you are 5 for 5. You seem to have a very limited experience, though. Tell me, how do you explain all the smart and attentive owners who have horses that crib, weave, pace, lean, have ulcers? Oh wait, you don't know any horses who do that so they must not really exist.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

You said stalled in direct response to my post describing "non-pasture living horses". I never said anything about stalled animals. I don't know anyone with a stall. I don't know why you brought stalls into the thread.

From the OP's first post:

"He doesn't have pasture land but he does have good sized paddocks for each horse and he feeds his horses well and they look well nourished and fine. This horse has never been pastured in the 5 years that they've had it and the horse is 8. So is not pastuing bad?"

The thread asks if PASTURE is NEEDED. The answer is no. Why? Because so many horses are kept healthy without access to pasture. And if someone with my limited experience can do it, it probably isn't very hard.

"Tell me, how do you explain all the smart and attentive owners who have horses that crib, weave, pace, lean, have ulcers?"

When I meet one, I'll let you know. But again - if a great many healthy, content horses in southern Arizona are doing fine without access to pastures, then pastures are not a requirement. BTW - for cribbing, Wiki is your friend:

"Current research in this field indicates that the prevention of these stereotypic behaviors is based upon management conditions which allow daily free movement and feeding practices that provide higher amounts of roughage and limited amounts of concentrates. A growing body of work suggests that fat and fiber-based diets may also result in calmer patterns of behavior."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cribbing_(horse)#Causes


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

I think you just made my point. Thanks. 

Prevention of colic: daily free movement.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Sahara said:


> I think you just made my point. Thanks.
> 
> Prevention of colic: daily free movement.


 I have to point out that free daily movement as such does not feature in any management for the avoidance of colic
The main causes are
Bloodworms
Roundworms
Sudden changes in diet that cause stomach and digestive upsets
Insufficient drinking water
Horses that bolt their food or for some other reason don't chew it properly
Sand or dirt in the intestines

Although having access to a grazing situation does make it easier to allow a horse to be constantly browsing this can be replicated by the use of slow feeders and where you have horses with metabolic issues that becomes a necessity where grazing has to be restricted
Exercise can and is provided by the use of horse walkers, riding and lunging 
No one here is advocating having a horse shut in a stable 24/7
Horses can be neglected in any situation - including when kept out at pasture 24/7 - which is how most cases of laminitis occur


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

Sahara said:


> I think you just made my point. Thanks.
> 
> Prevention of colic: daily free movement.


I meant prevention of cribbing, not colic.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Sahara said:


> I think you just made my point. Thanks.
> 
> Prevention of colic [edit - cribbing] : daily free movement.


No, I did not make your point. The OP never asked if a horse left in a 10x12 stall all day would have problems. If that was the question, I would not have posted.

The question was if pasture is needed. Pasture. Horses move around just fine in a corral. Given the health I've seen in horses in 20x20 pens, combined with regular riding, I have to conclude that "daily free movement" is possible even in settings I wouldn't like for a horse. In a 60' corral or bigger, with multiple horses, they DO move around a lot. Without pasture.

"_He doesn't have pasture land but he does have good sized paddocks for each horse and he feeds his horses well and they look well nourished and fine. This horse has never been pastured in the 5 years that they've had it and the horse is 8. So is not pastuing bad?_"

PASTURE is not needed. They do not need a field to go graze in all day.

I explained my perspective in my first post on this thread:

"_My 3 live in a corral that is about 80 x 110, although irregularly shaped. I'm pretty sure Mia has never lived anywhere BUT a corral. Many horses in southern Arizona live in less space.

More space would be nice. However, I don't expect to ever have pasture land for them..._"

If you wish to hear folks opinions on keeping a horse in a stall 24/7, then you are free to ask the question. And since I have no experience with doing so, I won't comment on your thread. I do have experience keeping horses without a pasture for them to graze in daily. That is what I wrote about.


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

bsms said:


> But I can go thru a stable that has 20x20 stalls and less, and see healthy looking horses complete with muscles and decent feet, waiting to be
> 
> .





bsms said:


> . I never said anything about stalled animals. I don't know anyone with a stall. I don't know why you brought stalls into the thread.
> ]


You brought up stalled horses, not me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

And my point is if you do not have adequate space to keep a horse maybe you should get a hamster. In my personal experience, keeping a horse in an 80 ft corral is borderline 'negligent and ignorant'. Lets agree to disagree.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Whatever.

I specified the experience I've had, including a picture of where my horses live. I don't know how to be clearer than a picture (from post #8)::?










In southern Arizona, a "stall" sometimes refers to a small 'corral' - corral referring to an area with some fencing around it to prevent the horse from wandering away. A typical 'stall' in this area would be a fenced in area around 15 x 40 (to use a neighbor as an example), with a 10x12 shade, water and feed provided by humans. The county requires a minimum of 400 sq ft per horse. My neighbor has 3 'stalls' side by side, with a paddock (60x80) to turn the horses out in.

There may be someone in southern Arizona who has enclosed stalls, although in this county 20x20 would be the legal minimum for them. I don't know of anyone like that.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Sahara said:


> And my point is if you do not have adequate space to keep a horse maybe you should get a hamster. In my personal experience, keeping a horse in an 80 ft corral is borderline 'negligent and ignorant'. Lets agree to disagree.


You call me "borderline 'negligent and ignorant'" - and then say let's just agree to disagree? What other names do you want to call me and then tell me to ignore? You tell me to get rid of my horses and keep hamsters instead - and then suggest I drop it?

How many of the horses in southern Arizona do you think should be shot to put them out of their misery?

Do the horses in the picture I posted LOOK abused? Is this the face of a suffering horse? Apart from having her stirrup leathers not matching the saddle, that is...










If you have EVIDENCE that the majority of horses in the desert are suffering from owners who are "borderline 'negligent and ignorant'", please post it. Until then, don't **** in my Wheaties and tell me to ignore the smell.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

^I dunno, that horse looks in pretty bad shape to me... /silly sarcasm.
Off Topic--She's so cute, bsms!


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Sahara said:


> I meant prevention of cribbing, not colic.


That's not true actually. The worst cribbers I've seen were on pastures (from 7 to 20 acres), and were NOT stalled even a portion of the day.


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

Ok people. Lets try to be civil. No need for calling names or being rude. 

The OP wanted to know if pasture is needed if the horse has turn out already. No where was it mentioned that the horse was locked in a stall 24/7. The answer is no. Is it the best cituation? No, but it is not bad either. 

Like I said in a previous post, I do know of some horses, mostly stallions, that never get turned out. I don't like it but the horses do survive. Many vices do start when horses are stalled for a majority of the time. They also exist in horses that are turned out all of the time. I knew of some cribbers that had never been in a stall. 

We have a friend that recently bought a horse. The horse was underweight so she put it out on pasture 24/7. The horse lost more weight. She had the vet check the horse out and deepened again but no issues were found, even the teeth were fine. I have to assume the pasture is lacking enough nutrion for the horse, so pasture is not ALWAYS better. For the most part it is. 

Sahara, having a horse in a coral or paddock or pen of 80' is not negligent or ignorant. I know several show and recreational horses that live like that. The owners don't want nicks and bites from other horses on their horse but the horses do fine. 

We don't have pasture. We don't have excessive room for the horses we have. We have been ask by several people if we would keep their horses with ours. Even ones that are out on pasture 24/7. Wait, what? They want to move their horses from pasture to a place with no pasture? That is negligence and ignorance, right? No, they see that our horses are healthy and well cared for. 

I have to agree with Zexious, bsms. Look at that mane. It seriously needs to be brushed. It's all over the place! (Insert sarcastic expression)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

Horse racer said:


> So, I'm buying a horse that I've worked with for a while now and she's an awesome horse. Everything I look for in a horse and just amazing. i've developed a great relationship with her and stuff. The deal I have with the guy is that I buy the horse and he'll keep it at his barn and feed it for me in exchange I muck out the stalls. Which is a great deal! But....he doesn't pasture his horses. He doesn't have pasture land but he does have good sized paddocks for each horse and he feeds his horses well and they look well nourished and fine. This horse has never been pastured in the 5 years that they've had it and the horse is 8. So is not pastuing bad? I'm just wondering and maybe a little concerned...


No horses do not always have to be pastured. A very large portion of show horses are never pastured and are stalled over night with paddocks during the day. As long as the horses have a good size paddock OR are at least thrown in the arena for a good run and ridden regularly, it is fine for some horses to not be pastured.

That decision is very specific to what the horse's job is throughout its life.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I think that bsms's horses , by being kept together in a "herd" to meander that corral are far happier than any horse that is kept in a large paddock, or even a pasture all by itself. I realize this was not part of the original discussion, but it really is an important factor in a horse's "happiness". his horses may not be able to gamble across green pastures, but they can mutually groom and intereact and meander across the corral, and that peaceful interaction of the small herd is FAR more calming to them than being allowed to roam more. 

Even horses that can only interact across a fence do not have the same mental stimulus as those that literally interact next to and with each other as a herd. But, I know that is not always possible . Just wanted to point out that I am pretty sure that bsms's horses are examples of sane and satisfied domestic horses.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Sahara said:


> And my point is if you do not have adequate space to keep a horse maybe you should get a hamster. In my personal experience, keeping a horse in an 80 ft corral is borderline 'negligent and ignorant'. Lets agree to disagree.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This was totally uncalled for and I am quite surprised you could make such a statement.

I know MANY horses who are stalled with daily turnout, who rarely get to see a real pasture, who are healthy and happy. It is not that common to see these horses crib. The worst cribbers I have seen are ones in pastures, who stand at a fence post and crib all day long.

Many areas of the country, either due to climate or space restrictions, simply do not have pasture. This means that the horse owner may have to make some concessions to make up for it, but these horses are not automatically neglected or abused.


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## MissingStar (Feb 20, 2013)

Years ago I had an aged mare. I asked my vet what I should be doing for her, besides the obvious, to keep her in optimum health. He replied, "The best thing you can do for any horse, regardless of age, is to keep it moving". 

Milling around in a corral or small paddock is "moving" in my book.


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## shelbyhagler (Aug 21, 2013)

I didn't read all the posts but my opinion is that your horse will be perfectly fine. He was raised that way and as long as he gets regular exercise and is healthy I don't see a problem. I personally have my horses on pasture but I know a lot of people who do keep their horses in stalls or have very small paddocks. But yet their horses are happy! Every time I've tried to keep my barrel horse in a stall or small space he tries to colic, because he wasn't raised that way. But your horse is used to it and will be fine. And about cribbing, not just horses kept in stalls crib. I had used to have a mare that stayed in pasture and she cribbed a lot!


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

If pasture were a requirement, most horse owners in Arizona would not have horses. Most horses in Arizona are kept in pens. Is it ideal, no. But it is a desert for gosh sakes. 

My guys live in pens and don't have pasture. And if they did, it would be grazed down in nothing flat and there wouldn't be a blade of grass on it. I have a friend with a huge "pasture" (I'm guessing close to 20 acres) and is nothing but dirt and weeds. I do admire the space though. I wish my guys had 20 acres of dirt and weeds! 

And I live in northern Arizona, where it actually rains once in a while. In the Phoenix or Tucson area, only the wealthiest people have grass because it has to be irrigated and planted and cared for.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Coming from experience at both extremes and a little bit in between, this is what I have noticed:

On a large scale, a large amount of horses turned out together on a huge amount of acreage. Very happy.

Horses in a training/showing barn that are stalled, no turn out but ridden/trained 5-6 days a week. Very happy.

The only time that I have witnessed unhappy horses that come up with stall vices is when there is a lack of food, lack of exercise, mental stimulation or all the above.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

trailhorserider said:


> If pasture were a requirement, most horse owners in Arizona would not have horses. Most horses in Arizona are kept in pens. Is it ideal, no. But it is a desert for gosh sakes.
> 
> My guys live in pens and don't have pasture. And if they did, it would be grazed down in nothing flat and there wouldn't be a blade of grass on it. I have a friend with a huge "pasture" (I'm guessing close to 20 acres) and is nothing but dirt and weeds. I do admire the space though. I wish my guys had 20 acres of dirt and weeds!
> 
> And I live in northern Arizona, where it actually rains once in a while. In the Phoenix or Tucson area, only the wealthiest people have grass because it has to be irrigated and planted and cared for.


This is a geographical difference in the U.S. that many people are not familiar with. Here in NC where the weather can be almost tropical (hot, wet, humid) 5 acres of pasture can keep a number of horses busy most of the non winter months if you control the weeds. When we lived in TX, you would probably need at least 10x that much space to provide the same forage.


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## Horse racer (Jun 28, 2012)

Thanks guys, makes me feel a little more at ease. I like the idea of pasturing and when I get my own place I'll pasture my horses. But I think Addy will be fine, like I said I don't see any effects of not being pastured except being energetic sometimes. Thanks for all your input!


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

I think horses should be pastured. I've noticed a huge difference in my own horse's happiness when I moved them to an area with pasture. Even if all they get is a large dirt lot, it is better than a stall.

I work for a barn that keeps all their horses stalled (10 horses). Almost every horse on the property exhibits stereotypical behavior. Some crib, some pace, some stand in the corner and just look depressed, some kick the walls constantly. Most of them have issues with colic. At least 3 of them have swollen legs from stocking up or kicking the walls.

A horse was designed to move- it keeps their feet healthy, their GI tract healthy, and keeps their mind stimulated. 

I would rather sell my horses than keep them stalled. If you locked a child in it's room all it's life it would be considered child abuse. I consider stalling abuse unless that horse is out working for 3 hours a day or doing something physically exhausting. 

Growing up I didn't know better, as that was how horses were kept. Now I do. Unless there is severe weather or the horse has a bad injury, or you are at a horse show/camping trip, I do not believe in stalling.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Can I just clarify that the OP isn't contemplating keeping her horse in a stall 24/7
The property she is talking about provides dry lot paddocks - when she talks about pasture she is meaning an acreage of land that grows grass


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