# Hoof Problems = Euthanasia?



## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

Let me first offer my condolences. I do not have any experience with this other than to say that yes a horse with an infection of the bone in the foot can suffer from chronic abcess. Euthanasia seems extreme but may be the only option once those bones are gone and your mare is down permanently. The abcess causes the lamebness you see but she probably has some pain most days. Horses are stoic animals and hide pain because in the wild the weak one is eaten first.

Only you can make the final decision for her. Sorry you had such a dire diagnosis. And FWIW a second opinion is always a good idea.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Wow, I've never seen that level of coffin bone degradation.
Are you certain your horse is not lame other than when she is obviously limping? People can adjust their eyes to seeing a horse moving abnormally, until they believe they are sound. I've had people tell me their horse was sound when the horse was obviously gimping around.
One way you can tell if a horse is having chronic pain is by looking at their body structure. How they hold themselves and stand can be good indicators of if/how they are compensating for pain. Also abnormal muscle development.
If you posted photos of your horse, people here would probably be able to tell you if there were signs of chronic pain.
However, I could almost believe she is not in pain unless abscessing, due to the amount of sole depth she has. That being said, due to her issue involving the bones inside the hoof, there is probably no way to keep her from abscessing over and over. 
Most likely the vet is correct in saying the humane thing to do would be to put her down.


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## tinabeanad (Dec 27, 2018)

Thanks for all of the replies. The vet from the University called, couldn't access the link so I just got done sending him the images so we will see what he seems to think.

I should emphasize that she is just a pasture pet and would only need to be pasture sound. When she is not blowing an abscess, she is fine. Her abscess that we are dealing with now just actually opened up today and already, she is putting her full weight on it and getting around much better.*

While I am sure there is some pain when she does not have an abscess, given the internal structures, she is bright eyed and loves life, she doesn't seem miserable and in pain. I know horses are stoic but there is no body language that indicates she is in massive pain outside of the abscesses.

So, I guess it is a matter if we can get the abscesses from continuing how they have been. I think if we could get good control of that, she would be okay. That is where the trimming comes in but I don't know if it's best to not be so drastic - I mean, before her trims were mediocre and now I have a really great farrier so I am unsure if that is too much of a big change for her.

Thanks again for the information and advice. I will keep everyone updated on to how she is doing.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

tinabeanad said:


> I should emphasize that she is just a pasture pet and would only need to be pasture sound....
> While I am sure there is some pain when she does not have an abscess, given the internal structures, she is bright eyed and loves life, she doesn't seem miserable and in pain. I know horses are stoic but there is no body language that indicates she is in massive pain outside of the abscesses.


My vet says that "pasture sound" should not imply a horse that is severely lame or in constant pain. It should mean a horse that is in no pain on soft ground, and that only has issues with sustained work. 

Looking at those xrays again, the destruction of the bone in the hoof has caused severe deformation of the outer hoof capsule also, and there is no way the horse is able to move and stand normally. I am sorry but I think you are believing you don't see signs of pain even though the signs are there. When you say loves life, does that mean she canters around the field? Or does she walk everywhere and lay down frequently?

I had a mare in massive pain from foundering, and she had bright eyes, showed interest in other horses and continued eating. That didn't mean she wasn't suffering. Horses have a very strong survival instinct and usually won't show a depressed state unless they are certain their death is imminent.

I think you are being naive if you believe this comes down to hoof trimming. Meaning, instead of thinking your horse is going to be OK long term, I'd be thinking about when the best time would be in the near future to let her go. Maybe she hasn't reached that level of suffering in your mind yet, but she will very soon and this is not something that can be reversed or fixed. She won't grow new hoof bones. The structure of the outer hoof grows from the soft tissue around those bones, and in my opinion all of that is disrupted to the point where she will soon be unable to grow a supportive shell at all.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I've had some horses with hoof issues, founder and so on, and I've never seen an Xray that showed such degradation in all my life with them. Unfortunately, I have to say I'm with your vet on this one. Not necessarily a put her down today kind of thing but......soon, for her sake. We owe it to them to have their best interests at heart, even when it breaks ours. Were she mine, I would pick a nice, warm, spring, sunny day when she can go out to pasture and hand graze, get a nice spa treatment and then toward the end of the day, I would give her grace. I'm sorry.


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

I have also never seen such xrays. I would be curious to see pictures of the mare's feet and a video of how she moves, even free in the pasture. 

Also curious to hear @*loosie* 's opinion..


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## rambo99 (Nov 29, 2016)

Have seen Xrays of foundered horses with rotated coffin bones close to penetrating the soles. Haven't seen an xray with a coffin bone that degraded. Kindest act of love you could do is lay her to rest,on a nice sunny day. Never easy to do, but doing right by them sometimes isn't easy and saying good bye one last time is extremely hard.


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## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

Hiya just chipping in - sorry to hear the bad news. I would say before making a final decision DO try to get pictures of her feet (clean and as straight as possible when on the ground and angled appropriately when held up etc). DO try get videos of her moving freely and post them here. I recently had to put my 18yo dog down. Don't get me wrong, when I was around he was bright and happy. But all the other hours, at night, in the dark he ached and struggled to get comfortable. It was time even if the hours *in my presence* life for him looked bearable. I think life in general is an unbearable burden alone, let alone pain on top of it. The bearable hours are measured against our own happiness, not theirs. I totally believe it's possible she's a happy girl and the good days outweigh the bad but you will rarely find vets or strangers advise anything other than euthanasia because the risk that your love for her might end up with her suffering terribly and you beating yourself up with guilt. Better to end on a happy, controlled note, where possible! 

So.. the next best option is to find a way to keep you grounded. Like posting openly on a forum, regular vet visits etc to keep an objective eye on things so to speak. I've not been a member anywhere near as long as some on here but this is not a community that'll jump to euthanasia unless they really felt it was in the horse's best interests. Good luck it is NOT easy <3


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I cannot access the pictures. 

What I will say is that when there are problems in both feet a horse will more often than not, be taken as being sound where it is really lame on both fronts or even all four feet.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi, 

First & foremost, if you want more specific advice, you can post hoof & body pics. Check out the link below in my signature for what's required of hoof pics. In the other link in my signature you will find sources for more info too - specifically hoofrehab.com is one that should help.

Wow, agree with others that I've not seen that level of osteoporosis - at least in an apparently mostly(assuming) sound horse. That's pretty significant. The good thing(well it's not actually, but...) is that horses commonly have a large degrees of osteoporotic pedal bones without obvious issue, and it's such a 'normal' state of affairs that 'porous' P3s are shown in text books as normal and they're not even diagnosed as such until they are quite significant & cause lameness. 

I don't know any kind of surgery that could address that - interested to know what the vet's talking of there? There's also a bit of 'ringbone' going on above the extensor process and a bit of... messiness in the navicular region I think could cause some discomfort. And maybe it_ is _time to face the hardest questions. But I don't _*necessarily*_ agree with others that there is no hope for her, based just on these rads & what you've said.



tinabeanad said:


> Approximately two years or so ago, the barn owner managed to let her outside of her paddock and she ran around


This would not have been the cause of the problem, but if it was due to the osteoporosis it would be that it had by then progressed to the point of running around being too much for them to cope with. If it were due to a 'stone bruise' then that's due to the solar corium becoming bruised because soles are too thin to protect the inner structures. Of course, it could well have been both... But whatever, it was not the *start* of the problem.



> we have had abscesses with her off and on in the left foot. Very rarely, they would pop up in the right.


If the abscesses are due to infection/irritation of tissue due to bone fragments or such, that may well be impossible to deal with, so best option would be to just manage her palliatively to ensure her comfort for as long as is possible or practical. If however, abscesses are due just to stone bruises, those long toes tearing at laminae, wet footing, for eg, then yes, this is likely treatable.


> environment as I lived in coastal Florida and it was often wet. While living here, her feet were done with just a natural trim (mustang roll).


Yes, wet footing will not be helping her & to keep her on dry footing will be an important part of getting her hooves healthy...er. And while some will call anything without shoes a 'natural trim', what the rads show is not a *good* trim, but the toes are extremely long, for a start. I've drawn on the 2 lateral views, to show approx how I'd trim them to relieve extra leverage there. Can't say more about the trim just from the rads, but it won't be_ just _a matter of trimming properly that may help her.



> At this point, I am unsure if she has just been trimmed incorrectly for years and now, that she is being trimmed correctly, it is a fighting battle. OR, if I need to stick with a farrier who does the mustang roll.


Cannot comment on his work, aside from _IF_ it was him that left toes so long, that's not good. Even with the best pics, I don't think it's generally fair to make judgement calls on farriery here, as there are so many details that can effect the appearance/specifics, and pics CAN tell inaccurate stories too. So I think there's no 'short cut' to getting yourself as educated as possible, so you can make a more informed decision as to whether your farrier of choice is doing good, bad or otherwise. 

As said, getting/keeping her sound will not be just about the trim. with such weak P3s & thin soles, she will also need protection/support underneath, and I'd consider having her in padded boots. It IS possible to improve bone density, and stimulation(gentle, careful not to further harm) of the foot, ensuring it can function well, will enhance circulation & potentially bone density. BUT realistically, at her age & stage of damage, I wouldn't expect much improvement, even in ideal circumstances. A *good* trim should go a long way towards getting/keeping her sound though, if it is possible for it to do so - eg. abscesses not from disintegrating bone 'wanting out'.

As to the 'need a mustang roll', it seems that it depends who you talk to as to what that means. To me, a 'mustang roll' is simply bevelling the outer edge of the ground surface slightly, to mimic wear & reduce chipping & leverage when the horse is on hard/rough ground. But to some, it means a rather severe bevel of the whole width of the wall, done regardless of state of the foot or ground... and other different specifics to other people. Eg. the line of *roughly* where to trim I drew on your rads could, to some, be called a 'mustang roll'. 



> when she doesn't have an abscess, she enjoys her life. Which is another thing I want to point out. The only time she is in pain is when she has an abscess.


Ditto to others that it *may* be just that you're not seeing it. As an eg, years ago before I really learned about hooves(& they were a big cause of me wanting to do so) I didn't realise my donkey & pony were lame(neither did the vets or farriers that saw them) for a long time - then my donkey was lame, pronounced 'incureable' by the vet but also diagnosed as arthritic knees, nothing to do with his feet - until I finally managed to get their feet right & they then moved way differently - IOW I didn't realise they were lame until I saw what they were like when they weren't. :-(

But of course, you may be right and she is fine the rest of the time. Then you've got to weigh up how much ongoing/regular suffering due to abscesses is too much to humanely let her put up with...



> Could the "moth-eaten" coffin bone simply be showing where her numerous abscesses in the past have tracked?


No, not to that kind of degree. This has been going on for a very long time. She doesn't necessarily have permanent infection/inflammation though - that would, IME likely cause her to be noticably lame the rest of the time too. But remember, horses are generally pretty stoic, and adrenaline also accounts for a lot - I've even seen a horse with pedal bone penetration on all 4 feet - leaving bloody footprints, but walk off a trailer apparently sound!! :-O


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

If you haven't already, I'd strongly recommend posting these, and the information, to the Horse Vet Corner group on Facebook. One of the advising vets on there is an equine podiatrist and would be able to give you realistic feedback, along with resources and contacts. The vets there are incredible.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Possibly the reason she is abscessing in her 'good' foot is because she is bearing more weigh on that foot.


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## tinabeanad (Dec 27, 2018)

Thank you all for such wonderful advice and taking the time to post. I really do appreciate it.

I will elaborate on some things. I got my mare when she was 11 and even then, she had a lot of toe, not much heel. So, when my original farrier trimmed her and she still had long toes and not much heel, I just thought it was the way her feet were. 

I honestly didn't know her foot was capable of being "reshaped" I guess I could say. Fast forward to when I moved late last year and got a new farrier, her feet never looked so good. Everything was even on the soul and outer edges and while I am not expert as far as feet are concerned, it just overall looked like a well balanced hoof, what a normal hoof is supposed to look like. The heels were not flat on the ground, the toe was not long. Now, if you let her go past her 6 week schedule, the toe will grow out long and the heel will be flat to the ground.

Because of the last abscess in her left and then the one that sprung up in her right, she has had to go beyond her normal farrier schedule (he wanted me to get xrays first as well) so now her toe is pretty long, which is what you are seeing in the xrays.

I will take some pics today of her feet currently, I will try to find some pics of when my original farrier was still working on her as well.

I guess the one thing I really need advice on as well, is whether we should make such a drastic change in how she is normally trimmed. She had gone two months without an abscess before moving here. She moved here, I got her trimmed, she was very sore a few days after and then she popped an abscess, even though the trim looked beautiful (but way shorter and different than she is used to). 

Either way, I know she needs a proper trim to help support the internal weakened structures but at the same time, should we be less drastic? I don't mind having the farrier out multiple times within her normal schedule if need be, I just want to do what is right for her so that we can minimize the chance of making her sore and blowing another abscess. 

Additionally, in my research, I have read where years of incorrect trimming can actually cause degradation of the coffin bone. Along with the abscessing, I think it is very possible it has created this mess. Don't get me wrong, I do not blame my farrier - I should have been more proactive in making SURE everything was right and that was my screw up, I will beat myself up for it every day.


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## tinabeanad (Dec 27, 2018)

Loosie, sorry I forgot to mention in the above post, the vet was talking about going in there, removing any keratoma or infection, putting her on strong antibiotics via IV. He says that would be heroic efforts though, she wouldn't have a good chance at recovery and advised me to euthanize.


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## tinabeanad (Dec 27, 2018)

These photos are older. They aren't the best, just ones I was able to find on my Facebook when she was under the original farrier. Now, I know I took a photo of the new farrier's work because I was so impressed, I just need to find it.


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## tinabeanad (Dec 27, 2018)

This video was taken after she came out of stall rest about a month ago. She was still ouchy as the abscess was not totally healed up yet.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

She looks lame on both fronts in that video. One worse than the other, obviously, but not a comfortable horse on the opposite leg, either.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Lame on both fronts is what I see also.


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

I think i would consider euthanasia. The bone loss looks bad. The video shows a horse that is lame in both fronts but worse on the abscess foot. 

At first i wanted to say give the horse more time with a competent farrier but those x rays look bad. keratomas can be removed but i don't know about this case. See what the university says. Also consider what medications you can give to keep her pain managed. My old mare has lameness issues and is maintained on equioxx. But abscess pain is often extremely severe. Perhaps banamine would be more appropriate? 

You want to keep her as comfortable as possible until you come to a decision.


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## Myrah Lemmon (Mar 30, 2019)

I suggest getting more opinions maybe even from a vet in a different town or different state. Also with seeing the x-rays, it looks like it may have been the fact that her coffin bone was not parallel with the hoof soul or the ground... I know sometimes that can cause problems.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Myrah Lemmon said:


> Also with seeing the x-rays, it looks like it may have been the fact that her coffin bone was not parallel with the hoof soul or the ground... I know sometimes that can cause problems.


I am taking it that you mean (distal edge of)P3 being parallel to the ground. I know there are some around that have advised that, but it does NOT make for good balance & healthy hooves(& joints). There will be a lot of excess strain on the navicular region & the extensor process region, among the rest. Good balance, to allow good function without excessive strain, from a lateral aspect means the phalangeal bones are lined up straight. That makes the distal edges of P3 raised at the heel by around 3-5 degrees.

I haven't looked with detail at the rads on that specific, but thought they looked OK to me on that front.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Dear @tinabeanad, I'm sorry you've got this difficult situation to deal with - because this kind of thing is always difficult, no matter which way you cut it. :hug:

On the clip provided, the horse looks painfully lame, which you'd expect due to the abscess - those things are terribly painful. Question is, what percentage of her time is she abscessing? Is there a clip of how she walks when she's not abscessing? Is the pain associated with the arthritis alone controllable with anti-inflammatories etc, for palliative care? This often buys arthritic old dogs an extra year or two with reasonable quality of life - and with dogs, in some cases I would do it, in some cases not - and of course, the biggest cause of arthritis in dogs is owners overfeeding and letting them get overweight. :evil: They literally "love" them to death. Funny love, and not what I'd call love, as love should really be acting in the best interests of an animal, rather than giving in to "must-feed-infant" instincts, or to the positive reaction of the animal being overfed (it doesn't know better, but _you_ should).

Based on the X-rays alone, I wouldn't have felt I could make a call on the amount of pain the horse is in from the arthritis and bone changes. That's because osteo pain is a funny thing. Sometimes you can have excruciating pain over little issues, and sometimes you can have just discomfort that you can medically manage, with very major issues. Pain isn't always proportional to the extent of the physical problem. So, I'd have to make my assessment of the likely pain levels an animal is in, by observing it carefully, day to day, in various situations. It helps if you really know the animal.

If the horse was always in the state she was in, in that abscess clip, then I'd euthanise her, no question about it. But, that's the apex of this horse's pain, while abscessing, and unless she's constantly abscessing, and this can't be addressed, then I'd like to know what her baseline levels of comfort/discomfort are. (Clip would be helpful here, but not necessarily conclusive.)

Because it's expensive to do palliative care for horses, the pragmatic advice in a case like this is to euthanise. If that's what you choose to do, don't feel guilty - it's a rare horse in the wild that lives to be 24 years old. She's a gorgeous horse, by the way - lucky you to have met up with her, and had her so long. Unfortunately, at the tail end of a horse's life span, we're almost always called upon to make really hard decisions - in the wild, predators and starvation would finish them - so at least, what we can offer is more peaceful. I've had to do it three times in the last five years, and they were all horses I've known for 28+ years; two of them I knew from birth and remembered as little foals. I last had to do it a fortnight ago, with a really wonderful, sweet gelding who got to 34 years and 5 months - and he came from a "dog auction" at age three! He had a really happy life story, which you can read here: https://www.horseforum.com/horse-talk/heartwarming-horse-stories-802657/#post1970701443

This story also contains a link to how we made the decision, in the end - and it wasn't an easy decision, but it was the right one.

When you euthanise, whether sooner or later, you don't have to be alone. You'll have a lot of support from amazing people on HF if you want it. :hug:

All the best to you and Blondie.


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## rambo99 (Nov 29, 2016)

tinabeanad said:


> Loosie, sorry I forgot to mention in the above post, the vet was talking about going in there, removing any keratoma or infection, putting her on strong antibiotics via IV. He says that would be heroic efforts though, she wouldn't have a good chance at recovery and advised me to euthanize.



From this post here you know what needs to be done. You just haven't come to terms with it. It hard to do very hard. Sometimes we just need others to confirm what needs to be done..

The video shows a horse who is lame on both fronts one is worse than other. She's a beautiful horse.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

I found an assessment list I use, with quality-of-life criteria, for when I'm reviewing old horses in my care re end of life decisions:

https://www.horseforum.com/member-j...ys-other-people-479466/page37/#post1970667521

Some people may find it helpful - and it's in the middle of a discussion three months ago where I asked some of my journal buddies to lend me their eyes and opinion for a review of my old horse, who was getting very thin despite all our efforts. Over the page too are situations that we really want to avoid... I've seen a lot of horses die unfortunately, and most of them in really awful circumstances. The three deaths I had here were comparatively peaceful...


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## tinabeanad (Dec 27, 2018)

Thank you all for the kind replies.

Prior to her moving here in late 2018, and under the new farrier, we could go stretches at a time between abscesses. Maybe, 3 or 4 per year. Now that she has moved here and is being trimmed by a different farrier, we are getting back to back abscesses. This is the first time ever getting back to back abscesses like this. I don't think he is necessarily trimming her wrong, I just think she needs someone with a different trimming method.

The video I posted is not how she normally is when she is not abscessing. This was after about a week of stall rest. The barn owners had let her out into the paddock and the video you see is after she had already reared up on the barn owners while walking her to the paddock and then continued to kick up her heels inside the paddock (she is normally a calm, well mannered horse so I think the stalling drove her up a wall).

The current abscess has opened up and she is walking around much better. Up grazing. No laying down and walking about. Of course, not completely sound but it usually takes her some days to recover once the abscess busts open.

I am unsure if you know who Pete Ramey is but I have been doing a lot of research and came across him. I was able to find someone close to me who is a barefoot specialist and trained under him. Pete Ramey actually referred her. So, we have an appointment for her to come out next week to take a look and see what the best trim for her would be. Articles

I am still waiting on a call back from the University but will be calling them on Monday.

Again, thank you all for the wonderful advice.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

tinabeanad said:


> Now that she has moved here and is being trimmed by a different farrier, we are getting back to back abscesses. This is the first time ever getting back to back abscesses like this. I don't think he is necessarily trimming her wrong, I just think she needs someone with a different trimming method.


It may well be that she's just reached 'that stage' or that there is something going on, but a) if she is only now getting such regular abscesses, then I'd think it's worth a try to change things & give it a chance to see if she can 'come good'. And b) if it is the trimming that's the prob, then it IS 'wrong'. Of course, haven't even seen photos so...



> I am unsure if you know who Pete Ramey is but I have been doing a lot of research and came across him. I was able to find someone close to me who is a barefoot specialist and trained under him.


Sounds good! I'm on the other side of the 'pond' and he is well known & respected in these parts too. Be interested to see before & after trim pics of the horse's hooves if you care to share.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

I rather suspect that the different environment the horse has moved to has contributed to the extra abscessing as well. Heat, humidity, mud, wet footing (on pasture etc) etc will all predispose to more abscesses. Metabolic issues can do it too, and they're more likely with advancing age, but the increase since changing environments is in my view likely to be significant, rather than coincidental. The farrier and trim is one thing to look at, but so's everything else. Plus the fact that moving can be stressful on a horse, and stress commonly weakens the immune response and predisposes to infections. I'd make sure a vitamin-mineral mix is covering possible micronutrient deficiencies, and I'd particularly look at Vitamin E here as well - it's super useful in stress and healing. I'd be putting Stockholm Tar on the undersides of the hooves at regular intervals too. I know this is "tinkering around the edges", with a serious illness, but it's this sort of tinkering that's bought a few animals I know a few more years of good-quality retirement, and since the OP seems to desire that, it's worth covering all bases here, and putting thinking caps on.

Has the horse been checked for insulin resistance? Are its blood sugar levels elevated? Stuff like that happens in older horses, and so when we're looking at health problems in them, there's often comorbidity - more than one thing going on, which is making everything worse. If you can address one thing, it often improves another.


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## LULUSAYS (Apr 14, 2019)

tinabeanad

I am so so sorry. I don't have advice. But so sorry.


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

I'm coming into this late and have not read all the posts so apologies if my comments repeat what has already been said.


Haven't read much on bone loss, but long toes do contribute to thin soles which in turn contributes to abscesses.


Those toes are way long. Simply doing a mustang roll is not proper barefoot hoof trimming. Too many people tend to think that.


I do know that a laminitic rotated coffin bone can result in remodeling of the tip of the coffin bone accompanied by bone loss. 



Don't know if long term thin/flat soles would do the same to the entire coffin border.


I would urge you to to check out my comments with the experts at a university.


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## tinabeanad (Dec 27, 2018)

Hello, 

I will try to get back on here later this evening to answer some of your questions but below is a video and some photos I took today.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

mg: With hooves like that, no wonder she's abscessing. When did she last see a farrier? If it's within three months, I'd be sacking the farrier. (Generally, trims/touchups should done every 4-6 weeks, even in pasture ornaments.) Those hooves need a lot of work, and a lot of _daily_ attention for a while to get them even resembling healthy again...


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Oh my gosh.... those hooves are horrible. You need a farrier with knowledge immediately. No wonder this mare is abscessing... she has extremely upright pasterns and horrible hooves. Even without the radiographs, I would consider this mare in dire straits.


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## tinabeanad (Dec 27, 2018)

I will say that she is past due for her trim because of the abscessing. The farrier I have now does make them look very nice but I am far from a professional when it comes to the hooves. I have always relied on the farrier to be knowledgeable but clearly, I need to post when they are done to get advice from others who know more than me. 

I have been going out twice a day and applying Durasole to help strengthen the sole and it has been working incredibly well. Now let's hope we can get the trimming to where it needs to be. I also have her on a hoof supplement as well.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

It looks like her left hind is the most uncomfortable at the moment.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Abscessing doesn't prevent the careful use of a hoof rasp to stop the heels from overgrowing and the hoof from distorting - to name just one of the many things you can still do for a hoof when there is an abscess going on. This kind of neglect is making the likelihood of continued abscessing into an inevitability with a susceptible horse. Sure, you have to be careful with the sole when an abscess is going on, but that doesn't mean it's OK to let it get to the stage where it is rotting and cracking, and easy meat for invading microorganisms. Our farrier friend would faint if he saw these photographs, and say, "This horse is under the care of a farrier???"

Topical treatments alone aren't going to fix this mess. Decent - and very careful - hoof trimming is required as part of the treatment...

On the plus side, there's much that can actually be done to try to improve life for this mare...


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

Heels are horribly under run. I'd say the heels have not had a proper trim for a year or even more. Under run heels are a prime cause of long toes and thin soles as the under run heel pushes the sole and toe forward.


This horse can be helped a lot just by trimming the heels. That said, they are so bad that they should not receive a full proper trim all at once but rather over 2-3 trim cycles as the internals of the foot will be making adjustments to the new heel height.


Once the heels are corrected, the rest foot can be re-evaluated at that time. It could easily take a year of proper trimming for those feet to reach the best point they will reach.



I'd suggest contacting all the vets in your area for recommendations for a trimmer and then pick the one with the best recommendations.


I'd also suggest delving into a self education effort for yourself on hoof trimming. Not necessarily to do it yourself but to know when it's being done correctly.


The two people I personally follow are Gene Ovnicek and Pete Ramey. An internet search for either will bring up their sites and materials.


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## tinabeanad (Dec 27, 2018)

Hondo, I actually have a Pete Ramey trained hoof rehabber/farrier (Pete Ramey recommended her to me) coming out tomorrow to trim her but I will discuss doing it bits at a time, even if they have to come out every two weeks so that any changes aren't a shock to the hoof.


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## tinabeanad (Dec 27, 2018)

SueC said:


> Abscessing doesn't prevent the careful use of a hoof rasp to stop the heels from overgrowing and the hoof from distorting - to name just one of the many things you can still do for a hoof when there is an abscess going on. This kind of neglect is making the likelihood of continued abscessing into an inevitability with a susceptible horse. Sure, you have to be careful with the sole when an abscess is going on, but that doesn't mean it's OK to let it get to the stage where it is rotting and cracking, and easy meat for invading microorganisms. Our farrier friend would faint if he saw these photographs, and say, "This horse is under the care of a farrier???"
> 
> Topical treatments alone aren't going to fix this mess. Decent - and very careful - hoof trimming is required as part of the treatment...
> 
> On the plus side, there's much that can actually be done to try to improve life for this mare...


Yes, I agree. Honestly, it is my fault and I take full responsibility for it. Since she was 11 up until now, at 24, I think she was being trimmed incorrectly and I am sure this has pretty much caused all this mess. My original farrier never made her sore, or any of my other horses that I have had sore and given we did not have a lot of options in the area, I thought he was doing right by her and that her feet simply had long toes and was flat just because that was the way her feet were - I thought conformationally, she just had bad feet.

After moving here late last year, I saw that a farrier can change the shape to where they actually looked like a normal hoof but I think the drastic change lamed her up and of course, that scared me so I had been putting off a trim, to try to avoid more abscesses but clearly, she needs to be done and we need to get her back on track.

I will most definitely post photos tomorrow of the new trim and hopefully, we are on a good path to a new start.


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## tinabeanad (Dec 27, 2018)

Also, in regards to the back left hind, since I have had her, we believe she has arthritis in her hip area. Something has fused because there was a time when you could bring her back left forward (to trim, clean etc.) but it has now gotten to the point where it won't go very far forward. She isn't being stubborn and just refusing to give it, it just simply will not go that far forward.

Previous owner used her as a broodmare and she said she always had the vet out when she was foaling because once the foal reached a certain point, Blondy would refuse to push and they had to go in there and get the foal out.


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

Sorry, I didn't go through all of the replies however I just wanted to put my 2cents worth in. I have a TB who was diagnosed with pedal osteitis in both front feet about 3 years ago, he also had the moth bitten appearance and some rotation. We had a few options due the fact we had already been trying barefoot for 2 years with no success it was either try him with shoes or put him down. Obviously we don't have the exact same circumstances but we put shoes on him and he has been 1000x better. His feet are stronger, healthier and better then he was barefoot. I love barefoot and my youngest horse is barefoot but my TB just couldn't cope. 

By the most recent photos you put up those hooves need some desperate attention! My TB is done every 5 weeks and my youngster every 4 weeks.


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

Good deal! With a Pete Ramey trained trimmer, you should be in good hands.


I'll be interested to hear what she says about the long term prognosis. Just looks to me the horse is a long ways from needing euthanasia.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Yeah, I noticed all the scar tissue on the right hind quarter in that vid - before looking at the vid. Yeah, if those feet were ever trimmed well it was _at very least_ 6 months ago. Those loooong, crushed heels didn't get like that over just a few months. I would NOT advise painting them with durasole or anything else. And I'd be prepared for the Pete Ramey trimmer to want to trim little & often, say 3 weekly, and they won't be looking 'nice' for some time. Tho when I say 'little', while they'll need to be brought back to health gradually, there is a lot that can come off immediately too. 

There are heaps of bad farriers around and I understand why, when she was apparently(who knows, maybe coincidence) lamed by one, you got worried to have her trimmed again, but just leaving her has exacerbated. All this has emphasised the great importance of us owners educating ourselves on things like this. Do study Pete Ramey's site in detail - he has heaps of good info on it. Also barehoofcare.com and lamenessprevention.org are really good sources of important info.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

tinabeanad said:


> Hondo, I actually have a Pete Ramey trained hoof rehabber/farrier (Pete Ramey recommended her to me) coming out tomorrow to trim her but I will discuss doing it bits at a time, even if they have to come out every two weeks so that any changes aren't a shock to the hoof.


Please let us know what they say. If I were you, I would be reading EVERY link on Loosie ‘s post. Please learn what those hooves are Supposed to look like, so you can advocate for her!! Do not EVER rely on a farrier to tell you the truth, no matter whose name they use. Apologies to farriers in attendance, but after more than 50 years, I am cynical. As evidenced by THIS.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

greentree said:


> Apologies to farriers in attendance,


No mate! You do not need to apologise for that in the least! As you probably know, I only took up the 'game' 20 years ago because of idiot farriers - originally only planned for my own horses. I know a number of GOOD farriers, but many, many bad ones. 

Just because someone does it as a job, calls themselves a professional, even comes 'highly recommended', doesn't mean to say they know what they're on about. And if the 'pros' may not have much clue, then how on earth are 'lay' horse owners meant to know whether their word is worth listening to or not - that's one huge reason why I bang on about owners educating themselves so much.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Ditto here, I've met more idiot "farriers" than good ones by a ratio of 10:1, and that's being extremely generous. So I'm 48 and cynical, and have been cynical for decades... but am now truly marinated in cynicism... 

Self-education is completely necessary on this subject (and many others)...

Good luck, @tinabeanad! inkunicorn:


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

For learning about the overall anatomy, disease, treatment, and health of the hoof, there is no better resource than The Essential Hoof Book. 



It is directed at the lay owner but many a farrier and even veterinarian can learn great deal from it.


It is both recommended by and forwarded by Gene Ovnicek, the founder of lamenessprevention.org


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## tinabeanad (Dec 27, 2018)

Hey guys!

Has been a busy time for me, with the horse, as well as closing on a house so sorry it has taken me a bit to post an update.

The new farrier is awesome! Please keep in mind, we are going very slowly with her. She is due to come back on Tuesday to check on boot fit (got the Easyboot Clouds for her) and possibly trim off some more. We are having her come out every two weeks.

I was REALLY happy that she left the sole alone. This has greatly improved my horse I do believe. With prior farrier, her whole hoof would be white, including the sole so I think leaving the sole alone is just working wonders.

She is walking GREAT now. No limp at all even without the boots. I know it will be a long road before her feet resemble normal but I think the slow and frequent trims will be the best route for her.


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## dogpatch (Dec 26, 2017)

So happy that you are seeing improvement! Cheering for you and your horse!!


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

Lucky horse has someone who cares. Treat that farrier well!!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Great to hear! Be sure to keep updating... & update your vet too!


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## NeverDullRanch (Nov 11, 2009)

I would ask my vet: "If this was YOUR horse, what would you do?" 

No matter what you decide, your veterinarian will support your decision and help you to help your horse.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^Good way to put it, as ethically, vets aren't supposed to advise you you 'should' put the horse down or that 'it's time'(which I kept telling my MIL when she said she was waiting for the vet to tell her when to put her decrepit old, suffering dog down...). But asking what THEY would do would get around that one. 

Not that the vet's necessarily right all the time or you need to agree, but that's another issue... In my 'line' I've had many people told their horse is 'incureable' only to be able to give their horse far more than just palliative care.


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## tinabeanad (Dec 27, 2018)

Hey guys!

Just wanted to provide some updated photos.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Good first trim I reckon. Looks like, while heels are still high(can't do everything in one fell swoop, tho I probably would have lowered them a bit more) they have 'beveled' them to help bring the bearing surface back, which is good. How's your horse feel?? While given the previous probs it's of course not all just going to go away, esp not in the short term, but hopefully she will gradually become more comfortable & no more abscesses.


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

Cool! I really appreciate the follow up and knowing what happened. Lucky you, lucky horse.


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