# Looking for any and all advice!



## Heelsdown (Jun 5, 2011)

Any hints or bits of advice will be greatly appreciated. I feel like I'm going backward in my riding.

I take lessons with a private trainer. I started out riding a TB and we just did not mesh. I was so nervous around her. She was constantly trying to bite and nip from the ground. This was maybe my 3rd lesson in and I asked to switch to another horse. 
They put me with a total sweetheart, also a TB. My confidence soared with this horse. She was a doll and so patient with me. I had never rode in an English saddle before and was a total newb. Go to the barn one day and find out she was sold. 

They put me with another horse. I adored him. Smaller paint/qh. He tested me the first day by going to middle of the ring and refused to move. I struggled a little but then, he listened to me. He tested me a little in the beginning, but within the first lesson, I had no problems. I was trotting fantastic with him. Almost up to the canter, yay! Go to the barn the next week and he's sold. 

They put me with a warmblood who was a dream. Again, I learned so much with her. She tested me a little but then after a little power struggle, we were good. I was again building confidence, doing great. Find out she's sold. 

All of this happened over the past 6 months. 

So now I'm back with the original meanie TB. I really just don't care for this horse. Right now she is their only beginner horse. The rest are ponies or intermediate horses. So every week it's this mare now. I feel like I'm slipping backward with her. The thing is, she does listen to more advanced riders. She just does NOT listen to me at all. As mentioned, I've dealt with the initial power struggle with a horse testing you. I just can't get past the power struggle with her. 
So since I'm stuck with her for now, I really need advice. 

We walk fine. Once we get up to the trot, she throws her head down and goes to the center of the ring. My trainer told me when she does this, she needs more leg. I squeeze with everything I have and struggle to get her back out to the track. We try to trot again. She does the same. My trainer says to kick her with the inside leg and use the outside rein to get her back on the track. It works for a second and she moves to the track, but then refuses to trot. If I do manage to keep her on the track, she gives me a few trots and stops. 
With the constant stop and go, I'm flying all over the place. Several times she stops dead in her tracks and throws her head down and I almost go flying over her head. 

Then she is constantly stopping to bite at flies. She'll just stop and reach backward like she's going to bite my foot but it seems she is just going after a fly. Still, more stopping. 
It's like I have to work for every single step she takes. I feel like I cannot learn anything fighting her constantly. I've had 3 other lesson horses that did not do this to me. 
Is it possible that once a horse sees you as a beginner, they will always see you as a beginner and never respect you? I know this horse is capable of listening. She just doesn't listen to me. My confidence is sinking. 
I really do like my trainer, but my last 3 lessons have sucked. Sometimes getting feedback from others is much more helpful. I'm hoping someone here can help. It's either deal with this mare or switch barns and until recently, I really liked this barn. :-|


----------



## LadyNeigh (Jul 16, 2011)

Get angry with her! Stopping is rude! Slap her with the reins, drive her on with your seat and growl at her! Even if your a beginner, she must not get lazy/cocky with you! Do what your instructor says and all of what i've put above. In your mind think:
"Right- this horse is going to trot for as long as I want her to trot!" look forward and absolutely throw your heart forward. You are going forward!


----------



## MoodIndigo (Oct 18, 2010)

Ouch. That doesn't seem like a fun situation at all.

What's happening here, whether you want to hear it or not, it sounds like your trainer is taking advantage of you, and your money. She is putting you on a horse that is obviously past your level, no matter how much of a beginner she *claims* it is. Horseback riding is supposed to be fun! Not a constant struggle.

To cover the selling thing, it happens a lot. Being in the horse industry doesn't bring much money on a consistent basis. You need to constantly be buying, training, and selling horses. It's just the way it goes, unfortunately.

Though, it is good for you to be riding all these different horses, and I'll let you know that you won't always get the perfect gentleman or lady undersaddle. You've got to learn somewhere! Whether it's on a rotten school pony or a seasoned champion, they all bring good experience. I just have a big problem with people who take advantage of others. I really suggest you find another place with more beginner horses to build your confidence and experience in a positive way, because I don't have faith in this place as a beginner-lesson-type barn.

Sorry to hear about this.


----------



## LadyNeigh (Jul 16, 2011)

As MoodIndigo is saying- your instructor is taking advantageof you, so show her you can ride that horse!


----------



## Dresden (Jun 24, 2011)

I will try to make this short. I'm not critiquing you but I am wondering(as it is a common pitfall) if when you squeeze for the trot, you are balancing on or tightening the reins causing some mixed signals? My previous instructor told me a lot of people do that when learning to post a trot. 

Also, I was taught horses don't get to make decisions. I would not let her go to the center of the ring. If she is going to stop I would at least make her stop in place at the rail. If she tries, I would turn her back to the rail, circle (small circle) if necessary so she is listening at least to where to stop.

And squeezing may not work. She may be the type of horse who needs to be smacked with the reins or kicked(evenly on both sides) once or twice to figure out you mean business. If squeezing doesn't work, when she goes to stop I would tap her with my heels. 

What does your instructor say other than "more leg"? If that's the only advice you are getting, I might consider a different instructor
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

I see this from 2 sides.. First let me get this out of the way.. Yes riding a more difficult horse will help you grow.. I'm not going to tell you how to work thru it as when you lack the confidence horses know it and some will push you.. This one obviously. Ok done with that.. 

Now.. IMO if you are paying for the lesson then you need a horse that will help you gain confidence and grow to the point you CAN ride this type of horse. As it is, you are paying someone to mess up a horse as you cannot get the job done. Will the trainer get on and show you it can be done? Not that it means you are up to it at this point, just asking. I would ask to try one of the ?more advanced horses.. Perhaps one will work better for you than this one. IMO this horse is not a beginner rider horse. He's a "you have learned enough to work with a more difficult horse" horse. I would not be paying to "train" this horse.. First place it's not working.. Either get another horse or change trainer/barns.. I truly find over horsing someone to be very detrimental to their confidence.. IMO, this is the case.. Hope you can get some satisfaction.


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

You can get fly spray and spray her before the ride (to take care of flies).

But other than that... If it's no match at all and if I feel like not getting anything out of lessons, I switch. You have to learn during the lesson, not look after the horse constantly. The problem in your case, unfortunately, it's not always easy to get a beginner horse, so no wonder the barn can be very limited.


----------



## Heelsdown (Jun 5, 2011)

Thank you so much for understanding. It is so frustrating. I started going to the barn last October, but didn't start riding until November. I did an entire month of groundwork first. I feel very confident with this horse from the ground. She doesn't try to bite me any more. I feel like she respects me totally from the ground. Once I hop on, it's a different story. 


> I will try to make this short. I'm not critiquing you but I am wondering(as it is a common pitfall) if when you squeeze for the trot, you are balancing on or tightening the reins causing some mixed signals? My previous instructor told me a lot of people do that when learning to post a trot.


It's definitely possible I'm doing this. I need to pay attention and see if I'm inadvertently pulling. Because I can't get any type of fluid movement out of her, it's possible that my hands are far more busy than they should be. 

I really like my trainer but I know one of the best lessons I had was with another trainer the day my trainer called in sick. It seems like a rider really benefits from different instruction rather than the same. 
I'm constantly reading about how students should 1)be on a longe line 2)learn to ride without stirrups 3) learn to ride without reins
I've done none of this. Actually a month ago I asked her if I could try riding with no stirrups and we did a walk around the ring. But I had to ask. 
I feel like I missed some steps that a beginner should have. 


Oh and I do kick her. First she told me to try a kick with my outside leg. The horse doesn't respond so she told me to kick with both heels. I do this and it still doesn't work. The horse is totally deadened to the leg and I swear her mouth is made of rubber. 
I have seen this horse cantering with another girl but the girl was intermediate, not a beginner. 
I'm 39 and one of the few adults at the barn, as I'm sure is common in many barns. It seems like there are only a few adult beginners. I see mostly young girls or adults who are advanced. 
Well, I'm going to definitely keep trying with this horse. She's just so tall and it makes it more intimidating. 
I'll use the fly spray beforehand as well. I feel like her chomping flies is something she does because she can get away with it because I didn't see her doing that at all when the other girl was riding her. For me, she does as little as she possible can. Like, " I trotted a few steps...... happy?" 

I ordered the book Centered Riding because I heard that it's a great read for beginners. I hope it's here before Friday before my next lesson. 

I may have to look into switching barns though. I hate doing that but I spend $75 an hour for my lesson. Not chump change. Lesson barns are so expensive around here. I want to feel like I'm getting better each lesson with the occasional crappy lesson here and there being fine.


----------



## Heelsdown (Jun 5, 2011)

> IMO this horse is not a beginner rider horse. He's a "you have learned enough to work with a more difficult horse" horse.


That's exactly what I told my trainer. I really don't feel like she's a beginner horse. I know all horses can test you but I was able to "pass" the test with the other 3. I just can't with her. 



> I would not be paying to "train" this horse..


Honestly, I feel like this too. She was new to their barn when I first started. Which now looking back, was really kind of dangerous to put a new horse with a beginner.



> I truly find over horsing someone to be very detrimental to their confidence.


Me too. And I feel overhorsed with her in every way, size and personality. If she was like the warmblood who was huge, but gentle, I'd be fine. Or if she was smaller and naughty, I think being lower to ground would calm me. But her size and her personality combined just makes for a really bad ride. I'm actually relieved to get off of her. 
My trainer doesn't seem worried about it. She thinks I can work through it but this is 3 lessons already. I'm going to see how this Friday goes, and take it from there. I may have to take a break until the barn can get another beginner horse. 
And I hate feeling that way. It makes me feel like such a quitter but I'm taking lessons for pleasure, not to go to Rolex, ya know? I feel like riding should be somewhat fun.


----------



## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

I'm going to be my usual contrarian self and go with your trainer on this one. Yes you're riding for pleasure, but even a good horse can be difficult to ride in certain situations. I remember once I was cantering a horse when she suddenly pulled up because of a stone bruise. If I had never ridden horses that stop suddenly before that, I would have fallen off. What if, when you finally get to buy a horse, the seller misrepresents the horse and you suddenly find yourself riding a nutcase? What if one day the horse you're riding gets stung by a bee and freaks out?

Part of your instructor's job is to prepare you for the dangers you may encounter while riding. The best way to do that is with a horse who behaves badly but in a predictable way. Now, if you're falling off twice a lesson, then yes you're over mounted. But you absolutely should ride a horse like this one sooner or later. Learning to to anything well is never fun _all _of the time.


----------



## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

> My trainer doesn't seem worried about it. She thinks I can work through it but this is 3 lessons already.


Ask her if you can ride for free..  I am not surprised she isn't worried about it, she put you on this horse first.. I'm sorry but this screams inconsiderate. 

I have had people tell me "you can do it" while I am screaming inside and pure jelly. Nope I cannot at *that* time on* that *horse. I have a mare I have had difficulties with due to my confidence level with her.. I can ride 2 others I have just fine when they act up.. Btw, I am 57 and have been riding off and on since I was 12... You haven't been riding that long, right? Beginners should not be over faced..... Nobody should.. Yes you learn by riding lots of different horses, but not before you are ready for the "job"...


----------



## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

ponyboy said:


> .....
> 
> Part of your instructor's job is to prepare you for the dangers you may encounter while riding. The best way to do that is with a horse who behaves badly but in a predictable way. Now, if you're falling off twice a lesson, then yes you're over mounted. But you absolutely should ride a horse like this one *sooner or later*. Learning to to anything well is never fun _all _of the time.


Don't you think this is too much too soon? 

Heck If I fell off twice each lesson I'd quit..


----------



## Heelsdown (Jun 5, 2011)

Appyt said:


> Don't you think this is too much too soon?
> 
> Heck If I fell off twice each lesson I'd quit..


lol, I think I would too. I wish I could get the cowgirl up attitude and be tough. I feel like a loser at the thought of switching barns. I want to ride this horse so bad. I just feel like I can't and it frustrates me to no end. I would think it was 100% my crappy riding but the other 3 were fantastic. And they weren't dead heads. They challenged me but I won. I just can't connect with this horse. It's like she can't stand me or something. 



> I have had people tell me "you can do it" while I am screaming inside and pure jelly.


 exactly! I get visions of Christopher Reeve in my head riding and that is just not good. Before I was leaving all of my lessons feeling great. I was almost cantering on the other horse. Now I can't even get this mare to trot.

Ponyboy I really do appreciate the advice. I am going to follow this advice for the lesson this Friday. I see what you are saying and you're right. If I only have well behaved horses I won't learn. I know I am learning a lot but I guess I feel like at some point the learning is stopping and fear is taking over. Also, my lessons are in the evening, after summer girl's camp and I'm wondering if this mare is just tired and wants to call it a day.


----------



## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

Appyt said:


> Don't you think this is too much too soon?
> 
> Heck If I fell off twice each lesson I'd quit..


You bold "sooner* or later*" in my post, and then say I'm demanding too much to soon? OK then.


----------



## MySerenity (Jul 18, 2011)

I don't know, I'm more with Appyt. If you are a beginner then it's fair to spend a while getting comfortable and confident first. I'm back into riding with 10 years off and decided to get a green horse due to my budget and my confidence has suffered. Horses can totally feel that from you and I'm guessing this horse is feeding off your insecurities. 

If you tough it out then I'd agree that you have to get tougher with this horse. Will they let you use a crop (I don't mean to beat the horse, but as an aid)? 

In the end, it IS supposed to be fun. So if your not into it, I would find a different barn before your love of riding is affected.


----------



## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

ponyboy said:


> You bold "sooner* or later*" in my post, and then say I'm demanding too much to soon? OK then.


That is my opinion from what the OP has posted from my experiences. We all have our own opinions.. Evidently I felt the later to be better than the sooner.  I didn't say you were demanding anything did I? hmmm. Wasn't my intent.


----------



## serafina (May 5, 2011)

I'll weigh in as a novice adult learner... The lesson horse I've been on all summer has been c.h.a.l.l.e.n.g.i.n.g. Similar kind of stuff. Cuts corners. I learn to make him stop cutting corners, so he swings to the other side and starts trying to corner 4 millimeters from the rail. My knee is more than 4 millimeters wide, so this is Not OK with me. I learn to keep him off the rail. Wants to stop at the gate. Wants to run through his trot when he's facing the barn, then wants to slow to a crawl as soon as he's pointed away from the barn. Then he combines these. Races toward barn and cuts corner, then suckers on to the rail while slowing to a crawl. Drives me up the bloody wall...

...BUT I'm learning incredibly valuable skills the whole time. I'm learning how to handle these various situations - sometimes with more success than others - I never did manage to get a handle on the situation when he'd combine all of his tricks in one circuit around the arena. But I learned what I *should* do, and just as important, I learned what *doesn't* work. My teacher can tell me this stuff until she's blue in the face, but it's going to be impossible until I "get it" and once I've gotten it, it's there for good.

I'm also learning about myself - learning how to keep my patience, learning how to sort out - when problems arise - which part of the problem I created, and which part of the problem is being created by the horse. With this horse, 90% of it was him, and 10% of it was me (that was the teacher's assessment).

Way I see it, that's what horsemanship, or horsewomanship, is about. You build skills, but when push comes to shove, you're going to have to deal with what the horse hands out. A good horse-person is going to be able to take their 10% and get the horse to do what they want...anyway.

I could be riding an "easier" horse, but then I would know how to ride just that one horse, and I'd fall apart as soon as I rode a less easy horse. This way, it may not be "fun" all the way, but it's for sure "learning" all the way, and I'll be able to ride a much wider range of horses because of it.

I guess what I'm saying is, yes, fun is a part of this, but if you only wanted fun, you could just get trail rides instead of taking lessons. More important part, IMO, is the learning. And it might be helpful to your confidence if you focus on what you *are* learning, and what you *have* learned.


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

ponyboy said:


> Part of your instructor's job is to prepare you for the dangers you may encounter while riding. The best way to do that is with a horse who behaves badly but in a predictable way.


Trainer should NOT put a beginner on badly behaving horse. First of all it may break any confidence the rider already has, and for some people it takes _forever _to build a confidence back (in some cases it never returns). Second it's simply dangerous because the inexperienced rider may panic and cause even worse situation. 

My own horses are quite tough mounts. Not everyone can ride them (and they are VERY far from beginner horses if ever will be). However when I ride a lesson horse I want to have that feeling of safety so I could concentrate on learning my aids and position, not to look if I'll seat through "misbehave" or have to constantly keep leg on to make the horse move.


----------



## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

ponyboy said:


> I'm going to be my usual contrarian self and go with your trainer on this one. Yes you're riding for pleasure, but even a good horse can be difficult to ride in certain situations. I remember once I was cantering a horse when she suddenly pulled up because of a stone bruise. If I had never ridden horses that stop suddenly before that, I would have fallen off. What if, when you finally get to buy a horse, the seller misrepresents the horse and you suddenly find yourself riding a nutcase? What if one day the horse you're riding gets stung by a bee and freaks out?
> 
> Part of your instructor's job is to prepare you for the dangers you may encounter while riding. The best way to do that is with a horse who behaves badly but in a predictable way. Now, if you're falling off twice a lesson, then yes you're over mounted. But you absolutely should ride a horse like this one sooner or later. Learning to to anything well is never fun _all _of the time.



So are you posting just to be contrary, or because you actually believe this?

There is time later on to learn about dealing with issues, sounds to me like the op has not yet got fully secure at walk trot and canter. Once she has got a secure seat, then she can start riding horses that will teach her about the other situations. Beginners have beginners horses, especially for *cough* us more mature people, we don't want to be fighting and falling off.

While I think you are right in your assertion that we have to learn to deal with the unexpected, you have to get to a certain level before that becomes a reality.


----------



## Jumpehunter (Jul 29, 2011)

Okay maybe you should ask to be put on an intermediate horse if this is a beginner horse. A TB?? hmm questionable to me.... but anyway Ask Tell Demand. that is how you ride a horse. you can ask them gentle ex: squeeze and cluck or use vocal commands. Tell: Kick each one gets more firm then the last kick. Demand:Get a crop- then do rhythm kick tap . not hit just a nice easy tap then light little smack every now and then. The demand is usually a very last resort and never usually gets to that level 

Ask to be worked on a lunge line for a few lessons just so you can concentrate on getting the beasty moving forward instead of doing a million and 1 things at the same time.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

If I were the instructor, I might try you on a more advanced horse to see if the match were better. It is so dependent on the personality of the student. Some people do need to be left the thrash it out with the challenging school horse and they will emergy stronger riders. Others need to be supported more in the beginning and over horseing them will NOT help in the long run.

Either your instructor has more confidence in you than you do in yourself (for right or for wrong) OR she is not paying the kind of attention to you that $75 an hour warrants. She should be giving you her ALL for that hour, and be very perceptive if you can do it with a little more time and a challenge and a push. If you are saying "I am scared, and uncomfortable and not enjoying this " and you mean it and she doesn't get that, well she is not worth the money.

I wonder if they go through students the same way they go through horses sold; like clockwork.


----------



## Heelsdown (Jun 5, 2011)

Thank you all so much for your advice. I really want to believe that I will emerge from all of this a better rider, lol. I have learned a lot. 
I just miss the other schoolies I had been riding. They did challenge me which I liked. But this mare is just a tough cookie to crack. She just has no respect for me under saddle. 
Someone mentioned a crop...I've never seen anyone use one. I'm sure they do, but I feel funny asking for one. I just don't feel ready to do that at this point. 

I don't want to be a fearful rider. Gosh, I can remember when I was 19, we were trail riding and thought it was just sooooo much fun when we reached the end the and horses would gallop all the way back to the barn, wheeeee! 20 years later, that wouldn't be so much fun, lol. I'd be pretty scared.
I began taking lessons pretty fearful and insecure about starting riding english at almost 40. Then my confidence was building up and now it's crashing down. 

I'm wondering if I should wait until kid's camp is over and I can go back to my morning lesson. I have Wednesdays off and I used to go Wednesday morning. Then kid's summer camp started and there was not enough horses to go around so now I go in the evening. I think my horse is just tired and crabby. I've never been on a horse so un-pleasurable before. 

I also had my mom take video of me this past spring and she did again last week. I looked like a much better rider in the spring. I was posting on the diagonal, going around. I actually looked pretty good. Last week's video makes me look like it was my first time on a horse. 

Well, I'll update after tomorrow. Here's hoping for a good lesson!


----------



## serafina (May 5, 2011)

Don't underestimate the Horse Camp effect! My previous lesson horse was interesting but challenging...until Horse Camp started, and then he was just ****ed off! 

I know this will get better for you - either you'll figure out how to deal with this horse, or this horse will behave better (after Horse Camp), or you'll find another horse. But it will get better! I am 43 and learning to ride (properly, after a lifetime of doing it half-assed). We can take the Long View! You go, girl!!!


----------



## serafina (May 5, 2011)

Also...I do not know if this will work for you, but the way I've dealt with the Horse Camp Effect is by getting my lesson in super-early in the morning. It is so much better for me and for the horse...and it's also cooler at that time of day.


----------



## Skipsfirstspike (Mar 22, 2010)

People take lessons for different reasons.
Some want to eventually become trainers, instructors, top level riders, and would do well with a lot of challenge.
Others want to just learn to sit a quiet horse confidently, having fun while doing so.
Each would probably be dissatisfied with the other's horse.
Tell your trainer what it is that you want, what your personal goals are. 
If you want to ride a quiet, confidence boosting horse for the next month, year, or 10 years, I believe that is your right to do so.
A challenge is good, but one does not want to be set up for failure. Not every rider gels with every horse.
If you are not enjoying yourself, and your trainer won't change things or has no other horse to offer you, I would find a new barn and new trainer.


----------



## Heelsdown (Jun 5, 2011)

I would love to do my lesson early. My trainer doesn't come in until 10 and then it's camp time. If she offered to come in earlier for me, I'd take her up on it. But she didn't so I didn't want to ask. 



> Others want to just learn to sit a quiet horse confidently, having fun while doing so.
> 
> Read more: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding/looking-any-all-advice-93925/page3/#ixzz1U7JfYlxd


an

This is me! I don't have any real goals other than just to become a better rider. I want to continue to improving every month and see myself grow as a rider over the years. But I don't really have a solid time frame. I can really see how fear holds your back more than anything else. Like now, rather than feeling like I can't wait for my lesson, I'm kind of nervous about it.


----------



## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

What good is riding if you don't enjoy it? Sure, a challenge here and there is good for you. But you are PAYING to ride. You should be getting a good feeling from it. Enjoyment, accomplishment, satisfaction. Not nervous apprehension, at least not every ride.

I would try to use another lesson horse. And if they don't have one they feel is good for you, you might have to look elsewhere. I hear a lot about horses leaving. Do they also have horses coming? Could it be that if you waited it out for a few lessons they might have a new horse or two? Maybe you could ask what the odds are of that happening in the near future? Because if you are going to be stuck with a horse you don't like long-term, then that's not really a good deal for you.


----------



## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Heelsdown said:


> I would love to do my lesson early. My trainer doesn't come in until 10 and then it's camp time. If she offered to come in earlier for me, I'd take her up on it. But she didn't so I didn't want to ask.


You're paying her $75 an hour? In my eyes, that gives you some privileges...including ASKING HER if you can have your lesson earlier in the day. It doesn't hurt to ask. The worst she can say is no, and then you're just in the same position you were in to start with.

As far as giving you her all, like tiny mentioned, I completely agree. The trainer at our barn charges $35 an hour and you have her entire attention for that hour. My friend took an English lesson with her one day (my friend rides Western, but was having some balance issues--which ended up being caused by her stirrups being too long, but that's another story) and I decided to watch. The trainer was more than happy to have me observe since I'm going to be taking lessons from her in the near future, but once she was in the arena with my friend, her entire focus was on my friend. I tried to ask a question about something she had asked my friend to do and got ignored, so I saved all my questions til the end. Then she was happy to answer them. What really impressed me was that she took the time to explain what she wanted until my friend got what she was asking for. She listened to my friend's concerns while doing certain exercises and worked to fix or work through them. That, to me, is what a good trainer does. They LISTEN to their students and respond accordingly and appropriately to help that student feel confident in what they're doing. They don't throw them on a horse they can't work with and except them to figure it out (which, honestly, is what it sounds like your trainer has done to you).


----------



## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

Longe lessons, longe lessons, longe lessons. Ask her for them. When I first started riding (at age 7) we were put on the horse and expected to start learning how to walk, trot, and canter. I spent a lot of time standing by the gate, kicking a 30 year old quarter horse who wouldn't move a foot. Later (when I was about 12) I started English lessons with a new instructor who was fairly horrified by my bad habits. She had a horse who was a very nice sensible chap, but a big mover, and I could barely stay on him. I spent about a year on the longe line trying to fix bad habits. 

When I teach beginners, I always longe them. I find the brain can only handle so much new information at a time, and when new riders start out, most find it overwhelming to be expected to find their position, remain in balance, start the process of learning about independent aids, AND stop, steer, and keep the horse moving in whatever gait. Some people more than others. Some students seem naturally balanced on a horse and easily come into sync with its movements, while others struggle, through tension, lack of bodily awareness, or whatever. The strugglers will find their balance and confidence but may require more patience. That means more longe lessons! Many students develop quite a lot of bad habits in the effort to get the horse to do stuff while compensating for their lack of balance. And while you're flailing about, trying to find your seat and coordinate your aids, you're most likely sending all sorts of confusing messages to the horse and the horse is going to be saying, "WTF does she want me to do?" A well-schooled horse who is perhaps not accustomed to the trials of the beginner rider might get quite confused, frustrated, and consequently grumpy. 

So back to the longeing. That gives you the opportunity to work on your position and your balance while someone else controls the horse. Then you're only focusing on one thing -- you -- and leaving the horse aside for the moment. It's hard to learn how to control your body while its being tossed about on a trotting or cantering horse and the longeing is a method of breaking riding down into steps for people. Here, we're just working on you. At the end of the lesson, you go off the longe and we can talk about steering. 

The caveat is that you need a horse who knows his job on the longe line. Longeing doesn't have the same beneficial effect if you have a horse who thinks longe = bucking, play time.


----------



## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

As a further thought.... Does your instructor have much experience with teaching adults?

I have found, generally, that adult learners have far more tension and consequently riding position issues. Now and then you get a terrified, uncoordinated kid and a very balanced, supple adult, but in my experience kids' bodies adapt quicker to the horse's movement than adults'. You also have to approach it differently. With kids, most of the time you can say "Do this" and they do, but adults often cope better if you are explaining why you are telling them to "do this." 

Up to a point.  I had a physics student once who wanted me to give him an explanation using Newtonian physics for why he should sit up straight during a downward transition, rather than sitting well back behind the motion and letting stopping motion of the horse throw him forward to an upright position, which made more sense in his head. I explained that the horse, in theory, needed to lift her forehand and make the transition by shifting the weight to her hind end in order to be in balance, and if the rider was out of balance, that put her onto her forehand. "But she's still slowing down," he said. At that point, I did go with "Just do it" as an answer.


----------



## Heelsdown (Jun 5, 2011)

Well I ended up having a pretty good lesson this week! I have to say I'm really glad that I had 3 other horses for the past 6 months. This horse is more of a intermediate or advanced beginner horse and not a beginner-beginner.

Anyway, I usually love petting and talking to my horse while grooming and tacking. I'll give a treat or two. This week, I was the "boss rider". From the time I got her from her stall to getting her tacked, I acted tough. No pets, no treats, no sweet talk. She tried turning her head as I was grooming her, I pushed her head straight ahead." Don't look at me, don't think of rubbing your head on me, don't think you're getting a treat." I was all business.
I got on her like I had a purpose. Warmed up. Started getting her into a trot and she started her BS throwing her head down. This time, I had my arms tight. I need to go back and look at who said to "BE A TREE!" because that's exactly what I was.
I held those reins tight so she could not throw her head down. So then once she realized her head couldn't go down, she just slowed into a walk. I usually would try squeezing, then one little kick, then a harder kick, then a kick on each side..... this time, she slowed, she got a kick on each side and growly "Hyaaa" sound. No being nice. 
So this works. She's trotting. She tried getting her head down a few more times, tried slowing down a few more times, even tried dragging me to the center twice. I was not going to let her win.
I think by the end, I actually learned a little respect from her. 



> I find the brain can only handle so much new information at a time, and when new riders start out, most find it overwhelming to be expected to find their position, remain in balance, start the process of learning about independent aids, AND stop, steer, and keep the horse moving in whatever gait


Yes, this is still a problem for me!



> And while you're flailing about, trying to find your seat and coordinate your aids, you're most likely sending all sorts of confusing messages to the horse and the horse is going to be saying,


again, yes. The more the horse fights, the busier my hands would get, and in turn the horse is all over the place, which makes me go all over the place in turn. Viscous cycle. 



> As a further thought.... Does your instructor have much experience with teaching adults?


I do see adults, but it seems like their clients are 80% kids. I asked my trainer about adults and she said that most adults either take a few lessons and never come back, or they were riders as kids and they are getting a few lessons to brush up on their skills. So IMO while my trainer is used to adults, I think it's easy to forget just how much nerves and insecurity play a role in a lot of adults. 

So anyway, I feel like I had learned something about disciplining a horse, making it have respect for you and listen to you. I'm happy for it. I think I know how I need to handle this mare. However, as soon as they get a new beginner horse, I'll be ready to move on from this girl. 
I was never so sore after a lesson. That night, every single muscle was killing me. My arms felt like a pulled a muscle. I really felt like a fought a battle. But at least I won! lol. 
Thank you all so much for the tips and advice. It really did help so much.


----------



## gaelgirl (Mar 3, 2011)

That is great! I am so glad that you were able to deal with this, and finally have a good ride on this horse. Sounds like you did everything right, and I am glad that you had a good result.


----------



## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Okay I read the first page and while I do agree with BOTH sides (the trainer's and yours) I do have to say you NEED to have a lesson on the LUNGE LINE where she is controlling your horse (please make sure you know she has the ability to do that safely..) and you can work on your body.. and then with more lunge lessons, eventually you will drive the horse forward with your seat and legs and she'll just be responsible for steering the horse. 

This horse seems to have the "pshhh I'm not doing that" attitude. I don't think she's mean, I just think she's smart. 

When I first begun to lease my horse, I took him for a spin and he was good for me and then the NEXT day, I had a private lunge line lesson, asking him to walk, trot, and stop. The difference from day 1 to day 2 was huge. He knew that I was a beginner BUT I was riding him and he had to listen to me.

Once you have control on lunge line, do a half lesson on the line, and then get off the line and ride her just the same, having the instructor there with a whip nearby to help you out. It gets tiring and your seat gets completely thrown off with constant kicking and nudging and all of these cues to get her just to move forward.

And it definitely isn't fun.. 

But don't be discouraged, and don't give up. Not every horse you meet is "hop on me and your wish is my command with a slice of cake!" As long as you aren't being hurt or scared to the point of not even wanting to SIT on a horse, then you're fine.

Horses are intimidating to ride at first, because you feel you have no control, they have a fast pace, and it's not anything like driving 70mph in a car.. it's a 'fix your balance every stride' kind of ride.

I feel you can do it, and you just need to breathe through it and DEMAND help from the instructor. You are PAYING for the lessons, after all.

If you are still grinding noses with her after working on the line, then I'd say you need to find a horse that works for you, even if that means switching barns.


----------



## Heelsdown (Jun 5, 2011)

> This horse seems to have the "pshhh I'm not doing that" attitude. I don't think she's mean, I just think she's smart.


This is exactly her. She just seems like a burned out lesson horse who knows exactly how to evade doing work. Not at all a pleasure to ride. I'm so glad I got deeper into lessons with those 3 other lesson horses because if I had ridden only her, I probably would have quit after the 3rd lesson.

I'm definitely going to ask to be put on the lounge line. I wonder why my trainer hasn't done that? It seems like something I should have done from the get go. I read about other people doing it but I always felt funny asking her if I could. I don't want her to think I'm trying to usurp her knowledge as a trainer. 

I'm can't wait to see how next week goes. I really feel like I got somewhere with this mare and I hope it continues. I'll take whatever learning I can, though it's really not a fun way to ride. I'm giddy around horses. I want to be able to be sweet and gentle and give them treats. I'm not into the whole tough rider persona that I have to have with her. Though I do realize that being tough is something every rider should know. I've never had a problem with a horse bossing me on the ground. I can handle her attitude no problem. It's under saddle that it becomes more a challenge to say, "Hey I'm the boss" while I'm trying to keep my seat. 

I'm just really hoping that she respects me and every week it's going to be fighting with her. I'm really anxious to try the lounge line. I'm assuming that you don't get dizzy because the circle is big, right? lol. I get dizzy easily.


----------



## brackenbramley (May 29, 2011)

This sounds horrendous!!! you are paying to learn to ride, you are not learning while your confidence gets eaten away. To have only one novice horse is a bit restrictive, as in my opinion when you are learning a variety of horses is a must. Any horse can be difficult and we all must be challenged, but i really think find a great yard with a good instructor and an interesting variety of horses if you do not find this you can always go back!!! If she is the only novice horse in the yard she is probably really fed up!! (no offence at all but not all beginners are as considerate as you seem ) and yes these horses do become very dead to the leg and rein sadly. Riding is amazing and FUN i think you could get a much better experience if you were up for a change of venue. Remember horses are just like humans we have personailty clashes too, let us know how you get on  remember have fun though x


----------



## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Well it's sometimes sad to admit but horses aren't looking for cuddle buddies, they are looking for leaders. On the ground, and in the saddle.

But you can still have fun being the one in charge, just don't let them push you around but don't walk all over them either. It's a partnership, just you call the shots 

You DEFINITELY surprised her with your "I'm not taking your silly games" attitude, as she quickly changed her tune. That is a BRILLIANT first step. Don't let her take you backwards.. keep becoming more confident by being more direct. Tell her what you want, and if she acts up, then give her a chance to fix it but keep her moving forward.

Good luck, dear! 

My trainer tells me "sometimes the hardest rides are the best rides"


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Congrats Heelsdown! So fun to read your reports. Can't wait for the next one.


----------



## brandilion (Aug 23, 2010)

kitten_Val said:


> Trainer should NOT put a beginner on badly behaving horse. First of all it may break any confidence the rider already has, and for some people it takes _forever _to build a confidence back (in some cases it never returns). Second it's simply dangerous because the inexperienced rider may panic and cause even worse situation. QUOTE]
> 
> Well said, Kitten.
> 
> Do not continue to "train" this horse. I don't think the "why" of her behavior is all that important. Request another horse...for a BEGINNER. Until you get more confidence, you need a stable, predictable horse. If they truly don't have another horse for you to ride, take lessons elsewhere. Every lesson (or almost every lesson) should be a step forward. For now, stretch yourself, but don't ride a horse that frustrates and scares you.


----------



## Heelsdown (Jun 5, 2011)

Thank you all so much for the advice and the empathy! 

I had another lesson on Wednesday of this week. I had bought a package of 8 lessons and I'm only 5 into the package so for now, I'm stuck at this barn with this horse.
This past week was another great week! It's amazing how different this mare is now that she respects me more. She had never been a cuddly horse before. My other 2 lesson horses were total lovebugs and the 3rd horse while not as snuggly, was still friendly. This mare wasn't very friendly at all. Well after my tough attitude with her last week, she actually tried to get snuggly with me this week. She stuck her nose in the crook of my arm and nuzzled me. Totally different horse on the ground. 
While riding, she still tried to pull her tricks but she tried them less hard and less often. She tried to throw her head down but not near as hard as the week before. It's like she's realizing I'm not going to take her crap. 
She still will not do a consistent trot. She trots and slows, trots and slows. It's very frustrating. 
BUT I can't believe how much better my balance is. I had mentioned before how every time she'd slow or stop I felt like I was going to go flying over her head. This week, I never felt that. I kept my seat no problem. As soon as she slowed, I sat with ease as opposed to before where it felt like my body kept going.

So while my riding itself hasn't progressed, my ability to discipline and my balance has improved greatly! So for that, I'm happy. 
I do feel sorry for this horse being the only beginner horse they have. The others are ponies so any kid that's more than 5 feet tall ends up riding this mare. So all the feet swinging, reins yanking has just deadend her to touch completely. It's very hard to get and keep her attention. 
So I do feel so much better than when I first posted. Definitely something to be said about learning discipline, behavior and balance. It's amazing how good of a rider you can think you are becoming, only to hop on a horse that makes you look like it's your first day on a saddle! lol
Thanks again for all of the advice! My trainer is helpful but sometimes you just need advice from the outside.


----------



## ChristophersCanter (Aug 13, 2011)

thats great to hear!  if you've gotten a lot more respect in 1 or 2 lessons, in 3 it should be so much better!! keep me posted on how everything goes!


----------



## sophiekennykins (Aug 17, 2011)

PLEASE show this so called 'instructor' what ur made of!! You dont deserve any of her ways. Tell me how you get on  xxxxxx


----------



## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

sounds like your riding IS improving. Improved balance is improved riding!!! You GO girl!!!

My balance is improving and so I feel my riding is improving....so we are both on the same track.


----------



## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

See, I knew you could do it  She just needed you to step up and not take her mareish ways.

Developing balance is one of the most important concepts of riding.. since you use it in everything. You being balanced also helps your horse to be balanced, which will in turn help with that inconsistent trot. Since she's a beginner's horse (or so she was labeled) she may not have all the balance that a more advanced horse would with more seasoned and intermediate riders.

You're helping her and she's helping you. That's how it should be. See what a difference respect can make?


----------



## ForeverHawk (Aug 19, 2011)

I'm not sure whether you still ride the horse, but any ways, when a horse goes to the middle of the school or falls through the inside shoulder, just lift your inside hand and rein up a bit, to block the horses shoulder, whilst sending an impulse down the outside rein every few strides. I have found that this works well, just dont overdo it by putting your hand up more that a couple of cm, and dont cross your hand over the horses neck. Hope i helped


----------

