# I hate my horse today



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

She's 7. It's normal for them to be pretty frustrating around that age!

Can you park it in the pasture open with food in it? Have you tried driving around the block then home (short ride no stops?)

I think she needs more miles. You can try a calming supplement/light sedative. But something like pawing I would likely just ignore.

I watched a neat CA video awhile ago. I don't usually do the BNTs but really liked the way he handled the horse.

When she was loading nicely do you let her just stand there and eat? Or do you promptly unload?


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

Radical method: Tranq her until she doesn't give a **** about anything anymore, take her for a long ride. Do this regularly, slowly lowering the dose of the tranquilizer. It seems she needs to learn that the moving trailer won't hurt her, but she's too wound up to make that observation. If you tune down the flight-or-fight response to a dull nervousness, maybe she'll understand that it's no big deal.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

^While I would be leary about heavy tranq'ing I do agree with the concept...esp the "needs to figure it out but is too wound up too"


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## KLJcowgirl (Oct 13, 2015)

I feel your pain! My gelding is pretty bad with the trailer and has brought me to tears quite a few times over the years. But we've been able to mostly over come those issues (still takes 2 or 3 tries to get in) with the help of a shipping helmet (he always hits his head somehow in the trailer, plus this has also helped with his rushing out of the trailer) and a buddy (loads the first time if buddy goes first). I know that doesn't really help you, but you may figure something out one day! It took me 14 years... 

I mostly wanted to say, I'm glad I'm not the only one who considers a bullet or a hammer sometimes... I NEVER could, but boy, are there times it would be easier! I was ready to turn my Miss May into a pony burger last Saturday at the horse show. I love that little fart... but she really pushed her limits. Grrrr those darn animals. 

Just take a deep breath and repeat "I love you, I love you, I love you, I swear I do" while pulling your hair haha :dance-smiley05:


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Maybe this won't help, but when we had a trailer hater we put her in a dry lot with water and hay in the trailer (parked in the lot) Took her two days to go in and drink but after that she was fine.


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

Have you tried any other types of trailers?


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Yogiwick said:


> She's 7. It's normal for them to be pretty frustrating around that age!
> Can you park it in the pasture open with food in it?


answers in red...

No. How I wish. I have no place to keep a horse, so the pasture is my neighbor"s, she is not willing to let me park a trailer there. 

Have you tried driving around the block then home (short ride no stops?)

I live in the mountains and there are no blocks, just little windy roads with no place to turn around . . . but I wonder if she wouldn't just think -- keep pawing and being a nervous twit and I get to get out real soon!"

I think she needs more miles. 

I wonder how many more miles she needs? I've probably trailered her between twenty and thirty times? Mostly around an hour to two hours one way, a few times between three and four hours one way. She does sometimes settle down and relax, but then she'll get agitated again, seemingly for no reason. She always throws a perfect fit once we're off the freeway and headed home.

You can try a calming supplement/light sedative. But something like pawing I would likely just ignore. 

I forgot, I did try a calming supplement. Did not calm. I have not tried a sedative. I try hard to ignore the pawing. I do alternate-nostril yogic breathing. I turn the radio up really loud. It doesn't really help. When I get to my destination I am usually only a little less agitated than she is.

I watched a neat CA video awhile ago. I don't usually do the BNTs but really liked the way he handled the horse.

When she was loading nicely do you let her just stand there and eat? Or do you promptly unload?

Oh god yes. The whole point was to get her inside and then let her eat. Which she would do, as long as the butt bars were down. Once she feels 'locked in', her agitation just increases, and I can't get her to settle down, even just parked in the lot.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

evilamc said:


> Have you tried any other types of trailers?


She's been in a stock trailer riding slant. She does better -- loads easier in a step up, and the only time I was in the truck hauling her, she settled down well, with the other horse nearby. Was restless for ten minutes or so -- but didn't paw, she was loose -- and then settled down for the rest of the half hour trip. Riding alone in a slant load tied, she pawed, was the report. She was four then. 

I have to say I am rather unwilling to sell my very nice trailer (it's worth about $11k although I didn't pay that) because my horse won't settle in it, loose or tied. And there's no guarantee she'll magically transform herself if I trade it in for a slant. Of course I AM at my wits' end.


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## seabiscuit91 (Mar 30, 2017)

Have you ever tried in an angle load? 
I've met a few horses that will not get in a straight load, and seem to be absolutely fine in an angle load float, not sure if it's because it's bigger, wider, on a slight angle who knows. 
Be worth trying if you know someone who has one.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

"
Have you tried driving around the block then home (short ride no stops?)

I live in the mountains and there are no blocks, just little windy roads with no place to turn around . . . but I wonder if she wouldn't just think -- keep pawing and being a nervous twit and I get to get out real soon!"

I think she needs more miles. 

I wonder how many more miles she needs? I've probably trailered her between twenty and thirty times? Mostly around an hour to two hours one way, a few times between three and four hours one way. She does sometimes settle down and relax, but then she'll get agitated again, seemingly for no reason. She always throws a perfect fit once we're off the freeway and headed home."

Those are pretty big trips for a young horse. I would be stressed out too. I definitely understand not having "blocks" which is why I specified short ride with no stops... I would try finding a way to do this. I think it would help. Get her happy to load then try it. Heck you could even do super baby steps and drive 50 feet then stop.

Have you tried waiting out her fit? I know it could take a bit but I would do the above and try to make it a non event.


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## seabiscuit91 (Mar 30, 2017)

Oh sorry just saw your reply to the above!


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

Oh, @Avna, do I feel for you! I have walked in your shoes! I almost sold my mare Isabeau twice, and hated her more times than that. I tried sedatives and calming supplements as well, didn't work in the slightest. I tried everything you can imagine. One thing that Isabeau does not do is refuse to load. She walks right in the trailer, but once she's in, it is as if some panic attack takes over. She gets extremely agitated and kicks the living snot out of my trailer. It is ruined, and I don't get it repaired until I am certain we are done with the kicking. Also, she sweats so much, it looks like I put a hose in the trailer.

I loaded her every single day (and still am) for 4 years. Loading her for me is much easier than it is for you because the trailer is 50 feet from where she eats.

I had the idea that she might have ulcers and palpated her for ulcers, as per the video that "elle" put up. According to that amateur evaluation, she did have ulcers, so I treated her for ulcers. Also, I thought she might have ulcers because originally she didn't kick in the trailer. She was a little nervous but trailered OK. She got worse the more I trailered her. Her phobia was/is deeply ingrained so I knew that even if her stomach didn't hurt while being trailered, she would be sure that it was going to. She tends to react to past pain for much longer than many of my other horses. Even tomorrow, when I am going to trailer her to San Felasco to ride with @4horses, she will get 7 ranitidine pills crushed into a mashed banana to prevent stomach acid.

I hope with time your mare will improve. It took me 4 years of constant work. Everyone gave me a hard time about how much work I put into getting her to trailer calmly. I trailer her with no rope at all, and she does spin in the trailer, but that is far better than kicking. And she really is finally getting much better. I really "get" about crying and hating her. You love her so much that you hate how she is hurting you.


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

Avna said:


> She's been in a stock trailer riding slant. She does better -- loads easier in a step up, and the only time I was in the truck hauling her, she settled down well, with the other horse nearby. Was restless for ten minutes or so -- but didn't paw, she was loose -- and then settled down for the rest of the half hour trip. Riding alone in a slant load tied, she pawed, was the report. She was four then.
> 
> I have to say I am rather unwilling to sell my very nice trailer (it's worth about $11k although I didn't pay that) because my horse won't settle in it, loose or tied. And there's no guarantee she'll magically transform herself if I trade it in for a slant. Of course I AM at my wits' end.


I get that its a nice trailer but maybe she hears the road noises more or feels it more and thats what is making her uncomfortable? Maybe see if someone could trade trailers with you just for a few weeks even to really test out the theory?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

is it possible for her to ride facing backwards? there must be something about the light weightness of the Brenderup that makes riding uncomfortable. you may try having her face backwards. I cannot say why, but some horses feel more stable that way.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Yogiwick said:


> "
> Have you tried driving around the block then home (short ride no stops?)
> 
> I live in the mountains and there are no blocks, just little windy roads with no place to turn around . . . but I wonder if she wouldn't just think -- keep pawing and being a nervous twit and I get to get out real soon!"
> ...


She used to do the same thing if I just tied her to the grooming post. Paw, sweat, circle the post continually. I used to try to wait her out. An hour wasn't long enough. Neither was two hours. And since it is not on my property, and right on a road (though a very small one), I couldn't leave her there. The only thing that really helped her (helps her now when she regresses), is to very calmly make her stand still "in neutral" with even her head aligned straight. Very very calmly, correcting every single movement no matter how slight. It used to take up to thirty minutes, now it's only about five. Nope, can't lift your foot, nope, can't look at that, nope, nope, nope. And she gets it, and just stops being twitchy. 

But I can't do that in the trailer, because I can't be in the trailer with her. As it is, I think her own agitation makes her more agitated, until she's a wringing wet mess.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

tinyliny said:


> is it possible for her to ride facing backwards? there must be something about the light weightness of the Brenderup that makes riding uncomfortable. you may try having her face backwards. I cannot say why, but some horses feel more stable that way.


When she rode loose she mainly rode backwards, looking out the rear door -- when she stood still. It did not calm her down though. People were afraid she would jump out (one lady flagged me down on the freeway!) but she never offered to. She is of course a pony-sized horse riding in a warmblood trailer .... there have been times I thought, go ahead and jump! 

I'm a bad mom.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

I agree with some of the others that there _may_ well be _something_ about the trailer that is causing your problem. We have a typical 2 horse, step up stock/combo trailer, and one of our mares was always a bit difficult to load (even though she would). I did a lot of road riding and always noticed that she preferred the shoulder to the asphalt, and was a little more reluctant when it was wet and "deep black". Thinking about it one day, since we have black mats in the trailer, I dumped a bag of wood shavings in the trailer to cover the mats. Guess what? She walked right in and haven't had a problem since when putting shavings down. For some reason, she just doesn't feel as comfortable walking across very black surfaces.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

Before you spend money buying a new trailer, I can tell you that we tried my mare Isabeau in two different trailers as well as mine. She kicked the cr#p out of those trailers too--quite embarrassing as it lowers the value of the trailer by quite a lot!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Firstly, to Yogi, 7yo is an age for frustration too?? I haven't noticed - they're usually pretty well trained & calm by that age IME - or not, or loony, but I haven't noticed it's about being 7yo. ;-)

To Avna, I SO sympathise with you! Before I understood much about training, I had SO much of an issue with trailering, both with a 'nuh, don't wanna!' type & a fearful horse. Unlike you, who while it's a big hassle, you CAN do sessions daily if you want, I also didn't have my own trailer, so had to hire one - which I couldn't afford to do weekly, let alone more often. And I used to get SO mad & sad about it... which of course didn't help with either horse. IF I had at least a couple others to help me, we could manage to force a horse into a trailer, so I could take him somewhere, but no one I knew then had any different ideas aside from force him in & slam the door as quick as. I had no hope of ever getting the horse in when I was on my own. 

Then I discovered Parelli(this was about 25yrs ago). Then I started studying behavioural psych. Then I started clicker training. With a 'combo approach', I was finally able to work stuff out & become effective.



Avna said:


> Yes, I genuinely hate her, and fantasize hitting her with a hammer between the ears.


I once asked someone to borrow a mash hammer, so I could knock some sense into my horse & they berated me for 10 minutes & threatened to call RSPCA! :icon_rolleyes: Some have no sense of irony!



> She has a window in front, and on the side.


Just do beware, that if she's that worried about being in there, that if windows are big enough for her to *think* she has a chance escaping through, there are bars across them - seen some bad emergencies from horses trying to escape thru trailer windows & 'escape doors'.



> * spending three months hooking up the trailer, pulling it out, and bringing her the quarter mile from her pasture to the trailer to practice loading her EVERY DAY until she would walk in by herself. I didn't drive anywhere. Just as soon as I took her out on the road, it was a battle getting her in, just like before.


I think perhaps the 'going somewhere' was too abrupt - she'd just gained some fragile trust in walking in & out, but then she was shut in it's belly & it started rumbling... 

You mention later she's OK so long as the butt bar isn't across. So once she was walking in & out happily, then I'd work on walking her in, closing & immediately opening the butt bar... then closing & opening the tailgate. Get her good with those things *before* going further. & then get her good at being in there & starting the car. Then good at driving to the end of the drive only... etc. If you have no 'block' to go round, you can always drive to the end of the driveway & reverse back again. 

Yes, very tedious, and IME not usually necessary to do it in such baby steps if starting a horse from scratch, but it seems that your horse has some serious fear, which has unfortunately been reinforced with her experiences, so I think it's very important to do things in as tiny steps as possible, getting her comfortable with every step - in such a way as she doesn't need/practice the Bad emotions/associations/reactions any more, and gets as much practice/reinforcement at Good emotions/associations/behaviour as possible.



> * drive with excruciating care and slowness. Has no discernable effect.


All the things you mention, aside from the 'wasted' 3 months seem to involve having her trapped in the trailer & probably driving somewhere. It doesn't sound like she's ever got up to the point where she was confident being locked in, let alone taking her anywhere yet.



> So today I put the divider back in, loaded the pony, and tried to load her. Hoping having a friend in the trailer would be the trick. No way would she go in, with coaxing, leading, driving, nothing. If I put pressure on her from behind she would rear rather than go forward. My instructor happened to be around, not normally the case, so I asked her to help. She flagged her from behind and I controlled her head and she went in. Then before I could get her head tied,


Firstly, mind her emotions don't 'rub off' on the pony & make him nervous of the trailer, so you have 2 that won't load.

So... as your mare is obviously very frightened of the experience, I don't think trying to force her in is at all helpful. That would only further confirm to her there's a reason to fear the trailer - and by association, fear YOU, when near the trailer. I'd save pressuring her & flagging & the likes, for horses who say 'Nuh! Don't wanna!' without any real fear. 

For her, lots of repetition in getting reinforced for whatever she CAN give you, *without asking for so much that it pushes her into unthinking reactivity. And once I got her in, I'd send her right back out again, before it got too much. I certainly wouldn't contemplate tying her in there, until she's confident standing there for a time. 

Although I do use a very long rope just looped around the tie ring, so I can teach them to feel 'tied' in there without a lot of pressure - they CAN back out if they feel the need, but I've also got the end of the rope to prevent them turning & getting jammed if they need out.



> So I bolted it back in place, tied her head, and let her stand in the trailer for 20 minutes


I would expect doing that will only have made the next time worse I'm afraid. :| I suspect a horse like this, what with all her previous experiences & how stressed she obviously gets, you will have to start back at the very basics & progress in real baby steps. I'd use a calming supp, to help her stay relaxed, but realise that this is not going to allow you to 'short cut' with any real improvement either.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Just here to sympathize. I know the feeling. Harley is now loading like a dream, so there is hope, but with Kodak, things ended badly, and I didn't want to go further because she was going to hurt herself, or someone else. It's no fun. Sorry you have to deal with this.

But to be fair to them, being loaded into an unstable box and driven down the road makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I am blown away anytime a horse accepts this willingly. I do hope this gets resolved for you somehow, but I just want to offer my empathy. You tried so hard, I know how frustrating it is.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Avna said:


> When she rode loose she mainly rode backwards, looking out the rear door -- when she stood still. It did not calm her down though. People were afraid she would jump out (one lady flagged me down on the freeway!) but she never offered to. She is of course a pony-sized horse riding in a warmblood trailer .... there have been times I thought, go ahead and jump! .


Like a little Bethlehem donkey in a normal horse float?? I'm glad that's been my only experience with one trying to jump out, and my husband was home, so we could manhandle him back into the float when he was stuck over the tailgate!! He wasn't badly injured, but I've seen a few who were, being left(or becoming loose) in a trailer!! So as with windows, I'd ensure that if the horse was loose/facing backwards, there was a barrier to prevent them even trying. 

Also consider trailer design & balance when letting a horse ride backwards - they're often not balanced for all the weight on/behind the wheels, and can lift up at the front! When I was a 'Parelli teen' I was told by an instructor to let my horse ride loose in the double straight load I'd hired... Thankfully this was the 'Don't wanna!' boy & he wasn't actually afraid & wanting to escape, but when he turned around & stuck his head out the back, the hitch coming up actually raised the back of my car slightly!


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

loosie said:


> Firstly, to Yogi, 7yo is an age for frustration too?? I haven't noticed - they're usually pretty well trained & calm by that age IME - or not, or loony, but I haven't noticed it's about being 7yo. ;-)
> 
> To Avna, I SO sympathise with you! Before I understood much about training, I had SO much of an issue with trailering, both with a 'nuh, don't wanna!' type & a fearful horse. Unlike you, who while it's a big hassle, you CAN do sessions daily if you want, I also didn't have my own trailer, so had to hire one - which I couldn't afford to do weekly, let alone more often. And I used to get SO mad & sad about it... which of course didn't help with either horse. IF I had at least a couple others to help me, we could manage to force a horse into a trailer, so I could take him somewhere, but no one I knew then had any different ideas aside from force him in & slam the door as quick as. I had no hope of ever getting the horse in when I was on my own.
> 
> ...


I am only too convinced you are right, Loosie. But what this means is that I can't go anywhere at all for months more, even if I am successful, and I have no confidence I can be. I am absolutely stuck here, facing day after day after day of monotonous practice with tiny increments of progress and lots of backward steps, just like before. Just getting the trailer set up, and walking the horse to the trailer, and then doing everything in reverse, without adding in the actual training part, is more than an hour every single time. And in the not-my-driveway where I have to do this work, there are people coming and going and wanting that space and blocking my ability to move, all the time. I did that for MONTHS and right now, thinking about doing it all over again -- with the very real likelihood that just as soon as I turn the ignition key I've washed away all that work, makes me cry. I just can't face it again right now. I do not have the strength.

And by the way, I did do all those incremental steps that you mention. Every single one. I do understand about training. I've trained many, many animals. I haven't given up on very many, either. I tried clicker on her, I tried flagging, I tried coaxing with food, I tried lunging, I tried EVERYTHING ANYONE EVER TOLD ME ABOUT AND A LOT OF THINGS I MADE UP. I've tried and tried and tried. I've failed.

The problem with trailer training is that isn't like, yay, she picked up her left lead today, or she really extended her trot, or she walked right past that barking dog. Because riding is a continual work of progression, with a thousand little triumphs along the way. But trailering is just one thing: did they load? Did they not destroy your trailer or themselves going there? Will they load again? That's it. That's all. There are no incremental triumphs. At least, not for me. Because I know that they can all be flushed down the toilet in one second and I'll have to start all over again. That's not a triumph. I've built nothing with her. 

With trailering, you just want to go somewhere to do something. You have signed up for the clinic (I have a two day clinic coming up in a couple of weeks). You have friends waiting at the trailhead. People are asking, are you coming? And you have to say, no, my horse won't load in the trailer, so I can't. I can't do anything at all. 

And all the time you are working on the trailer training, you can't ride anywhere at all. You are absolutely stuck. No riding, period, except in a tiny dressage arena, around and around. That's it. It's the end of summer soon and it will be cold and wet and trails will close. Sorry, you'll have to wait until next year to ride your horse now. All because she won't ride in the trailer. 

I do feel like selling her. But much more, I feel like bludgeoning her to death.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

Another, somewhat drastic, idea: Clinton Anderson would probably take away her oxygen privileges as soon as she turned away from the trailer, and only let her have respite near it. If that method is successful, pretty soon your horse will think, "I better hang out near that trailer, or I'll be miserable!" when you show up with the trailer. 

Ultimately, the decision to go in has to be hers, because I agree that a nervous horse in a locked trailer is asking for a disaster, but it may be time to suggest to her that seeking the trailer's proximity is, if not the best possible, then at least the least miserable strategy for her. After all, *you know* perfectly well that the trailer won't hurt her, so trust will not be violated.

Then you can send her back and forth between you and the open trailer until she huffs and puffs, letting her rest only right in front of it. If she wiggles away, back to running back and forth! Once you can send her across and she seems relaxed right in front, maybe you can start to angle her direction so she starts hitting the ramp, and finally you send her in. When she does come to rest where you want her to, give her some extra loving to double up on the release you just gave her. 

Then you remain at that stage for as long as it takes - *loosie* basically outlined the "small increments" approach in the post you quoted.

If I should be quite honest, I have a feeling that you are leaning more towards cracking this conundrum than selling her. It'd be quite the feather in your cap if you succeeded...


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

mmshiro said:


> Another, somewhat drastic, idea: Clinton Anderson would probably take away her oxygen privileges as soon as she turned away from the trailer, and only let her have respite near it. If that method is successful, pretty soon your horse will think, "I better hang out near that trailer, or I'll be miserable!" when you show up with the trailer.
> 
> Ultimately, the decision to go in has to be hers, because I agree that a nervous horse in a locked trailer is asking for a disaster, but it may be time to suggest to her that seeking the trailer's proximity is, if not the best possible, then at least the least miserable strategy for her. After all, *you know* perfectly well that the trailer won't hurt her, so trust will not be violated.
> 
> ...


What you suggest was what I did after I spent several weeks getting her to simply approach the trailer, sniff, walk up to it, and put her feet on the ramp. I did this with extreme calmness and never insisted on anything. I got her to walk in for a treat, but then she'd instantly back out. I was hoping to build her trust and a sense of relaxation around the trailer but that only went so far. The "only resting place is the trailer" approach was the next step. I worked on that for quite some time. I can load her with that technique fairly well, although it now takes longer and longer, because -- and here's the big problem -- she HATES riding in the trailer, so as long as the next step is taking a ride, nothing I do to make her load better is going to last more than one ride. A month of loading lessons, one ride, and we're right at the bottom again, or even farther down. Because riding in the trailer is a punishment for her. Loading is simply a road to horrible. Why should she take it? 

I could fix her loading problem, because I did it once and I know I could do it again. I cannot fix the riding problem. If she didn't mind riding, once she was in, I wouldn't be in this despair.


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

How about a REALLY long road trip? So long that she falls asleep? You might have to wear headphones the entire way. When we moved my then 4-year-old from Michigan to Kansas, the trip took about 16 hours. It was one heck of a trip, too. My husband was pulling her and I was driving behind him pulling a u-haul. We went through cities, got stuck in construction, went through the WORST thunder storm. I swear I saw lightning strike that trailer!! She wasn't horrid in the trailer before - but she loads like a dream now. She's five, and a real handful. Trailering is the only thing she dependably does well LOL. 

I also like the idea of sedating her, loading her, and driving around while she slowly wakes up.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

newtrailriders said:


> How about a REALLY long road trip? So long that she falls asleep? You might have to wear headphones the entire way. When we moved my then 4-year-old from Michigan to Kansas, the trip took about 16 hours. It was one heck of a trip, too. My husband was pulling her and I was driving behind him pulling a u-haul. We went through cities, got stuck in construction, went through the WORST thunder storm. I swear I saw lightning strike that trailer!! She wasn't horrid in the trailer before - but she loads like a dream now. She's five, and a real handful. Trailering is the only thing she dependably does well LOL.
> 
> I also like the idea of sedating her, loading her, and driving around while she slowly wakes up.


tempting.


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## GracielaGata (Jan 14, 2012)

newtrailriders said:


> How about a REALLY long road trip? So long that she falls asleep? You might have to wear headphones the entire way. When we moved my then 4-year-old from Michigan to Kansas, the trip took about 16 hours. It was one heck of a trip, too. My husband was pulling her and I was driving behind him pulling a u-haul. We went through cities, got stuck in construction, went through the WORST thunder storm. I swear I saw lightning strike that trailer!! She wasn't horrid in the trailer before - but she loads like a dream now. She's five, and a real handful. Trailering is the only thing she dependably does well LOL.
> 
> I also like the idea of sedating her, loading her, and driving around while she slowly wakes up.


I don't have anything to add except that this is how my horse came to load like a dream as well. She wasn't bad at it when I bought her as a just coming 3 year old. But not much experience- 3 or 4 short trailerings? Then 6 months later we moved cross country and I had her shipped. They took 9 days and offloaded every night. They said she was one of the best horses they had ever transported, especially for an inexperienced 3 year old. She also used to paw, but stopped on that trip. 
Of my 3 she is by far the easiest, and will load anyway on or off that is asked of her. 

Your experience and mine too, makes me think that sedating and a long trip might help. 

Good luck!


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

My sympathies. My mare used to get nervous in the trailer too. She would tear the lead out of your hands and run off (her old trick for getting out of anything she doesn't want to do). One time, she freaked out and backed under a rubber butt bar, pulling a patch of hair on her back clean off down to the skin, right where the saddle sits too.

Now, she is a veteran. A dream in the trailer, truly. While she may be a handful on the ground outside the trailer, inside she is happy as can be and she loads/unloads great. Eats, drinks water even, I couldn't ask for better.

She really mellowed out around 11 years old. So really I've only had a couple really great years with her, but I am finally enjoying her! I don't know if it is the age or the miles they've been by the time they are 10-11, but boy is she a different horse now.

My suggestion, although I know you don't want to sell your lovely trailer and I sympathize, as I love my mom's rig which is just like yours; my suggestion is a beat up but functional stock trailer. It's what they transport wild horses in. You can trailer her loose in the stock box and let her spin and paw to her hearts content. I would probably bandage her legs, put the head bumper on, and whatever else safety things you can think of. Then take her on a LOOOOOONG trip. At least 4 ish hours each way. Go horse camping, you are in a fabulous state to do that.

You might be able to pick up an old stock trailer for between 2000-4000. Sure, another expense, but it would save your trailer. Maybe you could rent an old beat up stock trailer from somebody? Just make sure its still mechanically sound.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

I've had this problem, and my option for getting from Montana back to Iowa was either to sell the horse, ride her 1700 miles, or just haul her. She hated two-horse trailers, so I sold that and bought a 3-horse stock trailer that was built of steel, heavy, and would put up with her pawing and fretting without damage.

I put it in the arena and did the whole 'work away from it, rest near it' thing until she'd relax next to it, then we worked on loading. She did ok with that-- the main point was showing her that while it rattled and banged around more than the other trailer, it wouldn't hurt her. 

Next day I loaded her, fed her in the trailer, and backed her out.

Day after, I loaded her and headed home. She pawed and banged and fretted for about six hours-- every time I'd think she'd stopped, she'd start up again. We stopped for gas and rest and she stood pretty nicely, had a rest, ate some hay, had a drink. Started off again, and the banging started up--- for about 20 miles. Then she rode well. After that, I untied her and let her find her own position-- she turned her butt into a front corner and rode in a backward slant for the rest of the way. I hauled her essentially straight through the 24-hour trip because I didn't want to have to reload her if we stopped, and she could move around and get her head down, so she did fine. I would recommend tying on mountain roads if it's a bumper hitch-- a horse suddenly spinning can unbalance your rig with disastrous results. I will haul loose sometimes on a flat road, or with a gooseneck.

Problem solved. I never had any trouble loading or hauling her again, but she would only haul in a slant or stock. I still have that beast of a trailer, and in spite of a few dents and some minor surface rust, horses prefer it over a fancier trailer 9 times out of 10. I have heard of more than one horse that hated a Brenderup and hauled fine in something else, so it's something to look into. 

I wish you luck with your mare. I have a gelding right now that I've threatened to turn into glue more than once.....


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## Light (Mar 4, 2012)

Probably not legal, but can you have a friend drive your truck and trailer while you stand in the back. Without the horse of course, just by yourself. See what it is like back there when it is moving.


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## horseylover1_1 (Feb 13, 2008)

Not sure if this would help or not, but I would try (assuming there is space in the trailer) to stand in there with her and love on her for a long time. I'm just thinking of it from a horses perspective that hates a trailer... "mom makes me go into this awful box and just leaves me there without her." If she trusts you (which I'm sure she does) then she would probably benefit from having you in there with her. Idk, it's probably a stretch, but if you have exhausted other resources it may help. 

I will say that I would be VERY careful that she doesn't associate you loving on her with her acting foolish. And again, this is under the assumption that you can do this safely.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

horseylover1_1 said:


> Not sure if this would help or not, but I would try (assuming there is space in the trailer) to stand in there with her and love on her for a long time. I'm just thinking of it from a horses perspective that hates a trailer... "mom makes me go into this awful box and just leaves me there without her." If she trusts you (which I'm sure she does) then she would probably benefit from having you in there with her. Idk, it's probably a stretch, but if you have exhausted other resources it may help.
> 
> I will say that I would be VERY careful that she doesn't associate you loving on her with her acting foolish. And again, this is under the assumption that you can do this safely.


Yes, I have done this. She will settle down and then as soon as I tiptoe away, she's head up and stamping. If I could ride with her, she'd probably be okay . . .


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## horseylover1_1 (Feb 13, 2008)

I will say that my filly acted like a total nutcase when she was trailered 3 hours from her original home to mine. So bad that she cut her face up, I thought we'd never get her home. They (original owners) aced her. Which scared me because too much sedation when trailering is obviously dangerous. But she hasn't had an issue with the trailer since.


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## joegyps (Aug 19, 2017)

i completely understand where you are coming from. I faced difficulties loading my girl and tried literally everything with no results for months. I recently HAD to move her and after months of no luck i felt completely overwhelmed. Fortunately we had to move a few head of cattle on an older style cattle truck (that requires a ramp to unload) and she literally walked straight up the ramp onto the truck. Although she did kick out a couple times after loading, she did settle quickly and was able to travel the 3 hour journey happily. Then to unload simply walked straight down the ramp in a calm manner. Although this doesn't solve your problem, it gives some hope that there is always a solution, even if it isn't conventional.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Never having had a trailering problem with horses we raised, just taking it for granted that they will load, I can only guess that a horse who is difficult to load , hates going in a trailer, must have had a bad past experience, or something is wrong with that particular trailer.
I often will catch rides with my son or my friend, versus taking my own trailer out west, and my horses load in their trailers, just as easily as in mine
They stand there tied, sometimes beside a horse they do not know, and haul fine. 
The only way I get to trails, is if I haul, as I am surrounded by farm land, not forestry and not mountains-I have to haul to get there
We all have gooseneck angle haul trailers, and no dividers.
The roads we haul on, are anything but a smooth ride! Gravel, lots of up and down, and often wash board effect, depending on when last graded

THus, I have to ask for some more info, in order to be any possible help
Was she this way when you bought her, or did she gradually get bad, hauling in your trailer?
Does she now stand tied patiently , somewhere other then in the trailer?

If you tie her outside of the trailer, to saddle, or after a ride,while you perhaps haul out those lawn chairs, sit and relax for awhile , visiting with a friend?
I never tie hay nets in the trailer, but I will tie one outside of it, after a long ride, letting my horse relax before the haul home

Besides the horses we raised, we have bought quite a few ,and being hauled is just an accepted fact of life for all of them, If not hauled to trail rides, they are hauled in winter to indoor arenas. None are ever taught specifically to load in a trailer, any more then into a barn or anywhere else
THus< I sure would be interested in knowing her past history, if you have it, and would be open to perhaps at least trying to see if she would be okay in aslant load goose neck, no divider. I have never encountered a horse who did not easily load into one.
I understand your frustration, as I would be very upset also, if every haul to some great trail riding area was a battle,or if I had to dread every trailer ride,versus it just being a natural given that my horse gets in, stands quietly, even when we stop to get snacks on the way out, and then just as easily loads for the trip home


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

From my experiences with Chief I go with the posters that have suggested you get a stock trailer for your mare. You could keep your nice trailer and get a small used stock trailer for very little money. 

Chief would load, but hated traveling, hated being tied and sandwiched between dividers. Again he would get on/in the trailer just fine, but fight for all he was worth not to be in there with the door shut, moving or not.

He bruised his RF sesamoid bone when trying to climb out the window of a slant load trailer, getting both front feet caught in the manger. 

My stock trailer is a step up with a full height back door, no worry that he might try to climb out anywhere again,. Yet there are the open areas between the slats for plenty of ventilation, and he travels comfortably facing the rear looking out the back and sides with interest (I have followed the trailer and seen it for myself). He's had about 6 trips so far and I believe he is much less stressed about the whole thing, as he is getting better and calmer about staying inside while the door is being shut.

Possibly with enough 'good' trips he will be ready to go in a more closed up trailer like my slant load (or your straight load).


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

mmshiro said:


> Another, somewhat drastic, idea: Clinton Anderson would probably take away her oxygen privileges as soon as she turned away from the trailer, and only let her have respite near it. If that method is successful, pretty soon your horse will think, "I better hang out near that trailer, or I'll be miserable!"


:evil::evil::evil::evil: I SO SO SO disagree with doing that kind of thing, to a scared horse. It will only make matters 1000% worse for her! Sure, they might go in, but it will be a terrified, 'broken spirited' response, and it won't make her any less terrified of being in the trailer.



> Ultimately, the decision to go in has to be hers,


And using the above sort of method, you give her a 'choice' only between terrifying, possibly deadly, or terrifying & possibly deadly. Not to mention further strengthening her association with YOU & those emotions!



> seeking the trailer's proximity is, if not the best possible, then at least the least miserable strategy for her. After all, *you know* perfectly well that the trailer won't hurt her, so trust will not be violated.


'Least miserable' option means that you'd have to think of something bloody miserable to do to her outside - which of course, will be associated with you, so she could start to fear/hate the sight of you too - welcome to my nightmare! And yes, it IS ABSOLUTELY a huge violation of her trust! I'm surprised you can't see that. Just because YOU know the trailer won't hurt her...


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Avna said:


> with the very real likelihood that just as soon as I turn the ignition key I've washed away all that work, makes me cry.


I hear you, loud & clear! I actually missed out on so many things because of this problem & in the end, moved my horse, way further from home, so I had somewhere I could ride from - & had to walk him there - difference as stated, I didn't even HAVE a trailer!

On the above note, if you think it's the engine running that is the 'breaking point', can you have the car running when you start loading her? 



> And by the way, I did do all those incremental steps that you mention. Every single one. I do understand about training.


Yeah, I thought you had a pretty good understanding/experience generally. Possibly, because you were 'under the pump' especially, you just rushed things a bit much, or some such. Didn't 'try' stuff for long enough. Perhaps interspersed trust building methods with force/punishment, which would have set back her trust in you & made her more dubious...



> The problem with trailer training is that isn't like, yay, she picked up her left lead today, or she really extended her trot, or she walked right past that barking dog. Because riding is a continual work of progression, with a thousand little triumphs


Sure, trailer loading is too! Yay! She just walked on & backed off the tailgate without stressing! Yay, she's standing inside now without wanting to back out immediately! Yay, she's accepting the butt bar! But yeah, again, I hear you, how frustrating & tedious...


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Let me start by saying I too have a Brenderup, and have had it for almost 20 years! I love my trailer and would never sell it. 

In my experience over those 20 years I have had lots of horse in my Brenderup, mine and others. Without fail, every single horse got better and better each time they were loaded. The horses, as a group, really like the Brenderup. 

*Important to note that I never, ever, immediately drive off once I load up. I always leave the side door open and let them look out a bit while I check all connections, make sure everything is secure, etc.*

The issues that I came across with certain horses:

1) horse hated the hay bag hanging in his way. Would bash it and flip his head around. It took accidently forgetting to put the hay bag in onetime for me to figure out the problem. After that, he got a little handful of grain after loading and nothing else. Problem solved. (bonus trailer stayed cleaner!) 

2) Pawing. Horse kept pawing and pawing anytime the engine was running but the vehicle was stationary, like at lights. No real solution except keep moving even if only coasting. 

3) horse loads easily, but is shaking, quivering, sweaty basket case. Solution, load second horse for every trip. Problem solved. 

4) horse scrambles and shakes. Solution, widen back of trailer stall with special "pregnant mare off-set butt bars". Problem solved

5) horse is moving constantly in trailer, side to side, flipping head back and forth. Solution, drive for 9 hours straight (with breaks for treats but no unloading). Problem solved. 

IMO sedation can make the problem worse, as many get frantic when "waking up" from sedation. Had a friends horse kill himself after surgery this past March while waking up. Smashed his head on the stall and broke his neck. Very sad. 

I would not load a horse backwards or without the divider in a Brenderup. They are not designed for that. They are designed to be snug on the horse without extra room. The butt bar should be right up on their rear without much extra space. If your center divider is solid to the floor, it might help to cut some of the lower part off. 

Also where are you tying the lead rope? You may already know this, but the lead should be tied to the loops at the front wall, not the ones on the side near the chest wall. 

Hope the long drive (at very slow speeds) calms her down. Would definitely take the pony on the trip with her. 

Sorry about the really long post!!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Avna said:


> I got her to walk in for a treat, but then she'd instantly back out. I was hoping to build her trust and a sense of relaxation around the trailer but that only went so far. The "only resting place is the trailer" approach was the next step.


I suspect that's why she keeps 'regressing' and has taken so long, unfortunately. She'd just got to trust you to walk in, but then you reverted to force. Instead, I would have made a point of asking her to back out *before* she did it herself, and find a spot, perhaps half way it, perhaps only front feet for then... where she WAS comfortable enough to stay when you asked her. Work on both those 'skills' before combining & ask her to walk all the way in & stand there... for a few seconds to begin with.



> I could fix her loading problem, because I did it once and I know I could do it again. I cannot fix the riding problem. If she didn't mind riding, once she was in, I wouldn't be in this despair.


The riding in the trailer should be no different/harder than loading... if you can find a way of doing that incrementally too.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

AnitaAnne said:


> Let me start by saying I too have a Brenderup, and have had it for almost 20 years! I love my trailer and would never sell it.
> 
> In my experience over those 20 years I have had lots of horse in my Brenderup, mine and others. Without fail, every single horse got better and better each time they were loaded. The horses, as a group, really like the Brenderup.
> 
> ...


Not at all, it was useful to hear from a Brenderup owner. Except, I have an involuntary spurt of hatred toward anyone who airily says, "I've never had a problem, and I've hauled millions of horse, millions of miles". My horse never hauled well in it. Right from the beginning. Sometimes she'd go for an hour without pawing (if tied) or spinning (if loose), and I'd think, wow, maybe that's finally behind us. Wrong.

I have no intention of sedating her. I have read too many horror stories and have never heard of any happy ending stories. 

My horse paws *worse* when the trailer is going slow, or stopped. In stop and go traffic I try not to look at anyone in other vehicles because it sounds like I have a very large wild animal back there, and people stare, and gesture, and call to me. But she never really stops. My center divider goes to the floor (with a very heavy rubber sheet).

Waiting for her to settle in and relax before starting off? What a joke. She instantly starts pawing, weaving, shaking her head. I get going as fast as I can because she is better on the straightaway freeway than any other time. The freeway is 15 minutes of hell away from my barn. 

When I tie I do tie to the front. 

I wish, I so wish, I wish more than anything on earth, that my horse would like the Brenderup, the way every other horse in the entire universe finds healing and solace in this brand of trailer. But that is simply not the case. She absolutely hates it.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Avna said:


> I wish, I so wish, I wish more than anything on earth, that my horse would like the Brenderup, the way every other horse in the entire universe finds healing and solace in this brand of trailer. But that is simply not the case. She absolutely hates it.


I guess if there's one thing I've learned so far in my admittedly short time owning horses as an adult, it's that each horse is an individual. Like you, I get so frustrated when people say "just do this and it will fix the problem!" - especially when I already tried it and it didn't fix the problem. What worked magically with one horse will inevitably turn you into a lying fool with the next horse. 

Again, I don't have advice. Just commiserating.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

mmshiro said:


> Another, somewhat drastic, idea: Clinton Anderson would probably take away her oxygen privileges as soon as she turned away from the trailer, and only let her have respite near it. If that method is successful, pretty soon your horse will think, "I better hang out near that trailer, or I'll be miserable!" when you show up with the trailer...





loosie said:


> :evil::evil::evil::evil: I SO SO SO disagree with doing that kind of thing, to a scared horse. It will only make matters 1000% worse for her! Sure, they might go in, but it will be a terrified, 'broken spirited' response, and it won't make her any less terrified of being in the trailer...


I have no suggestions for Avna. Trailering is something I want to START trying next year & I'm reading the thread to learn.

But...FWIW...that is how Mia's new owner did it with very nervous Mia. It took him 4 hours of hard work - much harder than I am physically capable of doing - to get her in the first time. It took him about 20 minutes the next day, when he needed to take her north. IIRC, it is about an 8 hour drive. By the time they got there, Mia had decided going 70 mph down a highway, looking out, without moving her legs was FUN! Last I heard, she wasn't above loading herself into an empty trailer on her own and waiting for a ride.

If I had tried it, I would have failed. To stop the process after an hour, or two, or three would have reinforced Mia's fear. Pushing through as long as needed - and I think he would have gone for 10 hours if required - worked. And yes, anytime she put one hoof partway in the trailer, he praised her and fussed over her.

But in terms of what got her good to ride in trailers...it seems to have been the long drive, looking out. Plus something inside her, and that obviously doesn't happen with all horses.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

loosie said:


> I suspect that's why she keeps 'regressing' and has taken so long, unfortunately. She'd just got to trust you to walk in, but then you reverted to force. Instead, I would have made a point of asking her to back out *before* she did it herself, and find a spot, perhaps half way it, perhaps only front feet for then... where she WAS comfortable enough to stay when you asked her. Work on both those 'skills' before combining & ask her to walk all the way in & stand there... for a few seconds to begin with.
> 
> The riding in the trailer should be no different/harder than loading... if you can find a way of doing that incrementally too.


I probably backed her out before she did it herself a hundred times. Over and over and over, day after day. I DID THIS. I know, it doesn't sound like I did, because my results were so miserable, but I did everything you describe. After 3 months, I still could not do up the butt bars without her getting upset Why? Because she knew I was going to leave. She panicked just as soon as I put a few feet of distance between me and the trailer. I used to bring a chair and sit by the escape door and read a book. She'd be okay but watchful, waiting for me to get up. If I even moved my chair back she'd start pawing again. 

I know that a better trainer with far more patience and far better communication skills could get her past this in tiny tiny tiny increments and endless patience and all the time in the world. But it turns out, that's not going to be me. I can't. I failed. And I simply cannot face trying to do this again, after giving up riding for months and doing nothing but trailer training, and failing. I know myself, and I know my limits, and I've reached the end of them. 

Finally I just started pushing her into the trailer and driving out, because I gave up. I wanted so badly to ride, and the only way to ride was to drive an agitated, stamping, spinning horse somewhere. The only way. I hated it, she hated it. And of course she got worse and worse.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Acadianartist said:


> I guess if there's one thing I've learned so far in my admittedly short time owning horses as an adult, it's that each horse is an individual. Like you, I get so frustrated when people say "just do this and it will fix the problem!" - especially when I already tried it and it didn't fix the problem. What worked magically with one horse will inevitably turn you into a lying fool with the next horse.
> 
> Again, I don't have advice. Just commiserating.


I appreciate this a lot.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

bsms said:


> But...FWIW...that is how Mia's new owner did it with very nervous Mia. It took him 4 hours of hard work - much harder than I am physically capable of doing - to get her in the first time. It took him about 20 minutes the next day, when he needed to take her north. IIRC, it is about an 8 hour drive. By the time they got there, Mia had decided going 70 mph down a highway, looking out, without moving her legs was FUN! Last I heard, she wasn't above loading herself into an empty trailer on her own and waiting for a ride.


I once spent over four hours trying to get Harley to load into a trailer using this method of rewarding incremental steps. HA! Forget it. He wasn't any closer to putting a hoof in after 4 hours than he was after 4 minutes. Should I have gone 10 hours? maybe... but you know what? I realized that Harley can't take too long to think about things or it just gets worse. I took a break to save my sanity, went back out, took out my lunge line and loaded him in 5 minutes. The next time, I was ready with the lunge line again. And again, and again, until loading was quick and relatively easy rather than frustrating and long for both of us. Now, he just sees the lunge line and walks on. I don't even have to touch him. He's not stressed, he doesn't arrive to our destination shaking like a leaf, he just acts like it's no big deal. 

Again, what works with one horse may not be the best approach with another. Or maybe I'm just not patient enough - whatever. The lunge line did NOT work with Kodak, however, so I'm thinking she's the ten-hour session type, sigh...


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

@loosie, from what I can tell, the majority of horses with trailering difficulty are just afraid of the process of going into a trailer. Once they go in they are fine. So pushing a horse like that to be brave enough to go in, is actually a very workable solution. It's just like being afraid to cross water, or walk on a tarp. Patience, rewarding any effort, encouragement from behind, they nerve themselves up to do it, they find it wasn't so bad, and they get easier and easier to load. 

Brooke is afraid of *being in* the trailer. That is why she is hard to load. She dreads the experience. I cannot make the experience of riding in the trailer comfortable for her. That is the crux of the problem. 

So, all the loading practice in the world won't help her. Only getting comfortable riding in the trailer will fix this. 

The suggestions of taking her for a very long ride in a stock trailer are the only ones I can see having a chance of working. I am going to see if I can find one to borrow.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

lightning said:


> Probably not legal, but can you have a friend drive your truck and trailer while you stand in the back. Without the horse of course, just by yourself. See what it is like back there when it is moving.


:iagree: Screw the legalities! I think every horse owner should take a ride in a trailer. It can be a real education to feel what the horse feels. Stick to the back roads.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Do you think trying a really long ride in the Brenderup may work? 

Plus trying to think outside the box...what about mounting a mirror in the front? Or maybe even putting a curtain up across the front so she can't see out?

I did have a mare that wanted nothing to do with other horses, but was comforted by my presence. She wasn't anywhere near as frantic as yours, but so bad I couldn't leave her tied to the trailer and walk away. She would call and call and frantically swing back and forth. I had to walk her around at shows. Sort of like walking a dog; she would stand and graze with me, or amble along as I walked. I just couldn't leave her. 

While her trailering was better than your mare, she did call out frequently while trailering and I used every stop light to call out to her. Making whinnying noises...have no idea what people thought

Maybe a tape recording of your voice in the trailer? So she thinks you are still nearby. 

Remember playing peek-a-boo as a child? It actually is a good way to build trust; the repeating going away and returning helps children understand that the parent will return. 

I wonder if you could recreate that with your mare? Load her however you have to, then make a very long drive but eventually return home. Stop frequently at gas stations or something, park and open the side door. Talk to her for a few minutes, then drive off again. 

Doesn't seem like the loading is the real problem, it seems like she is terrified to be there and thinks you are gone. Maybe she had a traumatic experience when she was young and the terror of leaving has stayed in her head. 

IMO it is not the brand or style of the trailer, but the actual ride where her security (you) is gone.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Acadianartist said:


> I once spent over four hours trying to get Harley to load into a trailer using this method of rewarding incremental steps...


What the guy did with Mia wasn't really rewarding incremental steps. He worked her BUTT OFF any time she wasn't right at the trailer. I'd describe the approach as "Hell is anywhere but the trailer". Not my style, but it worked for him & for her - which was one of the reasons I swapped horses with him. He genuinely adored Mia, and she genuinely liked him. Even when he was pushing her very hard, she still liked him.

But I agree...what works for one horse may be a disaster for the next, and what one person can do successfully another might not. Much of life with horses seems to be a search for the intersection of success between individual horse and individual rider, complicated further by differing environments.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I guess, because trailering for me, is just as natural as leading a horse, tying a horse, I truly have a hard time understanding where trailering a horse can be so problematic.
I do know, that it matters on the design of the trailer.
I once leased Smilie to a friend, who had a straight load two horse.
Smilie had never ever pawed in my trailer, been upset about loading. When she was being hauled home, my son remarked that he could hear Smilie coming, as she was pawing in that trailer, so that we could hear her, even before that trailer hit our drive way.
This Thurs, I decided it was time for Charlie to ride out west again, as Carmen is my main trail horse, and we had just spent a week end at the Ya Ha Tinda, and , having ahorse that I use mainly for trail riding, unfortunately has me putting less trail miles then ideal, on the horse I also show
My friend said she would haul, even though I offered, as she lives more east from me, and thus had to haul yo my place anyway.
Charlie had never been in her trailer, nor hauled with her horse, But just steeped in, before even really being asked to do so.
I think , if trailering becomes just an extension of what you do with a horse, with that trailer truly allowing the horse to balance, it becomes just as acceptable to a horse as being tied, ridden out alone,, being stalled short term, ect,
I never use treats in a trailer, as bribing a horse might get them to go in, but they also want to leave, soon as that treat is consumed, so it solves nothing in the long run.JMO
Horses are creatures of habit. Make being trialed no big deal, regular part of their life, and horses are fine with it
I am no fan of lunging a horse near a trailer, to get them to load.
If a horse has a loading problem, created by something in his past,then fix the true problem away from that trailer
Make sure the horse is 100% on leading, or, sending, if you have a straight load two horse.
Make standing tied solid, alone, a regular routine


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Avna I feel for you. I have a not so good with riding in the trailer horse too. After years I've come to conclusion that some horses, just like some people, experience motion sickness. And yes I've tried everything too. I can have him loading with ease but after 1 trip in the trailer we have to start all over again. Doesn't matter if it's a long or short trip, buddy with him or alone, hay bag or no hay bag, how many days in a row he's used the trailer for a dining car or grooming station or standing calmly inside a stationary trailer, he does not like to ride in the trailer. How this scenario turns out is I can take him anyplace I want to, getting him home is whole different story.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

One of my Hunters was a devil for pawing when travelling. I stopped him but hitting the brakes every time he started to do it. A couple of short trips and he was fine.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I guess your choices are:

1. Move your horse to a boarding facility that you will not have to haul from to get to trails.
2. Trade horses
3. Trade trailers
4. Keep on trying until she finally learns. I have heard of that tapping the breaks idea; I was told that it gets their mind off of acting up and puts in on standing up without losing their balance.


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## RMH (Jul 26, 2016)

A few years ago I bought our first horse, an Appaloosa mare. The seller admitted she didn't like to load and it took us well over an hour to load her to come home. I messed with her for a couple of weeks and loading was not improving. I finally had enough and sent my daughter to the house and got to work on trailer loading. I made it extremely uncomfortable for her not to load. Only took an hour and it's a lesson I have not had to repeat. The side affect it also corrected some other minor behavioral issues too. The mare does not hate me and does not question my ques. I do use a stock trailer and haul them loose 2-3 horses per section. Perhaps if you are not up to tough love find a trainer who is.

On the pawing side I occasionally ride with a women whose mare kicks the trailer. The mare wears an electric shock collar while riding in the trailer. Said she only had to use it a couple of times and now everything is fine as long as the mare is wearing the collar.

Life is too short to have a difficult horse which will not do what you want. Get the help you need to solve this issue.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Smilie said:


> I guess, because trailering for me, is just as natural as leading a horse, tying a horse, I truly have a hard time understanding where trailering a horse can be so problematic.<snip>


Smilie, if you can't understand, I wish you wouldn't comment. It's the very opposite of helpful. If I had your set-up, and your opportunities, I would have your experiences. I bet if you had my life, my set-up, and my horse, you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss my problems.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Celeste said:


> I guess your choices are:
> 
> 1. Move your horse to a boarding facility that you will not have to haul from to get to trails.
> 2. Trade horses
> ...


1. can't do that
2. not going to happen, period.
3. going to try this.
4. the first part, yes. I tried the second part. Only made it worse. If that was possible. It would work with a horse who is just being naughty. This is far beyond that.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Avna said:


> Smilie, if you can't understand, I wish you wouldn't comment. It's the very opposite of helpful. If I had your set-up, and your opportunities, I would have your experiences. I bet if you had my life, my set-up, and my horse, you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss my problems.



I will bow out, and good luck.
A trail horse that won't trailer, is something one can't really compromise with, so I do hope you find a solution that will work


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Foxhunter said:


> One of my Hunters was a devil for pawing when travelling. I stopped him but hitting the brakes every time he started to do it. A couple of short trips and he was fine.


This did not work for me.


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

WhattaTroublemaker said:


> Maybe this won't help, but when we had a trailer hater we put her in a dry lot with water and hay in the trailer (parked in the lot) Took her two days to go in and drink but after that she was fine.


+ 1 This is what they do here on the ranch. And when I first bought my trailer I started feeding in it just to get the horses used to it.

If she's had bad experiences associated with the trailer before and after you acquired her, it could take a while and several good experiences to cover the old experiences with good ones.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

RMH said:


> A few years ago I bought our first horse, an Appaloosa mare. The seller admitted she didn't like to load and it took us well over an hour to load her to come home. I messed with her for a couple of weeks and loading was not improving. I finally had enough and sent my daughter to the house and got to work on trailer loading. I made it extremely uncomfortable for her not to load. Only took an hour and it's a lesson I have not had to repeat. The side affect it also corrected some other minor behavioral issues too. The mare does not hate me and does not question my ques. I do use a stock trailer and haul them loose 2-3 horses per section. Perhaps if you are not up to tough love find a trainer who is.
> 
> On the pawing side I occasionally ride with a women whose mare kicks the trailer. The mare wears an electric shock collar while riding in the trailer. Said she only had to use it a couple of times and now everything is fine as long as the mare is wearing the collar.
> 
> Life is too short to have a difficult horse which will not do what you want. Get the help you need to solve this issue.


I do not lack toughness, believe me. In all my decades of animal training, never once has anyone said, "you need to get tougher." Unless they were wrong. 

Your Appy had a different problem -- she didn't want to load but once she was in there she was okay. My horse doesn't want to load because when she is in there, she suffers. Huge difference. She doesn't fear getting in, she fears being in. That is why she fears getting in.

I have used shock collars (not on horses) and I know what they are good for and what they aren't. Kicking out of boredom, I can see that. They are not appropriate for anxiety-caused behaviors. Imagine being shocked for being afraid, how would that work for you?

Also, my horse is really wonderful. She is sweet, spirited, steady, affectionate, soft, elegant, well-mannered, a perfect size for me, and I really do love her. I have done all her training, save a couple months getting her backed at the beginning. We've worked through many problems in the last two years, and I know how her mind works pretty well. We have a great bond. If I gave her up I doubt I would find a much better horse for me. And I would grieve for the rest of my life. It's just this one thing.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Hondo said:


> + 1 This is what they do here on the ranch. And when I first bought my trailer I started feeding in it just to get the horses used to it.
> 
> If she's had bad experiences associated with the trailer before and after you acquired her, it could take a while and several good experiences to cover the old experiences with good ones.


My arrangement with my neighbor who owns the field does not allow me to do this. The last time I asked she said very grudgingly that I could leave the trailer there for a couple of days, and that's it.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

I want to say here that I appreciate every single person who has taken the trouble to respond. I was really at the end of my rope and I feel I have acquired just a little more rope to work with. It is very helpful to sort through what is, and what is not, going on with her. It isn't your average "I just don't want to go in there" problem. If it was, I am confident I would have been able to solve it by now. 

Never say die . . .


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

Your situation just breaks my heart. I've thought about it all last night and all day today. My mare Isabeau also loads quickly and easily, but once in the trailer, she has something like a panic attack. Or used to anyway. For two years, my dream was to put her in the trailer and drive to CA to visit Elle. I was thinking that 4 days of trailering would get her over her panic of the trailer.

And that reminded me of something that happened when I was 21 years old. I had a young colt I had bought to train and love. As part of his training, I put him in a borrowed trailer. But I was young and inexperienced and did not realize that the little pieces of wood I put behind the wheels would not hold the trailer. It flipped up and rolled down a hill smashing into a car. (whoooo, the expense and money I had to come up with for my stupidity!) It also terrorized my young colt, who became terrified of the trailer.

This was back in 1970, and there was no natural horsemanship back then. I was taught to be the boss and force the horse in the trailer, which I did, many times. He was awful. It was awful. I didn't know what to do.

But the time came when my husband and I had to move from Texas to Maryland, and my horse was going with me. I bought a $200 trailer, much too small for my 16 hand appaloosa but all we could afford, and off we went. The first two days were quite ragged. But by the end of the 5 day trip from Texas to MD, he loaded and hauled like a dream, and did the rest of his life. As some other posters have suggested, I hope that some looooong trailer rides might do the trick. And I mean days long--Florida to CA long.

And aren't you moving to Massachusetts? My idea is to put her in the trailer, grit your teeth, and drive her to MA when the time comes. Hopefully, by the time you get there, the job will be done. That was my experience. I would have done the same with Isabeau, but my husband is afraid of traveling and refuses to allow it. I pick my battles with him and don't fight him on traveling. I believe in my heart, it would have fixed Isabeau and it wouldn't have taken 4 years like it has for me.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Is she really, truly afraid? Or has she figured out that being squirrely gets her out of trailering if she keeps it up long enough?


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

SilverMaple said:


> Is she really, truly afraid? Or has she figured out that being squirrely gets her out of trailering if she keeps it up long enough?


You'd have to ask her that. She gets out when we get where we're going, in half an hour or three hours. She's typically acting upset for at least 60% of that time, no matter how long it is. 

But you could be right in that the length of the trip has never outlasted her behavior. I haven't been on any long-enough trips for that.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Does your trailer have windows by their heads? I wonder if she is just claustrophobic. If I remember correctly, you said before that she trailered OK in a slant with a window? Not great, but OK?

Just reiterating the stock trailer thing. They are built to hold bulls and cows, they should hold up to her just fine. Most have slats all the way down the side, so lots of light and visibility.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I really do understand the "but I LOVE this trailer!". BUT if there is a possibility that it is just the equipment causing the behavior, then wouldn't you do like you would with any piece of tack and find one that works for your horse?

If I were in your shoes, I would rent/borrow a stock trailer and find out. IMO, easiest possibility to eliminate.

Something like this:


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

> created by something in his past,then fix the true problem away from that trailer
> Make sure the horse is 100% on leading, or, sending, if you have a straight load two horse.
> Make standing tied solid, alone, a regular routine


Yes i agree with you in principle *generally* but sometimes - as it seems in this case - the horse's problem is IN the trailer. You cant fix that without being there.

I also do agree with those who say one method isnt right fo r all & sometimes making it the 'better evil' is ok, even productive. I think there is generally a better way, but sometimes... IMHO it depends 1st n foremost on the horse - how scared or otherwise, & just as importantly, the person doing it & what the horse thinks of them & how they go about it.

What i very strongly disagree with is 'taking air away' or otherwise causing the horse to fear for his life. Ever, in any situation, but esp if the horse is already fearful of what youre trying to force.

Avna, i do feel for you! It did sound like maybe you had missed bits which is why i suggested, but yeah, sounds like you've done all you can. Except maybe 'approach & retreat' of you leaving??


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

@Avna also, where can I find pictures and info on your cute pony?!


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

horseluvr2524 said:


> Does your trailer have windows by their heads? I wonder if she is just claustrophobic. If I remember correctly, you said before that she trailered OK in a slant with a window? Not great, but OK?
> 
> Just reiterating the stock trailer thing. They are built to hold bulls and cows, they should hold up to her just fine. Most have slats all the way down the side, so lots of light and visibility.
> 
> ...


Yes, I can borrow one from one of my rancher friends. It is now on my agenda. Much planning will be involved. I am not sure I can get one across our bridge, just for starters. I might have to trailer her thirty miles to the stock trailer and then trailer her back home from it. Nothing whatsoever is simple or straightforward about this. 
Brenderups are extremely light filled with high ceilings, all white inside, lots of safe windows -- the whole front is a plexiglass window and there are big side windows.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

horseluvr2524 said:


> @Avna also, where can I find pictures and info on your cute pony?!


Just for you, Dusty pictures:
He is twelve, 12.1 hands, going slowly blind, and is on permanent loan from some friends. He is very calm and well-trained. Was a show jumping pony until his eye problems. He's a doll. He's lost a little weight on my feeding regimen and with more exercise; these are from his arrival a few weeks ago.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

My next guess is (going off the slant experience which I may or may not remember correctly), if it's not because of light or needing to be in open air (which would account for the plexiglass not being enough), then I'd guess that she likes being boxed in and having panels to lean against. Could make her feel more secure/safer, vs. being dwarfed in the brenderup or stock trailer or similar trailers.

My mom's parent went totally nutso neurotic for no clear reason. Went from being a sweet snuggle bug to not wanting anything to do with people. After researching a lot and talking to bird rehabilitators, they compared the syndrome of this particular species of parrot to autism. It made sense because the bird liked dark, closed spaces, it made him feel safer.

Perhaps your mare has a similar neurosis, one that is comparable to autism? Does she like her face being held and snuggled? Does she like being very close and in other horses' space? Does she sidle up to or lean against walls, etc.?

FWIW, I was so upset, frustrated, and mad at this parrot until I was told the autism metaphor. I immediately understood him better, put plans into action to devise ways of making him feel safer. This was only in the past week, and he is so much better than he was before I started. He loves having his cage halfway covered and dark during the day. 
One of the most frustrating things in my experience, is when you can't understand the 'WHY' of it. Once you know that though, the emotional turmoil goes away and the 'how', 'when', etc. fall into place.

Your mare just reminded me of the parrot, because I felt like I HAD tried everything. Once you've gotten there, it is likely that the animal has some kind of physical or mental disability/handicap, and they just need a little extra help beyond the normal.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Sweet little pony! Is he still OK for light riding or? Might be fun if you could take a riding buddy with you sometimes.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

horseluvr2524 said:


> Sweet little pony! Is he still OK for light riding or? Might be fun if you could take a riding buddy with you sometimes.


I think he can be ridden by a small person (he's maybe 550-600 lbs), especially if he had a horse to follow. He's already kind of spooky around his face if you are too abrupt. I talk to him and make sure he is ready for whatever I need to do with him. I'm 120 and feel I am a bit too heavy, although he is quite sound otherwise. I wonder if he could draw a cart?


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

horseluvr2524 said:


> My next guess is (going off the slant experience which I may or may not remember correctly), if it's not because of light or needing to be in open air (which would account for the plexiglass not being enough), then I'd guess that she likes being boxed in and having panels to lean against. Could make her feel more secure/safer, vs. being dwarfed in the brenderup or stock trailer or similar trailers.
> 
> My mom's parent went totally nutso neurotic for no clear reason. Went from being a sweet snuggle bug to not wanting anything to do with people. After researching a lot and talking to bird rehabilitators, they compared the syndrome of this particular species of parrot to autism. It made sense because the bird liked dark, closed spaces, it made him feel safer.
> 
> ...


Well, she doesn't show any other signs. She has never been good at standing tied but has gotten much better with practice. She doesn't like her face being held, particularly, but then, I am not very snuggly with horses and have never done much of it. She loves her head especially her eyes, to be rubbed though. 

My guess is, she doesn't like to be alone, she doesn't like to be trapped in a small box, and she has a really antsy reaction to those things, which has now escalated to full blown reactivity where she cannot calm herself. I think a stock trailer feels roomier even if it is not any more square footage, because of the lack of solid walls, and that helps her. I also think she would better with a companion, and I also think that a long road trip is in my immediate future. I have a window of time free in the middle of September and if the weather holds I think I will at least make it to the Sierras. That's a six hour or so trip, might be enough to find out something. Need to find someone to go with or meet me there.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

horseluvr2524 said:


> ...My mom's parent went totally nutso neurotic for no clear reason....


It's called "Kids". Happened to me too!

Sorry. Couldn't resist.:wave:


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## Follow (Mar 4, 2014)

I skimmed the whole thread, so perhaps I missed if someone else recommended this or not.

If you aren't willing to sell your mare. Have you considered getting a trainer that deals with problem horses? 


Also wanna say that going to a new home that doesn't require any trailering may be best for her in the long run, and she may be happier there.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

bsms said:


> It's called "Kids". Happened to me too!
> 
> Sorry. Couldn't resist.:wave:


:rofl:

good one! I had to check and see if I had a typo.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Follow said:


> I skimmed the whole thread, so perhaps I missed if someone else recommended this or not.
> 
> If you aren't willing to sell your mare. Have you considered getting a trainer that deals with problem horses?
> 
> ...


Here is my previous response to a similar suggestion:

<snip>... my horse is really wonderful. She is sweet, spirited, steady, affectionate, soft, elegant, well-mannered, a perfect size for me, and I really do love her. I have done all her training, save a couple months getting her backed at the beginning. We've worked through many problems in the last two years, and I know how her mind works pretty well. We have a great bond. If I gave her up I doubt I would find a much better horse for me. And I would grieve for the rest of my life. It's just this one thing.</snip>

She really isn't a problem horse. She's a horse with a problem. One problem. It's isn't as if she's the wrong horse for me. She's exactly the right horse for me. Except for this one thing.

Anyway, you can search the net deep and wide, and you will not find "problem horse trainers" who deal with this. They deal with spoiled horses, feral horses, horses with vices, and so forth. Not horses who won't settle in a trailer. Maybe they should, but that's not what people go to trainers for. At least I have never heard of it.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Not trying to add anything non helpful, but, since she has at least gotten better with standing tied, through exposure tot hat, do you not think the same might apply to just hauling her regularly?
Just a thought, as I see you have had her almost her entire life, so perhaps there is no bad trailering history, just not enough hauling to make her comfortable doing so.
Also has she ever been stalled enough, so she is accepting of confinement in general?
I have seen young horses, never stalled , go to a first show, and act in that stall much like your horse, far as the trailer-pawing, being unsettled, ect
Perhaps she has learned to tie well and stand patiently, to be stalled and be calm and quiet , relaxed in a stall, and I am only going over old territory, but if not, that is where I would start, JMO


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Smilie said:


> Not trying to add anything non helpful, but, since she has at least gotten better with standing tied, through exposure tot hat, do you not think the same might apply to just hauling her regularly?
> Just a thought, as I see you have had her almost her entire life, so perhaps there is no bad trailering history, just not enough hauling to make her comfortable doing so.
> Also has she ever been stalled enough, so she is accepting of confinement in general?
> I have seen young horses, never stalled , go to a first show, and act in that stall much like your horse, far as the trailer-pawing, being unsettled, ect
> Perhaps she has learned to tie well and stand patiently, to be stalled and be calm and quiet , relaxed in a stall, and I am only going over old territory, but if not, that is where I would start, JMO


You are onto something, Smilie. She had a hard time in a stall for awhile, acted very similar as in the trailer (she had never been in a stall in her life as far as I know). I started putting her in at night when it got so wet her feet never dried out, so she got over that. Now she's fine. 

She took a long time to learn to stand quietly while tied away from other horses (she never pulled back, just got herself worked up, pawed etc.). But now she does (still is bad in a strange place, like tied to a trailer where she can't see any other horses, and then I leave too). Still is horrible in cross ties, and again, she has never had much of any experience with them as I lack an aisle barn. 

So, she has gotten over her anxiety in other somewhat similar situations. She can do this too! Right?


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Yes, I think you might have the beginnings of your solution.
My son once took a young filly to a show, that he never gave much stall time to. She spent the weekend pacing and pawing in that stall, half rearing at times, when not being ridden, and why I thought of it.
Hope it helps!


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## Follow (Mar 4, 2014)

I think I'd still get word of to some big trainers and see if anyone is interested in her case. 
I think I would trying doing everything that trailer. 

I would feed, groom, tack...everything. And yes I know you've done most of this.

Have you tried removing the divider and stalling her in there for the night. I would either *try* to sleep in the truck or beside the trailer on a cot/sleeping bag. Then in the morning just pick it out like you would a stall, feed her and water, put more shavings in, and take her out to pasture, and repeat the next evening. 

Use earplugs if she's being annoying. And get up and feeds treats every time she's quiet for a moment.

I would repeat and then one evening just start the truck and let it run for a couple hours while she's in the trailer. 

If none of that works, I would consider taking a VERY long trip. Or hire someone to take the long trip with her and see if it works.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Follow said:


> I think I'd still get word of to some big trainers and see if anyone is interested in her case.
> I think I would trying doing everything that trailer.
> 
> I would feed, groom, tack...everything. And yes I know you've done most of this.
> ...


It's a long thread. 

The first thing is an excellent suggestion, but one without any possibility of happening, as I have already explained upthread. One of the reasons that I have a problem to begin with, is that I have a very constrained and complicated physical set up. The trailer is in someone else's driveway. The horse is in a yet different person's field. Both are about 3/4ths mile from my house. The field owner doesn't want a trailer there at all, period, ever. The driveway owner doesn't have room for anything more than me pulling the trailer out of the slot briefly while I load. Where I park my trailer is close to that person's house, and their airb&b -- no possible way they will be okay with a horse pawing in a trailer all night. There is no room at my house for a rig. 

Even without the trailering dilemma, it can be mentally exhausting to keep a horse "at home" this way. I have horse equipment in my trailer, in the hay shed at the field, and in the tack room which is yet again quite distant from the field) and even at my house. If I don't want to keep every piece of equipment in quadruplicate, I have to remember where everything is at all times and make sure it is in the place I will need it next, or face a long walk to get, say, a noseband, or a scissors. I do dream of a day where I have my own land with pasture and a barn near the house ... particularly right this minute.

Taking the long trip is my best bet, I think, but it is a very, very difficult thing to do itself. Which is why I have never yet done it. I have to go alone, as there is no one to go with me. I could meet a friend, if I can find a riding friend who also wants to go camping many hours away and has the same bloc of time to do it as I do. And there is where to go, what to do with the companion pony, and many other not-insignificant details, all of which I will have to laboriously figure out myself, as there is no one to help me with it. 

I have a clinic the first weekend in September and am leaving on a long-planned trip to Massachusetts the last weekend in September. It's August 20th already. I am not sure I can pull this off, frankly. But I am going to give it a shot.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Aha! You found it. She's anxious about being alone and standing tied, and in cross ties. It's a confinement and confidence issue with being alone, not necessarily the trailer itself, but she's associated the trailer with being anxious and confined.

I'd start with stalling her at night. Put the pony in next to her to start with, then move him farther away the next day, etc. until she's relaxed and quiet in there by herself. Do lots of work with just taking her out and tying her to something for hours at a time. If she frets and paws all day, so be it. Bring her a drink and a few bites of hay periodically if you have to, but do not untie her until she's standing calmly with a leg cocked and her head down, otherwise you teach her that her anxiousness gets her untied. 

Set up a tie stall if you need to. I suspect part of her issue with the trailer is being confined so she can't move side to side. She needs to learn this is OK unless you want to get a new trailer. Same with cross ties.

You may need to board at a facility for a few weeks to address this. Somewhere with stalls, safe tying areas (patience pole or patience tree) away from other horses for training, and place to work with a trailer.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

@Avna IMO it is not necessary to actually go anywhere. Just the long drive. Plan out a route that will have you driving most of the day, then just return home. 

Would not muddy the issue with a campout or anything. Just a long ride in the trailer. After which she returns home. You could even do it two days in a row. 

Very good idea of @Similie and @SilverMaple to tie her in the stall overnight for a few days first.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Not having your own facilities can be a pain, so is there any way you could board her at some arena, for a month, and where the horses are stalled regularly over night
A place with nice safe box stalls.
I don't even think that confinement should be associated with the trailer at this point, taking her on a long haul. Get her comfortable being stalled, even for a few hours by herself, and then add a moving trailer.
While many times one can get by, never teaching a horse to either accept some time stalled, esp alone, or tied solid alone, I do believe that experience helps to form a more solid foundation, applicable to other circumstances
I realize this might involve boarding, but it would be perhaps adding those skills, without having a trainer work specifically on the trailer issue, but perhaps helping to solve it indirectly, as least partly, and then something you can build on.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

Yogiwick said:


> ^While I would be leary about heavy tranq'ing I do agree with the concept...esp the "needs to figure it out but is too wound up too"


Maybe some 'special' brownies? 

I know folks have joked about Trigger - he needs to just roll one and smoke it... or... dude needs a dose of Prozac... 

Don't think I didn't consider it on days like Avna has had.

Annnnd maybe for both of us.

Avna... all I can do is tell you I empathize.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

She is okay in a stall alone. She is okay tied alone. Well, usually anyway. She's gotten much much better than she was originally. A patience pole would improve her. There isn't one available, nor a suitable tree. I am planning out borrowing a stock trailer and taking a looong trip with her. 

And maybe my husband will put up a patience pole in the field, for my birthday. My birthday's coming up, and my suggestion for a birthday present (dump run) wasn't received with enormous enthusiasm . . .


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Great idea, far as that birthday present.
Mine one year, was my husband making me a bridge. No jewelry for me!
Hubby knows enough to get me horse stuff, or let me buy my own .
My Christmas present to myself,last year, was a new aluminium floor in my horse trailer


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

AtokaGhosthorse said:


> Maybe some 'special' brownies?
> 
> I know folks have joked about Trigger - he needs to just roll one and smoke it... or... dude needs a dose of Prozac...
> 
> ...


I think I should be the one eating the brownie, to be honest.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Better then just a patience pole, get hubby to build a nice hitching rail, like the one above.
I had a better picture, but thanks to photobucket, this one will have to do. It does not show the metal rod, running halfway down, to prevent a horse form going under that rail
It is nice and high, and you can hang a hay net, plus a horse can't wind himself around, like on a patience pole


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

Nothing to add except that when I hauled my big guy 1400 miles from Minnesota to Washington State, and then back 2 weeks later, he got better and better about loading and being in the trailer as the trip(s) progressed. I was using a 2-horse straight load, and he had never loaded in one before the trip. It was a rental, as I don't own a trailer.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Avna said:


> I think I should be the one eating the brownie, to be honest.


I love chocolate!!!


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Joel Reiter said:


> Nothing to add except that when I hauled my big guy 1400 miles from Minnesota to Washington State, and then back 2 weeks later, he got better and better about loading and being in the trailer as the trip(s) progressed. I was using a 2-horse straight load, and he had never loaded in one before the trip. It was a rental, as I don't own a trailer.


 @Joel Reiter, was he alone in the trailer?


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## wilsonaact (May 6, 2017)

Something that we do with our mustangs (and other horses) when we are training is to work them in the round pen. Just keep free lunging and lunging, make them work their feet. At the opening of the round pen give the horse the option to go into the trailer (which has food and water in it). If your horse goes into the trailer then you stop working him letting him rest until he comes back out. When he comes back out work him again. It depends on the horse, sometimes this works on the first day sometimes it takes more time to get the horse comfortable with the trailer. If you condition your horse to feel as if the trailer is a place where he gets to rest and not be worked he may be more willing to go in it. This has worked for every horse that we have trained so far.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

wilsonaact said:


> Something that we do with our mustangs (and other horses) when we are training is to work them in the round pen. Just keep free lunging and lunging, make them work their feet. At the opening of the round pen give the horse the option to go into the trailer (which has food and water in it). If your horse goes into the trailer then you stop working him letting him rest until he comes back out. When he comes back out work him again. It depends on the horse, sometimes this works on the first day sometimes it takes more time to get the horse comfortable with the trailer. If you condition your horse to feel as if the trailer is a place where he gets to rest and not be worked he may be more willing to go in it. This has worked for every horse that we have trained so far.


But you need a round pen and a way to park your trailer in the gate. Two things I don't have . . .


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

Avna said:


> @*Joel Reiter* , was he alone in the trailer?


For the first thousand miles or so he was alone. I picked up a mustang mare in Montana and hauled them together the last day. Going home I dropped off the mustang where I picked her up.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

@Avna I can sympathize with you. When I was a teen we had a Quarab - who shook and sweated and was beside himself when trailered. He was my sisters 4-H horse and we went to a lot of shows. We had to leave extra early so Chico could recover from the trailer ride before our classes. He was this way whether trailed in a 2 horse straight load or a cattle trailer (18ft stock trailer) the only thing we were really ever able to do to make him better was remove the low hanging divider in the stock trailer and the 2 horse - his issue was more that he felt too unbalanced in a trailer - anything that impeded him spreading his legs as far apart as possible just made him more nervous. So in a stock trailer he got an entire stall (our trailer had 3 stalls and 2 dividers) or in the 2 horse we would remove the divider and tie a rope around the second horse so one could not smash the other against the wall (usually Chico would be the smasher)

As for the hammer - I feel for you. I think most horse people have dealt with trailer issues, saddle fit issues buddy sourness in some way shape or form. 

Can you try to remove the lower part of the divider? maybe she feels unstable and just wants to stand splay legged? Just grasping at straws here.

I know you can do this!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I thought dividers were already ruled out, as they certainly can make a horse feel un able to balance, and why there are none in my angle haul three hrose. A horse has to be fully able to spread his feet, esp when you haul in rough country.
Don't worry about not having a round pen. I have one, and never consider using it to teach a horse to load
I want mine to load because they both trust me asking them to do so, go where asked without deciding where they will or will not lead/go.
No intention of ever playing that lunging game outside of the trailer!


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

I think you have already found part of the answer but just wanted to mention this as it was one of the strangest things I have ever seen but for this horse it was what was needed and there are assumptions that go along with it but it's an idea. Could vibrations in the floor be the issue and riding boots help? Someone I knew had a horse that sounds similar. Never had the opportunity for long trips but when the horse had a laminitic episode and was booted to make her more comfortable the horse had no problem in the trailer. The theory is vibrations coming up from the floor made this horse bat crap crazy but the boots deadend the vibration enough that she was fine. In a way that is what a long trip would do - desensitize her to whatever is making her uncomfortable. I truly hope you get it worked out or the move "cures" her.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

Avna said:


> I think I should be the one eating the brownie, to be honest.


And as of January that will be legal in CA, won't it?


I know someone suggested shavings (pine) if you aren't using them. Just for the heck of it, I might toss in some of her manure and some of that lovely pony friend. Sort of like sending your dog to camp with a t-shirt you have worn.


I applaud you for being so determined. I know what it is like to have a horse you love with issues. You work and work because the problem would go with the horse and you surely do not want her abused by some know-it-all with little or no patience. For me being stubborn and pig-headed added to the determination. She learned and I learned...and is still with me at 25.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

QtrBel said:


> I think you have already found part of the answer but just wanted to mention this as it was one of the strangest things I have ever seen but for this horse it was what was needed and there are assumptions that go along with it but it's an idea. Could vibrations in the floor be the issue and riding boots help? Someone I knew had a horse that sounds similar. Never had the opportunity for long trips but when the horse had a laminitic episode and was booted to make her more comfortable the horse had no problem in the trailer. The theory is vibrations coming up from the floor made this horse bat crap crazy but the boots deadend the vibration enough that she was fine. In a way that is what a long trip would do - desensitize her to whatever is making her uncomfortable. I truly hope you get it worked out or the move "cures" her.


Yes,puuting hoofboots on, esp for long trips, does much more good then just wrapping legs
SoftRide boots are meant to be used this way also, and esp a laminitic horse, should be booted, to trailer, thus helping both to protect that foot, and lessen vibration, which an unstable hoof capsule does not need!

https://www.softrideboots.com/daily-use.asp


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Well, I have settled down a bit and made some plans. I have located a 3 horse stock trailer and also a 2 horse slant, which I can borrow. I have made plans to get to the Sierras next month, which will be a good long trip, and blocked out some time to just load her up with pony and drive all day. If necessary, two days in a row, or three. 

Then I will have more data. 

Meanwhile I've been riding in the arena, where she is finally finding the lovely slow canter I knew was in there somewhere. She really is a great little horse.


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## maddieschwartz (Apr 6, 2017)

So I work with trailer loading and problem horses quite a bit. I personally would get her in and take her for long rides, let her freak out and realize that she still comes home in one piece and all is fine in the world. what I do to teach them to go in is add pressure behind their drive line with a lunge whip or dressage whip. start gently and then slowly increase the pressure, with each step towards the trailer release immediately. they learn from the release of pressure, not the pressure itself, so your timing will be very important. unfortunately if a horse is nervous in any way, it will not eat. so bribing with food usually does not work for very long. she will eventually stop the pawing once she figures out that it isn't going to kill her.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

maddieschwartz said:


> So I work with trailer loading and problem horses quite a bit. I personally would get her in and take her for long rides, let her freak out and realize that she still comes home in one piece and all is fine in the world. what I do to teach them to go in is add pressure behind their drive line with a lunge whip or dressage whip. start gently and then slowly increase the pressure, with each step towards the trailer release immediately. they learn from the release of pressure, not the pressure itself, so your timing will be very important. unfortunately if a horse is nervous in any way, it will not eat. so bribing with food usually does not work for very long. she will eventually stop the pawing once she figures out that it isn't going to kill her.


Riding: going to try the long -- very long -- rides as soon as I can. 
Loading: that is how I taught her to load. Now, after so many upsetting trailer rides, she won't load, all over again. 
Pawing: she's been pawing for two solid years. She's slow on the uptake I guess.


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## firstforme28 (Aug 23, 2017)

Had horses that did not like the confinement of a 2 horse trailer and also a 6'8" to 7' ceiling height can help. The biggest I have found is how the horse is trailered. Most horses get nervous when drivers hit the brakes hard, make fast turns and give them a rough ride. I have been in a trailer while being pulled and it can be rough. When I pull horses I am always knowing how their weight is distributed. I always ease into a turn and when I feel their weight shift then turn also when slowing and stopping I feel their weight shift to their hind quarters before stopping hard. I have know people that trailer their horses like the trailer is empty and their horses always come out sweating and nervous. Some horses just don't like being trailered. Patience can help. Sometimes just putting the horse in the trailer for feeding with you there in the beginning. Horses are creatures of habit. Most bad habits are man made and if the horse has total trust in you it can make a big difference.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

firstforme28 said:


> Had horses that did not like the confinement of a 2 horse trailer and also a 6'8" to 7' ceiling height can help. The biggest I have found is how the horse is trailered. Most horses get nervous when drivers hit the brakes hard, make fast turns and give them a rough ride. I have been in a trailer while being pulled and it can be rough. When I pull horses I am always knowing how their weight is distributed. I always ease into a turn and when I feel their weight shift then turn also when slowing and stopping I feel their weight shift to their hind quarters before stopping hard. I have know people that trailer their horses like the trailer is empty and their horses always come out sweating and nervous. Some horses just don't like being trailered. Patience can help. Sometimes just putting the horse in the trailer for feeding with you there in the beginning. Horses are creatures of habit. Most bad habits are man made and if the horse has total trust in you it can make a big difference.


I am a very slow and careful driver. The ceiling is very high (warmblood trailer, horse is 14.2). I have spent hours feeding her in the trailer with me there. 

Just saying -- I've been trying to work on this problem for two years. I am an extremely conscientious and persevering person. The solution to this problem, if there is one, is not easy or obvious, because I would have found it by now if that was the case.


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

I bet that loooong drivie will do it for you. When we took our long drive (hubby says it was actually 18 hours not 16), we didn't take her out of the trailer when we stopped. We gave her water and hay when we stopped, but kept her in the trailer.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Yes, that long drive might just do the trick.
My friend hauled hroses as a business, for a few years, until she crunched the numbers. Being very conscientious, on long hauls she un loaded the hroses whenever she has a stop over facility that allowed it.
One of the conditions, was that the horses loaded-well, that was often fudged by some owners.
On one trip, she had a mare very hard to load, and trying to get an early start, she was on her own,far as getting that mare on the trailer. She gave that mare some ABC loading lessons, and by the end of that trip, several stops where the mare was un loaded, she loaded like a champ.
It is nice on along haul, to un load those hroses, give them a chance to lie down A long haul is very hard on horses, both due tot he vibration, and the need to constantly balance
Un loading, putting them in a stall, walking them some, is very beneficial, not to mention, gives them repeat loading and un loading experience, as well as that haul


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## equitatedaily (Aug 22, 2017)

**** horses.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Update . . . 

Today I located a steel 2 horse stock trailer, obtained permission to borrow it, drove out to fetch it to the barn, set it up, and loaded the horses, pony in the front, then Brooke. Guess what? Very little problem! She was a little wary about going in, dithered a bit but she saw the bag of alfalfa and could hear Dusty contentedly munching away (that pony is a prince), and in she hopped. Because it was a stock trailer it was simple to run the extra-long lead rope through the window so I could keep her head from turning while I closed up the back. Then she JUST STOOD THERE. She ate some alfalfa and seemed perfectly calm, so after about ten minutes I unloaded them and put them away. 

Amazing. 

I didn't go anywhere because first, that was all the excitement I was up for, and second, the trailer has a busted signal light and a couple other things, it is not a young trailer. But gosh, I may feel a faint optimism!


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Yay!! Sounds like you may have solved your problem.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

@Avna, finally just read through this thread. Glad to hear you've had a chance to try another trailer.

I was just going to put in my two cents, which is that with the horses I've seen that had unresolvable problems in trailers, the solution was to find a different trailer they liked. A trailer is like a bit...with many horses, you can work with the bit and they'll eventually accept it. With a few horses, no matter how many miles you ride in the bit, the horse will continue to dislike it. Finding the bit the horse likes (or trailer) is the key.

You have a wonderful horse...no matter how much the trailer (or bit) cost, _that's_ the problem.  Just like bits, sometimes we can't figure out what it is the horse doesn't like about the trailer. And just because many people say that "every" horse will like this bit or trailer, some horses won't. Does every horse love carrots? No. Save yourself from sticking to what should work and go with what does.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

^ That's one reason my beat-up, ugly beast of a stock trailer is still around.... it works, it's solid, and the horses vastly prefer that and ride better in it than the fancy slant loads friends have costing more than my house.....


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

SilverMaple said:


> ^ That's one reason my beat-up, ugly beast of a stock trailer is still around.... it works, it's solid, and the horses vastly prefer that and ride better in it than the fancy slant loads friends have costing more than my house.....


I like stock trailers, although they are not the best for wet and snowy weather. However, that's not what I have a lot of here ... This one I am trying must weigh a thousand pounds more than my Brenderup. My truck feels it. 

If it turns out that Brooke has to have a new trailer I might try to find an aluminum stock used. That would cost about what I can sell the Brenderup for.


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## cef721 (Nov 24, 2016)

My friend had a horse like that. What she ended up doing – once she figured out the horse wasn't afraid of the trailer – she put the horse's food in the trailer. The horse could drink all it wanted, but the only way it could eat is when she took the horse to the trailer to load it. Horses will not starve themselves, generally. She'd load the horse, and if the horse acted up, she'd just take the horse out and let it go hungry.

I know it sounds mean. I have never had to do it with my horse, but it apparently worked for my friend pretty good.

Alternatively – and this is something I would do – is load her. If there is a cheap or beat up trailer at your barn, use that. Close her up, and leave her. Make sure she has food and water, but leave her until she settles. It is sort of like exposure therapy. Or teaching them learned helplessness. It might take hours – it probably will. But the second she calms down, pull her out and give her some treats. Then, do that every day – even several times a day.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I sure would buy aluminium, over those old heavy steel trailers


My son's trailer is a stock trailer, while mine is a stock, horse trailer combo
Both are aluminium.
Mine has heavy rubber matts, rubber padding half way up the inside walls, and sliding windows at the side, plus roof vents.
Not fancy, but horses feel comfortable

















No need to lock horses in trailers, feed them there. Work on confinement away from the trailer,, and the rest is easy, with stock type trailers preferred, without dividers


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

cef721 said:


> My friend had a horse like that. What she ended up doing – once she figured out the horse wasn't afraid of the trailer – she put the horse's food in the trailer. The horse could drink all it wanted, but the only way it could eat is when she took the horse to the trailer to load it. Horses will not starve themselves, generally. She'd load the horse, and if the horse acted up, she'd just take the horse out and let it go hungry.
> 
> I know it sounds mean. I have never had to do it with my horse, but it apparently worked for my friend pretty good.
> 
> Alternatively – and this is something I would do – is load her. If there is a cheap or beat up trailer at your barn, use that. Close her up, and leave her. Make sure she has food and water, but leave her until she settles. It is sort of like exposure therapy. Or teaching them learned helplessness. It might take hours – it probably will. But the second she calms down, pull her out and give her some treats. Then, do that every day – even several times a day.


Well, my horse IS afraid of the trailer, actually. What you are suggesting in the second case is a technique often called flooding, and it's a controversial method. Becoming catatonic with fear is not the outcome I'm looking for, really. And you can get that with flooding. The idea of pulling her out the instant she becomes calm -- after "hours" freaking out in the trailer -- is not very practical, as I would have to remain intensely focused on her for hours, so as to be ready . . . fact is, that's not going to happen.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Smilie said:


> I sure would buy aluminium, over those old heavy steel trailers
> 
> 
> My son's trailer is a stock trailer, while mine is a stock, horse trailer combo
> ...


I like your trailers but anything longer than a two horse (with a bumper pull anyway) won't make it over my bridge. 

Looking for a shorty, then.


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

Holy cow - I just now saw your post about her actually not giving you any trouble in that trailer. How awesome is that?! I love it when solutions turn out to be way easier than anticipated.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

newtrailriders said:


> Holy cow - I just now saw your post about her actually not giving you any trouble in that trailer. How awesome is that?! I love it when solutions turn out to be way easier than anticipated.


Well, I'm not getting excited until we go someplace. Then I will definitely get excited. Hopefully that will be day after tomorrow.


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

Good luck! Glad she did better so far in a different type of trailer! Also glad you decided to try it  Some horses just have preferences and STRONG opinions about them huh?


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

evilamc said:


> Good luck! Glad she did better so far in a different type of trailer! Also glad you decided to try it  Some horses just have preferences and STRONG opinions about them huh?


Brooke has strong opinions in general. She is all mare that way.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Rufus, my last horse, was a great loader, he would bounce into the horsebox with no problem but, long or short trip he would be wringing wet with sweat when he got to wherever we were going. Didn't matter if he was on his own or accompanied. As he usually was going Fox Hunting, when travelling g, one could say it was the anticipation of the hunt but, he would be as bad on the homeward journey too.


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

Avna said:


> Well, I'm not getting excited until we go someplace. Then I will definitely get excited. Hopefully that will be day after tomorrow.


So - tomorrow! Crossing my fingers! Woooohoooo! Can't wait to hear how it goes!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Okay, so as promised, inside view of my trailer, taken this past Friday, from a day ride out west
And, had to throw in one picture from the ride, LOL!


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

Well would you look at that horse standing in that trailer like it's no big deal!


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Smilie said:


> Okay, so as promised, inside view of my trailer, taken this past Friday, from a day ride out west
> And, had to throw in one picture from the ride, LOL!
> 
> View attachment 918906
> ...


This is essentially the same kind of space as the stock trailer I tried in the driveway. Just put a pony on the other side of the divider.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

So great to hear things went well Avna! Persistence pays! Oh, the things we do for our equines...


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

How did Brooke do on her trailer ride????? I keep checking back.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

While aluminum is lighter and (usually) requires less maintenance, having seen what aluminum does in frigid winter weather in even a minor accident, I will choose steel. Aluminum shatters and shears with even minor force, leaving knife-sharp points to impale horses/cattle/what have you. Steel bends. Since a lot of our winter weather is below zero, that's a significant concern for those of us who live in the north. 

We came upon an accident a couple of years ago involving two horse trailers. Both should have been relatively minor injuries -- two trailers hauling together in a snowstorm mistook a drift for the road and tipped the trailers sideways. They weren't going very fast and just laid the trailers over. The horses in the steel trailer had minor scrapes and bruises. One of the horses in the aluminum trailer had to be put down due to impalement. The other was badly injured. Someone rear-ended an aluminum cattle/stock trailer last winter here in town. The whole back of the trailer was knife-sharp shears that had to be cut away before the cattle could be unloaded. That, too was relatively minor and shouldn't have resulted in the damage it did. Aluminum is great until it's really cold. Then, not so much.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Well, I live in Alberta and where temps get to minus 30 C and greater, yet you will hardly see a steel trailer. We still have a steel stock trailer, but use it just for hauling hay and other odd jobs
Steel rusts, and requires much more maintenance. Heard of horses falling through the floor with their feet on some steel trailers
I have never been in an accident, and hope to keep it that way, so can't comment on what would happen, comparing steel to aluminium I guess we should all just drive 3/4 ton 4 X 4, versus any cars, also, Lol, if considering accident outcomes


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Well, I live in Alberta, where we can have very extreme winter temps, beyond minus 30 F.
You will hardly see a steel horse trailer.We still have a steel stock trailer, but use it just for hauling hay bales.
I have never been in an accident, so can't comment on steel versus aluminium, but steel rusts, and there have been accounts of horses falling with their feet through the floor.
I guess, if you base your decision on possible accident results, then we should likewise all just drive 3/4 ton 4 x4 trucks, versus cars
Mine is a comp sent, having a steel frame
Here is alink that might help, showing the pros and cons of each

Horse Trailers: Steel vs. Aluminum | Crossroads Trailer Sales Blog


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

For those on the edge of your saddles, I haven't gone out yet. It is supposed to be in the low 90's today (although it isn't yet, at noon), so I groomed, rode, turned the horses out in a small pasture and came home for lunch. I intend to load them after lunch and take them out on a short trip down the coast as a first experiment.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Horses fall through floors of aluminum trailers, too. All trailers require upkeep and maintenance, not just steel. I was at a draft horse field day this weekend, and one of the teamsters was saying he had a Belgian slip and go down in an aluminum trailer, kicking through the side wall in two places. He's never had a horse make more than a dent, and is going back to steel. He's not the only one I know who had aluminum and replaced it with steel. Steel is also much easier to work on, and nearly anywhere can repair it, which is important for many. It also flexes, which is important for rough roads, extreme temps, or heavy loads.

And yes, I do consider accident outcomes when purchasing vehicles, trailers, etc. I'm not so much worried about myself as about the idiots on the road not paying attention who could very easily hit my trailer or vehicle due to their inattentiveness.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

When I make a decision about whether to change trailers, I will start a new thread!!


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Bravo Avna and Brooke! Well done. Yup, seems Brooke is claustrophobic! Hmm... I'm guessing she can't be ridden on a tight rein, like someone clamping up on the reins when they are nervous. Some horses will explode over that type of reaction. Just musings.

I'll be watching for your next update.

I don't know if I was the first but... _*cough* I suggested the stock trailer *cough*_  :lol:

Not being proud, I'm just always super happy when one of my suggestions helps somebody. :wink:


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

lol yes I am on the edge of my saddle, waiting for a trailering update


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

horseluvr2524 said:


> Bravo Avna and Brooke! Well done. Yup, seems Brooke is claustrophobic! Hmm... I'm guessing she can't be ridden on a tight rein, like someone clamping up on the reins when they are nervous. Some horses will explode over that type of reaction. Just musings.
> 
> I'll be watching for your next update.
> 
> ...


I don't clamp up on my reins when I'm nervous -- I'm the other kind ("close your fingers!"), so I don't know about the first one. However, I have learned that when she starts getting coiled up for any reason, to just stop everything and stand there and breathe with her for a bit, is what works. 

It could have been you suggesting the stock trailer. I suggest you take the credit . . .


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Update #3:

I'm always very low-energy in the early afternoon but I really wanted to find out how Brooke would do riding in a slant, so I girded myself up, pulled the stock trailer out, went back to the pasture and walked Brooke and Dusty over (it's about a quarter mile). Dusty fussed more loading but eventually he got in. 

Brooke would not load. She was doing her rearing and sidling thing again. I didn't have the energy to fight her, I just didn't. I was losing my temper. I tried lunging her in the arena but Dusty started freaking out in the trailer, I think he fell in there and cut his cheek on the un-padded swing divider bar. Things were going badly. However my instructor was home, she came out and got Brooke into the trailer with the use of the flag and the lunge line. I locked up and drove away, feeling very rattled and close to the end of my ability to cope.

The first thing that happened was that, despite all my care, I got wedged on the bridge turn. This is extremely easy to do. I have even done it once in my much narrower Brenderup. I totally lost it, screamed at the top of my voice, and sobbed until I choked, all the while slowly carefully extricating myself. I already hate that trailer. 

Brooke however was perfectly calm back there. She was tied but there was no pawing or stomping at all that I could tell. 

Managed to get up the hill to the main road only skidding out a little, and drove carefully the five miles to the freeway, which at 3 pm was stop and go. I discovered that I needed a lot more room to stop than with the Brenderup (which also has its own brakes). It is very heavy for its size. Felt like I was hauling tons of bricks. Brooke and Dusty were very quiet, although in the Brenderup, on the bumpy main road and the many stoplights through town and really any time it seemed like we were slowing or stopping or turning, Brooke normally would lose it. It was weird when she didn't. 

I drove south for awhile until the traffic completely stopped, then I got off the freeway and turned around and came back. Not a whisper back there. 

Got stuck on the bridge turn coming in. Only took five or ten minutes of backing and repositioning to get over the bridge. Then I got stuck turning into the barn driveway, which is narrow. Got myself unstuck, drove in, took the horses out, walked them back to the pasture. Brooke was not even damp. Dusty was a little sweaty. His cut was superficial. But he definitely had a bit of a bad experience. 

Then I tried to get the trailer backed into its slot again. Guess what? I couldn't. My instructor had to do it for me. 

So . . . I love my Brenderup, Brooke hates it. Brooke loves the slant load, I hate it. Who will get what they want? 

Guess!


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

Just another day in the horse world LOL! Why do we torture ourselves this way? You know we could spend all this time and $ getting our hair and nails done and going to malls, decorating our houses etc., right? Instead we drive big trucks down little winding roads and over bridges, screaming our heads off, and come home proud of ourselves. They say horse girls are crazy - we have to be to willingly put ourselves through all this crap.

Congrats on figuring out what works for your horse. One of these days you'll be proud of the way you can get your trailer home without getting stuck.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

SilverMaple said:


> Horses fall through floors of aluminum trailers, too. All trailers require upkeep and maintenance, not just steel. I was at a draft horse field day this weekend, and one of the teamsters was saying he had a Belgian slip and go down in an aluminum trailer, kicking through the side wall in two places. He's never had a horse make more than a dent, and is going back to steel. He's not the only one I know who had aluminum and replaced it with steel. Steel is also much easier to work on, and nearly anywhere can repair it, which is important for many. It also flexes, which is important for rough roads, extreme temps, or heavy loads.
> 
> And yes, I do consider accident outcomes when purchasing vehicles, trailers, etc. I'm not so much worried about myself as about the idiots on the road not paying attention who could very easily hit my trailer or vehicle due to their inattentiveness.


Yes, that is true, as I just replaced the floor in my aluminum trailer last fall. My matts are just way to heavy to take out after every trip, and rinse that urine, that tend to keep a wet spot between the floor and the matts, even though I use lots of shavings
Anyone who has a horse go down, obviously does not have good matts and shavings. My matts provide lots of traction, with the floor material being not relevant. I also have matting half way up the walls on the inside, so that draft person did not have a safe trailer regardless of materials
I also haul on highways, and yes, there are always idiots that feel the need to fill in the space between you and the vehicle ahead.
At the same time, professional horse haulers that I know, use aluminium or composite trailers, and they haul right across Canada and down into the southern part of the States
I have friends, heavily involved n the reining/working Cowhorse circuit, thus haul not only in Canada, but down into the states to places like Las Vegas They put miles on , more then the average person, and haul with aluminium trailers
What I am more concerned about, is hauling power, and won't haul with anything less then a 3/4 ton diesel 4 x 4 or a 3/4 heavy duty 3/4 ton gas truck. That is where accident prevention really occurs, because power out on a mountain road, and you are SOL
Far as up keep , certainly all trailers need that, packing wheel bearings, checking brakes and wiring, but I do not need to sand blast and paint my aluminum trailer every other year, like the steel one
If you are talking about cold and rough roads, you are preaching to the choir, as I live in Alberta-check it out!
I also haul on about as rough trails that there are- prime mountain wilderness


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

AHH, but you did find out the type of trailer makes a huge difference, as I hoped would happen, so that a solution would occur.
You know, you just might upgrade to a gooseneck slant load, and I can tell you it is like night and day, between pulling it and a bumper pull. So much more maneuverability, even before I got a short box, and I hardly ever notice that I have a trailer behind me
I know from experience, that while many horses will tolerate a straight load, and even dividers, their relaxation in a slant load stock, is like night and day. You would need to be a horse, to see what difference it makes in comfort and =balance! All I know is that it does!


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Smilie said:


> AHH, but you did find out the type of trailer makes a huge difference, as I hoped would happen, so that a solution would occur.
> You know, you just might upgrade to a gooseneck slant load, and I can tell you it is like night and day, between pulling it and a bumper pull. So much more maneuverability, even before I got a short box, and I hardly ever notice that I have a trailer behind me
> I know from experience, that while many horses will tolerate a straight load, and even dividers, their relaxation in a slant load stock, is like night and day. You would need to be a horse, to see what difference it makes in comfort and =balance! All I know is that it does!


Don't tempt me! Not ready for a gooseneck yet . . .


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

I agree on the gooseneck. Way way way way way easier.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

No gooseneck discussion please.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Poor Avna! What an ordeal. But hey, Brooke rode nice! Imagine dealing with that trailer crap, and Ms. Nerveball in the back pawing like a maniac.

I think you will be able to find a narrower stock trailer with brakes (yikes that the borrowed trailer didn't have them, wouldn't recommend using it again. no wonder you felt the weight of it so much. brakes make a huge difference as I have towed with and without). Great news that at least the trailer riding part of the problem is fixed! Now just have to talk to her about her occasional loading problems :wink:

If you can find an older stock trailer that's been refurbished with brakes and such, that may fit the bill of being narrower. All the newer trailers are wide. Seems like they get wider every year. I wonder how people manage to maneuver those giants into those backwoods riding places. Seems like a miracle lol.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

horseluvr2524 said:


> Poor Avna! What an ordeal. But hey, Brooke rode nice! Imagine dealing with that trailer crap, and Ms. Nerveball in the back pawing like a maniac.
> .


Yeah, I thought of that too .... she made me so incredibly nervous every time we went anywhere. She would have been working on tearing the trailer apart when I had to back up and reposition all those times.

On the other hand, I never (almost never) got wedged with the Brenderup.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

newtrailriders said:


> I agree on the gooseneck. Way way way way way easier.


But not easier to find a place to park it.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

I've been busy and hadn't checked in for a while... just want to say you are one brave lady! I can't believe I am towing a trailer, but mine is a fairly easy one to tow, and by comparison, Harley isn't too bad in there (although we had issues at first, we sorted them out). You are an inspiration! The things we do for our horses...


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

@Avna I am wondering if Brooke's issues have something to do with the Brenderup being so lightweight? I was talking with a lady I go to church with and she has a Brenderup. We have never ridden together but talk riding occasionally. She happened to ask me if I knew anyone interested in purchasing her Brenderup as she is getting out of horses due to health issues. We talked a bit and she confided that of her 2 geldings - 1 absolutely hated the Brenderup - but would load and ride well in her friends 2 horse slant load. She would never ride that horse unless her friend agreed to pick them up. She said she tried all kinds of things with no luck. She loves her Brenderup - she is a single lady in her late 60's and finds that the lighterweight allows her to drive a smaller vehicle which she feels more comfortable doing. But her gelding Lexus - just hates that trailer.

Thought you might find her story interesting. Horses can be weird!


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

carshon said:


> @Avna I am wondering if Brooke's issues have something to do with the Brenderup being so lightweight? I was talking with a lady I go to church with and she has a Brenderup. We have never ridden together but talk riding occasionally. She happened to ask me if I knew anyone interested in purchasing her Brenderup as she is getting out of horses due to health issues. We talked a bit and she confided that of her 2 geldings - 1 absolutely hated the Brenderup - but would load and ride well in her friends 2 horse slant load. She would never ride that horse unless her friend agreed to pick them up. She said she tried all kinds of things with no luck. She loves her Brenderup - she is a single lady in her late 60's and finds that the lighterweight allows her to drive a smaller vehicle which she feels more comfortable doing. But her gelding Lexus - just hates that trailer.
> 
> Thought you might find her story interesting. Horses can be weird!


I think there is something to that. It doesn't feel very solid (although it is in fact very strong), at least compared to the cast iron box I hauled yesterday (okay it just felt like that) and, possibly more important, it flexes to every movement of the horse or bump in the road.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Horses have acute senses, and while we don't understand as to why they prefer to ride in a slant load trailer, completely, to the horse there is enough of a real reason-enough horses have said so, LOL!
I have never heard on any horse who preferred a straight load tow horse trailer over a stock. Perhaps they are out there, but data does say something!


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Avna, every stock trailer I've ever seen, even the cheapos, have electric brakes. It sometimes takes a bit of trial and error to get them adjusted correctly, but they are a legal requirement in most states, so don't let that put you off. If you decide to get a new trailer, it will most likely have them, and any dealer can help you get them working correctly. If your tow vehicle doesn't have them, that's easily remedied, too. Most newer trucks and SUV's have the wiring in place, you just have to find it and plug in the box. Brenderups have something similar to surge brakes--- most horse trailers have electric brakes instead.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

SilverMaple said:


> Avna, every stock trailer I've ever seen, even the cheapos, have electric brakes. It sometimes takes a bit of trial and error to get them adjusted correctly, but they are a legal requirement in most states, so don't let that put you off. If you decide to get a new trailer, it will most likely have them, and any dealer can help you get them working correctly. If your tow vehicle doesn't have them, that's easily remedied, too. Most newer trucks and SUV's have the wiring in place, you just have to find it and plug in the box. Brenderups have something similar to surge brakes--- most horse trailers have electric brakes instead.


I know my truck has the wiring in place. It's brand new and I bought the tow package among other things.

I'm checking the brake situation. I am also actively shopping for a lighter narrower slant load than the borrowed one, which has many other irritating features besides the weight and the width, including that I have to haul all the(messy) owners' tack, a 20 gallon water tank, and a set of steel pipe portable corral panels wherever I might go in it, since they have no intention of emptying it or letting me do so.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Prices are probably higher in your area than here in the midwest, but a decent 2-horse stock trailer sells for about $4500 on average, brand new. If you want all the bells and whistles like load lights, ceiling vents, wall mats, etc. it's going to cost more, but I would say that 80% of the horse owners in this area, even those who have big living-quarters slant loads for showing/multi-day camping, also have one of these for day trips/vet visits/shorter hauls: http://www.octrailers.com/horse_1.html 

or these if they need a tack area: Horse Trailer #2

Add some mats if they aren't already there, and most horses ride very happily in them and they last forever if you do basic maintenance. I know more than one person from California who has bought one and had it shipped for less than they could buy a 2-horse stock/combo in California.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

SilverMaple said:


> Prices are probably higher in your area than here in the midwest, but a decent 2-horse stock trailer sells for about $4500 on average, brand new. If you want all the bells and whistles like load lights, ceiling vents, wall mats, etc. it's going to cost more, but I would say that 80% of the horse owners in this area, even those who have big living-quarters slant loads for showing/multi-day camping, also have one of these for day trips/vet visits/shorter hauls: http://www.octrailers.com/horse_1.html
> 
> or these if they need a tack area: Horse Trailer #2
> 
> Add some mats if they aren't already there, and most horses ride very happily in them and they last forever if you do basic maintenance. I know more than one person from California who has bought one and had it shipped for less than they could buy a 2-horse stock/combo in California.


I'm going for aluminum. Used aluminum slants are about what my Brenderup is worth.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Acadianartist said:


> I've been busy and hadn't checked in for a while... just want to say you are one brave lady! I can't believe I am towing a trailer, but mine is a fairly easy one to tow, and by comparison, Harley isn't too bad in there (although we had issues at first, we sorted them out). You are an inspiration! The things we do for our horses...


I am not brave, although go ahead and think so!

What I am, is really stubborn. After all, my choices were looking like

1. give up and sell my horse whom I have trained myself and is perfect for me just because I can't get her to be happy in the trailer. 
2. kill my horse with a hammer in a fit of frustrated rage.
3. keep trying to solve the problem.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

@Avna we have a 3 horse slant Titan Trailer and absolutely love it. I am not sure how popular they are in your area but we do see quite a few of them here in IL. My friend has a 2 horse slant Ttitan (Avalanche 2) and hauls it with a smaller truck. Used Titans is my area go for about $4K


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

Maybe you can find a nice used Featherlite? Whatever you do DO NOT buy an Eclipse! Anyone I've met that owns one has had nothing but problems with it. They are a great size and look nice...but fall apart!

If you can find one of these used it could be a good option? You can use it as a 2 horse straight or a stock trailer. It only weighs 2100lbs.
Horse Trailers - Bumper Pull Horse Trailers - 9401 Horse Trailer


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

If she hauls decently in a stock trailer, she still may not haul decently in an enclosed trailer with drop-downs. I'd borrow a few more trailers, and if possible, rent the one you're considering before purchase.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

SilverMaple said:


> If she hauls decently in a stock trailer, she still may not haul decently in an enclosed trailer with drop-downs. I'd borrow a few more trailers, and if possible, rent the one you're considering before purchase.


Good advice. My instructor has a regular slant with drop downs, I want to take a trip in that one too.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

carshon said:


> @Avna we have a 3 horse slant Titan Trailer and absolutely love it. I am not sure how popular they are in your area but we do see quite a few of them here in IL. My friend has a 2 horse slant Ttitan (Avalanche 2) and hauls it with a smaller truck. Used Titans is my area go for about $4K


They are hard to find out here, and they weigh about 3 thousand, being steel. Hoping to find something a bit lighter. Looking at a Featherlite 9408 (aluminum) this weekend.


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

Avna said:


> They are hard to find out here, and they weigh about 3 thousand, being steel. Hoping to find something a bit lighter. Looking at a Featherlite 9408 (aluminum) this weekend.


Ohh good luck! I have the 9409! Pretty much same thing I think though. 2 horse slant with dressing room. I love it!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Something like this perhaps

2 Horse WW Slant Load Aluminum Trailer


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Smilie said:


> Horses have acute senses, and while we don't understand as to why they prefer to ride in a slant load trailer, completely, to the horse there is enough of a real reason-enough horses have said so, LOL!
> I have never heard on any horse who preferred a straight load tow horse trailer over a stock. Perhaps they are out there, but data does say something!


My horse prefers the straight load over the slant load. Went with a friend in her 3 horse aluminum slant load. Took both my geldings and her gelding. Mine loaded fine to ride there. I was a bit concerned because I have a ramp and hers is a step up. Horses stepped right up though. However, not so easy on the way back! They did not want to get back on that trailer at all. Both are self-loading horses, so loading is never a problem normally.

We did eventually get them on, but after that we drove separate. 

On the drive back they were restless and shifting a lot, normally they ride quiet.

My 16.1 h appendix didn't like to load or ride too well in my Brenderup, until we drove to Florida one time. After that he was ok, even unloaded him at a gas station when my van broke down! 

I was really glad to have the Brenderup on that trip, because it would have been impossible with any other trailer to unload the horse, remove the trailer from the back of my van, and push it over to a friends truck to hook up, then reload the horse. 

My horses have all done well in another friends huge warmblood sized Sundowner straight load. They load and ride the same in the Sundowner as they do the Brenderup, but they don't like the slant load.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

@Avna I am really glad to hear you had a successful ride in the borrowed trailer! 

Would you consider trying another trip with the pony along in the Brenderup? It would be good to try it one time before giving up on a trailer you love.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

AnitaAnne said:


> @Avna I am really glad to hear you had a successful ride in the borrowed trailer!
> 
> Would you consider trying another trip with the pony along in the Brenderup? It would be good to try it one time before giving up on a trailer you love.


To be honest, no. 

With great struggle and two people we got her stuffed into the Brenderup with the divider up (so it was a straight load). Just parked in the driveway. She pawed nonstop for twenty minutes and the only reason she didn't do anything else is because she didn't have the room. 

She hates that trailer.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

AnitaAnne said:


> My horse prefers the straight load over the slant load. Went with a friend in her 3 horse aluminum slant load. Took both my geldings and her gelding. Mine loaded fine to ride there. I was a bit concerned because I have a ramp and hers is a step up. Horses stepped right up though. However, not so easy on the way back! They did not want to get back on that trailer at all. Both are self-loading horses, so loading is never a problem normally.
> 
> We did eventually get them on, but after that we drove separate.
> 
> ...


Well, there you go. Who was it said upthread that trailers are like bits? What works perfect for one horse, another horse will fight to the end. Apparently. 

It's true that maybe if I drove from California to Florida and back, Brooke would become inured to the Brenderup. But if all I have to do is trade trailers, that's a LOT easier.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Well, Florida is only six hours from me so not that long of a trip, lol. 

I think straight loads are maybe a lot more common here with many show people, Dressage and eventers for example. Seems like everyone has a F-250 or an F-350 diesel pulling a Sundowner! 

So lots of horses and people are just more used to the straight loads. 

I see more stock trailers at the little local $5 shows and with trail riders. Some drive slant loads too, but don't see as many. 

This is a trailer you might want to consider if you decide to buy a new trailer. I like the double doors at the back. 

http://www.bigtextrailerworld.com/c...=59a6333ac1784&inventory_id=23337&user_id=449


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

AnitaAnne said:


> Well, Florida is only six hours from me so not that long of a trip, lol.
> 
> I think straight loads are maybe a lot more common here with many show people, Dressage and eventers for example. Seems like everyone has a F-250 or an F-350 diesel pulling a Sundowner!
> 
> ...


Nice trailer but out of my price range. 

I'd say straight loads, which were once ubiquitous here, are now in the minority at least where I go (not horse shows). Slants and stock trailers are now more common than straights, and everybody wants a gooseneck LQ if they don't already have one. When I go to horse camps, that's what virtually everyone has except me. That or a big slant pulled by a truck with a cabover. 

I sleep in a tent. I will keep sleeping in a tent. Been doing it all my life and see no reason to change. 

Found a buddy last time who just sleeps in his little old stock trailer with the back door open so he can see his horse. He's a minimalist. I like that.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Nothing wrong with a tent. When we started to haul horses, all we had were stock racks, thus loading and un loading could be tricky, where there were no ramps!
Out west, we either backed against a hill, or drove the truck into a ditch.
NOw, there was a chellenge, loading and un loading horses, not to mention driving with two horses shifting around in the box of that truck!
I' have a picture of 'minimal, but am way too old for that now! Packed in, just a wall tent, no heat and temps way below freezing!
Even used stock racks, hauling to our first shows, taking a tent along. One time, getting there late, a friend advised us that rather then setting up our tent, we could just throw it over the stall front, of a stall that was empty.
Not much sleep that night, with hroses banging around in stalls, calling and dedicated people riding at 2 in the morning!
First horse trailer , was a home made two horse, with a ramp that did up with wing nut screws, providing that trailer was sitting very level, lol
Next, was a steel stock trailer, that would straight load four horses, with a divider between the front two and the back two.I would haul a stud, in that back part, facing backwards, for obvious reasons!
Had a camper on back of the truck, and hauled tack in and out of it
Now have that three horse angle haul aluminium gooseneck. Great for sleeping in, during the warm months, as it has a very comfortable mattress in the over hang part.
Show facilities have showers and bathrooms, plus a concession
Hauling out west, well, in camps there are outhouses, and running rivers
Gets cold, and we take our out fitter tent, with stove

First two pictures are from memory lane, where both the horses and ourselves really were with minimal amedities
Last one is present trailer,(far left, with son's on the right), where I or both hubby and myself sleep


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Here is another one I have considered many, many times, because it seems to have a lot of good qualities, and light weight where one would not need a huge truck to haul it. 

Still has those double doors, lol. When I had a 16' stock trailer, one of the things I really hated was the big huge door on the back with the useless slider. Never used the slider and don't know anyone who did! In my stock trailer I would use the whole front for tack & camping supplies, and the horses went in the back. Was plenty of space in the front for a couple of cots. 

Now I sleep on a cot in one of the stalls in my trailer. Or in my truck tent. Really depends on if I will need to be driving my truck around the campground. 

Anyway, here's the trailer

Sundowner Stock Trailer Bumper Pull Stock Trailer :: Dixie Horse & Mule Co


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Here is another brand that has become very popular around here because they are light weight and reasonable price. I know folks with straight and slant loads in this brand Trailer USA, and they are very happy with them. 

For Sale: Horse Trailer Manufacturer Info USA, Inc


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Trying the link again...

For Sale: Horse Trailer Manufacturer Info USA, Inc


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Ok, guess one has to go to a dealer website for the link to work...random dealer link

Trailers USA 2 Horse Trailer


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

The sliding door on the back is for people who want to use it for both horses and cattle/hogs. For other livestock, you often load with a loading chute or narrow alley, and having that slider is a lot easier than a big swinging door when animals run in loose can get back out. I use the slider on mine sometimes if I have a horse in the back compartment of the stock trailer and need to slip in to check him, etc. I can slide it open just a bit, slip in, and not open the whole door. When I'd ride horses at the stock yards on auction day, buyers would back up the trailer to the loading alley, open the slider, and we'd run the cattle in and the owner would close the slider and pull out. Easy, fast, no need to open the door, back in, close the door partway to prevent escapees, pull forward, close the door, and finally be able to go. A lot of people use a trailer for both cattle and horses, so it's a popular option and can help resale of a trailer in areas where people use a trailer for more than just horses.

Double back doors or one big door is personal preference. Wind makes a difference. If your trailer doesn't have it and you load alone, install a drop rod onto the door so you can open the door, drop the rod, and the door will stay open and not blow shut when your horse is halfway in.

As for slant vs. straight load-- some of the stock trailers have the slant at an angle where a large horse feels squeezed in. Bigger horses need a longer slant, but may still have to stand sideways inside the compartment to get enough room and can feel squeezed. Manufacturers want to claim their trailers are for the highest number of horses and the lowest length they can, so they will claim a trailer is a 3-horse when it should probably be a 2-horse if you have big horses. Unfortunately, most slant-style trailers are sized for quarter horses. A horse over 16 hands may feel very uncomfortable in one, particularly if there are mangers or a wheel well taking up part of his space. Some horses like dividers and don't feel comfortable in an open stock, especially if they've learned to use the divider for balance. Others are uncomfortable riding with strange horses. Most of that can be overcome with experience and miles, but the horse's comfort is important. If he doesn't like something, change it. A friend of mine bought a 4-horse slant and his horses weren't fans. He took out two dividers so it's now a 2-horse slant, and they load and ride happily. His big Tennessee Walkers just felt too squished in the divider width it came in, and he takes out the dividers completely if he wants to haul three, and they do ok with that. Stock horses tend to deal with being uncomfortable and eventually will just live with it. Other breeds may protest vociferously.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Ditto on removing dividers, which are only needed, if hauling a stud, or perhaps, other people's hroses, who are not familiar withe each other.
Even so, I haul with both my friend and my son, plus take turns hauling, and none of us use dividers in our stock trailers
I hardly ever use that small door, and just keep a piece of 2 x 4 in my trailer, to prop the door open, against swinging shut, when loading or un loading
I never want a horse to learn to balance by leaning against a divider. Those horses often turn into scramblers. Nope, removing dividers, helps a horse to balance on his own four feet, like he should!
My one friend , used to share a stock trailer with her hubby, who hauled cows in it. She often had to wash and clean it before a horse show. Much nicer when she got a trailer just for her horses!


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Smilie said:


> Ditto on removing dividers, which are only needed, if hauling a stud, or perhaps, other people's hroses, who are not familiar withe each other.
> Even so, I haul with both my friend and my son, plus take turns hauling, and none of us use dividers in our stock trailers
> I hardly ever use that small door, and just keep a piece of 2 x 4 in my trailer, to prop the door open, against swinging shut, when loading or un loading
> I never want a horse to learn to balance by leaning against a divider. Those horses often turn into scramblers. Nope, removing dividers, helps a horse to balance on his own four feet, like he should!
> My one friend , used to share a stock trailer with her hubby, who hauled cows in it. She often had to wash and clean it before a horse show. Much nicer when she got a trailer just for her horses!


So do you tie your horses 'slanted' i.e. where they would be tied if the divider was there? Or do you tie at all?


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Can't speak for smilie, but I generally tie-- horses shifting around on the road, especially if there are curves or you're hauling a bumper pull, can be dangerous and cause you to lose control. I tie just like there were dividers if I'm not using them and the horses stand at an angle. A lot of ranchers and polo teams will tie horses on every other side-- so the first horse in ties to the left side of the trailer, the next horse in to the right side, then the third horse to the left and so on. It does tend to help when the horses don't know each other and there are no dividers-- they're less likely to start bickering and carrying on. We regularly hauled horses who hadn't been together that way, and no issues. If your trailer has dividers, do not tie in a reverse slant. The reverse, if used for all of the horses, generally needs a little different engineering on the trailer or it will be unbalanced to the outside, to I tie to the left most of the time. 


In a stock trailer with a gate, you can either take the gate out or tie it back to the wall and tie at a slant, or tie the front horses straight ahead, and the back horses at an angle. Or if you're only hauling two horses in a 4-horse stock, you can get away with hauling loose if you know they'll stand well by putting one in the front half, one in the back with the gate closed.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

I'm looking at either an old Featherlite 2H 9408 slant or a new Maverick 2H stock trailer (both aluminum), right now. That being what is available in my price and weight range within a reasonable drive at the moment.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

I always tied my horses for the reasons that others have stated.

However, Isabeau, my trailer kicker, does not tie. She is terribly claustrophobic and hauls much better not tied. Now that I can haul her with another horse, they both ride untied, and so far, all has gone well.

Although my trailer was designed to be a straight load, I have been having to haul some horses who hate each other, and discovered that they haul together quite well as long as they are loaded at a slant. We had a miserable time trying to load them side by side, because as soon as one would go in, the other one would not, seeing his or her hated enemy in there. The hated enemy would immediately swing sideways (I don't have a partition, and even if I had one, I wouldn't use it for reasons others have stated) so the other one couldn't load. When we started putting them in sideways, everyone was happy, and they've been loading and hauling nicely ever since. I do tie the enemies, and since I have an open stock trailer, I tie to the side supports.

I have never hauled Isabeau with her enemy because mainly, her enemy is my other riding horse and why would I bring both my horses. I can only ride one. 

This is completely off-topic, but very funny. When taking enemies on camping trips, they immediately bond when stalled or penned next to each other, ride together beautifully, scream for each other when left. But as soon as they get home and back together in my large pasture, they go back to hating each other. Horses have so much personality!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Avna said:


> So do you tie your horses 'slanted' i.e. where they would be tied if the divider was there? Or do you tie at all?


I always tie, as in the picture I posted. Carmen is loaded already, and Rubix then goes next to her. The horses themselves stand at an angle that they prefer.
Only time I hauled loose was when hauling a mare and foal, in which case, the mare was tied and the foal left loose.
Other exception ,would be when I bought some un halter broke weanlings

You can see the quick release red tie, which will be for Rubix. Those stay in my trailer, and I just hook them up to that, exchanging it for their regular lead shank. I used to just tie them with the lead shank and a quick release knot, however, in case of a wreak, they will not release quick enough, and can pull tight, so I finally got those quick release trailer ties, with the snap set up being the quick release
Worst wreak, or near wreak i ever had, was when I powered out on a snow packed final hill into the mountains, during a late sheep hunt. I had made all the other hills in, no problem, in 4 x 4, but that last one is tricky, where you can't get any run at al lat it, due to a sharp curve, and then it goes up very steeply. Anyway, truck slid out, even in 4 X 4 (yes should have had chains), and the trailer then pulled me backwards. I tried to steer, by trailer went at right angle, and over the bank, just when I was wondering at which point I should bail! Trailer suddenly stopped, with truck still part way on the road. I did not know what had stopped us, and jumped out, placing boulders I most likely could never have lifted, behind wheels\
Only then did I see what stopped our plunge. It was a small group of popular, growing exactly a bit down from where we had gone over the edge. The horses were pawing, as they were at a steep angle. I was still hauling our old steel stock trailer. Could not get the horses out, taht rear door, blocked by the trees. That trailer had a little side door in front, not meant for horses, but they got out through it!


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Yeah, horses that aren't halter-broke aren't tied, for obvious reasons


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Just to show the forgiving nature of horses, they loaded back in, on the trip home, without any hesitation
Someone from the campground, heard me leaning on the horn, and came with a truck and chains to pull us out.
We did go for several days of riding, but I thought of that trip home the entire time. I rode my horse out and, ponyed hubby's over the first few hills, while he took truck and trailer out empty
A picture from that ride


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

SilverMaple said:


> Yeah, horses that aren't halter-broke aren't tied, for obvious reasons


Well, you know, kinda like those disclaimer warnings that coffee can be hot, LOL!


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Another tip: If you haul horses untied, do not use dividers (the gate in the stock rack is probably ok) because if a horse gets his head turned too far in slant or straight dividers, he will often panic and take the trailer apart when he finds he can't easily turn it back. Tying him properly prevents that issue altogether.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Update #3

Today my instructor was delivering a horse from her barn to one of her students, and offered to take Brooke with her, to see how she did in yet a different trailer. She has an extra-wide and tall 2 horse slant with windows and double rear doors. Of course I said yes. 

Brooke loaded fairly easily, for her anyway -- she definitely gets into a step up much more readily than a ramp. And she was just as quiet with a strange gelding in the other slot as she was with Dusty there. It was very hot weather, record-breaking heat, which worried me. And then my instructor forgot the name of the road she was supposed to take and we ended up slowly grinding around being lost on all the small winding poorly-paved farm roads in the foothills while the horses sweltered in the back and we sweltered in the front, her air conditioning having failed. She had neglected to take a map, or gps, or directions, and her student, waiting for her, had forgotten to turn her phone on . . . 

That was difficult. I hate being lost like death itself, because I have a poor sense of direction and cannot find my way out of being lost using my natural gifts. I also hate being hot. I don't even like being warm. However, we did eventually find the stable and unload the horses. Brooke was only somewhat sweaty. We hosed her down before we put her back in alone. 

She was not at all bad, even all alone, until we turned in on our private road (where she always went into loose buffalo mode in the Brenderup) -- she started up pawing and was pretty annoying. Still, that's only a five minute stretch. 

All in all, a very hard test, and she was dead quiet with another horse and only sort of restless alone. She was dripping wet coming out at the end, but it had to be a hundred degrees in that trailer. 

The day before, I had gone out with my friend who gave me Brooke to begin with, to the trailer sales place a half mile from her ranch. Their aluminum horse trailer line is mostly Maverick. They had a number of variations of 2 horse slants with the same basic plan, with stock type sides and a single rear door, or with double doors and drop windows/slide windows, in aluminum, steel, and steel with an aluminum skin. Various prices and weights. I couldn't really decide. 

But the slow trip through burning heat decided me -- a stock type ventilation system would have been much better in that situation. You can always put a blanket on a cold horse, but cooling them down inside a metal box in the sun is a lot bigger challenge, it seems to me. 

May buy a trailer tomorrow . . .


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Good luck trailer shopping!
Yes, you can always blanket, and if it gets more then 20 below C, I don't haul anyways.
I have also seen where people had plexiglass sliders installed in their stock trailers,for winter
Ventilation is very important. My trailer,as you can see, has slider windows, plus roof vents
It was 30 C yesterday, when we hauled for a day ride tot he mountains , and the horses never sweated. Nice to ride somewhere high when it gets hot, as it is always cooler, plus the trail we chose, is treed
I don't blanket my horses in the winter, but do blanket if I haul to an indoor arena, plus leave that blanket on over night, when I get home


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Trailer pics:

Maverick Lite 2H slant all aluminum. I particularly wanted the "jailhouse" divider, more airflow and lets the front horse especially have more room to balance. I know some people swear by the solid stud dividers in case of fights but in this case I want Brooke to be able to communicate with her friend. I thought about the double doors vs the single too. The single is harder parked on a slant (door either won't stay open or won't stay closed), but it seems less fuss to get it latched. Anything for less fuss! Comments? I haven't bought it yet....


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

I like it! I like that it doesn't have a rear tack. Some people love them, I hate how much space they take up I love having the nice open area in back!


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

evilamc said:


> I like it! I like that it doesn't have a rear tack. Some people love them, I hate how much space they take up I love having the nice open area in back!


Yes, I really did not want a rear tack. The last thing I was looking for was a way to make the entrance of the trailer be dark and narrow! I am sure that one reason Brooke goes so much more easily into the slant is because it is so open-looking.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

My only comment is that I am jealous. I don't know much about trailers.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Celeste said:


> My only comment is that I am jealous. I don't know much about trailers.


I am just learning myself. The Brenderup, I just fell into -- there was an animal-hoarder neighbor who needed money fast so sold me her virtually-unused trailer for several thousand less than it was worth. Then came the learning curve.


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## SwissMiss (Aug 1, 2014)

Very nice; I like it! And am just stealing the idea of the organizer on the door!
The door in the back should have a little stake that you can put on the ground to keep it open... Works like a charm for me.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Looks nice, except I am no fan of dividers

Horses feel better without them, plus for me, they defeat the purpose of any quick release set up, in case of an emergency. Just my preference


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

She does have a horse and a pony, though. If the mare does ok with the divider, it would help prevent the small pony from getting slammed and trampled if the mare decides to have a bit of a tantrum.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

SilverMaple said:


> She does have a horse and a pony, though. If the mare does ok with the divider, it would help prevent the small pony from getting slammed and trampled if the mare decides to have a bit of a tantrum.


Exactly my thinking. Pony protection.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Avna said:


> I know my truck has the wiring in place. It's brand new and I bought the tow package among other things.
> 
> I'm checking the brake situation. I am also actively shopping for a lighter narrower slant load than the borrowed one, which has many other irritating features besides the weight and the width, including that I have to haul all the(messy) owners' tack, a 20 gallon water tank, and a set of steel pipe portable corral panels wherever I might go in it, since they have no intention of emptying it or letting me do so.


They have their trailer set up how they like it. Be thankful they are letting you use it.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

natisha said:


> They have their trailer set up how they like it. Be thankful they are letting you use it.


You're so right. I am thankful, because it was a key, if not the key, to finding a path out of my seemingly insoluble problem. I bet if I hadn't gotten stuck three times and cried my guts out sitting on the bridge totally stuck, I would be more in contact with my gratitude. It was also pretty **** scary putting on the brakes and still moving forward toward the cars stopped in front of me. All in all a very draining experience, though so fruitful. 

The hard fact is, I am not, as a person, at all well-suited to solving problems involving tons of metal and horse going down a road at speed. I'm more of a planting daisies in a window box level of person. I am emotionally fragile, hypersensitive, un-resilient, risk-averse, and low-energy. So this whole thing is probably a lot different for me than it would be for a lot of people. 

I am feeling grateful though.


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## whisperbaby22 (Jan 25, 2013)

That is the same basic set up that I have. With only one horse I have removed the divider, but just for convenience. With the door, if it is windy or just won't stay open I keep a rope handy and just tie the door open.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

@Avna You sometimes indicate that you are not a brave person. I think you are extremely brave. People that never have fear and just try anything without hesitation may not be so much brave as they are reckless. Facing your fears and doing what you want or need to do in spite of fear/nervousness is what bravery is.


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

Celeste said:


> @Avna You sometimes indicate that you are not a brave person. I think you are extremely brave. People that never have fear and just try anything without hesitation may not be so much brave as they are reckless. Facing your fears and doing what you want or need to do in spite of fear/nervousness is what bravery is.


I agree. The definition of courage is doing things you're afraid of doing. Doing something you're not afraid of doing does not require any courage!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Wow, nice trailer! I am dying of envy!


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Just caught up on the thread. Yay Brooke! Yay @Avna!

So...did you buy it?

By the time you get to Massachusetts you're going to be a pro driving it and you can come pick me up any time to go ride with you :wink:


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## redbarron1010 (Mar 11, 2017)

I am sorry, but I didn't read through all of the posts, so this may be a duplicate answer, but my first horse would go ballistic about a trailer with a ramp, and REFUSE to go in, but he walked beautifully in to a stock trailer with no ramp... he never changed, so i changed trailers. It may just be the ramp. Just an idea.


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## 6gun Kid (Feb 26, 2013)

Avna said:


> You can always put a blanket on a cold horse, but cooling them down inside a metal box in the sun is a lot bigger challenge, it seems to me.
> 
> May buy a trailer tomorrow . . .


 For my stock trailer, I have several predrilled pieces of plywood and when the weather gets cold and I have to haul somewhere I attach them to the sides of the trailer with big zip ties.


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## gingerscout (Jan 18, 2012)

my horse always was used to a large gooseneck slant load, then I bought my own trailer.. which was a straight load.. and the teething issues at first drove me up the wall.. he is much better now and 99% of the time just hops on, we also have a mini who fit under the center divider ( which sadly is no longer adjustable as previous owner welded it in place don't know why) so we had to pony proof the trailer. One of my friends I ride with has a brenderup and My horse was NOT a fan of the ramp.. 8 or so rides later he walks right up it. If I would do it differently, I would have bought a slant load or at least a trailer with exit doors.. was a real PITA to slide between horse and divider to get out at first, good thing my horse was tolerant..lol. I have never tried loading him in a stock trailer


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

egrogan said:


> Just caught up on the thread. Yay Brooke! Yay @Avna!
> 
> So...did you buy it?
> 
> By the time you get to Massachusetts you're going to be a pro driving it and you can come pick me up any time to go ride with you :wink:


Not yet. Tomorrow. I was going to on Saturday (2 days ago) but it was 110 degrees and I chickened out. I spent the day washing my Brenderup getting it ready to photograph for sale. The trailer place is closed on Sunday and today, Labor Day, so I am going out there tomorrow.

I am already competent for general purposes with the Brenderup, which has the same length and width and weight as the new Maverick (but taller and with a longer tongue), so it shouldn't take me very long to get comfortable. 

I have been surprised how many people can't back up their own horse trailer. I can put mine most anywhere now. 

I am much looking forward to riding with you!

Maybe you will have your smoky black gelding home soon enough for us to go out together this month! Should I pack my breeches?


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Avna said:


> oky black gelding home soon enough for us to go out together this month! Should I pack my breeches?


Sure, bring your riding stuff! Not sure I'll have a new horse home yet, but you're welcome to a ride with Izzy. And, if you still have my friend Ida's contact info, I'm willing to bet she'd let you ride Jazz. Better yet, if you took Izzy out on the trail with her & Jazz, she'd be over the moon. She loves company, and she would regale you with stories of the last three decades of Vermont Morgans.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

egrogan said:


> Sure, bring your riding stuff! Not sure I'll have a new horse home yet, but you're welcome to a ride with Izzy. And, if you still have my friend Ida's contact info, I'm willing to bet she'd let you ride Jazz. Better yet, if you took Izzy out on the trail with her & Jazz, she'd be over the moon. She loves company, and she would regale you with stories of the last three decades of Vermont Morgans.


Packing my breeches then. Yip yip!


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Yesterday I had my lesson -- all equitation, all trotting . . . Brooke is finally, almost consistently, pushing into the bridle, lowering her neck from the withers (instead of just bending her head), and lifting her back!!! Made me really happy. Got some beautiful long strides. It will still fall apart in the blink of an eye if I don't remember the 32 things I need to do to stay correct, but if I am correct, she gives me what she has. Glory. What a good girl she is.

Then I drove out to Salinas and picked up the new trailer, draining my bank account. Better sell the Brenderup fast. I got the new trailer stuck on the bridge too. It's the bigger tires and wider wheelbase which is the problem. Need to practice. I will get it. Empty anyway, it hauls like there's nothing back there. 

Today I finished washing the Brenderup and took sale photos. All that interminable cleaning made me reflect on the huge difference in design strategy between this Euro-trailer and my new Made In USA one. It's like the difference between backpacking and car camping.

The Brenderup is like a very clever unfolding box of multiple choices. It has a ramp, a rear lid, two escape doors, two tack room doors, and a tack room lid that flips up so you have enough head room to stand up in it. When it is folded down, the horses can see out the front window (and you can see them from your vehicle as well). Its windows have four different positions you can pop them into. The center divider is removable, the head guard is removable, the chest bars are adjustable, and so are the butt bars, from pony to 18 hand horse. You have many choices, but the choice you do not have is to be disorderly and wasteful of space and weight. There is no room for carrying anything extra. Can't carry full-length portable corral panels, can't fit a muck tub in there, can't just throw a bunch of tack in there to root through when you get to your destination. There's no room for that behavior. 

The new Maverick slant has two doors, one for the horses and one for the tack room. It has a swinging divider. That's it, that's all the moving parts. Oh, the tack room window has a slider, like the back of a pickup. The tack room is huge, you could sleep in there. Both the other trailers at the barn are 2 horse slants, and both of them have tack rooms full of saddles, muck tubs, boxes of "stuff", coils of hose, tarps, extra boots, hardware, rakes and shovels . . . You can't set foot in either one without tripping on something. The design invites this, in fact. 

I think the two approaches reflect the different American and European cultures and practical realities. I'm looking forward to experiencing the cowboy way .... but with after-market shelving.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

We have a 3H slant. We have had other trailers but this one works the best for our horses.
When hauling 1 horse I put her in the middle stall.
We "tie" using the Blocker Tie Rings.
Hope the new trailer works out for your girl!!!!


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Dustbunny said:


> We have a 3H slant. We have had other trailers but this one works the best for our horses.
> When hauling 1 horse I put her in the middle stall.
> We "tie" using the Blocker Tie Rings.
> Hope the new trailer works out for your girl!!!!


I have some Blocker Ties, but I guess I always do them wrong because they never stay tied. I gave up on them.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Avna said:


> I have some Blocker Ties, but I guess I always do them wrong because they never stay tied. I gave up on them.


I would just put some quick release trailer ties in the trailer. Mine stay in there all the time.
You only need to pull down on the quick release snap, and it opens

https://www.amazon.ca/Intrepid-International-Tie-Safe-Trailer/dp/B000RENU9W


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

You can zoom in here

https://www.amazon.ca/Tough-1-Adjus..._7?_encoding=UTF8&refRID=HAQNKQ44GJ7PFPDMP0TJ


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Smilie said:


> You can zoom in here
> 
> https://www.amazon.ca/Tough-1-Adjus..._7?_encoding=UTF8&refRID=HAQNKQ44GJ7PFPDMP0TJ


That's what I'm planning on using. I have the bungee kind and the webbing kind. Do not trust the bungee kind, heard bad stories, so I'm sticking with the ones like you linked to.


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

Smilie said:


> Looks nice, except I am no fan of dividers
> 
> Horses feel better without them, plus for me, they defeat the purpose of any quick release set up, in case of an emergency. Just my preference


How do you get your horses to load without a divider? Mine swing their butts around so the other one can't get in, unless there's a divider.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

newtrailriders said:


> How do you get your horses to load without a divider? Mine swing their butts around so the other one can't get in, unless there's a divider.


Always load the least dominant horse first. They will move out of the way of horses that are more dominant. Load the herd boss last.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

@Avna if you would consider selling the head divider separate from the rest of the trailer, I would be VERY interested in it. Have never had a divider in my Brenderup and would like to have one. 

Mine is open all the way to the front, no separate tack room. Keeping tack clean and hay-free is a challenge, lol


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

AnitaAnne said:


> @Avna if you would consider selling the head divider separate from the rest of the trailer, I would be VERY interested in it. Have never had a divider in my Brenderup and would like to have one.
> 
> Mine is open all the way to the front, no separate tack room. Keeping tack clean and hay-free is a challenge, lol


Try asking on the Brenderup discussion boards such as Help for Brenderup Trailer Owners. There is also a Brenderup owners Facebook page, just look for Brenderup Trailer Owners of America there.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Thank you for the tip. I emailed the listed parts supplier; will just wait to hear for a response. 

In the meantime, would you mind just measuring yours for me? Maybe I can make something. My friends mare somehow scraped her face in my trailer yesterday. The only part I could find that she might have rubbed her face on was the center divider. I would like to protect her from future injury

Thank you, in advance


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

newtrailriders said:


> How do you get your horses to load without a divider? Mine swing their butts around so the other one can't get in, unless there's a divider.


 I guess, because they are trained to tie, LOl, and move butt over, on request, if asked to. Teach them to yield hindquarters, and then simply tell them ,over', if you need to.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

AnitaAnne said:


> Always load the least dominant horse first. They will move out of the way of horses that are more dominant. Load the herd boss last.


 Or, teach your horses that when you ar present, there is no herd boss, besides you!
That rule also applies,when I am out feeding horses at liberty. No horse is allowed to express herd dominance, when I am present. Get that, and you also don't have horses that kick out, while ridden, when other horses come up on them, horses that are chased over on top of you, during feeding, by a more dominant horse, ect.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Smilie said:


> Or, teach your horses that when you ar present, there is no herd boss, besides you!
> That rule also applies,when I am out feeding horses at liberty. No horse is allowed to express herd dominance, when I am present. Get that, and you also don't have horses that kick out, while ridden, when other horses come up on them, horses that are chased over on top of you, during feeding, by a more dominant horse, ect.


True. The person that can rule the herd boss rules the herd too.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Went to a weekend "adult horse camp" 30 minutes away, in my brand spanking new aluminum stock/slant. I took Dusty the pony with us. Brooke jumped right in without a fuss, and rode without a peep. 

Just came home (I am completely exhausted). Brooke jumped right in with even less coaxing (I still used a lunge line passed through the bars so I could hold her head in there while I latched the big door, but she didn't need it at all). Once again, a totally quiet ride ... until we turned in the barn driveway. Then she started pawing impatiently. But that was less than a minute of pawing. 

I think I have totally solved her trailering problems!!!!! Wow! I think I'll haul Dusty along for a while longer before I phase him out. 

On the other hand, I am constantly bumping that trailer into things. It has a much wider wheelbase and much bigger tires than the Brenderup. I have to learn how to pull it. There's always something.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

AnitaAnne said:


> Thank you for the tip. I emailed the listed parts supplier; will just wait to hear for a response.
> 
> In the meantime, would you mind just measuring yours for me? Maybe I can make something. My friends mare somehow scraped her face in my trailer yesterday. The only part I could find that she might have rubbed her face on was the center divider. I would like to protect her from future injury
> 
> Thank you, in advance


Sorry, I already sold my Brenderup, but I am not exactly sure of what you wanted to measure? There is probably a brochure somewhere online with some measurements. Here is one: hest usa (pdf.)


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Avna said:


> Sorry, I already sold my Brenderup, but I am not exactly sure of what you wanted to measure? There is probably a brochure somewhere online with some measurements. Here is one: hest usa (pdf.)


I need a head divider or the dimensions for one. The brochures don't list that information.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

AnitaAnne said:


> I need a head divider or the dimensions for one. The brochures don't list that information.


Oh, so you have a 2 horse with a divider but it doesn't have the head divider? I think that you should either go on a Brenderup owners forum and see what is out there, or have someone local fabricate one for you if that's what you want. But how can your horse injure herself without one? They are only there to protect the occupants from each other, was my understanding.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

Congratulations on the success with the new trailer!!!!!
Love it when a plan comes together.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Dustbunny said:


> Congratulations on the success with the new trailer!!!!!
> Love it when a plan comes together.


Ha, it wasn't a plan nearly so much as a desperate flailing guess. I really did NOT want to give up that Brenderup. But Brooke wasn't ambiguous at all about what she wanted. Once I finally got the message, I moved on it. I love my horse again!


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

Smilie said:


> Or, teach your horses that when you ar present, there is no herd boss, besides you!
> That rule also applies,when I am out feeding horses at liberty. No horse is allowed to express herd dominance, when I am present. Get that, and you also don't have horses that kick out, while ridden, when other horses come up on them, horses that are chased over on top of you, during feeding, by a more dominant horse, ect.


Smilie, it would make a great thread if you would think back and describe various dominant horses and exactly what you've done to remind them that you are in charge.

My big guy is very dominant over my little guy and I always feel like he's just waiting until I'm not looking to make up for having to pretend to behave.


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

Avna said:


> I really did NOT want to give up that Brenderup. Once I finally got the message, I moved on it. I love my horse again!


Avna, considering the degree of frustration you described in the beginning, this is a remarkably happy ending. Who knows what Brooke hated so much about the Brenderup? I think we should be able to train our horses to do what we want, but at the same time I believe horses sometimes have irrational fears, like children. I never want my efforts to overcome those fears to be the equivalent of locking a child in the closet to cure her fear of the dark.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Joel Reiter said:


> Avna, considering the degree of frustration you described in the beginning, this is a remarkably happy ending. Who knows what Brooke hated so much about the Brenderup? I think we should be able to train our horses to do what we want, but at the same time I believe horses sometimes have irrational fears, like children. I never want my efforts to overcome those fears to be the equivalent of locking a child in the closet to cure her fear of the dark.


I never want my efforts to overcome those fears be the equivalent of locking a bull buffalo in a wheeled box and dragging it down the highway! 

Horses do have "irrational" fears based on their primal prey animal wiring and also bad things that happened to them in somewhat similar circumstances (my horse has not forgotten any of her traumatic events, as far as I can tell). Like children, they are based on incomplete information, not real irrationality. 

In Brooke's case I can't really imagine what was so extremely different about the two trailers for her. I have only heard of one other horse who really hated the Brenderup (also solved with a slant), in all my googling. It's far more common that people don't like them, almost invariably just by looking at them and not by trying them out. 

It would be interesting to try to figure out if it was the ramp, the straight load, the less rigidity of the wall materials, or what. But right now I am done experimenting.


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## Clairemarie (Oct 9, 2017)

I?m tempted to suggest knee hobbles, since you?re really pulling your hair out, but that obviously wouldn?t work while loading or actually driving anywhere. On face value it might seem a ludicrous idea, but I?ve found it can really chill a horse out when you take away their avenue of escape. Not a false calm, but a sleepy, droopy head, back leg cocked kind of calm. Just a suggestion in case you?re that desperate. (And cheaper than a float). Clearly you need to first ensure she is comfortable with them, and only put them on her in the float when she?s in place. Leather lining should prevent chafing. And seriously, horses are tougher than they look. But please don?t use the hammer. 
I wasn?t overly keen on hobbles until my partner decided to try his hand at bondage. TMI, but there?s a point; I was actually astonished at how relaxed I became. For the first time I can remember, I was able to stop planning things in my mind, stop worrying about making decisions, and just relax. Without alcohol. Again, TMI, but I couldn?t believe how pliable I became, even though it is completely against my nature. Similar results when I hesitantly used hobbles on my horses. 
In my experience, a lot of the incremental-type reward and release stuff can actually encourage evasive behaviour since they can quickly learn to exploit the system. 
I get that it?s genuine fear, not misbehaviour, which is causing the issue, but I think getting her into the float and freezing her panic response is probably the key. Sedatives are also a valid option, too, but I?ve seen them mentioned several times. 
I can?t express how much compassion I have for you.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Joel Reiter said:


> Smilie, it would make a great thread if you would think back and describe various dominant horses and exactly what you've done to remind them that you are in charge.
> 
> My big guy is very dominant over my little guy and I always feel like he's just waiting until I'm not looking to make up for having to pretend to behave.


Well, there is not much you can do, when not present, as to how horses interact with each other, so,I never expect them to not exhibit their herd order, when I am not present
What I do enforce, is that a horse never acts dominant to me, or to another horse, while I am either riding, handling a horse, or, if I am just out in that field with them.
That also means, if a dominant horse gets after a horse lower down, that horse can never assume the route of escape is by running over me.That horse had better stand up tot hat dominant horse, or pick another escape route.
If you allow a lower down hrose to run over you, guess as to where your herd order is! It is below both horses.
Ever see a horse run over another horse, that is above his herd order, even if some higher up horse pushes him?

I have heard of people using shock collars, to condition a dominant horse not to act aggressive towards another horse, even when the human is not present, but have never tried it, as my pastures are large enough, that while the herd order is being established, the lower down hrose always has an escape route. Once all horses know their order, I have found that there seldom is any great display of enforcing that herd order, which is then understood by all members, needing only a 'look'

Just for interest sake, far as understanding how that shock collar works, I will post what I have read.
The collar is first put on that dominant horse for a few days, before it is actually used, so that the horse does not associate the correction of that collar, with the actual collar.
Then, when that horse goes after that other horse, the collar is engaged. The dominant horse then associates that correction as coming from that other horse
Apparently, it then has that horse conditioned not to attack that horse, but does not transfer that conditioning to any other new horse introduced


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Clairemarie said:


> I?m tempted to suggest knee hobbles, since you?re really pulling your hair out, but that obviously wouldn?t work while loading or actually driving anywhere. On face value it might seem a ludicrous idea, but I?ve found it can really chill a horse out when you take away their avenue of escape. Not a false calm, but a sleepy, droopy head, back leg cocked kind of calm. Just a suggestion in case you?re that desperate. (And cheaper than a float). Clearly you need to first ensure she is comfortable with them, and only put them on her in the float when she?s in place. Leather lining should prevent chafing. And seriously, horses are tougher than they look. But please don?t use the hammer.
> I wasn?t overly keen on hobbles until my partner decided to try his hand at bondage. TMI, but there?s a point; I was actually astonished at how relaxed I became. For the first time I can remember, I was able to stop planning things in my mind, stop worrying about making decisions, and just relax. Without alcohol. Again, TMI, but I couldn?t believe how pliable I became, even though it is completely against my nature. Similar results when I hesitantly used hobbles on my horses.
> In my experience, a lot of the incremental-type reward and release stuff can actually encourage evasive behaviour since they can quickly learn to exploit the system.
> I get that it?s genuine fear, not misbehaviour, which is causing the issue, but I think getting her into the float and freezing her panic response is probably the key. Sedatives are also a valid option, too, but I?ve seen them mentioned several times.
> I can?t express how much compassion I have for you.





Wow, all I can say. We are now into SM, and human bondage,with effects extrapolated to horses!


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

Subbing, hahaha


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

@Clairemarie, thanks for your interesting suggestions, but as it turns out, my horse just wants to ride in a step up slant. I traded my ramp straight load for a slant and her problems went away.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Avna said:


> @Clairemarie, thanks for your interesting suggestions, but as it turns out, my horse just wants to ride in a step up slant. I traded my ramp straight load for a slant and her problems went away.


Never tried that bondage for yourself either, but then, that is private info!


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

I have always said this, and many disagree with me, but there are some horses that can't stand straight haul trailers. I am pretty sure they are in discomfort, pain or whatever, but they can't handle it. The owners will argue with me up and down and all around the town, that no, they have this trailer and dammit the horse will have to adjust. To me, that seems like putting a saddle on your horse that hurts him, no, I have this saddle and the horse will have to adjust to it. I just use whatever equipment, trailer, feed, etc. that makes the horse agreeable to do what I want them to do.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Big ditto to above, and what I contended as part of the problem from the beginning


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Smilie said:


> Wow, all I can say. We are now into SM, and human bondage,with effects extrapolated to horses!


Not anything I ever expected to read on this forum :eek_color:


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

AnitaAnne said:


> Not anything I ever expected to read on this forum :eek_color:


Yeah, that was a new direction all right.


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