# Guns on the trail



## RhondaLynn

I may be asking a question that has been talked to death. But, I am going to open this can of worms.

When my hubby and I ride, especially in the wilderness areas, I carry my little 38. It is small, fits nicely in my horn bag and can be in my grubby hand in just a second. I have carried it for several years but don't have a carry permit. I plan to get one but I just have been too lazy to go and pay the $50 to get it. I know that there are a lot of places that we (all of us, you too) ride that guns are prohibited. My question, what is the punishment to be caught with one. And, wouldn't I have to be doing something suspicious for a ranger/cop to search my horse and saddle bags?

Only once have I actually pulled it from my horn bag to possibly use. we had parked our trailer at a trailhead in a large wilderness area. When we came back to the truck after our wonderful ride there was an old codger parked near us with a rifle. (hunting season ??) I quietly pulled my gun out of the horn bag and out of the holster and slipped it into my pocket of my jacket. My hubby rode ahead of me and talked to the guy. he said he had locked his keys in his pickup and wondered if we had a clothes hanger. Needless to say we did not. I stayed back and kept my hand on the gun. the whole time. The old guy was nice but still carried his rifle. some other guys in a car drove by and he walked out there to flag them down and see if they had a clothes hanger. It ended up being a totally true story and the old guy was on the up and up. BUT, it could have easly been a set up. 

I also worry that we might have to put a horse down.

Needless to say I worry that I will be caught with a gun where I should not have one. but, I feel that I would have to be acting crazy for them to search me. sooooo..... I carry one. 

What is everyone elses thought. 

Rhonda


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## kevinshorses

Get off your butt and get a carry permit then carry 24/7. That's what I do and I'm glad for it. I also carry it on me not on my horse. If I get seperated from my horse I may need my gun. I also wouldn't go anywhere that I couldn't carry a firearm. I believe that carry in national parks is now allowed so I don't think there are many places you can take a horse that you can't take a gun but it's better to check than get thrown in jail.


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## Solon

Get your permit.

Some wilderness areas and parks do not allow guns in them. Contact the Forest Service. The fines in the past were hefty and I believe they could take your truck, trailer and horses (at least some places in Washington they used to do that, may still be the case). In some cases, they did allow you to buy your stuff back. I know when my Agency seizes trucks/trailers/horses/dogs for hunting violations we often allow people to try and buy them back for a pretty big price.


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## AlabamaHorseMom

^^ Agree with Kevin.

We have the right... USE IT!


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## Alwaysbehind

Get your permit! It is silly not to have one. And I agree with Kevin that it makes more sense to carry on your person.

You can find your states fire arm laws HERE.


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## Vidaloco

We have concealed carry laws here as well and it's $150 for the permit plus the cost of the training. 
We also have an open carry law that requires no permit. As long as the firearm is not hidden your ok. Maybe you need to start wearing it in a holster in plain sight. Check your local laws though. Here the open law is also regulated by county and city ordinance. 
Either way you need to obey the law. I'm sure the fine's for not doing so far outweigh the cost of compliance.


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## Kentucky

Vidaloco said:


> We have concealed carry laws here as well and it's $150 for the permit plus the cost of the training.
> We also have an open carry law that requires no permit. As long as the firearm is not hidden your ok. Maybe you need to start wearing it in a holster in plain sight. Check your local laws though. Here the open law is also regulated by county and city ordinance.
> Either way you need to obey the law. I'm sure the fine's for not doing so far outweigh the cost of compliance.


That is well said and very true. The safest choice for a horse good is the old cowboy style single action revolver. Regualdless of your weapon, I would strongly suggest training your horse to be used to it before you carry a gun on your horse. The cowboy mounted shooting acciation Cowboy Mounted Shooting Association "CMSA" - The Fastest Growing Equine Sport In The Nation or if possible those trainers and groups who train police horses would be the best place to look for information on training your horse Mounted Police Training Systems LLC and Mounted Police Training - Mounted Police Information

I can't find it now but there was one from Califonia that boasted that he would get you to be able to fire twice form your horse in 2 days.


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## BFFofHorses

I think guns are a gOOD idea on trails. I met a bear once, and if my horse hadn't charged it, I probably wouldn't be here. I'm too young to carry one, but I know how to shhot it, so I'm thankful to have a horse that takes care of me


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## Walkamile

Wow! Your horse charged at a bear? I'm pretty sure mine would have unseated me and headed for the hills! :lol: 
It's not the four legged predators that worry me, but the two legged. I ride alone a lot and in very remote areas. I've run across a few guys that gave me the willies. Fortunately not problems, but I do have a side arm that I can bring along on such rides. I keep it strapped to me, won't do me any good if I get separated from my horse and it's on the saddle.

Get the permit.


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## kevinshorses

Walkamile said:


> Wow! Your horse charged at a bear? I'm pretty sure mine would have unseated me and headed for the hills! :lol:
> It's not the four legged predators that worry me, but the two legged. I ride alone a lot and in very remote areas. I've run across a few guys that gave me the willies. Fortunately not problems, but I do have a side arm that I can bring along on such rides. I keep it strapped to me, won't do me any good if I get separated from my horse and it's on the saddle.
> 
> Get the permit.


You're right about the wild animals. I have never seen a wild animal that scared me but a few times I have seen people either on the trail or at the trailhead that I kept an eye on. Since I have gotten my permit I don't even go to the store unarmed. I live in a nice safe town but bad things happen even in nice safe towns. I couldn't live with myself if I left my pistol at home and couldn't prevent injury to my wife and kids.


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## Maverick101

You Americans and your guns! Up here in Canada...we just beat the crap outta people the old fashioned way...bahahahah


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## Kentucky

Maverick101 said:


> You Americans and your guns! Up here in Canada...we just beat the crap outta people the old fashioned way...bahahahah


 
I don't plan on fighting wolf, coyote, or other predator hand to hand. With two legs problems I like options.


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## Kentucky

Maverick101 said:


> You Americans and your guns! Up here in Canada...we just beat the crap outta people the old fashioned way...bahahahah


I am not going fight a wolf, wld dog, large cat, bear, coyote, or any other predator of that type hand to hand. With two legged problems,I like options.

oops sorry for the double post i was trying to clean up the firstone it it went wrong.


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## kevinshorses

Maverick101 said:


> You Americans and your guns! Up here in Canada...we just beat the crap outta people the old fashioned way...bahahahah


 
I saw a quote that said that gun control advocates believe that the woman that gets raped and murdered in an alley is morally superior to a woman that defends herself with a handgun.


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## smrobs

I have my gun and I carry it everywhere I can, especially when riding in the summer time. We don't have much of a problem around here with predators, mostly the only things we have are coyotes and a mountain lion or 2 (they usually run away first anyway). However, rattlesnakes are a real problem and IMHO, the only good rattler is a dead rattler. There are a lot of iffy people in town as well, druggies and illegals. We have pretty much the same laws a Vida where you can carry it in sight and you are okay. You are fortunate that it is only $50 there. Here, with the cost of the class and the cost to the state, I end up with a cost of at least $250. Get your conceal and then carry it on your hip. What if something were to happen and your horse gets away from you? Then you would be stuck out there with no gun.


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## Walkamile

kevinshorses said:


> I saw a quote that said that gun control advocates believe that the woman that gets raped and murdered in an alley is morally superior to a woman that defends herself with a handgun.


I'd like to take the idiot that came up with that behind the woodshed and show them a little "moral superiority"!:evil:


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## kevinshorses

Walkamile said:


> I'd like to take the idiot that came up with that behind the woodshed and show them a little "moral superiority"!:evil:


 
It was a pro gun person that was making a point about the anti-gun crowd.


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## Walkamile

Well, if this is the argument that anti gun is taking to further their arguments for gun control it is the lamest I've heard yet!

We all know that the law abiding citizens are not the issue. And if any predator came near me....well let's just say I'll save the taxpayers from the expense of a trial! 

Okay, blood pressure is back down to normal...let's continue with the original topic, sorry for the side rant.:wink:


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## Painted Horse

We've used guns as noise makers to scare grizzlys off while fishing in alaska. I carry one often when riding in remote areas. But I'm not too worried about needing if for animals. Although I wouldn't hesitate to fire it. But unless I was seriously threatened I wouldn't fire to harm but rather to scare.

I have had horses get hurt and die in the back country. It's no fun to cut a horses throat with a knife because he needs to be put down. You only need a permit if you concel the weapon. It's bad enough to have to take your saddle and cut the brand off your old friend when they go down. Utah allows you to carry pistols out in the open with out a permit. I just put a holster on my belt.

The law was changed about carrying guns in national parks like Yellowstone. But I don't think it has taken effect yet. I know congress passed the law, but the liberals got a time delay, I think it goes into effect this year. I know I was suprised last summer in Yellowstone, I had heard about the new law, but the rangers promptly straighten out my understanding that I couldn't carry a gun last summer in the park.


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## kevinshorses

The law goes into effect Feb. 20.


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## Tasia

Painted Horse please dont ever bring up slitting a horses throat to kill it again. I am only so tough until a animals gets hurt or killed.
My riding teacher always brings a gun. I am not scared of animals. If we were to meet a cougar on the trail I would hop off my horse let him run and I would bolt up a tree(yes I can climb like a monkey). However some people are creepy so a gun is there for that purpose.


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## kevinshorses

Tasia said:


> Painted Horse please dont ever bring up slitting a horses throat to kill it again. I am only so tough until a animals gets hurt or killed.
> .


That's the facts of horse ownership. Sometimes bad things happen and it's alot easier to think and plan ahead of time rather than wait untill something happens.


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## kevinshorses

Tasia said:


> If we were to meet a cougar on the trail I would hop off my horse let him run and I would bolt up a tree(yes I can climb like a monkey).


 
You realize that a cougar can climb like monkey as well.


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## nrhareiner

Each state has its own laws some states it is broken down by county. Here in Ohio my CCW is good in several states. However I can not carry in the parks. So know where you can and can not legally carry. The classes you take will teach you all the laws.

That all being said as a ex law enforcement officer. There are several things to keep in mind when you carry a gun 24/7. First it is NOT YOUR GUN. When you take a gun someplace and something happens remember you are bring a gun to the fight and again it is NOT YOUR GUN. It is the first person who gets to it. The training most states offer is not truly enough so go and find other type of training on use and retention of your weapon.

Also if you carry be prepared to use it. If not leave it at home for the reason listed above. It is better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6.

Also. Make sure if you are going to carry a hand gun while riding that your horse is not scared of guns. Nothing like shooting off the back of a horse who has never had a gun go off around them little lone on their back.


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## Solon

Tasia said:


> Painted Horse please dont ever bring up slitting a horses throat to kill it again. I am only so tough until a animals gets hurt or killed.
> My riding teacher always brings a gun. I am not scared of animals. If we were to meet a cougar on the trail I would hop off my horse let him run and I would bolt up a tree(yes I can climb like a monkey). However some people are creepy so a gun is there for that purpose.


What would be the better thing if the person didn't have a gun? Let the horse suffer?

You might want to read up a little more on cougars. They'd be on you before you got to the tree. You do NOT run. You're best to stay on your horse and look really big.



Here is a section of our living with wildlife from our agency website, although the first sentence isn't the case anymore. We are seeing more and more cougars, even coming down and going into neighborhoods and school yards.
Relatively few people will ever catch a glimpse of a cougar much less confront one. If you come face to face with a cougar, your actions can either help or hinder a quick retreat by the animal. 
 *Here are some things to remember:* 


 Stop, pick up small children immediately, and don’t run. Running and rapid movements may trigger an attack. Remember, at close range, a cougar’s instinct is to chase.
 Face the cougar. Talk to it firmly while slowly backing away. Always leave the animal an escape route.
 Try to appear larger than the cougar. Get above it (e.g., step up onto a rock or stump). If wearing a jacket, hold it open to further increase your apparent size. If you are in a group, stand shoulder-to-shoulder to appear intimidating.
 Do not take your eyes off the cougar or turn your back. Do not crouch down or try to hide.
 Never approach the cougar, especially if it is near a kill or with kittens, and never offer it food.
 If the cougar does not flee, be more assertive. If it shows signs of aggression (crouches with ears back, teeth bared, hissing, tail twitching, and hind feet pumping in preparation to jump), shout, wave your arms and throw anything you have available (water bottle, book, backpack). The idea is to convince the cougar that you are not prey, but a potential danger.
 If the cougar attacks, fight back. Be aggressive and try to stay on your feet. Cougars have been driven away by people who have fought back using anything within reach, including sticks, rocks, shovels, backpacks, and clothing—even bare hands. If you are aggressive enough, a cougar will flee, realizing it has made a mistake. Pepper spray in the cougar’s face is also effective in the extreme unlikelihood of a close encounter with a cougar.


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## Painted Horse

When a horse breaks a leg 20 miles back in to the wilderness, You have no choice but to put them down. Regardless of how much you care for them. Having done it the hard way once, I will always sneek a gun into the back country regardless of the park regulation. You won't find me shooting tin cans or squirrels with it. I won't be flashing it around. Heck, I don't even shot the rattle snakes I run across. But it will be tucked away in case it's needed. I take care of my horses. But I don't ride in an arena or at a county fairground. I ride in the wilderness and crap happens occassionally.

I have taught my horses what a gun is. I own horses to go hunting on. When a bull elk runs out, I can't always find a hitchen post to tie my horse up to before I stroll an appropriate distance away before I fire the rifle. My horses need to ground tie and stay put when the rifle barks. And part of the way I teach that is to shoot pistols off their back.

As far as cougars. They can absolutely out run you and climb faster than you and climb higher than you can. But most of the cats I've seen, check you out and then want to get out of Dodge.


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## spence

i'm in ks as was stated before, and a CCL cost a bit, but what's your life worth? don't be lazy, 50 bucks is cheap. if i recall, GA is one of the better CCW states, or even open carry. check your local and state laws. i would strongly recommend carrying on your person as well as it is more available.

i carry nearly 24/7, and when i ride i DO have a rifle boot where the old .30/30 resides. handgun also goes with, but i disagree a bit with eddie. he says single action revolver, i would be more apt to recommend a double action since the trigger can be pulled without needing to dock the hammer. i unfortunately don't have either so i carry a full size auto, which is part of the reason for the rifle.

i do still consider two legged creatures when i ride, although it's almost always on private land, or on a county road. but i still do consider the four legged type. there are cougars around here from time to time, and constant coyotes, as well as a new addition: hogs. being out on horseback does not mean that i want to let my guard down in any fashion and let a pest go (hogs are new, creeping up in from OK, and we do NOT want any of them at all...).

like i said, just get off your duff and go get your license and carry on your person. it can be well worth your life to do so, especially if you come across some stray two legged creatures. something i forgot out around here is METH LABS. i don't want to come up on a meth head and his meth lab with NO gun, they are extremely likely to take a whack at you no matter who ya are or why ya's there.


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## Solon

PaintedHorse - keep in mind, that if you get caught, you might have a high price to pay. One of our Officers has a saying, "people always get caught". Not sure if he tells that to people to make them tow the line. Just sayin'.


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## Amba1027

spence said:


> like i said, just get off your duff and go get your license and carry on your person. it can be well worth your life to do so, especially if you come across some stray two legged creatures. something i forgot out around here is METH LABS. i don't want to come up on a meth head and his meth lab with NO gun, they are extremely likely to take a whack at you no matter who ya are or why ya's there.


Ummm... shooting around a meth lab is a REALLY bad idea.


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## Painted Horse

That maybe. But I'd rather pay the fine and forfiet the gun than not have the proper tool to dispatch a disabled horse again. It's tucked away, I'm not threatening the wildlife or the quiet of the park. I've never had a ranger ask to frisk me or search my belongings in the back country.

The other part of the problem, is that if you put a horse down, You are not supposed to leave it laying by the trail. It's not consider appropriate to bait bears to surprise unknowing hikers walking down a path. And while I have cut up enough Elk and Moose to know that I could break a horse down small enough to move it. I don't have the desire to do that to a old companion. So the ranger would have two things to get after me about.


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## Solon

I get it believe me. I work for fish and wildlife and walk remote areas getting to lakes to check anglers. I don't get to carry anything. Not a gun, not pepper spray nothing. And if I get caught carrying them, but trouble. I have my handy Sears crafstman knife, but that's not going to do too much in close combat. I'm always watching over my shoulder, but have found my bigger problems are really squirrels throwing sticks down on my head.


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## Maverick101

Kentucky said:


> I don't plan on fighting wolf, coyote, or other predator hand to hand. With two legs problems I like options.


Well if you're smart enough, you don't have to worry about hand to hand combat...you out wit your opponent.


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## Allison Finch

I spent several summers and falls guiding pack trips in the Colorado rockies. I always carried a rifle in a saddle scabbard. 










I say that it is better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6


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## wild_spot

It boggles my mind to think of carrying a gun on my horse. Such different cultures.

We don't have any wild animals that would attack a horse and rider - No bears, coyotes, big cats, etc. Also, because we have strict gun laws, I have never seen a person carrying a gun except a cop.

I would freak out if I saw someone riding along with a gun, lol.


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## lacyloo

^ what about dingos?


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## Painted Horse

There is only a couple of places that guns are not allowed. And as of February 20, if Kevin is right, that law will be changed. At least for the national parks.

Short afternoon ride, I don't worry about it. For example going out to Antelope Island, which is a state park. You have to stay on the loop trails. So you are rarely more than a few miles from your truck/trailer. You have cell phone service most of the time, And if you don't have service, just climb the hill. The trails are easy, so chances of a horse getting hurt are slim. No need to worry about having to put a horse down. If you did need to, the ranger would probably be right there to help out. And he can drive his vehicle on all the trails.

But when I ride back into wilderness areas, Where It's an ALL DAY ride to get back to the truck, Where it's an ALL DAY horse ride and then a hour or two truck ride before I'll get cell service, I'm on my own, There is nobody that can come and help. In those sitituations, You need to be able to take care of things your self.

I'm not worried about strange people, I'm not going to pull a gun on a stranger. We are in the Wilderness, not a bar fight. Chances are conversation with strangers will be about fishing or the color of fall leaves, not hey give me your wallet. The biggest confrontation I've ever seen in the back country was tree huggers complaining about us having horses in the back country. And I'm not going to escalate that to a gun fight.

Most animals I don't see as threats. I had a grizzly charge us in Alaska and at the time I wished I had a gun, But we didn't and the bear backed down, in hindsight, I suspect shooting that bear would of got us killed. There is just no way you can kill something that big with pistol, At least not fast enough to save your own skin. I had a moose tree me once, and had to spend 20 minutes up a tree while she did a dance on my pack. Maybe a loud gun shot, would have sent her running. But I would have never shot her.

When you ride horses in country like this, There is no help, and things do occassionally happen.









Here we are cleaning out the eyes and ears of horse that went down in Quicksand. If you can't get the horse out of the quicksand, Is it best to just leave him to die?


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## nrhareiner

Solon said:


> I have my handy Sears crafstman knife, but that's not going to do too much in close combat.


In close combat that is exactly what you want is a knife. Get a good one and learn how to use it. Much better then a gun in that situation.


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## trailhorserider

I've been trail riding for about 15 years and frequently ride alone. I'm in Arizona. We have all sorts of wildlife. They've never given me a problem. I have never seen a cougar. I would love to see one! 

I have never felt the need to carry a gun. Of course there is a first time for everything, so someday I might be caught off-guard, but really, the wildlife leaves you alone and you are blessed to get to see them, at least that is how I feel. I have been charged by elk a couple of times, but that is because I was calling them. :lol:

I pray I never need to put my horse down in the back country. For the most part I am within 4 hours of home (when I ride alone) and when I ride further I am with a friend. (She sometimes carries a gun.)

My Dad always told me it's the two-legged animals you have to worry about, not the four-legged, lol! 

What's nice about being on horseback in a wooded area, is that you can disappear and pretty much avoid the few people you see out there. 

So I dunno, I don't do pack trips or anything, just trail rides. I haven't felt like I wanted a gun yet. I agree if you are out there for days or weeks, a gun would be good!


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## Tasia

I totally understand about not letting the horse suffer. I mean I just dont want to read about it lol. Anyways this is a really neat thread. Cool pics too painted horse!


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## SmoothTrails

I'm too young to carry a gun as of now, but as soon as I am old enough I will have one. We have had issues with break-ins in my hometown, and I don't trust to many people if I am by myself. I have pepper spray and 3 knives for now...lol. I'm thinking about getting a taser at some point. At home there are quite a few guns ranging from pistols to shotguns. I know how to load and fire all of them accurately, and I have two pits that would give me some time if somebody ever tries to get in my house. At the other house we have 5 dogs outside that would scare most people away before they could ever get to the door. 

I think that everyone should have a gun. There would be a lower crime rate. Who wants to rob you when they know you probably have a gun and know how to use it?


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## roro

Someone who is experienced with robbing and has a better shot than you do. They could also easily shoot you from a distance with you not even realizing they were around. If everyone had a gun, everyone would be dangerous. It would be similar to the situation with nuclear weapons, everyone would be tense and waiting for a trigger to be pulled so they could kill someone without thinking.


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## Amba1027

roro said:


> Someone who is experienced with robbing and has a better shot than you do. They could also easily shoot you from a distance with you not even realizing they were around. If everyone had a gun, everyone would be dangerous. It would be similar to the situation with nuclear weapons, everyone would be tense and waiting for a trigger to be pulled so they could kill someone without thinking.


100% agree


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## kevinshorses

roro said:


> Someone who is experienced with robbing and has a better shot than you do. They could also easily shoot you from a distance with you not even realizing they were around. If everyone had a gun, everyone would be dangerous. It would be similar to the situation with nuclear weapons, everyone would be tense and waiting for a trigger to be pulled so they could kill someone without thinking.


 
That's not what happens in reality. When some lazy scumball realizes that you are not a push over he moves on to other prey. I don't think everyone should have a gun. Only the people that can be comfortable and skilled in the use of a gun should have one. There is evil in the world and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it. I don't just carry on the trail I carry when I go to the store or to pick my kids up from school or to go with my wife to the mall. You never know when you will need it. I stay alert and pay attention to the things around me and try to stay out of bad situations but if a situation develops that needs me to take action then I want to be prepared mentally and physically. I don't want to get in a fist fight with some AIDS infected druggie and I certainly can't ask him to wait ten minutes for the cops to show up. If you want to depend on the morals of other people to keep you safe then go ahead but don't try to take away my right to depend on myself to stay safe. The cops are not going to keep you safe they will just catch the guy(maybe) that commits a crime against you. I would not shoot someone to defend personal property outside my home and I would probably give up my wallet if I thought it would end the situation but if I have an incling that physical harm is going to befall my loved ones or myself I will not hesitate to use whatever force is necessary to prevent it.


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## roro

kevinshorses said:


> That's not what happens in reality. When some lazy scumball realizes that you are not a push over he moves on to other prey. I don't think everyone should have a gun. Only the people that can be comfortable and skilled in the use of a gun should have one. There is evil in the world and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it. I don't just carry on the trail I carry when I go to the store or to pick my kids up from school or to go with my wife to the mall. You never know when you will need it. I stay alert and pay attention to the things around me and try to stay out of bad situations but if a situation develops that needs me to take action then I want to be prepared mentally and physically. I don't want to get in a fist fight with some AIDS infected druggie and I certainly can't ask him to wait ten minutes for the cops to show up. If you want to depend on the morals of other people to keep you safe then go ahead but don't try to take away my right to depend on myself to stay safe. The cops are not going to keep you safe they will just catch the guy(maybe) that commits a crime against you. I would not shoot someone to defend personal property outside my home and I would probably give up my wallet if I thought it would end the situation but if I have an incling that physical harm is going to befall my loved ones or myself I will not hesitate to use whatever force is necessary to prevent it.


A hearty rant indeed, but I was discussing the issue of everyone having a gun. I believe that those who are truly qualified to carry one should be allowed to do so, but not everyone. Let's list the things you assumed with no factual evidence, shall we?
-"You never know when you will need it. " Yes, I do actually. I am fully aware of situations where a gun may be necessary and when it isn't.

-"If you want to depend on the morals of other people to keep you safe then go ahead" Nowhere in my statement did I say I would depend on other's morals to keep me safe. I would certainly not depend on another person's morals, I would depend on myself.

-"don't try to take away my right to depend on myself to stay safe" Oh, let me just call up the president and tell him to take away kevinshorse's guns because I said not everyone should have a gun. *eyeroll*

-"The cops are not going to keep you safe they will just catch the guy(maybe) that commits a crime against you" I also know the effectiveness of cops. Again, I would depend on myself rather than a cop who may not arrive in time, be that my escape or injuring the criminal via gun, pepper spray etc. 

Perhaps I am nit picking, but I find it disconcerting to see a gun carrier picking up on things that are not true and clouding them with their own opinions.


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## NorthernMama

<sigh> Get your permit. I'm sooooo envious. These freakin' city-slicker gun control advocates up here drive me bonkers. I *wish* I would be able to carry a gun. Even GETTING a handgun here is a pain in the butt. You have to be a member of a gun club, or a collector. You can't just have one because you want one, or because you live in the bush. There is supposedly a concealed permit available in Canada, but one has NEVER BEEN ISSUED to a civilian.

Go get your permit because YOU CAN!


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## Painted Horse

Lets get back to the thread. Which is guns on the trail. It's a no win argument to argue about whether people should or should not own a gun.


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## Painted Horse

Sometimes wearing guns is more about the costume than it is about every really using them. This fellow loves to dress the part. And it doesn't matter if its a 2 hour ride or The Chief Joseph week long ride, He dresses the part of an old west cowboy.


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## Solon

Painted, where are you from? I'm from Joseph Oregon (live elsewhere now) but love getting back for Chief Joseph Days.


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## Painted Horse

I'm in Northern Utah, I've never made it up to the Chief Joseph ride, No Appoloosa in my herd. But my friend in the photo goes every year. But he is retired and has the time.

A hunter discovered a large field of marijuana growing in this area last fall. Turns out 4 illegal mecicans were camped in the field taking care of it and guarding it. My neighbor works for the FBI, he said they went in and pulled out over 1400 plants. 

I don't know. But I suspect that those illegal mexicans don't really have a lot to loose and would rather fight than loose their crop or go to jail. An army of 20 FBI agents probably will send them running. A couple of people out riding their horses on a Saturday afternoon. Who knows what would have happened..

Others have mentioned Meth labs, in our area it seems every summer they find 4-8 of these marijuana farms. That's enough of a reason for me to pack my gun


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## Solon

My worst fear is walking up on a meth lab while working the lakes.


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## kevinshorses

roro said:


> A hearty rant indeed, but I was discussing the issue of everyone having a gun. I believe that those who are *truly qualified* to carry one should be allowed to do so, but not everyone. Let's list the things you assumed with no factual evidence, shall we?
> -"You never know when you will need it. " Yes, I do actually. I am fully aware of situations where a gun may be necessary and when it isn't.
> 
> Are you a super hero? You must at least be physcic if you know were a crime will be commited. The fact is you don't know when you might need to defend yourself. Anybody with one good eye and one good hand can be qualified to use a firearm. Since it is a right granted by our constitution nobody should have to be qualified. Being an american should be qualification enough.
> 
> -"If you want to depend on the morals of other people to keep you safe then go ahead" Nowhere in my statement did I say I would depend on other's morals to keep me safe. I would certainly not depend on another person's morals, I would depend on myself.
> 
> You may depend on yourself but have you given yourself the tools to save your own life? How big of a man would it take to overpower you? If you can't effectively defend yourself then you are depending on other people to not attack you.
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps I am nit picking, but I find it disconcerting to see a gun carrier picking up on things that are not true and clouding them with their own opinions.
> 
> I have not said anything that is untrue. Most of what I said was my opinion and the rest of it was fact. If you are scared of guns or think they cause crime then fine don't be around them. I have mine and if the situation ever presented I would use it to the best of my ability to defend you. I truely hope that it I never point a firearm at another human being.


Sorry about veering off topic. I am done with the arguement but I needed to clarify a few things.


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## Allison Finch

No apology necessary. It needed to be said, and well said it was.


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## roro

kevinshorses said:


> Sorry about veering off topic. I am done with the arguement but I needed to clarify a few things.


to quote myself: *I believe that those who are truly qualified to carry one should be allowed to do so, but not everyone.*

Clarified.


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## nrhareiner

roro said:


> to quote myself: *I believe that those who are truly qualified to carry one should be allowed to do so, but not everyone.*
> 
> Clarified.



The only American who should not be allowed to carry a gun is a Felon they have given up that right. However every other American is qualified. Now I do believe they should have to do what every state requires and that is to take the CCW coarse. That way they know the laws and they have some idea of how to use a gun and are not just going out and buying one and then carrying it.


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## iridehorses

I've had a CWP in the three states I've lived in (NY, PA, and SC) since 1970. I am never without my gun and 99% of the people who know me never know I have it. It's nothing I talk about but comforting to know it's there. I've actually had to draw it twice, which doesn't seem like a lot over 40 years but it served the purpose and prevented a problem at the time.

I have it on the trail and, again, none of my riding partners are aware of it. If I had to ride in the areas that Painted Horse goes, there would never be a question about having one handy.


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## wild_spot

We don't have dingoes where I live - And they wouldn't attack a horse anyway.

You couldn't pay me to carry a gun. I couldn't shoot anything anyway, plus I would be nervous the whole time I was carrying it. Everyone having a gun isn't just logistically hard, but there are a lot of people who don't want one!


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## Solon

There are definitely some people out there that should not be carrying guns.


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## spence

Amba1027 said:


> Ummm... shooting around a meth lab is a REALLY bad idea.


ah ha, but what happens when you/i/anyone comes across the psycho meth head who doesn't care WHO you are or WHY you're near their stash, and is behemothly determined to keep their operation "safe?" i would say that i wouldn't be too worried about things going "boom" at that point...



roro said:


> If everyone had a gun, everyone would be dangerous.



quite incorrect. ever heard the philosophy that "an armed society is a polite society"? it is very true. in the theoretical situation that EVERYONE, criminals/felons/etc were armed, willing, and able/trained to use their arms, there would be practically NO crime because all would know that their neighbor was armed and ready to end their life. criminals tend to prey on whom they believe will be WEAK, and are generally surprised when they encounter an armed citizen.

and another question, what designated "truly qualified"? am i "truly qualified" as a veteran? no, i learned to shoot handguns outside the military, and knew how to shoot already. many cops ONLY qualify as required, which is NOT enough trigger time to be "qualified." it's a mindset, and shooting is a perishable skill. all who carry guns daily MUST practice to be PREPARED. simple as that. the swiss are a good model of that as a nation...



NorthernMama said:


> <sigh> Get your permit. I'm sooooo envious. These freakin' city-slicker gun control advocates up here drive me bonkers. I *wish* I would be able to carry a gun. Even GETTING a handgun here is a pain in the butt. You have to be a member of a gun club, or a collector. You can't just have one because you want one, or because you live in the bush. There is supposedly a concealed permit available in Canada, but one has NEVER BEEN ISSUED to a civilian.
> 
> Go get your permit because YOU CAN!


so true! if you live in a gun friendly state that had "shall issue" permitting, why would you NOT? it's a large part of the reason why i drug my wife out of NYS, their insanely foolish "pistol permits" required simply to PURCHASE handgun, much less the corruption in the system to carry the **** thing.



SmoothTrails said:


> I'm too young to carry a gun as of now, but as soon as I am old enough I will have one. We have had issues with break-ins in my hometown, and I don't trust to many people if I am by myself. I have pepper spray and 3 knives for now...lol. I'm thinking about getting a taser at some point.
> 
> I think that everyone should have a gun. There would be a lower crime rate. Who wants to rob you when they know you probably have a gun and know how to use it?


spray is a good option. i DO carry both a can of fox labs spray and my gun. having options is good. however, i would suggest sticking with spray due to some of the controversy over tasers...

and there's a reason why in EVERY state that passes a CCW law, or laxes silly gun laws, there's a DROP in crime even when many of the anti gun city folk (usually) start screaming how there will be blood in the streets...


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## wild_spot

> if you live in a gun friendly state that had "shall issue" permitting, why would you NOT?


Because you might have absolutely NO desire to carry/purchase a gun or even think about shooting something? You couldn't pay me to carry a gun.


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## spence

wild_spot said:


> Because you might have absolutely NO desire to carry/purchase a gun or even think about shooting something? You couldn't pay me to carry a gun.


ah, yes, but you already admitted to living where you do: anti gun australia, where the culture is not nearly as firearm friendly as it is here.


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## kevinshorses

wild_spot said:


> Because you might have absolutely NO desire to carry/purchase a gun or even think about shooting something? You couldn't pay me to carry a gun.


 
It's okay that you feel like that because your government thinks of you as a criminal that only lacks a gun to be dangerous. When your government banned handguns for the average subject (they don't think of you as a citizen) the crime rate jumped. Why? Because criminals were the only ones that didn't turn thier guns in. Why? Because they are Criminals. Every type of violent crime is already illegal and they still happen, so how can passing a law against using a certain method be expected to help?


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## wild_spot

Admitted? I'm proud of where I live, I don't have to 'admit' it.

I don't care where I live. I could quite easily get a gun as we have a property. My dad has a rifle out at the farm. I have never even touched it let alone shot at anything, and I have no desire to. That wouldn't change if I moved to the US.

I don't particularly like guns, I don't want to use a gun, and I don't want to own a gun. I especially don't want to shoot anything.

I'm sure i'm not the only one.


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## wild_spot

*sigh* - I'm not here to debate gun laws. My views would be the same no matter where I live. This is my *personal* view on guns and has nothing to do with my countries laws vs. your countries laws.


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## spence

now that we have thoroughly hijacked this thread....



wild_spot said:


> *sigh* - I'm not here to debate gun laws. My views would be the same no matter where I live. This is my *personal* view on guns and has nothing to do with my countries laws vs. your countries laws.


i think you mildly misunderstood my statement. it was not meant as a bash on the laws of your country, i simply meant that it IS likely had you been born and grown up in the US where laws are much more liberal in that department, your views would be different. same as had i not grown up in the sticks where guns are the norm and often necessary, i would be likely to NOT own them, or have the same views that i have regarding owning and utilizing guns.

guns are tools, nothing more. not everyone owns a set of wrenches or a screwdriver. not everyone owns a gun. i would say that what a lot of us are saying is that a gun is a tool, and at times a gun is the BEST, MOST EFFECTIVE tool for the job at hand, whether it be defending ones self against a two or four legged attacker, or putting a severely injured horse down too far from civilization to be able to do anything else to care for the animal.


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## wild_spot

^ I was more responding to Kevin about the gun laws - I have no interest in politics so am not really qualified to talk about it even if I did care!

Back to guns - I don't think my views are a results of where I was brought up. I have been with my dad shooting crows and rabbits and know quite a few people who shoot. My views are more related to me being a wuss! I couldn't shoot anything - I can't even give a needle to a cow. The roughest country I ride is when i'm getting cattle off the hills with dad - he would be the one to do the deed if we had to shoot a horse. I actually found a horse who needed to be shot and imediately called dad. unfortunately it died by the time he got there (a few minutes) but even if I had a gun I couldn't have done it. I know it is the right thing to do, but I could not bring myself to do it. It's a crappy part of my personality - it causes me grief sometimes, but I am what I am and I couldn't shoot anything.

Plus, I am super clumsy so would be nervous I would accidentally shoot myself or something! Since the only possible reason I would actually use a gun for is frightening a robber or such I could probably make-do with a fake to wave around, lol!


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## Walkamile

Wild Spot, that's fine, knowing yourself and what you are comfortable with and not. At this stage in your life , this is how you feel. When I was younger, I felt the same way, even though I was raised around hunting, target shooting and skeet shooting (which I was good at).

Now at this stage in my life along with my life experiences, I have no qualms about carrying a gun when riding in remote areas alone. Like I said earlier, if I am parted from my horse, I would prefer to have some protection from both 2 and 4 legged predators.

Freedom of choice is something we have here in the states, and we are fierce about it, including the right to bear arms. If a fellow citizen does not desire to, that is absolutely fine, it's about choice.


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## wild_spot

> If a fellow citizen does not desire to, that is absolutely fine, it's about choice.


See, that's the view I like. I'm not anti-guns - I just don't want one myself.

I was just responding to a poster earlier who said everybody should have a gun. Just wanted to add that there are probably quite a few people who would say thanks, but no thanks!


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## Amba1027

wild_spot said:


> Just wanted to add that there are probably quite a few people who would say thanks, but no thanks!


I'm with you on that one. I have absolutely no desire to have a gun, nor do my parents.


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## Painted Horse

I don't see a problem with your view. I carry a gun, but my daughters don't. I have begged them to get hunter safety certificate so I can put them in for limted entry elk tags here in Utah. And they won't because they don't want to shoot anything. but they will come hunting with me. They have found it fascinating to clean and butcher a deer.

If one of horses needed to be put down, I wouldn't ask my daughters to that task. As a parent I would like to shield them from some of the harsh side of life. That doesn't mean that I would tell them what happened or let them witness. but I wouldn't ask my daughter to pull the trigger.


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## spence

wild_spot said:


> See, that's the view I like. I'm not anti-guns - I just don't want one myself.


and i see nothing wrong with this, you are titled to your opinion, however i do have the opinion that everyone should have at least one, BUT it doesn't mean i'll try to force my opinion on you....


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## Kentucky

wild_spot said:


> ^ I was more responding to Kevin about the gun laws - I have no interest in politics so am not really qualified to talk about it even if I did care!
> 
> Back to guns - I don't think my views are a results of where I was brought up. I have been with my dad shooting crows and rabbits and know quite a few people who shoot. My views are more related to me being a wuss! I couldn't shoot anything - I can't even give a needle to a cow. The roughest country I ride is when i'm getting cattle off the hills with dad - he would be the one to do the deed if we had to shoot a horse. I actually found a horse who needed to be shot and imediately called dad. unfortunately it died by the time he got there (a few minutes) but even if I had a gun I couldn't have done it. I know it is the right thing to do, but I could not bring myself to do it. It's a crappy part of my personality - it causes me grief sometimes, but I am what I am and I couldn't shoot anything.
> 
> Plus, I am super clumsy so would be nervous I would accidentally shoot myself or something! Since the only possible reason I would actually use a gun for is frightening a robber or such I could probably make-do with a fake to wave around, lol!


I understand why you feel you don't like guns, and you are calling yourself a wuss, I see where you could be called that. But you are honest enough to know what you can and can't do, there is more honest than some "gun nuts". I would also suggest taking a martial arts class to help with your clumsiness, it might help your riding ability too.

I am also strongly progun rights, but every person has the right to decide for themselves if they want or need a weapon and like all freedoms to accept the moral and legal responsibility that goes with it.


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## RhondaLynn

Wow, I didn't mean to open such a BIG can of worms! I am planning to get my permit. THANKS for the humilitation to make me go ahead and get it done. 

I know that owning and using a gun is such a personal opinion. Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion and I'm proud we have the right to do/think as we chose. If you would not use a gun in certain situations then by all means please don't get one. THAT IS YOUR RIGHT! on the other hand, it is my right to have one and I am extremely thankful I have that right.

Thank you everyone for your opinion and for putting in your 2cents. I appreciate all the comments. One of the posters said he had a gun and nobody ever even knew he had it. THAT is EXACTLY my thoughts on the subject. I want to have it but don't want anyone to know it's there. I hope I NEVER HAVE TO USE IT, either on 2 or 4 legged critters.

Rhonda


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