# Dealing with Aggressive dogs?



## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Yes, there is a similar thread going on about this right now:

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-talk/ridiculous-trail-ride-experience-479794/

When I posted my experiences (similar to yours) I didn't receive much sympathy, being told my horses should be trained to accept dogs. :evil:

Luckily my biggest problem offender got run over (a husky) because he also chased cars. I am only slightly ashamed to admit it was welcome news. Actually, I probably did a little happy dance. 

I wonder if you actually took video of the offending dogs nipping at you and your horses, you would have better evidence of how aggressive they are? I don't know if that would help you before a bite, but would probably help you afterwards. At least the police/owners would be on notice there is a problem. 

It seems like dog people feel their dogs have the right to run loose and harass passersby. :-x


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## Samson5261 (Jul 25, 2013)

I thought about doing the video but when the dogs start trying to bite at the horses they start kicking at them and spooking. They don't do this if they just bark and I really can't blame. Them as I would do the same if I was being attacked! I have thought about having a friend come with and having them video it but I just don't wanna risk someone getting hurt!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

I agree with getting some documentation going -- a video is always nice but stills will do in a pinch as well. A short time ago, one of my neighbours was having trouble with dogs coming on to his place and being bad. He went to the trouble of getting pics and film -- this greatly aided his request for support from our police to end the problem (he said the officer was quite surprised to see actual evidence as I personally suspect they get calls from folks who are quick to complain but cannot substantiate the existence of the problem).

How is the neighbourhood dynamic affected with regard to kids out and about on the street if these dogs are free? Perhaps fellow neighbours need to be encouraged into making complaints as well.

I totally agree that a person should be able to walk down a public road in peace and quiet, and that it shouldn't matter if they have just themselves, a child, a dog or a horse in tow.


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## Samson5261 (Jul 25, 2013)

From what I have seen people just don't let their kids go outside when the dogs are loose. No one likes these people and have expressed there anger about them. Maybe if I can convince them if the police get enough complaints they will actually do something!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

I just read your additional post Samson -- I get what you're saying about not having someone get hurt but I suspect these are the type of people who will not do anything different out of a sense of responsibility and it regrettably falls upon you to set matters straight. To that end, a plan needs to be put in place and I'm being somewhat facetious when I say this but have your friend where tall boots and heavy socks on filming day.

Btw, keep us posted on how this matter resolves. Good luck.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

Is there a leash law in your town ? Call animal control , spca or whomever. Police handle crimes, so there has to be a crime. Try walking the other direction down the road to avoid that house. You would need everyone to call animal control and file a complaint, but then the dogs my be killed, and it is the owners fault not the dogs, and they would probably just replace the dogs.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

Have a friend drive along behind you as you walk past. That way they won't get hurt. And carry a can of wasp spray, it shoots a good 20 feet. Aim for faces.


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## Samson5261 (Jul 25, 2013)

There is no leash law or animal control. It's a very small town and everyone has a mind set of mind your own business. I will have a friend follow in my truck and I wonder if I put thick padding on my horses legs if that at least will protect them just in case? They haven't managed to bite him yet but they get braver every time after last time I wa amazed rowdy didn't have a bite on him! After that attack I stoped walking him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CowgirlCasseay (Sep 18, 2014)

you need to contact the police and have the dogs looked at so you ur children and ur animals do not get hurt


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Train your horse to tolerate a beebee gun, and then use it on those dogs. If that doesn't stop them, then avoid them, bc they WILL attack you.


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## Samson5261 (Jul 25, 2013)

Corporal said:


> Train your horse to tolerate a beebee gun, and then use it on those dogs. If that doesn't stop them, then avoid them, bc they WILL attack you.


I thought about the Beebee gun. I have two and I'm a pretty good shot though I have not shot at anything that moves. I don't really want to shoot them even with a Beebee but I will to protect me and my animals! They may get a kick to one already got grazed and you would of thought that would have tought it to stay away!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

After the first time they came on the road to attack, I would have told the owner to keep the dogs under control and in their yard. If the dogs are on the road, you have the right to use any means necessary to protect yourself and I would tell them that too. The dogs would not fair well the second attack.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

I would carry bear spray. If they come at you, spray them. It is self defense for you and your horses. Have a friend walk with you so they can record the attack and when you spray in self defense. Then take a trip to the local police station and show them what happened and what you have to do to stay safe walking down the road.


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## Samson5261 (Jul 25, 2013)

I have tried to talk to the owners. They just don't care or start saying I'm an idiot for walking my horse down the road! I will get the bear spay and have a friend follow in the truck behind me! They are not always out loose so I never know when I go walking if they are out or not. Here lately I have just not been walking.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

"§ 20-19-102. Domesticated animals--Injuries by dogs

(a)(1) “Domesticated animals” includes, but is not limited to, sheep, goats, cattle, swine, and poultry.

(2) Any person owning or having in possession or under control any dog shall be liable in damages to the owner or owners of any domesticated animals killed or injured by the dog in the full value of the domesticated animal killed or injured.

(b)(1) Any person engaged in raising domesticated animals or owning any domesticated animals who shall sustain any loss or damages to his or her or their domesticated animals by any dog shall have a right of action against the owner, person, or controller of the dog.

(2) Any person knowing that any dog has killed or is about to catch, injure, or kill any domesticated animal shall have the right to kill the dog, without in any way being liable to the owner of the dog in any courts of this state.

(c) The person sustaining loss or damage as mentioned in this section and desiring remuneration therefor may go before some justice of the peace of the county wherein the loss or damage occurred and make oath of the character of the loss or damage sustained, the value of the loss or damage, the dog or dogs, and the owner, possessor, or controller of the dog and file the same with the justice of the peace, who shall issue a summons stating the nature of the plaintiff's claim, the amount claimed, and the cost accrued, which shall be served and returned as in ordinary actions.

(d)(1) If the defendant shall pay to the officer serving the summons the amount of damages claimed, the costs endorsed, and a further fee to the officer of twenty-five cents (25¢) for making the return, the summons shall be returned satisfied, and no further proceedings had.

(2) If the defendant fails, neglects, or refuses to pay that amount, the justice of the peace shall try the cause as in other ordinary actions and give judgment in favor of the plaintiff for the amount proved in the cause, for which the defendant may be liable under this section.

(e) In a second suit and recovery by any plaintiff against the same defendant on account of killing or injury done by the same dog, the justice of the peace shall render judgment for double the amount of damages proven.

CREDIT(S)

Acts of 1887, Act 136, §§ 1 to 4, p. 235; Acts of 1917, Act 155, §§ 1, 2; Acts of 1987, Act 393, §§ 1, 2."


You have the right to shoot the dogs. Get a paint ball gun. hurts ALOT more then a beebee gun. You can also shoot them to kill. and let the owner know if the dogs attack your LIVESTOCK (ie your horses) you has the right to legal action against them and the law is in your favor. I carry a gun with me for this reason. i DON'T EVER want to shoot a dog, but i will if i have to. They are also roaming at large and that is against the law. and i can bet they dint have rabies shots so that is a big no too.


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## Chasin Ponies (Dec 25, 2013)

A spray bottle of ammonia might be safer to carry-I've taught women's self defense classes and a lot of times women who carry things like Mace or Hot Pepper Spray end up incapacitating themselves with the over spray. Wasp spray or bear spray are going in the right direction but could overwhelm you.

Make sure your horse is fine with spray bottles, wait till the dog gets somewhat close and spray straight into the face. You may even be able to train the dogs to leave you alone and chances are, the neighbors can be "trained" to keep their dogs away!

I do like the idea of having a friend videotape this. The police cannot and will not do anything based on hearsay and these dog owners will make all kinds of wild accusations when their dogs get sprayed. A video will prove that it was self defense!


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## Samson5261 (Jul 25, 2013)

Chasin Ponies said:


> A spray bottle of ammonia might be safer to carry-I've taught women's self defense classes and a lot of times women who carry things like Mace or Hot Pepper Spray end up incapacitating themselves with the over spray. Wasp spray or bear spray are going in the right direction but could overwhelm you.
> 
> Make sure your horse is fine with spray bottles, wait till the dog gets somewhat close and spray straight into the face. You may even be able to train the dogs to leave you alone and chances are, the neighbors can be "trained" to keep their dogs away!
> 
> I do like the idea of having a friend videotape this. The police cannot and will not do anything based on hearsay and these dog owners will make all kinds of wild accusations when their dogs get sprayed. A video will prove that it was self defense!


I really like this idea! I spray the boys down with fly spray everyday so they have no problem with spray bottles and it just so happens I have some ammonia to! Now just have to find someone to video tape!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KsKatt (Jun 2, 2014)

Samson5261 said:


> From what I have seen people just don't let their kids go outside when the dogs are loose. No one likes these people and have expressed there anger about them. Maybe if I can convince them if the police get enough complaints they will actually do something!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You say people have expressed anger. So there is communication going on. And they don't let their kids go out when the dogs are loose. You might want to educate them that there is no doubt the dog owners will not hesitate to let the dogs loose, kids or no kids!:shock: They need to understand that their kids ARE in danger! What is going to happen when the kids are out playing and the dogs get let out? Do they really think they can get the kids in before the dogs get there? The police are also way more likely to listen to complaints where children are concerned. 
Even small towns have city councils, that should meet, publicly, once a month. If the police won't listen, maybe the city council will. Do be prepared if/when you go. If the others won't go, will they write letters?
I will admit that, I would be giving them a real education, about the dogs being let out while their kids are out, that it would scare them in to speaking up. A few descriptions of kids that have been mauled usually get some adrenalin flowing. You seem to be the only one who realizes how risky the situation is. Do it for the kids, sooner or later there will be a problem. 
I'm afraid of what might happen to those dogs, they can't help having idiots for owners.:-( I love Pitts, I hate idiots.:-x


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

My stallion Star has killed two dogs that harassed us as we rode once on my own property and once along the road.
Both owners had numerous dogs and after each lost a pet they controlled their dogs .
I would not care what happened to an aggressive dog and warned the owner that my horse was more valuable than their mutts. I also informed them if I or my horse was injured I would sue.
Wasp spray or any other means to stop the dogs from harassing your horses on public property is acceptable. Shalom


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## jimmyp (Sep 5, 2013)

My answer to aggressive dogs was to get bigger dogs..... I can't post pictures, but Google Sarplaninacs......

Other than that, There have been several good suggestions made, Ammonia spray, pepper spray, any of those things would be a better option than a BB gun. i feel like popping the neighbors dog with a BB gun will put you in a tight spot.

Jim


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

At work we have a "dog fight Kits". There is a spray bottle of Citronella spray and a Air horn. they work and citronella wont hurt you if it blows back. it just overwhelms their powerful noses. and the air horn will startle them and make the stop biting if it happens.


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## whisperbaby22 (Jan 25, 2013)

I would advise you to do some research and think this out. Here in So Cal, so many people have been killed by pits that the courts are finally starting to crack down and charge manslaughter. But it is still hard to deal with the owners of dangerous dogs. They just don't listen. Spraying with anything may not work, just make them madder. And I am not anti pit, most of my neighbors have them and they are wonderful dogs when trained.


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

whisperbaby22 said:


> they are wonderful dogs when trained.


Trained "correctly".

Not training them is still training. Just like when leading a horse, you are still training. If you allow bad behavior, you are training that the behavior is the right behavior. 

This is a perfect example why certain breeds of dogs have bad reputations. We have 2 rottweilers. We had 2 before them. All 4 would lick you to death and were so full of love. We had no hesitation with them being off leash with kids or even babies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## whisperbaby22 (Jan 25, 2013)

Yes thank you. I am passionate about this subject, have lost personal pets to these people (I do not blame the dogs) and had neighbors mauled, children in the community killed and it's always a "tragic accident".


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## Samson5261 (Jul 25, 2013)

I in no way blame the dogs but the people that have aloud them to become this way by just letting them do what ever they want! I have never understood why people get animals and then just ignore them. I got a puppy 2 months ago and have spent hours working with and training him. This behavior from any of my dogs would not be tolerated at all!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shoebox (Apr 18, 2012)

Please don't spray them with ammonia and wasp killer. That could very well lead to blindness, those things are very toxic. If you're gonna spray, pepper spray or citronella will have the same effect, and not do long lasting damage. It doesn't even have to be bear spray - believe me, ANY pepper spray will stop even a dog that is charging aggressively.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

Shoebox said:


> Please don't spray them with ammonia and wasp killer. That could very well lead to blindness, those things are very toxic. If you're gonna spray, pepper spray or citronella will have the same effect, and not do long lasting damage. It doesn't even have to be bear spray - believe me, ANY pepper spray will stop even a dog that is charging aggressively.


Pepper spray and such are completely ineffective at any sort of range, which means the dog already has you by the time you spray him. And frankly, I don't CARE about any dog aggressive enough to come after me or mine in that way. Personally, I use a pistol.


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## Shoebox (Apr 18, 2012)

squirrelfood said:


> Pepper spray and such are completely ineffective at any sort of range, which means the dog already has you by the time you spray him. And frankly, I don't CARE about any dog aggressive enough to come after me or mine in that way. Personally, I use a pistol.


Then you're using the wrong pepper spray. Many pepper sprays and maces have a long squirt range. I've got some on my keychain right now. I had to take in in the face to work security. You can do what you want, I'm simply offering another option for people who don't have the conscience to shoot dogs.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

squirrelfood said:


> Pepper spray and such are completely ineffective at any sort of range, which means the dog already has you by the time you spray him. And frankly, I don't CARE about any dog aggressive enough to come after me or mine in that way. Personally, I use a pistol.


I have bear spray that has a pretty good range on it. I've had to spray it before and I get probably close to a 10 foot range on it.


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## Maryland Rider (Jul 2, 2013)

squirrelfood said:


> Pepper spray and such are completely ineffective at any sort of range, which means the dog already has you by the time you spray him. And frankly, I don't CARE about any dog aggressive enough to come after me or mine in that way. Personally, I use a pistol.


I like this post! 

If a pistol seems to aggressive to some consider a pellet gun, CO2 powered.
Horses are not startled as much and pellets or BB's will make a dog run.


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## MyBoySi (Dec 1, 2011)

I don't really have any suggestions that haven't already been said but just wanted to say how much I hate bad pitt bull owners. My two are the most loving, awesome, well trained dogs you could hope to meet one is even a therapy dog often visiting nursing homes. They are very respectful of my horses and often accompany me on trail rides and know better then to harass my horses or other animals. 

I'm so sick of crappy owners bringing the breed down. Ridiculous.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

Agreed! I had a pit, she was an exfighting dog. She was NOT ok with other dogs ad strangers. Sooo she was NEVER around either. And she was properly housed to prevent said encounters. My uncle Jack Miller retrains aggressive dogs and takes them from dangerous to family dogs. I also ha \d wolf hybirds that thought smaller dogs (or large dogs at times) where food. I grew up with them and raised them so they where good with people, but small animals where food (to them). I NEVER had in incident with an outside animal (went after our dobie. we put an end to that quick). I see these out of control dogs and aggressive dogs it makes me mad.

I never blame the dogs, just their owners. That being said i still carry a gun. if a dog is aggressive enough to go after a 1000lb animal AND the horse owner, it should not be where children are at risk. If i have to personally remove it, i will.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

NBEventer said:


> I have bear spray that has a pretty good range on it. I've had to spray it before and I get probably close to a 10 foot range on it.


The average can of wasp spray is good for 20 feet in a concentrated STREAM, not a spreading spray which is just as likely to blow back into YOUR face as to hit the dog. *I* certainly feel much safer with it. YOU can take the chance if you wish.


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## jimmyp (Sep 5, 2013)

My assumption is that people who don't care enough about you to stop their dogs from being aggressive, will be the same people who get really stupid if you smoke one of their dogs with anything. These are typically the kind of people who thrive on eye for an eye mentality. 

I shot a guys mutt who was on pasture chasing our weanling calves. A couple days later we had 2 shot sheep and a dead great pyranese. A week after that a bird dog shot in my kennel. 
His meth lab was busted a month later.
All im saying is tread lightly.

Jim


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

That same pistol can have a "people popper" just as easily. I WILL protect myself. For that matter, I like dogs more than most people.


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

While I'd be sorely tempted to shoot the offending brutes, I'd be more inclined to buy a burro. Not a cutesy fuzzy pet donkey. A genuine *** with a personality to match his moniker. Preferably one being sold off because it has already killed a dog. A nice walk by the house in question with a lead rope long enough to allow Jack to defend himself without hindrance just might teach the dogs a bit of respect. Then, train your horse and burro to walk nicely together.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Paintball gun.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

squirrelfood said:


> The average can of wasp spray is good for 20 feet in a concentrated STREAM, not a spreading spray which is just as likely to blow back into YOUR face as to hit the dog. *I* certainly feel much safer with it. YOU can take the chance if you wish.


Hell, no. I walked into a room ten minutes after it got sprayed and eyes burned! Intense stuff.


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## Samson5261 (Jul 25, 2013)

jimmyp said:


> My assumption is that people who don't care enough about you to stop their dogs from being aggressive, will be the same people who get really stupid if you smoke one of their dogs with anything. These are typically the kind of people who thrive on eye for an eye mentality.
> 
> I shot a guys mutt who was on pasture chasing our weanling calves. A couple days later we had 2 shot sheep and a dead great pyranese. A week after that a bird dog shot in my kennel.
> His meth lab was busted a month later.
> ...


I am worried about if I do anything that they will retaliate! I keep my horses about a mile down the road. They are not hard to find and most people know where they are. I'm even more worried if they learn I have contacted the police a few times about their dogs. From the looks of their house they don't want no one especially the police snooping around!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## whisperbaby22 (Jan 25, 2013)

All this is why I am advising caution. A few years ago, new neighbors were creating a real problem. Eventually, so many puppies were on the property that we were able to have the dogs taken by animal control. Long story short, for about 6 months I lived in fear, now the whole neighborhood hates these creeps, and I have no more problems with them. Be safe, you may have to wait this out.


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## Samson5261 (Jul 25, 2013)

whisperbaby22 said:


> All this is why I am advising caution. A few years ago, new neighbors were creating a real problem. Eventually, so many puppies were on the property that we were able to have the dogs taken by animal control. Long story short, for about 6 months I lived in fear, now the whole neighborhood hates these creeps, and I have no more problems with them. Be safe, you may have to wait this out.


Its a male and female and neither are spayed/neutered so I'm expecting them to multiply. Sadly though I doubt that the dogs will be taken. We have no AC and the police debt don't care about dogs. The police here are critized all the time for being lazy and jerks. That's why people often handle issues on their own.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## whisperbaby22 (Jan 25, 2013)

When they do breed they will become even more aggressive.


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

My last post was only half joking. Each solution offered comes with it's own set of pros and cons. The sprays are subject to wind and whether or not the person can continue to defend herself even if impaired by her own spray. Firearms, and possibly the sprays are subject to widely varying state and local laws and ordinances. Anyone using them had better know all the legal implications of doing so. And if a pit bull managed to get a grip on the nose, throat, or even a leg of my hypothetical gallant burro...


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

DH and I always pack a gun that shoots two kinds of bullets, one to kill a snake and another to put down a horse, whould be severely injured, suffering and too far or remote to be taken out for medical treatment. We have only had to shoot a snake with it.
Whatever you do, stop being squeemish about shooting! If you are on a public road, and not the private property of the dog's owner's, you are within your rights to protect yourself and your animal. When I took a dog that "needed room to run" and discovered that he couldn't be kept in and would often escape, I figured that every time he was gone for a few days that someone had shot him. Didn't happen...you could tell the time of a 3-day weekend by that dog. =/
Since you are reaching for a non-violent solution my suggestion is that you stop walking your horse along this route and let these people keep their dangerous dogs to atack somebody else. I would feel pretty badly if I didn't protect my horse from an attack that left him scarred just bc I didn't want to shoot a vicious dog or two.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Not sure if I missed it - do they know their dogs are like this? Have you talked to them in person?


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## Samson5261 (Jul 25, 2013)

WSArabians said:


> Not sure if I missed it - do they know their dogs are like this? Have you talked to them in person?


They do know and have witnessed them attacking us. They usually just yell at the dogs or ignore what's happening. I have tried talking to them and was told that I'm an idiot for walking a horse down the road. Pretty sure they where high when I spoke to them so I didn't stick around long.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KsKatt (Jun 2, 2014)

jimmyp said:


> My answer to aggressive dogs was to get bigger dogs..... I can't post pictures, but Google Sarplaninacs......
> 
> Jim


Please tell me you weren't really serious? The vision that comes into my mind is a huge dog fight in the middle of the road. Let's just get several dogs injured, perhaps dead. Doesn't sound like a plan to me.


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## whisperbaby22 (Jan 25, 2013)

Unless you are pretty good with a gun, shooting is not going to help. I know it is frustrating that you cannot walk down the street you pay taxes on - when those dogs were terrorizing my place, I could not go in my front yard when they were out there. Please do some research. The case in So Cal that went for manslaughter, the facts are this. Lady was out walking in rural area. She was mauled to death by these dogs. Husband said they had no idea vicious dogs were in the area, but follow up reports by police found many complaints against these dogs. The owners defense was that these dogs had been dumped in the area, and he was a good guy for taking them in. The fact that he had illegal drugs found on his property is probably what prompted legal action. Most owners of dogs that kill and maim get no punishment at all.


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## KsKatt (Jun 2, 2014)

jimmyp said:


> My assumption is that people who don't care enough about you to stop their dogs from being aggressive, will be the same people who get really stupid if you smoke one of their dogs with anything. These are typically the kind of people who thrive on eye for an eye mentality.
> 
> I shot a guys mutt who was on pasture chasing our weanling calves. A couple days later we had 2 shot sheep and a dead great pyranese. A week after that a bird dog shot in my kennel.
> His meth lab was busted a month later.
> ...


Right here is a big reason I say to go through the authorities, if not police then city. Going through the authorities makes revenge highly unlikely without getting in even more trouble. They are on record, makes it way easier to prove they caused more. At least try. Talk to the neighbors, tell them the danger their kids are in. Get them motivated. What can it hurt to try?


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## BugZapper89 (Jun 30, 2014)

We have leash laws where I am and dogs running at large, particularly problem dogs will be shot by the police. For me my favorite show horse has killed more dogs then I can count and one if the main reasons I bought him. I would let the horse take care of business. My daughters barrel horse got a bag if carrots from a fellow competitor after he killed a dog running loose at a show earlier this year. You can pick up a cheap cattle prod from the local tractor supply. Spray paint works great too. The auto spray paint to the eyes will stop the worst of dogs


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

cattle prod is a good alternative. I like that idea. Set it to high (like make a bull jump, high). The dogs will pee themselves when you come walking.


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

I'm glad my mare despises dogs..If you don't tell her to leave it and mean it, there's likely to be a dead friendly dog. But if I point her at one and tell her to move, she'll chase that dog down and maul it. I don't much worry about dogs for that reason, but I'll still be sending the idiots that owned said dog the vet bill if the dog gets anything in.
On a good note though, the majority of people on the roads we walk on have their dogs secured somehow, and if not they're usually friendly. I haven't had a problem with any of the dogs around since I moved to my buddy's barn and do a ton of road riding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jimmyp (Sep 5, 2013)

KsKatt said:


> Please tell me you weren't really serious? The vision that comes into my mind is a huge dog fight in the middle of the road. Let's just get several dogs injured, perhaps dead. Doesn't sound like a plan to me.



I'm only half joking. I do ride with 2 very controllable 140lb. Dogs that don't put up with any BS and I can assure you there is no dog fight, the 2 times push has come to shove, I just kicked the offender off in the ditch....... Our issue is not neighborhood dogs but the strays that get pitched, they become hungry and aggressive.


Jim


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

BugZapper89 said:


> We have leash laws where I am and dogs running at large, particularly problem dogs will be shot by the police. For me my favorite show horse has killed more dogs then I can count and one if the main reasons I bought him. I would let the horse take care of business. My daughters barrel horse got a bag if carrots from a fellow competitor after he killed a dog running loose at a show earlier this year. You can pick up a cheap cattle prod from the local tractor supply. Spray paint works great too. The auto spray paint to the eyes will stop the worst of dogs



you take glee in the killing of an animal?

sometimes a puppy will get loose and run up and bark at a horse becuase he has not sense, yet. for that, you'd spray toxic paint in his eyes , cause him excruciating pain and maim him for life?

i can see the cattle prod, but not the paint, nor allowing a hrose to kill a dog unless your very life is threatened. and certainly not taking a malicious glee in a hrose that kicks a dog to death.


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## 4hoofbeat (Jun 27, 2013)

my neighbors horse didn't like dogs. he picked one up and flung him. dog never bothered that horse again. 

i would say find another way to walk, the other direction? maybe.


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

BugZapper89 said:


> The auto spray paint to the eyes will stop the worst of dogs


Did I miss something? Did this dog attack someone or a Horse? The dog was simply running loose if I read correctly.

We don't even brutalized serial rapist murderers and yet brutalizing a dog is OK.... no words...:-(


.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

Yes, you missed something.......

And for the record...if anyone tried to rape me, I would SERIOUSLY brutalize them. In a heartbeat. Maybe twice, if he lived.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

that is the point: self defence is self defense, and all restraint goes out the window. your life is being threatened. but, were these cases of a dog barking at a horse, or cases of a dog getting ready to tear you limb from limb? 
can you not avoid the dog? What I meant is you don't kill it just becuase you can, or becuase it scared you.

comparing this to rape is silly. no one would question you if you used any means to escape a rapist, but that's a different story.


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## TessaMay (Jul 26, 2013)

I agree that this situation is terrible and that the owners should be held responsible, the dogs taken and the owners not allowed to purchase new ones, but let's be honest, that doesn't often happen in this world. Sadly. 

I am in the camp that doing anything directly, other than trying to get authorities involved with hard evidence like video and asking others to report them as well, would be too dangerous for me to attempt. I would worry about my horses being shot. Is there another way you can walk them to avoid the house? I know you shouldn't have to, but it's the option I would choose if it was me.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

tinyliny said:


> comparing this to rape is silly. no one would question you if you used any means to escape a rapist, but that's a different story.


I agree. I didn't make the comparison, only answered to it.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

BugZapper89 said:


> We have leash laws where I am and dogs running at large, particularly problem dogs will be shot by the police. For me my favorite show horse has killed more dogs then I can count and one if the main reasons I bought him. I would let the horse take care of business. My daughters barrel horse got a bag if carrots from a fellow competitor after he killed a dog running loose at a show earlier this year. You can pick up a cheap cattle prod from the local tractor supply. Spray paint works great too. The auto spray paint to the eyes will stop the worst of dogs


Although I agree loose dogs are a liability and owners should be made to take responsibility for them and if they persist in letting them loose, heavily fined and the animals removed.

To openly state that allowing a horse to kill dogs is a good reason for purchasing it makes me wonder at Bugs thinking. 

I have used my hunting whip to drive dogs off when going after the horses, I have shot dogs for sheep killing, but I would never resort to spraying a dog in the up eyes with paint or allowing any horse in my care to kill a dog.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

I used to own a lovely little Arabian mare well known for stomping a mudhole in the middle of aggressive dogs. She never bothered any that didn't come for her. No WAY would I stop that! She was better than a donkey for keeping the herd safe.


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## Samson5261 (Jul 25, 2013)

I don't want to kill them but even if the authorities take them they are both aggressive Pitt bulls they will be pts before they even see a kennel. Sadly there will not be a happy ending for these dogs no matter what happens and its not their fault but the owners fault! There is another way I can walk but its very hilly and well creepy at the time I go which is late in the evening! Lol I do walk that way every now and then if I go out early enough. It's better than being attacked by dogs that's for sure. Lately I have just been working on getting him to lunge which has been interesting!! Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

both dogs Star killed were nipping at his heels. They died because of owner neglect and carelessness. 
Myself, Star, and anyone near us were in dangerous situation, if he had bolted. 
The OP has to consider not only their life the horses and anyone walking or driving that road.
The dog owners did not care about the safety of their pets, the OP, the horse or their neighbors. I would not care if the dogs were killed, blinded by some chemicals, or injured as long as my horse and I were safe.
The OP has every right to use a public road. 
The dogs are a nuisance and need to be leashed, fenced in, disciplined, or eliminated. Shalom


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

brutalizing a dog is just as irresponsible as the owners are irresponsible for letting them loose.
two wrongs do not make a right. If my dog was loose, i would attempt to contain it, but if someone sprayed my Dog with a chemical of any sort, I would be livid. 
There are legal ways to deal with things.
I find it hard to believe that this town in ARKANSAS has No leash laws. Hard to believe. 
I would like to know what town, I would look it up . Or have a relative in Arkansas look it up for me.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

stevenson said:


> brutalizing a dog is just as irresponsible as the owners are irresponsible for letting them loose.
> two wrongs do not make a right. If my dog was loose, i would attempt to contain it, but if someone sprayed my Dog with a chemical of any sort, I would be livid.
> There are legal ways to deal with things.
> I find it hard to believe that this town in ARKANSAS has No leash laws. Hard to believe.
> I would like to know what town, I would look it up . Or have a relative in Arkansas look it up for me.


No leash laws in MY part of Arkansas either. I looked. And I WILL "brutalize" a dog OR human before I will allow it to brutalize me or mine.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

stevenson said:


> brutalizing a dog is just as irresponsible as the owners are irresponsible for letting them loose.
> two wrongs do not make a right. If my dog was loose, i would attempt to contain it, but if someone sprayed my Dog with a chemical of any sort, I would be livid.
> There are legal ways to deal with things.
> I find it hard to believe that this town in ARKANSAS has No leash laws. Hard to believe.
> I would like to know what town, I would look it up . Or have a relative in Arkansas look it up for me.


Any loose dog that places me or my horse in a dangerous position is fair game . Any horse bolts into traffic or through a persons yard is dangerous and could harm itself, a person or get hit by a car. 
No dogs life or health is worth mine or another human beings
The first time Star kicked and killed a dog on MY property I tried to prevent the kick.
The next time I let him hit the mutt with both hind legs. I felt no remorse or pity either time. 
In fact I ride Star by houses that have dogs that have harassed me or other riders after informing them of the danger their dogs might encounter in the future. Shalom


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## txtooh (Jul 7, 2014)

I honestly have no advice for you just family experience. My sister and her hubby were riding on dirt/gravel roads that we road as kids - we are now 40 +yrs old. Kids on 4 wheelers past them with a dog following- the dog attacked her horse. My sister was life flighted to trauma hospital and was there for 3 days. She eventually lost her horse over the injury caused by this dog. She will not ride on any road now and is still paying the bills. The dog was never found. 

Hubby has concealed carry permit and he carries anytime we ride off of our property - which we very seldom do. 

You certainly don't want to go looking for issues but at the same time the public road is there for the public to use.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

^ that is why i ALWAYS carry now. Horribly sad. Also OP if the dogs get lose and run at large be aware they can end up at your door too.


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## tinaev (Dec 2, 2012)

I cannot handle people that don't keep their dogs contained on their property. It is dangerous for humans and the dogs themselves when they bite someone and then wind up in quarantine/put down for doing so. And if one of those dogs were to bite your horses and cause a real injury I'm sure the vet bills would be horrible. Enter in giant lawsuits from people etc. Just seems so much easier to keep them contained, doesn't it?!

Anyway, I am like you and wouldn't risk my animals by continuing to walk that route. I would also invest in that special spray they make for dogs. I don't remember exactly how it works but I think it goes blind for about 30 seconds and then clears up. Just enough time for you to make an escape.


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

It is important for all of us to remember that these comments are coming in from all points of the globe. Regional and even cultural differences will come into play. What may be unacceptable, or even illegal in one place may be the best course of action in another. 



Foxhunter said:


> Although I agree loose dogs are a liability and owners should be made to take responsibility for them and if they persist in letting them loose, heavily fined and the animals removed."
> 
> The OP stated that she was in rural Arkansas, and there is no leash law in her area. There will be no fine, nor removal of the animals. The police have told her that they cannot take action until a crime has already been committed, ie; livestock or people attacked.
> 
> ...


In your case neither a dog killing horse, nor a dog that attacks horses are acceptable.


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## SummerShy (Aug 3, 2014)

Some of the dogs down my county roads are seriously freaking annoying, but we deal. The little ones who yap yap yap and darn near run under our feet are the ones I can't STAND. When the neighbors are out and they see us they're good about calling them in, but the majority of the time I have to just let her see them, and walk on - and hope she doesn't spook  

Getting your horse used to the dogs is the best thing you can do for the both of you.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

I've always found it somewhat difficult to get a horse used to large dogs peeling hide off his legs. The blood really seems to annoy him. Little yappers aren't a problem unless they get stepped on. That high pitched squeal is a bit freaky.


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## SummerShy (Aug 3, 2014)

tinaev said:


> I cannot handle people that don't keep their dogs contained on their property. It is dangerous for humans and the dogs themselves when they bite someone and then wind up in quarantine/put down for doing so. And if one of those dogs were to bite your horses and cause a real injury I'm sure the vet bills would be horrible. Enter in giant lawsuits from people etc. Just seems so much easier to keep them contained, doesn't it?!
> 
> Anyway, I am like you and wouldn't risk my animals by continuing to walk that route. I would also invest in that special spray they make for dogs. I don't remember exactly how it works but I think it goes blind for about 30 seconds and then clears up. Just enough time for you to make an escape.


Ooh they have a spray for that? Can it reach them from the saddle or is it something you put on your horses legs like repellant? 

I HATE when people let their dogs roam free too. I really do. But I'd rather have her used to such things than constantly try to sit a spook from that one random dog... 

Get off and beat the thing with a stick. I'm starting to feel heated!


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## SummerShy (Aug 3, 2014)

squirrelfood said:


> I've always found it somewhat difficult to get a horse used to large dogs peeling hide off his legs. The blood really seems to annoy him. Little yappers aren't a problem unless they get stepped on. That high pitched squeal is a bit freaky.


I didn't read everything completely, so I didn't realize just how aggressive the dog in question was. The dogs down my street will get UP IN YA BIZNIZ, which is one kind of aggressive; the kind they can get used to. But Cujo aggression is not to be tolerated. I'd speak to the owner and then the county if necessary. Even in my crazy ghetto country town there are leash laws.


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## tinaev (Dec 2, 2012)

SummerShy said:


> Ooh they have a spray for that? Can it reach them from the saddle or is it something you put on your horses legs like repellant?
> 
> I HATE when people let their dogs roam free too. I really do. But I'd rather have her used to such things than constantly try to sit a spook from that one random dog...
> 
> Get off and beat the thing with a stick. I'm starting to feel heated!


It is called Halt. I have never used it personally but from what I am told you use it like regular pepper spray, you would not want to apply it to the horse. I've heard that a full can can shoot a stream around 20 feet, once the can becomes depleted a 10 foot stream is what you get. 

According to the website it is a natural pepper spray that causes "temporary, but extreme discomfort" when sprayed at the dog's eyes. I have heard from people it doesn't last long at all and does not hurt the long term health of the dog.


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## Samson5261 (Jul 25, 2013)

I live in arkansas but I board my horses in missouri. I'm right on the boarder the town I live in has a leash law. Go across the boarder to Jane missouri where i board there is no leash law. I don't WANT to hurt these dogs but if I had to choose between me and my horses then yes I would do whatever I have to to protect us. At the moment I have just stoped walking that way but sooner or later those dogs are going to get killed. Either by someone defending themselves, hit by a car or pts by the police department. The only thing that stops me from doing anything is that I'm pretty sure that their house is a meth lab. Wouldn't surprise me considering the town and neighborhood. If I did do anything I would make sure I had witnesses and backup and some place to move my horses ASAP! For now I'm just walking the other way while I form a plan and decide what course to take. I hope this makes sense as I half asleep right now lol!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KsKatt (Jun 2, 2014)

I have to ask, with all these people, the other neighbors, how is everybody going to feel when these dogs maul a child? Everybody knows, nobody is willing to do anything. I know in that situation I would feel as if I had to take some of the guilt. Evil thrives when good people do nothing.
A small child running and squealing, looks just like prey to the pack.


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

For random roaming, loose dogs, I think it is best to teach your horse to tolerate loose dogs, if you do a lot of trail riding it is inevitable that you are going to encounter dogs from time to time. I have so far never encountered an aggressive dog, some curious, and have had some want to harass my dogs that might be traveling with me, but never one aggressive to me or my horse. I've run into many that have never seen a horse before, and some seemed iffy at first, like the boxer that had just been let out of her house and came at us full speed, until I stopped my horse and firmly yelled 'stop', she slammed on the brakes about 2 feet from my horse, and seemed completely confused at that point (talking horse?), but she just sniffed at us after that. My horse never flinched.

That said, obviously this situation is different, with these dogs actually aggressive. If it was me (and I also live in Arkansas with no leash law, there may be one in town (not really sure on that), but not in the County), I would 'train' the dogs to go the other way when they saw me coming. I think a safe spray of some kind is a pretty good idea. When I have dogs trespassing and causing trouble on my land a bb gun works pretty well, and those that do come back, just hearing the gun cock sends them heading for the hills, but I don't know that I would be comfortable firing any kind of gun while walking down the road. What is happening is those dogs have decided the road is a part of their territory and you are trespassing on it, when they come around and you leave, they have, in their mind, successfully chased you off, so they get a little bolder each time. I'd bet just one or two times would be all it would take for them to figure out you (or the horses, depending on what they associate it with) bite, and they'd start to avoid you when they saw you coming.

If you are uncomfortable with that I would get the law involved, chances are they are not going to listen to you, so you will probably have to keep pestering them about it. But to start I would be getting a video showing how aggressive they are, talk to the sheriff, and if you don't get any results, take it higher! I would focus more on the potential danger they are to people, more so then the animals, I think you're more likely to get their attention.


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## whisperbaby22 (Jan 25, 2013)

I'm sorry, but some of these responses are naive. I live in So Cal. Leash laws are not enforced unless the officer sees the dog. So calling in complaints does no good. When we were being terrorized and having our pets killed, my neighbor went several times to animal control and nothing was done. Unless the officer sees the dogs off their own property, or in the act of killing our pets, nothing. It wasn't until the puppies came, and since we are only allowed 4 dogs per property, the dogs were taken.


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## BugZapper89 (Jun 30, 2014)

SouthernTrails said:


> Did I miss something? Did this dog attack someone or a Horse? The dog was simply running loose if I read correctly.
> 
> We don't even brutalized serial rapist murderers and yet brutalizing a dog is OK.... no words...:-(
> 
> ...



Yes, you missed something. Daughter was jogging her horse in hand up to the ring, so do a horse swap with her sister, said dog ran at her and bit the back of her leg ( looked like a jack crossed with ? ) kid yelped horse stomped. You dont mess with his kid


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## HagonNag (Jul 17, 2010)

Although we have leash laws, your area sounds a lot like my area in rural SC. Everyone minds their own business and you do NOT poke your nose into your neighbors affairs. (around here it used to be illegal stills...you could end up shot really easy!) That being said, there are children in the area that are at risk from these dogs. You and your horses are at risk. You suspect they're running a meth lab. It seems to me that you need to get together with the kids parents and approach the police about this danger. If rural ARK or MO is like SC, the sheriff is elected? 

This is a story waiting to happen. You and the parents need to document your concerns and document that you've approached the police regarding them. You need to approach the local drug enforcement agency and ask them to be investigated. Pitbulls are often used as security for meth houses. The police need to be made aware that you're documenting.... How about the local newspaper or TV? They LOVE stories about neighborhood problems that are being ignored by the police. You have to be careful about slander, but these entities will help with that. The sheriff is going to look BAD if anything does happen after all this attention....and he won't like that. You might find that the meth house gets raided, or the residents get hassled enough to make them move. All this is legal...just residents making their community safe for their children and their animals!


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

Just a cautionary note: If these loose dogs are untrained and unsocialized "pack mentality" pit bulls, any kind of attack (yelling, throwing something, riding whip, spray) will often increase their aggression response. Pits were bred to withstand pain and attack the source (hence baiting...) of that pain. 

If they are untrained, breeding and instinct will take over.


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

I'm dealing with something similar from some neighbors that just moved in.

My 85 year old grandmother, whom I live with to help care for, decided she wanted to get out and get some fresh air, so she walked to the end of the road where we have locking security mailboxes. I wasn't home at the time, out doing our shopping.
The new neighbors dog, looks like some kind of American bulldog/ Pit Bull cross came charging out of it's yard after her.
Luckily another neighbor was out and kept the dog away long enough for my grandmother to make it home safely, before having to practically break their own neck getting away from the dog.

This was the male, they have a female and she's had at least one litter of puppies that they sell to whomever has $50 on hand.

I now do not let my grandmother go out of the yard without me, and I always carry a gun and the dogs know it, so do the owners, they've all seen it, and they stay far away from me.


Before this happened I had another neighbor.

Right across the street from these new neighbors we had some that rented for a while. Their first night in the house they lit a bonfire and let their four very vicious dogs run free. 
They actually jumped our fence and chased my mother into the house. I came out gun in hand and yelled across the street, as I was not going out of the fence that they needed to get their dogs or they wouldn't have any dogs by morning and that I had called the police. They ignored me.

The police came and the owners ran inside and wouldn't open the door for the officers. As they were leaving the dogs charged and the police drew on them. The dogs backed off and the officers got in their car and left.

The next morning the renters called the police on me! The officer (whom I know from previous bad neighbor encounters) told them I was allowed to shoot the dogs if they came after me on the road or in my yard and to not call them out there for anything like that again. They eventually had the dogs taken by AC for not feeding them, the dogs tried to bite the ACO and were pts.

Never show fear, and don't back down if they do come after you. A cattle prod, a gun, whatever you need to feel and be safe is what's right for you.


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## Samson5261 (Jul 25, 2013)

Well I drove by the house today as I hadn't been down that direction for about a week and the older female has been hit by a car. It's really sad the owners haven't even bothered to move her body just leaving it there. :'( looks like its been there for at least a day. The other dog looked like he just didn't know what to do. He is younger probably no more than 1 and was the least aggressive of the two. It's sad that this dog died the way it did because of stupid people! I just hope her death wa quick and that she didn't linger.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

What I desire to say cannot be printed.


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## whisperbaby22 (Jan 25, 2013)

It is possible that the male is her puppy. The litter that actually got the dogs out of our neighborhood were sired by the only pup of the *****'s first litter.


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## Samson5261 (Jul 25, 2013)

whisperbaby22 said:


> It is possible that the male is her puppy. The litter that actually got the dogs out of our neighborhood were sired by the only pup of the *****'s first litter.


This is possible and wouldn't surprise me at all! I'm hoping that without the other dog he won't be as aggressive and that maybe if I bring some treats he might actually associate me and my horses with a good thing. Lord knows he could really use some food anyways!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

Yup, you may be surprised to find the less dominate dog may not be as aggressive now that the female is dead. 

Be careful about the treats though, I've seen dogs wag their tails and act happy when they smelt food, then try to take someone's hand off when they got close enough to grab the bit of food.
Maybe toss a treat down on the ground near you, but don't use your hand, this will let you gauge the aggression level. If the dog seems alright do this a few more times, working he dog up slowly to trusting you.

If you do get close enough though, be prepared to fight back, carry something with you, just in case the dog is still very aggressive.


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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

The treat idea might be worth a try. I agree with the poster that said don't feed out of your hand -- drop it or toss it to the dog (much safer). Also I would suggest speaking to the dog first then toss the treat -- saying the same thing each time followed with a treat toss and the dog will connect the dots on how your new relationship plays out. The downside to this, is the dog may decide to adopt you and follow you home:shock:


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## KsKatt (Jun 2, 2014)

This also eliminates the pack mentality, that is huge by itself. I feel bad for the female, perhaps now she has some peace.
Treats are a great idea! Slowly, but I'll bet it helps. I'm also wondering if he ends up following you home. Friendship and food, hard to beat that combination.:wink: Since the people don't pay him any attention and his only partner is gone, I bet he's lonely.


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## Samson5261 (Jul 25, 2013)

He may follow me back to my truck its happened once with a dog and I took her home with me. She now has a lovely home with a friend of mine. Honestly if he follows me back I may sneak back home! Lol mom won't be happy but he would have a better life for sure! I have actually worked with dogs that need special training before. We currently have one that we got from the pound that was deemed unadobtable because she was shy and displayed fear aggression. After a year she is pretty much over this with people and its better with dogs. I'm going to try the treat thing tomorrow when I go down and let everyone know how it goes!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Wow! This thread reminded me of my "crazy neighbors" thread. Different situation, the issue was their bees attacking us and our horses on our own property, but similar in ways to your dog problem.

What finally worked was getting the police involved. First time I called the officer, explained the situation, officer called neighbors and neighbors turned officer against me. Then had my landlord call the officer and explain, not sure what he said but whatever it was it worked because officer called neighbors back and told them that the next things coming would be fines and lawsuits if they didn't move those bees.

BTW people who remember the thread: bees were never moved back on their property. Our other neighbors also do not like these neighbors anymore, and not because we influenced them. Apparently these slightly deranged (imo) neighbors had accused our other neighbors kids of doing something. I don't have the details but they are not dealing with them either anymore. oh, and guess what else, no gunshots heard since that incident where they were "shooting at coyotes" while I was at the gate. I have to say, I'm glad we decided not to reconcile with them and live ignoring each other all this time. I don't really want to be neighborly with them, I'd rather just pretend they don't live next door. Anyway we are leaving in November so, then the landlord can live next to them (I feel kind of bad for him honestly haha).

Anyway I was just sharing what happened with us. We did have to get the police involved.

jimmyp-are you still following this thread? If so, I have a question for you. How on earth do you stop your dogs from killing other dogs while out on the trail? Voice, or leashed, or......?


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