# Integrating mare and stallion



## Arabian Girl (Sep 24, 2010)

Hi there, I wonder if you guys can give me some tips. I will be covering my mare this season and would really like to be able to allow her and my stallion to graze together. At the moment they graze in adjoining paddocks.

Will he still try and cover her if she is pregnant is the first question I would like to ask.

The second thing is, someone I know told me that I can't do this with just one mare and a stallion as even though she would be pregnant he would chase her to cover her till she drops and when the foal is born he will most likely try and kill the foal. Anyone have experience with this type of thing?

Both are Arabians - the stallion is spirited but not mean and the mare has a lovely temperament.

Any advice of suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.


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## twogeldings (Aug 11, 2008)

A young stallion is like any other young think with balls: The only thing on it's mind is sex, so he may very well mount your mare until she drops.

An older stallion you may not have problems with, but thats something I couldn't tell you. Every stud is different. 

He may or may not try to kill the foal. He may actually try to kill _you_ for going near his foal and mare. 

There is also the risk of the _mare trying to kill the stallion_ and vice versa. 

All in all, if you MUST breed, do it by hand or with AI. I would not recommend putting them together. It's cute in the wild but thats about the only place where it's cute.


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## ChevyPrincess (Aug 27, 2009)

It depends on the stallion. All the breeders I know, pasture breed. It is more natural. If the stallion is too young, he will chase the mare, nip at her heels, and so forth. Then, he is not ready to breed. 

When he is ready, the first time he mounts, he will probably try and mount her from the sides before he figures out where he is supposed to go. 

I have read some books, and they actually say that people who twitch a mare, hobble her, leave her helpless and then run the stallion on her are actually teaching the stallion to be a rapist. Stallions need dicsipline, and, no better teacher than horses. The mare will kick and fuss and can usually fend well for herself and then let the stallion breed when she is ready in a clam manner.


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## twogeldings (Aug 11, 2008)

ChevyPrincess said:


> It depends on the stallion. All the breeders I know, pasture breed. It is more natural. If the stallion is too young, he will chase the mare, nip at her heels, and so forth. Then, he is not ready to breed.
> 
> When he is ready, the first time he mounts, he will probably try and mount her from the sides before he figures out where he is supposed to go.
> 
> I have read some books, and they actually say that people who twitch a mare, hobble her, leave her helpless and then run the stallion on her are actually teaching the stallion to be a rapist. Stallions need dicsipline, and, no better teacher than horses. The mare will kick and fuss and can usually fend well for herself and then let the stallion breed when she is ready in a clam manner.


Oh my :shock: I witness a breeding between an experienced stallion and mare, the stud is around...16 now? Or was it 19....either way, very experienced stud with an excellent temperament. 
The procedure was thus, the mare was put at the hitching post with someone at her head. The lead rope was wrapped once or twice around the post, if I remember correctly, not tied. The stud was then _lead_ up to the mare and they where able to greet each other. Stud was then allowed to sniff the mare, followed by mounting and breeding. Mare was able to bring her head around to touch noses with the stallion. 
Afterwards, the stud dismounted and was was able to graze a bit while he rested and the mare was led away. 

This was all done quite calmly, no running or flying leaps involved :lol: Stud did wear a chain over his nose as a precaution, but both parties involved were very calm and mannered. 
I'd be afraid that a mare would give the stud a royal kick if pasture bred. Or that the stud would become overprotective. I've met some very nice stallions, and at the same time, some that needed to be gelded pronto just because of the attitude.


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## LusitanoLover (Oct 2, 2010)

ChevyPrincess said:


> It depends on the stallion. All the breeders I know, pasture breed. It is more natural. If the stallion is too young, he will chase the mare, nip at her heels, and so forth. Then, he is not ready to breed.
> 
> When he is ready, the first time he mounts, he will probably try and mount her from the sides before he figures out where he is supposed to go.


 The mounting from the side is hilarious to watch, you do need a good old mare for a youngster to practice on. The mare will look bored, the stallion will look *very* confused. :-D Most mares, even young ones, will not allow a stallion to harass them. Arabians are highly domesticated horses, they have lived *with* people for centuries, I would expect, like Lusos, most of the bad breeders, that is, the foal killers and the rapists, have been bred out.

The thing to do is just put them together for a day when you can watch. If, after the initial excitement, they settle down and graze together, they will be fine. If after 4 hours, they are still running around and getting very stressed, it is probably not a good idea. Most good stallions only cover a mare when she is season, so with a fertile mare, the stallion gets one go in exchange for a year of care and protection! :wink:

Here's a vid of my stallion running with four of my mares. My neighbours who can see the field from their living room, reported that he had "a busy couple of days" - then it stopped. So I hope they are in foal! 





His first season, he was just turned out with one mare, and not only did they get along fine, but she is still his best friend, they really like each other, and I have seen her put herself between him and another mare that was lashing out at him. This is him and her.


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

I don't have horses - but I have experiences with young stud goats. My buck broke out of his pen today, along with the other buck we're housing.

My wethers (equivalent to a gelding) tried their hardest to protect my young doe - and in the process - I had caught the rescue buck (who is wretched, evil, nasty, and he's a grade so no way in hell would I want him to breed my show doe..) while my nice buck (who's gentle, loving, and I've never in his year & 5 months of him living with me seen him be aggressive..) TORE UP both wethers. I had the nasty buck tied in the woods, and wrestled my other buck into a pen.. And his half brother, a wether, went with him. My poor poor wether got raped. From behind, the sides, everywhere. This went on for an hour. My buck has never bred before - I was scared to think about pasture breeding my doe! 

I'm going to do an assisted breeding to assure she caught - and I may leave her in with him.. As long as he's not humping the life out of her.

I think that would be the same as horses. I'm going to leave her in with my buck for a few months if he's gentle.

This only applies if you have first-time breeders of course. If your stallion is a gentleman, and experience, I don't think you'll have to seperate them until she's got 3 month til foaling.


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## LusitanoLover (Oct 2, 2010)

Actually, if you want to keep breeding your mare, you don't have to separate them at all. Mares foal much easier with company. They like to have another horse standing guard about 30 yards away. They prefer a mare, but a stallion will do. Even living with a stallion full time, a mare will not necessarily foal every year.

BTW, the stallion is far more likely than the mare to get injured. Stallions rarely show any aggression to mares, but mares have no such inhibitions, and if they don't want him around, and he persists, they will kick him to pieces.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Stallions are like any other animal with testosterone - they aren't technically "horny", they are triggered by the scent of the mare. They have no will or desire to have sex, they are driven by instinct to reproduce. Once a mare is settled and ceases coming in heat, a stallion will leave her alone. A young one may be confused, especially in domestication because of the unnatural things we teach them, but a few kicks from a ****y mare is all it takes to teach them.

There are obviously risks, but ironically, you are likely to have LESS injuries when pasture breeding because you are allowing the mare and stallion to behave naturally - the first time may be a bit hairy, but having a stallion who knows how to do both in hand AND pasture breeding is invaluable.

I read an article in an Arabian magazine a few years back about a VERY expensive champion Arab stud who's pasture bred - I don't remember exactly why, but it was what HE needed to get the job done. The mare owners wanting to breed were aware of how he was used, and there have been no reported injuries because the stallion is a seasoned professional now who knows EXACTLY when to get the heck out of the way.

People treat horses like priceless artifacts and it's ironic to me because the more we do so, the more danger we put them in. If the stallion is not being shown, he is perfectly capable of taking a couple kicks and being a little wiser. I'm pretty sure the instance of serious or deadly injury is far less then the act of giving birth itself - we turn our pets out every single day into herds that beat on them relentlessly. My filly is covered head to toe in scabs from various bites and kicks she receives from not wising up and being quicker on her feet!

I would integrate them exactly as you would any other two horses - if they already graze within eye sight, turn them loose together under close observation. It is extremely unlikely he's going to be crippled for life by her, and even less likely they'll try to kill each other at ANY point or even the foal. If you leave him with her the entire time, there is zero reason for him not to accept the foal. I would NOT take him out and put him back in though. He has to establish her as his herd to accept the foal.

Good luck!


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## msmaryy (Sep 20, 2010)

Now ya'll I wonder what these animals would think we look like as humans "breeding".. LOL!!!! They would surely think we looked very silly!! Hahaha... 

I had a stallion that I kept with a mare in foal and after the foal was born for several months and it was a great pleasure to see this "family" live together. Now I have to say that this stud was an exceptional creature with a heart of gold and the mare was also a very level headed well mannered animal. I agree with all above, it depends on the animals in question.

Good luck to you! I hope you are able to witness the wonderful things I was able to with my little family living side by side!! )))


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I have no experience breeding horses myself, but when I bought my last horse, she was turned out in a big field with a bunch of other mares/foals, and the stallion they were breeding them with. All seemed to live in harmony, including the stallion and foals. The stallion even ran up when we loaded the mare up and separated her from last years foal. He was good and did nothing threatening, but he tried to protect his mare and foal when they were upset. It made me feel kind of bad!

Anyway, they seemed to have a good quality of life living in a herd situation, they way horses were meant to.

I have heard, with wild horses, the stallion will kill another stallion's foals. But it would be kind of counter-productive to kill his own I would think!


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## AdrienneS (Aug 13, 2010)

I have a friend who has a herd. 3 mares, 2 geldings, a stallion and a new foal this year. They had the stallion for a few years now and none of the mares would let him near them to breed, but this year they woke up to a new foal lol. They all get along really good! When the foal was born one of the other mares (not the mom) bacame the baby sitter, she protected the foal from everyone. It was quite cute! Now the foal is more independent and interacts with everyone. The stallion actually gets bossed around by the mares and one of the geldings.


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## LusitanoLover (Oct 2, 2010)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> There are obviously risks, but ironically, you are likely to have LESS injuries when pasture breeding because you are allowing the mare and stallion to behave naturally


 That is certainly the case with mine. One of the mares was extremely aggressive towards him with in-hand covering and kicked him very badly before he could get out of the way - he was out of work for months because the injury was just behind the girth area. I decided she was reacting so strongly because she was frightened and felt she could not escape. I decided to risk running him with her this year - obviously I was prepared to whisk her out if the behaviour returned. But they have been fine. The marks on him in the vid, apart from the mud, are partly from mare kicks. Not life threatening! 

Interestingly, because Lusitanos are working cattle horses in Portugal, and also run with mares - even Novilheiro, who was a $100,000+ horse, ran with mares - you do not get marked down in the show ring for any "war wounds".



> I would NOT take him out and put him back in though. He has to establish her as his herd to accept the foal.


 Although I agree in principle, this is sometimes not possible. Uranio cannot winter out, he was very ill as a 2 yo and has no resilience in bad weather. He is losing weight already and he can't come in until the end of the month as we have building work in progress. What we have done is put windows in his stable all round so he can always see his herd. The strangest thing is that he knows exactly who "his" herd is. We have other properties all round, all with horses, and he shows no interest in any of the others, but goes mad if he can't work out where any of his herd are. You have to let him see them being loaded to go somewhere, and I also let him see the old friesian's gelding's body after he was PTS, as they were stable mates.


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

As a stallion owner I have NEVER had a problem turning a mare out with my boy. He knows when to do his job and if the mare so much as lays an ear back at him he backs off. If there is an already established mixed herd of mares and geldings and I let him pasture beside them for a little while I can also turn him into that herd with no worry of him hurting anybody, he immediately accepts his place and lets the mares be. My main concern is always a mare hurting him, not vice versa.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

LusitanoLover said:


> That is certainly the case with mine. One of the mares was extremely aggressive towards him with in-hand covering and kicked him very badly before he could get out of the way - he was out of work for months because the injury was just behind the girth area. I decided she was reacting so strongly because she was frightened and felt she could not escape. I decided to risk running him with her this year - obviously I was prepared to whisk her out if the behaviour returned. But they have been fine. The marks on him in the vid, apart from the mud, are partly from mare kicks. Not life threatening!
> 
> Interestingly, because Lusitanos are working cattle horses in Portugal, and also run with mares - even Novilheiro, who was a $100,000+ horse, ran with mares - you do not get marked down in the show ring for any "war wounds".
> 
> Although I agree in principle, this is sometimes not possible. Uranio cannot winter out, he was very ill as a 2 yo and has no resilience in bad weather. He is losing weight already and he can't come in until the end of the month as we have building work in progress. What we have done is put windows in his stable all round so he can always see his herd. The strangest thing is that he knows exactly who "his" herd is. We have other properties all round, all with horses, and he shows no interest in any of the others, but goes mad if he can't work out where any of his herd are. You have to let him see them being loaded to go somewhere, and I also let him see the old friesian's gelding's body after he was PTS, as they were stable mates.


That's very interesting! No, I definitely didn't mean you could never do it, just in certain circumstances such as turning a stallion out with a lone mare for the first time in his and her life, I wouldn't personally take the chance of removing him and then throwing him back in once the foal is born - horses screwed up by domestication can do some pretty weird things and I wouldn't want to risk it.

I could definitely see it being way less of an issue when you have a seasoned stallion who's accustomed to a certain routine.

Glad to hear you have so much success! It's kind of sad how much we live in the dark ages over here, treating horses like fragile glass. It always makes me happy to hear about other methods and how well it works when you simply let the horse BE a horse and act out his natural instincts as much as possible - it makes the entire experience of domestication much easier on them health wise!


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## LDW (Nov 20, 2010)

I really am enjoying this thread. Thank you. I also have a stallion and mare I would love to integrate. He was not raised in a herd and she is a young mare. Last year I hand covered and then tried to leave them together, however not having been taught by mares from young, my stallion couldn't understand the word no. He ended up being kicked from head to toe and I decided to separate them to prevent injury. They live very happily next to each other and have a very special bond and love for each other. This year I would love to try and integrate them as well. I am obviously nervous that the same thing will happen. He seems to calm down though when she is pregnant and not get all excited about her. What are your experiences? When a stallion knows that the mare is pregnant with his foal, will he respect her boundaries more? In that case I will leave them separate till I know she is pregnant and then try and integrate them? Any advice would be most welcome as I would love to see them grazing together happily.


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

LDW said:


> I really am enjoying this thread. Thank you. I also have a stallion and mare I would love to integrate. He was not raised in a herd and she is a young mare. Last year I hand covered and then tried to leave them together, however not having been taught by mares from young, my stallion couldn't understand the word no. He ended up being kicked from head to toe and I decided to separate them to prevent injury. They live very happily next to each other and have a very special bond and love for each other. This year I would love to try and integrate them as well. I am obviously nervous that the same thing will happen. He seems to calm down though when she is pregnant and not get all excited about her. What are your experiences? When a stallion knows that the mare is pregnant with his foal, will he respect her boundaries more? In that case I will leave them separate till I know she is pregnant and then try and integrate them? Any advice would be most welcome as I would love to see them grazing together happily.


My stallion was raised alone in his own paddock. Since I have owned him I have always had him with a mare. We first kept him with an infertile mare who was as good as gold in his training since she was not aggressive but would not deal with him being at all out of line. After a week in together he would follow her around like a lost puppy dog. She was old and had navicular and was the queen of that pasture lol.

We came in one day to find she had gone down and crushed all the nerves in her hip. She was half under the fence and as we could tell from the hoof prints in the mud he stood over her all night keeping the herd on the other side of the fence from coming near her. He was devastated after her loss and I finally moved him home.

Upon putting him in with my new mare I pastured them beside each other for one day and then turn them out. Within 10 minutes they were grazing beside each other with no issues. The following week she began to go into heat and he would talk to her or sniff her or make vain attempts to mount but she would quickly shut him down. He gave up even trying to mount her until the day she turned and backed right into him just flagging away lol.

They are pastured together 24/7 with no problems at all. She definetly is the "top dog" in the herd and her word is law, he doesn't challenge her in the slightest which is hilarious since her whole life she has been the low man and always beat up on. But if anything scares her she hides behind him as quickly as possible. They have bonded very well.

All you can do is try it. Turning her out with him when she is not in heat is the best idea since he won't be dealing with a new horse AND hormones. Stay close and watch and make sure to have someone on hand to help if things get ugly but all in all as long as neither are aggressive and they pretty well know each other there shouldn't be any problems.


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

ONce you have no shoes on anybody you will be fine. Mares and stallions are esigned to live togetrher its us who wont allow it.
IF you have ever witnessed a mare turning a stally down you will no longer have any reservations when they say no they mean it!
I would just be careful with feeding etc apart from that let them be


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