# Building a nice neck



## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

As long as it's strong enough to lift his head, he's ok.

I don't know why you'd want a thicker neck, it makes them heavy on the forehand, therefore rougher to ride. That's just my experience. If you really want to you can get some neck weights. They'll make it harder to lift his head
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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I am not against using something like that to build neck muscles. My gelding has almost no top neck muscles (Therefor no crest) and I rode him in a german martingale every day for awhile and he has started getting some muscle back.

But here's the thing, don't drag his nose to bite his chest. Just put him on the vertical, use your legs to drive that hind end up underneath him at the same time. As AC said above, it would suck to have him turn into a horse that just falls on his forehand.


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## Logibear24 (Nov 8, 2011)

Ok so I don't want him to top heavy  il keep that in mind. I just want a little bit more built up as I think it looks a bit odd right now. But hey maybe Il just leave him be and it will just be part of what makes him special. Thank you for the help.
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## lucille16 (Jan 25, 2012)

I wouldn't worry about it, his neck will develop with correct training, and working him through his hind to the bit. Also work him in different outlines, long and low for stretching and warm-up/warm-down, bringing it up a bit higher when doing you're proper work. I'd advise to avoid using gadgets for consistent work, they just promote a false outline and are really only designed to be used to encourage and help the horse understand what you want.
good luck


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## BaileyJo (Aug 23, 2011)

Logibear24 said:


> I read in a magazine that lunging with side reins for 20mins a day would help with this. Does any one have any suggestions or had any luck with this?


I have used side reins and they do help. I would not suggest using them everyday though. I would also suggest having someone experienced with side reins show you how to use them. They can be confusing for your horse in the beginning and you need to know how to properly adjust them. 

But I think what you might need is overall conditioning of the body, especially the topline, and not just the neck.


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## Moei (Jan 11, 2012)

my horse as a very thick neck, he is a small horse. he is not heavy on the forehand from what i can tell, i never knew a thick neck ment heavy on the forehand!!!


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

BaileyJo said:


> But I think what you might need is overall conditioning of the body, especially the topline, and not just the neck.


Highly agree. With a good top line the neck muscles will come.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

heavy neck = heavy on forehand.? I doubt it. The heavy neck doesn't cause that, but it might be a result of it.

The way your horse's neck is shaped will be in part due to his genetics, and in part due to how he is being ridden or has been in the past. IN short, how he "goes". It would be good if you can at sometime post a video of you riding him so we can see how he goes, and how you ride him. I mean no insult, but it may be that he is going with a lot of brace in his neck and resistance to the bit, which causes him to build up the muscles on the underside of the neck, thus the muscles on the top part of the neck are used less, and they atrophy. 

You want to have him moving in a way that he is soft on the bit, no brace against it and no brace against your hand, either. He shoudln't be doint the "giraffe" trot, either.

To change these things you have to start asking him to both lower the neck but eventually, he needs to actually "raise" the lowest part of the neck, where the neck goes between the shoulder blades. If he giraffes, then the "S" that is his neck will bulge out more at the bottom, have a long , upright center of the "S" and then a either no uppper curve, or a short severely round one, like a horse that tucks behind the bit.

You want him to reach down and forward , so called "long and low". This is not like riding him on the buckle (without contact). YOu will have contact, but it will be a soft, following contact , combined with supportive drive from behind and YOU being upright and very "allowing" with your body, so that the movement flows vigourously forward.

The shape of the horse's neck will look something like the way they arch and "telescope" out their necks when meeting a strange , new horse and being a bit excited about it.

here are some images of the different way a horse bends/arches his neck. YOu can can do this a bit lower than shown in the diagrams.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

^ It's almost scary how much the "giraffe" horse on that first picture looks like my older gelding. It was so hard to get any muscles back....But sure enough we did, just in time for the little brat to be retired. Figures. lol


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Can you explain how you did that? Do you have before and after shots?


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Don't have an after....I will see about cleaning him up and pulling him out of the back pasture next week though. Basically what we did is rode him in a german martingale for awhile and put his head and neck correctly (Still had him driving from behind....He was always pretty good about not falling on his forehand and staying pretty balanced.) And towards the end we just used the martingale less and less but kept him rounded and on the vertical at all times.

Here's a picture of him the first day or two after we brought him home (He was sort of a rescue you could say o.o I had forgotten how bad he actually looked but you can see how little neck he had to begin with, and then by my complete fault I just let him go around wherever he wanted with no frame whatsoever and his head in the air and he just got a lot of oversized lower neck muscles.....)


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

AC - thick neck = heavy on the forehand depending on where the neck is thick. If the neck is full of under muscle, so that the underside of the neck is solid, wide and bulky, with a thin crest... then yes, this is indicative that the horse is travelling on the forehand and balancing with its neck.

On the other side - how many Grand Prix dressage horses or Iberian horses do you see with a skinny pencil neck? The Andalusians and Lippizaners in the Spanish Riding School for example, they are a product of the most extreme degree of collection that a horse can attain, and they're necks are VERY thick.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

As an owner of a horse that used to have a RIDICULOUS upside down neck, lunging helped me a great deal, but also 'correct' riding.

Lunging is great, but riding you can feel when the horse is tiring and allow for some give and a break/rest which you can't, imo, achieve on a lunge as you don't have the same contact.

I would consider riding first, not lunging, to attain the correct 'feel' and contact with the horse. Your horse doesn't need to automatically come on to the contact with a rounded neck, but some feel to get him using his neck will start helping you achieve muscle work. If he becomes heavy in your hands, walk for a round or two so he doesn't learn to pull the reins out of your hands and you can then give him a reward in having a break.

It'll take time, 7 months down the line of constant ride/lunge work with my girl and she's got what looks like a little crest forming but she still has too much muscle under her neck.

I also agree with Kayty, a muscled neck does not mean heavy forehand. Incorrect riding makes a horse heavy on the fore. 

It takes time, patience and good work. Once you've started with the riding work to build the muscles up, I would begin with lunge work but not 20mins either side to start with, it'll be too much. I'd warm him up looser, but so he stretches down and not running like a girrafe, and then shorten for five minutes either side for 5 sessions, then build it up 5 minutes every 5-10 sessions. You don't want to sour him! Good luck


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## Logibear24 (Nov 8, 2011)

Ok thank you all for the help and very helpful comments. I have only had him about 3 months now and we were just starting some lessons together before he went on his "vacation". Before that we were only trail riding and doing basic ring work.

Also starte him on a solid diet to when I got him which has helped alot with his top line but did not seem to affect his neck at all. I will be asking my trainer when we start work again to help me get a neck on him  
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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

I'll try and dig some pictures of Duffy out for you to see the difference 

Nice and slow is the game to play though. Good luck!


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

I always swore that Appy G must be part Saddlebred or something when I first got him, his head was always WAY up, and he had a beautifully developed underside to his neck










Through first of all getting him to relax and travel with his head down, lots of trail miles with only having contact to massage his head down, then releasing, he eventually got to going long and low and looked like this










Then we started working with a trainer, and eventually on his dressage training, so working in contact, lots of lunging in side reins, literally a couple of lessons with draw reins (jury is still out on that one), lunging him up and down the drainage ditch on the road side, we eventually got to this


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Before: http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...479015359657_659044656_10734808_1126182_n.jpg
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...469134914657_659044656_10647670_6329074_n.jpg
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...469141289657_659044656_10647769_6631360_n.jpg

After:
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...45991125_1331146027_33032089_1429386627_n.jpg
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...50138439_1331146027_33233333_1608147018_n.jpg
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...41753336_1331146027_33164367_2004773096_n.jpg
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...75516750_1331146027_33096957_1659101552_n.jpg
(ignore my terrible 2-point)

Just takes correct riding and helping the horse use its back


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

Kayty said:


> AC - thick neck = heavy on the forehand depending on where the neck is thick. If the neck is full of under muscle, so that the underside of the neck is solid, wide and bulky, with a thin crest... then yes, this is indicative that the horse is travelling on the forehand and balancing with its neck.
> 
> On the other side - how many Grand Prix dressage horses or Iberian horses do you see with a skinny pencil neck? The Andalusians and Lippizaners in the Spanish Riding School for example, they are a product of the most extreme degree of collection that a horse can attain, and they're necks are VERY thick.


Yes I believe you're precisely right. 

But I don't think we're talking about a fancy dressage horse here. That's a completely different critter. 

And I don't think Logibear is capable of attaining that level of collection. Neither am I

Of the thick-necked horses I've rode (just common everyday horse like I believe we're talking about), mostly they hit the ground really hard in front when allowed to go in their own relaxed frame.


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

BTW I was kidding about the whole "neck weights" idea. Just wanted to see what kind of responses it would get. But I wouldn't doubt there is such a thing.


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## Moei (Jan 11, 2012)

how long does it take to build a good topline and muscles on the top of the neck? my horse is starting to build muscle on the top of his neck but the bottom still looks really thick when he lifts his head high!


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

I'd say at least 5 months. In a year the under neck muscle will diminish so long as the horse carries themselves correctly and the rider rides correctly.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

OP...someone said something about correct riding helps tremendously, and I agree. Correct riding will help develop the WHOLE topline (including the top of the neck) and diminish a overdeveloped muscle on the BOTTOM of the neck. BUT, you also have to take into account the horse's conformation, where the neck ties into the withers and where it ties into the chest.

Some people do use side reins....but the best way is the correct riding from the hind end, through the back into your hands.


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## Moei (Jan 11, 2012)

what is considered "correct riding?"


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Moei said:


> what is considered "correct riding?"



Using your leg to ask the horse to tuck their tummy and use their back instead of being a hollow banana. When they use their back, and they have enough rein to accomplish that (long enough or short enough depending) that's the rider's job. If you don't encourage the horse to stretch and use their back properly, then the horse won't do it. They'll carry themselves like a giraffe or hollow or stiff is whatnot. 

If you ride English (I ride English) you need to push the horse forward with a long stretching down leg, you need to keep your hands upright, thumbs on top with giving elbows to help the horse release the jaw and soften and stretch. If you don't do that, your horse MAY carry themselves correctly but chances are they won't.

You being stiff will create blocks or tension that will not help the horse carry themselves. You riding with too much hand and not enough leg will not help the horse carry themselves. You using too much hand and not enough hand will not help them to carry themselves, but they might be using their hind end. 

Your position affects where they are. Either working on their hind into the bridle or plowing on the forehand (the front legs, chest, neck.)


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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

Using side reins is a great way to develop a horse's topline and build muscle through the neck and hindquarters. It is VERY important, however to use them correctly. Here are some diagrams:


























As for equipment:


























I'd recommend working with a qualified trainer and approaching this very carefully.

You want the horse to push from behind and engage his back... When you're lunging and you see him on the forehand, swing the lunge whip at his hindquarters to encourage him to move forward and gain impulsion.

 Good luck!


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## BaileyJo (Aug 23, 2011)

It will take a while. I would say at least 5 months, maybe longer. All of a sudden you will begin to notice it and your horse will begin to carry itself differently too. 

I also agree that correct riding works too. Not only do you improve your horse's topline, you improve yourself as well!


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

Very interesting and good descriptions
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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

AC in all honesty I'm never going to hit that level of collection either, but as I stated, if a horse is being ridden correctly from behind, a bigger neck shouldn't cause the horse to fall on the front. 

We have a QH stallion with a hugeeee crested neck at our place, beginner gets on, and he's pootling about, heavy on the fore, but thats incorrect riding, not a huge neck, more advanced rider gets on and its like he's sitting on his butt ;D

I didn't notice about the neck weight ahahaha I suppose you could? 

Lunge descriptions very clear and helpful. However, for green horses I prefer to use a bungee so they're not fixed, and then move on to 'Dreieck zugel' and I can't for the life of me think what they are in English apart from that translates in to triangle reins :shock: You see them a lot when green riders ride school horses... but basically it can allow for more movement and not so much fixing, and better long and low.

And I'm a cheap skate xD Duffy is on the verticle when I lunge, and very well too, so I just use my reins, I cant be bothered with faffing haha!


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

AC - the horse doesn't need to be a grand prix horse, that was merely an example. Any horse ridden using its quarters rather than dragging itself around on its head is perfectly able to build up topline and allow under muscling to be gradually decreased - still creating a thick neck, but thick in the right places.


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## Moei (Jan 11, 2012)

i ride western not english so around my barn none of this stuff is mentioned, i would like to get my horse off the forehand and build a better topline though. One trainer that i have (she is the best trainer ever) could probaly help me with this she rides english and western, she did tell me though that if you look at a horses back and they have even slight dips to the side near their spine that means that they are lacking muscle in that area she also mentioned the neck thing, my horse has a very musclular back (i guess thats what you would call it) but his neck it thick on the bottom aposed to that arch they are susposed to have, i do feel a slight ridge but it is little and still building!


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

> they have even slight dips to the side near their spine


That also can be a warning sign of unfitting saddle.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Well the first step to getting them off the forehand is to add more impulsion and push them into their bridle, so since you ride Western, obviously it's not going to be direct rein contact, but you can still be "on the bit" at a nice long rein so it's possible to achieve. 

I'm just unsure of the exact directions since I ride English myself. I'm sure that once you start adding more impulsion, however, your horse will start using its hind more so than the front and learn to carry himself properly without having to go out of your way and teach him things.

And by impulsion I mean energy, not speed. Think about a jog.. the steps can't get bigger but there has to be some UMPH to keep that jog going.


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## Logibear24 (Nov 8, 2011)

> Yes I believe you're precisely right.
> 
> But I don't think we're talking about a fancy dressage horse here. That's a completely different critter.
> 
> ...


You are very right!! Haha he isnt a fancy dressage horse by any means, just my trail riding buddy and we will hopefuly be doing some fun shows in the future. I just dont like the skinny neck look because it ages him and makes him look like he is 20 :s He also has high withers so that combined with the skinny neck just makes him look odd. 

The pictures are really helpful cause at least now I know im not alone . Thank you every one for your input. Any more information or comments would be great  il try to get a picture of him to share as well.


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