# Please help! I'm burned out with a high maintenance mare.



## Winters Edge (Jan 2, 2020)

I've owned my 18 year old mare for 7 years. She is getting more and more spooky the older she gets and I don't feel safe riding. Vet sees her every 3 to 4 months and she's in good health except for a mild hind suspensory injury last year that we are still rehabbing under saddle. Prior to the injury we were doing 3rd level dressage. She is a huge animal and only my trainer and I can ride her because she is difficult under saddle. 

She LOOKS for things to spook at and I can't relax for even a second while on her back. I'm tired of being scared to ride and I'm so so tired of putting in so much effort and money in. It sounds so selfish but I'm burned out emotionally and financially.

She is not a candidate for retirement because of daily care needed and behavior preventing her from living in a retirement situation. 

I'm just tired... and can't see a clear way forward with my girl. I don't know what I'm asking for here, maybe just some advice on how to move forward or other's similar experiences.


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## Indy2021 (Feb 3, 2021)

I had a mare very similar. I raised her and she was very hot and high maintenance. Only I could really ride her. She was so bold and confident...then suddenly around her 16th year she started to spook and refuse to go down certain trails she had in the past so nimbly and eagerly trotted down. She would wheel and spook and try to bolt. I wondered if it was her bit, her eyes, her teeth, her legs. I kept her for two more years, but she became more and more weird. I still rode her, but I would only do so in a group where she relied on other horses to boost her confidence or whatever it was that was bothering her. 
I finally sold her to a breeding farm where she had a few colts apparently and did very well in that environment -they even started riding her in arenas...apparently she did well there. It was so sad because she was such a fun and confident horse for me. I loved how keen she was; and not timid, then she became this tense creature...anyway, my recommendation is to sell her if possible to someone with a clear idea of what she is. Perhaps your mare will do well in some other scenario.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

1. Most important have her eyes been checked? Often times progressive eye issues contribute to progressive spookiness.

2. I haven’t had mares for 20+ years but perhaps he has internal issues and the discomfort is causing her to over react.

3. People hate to hear this but diet can often be a contributing factor to spookiness. Just because a diet worked last year does nOt mean it is the best thing this year.

4. You’re in Canada, so may not have the option to order magnesium *malate.* I don’t know how the borders are due to Covid19. Malate absorbs into the system much better than magnesium oxide. It is great for calming anxious horses, provided there aren’t any contributing issues such as poor eyesight.









Performance Equine Nutrition | Well-Being for Performance Horses


Where nutrition meets training: Discover symptoms of magnesium deficiency in horses and shop supplements to treat equine magnesium deficiency.




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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

If she's capable of doing third-level dressage, could you sell her once she's rehabbed?


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## Indy2021 (Feb 3, 2021)

Indy2021 said:


> I had a mare very similar. I raised her and she was very hot and high maintenance. Only I could really ride her. She was so bold and confident...then suddenly around her 16th year she started to spook and refuse to go down certain trails she had in the past so nimbly and eagerly trotted down. She would wheel and spook and try to bolt. I wondered if it was her bit, her eyes, her teeth, her legs. I kept her for two more years, but she became more and more weird. I still rode her, but I would only do so in a group where she relied on other horses to boost her confidence or whatever it was that was bothering her.
> I finally sold her to a breeding farm where she had a few colts apparently and did very well in that environment -they even started riding her in arenas...apparently she did well there. It was so sad because she was such a fun and confident horse for me. I loved how keen she was; and not timid, then she became this tense creature...anyway, my recommendation is to sell her if possible to someone with a clear idea of what she is. Perhaps your mare will do well in some other scenario.


I really feel for you! It is not fun riding at all with that issue; and dangerous.


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## Winters Edge (Jan 2, 2020)

I don't think selling is an option, she will likely not come back to being completely sound. Vet said the suspensory problem is chronic due to conformation and she will not do that level of work again...

I've been giving her ACE to ride but I can't keep her on it indefinitely for each ride.


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

It sounds like you have four options. Keep working with her and see if you can resolve the issue, or retire her, or rehome her (with full disclosure), or euthanize her. A horse you don't enjoy riding and that you consider unsafe (especially a huge one) can be quite a liability, and if you opted for options B, C, or D, I could certainly see why. Especially with chronic soundness issues.


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## Kailee TheCool (Feb 1, 2021)

Winters Edge said:


> I've owned my 18 year old mare for 7 years. She is getting more and more spooky the older she gets and I don't feel safe riding. Vet sees her every 3 to 4 months and she's in good health except for a mild hind suspensory injury last year that we are still rehabbing under saddle. Prior to the injury we were doing 3rd level dressage. She is a huge animal and only my trainer and I can ride her because she is difficult under saddle.
> 
> She LOOKS for things to spook at and I can't relax for even a second while on her back. I'm tired of being scared to ride and I'm so so tired of putting in so much effort and money in. It sounds so selfish but I'm burned out emotionally and financially.
> 
> ...


You could breed her? Maybe if you don't want to give her up then you should try re-training her. You use a normal riding schedule, but also, for thirty minutes to an hour a day, re-train her. If you did this I would really focus on just desensitizing her. Maybe just desensitize?


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Kailee TheCool said:


> You could breed her? Maybe if you don't want to give her up then you should try re-training her. You use a normal riding schedule, but also, for thirty minutes to an hour a day, re-train her. If you did this I would really focus on just desensitizing her. Maybe just desensitize?


If a horse has injured themselves because of poor conformation, I would hope their owner would not consider breeding them. You don't want to pass that on.


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## Kailee TheCool (Feb 1, 2021)

ACinATX said:


> If a horse has injured themselves because of poor conformation, I would hope their owner would not consider breeding them. You don't want to pass that on.


Yeah... but generally hind suspensory injuries come from landing hard after a jump, or when going fast. I doubt it would be from bad conformation, otherwise she wouldn't be a dressage horse.


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## Winters Edge (Jan 2, 2020)

Kailee TheCool said:


> Yeah... but generally hind suspensory injuries come from landing hard after a jump, or when going fast. I doubt it would be from bad conformation, otherwise she wouldn't be a dressage horse.


She injured herself during a big spook and bolt 6 months ago. Looking back she has had some periods of being slightly off in the same hind leg but could not be diagnosed by the vet. Lameness vet said she would not come sound without surgery for more than walk/trot. Now I have no way to get her energy down because she can't be lunged...

I'm leaning towards PTS but I feel a tremendous amount of guilt even considering it. She is my love and nickers every time she sees me.


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## Winters Edge (Jan 2, 2020)

Kailee TheCool said:


> Yeah... but generally hind suspensory injuries come from landing hard after a jump, or when going fast. I doubt it would be from bad conformation, otherwise she wouldn't be a dressage horse.


Forgot to mention that I would not breed her. She has a long back and straight hind legs. It is only by her work ethic that we have reached 3rd level dressage.


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

Winters Edge said:


> I'm leaning towards PTS but I feel a tremendous amount of guilt even considering it. She is my love and nickers every time she sees me.


If it's any consolation, I'm fairly confident that I would PTS in your position, too. But I'm not in your position. If you could find affordable retirement board where she could be your (unridden) friend, maybe? But I know that I, for one, could never afford more than one horse, so if PTS is the option that lets you keep riding, it may the best in the situation.


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## Indy2021 (Feb 3, 2021)

If you can't find someone to take her off your hands - I understand that you said she has too many needs and is not a candidate for retirement, I have seen horses like that.. Don't feel guilty, you gave her a good home for many years. You have to look after yourself first, and foremost. It is not worth the possible danger to both your mental and physical health.


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

She said she loves the horse and she winnies when she sees her. Seems like you are sort of stuck with the mare. Thats the way life is sometimes.


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## charrorider (Sep 23, 2012)

My late Annie was like that. I ride wooded trails that always had something to spook Annie, several times on each ride. It was a stump or a rock she didn't see until the last second. It could be something moving, something as small as a lizard or a butterfly. Annie was who she was. I lived with it. I doubt your mare is going to change. But you can help her. You say you "can't relax for even a second while on her back." I can guarantee you that is making your situation much worse. It will be much better if you help her relax. I always rode Annie with a loose rein. I never pulled on the reins, tighten my legs, or got mad at her when she spooked. I realize that much of that depends on how good a balance you have. But maybe that is something to work on. 
One time, after Annie passed away, I was talking to the lady whom I bought Annie from. This lady is a lifetime cowgirl. She told me she sold Annie because she was tired of being dumped by Annie during one of her spooks and having to walk home.


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## Phantomcolt18 (Sep 25, 2007)

Have her hormones been checked at all? A friend's mare gradually kept getting spookier and more temperamental and they found out she had a cyst growing on her ovary and her hormones were going insane. The cyst was removed and she went back to her normal chill self. 

Also, eyes! I have two horses that are both losing their eyesight for different reasons. My appy i never knew because he stayed the same mentality wise. My QH on the other hand, normally a steady eddy, started spooking out of nowhere, almost for no reason and he "looks" for reasons to spook on his left side (which happens to be his worse side) I would definitely have a thorough eye exam done the next time the vet is out; I'm talking the one where they put the drops in and REALLY look. If anything you'd rule that out completely.


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

AragoASB said:


> She said she loves the horse and she winnies when she sees her. Seems like you are sort of stuck with the mare. Thats the way life is sometimes.


That's easy to say but not everyone has the means to continue to pay for a horse that they can't ride. It's not like owning a cat or a dog. Maybe it's harsh, but a horse is better off being put down than being rehomed to a bad situation. And not everyone can afford the financial drain of a horse that can't be ridden or part boarded out. 

I took over ownership of my horse on because her owner wanted to downsize, and I love this horse and didn't want to see her go anywhere else. But I can afford to own her mainly because she CAN be ridden, and I have a part boarder to pay half of her expenses. 

Board is hard to come by and very expensive where I live. My horse's previous owner gave her to me with full disclosure on my part that I might not be able to give her a long retirement after she becomes unrideable, and we were both in agreement about that. It does not mean that I don't love this horse and that I don't ensure she has the absolute best care. And I sincerely hope this horse still loves me and is happy to see me when I decide to put her down, whether it's in a year or ten years. 

I would rather euthanize a horse who is still happy and comfortable than one who is miserable and in pain. I have this attitude because I grew up with a vet for a father and I know how peacefully pets pass when it's done "too soon" vs "too late." Horses live in the moment. 

As long as we make their moments as happy and healthy as we can, while they're with us, then a quick and quiet end at a time of our choosing is not cruel.

I do hope that OP can find a happy resolution, but implying that she's giving up on the horse if she decides to put her to sleep is extremely unfair.


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

Yes. This is what is not great about being a large animal. Not convenient or no longer profitable? Kill them, send them to slaughter. Not keep animal in pain of course. But have to have an animal put down ( killed) because it is no longer convenient or affordable ?.. well... it is a fact of life but it sucketh.

I had the greatest horse of my life live to be 40 and fell dead from sudden cardiac issues. Granted, she was not suffering, she was riddable at a walk but I did not throw her away like a paper cup. I worked to pay for her support and feed. It was a blessing to be able to to do this. I keep her bones in a box to be buried with.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

What is her living environment? Is she stabled or does she live out, like a horse, with other horses? 

What is her diet? Have you ever done a diet analysis to see what nutrients she may be lacking/imbalanced in? As Walkin said, diet/nutrition can have big effects. 

What is it about a 'retirement environment' that you think she wouldn't cope with?


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

AragoASB said:


> Yes. This is what is not great about being a large animal. Not convenient or no longer profitable? Kill them, send them to slaughter. Not keep animal in pain of course. But have to have an animal put down ( killed) because it is no longer convenient or affordable ?.. well... it is a fact of life but it sucketh.
> 
> I had the greatest horse of my life live to be 40 and fell dead from sudden cardiac issues. Granted, she was not suffering, she was riddable at a walk but I did not throw her away like a paper cup. I worked to pay for her support and feed. It was a blessing to be able to to do this. I keep her bones in a box to be buried with.


You can have your opinions on the matter, but saying that an extremely difficult but thoroughly thought-through decision to euthanize a beloved horse (very different from sending one to slaughter!!) is "throwing them away like a paper cup" is dismissive, insulting, and not helpful. You don't know what people are dealing with. It's nice that you were able to give that horse such a long life. Not everyone can do that.

Anyhow. Going to stop derailing things. Sorry OP.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

SteadyOn said:


> That's easy to say but not everyone has the means to continue to pay for a horse that they can't ride. It's not like owning a cat or a dog. Maybe it's harsh, but a horse is better off being put down than being rehomed to a bad situation. And not everyone can afford the financial drain of a horse that can't be ridden


Of course there are exceptions to any 'rule' but if you can afford to keep a horse & ride it, you can afford to keep a horse and _not _ride it. It's not as if, for the vast majority at least these days, that they _have_ to ride - mostly it's just a hobby, a sport for people which _costs more money_, so IMO that's not a valid argument. 

As said tho, not saying it's always the case or there aren't other valid reasons...


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I think you need to bring a different vet in. If this behavior was a sudden change then there is something going on. Even if it's a high energy thing from being re-habbed for an injury she has something going on. Horses don't change their personality for no reason.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

this is kind of way out there, but would it help to put ear muffs inside her ears ,and , well, blinkers onn the bridle? to lessen spook stimulus?


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## mslady254 (May 21, 2013)

I also need clarification on what you mean by "She is not a candidate for retirement because of daily care needed and behavior preventing her from living in a retirement situation." Do you mean you can't afford to board her at a retirement boarding barn ? Do you keep her at your own place now ?


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## DanteDressageNerd (Mar 12, 2015)

Winters Edge said:


> I've owned my 18 year old mare for 7 years. She is getting more and more spooky the older she gets and I don't feel safe riding. Vet sees her every 3 to 4 months and she's in good health except for a mild hind suspensory injury last year that we are still rehabbing under saddle. Prior to the injury we were doing 3rd level dressage. She is a huge animal and only my trainer and I can ride her because she is difficult under saddle.
> 
> She LOOKS for things to spook at and I can't relax for even a second while on her back. I'm tired of being scared to ride and I'm so so tired of putting in so much effort and money in. It sounds so selfish but I'm burned out emotionally and financially.
> 
> ...



I agree with getting her eyes checked, especially if her spookiness has increased. As well as a magnesium supplement. 

I also understand about not having a horse that can "retire." Mine needs a job or his behavior escalates to dangerous. I get it.

Have you considered an osteopath and biomechanics specialist to re-evaluating her? I've found osteopaths able to identify problems the vets (Even world class ones), chiropractors, massage therapists, etc miss.

I dont think you are being selfish, I think you are being realistic and practical. However can you address the fear issue within yourself and decided how you can address the spookiness, so you don't live in fear? Has your trainer walked you through strategies for riding her, to keep her focus and keep her attention? It isnt 100% perfect but it can help a lot. 

For example if I ride something very spooky, I make sure they are actually on my aids and keep their focus. I pay attention to where their attention is and bring them back to me. So I'll ride a lot of shoulder in or fore if she is in rehab or just use my leg to bend the ribs and keep their attention. With a nervous, spooky horse it is always about keeping their attention and them on the aids. I also find ones who are spooky if they are not forward enough, the reasoning behind the behavior varies from horse to horse. I am not in the situation, so I cannot say the reason. That is for you and your trainer to evaluate but if you can address that and feel capable riding her through those moments. I think you'd be less frustrated and feel safe on her.

I'm usually the "fix it because it is broken" rider because I problem solve and identify what is going on in the horse's processing and what isn't understood and try to bridge that gap between horse and rider and make the understanding and expectation clear to the horse, so they can be confident and trust the rider/handler. I sometimes feel like a mechanic because if someone's horse no longer works like they want it too, they go oh I know a rider who can fix it. As a rider it is a good and bad thing but I'll say from what I see in horses that are not easy the future isn't so bright. Most people arent interested in trying to ride something that doesnt respond appropriately or who tests. 

I have a very high maintenance horse who isnt sellable, most professionals cannot ride him and I'm around world class riders. Even when they've ridden him have said he's the most powerful horse theyve ever sat on. It is a lot of responsibility and sometimes it is too much and I feel bad when I dont have the energy or time to give him that he needs but that's how it goes sometimes. Riding him takes everything I have physically and mentally, sometimes after riding him I have deep pain that shoots down to my knee caps from my sciatic nerve but he is my baby and apparently I like to struggle _shrugs_ I also give him a full body massage two to three times a week and that helps a lot. I also give him collagen for the joints and tendons/ligaments. Collagen is really helpful for horse's with scar tissue.

Basically I keep my horse because he is good for my mental health, I need him as much as he needs me. Vets had recommended I put him down because he is dangerous and can be unpredictable. He's hospitalized me twice both times unpreventable and out of the blue but I still love him. I kept him because so many people have given up on me in my life for being different or having problems and I didnt think his life should end just because he's different and has problems. But that was a choice I made, I do NOT judge others if they decide it isnt for them. Dont let anyone guilt you into making a decision that isnt right for you. It has to be something you choose or you will view it as a burden.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I think it's important for you to really evaluate the horse and yourself, very logically and without emotion.

You need to decide what your personal ethics dictate about what to do with your horse.

I'd consider things such as:
How much has the horse changed? Was she always spooky at times? What percentage more spooky is she now? Was it tolerable to you at some point and if so, how much would she need to change to have you feel OK again?

I'd be very honest. Does any of this have to do with a loss of confidence on your part?
After an injury there can be a critical time period with a hot horse. It is when you still need to be careful and not work them hard, but they are feeling good and have excess energy. It can be tricky to get to the other side.

If your concerns are about having a horse that will not go back to the potential you had hoped for, be honest with yourself. It is possible your trainer or someone may know of someone who is skilled enough to lease her and work at a lower level. I think it is best to just be honest about your motivations so you can make a logical decision.

It is OK to grieve losing a dream you had with a horse. It's also OK to be intimidated by a horse that is too energetic after an injury.

Just be sure you aren't selling yourself or your horse short because of temporary issues or emotions. Taking the time to think it through will mean you will know it was the right decision. What that is will be very personal.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

What are her living conditions like? Has she been tested for Lyme? Has she had a blood panel/CBC done? Bloodwork can tell a lot.

Her diet is also something to consider. I wouldn't ride her until further notice. There's usually a reason why a horse is spooky like that. Even if you end up not keeping her, make sure you've checked all the boxes off first...because chances are, there's a reason why she's acting this way.


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

I


SteadyOn said:


> You can have your opinions on the matter, but saying that an extremely difficult but thoroughly thought-through decision to euthanize a beloved horse (very different from sending one to slaughter!!) is "throwing them away like a paper cup" is dismissive, insulting, and not helpful. You don't know what people are dealing with. It's nice that you were able to give that horse such a long life. Not everyone can do that.
> 
> Anyhow. Going to stop derailing things. Sorry OP.


This is not to derail but to explain 'kill, sent to slaughter". I was refering to cattle being sent to slaughter. I have a milk cow that I love very much. She only has 2 teats that work and is getting old, she is 10 but I still feed and care for her. At commercial dairys perfectly good cows are sent for slaughter at 4 or 5 when they are still profitable but no longer AS profitable. Horses are usually euthanized, PTS, usually at home. These are nicer words meaning they are killed. Some are sent to slaughter in Mexico or Canada, where they are killed. There is nothing wrong, in fact it is the right thing to do, to put down a horse that can no longer be ridden and is in constant pain. Maybe this horse can go live in a rescue or retirement home.


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## Elizabethian (Feb 3, 2021)

I feel your pain. My mare has pssm and needs to be kept in regular 5 day a week work or she will become symptomatic. Which means I’m going to the barn when I’m sick, when I’m tired, when I’m hurt, when I mentally just don’t want to. It’s exhausting. Now she has lymphoma that we are managing on top of managing the pssm. I love her dearly and she’s never going anywhere, but oof. So much for my low maintenance draft cross.


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## HnA Tack (Mar 15, 2013)

Winters Edge said:


> I've owned my 18 year old mare for 7 years. She is getting more and more spooky the older she gets and I don't feel safe riding. Vet sees her every 3 to 4 months and she's in good health except for a mild hind suspensory injury last year that we are still rehabbing under saddle. Prior to the injury we were doing 3rd level dressage. She is a huge animal and only my trainer and I can ride her because she is difficult under saddle.
> 
> She LOOKS for things to spook at and I can't relax for even a second while on her back. I'm tired of being scared to ride and I'm so so tired of putting in so much effort and money in. It sounds so selfish but I'm burned out emotionally and financially.
> 
> ...


Have you looked into PSSM2? It is a later onset in life, and a progressive muscle myopathy. Now - most vets are not utd on the information since it is constantly changing these days & think the only "real" symptom for PSSM is tying up. That is not so - there can be so many different ones, & not all have the same symptoms. Also, most vets will push a muscle biopsy but unless you have had a tie up recently, that is more than likely going to come back as negative. There is a company doing dna testing but has not been "published" yet due to they are still finding variants under the "cover" of PSSM2. The Univ of MN is currently doing a major research for all of this involving PSSM2, the variants, the dna testing, etc but it will be some time before we see results due to the major delays from Covid's interruptions. Anyway, my one mare went from a great ride one year to a gradual nightmare the next. She started spooking & bolting; bucking HARD; she became more & more difficult for the farrier; it became more & more difficult for her to hold a canter, especially with any kind of collection (her canter started looking like a "bunny hop".) She eventually started losing muscle mass too. NO one could figure it out. She was painful. Way too many people told me to "beat her butt", or she had my number. A trainer friend that is firm, but not abusive tried working with her & after 3 days, I pulled him off because she was getting more reactive & dangerous. I had her 5 panel tested & she was n/n on all of that. Sorry for the book, but your issues brought PSSM2 flags up for me.


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## Winters Edge (Jan 2, 2020)

loosie said:


> What is her living environment? Is she stabled or does she live out, like a horse, with other horses?
> 
> What is her diet? Have you ever done a diet analysis to see what nutrients she may be lacking/imbalanced in? As Walkin said, diet/nutrition can have big effects.
> 
> What is it about a 'retirement environment' that you think she wouldn't cope with?


She lives in paddock with shelter next to other horses. She is on tested low sugar timothy hay, mineral/vitamin supplement powder and a gut supplement. Zero grain. I've tried many many different combinations of feed over the years and this is the best by far. She has become an easy keeper since I stopped feeding grain. Vet did a blood panel 1.5 years ago and everything was balanced then and not much has changed.

She gets very stressed out when out in a herd and runs the fence to get back into the paddock after being out only 10 minutes. Also gets extremely herd bound to the point of running herself to death if you take a buddy away. We don't have an "retirement" setups where I live. No one turns horses out in winter on pasture because it destroys the fields (Pacific Northwest). So the living situation she is in currently is about the best "retirement" home I can offer.


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## Winters Edge (Jan 2, 2020)

HnA Tack said:


> Have you looked into PSSM2? It is a later onset in life, and a progressive muscle myopathy. Now - most vets are not utd on the information since it is constantly changing these days & think the only "real" symptom for PSSM is tying up. That is not so - there can be so many different ones, & not all have the same symptoms. Also, most vets will push a muscle biopsy but unless you have had a tie up recently, that is more than likely going to come back as negative. There is a company doing dna testing but has not been "published" yet due to they are still finding variants under the "cover" of PSSM2. The Univ of MN is currently doing a major research for all of this involving PSSM2, the variants, the dna testing, etc but it will be some time before we see results due to the major delays from Covid's interruptions. Anyway, my one mare went from a great ride one year to a gradual nightmare the next. She started spooking & bolting; bucking HARD; she became more & more difficult for the farrier; it became more & more difficult for her to hold a canter, especially with any kind of collection (her canter started looking like a "bunny hop".) She eventually started losing muscle mass too. NO one could figure it out. She was painful. Way too many people told me to "beat her butt", or she had my number. A trainer friend that is firm, but not abusive tried working with her & after 3 days, I pulled him off because she was getting more reactive & dangerous. I had her 5 panel tested & she was n/n on all of that. Sorry for the book, but your issues brought PSSM2 flags up for me.


I have not tested for PSSM but my lovely vet has done every test she can with everything being normal (within my moderate vet budget).


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## Winters Edge (Jan 2, 2020)

SteadyOn said:


> You can have your opinions on the matter, but saying that an extremely difficult but thoroughly thought-through decision to euthanize a beloved horse (very different from sending one to slaughter!!) is "throwing them away like a paper cup" is dismissive, insulting, and not helpful. You don't know what people are dealing with. It's nice that you were able to give that horse such a long life. Not everyone can do that.
> 
> Anyhow. Going to stop derailing things. Sorry OP.


Thank you, it's not easy to see other's circumstances from an internet forum, I wish someone could clearly tell me "your horse is in pain and there is no treatment, it is okay to put her to sleep". I don't know how much pain she is in and if that is what is causing her behavior to change.


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## Winters Edge (Jan 2, 2020)

farmpony84 said:


> I think you need to bring a different vet in. If this behavior was a sudden change then there is something going on. Even if it's a high energy thing from being re-habbed for an injury she has something going on. Horses don't change their personality for no reason.


She has always been "hot" with a strong work ethic but now she seems to be running off her back legs. Not sure if that is because of pain or what.


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## Winters Edge (Jan 2, 2020)

DanteDressageNerd said:


> I agree with getting her eyes checked, especially if her spookiness has increased. As well as a magnesium supplement.
> 
> I also understand about not having a horse that can "retire." Mine needs a job or his behavior escalates to dangerous. I get it.
> 
> ...


THIS!
You totally get my situation! My mare is very hard to ride and my trainer has given me almost the exact tools that you describe. Shoulder in almost always even on circles and in all gaits. Walk pirouettes, all the tricks to keep her mind busy and engaged. Her canter is insane, feels like climbing a mountain... all that is wonderful but she RUNS off her hind legs. Especially at trot, its like a freight train out of control feeling. She can bolt right through the double bridle faster than I can react. She is not dirty and keeps me on board but the bolting and running is getting worse. I feel like she's in pain and running away from it. Even before the injury this was happening.

No one else can ride her except my trainer and I (and I'm just crappy ammy who loves her dragon). She bites and snaps at everyone but me, just seems nasty overall. She nickers at the sound of my car pulling into the barn. I wish she hated me too that would make this decision easier.

I will probably be stuck with her until she's old but I resent her at times for being a difficult mare and never giving me time to just enjoy being in the saddle.


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## Indy2021 (Feb 3, 2021)

Gosh what a dilemma...I think you know what to do in the end. I have seen horses like yours in what was thought to be a retirement home...and they became crazy and imbalanced. I have actually said out loud to a couple of the retirements homes owners that a horse that goes nuts in a field and weirdly herd bound is a danger to other horses and the people running it. I have seen massive wounds on the horses that are housed with these neurotic characters and it's really bizarre and not worth doing it. 
Maybe give her month (s) off from riding then see what happens if you don't want to euthanize? You probably already did this...also might not be possible with her, but I can completely relate to you being burnt out about this problem.


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

Well, if she is your love pet justkeep her in a paddock with shelter next to other horses if you don;t want to ride her anymore. I agree with Loosie " Of course there are exceptions to any 'rule' but if you can afford to keep a horse & ride it, you can afford to keep a horse and _not _ride it. It's not as if, for the vast majority at least these days, that they _have_ to ride - mostly it's just a hobby, a sport for people which _costs more money_, so IMO that's not a valid argument. "
You say you are burnt out on "high maintanence". Well? Keep her where she is, turn her out everyday in the arena where she can free excesise, and lease another horse to ride.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

FYI while many don't keep horses turned out 24/7 on pasture in the winter in the PacNW, many do. My current and last boarding places on the OR coast have 24/7 turnout.


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

The people down the road from me in SW Oregon have 4 horses and a donkey out on pasture with a shed. They wear turnouts when it is raining a lot. Green grass turf, no mud seen.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

I think you should address to what she is being fed. IF she is getting grain, stop . Forage only diet would probably be best .It could be hormonal, eyes, and also if she has always been on the spooky side it could just be her personality. Have you checked her for cataracts? Some horses respond oddly to Ace . I also think a pen where she can move around and look around could help her also. Are there new noises around the barn ? New horses ? a horse that is calling to her when she is out ?


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

Why do you force yourself to ride a horse you don't enjoy? If she bolts and runs away it doesn't sound like she enjoys being ridden either. If she is your only horse I would probably just retire her. I have my old mare who has been retired for 10 years. She has multiple health issues, is on daily pain meds and I still dread the day that she will leave me. We have been together for 21 years. 

I have 2 riding horses. One is pssm 2 positive. Never could hold the canter without bucking. She is my solo riding horse, but gets summers off due to her condition getting worse in extreme temperatures. Summer rides are 20-30 minutes of walking. When my old mare passes, she will be my semi-retiree. 

My 4th horse was a rescue. He had many issues and once I was certain he would never learn to be a predictable riding horse, I found him a retirement home. I was fortunate to find a good situation for him, as otherwise I may have considered euthanasia. He has an incurable health issue and while he is comfortable now, he could and probably will eventually get worse. But that might be years in the future. 

My newest horse is a mustang - i don't know if she will work out or not. We are working on introducing her nose to the halter and acceptance of touch. 

I try to plan on a retirement for my animals. None of my horses have really lived up to be the horse of my dreams - most have physical limitations of some sort, but I have my own physical limitations so I guess I can be understanding. 

Certainly I could put down the older mare, I could have put down the rescue... But I really hate euthanasia unless it has to be done. If the budget allows perhaps just retire your horse and buy one you can enjoy.

You don't have to discard your retiree- my retirees get turnout, a blanket when cold, a warm stall, good food, and pain medication if needed. I don't do injections, massage, or chiropractic care... Just basic standard of care.


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## DanteDressageNerd (Mar 12, 2015)

It sounds like something could be sore in the hind end with the running and not wanting to come back. You know your horse. Could be ulcers, could also be hormonal or something to do with her ovaries. I've heard of mares being nasty because they have an ovarian tumor nobody realized and that can cause pain in the hind end and back too. Could check hormone levels or ask a vet about that. Could be a lot of different things _shrugs _however I'd try an osteopath, they solved things in my horse that vets and chiropractors missed. Rotated my horse's entire pelvis because it was skewed and adjusted his chest so much he "grew" 2cm when he could stand up properly.

Is it possible to change your mind view to, she is difficult but she is making me a better rider? A better person? There are gifts difficult horses offer people, however if you're really scared I do not blame you at all. You should count your bravery for being scared and getting on anyway. Most people just give up and dont care, you clearly do. And personally if you decided this isn't worth it for you, I get it but only you can decide when to call it.

It could be something is sore or hurting and she's figured out what gets your number. So she tests and that is a part of the issue. To me it sounds like there is something in the hind, maybe the SI (but I am not a vet and cant see so read with a grain of salt) and that she's figured out your buttons. That she can easily over power you. I think it's both. Address the physical, then address the undersaddle.

I think in these situations, you really have to evaluate the individual and ask yourself what you know about the situation. I'm thousands of kms away, I don't know and I dont think you really can without having hands on time with the horse.

*Something to think about as food for thought*​I have a friend who is an AA in dressage and was a professional, she got into arabians in retirement and I asked her why. And she said, because my back can't take the warmbloods anymore. I dont have the strength and my body is falling apart. I need something sensitive and intelligent without power. Something I can enjoy that doesn't break my body. There really is something to ridability being more than temperament. It's about how easy the horse is on the rider's body and how easily they yield to the rider. A small moving horse without much power is a lot easier to ride. I remember she was talking about how more AAs should be riding arabians vs wbs because most AAs dont have the strength or ability to organize a big moving, strong horse and would be able to move up the levels on something that doesnt take so much to organize or train. She said, it might not be as fancy but its a lot more ridable and less frustrating. 

When the vet's advice was to put my horse down, I went to every specialist and measure I could because I couldn't live with the idea of putting him down without being 100% sure there wasnt something else I could do. I reasoned I could always make more money but I couldn't give Wonder his life back. We went to countless specialists to figure him out and mostly came out with, here are the physical problems we need to address and he needs to be rebuilt over 6-12months and here's a plan with vets, biomechanics specialist and osteopath. Then a horse behavioralist evaluated him and how I work with him and was like you've done a really good job with him, just keep doing what youre doing and he's really unique. We went through diet, his daily life, etc. The weird thing that solved a lot of the neuro symptoms and really outlandish behavior was a liver detox _shrugs_ nobody knows why that helped but the hypothesis is because my horse had been on drugs for much of his life he needed a cleanse. I was told he was constantly drugged on the track because he was too game and intense and would hurt himself off the drugs. When the former owner told me that, I didnt understand. Now I do. Wonder was worth saving HOWEVER it took all my savings and I would never advise someone to do the same.

In the horse world and life in general, there are always people who assume they know best, especially when they know very little about the situation and have no hands on experience with it. It's human arrogance combined with ignorance.


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

Just an aside, not to change the subject- something Dressage Nerd said

" 
*Something to think about as food for thought*
I have a friend who is an AA in dressage and was a professional, she got into arabians in retirement and I asked her why. And she said, because my back can't take the warmbloods anymore. I dont have the strength and my body is falling apart. I need something sensitive and intelligent without power. Something I can enjoy that doesn't break my body. There really is something to ridability being more than temperament. It's about how easy the horse is on the rider's body and how easily they yield to the rider. A small moving horse without much power is a lot easier to ride. I remember she was talking about how more AAs should be riding arabians vs wbs because most AAs dont have the strength or ability to organize a big moving, strong horse and would be able to move up the levels on something that doesnt take so much to organize or train. She said, it might not be as fancy but its a lot more ridable and less frustrating."

Imagine how much more beautiful a high level test on an Arabian would be. I see these WBs at my training stable. They are half draft horse, they are huge. Sure they move big. An Arabian is all curves, sensitivity and fire.


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## Equestriansue (Feb 10, 2021)

Winters Edge said:


> She injured herself during a big spook and bolt 6 months ago. Looking back she has had some periods of being slightly off in the same hind leg but could not be diagnosed by the vet. Lameness vet said she would not come sound without surgery for more than walk/trot. Now I have no way to get her energy down because she can't be lunged...
> 
> I'm leaning towards PTS but I feel a tremendous amount of guilt even considering it. She is my love and nickers every time she sees me.


I’m so sorry. I have a forward Percheron cross that had a hind suspensory a year ago. Rehab is hell... I still don’t lunge her. I do ground work before I get on. I have found it really helpful with getting her brain focused. I’ve fallen off a couple of time with spooks broke bones and have a little PTSD from it. She is super sensitive to my feelings which make her more spooky if I’m not relaxed. I give her calming supplements and low carb/sugar food. I’ve had her saddle checked to make sure it’s not a discomfort issue. Not sure if any of this will help.


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## Animalia (Nov 10, 2019)

Have you tried any alternative treatments for her? Things like essential oils for relaxation, tuning forks, acupuncture to relieve anxiety, or other forms of energy healing like shamanic work? Also, as an animal trainer (not a horse trainer--I train dogs and parrots and have worked with tigers and lions too) I find that often behavior problems and anxieties in the animal could be a "mirror" of what's going on inside their human. I know it seems intrusive and I'm not trying to be insulting at all. Animals pick up on such subtle energies from us, things we don't even know yet that we are feeling. It's often worth at least a cursory look at what's happening in our own life and inside our own head to see if it could be affecting our animal.

There are also nutritional/herbal supplements for relaxation. They are not a good long-term solution usually, but they might help break the cycle of spookiness and allow her to become more confident over time.

I had similar issues with a horse I was leasing. I was pretty convinced that this horse was being spooky our of spite. She was too smart and too willful. I felt like she was saying "Oh, I'm going to use every single thing I see as an excuse to be "scared" and get this 'thing' off my back!". I was so tied in knots at the end of a year of riding this unpredictable thing, I am still trying to get over it. I was afraid to kick or speak too loudly to the horse I've been leasing recently, because when I did that to the stubborn horse when she was refusing to move or being otherwise belligerent, she would then spook badly if I raised my voice or tapped her with a crop--even very ligthly. It was ridiculous.

I suspected simple behavior issues with her and shamanic work did help some, for awhile. But since she was not my horse and I had no part in her care and upkeep, there wasn't much else I could do. I suspected there were some dietary issues. The boarding barn only fed hay once a day. They would dump a big pile of small bales in each pen--into the muddy ground--no feeder. the horses had to fend for themselves to be able to eat and went many hours with nothing to eat at all for the 9.5 months they were locked out of the pasture. Her crabbiness and spookiness doubled in Winter. I found giving her some hay cubes while I got her tacked up helped a bit too.

Good luck! I hope you can resolve this. Otherwise, I would suggest finding a trainer who is willing to buy her as their personal horse or to rehab and re-sell her.


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## Yoshimoto the frosty roan (Dec 16, 2020)

Winters Edge said:


> I've owned my 18 year old mare for 7 years. She is getting more and more spooky the older she gets and I don't feel safe riding. Vet sees her every 3 to 4 months and she's in good health except for a mild hind suspensory injury last year that we are still rehabbing under saddle. Prior to the injury we were doing 3rd level dressage. She is a huge animal and only my trainer and I can ride her because she is difficult under saddle.
> 
> She LOOKS for things to spook at and I can't relax for even a second while on her back. I'm tired of being scared to ride and I'm so so tired of putting in so much effort and money in. It sounds so selfish but I'm burned out emotionally and financially.
> 
> ...


HelloI have a mayor that's 7 years old and she acts the same way she looked for things this book I just give her a read and not to spook she probably just needs to have her confidence build up a tablet my horses with an abused horse so when I was acting like you know nothing really bugged me and my horse saw that I was being brave about things and she kind of went okay yeah sure and to me I just asked my horse what the heck are you afraid of why are you looking for things to be afraid and once I find the bottom of it I let her decide truly should we go on or should we actually turn back and eventually she actually just thinks okay I'm just going to go forward because she's saying there's nothing wrong I think it's about to let your horse figure out why she's speaking and what you know to do before you get on her walk around and there's you can try to use Viva calm it's good for a horse that stressed out a lot that will kind of what she's doing and stressing because she's looking for things to actually get scared of because of the spookiness and my horse speaks at wind the I have a 2-year-old that spooks at the wind and he looks for anything in the wind to the freak out of that because it will affect the way the horse hello I might have a solution I have two horses a mother and son my mother horse my mirror is actually 7 years old why my building is too and on the mayor looks for things to smoke at and what I do is I work it out and I talk to her I'll let her know that she's okay and let her figure it out that she is okay I think it's best for a horse to because they are pre-animal to learn that what's going to threaten them what's not you know what's going to harm and what's not my two-year-old my 7-year-old's baby actually likes to freak out the wind and looks reason to spook at the win now my horse is actually having to be afraid because they're near a nature park wildlife park and my 7-year-old took on a Florida panther and one she could take on a pack of coyotes and when she could probably do the same to a pack of wolves and but she is what you call a stallion mare which another terms is also known as the lean mare she leads the whole herd so I just figured you also can give your horse beaver calm because this could be a stress-related problem there's other calming stuff out there so you might want to give those a try to so also train your horse to be relaxing calm not sure help as well before you ride her I trained my own horses so I have more respect for my horses so if I feel like something's in danger or my horse has done something in danger they come in front of me and say you ain't going until we know it safe so I basically have a bond with my horses all I'm saying so it might you might want to get your horse to trust you better and only the owner of the horse will be able to do so so she's having writing issues or Daenerys there she shouldn't be spooking with you writing her so there's something she's not probably ready to be written or anything yet but she have to be at least walked or tried or anything you can always do that on the ground as long as she goes for miles you know you can walk her like I walk and drop my baby horse all the time I still call him baby cuz he's a baby until he 6 years old so that's when his final you know bones are going to grow there on his back so you know I mean it might be something you might want to try to look into yourself I'm not good with words I'm totally sorry about that but I saw your thing it popped up in my email and I thought oh I can help with this my my 7-year-old she was actually abused she would view it by her old owners with a whip and her son was slugged in a face all the time and when I I was at three bad boarding tables where he got whipped pretty darn good and so she sees a whip and she's going to like send you flying like with me she's thrown into kick me several times because she's afraid but I would just reassure her that I'm not going to hurt her or anything and I'm not going to ever bring a whip to her so when horses spook I guess to get the bomb to the line and stuff cuz I'm probably dragging this thing out so long and you're probably not going to want to read it is when a horse boots they're unsure of their surroundings they're nervous they're thinking oh my gosh something going to pop out at me or that thing could hurt me or oh my goodness what's going on here I'm scared I'm going to look for the closest thing so I can spook and try to get out of something It's always there's oh it's got to be something in the confidence which is the confidence department of reinsuring them but for example this happened two days ago me and my mom and stepdad took our horses out for a walk I took my two-year-old now he's been almost ran down by semi couple times someone thought driving into my truck for a company without be funny to do that to him so now when he sees a truck it's like oh my gosh I got to get out of here I got to get out of here like he gets so spooked and scared and I just stand there and I just let him figure it out like if he's thinking why are you staying there and he runs at me then I take my your subject and I will point to the ground to his feet saying don't you run me over and let and let him get it out of his system and then when he realizes I'm not going to go anywhere he's not going to go anywhere until he solves this problem then he actually stops thinks about it and then when I slowly start turning my back to him again and walking he actually starts walking behind me He's still scared he still like running around me but he realizes I'm not going to leave him alone I'm I'm letting him figure this out I'm not telling him what he has to be scared of what he cannot be scared of and that's probably not coming out right right there but I'm saying I don't tell him what to do on that area I just say easy there boy it's okay and then you know every now and then and then finally when I get past it he's more relaxed I just pat him I said that's a good boy and then he gets all happy and proud of himself that he did something so maybe try something like that if you notice she's scared and spooking out about something something definitely got her nervous so it's probably not a sham it's like when something's nervous and they want to look for another thing to really be splooked out about or they're just wanting to look for something that's going to scare them for have to actually asking you for your attention she could be saying I'm scared but what can I do about my fear I think I can do this and I'll get tension you just got to try to figure out what she's asking why is she doing this but I just thought I'll see if I can help You can always post back on your thing to try to figure out what I say and basically I'm just ask I'm just saying I'm asking my horses to figure out themselves when they're spooky so if they're spooky there's there's always a reason behind it but I'm just trying to figure out what reasons behind it I'm with me I usually just like I said I give on VivaCom and or some stress thingy but leave a comment takes really sweet to them so they actually like it and then on like I said let them work out the spookiness on their terms not mine so they know I actually care like I care about what bothering them so I hopefully I'm helpful hopefully I didn't drive me bonkers


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## Foreverivy (Nov 12, 2020)

Winters Edge said:


> I've owned my 18 year old mare for 7 years. She is getting more and more spooky the older she gets and I don't feel safe riding. Vet sees her every 3 to 4 months and she's in good health except for a mild hind suspensory injury last year that we are still rehabbing under saddle. Prior to the injury we were doing 3rd level dressage. She is a huge animal and only my trainer and I can ride her because she is difficult under saddle.
> 
> She LOOKS for things to spook at and I can't relax for even a second while on her back. I'm tired of being scared to ride and I'm so so tired of putting in so much effort and money in. It sounds so selfish but I'm burned out emotionally and financially.
> 
> ...


 As others have said, I’d recommend getting her eyes checked by a different vet or even a specialist, and if nothing turns up there, I would check for a cyst or other problems with her ovaries. There was a mare at my barn who was sweet and calm, and suddenly started acting neurotic, around other horses and with people. The vet checked her and found a cyst, she had surgery. It was incredible how quickly she returned to her normal self. Hope this helps! Horse health problems suck


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## Chris68 (Jan 21, 2021)

Winters Edge said:


> I've owned my 18 year old mare for 7 years. She is getting more and more spooky the older she gets and I don't feel safe riding. Vet sees her every 3 to 4 months and she's in good health except for a mild hind suspensory injury last year that we are still rehabbing under saddle. Prior to the injury we were doing 3rd level dressage. She is a huge animal and only my trainer and I can ride her because she is difficult under saddle.
> 
> She LOOKS for things to spook at and I can't relax for even a second while on her back. I'm tired of being scared to ride and I'm so so tired of putting in so much effort and money in. It sounds so selfish but I'm burned out emotionally and financially.
> 
> ...


You didn't say what was done with her before you got her. Maybe some relaxing trail rides on loose rein? Fun ground work games or obstacle course in hand to give her some other things to think about and experience besides just arena dressage work. Sometimes they have done the same routine so much that they just don't have the focus you expect anymore. Cross training is always good for the mind and body, theirs and ours! Hope this gives you some ideas??


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## keelan (Jan 5, 2010)

You might have the thyroid levels checked. I know that a kind family dog can become a menace (sudden change of behavior) if the thyroid is low.


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## Cathryn (Jan 16, 2021)

Hello! I have read some of the posts and there is some good advice. I will add my 2 cents, which may already be in some posts. Start again on the ground. I have been a student of Natural Horsemanship for many years now. Different programs offer mostly the same techniques and my previous horse and I benefited incredibly! He was put down for medical reasons at 25 yrs. Now I have a nearly 4 yr. old Arabian I've had since he was a yearling. Ground play, understanding behavior, and long walks well before any riding (which still is minimal to save on growing joints). The techniques of the teaching give both horse and rider confidence in clear communication and adds to the bond. Following health examinations to determine any problems in that area I would suggest studying a well established Natural Horsemanship program. Yes, it can take a long time; depends on how much you want to understand your horse and give her a good life, which will give you a good life. I wish you luck and confidence!


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