# trouble sitting to fast canter/ gallop



## ilovepets (Oct 29, 2012)

i ride western 

i was watching my videos from last time i posted them (in the critique section... which didnt really go as i likes after a while..) and i have improved greatly! when loping my butt stays in the saddle and my hips rock with the horse. but in the trails i likes to canter and gallop but i just feel like i am doing it wrong. i have weight in my heels and the are down and i try to relax my hips and just let them do whats natural, but i rise a little and i am rocking my hips. i am much looser, it just seems like the rhythm of the gait is just to big to sit to BUT when galloping and cantering up and down slight hills, i can sit with the rhythm perfectly. my friend was borrowing a horse and we were doing a pretty fast canter and then a gallop and she said that his gait was just to... open or big (for the lack of a better term) to sit to, could that be my problem?. another problem that i have tried many times to stop, is when cantering or galloping, my right leg swings back and fourth more than i would like it to. i still keep weight in my heels, but it still does it anyway and i have no clue why. :neutral:


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## Boo Walker (Jul 25, 2012)

I have a tall horse (17.2h) and he definitely has a "big" gait and it took me awhile to get used to a canter that felt huge and out of control, not at all comfortable. Just keep practicing and you'll learn his rhythm. After awhile it won't feel so strange. At the same time, your horse is getting used to how you ride. As you learn each other, the "bigness" of the canter/gallop will become easier to sit.


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## ilovepets (Oct 29, 2012)

thanks  i will definitely be doing more riding when it gets cooler out. i still am planning to do some ring work with her (and me!) for keeping her going her own way and not gravitating towards her horse friend or people and to work with her side stepping problem that even her real owner hasnt had any success with fixing. i think once in a while its good to do some ring work because the trails are so straight forward and easy for them ;-)


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

You have to keep in mind that not all horses have smooth gates, so that could be part of your problem. Secondly you should not be sitting when your galloping anyways. You should be at least in your half seat if not 2 point to get off their back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Agree with M2G, I never sit down on a horse that I'm galloping the way I do at a controlled canter. I always get up off their back in a sort of modified 2-point so that they can really stretch out.

Riding a flat out gallop while your sitting is very hard...not only on you, but on the horse as well.


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

ilovepets said:


> i have weight in my heels and they are down and i try to relax my hips and just let them do whats natural, but i rise a little and i am rocking my hips. i am much looser, it just seems like the rhythm of the gait is just to big to sit to BUT when galloping and cantering up and down slight hills, i can sit with the rhythm perfectly.


I just got back from galloping today - so hopefully I can help while I still remember my ride in mostly full detail  . 
I also have a hard time sitting a gallop - but I can to a lope just fine. One thing I have heard and read, is that if you barely lean forward so you have just a little more weight in the stirrups and your bum is about a half inch off the saddle (kind of like you are riding in your stirrups, but not really) then it can help.
today I was bouncing like crazy, but once I got up in the saddle a little bit it really helped. And if you are having troubles kind of staying that way to begin with, then I found that pushing up on the cantle a little bit helps as well.



> my right leg swings back and fourth more than i would like it to. i still keep weight in my heels, but it still does it anyway and i have no clue why. :neutral:


I found that when I gallop, if I keep my feet mostly perfectly level with the ground and just kind of even the weight out - it helps with the swinging in my legs - mine do it too.
But just keep them level with the ground and just put a little bit more weight in there than you usually would.


If you are having troubles sitting a lope as well, then I found that if you hold on to the saddle horn, but push back so you are kind of sitting on your pockets in the cantle, then it helps to keep in the seat and ride it a little better.

I hope this helps you because it really did help me today when I was riding.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Agree with MG2 and Smrobs here. Trying popping your stirrup leathers up a whole so you can get off the horses back, making it easier for yourself and your horse. Raising those stirrups will also help you control your leg and not have it flapping all over if it is. Good luck:wink:

Like this:


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## ilovepets (Oct 29, 2012)

My2Geldings said:


> You have to keep in mind that not all horses have smooth gates, so that could be part of your problem. Secondly you should not be sitting when your galloping anyways. You should be at least in your half seat if not 2 point to get off their back.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


i will have to learn about 2 point or half seat and then i will experiment at the canter first. when is the difference between the 2?



amberly said:


> I just got back from galloping today - so hopefully I can help while I still remember my ride in mostly full detail  .
> I also have a hard time sitting a gallop - but I can to a lope just fine. One thing I have heard and read, is that if you barely lean forward so you have just a little more weight in the stirrups and your bum is about a half inch off the saddle (kind of like you are riding in your stirrups, but not really) then it can help.
> today I was bouncing like crazy, but once I got up in the saddle a little bit it really helped. And if you are having troubles kind of staying that way to begin with, then I found that pushing up on the cantle a little bit helps as well.
> 
> ...


lots of info i can use here  when you say perfectly level with the ground do you mean you leg is perpendicular to the ground? my leg situation is weird- i have wight in my heels and grip with my knees, but nothing changes. and sometimes, but not that often, my left has weight and i grip with my knees, but my foot inches out of the stirrup and if i don't fix my stirrup before we start there is a good chance that it will come out (i stop before that happens for my own safety). as for the lope, i am great with that!

just another question which might not be answered because every horse is different..... but, sometimes when we are trotting (about a medium trot, not too fast) i ask clearly for the canter and she does this weird in between thing that is a trot and a canter- i can feel the up and down of the trot and the rocking of the canter. then after a second or two she trot and i ask again and she canters- or she will do a fast trot and i ask again and she canters. is there any reason for the in between gait (other than tiredness, and not because she is in pain, because i know she's not)?


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"I have wight in my heels and grip with my knees"

Weight in the heels and gripping with the knees is a bit of a contradiction. Weight in the heels comes from NOT gripping, which interfers with the flow of weight past the knees and into the heels.

If you could get a picture or two, it would help folks help you.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

You ride western, I'd watch how some barrel racers ride. You have to get up and off their back, like everyone else has said.











Not a perfect example but that gives you the idea. Just a picture I had on hand of a mare I started a couple years ago.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

amberly said:


> I just got back from galloping today - so hopefully I can help while I still remember my ride in mostly full detail  .
> I also have a hard time sitting a gallop - but I can to a lope just fine. One thing I have heard and read, is that if you barely lean forward so you have just a little more weight in the stirrups and your bum is about a half inch off the saddle (kind of like you are riding in your stirrups, but not really) then it can help.
> today I was bouncing like crazy, but once I got up in the saddle a little bit it really helped. And if you are having troubles kind of staying that way to begin *with, then I found that pushing up on the cantle a little bit helps as well.*
> 
> ...


I cannot think of any time pushing back against the cantle is going to improve your riding. Sounds like a way to create more tension, actually.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Tiny, I have to agree. Pushing back off the horn and jamming your pockets against the cantle will certainly wedge your butt into the saddle, but it's not conducive to fluid riding.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

(gotta say, any time you agree with me, I feel like I won the jack pot. you know so much more about riding than I do, so if I say something you agree with, I go < "Yes!"


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

LOL, well thank you .


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## ilovepets (Oct 29, 2012)

bsms said:


> If you could get a picture or two, it would help folks help you.



i dont have any recent pictures, i only have older ones when i couldnt sit to a lope :shock: (which now i can). i havent dont any ring work in a long time, only testing out gait speed on the trails


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

ilovepets said:


> when you say perfectly level with the ground do you mean you leg is perpendicular to the ground?


Yes, kinda. Haha! It's hard to explain - you still want a bend in your knee, but the lower part of your leg should be mostly fully perpendicular to the ground with your foot parallel with the ground. I hope that makes a little more sense, hehe.



> i have wight in my heels and grip with my knees, but nothing changes.


I know it may be hard - but try your best not to grip with your knees. When you grip with your knees, it can throw you a little off balance sometimes, but also it can make your ride much more bumpier and rough. I did that when I was trotting - I couldn't stop bouncing, haha!!



> but, sometimes when we are trotting (about a medium trot, not too fast) i ask clearly for the canter and she does this weird in between thing that is a trot and a canter- i can feel the up and down of the trot and the rocking of the canter. then after a second or two she trot and i ask again and she canters- or she will do a fast trot and i ask again and she canters. is there any reason for the in between gait (other than tiredness, and not because she is in pain, because i know she's not)?


I am not sure for a reason other than maybe she might not be sure exactly what you are asking, she might be a little lazy and doesn't want to go there just yet (my horse!!!) or possibly something along those lines.
I know exactly what you are describing because my horse does that too. My horse will go through all his 16 million speeds of trot to see if he can get out of loping for once. When I am bouncing in the saddle like crazy, asking him for a lope and sitting in the right position for it - it is really hard to ask him up again from that trotrotrotrotrotrtortorotrotrot he has. It's crazy.
But I would just make sure to double check your tack, position, and just double check for pain - just to be sure.


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## ilovepets (Oct 29, 2012)

amberly said:


> I know it may be hard - but try your best not to grip with your knees. When you grip with your knees, it can throw you a little off balance sometimes, but also it can make your ride much more bumpier and rough. I did that when I was trotting - I couldn't stop bouncing, haha!!
> 
> I am not sure for a reason other than maybe she might not be sure exactly what you are asking, she might be a little lazy and doesn't want to go there just yet (my horse!!!) or possibly something along those lines.
> I know exactly what you are describing because my horse does that too. My horse will go through all his 16 million speeds of trot to see if he can get out of loping for once. When I am bouncing in the saddle like crazy, asking him for a lope and sitting in the right position for it - it is really hard to ask him up again from that trotrotrotrotrotrtortorotrotrot he has. It's crazy.
> But I would just make sure to double check your tack, position, and just double check for pain - just to be sure.



well i can safely say that i dont have a death grip with my knees  there is a little pressure, so my knees arent just hanging out. its actually kind of hard to grip really hard because i have 2 big knots from the girth where my knees are! sometimes i blame them for my unevenness because one is more comfortable than the other :lol:

and ooooh yes my horse can be lazy. which is why-(i probably shouldn't note this because of the last rants i got in the critique section)- which is why i have a crop, just incase she is being lazy. i can kick and kick and she wont listen if she is being lazy then i tap her on the shoulder with the crop and she's like "yes ma'am!" and we go off into the next gear


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

amberly said:


> Yes, kinda. Haha! It's hard to explain - you still want a bend in your knee, but the lower part of your leg should be mostly fully perpendicular to the ground with your foot parallel with the ground. I hope that makes a little more sense, hehe...
> 
> ...When I am bouncing in the saddle like crazy, asking him for a lope and sitting in the right position for it - it is really hard to ask him up again from that trotrotrotrotrotrtortorotrotrot he has...


I have no idea why anyone would WANT their foot parallel to the ground while galloping or cantering. I'm not saying it is always wrong to ride with a level foot. It isn't. But all other things being equal, I don't see a level foot as a big advantage that someone should try to achieve.

If your heel is under your hip, then your lower leg is angled back and a level foot is often all a person can do. If the heel is further forward, and the lower leg is vertical, then it is easy to allow your weight to flow past your knees and into your heels, and have the heels lower.

I'm not a teacher, trainer, champion anything. I don't compete & I only have a bit over 5 years of experience. But personally, my leg is more stable and I find it easier to keep my feet in the stirrups when my heel is just in front of my belt buckle and my heels down.

If you are bouncing like crazy, then something is not quite right. With me, bouncing is usually due to one of two things:

1 - I have a stiff lower back from a fall 4.5 years ago. Some days it isn't too bad, and I can move well with the canter. On other days, it hurts, is stiff as a board, and I use a half-seat to save my horse's back. A stiff lower back and sitting the canter don't go well together.

2 - My horse is balanced too far forward. She is getting better, but she has always had a habit of cantering with her balance dangerously far forward. When we started, I literally was scared we would flip over. She is learning to canter with better balance, and we are doing lots of circles at a trot to help her balance...but when her weight goes too forward, she is a rough ride.

There are probably a lot of other causes of bouncing. Those are my two biggest problems.

Sitting the canter or gallop is fine if you move well with the horse. Given my back, I often prefer a half-seat. Here is an old thread on it, from an English/forward seat perspective:

http://www.horseforum.com/english-riding/riding-canter-half-seat-120340/

If you want speed, then a forward seat (including western riding) helps a lot. George Morris's book on Hunt Seat Equitation is great. Although he writes from a jumping perspective, the principles work fine with a western saddle on the flat. At least, they have done well by me.

This is a good, short article:

http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Riding-Position-Every-Hunter-Rider-Needs-to-Master&id=2277803


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## ilovepets (Oct 29, 2012)

i was getting back on when the pic was taken so my position might not be perfect, but that is how i hold my leg



and this is and *old* picture of me trotting to show you my leg position. ----do not comment on the reins, they are not tight they are snug to keep her in line or else we would be heading home when she wanted to, they are loosed on the trails----


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Your leg position isn't bad. Just remember to get out of his way when you run, which is hard to explain, but upper body forward and pushing him along with your legs when you run.

Not perfect examples by any means, but you can see how my leg matches yours in these shots.



















One reason your leg needs to be under you is so you don't do what I did in this picture:










I got way too excited, pushed forward hard to pat her neck as we were running home, and look how my butt is nowhere near the saddle and my leg is up. If she was to jump, slow down suddenly, etc I would be OFF in a heartbeat, or at least close to it. Luckily I sat my butt back down not two strides later after we got passed the timers.

An awkward pic here of use doing a large fast circle in the reining (My hand and upper body needs to be more forward, but look at my leg)










Andd this is just the first barrel racer I yanked off youtube, but check out the body position here too, how stable it is:






Even jockeys on the track, they are keeping their leg stable and heels pressed down. It's their upper bodies that are moving.


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## ilovepets (Oct 29, 2012)

Thanks that helped a lot  it was hard to see it the half seat in the video but today I was watching a lot of the Olympic cross country, so I could see it a lot clearer ;-) when I ride next I am going to haver friend or he mom teach my half seat. Hopefully it will be smoother
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

At a canter the leg matching the lead will naturally come forward a bit. The toes will even make tiny circles, one lead clockwise, the other counterclockwise but I can't remember which is for which. The motion of the horse's body does this especially if the horse is not totally straight.


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