# What color is this paint/appaloosa mare?



## horseaddicted (Jul 2, 2014)

She is half paint and half appaloosa. She has one half blue eye and one brown eye. I'm not sure what her base color is, I would guess liver chestnut but in some places the base color seems more black or grey. She has appy spots on her paint spots, so it's especially confusing!


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## horseaddicted (Jul 2, 2014)

Somebody let me know if the pics are showing up or not..


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

She is chestnut. Carries a flaxen gene. Looks like she carries Splash. Tobiano? Varnish? Sabino?

Lots of patterns going on here...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

CLaPorte432 said:


> She is chestnut. Carries a flaxen gene.



Looks way more like silver dapple to me.


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## Pyrros (Feb 10, 2012)

Silver is excepppptionallly rare in stock horses and thus very unlikely. I see chestnut (or maybe color shifted/bronzed black) with obvious tobiano. Looks to be varnished. The longer I look the more I lean toward a bronzed black base but I digress.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bronzed black? What is that?

I see liver chestnut. This horse has a lot of red in its base coat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## horseaddicted (Jul 2, 2014)

As for some of the red- her mane and tail is white except for the base of the tail, just stained by Oklahoma red mud. I don't think it's flaxen, but I don't know except for the light brown base of the tail, which the pics probably don't show. 

I was really thinking liver chestnut. As for the roaniness, as I mentioned she is half Appaloosa. Probably Varnish.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

CLaPorte432 said:


> Bronzed black? What is that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe fading black? I don't know...


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## Pyrros (Feb 10, 2012)

Bronzed black is a black base coat that has even color shifted by the LP gene. Also called 'bronzing' I'm on my phone right now which sucks so in short LP can do wonky things to colors resulting in color shifting. It can make a black horse appear liver or other shades of red or chocolate or in a few cases even palomino. I have some picture examples on my computer but one such mare is pretty well known though I don't know her name. She's a leopard I think and her coat looks golden palomino but she tested no cream an either black or bay (black I think) and I think she's a dressage horse or eventer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

I remember seeing some very weird colors that Appy patterns cause. I know of the filly you are talking about...well, mare now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThunderingHooves (Aug 10, 2013)

Not really good with genetics, but she is cute. Also what kind of halter is that? Never seen one quite like that.


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## Kodachrome310 (Jun 29, 2014)

What I see is a liver chestnut varnish roan appalossa with a tobiano pattern. The lighter mane and tail are probably just caused by the appaloosa coloration affecting that area. I've seen more than a few appys with dark colored base coats and lighter manes/tails particularly the varnish looking ones. That said, I am far from a color expert and appys are always confusing lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

she is pretty .. i would say chestnut , but the bronze color would fit her also. 
Very pretty.


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## horseaddicted (Jul 2, 2014)

Pyrros said:


> Bronzed black is a black base coat that has even color shifted by the LP gene. Also called 'bronzing' I'm on my phone right now which sucks so in short LP can do wonky things to colors resulting in color shifting. It can make a black horse appear liver or other shades of red or chocolate or in a few cases even palomino. I have some picture examples on my computer but one such mare is pretty well known though I don't know her name. She's a leopard I think and her coat looks golden palomino but she tested no cream an either black or bay (black I think) and I think she's a dressage horse or eventer.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That could be it, because the color is different in different areas. Some places seem black or grey and some brown. She actually has no red as in chestnut on her anywhere, she is just dirty lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## horseaddicted (Jul 2, 2014)

ThunderingHooves said:


> Not really good with genetics, but she is cute. Also what kind of halter is that? Never seen one quite like that.


It's a pretty cool halter that you unclip on the side and pull off instead of undoing the buckle. It's pretty convenient.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pyrros (Feb 10, 2012)

Now that I'm on my laptop I can give a bit more in depth response, ha!

So it's been referred to as 'appaloosa bronzing', 'color shifting/shifted' and just 'bronzing'. Now it is caused by LP and effects some but not ALL black based horses with LP. It can cause some really wonky effects and distort the horse's real color quite significantly. 

This mare was tested BLACK and does NOT carry agouti: 









and here's a picture of her in the winter:









This guy was also tested to be just plain black:











This mare tested Black and Dun making her a grullo, but obviously dealing with some major bronzing:










This guy was tested smokey black (black, one cream) but looks like this:











And of course it can be less intense as well, such as on this horse who's specks of color rather resemble your mare's: (Black or bay base coat)










And another 'bay' mare:











Why it is only on some and not all black based LP horses I don't know, nor do I know if that has even been discovered yet. It's very cool though.


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

As far as her pattern goes, she is carrying tobiano but definitely something else (excluding the appy half). Tobiano does not cause face white and though she may carrying varnish as well, I see some sabino traits too. Possibly splash. Therefor it is difficult to tell if the mare's "roaning" is caused in fact by an appaloosa gene or simply sabino. Parentage is irrelevant, unless you can prove that either is homozygous for their pattern genes.
The only way to be certain is to get her tested.
Do you know what color the parents were?


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## ThunderingHooves (Aug 10, 2013)

horseaddicted said:


> It's a pretty cool halter that you unclip on the side and pull off instead of undoing the buckle. It's pretty convenient.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree those are very handy. I was actually referring to to the hardware though. The piece where the cheek strap, nose strap, and the jaw strap all comes together. That has a loop facing her lips. I've never seen a halter like that. What is the purpose of the loop?


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

With the amount of white she has and the heavy white flecks in much of the remaining color, I don't think you can accurately know her color without genetic testing. I'd believe you if you told me she was liver chestnut, or black, or brown, or bay... or any other number of colors ;-)


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Pyrros--Really cool photos.

Have you considered having your mare tested, OP?


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## horseaddicted (Jul 2, 2014)

Pyrros said:


> Now that I'm on my laptop I can give a bit more in depth response, ha!
> 
> So it's been referred to as 'appaloosa bronzing', 'color shifting/shifted' and just 'bronzing'. Now it is caused by LP and effects some but not ALL black based horses with LP. It can cause some really wonky effects and distort the horse's real color quite significantly.
> 
> ...


That one definitely looks very close to her base color. Thank you for going to so much trouble to explain this.  It's really interesting.


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## horseaddicted (Jul 2, 2014)

ThunderingHooves said:


> I agree those are very handy. I was actually referring to to the hardware though. The piece where the cheek strap, nose strap, and the jaw strap all comes together. That has a loop facing her lips. I've never seen a halter like that. What is the purpose of the loop?


Oh yes that part. I've been told you can actually attach a bit to it and use it as a bridle.


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## horseaddicted (Jul 2, 2014)

lilruffian said:


> As far as her pattern goes, she is carrying tobiano but definitely something else (excluding the appy half). Tobiano does not cause face white and though she may carrying varnish as well, I see some sabino traits too. Possibly splash. Therefor it is difficult to tell if the mare's "roaning" is caused in fact by an appaloosa gene or simply sabino. Parentage is irrelevant, unless you can prove that either is homozygous for their pattern genes.
> The only way to be certain is to get her tested.
> Do you know what color the parents were?


My goodness! She could be loaded with modifiers lol. 

No, we don't know anything about her parents.


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