# Chestnut or Sorrel?



## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

Is this horse a chestnut or a sorrel? And whats the difference?


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

They're the same thing. The Western world tends to call them sorrels, whereas those in the English world call them chestnuts. Same color. Red.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

It's also the most common color a horse can have.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Corporal said:


> It's also the most common color a horse can have.


Still my favorite, though. :wink:


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> They're the same thing. The Western world tends to call them sorrels, whereas those in the English world call them chestnuts. Same color. Red.


Thats what i though, but i had been told otherwise. Thank you



Corporal said:


> It's also the most common color a horse can have.


Really? I would have assumed bays were more common!


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Nope, the base for pretty much all the coat colors is red, so of course chestnut/sorrel is the most common.


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> Nope, the base for pretty much all the coat colors is red, so of course chestnut/sorrel is the most common.


Makes sense, thanks!


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## Northernstar (Jul 23, 2011)

Your horse looks exactly like my sorrel QH! _Very coppery_ - I just acquired a chestnut Morgan last week, and the differences (at least with these two) are more than I imagined, seeing them together! I was always under the impression that sorrel and chestnut were more similar, but my chestnut looks by far a darker shade compared to Star 
* The Morgan in my avatar is Laney, who is a bay - time for a new avatar!


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Northern, there are_ variations_ of chestnut/sorrel, but they're the same color. You can believe otherwise, but that won't make it so.

A liver chestnut is still red, as is a bright copper penny sorrel. Same color, just different depths and richness.


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## Northernstar (Jul 23, 2011)

Speed Racer said:


> Northern, there are_ variations_ of chestnut/sorrel, but they're the same color. You can believe otherwise, but that won't make it so.
> 
> A liver chestnut is still red, as is a bright copper penny sorrel. Same color, just different depths and richness.


I don't believe otherwise, but agree - that is what I was attempting to say, but in a round about way, I suppose


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

Northernstar said:


> Your horse looks exactly like my sorrel QH! _Very coppery_


The horses name is actually Copper! How imaginative eh? He's going to be mine at the end of the month


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## Northernstar (Jul 23, 2011)

Oooh, so happy for you! He is a handsome boy! What I find with Star (all 3 of my mares, of course!) is that daily brushing, even if there's only time for a 'quickie', brings out those natural oils and the sheen in the sunlight is beautiful! Is Copper registered? Would be neat to find if he's related to Star....She's an Impressive grand-daughter - Sire was, 'Impressive Dandy', Dam was, 'By Far A Star'.... Congratulations, and I'll bet you can't wait!


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

Northernstar said:


> Oooh, so happy for you! He is a handsome boy! What I find with Star (all 3 of my mares, of course!) is that daily brushing, even if there's only time for a 'quickie', brings out those natural oils and the sheen in the sunlight is beautiful! Is Copper registered? Would be neat to find if he's related to Star....She's an Impressive grand-daughter - Sire was, 'Impressive Dandy', Dam was, 'By Far A Star'.... Congratulations, and I'll bet you can't wait!


I have no idea whether or not he's registered. I bought him from the ranch that i was working at, and they got Copper and a few other horses from some lady who just could afford to keep them. She basically dropped them off, said they were broke, and left!

I plan on spoiling him a little (not food wise, he obviously doesnt need that!) but daily brushing and lots of love!

Thanks, i can't wait to bring him home!


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> Nope, the base for pretty much all the coat colors is red, so of course chestnut/sorrel is the most common.


This isn't true. Red is the base for the red based colours - chestnut (or sorrel, depending on your location), palomino, cremello, red dun, dunalino, etc.

Black is the base colour for so many more colours. Black, bay, brown, buckskin, smoky black, brownskin, perlino, smoky cream, smoky brown (or a double dilute brown horse, whatever you feel comfortable calling it), grullo, bay dun, brown dun, perlino dun, smoky cream dun, smoky brown dun, and so on. 

Definitely far more colours that are black based than there are colours that are red based.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

As others have said, chestnut and sorrel are genetically the same color: red.

However, some folks will use both terms to differentiate between _shades_ of the horse. For example. around here, the lighter, more orangey horses are called sorrel but the deeper, darker horses are called chestnut.

I've actually got a perfect picture example too LOL. This is Bessie and Rafe, they are mother and son. Bessie is the lighter and I always call her sorrel. Rafe, I always call him chestnut.


















Then, of course, there is the super dark chestnuts that appear to be nearly black. Those are called liver chestnuts. Anything lighter than this and darker than Rafe, I would simply call a dark chestnut LOL. Help you get more confused yet?


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Speed Racer said:


> They're the same thing. The Western world tends to call them sorrels, whereas those in the English world call them chestnuts. Same color. Red.


 It can be breed specific. Peruvians are Chestnut.


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## Northernstar (Jul 23, 2011)

The horse in your last photo is _extremely _similar to my new chestnut Morgan, Sugar 
* You'd have to go to my 'barn' to see a photo - haven't had time to update my avatar yet...


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

I've always thought the same as smrobs. Here's another example. Both registered with AQHA, the one on left is registered as sorrel and the one on the right as chestnut.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

Only horse folks can argue the semantics of "color" and "shade". All I know is that in elementary school my little box of Crayolas had 16 colors, NOT 16 shades 
BTW, my box of horse colors has both a sorrel and a chestnut.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Southern Grace (Feb 15, 2013)

When I was younger, someone told me that sorrels have the lighter manes (usually with some white hairs interspersed) and chestnuts had same color or darker. I whole heartedly believed this until I got into genetics.

In genetic terms ee is chestnut (if there are no other color factors modifying it), regardless of breed. Sorrel is used by many registries as well as horse owners as a coat color, but it is not a _genetic color_ term. Most horse color information will use them interchangeably.

I would also beg to differ on Chestnut being the most common color. A horse is only Chestnut if it has no other colors modifying it (a palomino is not a chestnut, although it is homozygous for red "ee"). As red is recessive, genetically speaking, you would have more horses black based than red based, and once you take out any creme or grey modifiers, I wouldn't think Chestnut would stand as most common horse color (though it is more common in certain breeds than others). When I lived in Ireland, chestnuts were very rare and valuable, and the Andalusian breed would have wiped out chestnut if it hadn't survived hiding under grey modifiers. Not to mention Friesians, Shires, and Clydesdales (all of which do have the red gene, but very uncommon).


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