# Sharon Jeffco's side of the story...THE TRUTH



## mftowner06 (Nov 2, 2009)

Sharon yesterday posted on facebook about what really happened... did you all know that this happened 2 years ago??? This is what really happened from her side of the story full of documentation of everything that happened....

Please read EVERY WORD to find out the other side....

doublejranchperformancehorses.com - !! LATEST HAPPENINGS !!

If you click on the link - after it comes up over on the right hand side up at the top you'll see Judge Judy/Misty Tongue click on that.... it is I believe a downloadable documentation....

Please read!!!!


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

No thanks-it still is just ONE side. Not necessarily "THE TRUTH".


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## amp23 (Jan 6, 2011)

Haven't seen it on tv but I've only read into it a little. I agree with bubba, one side is not necessarily the truth. I'm surprised this horse survived, that's the worst thing I've ever seen done to a horse's mouth.


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## Walkamile (Dec 29, 2008)

How many threads do we need on the SAME subject?!


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## mftowner06 (Nov 2, 2009)

Ok well if you're not willing to hear all sides then don't add more fuel to the already raging fire....


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## PaintsPwn (Dec 29, 2009)

They both need to grow up and get over it. Nothing was handled properly, and JJ made that very clear. The end, it's over, it sucks but there's three sides to this story. The owners, the trainers, and the truth.


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## Walkamile (Dec 29, 2008)

mftowner06 said:


> Ok well if you're not willing to hear all sides then don't add more fuel to the already raging fire....


Not sure how any responses on this thread could be remotely compared to adding more fuel to the already raging fire.

Remember, you are on a public forum, and people will have their own opinions, and are entitled to have these opinions.


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## Lakewood Farm (Feb 5, 2012)

*sadly to you*

this IS the truth and she has documents / photos to prove it...

To all who have shared the horses tongue that got cut PLEASE see the "other" side of the story. The main question I have is how could ANY owner watch their horse being abused that way???!!!!!!??? 
IF she was there why not stop right then.. ......doesn't that make you wonder about the OWNER??? 
Folks just read for yourselves and see the injustice. Yes poor horse I am sorry for Misty!! but look at the timeline and the facts. 
The TRUTH. Want to know what REALLY happened in the Deborah Hatridge Dobbs/Horse Tongue/Sharon Jeffco case? Check it out here.....complete with documentation to BACK IT UP. http://www.doublejranchperformancehorses.com/ To the owner, if it were my horse I certainly wouldn't have been showing it in that condition just 10 days later, 
That says a lot about how much you cared for your horse!! Show records tell the truth, the whole truth!! 
:evil:


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

WEll, I waded through most of it. I find it to be lots of documentation, yes, but there sure are a lot of discrepancies even with all the reams of papers. Frankly, I got tired of her trying to prove her point, and stopped reading when the stated she had only had the horse for 15 days and ridden it 6 times....

Not sure how she counts, but per HER DOCUMENTATION the horse was brought to her on March 2. THe injury supposedly occurred April 1st. This is more than 15 days, no matter how it is counted. As far as the injury being "old" or new-as I see it, she had the horse FOR A MONTH! Even the massage person saw it and none even looked in its mouth, even tho it was having issues, until blood came out? Wow. And she expects us to believe her story. Not sure how stupid she thinks we are. I find it insulting, and still feel sorry for the poor mare. Yeah-I saw the old "scar" on the tongue. It was minuscule, really.

And the whole thing starts with her showing her "gag" order! I think she probably should have stuck to that., jmho. Glad she isn't training around here.


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## Lakewood Farm (Feb 5, 2012)

You were closed minded when you opened her information that was for sure! 
" per HER DOCUMENTATION the horse was brought to her on March 2. THe injury supposedly occurred April 1st. " 

If you'd read thru it you would have seen they had the horse LOOKED at and teated thus why the delay in training 

You'd also seen the wound was infected, now how could that be if it just happened? as well as any person you knows wounds could clearly, yea clearly see it was old! 

I agree poor horse but it happened somewhere and the person who really did it isn't the one paying the price. 

The reason for the quote on the gag order is the owner 'spilled the beans" the trainer did not! If fact she had not posted or said much until the last 2 days, look for your self, but poor owner has slammed it all over every place she could... 

I have seen this posted 100's of times "poor horse" , what she means is poor owner, no regaurd to the horse after the photos!!

My last point is why in the world would this "caring owner" show that horse 10 days later ???? That folks is backed up by the judge at the show with photos to boot!! 

just take time to see the whole story!! 

THAT is why I am mad! :twisted:


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

mftowner06 said:


> Ok well if you're not willing to hear all sides then don't add more fuel to the already raging fire....


 YOU are the one adding fuel to the fire by starting yet ANOTHER thread on the same subject.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Lakewood Farm said:


> You were closed minded when you opened her information that was for sure!
> " per HER DOCUMENTATION the horse was brought to her on March 2. THe injury supposedly occurred April 1st. "
> 
> If you'd read thru it you would have seen they had the horse LOOKED at and teated thus why the delay in training
> ...


Actually, she started ground work with the horse when it arrived, THEN had it looked at. THere is really no sense discussing it with you. For whatever reason you think this trainer is "all that" and will not even contemplate there there may have been some wrong on her side also. Yes, the owner was wrong, I would agree with that, even more so since this is not an owner new to horses. BUT when a person makes their living with the title of "trainer" there is a certain amount of knowledge we, as clients expect. That is, after all why we hire them, and do not train the horse ourselves. I expect that my trainer, who is also, BTW, a reining trainer, knows more about how my horse should be trained than I do. I would never, however, stand by and watch my horse abused. Some people look at their trainers as "god" and would never question, especially well respected ones.


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## Texas817 (Feb 5, 2012)

you buddies of Sharon Jeffco coming out of the "wood pile" to defend her confirms to people like me with common sense that horse didn't just "bite it's tongue" and that is Not an injury over a month old (the horse was in her care for 1 month, her "Facts" from March 2 to April 1st before the vet found the injuries on the tongue).. nice attempt to save your buddy though.. but she's guilty as hell. .... and why don't any of you post the "bits" used... (yes I said ""bits"", bcz she even states in her "Truth Proof" she changed them out) ...

kinda need to know that information when you are stating you are "innocent" from any kind of abuse. Let the horse people know what kind of bits... let us decide if it was a torture bits or not... she's evasive when stating bit. 

so here's where it gets good..... Sharon gives the horse 4 days off due to found "soreness"... 
she gets back on the horse... but gets the same results from the horse... rearing, bucking and scotching. 
*SHOCKING!!!!!! .... she's got you "trainers" and your "bits" Pegged by now.. and will not "tolerate" your BS.

Sharon Jeffco is the one with a business card with "professional trainer" under her name. ..... Professional Trainer and it takes you 10 days to get a disrespectful horse stay out of your space???? Cooooome OOOOON.. Seriously? Seriously???


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Texas817 said:


> you buddies of Sharon Jeffco coming out of the "wood pile" to defend her confirms to people like me with common sense that horse didn't just "bite it's tongue" and that is Not an injury over a month old (the horse was in her care for 1 month, her "Facts" from March 2 to April 1st before the vet found the injuries on the tongue).. nice attempt to save your buddy though.. but she's guilty as hell. .... and why don't any of you post the "bits" used... (yes I said ""bits"", bcz she even states in her "Truth Proof" she changed them out) ...
> 
> kinda need to know that information when you are stating you are "innocent" from any kind of abuse. Let the horse people know what kind of bits... let us decide if it was a torture bits or not... she's evasive when stating bit.
> 
> ...


And noone EVER even thought to look in the horses mouth! If indeed these injuries were there, they certainly would have been seen during that month! Look at the threads here about difficult horses. What is the FIRST thing people say. Check back, teeth, etc. Eliminate pain as a cause of the behavior. Yet this woman calls herself a "trainer"? Wow.:shock:


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## Texas817 (Feb 5, 2012)

yea.. and in "this case" I would be checking into Sharon's "Bits" and Sharon, and eliminating Both. ... old injury my old jackass.
no thank you, I don't want to buy your ketchup popsicle


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

There are three sides to every story - person A, person B and the TRUTH. Just because you are posting that she said this is the truth doesn't make it the truth or people who choose not to take it as such unintelligent.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

It would seem that the "friends" may be thinking about this all....one of them is still on this thread, but remaining silent. Perhaps finally really thinking this all through.


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## Texas817 (Feb 5, 2012)

Oooo one more thing.... would one of you buddies of Sharon please advise her to revise her website under the "worming" program she offers... 
For those not aware... She offers a program to "Worm" your horse for you..

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9581/image76ki.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

IT'S -- DEWORMING -- DUMB*** .. you don't "WORM" horses*. 
Yet another "big shot horse trainer" in the world.. just what we needed more of. 
*


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

I know, and most trainers who train ranch horses, reiners, etc, do not also do pleasure. Reining is pretty specialized, which is why I hire trainer who train reiners. PERIOD. (not multiple disciplines).


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## Texas817 (Feb 5, 2012)

agreed franknbeans. excellent point.


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## PaintsPwn (Dec 29, 2009)

Cleve Wells had a lot of nutjobs trying to defend him too.


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## Texas817 (Feb 5, 2012)

PaintsPwn said:


> Cleve Wells had a lot of nutjobs trying to defend him too.


hahaha.. that's the FIRST person I thought of when I heard this story... funny how that crap just draaaags behind ya after all these years.... I guess that would be why the "defense strategy" is full steam ahead.


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## Lakewood Farm (Feb 5, 2012)

*I agree to disagree.*

I may be the silent one as I had to leave to feed my kids. To reply to us supporters. Lets not get into name calling as children , it's ok to have an open discussion and I am willing to consider your valid points. 

Let me say that I am the first to scream the loudest when it comes to any animal being hurt in any way. I have spoken out for years about WP horses that lope in your hand and the trainers who would stand in the stirrups and yank a horses mouth. I have never met this tainer and most certainly know she isn't God! As for trainers mine has won on a world class level . He dose reining, working cow, roping dabbled in western pleasure and even had an hunt person work out of his barn. He excelled at all levels. when more than one judge says your good then you can say that!! 

The whole reason I even started to look into this was the fact the owner said she watched it happen, I thought are you crazy or what! It was rainy day had nothing to do so started asking questions and found the rest of the story. I just have to ask you folks how many of you look at a horses mouth that comes to your place? If the horse drops feed or tosses its head then yes take a look. By the trainers own merit and reports from another trainers as well as the person who found the horse sore. she did seen there was a problem thus why she waited to ride the horse. Yes totally agree a month is a long time to mistake something so grusome as what we see in the photos. 

I know trainers make mistakes and I know some horses don't respond to training methods the same way as others. I once had a trainer bit up my horse with an O ring snaffle. she reared up flipped over backwards fought like a mad horse until we cut her lose, please note the was enough stretch in the line she was never bound down but when she hit the end she went crazy. even with all that she didn't cut her mouth and I tell you she was hitting the bit hard. There are a lot of unanswered questions some we may never know but of the 2 stories Sharon has a truer ring. 

BTW I say I worm my horses, just like I say yawl, and yuns. big hairy deal on how you say it. if a vote were taken I'd lay odds more say "worm their horses" than "Deworm" and yes I've been to college on horse care. they said it there Too!!! Even cataloges say wormer... http://www.jeffersequine.com/category.asp?camid=EQU&c=215&c2c=ln now I have to wonder how many of us are that dumb! Why even throw that into this??? 

 I agree to disagree. The reason I even joined this was due to the photos being posted everywhere. all one sided....


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Lakewood Farm said:


> I may be the silent one as I had to leave to feed my kids. To reply to us supporters. Lets not get into name calling as children , it's ok to have an open discussion and I am willing to consider your valid points.
> 
> Let me say that I am the first to scream the loudest when it comes to any animal being hurt in any way. I have spoken out for years about WP horses that lope in your hand and the trainers who would stand in the stirrups and yank a horses mouth. I have never met this tainer and most certainly know she isn't God! As for trainers mine has won on a world class level . He dose reining, working cow, roping dabbled in western pleasure and even had an hunt person work out of his barn. He excelled at all levels. when more than one judge says your good then you can say that!!
> 
> ...


I don't understand how you see this as "one-sided". To even say that is to imply that some of us with opinions different from yours are so dumb we don't realize there is more to the story. Not the case. As for your "O ring snaffle"-most snaffles would not do that damage, in my experience-but a thin wire one would. the "O ring" is meaningless. What is important in what is IN the horses mouth. I am happy or you that your trainer can do so many things "well". that is certainly not typical of reining trainers, from my experience. And "yanking on a mouth" doesn't typically have this result, unless what you have IN the mouth doesn't belong there.

How you could read what I have read and come to the conclusion that this woman is innocent is beyond me. I certainly would never defend her and say I was someone concerned with the animals, but-that is just me. Yes, we will have to agree to disagree, because I will never side with this abusive trainer.


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## Texas817 (Feb 5, 2012)

Lakewood Farm said:


> Let me say that I am the first to scream the loudest when it comes to any animal being hurt in any way..............


blah blah blah... too bad you're missing our point and obviously your own... that's what we are doing.. defending the horse that was blatantly abused, it has the wounds to prove it... any word on the "BITS" used by Ms Sharon????

maybe you didn't read that "TRUTH PROOF" sloooooow enough to catch all the contradictions and BS. as your kindy teacher would say.. go back and read it again until you get it. haha 

Just remarked the tree *as dogs do.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

According to Sharon Jeffco, prior to the incident, the horse was thrashing and fighting when someone tried to bit her - "rearing up in aversion to SNAFFLE bit...remember how she fought and fought and fought and even flipped over!...What we thought were behavioral issues was her trying to tell us about her tongue!"

I'm not super experienced with horses, but my response would be, "No [4 letter word deleted], Sherlock!" A horse thrashes, fights, and even rears and flips over trying to avoid getting a bit in her mouth, and you don't suspect that something may be wrong? :shock: :shock: :shock: A horse panics to the point of flipping over, and you don't even suspect there may be a reason for her fear?

That, by itself, seems like ample evidence that this trainer is NOT one I would want to do business with.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

bsms said:


> According to Sharon Jeffco, prior to the incident, the horse was thrashing and fighting when someone tried to bit her - "rearing up in aversion to SNAFFLE bit...remember how she fought and fought and fought and even flipped over!...What we thought were behavioral issues was her trying to tell us about her tongue!"
> 
> I'm not super experienced with horses, but my response would be, "No [4 letter word deleted], Sherlock!" A horse thrashes, fights, and even rears and flips over trying to avoid getting a bit in her mouth, and you don't suspect that something may be wrong? :shock: :shock: :shock: A horse panics to the point of flipping over, and you don't even suspect there may be a reason for her fear?
> 
> That, by itself, seems like ample evidence that this trainer is NOT one I would want to do business with.


Exactly what I was saying. Every day here on the forum there is a horse with issues. What are the FIRST things everyone says to do. Check for pain. Mouth, back, etc. It is not rocket science.:evil:


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Where these people that are defending Sharon actually there to witness what went on? Probably not, so how can ANYONE be 100% certain that she did NOT abuse that horse?

The horse must have just cut her tongue herself. It wasn't the owners fault. And certainly wasn't the trainers fault.

But hey guess what, I can go and write a bunch of BS that's "THE TRUTH" too. I'm a awesome story teller and I can give minute by minute details of exactly what happened. Ha.


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## Lakewood Farm (Feb 5, 2012)

for the sake of being fair DID go back and re read Sharons account. 

it comes down to which person you belive, after reading this 

*"FACT *I began riding Misty again after approximately 4 days rest, unfortunately, with the same poor result of rearing, bucking and scotching. At about 9PM on *April 1, 2010 *(remember this date for sequence of events) during a training session, which did consist of asking Misty to walk at liberty (not on a lead line….just walk around the arena at whatever pace she wanted) with the bit in her mouth while being side reined. Dobbs and I saw a tiny amount of blood coming from the horse’s mouth. We stopped the mare, removed the bit, saw no more blood, mare was clam, thinking the corner of her mouth must have been pinched by the bit we *both *decided to continue the training, replaced the bit and continued. After just a couple moments of further training, we then noticed more blood. We immediately stopped the training session, attended to the horse, and called Dobbs’ vet who instructed us to bring the horse and the bit the next morning for examination. 
*At no time did I ever tie Misty’s head to her chest and beat her with a lunge whip. 
I *personally trailered the horse to Dr. Elizabeth Fullbright the next morning. It was then discovered that the horse had lacerations to its tongue. I was present during the veterinarian exam, and the injury was stated and documented by the veterinarian (with her technicians present) as OLD lacerations to the tongue, one of which was infected. The veterinarian asked about the type of bit that was being used and after examining the bit, said it could NOT have caused the damage. "

what caught my attention to begin with was the owners comments, then the fact that she showed the horse 10 days later. Poor , poor horse in the photo it is clear it was not at top weight. THAT is why I jumped on my stump. I agree it is a bad thing that happened to this horse, but can't say for sure it was Sharon after reading her side. who ever did it will get their just due here or later that I know for sure. We could post back and forth for days I would not change my mind and I am sure none of you will so will kindly bow out. hope the "truth" comes out some day. and before I get a smart remark there are still a lot of things not adding up. if you don't think so then you have scales on you eyes. Talk amoung yourselves as I will be deleting my account.


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## Texas817 (Feb 5, 2012)

I don't care how AnyOne "Spins" it.... those wounds are not "Over" a month old... people can spin that crap all day long til they're dizzy for all I care.... I don't know "how" that tongue got cut up, got a pretty good idea though, but the tongue was cut up on Sharon's watch, in Sharon's barn, so she is responsible. 
Just becz the horse wouldn't take a bit prior to April 1, does NOT prove the horse had the injury prior to being in Sharon's training regimen prior to March 2nd... just proves this horse has had "torture bits" used on it and it was familiar with those "torture bits"... and it sure doesn't prove that Ms Sharon Was Not Using said "torture bits" to cause injury.. But I'll tell you what does... those injuries are not over 1 month old. If you believe that.. I got a box of ketchup popsicles I sell ya... even put you on the automatic monthly receiving order.

So Unless the "Abuse Fairy" came down from it's "Magical Sky" and took a box cutter to that horse... anything's possible I guess... this injury was due to neglect of one Ms Sharon Jeffco

the owner was not "training" the horse... the owner was not "caring" for the horse.. the owner was not "receiving payment for training or caring for the horse".. you're missing the point. the horse was NOT injured on the owner's watch. 

By the way........ any word on what kind of "Bits" Sharon was using??? That is a BIG detail being "Left out" for someone attempting to "clean up their mess"


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

No, what it comes down to is this: A professional trainer, faced with_"rearing up in aversion to SNAFFLE bit...remember how she fought and fought and fought and even flipped over!"_​didn't think to check the horse's mouth. For goodness sakes, *THE HORSE FLIPPED OVER TRYING TO AVOID A SNAFFLE!* :shock: :shock: :shock: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Does that make the owner a wonderful person? No. But someone who hangs their shingle out as a professional can expect to be held to a higher standard than the owner - although neither is a person I would want to have anything to do with!


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## Texas817 (Feb 5, 2012)

ya know... people keep bringing up the point, Dobbs was riding the horse with a bosel just fine 10 days later, no problems with the horse.. not that I agree with this, bcz I don't by no means, but just proves torture bits were used on this horse. 

Any word on what "Bits" Sharon used yet?? just curious if she has presented this information to the world so we can call her out.


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## loveduffy (Dec 22, 2011)

I have been told that a bike chain bit could do this if use improperly why any body would use this type of bit is beyond me


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

It would appear that MS Jeffco has posted on another forum......or at least someone using the name of her farm as their name.

Trainer allegedly abuses horse - tongue lacerated - Page 6 - Chronicle Forums


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## Texas817 (Feb 5, 2012)

hahaha.. you kidding me... did she post the "Bits" she was using yet??? 

does she not "Get IT"???? 

it's over... it's Cleve Wells over... neeext. haha


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

No-just more "read my side" crap. Interesting tho, that forum seems to be more on her side. Not sure if it is because it is primarily english discipline riders or what. I don't get it. Yeah, the owner may be crazy, but still. THis lady was supposed to be the TRAINER!


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## Texas817 (Feb 5, 2012)

i don't get it either.... and yes the owner sounds like a "case study" but she wasn't the one with her name on the business card with "professional trainer" below her name. 

my god... that horse needs a hero. poor kid.


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## mftowner06 (Nov 2, 2009)

You wanna know why I ve been quiet because no matter what I say you are going to have your ONE SIDED opinion and it's obvious no matter what evidence we put out there for you to read and look at you're going remain one sided... 

I am not going to waste my energy any longer....


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## PaintsPwn (Dec 29, 2009)

Texas817 said:


> Any word on what "Bits" Sharon used yet?? just curious if she has presented this information to the world so we can call her out.


I've been wondering the same. If I were absolutely certain the piece I was using couldn't have done that damage, I would have stated the size, brand and style of the bit. I'd almost bet money it was a twisted wire. That being said, I'm not demonizing a twisted wire bit. It's solely up to the person using it on if it helps or hinders, and unfortunately it's the latter. 

I'm not a world champion, nor do I have any outstanding credentials but I have had the opportunity to work some horses and break a few here and there... I shouldn't use the word break.. I have trained them to ride. I never had to break them, they accepted everything very easily. I've also had a lot of problem horses come my way, and I'm working with one right now who -gasp- *has anxiety when mounted. *So, using common sense, I though "Hey, let's just completely restart her since she has issues from being poorly started."

You know what? Saved me a hell of a lot of time, the horse stress and over all she's trusting me way more for it... I didn't have to win a world championship to figure that one out, and I'd say most people on this forum didn't need to do that to figure that out either.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

What I am saying is that two people, who are friends of Jeffco, joined the forum to defend her. I have to say you have not succeeded in my case. 

I read through all of the article you posted. It did more to CONFIRM my opinion that Jeffco did the damage. By her own admission, she had the horse almost a month. The wounds on the tongue were NO WAY that old (or older, from another mystery trainer).

The wounds were relatively fresh. No, that wasn't an "infection" near the lower part of the tongue, it was a contusion (bruise) from the same bit that made the slice, it just didn't hit there hard enough to cut. No way that was infection. (I say that as having spent 8 years as a paramedic). Those "old scars" that Jeffco claims proves prior abuse, are normal tongue grooves. Go look at your horse's tongues. You will see similar grooves.

It doesn't take long for any mouth wound to show "aging" simply because of the moisture in the mouth. The sharp edges of the wounds are what show those cuts to be way younger than a month.

When I bridle a horse, I always see the tongue as they open up for the bit. I can't even imagine how anyone could miss those injuries. And, after having had the horse a month (remember the damage was done a "month" previously) and it all of a sudden starts bleeding? When all she was doing was WALKING the horse at liberty?

I've been professionally training horses for over 40 years and I have NEVER cut a horse's mouth. In fact, I don't even have a bit in my tack room that could even make those kinds of cuts. That had to have been a thin wire or twisted wire bit, IMO. I wouldn't have one.

Sorry Jeffco friends, you have only made me believe in Jeffco's abuse. Yes, the owner was a fool, as well. But she trusted Jeffco to know what needed to be done.

Friends of Jeffco


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

I haven't seen the Judge Judy episode in question. I have read the previous thread (the first few pages anyway) and this thread. I read the "This is the Truth" thing by the trainer. That is all I have seen.

Having only seen really the trainer's side of the story, I have to say I agree with Alison. There is no way at all that those wounds are over a month old in the photos. Forgive the horrificness of this analogy, but you could chop the end of the tongue off the horse, and it would be fairly well healed within a month. The mouth is one of the fastest healing areas of the body. It has to be - you need to eat and drink to survive.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Allison Finch said:


> ...When I bridle a horse, I always see the tongue as they open up for the bit. I can't even imagine how anyone could miss those injuries...


That is easy for you to say. It is tougher when your bridling experience goes like this:
_"rearing up in aversion to SNAFFLE bit...remember how she fought and fought and fought and even flipped over! Remember how she would go up and I had to grab her neck just to stay on?"
_​I guess it is tough to notice your horse's tongue when your horse rears and flips over a few times trying to avoid a bit...

You know, Allison, I'll bet you have never had one arm around the horse's neck, your feet 3 feet off the ground, the horse about to flip over...while you try to finish getting the bit in its mouth! Those who keep their feet on the ground while bridling a horse just don't understand the athletic ability it takes to be a REAL pro... < / sarcasm >


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## DebraBarlowsQuarterHorses (Feb 2, 2012)

fyi...dobbs lies never end...yesterday she got on equine blog on facebook with jimmy parker and he copied and pasted her replies to his questions because she wouldn't come right on saying she pulled her horse from that competition ten days later because it couldn't perform...that was a lie..their are standing to show she showed in 9 of the competions and was disqualified from a few of them from what i hear for how her horse was acting


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

DebraBarlowsQuarterHorses said:


> fyi...dobbs lies never end...yesterday she got on equine blog on facebook with jimmy parker and he copied and pasted her replies to his questions because she wouldn't come right on saying she pulled her horse from that competition ten days later because it couldn't perform...that was a lie..their are standing to show she showed in 9 of the competions and was disqualified from a few of them from what i hear for how her horse was acting


Noone has said the owner is a saint, in fact far from it. Blame lies on both sides here, but for someone to call themselves a "professional" horse anything, let alone a trainer, and have this happen on their watch-should be ashamed. There is NO way those injuries are a month old. Period.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

DebraBarlowsQuarterHorses said:


> was disqualified from a few of them from what i hear for how her horse was acting


This isn't evidence, it's hearsay. I heard that sharks like to eat redheads best. Doesn't mean it's true.


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## BCtazzie (Jun 7, 2011)

so from what I have read, this is what I see. Both parties are idiots. The trainer not only has committed PR suicide with the way she has handled things but has draw quite an perspective of her horseman skills. The owners skills are also pulled into that muddy muddy waste land. After seeing how she handled her side of things, there is no check blank enough to take one of her horses to train.

When things hit the fan kids, some times the best thing is to pay someone that knows what they are doing. Be it training horses or PR. That couple of g's you may spend will be well worth it down the line! 

If off the bat she had hired a PR person to work their magic no way this would have blown up to what it is now. At this point in time it is a serious clean up in isle 5, and to clean up this one is going to take alot more then just an easy fix. Damage is done.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

bsms said:


> That is easy for you to say. It is tougher when your bridling experience goes like this:
> _"rearing up in aversion to SNAFFLE bit...remember how she fought and fought and fought and even flipped over! Remember how she would go up and I had to grab her neck just to stay on?"
> _​I guess it is tough to notice your horse's tongue when your horse rears and flips over a few times trying to avoid a bit...
> 
> You know, Allison, I'll bet you have never had one arm around the horse's neck, your feet 3 feet off the ground, the horse about to flip over...while you try to finish getting the bit in its mouth! Those who keep their feet on the ground while bridling a horse just don't understand the athletic ability it takes to be a REAL pro... < / sarcasm >


Hey, I have started too many horses not to have these occasional problems. I find that these horses will often improve with patience and bribery. I paint bits with molassas, which often wins a horse over, if they are difficult. Even so, my 5'9" frame has been airborne here and there. 

When a horse is having these problems, the first thing I check is teeth and mouth, however. Nasty behavior is dealt with when they have a clean bill of health.


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## Lakewood Farm (Feb 5, 2012)

: Sharon Jeffco : Equine Law Blog

Here it is Judge Judy a long with some great info!


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

I've read all of that already. Her "facts" only served to enforce my feelings against her. I know you are defending her, and likely know her. But, she is simply not telling how those fairly fresh cuts are supposed to be over a month old.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

Allison Finch said:


> I've read all of that already. Her "facts" only served to enforce my feelings against her. I know you are defending her, and likely know her. But, she is simply not telling how those fairly fresh cuts are supposed to be over a month old.


Agreed with above!

_ It is not proper procedure for a vet to_ suture a wound that is a month old, especially on the tongue.


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

I don't know why anyone would want to defend either of those idiots. I will tell ya this, if this were me on either side, I would be so ashamed of myself and be hiding my head in shame. Not these idiots. They want to go to court and also air all of this out on the internet. I don't think either of them give a crap about the horse.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I read the thread that talks about the horrific abuse and I read the articles submitted on this thread. The only conclusion I can come to is that the horse was, at some point, subjected to abuse.

I do find it interesting that it spent 10 months with a different trainer and was sent to this women because it had recently begun to rear and misbehave. The trainers arguement that the behavior could be an indication of the pain she was already in does seem plausible. 

It also appears that the owner of the horse is stalking the trainer and that she is definitely trying to destroy the womens reputation, it is possible that she believes the trainer really did cause the damage. Although, it is stated that this owner was at all training sessions?

Also... According to the trainer, not only did the trainer win the case but she was not charged with animal cruelity.

However, not knowing the owner, previous trainer, this trainer, or anyone involved... I cannot draw any conclusions or choose any sided.

The fact of the matter is, a horse did suffer at the abusive hands of "man" and that's shameful.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

I watched the judge Judy episode. I can't really say the trainer "won" the case as judge Judy never really gave a final word when she found out that the trainer had paid the owners lawyer money to "just get it over with"as the trainer said judge Judy just hit the gavel and ended it. So I would not say the trainer won she had already paid money to the owner before the trial was aired. Money paid by the trainer to the owner sure sounds like admission of guilt to me.


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## furbabymum (Dec 28, 2011)

Yup, true. I've taken many a dog in to have stitches and that has always been the case.



Taffy Clayton said:


> Agreed with above!
> 
> _It is not proper procedure for a vet to_ suture a wound that is a month old, especially on the tongue.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

furbabymum said:


> Yup, true. I've taken many a dog in to have stitches and that has always been the case.





Taffy Clayton said:


> Agreed with above!
> 
> _It is not proper procedure for a vet to_ suture a wound that is a month old, especially on the tongue.


I'm still not siding with either side because I think both sides may be equally responsible through either neglect, mishandling, or ignorances... maybe even through stupidity... anyhow...

I noticed on the pictures that the front wounds were stitched but the farthest, nastiest one in the back remained open. It also looked like it may have been older...????? Did anyone else notice that or was that my imagination?


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## BaileyJo (Aug 23, 2011)

farmpony84 said:


> I'm still not siding with either side because I think both sides may be equally responsible through either neglect, mishandling, or ignorances... maybe even through stupidity... anyhow...
> 
> I noticed on the pictures that the front wounds were stitched but the farthest, nastiest one in the back remained open. It also looked like it may have been older...????? Did anyone else notice that or was that my imagination?


No, not your imagination. 

Wouldn't anyone think that this could have been the original cause of why the horse was being so difficult in the beginning? 

Who knows what really happened. All I know is that it very unfortunate.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

farmpony84 said:


> I noticed on the pictures that the front wounds were stitched but the farthest, nastiest one in the back remained open. It also looked like it may have been older...????? Did anyone else notice that or was that my imagination?


I think the photo was taken halfway through the procedure.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

farmpony84 said:


> I read the thread that talks about the horrific abuse and I read the articles submitted on this thread. The only conclusion I can come to is that the horse was, at some point, subjected to abuse.
> 
> I do find it interesting that it spent 10 months with a different trainer and was sent to this women because it had recently begun to rear and misbehave. The trainers arguement that the behavior could be an indication of the pain she was already in does seem plausible.


It could also mean she just had another poor trainer who couldn't fix the horse. The owner seems to be pretty clueless and may just be a bad judge.



> It also appears that the owner of the horse is stalking the trainer and that she is definitely trying to destroy the womens reputation, it is possible that she believes the trainer really did cause the damage. Although, it is stated that this owner was at all training sessions?


I think this owner is a fool, period. She is possibly the type who believes everything the trainer says. We've seen those types out there. And yes, I believe she is trying to ruin her. BUT, the trainers own claims and "documentation" are almost as damning as anything the owner is saying.



> Also... According to the trainer, not only did the trainer win the case but she was not charged with animal cruelty.


Wrong. There was a previous case in court long before Judge Judy. In that case, the trainer paid 900.00 in restitution. Judge Judy had to take that into consideration in her decision. Judge Judy RIGHTFULLY refused to give the owner *additional *money (what this case was about) for the owners lawyer (seldom a recoverable expense) or "punitive" damages...mostly because the owner owned some responsibility for the incident. NO ONE said Jeffco was not guilty....except Jeffco.



> However, not knowing the owner, previous trainer, this trainer, or anyone involved... I cannot draw any conclusions or choose any sided.


I don't know about that. Luckily, there was so much evidence produced, I think you can draw a few conclusions. First, there is no way those lacerations were over a month old. Secondly, many of the trainers claims regarding the timelines and extent of the injuries are "sketchy". Thirdly, the owner may just be clueless and equally guilty in this situation.



> The fact of the matter is, a horse did suffer at the abusive hands of "man" and that's shameful.



Yes, terribly shameful and horrible for the horse, who will be scarred for life in more ways than just physically.

Sadly, there are a lot of trainers like this out there and just as many owners.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I am not defending the trainer. I am not defending the owner. I am curious though, what the real story is. If only the horse could give it's side...

I am curious about a lot of things from both sides, such as:

Was the owner really ignorant enough to stand by and watch this happen?
Then again, could that have happened in a matter of seconds?
Were the trainers horses really murdered?
Are there laws protecting the trainer from the so called stalking that the owner is doing?
How green a rider is the owner?
Is this one owner the only one that has ever had a horse injured in this trainers hands?


I could even come up with more. It would have been an interesting case to see go to court with realy lawyers and expert witnesses....


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

It never ceases to amaze me at how some people feel the need to drag out subjects over and over again just to satisfy their own need for ranting and throwing their opinions in everyone elses face. I think its time for this topic to die.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

SorrelHorse said:


> It never ceases to amaze me at how some people feel the need to drag out subjects over and over again just to satisfy their own need for ranting and throwing their opinions in everyone elses face. I think its time for this topic to die.


It never ceases to amaze me how some people feel the need to tell others what to do on an open forum just to throw their opinions in everyone’s faces and satisfy their own feeling of superiority. If you don't like this thread or any other, don’t read it or post on it.
Not a difficult concept. That's what most do I suspect.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

If this is an open forum why do you have a problem with what I say....? I don't remember targetting anyone specifically. I don't see why you are taking offense.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

_I would never presume to tell anyone who is having a conversation to stop, get over it or let it die. If I don’t like what people say, I walk away. _
_I do not like being told that my opinions don’t matter and are irrelevant and inconsequential._
_There are plenty of threads on this forum that I am tired of seeing and I just scroll right on past, never would I or have I told a member that their conversations are not worthy of continuing._

_The fact that you inferred that you thought this thread is not worthy of continuing has an air of superiority that was offensive to me._
_As stated before if you don’t like, no need for a snark comment, just scroll on by._


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Despite how you took that comment, it was my opinion. Just like you have an opinion, I have one too. I never said "This topic MUST die" or "I DEMAND this topic dies". I said "I _think _its time for this topic to die." I _think. _My _opinion. _On an _open forum. _I never once said your opinion was irrelevent or unimportant. You can think I'm trying to be superior if you would like, however stating something on an _open forum _as you say is not against the rules here. I was not taking stabs at you or anyone personally. Though, it is true you are free to interpret anything I say as you like. I hold nothing against you for it because this is an open place to discuss. It's nice that your ability to scroll past other topics prevents your own frustration and makes you a bigger person than me.


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

I personally think it is great to have discussions such as this in an open forum. Maybe it will keep someone else from letting something like this happen to their horse. A lot of people come here new to horses and trying to learn. Talking about it and making people aware may be the only good thing that can come out of this horrible situation.


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