# Do You Let Your Farrier Hit Your Horse?



## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Yes I do think that you are over reacting. If he beat your horse, then change farriers, but just a little whack is fine. 
Honestly when she started pulling you should have corrected her, as you did not, the farrier did. 

I believe he has a right to do this, an injury to him is weeks without work and loss of income and potential loss of clients.


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## stardust (Aug 15, 2010)

A a matter of fact I did pull her up. For the minor muck up she did I don't think it justified the farrier hitting her with his fille. I'm all for her doing as she is told and being pulled up when she does not. The farrier was in no danger whatsoever, she simply was being a stubborn cow and wanting to put her foot down. We aren't talking about a slap to the shoulder and a "stand up!", we are talking about a METAL file. If anything I think by the farrier disciplining her in this fashion will teach her to hate on farriers and then eventually she won't want her feet done. I am very protective of my horse. But nonetheless thanks for your opinion.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Generally my horses are well behaved for the farrier but they have had their moments when they decide they want to dance around or lean. Yes he has smacked them. Never hits the legs usually a whack on belly or butt to get their attention & focus back to him then he approachs back in calm manner & finishs what he was doing.It is his health & welfare at stake & if my horse is doing something that potentially can hurt him or is making his job harder then I am not against him getting after them if they are being ignorant.He is more tolerant of the youngsters that having their feet done is newer to them, but if he has done them several times & then this one day they decide they aren't going to stand so nice & they know better then yes they need correction. Depending on the degree of correction they are needing, sometimes me holding the horse trying to tell them no stand ,while he is down there working can create more trouble & often it is harder for me to see it the horse is leaning or resisting his leg as much as he is feeling it:-(
Also my farrier is pretty good at telling if the horse is stiff or sore creating resistance for him or if they are just being ignorant & treats them accordingly, either accommodates them to be more comfortable or tunes them in
I want respect on both sides from my horses to him & my farrier to my horses:hug:. 
I am happy on both accounts & when you find a farrier that is good at his job you want to hang on to him:grin:


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

As it appears from your second post that you are very unhappy about this so I would talk to your new farrier and let them know that you find this unacceptable. If you don't let your new farrier know, it will likely happen again as it is fairly common.


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## stardust (Aug 15, 2010)

I agree paintedpastures. I wouldn't have minded if he had given her a smack on the tummy or the butt with his hand but I thought using the file was kind of harsh especially because she wasn't doing anything that bad. Another farrier warned me not that long ago that this particular farrier was quite rough with horses and I never thought he was until the other day. I agree there should be respect on both ends, the horse to the farrier and the farrier to the horse. I just don't want my girl learning that getting her hooves done is going to be a bad experience and then in turn her not wanting to cooperate at all since she is pretty much great with getting them done now.


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## Pidge (Sep 5, 2009)

My mare can be a bit testy...she has her days for certain, but usually she is pretty good for my farrier Jason. The second time he was out though, she was having one of her days and while he was doing her back foot she decided she was done with him and yanked her foot away before taking a full blown kick at him. He was quick to smack her across the butt with the rasp and I yanked down on her halter and got all over her...it was quite funny for her to realize that neither of us was going to deal with her crap and she put her head down and stood pretty the rest of the time.

Now Jason is also a professional trainer, so I trust his opinion...ive seen him give her smack with his hand before when she has been stubborn and in the event that she took a big kick at him I found it entirely appropriate for her to get a hard whack. Also I would like you to know that even if a rasp is metal they are not designed to hit things with and farriers are more likely to break a rasp smacking a horse then they are to hurt the horse. (atleast in my experience)

So do I mind Jason repremanding Bause? No...BUT if you mind and wish to do this yourself and not have the farrier get envolved you need to make this clear to them in the beginning so that when your mare is acting like a cow they will tell you and let you handle it your way. Also...some farriers are unnessicarily rough and need to be avoided, its up to you to make the final judgment call...my opinion is simply to gauge the farriers reaction verses your horses behavior.

Where my mares kick was def. due a good hard smack...your mares behavior might not have been...if the farrier was being to rough then you have every right to discontinue business with him.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

stardust said:


> Another farrier warned me not that long ago that this particular farrier was quite rough with horses and I never thought he was until the other day.


It's all about perspective. 

A girl at our stable was totally bad-mouthing our farrier the other day and saying all sorts of things that my friend and I know are entirely untrue about him. The girl doing the bad-mouthing has never actually used our farrier before. All she did was ask him to look at her horse's feet (for free) and tell her what he thought. Her horse is a bit of a **** on the ground (she either doesn't react when he misbehaves or totally overreacts) and wouldn't let our farrier pick up his feet, so our farrier (who is very blunt) told her that he wasn't going to bother with her horse, especially since he wasn't getting paid to do anything with her horse. 

This is the same farrier who is amazingly willing to work with my two-year-old monster who doesn't like men. He is quick, efficient and does a good job, whether it's just a trim or shoes, even when he's working on an almost 1200lbs two-year-old who hasn't seen a farrier in six months. 

Yet just because he refused to look at this girl's ill-mannered gelding, she started bad-mouthing him to everyone who would listen, even those of us that use him!

So, I guess the point I'm trying to make is always take what other people say about someone else (or their work) with a grain of salt, especially if the person doing the "cautioning" is in the same profession. In my experience, most people in business aren't above bad-mouthing the other guy so that they can get your business.


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## Pidge (Sep 5, 2009)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> So, I guess the point I'm trying to make is always take what other people say about someone else (or their work) with a grain of salt, especially if the person doing the "cautioning" is in the same profession. In my experience, most people in business aren't above bad-mouthing the other guy so that they can get your business.


 
This is also a very valid point. Dont take what anyone else says as fact, use your personal experience with this farrier to create your opinion. If he was rough with your horse, then surprise this guy was right...if he wasnt over rough, then forget what he said. 

Basically, make your own opinions and dont trust those of others...be smart


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

Look at things from your farrier's perspective. He probably has a family to feed. Kids to provide for. Are you going to help with his bills if your horse cripples him? I think not. You're putting your horse's well being above his. I was a farrier for many years, and I was the same way before I began shoeing. Nobody wants to see their horse get hit(even your farrier). 

Maybe it's a $10,000 horse. But that doesn't compare to a $20,000 broken leg. If he risked breaking a $25 rasp, he must have felt threatened by injury. Or he just wanted to stop a potentially bad behavior before it started. 

I don't agree with hitting them on the legs, though. Better to smack one hard on the belly than peck their legs.


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

It depends on the situation. If my stallion (who has SUPERB) manners even pulls once at the farrier I'll give him a quick, hard correction. If I don't notIce it or am working on something else (farrier will usually start on him while I'm catching other horses) he has every right to lay into him for not being a perfect angel. I don't care that he's untied and alone in the dry lot he knows how to behave. In the 3 years I've had him the farrier has only had to correct him twice and that's fine by me. With my mare who wasn't comfortable about her feet being handled when I got her? I forewarned him and he has always been extremely patient with her and forgiving. He expects exactly what I expect. I trust him and his horse skills and have no problem with him reprimanding a horse when needed - as others have said, it's his safety, business, and equipment on the line.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HollyBubbles (Jun 22, 2009)

Would I let my farrier hit my horse? Well, yes. If my horse needs disciplining, then go for it. Discipline and abuse are two very different things.
Would I let him hit my horse with a rasp though? No, I think thats a little over-the-top, if my farrier is hitting my horse with a rasp, or any other tool.. There better be a **** good reason.(eg horse legitimately tries to kill farrier or something)

My farrier, who I have used for just gone 3 years now, is excellent in both his attitude towards my horse and I, and his trimming/shoeing. So I expect my horse and I to be excellent for my farrier. Fairs fair right?

The last time my farrier come out, around 2 weeks ago, Mitch was being a bit of an egg, now I know he was a bit tender on one hoof, but that gave him no excuse to try and kick around. At the time, my farrier was between Mitch's right rear leg, and his flank.. Quite a difficult position if you ask me. Mitch tried doing something, that I actually didnt see for whatever reason (usually I pull him up on behaviour first) and within the space of half a second, my farrier managed to drop the leg, throw the rasp away, and give mitch a good whack in the guts.. And so he should've. My farrier has just recovered from a knee injury, I do not want any of my horses to be responsible for re-aggravating that injury, which took 3 months out of his work the first time.
-Might add that mitch stood well for the rest of the trimming.

Then what happens next? Mini mare decides that rasping a front hoof is a perfect time to rear.. So instead of ignoring it/whacking her, the farrier actually just grabbed her front leg and held her up for half a minute or so, so she couldnt touch the ground again. She then panicked and had that "oh no what do i do" look on her face and was good for the rest of the trimming.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I feel that there is a difference in hitting with the end of the rasp and slapping with the flat side. 
The farrier has the hoof in one hand and the rasp in the other, he does not have a hand free to slap with. 

It would be different if he picked up the rasp for the sole purpose of hitting the horse, but I doubt this happened.


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## stardust (Aug 15, 2010)

I think some of you have misunderstood the point I am trying to make. I don't have a problem with a farrier pulling my mare into line, if she's being an *** then she deserves it. A slap to the stomach or butt is fine by me if she needs it. My problem was my farrier decided to use his file/rasp which to me isn't cool. I understand it's a risky job and I do see things from his point of view, this is why I have no problem with him pulling my horse up in an appropriate way. I thought most of you would agree that using a tool to discipline a horse is over the top and is only going to make the horse fear the farrier which is definitely NOT what I want. Now let me be clear here my horse not once kicked at this farrier, as a matter fact she NEVER kicks at anyone unless it's another horse, she was just being stubborn and wanted to put her hoof down, a firm slap and a "stand up" would have fixed the problem. I myself don't hit my horse with objects, I find it cruel and unnecessary, I will only ever smack her with an open hand and that is good enough for her to get the picture.


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

i'd allow my farrier to use negative reinforcment to correct my horse, but not positive punishment.

both can imply hitting, but the difference is enormous.


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

stardust said:


> My problem was my farrier decided to use his file/rasp which to me isn't cool. I thought most of you would agree that using a tool to discipline a horse is over the top and is only going to make the horse fear the farrier which is definitely NOT what I want. Now let me be clear here my horse not once kicked at this farrier, as a matter fact she NEVER kicks at anyone unless it's another horse, she was just being stubborn and wanted to put her hoof down, a firm slap and a "stand up" would have fixed the problem. I myself don't hit my horse with objects, I find it cruel and unnecessary, I will only ever smack her with an open hand and that is good enough for her to get the picture.


 
Remember in the original post you asked if we thought you were overreacting.We're giving you our opinion on that. Some people aren't going to agree with you......some people are going to disagree just to keep the discussion interesting! It's ok for us to not agree with you. I don't expect everyone to agree with me when I post. I just think the farrier was probably doing some preventative maintanence. He wants to stop undesirable behavior BEFORE it becomes real dangerous. But if your gut's telling you he's too mean, find someone else.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

stardust said:


> My problem was my farrier decided to use his file/rasp which to me isn't cool.


If this is your issue, then I do think you are overreacting. Hitting a horse with the flat side of a rasp is less painful to the horse than using the same amount of force with, say, a crop. The rasp is wide and flat, not nearly as much sting to it as something narrow. An exception would be if the rasp hit on a bony area like the point of the hip. As for him using the rasp rather than his hand, well, his hand was busy holding the rasp. If he dropped the rasp and the horse reacted unexpectedly we would now have a rasp on the floor along with the other tools in the area. 

I would let it go. Personally, I would have been more upset with the "dickhead" comment than the rasp. Rather rude to the owner, IMO.


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

AmazinCaucasian said:


> Look at things from your farrier's perspective. He probably has a family to feed. Kids to provide for. Are you going to help with his bills if your horse cripples him? I think not. You're putting your horse's well being above his. I was a farrier for many years, and I was the same way before I began shoeing. Nobody wants to see their horse get hit(even your farrier).
> 
> Maybe it's a $10,000 horse. But that doesn't compare to a $20,000 broken leg. If he risked breaking a $25 rasp, he must have felt threatened by injury. Or he just wanted to stop a potentially bad behavior before it started.
> 
> I don't agree with hitting them on the legs, though. Better to smack one hard on the belly than peck their legs.


I agree with this. I wouldn't be pleased with my farrier hitting them on the legs, but have zero problem with him correcting them with a quick one to the butt or belly. Their livelihood depends on the behavior of our animals. 

Mine are expected to stand like soldiers. I personally think that an owner should correct a problem before the farrier should need to but sometimes that doesn't happen or is hard to judge just standing there. The farrier is going to be much more in tune to them laying on him or thinking about pulling a hoof away by feel than we as owners can by sight. I can't remember the last time our farrier had to discipline one of mine but he knows he has my complete blessing to do so if needed.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Well said Amazin

Have I let a farrier hit my horse with a file? Yes. Was I upset? Up to this time, it was always warranted. Once, the flat of his very sharp rasp cut rasp pattern in his coat. He deserved it, IMO. Stop it small, and it won't get bigger.

Trust me, If he had "abused" the horse, he would have been fired.


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## HannahFaith (Apr 27, 2011)

My farrier who i have always had and known and used. has worked on VERY expensive race horses, 80% of them being complete **** heads, has always used his rasp (if in hand) to smack their bellies when they lean on him or try to pull their foot away. Mind you he's also an exercise rider at the track, so he's tiny. he has NEVER punished a horse without reason. and at times, its more dangerous for the person holding the horse to correct them than the farrier. say the farrier is holding the front leg, the horse does seomthing bad and i pull on the chain, the horse then reacts by going back pulling his leg out of the farriers hand. not only could it then hit the tools, the stand or my farrier. 

I love my farrier he has always ALWAYS been an amazing help to me. He was even at my wedding. I trust his opinion almost more than any trainer i've ever had. he knows my horse, and horses like mine. He has every right to punish my horse. But he's never taken it out of context. if he has the rasp in his hand he uses that, if he has an open hand he'll use that. but he's not going to drop his tool to simply slap my horse.


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## Coyote (Oct 23, 2010)

Something a lot of people forget about farriers,...if they are nailing in a shoe, not only are they in danger of being harmed, they are in danger of being killed. I know a man who is a volunteer fireman and a farrier on the side. He has told me countless horror stories about other farriers he knew almost dying or actually being killed while shoeing. When the nail goes through the hoof, it sticks out a good ways back towards the farriers thighs. If that horse pulls back on it's hoof it can actually cause the nail to slice open the leg. Quite a few people have died from the femoral artery being sliced open while doing farrier work. They bleed out so quickly, they don't even have time to get out of the barn...

Long story short, a farrier can correct my horse in nearly anyway they want. As long as there is no long lasting physical harm involved for horse or man.


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## Doe (Jun 21, 2011)

Coyote said:


> Something a lot of people forget about farriers,...if they are nailing in a shoe, not only are they in danger of being harmed, they are in danger of being killed. I know a man who is a volunteer fireman and a farrier on the side. He has told me countless horror stories about other farriers he knew almost dying or actually being killed while shoeing. When the nail goes through the hoof, it sticks out a good ways back towards the farriers thighs. If that horse pulls back on it's hoof it can actually cause the nail to slice open the leg. Quite a few people have died from the femoral artery being sliced open while doing farrier work. They bleed out so quickly, they don't even have time to get out of the barn...
> 
> Long story short, a farrier can correct my horse in nearly anyway they want. As long as there is no long lasting physical harm involved for horse or man.


A slip of the knife when trimming the frog or bars can also slice the artery........hence the reason for a) thick leather farrier chaps/apron (these days usually also kevlar reinforced - so nothings going through that!) and b) a full time properly trained farrier not a moonlighter! Don't blame the horse for human stupidity. Properly trained and appropriately kitted no-one needs to die. Surely a fireman should know that better than anyone?


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

I'd like to know how your horse behaved after she was punished for not standing correctly? 


Yes, my farrier does hit my horses on the belly with the rasp. Usually results in the horse standing still. Farriers have a hard job. So if he wants to hit my horse on the belly to make his job easier and thus teach my horse to stand better, then I'm okay with that. I think I'd be a little peeved at the dickhead comment but I'm surrounded by people who curse so I'm immune to it.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I trust my farrier completely and he and I handle horses much the same way so that being made clear to start with, I'll go on with my post.

Whether or not hitting the horse is allowed (with hand, rasp, or even the flat side of the hammer) depends greatly on the horse and the situation. For a green horse that's a bit nervous, hitting is most certainly not the way to solve anything. For the older horses that have been through visits by the farrier for months or years and decide they want to be obnoxious, I permit the farrier to do whatever he deems necessary to ensure his own safety and, if possible, to prevent the action from becoming a habit.

I agree with others though, I wouldn't have liked him hitting the horse on the leg with the rasp. Ribs or butt are okay, legs...not so much.


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

I agree SMROBS and should add that he has never hit my two year old on the belly. And because our newest guy hasn't had his hooves trimmed in a long long time (the gal that we got him from actually said never and he is 3, but his hooves don't look THAT bad) I wouldn't expect him to use that sort of punishment on him either.


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## stardust (Aug 15, 2010)

AmazinCaucasian said:


> Remember in the original post you asked if we thought you were overreacting.We're giving you our opinion on that. Some people aren't going to agree with you......some people are going to disagree just to keep the discussion interesting! It's ok for us to not agree with you. I don't expect everyone to agree with me when I post. I just think the farrier was probably doing some preventative maintanence. He wants to stop undesirable behavior BEFORE it becomes real dangerous. But if your gut's telling you he's too mean, find someone else.


I never said you guys HAD to agree with me. What I said was I THOUGHT you would agree that using a tool to discipline a horse is harsh. I value all of your opinions this is why I asked for them. Maybe I am being a little over protective with my horse, but I seriously don't think her behaviour warranted a whack with a file. You have to understand I have been getting this farrier for well over a year, he knows my horses behaviour very well and he knows she can get stubborn from time to time and he also knows she never shows any aggression towards him. He has not once hit her or called her names, but this day he did. I suppose I was ****ed with his overall attitude as well as the whacking. You see I had used a different farrier the time before this one to get my mare's hooves filed and I think it has gotten back to my regular farrier. So when he arrived this time his overall attitude was quite abrupt, even borderline rude. It was almost like my mare sensed that as well because as he approached her she turned to walk away from him which she never does! Call me paranoid but that's how it seemed to me. After he he whacked her in the gut with his file he finished filing and went to her other side and said, "ok, now we'll give you whack up the guts on this side", which again I don't think was necessary. He didn't whack her again but still just him saying it offended me. I guess I'm taken back by it because he has never been this way towards her, he is usually patient and when she does act like a cow he'll just hang on to her leg and tell her to "get up!" in a loud firm voice which responds to. Maybe I am being over the top though? But I think I will choose to use a different farrier.


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## stardust (Aug 15, 2010)

ShutUpJoe said:


> I'd like to know how your horse behaved after she was punished for not standing correctly?
> 
> 
> Yes, my farrier does hit my horses on the belly with the rasp. Usually results in the horse standing still. Farriers have a hard job. So if he wants to hit my horse on the belly to make his job easier and thus teach my horse to stand better, then I'm okay with that. I think I'd be a little peeved at the dickhead comment but I'm surrounded by people who curse so I'm immune to it.


After he whacked her one she stood there at first kind of shocked but then was very edgy and looked nervous. Immediately after he put put her last hoof down she started pulling on her lead rope where I then had to give her a firm yank on the rope and tell her off which she then stopped. Once I let her off her rope she took off bolting down the hill and bucked like she was ****ed. She never does this any other time.

Oh I was annoyed with the "dickhead" comment. I'm no angel, I swear myself but I was offended he called her a dickhead because she is far from it. I found it quite rude actually.


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

It does seem like he was a little out of hand. Maybe instead of changing, if you like his work, you should discuss this with him?


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

stardust said:


> After he he whacked her in the gut with his file he finished filing and went to her other side and said, "ok, now we'll give you whack up the guts on this side", which again I don't think was necessary.



Well I honestly feel that this was on you to correct, you should have said, 'can you wait until she does something wrong before threatening' or whatever would be natural to you. 
To stand there and not address something you are unhappy with, is frankly on you. As I would take silence as you having no problem with it. 

As far as the bucking when she ran off, that's just a reaction to her getting back to doing whatever she wanted to do, and is completely natural.


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## stardust (Aug 15, 2010)

AlexS said:


> Well I honestly feel that this was on you to correct, you should have said, 'can you wait until she does something wrong before threatening' or whatever would be natural to you.
> To stand there and not address something you are unhappy with, is frankly on you. As I would take silence as you having no problem with it.
> 
> As far as the bucking when she ran off, that's just a reaction to her getting back to doing whatever she wanted to do, and is completely natural.


As I stated before, I was TAKEN BACK by how he behaved and when I got home I regretted not saying something to him which is why I am choosing to use a different farrier. I'm sure you have had circumstances where someone has taken you by surprise. I really don't appreciate you claiming this was on me, frankly I think your being rude. As for your bucking comment, you don't know my horse so for you to claim this is completely natural for her is really not your call. I've owned her for 4 years and this is not something she does.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

You need to calm down a little. 

In my second post in this thread, I said it is clear that you are upset about this, so go ahead and get a different farrier. 
As you have already done this, and are clearly unhappy about the way this guy behaved, I wonder what the point of this conversation is? Especially if you are going to freak if someone doesn't agree with you. 

I am sorry you found me to be rude, that was not my intention. However in your first post you asked if you were over reacting, I believe you are. However your horse, your money to hire whoever you please, go ahead.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I think the farrier lost his temper.

I trim my own horses. Have I ever whacked them? Rarely. With a rasp? Maybe once, on the butt. It did nothing to help the horse behave. I simply lost my temper. I think the farrier did too, hence the "dickhead" comment.

I personally would have been mad if a so-called professional farrier whacked my horse with a rasp, especially on the leg! I don't think there is any excuse for his un-professionalism, baring an aggressive horse kicking at him or something like that. But trying to pull the foot away? It happens all the time. He must hit horses with his rasp all the time if that is the correction for trying to pull the foot away. 

It could have been handled differently. I have seen farriers use a piece of baling twine under the gums (similar to a lip chain) to get the horse's attention, and it worked and wasn't violent. More of a little tug like "hey listen up here." No hitting the horse with tools. 

Also, if room were available the farrier could back the horse up aggressively if it jerked it's foot away. You know, like a moment of ground work to show the horse he's serious?

I say the farrier lost his temper and was unprofessional.


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## stardust (Aug 15, 2010)

AlexS said:


> You need to calm down a little.
> 
> In my second post in this thread, I said it is clear that you are upset about this, so go ahead and get a different farrier.
> As you have already done this, and are clearly unhappy about the way this guy behaved, I wonder what the point of this conversation is? Especially if you are going to freak if someone doesn't agree with you.
> ...


I am calm. I just think you were being borderline rude by claiming it was my fault that this happened and that it's normal for my horse to run off bucking when you don't know the horse.

I haven't freaked out at anyone over their opinions, I disagreed with them, yes, but freaked at them? No. I just wanted to see what others thought was the right way for a farrier to discipline their horse or if they allow them to at all. And yes, I did ask if I was overreacting and I am fine if you think I am. However, that doesn't mean I'm going to agree, I just wanted others perspectives. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, I mean heck I asked for them! I welcome everyone's opinions whether they agree or disagree with me, that's the whole point of this post. But you come across as quite rude with your last comment even though that may not have been your intention. I appreciate your apology though.


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## Monty77 (Aug 8, 2011)

The majority of horse people will smack their horse from time to time. And if the mare was getting a little fidgetty I'd say that it would be okay to flick her in the shoulder, but if he started hitting her in the leg and stomach over little things I'd say that HE is over reacting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

It is the owner's responsibility to insure that your horse is trained and will stand properly. A farrier should not have to be your trainer -- he does not get paid for that.

If an owner cannot teach their horse to keep their feet up and make it easy on the farrier, he probably gets fed up with having to wrestle a horse that weighs 6 or 8 times more than he.

So, "Yes!", I would say you over-reacted. I think you have a tendency to treat your horse as a 'baby' and an 'equal' to a person instead of a huge animal that needs good manners so they do not injure someone. 

As a profession, a farrier has one of the hardest jobs out there. I would judge him totally on how good a job he does as a farrier and if he is very good at it, I would try to get my horse to stand better and would keep him.

For those of you that have farriers that are willing to take the time to teach young horses to stand good, remember him at Christmas time and give him an extra $20.00 bill on the days that he takes his time to train on your horse. He deserves it.


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

I have a good friend that lived in Oklahoma. He said the farriers there didn't let the owners watch. They expected the horses to be tied up and ready or at least penned up and easy to catch. This was every farrier's policy, so the owners couldn't just call somebody else unless they wanted to pay more to get someone out of the area to shoe for them. It may sound harsh, but I'm sure it eliminated any disputes.

Cherie, you're from Oklahoma, have you heard this?


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

That is news to me. I have never had a farrier that did not expect me to be there and hold the horse for him. Was that at a boarding stable maybe???

I do know a couple of farriers that refused to go to some barns because they said the owners were idiots. One told me about an Arabian barn owner that gave the horses a treat every time they jerked their foot away from him. He tried to explain that she was rewarding the bad behavior and needed to be disciplined instead. The lady gave the horse another treat when it misbehaved and he packed up his stuff and drove off in the middle of doing the horse. He was still mad when he got to my house. 

This is pretty much 'cowboy country'. Horses are expected to be well behaved. Cowboys do not 'baby' horses. They train them to stand good and expect that out of them every time they are handled.


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## stardust (Aug 15, 2010)

Cherie said:


> So, "Yes!", I would say you over-reacted. I think you have a tendency to treat your horse as a 'baby' and an 'equal' to a person instead of a huge animal that needs good manners so they do not injure someone.


Guilty as charged. I think I do baby my horse more then I should which is probably something I have to work on. I just had a really hard time watching her being whacked with a rasp and called a dickhead, it's something I'm not use to. Don't get me wrong I discipline my mare when she needs it, I'll give her a good smack on the shoulder, butt or belly when she's being a fool but I could never use a tool to hit her with.


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## stardust (Aug 15, 2010)

trailhorserider said:


> I think the farrier lost his temper.
> 
> I trim my own horses. Have I ever whacked them? Rarely. With a rasp? Maybe once, on the butt. It did nothing to help the horse behave. I simply lost my temper. I think the farrier did too, hence the "dickhead" comment.
> 
> ...


Amen to that! I couldn't agree with you more. Yes, she needed to be disciplined but he handled it, as you said, in a totally unprofessional way. I would have been more then happy for him to give her a moments worth of ground work to show her whos boss. I think that would have worked alot better (and actually taught her better) rather then whacking her with a rasp, which I actually think frightened her more then anything.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

stardust said:


> I would have been more then happy for him to give her a moments worth of ground work to show her whos boss. I think that would have worked alot better (and actually taught her better) rather then whacking her with a rasp, which I actually think frightened her more then anything.


 Would you be willing to wait for your farrier being two hours late if the horses he is trimming need ground work to show them who is boss? Is your farrier willing to only see his children during their sleeping hours or on a Sunday because owners need to do this? 
Are you willing to pay your farrier double his going rate to cover his time while you do this? What happens if he is putting on a shoe and does not have a nail secured while your horse is pulling away? Are you going to work your horse with a loose nail? Would you allow the horse to put its foot down if it could be hurt by the nail? 



stardust said:


> that it's normal for my horse to run off bucking when you don't know the horse.


So your horse behaves differently from every other horse ever born? 


I believe your horse was not 'frightened' and was just a little taken aback with someone taking control of a situation rather than soothing it.


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## stardust (Aug 15, 2010)

AlexS said:


> Would you be willing to wait for your farrier being two hours late if the horses he is trimming need ground work to show them who is boss? Is your farrier willing to only see his children during their sleeping hours or on a Sunday because owners need to do this?
> Are you willing to pay your farrier double his going rate to cover his time while you do this? What happens if he is putting on a shoe and does not have a nail secured while your horse is pulling away? Are you going to work your horse with a loose nail? Would you allow the horse to put its foot down if it could be hurt by the nail?
> 
> 
> ...


Again with the rudeness. I didn't say I expect him to do ground work with her everytime she's being a cow, that is ONE way he COULD have handled it and I would have been fine with it. There are many ways he could have gone about it without using a tool to hit her. As I have stated a million frikken times I expected him to discipline her differently rather then with a rasp. Why don't you get that? 

[email protected] my horse being different to every other horse born. Ok, so um your horse runs off bucking like a nut everytime you set it loose does it? That may be normal for YOUR horse, but I'm telling you sweetheart my horse does not behave like that unless she is ****ed. So again don't assume you know my horse.

As for you thinking my horse wasn't frightened, again you weren't there to witness it, so how would you know how she was reacting?

You say I'm freaking at people who disagree with me? Geez nearly every comment I've made your at me with your know it all attitude. Give it a rest.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

stardust said:


> Give it a rest.


Sure thing, as clearly you can't take an opinion that differs from your own. You seriously expect your farrier to do ground work with your horse? 

Good luck find a farrier that meets your criteria.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

There is no excuse, ever ever ever, to hit a horse with a metal object (or really anything) on the lower legs. The cannon bone is extremely sensitive and totally unprotected. Wouldn't take a whole lot to cause a fracture, really. Hitting with a rasp in general is just overly harsh and largely unnecessary, too. And the foul language, while it doesn't hurt the horse, is very unprofessional and crude.

My farrier now is extremely good with horses, and after seeing his standard, there's no reason to ever accept less, that I can see. I've seen him trim some real doozies. He doesn't beat them. He doesn't lay into them with a metal weapon. He cups his hand and pops them in the belly--he's showed me and explained it to me many times. It causes absolutely no damage, but it hurts and startles sufficiently to get the job done. And when a horse is really bad, he'll have the handler twitch it. The end. There's no need for any more, there's no need to brutalize a horse, and there's certainly no need to risk lasting damage by cracking an unprotected leg bone.


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## stardust (Aug 15, 2010)

I can't take an opinion? I've taken everyone's opinions darlin, besides yours. Opinions are fine by me, however rudeness is not. Clearly you don't know the difference. As a matter of fact I have a friend in a different state with a young horse that doesn't like to cooperate with the farrier who inturn will do some ground work with him. So nonexistent? I think not. My criteria isn't that big really, a farrier who is kind, patient and professional - am I asking for alot? No, no I don't believe I am.


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## goodhrs (Dec 30, 2009)

AlexS said:


> Yes I do think that you are over reacting. If he beat your horse, then change farriers, but just a little whack is fine. I believe he has a right to do this, an injury to him is weeks without work and loss of income and potential loss of clients.


 I agree, I have seen farriers get their fingers ripped wide open and need stitches from horse pulling their feet wanting to set them down while they still have unfinished nails sticking out, they can also cut up the inside of there other leg doing this. It isnt a farrier's responsibilty to teach someones horse to stand quietly to be worked with. Our farrier wont even do horses that are jerks. He says it isnt worth him trying to work the next day being sore and stoved up from being jerked and slammed around.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I am rude? Please quote my posts where I have been insulting to you or called you names? Here are a few of yours. 




stardust said:


> I'm telling you sweetheart





stardust said:


> I've taken everyone's opinions darlin, besides yours.


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## coffeegod (May 6, 2011)

Having just torn up my membership card in the Unicorn Farts & Rainbow Spit Horse club, I can tell you the farrier's action has far greater impact on you, stardust, than your horse. 

You have a choice: Talk to the farrier, let him know how you felt about the correction and go from there 

OR 

find another farrier.

I don't think he did anything wrong, even the name calling part. Working on horse hooves is a backbreaking way to earn a living. I watched my horse lift the farrier bodily off the ground with a front leg. While I may not have corrected Hugo's behavior like the farrier did, I didn't interfere with the correction. Hugo needs to learn how to stand for the farrier because he is a ginormous horse and very very strong.


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## whitetrashwarmblood (Aug 24, 2008)

I have never seen my current farrier hit a horse. He's a quiet, super patient guy though. I work at the stable he trims/shoes at, and I've seen him trim and shoe really naughty horses without him even raising his voice. At that point though, we twitch the horse.

I agree that the owner of the horse should teach them to be quiet and stand properly for the farrier. Unfortunately, I don't get paid enough to teach boarder's horses to stand quietly. 

I've had farriers in the past hit Athena's belly or shoulder with the rasp. What bothers me is when the farrier goes overboard, and hits them constantly or starts slapping/hitting the horse in the face. That just makes everything worse.


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

Cherie said:


> That is news to me. I have never had a farrier that did not expect me to be there and hold the horse for him. Was that at a boarding stable maybe???
> 
> I do know a couple of farriers that refused to go to some barns because they said the owners were idiots. One told me about an Arabian barn owner that gave the horses a treat every time they jerked their foot away from him. He tried to explain that she was rewarding the bad behavior and needed to be disciplined instead. The lady gave the horse another treat when it misbehaved and he packed up his stuff and drove off in the middle of doing the horse. He was still mad when he got to my house.
> 
> This is pretty much 'cowboy country'. Horses are expected to be well behaved. Cowboys do not 'baby' horses. They train them to stand good and expect that out of them every time they are handled.


No my buddy was foreman at a cow ranch that got sold, I can find out where next time I see him. They had several good seasoned geldings that were good to shoe. He said one day the farrier was there working and my friend had to get a bridle out of the barn. He knew the rules, but went in anyway. The shoer looked up at him real bug-eyed and asked "What the hell you doin' here?" He said "I"m just passing through to get a bridle, it'll just take a second". He told me the farrier stared him down until he left. Later the man told him something I've experienced shoeing; you just deal with so many ignorant people that you don't want them around. Since this was a working cow operation, there were times they needed in the barn. So they went through several shoers and all of them had the same policy: Be somewhere else when I get there.


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## jumanji321 (Dec 1, 2010)

If it makes you feel better, the worst thing I know of happening, was a farrier hitting a horse in the head with a hammer. I was on the property when it happened along with several other people.


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## stardust (Aug 15, 2010)

AlexS said:


> I am rude? Please quote my posts where I have been insulting to you or called you names? Here are a few of yours.


LOL I didn't know calling someone "sweetheart" or "darlin" was name calling. My bad. Anyway enough with this nonsense I'm not going to play this tit for tat BS with you. You were rude and blunt simple as that with a know it all attitude. There have been many others who disagreed with me and I am perfectly fine with that, I asked for their opinions. You however came across in a way like you were attacking my comments and that is something I will not tolerate. End of conversation.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

AmazinCaucasian said:


> I have a good friend that lived in Oklahoma. He said the farriers there didn't let the owners watch. They expected the horses to be tied up and ready or at least penned up and easy to catch.


This would absolutely, positively not fly with me. The latter part--about the farrier not having to catch the horse--that's common sense, I'd hope, but then I guess some people do expect the farrier to do all that, and if the farrier is cool with that, then fine, I guess. So long as it's a small paddock and an easy-to-catch horse, though I always either catch mine or have them in stalls when the farrier comes. True it's not at all a farrier's job to chase a horse willy-nilly through a brushy pasture.

But the farrier not letting me stand by? Hell no, on so many levels.

1. I want to supervise the job that is being done. While I'm no farrier myself by a longshot, I am an educated owner who strives to learn as much as possible about hooves and proper (therapeutic) shoeing. You better believe I'm going to be standing right there, asking questions, explaining what I want, telling about problems I've been having, asking for suggestions for how to fix said problems, etc. This makes it sound like I'm pushy and ignorant, but that's not how it works. I truly believe my farrier appreciates the sounding board. He's the expert, of course, but we decide on a course of action together based on our composite knowledge of the horse, the situation, and what we've tried in the past.

2. I want to be there to help, if possible. My horses are all well mannered--yes, that is my responsibility to have trained them to behave in such a way. If they do, for some strange reason, act up, I want to be there to know about it. That lets me know what I need to work on with them in the future, it allows me to correct them at the time if appropriate, and it also keeps the farrier safe. It's just asking for a lawsuit to turn your farrier loose on horses with questionable disposition, then leave him lying there with a fractured skull for a couple hours while you run out and get Subway and drop that package off at the post office. Oops.

3. I want to know what the hell my farrier is doing to me horse. I trust my excellent farrier now, and I trust my horses, and I will leave them alone with occasional check-ins. But that's only because that trust has been built up. I've got too many friends with too many horror stories of rounding the corner to discover the farrier beating the tar out of their horse. First off, there's no excuse for a full-out horsewhipping, regardless of how badly the horse behaved--it doesn't teach them anything that a good wallop won't. And second, just because someone is a farrier, it doesn't mean they're a good horseman and a good trainer, and they may absolutely be blowing a small transgression out of proportion and hurting the horse for what honestly could have been an accident; he lost his balance, say. Not cool. My old farrier, at the boarding barn, was one such poor horseman. I don't know that he ever whupped on my horses (it was one of those unfortunate situations when I could not be present for shoeing), but nearly every time at least one of them pulled back and broke a halter or lead rope. Why? My horses know how to stand tied. They don't pull back for the current farrier. That guy must have been doing something to upset them....


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

After reading all your subsequent responses on what the farrier did, Stardust, I'm wondering if maybe your farrier was just having an off day and (mistakenly) took it out on your mare. After all, farriers are human to and are subject to the same mood swings and such as anyone else. I'm not saying what he did was necessarily okay (I wouldn't say a smack with the flat side of a rasp on the belly is abuse...smacking her on the leg wasn't such a good idea, though), but he may have had serious issues with the horses he worked on before yours and was just fed up with the nonsense (however small it might have been), or he may have gotten a phone call from someone that upset him and caused him to be a little more reactive than normal. The fact that this is the first time he's ever done something like this makes me think it was just an off day.

If I were you, I wouldn't run away and use a different farrier just because of one incident. That will leave a bad taste in your current farrier's mouth and he'll be more likely to talk bad about you to other farriers if you do so (as I said, they're human too, so it's bound to happen). Here's what I'd do: I'd call your farrier and talk to him about what happened. Ask him if he was just having an off day or what caused him to react the way he did. Talk it through with him. He'll respect you a lot more if you do decide to go with a different farrier and you'll feel better knowing exactly why he reacted the way he did. And don't think he won't remember what happened. My farrier still remembers trims he did on my old gelding (from over a year ago) and problems he had with other horses at the same barn (my friend's arab mare who completely FREAKED for no apparent reason, for example). Do the adult thing and talk to him about it. You'll feel better, I can almost guarantee it.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

I agree with Smrobs, it completely depends on the situation.

All those who are saying that it is the farriers safety at risk, I agree - BUT. Sometime's it is far more dangerous to hit a horse you don't know.

An old farrier was doing my horse who was super sensitive to flys. He had been doing this horse for at least a year and he usually stood really well. This day it was HOT and he was twitching as the flies bit him. The farrier dug him in the ribs with his rasp to try and get him to stand still - Bad decision. The horse flew forwards, tipped over the tool bucket, and kicked him in the thigh. He did need time off work - but as a result of him digging the horse in the ribs. I could have told him had he asked that this horse when threatened does NOT back down but will get aggressive. We changed farriers after that - he was a good farrier but did not click with that horse and it wasn't worth his safety or the horses patience to persist.

My current farrier is AWESOME. Latte is a handfull sometimes. I can pick up her feet 100% fine. Just about everybody I know can. I honestly don't know how I can get her better. However she just loses it a bit with the farrier. She freezes and doesn't want to pick her foot up, and sometimes pulls it away or leans. He is so patient with her, will take her lead and if he needs to, work her a little to get her to loosen up. She is getting better each time and only mucked up on one back leg last time. He does our 5 horses who all stand well apart from her. She is another horse who would go mental if he hit her with anything - Luckily he never has.


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## Doe (Jun 21, 2011)

Slightly off the subject but I'm amazed anyone would use a rasp. All I can say is these guys obviously need to invest in new rasps. Proper rasps should be razor sharp and you keep the old ones for filing down nails etc. If you hit a horse with a correctly sharpened rasp there is no way you couldn't take the skin off.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Doe said:


> Slightly off the subject but I'm amazed anyone would use a rasp. All I can say is these guys obviously need to invest in new rasps. Proper rasps should be razor sharp and you keep the old ones for filing down nails etc. If you hit a horse with a correctly sharpened rasp there is no way you couldn't take the skin off.


Hmmm. I have seen the flat side used many times and it usually corrects the issue the owner refuses to address. One smack-done. I have NEVER seen it injure a horse. It is a quick smack. They are not rubbing it one the horse? The little teeth on a rasp are not long enough to pucture the skin either if that is what you are getting at?

Stardust-sorry, I am with Alex on this one. And I also would find the "darlin' and "sweetheart" extremely patronizing and condescending. (offensive, just to translate for you.) But I think that it may speak to the issue. It is most likely how you also address your horse, which would tell me that perhaps respect is an issue, and that was what the farrier was addressing. JMHO.


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## Doe (Jun 21, 2011)

franknbeans said:


> Hmmm. I have seen the flat side used many times and it usually corrects the issue the owner refuses to address. One smack-done. I have NEVER seen it injure a horse. It is a quick smack. They are not rubbing it one the horse? The little teeth on a rasp are not long enough to pucture the skin either if that is what you are getting at?.


hi Franknbeans, no offence intended or aimed at you but that is not correct. The most popular and commonly used brand of rasp has two flat sides. The one is the coarse side used for shifting large amounts of hoof roughly, and the other side is the finishing side. They are and should both be razor sharp. Just a slight glance is enough to remove hair and skin. A 'whack' would be enough to go cause a graze and bleeding through a pair of jeans. If it doesn't then they are using blunt rasps (as I do see quite often). There is a reason one should not use blunt rasps. You can tell by the sound (as you also an when incorrect technique is used) this can also be a contributing factor to the horse fidgeting.

I find it very amusing that people judge farriers good or bad whilst actually knowing very little of what makes a good or a bad shoeing. I hear people talk all the time of how great their farrier is and how this other farrier lames horses. Talk to someone else and that same farrier is great and the other farrier is terrible. Ask them on what they base their judgement and its nearly always anecdotal evidence with little basis in objective judgement of the end result.

Instead judgement of a farrier (in terms of the product) should be based on the treatment of the hoof principally. How do they assess and achieve balance? Do they rely heavily on outdated techniques such as dubbing the toe. Do they shape the shoe to the hoof or the hoof to the shoe, etc etc.


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

Of course! 

The OPs opinion on whether her horse was bad enough to deserve the whack is null and void. OF COURSE the horse owner is going to say the horse wasn't that bad, but the farrier is on the other end of the horse and may see things VERY differently!!!!!

Our farrier whacks my horses if they need it....and I step out of my "protecting my horses" bubble and look at it objectively....and maturely!

And it is immature to expect those who work with your horse to risk injury or worse just because YOU think a whack or two is life threatening or abusive.

What I DO have a problem with in regards to your farrier is the use of "dickhead". Ummm....i find that unprofessional and offensive. VERY offensive. VERY unprofessional. Not to mention disrespectful to both you and your horse. Your horse HAS a name, the farrier should use it. YOU should not have to hear offensive language from someone. Especially if you are a female. Men say things to other men that it is just plain improper to say to a LADY. And if you are a female, saying sexually offensive words in front of you is disrespect.


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## Prinella (Jul 12, 2011)

To me it sounds like the Farrier was having a bad day if the behavior was out of character. 

Whilst I would not approve of the farrier hitting my girls on the legs. I have no issues with him disciplining as needed. Ella is more then capable of being a horrible brat when he started with her there were a few days she copped a good hard whack even a 'punch' in the nose when she swung her head around to bite him.

She now stands quite well for him i did say quite.... She gets cranky once he gets to the last foot , like i said she's a ****, these days that means she trys to pull it off him. In the beginning he would get quite frustrated put the foot down walk away then come back, he also gave me a couple of lectures about doing more with her. which i completely deserved. 

I do think you need to talk to him or if you find you can try once more with him if he does anything you don't like again mention it to him. BUT as others have said farriers need to protect themselves and are not your trainers, make sure you're looking at the big picture


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

I have to laugh at the offense of him calling your horse a "dickhead". I can understand it from a thinking it is unprofessional point of view, but to actually be offended that he called her a "dickhead".

Am I the only one who calls my horses far worse than that if they are acting up?

As far as a farrier hitting my horse, they never have and never will. Not because I won't let them, but because *I* take on the duty of keeping my horses in line. If they cross it I correct them. Most of the time before the farrier is even concerned. It is all about reading the body language and stepping in *before* the farrier feels the need to hit the horse. 

If your horse was at the point of physically taking her foot back then you let it get to far and I think your farrier was well within his rights to protect himself.

My farrier was just recently trimming someone's stallion. He was doing the back feet when said stallion decided to lift his leg straight up in an effort to snatch it from the farrier. Farrier was pinned between foot/leg and flank. He wound up with 3 cracked ribs. 

Things can go so wrong so fast with horses. It is 100% up to the handler to correct the slightest misbehaviour. And expecting your farrier to "groundwork" your horse is downright rude in my opinion. If your farrier is anything like mine his days are packed. He does not have time to pussyfoot around with your horse because you choose to treat her like a princess.


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

HowClever said:


> I have to laugh at the offense of him calling your horse a "dickhead". I can understand it from a thinking it is unprofessional point of view, but to actually be offended that he called her a "dickhead".


Why would any LADY not find a man she only knows from a professional standpoint speaking to her of a penis offensive?

I do not appreciate nor expect that men i know only in passing speak to me of male anatomy.

And a "dickhead" is indeed male anatomy.


If you do not find that offensive, then bully for you. But MY horse is not a penis' head, nor do I need to have words of a sexual nature spoken to me by random men.

Would you not be offended if a man drove by while you are crossing a street and said "get out of the way, vagina"? 

would you not be offended if someone said your horse was a penis? 

if you want to call yourself a vagina, or your horse a penis, that's fine....though bizarre...but to have a stranger do so is unacceptable.

My sense of moral decency finds this offensive. If yours does not....

ahem!

And what YOU say to YOUR horse is different than having a male professional calling your horse an obscene name, and saying so in front of a female... 

a man that would do so is disrespecting you and your horse....


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

No need to imply that I am not a lady, thanks. Sounds like by your standards I am not. I am no more offended by words describing male anatomy than I am by words describing my big toe.


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## Doe (Jun 21, 2011)

This is the problem with this type of post though, that we see quite often, always with the same responses. It depends.......

Yes it should be down to the owner to prepare the horse before the farrier ever goes near it.

Yes it should be down to the owner to intervene or interrupt inappropriate behaviour from the horse (and farrier).

How do you correct a horse in pain, lacking balance or simply getting tired though? There are many reasons besides impatience and brattish behaviour for wanting a leg back. Unfortunately few 'farriers' receive any training in how to correctly feel and hold a leg to allow the horse the most comfort and the best way to get the job done for all concerned.

Here in the UK we supposedly have the highest level of farrier training in the world. Yet they MAY see a hoof dissection once, certainly never perform one, and most of the time is spent on blacksmithing not understanding the hoof structures or horse handling. Certainly there are newer farrier texts at last that have more focus on correct hoof balance but these are still entirely optional.

As for the OP's farrier, if he or anyone feels the need to cuss at the horse, then I would argue at that moment they lacked the self-control or patience to be working with the horse. As soon as any emotion such as anger or frustration kicks in, it is unlikely that the correction is neutral or objective.

As for farriers have a hard job, sorry that doesn't wash with me. Nobody makes them do it. If they don't like it or don't wish to do it properly then get another job. 

Having said that I have a responsibility to both the farrier and the horse.
I do not expect nor allow my horses to hit, bite or pull anyone else. They will be and are prepared before anyone else works with or near them. I will judge their demeanour and intervene as necessary. If the horse needs correction he will get it. Equally if a vet or a farrier/trimmer is causing the issue I will correct them too. I will not tolerate anyone else striking my horse. If they feel it necessary then either they are in the wrong, or I have made an error.


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## rlcarnes (Jul 12, 2011)

Being the wife and Sister -in law to two farriers I know first hand what it looks like at the end of the day for the farrier who had to deal with some good and some bad horses all day long. I totally agree just pulling on your mares halter is not a correction. Tell her no and yank on it. it won't hurt her and you are way over reacting. Do you know what kind of toll it takes on a persons back when they have to stand on their head for 10 hours a day? It is a farrier like the one that you fired that will keep your horse standing good for the farrier. (BTW pulling up on the halter will just make her stamp her foot harder.) It is NOT the farrier/vet or anyone elses job to keep your horse standing still. It is your job as the owner to make sure that your horse stands quietly. Just remember that horses will kick each other with both back legs as hard as they can and most of the time they will just make an "umph" sound and then go back to their business. Horses take hide off of each other if they play rough and they still are fine. 

My horse that we just had to put down was horrible for the farrier until I met my now husband. My husband has a 3 inch scar on the back of his calf from when my horse reared and tried to be an idiot while he was getting shoes. hubby pretty near beat the snot out of him and then my horse was like "Oh you want me to stand.... ok". Since then he never moved for vet or trimming. 

Your horse may not be as perfect as you thing for standing when she gets her feet done either. I though my horse (mentioned above) was good after the shoeing incident. What I didn't realize was that he leaned ever so slightly and when getting his back feet done he would pull his leg into his body crushing the farrier. There is no correction for this and it is very painful for who ever is doing the trimming. It is invisible he looks like he is standing perfectly still and being good when in reality he is being a little snot. 

So before you go firing your farrier just remember that if you fire one just because he corrected your horse when you didn't, doesn't make him a bad person or animal abuser. I don't know if there are a lot of good farriers in your area but here there is not so if you have a good one keep it even if he/ she is a little rough with your horse..if not pretty soon you will have gone though all the good ones and you'll be left with sub par work and your horse will go lame. Farriers talk too, they know who to watch out for and you might not be able to get him back if you need him.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Doe said:


> How do you correct a horse in pain, lacking balance or simply getting tired though? There are many reasons besides impatience and brattish behaviour for wanting a leg back. Unfortunately few 'farriers' receive any training in how to correctly feel and hold a leg to allow the horse the most comfort and the best way to get the job done for all concerned.
> 
> *As for the OP's farrier, if he or anyone feels the need to cuss at the horse, then I would argue at that moment they lacked the self-control or patience to be working with the horse. As soon as any emotion such as anger or frustration kicks in, it is unlikely that the correction is neutral or objective.*


As for the first part, again that is entirely on the owner I'm afraid. If you know the horse is misbehaving due to pain then YOU need to say "hey, mate can you just hold his leg a little lower/higher/to the left/etc etc, he's hurting a bit"

If the horse is unbalanced the owner should be able to say that and say "hold up a sec, let me just shift that foot, that will make it easier for him to stand".

Tired? Of what? Standing for the farrier? Too bloody bad. Not an excuse to misbehave as far as I am concerned.

And to the bolded. So when my horse acts like an idiot for something he has done a million times before and I respond with "Oh Rex, you're a dickhead, stand up and quit acting like a lunatic", I am automatically not fit to work with horses. 

Will have to keep that in mind. Obviously, the well mannered, willing and content horses in my paddocks are not truly what they seem.


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

HowClever said:


> No need to imply that I am not a lady, thanks. Sounds like by your standards I am not. I am no more offended by words describing male anatomy than I am by words describing my big toe.


 
Then if I call you vagina, I hope you don't mind. lol

My "problem" with your statement is that you laugh at those whose sense of decency is more intense than yours....My "problem" is not that random men are allowed to call you or your horse a "dickhead". If you like that kind of talk...well, ok 

Why is it, I would wonder, that you find the need to mock others.......... If i find some man calling my horse a penis offensive and you do not, why should you act like a tramp and find that something you need to laugh at? 

why not just respect that some people have different views of what is acceptable and what isnt'. .... mocking is not necessary and only shows a low character .....


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Beauseant said:


> Then if I call you vagina, I hope you don't mind. lol
> 
> My "problem" with your statement is that you laugh at those whose sense of decency is more intense than yours....not that random men are allowed to call you or your horse a "dickhead". If you like that kind of talk...well, ok
> 
> ...


Call me what you like.

It does amuse me that people get so offended over nothing but words. To each their own. I do get the feeling that the OP is not offended by the sexual nature, nor even the words used. I honestly think her nose is out of joint because the farrier dared "insult" her horse.

I find it interesting that instead of responding in an objective manner you have resorted to calling me a "tramp" and insulting my character.


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

Doe said:


> .
> 
> As for the OP's farrier, if he or anyone feels the need to cuss at the horse, then I would argue at that moment they lacked the self-control or patience to be working with the horse.


Exactly! vulgarity is unacceptable .


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## rlcarnes (Jul 12, 2011)

Ummm isn't this thread about a woman who was upset about her farrier hitting her horse? I'm just saying if you want to go back and fourth with each other this forum has private messaging


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

HowClever said:


> I find it interesting that instead of responding in an objective manner you have resorted to calling me a "tramp" and insulting my character.


Anyone who mocks and laughs at another's sense of morality because it is of a different level than theirs is insulting themselves.

GROW UP, accept that people have varying degrees of morality(and I have stated mine) and accept it gracefully.....not respond "I find it funny" or "it makes me laugh"...that is childish and in doing so, you insult YOUR OWN character.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Beauseant said:


> GROW UP, accept that people have varying degrees of morality(and I have stated mine) and accept it gracefully.....


I suggest you do the same.


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

rlcarnes said:


> Ummm isn't this thread about a woman who was upset about her farrier hitting her horse? I'm just saying if you want to go back and fourth with each other this forum has private messaging


 
I don't want to go back and forth with Miss Clever at all....and only stated that rather than the me being upset by a whack to my horse, I would be upset by the vulgarity the farrier used in my presence.

She stated vulgarity does not upset her and find me funny. Glad I could make her laugh, but my statement was not to her, nor did I invite her mocking comments. 

Obviously, said poster likes and accepts vugarity and finds it funny others do not.

Time to grow up and accept others views without mocking.


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Amen to you rlcarnes! I am a girlfriend of a farrier. I've seen horses that can severely hurt him. These horses weren't doing this out of fear but out of disrespect. I wholeheartedly agree with rl on the responsibility being put on the owner. The farrier is not the trainer too. Shouldn't be. If that is what you want, expect to pay more! Farriers/vets are there to do a job asked of them and if it becomes unsafe and the owner can't control the situation, I truly think a smack should instantly be given. Its obvious to me the farrier had a rasp in his hand and that just became a tool (like any other thing you use) for discipline. It had to be quick and a necessary evil.

No one wants their "baby" hurt, but in the same token, do you want your "baby" to think their disrespect is ok if it is not addressed? Even if you think by pulling on the halter is a reprimand, it may not be hard enough. As rl stated, horses hurt each other WAY worse than a smack by a rasp. Your horse is alive and with more work on your part this horse will be better behaved for the next farrier. If you get lucky enough to find another. 

As for stardust attacking Alex, and yes attacking, Alex did nothing wrong. She stated her opinion as did everyone else and was Not rude. You were upset because she didn't Agree with you on you overreacting. You asked, she answered. So next time don't ask something like that if you aren't ready for the opinions of others!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Doe (Jun 21, 2011)

HowClever said:


> As for the first part, again that is entirely on the owner I'm afraid. If you know the horse is misbehaving due to pain then YOU need to say "hey, mate can you just hold his leg a little lower/higher/to the left/etc etc, he's hurting a bit"
> 
> If the horse is unbalanced the owner should be able to say that and say "hold up a sec, let me just shift that foot, that will make it easier for him to stand".


Totally agree as per the end of my post.




> Tired? Of what? Standing for the farrier? Too bloody bad. Not an excuse to misbehave as far as I am concerned.


No as I said, not impatience. Horses have to develop the strength and balance to be able to stand on three legs for any length of time (in the way they are often held out by farriers etc.) This is why one needs to prepare well in advance.



> And to the bolded. So when my horse acts like an idiot for something he has done a million times before and I respond with "Oh Rex, you're a dickhead, stand up and quit acting like a lunatic", I am automatically not fit to work with horses.


That is not what I was saying. Emotions such as anger and frustration are perfectly normal, but have no place when working with animals. They cloud judgement and trigger inappropriate responses. Such as hitting a horse on the legs of all places as in this case. That smacks of a lack of self-control rather than appropriate correction.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

I have no interest in discussing "morality" any further. I will say in response to your last post Beau, that my original comment was actually not directed at anyone in particular. You are the one getting butt hurt and acting like it was aimed at you.

And with that, I am done with you.


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

HowClever said:


> I suggest you do the same.





HowClever said:


> I have to laugh at the offense of him calling your horse a "dickhead". I can understand it from a thinking it is unprofessional point of view, but to actually be offended that he called her a "dickhead".
> 
> .


 
LOL....


YOU are the one who needs to accept people's views and opinions as the quote directly above was uncalled for and mocking.

And stop being obtuse and saying that being offended by "dickhead" was NOT directed at me because I am the only one who said it was offensive. Therefore to say you find being offended by that word is funny, then it IS directed at me. 

STOP acting like you decided that being offended by dickhead being funny just came to you out of the blue when you know perfectly well it was in direct reference to me saying it. 

We are not stupid here on this forum. When someone makes a statement, then someone responds within minutes that they find the statement funny, it is directed at SOMEONE IN PARTICULAR....duh.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Doe said:


> No as I said, not impatience. Horses have to develop the strength and balance to be able to stand on three legs for any length of time (in the way they are often held out by farriers etc.) *This is why one needs to prepare well in advance.
> *


This is exactly the point though. If the horse is legitimately tired and has not been adequately prepared for the farrier, why is the farrier not allowed to defend him/herself. Why should the farrier take the risk of getting hurt because the owner has not adequately prepared the horse.


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## rlcarnes (Jul 12, 2011)

I am done with this forum


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## Doe (Jun 21, 2011)

HowClever said:


> This is exactly the point though. If the horse is legitimately tired and has not been adequately prepared for the farrier, why is the farrier not allowed to defend him/herself. Why should the farrier take the risk of getting hurt because the owner has not adequately prepared the horse.


Equally why should the horse be punished? Two wrongs do not make a right and such unfair correction is the reason horse develop further issues and problems. (and if you are asking a horse to do something which causes them pain or which they are unable to do then it is unfair to correct them)

The appropriate response is that the farrier should allow the horse a rest in that case. There is no need for the farrier to be in any danger whatsoever. 

Short on time? Tough. Charge the owner more or walk away. That is perhaps the only way the owner will understand the need to do more with with the horse. Bring it back to where the responsibility lies instead of masking the issues and taking the easy route.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Doe said:


> Equally why should the horse be punished? Two wrongs do not make a right and such unfair correction is the reason horse develop further issues and problems. (and if you are asking a horse to do something which causes them pain or which they are unable to do then it is unfair to correct them)
> 
> The appropriate response is that the farrier should allow the horse a rest in that case. There is no need for the farrier to be in any danger whatsoever.
> 
> Short on time? Tough. Charge the owner more or walk away. That is perhaps the only way the owner will understand the need to do more with with the horse. Bring it back to where the responsibility lies instead of masking the issues and taking the easy route.


It is an entirely foreign concept to me to expect my farrier to wait around. I would not even ask it. We have upwards of 7 horses here for him to trim, most days that he is out he has another 20 - 30 to do at other places.

I do agree that when a farrier comes across a situation where the horse is physically unprepared to stand perhaps it would be better for him/her to walk away. 

I also think, however, that a farrier does not know the history of the horse he is trimming a lot of the time. Especially not a farrier who is trimming that particular horse for the first time. So how is he/she to know that the owner has not put in the work to prepare the horse. If the owner hasn't bothered themselves with putting the work in they certainly aren't going to tell the farrier so.


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

just wondering....What does "adequately prepare the horse" mean?


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## Doe (Jun 21, 2011)

Beauseant said:


> just wondering....What does "adequately prepare the horse" mean?


Adequately preparing the horse means ensuring that the horse is able and willing to stand for whatever you are going to require it to stand for.

So in the case of a farrier, that it is able and willing to hold its legs up in the required position for a reasonable period of time.

That it is comfortable with the rasping, hammering etc. Comfortable with the smoke and smell if you are hot shoeing. (burn some old hoof clippings from other horses if you are on a yard etc. If not burn some old horse hair, dog hair, sheep hair, human hair whatever, its all keratin and stinks the same!)

All things that can be prepared in advance by a responsible owner

Also as a handler make sure you know how to position and influence a horse. There are some very specific techniques to use. For example;

Never just tie a horse up if you are anything other than 100% certain it'll stand unaided. If the farrier and the horse are used to it then fine, but otherwaise no you should be there.
Use a quality, snug fitting halter - not a rope one. When standing stand on the same side as the farrier. Insert three fingers flat behind the side strap by the cheek. (do not insert where they can get trapped, and hold the end of the rope with the other hand.
This allows you to turn the head as needed to influence the horses balance my moving its weight, shifting the head up/down left or right accordingly. It also means the horse cannot think about biting.


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

Thanks. Was wondering because we never have to prepare our horses for the farrier....

He shows up.

They stand.

Except for our mare, who gets cranky once in a while and has been whacked a time or two by the farrier over the years, we don't usually give the farrier a second thought in regards to preparing our horses for his arrival.

Of course both horses are barefoot, so the farrier visits are usually quick and not scary. If they were to be suddenly shod, they might not be as calm...lol.

In general, both horses do really well with immunizations, bloodwork and the farrier. 

They just accept them as part of the routine, so we don't do anything special to prepare them.

Thanks for responding,


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## Horse Poor (Aug 20, 2008)

stardust said:


> You have to understand I have been getting this farrier for* well over a year*, he knows my horses behaviour very well and he knows she can get stubborn from time to time and he also knows she never shows any aggression towards him. He has not once hit her or called her names, but this day he did.
> 
> I guess I'm taken back by it because he has never been this way towards her, he is usually patient *and when she does act like a cow* he'll just hang on to her leg and tell her to "get up!" in a loud firm voice which responds to.


Maybe he's just tired of putting up with her crap…a year is a long time to deal with her acting "like a cow".


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

That sure happens!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SeeingSpots (May 29, 2011)

NOpe. If any farrier hits my horse or even touches him/her in a manner I am not happy with when I am present. I don't care how much time her spent, how many shoes he just put on, or how many feet he's filed. He's not getting paid or ever setting foot on my property again.

The End.


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## faithinthehorse (Aug 14, 2011)

Just yesterday one of my geldings kept pulling his hoof away...and yes the farrier did tap him with his hand never with anything else


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## Camigurl (Aug 14, 2011)

I think you may be over reacting a little. My horse is very well mannered, but sometimes he gets a little antsy when getting his feet trimmed. I correct him, but sometimes he ignores me. I am not one to beat my horses obviously, but i do believe a slight whack never hurt anything. My farrier has tapped my horse with his file before. Nothing to get all up in arms about. If he hit her hard that's another story. Most horses won't need much of a whck, a light tap will usually do.


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## SeeingSpots (May 29, 2011)

There is a reason I do my own horses feet. They are all perfectly fine until a farrier comes out. I must just have bad luck with them.


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## Horse Poor (Aug 20, 2008)

SeeingSpots said:


> There is a reason I do my own horses feet. They are all perfectly fine until a farrier comes out. I must just have bad luck with them.


Why would you need a farrier to come out if you "do" your own horses' feet?


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## SeeingSpots (May 29, 2011)

I used to have one come out because I did not have the time. I have the time now so I don't have to.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

I do my horses feet but get my farrier out every 16 weeks or so to keep an eye on my trimming and do any more aggressive work that I'm not comfortable doing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FoxRidgeRanch (May 20, 2008)

It depends on how ard the farrier hit them and what for. If my horse is just a little fidgity and he were to smack him I'd be a little miffed and prolly ust say something to him but if my horses was continuously taking their feet way or scooting around I see no problem with a swat. On the legs no and with a rasp Hell no. I've seen what a "little" swat with a rasp can do especially if its not the finishing side of it. I know for the longest time my brother trimmed our horses and he'd punch them if they so much a sneezed. They were terrified of him, he wouldn't do that to his horses or paying customers horses. Took me a while to find a decent farrier that was on time and did a good job.


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## goodhrs (Dec 30, 2009)

rlcarnes said:


> I am done with this forum


 Me too. :-(


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

After glancing through and realizing just how quickly this went down hill yesterday-a couple of thoughts......

To the OP-the farrier was calling your horse a name, not you. For you to take the giant leap that it pertains to you personally, and therefore would be anywhere remotely close to draw the conclusion that because someone does not take offense PERSONALLY that they want to PERSONALLY be called names is ridiculous. You are really stretching it there. Get over yourself. Because someone does not take offense makes them no less of a "lady" or "gentlemen". 

Secondly, I have one of my horses who, because of arthritic hocks does pull occassionally from my farrier. This is something the farrier is well aware of ahead of time, and knows there is a physical reason for. The horse simply cannot hold his foot up that long. I have learned, and so has he, to distinguish between the "pain" reaction Doe refers to and being bratty. Bratty is not accceptable. Period. And yes, you should be able to tell when your little princess is getting antsy. At this point you should deal with her when the feet are all on the ground....I would typically just say something to the farrier...like..."she is getting antsy, I am going to correct her just so he can step away while he is standing for a second anyway. Just how I deal with it. If you fail to, he has to. JMHO.


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## Doe (Jun 21, 2011)

franknbeans said:


> I have learned, and so has he, to distinguish between the "pain" reaction Doe refers to and being bratty. Bratty is not accceptable. Period. And yes, you should be able to tell when your little princess is getting antsy. At this point you should deal with her when the feet are all on the ground....I would typically just say something to the farrier...like..."she is getting antsy, I am going to correct her just so he can step away while he is standing for a second anyway. Just how I deal with it. If you fail to, he has to. JMHO.


Absolutely.


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## Kawairashii Ichigo (Jul 18, 2010)

My pony had terrible experiences with people beating him to the point of gashes when getting feet done (He's a rescue). It's taken a ton of time and work but he's fairly good now. If people start to get aggressive out of nowhere then he will definitely fight back and just about kill you. But if you take your time and work with him he's great. However if he starts acting up to be a dink and simply doesn't want his feet done I have no problems if either me or my farrier gives him a smuck. It's the difference between discipline and simply being mean. They pick up the two (In this case it took time, patience, effort to notice the two, but he well understands now). So if the farrier's simply hitting to be mean, then yes I could see it effecting your horse, but by the sounds of it I think he was totally in the right. He didn't hurt your horse by any means, it didn't cut her, she wasn't stiff, as you said she was simply a little ****ed off after because she was told what to do. Horses in a field will kick and rough house each other far worse than a small smack. Your horse needs to learn that bad habit has to stop before it becomes more than just putting a foot down (Because once they're allowed to consistently get away with one thing, they'll try something else. They think "Hey, if I do this it's a little less time he's spending trimming my hoof. I wonder what will happen if I do THIS." Then something worse happens.) I personally don't tolerate my pony putting his feet down on me when they need done. I'm not harsh about it by any means, but I do believe saftey is a major issue, and small things left can lead to other things. This is his income and his life. If he see's somthing that could put him out of work and eventually threaten his life, I think it's good he tried to correct it. It's your choice though on how hard you think she's being disciplined. Keep in mind it's not like he hurt her, and she did listen after to him. She only took out her frustration on her own time because she didn't like being told she could no longer act up. If you think it's too much, find a different farrier. If you have a good thing going though, I wouldn't go out of your way for a new one, your horse needs to learn bad habits like that are unacceptable, but if it is overdone, then yah, choice is yours.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

NorthernMama said:


> I would let it go. Personally, I would have been more upset with the "dickhead" comment than the rasp. Rather rude to the owner, IMO.


Thank you! The comment bothered me hugely too! 

I'm with the posters that feel the flat side of the rasp was not as bad as the OP is working it up to be.

OP - you should of said something at the time.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

coffeegod said:


> Having just torn up my membership card in the Unicorn Farts & Rainbow Spit Horse club, I can tell you the farrier's action has far greater impact on you, stardust, than your horse.
> 
> You have a choice: Talk to the farrier, let him know how you felt about the correction and go from there
> 
> ...


Best post. I too no longer have a membership card in the Unicorn Farts & Rainbow Spit Horse club.

PS, this topic comes up pretty frequently. Do a search, OP. 


If the owner is not taking responsibility to keep the farrier safe when they are underneath the horse the farrier has to do what is required to keep it safe. Like someone else said, one hand holding a hoof and one hand holding a rasp equals the horse getting smacked with the rasp at times.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

I was thinking about this yesterday (boring day at work, what can I say) and was thinking about the OP's mare taking off bucking. 

Since the OP admitted that she kind of molly-coddles her mare, I'm thinking that the mare was probably ****ed off that someone actually reprimanded her for doing something she shouldn't have and was "telling the farrier off" when she was turned out. 

Unless the OP is an absolute expert at reading horse body language, there may have been a subtle sign or movement from the mare that she missed, but that the farrier felt and that he deigned a threat to his person if he didn't nip it in the bud right then and there. I know there were times with my old gelding that my farrier (who uses a harsh voice and "Quit it!" when a horse starts to act up...I've personally never seen him hit a horse, but we never let our horses get to the point where they needed to be reprimanded by him) would tell Dakota to "Quit it" and, even though I was paying close attention to what was going on with my horse, I didn't feel or see anything out of the "ordinary." Sometimes it's a slight tensing or a shift of weight. If your farrier has been doing their job long enough, they know the warning signs of a horse about to do something "bad" and will act accordingly so that it doesn't escalate. Call it their version of preventative maintenance.


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

My farrier calls my horse a stupid mustang and pretty much implied I was his customer by accident the last time he did my horse's feet (he didn't know she was a mustang and said if he HAD known, he never would have done her feet). Needless to say, I am juggling around the thought of using a different farrier. But he does SUCH a good job. =(


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Equilove, you can make that into a compliment to your good training too. It might have been meant to be that way.

He is probably used to dealing with Mustangs that the people with Black Stallion syndrome adopt and get almost no training.


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Equilove, you can make that into a compliment to your good training too. It might have been meant to be that way.
> 
> He is probably used to dealing with Mustangs that the people with Black Stallion syndrome adopt and get almost no training.


Maybe so. But even though she stood there quietly (aside from some light pulls or something simply like shifting her weight back a little when he was working on her front foot) he continued to call her a "stupid mustang" and I won't lie, it irritated me. Especially since I've held other horses for him to work on that would sit almost completely back and not a mean word was muttered about them. =


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> I know there were times with my old gelding that my farrier (who uses a harsh voice and "Quit it!" when a horse starts to act up...I've personally never seen him hit a horse, but we never let our horses get to the point where they needed to be reprimanded by him) would tell Dakota to "Quit it" and, even though I was paying close attention to what was going on with my horse, I didn't feel or see anything out of the "ordinary." Sometimes it's a slight tensing or a shift of weight. *If your farrier has been doing their job long enough, they know the warning signs of a horse about to do something "bad" and will act accordingly so that it doesn't escalate.*


This.

It's called being proactive. STOP the action before it can happen. The same way a trainer can get a horse to respond to a cue - they FEEL.

Our farrier will growl "heeyyyy" as a warning. Since most of the horses on the property have at one time or another been 'growled' at by me, they know to sit up and take notice.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I do not disagree that the farrier (and the owner) should be proactive.

That does not mean all horses behave when they are caught as they are about to do something bad.


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## Doe (Jun 21, 2011)

> he continued to call her a "stupid mustang" and I won't lie, it irritated me.


That's just one of those ignorant prejudices along with paint horses being stupid, arabs being spooky and cobs fat and lazy.

As they say 'a good horse is never a bad colour' - to which I would add 'but an ignorant man will always remain so'


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## WalkerLady (Jul 22, 2010)

stardust said:


> You have to understand I have been getting this farrier for well over a year.
> 
> You see I had used a different farrier the time before this one to get my mare's hooves filed and I think it has gotten back to my regular farrier. So when he arrived this time his overall attitude was quite abrupt, even borderline rude.


 
OP (if you're still here), I'm just curious, why did you use a different farrier the time before this time, when you apparently have had no problems for over a year?


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

WalkerLady said:


> OP (if you're still here), I'm just curious, why did you use a different farrier the time before this time, when you apparently have had no problems for over a year?


I don't know if it's the same in the OP's area as it is here, but farriers are a dime in a dozen and hardly reliable.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Equilove said:


> I don't know if it's the same in the OP's area as it is here, but farriers are a dime in a dozen and hardly reliable.


Good quality farriers are never a dime a dozen.....


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## goodhrs (Dec 30, 2009)

Equilove said:


> I don't know if it's the same in the OP's area as it is here, but farriers are a dime in a dozen and hardly reliable.


 We have a ton of farriers around here too, but, good ones are few and far betweeen:wink:. Some are certified, some arent, just judge the man by the quality of his job, professionalism, and ability to work with your horse. I like a good solid farrier that reads the horses confirmation and shoes accordingly, not the ones that are always falling into the new modern trends of what ever happens to be going around at that time:shock:. JMO


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Bad farriers are a dime a dozen. Good ones are worth their weight in gold. 

As far as hitting a horse with a rasp, they are taking a chance on scarring up a horse that may have been a $10,000 show horse and depreciating it to a $500 plug. A good farrier may whack a horse in self defense; he should never risk causing serious injury to the horse. I don't care what names my farrier calls my horse. She doesn't speak all that much English anyway.


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## brighteyes08 (Jan 20, 2010)

Yeahh no, if you feel that he did wrong, chances are you are right unless your one of those owners who completely babies their horses and think that they can do no wrong.. but it dosn't sound that way..

Once when my horse was done by this one guy, he kicked out once.. Benson always stands very quiet (and was standing quiet at the time) and has NEVER even so much as kicked another horse before this which is why I was soo stunned.. the farrier wacked him twice on the side with his rasp, but Benson had a blanket on, which in my books was fine! you know a horse does something bad, give him a scare! BUT this guy figured he didn't hurt him and was actually angry, so you know what he did then? kicked him in the stomach with his steel toe boot!

I didn't say anything at the time, and now I feel so ashamed, but Benson will never be done by him again.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Celeste said:


> Bad farriers are a dime a dozen. Good ones are worth their weight in gold.
> 
> As far as hitting a horse with a rasp, they are taking a chance on scarring up a horse that may have been a $10,000 show horse and depreciating it to a $500 plug. A good farrier may whack a horse in self defense; he should never risk causing serious injury to the horse. I don't care what names my farrier calls my horse. She doesn't speak all that much English anyway.


I don't understand why people have to exagerate to make a point that is shared by a majority of peopel. A farrier isn't going to horribly disfigure a horse by whacking it with a rasp. It's unlikely to even draw blood. have you ever seen a rasp? I don't do it because rasps are expensive and they are not that hard to break like that.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

They usually don't draw blood. I agree. But an expensive show horse that gets hit with a metal object could get scarred. There was actually a case exactly like that in Georgia a few years ago. The horses do have to stand. No horse is worth getting killed over. But a crop of the handle end of the rasp is not likely to cut the horse.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

So a $10000 show horse was turned into a $500 plug from a single strike with a rasp? I call bull-feces on that!


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

AmazinCaucasian said:


> Look at things from your farrier's perspective... Maybe it's a $10,000 horse. But that doesn't compare to a $20,000 broken leg...


Great point. I think we should ALL consider price when we look at buying a horse that seems like a good deal because he _"needs work,"_ too.

My perspective? I've had about half a dozen different farriers in 26 years of horse ownership. Several quit because they developed back problems. Others were burnt out. I found myself an Amish farrier that I've had for the past 6 years. He even has found some local (we're an hour away from his place) clients who can't trailer, and we all pay a little extra to have him come to our place. Not convenient for planning sometimes, but I pay $35 vs. $16 for a regular trim/horse, which is exactly what I paid my original farrier in 1985--certainly affordable.
He's even taken to doing some horses in stocks. It was the wildest thing to watch him show two Belgians who both refused to pick up their feet. The heavy wooden stocks have a chest chain, butt chain (both run through rubber hoses,) a place to tie up the halter, and he secures 3 feet to their own vertical post, while a pulley system pulls up the foot he needs, then he moves it into a secure wooden "dock" to work on. The time I saw this each horse fussed and fumed, and tried to pull away. He'd stop and sooth them, then continue and did his typical perfect shoeing job.
Don't exactly know where I'd go if I lost this one. I don't mind if he occasionally smacks my horses.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

"So a $10000 show horse was turned into a $500 plug from a single strike with a rasp? I call bull-feces on that!"



Lol! Bull feces perhaps.
Well, it still would't be worth $10,000 if you couldn't show it for a scar.
You won't get much repeat business as a farrier anyway if you put a scar on a horse.


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## Ashley at Rivermont (Aug 18, 2011)

I don't mind my farrier giving a spank with his hand or a vocal spanking, but if my farrier ever hit any of my horses with his rasp and especially used language like that around me, I would fire him in a heart beat. I've been using the same farrier on my farm for 10 years and I've seen him fuss at a horse one time, and NEVER has he cussed or used tacky language around me. That's so unprofessional and I don't want a potty mouth around. When my farrier "fussed", all he did was raise his voice, but I've never had him hit one of my horses. Now, if your farrier was in danger of getting stomped, there are better ways to deal with it than smacking with a rasp...I think. That's just my opinion though!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Celeste said:


> Lol! Bull feces perhaps.
> Well, it still would't be worth $10,000 if you couldn't show it for a scar.
> You won't get much repeat business as a farrier anyway if you put a scar on a horse.


Um... really? There are not that many aspects of showing that one scar will prohibit you from doing. Just saying.

That is making the HUGE leap that whacking a horse with a rasp would leave a permanent mark of any kind.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Alwaysbehind said:


> That is making the HUGE leap that whacking a horse with a rasp would leave a permanent mark of any kind.


Maybe so. But I am very picky about my horses and if they get scarred up, I want it to be due to my stupidity, or their own, not due to some knucklebrain whacking them with a metal object. My farrier is gentle. My horses are high strung, but they are not dangerous or aggressive. They do well if handled gently. Taking a risk on destroying a nice show horse is not a good way to make friends. 

Like I said earlier, good farriers are worth their weight in gold.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Celeste-if your horse gets a mark (highly doubtful, !ut.....) From a farrier smacking it-that IS because of its' own stupidity-or yours, since you apparently couldn't handle the 'stupid' yourself! 
I also take offense to your intimating that your $10000 show horse is any more important than anyone's horse no matter what the price on their head. I find it a bit elitist, frankly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Actually, I would get just as mad if he hurt my 30 year old pony that has no monetary value. I love that old pony. He was so good to my kids when they were growing up.

I was just making a point that it is more than emotions that makes injuring someone's horse be a problem. There is real financial liability here. 
At the price of horses right now, $10,000 dollar show horses probably can be had for a lot less than $10,000 too. It doesn't meant that somebody wants them hurt.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I chimed in on this some pages back, but I STILL think the farrier shouldn't be hitting the horse in the leg with a rasp. If it truly happened that way, I would be horrified. 

I think the legs are probably the most fragile, easily damaged part of the horse. There isn't much but skin covering the cannon bone. And you guys think it's okay to hit that with a heavy metal object? I don't. I know a few things about rasps too, as I do my own horse's feet. They have a goodly amount of weight to them and I would not want to hit a horse in the leg with one.

Yes, the horse needs to stand. But I don't know how ANYONE can defend someone hitting a horse in the leg with a rasp.

The farrier lost his temper otherwise he wouldn't have called the horse a "dickhead." This wasn't training, it was lashing out in anger.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

trailhorserider said:


> I chimed in on this some pages back, but I STILL think the farrier shouldn't be hitting the horse in the leg with a rasp. If it truly happened that way, I would be horrified.
> 
> I think the legs are probably the most fragile, easily damaged part of the horse. There isn't much but skin covering the cannon bone. And you guys think it's okay to hit that with a heavy metal object? I don't. I know a few things about rasps too, as I do my own horse's feet. They have a goodly amount of weight to them and I would not want to hit a horse in the leg with one.
> 
> ...


You go girl!! Don't hit my horse!


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

We have no idea whether the farrier was lashing out in anger or not, and I certainly would not make that assumption myself. There are people who use words like that rather commonly, and it has nothing to do with anger. 
No, I would not be ok with a farrier hitting my horse in certain parts of the leg like the cannon bone. That said,,....I would find it doubtful that is what happened. I am of the belief that the op exagerates a bit, JMHO.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

It is just so amazing to me that because I don't want my horse to be hit, I find out that I am a snob and have untrained horses. Lol. Actually, my horses stand well for the farrier. If he hit them, he would have to go.

The original poster may have exaggerated, but she may not have. Some people do hit horses on the legs with rasps. That is one reason that I stay with my horses while they get their shoes done.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

By the way frankie, nice horse. I hope you don't let your farrier hit him. Well collected. Pretty.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

I think you may want to reread my post. I did not say you were a snob, I said I found your remark offensive and elitist. Read what you will. 
I also did NOT say your horses were untrained. Again, you took that leap yourself. After you said you would prefer that a mark on one of your horses be a result of your stupidity or theirs, I simply said that if your horse were hit by a farrier because they were misbehaving, it would be just that. Their stupidity or yours. Never did I say they were untrained. 
We can agree that IF a farrier ever hit one of my guys on the LEG they would be out of there finished or not. I also am with mine when they are done. Mine just don't have shoes......until we need sliding plates. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

franknbeans said:


> We have no idea whether the farrier was lashing out in anger or not, and I certainly would not make that assumption myself. There are people who use words like that rather commonly, and it has nothing to do with anger.
> No, I would not be ok with a farrier hitting my horse in certain parts of the leg like the cannon bone. That said,,....I would find it doubtful that is what happened. I am of the belief that the op exagerates a bit, JMHO.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm not concerned so much with if it actually happened as much as I am amazed how everyone thinks it is okay for a farrier to hit a horse with a rasp- especially on the leg. It seems like the folks who think it is NOT okay are in the minority. That's what is surprising to me.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Franknbeans, Ok, well good. I thought that you felt it was ok for the farrier to whack your horse on the legs. I love my horses. They are also well behaved.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

trailhorserider said:


> I'm not concerned so much with if it actually happened as much as I am amazed how everyone thinks it is okay for a farrier to hit a horse with a rasp- especially on the leg. It seems like the folks who think it is NOT okay are in the minority. That's what is surprising to me.


 
In this grim economy, my farrier appreciates my business. He is kind and gentle and does an awesome job. It is not ok to hit a horse with a rasp on the leg. Period.


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## Anvil (Feb 21, 2009)

I personally think a horse should never be hit with a rasp.

How ever the other week I was nailing a back shoe on a horse and the horse kicked at me 3 times hit my clippers they went flying 20 feet and right in the area where vehicles
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

That is terrible that the horse kicked at you. Yours is a dangerous job. Glad you don't hit horses with rasps.


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

Yeah, I think you did overreact. 

My farrier has given Norm a few spankings with the rasp. He never does anything "nasty" either, but he gets antsy once in a while. He's well old enough to know better and I expect him to stand still. If he doesn't, he gets his *** cracked. You have to be strict with him. He's too **** strong to be misbehaving.

My farrier also calls him many names that involve profanity (and a "trampoline for fleas"). He's a cowboy, it's just the way he is. Actually, it's pretty funny. :lol: He's a great horseman, and he would never hit a horse that didn't deserve it. I wouldn't be using him if he wasn't good. 

Horses are not baby bunnies. They are enormous animals that can break you in half like a toothpick. If they are allowed to get away with something once, it'll probably escalate into a real problem in no time. You can't worry about hurting their little feelings. They're not going to hate or fear you for scolding them.


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## Rachel1786 (Nov 14, 2010)

I stopped reading around page 7. I do think that your farrier did overreact for what you said your horse did. BUT we weren't there so we don't know for sure, maybe it was warranted, maybe not. I think hitting with the rasp on the legs or belly is pretty harsh for just pulling a foot away. The first time my farrier did my new appy it was pretty scary. Legacy(the appy) came from the kill pen so i had no history on him at all, he came with a full set of shoes which I wanted pulled. I figured since he had a full set of shoes he shouldn't be too bad. HE WAS TERRIBLE, rearing, kicking the whole nine yards. Between me giving verbal corrections and giving him a jerk with the lead rope and Paul(my farrier) not letting him get away with it and giving the occasional slap on the but when he was bad we got it done. I've had Legacy over a year now and he practically falls asleep while he's getting trimmed now. For behavior like Legacy's I would say it was warranted for sure but for just trying to put her foot down, maybe she just lost her balance and I don't think she deserves to be hit for that.


Sorry if that was mumbled, the phone rang half way though lol


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## Anvil (Feb 21, 2009)

Celeste said:


> That is terrible that the horse kicked at you. Yours is a dangerous job. Glad you don't hit horses with rasps.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anvil (Feb 21, 2009)

Thank you 

I asked the owner if she cares if I train the horse or if she wants to ?

She told me go ahead in bout 10 minutes that horse was standing with no one at its head lead rope laying over my shoulder I nailed the shoe on and horse didn't move or offer to kick.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

trailhorserider said:


> The farrier lost his temper otherwise he wouldn't have called the horse a "dickhead." This wasn't training, it was lashing out in anger.


Ummmmm...I tell Aires to "stop being a ****" regardless of what he's done, whether it was moving away while I'm saddling him (mild) or pulling his hoof away from me and trying to kick me, like he did the other day (major). I don't lose my temper or lash out in anger. It's just my way of letting him know (along with a slap on the nearest body part that's not his face unless he tries to bite me) that what he did wasn't okay. I say it more out of exasperation than I do out of anger. lol

So, no, not everyone uses language like that out of anger.


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## rlcarnes (Jul 12, 2011)

So I have a question for those of you that are worried about your farrier scarring your horses? Do you then keep your horses separated and kept in padded stalls? My old trainer had very expensive Saddlebreds and kept them stalled except for their daily workouts. No pasture and nothing in their stalls to nick them up-like literally padded stalls. Do you all do that with your horse? I personally would be more worried about my $20,000 show horse getting marked up from his pasture mate than a farriers rasp. Again this is just my opinion


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## touchofsleep (Mar 9, 2011)

No. Unless there is a **** good reason. Like say he noticeably tried to kick him, or bite him. Which has not happened yet. My boy is very good for the ferrier. Anything he does is usually corrected by me


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Ummmmm...I tell Aires to "stop being a ****" regardless of what he's done, whether it was moving away while I'm saddling him (mild) or pulling his hoof away from me and trying to kick me, like he did the other day (major). I don't lose my temper or lash out in anger. It's just my way of letting him know (along with a slap on the nearest body part that's not his face unless he tries to bite me) that what he did wasn't okay. I say it more out of exasperation than I do out of anger. lol
> 
> So, no, not everyone uses language like that out of anger.


I do that too! :lol: Horses don't know the difference. I doubt they're terribly offended when you say things like that. Especially when you're not really serious. Some people need to lighten up.

You should here the way my farrier talks to the horses. It's hilarious. Even when he's complimenting them. One time, he was watching Vic run around the pasture (he _hates_ Thoroughbreds) and he said grudgingly, "he's a good-looking son of a *****." That made my day.


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## HollyBubbles (Jun 22, 2009)

Jessabel said:


> I do that too! :lol: Horses don't know the difference. I doubt they're terribly offended when you say things like that. Especially when you're not really serious. Some people need to lighten up.
> 
> You should here the way my farrier talks to the horses. It's hilarious. Even when he's complimenting them. One time, he was watching Vic run around the pasture (he _hates_ Thoroughbreds) and he said grudgingly, "he's a good-looking son of a *****." That made my day.


That makes three of us :lol: (I find it helps the mood when I do the whole "If you dont cut this out im gonna put you on the next tucker truck" when my horses are bein real little boogers, it seems to get the point across nicely)

My farrier does that too, but it's more like when I couldnt catch bubbles he would say "Oh a bullet will catch her" and things like that, but because of the way he said it, it didnt bother me because I knew he was joking.
(If he had said it in a fully serious manner, it would have ticked me off a bit)


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

I can call my horses any manner of names when they misbehave - but if a professional who I was paying to do work on my horses did the same, I would be very displeased. Completely unprofessional in my opinion.


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## KawaiiCharlie (Nov 17, 2010)

I think using the rasp on the lower leg may have been a little harsh, but you said yourself he didnt hit her really hard. if you mare is uninjured, i dont see a problem. and maybe the 'dickhead' comment was a little out of line, but then i can say id use the same sort of word if my horse was playing up while i was trying to do something. 

I had the farrier out for my new mare a couple of weeks ago, it was my first time using the farrier, and Chance's first time having her shoes done by him. she was being a total butt & was pulling back & fidgeting around, and yes my farrier did give her a wack. and i can safely say if he hadnt done it then, i was about to lay into her. while his trainee farrier was filing her front hooves, he got extremely ****ed at her and went and sat in the van for a few minutes to calm down, instead of hitting her which i actually respected. in the end it took my farrier to stand behind Chance so she couldnt lean back, while the trainee carried on. but both men were extremely tolerant. more so than i could have been with her.


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## KawaiiCharlie (Nov 17, 2010)

HollyBubbles said:


> My farrier does that too, but it's more like when I couldnt catch bubbles he would say "Oh a bullet will catch her" and things like that, but because of the way he said it, it didnt bother me because I knew he was joking.
> (If he had said it in a fully serious manner, it would have ticked me off a bit)


that made me giggle :lol: 
i find myself calling Chance all sorts of names jokingly. i dont even realise im doing it most of the time lol im pretty sure she thinks "bitchbag" is her real name. :lol:


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## rlcarnes (Jul 12, 2011)

wild_spot said:


> I can call my horses any manner of names when they misbehave - but if a professional who I was paying to do work on my horses did the same, I would be very displeased. Completely unprofessional in my opinion.


How professional is being a farrier? It is not like they are working in an office part of the day and come out to your barn in khakis and a polo shirt. My farrier wears jeans and a t-shirt. Cut them some slack. They have to deal with horses all day I think if you walked a mile in their shoes you would have some choice words for what everyone thinks is their preciously perfect pony. I'm just saying that it wasn't until after I married a farrier that I realized how bad my horse really was. Lighten up people don't sweat the small stuff life is WAY too short!


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## QH Gunner (Aug 16, 2011)

Haha I hafta agree I call my horse all sorts of names sometimes, not while losing my temper. My haflingers name is "*****" from everyone, bc she's a snot sometimes. 
Now, I have had a farrier hit my horses plenty of times, especially the ones who just were not behaving at all. Only once in the legs, bc the horse took a direct kick & it wasn't really hard. But deserved. I wouldn't have, but this is their job & life to beaffecte by a well place kick. One point I think of tho, if you do not want your farrier/vet/dentis whatever reprimanding your horse, why don't you make sure he is fully trained to stand before you bring someone in, or else- it does become a right of that persons too while they are in the danger zone. If you don't take the responsibility to do so, someone else who hasta work with them can (within reason). If my farrier would hit in the face or something, he'd be gone.. But a few well placed thuds aren't bad. As far as the cursing, makes me giggle some of the terms people say, & I font find that in the least offensive being as most ppl I know have calle their horse something like that, & not during a temper tantrum.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Courtney (May 20, 2011)

If my horse is being a jerk, then by all means, smack him on the shoulder. Use the force necessary to keep yourself safe. The one thing I don't agree with is a boot to the belly or smacking a horse on their head. 

If someone is working on my horse, the last thing I want is them to be injured. If you need to pop him on the neck to make him mind, fine.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

I do my own horses feet 80% of the time so I know very well how difficult a job it is. It is harder on me and my horses when I do them as well, because I am not fit or used to the job, so I take longer than he does. 

I don't care what my farrier wears - usually holey jeans if you want to know. He has NEVER been anything less than professional, nor have any of the other carriers I have used Over the years. Perhaps service standards are lower where you are but I know that here, foul language, especially directed at a clients horse, is just not on.

I feel no need to apologize for expecting a level of professionalism from a professional I am paying to do a job.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

wild_spot said:


> I do my own horses feet 80% of the time so I know very well how difficult a job it is. It is harder on me and my horses when I do them as well, because I am not fit or used to the job, so I take longer than he does.
> 
> I don't care what my farrier wears - usually holey jeans if you want to know. He has NEVER been anything less than professional, nor have any of the other carriers I have used Over the years. Perhaps service standards are lower where you are but I know that here, foul language, especially directed at a clients horse, is just not on.
> 
> ...


You must not come across American cowboys very often. You'd probably be shocked if you met my farrier. He's a foul mouthed, bull riding tough guy, but he is a master of his trade. He's very honest and responsible and knows horseshoeing inside and out. 

You can't take it too seriously. He can cuss all he wants as long as he does a good job. That's what I'm paying him for.

Off topic, but one time he called Norman a "trampoline for fleas". And the last time Norm pulled his foot away, he said, "Buddy, you better behave or you'll make a lot of Mexican hamburgers." :lol:


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

I wouldn't be shocked - I am not offended by language, use it myself sometimes, and know lots of old foul mouthed farmers and horse people.

I just think it is a totally different matter when it is a professional you are paying to do a job. I would feel the same about a waiter swearing when serving food.


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## Tokoneki (Mar 28, 2011)

My farrier smacks my mare on the fatty/fleshy area (her chest) when she fidgets. And I don't mind. These are powerful animals that easily can injure you if allowed to misbehave. As long as its in moderation, I don't see anything wrong with a "physical" correction.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

My farrier hits on me every time he comes out to my horse. Heck if I care, he does a great job, will teach me anything I want to know and gets there asap for an emergency. 
If that's the level of service I get, I don't care if he is unprofessional by hitting on me.


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

I just read a book authored by a 3rd-generation Montana rancher, & the language used, apparently, by everyone in those parts was as salty as Neptune himself! D*** this and d*** that seeming to be favorite epithets. Not the picture that "Little House on the Prairie" presented!


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

I have mixed feelings on subject. My farrier is always very polite (he's just that type of person). I wouldn't be shocked, but I'd prefer if the person I work with wouldn't use them. But if the good professional I'm using and happy with does then so be it. I rather ignore some not-so-polite words than look for new one. 

However using dirty words may hurt the business. Not everyone is tolerant towards them, and the word is spread around pretty fast.


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## ladybugsgirl (Aug 12, 2009)

Yah my farrier well whack my horse if my horse jerks his foot away and its risking the farriers safety. the farrier whacked him once and the next time my horse got done he didnt try to do it again therefore bob didnt get whacked. but if my farrier was beatingy horse there would be a problem.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mrsrjp (Aug 18, 2011)

I agree with many people on here. If you feel that this is an issue that you are afraid might happen again, then I would talk to your farrier. I think it would make you feel better, it may turn out he has a perfectly logical point of view on the matter. It's best to approach it without accusation, like, "Hey I noticed last time you were here......Is this a behavior I need to be on the look out for or make sure I correct?" If you approach it like this, your farrier will not feel attacked or the need to be defensive and you may find out you get a great explanation that puts you at ease. If you don't like the explanation you get then it's time to move on and get another farrier.


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## TheMadHatter (Feb 26, 2007)

A quick smack on the belly with a metal file is not going to hurt your mare. They deliver much harder kicks to their pasture mates than we can with a slap, file or no file. When my horses act up while being trimmed or shod, they get a whack on the belly but ONLY if they're doing something dangerous like snatching their feet away, trying to lay down, fidget on 3 legs, etc. They're not perfect 100% of the time, like people, they do have their days. Now, using the term "dickhead" would have been offensive to me, but thats just my point of view. If he does good work then I would still use him, a quick smack to get her attention and tell her to "stay in line" isn't going to kill her and its not going to make her hate farriers either, it'll help her learn that she can't get away with potentially dangerous behavior when having her hooves worked on.


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