# Leopard Friesian?



## Eliz

Freisian x Appy cross.
He may grey out and lose his spots, how old is he?


----------



## ilovesonya

He is probably a Appaloosa/Friesian. There are quite a few of those crosses floating around. Seems to be the new 'designer breed'. I haven't seen this boys picture yet. He sure is pretty to look at.


----------



## A knack for horses

That is a very beautifully colored horse!


----------



## lv2kyshowtrot

I would this AppyxFriesian.

He is beautiful horse.


----------



## MacabreMikolaj

It's rare for a breed to stamp so dominantly, and yet Freisians just never fail to impress me - you can ALWAYS tell a half-Friesian. They even dominate the Arab blood and they're pros at stamping! :lol:

I don't actually like this color, but I have to admit, it's downright freaky and neat looking when you're used to seeing almost ONLY black Friesians!


----------



## Pinto

Gosh, he's beautiful! They must have been pretty lucky to get such distinct features of both breeds (friesian build, appy spots) as opposed to a crazy mish-mash of features from both.


----------



## lilkitty90

wouldn't it have been terrible if he looked like this but with appy mane and tail?? i wonder if thats happened in any of the appy fresian crosses lol


----------



## purplefoal

Wow-- beautiful. I want him. Yeah, probably an Appy/Friesian... actually, I was going to buy one of those, but it never worked out The Friesian crosses seem to be getting really popular, and it's true, seeming, how they dominate in the crosses.


----------



## A knack for horses

lilkitty90 said:


> wouldn't it have been terrible if he looked like this but with appy mane and tail?? i wonder if thats happened in any of the appy fresian crosses lol


I was just thinking about that :think:.....hmmmm
Definately not as impressive


----------



## ChristianCowgirl

He's absolutely gorgeous!!! I so want him! <3 <3 <3


----------



## SorrelHorse

Hes a cutie. Got everything I would want - Flash and a fun ride by the looks of it. I've been thinking of getting friesian Or some sort of draft type, just to make my tank like paints look small. Plus, they have always astounded me. I might have to start planning it. Maybe I could finally get into driving 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eastowest

I am pretty sure that this is Mystic Warrior, who is actually 3/4 Friesian. He was sired by a Friesian stallion, and his leopard spotted dam was half Friesian as well. Unfortunately she was also grey and so is Mystic Warrior, so the spots will eventually be gone. Still a breathtaking horse however-- and will be every bit as striking as a white horse. 
Here is baby Mystic Warrior with his dam.


----------



## jagman6201

I'd almost go as far to say he'd be even more stunning in white! I can only imagine...

He was an adorable foal! Love those white eyelashes! ^^


----------



## kassierae

^^It's not the same horse. The foal in the pic did go grey, I have no idea where the pics are though. The OP's pic is of a horse that is a true leopard.


----------



## Eastowest

The pic in the OP looks like a leoopard in the process of going grey to me.

Here are photos of Mystic Warrior (the foal in the photo I posted) taken earlier this year-- really looks like the same horse to me, and even the same rider (albeit cleaned up a bit for the horse fair photos.)


----------



## Eastowest

Compare the spots-- especially on the right front leg.


----------



## lilkitty90

looks the same to me! and if you can see really closely it looks like the horse has VERY faint spots that you can barely see along his chest and neck. maybe from spots that were there but arn't anymore?


----------



## Pidge

If you look at the spots on his rear end they match up too...Ill agree that the Op's photos are of Mystic Warrior as well...

Such a beautiful horse...stunning...simply stunning. Ive never seen one like that.


----------



## my2geldings

That is one messed up looking horse :shock: never seen that in my life. Very different!


----------



## speedy da fish

not pure Friesian im guessing, gorgeous though!

when i saw him, he reminded me of the spotted noriker horse


----------



## Speed Racer

I don't normally like Friesian crosses, but I do have to say that's one stunning animal.

Reminds me of a Knabstrupper:


----------



## Eastowest

He reminds me of King Louis XIV's horses-- (who also look suspiciously like greying leopards to me-- particularly in the middle painting!)


----------



## apachiedragon

I thought of a Knabstrupper too, wonder what you'd get if you crossed one of THOSE with a Fresian.


----------



## Deslumbrar

apachiedragon said:


> I thought of a Knabstrupper too, wonder what you'd get if you crossed one of THOSE with a Fresian.


I found this post searching for more images/info of Mystic Warrior - his breeder had a Knabstrupper/Friesian cross listed also:









Half Friesian Half Knabstrupper Stud Colt


----------



## PecuniaMiAmor

I'm actually surprised most people think friesians cross well and pass on their look. I think its more that people are finding these lovely stallions that crossed well but if you search for friesian crosses on dreamhorse.com etc... they just don't look very friesian-y to me. 

I think it depends on the individuals being bred. Our stud passes on a distinct look but many others do not... thats why I've never cared much for cross breeding them. You have to really know what you're doing.

When I was younger we had two friesian/paint crosses and they were lovely but you wouldn't know they were from friesians.


----------



## WhoaNow

lilkitty90 said:


> wouldn't it have been terrible if he looked like this but with appy mane and tail??
> i wonder if thats happened in any of the appy fresian crosses lol


LOL!! Thats what I was thinking about too:wink:


----------



## Deslumbrar

Im really not sure where people keep getting this Appy mane thing - I know more QHs with cruddy sparse thin manes than Ive ever seen Appy's with similar. Most of the Appys Ive known have thick manes and tails.

But this guy is a gorgeous example of a Friesian-App cross... maybe a tad butt high, but he's gorgeous and a great mover. With a full mane and tail


----------



## PecuniaMiAmor

Tried to add this link of searches to my previous post but I waited too long. They just don't represent the friesian enough for me to desire that cross if you're looking for a horse that "looks" friesian-y. And there isn't a consistent "look" they all share... some just look like thoroughbreds, some look like mustangs, some looks like warmbloods and others look like percheron crosses! 

Horses for Sale - Equine.com


----------



## TralissaAndalusians

Yeah, that's Domino (Mystic Warrior) 3/4 Friesian, 1/4 Appaloosa.

He's gorgeous XD


----------



## amp23

I just found this website that has some pictures of him when he was younger. I guess he's graying out since he had so much more black on him as a baby.

A Smattering of Updates! Zenyatta, Amazing Grace, the odd colored foal and an Equine Retreat! | Horse and Man |


----------



## eowyn

Man! He's beautiful!


----------



## ShutUpJoe

That is Mystic Warrior. He's so stunning. He was actually on my facebook today because I have Cowboy Magic on there.


----------



## candandy49

Oh My!! What an absolutely, positively stunning fellow. I saw that baby picture of him on another BB I follow.


----------



## Equilove

He is 3/4 friesian and 1/4 appaloosa. I saw something about him somewhere else.


----------



## lilkitty90

the appy mane and tail thing because the standard Appy mane and tail that comes with the original breeding is a rat mane and tail. bred to be sparse by the native american's so neighboring tribes (when they were at war) couldn't pull the and grab the horse by the mane and tail because it was sparse and small.


----------



## Deslumbrar

lilkitty90 said:


> the appy mane and tail thing because the standard Appy mane and tail that comes with the original breeding is a rat mane and tail. bred to be sparse by the native american's so neighboring tribes (when they were at war) couldn't pull the and grab the horse by the mane and tail because it was sparse and small.


Thats a myth - the mane got like that after the horses were very rare, after being taken from Natives. Alot of Appaloosas were crossed into Draft breeds for use on the farm and were later crossed agin with lighter breeds to try to bring back them back closer to the original. Google info on foundation bred Appaloosas, the idea that Appies originally had sparse manes and tails is just false.


----------



## ButtInTheDirt

I can definately tell it is a Fresian/Appaloosa because obviously it looks like a Fresian, but has the mottled skin aswell as color of an Appaloosa. I can't exactally see the horses eyes, otherwise Appaloosas have the sclera in their eyes white, rather than a darker color like others might.
I really want a Appy/Fresian, they make for gorgeous crosses! Just look at this guy [http://www.designsporthorse.com/Grand Design New.htm].


----------



## JrAndsumer

<title>Appaloosa Sport Horse Stallion Grand Design
i like their horse-
A'va Minted Design
Appaloosa Sport Horse Ava More Photos
Luna Design
Appaloosa Sport Horse Luna Design


----------



## lilkitty90

regardless, MOST appaloosa's have sparse mane and tails. not all, our appy girl has a very rat mane and a nice full thick tail. of course the rat mane and tail isn't a standard for the appaloosa.


----------



## Deslumbrar

lilkitty90 said:


> regardless, MOST appaloosa's have sparse mane and tails. not all, our appy girl has a very rat mane and a nice full thick tail. of course the rat mane and tail isn't a standard for the appaloosa.


MOST Appaloosas now are spotted Quarter Horses... but thats a whole nother argument for a whole nother thread LOL

I love my Appy... but he was fortunate enough to get alot of foundation look to him, and the Indian Shuffle which is totally neat

That second stallion is absolutely gorgeous... Killer mover!


----------



## Deslumbrar

ButtInTheDirt said:


> I can definately tell it is a Fresian/Appaloosa because obviously it looks like a Fresian, but has the mottled skin aswell as color of an Appaloosa. I can't exactally see the horses eyes, otherwise Appaloosas have the sclera in their eyes white, rather than a darker color like others might.
> I really want a Appy/Fresian, they make for gorgeous crosses! Just look at this guy [http://www.designsporthorse.com/Grand Design New.htm].


Pretty close! Appaloosa is technically a breed while the spotting is called "Leopard Complex" in the genetics world. There are other breeds of horse with spotting that are unrelated (in the past few hundred years) to the modern Appaloosa breed.

Noriker - Noriker horse breed information




 (neat vid)

Knabstrupper - American Knabstrupper Association - Home Page




 (nice stallion)

The horse that is the main topic of discussion in this thread is obviously part Friesian - but there are half-Knabstrupper crosses out there that look similarly like Friesians with spots. There was one on Mystic Warrior's breeders sites as well.


----------



## LuckyHorsey7

wow thats a beautiful horse.


----------



## lilkitty90

yeah very True Deslumbrar but technically no one will ever truely know! and i do love that little indian shuffle gait they do!


----------



## spottedmom

lilkitty90 said:


> wouldn't it have been terrible if he looked like this but with appy mane and tail?? i wonder if thats happened in any of the appy fresian crosses lol


Would likely never happen with a leopard especially one with a white mane and tail.

Spottedmom


----------



## Deslumbrar

spottedmom said:


> Would likely never happen with a leopard especially one with a white mane and tail.
> 
> Spottedmom


... How could this not happen with a leopard, just because of the white mane and tail?

Color genetics don't have anything to do with how thick/thin a horses mane and tail are.


----------



## tbstorm

thats too weird!! love it tho


----------



## spottedmom

Deslumbrar said:


> ... How could this not happen with a leopard, just because of the white mane and tail?
> 
> Color genetics don't have anything to do with how thick/thin a horses mane and tail are.


 
Actually the LP gene (leopard complex) has a lot to do with how thick and long a mane and tail can be as our research has found out. The LP gene tends to affect the black mane and tail hairs the most during the "roaning" process, causing the black hairs to become very delicate as they are being replaced by white which makes them break off. It also affects the red hairs, but generally not to the same extent. I have LP horses that went from having total rat tails to having full, normal looking tails now that they are completely white. Whether the tail becomes full or not depends upon how quickly this process occurs - sometimes it is extremely fast and sometimes so slow that a horse will have a rat tail forever. There are many, many other genetic factors involved that either suppress or enhance this roaning process. True leopard patterned (PATN1) horses are born that way and do not go through the LP roaning process, whereas varnish roan (patn/patn) or blanketed (PATN2) all display this roaning to some degree. Besides this, there are individual family traits involved as variations of mane and tail thickness/length occurs in all breeds.


----------



## FoxHillFarm

Hi all,

I just wanted to let you know that my Remmelt 323 mare is confirmed in foal to the Knabstrupper stallion, Colorado Skrodstrup. The baby will be a Dressage machine. My Grand Prix Dressage trainer/rider really likes her. She has hair down to her forearm and down to her nose right now. Keep an eye out for the baby in May, 2012! Check both out at my website: www.foxhillfarm.yolasite.com


----------



## nicole25

Talk about beautiful! Oh my gosh! Where do I find one of these beauties.


----------



## morabhobbyhorse

Gorgeous, gorgeous animal.


----------



## Deslumbrar

FoxHillFarm said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I just wanted to let you know that my Remmelt 323 mare is confirmed in foal to the Knabstrupper stallion, Colorado Skrodstrup. The baby will be a Dressage machine. My Grand Prix Dressage trainer/rider really likes her. She has hair down to her forearm and down to her nose right now. Keep an eye out for the baby in May, 2012! Check both out at my website: www.foxhillfarm.yolasite.com


oh my gosh, that stallion looks incredible... gorgeous (BIG!) jump.


----------



## FoxHillFarm

Deslumbrar said:


> oh my gosh, that stallion looks incredible... gorgeous (BIG!) jump.


 
I know! I've fallen in love with him. We are very excited to see the babies come from our Friesian mare and 100% FPD Appaloosa mare. The Friesian cross should be a dressage horse deluxe and the Knab/App cross should be a good prospect for hunters or three day.


----------



## Laures

I personally like NEro (the white friesian stallion) more.
He's more..i dunno..he looks better.

'Thirty years ago, the German-based Hillner family received permission from the Dutch Queen to cross-breed several Friesian mares with Jalisco, an Arab stallion standing at stud at Gestuet Marbach, to get some fresh blood into the breed. Exactly one of the foals turned out grey -- a stallion named Negus. After he had spent the first twelve years of his life un-trained, he changed hands.

His new owner, Sylvia Parduhn, started schooling him and was very pleased with his "bomb-proof" character, which allowed her to start riding a stallion at this advanced age. Parduhn also bred several mares with him, and again, one of the foals turned out a grey stallion -- Nero, the now fourteen-year-old horse who impressed the Equitana crowds not only with his color but also with his exceptional gaits."

















White friesian - YouTube


----------



## Jamzimm101987

His name is Domino. He is an 3/4 Friesian and 1/4 Appaloosa stallion. I exhibited with Friesian Heritage at Midwest Horse Fair and he was part of our demo. He was also at WEG. He is a very fancy looking guy and does all sorts of tricks and dressage also I believe. He carries the grey gene. May produce grey offspring. I saw pictures of him as a baby and he was nearly black, so he will likely continue to fade. His color will not last forever, unfortunately!


----------



## Jamzimm101987

Yup, Mystic Warrior is correct


----------



## kgrlup

*appy cross*

Mystic Warrior was born in the late spring of 2006 (he is almost 7 months old now). He is located in Southern Pennsylvania near the Maryland border. 

 His dam the famous mare, Sequoia... an absolutely gorgeous 17 hand, half-Friesian who has been featured at Expos all around the country. Sequoia's dam is an Appy who stands over 16 hh, and her sire is an approved FPVZ Friesian named Thor. Sequoia is registered with the Friesian Blood Horse Registry. Sequoia has appeared in several of Mark Barrett's books and calendars as well, including the book "If I had a Horse" where she appears with her sire, Thor!  
Sequoia was bred to the Friesian stallion "Quinn", a baroque Dutch bred stallion imported from Holland (Quinn's sire is Teunis 332), and then the miracle that is known as Mystic Warrior was born!!! Mystic Warrior is going to make an astounding mount for Parades, Expos, Demos. He will be the center of attention everywhere he goes and will make one heck of a popular breeding stallion. He will sell quick at the first Expo that his owners take him to, so the window of opportunity to buy this colt is not going to last long. The owners would like to see Mystic Warrior go to a good home that will keep him a stallion, so he can pass his traits and color on for generations to come! He is absolutely loving and gentle and his personality is just like everything you have ever heard about this kind and gentle breed that is the Friesian horse.


----------



## notfartofall

I found some more xD, and omg check out this lil fella, both are friesian x appy


----------



## Calmwaters

Oh my gosh they are all stunning!


----------



## JustRide

This horse is SOOOO stunning. I have never seen a horse like this. Do you show this horse?


----------



## EthanQ

he is beautiful. but did it say he was a friesen? he could be a knabstupper crossed with a gypsy horse, ive seen one of those and it looked similiar to this, but i could be wrong


----------



## Hennessy

I don't think that's appaloosa... From what I've seen, those marks are far too clean to be appaloosa, but there is a breed ofhorse I work with called a Knabstrupper.. and the patterns on that horse are sharp and just like theirs. 










I think it's a knabstrupper x Fresian mix.


----------



## PoofyPony

> I don't think that's appaloosa... From what I've seen, those marks are far too clean to be appaloosa


Who said they are too 'clean' to be appaloosa? I've seen some very very strike leopard appaloosas who are just as ... clean and sharp with markings as all the other breeds posted here.


----------



## Hennessy

Yes, but despite him being a mix, he's not got the build of an app, but more of a knabstrupper. 

Knabstruppers are a draft breed and appaloosas are a light breed, bearing no draft resemblances within them whatsoever, so their builds are of course lighter and a touch shorter. They do, however, share the same genetics for appaloosas were bred into the knabstrupper lineage by three stallions, but there are still physical differences seen when you set them side by side. Draft and light. 

I work with horse rescue and we have both appaloosa and knabstruppers as well as many other breeds. I simply stated my opinion. You're free to state yours, but in my own opinion Knabstruppers appear to bear cleaner muscle tone and mark where as the appaloosa is a sturdy yet light horse with a more salt or peppered series of marks where Knabstruppers just look like they got rained on by paint rather perfectly. There's less blurring in their marks as there is with appaloosas. All in all, however, they're both beautiful breeds.

note; Oh.. Another thing... Knabstruppers are well known for bearing beautiful flowing manes and tails, too.


----------



## Gremmy

Knabstruppers aren't drafts, they have a warmblood-type build typical of many european breeds and like any light horse were intended for riding and harness. Their patterns also vary as much as North American appies do, solids do occur just like the appies - the bold leopard spot pattern evident in the stallion Apollon you posted is just more desireable.

Another thing to consider is the amount of variety in appaloosa build. Registered appies can carry quarter horse, TB, or arabian blood, and appies are frequently crossed with other breeds, including drafts. You would hardly be able to tell the difference between a knabstrupper and an appy/warmblood cross. As for the flowing manes and tails, I don't know the status of that in knabs but there are many appies who have no problems in that department - I wouldn't decide on that trait alone. Since true Knabstruppers are _extremely_ uncommon in North America I would be more inclined to believe this is indeed an appy cross.


----------



## Hennessy

Thank you for finding the word I was looking for. I knew it was between light and heavy, but couldn't find the word "Warmblood"when I was writing. lol As for what you said, yes, you're quite right. They do come in solid colours as well, but as for being uncommon... I've seen plenty of them.. Perhaps it's just the area in which I live, but there are knabstruppers about america,they're just not mentioned much.


----------



## Jamzimm101987

This stallion is 3/4 Friesian and 1/4 Appy. His name is Domino aka Mystic Warrior. I've exhibited in a Friesian expo and this horse was part of the expo as well.


----------



## Deslumbrar

His info has been reposted many, many times in this thread. ;-)

His breeder does have a number of Knabstrupper x Friesian crosses... a few really gorgeous examples have been posted as well a few pages back

He is, as Jamzimm said - Mystic Warrior, aka Domino. Sired by a Friesian and out of a Friesian-Appaloosa crossed mare.


----------



## Remali

He's gorgeous!!


----------



## tank

mystic warrior? thats what the horse looks like =DDD


----------



## Rosie S

the friesian society actually have a rule against cross breeding with friesians because at one point the friesian breed was close to becoming wiped out as there are so few pure friesians left, which is how you get odd traits slipping through every now and again. and im actually guessing that it may be friesian x Andalusian cross with an appy which is how the colour gene has slipped through. If he was half friesian the genes would be too dominant for the leopard colourings.


----------



## Theresa1

Jamzimm101987 said:


> His name is Domino. He is an 3/4 Friesian and 1/4 Appaloosa stallion. I exhibited with Friesian Heritage at Midwest Horse Fair and he was part of our demo. He was also at WEG. He is a very fancy looking guy and does all sorts of tricks and dressage also I believe. He carries the grey gene. May produce grey offspring. I saw pictures of him as a baby and he was nearly black, so he will likely continue to fade. His color will not last forever, unfortunately!


I knew I had seen him at the Midwest Horse Fair! He is as beautiful as the picture portrays. He has been there more than once if i'm not mistaken.


----------



## Deslumbrar

Rosie S said:


> the friesian society actually have a rule against cross breeding with friesians because at one point the friesian breed was close to becoming wiped out as there are so few pure friesians left, which is how you get odd traits slipping through every now and again. and im actually guessing that it may be friesian x Andalusian cross with an appy which is how the colour gene has slipped through. If he was half friesian the genes would be too dominant for the leopard colourings.


The genes for Appaloosa spotting are totally separate from the gene that makes a horse black. How dominant Friesian genetics are has nothing to do with wether a horse is spotted or not. Spotting (such as leopard markings in Appaloosa and Knabstrup horses, most commonly known) is caused by the Leopard complex gene, usually denoted as Lp - A horse either has a dominant allele of this gene or they dont.

This particular horse is out of a Friesian-Appaloosa mare that IS spotted simply because she managed to get a Leopard Complex gene through the family tree. And then he got lucky enough to get HER same gene passed down


----------



## Friesianspirit

That IS Mystic Warrior I have followed him his entire life, his owner is my FB friend. His dam was 1/2 friesian 1/2 appy...sire full friesian. He also has a grey gene that is why his spots are fading.


----------



## FoxHillFarm

*My new guy*

Yes, the Lp gene is simply that tricky if you take the gamble. I did so with a bay based few-spot leopard stallion with my Friesian mare and got a rabicano bay colt this spring. He is the sweetest thing and will make a lovely dressage horse. He's for sale...anyone????? :wink: If he doesn't sell, I will still be proud to own such a nice horse. He will be gelded in a few months.

www.foxhillfarm.yolasite.com

Desiree


----------



## althea444

of cours hes not pure... 
but he is stunning


----------



## Friesianspirit

There has been a lot of talk about Mystic warrior lately and someone posted a link to this thread. Mystic was on the cover of a magazine and it mistakenly said he was a purebred. Which of course confused many people. Friesians are only allowed to be black within the FPS registry. Sometimes a chestnut will pop up or even rarer, a grey. A long time ago Friesians were almost extinct and some outbreeding occured leading to an odd gene here and there.


----------



## Silent one

Love love love the Friesian crosses! I always used to want a purebred until I spent some time with them and they are just too heavy for me and the kind of trail riding I do. But I am crazy about the Friesian crosses and have seen so many wonderful examples. Here's Dragon, my guy, Friesian/Saddlebred cross.

My little niece riding Dragon this Easter at church campout/trail ride.










Playing in the field










Friend riding Dragon when he was four


----------



## Friesianspirit

Very nice cross!!! Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Flickergurl21

He is absolutely gorgeous!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SplashedOvero

Hes beautiful


----------



## Muppetgirl

If I had a horse that looked like that I wouldn't sleep at night for fear of him being stolen!


----------



## GhostwindAppaloosa

FoxHillFarm said:


> Yes, the Lp gene is simply that tricky if you take the gamble. I did so with a bay based few-spot leopard stallion with my Friesian mare and got a rabicano bay colt this spring. He is the sweetest thing and will make a lovely dressage horse. He's for sale...anyone????? :wink: If he doesn't sell, I will still be proud to own such a nice horse. He will be gelded in a few months.
> 
> www.foxhillfarm.yolasite.com
> 
> Desiree


 You sure he was a true fewspot? You should of had characteristics no matter what color mare with a fewspot.


----------



## horsietori

I think this would be the only Frisian cross I would ever buy... STUNNING!!!


----------



## Cait

Absolutely stunning! 

There is a woman in my area that breeds Friesian/Appaloosa crosses. I have always admired Friesians, but I must say, this lady's crosses don't impress me. It could just be her program, but they are just ok for me.


----------



## Faceman

GhostwindAppaloosa said:


> You sure he was a true fewspot? You should of had characteristics no matter what color mare with a fewspot.


I assume she is talking about FHF Zagreus on her website. If so, Colorado Skrodstrup, the sire listed, is certainly not a fewspot...
http://foxhillfarm.yolasite.com/reference-stallions.php

FoxhillFarm, correct me if I am wrong about which rabicano you mean...


----------



## Druydess

Check out this guy and be sure to look at his coloring as a foal-- it's stunning!

Mystic Warrior


----------



## Chiilaa

Druydess said:


> Check out this guy and be sure to look at his coloring as a foal-- it's stunning!
> 
> Mystic Warrior


It is, but he is a grey, so the spots will be completely gone soon.


----------



## Druydess

Chiilaa said:


> It is, but he is a grey, so the spots will be completely gone soon.


I know-- seems so sad -..lol..


----------

