# Critique my New 2YO QH gelding!! :D



## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

The photos aren't good for a critique so I won't do that, but I would say I wouldn't work him quite so hard yet. He's young and still immature looking. Also it looks like your saddle is a little to far forward judging by the sweat patterns. Do you have any other photos?


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## 3ringburner (Feb 8, 2014)

It was the pad, it didnt correctly fit the saddle and the saddle sucks.. Its just a colt breaking saddle. I have one more but its also from today and its like the top one.And we didnt work him too hard today but we did get him moving. and i didnt stay on him that long.


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## 3ringburner (Feb 8, 2014)

Bump! Top photo he is perfectly squared up, how are his hocks, pasterns, back, neck, butt?/


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## Kyro (Apr 15, 2012)

Sorry to burst your bubble but in the top photo he isn't perfectly squared up. If you look at where his front legs are in comparison to his back legs..then the front is more forward. That's because the picture wasn't taken at the exact correct angle. 

But it's okay. It is very hard to take a perfect conformation photo. 

About critique.. I don't know if that's the way he's standing, but his back legs are camped under. And he even seems to stand under in the front too.. Butt high (which is OK for a 2 y.o), ewe neck - maybe it's because of the picture angle. His back seems a tad long but I might be wrong about that. That's all I have right now. Nothing bad, really - depends on what you plan to do with him. 

But ofcourse, he's a cutie. Seems like he has a lovely personality.


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## Cynical25 (Mar 7, 2013)

What are your plans for him? I like him, really interested in how he will mature. I can see why you took a chance on this one.

He does look a bit camped under behind, and I'd like to see if he naturally stands with the front so far under himself. Does that front left turn out or is it camera angle? Shoulder may be a bit upright, but again hard to tell from camera angles and leg placement. I don't see an ewe neck, just an underdeveloped neck appropriate to a horse of his age who isn't in work yet.

He looks pretty immature to me, too; I'd personally leave him on pasture another 6 months or so before really putting him to work, maybe do some walk/trot ground driving or in-hand trail work if you're really antsy.


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## 3ringburner (Feb 8, 2014)

Sorry, dad was antsy and was in a hurry for me to take the pics. His left does not turn out, it was just the was he was standing. his back legs do go under him, and he usually doesnt stand that far under himself. We arent going to be doing a whole lot just teaching him the basics. Then just doing trails for a couple of months intell he leaves that green stage. We arent going to push him as hard as we could as he is still young! The pics are angled weird, shouldve took my time but he likes to move as well! What do you guys think about his pasterns and his Cannon Bones and his hocks and how does his butt look? Is it rounded, straight, slanted??? Im usually alright about critiquing conformation but i dont want to give him to much credit being his momma!


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## 3ringburner (Feb 8, 2014)

*Pic update!*

These are pics from today! We lounged, then tacked up, then lounged, then flexed, then i hopped on, Then we walked around a lil bit, then we called it a day since he was doing really good and then i untacked him, then i walked him around the arena, then dad washed him off with the water hose, then i brushed him out, then i let him go! He did pretty good today!Oh and he didnt make me run in his paddock today!!!  the pic of him in his paddock is after i let him go!


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## 3ringburner (Feb 8, 2014)

The pic of someone holding on to him in his paddock is from 2 days ago!


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

Cute little guy. But he has a lot of developing to do before you ask much of him.
All saddles should fit correctly...even a colt breaking saddle. This process will be tough for him if his back hurts. He's going to be green for a lot longer than a couple of months. 
Go slow. Don't push him. Let him grow and develop and down the road you should have a nice saddle horse.


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## 3ringburner (Feb 8, 2014)

Actually this saddle completely sucks. Its been on 2 of our horses and it just plain sucks. He didnt show any signs of his back hurting. I ran my had down and didnt feel any knots and he didnt flinch or anything. I know hes going to be green. Hes young and doesnt know anything! He will be green for probably around 6 months! We are very well prepared for it! We are going pretty slow and its almost as if he wants to learn more. I think he will top off around 15H. His dad was 15.2 and his mom was 15.1. His knees are put together. And he holds me very well. He doesnt show signs of Being to weak.. I am a smaller rider and have done this before and i have seen tons of others being broke out!


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## 3ringburner (Feb 8, 2014)

And in the pic you can see he is resting his right hind leg, so obviously he can handle my weight if he is cocking his leg!! lol


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## Tryst (Feb 8, 2012)

When does he turn three?

Cute little guy. There are a lot of things you can do to work with him from the ground too which will help him gain more confidence and solidity once he is more under saddle, like desensitizing him and getting him walking over various obstacles.


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## 3ringburner (Feb 8, 2014)

He turns 3 on April 3rd of next year! I have actually been working on gaining respect as he has little to none for me. I was looking for things around my place to take over and have him walk around/ over it but couldnt quiet find any thing....... Any ideas on how to gain more respect? i know he trusts me but he has very little respect towards me.


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## Kayella (Feb 11, 2012)

Everyone has already picked at his conformation, but I want to agree with everyone about taking things slow. I myself have a 2 year old, just turned 2 April 23rd. Everyone at my barn is pressuring me to break him now, but I won't be backing him until he is at least 3. He's only had the saddle on a couple times. I'm waiting because he is just as immature as your guy. I would rather wait a year so he is more physically and mentally ready than rush him now because I'm too impatient and fry his baby brain or wreck his joints. 

His knees are not fused, and won't be for another couple years. His spine is not completely developed and won't be for another couple years. His attention span is that of a child, it is very easy to overwhelm them no matter how easy you think you're taking things. Use the next year doing groundwork to gain his respect and trust and develop a bond. Do all the groundwork that goes with riding, just don't ride him. Take him everywhere, desensitize him to as much as possible, ground drive him. There's so much you can do on the ground to mentally prepare him for riding without actually riding him. 

At the end of the day it's your horse and you can do what you want with him, but coming from a fellow 2 year old horse owner, I would wait. Starting them now is not worth risking future soundness, imo. Waiting a year to break him could mean getting more years of riding him down the road when he doesn't break down so early from being ridden while still going through a major growth period.


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## 3ringburner (Feb 8, 2014)

ok thanks guys.


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## jmike (Aug 21, 2013)

3ringburner said:


> He turns 3 on April 3rd of next year! I have actually been working on gaining respect as he has little to none for me. I was looking for things around my place to take over and have him walk around/ over it but couldnt quiet find any thing....... Any ideas on how to gain more respect? i know he trusts me but he has very little respect towards me.


only 2 days younger than mine  -- pretty looking guy

i have only been on mine twice -- 10 minutes in April and 15 minutes last week

they just aren't ready at that age --- but there are so many other things that can be done --- mostly showmanship type stuff

start teaching him how to move his different body parts -- fore-quarter tields, hind quarter yields, 

then some suppling exercises --- get him to stand still and bend his neck to each side

then lead him, walk him, straight lines, serpentines, figure 8's --- that will get him paying attention to you

then some forward and backward -- facing him, walk backwards and he should walk towards you, teach him whoa (whoa is a big big thing and you should get a nice crisp stop) ... make him walk backwards, go back and whoa, go forward and whoa --- rinse and repeat

get him doing all of those things well, get him responsive, and get him supple

should be enough work to keep him busy for the next few months

(i am working on the same things currently and still have at least 3 months to go with my filly)


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## Atomicodyssey (Apr 13, 2014)

I had a three year old barely broken once and I rarely got on him, and when I did it was fifteen minutes of walk trot. I did a lot of ground work and I would take him on trail walks. Before he was ridden on trails he was already familiar with a lot of it (and I got in better shape as a result) even though I wasn't riding hardly at all we still had fun. That's a sacrifice you have to make taking on such a young horse, if you plan on extending their use ability over the course of their life. Plus they tend to be such "baby brained" it's not really much fun to ride anyway lol! Good luck with your guy he's very cute and gotta love a black horse! Though mine is currently looking like a dark bay.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

He has a very steep shoulder, and long, upright pasterns. His neck ties into his shoulder at a very high point, he has a long neck though, but immature muscling, so he is good at rubbernecking at this point in his life, which is why I would not consider riding him, that could become a habit under saddle. He has a flat croup, and small, foal like gaskins. His back is nice, decent withers. Front legs are fine, knees ok, however he has high hocks in the back. This is a nice little guy, and he will be even nicer if he is allowed to mature before you start putting pressure on him. Turn him out into grassy pasture, let him get some nutrients from the green grass so he can bloom. Right now, he looks unthrifty, with a dull coat and pot belly.


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## 3ringburner (Feb 8, 2014)

jmike said:


> only 2 days younger than mine  -- pretty looking guy
> 
> i have only been on mine twice -- 10 minutes in April and 15 minutes last week
> 
> ...



I have done this! he knows everything already! He is awesome at whoa! pretty good at backing! Awsome flexing (standing still and moving head side to side.) he follows me every where, Yields hind and forequarters, he knows pressure and release like a champ! This is what im saying i know hes ready! I can tell he wants to learn more!


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## 3ringburner (Feb 8, 2014)

waresbear said:


> He has a very steep shoulder, and long, upright pasterns. His neck ties into his shoulder at a very high point, he has a long neck though, but immature muscling, so he is good at rubbernecking at this point in his life, which is why I would not consider riding him, that could become a habit under saddle. He has a flat croup, and small, foal like gaskins. His back is nice, decent withers. Front legs are fine, knees ok, however he has high hocks in the back. This is a nice little guy, and he will be even nicer if he is allowed to mature before you start putting pressure on him. Turn him out into grassy pasture, let him get some nutrients from the green grass so he can bloom. Right now, he looks unthrifty, with a dull coat and pot belly.



Thank you this is what i wanted! A critique about him! he hasnt started rubbernecking yet but we know how to prevent that.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

He will remember all that until next year, turn him out, let him cook some more. If you think he's good now, next year he could be great. Good things come to those who wait, keep that in mind.


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## 3ringburner (Feb 8, 2014)

Ok. hes 2. He is supposed to be worked with at 2. I cant afford to pay for another years worth of pasture ornimates. My dad has been training horses for 20 years and has always started his colts out at 2. Only one has become lame and that was because of a rock he got deep in his foot. He is able to carry a rider and doesnt even act like it bothers him. He is ready. I know he is. I can tell hes ready to learn more and he wants to learn more.


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## BarrelracingArabian (Mar 31, 2010)

at 2 yes they are ready to start but lightly. They are still not mature in the head nor body. Just be aware, my trainer has a running bred filly she got at 2 in rough shape, started bulking her up filly shot up and my trainer noticed she was over at the knee all of a sudden(she was stright when she picked her up). Due to too much good feed too fast she shot up too quickly or her body to adjust. The filly wasn't physically ready for hard work till recently as a 5 yr old per the vets recommendation from x-rays. Mentally she is still pretty immature.


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## 3ringburner (Feb 8, 2014)

Atomicodyssey said:


> I had a three year old barely broken once and I rarely got on him, and when I did it was fifteen minutes of walk trot. I did a lot of ground work and I would take him on trail walks. Before he was ridden on trails he was already familiar with a lot of it (and I got in better shape as a result) even though I wasn't riding hardly at all we still had fun. That's a sacrifice you have to make taking on such a young horse, if you plan on extending their use ability over the course of their life. Plus they tend to be such "baby brained" it's not really much fun to ride anyway lol! Good luck with your guy he's very cute and gotta love a black horse! Though mine is currently looking like a dark bay.



Lol, we dont even trot yet its just like 5 minuets of walk and thats it! And i think hes going to be a dark bay by the end of summer! haha  good luck with your horse!


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Well, it's your horse and certain people have certain ways of doing things, but I am just giving you some advice from the experiences I have had with training horses for the public and training my own, starting 40 years ago. Back in the day, a trainer was considered "slack" to let a horse go past 3 without being started under saddle. Some horses, especially the more mature looking ones, handled it just fine, others, not so well. Yes, they start out fine, especially the nice, gentled ones, such as your boy, but that's the honeymoon phase. They develop all sorts of soreness issues later on which can & do start affect them performance wise, after seeing this too many times, I just don't chance it with a nice horse. Yes I have trained immature 3 year olds for people, I refused the two year olds, only because if I didn't, and I don't weight that much, they would have taken them down the road to someone else who would've stressed the animal even more. I see your point for pasture ornaments, but letting a horse's mind and physical body development is not ornamental, is beneficial. Whatever you decide, best of luck to you.


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## 3ringburner (Feb 8, 2014)

BarrelracingArabian said:


> at 2 yes they are ready to start but lightly. They are still not mature in the head nor body. Just be aware, my trainer has a running bred filly she got at 2 in rough shape, started bulking her up filly shot up and my trainer noticed she was over at the knee all of a sudden(she was stright when she picked her up). Due to too much good feed too fast she shot up too quickly or her body to adjust. The filly wasn't physically ready for hard work till recently as a 5 yr old per the vets recommendation from x-rays. Mentally she is still pretty immature.



thank you for commenting! And we have been watching for things like that and he seems to be taking stuff really good! And we have only been working with walking under saddle


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## 3ringburner (Feb 8, 2014)

waresbear said:


> Well, it's your horse and certain people have certain ways of doing things, but I am just giving you some advice from the experiences I have had with training horses for the public and training my own, starting 40 years ago. Back in the day, a trainer was considered "slack" to let a horse go past 3 without being started under saddle. Some horses, especially the more mature looking ones, handled it just fine, others, not so well. Yes, they start out fine, especially the nice, gentled ones, such as your boy, but that's the honeymoon phase. They develop all sorts of soreness issues later on which can & do start affect them performance wise, after seeing this too many times, I just don't chance it with a nice horse. Yes I have trained immature 3 year olds for people, I refused the two year olds, only because if I didn't, and I don't weight that much, they would have taken them down the road to someone else who would've stressed the animal even more. I see your point for pasture ornaments, but letting a horse's mind and physical body development is not ornamental, is beneficial. Whatever you decide, best of luck to you.


Thank you. And we have been watching for red flags, and i completely understand where your coming at and sorry if i kinda bit your head off.


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## Atomicodyssey (Apr 13, 2014)

You can do as you wish with your horse, but they still have a lot of maturing to do both physically and mentally at this age. If there's any proof that starting early and working does damage, simply look at the racehorse industry. Of course I don't expect you will be running your horse soon, but if you plan on keeping a sound and healthy horse for the next 20+ years a year or two of taking it slow is a good bargain to ensure this.

No matter what you do, you will be paying for the horse. Unless you are planning on doing something with him that involves making money (please tell me how to do this! LOL) it doesn't change.

I used to ride my poor dog when I was a kid. Was she able to carry me? Yes. Was it good for her? Probably not, by the way my parents yelled at me.


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## 3ringburner (Feb 8, 2014)

I completely understand. And i most likely wont be racing this one as he is HIGHLY cow bred. I wont be making him run hard, i wont push him to his fullest, I am aware he will be green for 6+ months. My dad and i actually broke a 5 YO QH gelding last year and guess what he was 100% mature and HE CAME UP LAME.


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## 3ringburner (Feb 8, 2014)

Of course we did fix it as there was a sollution for it. And those race horses come up lame because they were ran so hard. All race horses eventually come up lame.


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## Atomicodyssey (Apr 13, 2014)

Some horses will just be unsound no matter what you do. Conformation and hooves, all comes down to genetics that play a big part. Some racehorses stay sound and race til they are in the double digits, I really admire those old warriors as they must be built of steel! As I say you can do as you wish with your horse but if you insist on riding try to keep it minimal. Sometimes especially with the young baby brained horses short, infrequent sessions stick more with them than repetitive drills. Are there any other older horses on your property that you can ride more frequently to get your fix?


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## 3ringburner (Feb 8, 2014)

Thats the thing about opinions, every one is entitled to their own. Thanks for your guy's input!


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## amgThoroughbreds (Aug 14, 2013)

3ringburner said:


> Thats the thing about opinions, every one is entitled to their own. Thanks for your guy's input!


Everyone is just trying to help guide you in the right direction, no one is being opinionated. It is all science. A horse is physically not ready at 2. 

I was in your place at one point too. I have a two year old that I have raised since he was 10 months old. I figured once he turned two I would get on and start riding (of course nothing heavy, just walks). I have been on his back but I wouldn't even consider riding at this moment. He is very immature looking just like your guy. I take him everywhere and do absolutely everything I would do with any of my other horses just not under saddle.

There are so many knowledgeable people on this forum that have taught me a lot. It is worth just giving it a thought.


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## ToManyHorsesAndOnePony (Oct 16, 2013)

All those race horses come up lame because of being started to soon...... Which is what your doing. He's a really nice looking horse, however parts of him obviously look coltish and not at all like a horse. The saddle, and person. Look HUGE on him because he's not yet ready to carry them.. When I saw the one with someone sitting on him I had to look twice to make sure it was the same horse because it makes him look tiny, more like a yearling than a 2yr old. I have one of those horses that a trainer started at two because he was "Ready" for it. He is 9 now, has back issues. Leg issues. And even his neck shoulders and hips were effected. Now later in his life, that the trainer doesn't have to deal with it. The knees don't come togeather for a few more years. And theres no way his back is as it should be, let alone his mind. Even longeing isn't recomended for young horses as its not good for the developing joints. He may seem ready now, or it could just be you wanting to push him because he's already learned what he should know so quickly. But in a few years his body will tell you otherwise. Unless your very very lucky


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

I agree with everyone. He's a very immature-looking 2yo. Heck, if you were to put a pic up and ask for guesses on his age, I would have said he was a yearling. He just doesn't look mentally ready for anything other than some lunge work.

We started my gelding as a 2yo. We did mostly walk, a tiny bit of trot, a few trail rides, and then he got to be a pasture ornament after the first year because my work schedule got crazy. Now he's 5 and I am SO glad I was forced to give him two years off. Not only did he grow physically, but he grew mentally. Things that were an issue before under saddle are all but gone. I don't feel bad asking him to trot or lope under saddle (not that I've loped him yet, but my best friend has). And keep in mind that he was a 15hh 1100lbs 2yo when he was started. I had people asking me if I was sure he was only two. 

Just my two cents and you can take it or leave it...but if so many people are saying the exact same thing, maybe we can't all be wrong. Just a thought.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

amgThoroughbreds said:


> Everyone is just trying to help guide you in the right direction, no one is being opinionated.


 Actually, we are being opinionated. You post here and you will get opinions.
An immature 2 year old and a saddle that "sucks" (OP's comment, not mine) is not a good thing.
Another opinion of mine is that we are wasting our time.
I wish the best for that nice little horse.


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## 3ringburner (Feb 8, 2014)

Okay. how are you judging that his mind is to immature if you dont even know him???? He is very mature for his age. He doesnt play around, and he listens and has a very long attention span. He is my horse and i will do as i please. They have yearlings on the place and my horse looks like a 3 year old compared to them. Im done here. This is pathetic. Bye and "Thanks" for your time.


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## Larissa (Jan 25, 2014)

You have been given great advice by many. You're gonna do what your gonna do. Only in time will it be revieled if and how it effects him. At least concider what the others have said, for the sake of the horse please. Just think about it. Theres so much you should do with him, that isnt ridng. Longe lining, ground driving, lunging over poles and tarps and all sorts of things. If you are going to ride him, please not to oftenly. And keep an eye on that saddle, just making sure it isnt making him sore as time goes on. The people who responded like you did, have all been incorrect, unhappy with what they heard, etc. If you have all these people telling you the same thing, it means there is a reason. They aren't bsing you. They're looking out for the horse. Yes, maybe he wants to learn. But you have to think about his body too. Physically he is not ready for a lot. And he just turned two. Its not like he is almost three, but hardly two. Try not to get so offended. Everybody here wants to help


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## Soccergoalie322 (May 20, 2014)

The truth sucks sometimes. Try to learn from the people who take their time to try and help. They sure have helped me quite a bit...he sure is a beauty.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

not good pics for confo. In these pics i saw camped under, toed out , not as butt high as a lot of the cutting horses i have seen. , ewe neck but it could be the mane the angle of pic, 
He is still a baby and growing , and his looks will be different another year or two. 
You dont want a super fast growth on him our Doc o Lena horses that we had really grew after age 3-4 .


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## mortitia (Sep 12, 2012)

More of a question than a critique

Is it normal to start horses at 2yo there? In the UK we don't tend to touch them until 3 and then turn them away over winter until they are 4.

I have a 2yr old filly and a 2yr old gelding both home bred and we have only just got as far as leading out. I hate to think what would happen if I tried to put a saddle on them 

Nice looking horse tho


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

mortitia said:


> More of a question than a critique
> 
> Is it normal to start horses at 2yo there? In the UK we don't tend to touch them until 3 and then turn them away over winter until they are 4.
> 
> ...


It's more common in western disciplines, especially when there's futurities involved. Big money to be made in futurities.


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## 3ringburner (Feb 8, 2014)

ok, i wasnt asking a question. I know to start colts at 2. And no futurities are involved.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

3ringburner said:


> ok, i wasnt asking a question. I know to start colts at 2. And no futurities are involved.


I wasn't referring to you in my answer to the other poster. I was stating that futurities are the main reason why it became ok to start horses at 2 instead of waiting a little longer until the mature more. Even on ranches, where they need every able-bodied horse they can use, they still wait until 3-4 to start breaking out their horses. The futurities are what got it into everyone's heads that it is perfectly alright to start horses at 2 (sometimes earlier).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kayella (Feb 11, 2012)

Thoroughbreds are also raced at the age of two, so they actually begin training around 18 months old I believe. 

I'm going to give you an example of something you can do with your boy rather than riding. A fellow boarder had a birthday party for her niece at the barn today. My 2 year old stood for two hours while a group of girls painted him, screamed and ran around him. He didn't bat an eye because of all the groundwork that I've put into him since I first got him when he was 5 months old. He was perfectly patient and well behaved the entire time, something most horses twice or three times his age wouldn't do. 

My point is, don't rush things. He did not become this well trained over two or three days. Take things slow, let him think on things. You may think he's ready, but there are things I still need to improve on with Henny, and I've been training him almost 2 years. Again, he is your horse and you can do as you please, we are just trying to ensure this horse stays healthy and happy for many years to come, just as we would any other horse.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

OMG! Kayella, that is such a precious picture!! Good Henny for being so incredibly patient.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kayella (Feb 11, 2012)

Thank you! His other side is just as colorful. :lol: He was such a good boy, I am super proud of him.


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## 3ringburner (Feb 8, 2014)

Drafty i was referring to the post before yours also, except about the futurity thing. Lol

Kayella hes very pretty painted


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## Larissa (Jan 25, 2014)

Everybody just wants to see the best here for you and the horse in the long run. Some of your posts sound very snipey. So keep in mind all people have done is try to help. Yes you asked for a critique, but we also all saw something that could be not so great for him. So thats why it got pointed out.


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## ZaneyZanne123 (Nov 9, 2013)

Kayella said:


> Thoroughbreds are also raced at the age of two, so they actually begin training around 18 months old I believe.
> 
> I'm going to give you an example of something you can do with your boy rather than riding. A fellow boarder had a birthday party for her niece at the barn today. My 2 year old stood for two hours while a group of girls painted him, screamed and ran around him. He didn't bat an eye because of all the groundwork that I've put into him since I first got him when he was 5 months old. He was perfectly patient and well behaved the entire time, something most horses twice or three times his age wouldn't do.
> 
> My point is, don't rush things. He did not become this well trained over two or three days. Take things slow, let him think on things. You may think he's ready, but there are things I still need to improve on with Henny, and I've been training him almost 2 years. Again, he is your horse and you can do as you please, we are just trying to ensure this horse stays healthy and happy for many years to come, just as we would any other horse.


 

Now thats a paint horse. now thats a colour scheme I would breed for. LOL  Patient horse.


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