# Please critique us.



## Cherrij (Jan 30, 2013)

Hello, I have posted before, but now we are one step forwards with out training, or actually a few leaps forwards, so I would like to see what other see.
Yes, I know my hands move too much in canter, but this is first time in ages I am trying to sit his canter, as due to the weird leg patterns it is not comfy.
I keep losing my stirrups when trying to move him forwards, but I also have learnt to pick them up even in canter or raising trot, or sitting trot. 





I would love to hear what you think of this poor woolly mamooth  He loves to work though, and is improving fast.


----------



## xJumperx (Feb 19, 2012)

I didn't watch all the way through, but one thing I must mention is that you have got to quiet those hands. You are catching him in the mouth every other step, and it is causing him to brace his neck and run through the bridle. Stretch up in the saddle, stop rounding your shoulders, and isolate your upper body. Think about just moving your hips with the motion, not your entire body. Keep your elbows nice and relaxed, and go with the motion of his mouth and not against it. Once you can steady your hands, you'll be able to start helping him balance and round up, making his canter much more enjoyable to ride.


----------



## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

If this is your third lesson, as the title says, you are doing pretty good. Relax your back and stick your chest out. Also, get your toes up, not heels down, but toes UP, it actually contributes to a better seat. As for your hands, totally relax your elbows.


----------



## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

You're following nicely but those toes down and locked arms are no good, girl!

Why are your toes down? Usually it means you're gripping somewhere and it's usually your knees. That or your stirrups may be too long for you.. either or you don't have a secure leg right now.

Your locked arms.. it's all the tightness in your shoulders and elbows. Loosen up, and go with it.


----------



## HunterJumperShow (Dec 29, 2013)

Overall, not too bad for being a beginner! Give yourself some credit 

I would suggest a whole week of some self torture, as I call it, and remove your stirrups from your saddle. You're pinching with your knee a lot, think of relaxing and moving down through your heel so you grip with your calf, knee, and thigh. Try more walking work so you can visualize these things without having to worry too much about the horse.

Also, look up! Looking down is slumping your shoulders forward, which also puts you ahead of the motion and your leg back. Think like you're a queen walking through a court of royals, that you're too good for everyone else and you're sticking your nose up at them! Silly metaphor, but it really does help. 

Think light hands and relax, move more through your elbow. Picture that your forearm is a rubber band and grab mane until you learn your horse's motion better. 

You're riding in a dressage saddle, which can be hard to develop strong legs in, is there anyway you could find a normal jumping saddle to ride in? Then you can work back to dressage when you've built up a good core foundation. You really need to work on your heels and balance, which would benefit more in a forward flapped saddle. 

Your horse is very strung out here and hollow backed, but seems willing to work. He needs to get his bum under him more which will benefit a lot from you gaining better leg strength and position so you can push him better into an efficient frame.


----------



## Cherrij (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks for responses. 
I am not a total beginner, but with him I feel like it. Just a few months ago I was riding a warmblood and never had any of these issues.
1) If I was not keen on doing dressage, I would quit trying to sit his canter - just keep doing it in half seat. But even with him I want to try dressage.
2) I think my hands were also so bad, as I started to try to sit more back (I always have this problem due to my back) and therefore some things went out of wack.. 
3) He was not clamping against anything btw... 
4) Explain TOES UP please? I have always been taught heels down. Here toes went down, because this horse needs a serious drive to stay in canter.. he will raise it easy, but he just does not want to canter.. so my legs went into his sides.. 
5) I do not clamp with my knee.. it was more my calves pushing into his sides, to keep the forward canter (he has a massive issue with canter). I used to clamp with my knees in a jumping saddle, and then my trainer changed me.. 
6)we do have a universal saddle, but I cannot sit in that one at all... 
7) oh ye, I was told to stick my nose up, but as I was having difficulty with him and canter, I ended up looking lower down again, trying to make a corridor for him with my legs and hands, when also trying to sit, and then push him forwards.. in half seat that is SO much easier 
8 ) before you call this horse hollow backed and whatnot, did you watch the trot? He is going forwards, he is slightly downhill built, he has had mysterious past, and even in the video you can see that his bum was working as there is foam between his legs.. 

I thank you for all the critique and welcome more 
Of course I will keep working harder on all of those things..


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

this horse is draft or part, no? I can sympathize with his movement and way of going being a bit of a challenge at canter. Z is the same. I can ride it in half seat but struggle with sitting down and riding the canter seated.

advice given that I would like to repeat:

look up! this is more important than just seeing wehre you are going.

do not round your back.

connect your elbows to your core and engage it, but do NOT let that cause you to grip up, which is what I see happening. your calf coming up you say is because you are keeping it on to keep him going in the canter, but you would be better off to keep it down by the girth and instead of "gripping or squeezing" , brush him with the inside bone of your ankle, the sharp one? and if one brush won't do it, "flutter your ankle" and if that doesn't get him to go forward, lay on the crop, because it's too late for more leg by that time.

instead of focusing on having him soften at the poll downward (dropping his head), look to get him to soften to the inside. that inside bend will be more helpful than having him just tuck his chin down.


----------



## HunterJumperShow (Dec 29, 2013)

I attached a good visual so you know what I mean by hollow backed.  It's more of a put-together frame. I was pointing out the fact he is not 'lifted up' as in the image provided. Nothing wrong! It's just a simple thing to keep in mind because while we improve as riders, we must help our companions get better as well. Riding in a rounded frame is effective and will help build up and improve said choppy (or how you describe them) movements he has. 

I think by toes up the other poster meant heels down. It's another way of visualizing. You can either think of keeping your heels down, or if it helps you picture it better- imagine pointing your toes in the air. Same thing.

You can make a corridor with your eyes up, it's a nasty habit to develop- try not to look down to see what you are doing. Instead watch from your peripheral . You can make a corridor easily by widening your hands apart so that your hands make the two top points of a 'V' and your horse's mouth is the focal point. Push from behind, try and visualize squeezing toothpaste out of a tube with your legs (if that makes sense hahahaha).

Your heels do not have to come up to drive, again a bad habit. No stirrup work will help here because your drive will come from your calf, when you lift up your heel it automatically pinches your knee, but a defensive ride without stirrups usually prevents the heel lifting.


----------



## Cherrij (Jan 30, 2013)

He is part Latvian Driving/harness horse. Though the rest of them usually do not have such movement.. but it is seen to happen. They are kinda half draft breed. 

I will try to remember this all for the next lesson (hopefully next sunday if the weather allows) and whenever I work with him again.. 

Hunter, I know the frame stuff, but this little fellow does work his hind and his back even when his head is out.. a lot of people have told me, his back is nice and strong.. plus, riding into the frame starts from the back, and getting the head down is the last point.. which we are kinda at at the moment. He has started to go down, seek contact, try to find his place, he does this about 30 times in a minute... we just need to keep workin


----------



## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

I am in work so can't see the video, but will view it when I get home.

A horse cannot correctly work from his hind end and through his back with his nose sticking up. A strong back and an active hind end is a good start, but sweat between the hind legs does not mean he is working.

A horse does not need to be up on the contact in a consistent frame for an entire ride, but the horse does need to be on the contact throughout,whether it be long and low or in a 'frame'

I will see the video and take it from there.


----------



## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

You two are looking great! He is such a looker <3

The two biggest things that I had to critique were your hands/arms, as you mentioned. Focus on keeping them quiet and in front of you. You're not trying to fly away 
The other thing is to sink down into your heels: this will help with the issue of your leg swinging at the canter.


----------



## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

The reason your boy is finding it hard to keep the canter is because he is green and unbalanced. It is absolutely normal. However, instead of pushing for a bad canter and letting him get strung out and then lose any sense of rhythm, which then leads you to fall out of position and it all goes down from there... Aim for half a circle of canter then come back, do something else, and then ask again.

Your hands need to be a lot quieter. So does your seat. He looks fairly comfortable, just think about keeping yourself and your seat together rather than landing heavily on his back. Until you sort your hands, you aren't going to teach him to come softly and willingly on to the bit.

Thirdly, in a trot he starts to drop his head. HOWEVER he very clearly has two trots. The trot where he is with no contact looks steppy and stiff. He is not moving through his back at all. However, at times you come together and he searches for the contact...that is really good! But you need to be able to encourage that with quiet hands.

I would seriously recommend you get a saddle strap or some bailing twine to make one on your saddle. I had to with my youngster. Sometimes they decide they like to drop... And then pull down and I can see the start of it. It means when he starts to pull pull... Not drop into a contact, but pull to unseat and drag his head down, you can hold on to that string with your outside rein and he pulls against himself. It took three rides and my youngster sorted himself out.

I am not sure if it was only for video sake, or what your normal plan is when you ride him... But get off whole school and 20m circles. Shake it up a bit... One loop serpentines, 12m circles (do not let him run these, the aim is to try an get his hind end more active and tucked under himself and to help him drop his head), turns out of the corner. And transitions. They are your best friend. And at this age, it is what he needs to learn the most. Really, really. Your trot to walk was a bit iffy, work more on that.

I like that you give your inside rein fore to scratch his neck, but you need to be able to feel when he is working through his back and looking for the contact and do it more. You don't need to throw the rein away, just let the inside rein go slightly fore and use a finger to scratch his wither. Not enough to lose contact, but enough that he realizes in his mouth that he has done well.

Apart from your hands... And your feet in a canter .. Just remember to sit straight, but not to tip to the outside unless he really gets unbalanced and tips in. 

He seems like a charming young man, but needs the young horse basics putting in to him


----------



## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Subbing


----------



## Cherrij (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks Duffy!
He is absolutely charming, and was trained a few years ago, but then he was a pasture puff, and grew bigger, so I guess he lost all his balance and stuff... because that is clearly one of the things that builds all the problems.. 
Yesterday I watched my old video with another horse, i did not have the same problems, because that horse was balanced and did not need support from all directions.. 

Teddy can be worked in circles, diagonals, serpent lines and what not in walk and trot. and that is what we do. I could not do that for the video.. 
in Canter I have a problem pushing him off the circle, as for now he runs like a motorcycle through the bend, so he takes one massive circle and that is it - but nobody complains, because he needs to go forwards and he needs to start balancing out. 

Thats why we do mostly trail with him - where we mostly walk, trot a little if we are together with out friend, but I let him blow off steam if we are alone, he loves to canter in the forest. 

I know its a long way for us both, but atm, my number one priority for next lesson is to try my other saddle, but I am sure I will feel weird, and really think about my hands and legs.


----------



## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Cherrij said:


> Thanks for responses.
> I am not a total beginner, but with him I feel like it. Just a few months ago I was riding a warmblood and never had any of these issues.
> 
> 4) Explain TOES UP please? I have always been taught heels down. Here toes went down, because this horse needs a serious drive to stay in canter.. he will raise it easy, but he just does not want to canter.. so my legs went into his sides..
> ...


When someone says heels down, it's everyone's tendency to shove their heels down, jamming them against the stirrup. When that happens, you lose your seat because you're working against gravity.

Now if someone says toes up, you only think of stretching them up, so your weight STAYS where it needs to be (down the inside of your leg)

Even if you use leg, you need to stretch your leg down. If he's ignoring it, then you need to ride with a crop and give him a flick when he chooses to ignore you.

Every horse you ride is different... this one has a tendency to not work properly.. likely due to his inexperience. The warmblood likely could achieve more of a self carriage, due to having more correct miles under saddle.

You're still the same rider, just you have to learn to adapt. The way you adapt determines your experience level. You aren't far off, but you do need to make some slight (and difficult) changes


----------



## Cherrij (Jan 30, 2013)

Skyseternalangel said:


> When someone says heels down, it's everyone's tendency to shove their heels down, jamming them against the stirrup. When that happens, you lose your seat because you're working against gravity.
> 
> Now if someone says toes up, you only think of stretching them up, so your weight STAYS where it needs to be (down the inside of your leg)
> 
> ...


well, everyone has their good and bad days. That actually was a good day. And how many professionals ride with heels up, because they are poking the horse with spurs? 

no problem, I will focus on all that.. my lucky thing is, that for 1 or 2 lessons I focus on something, and then I do not need to focus on that again... 

This is one very special horse to adapt to, and believe me, I don't know a single person who would be able to ride him perfect straight away.. maybe after a few years.. 

oh, and about heels, I have always been taught to just pretend I am standing - eg there is no horse - and to let the weight sink in my heels by straightening my legs a little more. My heels luckily never see that broken look of an ankle as many jumping riders show. 
and oh my, i do use the crop, but I cannot keep him moving just with it?
he has a problem of keeping the gait/rythm too...


----------



## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Define 'professional' 

I am not a fan of heels down, or toes up. By asking someone to think toes up you can actually lock the heel and make the lower leg useless.

My dressage trainer always taught me to think 'weight in your little toe'. Not so much that you ride with your knees off the saddle etc, but it helps to soften the inside of your legs. She was also a human/horse physio.

If you can't keep him moving witht he crop, you ain't using it right. I am not saying you need to get happy slappy with him. 
I prefer a longer whip that will tap the hind end without having to move my hand right back (I generally ride horses 17.2hh+) with a leather tip rather than the string or fluffy ends.

Ask, tell, demand.
Ask with leg, if he ignores, tap, if he ignores, boot and smack.

And then carry on like nothing has happened. Make sure you don't pull him back on your reins as you ask him to go forward.. it shocks me so much that people do this, and it happens more often than I would like.

Gait and rhythm will come.. its a green thing and don't worry too much on it right now. He won't have the muscle or training to carry himself in such a way.


----------



## Cherrij (Jan 30, 2013)

DuffyDuck said:


> Define 'professional'
> 
> I am not a fan of heels down, or toes up. By asking someone to think toes up you can actually lock the heel and make the lower leg useless.
> 
> ...


I do ask, tell, demand.. but after half a circle he forgets again and needs more pushing. 
I do not pull on the reins, my other dressage trainer who saw this said, yes, there are mistakes, but I am moving with him, and not blocking him in any way.. and I do trust her opinion... 

but we all have things to improve, so thats that.

P.s. Professional - ride GP, Olympics, World cups and whatnot.. they actually do that for a living.


----------



## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Then do it again, and do it sharper.
If he needs that many reminders, it may be because he is getting numb. He doesn't look like an overly lazy horse, but there is a lot of him to put together and his is young.

How long do your schooling sessions last? Does he tire quickly?

Its good you don't block him with your reins. Its a big mistake people make.


----------



## Cherrij (Jan 30, 2013)

DuffyDuck said:


> Then do it again, and do it sharper.
> If he needs that many reminders, it may be because he is getting numb. He doesn't look like an overly lazy horse, but there is a lot of him to put together and his is young.
> 
> How long do your schooling sessions last? Does he tire quickly?
> ...


The last one was about 1 h, he was soaked, and in the end he was tired. even when we have done 1 h in the forest with trot and canter, he is not so tired.. 
He has enough stamina for these sessions, but not enough strength, flexibility. we are trying to take it easy, get him moving out etc.. 
he doesn't get too much extra feed as he doesn't work too much..


----------



## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Twenty minutes of GOOD work is more beneficial at his stage than an hour.

This may be a reason as to why he is less willing to go forward.

A good ten minute warm up, twenty minutes of good work with school figures and transitions, then a cool down should be fine for him now.

An hours, or three hours in the woods won't be as much hard work for him, so long as you aren't flat out galloping everywhere 

I would think about cutting your riding time down a bit, he doesn't need an hour. The horse I currently ride gets a good 20-30 minute 'work' stage with lots of walk breaks.


----------



## Cherrij (Jan 30, 2013)

DuffyDuck said:


> Twenty minutes of GOOD work is more beneficial at his stage than an hour.
> 
> This may be a reason as to why he is less willing to go forward.
> 
> ...


It is more like we warm up for 20 minutes to get him responsive, then we do some working trot, when he is becoming supple we do about 5 minutes of sitting trot, warmup canter - few free rounds on each hand, check our trot, try another canter, cool off.. it might stretch in an hour, but he gets a lot of breaks in the middle too as reward for anything good he can do.. 

he lives outside 24/7, gets ridden about twice a week, sometimes more, depending on my schedule.. 

the trainer is keeping a close eye on him too, she does not want to overwork us.. last time the last canter was maybe a little too much, but I also wanted to test, how much he can do at this stage..


----------



## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

DuffyDuck said:


> I am not a fan of heels down, or toes up. By asking someone to think toes up you can actually lock the heel and make the lower leg useless.


I got in the habit of jamming my heels down so hard (both out of habit and due to a very unpredictable horse) that my toes would go completely numb. haha! :shock:

I'd probably be doing about 60 to 90 days of good, solid, trot work on this horse before i'd go cantering around all strung out. Just my opinion.


----------

