# Why are some people such snobs? *rant*



## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Okay, so this really shouldn't bother me this badly...but it does.

I just had a lady check into my hotel who is here for a local dressage show. Great! 

We started talking horses. Our hotel's parent group is running a promotion called "What would you do with a million dollars?" Her response was "Buy a horse." Her husband teased her about it and I mentioned that I'd worked with a half-million dollar Holsteiner gelding who had been imported from Germany to be a show jumper, but at the age of 5, he hated jumping. 

All was going well as she told me about her bay arab gelding who was trained to third level and how she has lessons with a retired dressage judge and yadda yadda. Good for her! So then I started telling her how I had brought my gelding along myself since he was a 2yo basically unhandled stud colt and how now he's a well-mannered 5yo gelding. She then asked me what breed he was. The second I said that he was a draft cross (paint/Percheron), she literally turned around and walked away. :shock:

I can deal with a lot of idiocy from people, but breed prejudices aren't one of them. What makes her arab so much better than my draft cross? 

And it isn't just her that has reacted that way when I've said I own a draft cross. I've had people say that I need to get a "real" horse that can actually do something. Heck, I've had people at the barn I board at gush over how beautiful he is, then the second they find out he's a draft cross, their attitude becomes "Oh. Well, he's okay, I guess." I've even had someone say, "Ew. Well, to each their own, I guess" when I've said he's a draft cross (this was just recently). 

Why? Who are you to say that my big guy can't do just about anything your horse can do? He may not excel at cutting or barrel racing or endurance riding, but he'll do anything I ask him to do and try his heart out doing it. In my book, that makes him worth his weight in gold, regardless of his breed. 

Ugh. Sorry for the rant. This just really got to me.


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## ChevysMyBoy (Jan 2, 2013)

Well that's just plain rude! What makes draft crosses so bad? I think they're fabulous!! They are sweet, gentle, warm (makes for toasty winter heaters :wink: ), hardy, and they probably want to please more then anything else. Some people are just- UGH! There have been people thinking Chevy was all this that and a bag of chips, then they found out he was a Mustang cross and you'd have thought my horse had turned into this vicious and completely unpredictable wild and crazed mare happy stud. Uh- no. My horse is the sweetest equine I have ever seen. He puts bratty kids in their place and caresses little kids like a proud daddy. Some people just can't get past that breed label. And 95% of the time the horses don't even follow the stereotypes!!!!

*grumbles* Trust me rude lady…I'm sure i could slap a couple (obviously not true) Arabian stereotypes that would make you cringe.


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## cakemom (Jul 4, 2010)

Around here draft crosses are like treasures. I searched 6 months for one for Sarah and wound up with an OTTB bc they are a dime a dozen here (well- not that cheap- that easy to find )
Phooey on her, all horses are beautiful creatures of God and that one of yours is a gem!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Funny thing is, I got my start in the horse world working with Arabs. My first gelding was an Arab/NSH cross. I love Arabs. Yes, they have their moments, just like any other horse, but for the most part they're sweet and quirky.

Thanks, cakemom.  I know that her opinion doesn't matter, but it just rankled me. Around here, draft crosses are hard to come by. I know of three or four, including mine. This area is ruled by quarter horses and paints. You find a few Arabs and TBs thrown in for good measure, but it's cowboy country, so stock horses are king.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

What I find funniest about that is Arabs are not exactly a high end dressage breed. Her snobbery was very much displaced. Oh well. Snobs come in all sizes I guess.


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## Shoebox (Apr 18, 2012)

They're just jealous because they know draft crosses are superior. 

What? No, I'm not biased at all! why would you say that? :lol:


In all seriousness, that's just what they are. Snobs. Think they're high and mighty because they have money. Ignore them, they're not even worth your time. We all have breed preferences (dare I say prejudices?) - even I do. But most of us are smart enough to be able to see that even though each breed is different, ALL of them have different capabilities and ALL of them will find something they can excel in. Every breed has their special place, none of them are useless. and even if they don't excel, no harm in dabbling. Even draft crosses. Especially draft crosses. :wink:


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

MyBoyPuck said:


> What I find funniest about that is Arabs are not exactly a high end dressage breed. Her snobbery was very much displaced. Oh well. Snobs come in all sizes I guess.


That was playing in the back of my head, too. :lol:

Arab doesn't exactly equal dressage royalty.  Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they do just fine at it, but it's not like she had a fancy high-priced warmblood or anything. And then, I overheard her mention to her husband that she needed to check her email to see if anyone was interested in buying her gelding yet.  So you go all snob on me for having a draft cross, but you're selling your Arab? Oooookay...


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Shoebox said:


> They're just jealous because they know draft crosses are superior.
> 
> What? No, I'm not biased at all! why would you say that? :lol:
> 
> ...


Like I said, it shouldn't have bothered me as much as it did. But, I've been hearing a lot of breed prejudice lately against draft crosses, so I guess her snobbery just sent me over the edge. 

I try not to judge a horse by its breed. I've known bat-crap crazy TBs and I've known TBs that were beginner-safe a few months off the track. I've known some psycho Arabs and I've known Arabs who could be used as kids' lesson horses. 

I plan to dabble with Aires. I even got in touch with the one driving instructor in my area to see about lessons.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

One of my favorite sayings about horses involved a draft cross. The lady who worked with Mia & Trooper & gave my youngest lessons once had a draft cross. She said she spent a year trying to get him to trot smoothly. Then one day she realized A) his trot was still rough, and B) his trot covered a LOT of ground & he would do it endlessly. At that point a light went on, and she realized:

*"Sometimes you have to love them for what they are, and not for what they will never be!"*​ 
From then on, she enjoyed trail rides with her draft cross, a bit bouncy but covering a lot of ground willingly and happily, giving his all for her. When she appreciated him for what he was, she could love his willing nature, his work ethic, his steadiness, his desire to please and yes, his ground covering stride...:wink:

BTW - there have been a lot of times I would have willingly traded my purebred Arabian mare for a draft cross, but time has begun to make me appreciate her for her, and for all the things she has taught me.


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

I feel for you.

All I had to deal with at my hotel was girls softball teams (here for a tournament) causing complaints from other guests. And their PARENTS who often time are even more trouble. 

All hotels were sold out and one man who did not have a room was very rude, tried to stay with 2 other guests whom he apparently he knew but not well enough for that. 

Eventually he threw a cup of coffee against the wall and I called the police to have him removed from the property.


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## plomme (Feb 7, 2013)

She sounds ridiculous. And MyBoyPuck is right - if you're going to be a jerk about breeds you really look like someone throwing stones in a glass house if you're riding an Arabian. But no matter what, no one should be like this. She lacks basic social skills.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

anndankev said:


> I feel for you.
> 
> All I had to deal with at my hotel was girls softball teams (here for a tournament) causing complaints from other guests. And their PARENTS who often time even more trouble.
> 
> ...


Oh, I've had my fair share of strange encounters...and I've only worked here six months. :shock:

Aren't sports parents the worst, though?!

This was just a little more personal than any of the other stuff I've had happen.


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## Kolobok (Jul 26, 2014)

I’m very new here but I just wanted to say that some of the best horses I’ve known have been draft crosses. A girl from my region had a TB x some grade draft and for years, they were constantly in the ribbons in our regional jumper classes. Another girl had a Percheron X Welsh Pony; honestly, that horse was so well put together and sweet, I was jealous! I love the temperament and the good bone of draft crosses. Horses of so many different shapes, sizes and breeds excel in situations where judgement is passed that they shouldn't. As long as our horses suit our recreational or competitive needs, why have snobbery? A wise horseperson knows to respect the abilities of any horse no matter the package.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

plomme said:


> She sounds ridiculous. And MyBoyPuck is right - if you're going to be a jerk about breeds you really look like someone throwing stones in a glass house if you're riding an Arabian. But no matter what, no one should be like this. She lacks basic social skills.


I think that's what bothered me. I could have handled it if she'd made some snide remark. But to just simply turn around and walk away in the middle of a conversation, simply because I said I owned a type of horse that you don't like? That's just ridiculously rude.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Stupid is as stupid does, so they say.

Just remember that the UK dominated Horse sports for years mounted on draft crosses, and ignore those who don't appreciate their great qualities:wink:


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

As long as your horse does everything that you ask him to do then you have the best horse in the world...for you. Doesn't matter what other people say or think. 

Every time I see your horse I always think what a perfect team him and one of my mares would make. 



Couldn't you just see them trotting down the road hitched to a wagon?


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

JC, they would make a great pair! 

I know he's perfect for me. It was just her rudeness that got to me. I can handle most rude people, but what she did was a bit over the top.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

I know she was, but I always chalk that type up to not being worth my time.


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## Rachael1986 (Jul 27, 2014)

*I feel you!*

I have two horses, one is a tenessee walker halflinger pony, and the other is a really expensive warmblood I got for next to nothing from the owner due to the horse going blind in one eye. I honestly would rather have ten of my walker cross then a hundred warmbloods! I have had people tell me that my walker would never go past 4th level in dressage, but guess what? That little pony is currently giving me consistant piaffe and we are now on the road to passage as well as flying changes...my warmblood (whom Ive been told is capable of going to the Olympics and winning) is back to ground work and progress is SLOW. A good horse has nothing to do with talent it has to do with the mind and heart of the animal! I have worked for dressage people with more money then sense and I can tell you that I have all but spurned "American dressage" and am currently implementing Clinton Andersons ground methods to my warmblood. "Dressage" in American means "Attention *****" now a days and sadly is becoming a lost art treasured by the few and the proud! I will bet your draft cross could beat her arab in a show on his worst day! Keep up the good work with an awesome horse!


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> I plan to dabble with Aires. I even got in touch with the one driving instructor in my area to see about lessons.


Drafty - I know you aren't that close to Phoenix, but if you are seriously considering learning to drive single or a team (2,3,4) you ought to get in touch with my sister! She could probably help you get Aires into pulling, too. Malachi (spotted draft) was a 10 yr old halter trained stallion when she got him. 5 years later, he just finished the 68 mile Highway 50 Association Wagon Train pulling a vintage 1850 C-Spring! Besides, if she trains you up driving, she'll probably try to put you to work this winter when she gets busy! :lol: She often has more jobs than she has horses or drivers for.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

I'd love that, Change! If I wasn't so far from Phoenix or if I had a better-paying job, I'd be all over it. As it stands, I live two hours from Phoenix and make barely above minimum wage. :-(


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## clumsychelsea (Jul 9, 2014)

You've reminded me that I worked at a hotel for two years... The amount of crap you see in those places is incredible. :-|

I can't stand when people are snobby about their horses. There's a girl where I board who makes fun of another boarder behind his back because his black horse looks brown in the sun! It's unbelievable what people will get uppity about. She should probably be paying more attention to her OWN horse... You can count every rib. 

That's the one thing in the horse world that I've never been able to cope with. You can't turn left or right without someone thinking they know all and their horse is better or their saddle is better or blah blah blah. Sigh.


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## Chasin Ponies (Dec 25, 2013)

MyBoyPuck said:


> What I find funniest about that is Arabs are not exactly a high end dressage breed. Her snobbery was very much displaced. Oh well. Snobs come in all sizes I guess.


 I too find it comical that this woman was snobby and under the false impression that an Arab is the ultimate dressage horse. Definitely not in the real dressage world!

Now if she had a fancy warmblood like a Trakehner or Oldenburg, her snobbery would make more sense but with a draft-cross, you have a horse that is much closer to the dressage norm!

Don't worry about it too much, every aspect of horse sport has it's own snobbery-not just dressage. Be proud of your boy and don't worry about the snobs. They are the people you wouldn't want to be friends with anyway!


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

Long-time Arab person here. Do you really feel that insulting the REST of us over one idiot's attitude makes you better than her? Or insulting our horses? I don't insult your draft cross. I'm fond of drafties, have raised a few and know they can be awesome.

And Warmbloods actually ARE draft crosses, and it STILL doesn't make "horse snobbery" anything more than stupid attitude.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

squirrelfood said:


> Long-time Arab person here. Do you really feel that insulting the REST of us over one idiot's attitude makes you better than her? Or insulting our horses? I don't insult your draft cross. I'm fond of drafties, have raised a few and know they can be awesome.
> 
> And Warmbloods actually ARE draft crosses, and it STILL doesn't make "horse snobbery" anything more than stupid attitude.


Hmmm-guess you see what you want to. I do not see any insults to Arabs at all. Saying that they aren't "dressage royalty"-true. Ask 10 top dressage folks what their choice would be, and I will bet very few say "arab" would be first choice. Just a fact. 

Some do call draft crosses "warmbloods", and technically, I guess they are, but they are not the elite ones typically chosen at the top of the list of the same renown dressage riders that would not choose arab. Only time I called my draft cross an American warmblood was if someone was talking about buying him. It seems the word makes the price go up…..;-). Could he ever do dressage-perhaps 20 years ago, if I ever had the desire. 

I find the PEOPLE they issue with dressage and the reputation of snobbery…..not the breed. Personally-I try to avoid them. Just being honest. I have never met one I liked, who did not look down their nose at ANY cross. (oh-perhaps except oldenburg, hanoverian or something similar to that).

OP-I too have suffered with years of breed prejudice with my draft cross who I have had 20+ years…..and I jumped from the kettle to the fire by purchasing my current horse who is **gasp** a reining trained TWH cross. Shoot-I had a terrible time just finding a trainer who would train him! Fact is both of them give their all and I would not trade them for the world. Most think my current guy is a QH-which is good, until they find out what he is…then they literally gasp-then they see him go.:wink:


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

LOL, I'm right there with you. I own 2 draft crosses and a Mustang, the most frowned-upon breeds in the horse world it seems.

How I managed to deal with the prejudice is just to smile when they say "How can you own a piece of crap like that? He's only good for glue!", laugh, then proceed to thoroughly trounce their little well bred QH at whatever we're doing.

Actually had to deal with that at a branding once. We all showed up and I noticed a guy giving my 'stang the stink-eye. He proceeded to ask me why I wanted a crappy good for nothing glue pot like that. Guy had some really nice bred QH's, stunning horses......weren't trained worth a dang. He couldn't stop them, he couldn't turn them, and they wouldn't pull more than about 100 pounds on the end of a rope. 

After Dobe and I spent most the day calmly dragging out calf after calf while he fought with his horses, I asked him..."How can _you_ stand to ride a bunch of worthless pieces of crap like that?".


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## DreaMy (Jul 1, 2014)

I don't understand breed snobs. I remember having this discussion with my coach who is into jumping mainly (but has done, taught and trained for anything from eventing to reiners). Anyway she showed up to a jumping clinic once polo (clean but not fancy) some plain old schooling beeches and her self trained appaloosa gelding with schooling tack (beat up but in good working condition). EVERYONE else was on their fancy warmbloods and in their show clothing and expensive tack etc. Once everyone warmed up the instructor asked who would like to do the exercise first and nobody moved so coach thought "I came here to ride, it doesn't matter what everyone else thinks" and goes first, everyone else does the exercise. Next course clinician asks who would like to go first this time one of the other ladies looks at coach and says "Her." and the clinician asks why... "Well she has to show us how to do it."


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

That is horse people in a nutshell for you. They treat there horses better than the people they encounter. I have a standardbred so that makes for some "fun" comments. People can be very narrow minded and sometimes forget that speaking their mind is both unnecessary and hurtful. Ignore them, you can't fix them and in the grand scheme of things they don't matter. On the horse front, I have known/ridden/worked with some amazing bomb proof draft crosses. A good horse is a good horse no matter the breed.


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## HagonNag (Jul 17, 2010)

Idiots are all around us. Always. Hopefully her horse skills are better than her people skills, bless her heart.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

I guess you just can't see your own breed snobbery, nor do you get out much obviously. The ONLY reason there aren't more ""elite"" Arabian dressage horses is simply because judges don't use them. Being a little smaller does not make them lesser. And that "smaller" is changing, now that there are so many 16H Arabs.There are actually a couple of high placing dressage horses that are Arabian, but most don't KNOW they are, BECAUSE of breed snobbery. As long as they don't TELL anyone it's Arabian, they place quite well.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

People like that have an incredibly small view (and probably understanding) of the horse world. 
Most of us have seen a lot of it. Chalk it up to ignorance and the unwillingness to look beyond themselves.


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## Hally1997 (Jul 26, 2014)

Where I am from if you have a gaited horse, it has to be a pure TW. I have a Peruvian Paso/ TW cross and could not ask for a better horse. I have got he same reaction at gaited shows. People just chuckle and shake their heads when I enter a competition. Well I have showed them, my cross which I bought for $450 has beat their purebred $12000 horses time after time.  In fact all of my favorite horses have been crosses. Also draft crosses are beautiful, my mom had one and HE was perfect in my eyes. 

So I will say they this HORSE CROSSES RULE!!!!!


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

The snobs are using their horse to build themselves up instead of using themselves to build their horse up. At high levels of competition, serious contenders will probably need a specific breed, and probably want specific lines within that breed. That is fine. Someone like that is not a breed snob, but a serious athlete who has specific needs.

But the folks who feel a need to look down on drafts, Arabians, mustangs, Quarter Horses, etc are the equine equivalent of the 45 year old guy with a pot belly who buys an expensive car to show he is still a stud. If he has even a glimmer of sense, he'll roll up the windows to keep from hearing the people laughing at him as he drives by.

The people I admire are the ones who try to bring out the best in their horse, who think, "How can I make my horse be good?" instead of, "How can my horse make me look good?"



squirrelfood said:


> I guess you just can't see your own breed snobbery, nor do you get out much obviously. The ONLY reason there aren't more ""elite"" Arabian dressage horses is simply because judges don't use them. Being a little smaller does not make them lesser. And that "smaller" is changing, now that there are so many 16H Arabs.There are actually a couple of high placing dressage horses that are Arabian, but most don't KNOW they are, BECAUSE of breed snobbery. As long as they don't TELL anyone it's Arabian, they place quite well.


As an Arabian owner and lover, I disagree. The reason more Arabians aren't at the top of dressage is the same reason more Arabians don't dominate the barrel racing world - they are not built for what the sport requires at a high level. In like manner, you won't see a lot of warmbloods dominating endurance racing.

Don't use a hammer with a screw, or a screwdriver with a nail.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

squirrelfood said:


> I guess you just can't see your own breed snobbery, nor do you get out much obviously. The ONLY reason there aren't more ""elite"" Arabian dressage horses is simply because judges don't use them. Being a little smaller does not make them lesser. And that "smaller" is changing, now that there are so many 16H Arabs.There are actually a couple of high placing dressage horses that are Arabian, but most don't KNOW they are, BECAUSE of breed snobbery. As long as they don't TELL anyone it's Arabian, they place quite well.


To whom are you referring? Since I don't have a specific "breed", it is pretty difficult for me to be a "breed snob". I have not owned a purebred horse of any breed in many years.

IMO, it is pretty difficult for anyone-especially those placing those "high placing dressage horses" not to know it is an arab. Unless, of course it is a cross. Arabs have some pretty distinctive heads.:wink:


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## Hally1997 (Jul 26, 2014)

bsms said:


> The snobs are using their horse to build themselves up instead of using themselves to build their horse up. At high levels of competition, serious contenders will probably need a specific breed, and probably want specific lines within that breed. That is fine. Someone like that is not a breed snob, but a serious athlete who has specific needs.
> 
> But the folks who feel a need to look down on drafts, Arabians, mustangs, Quarter Horses, etc are the equine equivalent of the 45 year old guy with a pot belly who buys an expensive car to show he is still a stud. If he has even a glimmer of sense, he'll roll up the windows to keep from hearing the people laughing at him as he drives by.
> 
> ...


nicley put


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

Again, you should get out more. Not ALL Arabs have those distinctive heads. Check out the French Arabs just for starters. There are several strains of Arabs that are plain-headed I've owned a few of them. One was a straight Egyptian stallion of the older type, not what they breed today. Check my photos for heads. Every one is a registered, DNA tested purebred Arabian, except the pinto, who is 3/4, and has the most classic head of the lot. The others could (and often do; I compete open cutting) pass for somewhat refined QH.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

franknbeans said:


> To whom are you referring? Since I don't have a specific "breed", it is pretty difficult for me to be a "breed snob". I have not owned a purebred horse of any breed in many years.
> 
> IMO, it is pretty difficult for anyone-especially those placing those "high placing dressage horses" not to know it is an arab. Unless, of course it is a cross. Arabs have some pretty distinctive heads.:wink:


Again, you should get out more. Not ALL Arabs have those distinctive heads. Check out the French Arabs just for starters. There are several strains of Arabs that are plain-headed I've owned a few of them. One was a straight Egyptian stallion of the older type, not what they breed today. Check my photos for heads. Every one is a registered, DNA tested purebred Arabian, except the pinto, who is 3/4, and has the most classic head of the lot. The others could (and often do; I compete open cutting) pass for somewhat refined QH.

There we go...


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

bsms said:


> The snobs are using their horse to build themselves up instead of using themselves to build their horse up. At high levels of competition, serious contenders will probably need a specific breed, and probably want specific lines within that breed. That is fine. Someone like that is not a breed snob, but a serious athlete who has specific needs.
> 
> But the folks who feel a need to look down on drafts, Arabians, mustangs, Quarter Horses, etc are the equine equivalent of the 45 year old guy with a pot belly who buys an expensive car to show he is still a stud. If he has even a glimmer of sense, he'll roll up the windows to keep from hearing the people laughing at him as he drives by.
> 
> ...



There is more than one type of Arab, just like there is more than one type of QH, each bred to do something a bit different. Anyone who thinks they are just for endurance, or that they are "crazy" or "hot" really knows NOTHING about the breed in general, even if you do "own one". Just like thinking they ALL have a dishy head. That is far from being true.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Squirrel-please stop with personal references. I do not make them to you, and would appreciate the same. 

I did look at your horses, and I am sorry-except for Brat, of whom there are no close ups where I can see the head……and from a distance has paint coloring, they look Arab to me. I am sorry if you don't like that, but they do. Sometimes heritage is hard to deny. Sort of like my draft cross that you can tell is a Clyde from a mile away. I don to consider that a bad thing.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Give me a draft x over an Arab any time! In the UK there are several draft x's that are working at high level dressage and I cannot think of a single Arab doing so. 

Apart from two Arabs that did very well eventing, I cannot think of one that has been a top level competition horse other than for Distance Riding, where they are hard to beat.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

squirrelfood said:


> There is more than one type of Arab, just like there is more than one type of QH, each bred to do something a bit different. Anyone who thinks they are just for endurance, or that they are "crazy" or "hot" really knows NOTHING about the breed in general, even if you do "own one". Just like thinking they ALL have a dishy head. That is far from being true.


I may love Arabians, but they are NOT the ideal horse for all sports. That idea is ridiculous. There is a reason Arabians are not at the top of every sport, and it has to do with build & genetics and the optimum conformation for various sports.

I never said they were bred "just for endurance", but it is pretty hard not to notice endurance is a sport that Arabians tend to do very well in, and that cutting cattle and dressage are not.

At lower levels, almost any horse can do some dressage, some jumping, so racing, some cattle work. But at the high levels of competition, the horses bred specifically for that goal dominate. A backyard rider like myself can ride any breed pretty happily. Someone serious about competing at the top levels of cutting and dressage and steeplechase and barrel racing cannot use 'any horse', but need horses bred for that sport.

I like most breeds of dogs, but Border Collies dominate the sheep herding trials. I wonder why...

BTW: My 15.3 Arabian mare is not the typical Arabian look, but she pretty much defines the stereotypical "Arabian Mare" personality. Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures showing her spooking and trying to run away because a tree has blossomed. Or doing the OMG Crouch. But if jumping SIDEWAYS ever becomes an Olympic sport, she may become a contender...:wink:


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

I do open cutting against stock horses, have for several years. I usually place first or second. That is with an ARABIAN. No, that isn't the national quality, but they won't let an Arabian in, or I'd sure try. And out of the 3 or 4 HUNDRED I have owned over the years, I believe there has been maybe 3 that were what you call " stereotypical", mostly due to previous handling and training. They DID improve over a couple years.

It's true Arabians are about the MOST misunderstood breed out there, mostly due to a lot of the idiots who own them.


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## Patches101 (Jul 26, 2014)

I'm sorry about those people... They are so rude!! There is nothing wrong with your horse! If you love your gelding that's all that matters!! If she has a prob with your horse she needs to suck it up and move on! We all love our horses for who they are right? Not for the breed! We love their personality and that they don't care for what we are but for who we are!
Happy trails!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I do not dislike Arabs for any reason at all, I love to see them loose in a field, I don't think there is a breed of horse that can hold its tails as high or ***** their ears so they touch in the middle and flare their nostrils so they nearly touch their eyes all whilst seeming to float.

Many breeds owe a lot to the Arab blood, that's a fact.

I have never tried to compete on a pure Arab, I have on several Anglo Arabs and they took some riding to keep them concentrating. 

One of the funniest was at the riding school. We had an Anglo that was kept as a staff horse. We were missing on five heavyweight horses that disappeared for four days in mid summer season. One man who gave the impression he was a rider was mounted in this horse which immediately showed he could not! 
When we had a canter the man couldn't hold one side of him. When we had the next canter I let him go in front telling him to stop at the gate. Faro charged off but half way to the gate he stopped dead to read a sign post (that had been there for many years) just to make sure he was going in the right direction! 
The man went sailing over his head, that was compounded by the fact that the man lost one of his shoes which went over the fence into the neighbouring field and landed heel first in a large cow pat. 
The man wasn't hurt , well, until he had to clamber over the fence through nettles to retrieve his shoe! 

Only something with Arab blood would pull such a trick.


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

Anyone who thinks draft X's are the red-headed stepchildren of the horse world has never owned a mule  I think most people just backed away from me assuming I had some sort of mental illness.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

squirrelfood said:


> I do open cutting against stock horses, have for several years. I usually place first or second. That is with an ARABIAN. No, that isn't the national quality, but they won't let an Arabian in, or I'd sure try...It's true Arabians are about the MOST misunderstood breed out there, mostly due to a lot of the idiots who own them.


I guess that qualifies as breed snobbery. You would lose at a high level cutting competition on an Arabian, not because the judges are mean, but because it isn't what Arabians are built to do best. Not all QHs do it well, either. But at lower levels, yes, a horse is a horse. You could cut cattle with a draft...and I wouldn't be surprised if smrobs has done so, and done it reasonably well. My Appy, who is 3/4 Arabian, was used for cutting cattle and ranch work, but his heart wasn't in it. That is how he ended up with scars from spurs.








​
Nor am I an idiot. My mare came to me that way, and she has improved over the years. The other purebred Arabian mare, now sold, was not like that. Our Appy is quite steady with his 3/4 Arabian breeding. But I would dispute the idea that Arabians are the most misunderstood breed. I think mules, as Mulefeather mentions, are quite competitive for the "most misunderstood" title, and mustangs and draft crosses are serious contenders as well. I've also met Arabian owners who couldn't appreciate a QH for what a QH is.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

I don't know about cutting, but I do know Arabs are allowed in the NRHA-but just like BSMS said-they just are not built for that, and do not do it as well as the horses that are bred for it. Arabs are lovely for some things. Reining is not one, IMO. I don;t recall ever seeing one at a rated NRHA show around here…..I have seen a draftX, who actually had everyone cheering for him he was so slow……may not have placed, but everyone loved him!

Every sport is not for every horse. That is just the way it is. My current horse cannot jump worth a darn. REALLY ugly, borderline dangerous-altho he does try. My draft cross-lovely over fences and cross country, but could not do the reining the current one does-in fact the thought of it makes me laugh.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

I haven't read all the replies but I just need to say. Do breed snob people(warmblood people are the worse, sorry, but its true) not realize that their big fancy warmblood breeds trace back to draft horse? 

I've seen many draft crosses competing at the higher levels of eventing, seen them in the grand prix jumper ring and even the higher levels of dressage. 

I love me a big ol draft cross.

It is the same for me though, I get a lot of eye rolls and sobbery because I own a standardbred. Well my "jug head" has nicer movement then a lot of fancy warmbloods. She has a trot to die for and a beautiful balanced canter. She has the most laid back baby sitter type personality. I wouldn't trade her for anything. 

Can't stand breed snobbery.

I have breeds I dislike, but I wouldn't pass over a horse just because of its breed. As many unlikely breeds have surprised me at what they can do.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Okay, so this really shouldn't bother me this badly...but it does.
> 
> I just had a lady check into my hotel who is here for a local dressage show. Great!
> 
> ...


In some ways, society has not progressed has it - racial profiling exists in all venues:-(

I had Arab/crosses and Arabs the bulk of my life. Everyone around me had Appaloosa's or Quarter Horses. Every time I went trail riding with "those people" I had to hear something derogatory about my horse. We were a lot tougher team than any of the rest of them but we still heard "it".

It took me until I was close to 30 to stop harboring my huge dis-like for both of those breeds. I finally got smart enough to realize it wasn't the horse talking it was the owner.

My real "how do ya like me now?" (think Toby Keith's song) was the 20 mile rough ride my Arab/Saddlebred and I went on, when he was in his late teens or early 20's. We heard gaff from some young punk on a Quarter Horse, every time that kid caught up to us. "Caught up" being the operative.

When we got back to camp several hours later (this was an organized ride of 75-100 horses), my senior Arab/Saddlebred came into camp with almost as much energy as he left with. That Quarter Horse came dragging in last and obviously wore out. The kid most likely pushed that horse too hard. Eventhough it may have been in no condition to be pushed, I seized on that moment like white on rice and let loose on that kid

There will always be people who are never happy unless they are making someone else unhappy with hurtful words. They have either been repeatedly subjected to that behavior, themselves, or they were born just plain mean-spirited, are insecure and won't ever know any better.

Thank goodness they are in the minority.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

I LOVE my Arabs, they are a fantastic all around breed, but they are not Dressage specialists, sorry, if you are buying an endurance horse, I would so start with an Arab, someone who can do a little of everything, an Arab, top flight dressage horse,? lead me to this Clydesdale x TB






I would take him every time over an Arab, FOR THAT JOB.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I think mulefeather is right, the equine world is divided into mule people and not mule people. Mule people confuse a lot of horse people, who have this mislead idea that mules can only pack things around. Not a lot of mules doing dressage. 

I think there are exceptions to the rules for everything. I know a standardbred who was called to perform in the barrel racing nationals a number of years in a row. There are Arabians who can do high level dressage much like there are warmbloods who could be amazing distance horses. The thing is that those are the exception not the rule. I think there is enough diversity within a breed that if you are committed to finding a horse from a specific breed to perform a specific task you can find one with the conformation to do it. 

Where breed discrimination gets annoying is when it starts to cloud judgement at shows. I know a friend who rides a Friesian, she went to a dressage show and her horse performed poorly, he was over the bit and not listening. She showed against someone on an appaloosa. The Appy performed perfectly, was on the bit and listening during the entire test. The Appy finished 8th and she finished 4th and felt that she should not have placed above that horse. The judges were blind to the horses performance because of its breed and that is where it gets to be a problem.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

bsms said:


> I guess that qualifies as breed snobbery. You would lose at a high level cutting competition on an Arabian, not because the judges are mean, but because it isn't what Arabians are built to do best. Not all QHs do it well, either. But at lower levels, yes, a horse is a horse. You could cut cattle with a draft...and I wouldn't be surprised if smrobs has done so, and done it reasonably well. My Appy, who is 3/4 Arabian, was used for cutting cattle and ranch work, but his heart wasn't in it. That is how he ended up with scars from spurs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seriously; read much? WHERE did I say ANYTHING about "mean judge"? What I DID say is I can't get my horse entered in the higher levels because the rules don't allow anything but stock horses. And it's pretty ignorant to assume my horse couldn't be competitive when you haven't ever seen him work.
And Idiot? It referred to the woman in the OP's post, but if the shoe fits........


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I have found that snobs are really full of insecurities and can't deal with anything outside their realm of thinking.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Okay, I think the spirit of this thread has been lost.

I WAS NOT bashing Arabs or the fact that this lady does dressage with her Arab. As I said in one of my first replies, I love Arabs. I got my intro to the horse world working with Arabs. One of them, if he hadn't looked so incredibly Arab, could have been mistaken for a QH because he was so calm and laid-back. He was also rather successful on the local hunter circuit. My first horse was an Arab/NSH cross and I miss him every day. My friend has an Arab gelding that she uses for endurance. He is like a giant (16hh) puppy dog. Heck, at my old barn, my gelding's two best friends were Arabs. 

Were Arabs bred to do dressage? Nope. Can they do dressage? Sure. Was my draft cross bred to do dressage? Most certainly not. Can he do dressage? With the right training, I'd be willing to bet he can. 

I was more upset about the rudeness of this woman to walk away in the middle of a pleasant conversation, simply because I own a horse that she considers inferior.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Okay, I think the spirit of this thread has been lost.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 My thought exactly, Drafty


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Can't understand rude. The only way to explain it is adult adolescence. Yes, it is a largely incurable disease that presents itself as lack of true friends and an absence of "friend insurance" which pays out when things are REALLY Bad.
Thanks, friends here at the HF! =D **hugs**


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## Avishay (Jun 14, 2014)

I grew up with high-end arabs and low end, unwanted grade horses, and loved both equally. 

I own three horses, a Paint mare with world-class breeding (who was literally going to be thrown away by her breeder if I hadn't taken her as a weanling), a Hanoverian who was bought by Hilda Gurney as a Grad Prix prospect as a three year old, started, and then used as a broodmare because while she had the physical talent, she lacked the mental fortitude - said mare went though some good stuff, some bad stuff, worked her way though 3rd level, changed hands a few times, and eventually I bought her for the grand sum of $1 - I'm going to go take said mare for a trail ride in an hour or so. 

But Shay, my draft cross - is by far my favorite horse to ride. He's Belgian and Paint (the Paint had a fair amount of TB in her though, I think, judging from the one photo I have of his dam). I got him from a PMU rescue that sprung him from a feed lot at three months, shipped him down from Canada to CA, and I adopted him at 4 months old. I raised him, started him, and have trained him for several disciplines (and eventually I'll get him over his abject terror of trail riding - that't the only thing he's just a giant baby about lol). But when I was pursuing traditional dressage with him - I would get dozens of compliments, and many a dressage rider expressed a desire to ride him, UNTIL they asked what his breeding was. As soon as I said he was a draft cross, they suddenly thought his big head was less cute and more "corse", and his "lovely big feet and good bone" were "plough horse legs". I've had people go from gushing over his way of moving to saying things like, "well, he's not bad for a plough horse" in the same breath. It got old, fast. It didn't hurt my feelings in that I **KNOW** he's drafty (and I think it's CUTE!), but I know he has some faults, too. But it was the attitude BEHIND the comments that bothered me. It's like talking to someone you think you kind of like and may want to be friends with, only to have them make a barely veiled bigoted comment - it just turns you off to that person. In my case, it ended up turning me off to a sport I've always admired. So I traded in my tack, taught Shay to neck rein, and dove into the waters of Western Dressage lol. It's been great (and frankly, my horse likes it a lot better). I ride one-handed and he gets to carry himself in frame with little to no contact. And all the WD people I've been involved with LOVE him, regardless of his breeding.  

My point is - don't let this woman bug you. She's no different from someone who is classist or racist, or homophobic. She has a prejudice, and that's a problem in her OWN mind and heart.


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## Corazon Lock (Dec 26, 2011)

Silly how people think that one horse is better than another. 

I think a lot of how a horse performs is its attitude and heart for the job. My horse is a QH (looks more like a Thoroughbred) and LOVES to jump. He LOVES, LOVES, LOVES it. I laughed yesterday because we were in a sea of QH's at a fun show doing western stuff. My horse isn't agile enough for games, and he's terrible at western pleasure. But when we got the jumps out (as requested by me)...OH BOY. He was in his element. If the arena hadn't been sloppy and if he wasn't gate sour that day, we would've won, hands down. 

We've been to rated hunter/jumper shows where there are Warmbloods and Thoroughbreds. Rusty stands out because of his red dun coloring, but he is right at home with those other horses.

That being said, I think you do have to have the right genetics and conformation to be successful at high levels. I don't follow dressage much, but I haven't heard of any Arabians being top-level dressage horses, unless Squirrelfood is referring to ones at the breed shows, which I think is a completely different element, kind of like dressage as a sport vs. eventing dressage. It's not impossible for an out-of-the-box breed to be successful at high levels, but it isn't typical. 

Thoroughbreds were made to race.
Quarter Horses were made for western pleasure, halter, and stock work.
Arabians were made for endurance riding.
Warmbloods were made for jumping, dressage, and eventing.
Draft horses were made for pulling carts. 

That's why we have breeds in the first place. 

On a side note, I LOVE my little Arabian for trail riding. He doesn't ever tire and moves out faster than my QH. My Arabian is 20. My QH is 13. I should also add that my Arabian is extremely dramatic, a bit spooky, and not real bright. But he's a lover.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

Being that I like to dabble in this and a dabble in that ( in and out of the horse world) just let me have a horse with a good build,a good mind, and a willing attitude, and I will find a disciplines we can dabble in together!

As for rude people, just think to yourself, "But by the grace of God go I." And thank your parents for raising you correctly!


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

squirrel, really, you're in a fight that nobody but you is having.

The thread was about a rude person perceived to be breed snobbery by the op.... not an attack on Arabians.

Breathe........


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Avishay said:


> As soon as I said he was a draft cross, they suddenly thought his big head was less cute and more "corse", and his "lovely big feet and good bone" were "plough horse legs". I've had people go from gushing over his way of moving to saying things like, "well, he's not bad for a plough horse" in the same breath. It got old, fast. It didn't hurt my feelings in that I **KNOW** he's drafty (and I think it's CUTE!), but I know he has some faults, too.* But it was the attitude BEHIND the comments that bothered me.*


The bolded is exactly what I was upset about!! I can handle comments about him, good or bad. It's the attitude behind the comments. It's that insinuation that just because my horse is a certain breed (or in his case breeds), that he is somehow inferior and unable to be useful for anything other than an expensive pasture ornament. Yes, he has a big head, but, as my boyfriend says, he's got to fit all those brains somewhere. :lol: Yes, the earth shakes when he moves faster than a walk, but at least I always know where he is. :lol:


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

NBEventer said:


> Do breed snob people(warmblood people are the worse, sorry, but its true) not realize that their big fancy warmblood breeds trace back to draft horse?


It wouldn't matter if they did, because in most cases it's not really about the breeding, it's about how much money you paid. If suddenly someone gave draft crosses a cute, marketable name - something like 'labradoodle', say - and started selling them for big bucks, you'd see an instant 180-degree attitude change.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

I have to add... I am a warmblood person. I personally have a warmblood and am getting into warmblood and sport horse breeding. However I am well aware of the fact that my fancy warmbloods have draft in them. Yes it might be 50 generations back but its there lol. 

Its the people who snub their noses that bug me. I don't like arabians, I wouldn't take one if it was free and I wouldn't be seeking one out. But if the right one came along that was talented and had the right personality I wouldn't turn it away. I just wouldn't be seeking out an arabian. 

Some breeds are best suited to certain disciplines. But there is always the odd one that will excel where you would never expect them to.

My last upper level event horse was a foundation bred QH. She didn't have a drop of tb or warmblood in her. But that mare would chew up a cross country course and spit it out. She had big flashy beautiful movement and people were always shocked when I told them she was foundation bred. 

So hey, you just never know.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

jamesqf said:


> It wouldn't matter if they did, because in most cases it's not really about the breeding, it's about how much money you paid. If suddenly someone gave draft crosses a cute, marketable name - something like 'labradoodle', say - and started selling them for big bucks, you'd see an instant 180-degree attitude change.


You mean like this? Yes, the AWS is considered a "legitimate" registry, but a good portion of the horses are crosses of some sort who can't be registered with another registry (much like my gelding can't be registered with the PtHA because he's half draft). Other than the ones with oodles of training, the prospects that are selling for $5000 and up wouldn't go for more than $2000 if they weren't registered.

American Warmbloods For Sale at Warmblood-Sales.com
American Warmblood Horses for Sale | American Warmblood Horse Classifieds


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## Avishay (Jun 14, 2014)

jamesqf said:


> It wouldn't matter if they did, because in most cases it's not really about the breeding, it's about how much money you paid. If suddenly someone gave draft crosses a cute, marketable name - something like 'labradoodle', say - and started selling them for big bucks, you'd see an instant 180-degree attitude change.



They DO, though. A lot of "American Warmbloods" are some sort of draft crossed with tb, QH, other warmbloods, or to a lesser extent, arabs. "American Warmbloods" are now a few generations in, and starting to look more like warmboods than draft crosses, but that's still essentially what many of them are. The same is true of Canadian Warmbloods, which are typically Clydesdale and TB - you throw in a little extra TB blood each generation, and it refines the draft to a point of Voila! Warmblood. 

That doesn't make either one bad, and frankly, the Canadian Warmbloods are of a distinct TYPE now, whereas the Amercian WB has two registries (or did, the last time I checked) but for the most part, their studbooks let in any horse who meets some pretty mild performance requirements or has been registered with any of a number of other breed registries.


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## Avishay (Jun 14, 2014)

NBEventer said:


> I have to add... I am a warmblood person. I personally have a warmblood and am getting into warmblood and sport horse breeding. However I am well aware of the fact that my fancy warmbloods have draft in them. Yes it might be 50 generations back but its there lol.
> 
> Its the people who snub their noses that bug me. I don't like arabians, I wouldn't take one if it was free and I wouldn't be seeking one out. But if the right one came along that was talented and had the right personality I wouldn't turn it away. I just wouldn't be seeking out an arabian.
> 
> ...



Absolutely. My Paint mare is 100% halter-bred - she should have been 16.1, post-legged, and virtually useless under saddle (like everything else her breeder ever produced). Instead, she made it to the unimpressive height of 14.1, and is as athletic as the day is long! A friend of mine has a TB who was bred to be a top hunter - she hates to jump (which is good, because she really sucks at it) but she's killing in the dressage ring.


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## Pidge (Sep 5, 2009)

Sadly snobs come in every discipline...even pleasure riding! I ride an appendix gelding that is an absolutely wonderful trail horse and can cover some real ground with his long TB legs. The group I was around and that I had to ride with though were all gaited horse people, they all had walkers, and the first time I rode with them the only thing I heard the entire way to the trails was how they had never had a non-gaited horse keep up, and how my poor little stock horse wasn't going to keep up, and how I was going to be miserable the entire ride, and that if I wanted to keep riding with them long term I needed to look into getting a gaited horse (which I didn't want to do since gaited just isn't for me). I simple assured them I wouldn't be miserable and when we got to the trails I let my gelding stretch those long legs out and blow their walkers out of the water with his trot. By the time we were done he was just warming her and her horses were lathered and dripping nose to tail. Snobs silenced.

It has nothing to do with the breeding, or the breed stereotype. It has everything to do with their performance in my book. Who cares if your horse is a draft-cross! If he is a well trained gentleman he probably already has a better start than half the horses I meet.


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## Atomicodyssey (Apr 13, 2014)

I've received similar responses with my dogs. When my late dog was a puppy I would take him in public and as soon as I told them he was a pit bull they would gasp in horror and snatch their hands away, as if this 2 month old pup suddenly was different than the second before they were gushing over him. Years later I still have a pit bull and I bring her everywhere I can and I am not being biased when I say she is the most wonderful dog... So relaxed in any social situation and very gentle/sweet with babies and little dogs. People are more open minded now it seems but I still gets negative responses. I don't let it bother me and know they are just ignorant, and that no matter what I know how great she is. That's all you can do, is shrug them off and stick with what you know is the truth. I think people "look down" on draft crosses because they are miffed others try to pass them on as warmbloods (which technically they are) and as with any cross of two totally different breeds there will be inconsistencies. I believe it is sort and I've seen so many terrible looking registered horses and numbers of unsound or insane "expensive" horses it is ridiculous. As with anything look at the individual. And nothing against Arabs as they are an incredible breed as a whole but are not exactly considered kings of the dressage ring... In fact I bet she's been beaten out a number of times by "inferior draft crosses".


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

My draft cross is an angel with a heart of gold who I wouldn't trade for anything. As far as I'm concerned, that lady is missing out with an attitude like that.


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## zookeeper1991 (Sep 11, 2012)

Thankfully this woman was someone you only had to deal with briefly at your work and not someone you are stuck with at your barn!


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