# Quarter Horse Brand Search



## Silberxx

Also:
It helps to add that I no longer live in Texas. I live in Michigan, so I can't very well go ask anyone around there. It's also not for sure that she came from Texas, just that she ended up there.
And too that even if I could search for her brands, I wouldn't know what to accurately call them all. Especially the waves.


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## stevenson

try googling ranch brands in the USA


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## Silberxx

I've spent days and hours doing so : /. Nothing even similar to any of them comes up. All I can find are brands that are ten-fold more intricate. I even tried searching the texas brand registry online, which you must do county by county, and you have to describe the brand with words, then it tells you that the brand is registered in that county. Except, it doesn't tell you if it's a cattle or horse ranch. Or what the name of the ranch is (in most cases). So I e-mailed every ranch in those counties where the brand was registered....and turned up absolutely nothing.


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## Spotted

You can call a branding inspector, they might be able to help. I believe all brands are recorded.


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## texasgal

Brands (in TX) are recorded by county and there are 285 or so counties ... I wish they had a national database...


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## Spotted

OII - Ownership Identification Inc. - B.C. Cattle & Horse Brand Registration

7 cannot be registered


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## Silberxx

Spotted said:


> OII - Ownership Identification Inc. - B.C. Cattle & Horse Brand Registration
> 
> 7 cannot be registered


Well that certainly helps.
Because that's one of the few that I couldn't figure out how to read if it was. 
Can brand inspectors be emailed? Because I have a feeling the brand I need (the rolling waves, or double quarter circles...whatever they are), is a local brand. Not the brand of a well-known ranch. But since I don't know where she came from...I'd have to contact the better half of all 48 continuous states' inspectors...because Texas is the last stop for horses going to mexico for you-know-what...so she likely (and probably did) came from somewhere other than Texas. Although it's not for sure.


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## stevenson

it said reverse L could not be registered as it conflicted with 7
I would still look under US Gov Brand records. or try that , or brand inspectors.
I would ask the rescue, where the horse originally came from, not the ranch, but the state or county. you would not be able to get her papers , as you are not the recorded owner, and do not have the sign off transfer papers.


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## texasgal

I think the two squiggly lines is the ranch brand ... I was looking at "Two Rivers" and stuff for that brand.

The numbers on the shoulder and butt can sometimes be an identifier for the rancher.

My geldings have the registered ranch brand (PR) on their left hip. On their cheek (face) is the number of the year they were born (9 and 10), THEN on their left shoulder is two numbers on top of each other. One of them indicates which stallion is their sire, the other is what number foal sired by that sire.

If their sire was stallion #11 and they were the 4th foal by that stallion that year then they were "11 over 4"

I said all that to say this: Look for the two squiggly lines brand .. I bet it has something to do with "rivers" ... the numbers are probably just identifiers..


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## Silberxx

She didn't come from a rescue. She came from a private group of 2 friends that pull horses. She also won't talk to me, as she's since made up some kind of story and the number of lies she's told, I wouldn't believe a word she said. According to her, my horse was 7 when I bought her and was broke before I even bought her. Except, she wasn't. She's 6 this year for sure, and she wasn't even halter broke when I bought her. 

If I can get back to her original owners, just knowing if she HAS papers might be enough. The woman who pulled her also told me that she's half registerable as a paint. So, I don't even know for sure that she's QH registered as much as paint. 

The woman that pulled her, also wouldn't tell me anything about where she came from. It's the agreement they have with the person that wants to ship them to the kill buyer. I know she was pulled from Dallas. That's all she was allowed to tell me. Because last time someone told who/where the person was that was selling them to the kill pen...he/she got death threats. 

Brand inspectors might be my best hope.


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## Spotted

Maybe this will help
Home - Horse Brand Search


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## Silberxx

Rivers! I never thought of that. I'll try that one. 

The two squiggly lines are definitely what I need to look for, as I said, I'm just not sure what to call them. I've tried rolling waves to no avail. I've tried double quarter circles to no avail.. rivers though is new. And hopefully fruitful! 

I tried that website, but I didn't see anything on there that was similar to mine...although I suppose cross-posting there couldn't hurt either!


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## texasgal

Two Rivers
Twin Rivers
Two Creeks
Twin Creeks
Two Streams
Twin Streams


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## texasgal

If she's just now 6 .. then she would have been born in '07 .. so that might be the 7 on her butt .. I love when brands tell a story ... it's like a puzzle!


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## texasgal

Are the two lines parallel with each other or is the bottom one a rocker?? It could be Rockin River ... etc. Or Rockin "something else" ...

just brainstorming .. (while I'm searching brands in the area around dallas county)


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## Silberxx

That's a thought that crossed my mind too. It could be like a rockin' lazy u or something. Who knew such a simple looking brand could be so many different things. I don't even know what to call it, so any brainstorms or any other ideas on what it might be (however creative they are) can help lol. Because we only need to be creative as the person who made it. But they could've been a creative genius for all I know lol. So anything you think of, just let me know..any possibility is a good one until we find the right one.


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## stevenson

look at california brand book . have fun.. tons of brands.


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## Silberxx

After some more research...someone told me that her brands are consistent with the brands they put on horses in the Huntsville, TX prison horse program.... anyone know anything more about this?


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## stevenson

I was looking at your photo again, is there a bar ___ over the 16 ? also the squiggly look more of a wide almost v shape upside down are ther brands on her other side?


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## stevenson

googled 'texas prison horses' call a Dustin at 281 673 5217 for info on prison horses. Brands on left shoulder are a star and a single digit. left hip if it was bred at the prison and thats the prison studs number. and left butt is for the unit it was used on..


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## Silberxx

I never noticed a line over the 16....but in the pictures, it looks like there might be... It doesn't exactly look like it in the newer pictures I have, but at the same time, I don't have many new pictures of that side of her. She has no brands on the other side...I don't think. But I'll post a few pictures of that side to see if maybe anyone finds anything I haven't seen before.

If I think I have a definite idea/possibility, I'd shave the spots, but not until it's warmer.


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## Silberxx

I'll definitely call tomorrow. But she doesn't have the star. So that's the biggest doubt in my mind. However, they do secretly sell to kill pens...so it's slightly possible. I'm glad you found a phone number because I was having absolutely no luck! I'm wondering if maybe she was a broodmare (if thats where she came from) and she wouldn't breed. Because when I got her, she was pregnant. Even though she wasn't supposed to be, and I didn't find out until 2 weeks before the baby was born.


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## stevenson

does not like look any on the right. shes cute.


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## Silberxx

Thank you! I bought her on the sheer fact that I got her to trust me enough to come up to me twice, because she didn't trust people at all. And she's turned out to be a really solid, safe horse. I'll post some newer ones here of the 16 to see if you can confirm if there's a line or not.
She DOES have a scar on her chest. So disregard that.
Just so you know it's of no importance lol


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## stevenson

no bar on top.. could have been mussed hair..lol... instead of a 16 that could be a diagonal bar l 6 dont know if they allow that because it would be confusing. the article did say the horses all had the stars. and most had saddle sore/scars . many mares would be brood mares.


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## Silberxx

stevenson said:


> no bar on top.. could have been mussed hair..lol... instead of a 16 that could be a diagonal bar l 6 dont know if they allow that because it would be confusing. the article did say the horses all had the stars. and most had saddle sore/scars . many mares would be brood mares.


Like I said... I'm going to call tomorrow. . If nothing else, maybe he's seen the brands somewhere else lol. But that's the biggest problem with the brand...knowing what it is to know what to look up. It's even crossed my mind to email every QH ranch and every brand inspector that I can get an email address for.... hoping it won't take that. .. but if I have to, I will
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dbarabians

The Texas and southwestern Cattle raisers association is responsible in Texas for inspecting brands at auctions.
As Texasgal posted you have to know the county in Texas the brand is registered in to get any information.
I have a similar story about a mare I have posted about before. She has an 86 on her left shoulder and a 0 on her left hip.
There are plenty of ranches that raise foals for to sell as an additional crop. they go to auctions and where they end up is left to fate. with the continued drought conditions ranches are still sending excess horses to auctions to reduce their herds/
Question since I do not attend local auctions how does one know which horses are in the "kill" pen? Shalom


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## dbarabians

Oh and she looks almost identical to the mare that I have. Blaze faced and no other chrome. Mine was sent through the auction near dallas also.
i bet they came fromt he same place. Millie is well trained though. She also promptly delivered a foal. 
their stories sound awfully similar. Shalom


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## Silberxx

dbarabians said:


> The Texas and southwestern Cattle raisers association is responsible in Texas for inspecting brands at auctions.
> As Texasgal posted you have to know the county in Texas the brand is registered in to get any information.
> I have a similar story about a mare I have posted about before. She has an 86 on her left shoulder and a 0 on her left hip.
> There are plenty of ranches that raise foals for to sell as an additional crop. they go to auctions and where they end up is left to fate. with the continued drought conditions ranches are still sending excess horses to auctions to reduce their herds/
> Question since I do not attend local auctions how does one know which horses are in the "kill" pen? Shalom


Usually the "kill pen" is a broad term. It depends on the auction house. With Camelot, there's one "feed lot" and the horses that don't sell privately there during their first sale or after, will run through the auction again next week, and if they didn't sell the first week, there's a good chance there's kill buyers looking to pick them off the next week for dirt cheap. At the New Holland auction, some horses go to kill buyers for as little as $10. Even big drafty, beginner safe horses. 
At other auctions, kill buyers "rent" a pen inside or outside the auction to hold the horses they buy before they load up and head out, so those are also referenced as " kill pens" although by all technical means...the only dictionary-kill pen is the one outside the actual slaughter house. The technically correct term for the pens most people call kill pens at auctions are actually "feed lots". But that's about how it goes. Generally if you see someone buying up loads of horses for very little money, they're probably a kill buyer, and you just look for their horse pen. Generally, if you give them what they paid or more, it's not uncommon for them to re-sell what's in their pen before they load it on the trailer. They also typically tag the horses once again before they leave so they can tell who-is-who because there's so many.

If I missed anything, anyone else can feel free to add.


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## Silberxx

stevenson said:


> googled 'texas prison horses' call a Dustin at 281 673 5217 for info on prison horses. Brands on left shoulder are a star and a single digit. left hip if it was bred at the prison and thats the prison studs number. and left butt is for the unit it was used on..


For anyone wanting to know about texas prison horses... do not call that number. That is not Dustin. He's a very nice southern man, but he's not Dustin and the only thing he knows about prisons is to stay out of them LOL.


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## GallopingGuitarist

You pretty much covered what 'kill pen' refers to. At Candiac and Yorkton SK there are two buyers that everyone knows buy any horses that don't get bid on. They also buy for other people. You'll see them on the phone and describing a horse to someone. Not everything they buy goes to the feed lots. 
Now, on the other hand, there are people (like the people who raised Ruby) who don't even give the horse a run through the auction. They were shipping 30 plus head of QH, Paint, Appy, and Morgan cross horses straight to the kill pen. Perfectly fine horses that just needed a bit of time to get gentle.


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## dbarabians

thanks for excusing my ignorance and explaining what a kill pen is.
i doubt that the numbered brands on either of our mares will ever be proven to belong to a ranch.
As someone has posted those numbers probably relate who the mares are by and what year they were foaled.
Just seems odd that both of us have mares sold through an auction near Dallas and branded with numbers instead of ranch inspired brands. Both foaled and look very similar.
glad both of them are safe and have good homes. Shalom


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## Silberxx

dbarabians said:


> thanks for excusing my ignorance and explaining what a kill pen is.
> i doubt that the numbered brands on either of our mares will ever be proven to belong to a ranch.
> As someone has posted those numbers probably relate who the mares are by and what year they were foaled.
> Just seems odd that both of us have mares sold through an auction near Dallas and branded with numbers instead of ranch inspired brands. Both foaled and look very similar.
> glad both of them are safe and have good homes. Shalom


You should e-mail me or add me on facebook if you can, I'd love to see pictures of her!
I'll PM you!

I'm hoping eventually someone will recognize the waves on my girl's hip. I'm hoping that's my saving grace


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## caljane

I am not from Texas, but it is very common to number brand our breeding stock here. Usually the buttock brand is done when they are babies (it is definitely a seven, and possibly it is a year brand). Number brands on hips and shoulders are usually only done to brood mares. That would explain why she hasn't been handled. Number branding is more common with fairly big breeders - in the US that would be a fairly certain sign that she is a Quarter Horse. Or Paint ... but you already assume that ...

The ranch brand is, unfortunately, not very good readable - however, there must have been a brand inspection when she was sold, I am surprised that this is not available? I do not see two waves but a "quarter circle holding water" over ... lazy lightning bolt? Do you possibly have a close up of the hip brand? 

Whereever she comes from - looks like a VERY nice horse, you did well!


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## Silberxx

Thank you very much! I always have to almost laugh when people compliment her, or me on finding her, because I really didn't buy her on any standards except I managed to get her to sniff me twice in one day. The quarter circle holding water is interesting..as is the lazy lightning bolt. It's amazing how just two lines can be explained so many different ways, and also a headache lol. It's worse than abstract art.
I have no way whatsoever of getting her brand inspection papers, because it's also muddy water whether she came from a kill pen at an auction, or a group of horses being sold directly to a kill buyer. So it's hard to even know if they exist.
I don't know if I have a close up, but I can see what I can find..and if not, maybe I can use the originals of the pictures I posted to bring it in a little more (the originals are huge)


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## Silberxx

I didn't find any actual close ups of it, and they're 2 hours away + fuzzy winter coats, so I won't be able to get any close ups until spring.. but here are some other views of it, when I first got her, that might show it a little clearer.


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## Silberxx

Okay guys,
I think I did it. I went through county by county in the texas brand registry, and e-mailed every ranch in every county that I found something similar. I didn't e-mail the ranch she came from, but I DID find someone who knew the guy I was looking for. 
I haven't talked to him yet, but he's Larry Holder of Holder Quarter Horses in Knox City, TX. Looking at all the horses pictured on the site, they all have the number in the same spot on the shoulder and the butt, and only one number on the shoulder. There's also at least one horse (beware, they're terrible quality)








where you can see the wavy things. I'm still not sure what they're called...but it's the only thing I've seen so far that looks identical.
And guess what guys, ALL his horses are registered.
I was also told, if I could just get her registered name (or hopefully her number), I can call the AQHA and ask them for an Application for Duplicate Registry for a lost registration. So I could get her papers. Now. I just have to muster up the courage to call him. I wish he did e-mail, but he seems like the old gruff and tough cowboy who probably doesn't even know how to use a computer lol


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## caljane

That is so cool! Yes, the brand of this horse definitely looks like the one on your mare. I am impressed how far you got with your search! Wish you good luck - let us know how it works out!


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## texasgal

The Blue Roan studs have the brand also ... You have to click on their picture to see other pics .. (and it won't let me copy) 

I think you've done it!


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## Silberxx

It looks like the stallions have a slightly different brand (most likely to identify them from far away as stallions vs. mares. But I was just looking at a 16/1 mare, and she's red roan.. which depending what the 16 means, she could be a sibling to my girl (if this is the guy) and red roan isn't too far off from solid red..right? 
I'm trying to muster the right words to ask when I call. Because I've never done this before, and I'm just really nervous.


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## texasgal

The red roan stallion could be daddy .. I think she's shaped like him.. and he's a cow pony bred top and bottom ...

(This is kinda exciting .. like opening presents on Christmas morning) ..

Maybe when you talk to him you can just say "I think I ended up with one of your horses and I was wondering if you could tell me who she is?" ..


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## texasgal

Another mare:


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## caljane

Silberxx said:


> I'm trying to muster the right words to ask when I call. Because I've never done this before, and I'm just really nervous.


First tell them how much you like the horse, how well build she is, what a great disposition, how smart, ... breeders love when they hear good things about their horses, and it makes them much more willing to help with uncommon requests!


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## texasgal




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## texasgal




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## Silberxx

Well, someone, dbarabians just brought up a good point, that maybe I should mail him by snail mail instead. If he's not computer savvy (which, he's older and doesn't have an e-mail, then he probably isn't) and if he's not computer savvy, he's probably even less so phone/picture messaging savvy, then there's no way to send him pictures to find out lol. So it makes for an awkward conversation. Unless he can instantly remember a 16/7 sorrel filly.. which he has so many, I think that's a long shot.
So I may mail him a letter with some pictures, and I will be sure to say how much I love her and how many compliments I get on her, as you suggested caljane..because she deserves to be bragged about. And I'll leave him the option to call me back once he reads it : )


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## Silberxx

Well. Scratch that idea. I guess phone call it is, and then address. All I can find on the site is his name, city, state and zip code. I could mail and hope, but I really do need a street address. Unless someone else is feeling google-savvy lol... I think I've to call.


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## caljane

Silberxx, I am sorry to bust your b***, but this is not going to happen. Really, I work a lot together with old time breeders - they will never take the time in their busy lives to react on snail mail. Call - take all your guts and call. Chances are very high that he will remember this filly. He breeds color and does not have many sorrels. Chances are actually very high that she is the filly in the picture with the bay roan 16/1 mare. The seven on her bud is obviously a year brand (makes her a 2007 model), and I assume that the shoulder brand get's carried down from the mare. My gelding has a number brand 14, came from his mom (unfortunately, it is a very ugly brand on him :-( ).
Call. Now!


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## dbarabians

Ask him about buying a colt or breeding to one of his stallions. that should break the ice. If he is that old practice on Faceman here and see if he is receptive. LOL Shalom


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## Silberxx

Lol.. well I tried to call the cell. Which at first it wanted to reject and say "That call cannot be compl-" and then it started ringing, and hung up after a few rings lol. That was weird. Trying the house phone now.


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## dbarabians

Knox City is pretty small and he probably doesnt have a street address.
All you have to do where I live is wright my name and city and state and the local post office will deliver the mail. Less than 700 people live near me in the closest town. Shalom


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## dbarabians

Just looked on the map and yes I ahve been through knox city it is on the way to Amarillo on highway 82 way past Witchita Falls and Childress. Out in ranching country. His name city and zip code will probably work if you address the letter that way. Not very many people live out there. His ranch lies among some of the largest in this country. famous ones too. Shalom


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## caljane

Why lie about it? You have a great horse (blablabla) with his brand. Now wondering if he remembers her (color, number brands) . I am sure he will be thrilled! And go from there. You will probably talk to his wife, anyway ;-)


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## Silberxx

So, got ahold of him, and he said she might be out of Bonnie Blue Holder if she's his. Gave me his address to send pictures. I'm hoping, guys. Cross your fingers! He asked about her and I said I had no idea what her name was, he said he had no idea if she's his. But he was really nice and he's definitely the old cowboy without the computer lol. So, I'm gonna get some pictures printed at the pharmacy and go from there. I need all the luck I can get right now!


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## caljane

dbarabians said:


> Knox City is pretty small and he probably doesnt have a street address.
> All you have to do where I live is wright my name and city and state and the local post office will deliver the mail. Less than 700 people live near me in the closest town. Shalom


You do this in my town (389 people) and the post master will give you a sermon about proper addressed mail


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## texasgal

Google is your friend:
*Larry Wayne Holder *

*(940) 657-xxxx *

xxxxx State Highway 6 S
Knox City, TX 79529-2710 

I still think calling is the better plan..


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## caljane

Silberxx said:


> So, got ahold of him, and he said she might be out of Bonnie Blue Holder if she's his. Gave me his address to send pictures. I'm hoping, guys. Cross your fingers! He asked about her and I said I had no idea what her name was, he said he had no idea if she's his. But he was really nice and he's definitely the old cowboy without the computer lol. So, I'm gonna get some pictures printed at the pharmacy and go from there. I need all the luck I can get right now!


Great! How exciting! Keep us in the loop!


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## texasgal

Oh geez .. there are two .. Larry John and Larry Wayne ... hehe


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## Silberxx

Lol! Caljane, I can imagine. And thanks texasgal, but I just talked to him : ). And got the same information from him. He's now expecting the pictures to be mailed. Now to figure out which ones to print!


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## texasgal

Silberxx said:


> So, got ahold of him, and he said she might be out of Bonnie Blue Holder if she's his. Gave me his address to send pictures. I'm hoping, guys. Cross your fingers! He asked about her and I said I had no idea what her name was, he said he had no idea if she's his. But he was really nice and he's definitely the old cowboy without the computer lol. So, I'm gonna get some pictures printed at the pharmacy and go from there. I need all the luck I can get right now!


 
This is cool. I think the "if she's his" thing is to distance himself if he knew where she ended up.

Take really good pics of the brands and her markings... this mare is his.


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## Silberxx

Well I told him that I bought her from some people that got her in Dallas, and they said they couldn't give me/didn't have her papers, so I have nothing and he goes "Hmm.. I wonder why" I didn't want to get on the wrong foot if he sent her there. That's not what I'm interested in finding out lol. I just wish it was summer so I could get conformation type pictures to send. But she's too fluffy for one, and two hours away. So we'll have to make do with what I have.

Cross your fingers, toes, legs, and arms. I'll let you guys know which pictures I send too!


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## texasgal

He's only got one stallion that is old enough to have sired a 2007 baby .. (well, technically 2) .. and if the red roan is her daddy .. I'm surprised she ended up like she did.












AQHA reining and working cowhorse point earners and World Show FinalistsNCHA COA & Eastern/Western Nat’ls Finalist, AQHA World Show Top Ten Amt. Cutting 
Siring NCHA & NRCHA money earners & aged event champions, AQHA reining & wch pt. earners & World Show Qualifiers.


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## Silberxx

Well. It is possible too that he sold the stallion that WAS her dad. He's even selling her mom right now. And he's got 2001 babies, and 2003 babies with "Holder" lines, and she was a 2007, so it's possible in the past 6 years that he's sold him. Or he used an off-ranch stallion.. Like I said, won't know anything until he gets the pictures, but the one he thinks is the mother, is Bonnie Blue Holder (if you look on the site, you can see her) and she's got a sorrel foal with her, so she IS capable of making them. I think he's the only one that could tell which stallion she came from. Because surely he has a stallion that does lol. I'm imagining right now that the sorrel foal shown with her IS my baby.


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## texasgal

She had a sorrel filly in 2011 also ... listed as roan .. but she is RED roan... lol


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## dbarabians

I just dont think that this rancher hauled that mare over 300 miles to a sale in Dallas. He might have sold her and she ended up there later but the distance and expense of hauling that far just doesnt seem like a good call. Especially with prices the way they are now and were then.
The drought out there has lingered for years so he might have hauled a few horses to cut down his herd and increase his sales.
if she was in a kill pen she has probably changed owners a couple of times. Shalom


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## Silberxx

Pictures have been mailed! I'll let you guys know as soon as I know something.


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## deserthorsewoman

Crossing fingers and toes for you.
I identified my rescue through her brand, the Cali brand book, found the owner of the brand who remembered my mare, told me if I needed any help with DNA samples for getting her papers he could do that, he had copies of her papers. Come to find out I got me a linebred Skipper W mare. 
It's a great feeling when you finally can put all pieces together!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Silberxx

Yes! Because I've had so many people tell me I'll never figure it out.
By the way. For curiosity's sake.
That brand, if it's his...he calls it a bull head.
I knew it was an abstract concept...but that one, I couldn't even pull out of my left cheek if my life would've depended on it lol.


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## deserthorsewoman

So it's horns......


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## Silberxx

yes! Like I said, I would've never seen that lol. It's just crazy how two simple lines can be interpreted as so many different things.


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## deserthorsewoman

If you have time, search for the Cali brand book. Every brand registered is in there, and some of them are downright artistic. How they are being read is a whole other story lol


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## stevenson

DHW .. wow skipper W , and they will help with the papers.. too cool !!
the calif brand site has neat stuff. There are strict regs with each brand. 
we were going to get into cattle, may still in the future, then we will get our brand registered.


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## Silberxx

I'm anxious.... does anyone have an AQHA membership that can look up Boneie Blue Holder by chance and see if she has any foals from 2007 registered?


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## stevenson

Siber .. that is great news. Horns  must be longhorns lol..
glad you found the info , will look forward to hear what he says.


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## deserthorsewoman

Yup, Skipper W....15 times.....and she looks it, too.
I tried to get in touch with her last recorded owner, who is also her breeder( the guy who branded her had bought her and later sold her back), but I had no luck. The listed phone number is not valid. Guess I'll have to go the long way through AQHA


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## Silberxx

deserthorsewoman said:


> Yup, Skipper W....15 times.....and she looks it, too.
> I tried to get in touch with her last recorded owner, who is also her breeder( the guy who branded her had bought her and later sold her back), but I had no luck. The listed phone number is not valid. Guess I'll have to go the long way through AQHA



Awerh, well I still feel like there needs to be a more efficient way to solve mysteries such as these.. I'm sorry you couldn't get ahold of him. I got lucky by just contacting a ranch that had contact with my guy and pointed me in his direction. Feel free to keep us updated here too on what you find of your's!


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## deserthorsewoman

Thanks
I did talk to AQHA, they will issue replacement papers, but have to trace every owner between me and the last recorded owner( the one I can't get a hold of). So that will take time. I really don't need her papers, she's 17, and I have no intention to breed. I would love to find out what she was used for, she had only one foal, so broodmare wasn't it.


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## Silberxx

Well, I mostly want papers for the legal aspect, as well as the fact she does have a filly she was pregnant with when I bought her. And I'd feel 400% better if I could atleast have papers for half of her breeding lol. Right now, I love her, but she's a mutt. And it'd be cool to be able to show my mare in AQHA shows. Besides, I'd feel better for her pain of being branded 3 times, if there are papers that come with them lol.


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## caljane

Silberxx said:


> I'm anxious.... does anyone have an AQHA membership that can look up Boneie Blue Holder by chance and see if she has any foals from 2007 registered?


Good one, I was thinking about doing the same thing! Unfortunately even with a membership it is not free to pull this kind of records. But you can call AQHA, tell them that you are trying to track the breeder of the horse you have down, and ask them if there was a foal born to Boneie Blue Holder in 2007, and if so, what sex, color and sire. Depends on the mood of the person you're talking to if they give you this information. If the first one doesn't, call again and hope for a different operator ... AQHA has mysterious ways :-o As a matter of fact - you can do that per e-mail too (contact form). They are usually very good in replying.


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## deserthorsewoman

I understand. She's still young too. 
Well, let's hope the rancher will give you all the info you need


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## Silberxx

Well, we'll wait and see what he says first.. We'll save that road for if/when she's not from him, and I have another possibility if I can't get ahold of the breeder lol


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## Nokotaheaven

"Holder Quarter Horses ~ Uncommon Cow Ponies ~ Standing Blue Roan Stallions ~ Quarter Horses bred for ranch or arena in Texas blue roans, duns, red roans, breeding Joe Hancock, Blue Valentine, Driftwood, Leo bloodlines"
looks like te brand lol


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## Silberxx

Looks like it, very much so! But with it being such a simple brand, it could be a registered brand somewhere else too D :


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## Nokotaheaven

Yeah :/
But I looked at some other mares and they also put a number on the same shoulder


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## Silberxx

She's got all three brands in the same spots he puts his. But I want to keep looking until I know for sure if she's his.


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## stevenson

I went to the site and looked also. thought maybe there were horses still in the sales list, but did not see her. They keep thier site cleaned up of sold horses ? i guess.


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## Silberxx

I don't know how often the site is/was updated, but another ranch that bought most of his horses a few years back told me he filed bankruptcy...so it's likely it hasn't been updated since he did so. He's also not computer savvy, so I'm assuming someone else updated the website before that (Probably CNR Quarter Horses).. but she could've been sold as a weanling, or sold right when he filed bankruptcy and never made it to the site, because I got her in 2010... She wasn't halter broke when I got her. So my theory is that she was either A. sold in a hurry, sooner than her could get to training her, B. supposed to be a broodmare, but it didn't pan out or C. anything other number of other circumstances lol.


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## Nokotaheaven

Ah okay :/
Well, I hope you can find out where she came from


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## deserthorsewoman

Well, it is up to date until late 2011 at least, there are 2011 weanlings for sale. He should be able to identify her and since he offers these pedigrees weanlings, more than likely yours has papers too. If he's the breeder, he can help you with AQHA then.


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## dbarabians

Looked at his website and I like that buckskin stallion.
Bancruptcy would explain why that mare was sold near Dallas
I hope this gets you the results you want . Thankfully he is a nice guy. Some of the older ranchers and farmers really like their privacy and can be short with strangers.
I was going to go out and look at his place but its almost to Amarillio. Nearly 400 miles from here.
I knew I had been there but with this state being so big I sometimes get those West Texas towns mixed up with the ones in the East. LOL Shalom


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## Silberxx

Well, guys. I just got a phone call. Good news is...she's his! Bad news is, he's no idea which mare and stud she's from. So finding papers is going to be hard, but if he can figure it out or find papers.. he's gonna call me back!


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## deserthorsewoman

Good news!!
If he has a general idea, which he should have, with the brands, it shouldn't be too hard. After all, there is mandatory DNA testing for QH. Since he offers 2011 foals with pedigree, his breeding stock should be tested and on file with AQHA.


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## Silberxx

He said he thinks she's out of Roy Boy Holder.. But that's all he knows. Any idea if I get ahold of someone friendly enough at AQHA they could tell me the names of the 2007 sorrel fillies he had registered in 2007? I think if I could give him the name, he could figure out who she is...but otherwise, I think I'm gonna have to search long and hard for all his fillies until I find one that might be here/has a picture.


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## deserthorsewoman

Maybe somebody here who is an AQHA member can search, I have no clue what data is available for members.


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## stevenson

cnr quarter horses shows Roy Boy Holder as a dun. that 7 could be an upside down L . on all breed pedigree, under progeny there are some 2006 mares 
Trixie O Leo roy boy holder x trixie holder / Coburn Creek ms b rbh x roan ann holder . coburn creek gig rbh x april roan holder . some 2005 and 2004 mares also listed there. He should have filed a breeder report . ask him if he has a copy of the breeders report, and see which mares bred to which stallion. 
the only thing i would suggest is to have her dna'd and go from there .


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## Silberxx

stevenson said:


> cnr quarter horses shows Roy Boy Holder as a dun. that 7 could be an upside down L . on all breed pedigree, under progeny there are some 2006 mares
> Trixie O Leo roy boy holder x trixie holder / Coburn Creek ms b rbh x roan ann holder . coburn creek gig rbh x april roan holder . some 2005 and 2004 mares also listed there. He should have filed a breeder report . ask him if he has a copy of the breeders report, and see which mares bred to which stallion.
> the only thing i would suggest is to have her dna'd and go from there .


Well I think that is my plan..it's only like fifty. .. I think. I just have to call them to find out. I also plan on double checking first to see if everything that comes from his ranch is papered... that's gonna be my biggest point to make first because as I recall. ..its not cheap to get a horse registered otherwise
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stevenson

I also looked up his mares and found a 2007 mare out of Red Roo Holder (she is on his website ) by a Cowboys buttermilk ... Maybe worth checking out..


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## Silberxx

Her name would be Roo Milk Holder...she's actually a bay : /. 
If I could just have a list of every "holder" horse, I could search their offspring, etc. and find one that might be her. But it's near impossible because CNR also has some of their's, and they breed together quite often, so holder horses aren't just at the Holder ranch.. It's hard finding Holder horses though because holder is a common word with horses...like "record holder" "point holder" etc. So it's a mess.


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## texasgal

Silberxx said:


> He said he thinks she's out of Roy Boy Holder.. But that's all he knows. Any idea if I get ahold of someone friendly enough at AQHA they could tell me the names of the 2007 sorrel fillies he had registered in 2007? I think if I could give him the name, he could figure out who she is...but otherwise, I think I'm gonna have to search long and hard for all his fillies until I find one that might be here/has a picture.


That mare is sporting 3 brands .. there is a branding system .. if he kept any kind of records at all .. (going out on a limb here) ... he knows.... or he could know if he put a bit of effort into it.

Keep after it.


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## deserthorsewoman

^^that's what I meant. He should be able to identify her through the brands. That's why they're being branded....to identify them even from a distance. If he can't remember or doesn't know maybe there is a cowboy or a foreman who could.


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## stevenson

Maybe he wants some incentive $$ to find the info


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## caljane

AQHA changes their data base on Feb 15, I have a voucher for pedigree records left over, so here it goes:

2007 REGISTERED offspring of ROY BOY HOLDER:
----------------------------------------------
*BOY SHES CLASSIE* 4974948 Chestnut Mare *04/06/2007* 
Dam- SKIPS CLASSIC ANGEL 4482286 Damsire- SKIP AND SLIDE 3289017 

*CUTTER BARS BELLE* 4964896 Dun Mare *05/11/2007* 
Dam- CUTTER BARS MAGIC 4345948 Damsire- TARIS JUDGE 3202501 

*EASY ROCKET FROST* 5118890 Dun Mare *02/27/2007* 
Dam- WINNA PEE WEE 3900195 Damsire- FISHERS SMOKEY JOE 3146725 

*FRIAS BUTTERFLY* 4966477 Dun Mare *03/09/2007* 
Dam- ANNA DRIFT HOLDER 4356245 Damsire- TRIPLE DRIFTER KN 3763571 

*IMA FRECKLED DOLL* 4957041 Bay Mare *05/12/2007* 
Dam- FRECKLE FACED BENITO 3948110 Damsire- TRIPLE COLONEL 2246310 

*RICOCHET ROY* 5036675 Bay Roan Stallion *05/15/2007* 
Dam- WING RICOCHET TWO 3976139 Damsire- RICOCHET TUCKER 3230189 

*ROYS BADGER BUDHA* 5027959 Dun Stallion *02/19/2007* 
Dam- ANGEL BADGER BUDHA 2871594 Damsire- BUDHAS DOC BADGER 2051496 

*ROYS FANCY CHICK* 5036676 Gray Mare *04/15/2007* 
Dam- YB CHICK FLICK 4337012 Damsire- ZANS LAST REQUEST 3820275 

*ROYS IMAGE HOLDER* 5029543 Dun Stallion *03/03/2007* 
Dam- TOS MISS IMAGE 4150836 Damsire- TEN O SEA 2964636 

*WC SKY BOY* 5036246 Bay Stallion *04/28/2007* 
Dam- JC BLUE CLEAR SKY 3558875 Damsire- ROYAL BLUEBERRY 2002587 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
My first guess was, because of the number brand, the mare Boneie Blue Holder, but she never had a sorrel foal:

*TOO BLUE HOLDER* 4757997 Blue Roan Stallion *05/04/2005* 
Sire- TRIPLE DRIFTER KN 3763571 

*MISS BAY GIRL HOLDER* 4948282 Bay Mare *04/24/2006* Parent Verified; Genetic Typed 
Sire- KIOWA DUN HOLDER 4470609 

*BONNY HOLDER* 5186445 Black Mare *04/04/2007* 
Sire- COWBOYS BUTTERMILK 4494617 

*RED BONE HOLDER* 5199855 Red Roan Gelding *04/28/2008* 
Sire- COWBOYS BUTTERMILK 4494617 

*CLABBER HOLDER* 5256043 Palomino Mare *05/02/2009* Parent Verified; Genetic Typed 
Sire- COWBOYS BUTTERMILK 4494617 

*BAY BONEIE HOLDER* 5424808 Bay Roan Mare *05/20/2011* 
Sire- COWBOYS BUTTERMILK 4494617 

Unfortunately we can barely go after colors anyway. This mare, Boneie Blue Holder, is registered Blue Roan, obviously a bay roan on the picture at the breeder's website, where he calls her a red roan - go figure. 

I have about two vouchers left - if you want to look into another pedigree/offspring record, let me know!


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## stevenson

Caljane.. that was very nice of you !..


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## texasgal

I say we look for the current owner listed on the first (only) chestnut mare listed...


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## caljane

texasgal said:


> I say we look for the current owner listed on the first (only) chestnut mare listed...


If a horse ends up in auction or otherwise rescue worth situations chances are very high that she never got transferred. Making it impossible to track down former owners through AQHA. 

This is interesting - the mare Skips Classic Angel sure looks a lot like Silberxx' mare:
*Skips Classy Angel
**2000 Sorrel mare*
16 hands 
she has just weaned a baby in these pictures 9/7/08
SOMETHING CLASSIC​CLASSICAL SKIPPERSKIP N TEEKASKIP AND SLIDEJOE SKIPIM DAISY MAEMY SPANISH AFFAIR​QUINCY FEATUREQUINCY SHOW BOYOTOES SHOWGIRLDOLL FACE QUINCYRED BEE MOORECUTTER BEE 67EDDIE 21






















 

... keep on researching


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## texasgal

Yesssssssssssss .. but even if the current LISTED owner doesn't CURRENTLY own her ... they could IDENTIFY her .. or not.


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## caljane

texasgal said:


> Yesssssssssssss .. but even if the current LISTED owner doesn't CURRENTLY own her ... they could IDENTIFY her .. or not.


The current listed owner would be the breeder - who said hat he can not identify her ... maybe he remembers if Silberxx can throw some names on him. It is a bit though to understand, but these breeders are sometimes weird. I work with one together who number brands his mares. He never talks names but he calls them like "the old number nine mare". I don't think any of his breeding stock has a name. Of course, they are registered, but they are all refered to by number, color or something else that sticks visibly out.


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## dbarabians

caljane you are correct.
In the pedigrees of some of the older QHs you see mares named brown mare, johnson mare, etc.
they do not name all their horses or call them by anything.
if we are going to sell a horse here I may not name it unless I register it. The colt born in 2011 is called the 'Colt" the filly born last year is the filly, her mother was 86 because of the brand or the sorrel mare.
I do not waste a lot of emotion on a horse that isnt going to stay here, I am not going to get attached to it and then sell it. 
These horses are livestock not pets. None of mine know their name. they come running if you honk a horn, whislte or yell yo. Shalom


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## texasgal

caljane said:


> The current listed owner would be the breeder - who said hat he can not identify her ... maybe he remembers if Silberxx can throw some names on him. It is a bit though to understand, but these breeders are sometimes weird. I work with one together who number brands his mares. He never talks names but he calls them like "the old number nine mare". I don't think any of his breeding stock has a name. Of course, they are registered, but they are all refered to by number, color or something else that sticks visibly out.


Oh, so you've looked and the mare was NEVER transferred and is still listed as his horse. Okay, I missed that. Sorry.

I DO understand how some of those old breeders work. I know one very well, and when an auction house from 200 miles away calls him because his ranch brand is on a horse going through their auction. He asks them what the cheek and shoulder brand numbers are and in very short order, he knows EXACTLY who that horse is. He won't know their NAME, but he knows who they are.

There is a PURPOSE for those brands. They tell a story. With a little bit of record keeping, the story tells itself.

imo


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## Tryst

You might consider contacting CNR too. If they work with the Holder ranch a lot they may be familiar with the Holder Ranch brand coding and be able to help decipher who your mare is out of.


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## FGRanch

Any updates?


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