# Opinions on Parelli driving dvds?



## Left Hand Percherons (Feb 1, 2011)

Not a fan of Parelli either but I watched Nate grow up from a distance and took a few driving lessons with his late father Steve who was a true teamster. He learned from one of the best but I have not followed Nate to know who's footsteps he is following.

Pricey.


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

"Once more unto the breach" )

I'll make this simple. You cannot teach or learn horsemanship (or whatever they call it now days) from a book, video, etc.... All these people "selling" it to you are just after your money. All the people who buy it are just ignorant of what it really takes. Ignorant is not a bad term. It just means they don't know. Stupid is the bad term )

PP sells someone a system for training a horse (as he's done for to a lot of people for a long time). However, what happens when what he says do doesn't work. The horse doesn't respond like PP says it will (or he claims it should). Contrary to what PP and LP have said after screwing up, it's not the horse that's the problem. It's the way they are trying to train it. Horses are like people in one major aspect. They are each individuals. What worked great for teaching horses A, B, D, E, and H does not work for horses C, F and G. So what happens when the person is training from a book or video has a horse that PP's instructions don't work with? PP says just do it more (even more vigorously or violently....I don't think I've every wanted to strangle someone as mush as LP after seeing some things she did). What happens is you end up greatly increases the odds that you'll have a messed up horse. A horse that didn't have a problem until someone tried to teach it in a way that was not going to work with that horse. I've seen horses react near violently to some of PP's techniques, but were wonderful horses and with a different approach were doing what you wanted in less than 10 min (once they understood what was being asked of them). I sit you in a chair and say something in Manderin Chinese and if you don't do the right thing I pull you over in the chair. If after each time to pull you harder until eventually I'm jerking you out of the chair onto the floor. Are you learning what I want you to do? Obviously not. I need to try something different since saying what I want and jerking you out of the chair isn't helping you figure out what I'm saying.

So you buy what these people are selling you and it doesn't work. What do you do then? Mess up your horse by insisting that it has to work and keep doing the same thing? Training a horse is a as much about the philosophy of understanding horses as it is about any techniques. 

Granted. I was spoiled by having men to teach me who were born into a era when automotive vehicles were rare (and sometimes unknown) and horses were still the primary "vehicle" in use. So when I ran into a problem (sometimes ones they created to get a laugh out of watching me  ) I had their knowledge and decades of experience to fall back on. I went to the last of their funerals in June when my grandfathers nephew Russell (one my youngest mentors) died at 87. A man who, even in his 80's, still plow and gathered parts of his crop in with team. He left behind two beautiful Percherons that he had started to train (as well as other assorted teams).

Point is that it doesn't matter what you're training a horse to do (riding or driving). A book or video is only any good if what it tells you to do works with that horse. And even if one things it tells you works it doesn't mean the next thing will. Even with the same horse. If what you try doesn't work you better be able to realizes it and have something else to fall back on. There are many "right" ways of teaching horse to do something and many "wrong" ways (if it isn't working it's the wrong way). If the horse picks up on it immediately and does it consistently without a problem then it's probably right. If they don't seem to understand what your asking them to do and not acting in an expected manner then it's probably not the right thing and you need to be able to take a different approach. Books and videos don't (and can't) cover all of that. An experienced trainer can.


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## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

*training the idividual.*



its lbs not miles said:


> "Once more unto the breach" )
> 
> I'll make this simple. You cannot teach or learn horsemanship (or whatever they call it now days) from a book, video, etc.... All these people "selling" it to you are just after your money. All the people who buy it are just ignorant of what it really takes. Ignorant is not a bad term. It just means they don't know. Stupid is the bad term )
> 
> ...


you are 100% right there in indevidualalaty and personalaty thay are not all the same and it takes different ways to train and get the responce required.
the main problem is us we want them to learn but if you stand back and see how the horse thinks and work out his personalaty work on that so you end up with a repore between you and the horse.
i use treats as a reward scheam and it works for me and i have a happy outgoing horse that knows when to work and play and gets rewarded in games asking for feet left or right asking to speak nickers or neighs.
it opens up there own mind and boy thay learn and get realy smart.
for exhamlpe i chew then thay chew i tell them do you want a treat and thay hold a fore leg up you can have a repore with your horse and actions speak louder than words.
i have taught my pony that the door opens on the tempary garage were the feed bin is and its got zips on both sides of the door its like a tent that best discribes it.
i zip it up and the smart pony puts his head down and the door lifts up along his back and there he is happy with a grin on his face to say im here and i love this hay or if im at the feed bin his head comes in lol to grab some feed.
desensatised no fear a compleat understanding.
he solved his own problems on how to get in.
and he is a happy pony.
and knows were the bounderys are and when i say no.
this pony was a rescue and was beaten from piller to post as a foal and has been with me nearley 30 years now.
im proud of what he has acheaved and thats why he has spirit and not a crushed one.


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## ThunderingHooves (Aug 10, 2013)

its lbs not miles said:


> "Once more unto the breach" )
> 
> I'll make this simple. You cannot teach or learn horsemanship (or whatever they call it now days) from a book, video, etc.... All these people "selling" it to you are just after your money. All the people who buy it are just ignorant of what it really takes. Ignorant is not a bad term. It just means they don't know. Stupid is the bad term )
> 
> ...


I agree with some of what you're saying. I also agree that having a trainer work with you instead of reading about it or watching a video is the best approach however it's not always possible. Sometimes finding a trainer is hard, especially if it's as specific as driving, and not every trainer is a good trainer. Sometimes good trainers can also change and you don't view them as good trainers anymore. I wouldn't necessarily call someone ignorant because they go and buy a training set. They might be attempting to try to learn, which is better than just not trying at all. 

I have noticed that a lot of the trainers show their method with horses that already know what to do. Which is one of the reasons that I like Clinton Anderson, who shows the method with some unruly horses. I agree that a trainer's method might not work for every horse, but you do have the options to use other methods. So if one doesn't work you can try another. There is nothing stating that you have to use only one method. Personally I feel that a good trainer will have different techniques to training, so if one way doesn't work they can try another one.


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

ThunderingHooves said:


> I agree with some of what you're saying. I also agree that having a trainer work with you instead of reading about it or watching a video is the best approach however it's not always possible. Sometimes finding a trainer is hard, especially if it's as specific as driving, and not every trainer is a good trainer. Sometimes good trainers can also change and you don't view them as good trainers anymore. I wouldn't necessarily call someone ignorant because they go and buy a training set. They might be attempting to try to learn, which is better than just not trying at all.
> 
> I have noticed that a lot of the trainers show their method with horses that already know what to do. Which is one of the reasons that I like Clinton Anderson, who shows the method with some unruly horses. I agree that a trainer's method might not work for every horse, but you do have the options to use other methods. So if one doesn't work you can try another. There is nothing stating that you have to use only one method. Personally I feel that a good trainer will have different techniques to training, so if one way doesn't work they can try another one.


1. Unless someone is also stupid, then hopefully the only reason they would pay for some "canned" training DVD is because they are ignorant. As I said, ignorance "means they don't know". Or if you want a dictionary definition "lacking knowledge, information or awareness a bout something in particular". In this case they buy it because they lack the knowledge about training a horse. That makes them ignorant. Does not necessarily make them stupid. Just means they are grabbing whatever they can to avoid remaining ignorant.

2. It is true that finding trainers is not always easy. Finding good trainers is even more difficult, because in some cases the "trainer" has been taught and "certified" by the same people who put out these canned training systems so they can't think outside the box (or the "can" in this case). They only know what they were taught and not how to move beyond that if need be. Even so, you're better off looking for someone who understands horses and how to work with them then blinding putting you faith (and money) into a canned training system. Keep in mind that not everyone who knows how to do it is a "trainer". I'm NOT a horse trainer (in the since that it's not something I do as a job). I started training horses (mare, stallion and gelding) when I was 14 and I still work with them, but I have no certification. I don't go around looking for horses to train. In most cases I prefer to just work with my own, but I do get tracked down (including at a funeral in this latest cases) by people who want to get me to work with a horse. Sometimes I say yes (after checking out the animal), but I never say I'm a trainer. And even though I started with horses before some of the people I help were born I still make no claim to know everything there is to know. Just because I've never met a horse I couldn't teach doesn't mean that I know every trick there is. It just means that I've either been shown, or in some cases figured out on my own, different ways of teaching things to a horse.

3. All these "experts" have a following. All of them do things that will work with many horses. I'll go out on a limb and say that they all know how to be able to work with any horse (i.e. deviate from the techniques and practices that they put out as the way to teach a horse to do something). They are unlikely to be ignorant of what horses are like and what it takes. I've seen PP work with a horse that he failed with miserably the previous day. His "system" did not work. Next day he didn't use what he sells, but did what would work for that horse with complete success. The knowledge was there, but as I said to begin with...you can't sell that, because it's not a technique, it's the ability to read the animal and figure out what will work. To put all that would be needed would fill volumes of books and even then they would miss something. No one alive knows every possible way of working a horse through something. Often things are worked out just because the person understands horses in general and the specific horse in particular so they come up with something new that does the trick (how do you think all this various ways of working with horses came about to begin with) ).

Training horses is not about following someone's "system". It's about the philosophy of understanding horses in general and the horse you're working with in particular. Helps a lot for the horse to get to know and trust you. Those will always hold true. But there is nothing I do in training a horse to do something that I would be willing to stake my life on it ALWAYS working. It might have worked with every horse I've dealt with for the last 45 years, but that doesn't mean that there aren't horses somewhere out there that would need a different approach.

That's the problem with a canned training system. It teaches a system. What you need is a training philosophy based on an understanding of horses. A knowledge of the horse you're training. The ability to think about what might work when what you tried is clearly failing. PP, CA, MR and anyone who sells a training program did not learn how to work with horses from some canned training program. They did learn that they can make money by selling a few tricks they know to people who are ignorant training horses. And if these tricks don't work with that horse then to often it's the horse that ultimately suffers for it. But they got their money and that is, after all, what it's all about for them.

Until you can make every horse have the same personality, liking and fearing the exact same things, and reacting the same way to everything, you won't be able learn horsemanship from a book of DVD. The philosophy of how to understand and train a horse would be far more useful, but they can't really sell that, because they can't trade mark it. It's been around as "common knowledge" for way too long. They almost certainly all know it. Just can't sell it and they wouldn't be able to make much money on it if they could.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

A system gives you a basis to deviate from. Some of us didn't start with horses in our teens, or have experienced people around to help us out all the time. DVDs, videos, books and this forum help. And since some of the worst advice I've gotten in riding came from people who grew up around horses, there is no guarantee with anything.

I'm not a Parelli fan, but a system of training is a start. Then one needs to pay attention to the horse, and modify as needed. Every beginner will dig a few holes and then need to fill them in. It is the only way to learn.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Over the years I've watched the Parelli system add more and more until finally he came out with liberty. I guess I did it backwards, I started with liberty, in the pasture. Screwed up in how I directed the horse but no harm done. He did as I was asking altho not always what I wanted which made me rethink how I asked. The horse taught me as much as I taught him and what a journey! If the OP wants to watch driving videos, freebies, google youtube and type in barryhook. This man rehabs driving horses and has lots of examples and explains some of the whys and wherefores.


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

Saddlebag said:


> Over the years I've watched the Parelli system add more and more until finally he came out with liberty. I guess I did it backwards, I started with liberty, in the pasture. Screwed up in how I directed the horse but no harm done. He did as I was asking altho not always what I wanted which made me rethink how I asked. The horse taught me as much as I taught him and what a journey! If the OP wants to watch driving videos, freebies, google youtube and type in barryhook. This man rehabs driving horses and has lots of examples and explains some of the whys and wherefores.


 I'd forgotten about Barry (which I should have remembered....my ex is a Brit and I've spent more than my fare share of time in the UK). A brilliant trainer of driving horses. You'll notice that he hasn't got a series of books and videos for sale (or at least he didn't...I haven't looked to see if he's changed his mind about making more money that way). That's because he understands that you can't really teach a horse from a book unless you get lucky. What it says might work, but what do you do when it doesn't. A dare say a lot of the problems he's dealt with on horses has been the result of people using a canned system that didn't work for the horse and the result was a messed up horse. Most people who know nothing about training a horse to start with are not going to learn how to read the animal and think outside what their are being told in the book or video. For most of them what the book or video says do is the end all. Which means if it doesn't work then they don't know what to do. Unless he's changed his mind, Barry would likey say something along the same lines. At least he use to feel that way .

I didn't know Barry had anything out on youtube. I'll have to look it up. Has he lost any weight? He was carrying a lot of weight before. He is brilliant. In England he's the man to send a horse for training and especially if it's been messed up. He has an incredible reputation. If I wanted to learn to train horses to pull (and money was no object) I'd see about going back to England for an extended stay and learning from him. He is the best I know of anywhere and apparently had a habit that I have of talking sweet to horses (when I train one it's always "darling" or "sweet heart", but I can't remember what name(s) he used). Maybe it was just the horse I saw. Can't say for sure if he does that with them all ).


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

THANK YOU BARRY HOOK 

I was looking at some of his videos. Watched part 1 and part 2. I would like everyone to listen to what Barry says at the start of part 2. He says it better than I did (and he is a professional training....among the best).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPP...d=NOtqwkxDMIo&annotation_id=annotation_527498


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

Saddlebag said:


> If the OP wants to watch driving videos, freebies, google youtube and type in barryhook. This man rehabs driving horses and has lots of examples and explains some of the whys and wherefores.


Best suggestion I've seen. Barry has loads of stuff on youtube. It will take many, many hours to look at them all, but there will probably be some wonderful information in some of them. What I saw was just showing the end results with not any training information, but he could have some with training information. If so, they would be worth watching.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

I love Barry Hook, and have watched as many videos as I can stand......sorry, but you will not learn much by LISTENING to them. He just drolls on and on about driving the animals "wit' uh bit ov rubber in their mout's". 

You have to know enough to be able to Observe what he does and does not do.....which is really the same with any REAL horse trainer.....shut your mouth and WATCH what they do.....because if they are talking, it is probably not the same thing they are saying!


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Barry seems to be a kindly man. A few years ago I emailed him as I'd never heard of a hammerhead. He responded within a few days that a hammerhead is 3 horses in a row in front and two behind. Who knew! The rubber bits he uses can be a trick to get in North America. There are stiff rubber bits for sale but it took a lot of searching to find a softer one like Barry uses. Big difference in price too, the better ones being the more expensive ones.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

I would LOVE to be able to travel over there to be a fly on the back of his carriage!!


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

) Actually, I enjoy listening to Barry, but then I'd spent a lot of years listening to Brits and Irish talk. In the video of Barry's that I posted the link too there's really nothing to watch that I would consider really educational. If you listen to what he says in about the first 3 minutes it's probably the most important thing you should know BEFORE you spend a bunch of money on some book or set of DVD's that some modern horse training snake oil salesman wants to sell you claiming it will show you how to train your horse. Something good to listen to even before you decide to train your own horse.

***remember that most "snake oil" wasn't really harmful if taken in moderate dozes and often did make the imbiber feel better (alcohol and/or drugs can have that effect) ). It just wasn't the magical "cure for whatever ails you" that the salesman claimed. It was just a way for them to part you from you money and make you feel good about it, because you've found a cure (at least you would think you had0. And if you were just wanting something to ease a pain it sometimes did that (so it must be the magic cure) )***


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

greentree said:


> I would LOVE to be able to travel over there to be a fly on the back of his carriage!!


Barry is a little over an hour drive from my ex's house (less than an hour if she's driving) ). I'm always amazed at him driving teams down those little roads they have over there. Our back country roads are wider than what he lives on and drives those horses on, but he is amazing in how he does it and how well he trains those horses to do it. Most people in the US would have a heart attack driving a team down those narrow roads with cars and "lorry's" coming past you from the front and passing you from the rear.


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## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

*fly on the back of a carrage.*

greentree if i win the lotto here you and taffy are on your way hows that for a bucket list of things to do.
well i have not seen him i think i am the same way as him lol i all ways talk to my horses all the time and thay talk back in there own special way.
from the horse actions speak louder than words.
i could not stop laughing whats that wubber thinamy bob his on a bout when i read that i fell about laughing.
ill have to take a look.
well if your a fly please dont get swatted.
michael.


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## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

*pounds not miles*

were were you from in england.
im just out side london in enfeild.
ill have to check him out when i have the time.
thanks.
michael.


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

michaelvanessa said:


> were were you from in england.
> im just out side london in enfeild.
> ill have to check him out when i have the time.
> thanks.
> michael.


) I'm not "from" England (born in the US and spent most of my childhood in Deutschland). My ex was born in Littlehampton and is now back living in her house in Barnham. Her parents were living in Yapton. My ex has finally given up on trying to get me to just come live with her over there. As much as I enjoy the UK (there's a lot to enjoy), moving there would mean a major reduction in my standard of living. Not to mention I would not be able to keep my horses the way I want (wouldn't have the real estate and they would not be happy without at least more than 5 acres to call their own for grazing and running aournd) ). They're on about 10 acres now and that meets their needs nicely.

I spent most of my time in the UK in London since that's were I tended to work the most. Usually stayed at the Thistle at Marble Arch (had a great executive lounge, did fabulous breakfast and was no more than a 2 min walk to the 3 Tuns if I wanted to pop in for a pint - or 2 - and some steak and ale pie or bangers and mash with onion gravy....I think I miss the pubs most) ). Spent time with friends around Braintree, Kings Lynn, Portsmouth. Have had some good times with a friend who lived right outside of Glasgow (and yes, I've eaten haggis and yes, I like it) ). And of course I spent a fair amount of time down around Barnham and Chichester (where the Shepherds Tea room had the best scones with a cream tea for a light lunch) ).

None of which has anything whatsoever to do with what the OP was wanting to know )))).


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