# missing frog!?



## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

She might've had something in there irritating under the frog, like a pebble, then the thing sloughs off and a new one grows back, quite quickly too. However, it's best to get a professional opinion on this, I would if it were my horse.


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

I will be getting a professional opinion but it won't be for another 2 hours. In the mean time I'm freaking out like a first time mother LoL if I had the car this wouldn't even be a thread but I'm stuck at home worrying until the hubby gets off work. The only picture they got is too poor of quality to tell me anything so I'm left to ponder their descriptions. I got out my vet book and Googled missing frog. My best judgement as a vet tech is that it's caused by the thrush. I've just never dealt with anything like it because I've always lived in very dry places and thrush never got this bad. Its been a very frustrating winter fighting thrush. As soon as I get it under control and stop using the thrush meds, it pops back up. Its been non stop thrush buster everyday for months now 

Has anyone else experienced this? I feel like an awful owner right about now...
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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

Here is the pic they sent me... the green is a thrush medication









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## Copperhead (Jun 27, 2012)

I can't really make much out of the photo since the medication was applied, but it looks like the frog is still there? Unless its that area near the bulbs, but I can't tell whether its missing or if the light is hitting it oddly.

Honestly, I wouldn't freak out too much. I'd go check and see myself and make an educated decision on what to do. If she wasn't in any pain during the lesson, she isn't in any pain now.

I use peroxide for thrush. It attacks the bacteria and dries out the hoof immediately. I've only used it 3 days in a row because of how effective it is. You don't want to over-use it because it can dry the hoof out too much. I put peroxide in a squirt bottle and use it that way. Much cheaper than Thrush Buster and much more effective.


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

Are you sure she didn't just shed it ? Most horses shed 2x a year, some times more, but most owners never notice.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

I assume it's warming up where you live and any snow is melting? Because that's a natural trigger for them to shed their frog. Completely normal. My farrier usually cuts mine mares' out if they're loose, but if it's between trims, I can pull off chunks as they detach. 

Between frog shedding and sole exfoliating, their hooves look like they're just falling apart, but it's all good.


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

She definitely has thrush because we've been fighting it all winter. I researched the shedding and 50% say they shed the whole frog and the other 50% says they only shed small layers. Some say they don't shed at all. IDK its all very confusing and controversial. And yes the weather is warming up and the snow has officially melted.
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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

I know the picture is horrible. Its the only one I have and I am just now able to head out there. I'll update when I know more but please keep the advice and any similar stories coming 
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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

All we can do it keep it dry and clean...
Its obviously sore cause she doesn't want it messed with but she isn't limping or favoring it. Sorry about the pics. It was the best I could get.

Treatment plan: clean daily with bleach solution in a spray bottle, pick hooves twice a day to keep mud out, treat daily with thrush buster and wait and watch...
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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

There's still frog from what I can see (would've helped if it would've been cleaned prior to pictures). I highly doubt any soreness is from her frog shedding, I'll put money on the soreness being from the thrush.

But..from what it looks like, her hooves are too long all the way around and she could probably use a trim.
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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

Yes She is due for a trim. My farrier will be back out Friday for the trim and I do agree the soreness is from the thrush. Like I said sorry about the pictures. I was by myself and once I treated it for the day I didn't want to keep messing with her foot so I only got before pictures. im going to be checking and cleaning her feet in just a few hours so I might be able to get clean pictures then.
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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

I'll wait for cleaner pictures then. 
Hopefully I can see/comment on anything I missed on the current pics.
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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

Iseul said:


> I'll wait for cleaner pictures then.
> Hopefully I can see/comment on anything I missed on the current pics.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks. I'll try for better pictures here in the next half hour. Any particular pics I should get? Different angles? Its a bit hard to get them by myself so I'm going to recruit my son to hold her foot while I get them lol hopefully I can get some good shots.
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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

DISCLAIMER: I know her feet need to be done and we have an appointment on Friday. Due to life circumstances such as injury and unexpected travel, it got put off a few weeks. She has good hooves but boy do they grow quick. Yes I know it shouldn't have been put off. So please disregard the length (which isn't bad just due for a trim) unless it contributes to the subject at hand: the frog and missing chunks. Thanks  I feel pretty guilty already that I failed to prevent a problem. Horses though... maybe we should just bubble wrap them LoL

OK So I did get more pictures but they aren't the greatest. It is very hard to do alone. I had to hold her foot and take the pictures at the same time and she didnt want me messing with it after I finished cleaning it, which is when I got the pics but... I don't have a mat or cement to stand her on and after I cleaned her hooves I tried to get it dry but before I could grab my camera she managed to get it dirty again lol but I think these are a bit better and although I think its bad my farrier said I was just being a paranoid mommy. So here are the new pics...


















































Any opinions? Advice? Similar stories?
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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

Bare Foot Horse
HOME - The Natural Hoof - Barefoot Horse Riding
I recommend these websites. 
I wouldn't be using that farrier anymore either. your horse is not being trimmed properly, hope these will help you to see what needs to be done. 
His heels are very long and looks to have a build up of dead sole. Even if he had a frog, he problably would be getting any frog pressure.


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## RiverBelle (Dec 11, 2012)

I don't know anything about this, and it may be normal, but I would be freaking out too! Poor thing has half it's hoof missing! Lol.

If the farrier said its ok, I would say it's ok. But still... It sure looks strange.

And I agree. We need to bubble wrap our horses and leave them in a 12x12 box to keep them from hurting theirselves. lol


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

I think what you are seeing is more illusion than issue. I think you are seeing a shrunken, narrow frog(a product of poor trimming and thrush) and an over grown hoof structure that is amplifying it. It looks like the wall and sole need to be trimmed back quite a bit. I think if you get on a better trimming schedule and keep her hooves dry the frog will look a lot better.
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## RiverBelle (Dec 11, 2012)

I asked my farrier about it when he came out yesterday. He had never seen anything like that before, but said the only thing he could think of was that maybe there had been a pebble get under it, it abscessed, then the frog just broke loose. It was hard for him to say, just looking at pictures. He said "Let's find out where she lives and go take a look!" haha. He was fascinated.


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

RiverBelle said:


> I asked my farrier about it when he came out yesterday. He had never seen anything like that before, but said the only thing he could think of was that maybe there had been a pebble get under it, it abscessed, then the frog just broke loose. It was hard for him to say, just looking at pictures. He said "Let's find out where she lives and go take a look!" haha. He was fascinated.


My farrier did mention this as a possibility. Problem is that there is no way to know for sure. I pick her feet every time I see her and there were no signs or symptoms of anything. Wish I knew what it was  All we can do is keep it clean and wait for it to grow back. I'll post updated pictures soon. I got hurt again and am laid up for a few days.
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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

I hope you and your horse feel better soon.


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## Glenknock (Feb 27, 2013)

Ok so i cant see the pic;s **** computer but i do have a mare that had thrush for about 3yrs every winter before we finally got it under control. We used to wash her hooves she'd stand in a bucket then when they dried out we'd spray with iodine. now she's fine hasn't suffered in about 2yrs but she has no frog its flat to the sole of her hoof and farrier said its fine nothing to worry about. I do realise it may be different with horse's not shod but i'd try iodine it worked wonders on poor jessie


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

Critter sitter said:


> I hope you and your horse feel better soon.


Thanks  I'm a total clutz... fractured ankle from tripping in a mole hole, a month ago I tore a ligament in my knee tripping up the stairs... been an interesting month or two lol when it rains, it pours  luckily I'm a good healer and hopefully will be back in the saddle soon 
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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

Glenknock said:


> Ok so i cant see the pic;s **** computer but i do have a mare that had thrush for about 3yrs every winter before we finally got it under control. We used to wash her hooves she'd stand in a bucket then when they dried out we'd spray with iodine. now she's fine hasn't suffered in about 2yrs but she has no frog its flat to the sole of her hoof and farrier said its fine nothing to worry about. I do realise it may be different with horse's not shod but i'd try iodine it worked wonders on poor jessie


Id like to see pics if you have them? Was the frog always flat or just after the thrush? I've been using bleach and a thrush Med. Seems to be clearing up pretty well but every time I get rid of it and stop treating it comes back  very frustrating
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## Trinity3205 (Dec 21, 2010)

Actually, those bars are the real problem. They are long thick and holding in loads of false sole all around the frog like a retaining wall. The heels and bars are WAYYYYY overgrown allowing the hoof to stand too tall and keeping the frog from ground contact. Yes there is thrush but it is from improper hoof mechanism and looks like dirty conditions. Lets see an after trim set of photos.

ETA, this is a fast fix with a good trimmer, clean conditions and clean treated feet.


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## Glenknock (Feb 27, 2013)

I'll try get pic's up tomorrow for you, i know it is very frustrating but i'd give the iodine a go it kills everything and is really cheap so wont cost alot. I know when it come's to tried and tested we like to stick to what we know but i've been there and done it i can promise you it'll work. 
Jessie's frog's are only flat since the thrush at one stage they just disintagrated the thrush was so bad. It does'nt cause her any problems but i do clean her hooves out regularlly and keep feet in good condition - and i'm not giving a dig about doing hooves every day because its not possible all the time but just as often as you or a friend can. 
Praying for a speedi recovery for you and your horse xxxxxxxxx


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

Glenknock said:


> I'll try get pic's up tomorrow for you, i know it is very frustrating but i'd give the iodine a go it kills everything and is really cheap so wont cost alot. I know when it come's to tried and tested we like to stick to what we know but i've been there and done it i can promise you it'll work.
> Jessie's frog's are only flat since the thrush at one stage they just disintagrated the thrush was so bad. It does'nt cause her any problems but i do clean her hooves out regularlly and keep feet in good condition - and i'm not giving a dig about doing hooves every day because its not possible all the time but just as often as you or a friend can.
> Praying for a speedi recovery for you and your horse xxxxxxxxx


Thanks 
And I'll try anything at this point lol
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## Gent N Diva (Aug 12, 2010)

Okay, honestly, horses shed frog all the time, it's not abnormal, especially if they are overdue for a trim and/or living in wet conditions. It's nothing to worry about. It probably was not a pebble or anything else, merely shedding frog in wet conditions due to a lot of foot overgrowth. The bars and heels on those feet don't look a few weeks overdue unless you have a poor farrier, sorry to say. Keep treating for thrush and the frog will grow back just fine. My horses regularly shed frog when they get overgrowth and they get soft from being wet, like in springtime. They usually don't shed frog from thrush either unless it's left untreated. It really doesn't look like anything to concern yourself with, get a trim, treat the thrush regularly, and frog will come back just fine.


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## Roadyy (Feb 9, 2013)

countrylove said:


> Thanks  I'm a total clutz... fractured ankle from tripping in a mole hole, a month ago I tore a ligament in my knee tripping up the stairs... been an interesting month or two lol when it rains, it pours  luckily I'm a good healer and hopefully will be back in the saddle soon
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We may have to get some bubble wrap for you too....lol,,


I'm dealing with thrush in the gelding I just got this weekend and had the farrier out yesterday to take care of unfortunate neglected feet.

You said his hooves grow fairly fast so I would also like to see what the post trim pics look like and if they resemble what they normally look like after a trim so the experts can give an informed opinion in the knowledge and choices of your current farrier.


Hope you both heal quickly and long term before the next incident.


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

Thanks everyone and yes I did have a bad farrier which is why I was trying to find a new one and why her feet were overdue. She really was only a few weeks overdue but I got taken advantage of. I tried to get pics today but not so easy by yourself with a bad leg.

Update: got a new farrier out, its not as bad as it looks and now that she is properly trimmed there is a frog  Her foot looks completely normal now  still some thrush but it should clear up better now that she doesn't have so much room for the mud to build up in. Her frog had some flaps and were rough which also trapped the thrush and mud. Now that she is all cleaned up everything is fine and back to normal.

Lesson learned: don't trust a professional just cause they are a "professional" and learn enough about the topic to be able to tell if said professional really knows what they are doing. I didn't know anything about feet but I researched as much as I could and know better for next time. Just sucks I learned the hard way.

But glad to report all is good, just a tiny bit of thrush left 
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## Roadyy (Feb 9, 2013)

I wanted to like your last post twice,,but darn it, it won't let me!!! Glad to hear the great news....


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## Cacowgirl (Feb 19, 2011)

Glad that the horse got trimmed & you are happy w/the results. You know a lot more now,too.


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

Thanks Everyone  I appreciate the help and the support  You guys rock!!
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## Trinity3205 (Dec 21, 2010)

Glad to hear it. Hope he got rid of those crazy bars! Sounds like it.


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## Glenknock (Feb 27, 2013)

Delighted you got sorted x


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## Kendall (Apr 2, 2013)

countrylove said:


> All we can do it keep it dry and clean...
> Its obviously sore cause she doesn't want it messed with but she isn't limping or favoring it. Sorry about the pics. It was the best I could get.
> 
> Treatment plan: clean daily with bleach solution in a spray bottle, pick hooves twice a day to keep mud out, treat daily with thrush buster and wait and watch...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'd take out the thrush buster as it can kill the healthy bacteria and tissue I'd stick with straight bleach or half water and half bleach


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