# Is this humane?



## horsecrazy8 (Oct 30, 2013)

When my trainer euthanizes her horses, she uses a captive bolt gun, she draws an X an from ears to eyes, and puts it in the middle, and shoots in. She said this is more humane than the euthanasia shot, is this true, or should I report her for making horses suffer?

Show me proof that it really is humane.


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## Yooper (Oct 12, 2013)

The American Veterinary Medical Association approves the use of a captive bolt in order to euthanize horses, ruminants, and swine. Here is a PDF of the AMVA Guidelines for Euthanasia. Look to page 35 for details on the captive bolt, under the physical methods of euthanasia. 

So your trainer is not being inhumane. A properly applied hit from a captive bolt produces immediate unconsciousness. It might actually be a faster kill than an injection of Potassium chloride solution. And it doesn't require a veterinarian.


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

Sometimes when a horse is euthanized, they fight it. We had an old horse, who for quality of life reasons, we had put to sleep. He had to be given ace, he fought through that, and fought through the euthanasia shot. He would fall down, and try to get up, while struggling to breathe. It's not pretty. 
While a gunshot seems more brutal, if it's done correctly it's honestly quicker and in a way more humane
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

It's quicker. When done properly, the horse is dead before they hit the ground. Euthanasia can happen just as fast but it doesn't always. Even if it's done flawlessly there's always a chance that the chain of events won't be as fluid.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I have owned horses for many years - before the euthanasia injection was in use - so have had to have horses put down by the bolt method and by bullet. It was always done by an experienced person, death was instant and the horse had no idea what was happening.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

It's much more humane than waiting for chemicals to take effect. People think it's brutal because it's more traumatic for the humans to witness.

Think of it this way; if you were in horrible pain with no hope of recovering, would you rather die pretty much instantaneously or wait while the chemicals took effect, maybe needing several more injections while you were thrashing around in agony? 

I know which one I'd choose, and it wouldn't be the juice.


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## horsecrazy8 (Oct 30, 2013)

I certainly hope its humane, because if it is I might choose it for my horse when his time comes.


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## horsecrazy8 (Oct 30, 2013)

*horses*

I just don't want horses to suffer.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Nobody who cares about them wants them to suffer, and it sounds like your trainer truly cares for her animals.

The next horse I put down will be by bullet.


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## horsecrazy8 (Oct 30, 2013)

Really. Than how come they invented euthanasia fluid if shooting was so humane?


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## horsecrazy8 (Oct 30, 2013)

I really love my horses and I don't want to make them suffer.


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## MaximasMommy (Sep 21, 2013)

As someone who worked in an animal shelter, I can say with complete confidence that a well aimed physical force bolt is much more humane than using chemicals. I've been in a room with a dog who is still suffering and WILL NOT DIE after three syringes full of blue juice. When my chinchilla's time came and it needed to be put down, I did it myself with a hammer. It was instant, the chinchilla was under no stress, it was just snuggled in a towel with mommy. If I had taken it to a vet, it would have been confused and scared because of the strange surroundings, and they would have physically held its head in a cone while it suffocated to death. 

Of course I'm not saying that using chemicals to end an animal's life is inhumane, I've seen it work thousands of time in a peaceful and instant manner, I'm just saying that when you aim it right it is going to work, no question, as opposed to the chemicals maybe not being just right and causing a delay.


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## Shropshirerosie (Jan 24, 2012)

OP, the euthanasia injection wasn't invented as a 'solution' to the bolt in the head. Lethal chemicals have been around for many years, and veterinary science has developed ways to use them.

My guess as to why more animals are euth'd with the injection rather than the bolt gun is that owners are generally way more squeamish and think - as you do - that because they can't 'see the death happening' then maybe it doesn't hurt.

I have had one horse put down using lethal injection. My vet was kind as kind could be, he did his best but the truth is this.

My horse was scared of vets and scared of needles. His adrenaline was through the roof and so he had to be sedated before the vet could get the lethal shot in. It was not a calm and peaceful last 15 minutes of his life.

Next time, I will without hesitation have my horse put down with the bolt in the head. There will be a next time - owning animals includes that responsibility - and I want fast, fear-free, and painless. If I have the ability and knowledge to do it myself, as your trainer does - all the better. I want my horses seeing the face that they trust and feel comfortable with, not an unknown face.


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

This is the age old question it seems. I've seen numerous euthanasia of both types and am not at all squeamish of either method. Anyway can be cruel if it's preformed incorrectly or if something happens accidentally (like a horse moving when a gun discharges, that was unpleasant; or a vein missed in injection). So far I've been lucky that in most of the animals the lethal injection went smoothly and at my home (my vets will not do euthanasia's in their office but come to your house). Personally I don't find injections to be any more pleasant than shooting. You still see the death (I would even go as far to say sometimes even more so than in shooting), the final moments and if things go wrong they go wrong fast. 

We did have one old horse that was put to sleep with by injection and he fought it. He walked down the passage way to where we had his 'girlfriend' loose and he lay down next to her. It was sad but at the same time he seemed to go more peacefully by waiting it out, and dying by her side. 

In the end we really can't say which is humane or inhumane because let's face it - no one has personally experienced the different ways to be put to sleep and survived to talk, right? For me, either way it comes down to 'was I there with the animal' and was it as painless/stress free as I could possibly make it? I've had a couple who were dying that I've brought home and let them spend their last few hours with the family and go peacefully in their sleep while I hold them, I've had some done by injection, and some that were shot. The main thing I think is that it's as painless as it can possibly be.


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## Surprise 623 (Jun 17, 2010)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

horsecrazy8 said:


> Really. Than how come they invented euthanasia fluid if shooting was so humane?


Nobody 'invented' euthanasia drugs. They're the same drugs used for sedation, just given as a massive overdose to kill the animal instead of knocking it out temporarily.

As has already been told to you numerous times by different people, shooting IS humane when done correctly. It just _looks_ barbaric, which is why squeamish owners prefer the animal be given a drug overdose instead of being shot.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I think that euthanasia via chemicals became the more popular option simply because it is cleaner/is less harsh to witness and administer. 

I have never euthanized a horse. When the time comes for my boy... I don't know what route I will take. That said, shooting is most certainly not inhumane.

EDIT-If done properly!


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## CheyRider (Nov 3, 2013)

Do you use a chemical that makes the horse suffocate in the US?
I'm asking because in Germany, there are two ways to euthanize a horse with chemicals. Option 1 used to be the norm and involves a shot that would paralyze the muscles, making the horse suffocate. They are given a narcotic first to make them sleep (doesn't always work from what I read).
Option 2 is what I would use. It's basically an overdose of a narcotic, so they go to sleep just like for a surgery and then they just don't wake up any more. I think it's more expensive to do it this way, but as humane as it can get. I'd prefer to have a horse shot rather than use Option 1, it must be horrible trying to breathe but not being able to, and who knows how aware they are of what's happening even when the narcotic works and they do sleep through it.


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

CheyRider here in the US we use a shot of morphine first which is given in excess, then they use phenobarbital or other such chemicals in lethal dosages. For large animals it's mostly the same process but with different chemicals. My understanding and how my vets/professors described it was that the sedative is given in a lethal amount to relax the muscles and put the animal to sleep or near sleep, and then the more lethal chemical is given to cause cardiac arrest. I've heard of your option 1 being used but I think it's grown out of favor over here.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

horsecrazy8 said:


> Really. Than how come they invented euthanasia fluid if shooting was so humane?


Many people don't have a gun, or know where to shoot one. And I know of no one that has a captive bolt gun for that matter.

Your trainer is doing the right thing.

Also the current push to make it illegal for a vet to carry the meds to put an animal down, may well make it to where owners and handlers HAVE to learn how to shoot one to kill it.


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

horsecrazy8 said:


> Really. Than how come they invented euthanasia fluid if shooting was so humane?


 
because it is less shocking for humans and appears to be a "gentle" death sometimes.


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

Palomine said:


> Many people don't have a gun, or know where to shoot one. And I know of no one that has a captive bolt gun for that matter.
> 
> Your trainer is doing the right thing.
> 
> Also the current push to make it illegal for a vet to carry the meds to put an animal down, may well make it to where owners and handlers HAVE to learn how to shoot one to kill it.


In the UK no-one shoots their own horses, (well no-one I have ever heard of), it is always carried out by a professional horse slaughterer (knackerman) or the vet with (but I have only used a vet for lethal injection not captive bolt death). Here many hunts will pts for people as well.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

CheyRider said:


> Do you use a chemical that makes the horse suffocate in the US?
> I'm asking because in Germany, there are two ways to euthanize a horse with chemicals. Option 1 used to be the norm and involves a shot that would paralyze the muscles, making the horse suffocate. They are given a narcotic first to make them sleep (doesn't always work from what I read).
> Option 2 is what I would use. It's basically an overdose of a narcotic, so they go to sleep just like for a surgery and then they just don't wake up any more. I think it's more expensive to do it this way, but as humane as it can get. I'd prefer to have a horse shot rather than use Option 1, it must be horrible trying to breathe but not being able to, and who knows how aware they are of what's happening even when the narcotic works and they do sleep through it.


 
CheyRider, are you sure??

I have NEVER heard of the suffocation method, nor seen it practised. Nor do I know any vet that would allow a horse to "suffocate" through paralysis of the muscles.

If possible, I would take my horse to the knacker's yard.

You can't always time, or expect what is going to happen. If a horse breaks its leg hacking out, or jumping a XCountry course, what ever is at hand.

If a horse goes down in the field, and the vet is on hand? (we were fortunate that day) then sure.

But I have seen a planned euth.. NOT pretty. More than one, to be honest. One in particular sticks in my mind and I wouldn't wish that on any creature, or owner.


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## CheyRider (Nov 3, 2013)

Duffy Duck, the chemical is called T 61, it paralyzes the muscles, but not the brain. it is supposed to be used only on a sedated (sleeping) animal in order to avoid conscious suffocation. However, sometimes the sedation doesn't work that well, or the vet doesn't wait until the sedation actually works. You can't really tell how much the animal suffers once the injection is given since the horse can't move any more. But if it's not asleep, oh my, how horrible. There is plenty of advice on the internet about it, many people think it's perfectly alright to use still when used properly, but I wouldn't risk it. Eutha 77 or similar chemicals, on the other hand, are the same ones used to sedate a horse for surgery. Horse falls asleep, is given more of the chemical until dead. Vets often prefer T 61 because it's much cheaper.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Thanks for the info Chey.. You learn something new every day. Anyone who reads that and still thinks chemical euthing is more humane than a bullet needs their head put on straight


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

^I still think it's mostly the image and reputation guns/bullets have that make people shy away from them.


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## dressagebelle (May 13, 2009)

While I personally would not be able to look my horse in the eye and shoot him/her with either a captive bolt gun, or any other gun, I do think that it is a humane way to do it if done right. I've always done euth by vet because that's the option we have in a city, but if we ever get land, I want to make sure that I know someone close by who can and will use a gun instead. Especially being out there, the poor horse is in agony sometimes until the vet can get out, and that's not fair to the animal. Less messy, sometimes, but not more humane. I agree that if I were hurt to the point where the only option is euth, I'd want to be shot instead of waiting for the authorities to get there to give me a shot, then have to wait even more time for it to take effect. With any type of euth, there is always a slight risk of something going wrong, I don't think there's any way to get around that, but at least her horses aren't suffering, and she's not paying out the butt to put them down.


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## horsecrazy8 (Oct 30, 2013)

NOTE: MY trainer loves her horses very much, I have only heard of her doing this not actually seen it she just told me how she did it. 

The reasons she did it was because her one old school horse went down in pasture and he was suffering, she didn't want to wait for the vet to come.

The other reason was, she had this cute little bay mare who was about nine years old, she came down with a horrible case of colic and it was either have the vet euthanize her and stress her out or die in mommy's arms, she chose captive bolt. 

She is a very nice women, she just happens to use a less common method.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Well then, why did you even bother _asking_ if it were cruel and having a snit fit over wanting to report her to someone, if you supposedly knew all of that already? 

Plus, horses don't have 'mommies', they have *owners*.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

^^^^

Ditto that.
You either believe your trainer loves her animals and would do the best she could or...you don't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Methinks someone was hoping to start a train wreck, and is backpedaling now that everyone else is in agreement that euthing by bullet or captive bolt is humane.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

horsecrazy8 said:


> NOTE: MY trainer loves her horses very much, I have only heard of her doing this not actually seen it she just told me how she did it.
> 
> The reasons she did it was because her one old school horse went down in pasture and he was suffering, she didn't want to wait for the vet to come.
> 
> ...



Whut did I just read?

I thought we were all supposed to start a movement against your trainers cruelty?

Horses don't have the emotions that humans do. They don't form the attachments humans do. 

I'll put it simple for you as you're making it all clear as mud..

If your trainer knows how to shoot, it's not cruel

If your trainer doesn't know how to shoot.. Could be cruel and darn messy.

If your vet knows what he's doing, it's slow but not entirely cruel depending on how much jab they give.

If your vet sends a trainee that doesn't know what they're doing, it's cruel.

Clear for you?


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## PixiTrix (Sep 11, 2013)

I don't know about the bolt gun but my father is a veterinarian and still he encourages shooting a horse as more humane than a euthanasia shot. That is how he choses to put down his personal horses as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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