# Full Cheek Snaffle?



## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

I never really knew why my mare was in a full cheek, but she works fine in it.
My question is: I know the full cheek can have an attachment to the bridle, keeping the bit upright in place. What is the purpose of that? My mare doesn't have hers like that, so then should I put her in a regular D ring? I'm new to learning the importance of tack, and I just want my ponies to be comfy.
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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Bit holders are inexpensive and they're necessary if you're using a full cheek bit, so the points of the bit don't stab your horse in the face.

JJ goes best in a low port, jointed, full cheek. You can bet your boots I bought the bit holders.


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## aspin231 (Mar 20, 2010)

I've also heard then called bit keepers instead of bit holders.
Less than $5 a pair at the local tack shops, go splurge.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> JJ goes best in a low port, jointed, full cheek. You can bet your boots I bought the bit holders.


Sorry if this is a small derail, but SR is this what you use??










I bought this from another poster on here and I tried it on Bert today and she seems to be very happy in it, cross fingers and hope that it works for her. 

So I should go find some bit keepers maybe?


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## DejaVu (Jul 6, 2011)

Some keeps are always good on a full cheek.

They keep the sides in place, and keep the bit from sliding and rotating out of place, which easily happes with full cheeks.
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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

Thanks! Next time I'm in town ill look for some!
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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Full Cheeks were designed to sit in the horses mouth in a particular way, and that is achieved with the use of the keepers. 

Always use a Full Cheek with the keepers to ensure your bit is sitting in your horses mouth correctly.


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## gigem88 (May 10, 2011)

I use the full cheek snaffle, too but without keepers. Never had a problem with the bit sitting incorrectly in my geldings mouth.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Correct Placement in Mouth:










Incorrect Placement in Mouth:










I don't think "placement" is the correct word - but Angle is. The bit was designed to sit in the horses mouth. With the keepers, the bit rests in the mouth at the angle it was designed to sit. 

I use keepers, because I want the bit to be placed properly in my horses mouth as it is designed to rest.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

I asked this question in another thread, and still have not received a satisfactory answer, so here goes again:

_What do you mean by "rotated correctly in the mouth?" I saw in the opening post that you mentioned the correct orientation of the mouthpiece, but it seems to me that tilting it back with a keeper would actually negatively affect the position of the joint. Of the full cheek snaffles I've seen (which, admittedly, is only a handful), the mouthpiece is always perpendicular to the cheeks, just like in an eggbutt or D-ring. You don't rotate those for everyday use....and if you rotate the full cheek using keepers, aren't you going to bring the joint down so that it breaks over the tongue rather than straight back? It seems that this would also influence the ability to do any sort of lateral reining, as, unless your horse is carrying a perfectly vertical headset, you'll be pulling across the joint rather than breaking it.... (this all makes sense in the picture in my head, but I'm afraid it's not coming out in words very clearly)

The safety thing I understand, so I always try to be hyper-aware when using my keeper-less full cheek. 

_Read more: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-tac...-english-type-bits-36522/page4/#ixzz1UmZ0a8S9


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I guess I don't really understand either. I get the safety aspect of the whole thing to keep them from getting hung up on something, but the orientation of the mouthpiece in that second picture seems no different to me than that of your typical D-ring, Eggbutt, or loose ring.





Now, I'm not trying to be snooty or anything, I'm just trying to understand because I honestly don't see the difference between the orientation of the mouth on these 3 bits and the one posted above with no keepers or why these 3 are okay but that one isn't.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Exactly. If one needs keepers to "orient the mouthpiece correctly", they all need keepers.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

The way I see it is that horses like different things. The keepers keep the bit still in the mouth in a certain position - much like the baucher/hanging cheek snaffle. Some horses prefer a stiller bit. The rotation in the mouth also isn't necessarily better/worse - just different, another option for horses who may need one. 

The safety aspect is separate - to stop the cheeks getting caught on anything.
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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

> When the Dr Bristol was invented, it was only offered in a full cheek, because the uniqueness of the bit came from the angle of the center plate. It was intended to lie at a 45* angle to the tongue, so it would dig into the tongue when pressure was applied to the reins.


The bit was intended to sit in the horses mouth in a particular position - that is why you use the keepers. We now see the Full Cheek mainly in the single jointed mouthpiece. If the keepers are not used, that single joint puts pressure on the tongue *as any single jointed mouthpiece does*. 

Also, the mouthpiece of the Fullcheek with the keepers, is positioned in a more "up" position and keeps the bit more stable and solidified in the horses mouth.

So in sense, the keepers keep the bit angled correctly in the horses mouth, and keeps the bit stabalized/fixed, and balanced. 

The Full Cheek, without the keepers, will act more like a D Ring or an eggbutt - no stability, no keeping the bit fixed/balanced in the horses mouth. If you are going to use a full cheek without the keepers, you may as well use the D Ring or the Eggbutt.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Wild spot and MI have it right. That is what makes a full cheek different, not just the cheek pieces. The bit keepers stabilize the bit and hold it at a consistent angle. The safety reasons are very valid. I have seen the cheeks of a full cheek get tangled in a number of things causing bad wrecks. I have been stabbed by a student's unkept bit when her horse tried to rub on me. OUCH!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Okay, so basically it's not so much that the lay of the mouth is _wrong_, it's just a different type of bit that's designed to be used in a particular way to give a different action and feel.


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## gigem88 (May 10, 2011)

I've had trainers tell me that using keepers puts a little pressure on the poll in order to get a good head set.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

gigem88 said:


> I've had trainers tell me that using keepers puts a little pressure on the poll in order to get a good head set.


 
How would that work? I used a full cheek with & without keepers, made no difference that I noticed other than the fact that it keep things from getting caught up on it.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

gigem88 said:


> I've had trainers tell me that using keepers puts a little pressure on the poll in order to get a good head set.


 
The keepers do not create any sort of leverage. This is incorrect and false. And that is incorrect riding if you use anything to get some sort of "good headset".


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

And Bouchers provide poll pressure, too.... :roll:


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Exactly, Smrobs. 

Ugh Bubba! So many people think that! It's simple mechanics/levers!!! Drives me mad 
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## reiningfan (Jan 7, 2008)

This is a little *******, but until I found a tack shop that carried bit keepers, I used a piece of string to make my own bit keepers for my Appaloosa mare, Fancy. Bale string, actually. Looked crappy, but it worked.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

reiningfan said:


> This is a little *******, but until I found a tack shop that carried bit keepers, I used a piece of string to make my own bit keepers for my Appaloosa mare, Fancy. Bale string, actually. Looked crappy, but it worked.


Yep! Back in Pony Club, I remember loosing one of my keepers when I was swapping bits from my dressage bit to my XC bit - I used a rubber band that you use for braiding manes - did the job.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

reiningfan said:


> This is a little *******, but until I found a tack shop that carried bit keepers, I used a piece of string to make my own bit keepers for my Appaloosa mare, Fancy. Bale string, actually. Looked crappy, but it worked.



Lol, very ingenious, where did you find your bit keepers?

I wonder if zip ties will work??


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

No, bailing twine is the way to go. Most days, I put out the hay and use the twine for a belt.
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## Day Mares (Jul 16, 2011)

Tomorrow I'm fashioning a pair of bit keepers for Piper's bit. Thanks Guys for another useful thread.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

ilovemyPhillip said:


> .
> My question is: I know the full cheek can have an attachment to the bridle, keeping the bit upright in place. What is the purpose of that?


You really answered your own question before you asked it.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Golden Horse said:


> Sorry if this is a small derail, but SR is this what you use??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Something similar to that Golden but more like this, except the port is jointed on either side, and not fixed:


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

The Full cheek is NOT supposed to be used with keepers. This is why the cheeks are shorter than the Fulmer. It's purpose is to stop the horse from being able to slide the bit through its mouth. Because of the short length they do dig into the side of the face often trapping part of the cheek between the top teeth and the bit cheek.

A FULMER is however supposed to have the keepers. The bit is shaped at the top to prevent the cheeks from digging in and to keep the keepers from sliding off. They keep the bit very static and the loose rings give a finer tuning then with a Full Cheek. The Spanish Riding school use the Fulmer at all stages of training from the young horse to Advanced work In-hand.


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## reiningfan (Jan 7, 2008)

It is my understanding that Dr Bristol full cheek snaffles are designed specifically to be used with keepers, due to the way they are angled in the mouth. Without the keepers, they lose a lot of their proper action.
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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

No - the Dr Bristol needs the mouthpiece to drop in the mouth to have the plate at the correct angle. If you fix the mouthpiece you alter the angle of the plate and make the bit extremely severe.


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## reiningfan (Jan 7, 2008)

Then mine must be much different, because the plate lays flat on my mare's tongue when the keepers are on and angles when they are not and the bit moves.
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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

Are you able to put up a picture of the bit - hold bridle up so that I can see the plate. PLease


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## reiningfan (Jan 7, 2008)

I've got it loaned out at the moment. My ex had it custom made years ago. It was one of the few things I actually wanted to get in the split. Lol 
I will look to see if I've got any pictures of it once I get home from work in the morning though.
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## reiningfan (Jan 7, 2008)

Now that you've mentioned it, I am wondering whether most Dr Bristols are made so that they don't sit flat when the keepers are on. I just bought one and am waiting for it to arrive. Hopefully it is made the way I am thinking it ought to be. 
I shall have to google images when I get the opportunity.
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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Take your pick....


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## reiningfan (Jan 7, 2008)

Thanks Bubba. Looking for images on my phone is a pain in the behind. That's saved me some effort.
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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

Thanks Bubba13 - 
Top one used with keepers - OUCH, plate edge directly on the tongue and with a slow twist as well! Lower one more like the correct angle for a French Link but with a longer plate.


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