# Dorsal Stripes on Red Horses



## LovesMyDunnBoy (Aug 11, 2011)

He may very well be a red dunn! My colt didn't have and leg barring/darkening but he was a red dunn without a doubt. Is the underside of his tail lighter than the top?
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## LovesMyDunnBoy (Aug 11, 2011)

As in the part that lays on his butt, compared to what didn't lol, not the top as in his tail bone.
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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

our old red dun mare, had the dorsal stripe only. I also had a yellow dun and her leg marks only showed when she was wet.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

The dorsal sounds seasonal so it's most likely countershading. Dun dorsals are crisp and noticeable. Countershading is smudgey and may fade in and out. Also dun is a dilution meaning the coat WILL be diluted usually to a peachy red on sorrels/chestnuts. Dun dorsals are also not seasonal they are on the coat year around.
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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Here I got some visuals for you 

Sorrel mare with countershading. Notice the coat is undiluted and the lack of crispness of the "dorsal". The edges sort of blend into the coat. I also know this mare personally she has no dun parents. Dun is a simple dominant meaning one parent must carry the gene to pass it, it cannot skip generations. 


















Here some dun dorsals dorsals they have that drawn on with a sharpe look and notice the diluted coat.

















Dun dorsals can be light colored but they are still very noticeable. My dunskin's dorsal. 
















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## LovesMyDunnBoy (Aug 11, 2011)

I think we need pictures! I wouldn't say all dunn horses are noticeably diluted, especially red dunns. I have seen a red dun who was so dark I thought she was sorrel. She's 100% red dunn, she had a grulla filly with a black sire.

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This is Marie, and you can see her filly in the background. Her legs are slightly darker, but I could mistake her for a sorrel.
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On the other side of that, my colt was very light to the point my neighbor thought he was a pally. 

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These are ugly baby pictures of Lakota, he's much cuter now! He did have a very crisp, obvious dorsal stripe aslo. 

I think pictures would help lots! Lol, also I'm sorry if the links don't work!
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## 2BigReds (Oct 7, 2011)

Gosh darnit, it's sideways! >_<' But anyway, to clarify a few things:

LMDB, actually now that I look, his tail does seem to be darker at the top (along the line of the stripe) than around the sides. Might just be!

PBR, His stripe is quite noticeable _especially_ in the summer, was what I meant. It is still there in the winter, just slightly less clear when the fuzzies come in. 

Thanks for the input, everyone! I may have him color tested someday just for funzies, but here's a photo and some pedigree info: Olenas Smokin Sox Quarter Horse

I know all breed pedigree is not always 100% accurate, but it at least gives you his bloodlines. Also just curious, his papers list him as sorrel... If he did happen to be a red dun would that mean his papers were wrong? Or does AQHA not recognize color that way? Not that it matters, really, it's just all very interesting!


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## LovesMyDunnBoy (Aug 11, 2011)

Now that I see pictures, I'm thinking sorrel with countershading. He didn't have a dunn parent either (ch stands for chestnut?) I'm not familiar with the site really lol! Without a dunn parent, he couldn't be dunn!  looks like you've got a plain ole' sorrel my friend!
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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Definitely not dun. Dun doesn't just add a dorsal stripe - it is a dilution gene, which means that it has some diluting effect on the coat of the horse. Usually a dun horse is visibly different to a non-dun horse - so a red dun is visibly different to a chestnut/sorrel. The main part of the coat is usually lighter, and gets a different hue to it - some describe it as dusty, I prefer to call it a "flat" hue. The dun gene actually changes the way the pigment forms in the hair shaft, restricting it to one side, and this is why it looks lighter. 

Additionally, your horse has no other "dun factor" markings. While he does have a prominent dorsal, it is caused by counter shading. It is uncommon for a dorsal that is not caused by dun to be so crisp, but not incredibly rare. 

Another point is that since both his parents are chestnut, there is no way he could possibly be dun anyway. Dun is a dominant gene, which means that the horse must express the gene if they have a dun gene. This means it can't "skip generations" or anything like that.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Definitely without a doubt your horse is not dun. And like I said dorsals aren't seasonal and your horses coat is not diluted. 

And lovemydunboy I could tell all those horses where dun just by their tone. Dun has such a specific tone to it kinda peachy/apricot matte. Even on dark tones its still noticeable even on extremely dark grulla's. The dunalino is kinda hard to tell but those weren't the best pics and dunalino's can be kinda tricky to identify. Even on my Dunskin you can see the peachy tone your dunalino has it too I bet even though it has cream as well.
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## AQHSam (Nov 23, 2011)

My red dun shimmers with gold after a bath. You would never confuse his coloring as sorrel. After a good washing or brushing, the hair glistens almost golden over red.


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## 2BigReds (Oct 7, 2011)

Yeah, as I was reading into it more I think y'all are right. Not dun, but countershading definitely. Now another question, what gene causes that?
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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

This is horse isn't a dun - if he were there would be dorsal stripes on his back legs.


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

The dun shimmer- like this? Dun dilution is just a different color all together than sorrel.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

amberly said:


> This is horse isn't a dun - if he were there would be dorsal stripes on his back legs.


Dorsal stripes are not on the legs I think your talking about leg baring or tiger stripes which are not on all duns the only required dun characteristic is the dorsal stripe on the back.
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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

From what I understand, a countershading dorsal stripe is a side effect of the sooty gene that appears on some horses. Sooty can cause a horse to have markings that mimic dun including the dorsal stripe, shoulder barring, and even sometimes leg barring. But, with sooty, these markings are often much less defined.

For example, this mare is a sooty bay (or maybe a sooty brown). I know for certain that there is no dun anywhere in her lineage.
(sorry for the crappy pictures, they're the best I've got to show her coloring)


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## AQHSam (Nov 23, 2011)

Sharpie said:


> The dun shimmer- like this? Dun dilution is just a different color all together than sorrel.


Yes. But Sam is definitely a red head. I agree about the coloring. After owning a red dun I don't know if I could find any other coloring as pleasing to me.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

2BigReds said:


> Yeah, as I was reading into it more I think y'all are right. Not dun, but countershading definitely. Now another question, what gene causes that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dorsal stripes, whether due to dun factor or "counter shading", are primitive markings present in the vast majority of animals in one form or another. They are vestiges of the "dark on top, light on bottom" coloration that animals evolved in the sea for protection against predators, with the light underneath blending with the sky when viewed from underneath and the dark dorsal area blending in with the darker sea depth when viewed from above. The protective coloration was kept when animals evolved into land creatures, and many animal species still carry a vestige of that pattern to some degree. Man has bred out most of the primitive markings in horses, but dorsals and other primitive marking are more pronounced in duns because they carry a primitive marking gene...


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## 2BigReds (Oct 7, 2011)

Faceman said:


> Dorsal stripes, whether due to dun factor or "counter shading", are primitive markings present in the vast majority of animals in one form or another. They are vestiges of the "dark on top, light on bottom" coloration that animals evolved in the sea for protection against predators, with the light underneath blending with the sky when viewed from underneath and the dark dorsal area blending in with the darker sea depth when viewed from above. The protective coloration was kept when animals evolved into land creatures, and many animal species still carry a vestige of that pattern to some degree. Man has bred out most of the primitive markings in horses, but dorsals and other primitive marking are more pronounced in duns because they carry a primitive marking gene...


That actually makes a lot of sense! Nature is friggin cool. Thanks for sharing that!


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