# Okay, I think I should re-phrase this!



## dreamrideredc (Apr 16, 2009)

Hi everyone!

Alright, so in a post I made yesterday ("Ah, Horses WILL be Horses") I think I explained my question badly. I'm thinking I added a bunch of additional information. Sooo, lets revamp this question, shall we?

So, I went on a trail ride this weekend. We have been on trail rides before, 9 out of 10 times being calm, and we haven't been on one in a month or so, plus, we were in a new place this weekend.

Some Backround: My horse prefers the front. When he gets behind, he panics and feels like he is getting left behind. What he will do is just speed walk to the front, annoying, but nothing serious. When I try to stop him (this is just on the trail when he panics) he shakes his head and pulls, and feels like I am going to make him be left.

Towards the end of the trail, when the opening of the woods was in sight, some of the horses began to get excited and we riders let them out some into a trot. I pulled my boy to the side, and attempted to let others pass. (the horses were being woosies and wouldn't go through the water) Well, my horse began to feel left behind and swerved in front of the other horse. When I tried to stop him, he pranced in place and braced against the bit. Not wanting to back into other horses, I let him walk under the branch (wow that branch was lower than we thought, i had to do the limbo in the saddle!)

As far as water phobia, we are going to do some puddle work! *throws on rain boots*

My question is: *Ahem* If my horse feels more confortable in front, should I just let him be in front? If he wants to play "Follow the Leader" maybe I should just let him have some fun, afterall, we work hard in the arena and this is supposed to fun and relaxing. Or, do you think I should make him be in back? Also, how can I get him to not cut horses off? I'm really only concerned about him getting over-excited and cutting other horses off.

Please don't say anything about him being dangerous, I am with skilled riders and my trainer, and my horse is not the "wild, I'm a spaz" type by any means. He very well could have just been excited due to the new place, not being out in a while, and the barn in sight; who know?!

I hope this re-phrasing helped some, if not, let me know! Sorry for the threads on the same topic! 
Thanks! =]


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## BaliDoll (Sep 21, 2009)

I, personally, let my horse be where he wants to be in the line on a trail ride- provided that- he is going the pace I want and not acting like a nut case (ie: on the way home if he's prancing at the front, I'll MAKE HIM go to the back and take his sweeeeet time going home). I think it's a natural thing for some horses to be "leaders" and some be "followers", they will all have their own preference of where they like to be... just like if they were in a pasture they would have a pecking order, or in the wild, you know? It's a personality thing.
As long as the horse isn't being dangerous, he can choose where he likes to be, and if he is calm when you get him where he wants to be in the line, then he's fine just doing that. In my opinion, a horse who fights to get in front and then settles down once he is there, is FAR better than a horse who wants to race home. It's not a bad quality in a trail horse to want to be a leader... it actually shows he's not a scardey pony 

That being said, always know the other peoples horses and where they like to be. If your horse wants to be in the lead make that clear with everyone so they can decide if their horse is going to fight for it and make it miserable for everyone...

That's my two cents...


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## dreamrideredc (Apr 16, 2009)

Thank for your reply!

I think I will just let him be in front. I'll make sure he chills out once he is there, too. Oh, and he has no reason to push if he's alreay there! :wink: Sometimes I think we try to be a little to controlling of our horse, some things really aren't that big of a deal. Granted, sometimes it is necessary to restrict, but little things, who really cares? 

I remember this one time my friend beat her horse until he BACKED out of the trailer. He wanted to just turn around, but she made sure he didn't. Of course, she rewarded him like crazy after, but it took a good 30-45 minutes of the horse freaking out and sweating nervously. At the moment, I really don't see how turning around can be dangerous if there is room, but I'm sure there is a way. Everything is potentially dangerous! :roll: LOL!


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

I read an article about this some time ago. Apparently horses who have never been together before will determine the new herd hierarchy very quickly once they're put together. It was suggested that they know where they're supposed to be in relation to the other horses, and if we try to do otherwise as riders, we're just getting in the way. My horse was a full time follower when he was younger. We were always in the back. Now that he's a little older, I'm finding he'll change it up depending on what other horses he's out with. If it's a young horse, or a very old one, he takes the lead. It's very interesting stuff. 

Bottom line on my 2 cents, let him be where he wants to be. It's no skin off your nose and trail riding's supposed to be fun.


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## sillybunny11486 (Oct 2, 2009)

i always let my mare be were she wants on the trail, otherwise its an unpleasant ride for use and the horse horses shes trying to nudge out of the way. even when a rider tries to take the lead she makes it known she wants it lol.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

OK, but what happens when you have two (or more) horses who each want to be in front? Or is that how horse racing was invented?


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

I think its fine to let the horses set into the natural order of them. In each pack there will be a dominant horse, and ones that a less so. 

Saying that I do not feel that anyone should ride out if they do not have full control of their horse. Ie. If you can't control him ALL the time you shouldn't ride out until you can. If you are doing "training" out on a trail ride go with one experienced person on an experienced and trained horse, but don't put others at risk because you can't control your horse all the time. A horse or rider can easily be hurt by a kick. It doesn't matter how calm your horse is when you are with your trainer or anything, out there he isn't. 

My advice would be circles. If he isn't listening pull him in a circle. Teach the one rein stop and make him stop, refuse to let him go one more step. Do not give in sometimes, do not let him just walk forward, if you demand that he stands still then you make him stand still.


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## WelcomeStranger28 (Oct 21, 2009)

well usually if my boy wants to prance and be a dip **** then i let him but if it gets outof control i get off and walk untill he settles. And when he wants to be infront i don't usually let him coz he will see the open spaces and phyc the other horses out!!


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## Mingiz (Jan 29, 2009)

My TWh was the same way when I got him 2 yrs ago. If the horses got to far ahead he would pitch a fit. If other horses took off he would want to do the same..I want to be able to put my horses anywhere in a group and not have to fight them..When my TWH would act up I started to circle him and then would ask him to walk on. If he acted up in a circle I went again. Let me tell ya half of my rides on him I was dizzy from so many circles. But in the long run it worked. I can now put him anywhere in a group..He still gets excited when the front horses move off, but he is very controllable and it surely makes for a better day of riding. I feel that if you have to let your horse be up front because he wants to he's getting away with things that will only make him worst...It may take a few months of working on it but in the long run you will have a better horse and a better ride.....


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## dreamrideredc (Apr 16, 2009)

Hi everyone! 
I read all of your posts and think the best thing to do is just let him be in front. He is never the leader type, so if he wants to play I will let him. That being said, if he continues to act up in the front, or anywhere for that matter, I will do circles (if I can depending on space) and ask my trainer what she thinks. I'm not concerned about getting injured because my trainer is with me and she would say something if it was getting serious.

Our idea of a trail ride is let the horses play and do what they want, (safely of course) because we are usually cooped up in the ring and want our horses to have a chance to get out and play.

Thanks everyone, if you have more advice feel free to share!


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## BaliDoll (Sep 21, 2009)

Exactly! Trail riding should be fun for you and your horsey, so as long as he's behaving himself up front, then let him be a leader!  

Have fun!!


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Hmmm. I didn't consider the two horses wanting to be up front part. Guess we can't really have them fighting it out while we're on them! I guess you and the other bossy horse's rider then have to make an executive decision and put up with the corresponding fits that result. Maybe switch off every so often?


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## dreamrideredc (Apr 16, 2009)

The only other horse that cares where they are wants to be in back, so I think we're covered! :wink: Thanks so much guys!


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## dee (Jul 30, 2009)

I had a horse that insisted on being in front all the time. It took months of little circles every time he tried to push his way to the front before he finally figured out that I was more stubborn than he was.

He didn't care if another horse was beside him - it was the ones in front that drove him nuts!


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## dreamrideredc (Apr 16, 2009)

To tell you the truth, I'm pretty surprised he wants to be in the front. In his pasture, he is basically bottom on the pecking order. He doesn't get many scratches or anything, but he does not defend himself. He does perfectly fine, but he is just like me; stay clear of trouble, don't ask for trouble, and when in trouble, spin on your heels and RUN! LOL! That is pretty much why I don't mind. Hey, if he wants to play tough guy, oh well, as long as he doesn't cause trouble! I'll just be lax on the trail rides and see how it goes


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

My view is this - I need to be sure I can be in control and safe at all times, in all situations. Front OR back. In your case, I would work on him until he learns to be calm at the back, and as soon as he is... He can go to the front as much as he likes! I don't care where they like to be - I DO care if where they don't like to be results in behaviour that may escalate to being dangerous.

So, basically, I always ensure my horses can ride anywhere in a group, and ocne I know that, I let them go wherever :] What if another person was riding him but didn't know the way/wasn't confident in front?

In regards to cutting off other horses... Big no-no! Does he move sideways off your leg? If so, simply yeild him back the other way, strongly. If a horse is getting toey at the back, I make it halt. I wait until they stand relaxed, then I let them walk on a loose rein. If they jog, I halt again, but I always let them walk off on a loose rein - Giving them a chance to do the right thing before they are corrected.


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## kiwigirl (Sep 30, 2009)

Lets say that you get the oppurtunity to do a wonderful horse trek with 70 other horses and riders. Out of that 70 there are probabably 15 horses that want to be in the front. As your horse is now would you consider doing such a ride? Or would you be concerned with how your horse would behave in such a circmstance? For me personnaly it is a no brainer, I want to be able to ride in different situations. What I don't want to be doing is saying "well I would love to do it but my horse won't behave" 

My point is that in the comfy situation that you are in now your horse is ok, but what if the situation changes or you want to do something different with other people? As your horse is now, would you trust it?


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## Kentucky (Aug 2, 2008)

wild_spot said:


> My view is this - I need to be sure I can be in control and safe at all times, in all situations. Front OR back. In your case, I would work on him until he learns to be calm at the back, and as soon as he is... He can go to the front as much as he likes! I don't care where they like to be - I DO care if where they don't like to be results in behaviour that may escalate to being dangerous.
> 
> So, basically, I always ensure my horses can ride anywhere in a group, and ocne I know that, I let them go wherever :] What if another person was riding him but didn't know the way/wasn't confident in front?
> 
> In regards to cutting off other horses... Big no-no! Does he move sideways off your leg? If so, simply yeild him back the other way, strongly. If a horse is getting toey at the back, I make it halt. I wait until they stand relaxed, then I let them walk on a loose rein. If they jog, I halt again, but I always let them walk off on a loose rein - Giving them a chance to do the right thing before they are corrected.


I agree 100% and on trails, I try to change up where we are on the trail when: front, back, or in the middle, I try to be in all points on the trail ride. It would get boring if I didn't.


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## dreamrideredc (Apr 16, 2009)

Thanks for the input guys! I actually solved the problem, sorry I should have updated this  We went out on the trail, and I think it was just a combination of him being excited and his first time out, because the next ones we did were very enjoyable and civilized. Guess we were just having one of those days


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