# Sitting a bouncy trot



## AceyGrace (Jan 21, 2014)

I got my first English ridden horse a few months back and I feel like my riding is coming on quite well 
The only problem is I can't sit my horse's bumpy English trot! Especially in an English saddle which gives me much less support than a western :/
We have worked on him bringing his head down and when he works in an outline properly I can just about manage. But he has a naturally high stepping trot which has clearly been encouraged for his English riding.
Does anyone have any tips to 1) make his trot more rideable to sit (smoother and less bouncy) and 2) help me with an English sitting trot?
Thanks!


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## ForeverSunRider (Jun 27, 2013)

I ride western for the most part. I wasn't aware that you *did* sit trots in English. I thought it was all posting 

In any case, what I find helpful when sitting a bouncy trot is to put all my weight in my butt and back in the saddle if that makes sense. Then I tense my legs against the stirrups (or irons in your case). It helps to hold me in place from bouncing too much (I think).

I also shift my weight from one side of my butt to the other in time with the horse's movement...if that makes sense. Also, it helps, at least with my horse, to play with his bit in his mouth a little because it distracts him from being too prancy and slows him down which also makes the gait easier to sit.


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## AceyGrace (Jan 21, 2014)

It is mostly posting  which I feel confident with now. But actually the sitting trot in an English saddle is quite an advanced skill and is a big part of dressage tests etc. You can't post in dressage at all :/
Obviously we aren't doing any dressage tests right now lol but I really want to improve my English riding enough to be able to do it seeing as I can obviously sit a western jog and it's just frustrating haha.
I definitely know what you mean about 'playing with the bit'. I give little half halts and this slows him down and puts him in an outline. Making his back rounder and not so jarring and hollow.
Like you say, I think I need to move my butt better with him... lol. Once I start bouncing it's so hard to stop and collect myself so I'll focus on moving with his back a bit more 
When you tense your legs against the stirrups do you mean shoving your heel down or like a forward motion so your foot comes forward a bit to take some of the bounce motion from the front legs??
Thanks for the advice!


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

You need to ride the walk without stirrups for a good hour. Then, your legs will be very tired and you will relax and sink into the saddle. THAT is what keeps you in the saddle at a "sitting" or slow trot. In English, the slow, collected trot is sat. I know many of you have grown up posting in a Western saddle, but, honestly, it is a RECENT phenomena.
If you standing in a bus on a rough road, you wouldn't be thrown around too much bc you would relax and use your legs like a spring. You do bounce the trot sitting it, but by relaxing you don't bounce as high and you settle back in the saddle after each bounce.


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## TessaMay (Jul 26, 2013)

No stirrup work will really help you. You need to learn how to relax your butt muscles and sit deep.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

I also say no stirrups. Relax your lower back, sit deep in the saddle, and imagine an imaginary weight pulling you deep into the saddle. Then practice, practice, practice. It takes a surprising level of fitness to sit a bouncy trot gracefully.


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## AceyGrace (Jan 21, 2014)

Thanks guys 
I've been doing a lot of no stirrup work recently which is what has made me realise how much I'm struggling haha! 
I know I do tense up, especially thinking that as soon as he trots I will be throw jarringly up in the air :/ It's a bit of a catch 22 
I will keep at it and hopefully soon I will adjust to it and be able to move with him a bit more


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## princessfluffybritches (Aug 10, 2012)

I think it takes maybe up to a year to where you can sit all the time. There's certain muscles that have to stretch and learn to absorb the impact. I used to practice what it felt like by holding myself into the pommel while relaxing everything. I knew I was getting close when I could remove my hand and stay soft.

Someone showed me once a way towards a sitting trot is to twist your belly button to move left and right. It would be like bicycling without lifting your knees up. When you twist to the right, your hip and leg become longer and softer, and so forth. It's kindof like sitting the trot on one side than the other at a time, LOL.

The way I learned it was to "push the swing" every other stride, then every stride.


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## DanisMom (Jan 26, 2014)

If you tense your legs and push against the irons as recommended by ForeverSunRider, you will score very poorly in any class you enter. No tension allowed, especially in dressage. It also causes the horse to tense. Better to relax and move with the horse. I know it's easier said than done. I too have a horse with a bouncy trot. Actually the roughest trot I've ever ridden. We're still working on it.


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## AceyGrace (Jan 21, 2014)

Yeah I definitely feel like I need to release tension rather than use it :/ but atm I'm just looking for any little tricks to even get past a few strides before banging up and down haha!

Princess - thanks for your tips... but what does 'push the swing' mean? Sorry if that's a really dumb question :/ lol. Yeah I've been finding a bit of success by making small posting movements but without actually coming out of the saddle. Like just lifting my hips forward/up and back/down. But I can only do this for short periods of time and when he is working in an outline. Like you say, I need to build those muscles I think 

I also feel like I lean forward. Kind of like I'm going into the fetal position to prepare for the horrendous bouncing!! haha. Once I relax I know this should all fall into place a little quicker but I'm having a bit of a mental block :/

Thanks again!


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## Little Jane (Mar 7, 2013)

Why not save sit work for later? If you're going for competition, I think the lower levels allow posting.

I've been riding dressage for about five years now, and have only just started sitting this past week. I've ridden many different english-trained horses, all of which had a lot of action/forward movement at the trot. It was simply easier to post. As my ability and strength progressed, I got to the point of having a nice, deep, independent seat at a posting trot and a walk, with just a bit of canter now and then. Last week, my instructor (who had forgotten that she'd never taught me to sit a trot) said, "Why don't you sit the trot with your mare? I've found that she works better in a sitting trot." She's part Arab and has a lot of forward movement. Without any instruction, I was able to sit her trot, simply because I had developed an independent, deep seat from posting work. It went so well that my instructor was surprised when I reminded her that I hadn't sat before. And yesterday, during the workout with my mare, we actually had a very lovely canter that I was able to sit—something that was impossible just three months ago (I know because we tried, lol!).

It is a TON of work, though—at least on my mare. I have a friend who has ridden a lot of Western, so she's more used to sitting than posting, but when she started riding at our barn, with our english-trained horses that really move forward, she found posting easier. It depends a lot on the horse; for me on my horse, it's a lot of work to sit, but she moves so much better that I'm making the effort (I'm not into showing, we're just training at the moment).

So, I would suggest posting for a while, developing your seat, before working much on sitting the trot. When you do try it, use your abs. Think of how you would use your abs to clear your throat or blow your nose (yes, that's strange) and hold them there, allowing your breathing to be very deep and from your diaphragm, as you would for singing or screaming. Think of holding yourself upright from your belly button. Don't think "stretch tall"—instead, allow your spine to remain flexible and neutral and _look_ up. Let your hips move up and down independently with the horse's movement; that is, let your right hip go _down_ as the horse's right hind stretches back while at the same time your left hip goes _up_ as the left hind comes up and under your seat. Hold yourself from your belly button—let those abs work hard. You can use the backside of your thighs IF you know how to isolate those muscles from the inner and front thigh and from the lower leg. I like to think of using the back of my thighs and my abs to draw the horse's back up and under me. It also helps to think of riding the horse's hind end into your hands, as if you wanted his hind feet to be stepping into the bridle. That should help him to bring his back up and step under himself with his hind end. I've always been taught to not worry so much about the "frame" of the horse, but to rather get his back up and have him use his body correctly—then the head and neck come into "frame" naturally. 

If your saddle has a grab strap, you can hold that, or you can hold the front of the saddle with just one hand (I like to use the outside hand). It does introduce some tension, but it is upper body tension that I and my trainer find easy to take out of the equation as soon as the abs, legs, and seat muscles learn to absorb the impact. Also, you can build up slowly. Just sit two or three strides, then post again. When you can sit two or three strides very nicely and correctly, try four strides. It will take a while—it's okay  The muscles are unaccustomed to being used in that way.

Another thing that is indispensable is having someone who can watch you (the more educated they are about riding, the more they help, but even an untrained observer can give feedback if you let them know what to look for). When I sit the trot, I feel like I am bouncing all over the place, but my trusty ground people and the mirror in our arena (another helpful tool, if you can hang one somewhere) tell me that my form is actually pretty good.

Sorry this got so long. I'm a young rider, both in years and in experience, so take what I say with the appropriate large grain of salt, and maybe someone who has good experience will chime in here


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## Janskee (Nov 16, 2013)

I've been doing a lot of sitting trot work recently, and have gotten much better. Here is what has worked for me: Sit back (this reduces bouncing a lot), and bring your shoulder blades together, lifting your chest. This allows more movement in your hips/seat to follow the horse. It is similar to how you sit the canter, except of course that at the trot your hips are even and it is a two-beat gait, versus the canter where it is a three-beat gait. I find it easier to sit the trot without stirrups because it is easier to keep my ankle under my hip, and this is also important. When using stirrups, make sure you are absorbing energy with your ankles (don't have them rigidly pushed down into your stirrups).

On another note, some English horses just don't have a sittable trot, like my 16.3 thoroughbred who has a ton of suspension and a sensitive back. I just don't sit the trot on him, and mostly canter in a two-point. However, for any horse a collected trot is much easier to sit than an extended trot.


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

I second what Janskee said above. 

I do not ride English, but I ride without stirrups most of the time. I almost lost my right leg in an accident that messed up my right ankle and hip pretty badly, so stirrup-less is many times the only way I can ride.

I literally _lean back_ a bit. For my upper body, I sit like my grandma used to make me, with shoulders square and down, shoulder blades together as Janskee said, opening the chest up.

I think as you get more practice, you will not be leaning back as much as at first, although the bouncier the trot, the more I lean back.

This may be totally wrong, as I am an unschooled backyard rider, but it works for me.


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## AceyGrace (Jan 21, 2014)

So I managed to do a good 3-4 strides of sitting trot today 
I really focused on the alternating hip movement and it helped a lot! I was also riding with no contact at all (would be western if my horse knew what that meant lol) I waited until he had a nice long and low head carriage and was really relaxed and then only asked him for a few steps of trot and he didn't throw his head up dramatically like usual haha.
So all in all a small victory  Thanks everyone!


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## Janskee (Nov 16, 2013)

Good job! Another piece of advice from my trainer was that when sitting the trot, you should feel a little like you're riding a bike and peddling backwards. With each stride, you should feel a little 'kick up' on one side and a 'kick down' on the other side with your legs.


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## princessfluffybritches (Aug 10, 2012)

AceyGrace said:


> Yeah I definitely feel like I need to release tension rather than use it :/ but atm I'm just looking for any little tricks to even get past a few strides before banging up and down haha!
> 
> Princess - thanks for your tips... but what does 'push the swing' mean? Sorry if that's a really dumb question :/ lol. Yeah I've been finding a bit of success by making small posting movements but without actually coming out of the saddle. Like just lifting my hips forward/up and back/down. But I can only do this for short periods of time and when he is working in an outline. Like you say, I need to build those muscles I think
> 
> ...


You keep a horse cantering by "pushing the swing". Is that more clear? Pushing the swing puts the small of your back in the proper position to absorb the bump. 

When you've really made it to sitting trot is when you can push the swing with every stride all the time and won't need to push the swing as hard as you used to.

Or it's the same posture set up as when you start to sit down in a chair- we tend to straighten that curve in the lower back as you feel for the chair.


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## AceyGrace (Jan 21, 2014)

princessfluffybritches said:


> You keep a horse cantering by "pushing the swing". Is that more clear? Pushing the swing puts the small of your back in the proper position to absorb the bump.
> 
> When you've really made it to sitting trot is when you can push the swing with every stride all the time and won't need to push the swing as hard as you used to.
> 
> Or it's the same posture set up as when you start to sit down in a chair- we tend to straighten that curve in the lower back as you feel for the chair.


ah yeah that makes sense  I did feel today that I controlled the pace/movement a lot more than before and I think it's because I was 'pushing the swing' 

I'm going to think of the bicycle analogy next time and try to lean back a bit to stop myself feloding over. I'll see if that makes it click even more!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

When I learnt to ride (continental Europe) they made us sit the trot before posting, and they made us do a lot of work without stirrups, walk, trot and canter. We cursed about it at the time but it made us learn fast. You basically have to be as relaxed and elastic as possible, and sit deep, and imagine you are trying to reach for something with the top of your head. Imagine you are made of rubber and you are glued to the saddle. The slightest amount of tension increases bouncing. Totally relaxing will give you the least bumpy ride. It's kind of like learning to float on your back in water, you have to really relax or it doesn't work out so well.

A little trick to help you sit closer to your horse: Pull your inner thigh muscles slightly back with your hand, reaching in behind your leg as you are sitting in the saddle. Also you can get offset stirrup irons that raise the outer edge of your foot and help your inner leg contact the horse more closely. These kinds of things can help with the sitting trot.


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## princessfluffybritches (Aug 10, 2012)

Yea, the European method Sue mentioned works!-having to learn to sit prior to posting. A lot can be done on a lunge line.

I have a gaited horse for 9 years now, so I'm dying to get on a trotting horse and take a few dressage lessons just being able to sit the trot like I used to many years ago.

With everyone's input, something is bound to "click" .


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## AceyGrace (Jan 21, 2014)

I got a friend to lunge me today while I practiced and it went really well 
All the advice really helped so thanks everyone!

I was wondering though if anyone has any tips for how to stop bouncing once you start? With stirrups it's not too hard because I do one or two strides of rising trot and try again. But with stirrups every once in a while I lapse and the second there's a tiny bit of tension I bounce and can't regain my self at all.

I'm also used to riding a gaited Saddlebred so this new horse is really sorting my ego out! haha


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## Janskee (Nov 16, 2013)

When you start bouncing, sit deep, lean back and pull your shoulder blades together. Leaning back will stop the bouncing, and pulling your shoulder blades together allows your hips to move with the horse. While posting, you should actually be more or less in the same position, with the only difference being the rise. Try practicing 10 steps at sitting trot (or make it 5 if you can't keep from bouncing for 10) and then 10 posting, and alternate back and forth until you can find your rythm as soon as you sit the trot each time.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I'm wondering what breed of horse you have because a high stepping horse is not preferred in the UK at all and not something horses there are trained to do - unless you're into breed classes like the Welsh Cobs and they have a natural higher action.
For a long time now if a horse doesn't have a long sweeping 'daisy cutting' action then its not what people want especially for the show or dressage ring
If your horse is lifting its knees too high and its not breed related it could be that you're not allowing it to go forwards enough because you're trying to collect it using your hands to fasten its head in rather than ride it forwards into a light hands using your legs and seat


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## AceyGrace (Jan 21, 2014)

Thanks Janskee, will give that a go 

Jaydee - my horse is a mongrel with horrendous conformation! lol. I'm under no illusions that he will ever be a dressage horse. He is actually getting on a bit now and is an ex hunter who is fantastic at that but has had very little time in the school ring. His canter is to die for and you could sit that all day  but his trot has just not been worked on at all and now he is an old boy set in his ways.
I'm definitely not trying to push him too hard with dressage movements or anything. Just wanted to improve my riding and his trot is just a little set back haha


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