# Gentle bit for a two year old?



## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I would just use a loose ring snaffle.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-tack-equipment/bit-information-snaffle-english-type-bits-36522/
I really like starting a horse with a full cheek french link or full cheek mullen mouth. The full cheeks add lateral pressure to the cheeks to make steering "clearer" and they cannot be pulled through the mouth.


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## shesinthebarn (Aug 1, 2009)

Ditto Kevin. I like one with copper inlay or sweetiron. I'm not a fan of those rubber ones.


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## AztecBaby (Mar 19, 2009)

Ok, I bought her a single jointed eggbutt snaffle 

Thanks everyone


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

shesinthebarn said:


> Ditto Kevin. I like one with copper inlay or sweetiron. I'm not a fan of those rubber ones.


I am not a fan of those rubber bits either and feel they contribute to a heavy headed horse. That and bitless.

My training bit is a copper roller D ring snaffle with a jointed mouth piece.


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## Plains Drifter (Aug 4, 2009)

What is the average size a two yr old would use for a snaffle?


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## RiddlesDarkAngel5 (Jun 2, 2009)

i really like french link snaffles. they're very gentle and they break up pressure on their mouth so its easier for them to get used to hand pressure.


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## APHA MOMMA (Jul 10, 2009)

Both my 2 yr olds use 5" and they both use the loose ring snaffles. Works wonders on them.  Glad you found one that you like though.


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## Jessa (Mar 6, 2008)

I woulda said the french link, or double jointed D ring (or Fullcheek) snaffle.

I'm told the 'apple' flavoured etc.. bits disintergrate quickly. Single joints I do not like as they can hit the roof of the mouth and pinch (again, not all, but rather be safe than sorry).

Sweet iron is ok, copper just doesn't taste very good (IMO).

Personal choice.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I don't like riding 2 year old's, but if I had to choose, I would go with a Happy Mouth first.

A doube jointed happy mouth on that matter. I dislike and refuse to use single jointed bits - they create a nutcracker effect in the horses mouths *not all* which creates pain.

Why not something like this:


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

People that are too soft, people that look for the mildest bit or bitless tend to have spoiled horses. A horse needs to learn respect for both you and the bit. A harsher bit in soft hands gets your further then a soft bit used harshly by unschooled hands.
I do work problem horses for people and every one of those are soft people and most have plastic bits or some other form of mild bit or bitless and they wonder why they have no control???
A young teenage girl came to me with a problem about a month ago. Her arab mare took off on her while out trail riding and she tried everything to stop her. She really was scared and thought they were going to crash taking the corners at a high rate of speed. I asked her what bit she was using??? Bitless of coarse.. I just shake my head and marvel at the stupidity of people.


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## savvylover112 (Jul 17, 2009)

Just because someone rides bitless does not mean their horse is heavy and is uncontrollable you can't think that everyone in the whole world who rides bitless or in a mild bit has a heavy or spoiled horse and that all these horses ridden bitless or in a mild bit are out of control can you?


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

The sad truth is that alot of uncontollable horses are ridden by rough handed people using "mild" bits. If you use a mild bit and your horse does what you would like it to do then great but I agree with Riosdad, alot of harm can be done by well meaning people trying to go bitless because they think it's more comfortable for the horse. It probably is more comfortable but the way you get horses to respond is by creating discomfort until the proper response is made.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

If you can't control a horse in a mild bit, both YOU and the horse need training, not just the horse.

Generally speaking, most "problem horses" (99%) are "problem horses" due to improper riding and training - i.e. it's the rider's fault. So then why should the horse be punished with a harsh bit when all it takes is retraining? Sure, it's not the nice shortcut that a harsh bit will take, but it will get the job done correctly.


Think of it like you're learning a foreign language (that's what it is, to a horse) - if you don't understand something, me getting on a megaphone (stronger bit) and yelling it at you isn't going to help one iota.

I shake my head at people that think that a harsh bit is the answer. It's not. Proper training is.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

savvylover112 said:


> Just because someone rides bitless does not mean their horse is heavy and is uncontrollable you can't think that everyone in the whole world who rides bitless or in a mild bit has a heavy or spoiled horse and that all these horses ridden bitless or in a mild bit are out of control can you?


I have 20 plus years of riding bitless and my bit of choice is a copper roller jointed snaffle but I am not everyone. I have 52 years of experience and make outstanding horse. I am just making an observation based on hundreds of people I have met over the half century in boarding facilities.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I agree with that. The problem people have with going bitless is that they don't put enough pressure to get the response they want or they don't release when they get that response.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

RiosDad said:


> I have 20 plus years of riding bitless and my bit of choice is a copper roller jointed snaffle but I am not everyone. I have 52 years of experience and make outstanding horse. I am just making an observation based on hundreds of people I have met over the half century in boarding facilities.


My horse is quite responsive and respectful in a full cheek french link. He much prefers a double jointed bit over a single joint. 
Just thought I'd point out that one can have a hundred years' experience in anything but it means nothing if those hundred years were spent doing it wrong. Not saying you are/have been, but.. time is relative.

I shake my head when I see someone "correcting" a horse with a harsh bit. Why can't they go a few steps back and start all over in a kind bit? Sometimes a harsher bit in experienced hands can be an asset, but you can usually get better responses by taking the horse back to square one.... see my previous post.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

JustDressageIt said:


> If you can't control a horse in a mild bit, both YOU and the horse need training, not just the horse.
> 
> Generally speaking, most "problem horses" (99%) are "problem horses" due to improper riding and training - i.e. it's the rider's fault.


The last part is the truth.. "it's the riders fault" 99% of the problems out there are the riders fault, not the horse, not the lack of training but the RIDERS FAULT.
There are no bad horse, just bad riders.
Like I said earlier I ride problem horse and the runaways, the buckers, the barn sour horse etc etc all seem to disappear within minutes under the proper hands. 
I have soft hands, very gentle hands but they can become mean if I don't get the response I want .
This is just an example.
If I wanted to teach you to duck and I taped you on the shoulder as a signal to duck how long would it take you until the proper response to a tap is to duck??
Now if I tapped you on the shoulder and then hit you over the head with a 2 x4 how long would it take you to learn to duck at the slightest tap on the shoulder???

No sometimes you have got to be rougher to get a soft horse and if you think it is through fear then you know nothing. 

I do not hit horse except if they bite me and then it is whatever I have in my hands he gets in the chops.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

JustDressageIt said:


> My horse is quite responsive and respectful in a full cheek french link.


I ride in a roller copper snaffle and I hardly get to use the reins, it is all body language and the weight of the reins. So what is your point?


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

RiosDad said:


> The last part is the truth.. "it's the riders fault" 99% of the problems out there are the riders fault, not the horse, not the lack of training but the RIDERS FAULT.
> There are no bad horse, just bad riders.
> Like I said earlier I ride problem horse and the runaways, the buckers, the barn sour horse etc etc all seem to disappear within minutes under the proper hands.
> I have soft hands, very gentle hands but they can become mean if I don't get the response I want .
> ...


Question then: why couldn't you just tell me that you wanted me to duck when you tapped my shoulder? Sure, you could whack me over the head, but why not explain what you want first?
You could whack, you get the desired response, but is it really the BEST way to get your desired response? There are a hundred other ways to explain it where I don't end up concussed, or hurt in the least. 
Riding is the exact same way - you just can't use words. Instead, you explain to the horse what you want through body language and artificial aids like a bridle. 
I certainly wouldn't expect ANYONE to respond to a tap on the shoulder with ducking - but explaining what you want first will usually yield good results. I certainly wouldn't even think if "whacking over the head with a 2x4" anywhere near the top of the list of things I would try first.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

RiosDad said:


> I ride in a roller copper snaffle and I hardly get to use the reins, it is all body language and the weight of the reins. So what is your point?


 
Your point seemed to be that a lot of horses who are ridden in mild bits are spoiled or heavy on the hand, I was offering an example where that isn't the case.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

I mentioned reins so I will elongate on that. I ride in 3/4 inch 7 foot long good quality heavy leather riens. I don't tie a knot in them and if I get dumped I have something to hang onto. I also have something to ground tie the horse with. I also expect if he runs off he steps on one and I hope he gives himself a good jerk.
I do not believe in synthetic light weight reins , ones that the horse can't feel. I want him to feel the reins, I want him to feel when I pick them up, when I lay one on his neck. The weight of the reins signals him that I want something to happen and if I start taking the slack out of them he slows down, if I lift them higher he stops, if my hand moves off center he turns to correct this offcenter ness.

The weight of the reins are all you should need if the body cues don't work first. The bit is only back up to me, not the primary control but the emergency brake so to speak


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

I agree - in the western world. I haven't a clue why anyone would want a lightweight rein. 
In the english world though, we keep constant contact (read: not hanging on the horse's mouth, but a light contact) throughout the ride. I have a feel for the horse's jaw and tongue. I certainly don't need to haul on the reins, the slightest wiggle of a finger is all that I need to communicate to a horse's sensitive mouth what I want. 
I should also mention that riding should never come from the hands first - SEAT, leg, hand.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

JustDressageIt said:


> Question then: why couldn't you just tell me that you wanted me to duck when you tapped my shoulder? Sure, you could whack me over the head, but why not explain what you want first?
> You could whack, you get the desired response, but is it really the BEST way to get your desired response? .


You teach a horse to stop, lots of stops from a walk in the round pen or arena. You sit back, say Whoa and touch the reins. How long to do keep at this to teach the horse to have a good solid stop with just gentle reminder?? NOw try this, you give the cue and then set the horse down hard??? A hard shut down a couple of times after the initial training gets you a long way towards having a horse with a solid stop and no bit used.
If you shut a horse down hard they quickly learn that your sitting back and a simple HO gets the desired response. A horse that doens't take another step and stands rooted to the ground.
Who is being gentle?? The person that continuelly nags the horse about his stop or the one that has been shut down hard a few times and from then on stops with a simple cue and no reins??


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

JustDressageIt said:


> Question then: why couldn't you just tell me that you wanted me to duck when you tapped my shoulder? Sure, you could whack me over the head, but why not explain what you want first?
> You could whack, you get the desired response, but is it really the BEST way to get your desired response? There are a hundred other ways to explain it where I don't end up concussed, or hurt in the least.
> Riding is the exact same way - you just can't use words. Instead, you explain to the horse what you want through body language and artificial aids like a bridle.
> I certainly wouldn't expect ANYONE to respond to a tap on the shoulder with ducking - but explaining what you want first will usually yield good results. I certainly wouldn't even think if "whacking over the head with a 2x4" anywhere near the top of the list of things I would try first.


No 2 x 4's were used in the training of horses but it was an example of using roughness to get the desired effect. I could tell you to duck when I touched your shoulder but after a few warnings the 2 x 4 would help it sink in. First you ask nicely and after repeated asking you use a little force and it sinks in.
I have a very pretty girl in my class that insists on wearing openned toed sandles in my class. I have asked her over and over again to NOT wear Sandles in my classroom but she always forgets.. One day I told her that if she wears sandles in my class room after today I would pick her up and carry her out of the lab for her own safety.
I keep hoping she will forget but she has never again entered my classroom with sandles.:lol: DAM


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I use little to no contact english. I think it depends on the style of your riding, the amount of rein preasure you use. For one of my horses I don't even touch my reins for the whoa. For another, I do. Ones hunt trained, ones pleasure trained...


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

farmpony84 said:


> I use little to no contact english. I think it depends on the style of your riding, the amount of rein preasure you use. For one of my horses I don't even touch my reins for the whoa. For another, I do. Ones hunt trained, ones pleasure trained...


Farmpony, I do have to remark here that I believe you do HUS? Which to me is more WP with english tack. I'm not trying to be mean or anything like that, but it is definitely watered-down. (And you guys are allowed to outfit a Dee ring with a curb chain haha) With dressage/jumpers/hunters, you want to keep a good steady contact with your horse. You want them to move from your seat and your leg, but support with the rein. You want a light contact in the sense that you aren't playing tug-of-war.


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## AztecBaby (Mar 19, 2009)

Well here is Pearl wearing her bridle for the second time ever  as you can see she was quite happy to mouth it xP

I would just like to make it clear that I won't be riding her for months, this is just so i can long rein her.


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## Misfit (Jun 29, 2009)

Loose-ring french link to get them used to the bridle. I find a lot of horses like the extra 'play' it gives them.

Then, once you start working on steering, either a d-ring or a full cheek to help with lateral control.

As for the mini discussion about roughness, '2X4s' and 'sitting a horse down' aren't the ways I personally like to work with horses. I understand it works for you, and I'm happy it does. I have the utmost respect for your methods. But, it's personally not for me.

Now, I'm not against giving a horse what-for if it's necessary. Things that concern safety and flat out aggression/defiance/rudeness I don't mess around with. The rest of the time, I like using as little pressure as possible but as much as necessary, especially with green horses.

For example, I put on a gentle leg aid to go forward. I get no response. With a schooled horse, I may go straight for my crop/spur. They know better, they're just being lazy. However, with a green horse who doesn't understand, I'll put my leg on stronger. If I get a response, great. If I don't, I again increase my aid. Eventually I may get to the crop stage, but I give horses more chances because they're trying to figure it out.


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## Misfit (Jun 29, 2009)

Forgot to say: Pearl is a cutie. I think she wants to come live with me.


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