# Dropped fetlocks (this is long!)



## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

Hey all!

About a month ago, I purchased my first horse. Straight legs, no history of lameness, and ridden with me 5-6 days a week with no lameness or soreness. I did notice that his fetlocks dip when moving, but not being a vet and knowing he has consistently shown for years with no problems, and seeing it in a few other horses... I didn't give it too much thought. I did not get a pre-purchase exam for a host of reasons that are not pertinent to this post! 

See first picture of him-- cranky that I was taking pictures of him after an unexpected bath, hehe, but a decent shot of him standing around to give you an idea of what he looks like and how his fetlocks are when he's relaxed.

Today I had a vet out to check some stiffness he's had in his left hind leg and overall wonkiness (can't put a finger on it) in his hind movement; it isn't hindering his work--in fact he is eager--and I can't detect any lameness, but I was concerned that it might be causing him pain he wasn't showing.

In under an hour and without a single x-ray, sonogram or blood test (in fact, she trotted him away and towards us barely twice) this vet diagnosed Jax with neurological disorder likely EPM, and with DSLD--degenerative suspensory ligament desmitis. She told me he was unsafe to ride, unrideable, and (I quote) could only be a "pasture ornament." Keep in mind that only yesterday, this horse was eager and fun and obedient in the arena, so to hear this pretty much shut me down and I was to the point of tears when she left. 

I spoke to my farrier, to barn friends, to Jax's last owner; the last owner talked to her vet and Jax's first owner. Everyone was pretty surprised and angry at the vet. In retrospect, her neurological assessment was (to be frank) bull and not very thorough. When I repeated all of the vet's exam techniques after she left, Jax responded appropriately each time. He is a very compliant horse and I am relatively confident that was all it was.

As for the DSLD, I just want to remind you that Jax has never been diagnosed lame and showed consistently from the end of 2007-2011 with no breaks in his record, indicating he was sound for them. He does however, drop his fetlocks when doing his bouncy floaty trot (see pictures, I tried to get shots when they were dropped as far as they go). There is an old picture of him from shows and he did it then, too.

I bought a good pair of Iconoclast SMBoots for him to wear (the ones that pull up under the fetlocks), I have him on Smartpak smartvite and smartcombo (with joint supp), and my barn manager's daughter has offered to trailer Jax to her vet for a second opinion. I also want to get a chiro out to sort out his hind end, since the vet offered NO helpful information on how to help him. Jax's last two owners have been in touch with me and let me know that if I am having second thoughts, there is a trainer in Scottsdale that was really bummed about not getting him and they could talk to her and see if she is still interested-- if I want. Which, I really don't want. :-( But I also don't want to have a horse with medical problems in the future.

I guess I'm asking for thoughts and advice. Sorry for the long post, but any help is really appreciated right now.


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

Iv seen horses fetlocks that dropped alot more then your horses fetlocks do. Its possible its DSLD but doesnt look real bad. Id get a second opion on him from pics he certianly doesnt look like hed be unridable. Or even unsafe to ride but then agian pictures dont always tell the whole story. In the standing pics i dont see his fetlocks dropped much at all.


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## BarrelracingArabian (Mar 31, 2010)

I agree a second opinion couldnt hurt.


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## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

Thanks for the input so far, guys. I started looking around online and am noticing that there are many pictures of horses dropping their fetlocks similar to mine at a trot (eg. in horse-for-sale ads, etc). Not saying it's normal, of course.

I am anxious to get a second opinion. The farrier is coming tomorrow to bring Jax's toes back a little and I think I'll trailer out to my friend's vet this weekend.

I really don't want to sell Jax because I'm starting to love and trust this horse quite a bit, but knowing that the other trainer is still interested makes me anxious to find out if he's a horse I should sell.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

There is a huge difference between DSLD and being a little '**** footed'. I would call him **** footed unless his legs look a lot different than he did when he was a 2 or 3 year old. How old it he now?

As for the EPM diagnosis -- that is pretty irresponsible to diagnose something like that without much more advanced evaluation.

Have someone lead this horse away from you and as he walks, pull his tail to the side (each side) and see how badly he stumbles when he is pulled off balance by his tail while he is walking. It is a pretty good neurological test.

Kinda like horses -- all Vets are not created equal.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

ImHO....this vet needs to draw unemployment......
He is not dropping anything, the only thing I see is feet in need of doing. Longish toe and a bit high in the heel, especially behind.


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

When horses bear weight, the fetlocks dip towards the ground. That is a normal part of horse movement. Look at slow-motion footage of racing TBs- their fetlocks actually hit the turf at times! What I see in the picture is a normal horse with normal movement. Unless something has seriously changed from that trotting picture, I'd say you need to talk to another vet. Preferably one with good references and/or that is well-respected in the equine community.

Good video:


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## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

Wow, thank you so much. Sharpie that video is helpful-- I really didn't think he was so abnormal! The pictures of his "dropped" fetlocks were actually stills from a video I took today, trotting him around me on the lead rope on hard ground after the vet left.

He is 11 years old in March. I think what I am actually dealing with is a tiny bit of arthritis (which the vet mentioned but didn't even spend a moment addressing), so when I get my second opinion I am going to talk to the vet about an adequan or pentosan shot, and stick with a chiro.

Now that I can relax about Jax, I can start fuming over the $250 it cost to have this idiot vet drive out and lie to me... I thought I was going with a reputable vet group (when which I wouldn't have minded the cost), but apparently I was wrong.


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## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

Also Cherie, the vet did the tail-pull and she seemed to mumble a lot that well, he seemed to be okay "but..." (I feel like she was looking to confirm her diagnosis, not reject it, if you know what I mean?). We were on sandy rocky ground and when he didn't stumble, she reaaally dragged him and tried to make him stumble up (I was internally panicking about her diagnoses and didn't watch as well as I should have...  ). I will do it again with someone from my barn on the pavement.

I am relatively sure he has no neurological issues. He doesn't stumble when we are riding or anything.


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## BBBCrone (Jan 28, 2012)

Say what???

Okay I'm not vet but yeah ... definitely time for a second opinion. And perhaps a refund. Dang.


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## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

BBBCrone said:


> Say what???
> 
> Okay I'm not vet but yeah ... definitely time for a second opinion. And perhaps a refund. Dang.


Ooooh can I ask for a refund if a second opinion argues otherwise? 

I am still waiting for her email with her full write-up (the little printer in the truck wasn't working, so she said she'd send her writeup this evening). What confuses me is that several people know of this vet and have not had bad experiences, yet I have to say totally agree that her diagnoses are jumping the gun and possibly unfounded.

I can't wait for that second opinion so I can get some peace of mind.


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## BBBCrone (Jan 28, 2012)

**** ... Well I would but I'm a snot like that. Especially if all this comes out to be unfounded which ends up costing you more money in the end for nothing. It's one thing if he needs it but money doesn't grow on trees. But like I said, I'm a snot LOL


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## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

BBBCrone said:


> **** ... Well I would but I'm a snot like that. Especially if all this comes out to be unfounded which ends up costing you more money in the end for nothing. It's one thing if he needs it but money doesn't grow on trees. But like I said, I'm a snot LOL


LOL oh we have that in common. I am the kind of person to write nasty reviews for their website until they make it write... as we speak, I was just filling out a "client feedback" form on the vet's website... :lol:

I truly hope it was all unfounded and the most trouble I have is getting my money back!


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## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

* right, not write! haha. make it right!


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Get a second opinion. That is my only advice. I would refrain from doing anything while you do - imagine for a moment that the first vet is right, and you did more damage while waiting for a second opinion?


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## BBBCrone (Jan 28, 2012)

Yep ... Chiila definitely has a point. Wait until the second opinion and then do what you feel is right.


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## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

I think I will. I didn't ride today and booked the farrier ASAP (hence the tomorrow AM appointment), and am waiting for a call back for when I can do my second opinion with the other vet. I want to get this squared-away as soon as possible. Thanks for the support, guys.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

From those photos I do not see a single thing abnormal about your horse's fetlocks or the amount they drop at work. 

The object of a horse's fetlock IS to absorb shock so they will drop when weighted more (at the trot, canter and gallop).

Look at the hind fetlock on this horse at the gallop. (This is Upset beating Man O' War BTW). The other photos is the series from the Muybridge photos showing Clinton Cantering. Look at the fetlocks.


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## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

Thanks Elana, those help. I agree with you 100%.

Here are some videos after the farrier today. I didn't have anyone with me to do trot towards/away, but here's some roundpen and me being sick/stuffy/tired and talking in the backgorund, hehe.











On that youtube acct there are two other vids of him wearing boots, which I didn't post here-- I took off the boots because I didn't want to change too many things at once and then not be able to pinpoint a behavior (new weird boots, new feet, etc ).

I should also mention that I did ride a little just to make sure he felt right--first time with this new farrier--and Jax was eager to go go go! He didn't feel off so I gave in a loped him around the arena a little to get his jitters out, and he seemed happier for it.

Any thoughts on his movement? I *think* I see that sometimes the gap between his rear legs is shorter than that between his fronts, but then other times it evens out.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

That horse has a nice floating movement. He is simply going along.. not putting in effort.. and he is floating. 

I see NOTHING wrong with that horse.


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## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

Elana, with this horse and the last one I was looking at, I listened to your advice and criticism even though sometimes I had to grit my teeth and think to myself "put your pride and your "but I want it!" attitude in your pocket, she's right." But right now I could hug you!

PS you should know that I am riding Jax in a side-pull like you suggested, and he has been going beautifully in it! Thank you!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Same here, absolutely nothing wrong!
For his arthritis....movement. living out 24/7 does wonders for an arthritic horse. My arthritic TB would come out of his stall stiff as a rock and creaking everywhere. Changing his living arrangement to outside 24/7, he was running, bucking, kicking and rearing up to when he died of heart failure at 26


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

No need for hugs. JUST SEND MONEY........................

(I am real easy to please).


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

BTW how is the side pull thing going for him and you?


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## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

LOL. Out of everything I've tried, he clearly loves the sidepull best. Our riding has been less over the past few days due to the issues in this post, but when we do ride, he is actually more responsive to me, especially in the leg. He also thinks more, which I find interesting! He'll think about the gait/movement patterns I'm asking for and catch on so fast that I have to switch them up.

Again, because of vet things I haven't started lessons with him to work on helping him collect, but I will say that his canter is a lot smoother and feels more collected & relaxed. The woman we will be working with is actually a dressage trainer who does all-around lessons, so I'm hopeful!

The only downside is that he looks awful funny with a western saddle and a pretty little dark brown english-y sidepull!


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

Nothing wrong with your horse hes got beautiful movement. Love his looks too handsome boy if you dont want him i"ll take him in a heart beat.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

This is the side pull I have used. Western "device" actually.. and I put my oiled split reins on it even though I was not neck reining.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

True dropped fetlocks are accompanied by loss of hock angulation, which your horse clearly does not have. Your horse is fine.


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

natisha said:


> True dropped fetlocks are accompanied by loss of hock angulation, which your horse clearly does not have. Your horse is fine.


I sure hope that horse in picture was put down looks to be miserable. How sad to see a horse in that state.


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## BBBCrone (Jan 28, 2012)

natisha said:


> True dropped fetlocks are accompanied by loss of hock angulation, which your horse clearly does not have. Your horse is fine.


Oh my gosh. I have never ever seen this before. This made my stomach turn.

But back on topic ... so glad Elana found this post. Those latest videos of him are nice!


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## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

BBBCrone said:


> Oh my gosh. I have never ever seen this before. This made my stomach turn.


You can see why I mostly panicked when the vet told me he was already on the way to that picture! :-( Crazy lady.

Chiro coming out next week, trying to get a secondary vet opinion ASAP. The more I ask people around me and on here, and see him in action, the more I am preeeetty sure he's fine.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I agree that this horse DOES NOT have DSLD. It does not have 'dropped fetlocks'.

But, there are a lot of different degrees of being '**** footed' or having pasterns that have too much give and drop more than is ideal. All fetlocks drop quite a bit at high speed but most not as much as some of the horses shown. The photos of TBs racing that show their fetlocks in the dirt to the point that their toes flip up dirt in front of them DO NOT have ideal conformation. They are '**** footed' and said to 'run down'. They need 'run down bandages' and special protection in order to not come back with bloody fetlocks and severe leg damage. They are certainly not 'ideal' in their conformation. Some are not even able to race on a soft or deep surfaces and have to run on turf. You can see that one is bandaged in the photos.


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## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

Cherie, do you find Jax ****-footed (from the videos and pictures)? Like I mentioned, I purchased iconoclast boots (the ones with the straps that wrap under the fetlock) for Jax just in case this veterinarian's case had some validity, although I will admit when I first put them on him today he looked like this http://i.imgur.com/IHzP0.gif at first, it was pretty hilarious. I think the most he's ever worn is polo wraps on his fronts.

Regardless, I think I'm going to start using them when I know we will be doing anything more than arena trotting or walking on the trails.


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## HollyBubbles (Jun 22, 2009)

Oh lord  I would have slapped any vet that tried to diagnose my horse with either of those without proper tests. How stupid.

I think your horses fetlocks are completely normal to be honest, but if your that worried about it, then definitely get a second opinion  hes a gorgeous horse btw


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## HollyBubbles (Jun 22, 2009)

existentialpony said:


> Cherie, do you find Jax ****-footed (from the videos and pictures)? Like I mentioned, I purchased iconoclast boots (the ones with the straps that wrap under the fetlock) for Jax just in case this veterinarian's case had some validity, although I will admit when I first put them on him today he looked like this http://i.imgur.com/IHzP0.gif at first, it was pretty hilarious. I think the most he's ever worn is polo wraps on his fronts.


hahahaha oh yes, that looks rather familiar, my boy STILL does that, but only when I put boots on his back legs now. Silly boy.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

If you are concerned a boot like "Professional Choice" (R) is a good one. 

OTOH if you horse is **** footed, a lot of that can be helped by trimming and proper farrier work. A lot of track farriers leave long toes and short heels as some trainers think it helps the horse to dig in and go faster. It does not really work that way. 

Upset, in the photo, has run down bandages.. as he wins one of the most famous match races ever to be held, giving Man O' War his ONLY defeat!


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## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

Thanks Holly! 

When the farrier was out yesterday I asked him to take the toes in short and told him about the vet's concerns so that he could address them. Jax seems to feel good! I don't know if it's coincidence or what, but his stiffness seemed better today too. And man was he wanting to move (for the second day in a row).

I'll keep you guys updated. I'm not sure when I will get a vet out-- they're all so busy and my trailer buddy doesn't have time to trailer us out until next week. We'll see what the chiro says on Thursday.


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## Beatrice9 (Jun 30, 2012)

A second opinion is always good if you don't feel confident about the first diagnosis. It seems like your following your gut instinct, so be confident that you know what's best. It really doesn't look like there is anything wrong with the way he walks, other than he needs his toes trimmed a bit more, but if he's stepping heel first and not flat footed then they are fine. My quarter horse gelding looks the same way when he walks, as if they could just snap at any moment, but it's normal. Don't let another user tell you he's unrideable, if he's not trying to throw you off because he's uncomfortable, then trust that he knows what's best for him.


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## Beatrice9 (Jun 30, 2012)

Any thoughts on his movement? I *think* I see that sometimes the gap between his rear legs is shorter than that between his fronts, but then other times it evens out.[/QUOTE]


He's your new horse, and you love him so much! It's completely normal to worry about everything. Same with babies, when I had my daughter, I rushed her to the pediatrition because her umbilical cord didn't look right... they giggled at me. Several years later, I giggle at myself for freaking out about things that I thought where wrong. And a second thing, I rushed her to the Dr. because she was turning her head funny... She was just learning to use her new muscles. Hahaha It's only normal to feel like your horse is your newborn baby!


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## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

Thanks everyone!

So a friend was finally at the barn at the same time as me, and I had the chance to watch someone else trot Jax towards/away from me. The vet was right in that he dips his right hind fetlock lower than his left, but it is nowhere near the ground like she said-- it just dips a little deeper.

My question is-- can this be at all related to the fact that he has stiffness/some kind of "thing" going on in his left hind? (ie. putting less weight on it) I can't see any lameness when I watch him from behind to suggest that, but I also didn't look that closely.

If he does in fact dip deeper in his right hind fetlock, is this a huge concern given the way he moves and the fact that it isn't causing him any pain (he was actually full of himself today between the cold weather and wind-- he wanted to runrunrunrunrun and decided to spook at everything to boot!)? From now on I plan on using the boots I bought every time we ride, at least on his back legs. Like I said, I don't plan to do more than western pleasure and competitive trails with him.

Still working on getting a vet out or trailering to one; chiro comes on Thursday.

Thoughts are appreciated!


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