# Worst lesson I've had :(



## vergo97 (Dec 23, 2010)

I just so annoyed after today 

I was on a new horse called Maggie and she is really nice on the ground, good to tack up and pick her feet out. There were four other people in my group, all on small ponies and about 7-8 years old (I'm 14). Because there were 5 people in my lesson we were taking up a lot of space and the lesson before us had four people in it so there wasn't enough room for everyone. I get told to quickly tack Maggie up when I'm still picking out her feet so half her feet weren't picked out and I have to tack up really fast.

I get into the school and get on Maggie and straight away she is misbehaving. She won't go forward until I have kicked her 4-5 times, and before going forward she went backwards. One I'm on the track she won't stick to the side, if I pull on the reins she just moves her head and if I use my leg she ignores it. I was in front most of the lesson and going at a snail’s pace but when I wasn't Maggie would want to overtake the horse in front. She also kept throwing her head around and will NOT keep it still. I let her have some rein, I took in all the rein, I took my hands off her neck, I put them on her neck, I gave her a kick, I ignored it but she would not stop. 

Then we went onto cantering. When it was my go I got Maggie into a trot and was told to go sitting so I did but I'm not good at sitting on good horses so when she started pulling her head forward I couldn't do it so had to go rising. I think I managed to do one stride of cantering but that was it. I felt so angry with her, like she was doing the opposite of everything I asked of her I know it’s not the horses fault, but she was just really annoying me.

One I had messed cantering up, I got told that It was because she was unbalanced and needs to lean on the rein. I was also told that I need to build up arm strength to stop her pulling me forward. How am I supposed to do that though with one lesson a week? My instructor said that because I didn't start riding when I was young I haven't been able to ride the trouble ponies so I'm not used to it. I suppose that’s true, but why put me on a horse that I can't do anything on? 

I also feel really stupid when I'm untacking. I was asked to get Maggie's rug but I didn't know which one it was (they are all in the hay barn and it’s really dark in there). I get told it’s the "checkered blue one", so I pick up one. I walk over to Maggie with the run and get told it’s the wrong one. I get walked back over to the rugs and my instructor points out the right one and says it in a way that makes it seem obvious which one is hers.

My mum seems to think that all lessons at all stables will be like this and that the only way to avoid this is to actually own a horse (which is never going to happen). Surely not all stables have horses like this though?


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

That's rough.. it sounds like she needs a firmer hand which isn't suitable for someone whom is still learning! Is there a reason they switched horses on you?

Some stables have good mounts, others... well they make do with what they've got. 

As for strong arms.. it's about a stronger core. So you can do some ab exercises to help you with that. A strong core will also make you a better rider  

Maybe she was backing up because she felt pressure on the reins? And yes, leaning on the reins is a tell tale sign they aren't balancing themselves. It could be a simple fix via just pushing her more into the bridle but if they aren't helping you..teaching you how to fix it and help the HORSE, then maybe you need to look into private lessons?

Either way, every lesson you learn something. Just to put frustrations aside and figure out what you learned.

Though I have to say.. blindly telling you to put a blanket on a horse and not telling you which one, then being rude. Maybe there was a bee in their bonnet.


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## mystykat (Dec 4, 2011)

Riding new horses is very good, you get the feel of different horses and that makes you a better rider. However, riding new horses that you are not ready for...will do nothing to help. You may get good at staying on but your technique is likely to not get better. I hope Maggie is not your permanent lesson horse.. If so, I would talk to your instructor. Simply letting them know you're not ready to ride "problem ponies". And I would also mention that you would like to focus on sitting the trot, and that you want to get that down before moving on. You should be able to talk to your instructor and feel comfortable making such demands. You are paying them and they are there to teach you. I have never been in a group lesson, I always took private and semi-private lessons so even when the horse was having a particularily stubborn day or I was just not getting something my instructor had all attention on me and was always patient and helped me and the horse through it. 

It's not fair to leave your lesson feeling frustrated.. You should feel accomplished and happy, and maybe even a little sore :wink:

And I don't even know what to say about that blanket part..just seems plain rude..!


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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

vergo97 said:


> I just so annoyed after today
> 
> I was on a new horse called Maggie and she is really nice on the ground, good to tack up and pick her feet out. There were four other people in my group, all on small ponies and about 7-8 years old (I'm 14). Because there were 5 people in my lesson we were taking up a lot of space and the lesson before us had four people in it so there wasn't enough room for everyone. I get told to quickly tack Maggie up when I'm still picking out her feet so half her feet weren't picked out and I have to tack up really fast.
> 
> ...


This doesn't sound like a pleasant place to ride.

I disagree with the "arm strength" comment. The resistance comes from your abs/center of balance. You don't really pull with your arms.

Also, a horse "leaning on a rein" is a bad thing. Sure, they need connection/collection, but they should absolutely not lean.

However, if you truly feel like you cannot handle this pony, go to the instructor and talk to her about it. Tell her that you feel uncomfortable, and that you feel that you are not ready to ride the pony. Also see if you can set up some 1-on-1 lessons. If she is unwilling to make changes, it's probably best to find another barn.

If at all possible, look in to Pony Club. It's super fun and it'd be really suited for you


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## Scoutrider (Jun 4, 2009)

It's a good thing to ride different horses and deal with horses that are more challenging - that's how we gain experience and grow as horsemen. Sometimes it can be frustrating when a horse truly challenges you to accomodate yourself to his/her idiosyncrasies, but learning how to be flexible and adapt to different horses is an invaluable skill.

That being said, moving up to "more horse" in a lesson, especially for a younger or less experienced rider, should be done with some sympathy from the instructor. When I was taking regular group lessons as a kid, if I was handed a new mount, the instructor would say "How about we put you on Flicka today? She's a princess on the ground, but she can be a bit balky and heavy on your hand once you get going, so prepare for that and be sure do XYZ, like you learned on Trigger last week, to set her straight. We'll talk more about that once you're mounted up." I suspect that Maggie will be a horse that can teach you a lot if you are shown the proper tools to work with her successfully. 

I, too, disagree with arm strength being the key to dealing with her heaviness, or that "she needs to lean on the rein" to be in balance. Your core muscles are of far more consequence in rider strength than arm muscles. If she is leaning on the rein, she is not in balance and is relying on you to do her job. That can be fixed by not bracing the rein against her leaning, combined with pushing her forward so that she can't dump her weight into your hands as easily - something that your instructor *should* be able to help you with. If he/she insists that leaning on the rein is a good thing and didn't just misspeak, well, it's definitely time to look into another instructor. 

To me, it sounds like perhaps it was just a bad day for all involved; a large class of mostly younger kids, at least one fussy pony, etc., can all put an instructor on edge. That being said, if this experience is similar to your other lessons, not a bizarrely bad day, perhaps it is time to look into a different lesson barn. Another option would be to take a private lesson or two on Maggie so that you and your instructor and iron out your difficulties without taking time from the other sudents in the group setting. 

Lesson stables run the gamut - some are excellent facilities with caring, knowledgeable instructors with a variety of suitable ponies that the instructor can and does pair up with riders as appropriate lesson-mates from one day to the next. Others are less stellar, for one reason or another. If you do opt to look for lessons elsewhere, I highly recommend observing a few lessons (most instructors don't mind if you are out of the way and aren't disruptive) before signing on to get an idea of the instructor's style. 

Good luck!


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## vergo97 (Dec 23, 2010)

Thanks for the replies, I can see the benefits of riding a trouble horse but I was just really upset yesterday. 

I don't know why they changed the horse I ride to her, she is new (they've only had her about 2 weeks) so when I ask what she is like to ride, they just say they don't really know. I rode her last week and she was better, but this week I couldn't get her to do anything and she kept wanting to go to the other horses.

I was told that I was _supposed _to be getting her to lean on the reins. I was told to imagine two kids playing "horses", one of them with a rope around their waist and the other one holding onto the rope ends. My instructor said that the kid being the "horse" would fall over if the other person let go of the rope, and that is what it is like with riding. I am holding onto the "rope" (reins) and the horse will "fall over" (become unbalanced) if I let go. Sorry if that’s a bit confusing, it’s hard to explain!

I know that it’s good to ride horses with problems sometimes, but I just don't feel I can cope with her because she doesn't do anything I ask of her and I don't know what to do to make her respond. 

I will ask at my next lesson if I can go back to the horse I normally ride, Charlie.

I would love to have private lessons, but the way lessons work at the stables is a bit strange. It's £20 for a lesson, and it could be a private, a semi-private or a huge group. I never know who will be in my lesson, how many people there will be or what level of riding they will be at. Sometimes there are just two of us, and sometimes, like yesterday, there are a lot more. I have only been in a group with someone who isn't on a pony about 5 times, but then they changed the day they have their lessons and now I am in a group with small ponies. Probably because everyone my age is more advanced than me. They only seem to reserve one-to-one lessons for beginners.

The lesson was probably worse than normal, and I was being taught by an instructor that I don't really work well with. She always seems stressed an makes me feel a bit stupid.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

mystykat said:


> You are paying them and they are there to teach you.
> ...It's not fair to leave your lesson feeling frustrated.. You should feel accomplished and happy, and maybe even a little sore :wink:


When my lesson horses didn't respond to to appropriate student cue I would cue them with a whip. I always spent my time teaching walking the middle of the ring.
There is a safety issue and it is appropriate for a good lesson horse to be slower at taking cues so as to teach you, a begginer, the standard for cues. Even Alois Podjawsky talked about some of his horses being fussy about responding to cues, in "My Horses, My Teachers."
If you really LOVE horses, they are doing you a favor. I have a friend about my age (54yo) who spent his youth taking lessons, than schooling hunters at his local stable--never owned his own horse. He burned out at age 18 (popular age for burning out.) Now he doesn't ride at all. I've owned horses for 26 years now.) =D


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## vergo97 (Dec 23, 2010)

This is a bit off topic, but I was just wandering if this is normal. When I arrive at the stables I have to go and get head collar and lead rope for the horse I'm riding. The horses don't have head collars that are theirs; they are all just hanging up all on top of each other. I end up spending ages looking for a head collar that looks like it might fit, and half the time it ends up not being the right size.

Also, is it ok to put a rug on a horse that is really dirty and a bit damp? The rugs that I put on Maggie were like that. And when I was tacking her up the saddle cloth was damp as well.

I'm not trying to find all the faults with the stable, I'm just genuinely wandering if it’s ok.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

vergo97 said:


> I was told that I was _supposed _to be getting her to lean on the reins. I was told to imagine two kids playing "horses", one of them with a rope around their waist and the other one holding onto the rope ends. My instructor said that the kid being the "horse" would fall over if the other person let go of the rope, and that is what it is like with riding. I am holding onto the "rope" (reins) and the horse will "fall over" (become unbalanced) if I let go.


Ack! And what happens if the horse pulls, will the kid go flying? You betcha! Get her off of your rein, there's a difference between leaning and contact. Are they trying for contact or are they truly asking her to lean?



> I know that it’s good to ride horses with problems sometimes, but I just don't feel I can cope with her because she doesn't do anything I ask of her and I don't know what to do to make her respond.
> 
> I would love to have private lessons, but the way lessons work at the stables is a bit strange. It's £20 for a lesson, and it could be a private, a semi-private or a huge group. I never know who will be in my lesson
> 
> and I was being taught by an instructor that I don't really work well with. She always seems stressed an makes me feel a bit stupid.


And you've asked your instructor for help? Because they should help you with that!

That doesn't sound very fair at all. 20 quid for a lesson that could be private, group, or whatever? That's a lot of money for inconsistency. Though saddle time is the only way to learn.

It bites having an instructor that you don't work with as well. But obviously they entrusted you with this new horse for a reason, maybe they're seeing something you aren't realizing?


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## attackships (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't like the idea of the damp blankets and tack... was it raining?

The haltering was the same at the barn I learned how to ride. They had lots of different colors so it became easier to know which one you had to grab for which horse.

It sounds like this instructor isn't giving you much help. Sure, learning on a "problem pony" is good experience, but when you're not being told how to handle things with her it's incredibly frustrating.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

vergo97 said:


> This is a bit off topic, but I was just wandering if this is normal. When I arrive at the stables I have to go and get head collar and lead rope for the horse I'm riding. The horses don't have head collars that are theirs; they are all just hanging up all on top of each other. I end up spending ages looking for a head collar that looks like it might fit, and half the time it ends up not being the right size.


This as disorganized and no more or less like any business.


vergo97 said:


> Also, is it ok to put a rug on a horse that is really dirty and a bit damp? The rugs that I put on Maggie were like that. And when I was tacking her up the saddle cloth was damp as well.


The place I took lessons from thought better of their lessons horses than this. IF I was in the 1st lesson of the day we were expected to retrieve our lesson horse from his standing stall, brush him out and tack him up, but we didn't have to search for halters, leads or tack--each horse had his own.
When I taught I owned my lesson horses. I acquired quite of bit of cheap new and good condition used tack and pads, so I could switch out wet for dry. I washed all of my English pads and aired all of my Western pads regularly. It's good to question bad animal practice.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Sorry for the post in a row, wouldn't let me add this bit in:



vergo97 said:


> This is a bit off topic, but I was just wandering if this is normal. When I arrive at the stables I have to go and get head collar and lead rope for the horse I'm riding. The horses don't have head collars that are theirs; they are all just hanging up all on top of each other. I end up spending ages looking for a head collar that looks like it might fit, and half the time it ends up not being the right size.
> 
> Also, is it ok to put a rug on a horse that is really dirty and a bit damp? The rugs that I put on Maggie were like that. And when I was tacking her up the saddle cloth was damp as well.
> 
> I'm not trying to find all the faults with the stable, I'm just genuinely wandering if it’s ok.


Well they should have their own halters.. that prevents stuff like rainrot and other stuff from spreading from horse to horse. And they should be labeled.. that's just lazy.

If the outside is dirty and damp, so long as it is a turnout blanket/rug, it can't be helped. Now if the INSIDE is dirty and damp, then yes. That's a problem.

I'm guilty of putting a slightly damp saddle pad on because it didn't dry fast enough for the lesson (my fault) but usually I don't EVER do that. They should be clean as they can and dry. But if it's clean and a little damp.. to me that's better than bone dry and dirty as ever.


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## vergo97 (Dec 23, 2010)

I would let her have a longer rein but I am told to keep shortening it up until it is about 1.5ft long which makes it worse when she decides to put her nose to the ground. I don't think they are asking just for contact because they told me that she is unbalanced so needs to lean on the rein. 

I do try asking them for help but when there are four other people in the lesson, each with their own problems its hard to get lots of attention and help. 

Maybe they think that I am advanced enough for her, but I don't think so. They did tell me she had had her back done that day and that she might be a bit sore, so maybe she was in a bad mood? A friend at school also rides Maggie and she said that she really likes Maggie. Maybe I'm not a good enough rider for her.

I wasn't raining but it had been raining earlier in the day because the ground was wet. Maybe she'd been ridden earlier that day and the saddle cloth hadn't dried yet? The saddles and saddle cloths are kept together (as in, they are not taken off/put on the horse separately they just stay together) so the saddle pad can't really dry quickly with a saddle on top of it. 

The halters don't have a colour code, you just have to find one that fits, which I'm not very good at doing 

I love brushing and picking out their feet, but I am usually told to do it as quickly as possible because they need the space I am taking up. I didn't even pick out half of Maggie's feet yesterday.

I can't remember if the whole rug or just the outside was wet, but I don't think I helped the situation by completely failing to put the rug on the right way round and making a mess of the situation.  I haven't put a rug on a horse is ages, let alone one that is really heavy and does up the neck!


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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

Maybe you should start taking private lessons. Be sure to voice your opinions without whining. Maybe after the lesson is over you could pull your instructor aside and talk to her about your concerns. I would definitely recommend having private lessons. Why don't you try having two lessons a month? One group lesson and one private lesson. This would help you a lot, it sounds like!


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Poor thing.. they literally left you hanging to dry.

I understand they're busy and everything, but putting on a blanket or flymask or whatever without any help or understanding how to do it can be dangerous :/ 

There shouldn't be this much "wiggle room" I suppose. Not saying they should hawk eye your every movement, but they should at least supervise you do it a few times until you're comfortable with it.

Unfortunately sounds like a lesson barn though :/


Is there someone that could take pictures of your riding? Is that allowed?


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## snookums (Mar 19, 2011)

I'm sure someone already mentioned this, but I would strongly recommend private lessons. If you can, find a riding instructor whom you have a good bond with, who will give you the instruction and attention that you need for those off days. There should be plenty of other people around who are willing to give you the attention and instruction that you need. Yes, I'm guilty of going through a few riding instructors (okay, 4), but the one I have now is excellent and I have no regrets dumping the old ones!


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## Scoutrider (Jun 4, 2009)

Reading the replies since this morning.... Yikes!! I would personally be putting feelers out for a new lesson barn. Perhaps I was a spoiled child and only took lessons at outstanding facilities, but this place sounds like somewhere I would not stay with for long. Doesn't sound terribly professional to me, or like there's much organization at all between the community halter pile and the grab-bag lessons. That fuss about getting the horse to actually lean on the reins is downright scary - that isn't helping them to balance, it's just making them rely on the rider to carry them instead of learning to carry themselves. That's just improper horsemanship, and it can be downright dangerous in some situations for the horse to be leaning on the rein for balance and physical support (small/inexperienced rider, heading across country at speed, jumping...). Like Skys said above, it really sounds like you're being put out to dry at this place. I'd start shopping for a better lesson barn; there are great ones out there. :wink:

Good luck!!


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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

In regards to letting the horse "hang" on the reign...I don't htink the instructor was saying that correctly..I am guessing she may have been trying to make it too basic. In order to balance the horse you do have to have steady contact with the mouth. Obviously the idea is to have contact but the horse is supposed to carry themselves, bringing their hind end up under them for the impulsion. SInce the horse is new she probably has little balance and needs the support. If you ride her again, sit deep in the saddle, use your leg to encourage her forward but set your hands to encourage her to move up into the bridle and soften her jaw. As soon as she does so, release the pressure on the reign for her reward. It is going to take time though..she won't do it immediately if she is being stubborn.

I also disagree with the arm strength. I have been riding for 30 years and my horse, if he decides to jerk his head down, can still pull me off balance if I am not expecting it but now usually only does it when the reins are relatively soft, like when I am in a two-point position.

Also agree with others. If the instructor isn't "delivering" to your needs and desires as a rider, it is not a bad thing to find a different instructor. When I lived in Louisiana I went through not only eight different instructors but three different barns in just under 8 years. Here in Maryland I found, and have stayed with, the same barn and their number of instructors for over 8 years now.


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## Gremmy (Feb 17, 2009)

I actually disagree with a lot of what's being said here in regards to the instructor and the facility. Like many others I've been in the OP's shoes. I've had countless lessons where I left the barn feeling frustrated, confused, and defeated. IMO, if you don't leave feeling like that from time to time, then you're not being challenged enough to reach your potential.

It's made me a better rider. Ponies like Maggie are a dime a dozen, and you can learn a lot from them. The OP is 14 and a novice - but not a total beginner. She is able to canter on her own, so it does not sound to me like she was put on a horse she wasn't ready for. The pony was stubborn and heavy on the forehand, but I'm not seeing anything in the OP that suggests that safety was an issue. This is the time for her to be challenged with stubborn ponies - the learning curve here can sour a well trained horse and causes many of the vices she is now tasked with dealing with. When she gets past this and is more experienced there will be a time for her to ride better trained horses to find tune her riding and learn the more complex things, like engaging the hind end, bending, and possibly jumping etc. Right now she needs to develop the coordination and muscle to be able to learn the more complex things without ruining the horse. Blessed be the obstinate yet tolerant lesson ponies like Maggie.

When I had a frustrating ride on a frustrating horse where I felt nothing was accomplished, my instructor was kind enough to put me on the same horse for the next lesson. And the next, and the next. Until I mastered that horse, and it would often end up being one of my favorites. I was lucky to have such an instructor (even though at the time I was convinced she was a demon woman), and lucky to have no-nonsense parents who made it clear that I could either hack it out with that instructor and that horse, or quit riding altogether. Many of my classmates were not so lucky, they would demand a different horse if they did not have a wonderful experience every time, and if the instructor refused then their parents would come in and insist on a change as well. Those kids always either got bored with riding, or did not progress to the level they could have. Many afraid and unwilling to try new things. If the path to becoming a strong and confident rider consisted only of positive, ego boosting experiences, then we'd all be riding in the olympics.

You pay an instructor to teach you, not for you to tell them how to teach you. By all means communicate your concerns, but do not argue, complain, or expect the instructor to comply with your wishes. You have to have faith that the instructor knows best and you have to let THEM decide what you are ready for. If you can't do that with this instructor, then you need to think good and hard about your role as a student and what you're bringing to the table. It doesn't sound like she is putting you in an unsafe situation, or being unreasonably harsh. I would not recommend switching based on what's been posted, because I would worry that the OP will gravitate towards an instructor that will coddle her.

I don't put much weight in the issue with the reins either. At this level the OP is still learning how to coordinate and balance herself, and build leg strength (and with it strengthening the core) - I would never expect an instructor to be trying to explain using one's core to a group of youngsters. The OP is frustrated, the lesson was busy, and she may have misinterpreted some things - the instructor could have been trying to explain contact, asking the OP to sit deep and lift the horse's forehand, who knows. OP, _don't try to explain it to us - talk to your instructor and clarify things with her._ There's simply not enough to go on having not been there in person, for me to assume that the instructor is teaching these kids to lean on their horse's face, and IMO it's an unfair assumption to make over the internet.

As for the halters/blankets etc, pretty typical to me. My old barn did have halters for each horse, labelled and everything, and they still ended up all over the place. With a huge lesson string with tonnes of kids coming and going and not putting things away, unless a personal groom was hired for each lesson horse I cannot fault them for being disorganized as the day wears on. We picked everything up at the end of the day and had it all organized and good to go every morning, and things still turned to chaos fairly quickly. Unless the facility keeps the halters on the horses at all times and not just for grooming/handling, it's seriously not a huge deal. Lesson ponies tend to be in close quarters anyways, so if something contagious comes up, it's gonna spread and individual halters aren't going to change that. 

Things get dirty as well this time of year, and the barn could not afford to have its own washer and dryer, but pads and blankets were washed every spring. Horrifying? Not really. These ponies aren't standing in those blankets every day, they're being groomed, worked, and the blankets have time to air out. In an area where it's wet and muddy 70% of the time, it's just not feasible to be washing everything constantly. OP, get to your lesson as early as possible to make sure you have time to find all the right things, and try to leave time afterwards as well. We paid for arena time only, tacking up and untacking was our responsibility. Hang the rug up before you ride so it has a chance to dry (don't toss it in a heap), and brush it down with a dandy brush prior to putting it back on. If it's really nasty then mention it to your instructor - same goes if you notice little scabby bumps (rain scald). If all the lesson pony blankets are quite run down, then maybe you could offer to do a fundraiser for new ones?

Around here a group lesson (that is, guaranteed to be busy and hectic every time!) runs about $60CAD - about twice what the OP is paying, so I don't think she's being robbed blind - she even has the bonus of the occasional private/semi private lesson with that price.

Hang in there OP, I know it's frustrating but what sets the good riders apart is facing the challenge instead of running from it. Discuss your confusion with your instructor - if she's busy then ask when a good time would be to talk - take FULL advantage of those quiet days and make use of that one-on-one time with your instructor - that is the time to ask questions and clarify things. Give them and the horse the benefit of the doubt, and give it a chance. Now, if 6 months down the road you have not progressed at all, then it may be time to consider finding a new barn/instructor.


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## furbabymum (Dec 28, 2011)

We switched horses every couple weeks when I took lessons at CSU. I got this really "bad" horse that I was just not a fan of. Hard to catch, won't listen, etc. Oh I used to hate that horse. Was excellent for me though, it's not always sunshine and rainbows.


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## mystykat (Dec 4, 2011)

Corporal said:


> When my lesson horses didn't respond to to appropriate student cue I would cue them with a whip. I always spent my time teaching walking the middle of the ring.
> There is a safety issue and it is appropriate for a good lesson horse to be slower at taking cues so as to teach you, a begginer, the standard for cues. Even Alois Podjawsky talked about some of his horses being fussy about responding to cues, in "My Horses, My Teachers."
> If you really LOVE horses, they are doing you a favor. I have a friend about my age (54yo) who spent his youth taking lessons, than schooling hunters at his local stable--never owned his own horse. He burned out at age 18 (popular age for burning out.) Now he doesn't ride at all. I've owned horses for 26 years now.) =D


 
I'm not sure how most of this corresponds with what you quoted.... haha  
I hope I get to own horses for that long (and longer), 19 more years to go!!


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## BaileyJo (Aug 23, 2011)

vergo97 said:


> My mum seems to think that all lessons at all stables will be like this and that the only way to avoid this is to actually own a horse (which is never going to happen). Surely not all stables have horses like this though?


Just wanted to mention that you can have a bad lesson on your own horse in the best of stables. 

Yesterday I had the WORST lesson I have ever had. I even got bucked off for the first time. Horse wouldn't go forward, I couldn't get balanced, couldn't get her hips bent, hands all over the place. She was like riding a sewing machine with her head on a teeter totter. Then my instructor told me it was my fault. What!?

He was right. I chalked it up to a good dose of humility and a challenge to myself. BTW, I own the horse and the stable is pretty good. 

Hang in there and get back on.


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## SmallTownGypsy (Dec 17, 2011)

I went through the same thing with an instructor once. She kept telling me to tighten up the reins, tighten up the reins. My hands were literally like a foot from the horses mouth and naturally, he would slow down because of the intense back pressure on the bit. This was followed by her screaming at me, "CRYSTAL, DO NOT LET THAT HORSE SLOW DOWN! KEEP HIM GOING!" I felt absolutely horrible. I didn't go back many times after that. The horse I was on that day was one that I adored and I felt awful doing that to him. 

She also had put me on a new horse my first time cantering. I was told by friend to prepare for a rocking chair feel. Oh my god, this horse's canter was horrible! It jolted me so hard I grabbed her mane to keep from falling off. I got yelled at (common thing at that barn) "LET GO OF THAT MANE RIGHT NOW!" 

That was years ago, but I'm glad ever day that I didn't spend more time there. I would have hated to have become like my instructor.


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## vergo97 (Dec 23, 2010)

Mudpie: It wouldn't really be worth having two lessons a week because private and group cost the same so I wouldn't have to pay more money to have a private. I would really like a private lesson but they don't seem to like doing them. I could ask at my next lesson if I could have a private though.

Sky: I think they expect me to know more than I do, especially the instructor that I had for that lesson. Most girls my age know what they are doing so I suppose they think I should too. One of my lessons I was being told to jump and when I told my instructor I hadn't jumped in months and even then I was being taught badly (at a different stables) she looked surprised and said that I should have a go any way. I think that was a one-off though because I was in a group with more advanced people, but it was still scary! 

I think taking pictures is allowed so I could ask my mum to take some pictures next lesson. I don't have any pictures of me riding at the moment.

There are three instructors at the stables, and I never know which one of them I'm going to have. One of them I don't get on with, one of them is ok and the other is really good but I don't have her often. She normally charges more because she is a good teacher, so I usually only have her when the other instructors can't teach me. 

I am not really supposed to give them rein as a reward. One, because they apparently need to lean on it and two, I am told to have the reins so short if I gave them any rein I would be leaning over their neck. 

Gremmy: I understand what you are saying, and I would appreciate trouble horses if I knew what to do, but the thing is I don't. For example, with the cantering. I normally struggle going into a canter on a good horse so I had no hope on Maggie. They keep telling me to do things that I _Know _I'm supposed to do but I just _can't, _and then they won't even let me have another attempt at cantering. 

It's not like I have ever been on a really good horse anyway, the other horse I normally ride kicks out when I tack him up, won't let me pick out his feet and is really hard to slow down when cantering and sometimes bucks during the transition. At the stables I used to go to the horses were so dead to the leg it would take three fast trots around the school to get them to go into a canter for about 5 strides. 

I would never argue with my instructor, I'm really shy and tend just to do everything they tell me to, hence why I go on here and ask after the lesson! I hate confrontation and I find it really awkward saying "I don't want to ride this horse because she doesn't listen to me". 

I get to my lesson 15 mins early to go and tack up, but sometimes I don't even know which horse I am on until 5 mins till the lesson because people haven't written it down and there is no one to ask. At the end of the lesson I 

I find it hard to find a time to talk to my instructor because she is so busy helping the younger children and rushing around trying to do everything. 

I think the main thing I dislike is the group that I am in, but they seem to think it is fine. I don't like being in a group with people half my age who will start to cry if one thing goes wrong. I just don't know what to say to the stables.

SmallTownGypsy: That is exactly what I mean! I don't like my reins being too tight but I have to have them like that.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Some pictures and whatnot would really help you out in the long run, so if you can snap a few that'd be awesome!

I totally get you, though, cranking down the reins teaches the horse nothing but to gape their mouth or do something else to avoid the pressure. We want horses to seek that contact of the rein, not shun away from it. Which is why I get so wound up when people say "shorten the rein!!" no.... push the horse forward into the bridle. Grrrrr


Either way, they shouldn't expect you to know everything. Yeah they should take you out of your comfort zone sometimes but if you are having trouble cueing for canter, they shouldn't make you jump.. that's so dangerous :/

But just as BaileyJo said, you can have the worst lesson in the best barn on your own horse. It happens, but those lessons should always always teach you something!


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## vergo97 (Dec 23, 2010)

In suppose you can have really bad lessons on your own horse, but at least you know their personality and what they are normally like. I don't know if Maggie is like this because of me or because she just can't be bothered at the end of the day or if she doesn't know what to do. I only spend 1 hour with horses a week, so I want to feel like I've gained something from it. 


The horses at the stables often open their mouths, is this because the reins are too short? Looking at peoples profile pictures, their reins seem far longer than I'm allowed to have mine. I get told that they are like "washing lines" if they allow the horse to move their head at all. 

Because when I'm riding my reins are so short, could this cause the horses to want an extra long rein when we are in halt? Whenever I halt Maggie and Charlie always want a really long rein and keep pulling their head down If I don't give it to them


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## vergo97 (Dec 23, 2010)

I've just got back from my lesson, and I told the stables that I can't make the next two lessons to give me some time to try out another stables. My mum is beginning to see how this stables are not the best place for me. 

The lesson was ok, but I still think there could be better stables out there. I was on a horse I've never been on before and it was going ok until we (there were three other people in the lesson) were told that we were going to canter a 20 metre circle. I've never done that before, and I struggle with doing a good canter normally, and I was doing this on a horse I haven't been on before. I was trotting in the circle and then give a squeeze to go into canter. The horse (Jess) went into a really fast trot then lurched into a canter throwing me off balance a bit and I lost my stirrup. I went back to walk and again, but holding onto the neck strap. It was ok then, but I wasn't able to control the direction very well.

Then it was another girl’s turn and she managed to get into canter but then the horse she was on started bucking wildly while still cantering towards the fence around the school. We could all see what was going to happen. With every buck she was tipping further forwards and then she got flung of and wacked her head against the fence. She was wearing a helmet but it looked like it hurt and she was crying. The horse that bucked her off ran over to where the rest of us were and the horse another girl was on who was next to me started bucking as well. She managed to stay on though because they were not huge bucks.

 Another person who works at the stables, Ella, got onto the horse that had bucked the girl off and tried to canter him, but he was still bucking and cantering really awkwardly. I don’t know whether he was in pain or was just being annoying, but Ella was yelling at him and kicking him. When a horse has bucked someone off before and someone else gets on them, they are usually fine so I don’t know what was wrong with him. Eventually they swapped the tack he had on and after that he was better. He still bucked a bit at first but then he was cantering fine. 

While Ella was riding him though, my instructor was still trying to teach our lesson. It was really hard because she kept saying Ella would ride around us, but the horse was bucking and kicking out so it was a bit scary. 

The girl that got bucked off was fine, she sat in the middle of the school for a bit and then another horse was tacked up for her and she had a canter on him.

It was a bit of a chaotic lesson!


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## SmallTownGypsy (Dec 17, 2011)

Oh my good lord! Run from that place as fast as you can, girl! In all the time I took lessons, I saw one person fall off and it was understandable. She was riding around the arena and the trainer's husband came around the corner of the open door at the end, just as she got to that spot. The horse spooked sideways since there was suddenly a human right next to them, and my friend went off the other side. And OMG, the trainer all but castrated her man right then and there for that! lol 
Horses that go randomly bucking around??? Hell no!


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## vergo97 (Dec 23, 2010)

My instructor said that she hadn't seen the horse buck in the last three years, so she doesn't know why he chose today to buck. 

My mum is going to email another stables to ask them about prices and hopefully I will be able to try a lesson there to see if they are better.

I really hope this is not normal lesson horse behaviour, my mum was wandering if this is what all lessons are like, but I said that other people have had lessons for years on horses that don't buck and that do as they're told.


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## vergo97 (Dec 23, 2010)

I hope that the other stables are nice, the stables I go to at the moment tend to say/do things that aren't nice without even realising. Like my lesson today, when I had finished my cantering I was told what positition I need to be in _again_, even though I know what position to be in, I know what I'm _supposed_ to do, I just can't do it in practise. Then I was told that I just need to listen to what I'm being told and do what I'm told to and I'll be fine. But I do listen, I always really try to do what I'm supposed to but I just _can't _do it. :-(


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## Gremmy (Feb 17, 2009)

Sounds like the horse had a saddle fit issue, perhaps a previous student damaged it somehow. Kudos to the barn for identifying it and correcting it within the same day. I will still defend this barn based off of what is posted here - this sounds like a very large, very busy lesson barn. There's good and bad when it comes to big lesson barns, but it's not black and white. 

Beginners are hard on lesson horses, and very often they get sour. Hence the barn girl getting on the horse that bucked to tune him up - at which point they discovered the underlying pain issue and acted accordingly. That's awesome, seriously. Could things have been handled better? Possibly, they could have checked for pain first, but for the horse to not have an issue for 3 years and suddenly start bucking, you seriously cannot condemn a lesson barn for that. Horses are never 100% predictable, and things can happen and you have to always be prepared to take that risk before mounting up. Preventative measures can and should be taken (as they seemed to have been within reason - the girl had a helmet, it was a closed arena, she cantered afterwards on another horse and therefore it can be reasonably assumed that she was not asked to do something beyond her abilities, horse was checked after the incident and issue was resolved to prevent future incidents), but they don't eliminate all risk.

OP, I am not going to judge your instructor or comment on what instructions you's quoted from her - I haven't seen you ride, and therefore don't know why she's saying what she's saying and cannot judge whether or not it is correct.

Riding is hard. It is not as simple as being told what to do and doing it - I can't think of a single new exercise that my instructor gave me directions to that I didn't completely muck up the first few times (minimum! people spend their entire lives perfecting 20meter circles!). You cannot be told how to ride, you cannot be shown how to ride, you learn by doing - and that means by being told/shown how to do it, attempting it and likely accomplishing nothing, being told how to do it again, and trying again, repeat 1000000x as necessary. Sometimes the instructor needs to reword things for you to understand what they're saying (and you need to ASK for this, they are not mind readers) and sometimes after hearing the same thing a zillion times you get it. Eventually it just clicks, but you can't expect this to happen right away. 

Please stop worrying about being able to do these things so quickly and _just have fun_. It's going to take practice, and while these exercises seem simple, they're not. As a beginner you have a lot of things going on - learning to ride different horses (which as you've now seen, is like learning how to ride all over again with each new horse at this level), developing a center of balance and learning to use your body - I'll tell you right now that until you build enough muscle through practice, it doesn't matter how well you comprehend the instructions if your body hasn't caught up yet, as well as actually being taught the exercises and maneuvers that the lesson actually consists of.

If I were to make any suggestion, it would be to get private lessons. I was only able to afford group lessons, and nothing you've described is new or unusual to me. It isn't the best environment to learn, you have limited one on one time with the instructor, the group progresses at different rates so even if everyone was at the same level initially, it can change very quickly and the instructor is tasked with accommodating everyone, and the horses by nature are not always consistent either. In that environment, you do learn, and you can become a very good rider, but it can take longer, and it's often the "School of hard knocks". If you can afford private lessons instead, get them. Don't assume group lessons elsewhere will be different, I'm all the way in Canada and if your sig didn't say otherwise I would have suspected you were talking about my old lesson barn!

Best of luck OP, stick with it and just have fun.


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## vergo97 (Dec 23, 2010)

I do see what you are saying and maybe all stables are like this and the only way to have the best experience is to have your own horse and have private lessons.

I'm not saying the stables are awful for what happened that lesson, but as I have been bucked of and seen at least two people be bucked off and then I hear of people on here who say they have never seen anything like that, I don't know what too think.

I'm still probably going to try out a lesson at another stables just to see what another stables is like if nothing else. 

I'm not expecting riding to be easy but I do think that I am being told to do things that i'm not confortable doing, like cantering in a circle when I can't even canter properly going large. 

I find it hard to have fun when I am being rushed to tack up and prevented from grooming the horse I am riding properly, and then having to do things that I am really scared of doing in my lessons, and being with a group of people that are a higher level than me (so I am expected to keep up with them) and younger. 

I would love to have private lessons, and I would jump at the chance if I could have a private lesson, but this stables doesn't do that. They don't like doing private lessons to people that aren't beginners. 

I don't want to seem like a really grumpy, ungrateful person but I am struggling to really look forward to my lessons at the moment :?


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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

Don't feel discouraged about trying to find another lesson barn. If you aren't comfortable with an instructor it isn't going to do your riding confidence or competence any good. I am going to go out on a limb here, since I dn't know your current instructor, and say that from what I am reading, the instructor doesn't want to "teach" but prefers riders who are more advanced and don't need as much instruction. Some people are better suited towards beginners or nervous riders while others can't teach at that level and are better with the more advanced and confident riders. It isn't necessarily a bad thing but when they get to a lesson they really don't like to teach it shows in mannerisms and patience levels. even if they try to hide it.

A good instructor will always take your confidence level into account and will know how much to push to get you past your nerves but will also know when to ease back a bit. As was indicated earlier, riding other types of horses isn't a bad thing..it helps build your skill level, however, if you aren't learning anything and are just getting frustrated, that isn't good either.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

The more I read, the more I really dislike where you're at.. :/ that's not a good environment to be in... to learn in.


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## vergo97 (Dec 23, 2010)

I don't know whether it is because she likes teaching more advanced people or if she just doesn't like teaching me because I haven't been riding since I was young and I don't seem to connect or fit in there. All the other people in my group are really friendly with her and know all the horses and what they are doing, and then there's me who's shy and doesn't know anyone well.

I think the instructor is trying to have all of us doing the same thing in the lesson but the other girls can do more than me. Maybe she just assumes that I can do what they can do because I'm older.

I really hated cantering in a circle and I had tears in my eyes when she was telling me that I would be able to do it if I just listened to her. My mum is going to phone up the other stables this weekend.


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## vergo97 (Dec 23, 2010)

This is a bit off topic but I was just wandering what "posting off your feet" is. I've just seen a post about it and I don't understand how else you are supposed to post. To rise up don't you have to push up from somewhere? I can't post without stirrups, but then I only had one go for about 2 minutes though.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Vergo97, posting off of your feet means instead of using your hips and going with the upward motion you push from your feet. (remember when you're trotting and you get pushed up and then gravity pulls you back down?) well instead of letting THAT happen, you push from your tippy toes in order to get out of the saddle. 

Your legs stay the same, (long and stretched down) your hips and seat change.

Does that make sense?

~~~~~

As for the cantering... urgh girl I had such a terrible time today. I was in the outdoor arena and it was sloshy and I was scared.. my horse was being a jackhammer and I was actually scared. Pushing him to keep on the rail in a canter, it was stressful. I didn't want to be cantering but I did it anyway and we ended on a good note. 

Sometimes you feel defeated and you don't like how something is.. but you have to push past it. Learn to find all the good little things in every big ol frustrating mess. 

Cantering on a circle seems hard, but you can do it! Think.. inside leg to outside rein.


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## vergo97 (Dec 23, 2010)

I think I understand... How would you do rising trot without stirrups though?


I do think I'll be able to a circle in canter eventually, I just want to be able to canter around the school first. I had never ridden the horse before and then I was expected to do something I am really scared of doing, and the horse early was not good at transitions...

I also ham constantly told to shorten up my reins. I had no bend in my elbow and the horse could not move her head. :? My reins get looser a few minutes after my instructor has told me to shorten them, I don't do it on purpose, it just feels more natural to have them a bit longer but then I get told to shorten, shorten, shorten them again.


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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

vergo97 said:


> I think I understand... How would you do rising trot without stirrups though?.


When posting you don't post from your irons..they are only there as sort of a supporting "shelf." As SKy indicated, the leg stays long but you are absorbing the up and down motion of the trot by moving your hips forward..note the difference between forward and up. Riders just learning the post will hear, rise up and down in the saddle..this gets the motion in their head and gets them used to the rythym of the horse. As they advance, a rider tends to hear more of, don't post so high, come forward with the hip and sit softly. You will find that as your leg legthens, you will actually notice that you are posting from your calf. That is why you can post without irons..it is a great balance builder as well as calf muscle builder 

If you can, watch a more advanced lesson and take note of the foot. The foot of a person posting properly will have a nearly completely stationary foot; you won't see any mopvement or just barely movement just from the action of the horse...one who is using their irons in order to push up will have a foot that constantly moves in the up beat portion of the post. You will see the iron come forwards as they push off.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

You had a good lesson. You are just picking out all the negatives. You need these types of horses which will teach you far more the the old school master. Yes on the school master you can learn correctness, but the others build confidence and skills. I was at a show with a horse that was overwhelmed with it all. I was riding him at the trot, when I had his attention, to warm him up when a gal rode past and referred to him as psycho. I offered if she'd like to try him. She promptly refused. I then realized that her skills were limited to riding a horse trained to go around an arena at w/t/c and that's all she could do. PS When the barn is busy, the coach is under a lot of pressure to keep things running smoothly. Try to cut her a little slack by seeing her side of it. (put yourself in her shoes)


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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

Saddlebag said:


> You had a good lesson. You are just picking out all the negatives. You need these types of horses which will teach you far more the the old school master. Yes on the school master you can learn correctness, but the others build confidence and skills. I was at a show with a horse that was overwhelmed with it all. I was riding him at the trot, when I had his attention, to warm him up when a gal rode past and referred to him as psycho. I offered if she'd like to try him. She promptly refused. I then realized that her skills were limited to riding a horse trained to go around an arena at w/t/c and that's all she could do. PS When the barn is busy, the coach is under a lot of pressure to keep things running smoothly. Try to cut her a little slack by seeing her side of it. (put yourself in her shoes)


Agreed to a point but the problem is that the rider has to have the ability, confidence and riding level to handle a more advanced horse. If a student is overhorsed, they aren't going to learn anything. Some take longer than others to work up to that point but the idea is to progress them form the schoolmaasters to the slightly more challenging to the more challenging in turn. They can't go from schoolmaster to nearly completely green (or spooky or just plain stubborn or obnoxious) in one change. 

As for skills to handle a, forgive the term, nutcase, not necessarily. I have the knowledge and riding ability to handle a hot horse..what I no longer have is the confidence due to a bad fall a few years back. While I don't need a dead quiet horse, I prefer one that isn't going to have a Dr Jekyll/Mr Hyde personality due to conditions and you won't find me in any way shape or form getting on a horse who is acting out like one. Now, on the flip side, I have made similar remarks to people like the girl did to you but it is in fun and not criticism. More along the lines of, he looks like he has energy....psycho is a horse who is bucking with all four feet in the air and trying to kill the rider. I have the greatest respect for someone who gets on a hot horse and does well; I just no longer have the desire to join that particular "club" .


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## vergo97 (Dec 23, 2010)

So with the rising trot, you grip with your calf then? I get told in my lessons sometimes that I need to stop moving my leg when I post, is that because I'm posting off my feet? 

Saddlebag: Is this what lessons are like then? Horses that buck and that don't let you pick out their feet and that won't stay on the track? I know that its good to ride horses that are challenging, but these horses are too challenging. I don't think I have ever been on a school master horse, I've been on really dead to the leg horses that refuse to do anything (at my old stables), horses that buck, kick out when being tacked up, won't listen to my leg, won't listen to the rein, are overly sensitive to everything (a rescue horse that proceeded to buck me off about 10 mins into the lesson) and I've been bitten. If I was more experienced and knew how to stop these things from happening I would, but I'm not and I can't. It sounds like you can handle awkward horses and that's great, but I can't. 

Thanks for understanding, tlkng1


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

vergo, the skills will come. Ask your coach how to deal with with the problematic horse. Your safety is her responsibility. Perhaps she needs to be reminded of that.


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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

vergo97 said:


> So with the rising trot, you grip with your calf then? I get told in my lessons sometimes that I need to stop moving my leg when I post, is that because I'm posting off my feet?


Correct..you don't need your feet to post.  Use your irons only as a platform on which to rest your foot and not as a push off to get yourself out of the saddle.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

vergo97 said:


> I think I understand... How would you do rising trot without stirrups though?


Yep you can definitely post without stirrups.. though at first it feels like you are just bumping around up there (I'm talking bareback not in a saddle without irons) but you'll eventually be so balanced that it'll be just like having your stirrups (though you still won't use them to post, they're just there for support.



vergo97 said:


> I do think I'll be able to a circle in canter eventually, I just want to be able to canter around the school first. I had never ridden the horse before and then I was expected to do something I am really scared of doing, and the horse early was not good at transitions...
> 
> I also ham constantly told to shorten up my reins. I had no bend in my elbow and the horse could not move her head. :? My reins get looser a few minutes after my instructor has told me to shorten them, I don't do it on purpose, it just feels more natural to have them a bit longer but then I get told to shorten, shorten, shorten them again.


Well cantering on a circle helps the horse get the correct lead. What scares you about it? Maybe we can help you work through that. 

Yeah reins tend to wiggle loose.. maybe there's a reason she tells you to keep shortening them. I know yesterday when I had my lesson, my horse was on a short rein most of the time. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it can be if there are harsh hands on the other end. 

Move her head, how?



vergo97 said:


> So with the rising trot, you grip with your calf then? I get told in my lessons sometimes that I need to stop moving my leg when I post, is that because I'm posting off my feet?


You shouldn't grip, ever ever ever. You merely let the horse lift you up. You tighten your abs, relax your hips and seat, and let the horse carry you. It'll be rough at first, but you'll get it in time! Just need to develop that balance and muscle memory.



vergo97 said:


> Saddlebag: Is this what lessons are like then? Horses that buck and that don't let you pick out their feet and that won't stay on the track? I know that its good to ride horses that are challenging, but these horses are too challenging. I don't think I have ever been on a school master horse, I've been on really dead to the leg horses that refuse to do anything (at my old stables), horses that buck, kick out when being tacked up, won't listen to my leg, won't listen to the rein, are overly sensitive to everything (a rescue horse that proceeded to buck me off about 10 mins into the lesson) and I've been bitten. If I was more experienced and knew how to stop these things from happening I would, but I'm not and I can't. It sounds like you can handle awkward horses and that's great, but I can't.


Five thumbs up (yes I need some help here guys and gals!) because I'm glad that you're honest with yourself and honest to others. Nothing more dangerous than a person that thinks they can handle anything.

But no, lessons are about learning basics. Sometimes when you get to a point where you're ready for more, they put you on a horse that needs a different approach to test your skills (and sometimes to just give that horse exercise.) 

The best horse that I rode is the one I'm riding now. He tests me, he challenges my abilities, some days he'll be an absolute peach and other days he's a naughty monkey. But that's because I'm ready for more and can handle more. 

In time you will be able to handle more too, I agree with this last comment though..



Saddlebag said:


> vergo, the skills will come. Ask your coach how to deal with with the problematic horse. Your safety is her responsibility. Perhaps she needs to be reminded of that.


You need to feel safe when you ride. Feeling scared means being pushed too hard too fast. You need to be prepared.. and it sounds like you aren't having any help with what, which is quite frankly sad  

Don't let riding horses scare you.. because then you'll struggle with confidence on a horse's back and as you age, it gets progressively worse.

There is nothing to be afraid of, breathe... you can do this. What helps me when I canter on a circle, focus on the middle, slightly turn my upper body (slighty!) so my outside shoulder is ahead of my inside by a hair, my outside seatbone is slightly more advanced, and focus on the center. Imagine a huge totem pole in the center of that circle and stare at the top of the totem pole. Shoulders back, move with your hips. Weight to the outside of the circle, and smile! You can do this!


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## vergo97 (Dec 23, 2010)

I'll try posting not using my feet next time I have a lesson. I haven't ridden bareback before, I think I would probably fall off going any faster than a walk!

With the cantering the problems are mainly going into the canter and then steering to keep going round in a circle. The horse I was riding wasn't good at going into canter which made me nervous before we had even got into it. She would do a really fast running trot and then suddenly lurch into canter. I am awful at sitting trot so that wasn't helping me, and I would be flung forward and then get yelled at to lean back. I lost my stirrup once when she was doing the really fast trot and I cannot trot without my stirrups so that was scary, especially with her going to fast and I was getting told to pull back on the reins but it was hard to do and to keep my balance. 

I have never really had to steer while cantering so its hard to do that and concentrate on all the other things I need to be doing, like leaning back and keeping the horse going at a constant speed. I am normally told to have my outside rein shorter than the other when going around the school, but with cantering in a circle I was having to control the steering and there were three other horses to avoid crashing into. The circle ended up getting really small and I felt like I was leaning in far too much and then the horse I was on went back into trot. Her canter was really bouncy as well so I was just trying to stay on. After that disaster I got asked by my instructor if I wanted to fall off, and I said no and then she said "well lean back then!". I found it all really overwhelming with all these things to try and do.


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## vergo97 (Dec 23, 2010)

Are you not supposed to grip with anything then? I get told by my instructor when I say that I struggle with cantering that I need to grip onto the saddle with my thighs for grim life. 

My mum said that I most likely won't be able to ride a great horse unless I had my own, and that is probably true. If you have your own horse, you know what they are like and how to ride them.

I got told that the horse I rode is quite green and unbalanced and that is why she rushes in her trot before cantering. I didn't get told how to stop it, just that I could hold onto the neckstrap.

When horses trot, aren't they supposed to be able to move their head a bit? when I said about moving her head, that is what I meant.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Yeah that sounds like a huge disaster. I've been there... except I had the whole arena to myself and then someone came in, my horse proceeded to travel nearly sideways at the canter to try and run them down. It was crazy.. 

It can be over whelming to canter when you don't have the rail to guide you, or when others are busy cantering and you're trying to avoid them or whatnot.

Have you found any other possible lesson barns that could teach you privately? I think you need it because the way this is going.. you're going to keep feeling more and more "out there." 

It isn't the leaning that will get you on the ground, it's looking down and sending all your balance downward.. which will happen to your hiney if you keep on looking down. Leaning forward, so long as you aren't scrunching your legs up then you should be ok though it's better to sit back.

Just reading your posts though, it sounds very overwhelming..


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

vergo97 said:


> Are you not supposed to grip with anything then? I get told by my instructor when I say that I struggle with cantering that I need to grip onto the saddle with my thighs for grim life.
> 
> *The way I ride, which is in the style of deep seat, and when I post, I don't grip. If you grip then you get poppy like popcorn and start slamming back down. Think about a superbouncyball. You drop it pretty softly.. and it comes back softly. You lob it down, and it comes back 3x as hard and probably might hit you in the face, which would hurt.
> 
> ...



I hope I'm making sense.


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## skittlesfirehawk (Mar 5, 2011)

I've read some posts and skimmed others.If this happens all the time with the instructor being rude then i suggest you move barns.Ive moved barns 4 times and ill be moving again all for different reasons but it happens.In those 4 barns I've never had to hunt for a halter and blankets if needed were always hung on the horses stall.i would always go a half an hr earlier to my lessons so i could take my time to groom.when i get a lisence that changed to an hr early.i don't know if that a feasible for you or not but it would give you more time to groom and get your horse ready with out being rushed.


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## vergo97 (Dec 23, 2010)

When going in a circle, I am told to look into the middle of the circle, so maybe that is what is making me feel unbalanced? 

My mum has emailed the other stables (White Gates Stables, Stud & young stock for sale - Brant Broughton, Lincolnshire) to ask about their lessons so if I move there I will ask if I can have private lessons (if they are not really expensive). 

I don't know how the stables chooses the horses that people ride, but its like they're trying to put me on every single one! Other people in my lesson seem to be on ones that they know but I have been on a different one every lesson for about 5 lessons. 

I would love it if I knew whivh headcollar goes on which horse. It's so difficult to try and find one that fits the horse. 

I get to my lesson 15 mins early (thats the earliest I can get there) but often I don't know which horse I am on because no one has written it down or I don't know the names of the horses. I hate getting told to get tacked up when I am half way through picking out the horses feet. 

Also, when there is mud on the horses face, should I try to brush it off? One instructor said that if the horse doesn't like their head being brushed then I should just leave it, but another one was asking why I hadn't brushed the horses face when I was in the school. Some of the horses try to get away from me when I brush their face, and sometimes the brush doesn't get it off. I always choose the softest brush because once I got told the brush I was using was too harsh and I don't really know the different uses for different brushes.


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## SmallTownGypsy (Dec 17, 2011)

It sounds like you need to learn some basic horse care before moving on. Perhaps the new stable will spend more time with you on that. It shouldn't take long to pick out a horse's feet. Unless the horse is being a jerk, that part shouldn't take more than 2-3 minutes. At my stables we were required to get there 15 minutes early, just for the purpose of grabbing our horse, picking it's feet, brushing it down, tacking it up, and walking it a bit before rechecking cinch. All that was easily accomplished in that 15 minutes. Of course, we had organization and all the horse's had their halter outside their stall or were wearing them.
As for mud on the horse's face, if you have time, brush it off. If not, leave it. A horse's face is very sensitive so if the mud is stuck on I wouldn't bother brushing it off. It should be washed off. Too much rubbing might irritate the face. 
Just my thoughts.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Vergo, personally when I do anything in a circle I feel a lot safer looking towards and middle (but also up. not down) but it could just be me?

I just hope these other places work out for you and you start learning comfortably.


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## vergo97 (Dec 23, 2010)

When we're going in a circle, I meant that we're told to look into the middle at the floor, but next time I will look up.

I can usually pick out feet quite quick, I get told not to bother picking out the horses feet if they have a reputation for being difficult. But when I get to the stables 15 mins before the lesson it will take me 5-10 mins to find out what horse I am on/what head collar will fit (because there is no one around that I can ask and I don't want to interrupt the lesson going on) and then once I have got the horse out of their stall and got the hoof pick and brush, I only have a few mins before the other lesson has finished and about 4-5 horses are wanting to be untacked. There isn't enough room for all the horses in the stable area so all the people that are in my lesson are told to stop what we're doing, quickly tack up and get into the school. There is probably a lot more I can learn though with grooming, so I wouldn't object to the new stables wanting to go through things with me. I suppose I might take a bit longer than usual because I'm not very confident with what I'm doing and I don't want to do things wrong. 

When you say you would walk the horse, is that like warming them up? We don't have to do that :? And what is "rechecking cinch"? 

Thanks for the advice with brushing the face, I don't want to hurt the horses because I know its a sensitive area, I just didn't know whether it would rub when they have the bridle on like saddles can do if they have a dirty back.


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## SmallTownGypsy (Dec 17, 2011)

vergo97 said:


> When you say you would walk the horse, is that like warming them up? We don't have to do that :? And what is "rechecking cinch"?


Not to warm them up, but some horses have a tendency to "blow up" when the cinch/girth is being tightened. "Blow up" means one of two things, either the horse takes in a deep breath or they tense up. The result is the same. The stomach is bigger than it would be normally. A couple minutes of walking them around calms them down. That's when we would recheck to see if the cinch needed to be tightened up more or not. Some horses do it, most don't, but it's always good practice to check, IMO.


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## vergo97 (Dec 23, 2010)

I re-check the girth once the horse is in the school, so a simular thing to what you do.


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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

vergo97 said:


> When we're going in a circle, I meant that we're told to look into the middle at the floor, but next time I will look up.


Uh, the last thing you should be doing is looking down...your body tends to follow your line of sight. You can turn your head a little and look around the circle but you should never be looking down.

I am getting motion sick here just thinking about looking into the middle at the floor while doing a circle..reminds me of an aircraft doing the same thing...going in a circle while descending.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Looking down = your body gravity will point down = you WILL fall down!!!!!!!

Look in the middle, high up. Like you're talking to someone that's 6 ft tall


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## vergo97 (Dec 23, 2010)

I'll look up next time I canter in a circle then 

My mum phoned up the White Gate stables a few days ago and explained that we are looking to possibly take lessons there and that we are not happy with the group I am in at my currant stables. They explained that they dislike group lessons which is why they only do private lessons. They sound good but we can't book a lesson at the moment because it's snowy and they don't want to have to cancel it, but once the snow has cleared then they will phone up so we can book a day.

Also, my mum was talking to her friend’s daughter and she has two horses and that she used to board them at the stables I go to at the moment, but she moved them to White Gate because she was not happy at the other stables, so I'm glad it’s not just me who is wanting to move.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Fingers crossed for you, chicadee 

Group lessons are great for little kids that are starting out.. and maybe if you're doing drill team or want some variety now and then. But all the time? It's not helpful at all in my eyes.


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## vergo97 (Dec 23, 2010)

I had my first lesson at White Gate today. It was really good, and it was great to have a private lesson. My instructor said that my leg is in the perfect position and that it has obviously been drilled into me to have it like that, but sometimes I need to not keep it so ridged to be able to squeeze/kick a bit. My upper half on the other hand needs to not lean forward so much and be more stable, and I need to stop sticking my elbows out! It was nice to be told about the things I do right, that hasn't happened for months. I was on one ploddy horses but he was also nice and responsive, although he was a bit small. The stirrups were too small for my feet to go through fully so I was posting off my toes not the balls of my feet, but hopefully they will move me to a different horse now they know what level I am at.

The lesson felt like it went so quickly being only half an hour, but I think I will learn more though because they are private lessons. My instructor, who also owns the stables, said that she only does private lessons because she feels that people don't learn as much in group lessons. She said she once worked at a stable that did lessons in groups of up to 12 people in them and she doesn’t think its right. 

The other downside is that she said that the horse will already be tacked up when I arrive for my lesson, so that means I won't have the bonding time with grooming, picking out feet and tacking up  I suppose it’s worth it for better lessons but I feel that I won't really know my way around the stables if I never have to tack up as I will never go into the tack room and know where things are. 

I was surprised at how good my cantering was on the horse I was riding, but he did have a really nice trot to sit too so that made the transition easier. It’s normally the going into canter that throws me off balance but because I didn't have a really bouncy trot to sit to first I did quite well. The horse was also smaller as well, so the strides weren't as big. Another good thing was that I was allowed to keep my reins a length I felt comfortable with and I wasn't told to shorten them.

They said that they do pony days every Saturday which involves catching horses, tacking up, 3-4 hours riding (lesson and hack), poo-picking fields and mucking out which would be great but its £35 (or £25 if I go every week) so I can't do that a lot, but I might to one in a few weeks just to see what it's like. I've never mucked out or poo-picked a field before so I would like to be able to do that one day.

I'm booked in for another lesson on Wednesday which should be good as well.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

How wonderful!!! I'm glad it went so well 

Yeah tacking up is a huge bonding thing, but think about it this way. You're going to be learning so much in 30 minutes. Maybe you could take his tack off when you're done? Maybe they'd let you do that.. or maybe you could volunteer there or work there? Many possibilities! Maybe she's got horses for lease there.


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## vergo97 (Dec 23, 2010)

Ok, now things have got a little more complicated.


My mum phoned up Newark Equestrian (the place that I have been going to) and was telling them that I have had a lesson at White Gate and that we weren't too happy about the group I was in. Mum said that White gate was offering private lessons and we felt that would be better for me.

Christine (the person who owns the stables) said that she really didn't want to see me go but that she also felt that the group I'm in isn't suited for me. She said that they can do private lessons (which they had never mentioned before) and that it would be £30 for her to teach me or £25 for one of the other instructors. She said that if I wanted to do a group lesson there is a group of people aged 12-13 that have a lesson on Sundays that are a roughly my ability, but they have started doing small jumps.

Christine also said that White Gate have unqualified instructors and that were illegally set up (or something like that) and my mum said that Christine was giving the impression that she really doesn't like that stables.

I am now booked into a lesson on Sunday at 2:00 with the group of people about my age to see if that works for me, or if that doesn't I could have private lessons every other week.

Christine said that she doesn't do lessons for half an hour because she doesn't feel that you can get enough done in that time, and I can see her point as it doesn't feel very long at all.

So now my mum is probably going to cancel the lesson on Wednesday and I'm not sure what to think.

If I can have private lessons with Christine that would be really good, but I wouldn't be able to do that weekly, so I wouldn't be riding much at all. We've discovered that White Gate isn’t qualified and when we were booking a lesson there, their diary was completely empty which my mum thought was a bit strange. 

I don't know what to think! Would you go back to Newark Equestrian and have hour lessons in a group, have private hour lessons every other week with a good instructor, or go to White Gate weekly which aren’t qualified and I wouldn’t be able to do tacking up but it would be private but only for half an hour.

My mum does prefer Newark Equestrian and now Christine knows that we are not happy with the current group and is going to change some things, I think that I will probably be staying there, but I don’t know what sort of lessons I will be having there. There is also the problem with horses, but maybe that is what all horses are like. My mum said that I should speak up more so I think I will say that I prefer Charlie rather than the other horses that I have been put on. I just want someone to listen to what I want to improve on (i.e my sitting trot to make me more confident with going into canter) but I find that in a group lesson the instructor can’t do that because there are other people to cater to as well that are able to do the things that I struggle with.


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## SmallTownGypsy (Dec 17, 2011)

If you want, try the private lesson, but keep an objective mind during it. Then you can compare afterwards. Ya know, Newark didn't start with lots of students. There diary was empty at some point, too.


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## bellagris (Dec 6, 2010)

vergo97 said:


> I just so annoyed after today
> 
> I was on a new horse called Maggie and she is really nice on the ground, good to tack up and pick her feet out. There were four other people in my group, all on small ponies and about 7-8 years old (I'm 14). Because there were 5 people in my lesson we were taking up a lot of space and the lesson before us had four people in it so there wasn't enough room for everyone. I get told to quickly tack Maggie up when I'm still picking out her feet so half her feet weren't picked out and I have to tack up really fast.* Group lessons are typically cheaper, that is just the pitfalls of doing it that way. I understand the frustration, but if you want to have it more simple look into individual lessons. *
> 
> ...


Anyways, goodluck and just keep at it. Don't do something if you can't have fun at it, but if you really want to do it and are passionate about it you will find a way to make it fun for yourself no matter what.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Okay, have you talked with White Gate and confirmed if they are legit or not? Because some trainers will bad mouth other stables if they feel like they are losing business. I would confirm that with them and whatnot before just nodding along and going back to the stables where you were having the problems. They shouldn't have kept you in that group for so long when you weren't "suited" so that's a crock of caboodle.. I'd really think through things.


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## bellagris (Dec 6, 2010)

Also to add, private lessons every other week would likely still be more beneficial for you as it is one on one time. Once you are where you need to be in a private lesson, you can go back to group. Or take a private lesson every other week and a group lesson in the weeks that you don't have private. That's a good balance as well, as when you are in a group and struggle at all you will see what you need to work on and the next week you can work on all the things you were having issues with when you were more self directed in the group lesson.


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## vergo97 (Dec 23, 2010)

Thanks for the advice kstinson.

We haven't actually asked White Gate if they are legal, but I think that as my mum always liked Newark Equestrian, now that they are offering a better deal for us that she would prefer me to go there. Christine said to my mum on the phone that she really didn't want me to go because she has "invested so much into me" and she started having a real rant about White Gate.

I think that I will probably have two private lessons from Christine and one group lesson a month at Newark Equestrian because that would add up to the same price that we usually spend a month. Hopefully once I am having a few private lessons things will be better as I can say what I am struggling with and we can work on that, and I'll be helped with the things that the horses do (like the bucking, not going where i'm telling them to go...).

I know that all stables would have started fairly empty, but White gate have been open for years and we just found it a bit strange that no one had booked any lessons for the week ahead...


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## skyhorse1999 (Dec 29, 2011)

most stables will have a problem horse, or maybe maggie was just having a bad day. in any case, unless you rally want to, you shouldnt switch barns. if you want a nice compromise between riding lesson horses or actually owning one, talk to your parents about leasing. im fourteen and leasing an 8 y/o off-track thoroghbred and its almost like owning a horse part time. and keep in mind that not every lesson will be like this, everyone has a bad day now and then. Hope it helps!


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## vergo97 (Dec 23, 2010)

I have thought about loaning, but because of the cost I would not be able to have lessons as well, and I think that learning to ride is more important than learning to care for horses at the moment. When I become a better rider then maybe I'll loan. It would be really great to loan, and to get to know one horse really well. 

It's going to be a bit awkward this weekend when I go for my lesson, but I think they needed us to threaten to leave before they would switch the group I am in. My mum has told them before that we can have lessons any day after school or at the weekend and they have always said that they think I am fine where I am, but as soon as we say we have tried out another stables, suddenly a group that is suitable for me pops up!

I know that horses can have bad days, and maybe she is really good normally, but it was just really annoying how she would not listen to anything I was telling her and then I was the one getting told off for it.


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

I went to the White Gates website, and it seemed like a pretty nice place. Of course looks can be deceiving, but I would still call and see what they have to say. I have found that people aren't going to suddenly change their ways so I doubt it will get better at your current barn.


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## DingDong (Feb 20, 2012)

*Very encouraging advice!*



Gremmy said:


> ..When I had a frustrating ride on a frustrating horse where I felt nothing was accomplished, my instructor was kind enough to put me on the same horse for the next lesson. And the next, and the next. Until I mastered that horse, and it would often end up being one of my favorites. I was lucky to have such an instructor (even though at the time I was convinced she was a demon woman), and lucky to have no-nonsense parents who made it clear that I could either hack it out with that instructor and that horse, or quit riding altogether. Many of my classmates were not so lucky, they would demand a different horse if they did not have a wonderful experience every time, and if the instructor refused then their parents would come in and insist on a change as well. Those kids always either got bored with riding, or did not progress to the level they could have. Many afraid and unwilling to try new things. If the path to becoming a strong and confident rider consisted only of positive, ego boosting experiences, then we'd all be riding in the olympics..
> 
> Wow thank you Gremmy for your advice. Like the OP sometimes I felt upset when they gave me a tough horse for my lesson. Your post however changed my perspective completely. In fact I made up my mind to ask my instructor for the tough horse for my next lesson. Like you said I need to learn how to handle all kinds of horses. Thank you very much. Also I thought that if I finished my lesson feeling frustrated and dejected that I had wasted my money. You are right on the button when you say that the toughest lessons were when I learned the most. I am going to re-read your post everytime I feel discouraged. I bookmarked it. Thanks again.


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