# Ok, so I want to build a boarding stable



## ErikaLynn

I think you should just do it. Since you have the opportunity to.


----------



## wannahorse22

Its been your dream.....so WHY NOT? I say do it 

Just to add... (I live in MI too, so I have realized why people switch barns constantly)

1.People tend to like it when the barns are kept clean and organized.
2. Make sure you are easy to approach as a BO.
3. Read up on a lot of info. on medical issues with horses, because the BO is usually the one to be with the horses most often...even when a boarder horse gets hurt.
4. make pastures/stalls look nice. People like to know there horse is living in a healthy, cozy enviornment.
5. Make annual "family" events (especilly if Boarders have lil kids)...such as a halloween party, easter egg hunt, or even a "ladies" ride.


- I hope everything works out for you!


----------



## Spastic_Dove

Start out small. Get a few pasture boarders and see how it works then move up if you can handle it. 

It's a lot of work and boarders can be very strange. Personally, I want my BO to be very involved in horses and extremely knowledgeable in feeding, vet care, when to call the vet, pasture management, communicable diseases, etc. Basically I want to know my horse is safe and the BO will know if anything is wrong. 

If you have the set up for it (Proper fencing, etc) take on 2 or 3 boarders and go from there


----------



## corinowalk

People are closing down their barns because it is expensive to own and keep horses. Boarding can be very difficult business. Most people who pay to board want amenities. Indoor/outdoor riding ring, roundpen, stalls, maintained pastures, 24/7 access to hay, high quality grains, tack room, bathrooms, trailer parking just to mention a few. Most boarding stables barely break even. Hay alone is so rediculously expensive and neccessary...it alone can break the bank. 

Example. The barn where I boarded charges $200/month. Thats cheap. She makes her own hay (has 200+acres), has well water, feeds crap grain, has a crap outdoor ring and a nice roundpen. Horses have stalls and 24/7 turn out. In the winter they get 4 flakes am and 4 flakes pm. While it is actually a good price on board, she doesn't make much. She traded feeding and cleaning responsibility for board on 2 horses. There are 12 stalls. So that $1000/month income. $12k a year. It costs her about $600 to make hay. Her taxes are outrageous. She has to pay for liability insurance. Shavings cost $225/triaxle/every 2 months. Grain costs her around $150/month. What I am saying is, its the stuff you dont think about that really eat into the budget. 

I am not trying to discourage you from chasing your dream. It is a tough business and there isn't a ton of money to be made...but if its something that you love and want to do, it would be worth it.


----------



## Sunnybrooke

Yes, I have been reading up, getting informed, not only by books, but by this forum. At one time I did board one of my horses right after I first purchased...there were 120 boarders there, very hecktic to say the least, but I needed to get to know the horse and how he was taught, his little idiosicricies, etc, so we stayed for a month. That barn is now gone, it was a decent barn, but gone none the less.
From what I gather, communication is key to boarder/barn owner or barn manager. I also know of gripes such as bad grain, bad hay, thought I would leave the grain to the boarder, locked in a closet with their tack, but fed by us each day by their request. We also have hay growing on our 35 acres, and another 30 on adjcent land, being farmed by the neighbor. This land other than 10 acres of it was just passed down to my husband this summer from the loss of his father  we have had the 10 acres for years now...so now is the time. Altogether there is 60 acres, but only 15 being passed to my husband, 15 to his sister, 15 to his brother, of which we will be buying 10 acres of wood from. 
I thought about starting off small, 60x40 barn with my own horses, then go from there, but an arena 60x140 with a added 25x140 foot enclosed lean to is not all that much (materials only) but that 25foot enclosed lean to will only house 9 horses...not enough. If I am going to build I want to do it right the first time. Thats why I love the advice...please keep it coming.


----------



## corinowalk

Around here...a very popular design is an indoor arena with stalls. A nice big building with good footing with 12 stalls on either side. I always liked these type barns as they have great ventilation, an indoor ring and good stalls. If you want, you could even build a horse shoe type around the indoor with even more stalls on the closed side.


----------



## wannahorse22

I really like this layout plan...

.::Barn Pros::. Traditional, Wood Horse Barn Kit Packages


----------



## maura

Here's the bad news - if you're lucky, and a very good manager, you can make a *small* profit or break even on boarding horses, *once you have your facility complete.* What is nearly impossible to do is to amortize the cost the capital expense of building a barn or arena. 

If you want horses, a barn and a ring for your use, and want to run a small boarding business to help pay maintenence, that's doable. If you want to add boarders so you can afford permenent help, that's doable. Pay the cost of building the facility? - not likely. 

Also note that at most large commerical barns (the ones you'll be competing with if you go with a larger operation) board is a "loss leader" sort of like the milk at the convenience store. The business plan takes into account that they will break even or lose money on board, the profit is in lessons, training, coaching at shows, buying and selling horses and ancillary services. They accept the loss on board to get clients for the other, profit making services. 

However, there is definitely a niche for barns that *aren't* focused on lessons and training, it's just harder to make money.


----------



## Sunnybrooke

Yes, carinowalk, that is exactly the type of barn I priced, only with the one side for horses tho, and across from the stalls, built locked rooms for each boarders tack, and grain or whatever else need be. I could put another lean too on the other side, but at 25,000. dollars a side, I thought I would wait to see if there was another design that would be more cost effective. The design I had drawn has window all the way down the side, doors at each end. Arena entrance in the middle, that way it only takes one stall away.
With turn outs daily, what size of stalls seem appropriate? 10X10, 10X12, 12X12? Would you expect turn out in winter? I thought about turning out into the arena when cleaning in winter, thats what a friend of mine did, early in the am and late in the pm.


----------



## Spastic_Dove

I am happiest with 12x12 when using a stall. However I prefer turnout 24/7. I would most definitly want turn out in the winter and wouldn't board at a facility if they didn't offer. I want my horse to be out being able to move and run and do whatever for 8+ hours a day, especially if they are going to be brought into a stall at night. 

Just my personal preferance


----------



## Sunnybrooke

So snow and ice is not a factor in turning out? We get plenty of both here, and snow packs to ice, I cant imagine what a pasture would have in it, be scared the horse would slip and break something, but thats just me, maybe they are more sure footed than what I think.
Maura, u are correct about the doable stuff, competing with commercial barns, well, there are none. None within probably 100 miles of me or farther. I have thought along those line of going small and moving up, but I come back to the same conclussion, build it right the first time. The indoor arena is mostly for me, it would be the only ridable place in the winter, thats 5-6 months a year here.


----------



## mliponoga

Where abouts are you from in Michigan?


----------



## Sunnybrooke

Midland/Saginaw/Baycity area


----------



## PaintHorseMares

Sunnybrooke said:


> So snow and ice is not a factor in turning out? We get plenty of both here, and snow packs to ice, I cant imagine what a pasture would have in it, be scared the horse would slip and break something, but thats just me, maybe they are more sure footed than what I think.


Would not be a factor for me. They're just as likely to sprain something when it's muddy as when it's snowy/icy.


----------



## mliponoga

Okay, not a bad area at all for starting a boarding stable, quite a few bigger cities around there. There are so many rural parts of Michigan that I would never start a boarding stable at just because 95% of the people in the area have land that they can put horses on. But, I would honestly not plan on making much money just running a boarding stable. The way that Boarding stables make money are by giving lessons, hosting shows, training horses, etc. That is the only way to do it.


----------



## Sunnybrooke

True painthorsemares, I forgot when I was younger, the horses had a lean to and didnt have a barn at all, they seldom were in the leanto, therefore were out all winter, and never got hurt. Kinda stinks getting old and forgetting simple stuff! lol


----------



## Sunnybrooke

mliponoga, I plan on leasing also, as well as hiring a trainer, there is only one stable in Freeland and it is full, and has a waiting list that is very long, this is the stable my friend used to own, at the time she had 9 stalls and a 40x120 arena stalls inside of arena, I dont really like that, its so dusty for the horses in their stalls. They seem to have alot of activity at their stable, so I am thinking some may spill over.


----------



## PaintHorseMares

maura said:


> Also note that at most large commerical barns (the ones you'll be competing with if you go with a larger operation) board is a "loss leader" sort of like the milk at the convenience store. The business plan takes into account that they will break even or lose money on board, the profit is in lessons, training, coaching at shows, buying and selling horses and ancillary services. They accept the loss on board to get clients for the other, profit making services.


This is true around here, and with the economy still in the dumps, lessons and coaching are the only money makers right now.

Have you considered having some self/co-op boarding? It's popular around here, keeps you out of the long hours of full board, and comes out ahead if you take into account what your time is worth (you still have a hard time recouping any capital investment you want to make, though).


----------



## Skipsfirstspike

Don't forget to look into your insurance costs, above and beyond your builing and maintenence fees. In Ontario, that's what's the killer. Having people riding horses on your land requires major insurance. Good luck!


----------



## ponyboy

Sunnybrooke said:


> So snow and ice is not a factor in turning out? We get plenty of both here, and snow packs to ice, I cant imagine what a pasture would have in it, be scared the horse would slip and break something,


The barns around here use kitty litter to stop the ice from being slippery and actually plow out part of their pastures if the snow gets deep enough.


----------



## churumbeque

do a business plan and see what the projections are and if you can make money. I do not know any that are luctrative unless they get alot of money and have a well known expensive trainer.


----------



## aforred

A simple way to stop the dust from becoming a problem for the stalls in the arena, since you'd be building, is to put in an irrigation system. I wish I had one.


----------



## Sunnybrooke

thanks for your input guys, I have called on insurance, still waiting on a quote...will keep you guys posted on whats going on. In the mean time, got to get those figures together, put out more feelers on anyone interested in boarding in the area. So far I know of three, may just chose to go small and build from there.


----------



## leonalee

Sunnybrooke said:


> Maura, u are correct about the doable stuff, competing with commercial barns, well, there are none. None within probably 100 miles of me or farther.


There are boarding facilities within 100 miles of you, based on where you said you are located. Haha... as a fellow Michigander (and BO) I wish you luck on your farm endeavors! Make sure you do your research!


----------



## Sunnybrooke

Well, leonalee, i have looked online, in the paper, in the phone book, if they are commercial stables, I havent found them, and neither have others who are bailing from their barns for lack of care. Ther are several around me going out of business, I have stopped at those, they were run down and pretty well used up. Another, the b/o is in a nursing home, her b/m has left the barn, so there are just boarders there...maybe 100 miles is stretching it, but I am pretty sure going to Jackson or Lansing is a bit too far for people. Flint would be stretching it, the barns in Saginaw I have checked into except one, who is priced way too high, and her teenagers run it into the ground...and it brand new. Other than Freelands barn, I cant think of any. You could give me a hint where u found them listed...


----------



## Robinson46176

Sunnybrooke said:


> Well, leonalee, i have looked online, in the paper, in the phone book, if they are commercial stables, I havent found them, and neither have others who are bailing from their barns for lack of care. Ther are several around me going out of business, I have stopped at those, they were run down and pretty well used up. Another, the b/o is in a nursing home, her b/m has left the barn, so there are just boarders there...maybe 100 miles is stretching it, but I am pretty sure going to Jackson or Lansing is a bit too far for people. Flint would be stretching it, the barns in Saginaw I have checked into except one, who is priced way too high, and her teenagers run it into the ground...and it brand new. Other than Freelands barn, I cant think of any. You could give me a hint where u found them listed...




I know of a number of smaller boarding operations in Central Indiana that try to fly below the radar of planning and zoning and other restrictions and just depend on word of mouth instead of running any ads. A lot of the old traditional advertising is also just about cost prohibitive these days. Craigslist has made many of them useless. The classified ads in our local paper is just one good example. Nobody runs ads there any more and nobody looks for ads there any more. Why would they? Craigslist works great and is free. The local paper is higher than blazes and no longer works.
Many locally do not put up any kind of a sign except maybe their farm name. Nothing that says "boarding". We are doing pasture rental. You can read about what we are doing in message #141 in the thread called "How much do you pay for board?"
I should mention that we are both retired and draw SS and have other rental income sources as well so we do not need as much money as many folks would. We are pretty frugal and have no debt, not even short term. Any mortgages were paid off years ago, no car payments, truck payments etc.
I have no interest in showing horses or catering to the show set. Not that they are not fine folks, we just don't have that interest in common. The folks we are getting are the fun horse/trail riding set. I would however be more than willing to work with the 4-H kids if I can. The folks I am getting are also the ones that don't mind coming out and feeding twice a day even in bad weather. We have made an effort to make them feel welcome at any time that fits their schedule. I have had extra security lighting installed and one fellow who works until 9 PM in Indy stops and feeds at about 10 PM every night except on days off. Another lady who works in an office just about a mile up the road stops and feeds at about 6 AM wearing high heels. That may change this winter. 
You are getting a lot of good advice from this group. I would though offer a few additional thoughts. There has been mention of barns going out of business... It is easy to make some "extra" money from such things. It is another matter entirely to make a "living" from it. That is especially true if both husband and wife are working full time in the barn and do not have outside income.
In my case I have the land and if cash rented to a grain farmer I can get about $150 to $175 an acre per year (gross). With our horse pasture renting it averages about $80 per acre (one horse) per month. That is about $1,000 per acre per year. I have to pay the property taxes regardless. I have to carry good insurance regardless. Once the whole thing is sat up the labor involved will drop to regular maintenance most of which I already have to do. 
There are many ways to "go out of business"... I will not make a big list. I will mention one that I have seen the most frequently over many years. That is to simply spend your way out of business. I know of one barn in particular ( very nice folks) that is not especially well kept up or re-invested in enough yet the BO spends a lot of time and money showing. Not just locally but sometimes a thousand miles away. There is maybe close to $200,000 worth of trucks and trailers sitting in the drive... If that is what they want to do that is fine but the return from those vehicles is about nil as far as the business is concerned. Everybody has to set their own priorities and you have to be able to be honest with yourself as to what is truly a want and what is a need. Likewise what will help business and what is maybe a more than a practical level of ego stroking. 
You usually do not want to drive an old junky piece of crap like I do (I get away with it because I am a colorful old maverick ) but neither do you usually need the very best of everything. Something that looks nice and runs well is really good enough and put that saved money back in the business where it can do more good like in making room for more paying customers to grow the business. If you are too flashy they will think you are making too much money from them. There is a huge new bank in a nearby town that is actually extremely palatial. Quite huge and grand. Everybody I talk to wonders where all of that money came from. Guess where... They will not get any of mine. My bank in in a nice concrete block building.  I expect them to make money from me but not a "killing".
The hardest part will likely be deciding on your target market. Keep in mind that you will need to be seeing these folks over and over. Pick a target group that fits your likes and it will make everything else easier.
Best of luck.
BTW, did I remember to say "go for it".


----------



## Sunnybrooke

I am hearing u Robinson...I know alot of farmers that took that route of the biggest and the best...that kinda thinkin left them bankrupt. Truth be told, I drive a 92 Park Avenue...I so love not having a car payment, lol, shes been an awesome car, no rust (knock wood) runs great, but when we move out of town next year, it will be hard on her, I only drive a mile to work now, it will be much farther once we are out at the farm!
I am excited about my project, but very caucious, I was a single mother at one time, I can squeeze a quarter out of a dime! My husbnads insight has also put me on guard about age and the requirements that will be needed from me.  lol
I have decided to go with a 36x72 barn, with 12 foot stalls on each side, and a 12 foot walk way...build stalls as needed always staying ahead by one or two. The arena will have to wait, I just want to have horses, at lest two of my own, if it works out that I can board than it will happen. The out door pastures are about 3 acres each, I should have 4 of them come spring. There is already hay there, thought the renter could get one cutting off before I fence. As he rents all of the property and will be renting the back for hay, I will be negotiating a price on his hay, and what I want out of the nutritional side. Hopefully we can get some kind of agreement.
I thank all of u for your candor, and insight into a new endeavor for me, I will keep u posted on new things as they come up. Your an awesome group! Glad I decided to post!


----------

