# My new saddle!!!!!!!



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

YAY! It is an 18.5" Crosby Bruce Davidson eventer. My stirrups need more holes so I look funny in it LOL:lol: I know the panels look like they don't fit but I had just pulled it out of the box and after I rode in it, the stuffing adjusted


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

I'm not great at fitting critique, but it looks like a nice saddle. I hope it's very comfortable to ride as well.


----------



## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

It looks too low in front, which is popping up the back of the saddle. A saddle fitter may be able to adjust the flocking to help level out the saddle.


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

luvs2ride1979 said:


> It looks too low in front, which is popping up the back of the saddle. A saddle fitter may be able to adjust the flocking to help level out the saddle.


Yeah, I kinda just threw it on him  I was really excited :lol: I got in it and it felt funny do I fixed it after I took the pix so it is fine I think:?


----------



## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

It does look a little too low but it's an all over nice saddle!


----------



## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

How would you have fixed it though? It looks to be in the right position in the photos without you in it. Maybe a front riser pad would help.


----------



## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

riser pads work very well. I have one. I don't use it anymore thoughbecause I have a better fitting saddle now but they defiently help.


----------



## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

This saddle would need a front riser, not a rear riser.


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

It does look in the right position but this saddle likes to sit more forward. It locked into place higher up. I tried a riser and it didnt work. it was too much


----------



## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I'm not an English rider, but if it is a brand new saddle, won't the back end settle down with use as the padding shapes to fit the horse? But like I said, I ride western, lol!


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

trailhorserider said:


> I'm not an English rider, but if it is a brand new saddle, won't the back end settle down with use as the padding shapes to fit the horse? But like I said, I ride western, lol!


It is not brand new but it was rarely used. After I rode in it, the back settled down considerably. The panels are huge so that could make it look like that


----------



## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Horseychick94 said:


> It is not brand new but it was rarely used. After I rode in it, the back settled down considerably. The panels are huge so that could make it look like that


I thought it looked pretty good, especially considering the padding still needs to settle. But other folks thought maybe it needed a riser, hence my comment that maybe it would fit better when it was broke in.


----------



## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

Yes, the back panels will compress, but NO they will not get lower on the horse. The tree is shaped the way it is and no amount of breaking in will change it.

Yes, if you scoot the saddle forward it will sit more level, but then the tree will be over the shoulders of the horse, which is not correct. Having the saddle too far forward can cause pain and pinching over time, and shorten the horse's strides or reach.

The saddle is sitting too low on the horse in the proper position. You either need a pad that raises the front of the saddle, or you need a correction pad that adds some thickness at the front. Or, you need to hire a saddle fitter to adjust the flocking of the saddle so it fits correctly.


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

luvs2ride1979 said:


> Yes, the back panels will compress, but NO they will not get lower on the horse. The tree is shaped the way it is and no amount of breaking in will change it.
> 
> Yes, if you scoot the saddle forward it will sit more level, but then the tree will be over the shoulders of the horse, which is not correct. Having the saddle too far forward can cause pain and pinching over time, and shorten the horse's strides or reach.
> 
> The saddle is sitting too low on the horse in the proper position. You either need a pad that raises the front of the saddle, or you need a correction pad that adds some thickness at the front. Or, you need to hire a saddle fitter to adjust the flocking of the saddle so it fits correctly.


Are you talking a half pad?


----------



## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

No, it's called a front riser pad or a correction pad. Most are in "half pad" in style, but they provide some real purpose for saddle fitting.

Correction pads:
Saddle Pads - Correction Saddle Pads - Skito Correction Pad - Build your own! - Arete Equestrian - Half Chaps, Skito & Supracor Saddle Pads... - (Powered by CubeCart)
Dover Saddlery | Mattes Quilt Correction Half Pad .
ThinLine Saddle Pads - English Pads - Trifecta ThinLine Half Pad - Arete Equestrian - Half Chaps, Skito & Supracor Saddle Pads... - (Powered by CubeCart)

Front riser pads:
, , at Stitching Horse Saddlery
Saddle Pads - Prolite saddle pads - also has pads that have removable shims.
Wintec Comfort Lift Front Saddle Padhttp://www.vtosaddlery.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=WRP


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

what about this?
http://www.saddleshop.com/largeimg/01-1107.jpg


----------



## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

Possibly, but it may create a bridging spot under the saddle, what can cause extra pressure and saddle sores. Correction pads and lift front pads generally avoid this issues.


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

luvs2ride1979 said:


> Possibly, but it may create a bridging spot under the saddle, what can cause extra pressure and saddle sores. Correction pads and lift front pads generally avoid this issues.


I will have to look for something cheap. I am broke right now :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

Hmmmm. This feels kinda like what not to wear and I am the one who dresses badly and I am learning to shop for myself :rofl: What about this? 
Tack Solutions By Leslie :: Saddle Pads & Blankets :: English Pads :: Wither Relief Pad :: No Name White USED - GOOD Wither Relief Pad


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

are you SURE I need a riser? It says here that the saddle is BUILT with a low pommel Saddle Brook Tack : : Crosby Bruce Davidson Eventer A/P Saddle [572001] - $1,050.00


----------



## kindredspirit (Jul 9, 2010)

Just wanted to say hi, Horseychick94, because I'm from Maine too and Hermon is only a few exits down from me


----------



## CharliGirl (Nov 16, 2009)

If a saddle is sitting down too low in the front, doesn't that usually mean that the tree is too wide for the horse? I've been having this problem with Kubie with his full QHB saddle, so I switched him to a semi QHB and it fits him a lot better.


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

kindredspirit said:


> Just wanted to say hi, Horseychick94, because I'm from Maine too and Hermon is only a few exits down from me


Oh! cool! I bet maybe we are friends on FB.


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

CharliGirl said:


> If a saddle is sitting down too low in the front, doesn't that usually mean that the tree is too wide for the horse? I've been having this problem with Kubie with his full QHB saddle, so I switched him to a semi QHB and it fits him a lot better.


That usually means that yes. This saddle, as the maker states, is intentionally made with a low pommel


----------



## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

The pommel is low ON THE HORSE and the back is POPPED UP. Both of those mean that the saddle is not balanced on your horse and does not fit properly.

Do whatever you want...


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

luvs2ride1979 said:


> The pommel is low ON THE HORSE and the back is POPPED UP. Both of those mean that the saddle is not balanced on your horse and does not fit properly.
> 
> Do whatever you want...


Hey, I was just making sure. My horse has a hunter's bump, a downhill back, and the pommel is built low. I am just brainstorming here.


----------



## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

The lower pommel design may not be good for your particular horse. It doesn't matter how it's designed if it won't work well in the long run.


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

vivache said:


> The lower pommel design may not be good for your particular horse. It doesn't matter how it's designed if it won't work well in the long run.


I can try a riser but he is great in it. His overall attitude is great. He even JUMPED in it! He NEVER jumps! My trainer said that it fits him well even. She knows the brand. She has one of her own.


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

What about this? Riser Pad (Equine - Horse Tack Supplies - Saddle Accessories - Pads)


----------



## Amarea (May 25, 2010)

Horseychick94 said:


> I can try a riser *but he is great in it*. His overall attitude is great. He even JUMPED in it! He NEVER jumps! My trainer said that it fits him well even. She knows the brand. She has one of her own.


You said that about the last saddle as well. You shift between being accepting of the advice offered to trying to justify why what you have is just fine. I am not near as experienced as most that have commented on your saddle fit but I can CLEARLY see the saddle does not fit properly. I can tell you, as a larger girl myself, proper saddle fit is a MUST for proper weight distribution. Your boy may be great in your eyes with this current saddle/fit but you also said the same thing with the last one. With the saddle that low in the front, you are going to give him saddle sores. Yes, the saddle may have a low pommel, but the back should NOT pop up as it is if it were fit properly. 

I'm not trying to be snarky, just please stop trying to justify how much your horse loves a clearly ill fitting saddle. You're hurting nobody but him in the long run.


----------



## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

Trainers rarely know much about proper saddle fitting.


----------



## SilverSpur (Mar 25, 2010)

luvs2ride1979 said:


> Trainers rarely know much about proper saddle fitting.



exactly, this is why we have saddle fitters.

saddles that are made with a low pommel suit horses with almost no wither. putting such a saddle on a horse with a wither (your horse) will cause the saddle to not fit correctly. he may work well in it now, but pain will build up over time and you will be left with a sore horse.


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

Amarea said:


> You said that about the last saddle as well. You shift between being accepting of the advice offered to trying to justify why what you have is just fine. I am not near as experienced as most that have commented on your saddle fit but I can CLEARLY see the saddle does not fit properly. I can tell you, as a larger girl myself, proper saddle fit is a MUST for proper weight distribution. Your boy may be great in your eyes with this current saddle/fit but you also said the same thing with the last one. With the saddle that low in the front, you are going to give him saddle sores. Yes, the saddle may have a low pommel, but the back should NOT pop up as it is if it were fit properly.
> 
> I'm not trying to be snarky, just please stop trying to justify how much your horse loves a clearly ill fitting saddle. You're hurting nobody but him in the long run.


Its just hard! I spent so much money on it and I saved up for so long!:-x I already gave up one saddle that I loved! I have been shopping for saddles for 3 YEARS! I am darn sick of it! :-x


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

Horseychick94 said:


> What about this? Riser Pad (Equine - Horse Tack Supplies - Saddle Accessories - Pads)


Anyone approve of this one?:?


----------



## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

That one is for a western saddle. You could try it, but it may cause bridging.

You should be trying out saddles to see if they fit before you buy them, or buy from a store (that carries used saddles) that allows returns/exchanges.

This saddle may work for your horse IF you find a saddle fitter that does reflocking. The flocking can be adjusted to make minor changes in fit. It usually costs $100-150 to have the saddle flocking adjusted.


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

luvs2ride1979 said:


> That one is for a western saddle. You could try it, but it may cause bridging.
> 
> You should be trying out saddles to see if they fit before you buy them, or buy from a store (that carries used saddles) that allows returns/exchanges.
> 
> This saddle may work for your horse IF you find a saddle fitter that does reflocking. The flocking can be adjusted to make minor changes in fit. It usually costs $100-150 to have the saddle flocking adjusted.


Ok. I also found a fleece one Fleece Wider-Wither Pad - Horse.com I will try a riser first. if that doesnt work I will try to find a fitter. I dont think there are any in Maine to my knowledge :?


----------



## reachthestars (Jul 2, 2010)

Padding under a saddle that doesn't fit causes the saddle to tip and creates pressure points in other areas - if you raise the front you'll be tipping it backwards and creating new pressure points towards the back of the saddle. 

Send it back now while it's still brand new, and keep going on your search. It doesn't matter if this is your dream saddle - it is going to hurt your horse sooner rather than later. 

Trust me, I'm from New Brunswick so I know what a great lack of saddles and fitters there are in this area. It sucks to have a horse that isn't 'average', but it is worth it in the long run to have a saddle that works well for BOTH of you.


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

Ok. I fixed the problem. I cut up one of my old foam saddle pads and put the pieces in the front. MUCH better. He had no little dry spots after riding and wasnt in pain. He seemed much more relaxed today. The saddle is fine now. I might still get a riser but this is just a temporary solution. In the future I intend on getting the flocking fixed. Even though I had some extra padding in front, there was NO bridging whatsoever. Thanks Luvs2ride1979!!!!!


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

This is what I cut up. I cut a 4-5" piece from the front and back. Put them on top of eachother and voila! http://www.delhitackshop.com/tack-shop-products/imagepro/therapeutic pads.jpg


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

I can post pix later to show it


----------



## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Hmm....just keep an eye on him to make sure the makeshift pad doesn't cause him soring. Hopefully it works for you and your horse!


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

equiniphile said:


> Hmm....just keep an eye on him to make sure the makeshift pad doesn't cause him soring. Hopefully it works for you and your horse!


Thanks! It doesnt seem to be hurting him or pinching. I have been watching it today


----------



## reachthestars (Jul 2, 2010)

Makeshift pads are WORSE for your horse than store-bought. There isn't a quick fix for a saddle that doesn't fit, there's buying a new saddle. 

The problem with making your own is that at least with store bought you have tapered edges and they're made to a specific shape that's been proven to work best. When you start making your own you lose that.


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

reachthestars said:


> Makeshift pads are WORSE for your horse than store-bought. There isn't a quick fix for a saddle that doesn't fit, there's buying a new saddle.
> 
> The problem with making your own is that at least with store bought you have tapered edges and they're made to a specific shape that's been proven to work best. When you start making your own you lose that.


That is pretty much what I said. This is temporary. When I get a few bucks I will buy one. Another temporary thing. When I get a crapload of money, I will hire a saddlefitter. Permanent fix. Bada bing


----------



## reachthestars (Jul 2, 2010)

You bought a saddle with a low pommel for a high withered horse. Can't change the basics - no matter how much padding they stuff in that thing it won't ever be the right saddle. It just astounds me that after all the advice you've received in this thread you charge blindly on, convinced that because there appear to be no issues your horse is fine.

Standardbreds are notorious for putting up with crap that would have another horse bucking you off. I've seen it time and time again, and your situation is no different. Heaven knows the crap my poor first horse (who also was a standardbred) put up with on a day to day basis because I simply didn't know better at the time. He put up with too wide saddles, too narrow saddles, overly severe bits... Let me tell you, it was a real wake up call when I had his first massage done. He was sore ALL OVER and I assumed he was 100% because she always went so well for me.


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

reachthestars said:


> You bought a saddle with a low pommel for a high withered horse. Can't change the basics - no matter how much padding they stuff in that thing it won't ever be the right saddle. It just astounds me that after all the advice you've received in this thread you charge blindly on, convinced that because there appear to be no issues your horse is fine.
> 
> Standardbreds are notorious for putting up with crap that would have another horse bucking you off. I've seen it time and time again, and your situation is no different. Heaven knows the crap my poor first horse (who also was a standardbred) put up with on a day to day basis because I simply didn't know better at the time. He put up with too wide saddles, too narrow saddles, overly severe bits... Let me tell you, it was a real wake up call when I had his first massage done. He was sore ALL OVER and I assumed he was 100% because she always went so well for me.



So you are basically saying that Luvs2ride1979 has no clue what she is talking about????? This saddle is not a huge problem. It is being blown out of proportion. Seriously. This saddle is not pinching, bridging, rocking, moving, or anything. Luvs2ride1979 said that as long as it is reflocked then it will be ok.


----------



## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

She is one person. She cannot come see it in person. Photos can deceive.


----------



## reachthestars (Jul 2, 2010)

She actually said that reflocking MIGHT help. The problem you are having is that the pommel is too low/your horse has high withers. I'm assuming that you've checked how it fits down his shoulder? And it's probably fine, not too snug? Reflocking it to lift it off the withers is going to add bulk over the shoulders, causing pinching. You'll end up with a horse that won't be able to use his shoulders properly. I'm assuing this saddle is on a trial period? I'm really strongly suggesting sending it back before the trial period is up and finding one that fits without extra padding.


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

vivache said:


> Photos can deceive.


EXACTLY! I know saddle fit as well. In person, it is FINE! i can't prove that, no. I can put up more pix but it probably wont do any good. I may be young but I am no Idiot


----------



## reachthestars (Jul 2, 2010)

Can you post pictures of it without the pad and without it girthed up? Might give us a better idea of the true fit.


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

reachthestars said:


> She actually said that reflocking MIGHT help. The problem you are having is that the pommel is too low/your horse has high withers. I'm assuming that you've checked how it fits down his shoulder? And it's probably fine, not too snug? Reflocking it to lift it off the withers is going to add bulk over the shoulders, causing pinching. You'll end up with a horse that won't be able to use his shoulders properly. I'm assuing this saddle is on a trial period? I'm really strongly suggesting sending it back before the trial period is up and finding one that fits without extra padding.


What do you mean by down his shoulder? The saddle is not really even that snug. he had a very nice sweat pattern when I removed it. The saddle was a final sale. My trainer told me to go for it since it is worth so much and was sold so cheap so I did. It is too late now so that is why I want to try and fix it because this saddle is SO worth it


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

reachthestars said:


> Can you post pictures of it without the pad and without it girthed up? Might give us a better idea of the true fit.


Yeah, I will take some later. My horse is enjoying himself eating right now:mrgreen: and I dont have the heart to disturb him LOL


----------



## reachthestars (Jul 2, 2010)

That's fine... I have to go get my mare ready for our lesson tonight, so I'll be gone for a few hours anyway.


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

reachthestars said:


> That's fine... I have to go get my mare ready for our lesson tonight, so I'll be gone for a few hours anyway.


KK so here are the pics The first 4 are of JUST the saddle. The next 4 are just the saddle girthed up. The next 4 are of the saddle with my AP pad and girth. The last 4 are the saddle girthed up with the AP pad and the foam pad I cut up. The absolute final one is a pic at the beginning of the thread. IMO, I think the pic at the beginning of the thread , the cantle is popped up because my horse puffs his back and hunches his back when I girth up the saddle (he has done that ever since I got him so it is not because he is sore. They are not too gentle at the racetrack). In the pics I am putting up from today, after I girthed up the saddle I walked him for a minute so he would settle his back.


----------



## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

It looks okay to me, but then again, I'm new to the English world


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

here is the rest


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

This is what my horse looks like if that helps


----------



## reachthestars (Jul 2, 2010)

The pads have raised the pommel, but it still bothers me how much it pops off in the back... Something somewhere is wrong. Have a saddle fitter look at it, but I really don't think there's going to be much he/she can do :/. You don't want to see the back panels lifting off the back like that.

As an example - my older model crosby on my super duper high withered TB mare's back (only on to get sales pictures... her withers are too high for it). Notice how it sits in the back.









And another example, my dressage saddle on my pony that I just sold.









And the same dressage saddle on super high withered TB mare (with narrower gullet). I only have pics of it with my half pad unfortunately, but it shows clearly the back of the saddle resting evenly on her back.









Perhaps discuss removing some of the padding from the back? It seems so overstuffed. It is wool, right? *crosses fingers* If it's foam you're SOL unless you want to shell out $$ to have it pulled and reflocked with wool.


----------



## SilverSpur (Mar 25, 2010)

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content










this picture shows how much the panels are really lifting up off your horses back. there should be an even contact all the way along.

STB's are well known for putting up with anything. your horse many not show his pain but that doesnt mean he isnt in any. and as a larger rider saddle fit is of upmost importance!

everyone here is saying the same thing, that this saddle does not fit. 

IMO i would sell this saddle and look for another, and ask in the shops if you can try before you buy.


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

reachthestars said:


> The pads have raised the pommel, but it still bothers me how much it pops off in the back... Something somewhere is wrong. Have a saddle fitter look at it, but I really don't think there's going to be much he/she can do :/. You don't want to see the back panels lifting off the back like that.
> 
> As an example - my older model crosby on my super duper high withered TB mare's back (only on to get sales pictures... her withers are too high for it). Notice how it sits in the back.
> 
> ...


I am pretty sure it is wool. The panels are HUGE. I will have a specialist look at the pics to make sure but selling this saddle is not going to happen. ALL saddles I have used has looked like that. I think that the riser pad I put in did help so if the saddle person says so, I will go by that


----------



## reachthestars (Jul 2, 2010)

Why on earth is selling it not an option?

Also, just because all saddles YOU'VE used look like that does not make it right. I've tried saddles on my horses that looked like that and right back to the store or up for sale they went.


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

SilverSpur said:


> this picture shows how much the panels are really lifting up off your horses back. there should be an even contact all the way along.
> 
> STB's are well known for putting up with anything. your horse many not show his pain but that doesnt mean he isnt in any. and as a larger rider saddle fit is of upmost importance!
> 
> ...


Not my STB! He puts up with absolutely NOTHING! I know my horse. If he was in pain (which he is not and has no reason to be just because the panels are a little bit off of his back) I would know it. I am NOT selling the saddle. I am having a fitter look at it


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

reachthestars said:


> Why on earth is selling it not an option?


Because it is a perfect saddle and there is nothing to this saddle that can't be fixed.


----------



## reachthestars (Jul 2, 2010)

But isn't JUST "the panels are a little bit off his back", that should be a flashing neon sign to you that something SOMEWHERE in the saddle is wrong on him.


----------



## Charis (Jul 6, 2010)

Horseychick94 said:


> Because it is a perfect saddle and there is nothing to this saddle that can't be fixed.


*Wrong.* Reflocking *might* help, but I'll go ahead and say that I wouldn't hang my hat on that. I bet this saddle will never fit correctly. The back panels come right off her back, and the pommel is extremely low. If you take some of the flocking out of the back and add it to the front, you're going to create weird hotspots. It's a nice saddle, but it is not right for your mare. By riding your horse in a saddle that doesn't fit correctly, you are risking their soundness.


----------



## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

Is a saddle worth hurting your horse?  Once you sit on that saddle, the pommel will lower even more, no MATTER how much it's lifted off the back. It's too low. You need a new one.


----------



## Curly_Horse_CMT (Jun 8, 2008)

At this point, a "temporary fix" would probably do more harm then good. Just because it was pointed out that reflocking MAY help doesn't mean that it will be a complete fix for you and your horse. The saddle isn't perfect if it is not the right match for your horse. It sounds like you are convincing yourself that it will be just fine, so you are not open to any other options. 

Please consider selling the saddle that you have, or looking into finding a decent saddle fitter NOW rather then LATER.


----------



## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

reachthestars said:


> She actually said that reflocking MIGHT help. The problem you are having is that the pommel is too low/your horse has high withers.


That could be the problem, or it could be that the saddle is just too wide. The front angle seems to be the right angle, the saddle is just overall too wide in front. Adding some extra padding, homemade or store bought, will help the issue until a saddle fitter can address the flocking, or help her find a better suited saddle.

As long as she watches the horse's behavior during saddling and while riding, checks the sweat marks after her ride, and checks for soreness before and after each ride, she'll be fine. 

I have a few saddles for my horses that are not ideal in fit. These are lesson horses and (quality) lesson saddles. I make do with shimable Skito pads where I can, and never use a saddle that's too narrow. All of the horses get checked by our chiropractor/vet once a year and have great backs. As long as you pad appropriately and watch the horse, you can use padding to aid in saddle fit.

I am also a heavy rider, over 200 lbs. This type of issue is why I only ride in treeless saddles anymore. I don't show, so it doesn't matter what my saddles look like. I do have an older Stubben AP that fits me and a couple of my horses, but I much prefer my treeless saddles. I have a Bob Marshall Endurance and a Black Forest english type Endurance saddle. I use Skito pads along with a ThinLine pad. The saddles are very stable and my horses' backs do very well. The horses ride better for me in my treeless saddles and I feel I am a more effective rider.


----------



## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

I also don't see "high withers" on this horse. They look pretty moderate to me. A low pommel is good for horses with low withers, but it can work well on other types of horses as well. Otherwise, almost every close contact saddle out there wouldn't work for all of those TBs in the Hunter ring ;-). CC saddles almost always have "low pommels." It has to be low in order to two point correctly over sizable fences.


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

luvs2ride1979 said:


> That could be the problem, or it could be that the saddle is just too wide. The front angle seems to be the right angle, the saddle is just overall too wide in front. Adding some extra padding, homemade or store bought, will help the issue until a saddle fitter can address the flocking, or help her find a better suited saddle.
> 
> As long as she watches the horse's behavior during saddling and while riding, checks the sweat marks after her ride, and checks for soreness before and after each ride, she'll be fine.
> 
> ...


THANK YOU! :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:


----------



## Amarea (May 25, 2010)

luvs2ride1979 said:


> As long as she watches the horse's behavior during saddling and while riding, checks the sweat marks after her ride, and checks for soreness before and after each ride, she'll be fine.


Yes, this is a bit snarky, but at this point, she is so adamant that this saddle is perfect that I believe her perceptions of what is "acceptable" behavior, etc is a bit skewed because she doesn't want to concede that she was wrong (again). She argued like this about the first saddle. 

We can post our concerns until we are blue in the face. Fact is, she doesn't really want our opinions otherwise she wouldn't argue with every single solitary person that offers some assistance. The one who is truly suffering is her poor horse and only because his rider refuses to take the route that should truly be taken and is trying to get her horse to adjust to things IMO he shouldn't have to. Responsible horse ownership is not cheap and that includes hiring a saddle fitter if needed. 

I love how you have argued in both threads you have no money and yet when the heat gets turned up, you suddenly do. You just posted today that you are having a saddle fitter look at it after arguing a few days ago you couldn't afford it. I'm sorry that this seems rude but darn it, please don't ask for help if you don't really want to hear it! We are not going to sugar coat it because your horses well being is at stake!


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

Amarea said:


> Yes, this is a bit snarky, but at this point, she is so adamant that this saddle is perfect that I believe her perceptions of what is "acceptable" behavior, etc is a bit skewed because she doesn't want to concede that she was wrong (again). She argued like this about the first saddle.
> 
> We can post our concerns until we are blue in the face. Fact is, she doesn't really want our opinions otherwise she wouldn't argue with every single solitary person that offers some assistance. The one who is truly suffering is her poor horse and only because his rider refuses to take the route that should truly be taken and is trying to get her horse to adjust to things IMO he shouldn't have to. Responsible horse ownership is not cheap and that includes hiring a saddle fitter if needed.
> 
> I love how you have argued in both threads you have no money and yet when the heat gets turned up, you suddenly do. You just posted today that you are having a saddle fitter look at it after arguing a few days ago you couldn't afford it. I'm sorry that this seems rude but darn it, please don't ask for help if you don't really want to hear it! We are not going to sugar coat it because your horses well being is at stake!



Ok. seriously? My horse is fine. He is happy. He is not sore. I am not fighting about this anymore. My saddle is fine. The pics really make things look worse than they are. I was having a saddle fitter look at it via EMAIL which costs NOTHING. All of the reputable horse people I know have said the saddle is fine. It fits all of the criteria. Some of you are being WAY too overly dramatic about something not even worth arguing about. Thanks for your concern but the people I know say that the saddle is fine and that is all I am going by


----------



## Amarea (May 25, 2010)

Same people who told you trotting on asphalt was acceptable? Yep, that's real knowledgeable!


----------



## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

I AM a saddle fitter (and a horse massage therapist, barefoot trimmer, and trainer). That saddle does not fit your horse, and it's arguably too small for you. You may be able to make it work, but it does not fit as-is. 

And Amarea, she technically didn't ask for our help/opinions. She posted a "look at my pretty saddle" thread, and we decided to comment anyway ;-).


----------



## Amarea (May 25, 2010)

luvs2ride1979 said:


> I AM a saddle fitter (and a horse massage therapist, barefoot trimmer, and trainer). That saddle does not fit your horse, and it's arguably too small for you. You may be able to make it work, but it does not fit as-is.
> 
> And Amarea, she technically didn't ask for our help/opinions. She posted a "look at my pretty saddle" thread, and we decided to comment anyway ;-).


Ahh, guess I figured it was an extension of her other post. My bad :lol:

Like I said, I am sorry I am so darned riled over this but none of the saddles that have been posted fit worth a poo and this is coming from someone who has very VERY limited exposure to saddles. IMO, when you can BARELY see the front of a saddle when someone is seated on it, it is TOO small. Add improper posting, that horse (or the rider courtesy of a fed up horse) is going to get hurt.


----------



## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

Well, being a big gal myself I understand fitting issues of bigger riders. When you have a tummy that hangs over (mine does too!) it's hard to judge saddle fit by pictures with English saddles. You do need the 4 fingers of space behind your rear, but the space in the front needs to be in front of the pelvic bone, which can be obscured in photos of a larger rider. I know I look HUGE in my English saddle, but it actually fits me pretty well. If it was bigger (which I don't think is possible, lol, it's a generous 19" seat), I would slide around in it. I can post and canter well, without worries of hitting the pommel or landing on the back of the cantle.


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

luvs2ride1979 said:


> I AM a saddle fitter (and a horse massage therapist, barefoot trimmer, and trainer). That saddle does not fit your horse, and it's arguably too small for you. You may be able to make it work, but it does not fit as-is.
> 
> And Amarea, she technically didn't ask for our help/opinions. She posted a "look at my pretty saddle" thread, and we decided to comment anyway ;-).


Ok. One of my friends told me to use a memory foam front riser pad. Where can I find one if they even exist? I am looking for a cheap pad. Funds are tight because my horses just had their feet done and it looks like mister comet needs pads and shoes. Could you please help me find one? You know what you are talking about (obviously). I am looking for one preferably $40 or under. $40 is quite a stretch from $0 :lol: but I can try to earn some. IK this sounds like BS and excuses but HONESTLY, this saddle looks WORSE in the pics (in the back) than in real life. I think the problem could also be is that the saddle only has 2 billets?:?


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

luvs2ride1979 said:


> Well, being a big gal myself I understand fitting issues of bigger riders. When you have a tummy that hangs over (mine does too!) it's hard to judge saddle fit by pictures with English saddles. You do need the 4 fingers of space behind your rear, but the space in the front needs to be in front of the pelvic bone, which can be obscured in photos of a larger rider. I know I look HUGE in my English saddle, but it actually fits me pretty well. If it was bigger (which I don't think is possible, lol, it's a generous 19" seat), I would slide around in it. I can post and canter well, without worries of hitting the pommel or landing on the back of the cantle.



When I sit in it and look down, I see 4 fingers worth of pommel. My belly hides it tho:hide::hide::hide:


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

Amarea said:


> Same people who told you trotting on asphalt was acceptable? Yep, that's real knowledgeable!


:-x:-x:x not the same ppl


----------



## reachthestars (Jul 2, 2010)

I'm out - it's like talking to a brick wall. Good luck, hope you come to your senses before your horse is seriously hurt. You've received some very good advice from many people in this thread, one day maybe you'll back and realize that.


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

reachthestars said:


> I'm out - it's like talking to a brick wall. Good luck, hope you come to your senses before your horse is seriously hurt. You've received some very good advice from many people in this thread, one day maybe you'll back and realize that.


Well, I just got a msg saying that my saddle needs reflocking. The panels are overstuffed. Nothing wrong with the horse or fit. Not causing pain. Here is the msg if you dont believe me .


Hi

I have looked at at all the pics and have read the comments on the thread. 

As things look it's not a bad fit - It looks a little low at the front , I agree with most if not all of what Luvs2Ride has said ( she is a saddle fitter by trade, so should know her stuff )

The biggest problem I can see is not with the fit of the saddle or the shape of your horse. At some point in this saddles history it has been overstuffed - this is causing the saddle panels at the back to ' bulge ' - it is also responsible for the saddle looking like it is tipping forward as it is not the front that is too low but the back that is too high . 
This is a problem that MUST be looked at - the problem will only get worse with time - what will happen is that the panel at the back will always have to be overstuffed to maintain their shape ( which will stretch the panels further ) - if the panels are not overstuffed the rest of the flocking will move from the front of the saddle to wards the back which will make the ' tipping ' appear worse - also if the flocking is able to move around a lot it will ' ball up ' which will cause pressure points.
The worst case scenario for the saddle is that the excess pressure on the stitching combined with the movement caused whilst riding will cause the stitching to tear the leather at the back and start to rip the saddle in half - also an overstuffed panel will put pressure on the tree of the saddle and may stress the tree over time to breaking point --- either way you will face either a huge bill to fix the problem or a broken saddle .

This is not an easy or quick problem to fix and is not a matter of just adjusting the flocking - the panels must be removed completly - all of the flocking removed , then some of the panel leather needs to be cut away ( from the inside ) to reduce the size and correct the shape - the saddle then needs to be reflocked, I don't know about the US but in the UK this would cost about $150

If you have the option I would think about returning the saddle and getting a refund - if you can that is

If you send me your e-mail address I will reply with some pics so you can see for yourself what I can see - I wouldn't ride too much on this saddle as it is - not because it may hurt your horses back ( which I don't think it will ) but because of the damage it may do to the saddle.

Sorry for the book and if I've upset you with any bad news.

Nutty 
I knew it wasn't a bad fit. That is why I argued. I knew the saddle fit
​


----------



## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

But it looks like there won't be any quick fixes as it is.


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

vivache said:


> But it looks like there won't be any quick fixes as it is.


Right. So looks like I will be riding western until I raise enough $$. The whole family is stressed out because of $$ issues. The horses havent even had their rabies shots yet because my mom still owes the vet $150 ish


----------



## Nutty Saddler (May 26, 2009)

Horseychick94 said:


> FROM PM by Nutty Saddler:
> This is not an easy or quick problem to fix and is not a matter of just adjusting the flocking - the panels must be removed completly - all of the flocking removed , then some of the panel leather needs to be cut away ( from the inside ) to reduce the size and correct the shape - the saddle then needs to be reflocked, I don't know about the US but in the UK this would cost about $150


If you read my PM again, especially the paragraph above, I DID NOT SAY that the saddle just needs re-stuffing. I was not particularly happy you have posted my PM to you, on the open forum, to be honest. 

The saddle has a serious problem in the fact that it has been overstuffed. It needs 'major surgery' by a saddler - who really knows what they are doing - to correct this problem. See the portion from the quote above. 

Here is a photo of a saddle the same as yours:










Here is your saddle:










You can see on the first picture, nothing is 'bulging' or pulling apart. The panels are flat at the bottom, and there is no gap between the seat/skirt and the panel piping until you get to the saddle flap. 

On your saddle, you can see the difference. In actual fact, the photo of your saddle from the other side showed the problem even more, but I used this side, so both saddle photos were from the same side. I can see from this photo of your saddle, that the bulging panels are starting to pull the stitches, and pretty soon, with using the saddle, the thread will start to tear the panel hide. 

This is NOT a manufacture fault in the saddle, because the saddle looks like a very nice saddle. It's a fault by someone who has reflocked this saddle at some point. It's like if you put too much air in your car tire, and it blows up - you don't blame the tire-maker, you blame the person who put too much air in the tire! 

Once again, this is not a case of 'it needs re-flocking / re-stuffing'. It has been seriously overflocked, causing the panel hide to stretch. This is a job for a skilled saddler, the procedure is described in my PM (and now on your post.)

Hope this clarifies things and explains it a little better. 

Nutty.


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

Nutty Saddler said:


> If you read my PM again, especially the paragraph above, I DID NOT SAY that the saddle just needs re-stuffing. I was not particularly happy you have posted my PM to you, on the open forum, to be honest.
> 
> The saddle has a serious problem in the fact that it has been overstuffed. It needs 'major surgery' by a saddler - who really knows what they are doing - to correct this problem. See the portion from the quote above.
> 
> ...


Sorry but I didn't know it would upset you. Now I see a HUGE difference in the saddles. WOW. Thanks for showing me this!


----------



## Nutty Saddler (May 26, 2009)

Horseychick94 said:


> Sorry but I didn't know it would upset you. Now I see a HUGE difference in the saddles. WOW. Thanks for showing me this!



Hi, 

No problem, you are very welcome to any advice I can give, and I will happily try and help anyone I can with saddlery matters.

I wasn't so much upset that you quoted my PM, but a little surprised/unhappy that my private message appeared on the forum without asking me first, but no harm done. 

Glad you can see now what I was talking about, pictures are often much easier. 

Nutty.


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

Nutty Saddler said:


> Hi,
> 
> No problem, you are very welcome to any advice I can give, and I will happily try and help anyone I can with saddlery matters.
> 
> ...


Now that I have seen the pics I can see that the stitching holding the panels to the seat is stressed. It looks ready to pop! I will not use this saddle until it is fixed. So besides my saddle needing surgery, you think it is a good fit?


----------



## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

Horseychick94 said:


> Ok. One of my friends told me to use a memory foam front riser pad. Where can I find one if they even exist? I am looking for a cheap pad. Funds are tight because my horses just had their feet done and it looks like mister comet needs pads and shoes. Could you please help me find one? You know what you are talking about (obviously). I am looking for one preferably $40 or under. $40 is quite a stretch from $0 :lol: but I can try to earn some. IK this sounds like BS and excuses but HONESTLY, this saddle looks WORSE in the pics (in the back) than in real life. I think the problem could also be is that the saddle only has 2 billets?:?


Skito is a memory foam correction pad. Cavallo makes one too. None of them are cheap.


----------



## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

I want to add to Nutty's post.

I have a horse with a similar back to yours - medium withers and quite flat from wither to hip. 

This same horse was ridden in a badly fitting saddle with a larger rider for 3 YEARS. If you want to know the kind of damage this can do, you just have to look at my poor horse. He had palm sized white patches either side of his wither that have now shrunk to 50cent coin sized. The sweat glands and nerves/muscles are damaged, permanently, in his back. He has bizzarre hard lumps along his spine that come up after riding that no one can diagnose. He has had numerous visits from chiropractors, body workers, phototonic light therapy. Been treated with liniment and had an entire diet overhaul.

As well as all that, he has a CUSTOM made saddle for his back. 

ONLY after all this can he work comfortably, and I still have to constantly monitor his back, his saddle fit, use a Thinline pad to absorb shock, limit getting on/off from the ground, and keep up the visits from body workers.

PLEASE don't allow this to happen to your horse. My horse put up with this for THREE YEARS and it makes me so sad to see him still reacting to remembered pain when I saddle him. 

*

Okay. On to your saddle and it's fit. Basically, it doesn't.

Your horse, like mine, has quite a flat back. However, the saddle you ahve bought does NOT have a flat tree - it is quite bendy from front to back, kind of like a banana. In addition, it is too wide at the front, and as Nutty mentioned, over stuffed through the panels. To make this saddle fit you would have to rebuild it from the ground up - New tree that is flatter to fit the contours of his back, narrower gullet to lift the front up, and flatter panels to allow the whole panel to contact his back, instead of the 1 or 2 inches that are contacting it at the moment.

Please don't take offense to this, but for a larger rider in an english saddle, fit is everything. English saddles do not have much surface area on a horses back. The more weight you put in one, the more pressure is placed on those small, sensitive areas. So you want to have as much of the panels contacting the back as possible to spread the weight bearing over a larger area. Because of the overstuffing, bendiness of the tree and too-wide gullet, all the weight is being transferred to the front half of the saddle, especially near the wither. You can see how much higher the cantle is than the pommel in the unsaddled pictures - it clearly shows how, once a rider sits in the saddle, all the weight will bear forwards.

This is my flat-backed horse in his custom made saddle. You can see the large panels and how flat it sits on his back - Different style saddle but still has english-type panels. The santle and pommel are level - And the centre of the seat is the lowest point, not tipping the rider forward or back:


----------



## Nutty Saddler (May 26, 2009)

Will your saddle fit ?

This is always a difficult question to answer, especially as I am not there in person to see the saddle on the horse, so general rules/guidelines have to be explained.
Your saddle at the moment looks worse than it really is because the overstuffing in the panels ( which is quite new and hasn't been used much ) is not only tilting forward but is also slightly distorting the tree.
By looking at your saddle on your horse I would say that the tree is a reasonable fit, there dosen't appear to be any ' bridging ' at the moment when you look at the back half of the saddle on your horse








Also if you look at the front arch it also appears to be a reasonable fit as the ' points ' of the tree look to be at the same angle as your horse








I would say that if your saddle has its panels corrected and re-stuffed properly that you will end up with a reasonably good fit.


----------



## Nutty Saddler (May 26, 2009)

A word of warning for all

ANY and ALL saddles even when fitted correctly will NOT fit your horse at all times, a horse changes shape depending on condition, hardfeed , time of year , avialiability of forage ( grass & hay ) and of course not forgetting the horses age and health ( just ask MIE how Nelson chaged shape when he had 3 months off from competing due to injury ) .

Try to learn the basics of check-fitting a saddle - if you are unsure then ask someone like Luvs2ride ( a saddle fitter by trade ) for advice - a basic check can be done via the internet using photos but please be aware that this is not guaranteed and does take up a saddle fitters time some $$$ would be appreciated ( NOT asking for myself , but I wouldn't want Luvs tied up all day looking at pics of saddles on horses and not able to earn a living ) 

Many trainers , who might be great with either horses or people , don't fit saddles and don't really know themselves are trusted 100% because they are a persons trainer - I know of cases where trainers have told people that their current saddle dosen't fit , but they just happen to have one for sale that does , not to tar all trainers with the same brush but be aware there are some bad apples in all trades.

A saddles flocking will also need to be adjusted during the course of a year and replaced depending on how often the saddle is used - this is really important and will keep your saddle and flocking in good order.

Not to be PC but for those riders who tip the scales a bit , a good saddle fit at all times really important - one purpose of a saddle is to distribute a riders weight over the largest area possible and a saddle that is a poor fit or is in poor condition can wreck a horses back put a rider in a bad position and remove some of the pleasure from riding for both horse and rider

As I said before - try to learn the basics of check-fitting a saddle and check your own saddle to your own horse yourself at least once a month - a problem spotted early will save both you and your horse a lot of pain - both physically and financially.


Sorry for the book , but all too often I've heard people tell me that their saddle must fit because it was originally fitted by a pro - I ask them WHEN it was fitted - Oh, about 2 years ago !


----------



## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

^ Amen - And another important reason to educate yourself is that not all saddle fitters are created equal - I have had some shoddy fittings over the years, the most recent one resulted in a saddle tipping forward like in the OP - Needless to say I went back to the saddle I had fitted myself and didn't make the horse uncomfortable. The fellow who made my custom saddle is the only professional so far who has been able to make Bundy comfortable.

Don't take the word of ANYONE as gospel, educate yourself.


----------



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

Thank you EVERYONE for your opinions! This saddle will sadly be packed away for a while but it WILL be fixed and NOT sold. If I sell it, I will have to take money off of it and someone else will end up with the same problem. I found a fitter that is pretty far away but in Maine so I will probably ship the saddle to and from there to have it fixed.


----------



## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Excellant posts Nutty! I've been missing our conversations!


----------

