# Western or English - a continuing debate.



## Opendoorequine (Nov 29, 2010)

Very nicely written. I enjoyed reading this. I started out riding English. I later switched to Western for something new to learn. Having done both and loving both it grates on my nerves when one "side" bashes the other "side" of the same coin, so your article was very refreshing to read. Thank you.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Barry, I love reading anything you have written purely for the refreshingly correct use of the English language and your eloquent, flowing writing style. The fact that you post interesting viewpoints is of course an added benefit.

I am an English rider, although now I am in Texas I have had the opportunity to try western riding. Despite every effort I still feel like a fish out of water. I also do not do the horse much justice with the way I ride, riding western is truly an art form and something that is not picked up easily, almost like speaking another language. The best I can do on a western trained horse is try to ride like I am not there at all.

As a spectator of western events (reining, barrel racing etc) I think I do magnificently as I am suitably impressed by manouvres and displays of impeccable training, even though I don't understand it. Can't wait for the Houston rodeo early next year!


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

I am a primarily western rider. I think your conflict isn't so much the difference in disciplines but the difference in reasons to ride. 

I love riding for freedom, relaxation and companionship. It gets me out of the city and into the woods. I breathe deeper on a ride. I trail ride to nowhere. We circle the fields and the back roads with no destination. I love every single second of it. No agenda. No problem. 

I know others, not always 'english' riders, they ride for a purpose. They want perfect form, harmony in motion. The strive for the blue. The want their riding friends to envy their position and their horses athletic ability. They rarely leave the ring. 

In my mind, their horses jump higher than I will ever desire to jump. They can execute dressage moves that I could never fathom. They do reining spins and set land speed records...in the ring. 

I am in it for the fun. I think they are too. Niether side is wrong or right. I had my day where I wanted riding to really take me somewhere. Those days are long gone! 

Now I am totally content to ride my trail to nowhere. If I showed up in a show ring today, I would be asked to leave. The mental picture of myself in breeches makes me want to hurl and I don't even have to look at myself from behind. My lower leg is unsteady and my heel is just barely down. I wouldn't win any prizes but I love riding. Thats enough for me!


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

Corino
You are not alone in this world of horses but for some inexplicable reason we happy hackers are a dwindling band. Your aims and objectives are much as my own - except over here on this little island on the edge of the Atlantic we still have a pub here or there, in which I can partake of a glass of wine or two and a fresh beef sandwich, topped with horse radish and a packet of crisps.

After a brief snack, comes the journey home. Up the lane, through the woods and down into the valley. No rush, a gossip here and a wave of the hand there. Paradise. 

Entry ticket, one calm, steady, confident, forward going horse. 
Saddle?: optional - English or Western according to choice.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Barry,

You aren't perhaps a travel writer, are you? If not, you are in the wrong business! Your last description of popping down the lane to the pub for a sandwich was utterly charming. What I wouldn't give . . .

Do you know of a Brit named Tom Moates? He may now reside in the US, but I think he still goes to the UK regularly to do clinics. He has taken up Western riding and become a student of Mark Rashid and natural horsemanship. He is also an eloquent man and apparently, came rather late in life to horses. You might look into him. He has a blog and a website, and I'll see if I can find it.

The thing about Western horses is that a lot of them are QHs and they are, by genetic nature, a generally more laid back animal than a thbd or Irish sport horse. Their nature lends themselves to the western training. So, that's one thing to consider. 
Also, on the opposite side of the coin which you describe , your vision of the good western rider, there are a lot of western riders that (IMHO) are really bad riders, who forces their horse into such a low/slow position that it destroys the horse's natural gaits and makes them look virtually lame. There are W riders who use abusive bits and spurs and endlessly snap the reins to get the horse to tuck his head under. All for a certain "look". We are not immune to fashion and the judgement of the onlooker.

However, I can see what you mean about the general attitude here being more focussed on just enjoying the horse. It is connected to our having so much space, and out long standing worship of the individual. Know what I mean?

Horesmanship is always changing and I wonder if the UK wont' also or isn't already, moving along down the evolutionary trail to a different style. I understand NH is really getting big there, too.
Who knows what is around the corner. Maybe in 25 years people won't ride horses, just walk them like dogs. And dress them and keep them inside the house.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Barry, I had a minor brain fart there and meant to say "Tom Widdicom" , not Tom Moates. Sorry. here is the website.

http://bewithyourhorse.com/rockins.html


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

Tiny I'll look the fellow up - thank your for the tip. 
Monty Roberts has a strong following despite the fact that his thinking is Western. Here he uses in the ring an English rider to demonstrate for him.
His ideas on NH are well received.

The sport is changing here too. We seem to be moving over to more and more arena orientated uses of the horse - dressage, show jumping. The horses are also changing. When I started out we kept cobs - cold bloods. Nowadays it is more blooded horses such as TBs and the Continental breeds. The IDs & Connies are bred to be sharp and the Welsh Cobs for their looks. All three breeds are possibiles for consideration as sports horses.

But a major influence these days is safety and to be honest the risks involved when riding on the British narrow country lanes which are shared with traffic are increasing. To teach a horse to hack out in British rural countryside calls for training, which means the young horse rides out to learn and before it is ready to ride out and away from the barn. The horse must be under full control at all times and that doesn't come easily. It is one of the reasons why we ride 'on the bit' or at least 'collected'. 
It helps if the horses are calm by nature and that mostly comes from the breeding. 

There has also been a lot of legislation to try to ban fox hunting. As the older generations die away, I can see fox hunting declining and in the past it has been the hunting horses which made the best hacking horses.

My own horse DiDi is making excellent progress in the dressage arena but even at 9 years she does not make a bombproof hack - she is too alert, too sharp and too sensitive. As for chasing cows, she would be frightened of a calf. 
My old heavy cob, Joe, was a much better horse to hack out on. Sadly he's gone. Joe was the horse that loved potato crisps.

Times are indeed a changing.

Barry


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Barry, I love reading your posts. As a devout western rider, I can see your place from the other side of the fence. Cori, especially, made very good points about the reasons to ride. I consider myself a 'happy hacker' even though I ride horses for a living, but I don't train with the intention of showing. My customers just want a horse that they can be comfortable riding and being 'happy hackers' themselves. 

I also wanted to mention that the training methods generally seem to be very different as well. From my understanding, most English trained horses are ridden for months or years in the ring before ever going outside (and still more_ never_ see the outside of a fence). However, from day 1, my horses are taught that relaxation is key. I let them carry their head wherever is comfortable for them providing that it isn't dragging the ground or placed squarely in my lap. I am always on a loose rein and the finesse and proper reaction to cues comes later in the training. I want them to be confident and relaxed before I ask them for much. In addition to that, most of my horses never see the inside of a ring. After the first few days of being ridden in a round pen, their training arena is the thousands of acres of land surrounding us. Very seldom do they get a nice, slow, short ride. For the first quite a little while, everywhere we go, we go at a long trot or a lope and it is very seldom under 5 miles that we travel. There are some days that I will spend 7 or 8 hours on a young horse working cattle. I have a feeling that me and your Didi would never get along LOL. I like a horse that I can walk up to in the pasture to catch them, throw my saddle on, step on and lope off with no warm up or shenanigans. This is my arena, this is my training ground and I wonder if maybe that has something to do with the difference in the horse's personality as well.









And though you have gotten an invitation from Kevin, I will throw mine out there as well. If you ever come to Texas again, swing by. I'm sure I've got a horse that will carry you . 

PS, we don't have such big spiders up in my area:wink:.


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

SM - You've made me jealous. That photo maks me realise all I know of Texas is what is alongside the I-10 and there is so much more to see.

I am absolutely positive SMR that as an experienced horse owner/rider/trainer , you'd get to like my DiDi but it might take a month or so to find what is so fascinating about her. She is very intelligent, very sensitive, very capable
and very alert. What makes life difficult for her is the environment in which she now lives that is filled with the clutter of civilisation. A series of owners have taken her down the route of the modern way of riding and she is without doubt a competition horse - she seems to thrive on it, be it modern dressage or show jumping. Sadly that very spirit is what makes her unsuitable for me. When riding her you have to be alert all of the time, you can't relax on her. She also has to be ridden in the modern way - ie collected in a rounded outline. 

I have been spoilt really. My Joe, a common if unusual cob, - of whom there are numerous stories on this forum, was much more suitable for my likes and dislikes. However the horse I rode regularly in 2003-2005 named William, a Welsh cob X Hannoverian gelding was the epitomy of what a good trail riding horse should be. He was never mine to own but he was mine to ride each week. He could cope with the wild moors of central Wales and the comings and goings of small towns. He took me fox hunting and for week long trail rides. I don't write much about him but he was arguably the best horse
for me I have ever discovered. He would have loved Texas. 

As for DiDi, well she'll be my last horse. I am too old to take on another. One good reason for seeing what she can do in the ring is to find her the right sort of sports home. I get some pleasure from watching her do well when Claire rides her in competition but DiDi is so much own self that she doesn't need me
personally - whereas Joe was such a character that he did need me to protect him from the outcome of his misdeeds. 

I've been so lucky to experience what a horse can mean to a human and I know that winning rosettes is merely the tip of the iceberg. Back in the '70s I had not only a horse to wander about on but a labrador called Stomper who would come along too. That really was one of life's privileges.

Barry


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## Tazmanian Devil (Oct 11, 2008)

Barry,

To echo the other comments, excellent story. I enjoyed reading your post.




Barry Godden said:


> But honestly, which of us has the better deal?
> 
> The great advantage of the Western way is that any rider with few words of instruction can sit in the big comfortable saddle and ride a well schooled western horse.


This misunderstanding, I think, is the crux of your dilemma.

A well trained horse is a well trained horse. Good riding is good riding.

I know plenty of "western" trained horses that I would _never_ pair with "any rider with a few words of instruction." Even a well trained western horse can be a problem for a rider that has heavy hands - in that case many english "school" horses would be a better choice because they might be more tolerant to inexperienced hands on the bit.

If you train a horse to be an arena horse, it will be a potential problem on trail. If you have a well rounded horse, it will be more forgiving of different situations and different riders. I don't think this is an english/western thing. At the risk of over-generalizing, I would say that some english schools emphasize the "arena" work while most "western" training emphasizes a more rounded approach. These approach is more consistent with the goal of the training.

On the other side of the coin, compare a horse that knows nothing but western pleasure to a horse that does hunter pace and fox hunting. Which one would you think the better trail horse?

I think the problem also lies in the rider's goals. A young rider taking lessons to show dressage or jumping doesn't want to think "outside the ring." If that competition is popular in your area, the instructors will concentrate on doing what they need to make the student competitive. They are not training horsepeople - they are training kids in a specific sport. The approach is more linear. The higher the level one aspires to, the more focused and linear that training becomes.

While western riders may be more laid back in their approach, some are not without the same mindset. There are barrel horses and reining horses that never see the outside of a ring either.



> As it is, I am even hesitant to ride DiDi in front of the perceptive eyes of her current instructor. After almost 40 years of riding I am reluctant to take my own horse along a country lane because I know she will be skittish in a close urban environment


After 40 years of riding you shouldn't give a hoot what anyone thinks of your riding.  You should ride to please yourself, not others. (And if you aren't happy with your current skills, work to improve them).

In the same vein, after 40 years I am sure you have the skills to train your horse for a ride along a country lane. It is just a matter of getting in the saddle and working on it.

The only danger is that once your horse discovers the wide open world out there, she may realize how terribly boring ring work is. Then she will be the one asking to move to Texas.


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

TD
Fundamentally I agree with all you have said. As I received your post I was in the process of writing another article on similar vein. 

By letting my horse go off to do something she appears to be good at - competitive dressage - I am allowing her to be coached for instant and almost blind obedience which are qualities not always relevant to the world outside of an arena. Maybe I should let her go.

My mare now seeks the bit and the restrictions imposed by the shortened reins - it absolves her of the responsibility of carrying us herself and her rider safely out on the trails. She can shy at a bird flying up from a bush and claim the bird interrupted her concentration. She can startle at a cow because it has horns. And pigs smell.

But you folks out in the land of Oz ( presumably that is where you live) gives you a unique perspective - half Western, half English and wholly Australian.

We Brits are an inhibited race in many ways. Perhaps it is because this crowded little island is filled with so many people and divided up by all the fences, some which were created a thousand years ago. The inhibition shows in how we choose to ride our horses. 

Nowadays, we share the tiny lanes with the traffic amd the horse can be sued for kicking the car's paintwork.

Barry

PS If you look up the photos posted by Paint Horse Mares you'll see that maybe I ought to think of moving to Utah instead of Texas.


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## Tazmanian Devil (Oct 11, 2008)

Barry Godden said:


> TD
> By letting my horse go off to do something she appears to be good at - competitive dressage - I am allowing her to be coached for instant and almost blind obedience which are qualities not always relevant to the world outside of an arena. Maybe I should let her go.


If a child has the talent and desire to become a concert pianist, we shouldn't force them to be a rock guitarist.



> But you folks out in the land of Oz ( presumably that is where you live) gives you a unique perspective - half Western, half English and wholly Australian.


I am curious what gave you the impression I was from down under? Sometime I feel like I am living in Frank Baum's Oz, but I am from New York. Surround by "english" riding, being a western rider puts me in the minority.



> We Brits are an inhibited race in many ways. Perhaps it is because this crowded little island is filled with so many people and divided up by all the fences, some which were created a thousand years ago. The inhibition shows in how we choose to ride our horses.
> 
> Nowadays, we share the tiny lanes with the traffic amd the horse can be sued for kicking the car's paintwork.



Cultural differences... I can't deny they exist. While I will trust you on the "inhibitions" I also seem to recall dressage being descended from the old knights and their warhorse training. Prancing around a battlefield in full armor can hardly be called inhibited. Perhaps you just need to awaken your "inner knight." 

I too live on a crowded little island amid traffic and people who will sue at the drop of a hat. That doesn't stop me from riding my horse down a busy street and going to the fast food drive-thru... or down to the local "pub" and tying my horse to a makeshift hitching post while my friends and I have a beer.

Be a rebel and surely you will find others of a similar mind!


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## Gus (Oct 22, 2010)

western all the way. I was in the (western) saddle before I could walk and had my own pony when I was 2. I even bout my own western saddle at like age 9 or 10. I do barrel racing/pole bending. I don't have fond memories of english....but I do use our old racehorse exercise saddle when I don't feel like throwing the giantic western saddle on my horse hahaha. I don't know if that counts as "English"


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Tazmanian Devil said:


> I am curious what gave you the impression I was from down under? Sometime I feel like I am living in Frank Baum's Oz, but I am from New York. Surround by "english" riding, being a western rider puts me in the minority.


Must admit, I was thinking you were an Aussie as well, given your username  Although given that it is spelled with a 'z' rather than an 's' I guess it is a reference to the Warner Bros. character rather than the real thing?


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

I ride english and western. I want to show English, but I want to do shows for fun and not the competition. I always hate the thought of "I'm better than you." Just have fun with what you're doing.


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## Ktibb (Mar 24, 2010)

I'm kind of mixed. I ride western in an english saddle, if that makes sense. I grew up riding and showing western, as well as trail riding. We had our "show horses" and our "trail Horses" and the the two groups never met. 

Now as an adult I am trying me best to see that my mare is well rounded. She was started western, with a reining foundation, but after discovering how comfortable dressage saddles can be, she is ridden under an English saddle, with a western bridle. Tacky? Maybe. But it works for us, and I can hit the trails, run barrels, and wouldn't shy away from a western pleasure class.


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## Gus (Oct 22, 2010)

I'd like to learn English, but I don't necessarily want it to be the center of my riding. During my bad experience (long story short) They threw a english saddle on my horse (that as far as I knew...never did english!) and they slapped the helmet on my head and said, "Get on, Jump this." I'm all, "......WHAT?!" So bottom line they made me jump it and I fell.....twice....in one night -.-


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

The majority of English riders around here are trail riders 6 days a week. They usually spend one day training for competition, and the rest they are "happy hackers."

It's the Western riders who are the arena freaks, in my area. The WP riders here are some of the most uptight people, but of course there are exceptions in both areas.

I DETEST discipline stereotypes. 

I am an English rider, although I grew up riding Western. I bought Sun to be an Event horse. Does that mean she won't go on trails? Of course not. I adore trail riding, as do many of the other English riders here.


There are Western riders who, as soon as they hear that I ride in an English saddle, suddenly assume that I'm a stuck-up, rich brat. Far from the truth.

If all I cared about was winning I would have bought a trained eventer, not a $500 long yearling that needs two-three years before she sees a jump.

Those assumptions make me sad, and disgusted.
I don't assume that you're a back country hick because you choose to ride Western, so don't assume I'm a ribbon-happy brat because I choose to ride English. Ignorance is NOT bliss, it's ignorance.

I don't view one discipline better than another. I have my preferences, but that doesn't mean the others are any less worthy of respect. 

In either situation, you are putting yourself on the back of a 1200 pound, unpredictable animal, and that deserves respect.

This isn't directed toward anyone, just my sentiments on the whole debate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ktibb (Mar 24, 2010)

Gus said:


> I'd like to learn English, but I don't necessarily want it to be the center of my riding. During my bad experience (long story short) They threw a english saddle on my horse (that as far as I knew...never did english!) and they slapped the helmet on my head and said, "Get on, Jump this." I'm all, "......WHAT?!" So bottom line they made me jump it and I fell.....twice....in one night -.-


Ugh... that is terrible! Sounds a lot like the first time I rode in English tack... "Get on, this is how you post, that is what 2 point is, now do it over that jump". 

I didn't fall but it was a very close one and it really soured me on english. I was sour on it until last summer when a friend let me try out her dressage saddle for a long trail ride. After 7 hours in that saddle and no soreness I changed my tune and bought one for myself!


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

Sunny said:


> The majority of English riders around here are trail riders 6 days a week. They usually spend one day training for competition, and the rest they are "happy hackers."
> 
> It's the Western riders who are the arena freaks, in my area. The WP riders here are some of the most uptight people, but of course there are exceptions in both areas.
> 
> ...



Agreed. I love riding english for jumping, and I love riding western for trails and and just pleasure. My horse was only 600 and she's a great horse. Unfortunately there's always gonna be a stereotype for everything, and there are some english AND Western riders who are stuck up. It's not the saddle that makes someone stuck up. It's the attitude of the PERSON that makes someone stuck up or not. I absolutely despise those type of people who are "Look at how good I am! You can't beat me!" I just laugh in their face when they lose


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## Gus (Oct 22, 2010)

Ktibb-It was horrible the first time I fell and landed on my feet, by his shoulder. It looked like I was going to mount! The second time don't ask me how it happened but my head and my right arm was between his front legs!!!!!! Bless my horse, he stopped and I was extremely light headed saying, "HEY! PRINCE! What are you doing riding me? I'm supposed to be riding you! HAHAHAHA!" I absoluetly hated the teacher she didn't come over to see if I was ok, my friends had to do that. She just kept sayin, "That is a fabulous horse." I'm thinkin, "I know.....NOW WHAT ABOUT ME?!!?!?!?!?" If my horse kept running, his back feet would have probably hit my chest or head. 

If someone was actually gonna teach me instead of ingoring me when I fall...I wouldn't say no, I want to learn!


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## Cowgirl101 (Oct 12, 2010)

I'm Western, though I want to learn English.
I see western as a use on the farm, like roping, cutting. 
English I see, more of a showing riding type. Nothing wrong with that I love to show.


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## Gus (Oct 22, 2010)

agreed!


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## Cowgirl101 (Oct 12, 2010)

Gus said:


> agreed!


With me?
Awesome!


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## Gus (Oct 22, 2010)

Ya I see it the exact same way I mean you can't necessarily rope in an english saddle...but that doesn't mean I have anything against it. I want to learn so bad...the right way. But western you can go far as well


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## Ktibb (Mar 24, 2010)

Gus said:


> Ktibb-It was horrible the first time I fell and landed on my feet, by his shoulder. It looked like I was going to mount! The second time don't ask me how it happened but my head and my right arm was between his front legs!!!!!! Bless my horse, he stopped and I was extremely light headed saying, "HEY! PRINCE! What are you doing riding me? I'm supposed to be riding you! HAHAHAHA!" I absoluetly hated the teacher she didn't come over to see if I was ok, my friends had to do that. She just kept sayin, "That is a fabulous horse." I'm thinkin, "I know.....NOW WHAT ABOUT ME?!!?!?!?!?" If my horse kept running, his back feet would have probably hit my chest or head.
> 
> If someone was actually gonna teach me instead of ingoring me when I fall...I wouldn't say no, I want to learn!


It still amazes me the people that carry the title of 'instructor'.

I wasn't taking lessons, but volunteering at a therepudic riding center in hopes of getting back into the horse scene after 10 years out (this was 6 years ago, before I had my current mare). I made sure to tell the 'instructor' that I had never ridden english, nor jumped anything and that I hadn't been on a horse in 10 years. Didn't seem to matter to her so long as the horse got some excercise!

All I can say is thank goodness for the internet! It has opened my eyes to so many short comings in the horse worls, as well as helped me to learn to do my homework before going to an instructor, or finding a trainer. It's really SO worth it to put in a little forethought and time. Hard lessons we learn, lol!


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## Ktibb (Mar 24, 2010)

I too would love to leant some proper technique. I mostly just fell in love with how darned comfortable the sadles can be! My knees are in agony if I spend more than 2 hours in my western saddle (granted it's just a big horn and not a top of the line model) but had no issues after 7 hours in a KN dressage saddle. I would also love love LOVE to learn how to jump.


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## Gus (Oct 22, 2010)

I know "how" to jump it just isn't that graceful XD

But if you want to call it "english" when I don't want to throw the western saddle on I will throw the exercise saddle....I don't call that english cause it isn't for jumping or dressage...it is really just there....


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## Cowgirl101 (Oct 12, 2010)

English is good not saying it's better or worse. I just think western is more useful. You can't rope in a english saddle, wouldn't think you could cut...
I would love to learn jumping.  And cross.


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

Just to throw this out there....
In the practice arena at shows I'd run the barrel pattern in English. As long as a horn isn't required, you can do just about anything in English.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

In Britain young riders belonging to BHS Pony clubs compete regularly at mounted games on very sharp ponies. Look up on the internet: 'HOYS'. The riders would all make formidable competition at barrel racing. They use only English style saddles usually G(eneral)P(urpose)s


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## Gus (Oct 22, 2010)

I know you can barrel race but you can't "rope" in an english saddle. I do agree with cowgirl, I prefer western but definately want to learn english


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

Of course you can't rope. That requires a horn.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cowgirl101 (Oct 12, 2010)

Sunny said:


> Of course you can't rope. That requires a horn.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yepper, but in shows you have to have a western saddle for barrels, just like cutting.


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## Ktibb (Mar 24, 2010)

Sunny said:


> Just to throw this out there....
> In the practice arena at shows I'd run the barrel pattern in English. As long as a horn isn't required, you can do just about anything in English.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was going to ask if anyone did any gaming in an english saddle here. I just bought a dressage saddle because I felt more secure in it than I do my western (not to mention comfortable) and was thinking about giving it a shot.


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## Tazmanian Devil (Oct 11, 2008)

You can do many "english" things in a western saddle and many "western" things in an english saddle, When you get to a certain level of performance, you will need the right tool for the right job.

There is a reason barrel racers use "barrel saddles" and cutters use "cutting saddles." The saddles are each designed for a specific purpose. Sure, you can barrel race in an english saddle, but there is a reason that the pros don't.  By the same token, you can jump in a western saddle, but you wouldn't want to compete on any high jumps in a barrel or cutting saddle (both have high horns).


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

No one is understanding my point, so I'm going to let that topic go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## xXEquestrianBalletXx (Jan 3, 2011)

I feel this is a wonderful topic. Everyone is so open minded.
I come from both sides of the fence. I've ridden and shown western, as well as english.
To be quite honest, they are both hand in hand.
True, western riders tend to be more relaxed. To ride simply because they love to ride. Whereas english riders tend to focus more on competition, and progressing in their riding and their horses training.
I love the harmony of horse and rider connecting, and I strive to be the best rider I can- above and beyond what my abilities are. I love dressage. However, there is something alluring to me of not just western, but bareback riding as well. I suppose it more depends on life goals. This why i'm at a cross-road.
You see, my horse is a truly all around horse. She is quite the trail horse, yet she knows a good gallop, and she knows a good collected canter (the canter, however, is a work in progress). If I were to have a horse strictly for competition, I would not be here, typing this sanely today. To have a horse is to be a joy. If you cannot find that joy with your current riding, ride differently. Without the pure joy of riding, riding loses it's cause for being.


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## HopalongCassidy (Dec 19, 2010)

OK, i didn't read the whole thread cause i want to say what i think,

1. I ride Western and always will, But English looks fun, Especially jumping. '

2.This should say sum everything up, I got this from a Western v.s. English video i was taking to a girl(Western Rider) i didn't like what see said so defended English riding. Here our conversation,

Her: i like western﻿ better because we care more about our horses! (not trying to start a fight)

Me: What do you think﻿ saying thats going to do?

Her: Start a fight but i don't care!﻿

Me: Well i can see a smart a-word b-word starting a fight that thinks there better then everyone. and Apparently you do. Cause your just asking for a fight. And if you want it im here. kinda funny you attracted me to that comment you made and i ride western but have no problem backing up English even though i don't﻿ even ride that way. And for some one that is 29 this is really immature and that video of Smokey. If thats you riding how do you make your self look so young. MsKenzie666 not 999

HEHE (not very nice thing at the end but she made me mad)

Her: actually i dont think im better than anyone else! i just dissaprove of jumping strongly (my opinnion) i ride english to and that comment wasnt really to english rider it was﻿ more to jumping! and im not really 29 i dont want creepy people knowing my real age! and youtube suggested that name so i just went with it cause i couldnt think of anything else

Me: Kinda funny you ride English but wouldn't mind talking trash about how they don't take care of there horses like western people. you must not take care of your horses cause you﻿ said you ride both. You walked right into that one. If your going to say anything make sure your fact are straight. go back and read what you put. does it say TO JUMPERS? No.

Someone else: You're a moron.

To all﻿ of you in the English discipline-ignore her.

To state such an ignorant statement makes you look pathetically stupid.

I ride western, but I respect those that ride English. English requires just as much skill. (To Her)

Her: im not saying it doesnt i believe that english riders are better...but i just hate show﻿ jumping and stuff (To someone else)

Me: Now your﻿ saying English is better. Wow. never found someone that can't make up there mind.

Her:the riders are better riders, yes! but the jumping no! i just﻿ disprove of jumping

Me:Well now you just offended me cause i ride Western and you just said that English rides better. I think we ride the same! And jumpers. Well if they like what there doing and the horse likes what there doing well....... theres only one thing for them to do. Do what they like to do. People go by what there horses like. My horse likes to barrel race. so he barrel races. I don't make him do﻿ it and i'm not going to stop making him do it. Its really all about your horse and what they like

Her:i ride western mainly to! and the last comment came out wrong what i meant by that was riding english makes you a better rider! i think it does take a little bit more to do! (not calling western easy) i think most﻿ english riders are amazing riders! but i really think english takes more muscle than anything

Some one else: Do you always change your mind under pressure 

The skills are matched in﻿ both disciplines, just in different ways.

Her:no i dont just the things im saying arent coming out as they did in my head lol (To some one else)

Me: And since i couldn't say this in the last comment. if you like something your horses doesn't. Well that horse isn't for you.If i rode English and liked to Dressage and my horse hated Dressage but love barrel racing. Well as hard as it would be for me then i would sale the horse to a western ride so they can have a horse that enjoys to barrel race.You see in time you will learn its not all about you you﻿ you.I learned. Even in general if you and your horse don't get along well sell it

Seem a little harsh but she need to be told before she dug her self deep and got her self beat up or whatever.

So you got my opinion of what i think.


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

Cassidy,
Poor communication skills coupled with ignorance has caused many a fight and even wars. The two systems of riding have evolved over the centuries and have developed in order to meet the differing needs of the rider. Neither is system better than the other, they are different.

Stacey Westfall rides with incredible skill wearing a cowboy hat, and without needing reins, bit or saddle. Watch the videos and be amazed.
A Grand Prix dressage rider makes a ride on a horse to music look like ballet.

Stacey would not feel comfortable in a European dressage arena and I don't know of a dressage rider who would ride in an arena without a saddle and a full bridle set.

Spending a day rounding up steers is way beyond my stamina and skill level.
Riding to hounds chasing a pesky fox for a day with the Quorn Hunt in Leicestershire can cost you your spine. 

If someone says to me come ride my western trained horse, I'd have to occasionally ask for guidance. If a knowledeable Western rider friend came to the UK and asked to ride my horse, then I'd show him where the pedals and the brakes are hidden.

But, a badly trained, ignorant, heavy handed, coarse, unfeeling, rider shouldn't be let near a good horse, whether it is English schooled or Western trained.


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## HopalongCassidy (Dec 19, 2010)

So what are you telling me? Barry Godden

I know that if i tried English i'd be like AHHHH! what do i do, cause i'm no English rider. But still wondering what that has to do with the conversation i had with that girl had. I like both and i'll defend both.


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## HopalongCassidy (Dec 19, 2010)

Say this isn't really a v.s. thread it about does English have the same riding skills as Western or does western have the same skills English, There is not different to me but the saddle and disciplines. Other then that you got a horse your setting on its back your controlling it with a bridle or halter/hacmore or how ever it's spelled, and your having fun. People think one is better then the other, if anyone can prove that to me i'll take back every think i said.


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

Cassidy,
What I am telling - neither the Western style of riding nor the English style of riding is better, but they are different and designed for different purposes.

If we ever met, I'd show you as a Western rider how to sit on an English saddle, on an English trained horse in the sincere hope that you enjoyed the ride - once you had learned how to tell my horse what to do.

Then maybe, we turn around and you'd show me how better to sit a Western
trained horse, kitted up with a Western saddle. You might even show me how to use a lariat.

I'd show you how to hold the reins English, you'd show me how to hold the reins Western

I'd show you how to keep contact with the horse's mouth through the bit,
you'd show me how to let the horse have full control of its neck,

I'd show you that my horse is scared stiff of cows, 
you show me how to chase a herd of steers

and we'd both have fun. Which is what playing with horses should be all about.

B G


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

*Western to English*

That's me on the left on the palomino , a thousand light years ago in a snooty Surrey village parade in the middle of the world of riding English


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## HopalongCassidy (Dec 19, 2010)

I see what your talking about, It's kinda funny thinking about how a style can change how we ride. Like you said about how to sit. It funny that we each have a different way of doing so, How to hold the reins and everything else. Not being mean or anything but it seem that the way an English rider rides is like showing off and a western rider are more just out there.(I may have sentenced that wrong but thats the only way i could sentence it.) NOT being mean but look at this video It's funny but nice at the same time I can see by this that it is very hard to go from your usually style to a new one with out even taking lessons, This video show exactly what you just told me, I think this videos Beautiful


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

Cassidy,
Thank you for posting that video. It is said that a picture is worth a thousand words, that video speaks millions of words.

It illustrates what I have always said about the comparison between Western and English - a good rider can ride in either system with the minium of readjustment.

All it takes is two good knowlegeable riders and two well schooled horses

B G


In the US I get the impression from viewing from across the Atlantic, that the
perceived difference between the English way of riding and the Western is that English riders and horses jump - yes , many of us do but not all. I haven't jumped a horse in years and neither has my wife.

Apart from the design of the saddle with a horn, the big difference I perceive is that the English tend - repeat tend, to hold the horse permanently in check on a collected rein and then let it go; whereas the Westerner leaves the horse loose on a long rein then asks it to stop.


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