# Can anyone tell me what is going on in this video?



## ThatNinjaHorse (Jul 26, 2009)

Its not very clear so i cant be sure but he does look hobbled maybe.
I hate watching stuff like this


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

Im not sure be he sure does seem frightened.


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## Carleen (Jun 19, 2009)

My guess is that his legs are tied together.. if they weren't, I bet someone would have been injured with the way he was freaking out. Poor guy.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

That's SUPER weird because for the most part, I don't really see his legs as tied together. I don't know if it's different horses, but the one being more "calm" and doing a steroid version of the piaffe obviously has free use of his legs. The one who is freaking out and trying to lay down doesn't appear to be really "restrained".

If I had my guess, these animals (animal?) seem to be severely abused and neurotic. They're jumping out of their skin, and getting so worked up they can't even think about what they're supposed to be doing. Which I think is the point, because somehow crazy horses look "spirited" and "free". :-|


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## Carleen (Jun 19, 2009)

There's definitely something around their legs at least, but now that MM mentions it there are parts where one of the legs moves quite independently from the other.. so perhaps they aren't actually tied together.

Either way, whatever is going on with those horses is saddening.


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## draftrider (Mar 31, 2010)

MM I think you are right, its hard to see because it is poor quality video. I don't think his legs are tied. I just can't figure it out. It does look like 2 different horses in the video? There are a lot of "dancing horses" on youtube.


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## speedy da fish (May 7, 2009)

hmm. I dont like it 

s/he is hobbled I can see it in some shots, not all though. Just looks cruel to me.


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## AfterParty (Jun 4, 2010)

He looks hobbled .... people make me sick I cant stand forgien countries that do horrible things to animals.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Seriously people??? Scared? Abused?

The Attan is a traditional afghan dance.

Have any of you ever seen dressage done in hand?

Boiled down to simple terms that those of you with one track minds can understand - these folks are teaching the horse to dance.


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## LoveStory10 (Oct 31, 2009)

That is just shocking! Oh my goodness!


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## dizzynurse (Jul 7, 2010)

My husband tells me I have a one track mind all the time so I can say still dont think it looks good!LOL


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

The horse looks to have something tying his legs together but they're not hobbles, nor are they really hindering his movement.

Also, the video has been speeded up to make it look more 'dramatic'.

I don't see a frightened, abused horse. I see one making a concentrated effort to do as his handler is asking.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

mls pardon our ignorance but we don't really have a clue what is going on there. I know I have never seen anything like that before. 

Because I hate to be judgemental, I reviewed the video. There is obviously two horses. The first is calm. He is pretty easy to watch. Its hard to tell with the grainy video but he doesnt seem tethered, hobbled or even really held back. 

The second horse, on the other hand, appears to be in a full panic. This could be artfully trained but it sure looks like panic to me. Since I am not familiar with this type of exhibition...how would I know otherwise? 

Since you seem to know what is going on there, do you have any other information on this? Why do they train their horses to dance? How do they do it? Why did one horse look night and day different from the other? Is general dancing what they are going for or is the calm horse more the goal...or is the paniced horse the goal? 

All I ever commented on this video was that the horse looked frightened. The last horse does look frightened.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Corino, the title of the video tells you what the horse is doing. I am guessing that is how MLS figured it out too. 

I do not think the second horse looks abused or even panicked. There is a little bit where he looks like he is trying very hard to do what he is asked but is a little confused. But not panicked. 


It is pretty cool to watch these ponies dancing in hand like this. Interesting for sure.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

corinowalk said:


> do you have any other information on this?


If you watched the video - you would see the scroll bar that offers instructional videos for sale.


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## AfterParty (Jun 4, 2010)

Everyone will have their own opinion and it just so happens most people don't agree with a horse being hobbled and taught something against it's will. That horse really doesn't look to happy to me . A happy horse doesn't have their ears back and thrash around like that. If the horse was dancing it wouldn't look so terrifying ... more pretty.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

AfterParty said:


> Everyone will have their own opinion and it just so happens most people don't agree with a horse being hobbled and taught something against it's will. That horse really doesn't look to happy to me . A happy horse doesn't have their ears back and thrash around like that. If the horse was dancing it wouldn't look so terrifying ... more pretty.


:lol: 

Taught something against their will, hu?

Did the horse in your avatar photo volunteer to bend at the pole to that extreme or did you have to teach the horse to do that? 

I could easily say that you taught the horse that against its will.

Horses move their ears to listen and pay attention. Ears perked forward all the time is not a realistic thing. Again, reference your avatar photo.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

AfterParty said:


> horse being hobbled and taught something against it's will. That horse really doesn't look to happy to me . A happy horse doesn't have their ears back and thrash around like that. If the horse was dancing it wouldn't look so terrifying ... more pretty.


So your horse is always happy and complies readily to learning new things?


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

Ok so I went and looked at half a dozen other dancing horse videos on youtube and found out a bit more. While I still dont agree that the horse in this video is calm and happy about doing its job...he does seem to be the exception to the rule. I would guess that the horses are supposed to look fast and dramatic about the dancing. There is one really nice video on youtube that has a white horse doing the dance and it is quite beautiful. I never claimed abuse...I just didn't think that horse particularly cared for his job. The white horse, on the other hand, seems proud to do it. Needed very little coaxing to start and actually looked like he was dancing. Inbetween dances, you can see his handlers petting and loving on him. 



 
I am no judge of this type of talent but I would rather watch the white horse dance than the scramble legged horse in the other video


Edit to state: With the 'abuse' mindset, we can find abuse in every single thing we do with horses. This Attan is new to me...I had never seen it before. Which to me, makes it unfamilar...but not abuse. Think of every single thing you do with a horse and it can be classified by SOMEONE as abuse.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

The white horse does seem to have it more polished.

I am guessing the second horse in the other video is a greener version. The white horse shows what the darker horse is learning to do.

Good find on that video.


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## AfterParty (Jun 4, 2010)

Alwaysbehind said:


> :lol:
> 
> Taught something against their will, hu?
> 
> ...


My horse has always had a natural headset since I started riding her , I've actually left her to do her own thing. If she want's her head down she has it down if she want's it up she has it up. I have never actually pushed my horse to do something she didnt want to do . I ask her to do things and because I have spent so much ground time with her we have a very good bond. I take the time to work on things by ASKING , not making


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## AfterParty (Jun 4, 2010)

mls said:


> So your horse is always happy and complies readily to learning new things?


Actually she does ! I NEVER make my horse do anything and I can say that honestly I ASK her to do things I don't push her. She has always been a willing horse to learn and I would never put a tie down or anything on my horse.I've had her since she was a year old and have spent countless hours working with her on the ground building up a trust so there is never a disagreement on ASKING her to do things, we have a really great bond.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

AfterParty said:


> My horse has always had a natural headset since I started riding her , I've actually left her to do her own thing. If she want's her head down she has it down if she want's it up she has it up. I have never actually pushed my horse to do something she didnt want to do . I ask her to do things and because I have spent so much ground time with her we have a very good bond. I take the time to work on things by ASKING , not making


Uh hu......


But...her ears are not up....


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## AfterParty (Jun 4, 2010)

Then how would you explain her ears not being up while walking around a field or ring on her own ? She is just a horse to have her ears not forward , horses dont have their ears up 24/7.

There is no point of argueing you really I know how I work with my horse and everyone has their own opinions. You think that video and what they do is nice and okay I on the other hand don't . Thats my opinion I respect yours but I dont respect you questioning me and my ways of training and horses.


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## wannahorse22 (Dec 27, 2009)

I am kinda intrigued by this  Do you think that is hard on their joints?? Just wondering.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

AfterParty said:


> Then how would you explain her ears not being up while walking around a field or ring on her own ? She is just a horse to have her ears not forward , horses dont have their ears up 24/7.


You are the one who noted the horse in the videos ears were not up and that meant the horse was not happy.

So it is OK for your horse to not have its ears up and we are to believe your horse is happy.

But another horse that you do not like what it is doing can not be happy, since its ears are not up.

Do I have that right?

Let me quote you again in case you forgot what you said before:



AfterParty said:


> A happy horse doesn't have their ears back


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## KatCashen (Aug 17, 2010)

umm i can see there front legs are tied together!!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

KatCashen said:


> umm i can see there front legs are tied together!!


In the video of the gray horse there is something around his front legs but there is nothing tying them together. (If there is it has to be very long because at times his legs are not very close together.)

The horses in the other video might have the same bands on the legs.


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## AfterParty (Jun 4, 2010)

Alwaysbehind said:


> You are the one who noted the horse in the videos ears were not up and that meant the horse was not happy.
> 
> So it is OK for your horse to not have its ears up and we are to believe your horse is happy.
> 
> ...


Yes you are right I said that, my horses ears arent pinned to the back of her head and she is also not thrashing around.


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## wannahorse22 (Dec 27, 2009)

Afterparty and alwaysbehind, stop fighting. its annoying. just don't reply to eachother


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

wannahorse22 said:


> I am kinda intrigued by this  Do you think that is hard on their joints?? Just wondering.


Not any harder than dressage, eventing, reining, etc. Maybe even easier since they are not trying to balance a rider too.


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## wannahorse22 (Dec 27, 2009)

oh, ok. I get it now Now that i think of it though...everything we do with horses is probably hard on their joints


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## Mickey4793 (Sep 24, 2009)

looks like some classic dressage movements, but with no rider. I see nothing tying the legs together but rather two bands.. like bracelets [wondering if they're for decorative purposes?] The first horse looks very familiar with the movements, no hesitations at all. The other horse looks confused at some points but not frightened or panicked.

I can't imagine how much training it would take to achieve this, it looks liek the movements are really complicated at times!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Mickey4793 said:


> looks like some classic dressage movements, but with no rider.


That was my thought too. Kind of like what you see when you see the Lipizzaner show.



Mickey4793 said:


> I see nothing tying the legs together but rather two bands.. like bracelets [wondering if they're for decorative purposes?]


I wonder if maybe they do put some type of high hobble on when they are teaching them the movement and putting the bands on is their way of saying 'time to go to work now'. Kind of like seeing eye dogs are when they put their lead harness on.



Mickey4793 said:


> The first horse looks very familiar with the movements, no hesitations at all. The other horse looks confused at some points but not frightened or panicked.


Yes, exactly.



wannahorse22 said:


> Afterparty and alwaysbehind, stop fighting. its annoying. just don't reply to eachother


:lol:


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## wannahorse22 (Dec 27, 2009)

^^^^^^^
Hey...it had to be done  lol!


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## MeganAndPastick (Aug 9, 2010)

When that black horse is "dancing" i think it loks horrible and sloppy..It doesnt appeal to me at all


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

I saw a picture of this in a book. They put metal bands around the horse's pasterns, but I'm not sure if it's for training or decoration.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

I was just worried that if their legs were tied together the might step on it? or get tangled? 

The first video in some parts didn't look all pretty IMO BUT, these are just clips of the show, maybe like in the second video they praised the black horse(s?) it just doesn't show it in the video..


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## draftrider (Mar 31, 2010)

Alright- I am sorry for posting the video. I had no clue what was going on. I never said it was abusive. I simply asked if anyone knew what the videos were about. 

I am sorry if it caused arguments and hard feelings. It certainly wasn't my intent. 

I do think the second dark horse seems confused, more so than terrified. His jerky movements disturbed me, kind of reminded me of the movie The Grudge.

The white horse was very pretty.

They do have bracelet things on- but the white horse is a much better video and you can see there is no hobbling.


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## Carleen (Jun 19, 2009)

Don't apologize draftrider, this thread has definitely taught me (and I'm sure quite a few others) something new!

I agree that the black horse seemed kind of creepy with the way he was moving.. but someone else mentioned that they thought the video was sped up which could definitely make it seem worse than it actually is.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Yeah! It was a kool video!


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## JumperStride (Jul 1, 2010)

That's actually really neat, seeing the white horse get down low like that, very cool to watch. I can't even begin to imagine how thats taught xD 'ok horsey now bend down a little and dance a bit' none of my guys would be up for it I can tell you that!


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

The attan has been around since the dawn of man/horse...mostly in the middle east. These are ultimately well trained horses who are greatly prized. I am sure that, as in all of our riding disciplines, you can find bad examples. The first two horses are fairly green and I believe one has hobbles. I see saddleseat riders use hobbles while riding, so how is this worse?

The attan really tries to teach horses to go as low as they can go. How about that white horse for haunch engagement?? I saw a video of one that was so low that only the tips of its front hooves touched the ground. They only expect it to hold that movement for brief periods, so I don't find it abusive.

Remember, people post videos on youtube that shows any horse at any stage of training. The first video may never have meant to show a horse at the height of training.


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## Pro (Apr 23, 2009)

A little bit more info from someone:

"Your mentioning of the Horse dance has given me a flash back  I'm pretty sure that your daughter must have loved it. I love it too, and you simply can’t imagine the feeling/sensation of looking at this dance in person. 

Horse Dance, which by the way is not only performed on the weddings but also during many local & folk exhibitions, is mainly a feature/part of Punjabi Culture. Especially in rural areas of Punjab horse dance is considered as essential part of celebrations (Punjab is one of the four provinces of Pakistan) (Same is being replaced by Camel Dance in Sindi & Balochi culture).

The horses trained for this purpose are not thoroughbreds, usually a local breeds are trained which are, when compared with thoroughbreds, are smaller in size. Mostly White or Black horses are preferred to be trained for dance. (Just because of being more beautiful looking). Most people prefer to train mares rather than horses. (Am not really sure why is that, will have to ask my father or uncles ).

Dance is usually performed on the beat of a Drum (called “Dholl” in indo Pak), use of clarinet and “Ghungroos” (large number of small bells tied together) is also very common. Ghungroos, mostly in Red Color are also tied to the front legs of the horse, (which by the way produce a very beautiful rhythmic sound and it seems that even the animal is enjoying his ability to create this sound)

The horse is handled by his handler while dancing and is not ridden by anyone at that time. (People anyways avoid riding the horses trained to dance.) 

As far as training of the horses is concerned; well there are no steal plates in their legs . Nothing unnatural is introduced in their body. Use of harsh methods? Well Harsh Training methods is a relative term, and it really depends what you consider as harsh and what is acceptable for you.

My personal opinion in this regard is that no harsh training techniques are used to train the dancing horses. During initial stages horse whips are used to give commands, which of course cause pain, but don’t make a "crack” and is as necessary as in case of training of other such animals.

Later on, during the dance whips (made of ropes) are used to make a loud sharp sound, to provide direction and command to animals."

Pakistan Horse Dance? - Yahoo! Answers


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Very interesting!  And compared to other sports? What about soreing? Thats horrible!


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## MeganAndPastick (Aug 9, 2010)

Dont' blame is on yourself Draftrider. I'm sure you posted it out of ciriosity(sp lol)?


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

wannahorse22 said:


> ^^^^^^^
> Hey...it had to be done  lol!


Um no. But you can think that if it makes you feel better.


Draftrider, I agree with the others. Nothing to be sorry for. We all learned something. Very interesting stuff, really.


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## Lunarflowermaiden (Aug 17, 2010)

Mickey4793 said:


> looks like some classic dressage movements, but with no rider. I see nothing tying the legs together but rather two bands.. like bracelets [wondering if they're for decorative purposes?] The first horse looks very familiar with the movements, no hesitations at all. The other horse looks confused at some points but not frightened or panicked.
> 
> I can't imagine how much training it would take to achieve this, it looks liek the movements are really complicated at times!


They are mostly likely a series of bells. 

Similar to these.
Dancing Horse | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
or these
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/192/502664944_350616c784.jpg


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

That makes sense Lunar. Thanks for posting that.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Those were really kool pictures!


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