# I finally broke down and called animal cruelty



## RusticWildFire (Jul 6, 2008)

You definitely did the right thing. They can do their investigation and find out the whole story and do what's best. Good for you for calling! 

It's sad that some people just can't have what they want (in this case a horse), but that's just the way it is. No reason the horses have to suffer for his "enjoyment".


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

C'mon, economy has NOTHING to do with it. If you have no money at all to feed and no place to keep and no desire to actually care (cleaning poops and brushing horses) - don't buy one in first place. And no, I'm not talking about people having horses, who had some unfortunate change in life (like divorce or loss of job) then may be you can go with the cheaper hay or ask friends or even rescue to help - people will always give you a hand, always! This situation is just pure ignorance and you did a right thing!


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> Anyway, he stated out with one horse, who *looks* shaggy, unbrushed and it can stick its head through the guys window. Then he got two more and they live in a pen that is so small they don't have room to run. *I doubt* they have had any vet attention, there is debres all around, and they have no shelter. I had the last straw when the dog ran out into the road and I almost hit him, so I slowed down to make sure he ran back home and i got a good look at the horses. They had two inches of snow and ice on them and *from what I could tell* they were really boney.


Sorry to be a naysayer - But most of what you have posted is opinion and not facts. Do they look like they need vetrinary attention for any wounds/disease? Do they look sick? If it is snowing, I would HOPE they look shaggy! A small pen is no different to being stalled, except it isn't closed in.

Maybe it would have been worth having a chat to the guy - Oh hey, I noticed you got some horses, I have horses too! So on. You should try not to let any prejudices get in the way of your judgement.

I'd be pretty peeved if someone called AC on me bacsue my horse was in a yard, no shelter, and shaggy. My horses are always out with no shelter and shaggy in winter - And they are all fat and happy.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

Well, unless she's blind, I'd say she can see the difference between a well-fed, dirty and fuzzy horse and a starved dirty and fuzzy horse. 

Personally if I was in that position, if someone called the SPCA or whatnot on me, even if their investigation revealed nothing, that would be a wake up call to me that maybe I should change a few things, like build a run-in and maybe get the icicles off of my horses belly. If I was really adventurous, I'd but them each a blanket.

I definitely would have done the same thing....probably would have taken the dog home with me too, just to see if the guy actually noticed it was missing or not.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

And that^^ is what we call stealing. And you can be prosecuted for it.


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## Maverick101 (Nov 8, 2009)

wild_spot said:


> Sorry to be a naysayer - But most of what you have posted is opinion and not facts. Do they look like they need vetrinary attention for any wounds/disease? Do they look sick? If it is snowing, I would HOPE they look shaggy! A small pen is no different to being stalled, except it isn't closed in.
> 
> Maybe it would have been worth having a chat to the guy - Oh hey, I noticed you got some horses, I have horses too! So on. You should try not to let any prejudices get in the way of your judgement.
> 
> I'd be pretty peeved if someone called AC on me bacsue my horse was in a yard, no shelter, and shaggy. My horses are always out with no shelter and shaggy in winter - And they are all fat and happy.


I have to agree with Wildspot here.
I had this happen to me first hand.....

Had an older rescue, that was skin and bones. She was on stall rest for about a month due to different ailments...but once she was well enough she was in a smaller corral which was located along side our driveway...(which happened to be visible from the road). She had already gained around 100lbs at this point, but still had LOADS of weight to go. We honestly thought she was going to die, the first month we had her.
The reason she was in a smaller corral was due to some hock and hoof injuries she had, and she wasn't to do a lot of moving around, but she still needed some excersice, as well as the grass, fresh air...seeing other horses, after being on stall rest for so long.

Well wouldnt you know, after about a week of her outside, we get the SPCA on our property a Lady had complained that our horse looked, boney, was in a small corral, and looked grubby and sad. 
Uh...yeah...she was grubby...she only a month ago was a blink away from death! 

This lady did not take the time to drive in our place to see all the other horses, fat, happy and healthy. She did not take the time to ask...Why?
I would of happily explained why.
Needless to say the SPCA left within minutes of arriving, and seeing our facility our horses, and what we were doing to aid the recovery of this mare. 

So yeah, its best to get all the FACTS, and ask questions before jumping to conculsions!


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> She did not take the time to ask...Why?
> I would of happily explained why.


 
And this is USUALLY the way the situation goes. It could all be cleared up by just asking a question or two.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

Well, if the man wanted his dog back, all he would have to do is come and get it. It would be as simple as knocking on my front door, or even posting flyers to which I would respond. A dog running out into the middle of the road is one that I would consider a stray, and so by picking it up I'd save it from most likely being actually hit by a car. I've picked up lost dogs in and around my neighborhood before, and luckily, even though these dog do not have tags, I knew who they belonged to, and had no problems telling them when they opened their door to by a collar and put a county tag on it. While I had this dog in my custody, it would also give me an opportunity to examine, and possibly document, the condition of the dog. Check for fleas, ticks, general body condition, and whether or not the dog has had water recently. If a man doesn't care for his dog, he probably isn't caring for his horses.

If the dog had gotten out by accident, then I'm sure the man would be relieved that I had so graciously decided to pick it up, rather than leave it to become road kill.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

_I think the OP did the right think, I actually thought about this and when she reported it, she would have told them what she saw. SPCA/RSPCA know EXACTLY what she sad, so they can choose to make a big deal out of it, or a phone call. As for the dog, I would have watched that it went home and then if it hadn't picked it up and taken it back to the owner and said "Heyy, your dog was on the road and I noticed you had horses, so do I" . So what I'm trying to say is, if the SPCA are not worried about it they won't make a big deal. Its their choice in the end._


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## crimsoncrazy25 (May 24, 2009)

maybe he's gonna eat them too


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

I think if any one of you saw the horses then you would do the same. I can tell the difference between a horse that just needs some TLC vs. a horse that needs to get out of the situation it's in. 

The horses are in a paddock, too small for them. You need so much room for one horse. The three horses are in one that isn't big enough for one. My horses get winter coats too and they look scuzy but you can't see my horses back and hip bones. You know it must be bad when you can see their hip bones, through the horses winter hair. 

They are standing in a pile of debres, like shingles from the roof, wood, and junk. Things they could all get cut on. I think if the vet did come to give them attention then the vet would do something about the situation they're in. Or atleast tell them to clean up around the area. They have been there for a few months. 

I also understand when people said "i had a horse that looked skinny once, but she was just old". All three of the horses are skinny, even the foal. So something must be wrong. 

They also have no shelter, what so ever, everyday it snows they have snow and ice on them.

And the fence they have is cow/chicken wire, and they are nailed to the trees. The other side of the fence is wire fence but is wrapped around the tree.

What if one of the horses gets out and gets hit?. I live on a major road.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

No offence, but I don't want to go to this guys house to ask him questions. He's a level three sex offender and is on the sex offender registry. He went to jail for assulting girls and just got out this summer. Call me "prejudice" or whatever it may be. But I don't feel comfortable being a 5'1 girl going there.


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## LeahKathleen (Mar 5, 2009)

Personally, I would have done the same thing. Yeah, sometimes there's an explanation - but sometimes there's not, and that's when people get defensive and potentially dangerous.

A registered sex offender? I'm not putting myself in a potentially dangerous situation by confronting the guy. Maybe he'd have a good reason, but that's not worth putting myself in danger.

I'd rather let him explain himself to the authorities than to me. I'd be calling, and saying, "This is what I see - skinny horses with no shelter. I don't know the story, but can you check it out?"

The OP did the right thing. When you see things like that you either call the authorities, or try to handle it yourself, and it's ALWAYS better to let a professional do that sort of stuff.

You just never know what people will do when they are confronted - especially people with dangerous/violent histories.


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## Macslady (Oct 23, 2009)

To the OP: And you think that turning him in isn't going to cause any problems? He isn't going to figure out it was you? So this area is loaded with other people living in your area? 

I would be more worried about the registered sex offender just living down the road, if there are a lot of people you would have been better off starting a petition with others in your area about getting him out of there. That would resolve the horse issue along with him.


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## LeahKathleen (Mar 5, 2009)

How would he find out it was her? The authorities aren't going to tell him, they legally can't. She doesn't even have to tell THEM her name if she doesn't want to.

That's just silly.


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## Luv 2 Trail (Jun 11, 2009)

:-(How very sad for those poor horses and the dog. You absolutely did the right thing - those animals can't speak for themselves and the guy is not doing them any favors locking them away if he can't afford to take proper care of them! It makes me so mad, but unfortunately, abuse happens. At least you care - hopefully the authorities will take control and there will be a good outcome to this story! 
The information you report is not going to become public knowldege. You don't even have to give your name in SC - I know you are in NY, but these agencies work by the same rules - they cannot divulge any personal info whatsoever - it's the law.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

Thanks everybody. I knew some one would understand. Leah & luv, I agree with you girls 100%. When you call in to animal cruelty it's anonymous, or you could give your name and number, in my case, I didn't.

I thought this site would be the last where I would get critisizm for calling in horse neglect.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

I also hate to say this but, sex offenders need a place to live too. I think starting a petition would get my name out there and start more problems than it's worth.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

wild_spot said:


> And this is USUALLY the way the situation goes. It could all be cleared up by just asking a question or two.


Not around here for sure. If you come and ask a question or two about horses looking starved or sick you sure will be kicked off the property. I know several cases it went like that. 

I'm sure the OP can see the difference between horses being indeed starved and sick and horses just hairy and having fun in mud.


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## Macslady (Oct 23, 2009)

LeahKathleen said:


> How would he find out it was her? The authorities aren't going to tell him, they legally can't. She doesn't even have to tell THEM her name if she doesn't want to.
> 
> That's just silly.


Not silly, in our area everyone knows everyone and eventually after asking around people know. Totally different in a big city. Besides there are places on line you can find out criminal info. She did. Why don't you think that someone wouldn't have access. And by the way if I call in around here they not only can tell who you are from your phone number, but also require your name in order to go out. Otherwise if you don't give your name they just blow you off.


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## LeahKathleen (Mar 5, 2009)

Every animal control unit I've EVER called has gone out on any call, regardless of whether the caller gave a name. It's absurd that a unit would ignore a call in because the caller wished to remain anonymous.

Here, someone there would be no way to know who called on you, even if you asked around the neighborhood.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> Personally, I would have done the same thing. Yeah, sometimes there's an explanation - but sometimes there's not, and that's when people get defensive and potentially dangerous.
> 
> A registered sex offender? I'm not putting myself in a potentially dangerous situation by confronting the guy. Maybe he'd have a good reason, but that's not worth putting myself in danger.


Wow was what I said taken out of contest. In NO WAY would I EVER suggest to go confront ANYONE, let alone someone just out of prison, saying your horses are starving and neglected. All I was saying is maybe have a chat, over the fence if need be. Maybe there is a perfectly legitimate reason for it.

If someone calls AC on you - THERE IS A PERMANENT RECORD OF IT. Even if they don't take any action because all is fine - It is on record that you have had AC out to your property which can be a major disadvantage in many different aspects of the horse world. 

Now there are things in your further posts that weren't in your earlier post - Which make the situation sound worse. In your situation maybe I would have, maybe I wouldn't have called. I wouldn't know until I saw the horses. But I do know that I would never take the extreme action of reporting someone for animal cruelty/abuse 1. Without having a CHAT - Not interogating or confronting, that is just counter-productive, and 2. Without facts - Not "I don't THINK the vet has been out" "I don't THINK the fence is secure" etc. But hey, that's just me.


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## LeahKathleen (Mar 5, 2009)

Wild_spot, my post was not in direct response to yours. There were posts suggesting that it if you don't talk to the owners first, you're a bad person for calling, and I disagree. You have an obligation to the horses that you feel need help.

I just think that it's better not to express that kind of concern with strangers. Around here, people can be very defensive about their animals, ESPECIALLY when they *know *they are at fault. Even if the guy wasn't a sex offender, I would look at the circumstances (i.e. property condition, etc) and decided whether or not it would be safe for me to approach that person.


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## Macslady (Oct 23, 2009)

LeahKathleen said:


> Every animal control unit I've EVER called has gone out on any call, regardless of whether the caller gave a name. It's absurd that a unit would ignore a call in because the caller wished to remain anonymous.
> 
> Here, someone there would be no way to know who called on you, even if you asked around the neighborhood.


And that is the way it should be, but every state and service is different. I am in Illinois and they have always requested a name and location of the person calling in. I know, I have a friend who works at the local shelter. They get too many complaints that are caused by neighborly disagreements that turn bad and someone calls in because they are PO'd at their neighbor. With cost cuts everywhere animal control doesn't have a ton of people to chase down these complaints and if you don't give the required information they don't go.

And your name can be revealed. Part of the law is the right for the defendant to know their accuser if this would go to court.


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## sillybunny11486 (Oct 2, 2009)

It peeves me a little bit that someone would be very agitated that AC comes out to their house. They are just doing their job, get over it. If they have to spend a few mintues of my time, thats fine. Id rather them investigate every lead instead of none at all. What if they chose not to come out when something was actually wrong and a horse was suffering??

It takes alot of guts to call AC, and I think most of the time people dont call because they get flack/ or afraid of getting flack from people. I dont know anyone who has regreted calling AC and know alot of people who do regret not calling them. You are not an expert(most people on this forum arent), they are. If you see something, you shouldnt feel guilty about calling, you could be saving an animal. The AC agents aren't everywere, so they NEED tips from people like you to make sure they are doing all they can. I'm glad you too some initiative! Let us know if you see things improving over there.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

I haven't been on this forum in a long time, and now I remember why.
Never in a million years did I think I would come to the horse forum, where people have horses in their best interest, and get called out for reporting animal cruelty. I can't imagine why people are this immature to be arguing about this. 


UPDATE: Today we had a winter storm warning for freezing rain and snow. I drove by the house and guess what! The horses have no shelter, and are standing in the freezing rain. :wink:


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## SmoothTrails (Oct 1, 2009)

Well I think the OP did the right thing. There are some cases where the person may not be comfortable or safe saying anything about the horses. I wish I could say there were authorities in my area that would take care of cruelty quickly. A few years ago it took 2 horses dying, 1 loosing an eye, and a threat to get a news crew out to get authorities to seize 8 horses being kept on enough pasture, but left with no water source, and only given 1 small bale of hay a week. One mare had a foal at her side. The pasture was overgrown with polk salad (poisonous plant) and kudzu. There was no grass to substitute for the shortage of hay. 

What made me even more angry was that one of the more welll-known "horsemen" of the area drove past there every day and never said a thing. I would rather have someone report me on a horse that I was trying to fatten up and get a response than it take that much to get someone to save starving and dying horses. There is a permanent record, but if there is a legitimate reason it is recorded as well.


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## HalfPass (Jun 12, 2009)

Equestriun,
I have to say I would have done the same thing. I think it was interesting how you found out the info on this person. Just me, but I would not have tried to contact this person. Sometimes you just never know. We have something what I like to call the "gut ping" it is a good barometer for things just like this. I suspect that you have driven by this place often enough to know that things already looked a little shady....I think you did the right thing.
Good for you. Animals dont have a voice to tell us when something is wrong. With the facts you presented about their weight and the weather situation well to me their condition could rapidly deterioate (sp).
Lets hope the AC will investigate soon and check things out. 
Keep us posted.
HP


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> I haven't been on this forum in a long time, and now I remember why.
> Never in a million years did I think I would come to the horse forum, where people have horses in their best interest, and get called out for reporting animal cruelty. I can't imagine why people are this immature to be arguing about this.


*sigh* Have you seriously not read anything i've written? I'm not saying you did the wrong thing - I'm not saying you are bad or mean or whatever - I'm simply presenting a different point of view. If that offends you so much then maybe you should leave - Most people on this forum have opinions that differ, yet they still express them.

I KNOW how heartbreaking it is seeing horses being neglected/starved/not getting vet care. I have watched my dad's boss neglect numerous horses for about 9 years, and watched one of his horses waste away and die because he was too lazy/stingy to feed, worm, or get a vet out. Do you have any idea how heartbreaking it is to watch that and NOT be able to report it because my dad would lose his job? It really isn't a nice thing to imply that I don't care about any animal cruelty - Just because I presented a different view on the situation.


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## Becca93 (Jan 22, 2009)

Wild Spot - I think it was the way you worded it. It is the interweb and it is all about interretation. Which sucks sometimes when people don't take it the way you intended it.

A few of the posts (and mind you she didn't direct the comment you quoted directly at you) have portrayed the opinion/view that the OP's choice was not the best one. It's not like she loaded them up and took them to the Rescue center or whatever. She was reporting horses that in her opinion (and yours, and mine and my next door neighbour too possibly if we'd seen them) that after watched the situation for an amount of time that she had reported them to AC. /



I'm aware that AC is a permanent record, but I'm sure if someone/business/whatever was concerned with this record they could contact the owner/AC for more information. If there is nothing in the complaint there is nothing in the complaint. People are questioned all the time by the police and that is recorded too. 

What is the worse thing that could come out of this? The guy is innocent of neglect, AC apologises for the misunderstanding, OP knows that atleast the horses arent neglected and the guy gets to keep his horses? and there is a record of the complaint. 

There is no way in mother earth that as a 16year old 5'2" would I be talking to a sex offender.Whether it be a friendly chat (as Wildspot suggested) or to question his horses welfare. Where he lives is none of my business because we can't group up all the sex offenders and put them on a secluded island away from everyone. Everyone has a human right to property. 

OP - I think you did the right thing. Don't let people make you feel bad about your decision. I would have done the same thing in your circumstances.


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

If the owner has legitimate reasons for his horses looking that way, it shouldn't be a big deal. BUT, what if they are being neglected? Should we just turn our backs and give the owner the benefit of the doubt? I think not.

What kind of _responsible_ horse owner would keep 3 horses on a small, scrap filled lot?


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Honestly, OP, you did the right thing. AC will investigate and determine if there is action needed or not. However, be prepared to see that their interpretation of the situation from a legal standpoint and your's from an emotional one may be two very different things. As long as he is providing the absolute minimum required by local law (it varies a lot from one locale to the next ), there will not be any action taken. However, if there is determined to be reason for concern, AC will proceed according to their steps -whether issuing warnings, giving a set time for change or outright seizure if felt warranted. The fact of the matter is, though, that that determination is to be made by AC and you have put that process in motion by making the call.


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## ridesapaintedpony (Apr 14, 2009)

I think the OP did the right thing. As long as she didn't call the AC out of spite, then it's her duty as an animal lover to be concerned. This isn't the same as the AR people calling the AC because they don't want us owning animals to begin with. The OP made a judgment call based on what she saw. None of us were there. None of us saw what she saw.

It is not safe for a lone woman to confront a man in this day and age, whether he's a sex offender or not. He might have a gun, he might have anger issues and you might end up dead. Let the authorities handle it. That's what they are there for.


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

I think OP did the right thing, but it's absolutely crucial that you look over the situation _thouroughly._ 

Cody lives in the backyard in a mud pitt (that is big enough to run in, mind you), but it's only muddy when it _rains_. He is shaggy (gee, in the winter I HOPE so!) and a bit dirty, but gets fed regularly and gets an afternoon snack like everyone else in the barn. He is on the thin side, but I'm working on that. 

However, I'm not abuseing him.

So you just really need to be careful  Especially dealing with a sex offender. I think OP, personally, did a good thing. Obviously the horses have been in that condition for a while.


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## ScharmLily (Nov 23, 2009)

Maverick101 said:


> I have to agree with Wildspot here.
> I had this happen to me first hand.....
> 
> Had an older rescue, that was skin and bones. She was on stall rest for about a month due to different ailments...but once she was well enough she was in a smaller corral which was located along side our driveway...(which happened to be visible from the road). She had already gained around 100lbs at this point, but still had LOADS of weight to go. We honestly thought she was going to die, the first month we had her.
> ...


Honestly, I think that if this happened to me I would be mildly annoyed at first, then I would have been glad that someone had cared enough to call in what they thought was a case of neglect. This is how animals get rescued in the first place. Also, I can not blame the op for not wanting to talk to the guy who just got out of jail and is a sex offender......even being a black belt in martial arts and working out hard daily has taught me that the guy with the gun still has a huge advantage and you just don't want to mess with those people if you don't have to.

I am very glad that you called this in. I would have done the same thing.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

THe OP did the right thing by FAR

you guys arent looking at the big details. 

You can see the hipbones and ribs through a WINTER coat?! Thats not right.. let alone a foal was mentioned..... if the horses are this under nurished the foal wont get much either, not sure if its weaned or not....Also all the scraps on the ground.. wire fencing... Yea I wouldnt want ANY horses on that let alone a FOAL. 

Calling the AC was the right thing. I know its what I would have done. If this man can afford to BUY the 3 horses... im sure he has some money to be able to at least get some blankets and a bale of hay here and there. I never would go up to this guy and ask questions knowing it was a sex offender.. theres 17 a block or so away from my SCHOOL and one lives right across the street..I go out the back! LOL


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

OMG. NO ONE is understanding what i'm saying. I feel like bashing my head against a brick wall.

My issue is the way the ORIGINAL POST was worded. It was full of maybe/I think/I doubt. There was no actual evidence of abuse OR neglect. It REALLY made me think that prejudice about the man (sex offender, whatever) was clouding judgement. 

I SAID that the further, clarifying posts changed the situation a bit. Again, I'm NOT, and NEVER said she was right OR wrong. Sheesh.

Plus - You can't judge everyone by your standards. Plenty of horses live in wire fences - Plenty live in paddocks with scraps - So on and so forth. Just because ti isn't how YOU do it, doesn't mean it is abuse or neglect. The paddock my horses are in has wire fences, and an old cattle grid on the ground. And they are in no way abused or neglected.

So for the last time - I did NOT say wether what the OP did was right OR wrong. I simply presented a different opinion on the subject and everybody started shooting me down. I would be absolutely livid if someone called AC on me without hvaing the common courtesy to talk to me first.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

While I think the OP potentially did the right thing, especially given the dude's criminal record, but I have to ask this...

How long have the horses been there? Is there the possibility that he purchased those horses in rough condition? Perhaps they are really old, and beyond the point of being able to hold decent weight? What then? We always assume the worst in situations that 'appear' to be bad. 

I've had the same thing happen to me, upon purchasing a horse who was in none to perfect condition; instead of coming to me and asking if something was wrong, and if I was able to care for the animal, AC just shows up...true, when things are explained, vet records pulled, etc, they leave, but what happened to your neighbors simply coming over and asking if they can help (if I need it)???


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## Erin_And_Jasper (Jul 5, 2008)

"How would he find out it was her? The authorities aren't going to tell him, they legally can't. She doesn't even have to tell THEM her name if she doesn't want to."


last time AC got called on me they gave me the ladys name who called and complained. nothing happened. they didnt take my horses away and they said they looked between 5 and 10 y/o. im just saying consider the facts before you go accusing people. maybe he was asking some one to take care of them for a few week while he was on vacation. i have reasons my horses are thin. they are old and one was abused/neglected. and these are my first horses so im learning. maybe he is new to horses and is learning.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

I don't feel bad for calling. I've been around horses my whole life and have worked at many barns and with many trainers. A horse should not be living in the conditions these horses are in. I can understand if one horse is old and skinny but not all three, one being a foal. It's not fair to the horses. If anyone here thinks it is then they aren't true horse lovers.

As far as the calling it in and him finding out, here in NY, they don't tell the person who called. Not to mention I called them anonymously. What a petty thing to argue about. 

Nor, will I put myself in the position to go and ask the guy. If anyone here would like to go and confront the guy, the adress is on the sex offender website, go ahead and ask yourself. 

Wild_spot, there is no nice way to put this but you are very immature. Using caps just makes it look worse.
"Plus - You can't judge everyone by your standards. Plenty of horses live in wire fences - Plenty live in paddocks with scraps - So on and so forth. Just because ti isn't how YOU do it, doesn't mean it is abuse or neglect."
Anyone who has this low of "standards" shouldn't own a horse. Do you think it's okay that horse lives in a fence that they could easily get out of because it's wrapped around a tree, and run out onto a major road, get hit by a car and possibly kill the horse and the driver? Do you think it's okay for a horse to live in scrap that they could cut themselves on, which can lead to alot of other problems like infection?. 

No offence Erin_and_jasper, but being new to horses is not a good reason to why they are skinny. 

For everyone who understood where I was coming from thank-you so much. Everyone who had my back, I now treat you like an online family =)


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> I've had the same thing happen to me, upon purchasing a horse who was in none to perfect condition; instead of coming to me and asking if something was wrong, and if I was able to care for the animal, AC just shows up...true, when things are explained, vet records pulled, etc, they leave, *but what happened to your neighbors simply coming over and asking if they can help (if I need it)???*


Exactly.

Equestriun - That is incredibly rude. I have been using caps because no one seems to be reading my posts properly. They think i'm telling you to go and confront a sex offender in his home - I have never said anything of the sort. That would be rude, and dangerous. 




> Anyone who has this low of "standards" shouldn't own a horse. Do you think it's okay that horse lives in a fence that they could easily get out of because it's wrapped around a tree, and run out onto a major road, get hit by a car and possibly kill the horse and the driver? Do you think it's okay for a horse to live in scrap that they could cut themselves on, which can lead to alot of other problems like infection?.


Of course not - I 100% agree that it is not an ideal situation. However, the law doesn't care about ideal situations. It cares about basic needs being met. Just because your horse doesn't live in post and rail fencing, in idyllic grassy pastures complete with a pond and palm trees doesn't mean it is being abused or neglected.

I have never comented on the specifics of this situation and wether I think you were wrong to have called. Is that so hard to understand? I'm speaking in general terms. General situations. 



> For everyone who understood where I was coming from thank-you so much. Everyone who had my back, I now treat you like an online family =)


Congratulations, you have joined the ranks of those who attack others who don't agree with their opinion and clap those who do agree on the back. They must have gotten pretty bored 'having your back' seeing as no one was attacking it :]


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## ScharmLily (Nov 23, 2009)

I totally agree Equsetriun. Honestly, it's the internet, you can't possibly know whether someone is telling the truth or not, so just take it at face value. If you say that the horses are neglected, then besides if there were any obvious gaps in the story, I believe you. It's not like it will affect me if you were lying anyway, so why bother to squabble about the conditions. Besides, it makes me much happier to have people being a bit overreactive than doing nothing and letting the suffering continue (this comment is not directed at anyone, I'm just stating what I believe).

As far as the sex offender goes, I'd look into his record. If he's some sort of habitual rapist, then I'd petition against him in a heartbeat. 
Someone that can commit such a terrible act deserves to be punished, and if that includes being run out of every town they ever set foot in, then so be it. This may sound overly harsh to some, but just think about if it were you or your loved ones that was the victim.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

I refuse to argue with you, Wild_spot. It's just childish.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Thats funny, because I wasn't actually argueing with you. Just putting an opinion out there. I guess you must just like to argue.

Good bye.


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## southerncowgirl93 (Feb 5, 2009)

Equestriun said:


> Anyone who has this low of "standards" shouldn't own a horse. Do you think it's okay that horse lives in a fence that they could easily get out of because it's wrapped around a tree, and run out onto a major road, get hit by a car and possibly kill the horse and the driver? Do you think it's okay for a horse to live in scrap that they could cut themselves on, which can lead to alot of other problems like infection?.


I think you did the right thing by calling. But some horses will tear down a fence, even a good one, if they really want too. Peaches, one of my friends Apps that I have right now, this summer she decided she wanted to get into our garden, which was about 200 yards from her pasture fence. She pulled down a brand new section of fence to get to it. 4 strands of tight, brand new wire to eat our vegetables. We put that fence up just for her and Belle and she tore it out! lol She had some cuts on her chest and shoulders, but its fine now. What I'm saying is, horses can get out if they really want to.


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## skittle1120 (Oct 24, 2009)

Without seeing the horses, I can't say whether I would have called or not, but in a situation were there is prosecutable neglect, when it goes to court, the guys attorney will file discovery papers and will find out who reported the neglect... 

If you're not comfortable being called into court, then don't make the call to AC, part of our legal system includes the right to know your accuser....


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## sillybunny11486 (Oct 2, 2009)

side note- I think it might be illegal in some states in the US to use barbed wire for horse fencing.

I dont think anyone on here is a lawyer... Its no one's job but the AC to determine if the conditions of these horses are adequate. So the best think you can do is call them to let them be the judge. The OP might have seen how they are kept all the time, or she might not have seen everything the guy was doing for the horses. But she did the best thing she could by calling AC. 

I would never advicate someone going to confront someone else they didnt know, let alone expect this person to take advice from you. You don't know what people are going to do. Heck you could just get shot for going on someone's property.


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## BarneyBabby (Nov 18, 2008)

Your smart for calling someone to take a look at it and not going yourself. But knowing my stupid self, I would have marched my shortself (5'4) over there and said something, or screamed either one.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

Im glad the OP got someone to come out and check on these horses! Unlike everyone on this forum she has seen these horses with her own eyes. Were only going by her words, and to me it sounds like a guy who need to be set straight with horse ownership. Sure he could have SOME excuse, but if they really as skinny as the OP said... he needs to turn them over to someone else. 

My mare came from an abusive situation along with extreme neglect but the horses there at least had ample room to run. It was said that these horses were extremely skinny, bad fencing, not even room enough for one horse.. let alone three......

Honestly we should just stop this debate? of if it was right or wrong to call because we haven't seen these horses or their surroundings...

Lol if I was the OP if I really was determined to prove my point i'd take a picture driving by or something lol! But thats just me.


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## Attitude05 (Nov 11, 2009)

*having a horse is what m akes me poor, she is fat though.*


*Good on ya for ringing!*


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

There was no debate about wether it was right or wrong - I never said it was either :]


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## Attitude05 (Nov 11, 2009)

yeah, honestly. i only read the thread starter. so yeah


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

I would take a picture, but it would look wierd if I just pulled over on the side of the road and took out my camera. I think the guy would know what I was up too.


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## Lis (Oct 29, 2009)

It's a shame you couldn't have taken pictures. It would be documentation which you could see whether the horses have detoriated and you could provide the AC with it if they were a bit slow to show what the horses are living in.


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## Snowkicker (Dec 23, 2009)

My horse Brian was in a small pen with a very scarey fence with three other horses. The lady that had him was a nut job. She fed all four horses half a bale a day. There was a pony tied to a lunge line in the pen with the horses (IT kept getting out. I wonder why.) All the horses had rope burns from getting tangled on the pony's line. If a neighbor had not called and reported this case, the lady would have eventually killed my little Brian. He was about 400# underweight and full of worms when He came to my farm. A friend of mine has the pony from this case. I think it is wise to avoid talking to the neighbor. If nothing is wrong the Authorities will find out. If something is wrong the owner won't see it as wrong anyways. Brian's previous owner said that she was taking good care of her horses and had no idea why the neighbors kept calling the authorities and why she was loosing the horses. 
Here is a link to our website it has before and after pictures of Brian. (he is the second horse.

Our Horses

I just wanted to say thanks from Brian and I for looking out for those horses!


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Equestriun said:


> I would take a picture, but it would look wierd if I just pulled over on the side of the road and took out my camera. I think the guy would know what I was up too.


Does AC come out without the docs? I do remember someone told me that in our county you have to provide AC with lots of pics before they actually go and check.


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

you absolutely, positively did the right thing. No matter if the horses were rescues, babies, or whatnot, it's good that you called. The best that could happen would be if the AC went out and found that there is some reason that the horses are like that, however from your description, I would probably guess that they are just not being taken care of.

I have a guy that lives down the road from me that has horses much like this. He bought 3 foals (who are now yearlings) who were living in a roundpen. He opened up the roundpen but there is still not enough room for them. They are skinny, dirty, and overall in pretty poor health.

You may have just given me the courage to do the same for the horses in my area.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

Yeah, I know I did the right thing. Thanks for all the support everyone. I will keep you all updated. Today I drove by and I didn't see the horses. I know the guy must still have them because the AC wouldn't have gotten to them that fast.


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## ScharmLily (Nov 23, 2009)

Snowkicker said:


> My horse Brian was in a small pen with a very scarey fence with three other horses. The lady that had him was a nut job. She fed all four horses half a bale a day. There was a pony tied to a lunge line in the pen with the horses (IT kept getting out. I wonder why.) All the horses had rope burns from getting tangled on the pony's line. If a neighbor had not called and reported this case, the lady would have eventually killed my little Brian. He was about 400# underweight and full of worms when He came to my farm. A friend of mine has the pony from this case. I think it is wise to avoid talking to the neighbor. If nothing is wrong the Authorities will find out. If something is wrong the owner won't see it as wrong anyways. Brian's previous owner said that she was taking good care of her horses and had no idea why the neighbors kept calling the authorities and why she was loosing the horses.
> Here is a link to our website it has before and after pictures of Brian. (he is the second horse.
> 
> Our Horses
> ...


I just looked at your pics. Poor Brian  He looked so terrible when you first got him. He is looking awesome now though, and I just wanted to commend you on doing such a great job  My biggest dream is to set up a rescue and rehab/retraining facility for horses and some other animals.


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## Snowkicker (Dec 23, 2009)

Thanks Scarmlily Those pics are from last year. Brian looks even better now a year later. He has more muscles all over, probably from carrying my fat butt around. lol He has turned out to be a great horse for kids and beginners. I have started using him as a lesson horse. Rescuing is very rewarding but also very hard and scary.

Equestriun Animal Control could have scared him into getting rid of them. He may have not wanted to risk the fines that would be imposed if he didn't make changes.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

Yeah they could of, when I did my job shadow at the CNY horse rescue it took them around two weeks just to review the case.


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## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

Snowkicker said:


> My horse Brian was in a small pen with a very scarey fence with three other horses. The lady that had him was a nut job. She fed all four horses half a bale a day. There was a pony tied to a lunge line in the pen with the horses (IT kept getting out. I wonder why.) All the horses had rope burns from getting tangled on the pony's line. If a neighbor had not called and reported this case, the lady would have eventually killed my little Brian. He was about 400# underweight and full of worms when He came to my farm. A friend of mine has the pony from this case. I think it is wise to avoid talking to the neighbor. If nothing is wrong the Authorities will find out. If something is wrong the owner won't see it as wrong anyways. Brian's previous owner said that she was taking good care of her horses and had no idea why the neighbors kept calling the authorities and why she was loosing the horses.
> Here is a link to our website it has before and after pictures of Brian. (he is the second horse.
> 
> Our Horses
> ...



Good on you! Brian looks amazing even after a short time of being with you, his hooves were terrible. Glad to see he has a great home now.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

I have an update that not even I believe. Today I drove by, the roads were horrible so instead of the reg 55mph I could only go 15mph, so lets just say I got a really good look at the horses. 

The guy has a new friggen horse, the same three were still there, the new horse looks like some type of draft, and looked alot healthier then the other three horses. That was how the other three horses started out though, and look at them now. 

And for his "shelter" he has a blue tarp tied up in the trees. And a piece of plywood.


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## Ariat164 (Nov 27, 2009)

Maverick101 said:


> I have to agree with Wildspot here.
> I had this happen to me first hand.....
> 
> Had an older rescue, that was skin and bones. She was on stall rest for about a month due to different ailments...but once she was well enough she was in a smaller corral which was located along side our driveway...(which happened to be visible from the road). She had already gained around 100lbs at this point, but still had LOADS of weight to go. We honestly thought she was going to die, the first month we had her.
> ...


 i have to agree with both of you, she should have talked to the guy first and gave him a chance before jumping to conclusions. My neighbors almost called the SPCA on us because we were "blindfolding" our horses. she complained to my other neighbor and she explained that they were just flymasks and it was the humane thing to do to make our horses wear them lol, but i would be afraid if the SPCA came to my property because technicly we dont have nearly enough land for the amount of horses we have, but our horses are all fat, healthy and up to date on thier shots, and i dont see how not having enough land is any different than what those show barns do, because those horses are left in all day, at least my horses get to go outside and be horses lol


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

Yeah who wouldn't walk up to this* sex offenders* house and *ask him* why his horses are skinny....?

Yall have more b**** than me ....


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

Crazy O_O


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

I don't know... D; I feel horrible. I hate to see animals suffer.


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## Ariat164 (Nov 27, 2009)

lacyloo said:


> Yeah who wouldn't walk up to this* sex offenders* house and *ask him* why his horses are skinny....?
> 
> Yall have more b**** than me ....


 ok you do have a point there lol..........i forgot about the sex offender part lol


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## Erin_And_Jasper (Jul 5, 2008)

No offence Erin_and_jasper, but being new to horses is not a good reason to why they are skinny. 

well offence has been taken!!!!!!! im new havent been around horses very long and its hard to notice with horses that you see every day. my rents said they looked ok. i knew they looked bad but my rents pay for the horses so i cant buy them feed. i get by on 40 bucks a week from my job!!! my mom pays for the horses in return i help her do her jobs. so dont tell me just because im new isnt a good reason. it is a good reason. maybe this guy lost his job. maybe they were his wifes horses and she died. _*put*_ _*yourself in his situation*_. i wish the people would have talked to me first then called on me if i didnt straighten up.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

It should be easier to notice if you see them everyday. I don't know what "rents" are. If they can't afford it and you can't, then why do you have them?. It's irresponsible and not fair to the animals. 

So because a person had a child and was new to parenting then it's okay for their baby to be sick and male nourished? 

Is it fair to not feed the animals because you can't afford it, when they're better off at a shelter?


Ignorance is not an excuse.


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## Snowkicker (Dec 23, 2009)

I think rents are parents. It may sound harsh but If you can't afford to feed a horse you should not have them. Horses need food. They suffer greatly with out it. Their bodies consume themselves and eventually stop working. They need to be wormed regularly or it won't matter how much you feed them. They have to have water or they will colic painfully and die. It takes money to provide for them. Life is not a magical place where bales of hay fall from the sky. You got to be practical and you got to work and make money so you can enjoy having horses. They are not a privilege or a right, they are living feeling creatures. I am my own trainer, poop shoveler, groomer, Hay stacker, feeder, water tank filler for my horses, that makes it cheaper. I spend a good deal of my day looking out for them. If I didn't have them I could take European vacations, and buy nice clothes. I often eat spaghetti, frozen pizza, and ramen noodles, and I don't care because when I go to sleep I can sleep like a rock knowing my horses are content chewing on their nightly hay. If I could not afford to feed them. I would not have them. I could not bare to watch them waste away on my farm.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

I do agree that horses definitely need more food in the winter; I'd rather my babies be a bit chubby, than too scrawny in the winter months. 

To the OP, any news from the AC yet, on the situation? I think normally, you can find out if you request the information, especially if you express interest in potentially fostering the horses.


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## JoJo1950 (Dec 14, 2009)

Ok, I am on your 100% on your side. Big deal, the ASAP comes out and they see everything is ok. This is their job. This is your tax dollars at work. Who going to speak for the horses or any animal, who is their advocate? Horses or any animal have no voice except the one that comes from our hearts. Personally, I proud of you. Don't lose your sense of morality and stewardship to a horse or any animal. If not you, then who. Maybe if more people had your mozy (Midwest lingo for bravery), there would be less cruelty. 

I am CASA that has worked with sexually abused children. I have had to interview sexual predators. Absolutely, stay away from the guy!


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

> I am my own trainer, poop shoveler, groomer, Hay stacker, feeder, water tank filler for my horses, that makes it cheaper.


Haha Amen!


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

Mom, nothing yet, I'm going to wait a little while because they could be backed up or something then i'll call again or I will walk in to talk, you would be surprised how talking to them in person makes a difference. Did you read my post about the new horse? Either the guy got a new horse or he has been hiding it really good. And the shelther from the show for them is a blue tarp tied in the tree..


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

Jojo, Thank-you. I agree with you completely.


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

We had a guy in our area neglecting a horse. He kept him in the same situation those horses are in, minus the snow. The horse was being fed whole corn...
No hay or grass, AC never got involved (I doubt they even went to his house) and my friend ended up paying 100$ for the gelding.Poor thing was infested with worms ,skinny, in desperate need for a trim and his teeth had to be floated.

Once they got him back in shape and healthy,he was donated to a local riding club (they raffle out tickets to the members) and he got a home. 
Happy ending for "Lo -die" (not sure how you spell it but its pronounced ( Low-die)

AC around here _rarely_ gets involved unless alot of complaints start coming in. I know, pathetic right?


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## Erin_And_Jasper (Jul 5, 2008)

whatever. rents mean parents. its hard to notice because you get used to it. its not ignorence its being new. a mew mom sometime doesnt understand how bratty her kids are till some one points it out. same here. i need it to be pointed out. so get off my case. i was just saying in my situation it would have been nice if the people would have talked to me first.


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## SmoothTrails (Oct 1, 2009)

Erin what you are describing is ignorance. You said you did not know. That means ignorance. 

Ask any law officer and ignorance of a law does not keep you from being prosecuted if you commit a crime. If you are going to own a horse it is your responsibility to educate yourself. If people do not know that it is wrong to beat their child it does not excuse them from beating their child, same with starving an animal. 

As was said in previous posts...Ignorance is not an excuse. 

*please keep in mind you means any person, not particularly you. 


Keep us updated on if anything happens with the horses. You may need to continue to pester them about the case. I know in my area we actually had no one to call other than the police. It came to a point where we had to threaten them with news crews, and this was with 2 horses dead in the pasture.


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## Erin_And_Jasper (Jul 5, 2008)

ok and im saying this as nice as i can. lets get back on topic. get off me


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## I love Arabs (Nov 19, 2009)

To the OP-
I think it was smart of you to call. You could have just saved 3 (now 4?) horse's lives! Please explain to me why that wouldnt be good!?! Honsetly if I was the horses owner I would be grateful knowing that someone actually cared about my horses and was looking out for me (if it wasnt done on purpose) Haha im really tired so if none of that made sense then im sorry but I TOTALLY think you made the right choice.

BTW dont go over there!!!


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

Lacyloo, that is really sad.

Smoothtrails, Thanks for the support. I agree.

Erin, I don't know what to say...

Anyway, I called again, and the person told me he couldn't do anything about it because it was out of his county. And that Oswego county, doesn't have an animal cruelty investigator, so I had to call the local cops. I did and left a message. I let everyone know as soon as i know any updates.


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## skittle1120 (Oct 24, 2009)

Wow, I'm kinda surprised that Oswego county doesn't have an investigator... Last time I was up that way it looked like there was a pretty decent population in there...


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

I'm also surprised. Oswego, the city, has a big population. But if you don't live inside the city then there isn't that many people. I'm waiting for them to call me back.


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## lillie (Oct 26, 2009)

i hope you keep trying, and phoning for these horses sake. and please dont ever strike up a conversation with this guy!!! ( not even over a fence!) how anyone could think it was sensible to talk to a sex offender/ peado,just out of jail ( i think you said) is beyond me.. it is best to never engage in conversation in this sort of situation anyway- let the "experts" handle it; but to put yourself in close proximity with a person with a dubious background is foolhardy and could be unsafe to you and yours.


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## SmoothTrails (Oct 1, 2009)

If the police won't listen you should tell them you will talk to a newspaper or local news station, adn back it up. If they don't take action to look into it tell them you will have a news crew out to show just how little they care about teh welfare of the animals. That was how we finally got the cops out. This was after taking them pictures of the horses adn the two dead horses and them still doing nothing. The day we told them we would be calling in a news crew they finally came out to take the horses. Be persistent. Defintely do NOT try to talk to the owner if he is a sex offender. I would not even if he were not. We contacted the neglectful owner's landlord to get info in our case.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

Could someone please delete the post where I put up the sex offender website. Just incase he uses the computer. Thank-you.


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

first off let me say i think you did the right thing. 

it doesnt matter if you "think" they had vet care or not... get this one... i drove by a farm that was pretty run down. the horses were out in the field. they were SO SKINNY and it was the summer, i could see them swishing their tails. their tails looked like STICKS on their butts. they were matted to the bone with burrs. and the best part... this guy IS a equine vet!!!! and he has tons of money! so just because they "may" be getting vet attention doesnt mean they are being kept in healthy conditions..... :-|

secondly i wouldnt have talked to him either. youre not putting yourself in a safe position knowing his history. i wouldnt go on anyones property and ask them about their animals anyway. i would call if the situation looked bad to me. its better to let experts with authority handle the situation the trespass on someones property to (what most people would take it as) "insult" them. 

ive had animal control called on me 2 times for my horses. both times animal control laughed about it when they looked at my horses. the first time my mare was 9 months pregnant and HUGE. someone had called saying that she had no shelter, food, or water. she had shelter, a huge water trough, and we showed him all the feed and hay we had. the second time it was that the horses were skinny and dirty. it had been raining like mad the last month and the paddocks were muddy (duh), and the horses were not skinny. the guy was playing with them and said he wanted to come back and see my mares foal after she gave birth because shes so beautiful. 

i would rather have animal control come out and see how great im taking care of my animals, than have someone not care at all if they thought they werent being taken care of....

and there was a post made before about someone watching someone neglect their horses to the point of death, and nothing was done about it. there are many ways to go about things so that people dont know its you... and personally thats disgusting. if youre not part of the SOLUTION your part of the PROBLEM!!


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> and there was a post made before about someone watching someone neglect their horses to the point of death, and nothing was done about it. there are many ways to go about things so that people dont know its you... and personally thats disgusting. if youre not part of the SOLUTION your part of the PROBLEM!!


Awesome, I love being insulted.

Go on then, tell me how I could have done anything - I actually made a thread here about that horse long before he died, asking for ideas. NOT ONE WAS GIVEN. My dad is in his employ. My dad and I were the ONLY ones to see his horses. How could I have possibly informed anyone, and he not known it was either me or my dad? I'd love to know, because I would do it right now. It was a heartbreaking and terrible time in my life watching that horse suffer. When I found him down the day he died you have NO IDEA what went through my mind as I called my dad to come and shoot him so he would at least be out of his misery.

So you tell me what I could have done.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

^ And wanted to add - I was as much a part of the solution as I could be. I payed for wormers out of my own money (I was about 13 at the time) and wormed al the horses we could catch. I convinced the guy to let me pay a farrier to come do their feet, with my own money of a maccas wage - Again we could only do the ones we could catch. We have put ourselves in danger catching those horses to treat them for lice and to treat them if they injured themselves. 

But seeing as i'm disgusting and part of the problem, maybe I should have just let them suffer.


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## katieandduke (Apr 13, 2008)

I think you did the right thing. I would have done the same thing.. Yes, some may say it is none of your business but when an animal's life is in danger then I WILL make it my business! lol. Good job calling the SPCA!!


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## Crimsonhorse01 (Sep 8, 2009)

I can see where Wild Spot is coming from.
In regards to facts your first post didn't say much. Before I would ever complain to AC I would investigate the laws in my area. I wouldn't want to waste the AC time, especially if they are already busy, or the owners.
Is there any wounds on the horses to suggest they need a vet? if not I don't see any ground for the vet comment. Did they have feed? Ive seen allot of cases where they don't have horse quaility hay but they did have it. AC cant do anything if they have the minimum requirements for the law. 
Hopefully the AC does have grounds to do something. If not I really hate that thier time and resources were wasted.
Kudos to those that report abuse, but hopefully its an informed decision.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

wild_spot said:


> Awesome, I love being insulted.
> 
> Go on then, tell me how I could have done anything - I actually made a thread here about that horse long before he died, asking for ideas. NOT ONE WAS GIVEN. My dad is in his employ. My dad and I were the ONLY ones to see his horses. How could I have possibly informed anyone, and he not known it was either me or my dad? I'd love to know, because I would do it right now. It was a heartbreaking and terrible time in my life watching that horse suffer. When I found him down the day he died you have NO IDEA what went through my mind as I called my dad to come and shoot him so he would at least be out of his misery.
> 
> So you tell me what I could have done.


You could have called the vet, not make a thread for online opinions.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

Crimsonhorse01 said:


> I can see where Wild Spot is coming from.
> In regards to facts your first post didn't say much. Before I would ever complain to AC I would investigate the laws in my area. I wouldn't want to waste the AC time, especially if they are already busy, or the owners.
> Is there any wounds on the horses to suggest they need a vet? if not I don't see any ground for the vet comment. Did they have feed? Ive seen allot of cases where they don't have horse quaility hay but they did have it. AC cant do anything if they have the minimum requirements for the law.
> Hopefully the AC does have grounds to do something. If not I really hate that thier time and resources were wasted.
> Kudos to those that report abuse, but hopefully its an informed decision.


Please read the back posts. I'm not retyping nor explaining myself anymore. I know I did the right thing. 


Thanks Katie, AlmagroN, smoothtrails and lillie.


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## aranyc123 (Nov 22, 2009)

i think you did the right thing by calling and not going over. as a woman i would never put myself in a situation that may turn out bad for me...ie, going over to confront the guy..........keep us updated.............


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## 1dog3cats17rodents (Dec 7, 2007)

Equestriun said:


> You could have called the vet, not make a thread for online opinions.


What exactly would that do? She couldn't legally treat his animals, plus that's alot of money to notbe able to do anything...


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

^ I think she meant the vet could look the horses over, even from the side of the road and call AC if the horses looked emaciated. Its alot more effective when a vet calls AC.

But it sounds like the horses couldn't be seen by a road. So I'm not saying thats what she "should" have done.


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

i just dont understand how a whole heard of horses (because obviously there were more than just a few) could never be seen by anyone? and this guy only let you and your dad see them? he had no other friends that ever came over or anything? you couldnt have told someone who doesnt know him to call??? and if there was a farrier that came out... um hello... why couldnt he call?? none of that whole story really adds up.


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## MyboyMacT (Jan 5, 2010)

Can I just say that before, i would be agreeing to call spca or whatever but now i say, know all the facts! This guy does sound like a bit of a creep and with his background dont approach him! 

I had been looking after two horses for the past month and they were pretty chunky and fat when i got them. They are out 24/7 and in fields beside our local stables, who always feed their horses at the gates. 

I was taken a back more than anything when we had been reported to the sspca for not feeding our horses hay, hard feed and that their grass had been frozen. I admit that yes half of the field had indeed been frozen, but we never fed them at the gate. Never. This is because I would rather them away from the entrance so they had less chance of getting out, and i wouldnt like it to get all muddy and poached. 

Instead my horses were fed _behind_ a neighbors house out of view from the main road. They got supplements, fed twice a day and still had grass and a water trough that was on mains and automatically refilled. We phoned and asked the field officer to come and check on them so that at least we knew there was nothing wrong with how we kept them and to back us up. They told us that the person who phoned obviously just had a quick look over when they were driving past and didnt think to stop by and ask ourselves or the stables. Thats ignorance.

Im just saying my opinion and im not saying that you did the wrong thing but it does save our services time and resources if we look into things before we open our mouths! xx


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

MyboyMacT said:


> They told us that the person who phoned obviously just had a quick look over when they were driving past and didnt think to stop by and ask ourselves or the stables. Thats ignorance.
> 
> Im just saying my opinion and im not saying that you did the wrong thing but it does save our services time and resources if we look into things before we open our mouths! xx


i highly disagree with this. ignorance is the person who looks the other way and lets something continue to happen. you have to understand that not everyone knows about horses and what they do or dont need. some people are not going to be comfortable approaching a stranger on their property to ask them why this and why that. 

i would rather someone is concerned about the well being of an animal, than look the other way and not say anything..... as there are too many people who DONT say anything.....

ive had them called on me twice. was i mad? at first.... but then i thought about it and thought its nice that someone cares about the animals.


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## princess warrior (Dec 28, 2009)

A few years ago my friend saw a horse on the side of the road, it was emaciated, we were shocked to find it lived down the road from me with 2 others as there are so few horses in my area. They could not be seen from the road, so if we had found this horse we never would have known about the others. By the time help got there for those horses, 2 had to be destroyed and the little one lost an eye then died anyway. I lost alot of sleep over that, my daughters watch animal cops on t.v and cannot get over how people misteat animals. We belive in speaking for those who cant speak for themselves. We belive you did the right thing, put the animal first, dont worry about what others think, Too many animals suffer in this world and its great that you care about these horses.


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## Erin_And_Jasper (Jul 5, 2008)

> ignorance is the person who looks the other way and lets something continue to happen.


*Ignorance* is the state in which one lacks knowledge, is unaware of something or chooses to subjectively ignore information.


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## 5cuetrain (Dec 11, 2009)

The only person who can judge whether to call or not is the person who actually saw. If you felt it was the right thing to do then it probably was.

What is a good environment and what is not is subjective at best. This question is not limited to horses for sure. Its a question that spans the entire gambit of the human existance. It is a cultural thing and the only way to effectively change things is to change the culture. No amount of laws, enforcement or government intervention will make a difference.

If we really want to make a difference then maybe we should find a way to begin the process of changing the culture. For sure all of you are horsemen and have the knowledge and intelligence to make that change.

Any ideas???


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

Erin_And_Jasper said:


> *Ignorance* is the state in which one lacks knowledge, is unaware of something or chooses to subjectively ignore information.


 exactly... CHOOSES TO SUBJECTIVELY IGNORE INFORMATION. that would be those who know whats happening but look the other way. they are choosing to ignore. there is a difference in those people, and the ones calling because of CONCERN. maybe they are ignorant to the proper care of horses... but they are not ignorant for calling and taking action. they are doing much more good than the people who do nothing.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> i just dont understand how a whole heard of horses (because obviously there were more than just a few) could never be seen by anyone? and this guy only let you and your dad see them? he had no other friends that ever came over or anything? you couldnt have told someone who doesnt know him to call??? and if there was a farrier that came out... um hello... why couldnt he call?? none of that whole story really adds up.


At the time there were about 6 horses there. At the time the farrier came they were neglected, but none were injured and the old one hadn't gotten sick yet - So there were no grounds to call anyone at that time. The horses had water and pasture. It was at least a year later when the old horse started to deteriorate.

The horses are on a private property, that has another privately owned paddock AND a creek lined with trees between the road and the property, AND the road is a dead end outside of town so only residents drive down it, AND the horses were kept in paddocks well back from the front of the property. There is NO WAY they could have been seen by ANYONE unless they were tresspassing.

My dad's boss is a real estate magnate - Owns half of my city. He doesn't live at the farm, at the time he hardly ever visited the farm, my dad who manages it and me who has my horses there were the only ones who went there, except for preg-testing cattle, etc. The cattle yards and cattle again were out of sight of the horses - If we had taken the vet over and got her to call, it would be obvious that it was my dad or I that had taken her over there with that intention.

Nowadays - It is different. He has brought all his racehorses out there, 30+ horses, so he is actually feeding and maintaining those who are useful, but the other herd are out the back paddocks and only get attention if there is a serious health issue. Neglected, yes, but they are all a good weight and have water. There are tenants at the farm now - But again they are 1. Not horsey people, and 2. The houses aren't anywhere near the horses - The tenants only see the farm on the drive in and out of the houses.

So again - Tell me what I should have done. I can only imagine that you are of higher intellect as I wracked my brains the whole time it was happening for something I could do and came up with zilch. We snuck those horses the bosses hay - No improvement. I can only imagine that horse had something wrong internally - Teeth, ulcers, etc. that was making him lose condition as the other orses, while not fat, weren't starving. As someone else said, legally I could not call a vet to treat someone elses horses - I constantly harried my dad to ask his boss to get a vet - He asked and cajoled as often as he could but nothing.


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

im not getting into it anymore because i could give a ton of ways i would have went about it, but its over now. so let the thread get back on top of the OP and what she did, not you. nor what i would have done...


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## randiekay215 (Feb 6, 2009)

Going back to the OP: you completely did the right thing! I wouldnt in a million years think about having a "chat" with the guy about his animals. You obviously know what a horse should and shouldnt look like, and what care the animals should be getting compared to what they are actually getting. I know if I would have seen it I would have done the exact same thing! I also was a little stunned to read this thread and see what some people have said about calling AC. I cant imagine ANY of them would have just turned a blind eye or confronted the creep-o about his horses. Good for you for standing up for what you think is right. I just wish there were more people like you......I guess its just easier for people to ignore it rather than take action.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

I've been following this thread with interest but declined to post until now. Obviously this is an issue that promotes a lot of emotion and passion. This is both a good and a bad thing. 

I loved the poster who made the comment about a passerby thinking the flymasks were blindfolds; I get that all the time, and I get some weird questions about grazing muzzles too. Just one time I'm going to respond "That horse - that's Hannibal Lecter's horse, that's why we keep him that way" just for the reaction. 

However, there was a really good point made early in this thread that got lost in the passion/argument/defensiveness. 

If you suspect animal neglect or cruelty, it's better if you make a *credible* report. Have your facts straight. Stick to facts, and detailed observations. Avoid opinion, inferences and your feelings. Saying "I'm concerned about my neighbor's horses. He has 3 horses on a half acre with no grass. When he got them 6 weeks ago, they had a body condition score of 6, now they're down to a 3. I drive by twice a day and I've never seen hay out." is a credible report, saying "My horrible neighbor is starving his horses!" is less so. 

Consider whether there's another plausible explanation. Is it a starving horse? Or a foundery horse confined to a dry lot? Or a mare newly weaned off a foal or with mastitis on a restricted diet? I've been told I was being cruel in all three of those scenarios by well-meaning but not well informed individuals. 

Consider if what your seeing constitutes poor stable management vs. neglect vs. abuse. Does what your seeing rise to the level of neglect or abuse? It varies by statue and locality, but neglect usually involves a deficiency of one of the big three, food/water/shelter. 

With the detail that was provided later in this thread, any reasonable person can concur that calling Animal Control was the correct thing to do. With the limited info provided in the first post, a reasonable person *could* make a different call. 

If you suspect neglect, abuse or cruelty, don't let your passion for horses and your emotional reaction to a horse in distress completely overide your rational processes. Think it through, gather your facts, then make a report. Your report will be taken more seriously if you keep it rational and factual.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

.......


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Tempers have settled and some posts removed. It's been requested that the thread be reopened so it is. Please stay on topic.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

First time reading what was obviously a train wreck.

Wildspot I understood your posts. Totally.
I think Maura summed it up quite well actually.

Emotions are not what to call on, Facts are what to call on.

And for sure, if someone thinks an animal is truly being abused, call it in. But just because people do not keep their animals in the same conditions you do does not make them cruel.

OP, just FYI - In NY you are not required to have shelter for horses. So if that was your complaint they will not follow thru on it. No shelter is not something that is actionable. There is also no minimum amount of space requirement. Lots of horses live in straight stalls. I am sure if there was a minimum requirement a tie stall would not fit it.

I am also confused by your comment about no vet care. 

Are all the people on this forum who do their own shots and only have the vets out for an emergency being cruel?


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> OP, just FYI - In NY you are not required to have shelter for horses. So if that was your complaint they will not follow thru on it. No shelter is not something that is actionable.


 see i didnt know that, and im NY. i just figured it was required because well... i dont know, that seemed like a common sense thing to me to have. but huh... thats interesting. not that its going to change my mind and im going to tear down the barn and shelter that we have in the paddock lol, but its interesting to know....


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## GoldRush (Dec 14, 2009)

Unfortunatly, Equestriun, you poked a sore spot. I believe you did the right thing. Animal Control was invented for this very thing. It is their job to investigate and take measures in this type of case. You are smart not to confront this person yourself. 
There is a cute little Halflinger in a pasture by my house. His belly is full of worms, he has only grass to nibble among the tar weed and velcro plant, and the only reason he has fresh water is that a neighbor found him one too many times without water and hooked up a auto-fill to the water line. Another neighbor, seeing how the poor creature was so thin, bought bags of feed, and goes out every day to feed him some. She is in her 80's, a widow, and never asks for a penny from the owner. The owner has dementia, half the time doesn't know she even has a horse, much less feed it. Her son, who is supposed to be there caring for his mom, is on the road most of the time, and never home. The neighbors have talked to the woman about her horse, some offering to adopt it, but the woman won't let it go. The horse was born there, and has never ever been out of the field. I could stand it no more, amd talked to the neighbors myself, getting the full story. I called animal control myself, since everyone was afraid to 'get involved'. They came out and did an assessment. The officer called me back, and said they couldn't do anything. "But the horse needs help!" I cried. "If the horse has water and someone is feeding it, and it is not in need of emergency vet care, we can't do anything." That was that. I truly hope it is different where you live.
Please keep us updated on the situation, Equestriun. I for one am hoping this story has a happy ending!
You go, girl!


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## sillysally (Feb 13, 2009)

AlmagroN said:


> see i didnt know that, and im NY. i just figured it was required because well... i dont know, that seemed like a common sense thing to me to have. but huh... thats interesting. not that its going to change my mind and im going to tear down the barn and shelter that we have in the paddock lol, but its interesting to know....


The state laws may not require certain things, but that does not mean local laws do not. In most cases counties, towns, or cities can make have different laws than the state as long as they are MORE strict than the state laws. Just because the state does not require a shelter is meaningless if the county DOES require one.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

Do we have an update on this situation?

So glad you noticed and called all the resources you could. I really hope something positive comes out of this.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

Updates are the horses are still there, without any shelter, and have icicles hanging off their winter fur. I still have gotten no call back and I called three times.


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## FlyinSoLow (Jan 5, 2010)

Equestriun said:


> Updates are the horses are still there, without any shelter, and have icicles hanging off their winter fur. I still have gotten no call back and I called three times.


If Animal Cruelty was called and they are still there I would reframe from contacting anyone further. It could be that they are giving the guy a chance to improve things, or they are currently in the process of arranging a place for the horses to go, or they think the current living conditions are acceptable...

Either way you obviously made it the business of Animal Cruelty, leave them work it out now like you wanted them too.


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## deineria (Mar 22, 2009)

Animal Cruelty, in my state, is a joke. They do not care what is done to animals under any circumstances and will not do anything, regardless of how bad it is.
That may be the case here, it may not.
Clearly, we can feel confident that if the man is child rapist/molester living in a house that sounds as if it should be condemned, and the horses look in bad shape, Animal protection should have been called (why on earth assume he cares for his animals when he is convicted of abusing children?). I am shocked and find it sad that anyone, given the first post, would have questioned the calling of an agency. 
Also, I find the comments about the dog being picked up rather silly. If a dog is running in the middle of the road and you take it, how is anyone to say who's dog it was and show someone stole the animal? If the animal isn't in your yard, you are breaking the law and the pound would pick it up without a second thought and ticket you for having it loose when you go get it. Knowing the dog came from the yard has little to do with it - when you let your animals roam free on public or government property, such as the public road ways - you can little claim over them.

There is a certain condition animals should be kept in, without question. That is how we define animal cruelty - a lack of an understood standard - and even that standard needs improved. Those conditions described do not sound like the minimum standard is being met, and there was unquestionable cause to call out officers to confirm this. Just because nothing happens NEVER means the conditions ended up being sufficient. 

Far better to call out animal cruelty and be wrong than to let it go and the animals suffer. . .How can someone even question that? How many animals might have been tortured or suffered immeasurable continued neglect and abuse had someone not called in something that seemed even a "little" off?


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

justsambam08 said:


> Well, unless she's blind, I'd say she can see the difference between a well-fed, dirty and fuzzy horse and a starved dirty and fuzzy horse.
> 
> Personally if I was in that position, if someone called the SPCA or whatnot on me, even if their investigation revealed nothing, that would be a wake up call to me that maybe I should change a few things, like build a run-in and maybe get the icicles off of my horses belly. If I was really adventurous, I'd but them each a blanket.
> 
> I definitely would have done the same thing....probably would have taken the dog home with me too, just to see if the guy actually noticed it was missing or not.



I agree with this assesment. I would be fine with having AC checking out my barn--it's perfectly safe and my horses are well-fed and healthy. He really shouldn't mind AC checking up on him if he believes the care he's provided for his horses is acceptable. I wouldn't mind it. If he has a problem with it, he should change his horses living conditions


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## HyTec (Jan 9, 2010)

Sorry this is so long, but it is my own experience with a neglected horse I wanted to share....
When I was 16 years old (Many years ago) and lived on Eastern Long Island NY, I would ride my horse through trails that led past a "shanty" type home deep in the woods, with a dirt driveway that led out to the back road for cars. I rode past that place everyday after school to the fields and trails along the powerlines. After about 2 months the "shanty" had a horse at it, skinny and shaggy-but it was a horse in "my" neigborhood, and I thought "wow, maybe someone to ride with". Well, the woman was pregnant, had a little toddler and a husband-and THEY lived in the shanty, with a dog and a rabbit hopping around. When I call it a shanty, I mean shanty- metal sheeting, irregular legnths of wood just put togather like a kids playhouse in the woods... seriously. But I did not realize what they didn't have, I just noticed a horse. 
Well, we rode together maybe a dozen times and she became closer to her due date, her husband purchased another horse and winter was coming, he put up a plastic sheeting shed for the horses, but kept a few bales of hay in it with car parts, the horses stayed in a 2X4 wood corral, that was maybe 16 by 16ft. As winter went on I went riding less due to icy conditions and when I went past I would see very skinny horses with ice attatched to the hair, but I thought they were getting fed. I started letting my mother know about the horses in the woods, and she became interested in helping-we purchased a bag of grain and I directed her to where the road was to get up to the driveway, she talked to the woman and she accepted the grain-but the husband was VERY angry that we gave charity to them, so I would ride with Calf Manna supplements in my pockets-hand feeding them when we passed by. 
But deep winter came and I missed riding that way a few weeks, it was lethal for the second horse- I rode past one day and saw him lay down, and had a horrible feeling in my gut.... I made My horse run home, I ran in my house and called my mother at work, told her "Dusty is down for the count" I will never forget my words..... she knew I never would say such a thing if it wasn't desperate, she called the ASPCA who met me there at Dusty's place, I brought a blanket from home for him but even the ASPCA who called in a vet couldn't save him, he died. WE stayed with him all night, turning him and giving him warm molasses water with electrolytes, the Vet gave him an injection of epinephrine for a last chance to get him to his feet but he couldn't do it. He lost hope in humans, as I watched. The husband was really angry, they moved, the ASPCA condemned the home and CPS was brought in for the kids as well, the husband was brought up on animal cruelty charges. The other horse was placed into a boarding facility "up the Island" and he was watched by the ASPCA-I don't know what happened to him after that.
Dusty's "real" name was Along The Rails, he was a Thoroughbred race horse who deserved better, and as humans that expect to use them for enjoyment we need to care for their most basic needs-food/water and shelter. Occasional brushing is also welcome. 
I promised Dusty that if I ever saw another horse in need I would try and help, and since I have that "gut" feeling from God above - I feel it is my responsibility to the great creature we call The Horse.


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## Erin_And_Jasper (Jul 5, 2008)

Along The Rails Horse Pedigree

this horse?


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

HyTec said:


> Sorry this is so long, but it is my own experience with a neglected horse I wanted to share....
> When I was 16 years old (Many years ago) and lived on Eastern Long Island NY, I would ride my horse through trails that led past a "shanty" type home deep in the woods, with a dirt driveway that led out to the back road for cars. I rode past that place everyday after school to the fields and trails along the powerlines. After about 2 months the "shanty" had a horse at it, skinny and shaggy-but it was a horse in "my" neigborhood, and I thought "wow, maybe someone to ride with". Well, the woman was pregnant, had a little toddler and a husband-and THEY lived in the shanty, with a dog and a rabbit hopping around. When I call it a shanty, I mean shanty- metal sheeting, irregular legnths of wood just put togather like a kids playhouse in the woods... seriously. But I did not realize what they didn't have, I just noticed a horse.
> Well, we rode together maybe a dozen times and she became closer to her due date, her husband purchased another horse and winter was coming, he put up a plastic sheeting shed for the horses, but kept a few bales of hay in it with car parts, the horses stayed in a 2X4 wood corral, that was maybe 16 by 16ft. As winter went on I went riding less due to icy conditions and when I went past I would see very skinny horses with ice attatched to the hair, but I thought they were getting fed. I started letting my mother know about the horses in the woods, and she became interested in helping-we purchased a bag of grain and I directed her to where the road was to get up to the driveway, she talked to the woman and she accepted the grain-but the husband was VERY angry that we gave charity to them, so I would ride with Calf Manna supplements in my pockets-hand feeding them when we passed by.
> But deep winter came and I missed riding that way a few weeks, it was lethal for the second horse- I rode past one day and saw him lay down, and had a horrible feeling in my gut.... I made My horse run home, I ran in my house and called my mother at work, told her "Dusty is down for the count" I will never forget my words..... she knew I never would say such a thing if it wasn't desperate, she called the ASPCA who met me there at Dusty's place, I brought a blanket from home for him but even the ASPCA who called in a vet couldn't save him, he died. WE stayed with him all night, turning him and giving him warm molasses water with electrolytes, the Vet gave him an injection of epinephrine for a last chance to get him to his feet but he couldn't do it. He lost hope in humans, as I watched. The husband was really angry, they moved, the ASPCA condemned the home and CPS was brought in for the kids as well, the husband was brought up on animal cruelty charges. The other horse was placed into a boarding facility "up the Island" and he was watched by the ASPCA-I don't know what happened to him after that.
> ...


Thank you for sharing this story. I hope this thread leads to this with a good ending for those horses, same as the one you help save.

I don't want to let my faith come into my answer but I do Thank God for people like you two and so many others scattered around this board. People who work so hard and will well beyond what they are supposed to do in order to save a life. I have no doubt in my mind you have given this horse a second/third chance in life.

A very touching story. Thank you for sharing it.


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## CarribeanLiving (Jan 12, 2010)

Its disturbing that people think they can take a dog home and keep it if the dog is out and about. Dogs get out, that happens, and the owner may be heartbroken that their family member is missing. It is possible that the owner is doing a great job with their dog. Help the dog out and post some notices but don't just take it home and keep it. I know people who lost their dog in this way. They and their kids were heartbroken!


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

The post I made about a neglected gelding...
The man that owned him had crappy fencing like I said and we drove by SEVERAL times and the horse was standing in the busy highway... 
Made me SICK. These are 1000+lb animals, imagine what would happen if a car hit the poor horse. Someone could have been killed !


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## GoldRush (Dec 14, 2009)

"...people think they can take a dog home and keep it if the dog is out and about..."
I think it has to be a judgement call. There were some people living near my sister's house that had a young golden retriever. They lived on a street where people drove fast, and around that area there is a corner, so you can't see when the dog is in the road!
I myself had come quite close to hitting the dog, and had on more than one occasion caught the dog, and brought him home. The conditions this dog was living in were IMO deplorable. They had him in a tiny 'yard', smaller than a tiny bedroom, and this was a BIG dog! They also kept the garbage cans and bags in there, which he had (out of boredom or hunger) ripped into, so the yard was filled with garbage, much of which were diapers! This was a smart, beautiful animal, and he was (again, IMO) neglected and uncared for. One day, I just couldn't take it any more, and stopped my car, called the dog over, and took him home. I felt pangs of guilt, but swallowed them when I saw how the dog dug into good, healthy food, and drank like he'd never had water in his life!
There was a tag on him, so someone had loved him once...I ended up giving in to my conscience and called the number on the tag, pretending to have 'found' the dog. The story was this...the owner was a disabled man, a widower, who only had the dog as a companion. He had been in the hospital, but was home now with a nurse. His daughter was caring for his beloved dog until he was well enough to bring him back home. The man was so grateful that I had found him, and had his nurse drive him over to pick the dog up. There were tears in his eyes when they arrived, and I saw that he really cared for this animal. I had to make a judgement call as to whether to tell him about his daughter's 'care' or not. I ended up telling him a brief bit, offering my services whenever he needed help. He was moving in with his other daughter and they were better equipped to handle things. 
So, I guess it is a judgement call, depending on the situation, area, and what the animal control laws are.


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## HyTec (Jan 9, 2010)

RE: Along The Rails pedigree

I don't believe its the same horse, he would have been a 1980 -1982 gelding; they had his Jockey Club papers and showed me his name at the time. I did not have any idea what I was looking at other than his name, I didn't look at Sire/Dam back then, I was only 16 years old and just happy to have someone else in the neighborhood with a horse.....
Unfortunately they didn't have the ability to care for them properly. They called him "Dusty" and he was brought from a dealer on Eastern/Mid Long Island NY that picked horses up at the track and re-sold them. 

I continue today to look for horses in need of a little TLC and attempt to encourage the owners to realize what they may be lacking but without acting pushy. I will not hesitate to contact SPCA if I see it is needed though..... 
Our elderly friend down the road from us currently had a dog that was tied up but had not enough chain to move away from the wall that she was tied to, I spoke up and she was moved that very same day, and he remains our close friend.


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