# Am I in a chair seat?



## Ozzys mum (Aug 7, 2008)

I'm sure there are many other flaws, but I'm just getting back into riding after a bad fall that happened in December and had me in the hospital. But I just keep finding most of the photos I find of myself, I'm in a chair seat. But I'm not sure if I'm going to get it any better without putting myself in a worse position.

I think my toes are at the girth on each of these shots... but to me it looks off. After a number of disastrous saddle attempts - so far this is the best fit for me, my horse and my wallet at this time.








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This was from 3 weeks ago








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This was from todays lesson.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

I'm not an English guru, but I would say you do look chair seated. But that almost looks where your saddle wants to put you. 

If you haven't been riding for a while, those muscles may be out of shape!! When you mount your horse, make sure you do exercises and stretches to get yourself lumber to be in the proper alignment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Yes. Your leg is too far forward (notice how it's almost interfering with the horse's leg?).. probably from jamming your heels down. What happens when you let your leg drop naturally?


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

First picture, you are not, second, your leg is too forward but not really a chair seat. You need to sit up more, and get your chest out, practise that for a while then see how it goes.


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## Ozzys mum (Aug 7, 2008)

Thanks for your feedback. I ride 5 days a week and have been back in the saddle for a month now, so I'm thinking my leg muscles should be pretty close to back to normal. But I've had to switch coaches again, and I developed some bad habits with the first one, as I was there the longest. Uneven hands, I tend to look down between my horses ears or into the center of the ring. My new coach is forever after me to have boobs out, sit up and head up. I think within the next year I will be looking for a new saddle AGAIN... so hopefully i can find something maybe a bit more helpful.
Any exercises I should do to try to fix this?


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Exercises on the horse you mean? A great one is to ride from focal point to focal point, which means pick a focal point straight ahead of you, off a distance and up higher, ride to it, then when you get there pick another. Don't take your eyes off the focal point. Works very well for making you sit up straight and looking ahead. Those two things for some reason make you sit better on a horse.


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## soenjer55 (Dec 4, 2011)

I'm wondering if dropping your stirrups down a hole or so might help...? I feel like it's really just the saddle putting you there, though.


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## Ozzys mum (Aug 7, 2008)

Thanks Waresbear - its a bit easier in the outdoor to do that, same thing my coach was reminding me to do. But indoor is harder - but I will try it and get some more photos taken.


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## Ozzys mum (Aug 7, 2008)

You know Soenjer - you just reminded me. We changed the length of the stirrups because they have stretched so we were looking for two holes somewhat even. I totally forgot about that - I'm now going to go pick up new ones tomorrow and see if that helps.


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## Ozzys mum (Aug 7, 2008)

Can't post more photos until Sunday, but bought new leathers which helped IMMENSELY!!! Who would have thought 

And I borrowed a back riser pad from the local tack store when I described the problem to them.

Todays lesson I asked my coach and she said yes this definately improves my seat. But I will be fighting the chair seat as my horse is EXTREMELY uphill - and that build is a saddle nightmare. She would like to see a bit more rise in the back if possible, so I'm going to see if the tack shop has something more I can try. I don't want to put too much pressure on his withers or front. But it felt a lot better!


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

That’s not a chair seat. THESE are a chair seat.


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)




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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

And these ones aren’t even as extreme as some I have seen; one guy who was a station manager on a place I worked actually rode around like he was lounging back in a laZboy. Astonishing to watch, how he didn’t fall off I think was only due to being wedged in under the kneepads of the saddle.


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## Ozzys mum (Aug 7, 2008)

Thanks AndrwPL - I guess I'm not THAT bad! :wink: But would like a more straight leg from shoulders, hips down....


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

Meh, in your photos you didn’t look bad to me. All I'd suggest, and I have no idea about any “English” style of riding so take it with a grain of salt, is to sit a little straighter from your seat to your shoulders, you seem to be leaning a tad forwards (again I have no idea about dressage so I could be completely wrong); and perhaps ride with your stirrups a touch longer. You might just need a little more length to sink into the saddle and let your body straighten out.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

The photos AnrewPL showed are fairly common in western riding. I usually spend some time every ride doing that. As long as I move my hips with my horse and don't brace against the stirrups, it works fine for us both. At least in my experience, when I do that, much of my weight is carried by my thighs and my butt is fairly light in the saddle. But it is NOT proper riding for an English saddle...

A tip I liked was to get in the saddle, hold the front, and shove my knees as low as I could get them. Then relax. I don't jump, so I can't comment about that.

This is at a canter, but it is from a George Morris book showing what he says is good position:


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## TurkishVan (Feb 11, 2013)

I was going to suggest getting a riser pad to tip your saddle forward a bit, but it looks like you've already done that! 
I had a bit of the same problem. But I only noticed it because my "girly bits" were catching on the pommel of my english saddle every time I'd rise in the trot.  I thought it was just me on the learning curve, but turns out it wasn't completely! It really hurt!
Now that I have the riser pad, I don't have to consciously place my legs back a few inches. They just fall in to place naturally.


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## Ozzys mum (Aug 7, 2008)

Here is today's lesson. We have new leathers, I have a riser pad - although the coach would like to see it even higher. I've tried stretching out my legs first and then putting them into the stirrups - unfortunately I didn't remember to do that this time. But when I move my leg back to where it looks like it should be it feels like its way behind me.
Here's some photos from today, a couple look better, but I'm also in a two point, or a half seat.

This one to me looks chair seatish...


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## Ozzys mum (Aug 7, 2008)

And these two are me in a lighter seat and I think my leg is better.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Ozzys mum said:


> Here is today's lesson. We have new leathers, I have a riser pad - although the coach would like to see it even higher. I've tried stretching out my legs first and then putting them into the stirrups - unfortunately I didn't remember to do that this time. But when I move my leg back to where it looks like it should be it feels like its way behind me.
> Here's some photos from today, a couple look better, but I'm also in a two point, or a half seat.
> 
> This one to me looks chair seatish...


It's the angle of the photo. Straight to the side I think it would be in nice alignment.

I see improvement in the angles of your leg. Less chair-y.


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## Ozzys mum (Aug 7, 2008)

And one last one - here is him just with the saddle and no rider. Could it be the saddle?


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## Ozzys mum (Aug 7, 2008)

Thanks Sky, didn't even think camera angle. I am trying hard to work on my leg - it seems to be the hardest thing to get back!


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## soenjer55 (Dec 4, 2011)

I'm definitely not a trainer, but overall, I like your leg and seat in the last pictures you posted. I think your trainer is right, it looks like you need a bit more height in the saddle (your horse is really uphill, lol), but overall, I think your leg is much better. 
Compare your pictures to the picture that bsms posted, of good position according to George Morris- pretty darn close, if you ask me.


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## Standardbred (Dec 21, 2011)

I haven't read all the posts so someone may have already mentioned this, but you may find it easier to keep your leg back if you lengthen your stirrups a hole or two and move your bum further forward in the saddle.
When sitting in the saddle, you should feel as if you are sitting on three 'points', making a triangle. If your bum is to the back of the saddle and you are slouching, you will lose the three points. To regain them, shift further forward in the saddle (in photo two on page one, you are quite far back in the saddle and you should sit roughly in the middle), relax your heels down and 'grow' taller through your pelvis, engaging your stomach muscles and lengthening your back.
Hope this helps. 
By the way, you have a gorgeous horse!!


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

*I don't jump*. However, it is pretty obvious jumpers don't have their heels stuck back under their hips. This picture of Gen Patton helps show it:










His center of gravity is over the stirrups, but his butt isn't!

Littauer said riding isn't about how you look in a static picture, but how you move and balance on a moving horse. How do you feel about your balance? Is it with the horse, or behind? How is your balance affecting your horse's balance? Those are the things I would suggest discussing with your coach.

I'm a mostly western rider, but I'd suggest not worrying about a 'chair seat' and focus instead on how your balance feels. Talk it over with your coach and maybe she can have you try a few different things while in motion, so you can feel how the changes affect your balance.


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## onuilmar (Feb 8, 2013)

I agree with bsms in the above. 

It's the balance is over the feet. As one folds over the jump, the shoulders come down (of course in front of the feet) and the butt goes back to compensate. Otherwise, one is "ahead" of the horse or one's center of gravity is in front of the horse's.

Conversely, the infamous "chair seat" would be when the rider's center of gravity is behind his/her feet. Think about the alignment when one sits in a chair. Where is the "sitter's" center of gravity? 

In riding the rider's center of gravity should be directly over one's feet. Or as my instructor says, if horse were pulled out from under the rider, the rider would land balanced on his/her feet. 

For jumping (as my instructor also says), the crouch a baseball player or tennis player assumes "at the ready" is really the fold for jumping. It is the most balanced position for a person on two feet. The center of gravity is as low as it goes.

ETA: While the "vertical pole" through the shoulders, hips and ankles works when the rider is fairly straight, it changes as the rider crouches into a two point. I'm always told the same angle that occurs with the leg should be repeated at the waist. So the pole really will no longer pass through the hip and shoulders as those two weights go in different directions as the body is compacted.


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## Ozzys mum (Aug 7, 2008)

Thank you everyone for your comments, I've gone back and looked at some of my other photos and I think what I'm thinking of that straight line, is more a dressage ride then mine. And I totally understand the weight needing to be in your feet more then worrying about the straight line - sometimes I know I over think things. I will continue to ride without stirrups as part of my schooling rides, which should help AND far more schooling two point, as I'm pretty week there. I find I'm either too low and not in a true two point or I'm way up too high.

But here is another shot. It kinda looks like my seat is in the saddle but I do remember that jump and it was just hovering above - it was probably my best landing of the night.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Nice position


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