# What is your least favorite discipline and why?



## Palfrey (May 29, 2020)

Dressage was created a long time ago by a Greek nobleman named Xenophon. He knew there was a better way to train his cavalry for battle and set about doing so. Back in those times, mounted warfare could change the tide of any battle. Horse and rider NEEDED to move as one, and executing battle formations correctly was key. Discipline is a renowned military trait even in today's times--that's why you will see dressage ridden to exactness with movements performed at certain letters, lines and within all gaits.

I've never thought the clothes as fancy, but rather conservative. They as well all have a purpose and are steeped in tradition. Again, going back to military dress, you should be presented neatly, with polished boots, well groomed horse and spotless clothes. You can still see today in competitions members of police or military riding in their uniform.

The 'salute' goes back to the days of the Renaissance when you would salute the King--when riding correctly became more of an art form during these years of artistic enlightenment. You can still see this tradition of saluting at the Spanish Riding School in Vienna. Before each performance begins the riders all remove their hats and salute a portrait of King Charles VI in the large riding hall. In today's competition, you salute the judge and then you begin your test, after the judge has saluted you as well of course.

Dressage (taking its name from the French and meaning "training") is a very useful discipline to learn. Just the basics from dressage help improve the rider (and help the horse) in other disciplines such as jumping. Developing an independent seat is the paramount of dressage training and can help many a rider have a more successful ride.

I hope this sheds some light onto dressage for you as to some of the "hows" and "whys". And I won't deny that to a non-dressage person, it can be pretty boring. Sometimes, even dressage people can get bored with it--the horses too! That's why a nice hack is always good!


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## All About Hope (Nov 10, 2020)

> Dressage was created a long time ago by a Greek nobleman named Xenophon. He knew there was a better way to train his cavalry for battle and set about doing so. Back in those times, mounted warfare could change the tide of any battle. Horse and rider NEEDED to move as one, and executing battle formations correctly was key. Discipline is a renowned military trait even in today's times--that's why you will see dressage ridden to exactness with movements performed at certain letters, lines and within all gaits.
> 
> I've never thought the clothes as fancy, but rather conservative. They as well all have a purpose and are steeped in tradition. Again, going back to military dress, you should be presented neatly, with polished boots, well groomed horse and spotless clothes. You can still see today in competitions members of police or military riding in their uniform.
> 
> ...


Thanks for clarifying. I've always wondered where it came from but I was always too lazy to look it up lol.

And why can't western events be in the Olympics??? (sry that was random)


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

The OP must be very young. I don't have a least favorite discipline now that I have lived in the world. Who's eyes would not be moved to tears when seeing this?


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

First of all, Competitive Dressage, with the top hat and tails, the purpose-bred Warmblood, etc. is not the only dressage, not at all. It is just the one that is a popular sport now. It passed through the hands of the English and Germans, and they endowed it with a starchy 19th century upper-class formality which is not to everyone's taste these days. But that was not how it was originally.

The origin of what we know now as dressage is probably 16th century Iberia, not ancient Greece. War horses, bullfighting horses, cow horses, were some of the original uses of dressage training; the horses used were the Iberian types that we think of as Baroque (same era). Lipizzaners, Andalusians, and the like. Reining horses? That discipline is founded on Iberian Vaquero arts which is based on, yes, Classical dressage. You bet those Iberian war horses and bullfighting horses would be able to handle a trail ride. Courage, agile footwork, and responsiveness were bred into them and trained into them. Still are.

So, although I dislike what competitive dressage has become, its ultimate ancestry is the same as many western disciplines, believe it or not.

To answer the OP though, I will honestly say I loathe Park Horse, with its inhumane shoeing, bitting, and all for a repulsive artificial "animation" -- and I include everything -- Saddle Seat, Fine Harness, Big Lick, all of it, probably more than anything else. Makes me writhe in sympathy for those poor horses who spend their whole performing lives in "tail sets", with stimulants, irritants, whips, and anything anyone can think of to get that tortured "sparkle". A thousand times ugh.

But having seen barrel horses' brains scrambled into crazy mush, I can't say I'm any kind of a fan of that either.


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

You do not see any signals from the rider. They move as one creature. This is what most of us here dream of and seek with our horses. There is also Cowboy Dressage where they too seek to be like a centaur with their horse.

Here is another discipline, racing. This is the mare Zenyata.


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## All About Hope (Nov 10, 2020)

I do like watching the Triple Crown races. I have a slight obsession with Thoroughbred pedigrees and look up the winner's pedigree to see if they have my favorite horses, Secretariat and Man O' War.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

After reading through a recent thread about eventing, I guess eventing is my least favorite horse sport. I've watched it before and it's really impressive, but I didn't realize so many horses died because of it. I think it's one thing if people want to do dangerous sports and put themselves at risk, but to risk the life of a trusting, sentient animal is not very kind.


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

Dressage actually is my favourite discipline, at least to ride. However, I own a well trained school master of a dressage horse, and if you know how to push the right buttons she'll do absolutely anything for you. I think you would probably appreciate dressage after some lessons on a horse that's well trained for it. It's absolutely amazing what you can accomplish, and the harmony you feel with the horse.

For me, barrels would probably be my least favourite to compete in, as I'm not a fan of speed. And the cross country portion of eventing -- while I think I would find it more engaging for me than barrels, as I have some background in jumping -- I would be absolutely terrified for my life the whole time. So, yikes to both of those, as far as me having to ride them.


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

I am a hospital nurse and I took care of the man who saved the Spanish Riding School from the Nazis (in World War II with the help of the US Army and General Patton ). If you will see the film the Miracle of the White Stallions you will see how this happened. He was 96 years old when he came to to the US to teach dressage lessons. He was admitted to my ER critially ill, stayed there hor months and nearly died several times.. We became friends.He recovered well enough to be transfered. I was then his flight nurse to take him back to an English hospital. His English horse lady friends made sure I had brought my riding boots. The next day put me up on a big black fox hunting horse. And away we all went acrosss the countryside, jumping fences and hedges. I am NOT a jumper. I only rode my horse to jump logs in the trails. It was not a great experience. In fact, it was a horrible experience. But I think I would like fox hunting. They drink heavily and I would need that 

He recovered enough to live in assisted living. Every morning his admirrers would bring him to the school, pull the car up beside the fence, open the door and he would yell things like Half halt! Drops Your Hands! in his austrian accent. He lived and taught for 2 more years. When he passed away, his funeral hearse was drawn by 4 white horses. In the hospial in Texas, when he was in critical condition (multiple times) I asked him what he thought happens when people died. He said "Conversano Siglave would come to him and take him to see God. Conversano Siglave was the best horse he ever had , he told me. He gave me a picture of him ridinging the Piaffe. 

Now, with my new horse, a Saddlebred, I am taking beginner dressage lessons. Also, when I was 18 I had the honor of working at a race track. The first and best horse of my life I bought with my babysitting money was off the track, a half thorobred half quarter horse. Some here have criticised the cross but she was the first and greatest of all the horses I have known. She had the courage, heart and bone structure of theTB and the muscle and mind of a Quarter Horse. She outran 38 horses a teenage girl could race, carried me over mountain ranges in storms at night and swam in the sea. She lived 40 years. I told the man who saved the Spanish Riding School about her. He said you have hard hands. Thats because she loved to run and pulled like a freight train.


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## TaMMa89 (Apr 12, 2008)

*MODERATOR'S (preventative) NOTE*

Even we are talking about things that we don't like, please keep the thread civil & constructive. Disagreeing is OK, explaining things is OK, but these things have to be done in respective manner.

If the thread takes unconstructive turn, it may becomes closed or removed.


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## ~Wildheart~ (Nov 17, 2020)

I’m not a fan of western pleasure... the horses movements look so unnatural and it’s just kinda boring to watch. Sorry western pleasure people.


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

~Wildheart~ said:


> I’m not a fan of western pleasure... the horses movements look so unnatural and it’s just kinda boring to watch. Sorry western pleasure people.


This is interesting, as I can relate to what you're saying. I used to feel really uncomfortable about the movement of western pleasure horses too, and I've seen horses that were obviously being forced and that were uncomfortable or even in pain. But recently I've met a horse with the slowest, most perfect pleasure jog that I've ever seen. And he loves it - it's practically his default gait that he goes into and he needs no controlling or forcing into it. So, it's still not my favourite discipline but this horse has at least taught me to keep an open mind and not judge everyone who participates in the same discipline alike.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

I agree with @Avna Park horse is my least favorite followed very closely by todays modern Western Pleasure. Both are ugly and grotesque to the eye. the horses do not flow or move in a natural manner (IMO) and the riders look awkward as they ride.


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## 289134 (Dec 3, 2020)

If I had to pick disciplines I don't like I would generally say almost all the western disciplines: cutting, reining, *especially *barrel racing, and western pleasure. They just don't suit me, I'm not the kind of rider that finds those disciplines interesting though I do support my friends that are heavily involved in western disciplines.

The biggest turn offs for me is that I don't see a lot of owners in western disciplines actually working their horses properly or choosing horses that have the right conformation for longevity in those disciplines. By properly I mean muscle wastage, as in they focus too much on schooling and not enough on conditioning. This could just be something prevalent in my neck of the woods though. 🙃


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Lilacladder said:


> By properly I mean muscle wastage, as in they focus too much on schooling and not enough on conditioning.


Really? Western sport horses like barrel racers don't have enough muscle? Cutting horses don't? Well, whatever.....


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## kewpalace (Jul 17, 2013)

Lilacladder said:


> The biggest turn offs for me is that I don't see a lot of owners in western disciplines actually working their horses properly or choosing horses that have the right conformation for longevity in those disciplines. By properly I mean muscle wastage, as in they focus too much on schooling and not enough on conditioning. This could just be something prevalent in my neck of the woods though.


What you say may be true of local riders, not serious competitors (although I can't speak to Western Pleasure), but those who regularly show in cutting, reining and cowhorse DEFINTELY work on their horses, not only conditioning, but schooling as well (which also helps condition horses). If you aren't showing competitively, your horse does not need to be in top physical condition nor be the "type" to do any specific discipline at the local weekend show. They are there to have fun and/or school their horse. It's all good.

FWIW, I do show competitively and know to be competitive your horse better be in good condition AND schooled.

My cowhorse filly (I don't yet show her, but these show her conditioning):




















My cowhorse mare (I did the training on this mare and showed/show her competitively):



















Mustang filly (this was to be my trainer's cowhorse futurity filly until they cancelled the futurity for the Mustangs; she did not have the build for cowhorse, but had they had the competition, she would have been competitive; she was awesome in reining and on the cow):


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## 289134 (Dec 3, 2020)

bsms said:


> Really? Western sport horses like barrel racers don't have enough muscle? Cutting horses don't? Well, whatever.....


Please reread my comment, that is clearly not what I stated.


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## All About Hope (Nov 10, 2020)

Lilacladder said:


> Please reread my comment, that is clearly not what I stated.


Maybe you should reword what you said. It's causing some confusion. I don't know what you mean by that statement either.


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## Txshecat0423 (May 27, 2020)

Cross country jumping is my least favorite. The heights and widths of what those horses are asked to navigate and/or jump is insane to me. But I don’t jump so I’m sure it’s all in the eye of the beholder [emoji2]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kewpalace (Jul 17, 2013)

Txshecat0423 said:


> Cross country jumping ... The heights and widths of what those horses are asked to navigate and/or jump is insane to me.


It IS insane! But when I was younger it is also what drew me to WANT to do it, LOL ...


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## All About Hope (Nov 10, 2020)

Txshecat0423 said:


> Cross country jumping is my least favorite. The heights and widths of what those horses are asked to navigate and/or jump is insane to me. But I don’t jump so I’m sure it’s all in the eye of the beholder [emoji2]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's completely insane. I would never have the guts to do it!


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## 289134 (Dec 3, 2020)

kewpalace said:


> If you aren't showing competitively, your horse does not need to be in top physical condition nor be the "type" to do any specific discipline at the local weekend show. They are there to have fun and/or school their horse. It's all good.
> 
> FWIW, I do show competitively and know to be competitive your horse better be in good condition AND schooled.


You're horses look amazing! Fantastic examples!

As stated I was only talking about my local experiences.

I halfway agree with you in the aforementioned quote. You are right, to have fun at a local show a horse does not need to be in top physical condition or have a specific conformation. However what I am talking about for my area and what I am seeing is that there are a lot of riders taking an interest in specific western disciplines that treat their horses more like cars, then athletes/horses. If the way these people treat their horses is anything like they treat their cars I would NEVER buy a car from them, let alone a horse. These horse owners buy a horse, ride it into the ground, sell it, buy another horse and repeat the cycle.

What I see is a lot of horses expected to compete or work that have a low body condition score, that is what I was referring to previously about not being conditioned and muscle wastage, though in some instances the horse doesn't have enough fat, let alone muscle. And in result a lot of the horses for sale in my area have preventable injuries, have special needs, need additional training because they were not given a foundation, have behavioral issues, and have had their quality of life/lifespan shortened. These owners, who are NOT a reflection of the horse community as a whole, are a high percentage of horse owners in MY area.


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## 289134 (Dec 3, 2020)

Txshecat0423 said:


> Cross country jumping is my least favorite. The heights and widths of what those horses are asked to navigate and/or jump is insane to me. But I don’t jump so I’m sure it’s all in the eye of the beholder [emoji2]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Half of me would love to experience any kind of jumping but the other half is absolutely terrified. Its not even so much the staying on, I just can't imagine its comfortable. Its amazing how those riders stay on so smoothly when they come down from the jump on the backs of their horses. To me it just seems too jarring.


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## 289134 (Dec 3, 2020)

All About Hope said:


> Maybe you should reword what you said. It's causing some confusion. I don't know what you mean by that statement either.


@bsms 
I said "The biggest turn offs for me is that I don't see a lot of owners in western disciplines actually working their horses properly or choosing horses that have the right conformation for longevity in those disciplines. By properly I mean muscle wastage, as in they focus too much on schooling and not enough on conditioning. This could just be something prevalent in my neck of the woods though."

I clearly never stated that horses in these disciplines don't have enough muscle. I gave my opinion on what disciplines are my least favorite and why, based on my local experiences/observations. I never said anything about professionals, competitors, and my comment did not cover every western sport horse in the entire world.

As stated I see a lot of owners focus too much on schooling not enough on conditioning. I frequently see owners in my area teach their horses what they want their horses to know but their horses have low body condition scores. That tells me these horses dietary needs aren't being met and it tells me the horse sits stalled all day or is kept in a tiny paddock and is only taken out to be schooled. And if dietary needs are being met than that means the schooling isn't enough for the horse to have a nice body condition/muscle.

No matter what you ask of your horse, it is an athlete, not a car.

Just to be clear I'm not knocking anyone who stalls their horses 24/7. I know there are circumstances when it is necessary and I know there are horses that prefer to be stalled.


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## Jolly101 (Jul 2, 2018)

This question is hard for me because I don't feel I really have enough knowledge about other disciplines to say whether I truly dislike them. I've been on a few western horses, but have been into English, specifically dressage, for the majority of my riding time. 

That being said, I'd have to say endurance. I've never really had much interest in trail riding, get bored with it, so I don't think I'd be interested in endurance much either. Although, I still think it's cool and like to hear about it. 

I used to not really like western because I saw a lot of 'rough housing' in one barn I was at, but I've actually been a little interested in trying it out more recently, realizing that there is more variations in it than what I had seen.


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## 289134 (Dec 3, 2020)

Jolly101 said:


> This question is hard for me because I don't feel I really have enough knowledge about other disciplines to say whether I truly dislike them. I've been on a few western horses, but have been into English, specifically dressage, for the majority of my riding time.
> 
> That being said, I'd have to say endurance. I've never really had much interest in trail riding, get bored with it, so I don't think I'd be interested in endurance much either. Although, I still think it's cool and like to hear about it.
> 
> I used to not really like western because I saw a lot of 'rough housing' in one barn I was at, but I've actually been a little interested in trying it out more recently, realizing that there is more variations in it than what I had seen.


Your answer is really interesting, I've heard of horses that blatantly prefer trails to arena or vice versa, but you're the first rider I've heard prefer arenas to trails. Is it the trails available to you that you find boring? Do you think you would find a different location more interesting?

I'm not a huge fan of the trails near me, they are all in heavily forested areas so there isn't much to look at. I personally like to see mountains and hills in the distance, I prefer a trail that ends or at least has a couple scenic viewing areas, or being able to see the sky overhead. That's why I usually haul my horses over the mountains near me to go trail riding.

Realizing there are more variations, what western discipline are you interested in trying?


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## Jolly101 (Jul 2, 2018)

Lilacladder said:


> Your answer is really interesting, I've heard of horses that blatantly prefer trails to arena or vice versa, but you're the first rider I've heard prefer arenas to trails. Is it the trails available to you that you find boring? Do you think you would find a different location more interesting?
> 
> I'm not a huge fan of the trails near me, they are all in heavily forested areas so there isn't much to look at. I personally like to see mountains and hills in the distance, I prefer a trail that ends or at least has a couple scenic viewing areas, or being able to see the sky overhead. That's why I usually haul my horses over the mountains near me to go trail riding.
> 
> Realizing there are more variations, what western discipline are you interested in trying?


I like the challenge that (arena) dressage work poses in that it is sort of like problem solving (What am I fixing today and how do I best approach this with the horse I am riding) in a technical perspective. I like toggling with the solutions and then seeing the change in progression with a goal. I haven't really found that same type of challenge in trail riding yet, although my trail riding experiences are rather limited to on-site trails, which I have mostly done for the sake of the horse.

However, I do really enjoy hiking myself, so it is possible I would really like a more scenic trail! I haven't been on any mountain trail rides yet and the barns I have been at had (1) a lot of forest like you mentioned, (2) open fields and (3) a few lakes to swim in. So, in a way, it can be pretty repetitive.

I also am not a fan of bugs and unfortunately, bugs seem to LOVE me, even when I am saturated in bug spray. That kind of deters me away from trails when the bugs are aplenty.

For western, there are actually quite a few I wouldn't mind trying out. Cutting is at the top of my list and has always intrigued me a bit! I think it looks really fun and I hear well trained horses are quite sensitive to the aids, akin to dressage horses. Barrel racing looks like a wicked time and a half. Western pleasure is also looking interesting these days. The gaits just look so relaxing and comfortable compared to the bouncy trot I'm used to sitting! Then there are the trail classes that can be quite useful skills for a horse and rider to know. 

I'm also interested in seeing how much english and western differ in position and aid application. I know there are some things that align and others that are as different as night and day.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I'll answer the question based on all the disciplines I've done personally. On a scale of one to ten, I'd give even my least favorite a 5, because you're with a horse.

I usually enjoy best things that are more physically and mentally demanding. I've enjoyed trails (and arena trail), endurance, jumping, dressage, gaming, reining, saddleseat, driving, and even english pleasure classes. 

I'd say my least favorite is western pleasure, because you have three gaits, they are slow, and it bores me. On a horse suited for it you just crawl along. On a horse not suited, it is futile to try. People enjoy the smooth ride. I think a smooth ride on a gaited horse moving faster is more fun.

Things I have not had the opportunity to try are cutting or working with cows, foxhunting, working equitation, and obstacle driving. All sound fun to me.


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

Western Pleasure is my least favorite discipline. The horses look so sad and depressed with their heads hanging down like that. And they do not travel, they 'mosey'. How boring ....come on, hurry up, get it over with.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I haven’t done much English riding, so I know nothing that direction. I personally get bored with slow events like Pleasure myself. I get a lot of training goes into it, and I’ve nothing against people who enjoy it, I just personally don’t want to do it. I don’t prefer watching it either.

I less prefer halter and showmanship. I’ve done it a little for all arounds, but I just don’t like it. Again, I think it’s great for other people, but for myself I just get bored and I don’t like the clothes.

I don’t think there is any horse sport I know well enough that I can take offense to it. Every competition I know of can be done poorly and can be done well. Any take a ton of work to be very successful in, and I doubt too many people are involved with horse activities that don’t enjoy horses. I am sure there are terrible methods to achieve any specific thing, but I am also pretty convinced they are not the norm. Any person who competes at a high level and does so with kindness to the horse is respected by me.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I'm an English pleasure/trail rider but I implement a lot of dressage basics in my riding.  I think it's very important, for any discipline to learn. It can be very helpful for any horse.

I am not really a fan of a lot of Western disciplines (reining, barrel racing, etc.).


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

All About Hope said:


> Maybe you should reword what you said. It's causing some confusion. I don't know what you mean by that statement either.


@*Lilacladder*
Please do not edit your post - it will have an effect the entire thread. If you choose to re-word what you said then please just quote your original post and then type what you were trying to say.

I personally understood what you were saying as being more directed at local level riders and not professionals and it is ok to have an opinion.


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## 289134 (Dec 3, 2020)

farmpony84 said:


> @*Lilacladder*
> Please do not edit your post - it will have an effect the entire thread. If you choose to re-word what you said then please just quote your original post and then type what you were trying to say.
> 
> I personally understood what you were saying as being more directed at local level riders and not professionals and it is ok to have an opinion.


 Thank you for the heads up, I have not edited any of my posts but I will make sure not to do so in the future so I do not mess up the flow of the thread.


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## Thundering Hooves (Dec 16, 2019)

I would DIE to try eventing it looks AMAZING

I hate Biglick If people still count that some do


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

To answer the OP's original question, one thing I usually cannot stand to watch is Western Pleasure. Most of the horses are forced slower than they are naturally talented for, and IMO, makes it look awful. There are a few horses that are talented and are able to go that slow and make it look nice and flowing and easy; but not the majority. And what frustrates me is that horses still win who are obviously not following the new judging guidelines. 

For me, dressage is second. (some) It's drives me crazy to see the horses behind the vertical and chin touching their chest. Not all do that, but a lot. The movement can be gorgeous and floaty and pretty to watch; but there are things about it I do not like.



AragoASB said:


> The OP must be very young. I don't have a least favorite discipline now that I have lived in the world. Who's eyes would not be moved to tears when seeing this?





Lilacladder said:


> If I had to pick disciplines I don't like I would generally say almost all the western disciplines: cutting, reining, *especially *barrel racing, and western pleasure. They just don't suit me, I'm not the kind of rider that finds those disciplines interesting though I do support my friends that are heavily involved in western disciplines.
> 
> The biggest turn offs for me is that I don't see a lot of owners in western disciplines actually working their horses properly or choosing horses that have the right conformation for longevity in those disciplines. By properly I mean muscle wastage, as in they focus too much on schooling and not enough on conditioning. This could just be something prevalent in my neck of the woods though. 🙃


Hmm, but if they are working on schooling ..... aren't you also conditioning the horse at the same time you are schooling them???

While conformation is a consideration, some horses do just fine with proper maintenance and vet care. There's a horse at the NFR right now that I personally think looks a little funny for conformation. But he clearly can do his job and quite effectively so, since he's at the NFR with his owner/rider.


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## 289134 (Dec 3, 2020)

beau159 said:


> Hmm, but if they are working on schooling ..... aren't you also conditioning the horse at the same time you are schooling them???
> 
> While conformation is a consideration, some horses do just fine with proper maintenance and vet care. There's a horse at the NFR right now that I personally think looks a little funny for conformation. But he clearly can do his job and quite effectively so, since he's at the NFR with his owner/rider.


While there are similarities and areas where schooling and conditioning overlap they aren't the same thing.

Think of a professional athlete like a football player. They only spend so much time on the field practicing football (schooling). The majority of the time they are in the gym working out (conditioning) bc playing football isn't enough for them to excel and develop the body condition they need to play.

Schooling teaches your horse muscle memory and mental discipline, whereas conditioning makes sure their entire body is developing in a balanced manner in order to perform the discipline they are asked to do.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I've never heard of just "schooling" your horse without also conditioning it. Nor would I know how anyone could do it. I don't barrel race, but only an idiot would expect to be even slightly competitive if they only rode the horse on barrel patterns. Or a roping horse who only exercised while roping.

I'm leery when folks talk about conditioning to develop the body in a balanced manner because what is "balanced"? A serious marathon runner doesn't try to bulk up his upper body. Pro football players are superb athletes but not built for swimming. Denny Emerson says the best baseline exercise for conditioning a horse is simply riding for miles at a brisk walk - which many entry level competitors will do by riding their horse, not just for sport, but out on trails.

I've never met anyone who only "schooled" their horse. I'm not even sure what that would mean.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Lilacladder said:


> While there are similarities and areas where schooling and conditioning overlap they aren't the same thing.
> 
> Think of a professional athlete like a football player. They only spend so much time on the field practicing football (schooling). The majority of the time they are in the gym working out (conditioning) bc playing football isn't enough for them to excel and develop the body condition they need to play.
> 
> Schooling teaches your horse muscle memory and mental discipline, whereas conditioning makes sure their entire body is developing in a balanced manner in order to perform the discipline they are asked to do.


Your football analogy does not really make sense when applied to a horse. 

And I think what you see in your neck of the woods is NOT what is generally accepted and done elsewhere.

For example, let's refer to barrel racing. A lot of professional trainers, when (for example) they are training a futurity horse, spend most of their time in the arena. It is a combination of working on the pattern and working on drills. And sometimes working in the arena but not necessarily with a barrel involved. You train the horse to carry their body correctly so that they are able to correctly get around the barrel. So if you are actively going around a barrel, you are also actively making sure the horse has it's body in the correct spot. You might walk away from the barrel and work on some body movement training, and then come back to the barrel again. But the whole time you are training the horse and conditioning their body to be able to make that turn correctly. 

Schooling very much does also condition the horse at the same time.

Use reining as the same example. Reiners definately do not ride outside of the arena (dangerous if they have sliders on back feet; too easy to slip on the grass if you try to do too much). You school the horse to do the individual maneuvars required in the pattern. You do NOT do the patterns at home. You don't want your horse to learn them b/c you don't want them to anticipate. So you work on the invididual parts. And then you go show. Again, schooling IS the conditioning!

Have you ever taken a reining lesson, or ridden with a reiner?
How about barrel racing?


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## 289134 (Dec 3, 2020)

beau159 said:


> Your football analogy does not really make sense when applied to a horse.
> 
> And I think what you see in your neck of the woods is NOT what is generally accepted and done elsewhere.
> 
> ...


Actually my football analogy does make sense when applied to a horse, you're just taking my general statement and are trying to make it specifically refer to one discipline. All I have been doing is making general comments about how horses are athletes, but ppl keep trying to make it about pro level barrel racing and reining. This whole back and forth started bc I originally stated exactly this: my opinion on what discipline I am least interested and why. The why is bc of WHAT I SEE IN MY LOCATION. I am very happy to hear that what I see daily is uncommon in other parts of the world, I genuinely mean that! 😊

I have already admitted that schooling and conditioning can overlap (but that isn't the case in all disciplines) so I don't know why you are trying to argue a point I have already agreed to. How is it possible that so many ppl on this forum can type but can't read. 🤣 Why do ppl think I'm specifically calling out or targeting their discipline/horse. Triggered much? 😂❄

I live in area where ALL ppl do is western disciplines. All my friends are successful reiners, cutters, are involved in drill teams, and barrel racing. My friends fly all over North America on their own dime, with their horses, to attend clinics that'll improve their reining, cutting and training skills. On top of all that my friends even have new cows shipped in regularly. These ideas of schooling, conditioning, and balance I've learned FROM them. 🤯


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## 289134 (Dec 3, 2020)

bsms said:


> I've never heard of just "schooling" your horse without also conditioning it. Nor would I know how anyone could do it. I don't barrel race, but only an idiot would expect to be even slightly competitive if they only rode the horse on barrel patterns. Or a roping horse who only exercised while roping.
> 
> I'm leery when folks talk about conditioning to develop the body in a balanced manner because what is "balanced"? A serious marathon runner doesn't try to bulk up his upper body. Pro football players are superb athletes but not built for swimming. Denny Emerson says the best baseline exercise for conditioning a horse is simply riding for miles at a brisk walk - which many entry level competitors will do by riding their horse, not just for sport, but out on trails.
> 
> I've never met anyone who only "schooled" their horse. I'm not even sure what that would mean.


So what you are describing in your first couple sentences is exactly what the standard practice is in my location among enthusiasts, amateurs, and some owners who take the time to professionally compete and show their horses (but never make it even on a local level).

So I recently bought a horse who for the last 10 years was a lesson horse. While being a lesson horse she was stalled 24/7 and was only taken out of her stall when the teen that was leasing her showed up 3x/week to do a 1 hour barrel lesson in an arena. She never got to do any riding outside of an arena, or any riding/work in general outside of these 1 hr, 3x/wk lessons. She is a beautiful horse but after buying her I have focused on building muscle bc she has absolutely no muscle on her topline or hindquarters, just bony spine, and she is a young horse (15yo). So in this situation running barrel patterns for 1 hr, 3x per week wasn't enough for this horse to have muscle. Now this horse is a 17HH Selle Francais mare. If she was a 13-15HH quarter horse maybe it would've been enough activity. We're talking different body types, different genetics, different needs.

And that's exactly what I am doing, walking her and doing hill work, I even own a walk ONLY treadmill that I train each of my horses to use. With how her topline looks I don't feel comfortable riding her yet and there's no point to have her fit for a saddle until she has muscle once again in her topline.

And as far as your athlete illustrations go its more about how the athlete conditions their body to their specific sport. But in every sport there is a skill/mental aspect (schooling) and a physical aspect (conditioning). I don't much about marathon running but as far as I know I would say that conditioning and schooling overlap 99% in that sport. Whereas in sports like football conditioning and schooling overlap less.

Please understand I am not knocking anyone who stalls their horse or does arena riding only. There are reasons for it and I know some horses who prefer to be stalled 24/7 or prefer to only do arena work.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Yes, I agree. I've also always differentiated between schooling and conditioning. As was mentioned, there are many things horses do to learn a discipline that do not get them very physically fit.

Let's say a horse was needing to learn how to do rollbacks and back up. You could school the horse for a half hour on these things without getting the horse fit for more than a few shorts sprints with breaks between. That is fine if that is all the horse will be used for, but he won't be cardio conditioned. His muscled and tendons won't have adapted for hill work or trotting for an hour.

There are many disciplines where horses can do extensive schooling without getting very fit. Arena trail is an example. Anything where a horse is mainly learning cues and responses.

I tend to have schooling days and conditioning days. One day the focus will be on learning a skill, another day the focus is on fitness.

I've heard that in WP some competitors do conditioning days where they lope horses for a long period of time. For endurance, some use exercise walkers in liu of rides to build conditioning. Those things do not teach the horse, they just add fitness.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Lilacladder said:


> I have already admitted that schooling and conditioning can overlap (but that isn't the case in all disciplines) so I don't know why you are trying to argue a point I have already agreed to. How is it possible that so many ppl on this forum can type but can't read. 🤣 Why do ppl think I'm specifically calling out or targeting their discipline/horse. Triggered much? 😂❄


Not arguing; but discussing why I disagree with your football analogy. There are many training methods out there, and more than one way to do things and be successful, even in the same discipline. 

I'm not "triggered". Just trying to educate. If you don't care to learn about what happens in places other than your location, then breeze on by the post and don't worry about it.

I picked reining and barrel racing as examples because they were two of the ones you mentioned, and two that I happen to know very much about.




Lilacladder said:


> So I recently bought a horse who for the last 10 years was a lesson horse. While being a lesson horse she was stalled 24/7 and was only taken out of her stall when the teen that was leasing her showed up 3x/week to do a 1 hour barrel lesson in an arena. She never got to do any riding outside of an arena, or any riding/work in general outside of these 1 hr, 3x/wk lessons. She is a beautiful horse but after buying her I have focused on building muscle bc she has absolutely no muscle on her topline or hindquarters, just bony spine, and she is a young horse (15yo). So in this situation running barrel patterns for 1 hr, 3x per week wasn't enough for this horse to have muscle.


I would say that only 3 hours outside of their stall per week would not be enough for any discipline or any horse. This situation (in my mind) does not appy to your discussion of schooling vs. conditioning. Because it's just plain POOR CARE of the horse in general. Of course the horse will be in poor fitness condition if they've done nothing but stand in a stall for 10 years.

I myself am a fan of 24/7 turnout. I feel it is healthiest for the horse. However, there are many healthy, well-conditioned, successful horses (in all disciplines) that primarily live in a stall. But I also guarantee they aren't stuck in the stall for 23 hours of the day. They are getting turnout time in some sort of large pen or run for part of the day, in addition to their riding time.

[/QUOTE]



gottatrot said:


> Let's say a horse was needing to learn how to do rollbacks and back up. You could school the horse for a half hour on these things without getting the horse fit for more than a few shorts sprints with breaks between. That is fine if that is all the horse will be used for, but he won't be cardio conditioned. His muscled and tendons won't have adapted for hill work or trotting for an hour.


Personally, I don't know anyone who would work on only rollbacks and backing the horse up for 30 minutes. And nothing else. Every day. Do you?

I know if I were to want to work on those two things, it would also involve lots of other things. Because you don't do "just a rolllback". You first make sure you can control of the shoulders, ribcage, hindquarters. I might practice that at a walk, trot, or lope. You also first make sure you have a horse soft in the bridle. I might be counter-bending. I can do that at any gait. I then may also loped a straight line to a stop and back up. Usually, you aren't truly "isolating" one specific maneuvar. Because you'd ignore all the basic training to get there ..... which is also going to condition your horse in other ways. 

You are right that a reining horse won't be adapted for hill work for trotting for an hour on the trail ..... but why would you need to incorporate it into your program? (as mentioned above, the hill work could actually be quite dangerous if the horse has sliders on the back feet and riding on grassy hills)

Now obviously if you are an endurance rider, you bet you need to be doing hill work and long trotting (and more!). But then you might also find yourself not doing any arena work. Because there isn't a need for it for the chosen discipline.

Just like an endurance horse is not conditioned to go through a jumping course.
Or a jumping horse is not conditioned to go ride 15 miles on the trail. 
Or a WP horse is not conditioned to sprint a 1/4 mile.
Or a racehorse is not conditioned to loped a collected slow reining circle. 
Etc etc.

Are we really talking about physical fitness .... or cross training?



gottatrot said:


> I've heard that in WP some competitors do conditioning days where they lope horses for a long period of time.


Even still, you will still be _schooling_ because you need to make sure your horse is traveling properly with their body in the correct position to score well for WP. So again, it's not "just conditioning". You are schooling at the same time. The last thing you want is for your horse to pick up bad habits at the lope because you let their body do whatever they wanted while just loping around for a long time.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

To me, cross training is using a horse in another discipline. For example, taking a dressage horse over jumps. 

Schooling is the same as training, and may or may not condition the horse. I might school a horse on half halts, or standing in a line up at a show, or stepping away from leg pressure.

Conditioning is getting a horse physically fit. It could be done under saddle, loose in an arena, on a hot walker or treadmill, etc. 

A horse could be conditioned without being schooled in anything in particular. A problem some people have is getting a horse fit without doing enough schooling concurrently, and ending up with a horse they can't handle.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Lilacladder said:


> Actually my football analogy does make sense when applied to a horse, you're just taking my general statement and are trying to make it specifically refer to one discipline. All I have been doing is making general comments about how horses are athletes, but ppl keep trying to make it about pro level barrel racing and reining. This whole back and forth started bc I originally stated exactly this: my opinion on what discipline I am least interested and why. The why is bc of WHAT I SEE IN MY LOCATION. I am very happy to hear that what I see daily is uncommon in other parts of the world, I genuinely mean that! 😊
> 
> I have already admitted that schooling and conditioning can overlap (but that isn't the case in all disciplines) so I don't know why you are trying to argue a point I have already agreed to. How is it possible that so many ppl on this forum can type but can't read. 🤣 Why do ppl think I'm specifically calling out or targeting their discipline/horse. Triggered much? 😂❄
> 
> I live in area where ALL ppl do is western disciplines. All my friends are successful reiners, cutters, are involved in drill teams, and barrel racing. My friends fly all over North America on their own dime, with their horses, to attend clinics that'll improve their reining, cutting and training skills. On top of all that my friends even have new cows shipped in regularly. These ideas of schooling, conditioning, and balance I've learned FROM them. 🤯


It could also be asked, why are there those that have such issue communicating and being understood in their attempts to communicate.

I seriously doubt there is any location where the discipline is restricted to that extent. Unless that would be one specific barn where the entire reason de etre is that specific discipline or set of disciplines.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Lilacladder said:


> So in this situation running barrel patterns for 1 hr, 3x per week wasn't enough for this horse to have muscle. Now this horse is a 17HH Selle Francais mare. If she was a 13-15HH quarter horse maybe it would've been enough activity.


What this describes is a trainer and owner who are not even remotely interested in performing well. It would be like asking a prisoner held in solitary confinement to run a marathon. There are undoubtedly stupid people who own horses, but I doubt their stupidity is tied to any specific sport.

The Selle Francais horse - I had to look it up - "_is a French sport horse, now recognized internationally as a top breed for show jumping and three-day eventing. Selection criteria for breeding stock focuses on their jumping abilities._" - Wiki. An odd pick for anyone serious about barrel racing. I've always wanted to try barrel racing with Bandit. But Bandit is built for endurance and I'm in my 60s and at best I'd only enter us in a local competition knowing we'd lose and lose bigly! Still, even this backyard rider knows 3 hours a week of racing a pattern and 165 hours a week in a stall would be a terrible idea both for the horse and for the sport. That doesn't change with breed. Or sport. Quarter horses can't do well in barrel racing or reining or anything else without any exercise. 



Lilacladder said:


> So what you are describing in your first couple sentences is exactly what the standard practice is in my location among enthusiasts, amateurs, and some owners who take the time to professionally compete and show their horses (but never make it even on a local level).


I find it hard to believe anyone "professionally competes" on a horse who only gets out of a stall 3 hours a week. Nor would I call anyone like that an enthusiast. If people where you live behave that way, then I pity all the horses where you live. Not just the ones in western sports.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Thread has run its course and is now closed.


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