# Pit Bulls kill Pony



## furbabymum (Dec 28, 2011)

I'm posting this as it happened in my town and I've found it interesting. One thing that has me completely /facepalming is that the dog owners have released a statement that the dogs didn't do it. The horse must have died, *"FROM THE COLD".*

CHEYENNE - Linda Clark was devastated Saturday afternoon when she and her husband returned from the grocery store to find two pit bulls attacking their Shetland pony, Spirit.

The couple was putting away their things when a neighbor came knocking at the door to report that Spirit was down and the dogs were tearing away at her.

Linda’s daughter-in-law, Teresa Clark, said Jeff Clark immediately ran outside with the first thing he could find, a pellet gun. He fired toward the dogs and they ran off, but Spirit was already dead.

Linda Clark, an avid horse rescuer, took Spirit in when she was just a year old as a rescue animal.

"These are her babies. She saves horses that are going to go to slaughter," Teresa Clark said. "She’s had this pony forever."

She added that the entire family is beside themselves over the incident because Spirit was locked in a pen and couldn't defend herself.

“That could have been my son,” Teresa Clark said. “That could have been someone else’s son or daughter.”

Laramie County Sheriff’s Department Capt. Rich Hillegas said deputies responded to the Clark home in the 6500 block of Buttercup Drive just before 1 p.m. Saturday.

He said Jeff Clark followed the two pit bulls into a field near Whitney Road in northeast Cheyenne and kept an eye on them until deputies could wrangle them.

Hillegas said the pony had several bite and tear marks on her body and that the dogs the deputies captured had blood on them. He said deputies also spoke with a person who said her two pit bulls had jumped a 6-foot fence and escaped from her yard.

Cheyenne Animal Shelter Executive Director Rick Collord said the two pit bulls are being held at the shelter. He said the dogs n a male and female n are young, likely around two years old, and were neutered and spayed.

He said Cheyenne Animal Control officers also responded to the Clarks’ house and saw the eight-year-old pony dead in her pen.

Collord said the officers ticketed the woman searching for her dogs under the public nuisance statute.

He said he wasn’t comfortable releasing the name of the person they think is the owner because she never identified the dogs before they were taken away and hasn’t yet come in to claim them.

“The owner has three days to come claim their dogs,” he said. “They know that they are here. They haven’t come at this point.”

Collord said he wasn’t sure whether the dogs would have to be quarantined, adding that he still had to check with the Wyoming Department of Health. All dogs that bite humans are required to be quarantined for 10 days under state law. The statute does not address animal-on-animal bites, however.

If the dogs don’t have to be quarantined and the owner doesn’t pick them up in the three-day timeline, Collord said they would attempt to find animal rescue groups willing to try to find them a home.

Collord said the liability of adopting out dogs that have a history of biting would be too much for the shelter to take on.

“That can be the way pit bulls are. They are known for being friendly to people, in most cases,” Collord said. “When they pack together, whether it be pit bulls or any other dogs, dogs that we think they would never do anything like that, it is a totally different situation when they get into a pack.

“They don’t react the same as what we would see in our homes a lot of time.”

He said it can be normal for animals that have packed together to want to take down another animal, adding that is usually unneutered male dogs that behave that way.

“Somebody can keep them from doing that, but if they get one chance to do it, they would do it again,” Collord said. “You are not going to train that out of them at this point in time.”

Pit Bulls attack, kill pony - Wyoming Tribune Eagle Online

Here is the link to where they said the horse is at fault for it's own death.
Owners fighting to keep pit bulls alive - Wyoming Tribune Eagle Online


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## Snizard93 (Oct 12, 2011)

It is a horrible thing to happen, and I am probably going to get ripped for this, but I love pit bulls. I think this is just going to be another one of those stories that turns even more people against them.

Please don't get me wrong, I feel terrible for the pony! My passion is horses. I also have a soft spot for these dogs. 

My thoughts are with both owners.


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

thats sad 

i bet if those two pits had more experienced owners this would have never happened...

but it truly is a shame the pony has passed and these two dogs will be pts and these owners will go off with a slap in the hand... 

know and understand the breed before you get one!! is all i can say


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## furbabymum (Dec 28, 2011)

I'm a dog lover first and a horse lover second. I've 4 amazing HUGE dogs. One thing I know is that this is a complete owner error. We have a great pyr that can jump our 6 foot fence. Does every chance he gets actually and goes to chase the neighbors cows. So what do we do knowing he can jump the fence, ONLY LET HIM OUT UNDER STRICT SUPERVISION! These owners have received a previous ticket for having their dogs out. There is no excuse for them to have been loose again. Then to put the blame on the pony owner. It just shows to me that the owners are completely incompetent and have basically killed their dogs. 



Snizard93 said:


> It is a horrible thing to happen, and I am probably going to get ripped for this, but I love pit bulls. I think this is just going to be another one of those stories that turns even more people against them.
> 
> Please don't get me wrong, I feel terrible for the pony! My passion is horses. I also have a soft spot for these dogs.
> 
> My thoughts are with both owners.


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

nah snizard, i like em too and they can be some of the sweetest, smartest dogs. imo it just depends on handling, just like horses theres good and bad and it depends on how you treat them and train em. i doubt those dogs have any sort of obedience training....

what i dont get is how the owners are fighting to keep them alive but arent claiming them....its not gonna stop the case it just makes them look worse that they wont even claim their own dogs.....


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## furbabymum (Dec 28, 2011)

This is my thought process exactly. The breed has a bad rep because the majority of people buying them are stupid and looking for a mean dog. They get them and make them mean.
I couldn't believe they went 2 days witout claiming the dogs and then tried to claim they didn't have enough notice. It was in the paper on monday and tuesday was the deadline. They didn't even try to get them until late tuesday. I would have been there monday with an apology on my lips and a prayer for my dogs life.



Roperchick said:


> nah snizard, i like em too and they can be some of the sweetest, smartest dogs. imo it just depends on handling, just like horses theres good and bad and it depends on how you treat them and train em. i doubt those dogs have any sort of obedience training....
> 
> what i dont get is how the owners are fighting to keep them alive but arent claiming them....its not gonna stop the case it just makes them look worse that they wont even claim their own dogs.....


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## Cruiser (Aug 28, 2011)

It could have been any breed of dog, it sadly was a heavily stereotyped breed. You always hear about a pit bull attack but when do you hear about with yorkies, labs and shi tzus attack someone.


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## cakemom (Jul 4, 2010)

The way is see this is three animals are going to die for the ignorance of one person.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pepperduck (Feb 14, 2008)

I think the dogs should be put down. It doesn't matter what breed it is, if dogs get loose and kill ponies, they need to be put down.


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## Tonipony (Oct 4, 2009)

I had Pit Bulls and American Staffs for over 17 years, I loved my dogs and showed them. But, if one of my dogs had got out and killed someone's pony, goat or cow, I would not have thought twice about putting that dog to sleep. These dogs have now had the thrill of the kill, they will do it again. Next time it may be a child. It would not matter if they were pit bulls or any other breed, the dogs did this for fun and they enjoyed it, it is a shame that the pony suffered for the ignorance of the dog owners.


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## furbabymum (Dec 28, 2011)

probably because shih tzus don't do a whole lot of damage. I'm sure the pony would have kicked it in the head and went on with life. 
Again, I think it's always this type of dog in the news because of the sort of people who normally buy them. Sad sad!


Cruiser said:


> It could have been any breed of dog, it sadly was a heavily stereotyped breed. You always hear about a pit bull attack but when do you hear about with yorkies, labs and shi tzus attack someone.


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## Casey02 (Sep 20, 2011)

I dont blame the breed of dog, i blame the owners. I work at a dog grooming place and i work with a lady who had 4 pits/ pit crosses all as well mannered as any other dog. I also bring my dobermann X in and he is a favorite there by everyone! We love the "bully" breeds, its the dumb people that we dont...


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## Casey02 (Sep 20, 2011)

one more thing... you never hear when a poodle goes crazy and bits a child, I no more physico smaller dogs than i do pits, they only pick on these types of breeds.


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## VT Trail Trotters (Jul 21, 2011)

I have my ice shanty on the lake for ice fishing and this pitpull comes over and im checking a tip up so im like 50 feet away and he goes and lifts his leg and pees on my **** ice shanty!!!! So i try to run at him, but its to late. And he bit my dad later who was on the ice too. So next time he comes near my ice shanty im pulling out my knife and huck it at him!


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## Tonipony (Oct 4, 2009)

Casey02 said:


> one more thing... you never hear when a poodle goes crazy and bits a child, I no more physico smaller dogs than i do pits, they only pick on these types of breeds.


I don't believe they just pick on this breed, this breed can do so much more damage in a short period of time then a lot of other breeds. I also worked for dog vets for many years and got bit or snapped at by more small dogs than the big ones, but the chance of a smaller dog killing anyone or another animal is not as likely. 

My last Staff lived to be 17 years old, she had never bit or showed any aggression, she loved the cats, chicken, kids and everyone. I had another dog raised the same way, his sire was #1 show dog in the nation and his dam was a Champion. The dog was dangerous and would have hurt someone if given a chance. It was not the way he was raised, it was just "in him" His temperment was not stable and I had him euthanized as it was the responsible thing to do. I believe that every animal is born with a certain temperment and it can be altered to a certain degree by either good or bad handling. I found out later that other dogs in his litter had temperment issues. 

When I worked at a guard dog training facility, my theory of dogs (and all animals) being born with certain traits and temperment was just reinforced by being bit by 3 different dogs. The 3 dogs had all been sold at 8 weeks to different families, all raised different and brought back to the kennel at around 8 or 9 months old. They were litter mates and they all bit me and bit hard because they wanted to attack the water hose, quick movement set them off and I was the one closet to them. 

All of this is Just My Opinion


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

I'm so glad this is a Pibble friendly forum...It is an extremely sad story for the pony, but it really is the owner of the dogs who is at fault. I have a Pitbull I rescued, she was beaten and tried to use as a fight dog and she's a lover not a fighter. So when Chloe wouldn't fight they beat her and didn't feed her...Now Chloe is a little over 3 years old, deaf from the beating, and with training, patience, and consistency she is the best dog I've ever had. She is great with all other animals, children, and people. She can be protective of me and will "guard" me when a stranger is around but she has never so much as nipped at a person..When I first got her, of course she was going to try to chase everything, what dog doesn't? It took probably 2 weeks for her to understand she wasn't allowed to chase other animals...Heck, her best friend is a 4lbs mini yorkie..and she will protect that yorkie.










It's a shame that the dogs are going to have to be PTS because of an idiot owner.


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## Cruiser (Aug 28, 2011)

Sorry what I meant it seems pit bull attacks are more widely published, in this case I believe the dogs should be put down, they didn't just chase the pony they know what it is like to gang up and kill another animal. 

If you saw my hand you wouldn't think shi tzus can't do much damage, one attacked me two or three times, one because I was holding at that time my very young puppy. I have probably close to 18 or more scars on one hand alone when I tried to hold him back from hurting my pup in my other arm. I ended up grabbing and throwing the dog, and it is very much alive to this day because he is little and it is "funny" when he growls and nips.


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## gaelgirl (Mar 3, 2011)

Slightly repetitive, but here goes:
I'm sad for the pony and her owners. It would be a terrible thing to have happen to your pet. I don't blame the dogs, I blame the owner all the way. Just a sad situation all around.

DrumRunner- she looks like a total sweetie. I am the dog walker for a pitty, and she is a lovebug too.


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

drumrunner i love your pitty  
i have a great dane pit mix who was also a fighter and when he was no longer able to fight they used him as a bait dog... when i got him he had a broken leg, and is also deaf and missing most of his teeth..

how mean is he :shock:

















ps if we can retrain fighting pits i have no sympathy for owners who can't even properly train dogs without all the baggage


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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

That's terrible! It's just like horses: if you are not adept enough to own a "hot" horse, then don't!


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Kait, that is AWFUL! I think those horrible owners should be beaten like they do those dogs..I can't stand that. I am something serious protective when it comes to my animals..



Laugh! She's a great girl and I love her to pieces..
This is Chloe's attitude about life..smiles and sunglasses.









lol but she can also be Classic Chloe









Mudpie, your last comment made me giggle..I guess I'm the lady with all of the crazy animals! A Pitbull and "hot" barrel horses, oh my! 


This is what I think when all the people tell me all barrel horses are idiots..Well you haven't seen mine when they aren't at a show..
Perfect example - Hickory, at a show he's one little firecracker..then there is this other side that Oh Lord is CALM! :wink:


Amber and Papa Hickory Doc - 2-8-2012 - YouTube


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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

I guess I don't know about pitbulls. I do, however, have 4 Dobermans, and I know all about the rap they get. xD They're really lovable, but I wouldn't recommend a Doberman bred like, say, Athena, to someone who wasn't an experienced dogperson. She's so high strung! But there are differently bred Dobies (like Ace and his daddy, Duke) who are totally laid back and chill and are the kind of dogs that let small children climb all over them. xD

I wonder if it didn't have something to do with the dogs being cooped up...


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## arrowsaway (Aug 31, 2011)

Tonipony said:


> I had Pit Bulls and American Staffs for over 17 years, I loved my dogs and showed them. But, if one of my dogs had got out and killed someone's pony, goat or cow, I would not have thought twice about putting that dog to sleep. These dogs have now had the thrill of the kill, they will do it again. Next time it may be a child. It would not matter if they were pit bulls or any other breed, the dogs did this for fun and they enjoyed it, it is a shame that the pony suffered for the ignorance of the dog owners.


I don't think it's fair to say that they "did this for fun and enjoyed it"... that's humanizing these dogs a little too much. They have no sense of right and wrong. The attack was based on pure instinct, and of course without proper training, there is no way to curb that instinct. We should be wise to remember that these dogs were originally bred to attack and kill BULLS... it is in the very fiber of their being to do what they did.
Not that the fate of the pony doesn't break my heart, it truly does. I'm just frustrated at how little people understand about the breed, and that's what leads to accidents like this. I wish I could snap my fingers and have every pit or bully breed owner be educated and responsible, but alas this world is far from perfect.

It's a sad day for animal lovers and advocates everywhere.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Maybe, or not socialized at all..Big dogs need to be "out", they aren't meant to be house dogs and just stay there all day..If a dog sees something strange of course they're going to go check it out, and the pony probably ran..Classic dog reaction is to chase the new toy..It just turned out badly for the pony.


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

I could say so meny things, but I wont.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

allowing dogs to run loose should be handled just as harshly as someone driving around shooting a gun in random directions. Its the same thing.


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

Joe4d said:


> allowing dogs to run loose should be handled just as harshly as someone driving around shooting a gun in random directions. Its the same thing.


I have this issue where I live, so meny people have loose dogs. Some are agressive. The worst is an healer. the one loose pit is really sweet. I feel bad for her though because she is ribby. She comes over when her owner leaves for work, She knows there is food and water at my house. I've talked to the owner about this, and I told them I was feeder her....they really don't care :-(


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

DrumRunner said:


> Maybe, or not socialized at all..Big dogs need to be "out", they aren't meant to be house dogs and just stay there all day..If a dog sees something strange of course they're going to go check it out, and the pony probably ran..Classic dog reaction is to chase the new toy..It just turned out badly for the pony.




Are you saying it is the pony's fault for running?


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Taffy Clayton said:


> Are you saying it is the pony's fault for running?


Lord no! Not by any means did I mean that in my post...That poor pony just reacted the way any pony would have..Fight or flight. If two dogs were running at him of course he was going to run.. The pony reacted on it's basic instincts just like the dogs did...The dog's owners are to blame..an animal is an animal regardless and will act on their instinct when feeling threatened, or as the dogs were in a "pack"..Scared pony runs + curious dogs chase = bad for all animals involved because of stupid owners.


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

its just like with any animal....humans even. its about how they are treated, how they are handled and trained. any animal is capable of violence if you dont take the time to teach them even basic obedience or you just neglect them how can you expect them to behave well or not do something bad if you havnt taught them that its bad....
i used to volunteer at the animal shelter and we would get tons of pits in because the breed is so known and people just want the "name brand' thing. they dont take into consideration the time and money it takes to take care of ANY animal. my bloodhound could have done the same thing and hes 150lbs. so hed be even deadlier. but i trained him right and hes perfectly behaved. 

my trainer has a rotty named Puddles, because hes the biggest coward ever. he spooks at everything but he is the SWEETEST dog and all he ever asks for is some food water and some loving.
you cant expect to just pour some food into their bowl and then ignore them and expect them to behave. they have no boundaries then.

you wouldnt let a young colt come and push you around or jerk the lead rope out of your hands or jump a fence, or attack you...you would train it. why wouldnt you do the same thing for any other animal?


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## farley (May 23, 2010)

That is really sad but I will not bash on the breed. Although they have a bad reputation I know any dog is capable of murder. My neighbors are experienced pit owners and have three beautiful people/ animal friendly dogs =) While my lab is a goat eater. Although we have him pretty much under control he will occasionally chase and bark at them, He learned this from my aunts dog who stayed with us for a month he was also a lab an sadly killed a goat and left puncture wounds in the neck of another who luckily recovered.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

arrowsaway said:


> They have no sense of right and wrong. The attack was based on pure instinct, and of course without proper training, there is no way to curb that instinct. We should be wise to remember that these dogs were originally bred to attack and kill BULLS... it is in the very fiber of their being to do what they did.
> Not that the fate of the pony doesn't break my heart, it truly does. I'm just frustrated at how little people understand about the breed, and that's what leads to accidents like this. I wish I could snap my fingers and have every pit or bully breed owner be educated and responsible, but alas this world is far from perfect.
> 
> It's a sad day for animal lovers and advocates everywhere.


Sorry, but I just can't let that stand. Pit Bulls were not bred to attack and kill bulls - they were bred with the tools to do so. Those are two different things. It is neither "in their fiber of their being" nor is it "instinct". They have to be trained to do whatever job is asked of them - just as any dog or any horse or any animal that is asked to do something beyond its natural instincts. 

I fail to see how people can believe that stuff. Do you know how long it takes for a behavior to become an instinct? Try thousands of years - not hundreds.

Pits are the "bad dog du jour", just as German Shepherds were when I was a kid, then Dobies in the 70's and 80's, then Rotties, and now Pits. People are just as naive, to use the least offensive word I can think of, today as they were in the 50's and 60's when German Shepherds were the evil demons.

Yes, Pits are dangerous because they have the tools to be dangerous - as do many animals. But they are not born with some evil instinct to kill bulls or ponies...or people...


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I have an aggressive pit mix who would have done the same thing given the chance. She was a fighting dog too, and I imagine she was a 'good' one, as she will go for the throat of an unknown dog. 

However she is wonderful with my family, she lays for hours and grooms my cats. But there's no amount of training that is going to get her over the issue, she just simply cannot be allowed access to people or animals she doesn't know. So she is leashed whenever she is out. 

Sadly this means that she gets walked very infrequently, as she is at my side on a leash but every other moron allows their mutt to run free without a leash, despite the leash laws.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Faceman knows..His dog is absolutely vicious!! The pictures I've seen are terrifying..Laugh, actually I quite like seeing pictures of his cute self.


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## Casey02 (Sep 20, 2011)

tonipony- i think any dog can have agression issues if they are not trained right.. im just sick of hearing about all the bully breeds getting the rap. Im sick of people Buying them because they "look mean" and then not knowing how to train a dog let alone handle them. Yes given a chance a dog will get away with something so will a horse this is why they need to be properly trained.


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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

DrumRunner said:


> Lord no! Not by any means did I mean that in my post...That poor pony just reacted the way any pony would have..Fight or flight. If two dogs were running at him of course he was going to run.. The pony reacted on it's basic instincts just like the dogs did...The dog's owners are to blame..an animal is an animal regardless and will act on their instinct when feeling threatened, or as the dogs were in a "pack"..Scared pony runs + curious dogs chase = bad for all animals involved because of stupid owners.


I agree. Some dogs just have a really high prey drive. Run = Chase. My Doberman Athena will run in to a bush and come back with a quail or gopher. They absolutely love the chase. But, on the other hand, she _really_ wants to chase my cat, Sixtoes. But Sixtoes doesn't run. He's a smart kitty and will rub on her legs, purring, and will roll over and purr and purr... xD She _really_ wants to chase something, but she won't, because he doesn't run. My mastiff even got a hare once! It's a predator thing, and nothing's gonna change that.

Undersocialization and them being cooped up was probably a factor here.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Okay, off topic but I HAVE to ask..Why is your cat names Sixtoes?


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## Casey02 (Sep 20, 2011)

probably has six toes lol!!! iv seen some cats like that!!


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

It's just a shame the pony's owners couldn't have caught the dogs in the act with a real gun. It would have been a justified kill. The problem of what to do with the dogs- solved.

I am not a gun person. I have never fired anything more than a pellet gun. But you can bet that if some dogs were attacking my horses I would grab my Dad or anyone else I could who was armed to shoot those dogs. I would defend my horses to the death of anything attacking them. And it would be justified. 

I don't dislike dogs. I just like horses more. 

And if someone's dog threatens your livestock I believe the law is on the side of the livestock owner. That is what I have always been told anyway. If someone else's dogs come onto YOUR property and attacks YOUR livestock and you kill the dogs, you are in the right.

Besides that, doesn't anyone feel bad for the pony? What a terrifying way for a horse to die. Their worst nightmare in fact.


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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

DrumRunner said:


> Okay, off topic but I HAVE to ask..Why is your cat names Sixtoes?


Because he has six toes xD Original, I know. But he's a sweet guy and he likes his name! 

He's polydactyl


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

That is strange..


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

mudpie said:


> Undersocialization and them being cooped up was probably a factor here.


Right - but what is the alternative if you have a dog that is known to be aggressive? Even muzzled, my dog gets herself in such a frenzy that the muzzle comes off. 
I am yet to meet a person who is willing to help socialize my dog with their pup - who in their right mind would do that. 

My aggressive dog lives with 3 cats that she adores, and another dog. It took a long time of full supervision, muzzles, leashes in the house for her to accept our pup. There's no way I could do that with anyone elses dog. 

There is little alternative when you have a truly aggressive dog other than to coop them up and undersocialize them.


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## Casey02 (Sep 20, 2011)

when you coop them up and undersocialize them you are adding to the problem. If they truely have that much agression you need to get them out side for a workout to drain them. If you can trust them off a least then, take them on a bike or roller blades, heck i take mine (i hold the leash) on the golf cart and let him run


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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

I don't believe that puppies are generally "aggressive." Okay, I take that back – wait, no I don't. xD Athena was a spaz maniac puppy and was a tazmanian devil who destroyed everything and everyone in her path. But we got her through it, socialized her to the point where she's the sweetest girlie around, and now she's just an awesome dog. Undersocialization stems from the way the puppy was raised, which, once again, falls solely on the shoulders of the owner.

Athena can be dog aggressive, because she was attacked by a dog when she was a puppy, but she keeps it under control because we ask her to. She's not a dog you could coop up in the back yard... she revels in shutzhund, trail rides, playing with her doggy friends, and running about. When we can't get her out and about, she has five acres of fenced off dog yard that she runs in filled with toys and friends and she can definitely handle that.

It comes down to the questions: Can I handle a high strung dog? Do I have the facilities and available space to do so? Do I have a back up plan if something goes wrong and I can't be there with the dog?

Because, like Mudpie, she's an animal that needs a job, and can't mentally handle sitting around. They go stark raving mad! They need attention, boundaries, and a job!


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## SunnyK01 (Mar 15, 2010)

I don't post here often, but I can't stay away from a pittie discussion. My own amazing pittie was rescued as a stray in downtown Detroit. She has been my constant companion for the past 3.5 years. I know without a doubt that my dog would NEVER do something like this. Why? Because she would never have the chance. Neither would her pit/lab housemate or her Jack Russell housemate.
I am so fed up with irresponsible dog owners in general, but especially pit bull owners. My motto with my dogs is "I will never set them up for failure" This means 2 dogs are never left loose in the house together when I'm not home - too many things could happen which may cause my normally in love with each other dogs to start fighting. My dog is never, and will never be, free roaming. The article states that these particular dogs have been cited for being loose before - there is NO excuse to not have your animals properly contained. Perhaps once, maybe, could be excused; you didn't know your new dog was a digger or a jumper. But more than once? Just irresponsible dog owners. My dogs also get regular exercise. I take them running and/or walking and school manners EVERY DAY. ANother motto in my canine family; "a tired dog is a good dog" I may have stolen that one from Cesar Millan 
People need to realize that many dogs, especially those who come from a strong muscular breed that may be predisposed to aggression, need to be monitored and set up to succeed. Most people shouldn't own 2 (especially same sex) pitties because most people aren't willing to take the time to a) exercise them properly b) train them properly c) socialize them properly and d) study the dynamics of owning multiple dogs. 

I am so tired of having to defend my dog, and her breed in general, to people whose only experience with pit bulls is an experience like the one in this story.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Casey02 said:


> when you coop them up and undersocialize them you are adding to the problem. If they truely have that much agression you need to get them out side for a workout to drain them. If you can trust them off a least then, take them on a bike or roller blades, heck i take mine (i hold the leash) on the golf cart and let him run


I don't have land of my own. She runs whenever it is raining and there are no other dog walkers out. 
I can absolutely promise you though, that she would keep attacking until she dropped no matter how tired she was. She would not stop until she could no longer continue. It's not possible to exhaust a dog that much, nor is it fair.


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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

DrumRunner said:


> That is strange..


Hee 

I don't have any pictures of him, but he's in this video I made for my media 2 class...

Animal Adoption PSA (30 sec) on Vimeo

He's the cat (quite obviously xD)


ETA: And I don't actually like the ASPCA that much, but he told me I had to be "advertising" something, I couldn't just say "Adopt today"


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

SunnyK01 said:


> I don't post here often, but I can't stay away from a pittie discussion. My own amazing pittie was rescued as a stray in downtown Detroit. She has been my constant companion for the past 3.5 years. I know without a doubt that my dog would NEVER do something like this. Why? Because she would never have the chance. Neither would her pit/lab housemate or her Jack Russell housemate.
> I am so fed up with irresponsible dog owners in general, but especially pit bull owners. My motto with my dogs is "I will never set them up for failure" This means 2 dogs are never left loose in the house together when I'm not home - too many things could happen which may cause my normally in love with each other dogs to start fighting. My dog is never, and will never be, free roaming. The article states that these particular dogs have been cited for being loose before - there is NO excuse to not have your animals properly contained. Perhaps once, maybe, could be excused; you didn't know your new dog was a digger or a jumper. But more than once? Just irresponsible dog owners. My dogs also get regular exercise. I take them running and/or walking and school manners EVERY DAY. ANother motto in my canine family; "a tired dog is a good dog" I may have stolen that one from Cesar Millan
> People need to realize that many dogs, especially those who come from a strong muscular breed that may be predisposed to aggression, need to be monitored and set up to succeed. Most people shouldn't own 2 (especially same sex) pitties because most people aren't willing to take the time to a) exercise them properly b) train them properly c) socialize them properly and d) study the dynamics of owning multiple dogs.
> 
> ...


Amen. Any dog can go wacko, as can any animal or any person, but 99% of the time the fault is actually the owner. My pit wouldn't hurt a flea - other than a rodent or rabbit - but I have enough common sense to not even give him the opportunity. The only time he is off the leash out of the house is on walks through the woods with me on my own property. Honestly, the only problem I have with mine is trying to keep him away from little kids. For some reason, Pits and little kids are like magnets - it's freaking impossible to keep them apart...it's weird...


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## SunnyK01 (Mar 15, 2010)

Faceman said:


> Honestly, the only problem I have with mine is trying to keep him away from little kids. For some reason, Pits and little kids are like magnets - it's freaking impossible to keep them apart..


Amen to that! And all the children always want the dogs to "give kisses" which is something I try to strongly discourage. I am not a fan of dogs licking my face


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## nuisance (Sep 8, 2011)

I found this pic on line, and thought it fitting, for most any case. 
I'm sorry for this poor pony, no matter how it died. No animal deserves to die in that manner. 
We have a 14month old pit bull, he loves to play with my horse, they chase each other all the time, but he is never with her, without me there. We have to start blaming the owners, not the breed!


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Boy there sure are some sweet face on those vicious killers!! :wink:


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## caseymyhorserocks (Apr 5, 2010)

Thats to bad .. Best wishes for both owners.


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## Snizard93 (Oct 12, 2011)

There have been Pit Bulls in my family before, and at the moment I have a staff. They were the friendliest dog I ever met. That's why I hate it when the breeds are blamed. It's ridiculous.


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## Alfie92 (Nov 8, 2011)

This is awfull!! I feel soo sorry for this little pony! Pit bulls can be lovely dogs its just some owners who make them the way they are and thats why people get the wrong idea about these dogs. Any dog can be nasty if you dont treat them properly! Because they are big dogs some owners like them to be agressive so they look cool. Which is pathetic. These two dogs should definitly be but down. even if it was the owners fault. They are a risk to people and animals.


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## ElaineLighten (Jan 1, 2012)

I hate the generalization of pitbulls. Don't get me wrong, I feel terribly for the owners and their pony, but it isn't the breed of the dog that should be penalized here.


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## ElaineLighten (Jan 1, 2012)

Snizard93 said:


> There have been Pit Bulls in my family before, and at the moment I have a staff. They were the friendliest dog I ever met. That's why I hate it when the breeds are blamed. It's ridiculous.


But I thought pitbulls are an illegal breed in the uk?


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## Snizard93 (Oct 12, 2011)

ElaineLighten said:


> But I thought pitbulls are an illegal breed in the uk?


My Grandmother had the dog registered, chipped etc. followed all the procedures to have him legal.


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## Alfie92 (Nov 8, 2011)

You are allowed to have them in the uk but they have to be registerd. If they are not registerd it will be taken off you and taken to a dogs home and u have to go to court and try and make the court believe you are capable of looking after the animal and you will then have to have it registerd. If you do not do this the dog will be put down.


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

what about in canada??? i was recently there with the pittie rescue i work with to pick up some dogs... and all the pits had to wear muzzles and all the aggressive labs and collies didn't..

and all the regular pittie owners had to have muzzles on the pitties if they were outside... whether in yard or on leash being walked..

why is that?? (serious question...no pun intended)


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## SmallTownGypsy (Dec 17, 2011)

I have a lovely girl named Vegas who is 1/4 beagle, 1/4 aussie shepherd, and 1/2 pit. She is lovely and sweet and loves everyone. 
I have owned two aggressive dogs in my life time.
The first was an Aussie Shepherd (supposedly). He grew very tall and hit 90lbs at his heaviest. Not like an aussie I've seen before or since. We were neurotic about keeping him contained and good owners. He did get out once and my POA ran from him so he chased her. I was terrified, but after she landed a kick on his side, he came back, past me (holding pepperoni, his favorite treat), through the gate, past my husband, and was about to go inside until I stopped him to check him over. He had a dusty hoof print on his black coat, but nothing was broken. He went in a laid down and I believe pouted. Years later, after a divorce and when I was moving to be closer to work, a behavioralist told me that without me his only use would be as a junkyard dog and maybe not even that. He was neurotic about protecting me so without me, he might just shut down. The place I was moving to was in the country, but there were still kids near by and loose dogs in the area. I didn't have a fence. I made the very hard decision to have him put down at that point. I still cry every time I think of it and I hate myself for it, but it was either have him suffer or put myself in a position where someone would likely get hurt. I couldn't do either of those things.
The other LOVED people. Her name was Che Carine (Italian for "how cute!") and couldn't get enough of people. We were told she was a boxer mix, but that was incorrect. She was a pit mix and she was dog aggressive, at least towards my other pit mix. As a pup, she would growl and carry on at Vegas, but would always roll over and submit. I maybe should have seen signs, but I was blinded. Then the scraps started happening. Little fights where as soon as we would yell they would break it up. Until the night, they didn't. We did everything we could think of. At one point (my husband and I both swear this) it looked like my Vegas's skin was being peeled off of her. I was freaking out and my husband was hitting Che in the nose trying to get her to let go. Blood was being splattered across my kitchen. Finally, he grabbed Che and I grabbed Vegas and we pulled every time they let go until we got them apart. Surprisingly, even though we both thought we saw her skin being pulled off her, Vegas only had two puncture marks. Che lost the tip of one of her ears. We found her a new home where she was an only dog and became a best friend for a little boy.
It's all about the owners! If something would have happened to my horse or my Aussie or Vegas or Che. I would NEVER have blamed any of the animals. It would have been my fault plain and simple. I do blame myself actually. I should have done better with Zona (the Aussie) as a puppy. I should have understood the signs I was seeing from Che. I was just blinded because Che was by far the most cuddly dog I have ever known. Shame on me! And shame on the owner of these pits for being a dumbass and a horrible person for not even claiming her own dogs!


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## furbabymum (Dec 28, 2011)

I have to disagree. Having owned 5 different breeds in the last 4 years I can say from my experience that they know what they were bred for. My viszla, never being trained to do anything but love, is an avid and incredible hunter. That is what he was bred for. Our weim is the same though less good at it. Our great pyr was bred to gaurd and that dog is **** good at it. Never being trained to do anything but sit at home that dog gaurds everything. The house, the baby, the other dogs. He's incredible. The one I will say is worthless is our St. B. Not really any avalanches for him to be finding people in so he sits around and just loves. 
I believe in instincts and dogs being bred for and knowing their purpose. 


Faceman said:


> Sorry, but I just can't let that stand. Pit Bulls were not bred to attack and kill bulls - they were bred with the tools to do so. Those are two different things. It is neither "in their fiber of their being" nor is it "instinct". They have to be trained to do whatever job is asked of them - just as any dog or any horse or any animal that is asked to do something beyond its natural instincts.
> 
> I fail to see how people can believe that stuff. Do you know how long it takes for a behavior to become an instinct? Try thousands of years - not hundreds.
> 
> ...


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## furbabymum (Dec 28, 2011)

We had a Che. I don't blame you for being blind to it. We had 2 great pyr awhile back. The youngest one and our St. were the best of friends until one day the pyr sprained his leg playing with the St. From that day on he HATED the St. We did everything we could think of for months and months. After I had the baby and was knocked over because the Pyr was chasing the St we had to rehome him. The people who have him now think he's perfect. He just hated our St and that was that.


SmallTownGypsy said:


> I have a lovely girl named Vegas who is 1/4 beagle, 1/4 aussie shepherd, and 1/2 pit. She is lovely and sweet and loves everyone.
> I have owned two aggressive dogs in my life time.
> The first was an Aussie Shepherd (supposedly). He grew very tall and hit 90lbs at his heaviest. Not like an aussie I've seen before or since. We were neurotic about keeping him contained and good owners. He did get out once and my POA ran from him so he chased her. I was terrified, but after she landed a kick on his side, he came back, past me (holding pepperoni, his favorite treat), through the gate, past my husband, and was about to go inside until I stopped him to check him over. He had a dusty hoof print on his black coat, but nothing was broken. He went in a laid down and I believe pouted. Years later, after a divorce and when I was moving to be closer to work, a behavioralist told me that without me his only use would be as a junkyard dog and maybe not even that. He was neurotic about protecting me so without me, he might just shut down. The place I was moving to was in the country, but there were still kids near by and loose dogs in the area. I didn't have a fence. I made the very hard decision to have him put down at that point. I still cry every time I think of it and I hate myself for it, but it was either have him suffer or put myself in a position where someone would likely get hurt. I couldn't do either of those things.
> The other LOVED people. Her name was Che Carine (Italian for "how cute!") and couldn't get enough of people. We were told she was a boxer mix, but that was incorrect. She was a pit mix and she was dog aggressive, at least towards my other pit mix. As a pup, she would growl and carry on at Vegas, but would always roll over and submit. I maybe should have seen signs, but I was blinded. Then the scraps started happening. Little fights where as soon as we would yell they would break it up. Until the night, they didn't. We did everything we could think of. At one point (my husband and I both swear this) it looked like my Vegas's skin was being peeled off of her. I was freaking out and my husband was hitting Che in the nose trying to get her to let go. Blood was being splattered across my kitchen. Finally, he grabbed Che and I grabbed Vegas and we pulled every time they let go until we got them apart. Surprisingly, even though we both thought we saw her skin being pulled off her, Vegas only had two puncture marks. Che lost the tip of one of her ears. We found her a new home where she was an only dog and became a best friend for a little boy.
> It's all about the owners! If something would have happened to my horse or my Aussie or Vegas or Che. I would NEVER have blamed any of the animals. It would have been my fault plain and simple. I do blame myself actually. I should have done better with Zona (the Aussie) as a puppy. I should have understood the signs I was seeing from Che. I was just blinded because Che was by far the most cuddly dog I have ever known. Shame on me! And shame on the owner of these pits for being a dumbass and a horrible person for not even claiming her own dogs!


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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

furbabymum said:


> I have to disagree. Having owned 5 different breeds in the last 4 years I can say from my experience that they know what they were bred for. My viszla, never being trained to do anything but love, is an avid and incredible hunter. That is what he was bred for. Our weim is the same though less good at it. Our great pyr was bred to gaurd and that dog is **** good at it. Never being trained to do anything but sit at home that dog gaurds everything. The house, the baby, the other dogs. He's incredible. The one I will say is worthless is our St. B. Not really any avalanches for him to be finding people in so he sits around and just loves.
> I believe in instincts and dogs being bred for and knowing their purpose.


This goes back to the natural prey drive that _all_ dogs have. Not just pit bulls, not just German shepherds, not just Dobermans – collies and labs and terriers and mastiffs and saint bernards all other dogs (yes, even Chihuahuas). We see it when the dogs have the chance to "showcase" it and have the opportunity to use the prey drive. Fetch? It plays on prey drive. Some dogs are bred with (like horses) "hotter" dispositions, but the prey drive is there in every last one of them.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

mudpie said:


> This goes back to the natural prey drive that _all_ dogs have. Not just pit bulls, not just German shepherds, not just Dobermans – collies and labs and terriers and mastiffs and saint bernards all other dogs (yes, even Chihuahuas). We see it when the dogs have the chance to "showcase" it and have the opportunity to use the prey drive. Fetch? It plays on prey drive. Some dogs are bred with (like horses) "hotter" dispositions, but the prey drive is there in every last one of them.


True, however there is no specific instinct "bred into" pits to kill bulls, any more than there is an instinct bred into dachshunds to kill badgers or a specific instinct bred into Rhodesian Ridgebacks to kill lions. In the short time modern breeds have been around, there has only been sufficient time to selectively breed to amplify existing instincts - certainly not to develop new ones. The rest is a matter of training.

This is primarily in response to furbabymum's post...


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## AQHSam (Nov 23, 2011)

furbabymum said:


> I have to disagree. Having owned 5 different breeds in the last 4 years I can say from my experience that they know what they were bred for. My viszla, never being trained to do anything but love, is an avid and incredible hunter. That is what he was bred for. Our weim is the same though less good at it. Our great pyr was bred to gaurd and that dog is **** good at it. Never being trained to do anything but sit at home that dog gaurds everything. The house, the baby, the other dogs. He's incredible. The one I will say is worthless is our St. B. Not really any avalanches for him to be finding people in so he sits around and just loves.
> I believe in instincts and dogs being bred for and knowing their purpose.


I concur. I had an English Springer Spaniel bred from 30 year distinct show lines that never worked a field.

Yet that dog could quarter a field and would turn himself inside out in anticipation at the sight of a shotgun.

I conducted home obedience classes and if I had a nickel for every sheltie that came in for training because it was nipping at the kids heels, I would retire rich.

If there was any truth to the statement that dogs don't retain bred instincts, then the pool of functional herding, sporting, and hounds breeds would be extinct.


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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

Faceman said:


> True, however there is no specific instinct "bred into" pits to kill bulls, any more than there is an instinct bred into dachshunds to kill badgers or a specific instinct bred into Rhodesian Ridgebacks to kill lions. In the short time modern breeds have been around, there has only been sufficient time to selectively breed to amplify existing instincts - certainly not to develop new ones. The rest is a matter of training.
> 
> This is primarily in response to furbabymum's post...


That's what I'm saying! Just because a dog was used for a purpose at one point, that doesn't mean that that's what they're born to do. They may be conformationally made for that job, but that animal's purpose in life is not to do that job – and they don't "know" that that's what they were bred to do. They know that job that they were trained and raised to do.


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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

AQHSam said:


> I concur. I had an English Springer Spaniel bred from 30 year distinct show lines that never worked a field.
> 
> Yet that dog could quarter a field and would turn himself inside out in anticipation at the sight of a shotgun.
> 
> ...


Once again, prime examples of _prey drive_.


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## SmallTownGypsy (Dec 17, 2011)

Herding dogs are notorious for nipping at heels. I believe that is a bred instinct. My Aussie constantly "herded" my Cocker Spaniel around and kept her in line if he thought she was getting to crazy. It didn't help that she looked like a little sheep. 
He was aggressive and would never come at a person face on, but if he could get behind you or if you turned your back to him, he would always go for the legs. He was big enough and strong enough that he could take down a person head on, but he wouldn't.


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## AQHSam (Nov 23, 2011)

What a lot of posters (pro-pittie) are failing to recognize is a general rule of thumb about dog breeds.

Ignore the generalizations, there are always outliers, in order to understand the message.

I'll start with the Sporting breed. This breed was developed to work WITH man as a 50/50 partner. Sit for hours in a damp blind. Cover miles of field within gun range seeking birds. They are also one of the most well known COMPANION dogs outside of the toy breeds. These are the dogs that man treated as equal, AS FAMILY. They are almost ALWAYS house dogs. They are described using terms such as eager to please. Friendly. Outgoing. Trusting (of others).

I swear, having known many of these breeds, you could beat them with a 2x4 and they would still wag their tail when you returned to the room.

Herding and Hound dogs. Are they loveable? Hell yes. But, they were bred to work FOR man. Not with. Big difference. Hound dogs hunt. But, some hunt in packs. Almost all hunt AWAY from man. Remember, sporting breeds either wait until AFTER the bird is shot and then leave man to go get it and return with it, or they hunt in front of man but always within appropriate gun distance. A good field dog is useless if they are so far ahead the hunter can get a shot. A good field dog also WAITS until man permits it to scare or rouse the bird. Not hound dogs. They mostly chase down prey or corner it (or tree it). While they are out running up and down ahead of man, they are thinking on their own.

Herding dogs are working for man. They have a job (herd those sheep) and while man may give the dogs cues and signals, the dog is working as an independent. Think two men trying to accomplish the same task

Terriers. Are they loveable? Heck YES! But, most terriers are vermin hunters. They were bred to chase prey into holes and to fight fearlessly. In dog shows, the judge will ask handlers to "spar" the Fox terriers so the judge can witness the dog's instincts for this activity.

I can't think of a single breed of dog that won't wag its tail, have sparkly eyes, or lick its owner's hand with love. It is what separates a dog from a plant. They have emotions. They have needs. They feel lonliness. Hunger, Affection. They can be sad. They can be happy. If they didn't feel or demonstrate these behaviors, we would call them a plant.

Regardless of breeding, dogs and humans have one shared instinct. Fight or Flight. We talk about this constantly in this forum about horses. The instinct to flight in horses and how you have to train around that instinct.

Humans are fight or flight animals. Some of us are more apt to fight and I mean it literally. Think about elementary school children. Some kids are just wired to naturally throw a punch when confronted with anger or fear. Some kids will run as soon as they feel danger coming their way. Some kids you can beat within an inch of their life and the next day if you show them affection they will sop it up.

Dogs are the same way. Some will fight (bite / attack) when provoked. Some will run and hide. Some will just accept the beating if they were unable to run and hide.

Using the 80/20 rule of prediction, you can accurately predict the expected behavior of 80 percent (at least) of each breed, when confronted or fearful.

So, now think about the GSDs, Dobies, Pitties, Rotties. Read their original breeding intent. None of these dogs were bred to flee in danger. They were bred to stand their ground. Then add the element that almost all these breeds were also bred to be independent thinkers.

I think a good analogy would be to consider the dogs without human interaction and training. 

Think about each breed, even your TOY breeds in this excercise.

Take 10 from each breed and drop on a large island. No humans. Just water, vegetation and your typical non-pet, such as cows, goats, bunnies, sheep, rats, mice, racoons. No human intervention. Just dog packs.

Now, let's play a game called, which pack is left standing? If you had to put money on a single breed surviving, which do you choose? The yorkie because one day you were bit by a yorkie and needed two stitches?

The golden retriever?
Corgie?

Personally, I'm am putting my money on the Pittbull. Even over the largest dog breed, the Irish Wolfhound. The pitbull is wired to survive against the odds. They are fearless. They are bred to withstand and work past personal pain and injury. The were bred to attack not defend (huge difference between the two actions). 

In a home, the more "feral" the dog the more intune it will be to its instincts. Control is not always the solution. To much control or harsh discipline will cause issues. 

As a dog handler, do I believe they can be good pets in the appropriate home? Yes. Heck Yes.

There is no mystery or hocus pocus to understanding dog breeds and predicting future behavior. Your prediction does go up or down based on the level of quality breeding and imprinting. But, even those unknowns can create a prediction.


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## furbabymum (Dec 28, 2011)

I guess it could be said that certain breeds are bred with the predisposition for things and as humans we use that to our advantage. I don't believe a job is necessarily trained into a dog either. They're just predisposed to it. I'll use our Great Pyr as an example again. I know many many farmers that buy the pup at 12 weeks old, go put it with the sheep and it never sees a human until it's time to round up the sheep. It instinctively gaurds them. It could go off and leave the sheep to their own devices. There is no reason for it to protect the sheep by killing coyotes. Arguably coyotes should be what the dog is drawn to, an animal it can pack up with.
Anyway, am I making sense? I doubt I am so I probably didn't. 


Faceman said:


> True, however there is no specific instinct "bred into" pits to kill bulls, any more than there is an instinct bred into dachshunds to kill badgers or a specific instinct bred into Rhodesian Ridgebacks to kill lions. In the short time modern breeds have been around, there has only been sufficient time to selectively breed to amplify existing instincts - certainly not to develop new ones. The rest is a matter of training.
> 
> This is primarily in response to furbabymum's post...


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## SmallTownGypsy (Dec 17, 2011)

Talking about yorkies and pits reminded me of a story my friend told me. When she was little, she lived in a neighborhood where everyone had pits or dobies. All the dogs were friendly and all got along. The neighbors would all go to one house, bring the kids and the dogs and send 'em into the backyard to play. Well, new people moved into the neighborhood and they were invited over and told to bring their dog b/c everyone does. Well, their dog was a little bitty yorkie. The kids went out to play in the yard where the pits and dobies were and the yorkie came with them. It saw the big dogs and froze on the porch. One of the largest pits saw the little yorkie and went running up to greet it. The closer he got the more the yorkie started shaking. Finally on the porch, the pit looked down on the yorkie and gave a soft little "woof." The yorkie fell over, flat on his side! They thought it was dead. They yelled for the parents. Turns out the yorkie has always had anxiety problems and that was just what it did when it got too freaked out. 
Just felt like throwing that little anecdote out there.


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## AQHSam (Nov 23, 2011)

For those that don't understand the original bred intent of the bull terrier:


*A Look Back*


*Until the early 19th century, the Bulldog used for bullbaiting in England* was more active and longer-legged than the breed as we know it today. It is thought that the cross of this older Bulldog and a game terrier breed created the Staffordshire Terrier. *Originally called the Bull-and-Terrier Dog, Half and Half or Pit Dog, it became known as the Staffordshire Bull Terrier in England*. When accepted for AKC registration in 1936, the name changed to American Staffordshire Terrier to reflect the heavier American type and to distinguish them as separate breeds. 

*General Impression*
The American Staffordshire Terrier should give the impression of great strength for his size, a well put-together dog, muscular, but agile and graceful, keenly alive to his surroundings. He should be stocky, not long-legged or racy in outline. *His courage is proverbial*

*History*
Some writers contend it was the white English Terrier, or the Black-and-Tan Terrier, that was used as a cross with the Bulldog to perfect the Staffordshire Terrier. It seems easier to believe that any game terrier, such as the Fox Terrier of the early 1800s, was used in this cross, since some of the foremost authorities on dogs of that time state that the Black-and-Tan and the white English Terrier were none too game, but these same authorities go on to stress the gameness of the Fox Terrier. It is reasonable to believe that breeders who were attempting to perfect a dog that would combine the spirit and agility of the terrier with the courage and tenacity of the Bulldog, would not use a terrier that was not game. In analyzing the three above-mentioned terriers at that time, we find that there was not a great deal of difference in body conformation, the *greatest differences being in color, aggressiveness, and spirit*.


For the record, I am not against pittie crosses or purebreds. I personally don't care for their looks, but I also think the Peke is the biggest mistake ever bred (I can't believe it took a group win this week).

There is a reason Pitts are used by drug dealers and other people for negative purposes. I can't remember ever reading an article or seeing a news story where a person was killed by a Beagle that escaped from a drug house. Chances are, if the Beagle was there it was training bait. There is a reason bad people own these dogs. And it's not because they have maintenenace free coats.

It's because they were originally bred with the intention of fighting and they are most likely going to repeat that instict.

I get that pitt owners love their dogs. I love my sporting breed idiots. But please, don't try to say that they are harmless and wouldn't hurt a fly and make excuses for this family's loss.


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## SmallTownGypsy (Dec 17, 2011)

furbabymum said:


> I guess it could be said that certain breeds are bred with the predisposition for things and as humans we use that to our advantage. I don't believe a job is necessarily trained into a dog either. They're just predisposed to it. I'll use our Great Pyr as an example again. I know many many farmers that buy the pup at 12 weeks old, go put it with the sheep and it never sees a human until it's time to round up the sheep. It instinctively gaurds them. It could go off and leave the sheep to their own devices. There is no reason for it to protect the sheep by killing coyotes. Arguably coyotes should be what the dog is drawn to, an animal it can pack up with.
> Anyway, am I making sense? I doubt I am so I probably didn't.


How can a 12 week old puppy protect anything from a full grown coyote?


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## MisssMarie (Jan 31, 2012)

I think you should have to take a test, get a permit and take the dog to training classes (if it's your first bully) to help stop them from going to bad owners
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AQHSam (Nov 23, 2011)

SmallTownGypsy said:


> Talking about yorkies and pits reminded me of a story my friend told me. When she was little, she lived in a neighborhood where everyone had pits or dobies. All the dogs were friendly and all got along. The neighbors would all go to one house, bring the kids and the dogs and send 'em into the backyard to play. Well, new people moved into the neighborhood and they were invited over and told to bring their dog b/c everyone does. Well, their dog was a little bitty yorkie. The kids went out to play in the yard where the pits and dobies were and the yorkie came with them. It saw the big dogs and froze on the porch. One of the largest pits saw the little yorkie and went running up to greet it. The closer he got the more the yorkie started shaking. Finally on the porch, the pit looked down on the yorkie and gave a soft little "woof." The yorkie fell over, flat on his side! They thought it was dead. They yelled for the parents. Turns out the yorkie has always had anxiety problems and that was just what it did when it got too freaked out.
> Just felt like throwing that little anecdote out there.


 
OMG!! That is a FUNNY story.


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## furbabymum (Dec 28, 2011)

lol. They put it out there so it'll bond to the flock. They don't want it to like humans. It gaurds from ALL threats. Anyway, it's obvi not going to be very useful until it's older. I've heard people talk about going out to check and their being 4-5 coyotes down. 2 great pyr can take down a whole lot of coyote.


SmallTownGypsy said:


> How can a 12 week old puppy protect anything from a full grown coyote?


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## AQHSam (Nov 23, 2011)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Faceman* 
_*True, however there is no specific instinct "bred into" pits to kill bulls,* any more than there is an instinct bred into dachshunds to kill badgers or a specific instinct bred into Rhodesian Ridgebacks to kill lions. In the short time modern breeds have been around, there has only been sufficient time to selectively breed to amplify existing instincts - certainly not to develop new ones. The rest is a matter of training._

_This is primarily in response to furbabymum's post..._



Okay, this I will agree with. Traits were bred into the dogs to accomplish man's needs. Pittbulls don't see a bull and think, OMG!!! i get to kill it!!!!

However, their fearlessness is a trait that creates a natural instinct to be on the aggressive rather than defensive.


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## fkonidaris (Jan 26, 2012)

My friend has a pit bull that she's had since he was a puppy and he is the most gentle, friendliest dog. He doesn't rough play. I think it's more about the owners and how the dogs are raised and treated than anything. But if a dog or any animal attacks another animal or person and severely injures or kills, I agree the animal should be put down.


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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

Athena would just like to say that if she could, she'd track down the mean doggies who killed the pony and eat them... but she's a bit busy trying to get Sixtoes to run at the present moment.

Isn't she _ferocious_?


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## LetAGrlShowU (Mar 25, 2009)

AQHSam said:


> For those that don't understand the original bred intent of the bull terrier:
> 
> 
> *A Look Back*
> ...


AQHSam- I am an owner of 1 pit and 1 pit mix. To quickly clarify one portion of your post, which is highlighted: You don't hear about the beagle killing someone simply because they dont have the strength or tenacity to do so. Thats not to say I didnt have my entire lip ripped off being a beagle, and recieved 21 stitches to keep it on. My dogs have yet to bite. Its a fact that many other breeds bite more often, pit's happen to be capable of more damage though, and so its heard of a lot more frequently.

Now, I completely agree that a pit is absolutely capable of hurting someone, but that never means they will. It means that they are strong and determined animals, some of my favorite traits, besides the short hair of course :wink:. It is not in a pit bull's nature to be aggressive towards people. The animal aggression is part of whats been bred into them, and a responsible owner has to recongnize that and take precautions. 

What happen to this pony was absolute owner neglect. You have to keep your dogs restrained, period. I hate that people used to let their yorkies out when i lived in the city, to run around and bakr at my leashed dogs. I did whatever i had to do to keep the little #%$ from coming near my dog, including kicking it once so that my dogs wouldnt fall under the bad rap, due to another owners negligence.
This poor pony and family suffered a huge loss, and I feel for them. I think the fact the dogs were pit bulls in secondary information. Very sad for the family.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

I had the most adorable little Arab, 13.3, 700 lbs, 7 years old. I had been working with him on his driving; he was awesome and loved it. We were going to our first combined drive in 3 months. On April 30 1997, two pit bulls killed him in his pasture. Ate him alive. It tears me up every time I think of it. Of course reading this brings back all memories and emotions.
I only looked at him from about 100 feet away and I saw enough to know he had a horrific death. There were photos taken, for a possible law suit, I have the photos but have never looked at them. As for the law suit, the Arab was worth, according to law, about .59 cents a pound. My employer, the owner, was not going to sue because the dogs were owned by white trash that didn't have a pot to **** in; my employer wasn't going to throw good money after bad, his words. We even had to pay to bury the horse, $175 for the backhoe. 
The county we live in is a class C county so no leash laws or other ordinances were broken. The policeman was very nice and came back around lunch, the horse wasn't buried yet. Saw the dogs eating my beloved little "Opie" and shot the brindle pitt on the spot. The black one was shot by sunset.
You can guess what I think of pit bulls.


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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

Two of my neighbors dogs took down one of my llamas. We thought that she'd died of old age, and that the coyotes had just found her (200 acres is plenty of room for us not to know). Then, a couple days later, they tried to take down another one. My mom tried to shoot them and missed. We gave away all of our llamas, including the injured one, to a professional llama packer who would nurse her back to help and could use them. (They were really well bred llamas) 

The dogs weren't killed, but are now cooped up 24/7. We didn't want to make enemies with our neighbor.

I was ****ed, though. What if they had attacked one of my horses? If they had so much as looked at Mudpie I would have torn them apart with my bare hands... Luckily they never got out again and nothing has happened.... :\


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Snizard93 said:


> It is a horrible thing to happen, and I am probably going to get ripped for this, but I love pit bulls. I think this is just going to be another one of those stories that turns even more people against them.
> 
> Please don't get me wrong, I feel terrible for the pony! My passion is horses. I also have a soft spot for these dogs.
> 
> My thoughts are with both owners.


I cannot agree with you. The dog owner was in neglect of his/her dogs. Just this morning I had 2 unknown dogs on my property. Although they didn't seem vicious, my dogs didn't want them there, especially my Husky mix, Rose. Although they were at least 30 pounds heavier than her, she continuously ran them BOTH, by her 60 pound self, off of the property, even across the street, but NO further bc she was defending the property.
MY DOGS DON'T WANDER. They knew that they can wander my 5 acres and hunt where I can see them, into the farm field behind me, but at 4 1/2 yo and almost 5yo they ALWAYS come to me when I call them. My dogs do hunt. THIS dog behavior was pack behavior and I GUARANTEE it was NOT the first time that these dogs were running as a pack and killing as a pack. I truly hope that they are put down so they don't breed. I'm sure that they aren't fixed, either. *Stupid, deadbeat dog owners.* I pray for the owners of the pony.


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## SmallTownGypsy (Dec 17, 2011)

The dogs in question were both fixed. That was the only good thing I heard about the owners.


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

Taffy Clayton said:


> You can guess what I think of pit bulls.


 
It's sad that you blame the dogs. Not the white trash that turned them into monsters.


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## SmallTownGypsy (Dec 17, 2011)

I am so thankful for the area I live in. There are some loose dogs, but all are sweet. One of them is actually the father to one of my pups. I saw her and her siblings as I was driving down the road. I immediately turned around and pulled into the drive where I saw them heading. The people were super nice and the man picked up the little brown and white pup and said she was his favorite and would be a good one to have. I took her to work with me that day since that's where I was heading.
Her father use to come by and visit and we'd let him in and he'd hang out until he was ready to go. Once we got out new puppy though, we didn't let him in anymore and he stopped coming around. We still see him though on occasion. ((All my dogs are fixed.))


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## SmallTownGypsy (Dec 17, 2011)

myhorsesonador said:


> It's sad that you blame the dogs. Not the white trash that turned them into monsters.


I can see being ****ed at those dogs despite them doing what dogs do. However, I don't see condemning an entire breed. Any kind of large dog could kill a horse. It just happened to be pits because of stupid people. 
I didn't buy a house in a certain area because an unknown dog walked onto the porch and up to the door while we were there. It was a pit. That didn't bother me. It supposedly belonged to the people down the hill from that house, that had a nasty trailer and tires littering their yard. That DID upset me. That made me think that was not the kind of people that should own a dog and that could make a dog go bad. Note, I'm not saying pit. I'm saying dog. If there was a lab that walked up on the porch I wouldn't have been anymore inclined to go out on the porch and say hi.


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

SmallTownGypsy said:


> I can see being ****ed at those dogs despite them doing what dogs do. However, I don't see condemning an entire breed. Any kind of large dog could kill a horse. It just happened to be pits because of stupid people.
> I didn't buy a house in a certain area because an unknown dog walked onto the porch and up to the door while we were there. It was a pit. That didn't bother me. It supposedly belonged to the people down the hill from that house, that had a nasty trailer and tires littering their yard. That DID upset me. That made me think that was not the kind of people that should own a dog and that could make a dog go bad. Note, I'm not saying pit. I'm saying dog. If there was a lab that walked up on the porch I wouldn't have been anymore inclined to go out on the porch and say hi.


We actualy have a member here, who's daughters horse was attacked by dogs. Non of witch were pits, that I remember. 

I've actualy been bit by a lab, and my brother was bit by the heeler down the road. The only thing a pit has ever dont to me, was made my face and arms stiky with slober.


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

its so sad the breed get condemned because of ignorant handlers... 

j


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

myhorsesonador said:


> It's sad that you blame the dogs. Not the white trash that turned them into monsters.


What is really sad is that my horse is dead.


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## LetAGrlShowU (Mar 25, 2009)

Taffy Clayton said:


> What is really sad is that my horse is dead.


At the fault of bad owners. Not bad dogs


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

Those dogs need to be put down. They didn't just bite or harass another animal, they actually _killed_ it. They are not safe around any other animals, period. It would be irresponsible to place them out in the public again. If they get half a chance, they will do it again. Who would take on that liability? 

I don't hate pit bulls, but I work with them and I know they can be unpredictable and often can't be trusted around other animals. This was completely the owner's fault. You can't tell me she didn't know her dogs were dangerous. This is a textbook case of poor management, and now this couple's pony is dead. I would go so far as to say the owner belongs in jail. There was no excuse for those dogs getting loose.


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## SmallTownGypsy (Dec 17, 2011)

Taffy Clayton said:


> What is really sad is that my horse is dead.


That is sad. I certainly don't dispute that! That is incredibly beyond sad! 

And I'm sure someone sat those dogs down and told them beforehand not to kill horses, but because they were pits they went ahead and did it anyway. Any other breed of dog would have listened, I'm sure. (I really hate sarcasm in the face of sadness, but I didn't know where to go otherwise. :-/ Sorry.)
But the dogs should have been put down after what they did and I'm glad they were. ANY dog should be put down after such a thing.

If my neighbor's Akita comes down and hurts my horse, rest assured I will raise hell, but I won't hold a grudge against the whole breed for what that dog did.

It seems the same as a certain race of person killing my best friend and then I suddenly hate all members of that race. The exception being the person would have done it for some "reason" rather than a "drive."  That would make it completely not understandable.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

What we must remember, is that many breeds are considered 'high prey'.
PBs and all Terriers, are considered as such. They were bred to hunt, track down and kill their prey. This as opposed to those breeds who were originally bred to hunt for killed animals/birds and bring it back to the owner. Others are bred to only point at prey, so the hunter can shoot.

All breeds of purebred dogs, were originally bred for a purpose. That purpose is still (most of the time) not far from the surface. Give them the opportunity and most will still do as they were bred to do. In a high prey breed, they will often chase and kill, anything which runs from them, or looks like prey.

PBs, were not an original breed. They were bred from various Terrier breeds. Now unfortunately, irresponsible breeders, also mix them with larger breeds. S. California, where I live, must surely be the PB capital of the world. We see them everywhere. With macho owners and loose on the streets. We no longer can walk our own dogs anywhere. We hear about PB attacks constantly, in this area. This on humans and animals.

49 goats were killed recently by three loose PBs, just a couple of miles from me. It was an incredible scene of carnage. An older lady was killed in this town, when looking after her son's PBs, a couple of years ago. 

The problem is, that PBs, are almost always, in the hands of idiots. Those who purchase and breed, because it makes them feel macho, for some reason. The owners most usually, don't know how to confine or train, a high prey breed. 

All owners of high prey breeds (in my opinion) should be required to take their dogs through a complete course of obedience training and prove their fencing is secure. 

Incidentally, I own a high prey breed. He's little, but is still very game if given the chance. 

Whenever one decides upon a breed, it is imperative, to do homework. This to find out what the breed was originally bred for, and know if one has the commitment, to train and care for such an animal. Sadly, most don't,

Lizzie


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## SmallTownGypsy (Dec 17, 2011)

featheredfeet said:


> all owners of high prey breeds (in my opinion) should be required to take their dogs through a complete course of obedience training and prove their fencing is secure.


amen!!!


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

but there will still be some who slip thru the cracks sadly


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

SmallTownGypsy said:


> And I'm sure someone sat those dogs down and told them beforehand not to kill horses, but because they were pits they went ahead and did it anyway. Any other breed of dog would have listened, I'm sure.
> QUOTE]
> 
> You have a warped sense of humor. And at my expense I might add.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Faceman said:


> Sorry, but I just can't let that stand. Pit Bulls were not bred to attack and kill bulls - they were bred with the tools to do so. Those are two different things. It is neither "in their fiber of their being" nor is it "instinct". They have to be trained to do whatever job is asked of them - just as any dog or any horse or any animal that is asked to do something beyond its natural instincts.
> 
> I fail to see how people can believe that stuff. Do you know how long it takes for a behavior to become an instinct? Try thousands of years - not hundreds.
> 
> ...


Pitbulls were once the favorite breed in the USA.


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

taffy -do you really blame the dogs?? or the humans who didn't train there dogs ??

to me it just seems unfair to condemn the breed for the ignorant human handlers..however if a dog was attacking my horse they would be shot whether the dog was just chasing it or actually tring to take it down. 

but i would blame that dog not the breed... just seems unfair to me  but i am sorry about your horse


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

mudpie said:


> Because he has six toes xD Original, I know. But he's a sweet guy and he likes his name!
> 
> He's polydactyl


I had one named Paddles.
Ernest Hemmingway used to raise them.


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## SmallTownGypsy (Dec 17, 2011)

Taffy Clayton said:


> You have a warped sense of humor. And at my expense I might add.


Wasn't meant to be funny. Shows that it's not right to condemn a breed for the actions of a few dogs. A lot of large dogs WILL try to take down a horse when given the chance. I said before, my Aussie tried and he lost. Had he had help...might have been different. Pits don't have a sense of right or wrong, roaming the land, looking for trouble. 

Just my thoughts. Certainly not trying to upset you and I am VERY sorry for your loss. As I said, I'm glad they put down the dogs that did that.

Would you hate all labs had it been labs that did the killing?


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## AQHSam (Nov 23, 2011)

LetAGrlShowU said:


> AQHSam- I am an owner of 1 pit and 1 pit mix. To quickly clarify one portion of your post, which is highlighted: *You don't hear about the beagle killing someone simply because they dont have the strength or tenacity to do so*. Thats not to say I didnt have my entire lip ripped off being a beagle, and recieved 21 stitches to keep it on. My dogs have yet to bite. Its a fact that many other breeds bite more often, pit's happen to be capable of more damage though, and so its heard of a lot more frequently.
> 
> Now, I completely agree that a pit is absolutely capable of hurting someone, but that never means they will. *It means that they are strong and determined animals, *some of my favorite traits, besides the short hair of course :wink:. It is not in a pit bull's nature to be aggressive towards people. The animal aggression is part of whats been bred into them, and a responsible owner has to recongnize that and take precautions.
> 
> ...


Yes, you are correct, and I apologize for not being clearer. Small dog bites can hurt and can cause great damage. Scars and emotional wounds. A beagle is also capable of killing smaller dogs, by mistaking them as chew toys and squishing them.

One thing you said much better than I was able to convey is highlighted.

*Most dogs* (with the exception of trained police and military breeds) will bite and run. Those bites are just as dangerous and painful. But, my experience with pitties has been bite and hold and the hold actually is what causes the muscular and bone damage. Their jaws are SOOOOO strong, they can really take it from a bite and scarring to death.

We had a rash of deaths and sever injuries at the jaws of pitties in Michigan. Rural and city. Good homes and bad homes. These dogs didn't just attack other animals, but also children and adults. One dog broke out of a house to attack a child on a bike.

I don't mean to insult pit owners in this posting. But, they are more dangerous than the common dog (following the 80/20 rule) and should be respected for such.


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## smokeslastspot (Jan 11, 2012)

kait18 said:


> taffy -do you really blame the dogs?? or the humans who didn't train there dogs ??
> 
> to me it just seems unfair to condemn the breed for the ignorant human handlers..however if a dog was attacking my horse they would be shot whether the dog was just chasing it or actually trying to take it down.
> 
> but i would blame that dog not the breed... just seems unfair to me  but i am sorry about your horse



Couldn't have said it better. The sadness that comes with an animal being killed by a pit makes me very sad for the owner and pony, but it doesn't make me want to condemn an entire breed.


There are a lot of dogs in my area including pitts and pitt mixes but their owners keep them firmly in control. None of them have ever gone after me or my animals. 

The St. Bernard that lived next door however did come up behind me in the barn and grab my leg in it's mouth and refuse to let go. This dog's owners were idiots. We had told them multiple times the dog was aggressive and they needed to address that issue. Obviously they didn't since I had to shoot it while it was hanging off my leg.

The dogs I see most harassing my livestock? Herding dogs that people get as pets and allow to run loose. They have not been trained and are not being controlled in a proper manner so they go around and kill livestock.

The dogs I have been bitten by most often (as a vet tech/groomer)? Little dogs. I would much rather groom or treat a pit bull any day over a teacup/miniature anything. When a little froofroo dog comes in everyone finds something else to do real fast because nobody wants to mess with that. When pitt comes in it's no big deal. While I do have two miniature pinchers - I make them behave. My vet loves to see me come in, he says mine are two of only a handful of small dogs he is not leery of being bitten by.


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## SmallTownGypsy (Dec 17, 2011)

smokeslastspot said:


> The St. Bernard that lived next door however did come up behind me iDn the barn and grab my leg in it's mouth and refuse to let go. This dog's owners were idiots. We had told them multiple times the dog was aggressive and they needed to address that issue. Obviously they didn't since I had to shoot it while it was hanging off my leg.


OMG! That's terrifying! Did you have your gun on you or in reach? Good thing you could get to it. Real life Cujo.


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

furbabymum said:


> I'm a dog lover first and a horse lover second. I've 4 amazing HUGE dogs. One thing I know is that this is a complete owner error. We have a great pyr that can jump our 6 foot fence. Does every chance he gets actually and goes to chase the neighbors cows. So what do we do knowing he can jump the fence, ONLY LET HIM OUT UNDER STRICT SUPERVISION! These owners have received a previous ticket for having their dogs out. There is no excuse for them to have been loose again. Then to put the blame on the pony owner. It just shows to me that the owners are completely incompetent and have basically killed their dogs.


I couldn't agree more. When we first moved here our two boxers found a way through a makeshift run and ran amuk on an athletic track, robbing a soccer ball off a group of young kids. When we tried to fix the run, and they got out again we forked out about 3k on a professionally made steel dog run and put chicken wire across the top. Havent had a problem since - my dogs, my responsibility, and I sure as heck didn't want somebody knockin on my door to say either of them had attacked a child, sheep, cow, or anything else.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

Gosh Taffy I am so sorry about your horse. It must have been awful for you to come to the pasture in the morning and find your beloved horse ripped to shreds with his ears chewed off, his nose gone, and eyes gaping open, two huge areas on his rump eaten away, and his throat ripped open. 

It must have been so horrible that you took down the pasture fence that this happened in and never put another horse there. I bet you are afraid to walk around your property by yourself, God forbid you take your own dog for a walk, as you might encounter another killer dog. I bet you don't ever leave your horses outside at night anymore for fear of coming in the morning and finding another member of your family dead in such a horrific fashion.

I know that you must think about it every time you ride by the spot it happened or cut the grass in the field where he is buried. It must have been horrible to notice that grass didn't grow back for the entire summer where it happened, and all the blood must have been very hard to see. 

Even though it has been 13 years, I’m sure you miss him very dearly.

Thanks everyone!!!!


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## furbabymum (Dec 28, 2011)

I would be more leary of an aggressive, ill trained St. Bernard than a pit bull. I've seen my massive dog in action and if that intent were trained on a person they'd be dead so quick. Such big mouths, lots of muscle and an incredible amount of body weight to back it up with. Shuddering at the though of having it clamped on to my leg.


smokeslastspot said:


> The St. Bernard that lived next door however did come up behind me in the barn and grab my leg in it's mouth and refuse to let go. This dog's owners were idiots. We had told them multiple times the dog was aggressive and they needed to address that issue. Obviously they didn't since I had to shoot it while it was hanging off my leg.


Here is a pic of our ferocious St. B. getting mauled by.......our infant. 







And here he is using his muscle.


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

Taffy - I think what you must have gone through would have been pretty horrific, I couldnt imagine what image is burned into your mind.. I really can't. I can't blame the breed though, the road I hacked last year the only dog who tried anything was a lab... we rode by staffies, huskies, german shepards and boxers. Bad ownership will make a bad dog. 

Again, sorry for your loss.


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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

Mastiffs are powerful beasties, too. I'd be scared to death if I had one running at me aggressively. Raksha would run at anything she was trying to knock down seriously with her head down and would ram in to it. She was also fast –*she caught a rabbit and ate it... except for the head. She gave that to us as a present. And she could crush metal dog food bowls with one... nibble. xD

Crazy beastly sweetie


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## smokeslastspot (Jan 11, 2012)

SmallTownGypsy said:


> OMG! That's terrifying! Did you have your gun on you or in reach? Good thing you could get to it. Real life Cujo.



I have a concealed carry license so I had in on my belt. The owners threatened to sue me when they found out about it.

I don't blame the St. Bernard breed at all just the owners of that particular dog. There is another St. Bernard down the road that is quite a love bug to whoever will pay attention to him.

These same owners of the dog I shot had a jack russell that tried to jump on the atv and bite me also.


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## SmallTownGypsy (Dec 17, 2011)

Figured I would share a pic of my pit mix, Vegas. Here she's sleeping with her kitty, Eeyore. Sorry if the pic is big.


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## furbabymum (Dec 28, 2011)

I love me some cute animal pictures!
Here is our cow chasing fence jumper:


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## SmallTownGypsy (Dec 17, 2011)

smokeslastspot said:


> I have a concealed carry license so I had in on my belt. The owners threatened to sue me when they found out about it.
> 
> I don't blame the St. Bernard breed at all, there is another down the road that is quite a love bug to whoever will pay attention to him.


Good thing you had it then! I've never met a mean St. Bernard and wouldn't want to. Only seen the lovable, slobber bucket ones. lol


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## mystykat (Dec 4, 2011)

I'm just going to go right out and say that people kill ponies way more often than dogs do. Sometimes in even more horrific ways. And we just hate those people..not all people. It's not fair to condemn a whole breed of dog for the actions of the poorly trained ones.
Poor pony. Poor dogs for not having a responsible owner - the dogs didn't even have a chance.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Well, I have a story for all of the "Pitbulls are always aggressive and are bad dogs"
Not always true, another "hobby" of mine and my friends is hunting wild hogs with dogs..We usually will have 3 or 4 bay dogs and 1 catch dog, that catch dog is a Pitbull. All of our dogs are out fitted with radio collars, high neck collars, and cut vests. Like the below pictures..

















Now, saying all Pitbulls are aggressive is crazy, they aren't..I've put Chloe in a catch pen with a 50lb sow - same size as Chloe, and that mean sow chased Chloe, my 50 lb Pitbull, all over that pen..Some Pitbulls just won't be aggressive, they won't "attack and kill"...It all has to do with their personal mentality..We've bought dogs with a ton of potential and tried them on a hog, some just don't have it. They would rather run away from the hog scared to death of it...Saying every Pitbull is aggressive and will kill anything is just wrong..

Anyway..back to my story.

We take the dogs, suit them up, and each walk a dog, I'm usually in control of the Pitbull..Karma is a friend's dog and she's our best dog by far..Karma is a total of 30lbs and is an absolute BEAST of a little power ball..She is one of the sweetest and loving dogs I have ever met, she sleeps in the bed with Colby, loves other animals, kids, she's never met a stranger...But Karma, is also a trained catch dog. When we take the dogs out and start suiting her up she loves it and ready to go...We turn the bay dogs loose and keep walking and listening for them to start baying, when they do, I let Karma or whatever catch dog go..Karma hauls butt to the baying and "catches" the hog..Karma will NOT let go of said hog until we get there and give the release command..Now, I am all of 104lbs. The boys jump on the hog and I go for the Pitbull. I don't have to drag or fight her off..I say "enough, release" and she lets go. Happy as she can be, I go tie her to a tree and lots of "good girl"s then go for the other dogs...The boys finish tying up the hog and I look after the dogs...It all has to do with that ONE dog as an individual, you can't say that just because it's a Pitbull it is going to attack and kill something..If anyone ever says that to me I let them meet Chloe or Karma..They can love all over Karma and then I tell the person she's a bred and trained hog catch dog..Big shocker!...

How a dog acts depends on the owner, socializing, and the training the dog has received...

This is a picture of a hog we caught a few months ago with just Karma and 1 bay dog..He is now mounted and in my friend's house..Two of my younger sisters were actually along for the ride on this hunt and neither had ever been before so it was a big deal for them..


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## mystykat (Dec 4, 2011)

Drumrunner - You're pretty much my hero right now.


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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

lol DrumRunner

******* Family Portrait! xD


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## SmallTownGypsy (Dec 17, 2011)

Are your younger sisters the ones smiling? lol I like how the other three are so solemn and the two in the middle being all toothy.


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## furbabymum (Dec 28, 2011)

DrumRunner- Share the bacon??


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

since everybody else is doing it... 

Here is my kiddie and Oscar.. my boxer who a year and a half ago  When pregnant we were told to get rid of our "big scary mean dogs" as they would be horrible and aggresive to the baby - because apparently that is what boxers do... looks like he fits that image does it?










God I loved that dog.. came home from work one day and he was lieing there dead.. I cried for about 3 days solid. To top it off, the day before I had taken a horrific fall off a horse and could barely move so had to wait on my husband to get home to bury him  Havent had the same bond with a dog since.


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

would love to try some hog hunting lol.. looks very interesting


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

lol He was very tasty! The boys say we can't smile in hunting pictures because you can't look all smiley and goofy in hunting pictures..*rolls eyes* They say you have to look "hard" in hunting pictures....

My sister is on the far left and the one in the middle...I'm in between the two other girls..

It's an awesome rush!!


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

I have shown, trained and handled dogs for 60 years, but have never heard that said about Boxers. Sorry you lost your beloved boy. It always hurts doesn't it. 

Lizzie


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

DrumRunner. I know that wild hogs are a huge problem in many parts of the US and even across the world. They are horribly vicious and cause untold damage to fields and crops. Glad you and others, are helping with the problem.

Lizzie


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

FeatheredFeet said:


> I have shown, trained and handled dogs for 60 years, but have never heard that said about Boxers. Sorry you lost your beloved boy. It always hurts doesn't it.
> 
> Lizzie


It was mostly from my inlaws.. who keep westies.. and their dogs I am actually nervous around. I think they were scared of their size and the faces...Osc would run up to people barking if they came to our property but stop at the fence with his chest puffed out. What people didn't know is if you said boo to him he would have turned and ran the other direction :lol: Used to come to work with me daily when i was manager of a yard... thanks though, still get teary thinking bout him.. I'll always wish I had been there for him when he passed 

edit: I just want to say, both Osc and my other boxer who we still have were/are amazing with kids. They were sat on, pulled at, bitten (only once!) ect by curious kids and just licked them in return. Couldnt think of a better "babysitter"


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## SmallTownGypsy (Dec 17, 2011)

When I was pregnant my mother kept telling me it would be good to rehome the dogs (as if babies never grow up around dogs in this world). What did I do? I got another dog. Oops.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

FeatheredFeet said:


> DrumRunner. I know that wild hogs are a huge problem in many parts of the US and even across the world. They are horribly vicious and cause untold damage to fields and crops. Glad you and others, are helping with the problem.
> 
> Lizzie


They are awful animals..Farmers will pay us to come catch the hogs and remove them, a lot of the time we won't kill the hog ourselves but will give the hog to less fortunate families for the meat...Wild hogs, especially the boars or sows with piglets, are VICIOUS. They will chase you and tear you up if they catch you...I've been chased a ton of times and had to climb in trees and wait on the hog to leave so I could get down..The "cutters" or tusks on the boars can be huge and are very sharp and they know how to use them..even young ones.


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## SmallTownGypsy (Dec 17, 2011)

All I know about hogs is what I saw in "Old Yeller." Seemed scary.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

Geez. I can't imagine anyone thinking Boxers a big dogs. They are a medium sized dog at best. They certainly can be good 'alert' dogs and I suppose some might consider that dangerous.

I saw a TV show the other day, about the wild hog problems. I was surprised at just how bad it really is DrumRunner. Does their meat taste differently, from domestic pig?

Lizzie


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

SmallTownGypsy said:


> All I know about hogs is what I saw in "Old Yeller." Seemed scary.


Thanks for making me laugh my **** off and get that "your a weirdo look" from my husband. :lol: It was quickly followed with the "be quiet I'm watching my match" look that I get often.


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## SmallTownGypsy (Dec 17, 2011)

Maple said:


> Thanks for making me laugh my **** off and get that "your a weirdo look" from my husband. :lol: It was quickly followed with the "be quiet I'm watching my match" look that I get often.


Hey, I know that look, too! 
LOL Very welcome, Maple!


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

FeatheredFeet said:


> I saw a TV show the other day, about the wild hog problems. I was surprised at just how bad it really is DrumRunner. Does their meat taste differently, from domestic pig?
> 
> Lizzie


They are "gamier" tasting..If that makes sense, more of a deeper taste than domestic pigs...It is amazing marinated and grilled...Abbeville, Georgia is actually home to the biggest wild hogs in the US. It's about an hour away and they have a festival every year where hunters go and "show" their best dogs..There are catch competitions and bay competitions..Baying is just two or more dogs keeping the hog in one spot waiting on the catch dog to come catch the pig..

The worst part about the hogs is how fast the multiply, the sow just keeps having babies all through out her life..and they travel in herds.. So a farmer can plant his crop and say 30 - 40 hogs come through and root the field up in one night and the farmer has to replant the field..Hogs don't know when to stop eating, they just root and eat all day.


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## furbabymum (Dec 28, 2011)

You're making me want to teach my dogs to do something other than eat and poop.....
BTW do you take a tax deduction on your dogs care? 
Editing because I realized what a strange random question that was to ask. ANyway, my DH is desperate to teach our St. B. to be a corpse sniffing dog so we can deduct his care at taxes. lol He eats a lot.


DrumRunner said:


> They are "gamier" tasting..If that makes sense, more of a deeper taste than domestic pigs...It is amazing marinated and grilled...Abbeville, Georgia is actually home to the biggest wild hogs in the US. It's about an hour away and they have a festival every year where hunters go and "show" their best dogs..There are catch competitions and bay competitions..Baying is just two or more dogs keeping the hog in one spot waiting on the catch dog to come catch the pig..


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## nuisance (Sep 8, 2011)

Ok, since others did also. Graffic pic of my pit mauling my grandson! When the kids are here, they and the dog are inseperable! Even share lunch....off the same spoon/fork sometimes!:wink:


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

furbabymum said:


> You're making me want to teach my dogs to do something other than eat and poop.....
> BTW do you take a tax deduction on your dogs care?
> Editing because I realized what a strange random question that was to ask. ANyway, my DH is desperate to teach our St. B. to be a corpse sniffing dog so we can deduct his care at taxes. lol He eats a lot.


 Laugh! They definitely have to have the mind set to be a hog dog. Poor Chloe thought that hog was going to kill her and it wasn't even chasing her a whole lot..just running towards her and then running away, and she was trained and supposed to be a fight dog? ...No, I don't and I'm not sure if my friends do or not..I just have Chloe, and while that fatty eats a lot I just see her as my child and have that responsibility to take full care of her whether that be food, vet, toys..the whole deal.


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## furbabymum (Dec 28, 2011)

It's gross but so does my son. Here he is letting the pyr clean his hands between courses.....









nuisance said:


> Ok, since others did also. Graffic pic of my pit mauling my grandson! When the kids are here, they and the dog are inseperable! Even share lunch....off the same spoon/fork sometimes!:wink:


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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

Here's the ferocious Athena one week after having twelve healthy puppies... she was absolutely exhausted... on top of her hunger strike!


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

lol I love the pictures of the aggressive killer dogs!


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## furbabymum (Dec 28, 2011)

Last tax season we ended up paying several thousand so my hubby is all about DEDUCTIONS! Anyway, just wondered as if the dog makes money for you you can deduct their care. Our dogs don't make any money they just cost it. lol Owell, they keep my feet nice and toasty when it's cold.


DrumRunner said:


> Laugh! They definitely have to have the mind set to be a hog dog. Poor Chloe thought that hog was going to kill her and it wasn't even chasing her a whole lot..just running towards her and then running away, and she was trained and supposed to be a fight dog? ...No, I don't and I'm not sure if my friends do or not..I just have Chloe, and while that fatty eats a lot I just see her as my child and have that responsibility to take full care of her whether that be food, vet, toys..the whole deal.


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

Surely we should have just started a Show Off your dog post rather than hijack this one about a poor pony who was eatten?

Anyway, since its gone beyond that I just wanted to show off another couple of pics of my beautiful Osc... not that I'm biased. RIP my man.

















and mudpie - I love dobies!! I so want to get one someday.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

furbabymum said:


> Last tax season we ended up paying several thousand so my hubby is all about DEDUCTIONS! Anyway, just wondered as if the dog makes money for you you can deduct their care. Our dogs don't make any money they just cost it. lol Owell, they keep my feet nice and toasty when it's cold.


lol Same here..Except she thinks she needs to keep my pillow nice and toasty..She will sneak onto the bed in the middle of the night and has to sleep like a person under the covers with her head on a pillow..She's awful..and how a 52lb Pitbull can sneak onto a bed I have NO idea, but she's perfected it.


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## furbabymum (Dec 28, 2011)

I should stop because I'm way too proud a mama of my doggies. Last one I promise:
I'd like to say he's keeping my side of the bed warm but the reality is I was replaced.


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## kiwigirl (Sep 30, 2009)

furbabymum said:


> I have to disagree. Having owned 5 different breeds in the last 4 years I can say from my experience that they know what they were bred for. My viszla, never being trained to do anything but love, is an avid and incredible hunter. That is what he was bred for. Our weim is the same though less good at it. Our great pyr was bred to gaurd and that dog is **** good at it. Never being trained to do anything but sit at home that dog gaurds everything. The house, the baby, the other dogs. He's incredible. The one I will say is worthless is our St. B. Not really any avalanches for him to be finding people in so he sits around and just loves.
> I believe in instincts and dogs being bred for and knowing their purpose.


Me too! We have a Vizsla as well. He sounds exactly like yours, our Vizzy is the most loving, adorable dog, people friendly, other animal friendly... and a born and bred hunter! He has an instinct for hunting that is uncanny, he started pointing at eight months old. He is bred to hunt infact we have had to do very little training of him his instinct is innate. Yet I can take him for a walk in hunting country and he will completely ignore all game, only when I have a rifle in my hand does he become a hunting dog. He is truly amazing.

I am really sad for the owners of the pony, I would be petitioning to get the dogs destroyed if I was them. I can relate to them because our pet pig was attacked by three of our neighbours dogs (mastiff x) they had torn one of her ears clean off her by the time I got there with the .308 rifle. Neighbourly relations were strained for a while but we all got over it. There is nothing worse than seeing an animal you care about being savaged by dogs, it is truly horrific.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I wish people wouldn't put such a bad rep on pits. Any dog can be aggressive and capable of doing this.

I grew up with great danes and black and tan coonhounds. We have a malamute when I was young. His name was Icebear; I have a VHS tape of me riding on him when I was barely old enough to walk at christmas time and pictures of me hanging on him and pulling on him and just messing around with him. He was the sweetest dog in the world and he came everywhere with us.

Well, one day Mom took him out to the barn with her (He had been around horses and foals since forever; I have a picture of him actually laying with a calf we brought home for the auction, licking him) But he saw one of the two week old colts. He attacked him and wouldn't let go; My dad shot him trying to get him off the baby. But the baby died anyway.

I gave up on having small animals as pets because on multiple occasions the coonhounds would eat them. (Poor poor guinea pigs and bunnies).

And the great danes have gotten into fights with each other before for no apparant reason. One minute they would be playing happily, sleeping together, eating together....Then they'd just lose it.

My point is dogs are dogs. Yes, there are some dogs who are naturally aggressive. But like that story about Icebear, sometimes it just happens with no warning whatsoever. 

I'm not saying that this is excuseable; But I am saying that sometimes, no matter how horrible it is, dogs will do this. That is why it is up to the owners of the dogs to know how to deal with it and respond accordingly to take the appropriate action for the situation and animal at hand.


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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

Maple said:


> and mudpie - I love dobies!! I so want to get one someday.


They're awesome

Athena loves her toys!

Her ducky...










and her doggy...










I must be really brave to own such a huge, ferocious, dangerous dog!


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## SmallTownGypsy (Dec 17, 2011)

Aww! My Che loved her toys, too! I miss her like crazy, but Vegas was here first so Che had to go when she kept starting fights.


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## furbabymum (Dec 28, 2011)

It's funny. We live in the country and so we naturally have mice. If it weren't for that dog we'd have no idea where to set the traps. **** good at pointing out mice but unfortunately too big to get in and catch them. When did you get your viz? I ask because I took ours in to the vet and she was fawing all over him. Said she'd tried to get one for hunting but they'd become rare and ultra expensive. Made ma laugh to think of our old man as a sought after breed. So hyper!


kiwigirl said:


> Me too! We have a Vizsla as well. He sounds exactly like yours, our Vizzy is the most loving, adorable dog, people friendly, other animal friendly... and a born and bred hunter! He has an instinct for hunting that is uncanny, he started pointing at eight months old. He is bred to hunt infact we have had to do very little training of him his instinct is innate. Yet I can take him for a walk in hunting country and he will completely ignore all game, only when I have a rifle in my hand does he become a hunting dog. He is truly amazing.
> 
> I am really sad for the owners of the pony, I would be petitioning to get the dogs destroyed if I was them. I can relate to them because our pet pig was attacked by three of our neighbours dogs (mastiff x) they had torn one of her ears clean off her by the time I got there with the .308 rifle. Neighbourly relations were strained for a while but we all got over it. There is nothing worse than seeing an animal you care about being savaged by dogs, it is truly horrific.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Okay I have to share pics now. :lol: These are my ferocious boar hunting dogs!

This is Lucy, fawn great dane, 33inches tall:


















Satie, black, grew to be 34inches tall. Died in 2004 from heart failure  RIP Satie












Luna, the tiny one at 32inches:










Oh, and these are our very vicious **** hunting hounds :lol:


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

omgoodness cute puppies... well there all cute but **** those pups are perty


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

Lovely dog pics all. I also had Great Danes for many years. Loved the pics SorrelHorse. I brought 5 Great Danes with me from the UK, when I came to the US in the early '60's. 

Lizzie


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

kait18 said:


> omgoodness cute puppies... well there all cute but **** those pups are perty


 
There is nothing cuter than coonhound puppies! :lol:














































Wait. That last one isn't a coonhound! PFFT little sneaker just has to have her picture everywhere!


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## SmallTownGypsy (Dec 17, 2011)

This little boy was a terror! OMG! He loved being loved on, but hating being held. Would rip a hand up!
He's a arctic/silver fox cross.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

As we are all horse people, I do find this discussion rather strange. 
I am sure that the majority of us have met our fair share of nasty horses, but do we view certain breeds of horses in the same way that pits are viewed? 
I don't think we do. It's viewed as bad training/terrible owners/crazy animal/or past experiences. 
Why when we are talking about pits does it become different?


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## SmallTownGypsy (Dec 17, 2011)

AlexS said:


> As we are all horse people, I do find this discussion rather strange.
> I am sure that the majority of us have met our fair share of nasty horses, but do we view certain breeds of horses in the same way that pits are viewed?
> I don't think we do. It's viewed as bad training/terrible owners/crazy animal/or past experiences.
> Why when we are talking about pits does it become different?


Probably because of the severity of the attacks involving them. I don't know any nasty horses that have ripped a person's face off. The more grotesque attacks are sensationalized by the media.


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

SorrelHorse said:


> There is nothing cuter than coonhound puppies! :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


those ears are what get me every time  love them


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

SmallTownGypsy said:


> Probably because of the severity of the attacks involving them. I don't know any nasty horses that have ripped a person's face off. The more grotesque attacks are sensationalized by the media.


i have seen horses rip collar bones out of place...and go for peoples necks /faces... its just something wrong with them and those horses that do have a screw loose are usually pts hands down...and on top of that is 50% of the population know nothing about horses other than they are perty... people see dogs every where its extremely common to see a dog and interact with them. 

which is why it draws out more terror...dogs are every where horses aren't.

since bully breeds and instinctive to hunt they go for it when lack of training isnt in there everyday living environment teahcing them otherwise...which is very sad since the animals are the ones that suffer


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

SmallTownGypsy said:


> Probably because of the severity of the attacks involving them. I don't know any nasty horses that have ripped a person's face off. The more grotesque attacks are sensationalized by the media.


You need to get out more. Horses have killed and maimed a lot of people. They are just as dangerous as dogs - if not moreso...


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I'd rather be attacked by a dog than a horse.


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## SmallTownGypsy (Dec 17, 2011)

Faceman said:


> You need to get out more. Horses have killed and maimed a lot of people. They are just as dangerous as dogs - if not moreso...


I didn't say that haven't hurt anyone. When they do, however, they are less sensationalized. I have yet to see a horse attack on the news.


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## nuisance (Sep 8, 2011)

SmallTownGypsy said:


> I didn't say that haven't hurt anyone. When they do, however, they are less sensationalized. I have yet to see a horse attack on the news.


I have only once. Just this last year. Woman killed by a horse while trying to load it (if I remember right). And it was not the first time this horse had ....trampled?....attacked?..... someone. (I'm old and my memory isn't worth sh**) The horse had to be put down.


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## nuisance (Sep 8, 2011)

Here's another one, close but not quite like the one earlier, posted by someone else


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## SmallTownGypsy (Dec 17, 2011)

SorrelHorse said:


> I'd rather be attacked by a dog than a horse.


Hmm...ya know, I have always said I won't own an animal that I can't defeat in "hand-to-hand" combat. I guess a horse is the exception to that rule though.


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## Moei (Jan 11, 2012)

i am a fan of the breed but if they kill another animal or human they should be euthanised!


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## kiwigirl (Sep 30, 2009)

furbabymum said:


> It's funny. We live in the country and so we naturally have mice. If it weren't for that dog we'd have no idea where to set the traps. **** good at pointing out mice but unfortunately too big to get in and catch them. When did you get your viz? I ask because I took ours in to the vet and she was fawing all over him. Said she'd tried to get one for hunting but they'd become rare and ultra expensive. Made ma laugh to think of our old man as a sought after breed. So hyper!


Here in NZ they are really gaining popularity as hunting dogs. We are very fortunate because the people that are doing the breeding of them here are hunting people themselves so are not breeding for looks only, which I think is great.

Yes, I know what you mean by hyper, my nick name for Sargeant is busy vizzy! I actually feel embarrassed because he is so thin yet he gets three times as much food as our chocolate Labrador, Sargeant is fed three times a day to try and put weight on him but he is so active that he runs it off as fast as we get it into him. And yet when he goes out hunting he will sit quietly or creep along at your heels for hours and he is just about completely silent in the bush. He is phenomenal as a hunting partner, he isn't even two yet and I can't rave about him enough.

He is also amazing with my 5 yr old daughter, they play together happily for hours and he follows her around to see if she needs him to play with her. I love my Viz!


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## lilbit11011 (Apr 15, 2010)

I own a pit mix myself. I seriously think that the pit breed is not for novice owners. They are wonderful dogs that have fallen into the wrong hands too many times through no fault of their own. 

Regardless of breed though I am VERY against dogs attacking horses. I have had to pts one horse because of two Great Pyrenees (sp?) attacking him. Same dogs attacked my current gelding before. Thankfully for him, he got one and we manage to run the other off.

Also had three Golden Retrievers attack my QH and caused months of stall care for her before she could ever even go into a paddock. In all cases everyone but my family felt that it was ok because they were "good dogs" and it wasn't normal for them to do that and they surely meant no harm. Yeah, tell that to my horses. 


I feel bad for the pits in the story who obviously had no guidance, training, or supervision to ensure a happy life. Also, for the poor pony who did nothing to deserve such a horrid fate.


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## SunnyK01 (Mar 15, 2010)

Moei said:


> i am a fan of the breed but if they kill another animal or human they should be euthanised!


I have to comment on this one too. Dogs who are aggressive towards other animals should not be immediately put to death. I am in complete agreement that dogs with human aggression should most likely be humanely euthanized, however aggression towards other animals is inherent in most dogs. Almost any dog, especially in a pack, has the ability to kill another animal. This does not make them a bad dog! 

I have 2 breeds which are both known for aggression towards other animals; a JRT and a pittie. I knew when I adopted both of these dogs that there is an inherent risk if they are allowed free roam around other animals. My dogs both live with cats, horses, and ducks. I have no doubt that my dogs will never kill another animal. This is, again, because they will NEVER have the opportunity to do so. Having an animal aggressive dog is an incredibly easy situation to stay in control of. Unfortunately, most dog owners are not willing to take the neccesary precautions to ensure the safety of other animals. I know plenty of JRTs who were just thrown unsupervised into a new home and killed the family cat, but those dogs went into rescue, were placed with JRT knowledgeable owners who don't let the dogs be unsupervised near small animals, and are now productive members of canine society. Heck, I even know people with dog aggressive pit bulls who have trained and socialized their dogs well enough that their dogs were able to pass the AKC Canine Good Citizen test.

In short, aggression towards other animals does not predispose aggression towards humans and should not be treated as such. Dogs are ANIMALS and they evolved with survival of the fittest. Dogs who kill a weaker animal because the dogs were allowed to roam unsupervised does not make the dogs monsters that deserve to die. This goes for any, and every, breed.


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## furbabymum (Dec 28, 2011)

Funny you said that. Our viz is the same. I've been in the vet a few times because you could honestly see every single bone in his body. The vet was even shocked to see him. You'd think he was a severe abuse case. The amazing thing is he was getting 6 coffee cups of nutra max and a can of wet dog food. Just could not put weight on him. He's still super skinny though a lot less so now. He's super old though at 12. Not that you would be able to tell from how he acts.
Oh, yours super clingy too? I once heard Viszla were nicknamed velcro dogs. He most certainly is that.


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## furbabymum (Dec 28, 2011)

Yup. Put my dogs out in society and they'll be killing everything they can catch. They've killed cats, pulled ducks through fences, all sorts of wild animals, antelope included. Though it was only the stupid antelope. We had to put up the big dog run. They go in the run and the house. That's it. No problems anymore. We're putting the electric horse fence up in the dog run this summer to keep the stupid pyrenees from escaping too.


SunnyK01 said:


> I have to comment on this one too. Dogs who are aggressive towards other animals should not be immediately put to death. I am in complete agreement that dogs with human aggression should most likely be humanely euthanized, however aggression towards other animals is inherent in most dogs. Almost any dog, especially in a pack, has the ability to kill another animal. This does not make them a bad dog!
> 
> I have 2 breeds which are both known for aggression towards other animals; a JRT and a pittie. I knew when I adopted both of these dogs that there is an inherent risk if they are allowed free roam around other animals. My dogs both live with cats, horses, and ducks. I have no doubt that my dogs will never kill another animal. This is, again, because they will NEVER have the opportunity to do so. Having an animal aggressive dog is an incredibly easy situation to stay in control of. Unfortunately, most dog owners are not willing to take the neccesary precautions to ensure the safety of other animals. I know plenty of JRTs who were just thrown unsupervised into a new home and killed the family cat, but those dogs went into rescue, were placed with JRT knowledgeable owners who don't let the dogs be unsupervised near small animals, and are now productive members of canine society. Heck, I even know people with dog aggressive pit bulls who have trained and socialized their dogs well enough that their dogs were able to pass the AKC Canine Good Citizen test.
> 
> In short, aggression towards other animals does not predispose aggression towards humans and should not be treated as such. Dogs are ANIMALS and they evolved with survival of the fittest. Dogs who kill a weaker animal because the dogs were allowed to roam unsupervised does not make the dogs monsters that deserve to die. This goes for any, and every, breed.


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## furbabymum (Dec 28, 2011)

Speaking of aggressiveness my hugest pet peeve is Vet clinic animals. There is nothing worse than taking a sick dog into the vet and having to keep their 3 legged cat from getting eaten while waiting in the waiting room. Or when they have their own dogs running loose in the clinic. I'm ashamed to say that my dogs are not well socialized so strangers and other animals aren't welcome around them.


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## furbabymum (Dec 28, 2011)

You want to know how to tell if someone is completely dog obsessed. This is how:


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Moei said:


> i am a fan of the breed but if they kill another animal or human they should be euthanised!


I don't agree with this 100% either.. yes, any dog that is human aggressive probably should be PTS..but that's ANY dog..not just a Pitbull or other "aggressive" breeds. 

And as far as any dog, whatever breed, for killing animals....That's not exactly fairfor the dog to just be PTS, it depends on the situation.. If a stray dog is starving they'll probably kill a smaller animal and eat it, that dog hasn't been socialized and is starving to death, it's survival of the fittest...Then you have dogs trained for hunting like our Pitbulls, bird dogs, rabbit dogs, **** dogs, fox dogs, squirrel dogs..whatever you want to pick, those animals are trained to get and catch that animals..Yes, sometimes they'll die before you get there..Our Pits have killed piglets before if they are in a herd with others..but I can't get mad at the dog. I trained it to catch and hold a hog, it just happened to grab a piglet. 

In the case with the pony, or other dogs who have bad owners..that is NOT that dog's fault. They had a bad owner and that own didn't take full responsibility for that dog.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

You know how you judge if a horse should have a red ribbon on his tail? If he has ever shown any signs of ever kicking before in his life under saddle. If your horse has never once kicked at another horse, you don't have to put one on. So if your horse kicks at another horse at the show but has never once done it before or shown any other signs of doing it, then you really aren't the one at fault there.

I believe it should be the same for dogs. If they have never shown any aggressive signs before in their life, then they suddenly do something, are you really the one at fault here?

Now there are stupid people who let aggressive dogs out, but that isn't all dogs. Dogs all have a hunting instinct whether you like it or not. Some it is more prominent than others. The sooner we accept that the better.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

furbabymum said:


> Speaking of aggressiveness my hugest pet peeve is Vet clinic animals. There is nothing worse than taking a sick dog into the vet and having to keep their 3 legged cat from getting eaten while waiting in the waiting room. Or when they have their own dogs running loose in the clinic. I'm ashamed to say that my dogs are not well socialized so strangers and other animals aren't welcome around them.


I so agree with you. 

I am lucky that my vet accommodates my dog as they know her well. I arrive on time, and they have a room ready that I can straight into. However I still leave her in the car a minute so I can walk into the clinic and confirm this and let little granny know that her dog on a pink leash that's 5' away from her, should probably be at her side when I come in (you know like using the leash). I have been told 'oh my Fido is very friendly' - right sweetpea, but your Fido is about to be my dogs dinner. 

My dog is leashed, at my heel and muzzled, but she is still snarling, fur up, teeth showing and desperate to shred Fido limb from limb. 
Fido and his pink leash is usually picked up by grannie and held close at this point. 

But my dog who is touching my leg, never stops having body contact with my leg, or even tries to, is the horror. The grannies little poof of fluff who is 5' away from her, and if pulled hard the leash would likely be released is fine. I often see owners seated in an end chair with their dog at least 2' around the corner by the entrance door. 

It sucks that I can't walk my dog or have her in public because other people either don't leash or have the end of their leash in the next county. 



To me it's basic manners whether your dog is aggressive or not (and I have one who is everyone's best friend too, and had one before him). I am an animal lover and yet I like to take a look at a dog before it rushes over to me to see how it behaves, this is even more so with my foster kids. Keep your **** dog at your side no matter how friendly it is.


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## SarahAnn (Oct 22, 2011)

I was attacked by a golden retriever when I was a kid. Was that "big news?" No. Would it have been if it were a pit bull? Of course. Its racism with dogs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

AlexS said:


> I so agree with you.
> 
> I am lucky that my vet accommodates my dog as they know her well. I arrive on time, and they have a room ready that I can straight into. However I still leave her in the car a minute so I can walk into the clinic and confirm this and let little granny know that her dog on a pink leash that's 5' away from her, should probably be at her side when I come in (you know like using the leash). I have been told 'oh my Fido is very friendly' - right sweetpea, but your Fido is about to be my dogs dinner.
> 
> ...


oooo that soo irrtates me, we have lots of flex leads around here. >.< I would alwasy sit in the back corner of the weighting room with my dog inbetween my legs. These people just come in fluffy marshmellows on a string running all over the place. When my dog jumped out at her dog, she told ME to control my dog....EXCUSE ME!?!?!?!?! OH NO SHE DIDN'T!!!! :evil:


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Ehh, I don't have to worry about that..Because I do have a "vicious killer"Pitbull, when we go in the vets office everyone snatches their dog to them..Even as Chloe is standing between my legs on a tight leash with her tail wagging 90 miles an hour..My vet and his whole staff love and know Chloe so she always wants to go behind the counter and see the ladies..and because it's such a small town and every one knows every one anyway I usually just let go go behind the counter to the ladies and stand beside their door waiting on Chloe to come back around and stand with me...


It's also sad seeing all of the little fluffy crazy dogs chewing on their leashes and trying to run around under the chairs..My deaf Pitbull listens better than your fluffy rat on crack..


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## ModernThreat101 (Feb 3, 2012)

Just another story to put more heat on the breed. Dogs will always be the first loves of my life and it pains me to hear tales about one attack after another.

Packing domestic dogs are worse than a wild canine pack - they kill for the sheer thrill of it. Flocks of sheep and other ungulates are decimated every year from marauding packs of domestic dogs where ever we raise them. These dogs were ony doing what came naturally to them, and if they had a knowledgeable owner, she would have made efforts to adequately engage them so they'd have no true need to jump a six-foot fence. These animals may now be destroyed because their human is a nit-wit. Poor pony, but maybe they should have given the animal more space to run away and perhaps a companion guard animal (llama, geese, another equine...)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Oh come on guys, I have had Dobies and remember the stories about "when they get two years old, their brains swell and they attack their owners".. Oh lord, my Dobies were big mush faces. I have a German Shepherd and she does not fit the typical thought on German Shepherds, she is a sweet girl that loves everyone and everything. I have trained, shown , raised and bred dogs of many different breeds in my lifetime. I have worked for vets for 40 years and groom dogs professionally and the majority of bites I have suffered are from the little ankle biters that the owners do not want to correct and dicipline because it "might make them mad". .. AUGH
Now, to give everyone a big smile, our cats name is Bigfoot. Why? Because he has really big feet and really big pawprints, he has 24 toes..Check out his enormous feet...


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

wyominggrandma said:


> Oh come on guys, I have had Dobies and remember the stories about "when they get two years old, their brains swell and they attack their owners".. Oh lord, my Dobies were big mush faces. I have a German Shepherd and she does not fit the typical thought on German Shepherds, she is a sweet girl that loves everyone and everything. I have trained, shown , raised and bred dogs of many different breeds in my lifetime. I have worked for vets for 40 years and groom dogs professionally and the majority of bites I have suffered are from the little ankle biters that the owners do not want to correct and dicipline because it "might make them mad". .. AUGH
> Now, to give everyone a big smile, our cats name is Bigfoot. Why? Because he has really big feet and really big pawprints, he has 24 toes..Check out his enormous feet...


 
O.O WOAH THATS A LOT OF TOES!!!! 

Am I rembering correctly, that your daughters horse was attacked by horses? Or do I have the wrong member? It's all a blurry mess to me, I'm such a fail at remembering things


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Yes, you are remembering right, but my daughters horse was attacked by dogs, not horses... lol... 
Not trying to make light of the situation, she was a full sized mare, attacked by two dogs,pulled down and mangled, took months and months to heal, she was never the same.Dogs were not put down,the owners did not have to pay a dime... dogs continued to run loose. Actually, these same dogs ran the mare again and again until someone shot them. This was in Nevada.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Oh my God! That is the most amazing cat ever! His feet are SOOO cool! What does your vet think made his feet like that?? 


WG, that is ridiculous..I don't even know what else to say except that the owners would have had a BAD day when I got done with them.


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

wyominggrandma said:


> Yes, you are remembering right, but my daughters horse was attacked by dogs, not horses... lol...
> Not trying to make light of the situation, she was a full sized mare, attacked by two dogs,pulled down and mangled, took months and months to heal, she was never the same.Dogs were not put down,the owners did not have to pay a dime... dogs continued to run loose. Actually, these same dogs ran the mare again and again until someone shot them. This was in Nevada.


lol I think I win best typo of the night! :lol:

Some people are idiots. I'm sad to know that the dogs had to be shot, but I would have done the same.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

I have personally had one dog killing experience. It was when I raised 19 chuckers. If you wonder what a chucker is, they look like this: 









They had just reached adulthood when I found out that a neighbor's dog and her puppies had other plans for my birds. The cage was forcefully broken into, the birds were gone, dead bodies all over the yard. Total massacre and carnage My husband dug a big hole and buried the birds we found, a day or two later, the same dogs were back digging up the mass bird grave. They were chased off the property again.

Three of my faithful birds returned alive to their home. I was so happy, they just came home and happily rested on their perches in the barn. I closed off outside access to their safe room in the barn. A week later, the dogs once again returned, broke in again and got the last three chuckers. :evil:

The owner of the dogs had no apologies, infact they said, "it couldn't have been our dogs, our chickens got eaten too!" :shock: The town is too small to not know whose dog is on your property. A hers was also the only one running around with her young ones, and happened to have mysteriously escaped on each day my chuckers were attacked. :?

How stupid/ignorant can you be? No idea how your dogs keep running around town when they were supposedly tied up, you have no fence to keep them on your property, you live in a town with strict dogs laws to keep dogs from running around loose, your dogs liked how your chickens tasted so they found some more nearby. 

That is my rant, paid out $100 to feed the neighbor's dogs some nice game birds :evil:

Anyways, if you are wondering about the dog breed, they were yellow labs and they liked fresh poultry... They may not be posing a danger to children, but if they killed anyone's poultry/rabbits/livestock outside the very small town, they could and would be shot on sight. The laws in the area allow for it, and the farmers aren't going to tolerate a dog killing or even harassing their animals, even if all the fault is with the owner of the dog. 

I grew up with black labs, loved them, they were well trained. My dad's favorite lab was Ebony, and she was the perfect size to try and ride when I was a toddler. Though she usually just sat down after a while. She was never trained to hunt, and when my parents got ducks and chickens, some of her natural instincts kicked in. She caught one of the ducks and kept it on the front porch, waiting for my parents to claim her "prize". The duck, believe it or not, stood on the porch completely unharmed, and was released non the worse for wear. Ebony was very gentle, learned to leave the birds alone and never hurt any of them. Sweet girl, not a mean bone in her body and didn't have a blood lust. 

Just like all animals, each dog is born with a natural disposition. Some are can be absolute nutcases, no matter what their breed. I had a dwarf siberian hamster that I "released into the wild" after it was mauling/killing its litter mates. Sounds cruel, but it was summer and I did give him some food in the stump in the horse pasture. It was the only dwarf hamster I ever had that acted that way, they are normally a friendly community kind of hamster. If I had sent him to a pet store, he would have been put in with more hamsters to kill. He just wasn't right in the head, and any animal, no matter the species, is capable of turning into cold killers. 

Several years ago, there was a small miniature horse farm that I used to drive past frequently. One winter day, a pack of small to medium sized stray dogs, all mutts, broke into the barn, into the stalls, killed and mauled most of the miniatures that were trapped in stalls that were protecting them from the winter elements. Many of the mares were pregnant. The dogs made the headlines in the paper, all were PTS, and the devestated horse owners never got another horse, for fear it would happen again.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

I have a 100lb BullMastiff and don't own a leash for him. If we go to the feed store, the girl there will toss me a piece of baling twine but other than that, I never leash him. 

Your nasty dog is YOUR problem, not mine and I should not have to remove my dog from a waiting room, just so you can walk through. Mine isn't going to get up, he is terrified of practically everything and stays right next to me. If you cannot control your dog, you have no business owning it. Mine is well-behaved and well-socialized because I took the time and effort to train him. He hated cats but found out VERY quickly that going after the neighbor's or any other cat would absolutely not be tolerated and he has never tried chasing or getting near one again. Sorry, but there is no excuse for a dog who is growling, snapping and dragging it's owner behind in an attempt to go kill another animal. 

My Vet obviously has no issues with my unleashed dog... after his last surgery he felt sorry for him having to be in a kennel, tossed a dog bed behind the desk and let him keep the receptionist company all afternoon.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

I will admit to playing on the "vicious Pitbull" nerve before...My Dad has a really good friend who is this supposedly "hard gangsta" who drag races with my dad, he's known me my whole life..So right after I get Chloe this big buff mean looking black guy comes over and picks on me calling me a "Skinny little white girl with a big mouth"..This arguing goes back and forth in good fun for a few minutes...Chloe comes around the corner of the house, he sees her and runs to his truck like a scared little girl...I am dying laughing, crying laughing so hard at this 300lb 6'5" man running from a 9 month old 20lb puppy.
I finally talk him into getting out of the truck and petting her and now he likes her but keeps an eye on her..I still mess with him about it and when he's over at the house I'll tell Chloe "Watch him, get him" and it scares him to death and he yells at me "Amber, stop man, that ain't funny"..Even though he KNOWS she's DEAF. She can't hear a word I am saying to her and just sits there.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Delf, are you responding to my vet experiences? 

If so, you wouldn't need to move your dog, or do anything at all, as your dog is at your side and under control. 
My nasty dog is my problem as long as everyone else's dogs are not at the far end of a 5' leash while the owner is oblivious or just brain dead. When their friendly but uncontrolled dog is at my feet - then it becomes their problem. 

You are the dog owner that I want to meet, my dog is at my side (nasty with it, but she doesn't leave my side) and your dog is at your side. I would be thrilled with this at the vets office, general park or wherever we would meet. 

I have never and would never ask for a dog to be removed from a waiting room so I could walk through - I feel however it is reasonable to ask that owners are with their dogs not several feet away from them. 



Delfina said:


> Your nasty dog is YOUR problem, not mine and I should not have to remove my dog from a waiting room, just so you can walk through.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Roperchick said:


> nah snizard, i like em too and they can be some of the sweetest, smartest dogs. imo it just depends on handling, just like horses theres good and bad and it depends on how you treat them and train em. i doubt those dogs have any sort of obedience training....
> 
> what i dont get is how the owners are fighting to keep them alive but arent claiming them....its not gonna stop the case it just makes them look worse that they wont even claim their own dogs.....


PBs are a banned dog in the UK so I have not had a lot to do with them other than ones I have met in the USA. Those have all been wonderful dogs, well trained, exercised and cared for. 
Unfortunately there are always idiot owners that have a 'tough' breed of dog as a status symbol and should horrific events happen like this then the people should be heavily fined and banned from ever having any dog again for life.


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## WildAcreFarms (Apr 6, 2011)

I have bred and shown dogs almost since i could walk. Have dealt with a LOT of pit bulls over the years. My opinion is that they are dangerous. They will occasionally attack children and will OFTEN attack other dogs and other animals. they are BULL dogs and they are HARD WIRED to prey drive. I don't think that you can really train or breed that out of them. I have seen some HORRIBLE truly grizzley dog fights where two pit bulls turned on another dog that was previously that dogs best friend. All it takes is two dogs competing for the same toy , ball stick and it's ON. If you add that to the fact that many folks that buy and breed them are first time dog owners it's a recipe for disaster IMO. I don't dislike the breed but i do think that for many reasons they are dangerous. My best friend volunteered at the NOLA animal shelter and has been attacked while cleaning the cages of pit bulls more than once. 
I believe that they are Dangerous animals. My work with them over the years has made a believer out of me. It's sad because they are a beautiful and majestic breed.


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## christabelle (Feb 13, 2011)

I had a Pitt bull for about two years. I found him dumped on the side of the road as a little puppy. I used to leave him at the farm where I boarded my horse when I was underway for short times. After he started snapping at the horses that stopped. When my friend was house sitting, he took my dog back to the farm when he went to ride his horse. My dog attacked and killed a pigmy goat and my BO shot him. I made a mistake by not making it clear that he was not to go to the farm anymore. I don't think they are a bad breed, but they need to be owned by people who understand them. It was heartbreaking to lose my dog, but I will never get another pit bull. Their prey drive is just to high. I felt awful for everyone involved. I should have been more responsible and more clear to my friend. It was my fault, even though I was not there. I, however, did not get mad at my BO. She was well within her rights to kill him. I also reimbursed her for the cost of the goat. These owners need to take responsibility for what they have done as well IMO.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SmallTownGypsy (Dec 17, 2011)

AlexS said:


> Delf, are you responding to my vet experiences?
> 
> If so, you wouldn't need to move your dog, or do anything at all, as your dog is at your side and under control.
> My nasty dog is my problem as long as everyone else's dogs are not at the far end of a 5' leash while the owner is oblivious or just brain dead. When their friendly but uncontrolled dog is at my feet - then it becomes their problem.
> ...


I so agree with this! Taking my aggressive Aussie to the vet was a nightmare just because of people letting their animals roam. I had to pick a corner until there was no one around the desk so I could check in. Then find a spot where no one else was sitting. Zona stayed between my legs with a very short leash. If anyone started to come my way, I did warn them and they would go to the other side of the waiting room. (Luckily it was a big clinic with a big waiting room.) He did scare two little kids who went running across the waiting room. He jumped up with a growl and they went cowering back to their mom. Some dumb *** guy had a little dog, saw me, said to his dog, "Wanna go see the big dog?" He was at the check in desk and the receptionist answered before I even could saying, "That dog does NOT like other dogs or people. He is VERY aggressive." Getting this information the guy then starts staring at my dog and trying to get a rise of out of him. Luckily, I'm not a moron and told him to please stop because I didn't need a bad situation made worse. :evil: I hate STUPID people!


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## furbabymum (Dec 28, 2011)

Yup yup. I recently took my St B in and there was a lady with a little pup. My St was laying at my feet as instructed. He's very patient but will explode when pushed too far. This dog was whining and barking and trying to get to my dog. Finally my St had enough, he picked his head up looked that dog in the eyes and growled. He's a big dog so his growl is scary ****. That woman restrained her dog after that. lol I've never had an attack and I keep my dogs well under control but I'm constantly worried that someone else won't with devastating results.


AlexS said:


> I so agree with you.
> 
> I am lucky that my vet accommodates my dog as they know her well. I arrive on time, and they have a room ready that I can straight into. However I still leave her in the car a minute so I can walk into the clinic and confirm this and let little granny know that her dog on a pink leash that's 5' away from her, should probably be at her side when I come in (you know like using the leash). I have been told 'oh my Fido is very friendly' - right sweetpea, but your Fido is about to be my dogs dinner.
> 
> ...


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## furbabymum (Dec 28, 2011)

I would love to see you at the vet. I myself don't really need to use my leash, it's for my animals protection. My dogs are well behaved and stay behind me. If everyone's dog was like that the vet office would be nothing at all to me. However everyone always things their animals need to come meet mine. That tiny **** dog bites my big one and it won't stand a snowballs chance in hell.
The cats are just a bad idea in general around my hunting dogs. Any small animal is a bad idea around them. It gets close enough for them to grab and they'll grab it. So, having a vet office with a loose cat that the vet office told me senses when other dogs doesn't like it and gravitates toward them, is hell for me. Getting them to stay seated with that thing parading before them is HARD!


Delfina said:


> I have a 100lb BullMastiff and don't own a leash for him. If we go to the feed store, the girl there will toss me a piece of baling twine but other than that, I never leash him.
> 
> Your nasty dog is YOUR problem, not mine and I should not have to remove my dog from a waiting room, just so you can walk through. Mine isn't going to get up, he is terrified of practically everything and stays right next to me. If you cannot control your dog, you have no business owning it. Mine is well-behaved and well-socialized because I took the time and effort to train him. He hated cats but found out VERY quickly that going after the neighbor's or any other cat would absolutely not be tolerated and he has never tried chasing or getting near one again. Sorry, but there is no excuse for a dog who is growling, snapping and dragging it's owner behind in an attempt to go kill another animal.
> 
> My Vet obviously has no issues with my unleashed dog... after his last surgery he felt sorry for him having to be in a kennel, tossed a dog bed behind the desk and let him keep the receptionist company all afternoon.


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## furbabymum (Dec 28, 2011)

I obviously mean beside.


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## nuisance (Sep 8, 2011)

We take our pit with us to flea markets, swap meets and such. He's always a gentleman, and LOVES any attention coming his way. I've had people, ask if they can pet, we say yes, they love all over him, then ask what kind of dog he is. We say "pit bull", they panic and run. He was a beautiful friendly dog, until they heard that word "pit bull" then all of a sudden they think he's a killer. 
Since he's so tall and slender, no everyone realilzes he's a pit, unless they are pit owners themselves.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Bigfoot is polydactal, a genetic mutation. Lots of polydactyl cats out there but they usually don't have extra toes on each foot. Twenty four is quite rare. He is a cool cat, as you can tell.

We have a sign at the clinic on the door when you walk in. All dogs must be on lieash, all cats must be in a box or carrier. Its a small clinic with only one waiting room.So, typical idiot dog owners come in with the dog off leash even with other dogs in the room, the dog proceeds to start lifting its leg or getting aggressive to others on leash. No leash, no collar, just the typical "farm" dog. We say, please put the dog on a leash". Their response is, oh he doesn't need a leash. We walk over and hand them a leash or put it on ourselves.
I have had to break up more fights in the waiting room because of ignorant owners... when the fighting starts, owners usually drop the leash and start saying" oh my oh my"...Or they walk in holding a cat in their arms, cat sees dogs, starts frantically getting away, cat scratches/bites owner, gets away and then we have to chase said cat to catch it, while dogs are trying to eat it. 
Dogs, all dogs, out in public need to be on a leash or in total control by their owners, sitting at their feet and not moving or making a sound. More power to you if your dog can go anywhere off leash and you feel you have total 100%control of your dog in any situation. However, one thing you must remember, in most states there are leash or control laws out in public or in public places. So, even if your dog is 100% in control and the dog in the waiting room or at the feed store or walking down the street is on a leash, a dog or even a child still approaches your dog, dragging the owner/parent behind or the clueless owner who says" my dog is friendly,it just wants to play" or" my child knows how to approach a dog" and your dog attacks the dog or bites the child, you and only you will be liable for the vet/doctor bills . Your dog is off leash and telling a judge that "oh your honor, my dog is 100% under control at all times" won't cut it when another dog or child is injured. I applaud all those who say, with pride, my dog is 100% reliable all the time and walk around without a leash, however, when it does happen, you have no leg to stand on, even if its a child or another dog. 
The only way to 100% control any dog is keep in in a fenced yard or on a leash.
These pit bulls were loose and killed a pony. All dogs can bite, and alot done by pit bulls are the result of a breed of dog that is bred to "chase" and hang on to its prey. It didn't use to be that "prey" were other dogs or humans, but the pitbulls that are causing these type of horrendous attacks are from typical idiots who have weeded out the "nice" type of Pit Bull and bred and bred the dangerous ones and proceed to keep genetically breeding dangerous Pit Bulls, until all that is left are the nasty ones.
I have handled AKC American Stafforshire Terriers(AmStaffs) in the show ring, they are bred to be show dogs and genetically bred to be companion animals. They can have twenty in the ring at one time and if you see an aggressive one, they are usually excused and removed from competition and the good breeders remove them from their breeding program and carefully pick and choose who they are sold to, they care about their breed and therefore are not cheap and seen in every newspaper, posted on boards or sold to anyone who have the money.
Pit Bulls, bred very openly are easy to obtain and cheap and are the ones most often seen in pounds, they are not registered, they are not genetically bred for good dispositions, they are bred to fight and attack what moves.When you see an advertisement for "red or blue nose Pit Bulls" you can bet they are not AmStaffs, but backyard PitBulls without a care of genetics, just to breed "bad dogs".
There are good and bad in both breeds, however, they are genetically predisposed to fight and hang on, that is why they do so much damage and one alone is usually okay, when you get two or more, the pack mentality shows up and horrible results happen.Its not just pit bulls, but lets face it folks, the vision of pit bulls being walked with huge chains on them,being shown off to be "bad", being chained to dog houses with chains, the "bad " mentality of the gangs and bad boys wanting to show how tuff they are, that is what you see.That is what is shown. Don't see too many poodles being walked on chains in the bad parts of town or chained up in the back of trucks do you?


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## MisssMarie (Jan 31, 2012)

I worked with my local shelter for 2 years. They used to immediately euthanize any pitties. I finally convinced them to give them a chance after they killed an entire litter of puppies! I've been bit a million times by little dogs. None of the pitties have, even the 'vicious' ones they euthanized. I've been bit by labs, JRT, chihuahuas, and more but never once by a pittie - even the abused one that we got only loved on us
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

The general problem with Pit bulls is the fact they can be extremely animal aggressive. Maybe love people, but hate other animals and therefore tend to do horrific injury to other animals when given the remotest chance.
The other problem is the fact that most Pit Bull owners, when faced with the fact that their dog/dogs killed an animal(or attacked a human)will instead of being totally sorry for what their dog has done, they start making excuses, start loudly complaining that their "perfect" pitbull didn't do this, the pony died first" or the person it attacked looked at it wrong" or whatever excuse they want to use instead of fessing up and admitting they are **** poor dog owners who have no control and let their dogs run wild. Watched Peoples Court the other day. Lady brought her neighbor to court because their dog had attacked their poodle in the ladies yard. Neighbor said" well, the dog got out because someone opened the gate.. the dog got out because my 18 year old daughter forgot to watch him. My dog got out because its what dogs do.". It was a Pit Bull, it almost killed the poodle and the lady would not take one bit of responsibility and showed no remorse for her dog attacking another dog. 
I am very very against dogs biting humans for any reason. Any reason at all(barring injury and dog is biting because it is in pain). I will not allow, nor have I ever allowed my dogs to guard their food, toys, house, tell me who can and can't come into my home, etc. I will euthanize a dog for biting a human.I don't have dogs that bite, not at the vets,not at the groomers, not at a dog show, not in my home. If more people would not allow dogs to bite, then you would see less and less of dogs attacking humans. No excuses, a dog should not bite a human. (I am not talking about police dogs, they are trained only to bite on command and live with their families when not on patrol)I am tired of seeing and dealing with people who know their dogs bite and seem to feel its okay,they let them run their lives instead of the dog being a part of their lives.


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## nuisance (Sep 8, 2011)

Any animal can be animal aggressive. We had a black lab/golden retriever mix, that was horribly animal aggressive, he was 150lbs in his prime. My 80 lb pit hasn't found an animal he's aggressive to yet...(except the stray cats he sees thru the door)


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

yes and if he could he would go outside your door and kill the stray cats. 
So, he is animal aggressive by your own words.
Any dog can be animal aggressive, but Pit Bulls are bred to chase and hold and and kill their prey.. it is in their genetic makeup.


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## nuisance (Sep 8, 2011)

wyominggrandma said:


> yes and if he could he would go outside your door and kill the stray cats.
> So, he is animal aggressive by your own words.
> Any dog can be animal aggressive, but Pit Bulls are bred to chase and hold and and kill their prey.. it is in their genetic makeup.


Your right, I contradicted myself..... He's protective of his own. When we are out, he doesn't meet an animal he doesn't want to play with. 

ALL dogs genetic makeup go back to wild dogs who HUNT to live.... can't do anything about it!


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

^ Exactly.

Hell the nastiest dogs I've ever met was a pack of dachshunds. Everyone thinks because they're little they are harmless.

I will never forget the day I walked into a friends house (she raises dachshunds) and a cat ran in. That pack of dachshunds had it plum torn apart in no less than fifteen seconds.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

nuisance said:


> Your right, I contradicted myself..... He's protective of his own. When we are out, he doesn't meet an animal he doesn't want to play with.
> 
> ALL dogs genetic makeup go back to wild dogs who HUNT to live.... can't do anything about it!


 Yes,that is true, but it is up to us, as humans to make sure the "wild" pack instinct is controlled and the dog is under control at all times.. Especially the breeds that are bred to do exactly what they do when they attack and kill animals and humans.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

Yes,that is true, but it is up to us, as humans to make sure the "wild" pack instinct is controlled and the dog is under control at all times.. Especially the breeds that are bred to do exactly what they do when they attack and kill animals and humans. 

Thoroughly agree. This is why responsible breeders, do not breed animals with iffy or aggressive temperaments. 

In the early '60's, PBs were first becoming known to the general public. A TV show, did an hour programme, with a fellow in Alabama who was at the time, breeding an enormous number of the breed. ALL for the fighting trade. Asked how he judged his dogs' abilities, he said he would pit youngsters (puppies) against each other. Those showed the fighting instinct were kept, the others were killed and not in a nice way either. 

Gradually over the years, many of his dogs and dogs of other breeders like him, got sold or given out to the public. These dogs were bred for aggression. They ended up in the hands of people who had absolutely no idea how to handle a highly aggressive breed. Thousands ended up as fighting dogs and their descendants are still around today. Many as supposed, household pets. Their fighting and aggressive instincts are still very close to the surface, should something kick in that aggression. Whether it be an animal or small child running and screaming while playing. Children unfortunately, by the very nature of their activities, can turn on an aggressive dog in a second and often one who previously, might have never shown aggression.

Whatever the breed, large or small, and especially known high prey breeds, all have the propensity to do damage to another animal or human. It is up to the owner, to never, ever, allow a dog to escape and run loose and if in public, to have the dog under control (and that _does_ mean a leash/lead) at all times. 

I don't want to hear from those who say their dogs are never leashed but stay by the owner's side at all times. Nobody can know that. There is a very good reason why highly trained police and military dogs are leashed, until given the word to go to work at a particular task. 

Lizzie


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

SmallTownGypsy said:


> Getting this information the guy then starts staring at my dog and trying to get a rise of out of him. Luckily, I'm not a moron and told him to please stop because I didn't need a bad situation made worse. :evil: I hate STUPID people!



I too have experienced the 'let's prove to everyone what a man I am' syndrome. It brings out the fight instinct in me worse than my dog. 

Kindly go away Sir. Prove your manhood to someone who might be interested in your body parts. 

I have also experienced from females, the type who think they can love something into being fixed because they are such a nurturing little buttercup.

People are amazing. Just when you think you have seen the most stupid thing possible, someone else will come along and trump it.


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## kiwigirl (Sep 30, 2009)

furbabymum said:


> Funny you said that. Our viz is the same. I've been in the vet a few times because you could honestly see every single bone in his body. The vet was even shocked to see him. You'd think he was a severe abuse case. The amazing thing is he was getting 6 coffee cups of nutra max and a can of wet dog food. Just could not put weight on him. He's still super skinny though a lot less so now. He's super old though at 12. Not that you would be able to tell from how he acts.
> Oh, yours super clingy too? I once heard Viszla were nicknamed velcro dogs. He most certainly is that.
> View attachment 88801
> 
> View attachment 88803


Yes, Sargeant definitely suits the title velcro dog. He always has to be touching you, not in an intrusive, pushy way. He will lie on our feet, when he sits he leans on us, when we call him to us he leans right into our legs. Out hunting, sitting or lying anywhere and he has to be on top of you in some way. His perfect situation would be sitting on my knee, unfortunately he is too big to be a lap dog!


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