# my horse and his navicular



## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

I don't think I'd be jumping a horse with Navicular, or any other taxing type of riding/discipline. Other than that I don't agree with shoeing and wedging a heel up to treat navicular symptoms. Just sayin.. There have been great strides made with correct barefoot trimming(not just pasture trims) in horses with similar diagnosis'..


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## IquitosARG10 (Aug 27, 2011)

I just had the vet out last week to do xrays because I suspected navicular. He was clear BUT I did a lot of research beforehand. I agree you definitely need to have correct trimming and I think that adding bar shoes is a good idea along with the the trims, HOWEVER, it's imperative that the farrier is trimming him correctly. Did your horse have shoes before? Incorrect shoeing, a lot of times, causes caudal heel pain bc the shoes are too short in the back. But I definitely agree with Appyt that I would no be jumping him. There is a horse at my barn who had it and is jumping 3 ft now...I would give your horse a long recovery time and have xrays done again before you even think about putting him over fences...it adds even more force onto their front feet and he could potentially be in a great deal of pain, and it could undo all the work you've put into it thus far.


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## New_image (Oct 27, 2007)

My thoughts exactly Appy. 

jrcci - I admire your devotion to keep going with him, hang in there. I am not a navicular expert but did have a horse with navicular. I think you can make him a comfortable trail horse. Jumping seems to be tempting fate. My vet really pushed for a bar shoe and pads as well but I found an a great barefoot alternative and have been trimming horses myself since. (NOT suggesting you run out and trim him yourself, I am suggesting a good barefoot farrier.)


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## jrcci (Apr 28, 2011)

i had him barefoot for a year. with a good farrier. i since changed farriers who is better with shoes. my farrier is great. he does a great job. right after he put the shoes on wheni started riding him a few days later i was just barely off. i could only fell him being off when we went down a little hill or if he turned sharp and wasnt very collected. as far as jumping him... i am barley jumping him. and i can tell when his limits are. mainly the only person who is riding him is my little sister who i am trying to teach to ride and she is going to show him next season. but anyways she just started to trot him over poles and it will probably be nothing then over 2ft. i can see when my horse has reached his limits and trust me i am not going to push him. as far as everyone saying i should do barefoot. i did for a year. he actually got worse. here is the thing with navicular... it depends on the horse. it depends how bad their navicular is, how long they have had it, their conformation, and their body weight. there are many factors that can effect the horses navicular. once i feel that he is at the point where he cant jump i will stop but its not like he is jumping 3 ft i wouldnt do that to him


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## IquitosARG10 (Aug 27, 2011)

I phrased it wrong, I meant it in a good way!! The horse at my barn is doing so awesome that they ARE able to jump him 3 feet and he's doing wonderfully! Just being optimistic for you


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Barefoot is definitely not the answer for all navicular horses. I may very well help some, but depending on exactly what is going on and how advanced the syndrome is, barefoot can actually be quite harmful. Every horse is an individual, and if your vet and farrier are experienced in this regard, I would trust their judgment (with the caveat that not all vets and farriers ARE qualified, and it's best to look at their track record in treating similar horses as well as their general experience, knowledge, and openness to trying new things if the current protocol is not working). Are they having you put any kind of cushioning pad underneath the bar shoe? That may or may not help, but again, they've seen and know the horse.

I would also caution you against jumping, unless you have the vet's 100% approval (and s/he is not of the mindset that "horses are for using, so use them up," as many vets are). Since your horse requiries maintenance to maintain an adequate level of soundness, I would really think that concussive riding force like this may not be the best idea.

Bute, giving a gram or two a day long term, is definitely not ideal, but it's also unlikely to all that harmful, particularly with an aged horse. Weigh the costs and benefits. _Many_ horses are on daily bute, and live that way for years.

Other options to look at, should the necessity arise, are joint supplements, coffin bone injections, navicular bursa injections, Adequan/Legend, or Tildren.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

One other thing to talk about with your farrier is backing up his toe so he breaks over quicker. Those natural balance shoes are good for that. If your farrier is good enough with shaping shoes, he can do that with a regular shoe and save you a fair bit of money. My old guy Flash was diagnosed as a 5 year old but with meticulous hoof care, he went on sound for riding until he was 23 (and it was arthritis that got him, not Navicular).


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## jrcci (Apr 28, 2011)

bubba, yes he has leather full pads on. and the vet did give me approval to jump him. and i know he will not necessarily be able to jump like he used to and i am accepting that fact.

smrobs, im glad to hear about your navicular horse being able to have a great life!

and my vet is great. his name is Dr. William Lukens if anyone wants to know. (were in ohio) he is great i reccomend him to everyone. he specializes in lameness. he is very familiar with navicular as well as my farrier, Scott Gregory who has had alot of success with navicular horses

some sad news.

today i went to do my evening feed. it was around 8pm and it was starting to get dark. i had wanted to ride but i was running late. as usual. some of the other boarders were at the barn standing outside with the horses. and they had noticed that my horse (junior) was stopping at the flies alot and that when he stompped his right foot he would "wheeze" so i led him around and watched him walk and at the walk i didnt see anything too alarming. then i checked to make sure that his shoe wasnt loose. it wasnt.so then i got on him to trot and he took one trot step. i immediatley got off. i could tell he was really really lame. i led him back into the barn and felt for heat and pulse. he had a strong pulse in his right and a light one in the left. he cannot be abcessing because of the full pads on his shoes, right??? he had a little heat in his front right but nothing to bad considering he was out moving around. 

and he has not been ridden in four days so he cant be sore... or atleast that sore and have it be 4 days later.

the only thing i can think of is abcess, or his navicular is flaring up. if he is still in that much pain tomorrow when i get out of school i will be calling the vet.

let me know why u think its flaring up.
thanks


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Could be an abscess, or thrush, even. A strong pulse sorta sounds like an abscess (or laminitis, which seems unlikely).

I guess Scott Gregory doesn't have any relationship to Chris Gregory?


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

The egg bars & pads & a great farrier made my navicular mare 100% sound. If she threw a front shoe, she was lame in 2 days. I learned to duct tape it on until the farrier came. Even rode her with the duct tape shoe repair.


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## jrcci (Apr 28, 2011)

umm im not sure i will ask when he comes next. thrush cant make him this lame. especially since its unbelievably dry at my barn. there is no way he is foundering we have NO grass. but can he still abcess with a full pad on. it covers the entire bottom of his foot. nothing can get in....


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Could have been brewing for awhile. Could have bruised it on a rock through the pad. Just trying to ease your mind. Hell, if you want to go worst-case scenario, could be a fracture or something awful with the navicular. But the point is you won't know for sure without having the vet/farrier out.


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## jrcci (Apr 28, 2011)

yes i think that is what im going to have to do. im sorta just thinking negative because everything seems to go wrong with my horse and to top it off i have had a terrible week and this just was the icing on the cake. i got the the barn saw him move and i just broke down. its like really cant we get a break...?


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

And, well, I have two horses like that. Neither is currently rideable, one definitely never will be again, neither responds meaningfully to any sort of treatment (no matter how expensive--we're well over halfway to the five-digit mark and counting now), high-tech, or generally-considered effective), and I'm afraid I'll have to euthanize the one before too long. More bad news every day. It sucks, but it's life.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Firstly, there are a few different approaches to 'navicular' and just because it's my opinion that your horse would be better off unshod(not necc. bare tho), I am not expecting or wanting you to take my word for it, but I think it's important for you to do some research & look at the pros & cons of different approaches & what they entail, rather than just heeding one opinion or following one approach without understanding.



jrcci said:


> i had him barefoot for a year.


Just keeping a horse bare in a nice paddock is not going to help him develop strong heels. In fact it could further weaken them, through lack of use. Creating strong hooves is not the same as pulling shoes & sticking them out for a year's 'rest'.



> wheni started riding him a few days later i was just barely off.


Yes, that's one of the 'pros' of conventional care - it is a palliative treatment that does tend to make the horse more comfortable quickly. It does tend to be short lived though, and as the hoof becomes more compromised, shoes become eggbars, eggbars become wedges, etc, to acheive the same degree of relief. 

Conventional methods tend to be about managing the palliative care - helping reduce symptoms - of a 'disease' that was seen as an incurable death sentence until relatively recently. If you would like to look into what can actually be done to help the horse become sound, you generally need to look farther afield than conventional wisdom. hoofrehab.com & the links in my signature will give you more info on some stuff.



> i am barley jumping him. and i can tell when his limits are.


Yeah perhaps usually, but helping him to be comfortable in shoes can also mean that the lesser symptoms are masked and you may not know his 'limits' until damage is done. I agree with others who have said best not to jump him at all, at least until his feet become stronger.



> here is the thing with navicular... it depends on the horse. it depends how bad their navicular is, how long they have had it, their conformation, and their body weight. there are many factors that can effect the horses navicular.


That's a great start that you understand those factors. Yes, for eg an old horse with well advanced degeneration and lameness may not be able to return to soundness, so palliative care in the form of special shoes may then be best to keep him more comfortable for as long as possible, but horses can be rehabilitated and develop strong, sound caudal feet with the right approach. Dr Robert Bowker is one great source to look into, as he's done so much research on this subject.

Bodyweight is an interesting point for you to bring up, because it seems that is a huge part of the issue - due to general management and environment, many horses just don't develop the rear of their feet as they mature. Therefore the structure that was perfectly sufficient in supporting them as a foal is just not up to the weight of a grown horse impacting on it. Boots with padded frog support can be a great answer - providing protection, support and softness, to allow the horse to use his weak feet comfortably, and with use, gradually developing their strength.


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## jrcci (Apr 28, 2011)

i did try the bare foot. its not like i put him to pasture and just left him. he was cared for atleast twice a day. he has been on hoof supplements for years and years trying to get his feet stronger. he just has crappy feet. which makes him not a good candidate for barefoot. as i mentioned before i did keep him barefoot. i understand people think that barefoot is a great solution. im sure it is, but its not for my horse. it doesnt work. i would have loved for barefoot to work it would save me 100 dollars every month and a half. but i have to do what is best for my horse. and for him the best thing is keeping shoes on him and keeping him medicated.

i do understand that there are many approaches to treating navicular. that is why i have tried barefoot and it didnt work so not im doing shoes. im open to trying anything. ill do whatever it takes. im 17 and work my butt off to pay for this horse. i will do whatever it takes to keep him comfortable.

i am going to look at hoofrehab.com like you suggested and will talk to my farrier and vet and see what we can try next.


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

Did you have a barefoot trimmer? Not someone who shoes horses, but someone who is dedicated to correct barefoot trimming. There is a huge difference. My trimmer has rehabbed horses who suffered from navicular, founder, etc. It may take booting and pads as well as loosie mentioned to rehab the hoof. It also may take a long time depending on the severity of the problem and the horse, of course. Please don't jump a horse who's hooves are compromised. Shouldn't barrel race, cut cows, rope, etc.. I'm not picking on jumping. Nothing that will cause undo stress on the hoof as it heals. Exercise is great, but not the hard concussion stuff.

Best to you in your search for the right solution.. Glad you are open to researching.


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## jrcci (Apr 28, 2011)

i will not jump him anymore. i cannot even ride him right now. he is in alot of pain all of the sudden. i think he might have brusing in his feet. im going to have the farrier come out. i also looked at that hoofrehab.com and read the whole site and i was trying to find a farrier in my area and the closest one is 10 hours away! does anyone know and good barefoot trimmers in cincinnati ohio or any where close like northern kentucky??


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

I will ask around with a boot exchange group..


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

jrcci, I think you are in very good hands with your farrier and vet, and I'm sure that they are qualified to do the best possible for your horse's situation.


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## jrcci (Apr 28, 2011)

i agree as well. thanks for everything!


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## Horseman56 (Jul 25, 2011)

jrcci said:


> i will not jump him anymore. i cannot even ride him right now. he is in alot of pain all of the sudden. i think he might have brusing in his feet. im going to have the farrier come out.


Solar bruising, deep wall trauma and subsequent damage to sensitive laminae, sub-solar abscess, pedal osteitis, etc, etc, etc. The trouble could be any one of many pathologies or even a combination. Better to allow your vet make the diagnosis and your farrier to address what mechanical needs the horse may have. 



> i also looked at that hoofrehab.com and read the whole site and i was trying to find a farrier in my area and the closest one is 10 hours away! does anyone know and good barefoot trimmers in cincinnati ohio or any where close like northern kentucky??


Don't waste your time on the barefoot sites and don't even think about changing farriers. You might not get him back!

I can absolutely assure you these trimmers have no magic ju-ju, no cures for true navicular disease or any knowledge/skill beyond that of the average first month farrier student. Many of them do a great job of marketing and building websites but when the rubber meets the road and the horse needs real help, a trimmer has nothing to offer but... a trim. The rest is just lip service, rhetoric, limited anecdotal experience and nonsense.

I know your vet and your farrier. Both are extremely competent professionals.

Dr. Lukens at Lebanon Equine is about as good as they get in this area. Scott is definitely NOT your average, run-of-the-mill farrier. He is extremely skilled, very well educated and has a ton of experience working on high-end horses. He was the resident farrier at Paxton Farms (now the Majestic) for a lot of years. Scott does more CE in any single year than a barefoot trimmer will acquire in a lifetime. If Scott thought your horse was a good barefoot candidate, he would tell you so.

The last thing you want to do is "suggest" to Scott that he might want to try some new-age, all-natural, "physiologically correct", BS trim. Pete Ramey may razzle-dazzle the little girls with his website marketing and au-natural trims but even in his dreams he can't match skills with someone like Scott Gregory. I can promise you that Scott is already very familiar with the works of Ramey, Bowker and the rest of the barefoot elite.

Oh, and there's a reason why the closest barefoot trimmer you could find is some ten hours away. Supply and demand economics. There's limited, long term demand for inexperienced and often ineffectual practitioners, hence, limited supply.

You've got a great vet/farrier team. Stick with them, trust them and don't be swayed by the "Smiling Bob's" of the trimmer world. Doing so would serve only to muddy the waters and risk what performance opportunities your horse may have.

Cheers,
Mark


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Please don't use the words "supply," "demand," or "economics," Mark. You're reminding me of the very concepts on my upcoming, dreaded exam....

And jrcci, you didn't update with how your horse is doing today. Any change?


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## Horseman56 (Jul 25, 2011)

bubba13 said:


> Please don't use the words "supply," "demand," or "economics," Mark. You're reminding me of the very concepts on my upcoming, dreaded exam....


Sorry Bubba. It was my intent to offer a practical explanation. I suppose I could have simply quoted the oft' misquoted Barnum of Barnum & Bailey fame.

Tell Mal I said hello! :wink:

Cheers,
Mark


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

Yep great vet.. told her she could jump her navicular horse.. yep.. whatever..


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## jrcci (Apr 28, 2011)

yeah im not changing, i dont really wanna keep him barefoot. scott has junior's feet looking great. and. i love dr lukens. i went on a ride along with him one day this summer and it was really neat. anyways. i got junior out last night and trotted him. he is still lame but not as bad as the night before. this morning i did not have time to get him out and work him but i plan on it tonight and i will tell you if today he is getting better. and scott did mention pedal osteitis, i didnt really under stand when he explained it. can you ellaborate?

the shoes will be staying on him probably for his whole life time. once the shoes were put on i can tell he is much more comfortable.


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## Horseman56 (Jul 25, 2011)

Appyt said:


> Yep great vet.. told her she could jump her navicular horse.. yep.. whatever..


Let's see... the three lameness specialist veterinarians at Lebanon Equine Clinic have around 50 years of combined experience; Dr. Lukens owning some 30 years of that total. All of them earned and hold a Doctorate in Veterinary Medicine and routinely work with some of the best farriers in this area.

Dr. Lukens specializes in Show and Performance horses; Dr. Farwick in thoroughbred race horses; Dr. McNabb in Performance horses. Dr. McNabb has a long history of actually competing on horseback, was class President for four years and graduated with the honor of being recognized for "Excellence in Equine Medicine and Surgery". These guys work together and with farriers to benefit from their combined experience and knowledge.

The OP's farrier, Scott Gregory, has been practicing for some 20 years, routinely participates in continuing education, local and national competitions and has broad experience shoeing FEI dressage, hunter/jumper, reining, gaited and driving horses.

Ya think that between the veterinary practice and the professional farrier, they *might *just have a clue or two about the best interest of a clients horse, or should they call you for better advice?

What were your credentials and experience again? 

Cheers,
Mark


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Of course a conventional farrier won't mention barefoot as an option, since that is not his specialty, sorry. Barefoot trimmers will spend just as much time learning as any other farrier, since many of them will have been farriers prior to deciding to go toward barefoot. 

OP it should be YOUR choice what you decide to do with your horse, not someone else's, if you want to try another option, research it, and decide what you want to do. 

There is a horse at my barn who has navicular, and he was way better off before they started shoeing him...he is more lame now than he was prior. Now that could be because of how the farrier is going about shoeing, or that shoeing is just not what this horse needs to make him comfortable; I don't know the extent of his navicular. Go with what you feel your horse needs.


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## Horseman56 (Jul 25, 2011)

mom2pride said:


> Of course a conventional farrier won't mention barefoot as an option, since that is not his specialty, sorry.


You should be "sorry". What you assert is false and willfully misleading. In others words, it's a lie.

"Conventional" farriers (whatever the hell that is...) trim a LOT of horses to be left barefoot and absolutely WILL mention barefoot if the horse and it's intended use warrant that protocol.

What "specialty" are you referring to? The ability to meet the needs of every horse for whatever use that horse is intended? That's not a "specialty". That's a farrier. By contrast, all trimmers are "specialists". They specialize in severely limited service offerings. Trims and boots are all you'll find on the menu. If your horse happens to need something more... so sad, so sorry... no menu changes.



> Barefoot trimmers will spend just as much time learning as any other farrier, since many of them will have been farriers prior to deciding to go toward barefoot.


Nope, wrong again. Most trimmers have no where near the formal academics or hands-on training that even the most inexperienced farriers must possess. To suggest that "many of them will have been farriers prior" to their barefoot-only practice is silly. There are a few... very, very few. The majority have never shod a horse and couldn't do it if their life depended on it. You need to get out a bit more.



> OP it should be YOUR choice what you decide to do with your horse, not someone else's, if you want to try another option, research it, and decide what you want to do.


Yeah, that's right. She should ignore the counsel of a multi-vet practice specializing in equine lameness and the advice/service of a 20 year veteran farrier. Far better to pursue some barefoot guru's website because Sally says her friend knows someone who knows someone whose horse was lame and later cured by Barbie Barefoot the Wonder Trimmer. 

You DO understand that we're talking about the serious veterinary and farriery needs of someone's privately owned horse, right? It's not "fun and games" or "oh.. can I play too" time!



> There is a horse at my barn who has navicular, and he was way better off before they started shoeing him...he is more lame now than he was prior. Now that could be because of how the farrier is going about shoeing, or that shoeing is just not what this horse needs to make him comfortable; I don't know the extent of his navicular. Go with what you feel your horse needs.


Cripes.. thanks for making my point.

Cheers,
Mark


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

Mark, you are being extremely rude. All any of us are trying to do is help the op make the right decision for her horse. Stop attacking people for trying to help.. 

AND I will say it again. 

ANY VET WHO TELLS YOU TO SHOE YOUR NAVICULAR HORSE AND GO AHEAD AND JUMP HIM SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF HIM/HERSELF. Yep, just use em up and then get a new one.. Don't actually try to heal them.. Now, I'm done talking to you.


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## Horseman56 (Jul 25, 2011)

Appyt said:


> Mark, you are being extremely rude. All any of us are trying to do is help the op make the right decision for her horse. Stop attacking people for trying to help..


No, there was nothing rude at all about my response. What one may consider rudely arrogant and unconscionable is someone with little or no training advising another on the pathology treatment/needs of their horse in contrast to counsel provided by a team of highly qualified veterinarians and a well respected farrier.

Just because it's an internet forum does not justify irresponsible behavior. Do you often stand around hospitals suggesting to patients that they should seek out 'alternatives" to their surgeons counsel? What qualifies you to advise horse owners on the needs of a horse suffering degenerative navicular disease? How many such horses have you personally treated? What is your level of academic training and formal experience in such cases?

Let me guess... you're offended because someone who actually deals with cases like this on a routine basis has the temerity to challenge someone like you who has never had to take professional responsibility for the outcome. Nice.



> AND I will say it again.
> 
> ANY VET WHO TELLS YOU TO SHOE YOUR NAVICULAR HORSE AND GO AHEAD AND JUMP HIM SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF HIM/HERSELF. Yep, just use em up and then get a new one.. Don't actually try to heal them.. Now, I'm done talking to you.


Congratulations. You've exercised your First Amendment right to free speech. As is often the case, it's worth about what it cost.

I missed your answer. How many horses suffering some pathology of the distal limb have you personally been responsible for? Inquiring minds really want to know.

Cheers,
Mark


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Here we go again!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jrcci (Apr 28, 2011)

okay guys lets not make this into a big fight over barefoot v shoeing. that isnt what this post is all about.

everyone is entitled to their own opinion but this is not the place.

it is my decision as to what i think is best for my horse and for right now im saying that keeping him in shoes is working. when he was barefoot he was lame all the time. now with the shoes he is usually sound.
so im doing what is BEST for HIM and keeping shoes on him.you guys can fight over what you think is best all that you want.

i know that i am great hands with my farrier and my vet. they are both very well educated and trained. again, my choice as to who i use to help with my horse. please no one else suggest barefoot. i get it, it works for some navicular horse BUT NOT MINE. i tried it for a whole year and got absolutley no where. no if we can all just STOP fighting that would be GREAT because im sure everyone can atleast agree that they want what is best for my horse. doesnt everyone?


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## jrcci (Apr 28, 2011)

instead of arguing can you answer my question? can you explain pedal osteitis???


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

It's just inflammation of the coffin bone, in my understanding, from age and/or concussive force. I believe it's seen a lot in older athletic horses, and may or may not cause soundness issues.


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## jrcci (Apr 28, 2011)

okay. next time dr lukens comes out i will ask about that. but, when junior was diagnosed with navicular it was by x-ray. dr lukenscalled and told me that he saw navicular changes in his foot. junior is going on 15 and for most of his life he a was working competition horse, and was ridden alot even before i got him.


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

jrcci, I am not trying to tell you what to do. Just wanted to give you some options I don't think you know about. I am not going to argue with anyone. Not my style. 

Do the research, use Google and search for pedal osteitis.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

jrcci said:


> i did try the bare foot. ... which makes him not a good candidate for barefoot. as i mentioned before i did keep him barefoot. i understand people think that barefoot is a great solution.


Yes, and of course it's your choice what you do, but I wouldn't think just going bare was best either. As mentioned, there's a lot more to 'it' than just pulling the shoes, and also while I feel shoeless is better in these situations, I don't think bare is necessarily the way to go & it sounds like it's not in your case at the moment - sounds like he'd need more protection & support than his bare feet can give him for now. IOW, I probably wouldn't 'do the barefoot' yet at least, but I'd learn more about the biology & effects of different approaches before deciding how to proceed. Here's one good paper on the subject; http://www.grayson-jockeyclub.org/newsimages/910103000186_sm.pdf


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

jrcci said:


> instead of arguing can you answer my question? can you explain pedal osteitis???


Hi, it's inflammation of the sensitive structures of the pedal bone in conjunction with osteitis / demineralisation of the pedal bone. Interestingly, the way I understand it, the osteitis is pretty much the same as osteoporosis, but in the horse's pedal bone this condition is thought of as normal and only tends to get labled when there is a lameness, fracture or such.


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## jrcci (Apr 28, 2011)

okay. please dont say anything else about going barefoot or putting shoes on him. i dont wanna hear any more arguing. 

and thanks everyone for axplaining pedal osteitis. but what would be different in trating that rather than the navicular.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Presumably soft pads, like No Vibes, and then again anti-inflammatories. That would be my guess, anyway.


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## Horseman56 (Jul 25, 2011)

jrcci said:


> .. and thanks everyone for axplaining pedal osteitis. but what would be different in trating that rather than the navicular.


Presuming this is an academic exercise and not a diagnostic resultant treatment protocol recommendation (I'm a farrier, not a vet).... then,

Treatment of a horse diagnosed with navicular disease will focus attention on ease of dorsal breakover with caudal support and elevation intended to relieve tension on the deep digital flexor tendon. Typical shoeing protocol may include a wedged Morrison roller shoe a bar wedge pad attached to an bar or open heeled shoe.

The shoeing protocol specific to a horse suffering pedal osteitis (PO) may include a bar or egg-bar shoe, deep seated to provide solar relief or the addition of a concussion reducing pad (leather) and packing as appropriate. Clips may be indicated to stabilize the hoof capsule if severe demineralization of the distal phalanx is radiographically present.

The protocol can vary dependent up whether the PO is non-septic or septic. 

Non-septic PO is not well defined and difficult to diagnose while septic PO is typically an easier and more reliable diagnosis. Treatment will often include NSAIDs.

Septic PO can involve surgical debridement of any infectious tract and possible removal of infected bone.

Whether septic or non-septic, prognosis is considered favorable for long term use ( so long as infection is controlled in septic cases). For cases with non-septic secondary symptoms it is presumed the primary causal factors will be successfully addressed.

I'm answering your question only in an academic context with no inference that your horse may in any way suffer pedal osteitis. That diagnostic is the realm and responsibility of the attending veterinarian; not the farrier.

Cheers,
Mark





Horses with septic PO will generally be very lame. Non-septic cases may present intermittent lameness.


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## IquitosARG10 (Aug 27, 2011)

I hope things start looking up for your boy soon - it's hard to watch them be in so much pain. Screw everyone's arguing too - just listen to your vet, you will be able to figure out the best plan of action for him. Good luck


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## Bay Lee (Aug 27, 2011)

In the end, it will be your decision..You should take advice from people who have actually dealt with navicular, ....like the saying..the ones that have been there, done that.....Im sure some horses will do fine in shoes with navicular, some don't, to some, its just a band aid, it just covers the problem, but does not fix it....So, you have to figure out what works for your horse..alot of owners will not take the time to grow a complelty new hoof on the horse, it takes one year, and sometimes more...With good trims, with good angles,good heal position, a horse can come around...Ive been there, done that..Alot of living and learning is needed... It will do him good to have pure MSM also, 10,000mg a day...good luck with your boy, keep us posted..


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## jrcci (Apr 28, 2011)

thanks everyone. well today my little cousins came out to the barn and wanted to sit on my horse. i figured that it wouldnt make jr and worse and i decided after to show them how to groom. well usually i just skip over his front feet cause they have the full pads on them, but today i checked them. no wonder he was lame all of the sudden. a **** nail was in his hoof. i was so angry at myself for not looking. my little sister had looked and said there was nothing in his foot and i didnt check it.... so i blame myself. but luckly the nail was just in the full pad and didnt actually go into his hoof. because once i took it out of his full pad he was back to atleast his equivalent of sound. so i was really happy about that. i going to try to lightly ride him tomorrow maybe like 10 minutes of trotting if i can find the time. thanks eveyone for all of your concerns


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

jrcci said:


> okay. please dont say anything else about going barefoot or putting shoes on him. i dont wanna hear any more arguing.
> 
> and thanks everyone for axplaining pedal osteitis. but what would be different in trating that rather than the navicular.


Not interested in arguing either, as I said, only giving my opinion for your consideration:wink:. In answer to the above, very basically & hypothetically, I would consider that a padded bar shoe, in order to stablise the hoof would be necessary for pedal osteitis/fracture, whereas I would consider a 'navicular' horse is *generally* better off in boots rather than shoes.


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## jrcci (Apr 28, 2011)

he is in bar shoes with a pad as i stated in my previous post. i gave him a week off because he was sore and now tonight after school i will be working him lightly and i will keep everyone posted with how he is doing...


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