# our western dressage debut !



## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

pic overload lol

me and my pony scout went to our first western dressage show a couple weekends ago. heres some pictures =]

we actually did really really well. we won both our western dressage classes and dressage trail ! we scored 63%, 64% and 75%. scout hates dressage so i was really pleased with him. the place that ran the show wouldnt let me show in a hat so i just warmed up in it =[


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## MangoRoX87 (Oct 19, 2009)

Wahoooo!! Good job!!

The fact that they wouldn't let you wear your hat is weird, but there are plenty of threads on that

One thing I would fix is your empty hand. Instead of placing it on your leg (I used to do this a loooot) put your hand even with the rein hand, think like you are holding a gun and point it towards your horses bit. Keep it nice and relaxed. I'm trying to find an example picture that shows what I am talking about. The hand on the thigh can make you look tense, so maybe even Rommel reins if you have difficulty giving that hand a job (like me lol)
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## MangoRoX87 (Oct 19, 2009)

And might I also say you have a LOVELY seat!
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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

i complained about having to wear a helmet A LOT. because the organizer said i could wear a hat, and western dressage rules say you can wear a hat. and they didnt tell me i had to wear a helmet until i was already warmed up.... they said next time they will have a waiver for people who dont want to wear a helmet lol but it didnt help me much !

i was advised by my western friends to put my hand on my leg because im not used to riding one handed and they said my hand would look more still if i put it on my leg. 

thanks lol =] i just have a good pony


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Good job!!!
I am getting really keen on the idea of Cowboy dressage myself so I'm glad that you posted
The helmet thing is an insurance clause I would think - I'm afraid we all be ruled by events insurance or our own health insurance soon where helmets are concerned
Attached a link to the Cowboy Dressage channel - it looks as if riding with the reins in two hands is more normal in this type of Western competition


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

thanks !

i rode one test 2 handed and one test 1 handed. per the rules you can do either, you can also ride in a snaffle with a horse of any age. for me it just seemed odd to ride 2 handed bc i wasnt riding in a snaffle....

i also would have been fine riding with a helmet, except that they told me i could ride in a hat and then took it back at the last minute.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

In my opinion, in that video, there is way too much contact on a curb for it to be a good example of western riding. I really dislike how western dressage is reinventing english carriage.

I would love to see a test done in correct western frame with a real jog and lope.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I have to agree with AF. If this new sport is going to be Western, then the rider should ride one handed, neck rein and have a very light contact. 
I could not do that . absolutely could not get the kind of movements you want in dressage with one hand on a curb bit. IT takes tremendous talent and training to be able to do that.


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## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

So cute! So fun!

Is there a rule about having "typical" Dressage carriage?
Like, if I went in and did the pattern like I would a horsemanship pattern, would I get knocked down?

Like this girl?





I want to do western dressage, but like others said, I don't want to ride english in a western saddle, lol.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

That's a wonderfully responsive horse.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Agree. I don't see any difference between free and working gaits at all either. In "free" id say it means more forward, "working" more slow and collected.And I looked at other riders doing the same test. Same thing. But, at least no half dead peanutrollers


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Totally agreed. If you're going to ride two handed on a contact, go get some English tack! The video of the palomino is painful - he is obviously distressed, head up and down, jaw clenched, back locked up because of the amount of pressure being put on his bit. His jog is nice, but his lope is faster then most balanced Dressage canters so I fail entirely to see the point of calling it "Cowboy Dressage" if you're going to ride like an English rider in completely unsuitable tack.

I MUCH preferred your pics gypsygirl. I'd like to see less contact even still. If the idea is Western Dressage, you should be taking all of the ideals of Western riding and transferring them to a Dressage ring, not just doing Dressage in Western tack. When I think "Cowboy Dressage" I think a lovely reining horse doing a Dressage pattern instead.


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## RidinReader (Aug 31, 2012)

I had no idea this was even a thing! I'm fascinated. I guess I'm gonna have to go get lost in a Youtube vortex now, lol.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

I've been seeing clinics for this pop up but haven't understood it. Is it basically Dressage but in Western tack? What are the upper levels like? Are they loafing and passaging in the Western saddle?
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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I didn't realise this thread was supposed to be an argument for or against Cowboy dressage
I also didn't post the video to critique the horse/rider or to compare them to the OP's pics but to show that the test can be ridden with two hands. As far as I can see its still in its early stages and aimed at someone who wants to ride western on any breed of horse and do something a bit different to WP
You can use a snaffle if you want too or ride bitless in a bosal or something like a Dr Cook if I'm reading the rules correctly.
I dont think its judged on the level the horse holds its head at but on obedience and responsiveness
As for all western riders only using one rein - does that mean the Brannaman is riding english in this video and his horse looks pretty 'collected' to me.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Jaydee, thanks for bringing up Brannaman
I think if anybody does Western Dressage, it's him.

Glad I didn't "critique" the two against one hand thing. ;-). After all there are loose shanked bits who can be and should be used two-handed.
But if they call it dressage, the differences between working and free speed should be easily seen.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I honestly dont know enough about it to understand how its going to work in the higher stages, they had a clinic at a local yard that is mostly western that we went to watch and I thought it looked far more relaxed than conventional dressage and way less contact with the bit.
Western horses spin and sidepass etc so I suppose those would be the moves they would incorporate into the advanced levels
The fact that its open to all breeds - so not dominated by the quarter horse - does sort of mean they can't so much judge on the quality of the lope as that would give a disadvantage to something like a draft horse type.
I dont think anyones going to be forced to participate!!!


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Maybe people aren't forced to participate, and I guess I'm not being forced to watch either but yeesh talk about weird and painful looking. And these are the people downtalking Rolkur?? At least those riders are in a snaffle and have some idea of what "release" is. Poor horse.

Want to ride western? Awesome. Want to do a dressage pattern in western tack? Great, go for it. But don't haul on the poor horse's face, two handed in a huge *** curb. 
The thing also about the English carriage and "dressage movement" in the """"discipline"""" is that if it's supposed to be western, then it should be that a western horse can go and do well in a western headset doing a jog and lope, not that I can take my WB out in a western saddle and clean clock.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

When I said go get some English tack, I meant a PROPER bit for riding on a contact. Brannaman is not riding in a big *** curb that was never designed for contact. In general, I consider a snaffle a piece of English tack because while most horses are started in one regardless of discipline, they are not permitted in a Western show ring past a certain age. As they are literally the ONLY bit you can ride in for Dressage until upper levels, I consider a snaffle an English piece of tack.

And quite frankly, yes, that video basically shows Brannaman doing English riding in a Western saddle. Everything he is asking of this horse from paces to rhythm to carriage are aspects you would see in an English show ring, not a Western show ring. The point being he's not IN a show ring, and there are aspects from both disciplines that are very helpful in other disciplines. It is VERY much comparable to things like "hunter under saddle" for AQHA. It is NOT an English class - it is a Western class in English tack. All of the ideals being judged are Western ideals and those horses would place dead last in any true open hunter class.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> When I said go get some English tack, I meant a PROPER bit for riding on a contact. Brannaman is not riding in a big *** curb that was never designed for contact. In general, I consider a snaffle a piece of English tack because while most horses are started in one regardless of discipline, they are not permitted in a Western show ring past a certain age. As they are literally the ONLY bit you can ride in for Dressage until upper levels, I consider a snaffle an English piece of tack.
> 
> And quite frankly, yes, that video basically shows Brannaman doing English riding in a Western saddle. Everything he is asking of this horse from paces to rhythm to carriage are aspects you would see in an English show ring, not a Western show ring. The point being he's not IN a show ring, and there are aspects from both disciplines that are very helpful in other disciplines. It is VERY much comparable to things like "hunter under saddle" for AQHA. It is NOT an English class - it is a Western class in English tack. All of the ideals being judged are Western ideals and those horses would place dead last in any true open hunter class.



Actually in quite a few countries one is now allowed to compete all the way up to the GP Special in a snaffle in a national show  Plus in a double bridle, half the bridle is still a snaffle and there is far less contact on the curb than the snaffle.

I also agree wholey with your last paragraph. Before I consider WD to be legitimate they really are going to have to define what it is they're looking for. IMO if they just want a dressage horse in western tack and the prize money is good I'll just buy a western saddle and go win me some money.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I don't think Brannaman is doing English in western tack. Brannanan is doing classical, regardless of tack. His is the vaquero style, which in turn comes from the Spanish which in turn comes from old school European, be it French (de la Guerriniere), Italian (Neapolitan ) or Austrian(Vienna). Tack, and some of the training methods have been modified according to needs, be it war, what it was originally intended for, or work. 
Oh, and Rollkur was nowhere to be seen. And certainly nobody would have had the idea of slapping a shanked bit or a curb into a horse's mouth just because it was 5 years old.
And yes, a well trained horse can and should be ridden in a plain snaffle up to the highest levels.
If Western Dressage, or whatever you want to call it, gets people on the right path, away from said peanut rolling, half dead horses, that would be really nice.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

It's funny...Buck is VERY popular among the dressage crowd here in NC. Even GP riders attend his clinics. I guess it may show that his methods are more along the lines there than in classical western riding...whatever that is defined as.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I didn't say you can't ride in a snaffle in upper level Dressage, I said you can ride in ONLY a snaffle UNTIL upper level Dressage. You can't just slap a double bit on a Training Level horse in Dressage, and they also do not allow bits such as pelhams or kimberwicks. Not until Third Level I believe are you allowed to ride in a double, as per Equine Canada.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Yes and even at third level judges like to see snaffles. Riding for Axel Steiner the only comment on the bottom of a 70% third level test, in caps, was "thank you for snaffle". I actually laughed when I got the test sheet.

Sorry must have misread as snaffles are only until upper levels, then you must switch to a double, which was the case 12 months ago.
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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I didn't say you said
I said they SHOULD be
And im not current with the show rules anymore. I was actually talking about in general, not show.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Yeah a lot of people around here are still in a snaffle for Third. We usually see doubles at Fourth and always at PSG. Not that we have a lot of competition at those levels anyway!


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

the thing about the bit rules and one hand/two hand rules are that they are just trying to make it inviting for people. especially people who dont show, but want to improve their horse and their way of going.

also, about being truly western. western dressage is sort of a mix. its western jog/lope, but the judges are dressage judges, not western judges. i personally kept my reins a bit shorter, especially shorter than a WP rider. my friend does WP with her horse and she advised me that i should ride with shorter reins than her because western pleasure horses just have to ride around on the rail, not do many movements. at this point they dont have any complicated tests. there are basic tests and primary tests. basic is w/j and primary is w/j/l. its pretty much intro and training level tests. i cant wait until they have a 1st level equivalent. 

dressage trail was also something i never knew existed until i got to the show, but it was really pretty fun !


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

GG, I thought you are eventing! Did I mess up? :lol: 

Lovely horse. Congrats on good scores!


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Thanks for the explanation GG! You guys look great in any case!
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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

lol scout was a bit confused that there was never any jumps !

thanks !


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

LOVE the photos! :lol: that's the best dressage attire I've seen in a long time. Great photos! thanks for sharing!


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

thanks ! 
way easier and more comfortable than dressage attire


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

gypsygirl said:


> thanks !
> way easier and more comfortable than dressage attire


Bahahaha I totally disagree. My coach has turned me into a Dressage queen with a love for modest bling, perfect braids, flowing tails, flawless buns, shadbellies and top hats. :lol:


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

i dont mind braiding and all that, but when all you have to do is tuck your shirt into your jeans and put a hat on.... lol so much easier and more comfortable !


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