# Thoughts on this saddle?



## ChieTheRider

Beautiful Black Barrel Racing Western Horse Saddle 15 18- 10746 - 19410 

I'm thinking of getting this one. My synthetic saddle is total junk, and my oldoldold leather one is a used cheapie and kind of falling apart. I've fixed it up and it works, but the conchos have fallen off in some places and the leather is peeling. It's very used. Still functional, but point being I'm going to need a saddle. If I'm going to get one, I want to get something that'll last a good while. The saddle above doesn't have a maker I can see and I don't know where it comes from, another balk. But, it's on sale for something affordable (sorta). Normally it's like $800, which isn't a bad saddle. Not sure about buying this, you could tell by my tack that I've never bought a brand spankin new saddle before XD. It looks like something I could use for barrels (kinda need a 14" but that's 15" at the smallest. I'm 15" in a regular saddle but some barrel racers go an inch under. If it could work for barrels and all around stuff that'd be great). The color is pretty amazing and would be perfect for Tess (she's reddish brown with a black/blond mane and tail) and it comes with the bridle and breast collar and all...

Thoughts on this saddle?


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## tinyliny

It looks like a low quality leather and these sorts of deals, with the breastplate and the bridle as part of a set, are usually some poorly made tack from India. Sorry, but it will not last long. 

You are better off buying a well than used, but originally well built saddle for $350, saddle only.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

You get what you pay for.


I buy and sell new and used saddles. I have a couple of unbranded 'throw away' saddles on hand at all times for someone who's just wanting an el cheapo/pretty saddle and doesn't ride much.


I also keep the old school 'less than pretty' saddles on hand for people that actually want quality.

Here's the thing:

I have two used throw away barrel saddles right now, both are Mexican made. They look like trash and are barely a year old. They have styrofoam between the skirts, the leather is stiff, thinner than a better made saddle, and curling and rippling up in a way that I can't fix, and the stitching is coming loose - rotting. Doesn't appear to have been waxed thread.

They claim to have FQH trees, but out of our six horses with wildly varying builts, the fit is sloppy and there are places that are going to dig in and sore up a horse in a hurry. The conchos and silver trim are cheap and leaching out verdigris and rusting.

A quick review of saddle maker forums tells me they aren't fixable, at least not in any way that helps their resale or how they fit. They're not worth spending the money to fix, you'd be better off throwing them away and buying a used good saddle. 

I'm not going to waste my time and effort cleaning them up and making them look presentable. They are what they are, and if someone wants a beater saddle, they can buy them for about $100.00 bucks and I'll be glad to have two free spots to put more saddles that are better made. 

In short - you can beat the bushes for a used, better made production saddle such as a Circle Y or a Billy Cook, or some older brands and your horse will not only thank you for it, but you will have some resale value in the saddle when you're ready to trade up or sell it outright.

This one is pretty, but in about a year it won't be worth selling and it won't look like this. Caveat emptor.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Also, I have a Paul Taylor made, SRS barrel saddle that is a 14" and it was just a hair more than this one. I found it on CL, negotiated the price down to somewhere close to the price of the one you're looking at.

I have a 16" older Ammerman roping saddle that I picked up for that exact amount, and it is one heck of a saddle. It just needed to be cleaned, conditioned, new strings and conchos, and that was less than a $40.00 investment.

It has sold for more than double my investment in less than two weeks. It ships out today. I tell you this so you realize what I'm talking about when I mention resale value.


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## Golden Horse

Pass...


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## horselovinguy

No....
For the reasons AtokaGhosthorse mentioned and what I write below...

So "new" tack has a enormous markup price to it. 
Keep that in mind. The fact the company is still making a profit and it is selling for $300 for_ a complete matching set..._:think:

So, you're in my state.
The question is where because I just hit Craigslist and found several ads from decent saddle manufacturers listed.
I know there are tack shops in many areas of Florida that have used saddles for sale...
Try Craigslist in the Farm & Garden section..._seriously._
In the search bar write western saddles and see what shows for the geographic area you chose...
Now just change the location box to a different area and see what is listed...
If not to far away, Tack Shack Ocala has a horsey yard sale coming up soon...
_Home of the Famous Horsey Yard Sale!_
People go to this and when I say hundreds, I mean hundreds of saddles are for sale used in all prices...tack, blankets...you name it it is their. Only used is sold here at the yard-sale as this is a new tack shop selling too.There are many "yard-sales" now in various locations starting...check them out and this allows you to sit in and make sure it is comfortable to your anatomy and you might get a chance to check horse fit too.

OK...
So, I went prowling the online site for more information...
The saddle you chose has Double Reinforced Wood & Fiberglass Tree regarding the trees used in this saddle.
I finally found on their home page, "Extra-strong fiberglass trees with wood reinforcements underneath these attractive saddles allow you to feel safe and secure on even the most mountainous terrain." 
This is so vague...did they glue a Popsicle stick on the fiberglass?? A piece of balsa wood 1/16" thick glued on...no details, none.
That makes me nervous...
So then I went cruising around and see some saddles have clearly a 5 year warranty badge on certain saddles.
Natural Barrel Racing Saddle Tack Package 14 16- 1204 - 3967
 So...my point is....why is this saddle so much better the tree carries a 5 year warranty and the saddle you picked out has nothing...:|
That fact makes me wonder and question the quality of the product.
You do get what you pay for...

So, a few things I noticed on the saddle you picked that make me say_* no...*_
Did you look really closely at the pictures and see the entire seat is outlined with metal studs...that is where you sit, under your upper thigh and you _are_ going to feel them.
You can't see under the saddle, the gullet area very well...you can see nail/studs that hold the leather wrap on the tree then it gets shadowy...
You look down critically, study the picture from overhead showing the seat....what do you see?_ Not balanced_..the horn is not centered to the leather seat to my eye...
The big picture looks pretty...
When you get critical it raises questions in my mind.
A offset saddle and tree is going to irritate your horses spine, affect how you sit and trust me mess up your balance...unless you specifically desire this...
That look to horn and offset seat just made me say_ NO_, save your money and spend it on a better saddle...
Could be from them, _but not this one._

I'm not saying they are a bad company...I won't and I know of products people have bought from them and they are fine...
But be careful what it is you are buying.
My gut tells me there is a reason why no warranty is placed on the saddle you chose, but the one I found has a 5 year warranty...
:runninghorse2:....
_jmo..._


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## ChieTheRider

Confirms my suspicions. Really, I like the looks, but I'd rather have something I can ride in for the next few years than some cheap junk. Let's see what craigslist says (again).


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## Chevaux

A pretty looking saddle but as has been said will in all certainty not hold up to regular long term use, and, more importantly, may present a questionable fit for your horse. Fitting saddle to horse presents a problem in and of itself and can be a nuisance if you get a good find but the correct fit between the two isn’t happening. Also (I do not barrel race), don’t barrel saddles have a higher cantle? That one’s cantle looks like a regular one.

I think if I was in your situation, I’d try for used or I’d look into synthetics. Reflecting on the financial aspects, I have seen owners trying to sell the good name brand used saddles for close to new prices which is not much of a bargain and may discourage a purchase from them. If budget is a significant consideration in the purchase, I understand synthetics are less pricey and some brands are of decent quality so may be the way to go so that you have something to use while you save up. 

Good luck with the search.


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## beau159

ChieTheRider said:


> Beautiful Black Barrel Racing Western Horse Saddle 15 18- 10746 - 19410
> 
> I'm thinking of getting this one.


No. Don't.

A brand new saddle, package deal with headstall and breastcollar, with no name brand and only $300? _Just no._ It's going to be absolute junk.

It doesn't say, but I'd be willing to bet it's a junk fiberglass tree in that saddle, probably from India. 

My "rule of thumb" is that if a new Western saddle (leather) is priced under $500, it's junk. IMO



ChieTheRider said:


> I'm 15" in a regular saddle but some barrel racers go an inch under.


Mmmmmm, not anyone I know. 

If you normally ride in a 15" saddle and that is what you are comfortable with, then that is what size of barrel saddle I would tell you to get. 

Just like any other saddle, you need it to fit the rider. You don't want too large or too small of a seat size. 



ChieTheRider said:


> Still functional, but point being I'm going to need a saddle. If I'm going to get one, I want to get something that'll last a good while.


The saddle you posted is not going to last a good while. 

I would advise you to look for a QUALITY name brand saddle that is used but still in good condition. Honestly, there are a lot of saddles that are 30+ years old that still have 30 more years of use. If they were made RIGHT like they used to be made, and if they were taken care of, they will still last for a long time. So as long as it is a name brand saddle with a good reputation (and again, has been taken care of) don't let age scare you. 

I don't know what your budget is, but there are reasonable new saddles out there too. For example, there's basic Circle Y saddles and Billy Cook saddles under $1,000 for a new barrel racing saddle. No, they are not the same quality they used to be 20 years ago, but they are still a decent entry level saddle that will give you years of use. I'm not familiar with Billy Cook off the top of my head, but most of the Circle Y saddles have a 10 year warranty on the tree. A good saddle company is going to have a warranty behind their work. 

Corriente is also a good entry level saddle at an affordable price for a new one. 

Hereford or Tex Tan are two older brands that are usually great buys as used (again, so long as they have been taken care of).


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## horselovinguy

Try* https://ocala4sale.com/list-cat/animals-pets/horse-tack-for-sale/* too....
This is also for other areas if you just click the region button...

There is also a *https://florida4sale.com/list-cat/animals-pets/horse-tack-for-sale/*

The saddles _are_ available, you just need to look in the right places... :smile:
:runninghorse2:.....


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## Dustbunny

LOL I do believe I'd pay horselovinguy to go shopping with me!


I would rather pay more for a good quality used saddle than any lower priced, questionable new one. Glad you decided to pass on the one in question. Good luck in your search. I feel for you.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Chevaux said:


> A pretty looking saddle but as has been said will in all certainty not hold up to regular long term use, and, more importantly, may present a questionable fit for your horse. Fitting saddle to horse presents a problem in and of itself and can be a nuisance if you get a good find but the correct fit between the two isn’t happening. Also (I do not barrel race), *don’t barrel saddles have a higher cantle?* That one’s cantle looks like a regular one.
> 
> I think if I was in your situation, I’d try for used or I’d look into synthetics. Reflecting on the financial aspects, I have seen owners trying to sell the good name brand used saddles for close to new prices which is not much of a bargain and may discourage a purchase from them. If budget is a significant consideration in the purchase, I understand synthetics are less pricey and some brands are of decent quality so may be the way to go so that you have something to use while you save up.
> 
> Good luck with the search.


Some do, some don't. Some have deeper seats than others as well, even taller, wider swells. Just depends on what the rider wants.

I've even seen a few barrel saddles with bear trap swells.

I see a lot with the high back and deep seat or the big swells advertised as 'great beginner's saddle' so maybe those are a little like training wheels? LOL I'll defer to Beau or someone who actually races on that one. 



Also - those mexican saddles - I've fearlessly torn into them because I HAD to know what the heck this saddle needed styrofoam for in between the skirts. On one, and this is the saddle that tipped me off, its peeking out from the rear flank cinch hole and the silver trim around it, so I saw it and wondered what the heck.

So I peeled back the jockeys on it.

They apparently used it to shim up any low spots in the top of the tree to give the seat and jockeys an even appearance. A few rides and that starts to squish down and squirt out of place. Its not styrofoam like the type that crumbles into white snow, but closer celled, tougher, more spongy. I've looked under the jockeys on the two new ones I have and lo... there it is. Same thing. Filling out the low spots (read that as poorly made, inconsistent quality tree) on the tree so the leather looks good on the surface.

Still haven't figured out why there's a block of it at the back of that one where the flank billets go. All I can think of is to give it a bit more shape and maybe hold up a little longer before stress on the flank billets causes the saddle leather to pull out and wear through. IDK. 

And I say this at a whisper... I've recently torn into a Double J cutting saddle (needed pulled apart to clean and the original factory conchos had been pulled off and replaced with some really cheesy Maltese Cross conchos). I have to say: I am not impressed. There's not a lot of saddle there for the money when you look at its construction, not the surface, but maybe that's just how cutters are made. ???


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## horselovinguy

Good grief..._where is my brain today _:icon_rolleyes::icon_rolleyes::icon_rolleyes:

You're in Florida...
Go see Ruff's Saddle Shop and get a custom saddle made to fit you and your horse...
For a fraction of what you think it will cost...
The mans shop also has many used, in good condition saddles that people trade in or consign with him when they decide to purchase his custom saddles...
If you bring your horse with you he will "fit" you _and_ the horse properly.
He is in Umatilla, FL 32784. Lake County.
:runninghorse2:....


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## ChieTheRider

Arg why does saddle shopping have to be such a pain in the rear...I''m sort of looking for something not much more than $300. I don't mind used tack at all, I just am going to need a new saddle. 

And I wish I could maybe find a custom saddle maker closer, I'm in Northwest FL. Very Northwest FL.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

So you need to be looking into Alabama and/or Mississippi for used saddles.

$300 is a tough price to meet for a used GOOD saddle, but if you can save up $100.00 more, even $50 then you're in the market. But then, as I've said, if you're willing to haggle?


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## coffinbone

#1: Does the saddle fit the horse, and is it comfortable for the horse?

#2: Does it fit the rider?

For your horse’s sake, read about saddle fit and the horrors of strapping two curved 1x4s to your horse’s back and asking her to turn tight around barrels. 

If a saddle doesn’t fit, you’ll spend a lot more money on good bodyworkers – massage, acupuncture, chiropractic, Masterton Method, etc. - (or dangerous painkillers) for both Tess (bless her heart) and for you, than on finding an great saddle fitter and a well-fitting saddle.

IMO, the saddle appears neither beautiful nor comfortable. Look for fit.


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## coffinbone

"If you bring your horse with you he will "fit" you and the horse properly.
He is in Umatilla, FL 32784. Lake County." - (horselovinguy)

Thank you, horselovinguy!!


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## ChieTheRider

haha that saddle isn't a consideration any more. 

One thing I've found is that on this ride we go on every year for a rescue, they sell used tack for pretty cheap. And my horse is literally right there and tied to the trailer to try things on if the sellers allow. And there's the local barrel racer community, they're usually swapping tack around. I might find something. 

I got 2 pairs of SMB's for $1 each, both in great (one didn't even look used) condition. They also gave away bridle pieces and polo wraps, all that good stuff.


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## beau159

ChieTheRider said:


> Arg why does saddle shopping have to be such a pain in the rear...I''m sort of looking for something not much more than $300. I don't mind used tack at all, I just am going to need a new saddle.
> 
> And I wish I could maybe find a custom saddle maker closer, I'm in Northwest FL. Very Northwest FL.


And of course, you have to make sure the saddle fits the horse! That's the most challenging part with saddle searching.


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## SKB1994

I'm currently listing a Dakota barrel saddle with matching tack. Semi QH bars, 15", its well made and very pretty to look at. In great condition, couple surface scratches you'll never notice if you're not looking. Not getting use at my house and I don't barrel race. You can PM me if you're interested.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

You know, another consideration is to hit up a livestock or horse auction in your area - by your area I mean within a couple of hours drive from home if you have to.

They usually run tack through the auctions, and some have designated nights for nothing but tack.


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