# Please Critique Queenie's Conformation & Pedigree



## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

Bumping this up.


----------



## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

Anyone???


----------



## Lopin N Paint (May 30, 2012)

I really like this little girl, however to me she is the perfect example of a young horse that really needs wait till year 3 or 4 to really start working her and putting her under saddle. She is verY immature yet and resembles a yearlng... riding her now would be a darn shame, I think if you give her another year or two she will look like a different horse. JMO.


----------



## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

I know nothing about Pedigree but her confo will change as she matures. Right now she's very front-heavy but pretty nice shoulder and eventually we hope she'll be able to level out a little more. Pretty nice hip, not too long of a back. It will strengthen once she begins to really work her topline and track up more in the back (her trotting picture shows lack of thrust from behind)

But she's very cute and will be a nice mare when she's older.

What are your plans for her?

I think you need to aim to get some padding over her ribs and for her hips to be less defined. I can't put a # on how much, but you may want to bring her in to feed her so she can get enough to eat.


----------



## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

You can not believe how calm she is, I hope she'll make a good mount when she matures.

I don't plan on riding her this year as her knees REALLY are still "open" and so I'm hoping she will mature to 15 hh. Anyone else think she will? I do hope, though, to saddle her this year and just let her wear it in the pasture etc. so that won't be a problem when the time comes to ride her.

How are her legs? Hocks/canon bones/pasterns. 

What disciplines do you think will be best for her? I do see her having an interest in herding animals and was curious if that was strong in her bloodlines.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I, too , think she looks very immature. I am terrible about making good assessments of horses that aren't mature yet. she looks like she has long canons, like she's all legs at this point.


----------



## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

In these pictures she looks to be a "short" two years old. As in Two off (or barely two.. or even coming 2). The reason I say this aside from her over all immature appearance is the length of her tail.. looks closer to 18 months old than 24 months old.

That being said there are some things that can be critiques at this young age. There is a saying "Tops may come but bottoms never." This means the legs are the legs and won't change much as the horse matures. In these photos this filly looks to have adequate bone but she is slightly tied in at the knee. Her hind leg looks to have correct angles although she might be slightly sickle hocked (hard to tell here). Her hocks are quite far off the ground and her knees are much lower than her hocks so even if the levels up, she may travel and work down hill.

As for her body.. and this may change.. she looks to be developing a p[igeon breast. I anticipate her point of shoulder will be placed a bit low and her shoulder will steepen with maturity. She looks a bit weak and long through the coupling and may be developing a steepish croup.

Her neck ties in nicely to adequate.. somewhat immature.. withers and does not currently appear to tie in too low to the chest.

Over all I like the look of this filly at this age. She has no overwhelming issues with conformation and she fits together well. 

And then, to add to that, she has a lovely flaxen mane and tail with a deep sorrel color ("toasted sorrel" is the term I believe I have heard). I really like that color combination. 

Nice filly. Post photos of her this time next year with these. It should be very interesting and you will see if I am right or way wrong (oh yeah.. I have been.. LOL) on what I think will happen as she matures.


----------



## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

Hmm, any reason why she looks so immature? Is it just because she is a slow growing one, or maybe needs more feeding of some sorts? 

She was born May 20th 2011.

So what is a pigeon breast and what does it affect later on? In any of the conformation, is there any way to help it grow stronger? Maybe ponying over hills or something?

Oh and the tail thing, she was standing near the newly weaned bottle calf pen getting licked/sucked while some of the others were sucking/chewing her tail, and it wasn't just her, Red the other Quarter horse had the same thing happen. Flicka doesn't stand such foolishness and her tail is quite long yet! 

Here are some pictures I found that her breeder took of her, I wish I could have seen her sire&dam's confo. shots...Oh well.

















































Queenie's sire,









Queenie last year,


----------



## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

She just needs to be fed and grow. A conformation critique is just that... takes the flaws and the good parts. There is no perfect horse. 

Her knees and hocks aren't closed and really she is a short two year old being slightly 2 months past her 2 year old birthday. Just feed her good hay, good clean water, free choice mineral block, keep her worming up to date and vaccinations and find a ration balancer (grain). Let her grow.. do some ground work with her and next spring I expect you will see a different horse far more ready to take on saddling and training to be ridden. 

Meanwhile you can do things like ground driving, long lining, getting her used to a saddle and a bridle.. all the "stuff" that leads to riding. Take a bit of time now and next spring it will smoothly go forward when you start backing her.


----------



## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

^^That's the plan, thank-you!


----------



## Lopin N Paint (May 30, 2012)

I wouldn't worry about her looking immature. 

Yeah, perhaps a higher protein diet (I would e looking to adjust grain types and amounts if she gets a lot of grass and hay already) but really she looks to me to be more gangly and awkward than serverly under weight. :wink: I would however be looking into getting grain upped. 

What type of grain is she getting? I find pellet feed seems to work better for me than sweet feeds. I personally like Purina Ultium or Purina Strategy myself... But those are easy for me to get in my area.

I think more than anything she's just a slow growing gal that needs a little more time to fill in and grow up. 

Every year while apprenticing with a local trainer we got at least one two year old (sometimes a three year old) that we would break enough to sit on and walk around the she would send them home till next year telling the owners to give the horse another year.


----------



## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

She's just getting good quality hay (I think she just needs to have her amount upped, with no conflict with the other horses) , no grain, and I will be putting her back on beet pulp. 

The reason behind no grain is that I was told by several people, that know what they are about, that grain shouldn't be fed to horses.... Messes with their hoofs etc. To also stay clear of sweet feeds.

I hope I can take pictures of her next year at this time, if I remember!


----------



## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

*Oct. pictures*

Here are two more pictures of Queenie... The one makes her back look weird and awkward. Does she have a sway/long back?? I'm sorry the pictures aren't as good as the others... Had a different photo taker and it was getting dark.

Anyway tell me if she's changed any.


----------



## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

ot a sway back but definitely a little on the weak side from being long and not as much topline.

But she's still growing


----------



## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

You think it will change?


----------



## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

I've got a guy who's looking to buy her as a WP horse, do you think she'd be good for that? She does have a nice slow lope to her, what do you all think?

Also those above pictures are awful of her.


----------



## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

Bump-up


----------



## Lopin N Paint (May 30, 2012)

EmilyJoy said:


> I've got a guy who's looking to buy her as a WP horse, do you think she'd be good for that? She does have a nice slow lope to her, what do you all think?
> 
> Also those above pictures are awful of her.


NO. To keep it simple she will not make a Western Pleasure horse.

She would make a fine trail horse, she's a bit too fine boned for me to market as a gamer and keep a good conscience. 

To me selling this horse as any of the above would be waist of a really nice talented little horse. She should be marketed as a prospect for Ranch Versatility, Sorting, team Penning, Reining, or Reined Cowhorse. I think those avenues suit her best. She might not be a top dollar horse, but I'd take her any day with those goals in mind. 

I'll take her if you can get her to PA for a good price. :lol:


----------



## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

Haha^^ Thanks, but shipping costs a ton. Could you enlighten me as to why she wouldn't make a good WP? 

The guy has seen photos of her so obviously he would know what she looked like as far as WP prospect, but really it's up to him. I was just curious as to why she would or wouldn't make a good WP horse.


----------



## Shoebox (Apr 18, 2012)

I have a May 2011 baby too, and she's less mature looking than yours. People think she's a yearling. So don't sweat it


----------



## Lopin N Paint (May 30, 2012)

EmilyJoy said:


> Haha^^ Thanks, but shipping costs a ton. Could you enlighten me as to why she wouldn't make a good WP?
> 
> The guy has seen photos of her so obviously he would know what she looked like as far as WP prospect, but really it's up to him. I was just curious as to why she would or wouldn't make a good WP horse.


She is not bred for it. She will not have the right movement or head set to be competitive. I suspect her lope is much more "pretty" than her trot based on conformation. Typical of a using/cowy horse. She looks real 'quick' on her feet. Not typical or needed in WP. 


On a local level I think she would be ok for WP I guess. But why do that when she would make a better reined cowhorse? 

So much relies on movement and temperament though.

I know a woman that has a reining bred horse she purchased for 25k and she decided to do dressage because the fast pace reining maneuvers scared her. The horse does it, but man it's a waist of a real nice reining horse imho.


----------



## fallengt09 (Oct 31, 2013)

She's a cute baby for sure, and a nice combo of running and cow blood. Might make a decent speed event when she's older. What are you feeding her? She looks so small for her age, but still well put together


----------



## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

I'm feeding her free choice grass/alfalfa hay with about a 1# (guess) of beet pulp. It was recommended by our feed guy and some others not to do grain as it's not healthy for their hoofs/health. What do you recommend?

You all really think she'll have some speed on her? I originally bought her to eventually replace my older mare, who could really run I mean book it(!), but Queenie is SO calm. Do you think the speed attitude will come later? That's what she was advertized as as a yearling, but when her temperament seems like a 20yr old I am beginning to get doubts. Take for example, dinner time, all the horses come running up...Guess who's poking on behind? You got it, Queenie. When I pony her off of my bigger horse, she always is quite content to lag behind like a poky puppy.

Could it be with training she'll love to run? I know with my other horses they can get quite competitive when running neck to neck.

As far as ranching/cows, I'll have to do a little research, and watch some videos on how to start horses on that kind of stuff. We do raise calves/steers so that could be an option down the road.

Ha, maybe I should just wait it out until she turns 3 before worrying about how much spunk she'll have. Could be she's just immature?


----------



## fallengt09 (Oct 31, 2013)

I've known a lot of laid back speed horses. My two year old is really lazy mostly, but she can really move when she wants. She outruns my three year old I got off the track lol
I feed nothing but total equine to my girls. It's a grass based feed, no grain, so it's harder for them to colic off it, plus its way more natural. Great stuff. I have a few pictures of my two year old on my profile, and I'll post a picture of her at 8 months old when I got her. She has really really filled out and grown well on this stuff. She's 15 hands and about 950 pounds. Theres a website that has all the feed info here. Check it out Total Equine Performance Horse Feed
I could write a novel on why I love this stuff lol


----------



## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

Lopin N Paint, what type, in particular, do you think she'd excel at? As in, cutting, reining, roping...etc.
Anything I would do with her wouldn't be hard core, but I could advertize her as being a more _ blank_ type horse, if I still want to sell her.

Can't wait until she's three!


----------



## Lopin N Paint (May 30, 2012)

EmilyJoy said:


> Lopin N Paint, what type, in particular, do you think she'd excel at? As in, cutting, reining, roping...etc.
> Anything I would do with her wouldn't be hard core, but I could advertize her as being a more _ blank_ type horse, if I still want to sell her.
> 
> Can't wait until she's three!


If you advertise/sell her now I would just sell her as a prospect for reining, reined cowhorse, team penning. 


If You had cows and wanted to get her under saddle (better price tags, easier to find good homes) I would just get her w/j/l circles and get her pushing cows around. Then I would market her for reined cowhorse and penning.

With reined cowhorse and penning you can get away with an all around pedigree like hers. 

Anyone looking to be real competitive in reining and cutting would look at her breeding and move on. However on a local level I think she would hold her own with the right training. 

You could try her on barrels and speed events but her lack of bone would be a concern for me when looking at a long term career.

If your area has a 4h that is good you could easily market her for that and I think she would make a good all around 4h horse for a kid that wants to do ALL the western events. (I can't picture her jumping real well) . Again given the right attitude and training. 

That being said, if you get her broke, you can always fall back on the good ole trail horse advertising. Since I think that has the largest clientele.


----------



## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

Ah thanks for the info/advice. It gives me food for thought anyway.

I think I'll have her up for sale until I break her in to saddle, then it's just a matter of whether I like her or not, if I still want to sell her. I doubt she'll sell this year though as usually most people don't buy horses going into winter...


----------



## KSAQHA (Mar 22, 2010)

EmilyJoy - Just wanted to say I have a 10-yr old mare by the same stud (Harlon's Big Mac), different dam, as Queenie. She's the palomino in my "Barn" (Lotsa Freckled Flax). Bought her from the same breeder at 11 months. She is a super horse, more heart and try than most, and is wicked smart! I mainly trail ride, but always felt she would have made an awesome performance horse had I wanted to go that direction. She was super quiet as a youngster, but she is now actually more sensitive and responsive than any of my others. So, my long-winded point is...get some weight on Queenie and let her mature...she may work out just to your liking! 

Just for fun to show how time can improve...

Fugly pic the breeder sent me a week before I picked up "Tawny". Mr. KSAQHA was like "You're buying THAT??" 









As a 3 yr-old...looking a bit better. 









and last October...


----------



## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

Oh my goodness!!! Thank-you for sharing your horse! I see some of the same features in yours as in mine...Like the super long face. Maybe it's just me but Queenie seems like she has a long face.









Oh yes I've picked up on the "wicked smart" part. She has a great memory. 

Can you share some more details of how your filly was (temperament, how much did she run)as a yearling/2yr old? Does she like to run now? Can she run pretty fast? 

Say you don't happen to have a side shot of "Harlons Big Mac" do you? I am really curious as to his conformation and have recently asked them for a conformation shot but they never responded, didn't figure them too, but was still curious as to what Queenie will inherit as far as confo. The picture they had on their website was "blah".

Haha, that WAS an awful picture of Tawny, here are the fugly photos of Queenie that they had.
















Seems like to me they don't know how to take pictures of their horses. Some of their horses are well built and some not, but can't argue with their price if you get a decent horse out of it.

One of my favorite stallions of theirs is Laughing Pep San. I probably would have aimed to buy one of his foals had I known then what I know now about conformation. Have you seen on their website a weanling named "Lulu"? Now that is one I love to have in my barn, just don't have the space, and I'd have to wait another two years before I could ride her. She has Laughing Pep on the top and a mare out of Harlons Big Mac on the bottom....And she's black...Too bad! AQHA Black Colts & Fillies for Sale

And yes I've been trying to make Queenie gain more weight; I've got her separated from the other horse and pony, and have been making sure she has free choice hay and about a pound of beet pulp. She also has salt and mineral available to her at will. 

Can't wait until next summer, do you suppose she could pull anything now? Like drag a log to get her used to some weight in preparation for, say a calf or cart... If nothing else to get her used to things coming at her from behind, and from the front.


----------



## KSAQHA (Mar 22, 2010)

True, Tawny is a bit long from eye to muzzle, but the rest of her is so well balanced it makes up for it. Her barn pic is probably the most flattering of her profile I have. Queenie may grow into her head a little, too. You have to laugh at the homely little baby pics, don't you?

Temperament-wise, considering Tawny had only been handled about 10 days before I picked her up, she was really level headed. She was a quick learner and willing. She wasn't one to race around all bug-eyed and snorty, but, under saddle she can get on it with a very light cue. Yes, she is fast, but never loses her mind with speed. Can't say enough about the mare, she's always been the brave one on trails when my friends' horses aren't - will go wherever I point her. 

As far as what to do with Queenie for now, I would simply get her going on a lunge line and responding to verbal cues (if you haven't already); desensitizing and sensitizing with an assortment of objects and ropes; then on to ground driving...lots of that. Hopefully, she'll be as easy to start and train as Tawny!

I don't have any side shots of the stud, just these two I was sent way back when. I did see him in person (the breeders only live a mile away from my parents) and he was a big-bodied guy and laid back. That Lulu is cute, too. I actually went back a couple years later to look at another weanling filly...that's how much I liked Tawny...but, didn't care for that one's head, it was reeeally long.

Good luck with Queenie, she's a nice looking filly. If she turns out anything like Tawny, you'll probably be hanging onto her!


----------



## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

Oh I don't mind Queenie's face, kinda cute. She would probably look really good in a thin leather western bridle. 

I like her a lot, just waiting to see how she grows I guess.


----------



## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

Here is a most recent picture of her.:wink:


----------



## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

*Fun in the snow Dec. update*

Here's some photos I took of her playing in the snow, looks like I have a appy huh?:lol:


----------



## Rideordie112 (Dec 7, 2013)

I don't know if anyone has said this. But as far as pedigree, she's got Colonel Freckles in there. Quarter horse all of fame. Champion cutting horse. He was big! My horse is a direct grandson of him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

I hope she will get upwards of 15.1-2 and stocky. She's also has got Bar Heels and Three bars not to far back, so maybe she's have speed and a love to run.

Wow... Just looked up Colonel Freckles pedigree... Did not know he has Three Bars in _his _pedigree!


----------



## Dualy2006 (Nov 28, 2013)

shes beautiful! juswt see how off her withers it dips a bit into her neck? means she needs momre mumscle in her neck but thaqt will fill out with work, and see how from her croup to he dock its flat? that needds more muscle too. mbut all will fill out with conditioning and work


----------



## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

As far as work is concerned, what type can I do with her without riding? I'm waiting to break her in to saddle until spring/summer2014. She has been mainly doing groundwork such as lunging, disengaging hind & forequarters, backing, and whatnot.

Thanks for the compliment, I certainly think shes pretty!


----------



## Cynical25 (Mar 7, 2013)

EmilyJoy said:


> As far as work is concerned, what type can I do with her without riding? I'm waiting to break her in to saddle until spring/summer2014. She has been mainly doing groundwork such as lunging, disengaging hind & forequarters, backing, and whatnot.
> 
> Thanks for the compliment, I certainly think shes pretty!


She is a cutie! 

My boy is a March 2011 model. I've put on about 10 or so walk/trot rides, but the weather is making sure I don't push him  Leading up to riding over our 9 months together, did tons of walking/trotting in hand at halter, with showmanship moves like squaring up/setting up, pivots & backing without lead pressure, some in hand sidepassing, bridge & pole crossing, in hand walks down the road and down trails for a change of scenery. Practiced saddling & unsaddling and all other types of handling from both sides, not just the left! Got him used to wearing bell & splint boots, shipping or standing wraps, not freaking out if my jacket was hung over the saddle horn and the wind blew it, etc. Practiced loading/unloading in a trailer. Introduced to the clippers (still working on this!) Lots of reinforcing that he must stand still for grooming, bathing, tacking, or anytime I tell him whoa. Sometimes just tying him up for awhile to practice patience, either at the grooming rack, in his stall, at a trailer, in an arena with horses working around him, or completely alone far away from his buddies. Did a ton of ground driving to get the steering in place; it's also a good way to lightly work him without stressing leg joints from lunging/round penning in endless circles. Ground drove around cones, barrels, over bridges/poles/downed trees, through wide gates and narrow gates, around the property, pretty much anywhere or doing anything I could possibly think of that I'd like to eventually do undersaddle.


----------



## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

^^Thanks for the info, I've done a lot of the groundwork already such as saddling, trailering, bathing, respect exercises, such as what Clinton Anderson teaches and a LOT of ponying off our bigger horse Red. I've ponied her on roads, fields, ditches, woods, creek, around other horses/vehicles etc. 

I'm waiting for spring to ride her as she seems to be a slower grower.


----------



## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

She is very pretty and she has really filled out since even your first pictures last August. I noticed "Three Bars", and my QH "Ro Go Bar" (1982-2009, RIP) had a similar build. He was a grandson of "Go Man Go."
If she is like my QH she should have a very pleasant sitting trot. But he was built downhill and couldn't really jump--more of a fast pleasure horse. He was also very lazy, but, after some reassuring by fawning teenage riding students he became a wonderful and quiet babysitter horse, at 15'3hh. I agree with waiting to back until next year and take it slow. Ro Go Bar had those TB legs and big feet. You wouldn't want to work her hard until the bones are set. =D


----------



## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

Nice to know other people have had success with similar type bloodline horses! 

Queenie is gentle, laid back, "honest" and _very _smart. I should say incredibly smart with an attitude to please. She also seems like she could really run. At first I just thought she didn't have the attitude to run, lazy and what not, but others have suggested that she just needs to get the hang of running/balance etc maybe just maturing a little more... Which I think might be her case. For an example, I've been ponying her off of Red for a couple of months, at first she didn't want to trot or run very much, was very bracey and maybe a little unsure. Now she is right where she's supposed to be, light on the lead line and canters right along side of Red. She still doesn't have the quick start like Red has or can go as long, but she is showing improvement.


----------



## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

I measured her today, she's 14hh and 1/2"...Do you think she'll grow to 15.hh? She has been a slow grower, just curious to see what your opinions are. The horse standing next to her is 15.hh.


----------



## Cynical25 (Mar 7, 2013)

There is still time, or so I'm hoping, lol. My March 2011 model is currently 14.2 and my long legs could really use 15hh...


----------



## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

I'm hoping so as well, I see a couple other AQHA two year olds are only 13.2-3hh so maybe she isn't too far off being 2 1/2yrs (which would add 1-1/2")? Anyway I'm doing my part by feeding her, she needs to keep up her end . Supposedly her sire throws 15.0-2hh foals, and I don't know what her dam throws, but assuming since her dam is a quarter horse and since she's got TB in her bloodlines that I would think her dam would be at least 14.3-15.hh?

Anyway we shall see.


----------



## steeldustgurl (Jan 3, 2014)

judging by her pedigree and height and if she puts alot of muscle on, you could look into cutting if that sparks your interest... I think she will mature around 14.2


----------



## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

Thanks for your opinion, on the good side of things I can probably get up on her fine, on the bad side 15.hh under is not very popular if I were to sell her. Oh well time will tell. I can't wait until spring/summer to try her out!


----------



## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

Anyway nothing to do with anything, but I re-measured Red, the gelding she is standing next to, and he is 15.2 1/2hh instead of the 15.hh I thought him to be (last time I measured was when we got him, he was 6yrs at the time).


----------



## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

So...she is NOT 14.1/2 hh...My math errors! She is 4' 10" which 4'x12=48", +10" =58 divided by 4"=14.5 which is 14.2hh correct? For what ever reason my brain transferred the 14.5 to be 14.1/2...Now I'm wondering if I measured the gelding right :think:.

Anyway if that is correct she may just reach 15.hh!


----------



## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

*Update*

Here is Queenie this year April/May photos, how is she coming along?


----------

