# Just wondering why........



## savvylover112 (Jul 17, 2009)

I just want to know from all you people out there who seem to go out of their way to read every Parelli thread even though they don't like Parelli and bash it down into the ground every time there is a Parelli thead. We are people just like you and we are doing something we love with our horses and my horses seem to love it so why do we get bashed for trying to share the thing we love doing with others who also love doing it? 

I have never seen a thread that spirithorse has posted that has not really had a bashing on it and I have to stand here and wonder why? why do you guys have to comment on it when you don't even like it? Why do you have to put us down all the time? Do you get kicks out of it? Does it make your day to put someone down? No offence but it is a form of online bullying I myself don't take it to heart and I just carry on with what I'm doing but there are other more sensitive people out there why put them down? What's in it for you? They aren't going to change their opinions and neither are you so why try to fight us? I just don't get it.

I know many people on the forum who don't agree with Parelli who are my friends but they let people do what they want with their horses and stay out of it because they don't agree with it but they know there will be no change in opinion on either side they know there is no point so why can't the some of you on the forum who try to get on Parelli people's nerves get that there is no point?

Shauna


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

Because some of us have been around a long long time and we know it doesn't work. It is for the medicore people trying to be trainers. I have never seen a well made horse using Parelli. And I have been around alot of boarding barns over the decades.

It is like someone complaining they get a head ache from banging their head against a wall. Tell them to stop and the pain will go away. 
We are just trying to tell you to stop banging your head.

As for Spirithorse?? I keep thinking back to the post on the vet approaching her horse without following her instructions on how to approach a horse. Sort of ask permission before to are allowed to touch me?? Trick training is also a part of it. She is part of the wall we are trying to get you away from.

People that get ahead, make exceptional horses don't use Parelli.

Parelli is only a marketing ploy.


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## ptvintage (Feb 12, 2010)

I don't post in very many Parelli threads, but I do read alot of them. I'd compare it to watching an accident taking place... it's horrible to see, but you can't look away... and you want to shout out help to make it stop... and then gawking at the aftermath of the destruction.


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## IllComeALopin (Apr 6, 2010)

RiosDad said:


> It is like someone complaining they get a head ache from banging their head against a wall. Tell them to stop and the pain will go away.
> We are just trying to tell you to stop banging your head.


OR you can buy this $60 _super duper-easy on-non slip-no turn_ head pad to absorb the shock; bang away my freinds... :lol:


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## Mike_User (Oct 24, 2006)

The Horse Forum Team has actually been discussing what to do about the fact that it seems members can't discuss Parelli in peace. On the one hand we want members to be able to discuss their interests without being... let's say harassed for lack of a better word at the moment... by others, and on the other hand we understand the concern of experienced members who have seen what embracing Parelli and turning a blind eye to other training methodologies can lead to.



RiosDad said:


> People that get ahead, make exceptional horses don't use Parelli


That may be the case, but it also may be something members need to discover for themselves. It may also be the case that certain members are more interested in Parelli than they are in exceptional horses. I'm not necessarily saying the two are mutually exclusive.

What does everyone think of adding a designated Parelli sub forum where members who have chosen Parelli can discuss Parelli without interjection from others? To address concerns you and others would likely have with such a scenario, RiosDad, there is a lot of information in many different areas here. If somebody were to choose to ignore _everything_ else here in favor of only what they find in a Parelli sub forum, your posts would likely not dissuade that person anyway.

People do use Parelli. People do enjoy Parelli. It may not be considered the best, the safest, or the smartest training methodology by everyone, but what does everyone think about allowing those that have chosen it a place to discuss it? *As a compromise*, what if there were only one sticky in the Parelli sub forum and it was a detailed thread _warning members who visit the Parelli sub forum of the alleged downsides of using Parelli_? Would those of you who are opposed to Parelli and post in Parelli threads consider that a fair compromise which would convey your message to everyone interested in Parelli without requiring you to interject in Parelli related threads? That would allow you to convey your message and allow members still interested in Parelli to discuss it.

I don't know if that will bring peace to the Middle East, but it would certainly help here. What does everyone think of the above?

Thanks,
Mike


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## IllComeALopin (Apr 6, 2010)

Administrator said:


> I don't know if that will bring peace to the Middle East, but it would certainly help here. What does everyone think of the above?


Honestly, I doubt it would help.

You made a Western Pleasure sub-forum thingy and 2/3 threads in there are complaining about western pleasure. :-|


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## savvylover112 (Jul 17, 2009)

RiosDad said:


> People that get ahead, make exceptional horses don't use Parelli.
> 
> Parelli is only a marketing ploy.


Thank you for telling me your opinion on the rest as for these two comments I feel I need to comment on for the first one people like David and Karen O'conner are using Parelli Robert Whitaker is using Parelli Walter Zettl is using it how are these people not people that are ahead?

I agree to some extent on the marketing it is very much over priced but it is not Pat controlling that Pat and Linda don't actually own the majority of the company I forget hgis name that does but he is the one that is controlling the prices.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Mike, a notice like that might actually help those who are looking for training ideas to realize that Parelli isn't the end-all be-all, one-size-fits-all majickal training method that it's touted to be. 

Unfortunately, since the people who are brainwashed by the Mustachioed One and his wife don't see that their gods have feet of clay, they're constantly trying to lure others into the cult.

I try to stay out of the Parelli threads because they always turn into trainwrecks, and they devolve into nothing more than name calling.

The Parellis neither invented nor perfected 'natural horsemanship'. All they did was perfect a massive marketing scheme to bilk their devoted followers out of money. As marketing geniuses, I applaud them. As horse trainers, I wouldn't let them anywhere near my animals.

I've actually come to despise the term 'natural horsemanship', because of its association with the Parellis and their ilk.


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## luvmyperch (Oct 5, 2009)

Would it help if there were a Parelli forum similar to the Saloon that you must be granted permission to be able to access? If we don't have access, we won't see threads on the New Post list, correct? Outta sight outta mind for the rest of us...


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

savvylover112 said:


> Thank you for telling me your opinion on the rest as for these two comments I feel I need to comment on for the first one people like David and Karen O'conner are using Parelli Robert Whitaker is using Parelli Walter Zettl is using it how are these people not people that are ahead?
> 
> I agree to some extent on the marketing it is very much over priced but it is not Pat controlling that Pat and Linda don't actually own the majority of the company I forget hgis name that does but he is the one that is controlling the prices.


Have you ever watched the DOG WHISPER?? If you know what you are looking for you will see it.. Watch the sun when he is working a dog?? Watch the sun tell how time passes? Watch how the dog suddenly reacts, over a commercial you will see a totally different behaving dog.
The dog was taken out behind the barn so to speak and given a lesson you don't see on TV
What you see as the finished product isn't always the method you see being diplayed.


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## IllComeALopin (Apr 6, 2010)

ps, David and Karen O'conner were ahead wayyy before they met parelli.


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## savvylover112 (Jul 17, 2009)

Oh I do know that they were but they still are and use Parelli now so just trying to make a point that people who are ahead are using it.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

IllComeALopin said:


> ps, David and Karen O'conner were ahead wayyy before they met parelli.


I also believe they've completely distanced themselves from the Parellis now, and claim no association.

Walter Zettl is a puzzle, since he was fairly well respected in the dressage community. That is, until he threw in his lot with the Parellis. People think he's only in it for the money, which he very well may be. Whatever the reason, his association with them has tarnished his reputation.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

I actually agree and disagree with OP. While the Parelli discussions do get too hot, lots of people commenting on actual trailing clips and tack/horsey stuff rip-off price-wise, not on people who do Parelli. 

I don't remember I ever jump on, say, Spirithorse, and her methods of training. Heck, if something work for you and your horse (whether it's Parelli, CA, or Joe backyard trainer, and I mean any safe and productive training, not using gimmicks or beat horse to submission) let it be! And it deserves a respect! However yes, I was pretty harsh in thread about LP training that half-blind horse. NOT BECAUSE SHE'S PARELLI! I didn't even know it till I saw other people comments. I commented only on bad IMO training, and I'd do exactly the same if it'd be CA, Ray, Cameron, or any other trainer (whether NH or jumping/dressage/cutting/whatever). 

Also I noticed -some- Parelli people are very pushy and disrestpectful towards other approaches. It's especially true for "certified Parelli" trainers. All they say Parelli is the only way to go and such. I have no problem with people believing it as long as they keep it to themself. However when such person starts to tell me I'm doing everything wrong and I have to go with Parelli, and everyone else is cruel, etc. etc. etc. it puts in pretty defensive mode.


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## romargrey (Apr 11, 2010)

All people are entitled to their opinion on an open forum. This is freedom of speech for all of us. If you don't agree with something but you wish to voice it, then all who read it beware of their emotional gut reaction to try to prove their own point. Stop being insecure in your reading of such voice as to allow yourself to get caught up in dribble that you don't believe . Don't defend or criticize as you are trying to control the open opinions of all who are involved. Be secure in yourself and what you believe. You don't have to bash anyone nor defend them. Be mature in who you are and what you have come to learn. After all this is a forum and personally if you want to get into it , take it into a personal chat room. Learn from everyone and decide for yourself what works and what doesn't for YOU. Why debate an issue parelli or non parelli, who really cares! Keep posting and getting information across . Stop wasting your time on dribble that you don't need to defend. Go train your horse and see what works for you !


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Administrator said:


> People do use Parelli. People do enjoy Parelli. It may not be considered the best, the safest, or the smartest training methodology by everyone, but what does everyone think about allowing those that have chosen it a place to discuss it? *As a compromise*, what if there were only one sticky in the Parelli sub forum and it was a detailed thread _warning members who visit the Parelli sub forum of the alleged downsides of using Parelli_? Would those of you who are opposed to Parelli and post in Parelli threads consider that a fair compromise which would convey your message to everyone interested in Parelli without requiring you to interject in Parelli related threads? That would allow you to convey your message and allow members still interested in Parelli to discuss it.


I don't oppose Parelli, and not very often post in Parelli threads, but (I guess I gonna sound rather harsh here) this sounds like "club for designated people only". Meaning if someone say post a bad training technique (which is dangerous), people can only say flowers and butterflies about it.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Administrator said:


> What does everyone think of adding a designated Parelli sub forum where members who have chosen Parelli can discuss Parelli without interjection from others?
> People do use Parelli. People do enjoy Parelli. It may not be considered the best, the safest, or the smartest training methodology by everyone, but what does everyone think about allowing those that have chosen it a place to discuss it? *As a compromise*, what if there were only one sticky in the Parelli sub forum and it was a detailed thread _warning members who visit the Parelli sub forum of the alleged downsides of using Parelli_? Would those of you who are opposed to Parelli and post in Parelli threads consider that a fair compromise which would convey your message to everyone interested in Parelli without requiring you to interject in Parelli related threads? That would allow you to convey your message and allow members still interested in Parelli to discuss it.


Nope. Then you will have to add a sub forum for every trainer out there.


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## Mike_User (Oct 24, 2006)

Thank you to the members who actually addressed my post/proposal.



Speed Racer said:


> Mike, a notice like that might actually help those who are looking for training ideas to realize that Parelli isn't the end-all be-all, one-size-fits-all majickal training method that it's touted to be.
> 
> Unfortunately, since the people who are brainwashed by the Mustachioed One and his wife don't see that their gods have feet of clay, they're constantly trying to lure others into the cult. . . .


If Parelli had its own sub forum and Parelli related posts were _only _in that sub forum, those interested in Parelli would discuss it there and only there. That would leave room for other, non-Parelli techniques to be discussed in the Natural Horsemanship fourm. Also, since Parelli related posts would not be found elsewhere on the forum, no members could "lure" anyone else to Parelli from any part of the site.



luvmyperch said:


> Would it help if there were a Parelli forum similar to the Saloon that you must be granted permission to be able to access? If we don't have access, we won't see threads on the New Post list, correct? Outta sight outta mind for the rest of us...


I think that putting Parelli related threads in a Parelli sub forum should be "out of sight, out of mind" enough. If members don't like Parelli, they should avoid the Parelli sub forum. 



kitten_Val said:


> I don't oppose Parelli, and not very often post in Parelli threads, but (I guess I gonna sound rather harsh here) this sounds like "club for designated people only". Meaning if someone say post a bad training technique (which is dangerous), people can only say flowers and butterflies about it.


Nobody is looking to create a special club for Parelli followers. However, Parelli followers should be able to discuss Parelli, right? Currently, it seems they cannot. As I explained, if we add a Parelli sub forum we would have a _single_ sticky in it (so that it could not be ignored) which would detail all of the reasons members recommend Parelli be avoided. Our staunchest Parelli opponents can even help write it to ensure their message is sent.

What's the alternative? Driving those who want to discuss Parelli off the site?



mls said:


> Nope. Then you will have to add a sub forum for every trainer out there.


From what I understand, no other popular trainer/methodology is quite as controversial so I don't think it would come to this.



IllComeALopin said:


> Honestly, I doubt it would help.
> 
> You made a Western Pleasure sub-forum thingy and 2/3 threads in there are complaining about western pleasure. :-|


I, and I believe the rest of the Horse Forum Team, were unaware of issues in the Western Pleasure sub forum. We will look into it and I encourage you to post about any other issues you observe in the Pow Wow forum. We're here to help when there are problems, but we rely on members to alert us to them. In any event, that is a different issue.

What does everyone think?

Thanks,
Mike


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I have to agree with MLS. 

Are you going to make a separate forum for each trainer and training style where no one is allowed to tell you that your ways are going to hurt you and your horse?

There are times in every section where it seems like any post on a particular subject causes a train wreck. 

Heck, why do we not have separate slaughter and no slaughter sections where the other camp is not allowed to post? (No, I do not think this is a good idea either.)

Edit to add - With a forum just for Parelli, does that mean the Parelli people can not jump on the rest of us in other training posts?


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## savvylover112 (Jul 17, 2009)

Thank you Mike for your recommendation I think it would be a good idea because as you said Mike we can't post about it without being harrassed as you said. 

Why would there be a need for sub forums for every other trainer when if someone mentions another trainer they don't get bashed straight away we do get bashed straight away for trying to share things.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Administrator said:


> What's the alternative? Driving those who want to discuss Parelli off the site?
> 
> 
> What does everyone think?


There are many issues that are repeated and repeated and repeated and could have their own sub forum (slaughter comes to mind). I simply choose to ignore the threads. Other members can follow the same or like approach with PP - or other topics (or posters).


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

I think it would be a sad comment if the Parelli people had to have their own sub forum where they can discuss training. It would also have a negative effect of not exposing them to the training ideas of others who may not have Parelli backgrounds thus severely restricting the breadth of suggestions posted.

Maybe everyone needs to have more of an open mind: Parelli people may need to accept that there may be flaws in some of their techniques and Non Parelli's don't need to jump down anyone's throats if they don't agree with the methods. After all no one is threatning to train YOUR horse in a way you don't agree with right?

Whilst I am not someone who practices Parelli techniques I would like to think that I would try any training technique if it made good sense to me, Parelli or not.

Also I think people drastically underestimate the severity of the typed word, when you speak to someone personally most of the communication is visual i.e. facial expression body language etc. When reading typed responses they can appear much colder so we need to be aware of that (in all forums).


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

I think the only way the issue would be solved is if people learned to exercise a little self control. Rather than either party discounting the other, the best thing would be if people were willing to listen to each other without the bashing. By all means voice an opinion, but try to do it in an intelligent, thoughtful way and if someone disagrees, do so respectfully. 

I think creating a sub-forum may, in some ways, increase the animosity towards Parelli followers in other parts of the forum. And unfortunately, due to the lack of control exercised by some, I honestly don't think the bashing would stop. There are some people that would follow the sub-forum looking for a fight.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

luvmyperch said:


> Would it help if there were a Parelli forum similar to the Saloon that you must be granted permission to be able to access? If we don't have access, we won't see threads on the New Post list, correct? Outta sight outta mind for the rest of us...


The reason I personally have an issue with this thought is that I feel it is important for people that are looking for advice, to actually receive advice from all aspects of the horse world.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

mls said:


> There are many issues that are repeated and repeated and repeated and could have their own sub forum (slaughter comes to mind).


And actually breeding is one of them. There are debates and heat up discussions there all the time. But personally I don't think creating "I want to breed my mare and don't come if you are against it" sub forum would be such a great idea. :lol:


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Administrator said:


> *What's the alternative? *Driving those who want to discuss Parelli off the site?


I don't think there is any. Sorry, Mike! :lol:


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

savvylover112 said:


> Thank you for telling me your opinion on the rest as for these two comments I feel I need to comment on for the first one people like David and Karen O'conner are using Parelli Robert Whitaker is using Parelli Walter Zettl is using it how are these people not people that are ahead?


 
Exceptional horsemen have exceptional horses regardless of what methods they use. They didn't start winning when they met Parreli and they haven't won any more frequently since.


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## Scoutrider (Jun 4, 2009)

HowClever said:


> I think the only way the issue would be solved is if people learned to exercise a little self control. Rather than either party discounting the other, the best thing would be if people were willing to listen to each other without the bashing. By all means voice an opinion, but try to do it in an intelligent, thoughtful way and if someone disagrees, do so respectfully.
> 
> I think creating a sub-forum may, in some ways, increase the animosity towards Parelli followers in other parts of the forum. And unfortunately, due to the lack of control exercised by some, I honestly don't think the bashing would stop. There are some people that would follow the sub-forum looking for a fight.


I agree with the above. As it is, I suspect that some "lurking" occurs in the NH forum as it currently stands. 

I generally refrain from posting in Parelli-specific threads, although I do read most of them. Opinions are wonderful things, and everyone has one. What concerns me the most is when someone posts something and asks specifically that no one critique it, and people start bashing away. I'm all for spirited debate, but I'd also like to see that if an OP explicitly asks for critique-free replies or constructive PNH(or otherwise)-based responses only, that those wishes are honored. 

It's a shame that we can't exercise a little live-and-let-live mentality on some of these topics. PNH is here to stay, and I have no more problem with my neighbor doing Parelli than I do if they do reining, jumping, WP, or any other discipline. Yes, there will be posts with advice based on PNH techniques, just like there are posts based on classical dressage, or reining techniques. So what? The variety of responses is one of the reasons that I'm a member of the forum. I can read what several training backgrounds have to say on a given subject and apply what "speaks" to me and to my horse.


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## Mike_User (Oct 24, 2006)

Thank you for the feedback, everyone. It would seem that the best "solution" is for everyone to try to heed the advice sarahver and HowClever suggested, which is essentially what we've been encouraging from the beginning.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

If someone wants to discuss Parreli with other Kool-aid drinkers then there are several Parreli centered forums on the internet that will tell them how great they are to be able to jump a barrel after only two years and $3000 worth of equipment, instruction and DVD series. 

If I wanted to breed a mare I would NOT post a picture of her here and ask opinions unless she had already foaled six world champion reiners and a Kentucky Derby winner. I would go to a horse breeders forum and ask thier opinions. The great thing about internet forums is that there is one for just about every topic you can imagine and most of them are free.


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## IllComeALopin (Apr 6, 2010)

kevinshorses said:


> If I wanted to breed a mare I would NOT post a picture of her here and ask opinions unless she had already foaled six world champion reiners and a Kentucky Derby winner.


Haha, so true. Many people would still complain that your mare and stallion of choice aren't good enough and then the thread would turn into a slaughter debate... like all the others.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

For what it's worth, here are my









This forum has its ways and ideologies that are fairly static. We have a wealth of knowledge, to be sure, but you can definitely see a trend with this board, for instance, we are:
- Anti-harsh training methods
- Pro-slaughter (for the most part) 
- Anti-harsh bits, pro-snaffle 
- Anti-breeding crap horses
- Anti-radical training methods (eg: Rollkur, "rapping.")
- Anti-gadget
- Anti-Parelli (for the most part)
Each board has its dynamics. Another board I belong to is not completely against starting long yearlings (yech) and is okay with sticking a twisted wire hack/gag combo in a barrel horse's mouth, and starting colts on a shanked bit. Completely different dynamics, but it works for that board. 
What I am trying to say is that you simply cannot please everyone, no matter how hard you try. 
My bottom line? There are pro-Parelli boards that people have access to where they can get positive reinforcement from other Parelli followers. Harsh? Probably. Reality? Definitely. 
I guess what I'm trying to say is: would we create a hidden sub-forum for other controversial training methods? In my eyes, Parelli can be detrimental for the horse... not unlike Rollkur, which this board is very much against. If we wouldn't create a hidden subforum for Rollkur advocates (some people are fine with using Rollkur/hyperflexion), why should there be a Parelli hidden subforum? 

In my opinion, Parelli-type training can have a place in the horse world. It has helped some people, for sure - but usually those people employ the Parelli method alongside other training methods. 
My biggest concern with creating a password-protected, or "limited access" part of the forum is that Parelli people not getting any input from anyone else but another Parelli follower, which means that the information is fairly static, and they might miss out on a non-Parelli method that would work for the individual and their horse. Parelli simply cannot be a be-all, end-all method. It is not dynamic enough. It does work for some horses in certain scenarios but it simply cannot be "The One" training method that someone uses.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

kevinshorses said:


> If I wanted to breed a mare I would NOT post a picture of her here and ask opinions unless she had already foaled six world champion reiners and a Kentucky Derby winner.


Not to turn the conversation any... but when a suitable (by this forum's standards) mare is presented on the board, members are actually very encouraging to the member. Stallions are held to a higher degree standard, but those with exceptional stallions are respected.
The only problem is that the suitable mares asked about in the Breeding section get little attention, and amass to about 2 or 3 pages, whereas crap mares get jumped on by everyone and their dog. 
Like I said.... board dynamics.


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## IllComeALopin (Apr 6, 2010)

So... becuase this board is very anti-western pleasure I should go to another forum? 

Even though thats 1 out of 100 things this horse and I enjoy? :-|


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## savvylover112 (Jul 17, 2009)

IllComeALopin that is what it seems like if that is the case then maybe I should leave or maybe just never start a thread with the word Parelli in it again it never turns out well.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

This board is anti WP? When did that happen? 

I guess I didn't notice, since I only ride English disciplines.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

IllComeALopin said:


> So... becuase this board is very anti-western pleasure I should go to another forum?
> 
> Even though thats 1 out of 100 things this horse and I enjoy? :-|


No, and I hope I didn't come across that way. You have my apologies if I did. There are certain "hot button" topics on this forum, though, that this forum follows a trend by.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

savvylover112 said:


> IllComeALopin that is what it seems like if that is the case then maybe I should leave or maybe just never start a thread with the word Parelli in it again it never turns out well.


I'm sorry if I've offended anyone with my post, that was not my intention at all. I was simply pointing out that this board (along with every board out there) has its "norm." There is a board out there for almost everything, providing a wealth of knowledge from every corner of the horse world, both good and bad. I've been to boards that are absolutely fine with breeding crap horses. I've been to boards that are fine with starting long yearlings. I've been to boards that are okay with some harsh bits that I don't even understand why they're in existence. I don't stay with those boards, or I don't post much, because it is not my cup of tea, and I KNOW that I will get jumped on for saying something against the board norm. 
HOWEVER we must understand that there will always be "hot button" topics, within almost every aspect of horse training and care. For instance, anytime someone brings up: Rollkur (dressage), starting 2 year olds (reining), peanut rollers (WP), rapping (jumping), harsh bits (any discipline), training gadgets (any discipline), or breeding (any discipline), you can almost be guaranteed that there will be a lengthy discussion about it. 
Each person is entitled to their opinion. Keep in mind that lovely phrase "your right to swing your fist ends at my face."


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## savvylover112 (Jul 17, 2009)

Oh I wasn't really saying that in response to your post Allie well kind of but you didn't offend me what you said just kind of backed up what Kevin had said earlier about going to different forums for different things. I see your point that there is hot topics but is there a need to bash on someone just because things are going well with their horses with the Parelli program?


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

JustDressageIt said:


> There are certain "hot button" topics on this forum, though, that this forum follows a trend by.


JDI, it's not just endemic to HF, all BBs have 'trends'.

There's a BB on which I'm active that isn't someplace a Parelli follower would want to go because it's _very_ anti Parelli, and the posters make no bones about that fact. In fact, Parelli followers are openly ridiculed.

Anyone can go to any BB on the web and join, but why would anyone _want_ to stay somewhere and shout from the rooftops about a belief, especially when the natives aren't receptive and can be downright hostile?

This same BB has its contingent of anti slaughter folks, although the majority have no problem with equine slaughter, and an anti needs a very strong constitution in order to argue their points over there.

I don't like the, 'happy fluffy bunny and we can't ever have a difference of opinion' BBs. Those don't lead to real discussions; just people blowing sunshine up each other's bums. 

I'd rather have the difference of opinions, even if they can and do get a little heated at times.

Savvy, if Parelli works for your horse, good for you. IMHO it's pretty much just smoke, mirrors, and a lot of cash outlay for 'tools' that you can buy cheaply or even make yourself.

Good training is good training, and I've yet to see a decently trained animal where the trainer used only ONE method. The best training incorporates tidbits from each and every method, and uses what works for _that_ particular horse at _that_ particular time. 

Saying that Parelli, or any method for that matter, is the ONLY thing that will work with every horse every time is just flat wrong.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

savvylover112 said:


> IllComeALopin that is what it seems like if that is the case then maybe I should leave or maybe just never start a thread with the word Parelli in it again it never turns out well.


If what you want is an honest opinion about PNH then you will get plenty of those. If you want some warm and fuzzies and a pat on the back for riding your horse in an overpriced halter then you will have to go someplace else. 

It's the same if you post a video of a WP horse dragging a leg and say what a beutiful lope it has. You will get alot of disagreement. If you want people to say how nicely the horse is moving then you need to post on a WP forum.


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## IllComeALopin (Apr 6, 2010)

JustDressageIt said:


> No, and I hope I didn't come across that way. You have my apologies if I did. There are certain "hot button" topics on this forum, though, that this forum follows a trend by.


No, I really get your point... 

Its just I can count at least 3 threads going on right now that are pretty much all negative comments about western pleasure... and as I said earlier even in the western pleasure sub-forum there 2 out of the 3 posts are anti-wp.

If you don't like western pleasure WHY do you feel the need to post in the wp sub-forum stating so!? I simply don't get it.... its not even like Its an open wester riding forum topic... its IN the western pleasure sub-forum :lol:.


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## savvylover112 (Jul 17, 2009)

IllComeALopin said:


> No, I really get your point...
> 
> Its just I can count at least 3 threads going on right now that are pretty much all negative comments about western pleasure... and as I said earlier even in the western pleasure sub-forum there 2 out of the 3 posts are anti-wp.
> 
> If you don't like western pleasure WHY do you feel the need to post in the wp sub-forum stating so!? I simply don't get it.... its not even like Its an open wester riding forum topic... its IN the western pleasure sub-forum :lol:.


That is exactly what I want to know why do people feel the need to post in sub forums or forums that they don't even like?


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

IllComeALopin said:


> No, I really get your point...
> 
> Its just I can count at least 3 threads going on right now that are pretty much all negative comments about western pleasure... and as I said earlier even in the western pleasure sub-forum there 2 out of the 3 posts are anti-wp.
> 
> If you don't like western pleasure WHY do you feel the need to post in the wp sub-forum stating so!? I simply don't get it.... its not even like Its an open wester riding forum topic... its IN the western pleasure sub-forum :lol:.


I just want to take a moment to remind everyone of the little [!] box at the bottom of every post, it is next to the little green or grey "online status" for most browsers, and it is at the bottom of the page for the Mobile site as well. This little [!] is there for members to click when they see a post containing overt bashing, rude posts, foul language, harassment, or even things like blatant advertising or inappropriate content. Clicking the little [!] and submitting your complaint will alert a moderator to come and check that thread out and make a judgement call. Unfortunately even though the Super Mods are indeed Super, they can't be in every place all the time, or see every single thread, and they do appreciate a heads-up if a thread is going South, or has started off at the Equator already (figuratively speaking)


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

IllComeALopin said:


> If you don't like western pleasure WHY do you feel the need to post in the wp sub-forum stating so!? I simply don't get it.... its not even like Its an open wester riding forum topic... its IN the western pleasure sub-forum :lol:.


I personally just hit the New Posts button and browse that way. I do not pay any attention to what forum it's in. If others do the same thing, they are just responding to what is on the list!


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Speed Racer said:


> JDI, it's not just endemic to HF, all BBs have 'trends'.
> Exactly! Some BBs I'm a member of, I don't post very often, as they are very opinionated. Some BBs I read just to keep up on information about certain topics, and I never post because it is against my personal ideologies, but is something that is perfectly acceptable at that BB.
> 
> There's a BB on which I'm active that isn't someplace a Parelli follower would want to go because it's _very_ anti Parelli, and the posters make no bones about that fact. In fact, Parelli followers are openly ridiculed.
> ...


My replies in Blue...


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## IllComeALopin (Apr 6, 2010)

JustDressageIt said:


> I just want to take a moment to remind everyone of the little [!] box at the bottom of every post, it is next to the little green or grey "online status" for most browsers, and it is at the bottom of the page for the Mobile site as well. This little [!] is there for members to click when they see a post containing overt bashing, rude posts, foul language, harassment, or even things like blatant advertising or inappropriate content. Clicking the little [!] and submitting your complaint will alert a moderator to come and check that thread out and make a judgement call. Unfortunately even though the Super Mods are indeed Super, they can't be in every place all the time, or see every single thread, and they do appreciate a heads-up if a thread is going South, or has started off at the Equator already (figuratively speaking)


So if there is a thread started in the wp sub-forum that clearly has the only intent on being negative about the class... a super mod will delete it if I report it?

I know if I post videos or photos of myself I am putting myself on the chopping block... which is fine thats why I don't do it. 
But I should be able to ask advice about my WP training questions without being told over and over again how negative and dangerous it is for my horse...


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## IllComeALopin (Apr 6, 2010)

mls said:


> I personally just hit the New Posts button and browse that way. I do not pay any attention to what forum it's in. If others do the same thing, they are just responding to what is on the list!


When you reply it says where the post/thread is if you look up top... its not hard to find and does not take much time.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

IllComeALopin said:


> When you reply it says where the post/thread is if you look up top... its not hard to find and does not take much time.


It does take time to open every forum. So the new posts list is a good short cut. On the new posts list - the forum is on the right hand side.

As I mentioned - this is my method of browsing. I am sure I am not the only one. I read topics that interest me.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

IllComeALopin said:


> So if there is a thread started in the wp sub-forum that clearly has the only intent on being negative about the class... a super mod will delete it if I report it?
> 
> I know if I post videos or photos of myself I am putting myself on the chopping block... which is fine thats why I don't do it.
> But I should be able to ask advice about my WP training questions without being told over and over again how negative and dangerous it is for my horse...


If you report it, a Super Mod will be alerted of the report and will make their way over to that thread, assess the situation, and take action based on what their assessment yields.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

savvylover112 said:


> That is exactly what I want to know why do people feel the need to post in sub forums or forums that they don't even like?


The same reason people post topics that they know will ellicit a strong reaction. Every time some posts a thread about what kind of Natural Horaemanship to try I try to beat Spirithorse to the punch and say Parreli but I have yet to do it. There are several things that are really predictable on this forum. Parreli, breeding and slaughter threads are the most predictable. If you have read this forum for more than two days and can't tell that then you may have deeper problems than a thin skin. There is no need to whine about being picked on.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

mls said:


> It does take time to open every forum. So the new posts list is a good short cut. On the new posts list - the forum is on the right hand side.
> 
> As I mentioned - this is my method of browsing. I am sure I am not the only one. I read topics that interest me.


I do the same. Very rarely will I go into the forum topic-by-topic. I watch the threads that come up on my User CP and New Posts.... so I probably do miss out on a few good discussions. Perhaps I should start browsing sub-forum by sub-forum again...


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

IllComeALopin said:


> So if there is a thread started in the wp sub-forum that clearly has the only intent on being negative about the class... a super mod will delete it if I report it?


Not necessarily. 

Deletion of posts or an entire thread is completely up to the Mods and Admin, not just because a particular poster isn't happy with the way the thread is going.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

JustDressageIt said:


> I do the same. Very rarely will I go into the forum topic-by-topic. I watch the threads that come up on my User CP and New Posts.... so I probably do miss out on a few good discussions. Perhaps I should start browsing sub-forum by sub-forum again...


I figure if they are 'hot' enough - they show up on the new posts list - frequently!


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## savvylover112 (Jul 17, 2009)

I'm not whining I just want to know why as you put it we are picked on?


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

mls said:


> I personally just hit the New Posts button and browse that way. I do not pay any attention to what forum it's in. If others do the same thing, they are just responding to what is on the list!


That's exactly what I do. I sometimes find myself responding to topics in the english forum or about eventing because I don't look at what sub-forum it is on.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

mls said:


> I figure if they are 'hot' enough - they show up on the new posts list - frequently!


Hahahah! Yes! Me too.... this one has been at the top of both my User CP and New Posts for the past hour...:wink:


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

savvylover112 said:


> I'm not whining I just want to know why as you put it we are picked on?


Again, I think it just boils down to board dynamics. In some circles, it's perfectly acceptable to use draw reins on a curb bit -- here, that person would likely be jumped on/picked on. This board has certain values near and dear to its core, as with any BB, that's what it thrives on.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

I, too, use the "new posts" option for browsing and usually don't even notice what forum the post is in. I see a title that catches my eye, read the post and respond with whatever my thoughts on the subject are.


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

*Sub-forum PLUS Free Speech on the Forum!*

Have a Parelli sub-forum for* Parelli-lovers only* (it_ would_ be a relief to discuss your training issues within PP's program, without the bashing, what to speak _constructive_ for solving those issues!), but also allow* both* parties to post/debate on all outside threads! Why allow the free-for-all? 1) Some folks might learn something/get entertainment value/sharpen their debating skills 2) Free speech is a precious American liberty; we all should be able to exercise it, at least concerning *horses!* Don't talk politics, religion, or* Parelli*?:rofl:


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

*QUESTION TO "PARELLI FOLKS":*

*When you are posting a problem, whatever it may be, What exactly are you looking for? *

I would assume it would be advice on handling the situation. I would think you'd also be looking for a "cause and effect". This is what members on this forum are trying to offer. Are you saying that you only want advice from NH people? or ONLY from Parelli people? Because if that's the case, simply put, you are on the wrong forum. 

This forum welcomes all trainging methods, styles of riding, techniques, people from many countries with all types of upbringings. There are no lines in this forum. As long as the advice and practices given are safe to the rider, owner, and horse.


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## savvylover112 (Jul 17, 2009)

Not at all farmpony the point is the threads I have seen being bashed from people who seem to love bashing us were not asking about problems and such if it were a problem I would welcome advice from anyone and anywhere but its the point of posting to say we are getting on well with our horses in the program and we get bashed.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

JustDressageIt said:


> For what it's worth, here are my
> 
> 
> 
> ...


but isnt that exactly why there should be a parelli sub forum ? if people who want to talk about parelli with out getting harassed have to go to another forum then they will not get the wealth of knowledge on this forum !

that being said i dont think it should be locked, just another subforum


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Honestly, I don't see the benefit of any locked/hidden/selective forums. It's quite simple really, if you post, expect feedback from all perspectives. If you don't like the feedback someone gives, ignore it. I, for one, appreciate knowing that I will get multiple perspectives (even those that disagree with my own) because you just might learn something along the way.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Thank you, mac. I completely agree.

Giving someone a 'hidden' subforum that needs a secret password and handshake to get into just encourages segregation.

Instead of doing that, why don't the folks who just want to hear the same opinions from like minded people start their own blogs, and limit readership?

We already have so many subforums now it's ridiculous!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I will 3rd or 10th or whatever number the theory that if you are the type that only wants to hear your system is the bestest in the whole world then please discuss that system on a forum that is based in that system.

If you are open to an open discussion based on the clientele of this BB then ask here.

It is unfair to expect a BB whose general theories are a certain way to simply drop that way of thinking because someone comes along and gets upset because all the people are mean and do not want to hear their point of view.

That is like joining a vegetarian BB and proclaiming that people who do not eat mean are stupid.


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

*Sub-forum, yes; locked forum, no!*

_I'd_ want to be able to see what the Parelli students are discussing, even though I wouldn't be posting due to less than 100% allegiance to PP. Plus, in creating a forum for PP students right here, they could more easily see what the rest of the folks have to offer, should they choose to.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

gypsygirl said:


> but isnt that exactly why there should be a parelli sub forum ? if people who want to talk about parelli with out getting harassed have to go to another forum then they will not get the wealth of knowledge on this forum !
> 
> that being said i dont think it should be locked, just another subforum


There is a subforum for NATURAL HORSEMANSHIP. The Parellis are natural horsemanship trainers. They belong under natural horsemanship.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> That is like joining a vegetarian BB and proclaiming that people who do not eat mean are stupid.


I think anyone who doesn't eat mean meat is stupid.

Seriously, why _wouldn't _you want to eat a mean cow that attacked you, or a mean chicken that spurred or pecked you? 

I used to love to go crabbing when I lived near the Chesapeake Bay. The fact that those nasty crabs fought, made it even sweeter when they were steamed and turned into delicious food. 

Thank you, Farmpony. The voice of reason in the asylum!


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

farmpony84 said:


> There is a subforum for NATURAL HORSEMANSHIP. The Parellis are natural horsemanship trainers. They belong under natural horsemanship.


That was what had me scratching my head a bit


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## Mike_User (Oct 24, 2006)

Speed Racer said:


> Giving someone a 'hidden' subforum that needs a secret password and handshake to get into just encourages segregation.


To be sure, I wasn't suggesting we create a password protected or otherwise hidden sub forum. In any event, I mentioned in a previous post that based on some good points made my members it didn't seem adding a Parelli sub forum was the best solution at this time.



farmpony84 said:


> There is a subforum for NATURAL HORSEMANSHIP. The Parellis are natural horsemanship trainers. They belong under natural horsemanship.


Does everyone agree, then, that members should be able to discuss their interest in Parelli in the Natural Horsemanship forum without fearing harassment, i.e., other members pouncing on them and saying mean things just because Parelli was mentioned? Safety concerns are one thing, but snark and contempt from those who don't like Parelli merely for the sake of snark and contempt are another...
​


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Administrator said:


> Does everyone agree, then, that members should be able to discuss their interest in Parelli in the Natural Horsemanship forum without fearing harassment, i.e., other members pouncing on them and saying mean things just because Parelli was mentioned? Safety concerns are one thing, but snark and contempt from those who don't like Parelli merely for the sake of snark and contempt are another...
> ​


I think a lot of it has to do with give and take... if someone stumbles upon a Parelli thread and sees a problem that another methodology might fix, and suggests such a method, they can be met with snark and contempt -- then it kind of degrades to a ****ing match...


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## Mike_User (Oct 24, 2006)

JustDressageIt said:


> I think a lot of it has to do with give and take... if someone stumbles upon a Parelli thread and sees a problem that another methodology might fix, and suggests such a method, they can be met with snark and contempt -- then it kind of degrades to a ****ing match...


So how about this... Parelli fans, please don't take suggestions that don't involve Parelli as an attack and reply with snark and contempt. Members who don't care for Parelli, comment in a Parelli related thread when you have something helpful to share, but not merely for the sake of snark and contempt. When either "party" does find itself addressing the other, make an effort to do so civilly. It might just go a long way...

Is that something everyone can live with?


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## goldilockz (Aug 1, 2008)

I disagree with the perception that Parellites are oh so persecuted. It goes both ways. I asked a simple question a few months ago about Parelli, "What is a carrot stick?", and was treated as though I were questioning whether Jesus was real because I didn't understand why it was an expensive piece of tack that appeared to me to be a simple crop or whip.

I'm not denying that there are those who immediately get snarky regarding Parelli, but I would like to cast a light on the Parellites who treat anyone questioning the methods as lower life forms. I haven't seen that kind of reaction in any other training thread. Other training method followers tend to try to educate people who are asking questions, rather than get immediately defensive and rude.


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## goldilockz (Aug 1, 2008)

lol Admin posted as I was typing :lol:


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Unfortunately, this whole thing is just a product of being a member on a worldwide forum that isn't geared toward any specific breed or discipline or training method. There will always be those people like myself, Riosdad, and Kevin that think Parelli is a joke and there are much easier and quicker methods to get the desired reaction from a horse. There will always be those like spirithorse that swear up and down that Parelli is the only and best way. There will always be conflict and arguments, it's human nature.

I am not trying to chase anyone off but if I wanted some good information on a particular thing, I would join a forum that was geared toward that particular thing instead of a board where there are only 3 or 4 members that share your views. If I wanted to ask a specific question about a game in level 3 parelli, then I would find a forum that was made up of dozens or hundreds of people who do parelli and understand the program. If I wanted to ask a specific parelli question here, I would likely just pm spirithorse because she is the person with, by far, the most parelli knowledge on this forum.

I search through the board by using the "new posts" button as well and many times I don't even notice which sub-forum a thread is in before I go to it. There have been many times when I have gone to a thread and after reading the OP, known that it would eventually end in bloodbath so I just backed out and ignored it after that, regardless of how many pages it grew to. However, there are others that I have read and saw something that I thought should really be pointed out just to give some posters another point of view, so I posted there.

That, IMHO, is one of the great things about this forum. Even if a person asks for a specific thing, sometimes they get advice on something different that really makes sense and really helps them. Even if the OP doesn't get anything from a thread, sometimes a visiting person or another member will see something worthwhile that will help them. Like someone above me said, the mods can't be in every thread all the time and if you see a post that you deem inappropriate or overly aggressive, then use the Report Post feature. It will give you the option of saying why you thing the post is offensive and then the mods can decide what to do about it. If you don't like the decision that they make, you can pm them and discuss it. That is one incredible thing about our moderating team is that they are all approachable and will listen to your problem with an open mind.


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## Sonnyx12 (Oct 26, 2009)

Administrator said:


> So how about this... Parelli fans, please don't take suggestions that don't involve Parelli as an attack and reply with snark and contempt. Members who don't care for Parelli, comment in a Parelli related thread when you have something helpful to share, but not merely for the sake of snark and contempt. When either "party" does find itself addressing the other, make an effort to do so civilly. It might just go a long way...
> 
> Is that something everyone can live with?


i think that would be the nice way to go about it, but i dont see it helping at all. have you really looked to see how down right degrading and hurtful some of these people are? im not sure about anyone else but i dont walk around in my city bashing everyone for what they wear, who they hang out with, what religion they are and what not. yeah inside i might think whoa that guy is a freak but that doesnt give me the right to go up to his face and tell him what a horrible person he is and that he can't do anything right in life. 

i understand that this is a big forum and there are always going to be conflicts of interest, just like in the real world. i dont think the problems with parelli here will ever be solved. which is a shame. i love spirthorse's work and enjoy parelli myself. but i refuse to post or comment on anything here because i know ill catch hell for it. telling people to be nice is a good start, but judging on the way some of these people act, it isn't going to solve anything.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

farmpony84 said:


> There is a subforum for NATURAL HORSEMANSHIP. The Parellis are natural horsemanship trainers. They belong under natural horsemanship.


but people talking about other NH topics are not harassed in the same way ! i too would like to talk about parelli with people on here. im not a die hard parelli fan but i still want to learn ! you cant even mention the P word with out getting jumped on here...


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Administrator said:


> So how about this... Parelli fans, please don't take suggestions that don't involve Parelli as an attack and reply with snark and contempt. Members who don't care for Parelli, comment in a Parelli related thread when you have something helpful to share, but not merely for the sake of snark and contempt. When either "party" does find itself addressing the other, make an effort to do so civilly. It might just go a long way...
> 
> Is that something everyone can live with?


Missed this thread but here is my opinion for what it is worth.

First in spite of my opinion about Parelli it was I that talked to Admin about having a HN sub forum. This was after an avid Parelli follower left and no one wanted a NH forum here.

It was my hope that ALL NH techniques would be discussed, not just have the forum taken over by Parelli. That didn't happen and while I am disappointed that it has not widen its area of discussion I have pretty much ignored Parelli threads. This does not mean I haven't read them and I have posted when I felt a training procedure was in error or needed clarification.

There is a huge difference in pointing out something that goes against your thinking and baiting and posting for the sheer sake of disrupting a thread or getting under someones skin. Unfortunately it isn't always non Parelli people that are guilty of this. A simple question I asked one Parelli member that was just that ...a simple question as to why another trainer wouldn't be on their list was taken as an attack. And this wasn't in the NH section but the dressage section. Totally over defensive and out of line.

So guilt lays on both sides. Since then this person has pretty well stayed in her corner and went on their own path ( as far as me is concerned).

My point is that if this person and myself can do it then others can also.

How to resolve this problem? 

I am admin on my own forum and as such any member that purposefully disrupted a thread got a warning or infraction, but that is me....I have been accused of being harsh but rules sometimes needs to be enforced with something greater than a "don't do it".


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

*"Can everyone agree to be nice?"*

Sure, everyone_ agrees_ to :rofl:be nice, but don't hold your breath! Perhaps when the administrators have gone mad :twisted:trying to figure out who was snarky & who was nice:???::think:, they'll set up the PP sub-forum! PP *is* the "politics & religion" area of the horse world: let's not pretend that PP arouses no stronger emotions than GaWaNi Pony Boy or Frank Bell, & therefore needs no special consideration/treatment on a forum such as this.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

gypsygirl said:


> but people talking about other NH topics are not harassed in the same way ! i too would like to talk about parelli with people on here. im not a die hard parelli fan but i still want to learn ! you cant even mention the P word with out getting jumped on here...


There is absolutely no way for me to respond to this post without coming across as argumentative and snarky so I apoligize for that in advance, it is not my intent.

It is my most humble opinion that "Parelli folks" are somewhat close-minded and not really open to any suggestions other than those that are of the Parelli nature and that is where I personally see a problem. The Parellis are NH trainers. They've created some games and some levels but their concept is NH. Parelli itself is not a training method, nor is it an ideal all it's own, it is the name of a man and women that use the NH training method. 

There are a ton of members on this forum, no, I take that back, I believe EVERY member on this forum uses methods that can be found in just about any NH trainers scheme. And I do agree with a previous poster that stated that Parelli folks do go on the defensive much too quickly. 

I think Administrators idea of respecting each other is the best route to take. I also think that the REPORT POST feature is an important application on this forum. If someone posts something that you feel is snarky or nasty, then ignore them. Hit the report post button, explain your feelings and let the mods handle it. I promise you, we review EVERY reported post and handle alot of issues behind the seens.

Why don't we give the suggested rule a try?


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

^^ IME its people who think parelli folks are close minded are the ones who cause these posters to get defensive... but its not one person or one group, it takes two to tango..

i think a report button would be a good thing to add. 

but no matter what happens there needs to be a change because this is getting way out of hand. even when posters say they dont want their thread to turn into a parelli bashing, often the first post IS a parelli bashing [that often has nothing to do with the OP] 

like i said before i dont eat sleep drink & pee parelli, but even i feel i cant say anything having to do with PNH on this forum because people will jump on you no matter what you say !!


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Underneath your avatar you'll see some little pictures. Next to the little computer is a white box outlined in red with an explaination point. If you see a post that is uncalled for hit the button under the posters avatar. That's your report post button. We'll get it cleaned up. Seems like this winter has been really rough on us all. We are getting too cranky, summertime please come quickly!


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

This is really off topic, well sorta but i had to add. Clinton Anderson is becoming just as bad as Parelli, i just watched a show on RFD today and every 5 seconds he was talking about "buying our super duper halter that you have to have and this will not work unless you buy my halter at the price of 35$ and if you join my club for easy payments of 19.99 a month you can get it for 25$! what a bargain!" Or his 600$ training "fundamentals" kit. Its ridiculous, i understand that they have to mention their sponsors, and such and do marketing but the entire show was practically based around a sales pitch. Its sad really


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## thunderhooves (Aug 9, 2009)

it is sad, delete.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

In reading all this, as a proud Parelli follower myself, I see a lot of rumors and misguided information. And a lot of assumptions. 

I honestly don't think a sub forum for Parelli would work. It's a nice thought, and I'm thankful SOMEONE is trying to work out the situation, however it won't stop certain individuals from bashing. People will find something wrong with the idea....you can't win. 

I personally don't take any criticism from anyone on this forum to heart. I haven't asked for it because I go to people I know are qualified when I need help. People can call me a cult member, mediocre, ignorant, all those other great names used to describe Parelli people....it's not making me feel bad, it's only making that idividual look very immature.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

JustDressageIt said:


> but when a suitable (by this forum's standards) mare is presented on the board, members are actually very encouraging to the member. Stallions are held to a higher degree standard, but those with exceptional stallions are respected.


Very true! And there are posts with very nice (very much breeding quality) mares even though they didn't produce Olympics winner jumper.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Speed Racer said:


> I think anyone who doesn't eat mean meat is stupid.
> 
> Seriously, why _wouldn't _you want to eat a mean cow that attacked you, or a mean chicken that spurred or pecked you?
> 
> ...


Laughing too hard to type.

Sorry for the typing error. Darn I need to take more time to proof read when I am posting instead of working.

Meat....Meat...I meant Meat.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Administrator said:


> So how about this... Parelli fans, please don't take suggestions that don't involve Parelli as an attack and reply with snark and contempt. Members who don't care for Parelli, comment in a Parelli related thread when you have something helpful to share, but not merely for the sake of snark and contempt. When either "party" does find itself addressing the other, make an effort to do so civilly. It might just go a long way...
> 
> Is that something everyone can live with?


I think it sounds wonderful.

I do find it amusing that the people who say we (general we) are mean to them are the same people that go into the not NH training section and tell us we are mean horrible horse owners who are abusing our horses because we do not play the seven games and use their prescribed NH stuff.


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## goldilockz (Aug 1, 2008)

gypsygirl said:


> but people talking about other NH topics are not harassed in the same way ! i too would like to talk about parelli with people on here. im not a die hard parelli fan but i still want to learn ! you cant even mention the P word with out getting jumped on here...


I think that's based in frustration that Parelli has so monopolized the Natural Horsemanship _name_ that anytime you mention NH, it is automatically assumed you are a follower of Parelli. My husband and I are very into the NH methods, but neither of us think Parelli is anything more than a good advertiser. Personally, I think his "games" are downright silly.

Natural Horsemanship is not a trademark, it is a tried and true way of training _some but not all _horses. Parelli is a *brand name*.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> I do find it amusing that the people who say we (general we) are mean to them are the same people that go into the not NH training section and tell us we are mean horrible horse owners who are abusing our horses because we do not play the seven games and use their prescribed NH stuff.


Exactly, Always.

How many times have people been attacked for being 'mean' and 'abusive' by Parelli followers if they don't follow Pat and Linda's approved (on sale for only $2,496.99!!!) methods?

Maybe that's why some of us have such short fuses when it comes to the Parelli 'my way or the highway' attitude of _*some*_ of their followers.

NH in and of itself has some very good ideas, and I think anyone who has horses incorporates a little of _every_ training method with their animals. It's the ones who say there's only ONE way to train that irritate the snot out of me. And generally, those people _are_ the cult-like Parelli folks.

NH shouldn't be considered a dirty word, but when you put Parelli in front of it I stop listening because I find nothing about the Parellis interesting, new, or informative. I just think of media hype, over priced crap, and some training techniques that are dangerous and stupid.

There's a _reason_ Parelli appeals to the middle aged women afraid of their horses, and the starry-eyed teens who have Black Stallion syndrome. They're playing into people's deepest wants and fears, and telling them that _yes,_ if you follow our methods you'll be a wunderkind trainer and your horsey will loff you forever!


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## Scoutrider (Jun 4, 2009)

.Delete. said:


> This is really off topic, well sorta but i had to add. Clinton Anderson is becoming just as bad as Parelli, i just watched a show on RFD today and every 5 seconds he was talking about "buying our super duper halter that you have to have and this will not work unless you buy my halter at the price of 35$ and if you join my club for easy payments of 19.99 a month you can get it for 25$! what a bargain!" Or his 600$ training "fundamentals" kit. Its ridiculous, i understand that they have to mention their sponsors, and such and do marketing but the entire show was practically based around a sales pitch. Its sad really


CA is getting a bit crazy... I like "his" methods, and use several of his exercises. I always thought he was ridiculously overpriced, but he didn't used to hawk his stuff on the tv show like he does now. The hawking just gets irritating and makes it more like an infomercial than a training show. I have the Riding with Confidence DVD set and his general training book, both gifts. I did all the training with a $5 TSC rope halter or a nylon webbing halter shock. My horse does all the groundwork exercises quite nicely.  If there's a flaw in him there, it's probably my fault, not my halter's. 

It's a shame that the sound ideas and techniques get caught up and lost in the commercialism, no matter who's name is on the equipment.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

I have to say that Parelli has always reminded me of the Church of Scientology:

You pay large sums of money to get through various levels of the organisation in the hope that at the end you will be able to learn directly from a funny looking man in a hat ha ha

(Meant as a lighthearted joke, hope the Parrelli people can see the humour too!)

I wonder if you get to marry a D grade celebrity too like Tom Cruise? If so, I'm joining and I'll have Michael Weatherly thanks!!!! (NCIS) :wink:


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Administrator said:


> Does everyone agree, then, that members should be able to discuss their interest in Parelli in the Natural Horsemanship forum without fearing harassment, i.e., other members pouncing on them and saying mean things just because Parelli was mentioned? Safety concerns are one thing, but snark and contempt from those who don't like Parelli merely for the sake of snark and contempt are another...​


Anyone can discuss anything they like.

HOWEVER - no matter what a person posts - they have to understand not everyone is going to agree. If you only want to hear like opinions - a person needs to e-mail or PM a friend.

How the typed word is interpreted is open for discussion. No way to tell the emotion not to mention typing errors can change the whole meaning.

Posting on a public forum invites public opinion.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

And that is when I will come in!


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

^^^ that gave me a good giggle


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## Madyson (Aug 27, 2009)

RiosDad said:


> Because some of us have been around a long long time and we know it doesn't work. It is for the medicore people trying to be trainers. I have never seen a well made horse using Parelli. And I have been around alot of boarding barns over the decades.
> 
> It is like someone complaining they get a head ache from banging their head against a wall. Tell them to stop and the pain will go away.
> We are just trying to tell you to stop banging your head.
> ...


While I do agree with most of your post, I have to say that I do disagree with the bolded.

I know that this has probably been stated a thousand times on this forum, but there is something to be learned from every trainer, even if you hate that trainer's guts. I know a few trainers from around my area that I would NEVER train with them for myself, let alone my horse! But one of them has a great eye for exceptional horses; another is a great trainer for getting you to have the perfect crest release over a jump; and the other one has has a the perfect beginning program for H/J riders who want to learn dressage.

Even Parelli has some good techniques in there, too. While I must say that I'm not a huge Parelli fan myself, I have found that he does have some good ideas that can be used with all horses - even those super expensive, fancy show ponies and horses!
I know that my horse certainly has exceptional bloodlines and moves really nice, so that made him worth quite a bit. But that's not my point...my point is that some of the Parelli 7 games has worked well with him on the ground. Now, I would not ever use the riding ideas from Parelli, but hey, it never hurt anyone to try!


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

I think the debates are a good thing. I'm not really for or against Parelli because I have not tried their methods. I thought about it when I was having serious problems with my horse, so I went to their site and realized I could hire a trainer for less (and not have to risk screwing it up by doing it myself) so that's what I ended up doing. Anyway, back on topic, I learn a lot by reading various debates, even the heated parelli ones. The Parelli ones usually do wind up getting pretty ugly, but so do plenty of others. We should just all use our report buttons if we don't like how a thread is going and then if it still bothers you, just stay out of it. I personally won't be using mine, because most of them I think are pretty amusing :lol: and a lot of them you can still get good information out of if you just ignore a few posts. People can be entirely to sensitive. I like Clinton Anderson, but if he gets bashed on here I really see no reason to defend him...I'm not him. The same with the Parellis...unless any of you are actually pat or linda parelli then I don't see why you defend them the way you do. If you and your horse are having success with parelli, then that's great, but that doesn't mean you are responsible for defending him and his entire program.


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## Mike_User (Oct 24, 2006)

mls said:


> Anyone can discuss anything they like.
> 
> HOWEVER - no matter what a person posts - they have to understand not everyone is going to agree. If you only want to hear like opinions - a person needs to e-mail or PM a friend.
> 
> ...


This isn't about disagreements. I don't think anyone doubts the educational value of people maturely discussing their disagreements and providing substantive information to illuminate one another. This is about mean spirited bashing, snark, rudeness, etc. about a topic in an area set aside for those interested in the topic to discuss it, and it won't be tolerated. This applies to all areas of the Horse Forum.

We've added the subforums we have so that members can discuss their interests in them. Members are not at the mercy of those who don't care for their interests.

Anyone interested in discussing their interests with fellow horse keepers is welcome to participate here. Anyone interested only in ruining things unnecessarily for others can go somewhere else.

To be sure, members are of course welcome to disagree with one another. However, if you're going to disrupt an otherwise pleasant thread where members are discussing their shared interests to do it, and effectively ruin it for those participating in it, it needs to be for a legitimate reason, i.e. education, safety, etc., and not simply to satisfy some urge to be sarcastic, obnoxious, or mean.

Civility is all we're asking for.

Thanks everyone, and please be sure to use the Report Post feature when you observe posts that run counter to the helpful spirit that is germane to the Horse Forum's purpose.

Sincerely,
Mike


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