# so what does a mouthing bit actually DO?



## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

I mean one of the bits in the photos attached.

What is the actual physical function of the mouthing bit? I know WHAT it does, but HOW and WHY?

I have a young horse I'm in the process of training for the bridle and as a part of that I am deciding on what type of bit to mouth her in. The last horse I mouthed, I mouthed in a single jointed full cheek snaffle, and then moved on to a double jointed eggbutt. Magic is similarly "normal" in the mouth but my single jointed full cheek is miles too big for her so I have to buy something specifically.

Before I go out and spend money I want to educate myself so that I can better understand the function of the different bits. I'm pretty sure I don't want the one that's got the ridges on it [although apparently those are only on one side so it can be used either way up, that implies the bit is dead straight and therefore does not fit well in ANY horse's mouth!] but want to understand the function of the ring-link and the keys so that I can make an educated decision.

At present I am tempted to stick with the familiar and comforting and go with a full cheek french link but thought I would take the opportunity to learn.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Well , I think the first bit might be a mullen mouth, i.e. no break in the middle, a straight bar. not sure. the others function much like a French link in that they have two joints.
I think the rings are to give a fidgetty horse something to focus on , rather than resisting the whole bit pressure, it would play with those keys. When a horse "plays" with something on it's tongue, it will increase salvation (also helps with horse's comfort) and will keep the jaw from locking up. That is probably the number one benefit of having a horse play with the mouthpiece; encouraging a loose jaw. A tight jaw is a clear sign of tension and resistance. If the jaw can be kept loose, the rest of the body should be looser.

However, I don't know of much training using those bits. But that doesn't really mean anything, since I dont' train babies, nor do I watch anyone do it.

lets see what folks who do mouth babies have to say.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Most of the breakers around here actually use loose ring snaffles, generally either single or double jointed. That's a good sign for me because I have one of those lying around that I'm not confident is actually a 5 inch - I think it's a bit smaller - but at the same time if I'm going to be using something I already have might I be better off using my hanging cheek snaffle? That's definitely only about 4.5 inch, though I was sold it as a 5 inch.

Oh yeah - she has a TINY head, she's 16hh and in a cob sized bridle at the moment. Full is miles too big so her new bridle which WILL fit and have growing room is made up of a mishmash of all different sized parts. Very narrow mouth too, the bit that's miles too big is only a 5 inch. So I need something that I can relatively easily source in "pony" sizes. Starting to seem like it will just be easier to mouth her in "just a bit" and buy her whatever I choose as my bit of choice for her.


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## LisaG (Nov 11, 2012)

I used a bit like the third one when I started my first two young horses. This was many, many years ago, though, and I don't bother with it anymore. The idea is that the keys give them something to play with, and keep their mouths moist, as tinyliny pointed out.

Not sure that I would spend money on one, personally. That being said, I never noticed any ill-effect from the mouthing bits, and I'm not going to say I wouldn't use it again if I thought it would help in a specific situation. 

I don't know if that's super helpful. I guess one thing to think about is if there's a big difference between the second and third bit in terms of where it puts pressure on the mouth. I think the third bit is harder to pull through their mouths, but I haven't had that problem anyway. I do wonder if it would put pressure on their lips a little, much like a D-ring.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Thank you LisaG, and you don't notice it being any easier or more difficult with or without the keys? Hmm sounds to me rather like if I'm going to spend money I might as well spend it on what she'll be staying in as a dressage horse [she is eventually intended to event, if she's brave enough, but for now I'm starting her as a dressage horse]... which is most likely to be a double jointed eggbutt. Simple enough to find in the right size, can get quality ones cheap, only met a couple of horses that didn't like them.

She is a nervy horse and tends to freeze when she gets over-stressed so something to play with in her mouth might help, though... :/


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I agree with the theory that it gives them something to play with but I dislike them as they can often make the horse to ,mouthy and teach them to put their tongue over the bit.


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## Dulcify (Oct 27, 2011)

The keys are designed to encourage the horse to play, feel and mouth the bit. I would only be mouthing the horse in those bits but not riding or long reining. 

What's inside the horses mouth will determine what type of link to use. 

I always use full cheek snaffles with either a standard snaffle mouth, training links or hollow snaffle. Thick bars are better. 

I would never ever use loose ring bits or French links. Always take into account the wolf teeth, tongue and pallet of the horse and of course the bars and general condition of the teeth before mouthing.


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## Almond Joy (Dec 4, 2011)

The barn I'm at uses full cheeks on the babies, infact one of the horses used a rubber mouth full cheek. Single jointed, although I would probably go french link so it doesn't have such a nutcracker effect. After a bit of training, they move down to a d-ring or egg butt. I don't like loose rings because I have heard they could pinch, and I feel like the reins/headstall or bridle can move around on the bit a lot. 

If I had to moth a baby, I would use this bit: http://cheshirehorse.com/Mikmar-Cupreon-Full-Cheek-French-Link-Roller-Snaffle-P6704.aspx

It has the full cheek to move their heads easily, copper to help them salivate, double jointed to reduce nutcracker effect, and a roller for them to play with if necessary. If they don't need to play with it, then I feel it wouldn't be as annoying as having a mouthful of keys


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## LisaG (Nov 11, 2012)

I have to say I don't really know how double-jointed bits work, to be honest, so I'm not sure about the eggbut bit you're describing. Whatever you start them on, it should be relatively gentle. Dulcify mentioned the thicker bars, and I agree that it's best to start them out with thicker rather than really thin bars.

It was so long ago that I last used the key thing, I'm not sure if I remember things accurately. I think the horses did play with the bit quite a bit, but once I switched to a different bit, it was fine. Neither of my horses ever got a tongue over the bit, but maybe I was lucky.

Now I just use an open snaffle, single joint, with fairly thick bars to start. I haven't had problems with reins moving around on the bit or anything. After a few rides I move to a slightly thinner bit. I have one three-year-old in a single-jointed copper D-ring now, and she's responding well to that (she started out on an open snaffle, but didn't yield as nicely as I like). 

I don't generally use full-cheek snaffles because of the way my reins are set up. I guess they're probably fine, though I do wonder if they would put a little pressure on a horse's lips (not that I'm super worried about that after the horse has a few rides on it - I believe the D ring does the same).

I guess I'd say just go with something relatively gentle to start out. Good luck!


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## LisaG (Nov 11, 2012)

Actually, when it comes to bits, I think I'm at least as confused as the next person. Whenever I'm thinking of buying a new one, I find myself staring at the rows and rows of bits, trying to figure out how the leverage would work in a horse's mouth. Someone should put together a bit webinar for all of us so we can figure this stuff out!


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Almond Joy that looks like a lovely bit, something to consider if I can find one in her size.

I long lined her today [again in the single jointed full cheek, because that's what's on her bridle] and she started off confused as hell but once she figured it out she long lined like an old pro. She's giving to the bit easily and willingly both laterally and vertically, good halt, good reinback. I think she's pretty much mouthed now... very very clever horse this one and I've been idly working on it the whole time I've been working on bridling her. I have done it before and while I did it in fewer sessions with the previous horse, the previous horse was a lot quieter and didn't need quite as much of a baby steps approach.

The biggest challenge with mouthing Magic was that to begin with she would panic as soon as any pressure was put on the bit. It took her a while to figure out that it wasn't going to eat her.

The vet-dentist actually advised to leave her wolf teeth be unless I encounter an issue. They are quite small and while they are a little forward of her molars vet-dentist said they are high enough in her mouth that the bit should not go anywhere near them anyway. Next time I have her teeth done [she is due in 3 months] I will have the vet reassess.

Dulcify, what is wrong with a French link? She has a fairly low palate and I'm therefore not really a big fan of a single jointed snaffle on her [just using it because it's the only full cheek snaffle I have - though I don't think she needs the full cheeks again until I set to work backing her and even then only to remind her]... and as she is intended to be a dressage horse she NEEDS a bit with independent action on both sides, which a mullen mouth lacks. They are available easily enough with oval links for the horse that dislikes the flat link.


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## Dulcify (Oct 27, 2011)

I prefer the round softer training links for breakers. It still has independent movement on each side but without the height, narrowness and pinching of the port of the French link. The French link is fine for horses with more experience under their belt. 

If the horse has a low pallet then I would definitely not use a French link. The breaker should not be feeling bit pressure on their pallet, just tongue and bars. 

I'm not sure how you mouth a horse but long reining is the last thing I do. It takes a good week for me to properly mouth a horse and I do it in consecutive days. I also tie back when mouthing. Some 'natural' people don't believe in it but I find they have better softer mouths. 

While tying back they must always move forward and of course done at their own acceptance. Have ridden fresh breakers with other methods of mouthing and found their mouths lacking lateral softness. 

When long reigning it's important to always check the steering frequently and watch what their mouth is doing and always maintain forward movement. I turn them to the outside of the circle to prevent falling in but since I have mostly dealt with tbs also prevents resistance and taking off. 

Of course though I have already established this sort of long reigning in a halter so it's all old hat to them. 

Getting them is the easiest part IMO. It's a great tool to use a lead pony so they get used to seeing someone above them.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

there's no port on a French link though? Just a flat link in the middle. Regardless I personally prefer the oval link full stop. My gelding is in a flat link. because he prefers it and salivates more but every other horse I have had has gone in an oval link.

I did make sure she understood giving laterally and vertically, halt and reinback before I put the long lines on. She isn't the first horse I have mouthed. Once I back her she will be taught the one rein stop but that is something I prefer to do mounted. Unfortunately backing her is something I can't do right away - vet advice was to leave that until around February so her injured leg has a chance to heal properly. If not for the laceration to her tendon she would be well enough healed now to start being backed but tendon injuries are obviously not to be taken lightly. I will probably leave it until march or even April to avoid the worst of the summer heat. She's young but she's bored and needs a job. I think light work a couple of times a week will be good for her.

Off to go work with her. Think if she's still long reining well in the round pen we might graduate to the paddock.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

When using the full-cheek snaffle, you should also use the keepers with it. Many people are not aware of them. The bit doesn't function correctly otherwise and it is a safety concern.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

it sits better in her mouth without them? Regardless Im digging out my hanging cheek snaffle because after todays effort I feel like she's ready to graduate out of the 'mouthing' bit and the hanging cheek has that little bit of lateral pressure to help remind her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Oldhorselady said:


> When using the full-cheek snaffle, you should also use the keepers with it. Many people are not aware of them. The bit doesn't function correctly otherwise and it is a safety concern.


You're absolutely right!! So many people take those keepers for granted and ignore them, but otherwise the bit hangs down. If you hold the bit with two fingers on the rings, where the reins would be you'll notice the bit hangs pointing down, resting on what would be their tongue. If you put the top of the Full Cheek in the keepers the bit is held up, so if the horse has it's head in the correct position the bit won't barely touch them until pressure is added. 
It also helps prevent the bit from getting hooked on things. This is why I _always_ start my horses in french link full cheeks. It provides the clearest cues, with the pressure on their cheeks, bars and tongue without hitting their pallet or twisting incorrectly.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Foxhunter said:


> I agree with the theory that it gives them something to play with but I dislike them as they can often make the horse to ,mouthy and teach them to put their tongue over the bit.


This^^. I don't like for my horses to "play" with the bit as it often becomes a bad habit.

I guess I just subscribe to a different train of thought than most. IME, mouthing and playing with the bit leads to chomping and putting their tongue over it and chewing constantly. To me, those are vices. A horse that was trained properly should be quiet on the bit, not playing with it. A horse that is playing with the bit cannot feel the smaller cues given to them because they are constantly moving the bit in their mouth.

I've only ever used a nice loose ring snaffle on all my colts and always had good results.


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## Dulcify (Oct 27, 2011)

blue eyed pony said:


> there's no port on a French link though? Just a flat link in the middle. Regardless I personally prefer the oval link full stop. My gelding is in a flat link. because he prefers it and salivates more but every other horse I have had has gone in an oval link.
> 
> I did make sure she understood giving laterally and vertically, halt and reinback before I put the long lines on. She isn't the first horse I have mouthed. Once I back her she will be taught the one rein stop but that is something I prefer to do mounted. Unfortunately backing her is something I can't do right away - vet advice was to leave that until around February so her injured leg has a chance to heal properly. If not for the laceration to her tendon she would be well enough healed now to start being backed but tendon injuries are obviously not to be taken lightly. I will probably leave it until march or even April to avoid the worst of the summer heat. She's young but she's bored and needs a job. I think light work a couple of times a week will be good for her.
> 
> ...


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Dulcify, I think you are confused. The french link will sit flat over the toungue giving plenty of room for the tongue and not hitting the roof of the mouth. there is absolutly no port in a french link.
A single jointed bit will hit the roof on a horse with a low pallete

Also Oldhorselady - Be careful with keepers on full cheeks, so few people use the keepers nowa days that a lot of newer full cheeks are designed for use without them and if you put them on the keepers will force the bit into a strange angle making it uncomfortable for the horse.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

I would need a roller to teach her the one rein stop from the ground. We have one but it's my mother's and I don't like borrowing her stuff. I've just been long lining with a saddle on and the lines through the [run up] stirrups... little bit risky if they have a panic attack I know but it's what I have and what I've been using for quite some time with no issues.

I taught it from the saddle with my gelding to try to help deal with his bolting issue [which I caused] and he is now so familiar with it that all I have to do is lift one hand and he quits being an idiot.

A French link only sits with the edge against the tongue if it's an eggbutt and the horse's mouth is shaped a particular way. D-rings do the same. A full cheek with keepers would sit it flat, as would a hanging cheek. I have found that none of the horses I have had it on have been a fan of the full cheek placed in their mouths as if it had keepers though. [mine is single jointed but still...]


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Julie Goodnight Natural Horsemanship / Horse Master TV Show


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Cheers  will take a look when I have a few spare minutes.


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