# Dun/Buckskin Mare... both color and conformation "criti



## RedHawk (Jun 16, 2008)

She's really skinny! Her coat looks nice from what i can see, but i think she may have some sort of skin problem ??? and im not very good at confo but she looks like she's sickle hocked, could be just the way she's standing though.


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## FutureVetGirl (Aug 5, 2008)

Yeah... but like I said... she really isn't as skinny as she looks in the picture... she was turning towards me when I took it, (she wanted to be pet), so it caught a lot of the "bad" conformation flaws...

I'll look through again and see if I can get a better picture...


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## claireauriga (Jun 24, 2008)

She desperately needs weight on her! She's not standing square and she's turned towards the camera, which make it difficult to judge her legs and shoulder properly, but please try and make sure that the stables build up her weight! Look at her flank - that's not just a 'hard keeper' (which is no excuse; you have to take on the extra work to keep them up to a good weight if that's the case), that's a horse that's getting dangerously thin.

Putting weight on her would improve a lot of her confo, too - I'm mostly thinking of her bum and neck when I say that. But I'm no expert; that's just where it appears to me that fattening her up would make things look better even before you started putting muscle on her.


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## FutureVetGirl (Aug 5, 2008)

I'm uploading some better pictures. She really isn't as thin as you guys are making her out to be. I know nothing of her history, and I know nothing else about her. I've got a couple of other pictures that truly show how "thin" she is. I'll admit, she needs some more fat on those bones, but she's not really THAT thin.

Here are the pics:









The face isn't her... but you can see how she is in the back (she's the horse in the back)









not a good pic... but here she is









kind of the same as the one above..









And I just felt like sharing this one... of her purty head...


I'm unsure as to her breed. There are a few options:
1. Standardbred or some other trotter
2. Thoroughbred
3. Akhal-Teke - There's another in the stable... so who knows?


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## Gillian (Aug 2, 2008)

WOAH, her hooves really need to be done. Look at her left front hoof in the very first picture. And she is also quite skinny. She really needs some looking after before she could seriously be ridden. Personally I would NOT ride a horse who's hooves were that bad...

As for conformation she's definitley got a long back. She's got a really thin neck and maybe high withers? It's really hard to tell because she needs so much weight put on and she's standing so awkwardly. Once she gains more weight I feel like her confo would improve a lot but as of right now I am thoroughly unimpressed with this mare. She does have a cute face but that's really all I can say about her right now.


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## FutureVetGirl (Aug 5, 2008)

I'm not denying anything.

Like I said, I have no idea who she is, and where she came from. She wasn't here at the stables a couple of months ago, so it could be that she's a rescue (they do a lot of rescues from time to time).

It doesn't mean that the stable where I ride is abusing her. And I was wondering about her conformation... not of whether or not she was abused/neglected or not. Sheesh. Other people show pictures of thinner horses, and you still critique them.

I'm not saying that she doesn't need fattening up. (they do feed their horses a lot here), All I'm saying is could you please critique on her conformation... not on how "sickly" she looks?


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## FutureVetGirl (Aug 5, 2008)

Sorry for the double post, but I have something to add, about hoof care around here:

There is one farrier. Just one. And from what I've been told, he's been sick for the past couple of months (like... REALLY sick). So of course, he hasn't been able to get out here.

And in that first picture... that's not her hoof, it's the dirt... It was pretty muddy a while back, and some horses were outside, and so now there are a whole bunch of holes where the hoof prints were. Most of it's cleared up, but there are a few left here and there. And that's what that is... not her hoof.


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## Gillian (Aug 2, 2008)

I went back and pointed out what conformation stuff I could but like I said it's very hard to tell. I didn't say anything about neglect or abuse, just voicing my opinion about her weight. 

And OH, that really did look like the hoof, ha ha. I was worried for a minute there. Well than as I said I'd really just like to see her with more weight and than I think she'd make a pretty decent little mare.


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## FutureVetGirl (Aug 5, 2008)

haha... no... it's not the hoof. If you look in some of the other pictures you can see some of the uneven-ness in some parts of the field...

And one of the main reasons I was asking was I was wondering if she had decent enough conformation for long distance endurance. Because... if so... I wouldn't mind paying quite a bit to lease her. (once she puts on the weight). Sorry I didn't make that clear in the first post... all my thoughts were jumbled. I was so exited about showing her, that I forgot to point out a few questions here and there.


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## claireauriga (Jun 24, 2008)

"In general a good endurance horse will have a balanced conformation, a relatively light build, a strong back and excellent feet."

You're also going to be doing a lot of trotting, so when she fills out, if her shoulder is nice and sloping that will give you a smoother ride. It looks rather steep to me, though. But endurance is all about keeping your horse fit and healthy, so I think it'll be a while before that horse might be up to beginning the training.


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## Gillian (Aug 2, 2008)

I agree with claire. Maybe look at other horses in the meantime since this mare needs time to gain weight and stuff but keep an eye on her for later on? There are certainly horses with better conformation for endurance but honestly if you and her just click than with the right training and lots of time and patience she could be a good horse for you. Would you plan on competing? Or just doing endurance for fun?


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## FutureVetGirl (Aug 5, 2008)

If I do end up training her later on (once she's gotten to that point) it would be to work her up to the point where she could be sold or just used for something other than a pasture ornament. So I would be training and working with her, and then going on one or two endurance "races" around our town, or perhaps in Belgrade (capital), and then see how much people are interested in her. She has a pretty color, she just needs fattening up, and some training.

I was just wondering if her conformation would be suited for that, or something else...


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## claireauriga (Jun 24, 2008)

Sounds like a great plan - after all, what makes a horse really desirable is training. You'd be giving her value and better prospects throughout her life if she can remain healthy, sound and useful.

There are several endurance riders on this forum, so I'd suggest turning to them for advice on the best confo for endurance and how to start the training.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

It is extreamly hard to judge a hore's conformation when she is about 150lb underweight and has no muscle tone. If the horse has been there for several months then either they are not taking proper care or the horse needs to be seen by a vet. Nearly any horse can be brought back to good condition in ~60 days with the proper feeding and worming.

In her condition I would not consider putting a saddle on her. Once you have some weight on her I would start to bring her along with some lunging before attempting to ride.

BTW, poor lighting will not show ribs or an awfully thin neck. But based on what I can see, she is sickle hocked, has a very poor neck line, and may have a roached back (but that part could be the weight). She does have a kind eye and a nice face.


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## Jubilee Rose (May 28, 2008)

Wow, she seems in rough shape. The poor girl is very thin. Regardless of her weight issue though, she also has an extremely long back which will make riding difficult. Her neck looks too short, from what I can tell, and she is definitely sicklehocked. Her head also looks too big for her body, but it could be just because she's so thin. Please don't misunderstand, I'm not trying to sound harsh and critical but I don't think she would be a wise buy, especially for something as strenuous as eventing, especially with the long back she has. Just my opinion.


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## SonnyWimps (Feb 22, 2008)

iridehorses said:


> It is extreamly hard to judge a hore's conformation when she is about 150lb underweight and has no muscle tone. If the horse has been there for several months then either they are not taking proper care or the horse needs to be seen by a vet. Nearly any horse can be brought back to good condition in ~60 days with the proper feeding and worming.
> 
> In her condition I would not consider putting a saddle on her. Once you have some weight on her I would start to bring her along with some lunging before attempting to ride.
> 
> BTW, poor lighting will not show ribs or an awfully thin neck. But based on what I can see, she is sickle hocked, has a very poor neck line, and may have a roached back (but that part could be the weight). She does have a kind eye and a nice face.


I agree with iride completely! My horse got skinny within 2 weeks because he wasn't getting enough to eat and the BO wasn't telling the truth on how much he was being fed. I got him back up in weight in 20-30 days. 

I would NOT put a saddle on her at all until she has gained the weight back....AND I'd take it slowly since she has zero muscles.

Also as iride horses...poor lighting will NOT show ribs, a thin neck...it will show the way hte horse is maybe dark in some spots, but defiantely will NOT make a horse look that thin if she really isn't. 

Conformation: She appears to have a fairly straight back with a possible roach in it, but it could change if she gains weight. Her back is kinda long also. Her pasterns seem kinda upright from the pictures also.


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## FutureVetGirl (Aug 5, 2008)

Jubilee, I'm not doing Eventing. Endurance. Not eventing.

And I know what you guys are saying about lighting and stuff. But I saw her in person, and as I looked at the pictures, I couldn't help but think "Is that the same horse?" because honestly... in the pictures she looks a LOT thinner than she really is. I'll examine her better next time I head out there.

Also Jubilee, she probably won't be a buy. I'll be working with her, but not buying her. All I'm wanting to do in the future is work with her, and train her to the point where she's desirable.


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## Jubilee Rose (May 28, 2008)

FutureVetGirl said:


> Jubilee, I'm not doing eventing. Endurance. Not eventing.
> 
> And I know what you guys are saying about lighting and stuff. But I saw her in person, and as I looked at the pictures, I couldn't help but think "Is that the same horse?" because honestly... in the pictures she looks a LOT thinner than she really is. I'll examine her better next time I head out there.
> 
> Also Jubilee, she probably won't be a buy. I'll be working with her, but not buying her. All I'm wanting to do in the future is work with her, and train her to the point where she's desirable.


Ok. My bad. I misunderstood you, sorry. Yes, sometimes pictures do make horses look different.  That's really cool that you have an oppourtunity to work with her. With a lot of weight, she'll look a ton better! Good luck!


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## Curly_Horse_CMT (Jun 8, 2008)

*Mare critique*

I cant belive she doenst look that skinny in real life...its pretty drastic looking. She looks like she could be a really cute horse but alot of weight and love will determine that. Do you know how old she is? Her face is really kind and friendly. She looks like a Standardbred to me, or a cross with Standardbred.


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

all i see is neglect..


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## FutureVetGirl (Aug 5, 2008)

Well... it might have been neglect in the past, but not anymore. And honestly... the picture makes her look MUCH thinner than she really is. I'm not denying that she's thin... and needs to put on weight... but the picture really does somehow make her look a lot thinner than she really is.


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## Curly_Horse_CMT (Jun 8, 2008)

*Mare critique*



FutureVetGirl said:


> Well... it might have been neglect in the past, but not anymore. And honestly... the picture makes her look MUCH thinner than she really is. I'm not denying that she's thin... and needs to put on weight... but the picture really does somehow make her look a lot thinner than she really is.


You cant expect to put a pic of the mare on here and not have people feel a little suspicious about how she looks. So, dont feel like we are picking on you directly for how she looks, we are just saying what we feel from what we see. I know i hate it to see horses look that skinny.... :?


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## FutureVetGirl (Aug 5, 2008)

Fine. Then don't look.

Oh... and they feed their horses a TON there. The horses are out on free range grass (alfalfa grass as well as normal) almost all day, and in the morning they get a flake of hay, as well as a ton of grain. So if she isn't up to where she needs to be in weight, then she will be.


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## Curly_Horse_CMT (Jun 8, 2008)

*Mare*



FutureVetGirl said:


> Fine. Then don't look.
> 
> Oh... and they feed their horses a TON there. The horses are out on free range grass (alfalfa grass as well as normal) almost all day, and in the morning they get a flake of hay, as well as a ton of grain. So if she isn't up to where she needs to be in weight, then she will be.


You dont need to get defensive. Thats good that all the horses are fed, I am not saying that they arent. I am just stating that you cant expect us not to question you and state what we think when you put her in the "critique" section. I know what its like to put weight on thin horses....its hard. I have had my share, and I still am. My one mare is on the leaner side, one of those horses that are harder to keep weight on then others. I agreed that the mare was cute, just that she needed more weight.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

FutureVetGirl said:


> Fine. Then don't look.
> 
> Oh... and they feed their horses a TON there. The horses are out on free range grass (alfalfa grass as well as normal) almost all day, and in the morning they get a flake of hay, as well as a ton of grain. So if she isn't up to where she needs to be in weight, then she will be.


If you don't want honesty, don't post a picture.

If that horse is not being fed by herself it is possible that she is not getting enough feed. If she hasn't been wormed or had her teeth floated she will most likely never gain weight. If the quality of the feed is poor she will not gain weight. So just eating is not enough for a horse to gain or even maintain weight. Horsemanship is a lot of things, not just giving a horse food. Why do you feel that you need to defend this barn?


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## Curly_Horse_CMT (Jun 8, 2008)

If you don't want honesty, don't post a picture.

If that horse is not being fed by herself it is possible that she is not getting enough feed. If she hasn't been wormed or had her teeth floated she will most likely never gain weight. If the quality of the feed is poor she will not gain weight. So just eating is not enough for a horse to gain or even maintain weight. Horsemanship is a lot of things, not just giving a horse food. Why do you feel that you need to defend this barn?[/quote]

Thank you


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## FutureVetGirl (Aug 5, 2008)

I'm not defending the barn (I honestly don't like most of the people there), all I'm "defending" is the assumption you guys are making that I'm not doing anything to help her and the other horses. They still get enough feed, are dewormed by the vet once a month, and so on. Horses are too expensive here to treat badly.

I asked for critique on the horse's conformation. Not "is this horse eating enough" or "is this a case of neglect" or something similar. Please answer what I asked for, not tell me that the horse is in terrible shape (something I already know).

But honestly... she is NOT as thin as the picture is showing her to be. She's skinny, and slim, but not a scrawny and neglected horse like you're making her out to be. I told you up front and plain that I do NOT know how old she is, I do NOT know her history, and I have only seen her once. I was at the stables a month or two ago, and she wasn't there then. So explain to me how the stable I'm at is neglecting her, when she is most likely a rescue.

They often take in deer and other horses from people who honestly can't care for them, and are neglected, and then bring them back to their former glory. Sorry I didn't say that clearly enough when I told you about it several times before.


Edit: they bring the horses in at night, and let them out in the morning. So that means that they get the hay and grain in the stall, on their own, and then let them out to graze, and then sometimes get another flake of hay at night when they're brought in if they weren't able to graze long enough outside.


OH... something else to clear up from above. I'm also defending the four people who truly do care, and who are trying to care for fifty plus horses (rescues, racehorses, and endurance horses), on a government fund (which isn't much, but the government doesn't allow them to sell the horses, and they're not allowed to hire help), by feeding, riding, and overall caring for each of the horses. But unlike you're able to give your two horses all the love and care they need on a day to day basis, it's harder when you're dealing with this many horses.


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## *chucks* (Aug 11, 2008)

The horse really is that thin... there are some things that bad lighting can't do... ribs, the way her hind end lacks any sort of fat or muscling, the bump on her back near her hip (most thin horses have this bump, because there's no fat covering the vertebrae), the lack of fat or muscle in her neck, things like that. The horse has no fat or muscle, and I'd put her BS at probably a 2.5, MAYBE a 3. Sometimes what we see when we look at a horse is not what is really there, but what we want to see, because we've fallen for their personality. She does seem like a very sweet mare, who needs help. Just because a horse is being fed a lot doesn't mean the other horses aren't eating it, or that she CAN eat it. With the condition she's in (including feet... not the worse I've seen but far from the best) I'd be willing to bet that she hasn't had her teeth floated in a long time, and she's having a hard time chewing her food... not getting what she needs.

As far as conformation, like I said, she has very little muscle. Her shoulder is fairly upright, more so that I'd like, but not uncommon if she is indeed a TB. She's standing tucked up under herself in the back, either due to confo or lack of weight, which it is, I'm not sure, and her right front leg seems off... sort of over at the knee. However, considering her stance in the pictures, it is hard to tell for sure about either back or front legs. These pictures really are not much help for seeing a horse's conformation. She's got a pretty face and a kind eye, though. However, I'd like to point out, purebred TBs and STBs will not come in buckskin or dun, so she's likely a cross. She does not look Akal-Teke to me at all.


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## saraequestrian (Dec 4, 2007)

FutureVetGirl said:


> OH... something else to clear up from above. I'm also defending the four people who truly do care, and who are trying to care for fifty plus horses (rescues, racehorses, and endurance horses), on a government fund (which isn't much, but the government doesn't allow them to sell the horses, and they're not allowed to hire help), by feeding, riding, and overall caring for each of the horses. But unlike you're able to give your two horses all the love and care they need on a day to day basis, it's harder when you're dealing with this many horses.


they SHOULD NOT be taking in that many horses if they don't have enough money to properly care for every single horse...


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## FutureVetGirl (Aug 5, 2008)

Saraequestrian... THEY HAVE NO CHOICE. These horses are government owned.

And then the rest are (besides the few rescues) all horses that people have boarded there, and then left, expecting the barn to feed and exercise them, and do everything with them, with only a little pay each month.

They've complained to the owners, even threatened to kick out the horses. But to be honest... they don't want to see those horses in even worse condition. So, they're doing their absolute best in a hard situation.


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## Harlee rides horses (Jan 13, 2008)

She is extremely underweight. You may be saying that she really isn't that skinny but I don't see how she couldn't be. She's cow-hocked and seems to be pigeon toed. She is bench kneed also.


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

No offense, but not getting enough money is no reason for horses to be thin.

It means you have too many horses, and it's time to find other homes for them. Otherwise, you're just being selfish and starving an animal. They CAN have a better home--one where they get fed the right amount.

I know you asked for a conformation critique, but if you post a picture of a mare who needs a LOT of weight, don't act surprised when people comment on it. Telling us not to mention it is like going into the show ring with the same horse and telling the judge, 'I know she's thin, but just critique our ride!'

Yeah, not going to happen.


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## geewillikers (May 4, 2008)

> I'm not defending the barn (I honestly don't like most of the people there), all I'm "defending" is the assumption you guys are making that I'm not doing anything to help her and the other horses.


I don't think anyone was saying YOU weren't doing anything about the condition of this mare. If you feel guilty about not doing anything, that really is your issue to work out.

The fact is, this mare is struggling. If she is a rescue, and they've had her for several months, I would assume she should look better by now. However, assuming never did me any good in the past:?

The criticism is directed at the person/people responsible for this animal. Also, if you don't like the people running this facility, then you know where I'm coming from???


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