# Warwick Schiller clinic review



## loosie

Be interesting to hear from others who have been to one of his clinics too - here's my opinion...

Went to watch a Warwick Schiller clinic on the weekend, and was VERY impressed by his horsemanship & principles. I think I can say I heard/saw absolutely nothing I remotely disagreed with - which for my opinionated self is saying a lot - can't recall anyone who I have agreed with 100% with before!

Boy he is a rambler tho - reckon he can ramble on more than me even! Kept going off on tangents... albeit interesting ones. He talked virtually non stop, with only a couple very short breaks, so it was also almost unbroken lecture all day - bit of 'information overload', hard to recall much specifics, so this thread is also a bit of a 'memory jog' & getting what I do remember down.

While I can't say I actually learned anything horse-wise(Tho I was reminded of a few forgotten or discounted gems), he is big on 'self help' & there were a few little... mindset /mindfulness exercises I think I will find very valuable. Darcy, my 16yo who came with me said they don't think they saw/learned anything new either, but that they felt certain things I'd taught them already were worthy of more focus, getting more particular about than they thought before.

I found his attitude refreshing... eg. he spent quite a bit of time with 2 participants, when they were riding, on helping them get better at 'bending to a stop' - what I call teaching a 'one rein stop' - but then spent time explaining he doesnt agree with 'one rein stops' as his perception of that is to force. He also came across to me as a 'natural horsemanship' type but explained that he hated the term & felt it was largely meaningless & often no less forceful, no more considerate of the horse than non labled approaches. He explained his mindset on those type 'discrepancies' very well I thought. He was also very slow & clear & very low key/gentle with the horses (generally - there was one mare that a couple of times...).

While people participating seemed relative 'beginners' & don't know if he has more advanced workshops & if he runs those any differently, didn't really like the way he did the clinic personally - 12 participants who after he just talked to us for nearly 2 hours, brought their horses in, 3 at a time, for 2 hours. In that time, they were told to be completely focussed on their horses, totally ignore him, audience or other participants unless he was actively talking to/helping them personally. Great principle I reckon, to be really 'present' & focussed when you're with your horse, but for the sake of attending a clinic... meant that between him doing bits with everyone else & talking to the audience, they prob got about a half hour max hands on instruction from him in the day and didn't have all that much opportunity to learn by watching others with their horses, which is a big plus of group workshops IMO.

Another fantastic principle that he stuck to, which many 'experts'(see the recent 'experts' thread for definition. If you can find it...) tend to foresake, in favour of a better show, was not doing more than the very basics, if he felt that was needed. For e.g. he is big on getting a connection first & foremost & with a horse who was a little anxious & distracted, he advised the owner just 'match steps' & essentially just walk around beside her horse wherever it wanted to go. Another girl who's horse was rather... jaded & dull, he advised she let the horse loose in the arena & just spend the time letting her go wherever, but frequently just asking the horse to look at the girl. So thats what these 2 did for the whole time. Might have been an important principle to impress on them, but i would have felt rather... ripped off if I'd paid for a clinic to only do that. Also for the rest of us, it was little more interesting than watching paint dry after the first 5 minutes. 

So... considering they were important principles, not sure how he could have done that better - maybe explaining he feels those things should be done 'ad-nauseum' for a certain horse, but here & now, for the sake of the clinic, lets do 10 mins then learn some different things the pair may be ready for. And learning from others... Maybe if he had only one person in at a time - then they would have his undivided attention & they would also not miss watching how he helps 8/12 of the others, but only the one either side of their 'slot'. 

I was going to book Darcy in for one of his clinics but I left thinking while a private lesson would be awesome if he did them, one of his vids would likely be more worthwhile than a clinic.


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## loosie

Oh & was surprised to hear how much he said was relatively new for him, that he was still learning. I know he's been training horses for some years but seems a lot of what he does/says now is quite different for him too.


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## tinyliny

I've been to (as an auditor) two big name , large, clinics; both Buck Branaman. The first I learned something from, the second was a waste of money. Buck works so much from a formulaic approach to teaching his riders that it's plainly obvious he is basically going through the motions of teaching anything. Mechanics, mechanics, mechanics. 



Just the oppostite of what you are describing, he spent time teaching the riders to do different actions with the hrose, with no mention at all as to the whether or not the hrose was anxious, or mentally present or not, and how to address that. The riders were all bound up in doing things without really looking at the horse to see what was happening, nor understanding what was it they were looking to have change.


Really, when you are teaching/learning something, it's about affecting a change. Certainly, this is ever so true in training animals (or raising children). you do something, looking for your pupil to make a change of some kind.
What these clinicians need to teach is how to get humans to look for , and reward, the 'change'. It requires learning to truly be observant of horse behavior.

@DanteDressageNerd posted a really neat video of the TRT guy (Tristan somebody) and how he worked in hand with a very nervous mare, and in just a few minutes affected a change that might go unnoticed by many horsepeople, but that had profound meaning to the horse.


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## AnitaAnne

WS is changing a lot of his ways lately, getting more in touch with the "feelings" which I think is awesome. But one has to remember, he is selling a program based on repeat sales, not so much clinics. 

TRT has a lot of the same stuff, much more feeling too. English focused, so maybe does more work sooner? Hard to tell but I like to watch his stuff.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

loosie said:


> Oh & was surprised to hear how much he said was relatively new for him, that he was still learning. I know he's been training horses for some years but seems a lot of what he does/says now is quite different for him too.



I've not been to one of his clinics, but I love watching him on Youtube, most especially the videos about horses that made him rethink everything he thought he knew.


He's certainly not afraid to admit he was wrong about something in the past, and that there may be better ways of approaching certain issues. That alone gained a lot of respect points with me.


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## jgnmoose

tinyliny said:


> I've been to (as an auditor) two big name , large, clinics; both Buck Branaman. The first I learned something from, the second was a waste of money. Buck works so much from a formulaic approach to teaching his riders that it's plainly obvious he is basically going through the motions of teaching anything. Mechanics, mechanics, mechanics.
> 
> 
> 
> Just the oppostite of what you are describing, he spent time teaching the riders to do different actions with the hrose, with no mention at all as to the whether or not the hrose was anxious, or mentally present or not, and how to address that. The riders were all bound up in doing things without really looking at the horse to see what was happening, nor understanding what was it they were looking to have change.
> 
> 
> Really, when you are teaching/learning something, it's about affecting a change. Certainly, this is ever so true in training animals (or raising children). you do something, looking for your pupil to make a change of some kind.
> What these clinicians need to teach is how to get humans to look for , and reward, the 'change'. It requires learning to truly be observant of horse behavior.
> 
> @DanteDressageNerd posted a really neat video of the TRT guy (Tristan somebody) and how he worked in hand with a very nervous mare, and in just a few minutes affected a change that might go unnoticed by many horsepeople, but that had profound meaning to the horse.


I like Buck, Tom & BIll Dorrance, and Ray Hunt. I think if you had all day to mess with one horse and years to figure out what the hell these masters are talking about you would learn a lot and have nice horses. 

One of my biggest criticisms of a young horse trainer I've come across a few times is he knows how to sound like them and get some decent results with problemed horses, but I'm not sure he knows how to make a clear point yet. That is something nobody from this school of horsemanship is able to get done. 

Proclaiming "there!" when the horse does something good is just not an effective teaching tool for people. I half think they have such a following because there are just that many people out there that are way over-horsed with a hot mess and don't ride very well to begin with. 

Warwick Schiller is a gifted trainer, but I don't care for the esoteric lectures on human psychology. That definitely plays a part in the relationship but if you have an actual problem to get solved his newer stuff is like listening to a monk who answers questions on legitimate problems with a haiku. 

The more I see different trainers, the more I think basically anything works as long as the horse understands it.


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## tinyliny

The trainer/instructor needs to explain what they are looking for and what they have seen when they say, "There, see that? now he is relaxed."


The person who has the problem with the horse, or who has even created the problem with the horse , obviously cannot see that thing that the training is looking to have happen. So, the trainer needs to be able to concretely explain and point out this 'change'. That is ever so true.


As to why that change matters, sometimes you just have to take it on faith. What happens a lot is that people don't really see what the difference is, but they see the mechanics and they go home, thrashing around with the mechanics, affecting no change and simply dulling out the horse in the process. That's why so-called Natural horsemanship taught via video often ends up a total mess at home.


still, sometimes you learn something. Sometimes it takes three or four times listening, and making a lot of mistakes. And, learning some of the mechanics , (things like how to swing a rope tail, how and where to stand, where to direct your energy, etc.) is essential. You just don't want to be thinking that that's all there is to it or you won't look to the horse for answering the 'is this helping?' question.


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## cbar

I attended a WS clinic at a horse expo that was held locally a few years ago. 

I really, really like his Youtube videos, but had a hard time at the clinic. I feel like he just talked and told stories the whole time. While some stuff was interesting, I didn't see a lot of hands on stuff. There were 2 participants in the clinic and I actually felt bad that they would have spent money to participate. 

He discussed a few tools they could use, but essentially they just rode their horses around the arena for 90 minutes while he talked. 

I had thought about paying to audit the Buck Brannaman clinic that was held in our province in November, but from feedback from others decided it might not be worth the driving time & money.


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## loosie

jgnmoose said:


> Warwick Schiller is a gifted trainer, but I don't care for the esoteric lectures on human psychology. ...
> The more I see different trainers, the more I think basically anything works as long as the horse understands it.


Yeah, the 'esoteric lectures'... I thought there were many good, relevant bits there, but also they were... way much. & as cbar said, he talked the whole time & didn't really give the participants much, I thought.

As for 'anything works'... yeah, but HOW does it work? Eg CA might have extremely 'obedient', almost robotic horses, but they're not doing it out of willingness, true respect, rather learned helplessness - they have learned the excrement will hit the turbine if they don't. I think with basic understanding & skill with the fundamental training principles, yeah, anyone can make a horse obedient, but to be considerate, respectFUL of the horse, have them *willing* is so very important IMO & something, IME, most trainers do not get, often do not even seem to know how, realisee it's missing.


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## Joel Reiter

jgnmoose said:


> Warwick Schiller is a gifted trainer, but I don't care for the esoteric lectures on human psychology. That definitely plays a part in the relationship but if you have an actual problem to get solved his newer stuff is like listening to a monk who answers questions on legitimate problems with a haiku.



LOL. I spent about five hours watching Schiller last April. It didn't help that he was assigned to the coldest barn in St. Paul with the most uncomfortable bleachers. He talked for a very long time about sitting in cold water. The main two things I got out of his sessions that had anything to do with horses were he thinks using Hands-On grooming gloves and walking in step with your horse are good ways to improve your connection. I'm hoping the girls who brought their horses were volunteers and didn't have to pay for the tiny bit of instruction they received.


One thing I'll say about Schiller is for a man of his age, his physical condition is astonishing. I think he would leave Clinton Anderson in the dust in any foot race longer than a sprint.


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## Alaya

jgnmoose said:


> I like Buck, Tom & BIll Dorrance, and Ray Hunt. I think if you had all day to mess with one horse and years to figure out what the hell these masters are talking about you would learn a lot and have nice horses.
> 
> One of my biggest criticisms of a young horse trainer I've come across a few times is he knows how to sound like them and get some decent results with problemed horses, but I'm not sure he knows how to make a clear point yet. That is something nobody from this school of horsemanship is able to get done.
> 
> Proclaiming "there!" when the horse does something good is just not an effective teaching tool for people. I half think they have such a following because there are just that many people out there that are way over-horsed with a hot mess and don't ride very well to begin with.
> 
> Warwick Schiller is a gifted trainer, but I don't care for the esoteric lectures on human psychology. That definitely plays a part in the relationship but if you have an actual problem to get solved his newer stuff is like listening to a monk who answers questions on legitimate problems with a haiku.
> 
> The more I see different trainers, the more I think basically anything works as long as the horse understands it.


I have been training horses and watching trainers for many decades, both english and western. WS is the best I have watched and is tuned into the horses better than any I have ever seen. I find his explanations very simple to understand and extremely helpful. His combination of psychology for both humans and horses is effective and very refreshing. No ego, just honesty and effective training. No haiku experience at all for me.


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## marymane

With a lot of clinicians I think watching their videos or reading about their methods would be more helpful most of the time (as far as general learning/having a philosophy about training/working with horses sort of deal) unless the clinic is for something very specific. Otherwise most people are probably better off just going to a one on one trainer/lessons or even group lessons. I like watching WS content on the internet and I enjoy his more abstract/philosophical bits too (it helps that when watching clips online they're often shorter/edited segments and more to the point, in small doses all the anecdotes and such are appreciated personally). I feel like, regardless of how good the clinician is or how much one likes them, most of the clinics are just pretty general for the most part and people like going to them more so to see the clinician than anything else. At least the bigger name clinicians. Just what I've observed.

I also think most of the content online like his is probably more enjoyable when you just want to take in as much as you can and think about things and probably more frustrating if you're looking to solve a specific problem that needs fixed in the now.

I would personally be much comfortable finding someone to give a training session that's more private than to have crowds (however small) or worse being recorded. Both of those would probably make me anxious. It also probably wouldn't cost as much.

(I also think that in regards to "knowing when a change happens" and such more emphasis should be put on learning to read horses body language and such instead of just "timing" or whatever else. I'm not the best at reading horses and there's still a lot to learn but I'm always surprised when people say a horse is misbehaving or being disrespectful when what I see is the horse just being fearful of something, as an example. Telling people who don't really have a frame of reference that they just need to get the timing right is something that frustrates me about a lot of training generalizations a lot of people give out.)

Essentially all that to say I think if you get something out of such clinics then that's great but I personally think they're a bit overrated and all of the clinician's best bits are usually posted online anyway to get more clients. I'd be interested to know what anyone thinks of his DVDs or "library" or whatever he calls it. Has anyway found those helpful or are they just similar to the clinics?


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## Starfishandcoffee

Well, this is a post I never thought I would write since I have been a follower for 3 years, an online subscriber, and a clinic attendee.

I agree with much of what everyone else is saying. I brought an anxious OTTB I had recently rescued from a kill pen, to a clinic he held in my area. I had such a hard time loading my poor guy at the time, that it took almost 3 hours and I had to contact him to let him know I may not be attending. This will be important in a minute, I promise

Fast forward to us arriving and the morning of the clinic. Much time was spent philosophizing with the crowd, telling people whoever was actually watching him while he spoke immediately told him who was engaged or not, along with tales of other clinics and travels around the world, more endorsements for Brene Brown or whoever he is into at the moment... we started to get down to a little business. At the time everyone needed to be sure they had completed a skills or relationship path and to be able to bend or "crab walk" their horse from the ground. Fair enough. We were divided into a group of 6 for this so it was quite a lot of time to spend standing there or constantly working a nervous horse while waiting your turn. I was hopeful that he would see I was having difficulty and come over to assist me but no such luck. When my time did come he was fine and it was enjoyable but I didn't feel like we got to cover the things I had emailed and spoken to him about through the site, which I was assured we would cover at the clinic...so with that said, I wouldn't spend the money to go when that could be accomplished via video without the extra hurdle of loading a very stressed horse.

Now back to the loading situation...As the clinic was winding down and nothing was really going on, my horse was again having trouble loading and it would have been nice to not only be allowed to ask that question during my clinic time, but for him to notice and at least offer a tip. He actually was commenting on it with his mic still on, so I knew that he was aware I was struggling, lol. Sort of made me sympathize with a fly who has a kid watching its wings getting pulled off.

My beef still isn't really here, but is around the direction his group is starting to go on Facebook. He allows any sort of transcendental quack of the day to post their thoughts and opinions and direct it at the group. When asked to provide the credentials of said persons, I have found them to be "graduates" of certificated, not necessarily academic programs. Several do not possess licenses to make them safe or legal to dispense the advice that is given, but he freely endorses this and supports it, and is even impressed by it. I think he has become extremely easy to impress and make up, frankly. His responses to his own subscribers and followers are defensive and snarky, and rather childish, literally biting the hands that have fed him so far. It is this behavior that has led me to discontinue my subscription and now leave his groups. It is fine to have your own mystic beliefs and practices, ,but when you start to allow your own judgment and reputation to be taken over by kook of the day, I lose respect rapidly. I find it somewhat reckless.


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## Starfishandcoffee

Joel Reiter said:


> LOL. I spent about five hours watching Schiller last April. It didn't help that he was assigned to the coldest barn in St. Paul with the most uncomfortable bleachers. He talked for a very long time about sitting in cold water. The main two things I got out of his sessions that had anything to do with horses were he thinks using Hands-On grooming gloves and walking in step with your horse are good ways to improve your connection. I'm hoping the girls who brought their horses were volunteers and didn't have to pay for the tiny bit of instruction they received.
> 
> 
> One thing I'll say about Schiller is for a man of his age, his physical condition is astonishing. I think he would leave Clinton Anderson in the dust in any foot race longer than a sprint.





jgnmoose said:


> I like Buck, Tom & BIll Dorrance, and Ray Hunt. I think if you had all day to mess with one horse and years to figure out what the hell these masters are talking about you would learn a lot and have nice horses.
> 
> One of my biggest criticisms of a young horse trainer I've come across a few times is he knows how to sound like them and get some decent results with problemed horses, but I'm not sure he knows how to make a clear point yet. That is something nobody from this school of horsemanship is able to get done.
> 
> Proclaiming "there!" when the horse does something good is just not an effective teaching tool for people. I half think they have such a following because there are just that many people out there that are way over-horsed with a hot mess and don't ride very well to begin with.
> 
> Warwick Schiller is a gifted trainer, but I don't care for the esoteric lectures on human psychology. That definitely plays a part in the relationship but if you have an actual problem to get solved his newer stuff is like listening to a monk who answers questions on legitimate problems with a haiku.
> 
> The more I see different trainers, the more I think basically anything works as long as the horse understands it.


Agree on the haiku entirely. I have really liked him but he is starting to get a little too far out there for my taste when what I need is some practical advice. I will get to my soul on my own terms, haha!


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## marymane

Starfishandcoffee said:


> Well, this is a post I never thought I would wriet since I have been a follower for 3 years, an online subscriber, and a clinic attendee.
> 
> I agree with much of what everyone else is saying. I brought an anxious OTTB I had recently rescued from a kill pen, to a clinic he held in my area. I had such a hard time loading my poor guy at the time, that it took almost 3 hours and I had to contact him to let him know I may not be attending. This will be important in a minute, I promise
> 
> Fast forward to us arriving and the morning of the clinic. Much time was spent philosophizing with the crowd, telling people whoever was actually watching him while he spoke immediately told him who was engaged or not, along with tales of other clinics and travels around the world, more endorsements for Brene Brown or whoever he is into at the moment... we started to get down to a little business. At the time everyone needed to be sure they had completed a skills or relationship path and to be able to bend or "crab walk" their horse from the ground. Fair enough. We were divided into a group of 6 for this so it was quite a lot of time to spend standing there or constantly working a nervous horse while waiting your turn. I was hopeful that he would see I was having difficulty and come over to assist me but no such luck. When my time did come he was fine and it was enjoyable but I didn't feel like we got to cover the things I had emailed and spoken to him about through the site, which I was assured we would cover at the clinic...so with that said, I wouldn't spend the money to go when that could be accomplished via video without the extra hurdle of loading a very stressed horse.
> 
> Now back to the loading situation...As the clinic was winding down and nothing was really going on, my horse was again having trouble loading and it would have been nice to not only be allowed to ask that question during my clinic time, but for him to notice and at least offer a tip. He actually was commenting on it with his mic still on, so I knew that he was aware I was struggling, lol. Sort of made me sympathize with a fly who has a kid watching its wings getting pulled off.
> 
> My beef still isn't really here, but is around the direction his group is starting to go on Facebook. He allows any sort of transcendental quack of the day to post their thoughts and opinions and direct it at the group. When asked to provide the credentials of said persons, I have found them to be "graduates" of certificated, not necessarily academic programs. Several do not possess licenses to make them safe or legal to dispense the advice that is given, but he freely endorses this and supports it, and is even impressed by it. I think he has become extremely easy to impress and bull****, frankly. His responses to his own subscribers and followers are defensive and snarky, and rather childish, literally biting the hands that have fed him so far. It is this behavior that has led me to discontinue my subscription and now leave his groups. It is fine to have your own mystic beliefs and practices, ,but when you start to allow your own judgment and reputation to be taken over by kook of the day, I lose respect rapidly. I find it somewhat reckless.


Well, you know the saying...something something don't be so open minded your brain falls out. Maybe he has fallen victim to this. There can be a fine line between being open to new ideas and being completely uncritical.
I don't like using FB much at all so I have no experience with his or any other trainers' groups are like. But oof.


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## Starfishandcoffee

marymane said:


> Well, you know the saying...something something don't be so open minded your brain falls out. Maybe he has fallen victim to this. There can be a fine line between being open to new ideas and being completely uncritical.
> I don't like using FB much at all so I have no experience with his or any other trainers' groups are like. But oof.


Yes this was a difficult decision! I almost feel like he needs to start his own group about his theories and the like...I don't want to come to a horsemanship page any trainer owns only to have to sift through this sort of thing. But, I of course support his right to do as he pleases. Just disappointed he is not vetting his people better. Definitely an audible oof for me! LOL


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## loosie

Starfishandcoffee said:


> His responses to his own subscribers and followers are defensive and snarky, and rather childish, literally biting the hands that have fed him so far.


Yeah, as said above, I found it a bit.... fluffy & longwinded, albeit good. Just wouldn't personally think it was worth taking a horse to one. But I still had a lot of respect for the guy & how he handles horses, enough that I wanted to learn more & enroll my son in his program - just after that 'audit' I wouldn't have forked out to send him to a clinic. So, not that long after the clinic(& this thread here) I wrote to him for advice. I of course didn't tell him precisely how I viewed the clinic, but I did say that it seemed that it was more of a 'beginners' clinic, and asked if they had different levels, or if he did one-on-one lessons. The reply was... quite condescending actually, was something to the tone of 'well if you already know everything & you don't have any problems with your horses...' I just thought 'oh well, he obviously has too many clients & doesn't want any more'.


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## COWCHICK77

loosie said:


> So, not that long after the clinic(& this thread here) I wrote to him for advice. I of course didn't tell him precisely how I viewed the clinic, but I did say that it seemed that it was more of a 'beginners' clinic, and asked if they had different levels, or if he did one-on-one lessons. The reply was... quite condescending actually, was something to the tone of 'well if you already know everything & you don't have any problems with your horses...' I just thought 'oh well, he obviously has too many clients & doesn't want any more'.


Does he answer his own mail? I know some popular trainer/clinicians have an assistant who deal with emails and messages.

Either way, I'm not defending the condescending response at all, that was quite rude.


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## loosie

Yeah, I was surprised - dunno if it's usual or he just happened to that day - I wrote as if to a 3rd party, assuming there would be an office manager or such, but he answered it himself.


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## COWCHICK77

loosie said:


> Yeah, I was surprised - dunno if it's usual or he just happened to that day - I wrote as if to a 3rd party, assuming there would be an office manager or such, but he answered it himself.


How disappointing.

Y'all on here had been talking about him so last winter I did the free trail on his website to check him out. I enjoyed the videos and added a few things to what I do from him and played around with some of it. There are so many new people trying to do the clinician thing I can't keep track, nor do I really care, but I did like how he put a lot of emphasis on reading a horse rather than "do this with your hand and bend his neck to your toe 18 times".

It seems to become the norm for these guys making a living doing clinics unfortunately, they get burnt out and sour. Sorry it ended that way. it seems you guys have an ideal background to make working with refreshing after months of the pretty pony crowd that is on his FB page..oye.


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## Starfishandcoffee

loosie said:


> Yeah, I was surprised - dunno if it's usual or he just happened to that day - I wrote as if to a 3rd party, assuming there would be an office manager or such, but he answered it himself.


He actually DOES answer his own email, and that DOES sound just like him in his FB group, unfortunately. Pretty disappointing and always hard to see one of your favorites disappoint, I have a great trainer anyway who always answers my questions, throws in free lessons, so really no need to keep up a subscription anyway, I suppose. Just makes me sad since there are people who can barely afford it and who reach out because they really are struggling, only to be met with a smart alec remark. Just not ok to treat anyone that way, let alone your own subscribers.


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## Starfishandcoffee

loosie said:


> Yeah, as said above, I found it a bit.... fluffy & longwinded, albeit good. Just wouldn't personally think it was worth taking a horse to one. But I still had a lot of respect for the guy & how he handles horses, enough that I wanted to learn more & enroll my son in his program - just after that 'audit' I wouldn't have forked out to send him to a clinic. So, not that long after the clinic(& this thread here) I wrote to him for advice. I of course didn't tell him precisely how I viewed the clinic, but I did say that it seemed that it was more of a 'beginners' clinic, and asked if they had different levels, or if he did one-on-one lessons. The reply was... quite condescending actually, was something to the tone of 'well if you already know everything & you don't have any problems with your horses...' I just thought 'oh well, he obviously has too many clients & doesn't want any more'.


That is a perfect example of how he treats people, too. It's just not necessary and it definitely erodes any sort of professionalism, in my opinion. I agree I really like how his horses have turned out and that he is focused on mindfulness in training and such...I just can't stomach the Oprah's Book Club topics he seems to get really into...manifesting his own car crash, all things Brene Brown, reading "The Secret", etc etc etc...I just want him to stick to horsemanship and not really being some sort of guru or spiritual adviser. If he wants to pursue that , good for him, but it's not what I was going to him for, so I'm out. He did mention n the private group at one point how he had wanted to be on a reality TV show (not sure if it was horses or what), but that it didn't work out... I think the bottom line is he is really trying to get some attention or interviewed on Super Soul Sunday or something...I just find it obnoxious.


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## waresbear

I find him weird. Some of his videos have a snippet of practical instruction, rest is mind set, fine, but spell it out buddy.


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## tinyliny

Starfishandcoffee said:


> That is a perfect example of how he treats people, too. It's just not necessary and it definitely erodes any sort of professionalism, in my opinion. I agree I really like how his horses have turned out and that he is focused on mindfulness in training and such...I just can't stomach the Oprah's Book Club topics he seems to get really into...manifesting his own car crash, all things Brene Brown, reading "The Secret", etc etc etc...I just want him to stick to horsemanship and not really being some sort of guru or spiritual adviser. If he wants to pursue that , good for him, but it's not what I was going to him for, so I'm out. He did mention n the private group at one point how he had wanted to be on a reality TV show (not sure if it was horses or what), but that it didn't work out... I think the bottom line is he is really trying to get some attention or interviewed on Super Soul Sunday or something...I just find it obnoxious.



is this for real???? I can hardly imagine I did not realize there were even more reasons to dislike this personality.


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## Ah Ha Moments

loosie said:


> Be interesting to hear from others who have been to one of his clinics too - here's my opinion...
> 
> Went to watch a Warwick Schiller clinic on the weekend, and was VERY impressed by his horsemanship & principles. I think I can say I heard/saw absolutely nothing I remotely disagreed with - which for my opinionated self is saying a lot - can't recall anyone who I have agreed with 100% with before!
> 
> Boy he is a rambler tho - reckon he can ramble on more than me even! Kept going off on tangents... albeit interesting ones. He talked virtually non stop, with only a couple very short breaks, so it was also almost unbroken lecture all day - bit of 'information overload', hard to recall much specifics, so this thread is also a bit of a 'memory jog' & getting what I do remember down.
> 
> While I can't say I actually learned anything horse-wise(Tho I was reminded of a few forgotten or discounted gems), he is big on 'self help' & there were a few little... mindset /mindfulness exercises I think I will find very valuable. Darcy, my 16yo who came with me said they don't think they saw/learned anything new either, but that they felt certain things I'd taught them already were worthy of more focus, getting more particular about than they thought before.
> 
> I found his attitude refreshing... eg. he spent quite a bit of time with 2 participants, when they were riding, on helping them get better at 'bending to a stop' - what I call teaching a 'one rein stop' - but then spent time explaining he doesnt agree with 'one rein stops' as his perception of that is to force. He also came across to me as a 'natural horsemanship' type but explained that he hated the term & felt it was largely meaningless & often no less forceful, no more considerate of the horse than non labled approaches. He explained his mindset on those type 'discrepancies' very well I thought. He was also very slow & clear & very low key/gentle with the horses (generally - there was one mare that a couple of times...).
> 
> While people participating seemed relative 'beginners' & don't know if he has more advanced workshops & if he runs those any differently, didn't really like the way he did the clinic personally - 12 participants who after he just talked to us for nearly 2 hours, brought their horses in, 3 at a time, for 2 hours. In that time, they were told to be completely focussed on their horses, totally ignore him, audience or other participants unless he was actively talking to/helping them personally. Great principle I reckon, to be really 'present' & focussed when you're with your horse, but for the sake of attending a clinic... meant that between him doing bits with everyone else & talking to the audience, they prob got about a half hour max hands on instruction from him in the day and didn't have all that much opportunity to learn by watching others with their horses, which is a big plus of group workshops IMO.
> 
> Another fantastic principle that he stuck to, which many 'experts'(see the recent 'experts' thread for definition. If you can find it...) tend to foresake, in favour of a better show, was not doing more than the very basics, if he felt that was needed. For e.g. he is big on getting a connection first & foremost & with a horse who was a little anxious & distracted, he advised the owner just 'match steps' & essentially just walk around beside her horse wherever it wanted to go. Another girl who's horse was rather... jaded & dull, he advised she let the horse loose in the arena & just spend the time letting her go wherever, but frequently just asking the horse to look at the girl. So thats what these 2 did for the whole time. Might have been an important principle to impress on them, but i would have felt rather... ripped off if I'd paid for a clinic to only do that. Also for the rest of us, it was little more interesting than watching paint dry after the first 5 minutes.
> 
> So... considering they were important principles, not sure how he could have done that better - maybe explaining he feels those things should be done 'ad-nauseum' for a certain horse, but here & now, for the sake of the clinic, lets do 10 mins then learn some different things the pair may be ready for. And learning from others... Maybe if he had only one person in at a time - then they would have his undivided attention & they would also not miss watching how he helps 8/12 of the others, but only the one either side of their 'slot'.
> 
> I was going to book Darcy in for one of his clinics but I left thinking while a private lesson would be awesome if he did them, one of his vids would likely be more worthwhile than a clinic.


*I’m a huge fan. His principals are spot on. He encourages folks to set aside their ego and control issues, get peaceful, and look at the amazing creature before them: the horse. He suggests books that can help. He’s a wonderful human being IMO. Honest, humble, working on himself, and he knows a ton about horses.
My horses have never happier and the consequence is that they are healthier.
Truly magical!*


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## horselovinguy

*MODERATORS NOTE:*

This thread is from January of 2020, so old and dusty now.
We appreciate our members comments but please be aware of dates all comments have whether current or old.
Since this is a old thread our operating platform plopped in our midst, no comments or activity recent on it and the original poster not here in more than 6 months....
The moderation teams apologies but we have CLOSED this thread for any further comments.

If you need information or would like to share something it would be far more productive to start a new thread than comment on old & dusty.
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THREAD CLOSED*


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