# Moving forward (literally) with Kodak



## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Alright, so I'm pretty comfortable riding Kodak these days. She rarely spooks, but when she does, it's not as violent and I'm able to stay on (partly thanks to my Aussie saddle). We went through several weeks of desensitizing with a trainer and I'm reasonably happy with the results. She'll always be a little more worried about her surroundings than a go-with-the-flow horse like Harley, but most of the time, she's relaxed and pleasant to ride. 

For a while, every time I asked for a trot, she would launch into the canter. I'm happy to say that we overcame that as well (mostly just me correcting her every time she cantered and asking again over, and over, and over). She now trots on cue without a problem and only canters when I make a kissing noise (this tells me she knew the cue for cantering, but for some reason, chose to canter even when I was asking her to trot - this could be related to saddle fit, flexibility issues or just the fact that as a cow horse, she was used to going from walk to lope without hardly ever trotting). I am able to w/t/c in circles and she transitions when asked, but not very smoothly. She is pretty good about staying in gait too, but that required a lot of prompting from me to keep her going because she used to want to transition down on her own accord. 

I would now like to polish this a bit so it's more pleasant for both of us. Here's the issue we're dealing with: she drifts in constantly. I'm having to correct her over and over again with my legs, seat and hands. I feel like I'm always pulling on her mouth because her head will tilt in and I'm trying to keep her head in front of her body. The faster we go, the more she does it - but that's partly me not having as much control because there is less time to use my aids before she drifts. I'm thinking of setting up cones and/or poles to set a path around the outside of the ring so I (and she) have a visual barrier. 

I do think part of this behavior is due to her "worriness". We often ride in the evening and the riding arena is surrounded by woods. Animals, mostly deer, often come out of those woods and while they do not cause her to spook, she is always watching for them and worrying that they are going to come out. She feels safer in the middle of the arena than on the edges.

Another issue is collection. This could also be related to saddle fit or flexibility issues (she is being seen by an equine massage therapist/chiropractor). She wants to stick her nose out and does not reach into the bit. I've tried sponging, but she pretty well ignores it (maybe I'm doing it wrong?). I've watched a couple of videos, but am not confident I have the ability to do it on my own. So I'm thinking of doing some more lessons with my daughter's coach in an effort to work better with Kodak. However, she can only come out every couple of weeks at best and we are losing daylight quickly so unless I set up lights in the riding arena, those lessons will soon come to an abrupt halt. 

Any thoughts/tips? Lunging is not helping - I thought it might help teach her to bend, but nope. She doesn't lunge very well so it's a whole other set of issues when I try to lunge her. She will go around, but will continually fall in no matter how many times I push her out with the whip. She does not collect and her bend is on and off. As in, she might do well for a few strides, then crane her neck to look at something and she's all crooked again. Her circles are pretty wonky. And yes, I realize this is something that can be improved, but I don't like to lunge a horse unnecessarily for very long periods of time. Though I suppose, if some of you think it might help, I could make a point of lunging her for 15-20 minutes every couple of days. Would you use side reins? I tried that last night, but she was very confused so I ended up taking them off. I think they may have been too short (they're Harley's), but I could add an extension. 

Any advice would be appreciated. Oh, my goals for her are not lofty. I plan on mostly doing trail riding. But I still feel control of her body is important. I should say though, she isn't like this on a trail. I don't have to keep correcting her - she goes where I ask her to pretty easily.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

The "on the bit" part does not come from the head, it comes from the hind legs. Practice some spirals. You may need a crop to help her understand your aids, but that is not mean, that is training.

As you spiral in, gradually ask for the entire body to bend, corresponding to the size of the circle. Make tge small circle in the middle as round and smooth as you can, then shift your weight conciously to tge outside stirrup, move your inside leg back, and ask her to step to the outside circle. 

This with help her carry the weight on the inside hind leg, and step under herself, which is required to be on the bit. 

Sounds like she is really coming along!!


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

Forward forward forward ! 'On the bit' can take a long time for horses to get or be able to hold for more then a few seconds. My horses is only now holding on the long side. 


Lots of transitions and poles can build strength as well.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Thanks greentree and Rainaisabelle! Will try to put your suggestions in place. I'm intrigued by the spiral exercise. I don't have a problem using the crop, but have avoided doing so because she's a very spooky horse and reacts strongly. 

I have been getting her to go over poles Rainaisabelle, but that was completely new to her! In fact, she spooked very badly at a pole once. She then went to curiously sniffing them and ever-so-carefully stepping over them like they were coiled snakes!  Next, she started walking over them normally, but with her head lowered as she eyed them carefully. Now I can get her to walk over them without really changing her position, but haven't practiced at the trot yet. I worry she will step on one and scare herself so I thought I'd practice walking over them some more before we try it at the trot. Maybe I could hand-trot her over some poles first. I don't want to go flying off her if she suddenly decides those poles are terrifying again.


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

Acadianartist said:


> Thanks greentree and Rainaisabelle! Will try to put your suggestions in place. I'm intrigued by the spiral exercise. I don't have a problem using the crop, but have avoided doing so because she's a very spooky horse and reacts strongly.
> 
> I have been getting her to go over poles Rainaisabelle, but that was completely new to her! In fact, she spooked very badly at a pole once. She then went to curiously sniffing them and ever-so-carefully stepping over them like they were coiled snakes!  Next, she started walking over them normally, but with her head lowered as she eyed them carefully. Now I can get her to walk over them without really changing her position, but haven't practiced at the trot yet. I worry she will step on one and scare herself so I thought I'd practice walking over them some more before we try it at the trot. Maybe I could hand-trot her over some poles first. I don't want to go flying off her if she suddenly decides those poles are terrifying again.


If you have Facebook look up Horsephysio no spaces they have some amazing videos !


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Rainaisabelle said:


> If you have Facebook look up Horsephysio no spaces they have some amazing videos !


Found and liked! Thanks!


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## equinesmitten (Sep 5, 2010)

A couple of thoughts. 

1. On the bit never is about "sponging" or "see sawing". Typically, things that bring the horse's nose down involuntarily are also things that compromise the hind end coming through. What you want to establish is stretching for the bit. It takes time and a lot of good feel. You have to have some kind of feel of the horse's mouth in your hands. If you feel nothing, he's not light. He's just tucked his nose on the vertical or behind it.  I take some nice following light contact with my hands and when I feel the horse stretch down and out, I let him out a little more and little more. I look for the feeling of the horse resting comfortably in my hands, awaiting the next set of orders. I make a "high and tight" head position not near as comfortable (by not following so much with my elbows) as "long and low". And I use my voice a LOT. I praise the littlest effort in the right direction at the beginning. Pretty soon, they decide long and low is where it's at! I also teach long and low on the lunge. 

2. Lunging: I'm a huge proponent of proper lunging. You have to instill some basics first from the ground. I teach mine to move away from my dressage whip by tapping a body part. For example, I want him to move his shoulders away from me, I tap his shoulder until he makes the attempt to move away. Stop and praise. Same with the haunches. When they figure out that as I step toward a body part, or point at it with a whip, they are to move it away from me, I start to lunge. That's how you will keep them on a true circle. If you feel this horse is safe and won't kick you, I would start with a small work circle at walk with a dressage whip or other shorter training stick. Teach her in a calm way that her job is to stay at the end of the lead line, always. So, lets say you are on left bend. When her left shoulder falls in towards you, you move towards the offending shoulder. She should move away from you and head out to the end of the line again. Rinse and repeat.  You can make the circles bigger as she progresses. (Some will probably say this is backwards but in my experience explaining things on a small calm circle just works better.) (Now, if you think the horse will kick or strike at you, you don't work in this close proximity! You do work on a bigger circle, out of the kick zone with a long lung whip!) I try to keep all lunge work calm no matter what. I slowly explain everything at walk and then amp it up when basics are solid. But basically, if your horse isn't minding your aids on the ground, she probably won't mind them under saddle either. 

Hope that helps? And of course, every horse is different. What might work for me and mine may not work for you and yours.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

equinesmitten said:


> A couple of thoughts.
> 
> 1. On the bit never is about "sponging" or "see sawing". Typically, things that bring the horse's nose down involuntarily are also things that compromise the hind end coming through. What you want to establish is stretching for the bit. It takes time and a lot of good feel. You have to have some kind of feel of the horse's mouth in your hands. If you feel nothing, he's not light. He's just tucked his nose on the vertical or behind it.  I take some nice following light contact with my hands and when I feel the horse stretch down and out, I let him out a little more and little more. I look for the feeling of the horse resting comfortably in my hands, awaiting the next set of orders. I make a "high and tight" head position not near as comfortable (by not following so much with my elbows) as "long and low". And I use my voice a LOT. I praise the littlest effort in the right direction at the beginning. Pretty soon, they decide long and low is where it's at! I also teach long and low on the lunge.
> 
> ...


It does help! Thank you! 

The explanation of the "low and long" is very clear to me. Will try to put this into action immediately! I do understand it has to come from behind, but did not know how to achieve that. 

As for the lunging, I think I need to go back to basics. Treat her like she's a baby learning for the first time. She will never kick or show aggression so I'm not at all worried about that. She does understand to move away from the whip, but as soon as she gets to the end of it, she stays there. She will go out further, but when she falls in, I can't reach her to move her out so she keeps falling in. If I try to push her out with my body, she turns to me. Not in an aggressive stance, more insecurity. At that point, I react by pushing her out again, as hard as I have to (so with a fair bit of energy, but I've never had to hit her with the whip or anything like that). But maybe if I start at the basics again, we can establish better communication and avoid her constantly making mistakes. I feel like I'm just setting us up to fail right now. 

The bottom line with Kodak is that she clearly has a lot of holes in her training. She also has a difficult history which has led to fear and anxiety so sometimes, that flight instinct takes over. It seems logical to me then to start at the basics so we fill the knowledge gaps as we go.


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## equinesmitten (Sep 5, 2010)

Sorry, I should add that when you let the contact out and down, don't give it away. You still have to feel the horse's mouth even in a long and low stretch or it doesn't count!  Some horses are better at this at walk, some at trot. My QH stretches like a pro in walk. The TB does it better at trot.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

it sounds like all of these problems come from being unable to bend. my guess is that it comes out much more in one direction than the other. think about that. does she fall in going one way predominantly?

lateral flexion will be essential to help her work toward longitudinal flexion (learning to accept and come to the bit, and collect)

so, for now, do not worry one bit about whether or not she sticks her nose out front or not. that will become softer when the lateral movements, that are blocked in the poll at this time, are 'broken loose'.


as Equinesmittne said, work with 'lunging', but very small circles at walk only. I would use a rope halter and leadline, but a traditional halter and lead line is fine. a lung line is too flimsy and too long to manage for this sort of short work.

start her walking around you, say, going left (your left). have the rope long enough that there is some drape, but short enough that if you lift it upward, you can make it taut, and affect her head.

as she walks around you use your leading hand to suggest that she walk forward, but also have a dressge whip that you can point at her shoulder to tell her to stand upright (not lean in). to do this, its as if you are asking her to leg yield away from you. first, you need to slow her forward progress a little and get her THINKING laterally. 

use the rope to get her to slow by raising your hand, and putting a little wiggle on it. that says, "hey, don't jsut plow forward! pay attention !" then at almost the same time, LOOK at her shoulder, say, "out!" and put body language energy on it, and wave the whip toward her. 

look to see her move that shoulder out AND take her hand out , too. not just swing her shoulder away and leave her hind end poiting at you. that means she just boarded up . she put no bend in her body. you want her shoulder to move away a bit more than her hind, but more importantly, you'll see her inside hind step under her belly a bit as she 'stands up". instead of leaning with the inside shoulder popped, she will 'pop' it out the other way and step under her self and move away from you. do not stop asking for this until you see that one step of acual leg yield from you. then, stop asking for sideways and go back to allowing forward.

\
it's as if you are half halting with your leading hand, and your driving hand creates the lateral bend and step. if you don't have the support of a bit of a restrainning hand in front, she will likely only speed up with the shoulder pressure.

if she does't 'get it", then you may have to step in pretty close and somewhat 'pull' her head around toward you a bit, forcing her to bend and step away. don't do that very much, but some horses are very stiff and reqauire support to make them pop the inside shoulder outward.

eventually, you use bigger circles, and instead of a real restraining hand in front, you just lift the line the tiniest bit, and mentally 'push' on the shoulder as a reminder and she'll pick it right up and move vertical (not leaning inward).

when she is soft at walk, you move onto trot. and you don't do more than about 15 minutes of this really close in work.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

this is going to be a bit far off what you think is the problem, but this article talks a bit about the whole concept of yielding the hind quarters, and putting softness and bend into a horse.

save it, and if it doesn't make sense to you now, it will in a few years.:


Blog

and another good article by this person

http://www.goodhorsemanship.com.au/Lunging/lunging.html


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

Just a thought from a backyard hack. Trail horses are not ridden "on the bit" but some flexibility with in the barrel is expected to help guide the horse down the trail. Kodak is transitioning from a "trail" or backyard horse with the basics for training to a rider who wants to use her for pleasure but who is expecting things out of her that an arena horse would know. 

I ride many miles each week, I never ride my horse on the bit - I occasionally do suppling exercises or work on hind end yields. I love reading the posts of those on this forum that ride at a more technical level than I do - but I do not aspire to ride like that nor do I expect my trail horse to respond to being ridden like that. 
Artist - in my humble opinion - you are going to need to start her at ground zero for this type of riding. From your past posts about Kodak I think she was a trail horse with some reining work put on her - so some of what you are expecting will be very very foreign to her. Slow and easy like you have been working with her and she will do whatever you want her to do.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

I agree that she does not need to be "on the bit", but she DOES need to learn to carry the weight properly in her hind legs, and step under, to fix what Acadian artist sees as problems....just going from her wondetfil descriptions!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

I might not have explained it perfectly, but greentree is right, I would like her to round her back a little more and collect a little more. It just feels like trotting and cantering would be more pleasant this way, more controlled if you will. It seems to me that Kodak's drifting and rough steering is all connected to her lack of bending and collecting in the right places. 

From riding Harley all of last winter, I remember how pleasant it was to have a horse under me that collected and turned at the slightest cue. I'm not meaning to compare Kodak to Harley, but I know she can improve and I know what it's like to ride a very well-trained horse. 

In the end, I suppose what I am really hoping to achieve is better communication with my horse. Like carshon, I really hope to mostly ride on trails, but sometimes we do arena work because I feel Kodak and I both can use the practice. At some point, we may not do any arena work anymore, but for now, I feel like we're not always "clicking" as much as I'd like us to and things like collection and reaching for the bit seemed like things I could work towards.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

tinyliny said:


> it sounds like all of these problems come from being unable to bend. my guess is that it comes out much more in one direction than the other. think about that. does she fall in going one way predominantly?
> 
> lateral flexion will be essential to help her work toward longitudinal flexion (learning to accept and come to the bit, and collect)
> 
> ...


Thanks tinyliny! This is very, very useful! You may be right that this all comes down to her bending issues. And yes, she does have a better bend on one side than the other, but I see it on both sides. 

Will try this technique with her.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

stiffness can be both physical and mental . the horse might not be able to elongate the 'outside' of the bend because the muscles on that side are atrophied, or contracted. it is really the outside of the bend that is the part that needs 'suppling' and stretching. but to do that , you have to bend the horse to the inside, and push them onto the outside shoudler a bit. 

walking circles counter bent is another thing to do.

but, quite often, as much as any physical limitation is a horse that is mentally braced against the rein. you may be able to force them to not fall into the circle, using a strong inside leg, but all you are doing is meeting their lean with your own 'lean"; meeting brace with brace.

you want to interrupt that way of thinking and get THEM to think about moving their OWN shoulder off, with their OWN strength, not you pushing a board stiff horse over, with them not changing one iota of their mental braciness.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

tinyliny said:


> stiffness can be both physical and mental . the horse might not be able to elongate the 'outside' of the bend because the muscles on that side are atrophied, or contracted. it is really the outside of the bend that is the part that needs 'suppling' and stretching. but to do that , you have to bend the horse to the inside, and push them onto the outside shoudler a bit.
> 
> walking circles counter bent is another thing to do.
> 
> ...


Yes, exactly! I couldn't put it quite in the terms you have, but yes, constantly having to push her out did not seem like a logical way to go forward in the long term. And yes, with her, it is as much a mental block as it is physical. I know she has physical issues from some past trauma, but those same trauma(s) have also created a mental block that is hard to work through. 

Will try the lunging exercise you suggested. 

Turns out it's going to be impossible to get the coach here to work with us anytime soon because of her busy schedule and the fact that we are losing daylight very quickly. So I'm on my own for the time being. This forum is a lifesaver!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

you can even start really small . things like just getting her to bend in and follow a small feel from the leadline asking her to just bend at the poll , laterally, and look toward you. (stand at her side, near her sholder.)
you see how much she can/she will 'give' you without bracing up and resisting. when she does resist, just wait there for a bit. just patiently keep the pressure on, and let her decide what to do. if she just stays there, leaning on it without a change, then put a couple of tiny bumps in the line, or slap you leg to make a little nose. this is to break up her stuck thinking. this gives her another chance to CHOOSE.

when you pick up the line and you put a feel that says, "come left". she can choose to either ignore, to follow that, or to resist it. you give her a chance , by not rewarding that choice, to choose again, but if she can't, do some little thing to break her out of that stuck place. 
work on getting her to follow the feel around, moveing it farther and farther, but never pulling against the brace. you resist it, but you don't overpower and pull her head around. nor do you release until she softens. never release while she is still bracing.

also, don't ask for so much bend that her head gets all tilted. that means her nose should not come up, while her ears come down . horses who are stiff in the neck can get a lot further around by doing this twist, sort of rolling the head , but it doesn't address the stiffness in the neck and sholder of the outside of the bend., and it only puts them hard onto the forehand.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I typed out a whole reply...

Summary was to slow waayyyy down and not get ahead of her. It's comendable you want her more sensitive and to have body control but you can't start at the top of the pyramid. It takes a long time to get a horse like that. Honestly, trying when you don't know what you're asking for and before the horse is ready won't go well. She's a good sport keep her that way.










Sounds like a lot of the problems are her being overly sensitive and you correcting inappropriately or riding her like you would ride Harley (yes, it's different). A kissing noise is not a canter cue, if you want to train it that way, fine, but sounds like she was just being overly sensitive to your cues, whether her or you who can say...maybe both. Why are you pulling her head to the inside if you want her to stop drifting?? You want body control you need to ask for it.. Also about the head in front, worry about her body.

Collection and even rounding are a LONG way off, it will come as every thing else comes. Don't rush her. I don't think lunging will make any difference (though would work on it anyways, cause I'm me lol). Please DO NOT put Harley's side reins on her, sounds like you don't know how to use them (adjust properly) and even adjusted properly they can be very dangerous. If you want her in side reins I would have the trainer adjust them and be there the first few times you lunge her...IF she's even ready for them.

Anyways... my post was much more positive sounding and it's great she's doing so well. Just to slow down and let things come and stop overthinking (are you surprised that I said that? XD) Remember how far she's already come!!

I think lessons would be great.. even if you have limited time, just one or two would make a HUGE difference I think.

Oh and all those problems can and should be working on at the slower gaits first. I'm a little confused cause you say she doesn't bend but you make it sound like she overbends? But regardless, start on say a 10m circle (at a walk) and have her dramatically bend...then walk off.. etc. Just baby steps, and work on ONE thing at a time.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

lunging, using a lunge line, has a major pitfall, unless done correctly. 
Tension in that lunge line, is going to tip that head in more then you want, drop that inside shoulder, which in turn pops the hips out
I do using lunging some, when gradually bitting him up, first starting under saddle.
I agree on not going on to the lope or canter, until things are right at the trot
The process of bitting a horse up, over time, while lunging, has been gone into before, so won't be repetitive, however, once a horse does understand how to give to abit barrier, I will lunge him bitted up, , just to the point he has slack, when face is on the vertical, and with inside rein slightly shorter then outside
You also drive the horse up from behind as needed, using the lunge whip, as obviously, you have no legs to do that with!
Riding- you get a horse to learn to stay evenly between the reins and legs, and allow him to learn to stay their on his won, correcting him only as needed, versus trying to hold him there. You are quite correct, that you can't ride a board !
Maybe you need to go back and put some more basics on her, like leg yields, turn on forehand, turn on haunches, moving off a rein against her neck, so she learns to seek that neutral position, where she is even between the two reins, leaning on neither
A very simple exercise, to check and improve guide, is to simply set up a pylon, and ride an ever circle around it, trying to do so on a loose rein, correcting any drift in or out, using you legs, not the reins.You can then easily tell if arib is hanging in, a shoulder is dropping or running away to the outside, ect
Reins only control the horse from the withers forwards, legs the rest, and if you keep that in mind, you will not be riding a'baord'


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

tinyliny - what you describe is similar to the exercise my equine massage therapist is having me do. She has to bend at the neck while standing still. We do it in her stall, because any other time I ask her to bend at the neck, she moves her legs. It may be that I'm asking wrong. Or it's possible she still feels very stiff and tries to avoid bending her neck. 

Yogiwick - I'm sorry your reply got lost in the virtual world somewhere. I appreciate you taking the time to retype most of it. If I look at the triangle, I'd say we're at relaxation, but sometimes we go back to rythm. So pretty far off from what I'm expecting of her. Don't worry about hurting my feelings - I appreciate the feedback. 

The kissing noise is what people use here as a canter cue. That, along with the outside leg behind the girth. When I tried it, she immediately responded by cantering without me needing to do anything else, therefore someone somewhere has taught her this. 

As for the side reins, they were something our trainer suggested I do with Harley when he wasn't holding his neck in a good position. She showed me how to attach them and how to lunge him with them on. When I put them on Kodak, I put them on the very last hole, but she was confused by them and kept turning her nose forward on the lunge line because the outside rein was tugging at her mouth. Given that she has a longer neck than Harley and tends to stretch out, it was immediately clear to me that this wasn't going to work with her so I took them off. They weren't tight when she walked in a straight line, but she was uncomfortable turning with them and I know that you have to start with a long side rein and gradually take it in as the horse learns to tuck in. That said, I fully understand why you say I shouldn't use them (I didn't intend to do it again, at least not with these side reins, because they were just confusing her). I do not pretend to know what I don't. It worked well for Harley, so I thought I'd try it with Kodak, but when it wasn't working, I took them off. I have at least that much sense! 

And yes, she's such a good sport. She puts up with all my clumsy attempts to work with her and really wants to do the right thing. But so do I. We are both clumsily trying to go forward together, but that desire must count for something right? 

Thank you for reminding me to keep my expectations realistic. 

Smilie - yes, I think going back to the basics is a good idea. She does yield to my leg, it's just that I have to keep pushing her out all the time. Will try pushing her with just my legs. 

And she does bend on the lunge line, but doesn't keep the bend. So she might do half a circle pretty well, but then either fall in, or change her trajectory because she's about to go by that horse-eating tree and our circle is messed up. Will try smaller circles to see if it helps.

The good thing about all this is that she is willing and seems to like working.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> stiffness can be both physical and mental . the horse might not be able to elongate the 'outside' of the bend because the muscles on that side are atrophied, or contracted. it is really the outside of the bend that is the part that needs 'suppling' and stretching. but to do that , you have to bend the horse to the inside, and push them onto the outside shoudler a bit.


Good advice, especially from @tinyliny and @Yogiwick. The only thing I would say different regarding the above quote is that the shorter side muscles are usually not "atrophied," but instead are stronger and larger, which makes them less flexible.

I think it's great to know how to assess if a horse is physically crooked, which can be done by standing on something behind the horse and looking down at the back and shoulders. There is a photo in this link that shows a horse with crooked shoulders.

Uneven Shoulders

Although this is a fairly common problem, with some horses the amount of muscling behind the shoulder is so significant on one side that it becomes a real impediment to turning and stretching. A bigger muscle is less flexible (to illustrate: many right hand dominant people cannot reach their right hand up as far behind their back as their left). It also can make things difficult when riding in a saddle. We teach horses to be sensitive to seat and weight cues, but if a horse has a lot more muscle on one side, the rider's weight will fall more onto the opposite side, which can also result in pushing the horse in one direction constantly.

If you look at a horse and assess them to be very crooked, you may have to build more muscles on the flexible side and stretch the inflexible side from groundwork before you can get good results or straightness under saddle. 
My mare has a massive left shoulder, and each time after a several weeks break from riding I have to work on her flexibility and get her straighter again.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Acadianartist said:


> tinyliny - what you describe is similar to the exercise my equine massage therapist is having me do. She has to bend at the neck while standing still. We do it in her stall, because any other time I ask her to bend at the neck, she moves her legs. It may be that I'm asking wrong. Or it's possible she still feels very stiff and tries to avoid bending her neck.
> 
> Yogiwick - I'm sorry your reply got lost in the virtual world somewhere. I appreciate you taking the time to retype most of it. If I look at the triangle, I'd say we're at relaxation, but sometimes we go back to rythm. So pretty far off from what I'm expecting of her. Don't worry about hurting my feelings - I appreciate the feedback.
> 
> ...


^That is the starting point of anything.

Just remember that you have to go through a,b,c, before h,i,j, that's all


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

I watched someone once who had used side reins on a trained horse, then put them on a horse who didn't have a clue about them. Poor thing went up, almost over, caught himself and sat like a dog looking confused.

I have no experience with the them, so I have never used them. My riding coach prefers not to use them when teaching a horse to learn to carry himself correctly/work in a frame.... Yada, yada, yada.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

gottatrot said:


> Good advice, especially from @tinyliny and @Yogiwick. The only thing I would say different regarding the above quote is that the shorter side muscles are usually not "atrophied," but instead are stronger and larger, which makes them less flexible.
> 
> I think it's great to know how to assess if a horse is physically crooked, which can be done by standing on something behind the horse and looking down at the back and shoulders. There is a photo in this link that shows a horse with crooked shoulders.
> 
> ...


Great link gottatrot! Being on the short side, I really can't tell what Kodak's shoulders are doing unless I'm riding her and having been taught to never look down at your horse, well, I don't look at them then either. I do know, from my equine massage therapist, that she has ribs sticking out on the right side, seemingly from some past injury. So very likely there is some asymmetry throughout her body. Will try to look at her from above as the article suggests.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

sarahfromsc said:


> I watched someone once who had used side reins on a trained horse, then put them on a horse who didn't have a clue about them. Poor thing went up, almost over, caught himself and sat like a dog looking confused.
> 
> I have no experience with the them, so I have never used them. My riding coach prefers not to use them when teaching a horse to learn to carry himself correctly/work in a frame.... Yada, yada, yada.


Sounds like I was lucky Kodak was as patient as she was! 

What I was taught about using side reins is that initially, they should be so loose that the horse does not feel confined at all. Then as they get used to them, you bring them in a little. Given that I could not make them loose enough for Kodak to move comfortably in a circle (though she was fine going straight), they were clearly not working. 

That said, I understand they can be a controversial tool and that there are other ways to get Kodak to bend and flex which I will be exploring now, thanks to the great advice of all the people on this forum!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Acadianartist said:


> Sounds like I was lucky Kodak was as patient as she was!
> 
> What I was taught about using side reins is that initially, they should be so loose that the horse does not feel confined at all. Then as they get used to them, you bring them in a little. Given that I could not make them loose enough for Kodak to move comfortably in a circle (though she was fine going straight), they were clearly not working.
> 
> That said, I understand they can be a controversial tool and that there are other ways to get Kodak to bend and flex which I will be exploring now, thanks to the great advice of all the people on this forum!


FWIW my comment didn't come from any controversy, just from a safety standpoint. I have no problems with side reins used correctly, but people think of them as snapping on a lead rope a lot of the time.


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## equinesmitten (Sep 5, 2010)

Yogiwick said:


> FWIW my comment didn't come from any controversy, just from a safety standpoint. I have no problems with side reins used correctly, but people think of them as snapping on a lead rope a lot of the time.[/QUOTE
> 
> I agree. Side reins used correctly are a good tool. That is, set loosely. They should never be used to keep a horse's head down. They should only be set to remind a horse that throwing their head up is not comfortable. Also, they should never be set unevenly. Some use side reins to keep the head down and create "bend" but that is only bend in the neck. Bend in the spine is what you're after. That cannot be created by side reins.


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

We used a market harbough ? (Not sure of the spelling) on Roy for a lesson and half of a ride it seemed easier? For me to sort of work with him, he didn't fight the contact but you had to be very insistent that he do it, after we used the market he seemed to understand better what I wanted and he really worked! Just a thought not for everyone.


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

Just saying though it won't give you collection at all


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

for a horse that is falling into a circle becuase of inability to bend laterally, side reins / german martingale are not a solution. 

I took lessons in a german martingale , at first. it was mainly to help ME to feel what it felt like to have a horse that gave longitudinally to the bit. it helped me to deal with a large , strong thoroughbred who wanted to just run off, head up and hard on the bit, and helped ME develop the understanding of what I was shooting for, and could eventually ask with my OWN hands and legs, without the aid of the martingale. it was a very helpful tool and I would never 'dis' anyone using one.

but, I think for a horse that is laterally stiff, as in 'falling into the circle', you may create a hrose that just comes behind the bit falsely.


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

tinyliny said:


> for a horse that is falling into a circle becuase of inability to bend laterally, side reins / german martingale are not a solution.
> 
> I took lessons in a german martingale , at first. it was mainly to help ME to feel what it felt like to have a horse that gave longitudinally to the bit. it helped me to deal with a large , strong thoroughbred who wanted to just run off, head up and hard on the bit, and helped ME develop the understanding of what I was shooting for, and could eventually ask with my OWN hands and legs, without the aid of the martingale. it was a very helpful tool and I would never 'dis' anyone using one.
> 
> but, I think for a horse that is laterally stiff, as in 'falling into the circle', you may create a hrose that just comes behind the bit falsely.


I don't think anyone really said it did? 

Inside leg to outside rein.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Rainaisabelle said:


> I don't think anyone really said it did?
> 
> Inside leg to outside rein.


This is exactly what a spiral teaches.....


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

greentree said:


> This is exactly what a spiral teaches.....


Yes I know... I'm replying to the 'German martingale and side reins' part of tinys post.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

greentree said:


> This is exactly what a spiral teaches.....


I've always said how much my mare sounds like Kodak, further along but same personality/issues (she is a restart project). She is definitely at the point of learning the inside leg/outside rein concept, doesn't have it down and doesn't like contact or moving into the bridle properly.

I did spirals for the first time today. Outside leg and inside rein lol. She didn't really get the tiny circle concept, as we've been doing LOTS and LOTS of big circles and no little ones since restarting her. I definitely go with "less is more" and riding quietly and letting her figure it out.

By the time we did a simple spiral in then spiral out in each direction (and nothing more) she was nicely bent, inside leg to outside rein, stepping under with the inside hind and pushing up into a steady light contact. Beautiful! I will definitely be doing much more of that.

And, that's with my nice round circle becoming horribly egg shaped XD!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

I did lots of spirals, circles, figure 8's and serpentines with Kodak tonight. Did some turns on the forehand and lots of bending at the neck. I can't say she was great at all of it, but we did get to a point where I could get her turning without using my reins, just seat and legs. She did the spirals well enough, right down to the small circles, but I can't say she was bending easily. I think we just need lots and lots of practice. She is stiff and drifts in both directions so I have to keep all my aids working to keep her going in the direction I want. Still, I feel it was a good exercise and will do lots more. I think she just needs time to supple and stretch those muscles.

I did keep reminding myself that this is the horse that initially spooked at everything, would not trot, threw her head up in the air, and was mentally all over the place. We've overcome those issues to a large extent in a little over four months. We're starting to communicate and she's trying to cooperate. Sometimes she gawks a little too much and loses focus and sometimes she doesn't respond to my leg pushing her over (usually because she's lost focus and is paying attention to what's on the other side of the paddock instead of me). But she's coming along.

Oh, and I thought of your pyramid while riding her tonight Yogiwick. We had a great trotting rhythm. For maybe the first time, I felt like she was maintaining her rhythm without slowing down or accelerating and we were in sync for a bit.


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## Jan1975 (Sep 7, 2015)

I'm glad you pointed out how far she's come--and for her to do that without any professional training is fantastic! You should give yourself a pat on the back. Imagine where you'll be in another few months!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Acadianartist said:


> I did lots of spirals, circles, figure 8's and serpentines with Kodak tonight. Did some turns on the forehand and lots of bending at the neck. I can't say she was great at all of it, but we did get to a point where I could get her turning without using my reins, just seat and legs. She did the spirals well enough, right down to the small circles, but I can't say she was bending easily. I think we just need lots and lots of practice. She is stiff and drifts in both directions so I have to keep all my aids working to keep her going in the direction I want. Still, I feel it was a good exercise and will do lots more. I think she just needs time to supple and stretch those muscles.
> 
> I did keep reminding myself that this is the horse that initially spooked at everything, would not trot, threw her head up in the air, and was mentally all over the place. We've overcome those issues to a large extent in a little over four months. We're starting to communicate and she's trying to cooperate. Sometimes she gawks a little too much and loses focus and sometimes she doesn't respond to my leg pushing her over (usually because she's lost focus and is paying attention to what's on the other side of the paddock instead of me). But she's coming along.
> 
> Oh, and I thought of your pyramid while riding her tonight Yogiwick. We had a great trotting rhythm. For maybe the first time, I felt like she was maintaining her rhythm without slowing down or accelerating and we were in sync for a bit.


Not "my" pyramid, just a dressage pyramid lol.

I think it's very easy to say "well of course my horse has rhythm" without actually knowing what it means. It's so easy to think in the moment without realizing as you adapt to slight changes, and those slight changes add up, then you try to build off of it. You can spend years just perfecting a "stepping stone"

I like this explanation of the pyramid:
Dressage is Simple : Collection in Six Steps - Writing of Riding

Keep in mind that some of your issues are training, and others are simply physical (stretching, stiffness). My mare has taken to bulging in on the long side in a certain spot (not a "spooky" spot so not sure WHY lol). After correcting it a few times I've just let her do it then take my inside leg and lift it up and bump (not kick but sort of a "thud thud" obvious thing) her back over, not mean, but clear cut and uncomfortable. That's what I mean by "letting her make mistakes". Don't over ride, let them think it out. I've been trying to consciously do that with Poppy and definitely see the results.

I'm so glad you had such a good ride!! Keep it up, and just like you already are in another few months you'll be looking back saying "well that USED to be an issue but it feels like forever ago!". You've come so far already...I should send my girl to you lol.

If she's genuinely stiff/hard to bend then keep that in mind when warming up.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Jan1975 said:


> I'm glad you pointed out how far she's come--and for her to do that without any professional training is fantastic! You should give yourself a pat on the back. Imagine where you'll be in another few months!


Thanks Jan1975 - but I want to point out that I DID work with a trainer for 6 weeks on desensitization. I was in way over my head on that one so I knew I needed help and my trimmer knew this trainer who is really good with nervous horses. It was very much worth the investment!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Yogiwick said:


> Not "my" pyramid, just a dressage pyramid lol.
> 
> I think it's very easy to say "well of course my horse has rhythm" without actually knowing what it means. It's so easy to think in the moment without realizing as you adapt to slight changes, and those slight changes add up, then you try to build off of it. You can spend years just perfecting a "stepping stone"
> 
> ...


Thanks for that description of the "bumping" Yogiwick. I did that a couple of times last night when Kodak was ignoring the pressure from my legs, but it helps to get a specific description of how you do it. 

I don't think I deserve any credit for bringing Kodak along... all it really took was patience and kindness. She needed to feel safe. The trainer did a great job with her and now I just have to continue to work with her so we can keep progressing together. I'm not a very good rider though, so it's as much me who needs work as her. As patient as I've been with her, she's been equally patient with me!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

And because riding should also be fun, and not just drills all the time, we did a lovely trail ride this morning! When I took Kodak away from her hay, leaving Harley behind, she wasn't very happy about it. But I had a surprise in store for her. We rode to the back of the property, over a big hill, and did some exploring in new territory. She was brave and never balked at crossing water, going through thick brush, up and down steep hills. I could not have done all that on Harley so this is where she really shines. I took her down to a large, lush green field I knew about. It was the perfect, still, fall morning to do so. I hopped off her, took her bridle on (she was wearing her rope halter underneath) and let her happily eat grass for a good 15-20 minutes. I wish I had brought my camera because it was such a perfect morning and the colours in the trees are just glorious. The trails are paved with red and yellow leaves that crunch when you walk on them.

I want to go back there with my sketchbook and maybe my paint at some point because it's a perfect spot for her to graze and for me to draw or paint. I'm pretty sure I could have dropped the lead rope and she would have just eaten around herself for as long as I let her (I didn't though). I notice she doesn't move much when I do this... just eats a circle around herself, LOL. I think it's from her previous ground tying training. 

We rode home very happily and I gave her lots of praise for being so good on the trail. I wanted to show her that there is something in it for her too. While we might not go eat grass everytime we ride, every once in a while, I think it's good for her to get a special treat away from the barn so she continues to be such a good sport about going on new trails.


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## Jan1975 (Sep 7, 2015)

Acadianartist said:


> Thanks Jan1975 - but I want to point out that I DID work with a trainer for 6 weeks on desensitization. I was in way over my head on that one so I knew I needed help and my trimmer knew this trainer who is really good with nervous horses. It was very much worth the investment!


Yes, but that is not the same as having her ridden by a professional several days a week. I consider that more like lessons! You have done most of the work and you should be proud. Glad you had a nice trail ride!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Jan1975 said:


> Yes, but that is not the same as having her ridden by a professional several days a week. I consider that more like lessons! You have done most of the work and you should be proud. Glad you had a nice trail ride!


Good point Jan and I appreciate the pat on the back. But I wanted to make sure that anyone reading this who has issues to work out with their horse is aware that bringing in a trainer is always a good decision! It doesn't have to cost a fortune - mine only charges 40$ per session. I was happy to pay it so she was the one holding a terrified horse while shaking a plastic bag at her! It is especially important when there is a safety issue like Kodak's spooking, but even for other things, bringing in someone who knows what they're doing really accelerates the learning curve! Same goes for riding. 

Btw, on our trail ride we encountered a plastic bag (gasp!). Kodak ignored it. Mind you, it was not windy. But just to be safe, I went out and retrieved it. I may be more confident, but I don't have a death wish.


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

Just for fun, here is a link to some books on Amazon (I think they ship to Canada). I have the "101 Dressage Exercises" and love it. There are very basic exercises (the ones I do) as well as intermediate to advanced. There are a lot of patterns to break the boredom of just circles. I don't know what exercises the others contain, but the "101 Arena Exercises" looks interesting.


https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...+horse+and+rider&sprefix=101+dressage,aps,290


You are doing so well! I am just now, this year, working on riding back to front more successfully.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Yeah not something I've ever really done too much, but I found this girl really responds well too it, she is either overly sensitive or overly desensitized lol, I'm really trying to promote HER learning as opposed to me teaching atm..if that makes sense. I still don't do it a lot but am definitely using it more at times when I want to make a point. If I give a good kick she will react as opposed to thinking. I'll still kick as needed but try to stay away from it.

And what did I say? That there was a great little horse in there and that you guys would bond really well and be a great team? And that that kind is the best kind? And that she just needed time and love more then anything? XD


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Whinnie said:


> Just for fun, here is a link to some books on Amazon (I think they ship to Canada). I have the "101 Dressage Exercises" and love it. There are very basic exercises (the ones I do) as well as intermediate to advanced. There are a lot of patterns to break the boredom of just circles. I don't know what exercises the others contain, but the "101 Arena Exercises" looks interesting.
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...+horse+and+rider&sprefix=101+dressage,aps,290
> ...


I already have the 101 Arena Exercises... guess I should dust if off and use it!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Yogiwick said:


> Yeah not something I've ever really done too much, but I found this girl really responds well too it, she is either overly sensitive or overly desensitized lol, I'm really trying to promote HER learning as opposed to me teaching atm..if that makes sense. I still don't do it a lot but am definitely using it more at times when I want to make a point. If I give a good kick she will react as opposed to thinking. I'll still kick as needed but try to stay away from it.
> 
> And what did I say? That there was a great little horse in there and that you guys would bond really well and be a great team? And that that kind is the best kind? And that she just needed time and love more then anything? XD


Yes, well we still have good days and not-so-good days. We're still not entirely sure we're in love with each other, but it's getting there  I sometimes envy my daughter who gets to ride Harley, but I have no regrets in my decision to work with Kodak. While I don't recommend it to everyone, working with her has allowed me to learn so much, push my limits and realize that I can do this. It's made me more confident and given me a great deal of knowledge that I didn't have before. I now feel I can overcome issues. So yes, I'm glad I didn't just give up and sell her after she sent me flying twice. Then I never would have learned all of this and bonded with her the way I have. That said, it's not all rainbows and unicorns... but I'll take a few little spooks and some stiffness in return for a brave horse that would never hurt me intentionally and tries so hard to work with me, even when I'm clumsy.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Acadianartist said:


> And because riding should also be fun, and not just drills all the time, we did a lovely trail ride this morning! When I took Kodak away from her hay, leaving Harley behind, she wasn't very happy about it. But I had a surprise in store for her. We rode to the back of the property, over a big hill, and did some exploring in new territory. She was brave and never balked at crossing water, going through thick brush, up and down steep hills. I could not have done all that on Harley so this is where she really shines. I took her down to a large, lush green field I knew about. It was the perfect, still, fall morning to do so. I hopped off her, took her bridle on (she was wearing her rope halter underneath) and let her happily eat grass for a good 15-20 minutes. I wish I had brought my camera because it was such a perfect morning and the colours in the trees are just glorious. The trails are paved with red and yellow leaves that crunch when you walk on them.
> 
> I want to go back there with my sketchbook and maybe my paint at some point because it's a perfect spot for her to graze and for me to draw or paint. I'm pretty sure I could have dropped the lead rope and she would have just eaten around herself for as long as I let her (I didn't though). I notice she doesn't move much when I do this... just eats a circle around herself, LOL. I think it's from her previous ground tying training.
> 
> We rode home very happily and I gave her lots of praise for being so good on the trail. I wanted to show her that there is something in it for her too. While we might not go eat grass everytime we ride, every once in a while, I think it's good for her to get a special treat away from the barn so she continues to be such a good sport about going on new trails.



that sounds like such a nice ride. when I have a ride that I'm pretty sure my horse enjoyed as well as I did, then I have a great sense of satisfaction. and I do think it carries forward to a sense of wellbeing that the horse starts to associate with being with YOU.

oh, btw, I did not know that you'd been bucked off this horse , twice.

and, when are you going to share some of your artwork with us!?


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Tiny, the OP came off when the mare spooked when she first got her. Maybe all the same to some but to me there's a _HUGE_ difference between a person falling off when a horse jumps sideways and a horse broncing someone off, so just wanted to mention that . I have complete faith in a horse that I know will never hurt me intentionally. I always say I trust my green Arab more then any of my well trained horses because he cares about me, and while I have a good bond with the others at the end of the day they are horses and I am a human. I've seen horses go crazy and buck people off to get them off, or worse, hurt them, it's pretty scary. I don't believe this mare has ever bucked or done anything dangerous for/towards the OP. Just sometimes you go in different directions, as we all know XD!

I agree though, where is this artwork?!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Yes tinyliny, as Yogiwick points out, I came off her twice when she had explosive spooks. This was within a couple of weeks of getting her so we were still getting to know each other. I thought she was bombproof, but it turned out she required some serious desensitization. She is a worry-wart, but is much, much better now. 

They were pretty hard falls though, because she would drop down, then blow into a full gallop. At no point has she ever showed me she was intentionally trying to get me off, she was just terrified all the time for the first few weeks. She has never, ever, tried to bite, kick, or run me over. If she spooks on the ground, it's always in a direction opposite to me. So Yogiwick is right that this isn't a case of a horse being uncooperative and wanting to get out of working, it was just a case of a frightened horse who had had some bad experiences. 

The artwork will come eventually  Probably just some sketches for a while. Very little time to paint and ride these days. But I liked just letting her graze for a bit while I took in the scenery so I think I'll do it again. There are some round bales in the area I'd love to paint with just a dusting of snow on them...


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Just wanted to update to say Kodak and I are continuing to progress nicely. We did a lot of spirals and I think they helped. I also thumped her with my leg on the shoulder when she was drifting and wasn't responding to me pushing with my leg. She is really starting to "get" it. The beauty of this mare is that she really tries and once she figures out what you want, she gets it every time. 

We are now trotting circles in a nice rhythm, trotting over poles and I feel she's bending more easily all the time. We are becoming smoother and her walk/trot transitions are amazing - both ways! I just apply slight pressure and she trots immediately (this horse would NOT trot initially - just launch into a canter every time!) and I hum to her and she walks. Instantly. 

I started doing the 101 Arena exercises, but honestly, after I get through all the posture check lists, I feel I've lost the natural contact I have with Kodak. Have any of you had that experience? You're feeling like things are going well, then all of a sudden, you think heels down, shoulders back, elbows bent, legs under you, hips aligned with your heel... and you get so wrapped up in getting the details right that you kind of lose the big picture, all the while feeling completely unnatural? 

I haven't been able to get the coach out and she probably won't be able to come out anytime soon, so I have to struggle alone. I do want my position to be somewhat correct, but not show correct. So I've decided to go with the flow (and keep the flow going) but work on correcting my posture incrementally. Right now, I feel my legs are still a little forward so I'm focusing on opening them up a bit more while still trying to keep everything else more or less correct. 

So I'd like to do more cantering with her - I've cantered her lots of times, but she's kind of off-balance at the canter. I think it's just lack of practice. We are maintaining a good enough rhythm at the trot that I can focus on my position, but when she canters, I kind of lose it again. Should I just do lots and lots of trotting until I feel we've really mastered it and my position is good and balanced? Then maybe canter in a circle to encourage her to collect rather than tearing around the paddock unbalanced? She actually stumbled today after cantering around a couple of times and was clearly off, which I am attributing to my poor posture at the canter. What is the best way to improve my posture so I am more steady at the canter? Two-point, posting or sitting trot? 

I also started a pilates class to improve my core muscles. I went to the first class and it felt like my stomach, butt and pectoral muscles were really working hard! I think it's going to make a huge difference.


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

I have the same issues you do and I have been working much longer at it, so you are doing great! I get frustrated that I "used" to be able to ride better and I "used" to know this stuff, but have a hard time putting everything together and not think about each detail. What I can recall is a friend, so many years ago, advising me that I should approach a ride with one goal, like just work on seat, or just work on hands, etc. Not meaning everything else should be ignored, but that you are deliberately aware of the issue you are working on. It works for me now, because I guess I am not a very good multi tasker. Age, weight gain and absence from horses for a long time have taken their toll. I have recently spent a lot of time on my seat and leg position, not worrying about contact so much, using loose rein so I don't bump, not worrying about how ROUND my circles are, and it is paying off for me. I feel so much more secure now, I don't have to keep thinking about "relax lower back, legs back and under you, weight in heels, thighs, seat bones" etc. I am doing it without thinking so much. I will do the same as I move up to hands, squeezing for give, elastic elbow, moving with rhythm, shoulders back, etc (I know I am leaving things out). It is working for me. 


I don't think you have to be perfect in a gait to practice a little bit at another. I wish I was progressing like you are!


To think that people assume riding is so easy because all you have to do is sit there and the horse does all the work!


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

@Acadianartist - if Kodak is feeling unbalanced at the lope in the circle, there's a very good possibility that she's on the wrong lead. Just drop her back into the trot until she's balanced, make sure her inside shoulder is up, then ask again.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Change said:


> @Acadianartist - if Kodak is feeling unbalanced at the lope in the circle, there's a very good possibility that she's on the wrong lead. Just drop her back into the trot until she's balanced, make sure her inside shoulder is up, then ask again.


Good point! Will try to check her lead next time.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Whinnie said:


> I have the same issues you do and I have been working much longer at it, so you are doing great! I get frustrated that I "used" to be able to ride better and I "used" to know this stuff, but have a hard time putting everything together and not think about each detail. What I can recall is a friend, so many years ago, advising me that I should approach a ride with one goal, like just work on seat, or just work on hands, etc. Not meaning everything else should be ignored, but that you are deliberately aware of the issue you are working on. It works for me now, because I guess I am not a very good multi tasker. Age, weight gain and absence from horses for a long time have taken their toll. I have recently spent a lot of time on my seat and leg position, not worrying about contact so much, using loose rein so I don't bump, not worrying about how ROUND my circles are, and it is paying off for me. I feel so much more secure now, I don't have to keep thinking about "relax lower back, legs back and under you, weight in heels, thighs, seat bones" etc. I am doing it without thinking so much. I will do the same as I move up to hands, squeezing for give, elastic elbow, moving with rhythm, shoulders back, etc (I know I am leaving things out). It is working for me.
> 
> 
> I don't think you have to be perfect in a gait to practice a little bit at another. I wish I was progressing like you are!
> ...


I hear you! And I'm not progressing THAT quickly! As much as I'd like to have my coach come, I dread hearing her scream at me that my legs/hands/shoulders/eyes/etc. etc. are wrong! She can be pretty brutal. So I think your idea of focusing on one thing at a time is the best way to do it. I'm trying really hard to keep my shoulders and legs back right now, because I know those are two of my biggest weaknesses. I "think" I'm doing ok, but I probably look horrible from the ground! 

When I had a trainer work on desensitizing Kodak, she also worked with me on Kodak's back so coached me a little while I was riding. She practiced "centered" riding and while not everything she told me to do was effective or useful for me, I've come to appreciate the importance of communication. Regardless of how pretty my legs or hands look, if I don't feel a connection to Kodak, it's useless to me. Kodak wants to do what I ask, but she needs to understand what I'm asking to act on it. I feel I'm getting that connection more and more and I don't want to lose it. 

I'm also reading some books on riding and learning solo and one of the things they emphasize is that you begin to "feel" when things are right. For someone like me who will never show, that's more important than how I look. Don't get me wrong, I want to have a good, balanced seat for my sake and for Kodak's. But, for example, Kodak prefers to ride with little contact. My coach, who trains hunter/jumper riders, is big on full contact. I don't think I need full contact and Kodak doesn't like me being "in her face" so this isn't really something I feel I need to fix. I'm constantly readjusting my reins as we transition to different gaits, but hold them softly enough that when she snorts (which she does every time, when she starts to relax), she can pull the reins out of my hands and I'm not jerking her mouth. But I also hold them short enough to correct her when necessary. These are the sorts of adjustments I feel work for us, even if they might not be considered correct in the show ring. 

This is why I "felt" her canter was unbalanced and attributed it to her being out of practice cantering with a rider on her back. But as Change points out, maybe she was just on the wrong lead. I'll have to check next time. Harley does auto leads so we never had to worry about it with him.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

@Acadianartist I think, from what I read only of the last couple of your posts (sorry, I have not read the whole thread), that you are starting to really get with your horse, and when you 'get with your horse', she is starting to get with you. 
and when you start thinking about YOU and your position, you leave your horse, and lo and behold, she leaves you!

I hear that you are riding with a kind of staying in the present and working in a dynamic connection with the horse, through rein and leg, that adapts to the horse. that's getting with your horse.

as things get better, little by little, you start asking the horse to get more with you, like accept occasional contact, slow down from your seat, speed up with your breath, look and go in the direction you indicate wiht your rein, etc.

it's a wonderful process. don't worry so much about position and exersizes that you leave that place in the present, becuase that's where you horse LIVES.


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

Also - forgot to suggest....

With your canter departures, are you looking at your horse, or where you want your horse to be? Always try to keep your head up and eyes forward. If you look where you are going, you will develop better 'feel' and your body will transmit direction to your horse more naturally.

Try to do serpentines with no rein contact at a walk just by looking into the turn and shifting your hips to indicate direction. If you don't get response, follow with leg, then lift the rein, then ask with rein. Pretty soon your eye/hip shift will have her turning. Next work on circles with eyes on where you want to be instead of where you are. Those cues will transfer into trot and canter with practice.


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