# English pleasure success? Sorta? (Harley)



## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Forgot the costume class... there was a head piece with this poodle costume, but it kept falling over his eyes, so I removed it for safety purposes. I did plop it on at the end for some pictures, but don't have one of those, sadly. Regardless, the costume was a big hit!


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## k9kenai (Jul 1, 2017)

Congrats to your daughter and Harley! 

And that costume is the cutest. I love the ear pieces and the tail!


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Congratulations to your daughter for her hard work which proves it pays off.
A nice day of accomplishment...
Puff out that chest with pride mom..._proud moment yes indeed!_
:runninghorse2:....


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

Yeah!!! what a great post!


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

I swear, it's like every single child on this planet is a better rider than me...
Just kidding, congratulations to all three of you, the lovely horse included


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Acadianartist said:


> But mostly, I think they have progressed so much because she rode him every single day after that show.


Congrats!!! And yes, put in the work and reap the rewards. ;-) Glad to hear she had a good show.




Acadianartist said:


> Well, we switched to a snaffle with a full cheek piece, so it's not a harsh bit, but my daughter has a bit more leverage.


A snaffle bit doesn't give you any leverage......

Obviously if that bit works better, by all means.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Congratulations on a successful day~


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

beau159 said:


> Congrats!!! And yes, put in the work and reap the rewards. ;-) Glad to hear she had a good show.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not the snaffle part, the full cheek piece part. I read online that it provides more leverage, but I'm not sure about that (not everything that's online is accurate, obviously). Either way, it works. The coach noticed a difference too. But I think it's the combination of a new bit + a few new techniques for my daughter to use that have produced this result. It was like he'd become dull to her cues before, and switching things up got his attention back on her. And, of course, riding every day helped tremendously! She just needed the motivation to push through, and that last show gave it to her. She's pretty competitive when challenged, but if she doesn't perceive something as a challenge, will get lazy. Human nature I suppose. She worked hard on that canter - and may have been so focused on it, that she messed up other things. But that's ok, it's just more motivation to pull it all together next time!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Horsef said:


> I swear, it's like every single child on this planet is a better rider than me...
> Just kidding, congratulations to all three of you, the lovely horse included


I'm sure that's not true, but if it makes you feel any better, she's a far better rider than I ever was, or ever will be! She has been taking lessons for 6 years now. And kids do pick things up so quickly! I wish I had had the opportunity to do what she does, but at least I can live vicariously through her. 

The night before the show, we left Harley at the coach's barn. That's where the show was, and we'd trailered in for one last lesson, so when the coach said we might as well leave him there, we jumped on the chance (he doesn't like being trailered). So we spent most of the day there, getting him cleaned up. A lot of other riders were there, along with some parents, doing the same thing, and since we know most of them, it was like being part of the barn family. As I was helping my daughter braid that night, it occurred to me that someday, maybe, I won't have anyone to do show prep with! As much as I find shows exhausting, this is a really special time I am spending with my daughter and her horse. I'm very grateful that she has chosen to ride, and that I get to do this with her!


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## avjudge (Feb 1, 2011)

Acadianartist said:


> Not the snaffle part, the full cheek piece part. I read online that it provides more leverage, but I'm not sure about that (not everything that's online is accurate, obviously). Either way, it works.


I noticed you said this before in your previous thread, and was waiting for someone who knows more than I to post a correction, but based on the mechanics, no, the full cheek can't provide leverage. 

But of course it will feel different on Harley - and maybe the mouthpiece is different, possibly quite subtly - and as you say, it works, so obviously Harley likes something about it better!


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Acadianartist said:


> Not the snaffle part, the full cheek piece part. I read online that it provides more leverage, but I'm not sure about that (not everything that's online is accurate, obviously).


Leverage on what? 

Leverage, in terms of bits, means that when you put 1 ounce of pressure on the reins with your hands that the bit is going to *magnify that pressure* by a certain amount. Smaller leverage bits with short shanks might barely double it to 2 ounces of pressure. Very large bits with very large shanks could increase it to 8 ounces of pressure or more.

That is what leverage means. The same way that you would use a crowbar to pry on something. Or a cheater bar to help you get lug nuts loose on a tire. That's leverage. It magnifies the force you are applying.










For example, if you have a leverage bit that has a ratio of 2:1 it means that it will double whatever pressure you apply to the reins. It also means that your shank length is twice as long as the purchase. Of course, there are further differences in how straight or angled the shank is, the type of mouthpiece the bit has, etc, that will also effect how quickly the bit engages and how exactly it magnifies your rein cue.

Bigger bits aren't always a "bad" thing. This is why you do see highly trained horses going along in big long-shanked bits. The rider may only have to adjust their pinky finger on the reins to create a magnified signal that the horse can "hear" with the bit and adjust too --- and you didn't notice the rider do a thing. Larger bits do allow you to be more subtle with your cues because of how they magnify the cue. (And then of course, there are people that use bigger bits because they can't control their horse ..... which of course if the wrong reason to go to such a bit.)

*A snaffle bit does not have any leverage. *There is no shank that is going to magnify the pressure. If you put 1 ounce of pressure on the reins, then the horse is going to feel 1 ounce of pressure on the bit. The rein is attached directly to the ring on the horse's mouth. It's a 1:1 ratio essentially. With that said, there are curb bits out there that have 1:1 ratios as well if that purchase is the same length as the shank. Of course, it is still going to be applying different cues (such as poll pressure) than a basic snaffle is, so it is still cueing your horse in different ways, even though it may not be directly magnifying the pressure in a certain ratio.

Now of course the full cheek may help your daughter when she is direct reining Harley because if she adds pressure to the left rein, it is going to carry "through" the bit to the other side and "push" on the right side of his mouth with that full cheek piece, to help guide him to the left direct rein. But again .... it's not leverage. Rather, just a different bit mechanic. 

And you're right -- don't always believe what you read on the internet.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Great update, and a reward for your daughter's hard work and commitment !

Glad that the full cheek snaffle helped.
Just a clarification, far as the full cheek snaffle. Beau is correct that it does not give any leverage.
What it does, above a plain D ring or O ring snaffle is two things:

When it is used western, no cavasson or noseband, it serves the same purpose as that non functioning chin strap, used to prevent the accidental pulling of the bit into the mouth.

Far as when direct reining, in any bridle, it will apply some pressure to the opposite cheek from the one that the rein is engaged on, giving both a bit more 'control' and also clearer signal


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

They are adorable! Congrats on a great show.

I understand what you mean about leverage. For the rider, it can be much easier to turn the horse because the pressure is distributed along the full cheek piece on the opposite side of the direct rein pull. So if you pull on the right rein, instead of just pushing on a small area around the left side of the mouth, it applies pressure on a larger area. This can translate to the horse responding more to less rein pressure. 

But also, if you were using an O ring before, sometimes having the more stable mouthpiece that doesn't slide on the O rings will cause the horse to respond better/with less pressure. So while "leverage" isn't the most accurate term, the rider does influence the horse more easily. It translates to less pressure from the rider which feels like better leverage.

Some trainers such as John Lyons believe full cheek snaffles give clearer signals to the horse than other snaffles.

FYI, it is recommended to use bit keepers when using a full cheek snaffle for safety. Horses can get the top part of the full cheek caught on things when rubbing their heads, etc, which can cause accidents.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Thanks all. @*Beau* , I do understand the concept of leverage. Which is why I questioned the article I read that stated there was leverage with this bit. Since the reins attach to the middle, not the bottom, like a curb bit (and yes, I'm familiar with those too), it didn't make sense to me. Some say it applies leverage to the poll. Some disagree with this. It may exert a slight pressure with the keepers on, since pulling on the reins *might* tend to flatten the angle of the cheek piece, which might cause a small amount of pull on the side piece of the bridle. But I think it would be negligible. I do think that the side pressure is the most logical explanation of why it is more effective. Not sure why it is helping to control his speed, but I'm guessing maybe it just feels different to Harley, so it got his attention. He was having trouble bending to the right too, so perhaps this is helping keep his head in a better position. 

@*gottatrot* - I have already located a tack store which sells the keepers and will be picking some up tomorrow! I knew nothing about this bit, other than having seen it in one of the horses my daughter rides at her lesson barn. I actually bought it at a yard sale for 5$! We wanted to try some new bits on Harley to see if we could find something that worked better so I figured it wouldn't hurt for that amount of money. I could see it was a regular snaffle, but with cheek pieces, so I knew it wouldn't be a harsh bit. When I showed to our coach, she said we should get some keepers for it, but should definitely keep using it, because Harley is much better in it. Apparently for some sanctioned shows, the keepers are even mandatory. They're very cheap, so I will get a couple of sets.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

^A yard sale?! What a lucky find~


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Zexious said:


> ^A yard sale?! What a lucky find~


Yes, that was a funny story. It was Friday night and my husband and son were away at a football tournament so it was just me and my daughter. We decided to have a movie night, so I went to the convenience store down the road to get snacks (and some mommy juice). Came back with a brand new, still in the bag Dr. Cook bitless bridle, and this bit. Probably just as well hubby wasn't there, because he would never have let me live that one down. A neighbor with some horses was having a yard sale, so when I drove by, I figured I'd better stop in on my way back. Sure enough, she had the bitless bridle I'd been thinking of buying for months (for Kodak, my mare, who loves it btw), and this bit. Good deals were had on both. Although it was a little more expensive than wine and chips, it was a very lucky fluke!


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## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

Yassss congrats on your daughter's hard work paying off! It's so nice to see really good improvement isn't it? : )

-- Kai


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

WOOHOO!!! FIRST PLACE in FOUR CLASSES!!! 

:loveshower::loveshower::loveshower::loveshower:

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

You will need to add a disclaimer to the other thread; Change it to English Pleasure Fail...NOT


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## seabiscuit91 (Mar 30, 2017)

This is awesome!

Even better how it really shows her hard work pays off, considering all that riding between this and the last show!
Well done to her, and to you for only crying on the inside!!


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