# Should we heed a snake encounter on the road while riding?



## NeverSlapYourHorse (Aug 19, 2015)

Hello,I would like to learn if horses panic when they encounter or step on a snake on the trail. Thanks


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## Oreos Girl (May 24, 2011)

Most of the time, my horses ignore any snakes that they see. You want to try to watch the trail ahead to watch for snakes much like you would do if you were hiking.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Generally speaking, we don't have venomous snakes here, but garter snakes are plentiful. Riding along one day, my mare spotted a huge one slithering out of our neighbor's open barn door-and went flying sideways. To be honest, that reaction surprised me as she's so calm and cool about other things that a lot of horses find scary. The next few times we rode past the barn, she gave it a wide berth. 

I can't recall seeing snakes on other rides, so not sure what she'd do if/when we see one again.


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## Wimpy (Jul 9, 2013)

My experience is that horses don't pay much attention to a snake, but that's not saying that they will never react to one.

We don't have poisonous snakes where I live but I hate snakes with a passion. So, I usually react more to seeing a snake than my horse does!


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## NeverSlapYourHorse (Aug 19, 2015)

Thank you all. I understand that it depends a bit on the circumstances and the nature of the horse...


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

My experience has shown the horse does a lot better job of figuring out which snake to worry about and which not to. I have had horses pass sunbathing snakes across or beside the trail with never a hesitation.. but have once encountered a rattlesnake coiled and rattling, which caused the horse to stop in his tracks. Smart horse!


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## NeverSlapYourHorse (Aug 19, 2015)

Thanks, Phantomhorse13. They are really smart creatures. Hopefully, they don't drop us if they see a rattlesnake...


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## lvmyhorses (Dec 18, 2012)

*snakes*



phantomhorse13 said:


> My experience has shown the horse does a lot better job of figuring out which snake to worry about and which not to. I have had horses pass sunbathing snakes across or beside the trail with never a hesitation.. but have once encountered a rattlesnake coiled and rattling, which caused the horse to stop in his tracks. Smart horse!



This is what I've experience.... my quarter mare would just go down the trail even when a black racer slithered under her crossing the trail we were on. MY gaited mare hear the rattler even before I heard it and stopped dead. We carefully reversed back about 10 feet before going back the way we came. I never saw or actually heard the rattler, but I figured it was some where in front of us and relied on her doing what was best. We were warned before we rode out that morning that the snakes (rattlers) more than likely would be out sunbathing. :icon_rolleyes:


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

I was driving my horse to the arena, she had always done this for years and I have never had a. Problem. She would not go through the gate and kept wanting to spin and go back to the barn. Out of concern for a wreck and safety I unhitched her and tried to line drive her through the gate. With it being safer we fought by I eventually got her into the arena. Upon looking I saw a dead bright green snake at the gate. Removed the snake and never had a problem since


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Depends on the horse. Some will just go right on by a snake, whether sunning or coiled and ready to strike. Other horses will smell or hear them and be very cautious.

My Mustang is that way, if he stops on the trail and is eyeballing a brush or a hole, you can bet there's a snake in there.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I've never had a horse react to a snake one way or the other. They don't even seem to notice them.

But I've had them spook at squirrels, rabbits and crows. :icon_rolleyes:


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## NeverSlapYourHorse (Aug 19, 2015)

Thank you all. I think it depends on the horse, snake, and location. Your info was important for me...


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

I have had horses refuse to go the direction of the snake. We have also found some pretty good size snake parts in the pasture, so it could have been squashed by a horse, dogs, or hawks ..


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## Slave2Ponies (May 25, 2013)

I once was buzzed by a rattlesnake on the trail. My horse had no reaction whatsoever....I, however, had a heart attack!


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## NeverSlapYourHorse (Aug 19, 2015)

I think it is not the style of dogs and hawks. Normally, dogs do not hunt and eat flesh and hawks would not leave the parts there as far as I know. It is probably a horse, a new think to learn for me.
Slave2Ponies: I hope you're ok now. Nice. 
I conclude that it really depends on the horse; it may be related with their past experiences. Thanks


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I have had a green horse bolt off with me when a snake started rattling right in front of us. She was really a bit too green to be out on the trail and I was a bit too green to know.

I have not had an incident of ending right on top of a rattler so that it coiled and rattled since that event that took place 40 years ago. I think the reason that we almost trampled over him and caused him to coil was become the mare and I were both so green.

My trail wise mature horses will stop and sniff if a snake is near the trail. They generally just cautiously walk around them once they determine where they are.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

NeverSlapYourHorse said:


> Normally, dogs do not hunt and eat flesh


 Dogs are carnivores. Ours have had quite a taste for squirrels, chippers and rabbits that have had the misfortune of getting into the yard.


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## NeverSlapYourHorse (Aug 19, 2015)

Celeste's just gave me a new insight. Then, I should inquire whether horses sniff the presence of danger. Then, they are likely to be mature to figure out the odor of snakes. Hmm, noted.
Dustbunny. Ethologically, I have observed many times that dogs refuse uncooked meat under normal conditions. I have so many experiences in this issue that I should believe dogs do not hunt, kill, blow apart, and eat others. They have been the most faithful friend of humans for 15 thousand years. They are no longer like wolves, their ancestors, which still have a lot to teach us. And they are the only creatures that can sacrifice their lives for their owners. You are lucky to have one. But considering that I've said "normally;" in my opinion, there is something different with your dog. We humans are hesitant when it comes to eat something without cooking. Some Christians distinguish man and animals in terms of manner of eating meat, whether cooked or uncooked. But you can never know. There is this guy called Bear Grylls (Grizzly Bear?) on TV who eats anything he finds in nature as sushi. Hmm, we must watch our pets…


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

Never Slap Your Horse, I think you have the answer to your snake question, so I'll go off topic and address the dog part of the comments. 

I think you will find that plenty of dogs will track, hunt, kill and eat prey animals. There are many others who will not. It boils down to breed and training. The hunting breeds retain the predator instinct in varying degrees and will act on it according to their training, or lack of it. Guardian breeds will sometimes kill animals they deem a threat to their charges. Those bred more as companion dogs behave more as you have described. Of course, there is a lot of overlap in this description.

It is very common for dogs who kill smaller animals to savage them rather than eat them. That could explain the chunks of snake mentioned in an earlier comment.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

NeverSlapYourHorse said:


> Dustbunny. Ethologically, I have observed many times that dogs refuse uncooked meat under normal conditions. I have so many experiences in this issue that I should believe dogs do not hunt, kill, blow apart, and eat others. They have been the most faithful friend of humans for 15 thousand years. They are no longer like wolves, their ancestors, which still have a lot to teach us. And they are the only creatures that can sacrifice their lives for their owners. You are lucky to have one. But considering that I've said "normally;" in my opinion, there is something different with your dog. We humans are hesitant when it comes to eat something without cooking. Some Christians distinguish man and animals in terms of manner of eating meat, whether cooked or uncooked. But you can never know. There is this guy called Bear Grylls (Grizzly Bear?) on TV who eats anything he finds in nature as sushi. Hmm, we must watch our pets…[/QUOTE
> 
> I cannot think of a dog I have had the pleasure of living with who would not grab a raw T-bone tossed to it and head out the door. Our most determined hunters and eaters have been a Dachshund (no surprise there) and a Papillion cross.
> I don't think my dogs are the exception. They all go back to a common ancestor, and often revert to some rather basic behaviors. Maybe I should clue them in to the fact that they are now living in a civilized society.


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## NeverSlapYourHorse (Aug 19, 2015)

You both are right. Of course, it depends on the breed and the individual, as well as training. I just mean that they are not (or no longer) predators. We can say wolves are predators and, as you mention, dogs are used to live in a civilized society, and cats have failed to do so. In my opinion, if a dog hunts and eats, it does so because it learns to do so, just like we do, while cats are always in search of prays. I believe dogs are psychologically more advanced and cats are not yet evolved enough. Please watch the following video; even the wolves have real potential of love.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hdUCzbCuYk


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

i have seen my dogs attack snakes. the do not eat them but they will tear them up.
I have seen a hawk leave part of its meal as the dogs chased the hawks.
My ranch dogs, go after rabbits and squirrels and eat them. They usually do not eat the entire critter, but I will see parts around and sometimes the entire critter is left , and I have to dispose of it.. usually they hide it, until it stinks to high heaven , and then bring it up to the house for me.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Many years ago, I was gallopping a gelding down a bush track when he suddenly got airborne, as if going over an oxer. I looked down instinctively and saw a striking tiger snake (one of the venomous snakes around here). That was really unusual - I've ridden in the Australian bush for over 30 years, and also I'm an avid bushwalker and mountain enthusiast (as is DH) and neither of us have ever had trouble with any snakes we have encountered, usually they just slither away. That was the one strike in over three decades, and from the snake's perspective, it was just minding its own business sunning itself on the track when a big hairy thundering thing startled it and nearly trod on it. What's a snake to do when caught in the crossfire like that?

Mostly our local snakes (and indeed most snakes) are really good at detecting oncoming vibrations and avoiding a confrontation that way, by leaving. I think that one didn't have enough notice for its metabolic capacities at the time. It was spring, and the snakes were just coming out of torpor, and then it can be hard for them to respond fast.

Anyway, the horse had the situation under control, and no harm done.

The farm we live on now has 50ha of nature reserve on it, including a swampy centrepiece teeming with tiger snakes and dugites. The sandy riding tracks I use for quick jaunts without hoof boots run around that area. I don't see snakes much in the heat of summer - they are peak active then and will withdraw quickly when they hear the hoof vibrations - but I see them around weekly in spring at the edges of tracks. You walk around them minding your own business, and everyone is happy.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Dogs are instinctively predatory animals. There hunting instinct is probably the main reason that humans domesticated them in the first place.

Of course dogs are capable of love. They can love humans, dogs, cats, or any species that they are socialized to as puppies. If a dog needs to learn as an adult that a particular species is part of "the pack", it takes a bit more training.

Some breeds of dogs have more of the hunting instinct than others. A sweet, loving, pet beagle will certainly chase a rabbit unless he has been trained otherwise. It is very difficult to train hunting bred dogs not to hunt. 

I have never seen a dog that would not eat meat, raw or otherwise. Meat is their natural food. 

While on the subject, I have never met a dog that would not happily take a nice roll in a big juicy pile of cow manure either. That includes well groomed poodles with pink toenails. I suspect that the instinct is present in dogs so that they can disguise their smell from their prey. 

They also will eat a nice big chunk of manure. Vitamins.

Dogs are dogs. Instinctive predators. _Canis lupus (subspecies) familiaris._

Wolves are very loving animals. They adore their pack mates. They do have to eat though.

Dogs are dogs and most of us love them like they are.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

So, has anyone actually had a venomous snake bite a horse?


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

NeverSlapYourHorse said:


> In my opinion, if a dog hunts and eats, it does so because it learns to do so, just like we do, while cats are always in search of prays. I believe dogs are psychologically more advanced and cats are not yet evolved enough.


I tend to think of it the other way- that the dogs/cats who don't hunt are like that because they have been taught not to. More effort is generally put into training dogs, and the average dog owner doesn't want their dog chasing after cats/squirrels/etc while out and about. From a young age they are kept on a leash and chastised for chasing after small animals and the instinct to hunt is not nurtured. Few people put the same effort into cats, though the average indoor house cat has little opportunity to hunt anyway and becomes fat and lazy ;-) 

Dogs on their own can and do hunt- just ask anyone who lives in the country and has had their chickens ravaged by their neighbors' (largely untrained) dogs that are allowed to roam freely. Well fed animals of either species are more likely to just 'play' with their kill rather than eat it.


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

gunslinger said:


> So, has anyone actually had a venomous snake bite a horse?


We had a horse that developed swelling and some heat in a rear fetlock. When we examined it, we found what appeared to be two small puncture wounds there. We soaked it with cold water, put linement on it and wrapped it. She was never lame. The heat went away, but that fetlock stayed slightly swollen for the many years we had her.


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## NeverSlapYourHorse (Aug 19, 2015)

I don’t know how to thank you all. First, I must tell that I’m a Turkish man with Asian origin and things seem to me much different in Asia Minor. What you all say are beyond the ordinary for me. The things for the horse and dog issues long settled in my mind are:
-	Dogs are never ever predators. If they are, they would kill me when they are hungry as opposed to cats that usually eat preys that are smaller than them. So, here we are all taught that dogs are nice and the only instinct they have is protection, save for the breeds trained for hunting. I recommend you to know the Kangal breed. In fact, in the times when they are lucky enough to survive from municipal exterminations, they are likely to die of hunger. They are still unable to hunt. I’ve visited many places in Eastern Europe, Asia, Russia, the Middle East, etc. The situation for them is all the same, destitution. They have to live in a society in which they have taken part for 15 thousand years as a member of it. Many activists and nonprofits here try to save them and feed them. Otherwise, they don’t have a chance to survive by finding food in any manner, regardless of their breed. In my life, I’ve never seen any of them hunting. I still find it difficult to believe that a dog can kill me if I encounter it in the treks in the country under normal conditions. Despite the tons of strength in their fangs, they even don’t know how to bite (except madness like rabies) and I mean this. However, I am always hesitant when it comes to wolves and bears. I don’t know what to do in the case of wolves if they are in a pack but I’ve gathered lots of information about bears. Bears seem to be easy to deal with. The incidents recorded here are second to none in the case of bears and wolves. So we have always realized that dogs mean “don’t come closer” when they bark. We try not to give them raw meat, which may be the reason for the conflict of ideas here. They also refuse raw fish at all times as far as I know.
-	About the snakes and horses; I’ve been given lots of good ideas here in this forum, while we were also thought simply that we shouldn’t worry about snakes on a horse; it would not panic at all.
So I am sorry about my allegations regarding dogs and hawks, which seem to be wrong. We are all easy to learn new thinks when it comes to nature.


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## cheyennemymare (Oct 8, 2014)

Well, it depends on what the snake is doing. Twister never reacts unless they're moving toward him or unless it's a rattler. Cheyenne absolutely FREAKS at any snake. She got chased by a black runner one day, and she's been afraid ever since. If it's sun bathing, she just watches it until we're past it. If it's moving, we usually have a buck then an uncontrollable gallop.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

NeverSlapYourHorse said:


> Bears seem to be easy to deal with..


 If you ever visit Glacier National Park in the state of Montana, please do some research on bears, specifically the Grizzly. "Easy" would not be found anywhere in the description of this animal. No, sir! 
Reading about your background makes it easier to understand your posts. Thank you for giving us some personal history.


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

gunslinger said:


> So, has anyone actually had a venomous snake bite a horse?


One of my endurance friends happened to be out in her pasture doing some maintenance when she noticed one gelding being overly interested in a patch of grass.. as she walked over to investigate, she watched in horror as a copperhead struck the gelding right on the nose.

His head started to swell up immediately, but she kept her head, ran to get a halter and got him into the barn, where she wound up cutting up a hose and then stuffed a couple lengths into his nose to keep his airway open while waiting for the vet. Vet came and gave a massive dose of an antihistamine and steroid and then is was a waiting game. Poor gelding had a fat head for a day or so but eventually recovered without incident.

Apparently, horses are big enough in proportion to the amount of venom injected that a snakebite (least in the US) doesn't kill a horse unless it happens to get its head and the swelling blocks the airway or happens to inject into an artery somehow, thus getting the venom directly into the bloodstream.. I would rather not test the accuracy of these claims!


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

NeverSlapYourHorse said:


> I don’t know how to thank you all. First, I must tell that I’m a Turkish man with Asian origin and things seem to me much different in Asia Minor. What you all say are beyond the ordinary for me. The things for the horse and dog issues long settled in my mind are:
> - Dogs are never ever predators. If they are, they would kill me when they are hungry as opposed to cats that usually eat preys that are smaller than them. So, here we are all taught that dogs are nice and the only instinct they have is protection, save for the breeds trained for hunting. I recommend you to know the Kangal breed. In fact, in the times when they are lucky enough to survive from municipal exterminations, they are likely to die of hunger. They are still unable to hunt. I’ve visited many places in Eastern Europe, Asia, Russia, the Middle East, etc. The situation for them is all the same, destitution. They have to live in a society in which they have taken part for 15 thousand years as a member of it. Many activists and nonprofits here try to save them and feed them. Otherwise, they don’t have a chance to survive by finding food in any manner, regardless of their breed. In my life, I’ve never seen any of them hunting. I still find it difficult to believe that a dog can kill me if I encounter it in the treks in the country under normal conditions. Despite the tons of strength in their fangs, they even don’t know how to bite (except madness like rabies) and I mean this. However, I am always hesitant when it comes to wolves and bears. I don’t know what to do in the case of wolves if they are in a pack but I’ve gathered lots of information about bears. Bears seem to be easy to deal with. The incidents recorded here are second to none in the case of bears and wolves. So we have always realized that dogs mean “don’t come closer” when they bark. We try not to give them raw meat, which may be the reason for the conflict of ideas here. They also refuse raw fish at all times as far as I know.
> - About the snakes and horses; I’ve been given lots of good ideas here in this forum, while we were also thought simply that we shouldn’t worry about snakes on a horse; it would not panic at all.
> So I am sorry about my allegations regarding dogs and hawks, which seem to be wrong. We are all easy to learn new thinks when it comes to nature.


Please don't be sorry for describing things as you have learned them. You have also offered us Westerners a glimpse into how things are seen in your part of the world. Your description of dogs in Turkey resembles what I have observed in the Philippines. There, a dog that shows the least bit of aggression toward livestock or children is quickly killed. This has the effect of selective breeding for less aggressive dogs. Most of the free roaming dogs I've seen there seem to be very good at scavenging. 

At your suggestion, I looked up the Kangal dog. A very noble breed it seems. I hope that there are shepherds in Turkey who still use them to guard their flocks.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

gunslinger said:


> So, has anyone actually had a venomous snake bite a horse?


Yes, about ten years ago, in a rural area just NW of Bowling Green, KY

My friends couldn't find their son's expensive QH mare. After starting at the barn area and working their way back on 20+ acres that wasn't bush hogged, they found her dead in the far corner of the back pasture right at the edge of the woods. 

She had been bitten on the nose, by a rattlesnake, while grazing.

She suffocated because horses cannot breath with their mouth open.

I grew up in Mississauga Swamp rattler country (eastern Ohio) and did a lot of trail riding in the Allegheny National Forest, where there are Timber Rattlers.

We used to carry 1/2" dia. garden hose cut to about 12", slathered in Vaseline, in case a horse got bit on the face. Inserting the pieces of hose carefully into the horse's nostrils allowed the passage ways to stay open so the horse could breath.

That was then and what I would still do today if I were riding.

The advent of cell phones helps tremendously to call for help. As long as the phone can get a signal.


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## NeverSlapYourHorse (Aug 19, 2015)

Nice comment, Dustbunny. Thanks. Regarding bears. Let me share with you what I have recently discovered. I actually gather info about the bear issue and I think it’s built up so much in my mind that I am ready to start to write an article. In addition to many things to do, already known, I was recently told that bears cannot climb a sort of tree called Carpinus betulus, known as European hornbeam, because of its bark. Maybe it is a good idea to camp nearby that tree (or determine their locations on a trail) and jump on it in case of danger, cocking a snook at the bear. 
Phantomhorse13. I’ve just copied your comment and pasted it. I like the wildlife in the US and you can never know. Let me confess that I was concerned about myself when I started this topic. Well, I was worried about my skull in the case of a sudden encounter and panic of the horse driving her crazy. But it is good that you first consider your horse’s welfare. (Envied) 
Cordillera Cowboy. I am not sorry about describing what I believe/was taught. I am sorry that I was wrong in my scientific allegations, which were proven wrong. You know being wrong is a reason for us Easterners to commit suicide . I’m just kidding. A recent article mentioned that strays are also quite an issue in some parts of the US too. I don’t think this is a matter of being developed as a country or geographical direction. Please search for Umuganda on the internet. Rwanda, a third world country, having experienced lots of tragedies… but they are promising a great nation about many environmental things including the troubles with plastics. 
Well, Kangals; many thanks. Yes, a lot of shepherds use them but, while they may look ugly, they have extraordinary traits. As far as I know, they are the only dog breed that can fight a wolf and beat it (of course to protect the stock and owners). And I am happy that nobody will prove that I was wrong with this allegation here. 
Btw, I’ve just realized that I am not on an international forum. Everyone here is American or Canadian


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

We are a bit more international than that. We have people in New Zealand, Australia, Spain, and Germany for sure. There are other places too.

And there is you.

I was confused about where you said you live. Either you are from Turkey? Or somewhere in Asia? If you wish to share more, I would be interested.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

I believe we have a moderator in Latvia...if my one active brain cell remembers correctly.


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## NeverSlapYourHorse (Aug 19, 2015)

Thanks both of you. Well I think I am wrong, again, this time about the forum. I have another topic here and, along with this one, the responders are all Americans and Canadians. 
Celeste: Save for some Greek links, my ancestors are from the Asian steps. My grannies were and aunts are still leading the same life as that of the Asian nomads with most of the mores and applications. They made me fall in love with horses and nature when I was a kid (fetus actually). 
Turkey is supposed to be politically European country but it has a European side that has a small part in Eastern Europe called Thrace and an Asian side that constitutes majority of its land, which makes it an Asian country in reality. There are two straits segregating Europe and Asia. The people called the Ottomans were a mixture of people from Anatolia, Russia, Ukraine, Europe, etc in the age of empires. They never liked and were like the Turks; so the eyes of the Asian Turks remained focused on back there in my opinion.
It is an interesting idea that Americans will not be there and I will not be here if our common interest did not exist: Horses. 
Please note that you can have great rides in Turkey. 
If you can go here: These 10 Rare And Beautiful Horses Are Like Nothing You've EVER Seen!, 
then you will see an Asian horse (ranking 1st). It is called Akhal Teke. Quite a Turkish name. Greetings.


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