# What is this?



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

bsms's sheepherder camping out for the night with his sheep, his horse and a spare and his trusty shepherd. 



Is this being added to the simulation?


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## jonbailey (May 7, 2018)

Yes, something I added since my maternal great uncle was a sheep rancher in Oregon. 
Yes, added it to the simulated model railroad layout. Reminds me of my great uncle and has special meaning. 
It must be great to be an agrarian type out in Mother Nature's woods. 

I have seen several movies with American sheepmen and this is what my scene here reminds me of.

I tend to think of American sheepmen as cowboys with fleece-bearing critters instead of cattle. 

The two horses are for two men. One man is up and about while the other is sleeping in his pup tent. 
See the pair of black boots out the white tent door near the campfire? In my scenery here are two Shepherd dogs but
only one is visible in the picture. Those poor shepherds in the bible had to hoof it: no horses, I don't think. No Shepherd dogs
for security and no guns to defend flocks from wolf attacks. 

Here is a question to the horsemen here: would the horses remain saddled for the night out on a livestock drive? Would they be tied to something?


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Pretty cool.

Horses would not be left saddled. 

They would likely be hobbled on their front legs. Or picketed. 

If picketed, they would have a cuff around one foreleg, and a long rope attached to that. Anchored to a heavy object. 

They would not be tied to a high line or tree because they are expected to graze at night.


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## jonbailey (May 7, 2018)

boots said:


> Pretty cool.
> 
> Horses would not be left saddled.
> 
> ...


Horses graze at night? When do they sleep?


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

They’ll sleep sometimes and graze sometimes, but it is their time to eat.


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## jonbailey (May 7, 2018)

After watching all these cowboy movies over the years, I have never seen picketing a horse out on a cattle drive. 
Recall _The Cowboys_ with John Wayne and Bruce Dern, 1972.

In towns out west, riders would come in and tie their mounts to the hitching post by the reins, I believe.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I haven’t worked on a wagon myself; @boots may have. I have camped with cows for a job of keeping them within a private allotment. The horses were never left saddled or tied. We set up a little corral for one to stay in while the others were hobbled out. One was terrible to travel out with her hobbles, but I think the corralled horse was in the case we lost our others and needed to go find them.

It would be unfair to leave a horse saddled constantly, and they do need to eat. I see many sheep herders in my area, and they always have their horses hobbled out unsaddled when they are at camp.


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## jonbailey (May 7, 2018)

Knave said:


> I haven’t worked on a wagon myself; @boots may have. I have camped with cows for a job of keeping them within a private allotment. The horses were never left saddled or tied. We set up a little corral for one to stay in while the others were hobbled out. One was terrible to travel out with her hobbles, but I think the corralled horse was in the case we lost our others and needed to go find them.
> 
> It would be unfair to leave a horse saddled constantly, and they do need to eat. I see many sheep herders in my area, and they always have their horses hobbled out unsaddled when they are at camp.


In cowboy movies, how were the horses usually kept while camped out on the trail? I figure back in the old wild, wild west, it might have been tactically prudent to keep the horses saddled and in tack constantly in case trouble came. Rustlers, Indians, highway robbers, etc. The olden-days cowboys would have also have had to secured their horses against running away, being attacked by wild animals or being stolen. I believe having a cowboy posted all during the night on watch shifts was common.


In this old episode of Lassie, the young man is out on the trail in the wilderness. He camps overnight. His horse is unsaddled at camp. He is tethered to a tree or bush or something. I think by the foot. In the woods there appears to be no vegetation for grazing. He may have had horse chow in his provisions. Often forest floors have not much ground vegetation to speak of and I don't know if horses will browse. 






See mark 13:25


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I do think it possible a cowboy was posted with a saddled horse, but I do disagree at leaving unridden horses saddled. My grandfather and even his were always cowboys, and my father and family members. My husband too... and so I have been raised on stories of the history of it too.

Anyways, a horse is very valuable. My grandfather told me that back then they were even more valuable, because without a horse you didn’t have anything. There are ways of caring for a horse that are just matter of fact. Yes, in the old movies the horses were tied at the store. I tie my horse when I am somewhere visiting or the like, but that isn’t overnight. I’m not saying in an emergency it wouldn’t be done, but there isn’t a horseman alive who would be happy to do it.


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## jonbailey (May 7, 2018)

Knave said:


> I do think it possible a cowboy was posted with a saddled horse, but I do disagree at leaving unridden horses saddled. My grandfather and even his were always cowboys, and my father and family members. My husband too... and so I have been raised on stories of the history of it too.
> 
> Anyways, a horse is very valuable. My grandfather told me that back then they were even more valuable, because without a horse you didn’t have anything. There are ways of caring for a horse that are just matter of fact. Yes, in the old movies the horses were tied at the store. I tie my horse when I am somewhere visiting or the like, but that isn’t overnight. I’m not saying in an emergency it wouldn’t be done, but there isn’t a horseman alive who would be happy to do it.


In old cowboy films, standing horses are sometimes used as cover for gunfights. I think old-school cowboys must have been skilled at saddling their horses up in a hurry if need be. Certainly soldiers in the cavalry might have been very quick at putting their horses in tack and saddle. I have seen fast saddling skills at "the wild horse race event" at a Salinas, California rodeo back in 1991. These are bucking horses they are trying to saddle up under the running clock, not even tame ones, as one would ride out on the trail. A horse was like a good lifeboat on a sinking ship. There were times in history when a horse was a matter of life or death for a man in the wilds or on the battlefield.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

jonbailey said:


> See mark 13:25


I don’t know if I quoted that right; I’m not sure how to cut out pieces. Anyways I looked that up, but I’m not sure the relation.


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## jonbailey (May 7, 2018)

Knave said:


> I don’t know if I quoted that right; I’m not sure how to cut out pieces. Anyways I looked that up, but I’m not sure the relation.


That is the time place on the video I posted, not a verse in the bible!


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Oh, lol. That makes more sense. Of course, the apocalyptic verse could suggest a reason to leave a horse saddled...


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## jonbailey (May 7, 2018)

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+13%3A25&version=KJV

Mark 13:25 King James Version (KJV)
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

In that case one better have ticket to board a spaceship ("The Starship Pegasus") to another galaxy instead of a wingless saddled horse on standby.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Longest I ride with a wagon was 9 days, so I can't call myself seasoned. But I know, from talking to others, that how the outfits I was with did things similar to others.

Horses were turned out at night, with a couple of them wearing bells. The wrangler knew the horses and put a bell on at least one in reach group. He knew how the horses would divide up. 

Wrangler kept a couple horses with the wagon. Those had been grazing along all day, and he tied them to a high line. Then he'd wake up earlier than everybody but the cook and go find the horses and bring them to where we were.

Your project sounds interesting @jonbailey


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