# Gypsy vanner Cross



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

is she the result of intentional or accidental breeding? she is very cute. I really don't know how to approach a conformation critique of a teenager. I'll stay with "cute".


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## rwurban (Sep 26, 2014)

she was accidental breeding .. as is all of the breeding that goes on at this farm (not mine just where i bought my mare from )


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## MyBayQHFilly (May 13, 2014)

rwurban said:


> she was accidental breeding .. as is all of the breeding that goes on at this farm (not mine just where i bought my mare from )


If it happens repeatedly, it's not accidental. No, don't breed that filly.


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## rwurban (Sep 26, 2014)

MyBayQHFilly said:


> No, don't breed that filly.



why not breed her ?? it would be for personal a personal horse


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## rwurban (Sep 26, 2014)

MyBayQHFilly... i consider her accidental because my mare was forgot about until i bought her ... when she was apperently already bred the previouse owner didn't even consider her to be able to be bred to the stallion so yeah i do kinda fine that a little offencive when you just say no dont breed her ... and do you even own horses ?? if you gave me a legitimat reason for not breeding her other than you say no ........than why should i even listen to you?? .. i am no expert but as far as i know no one is ... every horse is diferent no one person can know every horse in the world and absolutly everything about them


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## CrossCountry (May 18, 2013)

There is a lot that goes into breeding horses. Will this filly be professionally trained and have some type of show record? Is her conformation as close to perfect as it can be? Unless the foal can be registered or is worth some type of value - breeding would be a pothole of money. Have you considered the expenses that go into breeding? Or the possibility of losing the mare, foal or even both? 

There are so many good horses that go unwanted - I wouldn't want to add another one into that number. Even if they are a "personal horse", there are always things that happen that make you not able to keep them. Why not buy a horse that has everything you're looking for rather than rolling the dice on a foal that may not survive.

You asked if it would be a good idea to breed her - don't get offended because someone offered their opinion.


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## Jumping4Joy (Jan 29, 2014)

I say don't breed her. She wasn't bred on purpose, so most likely she's not going to have the best conformation. I don't understand why you can't just go out and buy a gypsy vanner foal? Why do you feel the need to breed? And please don't say because you "love your mare so much". I agree with CrossCountry, there are so many unwanted horses out there that need homes, it's not really a good idea to put another horse on the ground. Financial situations change and you may have to sell, who wants a average horse now a days? Not very many people. Honestly, you should just leave the breeding to professionals and just buy a foal, or whatever you're interested in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

She's adorable but unless something changes drastically, she has a poorly built hind end. Very post legged and with a very tiny butt for her breed, or for any horse really. She might fill out with age though. I'm another person for not breeding her but she IS cute and I'm sure she'll be fun to ride. Maybe not super comfortable though! I ride a gelding (12 though, not a baby obviously) with the same hind end and his trot leaves a lot to be desired. He has a heart of gold though!


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## budley95 (Aug 15, 2014)

She's very sweet but conformationally she looks too narrow amd too straight through her hocks. But I'm not very good at conformation. 

I think she's lovely and will make a nice happy hacker, but I don't think she's a good candidate to breed from. We're overstocked with horses. To be bred from the mare in my opinion, should have close to perfect conformation, have a proven competition record in a desired field, have exceptional breeding herself and have a superb temperament. The owner needs to spend a long time deciding on the correct stallion to correct conformation faults of the mare, the stallion needs a good temperament, a good competition record in a desired field, preferably with prodigeney already proving themselves and basically makes up for anything the mare lacks. Backyard breeding, like what has happened with your mare will not do that. I don't mean to be harsh but what happens when you go off to college or leave home and cant afford the horses anymore? If you have to sell, having 2 of indiscriminate breeding is a lot harder than 1. The foal wouldnt be full bred gypsy vanner, it will be a heinz 57 and pot luck how it turns out, if it doesnt die in the process, or kill your mare. The stud fees and vets fees and gelding if its a colt or extortianate. My friend bred from her fully registered dutch warmblood with 5 generations of bloodlines recorded. She worked out it cost her £8000 to get the foal to 18 months old with vet checks, stud fees, gelding, additional food and livery and vets fees when it hurt itself being a baby. If you have that sort of money laying around, buy a fully registered gypsy vanner schooled to a high level in what you want, savr yourself the heartache. 

After watching my friend lose her pony mare and foal as the foal got trapped in the middle if the night foaling when nobody was about and coming out to find her dead, I dont mean to sound horriblr but that can happen.

This isnt meant to sound harsh, its a way of saying leave the breeding to the experts witg proven broofmares and stallions
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tracer (Sep 16, 2012)

She's so cute and fluffy!

I sincerely doubt that that hind end would cope well with a big foal, if any. The rest of her doesn't look too bad to me, though it's hard to tell at that age (and I'm a little bit hopeless).

MyBayQHFilly was right though, IMO. What they said sounded harsh, so I get why you got defensive, but they're right. I might not be an American, but everyone knows what the horse market there is like. You might only want the foal for yourself, but like the others have said, life happens. Are you going to be able to provide for that foal for the entirety of its life? There's so many chances for things to go wrong, even when breeding from a mare and stallion with A+ conformation. Your filly isn't looking like she's going to be physically suitable for breeding and, if you went ahead with it, you risk her dying, the foal dying, or the foal being born with faults. 

That said, she's adorable and you're going to have the next 20 or so years with her, if all goes well. Treasure her, and put breeding aside.


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## rwurban (Sep 26, 2014)

Tracer said:


> She's so cute and fluffy!
> 
> I sincerely doubt that that hind end would cope well with a big foal, if any. The rest of her doesn't look too bad to me, though it's hard to tell at that age (and I'm a little bit hopeless).
> 
> ...


Im not american either so theydont really realize it isharder to find a good gypsy where i am from


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

rwurban said:


> Im not american either so theydont really realize it isharder to find a good gypsy where i am from


I think part of the point is that she isn't a good example of the gypsy breed. When breeding, your aim should be for the best, not mediocre or "good enough." 

Google images of gypsy yearlings. Even at this age, she can be compared to other youngsters her age. What I see is that she is lacking in many areas. As has been noted, her hind end is narrow, very straight, and she appears VERY cowhocked (more than just the normal rotation a horse's hind leg is supposed to have). She looks very weedy for her age and I'm not sure if that's a wormy belly or a hay belly she has. 

With as tight as the gypsy market is, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a breeder with a quality stallion who would breed to her.

You asked for an honest assessment of whether she is breeding material or not. She is not.


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## rwurban (Sep 26, 2014)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> I think part of the point is that she isn't a good example of the gypsy breed. When breeding, your aim should be for the best, not mediocre or "good enough."
> 
> Google images of gypsy yearlings. Even at this age, she can be compared to other youngsters her age. What I see is that she is lacking in many areas. As has been noted, her hind end is narrow, very straight, and she appears VERY cowhocked (more than just the normal rotation a horse's hind leg is supposed to have). She looks very weedy for her age and I'm not sure if that's a wormy belly or a hay belly she has.
> 
> ...


Im not asking about Profesional breeding i would like another horse and the only way i can get a desent horse is if i work with it from day one thatis what happened with this girl now i will have a well trained horse by the time she is fully grown as for her belly she is still extremely fuzzy & getting dewormed within the next week or so and yeah everyone is seeming to think that everyone goes into competition . .,whyshould i pay a stupid amout of money for a horse i dont want gypsyvanner are way to pricey for an over gloified trail horse and have never been a fan of the standard type breeds... all breeds i like and enjoy riding are either well pointless for way to much for what you get so...why not breed her ?if ideside to breed her shewill be getting vet check tomake sure she has nothing wrong with her if the vet tells me she shouldn't be bred i will listen to my vet there is nothing wrong with owning a mediocre horse ...


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## rwurban (Sep 26, 2014)

To every one who say don't breed her because of all of the risks ...guess whatall those proven brood mares are just as likley to have difficulty birthing as a new horse sorry to burst any bubbles but those proven mares half thetimethey are therescue horses ..ive had one..... i have rescued a horse she was a 9 yr old mare and nothing more than a pasture pet/brood mare aswasmy current mare the fillies mother !!! The 9 year old was to much for me to handle she needed guys touch that i could not give her i got her to green broke for a walk but could not get past that stage worked with her for over a year and I could not get her to trot without bucking..so i gave her tosomeone who could handle her ...and that is when I realized i needed togetmy horses as young as possible to mold them into something i can trust my kids around and eventually on I'm not afraid of a challenge ...i am not afraid to be criticized for my choice to not adopt an older horse who is not trained .. no way will i ever do that again unless im looking for a pasture pet... but I believe firmly if your going to buy a horse .... spend at minimum 1 hour with the horse just on the ground petting it...breeders dont like that it"wastes their time" and i could never buy the type of conection i have with this filly ...there is a difference on buying a horse ...... and remembering the first time youlay eyes on your very own foal for the first time and knowing you will own it until the day it dies......btw not every foaling is horrible that was bad luck with that mare


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Why did you ask for our opinion if you're just going to argue and be rude when we don't tell you what you want to hear?

Also, your argument about training a youngster your way as a reason for breeding this filly is invalid. You can get very nice weanlings at auction for a pittance. FAR less than you would pay to breed and care for a pregnant mare.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tracer (Sep 16, 2012)

Wait... so you've had bad experiences with getting dodgy, poorly trained horse, and that's your reason for having to breed one?

If you put the effort into finding a good horse, you will still get what you want.

And your other reason, for paying a stupid amount of money for an over-glorified trail horse - you realise that's all you'll be making, albeit one with poor conformation? As has already been pointed out, you're going to be paying a lot more to get a foal from conception to rideable than you would buying a trained gypsy. You're going to breed a failure of a horse just because you a) don't want to pay money and b) you're picky about breeds.

Ah well, you have to wait at least another 2 years, so hopefully you'll come to your senses before then.


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## Regula (Jan 23, 2012)

U-huh. Good luck!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

She's certainly cute but I don't know if I would breed her later on. Breeding is expensive When you consider the breeding fees, vet bills for pre breeding exam and post breeding ultrasound, vaccinations throughout the pregnancy, feed, any other miscellaneous supplies you require, and just the cost of your time. And at the end of it all, you have no guarantee that the foal will have a personality like sire or dam. You could get a sweetheart or a hellion lol. Is she registered? I know papers aren't the be all end all, but they are important to many people. If something happened that forced you to sell, is she or any offspring registered/registerable? If you're dead set to breed her, is there any breed you'd like that would result in a registerable foal? 

The other thing I'd mention is you say you want a safe horse for your kids. Depending on their age, I wouldn't put a kid on anything younger than 6-7 at minimum and I would prefer older than that. Any younger, no matter how sweet and calm they are, they just don't have the experience to be safe for a child. So are you or your kids prepared to wait that long?


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## Jumping4Joy (Jan 29, 2014)

Do you not understand how much it is to breed a mare and care for a foal? A fee for a good stud is generally $2000+, add vet bills, add the price of a trainer. IMO, you sound like a backyard breeder and i don't support that at all. Nobody said YOU had to be a professional breeder, they said get a horse from a professional breeder. As stated, you can easily get a perfectly good horse from an auction or sometimes a private seller at a good price.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Remember, the OP is used to "accidental" breeding, which are free, and they likely pretend they have no idea the mare is in foal until she delivers, so there is likely none of the in utero care that most of us would do. So, fingers crossed that mare delivers without killing her or the foal…..or both. Please do wait a couple of years-AT LEAST, and realize that just because a vet check prior to breeding says the mare has the right parts-and CAN breed, does not mean she SHOULD.

This is one of those threads that make me want to bang my head against a wall. I have little patience for people who ask for opinions or help then got offended and argue with those here who take their time to try and be helpful.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Your little filly is cute, but she is not a very well built horse. Nothing to do with Gypsy Vanner or anything. It has to do with HER. She is post legged behind, her shoulder is steep, her neck ties in to her chest low and she as a very round, steep croup. This is a horse that will grow up to jar your teeth at the trot on the trail and may not hold up well with regular, daily riding. This is not a horse to breed. 

ANY mare can run into trouble foaling. Proven broodmares do not usually die of the situation because they are watched and the owners can afford a vet to come out.. several times in the same night if necessary.. to save the mare. Money is in it, and so they do all they can and can afford to do all they can. I worked a few years foaling mares on a Thoroughbred Farm so I do know what I am talking about. 

The most dangerous thing a horse can do is to have a foal. Birthing used to be the most dangerous thing a woman could do (and it still is in some countries). I had a dairy farm.. and most of my dairy cows that I lost (I did not lose many at all) were lost due to complications associated with Calving. All the money you save by letting your filly run with a stallion (even if no fee is involved) to make a baby can be lost if there are complications at foaling.. and even if you have the money for the finest vet care on earth you can still lose the mare and the foal. 

Now, this is your filly and she won't be bred until she is 3 or four at the earliest and you will do what you want to do. In the mean time train her and see how it goes.


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## Red Gate Farm (Aug 28, 2011)

A quick Google search comes up with Gypsy Vanner breeders in Alberta.

Wild Rose Gypsy Horses
North Fork Gypsy Cobs
Black Orchid Gypsy Vanners
Prairie Thunder Ranch

Go and look at their stock and educate your eye on what a well conformed Gypsy should look like. Show pictures of your filly to the breeders and ask them if they would breed their stallion to her. And _listen_ to their answers.

I like Quarter Horses, so when looking at other breeds objectively, I have to go and research that breed to educate my eye on what _that_ breed should look like.


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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

rwurban said:


> Im not asking about Profesional breeding i would like another horse and the only way i can get a desent horse is if i work with it from day one thatis what happened with this girl now i will have a well trained horse by the time she is fully grown as for her belly she is still extremely fuzzy & getting dewormed within the next week or so and yeah everyone is seeming to think that everyone goes into competition . .,whyshould i pay a stupid amout of money for a horse i dont want gypsyvanner are way to pricey for an over gloified trail horse and have never been a fan of the standard type breeds... all breeds i like and enjoy riding are either well pointless for way to much for what you get so...why not breed her ?if ideside to breed her *shewill be getting vet check tomake sure she has nothing wrong with her if the vet tells me she shouldn't be bred i will listen to my vet there is nothing wrong with owning a mediocre horse* ...


Vets only check to see if they are reproductively sound to breed. They don't step back and say "wow this mares super post legged and back at the knee, you shouldn't breed her." 

And nobody said it was wrong to own a mediocre horse. CREATING mediocre horses is where the problem lies.


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