# Horse leads then stops and wont move again!!!!!!!!



## Nina (Feb 12, 2011)

Hi all, 

Ive recently bought a colt, he is 2 years old and has now been with myself around a month, hes doing very well and has settled in fine. The only thing I seem to have trouble with is when leading. He is not scared and seems to just have these occasional stubborn moments where he refuses to move. I have tried everything from moving him backwards, to walking at his shoulder and pushing him on to standing at the end of the lead rope and seeing if hell come forward on his own accord to walking him in a cricle when he stops to pushing his hindquaters, but none of that seems to work. 

I was just wondering if anyone has had a horse and had the same problem or knows how to help me take a step forward and get him on the go, I have been doing alot of reading up but it seems to pretty much suggest doing what ive done but doesnt work!!!!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

The only thing I would know if you might have done.
I would have him on a long lead (like 12 feet or more) and use a rope halter.
I lead with my horse about 3 feet behind me. If he stops and wont come forward I take the loose end of the lead rope and swing it around behind me and try to reach as far back as possible to either touch him with it, or just move throught the air near him. He may not come forward. He may runs sideways or even backward, but he does MOVE. so this serves to break him out of the stalemate, then I begin walking forward and he should now follow.

I don't know if this is correct for every horse because if your horse is so green that he doesn't know how to lead at all, then this might not be good. But my horse knows what leading is, so if he refuses to come up and stay with me, he is being stubborn and I will correct him.

Good luck and hopefully you will get some good ideas.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Get a dressage whip or could use the end on your lead line and whack him in the butt the second he stops moving forward.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Another idea that works is to get another lead rope and wrap it around his butt (like you would do when teaching a foal to lead), then when he plants his feet, give him a little bump with the rope around his butt. That will almost always get them moving again.


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

Lola did the exact same thing when I got her! She just about walks the whole way now without stopping. It happened mostly coming in from the field and going into the arena...She may stop once now coming in from the field but she walks straight into the arena now without stopping...

I had to bring a whip with me a few times but that made her back away and nearly rear. So now if she stops I stand right and her shoulder instead of going ahead of her and pulling. when I go back to her shoulder she usually walks with me again. If that does not work I swing the lead rope behind me...

It is probably a trust thing. Maybe once he gets used to you he will walk better.


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## Nina (Feb 12, 2011)

*leading problems and height question at end...thanks guys*

hey thanks for all your quick come backs.

I have not tried the long line around the butt so will give that a go as he could wolk for five mins past something again and again which is why it makes me think he is just being stubborn, so that deffinatly sounds like a good idea as i have tried giving him a tap on his side with the lead rope and he just goes into reverse and tries to rear. Looks like a trip to the saddle shop is in order lol. 

Also I dont know if you have any clues he is 2 and around 14.2 - his mam is dales and his dad a 17hh tb, Ive been reading up and alot of sites say he will grow a bit more then the other half say he wont but will fill out. I am not really bothered either way but it would be nice to know if anyone has had a colt/filly around that age and thinks he may grow more or just fill out could you let me know just so i know what to expect.

Thanks


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

It varies on how long they will continue to grow. Some horses will continue to gain height into their 5 year old year and other stop growing a 3. He will likely continue to build muscle mass and bulk up until he is probably 7 or 8 though.


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## nitemystichorse (Jan 16, 2011)

Im having the same problem with a new pony i have. He stops and plants his feet. i have tried alot. still fighting with him.


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## Nina (Feb 12, 2011)

Its so frustrating isnt it, If I have any joy I will give you a shout and let you know what it is I did so you can try putting it into practice with yours. In the mean time good luck


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

The creation of impulsion is a requirement in all phases of training and you might as well start thinking about it right now.

How do you create it?
Some people treat a horse or drag them.
Some threaten or discipline.

You can chase the horse or inspire the horse and that is your choice to make.

I always look to inspire them to move forward and it starts here.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

You can use a 1/4 inch nylon string. Take about 2 1/2 feet of it and tie a 2 " loop in each end. Make a slip knot out of the one end and tie it around the upper side ring on the right side of a flat nylon halter. Take the rest of this string and run it through the lower right side ring, under the horse's chin and out the lower left side ring. This leaves you a loop just outside of the left side ring of the halter. Snap your lead into this instead of the halter. It draws tight and is uncomfortable when the horse sulls or stops and it releases the instant he comes forward. 

I have used this little trick to get horses into a barn when they did not want to go and to trailer load. It is so important to release when they step forward. This is the only 'reward' that they need. I have never seen one that this does not work on if applied properly. Remember, you cannot lose your temper and go to jerking on the string. Once you make a horse 'reactive', it will NOT learn until you let it settle down and go back to being 'responsive'. 

The same can be done with a chain, but it is much more severe, so it gets many horses 'on the fight'. Since the chain does not release as quickly as the smooth string, I have found the string much more effective.

This is instant pressure and release if you quit pulling as soon as the horse steps forward. It does not take two people and it does not make a horse 'silly' or reactive.


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## Nina (Feb 12, 2011)

That would be great if it works, I have never and would never hit him as I don't believe in it, I would tap him with the rope as a reinforcemnt but as you will know yourself if you have horses its the noise not the hit that makes the actual affect and sends the horse forward. I apriciate your photo but unfortunatly that hasn't worked with him and I found it rather dangerous and he wants to go back and my other horse stands there waiting for him to come forward so I'm neither nor in control of either of them, I belive I will reward him with attention when he is good and ignore him when he is not, I feel this will be the best way forward and form the strongest bond in the mean time as I want him ro follow me not my mare in the long run
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

rather than use a war bridle, which is what you're doing when you put a rope through the rings in a nylon web halter, do what marecare suggests and use some psychology VS harsher equipment.

perhaps some simple pressure/release using a halter would work. stand in front of the horse, slowly but surely pull him towards you, and the moment he takes even a step forward, or even leans forward, release all pressure. repeat the process untill the horse knows what to do when only a light pull is applied.

do that lots.

then when your horse lags behind while leading, stop, SLOWLY pull him towards you, but hesitate your release of the pressure untill your horse is trotting towards you. (you'll have to power walk/jog away from the horse to do such a thing) then once your horse is trotting towards you, slow back down to a normal walk.

if you've taught the submit to pressure as described in the 2nd paragraph well, then the "be even more submissive to pressure" lesson (3rd paragraph) will be easy, and will greatly improve how your horse leads.

and try to be as soft with your lead as possible, liken your lead rope while leading to your reins while riding. avoid any jerking actions and always bring on any pressure slowly and release it the instant the right response is achieved.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

War bridle? Harsh? WOW! is all I can say.

I have never seen anyone in 50 years of using a 'sugar string' that called 5# of pressure on string 'harsh'. 

But, I guess there is a first time for everything. It replaces a chain, a whip, and most other methods that can truly be harsh.

Most other methods recommended here can result is a horse that gets afraid of a handler and starts running backwards or sideways away from the handler or at the least braces and raises the horse's head. The little benign string makes a horse just uncomfortable enough to want the pressure to release. It is not more uncomfortable than pulling on an ordinary halter --- it is just a NEW nerve in a NEW spot and the horse wants relief from it. I have not seen a horse that does not step forward and lead right after 1 short lesson.

It is not only effective; it is time effective and actually teaches leading. 

Leading should mean leading -- anywhere, any time, any place. It is pressure on the halter (or at least some part of it) that should tell the horse that leading is not optional.


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## CanyonCowboy (Apr 30, 2010)

I like the very "Zen" approach discussed by Marecare. I like that concept and will try to incorporate it more in my training.

I think it is CA who says you contol the mind of a horse by controlling his feet. (rope halter, long lead) If I'm leading and my horse decides to just stop, I want him to understand it is much more fun and relaxing to walk nicely with me than to do his own thing. If I have the room, I will use the end of my lead rope to move him around me a few times in a tight circle (not hitting, just use the rope to impart the feel of moving his feet - ask, tell, demand). Or, I'll just double him back (immediately when he braces, I'll turn around and walk past him the other direction, bringing his head around and yielding his hip out of the way. Immediately reverse again (tight against his side) so he has to hip yield to turn, and walk on. If I'm on some narrow place (sidewalk, trail, etc.), I will start walking backward (saying "back, back, back") spinning the rope like a propeller in front of me. When I pass his nose (going backward), it is his choice to either back up, or run into my rope. Back him up 5 steps or so, and lead on. Lead with a purpose - we are GOING to the arena. Not mean, but direct. You can walk with me, or work a little harder, your choice, but we are going to the arena.

Make the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard. (another quote)


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

CanyonCowboy said:


> I like the very "Zen" approach discussed by Marecare. I like that concept and will try to incorporate it more in my training.
> 
> I think it is CA who says you contol the mind of a horse by controlling his feet. (rope halter, long lead) If I'm leading and my horse decides to just stop, I want him to understand it is much more fun and relaxing to walk nicely with me than to do his own thing. If I have the room, I will use the end of my lead rope to move him around me a few times in a tight circle (not hitting, just use the rope to impart the feel of moving his feet - ask, tell, demand). Or, I'll just double him back (immediately when he braces, I'll turn around and walk past him the other direction, bringing his head around and yielding his hip out of the way. Immediately reverse again (tight against his side) so he has to hip yield to turn, and walk on. If I'm on some narrow place (sidewalk, trail, etc.), I will start walking backward (saying "back, back, back") spinning the rope like a propeller in front of me. When I pass his nose (going backward), it is his choice to either back up, or run into my rope. Back him up 5 steps or so, and lead on. Lead with a purpose - we are GOING to the arena. Not mean, but direct. You can walk with me, or work a little harder, your choice, but we are going to the arena.
> 
> Make the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard. (another quote)



Thank you CC,
It comes from too many years of Martial Arts classes..Ha!

I am going to post a few pictures here of leading and finding the impulsion.
The techniques here are Western and ranch based and I understand some will not approach it this way.
I am also not saying the OP has to do it this way and it is not the only way to do things.

In many cases I will have to move several horses at once and we are always having to go through some kind of gate.
The opportunity is always there for horses to "Squirt" through the gate and get the handler in a jam.
We spend a lot of time showing the horse or horses how to position themselves and to keep moving with the leader(me).








Giving the horse the freedom to move but teaching them where to be.
















Two horses.








Three.


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## Nina (Feb 12, 2011)

Tried that also and unfortunatly it didnt work, i found it rather dangerous actually as the colt stopped and started backing up and rearing as i had to try and keep control of my mare and the balsitic colt that didnt want to move forward, so a good thought but unfortunatly not one that worked for me. I always used contact as a reward I dont do treats only now and again as i do not want a nippy horse and i certainly do not hit my horse or show my frustration and try my best to keep calm and that just makes the situation worse, i find it much better to ingnore the bad and over praise the good.


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

Nina said:


> Tried that also and unfortunatly it didnt work, i found it rather dangerous actually as the colt stopped and started backing up and rearing as i had to try and keep control of my mare and the balsitic colt that didnt want to move forward, so a good thought but unfortunatly not one that worked for me. I always used contact as a reward I dont do treats only now and again as i do not want a nippy horse and i certainly do not hit my horse or show my frustration and try my best to keep calm and that just makes the situation worse, i find it much better to ingnore the bad and over praise the good.



I have seen you post theses statements before and maybe if you were to post a picture of what you are doing it might help.


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## CanyonCowboy (Apr 30, 2010)

From the March, 2011 Western Horseman, Page 36:

"For example, a rider might want to simply lead a horse that is reluctant to leave the barn. As the horse slowly walks, the handler drags the horse along on a taut lead rope. The horse stops walking and the handler stops, puts slack in the lead rope and looks back at the horse. The handler has made the wrong thing (stopping) easy and the right thing (walking with slack in the lead line) difficult."

Just read it at lunch.


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## Arksly (Mar 13, 2010)

I think something that would help a lot is if you have a trainer, or more experienced horse person, to show you what to do and give you tips as you try to do it.


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

CanyonCowboy said:


> From the March, 2011 Western Horseman, Page 36:
> 
> "For example, a rider might want to simply lead a horse that is reluctant to leave the barn. As the horse slowly walks, the handler drags the horse along on a taut lead rope. The horse stops walking and the handler stops, puts slack in the lead rope and looks back at the horse. The handler has made the wrong thing (stopping) easy and the right thing (walking with slack in the lead line) difficult."
> 
> Just read it at lunch.


I also often find that new horse owners or owners that are working with a horse that they are unfamiliar with will put themselves into bad leverage positions and try to muscle the horse to where they want to go and a horse is not led with physical strength.









A horse must learn to follow the rope and this is also the foundation of tying hard and ground tying.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

I'm not sure if I missed it - WHERE are you trying to lead the horse? And to do what?

If you only go out to catch your horse to work or have the vet or farrier to see the horse, he's trying to tell you the relationship is not working for him.

Change up why you go out to get him. Bring him in to brush and put hinm back out. Bring him in for no reason other than a walk in hand around the parking area and then put him back out.

If I have a reluctant boarders horse, I will carry an extra lead line or buggy whip. As soon as there is resistance, I tap on the hip while I am still moving. (Right hand holding lead rope and left hand/arm doing the encouraging.) The horse's nose needs to be at my shoulder but about an arms length to the side. Perfect position. Discourages the horse from getting ahead or falling behind but allows me to watch their head for any indication they may try to bite, duck out, etc.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Nina said:


> Tried that also and unfortunatly it didnt work, i found it rather dangerous actually as the colt stopped and started backing up and rearing as i had to try and keep control of my mare and the balsitic colt that didnt want to move forward, so a good thought but unfortunatly not one that worked for me. I always used contact as a reward I dont do treats only now and again as i do not want a nippy horse and i certainly do not hit my horse or show my frustration and try my best to keep calm and that just makes the situation worse, i find it much better to ingnore the bad and over praise the good.


Honestly...I don't think you are ready to train a horse, if you can't find the will to gain control of this young horse's feet...you don't have to be cruel to do so, but you have to be willing to BE his leader, and he has figured out already, from reading about his behavior, that you are not. Get a trainer who can work with you one on one, or find someone who has the knowledge to properly raise and train him, and count your loss before you or him get's injured. 

I know this sounds harsh, but I've seen one too many horses and owners get heartbroken and injured over the years because the owners bit off more than they could chew.


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

im in agreeance with marecare and mom2pride.

leading is one of the most underrated things you can do with a horse. a horse that leads badly will probably ride badly in the same way (if the horse is always laging behind and your constantly having to pull him up, it will likely be the type of horse that you'll have to constantly keep nagging forward while riding to have him maintain gait nicely)

perhaps getting a trainer to help you & your horse is the way to go.


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## Nina (Feb 12, 2011)

christopher said:


> im in agreeance with marecare and mom2pride.
> 
> leading is one of the most underrated things you can do with a horse. a horse that leads badly will probably ride badly in the same way (if the horse is always laging behind and your constantly having to pull him up, it will likely be the type of horse that you'll have to constantly keep nagging forward while riding to have him maintain gait nicely)
> 
> perhaps getting a trainer to help you & your horse is the way to go.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nina (Feb 12, 2011)

Thank you for your comments, im unsure if you actually read my first post, The colt which I have bought is 2 and has been stuck in a stable for this period of time he had not been handled for this period of time and therfore had no experience at all or familiarity with humans to the point where he was cowar in the corner of the stable bite and try and kick. I find your comments very frustrating as my horse now comes to call will let me brush his full body etc. I lead him arouynd the yard as you said and i lead him to the yard to be brushed this is the only places i take him to and it is inbetween that he stops he will eventually get moving again but i wanted to have suggestions on getting him from a to b without a pause in between. Your comment about getting rid of him because of this matter is absoloute nonsense, im sure if you have horses you will know that they have their own personality and will not do what you want them to do all of the time. i would not howerver tell you to get rid of them so I suggest you stop thowing such ridicolous comments about. As i said I lead my horse around the yard where is is familiar and comfortable, i do not yank on his head like the idot on the photo as that will just make him worse. I went to college for 3 years to study equine and there behaviour and am very good friends with a farrier and vet who is his own company and they cannot belive the difference in him in such a short time, i was asking for advice not childish comments such as you dont know what your doing and get rid. If only you thought before you speak or ask for information you would have realised this and considering how much i have done to bring him round i hope your realise now how pathectic your little commment sounded and also this is what this forum is about helping people who have queries or would like some advice on horses, if all you have to say is get rid, i thin. your in the wrong place.:evil:


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## Nina (Feb 12, 2011)

also the comment regarding the horse that was backing up whilst the rider is on the horse is of a vidoe on you tube, i would not want to put either of my horses in that dangerous situation which is why i have not done it with my colt so i suggest you take less information from photographs and actually get some ground info before you advise peple on there horses as i am assuming the horse in picture one and the one in picture 2 are neither of your horses? and just something which you happened to see which on picture 1 was said to work and on picture 2 something which is said not to be done, not something that you have actually experienced or done yourself?


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

I have a question and it is a serious one.
Is English a second language for you?


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## Nina (Feb 12, 2011)

Its very much my first pet, live in england, newcastle if you want to put a point on it, unfortunatly i have a full time job and had to send a quick reply on my dinner so didnt really take much due care and attention to punctuation and did abbreviate a lot of my reply, sorry if you do not understand my short term phrases, on the matter of my last reply i am assuming the answer to my question is a no, so please stop making picky little remarks and get back to your photos and quit waisting my time


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

Good luck.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Nina said:


> I lead him arouynd the yard as you said and i lead him to the yard to be brushed this is the only places i take him to and it is inbetween that he stops he will eventually get moving again but i wanted to have suggestions on getting him from a to b without a pause in between.


I would suggest the dressage or buggy whip. When you sense he is hesitating, reach around and give him a slight tap and add the word WALK.

He's probably very curious and wants to stop and check out the sights. His attention span could very well be behind a "normal" two year olds if he has had no handling.

You'll get there!


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## FTFOTB (Feb 13, 2011)

Nina said:


> Thank you for your comments, im unsure if you actually read my first post, The colt which I have bought is 2 and has been stuck in a stable for this period of time he had not been handled for this period of time and therfore had no experience at all or familiarity with humans to the point where he was cowar in the corner of the stable bite and try and kick. I find your comments very frustrating as my horse now comes to call will let me brush his full body etc. I lead him arouynd the yard as you said and i lead him to the yard to be brushed this is the only places i take him to and it is inbetween that he stops he will eventually get moving again but i wanted to have suggestions on getting him from a to b without a pause in between. Your comment about getting rid of him because of this matter is absoloute nonsense, im sure if you have horses you will know that they have their own personality and will not do what you want them to do all of the time. i would not howerver tell you to get rid of them so I suggest you stop thowing such ridicolous comments about. As i said I lead my horse around the yard where is is familiar and comfortable, i do not yank on his head like the idot on the photo as that will just make him worse. I went to college for 3 years to study equine and there behaviour and am very good friends with a farrier and vet who is his own company and they cannot belive the difference in him in such a short time, i was asking for advice not childish comments such as you dont know what your doing and get rid. If only you thought before you speak or ask for information you would have realised this and considering how much i have done to bring him round i hope your realise now how pathectic your little commment sounded and also this is what this forum is about helping people who have queries or would like some advice on horses, if all you have to say is get rid, i thin. your in the wrong place.:evil:


The suggestions by MareCare, CanyonCowboy, Christopher, etc. were extremely valid. Those methods work _every time_, with every horse. Your horse isn't special needs or different than many other unhandled/untrained horses. The problems you're experiencing are at the very basic levels of horse handling and are not difficult to fix once you understand how. If you are still having problems with this foundation level of horse handling after years of schooling, I think you should get some help from someone in your area who has more experience. In the meantime, please consider re-reading the advice by those who posted here. They really know what they're doing. Their advice is proven, and right on the money. No, you don't have to get rid of your horse. This is a very easy fix.


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## Nina (Feb 12, 2011)

Believe it or not everybody has a different opinion when it comes to horses, not every suggestion works on a certain horse, yes there points my be proven, no i will not ride my horse in the event that it may put me and my horse in danger if my colt goes scatty, if they or you wish to do that then thats fine as it is your choice/opinion, yes i understand that you do not pull a horses head to get it going thats just common knowlegde. I dont wish to do or try either, the rope around the bum and dressage whip sounds more like me and if that is not the way you would deal with a horse like mine then fair do's and it is your choice not to follow that, but it is also in my interest and opinion not to follow what you have just copied and pasted above as i quite frankly find it rather dangerous, if you dont then thats fine. As i said there before everyone has a different opinion and that is mine which obviously differs from yours which is not a good or bad thing, but that does not mean on the other hand that he wont come round and deffinatly doesnt mean i have to sell him (which i find a ridicolously stupid and uneducated thing to say). If that were the general opinion people would be selling there horses every other week as they arent robots and dont always do what their told regardless if they have the worst or best horses in the world. I do however value your opinion!

P.S - Thank you to the above for giving me the dressage whip idea


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## FTFOTB (Feb 13, 2011)

Nina, I'm not sure what you mean about "copied and pasted above"...I didn't copy and paste anything at all. 

All of your posts are difficult to read and understand. I'm still not sure why you asked for help in the first place if you are not going to consider the methods suggested. I don't think you are experienced enough to be hitting this horse with a whip. It's only going to make the problem worse and then you're going to have a bigger problem than you have right now. 

Horses are not born knowing how to lead. You have to show them what you want, with very clear instructions they can understand. If you can't manage to get him to give to pressure on the halter *100% of the time*, you're not going to get too far with him without more issues developing (some of which may become dangerous for you).


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## Nina (Feb 12, 2011)

Hey thanks for all your coments  we got from A to B today without any stops and starts, did it a few times just to make sure it wasnt a fluke and he lead right beside me with no fuss, thanks for all your help.

For those of you who have been twottering on about leading whilst riding another horse this just goes to show that different ideas do work and no before you ask i did not use a whip i used myself and he lead just fine, suppose it just took repitition. Also your comment about not being experienced enough to use a whip is a load of rubbish a whip is an aid not a beating tool thats all it was going to get used for if need be but obviously doesnt need to be now, also if you find what i wrote hard to understand dont reply!!! And i have actually took alot of valuable information from this post just some i chose to ignore as i didnt agree with the method they suggested yours and the people you mentioned being some of them, like i said before there may be things that you do that i dont agree with but that swings in round abouts, doesnt mean either of us are right or wrong, but i managed to get him to lead the way i wanted to and used the advice from the people whos suggestions and opinions i thought we correct and i agreed with.


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

First, you must be clear on the reason for his refusal to lead; only then can you respond properly to help him. (Seems to me that he's confused as to what you want, being young/untrained, etc.)

All that he has to go on is your "feel", your intention. Your intention must be to* help* him in his life.

People want to *make* their horses do things, as if the horse is rightly a slave. That has no meaning for the horse. The other way is to have a relationship with the horse. Feel of your horse, show him that you want to help him, & he'll appreciate it & start to cooperate.


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

Nina said:


> Hey thanks for all your coments  we got from A to B today without any stops and starts, did it a few times just to make sure it wasnt a fluke and he lead right beside me with no fuss, thanks for all your help.
> 
> For those of you who have been twottering on about leading whilst riding another horse this just goes to show that different ideas do work and no before you ask i did not use a whip i used myself and he lead just fine, suppose it just took repitition. Also your comment about not being experienced enough to use a whip is a load of rubbish a whip is an aid not a beating tool thats all it was going to get used for if need be but obviously doesnt need to be now, also if you find what i wrote hard to understand dont reply!!! And i have actually took alot of valuable information from this post just some i chose to ignore as i didnt agree with the method they suggested yours and the people you mentioned being some of them, like i said before there may be things that you do that i dont agree with but that swings in round abouts, doesnt mean either of us are right or wrong, but i managed to get him to lead the way i wanted to and used the advice from the people whos suggestions and opinions i thought we correct and i agreed with.



I just want to know what the English language ever did to you to make you want to abuse it so badly.
Are you sure it isn't your second language?


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## FTFOTB (Feb 13, 2011)

Nina wrote, "also if you find what i wrote hard to understand dont reply!!!"

Actually, _*you* asked for help_, and many people here offered good advice nicely. There was no need for you to be rude to anyone here whatsoever. And yes, you do write like you're 12, but people were willing to help you anyway, in spite of that. You responded rudely to several people because you didn't like their advice. That's not very nice. You aren't qualified to criticize those whose advice you asked for if you can't manage to do something as simple as leading a horse without difficulty.


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## CanyonCowboy (Apr 30, 2010)

I don't want to hijack the thread but it seems like Nina has "solved" her problem for now. So, I have a philosophical question in follow up to Northern's statement about "slaves" versus "willing partners." I'm not on a soapbox here, I'm interested in opinions.

As I understand horse herd dynamics, a horse has a relatively stable place (sorry, weak pun) within the herd. That horse knows his place in the heirarchy. He essentially blindly obeys the direction of more dominate horses, ignores the directions of less senior horses, and tells lower ranking horses what to do. In effect, each is a "slave" to more dominate horses, and is the "slave master" to lower horses. I was taught to be the more alpha horse, so they will follow my direction. Anthropomorphasizing and hoping for a connection and "cooperation" from the horse seems, well, very anthropomorphic. 

Now a herd will expell a bully, so the alpha leadership must be fair, reasonable, safe from the horse's perspective. Simply being the strongest isn't what makes their leader. But, the good leader doesn't wait for cooperation and a relationship. It's "ask, tell, demand" if you want to be in my herd.

And.... discuss....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Twottering on? How unfortunate that you dismiss ponying out of hand. It's a really good method, and not dangerous IF you have some knowledge, feel, and a responsive lead horse. 

You have discounted the advice of some very accomplished horsepeople in this thread. Marecare especially has a wealth of knowledge and I'm sorry you don't realize that and try to learn from it. 

You don't get far training horses with a closed mind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

wild_spot said:


> Twottering on? How unfortunate that you dismiss ponying out of hand. It's a really good method, and not dangerous IF you have some knowledge, feel, and a responsive lead horse.
> 
> You have discounted the advice of some very accomplished horsepeople in this thread. Marecare especially has a wealth of knowledge and I'm sorry you don't realize that and try to learn from it.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the very kind comment wild_spot.
I really wanted to help and took my shot at it.

As to CC question I believe that what you are saying is not wrong but there is a bit more going on in the social order of a healthy herd.
What I mean by healthy is mentally as well as physical.

There is a shared/collective consciousness to an active herd and they are so tuned into each other.
Yes there are small disagreements and squabbles that are part of the normal hierarchy but each member has a function or job to put it into human terms.
They seem to have a pretty strict seniority system and it is tougher than a longshoreman's union.

So I like to think of it as a strict military chain of command.


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## whiskeynoo (Mar 17, 2010)

Hi nina, have you tried getting some one to walk behind him with a lunge whip, and when he starts to falter get that person to crack the whip behind him or at his heels. or get some one else to lead your other horse and perhaps have your colt on a loose lead, some horses can dig the heels in as soon as they feel the pressure of being pulled.


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## Arksly (Mar 13, 2010)

I just thought of something. Are you at all nervous? You cold could be reading it as "Oh no! She's scared! It can't be safe!" and stops. Are you possibly subconsciously tensing up before your colt stops? I'm just trying to think of anything that might cause him to stop.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Very true CanyonCowboy, The more alpha the horse the more horses they can control and boss around.

And I agree that nina has been quite rude in refusing to do th methods that experienced horse people have offered her. 

I also don't like people who are too sacred to be the leader! Your horse is looking for a leader and if you don't be the leader then they will! Which would mean you would have a bossy and unmanageable horse on your hands.

Nina, your spelling and typing are quite bad, and you should get a trainers help if you cannot train your colt.


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## FTFOTB (Feb 13, 2011)

whiskeynoo said:


> Hi nina, have you tried getting some one to walk behind him with a lunge whip, and when he starts to falter get that person to crack the whip behind him or at his heels. or get some one else to lead your other horse and perhaps have your colt on a loose lead, some horses can dig the heels in as soon as they feel the pressure of being pulled.


Whatever you do, don't do it like this:


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## whiskeynoo (Mar 17, 2010)

Haha yes i seen that video a while back, i was surprised that man got back up! But yes, certainly make sure whoever is behind the colt is at a safe distance!


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Nina said:


> Thank you for your comments, im unsure if you actually read my first post, The colt which I have bought is 2 and has been stuck in a stable for this period of time he had not been handled for this period of time and therfore had no experience at all or familiarity with humans to the point where he was cowar in the corner of the stable bite and try and kick. I find your comments very frustrating as my horse now comes to call will let me brush his full body etc. I lead him arouynd the yard as you said and i lead him to the yard to be brushed this is the only places i take him to and it is inbetween that he stops he will eventually get moving again but i wanted to have suggestions on getting him from a to b without a pause in between. Your comment about getting rid of him because of this matter is absoloute nonsense, im sure if you have horses you will know that they have their own personality and will not do what you want them to do all of the time. i would not howerver tell you to get rid of them so I suggest you stop thowing such ridicolous comments about. As i said I lead my horse around the yard where is is familiar and comfortable, i do not yank on his head like the idot on the photo as that will just make him worse. I went to college for 3 years to study equine and there behaviour and am very good friends with a farrier and vet who is his own company and they cannot belive the difference in him in such a short time, i was asking for advice not childish comments such as you dont know what your doing and get rid. If only you thought before you speak or ask for information you would have realised this and considering how much i have done to bring him round i hope your realise now how pathectic your little commment sounded and also this is what this forum is about helping people who have queries or would like some advice on horses, if all you have to say is get rid, i thin. your in the wrong place.:evil:


Okay, so frustrated as you are, I will put out some of my frustration for you to mull over as well. You came here asking for advise on a problem with the horse...there are horse trainers here; trainers who have trained, not just one, or two horses, but hundreds...and horses from all sorts of backgrounds; I myself like taking in previously abused, or neglected ones, but also like breaking in unhandled babies as well. When you ask for advise on a forum, where there is a TON of different backgrounds of folks you will get varied opinions, and trust me (atleast myself speaking) I AM NOT trying to be rude, I am telling it how I see it, from what I've read of your experiences (what you've done, what's worked, not, etc), and from what I've experienced outside of this web forum in the training world. 

Now, back to the horse: So what, horse is 2 years old. Any trainer can deal with a young horse of any age and get him going quite quickly, without fear, or harshness. AGE IS NOT THE FACTOR here. Neither is background, breed, or his 'history'. Inexperience on your part is. Book learning does not equate experience to get you to the finish line...you NEED help, one on one help with this horse, period; that is what I was trying to convey in my original post, although you took badly, and I am sorry for that. You need to gain your horse's respect, then he will trust you in all other aspects...it really cannot be the other way around. 

Your horse needs you to be his leader; regardless of how far he seems to have come, he still has a long ways to go; which is why he still stops, and refuses to go forward, rears, backs up etc...he DOES NOT understand what you want from him, period. You might think he does, because he follows you sometimes, but it is obvious from his behavior that, he really does not. 

You need to figure out how to disengage his hip, yield his forequarters, back him on YOUR command, etc...ie, he needs to learn that YOU control his feet...then and only then will he learn that he needs to follow your lead each and every time. Since you said that other posters suggestions on how to do these things don't work, maybe you can find some dvd's or good youtube videos on those, so you can visualise where you need to be, TO show him what you want...it can be hard to explain with words, and easier with 'pictures' so to speak. Round penning can be great to help unstick those feet too, and since he is 2, you shouldn't have to worry 'as much' about joint or muscle damage with some light round penning.


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

Alpha is not same as a bully, *we're agreed. *

The true alpha/leader earns his spot moment-to-moment by having the most wisdom to ensure the safety/wellbeing of the herd, *we're agreed.*

The horses are tuned into each other, as mentioned, *we're agreed*.

They work out their places in the herd hierarchy by this attunement, *we're agreed.*

Horses tune into whether one has the wisdom to lead, *we're agreed.*

So, the human gaining the wisdom to be a help to his horse rather than a bully is what's meaningful to the horse. There's no anthropomorphizing there, nor falsification of the facts.


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## FTFOTB (Feb 13, 2011)

Ray MacDonald said:


> I also don't like people who are too sacred to be the leader! Your horse is looking for a leader and if you don't be the leader then they will! Which would mean you would have a bossy and unmanageable horse on your hands.


Absolutely! The problem is, when something goes wrong, the inexperienced person is so quick to blame the horse for the problem. "Look what my stupid horse did"...or, "This horse won't do _____." 

99.9% of the time, it's the inexperience of the handler, and why there are so many disrespectful horses out there.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Yes! FTFOTB! They never look at the whole picture, just wondering why their horse is being "bad".

Northern- What is the difference between being alpha or being a bully? How do you bully a horse?


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

Ray MacDonald said:


> Northern- What is the difference between being alpha or being a bully? How do you bully a horse?


You bully a horse by losing/never having in the first place a right intention toward him, which is to* help* him in his entire life.

As we've discussed, when a person has no intention of helping the horse, the horse is superlative at sensing that lack, & then the horse will take over for maintaining his own survival/wellbeing. Sometimes, the horse will choose to "knuckle under", having considered that doing so is in his best interest.


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## FTFOTB (Feb 13, 2011)

Northern said:


> You bully a horse by losing/never having in the first place a right intention toward him, which is to* help* him in his entire life.
> 
> As we've discussed, when a person has no intention of helping the horse, the horse is superlative at sensing that lack, & then the horse will take over for maintaining his own survival/wellbeing. Sometimes, the horse will choose to "knuckle under", having considered that doing so is in his best interest.


This is a great explanation! They also will sense when you're not being "fair", especially when handling stallions. That is bullying, to _them_.


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

Ray MacDonald said:


> Northern- What is the difference between being alpha or being a bully? How do you bully a horse?


same difference between fear and respect, assertion and agression etc.

the difference may seem small to us humans, but to horses it means everything. it's the difference between life and death to horses as herd animals, as the respected one will be accepted as the leader of the herd, and his/her safety will be paramount for the herds overall survival, whereas the feared one will be shunned within the herd, excluded from the herd, or killed by herd alphas.


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## Nina (Feb 12, 2011)

Hey I dunno if you read my post about 3 pages ago but he leads fine now :s also i am a geordie this is how we talk, sorry if you dont understand my citys slang but its where i was brought up and it is english its just my citys way of talking, I have actually toned it down quite alot so that you could understand mainly what i was saying. I cant help where I come from and it is a city in England UK, look us up and you will probably realise what we talk like and find it rather hard to get the accent. I also do appriciate everones comments and i did not intend to sound rude, i didnt realise that saying to someone that i do not agree with there comment was a bad thing as we are pretty upfront here and dont find this a bad thing so sorry if i offended, i do find someone saying i talk like a 12 year old offensive as I am infact 22, and this is how we talk here, cant help being from different places having different accents and different ways of putting words together, sorry an all and i agree with chris on what he is saying horses live in a heard and the whole intention is to make your horse realise your leader of a pack you will never see a horse which isnt leader try to get out the leaders dish as they would get a kick up the ***, but this isnt bullying this is just keeping the other horse straight, again sorry if you do not understand how we up here put sentences together and if there is something ive written you have found offensive i didnt mean to and appologies


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## slc (Jan 30, 2011)

I think it is a good idea not to make leading a horse contain too many complex philosophical issues.

This is usually a result of people handling the horse, getting into sloppy habits.

Numero Uno. Do not lead the horse by walking in front of it and trying to pull it along, stay at the shoulder, or at worst, a little forward of the shoulder. NEVER get back by where the saddle or girth goes. Stay in your zone. 

Do not walk in front of the horse. It is a good way to get mowed down if something goes wrong, but it also makes the horse walk slower. 

Get a whip that is about 4 feet long and not too floppy of a whip (not a longe whip). Put it in your left hand, pointing back.

Put the end of the lead rope in your left hand, in loops, put your hand around the loops. Hold the lead shank about 12-18 inches from the horse's chin, with the left hand.

Cluck and start walking. If the horse does not move when you cluck, flick the whip a little bit so it just touches the horse on the hind leg. 

If the horse leaps, runs or trots forward, say 'GOOD BOY' and pat the horse. If he goes too fast, he get sort of go around you in a little circle, you stay in position near his shoulder. 

If all he does is swing his hind quarters away, do this work along a fence, so he cannot swing his hind quarters away. 

No matter if he reacts TOO MUCH to the whip, if he reacts by moving up and moving quicker, even A LITTLE, praise. Pat him and say 'Good boy'.

Reorganize, cluck and walk ahead. If the horse stops, cluck and then flick with the whip immediately if he does not immediately move up. No one second, two second, three second thing. Cluck - instantaneously those feet more or you use your whip. Your goal is that he will start to move his feet the second you cluck.

If you are trying to get a horse to move when he is halted and he does not want to move, get in position, cluck, use your whip.

If the horse just kicks at the whip or just shifts his rear sideways, use it a weee bit harder.

When a horse is being led it is time to pay attention. It is business. He walks when his handler walks. If he does not he gets a simple, short, obvious, clear - punishment. Not a loss of temper, not hysterics, not a blind beating - one quick flick of the whip, just enough to make him move and not one iota more.

Another very, very old trick, is that if a horse refuses to move, you start walking to the left, turming his head and neck to the left, and then very quickly, once he just starts to pick up a front foot, you walk very sharply to the right, and that gets his front feet moving again, and then you walk forward.

Be clear and consistent in what you want. Use a simple, direct, logical way of letting the horse know what you do or don't want him to do. Stay calm, don't overdo. Don't try to be so 'kind' or complicated that even a nobel prize winner in physics couldn't tell what you want.


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## CanyonCowboy (Apr 30, 2010)

Nina said:


> Hey I dunno if you read my post about 3 pages ago but he leads fine now :s also i am a geordie this is how we talk, sorry if you dont understand my citys slang but its where i was brought up and it is english its just my citys way of talking, I have actually toned it down quite alot so that you could understand mainly what i was saying. I cant help where I come from and it is a city in England UK, look us up and you will probably realise what we talk like and find it rather hard to get the accent. I also do appriciate everones comments and i did not intend to sound rude, i didnt realise that saying to someone that i do not agree with there comment was a bad thing as we are pretty upfront here and dont find this a bad thing so sorry if i offended, i do find someone saying i talk like a 12 year old offensive as I am infact 22, and this is how we talk here, cant help being from different places having different accents and different ways of putting words together, sorry an all and i agree with chris on what he is saying horses live in a heard and the whole intention is to make your horse realise your leader of a pack you will never see a horse which isnt leader try to get out the leaders dish as they would get a kick up the ***, but this isnt bullying this is just keeping the other horse straight, again sorry if you do not understand how we up here put sentences together and if there is something ive written you have found offensive i didnt mean to and appologies


 
Nina, no one is attacking you for a regional accent. They were asking because your writing is so difficult to understand people (me included) thought you might not have English as your primary language. There isn't a period in your entire post. Also, you didn't say you just disagreed with the advice, you said the advice was "absolute nonsense", you also told the poster to "stop throwing such ridiculous comments around," and that you weren't looking for "childish comments." It isn't just how you cobble words together, but how you spell. From the post above:

citys = city's
realise = realize x3
your = you're (although used correctly earlier in sentence) x2
appriciate = appreciate
there = their x2
infact = in fact
sorry an all = ?
heard = herd
never see a horse which isnt leader try to get out the leaders dish as they would get a kick up the *** = never seen a horse which isn't the leader try to get food out of the leaders dish as they would ....
appologies = apologize

If we can't understand your question, we can't offer help. It isn't a dialect, it's mis-spelling. Anyway, best of luck with your colt; I'm going to go riding.


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

Just have to say this but in Ireland and the uk ( Could be more places too ) Realise is spelt just the way I spelt it XD Same with apologise but I understand she spelt that wrong.



I noticed some people were telling her to get rid of her horse because she cannot lead him?! Well that advice is stupid and she is right for saying that. I could not lead my horse when I got her. She did the exact same thing as this. But now she will walk with me.


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## Nina (Feb 12, 2011)

Wheyyy someone that understands me  thank god for that, its nice to have someone that is closer to home. Its really irritating that i keep getting English lessons from people that dont live in England hahaha have to say someone that knows how English people actually spell is a great thing  Also i cant really be arsed to be putting commas and full stops in here there and everywhere do enough of that at work, its nice to be lazy and not have to lol.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

wild_spot said:


> Twottering on? How unfortunate that you dismiss ponying out of hand. It's a really good method, and not dangerous IF you have some knowledge, feel, and a responsive lead horse.
> 
> You have discounted the advice of some very accomplished horsepeople in this thread. Marecare especially has a wealth of knowledge and I'm sorry you don't realize that and try to learn from it.
> 
> ...


SOME methods work with SOME horses and people - some do not.

I also disagreed with what marecare is saying. I have been breeding, raising, starting, riding, competing, etc for more years than I care to admit.

I don't like to jump in and tell a person how to do something. I like to take the step back and gather a bit more information before attempting to tell someone the 'only' way something will be resolved.


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## Nina (Feb 12, 2011)

Thanks mls  its so refreshing to have someone make a valid point and not just someone commenting on my spelling haha dont know if these people work but i work in an office where im not really supposed to go on the net so checking for spelling and punctuation is the last thing on my mind, its more flee your fingers around the keyboard and send before you get caught lol. Like you said some things work for some people and others it doesnt. For myself I personally think it would be rather dangerous as I dont have a pen and my mare is an x race horse and as soon as I get on she wants to go. I personally thought it would be dangerous to lead my other horse behind incase he stopped and she didnt. I also wanted him to follow me not my other horse so thought it defeated the point of getting him to lead from A to B with me.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

We should start an entire thread on the most commonly found mispellings on the forum. I know what it's like to be too lazy to not correct every error. I do it all the time. However, I am amazed at how many oddly spelled words I encounter, and it takes just as much energy to type a mispelled word, over and over, as it does to do it right in the first place. 
For example "heard" for herd. And "there" for their. Your for You're. Reign for rein and on and on. It's amusing and a little scary for the future of the English language.
Not any comment on reagionalisms. I sometimes am puzzled by words posted by Aussies or Brits but I figure my use of English must come off "funky" to them from time to time.


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

mls said:


> SOME methods work with SOME horses and people - some do not.
> 
> I* also disagreed with what marecare is saying. *I have been breeding, raising, starting, riding, competing, etc for more years than I care to admit.
> 
> I don't like to jump in and tell a person how to do something. I like to take the step back and gather a bit more information before attempting to tell someone the 'only' way something will be resolved.



I believe that I started out posting on this thread with a general disclaimer that it is just one way to solve the problem and not* THE WAY!*

This is a discussion and maybe you could share with me what you disagree about and maybe show some pictures of better ways of doing things.


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## Nina (Feb 12, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> We should start an entire thread on the most commonly found mispellings on the forum. I know what it's like to be too lazy to not correct every error. I do it all the time. However, I am amazed at how many oddly spelled words I encounter, and it takes just as much energy to type a mispelled word, over and over, as it does to do it right in the first place.
> For example "heard" for herd. And "there" for their. Your for You're. Reign for rein and on and on. It's amusing and a little scary for the future of the English language.
> Not any comment on reagionalisms. I sometimes am puzzled by words posted by Aussies or Brits but I figure my use of English must come off "funky" to them from time to time.


 
Love it, we never say funky over here, really like the word and yeah some things that you folk say does sound pretty FUNKY to me too, Im a brit and I probably should pay more attention to the way i spell when im typing. For Example i should have said I am British or I'm a Brit, but i mean does it really make a difference cos I couldnt give a rats *** lol, im sure everyone knows what I am trying to say, like the other guy who thought it important to pick out every spelling mistake that Ive written and every sentence he apparently didnt understand but seemed to translate it perfectly and then post it all haha I mean seriously get a life mate or something to fill the time that you seem to have to read through peoples posts and pick out every spelling mistake theyve made and every full stop theve missed lol. Oh sorry ill get wrong for that its THEY,VE...i mean howay Picky Vicky.

Btw just in case it takes you half your precious time to figure out Howay means come on to us Geordies!!!


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## Nina (Feb 12, 2011)

Nina said:


> Thanks mls  its so refreshing to have someone make a valid point and not just someone commenting on my spelling haha dont know if these people work but i work in an office where im not really supposed to go on the net so checking for spelling and punctuation is the last thing on my mind, its more flee your fingers around the keyboard and send before you get caught lol. Like you said some things work for some people and others it doesnt. For myself I personally think it would be rather dangerous as I dont have a pen and my mare is an x race horse and as soon as I get on she wants to go. I personally thought it would be dangerous to lead my other horse behind incase he stopped and she didnt. I also wanted him to follow me not my other horse so thought it defeated the point of getting him to lead from A to B with me.


 

And I think this is a pretty good reason why not to do this (see above) and as for you saying its lack of experience I am far from it, along with if i may say, mls. I actually think it is an experienced decision to make to not do this with my horses as it could end u with someone aka me getting hurt. This doesnt however mean it wont work on other horses which im sure it has and will for years to come but as mls and myself have said not every training method works with every horse.

I dont really feel this needs a picture, think it explains itself really!!


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## FTFOTB (Feb 13, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> We should start an entire thread on the most commonly found mispellings on the forum. I know what it's like to be too lazy to not correct every error. I do it all the time. However, I am amazed at how many oddly spelled words I encounter, and it takes just as much energy to type a mispelled word, over and over, as it does to do it right in the first place.
> For example "heard" for herd. And "there" for their. Your for You're. Reign for rein and on and on. It's amusing and a little scary for the future of the English language.
> Not any comment on reagionalisms. I sometimes am puzzled by words posted by Aussies or Brits but I figure my use of English must come off "funky" to them from time to time.


Amen! I'll contribute! Haha. 

I, too, am appalled at the illiteracy we see today...especially among the young people who supposedly made it all the way through college. How did that happen? Like you, I have no problem understanding those from other countries, or different dialects, or even slang. Not a problem at all. It's the 12-year-old text-speak junk, combined with many misspelled/misused words, along with a bad attitude, that I have a real issue with. That attitude that challenges and criticizes the much more educated and experienced among us is just sad. _Why do they even ask in the first place if they already know it all by the age of 20?_


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## Nina (Feb 12, 2011)

FTFOTB said:


> Amen! I'll contribute! Haha.
> 
> I, too, am appalled at the illiteracy we see today...especially among the young people who supposedly made it all the way through college. How did that happen? Like you, I have no problem understanding those from other countries, or different dialects, or even slang. Not a problem at all. It's the 12-year-old text-speak junk, combined with many misspelled/misused words, along with a bad attitude, that I have a real issue with. That attitude that challenges and criticizes the much more educated and experienced among us is just sad. _Why do they even ask in the first place if they already know it all by the age of 20?_


 
If this is the case then maybe you could do a Micheal Jackson and start with the man in the Mirror as it is Criticises not criticizes!!!! See it is rather irritating when someone points out every single mistake you make as it quite frankly doesnt really matter!!!


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

Nina said:


> Love it, we never say funky over here, really like the word and yeah some things that you folk say does sound pretty FUNKY to me too, Im a brit and I probably should pay more attention to the way i spell when im typing. For Example i should have said I am British or I'm a Brit, but i mean does it really make a difference cos I couldnt give a rats *** lol, im sure everyone knows what I am trying to say, like the other guy who thought it important to pick out every spelling mistake that Ive written and every sentence he apparently didnt understand but seemed to translate it perfectly and then post it all haha I mean seriously get a life mate or something to fill the time that you seem to have to read through peoples posts and pick out every spelling mistake theyve made and every full stop theve missed lol. Oh sorry ill get wrong for that its THEY,VE...i mean howay Picky Vicky.
> 
> Btw just in case it takes you half your precious time to figure Howay out it means come on to us Geordies!!!



The following post is offered in humor and to point out that we are talking to people all over the world and need to stress clarity to be understood and for help to be given.

F I wer tu git rit down and git all local and cow boy wit the slang and twang youall wood haf a heck of a time undestandin wut I'm tryen to say and might git allll confussed.shucks..Ha!

We all have regions that we are from and there are local customs and ways of saying things.


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## FTFOTB (Feb 13, 2011)

Marecare said:


> The following post is offered in humor and to point out that we are talking to people all over the world and need to stress clarity to be understood and for help to be given.
> 
> F I wer tu git rit down and git all local and cow boy wit the slang and twang youall wood haf a heck of a time undestandin wut I'm tryen to say and might git allll confussed.shucks..Ha!
> 
> We all have regions that we are from and there are local customs and ways of saying things.


HAHAHAHAHA! That's great!


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## Nina (Feb 12, 2011)

not at all if you were to get all down and local with me it still wouldnt make any difference as i still understood what you said there without any extra concentrating needed. I just wouldnt feel the need to correct you and make it perfect english as I wouldnt want to offend you or the place you come from. But i suppose alot of people dont see this as a problem and would rather spend there time quoting every bit of slang or misspelt word youve written.


ITS CALLED HAVING A LITTLE BIT OF RESPECT FOR OTHERS!!!!


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## FTFOTB (Feb 13, 2011)

In real life, I have a lot of experienced horse friends, trainers, breeders, etc. who aren't the best spellers. It really doesn't matter too much because I know they're pretty smart about their horses, and it's not difficult to catch the meaning of what they write. Being the experienced horse handlers that they are, they wouldn't think of posting on a public forum, panicking about their horse stopping while leading, and asking for help with !!!!!!!!!!, then when they get offered some really great methods to try, they wouldn't say, "u r jus stupid 4 making fun of me cuz im from a diff county and i no wut im doin an i dont want orneed ur help." Because that's how this thread reads to me. It looked to me like most of us want to help, but how can we when presented with _that_?


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## FTFOTB (Feb 13, 2011)

Nina said:


> ITS CALLED HAVING A LITTLE BIT OF RESPECT FOR OTHERS!!!!


You should practice what you preach.


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## Nina (Feb 12, 2011)

FTFOTB said:


> In real life, I have a lot of experienced horse friends, trainers, breeders, etc. who aren't the best spellers. It really doesn't matter too much because I know they're pretty smart about their horses, and it's not difficult to catch the meaning of what they write. Being the experienced horse handlers that they are, they wouldn't think of posting on a public forum, panicking about their horse stopping while leading, and asking for help with !!!!!!!!!!, then when they get offered some really great methods to try, they wouldn't say, "u r jus stupid 4 making fun of me cuz im from a diff county and i no wut im doin an i dont want orneed ur help." Because that's how this thread reads to me. It looked to me like most of us want to help, but how can we when presented with _that_?


I actually asked for advice to help me along the way to rectify the problem which now does not exist. The answer given to me was to SELL MY HORSE, correct me if im wrong but this is not a solution and yes I did take offence at it. The point I was trying to make is that i do not feel my spelling had anything to do with my horse and I found it rather offensive toward myself and my city that people took great pleasure in correcting every misspelt word id written. On the side of experience you never know it all with horses thats the great thing about them so even if the most experienced horse person in the world was on here i wouldnt think badly against them as everyone likes and wants to learn as much as they can about the animal and i feel this is rather offensive to the people that do post on here from all levels of experience as what you posted pretty much says if your experienced you shouldnt post on here asking for help as you should know it all!!! where as personally i think it is nice to have a forum where people of all levels can share their different experiences. That is my opinion, if yours is different then thats fine but I do not see the point in making posts back and forth about something which in fact has nothing to do with the original post!!!


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## shmurmer4 (Dec 27, 2008)

Time him to a mule for 8 hours a day for a week... by the end of the second day he will walk on a line like a real horse where ever you would like to go


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## Nina (Feb 12, 2011)

shmurmer4 said:


> Time him to a mule for 8 hours a day for a week... by the end of the second day he will walk on a line like a real horse where ever you would like to go


 
Thank you  and i need to get me a mule lol jk


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

Nina said:


> I actually asked for advice to help me along the way to rectify the problem which now does not exist. The answer given to me was to SELL MY HORSE, correct me if im wrong but this is not a solution and yes I did take offence at it. The point I was trying to make is that i do not feel me spelling had anything to do with my horse and I found it rather offensive toward myself and my city that people took great pleasure in correcting every misspelt word id writted. On the side of experience you never know it all with horses thats the great thing about them so even if the most experienced horse person in the world was on here i wouldnt think badly against them as everyone likes and wants to learn as much as they can about the animal and i feel this is rather offensive to the people that do post on here from all levels of experience as what you posted pretty much says if your experienced you shouldnt post on here asking for help as you should know it all!!! where as personally i think it is nice to have a forum where people of all levels can share their different experiences. That is my opinion, if yours is different then thats fine but I do not see the point in making posts back and forth about something which in fact has nothing to do with the original post!!!



Back to the OP then.

I just went out and picked up 22 head of horses that were turned out in several large pastures and brought them in due to a very large rain storm we are having here now.

I picked up the older or senior horse and let one of two other follow us back to the pens where they can get dry from the rain.
They follow along quietly and with a very relaxed mood knowing that their life will soon be a bit better.
They are use to the routine and in many cases even which pen is the right one.

Old horses,young horses,Paints and solids just follow along because they....

Wait for it.....

*Know where we are going and it has purpose.*


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## Nina (Feb 12, 2011)

Thats great, pleased it worked for you, sounds like a bit of a hand full  sorry to hear about the storm. What is it that you do with your horses over there, by that i mean do you breed, event, school etc Sounds like you have your hands full all of the time, must be fun.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> SOME methods work with SOME horses and people - some do not.


Can you point out where I mentioned that I thought this would work with the OP's horse??? Or where I said it will woprk for all horses???

I am pretty sure I said it is a good method and I am sad to hear someone dismissing it out of hand as being dangerous and useless. Very different to what you read apparently!


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## FTFOTB (Feb 13, 2011)

Nina said:


> I actually asked for advice to help me along the way to rectify the problem which now does not exist. The answer given to me was to SELL MY HORSE, correct me if im wrong but this is not a solution and yes I did take offence at it.


See, this is where the thinking has gone astray...you believe, out of all of the responses here, that the ONLY answer was to _sell your horse_. Only a couple of people suggested that. I didn't tell you to sell your horse. In fact, I pointed out several people who gave you some _great_ advice, none of which was to sell your horse. You chose to respond to those methods with rudeness. That is the problem, more so than your grammar and spelling errors. The grammar and spelling errors only made your responses (to those willing to share something that might help you) even worse, and presented a pretty bad overall picture of you. 

Many mentioned (including you), that not every method will work for all horses. Some methods _do_ work for most horses, and some people aren't comfortable using certain methods. You have to find what works for you, out of all the ones presented here. That's the beauty of a forum like this - you get to pick and choose which you would like to try. The stuff you don't agree with? It's pretty simple - you don't have do it. But keep in mind, as was mentioned earlier - there are many horsemen here that are quite knowledgeable, and it would do you a world of good to at least consider their advice. Even if they don't live in England.


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

Nina said:


> Thats great, pleased it worked for you, sounds like a bit of a hand full  sorry to hear about the storm.* What is it that you do with your horses over there, by that i mean do you breed,* event, school etc Sounds like you have your hands full all of the time, must be fun.



Most of the horses that I have here are for ranching and cattle work.
Maybe some trail riding and also a few reiners.
We teach this type of riding here and in the past bred for this type of stock horse.
We start and train horses and also try and help folks that have problems with the horse that they own.
We run a boarding facility and sell a few horses each year.
Here is one of our students working some cattle.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Marecare,

I find your posts and descriptions of ranch work and training methods fascinating. What I wouldn't give to spend some time learning at your place. I could learn so much from you, and I am at a place where I would really benefit from it, too.

This forum is wonderful for us Suburban horsepeople in that we do have some real ranch folks to share their tried and true methods.
I only want to very gently remind you that for some people, for quite a few people, they just aren't going to be able to take advantage of the methods. They may benefit from keeping it in their mind to work WITH the horse's instinct to follow a lead horse, but they may not actually be able to do what you do, such as actually pony their horse. So, they may feel somehow a bit challenged or upset that you are asking them to do something that is not feasible. 
I think it's important to remember the wide variety of horse keeping situaltions we have here and taylor our advice to what is presented in each situation.

I find quite a few posts where someone asks about gettting an outline, and then they receive alot of advice that an outline is not what they want, it's true collection. Well, that may be true but since we cannot be there to teach like a classical dressage teacher, we need to give advice that is toned down to a place where THAT person in THAT place might actually understand it and be able to put it into action, step by step. If I just say all the theories of classical dressage regarding collection, it is way over their head, at that point in their training. I need to try to put things where the reader can get something out of it. That is not meant to sound condescending. Just the way it is.

As for Safety, I know many posters feel it's important not to mince words because they see a bad situation brewing and somebody's gonna get hurt. That's when we just have to say it like it is and risk hurting feelings.

Lastly
I am uncomfortable with the level of venom I see in some of these posts. This is a really good forum. We're FAMILY here, so let's play nice, ok?


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

tinyliny,
I feel that you are now giving me some very good advice and sometimes think everyone lives on a ranch and has 5000 acres out their back door.

Ranch life is pretty hard at times and we try to solve problems with the simplest fix we can find and try to stay as safe as we can.
I have had a lot of help from the old timers that came before.

The kids that grow up here like the one I posted a picture of are pretty tough too I guess.

I sometimes forget that I might be talking to someone that has never been in the wide open.

Thank you for the perspective.

This is my arena.....


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Shazam! I wanna be there! What time is dinner?


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Nina said:


> I actually asked for advice to help me along the way to rectify the problem which now does not exist. The answer given to me was to SELL MY HORSE, correct me if im wrong but this is not a solution QUOTE]
> 
> I made that 'suggestion' after reading through several posts of yours prior to responding of back and forth discussiong between you and other posters 'discussing' what you had tried, what had worked, what didn't, etc, etc...there were suggestions given that SHOULD have worked if they really were implemented properly, so my perception on the situation is that you were probably not quite experienced to break in a young horse yet, especially one with his background, so yes, I suggested selling, or finding someone to work with you one one one...I love how you left that part out of my original response to you. As a trainer, I want both horse and owner to remain safe...which is why I suggested what I did due to what I read here.
> 
> At any rate I'm glad you seem to have worked through his little stubborn streak, and I hope you can continue to progress.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Marecare, I would love to come visit you someday. You have access to some beautiful country out there. My Dad spent quite a bit of time out there (Sacramento area, I think) working for a rancher and a hackamore reinsman by the name of Sid Mails (sp?).


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

smrobs said:


> Marecare, I would love to come visit you someday. You have access to some beautiful country out there. My Dad spent quite a bit of time out there (Sacramento area, I think) working for a rancher and a hackamore reinsman by the name of Sid Mails (sp?).


I never had the pleasure of meeting the gentleman and sorry that I did not.

You are welcome to come on by any time and help me waste the day away riding horses.


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