# Double-jointed bits



## charliBum (Jan 7, 2009)

its because some horses have low pallates and when a single jointed bit is used it can even cut the roof of the mouth, I had this problem with my horse as he has a very small mouth. 

Single jointed bit, when the pressure is applied the part were it joins hits the roof of the mouth

double jointed bits sit nicly around the tounge and evenly ditribute pressure without hurting the roof of the mouth


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

Is it an less severe? I'd think so...


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## drafteventer (Jul 6, 2009)

I use an eggbut snaffle, I can't help much ^^'.
But cool picture charliBum


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

I'm using a french link right now on a horse new to bits. The double jointed bit applies more pressure to the tongue, which is better for starting out. After the horse gets used to it and becomes more "broke" meaning learns to go off the leg, seat etc. you move up to a bit that applies more bar pressure. That would be either a solid mouthpiece with tongue relief or a single break snaffle. 
A young inexpeireinced horse is really going to have a fit with bar pressure as its first introduction to a bit. The tongue pressure is much easier for them to accept. Does that make sense?

This is all in exception to the horse like pictured above. That comes down to the conformation of the horses mouth.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

charliBum said:


> its because some horses have low pallates


Yes, double-jointed bits are better for horses with low palettes, but that's NOT the reason anyone here has given for using them. They say it's because the bits are less severe. I beg to differ since the tongue is one of the most sensitive parts of the body.

It seems to me that beliefs about bits change like fashion. Nobody actually knows the truth because nobody is approaching the matter scientifically.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

How do you think the middle joint pushes down on the tongue? It would have to fold in half inverted to put downward pressure on the tongue. It sits _across_ the tongue, and puts generalised pressure across the tongue, but absolutely nothing like poking down on your tongue with a finger. Have you ever put a bit in your mouth? I have, and I would definately prefer the double jointed bit over a single jointed bit.

Double jointed bits still put pressure on the bars of the mouth, all bits do. It just ALSO generalises pressure over the tongue instead of hitting the roof of the mouth.


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

I prefer a solid mouthpiece. My ultimate goal is to get a horse in a solid mouth curb bit. All bits are going to cause discomfort/pain to the horse. I guess it comes down to degrees of discomfort. Also a bit that is made up of 2 pieces and jointed in the middle, when pressure is applied its going to break in the middle so more contact with the bars is made. 
If the bit is 3 pieces and pressure is applied, its going to break around the tongue and less pressure is going to be placed on the bars. Is just the laws of physical mechanics. 
I have friends who believe a horse should be started in what its going to be ridden in. They start everyone in curb. I like working my way up to it, but thats where I'm going to finish. I don't particularly like snaffle bits. I want to get them out of it asap.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Vidaloco said:


> Also a bit that is made up of 2 pieces and jointed in the middle, when pressure is applied its going to break in the middle so more contact with the bars is made.
> If the bit is 3 pieces and pressure is applied, its going to break around the tongue and less pressure is going to be placed on the bars.


I don't think that's right, Maureen. There is always the same contact with the bars. 

All bits contact the bars pretty much the same way. That, of course assumes that the double joined, or single joined have the same diameter, material, leverage, etc as each other. So identical bits with the only difference being single or double joined should affect the bars in the same way - it is how they affect the tongue and pallet that makes the difference.

Why the double joined bit is less sever then the single is that the pallet is much more sensitive then the tongue and that is what the singe is make to affect while the double affects the tongue.


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

Really Bill? It seems mechanically anyway that something that is broken in 3 pieces isn't going to apply as much pressure on the ends (bars) as something that is broken in the middle. You mean to tell me I'm wrong? :wink::lol::shock:


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## Jake and Dai (Aug 15, 2008)

So then, does a single jointed snaffle *always* touch the palate? Does it depend on the size and shape of the horses mouth?

I'm trying to sort this all out in my head and those pics above did help. I'm assuming that with a light contact the single doesn't connect with the palate, but what about when your horse is a bit of a puller or leans on the bit? 

I know that needs to be worked out in training (using seat & legs), but what would be the better bit to use in that situation while you're working through it?


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

I keep going over it in my head and I think I'm right. Any Physics majors out there??? :shock:


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## Jake and Dai (Aug 15, 2008)

No physics major here but still going through it in my head. And I'm not sure who I'm agreeing with here...but...

Wouldn't the single jointed bit hit the bars at somewhat of an angle causing more of a pinch effect while the double would press in more of a flat manner?


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

I've confuzzled myself as well :lol: I think it would come down to how long the center piece is, how much pressure is going to placed on the bars. 
Oh dear, now I have to think :evil:


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

ponyboy said:


> *NOT the reason anyone here has given for using them*. They say it's because the bits are less severe.


I wouldn't agree with that. When I started to look for the bits I did lots of research to get the right one to start my youngsters. In particularly there is a lot on Internet about horses with different mouth, how to measure it and how to choose bit according that. My both horses have low palate, so getting the single joint bit sounded unwise to me. So I started with the french link and it worked. I did change french link to Myler on one of them now mostly because I need a different size of the bit and couldn't find french link of that size with all I want in it (such as needed size, D or full cheek, and taste (copper or sweet iron)).


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

jakeanddai said:


> So then, does a single jointed snaffle *always* touch the palate? Does it depend on the size and shape of the horses mouth?


No, it doesn't. It really depends on horse. If you stick a curved finger in horse mouth you can tell whether it has low palate if it touched the roof (?) of the mouth. Both mine do, BTW, and I can tell that by sticking fingers in mouth.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

jakeanddai said:


> .
> 
> Wouldn't the single jointed bit hit the bars at somewhat of an angle causing more of a pinch effect while the double would press in more of a flat manner?


I don't think that there is enough of an angle and the bars are not wide enough to make a difference.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought a full cheek snaffle with keepers was meant to prevent the bit arching up and touching the palette. 

But you see what I mean when it comes to information about bits? With the pressure-measuring pads they have now it would be fairly easy to get a definite answer to all these questions - Just create a mock horse's mouth, get a device that always pulls with the same amount of force and use it to test bits. But no one seems interested in doing that.


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

A full cheek snaffle is having a long full metal cheek piece on the outside of the mouth to keep it from pulling through and for training the horse to give to side pressure. 

To Bill, Tony convinced me you are right. He said the pressure on the bars would be basically the same (or a negligible difference) whether there is one break in the middle or 2 breaks in the bit. We had a great conversation about bar vs tongue pressure. Curb vs snaffle bits.


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## dressagebelle (May 13, 2009)

The dressage trainer I've worked with for the last 5-6 years starts and continues to ride all her horses and her clients horses in a french link loose ring type snaffle, and only switches to a different bit on those horses that are advanced enough to start riding in a double bridle, and even then most of the work is still done in a french link loose ring. It sits in the horse's mouth better, as mentioned before, and is a lot softer on the mouth than a lot of bits, but you do have to keep in mind, that any bit in the wrong hands can become severe and painful. In dressage you like to encourage chewing while the bridles on, and all the horses I've worked with in the french link seemed to like it better than what they were started in originally, if my trainer hadn't started them. I much prefer the french link loose ring, but I do keep an open mind that some horses don't work as well in it as others, based on their mouths, and conformation, and what they were started in ect. I do not believe that there is any "perfect" science to one "perfect" bit for every single horse out there, but there are some bits that just seem to work better for a wider range of horses than others.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

ponyboy said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought a full cheek snaffle with keepers was meant to prevent the bit arching up and touching the palette.
> \


Sorry, that's not the purpose of the keepers, this is a good article concerning full cheek bits and keepers: Full Cheek Snaffle With Bit Keepers 

The keepers stabilize the bit, not prevent it from doing it's job which is to contact the roof of the mouth and to have a nutcracker affect on the horse's tongue.


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