# New weight restrictions on college riding team... opinions?



## horseluver250 (Oct 28, 2009)

I think that is horrible and very discriminating! Why only the hunt team? And why can't they find horses for the riders over 200 pounds??
I am rather small myself, but I'd much rather have a 220 pound rider that is well balanced on my horse than have a 90 pound rider that flops all over my horses back!


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## OdinsOwn (Dec 30, 2009)

Although I guess it was trying to be made for the best interest of the horses, I imagine they should have instituted it for all disciplines if they were that concerned. Even though they won't be jumping in dressage or western...

It seems like a major self esteem downer for any potential riders that may be exempt from riding due to their weight.... Hopefully for the people it does affect it will encourage them to try and get into better physical condition, although I see it doing the opposite in a lot of cases as well. And weight standards aren't always attainable for everyone anyway since not everyone fits into a cookie cutter body type.
Thats very sad


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Rather it's good policy or not it's almost certainly illegal!


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

Yeah, I feel bad for the women who are over 200 lbs because I know there were some on the team when I went to visit the college. I have a feeling it will be extended to the other teams as well because it would be kind of unfair if they didn't.

Still excited to be on the team though!

It's hard to get donated horses that aren't older, so I can kind of understand it in that respect. And it's not like they are just dumping the people that can't make weight. They get them with a trainer, a meal plan, and try to make it work however they can.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

I think it is only fair. It is an athletic team after all and they are representing the school. And they aren't saying you can't ride period, they have a trainer you can meet with to help you meet the requirements. And the weigh ins are private, so no one has to know you didn't meet the requirements. My verdict: I agree with the rule.

Even if it is technically not legal and discriminating, they can always use the BMI and make it a required part of the physical that is necessary to be on the team(which will still rule out a good deal if not all of the riders that would be affected by the 200lb rule), they did this at my highschool with every athletic team, and it was very legal...


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

^ That's what I think, too Honeysuga. 

They are old horses with several different riders a day. I think they are just trying to get their riders to think of themselves as athletes more.


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## OdinsOwn (Dec 30, 2009)

In that case then maybe they should institute the same nutritional and training guidelines for all members of the team regardless of current body condition if they haven't already. Someone can be very tiny and every bit not as healthy as someone who is larger.


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

That's true, Odin's Own. Maybe they will start doing that to make it an even playing field.

Just found out that it DOES apply to the western and dressage teams as well.


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## horseluver250 (Oct 28, 2009)

Just wondering, are there any requirements besides just weight? (like height/weight ratios) What would they do if a very tall muscular man wanted to ride? I know some men who easily clear 200 pounds and are not "fat". Would they be required to loose their muscle mass in order to ride?


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

^ on the actual sheet, they have a BMI chart and a height/weight chart. But it doesn't say that you have to be within your height/weight chart to be on the team, just under 200 lbs.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

It certainly seems like it'd be a problem for a good many men. I'm 6 ft and about 200 lbs, and not fat by any definition. (Other than stupid BMI, which doesn't account for people who weight train.) I might, if I really worked at it, get down to about 190, but then there are quite a few guys taller than I am.


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## shadowanne (Jan 7, 2010)

I think it's a good idea, it is an athletic sport after all. I can also understand the weight bearing on the horses. Whether a horse can carry 200+ lbs or not isn't an issue but rather how often is that horse required to carry that weight and under what circumstances, ie in demanding performance or leisurely trail ride.

I can see there being an issue about people who are fit but still over 200lbs - but perhaps if it is about the horse, there's not getting around that. I'm pretty sure teams can discriminate against anyone they want - the fact that one would have to try out is discriminatory in itself - which is defined in nearly every competitive sport.


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## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

Wow. VERY interesting topic! 

I'm curious, how is this illegal? Is there a law that says that in sports you can't discriminate against certain weights? 

If someone said, You're too heavy to be my secretary. I would consider that discrimination. If someone said, I don't have the resources (meaning, horses big enough) to accommodate a person your size? I don't know. Airplane seats are pretty small. Some people have to buy 2 to fit. Is that discrimination that only a certain size can fit into the seat? This is an athletic program. The team in our state is NCAA, they don't allow men to join the team, and b/c they consider riders "athletes" you have to run a mile under a certain number of minutes. I can ride 6 horses a day without a batting an eye, but I doubt I can make the running requirement! (i could not run to save my life..) Is that discrimination?

Teams have limited resources and you have to think about the well being /longevity of the horse. Sometimes it's not as easy as "find a bigger horse". I run a lesson program. Beginner horses are hard to find. Big beginner horses are even harder. Believe me. Plus, most are donated to schools b/c of unsoundness. - back, hocks, legs, etc. I think it's good to consider their future soundness and keep them from overstraining themselves. 

I'm not entirely against this rule. The problem is that "200 lbs" is a black and white number and doesn't offer any leeway for say, the 210 very fit excellent still rider who may be a huge asset to the team. I don't know.


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## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

eventerdrew said:


> I looked at the roster for next season (not on it yet, but hopefully will be) and the numbers are significantly down. I can't help but wonder if it is because of this new rule. This new rule also applies to the people taking riding classes as a part of their major.



I would doubt numbers are down b/c of the rule about weight. In my experience the over 200 lb rider is more the exception then the rule. We didn't have this rule in my college and I doubt there were many (if any) riders over 200, and that included the men. Then again, we only had huntseat riders, maybe that matters? don't know.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

kevinshorses said:


> Rather it's good policy or not it's almost certainly illegal!


 
Why would it be illegal? It's for the safety of the person and the well being of the horse. These teams travel. Not all locations have horses built or conditoned to handle the work load for an all day - or two day show.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

It's discrimination based on a persons physical build. I am 6'8 and have never been under 200 lbs since I was in the eigth grade. I have been in excellent shape and never damaged a horse with my wieght as I ride balanced but under this policy not only me but many men are excluded from being on the equestrian team due to size. It doesn't bother me and i would never sue but you can bet someone will.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

I think the "No one over 200 lbs." rule is rather arbitrary, because there _are_ good riders over 200 lbs. Men usually, because they tend to be taller and weigh more than women.

I think if you have a horse who can handle a _competent _200+ lb. rider, where's the issue?

I see what this team is trying to accomplish, though. Asking an older horse to work multiple times a day with bad, 90 lb. riders is easier on them than asking them to cart around bad, 200 lb. riders.

This is for the horses' well being, not discriminatory against the heavier riders.

I tend to be more on the 'fluffy' side these days, but I'm a competent rider with horses who have no trouble carrying my weight. My 14.2 h Arab carries me just fine, although I'd be _extremely_ reluctant to let anyone weighing more than 200 lbs. ride him, even if they are competent. He's petite and can only take so much extra weight.

People need to quit screaming about discrimination and take a close, hard look at their riding skills. Are they up to snuff? Even though you're carrying some extra weight, are you balanced and light in the saddle? If you can't _honestly_ say yes, then maybe you need to step back and consider what you just might be doing to your horse.

Those who yell the loudest about fat discrimination are usually the ones who are unhappy with their own weight, yet don't want anyone pointing out the fact that they might not be in tip top shape.


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## Annaland13 (Oct 28, 2009)

The college wants the team to look and be healthy. They are representing the school in a way. I agree about the men being 200 pounds and healthy from muscle and height, but there aren't a lot of men on teams, and I'm sure they make an exception for that. Riding is an athletic sport and riders that compete should be fit IMO. If you want to ride on the team it's just more motivation to lose weight. I'm sure the older horses will appreciate the lighter weight too.


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## Annaland13 (Oct 28, 2009)

What college is it BTW?


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I'm not saying I disagree with the policy but they will get sued sooner rather than later. Name one other sport that has a wieght limit before you can join the team. There is always someone out there looking to make a buck off someone.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> Name one other sport that has a wieght limit before you can join the team. There is always someone out there looking to make a buck off someone.


They _can_ join the team Kevin, just not ride until they've met the weight requirements.

Oh, and I can name _two_ sports that have weight restrictions: boxing and wrestling. :wink:


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Speed Racer said:


> Oh, and I can name _two_ sports that have weight restrictions: boxing and wrestling. :wink:


 
Those are wieght classes not wieght restrictions.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

If they don't meet their weight _class_ they can't compete, correct? So in essence, it_ is_ a weight restriction.

I know that some of them change weight classes, but there is a ceiling. If they go past that weight, they can't compete.

Doesn't mean they're off the team, just that they can't participate until they make their weight class requirement. 

How is that different than a college riding team?


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

kevinshorses said:


> It's discrimination based on a persons physical build. I am 6'8 and have never been under 200 lbs since I was in the eigth grade. I have been in excellent shape and never damaged a horse with my wieght as I ride balanced but under this policy not only me but many men are excluded from being on the equestrian team due to size. It doesn't bother me and i would never sue but you can bet someone will.


The team I help with is all female. As are the teams they travel to compete aganist. 

Now the rodeo teams are mixed genders.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

Speed Racer said:


> If they don't meet their weight _class_ they can't compete, correct? So in essence, it_ is_ a weight restriction.


No, because they can always move to the next weight class. 

Here there're setting an arbitrary 200 lb limit for everyone - even if you brought in your own draft horse. It'd seem more sensible to approach it from the other direction, and have weight limits for each individual horse, depending on their build, age, condition, and so on.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

jamesqf said:


> even if you brought in your own draft horse. .


That does not work with college teams though because they travel and use the horses that the host team provides. So bringing your own draft will only help you when riding at home.


I see nothing wrong with the rule. All the teams I know of are all women anyway. They use the riding team to give them female athlete numbers.




jamesqf said:


> No, because they can always move to the next weight class.


From what I understand (from my co-workers who seem to have kids who are way into the wrestling thing) just moving up a class is not that easy. There are not endless opportunities in each weight class. If the spot in the class above is taken then you have to fit into your class.


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## Maire995 (Jan 23, 2010)

thats very discrimanating for the bigger riders it has to be a breech of rule!
*"A horse is the projection of peoples' dreams about themselves - strong, powerful, beautiful - and it has the capability of giving us escape from our mundane existence." - Pam Brown*​

Read more: http://www.horseforum.com/english-riding/i-think-im-too-tall-my-47106/page2/#post548422#ixzz0f9n7ZQs5


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> That does not work with college teams though because they travel and use the horses that the host team provides. So bringing your own draft will only help you when riding at home.


Exactly, Always. 

Usually the team barn hosting the show provides the horses, so unless a team member wants to ride _only_ at their home barn, bringing their own horse isn't a solution.

I'm surprised more people aren't aware of this.

No Maire, it's not a _breach_ of rules nor discrimination; it's to help keep the team horses sound and rideable. They're being ridden multiple times a day by different riders. There has to be _some_ sort of requirements to keep them healthy.


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## kchfuller (Feb 1, 2008)

I rode in college and we all had to work with a trainer 2 times a week. All of us went and did a strenuous workout. If you weren't able to do the workout then we had to meet with our trainer and the workout trainer... I never had to do this but there were people who did.

I think that it is ok for them to put a standard in place to protect the horses- I am not saying weight is the right way to do it but someone had to make the decision. 

I will be interested to hear how this plays out so keep us posted!


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

thanks for the discussion. It has really shed some new light! 

FORGOT A VERY IMPORTANT DETAIL! This is an ALL GIRLS SCHOOL! Just to clarify. So this rule does not apply to men at all. Don't see how they could make this rule if they had men. haha.

The team is required to do a workout session twice a week anyway, then two lessons, then team practices as well as a riding class outside of the team.


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## Void (Jun 26, 2009)

I think its a great rule. Riding is a sport, and you are an athlete if you ride, so you should cross train and take better care of yourself as an athlete. You'll do better, and its fairer on the horse.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

I could understand this rule for beginner riders, but not experienced ones.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

eventerdrew said:


> thanks for the discussion. It has really shed some new light!
> 
> FORGOT A VERY IMPORTANT DETAIL! This is an ALL GIRLS SCHOOL! Just to clarify. So this rule does not apply to men at all. Don't see how they could make this rule if they had men. haha.
> 
> The team is required to do a workout session twice a week anyway, then two lessons, then team practices as well as a riding class outside of the team.


 

That is an important detail!! I still think the school is setting themselves up for a lawsuit but they may be able to win it.


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## horsea (Dec 28, 2009)

I don't think they should set a 200 rule because it doesn't apply to every horse. Instead, they should put weight restriction on each individual horse. I mean, not all horses _can_ carry 200 pounds and some horses can carry much more than that!


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## barnprincess (Dec 17, 2009)

i didn't read all of this but i think its horrible BUT in a good way its a great idea for some heavier horse lovers, to set a goal to loose weight to be able to get on the team to ride. kind of like a motivation.


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

It really is more like motivation than anything. They are really trying to help the entire team be healthy and think of themselves as athletes. And because they ride horses from different schools, they need a restriction because you don't necessarily know the conditions of the other horses. It's very hard to get a horse donated to a program like that and most come with lameness issues anyway. Just trying to preserve the horse as I understand.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Well, I don't want to be the bad one, really - don't get me wrong, I am a chubby person myself. All my weight goes into my belly.

I am 5'7" and I weight about 160 pounds, maybe a bit more. My new coach, Events Prelim/Advanced and compeats hardcore and whenever I am with her, she stresses how important rider physical fitness is important.

We are a team, horse and rider. We are not meant to just sit ontop of our horses like a sack of potatoes. If we aren't breaking a sweat when we ride, we aren't doing it right. If our abs aren't buring, we aren't doing it right - we must be working just as hard as our horses.

Becky Holder wrote a great article in a recent Practicle Horseman about how she lost weight and is now even more of a better athletic Eventer than she ever has been - because she is now that much more of a contributor to her horse and their job.

My Coach, has me - well ok - trying to have me - do 30 situp's a day, as a starting point...A STARTING POINT - oh my gosh....just thinking about it I break a sweat. To find out that many Eventers who are mid to upper level are physcially fit, to be physcially prepared for this demanding sport.

That is the same for Hunters, Jumpers, Dressage, and the list goes on.

So, I agree. You should be working just as hard as your horse is when you ride. To do that, you must be physically fit.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

I generally think its a good rule, if you're going to be riding the schools horses. If you bring your own in, the weight limit shouldn't apply, because a) its your horse and your horse only and b) you should be generally smart enough to not weight 200 lbs and be riding a little 14.1 pony. 

I would like to know though, why its not a restriction on the dressage team also? Western saddles are built to distribute weight loads evenly so I can understand that, but dressage saddles, or any English saddle, puts a lot of pressure in a small amount of space.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

I think it is a great idea. Generally horses that are used at the college level are more active and competitive, so think about what health effects a heavy rider could be putting on the horse. It isn't right to make the horse carry around that amount of weight, esp. when jumping. It's selfish for people to think that it has no effect on the horse.

A close friend of mine leased her horse out to a barn for lessons, and she told the owner "no one over 180 pounds can ride my horse", and of course some girl who was over that rode the horse and now the horses joints and tendons are suffering. People who think it is discrimination need to look at the big picture. Not only is it VERY unhealthy for the horse, but for the rider as well.


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

It won't apply to your own horse because you can't ride your own horse at school. You can haul them in and ride in open arena times, but not in lessons, competitions, classes, etc because of IHSA rules.

They probably do have it on the dressage team, but the dressage team does not have a webpage like the hunt seat and western teams so I was not able to acquire the information

I 100% agree with you MIEventer. Becky Holder, while she was a great rider before, is a really great rider now! She's still not a stick, and I respect her for that but she slimmed down for the health of her horse and to be a better rider.


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## Void (Jun 26, 2009)

For those who disagree you have to think about it like this.

If a school had a Lacrosse team, and held tryouts for it, you'd have to be physically fit in order to go through all the exercises that they expect you to, to be on their competitive team.

Which is why I hardly think there would be a lawsuit anyone could put against a school and win. Would you sue if you didn't meet the physical demands of the soccer team and therefore didn't get on the team?

Besides most college students wouldn't have the funds necessary to afford a lawsuit against an institution.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

I for one have /never/ met a 200pound person who is healthy. I don't think it's possible, even if it was all muscle, it would still be unhealthy. The point of horseback riding is to work together with the horse and rider. So why should the horse have to be physically fit, when the rider isn't?


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Void said:


> For those who disagree you have to think about it like this.
> 
> If a school had a Lacrosse team, and held tryouts for it, you'd have to be physically fit in order to go through all the exercises that they expect you to, to be on their competitive team.
> 
> ...


Now what if you were physically able to do the exercises but the coach said you were too fat to be on the team? Any lawyer would smell blood and take the case for a percentage of the take.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

that would mean that my husband, who has not got an ounce of fat on him would not be allowed to ride.


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

again, this particular school does not include men at all. It's a private all-women school. They would never be able to do this rule with men. Ever.


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## Void (Jun 26, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> Now what if you were physically able to do the exercises but the coach said you were too fat to be on the team? Any lawyer would smell blood and take the case for a percentage of the take.


Yes but you CAN be on the team and 200lbs but can't compete. And most truly overweight or obese people wouldn't be able to physically do the exercises. Also most schools are Adroit enough to word things probably that you can't pin it on them.

Also I doubt a Pro-bono lawyer would take the case, they like taking cases that are more clear cut, like Employers taking advantage of employees etc etc.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

I have a love/hate with American, We're the #1 country with the highest obesity rates. SOMETHING has to change. It's disgusting in my eyes.. sorry for who it will offend. But honestly, if you see nothing wrong with it then I don't know what to tell you.

I just think if people *really *wanted to ride, then they would change. I take back what I said about muscle, because my fiance weighs roughly 185, he is really tall & muscular. So he is close to being 200. Though, he doesn't ride.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

White Foot said:


> I have a love/hate with American, We're the #1 country with the highest obesity rates.


But the US also has a high rate of people doing things like running marathons & triathlons. It's not just as simple as Americans getting fatter, it's almost as though the population is splitting in two.

I remember that when I was a kid (quite some time ago), adults hardly ever exercised. They'd do physical work (I grew up in farm country) and go hunting & fishing, but it was rare to see someone running or riding a bike. (And even for kids, biking to the next town - all of five miles away - was a big deal.) Yet there weren't a lot of really fat people around, and especially not the extreme cases I see riding electric carts in the local WalMart.

But on the other hand, neither were there very many body builders, marathon runners, people who'd commute 20-30 miles on a bike - or for that matter endurance riders - and today there are a lot of people doing such things. So the question is why the difference?


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

horseluver250 said:


> Just wondering, are there any requirements besides just weight? (like height/weight ratios) What would they do if a very tall muscular man wanted to ride? I know some men who easily clear 200 pounds and are not "fat". Would they be required to loose their muscle mass in order to ride?


That is my thought also. I am 5'10 and 190 and I am in no way fat. I ride reiners who are all of 14'2 hands and I bet some of my horse so not way anywhere close to 1000lbs. I know a lot of reining trainers and riders who under those rules would never be allow to ride. Some are the best in the business. I would MUCH rather have Shawn or Tim (2 big guys) ride one of my horses then most 90lbs people I now.

There is just so much wrong with that rule.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

White Foot said:


> I for one have /never/ met a 200pound person who is healthy. I don't think it's possible, even if it was all muscle, it would still be unhealthy. The point of horseback riding is to work together with the horse and rider. So why should the horse have to be physically fit, when the rider isn't?



I can show you a lot of people who are over 200lbs and very very fit. Heck I watched 2 teams last sunday who have what 65/team and I bet every single one of them where 200 or better and I bet EVERY single one was very healthy and fit. I can also show you many riders over 200lbs who are also very fit and healthy.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> From what I understand (from my co-workers who seem to have kids who are way into the wrestling thing) just moving up a class is not that easy. There are not endless opportunities in each weight class. If the spot in the class above is taken then you have to fit into your class.


Yes and No. You can move up or down in weight class in wrestling. However you are correct that that spot might be taken by the person in that weight class already. However just like any sport. You can challenge that person to take his spot. Just like on any team.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

White Foot said:


> I for one have /never/ met a 200pound person who is healthy. I don't think it's possible, even if it was all muscle, it would still be unhealthy. The point of horseback riding is to work together with the horse and rider. So why should the horse have to be physically fit, when the rider isn't?


The lightest I have been as an adult was about 225 and I looked like an ethiopian. I had a very physical job and worked 12 hour days 6 days a week. I was as physically tough as any man I worked with and most of them were over 200 lbs. I have even met a couple of women on college track and field teams that were right around the 200 lb mark and they were very fit. Body mass index is not a good way to measure fitness and niether is wieght alone. Just because a person is thin doesn't mean that they are fit or healthy.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

shadowanne said:


> I think it's a good idea, it is an athletic sport after all. I can also understand the weight bearing on the horses. Whether a horse can carry 200+ lbs or not isn't an issue but rather how often is that horse required to carry that weight and under what circumstances, ie in demanding performance or leisurely trail ride.
> 
> I can see there being an issue about people who are fit but still over 200lbs - but perhaps if it is about the horse, there's not getting around that. I'm pretty sure teams can discriminate against anyone they want - the fact that one would have to try out is discriminatory in itself - which is defined in nearly every competitive sport.


It is discriminatory IF all they go by is your weight. If you try out and you can ride and ride well and meet all the requirements of that discipline and the only reason they will not let you compete is your weight then that is discriminatory.

Lets say I go and try out for the team. Since I am a reiner I will use that. Lets say I can take a reining horse go out and ride and score a 72. However I weigh in at a 205. So I can compete I can win I meet every requirement to make the team but my weight. That is discriminatory.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> Body mass index is not a good way to measure fitness and niether is wieght alone. Just because a person is thin doesn't mean that they are fit or healthy.



This is very very true. Especially the way the measure it. When I was a state trooper there was many requirements as to BMI weight vs. Height and fitness. You HAD to meet them all or loose your job.

When I was tested I was over the BMI and weight requirements by the easy way of measureing it. Good thing they would let you chalange it. When I did and they did a submertion test which is MUCH MUCH more accurate way of measureing it. I when from 18% body fat to about 9%. BIG differance. Even thought I was about 10 lbs over the weight requierments for my height.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Void said:


> For those who disagree you have to think about it like this.
> 
> If a school had a Lacrosse team, and held tryouts for it, you'd have to be physically fit in order to go through all the exercises that they expect you to, to be on their competitive team.
> 
> ...


That is the difference between riding and playing many other sports. For the past about 5 years my lunge capacity is about 50%-55%. There is NO way I could play basketball like I did in high school and collage. However I can still mark a 72 in reining. So basically I meet the requirements for that discipline. I can do it I can mark a good score I can win yet I can barely walk to the barn with out coughing.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

I haven't read many of the replies in this thread, just flicked through a couple per page. 
I agree to an extent with the ruling. We expect our horses to work hard, be toned, muscled and fit. And yet we then go home, crash in front of the television with some fat laden meal and put on weight. To me, this is unfair. Horse and rider are a team, we both have to pull our weight. If we expect the horse to be at peak fitness, then I work on myself to also be at peak, or near peak, fitness also. You simply cannot ride effectively if you are not fit. Riding is a physically demanding sport, not in the way that you are running up an down a court for an hour, but you need to use different muscle groups to control various parts of your body. 

Yes, larger people CAN be fit... but obviously they are not eating the best diet if they have layers of fat on them. Losing weight is a simple thing, eat less calories than you burn each day. To maintain a weight, eat the same amount of calories that you burn. To gain weight consume more calories a day than what you burn off.

You cannot tell me that a person who has roll upon roll is healthy. I'm sorry.

Also, you simply cannot be an effective rider if you have fat in the way. I certainly would know about it, my weight tends to yo-yo quite a bit depending on what I'm doing. I've been out of the saddle for almost a year (not by choice mind you!!) and since I must admit, I have become lazy and gained weight. I sat on a mate's horse the other day, and my god!! I found it so hard to put my leg on! 


However, on the other side of the coin, the fact that the ruling is judged by weight only is rather harsh. As I'm sure has been said previously, there are some extremely fit people who would weigh in at over 200 pounds, purely in muscle mass. 

I'd say the best judge would be to do a skin pinch, and also a fitness test incorporating cardio and muscular workouts.


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

I honestly don't know how I feel about the rule, I do think a person needs to be fit, but I don't think you can measure that by a person's weight.

Society veiws thin as healthy, I think that's alot of crap. I am overweight and I admit I am offended by the skinny people who are so quick to tell someone they are unhealthy, and could easily be thin if they just worked at it alittle, 9 times out of 10 the loudest ones are often the laziest. I work out everyday, I live on a farm, I CAN'T be lazy, to much has to be done, and I have always been active! As a kid me and my siblings rode our bikes everywhere. I have never had health issues, the only thing in my med cabinate is tylonal. I have 15 nephews, all are very active and healthy, all but one are also thin, the one that isn't is just as active as the others, he doesn't eat any more then the others, he just got the unlucky genetics. I admit I'm not such a great rider right now, I'm getting back after a 10 year break and it's not like riding a bike, but I'm getting there.

The laziest person I know (and the biggest eater), is my sister, and she's always been the skinny one in the family (her and my brother, he can keep up w/ her when it comes to eating, but he's not lazy and is very fit). There is a joke in the family, when someone has a huge meal, "Weren't very hungry?" because me and my sister were together one day and I asked her if she wanted to get something to eat before going home, she said she wasn't sure she wasn't very hungry, we talked it over and desided we'd eat, she ordered a full meal plus enough extras to feed the rest of the family, I just stared at her w/ my mouth open, and she was dead serious and said "I know, I'm just not very hungry!"

I guess my point is you can't tell by a persons weight how fit they are. I actually do agree that most likely the majority of overweight/obese people are unhealthy (just watch the biggest loser), but not all are, and a large majority of thin people (that most would assume are fit) are also very unhealthy. Society has this idea about what fit and healthy look like and anyone that doesn't fit must not take care of themselves.


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

Losing weight is easy in theory (and I love when people who've NEVER been overweight tell someone that struggles w/ it, that losing is easy!). I am actually eating more right now than I have in a long time, and I've lost 6lbs! I think one of my biggest problems is I am busy most the day and don't even think about eating til 5-7 pm, then I'd have a decent sized super and that would be it for the day. Recently my mom has some ideas and asked if I'd let her plan my meals, sounded good to me, so I'm now eating breakfast, lunch, and super, and one snack, and so far I'm actually happy w/ the results, I hope they keep coming! I do all I can to be fit and healthy, and I do it as much for my horse as I do for myself. It would be hard for me to cut my calories more then they are right now, and still be getting enough to give me the energy to do what needs to be done. Not eating may lead to weightloss, but it's not healthy either.

And just to clarify, I do not have rolls upon rolls of fat. Despite being overweight I do not think my fat is "in the way", yes it would be nice if I was lighter, and maybe someday I'll get there, but in the mean time I've lived w/ it long enough to know what I can do.

And my horse is happily munched on her free choice hay, I provide her with all she needs plus extras, I do not go inside and plop in front of the TV w/ a big fatty dinner w/ no care at all for my own fitness. And to be honest if I did, she really doesn't have that much to complain about! I chose a horse that would be capable to carry me whether I lose the weight or not, she's perfectly capable, I'm sure she'd appriciate it if I could get some weight off, but in the mean time she's suitable for the work I ask her to do. And I can even do her one better, if she ever becomes unsound for riding I will happily retire her to be a pasture ornimate.


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## Bubbles101 (Aug 15, 2009)

I think thats perfectly reasonable...


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

In an earlier post I took back what I said about it being muscle, my fiance is around 185, and tall; he's very physically fit. I guess what I'm trying to say is I have met alot of guys that fit in the 180+ category, and are healthy. But I have never met a girl that was 200ibs and was physically fit. I mean could they ride and do physical activities, but they weren't at their best, and could use to lose weight. Because women, correct me if I'm wrong, we handle out fats and muscles differently. Where for a guy they can make muscle easier?.. idk where I'm going with this.

Call me cold hearted but I have little to no sympathy.

I agree with Kayty.


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

Weight limit
I have been 14,5 stone - 200 lbs weight naked almost all of my life. Since it has become fashionable I am now told that my BMI is incorrect. Seemingly it is unhealthy for a man of my height to be over 12 stone - rubbish. But I can prove them wrong - I am still alive. Lots of men easily acheive 14.5 stones body weight - especially those big brawny football players.

It would seem that you have someone in your college who has a hidden agenda.

Some European holiday riding centres do put a limit of 14 stones on rider weight ie 196 lbs ie 90 kilos. A weight limit set at this level will cater for most women and a significant proportion of the men who are likely to ride. (We don't see many weight lifters in this sport).

But in reality a horse of one breed may have a higher carrying capacity than another. Thoroughbreds are lightly built whereas Cobs : ie mixed breed horses with draught horse forbears have, according to conformation, a much higher weight carrying capacity. Measure the depth of bone in the front legs.

A British heavy weight Hunter - perhaps 16.3h-17h can carry any weight of rider for any distance - depending on the fitness of the horse.

No - you can't set a weight carrying rule for any horse - 
as also to be taken into consideration is the capability of the rider. Some riders "sit" heavier than others.

Personally I would load up a British 14h2 Dales pony with any weight of human - those little devils were built to carry lead off a mountainside. Equally Shires, Cydesdales, Percherons. Suffolks and their cross breeds can all carry weight. They make comfortable riding horses but they won't barrel race.

And my Joe, perhaps a representative of a Galloway 
now defined as an extinct breed - would take any weight of human on his back and go up a mountainside without strain.

I agree a rider should be fit but judging that fitness by weight alone is grossly unfair to the heavier built individual. Some folks are just built heavy.

Although, my oh my, a 15 stone (210lbs) woman - wouldn't she be a big stong gal! But my DiDI could have carried her - no doubt.

If the rule is there to stop you eating chocolate cream cakes or sugared doughnuts filled with jam - OK - but it is not a fair rule to the horse loving offspring of a Scandinavian weight lifter.

B G


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## Amba1027 (Jun 26, 2009)

I think part of the problem here is that people are assuming that by setting this rule they are stating that anyone over 200lbs is unfit. To me it sounds like they are saying if you are over 200lbs you can't ride our horses. If the reason that you weight over 200 is that you are unfit and need to lose weight they have trainers to help you do that. If that is not the reason then you are out of luck.

Think of it like cheerleading. You can be the most fit person in the world but if you weight too much the others on the team aren't going to be able to lift you. Maybe you still get on the team and just get to be the one who stays on the ground or maybe you don't get on at all because they want everyone to be able to be lifted.

It's the schools horses and the schools team. They can set whatever rules for admission that they'd like, to the school itself and to the teams they have. I don't think you would ever get away with suing them because they are private. It would be like trying to sue them for only allowing women to attend.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

You can not equate weight with health. They are 2 different things. I have known people who where rail thin and people who where what most would say are obese. Which do you think was the healthiest??

Same with amount of activity. Again I know people who do very little and are thin and I know people who are always on the go and doing things are are fare from thin.

There are SO MANY things that go into health.


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## Amba1027 (Jun 26, 2009)

nrhareiner said:


> You can not equate weight with health. They are 2 different things. I have known people who where rail thin and people who where what most would say are obese. Which do you think was the healthiest??
> 
> Same with amount of activity. Again I know people who do very little and are thin and I know people who are always on the go and doing things are are fare from thin.
> 
> There are SO MANY things that go into health.


Not sure if this was a reply to me or not. I am aware of this. I am super skinny and probably one of the most unhealthy, non fit people you will ever meet. I had high cholesterol when I was 8. That's why I said I believe the rule is less about saying who is healthy and more about saying there is a weight limit to riding their horses. Plain and simple.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Amba1027 said:


> It would be like trying to sue them for only allowing women to attend.


No.. it would be like sueing them for only allowing thin women to attend or white women or native english speaking women or only women with brown hair or women that are left handed.


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## Amba1027 (Jun 26, 2009)

And being that they are a private school they have the right to do that if they so desire.


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## Silversun (Feb 5, 2010)

Honeysuga said:


> I think it is only fair. It is an athletic team after all and they are representing the school. And they aren't saying you can't ride period, they have a trainer you can meet with to help you meet the requirements. And the weigh ins are private, so no one has to know you didn't meet the requirements. My verdict: I agree with the rule.
> 
> Even if it is technically not legal and discriminating, they can always use the BMI and make it a required part of the physical that is necessary to be on the team(which will still rule out a good deal if not all of the riders that would be affected by the 200lb rule), they did this at my highschool with every athletic team, and it was very legal...


I 100% agree.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

nrhareiner said:


> You can not equate weight with health. They are 2 different things. I have known people who where rail thin and people who where what most would say are obese. Which do you think was the healthiest??
> 
> Same with amount of activity. Again I know people who do very little and are thin and I know people who are always on the go and doing things are are fare from thin.
> 
> There are SO MANY things that go into health.


Yes, you can. If a person is too skinny then they are unhealthy and need to change something same with a person who is overweight. If you want to argue the fact that you know some people who don't do anything and are skinny where others do alot and aren't skinny then they obviously are doing something wrong! It could be a health issue they should consult their doctor, like a thyroid problem. Or it could be something their eating, like thinking just because they work hard means they can eat whatever they want. 

No matter what it is still unhealthy!! Answer me this question.. 
What would be healthier for the horse? A person who is too skinny or someone who is over 200ibs? :?


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> No.. it would be like sueing them for only allowing thin women to attend or white women or native english speaking women or only women with brown hair or women that are left handed.


I think you're forgetting the real point here, *that they are doing it for the horse*. And yeah, possibly their image. You wouldn't hire a 200ibs+ model to model your underwear (unless you're a plus size model)? the answer is most likely no because your trying to uphold an image.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

White Foot said:


> Answer me this question..
> What would be healthier for the horse? A person who is too skinny or someone who is over 200ibs? :?


It depends on who well the person rides. I stated earlier. I would let a person over 200lbs ride my horses say like Shawn or Tim before I lets most people who are under a 100lbs ride my horses.

The 12 yo neighbor girl who ways all of what 90lbs and rides fairly well bounces around MUCH more on my horses back then my trainer or I do and both of are at the very least 2 times her weight. SO in short. Weight has less to do with it them how you ride.

Most reiners ride horses that are small. If you say that if you are over 200lbs you can not ride. You would loose a large majority of reining horse riders out there.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

nrhareiner said:


> It depends on who well the person rides. I stated earlier. I would let a person over 200lbs ride my horses say like Shawn or Tim before I lets most people who are under a 100lbs ride my horses.
> 
> The 12 yo neighbor girl who ways all of what 90lbs and rides fairly well bounces around MUCH more on my horses back then my trainer or I do and both of are at the very least 2 times her weight. SO in short. Weight has less to do with it them how you ride.
> 
> Most reiners ride horses that are small. If you say that if you are over 200lbs you can not ride. You would loose a large majority of reining horse riders out there.


People who ride on a college team are usually tested before they can get on the team or not. So if the skinny person wasn't a good rider then they wouldn't get on the team. That is true, but maybe it would make people change their ways. Not only for their horses but for themselves!


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

White Foot said:


> Yes, you can. If a person is too skinny then they are unhealthy and need to change something same with a person who is overweight. If you want to argue the fact that you know some people who don't do anything and are skinny where others do alot and aren't skinny then they obviously are doing something wrong! It could be a health issue they should consult their doctor, like a thyroid problem. Or it could be something their eating, like thinking just because they work hard means they can eat whatever they want.



You are trying to lump things into a simple box and when it comes to being healthy you can not do that. There is much much more to being healthy then what you weigh or what you do even what you eat.

My grandma has never eaten healthy a day in her life. She never worked out. Heck she did not even do yard work. She was what most would consider over weight especially latter in life. From about 30-80. She is now 97 and takes all of 2 medications. Same with her mom and dad.

I have also known people back when I drove entertainer buses. They where so strict in what they did and would eat that they tried to impose it on the rest of us on tour. Did not work for the drivers. Some of those people are gone now. 

Being healthy is a lot of little things no one big thing.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

White Foot said:


> People who ride on a college team are usually tested before they can get on the team or not. So if the skinny person wasn't a good rider then they wouldn't get on the team. That is true, but maybe it would make people change their ways. Not only for their horses but for themselves!



You can not MAKE a person change. If you could you would not have alcoholics. They have to want to.

Also if a person rides well enough to make the team then what they weigh should not be an issue.

Also they say it is for the horse. It has also been brought up that each school who hosts the event provides the horse. So what about the team that comes in with riders over 200lbs. Sorry you can not ride our horses b/c you are too fat??? That will not work.

Also if you are going to argue that it is for the horse then you also need to say that is for EVERY horse not just the ones at this school. My point is that horses can carry more then you think they can and if you are putting it all off on the horse then you have to be consistent accost the board. You can not say just women over 200lbs but men as well everyone for every horse.

NO ONE OVER 200LBS ever on any horse.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

nrhareiner said:


> NO ONE OVER 200LBS ever on any horse.


Well no. Because not all horses are created equal.

As has been posted several times, the school depends on donated horses that are usually donated because of soundness issues. 

So the school has made a rule regarding THEIR horses.



Are the reining people you are talking about that are well over 200lbs men?

For the average female to get over 200 lbs they pretty much have to be over weight.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Well no. Because not all horses are created equal.
> *
> That is my point. You can not set a weight limit. IF It was that easy then you would have a lot of people not being able to ride*.
> 
> ...


Dose it matter??? 200lbs is 200lbs no matter if it is a woman or man. Again I am a woman and at 5'10 I am not far from 200lbs and I an not at all over weight. I know several female reiners who are very close to 200lbs if not over. They ride well and their horses are fine. Also keep in mind that most reiners are about 14'2-maybe 15hh and weigh in at about 800-900lbs So if you put the 20% rule to those horses anyone over 160lbs would be too heavy.

Again there is MUCH more to riding them how much a person weighs and it dose not matter if the person who is 200lbs is a man or woman.


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

I see a lot of people are still stuck on the MEN thing. This is a women's college like I said before. I agree that if they had men, there is absolutely no way that they would be able to say 200lbs or no riding. 

It's not just about competing, the person cannot be on any of the horses at any time at all if they are over 200lbs. Not just competition.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

> *Yes they are their horses. So again what about people form other schools coming in and riding them?? Perhaps they should look at getting better horses??*​




Donated horses..... Most schools have donated horses. 
​


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

eventerdrew said:


> I see a lot of people are still stuck on the MEN thing. This is a women's college like I said before. I agree that if they had men, there is absolutely no way that they would be able to say 200lbs or no riding.
> 
> It's not just about competing, the person cannot be on any of the horses at any time at all if they are over 200lbs. Not just competition.


The thing is that 200lbs is 200lbs. Dose not matter if it is a woman's college or not.

What they are doing is pulling an arbitrary number out of the air and putting it on every horse and every rider. As I bet not every horse weigh is at 1000lbs exactly.

Again what happens when anouther schools team comes in and they have riders over 200lbs???????????????


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

I still don't know how I feel about the rule, but I do agree it seems alittle silly if the schools they compete against don't have that rule, and if they can ride, just not compete, aren't the horses still being rode by people over that rule? So I don't fully see how it protects the horses (I could be missing something).

As for the rest, maybe I am doing something wrong, but it's so easy for the rail thin person that has never had the slightest weight issue, and can drop pounds like they're nothing, to tell someone else that it's "easy"! 

I'm not saying I'm a fitness freak, but I take care of myself, I don't over eat and I excersize every day! I could make some changes, I could stop eatting all together, I wouldn't be healthy, but hey I'd lose weight and be perceived by the general public as healthier and more fit! I could stick my finger down my throat after every meal and vomit it back up, again not to healthy, and no one would want to be near me because of my horrible breath, I could quit my job so I'd have more time to devote to excersize, I wouldn't be able to afford to keep my horse, but I will look so good I'm sure someone would let me use theirs! I have chosen to be healthy over trying to cheat and damage myself to fit someone elses idea of fit.


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

^ I have no idea what their policy will be on that. Maybe they want to limit the amount of weight they have on their horses at home so that they only get a heavier weight at competition?

A lot of their horses are older and/or have some kind of intermittent lameness issue (one can't go in small circles). It's all about the horses from what I understand.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Donated horses..... Most schools have donated horses.
> [/COLOR][/LEFT]


Again they do not have to except those donated horses. 

Also like I have said. What happens when the next team comes in to compete on these horses and they have riders over 200lbs???


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

eventerdrew said:


> ^ I have no idea what their policy will be on that. Maybe they want to limit the amount of weight they have on their horses at home so that they only get a heavier weight at competition?
> 
> A lot of their horses are older and/or have some kind of intermittent lameness issue (one can't go in small circles). It's all about the horses from what I understand.


 
If it's all about the horses maybe they shouldn't be riding lame horses at all. I'm sure they won't have any equestrian team after they get sued by the first fat girl that wants to ride.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

nrhareiner said:


> The thing is that 200lbs is 200lbs. Dose not matter if it is a woman's college or not.
> 
> What they are doing is pulling an arbitrary number out of the air and putting it on every horse and every rider. As I bet not every horse weigh is at 1000lbs exactly.
> 
> Again what happens when anouther schools team comes in and they have riders over 200lbs???????????????


Yes, without a doubt the number is arbitrary. But so are most numbers. I know a bunch of 16yo that for sure are not mature enough to trust with a car but they can legally drive one. I know lots more 21yo that are for sure not mature enough to be able to drink, but they can legally. 

I think this might be a case of the school trying to do two things at once. 

First and foremost they are trying to preserve their donated lesson horses. The English riders jump and all that. So putting a weight limit is to help put less strain on the string. Every day strain. If another team comes with a larger rider that will be a one time thing.

The second is, they are trying to make their team more healthy. And yes, in specific cases weight does not mean healthy. Not denying that. But riding is the one college sport that you can totally ignore fitness and still participate in most cases.



nrhareiner said:


> Again they do not have to except those donated horses.


With out donated horses they would not have any horses.


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

If they didn't accept donated horses, they would have absolutely no horses. All of their horses are donated. Which is why it is hard to get horses that A) can carry more weight and B) don't have some kind of problem


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

If they are jumping horses that can't turn in a circle they have quite a program they can be proud of. I don't suppose you would care to post the name of the school would you?


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

They don't jump the ones that go intermittently lame obviously. they have good, sound ones, and they have ones that can do the walk/trot.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

Doesn't sound like a very good school program at all.


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## TheRoughrider21 (Aug 25, 2009)

ok this is how I see it...no good rider should be turned down. I admit...I stand at 6'0" and weigh close to 200 lbs. I can't help this. my dad was a big boy and my mom wasnt no little thing. I grew up on a farm and I am muscular even though I am a female. I will admit it's not all muscle but I eat healthy and excersice everyday. Its just that my excersices have more to do with building muscle than reducing body fat. If I was at this school, I would be very upset. I ride different horses everyday and they range from 15hh to 17hh. I am a good rider and I can carry my weight and balance better than most 100 lb riders. First off I would never go to an all girls school but thats just me. I have a friend who is over-weight and she's a **** good rider. She would have to work with a trainer to lose weight and losing weight is very hard for her. She's tried so many times to go to the gym with me and run on the tredmile and stuff and nothing works. So in my mind, this is a totally unfair rule. I play lots of sports including football and basketball and there are no weight restrictions on those. If you are healty and can pass the physical your good.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

*
White Foot-
"But I have never met a girl that was 200ibs and was physically fit. I mean could they ride and do physical activities, but they weren't at their best, and could use to lose weight. Because women, correct me if I'm wrong, we handle out fats and muscles differently."*

*That is complete baloney*. When I was in weight training( our school competitive weight lifting team) I weighed 210lbs, and I am only 5'4", but I was extremely healthy and worked out every day. I was not bulked up and had very little fat, just dense muscle tissue and could easily squat 225lbs. You are looking very narrow minded at weight which has little bearing on overall health.

And whoever said losing weight is only a matter of calories and eating healthy needs to do some research. I have a slow metabolism and a stress disorder that causes me to produce more than average amounts of cortisol, so I am technically overweight. I excersize daily and eat around 1400 calories with lots of fresh friuts and veggies. I do not drink soda and veg out on junk food, but it has taken me 2 months to lose 12lbs. There is a lot more that comes into play that just calories and exercise.


​


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

It IS a good school program, period. Sorry you don't think so, but it is. I've been there, met with the coach, observed her training, seen the horses, seen the barns, etc. It's a great program.


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## EPMhorse (Jun 14, 2009)

Just to muddy the waters...Don't rodeo riders (bronc, not bull) have to be 175lbs or less? This is just a vague memory from a program many years ago. 

The population as a whole is getting heavier, and not for good reason. I see this as the person in charge taking a stand, to advocate for the horses, in a way that is measurable, and less subjective.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

If they really cared about the horses they wouldn't be using horses that are "intermittently lame" for a riding program that has them being used several hours per day. If the college really wanted to have a horse program they could find sound horses and purchase or lease them. As a parent I would discourage my kid from riding in the program regardless of wieght if all of the horses were not sound. I guess thier right to want to limit the wieght they are putting on crippled horses.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

No one is going to change their minds. Kevin it's a good thing your a male because you can't get into the riding program anyways! 

I don't ride at my college because it's way too expensive.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

eventerdrew said:


> It IS a good school program, period. Sorry you don't think so, but it is. I've been there, met with the coach, observed her training, seen the horses, seen the barns, etc. It's a great program.


Go back and reread what Kevin has told you and what you have said. What kind of program would use horses like that? That there donated is a very poor excuse.


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