# Help With Sudden First Barrel Issues



## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

I am not 100% sure I would rule out a pain issue. He really resists that turn at speed. You can see it even in his poles run. He pops his head up going to the right but keeps on going. Here is what I would do....or at least something you could try

Take the physical barrel out of the picture. At this point in his training, he should know that he is expected to turn right there. If it is the barrel that is spooking him or if it is a mind block, he should just make the right turn and head on over to the left. Even try varying it a bit. Take that turn a few paces before you usually would or a few paces after. Switch it up. Make him think. 

Try going left right right. I run left right right because I am severely right hand dominant and it is better to get my crap turn out of the way first and make up for it later. 

As far as every day activities, try turnabouts on him. Pick a point on a straight away, lope to it and do a 360 turn and keep loping. Lope another 15 strides and do a 180 and trot home. 

As far as pain issues go, have you tried massage? A Chiro can help with bones problems but a massage tech will help with muscle problems. He doesn't look like an uptight barrel horse and is actually very very nice. A massage is cheaper and a good therapist will tell you straight up if there is nothing there. Even your backyard QH has a knot here or there. 

Is he shod? Maybe he caught a hot nail in that foot? 

I wish you and your BO the best of luck with him. He is sure a cute boy with a good solid foundation on him.


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## Phantomcolt18 (Sep 25, 2007)

corinowalk said:


> I am not 100% sure I would rule out a pain issue. He really resists that turn at speed. You can see it even in his poles run. He pops his head up going to the right but keeps on going. Here is what I would do....or at least something you could try
> 
> Take the physical barrel out of the picture. At this point in his training, he should know that he is expected to turn right there. If it is the barrel that is spooking him or if it is a mind block, he should just make the right turn and head on over to the left. Even try varying it a bit. Take that turn a few paces before you usually would or a few paces after. Switch it up. Make him think.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your response! 

He has tried running him left, right, right. He turned the first barrel beautifully then blew out again at the first right turn the second right turn he did beautifully. I believe i have the video I'll be able to get that up in the morning. 

He does not have shoes. And no we have not tried massage therapy. That's a really good idea. I'm going to look up a few in our area tomorrow and tell my BO. He said he's willing to do anything. Zip is his pride and joy. 

I'll definately take the barrel away and just work on turning. The turnabout exercise sounds like a great idea. 

Also the people who own our showgrounds have allowed us to bring Zip over to work in the arena if we want to see if it is the arena itself that may be spooking him for some reason.

**Also FORGOT TO MENTION he turns the right barrel perfectly at home. Sorry about that it's late/early here (2am)

**If anyone wants I can get video of me working Zippy on Wednesday so you can see how he is at home.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Looks like the typical symptom of a blown-up horse. But with the workout regimen you posted, that just doesn't fit...

Like Cori, I'm not sure I'd be so quick to discount pain. Did the vet actually do flexion tests, or just X-rays? Could be a soft tissue problem, too, which of course would not show up on films.

If it IS a training issue, I would say it stems from how strung out he is. He needs to learn to collect, rather than riding all strung out. There's no way to control him and get him to set and rate in his current state. 

Back to slow work, and off the barrels. Get him to round his back and drop his head. I'd ditch the combo bit and switch to a draw, at least for now. Get a nice stop, rate, and sit put in place. When you DO go back to barrels, make him stop, back, and wait and the entry of each pocket. Set him up correctly, with lateral flexion, nose tipped in, etc. Ask him to 'whoa'--if he doesn't sit, stop him immediately and make him back before allowing him to turn. He needs to coil before springing at the barrel.

Also, temporarily, I'd see what switching him to a left pattern would do. Though I suspect that after a short time he'd go back to refusing to turn the second...


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## Phantomcolt18 (Sep 25, 2007)

bubba13 said:


> Looks like the typical symptom of a blown-up horse. But with the workout regimen you posted, that just doesn't fit...
> 
> Like Cori, I'm not sure I'd be so quick to discount pain. Did the vet actually do flexion tests, or just X-rays? Could be a soft tissue problem, too, which of course would not show up on films.
> 
> ...


That is his workout schedule, weather permitting, but I really doubt that missing a day or two once in a while would cause him to behave like this. 

Yup the vet did flexion, X-rays, blood tests, they had this horse checked for nearly everything under the sun. Everything turned up fine. 

From both of these responses we are DEFINATELY going to be taking the barrels out of the equation for now. Back to the basics of collection for Zipster. We have a draw bit so I'll work him in that on wednesday and see how it goes. I'll tape it then post it so you can see how he reacts to it. 
We'll start working on this stuff on Wednesday. I'm going to come up with a new schedule for Zip on what we're going to work on each day from now on. 

Yeah when he ran Zip the other way he still blew away from that same barrel but then turned the third one to the right beautifully. I'll post that video tomorrow. 

Thanks for the responses so far, they're really helpful. I'm going to be typing everything up and printing it out for my BO soon.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Has anyone else tried to ride him (particularly a very experienced, successful barrel racer) and did he do the same thing for them?


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Personally, I would pop him into a snaffle or very short shanked curb and two-hand him for a while. He is all over the place with his leads and bend, dis-regarding the barrel issue, I would want to tidy that up. As Bubba said, I would be doing lots of stopping before the pocket and getting him shaped correctly before making the turn. 

Out of curiosity - What would he do if you turned left at the second barrel? As in turn it the same way as the first barrel - Stuffs the pattern, but it would be interesting to see whether it is the direction, or just the second turn in general that is the issue.


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## Doe (Jun 21, 2011)

Unfortunately he isn't actually bending. Instead he is bunnying around the poles.
Watch the video again. Focus solely on his hind feet. See how they move? 

I'm not critiquing but also the rider isn't neutral. His body is sending the horse straight when his hands are saying to turn. Also his legs are restricting the scapula of the horse.

I quite agree this horse hollowing will not help the flexion.


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

Perhaps you can backpedal a bit - go to doing serpentines at a trot and lope between two barrels. Back to some basics.


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## Phantomcolt18 (Sep 25, 2007)

> Has anyone else tried to ride him (particularly a very experienced, successful barrel racer) and did he do the same thing for them?


Yeah we've had someone who's been running barrels professionally for years, since my BO was younger, run him and no matter which direction she took him he turned that same right barrel with issues but went on to do the following 2 barrels fine. We would have her helping us unfortunately she moved to OK in June.



> Personally, I would pop him into a snaffle or very short shanked curb and two-hand him for a while. He is all over the place with his leads and bend, dis-regarding the barrel issue, I would want to tidy that up. As Bubba said, I would be doing lots of stopping before the pocket and getting him shaped correctly before making the turn.
> 
> Out of curiosity - What would he do if you turned left at the second barrel? As in turn it the same way as the first barrel - Stuffs the pattern, but it would be interesting to see whether it is the direction, or just the second turn in general that is the issue.


That might be a good idea WS. Since the pattern's already being botched it really couldn't hurt any. I've been wanting to work him in a full cheek for a while so I guess we could try that. 



> Unfortunately he isn't actually bending. Instead he is bunnying around the poles.
> Watch the video again. Focus solely on his hind feet. See how they move? I'm not critiquing but also the rider isn't neutral. His body is sending the horse straight when his hands are saying to turn. Also his legs are restricting the scapula of the horse.
> I quite agree this horse hollowing will not help the flexion.


Thanks I'll bring it up to him. So you're saying he needs to lean into the weave more instead of just relying on the reins to move Zippy over?



> Perhaps you can backpedal a bit - go to doing serpentines at a trot and lope between two barrels. Back to some basics.


Backpedalling is now the plan....just without barrels for a little while. We're going to do as Bubba says and get a good stop and rate, and as she says to get him to coil before he springs at the barrel. Because I have noticed when he runs he's barely...if at all sometimes....rating before a turn.

Anything else is gladly still welcome This is all wonderful advice so far, I can't wait to get started.

Does anyone need more videos? If you do please don't hesitate to ask...I want this to be a thorough as possible.


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## Doe (Jun 21, 2011)

Phantom



> Thanks I'll bring it up to him. So you're saying he needs to lean into the weave more instead of just relying on the reins to move Zippy over?


No, leaning is the problem. Don't get me wrong i've never barrel raced so I'm no trainer, but my role is to 'read' the connections (both positive and negative between horse and rider) and the effects. 

His leanings I see it is pre-empting the horse. As he hasn't been able to commit yet, your boyfriends leaning just sends the horse out further. If it was a motorbike, you would turn the handle bars out of the turn to throw the bike in faster and lean at the same time, but with horses that doesn't work. In motorbike terms it's like the pillion going the wrong way. 

Secondly please focus on the horse bunnying. That is very important. I know his flexion has been checked, but loose flexion bears little correlation to that under saddle in motion unless your vet is exceptionally specialist anklets face it very few are. That horse has flexion issues under saddle. I promise you that 100% money back guarantee, certified by Oprah and Dr Phil with a cherry on top.


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## aforred (May 12, 2010)

The only thing I can add to what you've already been told is to approach each barrel two handed and bump straight back with both hands to set him for the turn. You can go to one hand around the turn.

For the poles, when you're weaving, you want your horse to be as straight as possible. Imagine a line drawn straight down the pole pattern. Every time you cross that line you want to tip his nose just a little to the inside and don't let his hip swing to the outside. Use a lot of leg, and the supplying excersizes that you'll do for barrels will help here, too. If he starts to duck into a pole, bump with both hands straight back and use the inside leg to push him over.

For the barrels and poles, when you make a turn, keep your inside shoulder up. The easiest way to do that is to raise your inside rein while making the turn. Not a lot, just a little.

If he gets more supple and collected, and learns to rate, he will improve a lot.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

I actually dreamt about this horse last night! I guess it was definately on my brain!

Another idea, once you are comfortable bringing barrels back into the equation - I would start the pattern as normal, but two handed. I would let him blow that second barrel, but as soon as he did I would stop, back up, the put him straight into a right lead lope in a big circle around the barrel. As big as it needs to be for him to settle into his lope. I would keep him on this circle and start spiraling him in closer to the barrel. If he wigs out, keep him on the big circle till he gets a bit tired, then try spiraling in again. I would continue until the circle was too small to looe comfortably - then stop. Throw out my reins, let him blow, and walk away and do something else. 

Every time he blew the barrel in training I would do this. Every time he ran the barrel clean, I would finish the run and leave it at that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I suspect the lighting has a lot to do with the horse's issues. He'd likely do better in the dark and seems to do so in daylight. To a horse the barrel becomes something else when it casts a long shadow. I'd also keep him out of the arena and trail ride him, for a while. It seems he was started slowly and now he's being pushed before he's mentally ready.


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

I don't have to much to say advice wise other than I completely agree taking him off barrels. We only run our horses at shows, maybe trot the pattern once every two weeks.
But, your horse (and whoever is riding) in thefirst barrel video look extremely familiar, and my friend is sitting in the corner outside the ring, haha. I was wondering which arena that was at? I might have pictures I took if I was there 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Horsesdontlie (Mar 11, 2011)

subscribing to comment on later


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## Horsesdontlie (Mar 11, 2011)

I'm just going to say what I see in these videos. I would love to see more if you got them.

I see an unbalanced horse that is throwing a temper tantrum. First in all three videos the rider spins the horse the way he is about to make his first turn but the horse is heavy on the fore and only swings his butt around, not easily getting onto the correct lead, and more of just throwing its body around to get there. So first of all I would suggest making a larger, balanced circle to start off your run.

Second of all, the horse looks burned out. I would show at slower speeds until this problem gets fixed. No use in running full speed, its just going to make the problem worse and worse. Teaching worse and worse habits as time goes on. I would suggest, when the peak of your barrel season is over, give the horse a good couple of months without having to see barrels. Most people I used to ride with would give their horses the entire winter off of barrels, and the horses always came back running harder and more eager fresh the next year. 

Next I want to point out that he lost the battle and the horse won as soon as he let the horse make a left hand turn. I suggest doing everything possible to keep the horse pointed towards where you want it to go, let it throw its temper tantrum but show it that it will go around that barrel to the right doesn't matter what it does. 

Next, I can't pin point it from the view, but the rider does look like he is riding different to that barrel from the first video to the next. This is probably unavoidable since the fact that the horse has been acting this way. But I do see something different. 

Another thing is that as said by other people when looking at the pole video, this horse is hollowing out, nose in the air and dropping his back. This also contributes to his lack of balance. I noticed with my boy if I keep him more collected with forward propulsion he really gets under himself for turning and I barely have to use my reins, because he is responding to my leg and well balanced. 

Some exercises I suggest, spirals. with and without a barrel in the middle. Start at a trot and start on a larger 20m circle, then slowly bring it in with outside leg pressure until you feel the horse can not go any smaller while keeping its balance, then use your inside leg and push back out. Repeat several times and go in the opposite direction. This is a hard workout and requires time before the horse can make a tight circle. Then when the horse can do a tight, balanced circle at a trot to both directions, move to the canter and repeat. 

Slowly cantering the barrel pattern.

Making all right turns on the barrels, then all left turns. (Right turn at first barrel, right turn at third barrel right turn at second barrel) (Left turn second barrel, left turn third barrel left turn first barrel) Vary it up, don't stick to one pattern.


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## Phantomcolt18 (Sep 25, 2007)

Hye guys.....worked with Zippy today. NO BARRELS AT ALL haha....the closest barrel was probably over at the next farm =P

I worked him a in draw and worked on getting a better woah. He picked up on that really well. We also worked on soem figure eights and serpantines. All from a walk, trot, very little lope. His woah at the lope needs a bit more work. Also we worked on spiraling in and out in both directions. I was able to get him to collect so he knows how to do it. He has a gorgeous collected lope and once he settles down in his trot it's really nice then when my BO let's him trot normally. 

*Horsesdontlie-* (do u want to see poles and barrels videos or just any videos in general because out shows run different events as well)

Yes yes yes!! about the tight turn in the beginning! I completely agree. When I run Tbird in barrels we lope a rather large circle to the right so that he is ready and in the proper form when we get to the first barrel. I also noticed he seems to run differently towards the first barrel. 

Zippy gets excited when he's about to run. I, IMO, do not let a horse run until they calm down. I need to explain this to my BO it's going to be a fight to get Zippy to chill in the arena but in the end I believe it'll be worth it. 

AS for a break....Zip does get the entire winter off from seeing poles and barrels. He gets off from the last show in october to the first show in april. The only thing we do over the winter is we go tram penning once every 2 weeks to switch it up and to keep them in a bit of shape. 


I'll be working Zippy again tomorrow. My sister will be going with me so I'll have her video tape what I am doing with him so you guys can see how he is at home.

Thanks again for all the help guys =) That's why I love this forum!


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## Horsesdontlie (Mar 11, 2011)

Phantomcolt18 said:


> *Horsesdontlie-* (do u want to see poles and barrels videos or just any videos in general because out shows run different events as well)


Any gymkhana events, anything with turning I guess. Lol I would like to see more of how the rider is riding and the horse handling different situations. 



Phantomcolt18 said:


> Zippy gets excited when he's about to run. I, IMO, do not let a horse run until they calm down. I need to explain this to my BO it's going to be a fight to get Zippy to chill in the arena but in the end I believe it'll be worth it.


You are on the right track, the calmer, the more focused the horse can run on the pattern. Its very very common though for the horse to get hot. I find it rarer to find a horse that will run hard and not get a little hot. But hot as in just getting a higher energy level, not getting out of control. I have seen a total of two horses in my rodeos and gymkhanas that entered the area like a calm as anything dead broke horse, run a very fast course and then leave the arena the same calm, dragging feet horse that entered. I think the issue here is the body control, so no swinging hip or hollowed back with a softness on the bit.


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## Phantomcolt18 (Sep 25, 2007)

Horsesdontlie said:


> Any gymkhana events, anything with turning I guess. Lol I would like to see more of how the rider is riding and the horse handling different situations.
> 
> 
> 
> You are on the right track, the calmer, the more focused the horse can run on the pattern. Its very very common though for the horse to get hot. I find it rarer to find a horse that will run hard and not get a little hot. But hot as in just getting a higher energy level, not getting out of control. I have seen a total of two horses in my rodeos and gymkhanas that entered the area like a calm as anything dead broke horse, run a very fast course and then leave the arena the same calm, dragging feet horse that entered. I think the issue here is the body control, so no swinging hip or hollowed back with a softness on the bit.


Okay I'll get them up when I get back from the barn so sometimes later in the afternoon. I'll also get video of how he rides at home as long as my sister is still coming with me.

That's why I love TC. He's one of those horses that I can walk in and he's calm and cool the only time he goes is when I ask him to. I could walk him up and down the fence near the gate with the pattern right in front of him if I wanted to and he could care less. He never used to be like that though. When I first started working with him he would get so excited going into the arena and try to bolt into the pattern. The longest it took me once to calm him down was 10 minutes that was one of the first times. When he would calm down I made him walk/trot the pattern so he realized he goes the pace that *I *want him to not what he wants to. The whole time he was trotting though he would feel like a spring that needed to be released. Now he's a perfect gentleman.


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## Horsesdontlie (Mar 11, 2011)

Phantomcolt18 said:


> That's why I love TC. He's one of those horses that I can walk in and he's calm and cool the only time he goes is when I ask him to. I could walk him up and down the fence near the gate with the pattern right in front of him if I wanted to and he could care less. He never used to be like that though. When I first started working with him he would get so excited going into the arena and try to bolt into the pattern. The longest it took me once to calm him down was 10 minutes that was one of the first times. When he would calm down I made him walk/trot the pattern so he realized he goes the pace that *I *want him to not what he wants to. The whole time he was trotting though he would feel like a spring that needed to be released. Now he's a perfect gentleman.


Ahhh, good for you for getting him to be like that. I love hearing good stories with people that have very very calm gaming horses. I should have got a video of this one horse that was an extreme. The horse I swear would DRAG its feet into the arena, eyes half closed, the rider would do one circle pick up a western pleasure slow canter, then out of no where would burst into a full speed gallop at the timing line. Haha, then would leave the arena the same way it came in.

My boy is hot for everything (trails.....jumping....anything I swear!), so barrel racing probably wasn't the best choice for him, and it did get out of hand before I took charge. Now he still prances, and may have a few moments but is easily controlled and will walk in and out of the gate. He needs to calm down before he runs otherwise he'll blow past all the barrels.


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## hjracer (Jul 19, 2011)

I had a very similar problem with my barrel horse. When I got him, he would run up the fence and refuse to turn on the first barrel. With him, we switched things up and started to run left first. For some reason that clicked with him and he now runs beautifully. Since you tried running left without it helping, you will probably have to do a little more work to correct his problem. It sounds like you have done a pretty good job of ruling out pain. As you know, if he is hurting, that could cause him to suddenly start running out.

One thing I would suggest to do is take a break from running barrels. Several other people have suggested that and it sounds like you are listening, which is good. It could just be that he has gotten sick of running barrels and this is his way of letting you know. Go back and do a lot of slow work. Do a lot of trotting and slow loping through the pattern. You said he only does it at that arena? Have you made any runs on him anywhere else since this problem started? It is important that you don’t keep making more runs while he is running out. Every time he does it will just cement that habit more firmly in his mind. The less he practices a bad habit, the better. Going faster or continuing to go fast when you have a problem never fixed anything. When you have a problem, it only gets worse the faster you go.

I agree with the other people who have suggested doing spirals and serpentines without a barrel. He looks kind of stiff, even in the first run, like he is not really bending and flexing around the barrels. Work on getting him to turn a circle with his nose flexed and soft and his ribcage flexed. When he is turning you want him to be in sort of an arc, with his nose leading around the circle. When he ran out, his nose was tipped in, but he was moving the opposite way, following his shoulder. When you are doing circles, start with a bigger circle. Tip his nose in so it is pointed around where you want to go. With your inside leg, apply pressure behind the girth to get him to bend away. If he moves away and doesn’t follow his nose, used your outside foot up closer to his shoulder to encourage him to more forward, not out. After he does a few steps good, release the pressure and let him walk straight for a few steps before trying it the other way. As he gets better, move into smaller circles for more steps.

A few things I would suggest you doing as a rider is to at least start with two hands. The man in the video rides him one handed almost the whole time. That works for some horses, but with one like Zippy who is a little younger and not as seasoned I would recommend riding with two hands until you get right to the barrel. Grab the horn for the turn, and then go back to two hands in between the barrels. I actually ride two handed all the way around the barrel. You may want to try that, especially in practice. Since you don’t have the saddle horn, you will need more core strength to stop yourself being left behind and hitting your horse in the mouth.
When you do your slow work on the barrels, focus on rate and collection. He never really collects going into the turns. Trot up to the barrel and stop about 6 feet of it, right before you start your pocket. (Work on stopping beforehand, so he can do it well before you go to the barrels.) Then walk or slowly trot around the barrel. Do that at all three. If you do it at a lope, you don’t need to stop, but get him to transition down to a trot while going around the barrel. Lope to the next, and trot around it.
Finally: have you done any groundwork with him? I would focus on getting him to move his forequarters around and flexing. Let me know if you have any questions on that, I had to go through all of it with my horse. 

Sorry for this long-winded post; if you have any questions let me know! Good Luck!


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## heartprints62 (Feb 27, 2010)

Subbing.... there is a lot of great information here!


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## Phantomcolt18 (Sep 25, 2007)

OKay hey guys. Sorry it took so long to get the videos up but I had some issues. 1) storm killed the internet to my house and I just got it back 2) computer was partially fried so I almost lost everything and had to send it away to get fixed and to save stuff. 

*Horsesdontlie*
Here are the videos....again sorry it took so long. Also I have these and only a few others...since my computer fried it messed with some of the files. 

Montana Key Hole




 
I forget the name of this event




 
Slingshot




 
Double Gated PLug




 
Another poles run




 
My BO described it as Zippy is grabbing the bit and running off from the first barrel. We had a show this past saturday and my BO took him in for barrels. Did a large circle to start him and did a collected lope to the barrel and he rode with both hands...Zippy grabbed the bit and ran down the fence line with him again. He said it feels like he is spooking at something over there. But there is nothing different over there from when we started riding there. And this problem started before the night shows.


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## hjracer (Jul 19, 2011)

One thing I noticed is that when he turns, instead of moving in an arc around the circle, he is mostly planting his front and spinning his but around. That is why he broke into a trot going around the end pole in the poles run. Have you ever worked on moving his front end independent from his hind? 

Also, even though it may be tempting, do NOT move to a bigger/stronger bit. Even if that fixes the problem temporarily, eventually he will learn to run through that too and you will need to keep getting bigger and bigger bits until you are all out of bigger bits and you still have a problem. If anything, go back to the basics with a simple snaffle. With my horse, I use a smooth snaffle while training and when I run I use a short shank combination bit. That way, when I am at a rodeo and my horse is more excited and distracted, I have a little bit more control.


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## Phantomcolt18 (Sep 25, 2007)

hjracer- Thanks for the response. Don't worry we're not going to go to a bigger bit. It doesn't seem to be the bit that's the problem I feel like Zippy is not focusing. We are working him in a draw bit right now. I'm debating switching him into a full cheek, my BO gave me full permission to do so if I want to. We are having an equine massage therapist come out in a week to evaluate him.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Helped at a Charmayne James clinic a few years ago and learned alot. She has horses just spend time trotting around the barrels over and over, but you place them about three feet from the barrel and make a total circle at the same distance. But, you go to first one, then next one, then next one in a triangle not a barrel pattern. Also, she trains horses to turn into the barrel with the inside rein lifted high to guide the horse around the barrel, then drop it down after the turn. This way you are bringing his nose and neck into the curve of the turn. 
Your BO is not giving the horse an even ride, he is up and down in the saddle and back and forth. Mainly forces the horse into the turn, not helping him around it.If he was taking the turns correctely, he would be in a continous curve around the barrel with his head in a level position, not high up like he runs. I don't think Zip has learned to go into the pocket relaxed and flexed
Zippy is spoiled pure and simple. He has learned to run out at the first barrel and will continue to do so until he is not allowed to do it anymore. He is not spooking at anything, this is a learned behavior.I have helped my daughter and granddaughter work and train their barrel horses. My thoughts would be set up the barrel in the first position. A couple of times a day while riding him, walk to the barrel and stop him as he is facing the fence about halfway around the barrel. Let him stand there and then walk away. I would do this over and over making sure he is flexing his neck and giving to the pocket. Then slowly do the same at a trot. Don't do any loping until he is flexing in the pocket. Do this over and over. Do that first barrel, then go do something else. No patterns until he is doing the first pocket close to the barrel without fail.
As far as his acting up before the run, ride him slowly into the arena, then dismount and walk him away from the gate, remount and do something else. When you get back to the gate, dismount and walk out of the gate. Do not let him even trot into the arena for now, after a bit of the walk in and dismount, do it with walking in and standing still, no prancing no jigging, just standing. When he stands, walk into arena and do something else.
I would do this bit of training, but no barrels, no poles or anything else for awhile. Slow arena work, trail rides, and the one barrel slow work. 
This is a bad habit, nothing else. He is sour and is running past the first barrel because he can.


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## hjracer (Jul 19, 2011)

I agree in that I don't think he is spooking, especially since he doesn't do it at slower speeds. Don't keep making runs while he is running out. The more he gets to practice running out the more ingrained it will become. Lots of slow work will help. Go out of the arena and walk in. Stop and score the barrels (stand and face them). Wait until he relaxes. If he is really lunging and trying to go, circle him back around and try again. Once he is relaxed, walk back out of the arena. Do that until he can walk calmly in and stand and score the barrels. Make him wait for at least 30 seconds to 1 minute, or until he relaxes ( sighs, cocks a leg, lowers his head). Then trot him through the pattern. Some people have suggested doing a triangle pattern around the barrels (barrel 1, barrel 3, barrel 2, home, making all right turns). That is a good idea, because it will teach him to listen to YOU instead of blindly running a pattern. Don't be afraid to trot through a lot. A horse that is in decent shape can maintain a medium trot without much difficulty. Also make sure you focus on your position going around the barrel. If you are accidentally giving him mixed signals it could cause him to get frustrated. Focus on keeping your hands low and quiet and getting him to bend and push with is hindquarters instead of just spinning it around.


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## Phantomcolt18 (Sep 25, 2007)

wyominggrandma said:


> Helped at a Charmayne James clinic a few years ago and learned alot. She has horses just spend time trotting around the barrels over and over, but you place them about three feet from the barrel and make a total circle at the same distance. But, you go to first one, then next one, then next one in a triangle not a barrel pattern. Also, she trains horses to turn into the barrel with the inside rein lifted high to guide the horse around the barrel, then drop it down after the turn. This way you are bringing his nose and neck into the curve of the turn.
> Your BO is not giving the horse an even ride, he is up and down in the saddle and back and forth. Mainly forces the horse into the turn, not helping him around it.If he was taking the turns correctely, he would be in a continous curve around the barrel with his head in a level position, not high up like he runs. I don't think Zip has learned to go into the pocket relaxed and flexed
> Zippy is spoiled pure and simple. He has learned to run out at the first barrel and will continue to do so until he is not allowed to do it anymore. He is not spooking at anything, this is a learned behavior.I have helped my daughter and granddaughter work and train their barrel horses. My thoughts would be set up the barrel in the first position. A couple of times a day while riding him, walk to the barrel and stop him as he is facing the fence about halfway around the barrel. Let him stand there and then walk away. I would do this over and over making sure he is flexing his neck and giving to the pocket. Then slowly do the same at a trot. Don't do any loping until he is flexing in the pocket. Do this over and over. Do that first barrel, then go do something else. No patterns until he is doing the first pocket close to the barrel without fail.
> As far as his acting up before the run, ride him slowly into the arena, then dismount and walk him away from the gate, remount and do something else. When you get back to the gate, dismount and walk out of the gate. Do not let him even trot into the arena for now, after a bit of the walk in and dismount, do it with walking in and standing still, no prancing no jigging, just standing. When he stands, walk into arena and do something else.
> ...


thank you!

I thought Zip was a tad spoiled too, just didn't want to say anything. And I know he's not spooking at anything because after the show I took him over to the first barrel while on the ground and he could have cared less about what was over there. 

I have been working him without a barrel for about a week now. I've been doing serpantines and spirals and the other basics like circles, stopping, lead changes, and collection. He's been doing beautifully at home. Do you think I should incoorporate a barrel back into the equation?

At the show we had on Saturday night I kept telling my BO to NOT let Zippy go into the pattern until he was calm. A calmer horse is a horse that is going to focus more IMO. TC used to be so fired up before running a pattern was ridiculous. I refuse to have a hot horse. It took some work, but very rewarding work, but now TC walks into the arena like a perfect gentleman and I could stand him facing a pattern forever and he'd be relaxed; his entire body would be relaxed. The only time he's allowed to go is when I say. After a pattern he walks out the same way he came in, like a perfect gentleman. 

I'll have to do the same thing with Zip only I'll be on the ground directing my BO. The only problem with working in the arena is we don't have instant access to it. We are planning on asking if we can come down once or twice a week to work on stuff.


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## PaintedFury (Aug 18, 2010)

The biggest problem that I see is lack of collection. He is choppy around the barrels, and throughout the pole pattern. That and he tends to move on his front end, which is a big part of his not being collected. He needs a lot of work on his collects and drive from his rear end. He also needs to learn to bend his entire body instead of whipping his rear end out in a turn. He is very stiff. Once a horse knows a pattern, there is no reason to work them several times a week. His switching leads constantly points to an imbalance in his movement. When he comes off the first barrel he should still be in the right lead until he is asked to change to the left lead about half way to the second barrel, and then he should stay on the left lead for the rest of the pattern. I have an exercise that I use all of the time for all of my horses. I have a diagram drawn up, but it is on my desktop, and I'm currently on my laptop. I'll try to get it posted tomorrow with the directions. It's great to help get a horse bending and collecting. And it doesn't ask for a whole lot of either when you start it, because you start big and gradually work down to a small pattern, and no barrels or poles required.


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## Horsesdontlie (Mar 11, 2011)

Okay, glad to see some new videos. I really got to see the rider more, which I wanted to see. 

Its going to be hard to do, but this change (even with a large circle and trying to collect ) is going to take time. Those two things are only steps to start helping set up for the barrel on any horse, including ones that doesn't have any problems at the first barrel. Its not going to solve your problem, what's going to solve it is slow work and giving your BO lessons on becoming calmer in the saddle. Honestly he is everywhere while he rides. The horse is unclear what signals may be rider mistakes (off balance catching horse in mouth) or if he should listen to them. It gets them second guessing, and ignoring ALL cues in general. 

Now I was exactly like it, I thought for running hard and a fast run I had to be active myself. I developed chicken wings that started pumping out of tune with the horse movement, my body was getting thrown everywhere....eventually one of the more respected horse people in the show approached me, and told me what I looked like. The best riders at the show grounds were the quietest riders. One girl would come into the arena with a crop, felt how her horse was feeling within its first few steps, and with a drop of reins she would 80% of the time throw the crop in the air as the horse took off because she would decide she didn't need it. 

I swear this girl barely did anything. Her hand movements were minimal, she didn't kick her horse, and she easily stayed in the saddle as her horse hauled butt around the course. On the way home she would drop the reins, and the horse would do one circle and come to a stop on its own, she would hop off and walk out with the horse trotting at her heels. I have always aspired to have a calm, kickass run like she would on that horse. She was the on that trained it from a yearling till now. 

I would say the 'no barrel work' should last until the horse is great at the exercises. Until he can easily canter on the spiral, have soft collection at all gaits (Doesn't just mean head down....means the horse is balanced and moving under itself) leg yields the fore and the hind easily at walk trot and canter. Is easy to rate and stop....then I suggest slowly bringing the barrels back. Most practices you want to be slow and just well done slow rounds. 

A main thing that I think will help too is having your BO TROT at shows. Yes I know it sucks, but TROT the course. That way he is going at a speed that he can guarantee that he will make that turn. Do that for two or three shows, then slowly canter the course. 

Now I wish I could find good examples of practicing barrels, but i couldn't find any good ones. x.x Now I have my own most recent video but Jake and I haven't done any work with barrels since October (the last show we were at), so we are both a little rusty. It is a poor exmaple...but it is one. Plus Jake is naturally poor in the balance department, so barrel racing really isn't something that comes easily for us. He likes to swing his butt and over bend, which is something I would be working on a lot if I was showing. But currently I am not showing barrels or in gymkhanas right now. 






This is a little faster than I like practicing at after the first barrel, but its a play by ear on how fast we go and what makes him happy. Then at the end of my run I don't just stop and end my workout, I keep going once I am home, often doing a couple more, well balanced circles and a canter, then a couple more at a well balanced trot before finally letting him relax. 

Bad thing (amongst other things) I did was letting him run home, honestly after a stride or two after the last barrel you should head to the left fence line with no increases in speed. I was letting him have fun, since I do not practice on a regular basis. When I did, he never got to run home during practice, only at events.


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## PaintedFury (Aug 18, 2010)

Ok, I couldn't find the scanned diagram that I drew of the exercise, but I did find the instructions that go along with it. I will try to find the drawn diagram itself and re-scan it later today.

Start with large circles and gradually work down to small tight circles. Make sure that the horse is not dropping his shoulder in the circles and is keeping his body bent into the circle and driving from behind instead of swinging his butt out.

Exercise 1 Directions:

1.	Place 4 cones, or barrels, or pole bending pole in a rectangle large enough for the horse to stand in, for reference points only. This is optional. I have used soda cans in the past to help me keep track of where I am. Or if you are in a dirt arena, the tracks usually suffice to keep track.
2.	Start in the center of the rectangle. Start at a walk and work up to a lope on the small tight circles. Lope the large circles around the pattern.
3.	Do 4 tight clockwise (right-handed) circles.
4.	Change leads, and do 4 counterclockwise (left-handed) circles.
5.	Serpentine between points A and B to the left of point C into 4 clockwise(right-handed) circles.
6.	Do a lead change then do 4 ½ counterclockwise (left-handed) circles.
a.	Note: When doing the small, tight circles, do not allow the horse to drop his shoulder or ribcage, keep them up.
7.	Stop.
8.	Quickly back up 5-6 steps.
9.	Do a clockwise (right-handed) rollback 180 degrees.
10.	Lope off into 3 clockwise (right-handed) circles.
a.	Note: the rollback should have your horse in the correct lead.
11.	Stop.
12.	Quickly back up 5-6 steps.
13.	Do a counterclockwise (left-handed) rollback 180 degrees.
14.	Lope off into 3 counterclockwise (left-handed) circles.
15.	Stop.
16.	Quickly back up 5-6 steps.
17.	Stop.
18.	Relax.


I will either find the diagram, or draw a new one, which I hope I don't have to, but I will just to have it.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

The biggest thing that jumps out at me is that the horse is so straight through the body, and the rider has zero control of anything behind the head/neck. He steers the head and the body just kind of swings along behind - it's why the turns are no good. 

This horse needs to learn to bend it's body, and then turn with a bend in its body. 

The rider needs to learn how to control the horses body with his body. The horse gets away with running off the first barrel because the rider is only riding the head. He tries to steer the head, but the body just runs where it wants to go.


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