# Cart Safety



## Foxhunter

Not as far as I know! 

The horse is attached to the shafts with leather straps through metal hooks, to break free would involve being able to release both these straps. .

If, somehow there was a 'quick release' on the metal on the shafts then chances are they could come free as the horse pulled.


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## Aprilswissmiss

Nope! Some carts have an "emergency" brake, but that is really only used for going downhill so the breeching doesn't put all the weight of the carriage onto the horse. That's about all the safety that most carts have built in.


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## Hondo

Are simple one horse carts ever attached using a single tree?


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## Hondo

Found this. Ever see this setup?













Edit: What are the back loops?


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## CaliforniaDreaming

Nope! I know from first hand experience. I called it The Big Splat. Horse went left, I went right and got dumped out. He went around twice on his own still pulling the easy exit … ooops, meant easy entry, and stopped. We haven’t driven since, and that was going on 4 years ago, but I think this summer I might finally get back into it. 

Lessons learned … have a wedge seat if driving alone. And I was glad I was wearing my helmet and that I had my phone on me because I ended up breaking my leg falling 32” onto sand, must’ve been the angle. And thank goodness I always lock the arena gate. 



> Are simple one horse carts ever attached using a single tree?


Usually always in my experience. I think my friend’s marathon carriage has a singletree. My easyexit cart does.


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## CaliforniaDreaming

Hondo said:


> Found this. Ever see this setup?
> 
> 
> View attachment 1005593
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: What are the back loops?


Footmans loops. You run your holdback strap through that, and wrap those back around the shaft.


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## Hondo

CaliforniaDreaming What brand is your easyexit?


Hmm, so even if the single tree had an emergency release the holdback straps would still be attached and pulling?


I'm thinking of a setup similar to this but for one horse. I have plans to only walk.


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## CaliforniaDreaming

Hondo said:


> CaliforniaDreaming What brand is your easyexit?
> 
> 
> Hmm, so even if the single tree had an emergency release the holdback straps would still be attached and pulling?
> 
> 
> I'm thinking of a setup similar to this but for one horse. I have plans to only walk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 1005595



Kingston brand. It’s basically the typical cheapish easy entry cart on the market. I just upgraded to better wheels and stuff. I couldn’t really afford a Frey or Wagner at the time (still can’t, really). 

Yep, pretty much. I know that some marathon single trees have loops instead of hooks where you can put quick release buckles on the end of the traces instead of putting the slots over the singletree hook (but that’s mainly for ease of hitching up rather than safety or breakaway ability). The holdbacks will keep the cart attached to the breeching.

Never driven a Forecart myself, but I know they have shafts for singles.


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## dogpatch

Quote:
"Hmm, so even if the single tree had an emergency release the holdback straps would still be attached and pulling?


I'm thinking of a setup similar to this but for one horse. I have plans to only walk."



Hondo, while a lot of people use forecarts for recreational driving, they are basically intended as a means to attach modern agricultural implements with a team or single. The great drawback of using a forecart is that the balance of the vehicle is stablized by the weight of the implement. Without an implement as a counterweight, the weight across the horse's back can be tremendous.

If you are putting your toe in the driving water to test it, you might want to do some considerable research. I know how tenaciously you seek out information and understanding a bit about the mechanics of driving equipment will put you in a much safer place when selecting those first pieces of equipment. You can go to the Carriage Association of America, www.caaonline.com and visit their bookstore (I even have a book there called "Understanding Harness"), or The American Driving Society (don't know their addy). Even your question about an emergency release shows you're thinking ahead about safety. The ADS site may list driving clubs in your area that offer introduction-to-driving clinics.

A lot of how-to books put the horse (training) before the cart (understanding the equipment) and I feel that may perhaps lead to less than optimal decisions when selecting vehicle and harness, which need to compliment each other. Needless to say, one of the best ways to avoid trouble is having a horse that is comfortable in its work environment.


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## Foxhunter

Here in the U.K. To insure driving horses costs as much as insuring a racehorse or three day eventer! That is how risky driving can be. Mostly, I think it is because of the cart scratching up vehicles rather than major accidents although I have seen a few of those! 

You can see by the picture you posted that the horse is attached to the cart both on the sides and at the rear of itmwasnt then there would be no real way it could be pulled or braked.


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## horselovinguy

This is showing "the single tree"... the bar the harness traces attach to. 
In my experience this is and can be separate from the shafts...the horse attaches to the "tree", the tree attaches to the pulled conveyance....








They can be made of wood or metal.
The "long straight piece" you describe, what I was taught is called the pole.

My friend has this [see below]cart for a pony.
This one is available in mini, pony and horse size.
The "single-tree" is still there though and as a easy entry style, this brand may differ from others in attaching harness traces than some others. This one can be found at Stateline Tack. 
Price is not bad, but shipping is a doozy!!








I've never seen a "quick-release" of actual harness... 
The red singletree above clearly shows where you drop the pin to attach to what ever you pull..
My friends cart you have to actually unhook each trace to release the animal from between the shafts to move forward. Some use a chain link slipped in a slot, some are buckled in.

There is also pulling a pin yes, pull the pin and the horses can now move away still connected to the tree, but the pin is what connects horse, harness and tree to the conveyance such as a wagon.
When you get to team pulling of 2 or more...harness still follows same principles but a lot more harness to connect in the right order so it works correctly, efficiently and safely.

Pulling the pin is what the Budweiser Clydesdale team does to move the wagon or horses separately, then each team of 2 is attached till you reach a hitch of 8 matched beauties.
Depending upon the type of pulled vehicle you can also have a tree that hooks off and hangs from the harness collar, what you see on work harness and for draft horses or even oxen. 
Leave this custom harness though to Budweiser for unique, beautiful and _heavy!_

Here are the Bud horses and a close look at their harness will show you the tree from the collar and each horse has a single tree behind, a pole between each pair and all hook together by clips...
Each horse pulls individually, but connected then by a doubletree they pull together as one but sharing the exertion level.
So singletree to doubletree to pin/clip that connects team to team to wagon.











In a disaster that happened during a demonstration the ability to release each team and each horse one-by-one unscathed, uninjured by their handlers although the first impression was utter devastation and injuries to the team...was watching a miracle occur.












https://horses-world.com/2018/07/19/experienced-budweiser-clydesdale-horses-accident-video-below/


I second dogpatch, do the research first as there are many types of driving harnesses and depending upon the exact cart or what you plan to pull it makes a difference in the style of harness you purchase and train with.
Enjoy the journey...driving is a lot of fun and different that riding astride obviously. Challenging and things different to do.
:runninghorse2:...


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## dogpatch

Hondo said:


> Are simple one horse carts ever attached using a single tree?



Hondo, the reason for the singletree on any horsedrawn conveyance is to prevent the highly mobile shoulder of the horse running into a solid obstruction (the vehicle) at every stride. There are differences in the type of collar the horse is wearing, as to how much damage can be done without a singletree.


Generally speaking, when a breast collar is used (flexible strap that goes around the chest, it tends to rest just above the shoulder joint, which is in fact the most highly mobile part of the shoulderblade. The singletree is particularly important for horses wearing breast collars because there is so much movement, that the shoulder would be quickly rubbed raw - or worse - if the traces were attached solidly to the vehicle without benefit of the swinging singletree (also known as swingletree, or swinglebar).


When the horse wears a neck collar, the "draft", that is to say, the weight of the load transmitted to the shoulders, is lifted several inches above the point of the shoulder, to a more stable area of the shoulderblade. (In theory). Because the shoulder does not "move" as much under the elevated point of draft, some old traditional carriages had the traces attached solidly to the carriage, on a "fixed splinter bar". This method is not in favor with modern carriages. There were plenty of ruined shoulders on Victorian carriage horses. I doubt you'd ever see a modern working draft horse hitched without a singletree (but plenty of other correctable harnessing errors are common).


You will see light carts with hooks in place of singletree. These carts are generally of the lightest construction, intended mostly for show ring use for a few minutes at a time. The show ring cart also dispenses with breeching, which slows/stops the vehicle, by the way the shafts are attached to the harness saddle instead of the strap (breeching) that goes around the rump. A vehicle that lacks singletree or breeching attachments would generally not be optimal for recreational driving (there may be exceptions with some mini vehicles.)


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## dogpatch

Here's a great video from my friend Mindy Shroder, showing how the singletree protects her pony's shoulders from rubbing during a brisk trot:


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## dogpatch

Here is a picture of a carriage with a fixed splinter bar. The transverse bar in front of the front wheels with the "spool" shaped things on it is solidly attached to the carriage and has no swing. The "spools" are called roller bolts. A special type of traces with a "noose" at the ends slide over the roller bolts. This carriage would always be used with neck collar and hame style harness.


Edit: The picture wouldn't load, so I'll try again later.


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## QtrBel

Well it ate my answer. I typed out one on the desk top not long after you posted. I'll recommend looking up Rural Heritage and they have a q&a under the Title - Is my pioneer forecart to heavy for pleasure driving? Short answer from me is any two wheeled vehicle can be an issue. I have a Pioneer and love it. I've used it single, double and for larger hitches. With and without equipment or weights. Drafts and smaller saddle breeds. The harness, the saddle, the way everything fits together, your balance, where you are seated and if you lean all play a part. You can make the adjustments so that it is not a problem to hitch to and use. I've also used mine single for multi day trail drives through different country. Not all smooth.


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## QtrBel

My harness is custom because of an accident. It was made specifically for ease of going together and coming apart. 

After the accident I was the one unhitching and removing one of the team from the top of a car. No problem. I always recommend working with someone that knows what they are doing for all stages and harness/unharness, hook and unhook until you can can do it blindfolded in your sleep.


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## Hondo

I'll bet the picture had an extension HF doesn't accept.


WELL! Yall'er getting me up to speed a little.


Actually, sixty four years ago when I was fourteen I harnessed a full draft team collars and all. Had to use a stool and it was hard. Only did it once but before and after that I drove the team mowing, dragging, springtoothing, hauling loose hay, pulling hay up into the barn.


But that was many many lifetimes ago.


So to me, a single tree was just so two horses could be attached to a double tree. Wrong-O! That was a great video. Absolutely makes sense. I think the pictures I've seen of carts were just the short term deals. So that clearly answers my question about the use of singletrees on a single cart.


On the quick release I was worried about one trace disengaging and the other not so I though a single tree setup would just have one release.


I saw that Clydesdale wreck a couple years or so ago. Very impressed with the calmness of those horses.


I would not even consider going without a hold back and breaching. It should not be too hard to design something where the hold backs would hold back but release with a bit of forward tension...I think......maybe.


The cart I have in mind would have the option of standing or sitting and would have that bar across the front to hold onto.


Here's the deal. Hondo is not a real good candidate for driving, probably. But he is still going through rehab trimming for his fores and IMO is not ready to carry any extra weight on them. But he is getting to need much more exercise than I can give him. I have a motorcycle with low gearing that I have led him with in the past and he's fine with it. But even in the Nation Forest (700 feet away) that has to be done on roads or gnarly motorized trails.


There is ample areas with nice soft footing where he could do all the miles needed but a motorized vehicle can't just wander around anywhere it wants to anymore.


The other day when he was wearing me out by having to hold his tail in one hand going up some grades the idea of driving came back to me. He might be ready to ride by the time he is trained but I'm not getting any younger and it might be a nice option to drive.


He has done some big spin and bolts in the past. The last 3-4 years it was only spins. But once I had him tied to an overhead limb while I was doing trail work and it broke. He bolted but got twisted up in the lead. He stopped and just stood there looking at me and waiting for me to walk over and untangle him.


So even though he does have a tendency to react, he has been very keen in many ways for taking care of himself.


So he might be ok driving. And I'm told he is mostly Morgan.


But after reading some threads on this forum and others, I decided I wanted a quick emergency dismount available but would want the cart at least to disconnect also. Not worried about cart damage at all. Just horse damage.


So anyhow, this is great that single trees are standard and really should be required. There'll be a lot of time while training to come up with a release for the hold backs and tree.


I'm wanting to use positive reinforcement mainly or entirely if possible. And I'm just barely starting on that.


So I've got teaching voice commands, longlining, dragging stuff, lots and lots to do. 



For a horse that knows me, trusts me, and has carried me all over the place, how long to train to drive. 3 months? 6months? I know it depends.


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## QtrBel

I'll have to find a picture of the clips I use. The only ones that would even take any time are the hold backs and it would depend on how quick you can unbuckle. Easier to untangle a team or more than a single in my experience but both can be done quickly. A lot depends on the horse. If they are going to fight it won't be quick, easy or pretty. My mate that ended up on the top of a car(flattened it) - two legs draped down the sides of the front doors and back legs draped over the back window and down the sides never moved until she was unhooked and asked to back. Which she did quite calmly. Her team mate also stood there pressed into the side of the pole and car until she was unhooked. 

The only single I was involved in was a non event. Again a very calm horse that laid quietly until unhooked. 

I am more worried about something like this which I hope attaches. It came off the internet so some of you may have seen it already.


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## QtrBel

Meant to add. For me each harness has it's own hold backs so clips work.


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## Hondo

Wow! Not sure I'm glad you were able to upload that pic!  JK


The plan, if it goes to fruition, is to only walk. Hondo needs lots of foot falls but nothing on the order of trotting or any heavy foot falls.


I'm still thinking about Foxhunter's comment that insurance companies use the same rates as race horses. Sounding like carting at speed is a young athletic persons thing. I've bailed off a M/C at speed many times but when many years younger.


I no longer care one whit about speed. I just like being out there with my horse. As open as the forest is around here, I've also thought it would be easy to carry some hay if needed and water. Or a full camping setup and stay a while.


I did experience one run away at around 12 or so. Sis and I were using two tin cans with a string to talk.....across the road that I later drove the team up. You can guess the rest.


Do they still teach horses to gee and haw?


Once when I was 10 maybe I was sitting on the end of a log on a load of logs dad was bringing in to the house to cut up for firewood. We were going down a fairly steep hill and he was standing up putting a lot of weight on the gee pole. It broke and he went over head first. Didn't get ran over and the team stopped at the bottom. That just seems sooooooo long ago.


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## Kaifyre

@Hondo If you're looking into driving at all, Barry Hook has a ton of excellent videos on the YouTubes. He's a quite talented horseman from across the pond and trains horses to drive in a way I like a whole lot. He doesn't have a lot of videos that actually showcase, like, how he trains, but if you watch his videos even the ones of a finished horse or pony driving along nicely, there are always tidbits here and there that you can pick up. I trained Thunder to drive almost exclusively off his … not method, per se, but more like manner. He has a few videos as well about fitting a harness, why certain vehicles or harness types aren't necessarily good for certain purposes, etc. 

This video is a good example of his training and how he handles a horse that is misbehaving. I'm not entirely sure I could be that calm if Dreams were standing on his hind legs in harness lol. 






When I started looking into driving Thunder, I read every book and magazine article and blog post I could get my hands on. I watched all the videos. I'm still learning - I read an article about lines of draft the other day any why a collar and hames isn't necessarily the best choice for pulling a cart. There are SO many different things to learn when you're driving …. I highly recommend doing as much research as possible, about every aspect of driving, before you actually do anything. You have a brain so I'm sure you know this already lol. 

-- Kai


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## Hondo

What is the light colored area where the breaching sits. Looks like it's clipped or something.


Starting to look like I'm approaching another rabbit hole.


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## CaliforniaDreaming

Hondo said:


> What is the light colored area where the breaching sits. Looks like it's clipped or something.
> 
> 
> Starting to look like I'm approaching another rabbit hole.



Oh, that's a trace clip.


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## dogpatch

Hondo said:


> Wow! Not sure I'm glad you were able to upload that pic!  JK
> 
> 
> The plan, if it goes to fruition, is to only walk. Hondo needs lots of foot falls but nothing on the order of trotting or any heavy foot falls.
> 
> 
> I'm still thinking about Foxhunter's comment that insurance companies use the same rates as race horses. Sounding like carting at speed is a young athletic persons thing. I've bailed off a M/C at speed many times but when many years younger.
> 
> 
> I no longer care one whit about speed. I just like being out there with my horse. As open as the forest is around here, I've also thought it would be easy to carry some hay if needed and water. Or a full camping setup and stay a while.
> 
> 
> I did experience one run away at around 12 or so. Sis and I were using two tin cans with a string to talk.....across the road that I later drove the team up. You can guess the rest.
> 
> 
> Do they still teach horses to gee and haw?
> 
> 
> Once when I was 10 maybe I was sitting on the end of a log on a load of logs dad was bringing in to the house to cut up for firewood. We were going down a fairly steep hill and he was standing up putting a lot of weight on the gee pole. It broke and he went over head first. Didn't get ran over and the team stopped at the bottom. That just seems sooooooo long ago.



If you've got the place to use it, your best option may be to build a simple drag, or "planker" that is very light weight, that you can stand on, so you don't have to walk. You can add something in front or in back of you on the sled to lean on for balance. Or you can put a bale of hay on it to sit on. A breast collar isn't optimal for dragging things, but you might be able to make do. This way you wouldn't have to invest in a carriage and full harness.


Yes, they still teach gee and haw.


Your plan to have something to sit or stand on depends on whether you're talking two or four wheels, or NO wheels (sled). On a two wheel cart, the axle is a fulcrum and the shafts are long levers. The more weight you have forward of the axle/fulcrum, the more weight will bear down across the horse's back, and it is only spread over the width of the narrow harness saddle. Just shifting a foot forward can make a huge difference to the horse's back. I wish I could post a blog post I wrote on cart balance, but I'm not allowed to do that here.


You should follow your dreams about trail driving! We had breathtaking spectacular experiences with our driving horses in the Cascade mountains of Oregon! Being an already experienced horseperson, you're well on your way! Just need to fill in some blanks. Your life's experience will make you consider your risks carefully, which will help you prepare to be safe!


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## dogpatch

QtrBel said:


> Well it ate my answer. I typed out one on the desk top not long after you posted. I'll recommend looking up Rural Heritage and they have a q&a under the Title - Is my pioneer forecart to heavy for pleasure driving? Short answer from me is any two wheeled vehicle can be an issue. I have a Pioneer and love it. I've used it single, double and for larger hitches. With and without equipment or weights. Drafts and smaller saddle breeds. The harness, the saddle, the way everything fits together, your balance, where you are seated and if you lean all play a part. You can make the adjustments so that it is not a problem to hitch to and use. I've also used mine single for multi day trail drives through different country. Not all smooth.



QtrBel, a lot of people would want to lynch me if they thought I was disparaging their forecarts as recreational vehicles! LOL! So believe me, I wasn't making a generalization. But the thought you put into optimizing its performance as a recreational vehicle is plainly based on experience, skill and knowledge. Especially if the forecart is equipped with brakes, I kind of feel that it's maybe not a beginner's tool, but something for a person who has the background to finesse it for a particular purpose.


But that's what we're here talking about, no? Aspects of driving that the newly-intrigued would never think of before making initial purchases. You and I can bend the tool to our purpose. I know a whole lot of drivers who have no idea how to drive a two wheeler of any kind with the greatest efficiency. Not only for the cart, but for the comfort of both horse and driver.


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## dogpatch

Hondo said:


> Starting to look like I'm approaching another rabbit hole.



NO! NO! Don't feel that way! Get excited! What an extraordinary NEW way to experience life! If your primary objective is to get Hondo some exercise, you can get started almost immediately while you gather information! And with very little investment.


The only thing that's unnerving is being at the beginning.


Leap, and the net will appear!


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## dogpatch

Hondo, here is a picture of a vehicle with a fixed splinter bar. The yellow arrow points to the splinter bar. Image By JOHN LLOYD from Concrete, Washington, United States - C Sprung, CC BY 2.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=67100206


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## Hondo

Found this but I'm still not clear on what a splinter bar is unless it's a pole that turns the front two wheels of a carriage. Our hay wagon was sort of like that with a frame from Sears/Sawbuck and a Model A frame. The tongue turned the front wheels in the same manner that the steering wheel did. Plus we had the mechanical brakes of the Model A connected to a g-pole of sorts. Lots of names here. A speaking tube even. Categoryarts Of The Horse-Drawn Vehicle - Eurêka


The sled is a good idea for starting. I used to ride one dragging land after it was plowed (with a 12 inch turning plow). Man's work. Too hard for a kid in rocks and roots.


A sled would solve lots of problems. Just a single tree hooked to a sled. Could even have the single tree tied to sled with a quick release knot with the rope at hand for a quick release if something happened. There's a guy on the forum up in Idaho that made one out of a car hood.


Some of the old hoods were made of pretty thick durable material. Where I'm thinking about is covered in Buffalo Grass and soft soil so it'd be fairly smooth. I could even practice releasing the sled and stopping Hondo to get us both used to it.


And it would remove any weight from his back which I don't want at the moment. Thinking out loud here.


Sitting on a haybale is great!!  Perfect! Red checkered shirt with a straw in my mouth. And a big grin on my face. Going backwards in time here.


No hold back or brakes needed. And time to think about what direction in carting I'd prefer for the future.


About the rabbit hole. I have a penchant for seeking rabbit holes. It may be a personality defect but it's one I have to deal with.


CaliforniaDreaming This is the area I was wondering about. Wondering if the hair is clipped to keep from causing sores or what?







​


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## QtrBel

I think more to do with the color of the horse. I've never clipped that area and never had wear issues. Again fitted correctly and with a forgiving material and there should be no sores or sore spots developing. That is for tail lightness, The other that I noticed looks just like a trace clip to keep the horse cool in heavier work during colder weather.


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## Hondo

The screen shot is not very clear. The video shows both sides being the same and doesn't look like color. Really looks like the hair is clipped.


Have to get up to around 3 minutes to see both sides are the same.


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## QtrBel

Yes, where the breeching is the hair is clipped. As it doesn't appear to go all the way down the side it could be that that horse has very thick coat that knots when rubbed. Similar to kids that wet their arms and rub until arm hair is knotted. Makes it uncomfortable and can be painful if the knots get too tight so they shave just those spots.


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## Hondo

Ahhh. That makes sense. Haha. Had totally forgotten about making knots on the wet arm hair. Junior high was a long time ago.


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## CaliforniaDreaming

Hondo said:


> CaliforniaDreaming This is the area I was wondering about. Wondering if the hair is clipped to keep from causing sores or what?
> 
> 
> View attachment 1005651
> [/LEFT]


I watched the whole video. It’s the same on both sides so it’s looking just like any trace clip I’ve ever done. Not so much for sores but for a working horse and keeping them from sweating up too much. Barry Hook lives in England and the horses are probably living rough in the field, so blanketing might be a bare minimum. (Just speculating at that point) Trace clipping takes its name from working cart horses and carriage traces. Leave on hair, but shave off the parts where the horses will sweat the most. 

Here’s one picture of Mitch with a low (low low) trace clip. Just enough off to keep him from sweating (didn’t work, darn SoCal “fall” weather) but not enough to need to blanket unless it were really cold. First year I had him and so I only took off a bare minimum and got bolder as time went on (except I actually didn’t clip this year so he’s floofy).

I’ll dig up more photos off my computer. I’m not sure if I have any of him from behind where he’s clipped where the breeching sits (and I didn’t start driving until 2012 when he was body clipped) but the video of Barry’s horse looks just like his trace clips.


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## QtrBel

I watched or rather selectively watched most of the vid and never saw that the clip went along the belly at any point. I was hoping for a good side shot to see but there just wasn't one I could find.


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## CaliforniaDreaming

I saw the horses clipped up on the neck. Couldn’t tell with the halter and bridle in so it might just be a low trace (or a high that left the head undone ... done that a few times)


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## Hondo

Haha. When you posted trace clip my mind saw a clip on the end of a trace for attachment. So I thought...no no "the hair".


Oh well, I got it now.


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## Hondo

Reading about how much a horse can pull on some old HF threads I came across Tiller's International.


They say a horse can pull a draft force (tension in the hames or lbf which is term for pounds of force "not torque") of 10-12% of body weight all day.


That would be 100 lbs of force for Hondo. According to the first pictured chart, on level firm ground with pneumatic tires, that would translate to a 1,000 pound wagon/cart load, GVW.


But farther on, with a 10%(or 6 degree grade), 100 pounds of draft would be added to Hondo. If required to do that all day, it would be double the recommended. In that case, the total weight of the load would need to be reduced to 500 pounds.


But maybe he could rest on the downhill? How much would that accommodate the double load going up the 10% grade?


At a 20% grade (11 degrees), the draft would increase by 20% of the GVW. Hondo would be asked to pull 300 pounds of force or 30% of his weight. To keep it down to 100 pounds of draft, the cart/wagon weight plus the rider and all would need to be reduced to 333 pounds of GVW.


That would seem to be getting down to bare cart/wagon and rider weight.


Is my math and the link correct?



https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...70582817/Estimating+Wagon+Draft+TechGuide.pdf


Edit: the 10-12% estimate given is listed for oxen but other links put horses at around 10% also


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## dogpatch

Hondo said:


> Reading about how much a horse can pull on some old HF threads I came across Tiller's International.
> 
> 
> They say a horse can pull a draft force (tension in the hames or lbf which is term for pounds of force "not torque") of 10-12% of body weight all day.
> 
> 
> That would be 100 lbs of force for Hondo. According to the first pictured chart, on level firm ground with pneumatic tires, that would translate to a 1,000 pound wagon/cart load, GVW.
> 
> 
> But farther on, with a 10%(or 6 degree grade), 100 pounds of draft would be added to Hondo. If required to do that all day, it would be double the recommended. In that case, the total weight of the load would need to be reduced to 500 pounds.
> 
> 
> But maybe he could rest on the downhill? How much would that accommodate the double load going up the 10% grade?
> 
> 
> At a 20% grade (11 degrees), the draft would increase by 20% of the GVW. Hondo would be asked to pull 300 pounds of force or 30% of his weight. To keep it down to 100 pounds of draft, the cart/wagon weight plus the rider and all would need to be reduced to 333 pounds of GVW.
> 
> 
> That would seem to be getting down to bare cart/wagon and rider weight.
> 
> 
> Is my math and the link correct?
> 
> 
> 
> https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...70582817/Estimating+Wagon+Draft+TechGuide.pdf
> 
> 
> Edit: the 10-12% estimate given is listed for oxen but other links put horses at around 10% also



Tim Harrigan and I sparred many a time over draft on the old Rural Heritage Magazine forum. Tim is a very technical person.


Driving a carriage successfully is dependent upon many factors, including physical fitness of the animal, and speed, and the informed selection of equipment and its correct adjustment. Obviously oxen do not speed, and oxen are Tim's area of particular expertise. One of the reasons I harp on harnessing efficiency is because it directly affects the animal's ability to draw the load. 



Oxen are also not built like horses. Their shoulder structure, where "the rubber meets the road" with harnessing, is quite different from equine harness.



There were many dynamometer type tests done in Victorian times, all conflicting and all inconclusive. 



How much can Hondo pull? First of all, look to harnessing efficiency and fit. Have you matched the harness to the vehicle? Is your breast collar's neck strap pulling down on his withers, creating pain? Is your neck collar pulling up into his throat, choking him, because of incorrect draft angles? Is the harness incorrectly adjusted and transferring draft (weight) to inappropriate parts of his anatomy? Is your vehicle unbalanced and placing extreme weight on his back?



Are you driving on a firm surface or soft dirt? Are you changing speeds a lot? Are you driving on hills? If you have no brakes to help hold the vehicle back downhill, are his hind legs being pushed out from under him by the breeching?


How far are you driving? Is the horse fit enough to match your ambitions?


I once had an 11 hand mixed breed pony, hitched to a "Meadowbrook" vehicle, which was probably close to her weight. My husband, my large dog, and myself drove this pony many miles on trails with no stress to the pony. In a pair of ponies, she earned Best Conditioned against all comers in an endurance drive, with a fairly heavy competition vehicle and two passengers.


Any horse that I would drive would firstly be hitched as technically correctly as I could possibly manage, and started on a slow conditioning program. My last driving horse, which I sadly lost about 1 1/2 years ago, was a 14.1 hand Morgan mare, about 900 pounds, who routinely pulled about 800 pounds of carriage and passengerss. Up and down considerable hills. But we didn't go dragging her out of the pasture and go mountain-peak-bagging. The most dreary and unpleasant conditioning went on all winter so we could take her to the mountains in early summer. And when we got there, we modified our driving to suit the terrain. When it went up, we GOT OUT and walked with her up the steep grades. We stopped frequently to let her blow. We carried water for her.


Many full grown adults enjoy extraordinary fun and satisfaction driving their mini horses, who are much smaller than the total weight of the load they pull. Those mini owners of my acquaintance strive to their utmost to respect the limits of their equines' powers, harness them and condition them to protect them from over-exertion.


The best way of measuring how much your horse can pull is literally, to know your horse.


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## dogpatch

Hondo, here is an article I wrote for Rural Heritage Magazine that provides an introduction to the importance of getting your equipment right as a means of helping your driving horse do its job with the least interference from its equipment.


*DRAFT*
Draft – Draft Horse – In Draft – Out of Draft – Line of Draft – Line of _traction _– Chain
Draft – Axle Draft – Balanced Draft – Center of Draft . Point of Draft, oh my!!
DRAUGHT!!! How many meanings and spellings can one word have! We won’t even be discussing basketball picks, breezy rooms, beer or chimneys in this article!
Before starting a discussion on the selection of breast or neck collar, it’s important to understand that we are not just talking about picking out a piece of equipment. We are talking about draft and virtually all the horse-related applications of the word. Many of these applications, the venerable Webster may never have dreamed of. So I’ll start by roughly defining the many applications of the word draft (draught) as they apply to a horse and carriage.
First of all, we’ll simply note that here in the US, we generally spell the world draft.. Most of the rest of the English-speaking world spells it draught.
The word “Draft” has lots of meanings outside the realm of carriage driving. Someone with a thesaurus and a good dictionary can probably define the word “draft” better than what follows, but I think for the purposes of this discussion, we will be safe if we just associate the word “draft” with “pulling”. Yes, technically it’s pushing, but a lot of us are secretly more comfortable calling it pulling, so let’s go with that.
When we refer to “draft,” in the equine sense, usually we are referring to the horse pulling something. A “draft” horse is generally thought of as an animal of great size and strength that pulls wagons and implements. Technically speaking we could call all our driving horses “draft” horses because they pull something, but the phrase “draft horse” is generally reserved for the big guys.
_In Draft _– This means your horse is actively pulling something. It means the traces (what tugs are called in carriage driving) are taut and he is actually applying his strength to move a load. It doesn’t just mean that he is simply hitched to the cart and it’s rolling along behind him, it means he’s actively working to move it along.
_Out of Draft – _This means the cart is rolling along behind the horse with traces slack.
This can be when you’re going downhill (in which case we hope the horse is “in breeching”), or when he’s on the flat and just bumping into the collar occasionally as the cart rolls along behind, traces slack. When the traces tighten, he is back “in draft.”
_Line of Draft . _This is the imaginary line described by the traces as they pass from the collar to the singletree when the traces are taut, i.e. when the horse is pulling.
_Angle of Draft –_This is the imaginary line described by the traces in relation to the horizon when the traces are taut, i.e. when the horse is pulling. “_Angle of traction_” is the same thing.
_Point of Draft – _This is the spot on the horse’s shoulder (actually the place where the trace meets the hame) that the horse is “pulling” from.
_Center of Draft _– This is a theoretical spot on your horse’s body. It is found by drawing an imaginary line through his theoretical center of gravity (A plumb bob suspended from thoracic vertebra 10, about a hand behind the shoulder blade), and a horizontal line bisecting his body mass into two equal halves. The point where these two lines intersect is his theoretical “Center of Draft.”
_Chain Draft _– Chain draft is a way of attaching the singletree TO THE AXLE OF THE VEHICLE with chains. Two chains attach to the axle in the vicinity of the springs, and triangulate forward to attach to the CENTER of the singletree. The singletree is suspended from the crossbar of the vehicle by straps, so that there is an unbroken _line of draft _from the horse’s collar, through the singletree, to the axle. If a cart originally had the singletree on top of the crossbar, and the owner converted it to _chain draft, _this would affect the _angle of draft, _or _angle of traction._
_Axle Draft _. This is the same thing as _chain draft, _in that the _line of draft _goes straight from the horse’s collar, through the singletree to the axle, but may be achieved by means other than chains (i.e. a hinged yoke that would pass around a low foot basket). 
Note: _Chain/Axle draft _takes the draft (pulling) right to the axle. It is not a lowered singletree that puts the _line of draft _to the axle. Even the yoke functions somewhat differently than true chain draft, but it does work quite well.
_Balanced Draft _. This will be an unfamiliar phrase to many. Okay, so what is “balanced pulling?” If you think about it long enough, you can create an image in your head about what “balanced pulling” is. To help you visualize balanced pulling, let’s get extreme, and think of a little bit of a mini horse, hitched to a wooden meadowbrook type cart with two people in the cart. He’s got a breast collar on and the singletree is almost higher than his bum. I am not picking on little horses; I am using the smallest horse with the biggest job as my example. The mini horse has no built in variables. He is tiny and like everything else tiny, the tolerances are tighter. That’s why he’s such a good candidate for an example of why _Balanced Draft _– or balanced pulling – is so important.
Okay, you’ve got a little guy in a breast collar, and the singletree is up above the crossbar. His traces are running uphill. If you look hard, you will see that almost all his body mass is below the traces. The breast collar is being pulled into his throat. He may look cute and conventional with this setup when he isn’t asked to really get _in draft. _But what happens when he has to go up a little hill? It’s like you trying to pull a load with the strap around your throat – the load will pull you over backwards!! Now our little trooper isn’t going to get pulled over backwards (we hope), but he is most definitely NOT in _balanced __draft_! There are ways to set him up so that he has equal amounts of body mass above and below his load – with the traces running through his _center of draft_, so that he will be hitched in balance with his vehicle, have every mechanical advantage and not feel like he is being pulled over backwards, nor pitched over his breast collar onto his nose. It takes work on the part of the driver to achieve _balanced draft _for his horse. Once you’ve seen balanced draft for yourself, anything else will make you uncomfortable.
Oh, the word _draft _is also applied to the widest part of a neck collar, the place where the _point of draft, _the spot where the traces attach to the hames, is located. So there’s a look at “draft/draught” and the many ways the term relates to carriage driving. I hope this has helped some folks to get grounded in the discussions that follow.
*SHOULDERS*
If the horse’s mouth is the “steering,” and the hindquarters are the “motor,” then you might say that the shoulders and collar are where the rubber meets the road for the driving horse. This is where flesh and blood, bone and muscle, push against unfeeling, indifferent, perhaps unyielding weight. You can adjust the cart balance and the driving saddle so there is no effect to the horse’s back. You can do up straps correctly so nothing interferes with anything else, but there is virtually nothing you can do to prevent the collar from influencing the horse’s shoulders. .But you DO have the ability to determine HOW the collar influences the horse’s shoulders, for better or worse.
Think about it. The horse is virtually attached to the vehicle by the collar. He’s pressing his sensitive flesh and bone into many hundreds of pounds of weight. Do you have a wall full of bits, trying to make the horse happy in the mouth, with two pounds of weight on the reins? Did you ever stop to think about what’s happening between the horse’s shoulders and the collar when he’s pushing into six or seven hundred pounds of payload?
As riders, we concern ourselves with the mouth, with our balance in the saddle, and with the boiler room, the hindquarters. We educate the various parts of the horse’s body to respond to our requests, and we _know _we are not effective riders if we are not in balance with the horse. Rarely, though, is much said about the forehand, unless the horse is heavy on it.
In driving, I feel we should _start _at the forehand when equipping the horse because that’s the part of his body that is truly communicating with the vehicle. We still worry about the mouth and boiler room, but we’re rarely taught from the beginning to really think about the horse’s shoulders having to press into all that weight. We’re just happy because we’ve eliminated having to balance ourselves on the horse’s back. 
The thing that they keep forgetting to point out is that though the horse is no longer burdened by a rider on his back, now he is dragging along a huge weight by pushing against it with his shoulders. Yet we still want him to be light and lovely in his movement, even though we’ve tethered him by the neck to a rolling anchor.
Well, he CAN still be all light and lovely, probably better than you might imagine, particularly if we pay attention to what we use to connect his shoulders to that rolling anchor, the collar. If we think about how his body levers operate when he’s pushing against that weight we begin to realize we must give him a mechanical advantage, one that works with his anatomy. 
The shoulders are very mobile! They have no bony attachment to the skeleton, but instead are held to the ribs with powerful connective tissues. Horses are built in all different front end configurations. Many horses were originally bred for driving, with the right sort of conformation to carry a collar correctly. But today we drive a great many horses that were never designed to tow a weight!
These horses are even more acutely in need of our efforts to harness them _in balance with their load. _
This description is a bit crude, but is good enough for our discussion. The shoulder blade is something like a lever, with a fulcrum close to the middle. Like any other lever, the shoulder blade moves back and forth at each end, while the center, the fulcrum, is more stationary than either end. The lower end of the fulcrum is highly mobile. This is where a breast collar rests. 
Because a breast collar rests on the lower end of the shoulder lever, each time the horse in a breast collar advances a foreleg, he has to move the lower end of his shoulder lever against the weight of the carriage.
In a neck collar, the _point of draft, _the spot where the trace attaches to the hame, is positioned much higher than with a breast collar, just about over the top of the most immobile part of the shoulder blade. Resting on a shelf of thick muscle, well in front of the shoulder blade, the collar and hames elevate the _draft, _the weight of the vehicle, off the lower end of the lever and place it nearer the fulcrum, so the lever is more capable of a full range of motion. Along with other considerations, such as the chest compression that can be caused by breast collars, we can begin to see why neck collars aren’t just for “heavy loads” or draft horses. But the case for a neck collar is not open and shut.
*Breast Collars*
Breast collars have a lot of advantages, not the least of which is ease of fitting one to a variety of horses. In order for a breast collar to be suitable for carriage driving, plenty of width is desirable to spread the weight of _draft _over as much surface as possible. Skinny breast collars are for show ring driving and have no place with heavier carriages.
Among their disadvantages is the fact that they place the weight of draft over the lower end of the shoulder blade lever, virtually causing the horse to have to lift the weight out of the way before he can advance his foreleg. Another is chest compression. This may not seem like a big deal with a draft horse, but because we drive so many light horses that were never designed to push a load, this is a very important consideration in carriage driving. 
Some horses can take the chest compression. Some cannot. It doesn’t necessarily depend on conformation. Some horses are just plain offended by the restriction of the breast collar; some are more stoic and do their best. For the purpose of human gratification, if you are seeking brilliant performance from your horse, consider whether he is capable of offering his best movement in a breast collar, with the chest being squeezed and the range of motion of the shoulder blades restricted.
*NECK COLLARS*
The advantages of neck collars can be summed up pretty easily. They spread the load over a large surface. They elevate the draft off the mobile lower end of the shoulder blade lever. They do not compress the chest. They don’t inhibit the free forward motion of the foreleg. It could be said that they may be inherently more horse friendly than the breast collar. 
But only when they are the correct selection for the vehicle or load, and only when they are skillfully fitted. The biggest mystery in collar fit for all newcomers is fit. There are a number of scary myths (and remote truths) about their use. Horses tend to fluctuate in collar size to a certain extent over the season (though I believe this is much less pronounced in light horses than heavy). So they do have their drawbacks. I believe that the mechanical interaction with the horse’s levers makes the neck collar the most horse friendly choice, _but only when it’s correctly matched to the carriage or the work. 
_

_End of part 1
_


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## dogpatch

Draft Article Part 2



*IT’S NOT THE PAYLOAD, IT’S THE ANGLE OF DRAFT*
Arguments for the selection of breast or neck collar generally revolve around whether the horse is going to pull a light or heavy load. .Breast collars are for light work, neck collars are for heavy work.. This is the barest minimum of information one needs to know before making the selection. Light or heavy, rolling or skidding, ultimately it’s the angle of the traces between the collar and the load – the _angle of draft – _that decides which collar is appropriate for the job. A horse has angles and levers. Our job in selecting which type of collar will work best revolves around working with his angles and levers. Perhaps the easiest way to visualize this is by hitching a horse with a breast collar to a meadowbrook type cart with the singletree way up on top of the front crossbar. Your shafts and traces are parallel to the ground. All your horse need be concerned with is bumping into the breast collar to push the load along. The push is in the direction we want the carriage to go, so the setup is efficient according to the laws of physics.
There are reasons why this setup doesn’t work well with the horse’s angles and levers and we’ll discuss them later. But for a simple cart going down a nice, smooth, hard road, this is a pretty uncomplicated setup. Well, now we want to take this horse and harness and skid some logs with it. Bad choice. Why? Because the more the traces angle down at the neckstrap, the more of the draft is brought to bear on it, across the top of the horse’s neck! You can feel this effect by placing your hand on edge, under the neckstrap. Have someone pull straight back, and you will feel nothing. Have them pull down low and your fingers will collapse under the weight! In extreme cases, virtually all the draft will be transferred to the top of the neck, while the breast collar hangs uselessly!
Now let’s exchange the breast collar for a neck collar and hames. Same horse, same high-singletree meadowbrook. Your traces are parallel to the shafts and your horizontal angle of draft just tickles the physics professors because the horse is applying energy in the direction that we want the carriage to move. But up at the business end, the shoulders, you will discover that you have an acute angle between the hames and the traces.
Just the opposite effect from the breast/collar-low draft combination is taking place. All the draft is being shifted to the area of the shoulder from the _point of draft _(where trace meets hame) and below. The horse is carrying the load in a very concentrated area centered over the mobile lower end of the shoulder blade lever. He’s going to get sore there, no matter what you do. While we’ve concentrated all the draft below the trace/hame attachment, the top of the collar is flapping loosely in the breeze.
Well then, let’s go skid some logs. You.ve got this neck collar and hames on the horse, and a low payload. You’ve adjusted everything so you have a nice open angle between the traces and hames. The collar is fully seated on the shoulders, spreading out the weight and not concentrating it in any one area. The shoulder blade lever is free to rotate without being impeded at either end.
Between these combinations of collar and payload, there are infinite variations. Shoulder conformation plays a part in collar selection. For instance a very straight shouldered horse may do just fine in the neck collar/high draft combination, but a horse with an extreme slope to the shoulder will suffer.
Along with considerations of getting the right collar for the draft angle, now it.s time to decide just exactly what your plans are for your driving horse. We’ve examined how the angle of draft affects our selection, and we.ve also seen that breast collars and neck collars have their own built-in advantages and limitations. It’s time to decide which of these limitations we can live with, according to our driving activities, and which we simply can’t tolerate.
*WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH THAT HORSE AND BUGGY?*
When I first started driving I basically had two choices about where to spend my money. Was I going to show my Morgans and get a show turnout? Or was I going to pleasure drive and get a big wooden wheeled cart? Those decisions were pretty cut and dried.
Today the options are endless. This is where we come to the critical point, where we try to convince the newcomer that it really DOES matter which equipment they select, and that it really IS worth the trouble to learn about these matters before you go much farther.
I can’t even begin to address all the driving activities available to carriage drivers, so I can’t cover all the possible combinations of harness and vehicle. All I can do is hit some of the highlights and give a brief – well – opinion of each. The breast collar/high singletree combination.
This would include a typical meadowbrook type vehicle, and a lot of light American or Canadian style “runabout” four wheelers. Smaller turnouts with ponies and minis may include the light steel carts with wire wheels. These vehicles are built for efficient travel on good, firm, level surfaces. Why? Because the most efficient way to move an object is by applying force in the direction we wish it to move – that means horizontal, straight-ahead draft. The horse is little inconvenienced by bumping into the collar occasionally to move the relatively light load long. Things change when the road noses upward and the terrain gets bumpy.
Knowing what you now know about how breast collars affect the horse’s shoulders, how would you judge this combination when the going gets steep, rough, rocky? Are you going to be driving in soft, deep footing a lot? Do you wish your horse to give a brilliant, free-legged performance in a deeply footed arena?
The breast collar/low singletree combination.This would include the ubiquitous and to me, gut-wrenching combination of very low draft (singletree mounted very low) four wheeled marathon vehicles, with the horse coupled in very close to the vehicle, making a dreadfully steep angle of draft.
It is common to not only harness horses to these carriages with breast collars collars, but to hitch them so closely to the carriage that they can “poop over the dashboard onto the driver’s boots.” Two things happen in this situation. The first is that the angle of draft caused by the traces slanting downward from neckstrap to singletree causes the weight of the vehicle to be transferred to the top of the horse’s neck. The second is that the very close coupling of horse to vehicle exacerbates the steep angle of draft and causes the horse to actually have to lift the front end of the vehicle with every step. Add to that the typical construction of the vehicle which throws most of the weight over the front end (requiring an active live body on the back step to  keep the rear wheels on the ground), and you have a combination which forces the horse to waste great deal of his “pushing” strength to carry the front end of the vehicle. He is lifting the front end of the vehicle with each stride!
You say the marathon vehicle is built for cross country driving – but is it? And is it a breast collar that you want to harness him with for this vehicle? Are you going to use this combination for hours of recreational – or perhaps competitive distance – driving? 
_The Neck Collar/Low Draft Vehicle_
I was looking at a photo of a horse nicely harnessed to a low-singletree marathon vehicle with a neck collar this morning. But something still was not right. Then I remembered a photo of one of my own previous turnouts, my horse hitched with neck collar to a similar low-singletree marathon vehicle, and I remembered why it still didn’t look right. Once again, both horses were coupled in too closely to the vehicle. The angle of draft was too steep. How do I know that? It’s called “Balanced Draft,” and we’re coming around to that subject.
The trouble with these two turnouts is that while we’ve got a nice plumb angle between the hames and traces, the horses are both coupled in too closely to the vehicle, and are having to lift the front end of the vehicle off the ground with each step. The situation forthe horse cannot be corrected by any sort of creative harnessing owing to the construction of the vehicle. It can only be moderated by a careful selection of neck gear. Once again, tremendous energy is wasted “carrying” that should be used for “pulling.” The situation might be improved for both horses by lengthening the traces, but firstly, with the way these vehicles are constructed – for sharp, tight, fast turns – this is not possible. Secondly, the line of draft should bisect the center of gravity of the vehicle, which generally occurs at a point midway between the two axles. Instead, these vehicles have the line of draft basically running into the ground through the front axle. The front wheels are anchored to the ground. 
This is not a condemnation of the vehicle (I am trying to keep my personal opinions out of the discussion). It is a discussion about whether you are planning on going marathoning, or competitive distance driving, or recreational trail driving. If this is your vehicle of choice for your activities, you must decide whether to use a breast collar or a neck collar. Your responsibility is to make the decision based on what’s best for the horse, not on what everyone else uses. 
It’s interesting to note that the evolution of the marathon vehicle seems to include raising the singletrees back up to more horse-friendly positions.
The Neck Collar/High Draft vehicle
I’ve already gone over some of the pros and cons of this combination. Once again, there are good and bad points about the neck collar, too. A neck collar with the high-draft vehicle, particularly on a horse with well sloped shoulders, will concentrate pressure right at the spot where traces join hames. The upper part of the collar will be useless. I tried and tried and tried to make this combination work before I learned about _balanced draft. _I tried all the remedies – Epsom salt shoulder baths, alum shoulder baths, long conditioning to toughen the skin, different size collars. Invariably, a long-ish drive would bruise the shoulders. Now I know why. It’s as simple as the wrong angle of draft. 
Notice I haven’t said a word about using a breast collar for light work and a neck collar for heavy work. Light or heavy, that’s just not main issue in collar selection for carriage driving. It DOES become an issue when the size of the horse shrinks in comparison to the weight of the load. Neck collars ARE good for heavy work, but if the angle of draft is wrong, the neck collar can be just as bad, possibly worse, than a breast collar. 
But what if you’ve convinced yourself that the neck collar creates the best work environment for your horse and activities, and you can’t afford to trade off your meadowbrook? Here is one of those places where tradeoffs become necessary. 
Between breast collar/high draft and neck collar/low draft, there are endless combinations. NOW what do we do? 
We know we’re never going to attain “perfection.” Harnessing for horse comfort and efficiency is a series of tradeoffs. We have to decide which ones we can afford. So now I leave you in a panic of knowing just enough to be afraid of “ruining” your horse if your angle of draft is a half degree off plumb.
Calm yourself, because the next section will teach you about “balanced draft,” a wonderfully clear and easy way to visually confirm that you have harnessed your horse in harmony with his carriage.
*AT LAST BALANCED DRAFT*
This is where you develop a calibrated eyeball to determine if you have made the right selection – breast collar or neck collar – for your particular carriage. It’s the ability you will take along to driving events to see how other turnouts appear to either hit or miss the mark. 
We’ve examined different scenarios with horses hitched to various styles of vehicles with breast collars or neck collars. We know that there are infinite combinations of horse and vehicle, draft angles, and purposes for which we use our carriages. What we need now is a way to visually appraise our choices, and give us a way to tweak what we’ve got to the horse’s advantage; a way to be sure we’ve set him up as comfortably and efficiently as possible. In other words, we need a way to assure ourselves that we’ve hitched the horse in _balanced draft._
Draw an imaginary vertical line through your horse’s theoretical center of gravity. This occurs roughly at thoracic vertebra 10, about a hand behind the rear sweep of the upper shoulder blade. (As a side note, this is the strongest, most rigid part of the spine and consequently, an excellent place to position the driving saddle.) Now, draw an imaginary horizontal line through his body, bisecting his mass into two approximately equal upper and lower halves. The place where these two lines intersect is the horse’s theoretical “center of draft.”
In almost all cases, the horse will be harnessed to the vehicle in _balanced draft _when the trace (or tug) passes through the intersection of these two lines. I could go into a lot more detail about identifying balanced draft, but this really sums it up. With the traces passing through the center of draft, you will virtually always have relatively equal body mass above and below the load. The horse will neither be pulled backward (too much mass below the load) nor tipped over on his nose (too much mass above the load). You will invariably have a good angle between hames and traces. With breast collar harness, balanced draft is sometimes difficult to achieve. Generally the horse will have too much body mass above the load – the traces will pass below the center of draft. But I have seen instances where it is very close. In other situations, the results are dreadful.
On a horse hitched to a very low singletree with a breast collar (especially very close to the vehicle), you will see daylight between the horse’s belly and the traces. The traces will be inches below the center of draft. Now that you are really scrutinizing, you can see that almost the entire body mass of the horse is above those traces. His whole mass is poised over the load, ready to put him on his nose. This sounds silly with a great big draft horse, but with a mini, it can actually pull them off their feet.
So that’s about it. Neck collar or breast collar – you now know that it isn’t just a matter of weight, it is a matter of _balanced draft_. It is also a matter of how you expect to use your horse and carriage. Once you are able to identify balanced draft, you will also be better able to tweak the gear that you decide to buy to its best efficiency. I hope these notes have been of use, and that they help settle the questions (and explode the myths) about which collar – neck or breast – is best for you and your horse.
This article has been reprinted with Barb Lee’s permission. The illustrations could not be reproduced here.


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## Hondo

The rule of thumb for a saddle horse carrying rider and tack is generally put at 20% of the horse's weight. But only as a rule of thumb. Is the horse fit or fat? Does the saddle fit and is it properly placed. Does the girth allow the horse to breath properly. Military books had rules about how far and how fast before resting a certain period and massaging the horses back. So on and so on.


That is all based on a horse being reasonably fit with proper fitting tack.


The article I posted was simply measuring the tension in the pulling chains no matter the animal. As guidelines. They mentioned others that had made similar measurements that differed but were in the same ball park.


Other sites put a horse traveling 8 hours at 10% of the horse's body weight.


Can a horse pull 800 pounds on asphalt up and down gentle grades for 8 hours? Not according to the data.


Based on those writing the article I believed that the data was based on properly fitting and setup equipment.


Do you discount the validity of the data as presented?


They did include information on horses pulling tremendous loads at record setting amounts. For short distances.


Sure, getting off and walking is good. I've done that many a time when riding. Resting. Sure. I do that frequently. When I was learning I even put a heart monitor on Hondo to make sure I didn't ask him to over do it.


But to put all that stuff in a chart can be a can of worms.


Sure, if someone asked me about how far and how fast and how long a horse could be ridden, I could go into the saddle bar design, the twist, the flare, the shoulders, length, the 18 rib, and so on. I feel I could write a pretty long article. There would be several pages just on foot care determining the answer to the question.


But that would not be what the inquirer wanted to know. He wouldn't want to know how much I knew. He would just be wanting to get a feel for what could and could not be done.


Please rest assured that when and if I reach the point of fitting a harness, it WILL fit properly. I gave up on fitting a saddle with off the shelf bars and formed my own from a model of Hondo's back that I built. It fits him perfect.


But I'm not that far down the road yet. I don't even own a set of long lines but intend to soon. Be nice if I discovered Hondo had already been trained. His first 10 years or so are unknown.


So thanks for posting the article anyhow. Very informative.


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## dogpatch

Wow, got it, loud and clear.


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## Hondo

Sorry. Guess I was feeling a little to reactive and should have not hit the send button.


The area where I was raised as well as other parts of the U. S. has small towns about 10 miles apart or a little over. My understanding is that resulted from a 20 mile round trip being about what most horses could easily do without having time off for rest the next day. About the same distance for stagecoach terminals. At least where I am at the present. Some still stand. Many others are known as a site of previous stations. More than one little town around here has a "Stagecoach Road" in it.



In the parts where I began riding 20 miles was considered a fair days ride for average rider and average horse that could be repeated the next and next day.



Sure, I know about the Tevis cup and Western States Run which takes place on the same course as the Tevis which I spectated. Many of those runners move to the area a month or more ahead to condition themselves and have a prolonged recovery period. I expect it is the same for horses.


So what I was trying to fetch out was what could a horse of yesteryear be expected to comfortably do in a 20 mile round trip with a wagon or cart. For average cart/wagon, average horse, average driver. And do it again the next day.



The article I posted was, for my purposes, very helpful. Particularly with the inclusion of tire and terrain variabilities and how they affected draft tensions.


So I did some calculations to see what might be ballpark for three consecutive 8 hour days with ad lib hay/grazing during time off, and was wanting confirmation based on yesteryear's experiences and the wheel surface/conditions chosen based on the average horse and average driver.


Remember, I'm only cautiously dipping a single big toe into these waters at the moment.


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## Captain Evil

Somewhere, in the dark recesses of my soul, I’ve always felt that “cart safety” is an oxymoron... I mean, they don’t call it “slay ride” for nothing...

Kudos to all drivers... you are so very brave!


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## Hondo

Slay ride. That's killing me. And safety with horses would be an oxymoron for anything other than viewing from afar.


Well, that dogpatch kicked me down a rabbit hole I didn't want to go into.


So, are these pictures balanced draft. Sure looks like a lot more horse above the hames than below it?


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## Hondo

Now I'm wondering why this breeching is so tight. If that were saddle breeching, it's rub the horse raw. I have one and adjust it way loose according to mule farms instructions.


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## QtrBel

It should not be that tight. Fitted improperly IMO. It should be flat against but.t, snug but not tight and certainly not so tight that it appears to press into the muscle.


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## autumn rain

Here are two books that I have found very helpful in my driving journey. Going slowly and safely, we have been able to put my little mare to the cart. Hope the books help. Another place to look is on YouTube. Check out Barry Hook. He has a whole series on equipment and how to put a horse to a cart safely. Good luck and have fun, no matter how long it takes.


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