# Bay or Brown?



## wdblevin (Aug 30, 2013)

My understanding is that bays comes in a wide variety of different shades. Shades of this color can be physically identified by their black points (mane, tail, and legs).


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

Both brown and bay have black points. I would hazard to guess Bay with pangare. Brown would be more of a cinnamon colour around the muzzle and other points. Tough to tell from this vantage point, a closer picture would probably help.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Glynnis said:


> Both brown and bay have black points. I would hazard to guess Bay with pangare. Brown would be more of a cinnamon colour around the muzzle and other points. Tough to tell from this vantage point, a closer picture would probably help.


This.

A brown's points will look more orangey and less tan.

Wdblevin, bay and brown are closely related genetically. Both are forms of the agouti gene, which restrict the black base to the hard points (muzzle, mane, tail, legs). Brown is VERY often mistaken for bay. The most noticeable difference is that brown will also lighten up the soft points of a horse (the muzzle, behind the elbow, in the flank and the points of the buttocks). Browns also tend to change color season to season. I know one brown who ranges from an almost maroon color in the summer to almost completely black in the winter...and everything in between.
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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Looks very much like a tell-tale brown muzzle to me; it's too warm colored to be pangare.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Brown, almost 100% sure.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Chillaa do you and your fellow colour expert NDappy ever get tired of answering the question of bay or brown?
I think the both of your should post one of those threads at the top of color thread describing the difference between bay and brown. LOL If I ever post a picture of a bay horse it will be pmed to either one of you first for your expert opinion. 
No offense to anyone asking the question. But I have been a member over 2 years and have seen this question too many times to count. Shalom


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

In the UK that would be classed as a bay. 
A brown horse is one that is much darker in the coat colour. Yes, it still has black points but they are very close to the coat colour.

Weatherby's the TB registration authority, no longer accept black as a coat colour so, all black TB horses are now classed as brown in the UK.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

The AHA only recognizes 4 colours for purebreds. Bay, Black, Grey and Chestnut. Shalom


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Registries are notoriously behind the times when it comes to colors/genetics.

Take the APHA, for example. We know through genetic research that there are the patterns tobiano, splash, frame, sabino, and dominant white (I feel like I'm forgetting one lol). However, the APHA registry only recognizes tobiano, overo (which lumps splash, frame, sabino and dominant white into one category) and tovero (horribly outdated term meaning "tobiano and at least one other overo pattern, but we're too lazy to figure out which one").
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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

The APHA is still run by good old boys. Frame, Splash, Dominant White are not going to be a part of their vocabulary.
I am guilty of using the term tovero. Just dont tell Ndappy or Chillaa. They might send me a letter bomb or something. LOL Shalom


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

I remember the first time I used "tovero." I was asking what pattern(s) Aires has and said his sire was registered as tovero and wondered if Aires was too. Yeah, got my butt chewed for that one. Lol
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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Well, if the APHA is way behind then most British registrations are even more outdated!

Until very recently a coloured horse was either piebald or skewbald'


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Most registries don't care about colors. They just want the registration fees. :lol:


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

Foxhunter said:


> Well, if the APHA is way behind then most British registrations are even more outdated!
> 
> Until very recently a coloured horse was either piebald or skewbald'


 
...and Connemaras are often "dun" :lol: Try telling the Irish that they are not:lol:


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Clava said:


> ...and Connemaras are often "dun" :lol: Try telling the Irish that they are not:lol:


Yes, I owned a young stud that was a dark bay/brown and he was classified as a 'chocolate dun'


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

Foxhunter said:


> Yes, I owned a young stud that was a dark bay/brown and he was classified as a 'chocolate dun'


 
Yes, my friend has a chocolate dun conny too


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