# Possible buy?



## lovestruck (Dec 20, 2010)

This guy is a 16.1HH TB, 7 year old gelding. He has been trained in low level dressage but would be happier as a eventer/hunter/jumper according to the ad. He's done some small jumps, but is still green at jumping. He wear a cribbing collar (should that stop me from purchasing?) and is priced at $4500. 

He looks cute to me! He's a little out of my price range, but here a horse with any training is about that price so it's not surprising. What do you guys think of his conformation? He would be a hunter/jumper for me and maybe some eventing/dressage down the line, but not only low level.


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## HopalongCassidy (Dec 19, 2010)

If your talking about the cribbing.... i say no. I have a horse that cribs.


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

His legs and feet look way too small and spindly for my personal taste. I might worry about how well those legs would support the rest of his 16.1 frame, especially if I were going to do any jumping on him.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I find it interesting that they say a horse that is doing low level dressage would be better suited for eventing. I thought dressage was a part of eventing. And yes, I realize dressage show dressage is different than eventing dressage but I would think a horse that is going to event should be able to do low level dressage easy enough that the ad does not insist he is better suited for something else.

He has a cute face.
Past that I am not impressed.

Cribbing is one of those things that some people will not deal with, others do not care.


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

He also looks like he has a bit of a roach back....which could mean possible injury.

Super Nova


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

^^I was thinking the same thing Super Nova! I agree with Alwaysbehind in that his face is cute


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## Arksly (Mar 13, 2010)

He looks cute and honestly the fact that he cribs doesn't bother me. But is it just me or are his pasterns really long?


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Long pasterns, spindly legs, tiny feet, a slight roach back, and he cribs. For $4,500 you could do a _lot_ better. :?

He does have a nice shoulder, an adorable face, and a huge, kind eye. Those do not make up for the rest of his flaws, however.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

He does have a pretty head. Agreed with AB that it is strange he isn't suited to dressage but could event, he will not do well at eventing if his dressage isn't strong. Also, the dressage tests in eventing are the same tests as those in pure dressage so I am not sure how the seller plans to market the horse if that is their description.

Lastly - $4500 is waaaaay overpriced for a horse that is green over jumps, has only competed in low level dressage and cribs. His conformation isn't terrible but far from good. In addition to the faults already pointed out (particularly his back) I would like to add that he has a short neck in comparison to the rest of him, he is not the most balanced TB I have seen.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

In spite of the other comments here, I like this boy. He does have a mark on his neck confirming the cribbing. He is also a bit unthrefty looking which could be an indication that he will crib no matter what, no matter where (even on pasutre). This is common in this breed and seems to have a genetic component (as I am sure most are aware). His unthriftiness could very well be related to his addiction to cribbing. 

He does have what appears to be a roach back.. and that may actually not be so bad if he can put on some weight. 

That being said, he is quite correct. His neck is set a bit low. He has the slender legs found in most thoroughbreds.. and they _can_ be very tough for their look of not being so. His legs are clean looking.. and that says something. 

I would take a look at him.. but not for that price. I would also bet he is closer to 16HH than to 16.1 HH (put a stick and a level on him). Still would take a look.. ride him.. and see. If you are going to look at him arrive early (b4 they expect you ) so you can observe him in his stall and see if he has chewed the thing to splinters cribbing. If he is a confirmed cribber that is a true addict, you will see him (hear him) cribbing out in the pasture as well. 

Some people can live with this deffect and others cannot. IMO it is the level of cribbing and what you can do to redirect the behavior that determines the suitability of a cribber in your barn.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Elana said:


> He does have what appears to be a roach back.. and that may actually not be so bad if he can put on some weight.


Weight will not get rid of a roached back. It might make it less noticeable but it will still be there.



Elana said:


> That being said, he is quite correct. His neck is set a bit low. He has the slender legs found in most thoroughbreds.. and they _can_ be very tough for their look of not being so. His legs are clean looking.. and that says something.


Too long sloped pasterns does not equal correct.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

I had the same though in regards to the weight. In addition, I would not like to see any more weight on this horse, he is more than well covered. Muscle perhaps but definitely not any more weight, he is a TB after all.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

He looks pleasing as a whole, but once you start analyzing his pieces you see that his pasterns are scary, his feet tiny, legs thin, and appears to be built downhill with a roach.


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## SaratogaTB (Jun 14, 2010)

I agree with Elana that his legs/feet size are typical for TBs. They may be VERY strong even with the deceptive appearance. Afterall, they run at high speeds with those legs! I dont think they are spindly, but elegant.

As for cribbing, yes, common among TBs. My OTTB cribs, but not when outside in pasture and very rarely in his stall. He likes to do it, if allowed, when eating his grain. He wears a miracle collar and he doesnt crib with it ever. If the horse is nice, I dont think that should be a deterrent. If he cribs a lot, I recommend adding some kind of ulcer prevention to his food. I use U-Guard pellets. Its like his daily prilosec.

You could try to negotiate the price down because of the cribbing!


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

TBs may run at high speeds with those legs... but it isn't at all uncommon for them to break and/or injure those legs while doing so.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

I would pass, especially at that price

Cribbing is not typical in TBs and it can be a severe problem. It doesn't get better and there is no such thing as a light cribber. My former business partner was a TB trainer at Philadelphia Park and I've seen many, many TBs in the barns - none that I can remember cribbed. I've owned a handful over the years and none of them cribbed either.

He has a roach back - another fault. As was said before, weight will mask it but it is an abnormality of the vertebrae.

Those two faults alone should be enough.


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## RylieHorses (Apr 3, 2011)

I would also agree to pass, he appears to have a roached back like stated. Its not so much the cribbing that would turn me away, it's the price for the horse your getting. For a horse that seems to be just started in a career, i dont think he would be worth investing $4,500 specially with his conformation flaws and cribbing. If he was more reasonably priced, i'd take a look. Keep in mind if YOU think his price is fair, then take a look, test him out. I'd def. get more information on why they dont feel he's suited for Dressage since it is a part of Eventing. Over all he's "cute" yes, but there's alot of "cute" horses (sorry for being so blunt), but i wouldnt buy a horse for just how he looks. If your committed to certain discipline then base your purchasing a horse on that, not how pretty he/she is. Good luck with your search .


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## lovestruck (Dec 20, 2010)

Thanks everyone! I actually knew a lot of this guys faults before posting but I was hoping I was being to critical.

I've been looking for the perfect horse for the past year or so. I've had a lot of bad experiences (horses that look great online but are starved, crazy, lame, etc in person) so I was getting to the bottom of the barrel.

I think this guy is cute, but full of faults. I think I'm getting discouraged and starting to wonder what faults I'll just have to accept if I want anything SANE and SOUND?? 

UGH. Thanks again everyone!


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

Hmm... well, depending on where you live would it be possible to look at horses a bit farther off? I don't know if you're in the US, but it might not be crazy to look at horses in other states. You may be able to find a decent deal on a good horse and pay a bit more for shipping as opposed to paying a premium for a mediocre horse.


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## lovestruck (Dec 20, 2010)

Eolith said:


> Hmm... well, depending on where you live would it be possible to look at horses a bit farther off? I don't know if you're in the US, but it might not be crazy to look at horses in other states. You may be able to find a decent deal on a good horse and pay a bit more for shipping as opposed to paying a premium for a mediocre horse.


I live in Ontario and so far I'm looking Ontario wide. I'm willing to pay hauling fees, etc and I actually have a pretty big overall budget. However, I'd like to spend less on the actual horse itself (project horse would be ideal!) and keep some of that money for training, vet care, emergency expenses, etc. 

If by the end of the summer I'm still this discouraged, I'll definitely be spreading out to the US!


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

Don't worry, I'm sure the perfect horse is out there waiting for you. I know it can be frustrating, but just try to keep as positive an outlook as you can. ^_^


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

You know, this post really got me thinking. Essentially any time that anyone puts a horse up for critique it will be torn apart. But that is a very good thing because it allows you to go to assess a horse with 30 pairs of eyes (give or take) that have got your back and are looking out for the long term success of you and your prospective equine partner.

In terms of finding a TB that is sane, sound and has textbook conformation, well it is very difficult. Usually you end up compromising a little on something.

I see a lot of TB's here in Texas that don't make it on the track and have helped re-homed quite a few, including my own mare. _Not one_ of them completely satisfied all of the above criteria, least of all my own girl. It is all a matter of what you are willing to work with. Now this horse, in my humble opinion, has two things that I would not deal with, even if he was being given away - the cribbing and his back conformation. 

If it makes you feel any better, my girl I would give an overall conformational score of 6.5/10 - passable but not brilliant. Far from sane when I first got her. However she was 100% sound. I knew all of this when I bought her and I work with her conformation as best I can to achieve the best possible result. However I didn't pay much for her, I like to tell people that she is worth five figures if you include the cents :wink:

I don't know where you live but here is a general guide for TB's and prices here in Texas:

$0 - $1000 will get you a sound TB fresh off the track, varying conformational flaws and varying mental stability. No other training.

$1000 - $2000 will get you a nice TB with 6 months to two years of training after the track, may have been taken to some schooling shows. Sound of mind and body.

$2000 and above will get you a nice TB that is probably doing quite well competitively. I see TB's around here that are jumping 3' competitively, under 10 years old and nice looking going for as little as $3000. So you can understand my shock at the price on this guy.

Obviously, each area is different, just thought I would throw that in there so you understand where I am coming from. I wish you all the best with your search and keep posting on here so we can keep helping you out!


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## lovestruck (Dec 20, 2010)

sarahver said:


> You know, this post really got me thinking. Essentially any time that anyone puts a horse up for critique it will be torn apart. But that is a very good thing because it allows you to go to assess a horse with 30 pairs of eyes (give or take) that have got your back and are looking out for the long term success of you and your prospective equine partner.
> 
> In terms of finding a TB that is sane, sound and has textbook conformation, well it is very difficult. Usually you end up compromising a little on something.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the encouragement! Around here the pricing is something like this:

0-1000: unsound, yearlings with no pedigree worth mentionning, goats, completely green

1000-3000: young, has some training, has been to some schooling shows, just off the track, crazy, mildly unsound, ugly

3000-4000: more show experience, can jump a small course, a little more experienced so not quite green but just above it

4000+: significant show experience (still at low-midlevel shows), lead changes, OTTB that has been retrained


I will definitely keep posting! All my horsey friends are too nice and just saw "OH he's cute!" to everything I show him so I really appreciate brutal, ripping apart commentary!


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## lovestruck (Dec 20, 2010)

Some more to critique:
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding-critique/getting-discouraged-possible-buys-83016/#post986770

#2 is my front runner right now!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

SaratogaTB said:


> I agree with Elana that his legs/feet size are typical for TBs. They may be VERY strong even with the deceptive appearance. Afterall, they run at high speeds with those legs! I dont think they are spindly, but elegant.


Really?
I am not saying a TB is built like a draft but scary long pasterns with tiny bone structure is not what I would call a good quality TB.




lovestruck said:


> I've been looking for the perfect horse for the past year or so. I've had a lot of bad experiences (horses that look great online but are starved, crazy, lame, etc in person) so I was getting to the bottom of the barrel.


If you are working with a trainer and have the ability have you thought about shopping at a track? It is not the time of year that horses are going really cheap at tracks but soon enough there will be bunches of them.

Going to read your linked thread now.


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## lovestruck (Dec 20, 2010)

Alwaysbehind said:


> If you are working with a trainer and have the ability have you thought about shopping at a track? It is not the time of year that horses are going really cheap at tracks but soon enough there will be bunches of them.


Hmm that's a good idea! I'll mention to my trainer that we should take a look. There's a few OTTB rescues friends have visited but most have terrible reputations for buting horses up and not openly telling buyers of lameness issues. But I'm sure there's some honest ones out there too that would be worthwhile to check out!


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

lovestruck said:


> There's a few OTTB rescues friends have visited but most have terrible reputations for buting horses up and not openly telling buyers of lameness issues. But I'm sure there's some honest ones out there too that would be worthwhile to check out!


Forget those faux rescues love, and go right to the track or a trainer's barn. The majority of race horse trainers care deeply for their charges, and just want to make sure they go to a good home.

I got JJ from his trainer, who claimed him in a stakes race just to make sure he didn't go somewhere bad. She was giving him away because he wasn't trained to do anything except run in a circle to the left. Since I've never had a made horse, I was more interested in his temperament, overall conformation, and soundness than his training. He's pretty high on the correctness scale, is sound, and his personality is wonderful. 

I disagree with those who say spindly legs, tiny feet, and cribbing are 'normal' for TBs. None of the TBs I've know have cribbed, and while some _do_ have small feet, very few of them had delicate legs. Most of them are powerhouses, and big all over. JJ's considered small, since he's only 15.2 hh.

Don't get discouraged! I had to look at a lot of horses and put a lot of time and effort into my search, as well as miles and miles on my truck. Your horse is out there, and you don't need to settle for anything less than what you want.

Good luck!


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## Valentina (Jul 27, 2009)

Elana said:


> In spite of the other comments here, I like this boy. ...That being said, he is quite correct. His neck is set a bit low. He has the slender legs found in most thoroughbreds.. and they _can_ be very tough for their look of not being so. His legs are clean looking.. and that says something.
> 
> I would take a look at him.. but not for that price. I would also bet he is closer to 16HH than to 16.1 HH (put a stick and a level on him). Still would take a look.. ride him.. and see. If you are going to look at him arrive early (b4 they expect you ) so you can observe him in his stall and see if he has chewed the thing to splinters cribbing. If he is a confirmed cribber that is a true addict, you will see him (hear him) cribbing out in the pasture as well.
> 
> Some people can live with this deffect and others cannot. IMO it is the level of cribbing and what you can do to redirect the behavior that determines the suitability of a cribber in your barn.


I agree with this - for what you want he appears to be a decent fit - but make an offer on tha price - don't know where horse is located but for Florida that's a high price based on your description (unless he has a more extensive show record and has done decently). His kind eye could prove he's a packer on the flat, and if trained in jumping that and his dressage training will translate into a packer jumping too.


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