# How to get a Buckskin out of a Red Dun?



## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

My best advice to you? Buy the color you want, don't try and breed for it. Your mare might just have some countershading.


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## TexasBlaze (Oct 4, 2010)

a Perlino would be the only chance youd get to get a buckskin.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Buy it. There is no way to guarantee that you would get the color you want without knowing _exactly_ what your mare is. And even then you are better off buying something already on the ground.


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## Brighteyes (Mar 8, 2009)

I think you could try a cremello, but nothing is guaranteed.


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## CheyAut (Nov 26, 2008)

^ A cremello to a chestnut (by your discription I think she's chestnut with countersading) would only give you palomino.

The sire would have to supply the cream and black, and either would have to supply the agouti, to make buckskin. A perlino that is homozygous black and agouti would guarentee it.


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## TorchwoodMindfreak (Feb 26, 2011)

Hmm okay If you guys wanna see a pic of her to help with color just look under my horses.
(I'll get a good pic of her stripe tomorrow to hopefully help)


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## damnedEvans (Jan 23, 2010)

She looks to be chestnut to me, but I'm not very experienced.


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## CrookedHalo (Nov 17, 2009)

Other than a dorsal, does your mare exhibit any other dun markings?

http://www.ultimatehorsesite.com/colors/dunfactors.html

I believe there is also a test for the dun gene, you could always have her tested to be sure.


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## Brighteyes (Mar 8, 2009)

CheyAut said:


> ^ A cremello to a chestnut (by your discription I think she's chestnut with countersading) would only give you palomino.
> 
> The sire would have to supply the cream and black, and either would have to supply the agouti, to make buckskin. A perlino that is homozygous black and agouti would guarentee it.


Ooooh... I didn't know that. Thanks!


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

To me, because i cant see any dun characteristics (shoulder stripes, leg barring, etc) she looks like a chestnut with countershading, which would produce a dorsal stripe. 
I'd go with the above advice, in this case.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

The only way to guarantee what color foal you get is to go out and buy one that's already on the ground. Looking at genetics can give you an idea of what to expect but it is still just a crap shoot when you breed.


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## TorchwoodMindfreak (Feb 26, 2011)

Yeah I'm pretty sure she just has counter shadowing now, but she wouldn't stand still for any pics yesterday. Anyway yeah I know there's no guarentee when breeding. I'd just love to enjoy the experience of having and raising a foal with the bonus of it hopefully being a color I particularly love. And yeah Perlino is what I was thinking, to bad there doesn't seem to be a lot of them.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Quality perlino stallions are rather uncommon. Many people keep them studs just for their colour. Finding one that compliments your mare AND is homozygous for agouti and black is going to be very difficult. 

If you're up for the challenge, I say go for it.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Poseidon said:


> Quality perlino stallions are rather uncommon. *Many people keep them studs just for their colour.* Finding one that compliments your mare AND is homozygous for agouti and black is going to be very difficult.
> 
> If you're up for the challenge, I say go for it.


Sad, but true. A lot of people see a "rare" color and they go "ooooh! Color!! Must breed it!" and all common sense (i.e. looking at conformation, soundness, mind... etc etc etc) go out the window. 
To the OP, if you want to have the experience, why not buy a newborn or young foal? You can bring it home as soon as it's weaned, and have that bonding time, without the worry, extra cost (LOTS of extra cost) and potential disasters that can come with breeding your own mare? There are some really nice, well bred foals out there in a rainbow of colors just waiting for the right person to take them home. Foaling season is starting, too, don't forget, a whole crop of 2011 foals are on their way.


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## TorchwoodMindfreak (Feb 26, 2011)

Hmm I'll keep my eye out for foals but If I do breed her I'm thinking about this stud. From what their website says he is good but what do you guys think?


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Gut feeling... Don't like him. But that is my gut feeling.

I am turned off by the fact there is not true conformation pictures. I am also turned off by the fact all of the pictures (besides the head shot) are obviously edited and not in a good way imo.

Personally, I don't think he is breeding material imo and the stallion's owner isnt asking for a critique so I will stop there.


Torchwood - If you post some pictures of you mare, her pedigree, and what you are wanting to do with this foal, we might be able to help find a stallion that would complement her _or_ find you a foal already on or soon to be on the ground.


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## TorchwoodMindfreak (Feb 26, 2011)

Okay thanks here are some pics of her. I don't know her pedigree because I got her from my cousins who recued her. I only plan on doing pleasure and trail riding. I don't really have very many side shots of her so hopefully these are okay.


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

tell me you are not really thinking of breeding a rescued mare .... please just go buy what you want I see nothing about this mare that screams BREED ME 

babies are cheap right now and you can buy anything you want without risking your mare 

To breed and do it right cost alot of money much more then you will spend buying a NICE baby


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I don't mean any offense to your mare because she is a cute horse and appears to be a sweetheart, but she really isn't something that I would want to breed. She's too upright in her front end and her head and neck are pretty coarse.

Even if you decided to breed her, there are 2 tests that you would _have_ to have done before you went one step further. Since her lineage is completely unknown, you would need to have her tested for HYPP and HERDA. Those are genetic diseases that can effect stock horse breeds with Impressive (HYPP) or Poco Bueno (HERDA) in their bloodlines.

I have to agree with Appy on the stud. It always sends up red flags to me when a stud owner doesn't have good conformation shots of their stud in their advertisement. Just judging from what I can see, his shoulder is as upright as a wall so breeding him to your mare would be a bad idea anyway. She would certainly need a stud that had a nicely sloped shoulder to (hopefully) prevent the foal from riding like a jackhammer in an earthquake, not to mention the possible soundness issues from a horse with a too-straight shoulder.


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## TorchwoodMindfreak (Feb 26, 2011)

Alright... But what do you mean by her head and neck are coarse?
And then does anyone know where I can find listings of foals for sale?


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

By coarse, I mean that they are a bit big, thick, and clunky. In a good stock horse, the body should be thick and the head and neck should be more refined.

You can find foal listings on almost any horse for sale website; craigslist, equinenow, equinehits, etc. You can even find really well bred, registered foals at any auction for a pittance these days.


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## TorchwoodMindfreak (Feb 26, 2011)

Ah alright, personlly I like her big head and neck I hate the look of those small arabian like faces lol I'll keep my out for something then thanks.


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

Search Results List - DreamHorse.com - Dream Horse Classifieds



Buckskin Horses for Sale in Texas


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## 4theloveofhorses (Mar 3, 2011)

If you are looking for a quality perlino stud to get a buckckin colt there are 2 that I personally like. Dun Faded My Genes and Icemans Dun It. I know the Dun Faded horse is homozygous black but not certain on the Iceman horse.

I also agree with the posts that state you could buy a colt and get what you are looking for at probably the same price, with all costs accounted for, as breeding the mare. And you are not breeding a "rescue" horse. Unless you can guarantee you will keep the foal forever, then, in my opinion, buy a registered foal that in the future will be more marketable.


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## The Lewis Ranch Stallions (Mar 18, 2010)

*buckskin from a red dun*

A red dun carries one dun gene (or maybe 2 which only testing can tell) and 2 red genes without testing we can see that by seeing her color. She can only throw a red gene and maybe a dun gene and possibly a hidden Agouti gene if she has one...breed her to a buckskin and you know he will have Agouti and cream which is what you need for a buckskin and you know he will have the black gene which you also need...if she throws her red it won't matter and if she throws her dun it will be a buckskin/dun (dunskin), if she has agouti it just gives you double the chance of getting your buckskin. see lewisranch.com for a color calculator and studs to choose from.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Lewis Ranch, to be 100% on getting a buckskin or dunskin from a red dun, she would have to breed her mare to a _perlino_ that is homozygous for black and agouti. Since a perlino is a double cream dilute, it will pass on 1 cream gene 100% of the time.

If she were to breed to a buckskin, there would only be a 50% chance of the foal receiving the cream gene, which would give the results of bay and dun.


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## The Lewis Ranch Stallions (Mar 18, 2010)

*Getting a buckskin/dunskin*

They are correct. There is a test for dun, and for Agouti which your mare may also carry and not express (due to lack of a black gene to throw to points). I looked at your pics and she looks chestnut/sorrel to me. Either way, she has 2 red genes and if you want a buckskin, the dun part is irrelevant. 

If you want a GUARANTEE of buckskin, a perlino (not a cremello, who carries _no_ black gene) will give you a guarantee of cream and if your mare carries agouti (only $25 to test for it with mane hairs with animalgenetics.com) you have a great chance at a buckskin without having to have the perlino homozygous for Agouti or black but if you want a guaranteed buckskin foal, yes, a perlino that is homozygous black and agouti is the only way to get a _guaranteed_ buckskin (unless your mare is homozygous for Agouti). Takes one black and one agouti and one cream gene to make a buckskin. Your mare might be homozygous for Agouti...I have a palomino mare that is. All I have to do is breed her to my homozygous black stud and I will get a buckskin every time, guaranteed. She is for sale BTW or buy a foal in utero from her. I have a buckskin/white paint yearling colt for sale too. lewisranch.com


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Lewis Ranch - Breeding your homozygous agouti palomino mare to a homozygous black stallion gives you 50% chance of a bay and 50% chance of a buckskin. You are _not_ guaranteed a buckskin out of that breeding.


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