# What do you think about this saddle?



## JustWingIt (Jul 29, 2012)

Hey all, I've been looking for a used western saddle to trail ride and just play around in and such for a while now. This one popped up in my local tack store for not too much, 400 bucks is pretty fair right? 
Here it is, what do y'all think?

From the ad:
"Simco 15" Western Pleasure
WW082712
Size: 15" Semi Quarter Horse Bars (Medium)
Color: Brown
Condition: Excellent
Price: $400.00"








_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## joseeandjade11 (Oct 12, 2012)

Wow, it's a very pretty saddle, I like how the seat is deep, that's how mine is and i love it so much  From the look of the picture, it also looks like it was well taken care of too


----------



## Phly (Nov 14, 2012)

Looks like a nice saddle. I personally don't like the stirrups though. They just don't seem to match really. And I'd want it it to have back billets and bucking strap. My main concern would be that it doesn't look used much. I like worn saddle that show use. My first thought on a saddle that looks unused is it didn't fit right or sored the horse. Which isn't a bad thing necessarily if it is straight Nd does fit your horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

^^^^Back billets and bucking strap?? Are you talking about the back cinch? Anyways that isn't needed unless you want it.

I just bought a Simco barrel saddle two months ago. Very well used but it is so comfortable. Absolutely love it. The older Simco's hold up very well I've been told so not sure why the poster above would want to see an old saddle that is not in good condition. I'm guessing the owner just took good care of their tack.

But I paid only $300 for mine. $400 is a bit of a stretch but if you really love it then go for it.


----------



## JustWingIt (Jul 29, 2012)

So I wouldn't the the back billets for it to just be a general trail saddle?

I may be able to get the price down, but it is sort of a hard thing to find in my area, so that may be contributing to the high price.

Is there any way to guess if it would fit my gelding without actually trying it on him? Does semi quarter horse bars (medium) mean that it is generally the same medium as an english saddle?


----------



## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Gullet measurement cannot be transferred from english to western. You need to take tracings, take measurements. There's a sticky in here to help you.

And no, the back cinch is to hold down the back of the saddle for say things like barrel racing, roping and such things like that where the back may come up. You can use one if you want but it isn't needed.

Below is my simco that I paid 300 for. Little bit more worn in but I love it.


----------



## peppersgirl (Aug 24, 2012)

A back cinch is kinda personal preference... if you mostly trail ride on flat ground and arent going up and down a ton of hills there really is no need for a back cinch...

All of my western saddles (one cutting, two roping) have back cinches which stay on as I know I will misplace them if I remove them from the saddles

Looks like a nice saddle- but I dont know anything about simcos ($400 does seem kinda spendy- but I could be wrong)..you *might* be able to talk them into letting you take the saddle home to try it on your horse..I have been able to do this in the past, but I knew the tack store owner well.. and the saddle was paid for before it left the store, I just had the option of bringing it back (in the same condition OBVIOUSLY) for a refund if it didnt work out.


----------



## Phly (Nov 14, 2012)

I didn't necessarily say it needed them, but I'm sure it had them new and would be tooled to match. Just would be nice to have them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

Back cinches also depend on the rigging position on the saddle; on that one it looks about ¾ to 7/8th which really doesn’t need a back cinch unless you are doing some pretty heavy duty roping (which I’m guessing the saddle isn’t designed for anyway). All my saddles are ¾ rigged and I still ride with a back cinch though it may be loose most of the time, but it’s better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. As for trail riding, if the saddle fits well even on rough and steep terrain you shouldn’t need a breast plate and a back cinch, but once again better to have them there just in case. 
In terms of the saddle, the first thing I’d be asking is what is the tree made of? If it has any fibreglass, forget it, save your money and get a better saddle.


----------



## JustWingIt (Jul 29, 2012)

^ is there any way to tell what the tree is made of without asking or looking it up? Not sure if the people selling it would know...

Just out of curiosity, what's wrong with a fiberglass tree?

And no, no heavy roping, just light trails 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

One of my saddles is a Simco - I've had it for many years now (well into the double digits). Very good saddle as it's comfortable for the horses and me and has proven quite durable. I think the rigging on it is 3/4s well. I use the saddle on horses with medium width in back and high withers. So I would recommend a Simco saddle. 

For the particular one you're looking at, I think a price of $300 might be better as it doesn't have the back cinch with it nor does it have latigos (or saddle strings) for tieing stuff onto the saddle and you'd probably want both those for trail riding. As well I also think (as someone else did) that the stirrups might not be original. Otherwise, it is a good looking saddle.


----------



## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

AnrewPL said:


> Back cinches also depend on the rigging position on the saddle; on that one it looks about ¾ to 7/8th which really doesn’t need a back cinch unless you are doing some pretty heavy duty roping (which I’m guessing the saddle isn’t designed for anyway). All my saddles are ¾ rigged and I still ride with a back cinch though it may be loose most of the time, but it’s better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. As for trail riding, if the saddle fits well even on rough and steep terrain you shouldn’t need a breast plate and a back cinch, but once again better to have them there just in case.
> In terms of the saddle, the first thing I’d be asking is what is the tree made of? If it has any fibreglass, forget it, save your money and get a better saddle.


Exactly! Using a back cinch has to do with rigging placement. Rigging placement determines how the cinch pulls on the saddle, hence a full double should have a back cinch and why you can rope big cattle with 7/8 rig and not need a back cinch.


----------



## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

The best way it to lift up one of the seat jokies and have a look at the tree where the stirrup leather goes over the bar. If you know what you are looking at you can see straight away. I have a suspicion that most cheaper end saddles these days will have a synthetic tree of some sort, I think stuff called raylide or something like that is popular these days. The best materials for a tree are wood wrapped with rawhide. Fibreglass anywhere on the tree has its downside in that even in a western saddle where it looks quite rigid, they are, or should at least, be designed and built to flex a substantial amount. fibreglass doesn’t flex as well as rawhide, so even on a tree made of wood but wrapped in fibreglass it won’t be as good as it should be. Worse than that though are trees made entirely of fibreglass, they have the down side of being far too rigid and as they deteriorate with age, as they do, they loose the ability to hold all the screws and nails that are used to build a saddle. For example the seat in a saddle is made of ground leather, and can often have a thin steel plate to give long term stability, these are glued into place and tacked onto the tree with nails, also many parts of the skirts are anchored on with screws, over time, on a fibreglass tree these will fall out and you cant put them back in as the fibreglass around them has crumbled. Wood and rawhide is always the best tree material.


----------



## JustWingIt (Jul 29, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the great responses!! 

Today I went and sat in it to see what it's like. It was awesome! Really comfortable! I also learned that the store will let me take it for a week long trial. So there's probably going to be a 'Does This Saddle Fit' thread popping up in the next couple of weeks. 

If it fits my gelding and I like it I'm probably going to go for it. I have some more knowledgable western people at my barn who I can have look at it, also. I may try to get the price down. But it is in pretty good condition, and in my neck of the woods is a pretty rare find. It's the first I've found after several weeks of looking. 

Thank you again everyone!! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

Its good that they are willing to let you have a test ride of it. Probably a few things I should have said is that though I think Rawhide wrapped wood is the best, I have never had anything to do with trees made of raylide (or whatever its called) or other non fibreglass synthetics; they could be good, I don’t know.

Concerning saddle fit, take most of what non tree and or saddle makers tell you with a large grain of salt. There are a lot of myths and misconceptions about how they should fit, or what a good or bad fit is. I won’t go into it in detail here but just remember a saddle should give you the best stability and comfort possible and give the same to the horse while distributing weight over the biggest area AND provide the best freedom of movement for the horse under the saddle. 

The best thing I can recommend for you to do is to have a read of a tree makers website I found. I m thinking of building another charro saddle and wasn’t happy with the tree I had made for the last one, I found these guys on the net and they know what they are talking about, their website is extensive and has some great information on saddle trees.

http://www.rodnikkel.com/content/index.php


----------



## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

Oh yeah, keep in mind too that as they age and wear in to your body the saddle will change shape so if it isn’t well made though it will feel great at first the seat can collapse a bit and won’t be so comfortable after a while. Additionally things like padded and quilted seats over time can get lumpy and uncomfortable; there’s good reason why all the old time saddles that people rode in for hours on end every day every day for years didn’t have padded seats, over time they are much more comfortable. Having said that, if you only ride a few hours a week and look after the saddle, assuming its got a bit of quality about it to begin with, it should be OK and last years. Ultimately, a well made custom saddle is the best way to go; but yes they can run into the thousands.


----------



## JustWingIt (Jul 29, 2012)

Wow, what a great link! Thanks so much for sharing that, its very interesting.


----------



## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

JustWingIt said:


> ^ is there any way to tell what the tree is made of without asking or looking it up? Not sure if the people selling it would know...
> 
> Just out of curiosity, what's wrong with a fiberglass tree?
> 
> ...


Fiberglass Tree are the junk the imports saddle brands use, generally Hollow Fiberglass.

Most likely that saddle has a Ralide Tree in it, occasionally Simco used a Solid wood tree covered in fiberglass. Nothing wrong with a solid wood tree reinforced with fiberglass.

400.00 is a little high for that model, but from a walk in store, that is about right, but do try to talk them down

Semi-QH tree is close to a medium in an English, but there is no direct correlation from Western to English.


.


----------



## joseeandjade11 (Oct 12, 2012)

you can usually see the tree right where the fender starts under the seat jockey of the saddle and find out what type of tree it is


----------



## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Anrew, Simco uses Ralide ( a type of poly) trees in it's non ropers. This is a good little saddle, better than some of the later versions. I have a Simco roper that is built tougher than the newer ropers. The leather is thick. Hardware is all A1 quality. The original real sheepwool is still in good condition and the saddle was made in the late 50's. I more recently learned that the reason saddles don't have thick leather like they used, well you'd know about this, the hides get thicker as the animal ages. Many don't make it to 2 yrs anymore so that is what the makers have to work with. Must have been an old steer or cow that became my Simco.


----------



## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

I just had a look at the ralide trees, apparently there is quite a bit of variation in quality, like anything I guess. But it seems if you get a good quality one they aren’t too bad. Found a horse forum where someone who is a saddler gave their opinion of them and they said that if you get a good one they are pretty good but they don’t seem to hold nails and screws over the long term as well as might be wanted. And they are dirt cheap compared to a wood and rawhide one. I got a quote for a wood and rawhide wade tree yesterday; I’m planning on building a new Charro saddle as soon as I can afford a tree. The people I linked above from Canada gave a quote of $650, which is about right (actually probably a bit cheaper given that they make some seriously good quality by the looks of it and can customise every aspect of it (the Canadian postal service on the other hand is EXPENCIVE $310 to post it to Australia). The ralide ones I found on the net are less than 50 bucks.


----------



## bonyroany (Jun 13, 2012)

Simco is a very nice saddle. But be careful; if it is older, the tree might run a little narrow. I have two older saddles (one is a Hess & Hopkins and the other I don't know) that are too narrow for almost all of my horses. Since horses were much narrower back in the day, saddles were made narrower than they are now.  But if you have a narrow horse, it may be perfect! I would measure the tree, though. Good luck and wonderful saddle!


----------

