# Lunge systems etc



## CurlyIsASpecialStandie (Jul 19, 2011)

Hi,

I have for a while been considering doing some lunge work with my girl.
I want to build some more topline and get her working from behind (using her bum)

I have sidereins but i don't use them as i dont want to jam her up or anything.
I am considering buying the kincade lunging system (looks to be the same as the pessoa) to get her to do this, as this seems to encourage horses to use their legs.

Any tips/opinions/ideas on these things?


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

I used side reins to start off with, but my mare got cheeky and used to 'slide' them and ocme behind the verticle. 

So, now I just use her reins on the lunge belt.

I have used a pessoa system on my old horse and although they may be effective I find it a huge faff trying to get it on etc and just use my vocals and lunge whip to encourage her from behind.

I would start on elasticated bugees first, however, so she can stretch in to them and learn long and low without being forced and if she panics, she can lift her head.

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-videos/duffyduck-lunge-video-116910/

Thats my mare lunging, normally she is rounder and uses her hind more effectively, however lunging one handed and filming with the other is HARD.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

are you comfortable lunging ? does your horse know how to lunge ? i would not consider using side reins or pessoa system unless you are both very comforatble lunging !


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

CurlyIsASpecialStandie said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have for a while been considering doing some lunge work with my girl.
> I want to build some more topline and get her working from behind (using her bum)
> ...


Ground poles or raised poles (caveletti if you have the skills) are the best for encouraging your horse to reach down and lift to develop a natural and lasting top line, strong back and abdomen. Quick - no? Lasting - yes.


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## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr (Oct 29, 2011)

I don't use any equipment like this to 'teach' my horse. I like him to hold himself how he wants and what comes naturally to him. I'm not into the side reins, hold the head, this encourages this, etc thing. So guess I was no help, lol.


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## candandy49 (Jan 16, 2011)

When I got my mare some 17 years ago as an 8 year old she had an extremely upside down muscled neck from having been I assume ridden in a standing martingale/tiedown most of her previous life. When she and I became each others I took her back to basic training. Starting with lots of lunge work. The only equipment I used was her halter at first, a 25foot lunge line and a lunge whip. I later switched to putting her in an English Snaffle bridle with the lunge line snapped to the opposite side I was working her on and putting the lunge over her poll and through the near bit ring. For each direction change I did the reverse of running the lunge line from near to off side. Once I got her going nicely with just that I added saddling her in a used English saddle to have rings, etc to attach a set of German Donut Side Reins while lunging her. When switching to the German Donut Side Reins start out with only very slight tension as the horse's neck muscles can and will get sore if trying to do the retraining to fast. As your horse progresses at each session shorten the Donut Side reins a hole or maybe 2 at the buckles until you can see a change in your horse's neck muscling. 

I personally don't recommend using elasticized side reins or bungie cords, because a horse can still brace against them. I found this out through experience.


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## candandy49 (Jan 16, 2011)

If I can I'd like to suggest a book worth very much for learning about lungeing and long reining from the ground. Which includes working with and training young foals to the more advanced art of long-reining.

The books author is Jennie Loriston-Clarke, who I have found out is a noted trainer in the UK. The book is titled, "Lungeing and Long-Reining".


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## CurlyIsASpecialStandie (Jul 19, 2011)

Wow thanks guys! Lots to consider.
She and I can both lunge yes 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr said:


> I don't use any equipment like this to 'teach' my horse. I like him to hold himself how he wants and what comes naturally to him. I'm not into the side reins, hold the head, this encourages this, etc thing. So guess I was no help, lol.



Hahaha You are of help though, some people DO like to let their horses figure it out for themselves, and some horses are VERY good at lunging without contraptions.

HOWEVER

For the following I would use them:

A horse that needs conditioning work (ie a horse that is undermuscled, coming in to work or need to go 'up' a step)

A horse that isn't balanced 

A horse that tends to run on the fore

A horse that won't listen to vocal commands- there are many elements to this, but horses that want to run with their heads in the air as fast as they can generally don't want to listen to a handler or lunger. So, occassionally being able to have more control of head position offers the lunger a more subtle way of saying 'Hay boy- watcha think you're doing?' Rather than HELLOOO STOPPPPPP


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr said:


> I don't use any equipment like this to 'teach' my horse. I like him to hold himself how he wants and what comes naturally to him. I'm not into the side reins, hold the head, this encourages this, etc thing. So guess I was no help, lol.


This sounds well and good, but it invites "poor posture" on the part of many horses. Some naturally carry themselves quite nicely, but others will get into the habit of falling onto the fore and trailing their hind legs or running with their head high and back tense.

It's the same thing with us humans. I usually have to remind myself to allow my shoulders to relax, to round out my lower back rather than to sit with it a little too arched, to engage my core and support myself. Many of us need reminders from teachers or instructors to do this, and when we do these things we ultimately feel better. Less tension, more freedom of movement, etc.

A good rider will aid their horse in achieving the same kind of good posture in such a way that the horse will be able to move more freely and comfortably, even if that initially means having to work at redeveloping certain muscles and dropping bad habits the same way we have to drop bad habits of slouching, which may feel better initially but is ultimately very taxing.


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## CurlyIsASpecialStandie (Jul 19, 2011)

My girl is very on the fore and I am probably not a good enough rider to help her out with this.

At the moment she is having to have time of work because her body has been damaged from being neglected by her past trainer so I was just trying to think of gentle ways to bring her back into work.

As well as ways to develop her muscles.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I would not use the Pessoa training system; from what I've seen of it, it works less with collection and more with wrestling and balancing against different body parts and ropes. Side reins are helpful, but unless I'm training a horse from the ground something I can't teach from the saddle for whatever reason, I stick with a halter/cavesson and lunge line.


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## HorsesAreMyPassion (Feb 16, 2012)

Riding your horse in a nice relaxed long and low outline while schooling or out trail riding, long and low schooling over ground poles/cavaletti and riding up hills are all excellent for building up your horses topline. 

Since you say your horse is heavy on the forehand, you will need to help her to learn how to start bringing her weight back onto her hindquarters by half halting, riding her nicely forward up to the bridle. You are kind of "catching" the energy and containing it and not letting it all go out the front end, if that makes any sense at all. Be most concerned with getting a forward energetic walk/trot/canter and then containing the energy by giving small squeezes on the reins as needed, like squeezing water from a sponge. You also get and contain it with your seat/core, it's kind of difficult for me to explain though! Remember leg to hand. Ride the back to the front. Ride forward into a soft light quiet hand. Don't hold the front end up, let her learn how by the correct use of the half halt. I hope that all makes some sense! Just don't expect a lot all at once, it is hard work for them learn how to shift all that weight back when they are used to going around with it all on the front end. It is a long slow process. 

I'm not against the use of side reins and such as long as the person that is using them is experienced and skilled with them and as long as they aren't being overused. It should not replace correct schooling it should complement it.

Good luck with your girl!


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## CurlyIsASpecialStandie (Jul 19, 2011)

HorsesAreMyPassion said:


> Riding your horse in a nice relaxed long and low outline while schooling or out trail riding, long and low schooling over ground poles/cavaletti and riding up hills are all excellent for building up your horses topline.
> 
> Since you say your horse is heavy on the forehand, you will need to help her to learn how to start bringing her weight back onto her hindquarters by half halting, riding her nicely forward up to the bridle. You are kind of "catching" the energy and containing it and not letting it all go out the front end, if that makes any sense at all. Be most concerned with getting a forward energetic walk/trot/canter and then containing the energy by giving small squeezes on the reins as needed, like squeezing water from a sponge. You also get and contain it with your seat/core, it's kind of difficult for me to explain though! Remember leg to hand. Ride the back to the front. Ride forward into a soft light quiet hand. Don't hold the front end up, let her learn how by the correct use of the half halt. I hope that all makes some sense! Just don't expect a lot all at once, it is hard work for them learn how to shift all that weight back when they are used to going around with it all on the front end. It is a long slow process.
> 
> ...


 
Thankyou, when you say contain her but ride with light hands how much pressure are you talking about? 
Also how would you do a half halt? 
I have heard just ask the same as a halt but before they stop/go down a gait move them on again?


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## HorsesAreMyPassion (Feb 16, 2012)

I am not the best at explaining things but I'll try my best.

Think of your regular contact as a following steady light elastic feeling and try to maintain that feeling. You would half halt with just enough resistance to feel a slight shift in your horse's weight from front to back and then go back to your regular following steady elastic contact, it should only last for a few seconds. First of all be sure that you are riding with a straight line from bit to elbow. Remember to not lock your elbows, think of that line from bit to elbow as an elastic that follows your horse's natural movement of his head and neck. You will notice the movement at walk and canter the most and just be aware to follow it maintaining that elastic feeling. At the trot you will not feel any forward and back movement to follow but you need to be aware of keeping your elbows unlocked so that they open and close with your rising and sitting if you are posting it isn't as noticeable if you are sitting. Ok, so if you want to half halt to shift your horse's weight back you will need to resist the forward movement, starting at your elbows don't pull back, just resist for a few seconds and stay elastic, you may have to add a squeeze at the same time for a few seconds. If you get no response try it with a little bit heavier stronger elastic feeling in your elbow and squeeze a bit stonger at the same time. If your horse does not respond bring them down to halt from walk or walk from trot, etc. It is really difficult to say just how much "pressure" you will need as it varies from horse to horse, what level of training they are at, etc. 

Remember, the most important thing is to have your horse moving forwards into the elastic feeling.

Hopefully this was an ok description and it helps you out a little, if not maybe someone else will have a better description for you.


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## CurlyIsASpecialStandie (Jul 19, 2011)

Thankyou!
Thats good 

When she is well again i will defenently be trying this.
We were planning on doing some fun very very low level dressage comps (HRCAV level 4) but i think we will wait a bit until she is working better.


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## HorsesAreMyPassion (Feb 16, 2012)

I'm glad it made some sense! Have fun with her and good luck at your competitions!


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## CurlyIsASpecialStandie (Jul 19, 2011)

Thankyou, i do have fun with her! 

Shes amazing, i was discussing this with my coach yesterday and she said that she has never seen a horse that was as mistreated/neglected/abused as her that would still try to do the right thing for me.


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