# Turning a 2H BP into a "box stall" trailer?



## HombresArablegacy (Oct 12, 2013)

I'd tie her just to be on the safe side. Don't know if your trailer has doors or a ramp, but with doors, one good body slam to them by 1000 lbs of loose horse can knock them open.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

I would tie too. Even if she wouldn't try to climb out I wouldn't want her poking her head out the back while you're going down the road.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

_*Agree with tie her.*_
Your description is the perfect horse to jump out...

I also regardless of her comfort and liking to ride in a stock...
_BACK HER OFF the trailer, not let her walk off._
If, if you ever need to trailer her where she must back off and she is allowed to just walk-off you may have difficulty.
It also is less stress on the front legs and hooves for a horse to step down with the hinds and softly lower their front end down off the trailer.

Removing a center divider is fine, or consider sliding it over and securing it to give her a little more room if you are concerned she is to cramped.
Depending upon your trailer configuration...that center divider also may have the "butt bar/chain" securement on it... removing it from the standard position also removes the safety that bar/chain gives and the reason those are there in the first place..plan in advance for that.
Something to think about...:neutral:

If your trailer does _*not*_ have a ramp but 2 doors...
*Do Not Remove That Center Bar* at the entryway....it_* is *_what holds securely and safely your horse in the trailer...some not totally realize that till "after" they cut it out. :x
If you have a single wide swinging door...you're good. Still though, _back your horse off...
:runninghorse2:...
jmo...
_


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## Emoore (Sep 14, 2015)

Good insights. Thanks! It has the 2 doors with the center bar that the butt chains attach to. I wouldn't remove it; it looks pretty integral to the structure of the trailer. She does back off but doesn't like it. I had been backing her off every other time or so just to keep her doing it. I didn't know backing off was less stressful on the body. I'll make her do it every time.


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## Emoore (Sep 14, 2015)

I'm honestly not a fan of the center bar. Looks like a good place to bang a hock while backing off. Or get stuck with one leg on the other side.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Emoore said:


> I'm honestly not a fan of the center bar. Looks like a good place to bang a hock while backing off. Or get stuck with one leg on the other side.



If you leave the trailer as a 2 horse, with dedicated stalls and divider in place she will not hang a hock since she will be backing straight out not angled.
My horses are taught simple words for disembarking from my trailer. As they back, "BACK, BACK"...as they reach the point of stepping off with the hind, "DOWN, DOWN"...simple words with different "harsh" sounding consonants of a "B & D" they can hear those sounds, not necessarily understand the word used..
My horses actually listen to the voice at their head and not panic feel as I call it when unloading...
Whoever is unloading only uses the same words, EVER, so no confusion.
We exit slowly and with control _not_ flying off backwards.

I am _not_ a fan of center bar trailers, including slant loads for this reason..._
Unless a 8' wide trailer to allow extra stall width room...that's *not* happening soon!!:icon_rolleyes:_
_My horses *are* large bodied horses. 
They have a large, well-sprung rib cage and squishing between that bar and trailer side is just not a comfortable thing for them._
I do though on a trailer of your configuration like that you can remove one and still have a safe secured door still holding the other one in, the horse not pushing the butt bar/chain to get off before I am ready...
Pros and cons to each trailer and configuration. :wink:
:runninghorse2:...
_jmo..._


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## Emoore (Sep 14, 2015)

My thoughts exactly. I have yet to find a configuration I like everything about.


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## Emoore (Sep 14, 2015)

The trailer in question.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

I am experimenting with this very thing. I have a Brenderup which is a fiberglass trailer, things work a bit differently on it. I had a center bar put in, and the swinging center divider removed. I had to have that center bar to hook the padded butt bars to -- they hold the trailer tight together so the ramp fasteners will fit when it's in the up position. I also have a 14.2 mare. She really dislikes the straight load having only hauled in slants and stock trailers before I got her. By 'dislikes', I mean, gets so agitated she comes out dripping sweat. She also managed to tear off the escape door gasketing and bend the rim (pawing). 

I've only hauled her once, tied, in the new configuration. She still came out sweated and agitated, maybe a little better. I'm going to haul her loose next time and see how she does. There's an optional top door that closes the whole trailer in. 

I have to say, both Brooke and I appreciate walking out instead of backing out. She skinned the whole inside of her cannon on the ramp once, backing out. Also with walking out there little chance of her hurting herself on that center bar. 

Although the idea that a horse should be able to load and unload and ride in any kind of trailer is obviously sound, I'm just focusing on getting her to do so in ONE trailer, the one I've got. First things first.

Let us know how you do and I will post my results as well. I am trying very hard to solve my horse's trailer issues.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Nice, clean trailer....

I would not, repeat NOT remove the divider nor steel bar.
With the open divider bottom if your horse needs a little more room she can pivot her foot for that space yet still have the support of that secured divider to lean on if needed.
With how it looks I'm not seeing a easy way for her to hang her hock honestly.
Her butt is going to be out the door before her hind leg gets to it...that butt will keep her straight heading off then her ribcage...

Some will tell you to close in the divider..
That_* is*_ a personal thing especially since you will be trailering her alone she will not need a full partition to keep her legs & hooves from being stepped on by another.
Neither of those things normally happen unless you are a lousy, jerky driver behind the wheel or a emergent situation of a fast slam-on-the-brakes occurs in which case any horse would scramble....and use the secured divider for support!!
_One of my trailers has the same kind of "open" divider and I trailer 2 or more at a time, near always. Never, ever a problem...._

Happy safe trailering.
Be a careful and conscientious driver while driving and sharing the road space with others...road courtesy always! 
Keeps you and your horse safer out there....
:runninghorse2:...
_jmo.._


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## Emoore (Sep 14, 2015)

horselovinguy said:


> I would not, repeat NOT remove the divider nor steel bar.


What makes you say not to remove the divider? Obviously not the steel bar; it's part of the structure.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Emoore said:


> What makes you say not to remove the divider? Obviously not the steel bar; it's part of the structure.


I just see no purpose or advantage to removing the divider.
The way yours is made can you slide it over at the back giving more room if really truly needed?
You have fear of your horse hooking a hock and that then adds that possibility since you have nothing solid as a guide when backing off the trailer past that steel center beam.
I really believe since you are trailering a single horse your horse would have the ability to spread their legs enough to have a wider stance if needed...they only need a inch or two not feet of extra spread room.
That center divider actually allows the horse to rest and lean against it when it is used as designed. It will also support and stabilize the horse if you need to make a quick stop or evasive action.
Your trailer I bet is 6' wide, maybe narrower...certainly not 7' or 8' wide by the pictures. If you remove that divider and your horse should get herself sideways...then what? Her body can wedge, yes wedge in a position that could be difficult to get her out of...
The divider also prevents that happening. And yes, I have seen horses on slant loads get stuck when the handler turned or allowed the horse to turn around and got stuck...on a 6' wide trailer! It is not just the body but the head and neck that take up space.

My question to you is if you were to put flour, yes baking flour on your horses sides and walk her onto the trailer are there stripes where the horses shoulders/ribs/hips rub the sides? 
Or is it what you perceive to be to tight a fit?
Does the horse really, truly rub then don't make any alterations to the trailer and do sell it and buy a larger, wider trailer. 

Your trailer has suspension on it to soften the ride. 
It _isn't_ bump, slam, bump, slam. 
You as the driver should also be going slower around turns and when stopping and starting that the horse_ does not_ need to sprawl or spread their legs to keep balanced...
When your horse is in the stall or pasture do they stand with their legs splayed, spread and braced or do they stand with a hip and leg cocked in rest, shift their weight and do the same the other leg...they do not stand that much different in a trailer. 
They stand with their legs under the 4 corners of the body, joints locked and resting as they do when standing sleeping... at least my horses stand very relaxed while traveling and they do alternate the lean on the side wall, center divider and the butt bar on long hauls.
That is how I look at this...._my feeling and personal opinion._

It is of course your trailer and always your decision how you transport your horse, the conditions inside your trailer and how you drive that trailer loaded and empty.
Only you can make the decisions regarding your horse and the safety reasons behind the decisions you make as your horses advocate of a safe environment and care.
:runninghorse2:....
_jmo..._


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## Emoore (Sep 14, 2015)

I appreciate the explanation. What you say makes sense. I wasn't arguing; I was intrigued with what you said and I'm trying to learn. I don't like to accept things because people say so. I always want to hear their reasoning. Yes I could slide it over at the back, but I'd have to fabricate or rig something for it to attach to. No, the flour wouldn't rub off. She's a petite little girl.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I knew you were questioning the "why" ...
I'm sure others have their own opinions on the subject.
I can only voice what I have seen or had experience watching and seeing occur.
I have ridden in a few trailers and horse trucks with a truly sick or injured horse headed for a emergency surgery to take place...
I have also ridden in the trailer coming home with a horse{s} when the need arose {car broke down I rode in going to the show} and got to watch how they actually do move and react to road conditions....was interesting. 
_Also found I get motion sick riding backward sitting under the front trailer window...whoops :icon_rolleyes:
:runninghorse2:...
jmo...
_


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

I am wondering why boxes are popular in Europe but not in the US. Anyone know?


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

There's an old thread on the 'other' forum, c.2009, that discusses boxes and also hauling loose. All the people who weighed in who haul loose in boxes feel strongly that their horses are much happier. There are some warnings that if you really have to be careful modifying any trailer from the way it was originally engineered. No stories of how disaster befell those who haul loose in a box. 

It was actually that thread that inspired me to give it a try.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Avna said:


> I am wondering why boxes are popular in Europe but not in the US. Anyone know?



Taking a guess and stab at some possibilities....

*Size and availability of larger vehicles to tow larger trailers?
_*Not* getting into the debate about Brenderup trailers either...
_*Here not needing to insure a trailer that is not financed may be a large one...
*Size of roads traveled may have some part of it...
*Laws here can dictate a special license needed for driving certain size, weight allowances of vehicles = $$$$$
*Horse Truck registration costs, then add insurance, then add livestock and a whopping expense for many who use their truck/trailer infrequently.
*Size of a area needed to park, unload a larger vehicle with a ramp....
*Many here have a daily driver of a pick-up truck, leaving the horse trailer parked someplace. A horse truck as a daily driver..._no thanks!_

Some ideas that can go back and forth either direction...
Those come to mind, bet there are many more.
:runninghorse2:...


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

horselovinguy said:


> Taking a guess and stab at some possibilities....
> 
> *Size and availability of larger vehicles to tow larger trailers?
> _*Not* getting into the debate about Brenderup trailers either..._
> ...


Quite a few of our board members question why we need such big rigs to tow with then people are curious why box trucks are more popular in the UK vs. the US...Trust me, if I couldn't buy a 3/4-1 ton pickup to tow my horse trailer with I certainly would be looking at buying a box truck to use instead. This goes right back to using something designed from the ground up to do the job vs. something that can do it but should it?


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## cosmomomo (Aug 10, 2010)

I always have my horse tied and closed in the divider even when hauling alone, straight, or slant load. He has hauled fine in a stock trailer - tied. I figure that the dividers are there for a reason and that it gives him something to lean against if there is a forceful turn or stop - something standing in a box wouldn't do unless they were already leaning into the wall. 

I suppose the only insurance to a box situation is that if they go down, they don't get caught underneath a divider, (which I would imagine a fall would only be caused by an abrupt turn/stop or from a panicked horse which isn't safe regardless of the trailer). You just have to weigh the risks.


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## ChitChatChet (Sep 9, 2013)

I took out the divider and the center bar that goes from floor to roof in the very back of a large and tall 2 horse trailer.

It wasn't important for the structural integrity and only got in the way.

Hauled that way for years.

I would definitely tie.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Could someone tell me exactly why a horse would be tied while traveling in a box type set up? I am thinking of trying hauling my horse loose but with the top door closed, so it is a fully enclosed, can't be tempted to jump out over the lifted ramp (six feet high at least) situation. 

My routine would be, load, put up butt bar, tie, close up ramp and top door, untie. Unloading would start with tying before taking down the ramp, untie before undoing butt bar. 

It's all very tense with this horse, she gets anxious in confined spaces, and I am trying my heart out to figure out something she can tolerate without hurting herself or me. 

Yesterday I worked on loading and unloading her into the box, truck and trailer parked in her field. Needs two people to load her, but eating treats in the trailer seemed to help her calm down.


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## cosmomomo (Aug 10, 2010)

Avna said:


> Could someone tell me exactly why a horse would be tied while traveling in a box type set up? I am thinking of trying hauling my horse loose but with the top door closed, so it is a fully enclosed, can't be tempted to jump out over the lifted ramp (six feet high at least) situation.
> 
> My routine would be, load, put up butt bar, tie, close up ramp and top door, untie. Unloading would start with tying before taking down the ramp, untie before undoing butt bar.
> 
> ...


I would be inclined to tie only so they wouldn't be tempted to move around. My fear comes from imagining them being mid-turn (thus unbalanced) and hitting the brakes or taking a sharp turn. That's just my school of thought though. Trailering in general is risky no matter what way you go about it.


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## Prairie (May 13, 2016)

In my years of hauling horses, I've always tied them except for one who suddenly came down with neurological issues and needed to be hauled 80 miles to the equine specialists. Those vet were amazed he didn't go down in the trailer, but it was obvious from the way he was standing that the wall and divider were what gave him the stability to remain up. At least on our trailer if a horse should go down, the dividers lift up to remove them (it's a 3 horse slant) so it wouldn't be too bad if a horse went down. 


The only time I haul without the dividers is if I'm hauling a mare and foal----then I pull the dividers so the foal doesn't fall/lay down under one, try to get up, and injures himself. The mare is tied so she's not moving all over. 


After too many stops along the road for trailer accidents or rigs being blown off the road, I'm a big proponent of buying the pickup/truck that is designed to do the job and do it safely. Buying a pickup that just might get you by is a big recipe for a disaster----I've had pickups swept off the road right in front of me when a semi passed going the opposite direction, yet my rig didn't even notice it. Fuel mileage is not a major consideration when hauling horses---safety is! 


I'm not going to touch fiberglass for a horse trailer.......but when a dual blew on my pickup, it destroyed the wheel well which was fiberglass. Changing a tire that has fiberglass embedded in it is hazardous to hands!


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

My horse can turn completely around in the box with little effort. Shoot, she could turn around when it was divided in half, that's exactly why she was tied. But what does it matter if they turn around if they have plenty of room? I have heard many times that loose horses will always travel 'backwards', which I'm guessing is how they feel the most stable.


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## cosmomomo (Aug 10, 2010)

I'm honestly not sure it really matters if they are tied or not in a box stall situation as long as they don't have access to a window they can jump out of. I've just always tied, so I'll continue to do so  I have also heard of horses preferring to travel backwards, so in that instance tying would hinder their best balance.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Box stall or not on a "small" trailer my horse_* would*_ be tied, period.
Not sure I would want to try letting my horse loose and as we are traveling down the road he decide to turn around and either get stuck, loose his balance slip & fall or his large movement send my truck and trailer off the road....nor would I want him making a large weight shift in that moving trailer mg:
Average sized horse starts at 800+++ pounds...that is a lot of movement and weight shift...*no thank-you!!

*Now if a commercial shipper and box stalls on a tractor trailer rig..
Most of the time they still stand in one spot and don't move from what I've seen riding in the trailer grooms area or in the cab watching the "tv" screen of activity.
Many times they just have some more space to shift their weight but they don't suffer road vibration the same on a air-ride trailer either.
:runninghorse2:...


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Avna said:


> Could someone tell me exactly why a horse would be tied while traveling in a box type set up?
> 
> It's all very tense with this horse, she gets anxious in confined spaces, and I am trying my heart out to figure out something she can tolerate without hurting herself or me.


I will try to give you a answer to a question I think you already know the answer to....
_*Why tie?*_
Well, for one you would like the horse to be in the same place at your destination as where you placed it in the trailer at the start.
Not every horse is a sweet, calm traveler. Some *need* to be restricted in their movements.
I would not choose to open the trailer and find my horse stuck, or fallen on the floor from moving around while traveling..._There is more vibration in a trailer than many realize...._
I like to be the one to remove my horse _*under my control*_ from my trailer, _*not*_ have it remove itself when the door, any door opens!
I would not want to be the driver of that trailer trying to hold on when the horse starts moving around and that moves the trailer all over the road..._no thank-you._

_*Now for the behaviors of your horse in your particular trailer...
*_You said the horse is accustomed to riding in a stock trailer or more open style horse trailer...
So, anxiousness and dripping sweat are huge issues to deal with as you are finding out.
I do wonder if it is your trailer itself that is causing much of the problem.
You have a Brenderup which you have mentioned many times.
Any Brenderup trailer pictures I have ever seen the trailer is fully enclosed, no windows, closed up sides, closed front and rear or a extremely high tailgate.
You say the horse suffers from claustrophobia...
Your trailers design sure could be adding to it when you put the horse in and it can't see out, can't feel large air-flow on the body...it is in a tomb and has no way of knowing anything about what is happening outside. 
I know my horse{s} loves to look out the trailer front window and watch whatever, but watch.When we reach our destination before I even open the side door he is looking around...
_I would suggest blindfolding yourself and have someone take you for a ride and see how disoriented you feel after several minutes of motion and not seeing anything..._
*Have you ever trailered her on a more"open" trailer design? *
A trailer with a front window to look out, maybe that window opens some, also working side windows and with ample ventilation she can truly feel on her body? 
A door in the back left open if high enough or with windows in it that also offer cross-ventilation?
All things that can soothe a horse...
And not to be mean, but has anyone else ever driven when the horse was hauled? _Could it be your driving technique? _
_It takes only one bad ride to make a horse *not* a happy traveler...what you now are dealing with. :sad:

Just some thoughts I had especially regarding her trailering issue...
Best of luck figuring it out...
It is a unhealthy thing to have your horse in such distress from trailering as you are aware now searching for a cause and solution. :neutral:
_
_And WHEW!!!
Your horse must be very, very athletic and nimble to completely turn around when she had a secured divider in place and still ended up backwards in her single stall location...
I'm glad she is not mine...a little to "bendable" for me! _ 
:runninghorse2:...
_I am *not* accusing or finger-pointing...just trying to offer possibilities you may not of fully considered._


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

horselovinguy said:


> I will try to give you a answer to a question I think you already know the answer to....
> _*Why tie?*_
> Well, for one you would like the horse to be in the same place at your destination as where you placed it in the trailer at the start.
> Not every horse is a sweet, calm traveler. Some *need* to be restricted in their movements.
> ...


1. I drive very slowly and carefully, 5 miles under the speed limit at least. 
2. The trailer I have is very light and airy. It has a front window she can see out of, side windows that vent, the rear ramp forms an over 5' barrier at the back but the trailer is built for tall horses so the rear has a large open space at the top unless the optional upper door is closed. 
3. Yes, she is small, young, and very bendy! Once when I was just sitting on her talking to someone on the ground, she spontaneously did a long stretchy bow nearly to the ground, three times . . .

I would consider getting a different trailer if I could be sure she would be happier in it. Before I do that I'd have to get a different truck, because mine is barely adequate for one small horse and ultra-light trailer. So I'm just working with 'what is' right now. Frustrating.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

_Avna...more ideas.._
Could you just try her in a different trailer?
Know anyone to ask for a ride for a few minutes?
No offense, but it may be your driving style...
So some different ways to do this...
Use your trailer and tow vehicle and have someone else who knows how to drive a loaded horse trailer drive and see what the result is....
Then another day, you drive with someone critiquing your style...
Then another day ask the person with the different trailer to drive and haul her_ in their trailer_ the same route and same distance...see if there is a difference.
It may also be your trailer with the lightness of it bouncing the crap out of her...don't care the suspension,_ trailers are bouncy. Especially if this trailer is designed to haul 2 large horses and you put in one small, not massive sized very young one.
Is she the same way if you put a experienced, solid good hauling horse with her?:think:... maybe she just needs a babysitter for a few rides for "comfort" factor...she could just be scared. _
You are on a fact gathering journey....the sooner you find the answer the happier you and your horse will be going anyplace.
:runninghorse2:...


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