# Horse went down on knees while picking her hooves



## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

I don't know but when she went to go down I would have reprimanded here. My horse use to lean back when you picked up one of his front feet to the point where he'd fall back. I started reprimanding him and he stopped that real quick.
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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

my mare used to do that but only when she had a saddle on. we figured out when we loosened the cinch she was fine......


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

overcinched


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## Elinejk (Nov 18, 2011)

Can you explain overcinched? She hates being cinched up and I went to great pains to get a super comfy cinch that doesn't require as much tightening but she HATES it. Why would that make her go down when her hoof is picked up? What is the connection? That's so bizarre!


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## SarahAnn (Oct 22, 2011)

Subbing. This is very interesting.
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## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

Actually. I didn't even read the part where u said she was already cinched up. 

Maybe it's pinching her? If you rule out any pain or discomfert maybe she's doing it just to get out of you picking her feet
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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

Yes it's not really how soft or comfortable the cinch feels, it's how tight it is. If you've ever seen a buckin horse go down in the chute, like just crouch down, that's what's going on. You want those bareback riggins and bronc saddles tight. But, at the same time, if they're too tight, the horse's reaction is to go down. It kinda looks like they're stretching. It's not just yours, it happens alot. A horse won't perform at it's best with a really tight cinch. They can't run and won't jump as well. I picked up rodeos with a guy once who overcinched his gelding. I could **** near outrun that horse on foot when my buddy rode him. He couldn't catch the broncs at all. (and this guy was like 120 pounds). And when I rode the same horse he didn't have any trouble, even though I'm twice as heavy. Neither of us knew why till my dad got on his *** about cuttin that horse in two. 

I don't know what your horse can take, but if you feel like you can loosen one hole, and still be safe, do that. I ride with a very loose cinch, even roping heavy stuff. But my horses have good backs and withers and you can step up on them without even having a cinch on.


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## Elinejk (Nov 18, 2011)

That is so interesting that you mention that! My new cinch has a roller which makes it easier to cinch up, she has a very high wither and when riding hills I got so tired of having to re-cinch the saddle (it would drift down her back), I finally got a breast collar. I try not to cinch her up too tight, but with that roller thing, I don't know. Maybe it's too tight? Today she seemed kind of "wonky" at the lope. Like her front half and back half weren't really working together. I wonder if she's just really sensitive. i'm going to try to really ride with a looser cinch and see how she does. This is just not something I've experienced before.


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

I'm glad you asked this, my gelding randomly leans back and down which seems as far as he can, then stands up again. The girth is tightened exactly the same every time, and this only happens once in a blue moon. I do let roar at him to stand up when he does it but it does leave me wondering why. He's treated by a chiro regularly so I'm fairly happy its not a back issue - and if it was surely he would do it every time?


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## RhondaLynn (Jan 26, 2010)

Once hubby was riding my QH mare, we were trailriding and stopped to drink some coffee.. After the break, he tightened the cinch and a few minutes later she went down and tried to roll, at first we thought she had colic but one of the folks riding, loosened the cinch and she was suddenly "cured" of her colic!!! We both learned a lesson that day... 

The only problem I have now is I cinch up my new mare, after I had saddled her, walked her around and tightened again. After I get on, hubby has to tighten it up usually 2 holes because it becomes so loose.. how can I get it "JUST RIGHT" when I tighten it up from the ground???

Rhonda


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Cowgirls Boots said:


> I don't know but when she went to go down I would have reprimanded here.


Absolutely not. That would be like slapping you for fainting.

The horse was likely being pinched in the girth area. Some horses have a nerve that runs closer to the surface.


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## Elinejk (Nov 18, 2011)

RhondaLynn - good question. The cinch seems pretty tight, then 20 minutes later I can put two fingers behind it (she holds her breath). Maybe she just needs more breathing room. As long as the saddle doesn't fall off, and I've got the breast collar on now. But jeez...how loose is too loose?


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Cowgirls Boots said:


> I don't know but when she went to go down I would have reprimanded here. My horse use to lean back when you picked up one of his front feet to the point where he'd fall back. I started reprimanding him and he stopped that real quick.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What on earth for - would you like someone to "reprimand" you for vomiting, sneezing, etc? This is not a horse doing something to be bad - it is an involuntary reaction caused by the cinching (hence why the horse does not do it unsaddled)


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## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

mls said:


> Absolutely not. That would be like slapping you for fainting.
> 
> The horse was likely being pinched in the girth area. Some horses have a nerve that runs closer to the surface.


I reprimanded myself in a later post. I didn't realize she had the cinch already tightened.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

themacpack said:


> What on earth for - would you like someone to "reprimand" you for vomiting, sneezing, etc? This is not a horse doing something to be bad - it is an involuntary reaction caused by the cinching (hence why the horse does not do it unsaddled)


Again. Did you guys not read later down in the thread? I didn't realize she said she had already tightened the cinch. Wouldn't have said that if I didn't miss the part where she already cinched him up.
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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

haha thanks smrobs i had a brain fart and couldnt think of the term....i personally dont like the cinches with the rollers cuz its too easy to over tighten it and pinch the horse. but thats just my opinion i guess people with more patience do better with em! haha plus my horses always hold their breath and when i had the roller cinch i always forgot to recheck before i mounted....


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## nucks93 (Dec 7, 2011)

hmm... my guess would be either the cinch is too tight, or pinching....ORRR....she was taught to bow?? lol I have no clue. x)


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

That's a crazy reaction to think about.. I never heard about that. At least it seems that it's an easy fix nothing bad like colic or whatnot


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## Horsesdontlie (Mar 11, 2011)

I agree with the above. Cinching issue. Jake throws himself to the ground if I cinch too tight or too fast or with a new cinch. I always make sure to pick his hooves before I saddle up. It isn't a behavior thing, its more like fainting. 

Here is a mild example of how Jake acts : 






Just take things slow and watch for symptoms, maybe its just Jake but he can and would fall over. So just be careful.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

^^^^ I have noticed with horses that are "stretched" while saddled are more likely to want to go down like that.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

COWCHICK77 said:


> ^^^^ I have noticed with horses that are "stretched" while saddled are more likely to want to go down like that.


I stretch all horses I ride (saddled up) and they've never tried to go down.. :/ so is it because the girth was a good fit and not overly tight?


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## Horsesdontlie (Mar 11, 2011)

COWCHICK77 said:


> ^^^^ I have noticed with horses that are "stretched" while saddled are more likely to want to go down like that.


I don't do that anymore for that reason. Its just asking him to go down, which is why I did it in the video, to show how he acted. Yet his problem started long before I even thought about stretching. 

He also did it without stretching, and when he was bad he would go down even when I didn't ask him to pick up his feet. He was bad for a while. No one found any pain issues, just possible pinching nerve or even possible panic attack. I learned to work around it, and haven't had an accident in a long time.


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## Horsesdontlie (Mar 11, 2011)

Skyseternalangel said:


> I stretch all horses I ride (saddled up) and they've never tried to go down.. :/ so is it because the girth was a good fit and not overly tight?


Most cases you can avoid by not over cinching and a good saddle fitting. (plus some horses don't like certain cinches/girths) Jake would go down with a bareback pad, which is impossible to get tight. >.>

A lot of people talked about saddling issues on a thread I had a while ago. 

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/horse-goes-down-after-saddling-88214/


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Horsesdontlie said:


> Most cases you can avoid by not over cinching and a good saddle fitting. (plus some horses don't like certain cinches/girths) Jake would go down with a bareback pad, which is impossible to get tight. >.>
> 
> A lot of people talked about saddling issues on a thread I had a while ago.
> 
> http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/horse-goes-down-after-saddling-88214/


Thanks


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Roperchick said:


> haha thanks smrobs i had a brain fart and couldnt think of the term....


Haha, Sweet!! I'm getting credit for more stuff I didn't do. Wait...it was something good right? I don't want credit for something bad! :wink:

Anyway, back to the OP, that is a fairly common reaction to being cinched too tight, like AC said. It's especially common in horses that are already a bit cinchy (which your mare sounds like she is). Now that you know, you can prevent it from happening again in the future.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Skyseternalangel said:


> I stretch all horses I ride (saddled up) and they've never tried to go down.. :/ so is it because the girth was a good fit and not overly tight?


I am by no means claiming they all will do it, but I have noticed it more frequent in horses that are stretched....It also ****es off the shoer when they do that while trying to get their foot up on the toe stand! LOL

But as for the OP, I will agree that he was probably over cinched.


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## Royal Pine Buck (May 28, 2011)

although horses do try to lean on you and and learn to roll/fall down to prevent your from messing with them. or from girthing up and saddle fit.

it is important to rule out health issues.

My horse did this to me several months ago (and a couple times before that, although he has a bad knee)

it could be from knees hurting (arthritis) or knees not being able to close all the way (heels left too high during trimming will cause the stay apparatus to malfunction, the stay apparatus is what ables the horse to lock his knees while standing. also knee arthritis with accumulation of synovial fluid will do this.)

do you notice his knees shaking/buckling while standing? or when the farrier picks a hind or a front hoof up?

if not it could have been a one time thing, or some of the other things mentioned above.

good luck!


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Elinejk said:


> RhondaLynn - good question. The cinch seems pretty tight, then 20 minutes later I can put two fingers behind it (she holds her breath). Maybe she just needs more breathing room. As long as the saddle doesn't fall off, and I've got the breast collar on now. But jeez...how loose is too loose?


I can comfortably fit my hand in between the cinch and my horse before I even get on. I ride in treeless saddle too and it stays on just fine, even when Sodehr pulls one of his 180 degrees spin and run maneuvers. If you can only get two fingers in there 20 minutes into riding I'd say you're probably too tight.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

COWCHICK77 said:


> I am by no means claiming they all will do it, but I have noticed it more frequent in horses that are stretched....It also ****es off the shoer when they do that while trying to get their foot up on the toe stand! LOL


Oh no I didn't think you were making that claim, I was just wondering if I had tightened the cinch or girth more, would they have done that? 

LOL what goofy horses! Well, smart horses..  Better to go down than up, lol.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

COWCHICK77 said:


> I am by no means claiming they all will do it, but I have noticed it more frequent in horses that are stretched....It also ****es off the shoer when they do that while trying to get their foot up on the toe stand! LOL
> 
> But as for the OP, I will agree that he was probably over cinched.


I stretch every.single.horse I ride prior to the first mounting after I tack up. Not one has offered to go down.

I let the horse stretch into my hands - I do not pull.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

mls said:


> I stretch every.single.horse I ride prior to the first mounting after I tack up. Not one has offered to go down.
> 
> I let the horse stretch into my hands - I do not pull.


I don't stretch my horses, but I have seen it with horses that are stretched...now if the owners are pulling..I don't know that.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

mls said:


> I stretch every.single.horse I ride prior to the first mounting after I tack up. Not one has offered to go down.
> 
> I let the horse stretch into my hands - I do not pull.


Did you miss the part where she said she *wasn't* claiming that?


Pull, stretch.. whatever. She did not make that claim. She just noticed, and offered that observation.

Furthermore, I would rather the horse let me stretch them than have them stretch by themselves, because I do not want a 1000lb+ animal on my hand. I will not give them that opportunity. Least if I do it (and I do it slowly and carefully) I have my horse's trust (or any horse I stretch) and they learn to give to pressure in multiple ways.

I don't yank their legs around, but I add pressure, they give.. I soften and we both feel safe and nothing gets torn or smushed or whatnot.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

LOL!!! Watch out... I WILL sick Sky on you! 

stsss...sic'em Sky!


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Skyseternalangel said:


> Did you miss the part where she said she *wasn't* claiming that?
> 
> 
> Pull, stretch.. whatever. She did not make that claim. She just noticed, and offered that observation.
> ...



Did you miss the part where Mls was offering an observation based on her years of riding experience? I failed to see any attitude in her post directed at anyone, just simple stating of fact that even though she stretches every horse she rides she has never had one offer to go down. So there really isn't any need to "sic" anyone on her. 

I stretch Soda every time I ride, both for the stretching (lightly) and to make sure that no skin is bunched up in the girth. He hasn't ever offered to go down, but he has "asked" to stretch when I'm trimming his hooves. I generally allow him to stretch both front and back when I'm trimming. He's a regularly stretcher though, you should see him in the mornings! :lol: Lily's even started picking it up.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> I stretch Soda every time I ride, both for the stretching (lightly) and to make sure that no skin is bunched up in the girth. He hasn't ever offered to go down, but he has "asked" to stretch when I'm trimming his hooves. I generally allow him to stretch both front and back when I'm trimming. He's a regularly stretcher though, you should see him in the mornings! :lol: Lily's even started picking it up.


I was just making sure Cowchick wasn't being misunderstood. She was offering what she observed, I know mls was too I just didn't want everyone jumping on the band wagon. I highly respect mls, I have a learned a thing or two from mls that has helped me with my horse  I wasn't being snappy either or being sassy, my apologies if I was seen to be that way! All happy on this side of the lawn!

That's the reason I stretch my horse too.. I've seen way too many saddle sores :/ Plus I bet it isn't comfortable at all too to have bunched up skin underneath a snug girth. 

Have your horses done the "cat stretch" where they lift each back leg and stretch it really far and then lean on the front end? I've only seen one mare do it, she had a lot of character!


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Oh geez....like I said, I have obseved some horses that are stretched on a regular basis want to go down and others have observed no issues stretched...may be a difference in stretching methods, I don't know, but it doesn't make any one "wrong".... I had stated above that I was not implying all horses.
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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Sorry, I'm a bit snappy tonight. :lol: It's really cold here and apparently it's affecting my judgement!

Yes, Soda does that! He usually does this first, followed by that one.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Lol, it cracks me up when horses do that...not sure why though...
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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> Sorry, I'm a bit snappy tonight. :lol: It's really cold here and apparently it's affecting my judgement!
> 
> Yes, Soda does that! He usually does this first, followed by that one.


HOW CUTE IS THAT?!    Yes exactly what I meant. What a fun horse you have!

Haha yeah, no worries


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

:-D Thanks! He's definitely a character!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Ok, Sodehr looks absolutely miserable in all that snow. He _*NEEDS*_ to come to TX where it's warm still.


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## Cintillate (Jan 8, 2012)

I had it happen to me once, it wasn't my horse so I was like. Hey where are you going as we were both going down together in slow motion. I was told I was to tense and holding her leg differently or too tight/far up. True, I was a tad nervous since I was still new to the horse. Outside of that I wonder why.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Too bad that's from last year Smrobs! Actually he'd probably rather be down there this year -28 this morning!


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

My mare will go to her knees periocially and even my filly has, but it's very uncommon for her. I always know why. They want to move vs stand still for their hoofs to be picked. I pick them daily, no matter the weather, and usually in the pasture. The mare is never saddle before picking, but on random days she'll want to eat some grass that's 2 inches beyond her reach while I'm doing her feet ) or want to go over to the hay feeder. At times she'll just get tired of stand for me so that when I go to her back feet she'll walk off (usually when I'm doing the last one), so then I put a halter on her and tie her off while I do the last foot.
She loves to test me a few times a month by leanling on me doing the front the front or sitting back when I do her hind feet. It's just her testing me and she accepts when I poke her back with my elbow, brush or pick handle (which ever is immediately convenient) that I'm not going to tolerate it.
I don't think she'd stand well for me to pick her after being saddled. She won't leave the saddle, me or the filly alone if I pick out the filly's feet and make her wait to be saddled. Her reaction to the saddle is that it goes on her back and realively soon. Once saddled she's ready to go doens't want you messing feet or with some other horse either. She'll wait if she has to, but she doesn't care to.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

When a horse is cinched to tight this is what can happen. Google Endospink, a race trainer who uses this to his advantage to lay horses down. He deals with real crazies and laying them down takes the stupid out of them. When cinching, the horse should be walked 5 or 6 strides, then retightened but so one can get all four fingers in. The walking prevents them from holding their breath. By four fingers, I don't mean you really have to push to get them between cinch and horse but with a little effort.


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## Tymer (Dec 28, 2009)

I try to always stretch my horse's legs before I ride. The first time their legs get stretched they usually do a "WHOA! What's going on?" and maybe go down a bit. But a cluck and a nudge reassures them I know what I'm doing, and it never happens again after that very first time. 

If your horse is sensitive to the girth, what you can do is tighten the girth to the proper hole once you're in the saddle. My girth has double elastics and my horse doesn't blow out his stomach, so it's not necessary for me. When I ride other horses I always leave some breathing room until I mount.


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