# REALLY NEED HELP. bucking and rearing.



## KawaiiCharlie (Nov 17, 2010)

So my friend has a 13.3hh new forest pony mare.
She has had saddle fitted, teeth checked, and has past a 5 stage vetting
she is not in any pain what so ever, yeah she keeps bucking and rearing.

shes worse when hacking out alone, she will randomly stop & when you try to get her to move she will either buck or rear.

today i rode her out with two other people on their horses, we got to the bottom of a hill and we were going to trot, then canter up it. my friend went ahead and started trotting on her horse, but as soon as she did, Fergie leapt like 4 foot in the air, all four hooves off the ground without a warning. she done this twice then tried to bolt, i stopped her and asked my friend to stop, then we continued to walk up the hill. after a few seconds of walking, fergie reared up vertical and almost went over backwards. i decided it was a good idea to get off and walk her at that point because she was getting dangerous and if i had fallen off, we wouldnt be able to catch her again. 

in the paddock we use for riding in, she will go along fine for a few minutes, then decide she wants to stop, and again if you try to get her to move she will buck or rear. then she'll start moving again, and stop a few seconds later.

shes been doing this for a few weeks, but the bucking & rearing out on hacks seems to be getting worse and more dangerous. 

why is she doing this? can anyone help?

i'll try to get videos of it next time i ride her, just so you can see exactly what she is doing.

she also grunts while shes doing it.
and when i was leading her through the field before i tacked her up, she reared & striked out at me. & after we came back from the ride, we were just stood in the yard, i had taken my feet out the stirrups while i was talking to a friend, and Fergie cow kicked & kicked the back of my foot... 

anyway, we really need help with sorting this as my friend is trying to sell her as she cant afford to keep three ponies, and fergie was sold to her as a beginners pony for her son, but she turned out like this.. 

here are a few pictures of her bucking in the paddock from a few weeks ago..shes gotten worse since..


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

Insted of tataly retyping a respons I'm going to copy my respons from a diffrent thread.



> You need to start on the ground in a snaffle bit. Stand by the horses sholder and gently ask for your horses head.If she fights just act like a post. Never pull or jurk on her. At the exat moment she gives you her face release the pressure. In your video she might give but you are not giving back. Horses learn through the release. Do this on both sides. Do it till nither of you can stand it any longer. by that I mean she does it so well that she gets to be automatic with the slightest of pressure.
> 
> Once you have worked on that start to work on these exsesizes. You get hip over by asking for her head while walking forward. Her feet should cross. For hips you will go the same with a little bit of pressure to the back.
> 
> ...


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Along with the above, I would work on the ground with disengaging the hindquarters. Then practice the neck flexing to get softness at the beginning or every ride and whenever she gets stiff. Then when her feet get sticky and you try to get her to go forward, turn her as you ask for movement. Flex the neck around, disengage her, and move her off. Than way, she is more apt to go forward, not up.


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

franknbeans said:


> Along with the above, I would work on the ground with disengaging the hindquarters. Then practice the neck flexing to get softness at the beginning or every ride and whenever she gets stiff. Then when her feet get sticky and you try to get her to go forward, turn her as you ask for movement. Flex the neck around, disengage her, and move her off. Than way, she is more apt to go forward, not up.


good post. I forgot to mention that.


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## ShezaCharmer (Mar 13, 2010)

I agree with the above posts. Also when Charm bucked I would make her work harder. If a horse has the energy and is healthy and fit enough to buck they have enough energy to canter and do circles, side passes, and the such. My perosnal felocity. Making this horse work hard will get her attention on the rider and doing circles and exercises related to flexing the neck will not allow her to buck and rear as easily.

Rearing I haven't had the joyous chance to correct yet. The horses I have ridden never have reared except for one horse that hopped up once or twice which I took a crop a whacked them one on the shoulder. Don't take this advicce though because I have no experience really with rearers.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

As Clinton Anderson said this weekend after Pat Parelli hit the dirt-when they are very forward, the rarely go up or buck. It is the ones who get stuck you have to worry about. So true. Please watch the video of Pat getting bucked off Saturday at the Road to the horse. He kept the turn and did not disengage. Horse spun faster and faster and then blew. The key for all of them this weekend(Chris Cox, Clinton and Pat Parelli) seemed to be FORWARD. THey may buck, fine, but keep them going forward. If allowed to stop, that is a reward to them. They could only stop when they were told to and when they were moving.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

My last horse would do this, she would go into a very dangerous rodeo ride every time at the canter. She vet checked, saddle and teeth fine. 

Is there one gait that she does this at or is it random?

My horse did this every time she cantered, she was out and out dangerous. I spent a year just walking and trotting and gaining respect and response in those gaits, and I still did not break her of it. I ended up giving her away to someone who knew her problems, because she cleared a 5' foot fence while doing this. 

I hope that you have more luck than I did. But what I will say with all this negative info, is that it is really important that whoever is riding has a good seat, it totally reinforces it to the horse if they are able to throw the rider. I stayed on through sheer determination and hatred.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

First I would say that what the horse is doing requires a lot of energy. Even really hot horses don't like to buck and rear unless they have a good reason for it in their own head. 

So what is the reason for her? Is she a frightened type of horse and being asked to do more than she is comfortable doing? Is she out of shape and being asked to exercise too much? Do her feet hurt? Is she being held back when others are running away from her? 

The rearing scenario sounded like it could have happened because she was being held back when others were cantering away. Just from the description that was what I was picturing. In that case it might be better to let her at least trot out rather than trying to hold her back if she is the type of horse that doesn't like to get left behind.
The other thing is, does she really buck or just kick out? In the photos posted it looks more like she is just kicking out with her back legs since her head is never down. That would be what I would consider a tantrum and not related to fear so I would just give her a good smack and get her moving in some form or another so she couldn't avoid the work.
Whoever is riding in the photo has quite looping reins which makes me think someone more experienced with bucking could help the horse a lot more. I would never give a bucking horse (or a kicking out horse) a loose, looping rein. 

Sometimes it helps to use a ten-ring martingale to gain control of a horse's head if they have already learned to buck. Make sure the bit is not too much for the horse and causing the horse to explode from too much pressure on her mouth.


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## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

I have a horse that did this though not as bad but is was slowly getting worse he would go forward then just decide he didn't want to do it anymore. The bucks were normally a joyful thing for him but his rearing was to avoid the work. My instructer (because im only a beginner) tried him and when he reared she would lean forward but would give him a good hard kick so he would have to take a step forward. I never actually saw her do this but he seemed to not do it as much with her afterwards. She had to stop though cause she got sick and he came back to me and I can't ride him so I've done whats previously been said with groundwork and its improved him A LOT on the ground but I haven't been game to try him under saddle because I'm not the most confident rider. It has also prevented me from selling. Good luck


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

Not looking for an argument here at all but you will notice from the pictures posted that the front feet are planted like a tree and the back end is off the ground.

The term "disengage the hind quarters" is not named correctly because as you ask the rear end to move you are *"Engaging"* it and that is why I have a problem with the term.

If a horse is rearing they are using their *BACK* end and if they are bucking they are using their *FRONT* end for support.

The key to stopping the behavior is to take that balance away from them as horses hate being out of balance.

In many cases horses act out in protest because they are out of balance in a part of their body and are not comfortable and it is an adjustment for them.

You might notice that when a horse is stall kept for an extended time they will run,roll,and buck or rear to "adjust and stretch" their body after standing.
They are trying to put their body back into* comfort and balance.*


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## KawaiiCharlie (Nov 17, 2010)

myhorsesonador said:


> Insted of tataly retyping a respons I'm going to copy my respons from a diffrent thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## KawaiiCharlie (Nov 17, 2010)

AlexS said:


> My last horse would do this, she would go into a very dangerous rodeo ride every time at the canter. She vet checked, saddle and teeth fine.
> 
> Is there one gait that she does this at or is it random?
> 
> ...


its completely random, but in the paddock its pretty much constantly, she'll walk or trot a few paces, then stop. i couldnt even get her to canter last time in there because every time i asked she would stop then buck when i tried to get her to move forward.


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## KawaiiCharlie (Nov 17, 2010)

gottatrot said:


> First I would say that what the horse is doing requires a lot of energy. Even really hot horses don't like to buck and rear unless they have a good reason for it in their own head.
> 
> So what is the reason for her? Is she a frightened type of horse and being asked to do more than she is comfortable doing? Is she out of shape and being asked to exercise too much? Do her feet hurt? Is she being held back when others are running away from her?
> 
> ...


shes not the frightened type at all, infact shes quite bulshy. she will give you a shove with her head if you're standing next to her, and occasionally bite wile leading her..or strike out like she done with me the other day. 
& no she wasnt being held back i had planned on trotting at the same time as the rider in front, but i didnt get a chance because she threw a fit and started leaping about.. and the rearing was after we tried to trot, and the rider in front was literally only walking a meter in front of us and there was another rider behind the whole time. in the paddock, its more kicking out, but sometimes she does this weird thing where her front hooves come off the ground first & she'll like jump up and buck at the same time.. its hard to explain really. & ive given her a smack plenty of times, because she'll completely ignore my leg, if she ignores it twice she gets a smack, thats when she kicks out/bucks. ive tried using the crop on her shoulder, but that just makes her rear. 

thats me riding in the photos, and thats not the reins you can see. thats the martingale. i know its far too loose, i told her owner but she said it helped last time she rode her....clearly not. but her owner isnt really experienced & shes quite nervous. and shes only in a french link snaffle, its not too harsh for her at all.. if anything she needs a stronger bit, because shes bolted with me out on a ride full gallop down the middle of a road and i couldnt stop her for anything


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

if she were yours I would tell you to start over 

since she's not all I can really say is when she acts out push her forward mmoving feet don't rear or buck they go forward


and it's called disengaging because you are taking their power away when you make them cross thier hind end like that


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## KawaiiCharlie (Nov 17, 2010)

Peggysue said:


> if she were yours I would tell you to start over
> 
> since she's not all I can really say is when she acts out push her forward mmoving feet don't rear or buck they go forward
> 
> ...


we cant get her to move foward when shes doing it, she does it because we're trying to make her move.


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

then make her life h e double hockey sticks (LL) until she does move just be prepared for the fight and fight it out... 

sounds to be like a bratty pony who has found a way to get out of work 

I would get her flexing ... she wants to stand there flex her back and forth and back and forth (don't PULL her around) just take a hold and hold with light pressure like asking her gently to turn when she gives release and take up the other rein you have to get control first and right now you don't have it 

If you know how to ground drive do that and MAKE her move that way when she bucks and rears you aren't in AS MUCH danger 

the kick outs spank her butt for she is just refusing but if you stop her everytime she does it you are rewarding her for it cause she wants to stop


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## Citrus (Feb 26, 2010)

One rein stops and disengaging the hind quarters.... there are many videos on you tube demonstrating it. 

And continue to wear the helmet and perhaps a protective vest...... and don't ride near things that a human could be impaled upon until the horse has settled.


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## Gizmo (Dec 19, 2010)

Hmm, I would go with what everyone has been saying about natural horsemanship techniques. The neck bending works awesome because all they can do is move in a circle, she is isn't going to be able to get her head up to buck or rear. This is one of my favorite tools ever. 
Secondly, you say she only does it when she stops. So you can probably predict when she is going to stop. I would personally push he when it seems like she may be thinking about stopping. Then she isn't going to stop, or I would do the neck bending really quickly before she can. This is going to stop her habit of stopping and bucking, because she is going to realize she can't get away with it. That would be the goal anyways. I would start with doing the ground training of the neck bending. Once she gets it start by getting on her and then bending her head in and then once she gets that then do it when she stops and is going to buck, but do it before she is going to do. 
If that doesn't work. Post again and I'm sure we all can thing of something else to try.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

> we cant get her to move foward when shes doing it, she does it because we're trying to make her move.


This horse is learning to Balk. Balking is usually the result of the horse being asked to do too much and too soon in training. A horse who is moving forward can LEAP but it is very difficult for that horse to buck or rear. Rearing as you know is extremely dangerous. 

This behavior is so dangerous that I think it is dangerous for you to be on the internet asking about it. You should be talking to a trainer who can see everything first hand. 

Ground work and training the horse to mover forward on cue never hurts. Lunging the horse for awhile before riding may help too.


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

from the sounds of it I bet this mare will rear on the lunge line too... and if she did my whip would meet her front legs then hiney lickity split


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## KawaiiCharlie (Nov 17, 2010)

no shes really good on the lunge, you have trouble slowing her down though lol


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

that is surprising... have you ever tried driving her??


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## KawaiiCharlie (Nov 17, 2010)

nopee never tried that


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

So it sounds like she is not trying to compete with other horses and she is not fearful. And she works well on the lunge. So she must either be trying to get out of the work or else something in her tack is bothering her. You said her saddle, etc. fits. However, I would revisit all her tack again. Is the cinch sliding around and pinching, has her shape changed and the saddle doesn't fit anymore, does the bit bother her, etc. Even a mild snaffle can bother some horses if it is too thin, too fat, or too heavy. And horses can change shape dramatically with just a few pounds gained or lost. Even "custom" saddles can fit one month and pinch the horse the next. And make sure her feet don't hurt. A poor trim or stone bruising can make a horse very sour about working, especially out on a road. 

If several experienced horse people are in agreement that her saddle and tack are not bothering her, then I would call this a "tantrum." The moment she pulled one of these shenanigans I would jump off and let her know on no uncertain terms that this is not acceptable behavior. When the behavior happened I would get off, get in her face and back her up quickly, turn her around, make her trot with me and do some turns, just generally make her work for awhile. Then after she seemed to realize she had been disciplined I'd get back on and try a nice, relaxed walk. Any good behavior would be rewarded with relaxation. All bad behavior would be met with more work (sounds safer from the ground at this point) and discipline. 

Just because the horse is being bad under saddle doesn't mean you have to do the disciplining from their back.


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