# Shod horses and herd turnout?



## BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 (Apr 11, 2016)

Could you try plastic or rubber shoes?


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Boarding places have horses that come an go, thus that herd order and all that goes with it, constantly goes on, thus many insist that back shoes be pulled
MOst allow front shoes, with pasture turn out in a herd 
Myself, I have no problem having shod hroses turned out together, as everyone knows their place.
I even have them turned out with sharp shoes, for that one setting in late fall, but these are my own horses, and ina closed herd


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Trail riding outfits, working ranch horses, are all turned out together, shod.
Boarding places just have to cover their 'a.s', far as liability, and that is why the rule, and not because turning shod horses out is that big of a deal.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

I could ask about plastic/rubber, but they do cost more, and simply not turning her out with other horses doesn't. So if it's unsafe to turn a horse shod all 4 out with other horses, I won't do it. Simples!


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

I don't own land, I do board, so that does come into it. She needs the shoes either way. She'll get them. And if that means she has to be turned out on her own, so be it.

Her paddock buddy is not my horse, and is a horse she knows, they just like testing each other. If that comes into it any.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Kicks while shod can put a lot more punch in the impact....
Cuts, slices, deep bruises and broken bones I have found resulted more from shod than barefoot hooves.

I've only seen in the news what a fist to face {skin to skin} injuries looked like and then when "brass knuckles" were worn and beat on someones face...
A huge difference in depth of injury although both cause damage. 

Personally, if I know my horse kicks others...
My horse would _only_ have solitary turnout...
Barefoot or not I would not want to come to the barn to find my horse kicked another horse in turnout, broke a leg of someone elses horse and that horse had to be destroyed...
_No, just no._
If my horse was turned out with another, known that kicked and was injured...
I would be furious my horses safety was thought so little of.
Is that a risk you're willing to take of yours injured or yours giving the injury?
_No group turnout *ever *with known kickers..._

I had a friend who had her horse turned out with another...
Her horse spun and kicked with a double-barrel shot, landed one hoof to a foreleg that stood no chance.
The other horse was euthanized in the spot it fell and could not get up...
_It was very sad and very avoidable. _

To me, front shod is not as dangerous, but when playing injuries happen with a rear and strike too...
Only you can decide just what degree of chance you want to take...
The game of "kick me if you can" with injury and possible death as a result of one impact...is not one I want to participate in.
:runninghorse2:....
_jmo..._


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Her buddy is the known kicker... belted her for no good reason the other day... needless to say I was distinctly unimpressed. But, not my horse, not a huge amount I can do about it.

My girl is the one that gets picked on if turned out with the wrong horses.

BUT. Horses will be horses, and I have seen her fight back. She's lightning fast with those hind feet when she wants to be. 

I can always use "yeah but the shoes..." as an excuse not to have to turn her out with the known kicker.....


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## Copperhead (Jun 27, 2012)

We turned our polo ponies out with all four feet in shoes. Disagreements happen sometimes. One of the mares was kicked at the Point of the Shoulder and it took a long time to heal. However, thats just the risk that particular facility decided to take. They were high competition horses and needed turn out. During polo season they all had shoes and studs, but in the off season their shoes were pulled.

Consequently, the injury that came from the shoed horse wasn't as bad as the injury that happened to another horse while everyone was unshod. While the shoed kick landed a good blow that kept that particular horse out of the game for the season, we found one of the horses (during the off season) with her head nearly kicked in. No shoes, just brute power. We had her head X-Rayed and it didn't damage too much, but she looked pretty strange with a partially caved in noggin.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

I had to board for several years. My horse and the BO's horse were always turned out together. They were both alpha geldings but they never argued --- they were shod all the way around as we did a lot of trail riding.

I can fully understand your barn's rule however, regarding no back shoes. As *Smilie* commented, it's a CYA liability issue. If my horse were in with a known kicker, I would want the back shoes off too


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

Very common for there to be a no back shoe rule, fronts have been allowed in my experience. The barn I knew that demanded no shoes was dogmatically based, not safety. I had no issues turning mine out while shod on the fronts. I can't recall if anyone had any back shoes at that place.


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## EstrellaandJericho (Aug 12, 2017)

My first horse got kicked by a shod horse in a front leg causing a hairline fracture and ultimately he had to be put to sleep. Do so at your own risk.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

If the boarding barns/livery yards have a rule then really not much you can do about it as generally speaking they've already made up their minds on the matter.
I worked in riding schools and livery yards in the UK where the majority of horses we always shod because they did a lot of roadwork and in those days boots were unheard of. We had no more problems with injuries resulting from horses kicking each other than I see now in barefoot horses.
The problem is a horse that's a real bully and how new horses are introduced into a herd not in the shoes


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

My friends have always turned out their horses with four shoes, some will kick out now and then, they haven't had problems.

My other friend's horse killed another horse several months ago by kicking out and hitting the point of shoulder, breaking it - the horse was put down. The horse that kicked was barefoot. 

I've also seen a horse badly injured in the shoulder by running into another horse shoulder to shoulder.
I think freak accidents happen shod or unshod.

The best we can do is separate horses that don't get along and beat on one another. If get along with no shoes, I'd say they are fine to go out together with shoes on.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

In the two places I've been, horses with hind shoes don't go out with others. Fronts ok. Seems like that's pretty common.

At my current place, it's generally single turnout in large, adjacent paddocks regardless. My two were out together but my older mare was a terror to the younger and wouldn't let her anywhere near the water. So, back to single for them.


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

I just don't know. Here's one opinion.

Study Confirms Kicks From Shod Horses Can Damage Bone | TheHorse.com


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

^ I was just hunting down that article to post. Shod hooves are much more likely to cause damage than unshod, even with a relatively minor impact.

An aquaintance lost her gelding when her husband's shod mare kicked at him in play and shattered his leg. A friend's mini died when her shod gelding kicked him through a fence. Again, not hard, but it was enough to end his life. I won't turn my horses out with those with back shoes.


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

But then there gottatrot's example that they can do each other in barefoot also. But I think I would personally prefer to be kicked barefoot rather than shod. That said, nothing particularly soft about a barefoot hoof either.


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

It depends on the dynamics of the herd, in my mind. An established herd where there aren't many changes and everyone has their "place" figured out, it would likely be OK. One where you have a lot of boisterous young horses, a lot of herd turnover, anything where arguments are more likely to happen, I'd choose to keep them off. 

I never would have allowed my mule to stay in his pasture with anyone shod. He wasn't a total pushover, but middle-to-low on the pecking order in an all-gelding herd. They were pretty explosive at times when they played, and everyone always came to dinner looking like a bunch of rowdy little boys who'd been beating up on each other all day. 

That said, in my experience most barns with group turnout don't allow rear shoes. All it takes is one solid thump to do some real damage, and then the BO is the one dealing with upset boarders and injured horses. So it really is a CYA move in most instances.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

If you've ever been kicked by a shod horse vs. an unshod horse, the answer to this question is pretty clear. Of course, a horse can still be injured by a kick from an unshod herdmate, but the risk is a lot lower for catastrophic injury than with a shod horse. 

Even established herds, unless all of the horses are lazy deadheads, still run and kick out in play.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Cheers all 

My mare needs the hind shoes, there's no question on that. It's not a case of "oh it's not safe to turn her out with a herd with hind shoes on so I won't put hind shoes on"... she NEEDS them, it would be actively doing her harm to deny her them. She's getting them early in the new year when the farrier is out again. More of a case of if she's going to be turned out alone or with her buddy once she's got them on.

Which at this point it's looking like she won't be, because as others have said, why take the risk? Her paddock buddy isn't my horse. I spoke to the other horse's owner & basically we've agreed they won't be together unsupervised once my girl is shod. I'd rather start keeping them completely separate NOW because my mare has separation anxiety... but I can't afford to make a fuss over it.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Meh. I've never had a problem mixing shod and unshod. 

The owners of horses known to kick pay extra because they have to be separated. If they don't tell someone else will. The polo community is relatively small.

You sound sensible and like you have it figured out. You know you have to play by the BOs rules, and can't afford to buck them right now. I hope all goes well for you and your horse. It most likely will.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

I should clarify I'm not actually at the barn with that rule anymore - they wouldn't separate Ikora out of a herd she was being badly bullied in, so I left. The place I'm currently at is very small, only me and the owner of the other horse, and we have basically full control over everything (between the two of us) as long as we don't overgraze any of the paddocks. 

I mentioned the rule because I figured if it was such a common one there had to be a reason for it. 

Nutting out the details of this separation of the girls is the next step. I'll be talking to the owner of the other horse again tonight & will see how we end up proceeding. It's less than 2 weeks until the shoes go on.


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