# Tieing up a horse - caution



## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

For those newer to horses, never, ever tie a horse that is wearing a rope/knotted halter. Should the horse pull back it may react by suddenly leaping forward, hitting it's face and snapping it's neck. Someone is now advertising "breakaway" rope halters which uses a leather strap over the poll. This strap is barely wider than the rope and could have the same devastating effect. I work with leather and it sometimes takes considerable strength to break it on a straight pull. Because it is over a sensitive part of the horse's head, there is no guarantee it will break. The person advocating this product told me she has consulted professionals and has their approval. (she didn't name the professionals) A horse should never be tied nor turned out when wearing a rope halter, even one with a leather poll strap. The buckle on this strap is fairly small and if a horse moves it's head trying to get this buckled, or better yet, unbuckled, to me would become annoying very quickly.


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## bodidley7 (Apr 23, 2014)

totally agree! especially Paracord made ones! big no no! I don't even tie my gelding because he has spooked and pulled back resulting in him being headshy for a few months and a huge rope burn on my back and shoulder!


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

The only halters I've ever tied or turned out with are leather ones that I weaken the poll (?) or noseband on. Fairly easy to do, and gives when a horse pulls back. Better for my peace of mind and the horse's health imo. (For what it's worth I don't like to use rope halters when training, have had the same scenario as tying and have a mistrust of them since....)


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## PSNapier (Oct 23, 2012)

Hmm... to each their own. My mentor was always of the entirely opposite opinion.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

^^I'm right there with you, PS. But, as you said, to each their own.


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## Blue (Sep 4, 2011)

A horse should be properly taught to stand quietly while tied.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

It happened with a friend's horse. He was tied with a rope halter to "teach him patience". Broke his neck when he slammed his face into the barn wall as he leapt forward to escape the pain when pulling back. When it comes to Murphy's Law we need to continually ask ourselves "If I do this....or that....what could go wrong?" A newbie might think of one thing whereas experience may think of four or five things.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I've been tying in rope halters for years. I had no idea you weren't supposed to. This is the first I've heard of it. 

I can see how a horse might leap forward and break it's neck. That's a horrible thing to happen. Couldn't the horse have done the same thing in any halter though?

The problem with having a break-away halter is the horse learns it can get away if it thrashes hard enough. I don't want that problem either. That can be very dangerous for horse and handler. My very first horse would "set back" at random times while tied. He broke a halter or two and once took a barn door off the hinges.


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

One more reason to dislike rope halters! I bought one and it always seemed like it would stretch out, get too big, the knots would get too tight and was a pain to adjust! I remember taking a fork to try and get the knots loose.


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Thankfully the worst I've seen with rope halters was when we had a filly get stung by a bee during training. She was wearing a rope halter and being lunged, got stung, freaked and between shaking her head, and stepping on the rope/pulling it taunt she cut her face open something fierce. 

Knew another gelding who was trained to stand quiet, got spooked and the rope didn't give way. He fractured his skull due to all the pulling and fighting (and it was not easy on the hands trying to get that rope undone). 

I typically don't use a breakaway halter when teaching how to stand, I do what my dad called a 'sailing oh crap' knot, and stand far enough away. All I have to do is pull the line and the entire rope comes undone and I have control. 

I've just had a bit of a wariness about them since that. But it's personal preference, to each there own!


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## Toucan (Sep 8, 2012)

I'll only ever tie to bailing twine & have an easy release knot.

It's all a bit scary thinking about the damage they could do to themselves with any halter in one of those situations.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Toucan said:


> I'll only ever tie to bailing twine & have an easy release knot.
> 
> It's all a bit scary thinking about the damage they could do to themselves with any halter in one of those situations.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree it's scary if they panic. But isn't it also scary if they panic and the halter breaks and they fly backwards?

I guess I see it as a loosing proposition anytime they set back. If they set back and thrash, it's bad. If they set back and the halter breaks, it's bad. About the only good thing is if they never sit back at all. Or if they set back and come back forwards without hurting themselves.

The gelding that was my first horse who would set back quite unpredictably, I would tie in a Be-Nice-Halter, which I have since learned you aren't supposed to tie in either, but at the time I didn't know. And it was the only thing that would get him to come back forward again. He would either thrash until something broke or with the Be-Nice-Halter he would come back forward again and release the pressure. So that actually worked for that particular horse. I think he learned from it that coming forward was the way to release pressure, vs. thrashing until something breaks.

Once a horse has the tendency to set back though, I don't know if they can ever be fully cured. They can always revert to that behavior again if they panic. It's better they just never learn the bad habit to begin with if possible.

I guess what I'm saying is, I don't want them learning that by setting back they will get a release because I don't want to teach them they can do that and get loose. Then it can become a habit. But maybe my thinking is skewed. I'm far from being a trainer.


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## Toucan (Sep 8, 2012)

Yes I agree all are scary. 
If the get scared & thrash & hurt themselves.
If they break the halter/twine/rope & give themselves a release & think that it's ok & do it again.
Or if they break loose & bolt, tread on the rope or trip or go through a fence...

The scenarios are endless, none have a good outcome really
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Over the years I have come to the conclusion that if they are going to kill themselves then they will!

Quiet young horse tied for the farrier. He had on an old leather head collar which was well past its best. His rope was also old and frayed. Tied to bailer twine.

For some unknown reason he pulled back, went down, thrashed around, the farrier had cut the twine at this point. 
Horse knocked itself out and although given a chance, never recovered. 

Something should have broken before him.

I have seen horses seriously injured because they were tied to a gate and panicked taking the gate with them.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

I do not believe this particular issue was a halter problem. It is a problem of the location of the patience pole.

I was taught a patience pole she be a free standing, not in close proximity to other buildings, fences, etc., to keep the horse from crashing into things/building/fences.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

'should' not 'she'........sheeesh!...lol


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

Incitatus32 said:


> .... my dad called a 'sailing oh crap' knot, and stand far enough away. All I have to do is pull the line and the entire rope comes undone ...


I use a knot that must be like yours, called the John Wayne Knot, or Bank Robbers knot. 

My current gelding did get hung up one time. The rope was tied to a 2 inch ring, the line was 5/8", When suddenly pulled the knot was jammed up to the ring so hard and quickly that it jammed, when I pulled on the tail the one piece that needed to would not come back through the ring.

I thought maybe his right knee was hurt from 2 hard landings on the concrete. As it turns out his right front foot was hurt from the repeated hard smacks on the concrete, then compounded by underrun heels.

It took a few months for it to get bad enough to realize it needed vet attention. I took him to a lameness vet who said he had a strained sub-something tendon down the back of the lower leg and around his heel.

Vet suggested limited mobility and keep him quiet for 3 months, then no weight til spring. He specified not stall rest, as he did not think Chief would tolerate that well. 

It was not at all the fault of the rope halter, it was my fault and the line was too long and too thick for the ring. 

Here is the thread where I describe the incident: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-talk/my-horse-trusted-me-today-454586/


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

I am all for rope halters.
That issue could happen with any halter, not just rope ones.
Rope ones are better and I won't ever go of of them.
your horse should be able to stand, and like some of the others said - I don't want my horse learning that if he throws his head hard enough he can escape.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I think the answer is to never leave a tied horse alone - or too far from assistance if things go wrong and to use a quick release snap at the point you tie the horse too - no need to go near a thrashing horse to release it and then unfasten a lot faster than a quick release knot that's had 1000lb pressure put on it


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

anndankev said:


> I use a knot that must be like yours, called the John Wayne Knot, or Bank Robbers knot.
> 
> My current gelding did get hung up one time. The rope was tied to a 2 inch ring, the line was 5/8", When suddenly pulled the knot was jammed up to the ring so hard and quickly that it jammed, when I pulled on the tail the one piece that needed to would not come back through the ring.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry to hear that. Yes it can happen with ANY halter/lead. I've just shied away from rope halters, just my personal preference. I don't know I just might have bad luck with them! lol  I hope he is doing better now!


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## BreezylBeezyl (Mar 25, 2014)

Saddlebag said:


> It happened with a friend's horse. He was tied with a rope halter to "teach him patience". Broke his neck when he slammed his face into the barn wall as he leapt forward to escape the pain when pulling back. When it comes to Murphy's Law we need to continually ask ourselves "If I do this....or that....what could go wrong?" A newbie might think of one thing whereas experience may think of four or five things.


I'm not entirely convinced that the halter is what caused the issue, especially if the claim is that the horse rammed forward to escape the pain of the halter when it set back.

If your horse is setting back, there is going to be pain and resistance there no matter what halter you are using. That's 1100lbs of pressure pulling on one point (a sensitive point) of the horse's body. Sure, rope halters have a smaller surface area and may be _more_ painful in this situation, but how are we to know whether the horse decided to move forward because of pain or the fear of resistance? Many horses panic when backed into a corner - this could be no different. Fear.

The horse pulls back and, in fear of the resistance of the sudden pressure and realizing that it can't get away by setting back, moves forward to try and escape the situation. It was mentioned the horse has patience issues, so wasn't it likely the horse would not react well to the resistance, from setting back or being tied in general? I think this situation is slightly different from the norm.

Again, I'm not entirely convinced. I'd need way more data before coming to a conclusion, I think. I have never heard anyone tell me not to tie a horse with a rope halter, or to tie using one over the other, and I have been around a variety of horse people and trainers. So maybe I also don't get the stigma in the first place and this is a bit of a shock to me.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

It's not worth taking the risk. We don't know what forces can suddenly cause a horse to flip out. We are dealing not only with external forces but what's going on in it's head. A horse hears well for a mile and if he becomes convinced there's a predator he'll begin to focus his other senses. Restless behaviour should be our warning that the horse is feeling trapped and it's time to untie it. Or ignore it so it learns patience and maybe a wreck will happen, especially if it's wearing a knotted halter.


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## BarrelracingArabian (Mar 31, 2010)

That can happen no matter what you use. I've been tying with a rope halter for the past 5 years and even with a horse who liked to set back HARD never had a problem like this. Things happen and I think there is more to this story then just a halter. Sorry Ill stick with my rope halters. As you said to each their own.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

I won't use anything but a rope halter. But I have taken the TIME and TRAINING to teach my horses to give to pressure and teach them how to respond in a stressful situation. A 6 month old colt learning how to tie? Of course, that situation is different and will need to be addressed differently. A horse with known "pulling back" issues and training issues will also need to be addressed differently, and be trained.

I go to horse shows all the time by myself and I haul two horses. Therefore, when I am riding one, the other one is unattended at my horse trailer. They both will tie all day long without an issue. 

From the sounds of it, your friends horse would have caused damaged no matter what halter was on its head, because it clearly didn't understand how to _give to pressure _and only knows how to panic.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Never liked rope halters. ALSO, got REALLY tired of the OTTB who, at 8yo didn't know how to tie calmly. FINALLY fixed that after...one year.
I am a fan of leather or triple ply nylon halters. When I tie, I just buckle them, leaving the end undone, instead of completely running the end through. In the past I've had a horse fight this halter and it wasn't hard to get close and unbuckle it. Plus these halters have some slack and I've seen more than one horse pull out of them. Some people like to tie a piece of baling twine to the halter and buckle, bc a horse fighting a lead can break it. There are also quick release apparatus, like I have on my trailer ties.
MOST IMPORTANT: Teach your horse to tie.


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## TessaMay (Jul 26, 2013)

I will tie in a rope halter and have never had a problem. My 3-ply flat nylon halter that I use most often would not break any easier than my rope halter would. It's about training the horse to respond to pressure correctly, not about the halter itself. Yes, anything can happen and horses often hurt themselves in freak accidents. Yes, there are things you can do to help prevent those accidents, but that doesn't make one kind of halter the devil. 

The only tying accident I have had was when I was a kid, I tied the mare I leased with an easy release knot and left enough line that she could eat hay off of the ground while I untacked her. The rope ended up going over her head, just behind the ears. She freaked out and set back from the unusual pressure, tightening the knot too much for me to untie it. My training walked in and cut the rope and told me never to do it again. 

The fault in that story lies with me, not the nylon halter she was wearing for not breaking, not the lead rope for getting wrapped around her in a way that made her spook. Just me.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

I have been using and tying with rope halters all my life with no issues. I hadn't used a nylon web or leather halter until I went to work for show barns. 

I say, use common sense no matter what kind of halter you use.
For example, don't tie a colt being saddled for the first time to a gate and hock the cinch into him


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## kewpalace (Jul 17, 2013)

Another satisfied rope halter user here. Have used them for years and never had any problems or injuries related to them. Yes, I tie them in their rope halters. No worries to me if others don't like them ... that's why we have choices!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I think the bigger issue here is not the type of halter that is used, but rather the lack of training the horse had and, more than likely, the lack of proper tying. I have always been taught that, if there is even a remote chance of a horse pulling, you are supposed to tie them short and high. Above wither level and just enough lead so that they can stand relaxed without the halter pulling on them.

Tying a horse with a lead too long can result in said situation of horse lunging forward and breaking it's neck. Tied short, a horse doesn't have enough space to build up momentum enough to break anything (most of the time). Tied low, it can yank their neck down (not sure the technical cause of this, perhaps torn muscles/tendons or fractured vertebrae in the neck??). Tied high, that isn't a probability.

Like others, I have been tying hard and fast in rope halters my entire life and my Dad had for years before that. Being trainers, often dealing with other people's "problem" horses (including those that have been taught to set back and fight until something breaks), we've had our fair share that would set back and fight. Do you know how many serious injuries we've had as a result of that...of the thousands of horses that have been through here in the last 50+ years? NONE.

We've had horses break their legs playing in the pasture, we've had horses cripple themselves in nearly every way possible that there is no prevention for. We've had horses colic and die, horses go blind, even had one horse that ate locoweed and ended up having to be put down.

I guess it's all a matter of where you find the bigger risk. For me, living on a very busy county road and less than a mile from 2 separate _major_ highways, having a loose horse is a much bigger risk than having one pick a fight with the barn support post.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Yes, because rope halters are (generally) so thin & strong, I am more cautious about hard tying with them. I don't think it's a good move to tie a horse with anything if not first trained though. The scenario you describe Saddle - the horse pulls back, lurches forward & bashes it's head, could happen regardless what kind of halter is used though. I'm concerned that the strong, thin rope, when pulled back against, can cause damage to the neck a lot more easily than a nice wide collar. That they're not easily breakable also means that if you don't pay attention to the rest of your equipment, the horse could put a lot more panic/effort into the pullback, so in addition to potential direct injury, when something(often the snap on the rope) gives, the horse can do a more violent... backflip. Broken withers & concussion is a common result of that. Or worse, you use unbreakable equipment, but tie to a fence rail or such that can break away... or be dragged! Not that those things are necessarily related to rope halters.

So... yes, tying up a horse firmly in any way is potentially dangerous. IMO tying in something like a rope halter does increase the risk a bit. BUT tying to baler's twine or something easily breakable is not safe in many situations(tying firm & unbreakable if on the side of a road is kinda necessary for eg), and can also just teach a horse to resist pressure to get loose - effectively teach him NOT to tie up. 

So in addition to paying attention to the rest of the equipment & what the horse is tied TO, I want to ensure the horse is well trained to yield to pressure, stand tied, desensitised to 'stuff' to lessen likelihood of a panic attack, BEFORE they're hard tied to/with anything. Yes, I did mean to say I teach to tie up before hard tying. ;-)


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

PSNapier said:


> Hmm... to each their own. My mentor was always of the entirely opposite opinion.


Entirely opposite of what exactly? Tying in a rope halter? Tying to something breakable? Horses breaking their necks??


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## BreakableRider (Aug 14, 2013)

I tie in rope halters as well. As someone that worked for a horse trader for many years, i've tied thousands upon thousands of horses in them and i've never had a problem because of the halter choice. 

If I don't know the horse, I use a blocker tie ring and a long lead to teach a horse to tie. I'll gradually increase the friction setting until I am comfortable tying hard after a few days. While tied with the tie ring, the horse has to deal with the every day world. Cars might pull in, horses might ride by, the tractor may be running, his or her buddies may leave, i'll desensitize the horse while tied etc. Everything is closely monitored during this period as well. By the time I actually tie, the horse knows how to give to pressure and how to relax with new stimulus so there isn't an issue. 

I would much rather tie my horse to something that can't break, than the risk of what can happen when a horse gets loose. As has been said before, tie short and high. If you tie low, a horse can paw, get their leg over the rope and get into a real bind. If you tie too long, the horse can get a lot of momentum going.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

There is no 'one size fits all' and as someone already said, you can do everything just right and a horse can still self-destruct if it takes a notion to. The main thing I think that should be considered is that it is usually spoiled or poorly trained horses that hurt themselves or it was handler error (like tying too long or to a movable object. Not always -- but usually. 

As far as I'm concerned, the horse written about did not break his neck because he was tied solidly and it sure was not because of the kind of halter he was tied with. He broke his neck because he was poorly trained . Had he been properly trained to tie right, he would have given to the halter just as soon as it pulled on his head -- period!

Here is a photo taken last month of some of our horses -- all tied solidly with rope halters and nylon leads. This particular set of horses range in age from 3 to 20. This is NOT where I teach them to tie, but once taught correctly, they will tie anywhere.

I have known far more horses that were injured because they broke a halter or lead. I was at a show one time and a horse broke its halter, ran out on the road and was hit by a car. The horse had to be put down right there and an ambulance hauled off two people. We later heard that one of them was in critical condition and not expected to live. I've seen too many loose horses run through fences or get out on busy roads. 

I live on a very busy US highway. Several thousand semis go past every singe day. Any of my horses would be in far greater danger if they were able to get loose and run around.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Cherie, the tragedy was that my friend had sent her colt for training. She had never tied him as she wanted him started right. The trainer knew the colt had never been tied. No one seems to have read the part where I addressed my concerns to newer owners.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

A friend of mine asked me to help her move her mare and foal. The foal was about 4 months old.

We were walking back and the foal decided to plant all four feet. I didn't get behind him but took a steady pull on the halter, he started to struggle back but I just held steady until he too a forward step. 
Friend was having a fit. He planted again moments later. Again the steady contact and this time he moved to give to the pressure. 
When he came to me he tied with no hassle at all because he knew how to gove to the pressure. 

When I was taking some exams the practical involved ten horses all tied around the inside of an indoor arena for bandaging, tack fitting and a lot of other things. 
Two of us were sat in the gallery marking ailments and points PF the horse on charts. 
There was a simulainious crash of thunder and flash of lightning, which struck the roof of the arena. Majority of the horses pulled free, making for the open doors. 
I jumped down and stood in the gap waving my arms to make them turn, fortunately they did! 
These were quiet riding school horses that would have stood tied all day bar the Lightning strike.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

Corporal said:


> When I tie, I just buckle them, leaving the end undone, instead of completely running the end through.


 Glad I am not alone in this practice.
We also use Blocker Tie Rings.


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## GoldSahara (May 4, 2010)

Does anyone else use the Blocker tie ring? Have you liked it?


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## Blue (Sep 4, 2011)

I have a blocker tie. I tried using it to teach a "set back king" to stand tied, but all he did was step further and further to find the end of the rope. At 30' I gave up. I plan to use it for my mare when I'm out with the trailer just as a convenience. She gives nicely and trusts me completely so even if she did step back I'm confident it would serve it's purpose for her.

Saddlebag, I'm truly sorry this happened to your friend's horse. So many heartbreaking things can happen. They're like children. If there's trouble to be gotten, they'll get it, right?


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

YOU are the brains in this team, and you have to think FOR your horse. I expect my horses to stand tied, where I tie them, for as long I want them to stay. There are good reasons, including keeping your horse from running into traffic, just like you should teach your dog to sit on the lawn next to you when someone pulls their car into the driveway or leaves.
I teach my horses to push the gate open, on verbal command, and expect them to be able to open the gate of the stall, in an emergency without me there. Once I was sick, and didn't let my gelding out of his stall until around 1PM. He let himself out and I found him grazing in the fenced in area in front of the barn. We have a deal, my horses and I, about using common sense and acting self sufficient, but taking MY orders when I am there.
We should stop arguing over which halter is "best", and spend the boring training time teaching our horses to reliably tie. I find that tying each horse to his own "spot" really helps to cement this, as well as graining them at that spot when the weather is nice.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Corporal, I agree... except maybe not the gate opening bit... having had Houdini horses who could open padbolts & work out the chain ring comes off to open farm gates!! Had one that I had to physically lift the gate & put the chain through low, so the weight of the gate was hanging on it, or the b**** would get out! Had one who lived with a bit of a dopey girlfriend, & neighbours would ring in a panic to tell me he was out on the naturestrip. I'd jump in my car & race around there.... to find him in the paddock waiting for me! Happened a few times before the neighbours spied on him after ringing me. Turns out he heard my car coming, so would put himself back where he knew I wanted him! Think that one had a bit of donkey blood in him...


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

Rope halter or web halter, hard tied is hard tied, and horses (IMO) should be trained to accept that properly. I saw a horse set back, snap the clip on the lead and then flip over backward. Fortunately it had rained recently, the ground was soft, and he was unharmed. On the other hand, my own horse spooked and tried to pull back in a rope halter with a tied on lead-ope that was solid tied. Fortunately his training was just as solid and when he hit the end of the rope he stepped back forward, even though he was terrified. My heart was in my throat, but it was over before I could even reach for the quick release on the tie.

Horses not tying properly is a dangerous vice with no easy solution. Do you embark on the potentially dangerous task of retraining them to tie properly, or do you accept the equally dangerous chance of them pulling loose at the worst possible time? Not an easy choice either way.


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## BarrelracingArabian (Mar 31, 2010)

This all reminds me of my coaches new mare. This mare was known to not tie and she told the people she sent her to for some hours that. Well they decided to see if she really didn't I guess. They use normal halter and leads. Well she of course set back and set back hard and flipped over after the clip broke. She is now even worse about tying then she was to begin with. We worked with her and shes getting there but this was also a case of stupid people not using their heads.No halter type would have stopped it.


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## Blue (Sep 4, 2011)

Barrel, the gelding I had that would set back so horribly never did get it right. Took him to two pro trainers and they both said the same thing. We can get him to do it, but never trust him. However, his saving grace was that he ground tied beautifully, so we just went with that. When I sold him, I told the new owners about it and they just ground tie as well. I've spoken with them since and he's really working out for them. They just never tie him.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Unfortunately, once a horse has learned to get loose by setting back, it is almost as hard a habit to break as rearing. I always hated having to try to re-train those horses to tie because you could never let your guard down around them. Most of them would get better....some of them wouldn't.

For folks with a horse that won't tie well, especially if the people are afraid to let it fight it out, hobbles and teaching it to ground tie is a mostly acceptable alternative. Of course, that won't keep a horse completely stationary, but it's better than just tying with twine and having to go catch them 5 or 10 times during the grooming and tacking process.

One of the worst "my horse won't tie" stories was actually on this forum a few years ago. I cannot remember who it was, but she would actually saddle her horse *inside the trailer* because the horse wouldn't safely tie.


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## Dontworrybeappy (Jul 21, 2014)

I have a thing called an equi ping that's pops open with pressure. You apply I to different settings depending on how much pressure until you want it to pop open. I like this because I get to keep my halter :lol:
Equi-Ping | Dover Saddlery


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Dontworrybeappy said:


> I have a thing called an equi ping that's pops open with pressure. You apply I to different settings depending on how much pressure until you want it to pop open.


Sounds like an expensive alternative to baler's twine!:lol: Unlike something like that, which will break easily when the horse sets back, I do find the use of a 'Blocker Tie Ring' or such(I just use abseiler's figure 8's), when there's no appropriate rail or tree branch, in conjunction with a long rope is far more effective, because the horse doesn't get to set back & get loose, but sets back, does NOT come up against hard, unyielding pressure, to cause further panic or potential injury, but any panic can be dissipated by the rope yielding, but the horse doesn't find freedom & gets reeled back in.

**I find this method effective in *training* horses to tie, and as a safety measure I will always use it in a horse trailer & never tie firm there, but BEWARE leaving the horse unattended, until he's well trained & doesn't pull back when spooked. Otherwise you get a 'left brained puller'(I call it that cos of all the PNHers that go on about horses only pulling back if 'right brained' & reactive). I've met many a horse who will stand tied firm all day, but on one of these, if he's been allowed to work out how to get loose, he'll stay tied for only as long as you're watching!:lol:


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## CAP (Jun 18, 2014)

Freak accidents happen, which is what this sounds like, I have always used rope halter and always will until a horse is full grown and there is no chance of them trying to pull.. 
If you once start a horse how to tie and they learn that the halters are easily breakable so they become free they will never learn to quit pulling, if they pull and it never break free they learn they can't get away and to give to pressure then to lean against it.. halters with buckles or ones that are breakaway are only good for horses who will never pull or that are left out in pasture with them, which I am against I'd never leave a halter on a horse unattended in there stall, pasture exc as those freak accidents will happen with those too.. 

Once my babies, are halter broke, and can lead and understand to give to pressure they'll get tied to a metal poll that no matter how hard they pull will not break or pull out of the ground so they don't learn they can break anything to get away, there is nothing around them so they can figure it out in a safe manner, I have yet to have a problem.

But again each to their own, but a full grown horse with a pulling problem because they have learned they can do it is a pain in the butt to deal with and sometimes dangerous for us and other horses, I saw at a show one time people tacking up there horses in one of the barn and one of the horses that just got tied freaked out started pulling and broke the metal pipe that the horses were tied to freeing the "crazy" horse and injuring the one beside it and that horse was wearing a normal buckled halter, so freak accident, or bad training?


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## chinoerika (Jun 10, 2013)

Two things I would like to say about horses that pull back when tied. First is that they make an emergency release, just one touch and your horse is free. One thing we see from time to time is a damaged Epiglottis. A horse can damage it by pulling back too hard. A damaged Epiglottis can lead to life long coughing. Equine Dental Service. Panama Central America.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

The advantage of the quick release snaps and the Equi-pings is that you can release the first one immediately and the second will break the moment too much pressure - the type that could end in disaster - is put on it
Most baler twine used these days is made from nylon and won't break the way the old stuff used too


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## Paintedponies1992 (Nov 17, 2013)

I actually was teaching my 5 month old filly to tie yesterday in a rope halter, but we didn't hard tie her and I stood near and watched her. She took one step back, felt the halter pressure and stepped back up and stood there. But she also knew that when I put pressure on the halter to step up from when she's being led. So imo I wouldn't blame the equipment you're using. PS. Sorry if this doesn't make any sense, i just woke up and I still have more than half my coffee left to drink lol.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

One thing no one has mentioned is a pull back collar/neck collar. I have a couple and if I am teaching a horse to tie or I have any idea it might set back, I put the collar on. It is a wide, flat, strong band that sits over the poll behind the ears, The rope attaches to the collar then threads through the loop of the rope halter (Or webbing halter if you so desire). Then if they pull, the pressure is spread over a larger area, helping prevent injury, plus the rope run through the loop of the halter keeps them facing forward with the head aligned with the neck, helping prevent them twisting around and getting tangled. I broke in a little Arab mare who had big nervousness issues and would snap twine, always tied her hard in a rope halter and neck collar and never had an injury.

I make rope halter myself and I think a lot of the problem are from cheap and nasty halters. Halters that don't fit, cheap rope, not using the proper knots. I use rope specifically made for equine use, UV stabilised, nice and soft. 

If you tie the halter correctly you can always get the knot undone no matter how hard it has been set back on.

I taught my yearling gelding to tie from about a week old (Not solid at first, just wrapped around the pole with me holding the end) in a rope halter. He now ties solid regularly in his rope halter, and knows to give to the pressure. If I take him somewhere new I pop the neck collar on him just in case he does test it.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

jaydee said:


> ...will break the moment too much pressure - the type that could end in disaster - is put on it
> Most baler twine used these days is made from nylon and won't break the way the old stuff used too


Um, what's 'too much pressure'?? Unless we're always in a secure area, where horses breaking loose is safe, and we don't mind that these experiences - of getting loose - teach a horse that's what you do, and no one's ever going to tie these horses in public, near a road, etc, etc, then I think the type that break(period) wouldn't be the type that end in most disasters. But what about the rest of the world? That ride their horses off property for eg.

While as mentioned, tying firm to ANYTHING should be done cautiously, with attention to prior training, and I do believe something THIN & strong across the poll, such as a rope halter, does marginally increase likelihood/severity of injury, I'm with the person who said it's more likely horses are in danger from getting loose, than being tied.

Baler's twine has always been nylon IME & one or 2 strands of it will break quite easily - perhaps you're using multiple thicknesses.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^Wild Spot, I thought I had mentioned using a wide collar. Agree, that's the best thing to start with when first tying a horse firm, as it will reduce the risk of neck injury a bit more. My 'tying collar' is about 6" wide harness leather. Hopefully pretty unbreakable...

I would not hard tie a baby horse though. They're far more fragile, in bone & joint, than many realise & while I *teach* them to tie from an early age, I wouldn't hard tie & risk it until they are about 2yo at least.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Sorry Loosie may have skipped over that!

I have one that is multiple thicknesses of leather and one that is canvas backed with sheepskin. I use the canvas one most often. I've also had success with one made of an old hessian chaff bag and rope.

My boy has never actually set back against the halter… He learnt how to give to the pressure so if he decides to test it he just hits the end of the rope and pops forward.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

IMHO, this is the only "quick release" that actually works the way it is supposed to and never releases a moment before absolutely necessary. I never go anywhere without mine.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

What's the bit on the handle sm? A bottle opener? Most vital piece of kit...


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

That's not my knife, it's a random google image. That is technically called a rescue knife or something similar. The little notch in the handle is for cutting seatbelts safely and there is a little knob on that end for breaking car windows.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

I just love the "like" button. I think I have stated my opinion just by liking other posts!


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

I think I see a couple of those knives in a stocking or two!!!!!! 
And one for me. : ) Hohoho


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

smrobs said:


> The little notch in the handle is for cutting seatbelts safely and there is a little knob on that end for breaking car windows.


Oh boring! A bottle opener for my beer would be a lot more fun!


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

A while back I worked with a horse that would pull back. Blocker ties hadn't been invented. A long rope wound twice around a stout post worked. The horse could pull and there'd be some release. As soon as he started he was made to move laterally, side to side, again and again until he wanted to stand still. Of course this didn't end it, he tried again and I just kept him moving. Moving a horse laterally is moving them in a way their leg muscles aren't designed to move so it can quickly get tiring.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^Yeah, Blocker ties & such were invented for when people don't have an appropriate post/rail/tree branch! ;-)


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## WildAtHeart (Jul 17, 2013)

I see the danger. What about a regular nylon halter?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^Basic difference between a nylon halter & rope for tying solid IMO is that nylon/leather is far more breakable. Strap over the poll is marginally wider/less bitey.


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## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

wild_spot said:


> One thing no one has mentioned is a pull back collar/neck collar. I have a couple and if I am teaching a horse to tie or I have any idea it might set back, I put the collar on. It is a wide, flat, strong band that sits over the poll behind the ears, The rope attaches to the collar then threads through the loop of the rope halter (Or webbing halter if you so desire). Then if they pull, the pressure is spread over a larger area, helping prevent injury, plus the rope run through the loop of the halter keeps them facing forward with the head aligned with the neck, helping prevent them twisting around and getting tangled. I broke in a little Arab mare who had big nervousness issues and would snap twine, always tied her hard in a rope halter and neck collar and never had an injury.
> 
> I make rope halter myself and I think a lot of the problem are from cheap and nasty halters. Halters that don't fit, cheap rope, not using the proper knots. I use rope specifically made for equine use, UV stabilised, nice and soft.
> 
> ...


Can you post a picture? I'm not quite sure I know what you are talking about and I'd love to give this a try.


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## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

I have on horse I only tie in a rope halter. She sets back and we are still working on correcting this. 

Star was tied when a transformer blew over her head and she freak out and her leather halter snapped. After that she became panicked when tying and we've done tons of work to the point she's no longer panicking when she's tied. 

But because of getting free , she got the nasty habit of setting back randomly. Since she's a trail horse that is frequently ridden near roads, I will only tie her in a rope halter to a stout tree. At home where its safe, she has a long rope that is wrapped not tied. I can hold it and give her some freedom. 

So for her own safety I use ropes


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Rainshadow, this is what Lauren is talking about










ETA: This can also be accomplished by tying your heavy lead rope in a bowline knot around their neck. That type of knot will not tighten in any way under pressure and is always easy to get undone, even after being set back on.


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## BreakableRider (Aug 14, 2013)

I have a question for people that have not had success with a tie ring. 

Did you guys increase the setting? If you take the leadrope and loop it back through you can really increase the friction. A horse can still pull back if they are worried but not nearly as easily. This second setting is what I use for smart horses that realize if they just step backwards they can continue to pull the rope through. 

If you then take the end of your leadrope and flip it over the part that goes from halter to tie ring you can further increase friction. At this point, you are almost hard tying a horse. A panicking horse can still pull back a little bit, but it takes a good deal of pressure.


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## bodidley7 (Apr 23, 2014)

Blue said:


> A horse should be properly taught to stand quietly while tied.


its not always a training issue. if the horse spooks itsgonna move. can't expect it to stand quietly


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

BreakableRider said:


> I have a question for people that have not had success with a tie ring.
> 
> Did you guys increase the setting? ...you can further increase friction. At this point, you are almost hard tying a horse.


I suppose with rougher ropes it could be the case that different 'settings' provide enough 'drag', but with my nice yacht ropes, the strongest 'setting' I could manage with one of these is far short of hard tying - my determined horse, & a few others I've worked with, are happy to calmly pull against it. I reckon that 'setting' is about where I should start, with some horses, if they're up to being left unsupervised. I think the major thing is, enough hands-on training, to the stage they're pretty reliable with unyielding pressure, BEFORE you move to unsupervised 'testing'. Another mistake I made when I first tried one of these, which I should have known better about, is that when the lightest 'setting' didn't work, I went to a slightly stronger one, then slightly more again. So instead of nipping it in the bud by preventing it working, I just caused my horse to learn that persevering & putting in a little more effort will get him the results he wants!

BTW, My current boy always waits till your back's turned to do stuff like that too - knows it's not allowed in front of me! I've got to hide & spy to see how he does some stuff! :lol::lol:


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

bodidley7 said:


> its not always a training issue. if the horse spooks itsgonna move. can't expect it to stand quietly


If she's anything like me, standing quietly just means no pawing, pacing, calling, pulling back, etc.

To me, it is perfectly acceptable for the horse to move around as far as the lead rope will let him. Horses, especially young horses, are lookyloos, so they are going to be moving their body to turn back and forth to look at all things going on around them. So long as they are nice and not annoying about it, I don't care.

It would be unfair to expect _every _horse to stand around like some of my oldsters do, in one spot with a leg cocked, asleep, no matter what is going on.

ETA: Oh, and I know I'm *gasp* tied with a bridle rein. Though it's actually not tied, only looped....and he stood there just like that for several hours while I was elsewhere unloading cattle and working on fence. That's how all horses should tie, IMHO.


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## BreakableRider (Aug 14, 2013)

The lead ropes I use are yacht ropes as well but have always provided plenty of friction needed. I hadn't thought about different ropes acting different, hmm.

On the third setting with the rope I use, even an 18 hand Belgian cross was only able to pull back a couple of feet.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Here's a shot of my then not quite yearling colt tied solid in a rope halter with the neck collar on. 

I took him to his first show on the weekend and he stood tied solid to the float like an old pro after a few minutes of fidgeting and looking around. I'm sold on teaching thwm to tie properly from a foal, it has just been so easy.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Here he is as a yearling standing tied to the float at his first ever show.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

smrobs said:


> If she's anything like me, standing quietly just means no pawing, pacing, calling, pulling back, etc.
> 
> To me, it is perfectly acceptable for the horse to move around as far as the lead rope will let him. Horses, especially young horses, are lookyloos, so they are going to be moving their body to turn back and forth to look at all things going on around them. So long as they are nice and not annoying about it, I don't care.
> 
> ...



you might get forum throttled for tying with that bridle rein. 
Dobie is so cute.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

wild_spot said:


> Here's a shot of my then not quite yearling colt tied solid in a rope halter with the neck collar on.
> 
> I took him to his first show on the weekend and he stood tied solid to the float like an old pro after a few minutes of fidgeting and looking around. I'm sold on teaching thwm to tie properly from a foal, it has just been so easy.



what is the neck collar? did I miss your explanation?


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

I mentioned it in an earlier post. Neck collar or pull back collar. Spreads the load if they set back so they don't injure their poll, and having the rope running through the halter keeps their head aligned with their neck/the rope further avoiding injury. 

I only use it now if I think there might be a chance of him pulling back, like being left on his own, but used it every time when he was learning to tie.


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

Made the mistake once in thinking a 10yr old gelding was taught to stand tied. I don't remember if he was wearing a rope halter or a nylon halter (he had both types), what I do remember though was him freaking out as soon as he felt tension on the rope and pulled back as hard as he could, snapping the tied lead line in half.
From that day on, I have always made sure that whatever horse I tie knows how to tie properly, and that when I tie the rope I tie it in such away that it'll come undone with enough force


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## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

wild_spot said:


> I mentioned it in an earlier post. Neck collar or pull back collar. Spreads the load if they set back so they don't injure their poll, and having the rope running through the halter keeps their head aligned with their neck/the rope further avoiding injury.
> 
> I only use it now if I think there might be a chance of him pulling back, like being left on his own, but used it every time when he was learning to tie.


IYO would this work for a horse with a habit of setting back? She knows to give to pressure, but she still does it and thrashes for about 15 seconds, then calmly steps forward and relieves the pressure and stands like nothing happened.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

It won't stop her from setting back and won't do anything to change the habit, but it will help prevent injury when she does it, and it won't let her get free.


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## hyperkalemic4 (Dec 8, 2014)

If you do get a rope halter make sure it has a small nose band. I was trimming a horse once and he was being a real stinker, I swatted him on the hinder with the rasp and he reared back came forward with his feet and ran a hoof through the noseband and went down. I had knife, cut him loose when he stood up he was a perfect gentleman and let me finish putting the shoes on.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

^^Yeah, that's another thing I never understood. I guess I just don't see how anyone can consider it safe/effective to have a halter hanging off the horse's face like this

(my own horse/halter, demonstrating what I'm talking about, but I have seen horses tied and left alone with halters on this loose)


Not only does it pose a risk of them pulling it off their nose and ending up tied with nothing but what's around their neck, but when it's that loose, if you pull on it at all, the throatlatch will slide down and get "trapped" under their jaw. When that happens, there is absolutely no release of that pressure until you actually take your hand and move the halter back where it's supposed to be. To leave it like this is leaving constant pressure on the jowls and the poll


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## Blue (Sep 4, 2011)

Yup. Makes me crazy when I see that. I mentioned it to someone one time and they just said it was how they always did it and their horse was well behaved.:shock:


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

My pet peeve is when people tie rope halters incorrectly. There IS a correct way, because if you tie it any other way it can/will cinch down and be darn near or completely impossible to loosen if a horse has pulled back in it. 

Unfortunately any tack can be fitted and used incorrectly. We talk about poorly fitting saddles mostly, but halters can fail to fit properly and have negative consequences as well... perhaps we're fortunate that it doesn't happen more often. I know a horse that got a hoof through a nylon web halter the same way that HyperK says happened with the rope halter. Unfortunately he was unsupervised in pasture. It took several days before the vet was sure he'd survive the damage. 

Horses. To steal a quote, if they're not busy finding ways to kill you, they're discovering new ways to kill themselves.


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## hyperkalemic4 (Dec 8, 2014)

I would really like to tie a knot that if a 12 hundred lb. horse hangs back on it that it would undo with a jerk! I have tried many knots and the only way I know to make sure they can be undone easily is to tie a small piece of rope in the knot or a little chunk of stick, something you can get out and then untie the knot. I like rope halters and use them all the time.


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## hyperkalemic4 (Dec 8, 2014)

The rope halters that are low on the nose are great for controlling those horses that are head strong and you need to have leverage to bring the head in. I see dudes trying to control hanger outers with a halter nose band high on the head and they cannot out pull a head strong horse with the halter high especially if it is a web halter.


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## hyperkalemic4 (Dec 8, 2014)

My husband was holding a pony while I was trimming her, she pulled back he turned loose and she went over backwards, her head hit the cement and she died right there. I would much rather have seen her fight the rope and not have come undone.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Re knots that don't 'lock', it also makes a huge difference what rope you use IME. For eg. twisted rope, cotton, sisal, etc all don't seem to matter whether you tie them correctly, they WILL often still be very difficult to undo if pulled tight. If you use nylon yacht braid however, I've found that regardless how tight(I've used this knot to tow a car too!) you can still 'break the back' of the knot if it's tied the right way(around the loop, not above it).

Hyper, it sounds like that accident with your husband was just that - a bit of a fluke accident. I just don't understand how you think it was anything to do with that the horse being held. As has been discussed here, it is horses being tied firm & pulling back/breaking away that is a not uncommon cause of injury. To be worried about holding a horse in hand... begs the question, how do you deal with horses on the ground then?? And what terrible risk has everyone(throughout history) routinely been putting their horses in?? :lol:


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

We use nylon halters and 5/8 or 3/4 inch nylon lead-ropes. We tie horses with a bowline knot where the last part of it is doubled. That way it can always be jerked loose if needed. 

A bowline knot can ALWAYS be undone. The bottom loop never tightens. We have a 1 inch 3-strand twisted nylon rope, 20 feet long, that I braided back a loop in one end and burned the other end so it would not unravel. We have towed trucks with it that weighed 20,000# + and could untie the knot in the one end when it needed to be untied. It is lighter weight and I would rather handle it than a chain. 

Everyone on the ranch keeps a sharp knife in their pocket and there is one in the tack-room. But, all of our horses tie correctly, so I cannot remember the last time I had to cut a rope.

I do recall getting in a mare to train before we quit training for the public. She was a terrible puller but we did get her broke to tie right. She had broken a halter and rolled up-side-down and broke her tail. She held it crooked and could not lift it so she defecated in it and peed in it. She was the nastiest mess I had seen in a long time. You had to keep her tail braided all of the time and it would still get nasty. She never rode right and our Vet thought it was because her tail was crooked. He said a horse's tail acted a lot like a rudder and hers did not work.


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## CAP (Jun 18, 2014)

Not really on topic but I really hate when people tie up their horses, tack up and leave the lead and halter still tied to the wall in a active alley way. When I was working at a training/boarding facility we saw a few accidents and a couple potential accidents, despite our efforts in asking people not to do it because of the risks.


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## LoveMyToby (Mar 7, 2011)

*I tie in a rope halter...*

I've had my mare for 2 months and have already had a huge vet bill. I had her tied to a solid fence post at my neighbors house, and she was dancing around. I must've forgotten my horse fence after having a trusty dusty gelding. She was riled up by the stallion in the barn that was calling to her, sat down on the rope halter, jumped forward and put her leg through the fence. I say it's not related to what kind of halter. Teach your horse to tie. We now work on it everyday.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Hope your horse heals up okay, LoveMyToby.


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## LoveMyToby (Mar 7, 2011)

Thanks smrobs. I meant to say I forgot my horse sense ...not fence. She's doing fine. Been doing a lot of work with ground control and she's really responded. Gone from pushy bossy mare to a very pleasant girl. I get to start pulling staples tomorrow. Pulled sutures the other day. Amazing how humbling these horses are...really teach you about yourself!


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## LoveMyToby (Mar 7, 2011)

Meet Mia


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Glad to hear she's doing better. Looks like that was a nasty wound when it happened. Not even going to have a scar though .


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Oh, that's so lucky they were able to successfully sew that one up! I hate it when horses get wounds that can't be stitched!


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