# PAint Stud Confo



## SunnyDraco

Without going into great detail, the stallion is very short coupled. Not my cup of tea personally. Love your mare though, she could make a very lovely baby with one of WSarabians' talented handsome studmuffins... Not very helpful, am I?


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## JCnGrace

Nothing shouting out at me but for your mare I think I would pick a stallion with more bone.


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## Kyro

I like your mare and the stallion. What are your plans for the baby? If it's not gonna be a big sport career, then why not, you can definitely get a decent horse out of this match. Maybe just not exactly high class showjumping/dressage material. 
If you want to get a really awesome performer, I'd pick a slightly different stallion though. One that has a bit of height and a strong, short back. Another arabian or warmblood perhaps. 
Just my two cents.


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## KigerQueen

Wellllll i have been eyeballing this stud muffin XD! (look at pics of stud)

I would like something i COULD show. a foal out of my mare and the paint could be registered either the buckskin registry or the Pinto registry. 
i want something i can register somewhere and compete on. is it going to be the next olympic jumper? no. Is it going to be the next #1 reiner/cowhorse/cutter in the us? no. could i show it at scottsdale (assuming i go arabian) maybe. could i be competitive? maybe. i want something i can work with from day 1 and actually do SOMETHING will besides ride the same trails until my horse and i are sick lol!.

(if i mod could maybe change the name of the thread to "Stallions for Negra (maybe)" that would be fantastic 

I included two glamour shots of Negra because i could not help it lol!


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## KigerQueen

Im also going to post these guys both black arabian studs (both just happen to be black lol, not looking for color). the only reason im considering arizona studs is to cut AI costs. was reading a thread on here on how the AI cost just started stacking up and it was ridiculous. Sooo if i can cut out THAT extra cost (and use that money on the mare and foal) that would be more practical. BUUUUTTTT i really LOVE WSArabians studs (Mr Pink Floyd the most).










Black Arabian Stallion at Stud











at stud arabian black horse


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## greentree

You really need to go Arabian...or you will just have a grade horse...


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## evilamc

I know you said not to lecture but with your mare being older and her lameness issues will it really be fair to breed her? You said it your other thread she got gimpy just from riding down the driveway....how do you think she'll feel carrying around the extra weight of a foal?

But other than that...I think I agree with greentree on sticking with Arabian.


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## greentree

If you want to breed, you need to be shopping for a mare....one who is the proper breeding age, perhaps with a breeding history, and papers, which gives you options. But first, a proper boarding facility or farm, with things like SECURE fences, and shelters, and places for a mare and foal to RUN. 
When breeding, there is the need to be quite close (both mentally and physically)to a GOOD vet....especially for a novice breeder. 
Sorry...


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## DraftyAiresMum

The problem is that Arabs, unless they're the prancy, seahorse-y show horses, aren't worth the hay you feed them out here because there's so dang many of them. Especially where Kiger is. You can find well-trained, well-bred Arabs that didn't make the show ring cut for sale on Craigslist for $500-1000. Heck, I've seen nice Arabs given away for free (my friend got her Bask-bred endurance gelding for free and another friend got a yearling filly who didn't make the show ring cut, but it bred to the hilt, for free as well). 

A half Arab, especially one with some color, is more marketable, oddly enough. Heck, with the right training, I've seen grade horses sell for more than registered purebred Arabs.

I'm curious how you think the resulting foal from the cross to the paint stud would be grade, greentree? Wouldn't it be registerable as part-Arab? My old gelding was Arab/NSH (so 3/4 Arab) and was registered as a part-bred Arab.

All that being said, I agree 10000% with evilamc. Breeding Negra wouldn't be fair to her.

I will say, though, that I have looked at that stud more than once to put to my best friend's QH mare. He's got the right build to offset Tink's faults and the right breeding to make for one heck of an all-around horse when paired with her. Thought about doing a breeding lease on her to help my friend out with feed costs and then I get to keep the foal at the end of it. Out of all the AQHA and APHA studs on Craigslist, he's my favorite, his color aside.


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## SunnyDraco

DraftyAiresMum said:


> I'm curious how you think the resulting foal from the cross to the paint stud would be grade, greentree? Wouldn't it be registerable as part-Arab? My old gelding was Arab/NSH (so 3/4 Arab) and was registered as a part-bred Arab


Because the lovely gal has no papers to prove she is purebred, that is why. AHA rules state that at least one parent must be a purebred registered arabian for the foal to be registered half Arab. Even if you bred two horses that were 3/4 arabian, the foal couldn't be registered as half arabian as neither parent was a purebred. 

The only registries available if she bred to the paint stallion would be color registries. If the mare isn't homozygous for black, 50% chance palomino and 50% chance buckskin/brownskin. Then the 50% chance that the stallion will also throw tobiano to qualify for PtHA registry.


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## DraftyAiresMum

SunnyDraco said:


> Because the lovely gal has no papers to prove she is purebred, that is why. AHA rules state that at least one parent must be a purebred registered arabian for the foal to be registered half Arab. Even if you bred two horses that were 3/4 arabian, the foal couldn't be registered as half arabian as neither parent was a purebred.
> 
> The only registries available if she bred to the paint stallion would be color registries. If the mare isn't homozygous for black, 50% chance palomino and 50% chance buckskin/brownskin. Then the 50% chance that the stallion will also throw tobiano to qualify for PtHA registry.


Ah! Somehow I thought Kiger had said Negra was registered. lol I knew how the registry worked, just thought that Negra was registered. :icon_rolleyes:


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## SunnyDraco

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Ah! Somehow I thought Kiger had said Negra was registered. lol I knew how the registry worked, just thought that Negra was registered. :icon_rolleyes:


It was her lack of registration which caused the biggest hesitation on ever breeding her... Just look through Pink Floyd's thread to see the slow movement between not breeding Negra and becoming more open to the idea about maybe breeding. 

I say, if you are going to breed your mare (who is in good health and good conformation with a good temperament) once for yourself, breed her to the best stallion you can afford that compliments your mare and that you personally love ;-)


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## DraftyAiresMum

SunnyDraco said:


> It was her lack of registration which caused the biggest hesitation on ever breeding her... Just look through Pink Floyd's thread to see the slow movement between not breeding Negra and becoming more open to the idea about maybe breeding.
> 
> I say, if you are going to breed your mare (who is in good health and good conformation with a good temperament) once for yourself, breed her to the best stallion you can afford that compliments your mare and that you personally love ;-)


Gotcha.

And yeah, I agree with the second part. That's why I was looking at the APHA stud for my best friend's mare. She doesn't have the best confo (long, but not weak, back, sickle hocks, buck knees), but she's got great health and a beautiful temperament. She's got good breeding that's desirable in our area (this is her grandsire: Jon and Marywade Gilbert Welcome You to HorseBreakers Unlimited, LLC Gone but not Forgotten - Scottish Bart He's a big deal around here...even non-horse people know who he is).


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## greentree

DA, I am glad you like him.....not one of those foals have legs that are acceptable to me. The rears run from too straight to sickle hocked, and they all toed out in the front, just as he does. 

It is not wise to think of traits as offsetting faults when breeding. Long back + short back does not = correct back. Toeing in+ toeing out does not =straight. 
You can look for mares that have the same faults and see IF he corrects them, but that is not a good bet either.


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## LoriF

KigerQueen said:


> Im also going to post these guys both black arabian studs (both just happen to be black lol, not looking for color). the only reason im considering arizona studs is to cut AI costs. was reading a thread on here on how the AI cost just started stacking up and it was ridiculous. Sooo if i can cut out THAT extra cost (and use that money on the mare and foal) that would be more practical. BUUUUTTTT i really LOVE WSArabians studs (Mr Pink Floyd the most).
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> Black Arabian Stallion at Stud
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> at stud arabian black horse



I like both of those black boys even though the top one is a little fat. 

If you are referring to my thread. The real cost was not necessarily the collection and shipping. Especially if I only had to do it once. The real cost was the vet coming out many times over a two month period with collection and shipping several times. Also being charged for emergency weekend visits. If it doesn't take the first time I think it can get pricey either way. It seems to me, that unless you have everything right there at your fingertips, it gets expensive no matter what you do. 
The funny thing was that I kept telling the vet that this mare would probably want to build a bigger follicle before ovulating than what he was used to dealing with and he thought that I just thought that my mare was special. I wanted to choke him when he said that. lol. 

I guess you have to figure out what is doable for you.


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## Yogiwick

I would 100% go purebred.

Drafty I believe Negra is not registered, so any registration would need to be part bred through the sire or based on color.

Kiger I get you are looking, and it's fun to do sometimes but I am shocked that is sounds like you are even considering actually doing it. Not going to start on the "all the horses" nor am I even going to critique your (essentially grade) mare or comment on the "great color registries". But she has MAJOR UNRESOLVED physical issues.. and you want to breed her? If she is "gimpy" on her own and can't carry your weight for more than a minute how is she supposed to carry a foal for 11 months??? Not to mention your constant financial struggles and inability to get Negra's issues fully resolved due to your own financial issues..

And she's in her 20's and a maiden correct? I can't see ANYONE advising you that it's a good idea. I mentioned jokingly to our vet breeding our in the time teens 100% sound and had had several foals Icelandic and she completely shut me down. You have an unsound, I might even say crippled horse (she sounds barely pasture sound at times) that can't carry weight and that is "senior" and hasn't been bred before... For the HORSES sake don't breed her. Nothing more to say :/, hope it really is just for fun.


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## KigerQueen

As i said in my original post. This is IF she passes a vet check. She is getting her legs looked at by a good clinic with an untrasound. This is an idea i have been playing with for a while. I have had abcuple of good and top az arabian breders say i should breed her. If i breed to an arabian it would be registerd as a half arabian. The paint would have been registers pinto or buckskin. That being said im thinking arabian.


Dont give me the lecture. I have been giveing it for 4 years givejng that lecture and saying i would not breed her. The only way i would breed her is if the vet says it would be ok and the lameness is nothing that could be a genetic fault. As for her limping it might be a wight thing. Extra weight from foaling would be 150lbs. I weight 175lbs. Quite a bit more than she would have. 
As for age she is not a maiden. She had at least 5 foals before i got her. 

I dont want to go mare shopping. I may look at a breeding lease (i know someone with a huckleberry bey granddaughter that produces some nice park horses). And that is still something i would look at. But when you have 5 good breeders say " that is a very nice mare! Have you thought about breeding her for a nice half arabian?" you start thinking more and more of it.


Again please note thisnis ONLY if i can find out what the lameness is and IF THE BREEDING SPECIALIST VET says she is ok to breed.


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## KigerQueen

Also this is if i can get my fianacial issues settled and that is looking very likely but IF i look at breeding her it would not be for at least a year. I am aware what things i need inplace before i do this. I am not stupid. I am not new to foals or breeding ethier. And i am aware of the strugles i have delt with over the last 5 years with her. This is mostly a hypathetical thred. I may "pick" a stud but never breed her. Or things might line up and it happens. If it dose not happen then all well. This is an not a " i will breed my mare reguardless of what the vet says" thing. Vet says no then i have my answer.


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## greentree

To quote my favorite vet(in reference to an 18 yo maiden mare that my friend wanted to breed to my stallion)... "It's a DESERT in there!!)


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## KigerQueen

Lol! I would honestly laugh if the vet said that!

I am also looking at breeders as well. I kinda want to go stock horse but i have been turned off by the legs of most qhs and paints. I like the foals out of shining c grulla horses but at rhe same time im leary of color breeders. That being said the horses are reining bred and proformance bred. But if im goingnto spend 2 to 4k on a horse it better be well bred and be able to hold up.

I know most arabians out here are not of the best confo andnthe age im looking at tneds to be over priced. 30K as a wenling 1k as a 4 year old wi r h questonable training.


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## CaliforniaDreaming

Nothing wrong with looking, dreaming and scheming. They say dreams are free, but making dreams happen, eh well, maybe not so much. 

Been many a time, I've looked at a nice stallion and gone "Oooh, I have a mare!"

Course, it's been almost 5 years since I brought her home, and almost 9 years since I first leased her to begin with (no clue what might've been her story in the 4 years between) so that's at least a decade since her last alleged foal (the guy I leased her from said she'd had two foals to though I don't know if that happened before they got her so it might be even longer) so it's probably a scene right outta Mad Max (think toxic wasteland) in her you-know-what and getting her all cleaned out would probably set me back a pretty penny. 

Besides, she's a grade Morgan/QH cross who although I love her dearly, has her own share of conformational and soundness issues that I'd hesitate to breed her anyway even if she was papered. Add in my own financial share of ups and downs, and my future desires in a horse (my gelding's sold me on the Haflinger breed, I want my next horse to be a Haffie to go with the one I've already got) and it just doesn't make sense for me to breed my mare. I only have her because she's special to me and because of what she meant to me while I was leasing her which is why I got her back when I could. 

Doesn't stop me from thinking what if though. Although I think if money were no object, I'd want a gold rated Haffie mare to breed to a gold rated stallion.


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## Yogiwick

KigerQueen said:


> As i said in my original post. This is IF she passes a vet check. She is getting her legs looked at by a good clinic with an untrasound. This is an idea i have been playing with for a while. I have had abcuple of good and top az arabian breders say i should breed her. If i breed to an arabian it would be registerd as a half arabian. The paint would have been registers pinto or buckskin. That being said im thinking arabian.
> 
> 
> Dont give me the lecture. I have been giveing it for 4 years givejng that lecture and saying i would not breed her. The only way i would breed her is if the vet says it would be ok and the lameness is nothing that could be a genetic fault. As for her limping it might be a wight thing. Extra weight from foaling would be 150lbs. I weight 175lbs. Quite a bit more than she would have.
> As for age she is not a maiden. She had at least 5 foals before i got her.
> 
> I dont want to go mare shopping. I may look at a breeding lease (i know someone with a huckleberry bey granddaughter that produces some nice park horses). And that is still something i would look at. But when you have 5 good breeders say " that is a very nice mare! Have you thought about breeding her for a nice half arabian?" you start thinking more and more of it.
> 
> 
> Again please note thisnis ONLY if i can find out what the lameness is and IF THE BREEDING SPECIALIST VET says she is ok to breed.


Does it matter what the vet says when you know that she is unsound? The breeders doesn't mean anything to me, who knows how serious they were and IF they were really good breeders then it's still different as they would have the knowledge and facilities to deal with something like this. And was this before or after she's been lame? Color registries really don't mean diddly squat. Valid point that there may be plenty of Arabs in your area but that doesn't mean you shouldn't breed for a half Arab, otherwise the horse is grade.

Does it matter if her lameness is genetic? There is a term "breeding sound" it means the horse may not be 100% sound but is manageable and breeding will have no effect on the horses soundness. This mare is clearly not breeding sound. So what if it's not genetic?

Why don't you put a 150 lb person on her and see if she doesn't act exactly the same as she would for you. It's good that she's not a maiden, it does count for something, it doesn't change the fact that she is a senior.

I wouldn't want to waste the money on the breeding specialist. Things aren't so black and white either, this mare obviously has issues beyond just her feet.

Are you breeding for you? Sounds like you just want to breed and have your own mare so think you should do that as opposed to looking for another horse.

It's your horse and your money, I'm not trying to lecture you, just make sure you are making the decision for your mare's sake and not yours. It's not fair as she's the one who has to deal with it and if she ends up crippled for 4 months you can't just change your mind at that point. I've seen that, on an experienced, and breeding sound, broodmare who ended up carrying a VERY big foal that was too much and pushed her over the "breeding sound" edge. This was with the best of care and owned by an experienced professional breeder and a vet. It still wasn't pretty..

Like I said, I'm not faulting you for daydreaming and just playing around for fun. I've definitely looked at a horse and said "oh I hope he's a stallion so I can breed to him!" lol. I'm just concerned about anything beyond that.


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## KigerQueen

Again IF THE VET SAYS SHE IS BREEDING SOUND! The kids can ride her no problem. And this is ONLY ONCE I HAVE FIGURED OUT WHY SHE IS LAME! Lets please back away fromnthe lecture please. I am well awarebthe risks. I have been looking out for a foal already on the ground. Half arabians can show and there are shows for them. I would like to be able to show. I have a trainer who is also a good friend of mine and she loves my mare. I know it wont be cheep. I have watched too many people buy noce bred trained horses over the years that end up with extream issues. All needed to spend alot of money on retraining the horses they spend 3k to 7k on. The only people i have seen have any good luck with their horses in training health and bahavior are ones they have raised themselves. I can count over 10 horses off the top of my head who fall into that category.

Hence why i would look at breeding. The arabs out here are mostly halter lines and would not hold up to hard use. The paints and qhs are sad. That stud i posted looks fantastic. Most have finer bone and look like they are half halter horse.


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## SunnyDraco

greentree said:


> To quote my favorite vet(in reference to an 18 yo maiden mare that my friend wanted to breed to my stallion)... "It's a DESERT in there!!)


Which varies from one mare to the next. Some maiden mares have issues conceiving at 12 years old and some maiden mares get pregnant easily at 18+ years old. 

As for Negra, if she had 5 foals in the past, she may or may not still be fertile in her later years. My sister will be starting foal watch in two months for her 22 year old mare having a second (and last) foal. First foal was 4 years ago.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KigerQueen

I am also looking at haveing a horse for the next 15 years that i may not be able to do anything with. That may be breeding sound and might be able to give me a horse i could do something with from the get go. It was a thought. If the vet tells me ahe is hardly sound to be in the pasture i will put her down as its not fair to her to keep suffering.


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## Yogiwick

Kiger, again, not trying to lecture you. I apologize if I came off that way, you don't need to be defensive.


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## KigerQueen

Sorry if my feathers are ruffled. Im curently sorounded by people who question and push back at every idea i have and everything i say. Nearly got in a hugh fight with my sil and my fiance over getting untrasounds on my mares legs. They dontnthink she is worth the vet bills. That im spending too much money on a horse where i could spend that money elcewere (like what i dont know). From all sides people keep telling me what i should and should not do with my mare all conterdicting each other. Its kinda old. Im also dealing with people who think arabs are not even worth bullets for target practus so yeah.


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## Wallaby

One thing I will caution you about is, if this all comes to pass [and, for the record, I agree with the majority of the other posters], and you choose to breed to a stock horse stallion [QH/Paint/Appy/etc] PLEASE make sure they have had a 5-panel test _and_ are 100% negative for all 5.
Arabians also have genetic diseases that your mare, and any prospective stallion should be tested for.



My gelding is the product of a QH/Arab "marriage" and it's turned out that he has PSSM - passed down through his QH side, because his QH parent wasn't properly tested [or because someone didn't understand how PSSM is inherited]. I don't even know if he'll be rideable after I get him all straightened out internally. I hope so, but I won't know for some time.
My gelding is a wonderful, wonderful, horse and I'm so glad I have him, but the idea that his pain could have been eliminated via a simple genetic test kills me.

Possibly the worst part is seeing how _alive_ he is after just 3 days of proper management. He's been in pain for so long and no one knew, he's been passed from home to home because he's "grumpy" and "slow." 
Now, at 11 years old, he's waking up to how good life could be and he is not grumpy, and he is NOT slow.


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## churumbeque

LoriF said:


> I like both of those black boys even though the top one is a little fat.
> 
> If you are referring to my thread. The real cost was not necessarily the collection and shipping. Especially if I only had to do it once. The real cost was the vet coming out many times over a two month period with collection and shipping several times. Also being charged for emergency weekend visits. If it doesn't take the first time I think it can get pricey either way. It seems to me, that unless you have everything right there at your fingertips, it gets expensive no matter what you do.
> The funny thing was that I kept telling the vet that this mare would probably want to build a bigger follicle before ovulating than what he was used to dealing with and he thought that I just thought that my mare was special. I wanted to choke him when he said that. lol.
> 
> I guess you have to figure out what is doable for you.


AI has come along way in the last 10 years. Find a reproductive vet then you won't be collecting several times. Pretty much can get them pregnant in one collection.


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## LoriF

KigerQueen said:


> Sorry if my feathers are ruffled. Im curently sorounded by people who question and push back at every idea i have and everything i say. Nearly got in a hugh fight with my sil and my fiance over getting untrasounds on my mares legs. They dontnthink she is worth the vet bills. That im spending too much money on a horse where i could spend that money elcewere (like what i dont know). From all sides people keep telling me what i should and should not do with my mare all conterdicting each other. Its kinda old. Im also dealing with people who think arabs are not even worth bullets for target practus so yeah.


Just tell EVERYBODY that you don't do shoulds. That's what I do when I start hearing all the stuff I should or shouldn't be doing.


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## LoriF

churumbeque said:


> AI has come along way in the last 10 years. Find a reproductive vet then you won't be collecting several times. Pretty much can get them pregnant in one collection.


I agree


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## KigerQueen

Lol yes negitive testing reguardless of breed lol. And she would be tested as well.

Check out Durango equine in arizona. Thats who i will be useing


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## KigerQueen

LoriF said:


> Just tell EVERYBODY that you don't do shoulds. That's what I do when I start hearing all the stuff I should or shouldn't be doing.


Yes! The last time i listened to anyone i know (but i listened to peolle on here) was when my mare whent lame. I listened tonpeople with over 30 years of horse experience. They kept tellimg me her limping was nothing. Stall rest. Padded shoes for a week, dmso, work her, bute for a week and the list gose on. I feel like if i called the vet the first week instead of 2 months later the negra navicular thred would not exist.


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## Yogiwick

Wallaby said:


> One thing I will caution you about is, if this all comes to pass [and, for the record, I agree with the majority of the other posters], and you choose to breed to a stock horse stallion [QH/Paint/Appy/etc] PLEASE make sure they have had a 5-panel test _and_ are 100% negative for all 5.
> Arabians also have genetic diseases that your mare, and any prospective stallion should be tested for.
> 
> 
> 
> My gelding is the product of a QH/Arab "marriage" and it's turned out that he has PSSM - passed down through his QH side, because his QH parent wasn't properly tested [or because someone didn't understand how PSSM is inherited]. I don't even know if he'll be rideable after I get him all straightened out internally. I hope so, but I won't know for some time.
> My gelding is a wonderful, wonderful, horse and I'm so glad I have him, but the idea that his pain could have been eliminated via a simple genetic test kills me.
> 
> Possibly the worst part is seeing how _alive_ he is after just 3 days of proper management. He's been in pain for so long and no one knew, he's been passed from home to home because he's "grumpy" and "slow."
> Now, at 11 years old, he's waking up to how good life could be and he is not grumpy, and he is NOT slow.


I didn't realize your horse had PSSM 

I will say while obviously important it is not necessarily a requirement. For example LWO does not matter as long as the other horse doesn't have it etc. As long as Kiger does thorough research to determine exactly which problems work both ways *some* things are ok and can be worked around.


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## KigerQueen

yep. she will be getting the arabian test done first IF the vet says it can be in the cards for her. and i will test her for OWL as it can hide on solid pattern horses. Im still keeping an eye on foals on the ground but im finding alot of halter types that as cute as they are, wont do what i want. i like both english and western and hard trail riding (like in the mountains and hard trails using all 3 gears). Some of the halter horses i see i just dont see doing what i would want.


Anyway back to stud eye candy.

idk what it is about this guy. in one pic i kinda like him and the other i dont (unless someone can see something i dont he is not in the running at all)
https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/grd/5387449405.html

I like this guy too he is more of a using type. something that can show western and still have a refined look.


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## KigerQueen

this guy right here is what im going for! he is refined but not too light. he has just enough mass to be a using western horse but would not get laughed out of a halter ring.

Fable Perseus, Arabian Stallion for Sale, Fable Arabians, Tucson, Arizona


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## lostastirrup

Doesnt your mare have navicular? And isnt Navicular genetic... I could be wrong but that would definetly frighten me when breeding.


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## KigerQueen

there is some questioning on whether its Navicular at all and some navicular is not genetic but caused by something that happened to the horse. it could also be caused from things like horse tripping (we believe she was used for horse tripping before i got her too). genetic navicular hits younger too. most that inherit it get it before they turn 8 years old (to my knowledge anyway). my mare was diagnosed at 18-19. she is now 19-20 and her lameness and xrays dont lineup with navicular. the only thing she had was heel pain and pain when flexed a certain way. BUT there is a thread that talks about that called Negra's Navicular. 

also another reason for vet check. they are a repo specializing facility and would know if this is something potentially something the foal could get. im thinking its more from 3 years of NO hoof care, being used for tripping and falling behind on proper trimming after my farrier/ father in law broke his ankle.


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## Dehda01

Don't forget about testing her for SCID/CA/LFS. They are very real diseases, and I have had mare test as carriers I was not expecting to! 

Honestly, and I say this loving Arabs and having bred them for many years, it is cheaper to buy a baby the baby you want 100% on the ground than it is to foal it out. I have lost 1000s of dollars breeding live cover, MUCH MORE THAN THAT AI. And still not had a live foal... (By birth or weaning time)Or mare at the end of the process. I never made money selling a foal, certainly never a profit once they were broke by 4.


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## KigerQueen

I do agree with that. however the arabians in my area are mostly halter type and by halter type i mean this 

























very much not the type i want unless i ONLY want to show western pleasure or halter/liberty

and they want at upwards to 10-30k for the weenlings. IF i could find a performance bred one its same price range. i dont want the next scottsdale champion. i want something i can show at open shows and low level shows. something i can learn to show with. to see if i truly like showing before i brake the bank with an expensive show horse. i also want something i can ride all over, do endurance with if i want. again nothing like the tevis cup (i would not make it lol!) but maybe a 20 mile ride.

i am aware i may spend upwards of 5k on this endeavor and may not get the foal i want or lose foal, my mare or both. I just want to breed a horse just once, and keep the foal. i know things happen and i may have to sell it hence why im looking for something i could register. 


also i did state i am looking at foals on the ground. if i find one before i breed her (IF i breed her at all) then i will go that route.


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## KigerQueen

I could go for something like this.

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/grd/5361967627.html
(kinda sounds too good to be true)
but i know this horse will go from a 2k horse to 5-7k horse with training. every person i have met out here who bought a "good horse" or a good trail horse ended up putting alot of training into it to make it mostly rideable. might be worth it. i would have to see honestly. when i get to that spot it my life (looking at next year or two if i buy on the ground) i may buy a foal or even an adult horse. but i would rather something i work with from day one and go from there.


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## CaliforniaDreaming

What about expanding your search parameters to outside your immediate area? And consider an in-utero purchase? I'd probably do that myself in the future, if I find a Haflinger breeder that I'd want to go to. 

I'd much rather let someone else absorb the risk of breeding. Every time I think it might be nice for my mare to have a foal (putting aside all the rational logic of why she shouldn't) I worry about the risk of breeding. And then the last few days have really hit hard, with the news that Storm Flag Flying died from foaling complications (at age 16, her 7th foal) on Friday and Somali Lemonade died yesterday along with her foal (age 6, first foal -- to Frankel of all horses) and I just go nope. It's just that gamble, ya know, like these guys with millions of dollars have this sort of thing happen, what chance does po'dunk lil ole me have. 

Course, that's not to say I won't ever breed, since there's always a chance a really good mare is in my future, just not my lil retiree mare with her questionable soundness issues.


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## KigerQueen

i won't look for horses on the ground that are not foals outside my area. the retraining i will have to put in with shipping is not worth it. 

Now can we stay on track? dont mean to sound rude but i have been given the speech on why not to breed. i have given the same speech multiple times. i am well aware of the risks and know i may lose my mare. i know my options on buying and the costs involved. if i breed her i would move her here
Boarding/Breeding Services


i would like to know what lines/breeding i need to stay away from with my mare and what i should pick to compliment her. 

there is a 90% chance that i will NOT BREED HER. BUT if life lines up and the planets aline and crap the i may breed her (that would be if life lines up enough for that 10% chance of me breeding her happens).


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## LoriF

What I did was research a lot of stallions, took a look at their offspring and took a look at the mares of their offspring. That way I could get a good idea of what they produced and why. I spent about three years looking, asking questions and basically annoying everyone before I made my decision on who to breed my mare to.


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## KigerQueen

Kinda what im trying to do lol! i dont know too many arabian people anymore. i may still go the lease a acquaintance's mare. the mare is normally leased out and bred to a saddle bred to create NSH. Either way I still need to compile a list of nice studs that i can then whittle down. top of the list is Pink Floyd so far lol! Perseus is a close second.


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## SunnyDraco

KigerQueen said:


> Kinda what im trying to do lol! i dont know too many arabian people anymore. i may still go the lease a acquaintance's mare. the mare is normally leased out and bred to a saddle bred to create NSH. Either way I still need to compile a list of nice studs that i can then whittle down. top of the list is Pink Floyd so far lol! Perseus is a close second.


If you want to consider a weanling on the ground in the future... I know of a nice potential for what you are looking for but would have the expense of shipping but time to plan for that as the baby will not be sold at top dollar as the focus is to sell as a weanling to a good home. My mom's personal hobby to breed very lightly while standing her stud to the public. She just bought a new mare/girlfriend last fall (I found her as I knew that my mom's current mare is ready for retirement). She is going to be bred this spring for a 2017 foal, and bred back again for a 2018 foal. Not sure if she will be given 2019 off before being bred again as that depends on how she does physically nursing and pregnant in summer/fall 2017...

Anyways, the mare is a straight Egyptian purebred registered mare, tested homozygous black. First is an older picture of her from her sale ad showing her summer coat. She has a very sweet temperament and very laid back attitude in the herd. She has had a few foals previously, and we anticipate no major difficulties as she has been an easy breeder, easy foaler and a loving mother.



























And the future daddy of her foals, also homozygous black purebred registered arabian. He produces babies bred to excel in hunter, western pleasure, endurance and pleasureable trail rides. Of the few foals my mom has bred, he has a son training to show in Class A western pleasure (trainer thinks he would do even better in reining but owner who will show/ride him doesn't know how to do reining), a daughter who is about to start under saddle for hunter pleasure showing, a daughter who is going to start training for endurance racing (Tevis Cup is the owner's goal), another daughter who is awesome for her owner's pleasure trail riding, and a daughter who sold as a weanling last fall to a show barn in Utah as their national level western pleasure prospect. 




































So, enjoy lots of eye candy as you shop around at possibilities. 

I can say this for a weanling foal that my mom sells... She sells for less than it would cost to breed for your own when you factor in stud fees, mare care, vet costs, additional expenses in feed/shots/boarding/foal watch (my mom literally camps out in a tent by the mare's paddock during foal watch as that is her favorite part, watching the birth making sure everything goes perfect and seeing the brand new foal enter the world) and she covers all expenses for vet care, buyer gets to choose the registered name and the cost of registration is included in the price (my mom registers the foal before the 6 month mark with the name chosen by the buyer, foal is weaned at 6 months). This is just her hobby which she enjoys and has had very happy buyers who have been able to buy their young dream horse for a really good price. If the foal is a colt, the price will be less than if it is a filly (colts don't sell nearly as well until they are well trained under saddle geldings). Although.. If my mom gets a filly with 4 stockings, that baby will be hers forever as that is her ultimate childhood dream horse but she will only retain 1 filly that has 4 stockings LOL. As to training a weanling would have, all natural horsemanship training, mostly influenced from Pat Parelli training methods, easy and gentle, non stressful and well socialized in a herd environment. Haltering, leading, picking up feet for farrier and loading into trailers. 


Anyways, just had to put this out there as you are shopping around for a baby that is a couple years out from hitting the ground


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## greentree

I like that Perseus horse! I don't know about the cross..I would need to see more of him.....


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## greentree

Too bad you are not ready now....I have a 1/2 Arab filly ready to be weaned...


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## KigerQueen

That is something i would certainly consider as both parents are beautiful! she looks ALOT like the mare i thought about leasing to breed (when i get her name i will post it)! If the vet says no (or the costs are alot more than im willing to spend with a nice baby within my reach). i will take you up on that 


as for the Fable horse here is one of his sons. he is3/4 Arabian, 1/4 Connemara. 

his name is MISTY SMOKEY COLORADO




























here is a list of his foals
Fable Perseus Arabian


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## KigerQueen

what is your guys take on this guy? 










HR Hasims Legacy


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## DraftyAiresMum

Kiger, look around up here, too. I can help with transport for the cost of fuel.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KigerQueen

now you saying for stud or to buy? im looking all over the state. nut just phoenix.


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## DraftyAiresMum

To buy. Just a thought, if you're worried about transport costs. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KigerQueen

not worried about costs. i kinda factor that in. and once the truck is fixed and we get new tires we have a 3 horse trailer. thank you though


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## stevenson

If you are breeding to an arabian stud , check his lineage. Check for lordosis in the SE lines,
and that disease that makes them like wobbles in the hind end. That mare i had Princess Talesis had been bred for many years before I got her, and she had some horrid confo and the disease where her back end did not move in sync with her front end. She was not ridden, she just hung around and ate and pooped and had a lot of issues. 
There are a lot of nice quarter horses in AZ. It all dpends on what you are looking for,if you want a heavy or bigger horse you need to look at Roping bred horses. Your mare looks to have a club foot which is genetic. People do breed mares with navicular and keep them buted up when they get painful, and usually after that foal the mares are put down.
I would be more concerned with finishing fences first.


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## KigerQueen

as for the fences, not my land and not my job. i have done my best with that but when people dont listen to the advice you give for non rational reasons you let them figure it out.

as for the club foot, no she does not have one. she has a foot that is stretched from her favorite grazing/dirt picking position.

I agree with the roping lines. but lord getting your hands on a half decent put together QH is expensive. i have a cuple of breeders in mind when it comes to stock type horses. but im thinking of sticking with arabian. 

What lines are susceptible to Lordosis and SE? any stud she is bred with will have to be tested for all genetic conditions carried by arabians. my mare will be too and possible some that QHs carry (i am 90% positive she is pure arabian but there is a chance there is something in the wood pile).


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## KigerQueen

IF i do breed her i would change where i boarded her. I would move her to an arabian breeding facility where they use my vets and offer broodmare board. They will help you from step one of breeding/AI pregnant mare care and foaling out, foal handling and even show training. its about $300 a month in board. Again This is an IF sanario. I will more then likly buy a foal but there is a %10 chance that i might breed. I love my mare and she is not a bad looking arabian. Very type head without being overly so, the only issue with her legs is being slightly tied in at the knee and cow hocked (though i think that's how she stands as she can and dose straighten them out if she wants). The bump on her croup is and old and heald SI joint injury so it makes it look a lot steeper than it is. So again i know she is not without fault and there are more reasons not to breed than to breed but humor me please? I am well aware of the costs involved. not the first broodmare and foal i have been around. used to live on a cutting ranch where they had a son of Smart little lena and one of the last colts out of Smart lil Ricochet. I am also aware of how to train and handle a foal from day one (that was my "job" on the ranch was to halter break and put some ground work on the filly). 

Sooo Back on track? what is your guy's takes on babson lines?


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## greentree

I think he is too similar to your mare in his hindquarter. She needs depth of hip, and strength through her back and topline.


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## KigerQueen

So im looking for a longer croup and flatter croup? So more like the Fable stud?


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## greentree

That Perseus is a little too heavy on the Raffles for me...I have no problem with line breeding, but Raffles was a tiny little horse, and I would shy away from THAT much of him. 

For me, the black horse that Sunny Draco posted is too high in the hip..but THAT hip looks strong. 

You also need to be very aware of coupling and back length....
The 3/4 colt above is a beautiful color, but l o n g in the back, and not a good mover at all. See his hind legs streaming out behind him? And not swinging underneath him?


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## SunnyDraco

greentree said:


> For me, the black horse that Sunny Draco posted is too high in the hip..but THAT hip looks strong.


The butt high look is due to standing on an uneven hillside, we took some artistic pictures this past July. 

Here is a picture (added a grid to help see as he was not standing parallel to the wall and so the floor angle is distracting) that was taken when he was 9 years old (photo taken days after my mom bought him). He is actually almost perfectly level between withers and hip heights, stands at 15.1hh and he has an awesome strong hip which is why his babies are born athletes


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## KigerQueen

greentree said:


> That Perseus is a little too heavy on the Raffles for me...I have no problem with line breeding, but Raffles was a tiny little horse, and I would shy away from THAT much of him.
> 
> For me, the black horse that Sunny Draco posted is too high in the hip..but THAT hip looks strong.
> 
> You also need to be very aware of coupling and back length....
> The 3/4 colt above is a beautiful color, but l o n g in the back, and not a good mover at all. See his hind legs streaming out behind him? And not swinging underneath him?


Darn. i liked his build too. The thing is i dont really know where to look for a nice stud. Pink Floyd i stumbled upon on the forum and fell in love (though i dont know if he really compliments my mare). the others where all google lol. and out here i find more halter (like extreme halter) bred ones. 


Draco he is handsome!


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## stevenson

the horse Sunny posted is parked out like they do in the Arabian shows .


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## SunnyDraco

stevenson said:


> the horse Sunny posted is parked out like they do in the Arabian shows .


Set up in almost a square (3 feet directly below and one hind a step back), not parked out setup like you see in Morgans, Tennesse Walkers and saddlebreds with their back legs extended far back while upright on the front legs ;-)


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## KigerQueen

Sooo i have also been mulling around breeding her to an andalusian (can be registered as half andalusian), i have heard amazing things about Hispano Arabes (andalusian X arabian). what would your take on that be guys?




















or i could even jump on the "mix everything with Friesians" bandwagon. seen some nice Friesian arabian crosses. though its more of a gamble on that one (and there is a friesian sporthorse registry).

























only half serious about the last cross though they are nice. i should probably stick to arabs but its fun to dream right?


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## goneriding

You can't just breed pretty with pretty in any breed. You have to know your mares lineage thoroughly along with the potential stallion. So much can come through and present itself as a fault if you don't study your genetics. You have ask yourself, "What is my goal?" You can't be all over the board.


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## KigerQueen

well studying her lineage is impossible so i understand that. i am aware you just just breed purdy with purdy. i have seen all nice crosses of the andalusian. i was just a thought as i saw one for sale earlier. its alway been a goal of mine to breed for one. but that being said it was just a thought.


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## Yogiwick

Honestly even the crosses you posted made me wince.

But especially with your mares conformation I would breed purebred. I don't think she's the right horse to crossbreed.


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## KigerQueen

Lol ok so sticking with arabians. I stumbled across these guys. i am always leary of color breeders but these studs dont look too bad to my untrained eye (hence why i'm posting them here). Found them through a mutual friend on fb. 

Anyway first is Rhocky Rhoad. the second is Rhoad Rhave, son of Rhocky Rhoad. both purebred arabians with sabino.


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## greentree

Sickle hocked. Love Rocky Road colts, though!


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## KigerQueen

Both or just Rhocky Rhoad?


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## KigerQueen

I like this guy. i actually know some of his blood lines lol!

Tezmar Bey


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## KigerQueen

for some reason this guy also keeps catching my eye. i dont like how overly refined he looks but i feel compelled to post him.








Grand Commandd Â« ArabianCentric.com

I like this guy too though he is more of a park horse








VCP Magnifire Â« ArabianCentric.com

this guy dose not look too bad either.








Al Ayal AA Â« ArabianCentric.com


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## KigerQueen

yeah looking at command im not liking him very much.


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## Kyro

I'm no professional, but I love Tezmar Bey - looks like a strudy horse, who will stay sound and he has good conformation. 

I also like Rhocky Rhoad, not very fond of his back legs, but nothing too bad either.


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## KigerQueen

i love the huckleberry babies. he is related to the second bay i posted before the gray one. I like the more useing types but i now need to see what one compliments my mare. again i more than likly won't breed but if i do i will be using the best breeding vet in the state. and she would be boarded at an arabian breeding facility that offers broodmare board. sooo IF it works out i can sleep easy on where she will be. 

So arabian breeding/confo peeps. what is your thoughts on the studs and who would compliment my mare the best?


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## KigerQueen

so here is the line up so far (i have too much time on my hands today. and not the best pics of pony as she takes horrid pics).


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## KigerQueen

well according to last years stud add Tezmar is not longer standing to the public (last year was his last year standing). so i'm bumbed.


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## Dehda01

The problem breeding a grade Arabian mate is that I have no clue what her lines are. Knowing her lines make it very easy to inbreed her accidentally or breed her to non-complementary bloodlines, which makes recommending a stallion nearly impossible. 

That said- I would be very cautious breeding to the grey horse. He is lovely, but he is a halter horse, and while I don't have the time to look up his show record, his breeder and trainers normally don't need to train their horses under saddle so his temperament under saddle probably hasn't been proven. That is probably very important for you. You need a stallion that has a good temperament and not just look pretty. 

The Beijing stallion may look lovely. Again be aware looking at halter horses, and make sure they can back it up doing something else under saddlebbHe is s bit light looking, but I can't slow down to see how old he is here. But Beh Shahs are known for leg problems - particularly navicular and club feet and can be temperamental. So always be super aware when looking at his parents and offspring. 

Desperado babies are typically known for their generous temperaments and Varian bloodlines are lovely. But be aware that they are everywhere. So again you run into inbreeding questions with your mare.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KigerQueen

agreed. i lean towards the desperado huckleberry lines. looked at vrian arabian stallion and was very disappointed. she has only halter arabian stallions. I am still trying to find out who my mare is but that is an uphill battle.


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## Dehda01

Sheila Varian has had to tweak her program to stay viable, particularly recently with her major illness. But her halter horses are also shown under saddle, and she is the queen of a straight up bridle horse. So having a brain is still very important to her. I have had many long conversations with her and she is an amazing trainer and horsewoman. unfortunatly, with her current illness, she isn't able to be giving her time.

Major Mac and *Julleyn have all had foals prove themselves under saddle and I personally know a handful with lovely temperaments that would be welcome in my barn.


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## KigerQueen

well that makes me happier about that! i was so sad when i did not see a desperado baby as one of her new studs. i know someone with two varian bred mares (might see about a breeding lease with one). glad to know she is still looking for temperament above all. think they would be light for my mare though. or maybe not. i would like to show more than do crazy endurance rides over mountains. i have a mustang i can kidnap for that.


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## Dehda01

Look farther back on major Macs pedigree. Same varian lines. Desperado is in there through the sire multiple times I would guess. His dam was an outcross. Can't look it up- Many generations of improvements.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Smilie

Very few registries allow one grade parent. A horse that has no papers, is considered a grade
For me, with so many horses already being bred, it always made sense to first of all, have proven blood top and bottom, or at least mind tested under saddle
Thus, we always rode our broodmares first, even if they were not shown, as we also used AQHA mares in our Appaloosa program, and I don't show AQHA. Those mares were trail ridden though
I then either bred to our stallion, who was proven under saddle, or bred out to one with a proven show record, and proven offspring,
With transported semen available, the range of suitable stallions, proven at upper limits, in whatever discipline you wish, are available, no matter where you live
I can understand maybe wanting a foal out of your favorite mare, without worrying about any marketability, keeping that baby, no matter what, but life happens!
Then, as pointed out, your breeding expenses can become quite high, trying to get a maiden mare her age in foal, and to carry that foal to term.


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## Smilie

Dehda01 said:


> Sheila Varian has had to tweak her program to stay viable, particularly recently with her major illness. But her halter horses are also shown under saddle, and she is the queen of a straight up bridle horse. So having a brain is still very important to her. I have had many long conversations with her and she is an amazing trainer and horsewoman. unfortunatly, with her current illness, she isn't able to be giving her time.
> 
> Major Mac and *Julleyn have all had foals prove themselves under saddle and I personally know a handful with lovely temperaments that would be welcome in my barn.


I of course have heard of Shiela, through working cowhorse. Many of these established breeders, first of all, often limit their stallions to proven mares, and do not breed to grades
Maybe Shiela makes exceptions, but I do know, any horse people here with a proven established operation, are quite particular as to which mares they will breed their stallions to, and the only ones breeding to grades, often at a reduced rate, as those entry level types, that are just standing a stallion, trying to get some breedings. People like Shiela do not need to do so, and often have their breeding book full

hERE ARE HER COMMANDMENTS FOR BREEDING HORSES:

http://www.varianarabians.com/breeding/ten_commandments.asp


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## KigerQueen

you're a bit late in this thread. my mare is NOT a maiden. i am aware of the expense and it dose not matter what the dam is for a half arabian to be registered. all that matters is if one parent is registered. i wont breed for anything that wont be registerable in anyway. i know life happens. trust me the last two months its been hitting HARD and it can please stop at any time. i am aware of pickiness of stud owners. if they say no that is their right and i wont go home and cry about it. i also stated many time in this thread that the chance of me ACTUALLY breeding my mare is small. many things in my life have to happen and they have to happen within a small amount of time. if it dose not happen then it does not happen. just playing around with the idea more than anything. and if things magically aline then ill not waste time (and possibly miss my time frame) going thought this process of having a small list of possible studs.


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## Dehda01

Technically, you are not supposed to be breeding for a half-Arab foal if the non-Arab parent is an unregistered purebred Arab either. Rule REG 102(2). 

But there really isn't any way for them to prove it, since you can't track her down either.

Smilie- she isn't trying to breed through Varians, rather breeding to a Varian bred stallion. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Smilie

Okay, get that, but can you breed an unregistered Arab to a registered horse and get a registered babY?
I bred my App mares out some to AQHA, but had to have papers.
Does the Arabian registry not work the same way-if you use another breed to get a half Arabian, does not that outcross mare have to be on the stallion report, including her registration number, by whatever association she is registered with?


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## Dehda01

If you breed an unregistered mare to a registered Arabian stallion you get a registered half-Arabian foal. 

The stallion report would say that he bred a grade mare. If he bred a qh mare, she would be listed as such. 

When the registration was sent in if the mare WAS registered, then you would send in a copy of her paperwork and the mares registration numbered and MAYBE her pedigree would be listed on the papers depending on the agent you get. I have fought to get full pedigrees put in for half-Arab foals.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KigerQueen

i thought so too but that's more of an if you have a mare that COULD be registered and dont from laziness because you took your time and did not want to pay the late registration fees. but since i can't get her papers or register her i could breed her to an arabian by technicality.


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## Smilie

So, a grade out cross allows a half Arabian registration? Interesting!


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## Dehda01

Yes, as long as one parent is a registered Arabian, you can have a registered half-arabian foal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dehda01

There are quite a few national champions out there with grade parents- whether the breeder was too lazy to track down papers or not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## greentree

Smilie said:


> So, a grade out cross allows a half Arabian registration? Interesting!


Yes, because adding Arabian to ANYTHING makes it BETTER!!!


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## Yogiwick

They ARE still half Arabian. I like that. It's very "real" not jumping through hoops. If your horse has 2 registered purebred parents it is a purebred, if it has one it is half purebred. Very simple.

Now a lot of the nicer ones are duel (or more) registered and not just joe blow grade, or are purebreds and it was a paper mix up.

BUT your half Arabian cannot be bred to say a TB and the foal registered HA, one parent must be a registered PB.


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## KigerQueen

i dont see how its interesting. its simple. its half arabian. so you register it as half arabian. if its a grade and a paint, you cannot register it as a paint. if its a pinto thoroughbred you can register it as a paint. if you have a half paint half quarter horse that is non tobiano you can register it with the APHA and AQHA. 

But half arabian is just that. Half. Arabian.

Now may we get pack to the thread at hand please .

Was looking up the gray stud. dont know too much of his pedigree but his grand sire is Huckleberry Bey. but as stated he is quite a bit more haltery. i dont mind a SLIGHTLY exaggerated arabian face and th look of the non extreme halter horses. as long as it dose not try to kill me under saddle im ok lol! but since im 30 min away from west world and go to the scottsdale arabian horse show i would like something that might have a chance of at least competing there. even if its just a halter class .


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## Dehda01

The gray stallion you posted of the four stallions you made of an array with your mare is straight Egyptian. Al Ayal AA. No chance of Huckleberry Bey there.

Unless you are talking about another grey?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KigerQueen

lol ignore me i derped. i was thinking of Thee Desperado (as in desperado v because they are totally closely related.) and my brain said nope, let's not think of things today XD. I "LIKE" the SE arabians BUT they have mostly gotten a bit extreme for my tastes. and from what i have seen (and witnessed) is most are not the most solid riding horses (OMG my own shadow! i must run to the fence and suddenly spook at that too!). but the SE crossed with another arabian line dont look to bad.


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## KigerQueen

Found this guy. i like the look of him and event though im not the biggest fan of grays i have no objection to owning one (color is only a plus to me honestly, not a necessity).









JRs Legacy of Naborr
http://www.jrsgentlehills.com/JRs_Legacy_of_Naborr.php

one thing is hopefully falling into place for me. I have a final interview for the job i have been trying to get on monday. if all goes well Negra will being getting the full lameness workup and what not asap. then IF all goes well i can work on getting her in foal 2017 for a 2018 foal. If i can work on me lack or credit (i have not built it yet because i have had no credit cards. will be getting care credit for my medical bills and pony medical bills so there is one way to build it). Once that's all worked out it will be time to go real estate shopping. NOW that is if life does not ***** slap me like it has the past 2 months. Crossing my fingers all goes well! (for the interview anyway).


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## greentree

That horse does nothing for me. I don't care for his neck. I don't care for the way he moves.


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## KigerQueen

thought he was average at best. but apparently fancy breeding and bloodlines so thought i might be missing something lo!


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## Yogiwick

Breeding/bloodlines are obviously extremely important to breeding but they should be used to back up an exemplary horse and to help with the comparison to the mare (what the foal will look like). Not to make an average horse exemplary. Sometimes you can have a "bad egg" (shouldn't be BAD lol but just not what yo'd expect) that is worth breeding due to bloodlines and produces well above, but that isn't what you are looking for in this situation. That would be more of an experiment for a top breeder and one that should be done long before offering the horse to the public, if ever. I don't see a horse that needs to be a stallion there. Nice gelding?

If you don't like them that's that. There are plenty of fish in the sea.


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## KigerQueen

its complicated for me looking up arabian stallions. i know stock horses more than arabians and there are so many its hard to look up and study (for me at least). so when i literally google " Arabian Stallions" i am limited to what i find. found that guy on arabian times FB and alot of people were hopping over him. sooo thought i would ask lol! 

I am way open to suggestions when it comes to studs! please name a cuple if anyone knows lol! kinda what i was hoping for when i started asking.


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## Yogiwick

I don't in your area, that is the problem! 

We are pretty opposite!


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## KigerQueen

i honestly dont care if its AI. if that's what you are refering too. i am one of though if you are going to do it do it right people. i wont pick a stud just because he is local. if i find the perfect stud and i have to breed her to him via AI than i'm ok with that.


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## greentree

Scottsdale show is close....you can see first hand, talk to breeders, etc.


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## greentree

When you have the time, call this person. I don't know if they are going to Scottsdale.
Anyway, she has some nice horses!
Zazzaki » Karma Arabians


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## KigerQueen

i plan on going! go almost every year! that being said fiance is grumpy about breeding as there are enough homeless horses out there. yet HE is the one who insists on starting from the ground up with a baby (as he did with most of his). so bot kettle? soo I may just be taking names down and not conversating. i may though it depends on his grumpiness -_-'.


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## KigerQueen

oh i like him!!! I may call though i may wait untill vet visit. I have been known to count my chickens before they hatch. or even lay eggs for that matter lol! no problem compiling a list, its another to start talking to people when its a bit far off (and uncertain). if that makes sense (if i stop makeing any sense at any point let me know. having some insomnia issue so have not slept yet)


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## KigerQueen

ok... i read their about page... i may have to email her lol! (i HATE talking on the phone. funny how i am applying to a call center). if they are ok talking "horsie horsie" i'm in!


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## Smilie

greentree said:


> Yes, because adding Arabian to ANYTHING makes it BETTER!!!


One can say, depends'!
Afterall, Arabian reiners are half AQHA, and it is the AQHA that makes them better reiners or working cowhorses!
Arabians excel at distance riding, that is their absolute niche, and Arabians were also used to refine many breeds-in the beginning
Of course, bad examples in any breed, and crosses, but the worst horse I ever rode was an Anglo Arabian stallion
Arabian is an allowable outcross for Appaloosas, along with AQHA and TB. Very few Appaloosa breeders use an Arabian outcross, unless breeding an endurance horse
Race bred Apps use running AQHA or TB. Working horses, crossed out use AQHA


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## KigerQueen

thinking you were missing the sarcasm in the statement Smilie and if not that's fine.
arabians are a jack of all trades master of few. can say the same about QH, TBs, Friesians and so on. its down to the individual, the breeding and the training.

but im trying to stay somewhat focused with this thread now. i can see the stars aligning soo i want a decise small list of possible studs i could play quick elimination with.


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## KigerQueen

So the lady at Karma Arabians emailed me back ! Sadly informed me that one of her stallions LA died last week. but she did really like my mare and recommend a couple of her stallions including an LA son and the one greentree recommended. so excited about that . we shall see how my job interview goes. since i won't start (if i get it) till march her vet appointment won't be untill mid to late march at best.


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## JCnGrace

Good luck with the job interview!


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## greentree

Good thing you emailed her if you don't like talking on the phone.....for hours.....lol!

I have some fun stories about her....she is one of the MOST generous, trusting people on earth. 

She loaned me a horse for a college equine course (1983),and did not know me from Adam...we had a mutual Arabian friend. I broke him, trained him, gave him back, and she sold him to a nice lady. 

We cooked up this grand scheme for Regionals one year.....something was wrong with Tootsie, and I could not afford to spend $1000 on a show anyway, so I had just ignored it, until SHE called me. 
Would I consider showing another trainer's 1/2 Arabian Appaloosa stallion to make the carriage classes? Um, no, he is not trained to drive.....but if she drags some stuff around, he should be FINE, Hahahaha!! So, I picture the arena in Waco in my head, and it has concrete walls...so I figure I only have my life to lose!! At least, no innocent by-standers would be harmed...
We hung up, and then she called right back. I don't know what I was thinking, she said....I have a horse trained to drive in my pasture!!! Yeah, he is an 18 year old stallion, and yeah, the driving training was when he was 3....but we HAVE almost 2 WEEKS, so I hooked up the trailer and met her halfway between our homes, and we switched trailers at a gas station, and we worked him a few times....
Took him to Regionals and she and I split the Championship/ Reserves between us!! 

Good luck with the interview!


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## KigerQueen

LOL! she sounds amazing! too bad she is in region 9. I am always up for riding and showing other people's horses XD! is she on here? bet she would LOVE to chime in on this forum! 

Thank you! hoping all goes well. might look at buying land once i start working. some places you can get 5-10 acres for 2k-10k (normally less). I can sit on the land slowly adding things to it. after working at the call center for a while you get the option to work from home, so i could live far away as long as i have signal and internet.


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## Yogiwick

greentree said:


> Good thing you emailed her if you don't like talking on the phone.....for hours.....lol!
> 
> I have some fun stories about her....she is one of the MOST generous, trusting people on earth.
> 
> She loaned me a horse for a college equine course (1983),and did not know me from Adam...we had a mutual Arabian friend. I broke him, trained him, gave him back, and she sold him to a nice lady.
> 
> We cooked up this grand scheme for Regionals one year.....something was wrong with Tootsie, and I could not afford to spend $1000 on a show anyway, so I had just ignored it, until SHE called me.
> Would I consider showing another trainer's 1/2 Arabian Appaloosa stallion to make the carriage classes? Um, no, he is not trained to drive.....but if she drags some stuff around, he should be FINE, Hahahaha!! So, I picture the arena in Waco in my head, and it has concrete walls...so I figure I only have my life to lose!! At least, no innocent by-standers would be harmed...
> We hung up, and then she called right back. I don't know what I was thinking, she said....I have a horse trained to drive in my pasture!!! Yeah, he is an 18 year old stallion, and yeah, the driving training was when he was 3....but we HAVE almost 2 WEEKS, so I hooked up the trailer and met her halfway between our homes, and we switched trailers at a gas station, and we worked him a few times....
> Took him to Regionals and she and I split the Championship/ Reserves between us!!
> 
> Good luck with the interview!


OMG she really does sound like fun! haha


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## greentree

She's a doctor...she always gets her way!


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## KigerQueen

lol yes! she sent me pics of one of Legazzy's colts. very nice and more halter type but the stud is not too halter type himself. He is a spanish stallion but almost reminds me of a crabbet bred horse.


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## KigerQueen

i will say the interview went quite well  it anded with the lady and i talking about horses and chickens XD! she started it too! ill hear back from them next week so crossing my fingers. in other news i might be able to keep chickens were i live in az. i think the city council is still deciding on that as of lest week so we will see. paying almost $4 a dozen for eggs is getting OLD! would like our own hens (3 would be more than enough). 

Now just to hear back from them


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## KigerQueen

just got the call... I GOT THE JOB! so flipping excited i could cry! i start training the 22!


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## greentree

Hip, hip, hooray!&#55358;&#56593;


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## KigerQueen

yep! after my first week im setting my mare's vet apointment (then ill know my days off and can work around it) for the first week of march! FINALY get some answers. mught push back breeding her (IF i breed her)another year or two depending on how the next 8 months go. I can grab a little under 5 acres of land for a 20$ down of 2-3k and 85-143 a month. then get a small Cabin home for temp (untill something bigger can be placed on it). we will have all the stalls needed since we have them already at my sisters. Then I can put pasture in and I have say on turnout time! i will likly have to split the horses into two groups but that's fine. As long as Odie and Chris have HIGH VOLTAGE electric fence they should not break anything... 

So in other words the stairs are slowly aligning. we will see how they do in 8 months .


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## Tazzie

I just finished reading this whole thread, and my goodness! I'm glad you're going for a purebred now (IF you do breed)! I've been doing my own searching myself for a stud for Izzie, and one that I like is Mojave Kid in Washington (you can find him on Facebook). I believe he's from Varien lines as well  He's currently showing and training in Dressage, but he's done western pleasure, hunter pleasure, and sport horse classes. Halter too, but being a sport horse rider I tend to steer away from anything straight up halter!

Congrats on the job! That's exciting and will certainly help get everything in place! Good luck!


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## KigerQueen

Oh i LOVE him!!! The type of horse i like! can do anything if you ask and do it beautifully! and he has huckleberry bey on both sides as well.



















there is a vid of him at liberty at the 2012 scottsdale arabian horse show. OMG the song they picked XD!

https://youtu.be/mJF7GUhJPCo[/url
...! I think He has earned the right to breed!!!


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## KigerQueen

Seriously you guys need to see the vid LOL! and a plus for this guy besides a incredible show record is he is the same color as my girl and I LOVE that color!


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## Tazzie

Yup, he has the highest honor you can achieve through AHA, and it sounds like he passes on his easy going temperament to his offspring. I happened to see someone selling the breeding they had to him a while back, and saw he will breed for a Half Arabian. Quite a few of them are hitting the show ring as well, in various disciplines. He is exactly what I would want too since he has pretty much done every class for AHA. And he's handsome to boot 

He's supposedly 16 hands, but I don't know for sure if that's the case. I like that he isn't super willowy like other halter horses are.


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## KigerQueen

he is built a lot like huckleberry bey.


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## KigerQueen

think i have shuffled my list more and he is at the top XD!


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## Tazzie

I'm glad you like him too! I always second guess myself, but A LOT of people said he's a good looking boy. We won't be breeding for a few more years yet (would like Izzie to show at regionals a few times to prove her worth), but he's the first one I want to go to


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## KigerQueen

vet appointment is getting pushed back further because nosy people. out hard keeper is doing hard keeper things (and i think BO has all but stopped feeding him as he is losing weight despite the extra feed) and now people are complaining about him. fiance has been there for 9 years and has had no issues. now the past 5 months suddenly everything is an issue. according to one person our horse was living in "mud and Feces". umm what? his pee spot was smaller than normal when we moved him!!! now the person who has wanted our paint for YEARS is offering to "take him" like she is doing us a favor -_-' . lord give me patience because if you give me strength i will go to jail for aggravated assault!!!


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## KigerQueen

hey guess who is in this article for the scottsdale arabian horse show tazzie! LOL

Happy Scottsdale Arabian Week! | HORSE NATION


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## Tazzie

Heck yeah! I love watching the video of him!


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## daystar88

I have a Quarter Horse buckskin tobiano stud with a stud fee of $200 if you are interested. http://northernwindsfarm.weebly.com/uploads/2/0/3/0/20305693/7392700_orig.jpg


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