# Your Horse Is NOT Tri-colored.. It Is A Bay Paint.



## kenda (Oct 10, 2008)

Well....technically, they do have horses who exhibit three different colours on their coats.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Regular bays with stockings or a blaze have the same colors and nobody calls _them_ tri-colored. I have to agree with the OP. 'Tri-color' is just a silly buzz word that people have come up with to make their animal seem more special.

I guess by that criteria, my plain bay with a tiny sock and smidge of white on his forehead is 'tri-colored'. Does that make my chestnut with stockings/blaze and my fleabitten gray 'bi-colored', then?


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

tri, equals 3, Sounds like three colors to me,


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

if the horse is 3 colors it does mean tri . I know that the terminology is different but as kenda said..... lol


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## kenda (Oct 10, 2008)

Speed Racer said:


> Regular bays with stockings or a blaze have the same colors and nobody calls _them_ tri-colored.


 
Maybe we should start! May sell a few bays at exorbitant prices that way!

Heck I've got a flaxen chestnut with sabino, mines tri-coloured too!


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Amen!!!! That's a pet peeve of mine... Otherwise my bay gelding with socks is tri-coloured too, right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## minstrel (Mar 20, 2012)

I learned about colours the old fashioned British way, where we just describe the look not the genetics. So tricolour was a real colour, as was piebald and skew bald, and brown was someone stupid looking at a liver chestnut... I can admit that it's not genetically right, but when everyone understands what we're talking about, it doesn't bother me... Where I live, if I called anything a 'paint' I'd also get laughed out te place. Brits don't do 'americanisms'.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

minstrel said:


> I learned about colours the old fashioned British way, where we just describe the look not the genetics. So tricolour was a real colour, as was piebald and skew bald, and brown was someone stupid looking at a liver chestnut... I can admit that it's not genetically right, but when everyone understands what we're talking about, it doesn't bother me... Where I live, if I called anything a 'paint' I'd also get laughed out te place. Brits don't do 'americanisms'.


'Paint' is a really common term in the U.S. but is misused _a lot_... technically a horse is not a Paint unless it's registered with the APHA. But a lot of people don't know the difference between pinto (any of the various white patterning genes except appaloosa) and Paint (the breed).


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## Roadyy (Feb 9, 2013)

What would he be considered in your opinion?

And I don't mean the idiot ex S-I-L barefoot next to him..lol


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## minstrel (Mar 20, 2012)

verona1016 said:


> 'Paint' is a really common term in the U.S. but is misused _a lot_... technically a horse is not a Paint unless it's registered with the APHA. But a lot of people don't know the difference between pinto (any of the various white patterning genes except appaloosa) and Paint (the breed).


Good to know, thanks. But we don't really use the term 'pinto' here either... it's piebald, skewbald, and tricolour... or, like my sister, you simplify piebald to 'that cow over there'.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

It is so common for both non-horse and horse people to use terms that are technically incorrect. 
Paint for a pinto pattern
Colt for any young horse, fillies and geldings (or gildings) included
15.5 hands for 15 1/2 hands (15.5 is 15 1/2 but should be written 15.2)
I'm sure there are more but I can't think of them offhand.

Mostly, I just listen to people rattle on.


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## AnalisaParalyzer (Apr 25, 2012)

ready for how lazily classify my horses?
much like minstrels sister, i go with cow.

bay tb, how now brown cow.
Annie, how now patchy cow, how now red cow, how now B**** cow.
Abby, black
grey app.- how now spotted cow.

simple  

(i do know the real color names, this is my lazy talk )


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Well, technically some chimeric horses can be tri-colored ;-)

That's a big pet peeve of mine too, though. I guess "tri-colored" just sounds better than bay.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

I grew up knowing a loud pinto bay as a tri-colored. It was common terminology in my home state and seems common in my current state - so its not even restricted as a regional thing. In fact - I think its only on this particular forum that I've ever seen anyone make a stink over a pinto bay being called tri-colored. Its not a new term by any means - so who exactly decided it was wrong and when?


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Hmmm 'tri-color' reminds me of a beagle.....or we could say 'calico' as in a cat.....

Some people don't care to understand horsey lingo, I personally think it makes a person sound more horsey educated if they take the time to learn the correct terms, and to also recognize that different countries use different words.

In NZ if you said 'colt' you mean a male intact horse under the age of four. It becomes a stallion after the age of four, and a stud if its breeding.

Also a filly is considered a female horse under the age of four, over that age it is a mare.

In NZ the use if skewbald and piebald were/are used a lot. A paint is also considered a breed found in the states. Although NZ does have Pinto shows more commonly now than they used to.....it's just any horse with color like a skewbald or piebald.....

I find the way paints are categorized by their markings to be quite confusing....but that's because I'm new to it


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## ponypile (Nov 7, 2007)

The tri-colour thing bug me because it give a misconception that there is some extra, special, "tri" gene that is producing this flashy colour, when really it is just bay + pinto. It bugs me because it is incorrect and misleading. I think it originally came from dogs, as the term tricoloured is used (as the proper name) so describe a colour in some breeds.


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## HighonEquine (May 11, 2012)

See, it drives me nuts because when I hear "tri-color" I think of three separate and distinct coat types. So say the horse is chestnut, bay and also has paint type markings. That to me would be tri-colored. I guess when I see a paint, I think.. well that horse is chestnut/bay/black whatever, with white spots. 

I'm not going to smack anyone over it, it just bugs me!


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

These are TRUE Tri-colored paints/pintos:


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

^Yep, those guys are chimeric.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Interesting that so many consider "tri-color paint" a commonly used phrase to describe a bay paint/pinto. My old BO is a hardcore, old school cowboy. Horses are sorrel, bay, gray or black to him. A horse displaying a pinto pattern is a paint, regardless of breed or registry. Anything that isn't a quarter/stock horse is useless and anyone who uses anything but a western saddle ain't a real rider. Yet he despises the term "tri-color paint." He had a bay paint (APHA) mare he got in a herd dispersal off a ranch in New Mexico. When he sold her, he advertised her as a bay paint. Someone said "What a pretty tri-color" and he lost it (he's known for his short temper and blunt way). He said that the mare was a BAY, not a tri-color and that tri-color was just a fancy name some idiot came up with to make their bay paint seem more fancy (his words, not mine).

My problem with the term "tri-color paint" is mainly that it encompasses too many colors and is thereby inherently vague. A buckskin paint/pinto would be considered "tri-color," as would a dun paint/pinto. Heck, if you wanted to make your horse seem even more speshul, you could call a palomino paint/pinto and a flaxen chestnut paint/pinto a tri-color. If someone can't physically see your horse and you called it a "tri-color paint," they would wonder what, exactly, the base color is (bay, buckskin, dun, etc).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

I gots a dual-colored chestnut. Stupid city folk call it a palomeenie, but I knows better. Heck, I even gots two tri-colored leper chestnuts. The vet calls them palomeenie lepers, but he's a old guy and mixes his metaphorses a lot. I had me a bunch of them tri-colored bay lepers and one of them tri-colored homospotless ones too, but I sold two of 'em and traded the other one off on a new couch for the porch...


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## cakemom (Jul 4, 2010)

I kinda feel like they're my horses and I will call them what I want. In other words, if that's all you have to upset you in life is someone else's ignorance then you are doing better than most, and shouldn't let it bother you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AnalisaParalyzer (Apr 25, 2012)

Homospotless!?!?! Bahahahahahs! Omg yay. Thank you for that laugh 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Roadyy said:


> What would he be considered in your opinion?
> 
> And I don't mean the idiot ex S-I-L barefoot next to him..lol
> 
> View attachment 139826


I'd call him skinny.


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## Roadyy (Feb 9, 2013)

SlideStop said:


> I'd call him skinny.


Well, yea he was that, when he brought him to me, but I wouldn't call him that as much anymore. He is gaining weight very nicely over the last couple of weeks without over doing it.

He is one of 3 horses I am working on getting up to weight and muscle due a lack of ability on the previous owner's part. I'm just thankful they gave them up before it became fatal.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Roadyy said:


> What would he be considered in your opinion?
> 
> And I don't mean the idiot ex S-I-L barefoot next to him..lol
> 
> View attachment 139826


I'd call him a brown pinto (or paint, if he's registered) with frame and splash (I think).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

I agree with the OP. By this logic palomino, buckskin, dun, and silver dapple paints would ALL be "tri-colored." 

If I were horse shopping I wouldn't even look at a horse advertised as a "tri-color paint." It just screams "uneducated owner."


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## HighonEquine (May 11, 2012)

Faceman said:


> I gots a dual-colored chestnut. Stupid city folk call it a palomeenie, but I knows better. Heck, I even gots two tri-colored leper chestnuts. The vet calls them palomeenie lepers, but he's a old guy and mixes his metaphorses a lot. I had me a bunch of them tri-colored bay lepers and one of them tri-colored homospotless ones too, but I sold two of 'em and traded the other one off on a new couch for the porch...


Now that was funny!:rofl:


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## HorseLovinLady (Jul 18, 2011)

I call bay paints tri colored too lol.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Guilty as charged any bay, or buckskin appy or pinto is tri coloured to me.
I have heard it all my life and if you ever talk to some of the oldtimers and use words like splash or sabino they look at you like your from mars.
I am only concerned with the colours of bay, black, grey, or chestnut if it is an Arabian.
Add buckskin, brown dun and palomino if it is anything else. forgot Cremello or Perlino.
Pinto are overo, tobiano, or tovero IMO as they are registered.
Faceman has explained the Appy patterns but if I have any colour question I wll PM either Chillaa or NDappy and use all the proper relevant terms. Only so they dont think I am a total idiot. Shalom


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

"Tri-color" falls into the category of terms that we who study color genetics twitch at. Other include overo, tovero, skewbald, and piebald. Though I personally see piebald and skewbald as more annoying than tri-color. At least nearly any person I've heard use tri-color has always referred to a bay pinto. Skewbald is ridiculously vague. 
.


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## HighonEquine (May 11, 2012)

This brings up for me the topic of the different patterns of Paints and Appaloosas. That is one thing I'm not all too familiar with! Anyone have any knowledge to share?


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Morgan Colors- Your Information Station for Morgan Color Genetics and Color History is a favorite of mine. Any individual questions can be answered in the Colors and Genetics section. There are a few of us who enjoy studying color genes and are more than happy to help others learn.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HighonEquine (May 11, 2012)

Poseidon said:


> Morgan Colors- Your Information Station for Morgan Color Genetics and Color History is a favorite of mine. Any individual questions can be answered in the Colors and Genetics section. There are a few of us who enjoy studying color genes and are more than happy to help others learn.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you!


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

Poseidon said:


> "Tri-color" falls into the category of terms that we who study color genetics twitch at.


But who cares about color genetics, other than that small group? The point is, or should be, that if you have a bunch of horses in a field, and tell the guy standing next to you "Look at that tri-color one" (or bay, palamino, etc), he's going to know which one you're talking about. Language is about communication, and when you insist on using the language of your in-group with people outside that group, you aren't communicating.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

jamesqf said:


> But who cares about color genetics, other than that small group? The point is, or should be, that if you have a bunch of horses in a field, and tell the guy standing next to you "Look at that tri-color one" (or bay, palamino, etc), he's going to know which one you're talking about. Language is about communication, and when you insist on using the language of your in-group with people outside that group, you aren't communicating.


So why even USE the term "tri-color paint" when bay paint describes the same horse just as well, if not better? "Tri-color paint," aside from being genetically incorrect, is also superfilous. Is "bay paint" not "speshul" enough to describe a bay paint/pinto, that there has to be another name for it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Hmmm I definitely have color preferences, I prefer a solid color. However at the end of the day, no matter what color the horse is or how we refer to a particular color doesn't matter as much as how well the horse performs for us in our chosen discipline:wink: I like to hear the correct terminology because it makes having a mutually understood conversation a lot easier to follow......nevertheless I have google to help me out!:wink:


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

You say tomAYto
I say toMAHto
You say poTAYto
I say poTAHto

ToMAYto, ToMAHto
PoTAYto, PoTAHto

Let's call the whole thing off.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

texasgal said:


> You say tomAYto
> I say toMAHto
> You say poTAYto
> I say poTAHto
> ...


You say hood
I say bonnet

You say trunk
I say boot

You say sidewalk
I say footpath

You say windshield
I say windscreen

You say turning signal
I say indicators

You say yield
I say give way

Oh my......the list could go on and on!!!!!


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

jamesqf said:


> But who cares about color genetics, other than that small group? The point is, or should be, that if you have a bunch of horses in a field, and tell the guy standing next to you "Look at that tri-color one" (or bay, palamino, etc), he's going to know which one you're talking about. Language is about communication, and when you insist on using the language of your in-group with people outside that group, you aren't communicating.


 
I have to agree with this, to a degree. While I enjoy knowing proper terms for things and enjoy being able to talk to people who understand what I'm talking about -- there are times when you have to be able to communicate to someone and your fancy dancy proper terms aren't important.

I guarantee you if I started blathering about proper rabbit or chicken terms, the average pet rabbit or chicken owner would have NO IDEA .. If they are receptive, teach'em.. otherwise .. so what??

Recent true story. I had a horse come up missing a few weeks ago. I was close to panic when I called the Sheriff dept and during the multiple calls that happened after that. Each time, I was asked "What color is your horse?" .. and each time I had this delimma. 

See, my horse is brown. Solid brown. But 99% of the population would call him black. Do I say brown? Do I say black? S

o I found myself saying "Most people would call him black, but he is brown.. really, most people would say black"

"Well, we picked up a black horse that fits that description"

"Yes, yes, he's black .. with the following brands..."

"Ma'am .. Mr. So-n-So has your horse, he's fine."


If I had insisted on the "correct" term, 'cause by-God it's PROPER, Deputy City-Transplant might have thought I was talking about a Sorrel or Bay horse..

I.HAD.TO.COMMUNICATE... If calling him BLACK helps do that .. that's what I did.

(the horse was fine.. someone opened the gap and he got out)


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

texasgal said:


> I have to agree with this, to a degree. While I enjoy knowing proper terms for things and enjoy being able to talk to people who understand what I'm talking about -- there are times when you have to be able to communicate to someone and your fancy dancy proper terms aren't important.
> 
> I guarantee you if I started blathering about proper rabbit or chicken terms, the average pet rabbit or chicken owner would have NO IDEA .. If they are receptive, teach'em.. otherwise .. so what??
> 
> ...


That is an understandable situation where using the term that everyone would call your horse would be acceptable and encouraged. That kind of situation is not the issue in this case, however. I can guarantee you that if your horse was a bay paint and you described him as such, 99% of the people would have known what you were talking about and that other 1% you would have had to describe either term to them anyway. So, why have two names for the same exact color that are redundant (meaning they describe the same coloring equally well)? Because "bay paint" isn't good enough for some people? Sorry, not a good enough answer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Do you say sorrel .. or chestnut?


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

I say chestnut because it is the "officially" recognized (by breed registries, even the AQHA) term for a red-based horse with no cream, dun or other diluting factors. *shrug*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Roadyy (Feb 9, 2013)

sorrel, then again I honestly didn't know the difference between a sorrel and a lineback dun until I got sugar, my 3 yr old LB Dun. I still only see the difference as a dark line down her spine.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Roadyy said:


> sorrel, then again I honestly didn't know the difference between a sorrel and a lineback dun until I got sugar, my 3 yr old LB Dun. I still only see the difference as a dark line down her spine.


That's another redundant term that makes color people twitch a little (but not as badly as tri-color paint). A dun, in order to be classified as a dun, must have a dorsal stripe. No dorsal stripe (aka-lineback), no dun.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Roadyy (Feb 9, 2013)

I don't mind showing my ignorance to the facts around non- ignorant to the fact people so that I can learn. 

I only have so many hours in the day to learn on each thing I find interesting so reading through the colo(u)r threads hasn't been as much a priority as health, training and riding info has been. Once I get a lot more up to date on important info regarding those things then I will try to focus some attention on being smarter about their pigmentation. I'm thankful there are people out there who already know more and have probably forgotten more than I will learn so I can ask questions.


So here is my official thank you to those who know and are willing to inform my ignorance.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Roadyy said:


> I don't mind showing my ignorance to the facts around non- ignorant to the fact people so that I can learn.
> 
> I only have so many hours in the day to learn on each thing I find interesting so reading through the colo(u)r threads hasn't been as much a priority as health, training and riding info has been. Once I get a lot more up to date on important info regarding those things then I will try to focus some attention on being smarter about their pigmentation. I'm thankful there are people out there who already know more and have probably forgotten more than I will learn so I can ask questions.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry. I didn't mean what I said nearly as witchy as it sounded. I apologize for any offense, for none was intended at all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Roadyy (Feb 9, 2013)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> I'm sorry. I didn't mean what I said nearly as witchy as it sounded. I apologize for any offense, for none was intended at all.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No,No No..It wasn't taken as witchy at all!!!! Promise.....


I was expressing my gratitude for having access to someone more knowledgeable than I, while also stating I am glad my pride doesn't get in the way of correcting my ignorance on certain subjects. 

I also tried to explain my lack of knowledge in the color scheme of things.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

If I were breeding Paints or Pintos i would probably use the 'proper" terms.
I use the term tri colour not because I think they arent "speshul" enough but because that is what they are called here. Bays or buckskin pintos are called tri coloured by the locals. Then again any horse with pinto is called a paint. Even cows , goats, sheep, and a camel I know of are called Paints by the old timers and we all know what they are referring to. You may not agree with it and allow the term to make you cringe but around here it is the terminology used. Shalom


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## minstrel (Mar 20, 2012)

I agree that it depends who you talk to. If I were to send a student in to get 'the bay horse with white patterns', they would as likely come out with my technically brown horse with a white stripe and socks than they would a bay pinto. So I'd ask for the tricolour. Talking to a geneticist, I'd call it a bay with white patterns (again, I would be looked at way more funny using 'pinto' or 'paint'...)

Its like when i was a vet school - between ourselves and with professors we would discuss degenerative joint disease of the humero-radio-ulnar joint causing chronic inflammation, but to the owner it would be an ongoing arthritis flare up in the knee. Means the same, but you change your language based on who you're speaking to. And the average horse owner doesn't need to use the full correct terminology to be understood


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

dbarabians said:


> Even cows , goats, sheep, and a camel I know of are called Paints by the old timers and we all know what they are referring to.


Yeah, yeah, we know. Most of you think db was always a little scrawny guy, but in his day they called him Mongo. Here he is in his 30's riding his Paint...


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## Roadyy (Feb 9, 2013)

minstrel said:


> I agree that it depends who you talk to. If I were to send a student in to get 'the bay horse with white patterns', they would as likely come out with my technically brown horse with a white stripe and socks than they would a bay pinto. So I'd ask for the tricolour. Talking to a geneticist, I'd call it a bay with white patterns (again, I would be looked at way more funny using 'pinto' or 'paint'...)
> 
> Its like when i was a vet school - between ourselves and with professors we would discuss degenerative joint disease of the humero-radio-ulnar joint causing chronic inflammation, but to the owner it would be an ongoing arthritis flare up in the knee. Means the same, but you change your language based on who you're speaking to. And the average horse owner doesn't need to use the full correct terminology to be understood


In layman terms....dumb it down for the likes of me....lol


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## minstrel (Mar 20, 2012)

Roadyy said:


> In layman terms....dumb it down for the likes of me....lol


Not quite what I mean!  More like, when talking amongst people who have real knowledge and interest in a field, like colour genetics, you want to use the correct terminology. But day to day, a working vocabulary is all that matters. When you're just identifying a horse in a field, whether it's bay or brown doesn't really matter so long as you both know which horse you're talking about, but if you want to chat in depth about colouration then it does. Not so much dumbing down... what I mean, I guess, is that it shouldn't be labelled ignorance, willful or not, to not use the official, genetically correct terms for colour so long as we all know what we're talking about.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

jamesqf said:


> But who cares about color genetics, other than that small group? The point is, or should be, that if you have a bunch of horses in a field, and tell the guy standing next to you "Look at that tri-color one" (or bay, palamino, etc), he's going to know which one you're talking about. Language is about communication, and when you insist on using the language of your in-group with people outside that group, you aren't communicating.


I don't go around saying, "Oh yes, this fine horse is a brown sabino that is heterozygous black." I do often refer to horses in a way that the average owner would understand, but if someone asks a question about, say, why I called a horse brown rather than bay, I will happily explain my reasoning if they're willing to listen. 

But I don't go around saying "who cares?" to people who are more versed in different subjects than I am either.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

minstrel said:


> I agree that it depends who you talk to. If I were to send a student in to get 'the bay horse with white patterns', they would as likely come out with my technically brown horse with a white stripe and socks than they would a bay pinto. So I'd ask for the tricolour.


OTOH, with maybe 9 out of 10 people (as with the local cop in the post above), if you said "bay horse", they'd either go "huh?" or come back with a light brown one. (I would have, until I wound up owning a bay ) Whereas if you say "reddish-brown one with a black mane & tail), just about anyone would understand. Communication, again..


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Yes, it's all about whom you are talking to and in what situation. I'm just very glad I don't need to know all the technicalities of colours. My horses have all been nice, simple, easy bays (2 "reddish-brown with black mane, tail and socks" and one "black" bay  ) and one palomino.

If I ever ended up with a grulla or cremello or overo (is that even right), I'd never be able to find my horse because I wouldn't know what colour it is! :lol:


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## HighonEquine (May 11, 2012)

It doesn't help me any that I'm super anal and very factual and ya know, maybe that is something I need to work on! I've just always been the type of person that wants to know everything about what I'm interested in.. to the point of the correct way to refer to colors :lol:

Did I mention that they don't even know the sex of the foal yet? 

:shock:

I'm going to assume basic handling and healthcare has yet to incur as well.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

HighonEquine said:


> *I've just always been the type of person that wants to know everything about what I'm interested in.. to* the point of the correct way to refer to colors :lol:


This is ABSOLUTELY me also .. I just stop short of requiring everyone around me to be like me.


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## HighonEquine (May 11, 2012)

texasgal said:


> This is ABSOLUTELY me also .. I just stop short of requiring everyone around me to be like me.


I don't either! I never once made a smart remark or tried to correct the person. I just needed a place to vent, where I knew fellow horse people would understand!


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

I gotcha .. it wasn't directed at anyone in particular.. *smile*


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## Reiner8 (Sep 1, 2012)

Bay paint and tri color paint are both appropriate


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## HighonEquine (May 11, 2012)

texasgal said:


> I gotcha .. it wasn't directed at anyone in particular.. *smile*


You can never tell with comments, lol. There has been multiple times I've read a comment.. and honestly couldn't tell if it was snarky and sarcastic or not. Don't ya just love electronic communication?! :lol:


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

HighonEquine said:


> You can never tell with comments, lol. There has been multiple times I've read a comment.. and honestly couldn't tell if it was snarky and sarcastic or not. Don't ya just love electronic communication?! :lol:


Right?! And I'm really bad about leaving off punctuation or a smiley or some indication that I'm not being snarky..


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## HighonEquine (May 11, 2012)

Reiner8 said:


> Bay paint and tri color paint are both appropriate


Yes, you can call a bay paint a tri-color paint and it certainly won't kill anyone. BUT, technically tri-color is not genetically correct when referring to a bay paint. I don't expect everyone and their mother to know this, it was just something that bugged me.


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## Mercy (Nov 24, 2012)

Muppetgirl said:


> Some people don't care to understand horsey lingo, I personally think it makes a person sound more horsey educated if they take the time to learn the correct terms, and to also recognize that different countries use different words.
> 
> In NZ if you said 'colt' you mean a male intact horse under the age of four. It becomes a stallion after the age of four, and a stud if its breeding.
> 
> Also a filly is considered a female horse under the age of four, over that age it is a mare.


I know this is a little off topic, but I just had to reply to this one.

This reminds me of chickens. I'm in the poultry 4-H, and for showmanship we have to learn all the different age and gender terms.

Pullet - a female chicken under one year old.
Hen - a female chicken over one year old.
Cockerel - a male chicken under one year old.
Cock - a male chicken over one year old.
Rooster - not an official term, but the common name for a male chicken.

It amused me so much at the last fair when people would ask, "Is that a chicken or a rooster?" (Thinking that 'chicken' meant female). Many times the answer was, "Both!", because it was a cockerel. And then we went on to explain why, and by the time we were done, they had a thoroughly confused look on their face! Oh, good times... I can't wait to do it again this year!!!


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

A rose by any other name is still a rose..... Shalom


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

^^ it's not ROSE, dba, it's "chestnut roan" ... hehehehehehehehe


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

or it could be a Rose Grey....


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

I'll have you all know... My PUREBRED PINTO ARABIAN is tri-coloured! And roaned. And rare. And you can't tell me otherwise. :evil:


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

I like to study color genetics so I too hate tricolor paint. To me tricolor paint is something made up to make a bay paint sound more special then it actually is. If a bay paint with with a white pattern is tricolored then Jet who has just a star is a tricolored paint. 









Now as far as the more simple color terms I'm fine with them, when I'm talking about horses in everyday life. Most people don't study correct terms. Sometimes when people are way off I'll correct them but nicely. Or if someone is curious about a color I'll tell them about it and get more technical only if they want it. Here in Oklahoma chestnuts are sorrels infact I call chestnuts sorrels. It just what I grew up with. And there is rarely distiguishment btw paint and pintos all spotted horses are paints. My max sabino paint is a grey to almost everyone that see's him or an Appaloosa lol. And brown horses are often called black. And that's ok unless they are breeding it doesn't hurt anything. But color ignorance when breeding can be dangerous when it comes to frame and dangerous genetic defaults in the breed which is why breeders should be well educated on horse genetics. But I can honestly say the only time I talk very technically about colors in here on the forum. And I'm glad that others do the same because its very educational.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Well, he's tri-colored .. not paint. *wink*

And Jet appears to be brown.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Nope not brown he is pangre the way you tell the difference is the whitish color to the soft parts brown has orangey cinnamon coloring and actually he is technically a paint Joy his dam is registered APHA.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Ya know .. my very next lesson was going to be on pangre because I know so little about it!

Awesome.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

texasgal said:


> Ya know .. my very next lesson was going to be on pangre because I know so little about it!
> 
> Awesome.


Oh yay I'll give you more lesson! So you can see how the the soft parts are white and creamy like I said that's how you can tell difference. Also it shows more in winter and can extend down the legs as you can see on jet his black points have been lightened. In the summer he gets a light orangey copper coat which I've seen in other pangre bays and you can still see the soft parts still have the light whitish color to them.


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## Hang on Fi (Sep 22, 2007)

I called my crazy bay paint ex-mare a tri, but just for the sake of non-horsey people. You say "bay paint" to someone that has no clue and they tilt their head like a dog. You tell them a "tri-colored paint" and the light bulb comes on .


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

I think your paint is a beautiful brown hang on ;-)


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## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

My cousin has a gorgeous bay paint and we have referred to him as a tri-colored horse because he actually has 3 colors. :lol: He is probably one of the most darling horses in the world - full of spunk!

I have tried to educate myself on variations on colors but I couldn't care less about what people call colors...I use sorrel instead of chestnut. :lol: 

What they call cake though does crack me up even if I don't show it....love it when a customer calls up and asks for a fondue cake or a fawwwndawwwnntt cake. I do not ever correct them - as long as their money is green we are good to go. They are paying for me to have my shiny blood bay super coppery colored gelding and my fairly pale colored palomino with his white mane that is tinged with cornsilk color so I don't care if they know the right terms or not!!!:rofl: :rofl:


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

I agree with Peppy. That mare looks brown to me, as well, Hang on Fi.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mercy (Nov 24, 2012)

Peppy Barrel Racing said:


>


I LOVE the color on this horse!!!


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Mercy said:


> I LOVE the color on this horse!!!


Thank you! Fingers crossed it stays that color. I can't wait for him to shed out this spring.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hang on Fi (Sep 22, 2007)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> I agree with Peppy. That mare looks brown to me, as well, Hang on Fi.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A brown with black points? 

Gosh I've gotten rusty I question anything at the moment :lol:


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Hang on Fi said:


> A brown with black points?
> 
> Gosh I've gotten rusty I question anything at the moment :lol:


Brown is a mutation of bay sho they have the black points but the soft points around the belly,muzzle, and eye are a cinnamon color and notice how her black points blend into her coat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hang on Fi (Sep 22, 2007)

Peppy Barrel Racing said:


> Brown is a mutation on bay sho they have the black points but the soft points around the belly,muzzle, and eye are a cinnamon color and notice how her black points blend into her coat.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Roger  Thank you for the clarification! I've gotten rusty on things I'm embarrassed to admit with the horses. Talk about the good ol' saying "Don't use it you lose it!"  :lol:


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Hang on Fi said:


> Talk about the good ol' saying "Don't use it you lose it!"  :lol:


I had a boyfriend who tried that saying with me. :lol:


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## lovelyStory (Oct 2, 2012)

"Heck, I even gots two tri-colored leper chestnuts."
I swear to you this day, i WILL use this sentence three times today!!


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

Since this thread has been revived I will add my story.

I had a bay tobiano Spotted Saddle Horse (Dewey), and a double pattern varnish roan/blanket with spots Appaloosa (Elwood).









When people would come to see them, many would say they liked the spotted one. I had them both for some years. I thought most people were familiar with the term Appaloosa. So at first I would think they were talking about Dewey-the SSH, but no it was random. 

As time went on my response became: "The one with the big spots, or the little spots?" LOL


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## mred (Jan 7, 2015)

The term paint was being used for horses long before there was registered horses. That is were they got the word. I had a paint quarter horse. She had a good balance of brown and white. Also had black in tail and mane. Tho mane also had white going across in the middle. And she had a black ring of hair above every hoof. You can call her a bay. But I call her tri color. Either way a real pretty horse.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

I guess, technically, a bay paint would be tri-colored! Black, brown and white.... Sounds tri-colored to me!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Around here it's pretty common for a bay & white pinto to be referred to as tri-colored.


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

texasgal said:


> Do you say sorrel .. or chestnut?


 I grew up believing a sorrel was a light chestnut with a flaxen mane and tail and a chestnut was a solid "brown" with the same color mane and tail and could be very red or more brown (liver chestnut). I was reprimanded by an old cowboy who insisted that any of the light or reddish ones are sorrels regardless of the mane and tail color and only the ones I'd call liver chestnuts should be called chestnut. When I hear "brown" I think of seal brown that some people call black.


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## DreaMy (Jul 1, 2014)

I used to be really into color genes. I had a friend in elementary school who wasn't allowed to ride but loved horses so we would spend all day talking about them. That's where I learned a lot of technical stuff like the correct name for all the dressage movements, jumps, differences between cow-horse disciplines, _and_ genetics. 

So now, with certainty I could tell someone that Rocky was the chestnut tobiano and Fancy was the "strawberry" roan overo. Then again that probably wouldn't have helped anyone who hadn't been riding at the barn long enough to know the names of the horses, let alone the correct colors. And that's why the instructors at that barn would tell people "the one in the paddock with red/blue/green fence".

Another little story. My current barn we have 6 horses:
Bay appaloosa
Bay morgan x arab
Gray morgan x arab (flea bitten)
Gray arab (flea bitten)
Gray arab x qh (still dappled)
Chestnut overo paint
...and for the heck of it there used to be another horse
Chestnut sabino paint (only a tiny patch of white on her belly that you only ever saw when she rolled)

Now I'm sure if any of you fine horsemen were faced with a paddock of these horses and the descriptions above you would be able to pick the correct horse. But our barn has lots of beginners and although these horses have been fine on the ground when kids mix them up there could be some issues so we always try to give descriptions that make sense to the kids or anyone for that matter, i.e.
Bay appaloosa = dark brown with spots
Bay morgan x arab = dark brown with black
Gray morgan x arab (flea bitten) = tall "white"
Gray arab (flea bitten) = short "white"
Gray arab x qh (still dappled) = grey with some spots
Chestnut overo paint = light brown/chestnut with big spots
...and for the heck of it there used to be another horse
Chestnut sabino paint (only a tiny patch of white on her belly that you only ever saw when she rolled) = light brown/chestnut

[Side note: its not like my coach is sending out kids who have never been around horses before to catch said horse but if they switch horses and don't know the names yet this is helpful]


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## DreaMy (Jul 1, 2014)

Textan49 said:


> I grew up believing a sorrel was a light chestnut with a flaxen mane and tail and a chestnut was a solid "brown" with the same color mane and tail and could be very red or more brown (liver chestnut). I was reprimanded by an old cowboy who insisted that any of the light or reddish ones are sorrels regardless of the mane and tail color and only the ones I'd call liver chestnuts should be called chestnut. When I hear "brown" I think of seal brown that some people call black.


Growing up I always heard that chestnut was an "english term" and sorrel was a "cowboy term"


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

texasgal said:


> ^^ it's not ROSE, dba, it's "chestnut roan" ... hehehehehehehehe


 is that the same as a "strawberry roan" not to be confused with "red roan" ? LOL


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

Peppy Barrel Racing said:


> Oh yay I'll give you more lesson! So you can see how the the soft parts are white and creamy like I said that's how you can tell difference. Also it shows more in winter and can extend down the legs as you can see on jet his black points have been lightened. In the summer he gets a light orangey copper coat which I've seen in other pangre bays and you can still see the soft parts still have the light whitish color to them.
> .


I'd call this horse a red dun. I think I read the term pangre long, long ago, but had nothing of importance to attach it to. I never heard the term bay paint until I opened this thread today. 

As mentioned earlier, if one is breeding for color, these terms and the genetics involved are important. For the rest of the world, we just have to make sure we catch the right horse.


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

DreaMy said:


> Growing up I always heard that chestnut was an "english term" and sorrel was a "cowboy term"


 Me too, and I also, before the paint horse registry started, remember English riders saying "Pinto" and western riders saying "Paint". Dun was the English term and Buckskin the western term


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Cordillera Cowboy said:


> I'd call this horse a red dun.


You'd be very, very wrong. A red dun is a chestnut horse with dun; so it would be 'red' all over, including the mane and tail, and the dun factor (dorsal, leg barring, etc) would be a darker red color than the rest of the body. Peppy's horse is clearly black-based (from the black mane and tail and black points). If you were trying to point that horse out in a field by calling it 'the red dun' I would have absolutely no idea which horse you'd be talking about. I'd understand if maybe you accidentally called it a bay dun (or just plain old 'dun' which usually means bay dun when people use it that way), but red dun? No way :wink:

This is a classic red dun:


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

Excuse me, but I'm puzzled about a couple of things. First, how can you possibly have a bay paint? Bay is sorta reddish brown with black mane & tail, possibly white socks & star/blace on face. Paint has black/brown and white splotches. Seems like any particular horse has to be either one or the other (or of course some other color entirely), not both.

Second, what on Earth do the particular genetic factors that produce colors have to do with what color we say horse is when we look at it? Do you think everyone carries DNA test kits, and uses them instead of their eyes?


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

verona1016 said:


> You'd be very, very wrong. A red dun is a chestnut horse with dun; so it would be 'red' all over, including the mane and tail, and the dun factor (dorsal, leg barring, etc) would be a darker red color than the rest of the body. Peppy's horse is clearly black-based (from the black mane and tail and black points). If you were trying to point that horse out in a field by calling it 'the red dun' I would have absolutely no idea which horse you'd be talking about. I'd understand if maybe you accidentally called it a bay dun (or just plain old 'dun' which usually means bay dun when people use it that way), but red dun? No way :wink:
> 
> This is a classic red dun:


I've been wrong before. I actually get lots of practice at it lol. And your photo is another first for me, compliments of this thread. I've never seen a horse colored like that. 

I'm not a breeder, nor affiliated with any breed associations, so I tend to be rather simplistic with my color descriptions. To me, a dun is simply a buckskin colored horse without the dorsal stripe. The black points may or may not be very pronounced or even present. 

I was also brought up to call any reddish horse with reddish mane & tail a sorrel. Chestnuts were the reddish ones with lighter mane and tail. Opposite from what the consensus in Horse Forum seems to be. 

If I call a horse a tri-color and someone insists that no, it's a bay paint, I'd likely just smile and say "that's nice". You're welcome to do the same with me.


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## CA VA shooter (Feb 4, 2015)

I have heard people talk about their Arabian Paint before, which I nothing about Arabians other than I don't really care for them, but these people got all upset when I told them it can't be a paint it would be a pinto. They couldn't grasp that to be a Paint horse it has to be QH or TB. I gave up trying to explain.

I have had people point out my Paint horses markings and ask me where I found the Tri-Color, (he is a bay paint, but has a huge black marking on him as well) I just laugh and tell them the salvage yard. Some people ask me what I would call him, referring to the markings, I always just answer with "I call him Huey" and leave it at that. I can't ride color and his color doesn't make him perform better so I don't really care what he is, he is reg bay/white paint as that is what he is.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

jamesqf said:


> Excuse me, but I'm puzzled about a couple of things. First, how can you possibly have a bay paint? Bay is sorta reddish brown with black mane & tail, possibly white socks & star/blace on face. Paint has black/brown and white splotches. Seems like any particular horse has to be either one or the other (or of course some other color entirely), not both.


My mare is a bay paint. You can't see the dark socks, but she has dark hocks, black around her ears and a black mane and tail. You can have any color paint, bay, black, chestnut, palomino, etc. 




_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

SlideStop said:


> My mare is a bay paint. You can't see the dark socks, but she has dark hocks, black around her ears and a black mane and tail. You can have any color paint, bay, black, chestnut, palomino, etc.


Nope. If I was pointing her out in a field, I'd say she's a paint or pinto, pure and simple. Bay is a solid body color: having the white body spots makes her not a bay. Same with the other colors.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

CA VA shooter said:


> I have heard people talk about their Arabian Paint before, which I nothing about Arabians other than I don't really care for them, but these people got all upset when I told them it can't be a paint it would be a pinto. *They couldn't grasp that to be a Paint horse it has to be QH or TB. I gave up trying to explain.
> *
> I have had people point out my Paint horses markings and ask me where I found the Tri-Color, (he is a bay paint, but has a huge black marking on him as well) I just laugh and tell them the salvage yard. Some people ask me what I would call him, referring to the markings, I always just answer with "I call him Huey" and leave it at that. I can't ride color and his color doesn't make him perform better so I don't really care what he is, he is reg bay/white paint as that is what he is.


Its my understanding that pure QH & TB horses were only allowed in to the Paint registration since 2012 - its only those breeds mixed with a registered paint that are eligible which seems odd - why those breeds and no other?


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

jamesqf said:


> Excuse me, but I'm puzzled about a couple of things. First, how can you possibly have a bay paint? Bay is sorta reddish brown with black mane & tail, possibly white socks & star/blace on face. Paint has black/brown and white splotches. Seems like any particular horse has to be either one or the other (or of course some other color entirely), not both.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## CA VA shooter (Feb 4, 2015)

Every Paint I have ever owned is mix of QH/TB and I remember first learning of the breed specifics when I was a child competing in rodeo queen pageants, even then we were questioned on what could a be a Paint horse. This was in the early 90's and we were always told the easiest way to explain what a Paint was is that it is a QH or TB and has white above the knee that is a Paint "marking", blazes and stars on foreheads excluded. 

When someone says they have a bay/paint, yes they know their horse is a paint, but they are defined on their registrations by what the color is. My horse should actually be sorrel/paint as that is primary color, but I think the prior owners didn't care either and just put bay. If I am looking for a black and white paint horse and you have one for sale just listed as "Paint" horse I am sure going to ask you what color he is, if he isn't black and white then I wouldn't want him (yes I have been in this situation when I needed to matching horses for a show.) APHA registration papers list color and Pattern so horses read as Color: Bay, Pattern: Tobiano. So yes people have a Bay Paint horse. There are horses out there that are paints that look solid bay or whatever but have a hidden white spot under their bellies or something and if they meet breed requirements then yes they can be APHA registered. 

If you were to go to my families place and ask for the "Paint" horse you are going to get a funny look and be asked which one? If you say the palomino paint, the black paint, bay paint, etc. they will know which one you refer to and will go get it as the are all different colors. At my personal place I only have one paint so yes there he is just the "Paint" to everyone. When we are with my families horses he is back to being the "Sorrel Paint with one blue eye".


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I thought that the original colour came from horses (of colour) left behind by the Spanish?
All TB's trace back to the Godolphin Arabian, Darley Arabian & the Byerly Turk and a coloured pure TB was pretty much unheard of


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

jaydee said:


> Its my understanding that pure QH & TB horses were only allowed in to the Paint registration since 2012...


(Sigh) If I see a horse in a field, do I know or care what its parents were? Same if I ride him - and in fact the horse I ride nowadays is a mustang, so I have no clue.

Makes me shudder to think of encountering the Horse Gestapo: "Your papers, mach schnell!"


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## CA VA shooter (Feb 4, 2015)

jamesqf, 

I believe people are asking about clarification about what a Paint Horse is. No one is questioning quality of breed, just definition thereof. 

I personally only care about papers and bloodlines when it comes to my one brood mare. My Paint has decent bloodlines from what I hear, I don't pay attention the Paint horse lines, but he is a hot mess of poor conformation and crappy feet. High maintenance diva!!!

Some of the best horses I have ever ridden have been no name backyard ponies and the owners would never sell. 

If you don't care about the papers, then kudos to you, I agree with you that that the papers don't make a good horse, but a lot of people show and for some breeders showing their horses and establishing their reputation is huge, and all of the above definitions and technicalities are a big deal to them so don't knock it. We each have our own path and I don't see either as wrong. 

As some breeders make more money on one horse than I make all year, I really am not going to argue or be bothered by them if they want to tell me about their tri-color red dun tobiano paint horse that is all awesome and perfect and poops rainbows and marshmellows. How on earth could this possibly be so upsetting to someone? 

I will just continue to call my giant hay burner "Huey"


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

the reason only tbs and qh can be registered as paints is because they are the founding breeds that started the paint horses.


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## DreaMy (Jul 1, 2014)

But arabs technically are the founding breeds of thoroughbreds _and therefore_ quarter horses. :wink:

But I'm biased. Arabs are awesome.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

KigerQueen said:


> the reason only tbs and qh can be registered as paints is because they are the founding breeds that started the paint horses.


Though I can see how those breeds were the ones crossed with the original coloured horses to get the Paint horse I don't understand why if they're now classed as a breed its still allowed to cross back with a TB or QH
Most of the British native ponies have Arabian blood in them but if you crossed one with an Arabian now it would be only classed as a part bred


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

dont quote me on this, but i think when the qh association started not registering horses with excessive white they started the paint horse association. since tbs could cross into qhs they did the same for paints. now they can cross to qhs because they basically are qhs (same old lines too) with just more color.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

It is an old term for these horses coloration. As is the use of the word calico to describe horses that we now call pinto.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

The APHA was formed because colored stock horses kept cropping up. They were considered crop-outs, but because a lot of them had good/desirable bloodlines, the stock horse people decided to create their own registry to preserve those bloodlines. To preserve the stock horse type, they allowed crossings back to QHs (technically their foundation breed) and TBs (who were instrumental in the development of the QH).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

jaydee said:


> Though I can see how those breeds were the ones crossed with the original coloured horses to get the Paint horse I don't understand why if they're now classed as a breed its still allowed to cross back with a TB or QH
> Most of the British native ponies have Arabian blood in them but if you crossed one with an Arabian now it would be only classed as a part bred


 I only remember the criteria for registering Paints that pertained to us around 1970. We were able to register a nice grey Pinto/Paint mare on her looks and conformation alone. However nice the mare was, she was a mongrel. She was bred to our TB stallion and produced three nicely colored registered foals. I have no idea for how long that was possible or what has changed in the rules since. 

I do understand the need for this when a breed registry is forming, but where should it stop? My understanding was that a paint horse was supposed to be "stock horse" type, so if we continue adding TB we move away from that type. I have seen many registered Paints with TB conformation and a lot of them are solid colored. 

I might be off track with my thinking about this. There will always be some variation of type within a breed but I feel that a pure bred horse should be recognizable of it's breed


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

CA VA shooter said:


> I believe people are asking about clarification about what a Paint Horse is. No one is questioning quality of breed, just definition thereof.


That wasn't the impression I got. I thought it was more some people insisting on language/breed snobbery - like the way certain people get their knickers in a twist if you say a particular horse is white.


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

Not everyone uses textbook terminology. If you call a bay horse brown, you're not wrong. His fur is indeed brown. :icon_rolleyes:


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Textan49 said:


> I might be off track with my thinking about this. There will always be some variation of type within a breed but I feel that a pure bred horse should be recognizable of it's breed


 No I don't think it is off track - after all most pure breeds are easily recognizable and that should be how it is. As far as I can see with allowing all the crossing the Paint horse is going to look like a pure TB, a pure QH or an Appendix with no real identifiable characteristics other than the colouring

I don't see why the 'fuss' about getting technical/genetic in a thread that was began as an objection to the use of 'tri-colour' 
You can call a horse whatever you like though - the Irish Connemara Stud Book will still register a pony as 'Dun' even though it is now genetically a "buckskin' because the word dun was originally from versions of old English, welsh, Irish, saxon, scots words meaning 'dingy brown, brownish black, pale yellow, ash grey, bark coloured, dark red plus others and they don't feel that they should change it to suit the new genetic trends


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

_What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet.
_

Unless you are breeding or trying to register something it doesn't matter. For years the USTA just used brown on all their brown horses. Could have been chestnut to near black. They called it brown. 

Plants are the thing I get a little nerdy about. The common names may apply to a host of unrelated plants so I use the latin designation. A horse is still a horse. A daisy or lily might be something totally different with totally different requirements.


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## WildAtHeart (Jul 17, 2013)

My bay with socks is tri-colored. Then when she rolls in the mud and has two shades of brown she is... QUAD-COLOURED 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

WildAtHeart said:


> My bay with socks is tri-colored. Then when she rolls in the mud and has two shades of brown she is... QUAD-COLOURED
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That is exactly where the issue lies with those of us who are bothered by the term "tri-color." Technically, any bay, brown or buckskin with white markings (even a tiny star or a sock) is "tri-colored." Where is the line drawn? Exactly what percentage of white does the horse have to have to be considered "tri-color" versus just a plain bay/brown/buckskin with white markings? Does that apply to overos with minimal white, as well? And for those saying "It's easier for non-horse people"...ok, but again, where is the line drawn between bay/brown/buckskin with white markings and "tri-color"? Why isn't using the same descriptors for both versions, just adding "the one with a lot of white" for the paint/pinto, not as easy/valid?

And yes, WildAtHeart, I know you were being facetious. ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BreezylBeezyl (Mar 25, 2014)

I guess if I were going to re-write the book on horse colors, it would go something like this:

Chapter 1: Solid Coats
Chapter 2: Pointed Coats 
Chapter 3: Pinto Coats
Chapter 4: Spotted Coats

...and so on and so forth. Solid Coats being derived from the two or the three main base coats, chestnut and grey. Then, anything derived from the other main base coat, bay, would be under a Pointed Coats. Buckskin is an example of a Pointed Coat under the Bay gene. Pointed, because these colors have black points on them.

I personally don't really care too much about the whole "tri" color debate. I'm not going to correct a person who calls say a tobiano tri-colored. I mean, TECHNICALLY speaking they are indeed tri colored: bay (brown and black) and then white. Three colors.

I do see everyone's point though, since Bay is considered a single coat color by the horse world. But when you look at it, it's really not. It's two colors acting on a single coat. A bay is always brown with black points, otherwise it is not a bay. 

I think people are just "counting the colors" and that's all fine with me. I'm not too particular myself.

FYI, I would still classify white markings (socks, stockings, snips, blazes, etc) as markings. For me that is where the line would be drawn: other markings acting on any of the "base" coat patterns.


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## Kotori (Jun 18, 2012)

Tri-color bothers me a bit when used, just because it isn't immediately clear what color the horse actually is. Everyone commenting about how they use tri-color has intentionally said 'bay tri-color' or similar. 

Put another way, you're handed a halter and told to get the tri-color out of the pasture. Turn to the pasture, and there is a bay pinto, a buckskin pinto, and a flaxen chestnut pinto. Which one do you grab?


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

I'd grab the bay pinto because that's what I'm used to bay pintos being called. If everyone wants to get all technical I could call my sorrel & white paints tri-colored because they always have green on them somewhere.


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## WildAtHeart (Jul 17, 2013)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> And yes, WildAtHeart, I know you were being facetious. ;-)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank heavens! I was a little worried until I got to that part 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

To make things even more confusing. In the UK we have piebald (black and white) and skewbald (any other colour/colours) and white plus Paints (that are registered as such under the APHA)


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

JCnGrace said:


> I'd grab the bay pinto because that's what I'm used to bay pintos being called. If everyone wants to get all technical I could call my sorrel & white paints tri-colored because they always have green on them somewhere.


But we're not talking about horse people, here. The argument was that non-horse people would find "tri-color" easier to understand. Put a buckskin, brown or bay paint in front of a non-horse person and tell them to pick the "tri-color."

My boyfriend and I had this discussion last night on our way home. There is a property we pass that has several horses, including a bay paint and a buckskin paint. I asked him to pull over so I could teach him about horse colors (he wants a horse). He's about a non-horsey as they get. So, just for grins and giggles, I asked him to pick out the "tri-color paint" (he knows what a paint/pinto is because I own one). He gave me a confused look and said "Which one? There's two that I see." So I had him point out the two he meant. He immediately pointed to the bay paint and buckskin paint and said "There's that red one with the black tail and the tan one with the black legs" (the buckskin was less than 50% white and his white was concentrated on his body and head, not his legs, so his black legs were clearly visible). 

Now, if you're talking about the only bay/brown/buckskin paint in the field, of course it isn't a problem. 

I have no problem using "tri-color" when talking to non-horse people. My issue lies when someone argues vehemently that their very much bay (or brown or buckskin) paint is NOT a bay/brown/buckskin paint, but a tri-color because apparently saying bay/brown/buckskin paint isn't "special" enough for their horsey (and yes, I have seen that argument before).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> But we're not talking about horse people, here. The argument was that non-horse people would find "tri-color" easier to understand.


Not just non-horse people. There are at least some (me, for one) horse people who wouldn't have a clue, and wouldn't care if they did. Seems like a lot of it is people who need a registry or something to make their horse seem 'special'.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

jamesqf said:


> Seems like a lot of it is people who need a registry or something to make their horse seem 'special'.


You seem to have a lot of hate toward registries. Why is that? Don't get me wrong. My horse isn't registered and never will be, but I still understand and appreciate the function that registries serve.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> But we're not talking about horse people, here. The argument was that non-horse people would find "tri-color" easier to understand. Put a buckskin, brown or bay paint in front of a non-horse person and tell them to pick the "tri-color."
> 
> My boyfriend and I had this discussion last night on our way home. There is a property we pass that has several horses, including a bay paint and a buckskin paint. I asked him to pull over so I could teach him about horse colors (he wants a horse). He's about a non-horsey as they get. So, just for grins and giggles, I asked him to pick out the "tri-color paint" (he knows what a paint/pinto is because I own one). He gave me a confused look and said "Which one? There's two that I see." So I had him point out the two he meant. He immediately pointed to the bay paint and buckskin paint and said "There's that red one with the black tail and the tan one with the black legs" (the buckskin was less than 50% white and his white was concentrated on his body and head, not his legs, so his black legs were clearly visible).
> 
> ...


 Oh heck Drafty, you can never convince anyone differently when they think their horse is a special color or has special markings. I had a lady tell me once that they raised shadow paints. I asked her if she meant frame overos that had dark skin showing around the edges of the white patches. She said no, they aren't overos or tobianos they're just shadow paints. I still don't know what the heck a shadow paint is and that's been years ago.:icon_rolleyes: I've learned just to say, oh okay and go about my merry way because it's a waste of time trying to get them to see the truth of the matter.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> The APHA was formed because colored stock horses kept cropping up. They were considered crop-outs, but because a lot of them had good/desirable bloodlines, the stock horse people decided to create their own registry to preserve those bloodlines. To preserve the stock horse type, they allowed crossings back to QHs (technically their foundation breed) and TBs (who were instrumental in the development of the QH).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is only partially correct. There is no, nor will there ever be, tobiano in the quarter horse breed. The APHA is actually a combination of two registries, American Paint Stock Horse Registration and the American Paint Quarter Horse Association. The latter was formed for the crop out Quarter horses, the first one was formed for painted horses of stock type. The two joined in 1965.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DreaMy (Jul 1, 2014)

JCnGrace said:


> Oh heck Drafty, you can never convince anyone differently when they think their horse is a special color or has special markings.


You mean to say Princess isn't a speshul unicorn. Even though that mark right there on her side totally looks like a heart if you squint really hard and close both eyes and imagine it? 

But seriously there are some people who will market their horse as unique or special for no other reason than to sell them at a higher price, but hey we (humans) do the same thing for many other reasons like applying to jobs (you _have_ to make yourself stand out in some way)

Heck when I was looking for a horse someone tried to sell me a 5 y.o. just broke reg. QH with merely mediocre lines for $8,000. She was a nice horse with a good head and a good start (no major issues) but was an elusive golden/buttermilk *gasp* _buckskin_.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

In all our years with Paints, I have never heard a "Paint person" around here use the term "tri-colored".

Here is our APHA bay tobiano mare, Angel...


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

I bought an AQHA registered buckskin mare. At the time I bought her - mid August, she was dark gold with black points - buckskin, right? But... her soft points are pale, the black on her legs extends up higher than her knees/hocks, and she seems to have some grey on her face that doesn't extend to her jaw. 

When I took her to the vet, the vet thought she might be grullo. 

Over the winter she was the color of the Alabama mud (aren't they all?), but this spring she's brown with a darker brown (not black) dun stripe that wasn't visible last fall.

I won't really know what color she truly is unless I pull hair and send it for genetic color testing. And I probably won't do that unless I decide to breed her. Since she has conformational flaws, and a foal wouldn't be ready to start until I'm over 60, that isn't likely either.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> You seem to have a lot of hate toward registries. Why is that?


'Hate' is a great exaggeration. It's just that I've seen what this sort of thing has done in the dog world, with dogs being bred to win shows at the expense of their health (and, for working breeds, the ability to do their job), and a lot of people thinking that a dog's not worth having unless it comes with "papers" and you pay a lot of money for it. Could you honestly say the same thing isn't starting to happen with horses?


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Started to happen?
There have been recognizable breeds of horses and ponies for years - its hardly a new phenomenon!!!
I dislike trends to overly refine breeds to the point that they actually become useless for the purpose they were once famed for - the Arabian is probably the one most affected by that but on the whole most breed registries work towards protecting the type not changing it.
Its actually very sad that some of the really old breeds are now on the endangered list
I wonder if the term 'tri-coloured' has crept into the US from the UK and the rise of forums like this one that bring countries together because its a more recognized description over there for skewbalds that have 3 colours


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

kassierae said:


> This is only partially correct. There is no, nor will there ever be, tobiano in the quarter horse breed. The APHA is actually a combination of two registries, American Paint Stock Horse Registration and the American Paint Quarter Horse Association. The latter was formed for the crop out Quarter horses, the first one was formed for painted horses of stock type. The two joined in 1965.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 That's correct, I don't see the point however of a paint foal born of two registered QHs not eligible to be a QH and have to go to another registry and now we have registered paints that are solid colored.


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

jamesqf said:


> 'Hate' is a great exaggeration. It's just that I've seen what this sort of thing has done in the dog world, with dogs being bred to win shows at the expense of their health (and, for working breeds, the ability to do their job), and a lot of people thinking that a dog's not worth having unless it comes with "papers" and you pay a lot of money for it. Could you honestly say the same thing isn't starting to happen with horses?


 I definitely see your point although I am very much in favor of breed registries for the preservation of the qualities of the different breeds. Dog breeding has created some real problems in individual breeds, such as short faced dogs bred to have shorter faces and now have breathing problems.


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## CA VA shooter (Feb 4, 2015)

jamesqf said:


> Not just non-horse people. There are at least some (me, for one) horse people who wouldn't have a clue, and wouldn't care if they did. Seems like a lot of it is people who need a registry or something to make their horse seem 'special'.


 
I don't get that impression on here at all. This forum contains horsemen/women from all levels of experience, disciplines and paths of life, which is what makes it a wonderful online community. I joined this site for this very reason and have already learned quite a few things from members that have helped me with my horses chronic crappy feet. Do I think my horses are special because they are registered? Heavens no! My horses are special to me because they are mine and we have that bond that comes with many miles in the saddle and experience together (except my hubby's horse, still can't stand him). 

I see horse owner's on here who are very proud over their horses, as they should be, whether they are registered or not. I have not read any comment on this thread that leads me to believe someone claims their horse is better because it came with a piece of paper. If you are reading that into this conversation that tells us all a little bit more about you than it does the rest of us. 

As I have said before, some of the best horses I have ridden have been no name backyard who knows what breed horses. No one on here is knocking unregistered horses. What ever hang up you have on that is something you need to deal with on your own. 

For further clarification; 

If you are looking for technical terms; I believe it still stands that a horse cannot be registered by APHA as "tri-color" which is why some say tri-color does not exist. 

For non technical; I agree tri-color does describe certain horses. I am not talking about bay paint with black mane and tail, I am talking about sorrel paint with a big black coloration on its back, side or chest. There are horses out there and it is hard to miss the three defined colors. If someone wants to describe a horse like what I mentioned as "tri-color" then what is the harm. It is what makes sense in their minds and it would get the message clear to someone they were talking to if trying to point out one horse among many. 

I never heard anyone complain about me describing my mother's horse as the stupid mule eared palomino and that's not a technical classification.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

jamesqf said:


> 'Hate' is a great exaggeration. It's just that I've seen what this sort of thing has done in the dog world, with dogs being bred to win shows at the expense of their health (and, for working breeds, the ability to do their job), and a lot of people thinking that a dog's not worth having unless it comes with "papers" and you pay a lot of money for it. Could you honestly say the same thing isn't starting to happen with horses?


It won't get that bad with horses. Most people want to ride and you can't ride a sick/weak horse. Making rules that a breed can only be certain colors is stupid, though.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

ponyboy said:


> It won't get that bad with horses. Most people want to ride and you can't ride a sick/weak horse. Making rules that a breed can only be certain colors is stupid, though.


i know someone who breeds halter horses. ill share a pic since its a sale add. i will say that the horses are NOT sound riding animals. and some halter arabians are not good riding animals ethier. so yes they already ARE breeding animals that can hardly be more than a lawn decoration.

here are pics of mostly stock halter horses. i dont see any of these animals being good riding animals.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

jaydee said:


> Started to happen?


Yes, as for example the above-mentioned halter horses. 



> There have been recognizable breeds of horses and ponies for years - its hardly a new phenomenon!!!
> I dislike trends to overly refine breeds to the point that they actually become useless for the purpose they were once famed for - the Arabian is probably the one most affected by that but on the whole most breed registries work towards protecting the type not changing it.


But I don't think you can "protect" a breed with a closed registry, because that inevitably means that you're working with a limited gene pool. Sooner or later, problems will crop up. Later, if the breed is actually used for work (including general riding) and the breeders are conscientious; sooner if you have owners with money who're buying status.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

jamesqf said:


> Yes, as for example the above-mentioned halter horses.
> 
> 
> 
> But I don't think you can "protect" a breed with a closed registry, because that inevitably means that you're working with a limited gene pool. Sooner or later, problems will crop up. Later, if the breed is actually used for work (including general riding) and the breeders are conscientious; sooner if you have owners with money who're buying status.


But then you have the problem of the unscrupulous backyard breeders who see a quick buck to be made on a popular breed, registered or not, and breed any two specimens of that breed together to make a quick buck, regardless of faults or temperament issues. 

So, which is worse: the registries who try to at least preserve something of the bloodlines and standards of the original breed or the people who just want make a fast buck on whatever is popular at the moment, regardless of what it looks like or if it's even functional?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

idk the first two pics i posted are a representation of both. said person has about 16 registerd qhs and paints, a cuple of studs and sees no issues in breeding horses with pssm or Hypp.

i think registries need to be stricter in what they alow to be registerd. i like most wormblood registries as the foals have to be graded/judged. and fresians are judged as to weather they are breeding quality. i dont see any PRE horses with whacky falts or trends because of how their registries work (not saying it dose not happen but is alot less common).


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## CA VA shooter (Feb 4, 2015)

jamesqf said:


> Yes, as for example the above-mentioned halter horses.
> 
> 
> 
> But I don't think you can "protect" a breed with a closed registry, because that inevitably means that you're working with a limited gene pool. Sooner or later, problems will crop up. Later, if the breed is actually used for work (including general riding) and the breeders are conscientious; sooner if you have owners with money who're buying status.


 
You can protect a breed through the registrations. I remember when there was a lot of overbreeding for Impressive bloodlines, then it became known about the gene HYPP that goes along with the Impressive bloodlines. There are now rules and restrictions about registering horses who carry this genetic abnormality. Same precautions have been taken for Poco Bueno bloodlines and the HERDA gene. These rules are in place to discourage irresponsible breeders from breeding without concern for health issues. 

From the AQHA Rulebook;

"AQHA will test any foals who are required to be parentage verified and who trace to IMPRESSIVE for HYPP prior to them being registered. This testing will be performed with the same DNA sample submitted to the laboratory for parentage verification."

"Beginning with the 2007 foals, all Impressive progeny are required to be parentage verified and HYPP tested subject to the conditions listed in rule 205. Any that test H/H will not be eligible for registration."

As for QH, if you have a QH that is born with a pinto(paint) pattern it can be registered with AQHA if it meets the parentage rules. However; a QH horse with white above the knee that is considered a "paint" type marking is considered "undesirable white" which is why people go to the APHA where it is desirable.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

There are breed registry's and there are breed registry's
Kiger Queen gave a very good example of where they can go badly wrong - but the problem with both of those is that the Registries have failed to protect the true stamp of the breeds and instead gone off on some weird idealistic venture to produce a horse that they think looks wonderful but is in truth a travesty and far removed from the original QH 
That is less to do with inbreeding and a small gene pool but a lot to do with breeding for specific things like smaller and smaller heads or bigger and bigger quarters


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> So, which is worse: the registries who try to at least preserve something of the bloodlines and standards of the original breed or the people who just want make a fast buck on whatever is popular at the moment, regardless of what it looks like or if it's even functional?


Personally, I think the registries are worse. It's that closed gene pool thing again. Certainly with dogs (and I think with humans, too), your average mutt is going to be healthier, stronger, and smarter than most pedigreed show dogs. While I don't have that much experience with horses, the two I've owned are mutts (Anglo-Arab and Appendix QH), and the one I ride now is a mustang. All perfectly good horses, who I much prefer to my neighbor's pedigreed, imported from Europe show horses.

But tell me, which is the more unscrupulous: the backyard breeder who makes a few hundred bucks on a 'mutt', or a line breeder who sells inbred 'pedigreed' animals for 10 or 20 times the price, or more?


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

The pedigreed imported European show horses are I assume Warmbloods - which are 'mutts' in comparison to very old breeds like the Exmoor, Caspian, British Shetland which have stayed very true to type


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## CA VA shooter (Feb 4, 2015)

jaydee said:


> There are breed registry's and there are breed registry's
> Kiger Queen gave a very good example of where they can go badly wrong - but the problem with both of those is that the Registries have failed to protect the true stamp of the breeds and instead gone off on some weird idealistic venture to produce a horse that they think looks wonderful but is in truth a travesty and far removed from the original QH
> That is less to do with inbreeding and a small gene pool but a lot to do with breeding for specific things like smaller and smaller heads or bigger and bigger quarters


You are so right! My paint I am always complaining about is the perfect example. The breeders goal was color and size, which they succeeded at, he is big and flashy. He also is thin souled, brittle toes, sugar sensitive, imho a little too upright on conformation so I have some high maintenance hooves on my hands. He is worth the work as he performs wonderfully and is just a big puppy personality wise, but it is so sad that he is in pain if he doesn't get he feet taken care of constantly. In the wild he would have been bear poop in the cycle of life a long time ago. Some breeders are not responsible breeders no matter what, but this goes to the buyers as well. If people weren't buying and wanting these horses the breeders would have to stop breeding for these traits. If there is a market for this then they will breed for it. I agree that it would be nice if the shows associated 
with these bad traits would set rules that would discourage genetic flaws like little feet, thin boned legs and such.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Buyers really do dictate fashion - at least if the breed registry is strict and rejects animals that start to stray into the 'fantasy horse' realms there would be some control
One of the worst examples in the UK were the 'mutts' bred for the riding horse show ring that had the big powerful bodies that looked impressive, small refined heads and dainty fine legs and feet. Unfortunately those legs & hooves couldn't support their own weight let alone a heavier rider so you ended up with 16.2+ hand horses that could only be ridden by petite lightweight people 
Fortunately that craze seems to have on the whole disappeared


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

i think registries need to be stricter in what they alow to be registerd. i like most wormblood registries as the foals have to be graded/judged. and fresians are judged as to weather they are breeding quality. i dont see any PRE horses with whacky falts or trends because of how their registries work (not saying it dose not happen but is alot less common).[/QUOTE]

I think all registered breeding stock should be inspected and only the offspring of inspected parents allowed to be registered. Then I might be impressed if someone says their horse is registered


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

KigerQueen said:


> i know someone who breeds halter horses. ill share a pic since its a sale add. i will say that the horses are NOT sound riding animals. and some halter arabians are not good riding animals ethier. so yes they already ARE breeding animals that can hardly be more than a lawn decoration.


Those are halter horses. I meant it won't get that way with all horses. 

But comparing halter horses to regular horses is the perfect illustration of why dog showing is bad. The problem isn't as obvious in the dog world because so many breeds have lost their jobs and can't be compared to a "working" type. With horses you can make that comparison.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

take a look at the horses in western pleasure. they are bred to move like they are 3 legged lame. they also look like if the trip they are going to dig their face into the ground so heard they might be unable to pull it out of the hole. its more then just halter. 
the legs on the qhs is NOT the legs of a working horse. and same with tbs their legs are so thin they have many issues. or the crappy hooves i both breeds.
if it wins they will breed it. alot of these show bred horses are a train wreck.


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

At the risk of offending anyone who shows Western Pleasure, I totally agree. I hate the way they move and they are not able to do much of anything else. I also hate the way most of the halter horses look, to say nothing about the fact that some of them can't do anything. The show bred horses have just gone to the extreme. If a little of something is good than more of it is better and nobody cares about the rest. To me, a breed should have a type that is also functional so ideally what is considered halter quality should also be able to compete in performance. At least with dogs there are some that have earned conformation titles and working titles such as obedience or agility.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Just like with any purebred, you have the ones bred for show and the ones bred for work. 

For all her many confo faults, my best friend's AQHA mare is bred to work. She would probably make a stellar rope horse and she's not a half-bad barrel horse. Despite her sickle hocks, buck knees, long back and upright shoulder, she is the kind of horse that if she were in a ramuda, she'd be one of the first ones picked every time. She may not do well in any halter class, but put her in a ranch horse class and I bet she'd be in the ribbons every time. She's a granddaughter of a local legend, Scottish Bart, who produced nothing but performance/working horses. She's a sound, usable horse who happens to be registered and have a nice pedigree. If I wasn't worried she'd pass on some of her more grievous faults, I would do a breeding lease on her from my best friend to get a foal out of her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

Textan49 said:


> At least with dogs there are some that have earned conformation titles and working titles such as obedience or agility.


But even there, many of those competitions don't allow your dog to be entered unless it's got a purebred pedigree. So if your mutt happens to be a superlative bird dog, for instance, too bad.

I think the same is true for a lot of horse competitions. Suppose your backyard-bred horse-mutt just happened to turn out to be the fastest horse in the world: could you enter it in the Kentucky Derby?


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Racing under rules is confined to registered TB's but a horse of any breed can enter in showjumping, dressage, eventing, hunter/jumper, certainly all UK showclasses that are judged by type/suitability and not breed classes, gymkhana, and many more I'm sure


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

jaydee said:


> Racing under rules is confined to registered TB's but a horse of any breed can enter in showjumping, dressage, eventing, hunter/jumper, certainly all UK showclasses that are judged by type/suitability and not breed classes, gymkhana, and many more I'm sure


Absolutely. As long as the horse has the ability, (also needs the confirmation to have the ability) there are a lot of classes for horses of mixed and unknown breeding. Jumping and barrel racing would be good examples of just getting the job done. Classes like working hunter require a certain "style" of movement but if the horse has it, he can do well regardless of breeding


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

KigerQueen said:


> its more then just halter.


Yup, showing is bad, no matter the discipline.


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

ponyboy said:


> Yup, showing is bad, no matter the discipline.


I don't believe that the theory behind having confirmation or performance showing is bad at all. it could be a means for improvement of the animals themselves and also our training ability. Unfortunately it doesn't always happen that way


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

I don't get it.

If we are saying that a bay paint != tri-colored horse, then what is the distinction between the two? Basically, what would make someone call one horse a bay paint instead of tricolored?

Or is this a distinction without a difference?


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

Bay defines color; Paint defines registry. There is also "pinto" which is a horse of two body colors, one being white, with the mane and tail carrying some of the darker body color.

Tri-color is just any two-color horse with black in the mane. 

Example: I had a Buckskin (color) Paint (registry) filly. She could also be called a buckskin pinto. She was not a bay, but she is a tri-color.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

But if buckskin paint described her just fine, why call her tri-color as well? It's an unnecessary term.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> But if buckskin paint described her just fine, why call her tri-color as well? It's an unnecessary term.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Which was, I believe, the original rant that started this whole thread! 

I never called her tri-color. Sometimes she was a horse of a different color, as it seems all light colored horses seemed to love painting themselves green...:icon_rolleyes: Sometimes I called her a ... skip that. G-rated forum. :racing:


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Roadyy said:


> What would he be considered in your opinion?
> 
> And I don't mean the idiot ex S-I-L barefoot next to him..lol
> 
> View attachment 139826


Chocolate pinto

But I have the advantage of actually seeing this horse...


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> But if buckskin paint described her just fine, why call her tri-color as well? It's an unnecessary term.


Maybe because about 99% of non-horse people wouldn't have a clue as to what a 'buckskin paint' is? Heck, I'm not absolutely positive myself  The point of language is communication, isn't it? If you say "that 3-colored horse over there", just about anyone will know which you mean.


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## CA VA shooter (Feb 4, 2015)

DancingArabian said:


> I don't get it.
> 
> If we are saying that a bay paint != tri-colored horse, then what is the distinction between the two? Basically, what would make someone call one horse a bay paint instead of tricolored?
> 
> Or is this a distinction without a difference?


 
This has been covered in many prior posts. I think we are just beating a dead horse now. Next topic....


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

jamesqf said:


> Maybe because about 99% of non-horse people wouldn't have a clue as to what a 'buckskin paint' is? Heck, I'm not absolutely positive myself  The point of language is communication, isn't it? If you say "that 3-colored horse over there", just about anyone will know which you mean.


Buckskin paint...take a buckskin, add white patches. Voila.
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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

kassierae said:


> Buckskin paint...take a buckskin...


OK. Now, for the non-horse person, what's a buckskin?


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

Cream/buff colored horse with black legs and hair. Not difficult to explain horse colors to non horse people, I do it daily. I'm the only person in my circle of friends with horses. At our place we have two red pinto, a solid red, a bay, a grey, two solid blacks, a silver black, and two black pintos. We have had every color on our property except for anything champagne. And plenty of non horse people visit our house on a regular basis. Never had a mix up.
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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

jamesqf said:


> Maybe because about 99% of non-horse people wouldn't have a clue as to what a 'buckskin paint' is? Heck, I'm not absolutely positive myself  The point of language is communication, isn't it? If you say "that 3-colored horse over there", just about anyone will know which you mean.


For most people, I describe my horses as the white one, the yellow one, and the brown one...just sold a big really dark almost black horse. 


For horse people, I own a 14.2h 19yr old dark palomino AQHA mare, a 15h 24yr old grey grade Arab/paint gelding, and a 14.3h 7 yr old chocolate RMHA gelding. 

Just sold a 16.1h 10 yr old black-bay grade appendix QH gelding. 

Never owned a tri-color paint, but have heard that term my entire life and would use it if I owned one.


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

Personally I have never used, and, until coming here, never heard the term tri color when referring to a horse. It is bay and white, buckskin and white, etc. 

If I was talking a non horse person I call the horse the color they will understand, I would say tan for a buckskin (tan and white if it's a pinto), red (or brown depending on the shade) with black legs for a bay, white for a horse that has completely grayed. My perlino I'd call white. If they seem interested (as they sometimes are with the perlino, I assume because it's a less common color) I'll go a little more into detail about his actual color otherwise I see no reason to.

With horse people I expect them to know the colors, the more common ones at least (bay,gray,black,sorrel/chestnut,palomino,buckskin,etc.) If I heard someone refer to one as a tri color I would assume they were not educated on horse terminology (and there fore most likely not a horse person). Although after being here I may just assume they are not from around here.


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