# Western Saddles



## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

I have a dilemma, I'm a size 14 and do best in a 17" saddle, but my arab is short backed.
What kind of saddle would be a good choice for us.
My saddle fitter is good, but she is pretty blunt.
She likes flex trees, I do not, she thinks that I need more 'skirt area' to disperse weight better, etc. Honestly she is making me feel bad about the whole situation, but my current saddle just doesn't fit either of us anymore (we both lost weight!)
I was looking at these two saddles:
Tucker Saddles - Trail saddles and Bridle Supplies.
and 
Circle Y High Horse El Campo Gaited Saddle - Statelinetack.com


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

.

Size of Skirts has absolutely nothing to do with dispersing weight!

As far as what Saddle is good for you, both of those are decent, personal preference

Bighorn make a better Saddle in that price range, IMO

.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

The leather of the saddle does NOTHING to disperse weight. That is all done with the tree of the saddle, as that is the weight bearing part of the saddle. 

So if that is what your saddle fitter has told you ........ then you need to find a different saddle fitter because she doesn't know squat.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

SouthernTrails said:


> .
> 
> Size of Skirts has absolutely nothing to do with dispersing weight!
> 
> ...


Is it leather or synthetic?


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

spookychick13 said:


> Is it leather or synthetic?


Bighorn make a wide variety of Part Synthetic/Part Leather Models in the 700.00 range


.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

^^^ that, and also affordable all leather saddles


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Big Horn Flex Tree Butterfly Skirt Saddles

mine


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

I have a big horn leather endurance, which I love on my arab, but its more in the $1200 range. 

The problem your going to find is a 17" saddle on a short backed horse. I'm around a size 14 pant size, but in a 16" saddle(which I find works well), but I think that pretty much maxes out the western seat size I can put on my arab.

what about an aussie? no skirts to rub a short backed horses hip, so you could go up to 17" no problem.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

kind of makes me wonder how knowledgeable this saddle fitter IS. skirt does not carry weight. if theres a lot of weight on the skirt, it's a bad saddle fit.

and, size 14 is my DREAM size!

oh,. and by 17 " saddle, you meant a 17" ENGLISH saddle, right? which is a 15" western saddle.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Something to think about is that shorter isn't better with a western saddle. Almost all western saddle tree extend out on the loin. As long as they don't gouge into the horse at either end, that is OK.

A longer tree helps distribute weight over a larger area. Both my 15.2 purebred Arabian and our 3/4 Arabian "Appy" can handle a saddle that is 26.5 inches long with a rounded skirt. The larger horse could probably handle an even longer saddle, but both of my good western saddles are just under 27". They are both 16" saddles.

This is the smaller horse (14.3) without a saddle. His back is fairly short:










Both the white spots at his withers and the spur scars came with him, thanks to some idiot in Colorado. This was about a month after he arrived.

Here is my daughter using a Circle Y Mojave, 16" seat, 26.5" total length on him. My daughter's riding style drives me nuts, but Trooper worships her so it can't be all bad. The saddle pad is 30" long. Both horses have used that combo many times, and neither has ever seemed bothered by it.










I'd plan on getting a rounded skirt, and worry more about finding one the right width and with a curve that matches the horse than how long the saddle is. Good luck!


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> kind of makes me wonder how knowledgeable this saddle fitter IS. skirt does not carry weight. if theres a lot of weight on the skirt, it's a bad saddle fit.
> 
> and, size 14 is my DREAM size!
> 
> oh,. and by 17 " saddle, you meant a 17" ENGLISH saddle, right? which is a 15" western saddle.


No, 17" western, but I'm flattered.  I carry all of my weight in my butt/thighs.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

I am hoping I found the right saddle, feels great to me, Brandon seems good too:
Circle Y High Horse El Campo Gaited Saddle - Horse.com


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

.

Looks like a good fit, angle are correct, etc.


.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

IMO the saddle appears to be too long. The bars on a 17 are longer than the 15 and 16. But, do check to see where the bars are vs skirt. The bars do have to be behind the shoulder blades and shouldn't extend past the last true rib.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

These links are from a custom saddle tree maker, discussing western saddle fit:

Saddle fit - Western compared to English Part 3

Of cutlery and saddle fit...

All western saddles extend over the loin

Can the loin of the horse carry weight?


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Well had my original saddle fitter out (she had my old saddle and took it for a repair). She looked at the new one and said it didn't work. Basically said I was too heavy and it was putting too much pressure on his lower back. I'm not sure what to think...I was a little overwhelmed/shocked at the whole situation because she asked me if I was working out and 'if I was going to do something about my thighs'. 
She tried a ton of different pads on him, including my skito, a diamondback wool, a weaver contour.

I asked her to shim up my skito pad so my old saddle fit and that I was done for now. I paid her and she left. I think I am done with her, since she makes me cry every time I see her. She still kept saying that the el campo (new saddle) needed more skirt to disperse my weight.

However there were more sweat marks at the back of the saddle pad, so I am at a loss. *I* prefer the el campo 100%, and my horse didn't act uncomfortable.


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

.

Is this the saddle fitter who said the skirts support the saddle? :lol::lol:

Sorry, but I would not put a lot of faith in her.

Can you provide some pics with your Horses sweat mark ?


.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

I will get pictures next time, I honestly just wanted to go home.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

What can I do to take some of the pressure off the back?


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Your saddle fitter sounds like the southern end of a north-bound horse. Here is some information you might want to consider, however:

The El Campo is a gaited saddle, using a gaited saddle tree. Here is a good summary of what that means:_"Typical features of a gaited horse saddle include:_​_A saddle tree with gaited bars. These bars are set slightly narrower than quarter horse bars and have more flare at the front to minimize interference with shoulder action. The bars are also shorter so as not to interfere with the action of the hind legs._

_ The skirts are shorter to allow for the action of the hind legs._

_ The gullet is higher to allow for the typically higher withers of the high-stepping gaited breeds. The gullet is also wider at the front than at the back to allow for the bigger shoulder movement._

_ The saddle sits the rider further back on the horse to further free up the horse's shoulders to perform the high-stepping gaits._"​Read more: Gaited Horse Saddle

That is neither all good or all bad. However, a more balanced saddle tree might distribute your weight more to the front of the horse, which can help with a short backed horse. However, the flare may allow you to place the saddle a bit further forward than other saddles and still have the shoulder slide beneath the tree.

If your budget allows, you could try the "Fit-To-Be-Seen" program at Steele Saddle Tree:

Steele Saddle Tree LLC - Fit To The Horse

Here is the form they sent me to try on Mia:








​ 
I sent them the pictures (about 20), and they have recommended trying a different tree:"_We need to try the LF. It is available only in a fit ‘tree’ as reference in Jane’s email to you of 4/10 (below)._

_Just let me know how you would like to proceed. You may return the fit form for credit against the fit tree, or we can bill for the tree and you can ship everything back together for credit or refund. The latter method would save you a bit on shipping costs._" - personal email​My budget has forced me to put things on hold, at least for now. I will say the folks at Steele have been nice to work with. If I compare the form above to my current two saddles, it is an identical fit to my Circle Y Mojave saddle, the one I showed earlier on Trooper. My daughter loves it, but it does not fit me well.

It is not as close a match on my used Martin saddle. The Martin has a slightly flatter tree. The nice thing about the fiberglass forms is you can put it up against the bottom of the saddle and see with your eyeballs how close the fit is.

Right now, I'm riding Mia in the Martin. I've followed some advice from HF members and gone with a THINNER pad, because I think overpadding led to the saddle slip I had in March ( http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding/my-first-emergency-dismount-mia-while-377705/#post4940497 ). She moves well in it, but I'd really like to work further with Steele and try their other tree. If I can find one that matches her back well, then I could order a "custom" saddle from someone like Dakota using the tree that fits Mia best.

I might also go with their "D" tree, since it fits better than the saddle I'm using, but is also one of their 9 'standard' saddle trees - which might give me more options if I try to use it with another horse some day.

For fitting a western saddle, I think the Steele program is vastly better than hiring a 'saddle fitter', because it is hard to see how the tree is distributing weight once the saddle is built and sitting on the horse. With the bare forms, even an idiot can see - and as a bonus, Ed Steele is willing to look at pictures and give his opinion as a pro! I don't know of a better way to see how a given western saddle actually fits on a horse.

It may or may not be possible, once one knows which tree fits best at Steele, to talk about it with a custom saddle maker who doesn't use Steele trees and get a tree that is a close match to the Steele tree.

However, the folks using Steele trees include Big Horn, Crates, Dakota, Dixieland, Fabtron, Rocking R and others, so I won't be locked in to one supplier if I do go with a particular Steele tree.

I'm sorry for what you are going through. It is tough when you want to do right by your horse, but there are so many conflicting pieces of advice - particularly when some of the advice comes from some rude sources. I wish you luck, however you proceed.


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

spookychick13 said:


> What can I do to take some of the pressure off the back?


From the Skirts :lol::lol: or the bars?

Unless the saddle is bridging I do not think there is too much pressure on the lower back, I do not see in the pics where the bars would be on top of the floating ribs.


.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

I will post sweat marks tomorrow.
The lady who sold me the El Campo (who was lovely, by the way) thought a gaited tree would be good for him to free up his shoulders, she liked how the curved tree 'spooned' his back, etc.

The OTHER fitter kept sticking her hand in the back and saying it was pressing on his lower back.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Put a clean sheet under the pad, here are the dirt marks:


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

^I love seeing your pics, bsms  /OffTopic


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

I ended up with a barrel saddle for my short backed horse. They have much shorter skirts than regular saddles


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

This is what the (kind) saddle fitter said, regarding the dirt marks. Also the shims she is referring to is from the pad I am using: Diamond Wool Pads - Products - Endurance-Square Contoured Relief Pads


I debated if we should have this quick conversation by phone or if you understand enough for me to just plop it in a quick email. So we'll start with this and you can call if you need clarification.

Ok, the dirty pad is nearly perfect... with one very small issue. You can see the rounded edge of the tree on the riders right side. That tells me we have too much pressure on the muscle that rolls forward and lifts the rider. It's a small thing, but I'm a bit personally vested in you two and I don't like seeing the edge of the tree pressure. So that tells me the shims just filled in that little void space his hip can roll forward into more than we like to see. Sometimes the center shim will lift the saddle enough to make that change without an issue. In his case it filled in the curve more than we want to. So, we need to shift that shim forward a bit to make the correction.

So that said, there are two options.
1. Try once again with the long center shim only. Nothing in the back pockets at all to leave that small void space intact. This will effectively lift the whole saddle up, and let it rock to the front naturally, creating the same effect but in a way that is supported and won't rock back and forth. Use the front rigging.
2. Use it without shims at all because we knew that was great, we just wanted to make a small improvement for you.

Hope that makes sense.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

The sheet tells the story of where the greatest amount of pressure is. I hate to say this as some people get pretty touchy but if you could lose perhaps 15 lbs that might be enough to put you into a smaller saddle with shorter bars. I'm inclined to agree with the saddle fitter but you seem sensitive to the truth.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Which fitter do you agree with, the one who says I am too heavy for a regular tree or the one who is telling me to reshim? Of course I am sensitive about my weight and trying to lose.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Well, according to the nice saddle fitter, this is as perfect as you can get, 10/10 for even pressure:


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## sig1946 (Dec 22, 2012)

Hi, same issue for different reasons on a large quarter. Went to a trooper saddle. Tried a Haggis, terrible. Christie worked very well. It was all about body size, too much of it. Not just the lightness of the saddle but also the less constraining fit, no heavy skirt. A lot better choice than going English. Moved on to a walker, barrel body. Same Christie Trooper, great results.


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