# I don't like this.....



## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

Why? What about it makes you turn away?

And why won't you try barrel racing, reining and vaulting? All three disciplines are very different...and they make helmets if you are worried about your head.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

What in earth makes you dislike this so much, I will admit to sampling the videos rather than watching all of them but I see nothing to make me have any sort of adverse reaction...


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## wbwks (Apr 5, 2014)

Me too, I see nothing wrong, the only disappointing thing I saw is that it was at the Appaloosa nationals and I only saw one nicely colored appy.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

It's very odd. the riders have their hands positioned very high, as if they WERE riding a Saddlebred horse. But, it's just odd, that's all

I find HUS also very odd in that they are riding a hrose that moves more adeptly for a different discipline, and trying to make it look like an English horse. it's just an odd American creation. but, not harmful or worthy of hate, just odd.


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## Bedhead (Aug 4, 2013)

It's pretty much just a novelty class. All they're doing is riding in the saddleseat fashion, it's not like they're jacking the horses heads up (which obviously stock horses are not bred to do in the same manner as the typical saddleseat breeds) or altering the horses trot. I mean, to each their own but there's nothing unsavory going on in these videos.

What exactly about it is bothering you?


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## Beling (Nov 3, 2009)

Sorry, I thought the "style" kind of comical! It's a mix of styles that actually doesn't make sense, except as pre-training for a rider who is wanting to ride the fiery Saddlebred but needs to develop confidence---so she rides a Pleasure Horse to practice. (There's certainly no straight line from the elbow to the bit, which has been an accepted standard of equitation for many, MANY years.)


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Its sort of like Saddleseat meets WP - very odd combination.
I really don't like the overly raised hands, it doesn't look at all right with the normal head carriage but I must say the horses were moving very nicely - a lot better than the exaggerated high knee action and jacked up heads you associate with Saddleseat and the slow show shuffle that's become synonymous with WP


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## SEAmom (Jan 8, 2011)

HAHAHA!!!! What a bizarre class! Did they feel left out of the saddleseat world so much that they had to make it up for themselves. Look, there's nothing distasteful, harmful, or really adverse at all other than how silly they all look. I mean, they dressed for speed (saddlesuits), loose reins on their double bridles, posting as if it's hunter under saddle, on western moving horses. It's not shameful, it's comical if anything. Oy! 

Someone somewhere is patting themselves on the back for talking appy people into buying saddleseat gear (tack and apparel) and getting into a whole new branch of the horse world. Really that's all it is. Nice marketing, though, on someone's part.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

See I was looking at the horses, and in the sampling I did they all looked relaxed, forward, the paces looked 'normal' as SEAmom says loose reins. Now if I look at the riders I wonder, high hands etc, but I was more interested in watching how the horses were going, and to me I see no issues, so LOL let the riders dress and ride how they like


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## beverleyy (Oct 26, 2011)

What the heck is this!? haha. Looks like HUS horses with saddleseat riders? Am I missing something, like this is actually a thing? 

I actually really like the HUS world. I certainly don't agree with _all_ trainers/methods, but that goes for any discipline. I know next to nothing about saddleseat, and probably something I would never do. Nothing against it, just not my style. I am much more of a hunter/HUS rider myself. But still left wondering what the heck this class is exactly lol.

OP, what do you have against this, out of curiosity?


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## SamanthaB (Jul 22, 2014)

jenkat86 said:


> Why? What about it makes you turn away?
> 
> And why won't you try barrel racing, reining and vaulting? All three disciplines are very different...and they make helmets if you are worried about your head.


It's the riders that bother me more than anything, the horses are okay although they don't appear very content with what they're doing.... It's just, something about a person riding a stock horse as if it was a high stepper, just seems very wrong in my eyes. 
I mean the whole reason saddleseat riders hold their hands up and use those bits is because their horses have high headsets, when you take a horse with a lower headset, but you still ride it in the same bit, and with the same hand position that just seems very wrong... 
The whole idea of saddleseat started out as a way to have a practical and pleasurable riding horse that still looked good while doing it, the horses were supposed to look proud, energetic, and spirited; (imo) these horses are anything but.
I guess as long as nothing is hurting them, and they're having fun its no big deal. But I still find the use of the bits with those horses questionable...

Also in regards to my head, it's not the fall that I'm worried about, more-so the spinning...
See, I had a concussion when I was 13 or 14 years old, it wasn't a result from riding a horse, or working with a horse. But it left me practically immobile for about 6 months. I have nothing against the disciplines, but they all involve some amount of spinning, and I just don't think I would be able to handle it. I get dizzy just from lunging my horse at a canter, I can't imagine what would happen if I had to do any of those disciplines.


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## kewpalace (Jul 17, 2013)

I, too, thought the riding was pretty funny but saw nothing objectionable about the horses' way of going. While it may not be a type of riding that appeals to me, I can't say there is anything wrong with it.

Out of curiosity, I looked up the rules in the ApHC for Saddle Seat Pleasure - they have one rule which does not explain the high hands ... 



> *779. SADDLE SEAT PLEASURE*
> 
> A. PERSONAL APPOINTMENTS:
> 
> ...



But rule on Saddle Seat Equitation may give a clue:



> *798. SADDLE SEAT EQUITATION*
> 
> A. Exhibitors to be judged on hands, seat and legs and on their ability to ride and control a horse properly. Hands should be held in an easy position, neither perpendicular nor horizontal to the saddle, and should show sympathy, adaptability and control.
> 
> ...


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## karliejaye (Nov 19, 2011)

What did I just see?! I'm not offended or upset per say, but I am quite confused by this. I agree with many previous posters, I don't see anything to hate. No soring, no abuse no rough riding, just a very odd thing to see.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

I think that those horses would look a lot better in a western pleasure class but I don't see anything to hate either.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

well, if they were following that rule, they'd have to lower their hands to match the head set of those horses, which is considerably lower than a typical Saddlebred.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

LoriF said:


> I think that those horses would look a lot better in a western pleasure class but I don't see anything to hate either.



some of them would look right nice in Western Dressage, too!


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## RavenwoodLily (Apr 5, 2016)

I don't understand, I see nothing wrong with those riders or horses. In fact, I was pleasantly surprised when I saw how natural the horses moved compared to some saddleseat horses. I think it is a simple combination of WP and Saddleseat, like jaydee said.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Ok, def weird, but I'm not seeing anything "bad"? (OP those are interesting disciplines to not want to try, if you're concerned about your head I can think of several things far high on the "don't do" list!! and of course, you can get hurt doing ANYTHING with a horse, like brushing)

Totally agree with wbwks lol. Am I missing something? I'm confused!


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## SamanthaB (Jul 22, 2014)

RavenwoodLily said:


> I don't understand, I see nothing wrong with those riders or horses. In fact, I was pleasantly surprised when I saw how natural the horses moved compared to some saddleseat horses. I think it is a simple combination of WP and Saddleseat, like jaydee said.


What do you mean how natural they move in comparison to some saddleseat horses?
And do you not find riding a horse with a low headset in a pelham, or full bridle with your hands up and out, a little silly (I would even call it abhorrent)? 

I guess I would argue that this isn't even saddleseat. Even though they call it that, I just can't bring myself to believe that this is the same or similar to saddleseat. It doesn't even fit the definition of saddleseat....


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## SamanthaB (Jul 22, 2014)

Yogiwick said:


> Ok, def weird, but I'm not seeing anything "bad"? (OP those are interesting disciplines to not want to try, if you're concerned about your head I can think of several things far high on the "don't do" list!! and of course, you can get hurt doing ANYTHING with a horse, like brushing)
> 
> Totally agree with wbwks lol. Am I missing something? I'm confused!


I should have clarified more, but read my second comment, I explain why. I am perfectly willing to take the risk of falling off of a horse, it's the spinning that gets to me.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Yeah I get that but if your concussion was bad enough to make "spinning" a problem this far down the road I would be worried about the consequences of a second concussion so "high risk" activities may be ill advised. Shrug. Your decision of course. /OT


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

SamanthaB said:


> What do you mean how natural they move in comparison to some saddleseat horses?
> And do you not find riding a horse with a low headset in a pelham, or full bridle with your hands up and out, a little silly (I would even call it abhorrent)?
> 
> I guess I would argue that this isn't even saddleseat. Even though they call it that, I just can't bring myself to believe that this is the same or similar to saddleseat. It doesn't even fit the definition of saddleseat....




It is not silly and certainly not abhorrent. The horses are fit and shiny. Look past what the you think and see what the judges are supposed to judge. 
From the description of the class, it is the horse being judged and not the rider. I see no where in the rules that it demands a rider ride a certain way.

If this discipline is not your thing, move along. There are obviously others that do enjoy it.


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## piglet (Oct 2, 2012)

I would never let "looking silly" get in the way of having fun with a horse.

Abhorrent? Hateful and loathsome? You think that looks hateful?


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## SamanthaB (Jul 22, 2014)

piglet said:


> I would never let "looking silly" get in the way of having fun with a horse.
> 
> Abhorrent? Hateful and loathsome? You think that looks hateful?


I know I'm going to get bashed for this, but yes, I think it looks very distasteful.

When I say it looks silly, I mean it looks plain wrong, these horses do not look like they're having fun at all.... Having fun and being silly is only good if the horse is too, or if the horse is relaxed. I don't see either in the majority of these horses.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

I rode saddleseat on an Arabian back in the day. Those horses all look calm, content and quite willing. The high hands of the riders look odd, but there's plenty of slack in their reins so the bits are immaterial. 

Not sure why you're having such a negative reaction, OP. Sure, it's not 'true' saddleseat, but who cares? The horses all look happy and well cared for, and their riders are obviously enjoying the class.

Do you have a TBI? Your dramatic overreaction points to the possibility.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

SamanthaB said:


> I know I'm going to get bashed for this, but yes, I think it looks very distasteful.
> 
> When I say it looks silly, I mean it looks plain wrong, these horses do not look like they're having fun at all.... Having fun and being silly is only good if the horse is too, or if the horse is relaxed. I don't see either in the majority of these horses.


No one is "bashing" you. This is an adult discussion board, for adults that want to have adult conversations about horses.
I can't speak for others, but I know I am wondering about your experience in being able to judge if a horse that is obviously performing is relaxed or not, especially since you do not seem familiar with this particular type of class.


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## SamanthaB (Jul 22, 2014)

Speed Racer said:


> I rode saddleseat on an Arabian back in the day. Those horses all look calm, content and quite willing. The high hands of the riders look odd, but there's plenty of slack in their reins so the bits are immaterial.
> 
> Not sure why you're having such a negative reaction, OP. Sure, it's not 'true' saddleseat, but who cares? The horses all look happy and well cared for, and their riders are obviously enjoying the class.
> 
> Do you have a TBI? Your dramatic overreaction points to the possibility.


But that's the thing the horses don't look all that happy....

And that's just a little rude... I believe there was a thread quite a while ago that asked people what discipline they didn't like or wouldn't do. Were the people who answered to that thread overreacting as well? All I did was say I didn't like it, therefor I wouldn't do it, and explained why I didn't like it.


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## SamanthaB (Jul 22, 2014)

updownrider said:


> No one is "bashing" you. This is an adult discussion board, for adults that want to have adult conversations about horses.
> I can't speak for others, but I know I am wondering about your experience in being able to judge if a horse that is obviously performing is relaxed or not, especially since you do not seem familiar with this particular type of class.


I don't have judging experience, but tucked in tails, ears facing back, and chomping on the bit (in the manner that those horses are) to me does not express relaxation.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

SamanthaB said:


> I don't have judging experience, but tucked in tails, ears facing back, and chomping on the bit (in the manner that those horses are) to me does not express relaxation.



I did not ask if you have "judging experience". I wondered if you were experienced enough to "judge" if a horse was relaxed in a class you have never observed. 

Judging experience- acting as an official at a horse show
Judge- form an opinion


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

updownrider said:


> Judge- form an opinion


The life blood of a forum, differing opinions, some made with less knowledge than others. :wink:


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

I just see some lovely horses.


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## DanteDressageNerd (Mar 12, 2015)

SamanthaB said:


> I don't have judging experience, but tucked in tails, ears facing back, and chomping on the bit (in the manner that those horses are) to me does not express relaxation.



The horses are chewing on the bit, the ears come back when the horse is listening to the rider. His ears are not pinned back, he isn't swishing his tail, humping up his back. The horse seems relaxed and in a good situation to me. He looks healthy, he's not being ridden obnoxiously. I see nothing cruel here.

It's a weird style and not my thing but I wouldn't call it "wrong" if the horse and rider seem perfectly happy with one another.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

SamanthaB said:


> But that's the thing the horses don't look all that happy....
> 
> And that's just a little rude... I believe there was a thread quite a while ago that asked people what discipline they didn't like or wouldn't do. Were the people who answered to that thread overreacting as well? All I did was say I didn't like it, therefor I wouldn't do it, and explained why I didn't like it.


 No, you're going on and on ad nauseum about how it's 'awful' and 'cruel', not that you just don't like the particular style. 

There are riding disciplines I don't prefer, but I sure has heck don't shriek about how they're _horrible_ and the horses are suffering when they're clearly not.

Those horses look quite calm and willing, and I'm certainly not seeing a bunch of unhappy, stressed animals.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> It's very odd. the riders have their hands positioned very high, as if they WERE riding a Saddlebred horse. But, it's just odd, that's all
> 
> I find HUS also very odd in that they are riding a hrose that moves more adeptly for a different discipline, and trying to make it look like an English horse. it's just an odd American creation. but, not harmful or worthy of hate, just odd.


it is a breed not a traditional Saddle seat horse, being riddeN Saddleseat
I see nothing wrong, although , obviously, the horse would not win against a Saddlebred, at an open Saddlebred show, anymore then non 'traditional, western pl horses, like Arabians and Morgans, would win in NSBA events
I happen to like HUS, showing a much more relaxed horse, versue an over bridled horse, as open seen open English, but know it is a breed standard.
At the same time, Saddlebreds offer western pl, with that hrose often not even walking true, picking up the lope at almost 45 degrees tot he wall, on a tight rein contact.
Saddleseat is ridden with a saddle that puts the rider further back, and hands held up like that, even open Saddeseat
Here is open Saddleseat. Of course, youa re going to get more knee action, due to conformation, and special shoing, with Appaloosas shown Saddle seat being all around, thus not shod just for Saddleseat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZBsNt8geTY


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> No, you're going on and on ad nauseum about how it's 'awful' and 'cruel', not that you just don't like the particular style.
> 
> There are riding disciplines I don't prefer, but I sure has heck don't shriek about how they're _horrible_ and the horses are suffering when they're clearly not.
> 
> Those horses look quite calm and willing, and I'm certainly not seeing a bunch of unhappy, stressed animals.


This, if the horses are calm and willing, and to me they look that way, then I have no issue. I might not choose to go compete, but nothing horrible and no suffering.


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## SamanthaB (Jul 22, 2014)

Okay but both ears facing back is not a good sign, if it's just one ear then that would be listening, both ears usually means discomfort... 

I'm not saying this class is outright cruel. I find the way of riding to be ridiculous, and despite the fact that the horses are well cared, they (to me) don't look content for the majority of the class.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Wouldn't it be fun if the next class was the owners of these horses on the rider's Saddlebreds?
If they offered swap classes I'd be tempted to show.

Is anyone else old enough to remember when in some classes the riders had to then show on the horse in front of them?


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

SamanthaB said:


> Okay but both ears facing back is not a good sign, if it's just one ear then that would be listening, both ears usually means discomfort...


So you're saying this horse is in pain?


And this horse (his ears are in a similar position to the horses in the videos...this also happens to be my gelding and I know for a fact he wasn't in pain)?


And this mare (I know this horse personally and know she wasn't in pain)?


And this horse is in pain, right?


I have more and I could go on, but I think you get the point. 

And one more, just because it IS relevant to the thread...

This is a saddlebred from the farm this show was held at. I know the owners personally and all of their saddleseat horses are kept natural. According to you, this horse is in pain.


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## KLJcowgirl (Oct 13, 2015)

Smilie said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZBsNt8geTY



On a lighter note... I happened to pull up this video just as "Take on Me" by A-Ha started playing. The horses trot right along with the beat and it killed me :rofl:

As far as the original videos, I do find this class an odd combo, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. It's certainly not something I'm dying to try though. :wink:

I don't see horses that are in discomfort, but ones that are very free moving. Two ears back does not signal discomfort, it can, but not always. It's the way the ears are held back. And others have mentioned, it's the pinned ears that would signal anger or discomfort. These look like listening or resting ears, something my horses do on a regular basis.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

SamanthaB said:


> Okay but both ears facing back is not a good sign, if it's just one ear then that would be listening, *both ears usually means discomfort... *


Where did you hear that from?

Personally I've never heard such a thing. One ear OR both ears turned to face the rider means they are listening. Of course, that is much different from the ears being _pinned_ back; which maybe is what you are thinking?



SamanthaB said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pcuqx3er6Gg
> 
> I don't have any words to describe how much I dislike this.


I can't say I have a problem with. Certainly isn't really my cup of tea, but I don't dislike it.




SamanthaB said:


> the only one's I won't do is barrel racing, reining, and vaulting because I'm honestly worried about my head because of a past injury.
> 
> I have nothing against the disciplines, but they all involve some amount of spinning, and I just don't think I would be able to handle it. I get dizzy just from lunging my horse at a canter, I can't imagine what would happen if I had to do any of those disciplines.


Of course, you are more than entitled to decide which events you'd like to partake in and which ones you won't, for any reason of your choosing (head injury or other) but I am confused why you think *spinning* is part of barrel racing?

It very obviously is a component of reining; but not the barrel racing pattern.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

I like this loads better than normal saddleseat. Reins are not tight, the horses are balanced with head carriage that is pretty close to normal. It's like someone removed the bad parts from saddleseat and Western pleasure and then combined them.


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## SamanthaB (Jul 22, 2014)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> So you're saying this horse is in pain? QUOTE]
> 
> Discomfort does not necessarily mean pain...
> 
> When the ears are _facing_ back that could mean either discomfort or preoccupation (for example if it heard or is listening to something). It depends on the context of the situation, which is why I would argue although the horses in these pictures who have their ears back _may_ not be uncomfortable (because they are also showing relaxed expressions as well as other forms of body language) the horses in that show (to me) were/are.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

The expressions of the horses in the video were relaxed. There were no pinched lips, no worried expressions. They looked very relaxed. Like horses enjoying doing their jobs. 

I find it interesting that you're the only one who thinks the horses in that video look anything but relaxed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I was IMPRESSED by how relaxed they were!!


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