# Riding a sullen, unmotivated mare? Ignores most leg aids?



## elkie09 (Sep 22, 2016)

Hello!

For the past six months, I have been shareboarding a 7yr old TB mare. My coach directed me to her as I had finally stepped away from a very aggressive & young OTTB gelding who had no stop button and was a little bit of a scary ride with a lot of unpredictability. He simply was not a good fit for me and I wasn't good for him! My coach figured this mare was gentle and would be a good change of pace, which I originally thought was a good thing as well for me. However, I've noticed that over time, this mare has gotten more sulky and unwilling to work as I have gained my confidence back (perhaps I didn't notice her unwillingness in the beginning because I was happy to have a calmer ride). Lately, I've found myself getting out of breath and exhausted just trying to get her warmed up at the walk and trot. This may also be due to the fact that she hates working in indoor arenas and now we are indoor due to winter coming.

I carry a dressage whip with her, but I have always been more of a light rider and not overly aggressive with whips or crops due to not generally riding horses that actually need them to move. I've never been a nag with the leg either, but was told this horse 'needed a lot of leg' and now this narration has extended to 'she needs to be smacked when she gives attitude'. I'm not a fan of that, but it has gotten to the point that I end up leaving the barn miserable because I've tried SO HARD to get a good willing ride out of her without use of the whip and basically carry her weight around the ring with my seat. I even tried training her that my legs would come off the moment she gave me forward movement, but it never seemed to work for her- she didn't care.

My coach has begun to advise I use the whip hard the instant she ignores my gentle ask of 'walk faster than a snail', 'trot', 'extend your trot', or 'canter'. I've used it when asking her to trot now after gently squeezing and giving her the reins (because she ignores me). I instantly take my legs off of her the moment she moves and I give her the reins, just happy she is moving forward at a good pace after cracking the whip on her behind. This doesn't feel like victory to me...it just feels awful. After 1 lap she will fall back to a snail pace and doesn't respond to gentle squeezes when I ask her to keep that pace. Now I am even told to use the whip to get her to canter because she ignores every ask! The only time this horse wakes up a bit more is when we start jumping her. Don't get me started on how hard it is to get a decent canter out of her...and if I do it doesn't last more than maybe eight strides.

What can I do? How should I ride this horse? I don't like riding horses that I am told need to be smacked just to work- it doesn't feel like a partnership to me if the horse continues to show bad attitude throughout the ride even when the whip is used, even bucking violently after the whip makes contact. 

This horse has 4 different riders. Me, another shareboarder, a schooling girl for jumping, and her owner who only rides her 1-2 times a month. Could it be possible that this young horse is being set up for failure with all of these riders? I feel like my only options are to move on to a more willing horse or become a very heavy handed rider 

Do I need to use the whip more consistently until she begins to realize I won't take her crap? I don't want to be a bully, but I really am just at a loss on what I should do. I have not taken the aggressive route yet. The owner hasn't ridden her this month as far as I know, so the mare just seems to keep getting more sullen (and she is ridden 6 days a week). I don't think there is anything medically wrong with her, but she is quietly sullen when you tack her up and tosses her head high when she canters and trots.


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

Your post does not present a description of a pleasant experience. In addition, your questions are very hard to answer without additional information. 

Does this horse display the same behavior with the other riders? Does your coach also coach the other riders? Have you seen your coach ride this horse? Have you had experience with any horses other than the two you mention in your post? Have you had any experience with other coaches? Are there any other horses available for you to ride? Are other coaches available to help you?


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

It's really hard to explain what to do with a horse who has been taught (inadvertently but yes, taught) to be insensitive to cues. And if you are a tentative, hopeful, don't-want-to-damage-my-relationship type of rider, it is that much harder. 

I believe what your coach is trying to tell you is, stop nagging your horse. Ask ONCE. Sluggish response? WHAMMO!!! Make her feel SERIOUSLY ALARMED. Then just let her be. Next time you need to ask her for something, ask once only before switching into being psycho lady. Again, you just want a big reaction and then let her be.

What you are saying is "I ask nicely once. That is your one and only chance to respond to a quiet cue. One second after that, you have lost that chance. Make your choice, it is always going to be the same one."

Nagging is deadening. 

Fix an image in your mind of a lively responsiveness and do not let her do anything less. Once she is convinced, through your consistency, that she will only get one ask before hell rains down, you can get into the subtleties of communication. 

As I was told over and over with my green green horse -- get forward first. You can't do anything with a horse who won't go eagerly forward. It is the basis of all riding. So just work on that one thing, ignore everything else until you get that.


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## kittycom101 (Nov 15, 2017)

I agree with Avna. My first horse was a bit on the lazy side. Well, he was extremely lazy. As a new rider, it was very frustrating to feel like you have to kick the crap out of a horse just to get it to kinda walk. But my trainer said to ask properly once, then correct firmly the second time. It takes a few corrections for them to get the idea, but mine eventually did after a few weeks of consistent lessons and I am still a very light handed rider.

I was also told to not let your horse break gait. So if your trying to maintain a forward walk, the moment you feel your horse about to break gait, give them the cue again to keep the pace. After a few times, my horse got the idea and now he keeps the right pace on his own. It does feel like nagging, but my trainer said my horse knew what was being asked and he needed that type of correction to get over his stubborn/laziness.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I find it extremely hard to give advise with people riding lesson horses, horses that are ridden by many others, and thus so many variables

Might as well get the pain disclaimer out of the way

Sour horses are created by many factors that exist in these kinds of operations
Performing the same sort of routines over and over again, and with many different riders.

Lesson horses becoming smart for several reasons, including self preservation, thus testing different riders, and because they are ridden by so many different riders, getting different 'answers'

I; m all for ask,ask louder, then demand,on a horse with no physical problem, a hrose that understands what is being asked, but also, a horse that has some consideration given for the maintenance of that mind and willingness
That means the horse absolutely must have some time to be just a horse, with turn out.
The horse needs to be ridden out, on a relaxing trail ride, no training/schooling demands
You can force compliance, but you can;t force willing and happy.


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## QHMama (Jul 3, 2017)

To help me out this summer the owner of the barn where I board asked if she could use my older mare in her lesson program. My mare is broke, broke, broke and no problems. At least that is what I thought. One summer and she is ruined. I stopped her from being used mid-way through the fall lesson program. She would pin her ears and try to bite the other horses as they passed her. She was no longer quick to respond to my ques and I had to get out my riding whip to liven her up. Like you I don't like that, so I went back to ground work. One month later she is lively and more or less back to her old self. Horses in school programs can become sour and dead to leg aids from being ridden by so many riders. The key is to remember that the riders are not necessarily professionals so the aids could have confused the horse so much that it just doesn't care to respond any more. It knows that sooner or later you will dismount and it will be returned to it's stall, paddock or field to wait for the next rider. Lesson horses are lesson horses and performance horses are performance horses. Having said that maybe your coach is trying to teach you just how much pressure to use. A more sensitive horse is a scarey ride, a dull horse is frustrating. My coach did this years ago. I went from sensitive to dull to finally "just right" for me. Each horse was a lesson in aides, pressure and release but I couldn't see it because I was too busy worrying about the sensitive horse possibly throwing me and the dull horse not going rather than how to get it to understand what I wanted. Valuable lessons I finally conclude years later.

If you are beyond frustrated you should talk to your coach and ask why this particular horse. Perhaps your coach will try you on another once you have communicated. The problem with horses is always the operator.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

elkie09 said:


> This horse has 4 different riders. Me, another shareboarder, a schooling girl for jumping, and her owner who only rides her 1-2 times a month. Could it be possible that this young horse is being set up for failure with all of these riders?


It does certainly complicate things. If one rider rides the horse correct, but the other three allow her to be lazy, the horse is going to continue to be lazy.

Plus as others have mentioned, since you are riding in the indoor more, and the horse is ridden by 4 people, the horse could be really bored too!

Despite these things, I don't think it is an excuse for the horse to be dead to your aids, but it is something to keep in the back of your mind.



elkie09 said:


> Lately, I've found myself getting out of breath and exhausted just trying to get her warmed up at the walk and trot.


You are working too hard (as the rider). That shouldn't happen!



elkie09 said:


> I've never been a nag with the leg either, but was told this horse 'needed a lot of leg' and now this narration has extended to 'she needs to be smacked when she gives attitude'.


If you are out of breath after just warming her up, then yes, you are nagging her. There's no other reason you would be out of breath!!




elkie09 said:


> My coach has begun to advise I use the whip hard the instant she ignores my gentle ask of 'walk faster than a snail', 'trot', 'extend your trot', or 'canter'. I've used it when asking her to trot now after gently squeezing and giving her the reins (because she ignores me). I instantly take my legs off of her the moment she moves and I give her the reins, just happy she is moving forward at a good pace after cracking the whip on her behind. This doesn't feel like victory to me...it just feels awful. After 1 lap she will fall back to a snail pace and doesn't respond to gentle squeezes when I ask her to keep that pace. Now I am even told to use the whip to get her to canter because she ignores every ask! The only time this horse wakes up a bit more is when we start jumping her. Don't get me started on how hard it is to get a decent canter out of her...and if I do it doesn't last more than maybe eight strides.
> 
> Do I need to use the whip more consistently until she begins to realize I won't take her crap?


You kinda have the right idea, but not quite. 

If you ALWAYS use the whip after your leg cue, guess what? She's going to eventually become dull to the whip too. You always need to have success with the leg cue ALONE (without the whip). Here's what I mean. 

You are at a stop. You nicely and gently squeeze with your calves to ask the horse to walk forward. After 2 seconds, the horse has not responded to you. SMACK her with the whip. Expect her to lurch forward (as you should be hitting her hard enough to elicit that sort of response .... make sure you are NOT holding her back with the reins). Let her lurch forward for a couple strides, then gently pull her up and stop her. Then ask her nicely again with your calves, to walk forward. If she again does not respond briskly and nicely to you, SMACK her with the whip. But.... if she does give you a nice walk, do NOT hit her with the whip and allow her to carry on. 

Never let her carry on after you've used the whip. That is what will teach her to be dull to the whip. Only let her carry on if she's responded nicely to your leg cue, with no need for the whip.

If done correctly, you really should not have to use the whip very often at all in your riding. So make sure you mean it when you use it. But also, don't nag with your legs. If you've asked her nicely once or twice and she doesn't respond within a few seconds, use that whip. Then slow her up and give her the opportunity to do it right, without the whip.

And since you are sharing her with other riders, expect to have to "remind" her each time you ride who you are. Horses are smart. She will learn that she can't get away with being lazy with you on her back.

And of course, do try to find different things for her to do each ride, so that you can help keep her from getting bored as best you can. I get bored riding in an indoor arena too!


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## Shylaaa (Apr 20, 2020)

Is the horse ridden anywhere else other than the arena because she sounds sour. She's probably just really bored of going round and round in circles. For a young horse, that kind of work can be mind-numbing. My guess of why she hates the indoor is because there is no excitement of other things going on like other animals and smells and sounds. I would try and take her outdoors on trail rides and try to do lots of different things with her to keep it interesting. Some things you can do to mix it up are:
Polework
Weaving through poles
Jumping
Games(vaulting, flag games etc.)
Races with friends(just along the sides of the arena, indoor or outdoor)
You can have a groundwork session
Lunging
Ground-driving
Hand-walking
Liberty
Western(barrel racing etc)
Cross-country(or just jumping logs around the place)
If she is just walk-trot-cantering around the arena all the time, she'd get pretty bored. How long is she being ridden for by each person and how often. She shouldn't be ridden for more than 45 minutes each day. She should only be ridden by one person each day(she shouldn't have so many people who ride her). And she should have at least one day off each week. A weekly schedule for a 7 year old should look something like this:
Mon: Day off
Tues: Flatwork(indoor)
Wed: Jump(indoor)
Thurs: Flatwork(outdoor)
Fri: Hack/trail ride(mental health day)
Sat: Polework(indoor)
Sun: Jump(outdoor
Mental health day doesn't have to be trail ring, it can be groundwork, games, cross-country, group riding. It's just a day where you both do something fun, different and stimulating. Makes sure you mix up which arenas you ride in when possible and mix up the activities often. If possible you should talk to the other riders and figure out a schedule that works for all of you and takes care of the horse. The horse should always come first because otherwise you will end up with a naughty, sour, grumpy, lazy and unhappy horse like you have now. If you can, try to get the number of riders on this mare lessened because then she is less likely to be confused and pick up bad habits. With young horses and green riders, the horses pick up bad habits very easily, so sometimes its best to have your trainer ride the horse half the lesson while you watch and then the last half you can ride and then the trainer will know what to help you with.Remember, young horses should not have a very heavy workload like this mare, they should have lots of stimulation(like all horses) and they should be ridden by people who can handle them and get them moving nicely(you can be taught to do this by a good trainer). 
I really hope this helps.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

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