# Move yard? Covid? First world problem?



## Kalraii

Hey... 

I thought to give a little update on my situation with Katie. Last I wrote about us was before covid and had an instructor lined up and made a plan to get out each weekend to get some solo trail time even if it meant 5-10mins at first. Less work = more bonding time. Was planning to have sold house end of this year and buy property out in the country with land and get another horse for Katie (my horse, for those that don't know us!) and some farm citters.

Well covid happened and due to the nature of my work didn't take long to contract it (nhs). Protocols weren't being followed well enough so I actually decided to leave in the end as I come into contact with too many vulnerable people to risk their lives - elderly neighbours who have helped for years and such who have no family. Am financially safe at least for the remainder of this year and am looking for some flexible work. 

I've not ridden in months. Scrap that- in three months I've seen Katie *once*. Between getting covid, sick family, lockdown, yard changes and repeated exposure to people confirmed positive I can't justify putting other people at risk. It's seriously affecting my mental health. Seeing Katie, spending quality time at the yard or going for hand-walks was some of the most important time for me to decompress. But it doesn't look like its letting up and to make things worse the yard owner has decided that she will very likely keep (likely not certain) the yard changes she put into effect for covid which impacts me the most. As a reminder because am in the city the arrangement was as follows:


1. yard owner has 10 stalls on her private premises (think attached like a garden to the main house on a street). *NO FACILITIES*. JUST STALLS. NO ARENA. There is amazing local hacking in the green reserve nearby and horses are transported to fields every few days for turnout out the city. 

2. because of the above yard owner rented 10 extra stalls AND an arena at another yard 15 mins away. This is where I spent most of my time. After work I could use the floodlit arena. Could do fun training things, ride bareback, ride however I wanted because its so strict around here to ride on trails/roads. There are some cute trails nearby that I went on hand-walks and was planning on venturing out more on horseback as some of you know. Because of lack of business, understandably, yard owner has had to "unlink" herself from this yard and its not longer an option as people on the premises weren't following covid protocol (some thinking its just the flu and not caring). 

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*Cons in staying:*

- I can only visit by appointment only and only ride by appointment once a weekend

- No arena which means no more quiet evenings riding bareback at my leisure. No more free schooling or fun trick-training sessions.

- This is petty and I pay for it obviously but staff usually taken care of everything so she's super clean and groomed when I arrived. Grooming was so therapeutic for me. 

- No arena means no riding lessons and to get to the nearest arena requires transport and who doesn't have a car, much less a trailer right now? Me. I was gonna purchase one when I moved but everything is on hold now. Note: staff go to jumping clinics etc because yard owner transports everyone in their lorry but transport to lessons for plain old me isn't gonna be so easy. 

- Hacking/trail riding alone will be impossible for me at my current level. Staff ride her very frequently but only ever in groups and she is very bonded/attached now. Without an arena to improve my own riding skills and the fact I'm limited to one accompanied hack a week... I'm sure if I got on now I wouldn't even get down the road. 



*Pros in staying:*

- Katie is EXTREMELY well looked after and is having a blast travelling around, jumping clinics etc as above

- If something happens to me during these strange times I don't need to worry about her welfare which was a huge relief when I was sick

- OK I can't arena ride but this is a good opportunity to get more hours hacking in a group to better prepare me I guess for hacking solo in the long-term?



*Move options:*

I am looking for flexible hours but would plan on being DIY.

- Keep her down the road from my house for a bit. But its 24/7 turnout, no stall, no facilities nothing, no staff or livery service. I wouldn't be able to have lessons and you can only hack on the gravel bridle path.

- Find a new yard if one would even take me with facilities that I can DIY at. But it would mean a minimum of 30mins commute once I have a car.

- Don't move. Wait out the rest of the year to see what happens.



Staff love her. They have offered to buy her. She has paid to clip her for the jump clinics. While I was sick they put together to find her fitting tack as I had hers at home. She's having a blast. And I'm paying full livery fee for her care which is fine but then I can only see/ride once a week for a limited amount of time and despite all the positives am seriously depressed over it. I love her a lot :< I want to make this work but feel miserable. It's the last straw on the camels back with everything going on. It actually got me thinking about how some people deal with shared custody of their children. How hard it must be to be the parent that can only have your kid like 2 nights a week and look like the "boring/irresponsible/bad cop" parent y'know? Or to even be a parent that is deployed. I don't have kids yet and hope to never be in that type situation because I'm hurting this much over my horse :<


I don't know what to do. Or if I should do anything at all. Or if I'm just being petty. Thanks for listening as usual. I have no one that really understands. "It's just a horse" :<


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## JCnGrace

You've had it rough! Are you on the mend now? 

So I've never been in a boarding situation but what really sounds ridiculous to me is that you'll only be able to ride and see your horse 1 day a week by appointment only. If this was just during the pandemic it would be a little more understandable but If I read what you wrote correctly they are going to keep this practice in place from now on. That would be unacceptable to me. 

The other ridiculous is that they use YOUR horse at will but yet no discount in the board you pay. You need to come down hard on them about that. Either give you a steep discount (I'd insist on at least half) or stay off your horse. Who pays the vet bill if Katie is injured at a show? What if it's a permanent injury, are they going to compensate you her worth? 

You may have no choice right now if you're still testing positive for Covid but I'd yank her out of there in a heartbeat once you're clear.

I know you live in a city so aren't used to having to go very far to do what you need but a 30 minute drive is nothing where I live. Heck it takes longer than that to get to the grocery store. 

And by the way, I don't think you are being petty at all, I'd be livid.


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## LoriF

*They have offered to buy her.* 

This is where I would have opened my mouth and said, "Well, she's not for sale. Maybe a half lease would suit you" 
Now they are getting what they are getting now and you are getting what you are getting now due to circumstances. You can still ride once a week but they are paying half of the bill. If they don't want to do that, then I would move her to a field where she can hang out with other horses and you can visit and groom her. I bet she would be just as happy hanging out with horses, running and bucking, and eating.

I don't think that I could board my horses where other people were constantly using them, I could only come and see them once a week at a scheduled time and not know what is going on with them for the remainder of the week. That would drive me insane. It also takes a lot of trust on your part. I don't have that.
I understand that you are closer to your circumstances, it may not be that bad and you know the people. But, it doesn't sound like you are liking it much either.


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## ACinATX

OK if I recall correctly, she alternates between a pasture somewhere and these stalls in the city? I seem to recall that in the past you've gone out to her pasture to visit her? Could you do that now, to at least get some horse time? I don't know how strict of a personal protocol you are following -- do you feel like you can leave the house for a "mental health" visit? Hmm, but you don't have a car. I was thinking you could just buy (or lease) one now, as you'll need it out in the country, but if you live in the city now I suppose parking might be a problem.

I guess I'm just thinking about how to get to see her in the short-term.

For the long term, I keep my horses in full-time turnout, and they are really happy about it. They prefer it to being stalled. As long as the place has SOME shelter, enough for all of the horses, it should be OK. If the pasture is sufficient, they don't necessarily need staff. If Katie really needs extra feed, hay, supplements, then yes you'd have to do it for her. You already enjoy grooming her, so it's not like you need to pay someone for that. If I found a place like that, that was just down the street from me, I'd seriously consider it. I hate being as far away from my horses as I am. If it's really close, you could see her every day! And maybe you could ride her in their fields?

Oh, and if you enjoy grooming her, having a gray horse out on pasture all the time, in the UK, you should get lots of chances to groom her.

I think part of it maybe comes down to what you want from her. This barn where she is now does show jumping -- do you really care? Is that something you want her to do? Is it something YOU want to do? Or do you really just want to enjoy quiet hacks out? If it's important to you that she jump, you may have to prioritize that over seeing her frequently, at least for now. If not... why not give the place down the road from you a chance? You can explain the situation to your barn owner without going into too much detail ("I would like her closer to me so I can see her more often") and leave it at that. That way she doesn't get upset, and you haven't burned any bridges, so if you change your mind and want to go back to your current place, you should be able to do that.

Those are my thoughts. I also like @LoriF's idea about offering a half lease.

I hope you get to see her soon. My barn has really loose policies around Covid, which has irked me, but being able to see my guys several times a week has saved my mental health.


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## Horsef

First rule of crisis management: don’t make any rash long term decisions. You don’t have to do anything right now. Wait until you are healthy again. That shouldn’t take long now. Can you get tested? I ask because we can get tested at personal request easily over here but I gather that’s not the case everywhere. 

Once you are healthy and non-contagious, go spend some time with her. Settle your thoughts. And make a decision. From what I remember, you have been unhappy with the situation for a long time. There is no use going backwards and forwards all the time. That is what is making you miserable, not the situation itself. Either move her (and move her again if still not happy) or commit to the current situation and make the best of it. Second guessing yourself all the time has no benefits and is making you unhappy.


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## ClearDonkey

Kalraii said:


> And I'm paying full livery fee for her care which is fine but then I can only see/ride once a week for a limited amount of time and despite all the positives am seriously depressed over it.


Are you _kidding_ me? These people are using your horse and are limiting you to seeing her once a week.

If this were me, they would be paying _at least_ half of her livery fee. You don't get to use and enjoy a horse for free. They aren't doing you a favor by using her, you are doing them a favor by letting them use her for free. They should be thanking you, and offering to pay you for her use.

Have you considered half-leasing her to someone specifically? It doesn't necessarily have to be at your current barn, but it might feel a lot better splitting the costs for her 'officially'. I know I get a pit in my stomach when I am handing over my check for boarding my horses when I wasn't able to see them hardly at all. Horses _are expensive_, and when you aren't getting a return on that expense, it can really hurt.

If they aren't willing to begin paying, I would leave. Could you rent a stall at the place that your BO used to lease stalls? Find a private property that wants to half-lease your horse, and you use their facilities as well?


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## horselovinguy

I've read no one else's response/comment only your first entry, so here goes...


Good Lord girl, you've been through the wringer physically, emotionally and with everything in your life..
Upside down, sideways, backward, you've taken on all challenges and if not won the battle you are nearing the finish-line in conquering on your terms.

So..financially you are in a good spot.
That is a huge stress release allowing you to heal and recover yourself as is needed.
Now for Katie who is your wrenching thought....

For me, ...
Yes she gets excellent care at the place she is at...
She should. You pay for it and this place has almost, if not exclusive use of her whenever they want with the now protocols in place and the fact you were so sick and yet not totally yourself.
Sell her? Not if you can possibly avoid it as it would devestate you emotionally.
If you ever were put into that position, this is where I would place the offer on your terms of $ paid and it would not be less than what you paid for her, in fact in would be considerably more as she has proved herself versatile and rider friendly to everyone...what is not to love about her?? NOTHING!

So, you have a home in the country or are able to distance yourself to a more rural location now...
There is a place not far from you that boards horses, but it is only field board.
Care is on you, no help really.
Bridle path {groomed} to ride on only..
You would be able to see Katie more often...
_*You would be able to see Katie more often...*_
_*YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO SEE KATIE MORE OFTEN...*_
_*
*_
I think it is time to be selfish with Katie for you...
You, you, and more you...
I see "0" benefit of Katie being where she is for you.
No lessons, no ring to ride in, not permitted to see her but one-time a week with the hours and restrictions put in place.
Others accommodations are made for but _*not*_ for you, yet the barn gets free-rein to use Katie whenever they wish??

So, cons of where she would go to...
No shelter of barn...let's see, when she is shuttled or was shuttled to the other facility for R&R she had no shelter and she more than survived.
No ring...are you really going to be looking to ride every day for hours going roundy-round?
No lessons...when is the last time you got to have a lesson?

No staff grooming...you said it is good therapy for you and you love to groom Katie and spend time with her...here is your chance.

I'm not seeing a reason to stay where you are with the exception of...
_Are you well enough and recovered enough to go see, not necessarily ride but go see Katie to check on her a couple times a week?_
The more you can do of course the better...but...
There is no question in my mind your horse needs to remain yours, do not sell her if you possibly can avoid it.
Katie is a reason for you to work toward resuming your health and life...
For therapy reason, mental and physical benefits to you this horse would be on a lorry headed to a new place where you can see her more often if nothing else to give and get a hug and attention from her to you and you to her.
Sometimes you need to put you first and not think about anyone else...
No placating of the current barn to soften and give more toward you...the handwriting has been on the wall for a long time. They used Katie {with your permission} as if she was theirs and often you were a afterthought when they wanted to use your horse for a beginner group of riders to go overnight riding...oh, maybe she should get a invitation..grudgingly given think it was.
I have a memory and not forget often truly how "I" was treated...
My horse they loved but the one paying the bills so they had a free ride of no expenses for her fell all on you.
You paid them to use your horse for others pleasure that they then also got paid for...who wouldn't accept that and run to the bank with it...
No more...take Katie to where you can see her, ride if you feel like it or up to it, but just spend time with _*YOUR HORSE!!*_

I so hope you continue the recovery from covid and each day regain a bit more of you...this is more than a small illness to have had... 
You are one of the statistics few are told about..._*you are a survivor!!*_
hugs...feel better and bring Katie home where she is part of your therapy and recovery plan.
:runninghorse2:...


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## egrogan

Much good advice given here, and I agree it's perfectly right to be selfish about Katie being YOUR horse. As far as moving- if I'm understanding the details correctly, it would come down to whether or not I'd be able to commit to driving somewhere multiple times a day for full DIY. I would personally find that very challenging. I also always did full livery when boarding because even a 15-20 minute drive would have been extremely difficult to fit in twice a day. I have mine home now, and it's not a problem to handle chores multiple times a day when I'm just walking out to the back yard. Having to get in the car to do the same would have been a different proposition.

As far as having no barn, no arena...With mine at home, I have them outside in a field with 3-sided shelters. They are out there all day every day all year round (including in driving sleet, snow, and far below freezing temps in the winter). They do just fine that way. I do have a barn where I can stand them when vet/farrier appointments happen, but if I didn't have that I'd just park them in the outdoor shelters and that would work ok too. I don't have an arena but live on quiet country roads so do all my hacking on roads and in the fields and trails I can ride to. I guess there are occasional times when I miss having the option of an enclosed space to work on a riding issue (mostly with my own riding skills, more so than my horse), but I just handle those things the best I can in the field. 

I'm with the others who get the sense the barn Katie is at has horribly taken advantage of the situation and the balance of what's tolerable has gotten even more out of whack with Covid-related restrictions. Hope you get to a workable solution soon.


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## QtrBel

I've read all of the above as well as many of your other posts and I keep coming back to - is she too much horse for you if you don't have support? It happens. You fall in love, get attached and then you realize that the horse you call your own can be more than you can handle at the current level of expertise you have. That is where your instructor/trainer and leases come in handy. They fill the gap between your level and the level she needs. 



For you a bond has built and the horse takes care of you. Doesn't mean she will be an angel though without support and guidance. So you need to decide what is best for the pair of you. The first question to ask is - are we better apart? Hard question and I am not saying sell her but I am saying think long and hard about your goals and whether you can get there by yourself if you move her to your eventual place in the country and find her a friend. Finding her a friend may open a whole new can of worms as those bonds are stronger typically. 



I know so many that put themselves in that situation and they end up with a pasture pet. Not that having a pasture pet is a bad thing. For some it is ideal.


How many threads do we have here that deal with too much horse, not enough rider (skill level and confidence) and little to no or the wrong support? If you answer honestly and your answer is BUT you are so emotionally tied to this animal you have to ask the question - what do I do about this? Again I am not saying sell because as an adult you have options. I'm also not asking for a public reply. It is a hard question to ask and can be even harder to be honest in answer. 



Are we better apart? I know those that have answered yes BUT decided that selling was not an option. Some have grown with their horse and over time their level reached the horse's. They either were in a very supportive boarding situation with a great instructor/trainer and/or leasor OR all three. Some had support that came to them for a fee. Those that didn't either stopped riding and currently just love on them or found something better for each of them. New home for the horse, new horse for the home. Those types of decisions are extremely personal, emotional and can deal a huge blow to your confidence and dreams. 



You are recovering from an illness, have limited transport for yourself or your horse so considerations for that must be taken into account. I agree with now may not be the time to make a rash decision but you do want to see if there is a way to ask around about whether this is the norm for your area (full board with limited access if you agree to use by the staff) or these people are truly taking advantage. It may well be they are but that for this moment in time that is what is best until you reach a point you can make some changes - what those changes are, are up to you.


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## Kalraii

Thank you so much for all your responses have sat down and been bawling my eyes out with the stress of everything. I was so looking forward to moving to the country and getting away from this horrid city life. It really is horrid. The noise pollution. All pollution. The attitude. It really gets me down. Will work my backwards.

@QtrBel from the bottom of my heart she's not too much horse for me. I dont feel solid in my seat. She's powerful, bouncy and I'm out of shape after being sick. The arena gave me somewhere to regain everything and improve without worrying. The issue isn't for myself- the issue is that while ironing out any solo-anxiety problems is that I put others at risk and it's obviously more dangerous for both Katie and I. There are buses, cars, cyclists, sunbathers, pedestrians etc If she backs into a car and leaves a dent I have to pay. The pavement where we mount is less than 2m wide. The road itself is wide enough for one car. There are people weaving in and out crossing the road. I don't know the way to the park or any of the route (though I can learn that now I guess) because a lot of it is restricted. 

So lets say I get on and try take her out. My end goal has always been to just hack alone and Katie proved in the past its perfectly possible. It is 20 minutes ride to the park entrance and the roads I would be travelling are this:









She balks. Spooks at things because she's either testing me or doesn't feel secure with me (not unreasonable considering I'm out of shape after being sick and its been months). In the picture it's not busy but atm with covid lots of kids are around from the houses, playing with each other, tut I know. If she so much as backs into a car I'd have to pay and backing up into a spin is her way of saying "I wanna go home right now!" She doesn't run because I don't push her to the point of wanting to bolt and I fortunately have never had to worry about any bucking or rearing.

What things can I do (at everyone who sees this) with the space I have? Hacking doesn't give me anxiety. Hacking like the above picture does does :< I can only think that for BOTH our confidence that I spend a lot of time just riding her up and down the street the yard is located regularly and each time going a bit further out. But isn't it stupid to just get on and do that? I can't just hang around at the yard either with covid. 

If I manage to do this and reach the park entrance this is what I could get to experience at my leisure:









Please note galloping is illegal as is riding on cut grass but there is.. space and it is beautiful. Staff would definitely help me learn routes.

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If I was somewhere like this (where I wanna move) you bet my butt my anxiety would be greatly reduced. Sure she could run home but at least I wouldn't mow anyone down or crash into vehicles. I'd probably just turn her back and go again:










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So I can hack and be accompanied for now which is fine... but in the long run... I don't know how to make this work. The woman who rides her a lot is lovely and is even coming with me to ride next weekend because she knows Katie so well and for safety - I'm honest about my anxiety riding alone as above. But I can only visit and ride once a week and lessons aren't available for me really as I have no transport to get to an arena. Unless I see if an instructor would do it in the park.. but again.. how do I get to the park alone?


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## Kalraii

@ACinATX the fields from my house are 45 min drive one way and to get public transport requires quite a few changes so even longer. I have to avoid public transport atm as risk is too big to others and myself. Also its appalling how people really don't give a hoot about sanitation or the compulsory masks. Its the city and very busy and sometimes not possible to keep your distance. It is just too much though if I had a car I would consider it. In fact I've been thinking about what you said and just getting a cheap run around. Its parking as well as where I live they are expanding the congestion charge - atm you have to pay £11.50 a day and is all automated via camera. So to visit the yard or use a car locally will cost me that per day. In addition to parking permit, insurance, road tax etc etc. And with new emissions regulation coming in can only have new brand of car. Why you think I need to get out of here? It's ridiculous!

@horselovinguy am definitely thinking that maybe I could bring her locally to me for a few months? To just do a full reset and then decide. It means I would be full DIY but it is only 10 mins walk from my house. No stalls or storage but again.. 10mins from my house. I could go at 3am if I wanted! There isn't a ring but there is a dirt patch where you can ride. It's tiny but enclosed enough. I could just work on our relationship and small things. As I'm off work I could spend hours every single day and that is something I have *never* gotten to experience. I could bring my dogs, who she loves. I will take pictures when I walk the dogs tomorrow. Like even if it meant that I could just work on both our confidence and end up moving back or to another yard eventually with facilities. 

I just worry for her. She's settled and very happy.

Thank you everyone else who commented especially about half leasing. It is something to consider if selling doesn't work out in this current climate. It's been extremely cathartic to vent here and get your feedback. I feel much calmer. <3


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## ACinATX

The more you talk about it, the more I like that place that's close to you. Just a 10-minute WALK? You COULD visit her every day, heck you could visit twice a day. And if you're thinking about having her on your own place, then having her out there where you are her main caregiver will be really good experience for you. And you do have a little bit of a space where you can ride. You can get to know her, and get a much better sense for your relationship as well. And surely it must be cheaper than the place you're at now?


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## tinyliny

I have only scanned lightly anything since your opening post . . . so I'm sorry if I missed something relevant.


Also, I would love to hear about your personal experience with Covid19.

*But, as to Katie . . . . I feel that now is the time to let Kate be purchased by the Staff at your stable.*

I think that might sound harsh or heartless. But hear me out. I think that with all you are dealing with, your health, your income being precarious, your desire to make a huge move out to the country, your worries when you DO ride her about riding out alone . . . etc. that you need to LIGHTEN YOUR LOAD.


Doing even the move out to the country will be a huge and challenging affair, done when your body is perhaps dragging along physically, in an environment where everyone is so stressed about the future, and in an economic situtation that is going to get MUCH worse before it gets better.


If you have a great home for your beloved Katie now, I would sell her to this place. You will be horseless, but you will never have to worry about her again. Then, you can let that go from the garden of worries that is growing in your soul. Then you take a deep breath, and start looking for your place in the country.


When this dream becomes a reality, you will go and look for a new equine partner. And, as @*QtrBel* said, find one that is more suited to your needs and skill level. You want a horse that is steady and fun to ride out on the trails and roads. It is SO liberating to have a horse that is sane about riding out. It is so much fun to know that your horse will take you out and bring you back, with a 99% rate of success, in one happy piece.


This is a big time for many people. This is not a normal time, at all. You may have been thinking these things all along, but could not make that leap. Now, well, circumstances might be making that necessary AND beneficial in the long run. Sometimes it just is TIME to move on.


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## Kalraii

@tinyliny very hard read. And something I've been thinking about seriously - especially when I was at my most sick. It is a serious consideration. Both because of things you said but also because I feel like I am not as fun for Katie as they are.

As for covid... I had come off a string of doing nights and as anyone knows trying to flip back to daytime is hard. Started off as a headache. Normal. I have cat allergy and three cats so its not unusual to sometimes cough especially as if I forgot to close my door one of my cats would sleep on my pillow. Was extremely hot but when overtired that's normal. Woke up drenched. I just felt so unwell. Like I'd run a marathon and had no water. I had the flu once when younger and I was bedridden for a week with it. Got my yearly since. I have had severe tonsillitis to the point I went septic and had to be taken by ambulance to the hospital- my mother didn't want me to waste nhs time so kept putting it off until she went to wake me and I'd made a mess in the bed. I was 17 at the time. It took nearly a month to recover and even longer to be back to normal. I did go ITU then. Since had my tonsils out. Covid reminded me of that but I didn't end up in ITU. Got tested, hydrated, medicated and sent home. It was like the flu really and couldn't do anything. Seriously at one point I considered crawling on the floor back to my bed I was that exhausted. And the aching. I have never had my body ache in so many places at once and no position brought relief. Had no appetite and honestly never paid attention if I could taste/smell anything either so can't comment on that though seems pretty common from what I was told. The biggest thing for me now is my cardiovascular stamina if thats correctly put. I just get breathless and tired really easily doing tasks that were fine before. Like cleaning out the birds or reptiles etc would be a non-issue but when you realise how fast people lose muscle just laying in bed a week even.. it makes sense. Am fine now really just need to work a little harder to get back in shape. It's amazing how fast the months have flown by... 

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Also in the last 30 minutes I learned that my neighbour from a few roads down used to own horses! I only met her half a year ago as her daughter hired us both to care for her father. She used to own horses and show jump apparently! She's in her 60's with a bad hip but kept horses in the field nearby and when her last one died of old age she decided no more. Am going to tentatively ask for her opinion and see if she'd be willing to help offer support. She's unmarried and quite lonely I think so would be a nice outlet for her without the trouble of owning one herself.

I have also been thinking.. if Katie was nearby I could bring her to my house to bathe and groom her. My house is on the corner with direct garden access. I'd just have to make sure to take her poop back which is easily doable with some rigging or bicycle trailer (that I have). Horses are ridden around locally and even illegally in the parks (police will ticket/ kick people out if they catch them). One rider is OFTEN riding down these cycle paths (real road included below with arrows where she was riding):

They go 40mph and some idiots do 60mph+ when its quiet. I think its INSANE to ride here










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Below is a picture of the local layout... IDK if anyone even cares to see... 










edit: oh you cant see so well. Green are the fields. Red can't ride. Orange is the dirt circle ppl ride around. Pink is the direct bridleway - but its pure gravel only. I don't know if can ride in the fields will ask when I enquire at least.


So yeah. Maybe just bring her down and that alone should tell me if I have what it takes. Right now I have more time and nothing to do. I could easily care for a horse right now. Whether or not am deserving or capable.. I think so. Given enough time.. which I currently have.


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## PoptartShop

I think moving her to the place 10mins away would be a great option. You'd be able to care for her, it's closeby, & you wouldn't have to deal with anyone or worry about having an 'appointment' once a week to go see YOUR horse. I'd move her there. 

My horse is at a private barn, it doesn't have an arena (there's an empty pasture I ride in, so that's my 'arena'). I'm self care now (I was full care, but switched to self since I'm working from home currently). My horse has a run-in but that's it, no stall, which is fine anyway since she's always out 24/7. The barn is about 25mins away, but it doesn't really bother me.

I think that would really be beneficial for your mental health too, having her closeby & being able to really enjoy her. It will make your bond stronger.


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## QtrBel

I don't think anyone is questioning whether you are deserving or capable. You are an adult and you've worked hard to make your dream a reality. You've proven you are capable of working through issues and you aren't caught up in ego so much as to let your horse suffer for what you don't know. 

This would be why I said not only is it a question to ask yourself but to point out that as a capable adult you could do either sell her on where you know she is happy or if you decide not to go that route that as a capable adult I think you would look at your needs and find some solution that works. 

While there are legitimate responsibilities and concerns you should not have to worry about those things to such an extent as tinyliny pointed out. You should have a horse that instills confidence in you and your partnership that doesn't keep those concerns so much in the forefront. Can Katie become that horse? 

I have seen your situation work with the right support. I think you are not so invested in ego that you wouldn't seek help and advice.


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## Acadianartist

Many thoughtful opinions have been expressed. I would second the idea that you should not rush into making a decision right now. Why not start looking for a place in the country, leave Katie where she is for now, and eventually, bring her out to live with you? 

The idea that you cannot see your own horse more than once a week baffles me. She's your horse. I understand they need to control how many people coming and going, but that's just not right. 

None of the street scenes you've posted look like much fun to me. I would have zero interest in riding in those environments, but I also can't wrap my head around how a horse could be happy living in the middle of a city. You say Katie is happy. She's well-groomed, and gets used a lot, but do you really think she's happier there than if she were quietly living in a country yard? No cars, no noise, just countryside... seems pretty nice to me. Stress, anxiety, traffic, those things don't seem nice. 

In the end, I've learned there are a lot of different types of horse people. Some like to compete, some like to have adventures and keep pushing themselves and their horses further and further, some like to ride and don't understand why you would want a horse and not ride it all the time. Some, like me, just live for that connection with horses. Whether it's on their backs, or on the ground, I just want to connect. I've learned that I'm not prepared to sacrifice that connection by pushing my horse or myself to do things we aren't ready to do, and that I don't want to be the "boss", I want to be the person they like to hang around with. My most special memories with Rusty aren't even about riding (though I ride him a lot) - they're quiet moments late in the day when he chooses to be by my side even when the other horses walk away. 

I think most if not all horses are just as happy, if not happier, living a quiet life with people who value them as living beings, not just mounts. I'm not suggesting that the people who ride Katie are like that, but I AM saying that I really don't think Katie will be unhappy because she is no longer being trailered to all the events and jumping all over the place. 

And I think you'll be more at peace in a little house in the country with all your critters and none of the stress of the city. But maybe that's just me...


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## Horsef

No wander you have anxiety riding on that road. Especially with kids running loose. Kids are prone to doing some really irrational things - like the one which decided to run right in front of my horse out of the side door of the indoor. I personally wouldn’t even think of riding on that road - but I am a coward. 

I would agree with @Acadianartist. I don’t think there are many horses which enjoy showing. But all of them enjoy quiet country side living.


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## horselovinguy

Kalraii....I'm in favor of come home as you know...not sell!!

_Do you have the stamina now to do that trek a few times a day and have you done it?_
Wanting to and having to do when not feeling great is two different matters.
If, if you are not yet strong enough in stamina to do the trek...that might make you have to keep Katie at the current barn one more month as you regain more strength and stamina. _A month..._
_My horses are in my yard...but when I'm sick, the walk to the barn. scoop feed and feed them , assure there is ample water in their trough and toss hay is enough I come back in and go to bed...and I'm not riding/walking or bicycling 10 minutes away and need to get home when just done-in._
Make sure you truly are ready physically for the challenge cause it is a challenge and you can only rely on you even if the neighbor friend offers, that's great, but Katie is your responsibility for her care in the end.

No, I _*do not*_ think you should sell her...
You financially _*are*_ secure.
You _*have*_ the resources to buy the home you want in a rural setting you desire that allows for Katie to come home and maybe another for company.
You rode this horse for months alone, out by yourself with no issues...she loves to hack and now although you've been sick, before this you were riding with more confidence and ability cause you had had some great lessons and continued to work independently to improve what you were taught.
You also spent countless hours walking, just being with her and were happy.

If you go home Katie _will _be out more not confined to a stall and having to rely on ridden for her exercise.. where she is now she no longer has t/o with the loss of the other barns stalls, riding rings and field t/o...
There is nothing at this current facility to entice you to stay their, they have to use the lorry for every ride and excusion is not a place you want to remain at regardless.

I have a feeling that if $ were a issue, it _*is*_ cheaper to have your horse home than in some livery. 
_My horses cost me approximately $100 USD a month to be fed very well, stall bedded. To board anyplace with stall, feed and hay plus bedding is $350++. Farrier and vet would cost the same no matter where they lived.
_You still need to pay rent for a roof over your head so that to me is equal except you will own not hand over rent and have nothing to show for it...own and a mortgage..._you own, its yours!_

Mentally this is the strongest part of this..._it has been your hearts desire since you bought Katie and probably long before to own a home with ability to have your horse{s} at home._
I would *never* give up on that dream and would chase it now harder than ever before actually.
It will be a time of adjustment, but being financially secure is a huge weight off the shoulders, sounds you have a income waiting for you to return to it, the economy everywhere right now makes buying if you can, more for less money a plus.
_I don't see the negative._
I do see great depression if you sell, I see turmoil and loss of your best friend if you sell, I see a motivation point gone to work to overcome lingering effects of covid now take over.
You've mentioned many times that "city" life is not really your cup of..., but now that is not something you need to deal with anymore. 
Life circumstances changed and where maybe a door closed...I think a door has opened that gives you the opportunity to grab the golden ring and swing it with all your might.
Go, make those plans, change the course of your life so you are fulfilled and happy daily...with the hiccup of make sure you have regained the stamina to do that daily horse care, or make plans, put them into action and know that in 30 days Katie comes home to her new barn and a new life begins for you both.
Stay stagnant in a life you do not like...to me that _*is not*_ mentally healthy a existence.
Sell the horse that gave you your wings, such happiness..._absolutely not._
It isn't the motivation of money needed so don't sell Katie..._don't!!_
It is the loss of seeing and being with what makes you whole{Katie} that concerns me if you cancel your life's dreams and desires from finding a conclusion. :frown_color:

You know, if you try and fail ...at least you tried.
If you just toss it away and sell, give in ...there is nothing like your first horse and the special spot that no other animal will ever fill in your heart. 
*Don't open that void now...just don't, please.*
_Instead follow your heart, follow your dreams and the confidence you have in you, that *you can do this* and *do it!!*_
_*
*_
_AA..you've said it perfectly._
_Thank-you for sharing from your heart and gut to Kalraii another viewpoint about just being with the animal so few understand. :smile:
_
_There is peace inside that just makes the heart sigh, and you've found it and found a way to put it into words. 
_
:runninghorse2:...


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## LoriF

It seems to me that one of your biggest concern is Katie's happiness. I honestly don't think that she will be happier remaining where she is at. I'm not really sure how many people are riding her. One lady? Several people? 

One of my horses that I own I know for sure that she loves to go out and about. I don't ride much and I can honestly tell you that she doesn't care. She likes her pasture with her mates too. I don't think that Katie is going to be unhappy without all of these other people riding her. I really think that you might be putting some of your emotions on her. I think that you think that what she is doing right now is fun. Horses do have feelings and do have likes and dislikes but they live in the moment. They are not pining away for yesterday or concerning themselves with tomorrow. I really think that once she settles in, she would be super happy hanging out in a pasture and having you come see her everyday. Go for nice relaxing walks with her and groom her. 

Maybe you are a little scared of having all of the responsibility solely on your shoulders. Have you thought about this? Maybe subconsciously, this is holding you back a little. I can tell you, once you get into a routine, it's not so bad or so hard. It's actually enjoyable. It might help if you can have someone dependable on standby if for some reason, like illness or something, you can't do it.

I hang out with my horses most days and ride very little. Between my job and caring for my home, there's not a lot of time left for riding. In the summer, riding is almost nonexistent for me. I hate the heat and humidity and the horses don't like to work in it much either. So unless I get up at 4 am on my days off, it's not going to happen in the summer and I'm not getting up at 4am on my days off. Animals adjust. As long as they have their needs met for their species and they are not neglected or abused, they stay pretty happy with most things.

I"m not sure if you said but if you bring her to live in this field by your home, will she have other horses to interact with? Being alone might be the only thing that she would be unhappy about.


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## Celeste

If she is being jumped by numerous people, she will not be likely to stay sound as long as she would if she is just ridden by you. 

I hate the city. I could make 3X what I make living out in the middle of nowhere. And what would I use the money for? Most of it would go to the higher living expenses. The rest would go to saving up so that I could move out in the country. 

My horses seem so happy being out in the pasture. I have an old mule barn. There are three fans running in it all the time. They go in there in the heat of the day. They have grass to eat as well as a covered round bale. Hard feed is given to catch them. 

In the winter, I do put rain sheets on them.

They are laid back, easy going (usually). 

You may need another month to recuperate, but I would not pay large sums of money for someone else to make a big profit off of my horse. The BO makes money off of lessons, taking kids to shows, taking kids on hacks. Your horse is a big money maker. And you are paying the money. 

Move to the country when you can. If you get a few acres, once you are feeling better, you can fence it. Maybe put up a little barn. The more she is out, the less you have to shovel. 

By the way, I can't imagine how city people stand to live without a car. I would go insane.


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## LoriF

@Celeste I lived in NYC for a bit and believe me, you would go insane having a car. More of an inconvenience to have one than it is to not have one. With so many choices for public transportation 24/7 and the enormous expense to park a car somewhere, it's very easy to not have one.


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## gottatrot

I vote for keeping Katie and moving her. She's your horse, and whatever riding and exercise you do with her will be great. She doesn't need a professional level of work if she has turnout and you can ride her or take her for walks when you are able.

Sorry to hear you were sick. I wonder with all the restrictions at your current place, is there a way you can show them your test results and they can allow you free access since you've already had Covid? That would maybe make your life easier for now?


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## LoriF

I keep coming back to this thread. It's bugging me. 

How is it that *STAFF* gets to ride your horse in clinics and such but *YOU* get to ride your horse once a week by appointment only? How is this? She's your horse!! How does B/O even think that this is right? What's bugging me is not your arrangements for Katie so much but how it is so one sided. They can't even afford to help you out by getting you transport for rides or lessons? Yet they get to use *your* horse at will? It's just so one sided and being takers but not giving even an inch.

I'm not this ancient person full of infinite wisdom, but I'm old enough and have been around the block a time or two. If you are a giver by nature, you tend to give too much. If you are giving to one who is mostly a taker by nature, they tend to lose respect for you and start thinking that you owe them. Be more careful of who you give to and how much. What yours is yours and it's your hard earned money that paid for it. You deserve to enjoy what you have.

I'm a giver by nature but I have learned that as long as it feels good to give then I do it. If it stops feeling good then I stop giving. I'm not saying that every gift has to be reciprocated with stuff, not at all. But everyone has their own gifts to give and it shouldn't be one sided. It's like no one is even thinking that Katie is your horse. They are not even thinking that they are being given such a wonderful gift. They are just using what they can and not trying to be helpful to you.

Like I said before. Katie would be just as happy staying home and hanging out with horses and having you visit her. I highly doubt that she is having such a blast trailering around to clinics. She may not mind it but I think that it would be far fetched to say that she's having a blast. 

If I were in your shoes, the only way that I would sell her is if I didn't want to or couldn't have the expense of this.


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## LoriF

And why are you paying for her to be groomed? If they are using her, they are supposed to groom her before riding? They can't even groom the horse without charging you even though they use your horse?


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## SwissMiss

Ok, the statement below is what really rubs me the wrong way:


> Staff love her. They have offered to buy her. She has paid to clip her for the jump clinics. While I was sick they put together to find her fitting tack as I had hers at home. She's having a blast. And I'm paying full livery fee for her care which is fine but then I can only see/ride once a week for a limited amount of time and despite all the positives am seriously depressed over it.


You pay full livery fee for the staff basically using your horse. Yes, Katie get exposure and exercise this way, but the barn horses, normally used by staff, get a break (aka less wear and tear on their bodies).
And while it sounds nice that they worked on getting fitting tack while you were sick - they needed fitting tack to be able to continue to use her...

Maybe the heat here is making me grumpy, but I got mad on your behalf.
Does every boarder only have access to their horse once a week? If this is the case, then I don't see that you could appeal to bend that rule, even if you can provide a negative COVID test.

Personally, I would move her. With a few considerations:
First and foremost: Are you fully recovered? Or still battling the unrelenting fatigue that makes brushing your teeth a strenuous exercise? While we all get used to barn chores, taking care of horses IS hard work. Make sure your body is up to it before deciding to move her.

Second: If you move her closer to your house, does she have at least another horse for company? If not, this may not work for her. Especially considering she has been in a livery situation all her life.

Third: Yes amenities, such as an arena with lights are great to have. But you can do a lot of work (ridden and groundwork) in a pasture. Or a little corner in a yard.

And I agree with others: Not sure if Katie really has a blast. I bet with you that she would enjoy grazing in a pasture with friends as much.
My mare _really_ loves going places and exploring trails. We didn't go anywhere since beginning of March and she is as happy just frolicking in the fields, playing pasture ornament...


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## SwissMiss

Oh, and one thing I wanted to add: 
The road you have to ride on to get to the trails evokes memories of my riding in Switzerland, and the anxiety it sometimes induced as well!
I had to cross a busy highway (only road in and out of the valley), use a railway underpass (with trains more frequent that every 30 mins) and ride by a slaughterhouse to get to the trails.
The alternate route was going through a saw mill and residential areas.

So I fully understand that you are less than enthused to ride there...


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## Kalraii

*Met about the local place...*

Thank you everyone for your responses. Sorry in advance for my vomit below but I met with the farmer's mother for a chat and met one of the owners that keeps her two here. @Lorif you're like the voice in the back of my head that keeps me up at night thinking these things. Then I feel bad for thinking this way because she IS looked after. Everything you said is correct but at least I need not worry about abuse. She does go to the field in the week because the staff lady sends me pictures frequently of her frolicking in the field etc and communication is very good...

... but you all got me thinking. I haven't really given myself a proper chance yet. So today I walked down to the local place and knocked on the bungalow. Had a chat with the farmer's mother (who used to teach me to ride in their fields when I was about 10). I didn't want to consider going here due to lack of facilities and my inexperience originally. I went down to the fields where the horses are kept and met one of the owners! I see her frequently riding around, she's the nutter that rides on the large road I told you about  Nutter because I'd be too cowardly to risk it. But turns out her two gelding are the definition of bombproof. They are in their 20's and were abandoned by her previous owners. She bought them for a penny and took over their care which includes mud-fever SO bad that the horse was nearly put down, feet that were once curled upwards and the other boy is a real fatty with cushings (medicated). 

I asked her a lot of questions and explained some of my anxieties about moving. She has kept her various horses at this "farm" 30 years like several others. It's mostly a place for retired people that dont ride but there are a handful that have horseboxes and go out a lot. It's more a back country type setup and I've been told not without field politics (some ppl not helping maintain and poo pick). 


*So let me tell you about this place:*

1. two fields, rotated every 6 months with the cows (idk why or if this is a good thing?) The summer field must be about 5 acres at a guess. The winter is closer to 20. 

2. There IS a herd of around 15-20ish for Katie to be with and no special divisions are made except in spring/summer where the laminitic-prone lot are separated for easier maintenance. Katie would never be alone at any time. 

3. the farmer grows and cuts his own hay every year. In winter for an additional £40 a month he'll puts bales of hay each morning off his tractor himself. You can purchase hay in the summer too but how you feed JUST one horse is up to you.

4. ... the real shock is that to stay here costs £30 a month. I have to pay for hay ofc but... I nearly fell over. There are no facilities and I have to purchase a storage box but I do live only 10mins away... I would be saving literal hundreds each month.. I could have a second horse with this... (don't worry it was just a passing thought ) or more frequently lease out a horsebox etc.

5. The fields have automatic water drinkers & as long as owners pile poop strategically the farmer will sort it out each rotation. 

6. There is a house at the end of the lane where one of the lady owns a few horses. Worst case scenario can knock on her door for help or call farmer who live on the land. The neighbour form a few roads down used to own horses too. So I realised I might have more support available than I first thought.

7. One of the owners rents out her horse lorry

8. Everyone has to be wormed & vaccinated (how strictly this is adhered I am unsure)

9. It is 10mins from my house so I could literally bring Katie into my garden to hose her. It would be *hilarious* but I absolutely would do it. Hang a haynet, put down some rubber mats and chill out with the dogs. 

10. The lady I spoke to said she'd be more than happy to take me out on hacks as long as Katie is able to hack a distance on roads- from what she was telling me she goes all over the place. She even hacks one way to reach a park, has a jolly, then hacks one hour back home. Katie would probably be fine... my butt probably would not lol.

11. Security. Each end of the bridleway is gated & locked. The gates to the field are also locked. Owners are given a key, however. 


--------------


*Downsides that bother me:*

1. Barbed wire fencing inside a wooden fence perimeter lined by tall hedges for most of it. Sigh. Current yard also has barbed wire fencing and Katie has got cut up. Lady said that one of her horses got his navicular bursa popped by a jagged bit of barbed wire and had to be put down. She said it is her biggest gripe over all these years but the farmer has never budged about changing it.

2. The fencing that divides the summer field (lami-prone lot go one side) is not high enough in my opinion. The winter field is left open so not really a concern except at the perimeter. 

3. Very busy roads at each end of the bridleway. Just lots of "what ifs" going through my head.

4. No arena or enclosed area to ride in. It was very strongly put to me that riding in the fields is strictly forbidden and if caught would be asked to leave.

5. To hack anywhere green and open requires a lot of road work, between 30-60 mins or use of a horsebox. Which is devastating considering its a national park. The other national parks that I'm currently keeping Katie near permit riders. But not the one by my house :< 

6. The owner of the two geldings was super enthusiastic and said you get what you pay for but she loves being DIY and being in charge. The farmer's mother though said I should probably stay at my current yard with covid happening and with the lack of hacking in the local area. She really thinks that because there is a lack of nice hacking here and lots of roadwork I might be better off not moving.

7. Last but not least... no stalls available. At all. *At all.* Our soil is a nightmare in winter. The owner was honest and said mudfever is a problem for some of them. Absolute serious *worst case* scenario I could use my garage which opens into the bottom of our garden. It'd make a nice run if I say so myself but I have no intention of keeping her like that. But it _is_ an option.. (I'm talking like.. she has strangles or something contagious or that requires round the clock care but can't transport to vets, god-forbid please). I have no idea about legal ramifications but I own the property which has direct access to the street from my garden. Yard I'm currently at has zero land. It's a house with 10 stables at the back that open onto the street. They lorry the horses to the field. As long as noise wouldn't be an issue and I get rid of poop... Is this ridiculous? Am I being a princess? lol. If she ended up with a bad injury that required intense stall rest or something I would move somewhere with stalls available if I had to of course and try to make her life less miserable. 

----------

Anyway here are some pictures & a video:

Dirt circle as it's called. The "wannabe arena" that they use!







The bridleway - it is 1.5miles long (2.4km according to google)










The fields - 1st is for the "skinnies" and 2nd is for the "fatties". The summer field is multiple times smaller than the winter.

















So... let me know what you think then!


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## Kalraii

And thanks for everyone's concerns - I did the walk and more today and feel ok. It takes it out of me but as I don't have much to do at home I can rest a lot between. I think I'd manage OK just maybe not ride immediately.


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## SteadyOn

If there's barbed wire where she is already, anyhow, then it's not really a step down in the fencing department, at least.

In your position I'd be tempted to move her to this new place just to get a clean break from your current situation. It doesn't have to be a permanent place for her, but it would give you a fresh start away from all the demands and restrictions and complications of where she is right now, and it would let you rebuild your relationship with her and get some distance on that situation while you figure things out. Perspective often requires distance.

And as you're not up to riding yet, and walking sounds like it will be good exercise for you to get your stamina back, you could spend a few weeks there hand-walking her around the place, getting her used to the traffic and different sights, so that hacking around there will be easy and familiar for her once you're ready.


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## Alder

You could see her everyday!


I'm fairly new to horses and have discovered that as well as riding, I enjoy just being with my horses, as AA said in her post. I think they know that you love them, and they give it back in their own way.


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## horselovinguy

What is the downside?
Large field with many for company.
Surrounded by residences and resident horsepeople who I bet all watch for everyones horses to be safe and healthy.
In winter plentiful round rolls are delivered...
Un-soliticited comments about the place...from one at least who is a resident of the place for 30 years!! 

That speaks volumes to me...huge volumes!
A killer of savings so come winter if you need to move her to dry stabling you should have a nest egg of huge magnitude to pick the very best of the best for your girl.
Lorrys for rent or catch a ride with others to go ride, friendly boarders and they live close by is a nice perk.
Barb-wire fence she already knows what it is and to respect it...
Seriously in walking distance from home...
Friendly others who will ride with you and show you how to get to allowed riding areas.
A "walking" ring where head clearance is high enough you can ride to get her some exercise when heading for the trails in not happening.
That walking ring is large enough you can trot in it and do some cantering carefully...actually larger than many places riding ring that everyone goes roundy-round on the rail of, this one has a tree obstacle in it...
_I saw another "track" in your video...is that another walk ring cause if it is you just doubled your space to ride in.._
For me the biggest is you get to see Katie when you want, you will be outside in fresh air and can keep your distance from others while you finish recovering from illness...and you can do this enjoying your horse.

As the comments start to come in...so far agreement it seems is to bring her home.
I have no reservations, none that are earth-shattering to change my opinion to otherwise.
I would make sure all her vaccinations are current, farrier and vet are alerted she is moving and do they service this area...if not recommendations of who to transfer her care to..
Bring her home...10 days time...
_Bring Katie home and enjoy having your horse be yours again._
:runninghorse2:_..._


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## SwissMiss

Grazing with cows is often encouraged for parasite control. At least that is what I've heard. Worms from horses can't develop in cows and vice-versa... Not really sure this still works with a 6-month rotation, but at least you get different grazing styles that are probably beneficial to the pasture.

Love the "wannabe arena". While not huge, it is big enough for doing quite some work in there.

I feel your biggest concern is the lack of stalls. Does Katie _really_ love being in a stall? Or is it more the convenience of being able to let her feet dry out? Yes, mud and constantly wet conditions are no fun. Just went through that from maybe October to May... I am talking knee-deep yuck with the added bonus that it dries like concrete - meaning when you try to get it off the skin is coming with it... LOTS of diaper rash ointment helped immensely. Feeding adequate vitamin A seems to help with mudfever as well. For some reason MSM seems to really help my mare keeping thrush at bay... 
So this point would not deter me....

But yeah, you would be able (let me correct that: HAVE to see her) everyday :wink:


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## egrogan

Seems like a lot of upside!

With the fields and concerns about mud fever-what do you notice now, while it’s dry? Are there areas that look higher where a good number of the horses have a chance if being out of mud?

That’s probably my biggest complaint about not having true stalls for my horses in late winter/early spring. So many people will tell you you can clear up thrush, scratches, etc if you “bring them in to stand on clean dry shavings overnight” without realizing a lot of people in damp, muddy climates don’t have that option. It IS problematic. I spent several thousands last fall to have my dry lot graded and layered with stone dust and it made a world of difference this spring, but if I hadn’t it would have been bad for their feet. Since you wouldn’t have the option to improve footing in the field, how bad do you estimate it will get? That’s what would concern me more than some of the other cons you listed. Though maybe that’s when you’ll bring her to hang out in your garage :wink:


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## Kalraii

Thanks so much for your responses @horselovinguy you and many others have been a part of this journey from the start and I am incredibly grateful for your advice. There is another track but it's not quite as round and the right hand side is recipe for losing my eyeballs with her height ahah. I guess I could trim it myself... fortunately access to vets and farriers wont be an issue either. 

The farmer didn't get back to me today :<. There might not be space so I don't want to get my hopes up but after everything so far am beginning to seriously warm up to the idea, especially getting out and seeing the herd (and their feet). @egrogan & @SwissMiss I can't walk on the winter field or access it currently but it's safe to assume so at least in some parts, be deep that is. It has drainage as its located right between some crop fields. It's a HUGE field though so might not get churned up as much past the gates. Currently I don't get a say in what she's fed and she seems fine but you're right that this would be an opportunity to probably look at her nutrition. Katie does indeed* love* a stall sleep though she manages just fine outside. 

I worry about poor Katie losing her current friends (even though she will make new ones as there are plenty lovely horses and ponies here). The anxiety of yet ANOTHER move although she's proven to be quite brave and adaptable. But I think while it might not be as polished I could definitely offer her an exciting life. Especially if I am able to afford a horsebox and get out and about. A horsebox or another horse would EASILY be achievable but I don't want to make any big moves during a time like this. That would increase my confidence massively. I always wanted to grow as an owner and while this yard is amazing in helping during hard times and looks after her I lost all agency. It's not as easy to get out there and when I do.. there's nothing for me to do. I always wanted to be DIY worthy and own two horses. My actual dream, whether realistic or not, was to have two horses and travel around and explore. Well enough I could pony and swap, also ensuring Katie or the other would have a constant friend in general and a spare horse if I wanted to bring a loved one along... Not an easy dream to achieve but surely easier than becoming the next Dujardin eh?  Might not be with Katie.. it might not even work out and I do end up selling her but I can try. I am hopeful.


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## ACinATX

With the money you save boarding here, you COULD afford a horse box! Then you could take her wherever you wanted!

I also love the idea of bringing her to your backyard and using your garage as a stall if necessary.

I think my main concern at this point would be the stocking rate. 15-20 horses full-time on 20 acres in the winter, when things are likely to get muddy, doesn't sound good to me. It sounds like the fields will just be mud soup. There's hardly any point cleaning her off if she's just going to go right back out there. Having said that, like I said, I love the idea of having her at your place part time! So if she's showing signs that being in the muddy field is hurting her, you could bring her in to your "stall" for a while.

And speaking of stalls, I doubt she really needs one. Isn't she part pony? If you could bring her to your place during the very worst weather, she should be fine. I know it's different here in Texas, but mine are out 24/7/365, and except for the mud when it's wet they have suffered no harm.


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## Kalraii

@ACinATX I know it sounds insane... but the other yard with the arena I could go back to has ONE acre for about 15 horses (double that before covid). Even then the 1 acre is split into two summer/winter. So its half an acre. To the point the horses are turned out 4 hours, 4x a week. And the arena was off limits for anything but riding. But you're right, it's gonna get bad.. its England :< They might even refuse me because they are at their limit. But I am very fortunate that if I'm home I could even just keep her home during the day. Hell I could blow-dry her feet if I wanted haha. Overnight wouldn't be possible or fair to keep her alone. 

And yes you're amazing with your babies  I love reading your posts as I learn a lot from them too esp the DIY/Field aspect of it!


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## LoriF

I say Do It! Beg them and promise you will be a good boarder. I think that this will be good for you and Katie too. The mud is a concern, but that is about it. My horses are out 24/7 and they look great most of the time. Here in Florida, it rains A LOT in the summer and where I keep my girls it can get pretty wet. Most of the places in my area are the same way so unless I kept them someplace that is a lot farther away there is not much I can do about that. I just have to really keep check on their feet in those times.

The cost is fantastic. Don't you even think about getting another horse until you have your own property and you will. Use your savings on something practical like a horse box or saving for that property. You will be glad that you did.


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## Acadianartist

I'd be pretty tempted. I really do think horses can develop a strong bond with their person, and that it's probably more important to them than a state-of-the-art facility. 

There are options for portable stalls - something to keep in mind as an investment in case she needs to live in your garage for a bit! But what are the zoning laws where you live? Will the neighbors complain when they see a horse on your lawn? 

I do think she would adapt to this new place. My horses live outside year round and I'm in cold, snowy Canada. They do have access to the barn and can come in and out as they wish, but I never shut the doors. They're fine. 

I agree with you about how they've taken away your agency at this barn. It sounds like they've made you feel like you don't even have a right to see your own horse. You're definitely not going to learn from that, or grow as a horse person.


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## Kalraii

Heya well a little update.. it waaaaas looking really good.

They'd lost a big horse recently so I was hopeful that slot was free. But then the farmer's mother rang me: "we dont have space". *crickets*. I asked if there was anything I could do as an owner to address any concerns (grazing I'm figuring). She didn't answer and the silence was a bit awkward so I offered to pay for a round bale, to pay double or triple the monthly fee, to trial a month... just anything really. They had lost some horses so I knew there was space at least but obviously the summer field is less ideal. I wouldn't mind if they even said that someone else got priority.

She listed off a few other places which I already know dont have space or only offer full livery arrangement (one of them quoted me £3000 a month pffft) and told me to find somewhere else and hung up. 

So guess that's it for now :/


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## Horsef

However disappointing it may be, I would be grateful that the barn owner (field owner?) was honest about lack of space (or whatever their reason may have been) rather than take on another horse into an unsuitable situation just to make a buck. You were actually lucky in this instance.

Also, 3000 British Pounds? What?!
I could keep 10 horses over here on that money (Eastern Europe).
We live on different planets, it seems like...

I would be really interested in seeing what kind of service and facilities people get for that kind of money. I get a feeling I would be disappointed, I'm guessing it's the space that's at a premium over there.


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## horselovinguy

Well, slightly discouraging... :frown_color:

_*However...........*_
The push now is for you to find, truly find a property to live on and your horse can call home forever...no more yards, no more shuffling, no more others riding her, no more, no more...
Motivation to start the look, seriously start that look.
You don't even need to be so careful going in search as you've had the darn virus chances are you have good immunity now....


And just think of the savings of hundreds of pounds a month not needing to pay board...
If the farmer was charging his boarders $30 a month and a extra, you said $40 think, for winter forage delivered... you can put a lot of money in savings to get you through the winter nasties where you need to feed forage and feed if Katie needs...
_"Hello...I'm looking for a small home on 3 - 5 acres of land...." would be the next few phone calls to realtors. Do you have any listings?
_
I don't give up so easy, and again...one door closed and another is peeping open. :smile:

:runninghorse2:...


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## Kalraii

Thank you. Am still gutted and weirded out by her response. 

I wish I could move asap but I need to sell - can't risk having two houses to upkeep. Unfortunately it's in an expensive area and people aren't buying. I am still 100% trying though, in selling and moving. 

There are some other DIY yards but I would need to arrange a companion horse (unlikely things like goats or donkeys be allowed). I have seen plenty politics and wrecks about horses left alone. Oh the drama... I couldn't deal with it. I'd need the comfort of knowing Katie has company and for other horse as well. I couldn't just take Katie and leave one alone either... 

ATM it looks like I'm stuck. Am still searching though.


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## Kalraii

Horsef said:


> However disappointing it may be, I would be grateful that the barn owner (field owner?) was honest about lack of space (or whatever their reason may have been) rather than take on another horse into an unsuitable situation just to make a buck. You were actually lucky in this instance.
> 
> Also, 3000 British Pounds? What?!
> I could keep 10 horses over here on that money (Eastern Europe).
> We live on different planets, it seems like...
> 
> I would be really interested in seeing what kind of service and facilities people get for that kind of money. I get a feeling I would be disappointed, I'm guessing it's the space that's at a premium over there.


Everything looks immaculate but even when I went to view (they wouldn't tell me price until I went down... so was curious) they were just living in another world. It has ZERO turnout. Each horse got an hour in one of the arenas a day. They do have fields but it's even worse than where I am - you pay for your horse to be transported to the field, which is 30mins or an hour away and thats where they stay put for a month at a time. At current yard its a weekly affair at minimum. The expensive place had three arenas one indoor heated/air con. Hacking is nice but same level of roadwork as current. As for services... as many as you can think of lol. But because of the city... everything is cramped and tiny. It's really depressing.


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## LoriF

:sad:

ok, only dwell on it for a second. Start thinking about what you want and how to get it. Don't dwell on what you don't want.

Just start poking around, I know something good will come up.
It's yours and waiting for you.


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## horselovinguy

Your vet and farrier may be excellent places to inquire of different boarding situations.
They know barns, private barns who may want another animal for a companion to theirs if they just lost one for example but no longer want to own a second or third...
Both professionals they know good care and where animals are taken care of or not...
Most would not suggest a bad location...
Inside details of good, bad and awful are like wildfire in the industry...before you could sneeze your current barn will also know you are looking to move so do be aware the first inquiries you make.


With all that is happening, is the other place where the horses use to go for R&R time now your barn no longer leases...is there boarding their?
Would that be better for Katie to at least have freedom to meander around the pasture free-will yet still come in to a stall as needed and be checked for injury daily on the pasture??
Throwing out anything that would allow you to see her more often...what you are doing is nuts, and the barn is too for charging you board as they do then using your horse like she is a lesson horse belonging to them...she is privately owned, period.
:runninghorse2:...


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## ACinATX

I just wanted to say I'm really sorry it didn't work out.


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## Acadianartist

Don't get discouraged. Keep forging ahead with your eventual goal of buying a place in the country for you and Katie. Of course you have to sell your current house now, and I get that it's not a good time to sell. But keep at it. You just never know when all of a sudden, a door will swing wide open!

In the meantime, keep looking for a better boarding situation. I like hlg's idea of looking at private barns. Knock on some doors if you have to - explain your situation. You are paying very good money for a horse you do not get to see! Don't give any details about where she is so you're not going around bad-mouthing your current stable, just explain that you would like to be more involved in your horse's life. Someone with a small, private barn might welcome the extra income and/or the extra help around the barn! Offer to do chores, to look after their horses so they can take a vacation... and if nothing comes up for a while, you know Katie is ok. When you see her at your appointed time, tell your you're working hard to make your dream come true and that someday, she will come to live with you in the country where she will wake up to the birds and spend her days walking down country lanes instead of busy city streets. 

Chin up, you will find a solution eventually. You've had a rough go, but you got a glimpse of what might be... keep reaching for it.


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## PoptartShop

Try not to get discouraged. Something better is in the works for you.  There is a better boarding place for you out there. Private, small, lowkey barns would really be ideal for you. I personally love being at a private barn. I never really liked bigger boarding barns - I feel like drama was just all over those places, even though I kept to myself, it's just peaceful being at a smaller place.

Fingers crossed you find something soon. Just keep looking, the perfect place for you and Katie is out there.


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## LoriF

Look, crazy things happen. I had to move my horses because where I was keeping them they were not feeding them correctly. The guys were really nice and all but I couldn't tell them anything. I even provided my own feed and they still insisted on giving them sweet feed. Laela was getting obese and my Bella was getting skinnier and skinnier. So I moved them to a farm which looked fantastic. 

I had advertised that I was looking for a field to lease as I wanted to care for my own horses. A guy answered the ad and I went and looked. It looked great from the outside. I moved. within the month I started seeing stuff that wasn't cool at all. I really don't want to go into details but not only did I want to move my horses again but I needed to run and get them out of there now. 

I was standing in line at the local feed store and when It was my turn to pay for my stuff, I asked the lady to let me know if she hears of anyone who is boarding horses and has room for three. A little voice pops up behind me saying "I board horses" I turned around and a little lady and her husband were standing there. "Do you have room for three?" "Yes" "Can I come look today?" "Sure". I've been there for seven years now and they have become family to me. 

Yes, there have been a couple of issues. Yes, I've gotten upset over a thing or two but I fixed those issues that I was having because I really liked the people. I never worry about my horses there and I can see them every day if I want to. There is a couple of days of the week that I travel and I don't have to worry about them, they are taken care of. All because I was at the right place at the right time opening my mouth and asking.


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## Kalraii

Thanks so much for your support and stories it gives me hope. I have been pretty active calling about today asking ones near me - DIY or part assisted like I'd prefer.

One amazing one is shut but she was really lovely over the phone - said to call back end of August. She is just looking after herself during covid and if it lets up by then can have another chat. She was also telling me how she has been BOMBARDED by horse owners that are having to sell if they cannot move. All because of the restrictions DIY people are being charged full livery fees now because they can't have access to the stables. One lady had to move her horse 2 hours away and has to book a week in advance to go and see it, for an hour at a time as well. I guess I could be worse off that's for sure.

Another one in a great location only takes geldings :< (coz mares are naughty apparently and send them lala).

Two others don't have space. 

Am never bad-mouthing usually the opposite! Katie is immaculately cared for, has amazing turnout, the staff are amazing at communicating and I get lots of photos.. She is very much _loved._ I just, y'know, want my horse in *my* hands now. If anything this is a good kick up the butt and with all your support. I'd even be more than happy for the staff member to collect her to go to a clinic or arrange something because I don't mind sharing. But I just want to be the primary caregiver. I really feel its time to just do it myself now. I just know I can do it. And if I can't I'd deal with that, too, just as Tiny said might need to happen. 


Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff. Is how I feel right now.


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## SwissMiss

What a bummer - but you never know where another door opens! 

I also have one of "those stories". When I got Raya I boarded at a riding center with all the nice amenities (including a nice, lit arena)… Long story short, due to various reasons I HAD to find something else. At a cook-out of a work colleague I was introduced to a woman "that has horses too"... We started chatting and found out that she had to put down one of her horses and had an empty stall... She never considered boarding a horse, as she didn't want to deal with other people in her barn (and horses!), but we went for a ride together, and afterwards she asked me when I would like to move there.

Very low key, no arena, and when it rains a lot the pastures are a swamp, but I have never regretted making the leap and move my pony there... And I _agonized_ over the decision! Pony and I are very happy where we are. I have enough control over things that I am happy, but I can also go on vacation with the knowledge that she is very well taken care of...


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## Horsef

Hmm, you said earlier on that there are some DIY fields available but you would have to get a companion for her. How about asking for contacts of those people who have to move their horses and maybe pool your horses together? It does come with a risk of having to deal with the crazy/lazy/entitled/clueless but if you screen potential co-boarders well, it could turn out amazing.


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## egrogan

^thats a really good idea!


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## Kalraii

So an update and more advice wanted! I have been calling and doing a lot of researching.

Options 1 - stay as I am and deal with it, for Katie. Hope things improve with covid. 

Option 2 & 3 - there are two yards with similar facilities and pricing and I would be full DIY, hands-on daily. Both have assisted livery though if I wanted a lay in or had work.

*Yard 1* - *maybe* available end of August. tiny yard, only 5 horses on 2 acres it looks like. Horses are turned out *EVERY DAY.* No very close trails though. No one lives on site but it's locked and has cameras.

*Yard 2* - the one we used to rent the arena/stalls at. My storage box is still there. Turnout is 4x a week, 4-6 hours per slot in pairs or herds. I can have extra turnout but need a second horse. Katie will hate being alone. TRAILS RIGHT OPPOSITE YARD. A short 1 min walk from the yard entrance are some lovely trails I can go on hand walks and hack (build up to that ofc). I can PM you the turnout field if you would like to see it. It IS maintained nicely but it's just small. Owner lives on site - right next to the stables actually and is very strict about locking the premises for the evening. She has also been as equally helpful with some issues I've had.

With yard 2... I'm sure that the staff worker and current yard would eventually pop down to take her out. They are in love with her - just as I am in love with her ahah. But during covid probably not. 


* Yard 3* - when I have a car this yard is 35mins drive one-way IF traffic is good. It has everything I need. 120 acres. Part assisted livery. Busy yard and they run shows, clinics & have 2 arenas. But right now I don't have a car. I'm looking already. It is definitely more expensive (£800 pm) but you get everything. But the commute is off putting, especially for when I return to work. But I'd be willing to make the commute to find that balance of "good turnout and a few days a week DIY and fully control". I can't do this yard right now... but it is an option later.


----------------------------------------------------------


If I move to either yard 1 & 2 Katie would lose:

- lovely group hacking in the national park with all her buddies and favourite humans
- her herd & human friends... her girlfriend. She really is settled with her herd and at this yard :<
- AMAZING turnout (but when she is brought in for 2-4 days to be ridden there is ZERO turnout, but does get amazing rides). 
- amazing riders... coz I'm out of shape after being sick and was only "good enough" (by this I mean I can school walk/trot/canter just fine and hack out alone.. when I build up to it.. which I can't even do atm.
- camps & clinics... initially at least. Until I'm settled and figure out the horsebox situation! 


If I move to either yard Katie would gain:

- depression from losing the above? 
- me, daily. I mean the amount of attention she would receive daily would probably be obnoxious. I would ensure to go every evening so she gets let out and stretches her legs in the arena or field. It's only 15mins drive and 2 buses (but outside my house > down the road from the yard. very easy route).
- she will be stabled near other horses and turned out with other horses. They do try put them in groups where everyone gets on
- on days not turned out I would obviously do the above, ride and take her out for walks on foot & for grazing with the dogs (who she loves)
- I could probably pay one of the girls that rides AMAZING to ride her for me.. there are plenty good riders and some definitely could use the money
- I would put money aside so I could rent a horsebox once or twice a month and go out places, where able. Even if it was just initially closer areas. Just to build my experience in loading and travelling. Or even going to the instructor at my first yard who I freaking loved.
- There is an arena so I could still try find instructors to come to me or travel there myself
- There are people on the yard as well that can help me and I've never been shy of asking for their help before - no one is perfect but everyone helps any horse in need! 
- I could also try find a suitable sharer that is above me in ability (but you know how finicky that can be). 

If you want a pm of the turnout field that gives me so much grief let me know. It's a nicely maintained field its just small :<


Anyway thanks again for reading.


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## Kalraii

Update: the field turnout near my house that was unavailable? Well owner left me a voicemail today saying she has a space and to ring her back! It's like a 1 min cycle or 10min walk and the council emailed me back - they said I can legally have a horse on my property for bathing and it's just a matter of keeping neighbours happy!

It's cheap enough I can use what I save to rent horsebox and travel to lessons. No stall but I decided based on what everyone said its better to be turned out 24/7 than stalled 24/7. Worst case I could use my garage (pretty spacious). She will be in a herd and always have company. I can being her home for a haynet and a pamper and then walk her back to the field.

Am gonna call to confirm it tomorrow but just wanted to thank everyone again for your input. I am excited and terrified about now becoming primary caregiver (always had staff or livery service). I think I'm ready though! ^.^


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## egrogan

Awesome news!!


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## Acadianartist

YESsss!! You will love being her primary caretaker, I promise! There is no way I would have it any other way. The bond you will have with Katie will grow exponentially!


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## SteadyOn

I'm so happy for you that your horse is finally going to be _YOUR_ horse!!!

Congratulations!


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## LoriF

That's good news!! Are you going to have to pay double? Triple? Like you offered. I wonder. Anyway, let us know how it goes.

Don't be afraid, this is what you have been wanting. Katie is not going to fall into depression because of not seeing her buddies. She'll make knew ones. She's will be fine, you'll see. Also, most horses are forgiving enough. She's not going to be rolling her eyes if you are not an amazing rider as long as you are kind. Once again, she'll be fine.

I am not an amazing rider and it just occurred to me that I have never asked my girls what they thought about this. lol


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## Acadianartist

Yes, what @LoriF said. I was worried about how Rusty would take the sale of Kodak (she went yesterday) since they are very bonded. Honestly, both he and Harley have briefly looked around to see if she was hiding somewhere, but quickly moved on. They live in the present, not in the past. Change is hard for them, but they cope pretty well. Just give Katie a bit of time to get used to her surroundings, and use this time to hang with her and do all kinds of fun things that don't necessarily involve riding just yet. Katie will just be happy that you're there consistently to love on her rather than have a bunch of different people riding her all the time. It will be good for both of you!


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## Kalraii

It's a done deal, contract signed! Moving at the end of the month though. I am grinning ear to ear. I still need to break the news to current yard... I don't know if its better to wait. I don't think they will do anything at all malicious and I'm sure they would appreciate a heads up to love on Katie before we leave. 

Thanks so much everyone that is reading this thread <3
@Acadianartist I saw your thread but was in bed and nearly cried. I guess I'm just a bit emotional right now and can't imagine how you feel about Kodak - even knowing that she is going on to live a life that matches _her_. What you said about Rusty was a relief though. It's so funny I am not one for projecting but when it comes to Katie I really do "humanise" her too much. I shall have faith that you more experienced horsemen and women know more about moving and integrating horses. 
@LoriF nope they ended up giving me the usual rate. We pay 3 months ahead at a "whopping" £84. That's for ALL 3 months. Cut hay that they grow themselves is £4 a bale but they run a group-share type scheme. All liveries chip in and the farmer puts hay out in the field. So no need to stand around waiting for horses to eat their share of hay. I'm still going to buy some haylage to keep at my house & do a grass/hay test so I know what direction to go with feed etc. Am planning on collecting her each morning and feeding/grooming at mine. I think with time I could probably get her used to being alone for a few hours for a daytime nap in the makeshift stall in my garage/garden with a camera hooked up to spy on her.

-----------------------------

BUT I do have to deal with poop and neighbours. I am trying to find a pannier (is that the right term?) "saddle" for Katie so when am walking to & from the field I can poo pick any mess she makes. If anyone knows of a good way to attach boxes to a pack-horse I'd really appreciate some input. Every time I google it comes up with pack-horse holidays instead...

Videos of the two fields.. I had to go down for one more look to reassure myself. And for anyone interested in how its setup... for the city... it aint bad at all!

Summer Field





Winter Field


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## egrogan

It is amazing that's all right in the city.


Have you read @Cordillera Cowboy's journal? I know he's created some packhorse tack on his own in creative ways, that may give you ideas.


I am so happy for you that it's all working out. You're going to love having her so close :grin: I hope one day we can get a video of her walk from the farm to your house, how neat that will be.


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## SwissMiss

Katie will not believe her eyes when you move her!
Pasture EVERY DAY??????? :gallop:

And you will be able to see her every day!

:happydance:


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## horselovinguy

This is all going to work out just fine...
A couple of weeks to prepare and ready your home for days Katie comes to visit is perfect.
Reinforce any fencing for a BIG strong horse to not walk through it...
Consider that horses are a magnet to children and although Katie is gentle she *is* large and kids are kids = protect them both best you can.
Renovating the garage for horse occupancy...if a concrete floor, consider putting down mats so Katie shod has less chance of slipping on a finished surface where a barn is not smooth finished but textured concrete, makes a difference.
You need to construct "stall" barriers so she is contained in the garage to keep her safe.
You need bedding to put over those mats.
Cleaning equipment of a manure fork and basket at least, wheelbarrow at most...a compost pile to utilize her presents left for you.
If the house is on the market to be shown and sold...considerations of what do you do when someone comes to see and view...interesting conversations taking place I envision... 


Here are some poop bags or diapers as some refer to them.. my computers acting weird again...C&P the address into your search bar and get to where you need that way, sorry the links are not cooperating.:frown_color:
*https://www.workinghorsetack.com/Catch-It-Manure-Bag-Horse-Diaper-p/bb2cb.htm*
*http://bunbag.com/*
*https://www.ebay.com/itm/Catch-It-Bag-Horse-Manure-Catcher-for-Saddle-and-Harness-Horses-New-/113891982198*

As for notifying the other yard....
Yea, well...
I would not tell them you are leaving with them having Katie at their disposal for a entire month yet...
Do you have a contract, written contract? In it will be what must be told...
If nothing in writing, then from me...a weeks notice, 2 at most.
Not a word to anyone, no one...
I've been on the other side in barns where boarders gave notice and not that I did anything differently to horses in my care but I know some barns would and do things like cut food, not clean stalls or bed as they would, animals not go out, tack and equipment goes missing...
Be careful all the ducks are safely secured before you open the dam and let the waters flow...
They may miss Katie, I'm positive they will...but not just cause she is a sweet animal but because she is their lesson horse anyone can ride so loss of a moneymaker they face.
Just protect you both, your equipment is all I'm saying...be ware and be careful.
Now that I've stressed you out again...:icon_rolleyes: *sorry.*
:runninghorse2:...


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## ACinATX

Yay yay yay!!!


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## SteadyOn

I find it kind of hilarious what other people consider to be "small" pastures, just because, where I am, it's all rocks and trees and mud and shrubs and so paddocks tend to be SMALL because there isn't a lot of farm-y land around here. The summer pasture there looks HUUUUGE to me because it's bigger than 95% of any of the horse pastures in my area! And when they are on the larger side here, they're usually packed with lots of horses.

So to me, that all looks incredibly spacious!


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## Acadianartist

Sooo happy for you! And yes, I am a hot mess right now, but I do believe rehoming Kodak was the right thing to do. She will be happier, and now we have space if and when Harley needs to retire. I will also have a little extra money so I don't need to worry about it if a horse needs an expensive vet call or costly supplements. I just want this weight lifted off my chest because I miss her with every fibre of my being... but Rusty is my heart horse, and Harley is my daughter's heart horse. Kodak deserves to be someone else's heart horse. 

Change is hard, but you'll see, Katie will adapt in no time. You will have such fun with her! I can't wait to hear all about it!


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## Cordillera Cowboy

Late to the party. I just now saw the tag on @egrogan s comment. I'm not completely clear if you have to clean up the fields from turnout, or just collect manure if any occurs while walking from field to home. If the later, perhaps the bumbag suggested by @horselovinguy is the answer. If the other, you will likely have to make something that will be supported by your "english" tack. Most commercial panniers are designed for sawbuck or decker style pack saddles. Some are designed to fit over and be supported by the horn and cantle of a western saddle. 

Here is the latest photo of my pack rig in action. I can take better shots of the equipment itself tomorrow after feeding time. The saddle I use to support the soft panniers is a pony saddle from Costa Rica made roughly on the old US army McClellan pattern. 

https://www.horseforum.com/farm-forum/our-ranch-philippines-774218/page31/#post1970836381


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## Cordillera Cowboy

Here are photos of the pack bags, or soft panniers that I made. 

It is imperative that any pack system be securely fastened as well as balanced. This will reduce the chance of the rig sliding under the belly of the horse, or the horse getting a foot caught in the rigging. 

The bags I made are simply a strip of canvas cloth, doubled back on itself to form pouches. I sewed across the corners to give some shape to the bottoms. 

A standard horse brush is added for scale. 

















The bags are draped over the saddle. Mine are secured with bootlaces. This works for me because my usual load is firewood. The string goes over the fabric and under the protruding sticks of wood. 

Here I have a piece of plastic tubing to demonstrate.


















Due to the risk of entanglement, I always have a sharp knife readily available to cut the rig free, if needed.


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## Cordillera Cowboy

For the OP’s purpose of transporting manure, I would recommend adding grommets for securing bags such as the ones I made. Especially as the OP is from the UK and likely has only An English type saddle available. 

If you use bootlaces as I did, you could possibly run them length wise down the gullet of the saddle.


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## Kalraii

So an update... have just been passing time preparing myself. I finally sent the notice email out to the yard owner and X (staff member) who loves Katie and has been her main rider. It was a hard email to write. I received this response:

_"What a shame that you feel you need to move, it has worked so well with us looking after Katie and you putting her needs above your own all the time. We do love her so very much and she is one of the family now, I just wish we had got to know you as well as Katie. Katie certainly is thriving now and really happy in the herd. 

It goes without saying that X is devastated, heart broken actually, she adores Katie.

I understand your position but obviously my concern is for Katie. Katie is not a good doer and my main concern is that she would not do well wintering out. 

Is there anything we can do so you would reconsider? I do not want you to be unhappy of course but I just don't know if it would be the right environment for Katie in the winter months. 

We will of course support and help you if that is the decision you stick with."_


So thoughts? Obviously you all know I'm a stressy one :<


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## SwissMiss

Kalraii said:


> _"What a shame that you feel you need to move, *it has worked so well with us looking after Katie and you putting her needs above your own all the time*. We do love her so very much and she is one of the family now...
> 
> I understand your position but obviously my concern is for Katie. Katie is not a good doer and my main concern is that she would not do well wintering out.
> 
> Is there anything we can do so you would reconsider? I do not want you to be unhappy of course but I just don't know if it would be the right environment for Katie in the winter months.
> 
> We will of course support and help you if that is the decision you stick with."_


Maybe I am overreacting, but that response just got my hackles up.
So Katie is not a good doer - but chucking her out 4 days in the field at a time is not a problem? 
And the bit about you always putting Katie's needs above your own... Well, that worked really well for them, as they had her available all the time, as you had to schedule your very infrequent visits. And they know you well enough to know that you are a worrier and only want the best for her. Massive guilt trip laid out here. 

Yes, Katie will need some adjustment time to get settled in a new herd and get used to permanent turn out. But I am 100% convinced that she will love not being cooped up in a stall days at a time. She may not be a brightly white anymore most of the time, but I don't think she cares :wink:

Take a deep breath and try not to worry too much.


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## QtrBel

Their response is self serving and meant to lay on guilt. With any situation you make adjustments and you're observant and in tune so I expect if she needs something once she has settled in and y'all have developed a routine you'll see she gets her needs met. 

They were the beneficiary of your very generous nature and perhaps had they not been so selfish and self serving a balanced relationship could have developed where every one won.


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## egrogan

I think their response was honest, and perfectly captured how they thought of Katie as theirs with you as an afterthought. 

When is the move date?


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## horselovinguy

Oh...I will be back to comment, but need time to cool-off first before letting it fly...


YOU are doing right by Katie and don't let anyone tell you different!!


Will be back..:gallop:


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## SteadyOn

_"What a shame that you feel you need to move, it has worked so well with us looking after Katie and you putting her needs above your own all the time. We do love her so very much and she is one of the family now, I just wish we had got to know you as well as Katie. 

*Gee, maybe that would have been possible if they had actually let you come and ride YOUR horse whenever you wanted to, like you should have been able to.* 

It goes without saying that X is devastated, heart broken actually, she adores Katie.

*And exactly how much of Katie's board was X paying directly to you for that privilege?*

I understand your position but obviously my concern is for Katie. 

*Sounds a lot like their concern is for the loss of free access to a capable horse.*

Katie is not a good doer and my main concern is that she would not do well wintering out. 

*And as she'll be much much closer and you'll be able to see her as often as you want, you'll know whether or not she needs more feed and how she's doing, soooooo... what's their point?*

Is there anything we can do so you would reconsider? I do not want you to be unhappy of course but I just don't know if it would be the right environment for Katie in the winter months.

*Maybe that's a decision her OWNER can make.* 

We will of course support and help you if that is the decision you stick with."_

*Sure, Jan.
*


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## JCnGrace

I agree with every response to the yard owner's response. They have taken advantage of you and of course don't want to lose their free, all expenses paid horse.


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## trailhorserider

I agree with everyone else. I've been following but not posting on this thread, but gee, they have been using you and using your horse and totally taking advantage for SO LONG. Don't EVER feel guilty about doing what's best for you and your horse! Let them go out and buy their own horse to jump and haul around all the time! That is just a bunch of mush about "doing what's best for Katie." If they really believed that, they wouldn't be jumping her. Not that there is anything wrong with jumping per say, but they are putting wear and tear on her and that's not in her best interest. And they think you taking away YOUR horse and loving on her and keeping her in a pasture ISN'T in Katie's best interest? Give me a break! Take your horse, love her, don't look back. They are using you.


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## SteadyOn

_*It goes without saying that X is devastated, heart broken actually, she adores Katie.*_

Okay. Also. This last bit really riles me up.

I don't own a horse. I ride other people's horses. I PAY other people to ride their horses, unless they specifically approach me and ask me to ride their horse for them as a favour. However, I've had the great fortune to have been riding one specific horse, whom I love dearly, for most of the last four and a half years. I've ridden her more than even horses I've owned way back when. I have logged more hours and rides on her than on all other horses in my life, combined.

But you know what? If her owner decided to move away and took her away, do you think I would say one WORD to try to guilt trip or manipulate her? NO. No. I would be incredibly sad to see her go, and I would want an opportunity to say goodbye if possible, of course, but that would be MY issue. I would be grateful for all the opportunities I'd had with that horse up to that point, that only happened because her OWNER was gracious enough to let me ride her so often. But I would never EVER EVER EVER use emotional guilt to try to manipulate the situation. Ever. Period. Because it's HER horse, it was never MY horse, and my feelings are my own to deal with.


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## horselovinguy

*I'm yet seething hours later,... it isn't even my horse nor my fight..*
_Still steam coming from my ears and my husband wants to know who ticked me off...._
_And here we go..................................... 
_

_*"What a shame that you feel you need to move, it has worked so well with us looking after Katie and you putting her needs above your own all the time. We do love her so very much and she is one of the family now, I just wish we had got to know you as well as Katie. Katie certainly is thriving now and really happy in the herd. * 
__ Oh, it has worked wonderfully for them for years having you pay board, barely seeing your horse and then allowing them carte' blanche to use Katie for lessons, shows, cross-country hacks...what ever they wanted you allowed._
_Now they offer a olive branch of we would of loved to known you, then why did they not extend some offer to you to join in activities, be friendly and make accomodations of lessons which you would of gladly paid for be available to you..._
_Bunch of crap I'm reading from them..
_
_ *It goes without saying that X is devastated, heart broken actually, she adores Katie.*_
_Guilt trip backfired..._
_Not your fault you own Katie._
_Katie is your horse, how do they think you've felt for years not being able to see, ride and spend much time with *YOUR HORSE!!*
_
_ *I understand your position but obviously my concern is for Katie. Katie is not a good doer and my main concern is that she would not do well wintering out. *_
_More horse hockey-pucks!!_
_Katie is a fine "do-__gooder" or she would not of thrived living outdoors how many days a week all year long while in this barns care? *Fact!!*_
_Winter out...she has a winter coat that makes her a bear and you have how many waterproof blankets if needed to keep her warm, dry and extras to alternate with if needed...
_
_ *Is there anything we can do so you would reconsider? I do not want you to be unhappy of course but I just don't know if it would be the right environment for Katie in the winter months. *
__ No, you won't reconsider...and you won't!!_
_They don't want you unhappy but leave her here with us where you can't see her, is made impossible for you to ride her and then you are guilt-tripped when you dared to ask if you could have a extra day to see YOUR HORSE!!_
_Why is this environment so different from what they did to her every winter past..._
_She spent days in a field regardless of weather conditions and she did just fine._
_
_
_ *We will of course support and help you if that is the decision you stick with."*_
_But we will guilt you every step of the way to bringing YOUR HORSE to a location that is accessible to you to see her daily, spend time with her you so desperately want, and if and when you want you can ride her..
_

*So thoughts? Obviously you all know I'm a stressy one..*
*I'm still livid on your behalf...*
_This place has no idea of how lucky they are, from easy access to my being in their space or hearing. :angrily_smileys:_
_To try to guilt you, accuse you of not doing the right things for Katie, for YOUR HORSE they truly are ignorant idiots is the politest way I can write that comment without my fellow moderators needing to edit my comment. :evil: :twisted: _

*So, let us back-track to what you are providing for Katie...*
_At this point she will have a field of turnout available to her instead of standing in a stall._
_Katie will have unlimited hay or pasture daily and feed provided by you if not actually fed by you daily._
_Katie will have other horses as companions to be in a turnout situation with._
_Katie will see the one person who owns her often, mostly everyday.._
_That person who has so missed her and wants the very best for her, yet also wants to again have just time with her spent in companionship without that always meaning being ridden._
_Katie will have a new accommodation for her to visit on occasion when weather forecasts are especially nasty, a dedicated place just for her to be dry and safe inside._

_What Katie will no longer have is numerous student riders bouncing along on her back, pulling on her mouth and slapping against her as she dutifully goes roundy-round teaching lessons on._
_Katie will no longer be subjected to ....I need a entire chapter for this one so you fill the blanks..._
_Katie will not really miss those "who are so attached to her" as her owner who is more attached to her than anyone ever thought finally had enough and took charge of Katie's existence and said no more to not being allowed to visit, no more to just anyone of any level of riding accomplishment astride her, no more, just no more._
*So a new chapter has arrived.*
_Katie will relocate to a lovely field with nice companions who are well watched, cared for and seen daily by knowledgeable eyes._
_Katie will have time spent with her by her owner who has missed her terribly._
_Katie will have trails and paths to ride or go for walks on as the whim of her owner wishes and as Katie also enjoys doing..._
_Katie will no longer only stand in a stall 24/7 unless she is being ridden._
_Katie will be spent time with just being groomed as she so loves to be brushed.._
_Katie will again learn what it is to have her mind challenged to learn "tricks" as once she enjoyed learning and her owned loved exploring a keen mind wanting to learn._
_Katie will have warm winter blankets put on when the weather turns cold to keep her toasty warm and dry as is needed when needed._
_Katie will get to see and explore new environments different from where she had been._
_Katie will also know some of the horses where she is going so she will not be lonesome and she makes friends with all animals easily..._
_Katie will still be attended to by her vet and farrier who know her and her needs well.._
_Katie will spend her time here at this new farm till a better place opens a opportunity for horse and owner to explore together..._
_This is just a short stop till Katie and her owner purchase a location of their own to call home and need to never move on again..._
_Till the day arrives of a ownership of land arrives no matter where Katie goes to she will always be cared for, catered to and pampered by her loving, considerate owner._

_As for a responding reply...if you send one. :|_
_It might, no it would flame in transit from me what I would write..._
_"I'm so sorry you did not extend *to me* all those things you wrote of that will be missed by Katie._
_In fact, I will see Katie daily as she is a few minutes walk from my home._
_Katie will have pasture time with several selected other horses for companionship._
_I will enjoy riding my horse and not sharing her anymore with anyone._
_We shall have trails and bridle paths within a safe walk away, no more down city streets needed._
_Katie will be offered feed if she needs it daily same as you were doing._
_She will have her blankets to wear when appropriate, baths given by me when appropriate and daily grooming she so loves._
_I will spend much time with my horse that was forbidden to me by both Covid and the barns refusal to make accommodations for me to see my horse, yet the barn never offered me compensation of truly reduced board for all the time they had full use of Katie as a schoolie for any to ride, hack and show on..._
_Katie was a money maker for you both with me paying board and then you charging for lessons taught on my horse, I have no doubt the barn pocketed a vast sum by using my horse!._
_You did *not* pay vet bills nor the farrier for care given, even when issues that happened were not from my hand but by something that occurred during the time my Katie was in your care exclusively..._
_Oh yes, I have not forgotten my Katie sharing a stall and my horse contracting a bacterial infection that was from the horse who was assigned that stall when my horse lived outdoors 24/7 for days on end... costly were those vet bills._
_The stalls were not cleaned, stripped and sterilized as was told they were going to be...I have not forgotten.
_
_But it also taught me that my horse *can* live outdoors and *not* wither away, *not* fret, *not* dislike the out when she was properly protected from the weather as I provided for her._
_I truly don't see her pining away for the barn she leaves behind..._
_You, the barn and ~~~~ will miss Katie no doubt._
_The barn *will* miss the meal-ticket she was for them, the lesson horse they did not have to find, purchase nor feed, house and provide expensive upkeep to._
_They'll miss quality tack she had that was made available for the barn to use..._
_The excellent vet care and always on-time farrier work done that benefited not only Katie but the barn that seldom was the horse not able to go out and be a money-maker for them._
_The barn *will* miss the fact that no longer is Katie going to be their for them to go on overnight trips riding the countryside and a paid rider rode yet Katies owner who would of loved to be invited was excluded, only the horse was wanted... :|..no, I did not forget!_
_Yea, no more._
_The horse is leaving the barn and shall not return._
_It is time for the barn to afford their own horse, the same quality and caliber of Katie or better,_
_Time for the upkeep to be paid for by the many lessons given and charged...not all profit, profit and more profit anymore.
_
_*I* will be eternally grateful for those who did care for Katie but I will not be changing my mind, not be guilted in to feeling I'm doing the horse wrong.._
_You don't know me, *truly you don't,* so don't make assumptions about the level of care this horse will have by my hands._
_You *never* wanted to know me so don't offer a forked olive branch of crap...that branch just snapped back and smacked you full-face with crap"_

_Those comments will burn bridges behind you, but I also think Kalraii them sending this message to you solidified to you how much you *were* taken advantage of, Katie *was* used and made a small fortune off of for them while you paid all the bills in trust of the situation._
_I think your eyes were just opened wide to just what this situation you lived with and tolerated because you were guilted with information...those rosy glasses just fell to the floor._

_Take Katie home to her new yard and face each day and any issue head-on if there are any issues which I'm going to doubt shall happen._
_Enjoy your new journey to commence sooner, the sooner the better now that all know she is gone to them._

_OK...think I may have settled down some now... :icon_rolleyes:_
_I feel better and from what I read of the previous comments this barn she is leaving is very lucky is "across the pond" from a few of us..._
_Talk about gall and attitude...they drown in both and now shall pay the price of that 'tude._
:runninghorse2:_..._


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## Kalraii

Oof a lot of replies. I have been in real turmoil since I read that email, doubting moving. In anything else in life I've always taken charge but as most of you know I have been more hesitant when it comes to Katie. But wherever I went I have usually been let down. I was thinking the most progress I made with Katie in hacking out alone or in the arena... or getting over mounting anxiety... first bareback ride in the rain and just a halter... all the neat tricks I taught.. I was alone. Our bond was at its strongest when there was no distraction, obviously. I want that back. And if I want to walk my horse and dogs at 5am I can. When I feel good and ready and safe I can get on her and go down the trail. I have also been thinking that I could even pull her shoes over the winter. Her feet haven't had a break in years... I mean it might be a disaster. Or boots will be fine. I want to explore any option that helps keep her sound for longer but could never do that in livery.

Honestly reading your response and the section in first person @horselovinguy made me pretty emotional. It's hard for me to realise that yes, those things I have worked to provide. Because I really do want the best for her. You have a wicked memory I have to say as even I'd forgotten about the stall thing, which is very valid. It just became the norm as I had no choice... 

I don't understand the thing about not being a good doer either, assuming it means she doesn't keep weight well? If it is this is the first I've heard of her being one? As far as I'm aware they dont even give hard feed when in the field, just a round bale. I am planning on two feeds a day. First dog walk in the am and last dog walk in the evening. As the farmer grows and supplies the hay I can finally use my grass/hay kit and figure out her nutritional intake. I've also looked at haylage suppliers to store at mine just to be safe - likely will give her haylage in a net while tied up in my garden for her daily pamper. Because she IS a big horse. She's not a glutton but I wouldn't call her a hard keeper either. I think she's just a big horse that needs a lot of calories :/ I was thinking maybe they were wondering about her feet? But I can provide a dry stall if I HAVE to. If she needs the luxury of 4 hours stalling in the morning for a snooze, dry footing or peaceful munchies I can provide that too...

It's helpful as well from everyone who helped open my eyes since you all seem to agree that there is a layer of guilt in their response. I sure FELT it. They have helped me tremendously but at the same time I think they have gotten to enjoy Katie many times over more. I need to do what I need to do, at my own pace, no pressure. 

Obviously they don't want to lose Katie nor the money I pay (probably more the horse I reckon). They have trained and schooled her for free in their minds and she has improved a lot. @SteadyOn what is strange is in the email I sent them both I offered that X could come still ride Katie weekly (just obviously locally) and I would be open to her hauling her away for camp or something like a sharer. She can still hack out with current yard if she hauls her, just obviously they cover the cost. As for events/clinics I'd have more control obviously to look after Katie's physical and mental welfare... It's not as if I closed the door permanently? *X lives 15minutes from me.* The more I think about it the more I believe they are maybe milking it a bit because for X.. there's no real reason to be upset? If I were her I'd be ecstatic to be taken along.


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## Kalraii

@trailhorserider I also agree about the jumping thing. I always said I want to preserve her joints. I want to learn to jump because she enjoys it. But practising a jump course every week... I know to some it seems very little. But considering I'd be the one footing the vet bills. Thanks for bringing this up I forgot about this as well.

So much became normal. I'm beginning to become thoroughly excited at finally being able to call the shots. I'm more than happy for X and current yard to still be involved in her life. But I imagine actually that they likely wont go to the effort to... will see. I do think that they actually believe Katie is maybe not suitable for ME, not necessarily the field. But as I made it clear ... I have to try this. It might be a disaster but really.. I don't think so. 

Oh and move date is 31st @egrogan. It was the 26th but am flexible and I've been kind enough to allow them the take X to camp. Maybe too empathetic at times >.<


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## QtrBel

With that offer, you have as you do most often exceeded the generosity of many and put X in her place as sharer and not prentendtabe owner. 

Even if you never ride out alone if you are happy and satisfied in your ability to care for her, confident in handling and enjoying grooming, teaching tricks and walking - she is your horse to use as you please. 

If your goal were to exclusively ride and compete and she found not suitable then you would be doing you both a disservice keeping her and not finding suitable. At this point though you don't know the answer to how far you want to go and are capable of going because they did not offer any compensatory time building your confidence and skills. It was always easier to serve themselves first and say oops, sorry, no time for you.


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## horselovinguy

_Is it possible "X" is not aware of your offer?_
With the guilt-trip they have tried to lay on you they may not have shared with the girl your offer of come see, visit and occasionally ride her if you would like.
You know who she is, should have contact information hopefully directly to her...reach out to her but do so quietly and carefully and make sure she well understands _the limitations you choose_ she abides by or Katie is gone forever to her.
Also realize the yard may be vindictive enough toward "X" that there is a veiled threat if she keeps contact she will be out of the yard with them...

For you...do not offer of Katie to be used for just any outing, riding anytime or again you will be sitting on the side paying expenses and having no horse to ride as she is off for camp {horse camp is often sleep-over and weeks long}, off to a clinic or something or other...
_Katie is your horse, treat her a private possession..._
I would near treat her as sharing clothes...it is seldom and rare and certain things are off limits always!!


And don't ever let her be taken along with those from this barn...sorry,_* no.*_
Now the kid gloves are off Katie _*is*_ going to be treated differently by those in charge and that is not a good deal for your horse...
I know sadly what can happen from working the other side of the boarding/lesson barn business...
I've seen what happens and it can at times not be pretty.
Your "X" will have little control of said situation if they own the float...a mouse against the lion is not good for your horse.
You haven't even got Katie home, don't give her up so fast....
Sit on this and think very seriously of what you are contemplating...
:runninghorse2:...


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## SteadyOn

I just want to add, if you decide to reach out to X directly instead of through the barn, it would be best to do so AFTER you have moved Katie. If you make arrangements with her first, the current barn could try to involve themselves, and manipulate the situation, in ways that neither of you would want.


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## ACinATX

Yeah, that email is a classic. Wow. They are really laying on the guilt, aren't they?

Me personally, I am not a burning bridges type person. If it were me, I'd just write back that I appreciate their concern about Katie and the time they have spent with her. And while your mind is made up, if it turns out that she doesn't do well in this new environment, then you might bring her back. And reiterate that X can come ride her. Short and sweet.


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## Kalraii

@QtrBel you summed it up perfectly - I don't even know what I can do anymore or what I want or how far to go. I might just, in the end, prefer a pasture pet. But... I really do want to trail ride and work my way up to endurance (which was always meant to be horse B). But Katie might not be the right horse to work my way into that, although I think she is... This is like my last option to figure that out. She was handpicked for me by my coach/instructor, who refused to sell me any horse deemed too much. She test rode Katie solo hacking for a week before fully deciding that she was a good match. "Just enough horse for you" were her words exactly  I am just so fortunate that a space is available so close. People have been BEGGING to livery here because of its location and turnout, despite lack of facilities. Just the turnout offered alone along with supplementary hay when grazing isn't sufficient... I feel I'd be stupid to not try this. 


@horselovinguy you might have a good point that X might be pressured or at least feel it. It is so strange to think that they would treat her differently now - really hard to fathom because I'm just not like that. It's not the animals fault. I did email her directly as well with the same email, basically. I have a key to the premises so there would be no way to take Katie without my involvement anyway but I don't think they are like that. They only run horse camp once a year for the disabled volunteers/juniors if I recall correctly. X is a leader and takes them out on the trail. Insurance is a big deal and its not cheap so am not worried about that. They have a very important social media image and reputation to protect as well (they were opened by the royal family!). 
@SteadyOn I should probably send a text or something instead at a later date. I imagine right now she's not very happy with me. She maybe didn't get my email and only heard from YO. I might just let her know I've sent her one as well.

@ACinATX I am the same as you. I learned some harsh lessons that REALLY BIT ME IN THE BUTT when younger. And I think they maybe did take advantage and that I guess I can't blame them. I am disappointed but that's nothing new when it comes to humans most of the time eh?  


It has been killing me not being able to see Katie. I know to them I must seem unaffected or uninterested, that this came out of the blue, "typical full livery owner that isn't so involved" - but on my part, its not a lack of want. The setup was never easy with having to transport to the fields but I was ok with the sacrifice as it gave her good turnout... I'm OK with sharing. And we did share at the start... and then this. And covid. And they dropped the other facility (with a good reason, but still). I'm always looking at pictures of her in bed before falling asleep. Like every night. Because it was eating at me. Move and risk making her unhappy. Stay and I'm miserable. Move and see what happens? Something had to change.


Anyway. Typing this out, reading everything you all wrote has helped me be at peace with my decision at last. It has been eating away at me. Part of me is relieved that WORST CASE I have a home for her. I mean absolute worst case. But if they for some reason can't take us back (if it came to that) I do have a plan C and D. And I have a plan E. I already have numbers of farrier and vets locally. The door is open for X and I guess we'll see if its love born out of convenience or not. I mean, heck, I've had a relationship that was born out of convenience. The moment they got a new job the other side of the city it was bye bye! Didn't make it hurt any less though...


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## Celeste

I suspect that the barn owner is not only making money off of your board, she is also leasing out your horse to person X as well as charging for lessons to other people on her. 

Hire someone to haul your horse away from her. She can buy her own horse.


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## JCnGrace

@Kalraii you are a much nicer person than I am because I would not have agreed to leave her there for them to use for camp and I would not be offering X the option of riding Katie unless it was a lease deal where she was paying YOU for the privilege of riding. Sorry but I think they've brain washed you into thinking that everything that's been happening has been for Katie's benefit. I promise you it hasn't been for anyone's benefit except their own. 

It's not that I don't let other people ride my horses either but they sure as heck aren't going to take them out from under my watch. Not even my step-daughter was allowed to borrow one for the summer so the grandson could show her in walk/trot classes and thank goodness her father had the sense to back me up or it would have been a knock down, drag out fight.


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## MeditativeRider

I have not been on the forum for a while but glad I came back to read to this thread. I have followed most of your journey with Katie but never posted, and this gave me a little happy dance to hear you are bringing her where you can see her regularly. It was quite suspenseful reading through hoping that you were going to get her nearby, and then the field was not available, and then it was, oh happy days!

The current place are obviously passive aggressive people who are just looking out for their own needs. I would not be letting them take her for the extra 5 days for camp, and I would not be letting X on her again unless she was paying for a part share/lease. I also would not be ever taking her back there (great you have scoped out other options for backups) as I do not think they have ever been there to help you get more confident with or closer to your horse.

Forget them and focus on you and Katie enjoying your future together and building up your confidence and strength again. Give her lots of loving and post a celebratory pic of her enjoying her new field if you want to share when she is there.


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## Kalraii

Thank you @MeditativeRider. It's been raising my stress thats for sure! I am planning on starting a journal because it's a whole new first for me so you'll get pics 

I did end up sending a message to X letting her know I sent her an email in case she didn't get it first time around. Turns out she did. She messaged back saying she didn't know how to respond - but that she would be willing to buy Katie right there and then, send the money over immediately. That I could come ride and see Katie whenever I wanted. It reminded me of when I was younger and training bomb dogs. There was one dog I worked on for a year... I was on the floor sobbing my heart out. But it was property of the airline worth tens thousands now and if they wanted to send it up north they could... It just was never going to happen. Very undignified of me but you know how it can be when you're younger and less weathered. I feel sorry for X, despite everything. But I am at peace because she lives 15mins from me and I've kept the door open to her still being involved in Katie's life. I think in her position I would maybe not necessarily be happy, but I'd be relieved. 

It's kinda a strange moment for me. Because I was very strong willed (mellowed out a lot as life taught me some harsh lessons too young) I distinctly remember some people who I considered heartless and bitter for watching me cry and not giving in. Manipulative teenagers eh?! I didn't understand how they couldn't help me when I felt so hurt. But they just stood and waited. I feel like that now - like she is hurting, but she will be OK. I've experienced enough loss to know she will be OK. 

Anyway, I reiterated that I will still be moving. She can still take Katie to camp. And that she is more than welcome to still be involved in Katie's life. I think that's more than one could hope. I have most of you telling me I'm being too nice so I KNOW it!  I was planning on moving Switzerland this year but my partner and I broke up a year and a half ago. So for her, it could have been worse >.<


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## LoriF

Kalraii said:


> So an update... have just been passing time preparing myself. I finally sent the notice email out to the yard owner and X (staff member) who loves Katie and has been her main rider. It was a hard email to write. I received this response:
> 
> _"What a shame that you feel you need to move, it has worked so well with us looking after Katie and you putting her needs above your own all the time. We do love her so very much and she is one of the family now, I just wish we had got to know you as well as Katie. Katie certainly is thriving now and really happy in the herd.
> 
> It goes without saying that X is devastated, heart broken actually, she adores Katie.
> 
> I understand your position but obviously my concern is for Katie. Katie is not a good doer and my main concern is that she would not do well wintering out.
> 
> Is there anything we can do so you would reconsider? I do not want you to be unhappy of course but I just don't know if it would be the right environment for Katie in the winter months.
> 
> We will of course support and help you if that is the decision you stick with."_
> 
> 
> So thoughts? Obviously you all know I'm a stressy one :<


Wow! Just WOW!! Talk about laying on a guilt trip as thick as peanut butter. 

For starters, after an email like this, I would be moving her on the 25th. A day before, not days after. Seriously, I wouldn't do it. Too bad for their camp and plans with Katie. Those are plans that they shouldn't have been making in the first place. This email here just seals it for me as to how selfish they are and I would have lost any trust that might have been there.

Translation of first paragraph of email: What a shame that we will no longer have an all expense paid meal ticket to use. Don't get us wrong as we do love Katie. The comment "I just wish we had got to know you as well as Katie" precariously sounds like "you are never here anyway"

X is heartbroken. Aaaannd? Like you are not with Katie being so far away and them not allowing you to see her but once a week at best. Well, ownership trumps so there's that. I personally would think long and hard about X using Katie as she is doing now. If you want to extend out to her to come and see Katie and maybe hack out with her now and again that would probably be fine. But, I would not extend out to her the same usage as currently being done. I would reach out to her, not through the Y/O. Also, you are risking her coming to see her and reporting back talking crap about you and Katie's care. That may or may not happen. Either way, I would not mention X's usage again to the Y/O.

About Katie not being a well doer is just a bunch of BS. We all know better. She's a horse. My horses are out 24/7 and they are just fine, they truly are. I very rarely need to use a stall. I think your biggest concern for Katie is her feet and you have a solution for that. If it's cold and rainy, you cover her to keep her dry. Those would be my only two concerns about her being out all of the time. You will see, she is going to love being out and being with other horses all of the time instead of being cooped up. 

"Is there anything we can do so you would reconsider? I do not want you to be unhappy of course but I just don't know if it would be the right environment for Katie in the winter months." 
Just doesn't matter what they think, she's not their horse. And honestly, Y/O doesn't care whether you are happy or not, she has already shown this to you with no uncertainty. Words are words, what she has shown you is something completely different. 

I would write them and tell them that you changed your mind and that you are picking Katie up originally as planned on the 26th. Logistics won''t allow for waiting until the end of the month. I then would get her on the 25th.

I'm going to get into something that really isn't any of my business but want to mention it as I can be the same way. Whenever you think of opening you mouth to offer something to someone, DON'T. Wait a little bit and think it over first. You seem like you are a generous person and like to share your stuff. Sometimes if you share too much, people take advantage.

There are two things that make me really mad. One is people being mean to me or seeing it done to someone else. Second is I hate when people try to manipulate others for their own benefit completely disregarding the effects that it has on the other. Just makes me angry. 

I'm really looking forward to you getting Katie back in your hands. Both of you will enjoy each others company so much. Katie is going to thrive in her new environment, just watch. I'm excited for you.

Oh, and I didn't see one "THANK YOU" to you and how generous you have been in allowing them to use Katie as they wished. What's up with that? A bit of self entitlement maybe?


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## LoriF

You know Kalraii, there is nothing wrong with being nice and there is nothing wrong with being generous. But, what happens a lot of times is when you can no longer give, the other person acts like you are taking something away from them instead of being happy that they have had such a wonderful opportunity while it lasted. 

This is what seems to be happening with the current yard owner. Honestly, an email sent back to you should have said something more like this:

"Kalraii, We are so disappointed to see Katie go as we love her so much. We do understand that you love her as well and why you would want her to be closer to you. I want to thank you for how generous you have been in extending your trust in us and the use of Katie as she is a wonderful horse to be around.
X is just heartbroken to see her go as she has become so attached to Katie. Maybe you can find it in your heart to let her down easily. Maybe offer her to come visit her now and again.

Once again, we have loved having Katie here and if you ever need to keep her with us again, we would be more than happy to have her here. If there is anything you need to help with Katie's transition, don't hesitate to ask."

THAT is the kind of email you should have received back!!!
Instead, what you received was a bunch of selfish, guilt tripping, you won't be able to offer Katie as good of a life as we have, we care more about her than you BS. 

Sorry, it just doesn't set well with me.


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## LoriF

And.... X's response? Well, if her being able to come see Katie is not good enough for her, then what makes her think that it would be good enough for you?


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## SwissMiss

LoriF said:


> And.... X's response? Well, if her being able to come see Katie is not good enough for her, then what makes her think that it would be good enough for you?


I was thinking the same. 

So X is a teenager? That would explain her reaction a bit. But still... 

And I was wondering, @Kalraii, how long do you know about camp? When you planned moving her the 26th, I assume nobody told you about camp before you mentioned the date of the move?
If that is the case I am getting angry on your behalf again :shock:, because it just shows how much consideration was given what YOU want to do with YOUR horse...
If it is like I suspect, I would cancel camp and move Katie asap...


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## LoriF

@SwissMiss I agree. I honestly believe it's in the best interest of Katie and Kalraii to move her as originally planned.


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## Kalraii

SwissMiss said:


> I was thinking the same.
> 
> So X is a teenager? That would explain her reaction a bit. But still...
> 
> And I was wondering, @Kalraii, how long do you know about camp? When you planned moving her the 26th, I assume nobody told you about camp before you mentioned the date of the move?
> If that is the case I am getting angry on your behalf again :shock:, because it just shows how much consideration was given what YOU want to do with YOUR horse...
> If it is like I suspect, I would cancel camp and move Katie asap...


She's 24 actually. She messaged me again saying that her family would help her buy Katie from me. Like its real desperation right now. I don't know how many times I can point out its not about the money :< 

They went camp last year and I got photos. I knew it was around this time just didn't know the exact dates. They asked me permission at the start of the year and I said yes so I've known about it. That's ok. I wouldn't have agreed if it was a last minute event I wasn't even aware of.


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## Kalraii

LoriF said:


> And.... X's response? Well, if her being able to come see Katie is not good enough for her, then what makes her think that it would be good enough for you?


Yeah that's pretty much my feels and I think I've been really open and gracious about the whole thing. I know she's upset but she has 3 more weeks with her basically and lives 15 mins away. I think because I've been sick and with covid there is maybe the misconception that I don't care about Katie or am not invested. Out of sight out of mind sort of thing. 

It'll all work out I'm sure. Katie probably will be stressed on the day of the move as the lorry with all her friends pulls away but I'll be there for her for as long as she needs. I'm really not so good at dealing with crying in person though. I just shut down and stand there like a pleb ><


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## SwissMiss

Kalraii said:


> She's 24 actually. She messaged me again saying that her family would help her buy Katie from me. Like its real desperation right now. I don't know how many times I can point out its not about the money :<


:eek_color: That kind of behavior I would have expected from someone 10 years younger.... I must be too old and grouchy...

I get that she is devastated - been there done that. It happens if you don't own the horse... It really sucks, but it is time to move on.
Politely tell her "one last time, Katie is NOT FOR SALE no matter what!" and leave it at that... Except, I would get mad enough if she would keep on carrying on that I would bring Katie to her new place early and cancel camp. Again, I am too old and grumpy and have been taken advantage too many times, so the kid gloves have come off and sometimes I am just through with being nice


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## egrogan

SwissMiss said:


> She is NOT FOR SALE no matter what!" and leave it at that... Except, I would get mad enough if she would keep on carrying on that I would bring Katie to her new place early and cancel camp.


^^Yes...

I'm not generally a suspicious or paranoid person, but given the increasing level of desperation you're hearing, I would be so hesitant to let them take your horse to this off-site horse camp. For a week you said? I just have this sinking feeling that you're going to hear about an injury, or an accident, and then suddenly Katie is in a position where she's in need of intensive vetting that requires stabling throughout the summer and into the fall. 

Again, not usually a paranoid person- but in this case, I just don't like the idea of them taking her away. Why don't you invite yourself along to camp with Katie so you can supervise that she goes where they say she's going and does what you think she's doing? You and X can swap off ride time, either by the day or switching morning/afternoon sessions. 

I think they're not really getting it that this horse is YOURS, and are panicking at losing their prized plaything and will end up trying to get "all she's worth" out of her on this outing.


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## Acadianartist

LoriF said:


> I'm going to get into something that really isn't any of my business but want to mention it as I can be the same way. Whenever you think of opening you mouth to offer something to someone, DON'T. Wait a little bit and think it over first. You seem like you are a generous person and like to share your stuff. Sometimes if you share too much, people take advantage.


THIS!!! I am guilty of this as well. Have gotten myself into some awkward situations by doing it too. People take and rarely give back, and then they take more, and then you want to say STOP, but you realize you opened the door in the first place. Just don't. It almost never works out for the best. Only with those who give just as much, or more than you, can this work out. Everyone else just takes. 

Sure, she can visit Katie. But Katie is your horse. I just can't wrap my head around someone thinking they can act like a horse belongs to them when they don't own the horse. I hear these stories, but quite honestly, it baffles me. As long as the animal is not yours, you should not be thinking you will live with it happily-ever-after. You're just borrowing it. She has no right to Katie. Even less right to send you on a guilt trip and make you think that Katie will be miserable at her new place. It's not like they have the monopoly on good horse care. A horse needs space, food, shelter, and water, and lots of love. Not camping trips, stalls or fancy tack. 

She's probably not so much upset that Katie will be out of her life as she is that Katie will be at a different barn, and now she can't ride with her friends on Katie. She'll just have to use a different horse. Katie is not hers. Period. She has no right to send you on a guilt trip, and she should be incredibly grateful to you for allowing her to visit.


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## LoriF

SwissMiss said:


> :eek_color: That kind of behavior I would have expected from someone 10 years younger.... I must be too old and grouchy...
> 
> I get that she is devastated - been there done that. It happens if you don't own the horse... It really sucks, but it is time to move on.
> Politely tell her "one last time, Katie is NOT FOR SALE no matter what!" and leave it at that... Except, I would get mad enough if she would keep on carrying on that I would bring Katie to her new place early and cancel camp. Again, I am too old and grumpy and have been taken advantage too many times, so the kid gloves have come off and sometimes I am just through with being nice



Right? She's acting like Katie is being drug off to the slaughter house or something. It's not even like she won't ever see her again as the offer to her has been made. It's more than that. She wants it the way she wants it and the horse is not hers to make that happen. I guess you get to make that happen when you are paying the bills. I personally would start becoming uncomfortable with the desperation and go get my mare early. But I'm sure Kalraii that you know these people better than we so go with your gut.

I know we are sounding kind of paranoid, but I'm sure some of us have seen some stuff and the things people will do.


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## SwissMiss

LoriF said:


> I know we are sounding kind of paranoid, but I'm sure some of us have seen some stuff and the things people will do.


Sadly enough I have to agree...


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## QtrBel

Katie is the fulfillment of one of my life dreams. Much thought and effort went into her purchase and arrangements for care once she arrived. There has been little consideration and accommodation for me to enjoy my horse while under your care. It is now time for me to enjoy my horse on my time. She is not for sale at this point.


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## horselovinguy

My gut is in a uproar and has been since you have let more be known Kalraii.
This entire thing of Katie being taken off for a camp situation, the "heartbroken" girl offers to buy, was told no sale and now she comes back with my family will give more....no meant no.
My warning hairs on neck are on end...high alert.
It may be nothing, it could be something...
I _don't_ ignore my gut reactions and feelings....I did once, never again!

The fact is the girl is _not_ happy and comes across as she wants what she wants or no one else can have...
People like this can stoop to low-levels and although I pray she is not like that...
I would _not_ be allowing Katie to go to camp, nor would the girl have the opportunity to ride her unless you were present and watching anymore.
The entire situation smells rancid to me... it stinks. :|
I wonder if the barn led this girl on that you were/are a absent owner who doesn't give a rats butt about this animal that is why you were never around. :|
With all that was in that email, you have no idea of what she was led to believe, maybe even that the barn partially owned Katie and she could partial-lease her...the barn sure used her and wrote like she was their possession and guilt tripping you to make you back down....the girl is doing the same thing.
Straighten your back, pull up the panties and garter belt, now tighten the belt and make arrangements that Katie comes home ahead of the date everyone so far thinks she is leaving on.
YOU OWN KATIE, her bills are paid and you are entitled to remove her when you wish.
Notice has already been given she is leaving, it is your right to remove your horse when you want, not to cater to some girl and barn who is guilt-tripping you yet...
They are giving you a emotional blackmail and you're allowing it.
You won't get a refund, you weren't looking for one...so just cut and leave.

Take this the way it is written _*not*_ that it is going to happen...
What if Katie coliced and was euthanized the day before she was to go to camp....it happens.
The girl would be upset, she would either take a different barn horse or stay home...
Other arrangements would be made and the girl will deal with it, get over Katie and instead of falling for another privately owned horse, suddenly she might now find that she should buy her own instead.
I'm saying, _they are playing your emotions. You are being strummed like a guitar._

_Why if the farm is ready for Katie to come are you not bringing her home for her well-being now..._
If you have the ability, the transport is able to go just about any time would you not get her home_ for you..._
I'm not understanding the hesitation to bring her home after the email you were sent when you gave notice of leaving.

Now after connecting with the girl, yes I _am_ concerned for Katie at the farm she is boarded at for "camp" and the interim before camp at the barn, she will not be treated as nicely as you seem to think she will. :frown_color:
Vengeful actions are easily done_ to your horse _as a back-at-you, show-you....:eek_color:
Katie absolutely would *not* be left at that barn one day more than she has to be, nor would she be off to camp where unknown riding conditions present that you took a prior risk of, now the risk is greater because she is losing the horse so why not...
People do dumb things and the easiest victim is Katie to inflict it on...
Just beware and be careful...you may "know" these people cause she rode your horse in a controlled environment in front of others at a barn where Katie was a money-earner for them, a big money-earner.
How much, how well do you really know these people and this girl... :|

I hope I'm very wrong, but you are speaking of leaving the horse for weeks yet at this place in their care and them possibly still using her....heck no, to much from cutting her food to minimum amounts to overriding her, to using incorrect tack, to abusive handling...
_I've seen it happen with my own eyes,_ it happened to horses when owners gave notice of leaving a facility..._the animal suffered._
_*Then it happened to me, *to my own horse when I resigned my job, gave notice my horse would have to leave because I could not afford full board..._
_My horse lost hundreds of pounds in 2.5 weeks..he barely was fed._
_Vindictive people exist and take out actions on defenseless animals as their victim. I know firsthand about what can occur...
_
Please reconsider and think this very carefully.
If Katie was mine and that new facility is ready for her...she would be home in 2 days time.
Lorry pulls in and you get out with the driver.
Driver opens the lorry, you then both walk in the barn with a halter and shank, {yours may disappear overnight so go prepared} gather your belongings that have been their for them to use...tack, grooming, blankets...put those items in the lorry. 
Hand Katie to the driver to load cause you _are_ going to be a emotional wreck and Katie is going to pick up on it and fret, fuss and possibly act up on it...
_Recheck for anything left behind, there is no going back...yes the bridge is a inferno and gone now._
Go to the back and get Katie settled if she is already not ready to go...she is a experienced traveler remember.
Katie may whinny once or twice as you leave the barn..._*and its over!*_
Otherwise there will be no fretting when she unloads at the new place as the lorry drives off.....
Katie will be looking around at her new surroundings, with new smells and horses whinnying hello pretty lady to her. 
Bet you will have more a prancing, dancing horse snorting and making a display of look-at-me.

I can't not put my emotions to this Kalraii as I lived the horror of what people can do to a animal, a trusting animal.
I only say get out now so no one can inflict on Katie what my horse endured...
I can not ever forget what was done to my beautiful boy...and I never want another to go through such a thing, ever!
:runninghorse2:...


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## Acadianartist

I trust most people. But I have to agree with everyone else that now that you've given notice, it would be best to move Katie sooner rather than later. 

I don't think they will treat her badly, but she may be treated different. Cancel the camp. What if she gets injured? She's your horse. She doesn't know that she's supposed to go to a camp, and doesn't care. X may be upset about it, but it doesn't help to drag it out either. Rip it off like a Bandaid. 

X's behavior, and the barn owner suggesting they know what's best for Katie moreso than you do, is frankly disrespectful to you. This isn't about you not wanting to share, it's about them not wanting to let you have access to your own horse!!! You have been far too generous and to pay you back, they tell you not to come to the barn unless you have an appointment to see your horse, then guilt you into letting them do whatever they want because "Katie's happier there". I'd be fuming. And I'm Canadian - it's pretty hard to get us riled up!


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## MeditativeRider

It sounds like it is pretty much guaranteed it's going to be messy and emotional because they are obviously not going to make it easy. It's fine to stand there like a pleb if there are tears. Better than offering things in condolence that you may later regret. Just say nothing. You do not have to. This comes from someone who is a conflict avoider and always trying to make everyone happy. I would have to be standing there reminding myself that it was not my job to make them happy with the situation.

If it was me, as a naturally anxious/imposter syndrome-suffering person, I would get myself out of that situation asap just so I could be in an environment that allowed me to develop confidence in myself rather than being where people make me feel that I am not good enough. Also, I would move her so that I would not have to worry. Maybe nothing will happen and she will be fine there for the rest of the month and at camp, but I would sure be sitting at home eating myself up with worry the entire time and that would do nothing for my mental or physical health (particularly if I was trying to recover from Covid at the same time). Surely there is another horse from the barn that X can ride at camp?


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## QtrBel

Look at it this way - moving her now gives X time to adjust to another horse.


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## MeditativeRider

You have so many comments on this, you probably don't need more, but for now to keep your mind occupied with good things, I would:
1) Find a support person to go with you to the yard/barn to get Katie if you can with Covid restrictions.
2) Sort out your gear and feed at home/the new field for her.
3) Clear out and make any changes to the garage that you need to.
4) Make whatever appointments you need to/can to go get her/your stuff at the current yard/barn that they won't be needing for day to day care until she leaves.

And most of all, just retain confidence in you, don't let them knock you back more than they already have.

I had something similar but not with horse 4 years ago when I decided to start homeschooling my then 8 year old as public school was not a good environment for her. I had many many people straight out say I was pretty much going to ruin her life as I was not a trained teacher. What about socializing, her friends at school etc. And you know what, it has all been absolutely fine. We have not failed. 

On failure, the idea that you could "fail" should not stop anyone from trying, just as long as you are aware of what the signs would be of that and you are willing and know where to ask for help, or at the worst, have a back-up option (ours was obviously to go back to public school). To his credit, my daughter's school principal was a professional about it and just emailed "thank you for letting us know, we have enjoyed having [your daughter] as part of our school, I am sure she will continue to thrive in her learning at home", which is really what your current yard/barn should be doing. Their entire email is just wrong.


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## gottatrot

I also agree with the others and feel offended over this situation. They were so lucky to get to use your nice horse, and now they are trying to make you feel guilty? That is very low.

As for X, I think it's time for her to find a horse of her own. She reminds me of a friend in her 20s who would fall desperately in love with one horse, then another. She'd try to figure out all kinds of schemes where she could have the horse, convince the owner into selling her, believing she was the one the horse truly was bonded with. When it didn't pan out, she'd be upset but would be infatuated with a different horse in several weeks. 
I personally loved a horse I took lessons on, and also another horse my cousin loaned me for a while. Neither one was available for me to purchase, and soon I bought a horse of my own, which was a far better thing anyway.

I also have seen horses that were treated poorly by seemingly ethical barn owners once it was known they would be leaving. I was kicked by a horse in a field, and found out the horse was very grumpy because she was used to being brought in each night and fed with the other horses. Since she was leaving the barn soon, the barn owner had given her stall away and was leaving her out at night alone, and not feeding her grain. So when I walked into the field with treats and only fed my horse, she kicked me. 

If there is any inkling of bad feelings with a barn situation, I'd suggest leaving ASAP.


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## tinyliny

I would like to say, that I would spare a bit more empathy and understanding for "X" and her making an offer, twice, to buy Katie.


I would not take that as insulting, or offensive. In fact, it may be considered a compliment. Consider that all this time, she has been allowed to ride Katie, by a kind and permissive owner. There is not any reason that she would expect this to suddenly change, and when things did, it's not surprising that she would be upset at her loss, something she may not truly understand the full background of. 

She probably does care about Katie, and while naive, she may not of concieved that things were in any way 'wrong' the way they were, all along. Since the owner of Katie did not make that apparent, one cannot blame her for her naivete. 



I would offer some empathy and best wishes for future prospects, and thank her for putting some good rides on the horse.


As to the new place . . it looks rather nice. I am sure it must be more than 2 acres. perhaps I read that wrong.


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## Kalraii

I really needed to sleep on this. 

Meanwhile I received this response from the YO:

_Thank you for the reply.
I am sure this has been a difficult decision for you and on your mind for a long time.
Of course the door is always open here for you and Katie, and we remain your supportive friends.
Camp ends on the Friday so let me know what you prefer, either Friday evening or the weekend?
I think you know X's Dad has offered to buy Katie if your circumstances change and you know she would have a home here for life._


I know from an outside perspective for those that haven't met the YO or interacted/observed the establishment how it looks. And believe me when I say if this was a "run-of-the-mill" livery yard that only cared about the $ I would be getting out. But I also bear in mind that this is one of the most prestigious riding for the disabled association schools in the city, opened by the royal family. The lady that hand-picked and sold Katie to me & my favourite seasoned instructor, also a riding school owner, supply and train RDA horses around the South. They have worked with, supplied for and competed regularly with current YO who has transported her lot to use instructors facilities & stables. Current YO moves snails out of harms way and often gets flagged by vets for having too many overfed "fatties", very empathetic in person, all her staff are really. She takes on more rescues than she should considering she has a business to run but they are well cared for, fostered and then re-homed as trained citizens. I've watched other liveries come and go- none with a bad reason. Most just moving across country. She sold one of her horses after a lengthy trial-share period after deciding he just wasn't happy there. And she has a few rescue, geriatrics and young horses only pasture sound in her care (was present for quite a few of the vet assessments, waiting for Katie's turn), again, all well cared for. This is a woman that is known for being extremely strict and considered "over-the-top" when it comes to insurance and protocols and very proud of her reputation. I just think as a person and a business owner she is far too good-hearted and sensible to do anything to sour this. 

Now did they take advantage of my generosity and forgot there even was a forest for the trees? Yeah. Definitely. Let's not talk about the money (wince). They might have not done completely right by me but given that the arrangement was already a bit limited (Katie having to be taken out the city for turnout with the herd) I can't attribute it ALL to her. Some of it was me being sick or needing downtime to recover and maybe that my absence was misinterpreted, consciously or otherwise. Some of it is me being hesitant and struggling with my mental health at times (had a lot happen this year) which didn't help in maybe putting my foot down or putting myself first, earlier. I can't deny that while they definitely invested themselves into Katie that they have taken care of her. I've seen how my first yard treated liveries where the owner wasn't able to be present. What a *sad* life. I really did see how even if paid for, the horse was only given the _bare minimum_ in feed & bed because who was checking up on them? Yes, current yard were jumping and going out and about but its definitely preferable to receiving the bare minimum but they did send me lots of videos/pictures and updates, even videos of her snoozing in the field. Ofc it broke my heart not to be involved but I got by reminding myself it could be worse. Whenever I see Katie she is bright eyed, in great condition and happy. 

So... that's my thought process. But I'm definitely taking into account everything you've all said and wont be entirely throwing caution to the wind. X is very emotional and I know that the YO must be under a lot of pressure as a business owner to retain such a well fitting horse in her string and for X, who she had assigned as Katie's primary caregiver (she gives all her staff a specific horse to care for as far as I'm aware). *So my responding two emails(which is all true btw):

*_I am really grateful and overwhelmed for the love you and X have for Katie. It’s a big relief to know if things don’t work out that Katie has a loving home she could go to. I know it must be really hard to lose her and I remembered that camp was around my birthday so told the farmer originally that Katie would be expected at the end of the month-ish even though everyone is eager to meet her. Fortunately the farmer agreed to let me pay for livery this month at the farm just to hold the spot to buy you guys time for camp and a chance to love on her some more before moving. I imagine a weekend day would be better – I’m happy to agree on Sunday if X wanted one last day with her at yours or if you think it might be better to just rip the band aid off and come over Saturday am/noon immediately after camp? Just want enough daylight to monitor everything…

Just wanted to confirm that it is ok that Katie stays with you until camp? If it’s a problem you can bring her down here any day as already paid for this month. I am fine with you having a few more weeks with her, however, but should have really asked if it was ok, given the financial situation & covid. Got caught up in the emotional response as expected. 

_


She responded that she is fine with having Katie until camp, as expected.


What I haven't added is that I will be taking some trips down there and to the field to check on Katie. I'll be taking pictures and videos as well before camp, including her weight, posting on here, too. In my heart I don't think its truly necessary but as I am responsible and you are all sitting on my head and screaming I will be taking action and be more involved over the next three weeks to monitor. If the whole buying thing escalates or something is fishy I will be running and do have transport backup arranged, if needed.


I am also quickly getting things together that if it does happen she comes down tomorrow I am prepared. 

I am grateful for all of you really yanking my chain over this. I needed the wakeup call. I wont let myself be in this position again. You bet I'm gonna give it my all when she's here  xx


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## Acadianartist

That's a very sensible approach. We can all jump to conclusions easily from a distance, without knowing all these people. I think your back-up plan of checking on Katie is an excellent one. You're being very kind and generous to everyone. Hopefully they will return the favour. 

I look forward to your happy posts when Katie is finally in her new home!!!


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## horselovinguy

I'm glad you had time to think about all our messages and kicks in the butt we gave you...
Sorry from me as mine was without doubt heavy-handed but laden with truth and facts I learned the hard way with my own horse...and yes, my horse was at a very prestigious facility and a well-known & respected trainer who owned that facility.
These next few weeks, Covid be darned...
I would make it my mission to get down to see Katie several times a week, sometimes more than once in a day...never the same time and yes,_ intentionally keep them guessing._
You indeed need to gather all her belongings you have their and take them home now, before the move-date arrives so you don't forget anything.
Its great that you think highly of the B/O and her methods of caring for horses in her care...
But remember, Katie is no longer in her care...she is leaving and that does change emotional commitment to her and that can change everything else that follows.
Make sure you stay strong, are very observant and watch, ask questions of their feeding plan, the amounts of food fed, how often and the brand specific so as little changes right now for when you bring her home as is possible for a smooth transition.
Getting information, watching how they do and how Katie acts/responds at feeding time is good insight for you for when she comes home to you you would pick up quickly on changes if changes occur to thwart any problems.
If Katie needs anything updated in her medical, now is the time to complete it...ASAP.
Reach out to your current vet and ask if they service the new area and will she please remain her vet of choice or a suggestion of who to contact for routine, forget emergent care issues is needed done.
Same for the farrier who has done well with Katie it seems. Again, if out of their area a suggestion of who to go to for continued good care.. 

Get Katies feet done as close to the time of move so it gives you a bit of a time cushion to find that farrier and get fit in the new schedule since your location just changed.
Above all else, spend time with your girl so she and you rekindle your bond of recognition and coming to you as a field is a large area to track down and catch your horse if she is "difficult"...

Your email was exceptionally sweet and polite.
I admit to being like a bull in the china-shop, not eloquent in my writings as _*is*_ known here... :icon_rolleyes:
It *is* how I am,, but I also advocate for my animals and people who surround me with equal force...
Do what is comfortable for you but this is your horse and your right to take her home where she will be and is going to flourish with your loving care..
Stay strong, do not waver and don't apologize for any of your actions of leaving...
As others have said, this two-way street could of worked for a long time yet if accommodations on their part of the bargain remembered you were the owner and had rights...you still have those rights to exercise too right up to and including when "camp" is...
If you don't like what you see, feel or pick up vibes on....*get out.*
Now, I'll simmer down, be a nag to keep you on course for mission accomplished status to commence. 
Looking forward to the start of that journal...all of this would make a great first entry condensed as would your last entry to _our new journey begins._ :hug:
:runninghorse2:...


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## QtrBel

Where was her good heartedness and sensibility it came to accommodating your needs as owner and one footing the bills and not souring your experience to the point where moving her became a necessity? I am also not a fan of entitled youth.



I don't like burning bridges and you are there with boots on the ground. We are not. You've got a plan in place to oversee her care until the move date and that is a good thing. Why though the sudden change in attitude about you being on site? Would they allow you to ride during this time? Include you in outings? I guess I still don't understand how they would consider it any way fair to you to not offer compensation for their use of Katie but water under the bridge as you have made arrangements to move. Here it is more common part of boarding and instructing either a paid lease is arranged for or if used in a lesson program with or with out specific student in mind some sort of compensation occurs to the owner.


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## gottatrot

It sounds like you know the people involved well and have enough experience with them to trust them to take good care of your mare until she leaves. I would trust yourself on that.

Just realize that you are also giving them a lot of credit and positiveness for things that might not be all wonderful. Saying this as a very "Polyanna" person who tends to look on the bright side until forced not to. 

What I mean is that as a new horse owner for several years I was happy to have take charge stable owners who seemed to know everything about taking care of horses. Later I understood that it wasn't always good to have others strongly opinionated about my horse's care, because after more experience and learning I began to have different opinions than they did. 

In my case, a similar barn owner who rescued horses and was very much concerned with their welfare would not stop overfeeding my horse to the point of obesity. She believed horses should have as much as they can eat, even if the hay is rich and the horse has a pony metabolism. After a time I learned that some of the most well respected horse people may have some practices that are not in horses' best interests, especially if they have so much experience they begin to think they know everything, or begin to think of horses as philosophies rather than individuals. 

In the end, you will be the best one to make decisions for your horse.


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## LoriF

Yeah, some of us got a little aggressive but for good reason. I've seen how people can turn into idiots when something is being taken away that they thought was going to last forever. I get it how X feels but the bottom line is she is your horse and you should be enjoying her presence. Stay optimistic with caution. We just don't want to see Katie or you getting hurt and we can see how people have attempted to manipulate to have it their way.

I'm sure everything will work out the way it's supposed to. Good vibes thrown your way


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## Acadianartist

As per @QrtrBel's comments, in my part of the world, boarders' horses get used all the time for lessons without any compensation. I'm not sure it's right or fair, but that's how it is. The logic is that it's better for the horses to get regular exercise and schooling. Some BO's act like they're doing you a huge favour by keeping your horse in lessons. 

I also want to reinforce what @gottatrot said. I also trusted my first and second BO completely. That went out the window pretty quickly when I became more educated. Not that I'm suggesting that is the case for you @Kalraii, I just thought I'd add that over the last few years of having horses at home, it's been a steep learning curve for me. One of the most important things I've learned is that no one is an expert on everything. My daughter's coach is a great riding coach, but she knows nothing about tack fitting or nutrition. My trimmer has taught me how to trim my horses' hooves, which I don't do on a regular basis, but which came in very useful when I had to touch up Harley before a show (he had chips). I follow an online trainer for liberty training and ground work. I have an equine nutritionist who is my vitamin and supplement guru. Being a good horse owner isn't about knowing everything, it's about knowing who knows what and asking the right person for the right advice.


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## Kalraii

OK you guys will love this. For the first time... blood has rushed to my face. I nearly choked on my chicken with the flash of rage. 

I have been asked that I need to cover livery for the week at camp. Which would be £144. 
Livery ends on the 26th. Katie would be brought down on the 1st. That means I would have to cover 6 days & that *doesn't* include cost of transport.

So. I basically said I was hoping camp would end before my last paid day. If she presses it I'll offer X if she would like to pay that week. Otherwise I'll just bring her down tomorrow. I can't afford that.. I mean I can but its not as if I have money to throw around :/ Sheeeesh.

edit: this is last chance btw. This is basically how far they had to push me >.< Why does it have to come to this?


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## egrogan

I have no words...except _move tomorrow_!


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## SwissMiss

egrogan said:


> I have no words...except _move tomorrow_!


Ditto!

My jaw literally hit the keyboard reading this!

MOVE TOMORROW!!!!!

edited to add: milking it to the last drop  :shock:


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## Kalraii

Thing is yesterday I did ask her to confirm if she was OK having Katie at camp and for the next fortnight, due to finances and covid. She said yes 100%. She's normally quite "on it" so figured that was done and dusted... maybe she replied without properly thinking it through is all I can assume. This place is significantly cheaper where I'm moving but I still am having to buy all the things I never needed before - a *comprehensive *first aid kit, storage, feed, extra hay & haylage, wheelbarrow, fork, buckets etc all the little things that I never needed during full livery. I simply cannot justify paying for someone else's holiday on my horse lol.


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## SwissMiss

Kalraii said:


> I simply cannot justify paying for someone else's holiday on my horse lol.


This hits the nail on the head. You are asked to pay, so someone else can enjoy YOUR horse...

I can't wrap my head around how someone could even think this is fine... But one doesn't know if it works until trying :wink: Glad you are standing your ground!


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## Horsef

Kalraii said:


> OK you guys will love this. For the first time... blood has rushed to my face. I nearly choked on my chicken with the flash of rage.
> 
> I have been asked that I need to cover livery for the week at camp. Which would be £144.
> Livery ends on the 26th. Katie would be brought down on the 1st. That means I would have to cover 6 days & that *doesn't* include cost of transport.
> 
> So. I basically said I was hoping camp would end before my last paid day. If she presses it I'll offer X if she would like to pay that week. Otherwise I'll just bring her down tomorrow. I can't afford that.. I mean I can but its not as if I have money to throw around :/ Sheeeesh.
> 
> edit: this is last chance btw. This is basically how far they had to push me >.< Why does it have to come to this?


I am livid on your behalf! 

They truly are burning bridges now - and all the advice on this thread about YOU not burning bridges...
I cannot wrap my brain around this situation at all.
What a bunch of entitled, delusional, greedy people.


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## QtrBel

No, NO excuses. This seems to be and has been the standard operating procedure for this group. At this point NO, just NO to the whole your horse on holiday with another rider. X needs to get used to an new horse any way. Rip the bandaid and move on. Let the BO provide that horse.


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## Horsef

And don't you dare waste a single more second thinking about these people. Brain cells use a lot of energy, and that energy comes from food, and food costs money. Don't spend one single cent more on these people. Plus, there is wear and tear on brain cells. Just get your horse and be done with them for good. Literally, block them on everything and erase them from your head.
Sheesh!


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## carshon

I have kept quiet on this thread as others had already expressed how I felt. Your last post made me absolutely spit my tea out! How dare they ask for you to cover livery for "X" to use Katie at camp. You have been more than generous with your horse. I read your posts and always wondered how you were not charging "X" for a partial lease and then this? 

I know you must be tired of us telling you that you are being taken advantage of, but this just proves that they really just see you as a bank. Move Katie as quickly as you can. If X wants to use her for camp then she can pay livery and the cost to move Katie. 

You have been kind, empathetic and generous to a fault. Now they are just taking advantage of your goodness.


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## horselovinguy

Kalraii said:


> OK you guys will love this. For the first time... blood has rushed to my face. I nearly choked on my chicken with the flash of rage.
> 
> I have been asked that I need to cover livery for the week at camp. Which would be £144.
> Livery ends on the 26th. Katie would be brought down on the 1st. That means I would have to cover 6 days & that *doesn't* include cost of transport.
> 
> So. I basically said I was hoping camp would end before my last paid day. If she presses it I'll offer X if she would like to pay that week. Otherwise _*I'll just bring her down tomorrow. *_I can't afford that.. I mean I can but its not as if I have money to throw around :/ Sheeeesh.
> 
> _*edit: this is last chance btw. This is basically how far they had to push me >.< Why does it have to come to this?*_


You're kidding us right....
Please say this is a joke...
*Your horse* you generously were going to allow the barn and "X" to use for camp, a away camp at that that you probably would be restricted from being on premise to see your horse.
Now you are being told _you must_ cover the cost of the animal and transport for someone else to ride and have the pleasure of using your horse...
So what is the entitled 24 year old "brat", yes she is a entitled brat paying for...answer is not much and she should be paying for all of it, every last penny!
She should also be paying for the ship to your new location since she was so generously offered the horse to use for free..


Rage...._Rage_... RAGE, *you want to see RAGE!!*

_*When are you going to say enough is enough...*_
How much more are you going to take before you get angry enough to tell them all to stuff it, call your back-up ship and say we go now!!

_*It's time Kalraii...*_
It is long past time to be angry and stop allowing them to use you as their money pit and your animal for their gains..
_No more, no more...*no more!!*_

I'm sad you are even considering this by how you wrote the post...I sense it.
_*You owe them nothing*, absolutely nothing._
They have pushed to far to often and this time enraged, outraged and done forever is the words in my mind..
You think this barn has such a stellar reputation...
_I beg to differ on that_ with the demands placed at you yet they reap the $$ and think all is good by sending a flowery sweet message the other day.
They set you up and you're falling for it...
_*SUCKER is stamped all over you..*_

Gone, the horse if it were mine would be pulled tomorrow morning with no contact made prior.
Arrive with the ship you had as back-up, remove any and all tack/equipment don't care if it is on another horse, remove any rider from your horse and put that tack on the floor where you tell the rider to get off...if its yours take the horse tacked up with you...
Once you have your things, load and leave....

_Get the heck out now, no more being sweet and feeling bad for "X"..._
Till you stand-up to them and get a backbone you can and will have fingers bleeding your pocket dry..
How dare they...rage is a understatement you should feel.
_*ACTION NOW TAKEN IS WHAT THEIR SWEET MESSAGE JUST CATAPULTED DONE......*_
_*Yes, I meant to yell..*.if I could smack you I would do that too to wake you up._
I care to much for you as a human being and member of my family here at HF to not feel and be outraged with/for you.


Tell you what... 
I'll send you the bill for my next vacation I take cause that is what you are doing.._paying someones vacation! _

Sadly I know better but if this came from other posters I would be screaming fantasy poster and fabricated story...
From you, I'm just so sad for you and you continue to put up with it is beyond belief to me...
Will you please just get out! :frown_color:
:runninghorse2:


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## horselovinguy

Kalraii said:


> Thing is yesterday I did ask her to confirm if she was OK having Katie at camp and for the next fortnight, due to finances and covid. She said yes 100%. She's normally quite "on it" so figured that was done and dusted... maybe she replied without properly thinking it through is all I can assume. This place is significantly cheaper where I'm moving but I still am having to buy all the things I never needed before - a *comprehensive *first aid kit, storage, feed, extra hay & haylage, wheelbarrow, fork, buckets etc all the little things that I never needed during full livery. I simply cannot justify paying for someone else's holiday on my horse lol.


_Oh, she's perfectly on it..._
She figured to butter you up with the flowery message then screw you and you would just cave and say it was fine..
Well, _it isn't fine._

Now, all of that stuff you need to accumulate...
You need something secure for storage yes.
You need to buy some feed, 1 bale of hay and haylage. 

Buy as you go, as you need and not stockpile in case it spoils and if you don't buy huge quantities then you don't need so large a storage area either.
At home, its in the garage, on a concrete floor put 2 boards under it if you want it off the floor.
Katie isn't living in your garage but visiting so you don't need weeks worth of food kept.
Metal garbage cans with a lid is what I use to keep my horse feed in...cheap and serves the purpose of rodent free and dry storage. I larger garbage pail I can store 150 pounds of feed/grain in = 3 bags here.
Another pail same size easily hold alfalfa cubes, 100 pounds - 2 bags.

You can buy a cheap muckfork at many hardware stores, garden center cause many use them for yardwork projects.
By us, Walmart has large buckets for icing beer/soft drinks for parties, resembles a muck bucket.
Forget that and do Amazon... "large bucket with handles" in the search engine.. 
Up came 2 for $30... better was quantity or 8 for $56.79 free shipping. These are 17 gallon buckets. *https://www.amazon.com/Homz-Rope-Ha...rge+bucket+with+handles&qid=1594739922&sr=8-3* 
Enough buckets for water, poop removal, feed bucket and if you wanted to put her hay in it so it not touch the ground/floor in your garage which is what I think you are fretting about. And a few left over.
Yes, I checked Amazon UK and they have offerings that meet your needs or buy here and ship it their if savings are affordable.
Ebay also has many offerings that fit your needs and especially your wallet.

If you don't need to move the poop hundreds of feet away, then buy that and use a piece of rope and drag the thing...or dedicate a wheeled garbage pail to poop detail, rinse it out and put your garbage in it on collection day.. You're composting correct?
There are ways around this you not be forced to spend out tons of funds at one time you need to be careful of.
Make a first-aid kit, basic in needs for now...expand and add the myriad of extras as you can.
What you think you must have is what most of us have accumulated over years of time, not a single weekly shopping venture. 
I have things in my kit I've never used, but they are their for just in case.._get what you must_, add as you have extra $, want to and can.
You can buy a kit already made for $69.95 including a fancy bag to keep stuff in...*https://www.amazon.com/Horse-Aid-Fi...CR6JQVPBYQE&psc=1&refRID=SDFAESQ41CR6JQVPBYQE*
But I guarantee you have most of those items already in your home especially since you did animal training projects..._you have most of it now._

_OK...now that is faced there is little to nothing to stop you getting Katie home now, not later..not in a week or two or at the end of camp they expect you to pay for... NOW!_
:runninghorse2:...


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## Kalraii

I am feeling as you all feel. Am just waiting for the moment of truth in her reply. Will update asap x


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## SwissMiss

Kalraii said:


> I am feeling as you all feel. Am just waiting for the moment of truth in her reply. Will update asap x


I would still get Katie tomorrow, irrespective of the reply you get.
Yes, X will get caught in the middle, but it may be better in the long run to just rip off the band aid and be done with it!

And in terms of vet kit needed: I second @horselovingguy. You may already have most of it on hand anyway.


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## horselovinguy

While your waiting make your actions speak clearly....

Make the phone call to the ship and tell them change of plans and tomorrow you would greatly appreciate your horse being removed and relocated.
You would like to ride along and gather any of your possessions still there which is not much you are aware of and take the on the lorry with Katie.
You will be along so there is no grief given by anyone to you, the shipper.

Regardless of what load of crap they send now, truth , fiction and how deep you need to pull up the boots to not drown in the poop....
_Make the arrangements and go._
*Do not* make the offer of Katie being used for camp nor anything else to do with this barn...rescinded!!
They nailed the coffin shut.
This is not a barn I would ever return to no matter what you think their reputation...the way they handle business and transactions of sucks.

While still angry, and upset is the time to act...
_Don't simmer down_...don't get placated and stop setting yourself up for being their SUCKER cause again you are doing it to yourself.
I wish I could get to you and be your backbone of strength you so need...
If I lived near you and had a lorry...your horse would be out of their tomorrow morning 9:00AM we would be pulling in the yard...done!
Don't tell them you are coming either.._.just arrive._
I bet you will be even more shocked at what you see going on when they not suspect your arrival...


Its time to do whats right for you, for Katie and stop worrying about everyone else's feelings. 

Heck with them...and if you think they are not already talking crap about you you would be badly mistaken...
Its past time to put you first. _*YOU FIRST*_ and let this impeccable barn figure out what is now their problem having a empty stall, no horse of Katies caliber, promises made they had no right to make with a privately owned horse being sent out on a excursion...
None of it is your problem and stop owning them.
Get your horse and leave. I would pull out today if possible, tomorrow isn't soon enough, period.
:runninghorse2:...


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## SteadyOn

When I was in Pony Club in my early teens, my horse came up lame right before camp week. My instructor was unbelievably kind and offered to let me take her best school pony for the week instead. No charge. The equivalent to what they expect of you would me be turning around and saying "Thanks, now since I'm using YOUR pony, you have to trailer her and pay for my bedding and boarding fees to keep her there." UNREAL.


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## Acadianartist

Oh @Kalraii... you have truly been taken advantage of by these people. I'm sorry. They are delusional. I have to agree with everyone - if she were mine, I'd move her immediately. No camp, no warning, just a phone call saying I'll be at the barn tomorrow at X time and will be taking my horse off the property, as well as all my tack and other possessions. Clear out of there. They deserve nothing less. Expect people to be giving you dirty looks and the BO trying to convince you to let Katie stay longer. Hold your ground. Bring a very mouthy friend (too bad all of us on HF can't join you!!!). Ignore them. 

I'll tell you a story: when we first got Harley, we boarded him at a stable owned by a friend. Well, long story short, after a month, and many efforts on my part to convince him to change things, we realized he was going to be stuck living in pastern-deep mud for as long as he remained there. I made arrangement to have him boarded at my neighbors and explained to the BO why I was moving him in the nicest possible terms. I told him I'd be moving him mid-month, but would still pay the entire month of course. Do you know what he did? He offered to transport the horse himself and told me I didn't have to pay the whole month, just the two weeks since he had another horse he wanted to move into his stall anyway so he wouldn't lose money. I paid him to transport Harley to his new home where there was no mud. The BO and I are still on friendly terms. THIS is how normal people behave. 

You tried so hard to be reasonable, but they have walked all over you and are asking you to lie down so they can walk over you again. You need to put your foot down.


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## tinyliny

Kalraii, please try to let this slip off your shoulders now. There is no reason to invest any more emotional currency into this 'real estate'. Keep focussed on the things you will do to prepare, and the NEW life with your mare nearby.


I expect you'll have some challenges there, too, but this old place is now passed, and even spending time being outraged is giving space in your brain/heart, 'rent free', to them.


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## LoriF

I wouldn't even get mad about it. I would just laugh and go get my horse pronto. X would just have to suck it up and find another horse for camp or don't go (OMG, like that would kill her) if I was the one in your shoes. I would just tell her sorry, I need to spend my money on other things. Just go get her. You have paid for this month at the new place so Katie being there is just for them and now they want to charge you for that. Please, just go get her and start enjoying your life with her. Just let all of the drama go. There are good things ahead of you and there is no reason to wait another minute for it. 

Don't worry if you are not 100% ready with everything you need. Believe me, you will come up with all kinds of things to buy so don't spend your money on another going to camp on your horse.

I'm with Swissmiss. I wouldn't even care what they have to say at this point, I would just go get her. Sorry everyone, no more freebie's

Who is going to be transporting Katie? Do you even have to tell them that you are coming before? If not, I wouldn't even say anything else, I would just show up with Katie's ride, get her, and go.


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## LoriF

Also, Chances are that X will say that she will pay because she doesn't want to see Katie go. So what happens if X then doesn't pay. You will be stuck having to pay before you can get your horse. If Y/O didn't approach X about money for camp then there is probably a reason for that. I wouldn't even get on that merry-go-round.

Yep, I would go get her tomorrow. The twelve days of not having to feed Katie that's already been paid for would be the last freebie they would get out of me.

And honestly, I don't see where X wanting to take Katie to camp is the Y/O's problem either. This is X's problem. Is X part of the staff? Does Y/O want her to take Katie to camp? IDK, maybe it's all combined. Either way, Go Get Her.


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## LoriF

Can I go pick her up for you tomorrow? I wish I could.


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## Kalraii

Ugh I feel physically sick. Still no response. I've been typing a reply for hours yo-yo'ing as I do. I like to ruminate as you all probably realised. 
@LoriF this is just purely business talk between YO and I. YO doesn't care by whom, as long as it is paid. X is completely uninvolved in the financial side of things which complicates matters. X is a whole other problem. She's a young woman that fell in love with a horse that isn't hers. Or the convenience and location of that horse combined. We'll know soon enough the answer to that question. The YO has plenty other lovely horses at her disposal and by extension, to X. I do know, based off last year and the write up between us, that if I take Katie, X will have no one to ride. X has been asking for months, even before the new year, if she could please please please take Katie to camp. It has been the only one persistent request of hers, always checking in on the regular. And I agreed. I genuinely was OK with it and still am, really. 

But I cannot, will not, pay for it. The only appropriate response for me is that X pays, in writing and with proof. Additionally I want written and signed acceptance that she will be financially responsible for any accident/illness/theft/death that might occur while Katie is under her care - pretty much I'll write up a sharers contract and have us both sign it. Whether or not she or YO want to risk paying in full for a horse that they don't own... that'll answer itself.

But then I hesitate. Do I even want to take that risk? If I take Katie now it'll at least give YO time to figure out the horse situation for X. And even still.. as you say, it's not the worst thing in the world even if X might think so. Katie could have been hit by a car (heaven forbid!) and lame and the outcome would have been the same. She can still come ride Katie down here, held accountable as a sharer and an individual. It would be awfully hard for her without all the convenient amenities provided by the YO, I suspect. I am a very empathetic person and it takes a lot for me to really be in a place where I truly believe "not my problem" but I'm beginning to get real close to it now. :think: 


I have already text my main transport dude that I used when I bought her and for the vet clinic. Now I'm gonna sleep and hopefully wake up to a reasonable response otherwise.. that's it. If I have to walk Katie back two hours to the field I'll do it. And I swear... if I get _asked just one more time to sell her._ :angrily_smileys:.....


But I'm not so lost as to forget to thank you for being there for me during this ... interesting time -.- x


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## SwissMiss

Oh @Kalraii, I so wish some of us could be there in person and help you tomorrow getting Katie home and be your emotional support team! :hug:

The lack of timely response worries me. Yes, people get busy, but this is important business, even for the Y/O...

May I offer a suggestion, if you _really_ still want to extend the offer to X (even if I would not do so in your situation)? *Bring Katie home tomorrow, no matter what*. IF X wants (and will) pay for camp, then she can arrange transport and all to camp. And yes, if this should happen, an airtight share-contract is a must... But honestly, I would NOT let her go to camp...


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## Celeste

X is 24 years old. *X is an adult.* She should have a career up and running by now. She should buy her own horse. 

That YO is beyond horrific. Asking you to pay for double board. One at camp and one at the yard. And you can't come?

I don't let anyone ride my horses if I am not along for the ride. I have seen too many people ruin good horses by pushing them too fast, jumping them too high, and doing things the horse is not prepared for in general.

Who ever heard of a camp that doesn't have horses anyway?

Nobody ever paid for me to go to camp or take lessons. If I wanted a lesson, I paid for it. Never went to a camp. I lived.


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## egrogan

I don’t want to keep chiming in since I fear we’re starting to be a little overbearing too, just with the opposite perspective of YO. But Kalraii, it’s just because we DO care about your welfare and that of Katie and want to echo your own internal voice telling you what they’re asking is not normal or reasonable.

Can’t wait for this to all be behind you and you to have Katie home as soon as possible!! You owe X and YO nothing at this point. Time to enjoy YOUR horse :grin:


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## JCnGrace

While you don't have them yammering in your ear, because I bet when you show up to get Katie they will be (I think it should be unannounced), make a list of all your belongings that you have at the barn so that you can check them off as you throw them in your vehicle and won't forget anything. If there are missing items then I'd tell the YO they best be finding them within 48 hours or you will be sending them a bill. Don't let them pull any more crap on you than they have already. 

While being a good and generous person is a great way to be there are, unfortunately, people who will take advantage of that and there comes a point you have to stand up for yourself. You are to that point @Kalraii, in most of our opinions you're beyond that point. I hate to belabor that fact but we are all just trying to shake you up so that you open your eyes and quit letting them make you believe they are doing you a favor. That's how users work. Get your horse, any tack and gear you have there and get the heck out. No more playing Miss Nice, it's time to be selfish! 

And I hope not but am afraid they will play the Covid card when you show up and use it as an excuse to not let you on the property. If they dare do that DO NOT and I repeat DO NOT hang your head and walk away. Tell the YO they have 3 options. 1) let you in to get your horse and stuff 2) they can collect your stuff (have a copy of your list to give them) and Katie and bring them out to you while you wait or 3) you will call the police (have what you need with you to prove ownership). Nothing else will do. You will not give them until the next day, you will not wait until after camp, their time is up period. 

I too would like to be there by your side to support you but since I can't I'm sending you all the virtual strength I can for you to see this through.


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## horselovinguy

JCnGrace said:


> And I hope not but am afraid they will play the Covid card when you show up and use it as an excuse to not let you on the property. If they dare do that DO NOT and I repeat DO NOT hang your head and walk away. Tell the YO they have 3 options. 1) let you in to get your horse and stuff 2) they can collect your stuff (have a copy of your list to give them) and Katie and bring them out to you while you wait or *3) you will call the police (have what you need with you to prove ownership).*


Make copies of those documents, _never_ bring the originals with you when the YO could possibly take them from you...
Have someone you trust have those original documents available to bring them to you should you have the need only because the police need to see originals not copy made.
Vet records are also a logical showing of who has paid bills for routine care and establishes a timeline of that care being done so...make some copies of those bills for her yearly maintenance and if you want to include all the bills of each time she had a incident, the person paying said costs was "YOU"...
From a evaluation exam at time of purchase...starts to establish ownership.
I'm hoping you have receipts for board bills paid as that is your proof of no liens on Katie...
Your emails and text messages also lay a trail of ownership and what is occurring all can be laid out within a few minutes to law enforcement if needed...

If you are given any grief...
_Call the police immediately..._
If they refuse to release, technically I think they face grounds for stealing a horse...
Here, in the USA in certain states horse stealing is still a punishment of death sentence never removed, rescinded or adapted in the law books. :|
:runninghorse2:...


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## Horsef

Wait, what?!
They want you to pay the livery AND camp fees that someone else is going to attend?
Surely my understanding is wrong?

Initially I understood that they wanted you to pay just the livery at the yard for that period - and I was livid at that.

English is my second language so I am most probably misunderstanding the situation here. I see no other explanation for this level of entitlement, none whatsoever. 

And this X girl is not innocent by any means. If she was 7, sure. A 24 year old WOMAN knows better than to brazenly use other people's horses without offering compensation. Yes, she loves your horse. I would also LOVE an all expenses paid horse which is well trained and healthy that I could ride whenever I pleased AND THAT I HAD FIRST DIBS ON AHEAD OF THE OWNER. Innocent. Right. The cheek


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## QtrBel

Nope, @*Horsef* you are not misreading or misunderstanding.


As for X at 24, she is like so many others that have never grown up. Born entitled, raised entitled and handed the reins of adulthood without the responsibility as a child and has no reason to grow up. You are feeding her entitlement to avoid a tantrum. I expect more pressure for you to sell is ahead. Daddy may just be there waiting with checkbook in hand if you give notice. JUST SHOW UP, with backup and all mentioned in prior posts and move YOUR horse. YOUR HORSE. YOUR. HORSE.


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## Horsef

QtrBel said:


> Nope, @Horsef you are not misrteading


What a bunch of crooks!


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## QtrBel

Dang you qouted that before I edited my misspelling....


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## Kalraii

QtrBel said:


> Dang you qouted that before I edited my misspelling....


Ahh it brought me a chuckle still thanks for the laugh  (you bringing it up - I hadn't even noticed. The brain is a funny thing!)

So I went to bed with still no response. I had sent a couple emails with the information that she required (proof of payment of last livery). In fact I have a spreadsheet and statements ready. No chance of originals going missing as I do everything online anyway phew. So I was expecting some sort of detailed response covering any loose ends or issues the YO might have and about the camp situation. Instead this was the reply:

_"This is helpful, thanks x"_



So I sent a follow up email AND a text letting her know I'd sent an email... she replied, literally a minute ago: _"Sorry I don't understand the problem?"_. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. So I've text back rephrasing it as blunt as possible and am just waiting on another response...


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## Kalraii

"Oh, sorry, no of course it's fine X and I will cover. My head is full up with risk assessments etc can't think straight." 

Followed up by a helpful and detailed list of what feed supplier they use, what Katie is currently on and suggestions.


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## SteadyOn

Kalraii said:


> "Oh, sorry, no of course it's fine X and I will cover. My head is full up with risk assessments etc can't think straight."
> 
> Followed up by a helpful and detailed list of what feed supplier they use, what Katie is currently on and suggestions.


Well, that's better... I know they've got a lot of nerve, generally, but asking you to pay for camp board was just bananas. Glad you're getting the whole feed profile!


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## Kalraii

So YO is currently spending some time over text discussing what would be a good way about transitioning after Katie is brought down which is alleviating some stress. Am also discussing over text what rugs they need to collect for camp (to keep in the lorry for when she is dropped off). Fortunately I have tack still - couldn't hand it over because was sick with covid and was deemed too risky after. 

I'm also contacting X to confirm. Hereon I'm going to have to text because waiting between emails that are likely half-read and skimmed over is not helping. I am getting a much better, faster response this way which is exactly what I have ALWAYS NEEDED!!!!! HELLO communicate PLEASE?!?!? -.- I AM keeping copies. Summer camp is only for the staff/RDA volunteers. It's a present from the YO to them as a thanks for their help over the year just in case anyone thinks of it as a normal "camp" facility that is permanent/static where people turn up for outings or "summer" camp type setup for kids. I forget that US or other parts of the world might interpret it different. It's them packing tents, renting a field and going away for a week. _I have been offered to go meet them out there as well._

I am still not happy. I am still going to check up on her and take photos/videos. I've said multiple times its my preference to have Katie home yesterday. I have transport on hand and I wont care if it was a slip of the mind next time or how busy it is. If I get asked to sell one more time. If I am denied seeing her. They can have 2.5 more supervised weeks. I will then have her for the rest of her life and never let this happen again. I have all paperwork in order and can hit the green light at any time. 

Sheesh. What an ordeal. I am a pretty amicable person as long as people communicate openly and don't beat around the bush................. I'm sure some of you will be gutted that I'm not going out there and causing hell. But the fields are so secure and on opposite ends outside the city it'd be a task to figure out what one she's in without arousing suspicion if I did go that route (legally I can ofc ask the whereabouts of my horse which doesn't work when you're trying to surprise collect). I'd have to turn up with some heavy duty equipment coz you bet I aint jumping that tall a barbed wire fence with a ditch & 2 metes clearance on the other side. I don't have a car and it'd take all day + buses/tube/trains to figure to go both if I was unlucky with first guess. Then I'd have X on my case. I'd have to someone convince YO is running hacks and prepping for camp (definitely not doubting this. With disabled volunteers as well its especially a lot of paperwork, have been a part of that type of preparation at another yard. It's per person, per horse, per yard, travel and at the facility then also the events that will take place...). 

In short... with the confirmation and copies I have. It is not worth me calling police up and marching down there given recent communication. It's my preference to part ways amicably. I am not saying I am happy. But I am also literally, mentally.. emotionally.. prepared to move at a moments notice. So. For now.


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## Kalraii

And for the record.. I am all up for being blunt. Don't worry about fazing me  I know it comes with good intentions and from a good place <3 Welsh family upbringing y'know  I know I might not come across it typing but in person one of my major character flaws/perks is how blunt and upfront I am. It has actually cost me friendships/jobs. I like to ask questions, unfiltered, to peoples faces. It also saved a lot of heart ache in relationships or miscommunications because I get to the root of a problem immediately. Because I prefer to save time. I only pander in writing because in the back of my mind they have my horse and her passport (required by law as they transport to and from field, to clinics etc). Copy is not enough (though I keep for myself ofc). I also pander because I am also bearing in mind that if this did escalate it is obvious I was reasonable and gave plenty of time/notice for any needed response. I have found it over the years when dealing with aggressive or difficult clients (filming industry, what a despicable culture _they_ have) they very easily deflate or give in when I don't rise to the bait. Each time I got "heavy handed", even if fully justified, just resulted in more resistance. 

But I'll be monitoring the next 2.5 weeks VERY closely. And I likely will take up on their offer to go out and see them at camp. Will keep everyone updated x


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## Acadianartist

Glad to year the YO has come to her sense somewhat. I understand your logic completely, but agree that if they should pull ONE MORE STUNT on you, you collect Katie today. Doesn't the YO have a phone? I agree that sometimes emails and texts are ignored, missed, or half-read. But it is unacceptable. I don't even believe that she wrote that to you by accident (when she asked you to pay for camp). That's a load of bull. You don't accidentally charge someone who has just given notice that they're leaving, but is doing you a favour by letting you use their horse for camp. She was fishing. And now she's back-peddling. Good for you. 

2.5 weeks and she's yours and only yours... with this behind you (hopefully - but DO have a contract for them to sign before they take her to camp!), you can go back to planning her arrival in her new home!!!


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## carshon

fingers crossed that these next 2 1/2 weeks are uneventful and Katie is moved and you are then posting for our reading enjoyment about how much you are enjoying your horse again!


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## horselovinguy

Kalraii said:


> "Oh, sorry, no of course it's fine X and I will cover. My head is full up with *risk assessments* etc can't think straight."
> 
> Followed up by a helpful and detailed list of what feed supplier they use, what Katie is currently on and suggestions.


_Who has risk assessments?_
_Is YO saying its risky for the horses to be at this camp location?_
I'm purposely being obtuse but you need to clarify that comment coming from them as they _are_ yet playing games...
Sorry, yes there is risk for your horse being out at a "camp" location. For me far more risk than her going roundy-round in the ring they manicure as once you wrote of...
Moving, running and jumping over natural barriers is what I am envisioning this coming week of camp to be about...
Is someone {them} putting a insurance policy on your horse to cover for injury or worse death? 
You want to see the paid policy naming you beneficiary if the awful were to happen.
One rabbit burrow stepped in, forget at speed, she's done.
I don't want to envision it but realistic I am...this is unfamiliar terrain and anything can change month to month, week to week.

YO needing a list of "things".... :-x
What things have you left at the barn blanket wise so they can place in the lorry for when she is dropped off...you telling me you don't know what apparel and equipment belongs to this horse?Then what the heck have you been using on her during this time she has been in your care...that's playing games.

AA, texts and emails although rather "cold" leave a concrete trail of what is done, planned and such.
Phone calls, no proof and "I never said or implied that..."

I'm glad you are placated Kalraii and now seem pretty good with the dealings...
I'm far from forgiving and as you've discovered have a keep memory.
_I would not let the horse go_...to much and to far away from your control, and I don't trust any of them.
To much sudden backpedaling of the YO...to much "you misunderstood" sneaky.
My gut says get Katie now and get her home...but she's_ not_ mine and you are willing to take a big chance I would not allow with all the commentary that has occurred the last several days..
I don't ignore my gut, not this kind of feeling.
I pray it works out well and a uneventful return of your horse in a good state of condition and sound transpires...
I just would not chance it... 
Katie if she was mine is to valuable to the heart and irreplaceable in my mind. 
_She *would* be headed home today_._ sorry.._
:runninghorse2:...


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## Kalraii

Am on mobile right this sec but over here in the city in any and every job risk assessments have to be done for everything. Everything. It doesnt mean it is risky. It is assessing the risk and includes the itinerary. It's a way of trying to account for every what if and worst case scenario. If the risk assessment isnt signed that means no insurance and the event is called off. Or components. For example I did risk assessment for using a corn snake during a talk. Not for any corn snake. But THIS individual. Its age, size, colour and temperament. How dangerous was its bite? Other risks like faecal contamination and salmonella. How would we respond to a bite/handling? First aid? Washing hands? A lot of it is putting common sense into words and proving that xyz has been carefully thought through and precautions are in place. For example I did a risk assessment for an adult bosc monitor. The "level" of risk associated with it wasnt covered in my bracket of insurance. 

Then do the same thing for everything and submit it. How many tents? Ages? Genders? What time is lights out? How many "guards" to monitor at night? Rotated how often? If there is bad weather how will it be managed? If there is an accident what protocols are in place? 

Its very tedious. Even more when it involves horses and able bodied people, more so for any impaired individuals that need specialised assessments. 

Hope that makes sense will be on later to update!


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## MeditativeRider

I understand that risk assessments are normal. They are where we are too. 

I am glad they now have something of an understanding of things now and are paying.

My only concern would be, if they are paying and not you, then in my mind you have stopped having your horse in their care as a client. Would that also be the case legally? Then, will you no longer be covered by whatever policies/agreements they have for clients in terms of how they take care of the horse and what they are responsible for? Are those policies/agreements terminated on the date you stop paying for board and they start paying for camp? Have you then moved onto (just by the change in who is paying) more of a sharer type thing and you need to make a contract for that from your end to get them to sign? Could it create difficulties in some way if they wanted to use that as saying they had paid for things for the horse? Would it be better for X to pay you and then you pay the YO so that you maintain the role of you as the owner paying for Katie and your client board agreement continues until the date you get her?

Anyway, not long to go now even with the whole camp thing. Soon Katie will be down the road from you. Exciting!!


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## SwissMiss

@Kalraii, I think I am not the only one counting down the days until you have Katie home!
If it feels like a LONG time for me, how long it must feel for you!

Fingers crossed that all goes smoothly. And I agree with Acadian, have a very specific lease contract for camp, just to be safe.


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## Kalraii

16 days to be exact! Don't worry guys am on it!


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## cbar

I haven't commented on this thread, but have been reading and following along. Horse care over in the UK sounds so much different than here (in Canada). I remember when I was boarding and the instructor asked if she could use my horse in some lessons. The only reason I said yes was b/c I would get a break on my boarding fees (I was a poor student at the time). I sense that the whole situation is much, much different where you are @ kalraii. 

I will only say I'm super excited to see updates once you do get Katie moved to her new home. Hopefully the move is as seamless as it can be and she settles in really nicely. I bet you will be over the moon to get to spend more time with her.


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## Kalraii

Off-topic (unsure if should make another thread at this point however) I finally had a few haylage suppliers get back to me. Goes without saying that I'd have to get like... small bales or bags. 

The smallest order is a pallet of 40 bags at 20kg each which is basically all I can reasonable store. You can set up a monthly subscription which is good and fortunately it wont be her only source of forage (pasture, hay put out etc. Haylage is for when she's with me/during feeds etc).

Fortunately hay supply aint an issue as the farmer assured me they cut their own and have plenty - they actually sell it. It's good quality to look at and smell from when I went down. But they don't have/do haylage. I assume due to wrapping as I've never seen anything wrapped there. I can pick off this site:

https://www.bailliehaylage.co.uk/

Basically what sort to go for first time around? Was thinking ryegrass & timothy? I got no clue ahahaha


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## ACinATX

Kalraii said:


> Basically what sort to go for first time around? Was thinking ryegrass & timothy? I got no clue ahahaha


I'd give her whatever is closest to what she is used to eating. 

I don't know about rye grass over there, but rye grass over here can be really high in sugars. So I would personally not feed it to my guys, but then my guys tend toward the laminitic end of things.


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## horselovinguy

Go to the farmer and ask him what his rounds consist of, as in what grasses are grown he cuts and bales...
The secret is to present to Katie as close to what she eats the rest of her time in that field as possible.
Less change the better on foods fed since the digestive tract of such large animals is so fragile...
Farmer might surprise you and offer you a smaller round delivered and placed in your garage for you to feed her...
Rounds can be rolled in different sizes and weights from a few hundred pounds to near 2000 pound monsters.
My horses eats rounds which typically are 1100 when rolled and guessing a bit lighter once they sat a bit and more moisture evaporated.
My son and I hand rolled rounds across our yard, around 2 sharp corners and onto a wooden platform so off the ground and then we cover with a huge tarp for weather condition...
A smaller round if it can be done might be a easy solution and very economical for you to do...throw a old sheet or something over it in the garage.


My rounds are net wrapped which_ I do leave on_, the horses eat around it, then once it starts to hang I cut those strings...
I keep mine wrapped so it not fall apart and be used as a bed and potty for my lazy boys.
You might be able to cut the wrapping if you can use a round roll and just peel off chunks to feed Katie...bit messier but she won't be peeing & pooping nor trying to sleep in it if out of reach...or create a barrier wall and let her free-eat but she still can't paw and rip it apart...
If you use rounds keep it on edge, not flat so they don't eat a hole and stuff their face in it inhaling contaminants to their lungs!!
:runninghorse2:..


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## Kalraii

@ACinATX honestly I am glad I don't have to worry about lami so much. 

Good point @horselovinguy will ask. I'm gonna post a drawing of my garden. It's big corner house... for the area aha


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## Kalraii

Update: so things have been going smoothly. My physical recovery is slow and I have so much to do but fortunately for this month I will be focusing on myself and animals ^<^ It'll be me > horse > other animals > sleep and repeat! I think that's pretty darn great! I've got plenty farriers I can contact. First thing I'm gonna do is get a hoof critique and go from there  She's just been done so have some weeks buffer. 

*ONLY TWO MORE DAYS GUYS AND KATIE IS HERE!*

Time went by so fast... I've got storage. Food. Buckets. First aid kit. _Camping chair _ I've been kinda anxious but the lady I met previously who has DIY'd here decades rang me yesterday. It was so reassuring. She answered all my questions. The farmer is an older gentleman who takes the money and brings the hay not much other involvement. But she welcome me to ride with her and her friend.. they go 5-6x a week around 2pm. Happy hackers that are in their late 40s (and I mention age because I'm fed up of teenagers lol!). Just the other day they were out for 4 hours. Their geldings are older gentlemen (large cobs) in their 20s. They brave the roads even in winter, illuminated in LEDs and hi-vis. She assured me there was nothing to fear about road hacking and they will show me all the routes. To go down along river thames which is nearby. How to get to the national parks.. they even hack to the national park by current yard 1.5 hours there and 1.5 back! How they'd love to cost-share for a horse lorry and go to the beach. There is a field 10mins away off property that is owned by a corporate company. It's 4 acres. She and her friend go for short gallops and long canters.. even popping the odd log and no one has complained to them. She sounded more excited than me to show me around haha! So it seems while there isn't an arena there IS a large space I can exercise just up the way. This excited me just as much as finally having some company while hacking! I have made a facebook to join their group to arrange future rides etc. 

She is going to meet me at noon this coming Saturday for Katie's arrival for support. Which nearly made me cry. I'm pmsing :evil: but still.. its so nice to receive support that I haven't paid for. I respect people that train for competition. But it's not me. I train because I think its important for horse and rider but I couldn't care less about a score or a ribbon or jumping high. Happy hackers that want to explore.. that's more me. But I have to respect that Katie is 11 yo with a big engine and a lot of go. I need to rise to her standard.

So I contacted the closest riding school that is 20mins drive away. I can rent a horsebox for half a day for £35 and build my confidence loading/travelling etc by having lessons there. The horsebox company were very kind in their response and as the rental is so short would provide a driver the first few times to sit next to me for guidance and support. Hoping to set up a monthly contract where I can use it once a week or fortnight just to get use to trekking further out and alone eventually. The spare money that used to go on livery will instead go on horsebox rentals and lessons for myself.

Lastly I'm also dating. He's shown an interest in learning how to ride. I'm gonna get him some lessons at my favourite yard. So.. fingers crossed. 

I wouldn't have been able to keep going without your invaluable support and that of this forum (even if no one reads!). I feel so much less alone which is ironic considering the distance... x


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## QtrBel

Glad to see such a positive update! May things continue going so smoothly.


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## horselovinguy

Sweet update....
Glad things are nearly finished with Katie being yours and yours alone in 2 short days.


Friends into romance and a interest in horses is good...............
Pick your yard wisely for lessons as he needs male support too...


The hacking stuff sounds fantastic!!
See, not everyone is after your wallet...
I have a feeling you are not going to need another rider for Katie with all the saddle time you will have with what sounds to be very nice women and fellow boarders...
I'm so happy for you....
:loveshower::happydance::loveshower::happydance:


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## ACinATX

Awesome!!!


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## carshon

I just smiled and smiled when I read your post! so many wonderful things in it!


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## egrogan

I was just thinking about you and Katie this morning while driving, and thought I remembered the move date was very soon. I can just feel all the happiness coming through your post! :grin: Having people to show you around the roads and hack routes will be great- so nice to have options to ride out alone or have company sometimes. I personally like a mix of both. But how encouraging to know that there are reasonable rides to get you to interesting destinations; and the option of renting a horsebox sounds great. I wish we had that here! 



Here's to a smooth move day- take lots of pictures please :wink:


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## PoptartShop

So happy to see a positive update, yay!!  That is great!!


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## Acadianartist

SOOO excited for you! That lady sounds so nice, and all those hacking opportunities sound like so much fun!


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## SwissMiss

So excited! I was/am counting days!!!


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## MeditativeRider

Yay, so pleased for you, have been thinking of you. Have fun when she arrives.


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## Celeste

I am excited for you! Like you, I much prefer hacking out than showing. Being right near your horse will be fantastic. Some of the other riders may have room for your horse in their box or trailer if they are going away for a ride. If they do have a slot, I am sure that they would appreciate some company and a donation of money toward fuel. 

Romance is nice too. Just so it doesn't interfere with horses. 

I had more than one person break up with me for spending too much time with my horse. My husband of 39 years helps me with my horses and is very supportive of my hobby. He is a keeper.


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## knightrider

I am so happy for you! The day is almost here! How did Katie do at the camp? Did you go see her?


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## Acadianartist

And congrats on the dating part too.  

My husband doesn't care about riding. We've ridden before, on vacation and such, so I know he can. I've never pushed it. The important thing is that he understands how much the horses mean to me and is supportive. One mother's day, his gift to me was putting in all the posts for my fences. He moves manure, does pasture management, buys me horse magazines in my Christmas stocking, and shows interest in the horses. He likes being around them, just isn't interested in riding. That's fine. 

On the other hand, I know someone who, just last year, married a guy who hates horses. Complains that she stinks every time she comes back from the barn, tells her she spends too much money on her horse, has even suggested she should sell it. So right now, we don't see her at the barn anymore. She's trying to keep the peace. They're still in the honeymoon phase and she does everything that he wants to do. I hate to say it, but I can't see that lasting. A man doesn't have to love horses as much as you, but he has to love you enough to understand the horse is part of the deal. Riding is optional. Being supportive of what makes you happy is not.


----------



## tinyliny

looking forward to newsy updates'


----------



## LoriF

I can hardly wait to hear how it goes on move in day and everyday forward. So excited for you that you have found some riding buddies that sound pretty nice. Have fun.


----------



## JCnGrace

I was shouting "YAY!" in my head as I read your last post.It was great reading all the positive news. I'm so glad you're getting to the point where you'll get enjoy the benefits of having a horse.


----------



## Kalraii

Tomorrow just after lunch she arrives...
But now I'm anxious. 

Right. So I've been told that in the last month a new horse has been brought into new field. He's a working boy on field rest. But because he's used to being busy and on a busy yard now that he's left bored 24/7 he's causing havoc and bullying everyone. To the point that some of the DIY owners have complained to the farmer. The gelding hasn't settled and is apparently relentless in his kicking/biting of some of the horses to the point a vets been called out for the bites/bruises. Katie is quite confident and has no qualms talking horse or putting them in their place. This might be a good or a bad thing? Probably good... there's only been one horse thats been more dominant than her and Katie did submit which I thought was good because at least she wont escalate in a never-ending fashion.

The summer field is divided by a barbed wire fence (nope, I don't like). So any horses arguing over the fence increases risk for injury. 

*Put Katie:*

LEFT SIDE: sacrifice pen, no grass or grazing at all. Farmer hays it. It's for the lami prone/cushings lot. Is smaller but apparently the ponies/horses are more docile.
RIGHT SIDE: much bigger, plenty grazing (if not the best) but likely more drama. Also gets hay.
BOTH SIDES: alternate sides each day (half day?) so she becomes acquainted with all the herd.. with the end goal her staying in the big side.

Winter field is all in one so no issues then. 

--------------------------------------

Secondly... when I asked YO what time she's coming originally she said she needed to ask A first. Hm. :think: A finally got back to me. She's gonna bring a couple other people from the yard when they come drop Katie off. So I was originally expecting a quiet trade. But it looks like there is a farewell party coming along and to check out new home. And I know I'm gonna be 100% judged for my decision. The summer field isn't as big as the winter one which is massive and as far as the eye can see. It's overgrazed (farmer hays though) and one third is a sacrifice pen with no grazing. I am expecting lots of tears and maybe a pressure party to sell. Don't worry I'm steadfast in my decision. I just know I have to deal with herd drama probably and now more drama ontop. 

Given all the above and the audience. What side to put her in? Anything you think I need to bear in mind?


At least its gonna be cooler. 


Was 35c today (94f says google) and humid. I nearly died just sitting still lol. Such a pansy... I've invested in a parasol to compliment my camping chair and table. LOL.


----------



## Kalraii

When I said Katie was confident the woman sounded hopeful that Katie might be the solution to said naughty horse... hm?


----------



## carshon

a confident horse or "boss mare" can be the answer to a bully gelding in the field. I would be cautious at first and try to have the gelding tied so you can walk Katie around the perimeter of the property.

I am going to offer some unsolicited advice here. It sounds like you are going to be ambushed. My opinion is that they unload Katie you take the lead rope and tell them thanks and walk away as if you have something important to do. Do not dawdle and allow them to talk or draw out the goodbye. They have had more than enough time to say their farewells to Katie. The longer you stand there and allow them to talk and commiserate the harder it will be. Just take your horse tell them thank you and walk away.


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## SwissMiss

carshon said:


> I am going to offer some unsolicited advice here. It sounds like you are going to be ambushed. My opinion is that they unload Katie you take the lead rope and tell them thanks and walk away as if you have something important to do. Do not dawdle and allow them to talk or draw out the goodbye. They have had more than enough time to say their farewells to Katie. The longer you stand there and allow them to talk and commiserate the harder it will be. Just take your horse tell them thank you and walk away.


I was just about to write something in a similar vein!
It is time to rip off the Bandaid.


----------



## SteadyOn

Could be good to start her in the smaller, calmer paddock until she settles in for a bit at the new place. Unless she's likely to bully the easygoing horses in there, that is.


----------



## SteadyOn

Kalraii said:


> Secondly... when I asked YO what time she's coming originally she said she needed to ask A first. Hm. :think: A finally got back to me. She's gonna bring a couple other people from the yard when they come drop Katie off. So I was originally expecting a quiet trade. But it looks like there is a farewell party coming along and to check out new home. And I know I'm gonna be 100% judged for my decision. The summer field isn't as big as the winter one which is massive and as far as the eye can see. It's overgrazed (farmer hays though) and one third is a sacrifice pen with no grazing. I am expecting lots of tears and maybe a pressure party to sell. Don't worry I'm steadfast in my decision. I just know I have to deal with herd drama probably and now more drama ontop.


SO. ANNOYING. Why can't they say their goodbyes at THEIR end??? Instead of all inviting themselves along? Oh, right, because they have to be as irritating and presumptuous as possible -- and NOSY!!!!, which I'm sure is the main reason. I want to say bad words but I won't. Harumph.


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## MeditativeRider

I am sorry they are extending the drama out right to the last second. I like the just take your horse and walk away idea. Maybe just take her for a good walk around everywhere and don't stop walking till they go the heck away. Also, are you still going to have the support person there with you? Will there be gear of Katie's to unload? Could your support person do it so that you can take her?

I would also take it as a sign to not go ahead with all these offers for them to visit and ride Katie at the new place. It sounds like they are just constantly going to try undermine your happiness and confidence.

Boo to them. Try focus on the good things and the part where they are gone and you get to enjoy your horse.


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## Acadianartist

I would tell the "farewell party" that due to Covid, only one person can get out of the vehicle to unload Katie and that you'll take it from there. They should absolutely not all be there. Tell them there are rules about having visitors due to Covid. That's definitely what I'd do! Nope, nope, nope! None of them should allowed on property except one person to help unload. Seriously, tell them before the day of the move that they will not be allowed to get out of the vehicle. They need to say goodbye to Katie at the old yard. This is just ridiculous. 

I would put Katie in the field where the horses are more docile at first. Ideally, she'd be by herself for a few days, with a fence separating her from other horses. But if she has to be with other horses, put her in with the docile ones. Give her lots of extra hay. Can you do that without giving lots of extra to everyone? After a few days, maybe try her with the more aggressive horses, but stay there and have someone with you in case things get out of control. Another thing you can do if you're afraid Katie might get bitten is blanket her. I realize it's probably hot, but a sheet would help protect her a little. Depends on the aggressive horse. Have you talked to nice lady about this? Is she the one who suggested Katie might fix the problem horse? I mean, she might, but it's a little unfair to Katie.


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## horselovinguy

They're pushing you and hoping to guilt you, make you feel frightened and scare you to withdrawing and agreeing to send her back with them to the stalled yard.
Don't fall for it.
As Katie walks off the lorry, make sure the halter is yours or make a quick switch...
Hand any equipment, wraps if they wrapped to them and say goodbye.
A _"I don't do goodbyes well so please excuse us, but we are off for a walk"_ and indeed go for a walk with *your horse*.
You owe them no answers, did not ask for their opinion or critique.
Let them stand their shuffling their feet and you make the move and move away and leave...go down the trail and just leave, period.
Once they are gone...head back.
You will have enough of a audience to deal with of the current boarders...
You need to go and see what the other horse appears like in the first place...this afternoon maybe?
Is Katie a match in size or is he bigger?
Is he violent or just a pest?
Does he run the others off or nag them to death?
That would make me think about where to put Katie...

I would though at this point put her in the quieter field, maybe less grass but then they have rolls of hay to eat so are not going without right?
_Let Katie settle in a few days where it is quieter..._
Then if you want to move her over she also has had some time to learn the other horses over the fence, slowly as they will learn about barbed wire and the bite they get if they press into it...
Katie is not stupid, she has been in close proximity to this kind of wire before and never had a issue..
If the aggressive gelding meets and greets Katie and is nasty to her she has teeth and she will retaliate quickly to put him in his place if she is not submissive in disposition.
Mares are who rule the herd and dish out the punishment...
You will learn a whole new side to your horse as this takes place...
One way or another sounds like all go together soon so to me, get it over with...
Now, if the farmer has had enough complaints he just might tell the new boarder her horse doesn't fit the herd dynamics and need and they need to leave in XYZ days to someplace else...
You don't know what is going to happen and is they gone hinging on your horse arriving to see how the apple-cart stays stacked or spills the fruit everywhere...

For tomorrow...
Big girl panties, pull them up and put on the suspenders.
Horse arrives...prior to her arrival, ask your friends to please help unload any trunks of belongings and you will put them away when you return from taking Katie for a walk well deserved and earned by both of you...
You haven't seen her in forever and just want, _you need _some quiet time with her.
Your friends _will_ understand..._or ask your bf to be their and do this for you..he should understand this too._
Remember all of what you have been put through, treated like :evil: and that this is the beginning part of your dream to bring her home...:smile:
Till you get a home with acreage, this is as close to home as you've got and more than suffices. 
Break the contact cleanly and permanently with the old barn...no olive branches grabbed for. :x
You _*will*_ swim cause you are _*not*_ going to sink.
Now, don't forget the camera tomorrow and pictures taken of Katie's arrival and that of your new life together and adventures now commencing... 

You've got this...and a bunch of us in your back pocket pinching you every step of the way with encouragement..
YOU GOT THIS!! :mrgreen:
:runninghorse2:...


----------



## SteadyOn

Some really good points made. I would be tempted to say some combination of:

Please have people gather to say bye to Katie *before* she leaves on the trailer instead of at the new place because...
-too many people there are going to stress her out
-you don't want a gathering there because of COVID
-you don't know how many people are already going to be there so really can't control the numbers, and again, stress + COVID risk
-you don't want to make a bad impression at the new place with a big group of emotional strangers showing up
-it makes WAY more sense for them to meet up at THEIR location because that barn is what that group _actually_ has in common -- not YOUR horse!!!
-by all showing up, they are NOT putting Katie's best interests first (which is apparently SO important to them...)


----------



## egrogan

Agreeing with all the great advice, particularly from Acadian-unload Katie and walk right off into the sunset with her, and telling the busybodies that because of COVID restrictions only boarders and one transport staff can accompany the horse. Then send them on their merry way. I definitely agree they are coming to turn their noses up at the facility and use it to gossip and snipe.

On to happier trails, you and Katie! :cheers:


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## MeditativeRider

Good luck. I am 12 h ahead of you in time zone so it feels like such a wait, but I am hoping for a happy update.

Also, in light of all this, I would be making it clear that: "hey I know I said you could come visit/ride/hang out with Katie at the new place, but I am needing some one on one time with her and I am sorry but you just can't come round in the near future. Once we are all settled in, I will let you know if you can come visit".

Otherwise they might just be showing up uninvited all the time.


----------



## Kalraii

I am knackered about tomorrow and it's not even tomorrow! 16 hours to go... 

I get the impression that the people coming are there also to support A which is fair. But if Katie was moving across the country they would have no choice but say farewell before loading. Only winter rugs from storage to grab from them. I have the rest. 

There is a "grooming" area I can tie her for a few hours and feed her hay. So she and the others can look at each other and smell without coming in contact. Wont need to sling her straight in the field. There are two barbed wire sick pens WITHIN the smaller/docile side. I could keep her there and load it up with hay?? Fortunately she's a seasoned traveller for her short life and has always settled in wherever quite fast. I'm gonna be spending a lot of time there anyway.

They ARE meeting at the yard first and then coming here together with Katie - in separate vehicles to the lorry. 

And tell me about it. Am also certain I'm gonna get ambushed. I cannot wait for the first precious minutes alone. I am mentally preparing myself for criticism... about the fields... how Katie isn't a good-doer and how I'll struggle because I'm inexperienced at DIY... I understand that to them I must look like an idiot (and maybe I was ) Honestly I'm exhausted thinking about it. Unfortunately the private lane will have no access at the time they are coming because dog walkers park like poop (yup I've informed them 3 times in advance but this is the time they can do it so...). So we're probably gonna have to unload roadside which is NOT ideal. He cant** reverse into the lane because its directly on a 4-way roundabout. Basically.. I need a few hands regardless and unless right there I tell them to mind their business they are gonna follow. But its ok. I can bear with it. Just a few more hours. The ladies that DIY here are coming at that time as well and I'm sure they'll help out! They know the herd best as well. 

Just a few more hours. Not more than a day. Then freedom. Am saying it like a mantra. I will definitely bring up COVID though because there wont be space for everyone. I can't put myself or others at risk which is extremely valid. A good reason not to hover. I do think they want to see Katie mix with the herd though for their own peace of mind and maybe not a bad thing because lots of experienced people will be there. 

Katie is also gonna get fried. Between all the emotions and crying etc she's gonna be super stressed. Very sensitive :< Once alone am just gonna give her some nice food, peace and quiet. 


LOTS AND LOTS of photos tomorrow!

Finally it's happening. And honestly... 2 years too late. I didn't have the confidence back then or the knowledge to be an independent owner. But now its time and thanks to your support too <3


----------



## Kalraii

I don't mind people coming.. really I don't. Its just exhausting and I'm rolling my eyes. Like they got so many weeks already sheeeeeeeeesshhhhh. And it IS interesting to see how far they will milk/push it? Because if this had been a simple, amicable separation A might have found me quite receptive to some sort of arrangement... But now its hard for me because I trusted her and the YO with my horse's life and happiness. But they didn't and still don't trust me one single bit :< its very demoralising...


----------



## horselovinguy

_*AcadianArtist...you are fantastic!!*_


Kalraii...remember you were denied being allowed to visit your horse at the barn from Covid concerns...
Zing...direct hit....back at you.

Here is the opportunity to spoil their game and not be allowed in your face.


Text tonight....
_My barn has requested for their to be one person beside the driver at most on the delivering lorry due to COVID concerns._
_I will be present when you arrive to take Katie from you and will have support of my barn owner and boarders should I need anything._
_They too have rules about extra people being in attendance or around so please make the goodbyes be done before she heads here cause there will be no goodbyes once arrived._
_Even for me, I will meet the lorry, they unload her and I will take her off on a walk privately so you can quickly unload any and all things as we had agreed upon before she went to camp to benefit "XYZ" summer vacation plans I chose to not disrupt._
_There will be people around to take my horses things and put them where they need to be._
_Thank you for caring for Katie as you did but now its my turn and I am so looking forward to this new journey in our life together._
_Safe travels back to the barn._
_Sincerely..._

She coming home Kalraii...
After all this time, she is coming home to you, for you...
Go forward and have a great adventure together.
:runninghorse2:...


----------



## QtrBel

That is ridiculous. If there are issues for the lorry then where the hay will they put their vehicleS ...Not acceptable. You have the lorry driver and can ask for help from those that will be there that board there if you have to have extra hands. One person to direct traffic around the lorry with bright clothing and a flag, the lorry person unloads and hands you your horse. Blankets should be in the lorry. That can be handed before horse unloading and set to the side." A " had her camp time and we are in a pandemic. Too many monkeys in that circus for poop not to fly and if you aren't careful it lands on you in her new home.


I truly hope all goes well but you are in the position to put a stop to the nonsense and if need be have the field owner or lead/responsible boarder back you up.


----------



## Acadianartist

Yeah, what hlg said. And not just because she says I'm great, LOL. Do you really want this to be the first impression of you by your new barn? I know they will understand, and that you have surely mentioned the situation there... but you need to stand your ground now @Kalraii. Not meaning to add to your stress, but what they are doing is unacceptable. Do I understand correctly that they are all coming in their own vehicles? If I were a Yard Owner, I'd be really unhappy about it and wonder what I am getting myself into. Sorry, but it would not sit well with me to have all these people snooping, getting emotional, and pretending it's for Katie's own good. They are being selfish. A should have let Katie go by now. I don't know how else to say it... this is utterly out of control and unacceptable. They have no business showing up at your new barn. 

Best of luck... you will LOVE having Katie there! It will be such a huge weight off your shoulders. We are all there with you in spirit!!!


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## SteadyOn

horselovinguy said:


> _*AcadianArtist...you are fantastic!!*_
> 
> 
> Kalraii...remember you were denied being allowed to visit your horse at the barn from Covid concerns...
> Zing...direct hit....back at you.
> 
> Here is the opportunity to spoil their game and not be allowed in your face.
> 
> 
> Text tonight....
> _My barn has requested for their to be one person beside the driver at most on the delivering lorry due to COVID concerns._
> _I will be present when you arrive to take Katie from you and will have support of my barn owner and boarders should I need anything._
> _They too have rules about extra people being in attendance or around so please make the goodbyes be done before she heads here cause there will be no goodbyes once arrived._
> _Even for me, I will meet the lorry, they unload her and I will take her off on a walk privately so you can quickly unload any and all things as we had agreed upon before she went to camp to benefit "XYZ" summer vacation plans I chose to not disrupt._
> _There will be people around to take my horses things and put them where they need to be._
> _Thank you for caring for Katie as you did but now its my turn and I am so looking forward to this new journey in our life together._
> _Safe travels back to the barn._
> _Sincerely..._
> 
> She coming home Kalraii...
> After all this time, she is coming home to you, for you...
> Go forward and have a great adventure together.
> :runninghorse2:...


YES!!!!! This!!!! Amazing!


----------



## Celeste

I can't wait to see pictures and see how things go.


----------



## Kalraii

It's on a *public* bridleway (well its only open 9-5) but I can safely say that there isn't enough room for a crowd in the holding area before the two fields. It can only hold two horses at a time safely tied up. And there will be other DIY'ers and the farrier so I guess its gonna be naturally cramped. I know covid is a big deal to them and is to me obviously and I shouldn't have needed you guys to really remind me of that... it's not even an excuse. It's a serious consideration that I will bring up first thing tomorrow. Just wana get it done without creating more drama already >.<

@Acadianartist forgot to also say not a chance about putting hay in the docile side. I've already been forewarned that some owners there are very hot about their horses being fed/risk of getting fat. 

@horselovinguy - the winter field has bales out but the summer field gets hay off the farmers tractor daily and owners put out because the lami lot can't have stuff 24/7 :< 

I still don't know what to do. I'll keep her in the holding area for a few hours in sight/smell of the others then...

1. put her in the docile one overnight after a light dinner (and plenty time after to digest first)
2. put her in the "sick bay" pen within the docile side and tons of hay / water at the back overnight
3. Just bite the bullet and while everyone is around stick her in the big field and let her figure it out herself

....? >.<


----------



## SteadyOn

2 sounds like a pretty good option, depending on how she seems when she gets there! I'm sure you can feel out the situation.


----------



## Acadianartist

Just wanted to add @Kalraii, that everything will be ok. You are a lot like me with your animals. We overthink. But really, just relax. You'll be fine. Katie will be happy. You will be happy. Repeat this as many times as you have to, and take deep yoga breaths. Change is never easy, but it is the only way to shed what is not making you happy. You've got this! We're all cheering for you.


----------



## MeditativeRider

Hope you got an ok sleep with the combination of excitement and stress. It must feel a little like Christmas or some other family holiday with some difficult relatives thrown in.

Don't feel demoralized. They (old barn) just sound judgmental and like they have some entitlement and boundary issues. Maybe I don't accurately remember being "younger" (I am a month shy of 40) but I don't recall people my age being so entitled and self-absorbed in their 20s as A sounds. In regards to horse care, it sounds like you are perfectly capable, intelligent, aware, happy to ask questions, and have surrounded yourself with IRL support. 

Enjoy the fact that you can walk home after settling Katie in today, and the knowledge that you can walk back at any time you like to give her a hug, groom, ride, or whatever.


----------



## LoriF

Kalraii said:


> I am knackered about tomorrow and it's not even tomorrow! 16 hours to go...
> 
> I get the impression that the people coming are there also to support A which is fair. But if Katie was moving across the country they would have no choice but say farewell before loading. Only winter rugs from storage to grab from them. I have the rest.
> 
> There is a "grooming" area I can tie her for a few hours and feed her hay. So she and the others can look at each other and smell without coming in contact. Wont need to sling her straight in the field. There are two barbed wire sick pens WITHIN the smaller/docile side. I could keep her there and load it up with hay?? Fortunately she's a seasoned traveller for her short life and has always settled in wherever quite fast. I'm gonna be spending a lot of time there anyway.
> 
> They ARE meeting at the yard first and then coming here together with Katie - in separate vehicles to the lorry.
> 
> And tell me about it. Am also certain I'm gonna get ambushed. I cannot wait for the first precious minutes alone. I am mentally preparing myself for criticism... about the fields... how Katie isn't a good-doer and how I'll struggle because I'm inexperienced at DIY... I understand that to them I must look like an idiot (and maybe I was ) Honestly I'm exhausted thinking about it. Unfortunately the private lane will have no access at the time they are coming because dog walkers park like poop (yup I've informed them 3 times in advance but this is the time they can do it so...). So we're probably gonna have to unload roadside which is NOT ideal. He cant** reverse into the lane because its directly on a 4-way roundabout. Basically.. I need a few hands regardless and unless right there I tell them to mind their business they are gonna follow. But its ok. I can bear with it. Just a few more hours. The ladies that DIY here are coming at that time as well and I'm sure they'll help out! They know the herd best as well.
> 
> Just a few more hours. Not more than a day. Then freedom. Am saying it like a mantra. I will definitely bring up COVID though because there wont be space for everyone. I can't put myself or others at risk which is extremely valid. A good reason not to hover. I do think they want to see Katie mix with the herd though for their own peace of mind and maybe not a bad thing because lots of experienced people will be there.
> 
> Katie is also gonna get fried. Between all the emotions and crying etc she's gonna be super stressed. Very sensitive :< Once alone am just gonna give her some nice food, peace and quiet.
> 
> 
> LOTS AND LOTS of photos tomorrow!
> 
> Finally it's happening. And honestly... 2 years too late. I didn't have the confidence back then or the knowledge to be an independent owner. But now its time and thanks to your support too <3



Hmmm, I remember when you couldn't see your horse because of Covid when you were sick and then you couldn't see YOUR horse because of Covid and had to make an appt to see her once a week if lucky. Yeah, "Because of Covid, only Y/O and 1 other for transport help. Farm rules, sorry" That would be what I would be saying. Don't even be worrying yourself about whether they talk smack about you and/or the new place. You won't hear it anyway so who cares? Guess who's going to be happier than a pig in mud? You are and Katie.

If you do get criticism, don't say a word. You don't have to defend yourself or your choices. Remember, Your power lies in your defenselessness.

Also, they don't need to see Katie mix with the herd for their own piece of mind. She was never anyone's horse there but yours. It's not like they are letting one of their horses go. She's yours and always has been. They can hate everything about the new place and they will because they want her to stay. It doesn't matter, she doesn't belong to them. Put Katie where you feel is best for her right now, not for anyone or anything else.


----------



## LoriF

I honestly wouldn't put her in with a herd right away. Sounds right to let her have some alone time to smell the air and roll in the dirt. A day or two would be enough. Allow her to get her sea legs and feel comfortable with the place before she has to establish herself with others.


----------



## Kalraii

2 MORE HOURS .... 

So nothing ever goes slick 

A just told me they didn't receive the wormer so Katie's not had it. I sent it in June and it IS my fault for not chasing it up. Honestly... it completely left my brain until last night. Farmer isn't isn't around until the afternoon. But safe to assumed that Katie will HAVE to stay in the "sick bay" until she's been wormed so that answers that. Docile side and hay it is. 

Farmer's *son* DID answer eventually and told me... I can collect hay whenever I wanted. My face :  ... because I don't have a car. Farmer and his wife told me several times that I can arrange to have bales brought there weekly and to just call them on the day. So am hoping this is just a misunderstanding... 


I am so anxious I wanna puke lol.


----------



## Acadianartist

Those are not big issues. Do the wormer at the new place (once the "spectators" have left). Ask the nice lady to help if necessary. Not a big deal. You will figure out the hay. Get some delivered if that's how it works. In the meantime, ask nice lady if you can buy a bit from her. Or buy some hay cubes/pellets, whatever so Katie has something to eat until you can get her hay. Call the farmer and his wife to clarify if the son's version is not the same as theirs. 

Relax. Don't overthink this. You will figure it out, and there will be unexpected challenges as you get a feel for how this place is run, but you will find a solution to each of those challenges.


----------



## Horsef

Well, I wasn’t this tense even when I was moving my first horse for the very first time. I hope everything goes well. Please remember than even if this goes belly up (AND IT WILL NOT), there are other yards out there. It helps me to know that I have an escape route when I get into the mode you are currently in - it is not the end of the world if it doesn’t work out (AND IT WILL WORK OUT!)


----------



## horselovinguy

Breathe....
Ask someone, anyone if they pass a feed supply, a tack shop if they could pick up a wormer for you.
Katie is UTD but you want to be positive all is good as she was out at a camp situation for the past 10 days and before full introduction to the herd you want to take no chances...
_No one _will fault you for that thought, _no one at your new residence_...the smut falls on the faces of those who did not follow up with a "did you send..." knowing you are diligent in her care.
Missed it huh? I truly wonder about that.. :|

The ball is in your hand and you are now bouncing it on the court readying for a sinker in the net of life...
I would foil the plans of the gang making this so difficult.
Take your horse and leave...go for a walk for a 1/2 hour.
Quietly ask one of the more vocal barn boarders or owner farmer to tell them about 15 minutes after you disappear that it is time for them to move on as they are a road hazard and blocking traffic you not wish to see them ticketed..
Carry your cell phone and have someone call you when they leave..
Till then, find a patch of grass and de-stress you and Katie from all the hoopla.

_Countdown has begun...._
So looking forward to the pictures of this reunion and your stress to be gone.
_Make it crystal clear that no one is allowed back as this is a private barn and not open to the public._
Visits are by invite only and because of COVID none will be happening for a long time.
The ambush you need to be ready for is the last onslaught and assault of "the privileged one" and family offering again last second to buy the horse from you...
Why I would not of allowed any but the lorry driver and one, so no ambush could take place.
Keep those panties firmly in place...

_Remember you owe them nothing, absolutely nothing.
No comment, no explanation...nothing.
*The less said the better.*
_
Now, go get your horse, go for that first so important walk together setting your future plans in motion.
Hugs....you got this and a bunch of us in your pocket for support. 
:runninghorse2:...


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## QtrBel

I have my paranoia about the wormer too. There is too much attention to all else for it to he overlooked. I can't imagine you sending without letting them know it was coming and if they are so meticulous in their care they would have let you know not arrived. Or they asked, you sent and again follow up is part of the service YOU PAY FOR. So while both parties bear some responsibility they are not innocent. To me another ploy for leave her here so we can take care of her properly.


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## LoriF

Wormer? Ha ha it's killing me. I don't know about there, but here, a tube of de wormer is anywhere between 4 and 13 dollars depending on what you buy. A or Y/O could not bring themselves to give Katie a tube of it even after all that she has given them? It's so laughable and petty. Whatever, so she gets de wormed when she gets there. Wouldn't surprise me at all if there was a lot of stuff that she didn't get that you paid for.


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## LoriF

Probably a mis- communication with the farmers son. LOL, I remember one time I asked barn owner (via text) if she minded if I move my horse trailer over to the other side of hers. I didn't think that she would mind but figured I would ask anyway. She said "No". I was thinking "what the heck" "why would she say no". And then I realized that she meant "No, she doesn't mind". I kind of forgot how I asked the question.


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## LoriF

_


horselovinguy said:



Make it crystal clear that no one is allowed back as this is a private barn and not open to the public.

Click to expand...

_


horselovinguy said:


> Visits are by invite only and because of COVID none will be happening for a long time.


I agree with this. I board my horses on another's property. Even though they are really cool, relaxed, people. I don't just invite whoever to come over to see my horses. Even though it's my horses, they are on THEIR property. I wouldn't really want someone dragging strangers to my home or property all of the time. My family members are ok. There have been times when my niece has asked me if it was ok if so and so came with us and I said "NO" because I didn't know them. 

These people have all of their belongings on their property and it wouldn't be cool if I inadvertently brought someone who would come back and steal or whatever. I'm just really careful like that.


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## Kalraii

*dramatic music*

... was very anti-climatic. It was heaving there coz the farrier was present. I wasn't ambushed in the end (phew) which I'm grateful for. Took her for a handwalk with A leading (and the group that came with her following but at a distance). Katie was VERY strong. She was RARING to meet the new exciting horses! We couldn't go in just yet because farrier had his hands full and one of horses was being naughty in her presence.

Sick bays were all taken so eventually had no option but to put her in the docile side. Interestingly there was no drama for over an hour! She walked past without even a look and just explored the paddock. They had only one spat:































It went SO well all the other DIY owners there were more than happy to chuck her in the right side and held our breath...

Meeting the current boss mare...








George the pony apparently likes to go for the knees but is maybe saving that move for another time...
















Pretty chuffed with green water aye?

















I have a lot of photos of her just chasing other horses now ****. VERY confident. She did get kicked by one gelding in a kick-off and the smack echoed through the air. But both horses walked off fine. 

Honestly when she didn't really react to me OR A I was relieved. Because ofc a lot of animals live in the present and I KNOW this. It's been part of most of my career. But it was so good to see first hand like this. She didn't give a care in the world. Settled right in really fast. I'm sure there will be more drama but nothing like I was expecting. The DIY owners were all amazed saying this is the first time a new horse has been introduced that its not been mental. Apparently its real havoc with every introduction. The recent horse put in a few weeks ago was a nightmare. But this naughty horse just steered well clear of Katie. But I reckon the heatwave yesterday probably tired them out. 

Katie was just enjoying grazing (what there was of it) and I decided to just leave her be. I've just come back to prepare her feed and take water down. I met over 10 other DIY owners (coz farrier). Thank you everyone <3 Will take more pictures this evening. I will give it a day or two before worming? I know its naughty but I also dont want her stressed and upset her tummy. No sick bay to put her in. Other DIY lot were just telling me to shush and worm her anyway...

It hasn't really hit me yet. I feel jet lagged. 

Tomorrow will start a journal I guess ^<^


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## horselovinguy

Love it....anti-climatic.
Think you would of been a force to be reckoned with when truly perturbed, actually know if they pushed you to far you would of gone off on them!

That aggressive gelding already senses the vibes that this is one momma he is not messing with cause she will kick his butt and put him rightly in his place..._mare power!!_
Bet Katie will straighten him out sooner rather than later when he forgets and pushes her..

I will say Kalraii I had forgotten how beautiful Katie really is. 
A very special horse to say the least and is no wonder the barn was truly not happy at losing her to her rightful owner.
Time to settle in, time to breathe and time for it to sink in...
Katie is home...*KATIE IS HOME!!*  :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
:runninghorse2:...


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## SteadyOn

Congratulations!!!!! Sounds like it all went as well as could be hoped. Love the pics!!

Also, I have to say, what a healthy, happy looking group of horses! And that paddock looks IMMACULATE compared to everything I have around here. Certainly nothing _*I*_ would be turning my nose up at!!


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## Acadianartist

Yay! She looks completely comfortable and confident! How awesome! It sounds like things went better than you ever imagined. There will be hiccups, and she may get kicked or bitten a few times. Heck, Rusty still gets the odd bite from Harley. But it sounds like she is where she belongs. Have a good night sleep tonight knowing the drama is behind you!


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## tinyliny

Are the horses shod all fours? Where I used to lease, horses in the big field had to have barefoot hinds. New horses that were shod all fours had to have the hinds pulled before being allowed into the 'big herd' . . . of about 12 horses.


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## LoriF

Yay!!! So glad she's home with you and everything went really smooth. Sounds like everyone was cool and drama free, people and horses.


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## Kalraii

tinyliny said:


> Are the horses shod all fours? Where I used to lease, horses in the big field had to have barefoot hinds. New horses that were shod all fours had to have the hinds pulled before being allowed into the 'big herd' . . . of about 12 horses.


Most of them are barefoot and those shod dont have any on their hinds including Katie!


Boy tonight was a bit iffy. Went to do evening check and feed. Everyone seemed calm. So went out and caught her easy. She's made a cute little friend called Toby who is about half her size. 

As I'm walking up to the gate Sam, a gelding in his 20's, led the rest of the herd full pelt at us. He looks and acts like a stallion. HE's the bombproof boy that I'll be hacking out with on the regular. But it was *dangerous.* I was smart enough just to loop the rope around her neck when leading just to be safe so I could let go of her easily and she wont be dragging a rope. I was a bit cautious of Toby because he was blocking me off from Katie when I first went out. But then he began body blocking (or trying) Sam and his cronies. He was literally protecting our rear! Sam was the old/current? herd leader and apparently its a bit of a seesaw atm because hes not quite staying on top of all the youngsters brought in and the other "boss mare". Katie, also a sweet heart, has proven time and time again that she'll watch my space and body block for me as well. It's ok I was out of dodge and well aware ahead of time what was about to happen. I let go of her and made space before they reached us. S wasn't coming at me ofc. But I just happened to be there... onkey: Sam has cushings and apparently since being medicated has been quite depressed. He lost his brother and best friend about 10 weeks ago as well. And two newcomers, a boss mare and returned gelding from training... probably losing his poor mind...

OK. Fine. He chased Katie away from the gate and they had a good gallop about.

I collect her again and this time pet Toby for letting me approach. He was quite a gentleman and Katie was relaxed around him even though he was practically hugging her bottom. So I figured ... she was ok with it, so am I. I look ahead and look at who is running at us AGAIN? Sam... -.- I had to let go and just get out of dodge. 

If I was alone I'd have called it quits and give them more time to settle. Katie was letting me catch her so that was good enough and she had grass.

But one of the other DIY girls was there. She knows the herd well and come and took Sam out the field. So finally I could bring Katie out for dinner! FINALLY WE COULD WALK TO THE GATE IN PEACE. Sam was NOT happy. The other girl was really struggling to hold him and he can't tie either from what I know. Finally she chucked him out and I could feed/see to katie in peace. I shouldn't have done it but I was SO PROUD of Toby for helping create space, safely at our rear and keeping his bottom turned from me AND for giving me a wide berth, I gave him a treat - will speak with his owner tomorrow. He and Katie swapped kisses over the fence their eyes all soft and gooey. 

The rest was uneventful. Katie and Sam will have to get used to each other soon enough. She was being a good girl. He was seeing red. I don't honestly think a stick will stop him, he was a bloodthirsty tank lol. His owner text me back saying that for him, this was good. She said one of the horses there actually broke her neck years ago in a similar type of incident and she had to re-learn to walk and write. I wish maybe I'd been given a heads up BEFORE?  But I played it safe and kept my eyes peeled anyway which I can confidently say helped keep me safe tonight. But from what I've been told Sam usually settles and people have no problem fetching their horses normally so will just give it time and play it by ear for now. I'm lining up my feedings when people are there initially to help out! 

But I'm alive. And well happy. Katie was being all cute and the fact she came to me a third time after being chased off twice... am very prowd xx


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## LoriF

Kalraii, which one is the naughty gelding? And, what does chuffed mean? Pleased?


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## Kalraii

LoriF said:


> Kalraii, which one is the naughty gelding? And, what does chuffed mean? Pleased?


Toby is now Katie's boyfriend. Toby was blocking me off but not being naughty or aggressive. He was just trying to cut me off when I first went out. Once he realised I was Katie's friend, too, he quickly accepted me.

Sam was the naughty gelding in his 20's who was acting like a stallion! Honestly if I hadn't have just loosely thrown a rope over her neck and actually was hanging on by a headcollar and lead rope it'd have ended very badly for us both! He was running at us (her) for blood!

Chuffed = pleased xD Very pleased! Sorry got carried away. Usually am pretty good at translating here. When I first joined the forum I'd do a million edits because I didn't want it looking like I was writing in an alien script!


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## QtrBel

I always took it to mean very pleased. Going back to read context.


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## MeditativeRider

So glad it went and is going well. Good luck with the herd dynamics. Even though I imagine in the time it is scary, I am sure it is also great to be doing and learning all this with your horse and building your self confidence.

Probably good to have the farrier and bunch of DIYers around at the drop off. A et al. would have looked rather silly to make a fuss about anything in front of a bunch of owners who quite happily have their happy looking horses in such a living situation.

Did a horse owner or a horse break its neck previously?

So funny re. chuffed. I did not realize it was not in the US vernacular and I did live in the US for a few years. I got the side eye about many other words though. When I think of the word chuffed I always envisage a pleased little garden bird like a sparrow or finch all fluffed up and chirping away and, well, chuffed with itself about something  So, for those in the US, you would not be as "pleased as punch" either?


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## Kalraii

MeditativeRider said:


> So glad it went and is going well. Good luck with the herd dynamics. Even though I imagine in the time it is scary, I am sure it is also great to be doing and learning all this with your horse and building your self confidence.
> 
> Probably good to have the farrier and bunch of DIYers around at the drop off. A et al. would have looked rather silly to make a fuss about anything in front of a bunch of owners who quite happily have their happy looking horses in such a living situation.
> 
> Did a horse owner or a horse break its neck previously?
> 
> So funny re. chuffed. I did not realize it was not in the US vernacular and I did live in the US for a few years. I got the side eye about many other words though. When I think of the word chuffed I always envisage a pleased little garden bird like a sparrow or finch all fluffed up and chirping away and, well, chuffed with itself about something  So, for those in the US, you would not be as "pleased as punch" either?


It was a horse OWNER that got her neck broken looking after one of the horses. Got caught up in a battle of the hooves! I would have never known and she's the one that is gonna guide me out on future hacks!


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## SteadyOn

There used to be one gelding who was a total troublemaker whenever I would bring the horses in. He would get them all ramped up and they would tear around and around, bucking and kicking... siiiiiigh...

I would go out wearing a helmet and holding a lunge whip. Did I look a bit silly? Yep. Did I feel safer? Yep. If there's a chance I'll be kicked in the head, I'd rather have something on my noggin. I also have no problem going after a horse with a lunge whip like I am going to KILL THEM if I have to.

I haven't tried this myself, but I'd heard that bringing a broom -- just a classic bristled broom -- out to the field is extremely effective at stopping charging horses. It has the element of surprise -- you can keep the business end on the ground until you need it, and who hits with a BROOM? -- along with being large and having some reach. And you can give a good swing and smack with it without actually injuring the horse.

Hopefully the antics will settle down once Katie is settled in, and she won't be everyone's favourite fancy new girlfriend there.


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## Horsef

I found that a crinkly plastic bag on a longish pole works like a charm if they don’t respect a stick. But test it out first and ask the owner of the gelding if they mind you using it. It might spook Katie though so be sure to get her used to is beforehand. I also used an umbrella with a cartoon character which had big eyes - that definitely worked. Keep it closed and only open it when he ignores everything else. But I would definitely wait for someone to help you in the first few days. Sam is a naughty boy.

I am so happy everything is working out.


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## tinyliny

It is likely one of them most dangerous parts of dealing with horses; taking one out of the field where there are others. You will have to take charge of this from the very beginning. 

Without injuring Sam, you will have to make him know, without a shadow of a doubt, that YOU are top dog, and he must not get too close to you . . . or else!


I would totally wear a helmet, and go in with a long dressage whip. I'd walk in and go after him the minute he took one step toward me, and I'd drive him off and around for a bit, until he looked respectfully , with caution and curiosity at me, but, keep reinforceing the command that when YOU say he moves off, he moves off! NOW!


Of course, Katie and the others may run off too, but if your intention is absolutely clear, Sam will know it is him that you are after.


I would catch Katie first, and have her on a pretty long lead line, such that she can move away from me if she is paniced, but hopefully will stay nearby, if you can stop her from charging through the line. IT depends on you and her respect for a leadline saying 'stop'.


But, if you can't handle her in one hand, and the whip that goes after Sam in the other, then let her go. Or, bring her into some other paddock, and have a go at Sam. 

I know this sounds out and out mean, but I would totally shake up Sam's world. Enlist your inner fire, and if you feel angry, so be it!


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## Celeste

I only have 4 horses in my pasture now. When I had more, I never went into it without a whip. I didn't have to use it. Just hold it. I also don't feed treats until the horse I am trying to catch is out of the pasture. 

Katie is beautiful!


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## QtrBel

Driving whip here. Longer reach. Horses figure out pretty quick who you are "speaking" to.


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## LoriF

Kalraii said:


> Toby is now Katie's boyfriend. Toby was blocking me off but not being naughty or aggressive. He was just trying to cut me off when I first went out. Once he realised I was Katie's friend, too, he quickly accepted me.
> 
> Sam was the naughty gelding in his 20's who was acting like a stallion! Honestly if I hadn't have just loosely thrown a rope over her neck and actually was hanging on by a headcollar and lead rope it'd have ended very badly for us both! He was running at us (her) for blood!
> 
> Chuffed = pleased xD Very pleased! Sorry got carried away. Usually am pretty good at translating here. When I first joined the forum I'd do a million edits because I didn't want it looking like I was writing in an alien script!


Awe, don't edit! Write how you speak. I think it's fun to hear how other people speak and figure out what it means if I don't know.


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## LoriF

Yes, whopping Sam with a wip won't hurt him one bit. The force that horses kick at each other and bite is way more than a human can do. There is a big difference from smacking them to make them stay away from you respecting space and just beating them while you are holding them. The latter is mean and abusive. The former is necessary to have them respect your bubble if they don't.


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## ACinATX

I recommend teaching Katie to come when you call her. So you would just stand at the gate and call her over to you. The way it sounds, her friend Toby will probably also try to come, but it will probably be safer having to sort out the two of them at the gate rather than having to plow through a whole herd.

Also, I think it's awesome that she already has a friend! I don't know why, but I just love horse friendships.


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## SteadyOn

This video is on a slightly different topic, but the message of it is good in trying to keep loose horses out of your personal space. The gist of it is to not just say "stay away from me" but to have a specific direction in trying to send a horse off. Makes a big difference.


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## Kalraii

I am alive! Things are good. I'm a lobster and tired.. in a good way! Will update properly soon. Thanks steady! Have seen that coz I love wws! am not new to getting from fields with some naughtiness but this gelding is nothing like usual stuff! He turns thr other horses into blood thirsty nutcases out for Katie! He is fine if I'm out there. But it doenst matter where he and his herd is... if I move Katie towards the gate he charges. The other people said that the only thing he responds to pressure wise is a water pistol and I have the owners permission. 

Katie was so tired yesterday she could barely walk. So I sat with her for 6 hours in the "grooming area" by a bale of hay and collecting water from the trough for her bucket. It was just us... all the other diyers left after lunch. When I have turned her out I always take her to the trough first and guard her but yesterday lunch drank 60 litres while i sat there o.o... shes a good drinker at least!

She really didn't want to nap but at least she had some safe time to relax! I put her in the docile side and there was no drama. A calm gelding when and just stood near her. I and went home. When I came back 2 hours later she was weaving on the barbed wire looking at Sam (stallion -gelding and herd leader) and the herd on the other side. Well a woman know what she wants. Brought her out and saw to her self-indlicted wound on her chest. And she had a cut on her right hind right on her hock (inside). There was a hoof shaped gash that must have been very recent. No swelling and it wasnt hot.

Poor girl is a little stiff and tired and battered. And in heat. She now has a boyfriend called Toby (picture included). Hes the bottom boy of the herd and the one that was trying to defend us (her) from Sam. Hes a real sweetheart to me now too! 

Also I didn't add here with everything else... but apparently at camp Katie had a big tumble - fully fell over and on both knees tripping over a jump. Apparently it was ugly to look at. No reason to not tell me... shes insured, with vets and I was aware of the risks when I agreed to let her go... But I was told by A only after they handed Katie over. If I had known (and trust me Katie looked fine) I would have kept her in the docile side longer or spent more with her away from the herd. But aside from being tired she is fine. I am planning on getting a vet out soon anyway for checkup. 

Anyway off to be scorched again. I swear the insides of my nostrils are even roasted.


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## Kalraii

And Katie does come when I call her - she did even still after all this time apart. Just he wont let her near the gate :< Not for her lack of trying though. Let's see how it is this lunch aye..


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## Acadianartist

Aww... poor Katie, and poor you! Still, she looks fine. The first few days in a new place are always hard. This herd is a bit tricky, but this is not atypical. I had to battle it out against a huge Percheron X when I boarded Harley. A few times out with a lunge whip and some aggressive chasing around fixed that. However, I realize it may not be so easy with Sam. What does everyone else do? The water pistol trick? Then just get one of those. 

I can't believe the yard didn't tell you about Katie's fall at camp. Wow. I don't even blame A, I blame the yard owner who was responsible for Katie. Completely unacceptable to hide something like that from you. What else have they been hiding I wonder? The thing about using Katie a lot at your old barn is that it increases the risk of injuries. So glad you have moved her! Love the pics.


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## MeditativeRider

Oh Toby is so cute hanging out at the fence for her.

Thanks for updating us even though you must be exhausted. Sorry Katie is getting the run around and that she got hurt at camp. I agree with the above, wonder how many other times she has had accidents with non-visible injury and they have not told you about it, and good she is removed from that now.


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## Emeraldsprings

Kalraii said:


> Also I didn't add here with everything else... but apparently at camp Katie had a big tumble - fully fell over and on both knees tripping over a jump. Apparently it was ugly to look at. No reason to not tell me... shes insured, with vets and I was aware of the risks when I agreed to let her go... But I was told by A only after they handed Katie over. If I had known (and trust me Katie looked fine) I would have kept her in the docile side longer or spent more with her away from the herd. But aside from being tired she is fine. I am planning on getting a vet out soon anyway for check-up


You should send the bill for the check-up to them. :evil:
Seriously, I am appalled at how they have been treating you. Please don't think because they are BHS approved or were opened by Royal appointment that they are the salt of the earth, unfortunately I've seen plenty of their type here. 
Never think that you should have to put up with that sort of behaviour just because there are worse places she could have been, there's always another way. They were taking your money, and you were more than generous about the whole thing, you should have been kept informed about everything. 
You should have been paying part-livery all along if Katie was being used in lessons. They would have been fully aware of this. Professional schooling livery is a different thing entirely to what they were doing by the sounds of it. 

I hope things settle down quickly at the new yard. It sounds like they are more welcoming people, I hope you get to actually enjoy riding Katie (for yourself!) very soon!


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## horselovinguy

Now a week since Katie has come home... :smile:

How are you doing?
How is Katie doing?
How is your obnoxious gelding doing now he has met his match in mare and owner not taking guff from him??


Time for a update please....


Have you ventured out yet to ride with your new friends?
:cowboy:....


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## Celeste

This is what happened when I stopped getting notifications. I saw your name on another post and thought of you. I hope that you and Katie are doing well.


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