# Cremello + Homozygous black = Grullo?



## Kayella (Feb 11, 2012)

Not unless a parent is actually a dun. One parent must be a dun in order for an offspring to be dun. It's most likely just a sooty buckskin with countershading that looks like a dorsal stripe.


----------



## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

It would be easy for dun to 'hide' on a cremello, and possibly even on the cremello's sire and dam (even if each was only a single cream dilute). So... it is possible.

It's hard to tell from that one picture, but that horse looks potentially like a classic champagne (black + champagne). That can happen if the cremello dam was actually a pseudo-double dilute (cream + champagne instead of cream + cream, although she could also be cream + cream + champagne)

Have you seen the horse in person, or gotten other photos? I'd want to see other dun factor markings before calling that horse a grullo.

ETA- Looked up the video on YouTube, which is in a poorly lit arena so doesn't help determine if there are dun factor markings, but the video description calls him a buckskin


----------



## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

To me that horse actually looks dun


----------



## Cacowgirl (Feb 19, 2011)

Whatever he is-he's a pretty young fellow!


----------



## Chief101 (Sep 23, 2012)

He is a classic champagne colour probably


----------



## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

I wish there were more pictures. He doesn't look like he has a dorsal stripe to me and strikes me more as a brownskin rather than grullo, which is entirely possible if the cremello dam was carrying At. 

However, it would also be possible for him to actually be grullo if the mare was actually a cremello dun, which would easily go unnoticed with how light that color is.


----------



## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

And the plot thickens... here's a video of him outside in the sunlight, with the comments claiming he is a silver buckskin!






I'm starting to think silver brownskin?


----------



## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Interesting. Silver's biggest giveaway is white eyelashes, but I can't tell. 
I would really like access to his pedigree. The "homozygous black" part deletes my thought of palomino from the way he looks in that new video.


----------



## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

He is sure cool looking whatever color he is!


----------



## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

If you are planning on buying him If he DOES have the gene or whatever.. HE DOESNT.. sorry.. you might as well pass him on.. to me he is gorgeous LOL


----------



## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

It would be lovely to have a whole panel of genetic tests done, but luckily, he's a gelding and his super special color can't be passed on. Muahaha.


----------



## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

barrelbeginner said:


> If you are planning on buying him If he DOES have the gene or whatever.. HE DOESNT.. sorry.. you might as well pass him on.. to me he is gorgeous LOL


Oh..no I had no interest in buying him! I actually clicked on his ad on accident ironically and was intrigued by his claimed color. :wink: He is a cutie though!


----------



## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Impossible. He's a National Show Horse. Dun doesn't exist in Arabians or Saddlebreds. Much more likely to be champagne hiding in the cremello Saddlebred dam.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Centaurheart (Jul 9, 2012)

I'm glad your not interested in him. I'm familiar with these lines because its a local breeder and these 'to the Max' horses are notoriously less than stellar in their dispositions. They've been breeding for color lately and not much else.  There are a lot of 'claims' about these animals... but ugh. I wish more people would breed for disposition and confirmation and not _just_ color or size.


----------



## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

I know why hes listed as that !!!!!!


----------



## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

I have a Equine now account. When you post the ad you have colors to choose from. 
The Only Silver color listed to pick is silver dapple. When you pick a color it goes into the title. 
Im guessing they just picked a color that seemed the closest. They should have just picked other.


----------



## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

I wish every horse had publicly available color testing results


----------



## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

He's nice, lovely color whatever it is. Can't say much about that video... Some of those really tick me off. Obviously not the greatest footing with him tripping all over the place.


----------



## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Is it just me or does that price seem incrediably steep for a young green National Show Horse? Are they really going for that much these days? I didn't think they had THAT much of a calling in saddleseat.

And if I'm paying 18K for a horse, I want to see it do more then prance, trip and canter on the wrong lead...... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Is it just me or does that price seem incrediably steep for a young green National Show Horse? Are they really going for that much these days? I didn't think they had THAT much of a calling in saddleseat.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


BUT BUT BUT He is a _Purty Kolor_©!!


----------



## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I forgot. Color trumps conformation and disposition every time. Silly silly me. My chestnut Arabian is worthless. =( Well actually that statement is probably true even if she was a super duper purty rare kolor. =P LOL
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Some people seem to think the horses they breed are worth more than they really are in reality. I almost bought a horse whose owner was like that- I would have had to immediately send the horse to a trainer for a month or two to get her to the point where she was *safe* to be handled, so I offered the owner about half what she was asking (still more than any of the trainers I had talked to said she was worth). She got all huffy saying 'She's a _purebred_. In a better market she'd be worth even more than what I'm asking for her!'

Whatever. In a better market, all horses would be worth more, but you're still not going to find someone willing to spend $15k on a horse that is too dangerous to complete a vet check!

ETA- That was almost a year ago, and the horse is still for sale. She even tried raising the asking price (because she had 'more training') but now the price is down below what she was asking when I looked and includes a free breeding to her stallion!


----------



## Centaurheart (Jul 9, 2012)

Its crazy what people are asking for in terms of their horses. For example, one breeder (local who knows this breeder) has a half freisian half saddlebred mare - nice mare no training though - for sale for 10K. She also has a half friesian half apply (that lets just say has a friesian body and an appy head and no hair at all seriously) that she's had listed for 15K then dropped to 2.5K then raised to 10K and now private treaty... I watch the website for giggles. I honestly do.

I just got a new horse myself... for a $600 adoption fee from a rescue. A killer 17hh eight year old athletic thoroughbred. I couldn't be happier and the rescue is even letting me make payments on the adoption fee. I'll never ever pay what I used to pay for horses. My first horse was a top notch half morgan half saddlebred registered american warmblood (performance) and cost me 2.5K. In todays market, that would have been insane. Did I get 2.5K worth of love out of her? Oh yea.. I still have her and we've been together for almost 20 years. 

They can keep their color. Seriously. I'll go for confirmation and personality any day. I'm too old to mess with flashy stunning highstepping snorting dangerous action.


----------



## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I couldn't agree more. Those crap random partbreds that you can snag for under a thousand can go pretty darn far if someone puts the time in. My 5 year old "Paint" (registered Paint sire, Drafty bred pinto dam) I picked up for $800 as a 2 year old and she's getting phenomonal marks in Training Level Dressage, schooling 1st Level with a goal of 3rd Level. Schooling 3'0" with ease and snappy knees. Why do I need anything more? Unless you're trying to go to the Olympics, cheap half breeds are all MOST people need! I will never spend buckets of money on a horse! A prominant coach/trainer is doing great in Preliminary Eventing on an OTTB she only bought a couple years ago. 

I firmly believe that "average" horses can do a LOT more then people think, they just never get a chance. There's a reason we hear SO many stories about that champion showjumper who was bought for $500 out of a muddy pasture. Just because a horse isn't registered or purebred doesn't mean it can't have JUST as much talent! And look at how many expensive horses turn out to be total duds!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## equinelyn (Dec 15, 2010)

He's a cool color! Im thinking silver Grullo! My horse is a Grullo and I did some research on it. It's a Dun factor gene with black. Mine was genetic tested because he is really dark for a Grullo. Look at all these shades of Grullo> SHADES OF GRULLO: Silver grulla, olive, dark slate, blue, white grullo, etc.


----------



## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Just a word of advice, reading the topic is usually a good idea. We've already figured out it's impossible for him to be grullo based on breeding alone. =)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## equinelyn (Dec 15, 2010)

OK I'm confused..I read the topic but Verona said "It would be easy for dun to 'hide' on a cremello, and possibly even on the cremello's sire and dam (even if each was only a single cream dilute). So... it is possible."

it is possible for a horse to carry both dun and cream dilution genes. My gelding had to be genetic tested to know that he was Grullo. He's homozygous for black factor, carrying 2 copies of the black gene. He looks dark brown/black.

Maybe I don't know genetics as good as you. But I was just giving my opinion. You didn't have to call me out like I'm an airhead.


----------



## equinelyn (Dec 15, 2010)

Actually, I was more focused on the video I saw than the ad. That horse could not be a grullo because their face has to be darker than their bodies. And his face is the same size. As far as price, they might have a high dollar on their horses to begin with, but whenever I see someone with some 17H horse, they automatically jack up the price to at least ten thousand. I guess anything is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. I breed and show Jack Russells, and all the time I see misfit muts selling for $1200, and there is always some idiot that thinks because they pay a lot, that the dog is worth more.


----------



## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

He's a National Show Horse but neither Arabians nor Saddlebreds carry dun so grullo is not possible. I did not call you an airhead, nor did I imply it, I just suggested that reading the entire topic is often a good idea because we cover so many different options.


----------

