# lope why??



## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

....because the announcer said so???


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## jazzyrider (Sep 16, 2007)

^^^ youre too funny lol

i heard once it was because of the whole pleasure thing. a nice slow, laid back lope is more 'pleasurable' pressumably than an accelerated canter with a purpose. i dunno...something like that


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

jazzyrider you are right lol

But my mare doesnt even like to lope so when she does its really fast.. but when I pull her back she trots... grrrr but shes green so I understand her confusion lol..


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

lacyloo said:


> jazzyrider you are right lol
> 
> But my mare doesnt even like to lope so when she does its really fast.. but when I pull her back she trots... grrrr but shes green so I understand her confusion lol..


Me too! Mine too... I can't do it right... I pull up too much, he stops.. I give too much... he's fast.. errr.....


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## crazed horse lover (Aug 24, 2008)

yeah that drives me crazy too, thanks for answering too!


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## Mira (Aug 4, 2008)

If you guys want to try to slow down your horses' lopes, when you pull back, keep your leg on so they know to keep going (if you're not doing so already). Apply slight pulling pressure first and increase until you get the result you want, then give them their face, but keep leg on to keep them rounded. They'll most likely speed up again within a few strides but if you stick to it and be consistent about it they will soon get the idea and be able to lope slowly for more extended periods of time. 
Just my suggestions to you guys. May or may not work for you or your horses, but still something you could try if you want.


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## horsey*kisses (May 12, 2008)

lol i think i answered this same question a couple of weeks ago lol

alright for example if you had to ride your horse for two or more days straight would you like to do it at a trot or a easy canter?? 
When horses were still the only way to get around and the real cowboys were slinging guns and all that they taught their horses to stay in step with the cows at the faster paces with a canter instead of a trot so the cowboys werent as saddle sore and for men....welll.....it was just eaiser lol 
so western pleasure is the ideal western horse and well that was it lol


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Mira said:


> If you guys want to try to slow down your horses' lopes, when you pull back, keep your leg on so they know to keep going (if you're not doing so already). Apply slight pulling pressure first and increase until you get the result you want, then give them their face, but keep leg on to keep them rounded. They'll most likely speed up again within a few strides but if you stick to it and be consistent about it they will soon get the idea and be able to lope slowly for more extended periods of time.
> Just my suggestions to you guys. May or may not work for you or your horses, but still something you could try if you want.


teehee... and where it gets even more difficult is in that he's spur broke so I have to be really careful w/ all my aids... AAAHHH.... actually it's getting better...


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## bgood400 (Nov 10, 2008)

At the AQHA shows now when they ask for the lope they say 'lope with forward motion' because some horses were going way too slow. Im not sure why its the way it is but thats just the trend and if you want to do good you have to go with it. When I show in pleasure at the AQHA shows i dont force my horse to be too slow. He stays consistant, keeps his head down, lopes at a good speed and he has a true lope. Alot of judges like a true lope over one thats not together but slow.


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## RusticWildFire (Jul 6, 2008)

Wow! I'm glad I saw this one. I was wondering about this myself when I was showing.

When I was first training my paint I had just gotten him to start cantering and my friend and I took our horses to a show out of town. Well, they didn't want to be separated. Her horse is a year older than Hunter so she had a little more work done with hers than I had with mine and she had her slow canter down but Hunter and I just had one speed. (I'm not a fan of the slow canter anyway..) So I was just thrilled that I got Hunter to canter in the ring! He'd rarely do it as he was still unsure... So anyway he was in there givin'er and we got by Erin and Gunther and Gunther wanted to stay by Hunter so he sped up and boy did Erin get mad at me!! I got yelled at lol. But I couldn't help it!


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## Tazmanian Devil (Oct 11, 2008)

horsey*kisses said:


> lol i think i answered this same question a couple of weeks ago lol
> 
> alright for example if you had to ride your horse for two or more days straight would you like to do it at a trot or a easy canter??
> When horses were still the only way to get around and the real cowboys were slinging guns and all that they taught their horses to stay in step with the cows at the faster paces with a canter instead of a trot so the cowboys werent as saddle sore and for men....welll.....it was just eaiser lol
> so western pleasure is the ideal western horse and well that was it lol


I always read that cowboys prized gaited horses for much the same reason.

This post, however, reminds me of a conversation that comes up every so often. I ride western. For no particular reason, I have always refused to post the trot. (I can do it, I just refuse to out of stubborness). My horse, however, has a trot that is smooth. When told that I must post for my comfort and the horses, my response is "if you can't easily sit the trot, it isn't your fault - it's the horse's. You simply need a new horse."

Yes, a smooth slow lope is good for long comfortable distances. But a gaited horse is better and a comfortable ground eating trot can be just as good!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

The really slow exaggerated lope became the fad in the late 70's and early 80's I think. Judges began to judge the "peanut rollers" higher than the natural moving horses. They are getting better now but it still looks like an unnatural gait to me. Most horses with the "peg-leg" motion for western pleasure are really not that pleasurable to ride. It is rough and tends to just feel weird.As for you guys on the green horses with the fast lopes, don't concern yourselves with controlling speed perfectly yet. As long as the horse is not running away with you, let him go at his speed. When he gets to going too fast, just give a little pressure and let him know "hey, slow down a little" and nothing more. If you keep him on the bit all the time, they will tend to start nosing through the bridle. Cruise control will come with time.


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## simbakitten (Nov 13, 2008)

I heard that when people were herding cattle they needed their horses to preserve energy so they could keep...cattleing... without their horse getting tired. I dont know if this is strictly true.


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## Got2Gallop (Oct 22, 2007)

I really dislike the whole super low head set, slooooow jog, slooooow lope of the Western Pleasure horses (at least the last time I checked) it looks so unnatural and choppy to me. But leave it to us humans to take something beautiful (the way a horse moves naturally) and twist it to a ridiculous extreme for sake of fashion and trends. Another perfect example: teacup hooves on big bulky halter QH's...........the DA who first went in that direction obviously didn't have the horses interests at heart.


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## WesternPleasure27 (Nov 9, 2008)

The first time you ride a slow western lope- yes, it feels funny, but when you consistently ride and show it, it's the best thing ever...same with the jog. It is smooth, and easy to feel (why do you think so many pleasure riders win Egg and Spoon? ;])

The thing a lot of people don't (or refuse to) understand is that these horses are BRED to be slow legged and travel with the classic WP headset. A GOOD WP prospect is one that carries itself slow and low from a very young age and only requires the teaching and refinement of aids during training with minimal slowing down done by the trainer. The ones that are naturally more fast with a higher headset are the ones who give off the "artificial, forced" look.

A fast lope/slow gallop looks VERY uncontrolled next to a slow loper and therefore will be marked down since part of what's being judged is how much of a "pleasure" the horse is to ride.


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## Siggav (Nov 21, 2008)

I think the main reason I have a hard time getting my head 'round the Western Pleasure mindset is that for me the main 'pleasure' I get from horse riding is from feeling the power and drive in a spirited horse, going fast, having the wind in my face from the motion and my arms full of mane.

It's that feeling on sitting on a tame volcano, so to speak. You feel the horse alert and awake, wanting to run and always wanting to go faster but they keep that in check just because you ask them to and you're a team and then regularily, when the ground is good and it's safe, you allow them to go as fast as they want (without breaking up into gallop, although sometimes that too) and yeah, the bliss..

I understand travelling for hours. I've done multiple day (my longest one was around 8 days) horse treks with between 7-10 hours in the saddle per day. That was on Icelandics and I really 'get' why you'd want gaited horses for travelling, 'cos that's a smooth ride in a full range of speeds.

but yeah I don't get why anyone would want to breed such low headset, slow moving horses. It just doesn't look like much pleasure (to me! NB) to ride at all. Maybe I'm just a speed and power junkie. Heh.. 

Also from seeing Western Pleasure shows it looks too slow from a travelling point of view. It'd take aages getting anywhere moving at those speeds. I don't think even herds of cows move that slow.

Having said all that though, I've never tried it so I don't know what it feels like.


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## WesternPleasure27 (Nov 9, 2008)

Today's WP horses are bred for the arena, not for working cattle or going out on trails (otherwise they'd be, well, working cow horses or trail horses).

They are also not made to be
"_always wanting to go faster but they keep that in check just because you ask them to and you're a team and then regularily, when the ground is good and it's safe, you allow them to go as fast as they want_"
I guarantee if you get on a NATURALLY bred WP horse and ask them to go as fast as they want, you won't get much :wink:
The thrill and adrenline us WP riders get is going out in a huge class and making a cut or winning the class- _there is no better feeling than seeing your TEAM WORK pay off._ We have bonds with our horses and if we don't get along, it's obvious.

Also, WP horses aren't dead, expressionless horses who have no personality.
They run, they buck, they snort, and have a good time out in the pasture although I must say my guys look like wusses trying to "run' with my gamer and trail horse...they couldn't keep up if they tried (because they are NATURALLY slow legged).
My gelding (who will be an all-around pleasure horse) follows me EVERYWHERE, he sees me and nickers, stands at the fence and watches me walk away...obviously he is a happy horse that shares a great bond with me.


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## Siggav (Nov 21, 2008)

I'm not disputing at all that the naturally bred WP horses are happy, well cared for and in good harmony with their riders/owners, or that they're bred to move like that. I'm absolutely sure your gelding leads a good life.

The thing I didn't understand is why, well.. anyone would on purpose breed a horse like that, but I think that that's because I'm coming from a horse culture that really values speed, power and somewhat feisty horses. 

I'm also not particularly competitive and while I very much enjoy working with horses I've never really found the urge to compete so that doesn't hold much appeal. When it comes to barrel racing, cutting and jumping I can see the appeal. I really enjoy herding horses and sheep (I've never worked with cattle though) and while I've not jumped so far it looks like a fun activity in itself and barrel racing looks like a lot of fun, since I enjoy galloping and doing tight turns while herding when that's called for. Dressage is slightly different but I can see the use of the lower levels there as a really good grounding to make sure your horse is supple and balanced and in good shape so it'll be even better on the trails or when herding etc.

Thank you for your response, it's really interesting to see just how many different ways there can be to keeping and riding horses.


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## WesternPleasure27 (Nov 9, 2008)

I wasn't necessarily addressing everything you wrote in my last post...I just like to point out and disprove some of the misconceptions (one of which is that these horses have no personalities).

_"The thing I didn't understand is why, well.. anyone would on purpose breed a horse like that, but I think that that's because I'm coming from a horse culture that really values speed, power and somewhat feisty horses."_

Because there is a market and competitive venue for them 
There is NOTHING better than working with a calm, willing horse who would walk off a cliff if you asked them to...don't get me wrong, I love my speed events (I run barrels as well) but the feisty "NO-sayer" attitude of some of those horses drives me NUTS.


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## Siggav (Nov 21, 2008)

WesternPleasure27 said:


> Because there is a market and competitive venue for them


I had noticed :wink: I'm just having a hard time to understand why, but really it's ok that there's a horse sport out there that I don't feel an urge to do at all. To each their own and all that and there's plenty of space for everyone.


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## WesternPleasure27 (Nov 9, 2008)

Siggav said:


> I had noticed :wink: I'm just having a hard time to understand why, but really it's ok that there's a horse sport out there that I don't feel an urge to do at all. To each their own and all that and there's plenty of space for everyone.


Oh, I agree 
There are some disciplines I'll probably never "dip my toes" into but I think it's important to learn and be exposed to all of them.
I used to be in the same mindset as a lot of people about pleasure until I tried it. Now I love it.

I know it's not everyone's cup of tea and I'm glad to see you are flat out admitting you don't understand instead of bashing. That's something I can respect.


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## GottaRide (Dec 10, 2007)

Siggav said:


> I think the main reason I have a hard time getting my head 'round the Western Pleasure mindset is that for me the main 'pleasure' I get from horse riding is from feeling the power and drive in a spirited horse, going fast, having the wind in my face from the motion and my arms full of mane.
> 
> It's that feeling on sitting on a tame volcano, so to speak. You feel the horse alert and awake, wanting to run and always wanting to go faster but they keep that in check just because you ask them to and you're a team and then regularily, when the ground is good and it's safe, you allow them to go as fast as they want (without breaking up into gallop, although sometimes that too) and yeah, the bliss..
> 
> ...


To me, the feeling of sitting on a tamed volcano scares the crap out of me. I'd rather know exactly what my horse is going to do, and when he's going to do it. I don't want to feel the wind rushing through my hair. I like the rythmic pattern of the jog and lope. I like the consistency of being in control of my horse. 

Some people like roller coasters, others stick with the merry go round.


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## Barbarosa (May 19, 2008)

_I have never competed in or judged a western pleasure event, I'm a lowly trail rider. But if I had to take a guess of why a controlled slow lope would be judged. It would be "collection" more than speed. _
_Collection, or bending at the pole with a lower headset rounds the back and tightens the horses stomach muscles, enabling the horse to carry more weight at longer distance than a horse with a high headset and hollow back. Collection is the key to long term soundness. Practicing collection will help develop the muscle line along your horses spine and neck which means less muscle strain or chances of becoming swaybacked with age._

_"_Collection is nothing more than the re-balancing of the moving horse. The horse naturally carries 60-70% of his weight on the forehand. This becomes obvious when you consider the fact that the head and neck are in front of the front legs. The collected horse is taught and conditioned to be able to shift some of this weight off of the forehand by bending at the poll, lowering the head and engaging the hind quarters to be able to step more fully under the horse’s mass in order to carry the additional weight of the rider more efficiently. Collection is a process; it cannot be achieved overnight. It takes time to condition the neck, back and abdominal muscles that the horse uses to elevate his back and bring his hind end up underneath him."

A collected horse with a rounded back also makes better contact with the bars of your saddle. When a horse lifts its head and hollows its back you lose contact with the saddle, this can cause saddle sores and an uncomfortable horse.
We ride gaited horses where collection is even more important.. You not only get a smoother more comfortable ride when your gaited horse is collected but a sounder (less chance of going swaybacked), less pacey, and over the life of the horse a stronger, more healthy, and happier animal.
So maybe what they are judging is not so much the horse, but the rider and the desire we all have to keep our horses sound.


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## TXHorseLaw (Nov 20, 2008)

Western pleasure, at a competitive level, is a challenge for any horse not created for that event. Our pleasure horses are all bred to do just that, but even those horses are all not ultimately suited for the event. The event is so competitive, that if we try to make a pleasure horse, instead of breed him, it ultimately shows in the arena. Sure, we can eventually get any horse to lope slow, but it'll look completely different than when he's made for the event, and he won't be as happy with ears up and eager to go at those gates, and when compared side by side, the natural pleasure horse will win most of the time. 

The same goes for reining. When you can look out in the pasture, and see a reining/working cow bred horse just chase a little steer down the fence, just for fun, it's wonderful. When you see an elegant pleasure yearling, slowly loping or jogging in the pasture, with his head level and balanced, just for fun, that's just as great. They key is to be a talented enough trainer that you can ascertain which event the horse loves and is naturally talented at, and then develop them without getting in their way. 

Though we love the experience of riding reiners, the magic of a natural, slow lope or jog, that you could ride for hours is just as magical, though in a different way. While I don't ride all events, the most enjoyable horses are those who do well at what they like to do. I'm not a barrel racer, but to see a horse that's gifted and enjoying that event, is just as nice. 

And never think that a western pleasure horse doesn't have to be EXTREMELY athletic, and built naturally to move that way, because it's an extraodinary feat for a horse to naturally lift his withers and bring the hind legs underneath him in a collected, balanced way. We've had 'bred' pleasure horses that just had to work too hard to do that, and for them, it was unpleasant and too much work. 

But for some of us, the slow, balanced gaits of a true pleasure horse are hard to beat.


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## pleasurehorse11 (Dec 1, 2008)

GottaRide said:


> To me, the feeling of sitting on a tamed volcano scares the crap out of me. I'd rather know exactly what my horse is going to do, and when he's going to do it. I don't want to feel the wind rushing through my hair. I like the rythmic pattern of the jog and lope. I like the consistency of being in control of my horse.
> 
> Some people like roller coasters, others stick with the merry go round.


 
I completly agree with this. I have been around horses my whole life at my barn while helping bring horses in i tell the farm hand i don't do crazy! lol most of these are very level headed horses andbut some are a little nutty!but i do give a lot of credit to those who do deal with and put up with the more spirited horses. my QH has plenty of spirit as she tries to eat everything in sight and thats about all i can take! when you know what is going to happen underneath you is a great feeling even with my young horses they are so smooth if they buck sometimes i cant even tell and will look at whoever i am riding with and ask " what are they doing"


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## bgood400 (Nov 10, 2008)

WesternPleasure27 said:


> Today's WP horses are bred for the arena, not for working cattle or going out on trails (otherwise they'd be, well, working cow horses or trail horses).
> 
> They are also not made to be
> "_always wanting to go faster but they keep that in check just because you ask them to and you're a team and then regularily, when the ground is good and it's safe, you allow them to go as fast as they want_"
> ...


I couldnt agree with you more. Being in perfect sinc with your horse and nailing a class can almost have a magical feeling to it. These horses are bred to be this way, they are not forced to. The majority of pleasure horses ENJOY there jobs. They love taking it easy and just going as fast as they have to. I have an all-around AQHA show gelding that I took in barrels to fill a class once. It was almost impossible to make him go fast. I kept pushing him and you could tell he was like a winy little kid saying 'do i have to? I really dont want to!' Altough pleasure horses may be laid back, and 'dead' as some of you may say they do have a TON of personality. I refer to my horse as a giant puppy. He follows you everywhere and when he does sometyhing he knows he is not soposed to do he just puts his ears up and gives you this look to die for. He also loves zippers.  If you say you dont know why you would want a horse to be bred this way then thats your opinion. I dont understand why people wouldnt want a horse like that.


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## pleasurehorse11 (Dec 1, 2008)

I think the slower the legged and more 'dead headed' the horse the more versatile the horse. If your horse can go in a western pleasure or HUS class and come out winning your horse can do more than a horse that is more spirited or flighty. Quieter horses are easier to work with than horses whose attention it harder to get . My mare is WP all the way I have to use so much leg and seat to just get her to move w/o troping that its ridiculous! Now she was never dogtracked or pulled back to hard she is just lazy, but I can take that horse in a WP class come out jump her or go in barrels and win every class! when i used to go in a barrel class just as a filler for some extra points everyone would woop and tell me not to set my horses head that it was barrels and i was supposed to go fast . Well my all around and high points were so close with another person that barrels would make or break Champ and reserve so i started pushing my horse and i would take like 2nd's and 3rd's in barrels but the minute we were done i would pick up tice on my reins and lope on out ! it drove all the barrel people crazy that i was beating them and loping on out of the ring!lol she does look a little funny when i open her up she not used to running! this right here proves how much more versatile a quiet horse is than a high spirited horse . The fact that a horse would try so hard in every discipline shows how much personality and love they have for their owner.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I have nothing against people who ride pleasure or the horses themselves. I just don't like the way that they look. With the extreme low head carriage and slow legs with very little joint action, it can look like a deadheaded horse to a casual observer. I am all for a calm horse with a level topline and perfectly controlled gaits, that is how I train mine. But for what I do, most WP bred horses are not suitable because I do work cattle and at times, I end up having to go from 0 to 60 almost instantly and most of those horses are just not built for that because of their naturally slow gaits. I love to have a calm broke horse with that phenomenal explosive power ready anytime that I ask for it. Also, I understand how much training it takes to get a horse to where they will win the WP classes. I just prefer a horse with long ground covering gaits to the short strides of WP.


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## I Love Lane (Dec 11, 2007)

would now be a good time to point out that the official horse of the Pro Rodeo Association is the Quarter Horse - I hate to say it but there is plenty of QH's Paints and Appys out there that are WORLD CHAMPION working horses. Just because they have been refined down one side to be perfect pleasure horse - it has also happened on the other end of the scale for reiners, ropers and cutters. Being a QH does not make an animal incapable of a "that phenomenal explosive power ready anytime".........:evil:


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## I Love Lane (Dec 11, 2007)

pleasurehorse11 said:


> I think the slower the legged and more 'dead headed' the horse the more versatile the horse. If your horse can go in a western pleasure or HUS class and come out winning your horse can do more than a horse that is more spirited or flighty. Quieter horses are easier to work with than horses whose attention it harder to get . My mare is WP all the way I have to use so much leg and seat to just get her to move w/o troping that its ridiculous! Now she was never dogtracked or pulled back to hard she is just lazy, but I can take that horse in a WP class come out jump her or go in barrels and win every class! when i used to go in a barrel class just as a filler for some extra points everyone would woop and tell me not to set my horses head that it was barrels and i was supposed to go fast . Well my all around and high points were so close with another person that barrels would make or break Champ and reserve so i started pushing my horse and i would take like 2nd's and 3rd's in barrels but the minute we were done i would pick up tice on my reins and lope on out ! it drove all the barrel people crazy that i was beating them and loping on out of the ring!lol she does look a little funny when i open her up she not used to running! this right here proves how much more versatile a quiet horse is than a high spirited horse . The fact that a horse would try so hard in every discipline shows how much personality and love they have for their owner.


way back when i was in youth i had a paint gelding that won every major award there is to win as a pleasure horse in Australia - my at the time boyfriend rode on the Rodeo circuit here and his best friend was a stock contractor - they used to take my pleasure horse to the rodeos, buck him out as a bareback horse and then jump on him and lope him out of the arena. He was bucked out 12 times for no rides! PLEASURE HORSES MOST DEFFINATELY CAN HAVE SPIRIT.... LOL:lol:


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## sandsarita (Jan 20, 2008)

Hehe - the story of your horse being used in rodeo comps made me laugh. The all-around horse that I showed on the QH circuit for years (top 10 in nation high point eq) would buck so hard that my trainer and other people who had witnessed his antics would try every year to make me enter the local rodeo as they figured they would win money off of me, thinking that if I could stay on him I could stay on anything. 

Personally, I think the best all-around horses, and esp WP horses, are actually quite spirited. In order to really move properly, they can't be of that completely dead-head attitude. I still remember watching the girl who won the reserve world champ in amy WP a couple of years ago get bucked off by her "quiet" WP horse the night before the finals. Didn't affect her any in the class.


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## JHickie (Dec 5, 2008)

I found that some of the lopes, as well as the trots, were starting to look more like lameness than pleasure. They were teaching the horses to go way to slow.


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## Mira (Aug 4, 2008)

JHickie said:


> I found that some of the lopes, as well as the trots, were starting to look more like lameness than pleasure. *They were teaching the horses to go way to slow.*


That may not necessarily be true. They may have not been going too slow, just not moving correctly and using their hind ends properly.
I didn't see whatever you're talking about so perhaps the horses you're describing actually were moving at such a pace that it was actually too slow, and if this is the case I apologize.


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## toosexy4myspotz (Oct 7, 2007)

It took me about two weeks and poco has a lope mastered. Its gorgeous but I HATE riding that way! I feel so dumb for some reason.


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## GottaRide (Dec 10, 2007)

toosexy4myspotz said:


> It took me about two weeks and poco has a lope mastered. Its gorgeous but I HATE riding that way! I feel so dumb for some reason.


If you've mastered a WP lope in two weeks, I'd love to know your secret!


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## toosexy4myspotz (Oct 7, 2007)

out of the 5 years I had him I NEVER made him lope until one day I finally decided I was going to try it and I used the word lope when he done it and nope as soon as I say lope he drops his head and just does it. He loves to lope. All I done was put a little more pressure on him in the round pen to get him into a canter and asked him to slow his canter and not break his gait.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

> Being a QH does not make an animal incapable of a "that phenomenal explosive power ready anytime".........


That is not what I was saying, I was saying that I don't much care for *WP bred QHs *because they tend to not have the starting power of a differently bred horse. I love QHs but only as long as they are bred for performance sports like reining, cutting, working cow horse, etc. And even though I know that most WP horses are far from dead-headed, someone who doesn't know horses would probably think that because of the way that they move.


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## Junebug (Jan 18, 2009)

Accually Now they would have a horse rather be loping true then looking fake and having a extremly slow lope, I have recently found this out because my horse lopes to slow


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## Rebelappy (Dec 22, 2008)

i personally dont care for the really slow wp lope but i run barrels and such so i like my speed how ever i have a friend that taught her WP mare to be a "peanut roller" and such it wasnt what the mare was bred for but she has done very well in the show and is WP champion. however this last year she started having alot of problems with her hips and such not couldnt keep her sound and the vet literally knew she WP horse before it was even said cause they have seen alot of them coming in with problems because it isnt thier normal gait.. she had to be laid up for a year ! so my feelings on it are if that is how your horse naturally moves GREAT. if its not and you want that WP lope maybe look else where so your hare doesnt pay for it later


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