# Stopping my horse bit vs. hackamore



## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

This is a training issue, not a bit issue. Your horse needs to learn how to respect you and your aids. Putting a bigger bit on him will not ensure that. It could actually create other problems for you.

I thinks he safest thing would be to go back to basics, do lots of groundwork and work at the walk/trot. I know cantering and galloping is fun but losing control of your horse is not, and its not safe.
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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

*Training and repetition is the ONLY thing that gets a horse to reliably stop. * This is why we start colts in an arena or round pen so that during the first rides your young horse can't bolt.
After that it's a matter of personal preference. I like to start my horses with a snaffle and then finish them with a curb. Many people ride successfully with a bosel or hackamore. Frightened horses will run wild and draw blood on a bit or anything else you are using to "stop" them if they are green, like your horse sounds to me to be.


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## Nattatonka (Oct 2, 2013)

Okay before anyone else says my horse needs training or I need training or he's green..none of that is true and you'd understand if you knew me and Tatonka (my horse) in person..he is an excellent trail horse..western trained..neck reins knows everything western style and this "problem" I'm addressing here is very rare when it does happen...I want everyone to understand he is a good horse! Yes everyone could always have some training..learn something new but my horse is 15 years old he knows the ropes so to speak. And I just want to know if I should switch to a bit. A shanked bit! And details on how the shanks work. Please and thank you!
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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

My preference is always a snaffle. If a horse tries to run off I'll start pulling his nose around and bang my inside leg into his ribs. I might even use a riding crop behind my leg to get his attention. I will make his life miserable. Only when he's at a standstill is he allowed to straighten up. He'd better not start moving, even to sneak a step or his nose will be looking up his butt.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

Don't use a shank so I can't help. I'm a bosal old woman myself. But I do agree with DancingArabian that some touch up training is needed. All of us and our horses need a refresher course here and there. No disrespect to you or your horse!


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

No one said that your horse is a bad horse. I certainly didn't say he was! However he is not a *respectful* horse - if he was, he would stop reliably. There is no reason to get angry or feel defensive. Lots of us here have horses with training issues that we're working on. No one said your horse is green or anything - and it's not a bad thing if he is.

Your horse will stop when you teach him to respect your aids. The fact that he knows his stuff means that he's also going to know how to get away with naughty behavior. Going back to basics is something most if not all of us have to do at some point or another.

So simply put, you have to teach your horse that you are in charge and to respect your aids. Going back to basics with the halt transitions and groundwork will teach him this without putting you in danger.

I do not think he needs a shanked bit to solve this problem. It's definitely something you can correct without it.
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## gssw5 (Jul 30, 2013)

Learn how to do a one rein stop correctly, then practice, practice and practice until you and your horse are comfortable doing it. Get so it is second nature to use one rein to stop, you should not be pulling back with both reins to stop anyway. It gives your horse the opportunity to ignore you. Whether or not you use a bit or a hackamore not stopping even once is dangerous, much less running across a road. 

The first thing all my horses learn is one rein stop, the first thing my kids learned was a one rein stop. Just last week we were trail riding and my daughter was leading, her horse spooked at something, spun and went to bolt she picked up one rein pulled his nose to her boot the horse stopped. Since horses are flight animals my horse and my other daughters horse all moved into flight mode out of habit we both picked up one rein and bent out horses around we all took a breath and we moved on. We could have really gotten into a wreck if the first horse had continued running into the line of horses following him. Learn a one rein stop it will save your butt at some point. Remember bend is your friend.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

There is nothing magic about a one rein stop. Without lots of training, a horse will blow thru it just like a 'two rein' stop. A horse can gallop full speed with his nose at your knee.

Pulling back with both reins is great in a curb bit, not so useful in a snaffle.

For the OP: I like a curb bit, because one of my horses responds well to pressure on the poll. Another stops fine with a snaffle. I haven't tried a hackamore. If you want to think about curb bits, I suggest reading this thread:

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-tack-equipment/bit-information-curb-western-type-bits-69588/

You may or may not find something of value in this video:


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## Nattatonka (Oct 2, 2013)

Okay yeah I think you guys are right..I think I need to work with him more and my neighbor said I need to stick with a hackamore...no need to switch the bit..but maybe get a different hackamore..besides overall my horse does amazing really with a hackamore
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## wtwg (Oct 20, 2013)

This might be slightly off subject, but we use mechanical hackamores on certain a few of our horses. I find they are extremely helpful in certain situations, if used correctly. They have more stopping power than regular western hackamores, but are better with horses that do not like bits. Make sure you use the *mild* versions though, as some of them are glorified torture devices. Remember that the chain should not be tight at rest.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

gssw5 said:


> Learn how to do a one rein stop correctly, then practice, practice and practice until you and your horse are comfortable doing it. Get so it is second nature to use one rein to stop, you should not be pulling back with both reins to stop anyway. It gives your horse the opportunity to ignore you. Whether or not you use a bit or a hackamore not stopping even once is dangerous, much less running across a road.
> 
> .......Learn a one rein stop it will save your butt at some point. Remember bend is your friend.


There is no need to teach this, nor practice it for that matter. And does not matter if horse is trained for it or not. It works just fine with no training.

I was taught by my father very, very young, maybe 5? If horse bolts, do not pull back with both reins, but to take/release from one rein to the other, so horse cannot set head against your hands....if that didn't bring horse back to you?

Then "give one rein, shorten the other and with that rein, nose to knee low and slow." Hand needs to be at knee level, and the whole concept is to get them to circling, and bringing their mind back to what you want.

I've used it, successfully, still when young girl...and I guarantee you the horse had not been trained for it. Way too much commonsense horse handling has now been drug out into 6 pages of lessons or an hour long clinic on each step. Which is foolish.

Of course...IF you have the space and horse is bolting out of the "I want to scare you so you don't ride mode" instead of "run for your lives the dam is busting"....you can urge horse on. Once horse thinks you are wanting to go fast?

They usually decide not a good idea after all.


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## Nattatonka (Oct 2, 2013)

wtwg said:


> This might be slightly off subject, but we use mechanical hackamores on certain a few of our horses. I find they are extremely helpful in certain situations, if used correctly. They have more stopping power than regular western hackamores, but are better with horses that do not like bits. Make sure you use the *mild* versions though, as some of them are glorified torture devices. Remember that the chain should not be tight at rest.


Yes I use a mechanical hackamore on my horse too..a mild one and it always worked fine I think it still will but I need some tuning up maybe and I know how to get him to stop I gotta make him circle until he just stops
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## Nattatonka (Oct 2, 2013)

Palomine said:


> There is no need to teach this, nor practice it for that matter. And does not matter if horse is trained for it or not. It works just fine with no training.
> 
> I was taught by my father very, very young, maybe 5? If horse bolts, do not pull back with both reins, but to take/release from one rein to the other, so horse cannot set head against your hands....if that didn't bring horse back to you?
> 
> ...


Thanks what you said makes sense! Yeah I know about the circling method..and the hand needing to be at the knee makes sense too! So thanks! I don't think I'll need to change to a bit with him now anyway
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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

the one rein stop only works if you can apply it really quickly, and thats the reason why practicing it is helpful; so that the horse learns that one rein raised and shortened means to stop and disengage his hind. if you have not practiced it, it might still work, but you have to be stronger at it, and the horse might be able and willing to blow past it and run on with his head pulled way over to the side; something that is exceedingly dangerous.

the reason you practice is so that he gets the connection made; my rider applies one rein real short/tight; equals = I DISENGAGE AND STOP. IMMEDIATELY. the rider reward with a loose rein, a pat and a 'good boy' and goes on. pracicing helps the rider become better able to shorten the rein quickly, stay upright and centered and the horse to respond correctly the first time. Since you must apply the one rein stop BEFORE the horse gets well established in the bolt, it's wise to practice it when you are not in a bolting situation,so you can do it in real life easily and quickly.

do not try to apply it once the hrose has reached speed, which can mean only 3 or 4 strides. so, you must be able to react, apply and stay calm; just like that!


you think it's all a matter of your bit. this is a matter of how you are riding this horse, and your thinking s about his galloping off sometimes, "this is fun" and other times "this is too much, stop!". you need to get your horse more accessable to the Go and the Whoa at all gaits before you start galloping. I do not think you are really serious about this, to be honest. you are looking for a shortcut, for an answer based in tack, and honey, it ain't there.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"_Then "give one rein, shorten the other and with that rein, nose to knee low and slow." Hand needs to be at knee level, and the whole concept is to get them to circling, and bringing their mind back to what you want._"

A - That doesn't work in places where you cannot circle, and

B - Yes, a horse can gallop straight ahead with its nose at your knee. Been there, done that. Also met a woman last week whose horse once ran into a fence like that...she (the rider) broke 6 bones.

Pulley stops can also work at times.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

The thing to be careful with about the one rein stops is that if the horse disengages his hind end (IE swings it around and stops using it to run), some horses get really whippy with their behind and you can be left behind and onto the ground. It can also cause a horse to become unbalanced and fall. It's a great tool to have, but you have to use it carefully.

Pulley rein as bsms mentioned is also a useful tool to have in your toolbox.

If you google "one rein stop" and "pulley rein" you will find lots of videos and articles on both.


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## wtwg (Oct 20, 2013)

If you already use the mild version of the mechanical hackamore, DO NOT GET ANOTHER HACKAMORE. There is only one version I would ever put on a horse. That's this one:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTAwWDUwMA==/z/A54AAOxygj5SgMS9/$_2.JPG
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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Teach your horse English "Whoa", from the ground. You want him to slam on the brakes when you ask for a whoa. I have seen this in action. You've seen it, too, if you've watched "True Lies" and the police horse backs up when Arnold tells him to back.
I'm glad that you like your horse. Truly. However, I've been in horses for almost 30 years and I am never satisfied with my horse's training. Unless you can be picky and fussy your horse will always disappoint you. They see you as a member of THEIR herd. One of you must always be in charge, and a horse will fill the vacuum if you don't become the #1 in the relationship, in EVERY WAY.


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

OP, this response may not be for you, but for the forum in general. 

I am one of those folks that uses Clicker Training for my horses in certain situations. Folks on here have asked me this: when I use CT, what could it possibly be good for and especially, why and when would I ever use it in the saddle. A good stop is one example.

Of course, I have been working with all my horses on proper CT manners and etiquette, so they all know how to respond to the click (in this case, I don't use a clicker, I use a "tock" sound that I make) under saddle. They immediately stop and bend their head around in a nice Clinton Anderson-type flex, after they hear the sound, and take their treat from my hand. 

My gelding was not a good stopper. He is not my riding horse, and his rider did not know how to make him stop well (or go well for that matter). To freshen him up 6 months ago, I CT'ed with him in the arena, and gave him a jackpot whenever he stopped immediately. It only took 10 minutes of practice before he was doing a sliding stop. Now his rider has to be mindful not to ask with too much rein or seat or she will get a hard stop at any gait.


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## Nattatonka (Oct 2, 2013)

wtwg said:


> If you already use the mild version of the mechanical hackamore, DO NOT GET ANOTHER HACKAMORE. There is only one version I would ever put on a horse. That's this one:
> 
> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTAwWDUwMA==/z/A54AAOxygj5SgMS9/$_2.JPG
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It wouldn't let me see the picture..could you send me another link?
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## DixieMay1996 (May 2, 2013)

If your horse is used to a hackamore, then keep using it. I use a bosal. The one-rein-stop is probably the most reliable of the advise I've read so far. I've used it many many times. Most horses usually respect the bend and will stop. Try running with your head turned to your shoulder. Not easy.


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## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

I saw this the other day and found it useful. I like his videos and training style a lot, and this might help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8V2ZCTyfNw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
T-Mobile. America's First Nationwide 4G Network


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## Rideordie112 (Dec 7, 2013)

I use a billy Allen bit. It's a shank bit, but it has a broken center with a copper roller over it (not a tom tumb) it's meant to be ridden one handed, but can humanely be ridden two handed for correction purposes.
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