# Horse will not trot with rider



## gothicangel69 (Aug 2, 2011)

I have only ridden Flash a few times, as I just finished his ground work, and I cannot get him to trot while I"m on his back. I've been riding with a bareback pad and snaffle bit. He does great at a walk, but when you nudge him to speed up, he seems to get irritated and pins his ears. He will not go faster though. 
I checked his back, and there are no sore spots, and his teeth were just done a few months ago. 
Could he be acting like this because he feels unbalanced? He's a tad over three yrs old and can be quite uncoordinated at times. What else could cause this? He has no problem trotting in the round pen or in the paddock. 
Any advice is appreciated
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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Personally unless you are very light or a very good rider with great balance I would not trot 3 yo with bareback pad. Because of the still developing bones and no weight distribution of the rider. 

I think he may just be afraid to trot because he's not feeling secure and balanced (and it's not a surprise for such a young horse), or simply just doesn't understand the cues. I'd highly recommend to use the trainer to start the horse (at least to take lessons with) if you have no experience in it.


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## gothicangel69 (Aug 2, 2011)

I have broken quite a few horses for pleasure riding and they have done wonderfully. I started with the pad as he's still growing and do not want to buy a saddle yet. He is only being lightly ridden until I see if I can borrow one from one of the leasers here- by lightly I mean less than 1\2 hour at a time and only at a walk. I just want to try a brief trot so he can get used to the cues (no more than a few strides) until I can get a good saddle. 
I weight about 120lbs and would consider myself a good rider .
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## gothicangel69 (Aug 2, 2011)

it seems like he's nervous to trot because of balance issues, but just want to get some opinions other than my own as I know a lot of people here are very knowledgable.
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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

gothicangel69 said:


> it seems like he's nervous to trot because of balance issues, _Posted via Mobile Device_


Which is what Kitten val said. The bareback pad does not hold the rider in position. Heck, it doesn't hold itself in position.

Doesn't matter how many other horses you have 'broken'. There is no A-Z in training. Training methods need to adapt to the horse.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

I'm curious as to what your method is to connect aids on the ground with aids from his back. Is it possible that he doesn't understand your nudging means go faster? What work have you done with him to connect the two?

What makes you think his "nervous" about trotting? 

Without seeing a video, I have no opinion as to whether or not he has balance issues. 

I don't have a problem with doing light work under saddle with three olds, as long as it's a well-developed and conformed three year old.


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## Annnie31 (May 26, 2011)

Its a combination of things most likely. He will feel unbalanced..thats a given. He has your weight on his back, and a walk is fairly easy for him with you on him since you are so small. Since he is still growing, think of him as a wiry teenager that has long legs and big feet and doesnt know what to do with them. If your bareback saddle slips at all it adds to his frustration because he can feel you wobble up there, even if its a tiny little bit, and that wobble will transfer to his legs immediately. Can you borrow a saddle for a few rides until you can get one? Wait it out until then, continue to just walk him about and then when he has a saddle on that is fitting properly, that wont wiggle about ask for a trot. Its good you asked about it as I wouldnt recemend using a bareback pad on a green horse in any case. They arent stable enough and I believe are a bit too dangerous to put on a green horse. Take your time with him, and as it has been said on here before, "Go slow and get fast results."


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## gothicangel69 (Aug 2, 2011)

Thanks for the advice so far. 
I grew up on a ranch, and we have always started our horses out bareback until they were ready for trotting/ cantering (which is why I only want to try a brief trot with him in the pad) and we have never had problems with sore backs/ unsoundness due to it. That doesn't mean it can't happen, and I am taking the concerns into consideration. It does make sense that he may feel a bit insecure trotting bareback. He is my far the clumbsiest 3 yr old I've worked with (but thats why I love him ).
I think he may be nervous to trot with me on his back for a few reasons. The first is that he was trained to pace, and was always taught NOT to trot when someone was driving him- I know being in a saddle is different, but he may associate driving with riding? Just an opinion.
The second is that when I got him he was being reconditioned from a tendon injury and was always told to 'go slow'. It took me a bit to finally get him to trot in the round pen after him being told to take it easy for so long.
He is excellent with voice commands which is what I usually start out with, then teach them to associate leg pressure or smooching with the voice command. He got it on the walk first try, and I know he understands what I am asking as I say 'trot' when applying leg pressure and he knows the word trot very well.
When I tried him out before buying him, with a saddle, he did the same thing when asking to trot. The woman sold him as 'green broke because you could saddle him and walk him around but he had no ground work, so I started from stratch after bringing him home. I think he may have been resisting the trot when I tried him out as he was underweight and probably very tired from not getting the proper nutrition (and if your wondering why I rode him when he was underweight was because he was all tacked up when I arrived, and I didn't realize how underweight he was until all the tack was removed afterwards )
I will have to see about borrowing a saddle to see if that helps at all, and I figured I shoul do lots of trail riding with him to help with balance (I find it has helped build balance with young horses as they are walking over uneven ground, over sticks, etc.)
He is my first 'only mine' horse and I guess I just worry and baby him a bit too much. He is a very sweet and willing boy, and I know that when he doesn't do something I ask, he has a good reason, I only have to figure out why and fix it.


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## Annnie31 (May 26, 2011)

GothicAngel you sound like a very sensible person and pretty in tune with what you need to do. Keep in mind that when he was saddled the first time he was underweight and had likely no ground work. I take it you now have him at a decent weight and now he should be quite different to ride with a saddle when compared to before you owned him. You seem to be doing things right by doing groundwork first etc. so you are on the right track. 
So far as riding bareback goes, so long as you dont do it every day it is actually a fun way to ride and I always encouraged my kids to ride bareback once in a while. However never on a green horse as even the kindest of green horses can have a fright and spook and off you will come. So be careful  . Since you have been raised on a ranch perhaps you can get someone to ride him once or twice for you that has the leg strength to push him into a trot? 
Perhaps if you can do a video of yourself riding the horse for us to see we can help figure out what you need to do to help your horse understand what you are asking him. If he was a pacer he definately will be feeling a bit out of his element trotting...


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Just another idea for you to consider as well. Some green horses that are really resistant to trotting will blow up the first time you push them into it if they aren't _really_ prepared and warmed up adequately. That's my first thought, especially with you describing the pinned ears and irritated demeanor. He may have begun to resent leg aids and that could cause a whole host of other problems.


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## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

Another variable to this is that horses they have to find a way to move properly due to the new added weight of a rider. 

It's like if you had someone on your shoulders, and you tried running. It would be much different than if you didn't have anyone on there. 

Try riding him without the pad. I have always found them to be an added danger due to the fact that they indeed to slip. If you ride bareback, like completely bareback, you will be able to feel the horses movements a lot more and understand how he moves. If you try moving with the horse, instead of just sitting rigid with cues, he might find it easier to get into a trot.


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## gothicangel69 (Aug 2, 2011)

More great suggestions. I am worried about him blowing up when asking for a trot, which is why I didn't push him when he started resisting. I always work him in the round pen before riding to get the 'kinks' out of him before getting on . 
He has gained a considerable amount of weight, I would say he's almost where he should be. 
I don't want him to resent leg commands, so what I was thinking of doing was using just voice commands for a while, then try the legs again and maybe hold off asking for a trot until he's been ridden on the trails for a bit and seems sturdier. What do you guys think? I've never trained a young horse who started out so skinny so this is a bit new to me as I've had to take it really slow and change the way I normally do things a bit as he was a harness horse. He is a very smart boy though. 
After I build some balance with him I might try bringing a crop to tap against my leg when asking for a trot (as when he's a bit resistant in the ring, I just tap my leg with a coil of rope and he responds). I've never had to use a lunge whip on him, nor do I like applying too much leg pressure when starting them so I think the crop might work to get him to start responding to the voice command for trot, then when he's consistant and ready I can switch it to leg pressure and voice. 
As I'll be taking him on the trails, I'll have to get a saddle. I only ride bareback in the arena so if he does toss me, he has no where to go. I'm concerned about getting a saddle though as he's still growing as I'm afraid he will outgrow it by next year if one of the boarders fits good, then I can use that, but I'm not sure they will seeing as everyone else here has quarter horses. Only one way to find out I guess! 
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## gothicangel69 (Aug 2, 2011)

Oh, and my pad is great- doesn't slip at all . 
That is why I love bareback as well is because you can feel the horse moving underneath you, and its a relaxing motion when you move with the horse.
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## Prinella (Jul 12, 2011)

How is he when it comes to picking up energy in the walk? Can you get an energetic walk as well as a plod? The way I've always taught babies was by walking and increasing pressure so they speed up once they're comfortable with the extra energy push forward again until they fall naturally into the trot.
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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

gothicangel69 said:


> The first is that he was trained to pace, and was always taught NOT to trot when someone was driving him-


I think this might part of your problem. 

He is confused and frustrated.


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## Annnie31 (May 26, 2011)

*Please dont ride him bareback because he is a green horse* and if for example he does spook and you come off, you will have taught him it is the easy way to dump a rider. In other words it will teach him how to get you off easy and believe me they learn the things you dont want them to the fastest.

Some things I have picked up from your last post:
1. I dont like to use leg pressure because I dont want him to resent leg commands:
Your horse needs to understand and be comfortable with leg cues..however you sound nervous to use legs because you are afraid he may blow so you definately need to get someone who has been there, done that, to ride him for you and get him by any potential resistance.
2. Your say your horse is at a great weight after being very underweight.
:Thin horses are very low energy horses, so when a horse puts weight back on and receives the proper nutrition they almost become a whole new energy and personality so now that he is fed properly and has more energy he may not be the sweet little guy you rode that first day. He may still have a sweet personality but he will have much much more energy. Perhaps another reason for you to get some help with him.
Do you have a trainer in your barn that can assess him, see what he needs for additional groundwork, and perhaps even give you some instruction as well as help you out? You said this is your first horse that you actually have owned but you have broke several out? Do your parents ride? Im just trying to get some idea as to who you have around you for support etc.


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## gothicangel69 (Aug 2, 2011)

Its not that I don't like using leg pressure, I just don't want to give him a boot or kick to make him respond. Sorry if my last post was misleading. The reason I was reluctant to push him into trotting was that I didn't want him blowing up while I was in the pad. I have no problem if he does it while in saddle (I'm pretty good at sitting bucking\rearing horses ) but did not want to challenge by balance too much that day. 
He has gotten much more energy since I've brought him home, and can be high strung at times, but he is still a sweetheart, just with a lot of energy (hence the lunging before I ride). He reminds me of a very hyper, but nice child. Lol
There are no trainers at the barn. Its just a low key barn for people to board their horses. Once I get his basics down, I plan to move him to a barn with a trainer to get help with more advanced skills, depending on what I plan to do with him when he gets older. 
My parents don't ride anymore, and never did any of the training on the horses anyways. We had a friend who did that, and I helped when I got older. I've trained 10 youngsters, one with barn sourness, 2 buckers, 1 abuse case who was head shy, reared, and bucked, and transitioned quite a few from English to western.
I by no means know all there is to know (and never will) which is why I love to get other peoples perspectives on things. That is what helps us learn. 
I am looking at a nice looking aussie saddle that a friend has, so hopefully it will fit him so I can get out on the trails. 
I will see what I can do about getting a video of how he acts. Usually when I am there everyone is busy working their horses, or the BO is busy in the house. 
Oh, and I can get him to speed up his walk a bit before he starts getting agitated. If he's reluctant to trot due to the pacing training, then I'll have to use lots of encouragement and rewards, If its a balance issue, then I'll have to take my time and do lots of trails (which I plan to do anyways). Hope I can get that video cause that will help me understand what's going through his head. 
I am reluctant on most trainers around here as they like to use lots of discipline and my style is more of 'make what's right easy, and what's wrong hard'.
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## MysticL (Sep 5, 2011)

Im no professional but perhaps, just perhaps, when you ask him to trot and he resists and you back down in case he blows up it teaches him that when he resists you back down. Even more so if he was taught NOT to trot when being driven. 

It can be hard to unteach something once it has been taught. Perhaps he is a little confused which then causes him frustration. If it was me, i would make sure I had him in an enclosed area to avoid any dangerous situations (i say that because my horse is also starting out and before our fences were up in the arena it was almost scary in case she took off). And I would use a saddle simply because it puts your legs in the right place to give those leg commands and gives you that extra seating and weight in your seat when asking for these responses. You will only know if someone will lend you one if you ask  

Good luck, im sure with time and patience and perhaps some help from someone on the ground you will get things right. an external, professional opinion and critique can be very helpful. That's what im doing now with my mare, I cant do it alone - i need someone to push us both in the right direction and tell me from a distance what i am doing right and wrong.


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## jrcci (Apr 28, 2011)

i broke a 6 year old bare back. u had someone else ride a horse infront of me and the six yeare old would follow. i would say trot and kiss to him and give him a squeeze and he now will pick up a trot on his own. it might not work for your horse too but just a suggestion. good luck!


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## MysticL (Sep 5, 2011)

Sorry I posted while you were busy writing! You sound like you have the right attitude. I think it's important to remember that every horse is different and will test you in different ways. Somewhere along the way you are going to find something that works really well for you and him  

get that saddle! trail riding is also great for building muscle if you have nice hills to work up - he will want to work faster up the hills and it might just help him learn!


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## gothicangel69 (Aug 2, 2011)

I only tried getting him to trot three times and then decided to stop until I can figure out what's going on- I definately don't want him to learn that I back down when he resists as that's an awful habit to break and I could tell that something was bugging him or making him nervous. 
I do find tagging along with another horse sometimes helps- can't believe I never thought of that (slaps head). I usually use that method for barn sour horses and it works great, but that's a good point in using it for the trot, especially if he thinks he's not supposed to and is confused.
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## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

Considering by your posts that he was thin, and had to gain proper weight, horses also gain a lot of muscle when it comes to being broke. From what I have learned, it is best to kind of take it easy on their bodies in the beginning so as they can gain that muscle.


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## gothicangel69 (Aug 2, 2011)

I tried out a bunch of different saddles today and for the life of me could not find one that fit him (they were either to narrow, or two wide and rested on his withers- tried 7 and 71/2 gullet size). The BO had an australian saddle and that fit perfectly! So now I'm on the market for an aussie saddle (the westerns were just NOT looking right).

I also think I may have found the problem- not sure. I had a friend watch me and him last night (she's not very horsie, but was able to better describe how me is acting). I think he may have a bad association with the bit (i have him in a D- snaffle) due to his past racing career (i'm not saying he was abused, as he's to sweet natured for that, but I think he may associate it with lots of hard work. He has always been a little hard to bridle (not awful, just resisting) and I do find that he gets irritated with the bit in his mouth. I have been asking for the trot at the end of the session, and I think by that time he is just fed up, which is why he pins his ears, etc.
The longer we worked yesterday, the more irritated he got and was playing with the bit alot. (oh, and I did get a brief trot from him yesterday when I asked for it at the beginning of the session with no problem). I do not want to but a harsher bit in his mouth, as he's still young, and obviously doesn't like even a mild snaffle.
I was thinking about trying one of those bitless bridles, or a hackamore (not one with leverage) to eliminate the possibility of a bad bit association (or if thats not the problem it will rule out one more thing).
Oh, and his teeth were just done, so its not because of them.
I was going to ask to use the BO's hackamore bridle to see if it helped, but it has a lot of leverage to it, and I'm definately not putting that on a young horse.
I have never re-trained a pacer, so this is a slightly new experience as he has already had a lot of training, just not the kind I'm looking for:lol:. I have definately had to modify my techniques quite a bit for this boy.


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## Prinella (Jul 12, 2011)

In relation to the bit try a simple rope halter on him. It's how all our babies and rescues are started/restarted. 

We have an ex trail horse who does the same thing refuses to trot in a bridle, he had horrendous teeth when we got him, to the point it was an effort to get near his head. In a rope halter he canters around happily over jumps with kids.


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## Jumpehunter (Jul 29, 2011)

maura said:


> I'm curious as to what your method is to connect aids on the ground with aids from his back. Is it possible that he doesn't understand your nudging means go faster? What work have you done with him to connect the two?
> 
> What makes you think his "nervous" about trotting?
> 
> ...


i agree with this along with the balance issue. Have somebody lunge him or you lunge him and have somebody sit on him. when the person lunging asks for a trot then you squeeze him at the same time. repeating this with a lot of praise should engrain into his mind that when you squeeze i trot which equals praise. okay i like this!!!

also work with coordination exercise. look up Linda Tellington Jones. she does a lot of work with uncoordinated horse and i have personally seen the results. i know a few things but not enough to teach and explain myself.


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