# Ground frozen and my gelding is lame on hind hoofs.



## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

Update he can hardly walk this morning looks like he stayed next to hay feeder all night lots of poop around him. Legs are now stockedup but no heat got him to walk over to water tank. From how much water he sucked down id guess he hadnt had a drink for a while. Took temp its normal hes eating and drinking i have the farrier coming at noon today so i"ll see what he thinks. I also put a call into vet the one i had before retired so not sure how good new one is. Hes not wanting to move at all just wants to stay put near hay feeder.Really dont know whats up because hes eating drinking and not acting sick. Just dead lame on both hind legs.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

While this is atypical, could he have foundered behind? Is he standing with his front feet way under himself to take weight off the rears? Does he have a racing pulse in the artery that feeds the foot?


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

My first thought is hips. You must be in the midwest? It was 70 at midnight on Saturday and it rained all night friday and all day saturday by 9 am Sunday it was in the 30s by Sunday night it was in the 20s. Our ground is all frozen lumpy mud and I am worried about my girl running about in that and twisting something.

I would get a vet out. With the ground the way it is, it is so easy for them to seriously hurt themselves.


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

Farrier just left yes there was a pounding pulse in both hind legs farrier thinks for some reason he foundering. Was very reactive to hoof testers. Have vet coming to take Xrays later today as she was booked with calls. Farrier helped me get him into the barn where he is bedded deeply in shaving. Has his hay and water close together so has to do little walking. He also pulled his shoes off while he was here. Farrier also thought he could have abcesses brewing also that would be better then founder.Will know more after vet comes and does Xray on him will update then for now all i can do is wait.


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## Royal Pine Buck (May 28, 2011)

if he has just shoes behind and shoes AND pads on the fronts, the issue could just be the hard frozen rutted ground. that stuff if heck to walk on for ME let alone a thin soled horse that is prone to bruising. even if he is normally fine on the hinds in normal conditions that frozen ground especially if rutted is sharp!

Hope all is well and it is only hood bruising and no foundering!


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Do they normally stock up with foundering? What is this horse fed?


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

There are typically two reasons a horse will not move much as the OP described. One is founder.. and everything she said pointed to that being the issue. The other is Tying Up. 

The description was a bi-lateral problem (horse did not want to move either hind foot) so it is unlikely a stone bruise on one foot, and with shoes on behind the hard lumpy ground should not be as much of a factor or so much of a factor that the horse won't move. A bi-lateral issue points to founder or tying up or a very very severe back problem. 

With the pounding pulse in the hind fetlock.. I would guess it is founder. 

I wish you all the luck on this. Please keep us updated when the vet comes out. I hope it is NOT founder but I suspect it is.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Abcesses arent that common in shod horses especially if they have pads on but anything is possible where horses are concerned.
If he's been standing in one place for a long time then that could cause the legs to stock up due to poor circulation
Chills can cause founder/laminitis and can aggravate an existing pre-disposition or case thats been slight enough to go unnoticed. Keeping his legs warm with wraps would help as this will promote circulation. He needs to be stabled on a deep bed of shavings, your vet can blood test to rule out any blood sugar/insulin abnormalities.


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

I have no clue if stockingup is part of foundering. All he gets for feed is hay thats grass and timothy mix. And a 1/2 pound of oats once a day. Farrier thought the stockingup was do to him not moving much. Farrier didnt see bruising so i dont know what to think guess if it just happened it might not be visable yet.


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## Royal Pine Buck (May 28, 2011)

spirit88 said:


> I have no clue if stockingup is part of foundering. All he gets for feed is hay thats grass and timothy mix. And a 1/2 pound of oats once a day. Farrier thought the stockingup was do to him not moving much. Farrier didnt see bruising so i dont know what to think guess if it just happened it might not be visable yet.


OP: by the time you see a bruise( unless it is on a white foot) it is old.

is your horse overweight? (increased risk of founder)

my horse had shoes on the fronts and when the ground became frozen and rutted we had to put pads along with his regular shoes on all four.

however,it is always better to be safe than sorry and treat this like a founder case. although I truly hope that isn't the case 


jaydee: according to the OP the horse has just shoes on the hinds (pads and shoes are on the fronts).

Horses CAN get abscesses and bruises even with shoes on. once the 
ground gets hard and rutted it doesn't matter if the horse is shod if the hard rutted ground is poking a tender spot that the shoe isn't covering.

(last year my horse developed a stone bruise that turned into an abscess in his hind even though he had shoes on all four hoofs)


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

I doubt this is stone bruising on both hind feet at the same time severe enough to make the horse not want to walk. 

Why are you feeding oats? When you said on a scale of 1 to 10 he was a 6 does that mean his weight? The body scale only goes to 9 so that would put him pretty overweight at which feeding oats is not good. Too much added sugars.


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## Royal Pine Buck (May 28, 2011)

Royal Pine Buck said:


> OP: by the time you see a bruise( unless it is on a white foot) it is old.
> 
> is your horse overweight? (increased risk of founder)
> 
> ...


p.S Digital Pulse does NOT= founder. Digital Pulse= Inflammation or soreness. My horse had a digital pulse with bruising and abscess.


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## Royal Pine Buck (May 28, 2011)

sorry, I didn't want to add another post to the end of this. I was trying to edit my already existing post above. *embarassed*


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

poppy1356 the scale of being a 6 was for lameness not weight. Hes a body score of 4.5 so no he not over weight. And yes hes has foundered there was some rotation on both hinds. Will post more later have to much to do right now have a dog just home from surgery and now my horse. Iam very very busy at the moment.Will give more detail in am. Thank you everyone for the post so far iam just in over whelmed with whats going on.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Did the vet give any idea why he foundered? I'm very curious since this is the hinds and not the fronts. 

Hope he heals up nicely.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Well, I called it and am very sorry to have been right. 

As I said.. it is atypical to founder behind and assuming he pulls through this you will need to try to find out why. Once a horse founders he is prone to do it again especially if there is an underlying medical situation that needs to be treated. 

It could also be the feed (mold spores, blister beetles etc.)


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

Well when the vet came both hind hoofs were quite hot to the touch. Like i said there is rotation on both hoofs not bad but its there. Having to ice his feet several times a day plus keep him deeply bedded in shavings.As to the cause vet really didnt know she looked at the hay i feed and said that shouldnt be the cause. She thought possibly the oats iam feeding could be the problem but that is just a shot in the dark. Hes on bute twice a day 2grams each time plus farrier has to come back to do his feet but vet needs to be here too. Not sure how this will all turnout vet thinks he should pull through. But also said it he could go down hill in a big hurry she also wants me to keep a close eye on the front feet too. Hes doing a little better this AM not as painfull but those hoofs are still on the hot side so already soaked in ice water. Vet will be back later today shes thinking hes possibly IR. He was very over weight earlier this year and i had to work the crap right out of him to get him trimmed down.Hopefully we will find out why but for now hes on limited hay and no grain vet said weight wise hes a bit thin. But said better thin then to fat and if he loses more it wont be the end of the world. But right now my goal is to get those feet cooled down so i need to get out again to soak those hoofs.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

IR is certainly possible.. as is Cushing's if he is really an easy keeper. 

Your Vet sounds knowledgeable and I wish you the absolute best outcome in this. Keep the ice going.. (some used to stand the horse in a pond with a muddy bottom). Hay only and if the hay is not very nutrient rich that is even better. 

I am so sorry you and your horse are going through this.


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

Vet just left shes very concerned about those hind hoofs theres still very hot and iv been icing him every hour on the hour. Barrowed some soaking boots so hes standing with those on with ice and cold water. Vet was going to take more Xrays but had to leave had a emergency call. So will be back this eveing to take more Xrays said she wont charge me a farm call for todays visits. Now he wanting to lay down more so thats also a huge worry vet gave him iv pain meds when she was here. He was very painfull and not wanting to stay standing. Hes standing up now not sure how long that will last. Will find more out later with new set of Xrays vets worried that coffen bone is rotatting more. So were in serous need of some jingles here. This is going the wrong way right now.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

You and the vet need to figure out what is causing it. If it's getting worse after the oats have been pulled there might be something still triggering it.


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

The vet is she had me stop feeding current hay. And replace it with diffrent hay neighbors have just plain grass hay so got a few bales from them. Sending my hay to be tested to find out what up with that. I hope its not my hay cuasing this i have a barn full. Shes also going to run a full blood panel to see if theres anything there causing problems.All i know is were already up to 600 dollars in vet bills and counting.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Good, you have a good vet that is covering all the bases. It could be the hay, if it happens to be high in sugar. You can soak your hay to get excess sugars out too.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Again, I am so very sorry. 

Founder is just the worst thing. I know lots have horses where they manage it after the horse has had a bout.. but it is still just so awful and I am so very sorry you are dealing with this. 

I truly am heartsick for you and your horse and I have sent a request to the "Man Upstairs" to help you out....


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Sorry to hear that he does indeed have some form of laminitis but it sounds as if you have a good vet who's covering all the options and not taking any chances.
Afraid the bills do add up but the initial ones are higher and will reduce a lot once you have a diagnosis and a treatment regime that hopefully will focus more on management and less on medication once he's stabilised


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

Heres another update vet was back late evening did another set of Xrays as suspected more rotation. Vet advised me to soak his hay an hour before feeding so thats what iam doing. Hoofs still on the hot side spent all night soaking in ice water every hour on the hour for 15 to 20 minutes. Hes a bit cooler hoof wise but not enough to stop icing his hoofs. Vet will be back late morning to check on him shes afaid those coffen bones could punch through the sole. Not sure hes going to pull through this or not right now iam just too darn tired to worry about. He is standing this morning so guess thats good but hes not comfortable on those feet. Vet said to give 3 grams of bute in the mornings because he is so painfull. Started him on ucler gaurd too stressed horse equals ulcers id say hes pretty stressed right now.Iam stressed myself cant hardly eat my stomach is just in a knot. Well need to get almost time to soak those hot hoofs again.No results on the blood work yet should have them here tomorrow.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

spirit88 said:


> Heres another update vet was back late evening did another set of Xrays as suspected more rotation. Vet advised me to soak his hay an hour before feeding so thats what iam doing. Hoofs still on the hot side spent all night soaking in ice water every hour on the hour for 15 to 20 minutes. Hes a bit cooler hoof wise but not enough to stop icing his hoofs. Vet will be back late morning to check on him shes afaid those coffen bones could punch through the sole. Not sure hes going to pull through this or not right now iam just too darn tired to worry about. He is standing this morning so guess thats good but hes not comfortable on those feet. Vet said to give 3 grams of bute in the mornings because he is so painfull. Started him on ucler gaurd too stressed horse equals ulcers id say hes pretty stressed right now.Iam stressed myself cant hardly eat my stomach is just in a knot. Well need to get almost time to soak those hot hoofs again.No results on the blood work yet should have them here tomorrow.


 I'm a great believer in working with vets & farriers in laminitis cases so I'm not going to argue with what your vet is telling you to do re. the ice cold water treatment but recent studies have shown that this old style method can actually aggravate the problem. I'm attaching one link but I would suggest you do some searches yourself on google and evaluate.
The UK website Laminitis Trust has a lot of info worth looking at but each case can have different needs and I think you have to be prepared to question everything.
If it helps my oldest mare suffered a really severe attack of diet related laminitis some years ago after being fed a sweet mix for a really short time - it was winter and she was fit and in work. She made a full recovery - took a while to get there but is now sound enough - has been for 6 years - to ride on hard ground barefoot and has never had a repeat attack.
Handouts - Laminitis - White Barn Equine Clinic Ltd
Index page for Laminitis Trust information


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

Jaydee Thanks for the info vet was back out and we have stopped the iceing. Vet decided the iceing wasnt really helping now. She gave him some stuff to help open up the bloodvessels dont recall what it is. Hes still not out of the woods yet on this still has alot of heat in those hoofs. Problem is we dont know whats causing this so until blood work comes back its all a guess.Hes a grade 3 maybe closer to a 4 so its not good at all.Right now hes back down and has been for a while maybe only stands up for an hour at a time. Vet is doing all she can and going above and beyond for my horse she hasnt charged me a farm call for the last 3 visits. I know she coming from a distance too. Will be back again today to check on him. Iv been reseaching this on and off all night so i know what iam dealing with.


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## SMMJessee (Nov 11, 2012)

I have not read all the comments so im not dure if this has been brought up.

I have an old mule that will slip on our lippery lumoy ground and i am keeping him in our indoor arena....could you by chance do the same?? it gives thim more room to walk as need and the cold only makes injurys worse.

best of luck 
megan


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

spirit88 said:


> Jaydee Thanks for the info vet was back out and we have stopped the iceing. Vet decided the iceing wasnt really helping now. She gave him some stuff to help open up the bloodvessels dont recall what it is. Hes still not out of the woods yet on this still has alot of heat in those hoofs. Problem is we dont know whats causing this so until blood work comes back its all a guess.Hes a grade 3 maybe closer to a 4 so its not good at all.Right now hes back down and has been for a while maybe only stands up for an hour at a time. Vet is doing all she can and going above and beyond for my horse she hasnt charged me a farm call for the last 3 visits. I know she coming from a distance too. Will be back again today to check on him. Iv been reseaching this on and off all night so i know what iam dealing with.


 Lying down at this stage isnt a bad thing as its removing his weight from the downward pressure already forcing the pedal/coffin bone down. Just be sure he has hay and water he can reach, maybe soak some of the complete feed pellets that are mollasses free and specifically aimed at horses with IRS problems as he needs to eat to keep his metabolism healthy
Keeping his legs warm helps circulation - the Back on Track wraps that are held on with velcro are really good but polo wraps with a liner will do if you are OK with bandaging - not too tight though - just enough that they dont fall down. 
You can pad his feet to help support the sole/frog and cushion them, diaper pads or foam (check out styrofoam) cut to size held on with vetwrap or tape, this will make weight bearing easier for him. Make sure his hooves are really clean and you change the padding regularly as the downside of wrapping is that you create a lovely breeding ground for bacterial and fungal infections but the benefit outweighs the risk which you can manage
The last post was also really good advice - far better for him to start his walking around in a soft indoor where its also warm
Please dont expect recovery to happen quickly and get disheartened when it doesnt because this is a long haul thing
Hope the blood tests are optimistic


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

Jaydee Thanks soooo much when vet was here yesterday she helped me wrap his feet with styrofoam. Vet was here at 7pm last night thats when we did the hoofs. I did wrap his legs last night it got pretty cold. Had to put on his blanket last night aso he was shaking pretty bad. I dont have a indoor arena so that isnt an option i did take him for a short walk this morning. He had a heck of a time kept wanting to go down doesnt like the hard ground. So walked him around in the barn hes still pretty crippled up. Should be hearing from vet here any time now. His hay and water are right near him doesnt have to move to reach it. Since this has started he looks like he lost some weight he eating but not real great. Hes not really liking the soaked hay but does finally eat it until we have the results on his blood . Hay needs to be soaked. Iam in this for the long haul vet told me it would be slow to go.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

I just have to say I am happy to hear of an owner doing what needs to be done. There are a few horses on property here that are overweight and no matter what we say or how many articles we post in the barn about the dangers of laminitis and founder the madness continues.

It's refreshing to see an owner taking care of their animals and working with a vet. Unfortunately sometimes the good owners that do everything correct have things that happen for no apparent reason. It sucks. I hope for you that your horse pulls through.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Poppy is so right. As they say s**t happens to the best. I certainly never expected the sweet feed that was sold as 'sparkle without fizz' & non heating to send my mare into a full blown laminitis attack especially at the speed it did.
Your vet sounds to be really good - some bad ones about who dont keep up with new research and also too much crap advice from people who arent really qualified thats not had any real clinical research put into it from places that sound to be really knowledgeable and look impressive the way they get presented. Its easy to get fooled by them
He will need extra blankets right now - if he has IRS they seem to feel the cold more and always need a bit extra help but while he's not moving much and his circulation is poor he's doing nothing to help stay warm either so thats going to compound things
I wouldnt be too concerned with any exercise while his pedal bones are where they are and so much inflammation. leave him on a really deep bed of shavings and allow him to decide how much he feels able to move around for the time being. Sometimes they know whats best for themselves and you just have to help them through that phase which you are. My mare barely stood up for 3 or 4 days even on the pain meds and at one point we had a drip in her as she was getting dehydrated as she wouldn't eat or drink. I think I had less faith in her recovering than my vet or farrier to the extent that I went out and bought another horse - which I still have plus a few more!!!! I dont recommend that BTW


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

Finally heard from the vet blood work came back fine so we still have no anwser for why hes foundering. She wants to take more blood and run the test again just too be sure. Thanks poppy and jaydee iam the kind who goes the extra mile for my horses iv learned over the years a fat horse isnt a healthy horse. Asked vet about walking him she said to just let him be hes way too painfull for forced exercise. Hes bedded in 10 inchs of shaving plus a bale of straw over that. Have both water buckets right down near where he lays. He is drinking good both five gallon buckets were empty this AM. All i know is i wish i knew what caused this founder. Hes down alot though almost every time iam out to check him hes down. Vet will be back around 3 today will change the styrofoam hoof wraps. Did his hoofs while he was down yesterday works better for all involved. My horses are in my back yard so i have control on what gets done and when. So my boy is getting the best care i can provide for him right now.I know some people who have really fat horses who do nothing about it they just continue to feed them too much. Worst part is those people dont have any trouble so go figure.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

Would say that as you have recently had rain that he has an abscess brewing.

Hopefully your farrier will find it.


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

Tnavas said:


> Would say that as you have recently had rain that he has an abscess brewing.
> 
> Hopefully your farrier will find it.


Oh please, do tell how this causes abscesses? Just had one on my horse too, first time for me. Anyway, Spirit88, I am sending tons of Jingles your way!!!! Keep us posted, give lots of kisses for us too!


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

It is very rare to founder behind only - usually the horse will founder in front first.

If the problem stems from higher up as in a slip or twist or tying up then their would not be a a strong pulse in the feet.

Jaydee - If only it were that simple - everyone would have their horses shod and there would be no more abscesses! Shod horses do suffer from an abscess in the foot as easily and as frequently as those that are unshod. The OP's horse has pads on the front feet - not the back.

nvr2many - I once asked my vet this when he remarked he had dealt with quite a few during the past couple of days, we were staniding in my paddock with my very lame horse in the pouring rain! The recent history of heavy rain is most likely the reason the horse could have an abscess brewing in both hind feet. Wet weather means very soft horn and grit etc can easily get into the feet. Sometimes there is already a small amount of inflamation that is barely noticeable and the horse appears sound but once the rain soaks the feet the pressure builds up. The winter before last my horse had three feet with an abscesses. All at the same time. She too did not want to move. 

The reason we poultice a foot for an abscess is to keep the horn soft to encourage the pus to drain downwards through the sole rather than to travel upwards to the coronary band where it is harder to keep clean and heal.. 

A cheap effective poultice boot should you ever need oone


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

This is not abcesses the horse was Xrayed hes foundered in both hind feet read entire post. The vet has be very involved with this coffen bones have rotated down wards its all on Xray. So soaking isnt going to do a thing for him and they can founder on hind feet not typical but does happen. The ground here is no longer wet its frozen solid so his feet arent soft.Thanks though Tnavas The horse is under vets care. And just to be clear i know how to soak feet been there done that lots of times. Thank you Nrv2many.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

So sorry to hear that he has foundered - I so hope you find the cause and are able to help him recover.


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

Vet was here again last night guess early evening she is going to draw more blood to run the test again. But decided to wait till monday as nothing will be done over the weekend with it. Not seeing much improvement still very painfull and spending alot of time lying down. Vet says be patient hard to be when he hurts so bad. He did nicker to me this morning for his feed. I re wraped his hoofs with new styrofoam this am that does seem to help. been checking his front feet for the pounding pulse they seem ok so far. Farrier will be coming out to trim him.Vet wants to be here with Xrays in hand so he does the trim properly to help my horse. Not sure how that will go horse doesnt want to stand long let alone on three legs. He wont even pickup a back foot i do the wrapping of his feet while hes down. Thanks Tnavas. I even talked to vet about putting him down she said give him more time shes sure he will recover. Oh she took more Xrays to make sure no more rotation had occured thank goodness its the same as last time.


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## Shropshirerosie (Jan 24, 2012)

I've been following this thread, I just wanted to add my best wishes. You are doing everything right - so it's just a waiting and hoping time now. Best wishes for him.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Your farrier should be able to trim him while he's laying down. That would be easiest for everyone. 

At least the rotation has stopped. I'm really hoping he makes a full recovery.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Hope the latest post from you means that things are settling down and he will be on the uphill climb now - even though its likely to be slow
So many things can be at the root of the problem but your vet sounds wonderful


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

The weekend proved difficult at best he coliced on saturday late night i checked him at 12am and he was colicy. Had vet out just too be sure did the oil and some pain meds and some other stuff. He pulled through in about and hour but wasnt a cheap deal when vet comes out a 1:30am for a sick horse. So i once again didnt get much sleep had to keep checking on him. Then sunday he decided to make life more interesting again hes foundered on his fronts now. Vet figures the blood work that was first run wasnt right in its readings. So she drew more blood already this morning shes sure hes IR why it didnt show up on first test she doesnt know. I think signs of founder was there saturday but i missed it. Hes rotated a little on the fronts and his hoofs were hot but managed to get them cooled off. So my poor boy is sure having a tuff time hes holding his own this morning. Much to the vets surprize he was standing up but thats only for short periods then hes back down. Good thing i had a good amount of money saved for emergencys. Oh he does have a name its casper. Farrier will be here friday along with the vet thats the day both could be here at the same time.


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

OMG! I am so sorry to hear this new news. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your boy!


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Poor Casper, not what I wanted to hear. Doesnt help his case that colic can cause laminitis too so he's had a double whammy.
The blood tests when they are in pain in early stages more likely give a high false positive than a negative as all the bodies natural responses to stress and pain go on hyperdrive
Has the vet considered maybe kidney or liver disease as a cause?
I feel so sorry for you. Hope things improve


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

Thank you Nvr2many and jaydee vets running test to check liver and kidney for dease she really doesnt think thats the cause. Hes been on his feet more today then he has for over 3 or 4 days. But hes standing rocked way back on his hindquarters and does a lot of shifting around.Not sure hes really improved still very painfull on those feet and now all four. All i know is my saving account for this stuff is down a bit from a week ago.Hopefully this latest blood test will give us some much needed anwsers. My vet says she going to consult with a really good vet from the university on my horses case. Says maybe shes missing something here. All i can do now is take it one day at a time and hope things turn around here.Vet will be coming around 2pm to see how he is doing says she not charging me farm calls. Says she will be going by here any way so not out of her way. I do see that casper is very stressed out and i see the pain in his eyes i feel so horrible for him. Every time i go out i give him hugs and tell him how sorry iam for whats happening to him. I spent most of last night sitting in his stall with him did that again today for a while. He just puts his big head near me and breathes his hot breath on me.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

(((((HUGS)))))
Poor Casper, he's lucky to have you for a mum with all the care you are giving him. It makes you feel so helpless when things go so wrong and you can't tell him that you are doing the best you can.

Hope he improves soon.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

This is so sad.. so hard.. 

I was expecting him to follow through and founder in front. The colic.. probably from the stress and not drinking enough water. Has anyone thought to check his urine for abnormalities? Blood should tell all.. but it might be something to ask. 

I would ask if he were mine.. but honestly you are doing more than I would.

I wish you and Casper the very best.


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

Elana Theres just a glimer of hope right now vet changed his pain meds to previcox bute didnt seem to be helping enough. The previcox is working hes been on his feet now for almost three hours. Vet wasnt sure it would help but it is. I cant give up on him just yet i did save almost 4000 for emergys. Yes iam going past what i said id spend on a horse but hes my heart horse. Hes drinking good 15 gallons a day or more he has more intrest in whats going on around him. So these are things i look at plus iam not putting my familys financial well being at risk. This money iam spending on him is just for the horses not coming out of our familys account for bills. Should have results on blood some time tomorrow. I worked hard too put this money away for emergys took a long time but i figure i can start saving again after this is over with.Casper is now moving around just a bit more so thats also a little more of a glimmer of hope. Thank you everyone for you support through caspers foundering problems. Will update after vet leaves later today for now hes hanging in there.


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

Well, hang in there and keep us posted. Hugs to Casper!


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Op- where are you located if you don't mind me asking? I have a friend in Wisconsin that has a horse that foundered a few months back but is still battling issues. If you are close I would like to see if I could refer your vet to her.


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

Poppy1356 Iam in western mn close to the noth dekota border dont think my vet would go to wisconsin. An update vet came and was glad to see he wasnt nearly as painfull. She said to give him the option of going out or staying in so opened up the stall and west barn door. He hobbled his way out to stand in the sun stood by his pasture mate on other side of fence and scratched withers with each other. His whole attitude changed he sooo much brighter now. Still have a long way to go but looks just a bit better at this time. Hes a sorry sight to see but hes happy to be out vet thinks this should do him wonders. So time will tell as will the results of blood work tomorrow.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Ah darn I was hoping I could send some good people her way. You're closer to me than her. 

Good to hear he's doing better even after his setback. Hope he continues to improve.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Just to add - my mare has Previcox now when her arthritis is troubling her and its amazing how well it works on such a low dose. The naproxin was not doing much good and also gave her ulcers - not happened with the Previcox so hope this is the turning point for you
I so admire that you've got that emergency fund - so many people dont think of things like that


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

jaydee said:


> Just to add - my mare has Previcox now when her arthritis is troubling her and its amazing how well it works on such a low dose. The naproxin was not doing much good and also gave her ulcers - not happened with the Previcox so hope this is the turning point for you
> I so admire that you've got that emergency fund - so many people dont think of things like that


Iv learned a valuable lesson in having emergency funds for my horses when one got sick with lyme dease. That really drained our savings account when that was said and done we were 1,800 dollars poorer. So yeah iv ever since started putting money away just for my horses.And i NEVER use this money for anything else either.Well heard back from vet she had the results of his test hes seriously IR thats why we been on this roller coaster ride. Plus he also cushings no kidney or liver isssues though. As far as how hes doing hes having a ok day today pretty lame and was down this AM. At least he was smart enough to go into his stall to lay down. So now i need info on what the heck to feed him as far as grain. Vet says he needs to put back on some weight after hes walking better. Hes down to a 3.5 on the body score for now she said wont hurt him to be skinny. Oviously i dont want him this skinny all the time he looks like heck. Right now all hes getting is soaked hay and some soaked beet pulp with no molasses. Hay wise hes getting 15lbs a day beet pulp hes getting 3lbs dry weight. Thats split into two feeding both hay and beet pulp. He was on a senior feed. But vet said to cut that out she thought maybe it was the cause of his foundering. That was before these test results at least now i know whats going on with him.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Well I've been feeding my girl as if she is cushings and laminitic just to be on the safe side. I can tell you no rice bran, no grain whatsoever. beet pulp and alfalfa for weight.

I highly recommend Feedxl.com to figure out what to feed. You check the diseases box and it will highlight things in red that you shouldn't feed. Very helpful and it ensures you are feeding a balanced diet.

What I have found to work is alfalfa pellets since I can't get alfalfa hay with about 2 oz of wheat germ oil per day. Walkinthewalk can help you so much more, she has delt with all of this and has done so much research.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

This is a link to a UK site that gives a lot of info on feedstuffs - they do tons of research and then 'approve' feeds.
About the Laminitis Trust Horse Feed Approval Mark
There are lots of complete feeds out there right now that are specifically for horses with metabolic issues so you can check them out and compare contents to the info in this link
I have fed my mare sugar beet (non molassed) for years now with no trouble, she does struggle to keep 'good' weight since she got it - though she was never fat, underworked or out at grass 24/7 before
I add a few hay stretcher pellets or non molassed chop to it and some Sentinel senior pelleted feed. She's what I describe as 'high geared' - very forward going and 'fizzy' though not at all spooky - too busy going forwards to notice things!!!! I've read negative things about soya but I've added oil and its in a lot of feeds including the Sentinel and its never affected her - she has never had an attack since the original one 7 years ago but will always be IR
I also feed Quiessence (magnesium & chromium supplement) which was suggested by my vet and since she's been on that she seems to hold weight better and not develop abnormal fat deposits as she was doing before
Drugs like pergolide are making life easier for Cushings horses but thats something you will need to discuss with your vet


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

Vet will be here later today she said something about starting him on pergolide. Thanks so much Jaydee and poppy1356. So i can feed him alfalfa i didnt have a clue thought one wouldnt want to feed alfalfa to a foundered horse. I"ll will look into both those sites for feeding recomendations. From what vet says i dont want him to gain weight yet its easier on him being thin. I have him blanketed so it hide how horrid he looks blanket was off yesterday too warm out for it. Hes spending alot of time down today so guess hes not feeling so great again.Right now he laying in the sun vet did say it would be a rough go yet. It is looking alot more hopefull though. Poppy1356 would walkinthewalk mind if i Pmed them?For now iam going to look at the sites iv been given to search.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Good for you Spirit88 on all of this. 

Ask your vet about the alfalfa too (your vet seems very good). 

I recall the Farrier and vet will both be there Friday? I hope that together they can help him be more comfortable.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Alfalfa is low in sugars but where it gets you into trouble is if you have too easy of an easy keeper that blows up on it. But in smaller amounts if the horse doesn't gain too much weight it would be good.

I'm sure she wouldn't mind answering your questions, she helped me tons when my horse came up with laminitis this summer. 

You have a wonderful vet and I would make sure you keep her, wish there were more like her.


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

Thanks poppy1356 i"ll pm walkinthewalk later today after vet comes. Elana yes vet and farrier will be here friday. Hopefully between the two of them they can get him so he doesnt hurt so much. Will update friday after vet and farrier leave. I have no plans of every getting rid of this vet shes just AWSOME to work with.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

Jayydee - I've heard and read alot of negative stuff about soy - it is knwn to cause metabolic problems in humans and could possibly be one of the causes of the metabolic problems we are now seeing in horses.

Massey University in NZ are in the process of doing research on the metabolic problems
http://masseybusiness.eu.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_egH1qPOLbDCTUxv

Greetings!

The Equine Health and Nutrition Team at Massey University is working on a project that focuses on improving the health and management of horses and ponies ridden at Pony Clubs in New Zealand. 

We would like to investigate the causes of certain nutrition / management related diseases occurring in pleasure riding horses and ponies; and through the knowledge we gain, we intend to develop strategies to prevent the occurrence of these diseases. We believe our study will help improve the ‘quality of life’ for our equine companions.
As the area coordinator for the Waikato region, could you please forward our *INVITATION* to all riding members (or their parents) at Pony Clubs within the area and encourage their participation in our online survey on NZPCA Equine Health and Management.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Hehe jaydee knows I hate soy for that exact reason 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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