# How harsh is a Kimberwick Bit?!?!



## Buckcherry

I have my horse in a french link bit right now and he seems to hate it he chews on it constantly, throws his head and will pull his head down like he's trying to avoid the bit. He didnt do this with a regular snaffle, but it was to small thats why I got the french link (which i thought he would like more). 
My question is I have a kimberwick which I used on my old horse but I'm wondering how harsh of a bit is it? 
Also do you have to use two reins with it or do you just use one?
and do you have to use the chain?
I've never been very informed about bits so any information would help thanks
This is the kinberwick I have
horse.com 143181 Jointed Uxeter Kimberwick Bit 5 1/2 inch


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## riccil0ve

Yes, you'd have to use the chain. A bit is only as harsh as the rider, but a kimberwick is a leverage bit and is much easier to be harsh with. If your horse goes fine in a regular jointed snaffle, I would just get a bigger jointed snaffle. You can find decent ones for a decent price everywhere.


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## Tymer

I literally just read an article about this. How convenient. A Kimberwicke only uses one rein. On the top hole, it is just a snaffle. On the bottom hole it is a very mild curb. I'm not sure if you have to use the chain, but I would think you would.
If he liked the single joint, I would go back to that. Some horses simply do not like the lack of tongue relief that the french link gives.


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## Silvera

Generally speaking a bit is only as harsh as the hands that hold the reins. If you have soft hands then the bit isn't harsh. If you use your hands to balance yourself or are always pulling then it is harsh. You can use just one set of reins on this bit and depending on how much leverage you want will depend on where you attach them to the bit. As for the chain I'm not sure if it is needed or not, every time I have ever used that type of bit I have used it (as far as I can recall) so I don't know if you can get away with not having it.

The reason your horse may not like the french link as apposed to the snaffle is because it uses different pressure points on the mouth. It uses pressure on the bars alone and doesn't hit the roof of the mouth the same as the plain snaffle. It really depends on your horse which type of mouth piece they will like, my horse like the french link style with a roller, my mom's horse likes the single break in the bit and doesn't like the double break.

Hope that helps.


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## gottatrot

If your horse goes fine in a snaffle and the Kimberwicke is the bit you already have, simply take the chain off, put your reins through the first hole on the dee and your bit becomes very similar to a snaffle. It rides a little differently in the mouth since the cheek piece of the bridle attachs to the upper ring on the bit. 
Used with the chain, the Kimberwicke is a mild leverage bit. If you put the reins in the second hole down, there is a small amount of leverage (less than a short-shanked Pelham). It is not severe unless you adjust the chain tightly and/or ride in such a way that the chain is constantly engaged.


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## Five Furlongs

If your horse stops with the snaffle I wouldnt change to the kimberwick. I use a french link on the flat and a kimberwick when jumping. This is only because my horse gets very strong when jumping. When she was a lesson horse they used a kimberwick on her all the time and it made her mouth hard because people would pull on it the whole time. I do not think that you would do this but I am just saying it can be a strong bit depending on how you use it. try different kinds of snaffle bits first. There are lots of different kinds and materials that you could try out!


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## justjump

I don't think it's as harsh as a correction.. My friend uses one and her horse doesn't mind. I use a correction on mine because he doesn't bridle up with the twisted wire unless I pull on him hard, which I don't like to do at home, and especially not at a show.

I guess it all just depends on the kind of rider your are. But yes, always use a chain and one reign with a kimberwick!


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## MIEventer

I don't like the Kimberwick - and I think it's a gadget for the rider, not the horse. A quick fix bit, as I think of it. 

Here's some information:

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-tack-equipment/bit-information-snaffle-english-type-bits-36522/


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## gottatrot

Eventer, I would love to hear what you dislike so much about the Kimberwicke. Not to sabotage the post, but I have yet to find a suitable alternative in some situations.
I think ideally all horses should go in a snaffle. That being said, I have found that many hot horses who will go fine in a snaffle in the arena or a sedate trail ride will have difficulty being held back when they are out running in a group of excited horses. So what alternative is there besides a curb/pelham (which have much more leverage) or a harsher mouthpiece on a snaffle (which runs the risk of cutting a horse's mouth)? I find the Kimberwicke an acceptable "between" bit. I ride in mine with a fairly loose chain so it doesn't engage until the reins are pulled back on. Since it has a broken mouthpiece, it works like a snaffle and can be ridden in with light contact until the curb action is needed. My mare who needs the Kimberwicke is very light and anyone would say she has a soft mouth. When she is very hot she requires a slight amount of leverage to get her attention. I think many riders who have good hands would find the Kimberwicke a useful bit.


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## MIEventer

Don't get me wrong - I use a 3 Ring Elevator Bit when I Fox Hunt, I need a bit that is a "Quick Fix" for that particular situation because of the high static atmosphere - hounds, horns, galloping in large groups, jumps - the 3 Ring gives me that extra "omph" needed to keep Nelson in line and to keep me from spending my ride trying to get him to slow down.

That is the only time a 3 Ring gets put in his mouth - other than that, he goes in French Links.

As an everyday use - no. Like I said, bits like that are a quick fix. If you need it for a particular situation, then yes - but for everyday riding and training, I disagree.

I see many lesson horses at my barn in that blasted bit, and it's there for the rider, not the horse. Which I understand because the BO needs to keep her students safe - but no where is it teaching the horse. 

If your horse is rushing or bolting while jumping - that's not a bit issue, that's a whole other story. My question - is why is the OP considering a Kimberwick if their horse goes just find in a Snaffle?


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## Cat

I find the kimberwicke a very useful bit for my haflinger. When we are in a controlled environment I can ride him bridleless because he will work completely off of seat and voice aids. He does fine in a snaffle as well, but he is not a fan of a single jointed mouth piece much at all and gets moody. French link is a little better but not much. I have found he just does not like the jointed type mouth pieces. Maybe this is the OPs horse's problem? If that is the case I would look for a low or medium port instead of the jointed mouth piece. Maybe try borrowing one before ordering it to make sure that it does work. In the years trying to find what make's Toby happy I have done lots of tack exchanges and bit borrowing before finally finding something we were both happy with. I'm one who went from a "have to work all horses either bitless or in snaffles to be the most humane" to "use what works best for that horse/rider combo." 

Now he does excellent in his kimberwicke. We have a low port and mouth on it and he is very happy in it. The small amount of curb on it is minimal compared to a short-shanked colt bit or pelham but it is just enough for when he gets a bit strong when riding in a group or tries his occasional dive for the grass out on the trail. With good hands and the right horse - this bit can be a good choice.

I know some prefer a pelham instead of a kimberwicke, but the thing is - how many people are really proficient in using a double bridle? It takes a while to get to that point and most of your low-level riders or basic pleasure trail riders just are not to that level. A kimberwicke is an alternative that gives you a bit more than a snaffle, but not as much as an actual curb. I would rather see someone using a kimberwicke than totally messing up the cues with a pelham because they can't keep the double reins straight.


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## gottatrot

Ah, OK I like your answer. When you said "quick fix," I thought you meant it was a way to avoid training or like it was cheating. I agree, it is not for beginners or anyone who leans on a horse's mouth, since then the chain would be constantly engaged. I also should say I've seen horses get hard mouthed on a Kimberwicke when it is used improperly. But it is a solution when your horse gets strong in a field of horses. 
As for the OP, I suggested using the Kimberwicke without the chain since she does not currently have a snaffle that fits her horse. If she buys a nice new snaffle that fits, that would be ideal. But she could ride with the chainless Kimberwicke and it's really not much different from a snaffle. I have a friend who rides in one since she's too lazy to buy a new snaffle.


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## gottatrot

I meant to say the above post as a reply to Eventer, but what Cat said was great too. Use whatever works best for your horse, and ride with good hands no matter what you use.


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## MIEventer

My Husbands horse, needs the Low Port due to how his palat is shaped, and the bit that works very well with him, is the Myler Low Port.

It's still a snaffle, and it is still a 3 piece:

Dover Saddlery | Myler Low Port Dee Bit MB 04 .

Or you can get the one with the hooks, so it can work with a bit of leverage, without the "harshness"

But these are only suggestions. 

Again - I think we need to know why the OP wants to venture to the Kimberwick.


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## maura

MIE covered a lot of the points pretty well already, but I what I personally dislike about Kimberwickes is that once you make the chain or no chain, and which slot the rein goes on decisions, the bit has no flexibility. You're always engaging the leverage action whether you want to or not, so there's no way to reward the horse for giving to the bit. It's very common to see horses ridden in a Kimberwicke to overflex and go behind the bit for exactly that reason. 

Riding in a leverage bit with two reins, such as a pelham or a 3 ring, gives you the flexibility to engage the leverage effect only when you need it, and to ride entirely off of the snaffle when the horse is responding well. So my recommendation would be if you think you need a Kimberwicke, ride in a pelham or a 3 ring or any other leverage bit the can be ridden with both a snaffle and a curb rein; you have a much better chance of teaching the horse how to respond to your aids correctly. The Kimberwicke has a much better chance of teaching the horse to evade the bit entirely. 

If your horse's issue is the shape of his palate or the fit of the snaffle, the recommendation for a Myler is a good one as well.

ETA: There's a good reason why they're not a legal bit in dressage, and highly discouraged for hunters. (I don't think they're absolutely prohibited, but I doubt you get pinned using one anywhere but a local show.) I believe they're only an accepted bit in AQHA shows. Someone please correct or add to that if you have more current info than mine.


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## tinyliny

Doesn't the Kimberwick have a shallow port mullen mouth mouthpiece? One piece, right? Snaffle had two or three. Some horses HATE the broken mouth piece and need the straigt bar or mullen mouth type bit. Could that be a factor,OP?


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## equiniphile

If your horse is avoiding a french link, the idea is not to go harsher. look for a bit with more tongue relief and see how he goes.


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## Erin_And_Jasper

my horse loves the kimberwicke. i guess he has a low pallette bc i've tried single joint snaffles and snaffles with rollers in the middle and double jointed snaffles. she slings his head in all of them. with the kimberwicke he goes right in to frame and doesnt have his head up like a giraffe.


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## MIEventer

You can get Low Port Bits, without having to turn to a Kimberwick





























Sorry if the pictures turn out big........If they do, I'll have to correct that...


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## gottatrot

You have to understand there are two very different types of Kimberwicke's. One has a broken mouthpiece and does not use palate pressure. It breaks in the center and only uses lip/tongue/bar pressure when the chain is not engaged. Like a regular snaffle. In this type it is possible to give cues without using leverage action. Even the leverage action only involves the chin and a very small amount of poll pressure.
The second type of Kimberwicke has a solid ported mouthpiece. This bit does not work like a snaffle and is either "off" or "on" just like a curb bit. It is basically a very short-shanked curb. It works by pressure on the roof of the mouth, under the chin, and poll. This type of Kimberwicke does not give any opportunity for subtle cues.
The first type of Kimberwicke I like, the second I dislike very much. The only way I would like the second bit is if you were doing Western type riding with a loose rein and only used the bit as a backup for cues. It is not good for English riding with contact. I suppose if a person wanted to use it as a very mild curb for English, they could put in a small snaffle bridoon and ride with two reins. It would be easier to just use a short-shanked Pelham. 
I am not sure why both bits are called "Kimberwicke," since only one of them is a curb bit and the other is sort of a hybrid.


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## Cat

I'm sorry gottatrot, but I think you are misunderstanding a few things about the bits. First of all - a low port bit is less likely to work off the top of the mouth than a jointed. This is why this bit works for a lot of horses with low pallats. A jointed mouth piece will jab in the roof in some horses when the low port will not - a medium or high port may engage the top of the mouth but not a low. Secondly - when a bit like this will engage is very much dependent on how tight the chain is. If you have it tight, then yes - its an on and off bit and can be very harsh. But if you leave the chain loose enough it will work only after the bit has been pulled back a certain distance adding plenty of room for a light response before engaging. If its too loose even the low port will work more like a direct-rein snaffle with only very mild pull pressure. 

Then again - I come from a strictly pleasure rider view and do a lot of riding from a loose rein as my horse rides off the seat most of the time. My bit is there just to back up my seat cues.


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## Buckcherry

I was only asking about the kimberwick because it's the only other bit I have lying around because I used it on a TB i used to have. 

I have used a snaffle and he did not tilt his head and chew like he does with the french link. BUt the snaffle was too small so thats Why I got the french link thinking most horses like them better. snaffles are pretty cheap so I might just try going back to that. 

I definatly do not want a harsher bit, thats why I was asking about the kimberwick because I didnt know. He really doesn't like a lot of pressure on the bit with the snaffle or the french link so I try to ride with a loose rein when he's not trying to go faster. 

With the french link he seems really aggrevated, and unattentive when I'm riding because he's constantly chewing and just trying to get away from it. So I definatly going to try something different. 

Thanks for the information everyone, I will be honest I can be heavy handed sometimes, not meaning to and it's something Im working on to correct so I will probably not use the kimberwick.


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## gottatrot

Buckcherry, sounds like you have it all figured out. Definitely use a snaffle if your horse goes well in it.



Cat said:


> I'm sorry gottatrot, but I think you are misunderstanding a few things about the bits. First of all - a low port bit is less likely to work off the top of the mouth than a jointed.
> I come from a strictly pleasure rider view and do a lot of riding from a loose rein as my horse rides off the seat most of the time. My bit is there just to back up my seat cues.


I agree with you here, Cat. If your port on your Kimberwicke is so low that it does not touch the palate and you ride with a loose chain, then whenever the chain is not engaged your Kimberwicke is essentially a mullen mouth snaffle and even more mild than a jointed snaffle. 
In that case you could even ride with light contact, as long as the chain was not engaged and have no fear of being hard on your horse's mouth. 
If you ride off your seat and with a loose rein as you say, you could even use a higher ported one and still be using a much milder bit than someone who uses a regular curb. 
I think the problem is when people ride a Kimberwicke with the curb action AS IF it were a snaffle. This use is probably why it is not encouraged in disciplines that require riding on contact.


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## Tymer

Buckcherry said:


> I was only asking about the kimberwick because it's the only other bit I have lying around because I used it on a TB i used to have.
> 
> I have used a snaffle and he did not tilt his head and chew like he does with the french link. BUt the snaffle was too small so thats Why I got the french link thinking most horses like them better. snaffles are pretty cheap so I might just try going back to that.
> 
> I definatly do not want a harsher bit, thats why I was asking about the kimberwick because I didnt know. He really doesn't like a lot of pressure on the bit with the snaffle or the french link so I try to ride with a loose rein when he's not trying to go faster.
> 
> With the french link he seems really aggrevated, and unattentive when I'm riding because he's constantly chewing and just trying to get away from it. So I definatly going to try something different.
> 
> Thanks for the information everyone, I will be honest I can be heavy handed sometimes, not meaning to and it's something Im working on to correct so I will probably not use the kimberwick.


 If you have a long time before you can buy a snaffle you can *I THINK* just use your Kimberwicke on the higher ring. Basically makes it a snaffle.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong!


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