# Still think her pasterns are too weak to breed?



## westonsma (May 19, 2009)

So, for all of you that said she had weak pasterns, I'm going to post the picture here, and probably start a new thread with it since it's been so long. Here's a picture of Pepper's pasterns on concrete, a few wks after her first trim by our farrier.

Here's your link to the thread.

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeding/so-she-breed-worthy-53966/

And here's your photo of her pasterns, on flat surface.



Still think they are weak?


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## AfterParty (Jun 4, 2010)

I dont know much on breeding , but to me they do look pretty long .


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## westonsma (May 19, 2009)

*bump*


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

The length concerns me, especially in a horse doing hardwork. She's got a decent angle, but upright isn't a whole lot better then to much slope. She'll probably hold up better then a horse with a more severe slope (tendon and ligament strain), but I'd still be concerned about pasterns that long.

Fine a very short pasterned stud and pray :lol:


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

I resisted posting, but after reading your referenced posts about what a good cow horse she is, I'll go ahead and give a little history and my 2 cents.

Years ago our lead mare, Angel, got comments that she was 1) too long backed to make a good cow horse and 2) low heeled/thin soled and would need to always have shoes (she always looks like her toes are a bit too long).

She turned out to be a laid back, do anything, go anywhere, 'cowy' horse that is a great penner and has been barefoot for 12+ years and never lame a day. Her daughter has the same disposition/cow sense and is being used as a roper, and her young grand daughter appears to have inherited the cow traits, too. Now, seeing three generations, folks are asking if we would consider breeding Angel again before she gets too much older (she is 16yrs).

So, my 2 cents...

From your post...



> This is my husband's go-to horse. We had her in Montana for 6 months, and she did better on the land with the footing and lack thereof than 95% of the rest of the herd that were raised on the rough grounds.
> 
> She is SUPER cowy, and is being worked on the dummy to learn to "technically" cut, so that we can use her for penning and sorting, and other piddles. I will breakaway on her, and Chris already ropes and drags with her, no questions. (She's just not big enough for bulls...) She has all the heart one could ask for, and a supreme mind. Smart, trainable, and heavily motored


...I wouldn't hesitate to consider breeding her, long pasterns or not. These are the kind of horses that many people wish they had.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

^
Fluke doesn't mean we should assume every slightly talented horse will produce the same.


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## OhSoAppy (Jun 7, 2010)

I don't see long, weak pasterns at all with this mare.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

^ I don't necessarily see weak pasterns, as they're not overly sloped, but a long upright pastern can cause performance issues. A shorter sloped pastern is most desirable for hard work.


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

but how many times out of ten will a long upright pasturn make a horse lame? I've seen hundreds of horses with issues that shouldn't even make then be able to hold a parson on they're back... But they haven't had a lame day in they're life. Personally, if I loved ( and I don't mean mushy love, I mean, she has every single trait I could ever want) then I would breed her. Every horse has a conformation flaw, or a flaw in they're mind, pasturns like that would be the least of my worries when breeding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## westonsma (May 19, 2009)

Maybe I should point out that she wears an 0 shoe? I think that the biggest problem she has possessed is that her feet are too small. Not so much now that she's in athlete-shape, but when she was heavy, she was walking around on stilts looked like. I'll get you all some updated confo shots, and I am probably going to be posting some befores and afters in the critique section. 

I'm a little lost at the fact that she's lost so much weight so quickly, we have upped her feed, and are monitoring her closely to get just that perfect combination of calories and work. She came to us WAAAAAY overweight, and we thought she was a little harder keeper than what she actually turned out to be. She wasn't sweating much during those 15-20mi a day in MT like she does in the hour or two she's rode here in KS with all the heat and humidity! I hate that she's bleaching out, because people still confuse her with a brown or bay horse, even though she is black. Breaks my heart. Her color is what made her stand out in the barn full of sorrels and bays and roans! I can't say anymore, "Mine's the black one!" because there are now like, 30 with the same color now that she's bleached! ; )

I'm going to the barn to prep for our first show, a breast cancer fundraiser, around lunch today, and I will be sure to post some pictures! (Not to mention, I'm roughly 15wks pregnant, and getting to the point where my riding is slowing back down! This may be our only show this year!) Both of the prepping today, and the show on Saturday and Sunday!!


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## westonsma (May 19, 2009)

This is what I think of when I hear you say she has "long pasterns."

http://i47.tinypic.com/vhxkwz.jpg (I do not own this picture and I found it on another public forum)

My mare's pasterns resemble NOTHING similar to this.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> ^
> Fluke doesn't mean we should assume every slightly talented horse will produce the same.


Breeding is about genetics, genetics is science, there are no flukes, only things that we don't understand, and what we don't understand is huge compared to what we do. Breeding is done based on a whole slew of assumptions which may or may not be correct.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Her pastern and hoof angle do not match...the pastern is more angled than the hoof. Now this could be due to needing more off the heel and toe, but if she's already a size 0 shoe, I'm not sure how much more you can take off. 

Is she desperately weak in the pastern, though? No not yet...but the potential IS there; make for darn sure you always keep her feet in good condition...especially keep her toes from getting too long, as that is only going to add more strain on those pasterns.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

^ I thought the pastern should be the same slope as the shoulder, not the hoof? I may well be wrong, but I had never heard of comparing the hoof angle to the pastern angle.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

I believe all three of those angles should be relatively close to being the same...I have my conformation book packed up due to my move, but will dig it out asap when I get moved this weekend.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

wild_spot said:


> ^ I thought the pastern should be the same slope as the shoulder, not the hoof? I may well be wrong, but I had never heard of comparing the hoof angle to the pastern angle.


Hoof angle should always match pastern angle - the problem is when people try to change the angles in beliefs it will make a hardier hoof/pastern.










In my opinion, this mare is a classic example of the last one.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

The bottomside of the pastern should be at a 45degree angle to the ground.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

She still looks pretty "normal" to me.


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## Eastowest (Mar 26, 2009)

_>>>>Fine a very short pasterned stud_ 


NOOOOOOOO! 
Very short pasterns are IMO a bigger issue than somewhat long pasterns, both for soundness and for riding comfort. Plus, breeding short to long does not usually equal medium, which is the most correct-- IMO, the OP would be best off using a stallion with the most correct pasterns if they choose to breed their mare.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

^ :lol:

For the record, I was joking.


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## shesinthebarn (Aug 1, 2009)

I dunno...they are nort perfect, but I don't think they are too bad. If she were mine,(and she was a great performer with awesome breeding) I'd go ahead and breed her to a stud with ideal pasterns.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

They look neither long nor sloped to me. This is why I reserved judgement on them in the first post, because there is such a dramatic change in their appearance now that she is on flat ground. Though it would be much easier for me to get a good idea of how they correlate with the rest of her body with a full body shot, they look good to me.


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## westonsma (May 19, 2009)

Here are some shots I tried to catch while bathing her Friday night. (The last two of her tied outside are from 6wks ago... she looks like a totally different gal, doesn't she?! )


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## westonsma (May 19, 2009)

*bump*


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