# Arlene Magid Write-Up



## Druydess

Some of my lovely Arabian/Horse/Breeder friends told me how wonderful this site is, so I thought I'd come and share some recent news about one of my mares, Solei. Glad to be around great horsepeople!!

My Arabian, La Legacy de Solei, was recently the subject of a Write-up by the incomparable Arabian expert, Arlene Magid. I am so pleased with the wealth of information she has researched on my mare's pedigree. I learned so much more about her breeding, and the amazing stars in her lines. Would love any discussion about the old greats and favorite lines others admire..

I highly recommend Arlene Magid for future write-ups if one is interested in exploring pedigrees and getting great insight.

Solei is currently being trained in Hunter and will probably head toward Country Pleasure.


First show where she placed 3rd in mare Halter in a class of 10:






















































A few pics from today; I just love this mare!

Parkin' out like a pro..









Pasture condition- au natural:


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## WhoaNow

A Very Beautiful Girl!!:wink:


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## MsBHavin

Very pretty, do you have any other conformation shots of her?


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## Druydess

WhoaNow said:


> A Very Beautiful Girl!!:wink:


Thanks WN! She certainly has made me proud!


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## Druydess

MsBHavin said:


> Very pretty, do you have any other conformation shots of her?


I hesitate to put one up as she is growing, butt high, and still "drying out" but, here's one from the show, where she placed 3rd in Halter- though dark, it gives some indication of how she's coming. I would ask people to please keep in mind she is still growthy (Hence no breeding decisions as of yet), and her Right leg is NOT square.. 
Other pics are out of date as she has changed far too much to be accurately represented by them. The previous one is most up to date..


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## MsBHavin

Oh, so she's young then? I'm not sure how to look up pedigrees. When was she foaled?


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## NdAppy

MsBHavin - She is 6... La Legacy De Solei Arabian


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## MsBHavin

NdAppy said:


> MsBHavin - She is 6... La Legacy De Solei Arabian




I wasn't aware arabs grew after 6. Filled out maybe, but not kept growing. Thanks NDAppy!


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## Poco1220

At 6 shouldn't she be finished growing?


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## MsBHavin

Wow her sire is beautiful! Does he do endurance?


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## Cat

I have used the height predictor on the following website in the past even though its geared towards Arabians. It seems to indicate an Arabian should be done with height around 3-4 years or so. 

How Tall Will My Arabian or Half Arabian Foal Horse Grow

Unfortunately it seems that even if there is a bit of growth left after 4 years of age its probably not enough for the mare in question to fully level out. 

But then you never know - nature sometimes has a mind of its own.


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## Poco1220

Cat said:


> I have used the height predictor on the following website in the past even though its geared towards Arabians. It seems to indicate an Arabian should be done with height around 3-4 years or so.
> 
> How Tall Will My Arabian or Half Arabian Foal Horse Grow.
> 
> But then you never know - nature sometimes has a mind of its own.


My thoughts exactly. If she was still 2 or so she might even out but a 6 her conformation is set and she should have stopped growing in the last year or two. 
Unfortunately it seems that even if there is a bit of growth left after 4 years of age its probably not enough for the mare in question to fully level out

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Druydess

MsBHavin said:


> I wasn't aware arabs grew after 6. Filled out maybe, but not kept growing. Thanks NDAppy!


Well, they do- some grow to 8... 
Apparently Solei didn't get the memo there was a cut off..  Her full sister grew til after 7 to reach 15.1. :-o


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## Druydess

Poco1220 said:


> My thoughts exactly. If she was still 2 or so she might even out but a 6 her conformation is set and she should have stopped growing in the last year or two.
> Unfortunately it seems that even if there is a bit of growth left after 4 years of age its probably not enough for the mare in question to fully level out
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Some would assume so. however, this mare has indeed, changed beyond expectation in the last year..
Guess she doesn't do what she should.... :lol:


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## Druydess

Cat said:


> I have used the height predictor on the following website in the past even though its geared towards Arabians. It seems to indicate an Arabian should be done with height around 3-4 years or so.
> 
> How Tall Will My Arabian or Half Arabian Foal Horse Grow
> 
> Unfortunately it seems that even if there is a bit of growth left after 4 years of age its probably not enough for the mare in question to fully level out.
> 
> But then you never know - nature sometimes has a mind of its own.


Apparently so- Nature dies defy the rules, doesn't she..?
Anyone who is inclined may search the internet and find many examples of Arabs growing well into their seventh and eighth years. I just happen to be lucky enough to had had 2 of them so far.. 
I guess I'll see what the new young ones coming will do- that'll be exciting!!


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## 2manyminis

MsBHavin said:


> Wow her sire is beautiful! Does he do endurance?


 He does do endurance, and still competes. Ironically enough, he was once wrote off as an aging, untrained, mediocre breeding stallion and sold very cheaply.

Funny, though, becasue according to Arlene's write up he isn't mediocre, and it takes some good training to make an edurance mount, and if he was "aged", then even more impressive, IMO.


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## Golden Horse

Oh what a pretty

Halter, where id you get it??

Excuse me for asking, I'm not familiar with showing Arabs, but is the head piece of the halter always worn so far back along the neck? Is it part of the whole optical illusion, like the long bridle path?


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## MsBHavin

2manyminis said:


> He does do endurance, and still competes. Ironically enough, he was once wrote off as an aging, untrained, mediocre breeding stallion and sold very cheaply.
> 
> Funny, though, becasue according to Arlene's write up he isn't mediocre, and it takes some good training to make an edurance mount, and if he was "aged", then even more impressive, IMO.


He's a handsome boy! I'd love to have him in my barn being mediocre!


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## Druydess

MsBHavin said:


> He's a handsome boy! I'd love to have him in my barn being mediocre!


Yes, I feel the same about so Solei- so far beyond mediocre..


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## Druydess

Golden Horse said:


> Oh what a pretty
> 
> Halter, where id you get it??
> 
> Excuse me for asking, I'm not familiar with showing Arabs, but is the head piece of the halter always worn so far back along the neck? Is it part of the whole optical illusion, like the long bridle path?


I get a lot of my tack from Egypt- know a few craftsman there..
Don't feel bad- most people don't get the whole Arab thing- but yes, the halter is pretty on her, isn't it?


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## MsBHavin

Do you have any pictures of her Dam? The link is broken and I cant see her picture. I bet she's gorgeous too


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## NdAppy

Golden Horse said:


> ...Excuse me for asking, I'm not familiar with showing Arabs, but is the head piece of the halter always worn so far back along the neck? Is it part of the whole optical illusion, like the long bridle path?


Ditto this part.


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## Druydess

MsBHavin said:


> Do you have any pictures of her Dam? The link is broken and I cant see her picture. I bet she's gorgeous too


What link?
But it wouldn't be much of a help- she doesn't resemble either parent overmuch. Much more a throwback to her Serafix and Ivanhoe lines, at least according to pedigree experts..


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## 2manyminis

MsBHavin said:


> He's a handsome boy! I'd love to have him in my barn being mediocre!


 I guess they considered him mediocre because he wasn't a super duper pretty color like a purple liver chestnut with a spun gold flaxen mane & tail. Nor did he stem from El Khamsa, Crabbett, or Phara bloodlines, which seems to be so popular now, especially mixing them up so that a horse is only a small percentage of what was once the best bloodlines there was, thus diluting the best features.


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## Cat

Druydess said:


> I get a lot of my tack from Egypt- know a few craftsman there..
> Don't feel bad- most people don't get the whole Arab thing- but yes, the halter is pretty on her, isn't it?


Oh no - I bet its going to be hard to get your tack in the future after all that has happened there. Sorry to hear that - the halter is pretty. I've always found Arabian tack enchanting.


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## WhoaNow

Wow Dru, so nice that your beautiful girl is getting so much attention:wink:.
She is lovely, and very deserving of the compliments!
I know you are very proud of her accomplishments.

Good Job!


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## 2manyminis

Surely you must be planning on breeding her soon- be a shame not to, considering her achievements.


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## Druydess

WhoaNow said:


> Wow Dru, so nice that your beautiful girl is getting so much attention:wink:.
> She is lovely, and very deserving of the compliments!
> I know you are very proud of her accomplishments.
> 
> Good Job!


Thanks WN. She has been such a joy. She does garner attention wherever she goes; someone tried to buy her at the show- - but not for sale at any price.
And I've been so fortunate to have Magic as well-- 1st place in Sport Horse in a class of 14! First Show!! I'll have to get some pics of her up next!

Can't wait for my other mares to get here so I can post their particulars..

Thanks!! :wink:


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## Druydess

Cat said:


> Oh no - I bet its going to be hard to get your tack in the future after all that has happened there. Sorry to hear that - the halter is pretty. I've always found Arabian tack enchanting.


Not really- have Egyptian, Jordanian, and Pakistani contacts/ friends; I can pretty much get whatever I ask for or design.. and so reasonable too!
The artistry is just exquisite!


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## 2manyminis

Cat said:


> Oh no - I bet its going to be hard to get your tack in the future after all that has happened there. Sorry to hear that - the halter is pretty. I've always found Arabian tack enchanting.


 Oh, don't worry- Egyptian craftsmen are resourceful, they can find an outlet to make sure that their handiwork can be appreciated by all...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HORSEMANS-HALTER-R.... item45edbf4b3a


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## MsBHavin

In all the time I spent over in the middle east, I don't believe I ever came across a handmade halter that looked like that. I did however find it's twin on Ebay

Cowboy Rope Halter with Lead Rawhide Noseband Orange | eBay


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## WhoaNow

Druydess said:


> Not really- have Egyptian, Jordanian, and Pakistani contacts/ friends; I can pretty much get whatever I ask for or design.. and so reasonable too!
> The artistry is just exquisite!


How Cool! That really is a lovely halter!:wink:


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## WhoaNow

MsBHavin said:


> In all the time I spent over in the middle east, I don't believe I ever came across a handmade halter that looked like that.
> I did however find it's twin on Ebay
> 
> Cowboy Rope Halter with Lead Rawhide Noseband Orange | eBay


These really don't compare to that halter, IMO.
They really aren't even similar,...,:?:


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## Cat

2manyminis said:


> Oh, don't worry- Egyptian craftsmen are resourceful, they can find an outlet to make sure that their handiwork can be appreciated by all...
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HORSEMANS-HALTER-R.... item45edbf4b3a


Oh cool! I wonder if one would look good on my haflinger? I may have to order one, especially since its fine Egyptian craftsmanship. :wink:


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## Druydess

MsBHavin said:


> In all the time I spent over in the middle east, I don't believe I ever came across a handmade halter that looked like that. I did however find it's twin on Ebay
> 
> Cowboy Rope Halter with Lead Rawhide Noseband Orange | eBay


They do make a lot of fairly good copies on ebay- as we all know.. and I'm sure I paid less..and got better quality; it's good to have friends in the business.. 
Though I have gotten some really great authentic Egyptian tack and belly-dancing attire there.. just have to look around..


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## 2manyminis

My dad purchased a stallion from the Shams El Asil stud in Cairo & brought back a bunch of native tack- very unique- and certanly like nothing available here in the US.


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## Druydess

WhoaNow said:


> These really don't compare to that halter, IMO.
> They really aren't even similar,...,:?:


No- they're not, but for some they may do in a pinch- not sure I'd try those on a Halflinger though- probably wouldn't fit the head well..


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## WhoaNow

Druydess said:


> Thanks WN. She has been such a joy.
> She does garner attention wherever she goes; someone tried to buy her at the show- - but not for sale at any price.
> And I've been so fortunate to have Magic as well-- 1st place in Sport Horse in a class of 14! First Show!! I'll have to get some pics of her up next!
> 
> *Can't wait for my other mares to get here so I can post their particulars..*
> 
> Thanks!! :wink:


How many horses do you have?
Are they all as pretty as this girl?
If so, would love to see them also.

Thanks.:wink:


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## MsBHavin

2manyminis said:


> My dad purchased a stallion from the Shams El Asil stud in Cairo & brought back a bunch of native tack- very unique- and certanly like nothing available here in the US.


Their tack quality is indescribable! It was so hard to not come back with a ship full of Arabs, Camels, and their beautiful heavy cotton tack!


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## Golden Horse

I would love to get something pretty like that for Ace


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## MsBHavin

Golden Horse said:


> I would love to get something pretty like that for Ace


Maybe she'll give you the contact information for her importer?


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## Druydess

Golden Horse said:


> I would love to get something pretty like that for Ace


I'm sure he'd look lovely in something like that...


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## Druydess

WhoaNow said:


> How many horses do you have?
> Are they all as pretty as this girl?
> If so, would love to see them also.
> 
> Thanks.:wink:


Well 5 currently- 3 in negotiation and a few surprises to follow.. 

An Echo Magnifficoo daughter; A double Padron mare, and an SCID clear Versace G-Daughter are expected to arrive by fall, hopefully, pending the "details."

The Echo daughter's owner has turned down offers you just couldn't believe.. I am so grateful her owner has chosen me to buy her.. :wink:


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## MsBHavin

sure seems like a ton of horses to be boarding. Have you bought any property?


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## WhoaNow

Druydess said:


> Well 5 currently- 3 in negotiation and a few surprises to follow..
> 
> An Echo Magnifficoo daughter; A double Padron mare, and an SCID clear Versace G-Daughter are expected to arrive by fall, hopefully, pending the "details."
> 
> The Echo daughter's owner has turned down offers you just couldn't believe.. I am so grateful her owner has chosen me to buy her.. :wink:


Nice!! I just read the write up on Solei,..., very nice:wink:
Please post pics of your other horses, I'd love to see them sometime.


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## Druydess

MsBHavin said:


> sure seems like a ton of horses to be boarding. Have you bought any property?


Seems like a personal question, but-
I have property..  So yes, apparently so..
Besides, I have the money..


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## MsBHavin

I personally cannot imagine boarding, what 10(possible) horses and a stallion?


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## WhoaNow

MsBHavin said:


> sure seems like a ton of horses to be boarding. Have you bought any property?





Druydess said:


> Seems like a personal question, but-
> I have property..  So yes, apparently so..
> Besides, I have the money..


Well it helps to have your own acreage,..., and MONEY!! LOL!:wink:


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## Druydess

WhoaNow said:


> Nice!! I just read the write up on Solei,..., very nice:wink:
> Please post pics of your other horses, I'd love to see them sometime.


Thanks- I think Arlene was very thorough.. she's quite a stickler for detail.
I will get together some other pics, but the new ones will come later as we have made no official announcements yet.. :-o

Here's one of Magic and I- first show- It was a hot and sweaty day- First Blue of 2 and she also took 4 second places..

More importantly- she scored 93 in a class of 14.

Magic and I- first Blue - Class of 14- Score of 93:


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## Druydess

MsBHavin said:


> I personally cannot imagine boarding, what 10(possible) horses and a stallion?


LOL- neither can I! 
Hmmm- I never mentioned a stallion.. :-o


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## NdAppy

Was this at an AHA rated show or a fun show?


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## WhoaNow

What a pretty grey! 
Arabians are such beautiful horses.
Of course I'm partial to QH's also,..., I own 2 :wink:


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## Druydess

WhoaNow said:


> What a pretty grey!
> Arabians are such beautiful horses.
> Of course I'm partial to QH's also,..., I own 2 :wink:


I also have a QH I rescued- she's such a doll..


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## Druydess

WhoaNow said:


> What a pretty grey!
> Arabians are such beautiful horses.
> Of course I'm partial to QH's also,..., I own 2 :wink:


I never expected either of them to place at all at their very first show, but they cleaned up- especially Magic, and she earned an amazing number of points to be applied to her record! Now we're preparing for the next show..
Funny thing is, in that class of 14- every horse she beat- was bigger- AND seasoned.. they were serious competition and I am proud she did so well.


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## NdAppy

Druydess said:


> Thanks- I think Arlene was very thorough.. she's quite a stickler for detail.
> I will get together some other pics, but the new ones will come later as we have made no official announcements yet.. :-o
> 
> Here's one of Magic and I- first show- It was a hot and sweaty day- First Blue of 2 and she also took 4 second places..
> 
> More importantly- she scored 93 in a class of 14.
> 
> Magic and I- first Blue - Class of 14- Score of 93:





NdAppy said:


> *Was this at an AHA rated show or a fun show?*


bumping for an answer since you are skipping posts.


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## Druydess

WhoaNow said:


> Well it helps to have your own acreage,..., and MONEY!! LOL!:wink:


I have been blessed and very proud to have worked for all I have myself- such a good feeling, especially in THIS horrible economy. Right now, on the farm we have 2 poor starved rescued Arabians- excellent breeding, and left to fend for themselves.. made me furious to see the shape they were in!!


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## NdAppy

Interesting that you will not answer a simple question such as whether or not the show was a rated AHA show. I am guessing not by your lack of response.


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## Druydess

A very cute photo that illustrates Magic's tractability: here with 7 year old Mary Ann- took one of 4 second place ribbons- this class against adults..

Very serious business- 2nd Place:


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## RisingPhoenix

OK, so you paid Arlene for a pedigree write up on your horse. Good for you!

As an Arab person who "gets it", I have a few questions.

Why do you have her parked out in such a funky manner pulling her head at such a weird angle? It really makes her neck look horrible and you certainly aren't angling her properly to show off the hook and arch. If she's in training, you might want to work on that because that whole picture does not do your mare any justice at all.

You mentioned she's still growing. How much has she grown since she was 4? Without numbers, it's nearly impossible to gauge if she will grow up enough to level out. 

Halter. While nice enough, I find this is the current trend for Arabians, especially if you want to be "authentic" and I'd be willing to bet she'd look great in something like it:
Authentic Arabian Halters| Arabian Horses of Diamond M Arabians

I'm curious as well as the other poster to know whether this show you mentioned was AHA or not. Datasource shows nothing for any of your horses-including your stallion. (Yeah, with access to the DS, it's real easy to pick up additional information.)

What is it you're hoping to accomplish with your breeding program? With all the different lines your horses all have, and the ones you mentioned you're acquiring, it really seems rather diverse. Are you going for a certain discipline? Certain look? 

Good luck in your future endeavors!


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## Druydess

RisingPhoenix said:


> OK, so you paid Arlene for a pedigree write up on your horse. Good for you!
> 
> As an Arab person who "gets it", I have a few questions.
> 
> Why do you have her parked out in such a funky manner pulling her head at such a weird angle? It really makes her neck look horrible and you certainly aren't angling her properly to show off the hook and arch. If she's in training, you might want to work on that because that whole picture does not do your mare any justice at all.
> 
> You mentioned she's still growing. How much has she grown since she was 4? Without numbers, it's nearly impossible to gauge if she will grow up enough to level out.
> 
> Halter. While nice enough, I find this is the current trend for Arabians, especially if you want to be "authentic" and I'd be willing to bet she'd look great in something like it:
> Authentic Arabian Halters| Arabian Horses of Diamond M Arabians
> 
> I'm curious as well as the other poster to know whether this show you mentioned was AHA or not. Datasource shows nothing for any of your horses-including your stallion. (Yeah, with access to the DS, it's real easy to pick up additional information.)
> 
> What is it you're hoping to accomplish with your breeding program? With all the different lines your horses all have, and the ones you mentioned you're acquiring, it really seems rather diverse. Are you going for a certain discipline? Certain look?
> 
> Good luck in your future endeavors!


Thanks for the comments.. I'll take them under advisement..

It's not a Pro pic and wasn't meant to be. She's had 2 weeks of Halter training. You don't have to like the pic. Only I do.  She's not for sale, so I imagine it's fairly irrelevant. If, and, when I breed her, the foal would be retained.. Again- irrelevant to the "public."

Have some nice halters- see previous pic.

As for Datasource- you must be looking in the wrong place- they're all Registered.

I believe the mistake some are making here is that I have ANY obligation to answer ANY questions, especially when delivered in such a confrontational manner. I will not play that game. Period. I will ignore all such comers.
I hope this isn't your usual tone with posters; it's rather cheeky...


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## AlexS

I am not asking with any kind of tone, your daughter is lovely, and looks so very cute. Which show was this at?


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## Druydess

AlexS said:


> I am not asking with any kind of tone, your daughter is lovely, and looks so very cute. Which show was this at?


Thank you, but she is not mine, a friend's girl, learning on Magic, and she was at the Orlando Show.


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## AlexS

She is darling, I adore her little serious face!


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## Druydess

AlexS said:


> She is darling, I adore her little serious face!


She was VERY serious about the the whole thing, and Magic took such good care of her.. Her mother was very proud. I could not have hoped for a better show for them- both first-timers..


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## AlexS

Very cool, congrats!

ETA - I am English, but have lived here for 10 years, I know nothing about Arabs - what is the Orlando show?


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## Druydess

AlexS said:


> Very cool, congrats!
> 
> ETA - I am English, but have lived here for 10 years, I know nothing about Arabs - what is the Orlando show?


Really? Where in England? Have some friends there.. a few were born in England and live in Kells now.. 
Arabian shows are hosted everywhere- Central Florida and Orlando host a number of shows throughout the year, as do other "Clubs." There are a ton of them throughout Florida. I don't know where you live, but you can look up local Arab shows for your area via the net..


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## AlexS

I have lived in PA for 5 years. I was in MI for 5 years before that, but out of the horse loop during that time. 

I grew up in Cheshire, in the north of England. But I was a jumper, and so halter classes are foreign to me no matter what the level.


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## kitten_Val

Poco1220 said:


> At 6 shouldn't she be finished growing?


I'm not sure about Arabs but my paint (coming 7 in Fall) still does. Slowly though (of course). She seems to be very delayed in her development (comparing to my qh that was done by 5 or 6).


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## RisingPhoenix

I think you've misunderstood. By "nothing", I didn't mean they weren't registered, just they do not have any points. If they weren't registered, they wouldn't be in the DataSource.

I also wasn't being confrontational. I'm sorry you took it that way. I was simply asking questions that came to mind because of your pictures and statements. Something that typically happens during discussions. I guess those questions struck a nerve, since you did not answer any of them and, instead, got defensive. I don't even know why you got so defensive, it's not like I didn't ask anything that hasn't been asked of countless other Arab owners, including myself, across the Internet. But, your point has been made, loud and clear: no serious discussions regarding your horses, just fawning over them. Got it.


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## Druydess

kitten_Val said:


> I'm not sure about Arabs but my paint (coming 7 in Fall) still does. Slowly though (of course). She seems to be very delayed in her development (comparing to my qh that was done by 5 or 6).


Arabs are even worse- LOL- very frustrating when you're trying to get their show career going.. one needs LOTS of patience...:wink:

Solei's full sister put on over an inch in height from 6-7, Solei has done the same in the last 6 months..


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## Druydess

RisingPhoenix said:


> I think you've misunderstood. By "nothing", I didn't mean they weren't registered, just they do not have any points. If they weren't registered, they wouldn't be in the DataSource.
> 
> I also wasn't being confrontational. I'm sorry you took it that way. I was simply asking questions that came to mind because of your pictures and statements. Something that typically happens during discussions. I guess those questions struck a nerve, since you did not answer any of them and, instead, got defensive. I don't even know why you got so defensive, it's not like I didn't ask anything that hasn't been asked of countless other Arab owners, including myself, across the Internet. But, your point has been made, loud and clear: no serious discussions regarding your horses, just fawning over them. Got it.


As an owner of Arabs, then you are aware clubs can take up to 60 days to register points. The show was several weeks ago..

As for the rest, I believe this post was about Solei's lines..and her write-up.


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## Faceman

Druydess said:


> What link?
> But it wouldn't be much of a help- she doesn't resemble either parent overmuch. Much more a throwback to her Serafix and Ivanhoe lines, at least according to pedigree experts..


That's too bad. As she is not true to her breeding, she cannot be expected to breed true, so is not suitable as a broodmare, which is a shame. I had a fantastic mare back in the mid 90's that was an anomaly like that. I really wanted to breed her, but as a responsible breeder I knew I couldn't. Bummer, but if you can get her trained and fitted out well enough to compete in AHA shows, perhaps she can have a show career...


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## Druydess

Faceman said:


> That's too bad. As she is not true to her breeding, she cannot be expected to breed true, so is not suitable as a broodmare, which is a shame. I had a fantastic mare back in the mid 90's that was an anomaly like that. I really wanted to breed her, but as a responsible breeder I knew I couldn't. Bummer, but if you can get her trained and fitted out well enough to compete in AHA shows, perhaps she can have a show career...


Fortunately, I have breeding/training experts and top breeders with years of experience with interest in Solei to defer to on this subject..  They have been invaluable with their assessments and support.


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## NdAppy

Many, many stallion owners/breeders will tell mare owners anything they want to hear in order to get more breedings. Just food for thought.


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## WhoaNow

Druydess said:


> Solei's full sister put on over an inch in height from 6-7, Solei has done the same in the last 6 months..


I don't know that much about Arabians, but I have always heard that they are 'late bloomers'. 
I recall when a friend of mine had them, something about their 'knees closing' as 5 year olds and up?
So I had always thought/heard that they continued to grow and change later than other breeds??

Just wondered about this:wink:


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## Alwaysbehind

RisingPhoenix said:


> Halter. While nice enough, I find this is the current trend for Arabians, especially if you want to be "authentic" and I'd be willing to bet she'd look great in something like it:
> Authentic Arabian Halters| Arabian Horses of Diamond M Arabians


Wow, those are nifty. It almost makes me want to get an Arabian. Very neat halters.
They do not put them on with the crown piece way down the neck like shown in the photos here. Which way is correct?


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## Speed Racer

Alwaysbehind said:


> They do not put them on with the crown piece way down the neck like shown in the photos here. Which way is correct?


The photos of the Diamond M horses are the correct way to wear those halters. If you have to pull the crown piece halfway down the neck, the halter simply doesn't fit right.


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## Alwaysbehind

Speed Racer said:


> The photos of the Diamond M horses are the correct way to wear those halters. If you have to pull the crown piece halfway down the neck, the halter simply doesn't fit right.


Oh thanks SR. Since I have never shown Arabians I was not sure. I know you have a long history with the breed.


----------



## Speed Racer

Yes ma'am, 33 years and counting. A lot of that time was spent at A rated and Nationals shows. Mostly as a spectator or work volunteer, but I did my time in the show rings as well. :wink:


----------



## MsBHavin

Speed Racer said:


> Yes ma'am, 33 years and counting. A lot of that time was spent at A rated and Nationals shows. Mostly as a spectator or work volunteer, but I did my time in the show rings as well. :wink:


Do you have a thread with pictures? I'd love to see your arabs at an actual arab show!


----------



## WhoaNow

MsBHavin said:


> Do you have a thread with pictures? I'd love to see your arabs at an actual arab show!


Me too :wink:


----------



## Speed Racer

That was eons ago, unfortunately. I 'only' trail ride/LDR with my horses now, and the horse I primarily showed with passed on 4 years ago. 

I've done a lot of volunteer work at Regionals and Sport Horse Nationals, though.


----------



## MsBHavin

Speed Racer said:


> That was eons ago, unfortunately. I 'only' trail ride/LDR with my horses now, and the horse I primarily showed with passed on 4 years ago.
> 
> I've done a lot of volunteer work at Regionals and Sport Horse Nationals, though.


I'm very sorry to hear about your horse  You've a wealth of knowledge and I'm glad you're on this board to share it!


----------



## Alwaysbehind

SR, maybe times have changed and they now wear their halters hanging part way down their neck like that.


----------



## MsBHavin

Alwaysbehind said:


> SR, maybe times have changed and they now wear their halters hanging part way down their neck like that.


I'm betting if it were tied correctly it would hang right. But I never had my arabs in a rope halter. lol


----------



## Speed Racer

Alwaysbehind said:


> SR, maybe times have changed and they now wear their halters hanging part way down their neck like that.


Hmmm, perhaps. But I volunteered at the Region 15 Regionals last year and the Sport Horse Nationals 2 years before that, and all the horses I saw were wearing their show halters with the crown piece right behind the ears. So unless the fashion has changed drastically in 12 months time, I'm thinking the crown piece right behind the ears is still the going thing. :wink:


----------



## Allison Finch

Speed Racer said:


> That was eons ago, unfortunately. I 'only' trail ride/LDR with my horses now, and the horse I primarily showed with passed on 4 years ago.
> 
> I've done a lot of volunteer work at Regionals and Sport Horse Nationals, though.


 Photos scan well. I'm sure you have had some beauties in your time dealing with them. Sorry about your horse. I know how hard that is. I lost the horse I have in my avatar this last year. Still a huge hole in my heart.


I really appreciate fine arabs and always enjoy looking at them. 
Op, you have a lovely horse. Good luck with her.


----------



## Alwaysbehind

Allison Finch said:


> Photos scan well. I'm sure you have had some beauties in your time dealing with them.


Laugh!

Up until SR got her new camera it was next to impossible to get her to post photos at all.

She is photo scanning challenged. 




MsBHavin said:


> I'm betting if it were tied correctly it would hang right.​




Oh, that could be true. The way I read the OP's post many pages back was that it was correct in those photos and we just did not understand the Arabian look.


​


----------



## Speed Racer

MsBHavin said:


> I'm very sorry to hear about your horse.


Thank you, he was my heart horse. 21 years together, and another 21 wouldn't have been nearly enough time. All of you know what I'm talking about, I'm sure. 

Allison, I'm not even sure where all those pictures are, to be honest. That was 'back in the day' when Polaroids were cutting edge technology!


----------



## Faceman

Druydess said:


> Fortunately, I have breeding/training experts and top breeders with years of experience with interest in Solei to defer to on this subject..  They have been invaluable with their assessments and support.


Glad to see that. A less responsible person would likely breed her just because of her own aesthetic appeal, despite her shortcomings as a potential broodmare. I know from experience how frustrating it can be selecting breeding stock as there are so many variables to consider, but one's long term reputation as a breeder far surpasses any short term gain, so it is always prudent to follow basic breeding principles. Sadly, too many people don't...


----------



## Allison Finch

I know about long gone photos. 
I always rode other people's horses when I was competing at the higher levels. The pro photos went to the owners and I never bothered getting copies of them. When you are young, you never think it will ever end. When it does, you are left with nothing. 

Folks, get those photos!! Don't let them slip through your fingers.


----------



## WhoaNow

Faceman said:


> Glad to see that.
> A less responsible person would likely breed her just because of her own aesthetic appeal, despite her shortcomings as a potential broodmare.
> I know from experience how frustrating it can be selecting breeding stock as there are so many variables to consider,
> but one's long term reputation as a breeder far surpasses any short term gain, so it is always prudent to follow basic breeding principles.
> 
> *Sadly, too many people don't...*


Amen to that statement!:roll:
Breeding irresponsibility TOPS my list of Pet Peeves,..., but of course, 
that is an entirely 'nother topic!

I could go on and on about 'back yard' breeding 'OOPs', but I won't:shock:.


----------



## Speed Racer

Allison Finch said:


> Folks, get those photos!! Don't let them slip through your fingers.


Good advice. Once you don't know where they are, you've lost important memories.


----------



## Allison Finch

And, you've lost the ability to show others what you have done in your life.


----------



## MsBHavin

That's very true, and it's always sad. I found a picture of me on my first horse the other day. Made me happy to have that memory back again


----------



## Golden Horse

Faceman said:


> That's too bad. As she is not true to her breeding, she cannot be expected to breed true, so is not suitable as a broodmare, which is a shame. I had a fantastic mare back in the mid 90's that was an anomaly like that. I really wanted to breed her, but as a responsible breeder I knew I couldn't. Bummer, but if you can get her trained and fitted out well enough to compete in AHA shows, perhaps she can have a show career...


That must be heartbreaking, to have something that you value so much but it is a big risk for breeding her:-(



WhoaNow said:


> I don't know that much about Arabians, but I have always heard that they are 'late bloomers'.
> I recall when a friend of mine had them, something about their 'knees closing' as 5 year olds and up?
> So I had always thought/heard that they continued to grow and change later than other breeds??
> 
> Just wondered about this:wink:


I'd like to know about this one as well, if Arabs are still growing and their knees don't close until they are 5, when do people usually start them? I know Arabs are tough and typically live a long time, so is late backing recommended?


----------



## Speed Racer

The_ earliest_ recommended age to start backing them is 3, but many people wait until they're 4. Part of that is their maturity level, since Arabs tend to mature mentally more slowly than other breeds. 

Casper acted like a baby for quite awhile. Now that he's 13 y/o, he's finally acting like an adult horse. Of course, he's kind of 'speshul' anyway, because Conny at 10 y/o had been fully mentally mature for several years. :wink:

I haven't heard of any Arabs who are still growing past 6 y/o, but they can and do grow up to that point. I know both Conny and Casper grew until that age, although they tended to fill out more past 5 than grew in actual height. The height increase past 5 y/o is negligible, and a horse's conformation tends to be pretty much set by that time.


----------



## Faceman

Speed Racer said:


> The_ earliest_ recommended age to start backing them is 3, but many people wait until they're 4. Part of that is their maturity level, since Arabs tend to mature mentally more slowly than other breeds.
> 
> Casper acted like a baby for quite awhile. Now that he's 13 y/o, he's finally acting like an adult horse. Of course, he's kind of 'speshul' anyway, because Conny at 10 y/o had been fully mentally mature for several years. :wink:
> 
> I haven't heard of any Arabs who are still growing past 6 y/o, but they can and do grow up to that point. I know both Conny and Casper grew until that age, although they tended to fill out more past 5 than grew in actual height. The height increase past 5 y/o is negligible, and a horse's conformation tends to be pretty much set by that time.


I've never raised Arabs, but used them in my Araloosa breeding program. My Araloosas were normally done with their primary growing by 4, but somewhere between 4 and 6 they would put on that "mystery inch" that so many horses do - you know, when you go out to measure them one day and somewhere along the line they added an inch when you weren't looking. I've never had one grow in height over 6, but my experience is limited to Appys and Araloosas...don't know about other breeds.

As far as backing, I normally back mine in the fall of their third year, so they were normally 3 1/2, unless I was otherwise occupied until spring, in which case they sometimes would be 4. I don't really like to wait till they are 4 though - they seem to get a bit more independent and ornery around that age...part of that may simply be due to it being spring...


----------



## Speed Racer

Faceman said:


> I don't really like to wait till they are 4 though - they seem to get a bit more independent and ornery around that age...part of that may simply be due to it being spring...


And part of it may have also have been because you were crossing two of the most intelligent and mischievous breeds on the planet. :wink:


----------



## Faceman

Speed Racer said:


> And part of it may have also have been because you were crossing two of the most intelligent and mischievous breeds on the planet. :wink:


Yeah, there were times when I questioned how prudent it was to cross Appytude with the Arab sense of humor...it makes for arguably the best endurance trail horse there is, but it takes the patience of Job to train them...:lol:


----------



## Golden Horse

Faceman said:


> Yeah, there were times when I questioned how prudent it was to cross Appytude with the Arab sense of humor...it makes for arguably the best endurance trail horse there is, but it takes the patience of Job to train them...:lol:



Having now owned (sort of) both, not sure if Mr G _really_ counts, bless him:lol: I can imagine that an Araloosa has the possibility of being absolutely the best or worst horse that a person could own :lol::lol:


----------



## Alwaysbehind

GH, can you imagine what would happen if they mixed some Haflinger in there? You would have a stubborn smart horse that likes to get into things and escape on a regular basis.


----------



## Golden Horse

Alwaysbehind said:


> GH, can you imagine what would happen if they mixed some Haflinger in there? You would have a stubborn smart horse that likes to get into things and escape on a regular basis.


So you don't think it would be a good idea to take the incredibly pretty, well bred Appy mare I've been offered, take her to Jesse to use my rebreed because Ace didn't take, pray for a filly and breed that back to Alto, for a Hafaraloosa:lol:


----------



## Alwaysbehind

Good for us. We will enjoy the stories of all the fun spotted mayhem it causes.


----------



## Speed Racer

Alwaysbehind said:


> Good for us. We will enjoy the stories of all the fun spotted mayhem it causes.


Perhaps, but GH's descent into alcoholism and madness will be tragic.


----------



## Alwaysbehind

Very valid point, SR. Very valid.


I can just picture cute spotted thing undoing locks and such like no horse before them......


----------



## kitten_Val

Allison Finch said:


> Folks, get those photos!! Don't let them slip through your fingers.


Very very true. I used to have such nice pics (not horsey-related though) of different events... All gone... :-(


----------



## kitten_Val

Faceman said:


> but used them in my Araloosa breeding program.


I almost got one (appy x arab cross) while back when I was looking for my 1st horse. Lovely boy, but I was scared by the BO that appys go blind earlier in life (she had 2 or 3 like that in barn). Now I'd do research first before relying on anyone's words, that time I was 1st time owner and didn't even think about it (relying on others).


----------



## bubba13

Well, Appaloosas do have far more eye problems than the average horse. They say all homozygous (fewspot, snowcap) Apps are nightblind. Strike 1. Then you've got a greatly-increased risk of uveitis, which is the painful inflammation leading to eventual blindness (and sometimes requiring removal of the eye). Strike 2. And _then_ there's the squamous cell carcinoma, which is common in pink-skinned horses, and given that Apps often have mottled skin on the face/eye area, it's not that rare to have the cancer crop up there. Strike 3.

Something to definitely be wary of and keep in mind...


----------



## Alwaysbehind

I have a snowcap and *knock on wood* she is not nightblind. I have the vet check her eyes every year.


----------



## Faceman

Alwaysbehind said:


> I have a snowcap and *knock on wood* she is not nightblind. I have the vet check her eyes every year.


There are those that would argue that. Current theory is that ALL homozygous Appys have night blindness. Now with that being said, night blindness occurs at different levels - some bad, and some not so bad, and it is also possible your snowcap is a false snowcap and not homozygous, which is not that uncommon...


----------



## Druydess

Allison Finch said:


> I really appreciate fine arabs and always enjoy looking at them.
> Op, you have a lovely horse. Good luck with her.


Thanks Allison- I do as well.. 
I count my blessings for her, and my others, every day.. :lol:


----------



## Druydess

Faceman said:


> Glad to see that. A less responsible person would likely breed her just because of her own aesthetic appeal, despite her shortcomings as a potential broodmare. I know from experience how frustrating it can be selecting breeding stock as there are so many variables to consider, but one's long term reputation as a breeder far surpasses any short term gain, so it is always prudent to follow basic breeding principles. Sadly, too many people don't...


I leave whether she is bred in the future or not to the breeding experts who actually see and evaluate her. I put my faith in those qualified to do so.


----------



## kitten_Val

bubba13 said:


> Well, Appaloosas do have far more eye problems than the average horse. They say all homozygous (fewspot, snowcap) Apps are nightblind. Strike 1. Then you've got a greatly-increased risk of uveitis, which is the painful inflammation leading to eventual blindness (and sometimes requiring removal of the eye). Strike 2. And _then_ there's the squamous cell carcinoma, which is common in pink-skinned horses, and given that Apps often have mottled skin on the face/eye area, it's not that rare to have the cancer crop up there. Strike 3.
> 
> Something to definitely be wary of and keep in mind...


Thanks for details! 

I'm not fan of appy coloring (no offense to anyone), so I don't think one will be on my list ever. The only reason I considered the cross was because he got everything from arab (except several white spots on butt).

Yes, yes, color doesn't matter for the good horse, still I'm subjective when it comes to it (although would never buy a horse for the color alone).


----------



## bubba13

kitten_Val said:


> Thanks for details!
> 
> I'm not fan of appy coloring (no offense to anyone), so I don't think one will be on my list ever. The only reason I considered the cross was because he got everything from arab (except several white spots on butt).
> 
> Yes, yes, color doesn't matter for the good horse, still I'm subjective when it comes to it (although would never buy a horse for the color alone).


I used to be neutral on Apps; that was before going to work on the Appaloosa farm. Yeah. Thirty out of thirty bad ones will turn you off the breed, for sure.

I know that there are many good Appaloosas out there, and that these ones were just ruined by bad handling, but there definitely IS something to that Appytude (I tend to think it's less brain than sheer stubbornness!).

Some of the coloration I find obnoxious (I hate the pig eyes that some of them have), but there are others who are stunningly beautiful.

I always thought this guy (half-Arabian!) was marked up neat:










And this other half-Arab is stunning, fat aside:


----------



## MsBHavin

My neighbor has Leopard appys. They're almost identical, always cracks me up to see two wildly spotted butts hanging out side by side


----------



## Druydess

Golden Horse said:


> That must be heartbreaking, to have something that you value so much but it is a big risk for breeding her:-(
> 
> Not at all- the future for her, all the way around, is very bright..
> 
> 
> I'd like to know about this one as well, if Arabs are still growing and their knees don't close until they are 5, when do people usually start them? I know Arabs are tough and typically live a long time, so is late backing recommended?


To that comment:


This was addressed by: 
By Deb Bennett, Ph.D

Just a few points from that article are summarized here: 

• *No horse, of any breed or bloodline, is mature before the age of 5 ½. 
*
• The earliest-maturing horses are small, scrubby, range-bred mares. 
Male horses tend to lag about 6 months behind female herd members kept under the same circumstances. *Good feeding tends to prolong growth and delay maturity. *
*
• No horse is skeletally mature at age 2. *
There are both advantages and disadvantages of starting horses at age 2 or earlier. Unless there is a compelling 
economic reason, I advise waiting to start young horses undersaddle until they are 4. 

• *There is more than one "growth plate". * 
The one growth plate that most people know about is the one "at the knee" (actually, at the bottom of the radiusulna bone just above the knee). Every bone in the skeleton outside the skull contains at least one growth plate. 
Each limb bone has one at the top, one at the bottom, and may have others (on prongs or projections such as the 
tip of the elbow or the third trochanter of the femur). 

• Maturation follows a definite pattern. 
Individual portions of the skeleton become mature when the growth plate nearest them fuses to the bone shaft. 
There is a schedule for this over the horse's body: the lower down in the limbs, the earlier in life the growth plates 
fuse. 

• The last parts of the skeleton to become mature are the vertebrae and teeth. The last teeth erupt in a male horse at age 5 ½ to 6. *The last vertebral growth plates also fuse at about this age, 
or later. 
*
• *The slowest-maturing horses are tall, long-necked individuals. 
Largeness itself tends to delay maturity.*


----------



## Golden Horse

Can I haz??


----------



## bubba13

Ooh, found another half-Arab whose color I absolutely loved:


----------



## bubba13

Golden Horse said:


> Can I haz??


Come on now, don't you already haz one? :lol:
Can't have two. They'd be plotting to overthrow you!


----------



## Golden Horse

Druydess said:


> To that comment:
> 
> 
> This was addressed by:
> By Deb Bennett, Ph.D


I would be interested to read more, do you have a link?? 

What was the focus of the article? As one who is a great proponent of starting horses late it does sound like she is recommending waiting


----------



## Druydess

AlexS said:


> I have lived in PA for 5 years. I was in MI for 5 years before that, but out of the horse loop during that time.
> 
> I grew up in Cheshire, in the north of England. But I was a jumper, and so halter classes are foreign to me no matter what the level.


I lived in PA awhile on assignment- too cold for me..

I have some friends near Ipswich and several in Largs (sp), Scotland. The Scots are just crazy!! But loads of fun.. A couple who are authors live in Kells- she's an amazing, entrancing storyteller- could listen to her speak for hours.

I'm just learning the whole show thing myself.. even Halter. No plans to make Solei a Halter Horse- just wanted to give her some experience in the ring, and she sure worked it well!


----------



## bubba13

Deb Bennett is generally fairly great, but sometimes I feel like she's a little too full of herself and knows that no one will question her expertise. 

I've been watching her video:










Pretty interesting stuff, though her leg-warmers and head....thing do kind of crack me up.


----------



## RisingPhoenix

Golden Horse said:


> Can I haz??


Are you a sucker for punishment, or what? TWO Apps?!? That's like having a broken arm and wishing for a broken leg!:rofl:


----------



## Druydess

Golden Horse said:


> I would be interested to read more, do you have a link??
> 
> What was the focus of the article? As one who is a great proponent of starting horses late it does sound like she is recommending waiting


Of course- an excellent article:

http://www.distanceriding.org/php/articles/health/Function.pdf

Another interesting quote by Deb:
The Arabian breed produces many individuals suitable for riding, while also producing a significant number suitable for flat 
racing. Davenport and other Old Egyptian bloodlines, as well as some of the rarer antique American bloodlines, produce short-coupled horses with round bodies, a good cut of withers and shoulder, arched necks that are not too long or fine, and good bone. The Polish and Crabbet lines also produce significant numbers of horses suitable for riding.

Interestingly, Solei is Crabbet and Polish..  And she lives up to her heritage..

Here's a link to Serafix- of which she has two lines to..
The resemblance is uncanny.. 

*Serafix - Crabbet purebred Arabian stallion


----------



## bubba13

OK, OK, since the subject is still Apps, I can't control myself:










HAVE to post that picture. His color is nothing special, but rarely do you see a horse with conformation that textbook. He was an absolutely stunning stallion. He hadn't been ridden in 13 years and I hopped on his back for a little. Unfortunately, he was too worked up about the mares to really pay attention to me. I did ride him around the arena a few times, and did some stops and turns, but he needed more work that I had time to give. They ended up just giving him away to a retirement home. A waste of a good horse, but it sure beats the alternative.


----------



## NdAppy

Love, love, LOVE that horse bubba!


----------



## bubba13

Druydess said:


> Here's a link to Serafix- of which she has two lines to..
> The resemblance is uncanny..
> 
> *Serafix - Crabbet purebred Arabian stallion


In that both are chestnuts? :think: Must say, I'm not seeing many conformational similarities.


----------



## Druydess

NdAppy said:


> Many, many stallion owners/breeders will tell mare owners anything they want to hear in order to get more breedings. Just food for thought.


Not the ones I know..  They're brutally honest, and the best in the market, which makes it all the more satisfying when they approve MY mares..


----------



## Druydess

bubba13 said:


> In that both are chestnuts? :think: Must say, I'm not seeing many conformational similarities.


I figured you wouldn't.. :lol:


----------



## bubba13

That seems a little rude and condescending, but why don't you enlighten me on the points I'm missing?


----------



## kitten_Val

bubba, they are very cute - no question on that, still I'm just not a fan of spots. :wink: If to choose between 2 identical horses (training and confo-wise) I'd go for the solid sorrel. Not very romantic, huh. Lol! 

But then I don't like paints pattern either still own a very loud one.... :lol:


----------



## bubba13

kitten_Val said:


> bubba, they are very cute - no question on that, still I'm just not a fan of spots. :wink: If to choose between 2 identical horses (training and confo-wise) I'd go for the solid sorrel. Not very romantic, huh. Lol!
> 
> But then I don't like paints pattern either still own a very loud one.... :lol:


You know, I always say that if sorrels were rare (instead of grullos or whatever), they'd be the most popular color. There are few things more beautiful than a bright shiny red horse.


----------



## kitten_Val

bubba13 said:


> OK, OK, since the subject is still Apps, I can't control myself:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HAVE to post that picture. * His color is nothing special*, but rarely do you see a horse with conformation that textbook.


I'd ABSOLUTELY pick his color over any loud one. Plus, yes I like him overall quite a lot.


----------



## kitten_Val

bubba13 said:


> There are few things more beautiful than a bright shiny red horse.


I agree. I haven't seen any other color being truly shiny (like a gold) under the sun.


----------



## Druydess

bubba13 said:


> That seems a little rude and condescending, but why don't you enlighten me on the points I'm missing?


If you begin a post rudely, expect the same..

If you'd like to start your own conformation thread with your horses and pics you have copyrights to, feel free...

If you have a comment on the OP- Solei's Write-up and her associated lineage, that would be nice..


----------



## MsBHavin

Druydess said:


> If you begin a post rudely, expect the same..
> 
> If you'd like to start your own conformation thread with your horses and pics you have copyrights to, feel free...
> 
> If you have a comment on the OP- Solei's Write-up and her associated lineage, that would be nice..



We tried asking questions, you decided to get snide and refuse to answer. What else would you like to talk about?


----------



## kitten_Val

Folks, just a reminder here about the etiquette policy! Please, be respectful to each own opinion!


----------



## Druydess

MsBHavin said:


> We tried asking questions, you decided to get snide and refuse to answer. What else would you like to talk about?


How does one get snide and refuse to answer? You actually have to say something to be snide. 

As to what to talk about? How about the original subject?

Or... find a thread you actually like..


----------



## Druydess

kitten_Val said:


> Folks, just a reminder here about the etiquette policy! Please, be respectful to each own opinion!


Thank you Kitten!


----------



## NdAppy

Druydess said:


> I figured you wouldn't.. :lol:


Please, tell us why you think she looks so much like that stallion. 


From a conformation standpoint she does not...


----------



## Druydess

kitten_Val said:


> I agree. I haven't seen any other color being truly shiny (like a gold) under the sun.


They really are gorgeous, and there are SO many variations in the same horse.. the Serafix gold really comes out on Solei.. it's breathtaking!


----------



## MsBHavin

Druydess said:


> They really are gorgeous, and there are SO many variations in the same horse.. the Serafix gold really comes out on Solei.. it's breathtaking!



So she's the same color.


----------



## Golden Horse

bubba13 said:


> In that both are chestnuts? :think: Must say, I'm not seeing many conformational similarities.


Did someone say that those two were similar, sorry must of missed that comment, but I don't see it, I think I got lost somewhere. The black and white pic seems to be a more 'old fashioned type' sorry if that is a stupid description  He/she appears to have a lot more substance and bone than the little filly, maybe it's just age.



NdAppy said:


> Many, many stallion owners/breeders will tell mare owners anything they want to hear in order to get more breedings. Just food for thought.


You have that one right, I couldn't believe what some stud owners said when I was considering (briefly, due to DH pressure) breeding Big Bert again:shock:


----------



## Poco1220

Agreeing that I see little to no similarities in the two photos. Please enlighten us...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bubba13

Druydess said:


> If you begin a post rudely, expect the same..
> 
> *If you'd like to start your own conformation thread with your horses and pics you have copyrights to, feel free...*
> 
> If you have a comment on the OP- Solei's Write-up and her associated lineage, that would be nice..


I had a comment on the comparison you made between her and a horse in her lineage, which is very much on topic, but you won't address that, so shall we go back to talking about Appaloosas?

Regarding the bolded part, I have, as I very much value outside opinion, from _all_ people. It may not necessarily be expert advice, but anyone has the potential to see things that I may have missed in my own barn-blindness, though I try very hard not to be guilty of that.

Back to the subject at hand,










1/4 Percheron mare


----------



## Speed Racer

As an Arabian owner of many years I don't see a lot of similarities between Serafix and the OP's filly, and I daresay I know a thing or two about _Arabian_ conformation.

My now deceased heart horse was a grandson of Serafix on his sire's side and looked nothing like him, either. He wasn't even chestnut. :wink:


----------



## kitten_Val

Are there paint arabs out there? (I'm not strong in colors and never had a need to research them really).


----------



## MsBHavin

kitten_Val said:


> Are there paint arabs out there? (I'm not strong in colors and never had a need to research them really).


Only when bred to a paint. I dont think it's a color that purebreds carry. I could be wrong though


----------



## Poco1220

I think they carry the sabino gene?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Speed Racer

kitten_Val said:


> Are there paint arabs out there? (I'm not strong in colors and never had a need to research them really).


Any horse considered a Paint Arabian would be a cross, Kitten. 

You may be thinking of maximally expressed sabinos, but they're not actually paint Arabians.


----------



## Druydess

kitten_Val said:


> Are there paint arabs out there? (I'm not strong in colors and never had a need to research them really).


Yes, there are beautiful Arabians that have been crossed with a paint, some nearly purebred after multiple breeding back to the Arabian line. But none actually exist normally in the purebred.


----------



## 2manyminis

Many years ago, my dad leased the Serafix daughter Baronne, and bred her once to El Hilal, and once to Aladdinn. The last foal she carried was by the Bask son, Taask- none of which were junk stallions. Dad made the executive desicion to NOT breed her anymore because the only thing they seemed to get from Serafix was being butt high.


----------



## kitten_Val

Interesting... So what the sabino gene gives then?


----------



## gigem88

Lovely horse, Druydess.


----------



## Speed Racer

Sabino throws white, Kitten.

There's a Khemosabi son, Khartoon Khlassic, who throws a _lot_ of white. His owners supposedly bred him to a mare who threw a filly that looks like a Paint, but is purebred. Here's a YouTube video of her.


----------



## Poco1220

A neighbors purebred dilute sabino arab mare


----------



## MsBHavin

Poco1220 said:


> A neighbors purebred dilute sabino arab mare


Very pretty!


----------



## Druydess

gigem88 said:


> Lovely horse, Druydess.


Thank you Gigem- who's that in your avatar?


----------



## NdAppy

Poco1220 said:


> ....
> A neighbors purebred dilute sabino arab mare


As far as I am aware, there are no dilute genes in purebred Arabians. If the horse is a dilute it is not pure.


----------



## Poco1220

NdAppy said:


> As far as I am aware, there are no dilute genes in purebred Arabians. If the horse is a dilute it is not pure.


Looking into it now. I know the owner and she's an arab breeder. I don't know the mare's registered name though. Ill get more info and get back 


EDIT: 
Okay talked to the owner. She is purebred and can be found on allbreed or datasource. 
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/windsong+fantasy

So maybe she's just sabino and not dilute???


----------



## NdAppy

Awesome Poco. Let me know what you find out.


----------



## Poco1220

Okay talked to the owner. She is purebred and can be found on allbreed or datasource. 
Windsong Fantasy Arabian

So maybe she's just sabino and not dilute???
​


----------



## 2manyminis

That would be my guess- there was Fire An Ice, they called him a palomino, but anyone could tell he was really a flaxen chestnut.


----------



## Poco1220

A little more info on her:

Sire - 
riverfoals
Foals by Pandemonium River

Dam - 
Fantasia Vu, sabino Arabian mare

That's all I got for now lol. Either way she's neat looking!


----------



## MsBHavin

Poco1220 said:


> A little more info on her:
> 
> Sire -
> riverfoals
> Foals by Pandemonium River
> 
> Dam -
> Fantasia Vu, sabino Arabian mare
> 
> That's all I got for now lol. Either way she's neat looking!


is Windsong Arabians now Elements Arabians?


----------



## Poco1220

MsBHavin said:


> is Windsong Arabians now Elements Arabians?


Not sure on that. She just sent me the links quick.


----------



## MacabreMikolaj

Yes, purebred Arabs can be pinto. They carry both sabino and splash. The only reason people thought for decades that they didn't is because it was kept hush hush. You can trace obvious sabino and splash colored Arabs all the way back to the 1800's in Egypt. I've traced virtually every patterned Arab back to Mesaoud, an Egyptian Arab sent to Crabbet Park due to his high white. The white was abhorred in Egypt and the foals were culled or exported, hence such a long period of not seeing the prominent white patterning. This is why you find virtually all sabino and splash Arabs amongst the Crabbet lines, as all beginning Crabbet stock was Egyptian born.

WA Outrageous is a perfectly example of a DIVINE splash Arab, and she is registered purebred:










Arabians cannot be dilute, there are no cream genes in Arabs, period. There are several lines that are SUCH pale chestnut they look to be palomino, but they genetically test negative for cream.

And I stand by the other posters that the OP's horse looks nothing like Serafix. The entire structure is completely different. My Arab mare looks more like Serafix then your mare does. Serafix was classes athletic, well muscled and thick Crabbet Arab. Your mare, while very pretty, resembles nothing of the Crabbet lines. She looks much more like Ivanhoe Tsultan then she does Serafix.


----------



## MsBHavin

Poco1220 said:


> Not sure on that. She just sent me the links quick.


Ah ok


----------



## Poco1220

MacabreMikolaj said:


> ...


Crap! Macabre's on... *dives under the nearest desk* 


((we really need a smiley that is cowering while waving a white flag))


----------



## MacabreMikolaj

LOL, come on now, I thought I was quite nice! I was just answering the general "pinto/dilute" questions. I would be extremely interested to see an Arab someone said was dilute and registered purebred. However, I'd also expect genetic testing before I believed it! :wink:


----------



## Golden Horse

MacabreMikolaj[COLOR=Purple said:


> There are several lines that are SUCH pale chestnut they look to be palomino, but they genetically test negative for cream.
> 
> [/COLOR]


Ooh, which lines, got any pics??


----------



## MacabreMikolaj

I took a look at Windsong Fantasy and it's her rabicano coloring making her look so unusual. She's still a chestnut, but the extensive roaning makes her look almost lilac colored. Very neat!


----------



## Druydess

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Yes, purebred Arabs can be pinto. They carry both sabino and splash. The only reason people thought for decades that they didn't is because it was kept hush hush. You can trace obvious sabino and splash colored Arabs all the way back to the 1800's in Egypt. I've traced virtually every patterned Arab back to Mesaoud, an Egyptian Arab sent to Crabbet Park due to his high white. The white was abhorred in Egypt and the foals were culled or exported, hence such a long period of not seeing the prominent white patterning. This is why you find virtually all sabino and splash Arabs amongst the Crabbet lines, as all beginning Crabbet stock was Egyptian born.
> 
> WA Outrageous is a perfectly example of a DIVINE splash Arab, and she is registered purebred:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arabians cannot be dilute, there are no cream genes in Arabs, period. There are several lines that are SUCH pale chestnut they look to be palomino, but they genetically test negative for cream.
> 
> And I stand by the other posters that the OP's horse looks nothing like Serafix. The entire structure is completely different. My Arab mare looks more like Serafix then your mare does. Serafix was classes athletic, well muscled and thick Crabbet Arab. Your mare, while very pretty, resembles nothing of the Crabbet lines. She looks much more like Ivanhoe Tsultan then she does Serafix.


I have heard the same about the white through the old time breeders and trainers- it was kept "secret."

As far as Solei, I never said she was a carbon copy of Serafix, especially since she is still growing, and NOT a stallion- and I also mentioned her resembling the Ivanhoe line.. These observations come from experts much more versed on pedigree and breeding than I.. so I suppose each to his, or her, own opinion..

Thanks for the comments..


----------



## MacabreMikolaj

Fire And Ice being most notable - I don't know why I said pale, I guess I meant so white in the mane and tail:










He's even double registered palomino and for years they advertised him as palomino, and I think they're FINALLY calling him chestnut realizing it was impossible.

Here is also a photo of his son and owners who haven't got the msg as he's advertised as palomino and blatantly not:


----------



## Poco1220

Thanks, I was curious to know if it was actually rabicano or roaning causing the dilute appearance. 

((MM - what fun would it be if I didn't give you crap!))


----------



## 2manyminis

Golden Horse said:


> Ooh, which lines, got any pics??


Fire An Ice | Arabian Horses, Stallions, Farms, Arabians, for sale - Arabian Horse Network, www.arabhorse.com


----------



## bubba13

Funny that Khartoon Khlassic was brought up RE: color.

Not my horse, but I saw him when he was a few days old and was bemused, as were the attending vet and tech.

His baby pictures:















 
And more recent photos:​ 
​ 


















​ 


























​ 
I looked him up and found a long discussion about his color on another forum. Funny how one colt can cause so much controversy.​ 
Well, he's an Arabian, as if that wasn't obvious from the pictures. A Khartoon Khlassic son.​ 
Daddy is homozygous black, homozygous agouti, and sabino.
Momma is a plain Jane bay Arabian.
Color test for Khoda Khrome (that's his name) shows he is EeAA and negative for silver (and parentage verified).​ 
So you're looking at a bay Arabian above.​


----------



## Golden Horse

Gorgeous, simply stunning color, HAFLINGER color, plain chestnut, that is.:lol:


----------



## Allison Finch

Poco1220 said:


> Crap! Macabre's on... *dives under the nearest desk*
> 
> 
> ((we really need a smiley that is cowering while waving a white flag))


----------



## Poco1220

allison finch said:


>


awesome!!!


----------



## MacabreMikolaj

LMFAO, thanks a lot Allison, why do I have a feeling I'm going to be seeing that a lot? :lol:


----------



## MacabreMikolaj

Whoa, that's messed up bubba. Does anyone have any clue what on earth would have turned his mane and tail white? I understand having the black covered up and being pale, but what the heck is up with the white mane and tail?


----------



## gigem88

Druydess said:


> Thank you Gigem- who's that in your avatar?


That's my son and my Arabian mare!


----------



## Druydess

gigem88 said:


> That's my son and my Arabian mare!


I thought she looked like an Arab!!

Have any other pics of her?


----------



## Chiilaa

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Whoa, that's messed up bubba. Does anyone have any clue what on earth would have turned his mane and tail white? I understand having the black covered up and being pale, but what the heck is up with the white mane and tail?


I am willing to have a guess. Wild bay. Bay foals generally have cream points, and often they will stay pale until the horse is about two years old. So while the colour looks cool, the horse pictured is not in it's adult colour yet. His high stockings are covering the places most likely to see black 

Wild bay can also affect the mane and tail - while I haven't seen it do this much to it, it is possible.

So my guess is that he is a young wild bay. I would love to see adult pics of him


----------



## Katze

Oooooh love Fire and ice, and I seriously thought they came in Palomino **** Macabre set me straight though *:hide:*:lol:.

Druydess very pretty mare, I see no resemblance at all to the stallion, and I dont think she will grow out of being butt high, but horses have proven me wrong before, only time will tell. 

A friend of mine has the most beautiful polish arabian mare she's 5 yrs old, I totally forget her bloodlines i'll ask her again, father and gfather is some type of champion blabla etc..PERFECT conformation, I'll post pics monday when i'll be at the barn she gives hoof for treats i'll get a vid of that for y'all :lol:.


----------



## MacabreMikolaj

Chiilaa said:


> I am willing to have a guess. Wild bay. Bay foals generally have cream points, and often they will stay pale until the horse is about two years old. So while the colour looks cool, the horse pictured is not in it's adult colour yet. His high stockings are covering the places most likely to see black
> 
> Wild bay can also affect the mane and tail - while I haven't seen it do this much to it, it is possible.
> 
> So my guess is that he is a young wild bay. I would love to see adult pics of him


Yeah, definitely keeping an eye on that one!


----------



## Druydess

Chiilaa said:


> I am willing to have a guess. Wild bay. Bay foals generally have cream points, and often they will stay pale until the horse is about two years old. So while the colour looks cool, the horse pictured is not in it's adult colour yet. His high stockings are covering the places most likely to see black
> 
> Wild bay can also affect the mane and tail - while I haven't seen it do this much to it, it is possible.
> 
> So my guess is that he is a young wild bay. I would love to see adult pics of him


I would second Wild Bay- saw one recently- quite stunning..


----------



## Druydess

Katze said:


> Oooooh love Fire and ice, and I seriously thought they came in Palomino **** Macabre set me straight though *:hide:*:lol:.
> 
> Druydess very pretty mare, I see no resemblance at all to the stallion, and I dont think she will grow out of being butt high, but horses have proven me wrong before, only time will tell.
> 
> A friend of mine has the most beautiful polish arabian mare she's 5 yrs old, I totally forget her bloodlines i'll ask her again, father and gfather is some type of champion blabla etc..PERFECT conformation, I'll post pics monday when i'll be at the barn she gives hoof for treats i'll get a vid of that for y'all :lol:.


Thanks Katze- that's not one of the best pics of him to use for comparison, others of him younger a quite different, but it's all good- people see different things depending on the material they have to compare.. 
Her full sister did the butt high thing at the same age and leveled out. Solei's already gaining more at the shoulder since last month.

Polish/ Polish Crabbet are wonderful horses- very people-oriented and sane..
Would love to hear of your friend's mare..


----------



## kitten_Val

Speed Racer said:


> There's a Khemosabi son, Khartoon Khlassic, who throws a _lot_ of white. His owners supposedly bred him to a mare who threw a filly that looks like a Paint, but is purebred. Here's a YouTube video of her.
> 
> ‪Khlassic Serenade ( Khartoon Khlassic x Gold N Serenity ) 2008 Purebred Arabian Pinto Filly‬‏ - YouTube


Gee... She looks painty!  I guess I'm little confused. Paint as a breed OF COURSE is not equal to other breed (Arab including). However I always thought "paint" is also used for the pattern (like that filly you posted). So technically she's a paint color, but still a purebred Arab.


----------



## Katze

Ah you'll havto wait t'ill monday, that's my "sane day" when I get to the barn for horsetherapy XD 

I'll get vids posted of this mare she's just lovely and a stunner, the give hoof that she does for treats is hilarious, she get's the "imacrazyarab" look then gives paw ****.

Granted the pic you have of him is old. he's also a stud but the body type just looks different, he looks like a stockier old style arabian, she's more sleek and slender, but again it could be the pics. She is a beauty regardless, and as to the butt high, are you sure she isn't standing on an incline so she "looks" butt high?


----------



## kitten_Val

Poco1220 said:


> A neighbors purebred dilute sabino arab mare


THAT some loud color for sure! How old is she?


----------



## Druydess

Katze said:


> Ah you'll havto wait t'ill monday, that's my "sane day" when I get to the barn for horsetherapy XD
> 
> I'll get vids posted of this mare she's just lovely and a stunner, the give hoof that she does for treats is hilarious, she get's the "imacrazyarab" look then gives paw ****.
> 
> Granted the pic you have of him is old. he's also a stud but the body type just looks different, he looks like a stockier old style arabian, she's more sleek and slender, but again it could be the pics. She is a beauty regardless, and as to the butt high, are you sure she isn't standing on an incline so she "looks" butt high?


Oh I didn't post that pic; it's the worst possible one to use to see any resemblance to her. I suppose knowing more about his Dam- Serafina allows me to see some of the similarities- she was a beauty and more refined like Solei.
Solei has been a lovable problem child as far as growth and weight goes for the last 3 years. She literally grows in spurts and then levels.. One day she ribby, then butt-high, next she's sawed off.. If I'm not happy with her, I just wait a week or 2.. people think I'm kidding, but I'm afraid it is too true. :lol:

I'll just be patient, and then we'll have some fun.. :wink:


----------



## Cat

Druydess said:


> To that comment:
> 
> 
> This was addressed by:
> By Deb Bennett, Ph.D
> 
> Just a few points from that article are summarized here:
> 
> • *No horse, of any breed or bloodline, is mature before the age of 5 ½.
> *
> • The earliest-maturing horses are small, scrubby, range-bred mares.
> Male horses tend to lag about 6 months behind female herd members kept under the same circumstances. *Good feeding tends to prolong growth and delay maturity. *
> *
> • No horse is skeletally mature at age 2. *
> There are both advantages and disadvantages of starting horses at age 2 or earlier. Unless there is a compelling
> economic reason, I advise waiting to start young horses undersaddle until they are 4.
> 
> • *There is more than one "growth plate". *
> The one growth plate that most people know about is the one "at the knee" (actually, at the bottom of the radiusulna bone just above the knee). Every bone in the skeleton outside the skull contains at least one growth plate.
> Each limb bone has one at the top, one at the bottom, and may have others (on prongs or projections such as the
> tip of the elbow or the third trochanter of the femur).
> 
> • Maturation follows a definite pattern.
> Individual portions of the skeleton become mature when the growth plate nearest them fuses to the bone shaft.
> There is a schedule for this over the horse's body: the lower down in the limbs, the earlier in life the growth plates
> fuse.
> 
> • The last parts of the skeleton to become mature are the vertebrae and teeth. The last teeth erupt in a male horse at age 5 ½ to 6. *The last vertebral growth plates also fuse at about this age,
> or later.
> *
> • *The slowest-maturing horses are tall, long-necked individuals.
> Largeness itself tends to delay maturity.*



I'm curious as to what point you are trying to make with this? You really are missing several key concepts Dr. Deb Bennet points out. She point blank states in her Ranger piece that the ones that are going to be growing until 8 are going to be the +17 hand males - especially if they have long necks. Stallions/Geldings continue growing for about 6 months more than mares of the relative same size. And a 15 or so hand mare is considered relatively average in the discussion of frame development so their maturation rate is even going to be shorter and more in line with 5-6 year skeletal maturation. 

http://www.equinestudies.org/ranger_2008/ranger_piece_2008_pdf1.pdf

Also keep in mind that the last part of maturation of the skeleton is not height producing bones, but the length on the back & neck. Those height producing bones are done almost a year early according to the timeline she provides. 

Now that does not mean the horse is done filling out - that is just the skeletal maturation that the article discusses. Now horses do continue to muscle up and fill out as they age and it can change how they look. 

If the horse is in training and being worked consistently and properly - good collection and not being forced in frame by hands or equipment, then the overall muscle tone can produce a horse that looks more balanced and level than is true about their skeletal form. This doesn't help when it comes to genetics and breeding purposes but can be beneficial for showing and overall riding quality.

However, with poor training (forced frames) or lack of muscling it can add emphasis to the flaws - something you absolutely do not want in a show horse. Not sure if you are training her yourself or hiring a trainer, but if your goal is a well balanced show horse - I would be very careful in what trainer I allow work with her and make sure they actually understand the concept of collection and working their body. That will be your best bet. Good luck. :wink:


----------



## Druydess

Cat said:


> I'm curious as to what point you are trying to make with this? :wink:


Someone asked the question- Golden Horse I believe- I answered it- that was the point... :wink:


----------



## Poco1220

kitten_Val said:


> THAT some loud color for sure! How old is she?


She's a 2002 mare - so 9?


----------



## 2manyminis

Druydess said:


> LOL- neither can I!
> Hmmm- I never mentioned a stallion.. :-o


 No, you didn't, but you google your mare's name & this pops up-

Gold N Obsidian -

So, is this your site or not?


----------



## Druydess

Katze said:


> Ah you'll havto wait t'ill monday, that's my "sane day" when I get to the barn for horsetherapy XD
> 
> I'll get vids posted of this mare she's just lovely and a stunner, the give hoof that she does for treats is hilarious, she get's the "imacrazyarab" look then gives paw ****.
> 
> Granted the pic you have of him is old. he's also a stud but the body type just looks different, he looks like a stockier old style arabian, she's more sleek and slender, but again it could be the pics. She is a beauty regardless, and as to the butt high, are you sure she isn't standing on an incline so she "looks" butt high?


BTW Katze, thank you so much for your level-headed, intelligent comments/compliments. I appreciate thoughtful exchanges. Monday's fine- I totally understand "sane" day- can never wait to get out to all my babies..


----------



## bubba13

You didn't like that last pic (showing perfectly square conformation and allowing an exceptional opportunity to analyze the horse), so how about this one?


----------



## Cat

Druydess said:


> Someone asked the question- Golden Horse I believe- I answered it- that was the point... :wink:


Actually I did see the question presented by Golden Horse, but I did not see an actual answer in your long post to that very specific question about Arabians. If you said you answered it, I guess you answered it and I just have a horrible case of reading comprehension fail. I'm sorry if I stepped on any toes.


----------



## WhoaNow

bubba13 said:


> You didn't like that last pic (showing perfectly square conformation and allowing an exceptional opportunity to analyze the horse), so how about this one?


Beautiful horses! So Pretty!


----------



## MacabreMikolaj

bubba - it's ironic, in Zierra's post in Pictures someone had mentioned how Arabs never look good squared up and yet Serafix looks stunning. I think that's the true balance of a well bred Crabbet horse, the athleticness just shines through.

Still not seeing much of a resemblance...short back to long back, narrow chest to wide chest, thin long neck to short hooked neck, perfectly straight legs to toeing out, long pasterns to short pasterns. Even the heads are utterly different. I don't know that I've seen two Arabs who look more different then these two honestly.


----------



## bubba13

Look at how much heavier his bone is, too. I love that in a horse--should predispose toward long-term soundness. Nice big hooves and great, strong structure.


----------



## Poco1220

Dammit Macabre! They already discussed this! They are the *same color!!!*


----------



## MacabreMikolaj

Our Arabs had a good amount of Serafix, and he just really represents everything I adore about the Crabbets, and what I think a good Arab should look like. I love them thick, sturdy, sound and athletic - beautiful stream lined heads and stream lined bodies, but more like miniature QH's then dainty little princesses.










Granted she's FAT in that photo, but just a lot more substance and really able to go the distance!


----------



## Druydess

WhoaNow said:


> LOL, Thanks for clearing that little mystery up :mrgreen:
> My day,..., pretty stellar TOO!:thumbsup:


This is a great little forum- met some great people here already- a few I know from others and some of the breeders I respect are here too. Hey, I know you have QH's but are you familiar with Gainey Cornerstone Arabians? She has some great horses, and her E is something else..


----------



## 2manyminis

MacabreMikolaj said:


> bubba - it's ironic, in Zierra's post in Pictures someone had mentioned how Arabs never look good squared up and yet Serafix looks stunning. I think that's the true balance of a well bred Crabbet horse, the athleticness just shines through.
> 
> Still not seeing much of a resemblance...short back to long back, narrow chest to wide chest, thin long neck to short hooked neck, perfectly straight legs to toeing out, long pasterns to short pasterns. Even the heads are utterly different. I don't know that I've seen two Arabs who look more different then these two honestly.


 And since Serafix is the mare in questions great great grandfather through one line, and great great great grandfather through another, and he didn't seem to breed true after the second generation and they started outcrossing him onto different lines- I would think any influence that Serafix might have had in stamping this mare has long since been bred out. JIMO.


----------



## WhoaNow

Druydess said:


> This is a great little forum- met some great people here already-
> a few I know from others and some of the breeders I respect are here too. Hey, I know you have QH's but are you familiar with Gainey Cornerstone Arabians? She has some great horses, and her E is something else..


I've seen her on another forum, but I'm not totally familiar with her horses.
Sorry


----------



## WhoaNow

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Our Arabs had a good amount of Serafix, and he just really represents everything I adore about the Crabbets, and what I think a good Arab should look like. I love them thick, sturdy, sound and athletic - beautiful stream lined heads and stream lined bodies, but more like miniature QH's then dainty little princesses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Granted she's FAT in that photo, but just a lot more substance and really able to go the distance!


Speaking of QHs, this girl really reminds me of a QH more than an Arabian.
Hope I'm not offending anyone by saying that:wink:.
She is quite lovely too.


----------



## MacabreMikolaj

2manyminis said:


> And since Serafix is the mare in questions great great grandfather through one line, and great great great grandfather through another, and he didn't seem to breed true after the second generation and they started outcrossing him onto different lines- I would think any influence that Serafix might have had in stamping this mare has long since been bred out. JIMO.


Excellent point.


----------



## MacabreMikolaj

WhoaNow said:


> Speaking of QHs, this girl really reminds me of a QH more than an Arabian.
> Hope I'm not offending anyone by saying that:wink:.
> She is quite lovely too.







































I assure you, she's very Arab. She's just not a breakable stick figure, and can do anything you ask of her.


----------



## Druydess

WhoaNow said:


> I've seen her on another forum, but I'm not totally familiar with her horses.
> Sorry


If you get the chance, look up her site Gainey Cornerstone Arabians. Her horses are amazing representations of Sport Horse and her stallion produces quality. I've learned quite a bit from her and she is a wonderful woman who is supportive of new people breaking into the business.
This woman has more knowledge than anyone I know about Arabian lineage, except for maybe Arlene Magid.. :wink:
Hope to go visit her in VA soon and see E!!


----------



## Druydess

WhoaNow said:


> Speaking of QHs, this girl really reminds me of a QH more than an Arabian.
> Hope I'm not offending anyone by saying that:wink:.
> She is quite lovely too.


She definitely one of the stockier types.. some do resemble QH's a bit. My Magic is much denser of bone than Solei..


----------



## Allison Finch

Well, I'm sure no arab expert. The only ones I had much to do with were race horses. One of the trainers I galloped for had arabs. They were SOO different than the TBs. We used longer stirrups, which I did like, though.




























I never could get used to those little things.....


----------



## WhoaNow

The different 'types' are so interesting,.., and so dissimilar:wink:.


----------



## Druydess

WhoaNow said:


> The different 'types' are so interesting,.., and so dissimilar:wink:.


Very true.. It's one of the reasons I like Crabbet so much. Lady Blunt really knew what she was doing when she hand picked her Arabians and brought them to England. The Arab of today (some lines) are nothing like their ancestors.

Here's a good for anyone interested in Crabbet breeding..

Why Buy Crabbet


----------



## Cat

Druydess said:


> The Arab of today (some lines) are nothing like their ancestors.


So very true.


----------



## 2manyminis

There was some interesting conversation at the Region 12 meeting in regards to AHA judges being heard to say that the horses touted as "Sporthorses" where horses that, BITD, were the ones that got left at home- as in not good enough to even make a show hack. Now I'm glad that there's a niche for them, and they are making good use of them, but I guess I'm spoiled from all the horses my dad raised- horses pretty and correct enough to show halter, but substanstial enough to go into the performance classes as well.

Guilty confession, but Dad leased Lewisfield Magic for a year & worked cows off him during the week, then hauled him in to show on the weekends in halter and WP, and even a few EP classes. I hate that they don't breed for horses like that anymore.


----------



## WhoaNow

LOL, MUST SLEEP:wink:

Thanks Dru for sharing your pics. 
Solei is stunning.
Please continue to post your pictures of all your pretty girls.

I'll introduce my new guy on here one day,..., maybe,...,:mrgreen:


----------



## Druydess

WhoaNow said:


> LOL, MUST SLEEP:wink:
> 
> Thanks Dru for sharing your pics.
> Solei is stunning.
> Please continue to post your pictures of all your pretty girls.
> 
> I'll introduce my new guy on here one day,..., maybe,...,:mrgreen:


Thank you as well- going myself- have things to do in the AM..
Party's over for tonight!! :clap:


----------



## Golden Horse

MacabreMikolaj said:


> I assure you, she's very Arab. She's just not a breakable stick figure, and can do anything you ask of her.


I love that sort, her head is so Arab but has a nice well sprung solid body, I can totally see her doing anything a person wanted to try with her...but them I'm biased



















:lol::lol:


----------



## Cat

Golden Horse said:


> I love that sort, her head is so Arab but has a nice well sprung solid body, I can totally see her doing anything a person wanted to try with her...but them I'm biased
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :lol::lol:


Ace is such a beauty!


----------



## 2manyminis

Golden Horse said:


> I love that sort, her head is so Arab but has a nice well sprung solid body, I can totally see her doing anything a person wanted to try with her...but them I'm biased
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :lol::lol:


 
I want her so bad! Trade ya a short zebra dun who thinks he can do everything...


----------



## Golden Horse

Thank you Cat, I just love that mare so much, she has totally converted me to the breed, she is all that and more:thumbsup:


----------



## horseluver2435

OP, your horse looks very nice, looks like she gets a lot of care & attention. Good luck with her.


----------



## Golden Horse

2manyminis said:


> I want her so bad! Trade ya a short zebra dun who thinks he can do everything...



:lol: Mmmmmmm let me think about it, 


NOPE, hands off of my baby


----------



## Poco1220

Golden Horse said:


> :lol: Mmmmmmm let me think about it,
> 
> 
> NOPE, hands off of my baby


Speaking of babies... that mare of yours lookin' any closer? Haven't seen any updates!


----------



## Golden Horse

No news, I'm starting to think that she may not be in foal after all :twisted:


----------



## Poco1220

Golden Horse said:


> No news, I'm starting to think that she may not be in foal after all :twisted:


Call and schedule a vet to come out. Preferably late at night on a weekend so the bill is higher. She'll have the foal that evening


----------



## 2manyminis

She's waiting till Brie foals. Brie was due in May, if you recall, but insists on getting bigger and bigger till right now she looks like an egorged tick. Yes, she's preggers, they were jut off base in telling me she was due in May.


----------



## Druydess

horseluver2435 said:


> OP, your horse looks very nice, looks like she gets a lot of care & attention. Good luck with her.


Thank you horseluver; she certainly gets lots of love, and yes, apparently attention..


----------



## Alwaysbehind

Faceman said:


> There are those that would argue that. Current theory is that ALL homozygous Appys have night blindness. Now with that being said, night blindness occurs at different levels - some bad, and some not so bad, and it is also possible your snowcap is a false snowcap and not homozygous, which is not that uncommon...


Interesting. I will have to ask the vet about that. The vet who has checked her eyes the last two years is an eye specialist so I am doubting there is something there and she has missed it.
Since I have no intentions of breeding BF it does not matter to me if she is truly a snowcap or not. It seems like not is a good answer in this case.



Golden Horse said:


> Gorgeous, simply stunning color, HAFLINGER color, plain chestnut, that is.:lol:


That is exactly what I was thinking.


----------



## Mike_User

Hi everyone,

A bunch of "meta discussion" has been removed from this thread. 

I would like to remind everyone that, while we don't ask members to sugar coat things here, we _do_ require that they not serve them with venom. That includes not only going after another member with the forum equivalent of a machete, but attempting to inflict "death by 1000 tiny cuts" as well.

If an OP chooses not to answer certain questions, that's just something everyone has to accept and draw whatever conclusions from they may. It is not an excuse to go "all Jack Bauer" on an OP.










This thread is about the OP's breeding her horse. If you don't think the OP should breed her horse for whatever reason, you are welcome to say so. If you have a question for the OP, you are welcome to ask it, but understand that the OP may not answer, and be prepared to accept that. 

If all you have is backhanded, underhanded, mean spirited little jabs, then you should find another forum more accommodating, because that's not what we are about here.

Finally, please reserve whatever drama is going on at other forums for those forums. We let members' posts at the Horse Forum speak for themselves.


----------



## apachiedragon

I would like to say that the OP's mare is very pretty to look at, and although there are some conformation flaws that may or may not even out _some_ as she matures, there is nothing more eye-catching that a bright chestnut. I have one of my own, who BTW didn't finish visibly maturing until he was about 8 or so, but he is Saddlebred, so long and lean, and 16.2, and his growth after 5 was not mostly in height (I think maybe an inch and a half from age 5-8) but in filling out and LOOKING more mature. I would say the mare may lose her "baby" look, but I'm seriously doubtful that she will gain the height needed to even her out completely, although when she fills in some, she may well LOOK more even.


----------



## bubba13

Alwaysbehind said:


> Interesting. I will have to ask the vet about that. The vet who has checked her eyes the last two years is an eye specialist so I am doubting there is something there and she has missed it.
> Since I have no intentions of breeding BF it does not matter to me if she is truly a snowcap or not. It seems like not is a good answer in this case.


I don't actually know much about nightblindness, so I could be off-base, but are you sure you aren't confusing it with moonblindness (uveitis)? Both are Appaloosa problems, but the latter is chronic and progressive inflammation (which should show up on an exam) and the former is the inability to see in dimly-lit surroundings. I don't know if an eye exam would pick that up or not.


----------



## Alwaysbehind

I guess I was getting them confused. 

But this mare is on night turn out (for the summer) and does not seem to have a problem with that either.

I would say she bumps into more things (because she is reactive and moves before she thinks) during the day than she does at night.

It sure is worth talking to the vet about next time they are out (fall will be here soon enough).


----------



## bubba13

They say most of them learn to adapt. There were four fewspots (and probably several other homozygous horses, but I'm less adept at recognizing snowcaps) at work. One is completely blind from uveitis. He gets around remarkably well for a blind horse, though his face is always covered in scrapes from running into things. The others were all younger and fully sighted, and you wouldn't have suspected anything amiss. But one time the youngest cut his eye, presumably by ramming a tree branch into the eye ball. It was an awful, hideous abscess, with a giant gaping hole in the middle. The vet thought there was a good chance he'd lose his eye, but did surgery anyway, and remarkably it was successful, leaving only a tiny blue dot and minimal vision loss. While he was recovering, though, he had to be kept in solitary in a small paddock. One day he was discovered to have a giant--and I mean a GIANT--crater in the middle of his head. Probably a three- to four-inch diameter and an inch deep. Totally crushed his sinus and fractured his skull, though he seemed remarkably none the worse for wear. The only thing I could think is that he got spooked at night, or just couldn't see his surroundings, and ran smack-dab into a fence post. I don't know what other explanation there could be, since there were no horses around to kick him.


----------



## Druydess

apachiedragon said:


> I would like to say that the OP's mare is very pretty to look at, and although there are some conformation flaws that may or may not even out _some_ as she matures, there is nothing more eye-catching that a bright chestnut. I have one of my own, who BTW didn't finish visibly maturing until he was about 8 or so, but he is Saddlebred, so long and lean, and 16.2, and his growth after 5 was not mostly in height (I think maybe an inch and a half from age 5-8) but in filling out and LOOKING more mature. I would say the mare may lose her "baby" look, but I'm seriously doubtful that she will gain the height needed to even her out completely, although when she fills in some, she may well LOOK more even.


Thanks for a great post Apache! Very good points. I am well aware my mare is not perfect, as no horse is, and I don't expect her to be. My focus is making her the best she can be and highlighting her good points and maximizing her abilities. She will be a personal mount for me and I plan on retaining her, so it is not critical to me that she meet some elite standard. Her personality, sane mind, demeanor, and beauty are more than satisfactory to me. 
Some people love and some hate her.. either way, she continues to meet and exceed what's asked of her. Every ones tastes are different; judging from the interest she generates, she has her own market 

I look forward to how she finishes..

Thanks again!


----------



## Druydess

I'd like to sincerely thank the Administrator and Mods for making this forum a place with an environment conducive to intelligent discussion, open mindedness, and mutual respect, where people feel welcome and valued. Too many times people are run off and lose the opportunity to learn and share positive experiences. 
It is refreshing and much appreciated that this forum supports its members.
Thank you...


----------



## WhoaNow

Druydess said:


> I'd like to sincerely thank the Administrator and Mods for making this forum a place with an environment conducive to intelligent discussion,
> open mindedness, and mutual respect, where people feel welcome and valued.
> Too many times people are run off and lose the opportunity to learn and share positive experiences.
> It is refreshing and much appreciated that this forum supports its members.
> Thank you...


Ditto, Nice post:wink:


----------



## Druydess

WhoaNow said:


> Ditto, Nice post:wink:


Thanks- it's heartfelt- glad someone else shares the sentiment..

How was your day? I have to say today was a good one..good work-out at the gym, nice Filet Mignon dinner with a gorgeous man, and of course, the horses!

And tomorrow I have off! Training time for the next show.. :wink:

Have you done any showing WN? It's all new to me, but I have a fabulous trainer who is just amazing; friend of BazyTankersley of AL Marah Arabians.. has owned/shown some of her horses, and apparently learned a great deal from her..


----------



## WhoaNow

LOL, as my DH likes to say, "Never had it so good":thumbsup:


----------



## Druydess

WhoaNow said:


> LOL, as my DH likes to say, "Never had it so good":thumbsup:


Takes an intelligent man to know when he has it good.. :wink:


----------



## WhoaNow

Druydess said:


> Have you done any showing WN?
> It's all new to me, but I have a fabulous trainer who is just amazing;
> friend of BazyTankersley of AL Marah Arabians..
> has owned/shown some of her horses, and apparently learned a great deal from her..


YEARS ago,.., I just trail ride these days,..,
And in the heat we've been having, I'm not doing that either.
Have put a lot of ground work into my new guy.
He's a good boy:wink:, but just not like my 'ole reliable' of the last 19 years (YIKES!! 19 years!!!!:shock


----------



## Druydess

WhoaNow said:


> YEARS ago,.., I just trail ride these days,..,
> And in the heat we've been having, I'm not doing that either.
> Have put a lot of ground work into my new guy.
> He's a good boy:wink:, but just not like my 'ole reliable' of the last 19 years (YIKES!! 19 years!!!!:shock


19 years?? It must be amazing to have a companion that long.. I can't say I've been blessed to have such longevity just yet- got all my babies later, after establishing a career so I can afford them..LOL.. but I have them finally and they were all worth the wait..

I'm grateful my trainer is so knowledgeable- she was directing 7 horses- 2 were mine- non- stop, multiple classes for 2 days.. I learned a lot- quick - many of us were competing against each other and everyone was just as happy that another person placed, even above them.

It really was a great experience and she is such a Pro!


----------



## WhoaNow

Druydess said:


> 19 years?? It must be amazing to have a companion that long.. I can't say I've been blessed to have such longevity just yet- got all my babies later, after establishing a career so I can afford them..LOL.. but I have them finally and they were all worth the wait..
> 
> I'm grateful my trainer is so knowledgeable- she was directing 7 horses- 2 were mine- non- stop, multiple classes for 2 days.. I learned a lot- quick - many of us were competing against each other and everyone was just as happy that another person placed, even above them.
> 
> It really was a great experience and she is such a Pro!


My new guy is fancy enough to go to some shows, 
but I bought him just to trail ride.
He is a handsome fella though (if I do say so myself:wink.
I've never been particularly competitive, I just enjoy my horses, and the lifestyle.
Plus, I really don't have the time to show,...,
*it must definitely help to have a good trainer:wink:.

Glad to hear its going so well for you.
*


----------



## Druydess

WhoaNow said:


> My new guy is fancy enough to go to some shows,
> but I bought him just to trail ride.
> He is a handsome fella though (if I do say so myself:wink.
> I've never been particularly competitive, I just enjoy my horses, and the lifestyle.
> Plus, I really don't have the time to show,...,
> *it must definitely help to have a good trainer:wink:.
> 
> Glad to hear its going so well for you.
> *


You'll have to send me some pics of your guys.. I have a rescue QH and she is just lovely- but very different from the Arabs.. they do truly have a different psyche..

The only time I was ever really competitive was in College; it was ON!! :wink: 
Shows I couldn't care much about really, but I've heard from EVERYONE that horses aren't worth a dime if they don't have a record, sooo we're getting them one.. We'll see how they do. Can't complain so far- they blew me away.

It does take a LOT of time, but fortunately the trainer handles everything when I'm working.. Yes, she is a Godsend.. And so unassuming- you'd never know what this woman has accomplished; she takes it all in stride.


----------



## bubba13

Druydess said:


> Shows I couldn't care much about really, but *I've heard from EVERYONE that horses aren't worth a dime if they don't have a record, sooo we're getting them one*.. We'll see how they do. Can't complain so far- they blew me away.
> 
> It does take a LOT of time, but fortunately the trainer handles everything when I'm working.. Yes, she is a Godsend.. And so unassuming- you'd never know what this woman has accomplished; she takes it all in stride.


 
Regarding the bolded part, I'm surprised that everyone has told you that. Seems like quite a closed-minded philosophy, and I'd have to disagree with "everyone." A horse can be proven without a show record, though of course the record certainly helps. But keep in mind that many people who brag and boast about show points weren't at the high levels. Saddle club and local stuff means nothing. Politics at those are sometimes worse than at the national level, and the quality of judge (and quality of competing horseflesh) is often poor. 

A strong pedigree means a lot, but that can't "prove" a horse. Conformation sets you up right, but it alone also means very little. Longterm soundness--both mental and physical--mean far more than anything else. I want to be able to push a horse, challenge its brain and its legs, and know that it's going to come out ready for more. Otherwise it's an automatic scratch. And a horse needs to be athletic, with clean movement. I want to see it work at liberty and under saddle, be responsive, quick on its feet, smooth...and then whatever discipline its supposedly suited for, it needs to be trained to the nines. Competing, yes, is great, but even without ribbons I can tell how good, sound, and athletic a horse is. Because that's what really matters.

And regarding the latter part, it's great when you're first starting out to have a trainer. I did that for awhile, but then found that my trainers were misleading me more often than not. So I switched to doing it myself, and what a change. There is nothing more satisfying and fulfilling than taking an unbroke ($200) young horse, breaking and training it yourself, and then beating professionals on their $50,000 horses...that was one of the happiest and proudest moments of my life.


----------



## MsBHavin

bubba13 said:


> There is nothing more satisfying and fulfilling than taking an unbroke ($200) young horse, breaking and training it yourself, and then beating professionals on their $50,000 horses...that was one of the happiest and proudest moments of my life.


Ooh! Congrats! You have every reason to be proud!


----------



## 2manyminis

Druydess said:


> Thanks- it's heartfelt- glad someone else shares the sentiment..
> 
> How was your day? I have to say today was a good one..good work-out at the gym, nice Filet Mignon dinner with a gorgeous man, and of course, the horses!
> 
> And tomorrow I have off! Training time for the next show.. :wink:
> 
> Have you done any showing WN? It's all new to me, but I have a fabulous trainer who is just amazing; friend of BazyTankersley of AL Marah Arabians.. has owned/shown some of her horses, and apparently learned a great deal from her..


 Having apprenticed with Al Marah many years ago, I have to say that Bazy has only ever handled the breeding end of her operation for many years- all training and showing was done by Jerry (who I apprenticed under, as did my trainer John Ryan of Springwater Farms)

Bazy had no interest in showing- she wanted to preserve certian bloodlines and made that her life's work.


----------



## WhoaNow

Druydess said:


> It's all new to me, but I have a fabulous trainer who is just amazing;
> friend of BazyTankersley of AL Marah Arabians..
> has owned/shown some of her horses, and apparently learned a great deal from her..


Dru,
I'm sorry, I plead ignorance here (sorry, just don't know that much about the Arabian world:wink.
Tell me more about your trainer, and training program:wink:.

Most of my trail riding friends are into the QHs or the gaited horses,..,
I don't know the Arabian community in this area, or else where, and wouldn't recognize trainers, etc. in that arena.

Thanks for any insight:wink:


----------



## Druydess

WhoaNow said:


> Dru,
> I'm sorry, I plead ignorance here (sorry, just don't know that much about the Arabian world:wink.
> Tell me more about your trainer, and training program:wink:.
> 
> Most of my trail riding friends are into the QHs or the gaited horses,..,
> I don't know the Arabian community in this area, or else where, and wouldn't recognize trainers, etc. in that arena.
> 
> Thanks for any insight:wink:


Yes, is a bit of a different world.

I'm still learning her method of training so I don't think I'd do it any justice trying to explain it, but she takes her time and certainly knows how to bring out the natural talents of each horse. She doesn't believe in "90 day wonders," and makes no bones about a horse's strong points and weak points. We've looked at Arabains around the area to see what's available and this woman can completely take apart a horse good and bad in 10 seconds..

My trainer actually was/is very close to Bazy Tankersley and her family, one of the most respected breeders in the country/world. Her mother and Bazy were friends and my trainer would spend summers from girlhood on Bazy's farm with Bazy's daughter, learning the day to day operations of an Arabian farm and a wealth of knowledge about breeding, as well as learning from Bazy's trainers re: showing over the years. 
Bazy was so fond of my trainer (Susan) that she gave her one of her prized Indraff sons, who lived into his 30 's and is currently buried on her property. She still talks to him and says she still hears him..
She's shared a lot of great stories and photos of her time there as well as some rare photos of the Al Marah greats..

With all her experience and knowledge just from this one source, be it an extensive one, it makes it even more of compliment that she believes in, and loves my horses..


----------



## Druydess

I'd forgot to enclose this- a link to a bit about Indraff and old lines.. he's about halfway down the page.

Reading Raswan: An Analysis of Arabian Pedigrees


----------



## WhoaNow

Druydess said:


> With all her experience and knowledge just from this one source,
> be it an extensive one, it makes it even more of compliment that
> she believes in, and loves my horses..


Sounds like you have made some good connections in your effort to promote your mare(s).
Looking forward to more pics, and more success stories:wink:.


----------



## Druydess

WhoaNow said:


> Sounds like you have made some good connections in your effort to promote your mare(s).
> Looking forward to more pics, and more success stories:wink:.


Well, I'm working on it. I've found when you look for things that are a passion to you, and do the right things, opportunities present themselves when you need them.

Here's a pic from a few years ago of Solei and her beloved late sister, Firestorm, who is dearly missed.. love this pic..


----------



## WhoaNow

Maybe you could do a horsey profile on Firestorm??
They have a 'in memory of' feature.
That would be a nice tribute to her:wink:

I'm sure you have some very nice pictures of her also.

Just a thought.


----------



## Druydess

WhoaNow said:


> Maybe you could do a horsey profile on Firestorm??
> They have a 'in memory of' feature.
> That would be a nice tribute to her:wink:
> 
> I'm sure you have some very nice pictures of her also.
> 
> Just a thought.


I had thought about doing that. She was such an amazing companion- my "soul" horse.. what a nice feature on this forum.
She started me on this path and remains my inspiration..


----------



## Druydess

Some other pics of my sweet girl..









Copyright- Obsidian Arabians

Both girls a few years ago- love the tandem shot- they were inseparable..









Copyright- Obsidian Arabians


----------



## WhoaNow

Nice pics,.., they look soo much alike:wink:
2 pretty ladies!!


----------



## Druydess

WhoaNow said:


> Nice pics,.., they look soo much alike:wink:
> 2 pretty ladies!!


Thanks you! Sometimes if they were farther away, it was difficult telling them apart; I'd always have to look for the white socks.. Up close it was easy as Firestorm was so much bigger.

Here's a pic of Ivanhoe Tsultan, one of the greats in their lines..


----------



## HorseLovinLady

Very nice Dru! Solei has always been my favorite of your horses.


----------



## Druydess

HorseLovinLady said:


> Very nice Dru! Solei has always been my favorite of your horses.


Everyone has a favorite.. :lol:

She may not be perfect, but she sure is striking! Thanks girl!

Now you'll have a few more to choose favorites from soon..makin; it harder for ya!! LOL


----------



## WhoaNow

Druydess said:


> *Now you'll have a few more to choose favorites from soon..makin; it harder for ya!! LOL*


Looking forward to that!!:clap:


----------



## Druydess

WhoaNow said:


> Looking forward to that!!:clap:


We're working on the official announcement.. we've had some "things" holding us up, but they are very good things.. :wink:

Can't wait for you to see this Echo Magnifficoo daughter..
He's a Triple Crown winning stallion, and apparently has a tendency to create lovely daughters who are very desirable and outproduce themselves.

Here's a link to his info..

Google Images

Google Images


----------



## WhoaNow

Pretty,.., I mean, Handsome!:wink:


----------



## equiniphile

Poco1220 said:


> At 6 shouldn't she be finished growing?


 Forgive me if this has been addressed already; I've only read the first page. Arabians mature much slower than most other breeds, both physically and mentally.

Gorgeous mare you have there!


----------



## Druydess

equiniphile said:


> Forgive me if this has been addressed already; I've only read the first page. Arabians mature much slower than most other breeds, both physically and mentally.
> 
> Gorgeous mare you have there!


Yes, they do- glad to have have another knowledgeable Arab person chime in.. 

Thanks Equineiphile.. she hopefully will "grow up" soon.. :thumbsup:


----------



## Druydess

WhoaNow said:


> Pretty,.., I mean, Handsome!:wink:


Yeah- can't really argue with THAT, can ya??


----------



## Katze

Gorgeous! I do beleive that one simple word sums it all up lol :thumbsup:. And as for that stud *gimme!!*
Your mare looks like a female version of Ivanhoe Tsultan, he seems long and lean as well, what a stunning stud.


----------



## Druydess

Katze said:


> Gorgeous! I do beleive that one simple word sums it all up lol :thumbsup:. And as for that stud *gimme!!*
> Your mare looks like a female version of Ivanhoe Tsultan, he seems long and lean as well, what a stunning stud.


Yes, he is quite something.. didn't think I'd own one of his daughters, but opportunity comes when you least expect it.

Solei does take more after the Ivanhoe line. She and her sister have always been on the lean side. My grey is SO Crabbet- shorter and stockier with denser bone. I do like the old Crabbet types. 
Solei is my "refined" prissy one..:grin::grin:

Here's Ivanoe Tsultan's pedigree along with another great pic of him.. so many Arabians in this lineage have such interesting histories and were the foundation of the Crabbet Stud.


----------



## Celeste

She is beautiful!
My girl took one last growth spurt at six.


----------



## Druydess

Druydess said:


> Yes, he is quite something.. didn't think I'd own one of his daughters, but opportunity comes when you least expect it.
> 
> Solei does take more after the Ivanhoe line. She and her sister have always been on the lean side. My grey is SO Crabbet- shorter and stockier with denser bone. I do like the old Crabbet types.
> Solei is my "refined" prissy one..:grin::grin:
> 
> Here's Ivanoe Tsultan's pedigree along with another great pic of him.. so many Arabians in this lineage have such interesting histories and were the foundation of the Crabbet Stud.


Forgot the link:
Ivanhoe Tsultan Arabian


----------



## Druydess

Celeste said:


> She is beautiful!
> My girl took one last growth spurt at six.


Thank you Celeste- her sister had a similar spurt the same age.. Vet said it isn't that unusual, especially in Arabs.


----------



## Celeste

"Arabians mature much slower than most other breeds, both physically and mentally."

So maybe there is hope for my Sshabecka! (Mental maturity is what concerns me............)


----------



## Druydess

Celeste said:


> "Arabians mature much slower than most other breeds, both physically and mentally."
> 
> So maybe there is hope for my Sshabecka! (Mental maturity is what concerns me............)



How old is your Sshabecka? Have a pic of her- would love to see it.. :wink:

Mental maturity is extremely important. Solei is very sensitive, too smart sometimes, and responds very quickly; she can sometimes get overwhelmed, so she is being handled/trained slowly, giving her all the time she needs to mature and process information to build her confidence.


----------



## Celeste

She is seven. She is also my avatar picture. I'll find more pics when I am on my home computer.


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## Druydess

Celeste said:


> She is seven. She is also my avatar picture. I'll find more pics when I am on my home computer.


What breed is she- hard to tell for sure from the avatar.. ? Post when ya can..


----------



## Celeste

She is an Arab. I forgot to put up the pics last night.


----------



## Celeste

Here are a few pictures of Sshabecka. She could stand a little grooming. All the pictures except the fly mask picture were taken with her long winter coat.


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## Druydess

She's just lovely Celeste- certainly can see the Arab in these pics!!
Love the profile shot- great head..love the small muzzle.

Good to meet a fellow Arab person!


----------



## Celeste

Thanks! I really love Arabs. This is the third one I have had. Each has been special. They are great horses.


----------



## Druydess

Celeste said:


> Thanks! I really love Arabs. This is the third one I have had. Each has been special. They are great horses.


I have found the same thing.. Arabs are so very intelligent and have such an inner tranquility and spirit.. They are amazing teachers..I've learned so much from all my Arabians.. 
Each is unique and I love their different personalities!!
What's your girl's breeding?


----------



## Celeste

I wish I knew enough about bloodlines to know what if anything is significant about her. Her sire was The Sshadow. He won a lot of big shows at the Egyptian nationals somewhere around 2003 or 2004. In his lines are Moniet El Sharaf, The Minstril.......... Actually, I have no clue who is significant. lol.
She is a nice horse though. Put together correctly.


----------



## Druydess

Celeste said:


> I wish I knew enough about bloodlines to know what if anything is significant about her. Her sire was The Sshadow. He won a lot of big shows at the Egyptian nationals somewhere around 2003 or 2004. In his lines are Moniet El Sharaf, The Minstril.......... Actually, I have no clue who is significant. lol.
> She is a nice horse though. Put together correctly.


Well, the Moniet lines are very nice and The Minstril has a great history, though some don't like him. However, Ruminaji Ali is classic. What an amazing stallion he was! I've been in touch with the Bergren's who last owned Ali and they just had a foal born from frozen semen recently.. so the late ol' man is still Siring!

What's her Registered name?- I'll look her up if you like. I'm no expert, but I'll see if I can dig anything up for you; have friends that are very knowledgeable..

Some other news about other foals born after his death:
Ruminaja Ali Foals Born 13yrs After Stallion Dies - Select Breeders Services


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## Celeste

Her name is AD Sshabecca. 
I would appreciate any input. 
I am glad to know she has a few nice ancestors.
I never have really studied bloodlines. I know a nice horse when I see it though.


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## HorseLovinLady

Love your avatar Dru!! Is that Firestorm?


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## WhoaNow

HorseLovinLady said:


> Love your avatar Dru!! Is that Firestorm?


Ditto!! Great picture:wink:


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## Druydess

HorseLovinLady said:


> Love your avatar Dru!! Is that Firestorm?


Yes, that's my dear girl. Figured it was only fitting to have her as my avatar as she was, and is still, my inspiration..


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## Druydess

Celeste said:


> Her name is AD Sshabecca.
> I would appreciate any input.
> I am glad to know she has a few nice ancestors.
> I never have really studied bloodlines. I know a nice horse when I see it though.


I had a chance to look her up and she is very high percentage Egyptian.. I am not an Egyptian person, but some of the other names in her pedigree are very desirable in Arabians.. She is high percentage black breeding. An Egyptian breeder friend thought she was very nicely bred.
I don't know if you're a member, but if you join the AHA site, there is more info to be had there..
Sorry not to have more info than I originally posted, but she does seem to have lovely lines.. A friend of mine, Arlene Magid does pedigree research- perhaps she could give you more info if you'd like..


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## KidsMom

I own Windsong Fantasy as well as Gloriouss Toon who is a full sister to WA Outrageou as well as Pikhasso. She's not near as loudly colored as her two siblings, but has the extreme high white on all 4 legs, a super wide blaze and 3 belly spots. She's still stunning none the less.


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## Druydess

KidsMom said:


> I own Windsong Fantasy as well as Gloriouss Toon who is a full sister to WA Outrageou as well as Pikhasso. She's not near as loudly colored as her two siblings, but has the extreme high white on all 4 legs, a super wide blaze and 3 belly spots. She's still stunning none the less.


Well you can't tease us like that and not post any pics! WA is stunning!


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## KidsMom

Gloriouss Toon, full sister to WA Outrageous











Gloriouss Toon and Windsong Fantasy


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## Druydess

They are just gorgeous! You must be so proud!


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## KidsMom

Thanks. We're pretty smitten with them. Really looking forward to foals next spring by our Desperado V son, RDA Desperado Kid.


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## Druydess

KidsMom said:


> Thanks. We're pretty smitten with them. Really looking forward to foals next spring by our Desperado V son, RDA Desperado Kid.


You'll have to post the new arrivals! Look forward to seeing what they produce!


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## Ebzeenah

Druydess said:


> Some of my lovely Arabian/Horse/Breeder friends told me how wonderful this site is, so I thought I'd come and share some recent news about one of my mares, Solei. Glad to be around great horsepeople!!
> 
> My Arabian, La Legacy de Solei, was recently the subject of a Write-up by the incomparable Arabian expert, Arlene Magid. I am so pleased with the wealth of information she has researched on my mare's pedigree. I learned so much more about her breeding, and the amazing stars in her lines. Would love any discussion about the old greats and favorite lines others admire..
> 
> I highly recommend Arlene Magid for future write-ups if one is interested in exploring pedigrees and getting great insight.
> 
> Solei is currently being trained in Hunter and will probably head toward Country Pleasure.
> 
> 
> A few pics from today; I just love this mare!
> 
> Pasture condition- au natural:


I know somewhere later in this thread the OP states that she doesn't think Solei looks much like either of her parents, but this head shot of her IMO looks a whole lot like this head shot of her sire, Ha Le Fire:












If you compare this shot of Solei:










~ To this shot of her dam, KF Tsylent Legacy, again IMO, even though the angle is a little off, Solei does appear to take on a few of her dam's characteristics:












~ As well as the profile shot here of just her head:










And I'm so glad that Legacy's memory, name, and great bloodline will continue through generations to come by Solei and her future progeny.


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## Ebzeenah

Druydess said:


> Of course- an excellent article:
> 
> http://www.distanceriding.org/php/articles/health/Function.pdf
> 
> Another interesting quote by Deb:
> The Arabian breed produces many individuals suitable for riding, while also producing a significant number suitable for flat
> racing. Davenport and other Old Egyptian bloodlines, as well as some of the rarer antique American bloodlines, produce short-coupled horses with round bodies, a good cut of withers and shoulder, arched necks that are not too long or fine, and good bone. The Polish and Crabbet lines also produce significant numbers of horses suitable for riding.
> 
> Interestingly, Solei is Crabbet and Polish..  And she lives up to her heritage..
> 
> Here's a link to Serafix- of which she has two lines to..
> The resemblance is uncanny..
> 
> *Serafix - Crabbet purebred Arabian stallion


I'm a little prejudice here, but I think the Serafix resemblence:











~ Has carried through to Fire in a little more than the strip and snip on his face and the copper shimmer in his coat:











But of course, that is again just IMO.


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## WhoaNow

Solei is GORGEOUS, Dru:wink:


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## Druydess

WhoaNow said:


> Solei is GORGEOUS, Dru:wink:


Thanks Girl- so glad she resembles her grandparents and great-grandparents.. her refinement and typiness is certainly a surprise, all things considered. :wink:


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## NdAppy

Actually she resembles her sire/dam more so than her grandsires/grandams and greatgrandsires/greatgranddams...


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## Druydess

NdAppy said:


> Actually she resembles her sire/dam more so than her grandsires/grandams and greatgrandsires/greatgranddams...


Being her owner, seeing her everyday, and also having seen her Dam and Sire personally, I disagree. as do the experts who've evaluated her.


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## RealQuiet

Ebzeenah said:


> I know somewhere later in this thread the OP states that she doesn't think Solei looks much like either of her parents, but this head shot of her IMO looks a whole lot like this head shot of her sire, Ha Le Fire:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you compare this shot of Solei:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~ To this shot of her dam, KF Tsylent Legacy, again IMO, even though the angle is a little off, Solei does appear to take on a few of her dam's characteristics:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~ As well as the profile shot here of just her head:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I'm so glad that Legacy's memory, name, and great bloodline will continue through generations to come by Solei and her future progeny.



o my goodness! those two are SOO gorgeous! the OP is SO lucky her horse came out of such beautiful a dam and sire! I can see from the pics she DOES look just like them! wow, what a LUCKY owner to have the offspring of these two! I must say, she does look more like her sire than serafix, tho both are gorgeous I think their body types are abit different, meaning HLF, and Serafix.


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## Celeste

Dru, they are probably jealous. Your horses are beautiful!


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## Druydess

Celeste said:


> Dru, they are probably jealous. Your horses are beautiful!


LOL- you're probably right..thanks girl.. it doesn't take long for people to see what's going on.. 

Hey did you ever see what I wrote about your girl's breeding?


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## Celeste

Druydess said:


> LOL- you're probably right..thanks girl.. it doesn't take long for people to see what's going on..
> 
> Hey did you ever see what I wrote about your girl's breeding?


Don't think I found it.


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## Druydess

Celeste said:


> Don't think I found it.


I'll have to look for it- forgot where I wrote it..


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## Druydess

Druydess said:


> I'll have to look for it- forgot where I wrote it..


Found it- it's message # 290 on this thread! :lol:


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## Ebzeenah

Druydess said:


> Being her owner, seeing her everyday, and also having seen her Dam and Sire personally, I disagree. as do the experts who've evaluated her.


 
I don't mean to be rude, but since your said experts have never seen and evaluated either KF Tsylent Legacy or Ha Le Fire in person, it really isn't possible for them to make such a determination.


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## Druydess

Just posted a few more pics of Solei in the pic section..


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## Ebzeenah

Whether or not she looks like her sire or dam, it does appear that Solei is following in her sire's hoofsteps:


This is from the very first show that Fire and I competed in - my first show in 35 years! Though second place was our highest placement, Fire made up for it in quantity.











We won so many ribbons at this show last year, that I forgot to put any of them on Fire's bridle to show off!












At least my husband remembered....












This is from the third show we competed in together, and a better attempt on both our parts to conquor Western Pleasure:













You can take the woman out of the English saddle, but you can't take the English saddle out of the woman.











Of course, Fire's true passion is endurance - he puts up with the show thing to apease me.





















Even though Fire is only shown and competed at an amateur level, his accomplishments certainly won't detract from Solei's resume.

And thanks so much to all who posted questions about her sire and dam early on in this thread. Your curiosity prompted me to finally get it in gear and organize some of Fire's accomplishments. I wish Legacy were still here for us to build her success as well, but that was just not meant to be. I guess Fire will just have to make up for it!


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## Ebzeenah

RealQuiet said:


> o my goodness! those two are SOO gorgeous! the OP is SO lucky her horse came out of such beautiful a dam and sire! I can see from the pics she DOES look just like them! wow, what a LUCKY owner to have the offspring of these two! I must say, she does look more like her sire than serafix, tho both are gorgeous I think their body types are abit different, meaning HLF, and Serafix.


Thanks so much for your kind words. I am just as proud of his progeny as I am of him - how could I not be? Yes, their body type is a bit different, but when you pair the color and the facial markings with the few body type similarities, I think you see a bit more of a resemblence. It is kinda cool that Fire has done things a bit in reverse: he sired his 8 progeny first, and now is having a go at showing and endurance. I am so in love with this horse, I can't begin to describe it. And then just months after we bought him to find out that his previous owner turned down an offer of $15,000 for him was just the icing on the cake. No amount of money could ever make me part with him.


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## Alwaysbehind

Druydess said:


> Being her owner, seeing her everyday, and also having seen her Dam and Sire personally, I disagree. as do the experts who've evaluated her.


So are you saying the photos you have posted of her that make the rest of us feel she does not resemble her sire are misleading or bad photos of her?


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## Ebzeenah

Celeste said:


> Dru, they are probably jealous. Your horses are beautiful!


I was just wondering what I have to be jealous of? I own Solei's sire and, as you can very plainly see, he has done quite well for himself.


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## Celeste

Beautiful horses!


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## Ebzeenah

Celeste said:


> Beautiful horses!


 
LOL! Thanks you, Celeste. Fire is my dream horse, I am so lucky that I found him.


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## Mike_User

You may have noticed that this thread was closed previously. We are not going to allow the several members who have a grudge against the OP for whatever reason to antagonize her unnecessarily to the point that her thread has to be closed, and have therefore reopened it. If you reply to this thread, your reply should be both on topic and in the spirit the thread was started with. 

If you're wondering "so now you're dictating what opinions can and cannot be shared?", the answer is that we tried for more than 32 pages worth of posts (many pages worth of posts have had to be removed) to allow members to comment and share their opinions regardless of what their opinions were with the hope that members who have an issue of some kind with the OP would exercise restraint. The result was that those who openly admitted to not caring for the OP used it as an opportunity to antagonize her with repeated thinly veiled - and not so thinly veiled - jabs. Some of you may not see it that way, but then none of you have spent hours and hours dealing with reports about the thread and editing and removing posts to try to keep the thread intact. If you have any doubt about how long certain members' participation in this thread has been problematic, and how long we have been trying to address issues with the thread, see the post I made a month ago earlier in the thread, http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeding/arlene-magid-write-up-92253/page24/#post1104199. 

Enough is enough. Anyone who wants to test our resolve better be prepared to take a break from participating here or lose their ability to participate altogether. One member has already been permanently banned.

It's unfortunate that hate has such a strong hold over some people, but no matter how hateful you are, the Horse Forum is not and never will be a platform for you to express it.

I ask that anyone who does reply to this thread not make reference to this post. The idea is for both "sides" to avoid provoking or antagonizing the other so that everyone can participate and discuss horses here _in peace_. If that's not what you're interested in, this is the wrong community for you.

If anyone has any questions, comments, or concerns about this post or the way this matter was handled, you are welcome to start a thread in the Talk to the Team forum.

Thanks for your cooperation and understanding,
Mike


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## Katze

Ach your horses are all lovely! You should both be proud to have them in your barn. I for one am looking forward to more pictures and updates!


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## Druydess

I'd like to thank everyone who has been so supportive of Solei, her progress, her training, and HER accomplishments. They have been hard earned and I have put much time, love, patience,training, and effort into making her the willing, well trained beauty that she is. It would be nice to return to the subject of this thread. She has earned the right to collect her due without interference. Other owners and their horses, in the interest of staying on topic and common courtesy, please start your own threads to discuss them.


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## Druydess

Today was a great training day with Solei, who is an amazingly intelligent mare. Follows without a lead, turns and backs with her handler, without a lead, and is so in sync with her person, it's like having a shadow.. I think I'll have to get together a video...
The trainer has never seen a horse so well trained to body language and subtle cues..
High praise indeed!


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## Celeste

Sshabecca, on the other hand, does not work like a shadow without a lead. Unless she knows you have a treat.........
I think that my work schedule really hurts her training. 
I am glad that your horse is doing so well.


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## Druydess

Celeste said:


> Sshabecca, on the other hand, does not work like a shadow without a lead. Unless she knows you have a treat.........
> I think that my work schedule really hurts her training.
> I am glad that your horse is doing so well.


Well it's been a few years of intensive training, so I'm sure Becca could do the same when you have more time.. Being a Vet, I am sure you have little time to spare.. PM me if you'd ever like some tips that work even with short sessions..


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## bubba13

hate to butt in since I wasn't invited and hope this is on-topic enough..... 

But it required training to get your horse to follow you around without a lead, and stop and back based on body cues? All six of mine will do that, and always have, without the slightest training. I discovered it entirely by accident. They'll pivot along with me and everything, and all for no reward. Guess it's just...I don't know? The "bond?" Scratch that. I think it's just horse and handler understanding and reading each other. Once they're focused on you and respect you, any horse will act in that manner.


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## Druydess

bubba13 said:


> hate to butt in since I wasn't invited and hope this is on-topic enough.....
> 
> But it required training to get your horse to follow you around without a lead, and stop and back based on body cues? All six of mine will do that, and always have, without the slightest training. I discovered it entirely by accident. They'll pivot along with me and everything, and all for no reward. Guess it's just...I don't know? The "bond?" Scratch that. I think it's just horse and handler understanding and reading each other. Once they're focused on you and respect you, any horse will act in that manner.


I believe this is off topic and nothing to do with Solei or her Write-up.


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## bubba13

Druydess said:


> Well it's been a few years of intensive training, so I'm sure Becca could do the same when you have more time.. Being a Vet, I am sure you have little time to spare.. PM me if you'd ever like some tips that work even with short sessions..


I believe this is off topic and has nothing to do with Solei or her Write-up.


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## HorseLovinLady

Congrats Dru!!


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## NdAppy

:? I think it is totally on topic since you brought it up in regards to her training. Mine all do the exact same thing. No special training involved in it. :? :-|


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## Druydess

HorseLovinLady said:


> Congrats Dru!!


Thanks Lady! She has been the star I always knew she could be since I first laid eyes on her. She actually put herself away today. (But she has done this before in truth) Pointed to the gate, took her halter off, pointed, said "Pasture" and off she went. This was a good 100 yards away.. Such a good girl..


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## WhoaNow

Consistency, time, and patience are so important.
I'm really looking forward to putting some time into my new guy this Fall:wink:.


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## Druydess

WhoaNow said:


> Consistency, time, and patience are so important.
> I'm really looking forward to putting some time into my new guy this Fall:wink:.


Those are the keys and it has made such a difference in Solei. She and her sister displayed such calm, well-behaved personalities. It all has to do with proper training.
How is your new guy?


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## WhoaNow

Druydess said:


> Those are the keys and it has made such a difference in Solei.
> She and her sister displayed such calm, well-behaved personalities.
> Their immediate family were irascible, so it was lovely to have such amenable horses- but it all has to do with proper training.
> *
> How is your new guy?*


He's good! 
I've let him go a bit the last month or so, from the heat.
I worked with him on the lunge today, and he really started to 'think' about things again.
I'm so looking forward to get back in the saddle this fall, and doing some trail riding:wink:.


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## Druydess

WhoaNow said:


> He's good!
> I've let him go a bit the last month or so, from the heat.
> I worked with him on the lunge today, and he really started to 'think' about things again.
> I'm so looking forward to get back in the saddle this fall, and doing some trail riding:wink:.


I know what you mean- we've slacked off a bit with the heat here- it's been brutal, but Magic is still in training for a show, so we train in the evening. Solei has off for a while as she'll be showing again a bit later..
I have my 2 young ones I'll be starting for pleasure and trail- I don't plan to show or breed them at this point..so they're kinda coastin'


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## WhoaNow

Druydess said:


> Today was a great training day with Solei, who is an amazingly intelligent mare.
> Follows without a lead, turns and backs with her handler, without a lead, and is so in sync with her person, it's like having a shadow..
> I think I'll have to get together a video...
> The trainer has never seen a horse so well trained to body language and subtle cues..
> High praise indeed!


Does your trainer do any breeding 'consulting'?


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## Druydess

WhoaNow said:


> Does your trainer do any breeding 'consulting'?


She does actually, and has been a huge help with learning on so many levels. She has bred and sold some fine Arabians, many overseas. She grew up with Bazy Tankersley's daughter (AL Marah) and learned quite a bit about breeding, and has taught m quite a bit this year, including assisting with in-hand breeding on her farm. Very interesting stuff.. And no- none of mine have been bred, before anyone asks.. lol
She is however, looking forward to plans for Magic and Solei, and though I have working relationships with some wonderful breeders who have interest in Magic and Solei, I will take her expert opinion to heart when it comes to making an excellent match. :wink:


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## Mike_User

Ebzeenah said:


> Whether or not she looks like her sire or dam, it does appear that Solei is following in her sire's hoofsteps:


You have a beautiful horse, Ebzeenah. I moved your additional posts about him to a thread of your own so that you can discuss him and share more pics, http://www.horseforum.com/horse-talk/ebneezahs-ha-le-fire-95875/. 



Druydess said:


> I believe this is off topic and nothing to do with Solei or her Write-up.


It was suggested that intensive training was required to get a horse to follow you, so I think a comment that it typically does not require intensive training is perfectly valid, though the post did lose a sentence it could stand to do without.


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## Druydess

A few pics of the Prissy One, from earlier this year- pasture condition.. 

Such a look...


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## Druydess

Looks like our show this weekend is off due to the hurricane.. have too many horses staying at home to not be there if it hits.. Fortunately there's another one soon..


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## Ebzeenah

Druydess said:


> Some of my lovely Arabian/Horse/Breeder friends told me how wonderful this site is, so I thought I'd come and share some recent news about one of my mares, Solei. Glad to be around great horsepeople!!
> 
> My Arabian, La Legacy de Solei, was recently the subject of a Write-up by the incomparable Arabian expert, Arlene Magid. I am so pleased with the wealth of information she has researched on my mare's pedigree. I learned so much more about her breeding, and the amazing stars in her lines. Would love any discussion about the old greats and favorite lines others admire..
> 
> I highly recommend Arlene Magid for future write-ups if one is interested in exploring pedigrees and getting great insight.
> 
> Solei is currently being trained in Hunter and will probably head toward Country Pleasure.


I see where Arlene Magid states: "HA LE FIRE is by regional halter winner and English pleasure champion, LE FIRE". Her write up would be more complete if she had also stated that Ha Le Fire is a halter winner and English pleasure winner besides being a LD endurance and CTR competitor. Since you do state that Solei is being trained in Hunter and heading toward Country pleasure, I would think her sire's accomplishments would only compliment Solei's future endeavors. 

I certainly hope she continues to do well. Perhaps she'll even compete against her sire in some future competition!

Best of luck!


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## Mike_User

Ebzeenah said:


> I see where Arlene Magid states: "HA LE FIRE is by regional halter winner and English pleasure champion, LE FIRE". Her write up would be more complete if she had also stated that Ha Le Fire is a halter winner and English pleasure winner besides being a LD endurance and CTR competitor. Since you do state that Solei is being trained in Hunter and heading toward Country pleasure, I would think her sire's accomplishments would only compliment Solei's future endeavors.
> 
> I certainly hope she continues to do well. Perhaps she'll even compete against her sire in some future competition!
> 
> Best of luck!












Thank you for flying Air Horse Forum. We hope you've enjoyed undermining our efforts to resolve or at least minimize the impact of the conflict between you and the OP for the last several weeks, and ignoring our repeated requests that you reserve discussion about your own horse for your own thread in light of it. Goodbye.


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## Druydess

Well- the hurricane has decided to visit elsewhere..so the show is back on..LOL!
Nothing like last minute plan changes!


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