# Critique my new horse... more pictures :)



## JumpingJiminy (May 2, 2012)

He's cuuuute, could use some fat and muscle on him. How old is he and do you plan on doing show jumping or what with him?


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## jenniferw (May 23, 2012)

JumpingJiminy said:


> He's cuuuute, could use some fat and muscle on him. How old is he and do you plan on doing show jumping or what with him?


Hey, Yes, I already do show jumping on him, he is incredible. he is 14 i bought him from a friend of mine, he is quite thin because of the stress of moving from place to place and having many different riders, but these are kind of old pctures. He already has such better muscle definition


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## Snizard93 (Oct 12, 2011)

I think that once he is muscled up he will be a handsome boy! :lol:


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Cute horse. 

2 things. He shouldn't be jumping in that condition. And holy too much hardware on his head.


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## Justina (Jan 9, 2013)

Forgive me if my remarks sound a bit harsh but - a Pessoa bit AND draw reins???... Whoah... I think both of you should to go back to the basics as that's where the problem lies if that much gear is the only way you can control him. Physically he is not fit to jump, either.
By the way - using draw reins will never allow you to get him onto a correct contact. From a biomechanical training point of view it is a completely useless and potentially harming training 'aid'.


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## Tangiest Illicitness (Aug 30, 2011)

Justina said:


> Forgive me if my remarks sound a bit harsh but - a *Pessoa bit AND draw reins*???... Whoah... I think both of you should to go back to the basics as that's where the problem lies if that much gear is the only way you can control him. Physically he is not fit to jump, either.
> By the way - using draw reins will never allow you to get him onto a correct contact. From a biomechanical training point of view it is a completely useless and potentially harming training 'aid'.


Pessoa, draw reins, AND a running martingale. Took me a minute to see the martingale under all the other junk. I agree with everything you said, and also want to add that I hope he's not being jumped with all the garbage on.


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## jenniferw (May 23, 2012)

Justina said:


> Forgive me if my remarks sound a bit harsh but - a Pessoa bit AND draw reins???... Whoah... I think both of you should to go back to the basics as that's where the problem lies if that much gear is the only way you can control him. Physically he is not fit to jump, either.
> By the way - using draw reins will never allow you to get him onto a correct contact. From a biomechanical training point of view it is a completely useless and potentially harming training 'aid'.


Im sorry everyone, but he is perectly physically capable of jumping. There is nothing wrong with him at all. I think if you could all see him jump you would be in shock.
There is no reason that he shouldnt be jumping, he is in perfect health and there is only a lack of muscle in his neck, he has the under muscle because he was ridden wrong for a long time. The drawing reins are only to buiild up that muscle, not to help him get on contact because he wont be able to ever gain that contact because he has been trained wrong for so long.


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## Justina (Jan 9, 2013)

Tangiest Illicitness said:


> Pessoa, draw reins, AND a running martingale. Took me a minute to see the martingale under all the other junk. I agree with everything you said, and also want to add that I hope he's not being jumped with all the garbage on.


Oh yeah, I completely missed it, I guess I was just cringing too much at the sight of the draw reins with the Pessoa...



jenniferw said:


> Im sorry everyone, but he is perectly physically capable of jumping. There is nothing wrong with him at all. I think if you could all see him jump you would be in shock.
> There is no reason that he shouldnt be jumping, he is in perfect health and there is only a lack of muscle in his neck, he has the under muscle because he was ridden wrong for a long time. The drawing reins are only to buiild up that muscle, not to help him get on contact because he wont be able to ever gain that contact because he has been trained wrong for so long.


Hmmm... I'm finding this explanation rather baffling as building neck muscles and using draw reins have nothing in common. Unless you want to build the muscle on the under side of the neck - then yes, it will do it, but your horse will be left with a moose type of neck which is short and stiff. 

You say that he has been ridden wrong for a long time -then how can he physically be fit for jumping? If a horse has had the wrong type of work this would mean that he, for e.g. is not muscled right, his back is tight, hindquarters disengaged, not responsive to the rider's aids and perhaps too 'crazy' or the opposite - too apathetic - as a result of his previous work. Now this to me sounds nothing like perfectly fit for jumping. I mean, he probably could (and most likely does) - but SHOULD he? 

Draw reins for muscle development - bad bad bad combo. Lunge to get him to stretch and lift his back, use cavalettis, straight lines and circles to get him in balance on the lunge and carry himself correctly. Lack of neck muscle is a reflection of his general muscle development, and when we try to tone and supple up our horses we don't do it bit by bit, e.g. back, quarters, neck or leg. It is done through a series of exercises that engages the whole body, develops and supples it.

When you choose things like draw reins for muscle building don't just listen to what someone told you. Try to think of WHY it does/doesn't do it and HOW it works. It all comes down to really basic biomechanics and anatomy of the horse. 

How have you decided that your horse is incapable of being retrained? It's a genuine question, I really am interested, as I have worked with problem horses for a long time and one way or the other it has always proven possible to reschool them. Even a 21 year old trotter


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## Justina (Jan 9, 2013)

It would be interesting to see a video of you two


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

I for one would like to hear the explanation as to WHY each piece of tack is being used?

As well on the skinny issue - I'm wondering if a vet has seen the horse and scoped for ulcers. Yes horses lose weight when they are stressed, but prolonged anorexia, or refusal to eat is definitely a sign that something is wrong either physically or diet wise. I would be quite concerned about his condition, and as others have pointed out, would not be doing more than light riding, and definitely not jumping!


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Here is an interesting article for you to look at http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...ZQANb2B4U0cxfIWG9Xaxw&bvm=bv.1357700187,d.aWM


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

I watched a video of you riding maybe a lesson horse that was in good shape. I trust after you have had this one a bit and with the help of your instructor that this horse will fill out and improve with time.


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## jenniferw (May 23, 2012)

Justina said:


> It would be interesting to see a video of you two


Alright, I can do that


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## Justina (Jan 9, 2013)

Great, it will be interesting to see how you two get along 
If you can film him moving on the lunge without any tack that would be even better.

Meanwhile check out that article Golden_Horse posted, it's quite good and explains a lot.


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## lacey123 (Jan 19, 2012)

Stuff like this blows my mind, this horse needs muscle EVERYWHERE. It kills me that all the gadgets you have stuck on this poor animal are what you think makes a horse gain muscle. There's absolutly no short cuts in good training, but man people sure do try don't they


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## BaileyJo (Aug 23, 2011)

The horse is really cute and appears to be very forgiving. Seems to have a pleasant expression in spite of all the things going on. That alone is worth a ton. 

IMO, you need to ditch it all when you ride and work on hills, lunging with loose bungee cords for a short time before riding to improve overall topline and a good diet. If he can jump well now (as you state) he will be exceptional if you build him up correctly. 

Like I said, he's very cute.


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## lovestruck (Dec 20, 2010)

Let's say you laid in a bed for 2 years. You got up to go to the bathroom and to the kitchen but then apart from that all you did for 24 hrs a day was watch TV and sleep. As well, all the food you ever got was low calorie, low protein. So here you are, a skinny, undermuscled individual.

Then one day I came to your house, threw on about 65 different items of running apparel, registered you for a 10 km run and chased you with a big stick everytime you slowed down.

THAT'S WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO YOUR HORSE!!! HOW you can possibly justify that and say that it's ok for him to jump (which is EXERTING for a horse!) is beyond me! Even a non-horsey person could logically connect the dots here. In order to undergo strenous exercise and come out of it fit, sound and healthy, an animal (human or otherwise) first has to be conditioned for it. An undermuscled human can't run 10k runs and come out uninjured. An undermuscled, underfed horse can't consistently be jumping and come out uninjured. At the very LEAST you are ruining any sort of partnership or bond that you could be developing with this animal. Every time you lead him into that jumping ring he hates you a little more (and you can use the "oh but he loooovves to jump!" line on some other unsuspecting sucker! Maybe he does love to jump! I love to run! But not if I'm hungry and unfit!).

Give him time and conditioning and I'm sure he'd be very cute. Keep doing what you're doing and he'll either go sour or lame before you even get to show season.

What's also beyond my understanding is how this clearly underfed, undermuscled horse needs SO much hardware to control him? How will he be when he's fed and has energy? Also, are you jumping in draw reins?? Draw reins can have a purpose in the right hands, but jumping in them in them is just going to unnecessarily catch your horse in the mouth and teach him that jumping = NO FUN.

Ugh.


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## BearPony (Jan 9, 2013)

He looks like a lovely horse! What a kind expression and I think he'll be quite lovely with some more groceries and muscle. There are lots of different schools of thought on how to best "re-feed" a skinny horse, but do some research on your own in addition to what your vet, trainer, etc. tell you and make sure that he is getting adequate protein and fat. For the hard keeping types this can make all the difference in the world.

I also think you've got way too much gear on his head. If you are not trying to jump or do intensive flat work, can you ride him in a simple snaffle (or perhaps just snaffle +martingale)? If you can ride him just fine doing simple exercises in the snaffle, but he is heavy or "difficult" when doing lots of trot work, lateral work, cantering or jumping, it is likely because he is simply unable to carry himself properly due to lack of muscling and the previous improper training you have mentioned. Please, please ditch the draw reins. They can only have the opposite effect from what you say that you want.

If this horse were mine, I would take a break from jumping him (but definitely would incorporate ground poles/cavelleti as he was ready for them) and would focus primarily on hacking out, with hill work if possible. I would ride him in the gentlest bit and with the lightest contact possible. If he felt unbalanced or like he was leaning/bracing, I would use downward transitions, halts and rein backs to rebalance him rather than using heavy rein aids. It is hard work, but if you are gentle, firm and consistent, you can intact retrain a horse to develop the correct musculature and learn to travel comfortably in the contact. Keep the sessions short at first and increase them in length as he becomes fitter.

I take the time to write all of this because he looks to be a kind horse, you look to be a kind rider and I hope you will consider what I and many other posters have written because it looks like you two could be a very nice pair if you were willing to take a bit of a different approach.


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