# Bit Help, Low Pallet, small mouthed horse.



## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Here is a pic showing how small the corners of his mouth are.


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## Fluffy Pony (May 2, 2010)

Wow. I dont have any suggestions... But thats the smallest couners ive seen on a horse that size. O.O
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Hehe, I know. He's a big guy too! It's weird.
He's a sweetheart though...maybe we'll just have to suck it up and skip a bit.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Hmm, looking at that picture, it makes me wonder how close the corners of his mouth are to the backs of his front teeth. There may not be enough room for a bit to fit in there and not bang his teeth without pulling him up into a joker grin. :?

Does he neck rein or do you need to direct rein him?


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

I wondered if the teeth were interfering too, smrobs.

Unfortunately he does not know how to neck rein, but he is a pretty quick study about most things.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

He does have a tiny little mouth, hu?


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I'm not sure that I would use the mechanical hack then. They can get pretty frustrating and confusing when you try to direct rein in them.

Mmmm, now I'm going to have to go out and browse .

Maybe one of those sidepulls with the doubled lariat nosebands. That way, you have the option for a little bit of bite should you need it.

Someday, when I have some money to burn, I am going to get one of these.
4 Plait Soft Rope Hackamore w/Flat Reins | NRS - National Roper Supply - Western Wear, tack, team ropes, horse tack, team roping ropes, bits...

Though they also come in a hard rope form, which is similar to a bosal but with more bite.
4 Plait Hard Rope Hackamore w/Flat Rein | NRS - National Roper Supply - Western Wear, tack, team ropes, horse tack, team roping ropes, bits...

I have found that one cheaper, but haven't been able to find the softer one.
Mustang Lariat Noseband Breaking Hackamore - Statelinetack.com


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

After some searching, I found something very similar to what Abby has (since the lady that made hers disappeared, I guess..).

LIME GREEN & BLACK Braided Bridle Complete Bitless Set | eBay

Just the noseband piece is just like what Abby has (though down really far, IMO). The nose knots have a little bit of bite if needed. Maybe message them and ask if they could just make the attachment piece?


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Thanks girls! I'm browsing.
Wow that lime green is LIME GREEN!!!

I don't know squat about hackamores, but that's good to know about not direct reining in them.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

OK, I know this is really pricey, but what about something like this?
Myler S Shank Neil Merrill Hackamore and Hackamores | EQUESTRIAN COLLECTIONS.COM


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## aspin231 (Mar 20, 2010)

^Any hackamore with shanks is meant to be used the same way as a curb- neck reining only.

I've written of the different types of bitless options many times before. Try checking my history and read a couple.
My horse doesn't take a bit very well either because of a mouth injury, so I've done a lot of research on the matter. Good luck.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

If Brandon picks up on things quickly, like you said, he could pick up neck reining without much trouble.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

I'd still suggest an "indian bosal", they sound super gimmick-y but in the event that Brandon shows that he does need work on his "brakes" they have the ability to really shut down a horse that wants to run. A sidepull like Po posted would be good too but sidepulls don't have any way to "force" a stop (in my limited experience) since they slide around the nose quite a bit. 
I think a hackamore like the one you posted, spooky, would still need to be neckreined, but I'm not 100% sure. 
Personally, I'd never use a mechanical hack on any horse just because they can be so harsh. I'm just afraid I'd do something wrong. And in my limited experience, they really don't have much finesse... I much prefer rope based sidepulls and cross under things... but that's just me. 

Hopefully that all makes sense, I'm posting from my phone. Haha
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Wallaby: Something like this one??

Indian Rope Bosal for Bitless Riding


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## aspin231 (Mar 20, 2010)

^Yes, like that one.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

^^Exactly like that! I should have given you a link, I'm sorry! 
In a perfect world, I'd wish for one that had a little bit thicker rope under the chin like this one: Indian Hackamore Bitless Bosal BLACK W/ CHOICE NOSE | eBay (I actually have one form that seller, only mine is glow-in-the-dark) but the one that you posted looked good too. I really liked how it had rings for the cross-under part to help facilitate a good release of pressure. I might actually get one of those that you posted, Spooky, I've been needing to get a new one... hahaha


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

The Indian thing is cool.

I'd also suggest you try a leather-nosed Little S hackamore (much better direct reining than your usual mechanical) or a jumping hackamore:


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

We have a horse almost exactly the same. Neurotic about bits, scarred tongue from an injury, low palate. 

We have tried lots of things, and he goes best in either an English mechanical hack with a wide fleecy noseband, or a myler level one snaffle. Nothing else have made him comfy like these.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Teeny mouth!
I will reply more later - some horses with injuries simply can't keep a bit comfortably. My suggestion is to get an equine dentist out to make sure nothing else is going on - they may have bit advice too. My first reaction is to try a Myler level 1 comfort snaffle with maybe a full cheek with keepers to keep the bit as steady as possible in the mouth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

I wondered why the saddle fitter didn't bring me a level 1 myler...the one she brought me was a level 2 short shank jobbie with a lot of tongue relief. Maybe that was her objective. It was sweet iron, but he hated it. :/
I will ask her to bring the full check (with bit keepers I assume?) next time she is out.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

Oooh, I like that leather hack. That looks really nice! 

Just keep trying. There is an answer out there for him even if it isn't a bit.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Can you direct rein with this? 
Trail-Rite Products: Bits & Hackamores - Hackamores - Little "S" Hackamore


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

spookychick13 said:


> Can you direct rein with this?
> Trail-Rite Products: Bits & Hackamores - Hackamores - Little "S" Hackamore



I'm guessing not, due to the shanks. :/


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

spookychick13 said:


> I'm guessing not, due to the shanks. :/


That's what I'd guess too. I think some people do direct rein in them (but there's always someone who does things "the 'wrong' way" haha) but from what I remember when someone posted a thread with pictures of the action of it (I'll go see if I can dig that up), the part that goes under the chin really dug into the chin when direct reined...

ETA: Here you go!  http://www.horseforum.com/horse-tack-equipment/my-little-s-bit-hackamore-66815/


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Hokay. 
Thanks.

Now I am having trouble picking out what I want. Ha.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I am going to suggest you use a small diameter, loose ring, sweet iron mouth snaffle. Don't put the reins on it. Put his halter on over his bridle and just take him for a walk. He needs to start packing it around. Allow him to graze with it on and be prepared to be entertained. Don't try to correct him, just let him deal with it. 30 min. is plenty. Do this daily for about a week. I suspect he's never been taught to give to a bit so that will be your next step-asking him to bend his neck side to side with only you littlest finger in the ring. It's not a pulling match, but gentle tug and release when he moves his head.


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

I agree with JDI about asking a vet/dentist about his teeth. If his teeth aren't in the way, and you don't want to go bitless, I'd do what Saddlebag said - although I would get something double-jointed and with a roller.

My mare also has a tiny mouth and will NOT tolerate any snaffle that's single-jointed or the least bit thick. I can go with or without a roller because she doesn't play with it too much anymore (she used to when she was younger). She does a lot better with curbs and is okay with most of them as long as they aren't too thick. Medium ports work best because she has a thick tongue as well as a low palate.

Something like this is what I would recommend for you:


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

My first thought is to go with a myler as it offers more of an arched conformity to the mouth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

I tried a few myler bits, level 1 and 2, snaffles and ports.
He is still nutty mcnutterson even without reins just standing around.

I am leaning towards bitless, I think.

I just have to decide what will work best for us...indian bosal, sidepull...shankless hackamore...or just a bitless bridle. My mom has this bitless bridle for her horse, I am going to try it out this weekend if the weather permits, just to see if he is alright with bitless or what. We'll stay in the round pen.

4th picture down:
Top Knot-ch Custom Tack - Home


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

...........and has anyone tried this?
Nurtural Horse: The Better Bitless Bridle


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Some horses DO play with a new tasting/feeling bit for the first few times it's in, just so you're aware. I wouldn't write a bit off (especially if it has copper) until you try it a few times.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

JustDressageIt said:


> Some horses DO play with a new tasting/feeling bit for the first few times it's in, just so you're aware. I wouldn't write a bit off (especially if it has copper) until you try it a few times.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Fair enough, but it's pretty relentless. Maybe I am being overly sensitive.

And getting him to even TAKE a bit is an enormous nightmare, he is REALLY uncooperative.

I rode him for 45 minutes to an hour in the bit he seemed to like best, and he was exactly the same as when we started, even hand walking him back up to the barn...chomp chomp chomp. He does that thing where they drop their head and stretch it out while gaping their mouth too. 

I will keep trying with the myler bit the fitter gave me. 


Maybe I just feel too sorry for him after I found out about the tongue injury from tying his head to his legs. That would be enough to make ME refuse a bit.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

I've tried the Nurtural, and I am not impressed with ANYTHING to do with their product (except the leatherwork done by my favorite local saddler.) The advertising campaign includes a lame horse and completely shoddy riding, the product itself has rubber on the noseband (which I find pulls hairs on the horse's nose making them uncomfortable, and o verall I had really really crummy experiences with the Nurtural dealers. I will not condone their product; I think there are better options out there. 
Oh, and the horse I tried in it went berserk when I used it. I rode him in a snaffle first (he went perfectly) - switched to the Nurtural and he exploded. I've never seen him act that way before or since. Put the snaffle back in and he was an angel again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Good to know! I'm scratching that option off the list.
I thought it seemed gimmicky.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

If you check out bits, usually D rings they often have small diameter mouth pieces. Have you checked his gums for inflammation?


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Yeah, his gums are fine, I just had a dental exam done in March, I am a vet tech, so I keep checking his mouth, but all I can see is the low palate and itty bitty mouth corners, etc. And the scar on his tongue.

No bar bruising either.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

I honestly would give a bit a few rides at least.... But heat just be more comfortable in something like a non-leverage hack. The leather, more English- type sidepull that Bubba posted is a great alternative. I might suggest avoiding any cross-under contraptions c
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RATHER BE RIDING (Dec 7, 2010)

I always rode my mare in a side pull. I liked it much better then the hackamore. I have never used the bitless bridles, as most of the complaints on those have to do with the crossover section under the chin not releasing like it should. I just don't think, at least for my horse, that all the "hug" stuff is necessary. I also did not like any of the rope halter/side pulls. I never could get them adjusted enough that they did not slide around on my horse's face. Right now, my side pull is simply a modified english bridle, but the one I like is at Schneider Saddlery. 

Billy Royal® Padded Nose Leather Sidepull in Sidepulls at Schneider Saddlery


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Hey, that is one small mouth!

I actually broke in a little QH with a slight parrot mouth last year and he had a similar issue with a small mouth/shallow palatte. Here's a pic so you can see his mouth, please excuse the headstall not being adjusted properly, I was just messing around with him bareback, you know how it goes :wink:









I tried him in a couple different snaffles initially and persevered for a while, but he was clearly uncomfortable. So I switched to something similar to the Indian Bosal posted earlier.

The change was instant and dramatic. A happier, more agreeable and easy to train horse you couldn't have asked for, practically broke himself in. As for brakes, well he stops on a dime. In fact after riding OTTB's for so many years he almost stopped me right out of the tack a couple times :lol:


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Geez Sarah, even when you are just messing aorund in the pasture, the horse is collected, "on the bit" and looking great!


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> Geez Sarah, even when you are just messing aorund in the pasture, the horse is collected, "on the bit" and looking great!


Aw shucks Tiny you are too sweet 

People think I am nuts (in real life, not on this forum) when I try to explain that collection comes from a correctly moving horse and can be done without gadgets heh


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Rode today with a sidepull, my friend let me try hers. SO MUCH BETTER, he actually listened to me and was relaxed/collected.

Whew.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

That's great news .

Yay, Brandon!!


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

That's so great! Congratulations!
That sounds exactly what Lacey was like the first time I rode her bitless. It's like "Say wuuuuutttt? Is this really my horse? Where did this nearly perfectly behaved critter come from??" :lol:
I'm so happy for you two!  

[and I took those pictures, I just have to get them off my camera still, haha]


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

My husband's horse rides in the Indian bosal - similar to the one at the link. He does extremely well in it. A little better brakes than he had in just the plain side pull we started his training in and overall very responsive. He is 6 and my husband has never had a regular bit in his mouth and he does so well in the indian bosal, it doesn't seem like he has any plans to change that either. 

My haflinger on the other hand was a bit stubborn in it out in the trails and while he would eventually listen it took more pressure than I liked. On the other hand, my boy does better in a regular rawhide bosal. Go figure. So it really depends on the horse, but I would say its worth a shot.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

JustDressageIt said:


> Some horses DO play with a new tasting/feeling bit for the first few times it's in, just so you're aware. I wouldn't write a bit off (especially if it has copper) until you try it a few times.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Totally agree!

A horse mouthing the bit for the first couple of rides does not mean they do not like it.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

It wasn't just mouthing, it was chomping, evading and obsessing.
Trying to get behind it, trying to get his tongue over it, etc.
It was distracting and annoying and about 1/2 hour fight just to get the bit in his mouth. I'm not coddling him or anything, he's actually visually distressed about a bit. You can see the huge scar on his tongue from the bit 'mishap' before I got him.


Yesterday was much better without a bit.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

Then roll with it spooky. You have plenty of time to get him used to a bit if that is what you choose. If you have something that works, run with it. 

Sidepulls are great. I have one in a box somewhere that is the rawhide noseband type. I just wrapped that puppy in vet wrap to soften it up a bit. It is a nice break from a bit.


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## GoWithTheFlow (Mar 9, 2011)

(I know old post but still)  Since he likes the sidepull , why not have a pretty one . I love Moss Rock Endurance !

Sidepull - Moss Rock Endurance - Your Source for Custom Biothane Competitive Tack


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## DejaVu (Jul 6, 2011)

Ermmmm. Wow. 

I have no idea what to say other than, I can see how he doesn't like most bits. I honestly wouldn't even try any more bits with him. I personally don't know of any shape that wouldn't interfere with his teeth in some way. 

Maybe start working on neck reining, and in the meantime, start working him in a halter and lead... I just don't know.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I believe the OP has gone to a Dr. Cooks bitless bridle and her horse seems to like it.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Alwaysbehind said:


> I believe the OP has gone to a Dr. Cooks bitless bridle and her horse seems to like it.


True! Sorry, been busy with work.

Both Brandon and I are really liking the Dr. Cook's so far!
It looks pretty snazzy too.


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