# Stubben saddle measurement



## DreamComeTrue (Jul 31, 2011)

Hello! I am looking to buy this stubben saddle, my horse needs a med/wide or wide tree saddle and the stubben sizes run funny, not to mention i do not how to decipher how big a tree in a saddle is by a measureing tape, help please! i need your tack expertise ASAP can someone help!


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## calicokatt (Mar 5, 2012)

If you want a medium/wide tree you want a 31 in a stubben, a 32 is a wide. 
That number will be stamped into the little piece of leather that covers the billets on the right side of the saddle, just below the serial number. As soon as I find a measuring tape, I'll measure my 31 and my 32 and let you know.


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## calicokatt (Mar 5, 2012)

I forgot my 31 is at my mom's in her trailer waiting to come down with the horse it will be used on for a show on Saturday. I can measure it then if you're not in a hurry. My 32, measuring as close to exactly how she did in the picture, measures the same as the one in the picture.


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## DreamComeTrue (Jul 31, 2011)

thats fine im not in that big of a hurry, thanks for your reply! so your thinking this is a wide?


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## calicokatt (Mar 5, 2012)

I think so, but I'd have to check the gullet measurement on the 31 to see how much difference there is. Because of where she placed the measuring tape, not starting exactly at the end, its a little difficult to be exact.


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## unclearthur (Feb 25, 2012)

Sorry, chaps, but from the pic that's nowhere near a wide. In any case, to my knowledge in the older Stubben sizing 29 was MW and 30 was wide, and that looks like it might be an old Seigfried to me. And 29 looks about it, which in modern parlance is barely a medium. Though, of course, the picture might be deceptive.

Before they started putting widths on buckle guards they had a habit of stamping the tree size in the upper rear corner inside the offside sweatflap, just below where it's stitched to the panel, so it might be worth checking there. And measuring across the gullet like that only gives a very rough guide, even when keeping to a fixed point, as you have tried. Handmade kit like this has few real 'standards' (headnail position always varies, for example).

I hope it does fit, but it's always worth being aware of possible snags


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## calicokatt (Mar 5, 2012)

I can't be sure about the older saddles not being the same width, as both of the saddles I have now are relatively new. But one of them was bought when an old one wore out, we bought the same tree size and it fits. (not sure HOW old, but it wasn't new when I got it 21 years ago). That would be the 31, which is definitely a med/wide. I just checked their website, and as of now my numbers are correct, a 31 is a med/wide and a 32 is a wide. 

Interesting about the change in placement of the tree size stamp, uncleararthur. And I had heard that the newer Stubbens tend to be narrower than the old ones, what's your experience with that? A few people have told me that they don't like Stubbens because they're too narrow, but we haven't had that problem at all...


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Yeap, that saddle is not a wide. The way it is measured it is showing as a 6 inch gullet which is normally a medium. I have no idea about measuring with Stubbens but I know what is considered a wide can vary by maker. Just measure your horse then measure each saddle.


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## unclearthur (Feb 25, 2012)

calicokatt said:


> I can't be sure about the older saddles not being the same width, as both of the saddles I have now are relatively new. But one of them was bought when an old one wore out, we bought the same tree size and it fits. (not sure HOW old, but it wasn't new when I got it 21 years ago). That would be the 31, which is definitely a med/wide. I just checked their website, and as of now my numbers are correct, a 31 is a med/wide and a 32 is a wide.
> 
> Interesting about the change in placement of the tree size stamp, uncleararthur. And I had heard that the newer Stubbens tend to be narrower than the old ones, what's your experience with that? A few people have told me that they don't like Stubbens because they're too narrow, but we haven't had that problem at all...


You're right about modern Stubben tree sizes. They match other manufacturers' continental widths. But the older trees are/were narrower. We have the same situation with Cliff Barnsby - one of their saddle makers once told me they often had to shave the inside edge of the older design tree rails, before applying the leatherwork, to achieve a sensible gullet width.

Because widths are measured at the limit of the tree point (so I'm told, though who really knows?), the problem with width is sometimes due to the use of flared-out points, the idea of these being to allow increased freedom of movement behind the shoulder. What they mostly do is cause problems, the saddle either being fitted based on the point width, when it's too narrow higher up, or based on the head width, when the wider points can cause the saddle to rock as if too wide.

I'm not sure why modern Stubbens should fit narrower than their older counterparts - I'd say the opposite was true. Unless they've used an old tree design in a newer model; quite possible if they wanted to cut down on development and production costs. 

As far as I know they're still producing Seigfrieds with the old tree. Thank goodness the modern seat foam is a lot more comfortable


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## calicokatt (Mar 5, 2012)

So assuming the saddle she's interested in is a Seigfreid, and the tree hasn't changed in recent memory, would the gullet measurement still be the same? Or has the gullet changed even though the tree hasn't? Or maybe something else I'm not thinking of? Both of my saddles are Seigfrieds, one is a cs and one a vsd. 

I recently did some reading on gullet sizes in Western saddles, as one of the girls who rides in my club is needing a new Western saddle. The conclusion that I came to was that (at least in Western saddles) there is no standard gullet measurement that denotes width of the tree. I saw saddles that were FQHB (full quarter horse bars) with measurements the same as or smaller than Semi QHB... It seemed to vary by maker.
Is this the same in English Saddles? (I don't know because I've always only bought stubbens) If it is the same, does the gullet measurement vary among saddles of different type, by the same maker? Or does it just vary by the maker? 

Ok, done playing 20 questions, for now! :lol:


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## unclearthur (Feb 25, 2012)

calicokatt said:


> So assuming the saddle she's interested in is a Seigfreid, and the tree hasn't changed in recent memory, would the gullet measurement still be the same? Or has the gullet changed even though the tree hasn't? Or maybe something else I'm not thinking of? Both of my saddles are Seigfrieds, one is a cs and one a vsd.
> 
> I recently did some reading on gullet sizes in Western saddles, as one of the girls who rides in my club is needing a new Western saddle. The conclusion that I came to was that (at least in Western saddles) there is no standard gullet measurement that denotes width of the tree. I saw saddles that were FQHB (full quarter horse bars) with measurements the same as or smaller than Semi QHB... It seemed to vary by maker.
> Is this the same in English Saddles? (I don't know because I've always only bought stubbens) If it is the same, does the gullet measurement vary among saddles of different type, by the same maker? Or does it just vary by the maker?
> ...


Yup - the problem is the same for English saddles. It's a constant nightmare. Part of it is to do with tree shape as I mentioned before.

As far as I know you have the old tree shape. I say this because on Tuesday this week I adjusted a relatively new Siegfried CS for a customer - forward cut/square cantle, right? 

This particular saddle was a 29. The horse was a TB which needed a medium, in my estimation. I don't carry a set of card 'standard' wither shapes any longer for the simple reason 'standard' doesn't mean very much. (Problem is that working by eye makes me as bad as the saddlemakers!)

Anyway, the saddle fitted fine after the adjust, yet by the sizings you've indicated it should have been a half-tree too tight. If 31 equates to MW it should have been a 30. My only query would be whether Stubben supply a different tree for the US market? 

So I'm afraid the answer to that sizing question is - I don't know!

Physical gullet width usually depends on a combination of factors. As well as the tree width it's affected by a narrow or wide waist (twist) as well as panel width (narrow panel gives proportionally wider gullet) and thickness (deeper panel gives proportionally narrower gullet as it collapses under load). Sorry if that's not over-helpful, but as usual with horses more than one factor comes into play. And again, there's no such thing as 'standard'.

I often hate saddle-fitting - it's the most frustrating job I've ever done.

But also the most rewarding.


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## DreamComeTrue (Jul 31, 2011)

its a Krefeld but thank for the help guys, the lady i was planing on purchasing it form informed me she thinks its a med narrow.


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## Rachel1786 (Nov 14, 2010)

Are you looking to buy used Stubben? I'm selling my Wotan, tree is a 31.5CM. It's a med/wide but it's too narrow for my wide mare.


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## unclearthur (Feb 25, 2012)

Rachel1786 said:


> Are you looking to buy used Stubben? I'm selling my Wotan, tree is a 31.5CM. It's a med/wide but it's too narrow for my wide mare.


 
31.5? 

See what I mean - sizing's a nightmare.


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