# critique my fat horse



## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Despite critiquing many others' horses I have never been brave enough to submit my own. Partly because I am a poor and reluctant photographer. As you can tell. However these might be enough to go on. 

The first photo is of Brooke at age four; I had just been given her and she had never been ridden. Just for comparison.

The others are from yesterday. She is nearly nine now. I know she is too fat. She is 14.2 hands, purebred but unregistered Morgan of unknown parentage.

What I see is that she has more of a dip behind her withers now (although the photos exaggerate it). Of course she has more wither, which accentuates that. The last pic, taken after she had been rinsed off after a trail ride, is closer to how her back really is. Her shoulder could have more slope to it although there's nothing really wrong with it. On the other hand she has many strengths -- good straight legs, a long smooth hip, an elegant neck. 

And she's really fat.


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

imo, I don't think she is too awful fat. She doesn't look fully matured in her four year old picture, and now, she looks fully grown, but out of condition.

I personally don't care for her neck attachment, it just kinda 'turns into' her chest all of a sudden, rather than being a clean attachment. This could change with conditioning.

I LOVE her hip, looks like she has a very good motor!

Nice straight legs as you said, but I would like more substance on her fronts particularly. Her front legs look tiny compared to her hind, but that could also be because of the angle of the photos.


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## rambo99 (Nov 29, 2016)

I like her a lot looks very sturdy well built horse. She has a elegant look about her. Yeah a little fat but winter is coming doesn't appear to be overly fat..just extra fluff. I'd have no problem owning her she's beautiful.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

ClearDonkey said:


> imo, I don't think she is too awful fat. She doesn't look fully matured in her four year old picture, and now, she looks fully grown, but out of condition.
> 
> I personally don't care for her neck attachment, it just kinda 'turns into' her chest all of a sudden, rather than being a clean attachment. This could change with conditioning.
> 
> ...


Her fronts are fine, actually. Must be the angle. She does have a big butt. It is true that the flab will come off as soon as the weather gets cold. Still not used to that phenomenon. She is out of shape. It's not been a good summer for riding, sadly. I am not sure what you mean about her neck attachment though.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

There is a huge difference in maturity from first to last picture.
She grew into herself, not so gangly.

To me she is to fat...
She has pads of fat where she should not, carrying to much on her frame everywhere but you know that already.
She is a nice, really nice looking horse first off and please do not be offended by what I write of.
She has a pretty face, nice eye shape and placement, along with her ears being sculpted and placed well on her skull.
A face not to long nor to short, wide and flat forehead, it fits her body.
I see a hind leg set that makes her sickle hocked tendency.
However, I think in Morgans it is desirable as they are a driving horse and this works for pulling.
She has a lovely hip and hindend and bet a smooth pushing motor.
Her right front leg appears to have a slight, slight toe-out seen in front looking picture from the knee.
All her side-view pictures she appears to stand with her 4 legs slightly under her, not on the "corners" of her body.
I think her looking belly heavy emphasizes her back looking dropped, but it is not in actuality.
She is big barreled, big belly, to me long-backed and with the weight hanging it tricks the eye..
She is a beautiful animal, carries traits of the Morgan breed and I can imagine how versatile and handy she is and smart.
We had a Morgan when I was a child...my dad bought him for my mom cause she loved to look at him.
He was to much horse for me and he was a show horse,_ literally._
Dad sold him a few weeks after purchased to a group of people who owned a show barn...
That horse took his rider to the National Horse Show held in Madison Square Garden doing children's hunter and placed very high in rankings if they did not win first place {so long ago I don't remember}
That horse though was only 15 hands and built much as your mare....beautiful, just beautiful as your horse is.

You know all comments _are_ just opinions... :|
My opinion is your mare _*is*_ a really nice, nice horse to own, ride and spend time with. 
:runninghorse2:...
_jmo..._


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

yes I agree she is a little long backed too. And even when she is not overweight she takes a wide tree. 

What I really appreciate about her is her steady forgiving temperament. She is a bossy, opinionated, dominant mare (queen of every herd she's ever been part of), and she is not bomb-proof by any means, but considering that I hadn't ridden for 40 years when I got her, just got a 60-ride start put on her and then took off down the trail, she's a pretty good horse.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I agree she mostly just needs conditioning, I would try and build up/keep her topline as I suspect it will be more and more of a problem as she ages.

I also noticed she doesn't really seem to want to stand square, I suspect it's just her preference and candid photos but as you know it can be a sign of something not right.

She's such a pretty girl! Nicely built!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Have not read all the replies.
I think she's what I'd call 'typey' of a Morgan. Many Morgans have that smooth body build that doesn't show a lot of muscle development and tends to carry a bit more fat under the skin. But, she IS overweight, without a doubt.


I like how her neck ties in, and it's length balances the longer torso. 

She has nice hock angles, with relatively low hocks, but even lower knees, with short canons. But, her front right leg is a wee bit crooked, angling out a bit .


Her hips is well angled and sized. The dip behind the withers could be just genetics. She may be destined for lordosis. I'm not sure how one can tell, but it's basically genetic, isn't it? There was a Morgan at our farm who had been a show horse. HE was a spirited horse , lovely liver chestnut, and was a firecracker out on the trails, up to 32, when he colicked. He had lordosis, and required special pads to make his saddle fit.


I agree that she is pretty and well formed for real use.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

She is overweight, but very shiny! Her top line will improve with more riding. Attractive lady.


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## Bombproof (May 20, 2015)

When I look at a horse's conformation, the question I always ask is, "Do I see anything that is likely to cause problems with fitness or performance?" Overall she's a lovely horse, one I would be happy to have. She does look a little long-backed which is unusual for a Morgan, but horses vary. It's something to keep an eye on, but I've seen plenty of horses with long-ish backs perform for decades with no problems whatsoever. Truth be told, most horses in the United States are overweight and under-fit because they don't really have a job like their ancestors did. Probably with some work the fat would disappear and the fitness would take care of itself.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Nice Avna! She looks put together very well, aside from being out of shape.

In the second pic in the stable lane, she looks a bit uncomfortable, hind legs under her, she looks to be rump high & her back has 'dropped' quite a bit from the first 4yo pic. But it doesn't appear that way in later pics, so I guess that's all just picture angle.

She is lots too fat though, as HLG pointed out in detail. I think you're well aware of that & of health probs because of it, so just manage well & allow her to use up those fat stores over winter, so she can go into spring nice & trim.



rambo99 said:


> Yeah a little fat but winter is coming doesn't appear to be overly fat..just extra fluff.


Bit confused by that tho - thought it was summer over there & don't see 'fluffy' in the least.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

@loosie . . "fluffy" is a kind way of saying 'fat'.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Oh OK. So Rambo meant not overly fat, just extra fat?? Which is OK because winter is 'coming' in another 4 months?


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

loosie said:


> Oh OK. So Rambo meant not overly fat, just extra fat?? Which is OK because winter is 'coming' in another 4 months?


I was sort of shocked by the photos myself (your eye plays tricks on you) and she is getting worked more as a result. 12 hilly miles 2 days ago and 8 today. A lot of trotting. She may not get thinner, but she will get harder.

Cold weather comes in some time in October in western Massachusetts, so I have about six or seven weeks of above freezing night temps left, if we are average this year. 

We get serious winter. I had to feed Brooke a lot of extra concentrates to keep her ribs from showing last winter. 

Last winter my house:


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^Yeah, when you're concerned about keeping her ribs from showing, that means she will go into Spring already fat... Don't forget, if they're 'well covered' on the outside, there's a lot more fat that you can't see, around internal organs. And it is GOOD for animals(us too) to have regular 'hard seasons' to use up the fat stores, 'reset' the metabolism & body's insulin sensitivity. Just getting overweight is not necessarily problematic for health, but retaining it long term, never using up the fat stores is extremely bad for us(whatever our species).

So... I would definitely NOT be feeding extra concentrates & trying to keep her fat through winter. I would feed her extra only if/when she lost _too much_ & became thin.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Yes and no loosie, I completely agree with the sentiment however we do have hard winters and it can be important to keep ahead of weight loss. I don't let my horses get fat cause "winter's coming" but I do start upping their feed to maintain a consistent body weight at times that they need it, or in my Icelandics case upping in the summer (she has sweet itch and drops weight dramatically in summer all winter she is huge ****). So for a horse that may lose too much I don't necessarily wait until that point and then try and play catch up.

I agree in this situation though that's not the concern, let her lose and get lean.

And I know Brooke isn't used to this climate yet but you really shouldn't need to up feed until December or so, if that the past few years with the mild winters.. I'm guessing that picture was NOT taken in October, that's only just fall, I agree that "winter is coming" is a little melodramatic, at SOME POINT it will be here lol definitely no need to have a horse fat now in preparation of possible cold in several months. Unless you have a super sensitive horse then feed what's in front of you. MAYBE in January or something she may need some extra.

Also @Avna completely understand on the pics!! I remember when we first brought my Arab home many years ago and put him on pasture in the spring. Took some nice pics to show my trainer (where he was boarded over the winter) and her response was "AHHHHH!!!!!" I said "what? He looks great!" looked at the pics and went "AHHHHHH!!!!!" myself he was HUGE! We weren't used to him yet and hadn't dropped his feed down dramatically enough when putting him on grass and he was fat as a tick (way worse then Brooke! lol)! Didn't even occur to me until I saw it with "outside eyes".


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

It was Brooke's first real winter in her life last year (and mine). She went into last winter just a little pudgy, not like now. I normally only feed hay and a vitamin/mineral supplement, and she could not keep her weight on, despite blanketing. You could see her ribs coming up, by December. 

It is colder here than at @Yogiwick's place, we are higher up and further inland. It hit twenty below (-29 C) every night for a couple weeks, and we started feeling like ten below was a perfectly usable day, and zero was warm. 

She is going into winter fatter this year but I expect I will still be adding concentrates by midwinter. Last April she was a perfect weight, and looked wonderful. I was all set to put in a lot of miles this summer. Then Pippa broke her leg.

Because Pippa's leg took all my care and time, and I did not dare get her agitated by taking Brooke out for long, Brooke sat mostly idle for most of the summer -- I only was able to start riding strenuously in late July. So it isn't surprising she is both out of shape and overweight.


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## Just an equestrian (Jul 20, 2019)

From my inexperienced perspective I think she has a great build. She looks a lot like my thoroughbred when I first got him all fat and hair! But with all the right training and correct diet she will look amazing I recon! 

Here’s the before and after photos of me horse, sorry about the quality of the second one!


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## rambo99 (Nov 29, 2016)

@loosie, being where we get really brutally cold winters,you don't want to let them get thin middle of winter. Really hard to get weight on them when highs are 10 below zero ,lows 25 to 30 below at night. Then add wind chills in that of even 50 below that takes a toll on a horse.

Yes Brooke is fat could be trimmed down,there's a real fine line on how trim /thin you go when cold will be here sooner than later. Here in MN October can get cold windy stay below,freezing for day time highs...so maybe only a little over a month before cold sets in. Winters come long before January usually have snow on the ground that stays by November first part of it.

I've had a horse lose weight middle of winter & get real thin. You can feed all the concentrates you want have hay 24/7 and no weight is gained. That's blanketed with liners and 2 blankets on,so I'm in the keep them with a little extra going into winter then thin.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Rambo you have a far worse climate then we do in MA, we are also on an uphill trend of more mild winters very consistently for several years now. Last year we had some unseasonable cold (daytime negative temps) in November then it warmed up again, but it is not normal for it to be consistently negative temperatures, especially not during the day, until the Holidays if at all the past few years. I can imagine the strange fluctuations we had last year didn't do anything to help a Californian horse acclimate!

Just saying one size doesn't fit all. I think Brooke's biggest challenge is not being adapted to this climate yet, I completely agree with not playing catch up mid winter but it sounds like Avna has a good plan to get her at a consistent weight before then. I don't think there is any harm to losing a healthy amount of weight in August. I'm curious as Brooke gets acclimated if she doesn't keep weight better during the winter. I don't think loosie was advocating to let her get super thin regardless.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Stayed tuned, I will return to this thread with photos if she ever gets in shape!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I think "in shape" is the icing on the cake with her, the build is already there!


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

As far as conformation critique, I'm just going by what I'd consider if buying the horse. 
It's different if you've already ridden the horse for awhile, because then you know which traits the horse can actually make up for by a willing temperament and athleticism.

She is a lovely mare, with a nice bloom to her coat. Looks very healthy. As was mentioned, just a bit of extra fat padding over the rump and behind the shoulder in particular. 

The faults I would notice if buying the horse are the long back, and the shoulder and croup angles don't match. From what you say, you've already noticed that her shoulder is a bit steep while her croup is not. If her steep shoulder does not create choppy movement that's great. If I had to choose, I'd rather that she had a nicely angled hip rather than having it steeper to match her front end. 

Although she has a long back, the view from above down onto her back seems to show well developed back muscles. 
If I remember right, you are a light rider, and I am sure she carries you easily and well. Some of her potential issues would have an impact with a heavy rider, but not with a lighter one.


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## autumn rain (Sep 7, 2012)

I think she is lovely. Looks like a nice foundation type Morgan. She may be a little fluffy, but Morgan’s do tend to have that smooth rounded look. She doesn’t look crusty from your pictures, so that is a good thing. Just love a sturdy little Morgan with the stamina to do whatever you want with her!


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

I am not good at critiquing but I have to say I find her quite lovely. The extra fat is not a deterrent to me as I (along with others here) live in a climate that is prone to harsh winters. From late Dec to Mid April last winter we had unusual amounts of snow and frigid temps (wind chills at -50F) My horses are starting their "the starving time is coming" eating pattern. I have not increased any grains or night time hay but they are all eating every single tid bit I put in front of them - and this is fairly unusual as they get plenty of pasture during the day and have been only eating the choicest bits of hay over night and leaving me a mess in the morning. I find the extra padding going in to winter a good insurance policy.

I would gladly welcome Brooke to my herd anytime.


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