# Is anyone growing or feeding fodder?



## jaydee

Do you mean some sort of Hydroponic unit?
They were very popular in the UK for a while then seemed to fizzle out quite a lot as there were problems with salmonella related to the watering system


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## FlyGap

Yeah, I see that.
Mainly the problem is with re-circulating the water, which just isn't a good idea because of the starches. Promotes mold and bacteria in the lines. That and the grains are fertilized with chicken manure.

I'm thinking about doing it in large tubs (add as little as possible peroxide/bleach) that will percolate down into the next, then throw it out/water trees.


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## jaydee

I don't know about that - could work 
I knew someone years ago that had a livery (boarding) yard that bought a unit and had no trouble with it at all - we did buy some off him once for a horse we bought in the winter that was really thin and had a sore mouth - went down really well!!! He used barley I think
My DH gets very excited about these sort of things - he was looking at something like it in a catalogue not long ago but we don't really have the right conditions or place to do it here


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## deserthorsewoman

Im very interested in this, too. My concern would be using grains. Sugar/starch content mainly. 
Somebody is constantly advertising the system on CL here. So I'll be lurking;-)


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## FlyGap

I've spent the past three months REALLY digging into it. JD I love these kinds of projects too! I don't want to be at the mercy of my feed store any longer, and I "think" I can grow enough BOSS and wheat myself... In the future.

As far as I can tell wheat is the easiest and safest route. Oats are terrible because they're too starchy. 
BOSS is excellent for additional nutrients, but not a primary.

I'm going to get one of those metal racks from WM, HD, BL, or where ever they're on sale. Drill holes in 12X24 or so plastic tubs, just on one end. Then shim so they are set at an angle, one tub drains into the next in 15 mins (which seems to be the magic number). Eventually the water drains into a tub at the bottom that I can toss out. Water 2 times a day.

I've read about mold problems. The best route is when initially soaking add a tablespoon of bleach (the drinkable kind, not cleaning) or peroxide to kill any spores on the grains. If you do the self water method and keep everything SUPER clean at 55 to 70 degrees you "shouldn't" have a problem in a moderately well ventilated room.


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## jaydee

I'd love to ask my DH about this idea you have but I daren't or I'll never get the work inside my barn finished
H2O Farm - Fresh nutritious sprouting barley fodder everyday. Reliable low cost hydroponic fodder systems benefiting horses, cows and sheep.
This is a link to a UK site that uses barley


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## deserthorsewoman

I found a couple of sites of systems, and also DIY, one says grass seeds work too. I will try, I guess, small, and get analysis done. Don't want to risk anything with my IR horse.


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## jaydee

If this link works - on page 11 - I think that's right it does seem to say that the sugar levels are higher in the barley grass grown this way
http://affordablefeed.com/PDFs/Fodder%20Feeds%20Inc_IntroUpdated.pdf


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## deserthorsewoman

Thanks jaydee. I was pretty sure this was the case. Hence the grass seed idea. Timothy, fescue and brome grass was mentioned. I would for sure test.


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## FlyGap

It's really hard to determine which is best, especially for horses. I've seen flax, quinoa, alfalfa, bermuda, etc mentioned. I have some bookmarks saved with nutritional info for some, unfortunately most places don't give sugar contents.


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## deserthorsewoman

Does it have WSC, ESC and starch, by any chance?


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## Saddlebag

Be careful feeding horses sprouted grains. All your horses need is decent quality hay, preferably timothy if they mainly hang about and are ridden occasionally.


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## Left Hand Percherons

A friend moved to a barn that has an elaborate fodder system and offers either a straight fodder diet or for an extra fee 50/50 with hay. She (the friend) finds the horses that are on the straight fodder eat it too quickly and are ravenous at meal time. I ran some #s for her and determined that the horses needed 90# of straight fodder a day to meet their caloric needs (the equivalent of 25# of grass hay). Much much more than the fodder people are saying they need and much much more than her BO is feeding. I don't know where my #s are but if my #s are correct, it can never be cheaper than hay. It's also a ton of work and takes a fair amount of space to grow what you need. You are working 3-4 days out so you will have a 3-4 day supply sprouting at all times. Personally, I would do it for a chicken treat in the winter but never for the horses.


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## FlyGap

Thanks for that LHP, I bet they are starving! Mine get free choice hay, this would be a supplement to that.

Our hay is decent but not adequate, especially after the drought. We are working on getting the fields back but it'll take another year. Was going to feed just a balancer but then have to add vit A and protein etc...

This is primarily for the chickens. I'm going to grow the BOSS, we are going organic and NGMO here. If its too much trouble, or isn't safe I won't feed it to the horses.
Not about to kill em.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Left Hand Percherons

Flax gets slimy from what I read.

I'm going to get a few small squares of high end alfalfa for the chickens this winter. Just put the bale out so they can use it as a jungle gym. You shouldn't have any problems finding non GMO alfalfa.

I ran the #s again and if anyone is wondering how I came up with those #s get your calculator out: (I rounded up my numbers to make it easier)

Fodder is 17% dry matter (DM)
It has 11.8 Mjoule /Kg DM
1 Mj= .25 Mcal 
Average maintenance horse needs 25 Mcals/day
1# of seeds "grows" to 6# of fodder.
One more steps says I need 15.7# of seeds to start with.
That's 1/3 of a 50# bag....


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## deserthorsewoman

I can see it as a treat or replacing some or all of the grain with it. The energycontent in DM is close to oats(12.2MJ/kg if I remember right). 
I can imagine it for dairy cows very well, tho. Horses....not as a sole ration.


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## jaydee

The person I knew in the UK that grew it fed it as a complete hay replacer with no problems - but he had invested in a purpose built unit and only kept competition horses and (fox) hunters
I can see in areas where hay & grass is scarce or really expensive it could be a good long term investment


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## FlyGap

I read that with the addition of decent hay they should be fed around 10 to 20 lbs of fodder daily to replace feed. I'd only be feeding 10 a day as a supplement for protien/vits, my hay is only going to have 10%+\- this year but they will have it 24/7.

A pound of seed makes around 7 lbs of fodder.
So you'd be getting around 350 lbs from a 50 lb bag.
So if I fed 30 lbs of fodder to 3 horses a day that 1 bag would last me about 12 days.
That isn't too shabby. Hmmmm...

I use to have enough pasture to last the mild winters here with free access hay/minerals as the only addition to their diet. Here at the "new" farm I only have 15 good acres that won't carry them through. I don't like it because my horses have always been so fat and happy, but last year the hay was crap and I hated feeding grain to keep them looking sharp. Honestly I don't like grain period.
Horses need grass and minerals period for the most part.

Still considering alfalfa pellets instead though, wonder how much organic ones are, or if they are even available? Better than fodder? 
I use their manure on the garden and want organic.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## deserthorsewoman

They're less work for sure lol. I've never seen any organic a- pellets, only certified weed free. And those are most likely not organic lol. But, they're thoroughly analyzed ..lol. For the fodder I found only protein content and minerals mentioned, but without numbers. And you're still feeding grain....kind of.


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## jaydee

Once it snows here we don't see any green stuff that's worth anything until May - sometimes the end of May so it might be nice to have something 'fresh' to feed
I think the cost of growing organic feed for horses would make it very expensive to buy - keeping large scale field crops weed and insect free would be really labour intensive and in areas with high humidity problems the loss to fungal disease would be impossible to control


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## caseymyhorserocks

This site has been advertising all over craigslist. They have ryegrass, alfalfa,and oat seeds.

Fodder-Pro Feed Systems - Fodder Systems - Healthy, fresh feed every day


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## FlyGap

Fodder!!! 
So it took me forever to get started but now we are up and runnin!

My homemade setup: Cost $0. Bag of wheat: $12



The "product" 8 days later:


I'm getting 9 lbs of fodder from 1lb 12oz of wheat seed. I tried barley but it molded and was tossed, I think I need to soak with more bleach added. The wheat has had no problems and is LOVELY.

Dash, the fatty, loves it! It took them a couple days to figure out.


The chickens DIG IT!
This is their first look at it:


This Roo says ok ladies, it's good!


I'm expanding and doing a larger setup this week. It'll produce 30lbs a day, .


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## jaydee

I wondered if you ever tried it out - I wonder why the barley didn't work. Looks like its been a success with the wheat though so worth the effort


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## FlyGap

I think the barley just had more mold spores on the grain. I'm terrified of bleach and am using as little as possible so with three teaspoons a gallon in the initial soak it would do better, I'm only using 1 now for the wheat. It dissipates but I dispose using ANY chemicals in the house. I'm looking into using something better like peroxide or just oxide... Found mixed results.
With the weather getting warmer barley is the preferred grain, so I need to get it down. It'll be too warm to grow wheat successfully, it needs temps in the 65/70 degree range. Which is about as warm as I could get the house with all the bad weather....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## guidoLaMoto

You and I seem to have the same enthusiasm for self-reliance, FlyGap. That's a big part of my interest in growing fodder.

You may be interested in the forum at BackWoodsHome Mag: self-reliance | homesteading | canning | backwoods | magazine a lot of good people with good ideas there.

In regards using grass seeds, as I said on the other thread, grass is grass and all grains are grasses. the nutritional differences from one type to the next is too small to make any difference.. We should go by cost and ease of germination.

Wheat & oats sell for about $0.25/lb. Fescue, & rye are over $2.00/lb. On-line sources of barley seem to be even more expensive- I guess they're trying to capitalize on the ignorance & wealth of the yuppies who want to eat organically at any cost.


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## guidoLaMoto

Oh, I just notice the second page of posts.

Your matts of fodder look pretty much like mine. Our germination rates are pretty much the same. You may be layering the seeds out a little thicker than I do. I only go ~1/2 - 3/4 in thick.

You needn't worry quite so much about the diluted bleach- after all, you've swallowed swimming pool water and didn't die. That's all it is.


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## SueC

This probably won't help you because of your climate, but for anyone in a zone with a winter growing season and a summer drought, growing fodder trees like acasias and tagasaste as shelter belts is worth considering. Both are legumes and produce high-quality green summer fodder with a good protein content. Tagasaste is also called "tree lucerne".

Cows eat both. Horses eat tagasaste.

Here are some photos - click to enlarge:










This shows a three-year-old line of tagasaste in the background.









A horse in summer eating tagasaste.










Tagasaste completely sheltering the donkey paddock - we live in a very windy, summer-hot area. Our fruit and vegetable garden and house also are sheltered by tagasaste belts. These tagasaste will be cut off at 1.5m when summer feed is required, and will send vigorous new shoots almost immediately now that their roots are in the groundwater!










Three-year-old acacias growing along the driveway (not visible).









Same acacias seen two months earlier from a house window, when in full spring bloom.

All these were hand-planted with an adze after weed control. Tagasaste was obtained at 10c per bare-rooted seedling. We planted 800 and 95% took. Tagasaste also flowers profusely mid-winter, plugging up the usual winter feed gap for bees in this area, and giving our hives an early start on honey-making.

Plus the birds love these hedges.

Acacias were 80c per cell seedling.

Planting shelter belts of fodder trees has many, many benefits besides fodder!

More here:

http://www.horseforum.com/farm-forum/shelter-belts-485418/


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