# Welsh partbred mare, 2,5 years.



## StellaIW (Feb 5, 2012)

Here's my little horse. She's a 2,5 year old little pony that I've owned since she was born. I owned her mother who most likely were a Welsh Cob. Her father is a German riding pony. 

She's standing a bit downhill so her hindlegs are a bit wonky in this picture. 





































She's a big lass for being such a small little horse. ;-)


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

I am confused about her age 2 or 5 or 2 1/2? I also would not let her be that fat. You are headed for IR or founder issues. Trim her up and you will have a beauty


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## StellaIW (Feb 5, 2012)

She is two and a half year, she doesn't do any work. She's just out in a 25 acre field with a small herd of young mares. She's out all hours of the day and night and will be so in the winter. (They get high quality hay in the winter.)

She´s only eating grass now (They get high quality hay in the winter.) so it will sort itself out now that autumn is here.


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## Horses4u (Oct 8, 2010)

I don't think her weight is that bad considering she's not in work, her neck looks a bit cresty but welshies are supposed to have a thicker neck. Quarters need muscling up and looks a bit sickle hocked too.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

She has fat pockets on her barrel and rump. Not good for a young horse. I would limit its time on pasture. I would rate her a 5 on scale
Body Condition Scoring of Horses


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

Churumbeque- she is 2.5. A comma is used in place of a decimal in many parts of the world. We Americans are strange in terms of that.

Stella, I love Storm. Absolutely gorgeous. However these pictures really aren't great for critique because she isn't really squared up in the first picture- she is standing under herself in front and back. This throws all of her body off and makes it look like she has a horrifically straight shoulder which I REALLY don't think is the case. She has very nice legs though from what I can see, provided that she doesnt usually stand like that.

I have to agree about her weight though. If I remember right, Stella had laminitis issues and this seems to have been passed down to Storm. Or at least, the tendency to be a 'good doer' has. She is quite over weight, even keeping in mind that being a welsh- she IS going to be stocky. She does have fat pads all over her body which really puts her at risk for founder/laminitis/IR/cushings, all of which aren't fun to deal with. I know this isn't your fault as it isn't like you're over feeding her, but for soundness and longevity's sake, I suggest that you consider finding a way to put a grazing muzzle on her for part of the day at least, or bring her somewhere where her access to her all you can eat buffet of grass and hay is more limited and lower quality. She probably WILL lose weight over winter, but you need to figure out how to keep it off of her as spring and summer come again.

Like I said, she is GORGEOUS, definitely one of my favorites, and maturing so nicely. I just think that she would be much better off without the extra 100 lbs of weight that she seems to always carry.


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## StellaIW (Feb 5, 2012)

Endiku said:


> Churumbeque- she is 2.5. A comma is used in place of a decimal in many parts of the world. We Americans are strange in terms of that.
> 
> Stella, I love Storm. Absolutely gorgeous. However these pictures really aren't great for critique because she isn't really squared up in the first picture- she is standing under herself in front and back. This throws all of her body off and makes it look like she has a horrifically straight shoulder which I REALLY don't think is the case. She has very nice legs though from what I can see, provided that she doesnt usually stand like that.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply! I'll take some better pictures for critique some other day. But no she does not stand with her hind legs under her like that normally. I mentioned that she's standing a bit wonky in the upper picture because it´s, as you can see, taken with her standing in a downhill.

She is a bit fat, yes. I am perfectly aware. However it turned out that Stella got laminitis on one hoof because of an infection in her uterus from foaling. She had to be put down because of her stomach going to hell after all the medication she had to eat to keep a check on the pain. All bloodwork was negative when it came to IR and cushings. :-(

And it's also proven that if you put a muzzle on them during a part of the day they compensate by eating double up for the time that the muzzle is off. 

We have been putting her in a field with shetlands when she has turned this size before during the summer to keep her weight down. We are managing it. However, here it's autumn now. Grass will start to contain less and less energy and protein from now on and she will loose weight slowly. 

Our horses move a lot in their fields, we have big ones and cold winters -35C is not that uncommon here. She will loose weight soon by just being left alone. She is also getting started to be ridden and worked. 

I wont give her low quality hay, she is a growing horse that need the right balance between protein and energy, all the minerals and so on. We wont be getting that from a bad hay.

Last winter she was fed a hay with 6 MJ and 70g digestible protein per kg. (Raw protein over 100g) And very low in sugar of course to keep that down to a minimum. 

I wont be reducing her time outside because I think it's bad to keep young horses in stables. What's happening is that she will loose weight since she will get more exercise and there wont be much grass left here soon.
If it comes to it and it doesn't work, she will be put in a smaller field with shetlands and therefore getting less food. But only if she wont start loosing weight soon. 

Next summer will be easier. She will be exercised more, she will change between fields like she has this summer. I've honestly probably been a bit quick on letting her out from the diet field to her young friends.

I do have a close contact with my vets. (Who comes out to the stable I am at about 2-3 times a month to check on the horses. ) And they think we are managing her weight issues alright. She is valued to be a 4 on the weight scale by the vet when she is like this. 

I understand your concerns, but we are aware of it and we are working on it. But thanks for caring. It's really needed out there.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

She is a real stunner, its nice to see what she's grown up into but I'm someone else that thinks she needs her grazing restricted as its possible she has inherited that laminitis tendency from her mother - its very common in welsh breeds and the Germans used ponies with native British breeding as the foundation for their Sport Ponies so that puts her at high risk of developing IRS later on in life


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

I agree that stalling her would be a very bad idea! I suggested a grazing muzzle thinking that you could use it to keep her from eating much or the grass when it is at its highest sugar content during the day, then let her have at it later. It probably wouldn't change her weight much like you said, but I was thinking more in terms of NSC. Thr amount of sugar in your pasture also depends on what grass grows in it. Apparently a lot of pastures these days are genetically modified to be 'super grass' for dairy cattle here in the USA, which obviously is BAAAD for a sensitive equine, but I have no idea what grasses are native to your area. Might be worth looking into though! 

Do you have dry lots in your area? I kept my mini mare on a dry lot after she foundered minimally before I bought her, and it was a good option for her. The lot wasnt huge, but it was plenty of space for her and her 3 other fat friends to canter around in if they wanted to, so they moved a lot. We also fed hay in slow feeder nets so that it lasted all day but they didn't get to eat as much as they wanted....otherwise I kid you not, she turned into a balloon!!! But that may not be an option for you. Either way I agree 1000% with no. No stalls. No crap hay either. I just meant that, for example if you are feeding Lucerne alfalfa hay, switch to grass hay. You can ignore that whole statement though from me as you already tested your hay. Thank goodness there are hays that are both nutritious AND low sugar!

Anyways, I can't wait to see level pictures of miss Storm! I can't get over how photogenic she is. Neither of my horses were photogenic at all. Hahaha. Its so exciting to hear that she will start being ridden soon! Did she end up being big enough for you to ride?!


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## StellaIW (Feb 5, 2012)

We don't have genetically modified pastures here. 

This is one of the fields, (Yes, they also have woods to go into.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdUhlBA7Z6Y

But yes, we do have fields that have less grass where she has been when she needs to loose weight (Like she is now.) I would put her in there now if it wasn't for the fact that autumn is here and it will soon be less and less grass to eat. No hay will be given yet, so she will loose weight by staying where she is now. We only give grass hay here, but my stable owner usually does a great job producing high nutritious hay. I've also taken a few courses at university in horse feeds so we should be okay.  

I've have been sitting on her in walk and I am a bit tall, but she will be able to carry me around. She is 13.3HH tall(short) and I am 5"7, But I am not overly heavy. 

Here's a few pictures of it.



















I'm glad that she is growing up so that she can get more exercise. I'll probably will be able to take her as a hand horse in the future too. 

Older pictures, from when she was 1,5 years old and in better shape, on a hay diet, no grass. This year has been crazy when it comes to how good the pastures have been, we had a very mild winter, and of course she is getting older and not needing as much food. But like I said we have a plan, I am aware that she is fat. 

Her ribs could be felt with light pressure when she was in this condition. And she's about a year younger here.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

StellaIW said:


> Thanks for the reply! I'll take some better pictures for critique some other day. But no she does not stand with her hind legs under her like that normally. I mentioned that she's standing a bit wonky in the upper picture because it´s, as you can see, taken with her standing in a downhill.
> 
> She is a bit fat, yes. I am perfectly aware. However it turned out that Stella got laminitis on one hoof because of an infection in her uterus from foaling. She had to be put down because of her stomach going to hell after all the medication she had to eat to keep a check on the pain. All bloodwork was negative when it came to IR and cushings. :-(
> 
> ...


 cool,weather is when most laminitis occurs. When its cold at night and warm in the cay the sugar is much higher in the grass.


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## StellaIW (Feb 5, 2012)

Yes I am aware. Sugar rises in grass when the frost come. 

Do you suggest I keep her stabled for a few months this autumn and winter?


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

StellaIW said:


> Yes I am aware. Sugar rises in grass when the frost come.
> 
> Do you suggest I keep her stabled for a few months this autumn and winter?


I don't know your situation but saw she was on 25 acres. I would have some smaller areas partitioned off so they don't have unlimited access. I think she is going to be a horse that is always going to need to be managed and some time in. A dry lot and some hay along with limited turnout when the sugars are low. She might even need her hay soaked to reduce sugar and starch. I horse of that age is too young for those fat pockets.


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## StellaIW (Feb 5, 2012)

The hay gets analyzed for it's sugar and starch. It does not need to be soaked to reduce sugar and starch since it's already very low. 

She's fat because she is on grass. 25 acres because horses are meant to be outside. In the winter we don't have grass we have snow. The grass is the issue, not hay. Like I said, she gets put in a field with less grass when she gets this fat.

Limited turnout? So the suggestion is to keep a 2,5 year old stabled? 

I won't have a horse on limited turnout, because here it would mean she would only be able to be out in a small paddock for a couple of hours a day. Then I might as well put her down right now, because that is no life for a horse.

But like I've written, her weight is being taken care of. But of course you know better than the veterinarians that keep a close eye on her.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

StellaIW said:


> Yes I am aware. Sugar rises in grass when the frost come.
> 
> Do you suggest I keep her stabled for a few months this autumn and winter?


If you didn't want me to answer the question why did you ask?
Smaller areas portioned off is not being stabled. You could have a couple of acres separated instead of 25. 
You agree that grass is the issue but you do not do anything about it so your horse will be the one to suffer.


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## StellaIW (Feb 5, 2012)

You wrote, limited turnout when the sugar is low. That's being stabled. 

What difference would a smaller field do? They would still have grass - shorter grass, that is more stressed and therefore higher in sugar. She is also more likely to eat weeds that could trigger laminitis if nothing else is being offered.

If you read what I write then you would see that I actually do something about it.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Stella, your mare is pretty. But she is too large. She is not only at risk of laminitis, but also putting extra strain on her joints.

Churumbeque is posting out of concern for your mare, not attacking you.

There are many ways to help with limited grazing. Yes, sometimes it includes stabling or sectioning off the paddock. Or having part of the day on grass and part on a dry lot.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

StellaIW said:


> She's fat because she is on grass. 25 acres because horses are meant to be outside. In the winter we don't have grass we have snow. The grass is the issue, not hay. Like I said, she gets put in a field with less grass when she gets this fat.
> 
> Limited turnout? So the suggestion is to keep a 2,5 year old stabled?
> 
> ...


I would say that yes I may know more than some veterinarians in certain areas. They get In a hurry and don't spend much time thinking about your horse. I had taken my horse to several vets that couldn't figure out what was wrong with my horse and with me researching and not giving up I figured out what was wrong with my horse when no vet would take me seriously. 
And it was so simple it ****es me off when no one would listen. 

Just because a horse is on a dry lot does not make a miserable life. What makes a miserable life is being in pain from founder. I looked at a picture of this horses dam and it also had metabolic issues. If you take care of this now it may save you much heartache later in life. It is not normal for a young horse to have fat pockets like that.
Your horse looks looks much older than it is. Many young horses can be on grass and not look like that. You should be very concerned. You let it get fat and hen let it slim down and let it get fat again. What kind of life is that?
If you feed it properly now they can regulate their body and prevent IR when they get older.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

I think at this point Stella understands our concern. It is her choice now, what to do. 

Stella you really do not look to tall for her at all! I think that with a saddle she will take up your leg nicely and she is plenty stout enough. I am pleasantly surprised by her height! I for some reason figured she was shorter. I ride a 12.2 hh Caspian mare myself, at 4'11! It probably looks odd but she doesn't struggle with me even a little. Storm looks SO nice with you, and you're right. Being old enough to ride is going to help her so much. Be glad you live in Sweden or I would steal her. I kid you not, my dream horse (pony) is a palomino or grey welsh part bred. The shorter the better


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## Bobthebuilder (Jan 8, 2012)

I wouldn't worry about her weight.
Knowing how short the summers are in Sweden, and how long (and cold) the winters are with no grass at all, the weight will sort itself out. Most horses get pudgy during the summer holidays. Anyway, soon she'll be old enough to ride and exercise 'properly' so it will be easier to manage her weight.

We can all only judge from our own experiences, which is understandable, but I think we should keep in mind that things differ from place to place.

(Sorry for bringing up an old thread guys. Didn't check the date)


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## rbaker0345 (Nov 2, 2014)

I think that the problems here are type related. Welsh cobs are not supposed to be ribby. She doesn't look fat, she looks prepared for those GodAwful winters you have over there. She is a cob and she should be drafty looking. Not too many people here in the states understands the type of horse that isn't svelt. Prezwalski's horses have that exact kind of body type, why? Because they've evolved to endure hellish conditions. Not to say that she is svelt, but she certainly isn't obese. People say the same thing about my pony because they're all used to big giant warmbloods and OTTB's. As long as I can feel her ribs with a little bit of pressure I tell them that she is not fat, she is just well sprung.


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## luvmydrafts (Dec 26, 2013)

i wouldnt worry about her weight with winter coming...just put a little less hay out over the winter until you see her losing some, that should trim her down good by spring  my boys are a little little bit on the chubby side right now but by start of spring then the grass starts to grow again they will be on the thin side...helps them to go into winter a little bit chubby...good luck!!!


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

luvmydrafts said:


> i wouldnt worry about her weight with winter coming...just put a little less hay out over the winter until you see her losing some, that should trim her down good by spring  my boys are a little little bit on the chubby side right now but by start of spring then the grass starts to grow again they will be on the thin side...helps them to go into winter a little bit chubby...good luck!!!


That doesn't make sense to me. Why cut there food back when they need it the most to keep warm? The time to cut back is not the cold harsh winter.


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