# Sorrel or silver bay?



## Jacksmama (Jan 27, 2010)

I think she is probably a sorrel with the flaxen gene, which would lighten the mane and tail. I think a lot of people mislabel horses with some kind of silver because it's a sought after color and it gets more views, the horse you saw probably wasn't a silver bay either. Check out the link. It expresses a multitude of ways, but there are a few traits that are universal. The silver gene lightens all black on the body to chocolate brown, and fades the mane and tail. IME it doesn't go blonde though, more of a silvery color. There is often barring on the legs and counter shading often mistaken for a dorsal stripe. 
Quarter Horse


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

I see sorrel.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Flaxen chestnut/flaxen sorrel. Or just sorrel....I don't see silver. She looks kind of like my flaxen chestnut mare:


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## CCH (Jan 23, 2011)

Silver can be tested. Horse Testing - Equine Genetic Testing

I don't see it in her though. One of the expressions is silver in the eyelashes and she doesn't appear to have any.


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## WWA (Sep 30, 2010)

Thanks everyone!
That's what I thought too and after all, she is registered as a sorrel. Just that ad that made me wonder... but like Jacksmama said, the horse might have just been listed as sliver bay to attract buyers.

I just love how nature comes up with a sorrel with flaxen mane/tail when all her ancesters are black!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I see sorrel too.


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## WWA (Sep 30, 2010)

Thank you for the link CCH!
I read that it can't be tested... well, not that it matters in my case but it's good to know anyways.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Jacksmama said:


> I think she is probably a sorrel with the flaxen gene, which would lighten the mane and tail. I think a lot of people mislabel horses with some kind of silver because it's a sought after color and it gets more views, the horse you saw probably wasn't a silver bay either. Check out the link. It expresses a multitude of ways, but there are a few traits that are universal. The silver gene lightens all black on the body to chocolate brown, and fades the mane and tail. IME it doesn't go blonde though, more of a silvery color. There is often barring on the legs and counter shading often mistaken for a dorsal stripe.
> Quarter Horse


Unfortunately you are only partially right. Silver can and does make a mane/tail completely white. 

My silver bay -













































OP you horse is a flaxen sorrel, no doubt in my mind about that.


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## WWA (Sep 30, 2010)

I'm not trying to be offensive NdAppy but your cutie looks sorrel/flaxen to me as well :wink:. 
What is the difference? How can you tell if it's a sorrel/flaxen or a silver bay. 

I'm really only asking for my own (and maybe some others) eduacation here... not trying to proof anyone right or wrong.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

No offense at all.  To most people he does appear to be a flaxen sorrel. The same as his dam, who _is_ a flaxen sorrel.

Picture from last summer of Pistol and his dam -









This is the two of them about Feb. 2010









In the above picture, do you notice the richness of Pistol's color versus his dam's? That is one indicator that he is not a sorrel, or red based, horse. 

Now is this picture from last summer... Do you notice the "dirty" brownish color of his lower legs? That is one indicator of him being silver as they are pretty much that color all year long, fresh scrubbed or dirty in the pasture (you can see it in the above picture as well, and you can also see it in the pictures in my previous post). Now take a look at his eyes. Notice the white eye lashes? This is another indicator of silver.











Here is another picture of his legs -



















Also, I know it is hard to see on these pictures of him, but he has striped hooves. Striped hooves is also another characteristic of silver.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I have a silver bay/black also, see the dirty silver on his legs and face?


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## Jacksmama (Jan 27, 2010)

Oh yes, it definitely CAN make it white, it's just IME they have been the silvery color. At least on the horses I've worked with.


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## WWA (Sep 30, 2010)

NdAppy, now I see the difference! Thank you for explaining it so well!

It's really tough to see the difference if you don't know what to look for! :lol:

I'm not a color freak at all and as odd as it may sound, I like sorrels best anyways (that's why I ended up buying a sorrel Canadian in the first place considering most of them are black) but it sure is great to know about it!

equiniphile, your girl is also very pretty! I can definitely see the silver bay in her!


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

WWA said:


> equiniphile, your girl is also very pretty! I can definitely see the silver bay in her!


 Boy  Lol, thank you!


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Equinephile i would say your boy is a black silver/silver dapple. 


I am glad that I was able to explain it and have it make sense WWA.


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## WWA (Sep 30, 2010)

equiniphile said:


> Boy  Lol, thank you!


 
Oops... sorry!  
My vet kept calling my mare 'him' all the time on sunday... maybe hat stuck :lol:


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## dressagebelle (May 13, 2009)

On the subject of Silver Bays, do you think thats what this Welsh Pony is? His mane is kind of "sooty", has dark hairs mixed in with the white, and he definitely has the sooty looking legs and face as well. Can't see it as well in this picture because he's got his big fur coat, but its the best I have. The second photo is him with his half brother, same dad different mom. http://www.horseforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59495&stc=1&d=1301432453
http://www.horseforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59496&stc=1&d=1301432483


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## CCH (Jan 23, 2011)

WWA said:


> Thank you for the link CCH!
> I read that it can't be tested... well, not that it matters in my case but it's good to know anyways.


Whoops. I didn't read it, just knew they offered the cheapest tests when I had mine tested.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

CCH you read that wrong :razz: lol Silver can and _is_ tested for. both by Animal Genetics and UC Davis.


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

I feel pretty confident that there is no way for her to be silver bay w/out even looking at her. First if both parents are black there's no way she could be bay. And second, unless I'm mistaken which is possible, don't know a ton about silver, but I 'think' silver is dominate so one parent would have to be silver, and I 'think' it always expresses on black based, so if both parents are black she can't be silver either.


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## WWA (Sep 30, 2010)

I agree with you haviris! I just read the article on the link CCH posted and found too, that one parent has to have the silver gene.

But nature sure loves to play with colors eh? Out of a lineage of all blacks, there pops up a sorrel/flaxen! So cool!


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## TheLastUnicorn (Jun 11, 2010)

havaris has it right. The only 'Possibility' from two black parents is chestnut/sorrel. 

Black can be a "sneaky" color when it comes to hiding red. You can have generations of recessive red before you ever "see" a red foal. 

Beyond that, as far as I'm aware, the Canadian breed does not carry the silver gene... so if the OP's horse is a purebred, and unless there's been some recent new developments it's not possible to be silver.


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## CheyAut (Nov 26, 2008)

Dressagebelle, the welsh is chestnut, not silver.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

We have a lot of Silver (Not all are silver 'dapples') in Gypsies. Silver hides very nicely in chestnut. Here is a photo of Misty Valley Silver Fox.













His Sire The Hustler. Minimally expressed Tobiano. 









His Dam Rowan. Chestnut.








Rowan is interesting, since she carries a hidden Silver gene and also a hidden Agouti gene. 

Lizzie


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