# New here and new horse problems



## Cocohoney (Jun 30, 2021)

Hi to the community!

I’m new here, live in Australia, had horses from age 4 until around 30 years ago, but have ridden other people’s regularly since then. 
We have just moved somewhere that I can have a horse on my own land and I decided I would just get a sensible sh/qh for trail riding etc- I don’t want to compete any more really.
Of course, while I was looking I came across an unbroken 8 yr old Arabian mare at a rescue and fell in love…
She is halter broken but has poor manners and doesn’t enjoy it, and has apparently had feet/worming done, she wasn’t abused, just left turned away untouched and finally surrendered. As far as we know she has always lived with others, but the rescue told me she hadn’t bonded with any horse or person there and was bottom of the herd pecking order. The rescue hadn’t had her long and apart from feet/teeth/vet checks had done nothing with her.
Amazingly she loaded, I struggled to get her out again, but we did it. She was stressed and sweaty after a 4 hour trip to my place. I put her in our small holding yard as I wanted to monitor her before turning her out.
She has now been here for 6 days, and is still only picking at grass and occasionally a little hay. She looks at the food in her bucket (I continued on with what the rescue had been feeding, basically cool pellets) but won’t touch it. Yesterday I tried adding a bit of molasses chaff to tempt her and she picked at it but again left it. I also broke it down to 4 smaller feeds instead of 2 in case that would help.
She barely stayed still for 24hours, and is still pacing the fences and not eating. There is some grass in the holding pen (it’s 15x10m) but not loads, she is picking at that. There are horses kept on the property next to us, way out of sight, but that is the direction she constantly stares in. 
From her behaviour I would say she has never had a strong human relationship, she behaves mostly as if I’m not there (although she did whinny at me as I walked over with the feed bucket this morning!)

So I am wondering how to proceed. So far all I am doing is bringing her food and talking to her. I have groomed her a little but she quickly tired of it and gets upset and fidgety. I’ve also done this at liberty and she will tolerate it for about the same amount of time. I know Arabians have to be asked not told so I don’t want to push her, especially as she has gone from being in a herd to alone. I am currently sitting in a camp chair in the yard with her and have done that for the last few days for a couple of hours, saying hi if she comes nearby but mostly she stays away. She does seem to calm down a little bit when I am there I think, but that might be wishful thinking- I do also see her standing quietly when I look out through the window sometimes. 
As I write this she has just laid down about 10 feet from me and is closing her eyes and dozing!
What does everyone think? Should I be getting the halter on her and starting things, or leave her to settle for longer? Any tips for getting her to eat? Am I asking too much? Original plan was to get another horse as well as her but I don’t know how long it will take to find one (been looking for months) and anyway I’m concerned that as stressed as she obviously is she will form an unhealthy attachment. I also wanted to be able to spend a few months bonding with her given her lack of attachment to humans.
Sorry for the huge post!


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

You have at least two choices. 

First, you can keep trying to bond with her and hope she returns your kindness. 

Or, the second option, you can send her to a trainer who will teach her ground manners and how to be ridden while behaving nicely. 

The first will take very, very long and you may never have the horse you hoped for.

The second will be safer for you and ensure the mare value in society, should you ever have to sell. It's also the more fun option.


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## Cocohoney (Jun 30, 2021)

boots said:


> You have at least two choices.
> 
> First, you can keep trying to bond with her and hope she returns your kindness.
> 
> ...


I would consider a trainer, I have been looking locally for one. I should have said, I have backed and broken before myself, albeit a good few years ago now. It does make me a bit sad to not do it myself, but I get your point.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Hello fellow Aussie!

Depends on many things I reckon, as to whether 'bonding' will take ages, and whether pushing the issue - whether you do it yourself or hire a trainer - will be better/safer. In the second case, depends VERY MUCH on the approach/understanding/consideration of the trainer. Seen people with little clue(or too fluffy unicorn ideas) and too much time spend aeons just sitting doing nothing with horses & months later, they still can't! But then, I've seen, time & again, people(including 'name brand' trainers) push or force horses who obviously were traumatised by the treatment & harder to handle afterwards.

First & foremost, if she's too stressed there to even eat, that's not good & I wouldn't want to leave that going on for long, or she will have ulcers etc to boot. She's probably not sleeping well either, by herself - tho it's a great sign if she was willing to lay down beside you! Is there any possibility of borrowing a horse, to at least keep next to her pen, to give her some sense of security? And I'd be looking for things she WILL eat when you're around - lucerne hay/chaff maybe? So you can then start to at least give her some extra nutrition, including extra magnesium, which is used up in times of stress, helps horses stay calm in times of stress when they're getting enough of it, but is also usually deficient in the diet - so vicious circle if she's deficient!

I like the ideal of just sitting, spending time with a horse, but if that's all you're ever doing, chances are you won't make much 'progress'. I'd also be rewarding/encouraging her for coming to you, rewarding her for allowing herself to be 'groomed', for being haltered, etc. I presume, if she's had her feet done & been wormed etc, she at least knows how to lead, be tied, respond to halter pressure? So she CAN do all that, just doesn't like to? Lots of rewards for whatever she can do is a way to change her attitude about it. To begin with, food 'treats' may be the only thing you can provide that she's really interested in, but if you get her comfortable with being groomed, if you're considerate of what she's thinking of it, you'll probably fine there are particularly itchy places she loves to be scratched, that you can use as rewards in future.


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## Cocohoney (Jun 30, 2021)

loosie said:


> Hello fellow Aussie!
> 
> Depends on many things I reckon, as to whether 'bonding' will take ages, and whether pushing the issue - whether you do it yourself or hire a trainer - will be better/safer. In the second case, depends VERY MUCH on the approach/understanding/consideration of the trainer. Seen people with little clue(or too fluffy unicorn ideas) and too much time spend aeons just sitting doing nothing with horses & months later, they still can't! But then, I've seen, time & again, people(including 'name brand' trainers) push or force horses who obviously were traumatised by the treatment & harder to handle afterwards.
> 
> ...


Yes that is my concern re a trainer. You hear some terrible stories and I am regional so ideas can be a bit old fashioned. 
I am trying to treat her when she does respond. I hand fed her some lucerne today and then when I went back out to see her this evening I could see she has eaten some from the net too. She actually had a few little mouthfuls of her feed this evening too- I have added chaff with molasses to that to make it more tempting, and also just put a small amount in 4 x a day instead of two larger ones so she didn’t feel overwhelmed.
She does like a scratch around her ears, and I think she mostly likes being groomed for half an hour or so- she stays still voluntarily for that long anyway.
I have tried every type of treat food you can imagine- I actually don’t think she has been hand fed ever as she doesn’t even respond to a held out hand with curiosity like most horses would! She doesn’t even investigate what I have in my hand. She took the hay though, but I guess that’s very visible.
I will get her some magnesium supplements, any recommended?
She is pretty willing on the lead, responding to pressure happily etc, will back up and stand, but she does get quite het up after a while and start to mess around. She also has little respect for anyone’s space. although that has improved just by spending time in the yard with her loose. Tonight my (adult) son was scratching her and she was walking off- I have been leaving her alone when she does that. He followed and she definitely gave him a warning. Ears back and shifted her bum towards him, then walked off, very clearly saying leave me alone. That’s the first time I’ve seen that behaviour.
I’m looking out for someone wanting to agist or something, although I’d rather not have another here long term. Hopefully I will find another I want to bring home soon.
Any experiences on how long a horse has taken to settle when going from herd to alone? I know they will all be different, it would just be interesting to hear if anyone has had a success?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Another way to look at this is that as long as there is no other thing to reallly grab her attention beyond her worry regarding those faraway horses, she will not detach her mind from that thing. By being a very calm, non-demanding presense with her, you are offering her nothing of greater interest, so you are, in essense, LEAVING her alone with her worries. You might say that you offer her food, and scratches, but to her these are nnot nearly as important as her worry 'out there'. She is, in a void, so to speak. You may NEED to do some things that are big enough to break her attention off from that other thing, and require her to pay attention to you. During the time that she has left off worrying about the other horses, and is focussed on you, she is outside of her worry. Eventually, she may learn to come to you willingly when she is at maximum tolerance for anxiety becuase she has experienced the cessation of that concern when connected to you.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Cocohoney said:


> am regional so ideas can be a bit old fashioned.


Perhaps you can tell us (broadly) where you are, on the off chance someone knows a great trainer in your area? Sounds like you're going in the right direction though.



> she mostly likes being groomed for half an hour or so- she stays still voluntarily for that long anyway.


Great! So with that sort of thing, I'd quit when she is still wanting more, not wait for her to leave. 

With the 'getting het up on lead' I'd stop WELL before that stage. I'm _guessing_ that if she is 'obedient' on lead but gets stressed, and she won't even investigate your hand, rather than being barely handled, she has been handled harshly, in a way that's caused her to 'shut down'. At least until it's all too much for her. There is a reason people like CA hate Arabs... Those sort methods can create a monster in a sensitive horse! 



> Any experiences on how long a horse has taken to settle when going from herd to alone?


Sometimes never, more often than not, not well. They're herd animals & it's not just about companionship but her feeling safe & secure. That's why she may also not be sleeping well even, not having anyone to watch over her. Frankly I think it's unfair to keep horses alone, even if they do 'settle' & get used to the state of affairs, it's usually a depressed state, or always anxious. 

Mare over the road was dumped on neighbour years ago & he(not horse person) can't understand that 'she was fine alone for years' but ever since we moved here(4 years) she spends all her time just standing at the fence sadly watching ours, or upset & running up & down calling, when she is out of sight of them. Offered to keep her with mine but he got worried about 'horse play' & thought they were 'being mean' to each other...

So yeah, if no other horses or ponies(best), have you got other stock? Keep her with cows or even goats at least.


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## Cocohoney (Jun 30, 2021)

tinyliny said:


> Another way to look at this is that as long as there is no other thing to reallly grab her attention beyond her worry regarding those faraway horses, she will not detach her mind from that thing. By being a very calm, non-demanding presense with her, you are offering her nothing of greater interest, so you are, in essense, LEAVING her alone with her worries. You might say that you offer her food, and scratches, but to her these are nnot nearly as important as her worry 'out there'. She is, in a void, so to speak. You may NEED to do some things that are big enough to break her attention off from that other thing, and require her to pay attention to you. During the time that she has left off worrying about the other horses, and is focussed on you, she is outside of her worry. Eventually, she may learn to come to you willingly when she is at maximum tolerance for anxiety becuase she has experienced the cessation of that concern when connected to you.


Oh that’s a good point! Thanks!


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## Cocohoney (Jun 30, 2021)

loosie said:


> Perhaps you can tell us (broadly) where you are, on the off chance someone knows a great trainer in your area? Sounds like you're going in the right direction though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’m in central west NSW

Yes I feel the same about horses being kept alone, and it was always my intention to get two, I just haven’t found the right one yet. Perhaps I should just move her to my friend’s place until I get another. We only have poultry, funnily enough the geese do hang around with her but I don’t think that’s the same!
She was snoozing when I looked out this morning, not staring off at next door, and she has eaten most of the hay so that’s good. 
I’m keeping my eye out for a mini, my fences just aren’t good enough for goats.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Arabs have a completely different mind set than other breeds that most trainers neither want to understand, nor are they willing to take the time for.

Arabs have to mostly think something is not only a good idea but their idea.

You’ve been out of horses for some time but were you with them, long enough to feel comfortable with at least trying to start this horse gaining trust and doing some Liberty work with her?

If so, I would start by simply taking a lawn chair, a book and go sit in her paddock. Just sit there and read. Let her come to you. If she comes within reach offer your hand, palm down, and rub her with the back of your hand if she gets close enough.

You can “play” with her from the chair daily until you sense she wants to do something more. Arabs are especially intelligent and easy to train once the human has earned their trust.

Arabs are very loyal to their human. She could have had a human at some point even though she is not broke. Her standoffish way suggests she is missing something in her life and may have shut down emotionally.

Arabs cannot be pushed - at all. Normally I would suggest a trainer but I’m against sending her somewhere as she may be ruined for life. I think you can at least do the ground work yourself

She has probably never had treats so I wouldn’t attempt to give her any treats.

One thought is to look at Mark Rashid’s website. I have several of his books because his ”way” with horses reminds me of my grandfather, who was half a generation ahead of the Dorrance Brothers and Ray Hunt.









Horses | Considering The Horse


See what Mark has to offer for you and your horse in person, and online. Considering The Horse is about the way we choose to shape our horsemanship through our own growth.




markrashid.com





His book ”Considering The Horse” might be a huge help, even though he was surrounded by Quarter Horses

My other thought is to take a look at the YouTube channel for “Malik the Arabian”. His owner is doing a lot of Liberty work with him that may give you some helpful ideas



https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYLVxHNc1hr1dw0HEIxIXzA



Malik being asked to consider stepping on the white tarp.





The bottom line is that it’s going to be a slow process, with lots of patience on your part. Whereas a trainer thinks in terms of ”time is money” and will try to push your Arab into something it is not mentally ready for, in 30 or 60 days.

Arabs and Arab/Crosses own a big piece of the horse part of my soul. I have zero patience for people who try to push too much onto them before they are ready. I did all my own training, thanks to my grandfathe, so none of mine ever suffered at the hands of the so-called “hurry up and get the job done“ trainers in my area at that time

I hope the link and the YouTube channel are helpful to you


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## Cocohoney (Jun 30, 2021)

> Arabs have a completely different mind set than other breeds that most trainers neither want to understand, nor are they willing to take the time for.
> 
> Arabs have to mostly think something is not only a good idea but their idea.


Thanks so much for this post, it has really helped as I am thinking along these lines but lacked the courage in my convictions. This is what I had understood about them, I have owned an Anglo Arab and ridden several other Arab crosses and they were always a joy, sensitive and responsive but also super smart. I don’t want her to feel bullied and shut down.



> You’ve been out of horses for some time but were you with them, long enough to feel comfortable with at least trying to start this horse gaining trust and doing some Liberty work with her?


Yes, definitely. I would much rather do it myself. I have backed and broken two, and also retrained ottb in my 20s. It’s a long time ago but I think I can remember most of it. Also very happy to read/Google/seek advice to make sure I am heading in the right direction.



> If so, I would start by simply taking a lawn chair, a book and go sit in her paddock. Just sit there and read. Let her come to you. If she comes within reach offer your hand, palm down, and rub her with the back of your hand if she gets close enough.
> 
> You can “play” with her from the chair daily until you sense she wants to do something more. Arabs are especially intelligent and easy to train once the human has earned their trust.


This was my plan as I read about ‘no agenda’ join up! I have been sitting in her yard in a camp chair every day for at least an hour along with the other things I was trying. She has definitely been coming closer little by little. I will focus on doing this as much as I can.



> Her standoffish way suggests she is missing something in her life and may have shut down emotionally.


This is exactly how I feel about her



> She has probably never had treats so I wouldn’t attempt to give her any treats


Any suggestions for alternative rewarding behaviour? Or is my patience and presence enough?



> The bottom line is that it’s going to be a slow process, with lots of patience on your part. Whereas a trainer thinks in terms of ”time is money” and will try to push your Arab into something it is not mentally ready for, in 30 or 60 days.


I have all the time, nothing for me to rush for, I just want her to be happy and manageable really, even if she ends up as a paddock ornament. I was hesitant about the slowly slowly method as I have had many comments that she will be untrainable and too stuck in her ways to get anywhere with her, so I need to send her to a trainer quick to break her “bad habits”
What do you think about farrier/teeth/worming etc. She doesn’t desperately need any of these right now but obviously she will do. I am certain she will do it, but I don’t want to go backwards in her small amount of trust in me…

Thank you for the book and video recommendations, I will look at those now


Amazingly I came out this morning to an almost empty hay net! When I entered the yard she walked towards me interested, but veered away as she got close. 
She also ate half her hard food straight away! Interestingly she is picking around the pellets she was already on and going for the chaff. I wonder if I might gradually change the pellets out to something else she might find more palatable, maybe beet? I also would like to add supplements but with her not eating reliably yet I wondered if anyone could suggest a good lick?

thanks everyone


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

It sounds as if, you have plenty of experience— once you get started with her, everything will come back to you. She will be far better with you as her somewhat rusty-at-training trainer, than someone who doesn’t get her

*What do you think about farrier/teeth/worming etc. She doesn’t desperately need any of these right now but obviously she will do. I am certain she will do it, but I don’t want to go backwards in her small amount of trust in me.*

Getting her prepared to stand politely for the farrier should be at the top of Plan A. When She reaches a point where she will allow you to rub her legs, eventually rubbing them clear down to the hooves and getting her to pick her hooves up for you to clean them out would be first order.

She needs the practice of you putting your finger in her mouth where the bit will be anyway. That might also Be a good start to getting her used to a tube of past.

I got my pure Arab out of a very neglectful situation. Early on I had to walk him and rub his throat at the same time because he was so good at holding the paste in his mouth and spitting it out the minute he was away from me, lollollol

Hopefully her teeth can go six or more months, if need be but “brushing the outsides of her teeth” with a wet washcloth will help her get used to her mouth being handled. I tell my horses to “wipe your mouth” after they eat and that’s when I rub their teeth.

There has been discussion over the years, on different forums as to who makes the better trainer. - a person who thinks in pictures or a person who thinks in abstract.

The thought is those of us who think on pictures seem to be able to make more progress, at a faster rate. 

If you think in pictures that’s an added bonus to connect with your Arab. I verbalize to my horses all the time. They also understand hand signals. They especially know that two thumbs up accompanied by a “good job!” means a soda cracker treat. Soda crackers because they have salt on the, if you do reach a point where she accepts them.

For now the best reward would be scritchies someplace on the face, neck or chest, where you remember your previous horses like, and add an enthusiastic “good job!”

Diet: Much has changed in that regard since your last horse. I’ve had horses 60+ years and was gobsmacked when a horse developed metabolic issues in 2007, then another one in 2012. 

Arabs being the easy keeping horses they are, puts them at the top of the “predisposed” list for insulin resistance. That means you will have to be careful what you feed her to keep the fat calories and the non-structural carbohydrates (NSC) low.

That means no beet pulp as beet pulp adds fat, lol

I am in the United States, so not a lot of help in this regard. Our resident farrier @loosie could offer more help than me

My only thought would be to mix her pellets and other supplements in a bit of water so she can’t pick out what she wants — something most of the horses on this forum do, given half the chanice, lol

If she is a really easy keeper, I might try to find a condensed vitamin/mineral supplement that has amino acids and a probiotic in it. Condensed would mean you could get away with feeding ounces (is that grams for you?). That would also cut down on needless starches in the feed pan.

My 26 yr old Tennessee Walker that is insulin resistant & Cushings. My 27 yr old Tennessee Walker is a really easy keeper. They eat the same base diet of Timothy pellets and a condensed vit/min supplement from the U.S. online company “HorseTech”. If they don’t have a faci,ity in Australia, shipping fees to you would probably be outrageous, not to mention possible Customs delays.


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## Cocohoney (Jun 30, 2021)

walkinthewalk said:


> It sounds as if, you have plenty of experience— once you get started with her, everything will come back to you. She will be far better with you as her somewhat rusty-at-training trainer, than someone who doesn’t get her
> 
> *What do you think about farrier/teeth/worming etc. She doesn’t desperately need any of these right now but obviously she will do. I am certain she will do it, but I don’t want to go backwards in her small amount of trust in me.*
> 
> ...


Thank you!
Empty hay net this morning and came straight over for her feed!
Also I have secured a second horse on trial, hopefully coming next week, so feeling pretty positive today!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Hiya @Cocohoney and welcome!

ETA: I wrote this after reading the first post only! 

You already know this, but it can't be stressed enough: Horses are social mammals and need to have companionship of their own kind. Taking a horse that's used to herd life away from its own species and keeping it isolated is a bit like space aliens coming along with a UFO, taking you away from everything you've known and all other human beings, and keeping you as a personal pet. There's few more distressing things you can do to a herd animal. A horse is not a dog - only dogs consistently prefer human beings to their own kind and are happy to live in a human substitute pack. It is not fair to keep horses, or other herd animals, on their own, without companionship of their own kind. It is not enough for them to bond with a human - they are not a dog.

You could possibly look at agisting other horses with yours so you don't have the expense and additional responsibility of keeping more than one horse, or at least acquiring a companion pony, or possibly a companion donkey (not quite as good, but will do). Yes you can keep horses with cows, goats etc, but if you gave them the choice they'd be with other horses. A horse can get used to many things, but is that necessarily fair, or a good thing - personally, I think animals need to be respected, and to have their particular species' needs and natural behaviours catered to - whether you're talking food animals or companion animals. With horses, the biggies are: Living and socialising freely with other equines, trickle grazing (or simulation), room for meaningful exploration and sustained exercise (regular outings with a human "backpack" are fine). _And many domesticated horses don't get these three super-important things, because humans tend to keep animals in ways that are convenient to them, not in ways that cater to the biological needs of the animals._

Other than that, I think if you've got horse sense and background experience already, and you're willing to keep learning, you don't need a trainer - just good instruction and people to bounce ideas off. A lot of trainers I've come across in Australia are shocking; good ones probably cost more than the average person can afford. I started DIYing horse education when I was 11, and children of friends also competently train ponies and horses (they are independent, capable, self-educating, intelligent children) - we don't need to outsource everything to "professionals" because with the right attitude you'll do a better job than the average professional anyway. (This is also why a lot of my friends on this forum learnt to trim their own horse hooves, and why my husband and I built our own house etc etc.)

You can still get these second-hand online, but may of course already have come across them: Tom Roberts' four classic Aussie horse training books, covering _The Young Horse_, _The Rider_, _The Bit_ and _Reminiscences. _Best training books I've ever read, set me up beautifully for educating my own horses from a young age, teach you to look at "horse logic" and to step outside your own point of view, to be patient and kind and persistent and fair, and to develop a mutual relationship with your horse. Still haven't read anything better for basic, medium and advanced training and riding, but a modern book I'd also recommend to anyone is Marthe Kiley-Worthington's _What It Is To Be Equine_. Humans tend to have a very human-centred, human-"superior" perspective, and this lovely book, like Tom Roberts', doesn't fall into that trap (and most horse training and general horse books on the market sadly do), and shows how to look differently, at what it is that other species need and are - how they're like us and how they're not, both of which are really important and both of which need to be honoured.

There's lots of people here to support you through various training issues - but you've got to be fair to your horse and stop isolating it from its own kind. If you can't get your mare equine company, you would be kinder to re-home her to a place where she will run with other horses. Yes, many people throw a lone horse into a big paddock and wait for them to adapt. Some will do themselves horrific injuries trying to cross fences to find a herd. Some won't, and will eventually live a lonely life. Those ones will survive - but they will not be happy, and their situation will not be of their own choosing.

PS: Ah, reading on, I see you are already remedying the herd situation - excellent. Good luck! 

Here's another useful resource you might like, on stress-free horse training:









Augustus arrives home: June 7, 2014


Augustus is a BLM mustang. He was born wild and captured in the Augusta Mountains Herd Management Area (HMA) of Nevada. It’s a relatively small HMA, so I haven’t been able to find much …




augustusthemustang.wordpress.com





It's a bit of an old blog so to find the "next entry" chronologically, go below the white box to the grey space before "Leave a reply" and you'll find a green hyperlink saying "Day 1..." towards the right-hand side. I love the way this person trained her unbroken mustang, and how quickly he learnt with her technique. It's a bit different to how I train in some respects, but lots of overlap and lots I can learn from her too - if I was training from scratch again, this is one method that would really interest me these days! 😎

Core concept I share with this trainer:



> Some horses do better with ropes and pressure and release and other techniques. I’m absolutely not against those techniques and use them when I think it’s appropriate. But this horse does better, at least at this point in his training, with positive reward and lots of choice. If I give him the option of saying “no” and reward him for the behaviors I ask for, he comes around very quickly, learns usually on the first instance, and is eager the next time I request the behavior. Mostly.


Look how she uses this positive-reinforcement, no-pressure technique to teach her horse to push a ball:






This horse is unspoilt by bad experiences with humans, inquisitive and friendly - and a happy student!


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## Cocohoney (Jun 30, 2021)

SueC said:


> Hiya @Cocohoney and welcome!
> 
> ETA: I wrote this after reading the first post only!
> 
> ...





SueC said:


> Hiya @Cocohoney and welcome!
> 
> ETA: I wrote this after reading the first post only!
> 
> ...


Thank you, these are super useful resources!

I have been spending as much time with her as I possibly can, and she really responded to me yesterday for the first time!
She stood quietly while I groomed her, nuzzled my elbow and even sniffed my hand!
This morning she came happily towards me and has eaten every feed yesterday and again this morning, I’m so pleased!
I know she will be so happy to have a mate, but I’m glad she has managed to begin to acknowledge me even though she must still be feeling stressed and alone.
It’s a very sweet, kind gelding I have coming so I hope they will love each other!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

If she's starting to settle, now is the time to start working with her more extensively! If you've got her attention, you could start taking her for walks etc. In enclosed areas at first, maybe further afield later. Groundwork "stop" and "walk-on" and turning etc first, in your enclosed space, with warm praise and maybe a little "scratchie" when she does it right - it's really important that horses don't break away from you by accident (spooking etc) particularly when you are first handling them (so that's why many people do the initial groundwork in a roundyard or other enclosed space, where they aren't likely to break away even if they spook). I personally prefer a long-ish cotton lead rope and leather gloves for early handling, so I don't have to let go - and when first taking flighty horses "out" for walks, I thread the lead through the halter rings and over the nose, like this:








This horse was very "jumpy" and I could never have held him just by the halter had he wanted to take off - but I've never had a horse break away from me with this simple trick (however - you also need to be aware of the angles you're making to the horse in a spook situation, because unless you're at mechanical advantage they can pull you along even with this setup - you can't get behind them; 45 degrees works well and then get them to circle you if they spook).

Just make sure your snap hook is lying flat against the jaw so you don't irritate the horse with the metal if he pulls back - or use a plain rope and appropriate knots to do this.








This horse was always a "hydrophobe" - although twelve years on, he's much less stressed about water and not given to enormous overreactions to it. This is the first time I took my horse to a large water body - a horse who threw tantrums at puddles - so it was quite a learning experience for him. Had he broken away from me on this outing, he'd have learnt quite a different lesson, and not one I would have wanted him to learn!

I really recommend walking your horse (safely) like a dog for long periods as a preliminary training exercise to riding. With the first horse I trained on my own - a badly halter-broken, terrified yearling I bought in a drought (who'd been scared by her halter-breakers by being tied short and rigid and flapped with a raincoat as her very first human-handling experience, which left her terrified and bathed in sweat "but we'll show her who's boss and that she can't get away" 🤬 and then, for years later, claustrophobic about being tied short) - I led her around with me like a dog for hours every day, for years until I could ride her - far afield on trails we would later ride, and because of this I never had any issues with her getting separation anxiety when I later rode her on her own, away from other horses. Plus, she was not in the least spooky by the time I did ride her - had seen it all before.

This was really early on, getting her used to water in 1983:
















It took months to get this little Arabian filly over the mismanagement of her "professional trainer" "halter-breaking" - and I've never had these issues with horses I've been able to start from fresh, without prior idiotic "lessons"...

Once your other horse arrives, you're going to end up having to manage and train her out of separation anxiety from her new paddock mate - and the more "training miles" you can get in with her before that happens, the easier that will be for you. Any groundwork, walking outings, "play" setups like obstacle courses - anything like that to get her working with you as a team, in a happy constructive way without huge avoidable problems like breaking away. Horses bond with you if you do things with them - work with them, walk them, teach them tricks etc - in a way that's pleasant for the horse and gets her thinking of you as a good thing and a protector/ally (always go between the horse and something it's scared of etc, touch the things it's scared of, bring them up slowly and so on). Not with treats - those have a role in some training methods, but IMO shouldn't be the primary focus - far better to get the horse to enjoy your company and the things you do when working with her. I never had treats in my pocket as standard, except for float training - and would only consider that for trick training sessions. I like to work with a horse's brain, not primarily their stomach! 😜


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## Cocohoney (Jun 30, 2021)

SueC said:


> If she's starting to settle, now is the time to start working with her more extensively! If you've got her attention, you could start taking her for walks etc. In enclosed areas at first, maybe further afield later. Groundwork "stop" and "walk-on" and turning etc first, in your enclosed space, with warm praise and maybe a little "scratchie" when she does it right - it's really important that horses don't break away from you by accident (spooking etc) particularly when you are first handling them (so that's why many people do the initial groundwork in a roundyard or other enclosed space, where they aren't likely to break away even if they spook). I personally prefer a long-ish cotton lead rope and leather gloves for early handling, so I don't have to let go - and when first taking flighty horses "out" for walks, I thread the lead through the halter rings and over the nose, like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you, that is just what I did yesterday with her, I put the halter on and walked around the little yard. I have a long rope and held her loose, she was very quiet and stopped when I did, started when I did. I used verbal cues at those points too, and told her well done and gave her scratches.
And now today she is eating and a lot more settled, again whinnying to me as I came in to the yard, came over for scratches briefly and is currently grazing next to me…However, as soon as I approach her she walks off, and isn’t as interested in me as yesterday. I haven’t pushed it, I just pottered about the yard, picking up the poop, hanging a rug on the fence, chatting to her and sitting in my chair. Do you think this is the right thing to do or should I be approaching her? I think she would allow me to halter her, I just get the impression she doesn’t want that today and so I haven’t pushed it. I feel like she is testing me out, but I’m not sure what response she wants (or needs)!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

If a horse is settled and not having a bad day, I don't worry about whether it wants to work with me or not, I just work with it and try to make that a pleasant experience (and I don't do that with treats, as explained above). I think we can overthink this stuff. I don't wonder if my dog wants to go for a walk either - unless she's having a really off day she always does, as it's a good experience for her to be out and about exercising with a buddy. And it's the same with my horses - the one I ride enjoys his rides the same way the dog enjoys her walks. That's because they're a positive experience for him - out and about exercising with a buddy (me). Likewise, when my little filly got used to being taken for long walks when I was a kid, she started to really enjoy it. If I'd wondered about whether she "wanted" me to halter her and "wanted" me to take her for a walk, we might have stayed home forever - but instead we went out, and were soon both enjoying the adventures and the teamwork.

Teaching horses is in many ways like teaching people - you've got to create pleasant learning exercises that they will enjoy (at least eventually), show a lot of leadership and willingness to look out for their welfare when you're dealing with young or green learners, and then morph that into a more mature partnership with time, where the person/horse is leaning on you less and less and becoming more independent and starting to offer their own suggestions that you can then follow up in your programme etc. When the horse isn't green anymore, the partnership should be consistently drawing on two brains and not just one; each with its own strengths and advantages, combining in a sort of chimera! That's when things get really interesting and riding seems almost telepathic - and that's an experience other HF buddies who educate their own horses also relate when they write about it. 

For specific and important basics, here's a taster of the concepts with which Tom Roberts starts his horse training book _"The Young Horse_” (Griffin Press, Netley, South Australia, 1974):


*TRAINING PROCEDURES:*

“_That will profit you” - “That will profit you not”_
“_Quiet persistence”_
“_End-of-Lesson”, what it means_
“_Old Hat”
Use of voice in training_


Few people who set out to train and educate a young horse give any thought to the great difficulties that face the horse.

How many of us setting out to teach him have given serious thought or study of HOW to teach him: how to establish a system of signals or aids that most riders grow up with and accept as being natural, but of which the horse has no knowledge whatsoever?

I am going to ask you a question, and before you read on I would like you to answer it clearly – to yourself.

_Question_: “Why does a horse stop or go slower if you pull on the reins?” If you answer, “Because it hurts the mouth,” I am sorry to have to break the news to you – you have failed.

But no, I'll give you another chance: “Why do you jump up instantly if you sit on an upturned tack or drawing pin?”

If you answer again: “Because it hurts” - you really do need to read every word in this book!


_The horse stops – and you jump up – not just because it hurts, but to stop it hurting. By no means the same thing._


And there isn't any doubt: if jumping up didn't stop the pain, _you_ would try doing something else. So, too, eventually, does the horse. _These are not trick questions._ If you really believe in and act on the answer you gave to the first, then you think that all you have to do is to hurt your horse's mouth and he will stop.

On the contrary, the important thing is to let him know – to teach him – how, by doing what you want of him, he can _avoid_ any pain, irritation, inconvenience and discomfort the bit (or whip or spur) might otherwise cause. Good trainers do everything they possibly can to avoid hurting the horse or even letting him hurt himself. Our real goal should be never to have to hurt our horse.

_Reward and punishment _is often cited as the secret of successful horse training and undoubtedly both rewards and punishments have their place. But – we should seldom, if ever, resort to punishment when teaching our horse anything new.

Punishment, when we use it, should be reserved for exceptional occasions. Don't think “Reward and Punishment.”

_Encourage and discourage_ is a better guide, as it drops the term “punishment.” When riding a young horse we alternate from encourage to discourage very frequently and quite often change from discourage to encourage several times in a matter of seconds.

But the term “discourage” still has the drawback that it _can_ include punishment; and we should discard any term that could include punishment as a normal training procedure. Punishment and teaching are “divorced.”

It is to avoid using any expression that could possibly include punishment as a normal teaching procedure that I suggest you think in the terms:


“_*That will profit you – that will profit you not.”*_


These terms mean exactly – _exactly_ – what they say.

“_To Profit”_ is to benefit or gain: to be better off. The profit to the horse can be any reward or encouragement the trainer may think his pupil should receive – and it must, of course, be available to give.

“_To Profit Not”_ means that the horse will gain or benefit not at all. Just that. It certainly does not mean that he will suffer a loss or be worse off – as he would be if he were punished.

This is what is so important about these expressions – and why I use them. By no stretch of the imagination can “Profit you not” be construed as punishment.


_It consists of withholding any gain, reward, encouragement and profit. That, and only that.


*Quiet Persistence*_

“It will profit you not” means that the horse will not be encouraged to follow a line of conduct other than what we have in mind for him. We withhold any gain – which means we quietly continue with our demands, whatever they may be.


_We persist. We quietly persist with our demands._


This gentle discouragement of “quiet persistence” is something that horse seem to find irresistible. Whenever you are in doubt as to what course to follow, mounted or dismounted, revert to “Quiet Persistence.” Your quiet persistence is the real “That will profit you not.” It discourages the horse _without punishing him_.

Punishment does have its place in the training scheme, with some horses more clearly than with others – but even then it should be used only occasionally. Do not revert to punishment when you are trying to teach the horse something new. It upsets the horse and destroys the calmness so essential to his taking-in a new lesson. So punishments are “out” when teaching any new lesson.


_*End of Lesson*


End of Lesson is the best, most effective and most convenient of all rewards and encouragements._


What End of Lesson means:

When teaching a horse almost anything at all – no matter what it is, “End of Lesson” means a pause, a break, a rest for a while – or even, on some occasions, completely finishing the work for the day _at the moment_ the horse has made or is making progress in a lesson.

_At the very instant_ of the action that constitutes progress, the teacher ends the lesson – for a while, at least.

Ending a lesson constitutes a reward, an encouragement, an incentive to the horse to try to follow and understand what is being taught to him.


_*The End-of-Lesson procedure is probably the most important procedure in the scheme of horse training.*_


We use the End-of-Lesson technique from the first day our young horse is yarded and continue using it to the last day of his schooling.

_End-of-Lesson_ is always available for use.

Because it is easy for the horse to understand, it keeps him calm and so leads to the greatest progress. When the horse is calm, the most permanent impressions are made on his mind.

End-of-Lesson is of equal value to the trainer. It keeps him looking for and recognising progress as the horse tries first one thing and then another. He looks for progress to encourage – rather than “stupidity” to punish.


“_*Old Hat”*_

“Old Hat” is another expression I will repeatedly use to indicate the horse's attitude to a previous experience. He (I pretend) says: “Old Hat!” whenever he is asked to do, again, something he has already proved to be not objectionable.

The “Old Hat” technique is literally used in hundreds of ways – as you will read later on. It means we do something (or get the horse to do something) new – and then before anything can go wrong or he becomes upset, we “End-the-Lesson.”

Next time he is in a similar position, he remembers nothing unpleasant resulted from the first occasion, and he remains calm. A few repetitions and he accepts it (whatever it is) as “Old Hat.”

An instance: we separate a foal from its dam for a few moments. Before the foal has time to become very excited at finding itself alone, we put them together again. Tomorrow or on some other occasion, we separate them again and once more put them together after a short period. We do this several times and after a while the foal ceases to worry. “It's 'Old Hat' - nothing to worry about, we'll get together again later on!” seems to be the reaction.

_This is a characteristic of the horse._ Recognise it and keep it in mind. From it we learn _*to repeat lessons rather than to prolong*_ them – particularly if what we are doing or getting the horse to do is exciting or frightening to him.


_*Use of the Voice in Teaching *_*(excerpt)*

The use of the voice can be very useful at times to let the horse know when he is on the right track, particularly in the early dismounted work. There are scores of things you do not want him to do on any occasion and he may try quite a number of them. To each attempt you gently say “No,” “No,” and you quietly and gently persist with your demands.

Think and act gently and kindly – for he is trying. Say , “No,” “No,” gently and quietly, but in a manner he could not possibly confuse with your “Purring” (pleasant tone of voice for reinforcing correct behaviour, “That's _right_, _clever_ boy...” etc).

The voice can convey to him “Approved” or “Not Approved” almost simultaneously with his action, and under all circumstances – mounted or dismounted.

There's no end to the number of things you do NOT want him to do and he may try out a few of them or all of them. To each attempt you should gently indicate to him: “Not that,” “Not that.” Or better still, think, “Not that, Boy;” think gently, think kindly; he is trying.

Most important of all, when he does show the slightest tendency to do the ONE thing you _do_ want, you must instantly change your “tune” and substitute, “That's right,” or “That's better, clever Boy...clever Boy.” Then “End of Lesson” - have a rest.


_The really important thing is your ability to show approval or disapproval instantly._


Two seconds later will be too late. Sometimes the youngster will have tried so many things that if your approval is late he will have difficulty in knowing what _did_ please you.

If you use the same purring tone always – and instantly – and only to show approval, you will find he relaxes the instant you begin to use it. When mounted you can FEEL him relax under you, and you'll be able to imagine him thinking: “That's good! Struck it at last. Now, exactly what DID I do to please the man?”


*A LESSON IS ANYTHING YOU TEACH YOUR HORSE – GOOD OR BAD*

Every experience the young horse has becomes a lesson. If what he learns is useful to us, we like to call it “training”or “education.” But if what he learns is a nuisance or dangerous, we often brand it a “vice.”

(Roberts goes on to describe how people unwittingly form vices in horses by letting up - “Ending-the-Lesson” - at the wrong moment, by creating situations where that can easily occur, by punishing horses, by ill-fitting and painful gear, by expecting instant perfection rather than immediately encouraging _small progress in the right direction_, thereby confusing the horse, etc.- and what to do about it when this has already happened. And that's only the start of the book – some basics, before meticulously covering safety of horse and handler, age at education, groundwork, lunging, early ridden training, teaching basic dressage, light hand-light mouth, impulsion, traffic, shying, spookiness, and teaching to trailer. More advanced training – higher-level dressage, jumping, etc is covered in the sequel.)


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