# Help!



## Light (Mar 4, 2012)

Hi. That is the problem with getting involved with other people's horses. I am sorry. Unless you were able to buy him, there is nothing that you can do other than continue as is or stop riding him and lease the other horse. The owner of the other horse could turn out the same as this one. 


Do you pay to lease him? Are the barn chores part of your lease agreement? Is there life outside of horses?


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## Sfriedman (Nov 24, 2016)

I do have a life outside of him, and his chores are apart of my agreement but I still pay a little bit for the use of her trailer and facility. But she continues to ask me to take care of the rest of her horses on a regular basis. 

My lease is weird, I have all of the tack, I oversee farrier visits, I do chiropractic work and take care of him at night, and she does the morning. If he needs something it's on my to provide it

I just can't imagine giving him up, but I don't know if it's worth her being a horrible person a lot of the time


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## Light (Mar 4, 2012)

Seems to me that either you have a sit down talk with her explaining that you cannot do additional work outside of what you had both agreed on at the time you decided to lease him, or you stop leasing him. It is a decision only you can make.


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## Sfriedman (Nov 24, 2016)

I'm just struggling to decide if it's worth it, and how much more of her crap I can take. Thank you for your help! This is so difficult, I don't think I can stand to lose him


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## MyxDappledxBay (Nov 22, 2016)

Honestly, stick up for yourself. I have always had social anxiety and sticking up for myself has always been hard on me. But I was in a similar situation to yours. My trainer/BO was the same way, and finally one day, I had had enough. I wasn't rude, but I was straight forward. And from that day forward, I've been a lot better at sticking up for myself, and she wasn't that way with me anymore.

And there isn't any reason to be afraid of talking to her. The worst she can do is get mad. Tell her how you feel, and I"m sure she would understand. And, if you can afford it, ask her if she would sell him. 

I hope this helps


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## Sfriedman (Nov 24, 2016)

Thank you, I think I'm going to talk to her today


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

It sounds like you are young?

Horses come and go. There have been many horses I have loved who either got sold, or some how fell out from under me. Every single horse has something to teach you! Don't be afraid to be move on.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

If you are inclined to buy him ask her to sell him before you bring up other stuff.


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## Sfriedman (Nov 24, 2016)

I can't buy him, I can't have a horse when I go off to college. And yes I'm fairly young. I just know he's the perfect horse for me. And giving him up just doesn't make sense. He does everything and is an amazing show horse, and I don't think I'll find another all around horse like him for the rest of my life.


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## Bright Stride Equine (Oct 20, 2016)

Sfriedman said:


> I'm just struggling to decide if it's worth it, and how much more of her crap I can take. Thank you for your help! This is so difficult, I don't think I can stand to lose him


You have got some really good advice from everyone here. I just wanted to share a quote that has helped me countless times when faced with an impossible decision:

*"Change happens, when the pain of staying the same is greater than the pain of moving forward."*

The word 'pain' could also be replaced with 'fear', depending on the situation. Best of luck to you and your lease horse.

Cait


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## CaliforniaDreaming (May 8, 2011)

Sfriedman said:


> I'm just struggling to decide if it's worth it, and how much more of her crap I can take. Thank you for your help! This is so difficult, I don't think I can stand to lose him


Been there, done that. 

I know it's hard when faced with a situation like this. I was in a similar spot myself at one point while leasing a lovely little mare that was boarded at my barn, after my first heart horse had died. Her owner lived out of town (never met him, my sole contact was through email and phone) so I was pretty much in charge of her care, and paid out of pocket for a number of things she required. I took care of her like she was my own, doted on her, loved her, got her back under saddle, and doing trails when she'd just been a pasture puff. I thought things were going great, that we'd get a lot accomplished, and really go places on life. 

I thought wrong. Her owner saw dollar signs. Big dollar signs. Wanted me to pay quite a bit. I couldn't at the time (I wasn't emotionally ready to own again) and wasn't really in a position to afford it financially, at least not for what he was asking for a grade horse who was really only back under saddle in riding condition because of all the work I'd put into her. Things got a little ugly. He said things he probably shouldn't have said in email, I made a sort of half hearted offer, he said more things he shouldn't have said... and I just didn't feel it was worth it putting myself through that turmoil and frustration. I was having trouble sleeping at night, I was not feeling well, it was emotionally hard to deal with. 

So I ended the lease. I gave my notice, and walked away. Not gonna lie. I thought it was the end of the world. I'd loved her, thought we had a future. But after the miscommunication I had been through, of having an owner who said it took "sacrifice" to own a horse. Uh yeah, I'd sacrificed big when I had to make the decision to euth my senior gelding when he colicked, I knew what it took, and it rubbed me the wrong way that an absentee owner was telling me it took a "willingness to go the extra yard to buy a horse and take care of it" when I was the one at the barn every day brushing that mare, or giving her the supplements I'd paid for -- well, it wasn't worth it. But it sure didn't hurt any less or make me feel any less depressed and upset over it. 

But walking away meant I didn't have to take the negativity. Three months later, I found my second horse, my special guy, without the bitterness and sniping that I'd endured with the mare. I didn't love that mare any less for it, but it was so much nicer to have been in the situation I was in with my gelding. 

And you know, I really got the last laugh in the end. Because I found the mare several years later, with new owners, and was able to get her back for keeps. I just gave her a big hug tonight, like I do every night. She's retired, and living the life of Riley because she's no longer rideable, but I am happy that we did get our happy ending. It just took some time. 

As far as advice for you, I can't really give you a yes or no. The only person who can determine if it really is worth it to. Put up with what you do in order to be with this horse is you. Making the choice to end the lease isn't necessarily a bad choice. There are other horses out there, no matter how special this one seems. Great horses come and go into our lives, it's just how we choose to learn from them and treasure them that matters. 

Good luck.


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## Sfriedman (Nov 24, 2016)

Thank you all for your help. I'm still undecided, but if I do decide to give him up it will be the hardest thing I've had to do


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## Sfriedman (Nov 24, 2016)

The way I can best describe the feelings I have for him is imagine the horse you dreamed of as a little kid. The perfect horse that can win it all and loves you and follows you like a dog. That's my (lease) horse. I Trust him with my life, he's the horse that'll win a 2"6 jump off and then go to a breed show for english/western pleasure the next day. We've made it to state championships after being a pair for 2 months. I take care of him on a regular basis, he's mine accept for the fact that my name isn't on the contract. I give him his medicine and the owner does nothing. I'm not going to be able to do anything more than a full onsite/offsite lease until I'm out of college. And I'm scared that this horse will be the best I get


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## Mirantha (May 13, 2016)

Another option: Buy the horse & then consider leasing him to someone when you go to college.

If you don't own the horse it will always come down to having to live with whatever the actual owner does/wants. Even if you get this set of issues (somewhat) resolved, there is a high likelihood of bad feelings and/or future issues with them. Lots of stress.

If you are even remotely considering buying the horse, I would not bring up ANY complaints, just "be nice", then BUY THE HORSE and then you can do whatever you want, stress-free. 

Lastly, out of curiosity - What were you planning on doing about the LEASE when you go to college? 
If you were planning on ending it anyway, then sooner is probably better than later... Why drag out the stress and heartbreak?


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## Sfriedman (Nov 24, 2016)

For college he would he to old to ride, he's 24 right now, and he would be restored, and I would come back and visit him.


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## MyxDappledxBay (Nov 22, 2016)

Sfriedman said:


> I can't buy him, I can't have a horse when I go off to college. And yes I'm fairly young. I just know he's the perfect horse for me. And giving him up just doesn't make sense. He does everything and is an amazing show horse, and I don't think I'll find another all around horse like him for the rest of my life.


I understand how you feel. I thought the exact same thing about an old Arab I used to ride. He was a lesson horse I "leased", and when his owner told me he was selling his farm and the horses with it, I was heartbroken. I said I will never find a better horse in my life. 

But then I bought my boy. He is the best thing to ever happen. He his ten times better than the other horse, and I love him just as much. The point is, no matter how many horses you ride and say are the best, there is always one better. You will no doubt always love that horse, but you will find new ones to love as well. And at some point, he will die, not trying to be cruel, but there will come a time when you have to let all of the horses you have ridden go. It just so happens, now might be the time you have to let this one go to grow as a rider and move on.

Now, I don't know this lady, but is she a good horse owner? Some are better with horses than people. If she is, I say leave barns. She will take care of him, and ask her if you can visit him every now and then. But you shouldn't let her her use you like that. Everything happens for a reason, but who knows, maybe down the road, you will end up buying him. That's how I ended up with Vinny. I left a barn because of the trainer and I was upset because I loved him, as he was a lesson horse at the time, and 6 months later, he was mine. Maybe you will find another horse to ride. Everything happens for a reason. 

And again, there will come a time where you will have to move on. I hope this helps


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## Sfriedman (Nov 24, 2016)

That's another reason I'm reluctant to leave, I'm his primary care taker. She she's a **** (sorry for my language) horse person. She doesn't give him anything he needs, and right now he's lame, and it's on me to fix it. Her horses that get hurt don't get the attention they require


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## MyxDappledxBay (Nov 22, 2016)

Sfriedman said:


> That's another reason I'm reluctant to leave, I'm his primary care taker. She she's a **** (sorry for my language) horse person. She doesn't give him anything he needs, and right now he's lame, and it's on me to fix it. Her horses that get hurt don't get the attention they require


Oh. I hate people like that who don't deserve to own horses. Honestly, if it is in the best interest of the horse, I would stay. I would go through hell and back for my boy. I know it goes against everything thing I said, but sometimes you have to take a beating for them. 

Again, talk to her. Ask her is she could better her behavior. If it doesn't go well, write back what she says and I will help you. I understand your situation. I've been there before.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Awww, that's a tough situation to be in.  I'm also leasing a horse that's pretty much my world, only difference is it's my trainer's & she is nothing like your horse's owner. Ugh. Hmmm. If I was in your shoes, I'd definitely sit down & talk with her about everything.
She can't put EVERYTHING on you. At the end of the day, she completely owns the horse. She shouldn't make you do everything. Leasing does not mean everything falls on the person leasing. Seems like she doesn't want to take responsibility, & it's easier for you to do it. Definitely talk to her. Explain to her how much he means to you as well.


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## Sfriedman (Nov 24, 2016)

It's definitely in my horses best interest to stay. The conditions her horses are in are borderline abuse. And I don't want my lease horse in her care. They have dry lots (not sure why) and because of the rain it's almost 3 inches of mud. He has a shelter to leave the mud and stay out of the rain and that's it. That's a totally different post. It's just super hard to think about her caring for him


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## mred (Jan 7, 2015)

Interesting question. At what age do you think that they will retire this horse from riding? And what would stop them from putting the horse up for sale or sending it to auction? Ask for a purchase option. They see a good horse that has won awards and worth money. But the awards are yours. Yes, you were on a good horse. But I have seem as lot of good horses look real bad with a bad rider. In my life, I had to put down or sell more than a few horses. Some were good, some great. You will always remember the great ones, but that does not mean that you don't move on, if that is the best thing.


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## Sfriedman (Nov 24, 2016)

She won't sell him, because he's a tax right off. And sadly I'm still at the age where my parents still make my final descisions, and they don't want a horse. He's a very good horse, and that's why I'm struggling to move on


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## Sfriedman (Nov 24, 2016)

And he was retired, but he was going crazy from not being worked. So when he no longer wants to be worked and used (or when I leave for college) they will try to retire him again


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## CaliforniaDreaming (May 8, 2011)

Sfriedman said:


> It's definitely in my horses best interest to stay. The conditions her horses are in are borderline abuse. And I don't want my lease horse in her care. *They have dry lots (not sure why) and because of the rain it's almost 3 inches of mud. He has a shelter to leave the mud and stay out of the rain and that's it*. That's a totally different post. It's just super hard to think about her caring for him


I'm kind of curious here, but why would dry lots with just a shelter be considered "borderline abuse"? Also, three inches of mud isn't as bad as it sounds. That's not very deep (like the length of my pinky from the tip to just past the first knuckle. Not every horse "needs" a stall. My two are drylotted (helllllo California drought) with open sided shelters and raised platforms for them to stand on on the extremely rare occasion we have rain and encounter mud. And they're as happy as any horse can be. 

I'm just not sure I'm seeing the need for alarm here.


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## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

How is he a tax write off for her? This I'm not understanding :-? we write off some of my mare's expenses (mainly show fees) as we are enrolled in an incentive fund, and receive money from the state for showing. But I don't write everything off.

If 3 inches is abuse, then man. My poor baby is very abused :-? long as everyone is fed and healthy, and has adequate shelter, then he's fine.

I leased numerous horses growing up. Loved all of them. Let every single one go. Had to. My parents were not interested in owning a horse while I was in college. It sucked, and I hated it. But honestly, I wouldn't be the horsewoman I am today had it not been for learning this. And I finally got my own horse when I was 24. She was well worth the wait.

This is a tough learning experience to go through, but that is kind of the down fall of leasing. You have to give the animal back (unless it was an agreed upon "he's leased to you until he dies" kind of thing.)


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## Sfriedman (Nov 24, 2016)

Sorry I didn't make that clear, my horse is the only one who has shelter because I made Sure he had it. The rest of the horses stand in the Michigan rain 24/7 without any protection. My horses paddock only has 3 inches of mud because I layered dry dirt to save his feet. I walked into another paddock and sunk to the top of my muck boots. They are fed, and that's it. They have the ability to be in grass, she just doesn't keep them there. There is at least 1 acre of unused grass space just sitting there. 

And the government gives her a little bit of a tax write off because she is the varsity equestrian coach, at least that's what she told me


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

It's definitely a tough and unhappy situation, but I think you need to stand up for yourself. 

I once heard someone say "Horses are easy to love". And it's certainly true. I never thought I'd love a horse and feel a connection like I did with Raven, and along came Buddy. After Buddy died, I worked with a little mini mare I fell in love with, whose owner eventually sold her when I was going through a divorce. And now I have Sully, who I'm slowly developing a relationship with. I've worked with many others over the years, too. 

One thing I've learned is that there's always another horse waiting to teach you something, either about horses or yourself. Raven was the teacher who taught me to ride. Buddy was the saint who pulled me out of a deep, dark pit of fear. And now Sully is teaching me to teach him, and to be confident in my own skills.


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## Sfriedman (Nov 24, 2016)

He's such a great all around horse. He will do anything under the sun, and I don't know if I'll find something like that again. but I completely agree that every horse has something to teach. I just don't want his fate to be like the rest of the owners horses. I'm very strongly thinking about calling the humane society for animal abuse. It's horrible out there.


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## CaliforniaDreaming (May 8, 2011)

Word of caution here, OP. 

I get that you're young and all, but you should be really careful about what you say on the internets. Because once it's there, it's there forever. I would be very very careful regarding accusations of "abuse" because those kinds of things can and will come back to haunt you. You never know who is reading the board and you've given enough information in various posts that someone could put two and two together. As someone who leases a horse, you need to be as diplomatic as possible in any form of communication regarding the horse because while most owners won't necessarily get upset, there are some owners who do not like someone essentially smack about 'em talking behind their back. 

I'm not saying this to be mean or anything, so don't take it the wrong way, but I do speak from experience, knowing that things I've said online can affect me. Long story short, I had posted a reply to someone online asking about riding lessons, had mentioned my former trainer as a possible contact and said "old trainer" and my former trainer did manage to find it online in a web search on her name a few months later, she wasn't mad, she teased me that I called her 'old' as in old rather than old-no-longer-training-with but you can see how things we post do have a way of coming to the surface even if we think the internet is anonymous. 

Honestly, I think if you've gotten to this point where your relationship with the owner of your lease horse is what it is now, my advice is to walk away. I don't know if conditions at the barn are as bad as you claim, the forum here only has your word to go on it, and there are always different points of view regarding any situation, and I know you mean well, and have the horse's best interests at heart, but there is some bias in your relating the situation here on the forum. You would be better served leasing or riding in a more positive environment rather than letting resentment and edgey relationships sour your riding experiences. Trust me, I've been there. And it's hard, but sometimes, you just need to walk away.


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

Sfriedman said:


> He's such a great all around horse. He will do anything under the sun, and I don't know if I'll find something like that again. but I completely agree that every horse has something to teach. I just don't want his fate to be like the rest of the owners horses. I'm very strongly thinking about calling the humane society for animal abuse. It's horrible out there.


That's not even close to abuse. Wow, they don't have cover, how horrible! No, plenty of horses live long full lives with no shelters. Most of the big farms in KY don't have shelters besides the barns. As long as the horses are healthy and a fine weight, they're a-okay. Just leave, there are plenty of good horses out there.

Also FYI, on top of what CaliforniaDreaming said, and not to be be creepy, but your username and the fact that you gave out your Insta makes you super easy to identify.


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## Sfriedman (Nov 24, 2016)

Thank you, I never thought about that! I want to walk away so badly, I just can't bring myself to do it. My parents have been strongly thinking about buying this horse, which would solve all of my problems. But she has no intension of selling him. And yea the conditions out there are definitely not good, I'm also at the point where I'm not enjoying being there, and I think that's a tell tale sign to leave


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## Sfriedman (Nov 24, 2016)

EliRose said:


> Sfriedman said:
> 
> 
> > He's such a great all around horse. He will do anything under the sun, and I don't know if I'll find something like that again. but I completely agree that every horse has something to teach. I just don't want his fate to be like the rest of the owners horses. I'm very strongly thinking about calling the humane society for animal abuse. It's horrible out there.
> ...



Most if the horses aren't the healthiest, an besides my horses paddock, they are not almost up to there knees in mud (I just went to go see the horses today, and it's been drizzling for weeks now) they get fed off the mud/poop. It's definitely not all about the no shelter, there are so many more problems. 

Honestly if someone I know finds me here, I'm not worried, but I will change my username so I'm not as easy to track. Thanks for the heads up!


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

That's still not even CLOSE to abuse. You'd be calling the cops on me if you saw how my horse lives! Mud doesn't equal abuse hon, even if it is high. They'll live. And wow, eating off the ground? Horses? Imagine that . . . FYI, it is healthier for horses to eat off the ground.

You know what abuse would be? If they WERE NOT being fed.


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## Sfriedman (Nov 24, 2016)

That's not all. Theirs a horse that is injured and is on stalk rest. Her stall hasn't been cleaned in a month. I think she finally gave the horse to someone. The water is never cleaned.

Maybe my idea of neglect/abuse is different. Non the less it's a not a pleasant situation over there. And I don't know how to move on


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## CaliforniaDreaming (May 8, 2011)

Sfriedman said:


> That's not all. Theirs a horse that is injured and is on stalk rest. Her stall hasn't been cleaned in a month. I think she finally gave the horse to someone. The water is never cleaned.
> 
> Maybe my idea of neglect/abuse is different. Non the less it's a not a pleasant situation over there. And I don't know how to move on


It's hard to determine abuse/neglect though, since it's a little subjective in a hearsay (he said/she said) situation and honestly, you do have an inherent bias against this owner for owning the horse and not wanting to sell, sooo... there's always going to be skeptics. That's just the way it is, not taking any sides because there's not really any sides to take. 

You move on by not going to see the horse, your parents stop paying the bills, you find another barn to ride at, and life goes on. There will *always* be another horse. As the saying goes, when one door closes, another opens.

I thought my life was over when I lost my heart horse in 2007, but I got a nice opportunity to ride a great little mare for a while, and even though that didn't pan out the way I'd hoped and it ended in a lot of disappointment, I still had the opportunity to ride and enjoy her for the five months I had her. And then I got my golden boy, and even welcomed that little mare back into my life. As I said, there is always another horse out there, the right one comes along when the time is right. 

Thank the owner for their time and the opportunity to ride, hug the horse and go seek other positive riding experiences. You do not want to create drama, if there's one thing I've learned, the horse world is small enough that it can be very very easy to burn bridges or gain a negative reputation. I've been riding and involved with horses for 2/3rds of my life (which is greater than 20 years in total) and I've learned, being as professional and diplomatic as possible is the best way to approach any situation. 

If what you are looking for is validation and sympathy, and for people to say she [the owner] is wrong and bad, you are right and good ... I don't think that's going to happen. BUT you have gotten a lot of good advice from people on how to move on, and how to find acceptance and closure. Hopefully that will help in your equestrian career, which is the best thing about riding -- there's always opportunity out there.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

my sil's 25 year old horse lives in a round pen with no shelter, not even a tree and has for 3 years, eats off the ground and drinks out of a barrel. same even when its 114F out side or raining. i would not want it for my horses but its not abuse. abuse is starving them, not treating illness/injuries, Beating them nor no reason. intentionally injuring them and so on. muddy conditions are NOT ideal but it happens. my pens get muddy after a rain even WITH covers. they dry out eventually. Unless the horses look half dead leave it be.

if you want to see want real neglect is look up ISPMB horses.


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## Sfriedman (Nov 24, 2016)

Maybe abuse is a stretch but I think I'm quite bias because of everything else negative, but for sure its not ideal. 

I just hate leaving him. It's a decision only I can make, but he offers so much


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

If the horse has a rain cover that he can get under if he chooses he is fine, Unless he is body clipped . If he has enough hay to eat and a winter coat, he will stay warm. Rain may not be good for the feet when it is constant and never dries out, but hard dry ground can be just as bad. A horse will tear up a wet pasture so that is probably why they are not on it. A horse up to the knees in mud and feces.. is abuse, but a horse that deep would not be moving much. It maybe splashed up to the knees and that is not abuse. My pens get muddy and if the horse rolls then it is a huge mess but not abuse. I would like to see photos of what you are calling abuse. My horses have rain covers and or shade for the heat in summer, and very few stand under the rain covers. They will stand in the back pasture, in the 100+ degree heat, a couple will stand in the shade from the trees. 
If part of your lease is to care for the horse, then clean the pen. If you feel you are being taken advantage of, then either speak to the owner, or leave. 
I prefer my horses to eat off mats and not just the bare dirt, as head down is the natural way for a horse to eat, for many many reasons. 
Do not get overly emotional when you speak the owner.


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## Emiloo (Dec 9, 2016)

That is not abuse I have rescued many horses from abusive homes. Abuse is if they aren't being fed and if they aren't getting watered or being physically abused. Them being out in the rain and eating off the ground is nothing they are horses. At one point horses were wild and had to stand out in the rain and eat off the ground. Those horses at that farm aren't being abused.


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## Sfriedman (Nov 24, 2016)

Another update, the stalls haven't been cleaned in months and water isn't being provided as regularly. As much as I adore this horse and the bond we have, as cheesy as that sounds, is something I never thought possible. He follows me and jumps around when he sees me. It's time for me to leave, the bass outweigh the goods


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## Dehda01 (Jul 25, 2013)

Then leave. There are other leases. You will miss him and have some good cries, but it isn't worth staying in a bad place with a person you don't like or trust. Then go find a trainer you can trust to continue your riding journey with. Call animal control if stalls haven't been done in months and water is an issue.


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## CaliforniaDreaming (May 8, 2011)

Dehda01 said:


> Then leave. There are other leases. You will miss him and have some good cries, but it isn't worth staying in a bad place with a person you don't like or trust. Then go find a trainer you can trust to continue your riding journey with. Call animal control if stalls haven't been done in months and water is an issue.


^^^^ That. 

And some advice. When you move on to other venues, and explore other options, don't say anything negative about your previous barn. Keep it positive and on you (i.e. "You want to try X to improve Y and think So-and-so can help you do that", etc.) Just say you learned what you needed to at the old place, gained some experience, and you're moving on in your riding endeavors.


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## Sfriedman (Nov 24, 2016)

I'm talking to my parents about buying him. That would be the perfect solution, I just need to convince the owner to sell him


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