# Backyard breeding... It bugs me.



## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

ughh yea agreed


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## MuleWrangler (Dec 15, 2009)

In our area there are a lot of folks advertising their studs and they go on about how great they are and how awesome their babies will be. You look at the picture and the poor skinny, ewe-necked, cow-hocked, very-poorly conformed horse looks nothing like their glowing description. A guy in our area even has a stud that reminds me of a copperhead--all snaky and mean and poor conformation and he cycles him through all of his mares just as soon as they've dropped their last foals. It's really sad.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

The funny thing is that some of the people on this BB who rant about BYBs are doing the *very same thing*.

Of course, they justify it by saying they just want a foal for themselves and it's never, ever, nuh-uh going to be for sale. As if they have a crystal ball and know that they'll be able to care for the animal forever.

Breeding a mare because she's 'sweet', her owner says the mare 'wants to be a mommy', or someone wants 'a piece of her' to live on after she dies, are some of the more ridiculous reasons I've ever heard for breeding.

Breeding without any clue as to how the two individuals will mesh genetically and conformationally, breeding ONLY for selfish reasons and not with the idea of producing a superior foal, and looking for a stallion based on color or an inexpensive stud fee alone all make me want to rip out my hair. And yet, every day on this and other BBs, I see it numerous times.

Unless someone has a_ clear_ goal in mind for a particular foal with a particular breeding, then it's completely inadvisable and amazingly selfish to bring another horse into the world. Especially since we're already overflowing with fugly, ill conformed pieces of garbage that somebody just HAD to breed because they WANTED to.

Just because someone has a mare doesn't mean she needs to be bred, and MOST stallions need to be geldings. Not some, MOST.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

^^^ Couldn't agree more. You want a baby horse - buy one! There are plenty in need out there. People are giving horses away left and right just trying to get homes for them. I have *2* horses now that "were thrown in the deal free" when I bought my young colt (his dam, AND she was bred back before I got her, and just gave birth to a filly) because the owner had too many horses and not enough finances. But still had the mares pastured with the stallion to make more babies, WHILE she was having to give horses away. Geez, where the heck is your brain? BYB's, in both the horse AND dog world are a huge pet peeve of mine.


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

Just for clarification- what do you consider a BYB?


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

eventerdrew said:


> Just for clarification- what do you consider a BYB?


I was about to say the same thing....


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

...So does this mean that horses should only be allowed to breed in the FRONT yard?...


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

Dogs and cats annoy me far more than horses. Probably because they have more offspring and produce at a faster rate. I think something should be done about the amount of puppies and kittens back yard breeders pump out into the world. Only reputable breeders should be breeding until there is a demand.


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

and again I ask... what do you consider a reputable breeder?


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

I consider a backyard breeder someone with out
a( the means to financially cover any and all expenses accrued by a pregnant mare both during gestation and during delivery, and any potential issues with the foal afterward
b( adequate and safe facilities for the pregnant mare and foal 
c( a specific goal for the foal other than to just have a baby, 
also d( someone who breeds just to sell and does not take the time to find a suitable stallion mare pair to breed for specific traits and performance 
e( someone who breeds for emotional reasons


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

^Or someone who breeds just cuz they have a mare and stally at their disposal


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

To add to Honeysuga's points:

f) someone who breeds horses together regardless of breed or quality, just to "make a baby"
g) someone who assumes because they like their horse, and think it's pretty, that makes it breeding quality, without seeking, or ignoring outside opinion

Marks of a good/reputable breeder:

Proves their horse has a REASON to reproduce, generally through showing or working competition, or their horse proves itself in the working ranch environment

Gains OUTSIDE opinion that their horses are of breeding quality

Has horses vetted, up to date, performs health screening and std checks before breeding

Is able to provide proof that their breeding stock has been tested and is free of any/all genetic diseases particular to their breed and that they are breeding sound animals

Seeks to match animals for breeding together that best compliment and compensate for each other's shortcomings, rather than breeding to the animal that is "cheapest" or "closest"

And, particularly in the case of dogs - sticks with one freaking breed!


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

^ OH yes, all those lhasa-poos, jack-a-poodles....ugh! I can breed my JRT to my (now neutered, but you get the point) yellow lab, but would I just to create a fun new "jack-a-lab"? NO, because I consider myself a responcible pet owner.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

Yes, that is one often overlooked, most quality breeders stick to one or two breeds. Often if there are 4,5,+ breeds/ species coming from one breeder it is a critter mill/byb.

That is one thing that gets me, giving mix breed animals a name to make them seem something other than a mutt. Cockapoos, puggles, pintabians, quarabs, why dont you just call it what it is, a mix breed...


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

LOL you mean the Heinz 57 pups?


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

oh, agreed, the designer dogs being a whole separate horrible can of worms in my book, I hate it when I see a pugs, poodles, shih tzus, chins, maltese, yorkies, and st bernards ALL advertised from the same breeder.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

equiniphile said:


> ^ OH yes, all those lhasa-poos, jack-a-poodles....ugh! I can breed my JRT to my (now neutered, but you get the point) yellow lab, but would I just to create a fun new "jack-a-lab"? NO, because I consider myself a responcible pet owner.


Ohohoh, don't even get me started on the designer breeds. It's the same as people thinking every draft cross must be a warmblood. Call a spade a spade, for chrissakes. I have absolutely nothing against mixed bred dogs OR horses, hell ALL my horses are crossbred. But I don't feel the need to be pretentious and pass them off as anything but the mutts they are. It doesn't make me love them any less.



(sorry, I get riled. I breed dogs, and have put an immense amount of money, effort, learning and genetic research into breeding very, very GOOD dogs. I hate those that give dog breeders a bad name.)


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

Exacty Indy. When you breed an animal you should throw your whole life into it, you should learn as much as you can about it and the possible genetic diseases that come with it. I dont know about you but it is hard enough to trying to get to know everything about 1(or 2) breed/species let alone the 5 or 6+ some people mill out...


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

A reputable breeder is someone who takes responsibility for the animals they reproduce. I had two Dalmatians growing up. One from a very reputable breeder and one from the guy down the road. There was a brief period of time when we thought we'd have to re-home our dogs due to financial reasons. The reputable breeder offered to take our (spayed) dog back no problems. The guy down the street told me take the dog to the pound.

A reputable breeder would make sure that the person getting a puppy (for example) was knowledgeable about the breed or at least willing to learn. This would prevent so many dogs being homeless. 

A reputable breeder makes sure their puppies leave with shots, de-wormed and proper socialization. 

A reputable breeder looks out for the betterment of the breed, including function, good genes and temperament. They don't breed because of color or size. (100 plus lb "Pit Bulls" and 6 ounce Chihuahuas)

A reputable breeder has their breeding stock tested for all possible defects to prevent future generations from having to deal with health problems. I'm not saying it's an exact science but it helps. 

They do not breed for money. In fact some come out even and some come out owing. They do not sell a puppy just because you have cash in your hand. 

They do not list their puppies on craigslist or kijiji or hoobly. They do not stick fliers on the grocery store's wall. They do not need to. 

They are knowledgeable about their breed. They can answer your questions and tell you what to expect. They are willing to answer more question should they arise. 

They offer a health guarantee and a bill of sale. 

They would NEVER sell to a pet store. 

A back-yard-breeder:

Has several litters a year. 
Often the puppies are not registered. 
They do not care who buys the puppy.
Often the puppies do not have shots.
They don't think about the puppies futures. 
They make excuses for breeding "dog got out came home pregnant", "wanted to let my kids see puppies born", "my Poopsie is so sweet she should have puppies"....
Prices are usually cheaper.
Willing to sell to pet stores. 

Back yard breeders are the main reason why there is an epidemic of homeless pets. This is my opinion, take it as you may. It is what I believe and see. I have volunteered at high kill shelters. I have seen pregnant dogs, puppies, purebreds put in the garbage can. I cannot unsee what I have seen. I offer my home whenever a dog is in need but I can only take in so many and only do so much. Why do I have to clean up the mess that these people are creating? I just wish I could walk them through the shelters and show them what they are doing!


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Honeysuga said:


> Exacty Indy. When you breed an animal you should throw your whole life into it, you should learn as much as you can about it and the possible genetic diseases that come with it. I dont know about you but it is hard enough to trying to get to know everything about 1(or 2) breed/species let alone the 5 or 6+ some people mill out...


100% agree. Dedication to my breed is my life. In the ten years since I started down the road of deciding to breed my working collies, I've bred only 3 litters. My 4th will be this fall. I will NOT breed until my dogs have proven themselves as not just possessing, but excelling within the traits my breeding program is based on, have cleared that they not are not affected but also do not carry any genetic disease (no small task in itself, in the collie world where an est 90% of the genepool are carriers of CEA alone, and I test for 5 separate disorders). The parent club to this day still advocates the breeding of "mildly affected" dogs as a reasonable practise and movement towards eradicating genetic disease - despite the fact that it doesn't matter HOW affected a dog is, it's still a carrier, and dogs can be carriers even if they show NO symptoms. Dogs bred too big to work, too fluffy to go outside without getting hung up in the brush, and heads too narrow to encase their brains, thus quite literally "making them stupid". And a big one? I will not breed a litter until I have a waiting list long enough to be certain every single pup has an excellent and completely suitable home before it is even conceived. I currently have a waiting list of 25+ approved homes for my next two litters, and that is AFTER my enormous litter of 9 pups last year. I do no advertising outside a very basic website. My reputation is word of mouth and my dogs prove themselves. Out of my last litter of 9 pups, more than half (5 pups) had their AKC CGC by five months of age, which is a nationally recognized record.

Oh geez. Told you not to get me started. I'm going to go away before I REALLY start ranting *lol*


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## Citrus (Feb 26, 2010)

I want a baby and will buy it for sure.... I do not want to play the statistics/numbers/gamble with breeding. I want to see what I am getting.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

There are so many horses on Dream horse CraigsList and so on. I love looking. I have yet to find a single horse that I would actually buy for the price I can breed for. The ones around here in CL are scary and yet they breed them. Some are trying to sell b/c they have more coming. That one really ticks me off. If you can not keep them then do not breed more. If you can not get a good price for your foal and I am not taking $1K I am talking at the very least $2500 then do not breed. I see so many selling for $200. Why would you even breed a foal that you could not get even $200 for??

I also agree that there are a lot of people on these forums who breed who should not be. Yet every one thinks we must be nice and PC. 

Way too many color breeders I really hate when the first thing you see is someone asking about what color the foal will be. Who cares. I was looking at stallions for one of my mares the other day. Emailed several stallion owners. One that I some what liked I ruled out for one simple reason. The line about what color his foals are. If that is you clam to fame on your stallion....

Foundation breeders are anouther one of my pet peeves. If you are breeding for a % you are no better then the color breeders. I see this so much also. The first thing in the add is about what % their horse is. Again who cares. Each of my mares are very high % foundation. Yet That is not even on my list when looking at breeding them. Should never be either.

I could go on but I will stop now.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

nrhareiner said:


> Why would you even breed a foal that you could not get even $200 for??


Bravo



nrhareiner said:


> One that I some what liked I ruled out for one simple reason. The line about what color his foals are. If that is you clam to fame on your stallion....


Bravo



nrhareiner said:


> Again who cares. Each of my mares are very high % foundation. Yet That is not even on my list when looking at breeding them. Should never be either.


and BRAVO!!!!


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

The 2 stallions I am down to are both bays. Which means I will Get drum roll please.................. A BAY.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

Thank you for bringing up the point about color. I am a huge gaited horse enthusiast and always loved TWH for their disposition and talents, not their color. In the last 20 years TWHBEA has turned into a color producing machine. If its not something flashy, its not going to sell and I hate that. The best walker I ever rode (and he ended up being a WGC horse) was a flat sorrel. No white anywhere. Good conformation but with a signature walker head. But he was talented and good tempered. Since they have started in with the rainbow of colors, I've yet to run across a really outstanding walker. I guess its just me getting older and times are a-changin but when I was showing walkers, a palomino was a rare color. A "spotted saddle horse' was a once in a lifetime find.


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

I got Cin from a BYB, I'm pretty sure. She means well and did try to have a foundation for a good start, but things have gone awry from there. She has a BEAUTIFUL QH broodmare, a Doc's Cinch Bet great-grandaughter, bred by picky breeders specializing in western performance horses (I've researched Cin's QH bloodlines). Wonderful bloodlines and conformation. However...She is breeding her to no name paints trying to get a paint baby....only the QH mare has YET to throw anything with spots. So now she has about 7 "breeding stock" paints running around, all barely halter broke. It wouldn't be so bad if she got them trained up so that they could at least do their performance breeding on their Dam's side some justice....but alas, they are all pets.


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## sssmith (Apr 11, 2010)

Indyhorse said:


> ^^^ Couldn't agree more. You want a baby horse - buy one! There are plenty in need out there. People are giving horses away left and right just trying to get homes for them. I have *2* horses now that "were thrown in the deal free" when I bought my young colt (his dam, AND she was bred back before I got her, and just gave birth to a filly) because the owner had too many horses and not enough finances. But still had the mares pastured with the stallion to make more babies, WHILE she was having to give horses away. Geez, where the heck is your brain? BYB's, in both the horse AND dog world are a huge pet peeve of mine.


 
ooh ooh... I want to get in this one... 
IF you are wanting to have a baby for emotional reasons (??? which Im telling you, the only emotion Im feeling about it right now is stress), dont breed a mare u have no history on to a stallion u have no history on, go to the sale and buy a pregnant mare... then you have the same thing as if you were backyard breeding... you have no clue what the hell your gonna end up with... like me and Dusty. I totally took her in as a charity case, didnt want nor need a baby, and really couldn't afford one, but we got one anyway... so now were going to make the best of it. 
There are plenty of decent "grade" mares out there that are already bred, and this is the reason their owners run them through the sale... because they dont want the extras that come along with a foal... so for goodness sake, go save one that somebody already "backyard bred" and now their sendin it to the packer! 
I dont usually put in my two cents, but there you go.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

Someone posted about dogs, so I have to comment, lol. There are SOME designer dogs that actually had a purpose--like trying to make a more allergy friendly dog, or making a more versatile breed (the labradoodle is an example of that, IMO they are EXCELLENT dogs, I've never met one I didn't like) but some of the combinations are just stupid. Another thing, WHY do we need a 'toy' version of everything these days?!? 

Next thing you know, it'll catch on in the horse world and we'll start having minature thoroughbreds and quarter horses.

I think BYB's are why some people choose to stay away from "grade" horses. Although they're just as good, it perpetuates the cycle?


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

Backyard Breeder = the dolt who posted the Ad I saw on Craiglist this morning. Wanted a stud to live cover their mare. Listed a few breeds that they would "prefer" but said it didn't really matter as long as it was a really cheap stud fee since they didn't have much money.

I can only imagine what a "really cheap" stud would look like, I suppose the mare was really cheap too.... can you imagine the offspring!?


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## CheyAut (Nov 26, 2008)

nrhareiner said:


> The 2 stallions I am down to are both bays. Which means I will Get drum roll please.................. A BAY.


Depending on their genetics, you could also get black or chestnut 

I do NOT breed for color, but I AM horse color genetics obsessed, so I DO have an interest in knowing what color the foal could end up being, but just because of my curiousity, not because it matters


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## CheyAut (Nov 26, 2008)

justsambam08 said:


> Someone posted about dogs, so I have to comment, lol. There are SOME designer dogs that actually had a purpose--like trying to make a more allergy friendly dog,
> 
> There are plenty of purebred allergy friendly dogs. Labs are not one of those, so when you cross a poodle (which is) with a lab (which isn't), you really do NOT know what you'll get. (labradoodle just as an example)
> 
> ...


 
(won't let me post with my reply only in the quotes...)


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

justsambam08 said:


> Someone posted about dogs, so I have to comment, lol. There are SOME designer dogs that actually had a purpose--like trying to make a more allergy friendly dog, or making a more versatile breed (the labradoodle is an example of that, IMO they are EXCELLENT dogs, I've never met one I didn't like)


Technically the labradoodle STILL isn't a breed, no matter how many reckless half-assed registries are willing to take them on. The have never been able to get them to breed true. They have never given consistent breed traits, and they have never been consistently hypo-allergenic. They are a nice enough mixed-bred dog. Collie/shepherds also make very nice dogs - but they are still mutts and shouldn't be bred on purpose and charged a fortune for. 

And just for interest purposes - the person who pioneered the creation of the labradoodle breed recently released an "I'm sorry" statement and comments on how much he regrets ever starting the movement:

FOXNews.com - Labradoodle Pioneer Regrets Fashioning 'Designer Dog'


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

If you want a hypoallergenic dog, get a Poodle.

If you want a fairly large, hypoallergenic dog, get a standard Poodle.

Standards are lovely, intelligent, and very hardy dogs. My next dog is probably going to be a standard Poodle.

IMO, there's absolutely _no_ reason to breed mutts and call them 'designer' dogs. The people who will pay an exorbitant price for mutts are idiots.

The Puggle is one that gets my goat. Yeah, let's take a Pug and a Beagle and mate 'em! You usually get a dog who has trouble breathing, and bays when they get excited. How is _that_ desirable? 

I bought my Great Dane from a very reputable breeder. She makes _no_ money on her dogs, and is in it for the sheer love of and desire to improve the breed.

She requires vet and personal references, and she gives a 2 year heath guarantee on her puppies. She also tells people if they can't keep their dog, she'll take it back no questions asked.

She only breeds one or two litters a year, always has a waiting list, and many of her buyers are return customers. 

_That's_ a reputable breeder.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Speed Racer said:


> IStandards are lovely, intelligent, and very hardy dogs. My next dog is probably going to be a standard Poodle.


Agreed! Standard poodles are lovely, hardy, and very athletic, intelligent dogs! Tremendously under-credited breed. I have a Standard that comes to me for herding. She's titled in agility, obedience, she has competed in several field hunting trials, AND she is currently halfway to her herding title! You don't get more versatile then that!

Why in the world would you cross that with a lab (no offense to lab owners) and think you are making an improvement?


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

justsambam08 said:


> Someone posted about dogs, so I have to comment, lol. There are SOME designer dogs that actually had a purpose--like trying to make a more allergy friendly dog, or making a more versatile breed (the labradoodle is an example of that, IMO they are EXCELLENT dogs, I've never met one I didn't like)


Why there are already dogs out there that fit these bills. There are already dogs who do not shed. There are already dogs who are hypoallergenic. There is a breed that will do what ever it is you need them to do. There is no need to cross breed a dog. Plus you have NO guarantee you will get what you THINK you are breeding for.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Indy, were you aware that several years ago there was a team of standard Poodles in the Iditarod?

They didn't win, but they did finish the competition. Now go on and tell me that Poodles are 'wimpy'!


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

CheyAut said:


> Depending on their genetics, you could also get black or chestnut
> 
> I do NOT breed for color, but I AM horse color genetics obsessed, so I DO have an interest in knowing what color the foal could end up being, but just because of my curiousity, not because it matters



I do not breed for color either. However there is NO other option with this cross. The mare is EEAA


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## goldilockz (Aug 1, 2008)

I love my "hybrid" dog. He is half beagle, half jack russel (jack beagle? beaussle?) and he cost me a $50 donation from a rescue organization. He's a mutt, plain and simple, and he's lumpy and has extra toes, and I wouldn't trade him for the most expensive designer dog in the world.


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

lacyloo said:


> ...So does this mean that horses should only be allowed to breed in the FRONT yard?...


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, very nice :lol:. 


eventerdrew said:


> and again I ask... what do you consider a reputable breeder?


Mhmm, I was going to go with this too...


Honeysuga said:


> I consider a backyard breeder someone with out
> a( the means to financially cover any and all expenses accrued by a pregnant mare both during gestation and during delivery, and any potential issues with the foal afterward
> b( adequate and safe facilities for the pregnant mare and foal
> c( a specific goal for the foal other than to just have a baby,
> ...


*Nods head*, Agreed.


equiniphile said:


> ^Or someone who breeds just cuz they have a mare and stally at their disposal


Yep, stallions especially. I'm not totally sure why we bash stallions more than mares (probably because it's easier to chop off 2 nuts than surgically remove a uterus.. Or however mares are spayed), but most of these "great studs" either need to be dinner, or a cute gelding  .


Indyhorse said:


> To add to Honeysuga's points:
> 
> f) someone who breeds horses together regardless of breed or quality, just to "make a baby"
> g) someone who assumes because they like their horse, and think it's pretty, that makes it breeding quality, without seeking, or ignoring outside opinion
> ...


For the bold text: yep, that about hits every aspect on the nose..
For the red text: Oh yeah, you have no idea! We had an accident litter (my ***** was in heat [at a year old], and a 10 mo. Wiener dog managed to get it in.. and BAM puppies. I hate that little dog.. He ruined my *****..), and people went nuts over the yorkie/dacshound cross. We named the cross "Dorkies". My ***** is now spayed. 


ShutUpJoe said:


> A reputable breeder is someone who takes responsibility for the animals they reproduce. I had two Dalmatians growing up. One from a very reputable breeder and one from the guy down the road. There was a brief period of time when we thought we'd have to re-home our dogs due to financial reasons. The reputable breeder offered to take our (spayed) dog back no problems. The guy down the street told me take the dog to the pound.
> 
> A reputable breeder would make sure that the person getting a puppy (for example) was knowledgeable about the breed or at least willing to learn. This would prevent so many dogs being homeless.
> 
> ...


I do agree with most of this, but our puppies (second and last litter from the *****) we're registered, vet checked, socialized, got their shots, and we placed an ad in the paper to sell the pups. We sold for $1,000 a pup, and $750 for one that was large and had a high chance of hip displaysia (sp?). I regret breeding my dog, but were we "good" owners/BYB for doing the right thing for less desirable pups? We also worked a deal with the sire of the pups for a money/pup deal... I still wonder how the 9 pups Misha had are doing..


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

nrhareiner said:


> There are so many horses on Dream horse CraigsList and so on. I love looking. I have yet to find a single horse that I would actually buy for the price I can breed for. The ones around here in CL are scary and yet they breed them. Some are trying to sell b/c they have more coming. That one really ticks me off. If you can not keep them then do not breed more. If you can not get a good price for your foal and I am not taking $1K I am talking at the very least $2500 then do not breed. I see so many selling for $200. Why would you even breed a foal that you could not get even $200 for??
> 
> I also agree that there are a lot of people on these forums who breed who should not be. Yet every one thinks we must be nice and PC.
> 
> ...


YES YES YES! I agree so much with this..


Indyhorse said:


> Bravo
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hahahahahaha, totally, :lol:.


nrhareiner said:


> The 2 stallions I am down to are both bays. Which means I will Get drum roll please.................. A BAY.


I like bays.. Bays with nice shiny coats, a little chrome, and oh yeah, a pedigree that backs up their show record and conformation! 


justsambam08 said:


> Someone posted about dogs, so I have to comment, lol. There are SOME designer dogs that actually had a purpose--like trying to make a more allergy friendly dog, or making a more versatile breed (the labradoodle is an example of that, IMO they are EXCELLENT dogs, I've never met one I didn't like) but some of the combinations are just stupid. Another thing, WHY do we need a 'toy' version of everything these days?!?
> 
> Next thing you know, it'll catch on in the horse world and we'll start having minature thoroughbreds and quarter horses.
> *
> I think BYB's are why some people choose to stay away from "grade" horses. Although they're just as good, it perpetuates the cycle?*


For the red text: I don't like the cross, since it is just a cross, a hybrid, it's not a breed. No doubt the cross tends to be "excellent", that's just for some of the dogs. Some have traits that are.. viscous. Psychotic, even.
For the blue: how stupid, there really is no purpose for another miniature breed. The mini's we have today are just fine.
Bold text: Yeah, grade horses are fine in my book. I would like to breed my grade mare, although I have no idea what to do at this point. She's either lame or severely back sore.


Delfina said:


> *Backyard Breeder = the dolt who posted the Ad I saw on Craiglist this morning. Wanted a stud to live cover their mare. Listed a few breeds that they would "prefer" but said it didn't really matter as long as it was a really cheap stud fee since they didn't have much money.*
> 
> I can only imagine what a "really cheap" stud would look like, I suppose the mare was really cheap too.... can you imagine the offspring!?


It's just ignorance, pure ignorance. Sorry to say that, but it also may be a horse owner who is not well-educated about the horse-world.


CheyAut said:


> Depending on their genetics, you could also get black or chestnut
> 
> I do NOT breed for color, but I AM horse color genetics obsessed, so I DO have an interest in knowing what color the foal could end up being, but just because of my curiousity, not because it matters


I LOVE your foals, CheyAut!! You are one of my favorite breeders, you have serious knowledge about what you breed, you back it up by following genetics. All your horses are well conformed, have nice bloodlines, and all have a purpose. I hold a great amount of respect for you, not only as a breeder, but as a horse-woman.


Speed Racer said:


> If you want a hypoallergenic dog, get a Poodle.
> 
> If you want a fairly large, hypoallergenic dog, get a standard Poodle.
> 
> ...


YES YES YES YES YES!!


Indyhorse said:


> Agreed! Standard poodles are lovely, hardy, and very athletic, intelligent dogs! Tremendously under-credited breed. I have a Standard that comes to me for herding. She's titled in agility, obedience, she has competed in several field hunting trials, AND she is currently halfway to her herding title! You don't get more versatile then that!
> 
> Why in the world would you cross that with a lab (no offense to lab owners) and think you are making an improvement?


Again, my answer is _ignorance_...


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

ShannonSevenfold said:


> I came across this ad today:
> 
> QUARTER STALLION GRADE



Getting back to horses...

A grade mare with good conformation I can live with but never ever should there be grade stallions.


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

Spyder said:


> A grade mare with good conformation I can live with but never ever should there be grade stallions.


I have a question- and not that I don't disagree, I totally do! But I think we need to clear up WHY grade stallions are bad. My question- _*Why do we bash grade stallion 'more' than we get on grade mares?*_

Is it because..?


Stallions can produce more offspring than mares?
Stallions can become dangerous and be a hazard to people who "don't know what their doing"?
It is easier, and cheaper, to end a stallion's breeding carrier? (AKA gelding)
People just stink stallions are more of a 'risk' than mares..(Goes with hazardous but..)
It's simpler to bash a un-castrated male horse rather than an a female horse with working reproductive organs?
Or all of the above.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

I think Spyder's point (if she'll forgive me for putting words in her mouth - please correct me if I'm wrong) is that it's not common practise to have mares spayed. A mare with working reproductive organs does not automatically mean she will be bred. Mares are just fine as they are, they can be worked and useful either way.

Stallions on the other hand, have only one excuse in the world to be stallions as opposed to geldings, because castration is a common practice, and ALL male horses are better working/riding companions when they are gelded. Since grade horses happen, but are generally not the ideal, there is no reason to perpetuate them by having ANY male grade horse remain uncastrated. Every male grade horse SHOULD be castrated - thus, no grade stallions should exist.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

justsambam08 said:


> Next thing you know, it'll catch on in the horse world and we'll start having minature thoroughbreds and quarter horses.


Haha I just had to laugh xD:rofl:


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

We bash grade stallions because they still have that top-priority need-to-breed instinct whenever they see a mare. It's unfair to let them breed and produce more unwanted horses, and it's unfair to let them be around mares and not be allowed to breed! It's essentially cruelty, just teasing them with mares mares mares mares when they can't have them!

A grade mare doesn't go as wild over the stallions when they see them. The surgery is much more complicated to spray a mare than to geld a stally, and an unsprayed mare isn't as dangerous and unwanted as a grade stallion.

IMO.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

Here's a good way to look at it: 

If people didn't backyard breed what would half of this forum and the OP have to bi!tch about? xD


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Haha very true


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

justsambam08 said:


> Someone posted about dogs, so I have to comment, lol. There are SOME designer dogs that actually had a purpose--like trying to make a more allergy friendly dog, or making a more versatile breed (the labradoodle is an example of that, IMO they are EXCELLENT dogs, I've never met one I didn't like)


 "Doodles" and designer dogs are a pet peeve of mine. You are not guaranteed a hypoallergenic dog when you cross a regular dog with a hypoallergenic dog. Poodles are great dogs in and of themselves; there are really no reasons to outcross with another breed. Poodles are extremely versatile, I'm not sure what any other breed could offer?
Anyways, that's just my little rant of the day!


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

White Foot said:


> If people didn't backyard breed what would half of this forum and the OP have to bi!tch about? xD


Well, we could always go back to duking it out over equine slaughter. :twisted:


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

White Foot said:


> Here's a good way to look at it:
> 
> If people didn't backyard breed what would half of this forum and the OP have to complain about? xD


Training issues, "ethics" (or lack thereof) in the show ring, etc... 





Just sayin'
:wink:


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

Speed Racer said:


> Well, we could always go back to duking it out over equine slaughter. :twisted:


& JDI Good point :lol:


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

^Good point once again!


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

You cannot trace a grade stallions genetic history most of the time(with a a few, VERY few, exceptions). So you really have no idea what genetic diseases could be lurking in those bloodlines, what mutations.

With a pure bred stallion you can look alllll the way back and see exactly what you are breeding to.

I really feel the same about grade mares and stallions, their lines are unpredictable, but a stallion can produce faster and more often than any mare ever can spreading those bad genes to every corner of the industry if allowed.

*And actually you dont really need to surgically spay a mare any more. Lots of breeding farms around me are very responsible and use the "marble" method to prevent their mares from going into season as an added precaution against unwanted breedings, just in case. The procedure is relatively inexpensive and safe... Great if you show alot too and stable at the show grounds, if her reproductive system thinks it is pregnant, she cant get more pregnant, eh?


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

If only we could prevent backyard breeding in some humans! What a perfect world it would be.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

No fricken kidding....


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

If people were rated, judged, and registered like animals, very _few_ of us would be breeding worthy.

Kinda glad we don't have that though, because it just smacks of Hitler and his 'genetics' research, and desire to breed a superior Aryan race. :shock:


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

Well, we wouldn't be racist about it haha. More like horses, every "breed" will have a standard


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

The Puggle is one that gets my goat. Yeah, let's take a Pug and a Beagle and mate 'em! You usually get a dog who has trouble breathing, and bays when they get excited. How is _that_ desirable? 
Read more: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeding/backyard-breeding-bugs-me-54875/page4/#ixzz0nqVFvD4S



Hahahahahahaha so true!!!
​


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

MaggiStar said:


> The Puggle is one that gets my goat. Yeah, let's take a Pug and a Beagle and mate 'em! * You usually get a dog who has trouble breathing, and bays when they get excited. How is that desirable? *
> [/COLOR][/LEFT]


Bahahaha!


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## ShannonSevenfold (Oct 11, 2008)

Wow. Lots of replies. haha. I just meant this to let out some frustration. Didn't know so many people would post! :lol:


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## ShannonSevenfold (Oct 11, 2008)

White Foot said:


> If only we could prevent backyard breeding in some humans! What a perfect world it would be.


We were talking about this today! It's like, seriously, okay... You have to go and pay $30 for a license to catch a fish, but anyone in the freaking WORLD can have a baby.
:-|


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

ShannonSevenfold said:


> Wow. Lots of replies. haha. I just meant this to let out some frustration. Didn't know so many people would post! :lol:


LOL we've needed a thread like this forEVER so we could stop yelling at the people on here who want to breed all their little ugly mares and stallys =D


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

equiniphile said:


> LOL we've needed a thread like this forEVER so we could stop yelling at the people on here who want to breed all their little ugly mares and stallys =D



Problem is that no one thinks their mare or stallion is ugly with poor conformation.


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## LolHorse (Dec 28, 2009)

nrhareiner said:


> Problem is that no one thinks their mare or stallion is ugly with poor conformation.


 Very, very, true! :lol:


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

To me, the problem with backyard breeders is that a lot of them do nothing with their foals and have no plans for them. For example, I know some folks with at least 5 horses. They have had 3 foals over the past several years, and as far as I know, none of them have any real training. Even their older horses never get ridden or worked with. 

While I don't think you have to ride a horse to be a good owner, I can't help but think what is going to happen to these horses if they ever have to sell them? How much market is there for untrained, nearly unhandled 2-3 year olds? Not much.

Now I actually have no problem with grade horses. I own a Mustang and he is the best horse I have ever owned. And my Foxtrotter is in foal to a QH (I bought her pregnant) and I have no problem with a 1/2 Foxtrotter/ 1/2 QH. Grades can actually be really great horses (and I've owned some great registered horses too). For what I do, trail riding, papers don't make the horse! 

But, please, if you breed, have a plan for the foal. Either a) make sure the babies you are breeding are marketable - if you are a big breeder, and b) if you are a back yard breeder, have a plan for your foal, be responsible and get it TRAINED! You may think it's cute even with no manners, but nobody else will. 

I believe the single most important thing we can do for the future of any of our horses is train them! So if we ever have to give them up, they will have some value to someone! Much like a child needs an education, so does a horse! An uneducated child will find it very hard to find a job when it grows up. An uneducated horse will find it very had to find a home. 

Here is a stellar example. Izzy, my new Foxtrotter, was apparently used as a broodmare her nearly her entire adult life. She was 15 years old when I bought her last year AS A TRAIL HORSE. She rides great! This will be her 10th foal that I am aware of (I called the registry and she has had 7 registered foals plus two grades plus one grade on the way). 

Now how in the world did I end up with a broodmare when I wanted a trail horse? Because the people that had her were selling off their broodmares and I was told she was a great trail horse and she was the right price so I bought her. 

Now can you imagine what would happen to a 15 yr old broodmare with no saddle training in the current horse market? I shudder to think where she could have ended up. BUT, someone took the time to train her, and train her well, and she actually found a life outside the broodmare band with someone who really loves her. 

That is how I think it should be. The time someone took to train her very likely saved her life. I know I never would have bought her if she weren't saddle broke. 

So that is my thoughts on backyard breeding. I have no problem with one person raising a foal they want to keep and train and use in their "backyard."

I do have a problem with someone, with one mare or fifty, who doesn't have a plan for their foal(s). It either has to be marketable based on its breeding, or at the very least train that puppy so it will have a loving home with someone. Not everyone can afford or even desires top-of-the-line horses, but by golly, please train your horses and do your best to make sure they will be of value to someone, as a trail or pleasure horse if nothing else.


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## sssmith (Apr 11, 2010)

trailhorserider said:


> To me, the problem with backyard breeders is that a lot of them do nothing with their foals and have no plans for them. For example, I know some folks with at least 5 horses. They have had 3 foals over the past several years, and as far as I know, none of them have any real training. Even their older horses never get ridden or worked with.
> 
> While I don't think you have to ride a horse to be a good owner, I can't help but think what is going to happen to these horses if they ever have to sell them? How much market is there for untrained, nearly unhandled 2-3 year olds? Not much.
> 
> ...


I agree... and very well put!


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

> To me, the problem with backyard breeders is that a lot of them do nothing with their foals and have no plans for them. For example, I know some folks with at least 5 horses. They have had 3 foals over the past several years, and as far as I know, none of them have any real training. Even their older horses never get ridden or worked with.
> 
> 
> ​


Very good point. My uncle was a "backyard breeder", though the horses turned out very well, mine being one of them. Would I ever breed what he did? probably not. His horses were all trained and my horse got the proper training as well. 

I think what you said is a huge part of being a backyard breeder.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I have been around far too many uneducated, backyard breeders - and due to this, I've obtained a very sour taste in my mouth towards anyone who lands in this category.

I believe, thanks to these contributors who add more unwanted horses into this already over populated world as it is, are adding to the plight of unwanted horses.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

I didn't go thru all 7 pages, just first 2 or 3. And I guess I gonna be yelled at, but... I LOVE mutt dogs and cats and prefer them to almost ANY breed I know of. I'd say almost any mix looks cute to me while I can think of very limited number of breeds I like to look at personally. I've had 2 mutts (not even 2 breeds, but what? 5? 10? 25? mixed in, got both as little pups one from shelter, one from person I know) and I had OFFERS from different people off the street to buy them because of their cuteness when they were adult dogs not even puppies anymore. So personally I'm strongly against to have just purebred dogs and cats on market (especially for $$$ one can't even afford sometime). 

With that being said I feel different about horses. Mostly because 1) almost any person can afford to keep a cat or a dog, while horses is a pretty expensive hobby (or lifestyle) and 2) if horse is poor conformed etc. and can't ride or compete (depending on interest of the owner) not too many people like to take care of such a horse till the end of it's life (which can be 20 years to go) and it's understandable again from financial point of view.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

kitten_Val said:


> I didn't go thru all 7 pages, just first 2 or 3. And I guess I gonna be yelled at, but... I LOVE mutt dogs and cats and prefer them to almost ANY breed I know of. I'd say almost any mix looks cute to me while I can think of very limited number of breeds I like to look at personally. I've had 2 mutts (not even 2 breeds, but what? 5? 10? 25? mixed in, got both as little pups one from shelter, one from person I know) and I had OFFERS from different people off the street to buy them because of their cuteness when they were adult dogs not even puppies anymore. So personally I'm strongly against to have just purebred dogs and cats on market (especially for $$$ one can't even afford sometime).


While I agree and have mutts my self. I love them care for them train them everything I do with my pure bred dogs. However the mutts are fixed and it would NEVER cross my mind to breed any of them. No matter how much I love them and how great they are. Same with horses.


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## CheyAut (Nov 26, 2008)

ilovemyPhillip said:


> I LOVE your foals, CheyAut!! You are one of my favorite breeders, you have serious knowledge about what you breed, you back it up by following genetics. All your horses are well conformed, have nice bloodlines, and all have a purpose. I hold a great amount of respect for you, not only as a breeder, but as a horse-woman.


 
Wow, that was VERY nice of you!  It's certainly what I strive for, so I do love hearing people say so, thank you!


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

I've got one for you, a woman came into training with a horse and said "my horse walks really funny, I don't know what to do" so we watched it undersaddle and it was a paint/walking horse 0_0 I mean how do you not know what you bred? AND on top of that she said "I like the way this one turned out I might breed him again". !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I mean come on


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## MissH (Apr 10, 2010)

GREAT thread! I couldn't agree more with pretty much all of what's been posted here. Specifically the point about "having a plan for the foal". If you're having it just to say you did it, or just to have a foal (and have no plans or goals, or no training in mind) then I just don't understand.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

It's funny, because we talk about the backyard breeder and the first thing that comes to mind is most of us - typical riders who have one or two horses that probably aren't registered and mostly just pets and companions.

But what about the people who DO have a business, who DO have registered stock, and who DON'T have a clue? These people are the absolute WORST. In my opinion, so much worse then the standard BYB - the average one of us breeds our mare once, gets our kyoot little foal, and very likely, will end up keeping it!

I know a woman who is convinced her horses are champions. That they have this flawless conformation and they're just perfect for everything. Because they're registered. And one did some halter showing as a youngster, completely local. Not only do you have to ask yourself "why are they $300 a pop then?", but you can't help but shudder at the fact that she's breeding multiple mares every year - and ends up with nothing but pastures full of wild and dangerous and mostly unregistered horses that never get handled. She is fully convinced she has the best bloodlines around and that everyone should want these foals - she just never advertises so they sit and rot.

Let me tell you, 90% of what she's breeding is fuglier and more useless then 90% of the average mare owners I know picking out a PROPER stud and breeding their sweet Bessie. At least the foal has a chance on ONE side of the fence. 

At the end of the day, it's THOSE people that are fueling the slaughter industry. The people breeding 20 and 30 "registered" foals every year that aren't worth snot because even papers won't fix what's wrong with them. I would MUCH rather see someone breed their mediocre trail horse to a nicely selected stud because they want a baby then have to watch half these train wrecks try to convince the world their foals are worth something!


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## ptvintage (Feb 12, 2010)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> It's funny, because we talk about the backyard breeder and the first thing that comes to mind is most of us - typical riders who have one or two horses that probably aren't registered and mostly just pets and companions.
> 
> But what about the people who DO have a business, who DO have registered stock, and who DON'T have a clue? These people are the absolute WORST. In my opinion, so much worse then the standard BYB - the average one of us breeds our mare once, gets our kyoot little foal, and very likely, will end up keeping it!
> 
> I know a woman who is convinced her horses are champions. That they have this flawless conformation and they're just perfect for everything. Because they're registered. And one did some halter showing as a youngster, completely local. Not only do you have to ask yourself "why are they $300 a pop then?", but you can't help but shudder at the fact that she's breeding multiple mares every year - and ends up with nothing but pastures full of wild and dangerous and mostly unregistered horses that never get handled. She is fully convinced she has the best bloodlines around and that everyone should want these foals - she just never advertises so they sit and rot.



I have to agree with this. I know a woman who was breeding her ex-lesson horses because she had access to her best friend's Oldenburg Stallion. She actually tried to sell me one of her colts who had a twisted leg for $9,000. That was 5 years ago, and she still hasn't sold him, she has a field of Oldenburg crosses aged 2-5 years old who have no training and might as well be wild horses. She too believes that she is an amazing breeder/trainer, and her horses are champions.

I think that people shouldn't breed their horses "just because". People also need to be more responsible so there isn't "accidental" breedings. A family I used to board my horse with bred their registered quarter horse mare with bad confirmation for no real purpose. Then the next year, the mare was pregnant again because they put a stud colt in the field with her...how could they not know what would happen?


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

CheyAut said:


> Wow, that was VERY nice of you!  It's certainly what I strive for, so I do love hearing people say so, thank you!


No problem :wink:, you're welcome.


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## BennysLace (May 9, 2010)

Honeysuga said:


> Yes, that is one often overlooked, most quality breeders stick to one or two breeds. Often if there are 4,5,+ breeds/ species coming from one breeder it is a critter mill/byb.
> 
> That is one thing that gets me, giving mix breed animals a name to make them seem something other than a mutt. Cockapoos, puggles, pintabians, quarabs, why dont you just call it what it is, a mix breed...


%
Ok first let me say I'm a purist, I would never breed an arabian to anything but an arabian(they are my fav. breed.) however when your talking Pintabian you may want to take that off your list. A pintabian takes many many years to create. Many folks think a Pintabian is nothing more then an arab paint cross it is not. A Pintabian must be atleast 98% arab with lines to color as in the sire and ****. I don't know many BYBs but the few I do know of do not have the patience to set down and take many generations to create a pintabian, heck if I wasn't a purist I wouldn't have the patience to create one. LOL!!! Now as far as the "designer" breed dogs ugggg lets not get me started on that, it is definately one of my biggest pet peeves, I have been kicked off many a classified section of a forum for letting folks know this.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

I mean specifically mixing a paint and an arabian hoping to get color and calling it a paintabian. Still just as designer as a labradoodle, just takes more time to get one. Much like the shireloosas and arabaloosas everyone is breeding...


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Macabre, I totally have to agree. I don't care if you've got bloodlined horses coming out of the ying yang, but if you're just breeding to breed, you need a serious slap upside the head.

Point in case, a HUGE Arabian barn for the last few years, has been giving away anywhere's from 20-30 foals per year. Free, all you gotta do is pay for the paperwork. Now, I'm talking big named sires - Versace, Padron, DA Valentino - All National Champions. And they are GIVING away babies from these sires. Who's breeding fee's average $3000. 
Why? It's a halter barn. Those foals they are giving away won't ever make it to the Nationals in Halter. Probably be freaking phenomal performance horses. For the last few years they have done this. 
Now, not only are you totally de-valuing your stallions (Who's going to pay $3000 for a stud fee when they can wait to get a free foal?!) it's supremely hard for us smaller breeders to even get a foot in the door because of the quality of these foals that they are just throwing away. 
And you know what gets me? They always advertise it as - "Free foals from National Champions to give away - need to make room for upcoming foal crop!"
If you can't properly market and sell what you're already producing... Maybe you should STOP.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Honeysuga said:


> I mean specifically mixing a paint and an arabian hoping to get color and calling it a paintabian. Still just as designer as a labradoodle, just takes more time to get one. Much like the shireloosas and arabaloosas everyone is breeding...


Just some FYI... You cannot breed a purebred Paint to a purebred Arabian and get a Pintabian. Pintabians need to be at least (I believe) 96% Arabian blood to be registered as a Pintabian (so you'd need to breed Pinto/Arab, breed that Pinto/Arab to a purebred Arabian to get a Pintabian). Otherwise it's just a plain old cross bred.

I'm not even going to touch the Araloosa's. :shock:


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## BennysLace (May 9, 2010)

Honeysuga said:


> I mean specifically mixing a paint and an arabian hoping to get color and calling it a paintabian. Still just as designer as a labradoodle, just takes more time to get one. Much like the shireloosas and arabaloosas everyone is breeding...


I have known folks to do that, then explain to them what a pintabian truely is and what it takes to be reg. pintabian, it can take decades to get a pintabian breeding program up if you start from scratch. We must remember in this situation your would also be calling an Appendix Qh or a TB paint cross designer breeds when they would be reg. either qh or paint. However alot of folks don't know that and just buy into the breeding paints and arabs, which uggg is a huge pet peeve considering again I'm a purist when it comes to arabs. We all must remember tho, 98% of all light breeds came from arabians and took someones with knowledge(which leaves bybs out) to come up with each specific breed. I think registries should require classess for each owner and animal exams for each breed should be required before registration would be allowed for any planned breeding. Another thing that gets me, breeding any breed horse to a dilute hopeing for color.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

That is exactly what I was saying WSarabians.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

We've got quite the thread here, lol.

I know someone like that. Not just horses, but sheep, dogs, cats, AND chickens. All at the same time. They had at least a dozen chickens, four mares in foal to their Appy, a few cats, several dogs, a ram, two ewes, and a few lambs. None of which were spayed or neutered. After falling into a huge hole, they sold everything but a few dogs, and then decided to fork out like $300 for a registered Aussie puppy, that they aren't getting fixed because they may want to breed her. All of this after the [maybe] 2 year old Sharpay died because they couldn't feed her enough to compensate for the life her puppies sucked out of her. It makes me cringe. Hardcore cringe.

I would love to breed my mare. Because I want to have a part of her after she passes. She's a registered Paint without any major [or even any minor] conformational flaws, has had two colored babies, and is what most people would consider a breed-worthy mare. But I wouldn't breed to a Paint, I'd breed to a TB, draft, or warmblood, because I'd want something big and "hot." I would want a dressage mount, a hunter/jumper, maybe an eventer-type horse. The stud would have to be correct and successful. Yes, I would have a grade baby. But I wouldn't take any stud. Would that make me a "backyard breeder?" I don't think so. Especially since I'm not going to breed her because 1] she's 18, 2] I can't afford it, and 3] my friend at work had a "whoops" QH filly she was trying to give away. 

If I fell into a very, very large sum of money and had enough, I'd probably still breed Ricci. But in reality, by the time I had the money to comfortably breed her and support her through pregnancy and the foal, she'd be too old for me to comfortably breed anyway. And I don't want to breed Gracie when she gets older because I don't feel she has anything spectacular to offer, and certainly nothing I'd want to keep in baby-form. She's a great filly, don't get me wrong. But why make a baby I wouldn't use and probably couldn't sell because there are already thousands of QH's out there? So I've resigned myself to someday purchasing a warmblood colt, get it gelded, and then have my big, "hot" eventer-type horse.


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## BennysLace (May 9, 2010)

riccil0ve said:


> We've got quite the thread here, lol.
> 
> I know someone like that. Not just horses, but sheep, dogs, cats, AND chickens. All at the same time. They had at least a dozen chickens, four mares in foal to their Appy, a few cats, several dogs, a ram, two ewes, and a few lambs. None of which were spayed or neutered. After falling into a huge hole, they sold everything but a few dogs, and then decided to fork out like $300 for a registered Aussie puppy, that they aren't getting fixed because they may want to breed her. All of this after the [maybe] 2 year old Sharpay died because they couldn't feed her enough to compensate for the life her puppies sucked out of her. It makes me cringe. Hardcore cringe.
> 
> ...


Actually an APHA registered horse crossed to a JC registered horse still gives you a very registerable APHA horse. APHA allows both Qhs, and TBs to be bred into the registration. If you check most paint horse pedigrees(probably including your mare) you will find many TBs in the mix, so that helps your options of having a registered foal. 

I have never bred a horse, doesn't mean I never will. My paint mare who I adore, has some flaws and if she ever was able to produce a foal(she has a growth not sure if she could) I don't think I'd ever breed her. She's the sweetest mare in the world and very smart but I can buy a foal anytime. Now I also have an arabian filly, and maybe someday I will breed her if she grows up as nice as she seems she will, and I can get her to prove herself as a performance horse. If I do breed her it would be much later in her years, and it would be so I could try to produce a talented foal such as herself(if she continues on the path she is now but who knows with yearlings).


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

BennysLace said:


> Actually an APHA registered horse crossed to a JC registered horse still gives you a very registerable APHA horse. APHA allows both Qhs, and TBs to be bred into the registration. If you check most paint horse pedigrees(probably including your mare) you will find many TBs in the mix, so that helps your options of having a registered foal.


Oh, duh.  Haha.


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## QHDragon (Mar 6, 2009)

Here's my two cents, I think there is certainly still a market for well bred foals, but you better have one heck of a stallion and one heck of a mare to be competitive these days in such a crowded market. This year in the AQHA journal I noticed a lot of top stallions were giving away breedings or had huge incentives on them. These are not the people that bug me.

The people that bug me are the ones that are breeding without any thought to conformation or market value just because the horse is a pretty color, is really sweet, or they really want their kids or grandkids to see a baby. Almost all of these people don't seem to think of the what ifs, what if I get sick and can't keep my horse any more, how marketable is my walkaloosapaintmorgan with cow hocks, an ewe neck, and a back as long as California going to be? Just because you think your horse is pretty or sweet doesn't mean that the rest of the world is going to see it the same way.


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

Speed Racer said:


> Well, we could always go back to duking it out over equine slaughter. :twisted:


 
Or parrelli. :wink:


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Lonestar22 said:


> Or parrelli. :wink:


True. 

There are all _sorts_ of things that get peoples' dander up.

Parelli, equine slaughter, rollkur, barefoot vs shod, vegan vs meat eaters, monotheism vs atheism, liberals vs conservatives, etc.......


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

goldilockz said:


> I love my "hybrid" dog. He is half beagle, half jack russel (jack beagle? beaussle?) and he cost me a $50 donation from a rescue organization. He's a mutt, plain and simple, and he's lumpy and has extra toes, and I wouldn't trade him for the most expensive designer dog in the world.


 

Hahahahahahah! ****. I'm sorry, but the "he's lumpy and has a few extra toes" line just cracked me up! 


I hate dogs being BYB more than horses. Although the labradoodle is a nice dog, I sure the heck not gonna pay 700 for a mutt. I have a pure bred Black Mouth Curr, not registered, and guess what? I got her for free. The best Dog (her name) I could ask for. IDK why people are willing to shell out so much money for a dog when they can go get one thats already vaccinated, spayed or nuetured, and socialized for about 75 bucks from the spca?


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## goldilockz (Aug 1, 2008)

Speed Racer said:


> True.
> 
> There are all _sorts_ of things that get peoples' dander up.
> 
> Parelli, equine slaughter, rollkur, barefoot vs shod, vegan vs meat eaters, monotheism vs atheism, liberals vs conservatives, etc.......


You forgot Horde vs. Alliance.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

goldilockz said:


> You forgot Horde vs. Alliance.


I don't do online role playing, so I know next to nothing about the two WOW factions.


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## somekindalexus (Apr 28, 2010)

At the barn I used to board at, we were getting ready to take my paint mare, who has exceptional bloodlines (Sonny Dee Bar and numerous other well known paints) to get bred to a World Champion Buckskin halter horse. (We plan on showing our baby halter and eventually showing him WP once he's three or four.) Well the BO's daughter, who has a tennessee walker / rocky mtn. horse / pony mix, got the idea into her head that this horse should be bred too.

*hits head on wall multiple times*

I have nothing against any of those breeds of horse, WHEN THEY"RE PUREBRED and have a purpose in life.


Her reason: I just love her color and I think the Buckskin bred to Misty (her horse who is colored like a rocky mtn. and has the biggest head you'll ever see, not to mention she's only fourteen hands) would make a really cute sorrel baby.
Then I could have my own baby to raise and show.

*hits head on wall more times*

"then I could have my own baby to raise and show" - coming from someone who wanted to go to a jumping show in a western saddle and kept calling the barrel saddle a "jumping saddle". She also didn't know what a lead was. This girl also said my very well trained western pleasure, registered, with very good Zippo and Dynamic Deluxe bloodlines, quarter horse "would get beat by Misty (her little mare) at a show because your horse was too slow and her head was too low when you rode her, so Misty will beat her because she is faster and keeps her head up and proud"

And her father, who is about 50, agreed and started looking on... drum roll please... CRAIGSLIST for a stud to breed her to, because $500 (the buckskin's stud fee) was too much to breed a good horse for.

The fact that he even thought about breeding this horse was enough... not to mention that their stalls are made of pipe gates, their fences are two strands of hot wire and they don't feed their horses unless it's winter. Not a suitable environment for a baby.





sorry for the rant! just stupid people make me thankful that I was raised with a somewhat decent conscience about horses in general.


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## QHDragon (Mar 6, 2009)

goldilockz said:


> You forgot Horde vs. Alliance.



Horde kicks alliance's butt. :lol:


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

My man's uncle has a mare and stallion in a pasture together. There is a 2 year old, and now a new filly, one week old. *Headdesk*. None are taken care of. They don't even know what a farrier is. *Headdesk again*. The two year old has never been touched, the mare runs from you, the new baby hasn't been(and probably won't be) touched. The stallion is the only sane one, ironically. And they are trying to sell them for $100 a peice. When my boyfriend told me that, I nearly died. Actually PAY for psycho horses who aren't trained to the least extent? Please. I wish he would GIVE them to someone who had the time to work with them. They've ruined that two year old, about to ruin the new baby. X/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BennysLace (May 9, 2010)

Lonestar22 said:


> Hahahahahahah! ****. I'm sorry, but the "he's lumpy and has a few extra toes" line just cracked me up!
> 
> 
> I hate dogs being BYB more than horses. Although the labradoodle is a nice dog, I sure the heck not gonna pay 700 for a mutt. I have a pure bred Black Mouth Curr, not registered, and guess what? I got her for free. The best Dog (her name) I could ask for. IDK why people are willing to shell out so much money for a dog when they can go get one thats already vaccinated, spayed or nuetured, and socialized for about 75 bucks from the spca?


Sorry off subject here, but I looked at your photos I so want that cute calf lol!!!


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