# Hello from Me



## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

JakeSully said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I just registered and made my first post yesterday!
> 
> ...


 
Hi Jake Sully!

Welcome to the forum.

I am sure your post will stir a few different responses from us all.

I can't, unfortunately, open your link from my work computer. I do have a few pointers of my own, however.

Around three years ago I purchased a wonderful 3 year old stallion. He was a bit on the thin side, dusty and needed some TLC. I kept him at a facility where he was accepted as a stallion, and in a different section of the barn there were four other stallions.

Now, Dubai was a very chilled out character. BUT his life as a stallion limited from things I would consider natural and necessary for a horse. There was no turn out available for him, whether separate or with others. The other stallions were turned out in the indoor school and of an evening in the fields. He would stress, calling out in his box and box walk, which caused hoof issues and weight issues. 
I found myself having to train harder, and be harsher with him, to set down our boundries so I had a respectful creature I could control. Not a 650kg flesh machine filled with testosterone that dragged me across the yard.

I felt that I made the right decision in gelding him. Within six weeks he was turned out, and then another three with other horses, his stress levels decreased dramatically to the point where he would nap in the afternoon in his box when the weather was bad, and he was an absolute pleasure to train and own. I was very, very lucky to own such a creature.

My decision to geld was made on the basis for improving his life. As a non stud, his need to mount was less than the other breeding stallions, but they still saw him as a threat. I have no doubt if they had been turned out together, he would have been attacked. 

I had the trainer, the facilities and the knowledge to leave him as a stallion. But to what end? A miserable horse that developed vices and was unable to have as natural a life as I could offer him. 

Too often I see people buy a stallion, and end up with a very dangerous animal. I think it's irresponsible, honestly, for anyone to own a stallion without the proper preperation. It's a completely different ball game (pun intended) to owning a mare or gelding. Unless you're breeding, I would never suggest anyone own a stallion. It's not detrimental to their health, but it's detrimental to their mental psychology if you are an unprepared stallion owner who cannot give them as natural life as possible, which unless you breed, or can afford great insurance and a nice place which facilitates stallions (and not many do where I am from) then do the responsible thing.http://www.horseforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## 6th Sense (Feb 12, 2015)

Hi Jake

Sounds like you have a great love of horses just like myself. I don't 'own' a horse either but have a big interest in these magnificent beasts. I'm sure we'll be seeing some interesting posts from you here


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## JakeSully (Mar 31, 2015)

DuffyDuck said:


> Hi Jake Sully!
> 
> Welcome to the forum.


Thank you! 



DuffyDuck said:


> I am sure your post will stir a few different responses from us all.


I'm not sure how you mean this, but if you're referring not to me as a new member, but to my views and ideas in regards to respect for horses, stallions and castration, I specifically just now started an own, new topic just for that here: Respect for Horses
May I suggest that you post there if you have any more contributions or comments about my views or ideas in regards to respect, stallions and castration?



DuffyDuck said:


> Around three years ago I purchased a wonderful 3 year old stallion. [...]
> Now, Dubai was a very chilled out character. BUT his life as a stallion limited from things I would consider natural and necessary for a horse. There was no turn out available for him, whether separate or with others.


That's your mistake right there: You, according to your own words, consider natural and necessary for a horse (your horse being a stallion in this case), I quote from your own words:
"[...] *no turn out available for him, whether separate or with others.*"
Doesn't that say it all already?
So you seriously consider natural and necessary for a horse, in the case of it being a stallion, if it has not turn out available for him, whether separate or with others? Clearly that shows your mistake from the very start, does it not? Couldn't it be that you just copied as "natural and necessary" for a horse, a stallion in this case, what the facility you wanted to use deemed as "natural and necessary" for stallions?
Don't you see the problem right there: Those who new horse owners look up to or rely uppon, like yourself, not knowing about stallions and educating and informing about stallions and their proper keeping and handling?



DuffyDuck said:


> The other stallions were turned out in the indoor school and of an evening in the fields. He would stress, calling out in his box and box walk, which caused hoof issues and weight issues.
> I found myself having to train harder, and be harsher with him, to set down our boundries so I had a respectful creature I could control. Not a 650kg flesh machine filled with testosterone that dragged me across the yard.


I don't doubt any of that. I've heard it countless times. Obviously, that place was not good for stallions at all. Otherwise the thought to castrate him would hardly ever have crossed your mind. At least not for the reasons you mentioned and not if you wouldn't lack any and all talent in handling or owning a stallion (which I can't say from here, obviously).



DuffyDuck said:


> I felt that I made the right decision in gelding him. Within six weeks he was turned out, and then another three with other horses, his stress levels decreased dramatically to the point where he would nap in the afternoon in his box when the weather was bad, and he was an absolute pleasure to train and own. I was very, very lucky to own such a creature.


That being as it may, I feel you made the wrong descision to:
A.) Keep him in a facility which was obviously not good for stallions.
B.) Buy him, if you knew or could have known, that you do not have a facility to keep him in that is good for stallions.



DuffyDuck said:


> My decision to geld was made on the basis for improving his life. As a non stud, his need to mount was less than the other breeding stallions, but they still saw him as a threat. I have no doubt if they had been turned out together, he would have been attacked.


Being that as it may, had you not bought a stallion, knowing full well or having absolutely been able to know, that you do *not* have a facility that is good for stallions, where stallions can be kept happily, healthily and naturally, so all is well, was a very serious and primary mistake.
Your gelding him later, was only to fix your first, serious and primary mistake. I do not doubt, that stallions, when kept wrongly, not appropriate to the species and gender, do calm down when their testosterone is removed. That's why it's done after all. All I'm saying, instead of removing the testosterone, they could also be kept and handled appropriate to the species and gender. I'm not saying that will turn them into mares (or geldings). But almost. And besides, that's not really the point of a male horse or of owning one, is it? 


DuffyDuck said:


> I had the trainer, the facilities and the knowledge to leave him as a stallion.


I disagree. It's obvious that you didn't. And I think your stallion and ultimately his testicles would agree with me, don't you think?




DuffyDuck said:


> But to what end? A miserable horse that developed vices and was unable to have as natural a life as I could offer him.


For me, it's not "about the life you can offer a horse", as that is direly limited in very, very many cases (which I don't want to compare you with) and with very many people (which I don't want to compare you with).
To me, it's about "the life a horse deserves". Any horse. And that includes respect. Right from the start. Right from the decision to buy a horse and to know in advance, if one can give an animal, including a horse, what it needs. The way it is, either as an adult male or adult female, with all the parts and everything that goes with it.



DuffyDuck said:


> Too often I see people buy a stallion, and end up with a very dangerous animal. I think it's irresponsible, honestly, for anyone to own a stallion without the proper preperation.


Oh yes. I couldn't agree more with you on this.
You just seem to think that it's responsible, to realize this *after* buying a horse. I think it's the other way around: I think people should realize this *before* buying a horse.



DuffyDuck said:


> It's a completely different ball game (pun intended) to owning a mare or gelding.


I know what you mean. But This comes from a very, very substantial part from the fact that people who own and handle mares and geldings (=everyone) simply don't know squat about keeping and handling stallions appropriate to the species and gender. It comes only to a small part from stallions which are kept and handled appropriate to the species and gender. Stallions which are, behave much like mares and geldings. They can be kept in group with other horses (stallions), are happy and relaxed, play with each other, can be used for riding and sports, even for children and beginners. 



DuffyDuck said:


> [...] I would never suggest anyone own a stallion. It's not detrimental to their health, but it's detrimental to their mental psychology if you are an unprepared stallion owner who cannot give them as natural life as possible, which unless you breed, or can afford great insurance and a nice place which facilitates stallions (and not many do where I am from) then do the responsible thing.


Yes, but the responsible thing then is not buy a male horse and cut off its sexual organs, but not buy a male horse, isn't it? Because castration too, is "detrimental", among many things, also to "their mental psychology".

Kind regards.
Again, if you have more comments and replies - and I'm sure you do, perhaps consider formulating them in a new form in my thread on these subjects instead here (Respect for Horses).


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## JakeSully (Mar 31, 2015)

6th Sense said:


> Hi Jake
> 
> Sounds like you have a great love of horses just like myself. I don't 'own' a horse either but have a big interest in these magnificent beasts. I'm sure we'll be seeing some interesting posts from you here



Hi 6th Sense!

Thanks very much for the nice and warm welcome!
 - I couldn't send you a PM, because I still didn't have 5 posts yet. ;-)

Oh, wow, I just discovered you have a homepage too! And what an interesting one! 
OhboyOhboyOhboy... I'm gonna have to read this! Looks really, really nice and interesting!


I'm just at the title page now. But if this is as interesting as it looks, I think we might have many things to talk about...! 

Kind regards and thanks again for now!


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## 6th Sense (Feb 12, 2015)

Ha ha yes my website has an 'unusual' theme for sure! Some people think it's crazy but others get it, especially those who I have done work for. Hit me up on PM when you have privileges


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Jake, a few questions for you.

How many stallions have you actually ever handled yourself? 

How many barns/stables have you come across that have the facilities to keep several stallions? 

Have you ever seen two stallions fighting?


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## piglet (Oct 2, 2012)

Hi JS.

Please don't hate me for having a gelding.

I wasn't personally responsible for the removal of his gonads.
He does, however, still have his organ.


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## chinoerika (Jun 10, 2013)

*Stallions*

Stallions, where to start?

. First of all I am not agents having a Stallion. But having owned two of them they are a handful. As an Equine Dentist now retired, I have worked on Meany of them. Some gentle and some outright killers. I now live in Central America and here ,stallions are everywhere. I have seen the good the bad and the ugly. First of all the Good, they are magnificent to look at, from the overall size and shape, and how proud they look. The bad is they can be very dangerous to themselves and others. I can't tell you the number of times I have had to help people due to a stallion and his bad attitude. But at the same time I must say for all the stallions here most are very well mannered. But there good manners come at a cost, they are trained somewhat harsh. I don't mean to say they are abused but keeping them inline is not easy. Now the Ugly. The Carnegie left in there wake is unbelievable, from riders being attacked on mares, even other people riding stallions. In one event a man was killed when one stallion attacked another stallion and the man trying to separate them was killed in the process. Also keep in mind the liability in owning a stallion. Also if there is a mare in season they can and will get out. 
Plus if the stallion gets to someone's mare guess who will pay, yes the owner of the stallion. Sorry this turned out to be so long.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Welcome to the forum, Jake.

EDIT--I say this as respectfully as possible, but you seem to be coming into this forum with your guns drawn. xD No one is forcing you to geld your horses (if you owned any), but it seems a bit rude to harp on those of us who have geldings. It's not as though we can tape their man bits back on, so I'm wondering what you're trying to accomplish :/


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