# Potential buy--dressage horse?



## teamfire (May 27, 2011)

Okay, sales seem to have dried up a bit in my area, but have got into contact with this one. (Even then, three hours away and over the border, haha)

What are your thoughts as a potential mid-level (3rd-4th level) dressage horse? This horse is currently schooling level 1. 

I'm a little concerned about her hip... if it looks too weak? Or maybe her back is long, or loins are weak? Something seems strange to me.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

It's not a great photo for evaluating confo, her hind end is angled away from the camera, which is making her quarter appear shorter/weaker than in really is. 

I see exactly the same thing you do, btw, but I really wonder how much of it was produced by the camera angle. The underlying structure of her hind end is good, it's just that it looks out of proportion to the front end. 

The front end is lovely, with a terrific shoulder angle and a wonderful neck set for a dressage horse. Good cannon to forearm ratio, nice flat clean knees, good pastern angles. 

At the very least contact the seller and get a decent set of photos or a vid of her moving to help you decide whether it's worth the trip to go see her.


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## teamfire (May 27, 2011)

I do have a vid:






Does that help?


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

teamfire said:


> Okay, sales seem to have dried up a bit in my area, but have got into contact with this one. (Even then, three hours away and over the border, haha)
> 
> What are your thoughts as a potential mid-level (3rd-4th level) dressage horse? This horse is currently schooling level 1.
> 
> I'm a little concerned about her hip... if it looks too weak? Or maybe her back is long, or loins are weak? Something seems strange to me.



It will probably do level 3 or maybe 4 but I suspect the scores may be disappointing.


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## teamfire (May 27, 2011)

To be honest, I don't care about winning. I just want to be able to ride at that level at the best of my and my horse's ability. But nor do I want to force a horse that just isn't simply built for it.


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## caseymyhorserocks (Apr 5, 2010)

Her hind end looks a little weak to me, and from the video, she doesn't use it to collect herself, she hasn't yet learned "true" collection, IMO. And her front end, when trotting, seems to be a little short strided, and to 'up and down' if you get what I mean..


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## happy123 (Jan 4, 2012)

She.looks like she needs some hard core backing done.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

happy123 said:


> She.looks like she needs some hard core backing done.


I'm not following..


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

No fluidity to her movement at all. Might be the way she goes, might be the way she's being ridden, but even if the latter, you'd need to do a lot of work reschooling and who knows what you'll get. Doesn't look as if she has much natural suspension and engagement.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

> she doesn't use it to collect herself, she hasn't yet learned "true" collection


 ??? nor should she have, at the level she's currently working. 

If you're using "collection" in it's dressage sense, it's entirely appropriate for this horse to not be working in collection, as it's at Training level. 

Teamfire, based on the video, I would say your initial impresson from the photo is accurate - she does seem to lack something behind. She also seems to lack the forwardness and fluidity I would like to see at her level of training. 

She might very well make a nice Training or First Level horse, but I agree with Spyder, I think she'll struggle to do much more than that. 

So if your goal is to move farther up the levels, I might keep looking.


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## MangoRoX87 (Oct 19, 2009)

Happy123 says that (I believe so at least) because backing builds muscle in the hips and top line
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

This horse is straight legged behind and her hocks are set a bit high. That conformation limits her ability to collect and curl and shift her weight to the rear. It limits her ability to reach under herself. 

She has a terrific front but falls apart behind. Her motor is weak.. she has a V 8 front but the engine is.. well a Four cylinder.


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## teamfire (May 27, 2011)

Thanks guys. Someone also pointed out something wonky is going on with her front hooves, especially the right, so moving on.

Sigh.

And just double-checking, for a green owner it is a stupid idea to get an unbroken horse and get it professionally started, right?


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

MangoRoX87 said:


> Happy123 says that (I believe so at least) because backing builds muscle in the hips and top line
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh I thought it was something else, not backing up a horse. That's a strange comment to make though, hehe


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

The video shows her "pulling from her shoulder" . But she can be trained to work more from behind. She is kind of slow, but looks very calm and confident.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

> And just double-checking, for a green owner it is a stupid idea to get an unbroken horse and get it professionally started, right?


I see nothing wrong with this as long as you work under the trainer yourself. It depends on the horse, The right one will come to you.

All my horses came to me young. I got them as weanlings or yearlings and then at 2 years they were sent to the trainer to be started. Brought home after 30 days of 5-6 training sessions a week, we were very pleased. A year later we sent them back for a refresher 30 days and I've never had any issues with my horses.

My first horse was a yearling. Second horse was a weanling. I worked under a wonderful trainer and a great horse mentor, my aunt.

I would actually prefer to get an unbroken horse, spend lots of time on the ground with him, get the manners a horse should have down pat, send em to a trainer, work with the trainer and take lessons. That way, I'm not buying someone else's problems and mistakes.

It's completely up to you. Like I said, you'll meet the right horse, and you'll know. Whether it's young or older.


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## teamfire (May 27, 2011)

> Like I said, you'll meet the right horse, and you'll know. Whether it's young or older.


I did meet that horse. =( Except, apparently, I wasn't good enough since the owners decided to stop communicating.


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## ladybugsgirl (Aug 12, 2009)

Something does look odd about her movement at the trot
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

It may or may not be a stupid idea, but it's an expensive idea. 

You will have more money in the horse that the horse will be worth or can be sold for in fairly short order. 

If you have a trainer that you have a good relationship with and trust, and can but some parameters in place, it could work out as ClaPorte said, but it will still be an expensive way to get a made horse. 

I'm just curious - if you're a green owner, is it realistic for you to be looking for a horse than can advance up the levels and make it to 3rd or 4th Level or should you be looking for a solid lower level horse to start you off? Or are you a green owner, but not a green rider?


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## teamfire (May 27, 2011)

Just seems that right now I'm looking at horses at around 5-6k that are not what I want, or are good but with vices or health problems. And then I've come across with good horses with proven dressage bloodlines at 1 or 2k, but unstarted. If I'm willing to pay the 5-6k, why not put the rest of the money to start a good horse? I'm paying for training, either way.

Green owner, not green rider. I'm intermediate level, I guess. I already play with 1st and 2nd level stuff, but I'm fairly confident I can advance to 3rd with consistency.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Talk to your trainer and find out if 4K in training is going to get you from unstarted to where you want to be, and then bear in mind that you'll be assuming a lot of risk based on your prospect's potential. I don't know what training board runs in your area or what your trainer charges, but 4K in training won't get you from unstarted to where the prospect you posted about is. (Not a good example, because I don't think this prospect was started or is being ridden correctly or well.)

So I am skeptical of this plan, but if you work out a reasonable plan with your trainer, if you find a very good prospect, and if all the stars line up correctly it might work, so I don't want to be a total buzz kill. It will be difficult to do, but not necessariy impossible.

Good luck, and do keep posting about yoru progress!


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## teamfire (May 27, 2011)

Oh, I wouldn't be expecting the same level of training as some of the ones I've posted! With my trainer's help, I can handle a greenie (some of the horses I've looked at only had some months of training), I just can't start a horse, that's all...

Just would need training to the point an intermediate rider can take things along. So just broke in w/t/c with decent steering, that's all.

I'd rather not go this route (I'd rather see what's already there, instead of taking that risk that my prospect doesn't turn out as I thought it would), it just seems that what I'm looking for is not available in my budget. =( Trying to make sure I'm doing everything I can...


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## Black Beauty 94 (Dec 26, 2011)

If you feel something is wrong, and that is your gut feeling I would not buy her.

I do agree with the above posts, the hind end is weak. That just takes time, round pen work and working up hills.

I do see with time the horse has the potential.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

teamfire said:


> Oh, I wouldn't be expecting the same level of training as some of the ones I've posted! With my trainer's help, I can handle a greenie (some of the horses I've looked at only had some months of training), I just can't start a horse, that's all...
> 
> Just would need training to the point an intermediate rider can take things along. So just broke in w/t/c with decent steering, that's all.
> 
> I'd rather not go this route (I'd rather see what's already there, instead of taking that risk that my prospect doesn't turn out as I thought it would), it just seems that what I'm looking for is not available in my budget. =( Trying to make sure I'm doing everything I can...


SOme of this depends upon your own personal ability and goals. Talk with your trainer honestly. Look around your area at how much training board is. If you are expecting to do this yourself, (and I am coming from another discipline, but am in the process of training him) it is really difficult, and takes a long time. It can be very rewarding, yes, and you learn in the process. But, there are risks involved too, as has been said you don't know if a horse will do what you want to achieve at all. It is a risk. I can say from experience that $4k will not get you far at all for training board. Lessons, maybe. Training board where I am (and mine is extremely fair) is $800/mo. You very quickly spend a lot of cash. THe other thing to consider is that *heaven forbid* it doesn't work out and you have put $$ into training, but the horse still has a LONG way to go . If you have to sell, you will lose $$ big time. If you buy the one with the more solid training already, you have a chance at recuping your $$. JMHO. Something I have also given a lot of thought to, since I bought a $2k horse and have put nearly $10K in training on him-I could not sell him for half that, if I had to tomorrow. FOod for thought. Yes, I have learned a ton too, which will not go away, and neither will the training I have on him. He will always have a good solid reining base.:wink:


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## calicokatt (Mar 5, 2012)

I think you might be better off looking in a different area if your area hasn't very much that you like. You may be able to find an area where horses are going for less, travel to see several prospects, and have the one you like shipped home for less than what you would pay in your own area. Worth a thought anyway.


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## teamfire (May 27, 2011)

This thread is a little old. I've found my dream horse already!

Has potential for mid-level, sweet as can be on the ground. He is extremely well-started, but still is a baby at 6 years old. =)

I couldn't be happier. Even my little vain hopes (like his colour) is perfect!!

I had looked in a 6 hour radius from my home, which included over the border. Nothing for 11 months. In the end, I ended up buying sight unseen and he is just what I needed!


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## Chopsticks (Mar 11, 2012)

well let's see some photos! are you starting a new thread?


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## teamfire (May 27, 2011)

I did do a little welcome thread for him, but I've still not uploaded pictures! XP Should do that ASAP! Maybe I'll start a picture thread for him. Hmmmmm.

Here is the link, anyways, to the previous thread!
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-talk/my-horse-has-come-home-118063/


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