# Milk goat breeds: opinions



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

OK... So we almost decided on getting a goat. Here are the options and I'd love to hear opinions from those with experience. 

And BTW, is it OK to get just 1 goat or I have to get 2? And what is the price range for the baby to 6 month old?

Goats - EAST RIVENDELL FARM in Damascus MD : Nubian goats

Live For Goats (no website): Pygmy, Alpine, Nubian & Lamanchas

Breezy Timber Nubian Dairy Goats - Nubians since 1978 : Nubian goats


----------



## Lockwood (Nov 8, 2011)

kitten_Val said:


> OK... So we almost decided on getting a goat. Here are the options and I'd love to hear opinions from those with experience.
> 
> And BTW, is it OK to get just 1 goat or I have to get 2? And what is the price range for the baby to 6 month old?
> 
> ...


I'll take a look at the links in a moment, but unless a single goat will have adequate companions, she will be lonely. Goats are strong herd animals and while they can be integrated into other groups of animals, it will take some thought. 
A happy goat is a goat with other similar animals to live with. Sheep are the next closest in terms of care, but a doe producing milk have needs that are higher than in the non-milking season, and are often far different than other livestock. 

Most goats who are companions for horses are not producing dairy does. 

Most decent quality milking stock start at $300.00 and up. 
A good comparison goes like this: A family of four (two adults and two teenagers) can go through a gallon of milk a day. 
Said gallon costs say... $3.00.
One month of milk = $90.00. 
A quality producing doe can give between 3/4 to 1 1/4 gallons a day (there is a range that matches the needs of a kid as it grows, called the lactation curve) so on average a good doe should be able to pay you back her purchase price and care costs on her very first lactation cycle if you just drink the milk.
Most goats average being in milk 6 to 9 months out of the year. A terrific doe (like several I have) will milk right through for 18 months straight, or until your hands need a break so dry them up for that reason.

If you cook, make soap, cheese, etc... the value just goes up from there.

Whatever goat you choose, as a lot of questions!!!! (Um, a lot of questions as there no question is too silly to ask.)
If you are looking at a youngster ask about the production of the parents. Ask to see them, or pictures of their conformation and udder lines. You don't want a goat whose udder breaks down after just two seasons. It doesn't really "break" down, but if the supporting ligaments and structures are bad (come from bad lines) the udder will be subjected to damage as the supports fail and the udder stretches out with heavy loads of milk.

If you are looking at an adult, ask to see her handled, or put on the stand to see how she behaves. Ask the owner to milk her to see how she stands.
Above all, ask health questions. There are many diseases like CAE, CL, and Johnnes out there that are not always apparent, but will do damage down the road.
I'd be happy to send you some good goat links and info if I haven't already. Sorry, I forget who I've sent what to


----------



## Lockwood (Nov 8, 2011)

Although I'm not familiar with the farms listed (I have Obers and am in PA) the farms with links seem to be decent farms based on website observations. 
If it were me, I would call any farm of interest have a list of questions to ask. See how they respond to your questions (or not, which is just as telling) and see what type of support they are willing to give you after the purchase.
Are they willing to teach you about how to trim hooves? How to milk if you need someone to show you? Are they upfront with any previous health issues? 
What is their overall level of knowledge.
In my area most goat people are not very forthcoming with any info at all. If you don't ask specific questions, you will not get any answers and they sure won't offer up info to you. 
The attitude is mostly a "buyer beware" which is sad to me. The more a seller is willing to share with a buyer, the better the buyer can care for the purchased animal.... especially if the buyer is new to goats.
Treat it like a horse purchase and do your homework.


----------



## Lockwood (Nov 8, 2011)

Ok, tied to add this, but the edit thingy said I was taking too long...

Breeds... of the breeds you listed, I've owned several of each before/or currently and know many of other goats of the breeds.
I also did tons of research on the breeds and personalitites to find the best fit for my farm.

Nubians are generally very loud but very personable. Lots of pretty patterns and colors to choose from. Their ears are both cute but somewhat difficult to deal with as they are always in the water buckets when they drink. They _need_ their people are overall are more dependent, although some are "normal". They originate from Africa are were used as a dual purpose (meat and milk) goat. They usually have more trouble with deep cold (especially their ears) but can tolerate heat better. Their butterfat is one of the highest, which is good for certain food applications and for putting weight on the derri aire.

LaManchas are an American goat. Personalities range from serious to seriously goofy (I have one of each.) Overall nice goats with an easy to milk udder and give good amounts of milk. I wanna say about middle of the road for butterfat and good all around milk for any application. 
Alpines. Swiss in origin and able to tolerate the cold better, and not so much the heat. Average butterfat and good for making distinctive cheeses, but I have found Alpine milk tends to be a bit "stronger" in flavor and overall many people will tell you that.
In a group of several breeds of goats, the Alpines are usually thr bullies of the group (had one) and others have agreed with that too. They are usually more independent like their own kind/breed the best, but having said that, there lots of perfectly overall friendly ones.


----------



## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

I have Nigerian dwarfs and zero intention of milking them (would be a bit hard seeing as I have a wether and a sterile female).

Goats are VERY social, a single goat would not do well. You can keep goats with your horses but you can't bring the horse into the barn at night and leave the goat outside or similar. 

If you don't want the milk from two goats, a wether is a good way to provide a companion, they're pretty cheap as breeders need to find them homes since all they do is stand around and eat. 

I prefer bottle-fed goats. They are VERY attached to people and friendly. It's more work in the beginning since you have to mix up bottles but it's not hard, you don't have to be up all hours of the night or anything and it's easy/inexpensive to procure baby dairy goats. 

Goat people around here love to tell you all about their goats and how to care for them. I bought mine from the biggest breeder around here (my silly goaties are registered) and they sent me home with basically an e-book on how to care for them, bottle nipples, milk replacer and instructions to call with ANY questions.


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Wow, Lockwood, thank you so much! That's lots of info for sure! I wouldn't even think to ask it all! If you could post links here (or PM me) that would be awesome too. 

Thank you, Delfina! Yes, I think 1 milk goat is quite enough, so I'll look for the wether (sorry for the dumb question, but are those like bad quality so don't go for meat or in stud?).

From how it sounds I'm leaning towards nubian one.


----------



## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

Wethers are castrated males... so yes, non-stud quality and I guess they're the wrong breed for meat, since they would be a dairy, not a meat goat?

I guess you could say they are the "geldings" of the goat world since from my understanding 4h kiddos can show wethers and I would assume they wouldn't show a train-wreck conformation goat. :lol:

I guess you could eat them.... I have no idea, I've never eaten, nor do I really have a desire to eat goat meat. 

Maybe they're like piggies, the fabulous ones are used for 4H and horrifically expensive and the "ugly" ones are cheap meat pigs? I have no clue... the fabulous "prize" piglets looked no different than the "reject" piglets I buy CHEAP and raise for meat (the "ugly" pigs taste fantastic BTW!).


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

****! As someone uneducated I can't judge about the quality by the look. All looks same to me. I tried goat meat BTW, and I liked it (but I wouldn't keep one at home for "meat purpose", because if we get those 2 goats they'll be more like pets here).


----------



## Lockwood (Nov 8, 2011)

Because a stud (as in any given livestock species) has a greater impact on the national herd than females do, only the great ones should be kept intact and used for breeding. 
Well, that leaves a whole lotta boys outa luck! Wethers (geldings) do serve a good purpose though, they provide companionship, pack goats, driving goats, pets, vast herds are for hire to take down brush, and meat. A goat that is going to be raised for meat should be castrated because it makes for better meat, unless there is a religious purpose for it to remain intact before consuming.

I have never eaten goat, but with most meat animals castrating provides better growth rates, tastier meat, and easier management.

The Nubian is indeed a dual purpose goat and many dairy goat farms eat the wethers of whatever dairy breed they specialize in. There are even 4H classes for “market” dairy wether goats as well as feeder/market dairy steers (castrated male cattle.)

Like Delfina said, bottle raised babies generally turn out friendlier, but there are farms like me who handle all the kids constantly … be it bottle kids or the ones who stay with the moms. There is no difference in temperament here, but on larger farms the bottle kids are more outgoing.

Nigerian Dwarves and Pygmy goats (very similar) are both cute and very personable, but with tiny udders and even smaller teats, you won’t get very much milk and it is challenging to milk with just two fingers. (Ask me how I know this! :shock

Nigerians have the highest butterfat of all so some folks do milk them (usually with milk machines) because the richness is wonderful for creamy soaps and knock your socks off ice creams.

I’ll PM you the links I have so I don’t congest things here.
If anyone else would like them, just PM me and put Goat Info in the title.


----------



## Tapperjockey (Jan 2, 2012)

I used to have goats (FFA project)  My favorites are the Alpines and Saanens, but I had good luck with the Nubians too. I will never again own a pygmy goat. I am truly convinced they are the goat equivalent of the Shetland pony, and therefore are planted on earth as minions of Satan to wreck havoc on the world. 

You do need 2 (or more).. also.. keep in mind, you could get two does, and breed them at slightly different times of year (some breeders are able to do this), so that you always have some milk, but not too much at one time. 

Also, don't feed them horse feed. Most horse feed isn't made for goats (obviously) and is too high in copper and low in protein. (If you get a livestock feed, make sure it's not one labelled as "safe for sheep" because those are too low in copper for goats, because copper is toxic to sheep).


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Tapper, don't worry about feeding whatever. :wink: When I get an animal I do thorough research on what to feed and how to care first. 

Thanks, folks! 

One more question though... I did some reading... Nuberians sound to be HORRIBLY noisy. Is it indeed a case? I looked into Saanens as well, but couldn't find any farm reasonably close. (Alphines are out of question if their milk has more specific taste).


----------



## Lockwood (Nov 8, 2011)

kitten_Val said:


> Tapper, don't worry about feeding whatever. :wink: When I get an animal I do thorough research on what to feed and how to care first.
> 
> Thanks, folks!
> 
> One more question though... I did some reading... Nuberians sound to be HORRIBLY noisy. Is it indeed a case? I looked into Saanens as well, but couldn't find any farm reasonably close. (Alphines are out of question if their milk has more specific taste).


Mouth of the south!!

They are nice, don't get me wrong. Many people love them and their um, er... demanding decibles of opinions for all the farm and neighbor to hear. 
I just happen to prefer a more quiet and dignified group of ladies.

Saanens and Oberhaslis have the best overall (quiet, even and dependable) temperments, but I'd have to say a good LaMancha ranks up there well also.

If you would like, you could PM me your general location and I can send you links for specific goat clubs and groups for your state/area. For example, besides the Ohio State Dairy Goat Assoc., Ohio has about 10 other big area clubs and groups. (plus oodles of smaller ones) 
Goat clubs are usually great people who are passionate about goats and could help you on a more local level to find what you are looking for. 

If you find what you are looking for but it ends up being a bit of a drive, you will later be happy that you took the drive to get the goats you really wanted. Take your time, the goat world is just getting into the full swing of birthing season right now and there will be plenty of kids and newly fresh milkers coming up for sale.
When I first started out I took some goats that although I liked, weren't really what I should have gotten. Now I wouldn't think a thing of driving for several hours to a quality breeder's farm for a good goat.


----------



## Tapperjockey (Jan 2, 2012)

Lockwood said:


> Mouth of the south!!
> 
> They are nice, don't get me wrong. Many people love them and their um, er... demanding decibles of opinions for all the farm and neighbor to hear.
> I just happen to prefer a more quiet and dignified group of ladies.
> ...


I never could find oberhaslis for sale *sigh*. Only one or two farms had them around us.. and they never seemed to have any for sale (or they were uber out of my price range). I thought they were BEAUTIFUL!!!!! Fairly rare though I think (bc I haven't seen too many lol).


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Lockwood said:


> They are nice, don't get me wrong. Many people love them and their um, er... demanding decibles of opinions for all the farm and neighbor to hear.


****! Loved that! I don't really care for the noise, but I'm afraid my neighbor's may disagree.

I'll PM you - definitely would love to get more links. 

BTW, after some research I found couple farms breeding and selling Saanens (I couldn't find any Oberhaslis in my area at all though)

Cherry Glen Farm - Sales List (they also have a breed called Toggenburgs)

Caprikorn Farms Saanen Dairy Goats: For Sale 

BTW, I don't mind a drive (in fact all farms are probably within an hour from me). Just say 3 hours is little bit too much.


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Actually I'm wrong!

There is a farm breeding Oberhasli and not horribly far: about blue ridge What do you think, folks?


----------



## Lockwood (Nov 8, 2011)

kitten_Val said:


> Actually I'm wrong!
> 
> There is a farm breeding Oberhasli and not horribly far: about blue ridge What do you think, folks?


Cherry Glen has a good reputation and they are competative in the show ring.
Blue Ridge I don't know as well, but they are also competative in the show ring. I've never heard anything bad about them.

Caprikorn I haven't heard of but then again I don't have Saanens. I would think based upon quick view of their website that the goat prices have a lot to do with their own perceived reputation. 
That is not a good or bad thing because many farms have earned that kind of respect. However, as a beginner I don't think you need to pay money towards a large farm's reputation, just some GOOD goats, which can be found at smaller conscientious farms. 

I mean unless you plan to show or have a specific kind of dairy operation in mind, I wouldn't think you need those kinds of pedigrees. 
But that is just my humble opinion FWIW.
My Obers will never out milk a Saanen, but I don't need googobs of extra milk to figure out what to do with. My girls keep my bucket brimming over enough as it is.

Gonna PM you with some more info...


----------



## Lockwood (Nov 8, 2011)

Tapperjockey said:


> I never could find oberhaslis for sale *sigh*. Only one or two farms had them around us.. and they never seemed to have any for sale (or they were uber out of my price range). I thought they were BEAUTIFUL!!!!! Fairly rare though I think (bc I haven't seen too many lol).


Yes, hard to find especially here in the northeast! Seems like all the farms with then for sale were out west but I wasn't about to pay a huge amount for one, then double that to have it shipped here.

Took me about two years of hunting to finally establish my tiny herd and I have had to travel to get them. But, now I have a nice group of girls and a terrific stud (who lives with a friend most of the year because his odoriferous but sweet self is just too much for me. (Makes fantastic babies though.)

While my head will turn at a brightly colored Nubian from time to time, I love my Obers. Beautiful, smart, elegant, refined, and not a peep out of them unless I am very late with dinner or something is wrong at the barn.


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Thank you, Lockwood! Yes, you are right - I don't care for show results and all that. However I find Obers to be much cuter then Saanans (just from my nonprofessional point of view  ). Will check the PM!


----------



## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

I had Nubians and they got along great with the horses and preferred to be with the horses. I do have one horse that could not be loose with the goats. He would herd them non stop. If you going to milk them, be sure to get goats already trained . They dont have top teeth, but they can still bite ! and they kick, and they can leave some hefty bruises!!


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

stevenson said:


> I had Nubians and they got along great with the horses and preferred to be with the horses. I do have one horse that could not be loose with the goats. He would herd them non stop. If you going to milk them, be sure to get goats already trained . They dont have top teeth, but they can still bite ! and they kick, and they can leave some hefty bruises!!


I'm not gonna milk most probably (or at least will take time to learn). Mom will (she had goats in past). 

Unfortunately horse field will be a big no-no for goats (or any other animals for that matter). One of my horses is EXTREMELY nasty and territorial towards smaller animals.


----------



## Crossover (Sep 18, 2010)

I love my mini nubians. I may someday milk them. when I find the time (I know there is some around her somewhere). 
Right now I'm just starting my herd but looking for quality goats with big names. Luckily I found someone with lots of info and a willingness to share. That I think is the most important, find someone willing to tell you everything you need to know and doesn't mind an email every five minutes because a new question came into your head.  My favorite thing about these guys is the ease of care. My two boys are staying in the back yard currently. They get a handful of hay and have goat vitamins available at all times. They also get the occasional goat treat. They are fat and sassy. My girl gets a goat grain since she's pregnant, but cost wise... these guys are a whole lot cheaper than the horses 

Here are my darlings. The two together are my bucks, brothers and the full black is a pregnant doe. I'll be purchasing at least one more unrelated bucklings. and two unrelated doelings.


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

They are extremely cute, Crossover!


----------



## Crossover (Sep 18, 2010)

kitten_Val said:


> They are extremely cute, Crossover!


Thanks!! I love them so much and they are VERY entertaining. 

The white with black boy is Dutch and the black with white is Dexter. The doe is Kaarina. 

Our farm name with the AGS is Tricksters.... I'm going to have so much fun picking out registered names for these babies.


----------



## Lockwood (Nov 8, 2011)

Crossover said:


> Thanks!! I love them so much and they are VERY entertaining.
> 
> The white with black boy is Dutch and the black with white is Dexter. The doe is Kaarina.
> 
> Our farm name with the AGS is Tricksters.... I'm going to have so much fun picking out registered names for these babies.


Very cute Nigerians!

I love coming up with the names each kidding season. Beyond the breeder ID portion of a name, the sky is the limit!
I have one line of does that are named after trees and flowers (Lock's Wispy Willow Blossoms) and another line of does that are named after fruit
(Lock's Kizzy Winesap)


----------



## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

kitten the awesome thing is, that most of the bigger goats can be used as pack animals for hiking, or even to pull wagons. thats why i got my kiko bucks, i got them wethered so i could keep them with my pygmy nanny. i LOVE my pygmy nanny, she loves to walk on a leash, and go to the park. she also loves to ride in the car in my lap and hang her head out the window like a dog. she is funniest thing EVER. and loves me to death. my biggest kiko buck has learned tricks, he we'll stand on his hind legs (taller then me and i am 5'1!) and he is only 10 months old! he is one of the biggest goats i've ever seen. but i love him to death. plus kiko's are one of the bigger breeds and super hardy!

i have heard the obeheralis breed are the best for packing and pulling! plus they are head turning!


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Folks, but how do you transport them (to the park and all)? The horse trailer seems to be too huge to haul just one goat.


----------



## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

most people buy a goat trailer which is a really small trailer like a horse trailer. others put crates large enough to hold them. in the backs of their trucks. for my pygmy i just hold her on my lap as she is about the size of a beagle. i know when i got my big kiko bucks wethered, we had no way of transporting them so put a thing made for dogs over the seats so they wouldn't get them dirty and we hauled them in the back seats, they just laid down and road fine. but i wouldn't suggest that. we were just desperately needing them wethered and had no other way to get them there.


----------



## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

I have no desire to haul my goats anywhere so for the trip home, I put the year old goat in my Mastiff's dog crate (she looked lost in there!) and the baby goat rode in my lap. I was afraid to put the baby with her for fear she could trample him if she got scared during the ride. 

After the hour ride home, I can't say I ever want to do that again (the baby squirmed the entire time) but it worked. Next time, I'd get a 2nd dog crate.


----------



## Lockwood (Nov 8, 2011)

I've hauled them many different ways, like mentioned above. 
Babies on my lap (or tucked inside my coat for the really little ones.)
Young goats in smaller crates in the back seat. 
In various dog crates, sized appropriately, in the truck bed when the weather has been nice, in the horse trailer for bad weather, and even in the back seat of the truck. Not reccommended though, they don't take kindly to seat belts.  

I was taking a full sized doe to be bred several years ago before I owned my own buck. The road I had to traverse needed a 4X4 to get up it and was too trecherous to even think about taking a trailer up in winter. It was also too dangerous to try the crate in the back method either, and freezing cold wind + goat = sick goat as they can't take the cold wind.
So I folded down the back seats (they fold flat like the back of a suv or mini van) spread a tarp out (for moisture control) and covered with an old blanket. 
A friend drove while I held the goat in the back. Many goats will lay down while in motion, but some will try to jump up front and do the driving. That's why it is not reccommended without help!
Like horses or dogs, some love car trips, others hate them.
I've also hauled them and my alpacas (not together though) in the back of my SUV.
Boy the looks I get when traveling down the road with alpacas is hilarious.
No body can figure out what the heck kind of dog is that??!


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Lol! Thanks, folks! Because I was wondering how to transport the babies home if I get them. Taking a big horse trailer for 2 tiny kids just doesn't make any sense. I have dog crates though, but I like the lap idea better (and yes, there will be 2 or 3 of us going).

BTW, I used to commute to NYC and back to MD (I was living on "2 places"), and my dog and cat were driving with me every time. The cat usually on my lap, and the dog was always sitting on front seat all road long. The workers at the gas station I used to stop at (DE/NJ line) always got out to look at them sitting in car (while I was visiting a store or bathroom).


----------

