# Odd colored yearling QH



## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

So my friend Ashley is buying this filly and we're having difficulty pegging the coloring that's going on here. She's a yearling, so you figured it would have sorted the foal color mash up already? The sire is a golden palomino, I'll post a pic. The owner says the mare is bay but no photos of her and she's been sold so I couldn't look at her.

She looks palomino but she has jet black hair all through her mane and tail. And although her legs look dark, it's only a dark brown and it's all over the place - some people were saying frosted buckskin and I'm not sure I see it but the tips of her ears were also darker I think? I swear I almost thought palomino dun briefly, but no leg barring and no dorsel stripe whatsoever. I also thought maybe counter shading or sooty but doesn't it work from the top down, not the bottom up? She has absolutely no dorsel stripe or dark shading on her back whatsoever.

Let me have it girls!









































































Oh we could also use some name suggestions! She's a purebred grade Quarter Horse. Sire is registered, dam is Grade. Here is the sire:




























Cheyennes Gold Bar Quarter Horse

Also just realized he's Impressive bred. :? What are the odds the mare is to? *sighs* Pretty sure we have no information on her.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

She buckskin. In all honesty I would tell your friend to hold off buying until you know her HYPP status... At least that is what I would do.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

So will her legs get darker as she ages? 

Well, the stallion is 11 and has never had symptoms. And this woman has sold horses all over North America for several years and never had a complaint and this one sires most of them. We'll try to find out more about the mare but the odds seem like 1 in a million.


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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

Odds of the mare being Impressive bred is 50/50. Either is or isn't. Lol has the site been tested for HYPP? If not I'd get your mare tested. Either way she should get tested since the dam is unknown. 

I want to say she's a sooty palomino but I'm not sure if sooty can cause dark legs like that. Do you have any pictures of her in the sunlight or pictures of her back? It almost looks like I can see zebra striping on the sire but not too sure.
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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

NDAppy, what is causing the mane to be so light if she is actually a buckskin?
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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Yes she should get darker. And I was going to say yes on testing, but I found the stud's sire is N/N. I personally would still test, since the dam was grade and I would want to go in knowing full well if there was HYPP or not.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Buckskin with lots of frosting. Maybe a little sooty at work too?

And im confused by the "purebred grade quarter horse" if dam isnt registered, this filly is Grade. No exceptions. Or call her half QH. Purebred Grade just contradicts itself. Lol.

Shes cute. Looks like she may have her sires hindend which im not fond on. But she has a lovely face!

Name suggestions:
Remy/Remi
Remix
Daisy
Mya
Mia
Ziva
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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Right but if the sire happens to be N/H (which is the only possibility since the Impressive line is N/H and it's the only line in his pedigree), does it even matter if the mare was Impressive bred or not? Couldn't the filly be N/H regardless even with an N/N mare?

This stud has been used to breed most of the purebred QH foals on her ranch, all without symptoms. 

No, this is a very low key operation. She's spending about $400 on this filly. I noticed she was breeding a few frame studs to and I don't think she knows the danger of that either. Pretty positive she wouldn't have a clue who Impressive even was.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

CLaPorte432 said:


> Buckskin with lots of frosting. Maybe a little sooty at work too?
> 
> And im confused by the "purebred grade quarter horse" if dam isnt registered, this filly is Grade. No exceptions. Or call her half QH. Purebred Grade just contradicts itself. Lol.
> 
> ...


Grade does not mean crossbred. It means unregistered. I have a purebred Grade Arabian as well. Being Grade does not negate the fact that she's still a purebred Arab. Why on earth would you call her Half QH when she's not? "What was her dam"? "Uhhhh....not a QH?"


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

MM - there is only one cross to Impressive on the sire, and that is the sire's sire. I found the sire's sire was supposedly tested as N/N so HYPP from him wouldn't be a worry, but from the dam it would be.

As for how light? Some just are that way. They can be super light, but will normally have tell tale signs of what they are underneath.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

I agree, and disagree. If its not on paper, in a registry, how can anyone know for sure? People lie? The dam could be "purebred" but never registered. Or she could look like a QH so thats what they claim she is.

I have an unregistered Curly. Hes a Grade. I know exactly where his sire and dam came from. I know when he was born. I know the breeder, but hes still Grade and thats what hed be sold as cause i dont have proof to follow what i say.

Honestly, after everything your saying about the breeder, id recommend your friend taking her business elsewhere. Supporting these backyard breeders that dont pay any mind to genetic diseases is dispicable and unwarrented in the business. She could get a nicely bred, registered, already broke horse for $400 if she looks. The economy is bad for horse buying so shes bound to find a deal.
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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

I LOVE the silver hairs in the mane and tail ... <3


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Thanks a TON NdAppy for finding that out for me. Honestly, HYPP is literally non existent in these parts. He's one of the one Quarter Horses around I've seen even go back to Impressive - literally every registered QH in these parts was bred from old Joe Reed stock, especially the Grades or non-show horses. The odds of the mare having HYPP is so unlikely, I think it's worth a $400 gamble to Ashley.

I will, however, be mentioning it to the woman who breeds these guys. She breeds almost totally crossbreds (her sires are all registered QH and Paints but the mares are all Draft/TB/QH mixes with a couple Grade QH's and a couple registered QH's), so I imagine it's just not much of a concern for her anyway.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Why on earth would you call her Half QH when she's not? "What was her dam"? "Uhhhh....not a QH?"


Ummm............What? 

So this fillys sire isnt full QH, making her at least *Half QH*? Hmmm...I must have read wrong.
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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

ClaPorte - We live in Canada, not the US. We're not even in the same BALLPARK as you guys regarding horses. All we HAVE are backyard breeders, including those breeding registered stock. A local barn breeding Warmbloods brags about twins. Only "hoity toity" people call vets for breeding. Nobody knows about frame, nobody knows about genetic disease, nobody cares. We recently had a vet give a free 3 hour presentation on first aid at a local farm and the farm requested opinions on other topics if it occured again - I requested a presentation on responsible breeding, testing, and what to know because NOBODY around here has a CLUE. 

We live in Manitoba. The most expensive horse for sale is $10,000 and NOBODY will buy it here. We own cow ponies and crossbreds and have a more ******* equine population then NOVA SCOTIA does. It's ridiculous, but welcome to our life. We manage.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Filly with similar coloring at the top on this site - Buckskins


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

CLaPorte432 said:


> Ummm............What?
> 
> So this fillys sire isnt full QH, making her at least *Half QH*? Hmmm...I must have read wrong.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


WHAT?! I said people are going to be a LOT more confused when we call her Half QH and then they ask what the sire was and we go "QH" and ask what the dam is and we say "QH". You can call your Curly whatever you feel like. That does not somehow alter the fact that GRADE means unregistered, not "not purebred".


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## EveningShadows (May 18, 2009)

NdAppy said:


> Filly with similar coloring at the top on this site - Buckskins


 
Very similar and quite interesting how they can have such white frosting in the mane and tail! My mare's first colt was a buckskin and he has *some* frosting, but just the outside hairs on his mane really stayed. Very cool!


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

looks like a dunalino,can see dorsal in first pics
http://www.thehorseguide.com/HorseColors/Dunalino.htm


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Nope, trust me, I examined her back myself. There isn't a single hair on her back that's colored any darker then the rest of her body/barrel area.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Nope, trust me, I examined her back myself. There isn't a single hair on her back that's colored any darker then the rest of her body/barrel area.


Well you have seen her in person so i'll take your word:wink: just that 2nd pic looks like she a darker strip on her back.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

It's just a shadow from the barn.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I agree that she's just a very unusually colored buckskin. Similar to the "wild bay" coloring, but with a cream gene too LOL.

Just to be on the safe side, I would go ahead and have her tested for HYPP. Knowing for certain would never be a bad thing.

Given a bit of time to fill out and grow up a bit, she should be a very nice looking little filly. Her hocks are a bit straight, but other than that, she looks to have good conformation for a backyard bred horse. If she grows up decently balanced, it's not too bad of an investment for that price.


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## Lins (Nov 8, 2011)

Wow, I live in MB and completely disagree with your rant about the quality of horses. The most expensive horse here is 10k?? No way. I've ridden horses that sold for more then 10k. 

There are backyard breeders all over the world. U must mingle with only that crowd to have such a negative perspective!

Just had to defend my hometown respectable breeders 
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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Buckskin. Bear in mind also that this is a yearling. It can take a few years for the dark points of a bay based horse to really be "set".


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Thank you Lins. That rant was almost...comical.

"Nobodys tests their horses. Nobody cares here." What a statement.

*shakes head*
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## MelissaAnn (Aug 26, 2011)

This is an interesting discussion regarding the "purebred grade GH" claim. I can see both sides. Maybe just call her unregistered QH? We have an unregistered appy at my barn....no one claims that he isn't an appy (but he has the benefit of his coloring being LOUD). I do agree that buying an unregistered horse is a risk. 

Regarding the HYPP status: the SPB that I lease is impressive bred and does not have HYPP, hopefully that gives your friend some glimmer of hope. I also know a horse with confirmed HYPP who is living a happy productive life, his owner just has to be super cautious about his diet and his exercise win the heat of the summer here in the humid midwest. Obviously it doesn't work for every horse with HYPP, but his owner manages.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Oh give me a break. I've lived here my entire life and although we DO have a few good breeders and trainers, 90% of the expensive stock sells OUTSIDE Manitoba. I'm not saying we don't produce some nice horses, I'm saying they don't SELL here. You have to be blind to actually believe that Manitoba is on the same level as virtually any horse community in the US. I've BEEN to these barns, I've seen firsthand how much knowledge is lacking when it comes to breeding. I'm not saying absolutely everyone in Manitoba is like this but the uneducated far outweigh the educated. We're seriously lacking in even adequate veterinary services for such things. 

And now, if you don't mind, this was a post about color, not your completely unfounded opinions about what she SHOULD be buying. 

Thanks smrobs - I think she's a decent little filly for what she is. All Ashley is interested in is a project to work with and use for light trail riding when she's old enough. She just doesn't need anything fancy.
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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Chiilaa said:


> Buckskin. Bear in mind also that this is a yearling. It can take a few years for the dark points of a bay based horse to really be "set".


Thankies! I think she's pretty excited that she's actually buckskin - she didn't really want another palomino but fell in love with this little gals demeanor. She's very sensitive and respectful of space, I was able to move her anywhere I wanted with a finger tip. At the end of the day, temperament was at the top of the list, conformation second and color last. It's nice when things work out in the fun color department though! Really excited to see how she matures with her color.
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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Lins - I apologize if you felt I was disrespecting the respectable Manitoba breeders, it wasn't my intention. I didn't say the most expensive horse was 10K, I said for sale and that Manitobans wouldn't buy it. Most successful riders in Manitoba are finding their horses outside of Manitoba. Of course there are always exceptions and we DO have some lovely Warmblood breeders here, I just find we are a little slow catching up with the rest of the world in the way we conduct our equine business.
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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Oh give me a break. I've lived here my entire life and although we DO have a few good breeders and trainers, 90% of the expensive stock sells OUTSIDE Manitoba. I'm not saying we don't produce some nice horses, I'm saying they don't SELL here. You have to be blind to actually believe that Manitoba is on the same level as virtually any horse community in the US. I've BEEN to these barns, I've seen firsthand how much knowledge is lacking when it comes to breeding. I'm not saying absolutely everyone in Manitoba is like this but the uneducated far outweigh the educated. We're seriously lacking in even adequate veterinary services for such things.
> 
> And now, if you don't mind, this was a post about color,* not your completely unfounded opinions about what she SHOULD be buying. *
> 
> ...


People aren't trying to be rude about all this, just trying to educate you and potentially save you and your friend potential heartbreak and injuries if this horse does have HYPP.
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## Country Woman (Dec 14, 2011)

I love the mares color


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I am fully aware of what HYPP is and what goes along with it. I was not referring to that regardless, I was referring to unnecessary commentary on what a Grade is and why people shouldn't buy from backyard breeders. Based on the information available to us, I do believe the odds of this mare having HYPP are so low that Ashley is willing to take the gamble. And even if she did, she would love her through it anyway. Ashley is just as content to sit and talk with a horse and brush it as she is to ride it.
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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Also, I respect the opinion of MOST people on this forum. I've been here for years and the regular members have earned my utmost respect for their knowledge, seniority and respectfulness. Ndappy and Chiilaa are my go to gals for anything color related. Smrobs is one of the finest trainers and horse woman I know. 

N00bs who think they're being cute by starting an argument or trying to sound smarter then they are can go find another thread full of beginners to attempt to impress. And yes that refers to one and only one person on this thread currently and I'm sure they know exactly who they are.
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## Lins (Nov 8, 2011)

Kind of curious as to where you ride or board, as I know people in most of the barns in and around Winnipeg.
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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

I wouldn't exactly discredit some people and consider them "noobs". They may be new on the forum but experienced outside of it. I agree with some of the previous posters on some points but I didn't bring it up as you would get upset. I'm sorry that you and the people around you are behind the times of knowledge and technology (for a lack of better wording) horse wise but no need to lash out to those trying to help educate. 

Good luck.
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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I'm at Darrell Browns right now and loving it after several boarding barn letdowns. My mom and aunt grew up with Elaine Banfield so she's an old family friend and I used to work for her when she had Pine Air. She certainly had a very decent breeding practice and cared - and most of her foals sold out of province. Half the places in the area breeding "Warmbloods" though are just crossing Warmblood studs on PMU mates and then trying to charge an arm and a leg for them. They may have a fancy stud but theyre absolutely no different then a backyard breeder using registered stock horse studs on PMU type mares. 

I suppose I'm not really being fair to Manitoba. I SHOULD be saying "Oakbank and Winnipeg". I'm pretty sure Brandon has a lot more nice barns and decent show stock. I know we have Eric and Danae Martin for reputable hunter/jumper and Elaine Banfield for Dressage but then it's just a helluva lot of city people turned country buying barns in Oakbank who think they know what they're doing.
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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Bridgertrot - I am certainly grateful for any relevant opinion and advice and I certainly would never judge someone for the length of time they've been on the forum. However, when certain individuals are posting literally only to argue about things that aren't even relevant to my questions or topic, I don't have any respect for that. Their length of time in the forum only helps confirm what kind of a troll they are - they have no idea who I am and just want to try and "exert some power" to look cool. It's rather sad really.
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## Lins (Nov 8, 2011)

Very valid points. I do get what you're saying, and have had those thoughts myself over the years. I have worked with many different trainers, and in MB, people just aren't as concerned about papers. There are way too many people that give the MB horse industry a bad name. But there are some really great horse people. Not very many good breeders though. 

So I do get your point now that you've explained it thoroughly. 

I didn't mean to start a whole other discussion within your thread, I just couldn't help defending my home province lol
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## Nuala (Jan 2, 2012)

As for the color I would say a chromed buckskin. 

name suggestions --- Cheyenne Dreams in Silver?


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

With the two different ideas of what a grade horse is you have to realize that the term in canada is one thing and the term in the US is another thing. There are different opinions, does that mean they're wrong? No, if you had asked me I would have said a grade is ANY unregistered horse. Not the horses that CAN be registered in a respectable registry but the owner just hasn't registered the horse, but the horse that may have one registered parent but the other is not, their offspring is a grade horse. People lie, cheat, and just will flat out make up a complete story when selling or breeding a horse. If you cannot prove to me that a horse is purebred then it's not. I don't care if you THINK it is or you know the grade horse's unregistered parent.. You don't know the whole history of that grade horse where as a registered horse you can trace back generations. Which can be a HUGE benefit. I won't go into all of the detail on it but I will say just because the term "grade" means something to you and means something different to myself and CLaPorte doesn't mean it's wrong. A grade is a grade, there's no way around it.

I'm not a color expert but if NdAppy and Chillaa have posted and shared their knowledge and opinions I would completely believe without question that the horse is a buckskin. 

That's my two cents.


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## SolsticeDream (Aug 15, 2012)

Hey guys, I'm a part of the board now, and here's some more pictures of her with MUCH better lighting..

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-pictures/had-share-134721/#post1646028


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Cute girl for sure and those pics reenforce the buckskin.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

DrumRunner - I never said a grade is only an unregistered horse. A grade IS anything that isn't registered whether it's purebred or not. However, being TOLD I'm wrong by someone just because they have a different opinion is just rude. 

I love the photos outside with the owners niece - that coloring really comes out!
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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Alright, I'm not trying to argue with you but I wanted to point out that CLaPorte isn't wrong either and you were telling her the same thing that you are getting defensive over. That was my point.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Thanks a TON NdAppy for finding that out for me. Honestly, HYPP is literally non existent in these parts. He's one of the one Quarter Horses around I've seen even go back to Impressive - literally every registered QH in these parts was bred from old Joe Reed stock, especially the Grades or non-show horses. The odds of the mare having HYPP is so unlikely, I think it's worth a $400 gamble to Ashley.
> 
> I will, however, be mentioning it to the woman who breeds these guys. She breeds almost totally crossbreds (her sires are all registered QH and Paints but the mares are all Draft/TB/QH mixes with a couple Grade QH's and a couple registered QH's), so I imagine it's just not much of a concern for her anyway.


 
Why gamble at all when the test is $40. I would rather be out the $40 and know for sure either way then spend $400 and not know and run even a slight chance of the mare being HyPP. Does not mean the horse is not worth the price even if she maybe N/H but if she is then there are things you need to know and do.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

To me a grage horse is ANY horse who you can not independitly check their pedigree on BOTH side. Not what someone says. Even if you know where the horse came from and their sire and dam if I can not independitly varify this it means nothing and the horse is grade.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

See and this is exactly why I think it's silly to call a horse just a grade instead of acknowledging their breed if you're aware of it. If I had called her just a Grade or she was sold as just a Grade, nobody would even question her HYPP status. But because she IS a QH regardless of being unregistered, genetic disease IS an issue. 

I'm sorry but I find it flat out irresponsible to NOT mention the horse is likely purebred even if it's a Grade. Being unregistered doesnt change the fact that my mare is an Arabian and could carry Arabian genetic diseases that could result in dead foals if she's ever bred to a carrier Arabian stallion. Selling her as "jus a Grade" puts that risk out there. At least if someone knows the animal is possibly or likely purebred, they know they should test or not breed to carriers. 

And DrunRunner, I told claPort that she can call her Curly whatever she wants. She's the one trying to tell me I shouldn't be calling grades purebred when they ARE. Purebred and registered are two completely different things and one is NOT dependent on the other.
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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

The problem is that a purebred they can still have a genetic defect as can any grade. If I was buying a grade horse regardless of what it was it would be tested for HyPP. The others make little difference b/c they are resecive and I will not breed a grade horse. So that makes no differance.

So while I have no problem with calling a horse a grade QH. I do have a problem with calling a horse a purebred grade as there is no such thing. UNLESS there is some way to prove independently of proving parentage. Like back before AQHA let multiples be reg. There was a DNA reg. Those horses where not grade for the simple fact that their parentage could be varified independently of what the owners where claiming.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

nrhareiner said:


> So while I have no problem with calling a horse a grade QH. I do have a problem with calling a horse a purebred grade as there is no such thing. UNLESS there is some way to prove independently of proving parentage. Like back before AQHA let multiples be reg. There was a DNA reg. Those horses where not grade for the simple fact that their parentage could be varified independently of what the owners where claiming.


This..in so many ways this is correct.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> See and this is exactly why I think it's silly to call a horse just a grade instead of acknowledging their breed if you're aware of it. If I had called her just a Grade or she was sold as just a Grade, nobody would even question her HYPP status. But because she IS a QH regardless of being unregistered, genetic disease IS an issue.
> 
> I'm sorry but I find it flat out irresponsible to NOT mention the horse is likely purebred even if it's a Grade. Being unregistered doesnt change the fact that my mare is an Arabian and could carry Arabian genetic diseases that could result in dead foals if she's ever bred to a carrier Arabian stallion. Selling her as "jus a Grade" puts that risk out there. At least if someone knows the animal is possibly or likely purebred, they know they should test or not breed to carriers.
> 
> ...


I think the big difference is when you're selling versus when someone is just curious. When you're selling an unpapered horse, it's kind of ridiculous to claim it's purebred, because you can't prove it. You can and should share what you know of the horse's breeding, but any intelligent buyer is going to take that information with a grain of salt. It's also their responsibility to decide if they want to test for genetic diseases, because that possibility is always there for horses of unknown breeding, regardless of what breed(s) the seller claims the horse is.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

I never said you were wrong. In your first posts, before i even responded...you say absolutely NOTHING about the dam being an "unregistered purebred QH" go back and read what you wrote. You said dam was a grade. Sire was the registered horse.

Then, the next post you posted, you stated you know nothing of the dams history.

And THAT is why i asked about the "purebred grade QH" statement you made. It didnt make sense which is why i questioned it and suggested you call her a half QH. *headdesk*
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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

OFERGAWDSAKE ... *rolls eyes*

She says tomato
I say tomaaaato
She says potato
I say Potaaaaato

grade/unregistered
registered/purebred

Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Thanks Verona, I agree. I really cannot believe the fuss being made because I called her a purebred Grade. I was asking a question about color, I wasn't sitting back and thinking about what I was calling her - I was just clarifying what her breed was as often color alone can be dictated by a breed (ie. some breeds just can't be certain colors). I would never sell a horse advertising as purebred in this sense - I would merely refer to it as an unregistered QH or Arab or whatever the case may be. 

However calling her a Half QH is just as asinine and ridiculous as insisting a Grade is purebred. As far as I'm concerned grade in itself is not a BREED - its a designation of their registration status. 

Anyway, thanks to those who actually helped with what I wanted help with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> I really cannot believe the fuss being made because I called her a purebred Grade.





MacabreMikolaj said:


> However calling her a Half QH is just as asinine and ridiculous as insisting a Grade is purebred. As far as I'm concerned grade in itself is not a BREED -


You are completely contradicting yourself in those two sentences..Here you state that a horse can be a "purebred grade", as in being a purebred grade, as in a breed... You are putting it in a breed category and there is no such thing.. Which you yourself said in the last sentence I quoted.. So which is it? 

Am I the only one seeing this? 

Half QH is a very good term to describe the horse. One parent is 100% sure QH.. We know that..You have said you don't know the mare's back ground so somewhere back there she may NOT be full QH, that would make the mare a mixed breed. You cannot know (Because she's a grade) her entire back ground so you cannot say for sure that she's full QH.. That would, in correct terms, classify the horse as half QH.. That are the things you can prove.





MacabreMikolaj said:


> I really cannot believe the fuss being made because I called her a purebred Grade.





MacabreMikolaj said:


> ridiculous as insisting a Grade is purebred.


What? You are the one saying the horse in question is a "pure bred" grade but above you are saying it's ridiculous to say a grade is purebred?


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I was referring to OTHERS ideas that referring to a Grade as purebred was ridiculous. 

You can drop this now. It's over. Kindly stop beating the dead horse and move on already.
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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

IF this was my mare I would do 2 things. First test her for HyPP and then reg her in one of the Buckskin reg. Since the sire is reg and known (as in you know who her sire is) then you would have a way to prove it down the road. It may also open up oportunities down the road also.


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## smguidotti (Jul 31, 2012)

Hello, 

Since the Stallion is Chestnut + 1 creme modifier and the dam is a genetically unknown grade . . . I would suggest there could be a silver modifier in there. 

1) The Silvery hairs in the main and tail
2) the very light creme [diluted] coat
3) light points that almost look faded

The silver gene is not common, almost unheard of in QH/APHA but it DOES EXIST. 

I doubt there is any sooty in his coat as sooty DARKENS hairs not lightens. 

Here is a TWH buckskin silver dapple: 

Here is a morgan of the same color (there is a lot of variety in expression), notice how light/faded the points are? Much like your friend's horse. 



Here is my favorite, a morgan mare:


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Drum, though she typed it out in a confusing manner, I think I know what she's getting at. Not all grades are purebred but not all purebreds are registered so it is possible for a horse to be both. Just like my Denny. I know for a fact he's a purebred QH, but he has no papers, therefore he is a "purebred" grade...though I generally just call him a grade QH.


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## AQHSam (Nov 23, 2011)

MelissaAnn said:


> This is an interesting discussion regarding the "purebred grade GH" claim. I can see both sides. Maybe just call her unregistered QH? We have an unregistered appy at my barn....no one claims that he isn't an appy (but he has the benefit of his coloring being LOUD). I do agree that buying an unregistered horse is a risk.
> 
> Regarding the HYPP status: the SPB that I lease is impressive bred and does not have HYPP, hopefully that gives your friend some glimmer of hope. I also know a horse with confirmed HYPP who is living a happy productive life, his owner just has to be super cautious about his diet and his exercise win the heat of the summer here in the humid midwest. Obviously it doesn't work for every horse with HYPP, but his owner manages.


We refer to unregistered horses as Grade. It can be translated to mixed breeding or simply unregistered.

If the grade horse CAN be registered (at a cost to the owner) it is referred to a registerable horse.

But ANY horse sold at our Missouri auctions without transferrable papers is sold as GRADE and that horse's price tag is usually (not always) but usually lower than a horse sold as Registered.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

smrobs said:


> Drum, though she typed it out in a confusing manner, I think I know what she's getting at. Not all grades are purebred but not all purebreds are registered so it is possible for a horse to be both. Just like my Denny. I know for a fact he's a purebred QH, but he has no papers, therefore he is a "purebred" grade...though I generally just call him a grade QH.


I understand that, but Denny would be considered an unpapered QH, not a purebred grade QH.. Or like even the OP's Arabian, it's an unpapered Arabian.. So yes, I can understand where you're both coming from..Maybe it's just different terms but it was very contradictory in the OP's posts.

But with the horse in questions dam, they don't know the back ground of the mare so there's no way in knowing that she's not just a grade mix of something. That's my point, you can't just take someone's word for things when buying a horse like the filly, a seller at a small operation trying to sell a grade filly whose HYPP status is unknown.. I wouldn't put my money on the dam being a purebred or unpapered QH just because someone said so. Show me proof.


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## Waspy Leo (Aug 15, 2012)

*Dapple Silver Gene*

I am almost certain that this filly carries the silver dapple "Z" gene that gives her the silver color in the mane and tail and sooty legs. I have a Silver Bay QH stallion with this rare gene. It was only recognized and papered by AQHA as a QH color in 2002. You can send hair samples to color lab for confirmation. For more info on the Silver Gene see my web site www.ingasmith.com on my stallion page Waspy Leo


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## smguidotti (Jul 31, 2012)

Waspy Leo said:


> I am almost certain that this filly carries the silver dapple "Z" gene that gives her the silver color in the mane and tail and sooty legs. I have a Silver Bay QH stallion with this rare gene. It was only recognized and papered by AQHA as a QH color in 2002. You can send hair samples to color lab for confirmation. For more info on the Silver Gene see my web site www.ingasmith.com on my stallion page Waspy Leo
> View attachment 109873


HEY! I almost put a link to your stallion in my comment too! I am glad I am not the only one here who notices the potential for silver here too!


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

See and that really makes sense. Shy (sire) could easily be hiding it as a palomino because it doesn't display on chestnut based horses, it only affects black. But the odds seem so slim! Has there ever been a trace of silver in the pedigree I posted?

Very interesting. The filly certainly looks IDENTICAL to the photo you posted, smguidotti. It will be very interesting to see her grow up and if she stays this pale, I'll certainly be sending off a DNA sample along with Jynxy's test for cream and LWO! :lol:


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## SolsticeDream (Aug 15, 2012)

:shock:


This is exciting, was really looking to seeing her grow up, but now I'm REALLY curious to see what her colour does!
Thanks guys!


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## hemms (Apr 18, 2012)

Just gotta say with all intensity, that Impressive lines ARE present and alive in Manitoba stock, many thanks to Kelly and Ruby Stuart of Ericksdale (among others, I have no doubt). 

Former PMU? I don't remember, but they pump 'em out and are known in the community, for certain. Good or bad depends on your side of the fence, just as it does with Ms. Banfield. *cough* 

That said, I can't decide if I want to get my North Dakota QHX tested or not... Love him to bits and he's certainly non-symptomatic. If he was a mare with any chance of some Bozo knocking her up, I'd want to know. (Yay geldings!)

And I realize that the barn door is already closed (many congrats on your GORGEOUS girl, buyer!) but it is a VERY feasible option in this market to haul down to the States for a beyond stellar purchase, as compared to what you can find up here. Just sayin, for those looking for serious prospects.

Of course, at the Spring Rocking W sale, at least 50% of sellers passed because they could not get $2000 for their $5000 quality stock. Just brutal. 100% of the buyers were dancing away in glee.


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## Waspy Leo (Aug 15, 2012)

*Silver Dapple Z Gene*

Here are a couple of pictures from Waspy Leos filly born 2010. Her dam was a palomino and it looks like she has Waspys silver z gene. Pretty cool!! ​


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Hemms - I didn't say Impressive lines weren't present, I said HYPP didn't seem overtly present. Impressive does not automatically mean HYPP. In most Quarter Horses I've looked at for sale, most appear to have Joe Reed lines and old racing lines moreso then the halter lines. This is one of the first horses I've seen for sale with Impressive and as its only on the top sire line and another member determined one of those sires was almost certainly N/N, it would have been impossible to carry down as none of the dam lines were Impressive bred. 

I am not quite as involved in the Western world as I am in the English world, but I haven't ever heard of someone dealing with HYPP here and nobody I've talked to even seems to know what it is unless they're a professional trainer (ie. Garth Helstrom). I'm sure it HAS happened, but I'm fairly certain nobody is specifically breeding for it like so many in the US or other parts of Canada still do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smguidotti (Jul 31, 2012)

Waspy Leo said:


> Here are a couple of pictures from Waspy Leos filly born 2010. Her dam was a palomino and it looks like she has Waspys silver z gene. Pretty cool!! ​


SHe's gorgeous! Color AND conformation!


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

Looks like a palomino with a silver gene


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

SplashedOvero - palomino cannot display silver. It ONLY affects black based horses.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

So we got Solstice home safe and sound and I am happy to report that I dug deeper on her lines and her dam is not even purebred. Her owner calls her grade QH but she has some
Belgian lines way back and none of her dams side have ever been registered. No HYPP worries!

Also, pretty darn sure the silver theory is correct. Saw a few of his other fillies who show the identical color although a little bit more buckskin obvious! You can almost pick out his foals based on color alone now that I know what I'm looking for!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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