# Please Critique My Position



## sonnygrl (Nov 28, 2010)

from what i can see you look really good. when your troting your shoulders are back and head is up. your heels are down. and you said you sit to far forward? your upper body is very correct. your sitting up and straight not forward. at the canter i can see where your saying you move back and forth. and actualy thats wat you have to do to sit the canter. but maybe your moving your upper body to much. try to keep all the back and forth motion from your hips down. and for me i would like you to gather your reins a little so your hands will come forward just a pinch. other than that you look really good to me.


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## horseluver2435 (May 27, 2009)

Thanks! With the rocking motion at the canter, I was just concerned I was over exaggerating it.


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

Your position is that bad, your hands are way too low though. They should not be in your lap. Also I think you look like you aren't riding. It seems like you are just sitting there and going with the motion. 

You have no contact on the horses mouth..I think your leg looks too far forward...maybe shorten your stirrups up a hole, it may help. 

It also looks like you are just flopping on your butt when you are posting the trot. Your posting seems a little forced and you should be posting more forward, instead you are posting straight up. 

Your horse has a very nice looking canter, but you aren't riding the canter, you are just sitting there and going with the motion. 

Again, your position is nice, you are sitting up straight and your heals are down. But I don't see you being an active rider, you kind of look like you are just sitting there and looking pretty.


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## sonnygrl (Nov 28, 2010)

her posting is correct. when riding a horse there should be a straight line from the shoulder to the hip to the heel. she very clearly shows the line from her shoulders to her hips. its a very nice line that is clear to see. her leg could come back but she is in a dressage saddle so there is some give and take with that. and her "effortless" look is a wonderful one to have with a horse. nothing looks hard or forced to me it all looks very natural


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## horseluver2435 (May 27, 2009)

Alright...
ErikaLynn: 
I recognize I wasn't taking a whole lot of contact in these videos- I'm not entirely sure why, usually I do take much more. 
With my hands, I'll work on bringing them up. How high should they be? 
Can you explain what you mean by 'flopping on your butt'? I guess I'll work on posting forward, I used to have a problem with that, maybe I've relapsed into my old ways.
As for looking 'forced' I can honestly say I don't feel like I'm forcing anything when I ride, though it may look like it. I guess I'll work on that as well, but I've found the more I try to look nice, the worse I look, so I usually am just riding as naturally as possible for me. 
When you say I'm just sitting there, I'm sorry, but I'm really not. I may not be a fantastic rider, but I try very hard to make myself and my horse ride correctly, and I am not just sitting there. How can I change my look so I appear to be an active rider?
EDIT: Just remembered, I have shortened my stirrups since this video (this was a month ago), one hole up. I'll try to get more recent videos.

sonnygrl: Thanks for the defense, but I'm perfectly fine with admitting I'm less than excellent. (Really, I'm a far far far far far far far far far cry) I'm actually in an all purpose saddle, and yes, I have wondered if my leg needs to come farther back. I'll definitely work on that- any suggestions how?


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

horseluver2435 said:


> Alright...
> ErikaLynn:
> I recognize I wasn't taking a whole lot of contact in these videos- I'm not entirely sure why, usually I do take much more.
> With my hands, I'll work on bringing them up. How high should they be?
> ...


I'm sorry if it came across as me saying that you are a bad rider. I think you look really nice and you have a nice position. You have a steady leg, and a nice seat. 

It looks like to me, that you just that...a pretty rider. I'm just going by what I see in the video. I think it's how low your hands are that is throwing me off.

You should have straight line from elbow to bit. Your elbows should be bent. Your arms are straight and planted on the horses withers. There is a preference of where to put your hands. I was always taught to keep my hands up so the bit is correctly positioned in the horses mouth.

If you hands are too low, it's kind of like a reward for your horse, because you don't have the correct contact, if any contact at all. Same with if your hands are too high, high hands makes the horse shorten it's stride and positions the bit high in their mouth. Having your hands up high is beneficial if you are jumping. That way you can shorten and length the stride when needed. 

I also just think your trot is too straight. You are posting up and down instead of leaning a little more forward. Since you are moving up and down, it looks like you are sitting on your butt more than on your crotch. 

Hope I explained myself well enough.


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## sonnygrl (Nov 28, 2010)

its a metter of muscle memory.... getting your leg into the correct possition and keeping it there untill your muscles learn that this is where is should be all the time. what i did was at the halt place my legs farther under my hips and sat for a few seconds and learned how it felt. while riding i would constantly be checking for that "feel" i established at the halt. and reposition my leg if it had sliped forward. that was just how i taught myself and it does take time to have that leg without thinking about it.


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## horseluver2435 (May 27, 2009)

Thank you for clarifying. 

I will definitely work on where my hands are. I think riding with gaited horses, I am a little too careful about not having high hands, like they are supposed to. 

A few months ago I had posted pictures of myself for critique, and was told I was tipping my pelvis too far forward. Perhaps I have over corrected this?

I really like the idea of halting and keeping your leg where it needs to be to get that 'feel'. 
I'll certainly try it once I can ride- it's been around 15* F, so I'm waiting for it to be slightly warmer before I really ride.


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

_First off...what discipline do you ride in? Dressage or hunters or jumpers? _


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## horseluver2435 (May 27, 2009)

I show huntseat, and intro level dressage. I hope to jump eventually, but Rainy (the horse I'm riding) is only 5, and I'm waiting until she's at least 6 to get her trained for jumping.


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## Ne0n Zero (Dec 25, 2008)

Only thing I really can see is that your hands are too far "in your lap". Put them forward a bit, in front of the saddle and maybe lift up a bit. I was taught to ride with my hands only a pinky's length above the withers so the height doesn't look that bad to me, but bring them forward a little.

Your leg could come a bit farther back, but myself having a saddle where the leathers attach a bit farther forward (jumping saddle), I know it's a bit hard to do that when the saddle puts you in a different position. 

Your posting actually looks fine to me, I don't see anything about you plopping into the saddle, maybe a little towards the end you're sitting down a little heavier, but nowhere near plopping down. To my eye, at least, it looks like you're using your legs to lower yourself into the seat.

The canter doesn't look all that bad either, I see a lot of riders that ride like that to go with the motion of the canter.
I myself learned to go from belly/hips down to move with the canter, and I'll tell you right now it feels a whole lot more exaggerated than it looks when you do it that way.


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## horseluver2435 (May 27, 2009)

Thank you for the critique. 
Seems the consensus is my hands need to come out of my lap, and my leg could go slightly back. 
I'm hopefully having a private lesson over Christmas break, so I'll both mention this to my trainer and have the lesson filmed so we can see improvements, if any.


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

_Thanks.  That made it easier to critique. I didn't want to go say this this and this are wrong, even though they could be right for the style of riding that you do. lol_

_Trotting-- If you were riding a dressage test, I think the posting you have would be fine (if you are allowed to post in intro level...?) but for hunt seat, you want just a *slight* lean forward. I think with the slight lean forward, it would put you back more onto your pubic bone then being on your butt. You have no contact with the horse and it looks like he is just plodding along instead of moving a bit more forward, because you aren't making him move on. (I think someone commented about you being a "pretty" rider, not an active rider, and this would be why). Your hands should be in front of you and several inches above the wither._

_Canter--This looks like a dressagey canter to me...butt in the saddle. If your stirrups were longer, it would be an ok canter for dressage, but again, it looks like you are just sitting there and not really making the canter go forward. You have more contact then you did when you were at the trot, but your hands are still too much in your lap... For hunt seat, you would want to be out of the saddle with more of a forward seat._


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## horseluver2435 (May 27, 2009)

Thank you very much. 
I agree, I probably ride more dressage-style than huntseat, but that's because I really don't like the 'butt-in-the-air' style of huntseat that is shown in my area. Quite frankly, in my local open shows (I know, I know, peanuts compared to anything else), I've been placing 1st in my Eq classes. Now, I haven't gone on to ride in canter classes yet (she just plain wasn't ready this past summer), but I think for my area, the way I ride is okay. However, after high school I definitely want to move out of local open shows, and I know I have to conform to what is considered correct.

Sorry for that long spiel, thanks for the critique! I probably should have explained what I ride from the start. Oops.


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

_Theres a difference between being out of the saddle and having your butt in the air. When you have your butt out of the saddle, your upper body should just have a bit more forward position....but as soon as the back gets arched, thats when you get butt in the air. Keep your back straight and you wont get the butt in the air affect. I have a pic somewhere....let me find it. OK...see how I am slightly forward at the canter? Please excuse Bart's tippy toe looking thing, we were mid stride. I have my butt out of the saddle, with just brushing contact. I got two 4ths at this show in the Eq class, one over fences, one in flat. My worst placings ever in an Eq class._

_Also, look where my hands are....they are in front of me, and actually too low in this pic. They should be a little bit higher._

_A lot of the girls that I ride lessons with do the "snap" into and out of release thing, because thats what they think is right. I recently did a clinic and was the only person that was not told to change my body postion, other then being told for my heels to go down, but I had a huge knot in my calf and was having problems getting it worked out to have my heel go down._


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## Mypaintcanjump (Dec 11, 2010)

your position was good exept your hands should b a little higher


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## horseluver2435 (May 27, 2009)

Hm, I think I get what you mean. 
I'll see what I can do! Unfortunately, after going outside this morning and playing with my dog, my shoulder started hurting like crazy. I fell off about a week ago and landed on this shoulder, and thought I got away safe. Apparently not. So I probably won't be riding until next weekend at the earliest- my parents won't let me ride unless I'm 100%.


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## Amlalriiee (Feb 22, 2010)

I would just like to add that keeping your hands low is NOT a reward for the horse as somebody mentioned above. This is a common misconception, and often I find myself making the mistake of dropping my hands too low to try to have "soft" hands. In fact, when your hands are too low, this is actually harsher on the horse's mouth as it pulls the bit down into their mouth. Something to keep in mind! 

One thing I see that has been mentioned is that your leg COULD come back a tad. It's almost in that perfect line but just a TINY bit off, which may cause instability in the posting trot?? Since it's off by so little, this may not be the case. Overall, you look like a very responsive, and lovely rider. I think you ride very nicely with your horse-what a nice match for you! Your shoulders and overall body position are almost text-book perfect, I'd say. Good work!

Just a side note: be careful about shortening too much, often in shortening the stirrups it will bring the leg forward into a chairseat, not back underneath you.


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## Amlalriiee (Feb 22, 2010)

I guess I should add that I'm critiquing more from a dressage point of view than from an over-fences point of view...


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## Mypaintcanjump (Dec 11, 2010)

still great good luck with your schoulder


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## horseluver2435 (May 27, 2009)

VelvetsAB: Thank you for the picture! I definitely see what you mean- around here it's more the fad of literally sticking your butt in the air. I don't even understand how people ride that way...

Anyway.
Amlalriiee: Thank you very much. I've been fiddling with the length of my stirrups for quite some time now, and have yet to find the length that actually suits me. I will be careful of not falling into a chair seat though. Definitely working on my hands then.


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## reachthestars (Jul 2, 2010)

What I see is a girl who is a good rider, but one who hasn't learned to be effective yet. Effectiveness is a hard thing to learn, and it really does come with time - it's something I still struggle with when riding any horse that isn't my own. Other than that, you need to carry your hands, not bury them into your pommel, and bring your legs back and out of the chair seat. One exercise that really helped me build a solid lower leg was to do a proper two-point. Also, riding without stirrups is a huge help (with proper supervision, of course).


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## horseluver2435 (May 27, 2009)

Thank you for the critique.

Could you clarify on what you mean by effectiveness?

I'll definitely try the two-point exercise and maybe do some no stirrup work. Thanks!


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## Mypaintcanjump (Dec 11, 2010)

that would b good


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Hi Horseluver! Remember me?
I agree most with Amlalriee (spell?)., I felt her critique was the best, though you kinda get the gist of the overall things people are seeing. I just wanted to add that I see HUGE improvement. !! you look really calm and easy for your horse to carry. The canter was very nice. Now, can you do that and raise one hand in the air, then the other and still have a good seat? Can you sing a song while doing that? Just to put a bit of relaxation in there, 'cause you looked so serious in that vid.
As for the trot, what I see, from a dressage background, is that becasue your leg is out in front of you, you are posting off of your knee, kind of like it's a hinge. this means that you have to actually bounce off the back of the hrose, and since she wasn't offering you a lot to bounce off of, (lack of impulsion), you look like yoiu could almost be the tinitest bit behind her motion, thus working too hard.
If you posted with your legs more under you, you would utilize all your joints in a very slight accordion style bending and opening to raise yourself and could then touche down very lightly in the saddle. You will feel more energy going down the back of your legs and more in your buttock. You are pulling your self up with your quadraceps . IF your horse started to go more forward suddenly, you would be left behind . 
When you start asking for more impulsion from her and taking enough contact to kind of "string" her,, like stringing a bow, you will have that final element.

I think you really ride quite well and your horse is obviously comfortable and trusting with her rider, and that , above all, is important!


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## reachthestars (Jul 2, 2010)

horseluver2435 said:


> Thank you for the critique.
> 
> Could you clarify on what you mean by effectiveness?
> 
> I'll definitely try the two-point exercise and maybe do some no stirrup work. Thanks!


At this point you're just along for the ride - not asking him to use his back, get under himself, or have any amount of collection. It's about inside leg to outside rein and asking him to bend. As he starts to do this, his back will come up and his head down. At the moment he's happy just going along on a slack rein, which is fine, but for dressage you'll need to start picking up contact. In the canter video you actually have him bent to the outside at one point. It just comes with quality lessons and that moment it 'clicks'. You have the foundation, and that's half the battle.


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## horseluver2435 (May 27, 2009)

tinyliny: I do indeed! Thank you for stopping by.  I think I understand what you mean! So again, getting that leg back and really getting myself up by using the muscles and strength in my legs, not just tossing myself up there, no?


reachthestars:
Ohh, okay. I get it now.  Thank you very much for clarifying. With the bending, etc, I've actually just started doing that in lessons. And Rainy counterbends quite awfully, it's something we're continuing to work on, along with her dropping her inside shoulder around corners- straightness is so difficult!  But my trainer is aware of this problem and we've been doing lots of cone weaving exercises and getting Rainy responsive to my leg. She's come a long way in two years, but she and I still have much to learn.


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## reachthestars (Jul 2, 2010)

Glad to hear that your instructor is having you work on bending and suppling! You really are a good, good rider - it's time you get onto the next phase . I see a lot of potential in you.


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## horseluver2435 (May 27, 2009)

*blushes* Thank you!
I'm lucky to have a coach who rode to the Prix St. George level with her coach's horse and fourth level with her own horse, though she no longer competes in dressage. She's rather wonderful for where am I now, and I'll have a hard time leaving her in three years. But I know if I want to ride for a living or even just ride better than where I am, I need to get away from the area I'm at (not a lot of great barns around in SE MI!) and experience new places, new horses and new trainers. 

Sorry for the spiel.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Hello horseluver2435,

It is lovely to see a very tidy rider with a solid lower leg, none of this wobbling, swinging lower leg that is difficult to correct, well done 
I do agree with what some others have said, that you are more of a passenger than a driver at the moment, and I think that your position is good enough now to be able to take a step up and 'take the handle bars' so to speak. 

My biggest concern is your hands. Please refer to my response to this thread: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding-critique/anything-i-need-improve-while-riding-73131/ for my 'solution' to problems with hands, I believe it will do wonders for you  

Once you have your hands sorted out, I think you will find that your balance improve ten fold and your lower leg will start to come back beneath your centre of gravity. Holding your hands down at your crutch makes it much harder for a rider to maintain a strong core strength to remain upright and effective in the seat. You will find that once your hands are lifted forward and higher, you will become more effective in your ability to use your seat, and will start to become a driver more than a passenger. 

You have a slight chair seat, but your lower leg is so stable that this is not a huge problem. Again refer to my post in the linked thread, as I think you are gripping a little with the knee so my advice on the other thread regarding the upper leg will apply to you as well. This is more so evident in the canter than the trot. I feel that the problem you have of rocking in the canter and being a passenger, is because of the gripping of the upper leg. When the upper legs grips, the hip locks and you will start absorbing the horse's movement with your upper body rather than through your pelvis and core muscles, which induces the 'rocking' motion in canter. If you can unlock your legs and pelvis, your weight will naturally come back to your seat bones and allow the pelvis to roll with the canter, absorbing the motion and allowing the upper body to remain still. 
Another tip for a chair seat, is instead of thinking of pushing your heels down, which subconsciously makes a rider not only push them down, but forward as well, creating a chair seat, instead imagine that you are kneeling down. Kneel your weight into your heels, if you kneel with your lower leg in front of your centre of gravity, you will tip backwards  

Again, so you don't think I'm being a big meanie and saying it's all bad - I do quite a lot of coaching to supplement my income, so I am being VERY picky! You are a lovely, tidy rider with a good foundation for being an effective and talented rider in the future. Best of luck.


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## horseluver2435 (May 27, 2009)

Thank you for the lovely critique! 

I really like the exercises you posted in the other thread- I've actually done the whip exercise to help with my tipping hands, so having you suggest it really lets me know I'm on the right path. I'll also work on unlocking my knees- I've tried to not grip with them, but it's a work in progress. 

I would never think you're a 'meanie'- your critique is very well thought out, and is actually a critique, not just 'yur psoition suks'.


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## horseluver2435 (May 27, 2009)

Friendly bump.


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