# For fun...Help me learn more colors and patterns!



## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)




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## midnighttwilight (Dec 14, 2011)

Ok I'll play this is Atreyu my 14 month old gelding.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Okey-dokey 

Snuffy


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

CLaPorte432 said:


>


Oooh. Tricky. Ok. I'm gonna guess a sorrel frame overo because of the blaze face and one spot, as I can't see the other side? With a flazen mane?


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

midnighttwilight said:


> Ok I'll play this is Atreyu my 14 month old gelding.


I'm guessing brown. Shows some black points, but the mane is not black. Looks more sorrel in the second picture, but since the first pic presents as darker, I'm going to say brown.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

smrobs said:


> Okey-dokey
> 
> Snuffy


I say bay because it looks like the mane* is black as well as showing black points. Very pretty and healthy!


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

All four pictures show the same horse. Third pic he is the one that has his left side to the camera. His dam is the other horse in that image.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

NdAppy said:


> All four pictures show the same horse. Third pic he is the one that has his left side to the camera. His dam is the other horse in that image.


Is he a silver bay? I am not sure if this is right, but his feet are what made me definitely think so?


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

I don't want to crash your thread, but would you like me to confirm where you are right and add on what you have missed?


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## BubblesBlue (Jun 29, 2010)

My little Emmy.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

I would love that! I am, after all, wanting to learn. I can't learn without knowing where I am wrong! Haha

Even getting one right would be awesome!


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

CLaPorte432 said:


>


You were on the right track here. Almost definitely frame. The belly spot is telling us that, but so is the way her blaze is trying to be top heavy, and the way she has so much face white and so little leg white. However, she also has sabino from the looks of it. See the way her blaze avoids her eyes? (very dramatically in this case lol). That's a classic sabino trait.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

ThirteenAcres said:


> I'm guessing brown. Shows some black points, but the mane is not black. Looks more sorrel in the second picture, but since the first pic presents as darker, I'm going to say brown.


The mane is not black due to sun fading, and he appears chestnut in the second picture due to the low sun angle. Never trust photos taken this late in the day for colour, they are always very skewed.

I think this horse is brown too. Brown can and does have black points - it is a variegation of bay after all. I say "think" because he is only 14 months old, and those first few sheds can be really dark, but it's a confident think in this case.

He also looks like he has splash and maybe sabino. See the way his leg markings are even, and fairly "clean" along the top? That's an indicator of splash - the horse looks like he has walked through white paint. The reason I say maybe sabino is his face markings - they are fairly central, not slipping to either side at all. That's something sabino tries to do.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

BubblesBlue said:


> My little Emmy.


Would this be a sooty palomino? I'm guessing that because of the intermingled dark hairs on the back end and also in the mane


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

ThirteenAcres said:


> I say bay because it looks like the mane* is black as well as showing black points. Very pretty and healthy!


Snuffy is brown. Remember that brown can have all the black points that bay has, it's a mutation of the same gene. You can see that Snuffy is brown by the way his soft points are lighter - inside his legs, his flank, his muzzle, around his eye, and in his case in his throatlatch area. If he was bay with sun fading, you would expect the fading to be most obvious where his coat gets the most sun exposure - along his topline.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

So would she more correctly be identified as a frame sabino?


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

ThirteenAcres said:


> Would this be a sooty palomino? I'm guessing that because of the intermingled dark hairs on the back end and also in the mane


She is sooty chestnut. A good way to guess if a horse is chestnut or palomino without knowing their genetics is to look at the way the light interacts with their coat. See in these pictures how the sunlight hits the coat and has a bronze and red note to it? A palomino will have a far more golden tone. Additionally, a palomino's coat would not be this red to start with.

She is, however, sooty. It's the sooty that is causing the shadow marks on her butt, and sooty that is making her mane silvery grey.

Also, you were dead right on NDAppy's fellow. He is silver bay.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

ThirteenAcres said:


> So would she more correctly be identified as a frame sabino?


I would, yes. However, a lot of people wouldn't know what the hell you are talking about, so you may have to dumb it down for them lol


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Chiilaa said:


> She is sooty chestnut. A good way to guess if a horse is chestnut or palomino without knowing their genetics is to look at the way the light interacts with their coat. See in these pictures how the sunlight hits the coat and has a bronze and red note to it? A palomino will have a far more golden tone. Additionally, a palomino's coat would not be this red to start with.
> 
> She is, however, sooty. It's the sooty that is causing the shadow marks on her butt, and sooty that is making her mane silvery grey.
> 
> Also, you were dead right on NDAppy's fellow. He is silver bay.


Yay!! I had a silver bay mare that was originally said to be a chocolate palomino. But then, they also claimed her to be saddlebred and she was NOT a saddlebred by any stretch.


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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

How about this guy...BLM mustang available for adoption currently. And the color on his page is wrong.









I like going on the adoption page and trying to name all of the colors... I had fun with this one:
https://www.blm.gov/adoptahorse/horse.php?horse_id=5241









Am I correct that the last one is a Sooty Flaxen Pangare Chestnut?


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

I'm...overthinking the first a bit. Blue roan comes to mind first, but his red spots make me think bay roan, actually...

On the filly, I would eliminate "flaxen"?


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

First guy is a brown based roan. You can see the way you can mistake it for a black based roan, but the pale muzzle gives it away.

The second girl is flaxen sooty and chestnut, probably pangare too. Sooty on its own never seems to make the mane and tail that grey colour, that's how it interacts with flaxen. It's common in Welshes.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Does the pangare usually present with the sooty mane and tail too? I noticed most pangare identified horses have that color mane and tail, which made me doubt the flaxen.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Here is pangare and flaxen without sooty.


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## HorseLovinLady (Jul 18, 2011)

"My" equine friends are pretty simple.  Here they are.


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## ellygraceee (May 26, 2010)

How about you have a crack at Joe, my old horse  He does have white hairs mixed in with all of the chestnut ones.
ETA: He is full Thoroughbred. 

Joe's socks. 









Late afternoon picture of him after he was clipped (just so you can see the white spots and black spots spread through his coat).









Joe in the middle of the day. 









Joe in the middle of the day with his previous owner. This pic is like 4 years older than the rest. You can kinda see the white hairs mixed in with the chestnut on his rump. 









Late afternoon picture of his blaze. I don't have any pics of the white on his bottom lips and chin though.


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## AnnaHalford (Mar 26, 2012)

Have a go at Luna's colour:

Winter, early morning - 









Summer, midday-ish - 









Markings, a blurry stripe and white lips - 









And spotty feet -


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

I'll be back on a bit later to reply to the new posts and take my guesses! Gotta run out to the barn! ^_^ Thanks so much for all the pics!!


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Yay! I want to play.

Look closely at this picture and ignore the stupid face.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Ok! I'll number my guesses according to order of photos.

1. Sorrel Tobiano
2. Sorrel Tobiano
3. Cremello
4. Palomino Tobiano - The two palominos were the harder ones for me because of their slightly different facial markings...But they don't seem top heavy...I'm still torn on these.
5. Sorrel 
6. Sorrel Tobiano 
7. Palomino Tobiano


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

ellygraceee said:


> How about you have a crack at Joe, my old horse  He does have white hairs mixed in with all of the chestnut ones.
> ETA: He is full Thoroughbred.
> 
> Joe's socks.
> ...


Ok...I would actually say this is a sorrel sabino because of the spiked back stockings, the white lip, and the white intermingled hairs. I know sabino can actually be found in several breeds.

The black spots could be bend or spots.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

AnnaHalford said:


> Have a go at Luna's colour:
> 
> Winter, early morning -
> 
> ...


I'm going to guess a sooty buckskin. (Man my brain is dead today!)


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Poseidon said:


> Yay! I want to play.
> 
> Look closely at this picture and ignore the stupid face.


On the first I am going to say buckskin. 

In the pony...is it a silver dapple black? I would like to see summer pictures.


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## HorseLovinLady (Jul 18, 2011)

ThirteenAcres said:


> Ok! I'll number my guesses according to order of photos.
> 
> 1. Sorrel Tobiano
> 2. Sorrel Tobiano
> ...


 If this is for my post you're right! Out of the seven horses I posted 5 are tobianos and two are solid and all of them are paints.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

HorseLovinLady said:


> If this is for my post you're right! Out of the seven horses I posted 5 are tobianos and two are solid and all of them are paints.


They were for yours! Haha. And yay! I need to stop second guessing myself, but then also I tend to do that when I spend a ton of time looking at colors. Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

ThirteenAcres said:


> Ok! I'll number my guesses according to order of photos.
> 
> 1. Sorrel Tobiano
> 2. Sorrel Tobiano
> ...


1 - not only tobiano. Almost certain this one also has splash. Just like frame causes face white to be top heavy, splash causes it to be bottom heavy.

2 - Again, tobiano with splash, same reason.

3 - Dead right.

4 - Tobiano and frame. See the way the face white is trying to go sideways over the eye? You can also see some of the "messiness" that frame causes, tobiano body patches tend to be neat and rather circular, frame likes jagged.

5 - Probably has sabino. You can see the white star under the forelock, a roanish star like that is probably sabino.

6 - I would guess this one has frame too, as well as tobiano. The face white is trying to spread above the eyes. As well as that, the body white is not connected well to the leg white, which you would expect with that much white on a tobiano without frame. Frame is trying to keep the colour on the legs, tobiano is trying to keep white there.

7 - Tobiano and probably splash. Bottom heavy face white again.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

ThirteenAcres said:


> Ok...I would actually say this is a sorrel sabino because of the spiked back stockings, the white lip, and the white intermingled hairs. I know sabino can actually be found in several breeds.
> 
> The black spots could be bend or spots.


Sabino yes, and you are right, the points on the stockings are the clue here.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

ThirteenAcres said:


> I'm going to guess a sooty buckskin. (Man my brain is dead today!)


I am almost certain that this girl is a brown based buckskin. You can see the lighter parts that you would associate with brown are still there.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

ThirteenAcres said:


> On the first I am going to say buckskin.
> 
> In the pony...is it a silver dapple black? I would like to see summer pictures.


I can cheat a bit here. Yes, she is buckskin. She also has frame (she has been tested and definitely has it) - you can see it in her top heavy blaze, and the way she has so much face white, but so little leg white. She also has a body spot, I think you can see it behind the girth on the right hand side. She probably has splash too - bottom heavy blaze, and maybe sabino because of how even it is, and how messy her sock is.

Pony looks silver black to me too.


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## ellygraceee (May 26, 2010)

ThirteenAcres said:


> Ok...I would actually say this is a sorrel sabino because of the spiked back stockings, the white lip, and the white intermingled hairs. I know sabino can actually be found in several breeds.
> 
> The black spots could be bend or spots.


I've always thought that he was a chestnut sabino. Thank you (and Chiilaa) for confirming that for me


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Yep, the mini was silver black. 

And Chiilaa is correct: Abby is a buckskin frame. No splash, unfortuntely. I was quite disappointed when that test came back negative. And haven't tested for sabino, but I might at some point out of curiosity. 

I circled what I meant when I said look closely. The spot on her side is about the size of a quarter or so. The one on her neck is the size of my thumb print.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Poseidon said:


> No splash, unfortuntely. I was quite disappointed when that test came back negative.


Even the folks who have developed the splash test have said they think there are more splash mutations out there :hide:


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

I do know that only 1 splash gene that has been identified. Who knows. Maybe they'll come out with more tests! 

I will put my more descriptive hat back on and try for more detailed answers. Think I got lazy last night. Haha.

Any more pics??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Chiilaa said:


> Even the folks who have developed the splash test have said they think there are more splash mutations out there :hide:


Maybe there is still some hope! :lol:


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

There are three splash genes identified so far. Splash 1 is far more common than the other two. I haven't had time to look into the differences between the three yet.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Because these horses are all at least part Arab, they are registered as only the basic colors that AHA recognizes. They only recognize Chestnut, Bay, Black, Grey, and Roan (though it's next to IMPOSSIBLE to get them to recognize roan, they'll go with the base coat) for purebreds. You have to document other colors & patterns for the halfs with photos and they still only recognize the basic 5 colors for most.


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## BarrelCowgirl (Jun 4, 2012)

Poseidon said:


>


I think it's just the angle of the pic and the lighting, but in this picture, the horse looks like it has Rabicano too.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

BarrelCowgirl said:


> I think it's just the angle of the pic and the lighting, but in this picture, the horse looks like it has Rabicano too.


She had just gotten a bath, so it's just shininess, no rabicano.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Poseidon said:


> She had just gotten a bath, so it's just shininess, no rabicano.


Btw, I like the expression on her face. Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BarrelCowgirl (Jun 4, 2012)

Poseidon said:


> She had just gotten a bath, so it's just shininess, no rabicano.


 I didn't think so.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

CLaPorte432 said:


>


Yes, Chilly is a flaxen sorrel frame overo. She does carry sabino, AND I believe she carries splash. You can't see it very well in the picture, but the white goes down the side of her nose and underneath her chin. Like paint dripping off of an object.


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## midnighttwilight (Dec 14, 2011)

I posted Atreyu earlier in this thread so now on to his mother. This is Inanna after giving birth to Hubble 6 weeks ago. Second pic is of Hubble jus cause he is cute. I know he is a brown LOL.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

midnighttwilight said:


> I posted Atreyu earlier in this thread so now on to his mother. This is Inanna after giving birth to Hubble 6 weeks ago. Second pic is of Hubble jus cause he is cute. I know he is a brown LOL.


I'm reviving this! I got lazy and forgot to respond to everyone, so here we go again.

The mare is a bay tobiano.

The foal appears brown to me, though he's shedding in this pic and I would love to see new pics of him shed out. The foal shed is always the darkest shed. His little star is cute!


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Because these horses are all at least part Arab, they are registered as only the basic colors that AHA recognizes. They only recognize Chestnut, Bay, Black, Grey, and Roan (though it's next to IMPOSSIBLE to get them to recognize roan, they'll go with the base coat) for purebreds. You have to document other colors & patterns for the halfs with photos and they still only recognize the basic 5 colors for most.


Let's see here...

1. Flaxen chestnut
2. Cremello (Looks a bit more on the creamy side instead of silverish to me for a Perlino?)
3. This one is tricky to me too...I would say Splash because of his bottom heavy facial markings. I'd like to say Tovero because I see different examples of patterns. I know Tovero is a cop-out term. I'd love someone to pinpoint everything on this guy for me.
4. Chestnut sabino...almost surely frame and I think spalsh as well. Is a medicine hat as well it looks like? 
5. Bay Tobi and looks to also have a bottom heavy splash face?


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## RubaiyateBandit (Jan 25, 2009)

I don't have any pictures -- least not ones that would be much fun to guess, since all of my horses are pretty straightforward -- but I do have a couple websites that you might enjoy.
I have a huge interest in horse genetics myself and stumbled upon these.

Horse Coat Color Genetics: An Introduction - This one has a description of the alleles and their interactions, etc, but there's also a little flash program at the end where you can play with the alleles and get an image of what the horse would look like. (I'm kinda bad at descriptions, sorry. xD)

The other one is an online (mostly text-based) game: Virtual Pony Ranch -- and/or it's sister site, Equine Ranch. It's not as childish as it sounds.  Basically you get to run a ranch, show and breed horses, about what you'd imagine from a horse game. Part I like is that they both use actual genetics -- For a new horse, you can just look at the picture and go "Oh, it's a bay", but you can also get a DNA test that will tell you exactly what genes it's carrying. (including coat color, pattern, and a generic recessive genetic disorder). Equine-Ranch is more "realistic" in that you can only test for genomes that have been discovered (not just theorized ones), and more advanced gameplay, but also, after the initial 5 (?) breedings you get, you have to pay real cash to get more, plus several other features that cost cash. VPR is basically the same, just with less features (1 breeding/week, no hired help, only show 2 horses/game day) and not a lot of active players (which makes it hard to find new blood for breeding, and hard to advance in shows.)
Ahh, I think I've ranted enough. If you're interested in more information, or looking to join up on either of those two games, let me know via PM so I don' spam up your thread here! haha


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Here's a good one for you.

Clipped:










Baby picture:










Last fall:










Before clip:










Big hint here (clippers died halfway through, hence the messiness):


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Awwww. First of. Cute. That is his color. 

It almost looks like a silver coat and since you hinted at the dorsal, would he be a silver dun?

Minis have so many interesting colors!!


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

RubaiyateBandit said:


> Horse Coat Color Genetics: An Introduction - This one has a description of the alleles and their interactions, etc, but there's also a little flash program at the end where you can play with the alleles and get an image of what the horse would look like. (I'm kinda bad at descriptions, sorry. xD)


This website is terrible. So many inaccuracies!


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## RubaiyateBandit (Jan 25, 2009)

Chiilaa said:


> This website is terrible. So many inaccuracies!


Ehh, I did forget to mention that. Supposedly it's being updated -- she'd made it years ago or somesuch. But it's good for the general idea to play with, if you already know what you're talking about. Maybe I'm just easily amused.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Chiilaa said:


> This website is terrible. So many inaccuracies!


Aww. I got so excited thinking I ha some corrections! Haha. Darnit
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

RubaiyateBandit said:


> Ehh, I did forget to mention that. Supposedly it's being updated -- she'd made it years ago or somesuch. But it's good for the general idea to play with, if you already know what you're talking about. Maybe I'm just easily amused.


I have to say that I think a color generics based game is a great idea. Would be very cool if it were super accurate!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

ThirteenAcres said:


> Awwww. First of. Cute. That is his color.
> 
> It almost looks like a silver coat and since you hinted at the dorsal, would he be a silver dun?
> 
> Minis have so many interesting colors!!


 Silver black grullo, or so I've been told


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Oooh. So fancy and cute! Lucky guy. 

I wouldn't have guess grulla because honestly I've never known grulla existed in minis! But that's silly because I guess minis can be any come a large horse can be.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

ThirteenAcres said:


> I wouldn't have guess grulla because honestly I've never known grulla existed in minis! But that's silly because I guess minis can be any come a large horse can be.


Minis can be fun. They tend to express the colours "more" than big horses, so can get some pretty crazy stuff going on lol.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Ugh. Stupid phone autocorrecting my texts.


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## FaydesMom (Mar 25, 2012)

Are you still playing the game? What do you think of this little girl? I call her bay roan, but I'm not certain.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

FaydesMom, I PMed you about her color rather than posting to give away the answer. 

ETA: nevermind. I posted before I actually sent it but apparently you chose not to receive PMs.


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## FaydesMom (Mar 25, 2012)

Poseidon said:


> FaydesMom, I PMed you about her color rather than posting to give away the answer.
> 
> ETA: nevermind. I posted before I actually sent it but apparently *you chose not to receive PMs*.


:shock: I did??

Hmmm...I must go find where to change that!


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Poseidon said:


> FaydesMom, I PMed you about her color rather than posting to give away the answer.
> 
> ETA: nevermind. I posted before I actually sent it but apparently you chose not to receive PMs.


So I should expect this to be a trickier answer than what I would first assume??  lol


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

:lol: No. She just said she didn't know what it was for certain, I was going to PM to tell her whether she was right or wrong before you guessed.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Ok. Here is what my very, very, very sleepy brain is saying:

I also think this is a bay roan, but am now in doubt because of above comment. lol So my brain is throwing out the following questions of doubt:

Could this actually be a brown roan and it is hard to distinguish because the roaning makes it harder to see lighter areas?

Is that frosting in the tail or rabicano at play?

Is the back sock spiked enough to be a sign of sabino?


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Baha. She is a bay roan.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Haha. Shame to torture a sleep deprived color hopeful!!

So really, though. Can brown based roams be as hard to distinguish from bays as a solid brown and bay are?


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

I would imagine so. 

This is my BOs' brown roan mare. She's the only one I've actually seen that I can think of, so my experience identifying them is rather lacking. That's the only picture I have of her too, so you can't see much how roan-y she is.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

That's actually a great example. I can see exactly what you mean and clearly see the brown characteristics as well as the roaming on the butt.


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## thiscrazeelife (Jul 1, 2012)

Up for a challenge??


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Are these pictures the same as your avatar horse?

What color were dam and sire? =)


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## thiscrazeelife (Jul 1, 2012)

ThirteenAcres said:


> Are these pictures the same as your avatar horse?
> 
> What color were dam and sire? =)



No, avatar is my cremello colt. 

My filly's sire is perlino, her dam is dun.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

May I ask what base of dun the dam is?


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

That one really is tricky...based on parent info I'd say she was a dunalino.

She almost looks to be champagne, but with neither parent being champagne, that's out of the question.


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## OwnedByAlli (Nov 8, 2011)

This is a horse I used to look after, Patch. I was never told her actual colour, hell I was told she was plain bay at one point! I'm terrible with colours but would like to find out hers! 

Just a side point- I got given a picture from when she was younger and her star actually grew between when she was about 4 and 18 by a good 2 inches in width, 3 in height, and the edges became much cleaner cut. This happen much?


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

ThirteenAcres said:


> That one really is tricky...based on parent info I'd say she was a dunalino.
> 
> She almost looks to be champagne, but with neither parent being champagne, that's out of the question.


Bear in mind that the horse has been clipped in several of those photos. That may skew your perceptions of the horse.


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

i have 2 good ones for you! but im sure you may know them already ..>.> lol 

Sparta
















and Baby, i also want to put a disclaimed here.. i do NOT know her color, but your welcome to guess away, i will put wet and dry photos so you can see the pinto markings well.
Dry








































and Wet photos


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

ThirteenAcres said:


> So really, though. Can brown based roams be as hard to distinguish from bays as a solid brown and bay are?


And sometimes they are hard to distinguish from black roans. Lots of fun lol.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

OwnedByAlli said:


> This is a horse I used to look after, Patch. I was never told her actual colour, hell I was told she was plain bay at one point! I'm terrible with colours but would like to find out hers!
> 
> Just a side point- I got given a picture from when she was younger and her star actually grew between when she was about 4 and 18 by a good 2 inches in width, 3 in height, and the edges became much cleaner cut. This happen much?


Hi! She's a brown tobiano I believe and very cute!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Chiilaa said:


> Bear in mind that the horse has been clipped in several of those photos. That may skew your perceptions of the horse.


My first guess was that she was simply a cremello but base on one cream gene and one dun, that is out of the equation isn't it?

Why do blue eyed horses just make every color and pattern seem 100 times more exotic?? Lol

And wow! These new pics are definitely a step up!! Putting my reasoning hat on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thiscrazeelife (Jul 1, 2012)

I will give you a hint, her dam has one pearl gene. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

thiscrazeelife said:


> I will give you a hint, her dam has one pearl gene.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That is very helpful to know. I would never guess a pearl or champagne gene unless the sire and dam carried either. That's why I asked for dam and sire colors =P

So I'm assuming your mare would be a N/Prl carrier to have passed it on to the filly. So the filly would be carrying a cream gene affected by the N/Prl gene?

To be honest, I'm not sure how typing the pearl gene works except to say that the horse carries the gene. I'm not sure if it'd be correct to say "Pearl Dun" or "Pearl Buckskin", etc?

Would love to know more if you can elaborate on it.


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## thiscrazeelife (Jul 1, 2012)

Well, too be honest, I am just learning all about this stuff myself.  a close friend who lives at the facility I board at studied equine colors and genetics, so I just go to her for any questions I have! Lol but Martini is "technically" called a pearl (cream) dunskin. 
I didn't want to give away the pearl at first cause I was curious what you would call her.  I have heard quite a few interesting guesses since I've owned her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Well there are definitely some color gurus here that I admire for their knowledge. I am trying very hard to learn as much as possible so that I can make confident guesses. As it is now, I'm fairly confident, but still prefer to say I "think" and I "believe" instead of 100% saying this horse is this color and this pattern.

Hopefully one day I'll get there!

The pearl and champagne genes are two that I haven't gone into as deeply as others. I started out focusing on learning to distinguish patterns first and now am moving on to understanding the actual genetics behind it.

I just read on UC Davis that the N/Prl is what affects the cream in such a way as your filly shows with the greenish eyes and more drastic cream presentation.

Very pretty. Now...To look harder at this mustang, because not gonna lie, at first glance I'm a little stumped!!


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

lilkitty90 said:


> i have 2 good ones for you! but im sure you may know them already ..>.> lol
> 
> Sparta
> 
> ...


In the first two pics, is her tail affected by any red dirt or clay? Was curious about that before I try guessing. I can tell you that she's probably frame...sabino...and splash. The mustangs are thought to have gotten their sabino patterns from their draft influence.


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## Regula (Jan 23, 2012)

Here's an easier one...
this is Leo

(little bit of white on his lower lip and white hairs throughout his body)


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

she is fairly clean in all of the photos. nothing to drastic to make her color difference, the 1st one is early spring, the 2nd one is early-mid winter. and the last ones are summer so it gives you an idea of her seasonal differences.


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## thiscrazeelife (Jul 1, 2012)

ThirteenAcres said:


> Well there are definitely some color gurus here that I admire for their knowledge. I am trying very hard to learn as much as possible so that I can make confident guesses. As it is now, I'm fairly confident, but still prefer to say I "think" and I "believe" instead of 100% saying this horse is this color and this pattern.
> 
> Hopefully one day I'll get there!
> 
> ...




You know a lot more then I do, I get so confused over the whole what-white-means-where patterns, etc. But I learn something new every day, I never knew there was so much to equine color until I met my "color/genetics guru" friend. It's quite interesting!!


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## whiskeynoo (Mar 17, 2010)

i've read most of this thread, really interesting stuff =]
i have a few i'd like to share =D
i have an idea on what the colours will be haha 
the first two are pony's at work that me and one of the boss's have been discussing, so i'd like to be able to tell her more about their colour and pretend i'm clever ;] 







this wee lad also has half a blue eye on one side
























here's a real difficult one for ya haha ;] yeah right


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Regula said:


> Here's an easier one...
> this is Leo
> 
> (little bit of white on his lower lip and white hairs throughout his body)


A very pretty black tobiano. =)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

lilkitty90 said:


> she is fairly clean in all of the photos. nothing to drastic to make her color difference, the 1st one is early spring, the 2nd one is early-mid winter. and the last ones are summer so it gives you an idea of her seasonal differences.


Not going to lie...I'm still thinking about your girl.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

whiskeynoo said:


> i've read most of this thread, really interesting stuff =]
> i have a few i'd like to share =D
> i have an idea on what the colours will be haha
> the first two are pony's at work that me and one of the boss's have been discussing, so i'd like to be able to tell her more about their colour and pretend i'm clever ;]
> ...


The first horse is a palomino which appears to have a rather large amount of bend or spots. 

The second, which is sooo handsome, is a palomino as well that looks to be splash and sabino and if I owned him, I'd test for frame. Any white on the other side of his belly?

And the last is a sorrel that also looks to show some splash traits by his bottom heavy blaze.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## whiskeynoo (Mar 17, 2010)

yeah he has white under his belly too, you can kinda see it a bit better here


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## Regula (Jan 23, 2012)

ThirteenAcres said:


> A very pretty black tobiano. =)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, that's what he's registered at - but how come his spots have "blurry" edges and he has white hairs all over his body? Is that an additional gene (sabino maybe?) or is it just a different expression of tobiano? I'm pretty rubbish at horse colors (prefer dogs, haha)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

That's from the tobiano. :wink:


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## Emilyy (Apr 4, 2012)

I'll play! This one is probably easy, but I thought I'd show off her pretty color


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

dont worry thirteen acres, shes a stumper. so im probably going to end up having her tested for everything lol sparta is the easy one to guess.


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## Hedgie (Mar 18, 2012)

Please parden me if I end up embarassing myself by putting a picture of an everyday solid horse on here... I'm just curious about my boy and his sire, because from reading a bit, I've heard that a lot of horses out of this sire have interesting markings (not really my boy :-|).

In this you can see his markings pretty well (left sock is really jagged) - From March of this year (ignore the horrible clipping - I didn't do it)








Here you can see his color better (plain chestnut)
















Sire (Disco Rico):








Sire of Disco Rico (Citidancer):








Again, if they are just plain chromey solids, fine by me.  I love my boy no matter what - just doing research on where he came from.


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## BarrelBunny (Jan 15, 2012)

Ok, so I've been following this thread (like a creeper :wink. I have been guessing at the colors before I read the answer and have been getting a lot of them right! ...I was just looking through pictures of my horses and can't decide whether my mare, Roo, is brown or bay. Some pictures lead me to believe that she's bay, while others I'm thinking brown. All of these pictures were taken this past week. 

This was from the day I got her... :shock: she was fat!








Her mane. Why would she have the "highlights?" What's the technical term for them? (assuming that they have one... lol) They're in her tail, too. 








Her face.








I love the whole color topic! It's my favorite.  I've learned a lot from this thread, too!


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## TexanFreedom (Apr 2, 2012)

midnighttwilight said:


> Ok I'll play this is Atreyu my 14 month old gelding.


I Don't mean to butt-in and steal someone else's thread, but this is tobaino


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

It wouldn't be tobiano. Tobiano likes to cross white over the back. As stated earlier, he's definitely splash, and as chiilaa said, probably sabino as well.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Emilyy said:


> I'll play! This one is probably easy, but I thought I'd show off her pretty color


Red dun and looks to have sabino as well if that's a white splotch on the side as well as the sharp high whites on back.


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## Emilyy (Apr 4, 2012)

ThirteenAcres said:


> Red dun and looks to have sabino as well if that's a white splotch on the side as well as the sharp high whites on back.


I thought she was just a plain 'ol red dun! But yep, she has a couple of those white spots. I thought maybe they might have been injuries but I never thought she was sabino Thanks!!


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

Came across this horse on Craigslist, what color is he?


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## Emilyy (Apr 4, 2012)

Wow! I love that horse's mane! Can you post a link to that ad?


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## midnighttwilight (Dec 14, 2011)

I see people are wanting to know if Atreyu is sabino or tobaino well first pic is of his mom and another pic of him for reference. They are both pinto's (even though the guy bit my head off refering them as pintos LOL) because she is a 1/2 foxtrotter 1/2 percheron cross and Atreyu is 3/4 foxtrotter 1/4 percheron.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

ThirteenAcres said:


> Hi! She's a brown tobiano I believe and very cute!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


....that's what throws me off......I get the body color....brown tobiano....but then there is black at the feet and in the mane and tail......that isn't tri-colored then or dark bay? Same issue with the colors in my brown tobiano mare......does the light colored muzzle come into play?

Summer.....








Winter.....


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Oldhorselady said:


> ....that's what throws me off......I get the body color....brown tobiano....but then there is black at the feet and in the mane and tail......that isn't tri-colored then or dark bay? Same issue with the colors in my brown tobiano mare......does the light colored muzzle come into play?
> 
> Summer.....
> 
> ...


Don't hold me to this as absolute fact, BUT...I believe it works exactly as it does in a solid brown or bay. The agouti factor is restricting the black into the legs and the points, mane, tail, etc. So the black, I don't believe, would be considered a tri-color in that it is just the agouti acting on the black base.

The winter fuzzy pic highlights perfectly the soft points that a brown has versus a bay in the elbow and flank are as well as the muzzle. The winter woolies help show a brown that is close to bay a lot easier than a summer slick pic. 

Does that help at all?


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

midnighttwilight said:


> I see people are wanting to know if Atreyu is sabino or tobaino well first pic is of his mom and another pic of him for reference. They are both pinto's (even though the guy bit my head off refering them as pintos LOL) because she is a 1/2 foxtrotter 1/2 percheron cross and Atreyu is 3/4 foxtrotter 1/4 percheron.


Haha. He shouldn't have, you are 100% correct that they are pintos as they are not Paint by breed.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Ladybug2001 said:


> Came across this horse on Craigslist, what color is he?
> 
> View attachment 105444


Sooty chestnut, I believe


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## commonfish (Jan 2, 2011)

Alright, I'll test your knowledge with my boy.  You've seen his confo page, so these are repeat pics for the most part, sorry! 
His socks throw me off... four socks all very similar (though the backs are higher). His front socks actually go a bit up the back side of his pasterns, though I don't actually have a good picture of that. I think of him as a darker chestnut, possibly bordering on liver- what do you think? 








He's wet in this one, don't use it to judge his color....








Really crappy photo, but pretty true to color in this one- and you can better see his front legs. 

Do you think he might have a super minimally expressed something going on, or just lucked out with even socks?


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

ThirteenAcres said:


> Sooty chestnut, I believe


What makes his mane that way?



Emilyy said:


> Wow! I love that horse's mane! Can you post a link to that ad?


Here you go, 
http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/grd/3081357914.html


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Sooty and flaxen are fighting in this mane. That is why it appears that way it does and his tail is so light.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Does that help at all?[/QUOTE]

Yes....thank you...Chiilaa tried to tell me already, but I am a pollock, literally.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

So, is it better then to judge true color by winter woolies?


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## enh817 (Jun 1, 2012)

lilkitty90 said:


> and Baby, i also want to put a disclaimed here.. i do NOT know her color, but your welcome to guess away, i will put wet and dry photos so you can see the pinto markings well.
> Dry
> 
> 
> ...



I'm thinking that this mare is some combination of pinto patterns (sabino, splash, frame...), and is going grey?


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## Emilyy (Apr 4, 2012)

Ladybug2001 said:


> What makes his mane that way?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OH!! He's in Tulsa, OK! Gahh...I don't need more horses...I don't need more horses.....


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Oldhorselady said:


> So, is it better then to judge true color by winter woolies?


In a lot of situations, yes. The winter coat shows a lot more that a glossy summer coat hides from us.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

enh817 said:


> I'm thinking that this mare is some combination of pinto patterns (sabino, splash, frame...), and is going grey?


Ooh, very pretty. Look at all those dapples!

I can tell she's some kind of appaloosa (the mottled skin is a dead giveaway!) but appy colors are too advanced for me to tell more than that


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

Verona i thought she was part appy before too, but she actually doesn't have mottled skin, any where and no hoof striping. so i ruled out appy skewing her colors


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## TexanFreedom (Apr 2, 2012)

verona1016 said:


> Ooh, very pretty. Look at all those dapples!
> 
> I can tell she's some kind of appaloosa (the mottled skin is a dead giveaway!) but appy colors are too advanced for me to tell more than that


That's due to her white markings, not appy.


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## enh817 (Jun 1, 2012)

lilkitty90 said:


> Verona i thought she was part appy before too, but she actually doesn't have mottled skin, any where and no hoof striping. so i ruled out appy skewing her colors


DO you know anything about her parents' colors?
How long have you had her? Are any of the pictures you posted from when you first got her? When were those first two pictures taken? How much longer before the rest? 
Do you have any recent photos?


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

Emilyy said:


> OH!! He's in Tulsa, OK! Gahh...I don't need more horses...I don't need more horses.....


xD Tulsa would definetely put my hopes down if I were to want another horse.


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

all i know is she is a mustang, her mom was wild caught, and sold while pregnant, the mom is an ordinary ole chesnut. maybe bay.. it's been 4 years since i've seen her mother and i can't remember. this is why baby has no brand though.

the very first picture was earlier during spring, probably around April.
the 2nd was around December, january ish.

and the date is on the rest. i haven't taken any photos of her getting a bath since those 2010. but i do have recent photos of her

i've owned baby since December 22nd 2008 i have pictures from back then, but i didn't post those.


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## enh817 (Jun 1, 2012)

lilkitty90 said:


> all i know is she is a mustang, her mom was wild caught, and sold while pregnant, the mom is an ordinary ole chesnut. maybe bay.. it's been 4 years since i've seen her mother and i can't remember. this is why baby has no brand though.
> 
> the very first picture was earlier during spring, probably around April.
> the 2nd was around December, january ish.
> ...



hmmm. TO ME, she looks like a chestnut (or bay) pinto [sabino, possibly splash and frame, hard to tell where her white patterns fall], that is greying. She'd have to have a grey parent though, but since there is no info on the sire, who knows. 

The reason why I'm interested in older/newer photos, is because if she is in fact greying, we would be able to see the process over time. With the pictures you have, the progression looks as if she's getting lighter, but if I understand you correctly, the first two photos are actually more recent than the ones from the bath in 2010. SO that's confusing me lol

I think it would be really helpful if you could post a picture from when you first got her and then a few, from throughout the years, concluding with a recent one. Preferably ones of her dry, yet not too dirty. Winter coat will be best to judge from. But it would be preferable, either way, if you could give us a sampling of photos taken around the same season, from different years. 
I think that would help us determine, if her coat is simply fluctuating with the seasons or if it is in fact changing over time 

I'm really interested in trying to figure out her coloring! She's very unique


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

my vet put buckskin on her coggins because the inside of her tail is DARK, he thinks she may have a modifier gene like maybe pearl? or something of the sort like that making her look so light. i'll go back through the years and see what i can find for photos.


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

ok this is from when i first brought her home
















summer 2009
















this was early spring in 2009








summer 2009
























winter 2009


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

spring/ summer 2010
































cant find any fall/winter 2010 pictures. 
but here are spring/summer 2011
























ignore the war paint lol this is fall/winter 2011
































spring/ summer 2012


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

I stick by the patterns I originally stated.

But I really think there's something interesting at play here in her color. I may be wrong, and would love the thoughts of one of the experts, BUT! She has that champagne hue to the mane and tail.

The more pictures I see, the more confused I am. I think I'm over my head on this one. She's so darn interesting!


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Or...possibly a sooty factor? I've heard that when a sooty gene comes into play it often battles and does WEIRD things with a cream base. So maybe a cream base with a very odd sooty thing going on?


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

im not sure, but she also has freckles on her skin, which make me think champagne as well, but don't most champagnes have pink skin with darker freckles? im not sure. i have pictures of the freckles on her chest area, they are on her actual skin and play no part in her coat color, and you can only see them when wet.

i wish i wasn't so tight for money or i would have her tested, :/ that way we can all just be amazed at how she may have an ordinary color, affected by some crazy thing,


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

i also want to put out there that maybe it is a silver? as she does have that dapples that are CRAZY in the early spring time


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

I'd put her up a new and separate thread or even PM one of the resident experts and get their direct opinion. 

I am almost tempted to offer to pay for a color test myself! Haha. She's so unique. But then you'd have to test the different things you suspect. So could get costly. I think normal plot tests are $25 per color. I'll sign on to my UC Davis account in a bit and double check for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

i've done a couple of color threads of her over the years, but not much was figured out. chiila helped me figure out what i should test for it and it was quite the list of things haha most people guessed she was a Buckskin with sabino and frame. MAYBE splash, and probably going grey, and i entertained the idea of grey as its very possible, i don't think i've seen any significant lightening in the 4 years that i've had her. yeah i think its 25$ per color gene, however i think they do a package deal.


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## enh817 (Jun 1, 2012)

gosh! I'm even more confused now lol

I feel pretty solid with my assessment, until I get to that batch of most recent pictures where she has an orange hue to her. 

If you ever do get her tested, you must post the results for us!


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

she's only orange like that in her spring coat. here is one from april 10th after she slicked off. and you see she isn't orange, but her white legs are dirty


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## midnighttwilight (Dec 14, 2011)

I have always thought of her as black but if I am wrong I would like to be corrected. Taken today and she is in part of the non-horsey yard which means it's where I keep the "better" grass. LOL


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

lilkitty90 said:


> Verona i thought she was part appy before too, but she actually doesn't have mottled skin, any where and no hoof striping. so i ruled out appy skewing her colors


I guess I should add... I'm not that great with pinto patterns either 

If you know what mustang herd her dam came from you can do some research to see if the pearl or champagne genes are known to be present in that herd. Pearl is pretty tricky, though, since only one copy of it has no effect, and it's so rare that it probably gets mistaken for something else quite often.

The champagne gene is a little more common, but should exhibit hazel eyes and freckled skin in most cases, even if it's combined with a cream gene.

Of course, if she is going grey then all bets are off. As seen in many other threads here, grey can do some pretty strange things to a horse's coat color between the original color and the final white!


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