# Do Passier saddles run wide or narrow?



## Tack Collector (Nov 10, 2009)

Passier_PSL_VD Photos by saddles4sale_2009 | Photobucket

^ I have a Passier VD AP. I don't know how old. I believe it's a M tree, perhaps a bit on the narrow side. I think the older ones were mostly meant for Thoroughbred types. There's a front shot in that photo album.

The PS Baum tree, if I recall, is bamboo and is quite adjustable. So if you are looking at old Passiers, make sure you at least see a picture that shows that tree width. Sue Schuerer in central PA was a saddle on UltimateDressage board, and she was the Passier tree expert. But she has gotten out of the business.


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## frlsgirl (Aug 6, 2013)

I just tried out a BS Baum and hated it. It was huge for a 17 and no matter how I adjusted my stirrups I kept hitting the front of the saddle in the rising trot. My horse didn't like it either. I think the saddle works better for taller riders and larger horses.


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## petitepyromaniac (Oct 12, 2010)

frlsgirl said:


> I just tried out a BS Baum and hated it. It was huge for a 17 and no matter how I adjusted my stirrups I kept hitting the front of the saddle in the rising trot. My horse didn't like it either. I think the saddle works better for taller riders and larger horses.


Yeah, the seat size does run big! I'm just not sure about the tree.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lindak (Feb 11, 2007)

*Do Passier Saddles run wide or narrow?*

I have 3 older Passier dressage saddles and I believe they are all around 27 or so cm as Passier measures their trees. They all fit a little differently because of the flocking. Thankfully these saddles are wool flocked so they can be adjusted somewhat by a fitter with a flock adjustment or reflock. They tend to be a better Thoroughbred type fit although I did use the third one on a Quarter Horse. I have included a pic to illustrate...


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## Tack Collector (Nov 10, 2009)

frlsgirl said:


> I just tried out a BS Baum and hated it. It was huge for a 17 and no matter how I adjusted my stirrups I kept hitting the front of the saddle in the rising trot. My horse didn't like it either. I think the saddle works better for taller riders and larger horses.


iirc, there are no actual half sizes in the trees/seats. The saddler just moves the nail in the front, so 17" & 17.5" are the same size seat? I can't remember. But it's something to watch for if buying long distance. Measure from the cutback straight back to the cantle of one that fits you, and that gets around the issue of where the nail is.


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## freia (Nov 3, 2011)

Passier seat sizes are generous for two reasons:
-1- the seat shape is pretty flat, so you aren't squished in.
-2- the old Passier all were actually 1/4" bigger than their spec size. The 17" is actually a 17.25", the 17.5" is actually a 17.75", etc. 

I've owned 6 of the PS-Baum Passiers made from the mid-70's through mid-80's, and they all were that way. I use a 17.5" saddlle usually. I use a 17" in the Passier.

Tree size is quite generous. I've had mostly medium trees of 27.5 cm (that's what most of them are), but I've also had an extra wide of 29 cm, and almost bought an xx-wide at 29.5 cm. Their M/W is 28 cm, and the Wide is 28.5 cm. This is the distance between the very ends of the tree points. The numbers run smaller than other German saddles, because Passiers tree points are shorter than other brands, so a comparably wide tree will measure smaller on a Passier than on a Stubben, because the tree points are closer together when the points are shorter. 

The 27.5 cm medium tree measures right at 90 degrees angle between points. The shape of the gullet plate is pretty wide and open, so there's quite a bit of wither clearance. Pommel is cutback, and I've never had anyone's withers come close to the pommel.

A word on the short tree points. The short length makes the tree size pretty forgiving. If you put a medium on a horse that's a little wider than medium, it still fits fine, since the points aren't long enough to dig into the muscle behind the shoulder. I've successfully used my mediums on horses that were medium through medium-wide. I have also been able to use them on some wider horses with a riser pad in the back. One is very picky about saddle comfort, and no complaints from him. I wouldn't use it on a wide horse long-term. The mediums are far too roomy for horses that are narrower than medium. My xtra wide has fit well on wide and xtra-wide horses.

The tree is curvier rather than flat. It has quite a bit of rocker. Not good on horses with really straight backs.

Wonderful saddles that put you in a great position and give you great contact with the horse. 

Be aware that the gullet plate is adjustable, but it can be hard to find someone to do it, and it costs $300 to do it.


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## frlsgirl (Aug 6, 2013)

freia said:


> Passier seat sizes are generous for two reasons:
> -1- the seat shape is pretty flat, so you aren's squished in.
> -2- the old Passier all were actually 1/4" bigger than their spec size. The 17" is actually a 17.25", the 17.5" is actually a 17.75", etc.
> 
> ...


Will you come saddle shopping with me?


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## freia (Nov 3, 2011)

frlsgirl said:


> Will you come saddle shopping with me?


I love saddle-shopping, for some weird reason. Let's shop! :lol:


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## freia (Nov 3, 2011)

Also be aware that a very few of those older Passier had foam panels, not wool. Keep a very close eye out for that. That old foam is typically rock-hard, is very expensive to replace, and can't be adjusted. Sellers don't always know what they have, and will say it's wool when it's not.

You can tell from pictures of the underside: the foam ones have "raised" panels, the wool are stitched down to the flap. The foam ones have 3 or 4 white "dots" on the panels at the very front of the saddle, the wool ones have only stitches at the front.

You can also tell from a picture of the billet area. The wool flocked ones will have a nice, sturdy pocket sewn onto the topside of the sweatflap that the tree point sits in. The foam ones have the tree points attached to the foam panel underneath the sweat flap.


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