# What do You See?



## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

Rodeo Time is 5.5year old PaintxTB gelding. Ive had him since he was 10months old, so Ive seen all of his growth spurts, and all the funky stages hes gone through, but recently in the past few months, hes been going through a stage I dont understand, he used to be a muscled up stocky fellow, but now he seems to be long, thin, and lanky, IMO. So my question is, what do you see? Is he just undermuscled, or is he just growing long and lankier? Thanks for all and any opinions!

1229151525a by Cassandra Simkunas, on Flickr
1229151525b by Cassandra Simkunas, on Flickr
1229151526b by Cassandra Simkunas, on Flickr


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## Dehda01 (Jul 25, 2013)

He looks like he needs more calories... It may be secondary to a growth spurt. But either way.... To make muscle he needs protein and fat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

he looks underweight. He needs more hay/forage. Growing horses need to have the feed increased as they go through growth spurts. You do not want him fat, but he is to thin. 
Do not use grain to fatten him , you can mess with his bone development. 
some good grass hay and some alfalfa hay will do wonders.


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

Thanks for the comments! I had an idea it was a weight thing. I dont have the resources at the moment for him to have 24/7 grass/hay available. He eats 5 healthy flakes of Coastal Hay/day, and close to 4lbs of Perfomance grain/day. Id just like to get his weight and muscles back up to where they need to be.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

has he been wormed? also he could have some dental issues , sometimes the caps don't fall off like they should and cause problems with a tooth.


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

stevenson said:


> has he been wormed? also he could have some dental issues , sometimes the caps don't fall off like they should and cause problems with a tooth.


He has been wormed. I was thinking teeth could have an issue with it as well. Vet appt scheduled Thursday Jan 7th. Hoping that will disclose an issue so we can catch things up again. Teeth is honestly the only thing I can think of as a problem....so we'll see


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

If he's not getting free choice hay or pasture then 4 pounds of feed a day isn't much.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Hey, I haven't seen Rodeo in forever! 

I agree that he looks slightly underweight. Getting his teeth checked is a good idea. 

Do you remember my guy Zane? He's the same age as Rodeo. I had his teeth done for the first time last year because he was having bitting issues. The vet said his teeth had sharper points on them than his 20 year old dam! 

So I got his teeth done and I feel a lot better about it, although it really didn't affect his bitting issues directly.

Anyway, how about adding some alfalfa pellets? They are a good source of calories and protein. 

How tall did Rodeo turn out? Zane is a 16 hand tall monster! He almost makes his mom look like a pony when he stands next to her. :biglaugh: That's him in my avatar.


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## Dehda01 (Jul 25, 2013)

I would guess bare minimum on the bag of grain would be 6lbs of grain a day... What brand of grain so we can look it up? 5 flakes of hay a day depending on the size of the flakes may be very light too. Can you weight his flakes?


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

trailhorserider said:


> Hey, I haven't seen Rodeo in forever!
> 
> I agree that he looks slightly underweight. Getting his teeth checked is a good idea.
> 
> ...


Wow! Zane has grown HUGE!! He looks great! Rodeo is only about 15hh, but thats okay, wasnt expecting him to be a whole lot bigger, so Im happy with his height. Rodeo had his teeth done when he was 2, got his wolf teeth removed, and then again at the beginning of last year, so its time for his teeth to be done again, but to be honest, Im not sure the vet did them last year....as I had a freind out shortly after that said his teeth didnt even look like they were touched, let alone done, so we'll see what the vet says on Thursday. Adding alfalfa pellets might be a good idea, Ill have to stop at TSC and see about picking some up. 



Dehda01 said:


> I would guess bare minimum on the bag of grain would be 6lbs of grain a day... What brand of grain so we can look it up? 5 flakes of hay a day depending on the size of the flakes may be very light too. Can you weight his flakes?


Omolene 200 Performance horse feed l Purina Mills
^Thats what Im feeding, Purina Omolene 200. Ill bump his feed up to 6lbs a day over the next few days and see if it makes a change, I really have a feeling that his teeth are worse than I think, so we will see what the vet says about them on Thursday as well. I have a scale, my husband does a lot of shipping of sports cards, and has to weigh them out, so Ill see if I can weigh the flakes here shortly. Thanks for all the comments and tips!


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## Dehda01 (Jul 25, 2013)

The feeding directions for a horse in light work for that food is between 5.25- 6.25. And moderate work is 7.25 to 8.50 a day. Because he is underweight I would go on the higher side until he was looking good. I would feed 4lbs him twice a day. And try to up his hat as much as possible. 

That said, I don't particularly like sweet feeds and while I think the protein is fine with the omolene 200, the fat level is too low. I prefer a high quality high fat, mid protein grain. 8 or 10% fat makes me happiest with 12% protein for my adult basically grown horses. 

Strategy isn't terrible, but I often felt I needed to fat supplement my show horse's coats on it to really keep a bloom on them. 

Ultium is my go-to grain for my really hard keeper, but my gut feeling is that this horse isn't a real hard keeper, he just needed more than what he was getting currently.
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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Even just adding some rice bran into his grain at this stage would make a huge difference to him I think. It's cheap, will put on weight really fast with it and it'll make his coat shine.

I remember Rodeo as a baby - Crazy to think that he's all grown up now.


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

Dehda01 said:


> The feeding directions for a horse in light work for that food is between 5.25- 6.25. And moderate work is 7.25 to 8.50 a day. Because he is underweight I would go on the higher side until he was looking good. I would feed 4lbs him twice a day. And try to up his hat as much as possible.
> 
> That said, I don't particularly like sweet feeds and while I think the protein is fine with the omolene 200, the fat level is too low. I prefer a high quality high fat, mid protein grain. Ultium is a good grain for my really hard keeper, but my gut feeling is that this horse isn't a real hard keeper, he just needed more than what he was getting currently.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks for taking a look at that! I was looking as well, and see Im clearly underfeeding him. Kinda bummed really. Hes not a hard keeper, what so ever, and thats why this whole thing has kinda thrown me for a loop, and frustrated me like crazy!! Should I try the Ultium until I get his weight where it needs to be, or just keep him on the Omolene 200? Thanks again!


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

SorrelHorse said:


> Even just adding some rice bran into his grain at this stage would make a huge difference to him I think. It's cheap, will put on weight really fast with it and it'll make his coat shine.
> 
> I remember Rodeo as a baby - Crazy to think that he's all grown up now.


Thank you! At this point Im willing to try anything, just need and want to get him where he needs to be. I thought he was just losing muscle, because its obvious along his topline and his back end/hip area. The thing that gets me is that his rubs arent showing what so ever!! Isnt it crazy though!? Hes all grown up on me


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

csimkunas6 said:


> Thank you! At this point Im willing to try anything, just need and want to get him where he needs to be. I thought he was just losing muscle, because its obvious along his topline and his back end/hip area. The thing that gets me is that his rubs arent showing what so ever!! Isnt it crazy though!? Hes all grown up on me



I feed both Ultium and Omolene, have had good success with both. Since you already have the Omolene you could always just up that and add in the rice bran until it's a good mix - It's a cheap way to throw on the weight.

I found that the Ultium works better (For me, at least) on the horses in heavy work. If they aren't being worked heavily or don't need the extra performance I just keep them on the Omolene.


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

SorrelHorse said:


> I feed both Ultium and Omolene, have had good success with both. Since you already have the Omolene you could always just up that and add in the rice bran until it's a good mix - It's a cheap way to throw on the weight.
> 
> I found that the Ultium works better (For me, at least) on the horses in heavy work. If they aren't being worked heavily or don't need the extra performance I just keep them on the Omolene.


Thanks SorrelHorse!! Really appreciate your opinion on the feed! Hes def not in heavy work, not even moderate right now. Ill just try upping the Omolene, get his teeth floated, and go from there. Thanks again!


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## Dehda01 (Jul 25, 2013)

Ultium will work better. It is more nutrient dense, and not as molasses based so less likely to make a horse fizzy as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

Dehda01 said:


> Ultium will work better. It is more nutrient dense, and not as molasses based so less likely to make a horse fizzy as well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Now do you suggest the Ultium Growth, or the Competition feed to get him back up to weight? 

The thing is, we're moving to Montana within the next 6months, and once were there, he'll be on grass 24/7, I just need him to look like this again....so whatever I need to do to get him to a healthy weight, and muscle gain again, Ill be happy


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## Dehda01 (Jul 25, 2013)

I would use ultium competition. Once he is on grass he will be on very different nutrient needs and I would guess you may need to switch to a ration balancer. But right now, based on your current feeding needs that is not what you need.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

Dehda01 said:


> I would use ultium competition. Once he is on grass he will be on very different nutrient needs and I would guess you may need to switch to a ration balancer. But right now, based on your current feeding needs that is not what you need.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Awesome! Thanks again for all your help! Since I had just bought a bag of Omolene 200, Ill just up it for the time being, and wait to get the Ultium until theres not quite as much left. I also took TrailHorseRider's advice, and got him some Alfalfa cubes as well. So now he is eating 8lbs of Omolene 200, we got it all weighed out, 2lbs of Alfalfa Cubes, and we also weighed all his hay, each flake weighs anywhere between 3.5lbs-4lbs, he gets 5-6 flakes a day, and from my understanding, a 1000lb horse is supposed to get 20lbs of forage a day, so I think hes getting enough hay, now the question is, is it good enough quality?! I dont believe it is, luckily, I know someone that has a different type of hay, it is Orchard Grass, what Im feeding now is Coastal from a local feed store, so Ill just drive a bit further and get some Orchard Grass, he did pretty well on it before, it was just that its an hour away, but luckily I have a trailer now so I can really stock up. Thanks again for all the help! I really appreciate it! I feel so silly, and kinda heartbroken that I wasnt feeding him enough, but we are on the right track again! Look for photos of improvement soon!


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

A week update....Rodeo is on 8lbs of Omolene 200/day, havent made the switch to the Omolene quite yet, he is getting 2.5lbs of Alfalfa cubes a day, and hay available for majority of the day from 8am-10pm. I also went ahead and dewormed him again, just to be safe. Vet appt tomorrow to get his teeth done. I think I see improvement, but maybe its just me? A week isnt a whole lot of time so

12494085_975465462526152_795018540_o by Cassandra Simkunas, on Flickr
12510614_975465475859484_1830984136_o by Cassandra Simkunas, on Flickr


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

I just love Rodeo! 
I don't see much difference yet. He needs hay and lots of it, all horses do. Not only just for weight but for his intestinal/mental wellbeing. A horse his size he needs an average of 20lbs. Per day. If they need to gain weight or if it isn't the best quality, more. A simple protein/mineral supplement mixed with a pound or two of senior feed wouldn't hurt. Save your money for the hay.
That'll perk him up 


Excited about your move! That's gonna be awesome!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

FlyGap said:


> I just love Rodeo!
> I don't see much difference yet. He needs hay and lots of it, all horses do. Not only just for weight but for his intestinal/mental wellbeing. A horse his size he needs an average of 20lbs. Per day. If they need to gain weight or if it isn't the best quality, more. A simple protein/mineral supplement mixed with a pound or two of senior feed wouldn't hurt. Save your money for the hay.
> That'll perk him up
> 
> ...


Thank you! I figured it was probably just me but was hoping for the best. But it has only been a week, so I didnt figure it would be a whole lot of change in that short amount of time. But yes! Very excited for the move! Its gonna be a big one though, basically moving from NC to MT, a little over 2100miles one way! But itll be better for everyone including Rodeo, so looking forward to it!


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

*Update: 2 Weeks Later*

So its been 2 weeks since the first photos were taken, and a little under 2 weeks since Ive changed Rodeo's food amount. Hes now getting 9lbs of grain a day, 3lbs of Alfalfa cubes a day, and about 20-25lbs of hay a day. 

Here are the photos from today, sorry theyre so little. The shaved spot on his left hip is from his recent freeze branding, just done this past Satuday. I did take him to the vet this past Thursday, before they started on his teeth, an emergency call came in, postponing his teeth floating, so that still needs done. Anyways, just wanted to post updated photos. Not a whole lot of change quite yet, but his energy level has increased, and hes looking better to me seeing him everyday 

rodeo by Cassandra Simkunas, on Flickr
Sorry about the sun in this one...
rodeo2 by Cassandra Simkunas, on Flickr


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

*3 week Update*

Here are recent photos of Rodeo. Basically 3weeks into him getting the amount of food he is supposed to be getting.....what do you think? I know its probably kinda hard to tell with how fuzzy he is, but I think hes starting to fill back out again! 

DSC05759 by Cassandra Simkunas, on Flickr
DSC05763 by Cassandra Simkunas, on Flickr


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Definitely starting to see an improved difference. Good on you for seeing a problem, asking for advice, and then taking it.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

he is looking better. good work.


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

JCnGrace said:


> Definitely starting to see an improved difference. Good on you for seeing a problem, asking for advice, and then taking it.





stevenson said:


> he is looking better. good work.


Thank you both very much! Honestly I feel kinda dumb for having it even happen, for Rodeo, but am overjoyed that I asked and got advice! Whats bad is I actually asked my farrier, and he thought he looked fine, but I knew something wasnt right, dont get me wrong, I thought it was lack of muscle, which is obviously is, but like everything, you need calories to build muscle. 

So glad to hear that were on the right track! Everytime I look out the window and see Rodeo as the weeks go by Im getting happier an happier seeing the improvement myself!


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

Here is a side by side of Rodeo from the first photo, and just shy of a month later....
photojoiner by Cassandra Simkunas, on Flickr


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