# Pigeon Toed - how bad is it really?



## Sheltie

Bare with me guys - this isn't a conformation critique, more a conformation question!

- Unfortunately I don't have pics on me right this moment, but I'm able to get some tomorrow.

How bad - really - is it if a horse is pigeon toed? I haven't had any experience with pigeon toed horses, but my new one has got turned in front feet. Now, I'm thinking with the help of my fabulous farrier, we'll be able to help it tremendously, but it is a conformation fault - not a hoof issue - so I know he'll always have it.

Does it affect their ability to be competitive mounts? I'm speaking eventing and such.

Thanks guys!


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## Avna

Pigeon toed is better than the other way around (toeing out), which is a definite weakness. It depends on how bad it is and how he actually moves as opposed to stands.


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## Sheltie

He moves quite nicely - he just looks a touch awkward when he stands!


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## cbar

I agree with Avna. Toeing in is better than turning out. My older gelding toes-in slightly...in harness racing this was actually desirable as he wouldn't 'knock' his legs or interfere with himself.


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## Smilie

Agree with above, as a horse that is pigeon toed, he will paddle, versus winging in, like a horse that is toed out, and can thus risk interfering
At the same time, any limb deviation, is going to put un even stress on that leg, and will result in more wear and tear, esp as demands of higher athletic activity is done
I am surprised that toeing in is actually desired, to prevent interference, as correct conformation alone should preclude that, and any limb deviation is going to affect the wear on that limb. Racing, though, is not for longevity of soundness, so am not surprised that a little bit of \extra' insurance is sought, thus a horse that paddles, where of course, interference is even less likely then with correct conformation, but that does not make limb deviation of any kind, desireable


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## Smilie

While pigeon toed is the lesser of the two evils, when comparing to toed out, just due to the flight mechanics of each deviation, it still has costs in the long run , and should never be selected for, JMO

From the horse com
Toed-In (Pigeon Toed)

This flaw is recognized when viewing the horse from the front. One or both hooves will point inward. The deviation can begin at the shoulder or hip, or as low as the fetlock. This conformational abnormality--like many of the others--is congenital in nature, which means it is present at birth. This problem usually can be completely corrected with corrective trimming and shoeing, but the correction must start at an early age to be successful (by one to two months of age).

This problem is frequently seen with angular limb deformities, so correction of the angular limb deformity with surgery often is necessary. Toed-in conformation leads to aberrations of the leg during flight; the leg will travel in an outward arc (paddling) during movement. The toed-in conformation leads to excessive strain on the outside or lateral aspect of the hoof and fetlock, as the horse usually lands on the outside wall of the hoof.


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## DanisMom

ponypride said:


> Now, I'm thinking with the help of my fabulous farrier, we'll be able to help it tremendously, but it is a conformation fault - not a hoof issue - so I know he'll always have it.


If a farrier trims a horse so as to straighten leg conformation it will only stress the joints and muscles as the horse has to change his entire was of moving. Try adding lifts to one side of your shoe and see how it feels to walk around that way for a day or two. It's better to just trim normally and allow the horse to use himself normally. Conformation cannot be changed.


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## Smilie

Yes, corrective trimming done after the growth plates are closed, is harmful.
It is a conformation defect, puts extra strain on joints, but the abnormal gait produced, is a paddle, thus no risk of interference
Many horses with moderate work, do fine,, with this defect, but any deviation from normal correct aleignment of leg bones, with more athletic demands, are going to have those joints break down sooner, then in a horse without a conformation defect
That is just the law of physics


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## beau159

Sheltie said:


> Now, I'm thinking with the help of my fabulous farrier, we'll be able to help it tremendously, but it is a conformation fault - not a hoof issue - so I know he'll always have it.


This is absolutely true. You cannot "trim away" anything that is a conformational fault, and don't let any farrier tell you they can!

Now one thing you can do to help the horse, if the situation calls for it, is shoeing. My horse Red is pigeon-toed, a little worse on his left foot. (He's also got heel pain, although that has nothing to do with the pigeon-toed-ness.) Based on his x-rays, my farrier always slightly off-sets his left front shoe a smidge to the outside on purpose, to help redistribute the weight more evenly. It doesn't change the fact that he is pigeon-toed but it helps him to land/load more evenly on that foot. 




Sheltie said:


> Does it affect their ability to be competitive mounts? I'm speaking eventing and such.


Most of the time, no. 

There's an old wives tale in the barrel racing world that says pigeon-toed horses are always FAST. ;-)


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## Smilie

Beau:
'There's an old wives tale in the barrel racing world that says pigeon-toed horses are always FAST. '
Lol, similar to reiners preferring sickle hocked horses, because their hind legs are already under them
Wrong in both cases, as structural deviations cause extra stress,on specific areas/joints,depending on what deviation


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