# Quarter horse "Ima speedy patriot"



## Quarterhorse88 (Dec 6, 2013)

What do you guys think? He was really ribby and I got a little weight on but its only been 2.5 weeks. He just had a bath and was half dry when I took the pic because the sun was going down.


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

Hard to tell since he needs a lot of weight, and I'm not very good at confo anyway, so I'm just gonna say he looks fine boned, which won't change with weight. His neck may be a little long also, but take it with a grain of salt as I'm learning.


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## Quarterhorse88 (Dec 6, 2013)

Thank you  I see where he looks a little long necked. I think once he gains more weight and I start exercising him more it will look better. Hopefully.


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## ForeverSunRider (Jun 27, 2013)

I agree that his neck looks really long but once he gains weight it should help - our rescue was like that too but he has about 40 lbs on him now and it looks better - still needs work.

Anyway, his front that I circled looks long and his back that I circled looks really upright but it might just be how he was deciding to stand. I too am just learning as well so feel free to ignore me. 

He's really cute though and I'd guess he's going to be very handsome with weight on.


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## elbandita (Sep 13, 2013)

He appears well balanced. Body in proportion. Emaciated.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

the first thing, other than his obvious weight, is that he is markedly back at the knee. he has an overly straight, narrow neck , set on low. gaskins are very light. has what might be a slight roach, though hard to say since he is still very underweight. the back at the knee, though, is marked.


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## Quarterhorse88 (Dec 6, 2013)

tinyliny said:


> the first thing, other than his obvious weight, is that he is markedly back at the knee. he has an overly straight, narrow neck , set on low. gaskins are very light. has what might be a slight roach, though hard to say since he is still very underweight. the back at the knee, though, is marked.


What does marked at the back of the knee mean?


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## CandyCanes (Jul 1, 2013)

It is a fault that, in his severity, puts a huge amount of strain on his tendons, 
http://mmdt1021a.ridgewater.net/samples/sp02site7/foreleg.jpg

The last one 'calf kneed' is also called back at the knee.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Quarter horses were also bred with the long low neck for western pleasure. I think that once he's had a good farrier for a while and puts on weight he'll be a fine looking horse when he's finished filling out at around 5.


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## Ace80908 (Apr 21, 2011)

This is the stud you have in your other post, correct? Are you planning to geld him soon? How old is he?


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## Quarterhorse88 (Dec 6, 2013)

He is 10 years old and I'm not planning on gelding him until I can see what kind of potential he has once he's filled out and on an exercise regimen for breeding. Plus you wouldn't know he was a stallion until you looked between his legs. He has impressive racing and halter bloodlines. If not then it's no big deal either way. He'll just have to enjoy the pasture and trails without any manhood in the way.


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

He's probably gonna act more like a stallion once he's up to a good weight. IMO (and I'm sure others would agree...) geld him and enjoy him


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Saddlebag said:


> Quarter horses were also bred with the long low neck for western pleasure. I think that once he's had a good farrier for a while and puts on weight he'll be a fine looking horse when he's finished filling out at around 5.


Depends on the breeding. WP horses are bred to have that long, low set neck, other lines aren't.

He's not a bad looking horse, OP, but he's not stud quality. With those front legs (which _are_ genetic by the way), he should not reproduce. Please have him gelded.

Being back at the knee like that predisposes him to tendon and soft tissue injury in those legs along with early onset arthritis. Imagine the wear and tear on your knees if you jogged and landed each time with your knees locked/hyperextended. It's very rough on them and isn't conducive to soundness at all.

That is the biggest fault that isn't going to change. Some of the other things I see about him might look different once he has some weight and muscle, but those legs are what they are and they aren't good.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Pedigree is not that hot:
Ima Speedy Patriot Quarter Horse

Back at the knee says geld him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

So I'm going to say something and please so not take this as an attack. I don't mean it that way. I hope that you consider what I'm saying which comes from experience. What they are saying above is if you breed him you are knowingly producing horses who later in life will have heritable health problems. The point of breeding horses is to take proven horses with great sound conformation to pass on to the next generation. Just because a horse is registered and has intack testicles does not mean you start breeding him. Has this horse proven himself in any kind of event like in rodeo or showing? Also when people are buying registered horses they are looking at the first 3 generations on those papers there's nothing really that special there. Meaning the foal will not have much value especially in this market and trained eyes will catch those knee and tendon problems in the foal.

Important things to think about when owning a stud:
Have you ever owned a stud horse? Do you have a strong separate pen he can't jump or break? When this horse is feeling better first thing on his mind is I'm gonna get to where I can breed mares. And what kind of training does this horse have? I ask this because any glaring faults can become dangerous faults that can injure your person. I have came in contact with several studs over the years I can honestly say the only ones I ever felt semi safe around ones that were worked with daily and extemely well trained. They also have dominant no nonsense owners. Do you know how to be a herd leader? Do you know or have access to a trainer who can work with him regularly if you are not a trainer yourself? Somebody must a dominant leader if your going to control a stud horse. And then do you have the commitment to working regularly to establish that. I keep my colts studs till they are around 2 they don't act outrageous ever but that's because I've instilled manners from the get go and they get messed with regularly the fact that I'm the accepted herd leader they know no different because I've never gave them a chance too. I've owned one 3 almost 4 year old TB stud that came of the track he was a beautiful horse pretty well bred and well mannered I worked with him daily and broke him to ride and he even took him to rodeos you'd never known he was a stud. But come fall I gelded him immediately cause who knows that could always change. It's flat out dangerous to own a stud and that's even in experienced hands. I'll quote my veterinarian who says if you are going to own a stud it's like owning a dangerous unpredictable animal. Why don't you go buy yourself a tiger while your at it. ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Here's an article about dangerous race horse studs. Chunks out of their arms fingers lost chunks taken out of other horses and so on. I got that article in the stallions and brood mares sub thread. Go talk to real stallion owners about what it takes to own a stud and start a breeding program in that sub thread..
Behind the Bit: Meanest thoroughbred stallions ever...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Quarterhorse88 (Dec 6, 2013)

I'm am not saying I know everything about horses but I've been around them for my whole life and have broke many of them on the family horse farm that was built by my great granddaddy. I was the lightest and not afraid  I also did not say I was going to breed him excessively or that breeding him is the reason I got him. I got him because he was an awesome laid back WELL BROKE quarter horse with a puppy dog personality. If later on I decide I do want to breed him I will only with my sisters black aqha with dash for cash lines and I would be keeping the foal for myself to break and ride. Thanks for all the comments but I do not care about crazy thoroughbred stallions biting people's fingers off and do forth. I just want to ride my sweet STALLION through the woods and back again.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

We're just saying he's sweet now... We'll just see about later when he feels good again. It's your choice to keep his man parts of course. All I can say is be careful. I was trying to say with the article is stallions are dangerous and unpredictable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ace80908 (Apr 21, 2011)

His puppy dog personality may change drastically when he is not focused on the fact he is starving. I saw what he looked like when you got him, and you have done a great job getting weight back on - but, simple fact is, you will have a healthy and fit stud on your hands whose focus will change from eating to breeding. And, at best, you are going to get a mediocre foal. Good luck.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

_"....... I've been around them for my whole life and have broke many of them on the family horse farm that was built by my great granddaddy."_ Then why ask the Forum?

_"He has impressive racing and halter bloodlines." _I'm not QH guru, but isn't that the stud that started all the HYPP issues? Has he been tested?


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## Quarterhorse88 (Dec 6, 2013)

sarahfromsc said:


> _"....... I've been around them for my whole life and have broke many of them on the family horse farm that was built by my great granddaddy."_ Then why ask the Forum?
> 
> _"He has impressive racing and halter bloodlines." _I'm not QH guru, but isn't that the stud that started all the HYPP issues? Has he been tested?


Listen I came here because I just basically rescued 3 horses. They were starving and in bad need of a ferrier and my husband doesn't really care about horses so I have no one to talk to anymore about them. My granddaddys passed and all the horses were sold off 5 years ago. I wasn't asking if anybody thought he would be a nice horse. Like I said no I'm not planning on breeding him anytime soon or at all really. Just an option I w


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## Quarterhorse88 (Dec 6, 2013)

*would have. If he gets crazy I will geld him immediately. That's IF. I understand all the concern you would have. We do not need anymore mediocre horses when there are thousands of them in need of rescue. Which is exactly what I did.


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## Quarterhorse88 (Dec 6, 2013)

I meant I WAS asking if anyone thought he was nice. Sorry


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## Ace80908 (Apr 21, 2011)

The problem is you rescued a mediocre horse whose previous owner didn't care enough to geld. He's a cute horse, will make you a great gelding. You know he has conformation issues that are hereditary, has no show record, and a ho-hum pedigree. Why, having said what you just did, would you want to risk your sister's mare's life to produce another mediocre baby? It makes no sense. Breeding should be a superior stallion to a superior mare. ONLY.

We may seem harsh, but we have all seen the results of backyard breedings done with no thought to the future of the horse beyond the well-meaning intentions of the owner at the time... you have three of the results in your care right now. This stud should be gelded.


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## Quarterhorse88 (Dec 6, 2013)

I think when he fills out more and gets muscle tone back he will be much nicer. He is not from the qh "impressive" I just meant he had impressive bloodlines including skips print and the redeemer. To each their own and if I would like a foal and he turns out nice then like I said I will breed. I will get more pictures tomorrow since he's looking better. It's been a month Tuesday and have a lot more to go until he's in the shape I want him.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

It is also the Impressive bloodlines that are worrisome.


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## Ace80908 (Apr 21, 2011)

All the fitting in the world isn't going to fix a roach back and bad legs. But whatever, you want to breed - your horse, your rules - just don't think posting more pictures will change the responses to what you want to hear.


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

Quarterhorse88 said:


> *would have. If he gets crazy I will geld him immediately. That's IF. I understand all the concern you would have. *We do not need anymore mediocre horses when there are thousands of them in need of rescue.* Which is exactly what I did.


You say this, but yet you want to breed a mediocre horse that will pass on undesirable traits that will affect soundness. All the weight in the world will not fix what makes him gelding only material.


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## Quarterhorse88 (Dec 6, 2013)

He doesn't have "impressive" bloodlines I just stated he had impressive/decent bloodlines like skips print, the redeemer, and joe Hancock. When he fill out I will go from there in deciding if weather or not I want his foal years down the road. If he's still "eh" then I will geld him. If he starts biting fingers off and breaking bones I will geld him. I posted to get confirmation critiques not get personally critiqued because I own a stallion. What are his flaws not what do you think of his gonads. So far I got back at the knee, roach back which will not be once he gets weight, and long neck but once again with weight he will look better. I will post new pics tomorrow


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## Quarterhorse88 (Dec 6, 2013)

SullysRider said:


> You say this, but yet you want to breed a mediocre horse that will pass on undesirable traits that will affect soundness. All the weight in the world will not fix what makes him gelding only material.


I meant if he turns out mediocre once weight is on him I will geld him. Of course now he is only so so but once weight is on we'll see and go from there.


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## Quarterhorse88 (Dec 6, 2013)

Will someone please show me where he looks so bad to have so many comments about gelding him? I am not a back yard breeder and all horses were started out in a back yard technically. I just wanted to know his faults and what others thought of this sweet boy.


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

Everyone has commented what makes him a candidate for gelding. The biggest thing for me is his knees because it will be hard for him to stay sound in decent work and he will pass that on to foals. That alone makes him not stallion worthy, because that affects soundness. And so does him having upright pasterns. We are not trying to bash you, but you seem to try and overlook the fact that his legs aren't breeding worthy and that he will most likely not stay sound at work levels above trail riding. You just keep saying that you think he will look nice with more weight, but weight will not change his legs. And that is why so many are saying geld him. Knowingly breeding him would make you a backyard breeder because you are knowingly breeding a stallion who should not even be a stallion. Responsible breeding is about breeding the best to best, and doing it with the proper vet work, etc. You seem to be excited about having a stallion, but realistically having a stallion is not a good option. Even big well known stables with the proper stalling, pastures, etc have incidents happen with stallions where someone gets hurt or something happens. Those are the people that are prepared the most for a stallion and things still happen. If you like him so much, I don't see why him being a gelding would change that. Horses are already a risk, but a stallion is a loaded gun with the safety off.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Sweetie, you're not listening. The biggest part of what makes him mediocre are those _very_ bad front legs. Those will not change regardless of how much weight you put on him.

If you are bound and determined to breed him, then there is nothing we can do to stop you, but don't go around talking about how many horses are out there needing rescued...then turn right around and talk about creating _more_ mediocre quality, backyard horses.

If you are looking for why I don't like him as a stud prospect, I'll tell you. 

In addition to those horrid calf knees, he's got a slight ewe neck, his back is long, his coupling is weak, his shoulder is upright. He's straight through the stifle and that makes the angles of his entire hind end weak. He is very light in bone and _drastically_ tied in on his front legs. He might also have a roached back...or that could just be how it looks due to him being so underweight still. I'll hold judgment on that particular part until he's put some weight on. Regardless, even if it isn't truly roached, all those other things are good reasons to geld.

No matter how much weight or condition you put on him, the underlying structure isn't going to change and a mediocre horse is still a mediocre horse.


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## Rideordie112 (Dec 7, 2013)

_"He has impressive racing and halter bloodlines." _I'm not QH guru, but isn't that the stud that started all the HYPP issues? Has he been tested?[/QUOTE]

Yes. Yes it is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ace80908 (Apr 21, 2011)

If you had a nice stallion we would tell you so. Not all breeding is bad and the forum supports responsible breeding - here is an example of what I consider good breeding material, and why;

This is my mare, Daisy. Registered name, Sayitwithflowers. Her sire is Just Say Jose, World Champion producer and earner of 241 APHA points including a Superior in Western Pleasure. Her dam has produced multiple point earners including a PtHA World Champion (Daisy's full brother). Because her mom is Impressive bred, Daisy was tested for HYPP before I even considered breeding her. She of course is N/N. So she's got the bloodline. 

BUT! - She also had to prove herself. So I put her in the ring. She earned over 40 APHA points this year, including Grand Champion and Reserve GC in Open and Amt Halter, Overo color, Western Pleasure, Hunter Under Saddle, Horsemanship and Hunt Seat Equitation, Junior Trail, Open Trail and Novice Ammy Trail - even picked up some Amt Barrel Racing points. She's correct, smart, and a very sweet mare. We finished the year High Point or Reserve every time we showed and were the High Plains Paint Horse Club 2013 High Point Novice Amateurs and Reserve High Point Open Horse (as a four year old, her first year under saddle).

BUT! Then WHO to breed her to? I chose a modern Western Pleasure sire, VS Code Blue. He is a red roan quarter horse, Superior Western Pleasure and Reserve World Champion. He also has had the 5 panel testing done to rule out genetic defects and is HYPP N/N and OLWS n/n. His mother, Vital Signs are Good, has won 11 World Championships and is arguably one of the greatest show horses ever bred, producing offspring who have won over a million dollars in earnings. 

This is good breeding. Not three or four or five generations back - both stallion and mare, proven in the pen - parents proven in the pen and in the breeding shed.

BUT THEN the last important question - WHY breed?
I am breeding her because I believe by breeding my great young mare to a proven sire of the same discipline, I have the chance of producing a world champion foal. This foal will be eligible for Breeders Trust, Southern Belle Breeders Futurity Classes, National Snaffle Bit Association Futurity Classes, and APHA Gold Breeders Futurity classes, so IF this foal hits the ground healthy, and IF the foal is correct, and IF the foal survives - that foal can be a better horse than either his good mom or his good dad, and I can, just maybe, attain a lifelong dream of breeding my own World Champion. 

That is the kind of thought that alot of the members on this forum put into breeding - and why we hope to guide you into making the best decisions you can in regards to your horses and what you do with them. Take a look at this mare and stud, and go back and look at some of the breeding threads, who are breeding their horses and the quality of the both their mares and the studs they are breeding to.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

For what it is worth, and if anyone (including the OP) is listening, this horse does not have Impressive IN his bloodlines. Yes.. he goes back to a couple of decent horses but they are so far back it does not matter. I can say I have a "Leo bred" mare or stallion. So what? Leo is so far back in most pedigrees that a LOT of horses good and bad have Leo. Same with Joe Hancock and The Redeemer and so forth. This horse had Unimpressive bloodlines. His pedigree is "just a horse." Really it is. He needs better stallions in the first two generations to have any sort of pedigree. 

He is also not a stallion prospect for any reason I can see. He does not have the blood NOR does he have the conformation. He is CALF KNEE'd or BACK AT THE knee. I will not buy, train and especially breed a horse with this very serious fault. He is also tied in at the knee which exacerbates this fault. Add to this he is light in bone. All heritable traits. 

His hind leg cannon is set to far back under his hock. The hock is nice and low but the cannon is light and this horse is a bit sickle hocked. His peak of croup is set too far back making his coupling over long. His shoulder is steep and the point of shoulder is set low. This means he lacks reach in front and won't be long strided in front. He will also have a rougher ride. He needs less roughness to protect that atrocious front leg with its light bone and tied in knee. 

His neck ties in low to his withers. This may improve with weight. His head is coarse. 

Honestly NOT breeding material. If your sister's mare is nice, breed her to a good known proven stallion. Save your money. Do it right. You cannot make a silk purse from a sow's ear. 

Take this horse and geld him. It will help him gain weight. Ride him in the woods... he may stand up and he may not with those front legs.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Oh yes.. and his gaskin is circled because it is very very light.


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## Quarterhorse88 (Dec 6, 2013)

Thank everyone who gave me some issues I can see won't change with weight. Guess he's just gonna have to be gelded. Doesn't matter honestly to me either way. I just didn't like the attitude and rude remarks about him being a stallion. I didn't get him to breed him to my sisters mare or at all in that aspect. If he turned out ok then I might have thought about it. I was looking this morning and he had his front legs splayed out where I've never seen him stand like this. Looking at other stallions last night I see he will only be a good buddy and trail horse. Still love him all the same. Especially when he snuggles his head into my chest and hugs me.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

I think most us on here will say that is what we want out of our horses; a good buddy to have fun with, and to train them to be the best possible bridle horse we can.

Enjoy!


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

I don't see where anyone was rude, you just weren't hearing what you wanted to hear. We as people tend to think of anything that goes against what we think/say is someone automatically being rude, but that is not always the case. Yes, sometimes people are rude, but more often than not they are just speaking the truth. You have to check your ego and feelings at the door. I hope you enjoy him as a gelding!


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## Quarterhorse88 (Dec 6, 2013)

I guess I did want to hear different but felt offended by some of the comments. Things may come off different to different people. Like calling me a backyard breeder. Bottom line is he's going to be a great horse to enjoy casually.


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## boldnheart (Dec 14, 2013)

His knee bugs me. It looks like it is bending backwards.


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## asrialnorton (Dec 22, 2008)

next time save yourself the headache and never mention your horse has balls on a public forum  no good will ever come.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

asrialnorton said:


> next time save yourself the headache and never mention your horse has balls on a public forum  no good will ever come.


We aren't against breeding horses just breeding long term unsound horses. And horses who haven't earned the right to breed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Quarterhorse88 (Dec 6, 2013)

*QH stallion*

Quarter horse stallion "Ima speedy patriot" 

He still needs more weight but has grown good so far in 7 weeks I think. What do you think of his progress so far? 

He's going to be gelded when he puts more weight on so he can put on some more muscle and weight. Do you guys think he'd make a good western pleasure gelding?


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## Quarterhorse88 (Dec 6, 2013)

Here's a before


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## Quarterhorse88 (Dec 6, 2013)

Oh and he doesn't have an ewe neck it's his hair is growing back and poofs up. I tried to comb it down the best I could


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Glad you're getting him gelded... Might want to post this in the confo section as that's where you're going to get answers on if he is suitable or not.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

He's looking MUCH better, and I'm glad you're willing to geld him. He's going to make a very flashy riding horse with his bright 'orange' sheen. Still needs a bit more weight but you can see just how much he has put on when looking at his neck, chest, and topline. Good job!


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Your doing a great job with his weight!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

He should make a very nice saddle horse. What kind of job he could do depends on a lot of things. 

How does he move? Pleasure horses (really any show horse) has to travel flat kneed with a low movements. Think of the opposite as a horse that brings his knees up and looks like he is peddling a bicycle. 

His attitude and the size of his 'motor' also will tell you what kind of occupation he can handle.

His light bone, calf knees and very tiny hocks will limit hard occupations to exclude things like speed events, jumping, cattle events and other very strenuous events. Horses need very 'correct' conformation to stay sound and succeed at these strenuous jobs.

Do you know how well broke he is? That is where you need to start. It takes a very well trained horse to make a good saddle horse or trail horse. Start there and HE will tell you if he has the talent and desire to do anything else. 

His breeding is pretty common or plain. It is just good old 'Foundation' breeding. This is where most good saddle horses come from. Show breeding or race breeding only counts if you want to show. Temperment and training are the only prerequisites for a good saddle horse and pleasure horse (pleasure not meant as show pleasure).

I would geld him pretty soon. To leave him longer is only inviting him to put on a thick, coarse 'stud neck' and complicate training. Geldings train a lot quicker than studs and if you geld him pretty quickly, there won't be much Testosterone to deal with. Get it done before he 'wakes up'. Oh! And by the way, geldings are worth a whole lot more than a stud. 

We geld everything for that reason -- even horses that have won a lot as weanlings and yearlings. We used to show in the huge 'Foundation' (OkFQHR) shows here in Oklahoma. (600 entries or more at each show.) We used to regularly beat the stallions in the Yearling Futurity with our yearling geldings.

Good luck with him. You've done a great job with him.


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