# Why am I doing this, and how do I stop?



## EmilyParish (Aug 11, 2018)

Okay so I'm here to ask about an issue I have had for quite a long time, around 6 years. My first year of riding was dressage and western. I never needed to be told to sit back and I was often in a nice position with my heel, hip, shoulder and ear aligned nicely. I switched to jumping and it was all downhill from there. Six years of that and now I have a TERRIBLE habit of getting my shoulders in front of my hips, and any time I try to sit back I end up with my legs too far forward. I've switched back to western and since I'm working as an assistant trainer ans groom, I'm just focused on the horses and not being trained myself. No one ever corrects me (and most of the clients are beginners and they think I walk on water by having a secure seat). I want to get back into dressage lessons really badly but havent had the horse or the time lately. 

I don't blame jumping for my poor position, my coaches had me riding well when I was actually in lessons, and when I'm riding in a jumping saddle or in a half seat my position is still pretty good. 

I think its my own body. I think the way I am built makes me predisposed to this problem so the moment I was taught shorten the stirrups and adapt a slightly forward seat, it was over for me. 

What can I do? Any time I try to compensate by leaning back, I end up in a chair seat. I've tried just "holding" my legs back, but that causes me to tense my lower back and core as well as my buttock muscles, and I'm unable to use my legs properly because I'm holding them in place and trying to use them as an aid at the same time. I have tried to have my friends help me out while we're working, but honestly everyone thinks that since I basically ride fine that I shouldnt worry about it. 

Is there some part of my body that's weak? Something more biomechanical? I attached one photo where you can see what I do. Its driving me crazy! 

(Also note I don't feel insecure in any way, I feel very strong and balanced in the saddle because I'm just so used to riding this way.)


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

yeah, if you magically erased that western saddle, and put in a jump one, you'd look perfect!


have you thought that it's likely partly to do with the saddle, itself? this one being, perhaps, with a very forward positioned stirrup bar location?


And, have you tried riding without stirrups, in that western saddle, for a week . this would stop you from relying on your leg so much. you'd HAVE to sit more upright.


also, looking at that saddle's size . . . . . you are way back ON the cantle. how tall are you, and what is the seat size of that saddle? it may be too small for you. There seems to be room in front of your thight, but since you are way up ON the cantle, it's hard to tell.


more photos of you in saddle, please.


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

May be tight hip flexors. Common with jumpers. Do you ride without stirrups often? Drop your leg down, shake the leg out. Leg swings to loosen the hips (swing from the hip, don't move the seat. This will probably hurt the first few times.) Even walking around without stirrups, then pick them back up while keeping the same feel. 

Some horses make it difficult. Namely those with narrow shoulders/girths and well sprung ribs.

Saddles are a big contributor. If the working center is too far back in relation to the stirrup bar, it's nearly impossible to keep a good leg position. I have one dressage saddle that I can't ride in for anything for that reason. I rode no stirrups in that saddle for a long time because picking up my stirrups made everything fall apart. Sat in a different saddle and everything fell into place.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

Maybe instead of leaning back to align your shoulders, roll your pelvis forward underneath you to bring it in line - or a combination of the two? The trick here is not to use your abdominals (your six-pack), but your psoas muscle, so the abdominals stay loose and you can move your seat with the horse. 

Next, you want to try to open your hips and let your legs drape down the horse's sides. This heaviness will lower your heels. If you use muscular effort to keep the heels down, your legs will push forward. 

A nice way to double check while you are riding is to pretend you want to stand up in the stirrups without moving your shoulders. It's not the geometric or aesthetic aspect of the alignment you are after, but the physical aspect of balance and equilibrium. If you can stand up in the stirrups without moving your feet or shoulders, you are aligned in the sense that matters, because that means you are in neutral and you can follow any direction the horse moves in with equal ease - without bias.


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

My first recommendation is to lower your stirrups. Stand in the stirrups while letting your heels drop. You should have only about an inch of clearance between saddle and crotch unless jumping. When riding, think of basically keeping your body aligned head over shoulders over hips over heels. But don’t be so much a slave to this standard that you don’t forget to adjust your center of gravity to keep up with the forward motion of the horse.

When you canter, allow your body freedom to let your hips to flow with the motion of the horse’s back while your hands follow the motion of the horse’s head.

Also, consider the saddle. Does it allow your legs to hang properly? Does it allow you to sit centered between the pommel and cantle?


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I agree with Txhorseman, it looks as if your stirrups are to short and also that, possibly to counteract this, you are sitting to far back in the saddle.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I agree with the stirrups looking too short and also you look to be sitting right on the back of the saddle in that photo even though there appears to be plenty of room in front of your to scooch forwards it would be uncomfortable for you to do that with that short stirrup. Its putting too much weight on your stirrups which in turn is pushing you backwards and making it nigh on impossible to sit up straight


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Lower the stirrups and sit deep in the saddle not on the cantle. Is the size of the saddle correct if you drop the stirrups or are you still pushed back?


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## Saoirse (Jun 17, 2018)

I stay, I'm interested on the answers for this problem.


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

Following this post - I have this same problem no matter if I'm riding english, western, or bareback... Eager for some tips!


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## Tim Tam (Aug 13, 2018)

Oh jumping is definitely what caused this, but that doesn't mean you can't change it. Ride without stirrups a lot and don't try to post and the problem should solve itself. Riding in that position is bad for both you and your horse, so it's good you want to change it.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I agree on lowering the stirrups. However, there is nothing "wrong" about leaning forward. VS Littauer - a Forward Seat proponent, although not a "jump seat" proponent - said good riding required the rider to move "in fluid balance" with the horse. There are two ways to do this. The rider can shift weight forward to place their center of gravity over the horse's, or the horse can be taught to shift its weight back and put it under the rider.

If your horse is using a normal-for-horses forward balance, then the rider SHOULD shift their balance forward to join it! In good riding, one does NOT maintain "_a nice position with my heel, hip, shoulder and ear aligned nicely_". A good rider keeps the *stirrups*, the *horse's center of gravity* and *their own center of gravity* in a vertical line. With a collected horse, that should result in "_heel, hip, shoulder and ear aligned nicely_". But horses do not naturally move collected for any great length of time, and a balanced rider moves with the horse!

If you lengthen the stirrups, your rump will move forward. That will shift YOUR balance more forward, so you won't need to lean as much. But a forward horse should have a forward rider. Or a SLIGHTLY behind rider, trying to encourage the horse to be less forward. 

"_I switched to jumping and it was all downhill from there._" You switched to jumping and had moving in balance with the horse drilled into you. That is a good thing. If and when your horse learns - if you desire it, I don't - to shift its weight back, elevate at the withers and move "collected", your now instinctive desire to keep your balance aligned will result in your riding the proper dressage position.

With western riding, a third option presents itself: to deliberately stay "behind the horse" - your balance point behind the horse's and behind your stirrups - as a way to balance on a horse who may change directions suddenly without asking permission first. I don't cut cattle. I don't do reining. But I do ride a horse who sometimes thinks east would be a better direction than west, and who doesn't always wait for my consent. 








​ 
The rear of a western saddle tree allows one to be "behind the horse" without creating excess pressure there. Unlike an English saddle, the tree extends well behind the rider at all times. It will float on the loin, not dig in.

Riding in BALANCE is critical. Balanced with our horse, or balanced to influence our horse. The resulting position IS the correct position for that moment in time. Just wish my body would cooperate!


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Look up Jeff Moore. He is a clinician who specializes in fixing these sorts of problems.

It has been a long time since I did a clinic with him, but one of his remedies for this was to pretend that your elbows are attacked to your hip bones, which automatically rolls your shoulders back and lessons a back arch.

Good luck! Pretty horse!


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Dressage Barn | San Juan Bautista, CA - Osierlea This will get you to some of his material.


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