# long back?



## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

What constitutes as a horse having a long back? Some to be are obvious, but others, i dont see. Can someone give examples?

What kind of back does this horse have?









What about this one?


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## AngelGurl (Jan 22, 2008)

Woah!
I can't tell you, but that 2 horse looks really weird..


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## Harlee rides horses (Jan 13, 2008)

She has a flat, long back.


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## AngelGurl (Jan 22, 2008)

Harlee:
Why does he butt look so much higher then her withers?


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

that second horse is on a hill, and her head is pointed towards the camera.

Harlee, What makes her have a long back?


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

and which horse has the long back? The first or second one?


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## Delregans Way (Sep 11, 2007)

number 2, is seriously built down hill... and she/he does have a long back.... they are the same horses arnt they??? :?


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## AngelGurl (Jan 22, 2008)

well, im sorry i didnt see the hill.
you dont need to make me sound stupid.


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## Harlee rides horses (Jan 13, 2008)

Butt highness- she is most likely on a hill. Also she has Impressive in her and they have incredible muscling and she may have inherited the larger rump and that may be why.

Flat back- She may have inherited it. Her muscling or body fat may be too much that her back is just shaped that way. I'm sorry I don't exactly know. But to me at least her back looks long.


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

The second horse is on a hill, so she would appear downhill, but isnt.



> PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject:
> well, im sorry i didnt see the hill.
> you dont need to make me sound stupid.


Angel, there is no way anyone can tell she is on a hill. I was there when the picture was taken so that's how i know. 



> .. they are the same horses arnt they??? Confused


yes they are. But they're too different views and i just want to know.

What makes her have a long back tho? 

Is this a better picture to see her back?


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## AngelGurl (Jan 22, 2008)

well, then why'd you say it like it was totally obvious? =)
She is pretty, though. I love your horses coloring.



appylover31803 said:


> The second horse is on a hill, so she would appear downhill, but isnt.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Harlee rides horses (Jan 13, 2008)

Not being mean. But she has a long back and I don't think you can hide it unless you take a straight on butt shot. Both pictures have a long back and the newest picture does somewhat seem to make her have a long back.


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## Delregans Way (Sep 11, 2007)

ok so they are the same horse.... then why are we telling you which one has the long back...ok im confused!!


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

Well they were too different shots, so i wanted to see if a horse standing a different way could appear to have a longer back when it didn't. 

I still don't understand how she has a long back, but I'll take it, because i did ask for everyone's opinions. 

Can someone post a picture of a horse with a short back? Just so i can see the difference?

I always thought she had a short back. When i put on my saddle, there isn't tons of room from the back of the saddle, to her rump. When i'm on her, i basically touch the base of her tail.


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## Harlee rides horses (Jan 13, 2008)

Another reason her back is so flat and long is because her withers are just about nothing making it seem so elongated.


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

Well in person, she definitely has withers. I think its just the pictures i took. 

I have seen horses with barely any withers, and i just don't think she has it.


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## Harlee rides horses (Jan 13, 2008)

I must have come off wrong she doesn't have enough to make her back look shorter.


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

I may be way off here but I always thought a long back was called so when the neck and back are not in proportion. the back and neck should be equal. Am I wrong?


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

Harlee, i understood what you meant. But i was saying that if you were to compare those pictures to her in real live, you'd see that she does have withers, and that i personally don't think she has a long back.

Do you happen to have a picture (of your horse maybe) that has a short back?


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## Harlee rides horses (Jan 13, 2008)

Actually no I don't because my computer broke down and we had to redo everything and I haven't gotten pictures of him yet.


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

That makes sense Vida. This one horse BluMagic posted, definately has a long back.


it was under the breed she never heard before, until now.


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## brittx6x6 (Mar 4, 2007)

Well the Andalusian breed is known for having short backs..Here is a photo and a website..










http://equisearch.com/breeds/andalusianprofile/

hope this helps you understand a short backed horse...I can't really tell but I figured this would help you with the definition of a short back..(I am no good at confo ha ha ha)



A horse with a long bad would be this horse below..I don't have him without a saddle but these pics may help


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## tim (Dec 31, 2007)

A horse with a long back is out of proportion in relation to the rest of it's body. If this were not so, miniatures would have to be considered severely flawed due to a small back, and Draft horses flawed due to a long back. There is no standard back length.

The picture shows you how to evaluate it. It's a balance issue. 

Similarly, you can see the boxes overlap for a horse with a small back.










Both of these images came from Wikipedia. There is an excellent article about back conformation and mechanics if you search 'Back (horse)' on Wikipedia. I'd post a link but for some reason it doesn't work.


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## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

Naw that horse doesn't have a long back!  It's not a short back, but you don't want one of those either. I love the coloring of that horse.


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## Harlee rides horses (Jan 13, 2008)

Why don't you want a short back? The horses are sturdier, and more supple.


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## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

I want a horse with a normal back. Not long not short.


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## tim (Dec 31, 2007)

Actually long backed horses have a better ride, and short backs have a sturdier back. Both, though, have drawbacks. (no pun intended)

Like horse_luver said, a normal back (which the vast majority of horses have) is the best scenario.


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

It really depends on what the horse is to be used for. If you have a pack horse or one that will carry heavy weight you want a short back.


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

Those are very interesting pictures. And i'll have to box Vega out and see. 

I always thought horses with long back were like obvious to see, but it all depends on the eye of the beholder.

Horse_luver, thanks for commenting on her color. I think she is a snowflake appaloosa, but i'm not sure, never seen one.

Vida, Vega is just my pleasure horse. I might want to get into showing, but i highly doubt it.

It's interesting, because when i first posted pics of her, no one made a comment about her back.


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## Sara (Jul 6, 2007)

Horses with a slightly long back are actually considered more flexible in dressage. You just have to find the balance point between good flexibility and easy of collection: very long horses can get really strung out and are just a lot more work to ride.


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

I just thought this was useful information that was left out. I don't think she has a long back, and that her's is either normal or short. Everyone can take it as it is, but that is what I've come up with.  



> A horse's back is considered long if the length from the peak of the withers to the point of the hip exceeds 1/3 of the horse's overall body length (from the point of the shoulder to the point of the buttock, excluding head and neck). Long backs are more often seen in "gaited" horses, such as Saddlebreds or Tennessee Walkers. They are sometimes, but not always, associated with long, weak loins. The advantage to a long back is that it is flexible, making the movement of the back flatter, quieter, and makes a smoother ride. Even horses that are not gaited often have a smoother trot and long strides, making them comfortable to ride. On the other hand, it makes it harder for the horse to lift or "round" the back to develop speed or engage the hindquarters for high levels of collection. It takes longer to develop the muscles in a long back, and they are more prone to muscular strain and swayback as they age.
> 
> A horse's back is considered short if the length from the peak of the withers to the point of the hip is equal to or less than 1/3 of the horse's overall body length from point of shoulder to point of buttock. A moderately short back is generally a desirable trait and can be seen in any breed, though are more common in American Quarter Horses, Arabians, and Morgans. The advantage to a short back is that the horse is quick, agile and strong, able to change direction with ease. A horse with this conformation is less likely to have back pain associated with the weight of the rider, especially if well-muscled. A short back is usually associated with being "short coupled," that is, short in the loin, making a horse of this conformation ideal for such agility sports as polo, roping, cutting, and reining. However, a short back can be less flexible if too short, and even ideally-conformed horses with short backs can have "springy" gaits that may cause difficulties for inexperienced riders. A too-short back can lead to spinal arthritis if the horse has difficulty bending.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back_(horse)#Back_conformation


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

It is funny that Appylover posted this because I have been wondering about it also. Most of the critiques I have seen, refer to the horse having a long back. If a normally proportioned back is what most horses have, how do most horses end up being critiqued as having a long back? 

Which of these horses have a long back? short back? normal back? Furthermore, what might their respective backs be good for? WP? Dressage? Jumping? Trail? etc. Also, what related problems might they see because of such and such back length as they age?

I am just trying to get a better grasp on this back thing, as it seems to be so commonly addressed in critiques. And, yes, these are my family's horses, but don't be afraid to be politely straight forward about them. These horses all have varying uses, and I already have various opinions on their range of faults.  I just want to look at this from the perspective of their backs.

Horse 1:









Horse 2:









Horse 3:









Horse 4:


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

I still dont 100% understand backs, but i'll give it a shot.

Horse 1: i think has a slightly long back, but his/her head is down so i think it could give the allusion that the back is longer than it really is.

hores 2: I think he has a normal sized back. Very pretty coloring btw.

horse 3: I think he has a normal to slightly small back.

horse 4: I'm going to say this horse has a slighty long back.

I have noticed that lot of people look a horse and is like "that horse has a long back" and 99% of the time, i just don't see it. It's rather frustrating


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## Harlee rides horses (Jan 13, 2008)

Horse 1 has the longest back.
Horse 2, 3, and 4 all seem to have normal backs if not just a little on the long side.


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## tim (Dec 31, 2007)

Harlee rides horses said:


> Horse 1 has the longest back.
> Horse 2, 3, and 4 all seem to have normal backs if not just a little on the long side.


This would be my opinion.

I don't think any of them are all that bad. It's one of those really nitpicky conformation points that really doesn't make a huge difference unless it's a glaring fault (as in really long or short) or you're looking at a batch of very well formed animals and you have to judge them on their conformation.


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## Delregans Way (Sep 11, 2007)

Horse 1. Has the long Back
Horse 2. Has a ideal Back
Horse 3. Is ideal however on the shorter side
Horse 4. Is ideal too, although slightly on the longer side.

Thats my opinion anyway.. :roll:


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## ak_showgirl (Feb 15, 2008)

on the horses that ak_paintlover posted the first one is the horse that i have been riding for the past 3 years, he is my jumping horse and i was just wondering if him having a longer back will aid him or hurt him in jumping ( by hurt i mean not being able to jump as high or having a harder time)?
thanks!


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## regardinghorses (Oct 26, 2007)

According to Julie Winkel who writes the Conformation Clinic in Practical Horseman, a horse with good conformation should fit in a box. This means that he is 1/3 shoulder, 1/3 back, and 1/3 hind-quarters. This is what Tim was representing with the boxes. 

It seems like a pretty straightforward way to tell if a horse's back is considered short or long. It's hard to tell in the pictures of AK-Paintlover's horses since their heads are down, we can't get a particularly clear image of how they are proportioned.

According to Julie, horses with longer backs have more scope in jumping. 

Also, there's a lot more that goes into what discipline a horse is most suited for other than back length. Hunters should have a level topline from ear to tail with a well-sloped shoulder. Jumper conformation should emphasize the hindquarters, with good length from the hipbone to the point of the buttock. Dressage horses should have a more upright build and shorter neck. Event horses should have a sturdy build, deep chest, and substantial bone.

I'm new to the conformation stuff, so I'm just parroting Practical Horseman. It's been a really interesting read and has given me a new perspective when looking at horses.


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

I didn't know it was supposed to be 1/3 of each. I tried doing the box thing, but i didn't know how it worked. One time i did it, Vega has a long back, another time, her's was normal, and the last time, her back was short :?


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## regardinghorses (Oct 26, 2007)

It's the same principle as what you posted from Wikipedia, just explained in a different way. I thought it was a little easier to understand the way Julie explained it. 

Make one box that starts at the front of her shoulder (forward most part of her her chest) and goes to the very back of her butt. Divide the box into equal thirds and then see how Vega's parts fit in, instead of making the boxes to match her and trying to go from there.

Hope that helps!

And thanks for starting this thread, it's been an interesting discussion and I think we've all learned from it.


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

ok, I'll try that.

I just thought it would be a good thread for everybody. To learn something a little bit about critiques and just to know some knowledge about horses.

I'll post Vega all boxed out and maybe get some opinions on her.


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

Is this right?


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## regardinghorses (Oct 26, 2007)

That looks like the right idea. It's a little hard to tell since her head is down; the point of her shoulder may actually be a little farther forward.

But that's exactly what I was trying to explain for drawing the boxes. Glad it made sense.

Based on the 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 model, it looks like Vega's back is a little on the long side. But there's nothing wrong with that! Normal back length doesn't necessarily mean perfect or even best, there's lots of other things to look for in conformation.


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

Thanks regardinghorses. I'll try and take a picture of her some time this week with her head up and see if it makes a different.

thanks for helping me with this.


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## regardinghorses (Oct 26, 2007)

You know how they say you learn a lot when you teach? Definitely one of those times from me. I understood the basics of determining back length, but it was a lot of fun to look it up and read the discussion and make sure I really understood. I think we've all learned a little something from this thread.


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

I think we all did too. I know I definitely did :!:


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## tim (Dec 31, 2007)

appylover31803 said:


> Is this right?


Hmm, I think what you're supposed to do is make one box that matches the size of the shoulder and move from there. 

Step one
-Make a box for the horses shoulder. It should start where the pectoral muscles begin and end right before the girth.

Step two
-Duplicate this box on the hindquarters. If the horse is properly conformed, the hindquarters should fit very well within the shoulders box.

Step three
-Take the same box you got from the shoulders and but it up against the shoulder box, around the back.

If your horse has perfect conformation, all three boxes should have equal dimensions. If there is space between the back box and the hindquarter box, the horse's back is too long. If the back box and the hindquarter box overlap, the back is too short.


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

tim said:


> appylover31803 said:
> 
> 
> > Is this right?
> ...


Oh Ok. I understand now. I'm just not good at drawing stuff to be equal (as you can see) but her back in a little long. I don't think its that obvious (atleast not to me anyways) and thats all i care about.  

Thank you Tim for clearing that up for me.


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## tim (Dec 31, 2007)

Yea, sure thing.

I actually don't think her back is all that bad really. 

In fact, she has a very nice top line in my opinion.


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

Thank you Tim! 

I just thought she was very proportionate, but just wanted some opinions about her back because it seemed to be the big thing lately.

I do have to say, the pictures don't so her justice. I'll have to take a video and see if its any better.


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

Showgirl, 

I think Dusty's back (horse #1 - the palomino) being a bit on the longer side has been what has helped him do so well in jumping. I could be wrong, but it really seems to be the natural niche for his build.


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## Delregans Way (Sep 11, 2007)

She does look like she has a good back... well its not bad anyway. Nothing to worry about :wink:


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

thank you  

oh i know this is kind of random, but every time i go to post a reply, i see a picture of this beautiful draft type horse on the right hand side of the screen. Does anyone know the breed? Does anyone else see him?


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## Harlee rides horses (Jan 13, 2008)

Yeah I either get the draft horse or a sorrel and a little girl.


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

yeahh me too. I really want to know what breed that horse is.


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## Harlee rides horses (Jan 13, 2008)

Gypsy Vanner maybe? I can't see it right now ha ha.


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