# NEVER cut off your horse's whiskers....



## ZLund (Aug 8, 2014)

Excerpt:

The trimming of a horses whiskers is illegal in Germany and Switzerland whereas many associations worldwide promote this. Strange, huh

You may be shocked to know that a horses whiskers (vibrissae) are actually an incredibly important sense to them. The whiskers around the eyes and muzzle are extremely sensitive and have a rich nerve supply (9). Each whisker in mice has a region of the sensory cortex (in the brain) dedicated to it (2). As horses and mice have similar physiology we can deduce that horses do too. ‘This dedication of a portion of the cortex to each vibrissa indicates that they must be extremely important sensory instruments which should not be removed for cosmetic purposes’ (McGreevy, 2004:51). 

Horses need their whiskers to:
o Judge texture and distance to things (3). Due to the position of

their eyes, horses cannot see under their mouth (1) and so the whiskers allow them to explore and identify what is under their nose.

o Foals use their whiskers to help them locate the teats to suckle (1).

o The whiskers and lips work together to gather information about what to eat and what not to (4). Therefore, horses without whiskers may be more likely to eat a poisonous plant by mistake.

o The whiskers are used to detect how far they are from a surface (6) and so aid comfort behaviours such as head-rubbing. Without this sensory tool they will be more likely to bump into objects and injure their faces and eyes by accident. This is especially problematic for stabled horses, who are surrounded by walls, hooks etc.

o The whiskers are thought to detect vibrational energy (5). This explains why horses with whiskers will put them near electric fences to test if it is on and avoid an unnecessary shock.

o Horses use their whiskers to communicate with a friend while mutual grooming. Mutual grooming is vital to horses both as part of their social life and as a form of silent communication. Whiskers enhance their
sense of touch and help the horse to feel the other horse’s muscles contract and relax. This allows a mutual grooming horseto assess the mood of the other (8).


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

I think you would be better suited to provide lab data from studies done on equines about this matter, instead of a biased article. 

I only say this because in all my years of working around work/show horses (who when in the prime season had their whiskers/bridle paths cut) they never acted any differently than the others who were out in the field and had whiskers. Never had any eat poisonous plants or anything of the sort. 

I think a lot more research is necessary as we don't even have a complete idea of what a whisker does neurologically. 

I'm not someone who has clean shaven horses all the time (trust me my gelding practically has an afro of whiskers on his face), but I've not seen a lot of first hand data that proves that trimming the whiskers is akin to something as highly unethical as say declawing a cat. :?


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

This again?

They're HAIRS, not sensory organs. If they were truly connected to nerve endings, it would be painful to cut them.

They're used much like a cat's whiskers for spacial placing, but it's simply not true it hurts, makes horses eat toxic plants, or causes mental distress to cut them off.


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## ZLund (Aug 8, 2014)

Incitatus32 said:


> I think you would be better suited to provide lab data from studies done on equines about this matter, instead of a biased article.
> 
> I only say this because in all my years of working around work/show horses (who when in the prime season had their whiskers/bridle paths cut) they never acted any differently than the others who were out in the field and had whiskers. Never had any eat poisonous plants or anything of the sort.
> 
> ...


Do you know that if you cut off a cat's whiskers, it dies?

A horse without whiskers, who eats off the ground, will often colic - as it cannot tell the fifference (in time) from rocks, sand and dirt)

I posted just ONE article. There are many many that have been researched.

Cannot change a stubborn horse show person's attitude though.

It's like trying to tell people how deadly a microwave oven is and how it turns food into toxic waste. People love their Microwaves, so they will argue until they are blue in the face that they are harmless.

And then there are people who think that cooked treats are good for horses too. then the ones who will put on a crib collar, rather than read extensive studies that show indigestion and pain cause cribbing a very high percentage of the time.

No horse should have any form of cooked food. No digestive enzymes in it.


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## ZLund (Aug 8, 2014)

Speed Racer said:


> This again?
> 
> They're HAIRS, not sensory organs. If they were truly connected to nerve endings, it would be painful to cut them.
> 
> They're used much like a cat's whiskers for spacial placing, but it's simply not true it hurts, makes horses eat toxic plants, or causes mental distress to cut them off.


There's just no getting through to people who think they know everything. No one said they were ORGANS. They are sensors connected to the brain!


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

ZLund said:


> o The whiskers and lips work together to gather information about what to eat and what not to (4). Therefore, horses without whiskers may be more likely to eat a poisonous plant by mistake.


 Interesting.....when I first got Cowboy, he already had his mane roached and whiskers trimmed and started showing signs of EPM within the second week. It was later diagnosed a couple of thousand $ of tests later, that his symptoms were most likely due to eating a plant he should not have.

Antidotal, but interesting none the less.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Let's talk from personal experience. For 40 years I have been showing horses, so for 40 years I have been shaving off horses' whiskers because I want to be competitive, not hick from the sticks with scraggly horse. In all those year, with all those horses, nothing bad ever happened, ever, not once. And cats don't don't die if you cut off their whiskers, whoever told you that is full of it.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

Why does that article randomly ask Who is Emily? Who is Emily?


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

ZLund said:


> Do you know that if you cut off a cat's whiskers, it dies?


This statement right here speaks volumes as to the quality of the remainder of the statements made...:?


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

ZLund said:


> Do you know that if you cut off a cat's whiskers, it dies?


Actually I speak from experience: a cat doesn't die if you cut off its whiskers. I run a rescue and have had dozens of cats come in that either needed their whiskers trimmed for a medical procedure, or came in without them due to an accident or some other medical procedure. They will lose their balance for a little while, they have a tad bit of trouble judging which places are best to squeeze into and then magically, when the whiskers grow back their fine. In fact I've had about ten cats with long flowing whiskers who suddenly decided to set themselves on fire by rubbing up against a lit candle...... after putting them out they had shorter whiskers then me or the vet had ever trimmed! :lol: they were also repeat offenders but never did die from having no whiskers...... 



ZLund said:


> A horse without whiskers, who eats off the ground, will often colic - as it cannot tell the fifference (in time) from rocks, sand and dirt)


I've been around horses for 20+ years, my mentors (both show and work horse owners) have been around longer. ALL of our horses are outside, eat off the ground and we've NEVER had one colic. In fact it's been about fifteen years since I've had a horse colic. A hungry horse will eat poisonous plants and rocks, a horse that's well fed and out in a herd will avoid them. 



ZLund said:


> I posted just ONE article. There are many many that have been researched.


Okay and I really do believe you. Give me links. I want the actual lab reports, the case studies and the pre-lab. I want scientific links and reports instead of biased web articles. (Even if these studies are in book format send me the publication info and I will get a copy.) Not being facetious I really, really do want to have these studies and be able to read them. I don't believe in gaining information from biased sources. 



ZLund said:


> Cannot change a stubborn horse show person's attitude though.


I kinda chuckled at this because I have plow horses personally. I don't show, and when I do it's at the local county fair after a work day. My horses work on farms and go trail riding, they don't show so I don't trim their whiskers. The show horses I do trim only need about one trim a year at the height of the season and even then they're left with stubble. 



ZLund said:


> And then there are people who think that cooked treats are good for horses too. then the ones who will put on a crib collar, rather than read extensive studies that show indigestion and pain cause cribbing a very high percentage of the time.
> 
> No horse should have any form of cooked food. No digestive enzymes in it.


Surely this isn't a thing? Cooked treats? Like carrots that are sauteed? I've seriously never heard of 'cooked' treats. As for cribbing please provide scientific reports and case studies. That's off topic but I would be interested in those reads. 

I'm not someone who thinks they know everything. I will be the first person to admit that I know squat. I do however listen to science and reason. We know very little about the biological make up of whiskers. We know generalities but we don't know specifics. A cat is wired different then a dog, and a dog different then a horse. Please share any scientific and unbiased links to provide a more mature and fruitful debate. 

Most people I know who trim whiskers only do so about once or twice a year and leave stubble. The horses act no different and are never any worse for wear. We don't just trim indiscriminately.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

My horses are all clean shaven ALL the time, doesnt harm them at all, In the last 28 years of horses (often 5 or more at any one time) i have never had a horse eat anything poisonous, I dont have colicy ponies,I've never had a case of sand colic or colic caused by a horse ingesting something it shouldnt. Many of my ponies have lived for more than 25 years, the oldest being PTS at 32yrs old.
My current lad falls asleep when you trim his whiskers and in fact is quite happy for me to pluck them, which concidering he throws an epic tantrum when I try to treat a tiny cut on his leg I very much doubt it hurts!
All show horses in theUK will be clean shaven except for M&M ponies. Hasnt done them any harm (some of the other practices however are a totaly different matter)

only peer reviewed scientific data, published in reputable journals would convince people and there have been no scientific evidence provided at any time.

Cats do not die if you cut thier whiskers off! I've seen cats that were attacked by dogs or burnt in fires, thier whiskers were permanantly damaged and never grew back but the cats lived long healthy lives after they were patched up.

There has also been no scientific peer reviewed papers in reputable journals about the effects of microwaves.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

ZLund said:


> Do you know that if you cut off a cat's whiskers, it dies?
> 
> A horse without whiskers, who eats off the ground, will often colic - as it cannot tell the fifference (in time) from rocks, sand and dirt)
> 
> ...


Uh. No cats won't die if you cut off their whiskers.

Fact.

When you are ready to discuss facts with facts I'm sure there would be many interesting threads but this response is SO out there that it skews my view of the whole thread.


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## Dapples123 (Jan 9, 2015)

Trimming the whiskers is illegal in Germany and Switzerland - I know the UK and other European nations were talking about banning it as well - not sure if they ended up doing that or not.

It is better for the animal to have them. But, as an owner that used to trim them all the time and now don't - I can't say they are healthier or have less health problems now.

But - they do make a difference to the animal. They use them to feel things in their surroundings. 

It would be like us cutting off our eyebrows or eyelashes - I doubt we would die of glaucoma  but, our eyes would get more sweat and dirt in them because we have taken away a natural defense that our body had.

I figure Germany has a pretty good rep as it goes with historical horse care so, when they banned it, I took notice and stopped clipping.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Dapples, no the rest of Europe hasnt banned it! the UK certainly hasnt.

Germany having a good rep for welfare? you are aware of the treatment of dressage horses over there regarding things like LDR and horses never seeing the outside of a stable unless they are under saddle.


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

Is this a joke? Really?

I know cats won't die without whiskers.

Most foods do not have digestive enzymes in them. The body produces digestive enzymes. Only papaya, kiwi and pineapple produce enzymes that help break down protein.


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## Dapples123 (Jan 9, 2015)

Oh geez - what I meant was that the historical knowledge of horse care in the country is hundreds of years old. They have five year olds that ride better than our adults. 
LDR is wrong. Show horses around the world don't see the outside of a stable. Racehorses too.

Any country and any discipline can be picked on. I'm not going to get into that fight.

So, I guess the trimming of whiskers must be REALLLLY bad if the country who you say is so bad with horses banned it.

And I didn't say the rest of Europe banned it - but it is a fact that other countries in Europe have discussed it.

I made a statement. I've done both. I didn't see a difference. But the fact is, the animal DOES feel things with them. Please do not bite my head off. Thanks.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I remember cutting off our old cats whiskers as a child (don't know why I think it as a "haircut"). I got a good scolding from my parents and got to watch the typically graceful cat bump into things. Then they grew in and she was fine.

Cats do rely on their whiskers a lot they are hunters.

Horses do not and are not. Do the whiskers have a purpose? Sure, so does everything, but they function just fine without them.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Dapples123 said:


> Oh geez - what I meant was that the historical knowledge of horse care in the country is hundreds of years old. They have five year olds that ride better than our adults.
> LDR is wrong. Show horses around the world don't see the outside of a stable. Racehorses too.
> 
> Any country and any discipline can be picked on. I'm not going to get into that fight.
> ...


Yes the other countries in Europe discussed it, found it to have no scientific merit and dismissed it. 

Arguably the UK has the highest welfare standards in Europe, it led the way regarding animal welfare charities, animal welfare laws and research on animal welfare. Yet it has been dismissed over here.

I can assure you that in the UK the vast majority of show horses do go out in paddocks, even horses like Valegro! 
Unfortunatly the majority of race horses dont but there is now a movement perticularly amongst the national hunt race trainers to turn out the horses at the very least in a sand paddock, with some notable trainers turning out in groups!


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## MyHorseTeddy (Nov 2, 2013)

during show season my gelding always has his whiskers cut...in fact, he needs them cut again because we have some shows coming up.nothing ever changes(except for the fact that he looks much nicer when hes all cleaned up)

the one time he did colic had nothing to do with his whiskers being cut, in fact, his whiskers hadn't even been cut at that time because we weren't showing


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## Le007 (Jan 7, 2013)

[Quote - Do you know that if you cut off a cat's whiskers, it dies?]

This is not true. Let's not spread untrue information.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

ZLund said:


> Do you know that if you cut off a cat's whiskers, it dies?


Ummmmm...no.

We had a cat at the vet clinic I used to work at who was one of our clinic cats. He had been rescued as a six-week-old kitten by the staff. His owner's kids had been "playing hide-and-go-seek" with the kittens and happened to put Zip in the microwave. It was one of those old microwaves that turned off when you opened the door, then when you closed the door, if there was time left on the timer, it automatically started again. Zip was in the microwave for thirty seconds. He suffered radiation burns, his tail had to be amputated, his hind legs were messed up by the radiation, and his whiskers were burned off. His owners brought him to the clinic to see how much it would be to save him. When they heard that it would be a minimum of $800 and no guarantee that he would live, the man said "I might as well just go home and beat him to death with a baseball bat. It'd be cheaper." So, the staff took him in and he was given the necessary treatment to save his life. When I met him, he was already three-years-old. His whiskers had never grown back, so he had lived THREE YEARS without whiskers, with no real ill effects. 

If horses' whiskers were attached to their brain, as you claim (which would make them sensory organs), then it would cause the horse physical pain to have them even trimmed a little bit. As I have NEVER seen a horse react in pain when their whiskers are trimmed (not cut off, just trimmed in length), I'm going to have to call bull-whooie on you and your "article."


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

I quit showing about 25 years ago. I still like to trim whiskers, fetlocks and bridle paths when I'm taking a horse off the farm. 

A well groomed horse looks much better than one that isn't, in my personal opinion.

Trimming their HAIR hasn't killed one yet, nor do I notice them going completely stupid and eating toxic plants.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Our horses are turned loose on hundreds of acres and they wear/break off their whiskers grazing about the grease wood and sage. When I go show I just have to do a touch up.
They didn't and haven't died yet.

Being kids that didn't know any better, we cut the whiskers off of cats because we heard that it makes them act like they are drunk.
They didn't die.

Weird...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

well my moms cat should be dead because of her weirdness she scratched half of her whiskers off. And my horse who's eye whiskers that grow 6 inch long (and get covered in gunk and get stuck to her face) but be in so much pain when i trim them back. all dogs that go to the groomer must be in pain too because most have their whiskers cut while their face is getting trimmed up.


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## gigem88 (May 10, 2011)

I remember cutting my cats whiskers and it didn't die until he was very old. I cut my horses whiskers regularly during show season and nope, no bad behavior or eating poisonous plants, etc. Now if you nick their skin while trimming they will give you a what for!!!


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## TamandNickP (Mar 14, 2015)

Wow! What a volitile thread! To me, and now it's just me I'm talking about, I read this thread...had a good chuckle....and now I'm just going to move along and read the next one.

What a beautiful day it is outside today! Have a good one everyone! :lol:


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## SEAmom (Jan 8, 2011)

You know, the only horses I've known to colic (sand or otherwise) had a face full of whiskers. All the "trimmed whiskers" horses I've known over the many, many years have never colicked (sand or otherwise). A whisker is not going to relay any information about material or plant type to the horse. It will only relay that there is something in that spot. A whisker will not know the difference between a rock, sand, or dirt. Just that something is there.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

ZLund said:


> There's just no getting through to people who think they know everything.


Well........ I will agree with this statement!!

:lol:



_*****walks off to go kill a cat by cutting off their whiskers_


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## ducky123 (May 27, 2014)

ZLund said:


> Do you know that if you cut off a cat's whiskers, it dies?


And if you never cut a cat's whiskers, it will die.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

gigem88 said:


> I remember cutting my cats whiskers and it didn't die until he was very old. I cut my horses whiskers regularly during show season and nope, no bad behavior or eating poisonous plants, etc. Now if you nick their skin while trimming they will give you a what for!!!


Ahhh, but he did die _after_ you cut the whiskers! Case closed.:wink:


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Its common practice for all UK Show ponies and horses to have their whiskers trimmed and I've never heard of one walking into anything as a result
They don't even notice when you trim them so can't be super sensitive - and they certainly don't stop my stupid horses from sticking their noses on the electric tape


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I wonder how sensitve they are. cat's whiskers are connected to an amazing system of nerves. they can detect vibrations in the air, without even touching the thing that is causing the vibration, like a mouse moving in the dark . I dont know how far they can detect this, but if you just move the air past your cat's whiskers, you'll see he can feel that.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

this is just an amusing aside, but one time, when I was about 12, I wanted to know what a cat's tail looked like under all that fur. So, taking scissors, I carefully clipped the hair down the the skin on the last 2 inches or so of her tail. 

when I went out to the busstop for school the next morning, she followed me and the other kids saw her tail and were freaked out. word got around school that I had "cut my cat's tail off". I sure had a rep for a while!


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

lol... well, just ask Dalilah when she cut Samsons hair... oh my my .. 
OP ... does it hurt you to shave ? pluck your eyebrows ? shave your stache , shave your nether regions? legs or arm pits ? Well then it does not hurt a horse a cat or a dog.
Yes it helps with feeling things but IT WILL NOT KILL cats dogs or horses. Now with people you look cleaner with these bits of hair shaved off.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Well plucking the nether regions would hurt. Reminds me of the waxing scene from "The Firty Year Old Virgin". But that isn't PG and this forum is!


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## Roanwatch (Apr 1, 2014)

My cat would have severe issues trying to find the ice cream bowl without whiskers, it would be like death to her.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

ZLund said:


> Do you know that if you cut off a cat's whiskers, it dies?












Reminds of some of the things I see people posting on Facebook. I read it online, it must be true!









OP, please fact check things before you post them online. That is amongst the most absurd thing I've ever read and some simple fact checking or critical thinking would tell you it's not true. The same goes for virtually everything else you've posted.

Spreading misinformation online does humanity as a whole a big disservice.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

i got good suggestion,
Buy the book "Bad Science', by Dr Ben Goldacre
Horses do not colic, having their whiskers trimmed, eating off the ground
They colic eating off of sandy ground, ingesting sand and getting sand colic

If you ever used electric fencing for horses? If you did, the idea of horses testing that fence with their whiskers, is about as solid as buying a pair of Niki's, and getting ready to hitch a ride on a comet!
They learn what a hot wire is, by actually feeling the effect, and they can tell by sound often, if that fencer is turned on
Horses crib as a sterio typi behavior, usually associated with confinement
. Ulcers are also related to both confinement, stress and diet
I have always trimmed the whiskers on my show horses, and they eat just fine, and sure as heck know I use hot wires as the top wire on all of my pastures, thus all of my horses have learned to respect fences
I'm a lab tech, that has worked in actual research, thus all these pseudo science hypes, dreamed up by various individuals, then posted as facts, really make me shake my head on the gullibility of some people!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I just have to say though that human hair does not serve a sensory purpose the way whiskers do. Human hair is more like the hair on a horses body as opposed to their whiskers.

Whiskers ARE different.

That said, while everything has a purpose horses do not by any means "rely" on their whiskers. Being prey animals their other senses are very in tune. And while a cat which DOES rely much more than a horse does will be a little clutzy without whiskers they learn very quickly to adapt, (and don't die..), and no one is suggesting to cut those off. A horse? They are FINE.

While I don't specifically do this I have zero issue with it. Unless completely body clipping I won't clip eye whiskers super short (even a small bump to the eye could be an issue unlike the muzzle) and I won't clip the insides of ears. I think clipping the insides of the ears is really the only clipping done to domestic horses that would have any effect at all (and if you show to the level where this is necessary your horse probably isn't turned out on 50 acres without fly protection)


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## KsKatt (Jun 2, 2014)

ZLund said:


> There's just no getting through to people who think they know everything.


I very carefully read through every post. There is only one person whose posts sound like they are from a person who thinks they know it all.


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

I'm a guy with a full beard and if I am eating an ice cream cone I can feel a drop on my beard but that is not because my beard is a sensory organ. It's because it's attached to my skin. So . . . .and I have no scientific evidence here, I would say a horse grazing near a rock or fence post can feel something if he brushes his whiskers it's of no great importance. BTW I am not a messy eater, clean shaven people get ice cream on their faces too


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

If you lightly touch the hair on your head you can 'feel' it in the same was Textan because its attached to you - but it doesn't hurt you when its cut and we don't see bald people having a tendency to walk into things.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

jaydee said:


> we don't see bald people having a tendency to walk into things.


i HAVE hair and i walk into things XD!


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

faye said:


> Dapples, no the rest of Europe hasnt banned it! the UK certainly hasnt.
> 
> Germany having a good rep for welfare? you are aware of the treatment of dressage horses over there regarding things like LDR and horses never seeing the outside of a stable unless they are under saddle.


Faye, please do your research first. LDR and horses being cooped up in stables is not something that is solely in Germany, and the places are few and far between.
The old stable of Toto was recently under investigation due to its lack of provision of what they deem a natural environment, which includes turn out.

Generally, Germany does have a good rep for horse welfare, but as with anything you get the good bad and ugly.

One of the military wives trimmed her horses whiskers, as she had always done in the UK. The vet gave her a stern telling off, and said although he personally had no issues with the whiskers being trimmed, it was the law. They're sensitive, they help find things like water buckets in the dark, and scratch the side of your face and are amusing to look at when they've frozen together in -15oC....but I don't believe any horse has died as a direct action of the trimming of whiskers.


Or cats.

But it would be a handy way to get rid of the beast that comes in to my garden and torments the dogs.


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## Draft lover (May 11, 2013)

Funny, the OP hasn't been back.......


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Dapples123 said:


> ...It would be like us cutting off our eyebrows or eyelashes - I doubt we would die of glaucoma  but, our eyes would get more sweat and dirt in them because we have taken away a natural defense that our body had.
> 
> I figure Germany has a pretty good rep as it goes with historical horse care so, when they banned it, I took notice and stopped clipping.


Hmmmm...

If I try to grow a beard, my face looks like feral Brillo pads are attacking it. If I tried to grow one now, at my age, it would probably look like old feral Brillo pads had leaped up and attacked my face. This, plus 25 years in the military, has led me to shaving daily. I have yet to mistake the spaghetti for the salad.

Unhappily, my eyebrows seem related to my beard...and there is nothing desirable about having feral Brillo pads attacking your upper eye. Think Andy Rooney eyebrows:








​ 
Since I'm not wealthy or an admired commentator on TV, I decided long ago that when I cut my hair I also cut my eyelashes - #2 clip (1/4"), just like my sideburns. It doesn't make me handsome, but it reduces the number of little kids who start crying when they see me...

In my unscientific survey of myself, cutting back my eyebrows to a level where I won't need to worry about them sliding off and into my eyes has had no negative effects. I don't accidentally bump into doors, at least, no more so than I did before I trimmed my eyebrows. There has been no additional dirt or debris falling into my eyes, at least, not that I've noticed.

As for my horse?








​ 
I don't trim her nose hair or her bangs, although she might spook less if she could see more. :shock: In return, she doesn't complain about me if I fail to shave before a ride.

And as for Germany....guess I'd better not move there, lest I be arrested for self-mutilation. :?


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

Bsms, hahaha you had me laughing harder than I should have been xD

Coming fron someone who, due to mild chemo for the rest of my life, has NO eyelashes, I can say they serve a purpose for sure. I am forever stabbing myself in the eye on accident, and getting crap in my eyes. BUT...i'm talking about eyelashes! No one trims their horses eyelashes. IMO it is perfectly acceptable to trim beards and whiskers that are not protecting organs. I DO have a problem with when people shave the inside of a horses ear though, or nostril. You don't see that quite as often and i'm glad because I van see that causing irritation for sure. I sure wish I had MY eyelashes.

But most grooming things we do cause a bit of functional loss if you think about it. Roaching mane, for example. not abuse at all but without that added fly protection, you just need to be aware and provide it on form of spray or something to substitute.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

I agree on trimming ear hair. I won't do it. I may even the hair on the outside of my mares ears but I won't mess with the inside. That's to keep bugs out. I will clip whiskers and do a arabian show cut on my mars face. She still eats the same amount of dirt she always dose. She still finds hr food and flings her bucket like a loon. And she still manages to not cetch her braids on anything. I think she will live. As I have mentioned. The whiskers above her eyes don't stp growing. They wil get 6in long and coverd in eye **** and actualy get stuck to her face. I think she is happier with them trimmed.


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## WildAtHeart (Jul 17, 2013)

Whether they are extremely useful to the horse or not, I still think cutting them off is silly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## filly05 (Nov 11, 2012)

Wow... I'm dumbfounded that this topic is really coming up again and to throw in how dangerous a microwave is? Did you know that fluorescent lights give off more radiation than microwaves? My horse always has her whiskers trimmed during show season and I've watched her grab a big hunk of grass ripping other plants out with it and she picks through what she wants to eat... Without whiskers. Whiskers might give them a better idea of how close something is but horses are not blind! It doesnt hurt them to cut them off, I know horses that you can clip without a halter on and they nearly fall asleep. Get a grip people. And no cats don't die if their whiskers get cut off bc I knew a girl back in high school that was cruel but did this and hey guess what, the cat didn't die!


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Filly, I think you misunderstood what I said. Microwaves aren't inherently dangerous. Throwing a 6-week-old kitten into one and running it DOES make it dangerous, though. My point was NOT the dangers of mixing cats and microwaves, though. My point was that the kitten who had been cooked in the microwave lost his whiskers, they never grew back, and he lived a long happy life (I just learned the other day that he recently passed away at age 18...still whiskerless).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## filly05 (Nov 11, 2012)

Oh no drafty that comment was not aimed at you! Someone else had mentioned that it's like trying to tell people how bad a microwave is but they love their microwaves so much that they believe it's harmless...
Ignorance just drives me nuts. People believe every little thing they read without actually researching to determine accuracy.


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## GreySorrel (Mar 5, 2012)

Have to say, this was one interesting read.....


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

filly05 said:


> Someone else had mentioned that it's like trying to tell people how bad a microwave is but they love their microwaves so much that they believe it's harmless...


And what exactly is "bad" about microwaves?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DomiStLaurent (Aug 20, 2012)

....I think I just lost any working braincells I could possibly have at 10 AM reading all of this.

I've been shaving my horse's whiskers for the past 8 years, so far he hasn't keeled over and died, coliced, been anymore uncoordinated than before, looked drunk, cried, etc.


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## filly05 (Nov 11, 2012)

PrivatePilot said:


> filly05 said:
> 
> 
> > Someone else had mentioned that it's like trying to tell people how bad a microwave is but they love their microwaves so much that they believe it's harmless...
> ...



The old myth that microwaves create very harmful radiation which I believe is what the person who posted earlier was trying to imply (not drafty). But as I said fluorescent lights create more radiation than microwaves, neither of which are harmful enough to have any sort of effect on people. The person was implying that people just love the clean look of trimmed whiskers so much that they don't want to believe it's harmful (comparing it to "harmful" radiation from a microwave). 

Either way the entire idea that trimming whiskers is bad for them is just ridiculous.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

filly05 said:


> The old myth that microwaves create very harmful radiation which I believe is what the person who posted earlier was trying to imply (not drafty).


 I suspect you're right, I just like to hear it from the person who posted it as fact that's all. I find the irony level off the charts when followed up by this:



> Ignorance just drives me nuts. People believe every little thing they read without actually researching to determine accuracy.


There's lots of garbage pseudoscience on the Internet that is aimed at trying to make people believe that microwaves are dangerous, or somehow degrade, irradiate, or destroy nutrients in food they're utilized with, but almost without exception it's been proven (for decades now) as complete and utter nonsense based on opinion, misunderstanding, and misinformation - and not science. 

Science on the other hand, as mentioned, has proven for decades that microwaves are effectively harmless. Suggesting otherwise is as ludicrous as the Op's statement that cutting off a cats whiskers causes it to die. 

Accordingly, MY quote in response would be this:



> Ignorance just drives me nuts. People believe every little thing they read without actually researching to determine *SCIENTIFIC* accuracy.


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## karliejaye (Nov 19, 2011)

I know this has been hashed to death and back, but there was one particular line that made me shake my head:

_Mice and horses are physiologically similar, so we can deduce_....etc...

Huh? Mice and horses are both chordate, mammalian animals. That's about as far as the physiological similarities go. We are in that category, so are cats, dogs, chimps, sloths, voles, tigers, wolves, gazelle, on and on and on. This is a rhetorical fallacy of huge proportions. 

OP, I know you are coming from a good place, trying to do good by horses. And you seem to be really into research and debate. In order to pick through the chaff and also debate it in a more believable manner, you may want to learn about rhetorical fallacies so you can avoid them yourself, and also see when others are making fallacious statements: List of fallacies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## danny67 (Nov 27, 2012)

I once cut off a horse's sensory organ whiskers on one side. He lost his balance and kept going in circles until he died. okay not really.

Look at all the show ponies with shaved whiskers. They seem fine.


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## DomiStLaurent (Aug 20, 2012)

danny67 said:


> I once cut off a horse's sensory organ whiskers on one side. He lost his balance and kept going in circles until he died. okay not really.
> 
> Look at all the show ponies with shaved whiskers. They seem fine.


This is the best thing I've ever read.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

My first electric fencer worked well when it decided to and other times, not so good. My mare would get out and I couldn't figure out how as I'd walk the fence looking for areas that might short it out. One day as I was leaving the yard I noticed her going to a spot that was closest to the house. I stopped to watch and discovered she was using her whiskers to see how strong the voltage was. Within about two minutes her whiskers were off. This kept her inside the fence.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

oh that is one sneaky mare XD!!!


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## kapbob8 (Mar 18, 2015)

I'm sorry but whiskers do NOT kill a cat or cause a horse to eat things they aren't supposed to or colic. I've been around show horses for 10 plus years and never seen one colic due to it's whiskers getting cut off. A cat won't die either. I've rescued cats before without them and guess what!? They lived


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## HorsesDoFly (May 23, 2015)

I am so sorry to hear of your horse with EPM. It is not seen much here in SW Colorado but it is here. I lost my sainted life partner horse to EPM. 
My heart aches for you and your horse.


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## HorsesDoFly (May 23, 2015)

ZLund said:


> Excerpt:
> 
> The trimming of a horses whiskers is illegal in Germany and Switzerland whereas many associations worldwide promote this. Strange, huh
> 
> ...


You can braid your horses whiskers into dreadlocks but as for mine I will shave them. I personally like my man to shave for me and all of my horses to be clean cut and ready to kiss..:lol:


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## HorsesDoFly (May 23, 2015)

Better to kiss a clean shaved muzzle!


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## RedHorseRidge (Nov 3, 2012)

Research has shown that horse whiskers do provide some sensory info, but they won't die without them. Personally, I see no reason to clip whiskers (in reality, trimming is for people, not horses). FWIW, my equine vet did tell me she tends to see more eye injuries in horses that have the whiskers removed around the eyes. 

We don't trim fetlocks anymore; never trimmed inside the ears.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

What's the reason to leave fetlocks untrimmed? water drainage?


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

trimming fetlocks and legs allows you to see the leg clearly. that way you can see if there is something up with a lag before and after a ride. I keep my mare trimmed up. she gets crap stuck in leg hair (and pee in her fetlock hair on her backs). trimm her face up once a month as her whiskers collect gunk and they stick to her face around her eyes (making the useless for ANY of the stated reasons to keep them). I leave her ears along as they help keep bugs out.


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## RedHorseRidge (Nov 3, 2012)

tinyliny said:


> What's the reason to leave fetlocks untrimmed? water drainage?


Partially, but also protection from flies, abrasions, plant awns, etc.

As to trimming to be able to see: we carefully feel the fetlock area every day to find any cuts, swelling, warmth, etc., just as we do other areas, so it hasn't been an issue for us.


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

Nothing like a good, hairy nose!  I'm one of those who prefers their horse how they come - with fetlock feathers, whiskers, hair in their ears, long & wild manes and tails. That's partially why I'm not showing in higher levels than some beginner training shows - I don't want to rid my boy of what he might need just because it's common practice.


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## ducky123 (May 27, 2014)

HorsesDoFly said:


> clean cut and ready to kiss..:lol:


That's why I shave.....


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## karliejaye (Nov 19, 2011)

Saranda said:


> Nothing like a good, hairy nose!  I'm one of those who prefers their horse how they come - with fetlock feathers, whiskers, hair in their ears, long & wild manes and tails. That's partially why I'm not showing in higher levels than some beginner training shows - I don't want to rid my boy of what he might need just because it's common practice.


I'm with you on this one! I like scruffy whiskers. Heck, DH even has a beard down to the middle of his chest!
I leave my horses' whiskers, ears and fetlocks, mainly because I don't show. I personally feel they do provide some use to the horses, so I leave them. I do cut bridle paths and roach Cruiser's mane, I feel bad when I tangle the bridle in the hair, and I roach because we need the horse hair for our business. But I don't think they are absolutely vital, so I have no qualms about folks shaving their horses. To each their own within the confines of humane treatment


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

JW karliejaye..what' that business?

/OT!


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## karliejaye (Nov 19, 2011)

Yogiwick said:


> JW karliejaye..what' that business?
> 
> /OT!


Hahaha, ceramics. Specifically horsehair raku:


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Oh yes I remember seeing those beautiful pots!

I didn't realize your horses were also helping 

Too cool!


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## HorsesDoFly (May 23, 2015)

kapbob8 said:


> I'm sorry but whiskers do NOT kill a cat or cause a horse to eat things they aren't supposed to or colic. I've been around show horses for 10 plus years and never seen one colic due to it's whiskers getting cut off. A cat won't die either. I've rescued cats before without them and guess what!? They lived


One of our house cats loves to sleep behind the wood stove in the winter. One winter he singed his wiskers off on one side of his face. He was funny looking but no worse for wear. He was not blind, dumb or walking like a drunk! He still sleeps behind the wood stove every winter.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

waresbear said:


> Let's talk from personal experience. For 40 years I have been showing horses, so for 40 years I have been shaving off horses' whiskers because I want to be competitive, not hick from the sticks with scraggly horse. In all those year, with all those horses, nothing bad ever happened, ever, not once. And cats don't don't die if you cut off their whiskers, whoever told you that is full of it.


Same for me too! Mine all have their whiskers removed during the show season - I've shown at County level and at Horse of the Year so all mine have to be perfectly turned out. None have ever had colic, eaten poisonous plants - which they judge by taste and smell not feel.

Horses eat Ragwort more often when they have nothing else to eat and you can be pretty sure that if they haven't got sufficient food to eat their owner is not likely to be the sort to trim whiskers!

I draw the line though at clipping out the ears inside, I tidy the hair that sticks out but leave the rest as it prevents flies getting in the ears.

OP - Life is too short to get yourself so distressed by all the gadgets we have - microwaves use nothing but energy to warm food - nothing toxic in any way at all - A microwave oven, commonly referred to as a microwave, is a kitchen appliance that heats and cooks food by exposing it to electromagnetic radiation in the microwave spectrum. This induces polarized molecules in the food to rotate and produce thermal energy in a process known as dielectric heating. from Wikipedia. 

Your mobile phone is likely to cause you more damage than a microwave oven!


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

ZLund said:


> No horse should have any form of cooked food. No digestive enzymes in it.


And none in the raw food either! The enzymes are produced by the digestive system of the horse, with different foods needing different micro organisms to aid in digestion - the reason that you introduce new foods in small quantities.

Cooked foods actually improve digestion as they prevent whole grains getting into the hind gut and causing hind gut acidosis. The horse will actually get more out of cooked food than of uncooked.

Personally I still feed straights as I don't like some of the other things put into horse feed like Soy. I feed mine grain, graze them on grass in large areas and have no trouble with any metabolic diseases.


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

I had a mare that would do the same thing. So did my donkey.
She got a rude awakening when I finally bought a new charger.



Saddlebag said:


> My first electric fencer worked well when it decided to and other times, not so good. My mare would get out and I couldn't figure out how as I'd walk the fence looking for areas that might short it out. One day as I was leaving the yard I noticed her going to a spot that was closest to the house. I stopped to watch and discovered she was using her whiskers to see how strong the voltage was. Within about two minutes her whiskers were off. This kept her inside the fence.



I'm not a big fan of the shaved and cropped look. Makes the poor horse look incomplete to me. I do trim a small bridle path on the one horse I ride. I don't show so it doesn't matter if we are a little hairy.


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## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

KLund this is sooooooooooooo true.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

Zlund .. I hope you never have an old toothless horse that needs some cooked food , like carrots , cause they cannot chew them raw. I also hope you do not use any applesauce for your horses.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

stevenson said:


> Zlund .. I hope you never have an old toothless horse that needs some cooked food , like carrots , cause they cannot chew them raw. I also hope you do not use any applesauce for your horses.


Or boiled linseed!
or any form of oil in their feed as I guarantee that to make the oils they cooked it!


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## danny67 (Nov 27, 2012)

If horses didn't need whiskers, fuzzy ears and furry fetlocks, then nature would have gotten rid of them.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

danny67 said:


> If horses didn't need whiskers, fuzzy ears and furry fetlocks, then nature would have gotten rid of them.


They have to a degree in various breeds, Arabians don't have fetlock feather or hairy chins. They developed in very hot dry climates. TB's generally don't, they have a lot of Arabian in them, my Clydesdale has masses of very fine feather, she's developed from horses in colder climates.

For the show ring her beard and whiskers are trimmed to show off her lovely head. The tuft of hair that hangs out of her ears is also trimmed.

Just because nature produces them hairy doesn't mean that they have to look that way all the time


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## ducky123 (May 27, 2014)

danny67 said:


> If horses didn't need whiskers, fuzzy ears and furry fetlocks, then nature would have gotten rid of them.


Any gelding owner can see a rather large hole in your theory.

Other than killing some random cats, you can groom your horse to your heart's content consequence free.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

danny67 said:


> If horses didn't need whiskers, fuzzy ears and furry fetlocks, then nature would have gotten rid of them.


Surely that argument is the same as saying if we didnt need it nature would have gotten rid of our appendix! or our tonsils or our wisdom teeth.

Or if you want to stick with horses, then nature should have gotten rid of the horses chestnuts or wolfe teeth


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Tnavas said:


> They have to a degree in various breeds, Arabians don't have fetlock feather or hairy chins. They developed in very hot dry climates. TB's generally don't, they have a lot of Arabian in them, my Clydesdale has masses of very fine feather, she's developed from horses in colder climates.
> 
> For the show ring her beard and whiskers are trimmed to show off her lovely head. The tuft of hair that hangs out of her ears is also trimmed.
> 
> Just because nature produces them hairy doesn't mean that they have to look that way all the time


Can definitely disagree with the first paragraph. Sure real feathers vs non feathers and something like my Icelandics winter coat lol.

But it's definitely not as black and white as implied. My Arab has the most fetlock hair of my horses (though not "feathers", the Icelandic has very slight feathering) and my MFT definitely has the longest hair. I had to shave his head to get the bridle on... Lots of beard trimming for all.. All horses have hair in the winter and less in the summer.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I wish we would stop harping on the poor OP who has not been back since shortly after starting this thread. (Wonder why).

I think the point was made very early on.

Some comments seem a little rude..


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

Yogiwick said:


> Can definitely disagree with the first paragraph. Sure real feathers vs non feathers and something like my Icelandics winter coat lol.
> 
> But it's definitely not as black and white as implied. My Arab has the most fetlock hair of my horses (though not "feathers", the Icelandic has very slight feathering) and my MFT definitely has the longest hair. I had to shave his head to get the bridle on... Lots of beard trimming for all.. All horses have hair in the winter and less in the summer.


Would suggest that maybe your arabian is as purebred as you would like to believe. A true blue blooded Arabian will not have hairy fetlocks at all, their coat is as fine as sating in summer, and obviously if they are in a colder climate will thicken in winter.

I breed sport horses, my Clydesdale x Holsteiner has a coat like satin, almost year round, with just a tiny tuft of hair at the back of his fetlock, but he looks more like his Clydesdale mother, his sister is half TB and looks it in the summer but grows a beard and hairy legs in the winter.

I have a TB that looks like a Shetland pony in winter and another that looks like its summer year round. 

PS - Birds have feathers, horses have feather!


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

Yogiwick said:


> I wish we would stop harping on the poor OP who has not been back since shortly after starting this thread. (Wonder why).
> 
> I think the point was made very early on.
> 
> Some comments seem a little rude..


Posting such utter misinformation infuriates a lot of people who *do* have critical thinking skills and results in these sorts of situations. I think most people have been reasonably tactful in their responses, actually, especially considering how absurd the OP's claims are.

If someone posted a "Fact" thread about how the earth was flat, the sun revolves around the earth, that the holocaust never happened, etc etc...the same thing would happen.

Everyone is welcome to their opinion, but when you believe something so firmly based on a total and complete lack of grasp of fact or _science_.. one should expect a little backlash. :wink:


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## ducky123 (May 27, 2014)

PrivatePilot said:


> Everyone is welcome to their opinion, but when you believe something so firmly based on a total and complete lack of grasp of fact or _science_.. one should expect a little backlash.


Much like the university "safe spaces" of today, there is a place where it is unquestioned that horses are people (or even better than people) and nature is god. They call it "natural horsemanship".


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Tnavas said:


> Would suggest that maybe your arabian is as purebred as you would like to believe. A true blue blooded Arabian will not have hairy fetlocks at all, their coat is as fine as sating in summer, and obviously if they are in a colder climate will thicken in winter.
> 
> I breed sport horses, my Clydesdale x Holsteiner has a coat like satin, almost year round, with just a tiny tuft of hair at the back of his fetlock, but he looks more like his Clydesdale mother, his sister is half TB and looks it in the summer but grows a beard and hairy legs in the winter.
> 
> ...


Guess the fact that Arabians are by far the breed I've worked with the most is wrong then  and all those national quality purebreds are just mutts. Different breeds have different traits yes, but there is no black and white with that and as you go on to say it's all about the individual.

Pictures of my "clearly not purebred" and one of the Icelandic as well for a neat comparison. (I will note that they look pretty bad in these and that is "maximum hair" it takes forever to grow and is pretty much kept clipped) I call them "unicorn fetlocks". The Icelandic on the other hand doesn't get clipped as you can see it's more of the natural look and style and she would look pretty funny clipped.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

PrivatePilot said:


> Posting such utter misinformation infuriates a lot of people who *do* have critical thinking skills and results in these sorts of situations. I think most people have been reasonably tactful in their responses, actually, especially considering how absurd the OP's claims are.
> 
> If someone posted a "Fact" thread about how the earth was flat, the sun revolves around the earth, that the holocaust never happened, etc etc...the same thing would happen.
> 
> Everyone is welcome to their opinion, but when you believe something so firmly based on a total and complete lack of grasp of fact or _science_.. one should expect a little backlash. :wink:


Honestly I do agree and was the first to point out the issue with "facts" (you want to believe something fine, I will laugh silently, don't say it's a fact though).

That said it's been 10 pages of almost purely harping on the OP and not all of the comments have been polite :/


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## LilyandPistol (Dec 2, 2014)

About the cat whisker thing-
SPOILER ALERT Everyone dies


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## danny67 (Nov 27, 2012)

See. half one side. half the other.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

I see shaving whiskers on your horse as a personal choice...like shaving your armpits.
Will the face whiskers grow back unevenly or coarser, as our hair does after being cut?
HORRORS!!


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## danny67 (Nov 27, 2012)

I have never shaved my horses armpits. Does that help with the bugs or something?


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

Corporal said:


> I see shaving whiskers on your horse as a personal choice...like shaving your armpits.
> Will the face whiskers grow back unevenly or coarser, as our hair does after being cut?
> HORRORS!!


The hair doesn't grow back any thicker or coarser because you shaved it, what you see is ALL the hairs growing back at the same time and all being the same length. If you leave them unshaved for several weeks the hair again looks thinner and silkier.

I remember my mother going on about me waxing my legs and plucking my eyebrows, that they would grow back thicker and darker where in fact its the total opposite - I have very few hairs on my legs now and my eye brows haven't been plucked in decades and yet they remain the same thickness as they were plucked to many years ago.

Your horses whiskers do look like a serious spiky fringe as they grow back but as each hair ends its cycle and drops out the become thinner and finer looking again.


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