# I'm at my wits end with my super spooky horse.



## Chevylover96 (Dec 9, 2012)

Ok so my mare has always been spooky, but she is seriously getting worse. Here's some thoughts / history. 

She's an off the track standardbred, I got her when she was 3 1/2, and she just turned 6. She was underweight when I got her and not saddle broke. We suspected she had ulcers, after failing to gain weight and cranky behaviour.

We treated her for ulcers (without scoping) and she improved. 

I then put her on a probiotic to prevent her ulcers, and gave her omprezole before stressful situations. 

She was ride-able, better but still had an attitude and was spooky still. 

Then I suspected back pain. I got a chiropractor, he adjusted her and I saw some improvements. Months went by and she seemed to get worse and worse again. 

Then I got a massage therapist. She got monthly massages for about 7 months, she improved quite a bit. We were able to go 2 months in between, and then 3 months now. 

I got her back on track products, the saddle pad, cooler, polo wraps, quick wraps, ect. 

Again more improvement, still spooky. 

I found out she had fractured her pasturn bone when she raced, got the vet to check that out, and he said she's sound. So as a precaution I put her on a joint supplement, cold hosed after rides, always wore leg protection and hand walked regularly to prevent swelling. 

I've tried every training method I can think of. I've tried the natural horsemanship, join up, ground work approach. I've tried lunging by the scary things until she calmed down. I've tried tough love (maybe faking??) definitely not. I've tried ignoring it and remaining calm, nothing worked. my trainer has ridden her and doesn't know why she's so spooky. 

I've also tried calming supplements and pure magnesium. 

Now we're to the point where she's dangerously spooky. I had a bad fall off her and currently can't ride. So I've been ground driving her, she's still crazy spooky. Today I was taking her out to the pasture and she spooked and literally ran me over, I didn't get hurt but she's getting pretty dangerous. 

I'm at my wits end. I'm considering 2 options right now. 
Scoping for ulcers and seeing once and for all of she actually has them.
And getting the vet to check her eye sight? 

What should i do? I need help. I've contacted trainers and they're all booked for the year. I don't exactly have money to throw away, I've spent so much already.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Wow! First kudos to you for going through all that testing and treating! May horse owners don't even want to do the bare minimum, let alone get a chiropractor and a message therapist! 

Second? Have you considered that she is just spooky? Let's face it, I'm sure she never was exposed or properly desensitized to many things. I'd totally start her training from day 1, like she is a wild (feral for those of you who prefer) mustang. Work her in the round pen, get some join up actions and start etablishing some respect and leadership! Start desensitizing her to EVERYING. The more things you introduce the less scary everything will become and the more she will realize that she can TRUST you to not let anything hurt her. I'd find a local trainer to help guide you through the process.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Magnesium supplement. It'll work wonders.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Crap, just saw you already tried that. Have you had her eyes checked?


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## Chevylover96 (Dec 9, 2012)

Not yet, I'm thinking of getting her eyes checked. I just switched her to a lower starch/ sugar grain and put her on another calming supplement so I want to see if that helps first. 

Do you know what an average cost would be to get her eyes checked?


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

This won't cost you anything. If her weight is good, try tapering her off until on hay/grass only. Her diet may have a bearing on her behaviour. I've seen this in hot-blooded horses. She was bred to run and no where to work off all the feed energy. Eyes are very rarely the problem. If you have a smaller area to work her in, round pen,paddock turn her loose with no halter on. Take your lunge whip with and simply ask her to move, not fast, just move. You are telling her what to do. Change direction frequently. The more you boss her around the more she will settle down. Don't work her up so she's reactionary. Just take your time. Think "I want you to move there, no there, no, over there and make her do it. Not seeking perfection, just controlling her feet.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I agree in checking her eye sight, but really think she lacks respect, because only if she is blind, is there any excuse in spooking and running over you
Not ulcers, joint issues or any other excuse justifies her trying to run over you.
Fine to rule them out, but recognize that a respectful horse, even when in pain, does not try to run over you
Standardbreds are usually never as hot as TBs, thus her being race bred should not be a factor to the same extent as OTTBS
Standardbreds,are raced though, with blinders, so that might be a factor, suddenly seeing stuff not just directly in front of her.
I agree in going back to basic under saddle training, as you would on a horse never ridden before, forgetting that she was 'ground driven'
Curious-who complete was her under saddle training? 
A horse that gets worse, usually has tested the rider a little bit all along, and got the 'wrong answer'. Thus, it is possible that she has learned to use spooking to get out of work, or has learned to become a;habitual spooker' You have to get after a horse like that, or they never improve, or get worse
I posted the you tube video several times, where Larry trocha goes into the different kinds of spooks and how to deal with them, including the habitual spooker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt7QnI0DMM4

Certainly get rid of any hot calories, which help make ahorse reactive


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## Dreamcatcher5 (May 15, 2012)

It may possibly be her eyes. Like Saddlebag said, eyes are rarely the problem, but I think it would be worth getting them checked out just to make sure. 
A lady I know had a horse who was seemingly healthy but growing increasingly spooky. She too tried just about everything, from supplements to countless chiro sessions. Turns out the horse was suffering from a degenerative eye condition and was by then almost completely blind. 

Have you tried riding her out with company, and if yes, is she just as spooky as she is by herself?
Perhaps she doesn't feel safe enough to go "out there" by only herself and you. 
Hand-walking every day past "scary" objects, with the aim of getting the horse to focus on YOU instead of the scary stuff worked wonders with my (also an off track Standardbred) gelding. 

Best of luck!


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

I'm not sure what your boarding situation is but I know my horse got a little more edgy with a less than ideal situation. 

Is your horse on full turnout with a stable herd of horses? I've found this has been the most stabilising influence on horses. This combined with a super simple diet with just hay and grass.

Also ensuring you're an effective leader.

Otherwise I'm not sure what to do. Some horses are just spooky - horses have different personalities and just as you have nervous and anxious people you have horses like that too.


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## Chevylover96 (Dec 9, 2012)

I ride her with her buddy sometimes, and she's always better with him, but she just follows him, doesn't actually respond to what I'm asking if her.


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## Dreamcatcher5 (May 15, 2012)

Chevylover96 said:


> I ride her with her buddy sometimes, and she's always better with him, but she just follows him, doesn't actually respond to what I'm asking if her.


She's likely following her buddy because she feels safe around him, so she wants to stick as close to him as possible. My horse used to be like that, too. This is because he saw his buddy as the leader, not me. I'd suggest you follow the previous advice given of making sure that you're an effective leader and spending some time with establishing a solid relationship with your horse so that she feels like YOU can keep her safe and sound in the "scary" environment. That way she will be less spooky (if at all) and focus on you instead of her buddy.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi, haven't read all replies...

Sounds like you have been pretty thorough at considering & dealing with health issues, but some questions...



Chevylover96 said:


> We treated her for ulcers (without scoping) and she improved.


Have you considered that you improved but didn't get rid of the ulcers, or that they've returned? Omeprazole suppresses stomach acid, which can then allow stomach ulcers to heal. It doesn't actually heal them though, so IMO should be used 'in conjunction with', and it only acts on the stomach - does nothing for hind gut ulcers. It has not been shown what problems may arise from long term suppression of stomach acid.



> Then I suspected back pain. I got a chiropractor, he adjusted her and I saw some improvements. Months went by and she seemed to get worse and worse again.


Did you get the chiro back, or only that one treatment? If not, why not, if she improved from it & gradually declined after it? 



> I've tried every training method I can think of. .... my trainer has ridden her and doesn't know why she's so spooky.


I think whatever training/handling is absolutely a part of it at least, but can't give specifics without specifics there. If you're not that experienced, I can see this as most relevant, but *assuming* your trainer is good, if they get the same behaviour, then it may not be the most of it.



> I've also tried calming supplements and pure magnesium.


Great! I assume if you've done so you've looked into her whole diet & nutrition & ruled it out? Eg. high starch, rich feeds, high potassium levels, etc, effecting her behaviour. How long did you try the calming supps & Mg? What type Mg?


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

This is a long shot but is the fencing electric? It's rare but some horses seem to be super sensitive to it and it will make them spooky. I've had horses behind electrified high tensile fence for the past 22 years and I've had a lot of different horses in that time. Only one out of all those had a problem with it. Would bolt in and out of the gates, jumped out of his skin if you even touched him, loud noises, etc... Ended up having to keep him in the round pen until I could sell him to a home that didn't have electric fence. 

I actually didn't know what was causing it at first until an old horseman suggested the cause so the experimenting began to see if that really was the problem. I could shut off the charger and walk him around the fence and he was fine. Turn the fence on and he was a spaz again even though he was far enough away from the fence that it shouldn't have had any effect on him. It was pretty strange.


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## Chevylover96 (Dec 9, 2012)

I had her on magnesium for about 3 months, I had bought a big tub of it and just used it until it was gone. 

Now she's recently put back on a calming supplement (at ease) that she was on, I didnt think I saw major improvements, but she's gotten worse, and maybe part of the getting worse was taking her off of that. 

I just bought her purina integreti, which is lower in starch and sugar than her current feed. I'm starting her on it today.


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## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

I'm subbing because I really want to know the outcome of this. 

I agree with slidestop- maybe at the end of the day, after you have tried everything you just need to go back to square one with her and start all over with the training. From the ground up, literally. I think there is a legitimate reason as to why she's so spooky- I don't think it's pure disrespect. I do think you need to work on the respect issue though. Respect gets you trust which gets you a horse that won't run you over 

I really commend you though for putting so much effort into figuring this out!


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

The feed sounds like a good bet.

How much turnout does the horse get?


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## fallen (Nov 29, 2008)

Chevylover96;764201 I just switched her to a lower starch/ sugar grain and put her on another calming supplement so I want to see if that helps first.
Do you know what an average cost would be to get her eyes checked?[/QUOTE said:


> I would take her off ALL feeds ...start from scratch hay + water and vit/min mix .. some horses are very sensitive to starch ..I have one horse here omg if he even smells it he jumps at his own shadow :wink:


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

3 possibilities:
blindness
disrespect
riding next to an electric fence
Clinton Anderson: "Give your horse a heart attack every day." (loosely paraphased, but correct.
Your horse came to you spooky and your training has reinforced that he has REASONS to fear.
You may need to hire a trainer who isn't afraid of your horse.
If not, at LEAST buy this book--it's cheap compared to the other stuff we buy.
Clinton Anderson's Downunder Horsemanship: Establishing Respect and Control for English and Western Riders: Clinton Anderson, Ami Hendrickson: 9781570762840: Amazon.com: Books
I had to teach lessons after the BO decided to run electric on the inside of his arenas. It's very dangerous. I am sorry if this is only option that you have, though you could change barns. Most of us know that riding a horse that hits an electic fence is suicidal. Can't help you any more than that.
I had a horse that was 7yo and going blind. He was kicking and reacting to shadows. My Vet's associate caught it during a routine exam and took the horse to the inside of a dark building to use a flashlight to examine.


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## Chevylover96 (Dec 9, 2012)

She gets turnout 24/7 in the summer if weather permits, she is in her stall when it's raining or snowing. When she is stalled, I always give her some turnout in the indoor arena for at least a couple hours. 

We are doing lots of renovations currently at our barn, and the paddocks are being made much larger, so she should enjoy that as well!


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## Chevylover96 (Dec 9, 2012)

Honestly, doing all this for my mare is a no brainer. It may be hard to believe but when she's not running me over, spooking or bucking me off, she's the sweetest mare ever. I've taught her lots of tricks, and when she gives her kisses and hugs it just melt my heart. 

In all honestly, if it's her eye, or something physical that we can't really fix, I'm not selling her. I'll move her to a cheaper barn (without an indoor) and keep her there as a pet/ trick horse, and let her enjoy her retirement. I'd buy a new horse to ride, but keep her, Im not giving up on her, even if she isn't a good riding horse.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Chevylover96 said:


> Honestly, doing all this for my mare is a no brainer. It may be hard to believe *but when she's not running me over*, spooking or bucking me off, she's the sweetest mare ever. I've taught her lots of tricks, and when she gives her kisses and hugs it just melt my heart.
> 
> In all honestly, if it's her eye, or something physical that we can't really fix, I'm not selling her. I'll move her to a cheaper barn (without an indoor) and keep her there as a pet/ trick horse, and let her enjoy her retirement. I'd buy a new horse to ride, but keep her, Im not giving up on her, even if she isn't a good riding horse.


That right there is an indicator that you aren't herd leader in this relationship.

How do you handle her on the ground, where does she walk when you are leading her somewhere? Does she go into scary places with you (following) or does she hesitate? Does she yield when you ask or is there fear or balking? How does she treat you loose in the pasture?

Have you done any sacking out session or just hand grazing her and then asking her to respectfully back off?

My horse respects me so much that if I make a noise he'll stop grazing until he's given permission to eat. It took a long time to get there, but his trust made our rides safer and more fun.

Who feeds her? What EXACTLY do you feed her? How is her weight, what kind of keeper is she (harder to get weight on, easy to get weight on, somewhere in between, sensitive to feed, etc.) ?

What level of rider are you? How experienced is your trainer (asking for info only, not to hate)?

What style of riding do you do with her? How does she respond to leg or seat aids? How does she respond to rein cues? 

Could you get a video of you riding at walk trot and canter? (if you're brave, this is only to see what she's doing as you're riding tbh I'm not going to grill you or anything) Horses tell all on their face on how they feel with you/about you whilst being ridden

What kind of saddle do you ride in? When was it last reflocked? Have you always been with the same trainer or had multiple? Has she always been at the same barn or have you switched since you bought her?


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## Charlie1503 (Jul 3, 2015)

Hi, 
Have you tried getting a supplement from Hack Up Bespoke. They formulate something especially for your horse to accommodate for your horses needs. They also don't contain sugars so it's nice a healthy for horses. I hope this may help


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

First, what is her pedigree? Do you know her sire or dams name or her registered name? Some lines of standardbred are a little bit more prone to certain behaviors than others. We have some Cash Hall babies right now that are bit of a handful in the stall. 

I also agree with the others that it might be handling related. How long did she race? Why was she retired? Some horses are retired for being spooky on the track they usually are retired at a very young age and they are very, very rare. These horses tend to have a reputation around the track i.e. they take the driver through the infield and everyone is talking about it for the next month or so.

She saw a lot of things at the track and you can bet your boots that while a lot of behavior was tolerated running someone over was not one of them. Which is why I suspect its a handling dynamic and this mare has your number.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

She just simply sounds like a horse that lacks training. A horse has to have enough respect for their rider and handler to listen and obey and needs enough confidence in that person to trust them to make all of the decisions. This horse has neither respect for you or confidence in you. All the medical problems in the world can be dealt with and it will not help your situation at all. 

If spooking has no consequences, it continues and often times gets worse and worse. 

If a rider pets and sooths a horse when it spooks, they are only rewarding spooking. 

Always remember that the worst behavior you accept is the best behavior that you have any right to expect.

Read the entire article at the top of the 'Training' section. http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/how-we-train-fearless-trail-horse-99776/

These methods work for any kind of horse with any kind of background.


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## hollysjubilee (Nov 2, 2012)

Chevy, thank you for not giving up and for seeking more information to help both you and your horse. These "problems" we encounter and share in our horse experiences are great "Horsemanship101" courses for us and give us the knowledge and skills to deal with the next horse or next issue whether it be in ourselves or our horses (usually involves both.  ) Your questions help each of us review our methods or investigate new ones, so thank you.

I don't believe in looking for excuses for bad behavior, so I'm not trying to provide an easy excuse for your horse's spooking and subsequent behavior, but I'm casually investigating the SWIRLOLOGY theories presented in this article. (http://www.foxpointfarm.com/Swirlology.html) Does she have any strange whorls/swirls in her hair coat? 
I have a friend who is studying with Linda Tellington-Jones to get certified in TTouch. She has told me: "I don't know if Linda's way is THE way, but it's definitely a gentle, effective way" to deal with training issues. I read one of Linda's books years and years ago (gave it away to another interested horsewoman) and I remember being very skeptical of her "reading" of whorls and interpreting what it means for the horse's personality and "trainability."
I don't put a lot of stock in it, but from the article, you can see that there are many experienced horse trainers/owners who do put stock in the theory and believe they have solid proof of the connection between whorls and the flow of "energy" in the horse (in my understanding, the flow/route of impulses between the horse's brain and its body).
Anyway, just curiosity on my part . . . particularly since I have had one gelding for 11 years who is the most difficult horse I've ever dealt with, and is only JUST beginning to find consistency and act like a "real" horse in response to cues . . . and when I found this article (sometime within the last couple of years) I went out and investigated all the horses (11) on my property and he is the only one with odd, disconnected whorls. He gets treated no differently than any of the other horses I've trained/owned over the past 47 years, but maybe that's my problem . . . Maybe (and I'm a teacher, so should have figured this out) he needed special education classes, and I didn't modify the lessons enough for him.


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## Shadow (Jun 28, 2010)

Bout 10 yrs ago, I bought an 18 yr old QH mare. Rode her on her home pastures only and by herself and she did just fine. Wow, but take her off her property by herself or in the lead, she would spook at pebbles, crickets or anything for that matter!!! I rode her yr round. I tried everything to get her out of it. Some I think just never get better. Finally gave up and sold her. I have a really poor record with so called broke horses. Way easier to just start a colt.


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## LilyandPistol (Dec 2, 2014)

Subbing ;-) Best of luck to OP. I'm glad you aren't giving up on her.


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