# When to sell? Difficult horse. I'm exhausted



## Texasbby (Mar 26, 2015)

Hey! I hope I'm posting in the right place. It's been a few years since I've posted on this site. 

I've got a 15 hand fourteen year old ottb mare that I'm seriously considering selling. 

Will start off with some background info. 

I've been riding and owning horses for the past ten years. 
My family and I have had our fair share of difficult horses in the past and I personally find myself drawn to the tricky ones. 

I was without a horse of my own for about a year while going to school then bought Daisy after I graduated and had saved up. 

Daisy came from a bad situation, she was abandoned on a friends property and though very sweet and calm she had major trust issues and I bought her knowing she wouldn't be an easy horse. I since learned from her breeder and past owners that she's never been and easy horse but she's sweet and loved despite her quirks. 

My barn owner and coach knew I had confidence issues after dealing with a young horse who would explode under saddle and she was certain daisy would be a good match for me so I bought her. 

The first few months I had Daisy she was very standoffish and not too sure of people or other horses but she was still very sweet and our only main concern was that she was still green at the canter and that she would nip being tacked. 

I've had her for a year and a half now and it's been a major roller coaster with her. She has bit me numerous times, kicks out at me and has had an on and off problem with refusing to lunge. She's reared at me, spun around to try and kick me etc.

About six months into owning her we were walking out on a trail and she out of nowhere bolted and threw a massive buck resulting in me going flying and breaking a couple ribs. I also had a massive concussion. It took about four months to properly heal and I got back into work with Daisy. 

Despite all the attitude she's a super smart and silly horse, loves my sister's horse to death, and has the most give and heart of any horse I've met. 

I've spent lots of time working with her on all her quirks and have done everything I've been told/taught to gain her respect and trust and I'm just not making the progress I thought I'd be making. As soon as I think I'm getting some where with her a new issue pops up. 

Fast forward to now. 

I'm working full time and going back to school in a few months. My 13 year old sister, whose an incredible rider, and my mom have been helping care for Daisy when I'm unable to get to the barn. My sister's made lots of progress with her but Daisy isn't getting the time she needs and the odd times I get to work with her are always frustrating and result in me either just walking around on her under saddle or putting her away in annoyance cause she decided to rear again. 

Right now I'm on winter break from work and I've been making it a habit to ride her everyday even if it's just for a walk. She was very ornery during my ride yesterday and kept tossing her head when asked to trot. My sister got on her and she worked beautifully with her until she out of nowhere bolted and threw a massive buck resulting in my sister falling off. 

It was the same thing that happened to me the day I broke my ribs. 

My sister was in the hospital this morning cause she couldn't stop puking. She's got a major concussion and has been sleeping most of the day.

And so, the thought has popped up before and is back even stronger. Maybe it's time to sell. 

I think I bit off more then I can chew. 

I love this horse dearly but I'm terrified of getting hurt or my sister or mom being seriously hurt and after a year and a half of this battle to gain her respect I honestly believe she's just not a fan of me. 

Should I keep trying or sell her? 

Would someone even buy her?

I'm not one to give up easy and I'd be heart broken if she ever got sold to meat but I'm exhausted and scared and don't know what to do. 

I'm having a talk with my coach tomorrow about things but the more advice I get the better.

Thanks.


----------



## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I'm so sorry you are going through this. That must have been difficult to write out.

I can sit here, far away, and guess about why your mare behaves as she does. Ulcers? Saddle fit? Poorly started? and so on.

But, the fact remains you don't have the time to put into her. Both you and your sister have been injured by her. The mare isn't getting the chance to be a "good citizen."

I think I know what I'd do.

I hope you come to a solution that works for you, your family, and the mare.


----------



## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

It sounds like this mare needs to be taken back to the beginning, but it also sounds like you don't have the time to work with her on a daily basis. With her current issues, I'd be worried about anyone getting hurt unless you could find a good trainer to take her. You could also consider surrendering her to an OTTB rescue.


----------



## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

If it were me, in your position, I would sell. And I love my horses and generally never sell one, but this horse sounds like it is 1) more dangerous than average and 2) has taken the fun out of it for you. And I think riding should be enjoyable.

I had to rehome a horse I raised from a foal last year and he generally didn't buck or bolt or do anything like that, but he spooked and was so quick he would dump me once in a while. Maybe for someone else, braver and more confident, it wouldn't have been a big deal, but for me it gave me anxiety and I started to dread riding. And I LOVE riding. I didn't want to give up on horses. But I knew if I kept going on the track I was on I would probably quit because the anxiety got to be too much. I didn't enjoy riding if I was scared. :frown_color:

So I rehomed him and it was a good decision. It's been about a year now and I don't regret it. I sold him to a neighbor down the road who really loves him and isn't a chicken like me. And I have a wonderful horse now that I really LOVE to ride! It's taken a while to get over the anxiety but it's pretty much gone now, and it has taken about a year. But I truly love and enjoy my current horse. 

So even though it's hard, I think the right decision is to rehome. Practically, riding is risky enough without riding a horse that bucks people off multiple times like yours has. And emotionally, riding should be enjoyable. Horses are expensive and labor intensive so at the very least you should enjoy your time with them. And it's really nice when you feel like you can trust them! Then you feel like it's a partnership.


----------



## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

I think it's time to sell, and I think that in your heart, you know it too. You've done all you can with this horse, but someone is going to get hurt even worse. Riding this horse isn't fun anymore and if you keep pushing yourself to get on her, it may destroy your confidence in yourself as a rider - or worse. 

I also had a difficult mare. I haven't re-homed her yet, but my daughter's coach will be taking her to her place on a free off-property lease just as soon as a stall opens up. I just didn't want to ride her anymore after falling off over and over again. I found myself a young, but very solid horse and my love for riding is back! I don't get anxious on him, even when he acts foolishly because of his age and lack of experience because he's not trying to hurt me or get me off his back - he likes being ridden! The worse that happens is that he speeds up a little, or jumps sideways, but never enough to unseat me, not even close. 

I worked really hard with my mare too. I did liberty work, ground work, thought I could fix her. But now I know I have taken her as far as I can go, and it's time to let those with more experience ride her. I don't really want to sell her because I need to know she's ok, so a free off-property lease to someone I know where I can see her regularly works best for me. So I understand your concerns about selling her, and how you feel you've invested so much in her. However, think of it as you saving her from a worse fate and getting her to the point where someone else can take over. You've done her a favor to get her this far, but if you keep going with her, you may be reinforcing bad habits (my mare first threw me off accidentally, but eventually, she was doing it intentionally because she learned she could get rid of her rider this way - that's not a good thing for a horse to learn!). Let her go so you can start over with a new horse when you're ready. It's unlikely you will make any money, but maybe a free lease or a rescue that works on rehabbing and rehoming horses would be a good option.


----------



## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Some horses are more challenging than others. Sooner or later, we meet a horse that is too much for us. 

That is true of every person, because there are some horses, for whatever reason, just are not safe under saddle. 

She is a mare, so there might be a market for her as a broodmare, but at 15 her options are decreasing. 

She might be fine as a companion horse, maybe check with rescue organizations to see if there is a place for her. 

I am sorry to be the one to bring it up, but with some dangerous horses, euthanasia is a humane choice too.


----------



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

There could be a myriad of physical reasons the horse is behaving like this & it's not clear whether any of the possibilities have been checked out/treated. There could be a number of reasons mentally/trainingwise the horse is like this, and it sounds like, assuming there's nothing physical behind it that's been disregarded, if you've been 'trying' for a year & a half, you (respectfully) don't have what is needed to get her through it. Therefore, unless you have the time & money, to rule out/treat any physical probs & find her a good trainer to rehabilitate her, it is definitely time to call it quits.

BUT I would NOT sell her, unless you can find someone who is very experienced dealing with dangerous horses(pref not a 'CA style bozo' either), and will sort her out, physically & mentally. Not a likely prospect, even if she's tried & tested 'star material'. Selling her on to just anyone is only likely to cause her & her new owners further damage. Selling her at auction is either going to do the same, or cause her days to end in a stressful truck drive to mexico to be killed. Therefore I'd either keep her as a 'paddock ornament' if you can afford, and if she behaves acceptably & safely on the ground, or get a vet to come put her down. For her sake.


----------



## 281187 (Sep 19, 2019)

*Have a vet come out and have this horse euthanized*. 


You have worked with Daisy for over a year and she has severely injured both you and your sister. You were encouraged to take this horse on by people who already knew you weren't the most confident rider, this horse has a difficult past on an already challenging personality. 

You do not have the knowledge or know how to deal with this horse any longer. She is going to either hurt you or one of your family members, if not outright kill someone at some point. You likely do not have the time or the money to figure out what the exact issue is (If there even is one!). Her prospects for resale are incredibly poor- Most likely she'll end up going for a long trip down to Mexico and that will almost certainly be after being shuffled from person to person, from bleeding-heart to do-gooder over and over again until something tragic happens. 

Don't do that to her, put your big girl pants on and call the vet to schedule the appointment. There are far worse fates than death and no one loses sleep over a dead horse. Which you will if you pass her onto someone else. 



If you insist on keeping her alive and selling her, than for the love of god, please sell her to someone who at least has experience dealing with dangerous horses. Someone who can handle them without getting killed and has the experience, time and money to totally rehabilitate them. Do not sugarcoat her to whoever expresses interest in buying her- Her behaviors aren't "cute and quirky", they're dangerous! Tell them how she's already put two riders in the hospital. Tell them about the sad situation you pulled her from. And keep in contact and reserve the first right of refusal if you can. 

If you can't sell her and still want to keep her alive, then look into placing her at a horse "retirement" home. Those places are hard to find, expensive as hell and Daisy could easily live for another 15 years, but assuming she can at least be handled on the ground safely, keeping her at such a place would at least ensure she could live out the rest of her natural life in a manner that's safest for everyone involved. 

I wouldn't put much faith in surrendering her to a rescue. Nearly every one I've encountered is already filled to capacity, operates on a shoestring budget and is staffed by volunteers... who usually aren't the most experienced with horses. Most of the founders seem to have more heart than commonsense imho too. I'd be worried that Daisy would still end up being harmed or harming someone in such a situation. 


I'm genuinely sorry that you've found yourself in this situation, but mostly I feel sadness for poor Daisy. Clearly someone failed her early on in her life and if they hadn't, perhaps she would've been a lovely horse for you. But as it stands, there's too many nice, reasonably well-behaved horses in the world to have to deal with a dangerous one.


----------



## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

@Monotail in paragraph three you say "No one looses sleep over a dead horse" ??? WHAT??? 

I've lost a LOT of sleep over a dead horse, and know of many others who have lost sleep over them :frown_color:


----------



## 281187 (Sep 19, 2019)

AnitaAnne said:


> @Monotail you say "No one looses sleep over a dead horse" ??? WHAT???
> 
> I've lost a LOT of sleep over a dead horse, and know of many others who have lost sleep over them :frown_color:


I meant more along the lines of not having to constantly worry about where the horse is and how its being treated if the horse in question is dead. Dead is dead, the dead want for nothing and harm no one. Ergo- Instead of selling Daisy and worrying about her fate for the rest of her life, the OP can choose to euthanize her and not have those kinds of worries. 

Obviously if a horse dies and the circumstances behind the death are tragic or the death itself was sudden or unexpected, then yes, I can see and understand people being upset over a dead horse and losing sleep over it. 

That doesn't apply to this situation and only distracts from the main point- What to do with Daisy? And I stand by my statement that the most humane thing that the OP could do for her is to have her put to sleep, given how dangerous of an animal she is.


----------



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^I took it she just meant no one will have to continue worrying about her & what became of her, or her future owners.


----------



## 281187 (Sep 19, 2019)

loosie said:


> ^I took it she just meant no one will have to continue worrying about her & what became of her, or her future owners.


Yes, that's exactly what I was going for. I apologize for any confusion, figures of speech... aren't really my thing, but they usually get the point across (Whatever point I'm trying to make, that is) to other people, so I try to use them.


----------



## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

I think most people with a horse like this really struggle with euthanasia. My rescue horse has the early stages of uveitis. My friend told me I should just put him down, but I'm not comfortable with that. 

It is easy for other people to say euthanize, because they have not cared for the animal and are not emotionally attached. 

My Paso rides just fine. But he has some behavioral issues - he is very anxious about things. He hates bugs and if you put him on pasture without access to either the barn or dry lot he will run the fence during the buggy hours. He's miserable to ride during the summer because the bugs are bad. He head tosses constantly, stomps at his belly, if still attacked, he wants to take off. But there's nothing truly dangerous about him. He's not being mean, he just is super sensitive and can't tolerate the bugs. (And let's face it, the bugs get worse every year since we no longer get any freezing weather and we keep having excess rain). I've had the bomber flies keep up with my galloping horse. They are bad!

He absolutely is not a horse i want to keep. I don't want to have 4 horses on such a small acreage. I rode him this morning, but then I did 5 hours of mucking, spreading the manure, raking hay and other barn chores. I wanted to ride one of the others but ran out of energy and it started raining. 

I have a hard time justifying euthanasia when he's bright eyed and happy. So i keep praying someone will want him. I don't mind keeping him, if it wasn't for the expense and excess work involved. If only i had more land! 

I wish you luck, but it will be very difficult to place a horse like this. That said, i would probably try to rehome the horse. How often is the horse ridden and is it kept stalled? Those 2 things can really contribute to excess energy and bucking. 

There are homes for pasture pets. A sound and healthy companion horse is much easier to place then one that needs medication for health issues. But often people want a calm horse, that is okay with children and not one that bites or kicks. Of course biting and kicking can be corrected with training in some cases. 

I'm not certain your horse is rank and needs euthanasia, perhaps he just needs a job and more training then you can provide. Depending on your riding skills, he may just be more then you can handle. 

There's a difference between a horse that knows how to buck off a rider and does so deliberately, and one that accidentally bucks off a rider. If you pull him from the pasture and go trail riding (when he's only been ridden in a arena), then i can see why you might be having a problem. 

I'm not going to say euthanasia is the wrong choice, but there are many variables to consider. Can you emotionally handle euthanasia? Would your family be comfortable with that? If you sell or give away the horse, are you okay with the horse potentially ending up starved, or in a bad home? What if the horse severely injures someone else? Can you live with that? It is not an easy decision either way. 

I've met some really nice horses that ended up in the wrong home. The percheron cross i had was previously owned by a beginner rider for a short period of time. He threw her off, and her husband was threatening to go shoot the horse for it. That horse passed through 7 homes or so after I had him. Ended up with a kid who decided to ride him bareback on trails (he never liked being ridden bareback). He bolted with her and scared the daylights out of her. He was sold again. I met his new owner and she absolutely loves him. We went riding together and he was perfectly behaved. (I expect he has been sold again as she was going to college soon.)

I think he just ended up with stupid people - even i could tell that he was too powerful for a small 12 yr old to be riding, and he was too green for a beginner. So for various reasons he was cast aside. If you ask that first husband, he felt justified in shooting the horse. In his mind the horse was too dangerous to rehome. 

This horse sounds inappropriate for you and your sister. I would absolutely try to re-home if you can. You don't mention your riding level. Sometimes an experienced rider can stop a buck before it even starts. I've ridden many horses that buck, if entirely depends on how the horse goes about it, as to whether i would label them as dangerous or not. The dangerous ones buck until the rider comes off, or know how to get the rider off. The less dangerous ones, you can see it coming, and stop it from escalating.


----------



## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

I had a appy/TB mare that had been whipped into a corner and continued to be whipped until she came back out at them. 

She was a bit of a nut case. But maybe not her fault. I was told she would buck without provocation, and she did buck randomly it seemed, especially at the beginning. 

She also could set back on the strongest halter (not rope!) and break it in seconds. She was strong! 

To this day I cannot describe the warning she would give before a buck, but something in her head position, or ear position would change ever so slightly before a buck. I learnt to feel when she was going to blow, and redirect her quickly. 

Never a calm ride though! Plus she really didn't care for other horses at all, but was devoted to me. At shows, I had to stay with her or walk her around with me. If I left her at the trailer she would holler until I returned. 

Anyway, I rode her for years, she was my first Dressage horse. Her refusal to be anywhere near another horse led us to Dressage! 

Over time, with consistent handling, she mellowed. It took two years before I could have a whip/crop anywhere near her (because of the prior whipping). But eventually she trusted me enough to not fear the whip. 

She was a good girl for me, but not for other people. After a hock injury, I retired her to broodmare then after having two fillies, she was retired to a pasture pet. 

During all the years I rode her, she would still react with a buck or two to fear inducing things, but most times I could stop it before it happened. Couple of times she did toss me and run off, then would frantically look for me. :smile:

Point is, no I don't think all horses are hopeless, but finding the right fit is so hard!


----------



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

4horses said:


> I think most people with a horse like this really struggle with euthanasia. My rescue horse has the early stages of uveitis. My friend told me I should just put him down, but I'm not comfortable with that.
> 
> It is easy for other people to say euthanize, because they have not cared for the animal and are not emotionally attached.


Yup. Appreciate that fully. I too would try to find the horse a 'good home' first, if I couldn't keep it as a pasture pet, or it wasn't even safe for that. But realistically, good homes for this type are extremely thin on the ground and what I meant was that I'd choose putting it down over just selling it to anyone. BECAUSE I was attached to the horse & didn't want it to suffer any more. If I didn't care, I'd just sell it to the knackers... but here, they will come shoot the horse & take it away, or you can deliver it to them live. I know in your neck of the woods, they get shipped to Mexico for that, so that's also a lot of stress for the beastie.


----------



## Jolien (Aug 19, 2019)

AnitaAnne said:


> I had a appy/TB mare that had been whipped into a corner and continued to be whipped until she came back out at them.
> 
> She was a bit of a nut case. But maybe not her fault. I was told she would buck without provocation, and she did buck randomly it seemed, especially at the beginning.
> 
> ...



yeah, someone that knows horses can match herself with a horse and someone that knows nothing about horses (like me) can get help to be matched with a good horse. My trainer matched me with 3 different horses until we found a horse that was good for me.


----------



## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Need to add, the mare was only 4 yrs old when I got her. Big difference between retraining a 4 yr old and a 15 yr old. 

That 15 yr old belonging to the OP might have physical issues causing her to act up. Sometimes it is really hard to figure out what they are. 

IME, a horse that is good on the ground, but dangerous under saddle has a physical issue. Finding it is the key. 

Also, the OP may just not be capable of riding this mare when she is bucking. A spook-n-buck is IMO, one of the hardest to ride out. My mare did that, and a few times she did unseat me. I too was young then, and could ride most anything. Now I am older, I would not be able to physically ride it out.


----------



## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

I've had a couple of horses that sound identical to your mare. One was losing his vision, the other had kissing spines. Both did this behavior because of the physical issues. The one losing his sight stopped once he lost his sight. The one with the spinal issue did it because 'out of nowhere' she would get crippling pain under saddle. Your horse needs a complete physical exam by an equine clinic capable of doing more than the basic 'farm call'. I would bet there's a physical issue leading to this. 

The kissing spines mare was eventually euthanized. The gelding is now totally blind and a pasture pet at a friend's house where he and another blind pony hang out with a rescued draft horse and a donkey as a motley little crew of the old and infirm who are lounging in the pasture and enjoying life.


----------



## The Equinest (Dec 18, 2019)

May I suggest, before deciding to euthanize or anything of that sort - get a good, thorough vet check. This sounds to me a lot like some cases of kissing spine I've seen, or ulcers. Before deciding anything definite, I'd recommend getting your vet(or several vets) to check her out. Even if you do end up selling her or something, it may add a bit of insight or peace of mind on what could be possibly causing this beyond just personality/neurological issues. I've seen horses with severe neurological issues, but most of the time it's a pain-related issue rather than a neurological one. (Especially since you said she was sweet on the ground, I'd absolutely try to rule out pain first.)


----------



## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

I didn't read anywhere that this horse has had a full vetting.


I didn't read anywhere that this horse has had a trainer riding them.


#1, get this horse vetted. People suck at seeing lame horses, so just because your coach doesn't see anything doesn't mean it's fine. You can't sell this horse without her being vetted anyway.


#2, if she vets, get a good trainer experienced in problem horses, preferably TBs. Do not ride her at all while this trainer is working with her. Full time training, 5 days a week, min of 60 days. Check in with the trainer as to her progress. Yes, this is going to cost money, but it's the best option if you want to sell her. No one wants to buy a rank horse that's putting people in the hospital, especially an older horse who's not trained in anything particular. Your only option to have her sold to a good home is to have her going well under saddle.


This is not going to be an easy horse to sell and there's a good chance she'll end up being passed around if she's sold to the wrong person. If the trainer has trouble with her, then it's an indication she may not be worth the time or money. Retirement, or of she doesn't handle retirement well, euthanasia is always an option. Do not breed her (in case anyone suggests that).


----------



## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

This horse is not safe for you to ride and handle. this horse could have physical problems, training problems or a combination of both. Either way, if I were you I would not unload this problem on to anybody else, I would not feel comfortable doing that to someone who could potentially get really badly hurt. But it's your horse and up to you.


----------



## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

loosie said:


> There could be a myriad of physical reasons the horse is behaving like this & it's not clear whether any of the possibilities have been checked out/treated. There could be a number of reasons mentally/trainingwise the horse is like this, and it sounds like, assuming there's nothing physical behind it that's been disregarded, if you've been 'trying' for a year & a half, you (respectfully) don't have what is needed to get her through it. Therefore, unless you have the time & money, to rule out/treat any physical probs & find her a good trainer to rehabilitate her, it is definitely time to call it quits.
> 
> BUT I would NOT sell her, unless you can find someone who is very experienced dealing with dangerous horses(pref not a 'CA style bozo' either), and will sort her out, physically & mentally. Not a likely prospect, even if she's tried & tested 'star material'. Selling her on to just anyone is only likely to cause her & her new owners further damage. Selling her at auction is either going to do the same, or cause her days to end in a stressful truck drive to mexico to be killed. Therefore I'd either keep her as a 'paddock ornament' if you can afford, and if she behaves acceptably & safely on the ground, or get a vet to come put her down. For her sake.


My thoughts exactly. I agree with this.

She may be acting this way because of pain or discomfort. When you mentioned she nips while being tacked, it screamed ulcers or poor saddle fit to me. Have any of these things been looked into? From your post, OP, it doesn't sound like it. Most often horses with these issues are marked as 'bad' or they have 'behavioral issues'. 

It could be anything, but I wouldn't just sell her. Then she become someone else's problem...there is always a reason they act this way. Your decision ultimately, but I personally wouldn't sell her just to get rid of her because of her issues...figure out her issues first (is it ulcers, poor saddle fit, pain, neurological, etc?) If you cannot do that, then maybe euthanizing her is best so she is not suffering, or keeping her as a pasture pet, I certainly wouldn't work her or ride her if she's acting this way. Just my two cents. Wish you the best in your decision.


----------



## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

As a couple others have mentioned, I did not see any reference to an actual vet check. Just from reading the original post, my gut reaction is something physical is wrong with this horse. 

I would address that before deciding what to do. 

I would not even attempt to sell this horse before having a vet assess her. 

I also would not even think of having this mare bred. 

Depending on what the vet check shows would help you decide how to proceed. 

Keeping her as a pasture ornament might be the best case scenario if you can afford it. I have one gelding here who I bought off the track. He is not sound...and although I thought of selling him a few times I know what his fate would be. So here he stays until the time he either passes or is too sore and I will have him humanely euthanized. He raced (likely unsound) until he was 8 years old. I figure the least he deserves is a good retirement where he doesn't have anything to worry about.


----------



## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I only read your first post and didn't read the rest so forgive me if I'm not in sync with the conversation. I think you have some options that you need to think long and hard on.

1 - Vet check for pain and vision
2 - Send her to a trainer that specializes in problem horses
3 - Contact a rescue, you may even be able to get a trade-in towards a rescue from their facility if they are willing to work a deal with you.
4 - Sell her but be an honest seller.
5 - Give her away or donate her to a vet school or college.

Those are the only things I can think of right off the top of my head. I do think selling is a good option at this point because while you love her, she isn't the right fit for your family.


After I posted I skimmed the above posts. I don't know what your level of skills are or your training abilities but I wouldn't write her off completely. There could be someone with expertise in this sort of behavior that can turn this horse around. Many rescues actually work with great trainers and can get the right training for her. AND, if they can't, then they can make the decision that she's not safe and either keep her at the rescue or let her go in a humane way. From what you've said - I can't tell if she's dangerous or in need of training.


----------



## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Texasbby said:


> I've got a 15 hand fourteen year old ottb mare that I'm seriously considering selling.
> 
> And so, the thought has popped up before and is back even stronger. Maybe it's time to sell.
> 
> ...


Since you came on here asking, I think you know you need to sell. You are scared of her and the horse knows it, and you are just going to get injured again (or your sister). You might love her dearly but NO HORSE is worth getting injured. You might sit around thinking of her during the day, but I assure you the horse is NOT sitting around thinking of you. I've been there and done that, and I do not have the time of day for a horse that's out to hurt me. There's too many other nice ones out there to choose from. 

If this were a YOUNGER horse, I might say that there might be someone out there willing to work with her. But she has had 15 years of bad habits engrained into her. That will NOT be easy to fix. And even if she does get going okay, she might never be trustworthy. You could try to find a home for her with full disclosure of her issues. But that will be a big *IF* you can find someone to take her. 

It might break your heart to think it, but I'm also going to suggest euthanasia as an option to consider *IF* you can't find anyone to take her.

Would it be worth it to spend money on her to send her full time to a trainer? Would your money be better spent on buying a new horse that is suitable for you?
Would it be worth it to spend money on a full vet exam, to see if there is a pain reason for her behavioral issues. Again, should that instead be spent toward a different horse?
I don't know the answers to those questions for you, because that's for you to decide, but it is something to consider. Some folks might say its callous or cold-hearted to consider only money but let's be real -- horses are expensive. And when you have one that is dangerous (whether it's lack of training, or a bad attitude, bucking/rearing/biting is still dangerous), you have to think about it's its worth to spend the money to investigate or just cut your losses.



cbar said:


> Keeping her as a pasture ornament might be the best case scenario if you can afford it.


Since OP has said:

_"She has bit me numerous times, kicks out at me and has had an on and off problem with refusing to lunge. She's reared at me, spun around to try and kick me etc."_

I would not keep said horse as a pasture pet. JMO


----------



## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

So. Here's the deal. I too have a Second Hand Horse that came from, most likely, a very abusive situation. He had severe PTSD and extreme distrust issues. He was hot, he was reactive, and he still is.

He doesn't have a mean bone in him - the one time he's hurt me was my own stupid fault.

He has taken ALL the time I have to get him to the point I trust him and he trusts me. It's taken nearly four years... and he still has times he's feeling a little 'extra'.

Would I do it again? For him I would. Do I have time to spend on other horses? Not much... so I've sold a few other second hand horses in the meantime that thought they would have a few 'extra' moments, or were very insecure horses, or very likely to get herd bound (Sarge), or were pig headed products of being spoiled... genuinely turned into rude monsters.

Not so much because I couldn't unravel their knots, or sort out their puzzle... but because I already had one horse like that. I didn't want to fool with more horses that were soured because of other people's problems.

Maybe I'm getting older, or maybe I'm learning to value my time with my horses more, IDK, but these days I'm in the Sell Em group. Giving me a headache and don't want to be worth my time? You're outta here. Rude, disrespectful, or consciously dangerous? You're outta here (Sally, Outback's momma taught me that). 

If I can't throw a saddle on them after being in the pasture for a month... or two months... or sometimes three... and not have drama and a-holery, they're outta here.

Moral of the story is - Second Hand Horses take a lot of effort. I'm not saying it's not worth doing - it is. Trigger taught me that. I found a friend and a trusted companion in him... could I find that again with another troubled horse? Maybe... probably... but the thing is, I do not have _time_ for it... and I don't think you do either.


----------



## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

beau159 said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I only mentioned this as OP had said that the horse tried to bite her when she was being saddled - figured if she wasn't trying to ride the horse, then ground manners were not so bad since she alluded to her as being very sweet. 

At any rate, it was a suggestion if the OP has the means and the money to keep a horse that cannot be ridden, but was emotionally attached to this mare.


----------



## Texasbby (Mar 26, 2015)

So sorry in advance for not responding sooner. I've been going through a lot. 

I have had her fully vetted and she's perfectly fine health wise. 

I had a trainer out a few times to work with her after I broke my ribs as well as had my coach work with her on numerous occasions. 
She never did anything stupid under saddle with either of them, and honestly it's rare for her to act out under saddle. 
She's been pushy on the ground but they are very skillfull and don't have a lot of problems with her. 

When I have worked with her on a consistent basis she is great horse. She's testy and overly smart, that's her nature. 

I feel the main issue right now is that she's too smart and I don't have the time or energy needed to constantly restart her. 
She's been restarted on numerous occasions due to weather, my schedule etc. 

She's not a bad horse. She's a bored horse with too much energy that did a bad thing because I wasint consistently working with her. 

I have been working with her more, being stricter with her and her ground manners have been a lot better but I don't dare ride her as I'm a nervous rider to begin with. Due to past experiences, I had a young horse decide rearingwas a good way too get me off her back and so she would rear until I came off. I fear that because Daisy is smart this might happen with her if I ride her again. 

I've decided, with my coachs help, that rehoming her is the best decision. I'm simply no longer the right match for her. 
I believe with the right person, right training and lots of time she could be a great horse again but with my working nine hours monday-friday and only having time for her on the weekends she will only continue to go back on her training and become dangerous. 

I can't euthanize her. She's family to me and she has a lot of potential. 


I'm going to continue working on her ground manners and will be finding her a new home when the weather gets better. 
There's a local ottb rescue I talked to that has agreed to help when the time comes. 

I've simply been keeping her due to my own reasons. I don't want to say goodbye to her but it's unfair too keep her when we aren't a good fit. 

Thank you for all the help ❤❤❤


----------



## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Best of luck. This is the right decision. However, I wouldn't wait. You admit yourself that you don't have time to work with her so she's not going to improve. I realize it's harder to re-home a horse in the winter, but you should not expect to make much money off her at this point. Let her go at a low price as is, be up front and honest about all her flaws (and her qualities). The longer you wait, the harder it will be for everyone concerned. You may not sell her right away, but then again, you might.


----------



## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

I just wanted to say that I agree with @Acadianartist about being very clear about her flaws. You care about this horse, and you know she has great potential. She needs to go to someone who can deal with her issues, or at least thinks they can. If she doesn't, then her future might not be so bright.

I also agree you shouldn't be thinking about the money, even though it's hard not to. Better to sell her for less to someone who can really work with her, than for what you think she's worth, to someone who can't. 

My two cents.


----------



## Texasbby (Mar 26, 2015)

I don't care about money at all. I really just want her to be used, not waste away as a paddock pet. 

Was thinking of getting her ground manners under control to make her easier to rehome, I do understand maybe it would be best to just rehome asap but I thought it would be best to work on her a bit more. Maybe that's unfair to her though. 

Will keep you all updated 😊


----------



## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

How schooled is it horse? What level does she do? It will be a lot easier to find a rider willing to take her on if she had training above 2nd, for example.


----------



## 281187 (Sep 19, 2019)

Texasbby said:


> I can't euthanize her. She's family to me and she has a lot of potential.


I might come across as a bit harsh here, but I'm going to say my piece anyway. 

_You need to let go of that line of thinking._ 


If you continue with that "Fall madly in-love with every horse you buy and *have* to save them all at any cost" mindset, you're only setting yourself up for further failures. You need to learn how to cut your losses ahead of time so this sort of thing doesn't happen again. 


This mare has tormented you, your family and even seriously injured at least two different people for nearly two years.

And you've just admitted that you've had a vet check her out and nothing is physically wrong with her! 

She's not "energetic", "too smart" or "testy". She's an ill-tempered animal who apparently can't retain her training and needs to constantly be kept on top of by her rider and tuned up by trainers. 


It's no secret that North America has a bit of a surplus horse problem and with countless numbers of perfectly nice and sweet-tempered animals that exist out there, it's -Quite frankly- increasingly hard to justify dumping so much time, energy and emotions into any animal that doesn't have a good attitude or is willing to shape up and become a good partner.


So give her to the OTTB rescue, be done with her and for your next horse, set a *firm* limit on how much bad behavior you're willing to deal with. If that horse doesn't prove to be a nice, reasonably mannered animal at the end of whatever deadline (IE: Three weeks, six months, a year after buying it- etc and so forth) you set, then cut your losses and get rid of it also. 

We all only get one-shot at life and it's too short to be spent miserable because of who or what we _choose_ to spend it with.


----------



## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Texasbby said:


> So sorry in advance for not responding sooner. I've been going through a lot.
> 
> I have had her fully vetted and she's perfectly fine health wise.
> 
> ...


Sometimes, just making a decision helps one focus. IMO a OTTB rescue is a reasonable option and gives the mare a chance. Nice that they are willing to help. 

Hopefully you can find a horse in the future that is better suited to your needs and abilities.


----------



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Texasbby said:


> I have had her fully vetted and she's perfectly fine health wise.


Appreciate that she may have been vetted, but has she seen a chiropractor or such? Even if a vet is very good, if they have not specialised in bodywork, they often do not have a lot of knowledge there. Just like a human GP may not be a specialist in physiotherapy... or whatever.



> She's been pushy on the ground but they are very skillfull and don't have a lot of problems with her. ...
> I feel the main issue right now is that she's too smart and I don't have the time or energy needed to constantly restart her.


She does not need to be 'restarted'. She does not need a regular schedule. But you are right about consistent handling being a big thing, and if you don't have the skill/knowledge to train her properly both on the ground & in the saddle, that is absolutely a reason why she may be still acting up with you & may well get worse - after all, sounds like the behaviours have worked with you.



> She's not a bad horse. She's a bored horse with too much energy that did a bad thing because I wasint consistently working with her.


That is absolutely a valuable thing to recognise. And of course, you know her, we don't, can only give our opinions based on how we imagine it from your words.



> I can't euthanize her. She's family to me and she has a lot of potential.


Assuming she was a 'bad horse' I, and I believe others put forward that option, for _her_ sake as much as for others, as a more humane option than just passing her on...



> I'm going to continue working on her ground manners and will be finding her a new home when the weather gets better.
> There's a local ottb rescue I talked to that has agreed to help when the time comes.


Good decision I reckon. Just beware giving her to another lesser experienced/skilled person.


----------



## Animalia (Nov 10, 2019)

Texasbby said:


> So sorry in advance for not responding sooner. I've been going through a lot.
> 
> I have had her fully vetted and she's perfectly fine health wise.
> 
> ...



You are smarter and more perceptive than you may be giving yourself credit for! I think this is a very wise decision. I believe it's dangerous for people who have never met a person and their horse to recommend euthanasia SO strongly as I've seen here. There's always the chance that the OP is writing in an over-emotional state, exaggerating issues or under-exaggerating issues. 


Two things I never saw anyone mention--forgive me if someone did--I didn't read EVERY single post fully. 

1. Sometimes you can sell a horse like this to a trainer--not just pay to get her trained, but actually sell her TO the trainer, so it's their horse. Some trainers like a project. Or, like car mechanics or real estate rehabbers--they like to buy a "fixer upper" cheap and then put the work in themselves and sell on the new "upgrade" for a profit. Your horse could easily be one of these for a trainer. And some will drive a bit to pick her up--so don't restrict yourself to only local trainers. 

2. The match-up! Yes--as you said, not every horse is good for every rider. Just as not all humans get along , not all horses/humans get along either. I am a dog trainer/behavior expert. I know that some people with certain personalities, should not own some dogs with certain personalities--will not be a good fit and both will be unhappy. 

I also know how extremely sensitive horses are--more than dogs even. And some are more than others. I know--I have one! I'm leasing a horse that like a mind reading empath! I'm not allowed to have fears, anxieties, sadness, anger, etc without her picking up on it and acting up. It's a pain! People on here suggested I get rid of her. And she is not even dangerous. Just a bit of a jerk in small ways, while I'm riding--sometimes. Just like you, I feel this horse is reacting to me personally--since little girls ride her with absolutely no problems and she's bombproof when her owner rides her. I'm only 3 months in, so if I can't get our relationship on better footing, I may have to consider finding a different horse. So, all I'm saying is--kudos to you for realizing your horse may be reacting badly with you (and your sister), but could be fine with someone else. I trust that you will be sure to let anyone who's interested know all the problems. And hopefully you can find a "trainer" type of person to buy her. Emotions have a huge impact on horses. The more you are "angst-ing" over the decision to keep her or not--the more she'll act up. LOL It's so annoying! 



I applaud you for your decision to give her a chance at being re-homed and a chance at a good life. We all deserve that.


----------



## Texasbby (Mar 26, 2015)

I've been in contact with Daisy's previous owners. They worked with her on the track and bought her when her racing career was over. They had to sell her about six years ago due to having no time, they were going back to school etc. 
They are now in a good place time wise and money wise to take on another horse so they have agreed to take Daisy at the end of this week. They are both ecstatic to have her back. I'm happy she will be somewhere safe in which she will be loved, have lots of horse friends and space to run around. I will even be able to visit her which is super nice. 

Then it hit me as much as I love her and will miss her it's going to be a really weird change in routine for me. I think about her all the time, and It's been a very long time in which I've been without a horse. I'm not too sure how I'm going to cope. I'm going to really miss owning a horse. I'm thinking of maybe taking the odd lesson. Do you guys have any tips? Advice on how to deal with being without a horse while I'm in school for a year? 

Thanks for all your help


----------



## txgirl (Jul 9, 2010)

I am very happy to hear she will be going to a great place! I know it will be an adjustment , but are there any local barns where you could work for lessons?


----------



## sharon1927 (Aug 17, 2015)

Texasbby said:


> I've been in contact with Daisy's previous owners. They worked with her on the track and bought her when her racing career was over. They had to sell her about six years ago due to having no time, they were going back to school etc.
> They are now in a good place time wise and money wise to take on another horse so they have agreed to take Daisy at the end of this week. They are both ecstatic to have her back. I'm happy she will be somewhere safe in which she will be loved, have lots of horse friends and space to run around. I will even be able to visit her which is super nice.
> 
> Then it hit me as much as I love her and will miss her it's going to be a really weird change in routine for me. I think about her all the time, and It's been a very long time in which I've been without a horse. I'm not too sure how I'm going to cope. I'm going to really miss owning a horse. I'm thinking of maybe taking the odd lesson. Do you guys have any tips? Advice on how to deal with being without a horse while I'm in school for a year?
> ...


I am happy to hear that Daisy's previous owners will be happy to take her back. That is wonderful news!

My husband and I have owned Thoroughbreds for the past 15 years. I have worked with many OTTBs and I love retraining them for new careers. That being said, there was one OTTB in particular who made me feel the way you have been feeling. I absolutely adored him. He was beautiful, elegant, an incredible mover, and very intelligent. While he did not intentionally do anything bad, he was extremely spooky...the spookiest horse I have ever worked with or been around. He truly did not have a mean bone in his body, but when something scared him (real or imagined), he would lose his mind and it's like I ceased to exist at that moment. Rides on him were NOT fun at all. We would be trotting along peacefully and all of a sudden he would startle and scoot to the side super fast. I felt like a cartoon character hovering in the air after my horse had disappeared right out from under me! Needless to say, my confidence was just wilting away with every ride on him. And what's worse, I had three other horses at the time and it was making me nervous to ride THEM...and they were not spooky at all and never did anything to make me distrust them. 

I knew in my heart that my very spooky gelding was not a good match for me, but I felt responsible for him. I did not want to let him go. I felt like I would be letting him down if I sold him. But at the same time, I felt very strongly that with a more experienced, confident rider, he could be a great horse for someone. I agonized over it for about a year and a half, maybe two years. During that time I continued to work with him every single day. We did tons of groundwork, desensitizing, and hacked around my farm. It did not make much difference in his behavior. I sent him to a professional hunter/jumper trainer in my area and he was better for them as long as they gave him a job that kept him VERY focused and busy (specifically, jumping). We also discovered he was not quite as spooky outdoors as he was in an indoor arena. But since I was a competitive dressage rider in New York at the time, I knew a jumping horse who preferred outdoor obstacles was not a good fit for me. 

I finally made the decision to prepare him for sale. I felt awful about it...until an older couple came to look at him. They were lifelong horse people and were looking to add an OTTB to their herd of three. They were trail riders with no interest in competing. I was nervous about having older people trail ride this horse. I mean, was he going to spook at the first fallen leaf or plastic bag and dump one of them? I remember watching them try him out - first the wife and then the husband - and my husband and I actually looked at each other and said, "We're going to get sued." (It's funny to me now, but it was not funny then!) But as we watched them ride, we realized how good our horse was doing. He totally took care of those people, especially the husband. It's like he knew he was carrying precious cargo and had better be on his best behavior. Plus, all my groundwork and desensitizing work with the horse paid off big time. The couple watched in awe as I demonstrated how the horse would just stand there while I flapped plastic bags all around him and slapped a whip on the ground close to his feet. They also ooohed and ahhhhed when I unsnapped his lead and did some liberty work with him. At that moment, instead of feeling sad about letting him go, I felt incredibly proud of how far he had come with me. He might not have been the horse for me, but I had made him into the perfect horse for this particular couple. They fell in love with him that night and after a pre-purchase exam by their vet, they bought him. A couple years have gone by and they absolutely ADORE him. I have kept in touch with the wife and she tells me about trailering him to various state parks and all the different trails they have explored together. It makes my heart happy to hear how well he has worked out for them. The horse is obviously much happier being a trail horse than he would have been competing in dressage with me.

I have another success story for you. A good friend of mine had an Oldenberg mare who the entire boarding stable deemed crazy. My friend was terrified to lead her to and from the pasture, let alone ride her. She had a (supposedly) professional trainer riding the mare every single day, but the mare just got worse and worse. She would buck, bolt, rear up...you name it. She dumped the trainer and broke her wrist, she kicked out and shattered mirrors in the indoor arena, and on and on. Some of the other boarders felt strongly that she should be euthanized. Finally my friend realized how much her confidence had eroded and she decided to try to sell the mare. She ended up trading her to a professional rider/trainer who enjoys working with challenging horses. In exchange, my friend ended up with an older OTTB gelding who turned out to be worth his weight in gold! His conformation is not the best but he has a big heart and has an amazing temperament. And the mare? Her new owner LOVES her. I have seen videos of the new owner/trainer riding her and she looks like a completely different horse. 

So I think you are doing the right thing for all concerned.

As far as being horseless, I would suggest the occasional lesson on a reliable, trained school horse. After what you have been through, I think some confidence building might be in order. I wish you all the best! :smile:


----------



## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

That is great to hear. It's good that you know them and she's not just going to some random place. You know she will be loved and cared for. 

Will you be able to go visit her sometimes? That would be nice. Maybe take some lessons at a local barn, for fun. Or volunteer in exchange for some lessons maybe? I wish you the best of luck!


----------



## Texasbby (Mar 26, 2015)

sharon1927 said:


> Texasbby said:
> 
> 
> > I've been in contact with Daisy's previous owners. They worked with her on the track and bought her when her racing career was over. They had to sell her about six years ago due to having no time, they were going back to school etc.
> ...



Thank you for this 💗 I really needed to hear something like this today. 

I'm more then happy that her past owners are going to be taking her. They love her to bits and Daisy will have other ottb friends and two big fields to run in which she needs. 

I just feel like a big part of my life is ending. She's all I've been thinking about for the year and a half I've owned her. She's my family. I struggle a lot with my mental health and it's been amazing having her to keep me going, even when she annoys me.😅 I still need to get up and work hard to make sure she has a good life. 

It's just going to be a big change for me. I think it would be am easier change if I could get another horse right away but Imma be horseless for the next year or so while I'm In school. I don't even know if I will have the time or money for a horse of my own after school. I work nine hours 5 days a week and rent where I live is pricy. I guess being an adult just really sucks. Lol 

Our current barn owner is incredible though and has agreed to help me gain my confidence back on a couple of her lesson horses. Will be tricky finding the time but I can't imagine getting rid of horses completely.


----------



## Texasbby (Mar 26, 2015)

PoptartShop said:


> That is great to hear. It's good that you know them and she's not just going to some random place. You know she will be loved and cared for.
> 
> Will you be able to go visit her sometimes? That would be nice. Maybe take some lessons at a local barn, for fun. Or volunteer in exchange for some lessons maybe? I wish you the best of luck!



I will be able to visit her which is nice. 😊 I'm glad I won't be completely looosing her in that way. It's just going to be weird not having her around. 

The barn owner where I'm currently st is great, she's agreed to help me gain my confidence back. I used to actually work for her but had to give that up as I had no time. I'm hoping to take lessons in one of her horses for the next little while


----------



## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

@Texasbby - I'm glad you found a good situation for her and that you'll be able to maintain some contact. 

Also happy that you will be taking lessons. I would like to be able to myself.


----------



## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Texasbby said:


> I will be able to visit her which is nice. 😊 I'm glad I won't be completely looosing her in that way. It's just going to be weird not having her around.
> 
> The barn owner where I'm currently st is great, she's agreed to help me gain my confidence back. I used to actually work for her but had to give that up as I had no time. I'm hoping to take lessons in one of her horses for the next little while


This sounds like a great solution. You will miss her, but once you see her there, you may be content. It is hard to let go when we love them :hug:


----------



## NeverDullRanch (Nov 11, 2009)

Sounds like she could be in serious pain. You'd be doing her a favor to have her spine looked at as so many OTTB have damage from being raced too young.


----------



## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Hadn't come back to this thread for a while, but I'm so glad to see you've found a solution. I know it's painful right now, but you are doing the right thing. Do try to squeeze in the odd lesson. Better to have a little bit of horse time in your life and be able to focus on school than to be stressed and not have time for anything. You have the rest of your life to have horses. It's never too late. Go visit her if you really miss her, but I suspect you'll find it gets easier, especially since you know she's ok. This is a very mature decision on your part, and it shows that you are going to make a very responsible horse owner again someday, when the timing is better. Putting her best interests before your own is hard, but a sign of great horsemanship.


----------

