# Eventing Critique Please!



## MightyEventer (Sep 28, 2010)

anyone?? :/


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## FoxyRoxy1507 (Jul 15, 2008)

Looks like ur getting left behind the motion a tad bit and therefore ur leg and whole body are back a bit too far


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## MightyEventer (Sep 28, 2010)

thanks! ive been working on finding the right time to "jump" with him, i either get left behind or get ahead of him, so frustrating! hahah


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## FoxyRoxy1507 (Jul 15, 2008)

try working in two point for a while and let him push you out of the saddle. im totally right there w u.. my big eventer jumps like a powerhouse so i have trouble staying w his jump sometimes as well


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## MightyEventer (Sep 28, 2010)

FoxyRoxy1507 said:


> try working in two point for a while and let him push you out of the saddle. im totally right there w u.. my big eventer jumps like a powerhouse so i have trouble staying w his jump sometimes as well


ive heard of that, ill give it a shot! thanks


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## wannahorse22 (Dec 27, 2009)

I am not a proffesional at critique, but it seems as though you are not getting at of your saddle enough for the 2-point. Anyone agree??


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## FoxyRoxy1507 (Jul 15, 2008)

shes out of the saddle enuff for the fences she's jumping, in eventing u want to be as close to the saddle as possible w/o being in it


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## wannahorse22 (Dec 27, 2009)

Oh, well I learned something new! I am a hunter/jumper, so i didnt know that  haha. I do agree that you should practice on not being left behind. It helps me if I count the strides to the jump. Try it out


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## MightyEventer (Sep 28, 2010)

wannahorse22 said:


> Oh, well I learned something new! I am a hunter/jumper, so i didnt know that  haha. I do agree that you should practice on not being left behind. It helps me if I count the strides to the jump. Try it out


haha yeah hunters its good to be outta the tack, but for xc its more galloping so you dont wanna get popped out of the tack over the fences, i appreciate you comment though


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## StormyBlues (Dec 31, 2008)

You definatly roach your shoulders, try to be flat in the back. My phone only gives me stills al that's the only other thing I notice that hasn't been mentioned. I'll be able to look at the video. I think you need to not get left behind before you move up to training. What Jim Graham taught me was that you should count your strides. There's a video of me riding an counting which explains it better than I can. I also expains the seats that the eventer needs to be sucessful. I def think you'd learn alot from it (I definatly did!!!). I can link you when I get home but you can look up Jim Graham and David Adamo clinic: show jumping day. You also get to watch me fail epically, so yeah  good luck!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MightyEventer (Sep 28, 2010)

StormyBlues said:


> You definatly roach your shoulders, try to be flat in the back. My phone only gives me stills al that's the only other thing I notice that hasn't been mentioned. I'll be able to look at the video. I think you need to not get left behind before you move up to training. What Jim Graham taught me was that you should count your strides. There's a video of me riding an counting which explains it better than I can. I also expains the seats that the eventer needs to be sucessful. I def think you'd learn alot from it (I definatly did!!!). I can link you when I get home but you can look up Jim Graham and David Adamo clinic: show jumping day. You also get to watch me fail epically, so yeah  good luck!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks! yeah i have improved a little from when these were taken, i really gotta get some updated ones, i agree with what you say completely, i counted my strides when i was schooling the training course and it really helped...plus i was hauling to them cause it was our first time jumping that height for xc so i think i actually "rode" mouse and focused on striding/lines/position/etc. I appreciate your help


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## StormyBlues (Dec 31, 2008)

here's the video


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## MightyEventer (Sep 28, 2010)

thanks!!


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## haleylvsshammy (Jun 29, 2010)

I pretty much agree with everyone else who has commented.

In the video: "CORNER!" haha


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Let me tell you - *in Eventing, it is FAR BETTER to be left behind, than it is to be jumping ahead of your horse.*

Remember that. Yes, it is not ideal, but it is much better to be behind, than infront of. I was taught that by David O'Connor, Dorothy Crowell, and other Upper Level Eventers whom I have had the priveldge to clinic under. 

These fences are NOT forgiving, and if you jump ahead of your horse at the base of the fence, your horse could do something to cause you to topple over and hit the fence or hurt yourself. Jumping ahead, ubalances you and your position leaving you vulnerable. 


This picture here, you aren't that bad actually. You are slightly behind your horses motion, but you know what - it's not that big of a deal. The only thing you are impeding is your horses front end, by your lack of release...but that's because you got left behind. So what. I would wrather see that, than you lurching ahead.











The second picture, you look pretty good, aside from your lower leg. But what happened here is you pinched your knees, blocking the natural weight flow from your upper body down into your lower. You must remember, your heels are your anchor, and the only way they can do their job, is if you allow them to. 

You must allow the natural weight flow to occur, that happens no matter if you are in your tack or standing on the ground.....the weight from your head, down through your body into your heels. The moment you pinch your knees, you've blocked that flow from occuring. You can no longer anchor yourself in your tack through your heels, you can no longer solidify yourself through your lower body - because it is blocked from being able to do its job.

I highly recommend you do ALOT of 2 point work, but functional 2 point work. Where your seat just slightly hovers over your saddle, your tail bone is slightly tucked under you, your core is activated, your body is over your feet. Upper body tall, chest opened and you imagine yourself WRAPPED around your horses girth. 

Remember, you are around your horse, not ontop. Get your legs at the girth, heels absorbing your bodies weight and you stay OVER your horses center of gravity. 











Here, you look good again - try to straiten your lower back...but you really need to focus on solidifying your lower leg. Great release, you are over your horses center, you are looking up and your horse looks happy and content doing his job.











And you look fabulous here! Again, your lower leg:










I think you are very capeable of going training, but I say really focus on solidying your lower leg. You are pretty bang on for staying center, and your releases are great and you are not lurching yourself out of your tack - if you were lurching yourself out of your tack and jumping ahead..I'd be worried - but I see nothing here that wont hinder you...cept your lower leg..lol.

The video - again, you look great! Just work on your lower leg. What I saw between fences, was your seat going up and down....instead, you want your knee's opening and closing.

As described to me by Upper Level Eventers I've cliniced with......is imagine your lower body hinges, like the folds of an acordian.

So when you open an accordian, what happens? The folds spread open right. The angles get wider. What happens when you close the accordian? The folds close and the angles come closer to one another.

That is what you want to do with your knees. So you want to be in your functional two point, and every up stride your horse does, your lower leg is saying "Come up to me" by picking him up into your seat. While that happens, your knees close and open. Close and open. Down stride, your knees open, up stride, your knees close.

So instead of your seat going up and down - you want it to be your knee's.

You and your horse are a great pair!


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## MightyEventer (Sep 28, 2010)

MIEventer, thank you for your detailed critique, i agree, my leg is my major flaw, me and my trainer are working very hard on fixing it, haha its one of my worst habits, and for the accordian...i never thought of it that way, thank you for your time!


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

You are moe than welcome. Remember - you wont be successful if you continue to block the flow with your knee's. 

Open the knees, sink into your heels, get your inner calf on the side of your horse, leg at girth, and remember that you are wrapped around your horse, not just ontop.

You'll get it. I have to continuously work on my lower leg. The moment you stop working on it, you lose it again. You have to always keep the muscle memory there.


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## MightyEventer (Sep 28, 2010)

Thanks


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## ladybugsgirl (Aug 12, 2009)

I guess my only advice is your back looks rounded. Someone once told me to push your shoulderblades together.


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## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

Stormy- Thanks for sharing that video! I love they way they teach. And you did great. I once ran over one of George Morris' protege's in a clinic doing that same thing. Gymnastics to a halt and my horse was like I don't think so and he had to jump out of the way. But the next time around we square halted 3 strides after and I've had a much better position ever since. It's amazing what you can learn in a clinic!


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

In the first photo, you are not out of the tack enough and are behind the motion. 

Second photo, lower leg has slipped back slightly, out of the tack exactly the right amount, beautiful release. Horse has a big, airy, scopey jump. Would like to see him be more economical and use himself better. 

Third photo, lost your lower leg more, and in trying to maintain balance, have really rounded your back. Same critique of the horse.

Fourth photo, same as third, but not as pronounced. 

It's appropriate to take a defensive postion/deep seat over a fence that's a drop or steeply downhill, a technical combination or into or out of water. On a straightforward fence on flat ground, classic forward seat is all that's required. 

I would suggest working on really solidfying your lower leg position before moving up a level. It is going to be a challenge considering your horse's jumping style. I would recommend building lots of complicated/interesting grids in the ring and jump through really focusing on keeping your leg at the girth. Adding scary or spooking elements to provoke your horse's big airy jump so you can learn to stay with it in a controlled setting is also a good idea. Working on the flat and through low grids without stirrups is a standard recommendation for a loose leg in the air. 

As someone who's competed in hunters/jumpers and eventing, I dislike people making excuses for postion faults based on their discipline. Just because a lot of hunter riders stand up out of the tack and perch doesn't make it correct or acceptable, and just because a lot of eventers have a roached back doesn't make it correct or acceptable. Good position is good position, and good riding is good riding.

Edit: Sorry to be repetitive, I missed the whole second page of this thread before posting.


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## MightyEventer (Sep 28, 2010)

maura, i agree with my leg and everything you say, however, i always thought my horse used him pretty well, i dont get how you think he jumps airy...explain that thought please?

and my im not using my discipline quite as an excuse, im just saying that for xc you dont want to release like crazy and other things like that. I know good riding is good riding but for again, in each discipline there a few points that change position a little and the ideal "look" alters


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## StormyBlues (Dec 31, 2008)

No problem sharing the video  There's about 4 more on my chanel (Dressage and XC) on youtube if you're interested!

I wouldn't say that you don't want to release alot on cross country. Some jumps need it. Like uphill jumps or bigger spreads. You need the abilities to be able to do anything over any jump in this sport.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Mighty, 

What I meant by "airy" and "economical" is that your horse overjumps with his body but doesn't necessarily bother to fold his legs neatly. A horse that makes the appropriate effort over a fence, and tucks his front and hind end tightly is "economical" - conserves energy.

Your horse has tons of scope and can probably jump a much bigger fence, but he needs to learn to jump *efficiently* - jump from an appropriate spot, make an arc over the fence that allows him to clear it by 3 or so inches rather than *feet*, and fold his legs tightly to make this possible. 

Of your four photos, the first three show your horse jumping very big, not even bothering to lift his forearm to horizontal, and loose below the knee. The fourth shows a more appropriate spot, arc and a tighter front end -- more what you want. But he could be much tighter and quicker with his front end. 

Why does this matter? 

As you move up the levels, you'll confront related distances between fences and technical combinations - bounces and one strides, options that require you to do a short two stride or a long one. If your horse takes off long, jumps huge and lands halfway between the fences in a one stride, that's a problem. You need to be able to reliably predict how big his jumping arc will be and where it will take him. And as the courses get longer and tougher, you want a horse that doesn't waste a lot of energy with exuberant overjumping but conserves it for the long haul and stadium after that long haul. 

I would much rather jump *your* horse than one that's lazy, relaxed and takes a good feel of the top of every fence and rail - "jumping by Braille." However, the ideal event horse is bold, careful and efficient.

HTH


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## MightyEventer (Sep 28, 2010)

hmm ok

and stormyblues, i agree with you saying that for some jumps we need a bigger release


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## StormyBlues (Dec 31, 2008)

Maura, I never thought of all of that, conserving energy and such, but that makes so much sense! Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge!


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## Snookeys (Sep 23, 2010)

Release a bit more. In one, your release was good, but your arms were extended too far from your body... unfortunately, it was your body that was in the wrong place, not your arms lol ;] Oh and try not to arch your back too much. Good job and good luck!


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

I have little to add to the excellent comments from MIE and Maura. One thing I might add is that your saddle slips pretty far back while jumping. This will really cause you to be behind the motion. It is almost impossible to not fall behind when this happens. Your horse appears to be quite uphill in build. I would highly suggest you try a hunting breastplate or some other method of holding your saddle in position.


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## MightyEventer (Sep 28, 2010)

Allison Finch said:


> I have little to add to the excellent comments from MIE and Maura. One thing I might add is that your saddle slips pretty far back while jumping. This will really cause you to be behind the motion. It is almost impossible to not fall behind when this happens. Your horse appears to be quite uphill in build. I would highly suggest you try a hunting breastplate or some other method of holding your saddle in position.



if you are talking about a breastplate similiar to this one...













you cant see in the pictures since they are blurry but i do have on one for my running martingale attachment, my horse is 17.0-1hh at the withers and 16.2-3hh at his back so his withers definately dont help with the situation even his custom made saddle slides a little back :/


EDIT: i didnt realize that picture was gonna be so big! sorryy bout that


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Then you might try a jumper breastplate as they are more aggressive at keeping the saddle forward than hunting types

Prestige Jumping Breastplate ? Old Mill Saddlery

http://www.fieldbrooksaddlery.com/zen/images/showjumping breastplate.JPG

Or a five point

http://www.stirrups.co.nz/images/cache/86f65bec5b97dfecf54e61b71633abdd.jpg

http://www.barnsby.com/assets/images/products/sxo-3169gb.jpg

http://www.johnwhitakerintltd.com/images/products/b/bp5-lg.jpg


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## MightyEventer (Sep 28, 2010)

thanks! didnt even know that five point even existed! i appreciate your help


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## StormyBlues (Dec 31, 2008)

Ohhh, I love my five point! It's great for XC! I have the Nunn Finner one (as do 5 people at my eventing barn) and we all love it!


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## MightyEventer (Sep 28, 2010)

StormyBlues said:


> Ohhh, I love my five point! It's great for XC! I have the Nunn Finner one (as do 5 people at my eventing barn) and we all love it!


is it a big difference from a regular breastplate? ive got so many things to buy and idk where to put that on my priority list!! haha


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## StormyBlues (Dec 31, 2008)

Well, my saddle is custom so it doesn't slip much, but the five point is really nice because it keeps the saddle from slipping at the girth too, so you're 99% sure you arn't going anywhere!


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## FoxyRoxy1507 (Jul 15, 2008)

i use the Ovation 5 pt and i love mine!


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## MightyEventer (Sep 28, 2010)

thanks guys, i guess ill be buying one next season then!


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