# Buckskin? Dun? or Dunskin?



## FriedaLH (Nov 29, 2020)

So, my Sparkles had a lighter butterscotch coloring than her offspring, big sister in the background, baby brother (red dun)... She is definitely dun, even with 4 white socks, but would her color be considered diluted as a bay or sorrel, or ??? She has a reddish mane and tail.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

You can't reg him AQHA or APHA without proof of parentage. Pintos would do a color reg on him just showing grade parents. I believe he has to be a gelding though. As for Dunskin or Buckskin, I've been told and can't remember who told me this, in order to be considered dun the horse's dorsal stripe has to carry on down into the tail plus he needs some other primitive markings so I'd think the horse would be buckskin, based solely on that info. Can't really tell without doing some DNA research.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

@upnover, can you tell me, can a horse be a buck if he has white anywhere? I've always called my guy a light buckskin(when I don't just refer to him as yellow) but I got told off by a know-it-all on a trail ride once, because he has a white sock & stripe on his face. Not that I care in the least, just interested.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

White patterns do not change other genetics. Any color can have white if they have any of the white pattern genes. There are three base colors - bay, black and red ( determined by E, e and A, a). Those are affected by other genes like champagne, cream, pearl, dun.... which change the dilution and presentation of hair and/or skin tone and eye color. There is roan that adds white interspersed and grey that removes pigment over time (and initialy causes a temporary hyperpigmentation). Dun has three presentations. D, nd1 and nd2. If your horse has D whether single or double he will have primitive markings (dorsal that goes through entire tail typical) and coat color dilution. If your horse has nd1, single or double, your horse will have primitives (usually not as striking a difference, dorsal may not go all the way through tail) but very little to no coat dilution - they do typically fade more though so can be confused for Dun. Then there is nd2 which has no primitive markings and no dilution from dun. Different dilution genes when combined cause varying color changes than the one gene alone. So you can have a double dilute cream with dun and a white (pinto or just legs and/or face white) that makes it really hard to tell what the horse is unless wet or in a seasonal coat change.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Buckskin is bay plus one cream. Dun is bay plus dun. Add a cream and you have a dunskin. Add nd1 instead and you have a buckskin with primitives but no D. Add any white and you have the same color genetically plus white no matter how extensive. A max white still genetically tests as their base plus the white gene causing it even though phenotypically (visually) they are white.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

loosie said:


> @upnover, can you tell me, can a horse be a buck if he has white anywhere? I've always called my guy a light buckskin(when I don't just refer to him as yellow) but I got told off by a know-it-all on a trail ride once, because he has a white sock & stripe on his face. Not that I care in the least, just interested.


I wonder if the person was thinking of the Buckskin Registries? They won't reg if there's "excessive white". Of course, until recently they wouldn't give a permanent reg # to a horse until it had produced so many buckskin offspring. I kept wondering when/if they'd ever change that rule now that we know what actually causes buckskin.


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