# OTTB critique



## boomboom (Feb 4, 2011)

^^ video of the mare. does she look off to you? or just possible racing soreness?

As well as this guy !


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

The photos aren't that great but I personally prefer the red mare. There's just something not quite right about the black/bay's hind legs, and to me, he looks spooky.

The red mare may have a slightly upright shoulder, if this photo is anything to go by. The video isn't helpful as she is in motion the whole time. The gelding has better shoulder angles but I really don't like those hind legs. He looks base narrow, cow-hocked, and possibly sickle-hocked. He also tends to stand under himself. The mare's stance is much better.

Going on the video the red mare looks like she has pretty good ground manners. Yes, she is a little off in the trot - looks like muscle soreness to me but I would have a PPE done, with x-rays, just to be sure it's not arthritis as some of these racing TB's go arthritic really young. A lot of TB's are 'daisy cutters' as in they have very flat action, especially in the trot, and she may be one of them, or she might just be sore. Perhaps she doesn't know how to use herself properly - that is very common.

All in all I personally prefer the mare, she has a lovely eye and a very honest expression. Comparing it to the gelding, his expression is almost alarmed, and he may tend towards being oversensitive and hard to handle. It might just be the moment, in which case I wouldn't use it to promote the horse (just me), or it might be that this particular horse IS constantly worried about something. I had a horse like that and boy was he hard to work with!

Edit to add; the mare may be a little over at the knee but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Overall her legs look pretty good, though her cannons may be a little on the long side - very common in TB's, but usually the TB leg is stronger than it looks.


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## boomboom (Feb 4, 2011)

Thank youu! I know the pictures are not the best, I will try to take some Friday.
I do have this weird thing in me leaning towards the gelding, not sure why. I hope that he is standing in an awkward position. Though the mare's price is much lower ! I will try to have an open mind going in for both to give each a fair chance. 
I do quiet like the mare's movement, provided it's just muscle soreness causing her to be slightly awkward. She looks like she has tons of reach to her stride. I am told the gelding has amazing movement too so it has me stuck!


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## jfisher256 (Jul 12, 2011)

I agree with blue eyed pony. The mare has a kind expression and looks like she has a nice personality. That's not to say that the other one you posted isn't, but that's just what I got from her picture.


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## boomboom (Feb 4, 2011)

Just want people to keep in mind that they raced just last week. I do agree the mare has a kind eye, she reminds me a lot of my tb I have now.


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## IquitosARG10 (Aug 27, 2011)

I like the gelding myself  He has high withers like mine, and sometimes it can be a challenge to keep up that topline once they start losing the muscle in there down time after being off the track. The mare does have a kind eye though and she looks like a nice mover. He does look like he has low heels in the back though. As far as him looking spooky I would disagree. I work on the backside of a track and they all get that look in their eye sometimes - he probably sees something or is all hyped up after a workout. But, you would know best after seeing him and getting a feel for his temperament. Do you know exactly why the horses are for sale/adoption? Not fast enough, retired, or previous injuries


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## boomboom (Feb 4, 2011)

Yay ! haha  My currently tb has high withers so I defiantly know how hard that can be ! He has been off the track 2 years, and in my hands for a year and he's now fat as can be. 
His heels are very low in the back which I believe is contributing to the awkward hind legs..so I hope ! 
I was told they both were not fast enough. Though I can't seem to find the geldings race information and pedigree.

Mares pedigree: Imsosweet Horse Pedigree
Gelding's name is Ceasar's Legion but no where to be found !


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## IquitosARG10 (Aug 27, 2011)

Try equibase.com, that's where I got all my guy's information...you can view the PPR's for each race and also watch videos...although you do have to pay - but totally worth it because you can just download them


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## IquitosARG10 (Aug 27, 2011)

Also, you may or may not already know this, but the low heels could potentially cause problems such as caudal heel pain (navicular disorder). I would have a vet get some radiographs just to make sure. Sometimes when they're young and at the track they are not shod as they should be, and the shoes aren't long enough in back and it can cause problems like that...usually it can be corrected with some good trimming and maybe some bar shoes...not saying he has this, but it's something to watch out for, it tends to be prevalent in thoroughbreds.


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## boomboom (Feb 4, 2011)

I am aware thanks though  My gelding had heel pain when I first got him, as many other issues.

He's not on there either? :S So confusing !


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## Katze (Feb 21, 2011)

Personally I like the gelding, he doesn't look alarmed to me just curious. 

As for his hind legs, can't tell much from the picture and the way he's standing, he does have a crazy high wither, BUT check out his neck, he needs some serious topline work.

I love his color and he looks sparky, the mare looks half asleep lol ( but I like my horses with some vroom vroom to them lol), and yeah she looks sore, no idea if it's muscle soreness or arthritis. Go for a PPE and x-rays like Blue said just to make sure. Good luck =)


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## IquitosARG10 (Aug 27, 2011)

Strange!! I tried looking it up too and it came up with a horse that raced back in the 80s haha. Is that the exact spelling? Sometimes they have wacko names with wacko spellings!


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## boomboom (Feb 4, 2011)

No clue that is what it says, though I will ask for spelling because I would like to see his racing records and not just rely on the trainer's words lol.


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## boomboom (Feb 4, 2011)

The person had spelt it wrong so here is his race information and pedigree 

Equibase Company - Thoroughbred Racing Information


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## boomboom (Feb 4, 2011)

These 2 got sold today so I have a few more. I am seeing all these Friday as they are all at the same place.

5 year old black mare. $1,500 neg.









6 year old bay gelding. $3,000 (Crazy price, I don't know if they are neg.)









3 year old dark bay gelding. Waiting on price









7 year old liver chestnut gelding. Waiting on price









6 year old liver chestnut. $1,500


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

I personally REALLY like that last liver chestnut. Gorgeous head, good shoulder angles, a little long in the back but that's balanced out by a nice long neck. That hindquarter could be stronger but it isn't too bad. The only things I really see are slightly long, over-sloping pasterns, and possibly straight hocks. This horse may be a little over at the knee but I actually like that. As long as it isn't too severe it can actually be a good thing, as it reduces strain on the tendons.

With the $3k horse, I don't really see anything about him that's truly spectacular. He has REALLY nice shoulder angles and a nice large strong-looking rump, but he is long in the back and neck, and perhaps a little light in bone.

They are all somewhat herring-gutted (may be from racing so I will let that slide) and most of them are very long in the pasterns. The dark bay 3yo, in particular, is very upright in the pasterns and also the shoulder. He is light in the neck (I like them with substance, which this guy lacks).

Can't see enough of the black mare to really critique her but she looks like she may have a weak hindquarter. Other than that, REALLY bad photo.

My picks of the bunch are the $3k bay and the 6yo liver chestnut. Of those two I would probably choose the chestnut, solely based on hooves (the bay's hooves are long in the toe and low in the heel). If the bay's hooves were balanced better I would probably choose him but long toe/low heel causes a LOT of problems. Both have relatively short cannons, the chestnut in particular - this is a strength.

They all have their faults and it's up to you to decide which faults you are willing to overlook, and which faults you just can't accept. For me, I can overlook slightly crooked legs (but NEVER back at the knee! Slightly over is good, back is VERY VERY BAD) as long as the rest of the horse is acceptable, and that especially includes hooves. Straight shoulders, long or upright pasterns, and weak hindquarters are never going to help a horse along in any of the English disciplines. They limit reach, make the stride jarring and/or uncomfortable, and most importantly, can (and do) cause soundness problems.


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## boomboom (Feb 4, 2011)

Thanks so much ! I believe the $3k gelding is way out of price range for an ottb anyway. What do you mean by herring-gutted? Most of these have raced in the last 2 weeks or still racing so that is probably why.
Please let me know if you cannot see it:
Dark bay gelding: Content Not Found | Facebook
I like the dark bay for some reason, other then his upright shoulder an pasterns. Though my currently ottb has the same and I am finding it really hard to make the distances and strides in the hunter ring, SO for that reason he may not work for me. 
The 6 year old liver chestnut is gorgeous and other then he's a bit older then I had wanted he seems to really stand out. 

I have a video of the liver chestnut but it's on a private FB unfortunately. Anything in the 7 year old liver that might not be good? I know he's not standing properly.


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## IquitosARG10 (Aug 27, 2011)

I totally agree with Blue Eyed Pony...I LOVE LOVE LOVE the liver chestnut!! The 7 year old chestnut looks like he is built a little bit downhill, which I'm not overly fond of. My second favorite would be the first black mare, I like her build...could use a bit more butt muscle, but it could be the way she is standing. She looks like she has a nice back for some hunter jumper!


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## olympustraining (May 5, 2011)

The black horse has a weak hind end, especially in the pasterns.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

The 7yo chestnut isn't a horse I would buy. I don't like his pasterns, he looks downhill, and he looks like he is quite a way over at the knee - not the worst I have seen but enough that I would be concerned about him being more likely to knuckle over. Depending on severity, over at the knee IS a weakness, but if it was between a horse that was over at the knee and a horse that was back, over at the knee is the lesser of two evils.

Herring-gutted is when the line of the horse's belly goes diagonally upwards instead of more horizontal. Most racehorses are at least somewhat herring-gutted simply because they are SO fit. The trick is to get an OTTB that is relatively close to the norm for a normal horse, so that it is more likely to become a normal horse once it has had time to let down. The 7yo chestnut is the most severely affected of these horses, but they are all herring-gutted to some degree. HOWEVER, being racehorses in work, most of them will be normal given time to let down. The concern is that if you get a horse like the 7yo, it may not ever properly "let down" and a herring gut affects the horse's stamina, reducing heart and lung room. Depending on what you do, it may or may not be a big deal. For me, as a showjumper and eventer, I won't have a herring-gutted horse, but for horses that generally aren't worked hard (show horses, many pleasure horses), it is an acceptable fault.

The trick is to research the faults and their effects, and choose which faults you will accept. If you want a horse for hunters or jumpers, upright shoulders and pasterns will be something you can't overlook, as they will limit scope and the horse will jump with less-than-ideal form. They also affect movement on the flat, restricting forward reach and therefore forward movement - not ideal for dressage - AND they affect stamina.

A weak hindquarter is prone to unsoundness and limits scope and form over fences.

I think that the absolute standout in this field is the 6yo liver chestnut. That is a horse that will do well in show-horse classes, possibly moves quite nicely (conformation appears to allow it), and may well have a very nice jump.


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## newbhj (Jul 31, 2011)

I love that last liver chestnut, I want him! D:


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