# Your definition of green broke, broke, well broke and dead broke.



## ZombieHorseChick

My definitions of...

Green broke: has had a saddle on, been ridden only a few times, has a lot of vices, needs experienced rider and tons of work, is liable to spook/bolt,buck/kick,rear, crow hop, refuse simple situations. 

Broke: can be ridden by an intermediate rider, still has a lot of vices, but not as many, has more miles, been in more situations, over all better behaved; listens to some leg, rein and vocal cues, not particularly soft or responsive, possible crow hop,bolt/spook. 

Well broke: soft mouth, listens to leg cues, rein cues and vocal, has some vices under saddle, respectful, possible spookiness to few things.

Dead broke/bomb proof: no spook,buck,rear,bolt or crow hop, calm and gentle in more intense situations, beginner safe, very respectful, responsive to leg,rein and vocal cues.

I would mark you as advanced beginner/beginner, and your horse at well broke.
no offense, I regard intermediate pretty high, I regard myself as advanced beginner and I've been steadily riding since I was little( raised in a horsey home) have had lessons, ridden multiple buck/rear/spook/bolt/crow hop/ unpredictable horses, have been training horses, and I'm almost 17, I myself have a three horses, one that is broke, one well broke and one bordering on dead broke/well broke. And I used to have a few green broke ( one mare not even halter broke)


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## ZombieHorseChick

My definition of riding abilities in the sense on there only existing beginner,advanced beginner,intimidate and experienced/advanced/pro.

It is extremely hard to rate a rider with out seeing how they work with the horse, how they react in certain situations and such like that. So any ratings you get May be under,over or right on track with your riding ability.


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## kiltsrhott

For horses I define...

Green Broke as started under saddle. The horse knows the basics and will move at a walk, trot and canter, but has very few miles. The horse may not be quick with transitions, and may not be overly maneuverable. Bucking, bolting, rearing and spooking are all a possibility. Only advanced riders should ride these horses.

A broke horse has more miles under saddle than a green broke horse and will w/t/c without issue. The horse may have a few remaining vices under saddle, but vices are at least known and are not extremely dangerous or detrimental to the horse's performance. Riders Intermediate and above could ride this type of horse. Depending on the horse, a beginner may be able to ride with close supervision performing easy activities.

A well broke horse performs consistently well in their discipline and has no notable vices under saddle. Depending on the horse, advanced beginners and above could ride this kind of horse.

A dead broke horse is a horse that is well broke but is also older, very experienced, calm, and trustworthy. Just because a horse is well broke does not mean they can't be a bit hot. A dead broke horse, to me, is a well broke horse that is also beginner safe. They are not spooky, or fast, or strong. They are just steady and reliable.

To me, green and beginner rider are the same thing. It's any rider that is just starting out and may not have ridden at all three gaits yet. They may not have their balance or strength and would not be able to safely ride without help from a more experienced rider or instructor.

An intermediate rider has moved past dependency and is proficient enough to safely tack, mount, and ride their own horse without help. They should have enough balance and strength to ride through a few small bucks or other misbehaviors, but they are not ready to train a horse or try to work through dangerous vices, because they still either have a few bad habits of their own to work through or are not confident enough to move on to greater challenges yet.

An advanced rider is a rider that is able to take a green broke or a problem horse and help that horse work through their vices. They may still take lessons to maintain their position and technique but are already successful in their discipline.

I would place your horse in the "broke" category. You describe her as a reasonable horse to handle and ride but she still has a few things she needs to work on, and would need more miles before she could be consider "well broke".

I would put you in the "intermediate" category. You describe yourself as being somewhat confident and able to work through most of your horse's antics, but you still have some things to work on before you are ready for advanced challenges.

I would place myself in the intermediate category as well right now. I'm not as well-practiced as I used to be and have lost some confidence. I would have called myself advanced about 8 years ago, when I was a teenager and had been riding, consistently for many years prior. I was competing and winning, and I had backed and broke my own filly. I'm not quite so capable anymore.

My horse is having some inexplicable behavioral problems that have stumped two trainers and two vets. She's not rideable at all right now. This past fall I would have placed her at "broke" as well. She was an easy, responsive ride at all three gaits with no vices and was starting over fences. She just needed some refinement and work on collection. Right now I would put her in the "problem horse" category, but I will continue to work with trainers, veterinarians and chiropracors and anyone else I can find until I can pull her out of the "problem horse" category and put her back in the "broke" category.


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## MinervaELS

A lot of people seem to look at a horse's level of "broke" in terms of training alone. Any horse that is not fully trained into a discipline is "green broke." I don't feel that this is terribly realistic, and I think that this is where a lot of the conflict about green horses and riders comes from. For a horse matching my description of green, a green rider definitely has no business being on them. However, lots of horses that are labeled "green" simply because they lack higher training are still quite broke and safe.

My definition of green broke is a horse that is still unpredictable to some extent under saddle and/or has known issues when riding that can be attributed to a lack of experience and miles. Generally less than 50 rides or so under their belts- er, girths- and more if they are a particularly stubborn case or were badly trained. Need to be handled and ridden by an experienced rider; preferably one who also has some knowledge about training.

To me, a horse that is safe and reliable under saddle with all the basics down but is unfinished or not specialized is NOT green broke. It's just a horse that is broke but not finished. They need to be given a specific job or discipline and taught all of the skills to go along with it. They are ignorant in the sense that they do not have the wider range of skills that accompanies being specialized or having a discipline. However, since they are able to be ridden in a typical manner at all gaits they do not deserve the title of "green broke," they are simply broke.

Of course, more highly trained horses also fall under the category of "broke." Maybe they are a little more challenging to handle, or maybe they are intolerant of beginners who give them muddled cues, but for whatever reason they need to be ridden by someone who knows what they are doing. I suppose they could also be considered "well broke" due to their higher level of skill, but I don't generally use that term.

"Dead broke" is a horse that you can stick anyone on. They are tolerant of kids, beginners, first timers, whatever. They can be trusted not to do anything to cause them to fall off. They can also be trusted to do this at all gaits, not just at the walk or trot.

As for riders, I am a bit more lenient. I feel that most people I meet fall into the intermediate category. Once someone can consistently stay on, handle and cue and steer the horse, and is comfortable, they are no longer a rank beginner to me. Usually once they progress into learning something specific (Western pleasure, jumping, whatever) I consider them competent enough to be an "advanced beginner." Of course, some people don't have a discipline and that's fine too. An advanced beginner should also be learning how to deal with issues that arise under saddle such as spooky situations. A year or two of riding frequently generally accomplishes this.

An advanced or experienced rider to me is someone that has been around the block so many times they can do it with their eyes closed. They have been riding for a long time, ride frequently, usually have competed, and have experience with a number of different horses. They can hop on almost any horse (barring those with serious behavioral issues that require trainers of course) and ride it successfully, not just staying on but also accomplishing something.

To me, everyone else is intermediate. :lol: Competent enough to handle things and usually have a good idea of what we're doing (or trying to do), but also still working hard to learn and master things.

For you, I would say your horse is "broke." Definitely not green, but still has things to learn. You don't give much information on you, but just from that brief bit I'd guess maybe advanced beginner. You don't mention if you are comfortable at all gaits or have done any work within a discipline though. 


In general I think people are too apt to slap the labels "green" and "beginner" on horses and people. I know that some live in areas where horses and competing are the norm and there are lots of advanced riders, so I'm sure that is part of it. I mean, if you're at a show barn where most people have been doing it for years and years at a high level I'm sure that everyone else looks like a newb. Around here there are mostly typical horse people that don't show much (if at all) and don't have a discipline. They just ride and school and enjoy their horses however they like.


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## MinervaELS

Actually, upon reflection I would like to split "experienced rider" and "advanced rider" into two separate categories. :lol:

For me, an experienced rider is one step up from intermediate and has seen and done more than an intermediate rider. They have more experience with more horses and have been riding consistently for a fair amount of years. They can handle and sort out a good level of shenanigans from a horse. They may or may not be in a discipline and possess/be working on advanced riding skills and techniques.

An advanced rider is one with both a high level of skills and experience with many different horses, as in my first post.

Now I think I've got my categories figured out. :wink:


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## 2BigReds

Hmm, interesting thread. Before, I may have still labeled my horse as green broke since he's not even remotely finished in anything, but he also knows quite a bit and definitely has some miles on him. Subbing to read some more responses!


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