# Riding instructors behaviour



## jesscorc (Mar 12, 2017)

I feel for you! As a newer rider myself who has been receiving english dressage and jumping lessons for the past 9 months I understand how important it is for my instructor to be ready with feedback after every exercise. She even notices my position with her back turned! mg:

I think you should have a pre-meeting with your instructor before you begin your lesson to address your concerns.
You are paying her to teach you and not to school her own horse:frown_color: She may have gotten too comfortable with you and might not realise what she is doing.. However if she doesn't change her actions maybe consider someone else?


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Not right at all. 

I would certainly bring up the issues with her.

I would take novice riders out on the trails, it is easier for them to get the feel than in an arena, but I would be with them and helping them all the time.


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## pennywise (Feb 1, 2016)

She can teach lessons however she wants but it's normal that the trainer is advising 100% during the entire lesson, from the ground.


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## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

I assume you're paying her by the hour to teach you how to ride ... If your lessons are being curtailed by 10-20 minutes that means she's raking you over for about a quarter of your hourly fee - that is unacceptable. I could see it happening every once in a while - but every time? Absolutely not. Same with not instructing you or schooling her own horse - she can school her own horse in her own time, NOT while you're paying her to be teaching you. And I would certainly never leave a beginning rider alone for any length of time, even if they're not in imminent danger of falling off - she should be constantly giving you tasks to perform so you can better yourself, and constantly critiquing and giving advice on how to perform said tasks. Telling you to do something and then checking back in 10 minutes later is not acceptable.

I would definitely be bringing these concerns up with her. 

-- Kai


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

At first glance, I'd say she's taking advantage. BUT. I take lessons as well and my trainer is frequently on my horse that's in training while I ride a schoolie. My husband hauls in another of our horses, who is already trained, and rides on him. Frequently our lessons start late. And just as frequently we run over. Our last lesson was almost 3 hrs long because weather made it so that the next 2 lessons after us cancelled so we just kept on riding, no extra charge. 

My trainer has eyes in the back of her head, I swear. LOL! She tells me what she wants me to do, then watches me until I get it right, and then leaves me alone to practice it to sort of let it soak in, then we do another thing. During the time I'm trying out the new exercise she's given us, she watches very closely, from on top of my horse. Then she'll go work on something with my horse while I practice. At the end, when I'm done with the exercises on the schoolie, she takes the schoolie and gives me my horse and I get up and ride around doing the same things on her, for just a few minutes. That way I'm learning the exercise on the experienced horse, then applying it on my own horse. So, if that's how your lessons are going, I wouldn't be too upset. 

However, if your lesson starts 15-20 mins late, she gives you an exercise to do and pays attention for 10-15 minutes more, then is off doing her own thing for the next 30, no, you're not getting your money's worth. Pay attention to what's really going on, and then decide if you want to have a meeting with her, let be because it's not as bad as you initially thought, or if you want to change instructors. The main thing is, you are paying for her time and attention and if you're not getting it, something needs to change.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Not to be too blunt here, but she's taking you for a ride. A typical solo riding lesson consists of riding in an arena for a set amount of time while the instructor stands in the middle or from another suitable vantage point, asks you execute various gaits and maneuvers and gives you feedback pretty much all the time while this is happening. On occasion there might be excursions afield but those are also filled with instruction and feedback.

If she starts you late, she must go overtime at the end of the lesson to make up for it.
She should NEVER be schooling another horse while you are paying her to pay attention to you. In fact you should not be left to your own devices AT ALL. That's not a lesson, that's renting riding time. 

She's stealing from you, whether you want to see it that way or not. Either sit down with her and explain exactly what you want in a lesson (the above), or get a new, truly professional, instructor.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

My son's instructor will typically but not always ride horses she is schooling while teaching upper level classes and is advising and pointing out what's what to the students the entire time. It also makes it easy if she wants to demonstrate something as there is an actual horse underneath her. She always rides with the ladies group. If she is cutting your time and not there 100% then you are being shorted though I will also add that every now and then something comes up and she asks me or another riding parent to step in while she takes care of what she needs too.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Quite simply, no, it is not acceptable. If she is just off riding on her own while you are not being watched or supervised, then you are just paying to ride a horse, not paying for instruction. Does she tell you what you need to work on? Does she give you feedback at the end that shows she really has been paying attention? It doesn't sound like it. 

I wouldn't bother bringing this up with her, I'd just find someone else. But that's me.


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> She tells me what she wants me to do, then watches me until I get it right, and then leaves me alone to practice it to sort of let it soak in, then we do another thing.





QtrBel said:


> My son's instructor will typically but not always ride horses she is schooling while teaching upper level classes


These situations deal with experienced riders, which I would not consider the OP to be after only 3 months of lessons.


OP, personally I would not find your current situation to be acceptable. If your lesson starts late, it should be continued late or else you should be charged less. If you are paying for a one-on-one private lesson, then I feel the instructor should be paying attention to you and only you, not schooling another horse and not leaving the ring routinely. It sounds like you have brought up some concerns to the instructor and nothing has changed? Are there other lesson facilities in your area?


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

I am experienced enough to ride independently, inside and outside the arena. I have returned to some private lessons to improve and refine my riding towards the "green" end of the horse spectrum, and my instructor is paying attention to me the entire time. I find your instructor's behavior unprofessional. She's acting more like a more experienced riding buddy, helping you out with a few tips, but then she shouldn't get paid.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

phantomhorse13 said:


> These situations deal with experienced riders, which I would not consider the OP to be after only 3 months of lessons.


You're correct, I don't say the OP is advanced, but I was illustrating what COULD be happening. Not saying right or wrong in the OP's case, but just something for her to look at while she's assessing whether or not the instructor is giving her what she's paying for. Is the instructor just not good with beginners? Is the instructor really just taking her for a ride? Is the instructor actually trying to multitask (not what I'd want as a total beginner, that's opening a door to disaster IMO) and failing? What's really going on? There's just not enough info in the OPs post for me to be comfortable saying "Yea or Nay" about the instructor.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Hmm, I see most people are against what’s going on with you, and they are probably right. Definitely you should start on time and not be shorted. 

That said, if I am realistic, when I work with my kids I may watch for about ten minutes and go over something (if they are working with a young horse or at a new concept). After that they can kind of work on whatever we’ve discussed. I may be working on my own colt, but I am watching them (as much as they wish I weren’t lol) and I will scold them if they do something I don’t like. It gives them a chance to work on something without feeling pressured. It also, sadly as my youngest has learned, takes a lot of consistency with a horse and a person. If you need to work on your trot, my micromanaging wouldn’t help you as much as experience would. I only am constantly barking out instructions if they are struggling or if I am nervous about them or a horse. There are those times too.

I say all of this only to explain that she might have her reasons for doing it the way that she does. Now, that doesn’t mean that it works for you. If you don’t like it find something that you do like better. There is nothing wrong with that either. 🙂


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## blueberryroses (Apr 12, 2018)

Hello everyone,

Thank you all very much for your replies. I can see that this is a really nice community and I appreciate the time you have all taken to respond to me 

To answer some previous queries, the instructor is not able to 'make up' the time at the end of the lesson as it falls right on the end of the school day and she then goes to collect her children. Furthermore, the situation is complicated by the lack of options in my area. The riding school I attend is the only one in my region, ironically the only other instructor in the area actually operates as a higher level dressage instructor who provides training to my instructor, so my limited riding experience rules me out and in any case I imagine she would be reluctant to take me on if I cut ties with my current instructor. The only other riding schools are approximately 3 hour return trips by car. Furthermore, not long ago I (stupidly) paid in advance for upwards of another 15 lessons at a not insignificant expense. 

I feel quite deflated as I did not have the opportunity to ride as a child and as an adult I am finally in a position to realise this lifelong dream. I often feel I have to prompt my instructor to critique me when she finally make eye contact and that her responses are mere platitudes as they are not very specific. 

It has been very helpful to hear what you have all had to say as I thought it might be standard practice for an instructor to ride alongside a student once they got to a certain point. 

I'm not sure how to frame the conversation (suggestions appreciated!) but I think I will have to approach this topic quite sensitively with my instructor as I do sympathise in that she clearly wants to ride her horse but has limited time and I don't want to get her 'hackles' up due to my highly limited options.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Hmmm, yes, you are in a difficult position then. It is probably a good idea to see if you can talk to her and discuss ways you could get more out of your lessons. Does she tell you what you should work on each time? Does she give you feedback at the end about what you are doing right, and what you need to improve? 

Since you've pre-paid, and are in an area with limited opportunities, you should probably make the best of this situation. Start by asking this instructor what YOU can do to make the most out of your lessons. That makes it less accusatory. If nothing changes, then just try to give yourself riding goals each time, and use up the lessons you've already paid for. Meantime, start searching for someone else. It doesn't have to be a riding school. There may be someone in your area who is not necessarily a certified instructor, but would like to work with someone like yourself. Yes, kids and teens are far more flexible physically, but they also have short attention spans. Adults can be great to teach, because they can really grasp complicated concepts and apply them consistently. They have a lot more self-discipline and motivation. Don't sell yourself short just because you didn't start riding when you were 5. Look for someone who can really teach you. Also, I have friends who drive over an hour to take lessons (one way). It's not uncommon. Sometimes it's worth it.

And finally, my daughter has been taking lessons for 7 years with 7 different coaches. Not a single one of them has ever walked away from a lesson to do something else, or ride their own horse. Never. I don't buy that this is an acceptable teaching method for a relative beginner. I also take lessons, and it's the same. The person teaching me is a grown up student of my daughter's coach. I find her a little less intense than my daughter's coach (who is amazing for someone who wants to ride competitively). So keep looking around for the right person... check out local tack stores if you have some, talk to other horse people you trust (don't bad-mouth your current instructor though), keep an eye out for private horse barns in your area.

My daughter's coach says "practice doesn't make perfect - perfect practice makes perfect". In other words, just riding without knowing if you're doing it correctly will not make you a better rider, it will only create bad habits. She watches all her riders like a hawk, and everyone gets a correction immediately if they are doing it wrong. Like I said, she's a bit intense, but my daughter loves the challenge, and had progressed so much more with her than with any other coach. She's also learning to expect more of herself, which is not a bad skill to learn for a teenager.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I agree with the bulk of what's been said, and I've been on both sides of the fence. When I gave lessons (albeit, very briefly and not at a particularly exceptional establishment), I was with the student from start to finish. If they were young or particularly inexperienced, I would help them catch the horse and tack up. Once they were in the arena, they had all of my attention unless I was checking the time or on the odd chance I needed to use the restroom. This is the service they were paying for.

Between physically moving and becoming a more experienced rider, I've had quite a few trainers. Only two did anything other than what was described above. Even at the top of my game (when I was undoubtedly paying the most for lessons), my trainer never once rode a horse or wasn't present to critique my riding during a lesson. That's her job!
As you say, lessons are not cheap.

So, given your situation, I'd definitely have a conversation--which I know is easier said than done. 
You could point out how you've noticed that lessons are starting later, but ending at the same time--maybe request a discount based on that? Maybe that will open her eyes without you flat out saying that what she's doing isn't professional.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

blueberryroses said:


> I'm not sure how to frame the conversation (suggestions appreciated!) but I think I will have to approach this topic quite sensitively with my instructor as I do sympathise in that she clearly wants to ride her horse but has limited time and I don't want to get her 'hackles' up due to my highly limited options.


I'm not know for my tact or for sidling up to a point in a conversation, so take what I say with a large grain of salt. 

If I were in your position, I would make an appointment to speak with her at a time she is not supposed to be giving a lesson. I certainly wouldn't take up MY lesson time with the conversation, unless that was my only option and I would make it very clear that I felt owed another actual lesson. In other words, don't pay her to have this conversation with you. 

I would tell her that I was not entirely satisfied with how things were going. I'd bring up the time factor, the riding another horse during my lesson issue, and the fact that I didn't feel she was giving me enough instructive criticism. I would remind her that I was paying for a 1 hr. lesson and that I expected to get an hour. I'd also make sure I was showing up to groom & tack up at least 20 mins before, so that can't become an excuse. I wouldn't threaten to leave, she still owes 15 lessons, so don't give her any excuses to not deliver. Depending on how the conversation goes, I would then determine if I was going to take my 15 lessons and move on to the more advanced instructor or stay with this one or look around. If you want to do dressage, the higher level instructor can be a good choice for you. You may not be upper level right now, but you'll find you come up fairly quickly. Some people are not born to teach. That may be your instructor's issue, she just isn't a good teacher. Find out where some schooling shows are and go watch, I bet you find more instructors than you're hearing about. 

Never bad mouth her to anyone, the horse world is just too small to survive that.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

As someone else said, I would look around for another instructor, asking at feed and tack stores, asking riding friends. I have "helped" many novices over the years, charging nothing. They may not be amazing lessons, but we do have a lot of fun and some adventures too. I would never advertise, but if someone asks me nicely if I would take them riding and help them, I often accommodate them. This would probably be word of mouth for you, so you would need to ask around, including asking at horse farms where you see horses grazing. I got my latest riding friend at a yard sale, and it turns out he knows a lot more than I do. 

Right now, what you are getting is not what you should be getting. Although it might be hard to find, people like me are out there. You can learn a lot that way, maybe not to show and win, but have a lot of fun.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I only read a few responses....then came to write my own..

This almost feels like you became friends not a paying client status...
You are paying for the undivided attention of said instructor to be on you...privately, unwavering on you in private lessons.
This means she is not riding her horse & schooling it at that lesson time.
Riding in a open area, maybe not fenced as high or as well I can see being astride so she can ride alongside offering help and support while you learn new things astride in a filed, not a small riding arena.
There in a large open setting, astride makes sense...

Lessons can often run "over" for many reasons...
You though are still entitled to your allotted amount of time under instruction...
That is riding with eyes watching for the entire time, not running off to do chores, riding her horse in another part of the field schooling it, not leaving you vulnerable nor without guidance being feet away instead of football fields away...

Are you being taken advantage of...
The answer to that must be a_* yes.*_
Your instructor has taken on sloppy habits and yet I bet she still expects full payment for slip-shod work being provided.
If you really like her, speak to her about the situation...
Give her the chance to make it right, realign her teaching you and stop taking advantage of your go-along attitude.
If after speaking with her she still continues this way of teaching you...
You owe her nothing, walk away and find another facility to ride and spend your hard-earned money at.
If she changes, give it a chance but if she slips back to bad habits just tell her you are displeased and will be your last lesson as she doesn't seem able to instruct you, further your riding education as you are paying her for, but finds the need to do her thing during your time...
Private lessons are especially expensive no matter where or who you ride with.
You take a lot of lessons, all private means many $$ a week spent...this instructor is not going to want to lose you for a client if smart._ {Bet you pay much of her horses upkeep bills for the month! :eek_color:}_

If you leave, when you find a new barn, if asked tell them who you rode with, for how long and what it was you had accomplished before moving on.
_*Do not* share the reasons for leaving as it is unimportant and a private matter._
_*Do not* gossip or feed the rumor mill_...you left for personal reasons, period.
The horse-world is a small entity and very gossipy in nature.
What you say will be a twist of truth and made larger than what it was in fault.
Take the high road if needed and say little or nothing is best.
You just never know where your paths may cross again nor under what conditions...bad-feelings is not a way to end a relationship such as this.
It just isn't working the way you want nor need and you seek a better match, period.

I have a feeling you may stay on for a short time, but will be looking for a new place sooner rather than later...
Human nature is human nature and we revert back to sloppy habits to easily.. :|
:runninghorse2:...
_jmo..._


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

That's super unprofessional behaviour.

I've had private lessons for two and a half years with the same coach. She's always IN the ring, NOT on a horse, and giving me constant instruction and feedback. I think I can count on one hand the amount of times she's had to leave the ring for anything during a lesson, and never for more than a minute or two and with GOOD reason (like the time she spotted a horse in an adjacent field stuck in a twisted blanket).

The only thing that's changed over time that could be construed as a negative is that the lessons have gotten shorter -- down from an hour to 40-45 minutes instead at the same price. BUT, we're also doing more advanced, difficult work during that time and both the horse and I are usually crying uncle by the end of it, so the lessons are the exact length they NEED to be and wouldn't be productive if we kept going.

It sounds like she's been steadily pushing your boundaries and, as she received no negative feedback from you, she pushed them more and more until it reached this rather ridiculous point. That's not your fault; she shouldn't have been doing that in the first place. But I do think that's what's happened here. You gave her an inch and she took a mile.

If my instructor were to get on her own horse and use my ride time as a schooling session, or if she were to leave me to ride on my own and leave to do something else, I'd be paying HALF the price of a lesson, which is what I pay for independent riding time.


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## Kriva (Dec 11, 2015)

I feel your pain. Been there twice and am hopefully about to move on to my third instructor. The first one lasted a few years until it got to this point and that's when I started feeling more like I was paying for a friend to sometimes hang out while I rode. 

If you feel like there's no where else you can go within reason and you'd like to speak to her as tactfully as possible, maybe try telling her that you're the type of person that needs constant feedback to know if you're doing something right. Make it more of a "this is what I need" instead of "this is what you aren't doing for me". Or just continue to ask her questions while she's trying to ride her horse so that her ride time is interrupted often since this is supposed to be your ride time. And the previous lesson running late is not out of the ordinary (or at least from what I've seen - but my experiences haven't been great), but that just means that your lesson should run late also. If there's no way possible for her to accommodate that then can you join in on the tail end of the previous lesson? After all, they're getting their hour, shouldn't you?


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

I have a few thoughts on this from a different perspective.

I think if the previous lesson runs late, she needs to stop their lesson early. i was giving lessons for a while and that was a huge pet peeve. People would show up late and still expect to get a full lesson. Meanwhile, my horses are tacked and waiting at the barn. I'm out the time i was waiting, and the next person arrives mid lesson. As an instructor you have to say No! No you can't bring an extra child and expect to fit in the same time slot. No you can't arrive late and expect a full lesson...

She needs to set some boundaries, as otherwise people will take full advantage. Now she may allow their lesson to run over especially if she values their business over yours. If they are paying $60 for a lesson and you are paying $30, obviously you aren't going to get the same quality of a lesson. 

If you aren't a high paying client, i can understand why she wants to ride her own horse rather than stand in the middle giving a lesson, but that is rude to dismiss you. I would try to discuss it with her. 

One other thing... If you are working on a posting trot, it takes time to develop those muscles, and the flexibility to keep your heels down. In that case, you need more repetition and there isn't a ton the instructor can do other than watch to ensure you aren't doing anything unsafe.


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## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

You are too nice - your instructor is only human. And I've found in my experience that some instructors don't take beginner riders seriously and therefore do not DESERVE their constant attention. I live in London UK and I tell you if any instructor in any of the dozen or so stables around me tried that they would be absolutely getting crapped on for it. She is being incredibly unprofessional and you need to confront her about it. You are paying for X but you are only getting Z. Speak to her - what's the worst she can do, really? Cringe? Tell her your expectations - that she respect you, be on time and provide real-time critique. You are NOT paying her for a buddy ride and you are NOT paying her to ride HER HORSE!!!!!!!! I have only got to a stage I could consider schooling on my own and I'm not a beginner rider! Poor you ... flailing around not knowing what is correct or not. It's not just bout critique, its about knowing when you're doing good. That's what progress is about RIGHT?

She must be loving it. Her actions scream: MY time is more important. MY dressage practice is more important. ME ME ME ME ME. Well, you have paid, PAID, for her to pay attention to YOU. Yes, you have paid her for many upfront. But bear in mind that she will expect you to pay again. The fact she taught you standard style at the start suggests that this approach is a CHOICE for her and by the fact you have gone alone with it, unknowingly. She's choosing to waste your time and money. This makes me sad.

Meanwhile while you gather the courage to have an adult talk with her - don't be afraid of anything, she might not have realised how unprofessional she looks, so self-absorbed in her own importance, and hopefully realise that if she wants to keep you as a customer she's going to have to share her expertise. Go binge youtube on basic schooling and try give yourself some goals to work on. Is there any way you could invest in a camera and tripod to record yourself and say that you're looking for online critique additionally? 

Good luck and go get your money's worth!


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