# The Rare/Elusive APHA Stallion



## FoxRidgeRanch (May 20, 2008)

Ok so I may be looking for a stallion in the forever away future but like to think about it and have all the details about everything before I make a decision. I usually end up buying a 4-8 month old foal and raising and training since then you know what your getting. But just for future reference I am just wondering there are any good all around APHA Stallions? 

Requirements!!

1. Good Conformation.

2. Needs to have a job(s) and be good at it! Like Reining, Cutting, competitive trail, driving, anything that requires a good brain and athletics. No Halter studs.

3. Nice pedigree

4. N/N on the 5 panel test.

5. Testimonials are a plus but not a requirement.

This is one guy that I like a ton but still gotta gather more intel!
The Big Sensation

He does just about everything and looks good doing it!! LOVE IT!

Bring them on


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Are you looking for JUST APHA or AQHA as well?


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## FoxRidgeRanch (May 20, 2008)

AQHA is fine as well, multiple disciplines would be awesome. I found out The Big Sensation is a HERDA N/H and OLWG N/O.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

SBR Formula One is a great one in my personal opinion. He's N/N on the five panel, OLWs N/N. I know he's shown quite a bit. His owner is awesome to work with. 
SBR Formula One website


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

the stallion shown in the OP , I do not think he would make reining cutting horses.


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## FoxRidgeRanch (May 20, 2008)

stevenson said:


> the stallion shown in the OP , I do not think he would make reining cutting horses.


No probably not but I was just giving examples of working disciplines 

I love SBR Formula One, he is gorgeous and throws gorgeous functional babies. I"ve had him bookmarked for the last 2-3 years


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

What's OWLG? If you mean lethal white that is not at all a reason to rule out the horse unless the mare you are breeding is also a carrier.

There is NO harm in the horse being N/O. It's merely a matter of not breeding N/O to N/O. Definitely something to keep in mind but not at all a reason to rule out a horse unless of course the mare carries it. It's a color not a disease.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Just ensure your mare is NN on the 5 panel and the foal will not be symptomatic. Herda and OLWS are not like HYPP. Those horses that are N/h are just carriers and are asymptomatic. Shalom


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Whether I would avoid The Big Sensation would depend on if my mare was also an OLWS carrier and/or N/H for Herda. If your mare is NN for both I wouldn't worry too much about it, but would test the foal just so I would KNOW in case I sold. That way, you could disclose and not have to worry about someone breeding the foal on and not being educated.


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## FoxRidgeRanch (May 20, 2008)

Yeah I wouldn't avoid him for my girls both are AQHA Herda N/N and Neither have any paints within the first 3 generations of their pedigree. I need to get a 5 panel done on both. I really like both of these boys, very nice stallions.


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## FoxRidgeRanch (May 20, 2008)

This guys seems nice too, really nice record. No impressive lines and OLWS Neg. 

Mr Tramp, APHA


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

FoxRidgeRanch said:


> This guys seems nice too, really nice record. No impressive lines and OLWS Neg.
> 
> Mr Tramp, APHA


I don't like him at all. I did like a lot of what the first stallion you put up had produced. Actually considered using him myself for a minute or 2.


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## FoxRidgeRanch (May 20, 2008)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> I don't like him at all. I did like a lot of what the first stallion you put up had produced. Actually considered using him myself for a minute or 2.


What don't you like about him? I mean it seriously. What tells you guys, "Oh Heck No" with some stallions? Its good knowledge to know  or is he just not your type for your girls? I made that sound weird, hope that made sense


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

FoxRidgeRanch said:


> Yeah I wouldn't avoid him for my girls both are AQHA Herda N/N and Neither have any paints within the first 3 generations of their pedigree. I need to get a 5 panel done on both. I really like both of these boys, very nice stallions.


Not having paints in the pedigree really doesn't mean diddly. AQHA horses can and do carry frame so AQHA horses should be tested for frame regardless of what their "breeding" says since frame can hide.


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## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

I know he is a AQHA but what about this guy? Homepage of the cozy corral provided by Bravenet.com


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## FoxRidgeRanch (May 20, 2008)

I just need to get my girls tested up, I probably won't ever breed them but I feel more responsible in general. He's a pretty boy, Love a solid black horse.


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## Left Hand Percherons (Feb 1, 2011)

Smart Mark could very well be a carrier. It does not state his herda status on the website and his get for sale clearly state their's. That would make me think he is. I find it interesting that the 2 breeders in the discussion don't have a problem with perpetuating a recessive fault that could easily be bred out in one generation. Is the genetic contributions these carrier horses provide too important to the breed? Hardly. The breeds where herda has it's greatest #s all have open stud books. There are thousands of quality horse in the gene pool. It's all about money and politics. I'm not speaking as a casual observer. I have first hand experience with the condition and this mare was bred by the biggest names in the industry who knew what they were doing.

Stick to your guns and demand a clear 5 panel test. Just because you know the status of a foal you produce (say it's a carrier) doesn't mean that subsequent owners will understand the consequences of the disease or care. Accidental breeding happen everyday. Most carriers are never tested because the major breed registries do not require it. Maybe those foals end up in the grade category at the Saturday night sale. 

The B/W doesn't do anything for me either.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

FoxRidgeRanch said:


> What don't you like about him? I mean it seriously. What tells you guys, "Oh Heck No" with some stallions? Its good knowledge to know  or is he just not your type for your girls? I made that sound weird, hope that made sense


First, I'll admit that I HATE those cheezy, really poorly photo shopped ads, they can actually make the horse look worse than he is. Conversely, if they try to 'shop the horse's conformation, it's harder to tell when the whole image has been 'shopped onto a background. So when I see one of those, I'm instantly maybe a little more critical of the horse being advertised. 

So, what don't I like? I don't like his back that looks long enough to fit a family of 4, I don't like his overall just coarse look, I don't like that I can't see his feet in the pic, I don't like how his legs look short for his body (photo angle, how it was shopped? I don't know, can't tell because of the way they did the ad), I don't like how upright he appears to be in his front pasterns, don't like that he looks back at the knee and sickle hocked (that may be from the angle of the photo and the shopping job but ????), and I don't like the way he looks like they yanked him out of the pasture and dusted him off for the photo. The whole web site is cheezy and cheap looking. Not one of his foals made me stop and say, 'HMMMMMMM I wonder if I bred him to xxxx, would I get that good a foal?'. 

My overall first impression of the horse was, "OH ...... JEEZ....never mind, NEXT!". If you can take several windows and put the pics of Big Sensation, that one and the Bravenet page up and just go from one to the other and LOOK hard at the ads first, the horses over all 2nd and then anything that looks wonky or off 3rd, try to really zero in on it. 

Big Sensation's page is very professional and most of what you need to know is on it, his stud fee, his contract, it's all right there. I would like to see his test results posted right up front, but that's just me, as long as they disclose that's all that's really required. The Bravenet page isn't as professional looking but it has all the info to get you to look and inquire for more info if you're serious about breeding to one of their stallions. They need to get a contract up, ASAP, if I clicked on the link and it wasn't there, I'd go right on to the next horse. There are too many good stallions out there to not find the basic info on their pages. I don't dislike the Bravenet horse at all, he actually looks pretty good confo wise. The only way I'll use an outside stallion is if I think he might throw an awesome foal with Honey Boo Boo, and she's a chestnut APHA. And then I'm hoping for a filly that I could ultimately breed to my stallion. I particularly liked several of Big S's foals, could see how he might produce with Boo.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Left Hand Percherons said:


> I find it interesting that the 2 breeders in the discussion don't have a problem with perpetuating a recessive fault that could easily be bred out in one generation. Is the genetic contributions these carrier horses provide too important to the breed?


I don't believe in throwing the baby out with the bath water. If my mare is OLWS neg (she is) and 5 panel neg (she is), then breeding to an OLWS carrier is a non-issue, as is the Herda carrying status of the stallion. They are recessive and take 2 copies to cause problems. All things being equal, I would go with the stallion who carries none of the issues, but if I particularly liked a certain stallion who carried recessives, I certainly wouldn't hesitate. My goal as a breeder, IF I had a carrier, would be to breed a clear foal that was better than his/her parents, but still had the attributes I was looking for. 

As long as the stallion owner discloses their horse's status, then the mare owner can make a responsible decision. I think that breeding is between the stallion owner and mare owner, and so long as all are well informed, then they don't need me to dictate their choices. Yes, demand a 5 panel test and I would want an OLWS test in those breeds who carry it, but I don't consider a positive result, especially with OLWS only on 1 side, to be grounds to cull a horse from the breeding shed.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Again, OWLS is a color nothing more. I can think of a million more "natural" examples of genes that cause problems in certain forms. Just don't breed it together. It seems a little silly to rule out a horse based on a color pattern when the consequences are easily avoided.

Herda, as a disease I would be inclined NOT to breed the horse, but for a horse in every other way phenomenal I would consider it to a Non Carrier only. I would still typically not breed this.

Well if I bred horses LOL. Just explaining my "morals".

I do NOT like Mr Tramp either. Think he should've been gelded awhile ago.


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## Left Hand Percherons (Feb 1, 2011)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> As long as the stallion owner discloses their horse's status, then the mare owner can make a responsible decision.



And this is the problem. Stallion owners are not being forthright with disclosure of their status because they don't have to. Many mare owners do not know what they need to ask to be responsible breeders. There are breeders knowingly breeding carriers to carriers because they feel for that 25% chance of producing an afflicted horse is a small price to pay for a superior prospect. Tell that to the horse. Buyers don't know what they need to ask to be responsible buyers. You can't test a horse you do not own. You just have to look at all the AQHA H/H stallions that have moved over to APHA barns because they aren't allowed to be used on AQHA mares to know it's all about the money.

It's not apples to apples but the continued backlash of Impressive horses is interesting. I can do thing to control HYPP through diet, management and exercise but I can't do much of anything with a Herda afflicted horse other than put it down or have a pasture ornament for life.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Left Hand Percherons said:


> And this is the problem. Stallion owners are not being forthright with disclosure of their status because they don't have to. Many mare owners do not know what they need to ask to be responsible breeders. There are breeders knowingly breeding carriers to carriers because they feel for that 25% chance of producing an afflicted horse is a small price to pay for a superior prospect. Tell that to the horse. Buyers don't know what they need to ask to be responsible buyers. You can't test a horse you do not own. You just have to look at all the AQHA H/H stallions that have moved over to APHA barns because they aren't allowed to be used on AQHA mares to know it's all about the money.
> 
> It's not apples to apples but the continued backlash of Impressive horses is interesting. I can do thing to control HYPP through diet, management and exercise but I can't do much of anything with a Herda afflicted horse other than put it down or have a pasture ornament for life.


I don't disagree with you in principle, the stallion owner's need to be forthright. At least AQHA is requiring that the 5 panel test be on file for ALL breeding stallions from 2015 on, so a mare owner can always check with AQHA for status if they feel the stallion owner is not forthcoming. 

As I said, I would prefer to use a stallion who is clear of all the issues but if the horse is otherwise phenomenal and it is a recessive issue, I would use the stallion as long as my mare was known to be clear. 

APHA is no longer allowing the registration of H/H HYPP horses, so that's going to sort itself out pretty quickly. They will soon not be having any more than N/H for HYPP, NOT that I think that is desirable because I don't, but it's an improvement. I'm seeing more and more ads in the Journal for stallions who are heavily line bred Impressive but have tested clear for HYPP and their owners are showing them to big wins and really promoting them. It's going to sort itself out eventually, it just takes time. 

Unfortunately you can't legislate morality and ethics, either you've got them or you don't, and that's in every facet of life. 

My choice for an outside stallion? Quarter Horses for Sale, Paint Horses, Reining Horses for sale at Hilldale Farm

He's negative on the 5 panel and his father, at least, was OLWS negative too. So, if he carries it and I don't think he does, the worst that could happen if I used him would be the foal would carry OLWS too. My mare for this breeding is clear of everything, so no problems. Would this stallion work for the OP? I don't know, he doesn't look anything like what she's been looking at.


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## FoxRidgeRanch (May 20, 2008)

So nix Mr Tramp, how about this gentleman Hot One Only, AQHA Stallion 

Not sure I like his head structure and I'm not finding his panel if he's had one done, maybe someone else will see it or knows. Seems like he has been tried all around and done decently.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

FoxRidgeRanch said:


> So nix Mr Tramp, how about this gentleman Hot One Only, AQHA Stallion
> 
> Not sure I like his head structure and I'm not finding his panel if he's had one done, maybe someone else will see it or knows. Seems like he has been tried all around and done decently.


You realize he's race bred? And an Appendix, not fully reg'd AQHA?


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## FoxRidgeRanch (May 20, 2008)

I couldn't find anymore decent studs that do more then look pretty or just one discipline. Lol I was getting desperate.


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## FoxRidgeRanch (May 20, 2008)

Maybe I'm being too picky :S


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

FoxRidgeRanch said:


> Maybe I'm being too picky :S


There's no such thing as too picky. The main things you need to do are to figure out your mare's strong and weak points, what you'd like to fix and what you'd like to reinforce. Get her tests done so you're operating from a knowledge base, not guessing, and then figure out what do you want from the foal. Halter? Performance of some type? Keep or sell? Then go looking for the stallion you think will fill your "wishlist" out the most completely. While you're doing all that, start dropping $20 or more into a savings regularly, for all the stud fee, shipping fees, breeding fees and pregnancy expenses. I figure roughly $7500 at the LEAST when I use an outside stallion.


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## hyperkalemic4 (Dec 8, 2014)

Maybe before you decide on APHA you should get a recent APHA magazine! you might change your mind if you are real confirmation critic. There were horses in there that had like double muscling like those big blond cattle, some so post legged, and so wide chested that I would think they would not have any athletic ability at all. Yes they are great for holding up halters but you do not see a lot of them compared to AQHA in the performance circles/


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

I have liked following this APHA stallion on Facebook and seeing pictures of him and his many foals and their successes. They are limiting their breeding now and being more selective, offering frozen semen if the mare is unable to travel to them. He is completely clear on all genetic diseases and has been very successful in all sorts of disciplines. 

QTsGold Mastercard | 2003 Buckskin Homozygous Tobiano Stallion


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> I don't disagree with you in principle, the stallion owner's need to be forthright. At least AQHA is requiring that the 5 panel test be on file for ALL breeding stallions from 2015 on, so a mare owner can always check with AQHA for status if they feel the stallion owner is not forthcoming.
> 
> As I said, I would prefer to use a stallion who is clear of all the issues but if the horse is otherwise phenomenal and it is a recessive issue, I would use the stallion as long as my mare was known to be clear.
> 
> ...


I don't like this one either, sorry. His hind leg is too straight, his hocks look capped and puffy, and his shoulder looks shallow.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

I could not find any conformation shots of MasterCard.....but I LOVE all his ancestors! 
He really looks like a GOOD horse to me. You would have to haul to CA, though.

Our paints were bred out of those same foundations, they were champions in halter, way back when(1972-1978),but also cutting, reining, pleasure, and then I came along and showed them in English. That's why I am partial to an all around horse, and it makes me a bit tick-y for the "bred for (one specific arena competition)"discussion to come up, lol! 

Sorry, back to FoxRidge ranch's stallion discussion......


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

I have always liked this stallion Classy Will - Kruger Ranch LLC.  Have seen several of his offspring showing & they are very nice looking :wink:


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