# Aggressive horses?



## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

I have 2 horse and a POA. The 2 horses have been pastured by themselves for the last couple years and the POA came from a similar situation, with different horses. When I was messing with them yesterday, one of the horses chased the POA off. I hadn't seen this before. They have been pastured together for almost 3 weeks. The question is this. Will they learn to get along after they've been together longer? Is this a correctable action? if so, how? Will I likely have problems with other horses? The horse that did the running off is the most trained but if she only gets along with one horse and it's not fixable, she'll have to go down the road. I am new to horses so any help would be appreciated. I am not feable however. I just want to approach the situation the right way. Seperating them indefinately isn't an option.


----------



## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Horses have to determine their social hierarchy and this usually involves some arguing/fighting. They may end up being best friends. The main thing that I would watch is to make sure that the pony cannot be trapped in a tight spot so that he can’t get away. If you feed them together, they may fight. This is something that they have to work out for themselves. Occasionally, one of the horses may get hurt, but they usually learn to get along. 

I have one really old pony that I have to keep separated because the others will not let him eat. He is around 30 years old. He can go out in the pasture with the others, but feeding together is out. Anybody want a pony?


----------



## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

Eating isn't an issue. 3 horses in 12 acres of 2' high grass/alfalfa. The people I got her from said she wouldn't gain any weight but she is already looking pudgy. I didn't call her a pony because she's barely smaller than the horse that chased her. My thought is that they shouldn't be on the trail together until they get it figured out then. Do we all agree? Or would they be better in an area that's not their home turf? I am approaching this as a dog guy. So I am learning. With dogs it would have to be corrected.


----------



## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

Where I come from getting along in the pasture(their turf) and behaving under saddle are different things. Sure it helps if they are friends but it's not a factor in if or when I take them together. Just means you make sure they can't pick at each other, etc and if they do you correct immediately. I also do not allow any bossybutties when I'm in the middle of it, ie pasture. Everybody gets in trouble then. When riding watch for signs of bad attitudes. wringing tails, laid back ears, threats toward another horse.. Immediately correct when you see this..


----------



## pintophile (May 18, 2011)

One of our "herds" is pretty much the exact same as this- two horses, pastured together for about a year, then a pony added a few months ago. From my own experience, and from what I was told even before I brought the pony home, no, it's not likely they will ever be best buds. 

For the first while, the "middle mare" would attack the pony whenever it got within 40 feet of her, and after she ended up hurting herself while trying to hurt the pony, I put a stop to it. After I punished her for going at the pony, all the severe aggression has cleared up.

By now the formerly aggressive mare and the pony will eat at the same round bale and graze together etc, but it's still fairly obvious that the two horses have a little friendship together and they tend to "exclude" the pony-like a bunch of little girls on the playground 

Basically, long story short, horses will be horses in the pasture. I personally don't want mine pinning ears at each other or fooling around when I'm within 20 or 30 feet, but some people do. If the horse doing the chasing is well trained, I wouldn't worry too much about it-she may not display any aggression when she's on a halter/lead or saddled. If she does start being aggressive when you have her out of the paddock, be sure to punish her.


----------



## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I agree. I don't think riding on a trail will be an issue just so the riders control their horses. I did have one mare that thought it was great sport to bite the horse in front of her on the backside. I had to keep a watch to not let her get too close.


----------



## bbsmfg3 (Aug 12, 2010)

quote:" she "
endquote

You defined your problem. Not likely she will ever be kind to the other horses. 

That's exactly why we have geldings. Got tired of the mare-ish syndrome of dominance. Now that is not to say some geldings are not just as bad, but not usually.


----------



## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

^^ :roll: 


Yeah, sweeping generalizations are great. My only problem horse is one of my geldings, and he only aggresses against other geldings. And I have 4 mares.


To the OP, the horse in my avi is a dominant gelding that likes to have a go at any new male horse I bring on the property. One of the best things I have found for this behavior is TO take the two out together. Trailering together tends to be a bonding experience for horses. Taking my bully and the horse he is being aggressive towards off property, and trail riding the two together off property, seems to go a ways in easing dominance issues at home. Not resolving them completely - nothing but time will do that - but it does seem to speed the settling down process. 

Everything else, I handle the same way AppyT suggests. I let them pretty much hammer it out amongst themselves (providing it doesn't get too nasty out there of course) and only get involved if they act nasty when I am present out there among them, or if they are working.


----------



## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

We dealt with this at the Girls Scout horse camp I worked at last fall. The mares we were using were kept together in two of the arenas when they weren't working (no individual stalls, just turned out in the arenas). When we were giving lessons in the arenas, there were certain horses we absolutely could not have near each other because of the social hierarchy they had developed in the arena. However, once out on the trail, you could put two mares who absolutely LOATHED each other in the arena right on each others' tails and never have a problem.

As a couple people have said: behavior in the turnout/pasture and behavior under saddle are two completely different things and most well-trained horses recognize this.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Bearkiller 

I kind of perked up my ears when I read that you have the horses on 12 acres of deep alfalfa grass. I think that you might have some problems with the pony, or even the horses, if they have come from an environment where they are not getting so much grass on a regular basis, and if the pony is looking puffy, more the worry.

Horses that go from a diet that isn't rich, especially without access to fresh grass, and then are suddenly put out to graze on deep, high sugare content grass cand develop a serious illness called "laminitus" It is very serious and can lead to permanent lameness and even to the point of needing to put down the animal.

Since you are so new to horses, I would really recommend that you enlist the help of someon who really knows horses to help you with some of this. Horses can be like aliens to humans who have no experience with them. They are very different from any cat or dog, and of course, can be dangerous if not understood correctly.

Your other post about the horse in your face indicates that you might be viewing them a bit too much like a big, snuggly dog or cat. Not that at all! 

And with regard to the mare chasing the other away, this is totally horse behavior. It only lasts for a sec and they will work out their relationship and live more peacefully than two humans might ever be able to do.


----------



## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

The pony came from a similar field so I think she'll be ok. The others maybe not so much. Mostly dirt but were fed alfalfa hay year around. I'd say the field I have them in is not more than 30% alfalfa. Think that's too much? I honestly do appriciate the input. Now I know what to watch for. I don't have any place to put any of them that's not tall grass and alfalfa mixed. Even my corals have tall grass right now. It's been a really wet spring/summer.

I come from a working dog (hounds)back ground and have very little use for useless animals. So if these horses don't work out they'll go down the road until I get some that do. I don't see them as big cuddly dogs. I can't stand any animals getting into my personal space. I just wanted to verify that this was inappropriate. When he did it, all I was doing is pushing him back. I didn't know if this was enough or if he needed more discipline.


----------



## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Not all hounds work for a living. Take a look at mine. She is the epitome of laziness. Pure love and laziness. (She will not be bred by the way.)


----------



## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

LOL. I wish mine would relax like that. I don't think they even know how. I hunt bear, mt lion, bobcat, and **** with mine. They are pretty much hunted year around. I have 5 in my kennels.


----------



## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Well poor old Blue once treed a raccoon. When it finally came down, she tried to make friends. She would probably kiss a bear. It is not too hard to figure out why her previous owner abandoned her. lol

To me, she is the perfect dog.


----------



## pintophile (May 18, 2011)

Celeste said:


> Well poor old Blue once treed a raccoon. When it finally came down, she tried to make friends. She would probably kiss a bear. It is not too hard to figure out why her previous owner abandoned her. lol


Our 20 lb Jack Russell tried to attack a bear cub a few years ago when my dad took her to the hunt camp up north. She had to spend most of that trip locked in the truck, or else she would have been bearsnack :lol: She doesn't realize how small she is-she'll jump on anything and fight to the death, and she's got the scars to prove it. She's killed possums and groundhogs that are bigger than she is. Dad usually has to help her kill the bigger groundhogs and raccoons, though.


----------



## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

I had a JRT mix that I used for hunting and he wasn't afraid of bears and never got hurt. They are quick.


----------



## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

I generally let the horses get somewhat acquainted over the fence for a couple days then throw them together. They'll work out their pasture rankings in short order, might be a few bite and kick marks but that's horses for you. 

The only time you really have a long lasting issue is when throwing two extremely dominate horses together. Had a friend with that situation and it seemed the top spot switched every other week. I would of sent one down the road myself just to maintain pasture peace.

As for trail riding, just watch the ears and tails of your surrounding horses. Those will give you tell tales of how well the horses get along, adjust your spacing accordingly to avoid kicks/bites. Most horses have a bubble, figure out how big that bubble is and keep your horse outside of it.

As a rule of thumb for trail riding:

-Mares don't like geldings to close on their tails unless they are really good buddies. Think of the good looking gal sitting at a bar with every guy in the joint hitting on her, she'll get more then a little testy.

-Mares may or may not get along with each other. Mares used as broodmares tend to let their feelings known more then non broodmares.

-Geldings generally get along but if two take a real dislike to each other look out.


----------



## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

Bearkiller said:


> LOL. I wish mine would relax like that. I don't think they even know how. I hunt bear, mt lion, bobcat, and **** with mine. They are pretty much hunted year around. I have 5 in my kennels.


That sounds like a blast! My hubby & I upland bird hunt with our drathaar & kurzhaar as well as do some blood tracking. Always nice when you can't find a deer. Wish we had big game like that in my neck of the woods! 

You've gotten good advice on the horse side of it. In the pasture I let them sort it out, they will figure out their place in the hierarchy. When I am in the mix that's a huge no no. You did right backing him off, if he gets pushy after asking him to move out of your space, up the ante and increase the pressure.


----------



## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

I appreciate all of the help. I didn't have any issues at all yesterday when I was at the field for a few hours.

I know of a guy in AZ who hunts biggame (bears I believe) with drats. They seem like cool dogs.


----------



## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

What are drathaars & kurzhaars?


----------



## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

German hunting dogs, mostly used for birds in the US. At least that's my understanding.


----------



## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Cool. Where I grew up, bird dogs came in two varieties. Pointers and setters. I don't have an interest in hunting, so I haven't kept up. It may be a good thing I don't want to hunt since my hound is the laziest animal alive.


----------



## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

They are relatively new to me as well. German hunting dogs anyway. I've had traditional hounds for 17 years. That makes me feel old. True none the less. :lol:


----------



## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

This is my first hound. This is the only time in 30 years that I have been without a labrador. I went duck hunting once. Almost froze to death. Spent the entire time praying that the ducks would not show up so I would have to shoot at them and then get all frozen worse from the ice water. None showed up. Lol. Guess I'm not into the spirit of hunting.


----------



## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

They are both German import bird dogs. Kurzhaar's are essentially what americanized German shorthairs came from. Drats are similar to a wirehaired pointer. Drats are used a lot as utility dogs. We hunt pheasant, quail & blood track with ours. I will post a few pics when I'm done in the barn 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

The good thing about hound hunting is the ability to release your prey. 90% of the critters I catch with my dogs will be released. It also allows for select harvest. With the exceptions of raccoons, I don't let any females caught with my dogs get killed. It's a little hard to sex a raccoon at night.  I get to take my kids to the woods pretty much year around. Let them see lots of cool stuff that 99% of the kids in the world would be jealous of and it's still there next time.


----------



## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Cool. German shorthairs are nice dogs. One of the guys in the band I play in has one.


----------



## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Bearkiller said:


> The good thing about hound hunting is the ability to release your prey. 90% of the critters I catch with my dogs will be released. It also allows for select harvest. With the exceptions of raccoons, I don't let any females caught with my dogs get killed. It's a little hard to sex a raccoon at night.  I get to take my kids to the woods pretty much year around. Let them see lots of cool stuff that 99% of the kids in the world would be jealous of and it's still there next time.


That's the way I go fishing. Catch and release.


----------



## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

Me, too. Unless I'm deep sea fishing. I don't keep any fresh water fish.


----------



## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I went fishing and my horse bit me. Not really, it is just that I wanted to be sure that nobody accused us of wandering from the subject. Lol. I was on another thread, and people got all emotional about subject change. So if your horse kicks, bites, and throws you off, get your bird dog and go fishing. There. Neatly tied together. 

I really should be riding right now, but it is still 95 degrees at 6:40 pm.


----------



## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

My experience is that most threads that go for more than 2 or 3 pages are either off subject or an argument. At least this was only off subject. LOL


----------



## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

It is actually one of the more happy threads going on right now. I feel bad that I was too lazy to fight the summer heat today....


----------



## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

Celeste said:


> I went fishing and my horse bit me. Not really, it is just that I wanted to be sure that nobody accused us of wandering from the subject. Lol. I was on another thread, and people got all emotional about subject change. So if your horse kicks, bites, and throws you off, get your bird dog and go fishing. There. Neatly tied together.
> 
> I really should be riding right now, but it is still 95 degrees at 6:40 pm.


Dogs & Horses go together! 

As promised, some doggy photos 

Here's Dell - the Kurzhaar






















and Birko the Drathaar


----------



## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Nice dogs! Very pretty.


----------



## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

Thank you


----------



## pintophile (May 18, 2011)

Dogs and horses definitely go together! Here's my trail riding buddy, waiting for me to get going:


----------



## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Looks like great fun! We have started putting my hound in the pen when we ride. She loves to go, but we have to go near a highway to get to our main riding road. She walks out in the highway and stands there. Then after almost giving me a heart attack, she runs along with us for a while. Then she darts off into the woods, which is fine. What is not fine is that she comes bolting out of the woods right under the horses and almost gives my crazy Arab a heart attack. I figure that if she keeps going along, either she or I or both are going to die from it. Too bad because if she could behave, she would really have fun. We do take her on long walks though.


----------



## pintophile (May 18, 2011)

Nina will come along-but only if you invite her. She'll sit in the shop yard and wait for you to mount up, and then when you start moving, you have to call her if you want to take her. If you don't speak to her, she'll just stand there and watch you ride away and then wander off to find something else to do. It's kinda weird, 'cause nobody taught her to.


----------



## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

My dog assumes that everybody in the world would want her company.
There is a little church down the dirt road from us that meets early in the morning once a month. They say that she attends the services on a regular basis. I got to the place to vote a few weeks ago, and she was laying in the voting precinct. She tried to hide from me so I wouldn't make her go home. I had to go on to work, but I called my husband and asked him to come get her.


----------



## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

It's true about hounds. They are wanderers by nature. And quite social. They'll just go hunt for hours and hours if left to themselves. My wife would really like to get an australian sheperd now but I'm not sure it's a good idea. I've already got six dogs and the local law only allows three. They don't harrass me about them but I can imagine it's only a matter of time if we get more.


----------



## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Bearkiller said:


> My wife would really like to get an australian sheperd now but I'm not sure it's a good idea. I've already got six dogs and the local law only allows three. They don't harrass me about them but I can imagine it's only a matter of time if we get more.


Maybe you could tell them that you are bad at math..........

My husband and I live too far out in the sticks for anybody to care about 
how many pets we keep. My sister has always kept Australian shepherds and they have been great dogs for her.


----------



## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

Not us. Our town is in the sticks but I have neighbors on 2 sides.


----------



## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

We have neighbors on each side, but they are 1/4 mile or so away. If they don't call the law on me for playing the blues too loud, I won't call the law on them for parking their log truck in the middle of the road..............


----------



## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

I'm a little jealous. I wish I lived that far out. I am 3 1/2 hours from the nearest "city" though.


----------



## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I am 90 miles from Atlanta. I don't go there much. I am less than 50 miles from Macon. It is a little easier to navigate, but not too safe after dark.


----------



## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

Celeste said:


> I am 90 miles from Atlanta. I don't go there much. I am less than 50 miles from Macon. It is a little easier to navigate, but not too safe after dark.


 
Georgia is pretty. But too hot. I can handle -20 in the winter to have my 80-90 degree summers. 

BTW, the horses are getting along much better now.


----------



## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I'm glad your horses are getting along.

Oh, and this woman don't shovel snow...........


----------



## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

Do any? :shock:


----------



## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

We try not to............


----------

