# Critique My Warmblood?



## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

As well, what do you think of his weight? He used to be unbeleivably skinny, and we've brought up his weight by about 250 pounds. Does he look like he's at a healthy weight now?


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

He looks much older than the age you've stated. I think this is primarily because he still needs to pack on some more pounds and get some more muscle tone.


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

Really? How old would you say he looks? And what muscles do we need to build?


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

I would have guessed that he was in his late teens or early twenties by looking at the photos. He needs his entire topline built up (his back, haunches, and neck) as well as more abdominal strength. I'd start with some fairly long, low and easy longeing over some ground poles.


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

Thanks. I'll definitely work on that!

Here's a photo from last winter for comparison... look at those hip bones :/


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Hailey1203 said:


> Thanks. I'll definitely work on that!
> 
> Here's a photo from last winter for comparison... look at those hip bones :/


What would possess you to be riding him at that point of being so underweight?


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

Thats not actually me in the photo, but my trainer told me he would be fine for light riding.


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## RoosHuman (Dec 27, 2011)

He looks much better compared to that photo. I would get his hoofs trimmed, pack on a few more pounds, and lightly exercise him 3-4 times per week. Then post pics for confirmation!


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

RoosHuman said:


> He looks much better compared to that photo. I would get his hoofs trimmed, pack on a few more pounds, and lightly exercise him 3-4 times per week. Then post pics for confirmation!


Thanks  I moved him to a new barn, where he is actually getting the food he needs. So he is slowly but surely putting on weight. I'll definitely work on building up muscle too.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

IMO he needs more weight. Have you read his teeth? I see an older horse in the front of his legs (skin sags), the sinking above his eyes, the lack of weight behind his forearm, 
and his back--here is a picture of my high withered 6yo KMH for comparison










I keep _Him_ on the slim side bc the TWH that I bought as a 19yo died of Cushing's disease at 24yo, and he's a big guy (16'3hh.)

Teeth tell a horse's age. Here's what to look for:
http://www.aghr.com/images/teeth3.jpg
http://www.richardbealblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/teeth-187x300.jpg
http://www.cowboyshowcase.com/images/galvayne01.gif
reading a horses age by teeth - Bing Images
THIS picture of of a 14yo horse's teeth, for reference. Galyvayne's groove has travelled about 1/2-way down (or up) from the gums.
An 11yo would have just a little stain starting at the gums. A 20yo will have the full line, to to bottom. After 20 years, the groove begins to recede, until age 30, but by then the horse does look old.
I think your horse is about 23yo.
I'd be happy to be wrong.


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

Guys... his age isnt in question, I know exactly how old he is. I have his registration papers. This is a confomation thread, not a "second gues my horses age". Thank you.


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## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

I would definitely say more weight is the biggest thing, then once you have that up to par slowly start working him and get that muscle tone up! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Sorry, I wasn't trying to question *YOU*, but I do know that people have sold horses before with the _wrong_ papers. I can say that he looks a lot older than 11yo, BUT, don't get angry, it's JUST my opinion bc he doesn't look great.
Re: his weight, he needs a LOT more. I had an OTTB with a big weight problem. There are several threads here with good advice. MY recipe was to feed Purina Equine Senior, and top-dress 3 flakes of grass hay with 2 flakes of alfalfa/2x a day.


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

I am working on it! We went from a 48" girth to a 52". So there is obviously an improvement. What is everyone opinion on this though. Once he's at a good weight, and muscle tone, will his conformation allow him to excel at jumping?


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

Corporal said:


> Sorry, I wasn't trying to question *YOU*, but I do know that people have sold horses before with the _wrong_ papers. I can say that he looks a lot older than 11yo, BUT, don't get angry, it's JUST my opinion bc he doesn't look great.
> Re: his weight, he needs a LOT more. I had an OTTB with a big weight problem. There are several threads here with good advice. MY recipe was to feed Purina Equine Senior, and top-dress 3 flakes of grass hay with 2 flakes of alfalfa/2x a day.


Right now he's on free choice hay in his field. When i bring him in, should i be giving him some sort of supplement as well?


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

First, **hugs**, I KNOW what it's like to have a horse that had trouble gaining weight. It takes a LONG time, and everybody asks you why you don't feed your horse. :-x You just want to smack 'em!!
Ask your Vet about supplements.
I'd like to say, yes, he's a good jumping candidate EXCEPT your trainer said, light work. I'd want to ask that trainer his/her (?) opinion on this.
The bone structure suggests jumping ability.


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

Last summer he was shown in the 2'6 hunters, and did phenominal. Came home with 2 1sts and a 3rd. I'm only jumping him about 2 feet right now, because my postition needs work. I personally dont think he'll ever compete much higher then 2'9, but thats fine with me. 

I'll talk to the vet next time she's out for sure.

Im with a new trainer now. I was at a Morgan Breeding Barn before, i was the only one with a warmblood, and the only one jumping. So i figured it was about time to switch to somewhere my horse and i fit in!


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

What I see is an older horse and one that has been around a bit.

He looks a kind gentleman and has put weight on since you bought him but still needs more on him.
I would bet you my last dollar that he is seriously misaligned through his hind quarters and shoulder.
I see this because of lack of top line and muscle over his quarters.
He has from the one picture a straight shoulder and he also has a club foot on his left front. 

I am sure he will do the job you want and as long as he does and you love him what does it matter?

Good luck to you both.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

OP I have a Dutch Warmblood too that has trouble keeping weight. Same age and height.. but not breeding. He's crossed with a paint I believe, and has a lot of drafty features. No papers on him.

Right now he is BLOOMING on Triple Crown Senior, which he gets twice a day, free choice hay, and free choice salt. 

Just to show you a difference of.. just shy of 3 weeks? (links not pics so I don't mess your thread up)

Then

http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n470/MuzminMuffin45/041812180742.jpg

Now:

http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n470/MuzminMuffin45/051012183529.jpg

And after I moved him after getting ownership:

http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n470/MuzminMuffin45/SKY/P1350389.jpg?t=1312950144

Make sure the teeth are good, there aren't any worms, consider adding a probiotic to his diet so he can soak up all the good stuff in his diet. 


Best of luck!


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Sorry for the double post...

One thing I will add in topline comes with your horse using it correctly. Since he's got really nothing going on I would start with it on the ground, with belly lifts. There's a whole thread I made about stretching and muscle building, with links to really cool stuff. 

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/stretches-muscle-building-your-horse-108730/

Hope that helps, once he bulks up and gets to a good weight and has a nice topline, I'm sure you'll be able to do anything with him


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## KennyRogersPaints (Jan 9, 2011)

He is a nice looking horse, just needs some help with his feet (the angles look different on his front feet, but I have seen some crazy things conformation wise with TB crosses) if I were you I would put a little more weight on him and really start to try and improve his topline.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

Thanks for the feedback guys! I know his teeth are fine, he just got them done a few weeks ago. I noticed something wonky with his feet too, but they are due for a trim. I dont think his front left is a club foot though? None of the farriers who've done his feet have said anything about it.

Thanks for the feed suggestions Sky, as well as the stretching ideas! Your horse is beautiful by the way!


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Hailey1203 said:


> Thanks for the feed suggestions Sky, as well as the stretching ideas! Your horse is beautiful by the way!


Thanks! Your boy is too  

Keep us updated!


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

Will do! Im going out tonight, and im going to try some of the things you suggested. Especially the back lifts!


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

All that everyone else said.. he looks like he has a lot of MILES on him (and sometimes it ain't the AGE but the MILEAGE). I too wonder about the age (papers or not). The coat is a bit long.. and his stance as well as how he hs greyed out says this to me. I would LOVE good photos of his teeth!  This does not mean a BAD thing BTW, just age is what it is and you have to feed and ride accordingly. 

He is a bit bench kneed and like he may have some arthritis in his front fetlock joints (notice the boney protrusion to the outside on both). His hind leg is set a bit far back and he is a bit bow legged behind. He has a long back that is swayed. 

He could benefit, as other have said, from good groceries. I would be offereng this boy some extras in the form of some alfalfa cubes and a quarter cup of corn oil in his food 1X a day. Both will help with his weight (and his coat). As to riding, he needs hill work.. long trots up hill on a losse rein.. and trotting over cavelletti to help him develop stomach muscles to support and lift his back. 

He has a GREAT expression.. and if his attitude is good and he is sound, that is all that is important. I rode most of my horses well into their 20's if it turns out someone has been a bit dishonest to you with papers and so forth on age. He is still a good horse and you still like him, right?


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## Chopsticks (Mar 11, 2012)

i hate to beat a dead horse...but in the first set of pictures too I had to recheck your post to see his age, I would have guessed in his 20's because of the lack of muscle tone, and it's not just flab like on unworked horses, but he's hollow through the hips and shoulders the way older horses age and shed muscle. I am not doubting his age, just saying he's really got a ways to go with muscling. In the photo from teh winter he looks younger, so i'm also wondering if it's his coat and just a not flattering picture in the first post. on the plus sign, you can see his skeletal structure and it looks good. a little straight through the shoulder, but i like his neck and hock angle. nice legs, good bone. 
i would second the advice and put him on a really good feeding program with muscle building supplements added in. good luck!


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

Im so glad all of you pointed this out to me. Honestly, i was just happy that he had put on weight from last winter. Im definitely going out this weekend to get some feed and supplements. Any suggestions?


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## Chopsticks (Mar 11, 2012)

I'm a fan of triple crown food, I would choose one that's high in fat- maybe mix the training with the senior so he doesn't get too 'hot'. 
Horse Feed Products: Triple Crown Horse Feed Products For Superior Equine Nutrition
I like the medvet line of supplements, personally use the 4/1 HA but it's more of an all around, they also have a muscle building liquid. Not cheap but I have seen the best results with this brand.
horse nutrition, horse supplements, horse vitamins


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Hailey, I was about to try Cocosoya Ultra SP from Smartpak. It helps them gain weight, helps their coat, and also is nice on their stomach.

Or they have Smartgain 4 as well

http://www.smartpakequine.com/cocosoya-ultra-sp--3525p.aspx
http://www.smartpakequine.com/smartgain-4-4505p.aspx?cm_vc=Search


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

horse kind of reminds me of Snowman, the $80 Champion.


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

Chopsticks said:


> I'm a fan of triple crown food, I would choose one that's high in fat- maybe mix the training with the senior so he doesn't get too 'hot'.
> Horse Feed Products: Triple Crown Horse Feed Products For Superior Equine Nutrition
> I like the medvet line of supplements, personally use the 4/1 HA but it's more of an all around, they also have a muscle building liquid. Not cheap but I have seen the best results with this brand.
> horse nutrition, horse supplements, horse vitamins


I'll definitely try the triple crown, he's a little bit lazy, so him getting some more energy definitely isnt a bad thing!


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> horse kind of reminds me of Snowman, the $80 Champion.


 
They do look alike! I just hope my boy has half that jumping talent!


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## RoosHuman (Dec 27, 2011)

Triple Crown Senior is my favorite. We used it and had great results. Unfortunately, there isn't a dealer in our area any more, so we switched to Purina Senior. We still have had great results with it. Our senior is shiny, fit, and happy!


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## brighteyes08 (Jan 20, 2010)

hes got nice, straight legs and I like his neck and shoulder but as the others said, hes really poorly conditioned, even his coat is dull. What is he being fed now? He would look really nice once hes into shape.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

brighteyes08 said:


> hes got nice, straight legs and I like his neck and shoulder but as the others said, hes really poorly conditioned, even his coat is dull. *What is he being fed now?* He would look really nice once hes into shape.


Already been answered.. please read the thread before replying.


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

brighteyes08 said:


> hes got nice, straight legs and I like his neck and shoulder but as the others said, hes really poorly conditioned, even his coat is dull. What is he being fed now? He would look really nice once hes into shape.


Right now he's just on free choice hay. But i get paid thursday and will be going out to get him some better feed and supplements.


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

So, they dont carry Triple Crown Feeds in Alberta. However, Materfeeds are very popular. How does everyone feel about *NRG Horse Ration. http://www.masterfeeds.com/assets/uploads/pages/image/602405%20FB.pdf
*
Then i'll also get some sort of supplement to go with it. Opinions?


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Just be careful not to over feed it.

OP do they have this one??

http://www.masterfeeds.com/assets/uploads/pages/image/Senior%20Pellet%20FB%283%29.pdf

That seems more his speed. It has beet pulp, relatively high fat.. but without going over the top.

Have you talked to your vet about his nutritional needs?


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

Skyseternalangel said:


> Just be careful not to over feed it.
> 
> OP do they have this one??
> 
> ...


 
They do have that one, im still having trouble wrapping my head around the whole "Senior" thing. I didnt think 11 years was that old. 

Vet told me that he was gaining weight nicely, and to keep doing what i was doing! Which, comparing to how he used to be, is true.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Hailey1203 said:


> They do have that one, im still having trouble wrapping my head around the whole "Senior" thing. I didnt think 11 years was that old.
> 
> Vet told me that he was gaining weight nicely, and to keep doing what i was doing! Which, comparing to how he used to be, is true.



It's not the age.. it's the condition.

Senior feed has vitamins and minerals and added high fat content to help skinny malnourished horses gain weight and improve in their condition.

He isn't old at all, old would be like in their late 20s or something. 

Once he gets to a good weight, you could switch him to something else that isn't called "senior" maybe just to straight beet pulp etc. but until then senior feed is your best bet. It covers every hole in your horse's diet.

Making more sense now?


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

Skyseternalangel said:


> It's not the age.. it's the condition.
> 
> Senior feed has vitamins and minerals and added high fat content to help skinny malnourished horses gain weight and improve in their condition.
> 
> ...


Much more sense! 

I know this shouldnt matter, but how soon should i start to see results once i start him on the new feed?


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## Klassic Superstar (Nov 30, 2009)

Within about two weeks


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Hailey1203 said:


> Much more sense!
> 
> I know this shouldnt matter, but how soon should i start to see results once i start him on the new feed?


At least 3 weeks in my experience, but it varies! Could be sooner, could be later. It helps to take photos and weight-tape measure your horse's body and record the estimated weight. Keep track of it on a day to day basis (or as often as you get out there) and you'll know if it's working for him or not.

My horse went from body scale of 2 to a body scale of 4 within... 3 months? but he's a very very very hard keeper, so you should get faster and better results


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

Skyseternalangel said:


> At least 3 weeks in my experience, but it varies! Could be sooner, could be later. It helps to take photos and weight-tape measure your horse's body and record the estimated weight. Keep track of it on a day to day basis (or as often as you get out there) and you'll know if it's working for him or not.
> 
> My horse went from body scale of 2 to a body scale of 4 within... 3 months? but he's a very very very hard keeper, so you should get faster and better results


I'll definitely take pictures, and keep you all update. 

Whats this body scale you speak of!?


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Hailey1203 said:


> I'll definitely take pictures, and keep you all update.
> 
> Whats this body scale you speak of!?



Henneke Body Scoring - Habitat for Horses - Equine Protection Organization - Horse Rescue, Rehabilitation, Horse Education and Adoptions

You have much to learn


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

Skyseternalangel said:


> Henneke Body Scoring - Habitat for Horses - Equine Protection Organization - Horse Rescue, Rehabilitation, Horse Education and Adoptions
> 
> You have much to learn


 
Definitely. But im always willing to lear as much as i can.

Stoney would be about a 3 then?


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Hailey1203 said:


> Definitely. But im always willing to lear as much as i can.
> 
> Stoney would be about a 3 then?


Yeah not a strong 3 though.. but in due time he'll get some meat on his bones 

The ideal is 5, still trying to get my boy there. We're at a really high 4 right now.

And it's a great trait to be teachable!


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

When i got Stoney, he was in between a 1 and a 2. Had been sitting in a field for 5 years, and had hardly been touched. So the fact that he's already put on this much muscle and weight makes me happy. I cant weight to see how he looks all muscled up and shiny!


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

Mirrabook Farms: Kingston Progeny - Keystone

There he is as a 2 year old, it took a ton of research to find this, but im glad i did!


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## brighteyes08 (Jan 20, 2010)

We feed all purina feeds, my horses get hi fat hi fiber and equalizer with oats. I had the vet out for vaccinations last week and he also said that my 17hh gelding who is 1350 lbs could use a tad more weight, hes now getting 4 cups of hifhif, a cup of equalizer and a cup of oats twice a day with free choice hay, they all go on pasture next week in which he will be cut back.


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## Mckellar (Apr 18, 2012)

Just curious, I havn't read all the posts I'm kind of in a rush.. But you said you moved barns, is this you who is doing all the work or do you have a barn manager? They would be very helpfull to ask. And beet pult is a great filler ( use it correctly!!!! ) and to cut down on cost (sort of) Get a alphalfa timothy hay cube ( I would also soak mine....). I don't know how this turned into me giving some idea's on getting weight on but oh well. 

Anyway, your horse looks nice though, you can look at rescue horses who look 10 years older than they are. He looks very sweet and a good horse to have 

... I'm suprised you havn't looked at his teeth though...

Sorry to be away from the original topic...


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

Mckellar said:


> Just curious, I havn't read all the posts I'm kind of in a rush.. But you said you moved barns, is this you who is doing all the work or do you have a barn manager? They would be very helpfull to ask. And beet pult is a great filler ( use it correctly!!!! ) and to cut down on cost (sort of) Get a alphalfa timothy hay cube ( I would also soak mine....). I don't know how this turned into me giving some idea's on getting weight on but oh well.
> 
> Anyway, your horse looks nice though, you can look at rescue horses who look 10 years older than they are. He looks very sweet and a good horse to have
> 
> ...


At the new barn im at, as long as i buy the feed, they'll feed him for me. 

I'm going to get some sort of high fat feed, then a supplement that help build muscle.

You all have my wondering about his age, so i am going to get his teeth checked next time the vet is out


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