# Is this stallion really dun /buckskin



## The Irish horse girl (Dec 29, 2021)

So my friend is expecting a foal from a stallion called killaneen boy he is a Connemara . In Ireland we call every buckskin dun because the passport wouldn’t allow the color buckskin for some reason. This is a stallion in stud in Ireland 🇮🇪 for anybody wondering. I personally don’t think he looks like buckskin I think he looks to dark. I think he looks like a very light golden bay .


----------



## Aprilswissmiss (May 12, 2019)

He certainly looks buckskin to me - not a single hint of the red tint that would indicate bay. Buckskins can come in a range of shades. If you google "sooty buckskin," the results look even darker than him. The sun is also shining on his opposite side in this picture, making the shown side appear a bit darker.


----------



## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

Agree that horse has yellow tones versus red on his body, making me say buckskin. The body tone isn't right for bay dun (that would be more peachy) and doesn't seem light enough for dunalino.


----------



## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

If you look at the stallion's facebook page, they show his pedigree and acknowledge his color is buckskin:








A shame breed registries can't/won't update themselves to reflect current color genetics knowledge!

I hope you will update with pics of your friend's foal when it arrives. Stallion is a looker for sure.


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

A buckskin is a bay that has the cream gene which dilutes the red to palomino coloring. This horse also appears to be sooty. There are examples of buckskin horses so dark you would not think they are buckskin.

Sooty (gene) - Wikipedia There is quite a bit out there and many examples if you Google but this is a good start.

There are no very light golden bays. If the are exhibiting a coat that is gold more so than red then there is something else there diluting the coat.


----------



## My Salty Pony (Jan 1, 2022)

I call him a Dapple Buckskin, hes pretty close to being a Sooty Buckskin. And hes just beautiful!!!! 
Heres a few pictures of a Sooty Buckskin..


----------



## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

He is gorgeous!

Sooty buckskin is a funny color. My Morgan mare is a chameleon- she looks almost black when she’s shedding out in the spring, but is more golden at other points in the year.


----------



## My Salty Pony (Jan 1, 2022)

egrogan said:


> He is gorgeous!
> 
> Sooty buckskin is a funny color. My Morgan mare is a chameleon- she looks almost black when she’s shedding out in the spring, but is more golden at other points in the year.
> View attachment 1123645
> ...


Looks like you get a different horse when the season changes, LOL.. She is a real cutie and so pretty.


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

He is a sooty buckskin. Whether dappled or not it does not change his genetic phenotype.


----------



## The Irish horse girl (Dec 29, 2021)

Tks everyone I have learnt a lot about color I didn’t even know there sooty buckskin. I will post pics when the foal arrives.


----------



## Caledonian (Nov 27, 2016)

The Connemara does not carry the dun gene so has to be buckskin

In Ireland and the UK, we call both colours dun, it's a traditional colour used well before we understood colour genetics. It's from our old languages. 

Buckskin was, and still is for many, a north American description, I understand the difference yet still use dun for both. The breed society, owners, vets and passport options take time to catch up as well.

The majority of horses and ponies here are actually buckskin, you'll find most duns are Highlands and shetlands.


----------



## Old_Man_Doc (Jan 10, 2022)

The UK & Ireland _really _do need to get with the times and start using the correct terminology, science trumps "tradition" every time. We've understood that the cream and dun genes are different for quite some time now and we've had genetic tests to tell us whether a horse is cream or dun (Or both at the same time!) for well over a decade. 

Frankly, the fact that breed societies, owners, veterinarians and passports across the pond continue to reflect information that everyone knows is incorrect just because "We've always called them duns" only makes the whole lot of them look like stubborn, foolish children. 

If they don't want to call their "duns" buckskins because it's an "Americanism", why not just refer to such horses as "heterozygous cream bays"? That's easy enough to understand _without _using a shorthand that's designated for an entirely different color gene!

What does the UK & Ireland call other cream dilutes anyway? Is "Palomino" okay heterozygous cream chestnuts? What about Smoky Blacks? Is there even _any _acknowledgement for the double-dilutes? Do they call such horses Cremello, Perlino & Smoky Cream or something else entirely?

----------------------------------------

@The Irish horse girl 

My Apologies for going on a bit of a rant OP, this is apparently just something that really bothers me. Regardless, the stallion looks like a very handsome horse and if his facebook page is anything to go by, he's out there making a name for himself and passing on a wonderful temperament to his foals. I'm sure your friends' foal by him will turn out lovely. 

Although considering he _is _heterozygous for Hoof Wall Separation Disease, I do hope that his owners are breeding him responsibly and that your friend had her mare tested for HWSD (And that the mare tested clear of the disease!) before having her bred.


----------



## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

There are absolutely tons of buckskin Connemaras and other variations in the breed carrying a cream gene. There’s a breeder in my part of the country and almost all of hers are buckskins.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Oh he's a buckskin, no doubt about that!

I don't think a rant about incorrect terminology is needed when we still have registries who refuse to admit that certain white patterns exist as part of a breed, registries that only give temporary registration until a certain number of foals exhibiting color characteristics are born and so on. There's as much bullheaded stupidity and 'tradition' on this side of the pond as anywhere else in the world.


----------



## Old_Man_Doc (Jan 10, 2022)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Oh he's a buckskin, no doubt about that!
> 
> I don't think a rant about incorrect terminology is needed when we still have registries who refuse to admit that certain white patterns exist as part of a breed, registries that only give temporary registration until a certain number of foals exhibiting color characteristics are born and so on. There's as much bullheaded stupidity and 'tradition' on this side of the pond as anywhere else in the world.


Make no mistake, my ire at breed registries who reject science, discard history & condemn animals who don't meet their artificial requirements to second-class membership extends *worldwide*. My initial comment was focused on the UK and Ireland because those were the most relevant to the OP- Connemaras' originated in Ireland, are popular in the UK and furthermore the OP (And I assume her friend) live on the British Isles. If a similar topic had been posted by an OP living in the US, I would've gone on a rant about American terminology and how "tradition" is no excuse to continue using incorrect terms when science made them irrelevant decades ago.


----------



## Berralracer72 (Oct 25, 2021)

Looks buckskin to me.However i may be wrong with my luck i am lol!


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

His color is much lighter and golden in his video.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

He's a really good looking boy. I'd love to use him on my buckskin QH mare. One of the nicest dressage horses I've ridden is a Connemara/QH cross and he's phenomenal.


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

He is 😍


----------



## Caledonian (Nov 27, 2016)

@Old_Man_Doc - It's not because 'buckskin' is an 'americanism' that we don't use it, we just recognise that it's used by other countries, while we've always used a different one.

It's because dun, in one form or another depending on the original UK native languaes, was used to describe the ponies that roamed the islands and the word remained part of modern English.

The UK and Ireland may continue to use dun, even though we know that there's a difference, or we may move towards buckskin. I've heard and read a mix of opinions amongst friends and on social media.

We don't all use the same colour spectrum. In one of our native languages donn (dun origin) is a brown horse, odhar for a dun horse, donn-dhearg brown red for a bay and blue for a dapple.

I was mearly explaining to the OP why our passport options are the way they are and would please, prefer it without the insults.


----------



## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

That looks like a lovely stallion. You should get permission to post pictures when the foal arrives. My mare is in foal to the Connemara stallion Top Gun. I'm hoping for a buckskin but could also get a bay foal. Still a couple months to wait yet. 



W.H. Topgun (*Gun Smoke x Ballywhim Candace) connemara pony stallion updated 2020


----------



## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

Holy smokes, he is gorgeous! I LOVE Connemaras, and I love buckskins/duns......


----------



## Luna’s rider (Jan 23, 2021)

All I can focus on in this otherwise very interesting linguistic/genetic conversation is how.good.he.looks. Incredible!


----------



## Virginia gold is my horse (Jan 7, 2021)

Beautiful


----------



## RFInukshuk (7 mo ago)

He is buckskin as other have rightly said, Connemara ponies do not carry the dun modifier.

it is found mostly in highland orShetland ponies in the UK but some lines of Irish draft have it and likewise with some lines of Welsh pony.

We cannot say that this stallion is sooty buckskin because sooty is progressive and takes years to develop. Personally, I don’t see sooty buckskin at all with him.


----------



## RFInukshuk (7 mo ago)

Caledonian said:


> @Old_Man_Doc - It's not because 'buckskin' is an 'americanism' that we don't use it, we just recognise that it's used by other countries, while we've always used a different one.
> 
> It's because dun, in one form or another depending on the original UK native languaes, was used to describe the ponies that roamed the islands and the word remained part of modern English.
> 
> ...


you aresort of correct in what you say there. Bay dun was the original colour of the horse and most native breeds were originally bay dun which then mutated to bay dun, black dun or red dun.The dun modifier was then bred out of many bloodlines such as Connemara in favour of more “pretty” modifiers such as cream that causes the buckskin colour on a bay base.
The use of dun for buckskin is down to lack of understanding of the two separate modifiers and a lack of education or willingness to be educated.


----------

