# Breeding Pro's and Con's



## Sadie Giddys Up (Aug 20, 2014)

I have NO breeding experience at all but I figured I would ask you all. I am thinking about eventually breeding my unregistered arabian mare who has no papers(rescued her from the slaughterhouse) eventually before I retire her. My thought process is that I will always want to have a piece of her and think it would be cool to have her baby to train from the beginning. I just dont know that much about breeding or anything like that though. Just wanted to see what everyone on here thought about it. 

Lets be clear though...this is my fun horse, as I trail ride and just use her for pleasure riding  shes my baby!


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## jimmyp (Sep 5, 2013)

I have moved 3 or 4 horses through the farm over the last 4yrs who were bred because someone just had to have a baby from their mare. All of them were bought at a sale barn when people found out that they either had no business fooling with a young horse, or they realized that just because they had blinders on when looking at there loved pet maybe she wasn't exactly breeding material. 

Not knowing what your rescue comes from, makes it hard to say what conformation will be on a foal, there are too many things un known. How do you know your horse is an arabian?

Raising a foal is expensive, beyond breeding (will you do live cover or have semen shipped?), there is the cost of proper nutrition for the mare and foal. you will have 3yrs invested in this by the time you are able to even consider swinging a leg over your baby, if not 4. will yo be breaking the youngster or shipping it off for training? 

where will you be in 3yrs? 

Sometimes the best way to keep a piece of your old horse around is to pull some tail hair and have a bracelet made.

Jim


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## karliejaye (Nov 19, 2011)

Pro's:
~You get to pick the sire and dam

Con's:
~You risk losing your mare in pregnancy or delivery
~No guarantees on the foal's gender, color, personality, height, health, suitability, trainability, soundness.
~The cost of caring for the mare and foal before the foal even reaches the age to begin training usually quickly exceeds the cost of buying an unborke or green broke prospect that meets all your criteria.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

In a situation like yours OP I would estimate that the Cons outnumber the Pros by so much its simply not worth doing.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

So lets say your mare has great conformation, a fantastic temperament, is wonderful under saddle, and capable of producing a foal with lots of market value(this is important if, in the next 30 years, it ever needs to be sold).

Then we'll say that you have the desire, situation and knowledge/support to bring a horse from foal to well broke saddle horse.

we'll say you also have the financial means to do this, and no problem with the 4 year wait time before you are on their back.

then the pros and cons are:

*Pro*
-joy of raising a foal from the beginning
-get to choose the stallion and have a piece of your mare

*Con*
-risk your mare
-higher cost than buying
-no guarantee of color, temperament, size or gender
-minimum 4 years of waiting.

I love my foal, and I may breed again, but it most certainly is more expensive. For me I have a mare that is breeding worthy, and probably the most satisfying aspect of horses is working with the young ones and starting them under saddle. I also really like knowing the sire and dam. I know that there is a pretty good market for the type of foal I've produced, so if I need to sell, finding a buyer and a good home is not going to be a problem. I've already had offers on my colt. This was an essential part of the process for me. If the results of the breeding were not highly likely to be very desirable in the market, correct, athletic and even tempered, I wasn't willing to breed.

I had a friend recently that bought a yearling that is quite nice. Paid $1400, saying that they could afford that, but not something comparable that is broke. So I priced it out. not counting the vet bills, stud fee and foal care, just from a year old till a green broke 4 year old:

-feed. depends on wether boarding or not. lets say 600-2500 yearly in basic care. we'll say $1000 a year just for a nice round number.
-deworming. $60 yearly
-farrier 6x a year x $30 = $180
-vet. say this horse is super healthy, so you do a check up yearly, shots. so $200 per year
-teeth once. $200.
-original cost of the yearling 

so for my friend, it would be $5600, plus two months of training at 4, at around $800 a month, so $7200. Just for three years of care, handling and two months of training. You can buy a very, very nice 4 year old for $7200.


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## Sadie Giddys Up (Aug 20, 2014)

These are all great points! thank you all for sharing!!


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

If your mare has great conformation and a sound trainable mind then I say go for it.
Breed her to a registered arabian and you can register the foal. Just make sure the sire compliments your mare.
It is very rare for a mare to die when foaling.
However if you are inexperienced you need to learn as much as possible and find someone who is knowledgeable to advise you.
Like the others have stated it is cheaper to buy a young prospect or a trained horse than breeding and raising a foal.
There are lots of affordable arabians . My advice is to find one that looks and acts similar to your mare.
If you board then I would suggest that buying a young prospect is the way to go.
Why pay for board for two horses and not be able to ride one for three years.
Arabians mature slower than other breeds and some are not mature enough to break to saddle until 4.
Something I think you should consider. Shalom


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

you could have a sick foal , or a dead foal. Both need the Vet out asap. 
with a sick foal you can spend thousands of dollars and still have a dead foal.


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

The other thing to consider, is that you may not get a horse that is a thing like your mare, or has any of the qualities that you like. But you don't seem like you're wanting to do this anytime soon and are taking the time to educate yourself, which is a good start if you do decide to go that route.


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## BugZapper89 (Jun 30, 2014)

You have about as much chance of having one you like as much as the mare as you do winning the lottery. You know nothing about the mares breeding so you could end up with anything If you don't like what you get , if done correctly you will have thousands of dollars into something that likely will only sell by the pound as nobody else will want it either. Breeding livestock is a business and should be left to the experience


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

BugZapper89 said:


> You have about as much chance of having one you like as much as the mare as you do winning the lottery. You know nothing about the mares breeding so you could end up with anything If you don't like what you get , if done correctly you will have thousands of dollars into something that likely will only sell by the pound as nobody else will want it either. Breeding livestock is a business and should be left to the experience


If the OPs mare has good conformation and is bred to a stallion that compliments the mare the foal will MOST likely have good conformation and will be registered as a half arabian if the sire is a registered pure bred. I have seen half arabians sell for over 25,000. I sold one 3 years ago for 5,000 . There is a market for good half arabians . Your negativity is uncalled for and shows how much you know of the arabian breed. 
I breed horses as a hobby. If I break even I am thrilled. Not everyone breeds to make a profit. Shalom


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## wakiya (Feb 7, 2009)

Another thing to consider when breeding is marketability. It may not be your goal to sell the foal, but if something should happen where you would need it you want to be able to find it a quality home. That means there needs to be a market for the type of horse you intend to produce and that the market isn't already saturated (for example you can't swing a dead cat without hitting 4 quarter horses here so even the really nice ones go cheap).


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

> That means there needs to be a market for the type of horse you intend to produce


 There is ALWAYS a market for well built, good minded, properly trained horses. I could have sold my arab mare 10 times over just based on the fact that she's sound, sane and very well broke. My friend has had several offers on her grade paint/arab/appy, I sold my cousins mare, during the recession, for full asking price(and she's a grade) within 4 hours of putting her up. 

what do they all have in common? sound, well built, attractive, good minded and well trained.

Maybe that's just my market though. The horses I see selling to the meat buyer are untrained, mediocre, poor temperaments, unsound or having significant flaws. There are a lot of these horses, from people who don't know what they're doing, especially people that look at the papers and go "doc bar! It must be well bred" without considering the fact that its not proven, is over all mediocre looking and has a few conformation flaws that are undesirable.


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## wakiya (Feb 7, 2009)

I've seen a well trained sane to ride and drive percheron cross go to slaughter. Never assume. Where I am you can get a well trained Arab cross or quarter horse for free easily. The Horse market varied widely by area.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

a draft is a different market than a saddle horse. I would not buy a draft or draft cross no matter how well trained it was.
a saddle horse of a lighter breed is a different matter. I just sold a grade gelding for 3,000 $ that was well trained and patterned on the barrels. I could not get that for a draft or draft cross. Shalom


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## Cielo Notturno (Sep 12, 2013)

BlueSpark said:


> There is ALWAYS a market for well built, good minded, properly trained horses. I could have sold my arab mare 10 times over just based on the fact that she's sound, sane and very well broke.


I won't say "always" because on a saturated market even perfect horses might not find a good home, but let's just take what you said:

Well built - Is the OP's mare well built herself? Can the OP tell a well built horse from a not-se-well-built? Can the OP choose the right stallion for her mare? 

Good minded - We can assume that the mare is good minded, since the OP is so in love with her. Let's assume too that the stallion is good minded too. There is a good chance that the resulting foal will share the parent's personality, but maybe he won't. 

Properly trained - Finally something that the owner can control, right? I don't know the OP and I don't want to assume anything about her, just generic thoughts: not everyone knows a good trainer, and even worse, not everyone can tell a good trainer from a bad one. I've read horror stories about people sending their young horses to famous trainers, only to have them back barely broken and traumatized if not in horrible physical shape. 
If the trainer is a good one, he/she won't work for free. In 2 months you are not getting a "properly trained" horse, no matter how good the training. So it might take way more time, way more money. 

Sound - Impossible to guarantee that. Some horses are still sound to ride in their thirties, some horses injure themselves when young and are _never_ sound to ride. 

And, we shouldn't forget that this supposedly beautiful, well trained, well mannered, well minded mare that the OP owns was risking the slaughter anyway. Bad things happen even to ex National Champions. 


I think that breeding is something best left to professional breeders; they know about their breed, what is a good match, they have the facilities to accomodate mares and foals, and mostly: they aren't heartbroken if something goes wrong. They might be sad over the lost of a mare or foal, but if they have one dead foal (at birth, or needing to be put down after an accident) in years of breeding, it is just one sad thing that happened, but they do have more beautiful mares and foals and their dreams are not shattered. 

If the owner of a single mare has an accident happening to her or the foal, it _is_ heartbreaking. 

Breeders also have their "name" and knowledges. Some people will buy blindly a horse just because it came from "Famous Name Breeding farm". On the other hand, a single horse owner might not be able to find a buyer who'll fully appreciate his horse. 

Yes, the OP never mentioned that she wants to sell, but sometimes life happens and with so so so many horses going to slaughter every day, one should consider many things before breeding; maybe saving another beautiful, well minded, well trained but unlucky horse from slaughter is just easier.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

> maybe saving another beautiful, well minded, well trained but unlucky horse from slaughter is just easier.


 I was of this mentality for a very long time. Totally anti breeding. I worked with 20+ rescue horses. Some were great, but not exactly what I wanted. Others were horrible messes that looked great but were riddled with training holes that took 10X longer to fix than if I had started them myself. Still others were down right dangerous, with hidden triggers that popped up days or weeks after they came home, or had soundness issues that were not easy to distinguish at purchase time. 
So I decided that buying untouched horses was easier, that way I could rescue, but avoid the hassle. One mare I did everything with from day one. A child could do anything on the ground with her. But she was extremely lazy by nature, and the worst bronc I ever sat on. With her it was that she didn't want to work, and I'm no rodeo rider. She went on to be a cart horse. I had a weanling that seemed great when I bought him off the meat buyer, but turned out awful tempered. What a waste of 2 years.

so where am I now? I got sick of being frustrated, hurt and spending time on horses that were never going to be as good as one I bought from someone who actually cared about what they were producing. I bought a mare off some guy because she seemed to have potential and I desperately needed a saddle horse. She turned out to be one of the best horses I've ever owned. I bred her last year after much research, to a stallion I really liked that complimented her. And I now have a great colt with fantastic confo, a great attitude and gorgeous on top of it. I have already had offers that I refused, and he's not weaned. I took a gamble, and it paid off.
My other mare is from a reputable breeder that is known for his good minded horses. She has been easier to work with and break than any of the rescues I had, and I have no bruises, broken bones or concussions from her either.

I'm not opposed to rescuing, and buying something on the ground is easier, cheaper, and more guaranteed. But for some people, breeding is worth it. I have no way of telling the experience level or knowledge of the OP and the people helping them, nor do I know the quality of the mare, so I really cant say yay or nay when it comes to the breeding game.


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## Sadie Giddys Up (Aug 20, 2014)

It is VERY interesting seeing everyones views on this. So let me give a little background....

Again let me state I have NO breeding experience. I have been around horese my whole life so Im very comfortable with them. I have always been around pleasure riding and little to no experience with people that show horses in dressage and such. This is my very first horse I have ever owned. Im sure I want to breed her because Im so in love with her and shes my first and after hearing horror stories and understanding all of the work invovled in breeding Im starting to lean towards not breeding her. I have only had her for 2 years (since she was 8) and we are still working on a few quirks that she has that Im sure was a learned behavior from another trainer before me. 

There is a lot of talk on here about confirmation and Im not 100% sure what that means. 

This is a green on green situation so I have 2 trainers that are helping me on a weekly basis and we are making a lot of progress. They both believe she would be a great dressage pony because shes beautiful and moves really well--this is confirmation I assume?

Thanks for all of your input!


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

> There is a lot of talk on here about confirmation and Im not 100% sure what that means.


 so, based on what you have said in your last post, I would likely say not to breed, or at least not for a few years down the road, until you have gained more knowledge and experience and can make a more informed decision.

ConFIRMation is having something confirmed, conFORMation is talking about the way something is put together. Having a good knowledge of conformation is practical for every horse person, very useful for anyone considering purchasing or trying to evaluate a horse for a specific discipline, and absolutely essential for anyone thinking of breeding. Essentially your horses conformation is the way it is put together. A good knowledge allows you to know its strengths, flaws and weaknesses and potential things to avoid. For example, a horse that was put together in an awkward or unbalanced manner may have issues with precision sports involving a lot of coordination, a horse with flawed front legs might not be suited to more stressful disciplines, like jumping. When it comes to breeding, knowing the strengths and weaknesses of your mare is essential to picking a complementary stallion.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

there is nothing wrong with drafts or draft crosses. I have seen a lot of draft crosses jumping.
If you would want a draft cross that is 'warmblood ' looking more than draft looking for jumping.
My draft crosses are nice horses.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

I like horses that are refined and "hot". Drafts and draft crosses are not my taste and I am sure there are some nice ones.
I find most QH's boring . 
Arabs and TB's are my type of horse and I do like the hot natured ones more than the calm ones. 
Of course I am getting older and those spirited mares I prefer might be too much of handful one day in the near future. Shalom


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