# Tandum ground driving/training



## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

Your little guys are adorable!!

I came across this conversation recently, I did not read the entire thing, as I do not drive pairs. This conversation is between several different people.
Sorry I did not weed through the unimportant part. I hope it helps a little.

ORIGINAL QUESTION
Can someone direct me to info or advise me on how to ground drive a pair? I have a rock steady driving horse that I'd like to pair up with a green horse. The green horse has been ground driven but I feel she could benefit from driving along side the more experienced horse. I do not have a pairs harness but do have two different harnesses. How does one begin and how/where do you connect the two horses so they work as a pair. Any links to websites, videos etc would be appreciated. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------- 


ANSWERS
It's really not difficult at all. You don't need a pairs harness, but you do need pair lines, a whip (and the ability to use both simultaneously), and another person who can keep up with you and, ideally, knows what they're doing.

Look up how to hook lines. The straight-through line goes on the side the horse works on. The horse are not hooked together except for the lines. Make sure your traces are secured,especially for your first rounds. Lots of info is online, but a very good book for illustrations and pictures is the Work Horse Handbook by Lynn Miller.

Leave new horse's halter on under bridle and have friend lead that horse with a lead rope while you're driving them the first time or two, until both of you catch on. Always carry your whip so you can keep them moving forward. Do lots of turns and stops and starts. When you are comfortable foregoing the lead rope, keep the person walking alongside for a while until you're confident you can control them yourself.

This is just the way I do it... And I drive very gentle, willing ponies. 

Your situation may not mirror mine, but this is what works for me

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can't beat Hardy Zantke's articles on learning to drive a pair, found
here:

Pair Driving 101 | drivingpairs


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


To the person who asked the question about ground driving I would STRONGLY recommend that you start out with 2 horses that are trained and going as singles. Your work with them as a pair will be easier and the end result will be better. If you think about it putting a green horse next to a horse that drives is like tieing some one to a person who knows how to swim and throwing them into a lake hoping the nonswimmer will catch on without being so frieghtend that something bad happens. Take the time to get the green horse going as a single first. I have started many pairs and repaired many pairs. Take the time in the beginning and good luck with the project.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


A video worth viewing is of Boyd Exell long lining a pair of Welsh ponies, on a circle. Boyd Exell 'Long Reining a Pair' on Vimeo. He makes it look easy. Believe me, it is not. You do need a long set of pairs lines, or the handler will be pulled around. Watch Boyd work them at canter!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------


"All this discussion and the video that someone sent reminded me of an old video tape I have of George Bowman long lining a pair of horses, it was in the '80's but I was very impressed. Think the video is called "Driving". " 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


I believe the video you are talking about is "The Horse In Sports: Driving". I have it too and the section with George Bowman is one of my favorite parts. It is a great video, but, some of the marathon scenes just about turned me off ever trying CDE's. I now can enjoy watching it and I also enjoy driving in a CDE. There was a whole series of The Horse In Sports. They were shown on public television, at least in our area. There was show jumping, eventing, and rodeo that was shown here but there may have been even more horse sport videos made.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------


I, too, have that tape of George Bowman ground driving that grey pair, and thought it looked like fun, so was really disappointed that it didn't work for me. Turns out that with the usual connection, you can't keep proper rein contact unless you are directly behind the horses. George must have been using fixed coupling reins do do those figure 8s.

Also, in the early stages when the horses are not used to walking close together, they will have a tendency to swing apart and end up facing each other. I found it helpful to tie the ends of the outside traces together (outside trace to outside trace) with a piece of twine to discourage this.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------


There is a picture in Max Pape's "the Art of Driving" (page 155) and an explanation or Agricultural Vehicles, where the driver walks beside the pair. It looks interesting and might work (I don't really drive a pair, and when I do it is more like controlling a small herd) but just thought I toss it out and let a pair driver comment of its feasibility. (scale of 1 to 10... 10 being why didn't I think of that.... 1 being what were you thinking!!!)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Agricultural Vehicles, where the driver walks beside the pair"

Not having a husband, and a grown son who thinks he should have his own life, I use my ponies when I want to move heavy items. I put bales of shavings or whatever in the carriage, and walk next to or behind it. (Don't tell Hardy.) BUT I drive a pair of drafty old-style Shetland ponies, with relatively calm demeanors. I have shanked bits on them for lots of control -- they can, and have, run though a snaffle. And I don't do this next to traffic, etc.

I don't recommend doing this with "normal" (non-shetty) horses unless you are really experienced -- you could get in A LOT of trouble. Including getting your foot run over by a wheel. (Wonder how I know that?)

I'm not assigning a number because "math is hard".

By the way, only an idiot would try to lead a pair by leading just one horse, because the other-side horse will charge forward and then in front of the one you are trying to lead. (Wonder how I know that?)


----------



## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

I just read your post again you used the correct terminology I thought you refered to a pair as a tandem. I'll keep this post here incase someone else is interested.

two light horses side by side is a pair, draft people call two drafts hitched side by side a team.

Four light horses hitched together is a team, draft people call it several different things, four up or four in hand being two of them.

Two horses one in front of the other is a Tandem. This is Michaelvanessa and his two ponies in tandem.


















I saw this driving trough Amish country last fall. I have no idea what this is called! Six abreast?


----------



## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Yes, I want to do what Michaelvanessa is doing with his (her? Lol) ponies! It would be a nice way to work both at the same time when I'm limited on time. Plus the grey one goes bonkers without the brown one. I don't really care but I know they are VERY noisy in the barn and it irritates everyone. Lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

*driveing tandem or a pair*

hiya you said that you want to drive tandem for your leader you need to use your pad driveing saddle as a trace carier if you can get a back band remade you can have 1 small loop so the trace slides through and your breeching to be replaced as a strap rein carrier ill have to check my harness and take pictures for you so you can study it or i can use tricky as a mock leader with the harness.
on my tandem leader there is another trace carrier strap were the belly band is as i have not driven tamdem i have forgotto slightley.
your traces need to be a little longer with 2 cockeye spring clips as well i will measure them and give you the lengths as well.
the wheeler in the shafts needs rein rosetties on the driveing bridle were the reins pass through to the leader the pad driveing saddle needs a doubble rein terrets so both pairs of reins pass through on small small roler on thre terrets.
the other important thing is your tandem spoons thay fastern via the buckle pin on the wheelers traces on the colla and the front eyes on the spoons thet is were the leaders traces couple up to.
alternativley you can get a set of tandem bars a bar were the trace couples on to the wheelers traces (small traces on the wheeler side of the bar and a smal chain or strap to stop the bar comeing lower then the wheelers knees.
ill have to check things out for you and if you let me know the sizes of your donkeys my ponys is tricky 12hh and tammy 13hh rip and i could trot canter walk i have even gone a flat out bolt to clear the cobwebbs out of them thay were a great team i made a dvd in the school and i dont know how to show you on here.
the other thing i use to lunge them togeather on sepert lunge lines and all on vocal commands i would let them run out in to the circle 20 meters 60 foot and the best way i can discribe it is 2 rockets reaching an orbit around eath spirleing out till one reaches his maximum rein length and the other is slightley in a lower orbit so to speak thay work side by side.
it takes a lot of practice and a great deal of patents to reach this stage.
so in real terms i had them going as a pair and thay were going great.
i used my pair harness once i payed 3500 patent leather as my frend had hart trouble and passed on so the harness is at home gathering dust as we speak.
i took the 2 ponys had them measured for the pair harness full collars the works lets say i have got a pair of buxton bits for them to as ell as liverpool bits.
going back to tandem the wheeler had a bridle form a book by sally worlround it had an auxillary throat lash and a leather bar from there like a head collar to the nose band as the leader could pull the wheelers bridle off so had a bridle made to thoes specefacations.
i hope this helps keep me in the loop as well.
also you say you have a single horse veichle you can train them to geather as long as you have a strap to a pole but collar to collar and have the out side trace remade longer with your breeching with a trace carrierso it goes round the others hind quatersto provide draft as well as to keep the out side wheeler in and dont forget to cross your reins as well in the centure 1 left 1 right x 2 left 2 right.


----------



## clairegillies (Nov 25, 2012)

in my younger days I worked as a driving groom and my boss's main team were tandem. I never drove them though I drove single and pairs.
the lead horse she drove had never been trained to carriage drive... we used to comment that he must just of thought he got long reined a lot.. lol.
so the wheeler has to do the pulling, and the leader has to just prance about looking pretty. thats what we did anyway. 
my apologies for having no practical advice. 

Claire


----------



## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

*geting them going in tandem ect*

the thing i forgot to mention all ways leave class on a good note if you dont feel well or you have had a bad day leave well alone and have a lesson on another day.
in work all ways reward with a little bit of feed or apple or carrot as your donkeys will learn faster and you will have a good pair eather in tandem or as a pair on a pole is there any one near you that you can take them and borrow a set of harness and a veichle for a few hours so you can get use to harnessing up and puting to and finaly working them for half hour as not to spoil them little by little youll get there it takes time and should not be rushed.


----------



## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

*to claregilles*

hiya clare i set mine up as thay both were in draft the times when thay were out of draft was turning as the trace goes slack one side or at woah at a stand thay were a gerat team i wish tammy was still here and i would invite people to drive them and for 2 old ponys the power of them out driveing was awesome and thay were very responsive via voice and got titbits every time thay preformed well the old saying is a happy ship is a good ship so to speak like i said i have a dvd in the school and it also has a problem matic section were tricky decided to go for the open door and thay jacknifed and tricky got his leg over the trace whic could have made a disaster but like i said training and talking to your horses goes a long way.
the best way is titbits to a horses stomach also reaches the brain its supriseing how a horse can levle to your way of thinking like i said it takes time with quincey it has taken 4 months and you can see the results of him in my albums he also drives he was broken in in that time period.
and is a well behaved and happy horse in his work all dew to titbits and geting him to learn and the results are to be seen.


----------



## ButtInTheDirt (Jan 16, 2011)

I have no practical advice to give you, but ASKDFJ;WLEAFSIGHIWJEFI, those donks are all I have ever dreamed of! I have somewhat of an obsession with mini donks and driving, but alas, no such donk has come into my life.  Good luck, I'm looking forward to more pictures of those cuties.


----------



## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Thanks Michaelvanessa! I'm gonna have to re read your post with a fine tooth comb! Pictures would be lovely, I've been looking but no one has actual close up of the tack. Also, finding this stuff isn't easy! Lol. 

I've been trying to take a mental inventory of what I'm going to need/have made. It took my a while to fine the terrets, but I did find them! I'm thinking I can go to the local leather shop to have them alter the harnesses, like put D rings on the breast collars. Also, they both have rings for over checks on their bridles, I assume those can be use? As for trace keepers could I use the tugs and the breeching ring? 

Also I found these two articles, would you say they are useful? 

Trying Tandem
So You Want to Drive a Tandem? | drivingpairs

We ALWAYS end on a good note. Especially with these donks, they forgive but they DON'T forget. Lol

I lunged them together last spring since we had our small indoor. The hurricane belew it away so I have to wait for warmer days so the round pen thaws. They naturally follow one behind the other. Venus, the brown one is always behind, though I would like to use her for lead instead of wheel as the grey is stronger. But I want them to switch off anyways, they both need work... There ummmmm... Fluffy! Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

ButtInTheDirt said:


> I have no practical advice to give you, but ASKDFJ;WLEAFSIGHIWJEFI, those donks are all I have ever dreamed of! I have somewhat of an obsession with mini donks and driving, but alas, no such donk has come into my life.  Good luck, I'm looking forward to more pictures of those cuties.


I was never really into them. They were in my barns petting zoo area for almost 2 years before I really took interest in them. Now I can get enough of them! They are so smart and strong, its incredible to me. The have HUGE work ethics and meet me at the gate of their pen to come out. I say come on donks and they follow me on a loose lead. They are wonderful little bugs!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

clairegillies said:


> in my younger days I worked as a driving groom and my boss's main team were tandem. I never drove them though I drove single and pairs.
> the lead horse she drove had never been trained to carriage drive... we used to comment that he must just of thought he got long reined a lot.. lol.
> so the wheeler has to do the pulling, and the leader has to just prance about looking pretty. thats what we did anyway.
> my apologies for having no practical advice.
> ...


Yeah, I know the lead isn't for pulling, more for show, but they will get exercise in either way. Plus it can cut the time they spend with them in half. I love spending time with them but I have two jobs, full time nursing school and I'm training 1 !/2 horses (the other one is good most of the token so my time is limited. They were puffing 15 min into doing a working walk around the property! Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## clairegillies (Nov 25, 2012)

michaelvanessa, love the pictures of your ponies, they look awesome characters. George and Jaunty were harnessed up correctly as all the rules would require, we had patent tack for the 'dressage' and cones sections, and a webbing and strong leather set for the cross-country and every day use. I was very good at harnessing up and understood everything about fit and different set ups as I did it everyday... however this was over 25 years ago now and I would not be sure of everything I did. My boss was a very good horsewoman, all her horses had great manners and drove beautifuly, as you say about the voice they all went very well to spoken instruction. Most of them went very well under saddle too, I had a fabulous and very busy time working there as we went to shows regularly with the tandem team and a spare horse, Brewster.. I would be the hooligan and ride the spare all round the place bareback in a headcollar.
I don't think in all my horse days I could ever have surpassed her driving skills. Awesome lady.

Claire


----------



## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

*tandem driveing*

hiya it looks like you have found some articles that you can work on, try not to alter your harness to much you could probley ask your harness maker to make some parts that can be put on as a leader or a wheeler.
so take your time i could see thay used the roger rings instead of the rosetties ill have to get the harness out and take some pictures so it will give you a better idear on the way foward.
take your time little by little buy your harness so you have not got a big layout that is what i did i had mine made a bit each month and im proud of the harness makers that made the harness and i was blessed with a beautiful pair of ponys.
ill keep you in the loop when ill post them so you can check them out.
have fun with your donkeys and all the best ok.
michael.


----------



## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

*tandem driveing*

to clare thankyou for you insite to your life with you horses at work it sounds like your just a good horse woman as your boss was and i have admarations for your storys like your self i would not change any thing for the world id do it all again.
i use to ride my frends sec c welsh pony bare back with a head collar and lead rope in london and in a local park were he lived i use to canter and full gallop as well i miss the freedom like that it was fun but now i dont bounce like i use to any more lol and both the pony and my frend have passed on many thanks and thank you for your kind comments of tricky and tammy the sad thing is tricky lost tammy 1 1/2 years ago now and tammys owner vanessa she passed 14 years ago so i lost her.
thanks.


----------



## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

They only thing I would add to the harness are D rings on the wheelers breast collar. We don't have harness makers here on Long Island. Lol. I also have to look closer at their harnesses to see if I can work with that I got. 

Anything else as far as equipment I'm missing? 

-Terrets
-D rings on the breast collar
-Both donks have rings by the crown piece
-trace extenders, I was thinking of getting a small section of chain with heavy duty snaps for that
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I recently learned of a hammer. The fellow was driving a hammer of Friesiens. That is 5 horses. The leaders are three abreast except the middle one is a little more forward of the others, then two wheel horses. These horses were pulling a large British carriage.


----------



## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

Here are some photos from Michaelvanessa, He was a great sport taking detailed photos for us interested in tandem driving.









^^^^ DSCF1704 here is the wheeler in theory coupled to the leader, as you can see the wheeler's harness is the same as any wheeler with tugs on the driving saddle breeching and also a false martingale from the girth to the collar the only other differences are the rein territs and the bridle as described with the auxiliary throat lash and rein terrets and breeching. 











^^^^^ DSCF1701 you can see the split rein terret with the roller the leaders reins pass through the top and the wheeler passes through the bottom.










^^^^^ DSCF1699 you can see the hame tug buckle with the cock eye fitted to the wheeler's buckle and you can see the wheeler's trace continue on.











^^^^^ DSCF1696 you can see the leaders reins from a front view passing through the rein rosettes












^^^^^ DSCF1698 here is a side view of the wheeler's bridle and the reins passing through the rein rosettes.












^^^^^ DSCF1693b you can see how long the leaders reins are as displayed here.











^^^^ DSCF1695 here is the leader waiting quietly ready to be put to the wheeler.


----------



## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

Here are some more:












^^^^ DSCF1690 you can see no breeching but a trace carrier and the wheeler's reins folded neatly behind the saddle with the aid of the back band keeper holding them in place.











^^^^^ DSCF1691 you can see the cock eye on the trace this connects the leader to the wheeler.













^^^^ DSCF1683 you can see the leaders trace passing through the loop on the saddle and the trace carrier from the girth helps support the pad driving saddle trace carrier and prevents the trace riding up and damaging the saddle, you can see the leaders reins rolled up on the back strap.













^^^^^ DSCF1688 you can see the trace carrier loop on the girth and the trace carrier and also the false martingale.













^^^^^ DSCF1682 for this demonstration we are using the wheeler's bridle as the leader.












^^^ DSCF1681 you can see the gullet strap clearly connecting the auxiliary throat lash to the nose band.











^^^^ DSCF1679 front view of wheeler's bridle you can see the wheeler rosettes for the leaders reins.











^^^ DSCF1680 side view of the wheeler's bridle you can see the auxiliary throat lash this prevents the wheeler's bridle being pulled off the auxiliary throat lash has a gullet strap which connects to the nose band.


----------



## clairegillies (Nov 25, 2012)

these are great photographs, thankyou for sharing them and all the explanations too. a couple of memory cells fired up saying they remembered this.. but they are back into retirement now.. lol.

Claire


----------



## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

Thank you MV, the photos are great, I never knew how a tandem went together. Although I am sure I will never try it, It is a good thing to know.


----------



## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Taffy, google Barryhook. He is a British driving retrainer. The traffic he drives his horses in is amazing. The drivers seem a bit more respectful than in North America. He has numerous videos on youtube. He was the one who explained the "hammer" to me.


----------



## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Tandem sounds like such fun!!
I've seen the Amish farm with their Belgians--my farrier is Amish. I watched them plow with 8 horses across. Remarkable.


----------



## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Thank you, thank you, thank you! All these photos are beyond helpful! I really appreciate them! 

We had a semi successful tandem ground drive the other day. The reins were pretty short so i had to stand at the wheelers barrel, I think he was a bit confused. Hah! We did make it once around the arena with out lovely header helping us out every once in a while!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------

