# Correct use of spurs



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

The one thing that really, really annoys me about English riders wearing spurs. Is when they are worn incorrectly as in the picture.









On the boots, which are rubber, you can see a catch and that is where the spur is meant to be resting.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

^^^^^
You mean like this?








:shrug:


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Yes, like that!

They do not have straps on those spurs they slot into the heels


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Just curious, what is the purpose of English riders wearing their spurs so high?
That would be considered incorrect for western riders.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

COWCHICK77 said:


> Just curious, what is the purpose of English riders wearing their spurs so high?
> That would be considered incorrect for western riders.


To reduce the need to move the leg in order to use the spur. Gives the impression of a horse needing less cuing, and looks better than if more leg movement was required. More efficient.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

Foxhunter said:


> The one thing that really, really annoys me about English riders wearing spurs. Is when they are worn incorrectly as in the picture.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have to disagree with you on this one. :sad:

Read anything by George Morris and he will almost always say place your spurs below the spur rest because of the height and potential angle it places the spurs. I rarely wore my spurs above the spur rest and I am short.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I almost mentioned that correct may be different for people with different leg lengths, too.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Far as different leg lengths, whether English or western, I have found length of shank, and nor spur placement to accommodate that
I have found, because I have firly long legs, a longer shanked spur, whether English or western, works for me
As for another difference, far as spur height, good western spurs,are weighted, balanced, so that the fall into place, without needing to be tied down, ect, while I have found English spurs, too low, can have those spurs fall below the heels, and maybe why a spur rest, and higher position is needed?
Just asking, as English is my second discipline, but I did find having those English spurs below that spur rest often resulted in that spur winding up below my boot heels.
My western spurs are not done up tight, held by spur tie downs, but just naturally fall into place, which is lower then I ride with English spurs, but i certainly can apply invisible cues, using those western spurs position like that.
Here is alink that has good points on spur position, and their use, with some facts depending on type of saddle you ride with

Spur Basics, Part 1


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Maybe George Morris is looking at spurs from a western perspective and somehow trying to work that into the 'English' boot which is specifically designed to support the spur in the (resting) place its traditionally worn in. If the spur was intended to go beneath that 'rest' it wouldn't need to be there
I honestly don't know what his thinking is
Spurs of the type that Foxhunter has shown are worn by all riders in UK showing classes that are wearing 'tall' boots because historically they are incorrect without them - so the horse being light or not light to your leg cues has nothing to do with it


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I do not know the reason for them being worn immediately below the ankle. 

It could well be because if a riders heels are down then they wouldn't be usable.

Spurs with rowels are rarely ever seen in the UK and I am fairly sure that they are illegal in affiliated jumping completions. 

Most favoured are the Prince of Wales spur










Or the Dummy spur










Nowadays most spur 'arms' are of the same length, it use to be that one side was longer than the other and that went to the outside.

I have spurs that are over 100 years old.

As Jaydee says, correct dress with tall boots is to wear spurs.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I ride everything in spurs. From the first ride onward. For me, at some point in their lives they are going to have to get used to it. If they prove to me they are too sensitive I will downgrade to a ball spur, but almost always they are happy in my clover spur. I have one set that has a slightly larger rowel for showing, but only because it's classier looking, and the larger rowel actually makes zero difference to my horses. If anything they are duller to the big rowel, because the surface area of them is bigger, it's a lot easier to take that than a little clover spur nudging you.

I know how to use spurs however, so I am very aware of where they are at all times, and mine do not touch the horses side until we are ready to. So usually on first rides they don't even get used. Just gets them used to the noise and such.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

jaydee said:


> Maybe George Morris is looking at spurs from a western perspective and somehow trying to work that into the 'English' boot which is specifically designed to support the spur in the (resting) place its traditionally worn in. If the spur was intended to go beneath that 'rest' it wouldn't need to be there
> I honestly don't know what his thinking is


I said what his thinking is and it not from a Western perspective. He has been around for a long time and seen a lot. He believes spurs, in most cases, do not need to be as high as where most spur rests position spurs and that includes short spurs, long spurs and all spurs in between. He has also stated that a spur rest potentially positions a spur in an upward angle.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Foxhunter said:


> Spurs with rowels are rarely ever seen in the UK and I am fairly sure that they are illegal in affiliated jumping completions.
> 
> Most favoured are the Prince of Wales spur


Roweled spurs are illegal in US Polo Assoc. sanctioned events, too. And the Prince of Wales spur is the most common seen here.

It used to be that a rider wasn't considered proficient unless he or she could ride effectively with spurs, using them or not, as needed. I wonder if that is still the case?


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

Various sports and disciplines will have rules governing this, that, and the other. All I really know of horses is that the correct way to do anything is the way that works with that horse. 

Using Smilies example that spurs are for reinforcing leg cues, placement of the spur is irrelevant so long as it can be used to do just that.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Cordillera Cowboy said:


> Various sports and disciplines will have rules governing this, that, and the other. All I really know of horses is that the correct way to do anything is the way that works with that horse.
> 
> Using Smilies example that spurs are for reinforcing leg cues, placement of the spur is irrelevant so long as it can be used to do just that.


Agree.
Rowels are also not legal here , on English spurs, in any stock horse English events either
I have seen English spurs for sale,with rowels, but have no idea where they would be show legal
Here is AQHA rules

Spurs for English Riding


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

When I showed dressage on my equestrian team (High school equestrian, I know a lot of other places don't offer it, but it's like an extracurricular like football around here) and the rules stated "Spurs were permitted - If they have rowels, the must be free to move."

I am not sure if that translates into any english event ever, but I rode dressage with rowelled spurs because it was my pick up event. I am now wondering, if it is not show legal for other disciplines, why the high school show would permit it? We are supposed to mimic actual competition.


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

Rowles are legal in dressage afaik, but not hunters. No sure about evening.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

My long boots don't have a spur rest - neither do my husbands - but the spur is still positioned in roughly the same place as with the 'rest' 
I found this video that shows how they should be positioned.
I can't comment on George Morris' thinking for having them lower - he obviously thinks it works but I've never seen spurs worn like it in the UK
The rules for FEI competition state that the shanks mustn't be more than 4cm long, no rowels allowed in the cross country phase and the rowels allowed in the dressage and showjumping must be smooth and round and as already said - free moving
I rarely ever use spurs other than when a showing class demands them for 'correctness' and even that is a standard that's being ignored these days because I tend to not have horses that need them


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I use spurs for refined and more subtle leg cues.

As far as placement, I've always kept them on the little 'notch' on my boots.


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## Beling (Nov 3, 2009)

Cordillera Cowboy said:


> ... All I really know of horses is that the correct way to do anything is the way that works with that horse. ...


This is a great point, and should be kept in mind at all times.

Many comments include the word "correct", or you read something like, "If it doesn't work, then you're doing it wrong."

I'd like to think the spur is reserved for finesse; but if that pony won't go without a spur poke, who am I say riding him with spurs is "wrong"?


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## jgnmoose (May 27, 2015)

I am curious why rowelled spurs are not legal in those events if anyone knows.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

jgnmoose said:


> I am curious why rowelled spurs are not legal in those events if anyone knows.


 Which events?
Do you mean cross country?


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

SorrelHorse said:


> When I showed dressage on my equestrian team (High school equestrian, I know a lot of other places don't offer it, but it's like an extracurricular like football around here) and the rules stated "Spurs were permitted - If they have rowels, the must be free to move."
> 
> I am not sure if that translates into any english event ever, but I rode dressage with rowelled spurs because it was my pick up event. I am now wondering, if it is not show legal for other disciplines, why the high school show would permit it? We are supposed to mimic actual competition.



I'm not so sure that high school or 4H always mimics competition
I was asked once, to judge a regional 4H trail.
I asked for a rule book and no one could supply me with one.

I thus was left no choice, but to judge by stock horse breed rules.I therefore DQed some kids that were two handing on a curb.
Seems that is allowed, according to some levels.
Had some upset show moms, but not my fault if the show committee could not provide a set of rules that they ran under
I know many local open type all breeds shows, also have their unique rules. For instance, the one near me, allows pee wees to use two hands on a curb
Breed shows offer instead, lead line classes, for kids not ready to show as per rules
I do agree that the ability for rowels to rotate , affects severity.

As to when I use , them, only at shows and training. I also don't need them to trail ride, nor do I even trail ride in riding boots, but that is another topic


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Trust me, the high school team is miles more sophisticated than 4-H. We have a very intensive rulebook, judges who know what they are doing, and a very strict show-like setting - The exact opposite of what I experienced in 4-H.

That is why I am curious though, wondering if they totally fudged the whole thing or not or if there is some place you can use rowels.


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## Partita (Feb 19, 2016)

In case anybody is interested in a different take, in Vienna, at The Spanish Riding School where they train the Lipizzan stallions, spurs are not introduced until the horse is ready for a double bridle. As the addition of the curb bit, the spurs are used for nuance and refinement. The finishing touches to an already very well trained horse. If they are needed for go or because the leg is being ignored, then they are not ready for the spur!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Partita said:


> In case anybody is interested in a different take, in Vienna, at The Spanish Riding School where they train the Lipizzan stallions, spurs are not introduced until the horse is ready for a double bridle. As the addition of the curb bit, the spurs are used for nuance and refinement. The finishing touches to an already very well trained horse. If they are needed for go or because the leg is being ignored, then they are not ready for the spur!


Wrong, by using a spur only secondary to light leg aids being ignored, do you get that refinement, so you never wind up needing to use more and stronger leg aids-that is what give refinement, a horse that knows you ride with spurs, but also that you will not go to the spur, if he responds to leg aid alone. THat is the entire point of using spurs correctly, to have the horse respond to invisible leg aids, by realizing that you ride with them, and by you always giving him the chance to avoid the spur,by being light to leg aids
English horses go to a curb in a double bridle, and are not ridden in a curb alone, like a western horse. Both take time to get to that point, so I don't see what you mean


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

By 'wrong', are you meaning that the Spanish Riding School is wrong in what they do,

or that what was said is wrong (ie the Spanish Riding School does NOT do that)?


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Smilie I haven't got a clue what your response to Partita's post means
Maybe you have misunderstood her post or maybe you could clarify yours?


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## Partita (Feb 19, 2016)

Smilie said:


> Wrong, by using a spur only secondary to light leg aids being ignored, do you get that refinement, so you never wind up needing to use more and stronger leg aids-that is what give refinement, a horse that knows you ride with spurs, but also that you will not go to the spur, if he responds to leg aid alone. THat is the entire point of using spurs correctly, to have the horse respond to invisible leg aids, by realizing that you ride with them, and by you always giving him the chance to avoid the spur,by being light to leg aids
> English horses go to a curb in a double bridle, and are not ridden in a curb alone, like a western horse. Both take time to get to that point, so I don't see what you mean


In Vienna, the back up to leg aids is the whip, not the spur.

The softness of the horses mind is just as important as the softness of the horses bodies. The mind will never be soft under threat of attack, just dull or checked out. A horse that has ignored has most likely not understood. Even the whip is not used as one might think. Touch, press, vibrate, THEN smack.

Spur use is similar. In fact, the spur (and the whip) is first introduced from the GROUND, not under saddle. 

Horses in a double bridle can be ridden on the curb alone. See thread about riding dressage one handed.

Perhaps the confusion lies in thinking about things only from the rules of the show arena. There is much more to training horses from OUTSIDE the show arena, than from the rules within it.

Happy riding, and happy THINKING everyone! The best threads are the ones that make us THINK!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

SorrelHorse said:


> Trust me, the high school team is miles more sophisticated than 4-H. We have a very intensive rulebook, judges who know what they are doing, and a very strict show-like setting - The exact opposite of what I experienced in 4-H.
> 
> That is why I am curious though, wondering if they totally fudged the whole thing or not or if there is some place you can use rowels.


Never meant to imply that high school competition is in the same league as 4H, just that anyone judging those events, must have a rule book by which that association is run by, regardless of what card they carry-they have to judge any event,according to their rules.
I know you know that-so an answer to your question, would require knowledge, from where they adopted a rule that allowed rowels on English spurs, as it would not mimic showing AQHA English, but some other organization, in 'the real World"


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