# Need advice (and fast!!) -- Attempt to move out amicably is failing :(



## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Not that it matters now but in the future, when giving notice just give a nice 'thank you for the great care, consider this my notice'. No reason to go into a long story.


I have always understood 30 day notice to be like 30 day notice when you are renting an apartment. So it is like they say, not how you say.


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## cloudkisser (Jul 19, 2010)

First of all did you give him his 30 days in writing? If you didn't you need to put it in writing and make yourself a copy, be sure to date it and give it to him. If it does not say on your contract 30 days form the end of the month then you have every right to give him your 30 days when you want. As far as him having a lean intrest in your horse I don't know what your contract said. If I were you and you want to get your horse out now have your trailer park somewhere off his property, walk your horse off his property and load her up. Even if he see's you loading your horse and says you can't do that their is nothing he can do. He can call the cops but you are the owner of the horse and the police will just tell him its a civil matter and he would have to take it up with you in cort. Most likely he will not go that far over that little money. Then after your horse is safely at the other barn contact him and settle the matter.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Just adding, I think you are being fair (even though I think they are technically right that a rental period goes from month to month).

Does everyone there pay on the 15th? Is the barn full or are there empty stalls?


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## Zimpatico (Nov 5, 2010)

I have never heard of 30 days notice meaning anything other than 30 days from the day notice is given in writing. If it means 30 days from the start of the next billing cycle, it must state that. Let him push, but I doubt he has any leg to stand on.


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## cascanastargazer (Jan 20, 2011)

Yes, my 30 days was in writing and I know that he has rec'd it. 

Yeah, that's the problem with this whole thing... his terms are incredibly vague. Literally all it says on the matter is "30 days notice required". As far as lien interest in my horse, his contract says this "By signing this agreement you agree to the above rules [just some stuff about basic horse care, trailer storage, what boarders are allowed to do/use] and that [his name] and [his barn] will hold a lien interest in your horse *until all past due amounts are paid or your horse sold after 45 days from the first missed due date*."

I have no past due amounts, and have never missed a payment. And since I will be paying for a full 30 days from the day I give notice, not even that could be considered past due or missed.


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## cascanastargazer (Jan 20, 2011)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Just adding, I think you are being fair (even though I think they are technically right that a rental period goes from month to month).
> 
> Does everyone there pay on the 15th? Is the barn full or are there empty stalls?


Thanks  I understand what you are saying. Everyone pays on whatever day they want, and they establish that when they first start boarding with him. I chose the 15th. But, just for the record.... none of that was ever put in writing. I personally think that he needs to learn that he needs to make sure his contract is thorough. In my opinion (and I'm 20) it looks like it was thrown together with little thought, and not to be rude, but if you're going to handle a business like that I feel like you should be prepared to deal with the consequences?? 

And there are lots of empty stalls. He only has about 12 stalls and only a few horses are brought in at night (mine being one of them) ... the rest are out to pasture 24/7.


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## Zimpatico (Nov 5, 2010)

My boarding contract states that board is pro-rated on a weekly basis if I moved in or out before or after the 1st of the month. If I'm there an extra 3 days, I pay a week. The language is clear and I know that I would need to pay by the week should I decide to move out with more or less than 30 days. I wouldn't worry about it too much if the terms are not spelled out, but I would get out of there ASAP. Sounds like the type of person that would say your horse broke a fence or did some other damamge to get a few extra $$.


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## cascanastargazer (Jan 20, 2011)

Yeah, regardless of how things go down I am getting her out of there on Sunday. I just am disappointed, because I personally am a very drama-free and amicable person and I absolutely dread conflict. I never expected it to erupt into something like this... I wish that I could afford to just pay him the whole thing and get out with everyone happy, but since I'm moving to a new barn and need to pay rent there as well I just can't do that.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Move your horse and pay what you feel you are owing. Write on the comment line something like payment in full for 30 day notice for <horse name>.


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## cascanastargazer (Jan 20, 2011)

He wants it in cash. Should I worry about the fact that there is then no paper trail?


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Do. Not. Give. Him. Cash!

Do you usually pay your board in cash? If so, I sure hope you get a receipt.


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## cascanastargazer (Jan 20, 2011)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Do. Not. Give. Him. Cash!
> 
> Do you usually pay your board in cash? If so, I sure hope you get a receipt.


No, I never do. Always check. That way I have a paper trail and can prove (1) that it was written [by scanning a copy] and (2) that he has deposited it, when he does. A red flag definitely went up in my mind, when he said that, especially given how shady he's suddenly being. My thought is that if I give him cash, he'll say he never got it, and THEN he CAN hold a lien interest on her, because I have no proof that I paid it.


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## Zimpatico (Nov 5, 2010)

Never, never, never, never pay your bills in cash! My BO, trainer, farrier, vets, etc all get their payment in a check. There is never any question if they got paid when I can print out a copy of the cashed check from my bank's website.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I agree with your concern. 

Do not give him cash. Do not. Do not. Do not!


And do not write him a check for the full amount he wants and then stop payment on it. It can be considered fraud.

Make sure your comment line clearly says that you are paid in full for the 30 day notice.


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## Amba1027 (Jun 26, 2009)

I thought it was a little odd that he asked for cash and said he wants it today... I would write a check for what you think is fair and leave it for him on the day you leave so that he doesn't get a chance to cause more trouble after seeing you're not giving him cash.


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## Zimpatico (Nov 5, 2010)

Get him a cashier's check from your bank. I'm assuming he is saying this because he doesn't want a personal check.


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## cloudkisser (Jul 19, 2010)

cascanastargazer said:


> He wants it in cash. Should I worry about the fact that there is then no paper trail?


Don't give him cash! Did it say in your board agreement you have to pay cash? He soundl like a scumbag thats running his barn under the table and dose not want to pay taxes. I had to deal with one once..write a check and if he dosent like it he dosent have to cash it. If you get him a cashiers check then I would minus the money it cost you to get that check from what you owe him!


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## cascanastargazer (Jan 20, 2011)

Okay, that's originally what I was thinking, but I wanted to double check to make sure I'm not doing anything offensive. Definitely won't give him cash, no matter how much he begs for it. 

Just in case... Say I write the check. My boyfriend and my friend who is helping me move her will be there with me, but how do I PROVE that he received the check? I'm afraid he won't deposit it and then will claim that I never paid...


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Zimpatico said:


> Get him a cashier's check from your bank. I'm assuming he is saying this because he doesn't want a personal check.


Silly question, these are traceable, right? You can ask the bank for proof that they are cashed, right?


ETA - if he never deposits it then he has not been paid. But once you have the horse off his property he has to rectify his financial issues with you by taking you to civil court. (Small Claims)


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## Zimpatico (Nov 5, 2010)

Sorry, I should have clarified. He may be asking for cash because he doesn't trust that a personal check won't bounce once you move the horse out. Get a cashiers check, make a copy of it for yourself, and he can take it or leave it.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Zimpatico said:


> Sorry, I should have clarified. He may be asking for cash because he doesn't trust that a personal check won't bounce once you move the horse out. Get a cashiers check, make a copy of it for yourself, and he can take it or leave it.


I think you were clear, but I still wonder, can you prove that he cashed it?

Is there a comment line on a cashiers check?


If you put paid in full and he cashes it he is accepting that as his full payment.
That is why I ask.


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## cascanastargazer (Jan 20, 2011)

ETA - if he never deposits it then he has not been paid. But once you have the horse off his property he has to rectify his financial issues with you by taking you to civil court. (Small Claims)[/QUOTE]


Right, that is what concerns me.... I don't want to have to talk to him if I can avoid it =/


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## Zimpatico (Nov 5, 2010)

The bank where you purchase the cashiers check received the cashed check back from any bank where he deposits it. They will have proof that it was paid if needed. The question comes if he chooses not to cash the check, which is why I said make a copy of it before giving it to him. Now, if he refuses to accept it, leave with your mare, and send the check in an overnight UPS package, with the adult signature required option checked. This will give you proof that payment was delivered to him.


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## cascanastargazer (Jan 20, 2011)

Oh that's a GREAT idea, Zimpatico! That is exactly what I'll do. 

Thank you SO much everyone!! I was so stressed out about this


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## Zimpatico (Nov 5, 2010)

And, make sure you write in the memo, final payment for board.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I would think if you have witnesses that you left it (in a place where it was safe and it was normal for you to be leaving payment to him) that would be fine.

I do like the mailing idea, though you have to get him to sign for it, and that can be a challenge.


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## cakemom (Jul 4, 2010)

Just have him sign a carbonated receipt with a witness that you gave the cash. We do it every time we sell something.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cascanastargazer (Jan 20, 2011)

This has gotten so much worse... when my dad started talking to him he started suddenly throwing out all of this crap about my age (I'm 20) and how I'm lacking in life experience and have made a frivolous decision to move my horse and have created a problem for myself, my parents, and him. I am not frivolous. I am intelligent and incredibly mature, and my decision to move my horse is not only not his business, but also in the best interest of my horse for several reasons. I also am not stupid. I know what I owe and I know how to read a contract. I have been nothing but professional with him and he is treating me with the utmost disrespect and behaving as though I am a child. In addition, the ONLY reason my parents are involved at this point is because it is THEIR money, not mine. I am not having my daddy fight my battles for me. He has chosen to take matters into his own hands because this is technically HIS legal/financial battle, not mine. Now this guy is continuing to demand a full month's rent or he will sue my family in court. He has also threatened to call the sheriff if I try to take my horse. I'm at my wits end... Although he has no grounds for his argument (he even stated himself, in an email to my dad, that he knows his board agreement does not explicitly state everything that he is now arguing, but it is implied. IMPLIED??? You don't get to "imply" things on a legal document. I'm old enough to know that much), I still feel like crying and running away with my tail between my legs.


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## Amba1027 (Jun 26, 2009)

Honestly, it sounds like he is trying to scare you into paying. The amount of money he _might _get if he won in court would not be worth the time/money/effort spent to get it. If you stand your ground and continue as planned, he will most likely give it up once you are gone.


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## Zimpatico (Nov 5, 2010)

What did your parents say about it? If he stated in his email that his demands are NOT in the contract and are implied, then he doesn't have a leg to stand on. If he mentions calling the sheriff again, tell him you would appreciate that so you can safely remove your horse. Don't go over there again, or speak with him, without having someone with you.


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## cascanastargazer (Jan 20, 2011)

Zimpatico said:


> What did your parents say about it? If he stated in his email that his demands are NOT in the contract and are implied, then he doesn't have a leg to stand on. If he mentions calling the sheriff again, tell him you would appreciate that so you can safely remove your horse. Don't go over there again, or speak with him, without having someone with you.


Wel, my dad tried to work it out with them, at first amicably and then more aggressively (once they started making personal attacks). My dad simply argued that we owe 30 days' worth of board only, as stipulated in the agreement, and that none of their "implied" terms are valid because they are not explicitly stated in the agreement itself. This is, verbatim, what they said to us regarding their implied terms (they being him and his fiancee):

"Our policy is that a boarder needs to give thirty day notice, which we do not have spelled out in the boarding agreement as a thirty full days beyond the month which a boarder has currently paid for. However this is exactly what our thirty days means."


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

I personally don't think the sheriff would appreciate being called about this. Contracts are meant to state what is concrete, not implied. If he wanted that information known, he would have to put in the contract. You are following his rules. I think if he went through with taking you to small claims court, it would just be an expensive hassle..

I know when I moved my horse closer to me because of convenience also and because she had developed ulcers. I found a new place that would grain her twice a day, and her meds could be mixed in, rather than at the old place where she was just pastured with free choice hay. I just told them I was moving her. They also wanted 30 days notice, but when I called them, they got somewhat defensive and said they would bring her in and grain her and all that..which I knew they would probably charge me more for. 

I was their only legitimate boarder because it was more a family owned farm. Another lady kept 3 horses, but never saw them. I left a message on their phone saying I was coming whatever day. I came, was greeted with a less than friendly look, grabbed my mare and paid them for the next month and left.

ETA: 


> "Our policy is that a boarder needs to give thirty day notice, which we do not have spelled out in the boarding agreement as a thirty full days beyond the month which a boarder has currently paid for. However this is exactly what our thirty days means."


That is pointless and I would call BS on him. 30 days is 30 days if that's what his contract says. He can't add information so he can make more money.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

From a barn owner's perspective... You are completely right. There is no excuse for his behavior. Although that's an interesting idea about making it 30 days from the first of the month. From a financial stand point I can see why he did this.

Everyone gave you good advice and the only thing I'd like to add is perhaps you can call the sheriff to escort you and your horse off his property. Tell the officer that you are fearful for yourself and your horse and you can provide evidence to prove #1 your ownership of the horse #2 your abiding by your agreement with the stable and #3 the threatening emails if applicable or emails admitting the weaknesses in his contract.

Please keep us updated! Good Luck!


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## cascanastargazer (Jan 20, 2011)

Thank you SO MUCH everyone, for all of your help! We are moving her tomorrow, I'll let you know what ends up happening


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## CelticAngel (Jan 2, 2011)

I don't have anything to add that hasn't already been said other then I think it would be a good idea to have the sheriff there as it sounds like the BO is a very immature guy.

Good luck and I hope everything goes well! Be careful!


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## netty83 (Sep 21, 2010)

As someone mentioned above. If he will not accept the cheque then send it by recorded post that requires a signature to be received (sorry don't know what you guys call it over there). As far as the 30 days notice is concerned, the 30 days stand from the date he received formal written notice. If in the contract it does not state when the 30 days start from (e.g a new payment month) then don't worry. I work in a solicitor's (lawyers) office (secretary) and if it is not stated anywhere in the contract you should be fine. also was the contract duly signed? this means was it witnessed by an independent person at the time of signing and was the contract drawn up legally by a solicitor/lawyer? If this guy has just drawn one up himself then it's not worth the paper it is written on. Of course the law over there could be different from uk so please do not take my advice as any sort of legal advice.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

My question-what is considered proof of ownership? It is easy with a registered horse, but otherwise? Just a signed bill of sale? 

This guy sounds like a real nut case. I am very glad you are getting out of there. I agree with having the sheriff-I would call them( not the emergency number, just the regular number) and ask them how they would rather handle it. Arrange a time with you ahead and escort you, or just have the guy call them......my guess is they will arrange a time and go with you. I would suggest that you get as much of your personal stuff out ahead of time, perhaps when he is not around, so that all you have to worry about tomorrow is your mare.

My understanding of 30 days has always been from the date the notice is given, and I have always paid for days over on a prorated basis. There is no refund for days under, naturally. It is best given in writing, print out 2 copies, one for you and one for them, both signed and dated by both of you. You can SAY you gave it to him all day long, but have no real proof he has it, if push comes to shove and he decides to continue to be a real a$$.

Good luck, and I am glad you have others going with you for sure. Let us know how it goes!


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## cascanastargazer (Jan 20, 2011)

Hi everyone,

I successfully moved Lilly today!  I felt bad, because I could barely get her out of the pasture -- my anxiety over the issue (after much bullying and intimidation from the barn owner) was SO bad that she immediately sensed that I wasn't okay and refused to walk with me. Luckily another boarder was around and was kind enough to help me bring her in and get her loaded. 

Meanwhile, my dad attempted to reconcile with the barn owner. He asked him how he wanted to deal with the issue and offered (again) to pay him what we owe for the 30 days. He refused my dad's payment (there were several witnesses). My dad said "Alright, well, I'm sorry this turned out the way it did. Good luck with everything." And he said.... "See you in court." And stomped off. 

Haha..


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

I was worried that your nervousness would affect her, but so glad someone was there to help and that she is settling in in her new home! YAY!


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

Small claims court is fun! No really it is! Especially when you're right... He will have to pay 50-200 just to file a claim so if he does take it that far then he'll be out even more money which makes it even more fun.. (Sorry I'm a little cynical.. it makes me happy when people get whats coming to them..) 


Glad you got out of there... and it sounds like cheaper than you had anticipated!


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## Zimpatico (Nov 5, 2010)

How's she settling into the new place?


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## cascanastargazer (Jan 20, 2011)

Haha Starline my dad is exactly the same way... he thought the whole thing was fun, and thinks it will be even more fun when he tries to sue us because he doesn't have a leg to stand on and will just lose $$ whereas my dad has a free attorney because of his line of work. 

Zimpatico -- She's doing great! She's already made friends with her stall neighbor, they whinny to each other when one is gone  SO cute! And she was out to pasture with one of the BO's horses and they got along great!  I'm so happy and Lil seems to be too. Thanks for asking!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

So glad you got your horse moved safely.

This BO obviously does not ever want your business again. Wow. What a way to make people hate you.

Make sure your father keeps ALL of the emails and such.


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## cascanastargazer (Jan 20, 2011)

I know, that's the sad part.. I tried to do this amicably because I thought he'd be a good fallback if anything ever happened and I needed to move Lilly again sometime, I thought there was no reason why we couldn't stay on good terms. It was the weirdest thing, because he was SO kind, and then when I gave him 30 days notice it was like a demon came out of the closet... soooo bizzare. 

Thank you, though, to everyone who was so supportive and helpful on this thread, it really helped me to keep my nerves together knowing that there were people out there who genuinely believed that I hadn't done anything wrong.


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

Why are some boarding farm operators such d***s. I don't think you owe anything beyond the 30 days notice you already gave. I would probably just go get my horse and leave.


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## cascanastargazer (Jan 20, 2011)

I did


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

I know - ha ha helps if you read the whole post! Thank God you moved!


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## Snookeys (Sep 23, 2010)

Wow! What a debacle... I'm so glad your horse is out of there. He sounds like a downright spiteful man. Did no one else think it was awful that he said "I don't want you here any more than you want to be here"?

If he actually takes you to SCC, I think you have a strong enough case to make him look like even more of a fool.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

starlinestables said:


> Small claims court is fun! No really it is! Especially when you're right...


Small claims court can also be risky. You may or may not get a competent judge. The one time I used it, a contractor had provided a written guarantee that the leach field of the house we bought had been inspected and passed, and would be work properly for a year. It didn't.

In small claims court, the contractor admitted he had never performed the inspection because "what were the odds?"

The judge, who must have been related, turned and said, "This man is a licensed contractor, and he did everything in his power to ensure proper working. Case dismissed."

I replied, "He just said under oath he didn't even perform the inspection!"

The judge replied, "And I said Case dismissed!" :evil:

There is no appeal in small claims court...


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## cascanastargazer (Jan 20, 2011)

Snookeys said:


> Wow! What a debacle... I'm so glad your horse is out of there. He sounds like a downright spiteful man. Did no one else think it was awful that he said "I don't want you here any more than you want to be here"?


Haha.. I thought that was pretty rude, too. His girlfriend shared a few choice words with my dad as well. It's funny, they had no argument, so they decided to take shots at me. It was weird. I'm 20 years old. They know that. They didn't have a legitimate case, so they kept commenting on my age like "I will lower the fee from $225 to $175 given Jessica's lack of life experience and emotional decision to move her horse (what?)" or "you can either pay us and take us to court if you are unsatisfied or pay us and allow Jessica to learn a life lesson about responsibility and not to frivolously make decisions on a whim to move her horse" ..... ???? First of all, I'm not 12. I'm an adult. Second of all, nothing about my decision to move my horse was emotional or frivolous. It may have seemed sudden to him, but last time I checked (sorry for the sarcasm but I really hate this guy!!) I don't have to give my BO a play by play of what's going on in my life. All I have to do is give him notice.

Some people! :wink:


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## Carleen (Jun 19, 2009)

I wish I had seen this thread when it was first posted! On the 15th of January I gave my 30 days notice and came into the exact same problem as you (minus the rudeness of the BO, but they said I would owe them for the whole month of February). Their contract just stated "30 Days Notice" and did not say it had to be from the 1st of the month. Luckily for me, I found someone to replace me right away and therefore the extra I "owed" them was waived - however if it hadn't been I was so ready to fight them as they had nothing to stand on! 

Unfortunately for me my parents disagreed with me, claiming it was just "common sense" to give it on the first of the month... :neutral:

Anyways, glad to see everything worked out for you!


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## cascanastargazer (Jan 20, 2011)

Carleen said:


> I wish I had seen this thread when it was first posted! On the 15th of January I gave my 30 days notice and came into the exact same problem as you (minus the rudeness of the BO, but they said I would owe them for the whole month of February). Their contract just stated "30 Days Notice" and did not say it had to be from the 1st of the month. Luckily for me, I found someone to replace me right away and therefore the extra I "owed" them was waived - however if it hadn't been I was so ready to fight them as they had nothing to stand on!
> 
> Unfortunately for me my parents disagreed with me, claiming it was just "common sense" to give it on the first of the month... :neutral:
> 
> Anyways, glad to see everything worked out for you!



Oh no I'm sorry!! But it's good to hear you fixed it


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## WesternJake (Jan 29, 2011)

Sounds to me like your BO was upset you were leaving, and wanted you to stay! 
I'm glad your out of there though. The way he handled the situation wasn't the best, and he shouldn't of been saying that you lack life experience. Geesh. Some people!

Emily


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## KatCashen (Aug 17, 2010)

haha i know dude he was totally handling the situation way imature.. cant believe he was sayingthose things about you when he was the one acting like a child!! Glad you got her out of there for sure.. an if he does take you to court will those witness come forth on your side? i wonder how many boarders left after you did if they seen the demon that came out of him!!! If i had seen your situation i woulda gave my 30 days right then an there!


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## cascanastargazer (Jan 20, 2011)

Oh of course they will come forth on my side! The witnesses were my family and my boyfriend. Hahah and I don't know, the only boarders that know about what happened were the nice girl who helped me lead her out of the pasture because I was so scared that Lilly wouldn't even come with me, and that girl's mom. My dad told them everything and her mom was like "Oh no, what am I going to do? I have all of my horses here!!" she sounded like she wanted to leave but didn't know how after hearing how hard he made it on me with just ONE horse. Crazy!! I am still so amazed by all of your guys' support, you are wonderful!!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Do you not have any witnesses that are not family? People who would not stick up for you because they love you are always better witnesses.


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## DWStables (Jan 26, 2011)

I bet they dont even take you to court,but your delema has made me change my boarding contract to specify "from the 1st of the month" Thanks!!!!


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## cascanastargazer (Jan 20, 2011)

Good thinking DWStables! 

I think the girl who helped me bring her in and her mom were witnesses but I'm not sure, my dad took care of that part while I loaded Lilly into the trailer. I trust him though, he works with attorneys all the time so I don't think he'd make a silly mistake


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