# Is it easier to canter in 2-point than sitting?



## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

I think it's what you get used to. When I first started lessons I was taught two point only and when I switched to dressage it felt strange to sit the canter. I prefer to sit it now, but that may be because I've been riding dressage primarily for several years now.


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## thetempest89 (Aug 18, 2013)

If you don't feel comfortable sitting the canter, then maybe you should do some stirrupless trotting. It makes my seat feel 10x's better. Even if I only do a couple laps around the arena. Having your seat is very important and if you're not feeling like your good at it. Then you should work at it, conquer it.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

thetempest89 said:


> If you don't feel comfortable sitting the canter, then maybe you should do some stirrupless trotting. It makes my seat feel 10x's better. Even if I only do a couple laps around the arena. Having your seat is very important and if you're not feeling like your good at it. Then you should work at it, conquer it.


I agree with you 100%, but it doesn't really answer my question.  I'm just wondering if people find 2-point easier than sitting the canter.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

on some horses, it sure is. I have ridden a few canters where it is much, much easier in two point. However, for the most part I think once you can sit a canter well, sitting is the easier way to go.


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## quinn (Nov 8, 2013)

When I first started, 2 pt was easier. The more I rode the more I preferred sitting.

 that lesson horse...his canter made me feel like I was rising a rocking horse. Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kiltsrhott (Mar 11, 2012)

I think it depends on the horse. My horse is very easy to sit when she's cantering. She's very smooth, and sitting, for me, takes less effort than two point. I could see a very lofty canter being easier to ride in two point, but overall, I prefer to sit. It also becomes easier to sit as you learn to follow your horse's movements and work with their motion instead of against it.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I say yes. This is from an old thread:



maura said:


> Riding the canter correctly and well in a full seat is difficult, and many more riders do it badly than do it well. As Allison stated above, it requires a degree of abdominal fitness, as well as correct position, relaxation and a good understanding of gait mechanics and how the horse's back moves. That's out of reach for a lot of recreational riders. I would much rather see an elementary or intermediate rider cantering in half seat, allowing the horse to move freely, than someone attempting and failing a full following seat and punishing the horse's back in the process.
> 
> There is nothing inherently insecure about riding the canter in half-seat or two point as long as the rider is in balance.


http://www.horseforum.com/english-riding/riding-canter-half-seat-120340/

I'll add that I miss seeing maura's posts on HF...:-(...I often found her advice very helpful. Allison's posts #9 & #14 on that thread are also very good.

Some horses have trots that are very tough to sit. Our little BLM mustang has a trot that makes me want to pee blood, but his canter is glass smooth. Others trot nicely and have brutal canters.

What worked for me in learning to canter was to start in two point if needed, then 'half seat, and then 5/8 seat, 3/4 seat, 7/8 seat...:wink:

I think the reason is that once the horse was moving at a canter, I could spend a few strides getting the rhythm down so that I could move with him instead of struggling to find the rhythm. If I lose the rhythm during a canter, I'll go to a half seat, pause, and find the rhythm again. And if in doubt, I see nothing wrong with going to a halfseat and sparing the horse's back my jarring butt slamming down on him (or her). It certainly is not traditional western riding, but my skill level requires I do what works and spares the horse's back, and then try to get better with time. Besides, even in a western saddle, I still tend to ride a 'poor-man's' version of a forward seat.


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## Rosebit78 (Mar 26, 2014)

I canter my quarter horse sitting but sometimes with a rougher horse i'll stand in my stirrups, I've never thought about two pointing, that seems odd to me (not that it is, I have just never tried or seen anyone do it). But i would say whatever works for you. Also if you are having trouble with it, then i would start riding bareback some. Be careful if you don't know how, but it will improve your balance to no end. I've never had lessons and taught myself, so one summer I rode almost everyday bareback unless I was competing and now its my preferred way to ride. The horse usually enjoys it much better too since they can feel you so much better.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

I am so deathly afraid of falling that I have not yet rode bareback. My mare takes off at a superfast trot if you grip with your legs and I know myself well enough to say that if I got on her bareback, I would grip with my legs. 

One day I'll do it, but not anytime soon. 

Thanks for all the advice, y'all. Great stuff! I'm going to try and canter in two point tomorrow. My lesson was cancelled today because my instructor had her baby early!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

congratulations to your instructor! boy or girl?

I am not one who can just hop on a work bareback, or even stirrup less, to improve my seat. I could do the stirrupless for a bit, in an arena, but out on the trail, I am not willing to tack any extra chances of falling off, and my age is such that I think much more carefully about that possibility. So, it's easy for some folks to say "ride bareback all day", or ride stirrup-less, but I know my own limits, and i'll figure out a way to work within them.


however, a lungline lesson might help you quite a bit. either on your mare, or on another heavy horse. 

I sometimes start out in half seat at the canter (I am no good at a full two point), and as the hrose settles, and I feel ready, I ease back into a seated canter. 

things that help are to be sure you breathing, and to look up and far off, instead of down at your horse. But, if it makes you feel better, I am working on the same problems you have (except that Z does not run away from the leg). it's just a matter of time and repetition.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

She had a boy! And he was two weeks early, so I showed up for my lesson, tacked up my horse, and stood there until someone bothered to tell me. lol

I'm going to try and canter with my mare in 2-point tomorrow in the small riding ring. I do 2 point all the time, over small jumps, slaloms, small circles, big circles, very fast trot, etc. I think it will be easier. I like the idea of starting out in the two point and then slowly easing back into a 3-point position. This gives me hope!


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

I would love to do longe lining with my mare, but she's terrible at it (she can be trained but I haven't bothered to do that yet.) I think it would be terrifying for both of us until she is better trained.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

bsms said:


> I say yes. This is from an old thread:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wish I could like this 10 times.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

I find 2 point much easier, but then my hips and lower back are not at all supple. Ultimately you have to learn to sit the canter properly. Try starting in 2 point, and as you go along, let gravity ease you into the saddle for a few strides before popping back up into 2 point. It takes any tensing out of the equation since you're basically letting yourself off the hook by being able to get back up out of the saddle at any time. If you keep alternating, you'll start to feel the motion better.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Bc your horse rushes I believe that riding the canter in 2-point will help YOU to gain some confidence. But, really, you should be working to get HIM to slow down and be more obedient, especially since his canter is frightening you. You already know that he could become out of control, and it is natural to be afraid of this.
IF possible, could you ride a more sane horse for awhile? If so, I would suggest riding one full week on a more controllable horse at the walk, in a saddle, without stirrups. You will teach yourself what it feels like to sit deeply and move in rhythm with the horse and THAT will help you to move in sync at the canter.


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## HollyBubbles (Jun 22, 2009)

I think it depends on the horse as well.. when I got my first horse I couldn't canter for the life of me, she was very short backed and had a very choppy canter, so I learnt to canter in 2-point, it wasn't till almost 18 months later that I could finally sit her canter.

On my gelding, he has very long strides and is super comfortable, his canter just sucks me into the saddle, and if I want to ride 2-point, I actually have to work for it.. But this is a horse who's trot is the easiest to sit as well.

I have only ridden my mare a couple times even though I've had her for over a year now, but the few times I have ridden her it's been much easier to ride 2-point and stay secure, though I can sit her canter my legs flail about and it's just generally not a pretty sight haha


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Two point is technically more work because you are suspending your body weight up, sitting the canter, well you sit on your butt, which is pretty easy for most of us. For me, sitting a canter is enjoyable, I sit deep, relax and enjoy the movement and feel my horse pushing from behind, his back muscles meeting my calf muscles. With two point, there's no sitting back, although I enjoy riding two point, it's more work.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

I have used a more relaxed horse before and I can canter on him. My mare is very short backed (very very) and she wasn't cantered much by her last owner for 3 years and who knows before that how much. So it's both me and her that are the issue. I need to learn how to ride a more short-backed horse with balance and confidence. I was hoping doing it in 2-point would work and it seems like it might, from the feedback here. I do 2-point work a lot, so I'm confident I can do that, at least at a very fast trot.

The expert rider who works with her on the weekends can sit her canter fine, but she does have to work with my girl on being more relaxed. As my mare gets more exhausted, she gets stressed and then rushes. Kind of a weird reaction, but then again, she's a pretty unique girl.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

Well, I did it! I cantered today in 2-point or more like half-seat position. It was much better than sitting. I wasn't perfect, of course, but it was better and definitely more comfortable for both of us.

Now I just have to figure out how to stop leaning so far forward. lol


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## nikelodeon79 (Mar 3, 2008)

Glad it worked out for you! I find cantering in two point much easier for me, and likely my horse as well. I am still working at rhythm, and when I try to sit the canter, my butt ends up getting jarred out of the saddle. My trainer has me working on sitting trot, but when we canter she lets me canter in two point. I am working on confidence, particularly at the canter, so cantering in two point where I don't feel like I'm getting bounced out of the saddle is helpful to me.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

nikelodeon79 said:


> Glad it worked out for you! I find cantering in two point much easier for me, and likely my horse as well. I am still working at rhythm, and when I try to sit the canter, my butt ends up getting jarred out of the saddle. My trainer has me working on sitting trot, but when we canter she lets me canter in two point. I am working on confidence, particularly at the canter, so cantering in two point where I don't feel like I'm getting bounced out of the saddle is helpful to me.


@nikelodeon79 One question ... how do you keep from falling forward in 2-point? I found that towards the end of the circle I was cantering in (oval, really) I started going too far over her neck and getting out of balance.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

If you are falling forward at the canter on your horse, I would suggest working on your sitting trot for balance.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

Coming into this one late, but I would agree that it depends on the horse. I've always leaned towards the drafts where sitting a deep seat at the canter was fine, and honestly, necessary as their pace can vary a lot and maintaining a half seat or 2 point can be difficult, at least for me.

But in the last 6 months or so I've started on some different horses that have a much more consistent pace..and I've been able to start riding a bit in a half seat successfully.

The downside, at least for me, is less stability - one is naturally a lot more "secure" in the saddle riding deep versus 2 point or half seat. It's cost me a few spills recently when my horse took an unexpected "deke" or I failed to get enough leg/rein on coming off a line and they cut a corner.

I guess it comes full circle to to the horse at that point.


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## nikelodeon79 (Mar 3, 2008)

ecasey said:


> @nikelodeon79 One question ... how do you keep from falling forward in 2-point? I found that towards the end of the circle I was cantering in (oval, really) I started going too far over her neck and getting out of balance.


I actually had this problem today. My trainer told me that I was "throwing" myself into the canter rather than waiting for the horse to respond to my cues. 

I found that if I focused on keeping my heels down and straightening my posture, it helped a TON. It's almost like you rock back on your heels. You can grab mane and pull to help you balance. My trainer also told me that I was "cheating" by bracing my arms on my horse's neck. When I paid attention to maintaining a good position with my arms (elbows by my sides, wrists vertical rather than "piano hands," etc.) it was almost like I was using my own position to brace (wrists at my hips) rather than relying on the horse's neck to keep me in. It helped a ton and I definitely had an "Ah ha!" moment when it all clicked into place. My trainer said I was working too hard an overriding the horse. As soon as I relaxed and just rode the horse's movements, rather than fighting against them, I felt a TON better.


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## Roux (Aug 23, 2013)

I find sitting the canter easier because it doesn't take the lower leg and abdominal strength that the two point does. But I grew up with western riding so that might account for my comfort level. Two point makes me tired after a while but I can sit all day 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bkylem (Sep 21, 2013)

thetempest89 said:


> If you don't feel comfortable sitting the canter, then maybe you should do some stirrupless trotting. It makes my seat feel 10x's better. Even if I only do a couple laps around the arena. Having your seat is very important and if you're not feeling like your good at it. Then you should work at it, conquer it.


I agree, but I can't seem to gain a good seat where I actually (sit). I also have a natural tendency to keep posting as it is just second nature to me. 
I am a very uncoordinated canterer and my horse is beginning to snicker.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I think its a lot more down to balance and position than it is to individual horses when it comes to sitting at the canter - because I've ridden hundreds of different ponies and horses over the years and can't say that I ever found it hard to sit to the canter on any of them as long as they're going forwards correctly - if they aren't then its better to address that problem first because its harder to do that in half seat especially if your tipping forwards
In the UK people start out learning to canter sitting in the saddle because the half seat is only used when you start jumping or move to more extended canter and gallop


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

If you are tipping forward, straighten up a bit. Make sure you are not gripping with your knees. Instead, make sure the weight can flow without interruption into your heels. An exercise I like is trotting figure 8s around pylons. When turning around the pylon, the horse (and thus the rider) needs to shift weight to the rear. In the straight parts, more weight goes forward.

Of course, I'm also not above cheating and using an Australian saddle. If my weight starts to slide forward, my thighs hit the poleys and it is very easy to bump my weight and balance back.

Another thing that seems to help me is to practice two-point or half seat at a walk. It seems like that ought to be easy, but I find it tough...maybe just my natural awkwardness.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Riding in half seat or two point comes from strength in your front and inside thighs and your calf muscles - but not from gripping with them
Your weight sinks down into your heels but the stirrups don't become like pedals to support/push yourself off
Its easier to practice at walk and then move on to trot
Lots of sitting and posting trot without stirrups will help build up muscle strength


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

The saddle you are using can make a difference, even between a cheaper model and a good one.


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## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

bsms said:


> I'll add that I miss seeing maura's posts on HF...:-(...I often found her advice very helpful. Allison's posts #9 & #14 on that thread are also very good.


I miss Maura too!!  Where has she been??

I liked what she had to say. IMO sitting the canter properly and effectively is harder then a 2 point because it takes a little more technical skill, although a 2 point can be hard to hold bc it takes balance and muscle. I'm a hunter rider so I spend a lot of time in a lighter seat. Out of habit it's a little easier for me. But if I'm trying to do lateral work at the canter it's easier for me to do in a full seat.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

If you are having troubles sitting to the canter then I will bet that you cannot do a sitting trot. 

When teaching a novice I will _never_mallow them to pst to the trot until they have a good sitting trot. This tells me that the rider has learned to relax to the movement, learned correct balance and how to allow the concussion to be absorbed by their body. 
Once they can do this they have little to no problems cantering. On e a order learns the rising trot it is easier so they rarely ever sit to the trot.

The most important thing about riding is the rider's seat. Two point does not allow the order to use the seat. 
I am not against two point, anything but! However, the seat is vital for all aids.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

The advantage to using a halfseat is that it keeps the rider from "bouncing the canter", which is a style I've seen at a local stable and which I also admit I used for a while. Not because I wanted to, but because sitting deep in a cater required more flexibility in the lower back than I had. I also was not riding a lesson horse, and my horse was as awkward at a canter as I was.

Since I wasn't trying to jump, my stirrups were adjusted long enough that standing in them would only give me an inch or so of clearance from the saddle. In that case, even in 2 point my legs are still wrapped around the horse.

And the seat is not vital to all aids. It may be helpful and useful, but beginning riders don't give many cues with the seat - particularly when that "seat" in bouncing up & down like a basketball.

I'm not arguing that riders should not use the seat for cues, or that it is desirable to ride a canter forever in two-point. But a beginning rider needs to learn to ride a canter or gallop right away, because horses sometimes bolt, or decide on their own to canter until they catch up with their companions. When you know you can stay ON the horse, a bolt gets a lot less frightening...and staying on makes it easier to avoid injuries. Prior to switching to a curb bit, the best way to stop Mia in a bolt was to pry my knees apart and call her name softly...because I at least knew that I would stay on her as long as she didn't fall. When an ear flicked back, we were within a couple of strides of stopping.

A half seat is a very easy thing to learn to do adequately. It is secure enough, at least with a long leg, to stay on a bolting horse - even for a newer rider. And it allows the rider to learn the feel of the canter without slamming up & down on the horse's back. Heck, on my first ever canter, I was bouncing so high I looked like I was flying in loose formation with him! My wife immortalized the moment I was 20-30 seconds in to my first attempt at a canter, which I was trying to sit. I'll share it to remind others what some of us beginners go though, as do some of our poor horses. Please note that I at least had enough sense not to try my first time with a bit to jerk around...but no, my seat was not giving ANY "aid" at this point:








​ 
I will also point out that 60 seconds prior to that picture, I was sitting the trot quite easily. What I was not prepared for was how much the horse's back moves in a canter, the power of the movement, and the rhythm of the movement.

I still believe maura was correct:Originally Posted by *maura* 
_Riding the canter correctly and well in a full seat is difficult, and many more riders do it badly than do it well. As Allison stated above, it requires a degree of abdominal fitness, as well as correct position, relaxation and a good understanding of gait mechanics and how the horse's back moves. That's out of reach for a lot of recreational riders.  I would much rather see an elementary or intermediate rider cantering in half seat, allowing the horse to move freely, than someone attempting and failing a full following seat and punishing the horse's back in the process. 

There is nothing inherently insecure about riding the canter in half-seat or two point as long as the rider is in balance._​Oh, and for the record, I rarely post the trot. I just enjoy sitting the trot more, and my horses don't seem to mind...at least not when I'm using a western saddle. If I want to give them some relief, I switch to a half seat or 2 point.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

upnover said:


> I miss Maura too!!  Where has she been??...


I believe some health issues led her to stop posting. She is the one who recommended I read Littauer. I learned a lot from her posts...she was one of those people who, if I saw she had posted on a thread, I'd open the thread - regardless of subject - to see what she wrote.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

If you learn to ride correctly then you do use your seat from the 'get go' - asking a horse to go and whoa involves the seat when done properly - and its a lot easier to do it right from the start rather than have to relearn and get rid of bad habits
Its also not as easy to use your legs for direction cues and forward movement cues in half seat especially if your muscles aren't strong enough. For example if the horse starts to run off with you you'll have a much better chance of slowing it down and stopping it in full seat canter position
If everyone that learns to canter in the UK can figure it out it can't be that hard to do!!


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

@jaydee : I'm afraid you're so experienced, you've forgotten what it's like to be a beginner. I mean no disrespect by that! It's just that your comment does not hold true for my very recent experience.

See, I'm a beginner, and my seat was definitely not giving any cues for several months after I started other than the following:

1. I'm scared ****less. Pleast don't hurt me.
2. I'm pretty sure I'm about to fall.
3. Are we stopping? Oh, okay. Oh, we're not? Okay for that too.
4. I think I just peed a little.
5. Let's go right. No left! No right! Wait! Stop! No, go!

Learning to communicate with your seat, at least for this beginner, was a gradual process that became more clear and easier as balance and confidence was attained. But before that? No way. The signals were "mixed" to say the least.

Point is, in the beginning, my "seat" was communicating a lot of things I'm sure the horse didn't need or want to hear. Hopefully my future lessons will help me improve on that. In the meantime, I'll keep using half-seat or 2-point to ease my transition into a full seat canter.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

bsms said:


> I believe some health issues led her to stop posting. She is the one who recommended I read Littauer. I learned a lot from her posts...she was one of those people who, if I saw she had posted on a thread, I'd open the thread - regardless of subject - to see what she wrote.


@bsms : you are that person for me. So thank you!


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

^^Thanks, but the difference is that maura really knew what she was talking about, while my riding is based on very limited experience and some eccentric views on how things work.

I do think that it makes a difference when one starts up riding past their teens - at 50, for me. Someone who learns at 15 doesn't carry the same emotional and physical baggage an older rider brings. I rode a few times when I was around 20, and I don't remember ever getting scared or tensing up, even when the horse was bolting full speed toward a barbed wire fence. At 20, I was invincible! 

Now...well, I scare a lot easier. I find myself thinking of "What ifs" that never occurred to me in my 20s. Those fears and the stiffness of having some years under my belt affect my riding in a bad way, but I cannot escape them by wishing them away.

My 100 lb, 24 year old DIL could learn cantering by just being light and flexible. The same for my then 15 year old youngest daughter. But my 180 lbs combined with a nagging back injury and the tight legs that go with 40 years of running meant I couldn't just 'relax and enjoy the horse's motion'.

And since maura, with her years as an instructor, concluded using a half seat could be very helpful to the point of being almost mandatory for beginning riders, I feel justified in drawing the same conclusion. For me, the proof came the day after reading maura's post: I went out and tried it. Trooper was suddenly cantering 4-5 times further without complaint, and I FINALLY began feeling the rhythm, even if only briefly. In fact, Trooper suddenly was contentedly cantering 4-5 times farther with my 180 lbs and stiff back than he was with my 100 lb DIL with her noodle back. That tells me it is a good approach for the horse, at least until the rider gets more skill and feel.

I don't spend a lot of time in a half seat cantering now, but it sure helped me progress without souring my horses.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Rosebit78 said:


> I canter my quarter horse sitting but sometimes with a rougher horse i'll stand in my stirrups, I've never thought about two pointing, that seems odd to me (not that it is, I have just never tried or seen anyone do it). But i would say whatever works for you. Also if you are having trouble with it, then i would start riding bareback some. Be careful if you don't know how, but it will improve your balance to no end. I've never had lessons and taught myself, so one summer I rode almost everyday bareback unless I was competing and now its my preferred way to ride. The horse usually enjoys it much better too since they can feel you so much better.


That depends on how round your horse is. If the horse is like mine with mid-high withers and a spine that rises slightly out of the back no matter how much you feed her, bareback is extremely painful. I have even tried using a bareback pad before, but found it better without than with. If I want to ride "bareback", I put on my dressage saddle and ride without the stirrups. Or even one of my very cheap saddles that provide no security at all. It's better for my horse and me because she is not having to deal with my terrible bareback seat that comes from the painful feeling of riding her bareback. When riding bareback, the faster we go, the more my knees rise as I try to lift myself off of her painful spine. I've noticed that the people who prefer and love riding bareback tend to have rounder horses that have little to no withers. I'm sure bareback is wonderful on those horses, but they may not understand the pain of riding some horses bareback! :shock:


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## nikelodeon79 (Mar 3, 2008)

Foxhunter said:


> If you are having troubles sitting to the canter then I will bet that you cannot do a sitting trot.


I can sit the trot. Sitting the trot and sitting the canter are two very different things, IMO. 



ecasey said:


> @jaydee : I'm afraid you're so experienced, you've forgotten what it's like to be a beginner. I mean no disrespect by that! It's just that your comment does not hold true for my very recent experience.
> 
> See, I'm a beginner, and my seat was definitely not giving any cues for several months after I started other than the following:
> 
> ...


LOVE this post!!! I think for me my issues with sitting the canter stem less from technical skill and more from nervousness. I tense up and forget everything. I'm trying to focus on too many things and my horse pays the price. 

Someone also mentioned that it might be that the horse doesn't have a balanced canter if the rider can't seem to sit it. Right now I'm riding seasoned school horses.. and I know the canter issues are definitely about me and not them. 

My trainer is having me canter in two point until I gain more confidence. As soon as I start feeling confident (which will be soon... I can feel it!), I'm sure she'll have me try to sit. 

Someone else mentioned that they'd been riding western their whole lives so they only knew how to sit the canter. Well... I rode western for over 20 years and apparently never learned how. I didn't know about two point then, either, so basically I just kept pounding my horse's back with every stride. I finally understand why the judge's always told me "Sit DOWN on that horse!"


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

ecasey said:


> @jaydee : I'm afraid you're so experienced, you've forgotten what it's like to be a beginner. I mean no disrespect by that! It's just that your comment does not hold true for my very recent experience.
> 
> See, I'm a beginner, and my seat was definitely not giving any cues for several months after I started other than the following:
> 
> ...


I mean no offense, but a lot of what you just wrote is a direct consequence of not being taught correctly or slowly enough. That is a huge reason why lunge lessons on a calm horse are very important to any rider. This is coming from someone who is not by any means a perfect or correct rider and spent a good bit of time not understanding the true mechanics of riding and how my body relates to what my horse is doing. I still have trouble sitting a canter in a saddle, although I can sit a trot all day bareback or saddled and sit a canter without issue bareback. For some odd reason I have a tendency to tighten up when I canter with a saddle, which is something that is going to be fixed this summer. :lol: It really comes down to loosening yourself up enough to follow your horses motion while still maintaining your balance with your core IMO. Of course, like I noted I am not any sort of amazing rider, but I'm always working to become a better one and to make my horses better trained.


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## nikelodeon79 (Mar 3, 2008)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> I mean no offense, but a lot of what you just wrote is a direct consequence of not being taught correctly or slowly enough.


Sometimes, but not always. Sometimes people just have fear. In my case, I call it "irrational fear," but it's fear nonetheless and needs to be overcome if I hope to continue in this sport/hobby. 

There are riders that can hop on a horse and, while they might have a healthy respect as to what a horse is capable of, they don't have true _fear_. And I really don't think someone who doesn't have that kind of fear can possibly understand what it means. I love horses. I love riding. But sometimes I have to talk myself into it. 

My trainer knows just how much to push so I'm not scared out of my mind, but don't stay "safe" and fail to progress in my riding.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> I mean no offense, but a lot of what you just wrote is a direct consequence of not being taught correctly or slowly enough. That is a huge reason why lunge lessons on a calm horse are very important to any rider. This is coming from someone who is not by any means a perfect or correct rider and spent a good bit of time not understanding the true mechanics of riding and how my body relates to what my horse is doing. I still have trouble sitting a canter in a saddle, although I can sit a trot all day bareback or saddled and sit a canter without issue bareback. For some odd reason I have a tendency to tighten up when I canter with a saddle, which is something that is going to be fixed this summer. :lol: It really comes down to loosening yourself up enough to follow your horses motion while still maintaining your balance with your core IMO. Of course, like I noted I am not any sort of amazing rider, but I'm always working to become a better one and to make my horses better trained.


Dead on, exactly! This is precisely why I take anyone who comes to me to ride my horses straight to the lunge as soon as we move out of the walk. It made an impressive difference in my seat, and I learned on a rough gaited horse before moving back to my smooth mare. Lunge lessons are incredibly beneficial and I came to love them-the fact that I could concentrate on myself and not worry about the horse. In fact I would love it if I could find someone to give me a lunge lesson over small jumps. It would help my learn my two point jumping position so much more quickly.

This is also why I am not on the ball with this whole two point canter and half seat and all that. I feel it is so much better for beginners to learn on the lunge and get it right from the start. There are always exceptions to the rule though. However, I don't believe age is one of them. My mom only started riding in her late 40's, and let's just say her weight is that of any middle aged woman who has had children :wink: I noticed she was having problems finding her seat on her rough gaited QH, so I put her on the lunge. After a few lessons and the dreaded taking away of the stirrups, her seat had drastically improved. She can now do a sitting trot (with the exception of the fast trot of course) and I am now working on posting with her. Her canter seat still needs a lot of work (it doesn't help that she has one of those QH that reminds me of riding a freight train :lol but I have seen her catch the rhythm of it before. The canter rhythm I have heard compared to two things: the hula (a previous instructor's comparison) and what I call the "ocean motion". I find the canter to be less of a circular motion and more of a forward back, hence comparing it to ocean waves. Slide up, Slide down, slide up, slide down. Never bounce though. This is the mantra I repeated and eventually it became natural. Now you'll never see air between me and horse at canter (well on the flat anyway, jumping is another matter!). The sitting trot is completely different though. If I'm going to sit a trot, I teach that horse to JOG not trot. My back is not up to the jarring motion most horses have, thus the reason I thank the Lord everyday for providing me a horse who is smooth


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

ecasey said:


> @nikelodeon79 One question ... how do you keep from falling forward in 2-point? I found that towards the end of the circle I was cantering in (oval, really) I started going too far over her neck and getting out of balance.


If you are falling forward you are probably gripping too hard with your knees, and not your lower leg. When you grip with your knees, your lower leg will pivot back from the knee. 

The lower leg counterbalances the weight of your upper body. If the lower leg slips back, it can no longer act as a counterbalance. Then, your upper body will tend to fall forward.

You need to relax your knees. This will allow your lower leg to wrap around your horse's barrel. then, you need to make sure that your lower leg stays forward, at the girth. Then, it will help to balance your upper body. The farther forward your upper body tilts, the farther forward your lower leg needs to go to counterbalance.

Try this.....with the horse standing still, get into your half seat, or cantering position. As you lean your upper body forward, move your lower leg forward so that you don't have to touch the horse's neck and use your hands for balancing on. lean your upper body more forward and see how forward you have to move you lower leg. Soon, you will feel the back of your legs start to burn as the muscles get stretched. Keep doing this until you can almost lay your upper body on the horse's neck without propping yourself on your hands. Your lower leg may be in the "dashboard" position....WAY forward!

Good luck! Take some photos and we can give you some more pointers.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

bsms said:


> ^^Thanks, but the difference is that maura really knew what she was talking about, while my riding is based on very limited experience and some eccentric views on how things work.
> 
> I do think that it makes a difference when one starts up riding past their teens - at 50, for me. Someone who learns at 15 doesn't carry the same emotional and physical baggage an older rider brings. I rode a few times when I was around 20, and I don't remember ever getting scared or tensing up, even when the horse was bolting full speed toward a barbed wire fence. At 20, I was invincible!
> 
> ...


It doesn't matter to me that you aren't an expert rider. You've been where I am and moved on to the next level. So you have not only very important information to share but you can give it from the perspective of recently having done it AND having done it as a middle-aged-ish person, like me. I agree 100% that people who start riding as older adults have a completely different set of issues to contend with than younger riders (which is why I got my 9 year old into it now!)

I rode a horse a lot when I was 22. I trotted, I cantered, I rode all over the **** place out in the country with zero lessons and no fear. I'm a completely different person now at 45. I weigh (a lot) more, my muscles are tighter and less supple, my joints ache for days after a lesson, I have arthritis in my hands, my back sometimes gives me trouble, and the biggest part: I have a massive FEAR of being hurt or worse.

So because I am a different person, I not only ride horses differently than I did before, I also need to be taught differently. This is not only to accommodate my body situation but also my mental situation.

There's no shame in my game, though. I'm out there, I'm riding, and I'm having a ball. I'm just not learning as fast as the younger riders at the stable.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

Foxhunter said:


> If you are having troubles sitting to the canter then I will bet that you cannot do a sitting trot.
> 
> When teaching a novice I will _never_mallow them to pst to the trot until they have a good sitting trot. This tells me that the rider has learned to relax to the movement, learned correct balance and how to allow the concussion to be absorbed by their body.
> Once they can do this they have little to no problems cantering. On e a order learns the rising trot it is easier so they rarely ever sit to the trot.
> ...


I do a sitting trot all the time. With and without stirrups. I wasn't allowed to try cantering in my lessons until I had that part down. Some days I'm better at it than others. I still have room for improvement, of course.

From my experience, cantering is so much more than just about the rider's seat. It's also about the flexibility of your lower back, your ability to feel the rhythm of the horse and accommodate that with all of your body (not just your bum), and last, it's about the rider's ability to conquer fear.

I have immense fear with riding. Every day I get on the horse, I wonder if this will be the day I'm badly hurt. That makes cantering 2x harder than it needs to be, but for me, it doesn't work to say "Get over your fear". It's just a matter of time and practice that does it. I was never like this when I was young. Now that I'm older and have had several health scares, I'm intimately familiar with the fact that I am not immortal.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> I mean no offense, but a lot of what you just wrote is a direct consequence of not being taught correctly or slowly enough. That is a huge reason why lunge lessons on a calm horse are very important to any rider. This is coming from someone who is not by any means a perfect or correct rider and spent a good bit of time not understanding the true mechanics of riding and how my body relates to what my horse is doing. I still have trouble sitting a canter in a saddle, although I can sit a trot all day bareback or saddled and sit a canter without issue bareback. For some odd reason I have a tendency to tighten up when I canter with a saddle, which is something that is going to be fixed this summer. :lol: It really comes down to loosening yourself up enough to follow your horses motion while still maintaining your balance with your core IMO. Of course, like I noted I am not any sort of amazing rider, but I'm always working to become a better one and to make my horses better trained.


I will have to respectfully disagree with the first part of your post.  My instructor has been judged and certified by a government body here in France as an expert in riding and instruction. She's a jumping champion as well. In 15+ years, she's taught over 1,000 riders who've gone from total beginner to become experts in their own right. While her methods might not mirror those you've come into contact with, it doesn't mean they're incorrect.

She does not use the longe line for teaching students. She puts students in the saddle and teaches from there. She doesn't move on to the next skill until the one she's teaching is at a point that it's safe to move on. As I said, she gets results, so it's impossible to argue that she's wrong to do it that way. I think the expression is: There's more than one way to skin a cat. :lol:


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

Allison Finch said:


> If you are falling forward you are probably gripping too hard with your knees, and not your lower leg. When you grip with your knees, your lower leg will pivot back from the knee.
> 
> The lower leg counterbalances the weight of your upper body. If the lower leg slips back, it can no longer act as a counterbalance. Then, your upper body will tend to fall forward.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much! I've loved your posts on this subject before, so I'm thrilled you weighed in. 

I will take some video and photos this Friday. I'm anxious to try all the ideas people have put forward here.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

ecasey said:


> I will have to respectfully disagree with the first part of your post.  My instructor has been judged and certified by a government body here in France as an expert in riding and instruction. She's a jumping champion as well. In 15+ years, she's taught over 1,000 riders who've gone from total beginner to become experts in their own right. While her methods might not mirror those you've come into contact with, it doesn't mean they're incorrect.
> 
> She does not use the longe line for teaching students. She puts students in the saddle and teaches from there. She doesn't move on to the next skill until the one she's teaching is at a point that it's safe to move on. As I said, she gets results, so it's impossible to argue that she's wrong to do it that way. I think the expression is: There's more than one way to skin a cat. :lol:


You are of course entitled to your disagreement, however if your thought process is: 

1. I'm scared ****less. Pleast don't hurt me.
2. I'm pretty sure I'm about to fall.
3. Are we stopping? Oh, okay. Oh, we're not? Okay for that too.
4. I think I just peed a little.
5. Let's go right. No left! No right! Wait! Stop! No, go!

You shouldn't be in control of the horse alone IMO. There is absolutely no way I would let someone on either of my horses alone who were so scared and uncertain, it's a recipe for disaster. 

If you ARE that scared and uncertain (which is not unheard of nor abnormal in any respect) it is very important to move beyond the fear by giving you confidence. It's far easier to gain confidence when you have a solid foundation and are focusing on one thing at a time (your seat and learning to move with your horse) instead of everything that comes with being a new rider -stopping, turning, staying on, being too rough, making them go, not falling, etc, etc, etc. 

Again, this is just my opinion, you obviously trust your instructor to do what's right, and apparently it's working for you and every other person she's ever trained. However, it does need to be said for the rank beginners out there there is another way to learn other than being thrown into control of a 1000 lb prey animal. 

When I started lessons I'd already been on a horse since before I could walk. I was 8, already rode bareback constantly at a walk, trot, canter, and even a gallop. I'd stayed on through several spin and bolts as well and could get my TWH into gait (she was a lazy beast and you had to push her hard to gait). My trainer still had me do several lunge lessons to gauge my seat and ability to control my body. Only when she was satisfied with my comfort level and ability did we move on. That was very par for the course at that particular stable. So while your instructor might believe in starting off somewhere above the very basics, not all of them do. A good many of them don't...


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

nikelodeon79 said:


> Sometimes, but not always. Sometimes people just have fear. In my case, I call it "irrational fear," but it's fear nonetheless and needs to be overcome if I hope to continue in this sport/hobby.
> 
> There are riders that can hop on a horse and, while they might have a healthy respect as to what a horse is capable of, they don't have true _fear_. And I really don't think someone who doesn't have that kind of fear can possibly understand what it means. I love horses. I love riding. But sometimes I have to talk myself into it.
> 
> My trainer knows just how much to push so I'm not scared out of my mind, but don't stay "safe" and fail to progress in my riding.


(for some reason I can never figure out the multi-quote, so apologies for the double post)

There is most definitely people who are "irrationally" fearful. Heck, I am terrified of water to the point where at 33 I still have trouble swimming in a swimming pool alone. :lol: I think with someone who is truly fearful it's even more important to start with the very basics to try and mitigate that fear as much as possible. 

Not quite the same thing, but all the kiddos in my family (15-20 of them) always want to "ride" the horses when they come out for holidays. Some of them are brave as anything, they aren't scared at all no matter what happens. Others are scared to even pet the horse, but still really want to ride. I tailor their "rides" to the individual. The kids that aren't scared are alone, the ones that are "ride" with an older, more confident kid. 

I had one kid who started out sandwiched in a barrel saddle between two other kids. We walked around until he felt comfortable to pull one kid off and then again until I could pull the other kid off, he had a minder on each side, as well as someone leading the horse. It took quite awhile. This was all AFTER spending several other visits getting gradually closer to the horses. Now he loves to ride and while he may never be as foolhardy as some other kids, he may well be a better rider because of that caution in the end.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Fears are funny things. Our brains build associations that often have minimal contact with reality.

I flew a lot of times over Iraq, and was shot at (badly) a lot more times than I could count. It didn't bother me in the least. I've been shot at while on the ground, and it didn't scare me. Annoyed me, but it didn't scare me.

I'm not afraid of falling off a horse, possibly because it hasn't happened to me yet. However, I was hurt a few months after I started riding when my horse exploded during a dismount. That was in Jan 2009, and my back is finally getting back to normal. Mia has had several times where she will stop fine, and ride fine, but panics when she feels me take my right foot out of the stirrup for a dismount. I once spent 2 hours riding her, and she would stop...but bolt at the feel of my right leg moving. I ended up tying the reins around the saddle horn with her head pulled around and got off in the second it took her to get straightened out. She bolted forward with me on the ground, went about 50 feet, then turned and looked at me as if to say, "You aren't coming too?"

I have two fears about riding: that my klutz of a mare will fall with me on her, and that we'll have one of those "Don't you dismount off of me" days.

I'm probably the only person on HF who finds dismounting stressful. And yes, Mia picks up on that tension.

One of the tough things about starting when older - or restarting - is that we are so much more aware of our own mortality. I had only been on a horse a handful of times in my youth when I was offered a chance to ride a green-broke horse for a few days in the mountains with one other person, and it never occurred to me to say no.

Also, for my butt at least, none of the riding I did at a walk or trot prepared me for how a canter felt. I was completely comfortable at a sitting trot well before I tried a canter. The motion, to me, is completely unlike a trot or even a gallop - because yes, I had ridden out many bolts before trying a canter. My experience progressed thru walk / trot / gallop in blind panic / canter. I simply was shocked at the way a canter felt, and humiliated that I was bouncing so bad it looked like I was flying in formation off of my horse.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

ecasey said:


> @jaydee : I'm afraid you're so experienced, you've forgotten what it's like to be a beginner. I mean no disrespect by that! It's just that your comment does not hold true for my very recent experience..


I was so young when I learnt to ride that I honestly can't remember how it felt - though on the whole children are far more relaxed and flexible plus at that time I had no fear - fear usually comes as you get older and become more aware of dangers especially when you've had a few accidents
I did work in riding schools though and have taught a lot of nervous adults so I do understand why people are nervous and how it effects them - and tension is the worst enemy when you get on a horse
Doing things the easy way is not always the safest or the most effective in the long run and the best example of that is that cantering is not just about getting going its also about stopping and if the horse suddenly decides its not going to stop the first thing you want to do is to sit up in the saddle, sit deep and stay calm - and if you can't sit to the canter then you can't do that
I still do some jumping for fun and enjoy a good gallop so I still practice 2 point and half seat - plus I've taught lots of people to do it and really to do it correctly and have a secure balanced position in the saddle is a lot harder and takes a lot more muscle strength than to do a sitting canter. If you're gripping with your knees, the backs of your legs or standing in your stirrups - two things that will make you tip forwards then you are not riding in a correct half seat or 2 point.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

I've always had a fear of horses falling on me, although mine is grounded in reality as I've been fallen on many times in my younger years. When I began re-riding I _really_ had to work through it. Now it's not so bad, although once in a while I get that feeling in my stomach when I'm turning the pony particularly tightly. 

I think my "issue" with the canter is that I am stiffening up for whatever weird reason in my lower back and hips. Blech. I wish I could get a good lunge lesson in, it would be far easier to just focus on what I was doing with my body instead of everything else too. Esp this time of year when my horses are as twittery as can be! Ah well, we'll work our way through it. :lol:


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> I've always had a fear of horses falling on me, although mine is grounded in reality as I've been fallen on many times in my younger years. When I began re-riding I _really_ had to work through it. Now it's not so bad, although once in a while I get that feeling in my stomach when I'm turning the pony particularly tightly.
> 
> I think my "issue" with the canter is that I am stiffening up for whatever weird reason in my lower back and hips. Blech. I wish I could get a good lunge lesson in, it would be far easier to just focus on what I was doing with my body instead of everything else too. Esp this time of year when my horses are as twittery as can be! Ah well, we'll work our way through it. :lol:


It isn't hard to get a broke horse to give a lunge lesson. As long as you teach the horse what lunging on the line is first before putting someone on things usually go OK. My mom's mare is ranch bred and had no clue what a lunge line is, though she'd obviously been round penned before. I taught her how to lunge first, then started putting people on. Just Tuesday she did very well on the lunge trotting while I was teaching a girl to post. The mare has a very responsive gas pedal and is very light on the leg, on top of LOVING a good gallop, so no way was I letting this girl loose in the arena with her before she had posting down!

Find someone in your family that knows horses really well. Make sure your horse can lunge first, and then ask them to give you a "lunge lesson". Really, all you need is someone to lunge the horse for you so you can focus on your seat. I noticed in the picture that you have an australian saddle. What you have to remember about aussies is that they put your legs in a forward position and require you to sit deep in the saddle. I love aussies-they are incredibly comfortable and I think the best trail saddle out there. But they are very different from western or english saddles, and I don't think two point or even half seat would work well in them (and I have ridden in them before). If you are dead set on doing half seat at canter, then I don't think an aussie is the way to go. It's great though, if you are willing to learn how to ride a full seat.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

horseluvr2524 said:


> ...But they are very different from western or english saddles, and I don't think two point or even half seat would work well in them (and I have ridden in them before). If you are dead set on doing half seat at canter, then I don't think an aussie is the way to go...


I think they work great for two point & halfseat. If you do start gripping with your knee and getting too forward, just bump your thigh against the poley and get your position and balance back (& pry the knees apart). I've logged a lot more time in an Aussie-style saddle than anything else. It is also a hard saddle to fall out of, which helps with confidence issues and tension.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

horseluvr2524 said:


> It isn't hard to get a broke horse to give a lunge lesson. As long as you teach the horse what lunging on the line is first before putting someone on things usually go OK. My mom's mare is ranch bred and had no clue what a lunge line is, though she'd obviously been round penned before. I taught her how to lunge first, then started putting people on. Just Tuesday she did very well on the lunge trotting while I was teaching a girl to post. The mare has a very responsive gas pedal and is very light on the leg, on top of LOVING a good gallop, so no way was I letting this girl loose in the arena with her before she had posting down!
> 
> Find someone in your family that knows horses really well. Make sure your horse can lunge first, and then ask them to give you a "lunge lesson". Really, all you need is someone to lunge the horse for you so you can focus on your seat. I noticed in the picture that you have an australian saddle. What you have to remember about aussies is that they put your legs in a forward position and require you to sit deep in the saddle. I love aussies-they are incredibly comfortable and I think the best trail saddle out there. But they are very different from western or english saddles, and I don't think two point or even half seat would work well in them (and I have ridden in them before). If you are dead set on doing half seat at canter, then I don't think an aussie is the way to go. It's great though, if you are willing to learn how to ride a full seat.


I don't have the aussie anymore that was a temporary borrow when I was trying to find a saddle for the pony. It was comfy, but I noticed what you were talking about when I was riding in it. Right now I have an english (AP I believe) and a barrel saddle. It's frustrating because I am totally fine cantering bareback. Like no issues at all, put me in a saddle and sometimes I get it and sometimes it's just awful. Of course, right now I'm out of shape, no cantering this winter and very little trotting either. It was just nasty. But the ice is gone (even if we got 8" of snow last night) so it'll come back soon. And soon (!!!) the ground will be dry enough for me to ride in areas I can canter! I love my state... :?

My issue is getting someone to actually come out to my house and lunge my horses while I ride them. I lunge mine for the lessons I give to the family kids, but getting someone to do it for me seems darn near impossible. My niece is 9, going on 10, so we'll see, maybe she will ready by the end of the summer. I'm sure she would get the biggest kick out of that! :lol: Although it would be a great lesson for her on how we never stop learning. We will see how she progresses anyways. In the meantime I will just keep working along and trying to convince someone to come out.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> Of course, right now I'm out of shape, no cantering this winter and very little trotting either. It was just nasty. But the ice is gone (even if we got 8" of snow last night) so it'll come back soon. And soon (!!!) the ground will be dry enough for me to ride in areas I can canter! I love my state... :?


At least you have pastures! It's all desert rock and mountains where I live. Some people like to gallop in the washes (that's where all the water goes when it rains) but I think it's dangerous because 1: that is the favorite spot of snakes and 2: there is so much brush you can't see what's coming at you whether it be horses, dogs, people, bikes, or motorized vehicles. I would take the snow any day over this place. Snow has many negatives but it is also pretty to look at and you can just go inside to escape it. I wish I lived somewhere where I enjoyed riding. Some people out here think trail riding through the desert is just the best thing ever-it may work for them but it doesn't work for me! And people wonder why I spend so much time in the arena perfecting skills. I just don't enjoy trails out here. Cantering is risky, so it's walk trot with the sun beating down. Not my cup of tea. Someday I'm moving to the Carolinas!


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

There are plenty of good cantering spots on our trails and good galloping places too. Even on the gravel roads around my place we have plenty of that, although we have to ride the highway to get there.

ETA - The downside is the winters. Oftentimes I cannot ride out of the paddock for 6 months without walking on 3" of glare ice. The rest of the property is covered in huge, deep drifts too...


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

horseluvr2524 said:


> ... I just don't enjoy trails out here. Cantering is risky, so it's walk trot with the sun beating down. Not my cup of tea. Someday I'm moving to the Carolinas!


It is my cup of tea. I love the desert. However, I'll admit it is really hard to find a place where a horse can safely canter...which is part of why my mare has issues. She needs to be taken for some long hard runs, but even the dirt roads where I live have too many rocks and gullies and steep spots for my taste. There are washes near me, but I jog in them enough to know they have lots of big rocks just under the surface of the sand - not good for me jogging, so it can't be too good for a horse! But I also enjoy being able to take pictures like this from our corral:










There is a reason, however, why I consider a trot to be the finest gait...at least for where I live. :?​


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

For me, learning to canter for myself (and my daughter) is just a safety issue. I want to be able to stay on the horse if she bolts off on a trail someday. Otherwise, trotting is fine with me.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Being able to stop the horse if it bolts with you might be a good idea - I've come across a few people that claimed a horse was bolting with them but in truth they just didn't know how to stop it or slow it down once it got into an extended canter and was a bit too keen or a bit too strong
Out of interest Casey - describe here how you ask a horse to go from canter to trot or how your trainer has taught you to go from walk to halt because to me these are things you should learn to do correctly at the very start.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

For me (canter to trot) I sit deeper and give a series of half halts. If that doesn't work, continue with signals and add in voice "eeeaaaasy, trrot". If I'm still ignored I begin turning her in circles that get gradually smaller. Usually I don't have a problem-my mare has excellent brakes the majority of the time.

As for the other slightly off topic conversation-I was born in Alaska so that probably has a lot to do with my hatred of heat. Don't ask me how it is up there though because my parents moved to Ohio when I was still a baby so I don't remember any of it.


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> I mean no offense, but a lot of what you just wrote is a direct consequence of not being taught correctly or slowly enough. That is a huge reason why lunge lessons on a calm horse are very important to any rider. This is coming from someone who is not by any means a perfect or correct rider and spent a good bit of time not understanding the true mechanics of riding and how my body relates to what my horse is doing. I still have trouble sitting a canter in a saddle, although I can sit a trot all day bareback or saddled and sit a canter without issue bareback. For some odd reason I have a tendency to tighten up when I canter with a saddle, which is something that is going to be fixed this summer. :lol: It really comes down to loosening yourself up enough to follow your horses motion while still maintaining your balance with your core IMO. Of course, like I noted I am not any sort of amazing rider, but I'm always working to become a better one and to make my horses better trained.


MN, I have trouble with this too, on Aprll. I have found it to be particularly when either one of us is tense or nervous, horse or person. I use a half seat until I can get the rhythm, like someone else here described. 

I am interested in trying lessons on a lunge line. Maybe it will help us both


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

jaydee said:


> Being able to stop the horse if it bolts with you might be a good idea - I've come across a few people that claimed a horse was bolting with them but in truth they just didn't know how to stop it or slow it down once it got into an extended canter and was a bit too keen or a bit too strong
> Out of interest Casey - describe here how you ask a horse to go from canter to trot or how your trainer has taught you to go from walk to halt because to me these are things you should learn to do correctly at the very start.


I know you didn't ask this question, but just to give you an idea of how I was taught ... To go into the canter _from_ trot, if we are going in a left direction, I have my inside leg on her girth and the outside leg behind the girth and give pressure. I also cluck a few times and say "Gal-_loh!_" which is the French word for canter ("gallop" - they don't pronounce the "P"). My inside rein is long and my outside rein has a little contact. Sometimes I have to open that outside rein a little when she tries to cut inside the corners or if she's thinking about shying away from something outside the riding ring.

I hope that's right! She seems to respond to it well. She doesn't jump into the canter yet. She still trots a few strides before she starts. We need to work on that.

To go from canter to walk to halt, I gather the reins so they're even (because when cantering I was told to have the inside rein longer), then I start leaning back, eventually putting my butt back in the seat. Right now I'm riding in half-seat or very forward seat. It worked a treat! But this is the first time I've done it that way, so I can't say as I'm anywhere near competent in it yet.

Today we were practicing walk to halt (and canter to walk) because my new trainer (the other is on maternity leave) says I pull too hard on the reins and rely too much on them, causing the horse to jam her front feet into the ground which isn't nice for her shoulders or her next take off.

So we practiced me giving my horse an advance signal by me leaning back deep in the saddle, letting out my breath, and just holding the reins without pulling my arms back. I also said, "Hohhhh..." My elbows stayed at my sides.

The movement of my body backwards pulled the reins back a little but less than what I was doing before. She has a much smoother stop now than how I was having her to it before. I feel like a real jerk for pulling on her so much before. We don't use a bit, but still, that band on the face has just as much strength to it.

-----
moving on from answering your question (which I'm not even sure I answered properly!)
-----

In my lesson today I did quite a bit of cantering. Maybe it was only a little, but it felt like a lot. ha, ha. Anyway, here I was thinking I was in 2-point or that I was going to do 2-point, but when I look at the videos my son took, I realize I'm more in half-seat or maybe even just very forward seat?? Not sure. This is probably because when I was riding in 2-point last week, I felt like I was falling forward. So this time I kept my upper body more leaned back. I used a little mane to keep from going too far back, but I'm not sure I needed it. It was more like a security blanket.

I'm going to post the video and ask for everyone's feedback once I'm back from dinner. I know I need a lot of work, but I don't look nearly as bad as I thought I did! And I felt really in control and I was able to take my time getting my reins even and slowing her down without jerking her head sideways and without panicking. I think I'm on my way to figuring this out. Just the challenge of it makes me want to do it more!


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

Okay, here's my video. You know what I hate about videos? They always shock me with how fat I look in them. I can't possibly be that fat, right? ha ha

Anyway, I mentioned this in my previous post, I was thinking in my head I was going to ride in 2-point, but apparently I was not doing that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this looks more like half-seat or just more forward riding. ??? I'm clueless, as you can see. My weight was definitely in my heels and I was not riding on my bum for sure.

Remember, I'm a beginner. This is the third time I've cantered on this horse and I had very little cantering experience before this. I still have lots to learn. I'd love to get your feedback. Please don't be too mean. 

These are several short clips all put into one video.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Not too bad! If you notice, when you lean back to ask for walk, you stop bouncing so much. You don't see as much air between butt and saddle. I did not get the canter right until one lunge lesson where I decided to lean back instead of forward. This forced me to have a deeper seat, and when I did that I finally caught the rhythm. Once you figure out that much, then it's simply a matter of learning how to ride with a deep seat and keep your shoulder-hip-heel alignment. From there you learn that just the shoulders back slightly combined with a gentle squeeze of the reins (like squeezing water from a sponge) is enough to get a gentle stop. The main thing with people learning how to canter is that they believe they need to lean forward. They don't. This actually throws you off balance. I caught the rhythm once I figured out that I don't need to lean forward. Not even my dressage trainer who gave me lunge lessons caught this. Sometimes it's such a slight lean that you can't even see it but it does effect your balance.

Rode today and realized that my cues for transitioning down are completely different lol must have changed without my noticing! Since I ride with a deep seat, I actually lift my weight off the saddle into almost a half seat and gently squeeze while loosening my rein. I also remove my cue for continuing the canter, which is a squeeze, let go, squeeze, let go of my inside leg at the girth while cantering. The other cues I wrote about are actually for my mom's (western) mare. It's second nature to me to give the different cues and not get them mixed up. Don't ask me how I do it, I just do! Big problem with me and my mare-since I did all the training on her sometimes it's hard for me to pick apart things step by step of exactly what I did to make my mare do that. We know each other so well we kind of just read each other's minds in a way. Most of the time. Sometimes I get left behind and she does something totally unexpected. =P horses... gotta love 'em.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

These pictures are about a year old, and will prove why fat old guys with limited skill shouldn't write about riding. However...

This would be a typical trail riding position for me. Most of my weight in in my rump, with my feet a bit forward. This is a good position if you anticipate your horse doing "The OMG Crouch" sometime...








​ 
This is my weirdo version of a long legged forward seat, while trying to get Mia to speed up and pass Trooper & my daughter. This is about a half-seat position for me. My weight is mostly in my thighs & stirrups. If you draw a vertical line up from my stirrups, about half of my weight is in front and half behind. My daughter has a much more traditional western seat, although the saddle is too big for her. Her heels are almost under her hip, and she just looks straight in the saddle. Her weight is in her seat.








​ 
This was Mia making a good faith effort at stopping from a canter. A vertical line from my stirrups would put more of my weight behind that in front, which is fine for stopping IMHO. A canter will put a bit more lean forward to a forward seat, and my rump is slightly out of the saddle. Because of the poleys on an Australian saddle, she could slam to a full stop and I would stay in the saddle...bless whoever it was who invented them:










Of course, like a lot of chubby old guys, my mind tries to tell me this is how I look...but sadly, neither Mia nor my wife's photos support my imagination:​









This is how Harry Chamberlin described it:








​ 
Of course, if your heels are under your hip from the start, you don't need to lean forward...you can just unfold your body and be balanced. I definitely wouldn't call you too forward, but my standards may be a bit twisted. 

If you watch this video, you'll see Craig Cameron leaning back some, as horseluvr2524 mentions. I'd love to have one of those machines! Without a machine, I had to learn on a poor horse and struggle to catch the rhythm of the horse. After a lot of practice, Trooper has a good canter that is easy to get in synch with and we can go 5-10 minutes and he is happy and I am too. 

But Mia is still very awkward at a canter. She's lived most of her life in a corral, and I've taken to working on her canter from the ground. It actually made me feel better about myself. Watching her canter with no one on her back, I can see how awkward and even unbalanced she gets. It is tough to find MY balance on a horse who is having trouble with HER balance even when unsaddled! 

Meanwhile, little Cowboy's canter is so smooth that there is nothing to move with. His TROT makes me feel like I'm going to pee blood, but his canter is like glass. 






Keep on working it with your instructor. There will come a point where your body catches on, and suddenly cantering will feel better than trotting. In fact, Trooper has reached a point where HE prefers a relaxed western lope to a trot, so it will happen. If Trooper can relax cantering with ME on his back, it is possible for anyone.​


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

Ecasey, this is a little trick my coach told me when transition down from the canter to trot. Just widen your hands, keeping those elbows at your side. No need to pull back. I get a nice smooooooooth down transition.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

Sorry, on another topic, that's a small ring - is your coach only letting you canter one time around or are you stopping on your own accord because of the other horse?

Honestly, when we canter in lessons, aside from the fact we work in an arena/ring drasticlaly larger than that, we do at least 3-5 laps at a sustained canter. Sometimes it takes me a half a lap to find my seat properly (especially now that I'm working on my half seat as well) and get in a nice smooth rythm with my horse.

Perhaps ask your coach to get the other rider off the rail and into the center of the ring and take 5 or 8 laps around sustained and you may find you "figure things out" faster.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

You're doing just fine! It's too bad that just about the time you get relaxed and start getting the timing right, it is over. That little horse isn't helping a lot by being counterbent and out of balance...rushing around like that. I think you did a great job. Eventually, you will be able to sit back and roll your seat with the movement of the horse.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

PrivatePilot said:


> Sorry, on another topic, that's a small ring - is your coach only letting you canter one time around or are you stopping on your own accord because of the other horse?
> 
> ....


The system they use for new canterers and new horses to the stable (mine arrived in January in need of training with regard to being a lesson horse for a beginner) is they all start off in the smaller ring. They also start off with just one time around, so the student can take it in small doses. Then they graduate up to going 3x around the ring. Once they can do that very well in both directions, they graduate up to the big arena. It's really big. I'm not sure of the measurements.

The reason they do it this way is because, in the smaller ring, the horses go slower and are easier to control by a beginner. Once the horse gets into the wide open space of the arena, two things happen: (1) on a beginner rider or a less experienced horse, they go much faster; and (2) the chance of them getting out of control due to the beginner rider's lack of confidence/control is much greater. A horse out of control in a big arena is a much bigger deal than when it happens in a small ring.

So far (on another horse) I've cantered around this small ring 3x in each direction. I have not yet done that on this horse. As a result, I haven't moved up to the big arena. I have, however, ridden this horse in there at a walk and trot, and I can verify from experience that she rides much more forward in there. No way do I want to canter with her in there yet. I'm not ready.

ETA: They use that other horse to help my horse get the signal that it's time to slow down. Once she and I have that down pat, they move the other horse in the lesson into the center so we have a wide open ring to use.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

@Allison Finch : Thank you! I appreciate your feedback. Yes, my girl has a lot to learn along with me. When she's ridden in the big arena by a more experienced rider, she is balanced and smooth - well, she is after she's gotten some of her **** and vinegar out of her system. ha ha.

When she gets a little panicky, with me riding not so well and being in the smaller space, she starts getting all wonky and goes a little to rush-rush. Once I get myself all figured out, I'm sure she'll improve. She's getting worked out weekly by an expert, so hopefully she won't go too downhill having me on her back all week. 

@BSMS : Thanks for the photos and explanations! They really help, especially now that I have a video of myself to compare them to.

My instructors actually teach learning to canter by having the student lean waaaay back in the seat and just hold on to the front of the saddle. The idea is to get your body and brain around the idea that you should be sitting deep in the seat to eliminate any bouncing. Control of the reins and a nice transition come later, after the deep seat is figured out by the student.

The problem is that when I tried it that way with _this_ horse, I bounced all over the place, really badly, and both the horse and I ended up a mess after just one time around. I was ready to never do it ever again and I'm pretty sure my poor mare would have seconded that motion if she's been given the option.

That's what made me start this thread and consider other options. Last week I rode in 2-point. This week I rode in a half-seat or just a forward seat. I think eventually I'll be able to do it properly in a full/deep seat. It's just going to take me some time to figure out the rhythm and gain some confidence. The good news is, I'm not so panicked now that I'm afraid to try!

@horseluvr2524 : you mentioned that when I leaned back, I bounced less. It's funny you say that, because from inside my body, this is what it felt like I was doing:

When I was riding, I was pretty much standing in my stirrups. I was making sure to not straighten my legs all the way and also making sure to keep my weight in my heels with toes up.

The fact that it looks like my butt is bouncing in the saddle is actually the saddle coming up to my butt and making contact, not the other way around. There was no weight whatsoever in my butt. Is that crazy? I'm moving with the rhythm of the horse, but not with my butt. It was all from my legs and then my torso just following along. I think I just said the word butt way too much. 

When I slowed down towards the end of the canter around in the ring, I would stand straighter in the stirrups and lean back, still standing, though. It's only when she slowed a bit, down to a trot, that I actually sat down, and then it felt like I was popcorn again. But since I knew we were stopping again, I just went with it.

I guess this is why I'm going to keep doing it this way instead of trying right off the bat with a full seat. Doing it that way turned me into a very dangerous piece of rider popcorn. My horse didn't appreciate it and neither did my 45 year old heart. Oh, yeah, and neither did my butt. ha ha


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

sarahfromsc said:


> Ecasey, this is a little trick my coach told me when transition down from the canter to trot. Just widen your hands, keeping those elbows at your side. No need to pull back. I get a nice smooooooooth down transition.


I'm going to try this!


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

That's true-and the type of horse you learn on makes a difference. I learned on a barely 14 hand mustang/morgan. She had those middlish rough gaits-not quite the horror of some QH, pure mustang, and grade horses I've ridden. Her canter had a very distinct slide up, down motion to it so once I caught on, it was an easy rhythm to follow. However, it did take me I think at least five 45 minute lunge lessons to get it! It might have been a few more, can't quite remember. But learning on the little mare made riding my already ultra comfy mare so much easier.

I'm sure that if I had learned on my mom's "freight train" of a quarter horse, it would have taken me a lot longer to get the hang of it. Riding that mare... just really a freight train. It's just a thundering extremely powerful knock you around kind of motion that I find a lot of QH's have. So different from my light little jumper... Thank God I am blessed with such a smooth horse! Of course, the rough gait she lacks she makes up for by being a difficult ride-you have to have that "lead mare" authority air and outsmart her, and she is dang smart!

Anyway, I feel for you. Since you are at the same barn as your trainer, why don't you ask if there is an older horse that has a well established lope/canter that you could take a lunge lesson on? Sometimes it helps to get on a different horse before returning to yours.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

The only horse-sized horse she has that is suitable for a beginner, I've already ridden at a canter and his gait is _much_ smoother. I learned the normal way with him. The other horse-sized horses (not ponies) she has are all too much for me. They're jumpers for experienced riders only. So I'm going to have to learn with my girl, but I'm okay with that.

I am going to look at another local barn that teaches dressage next week. I'm thinking they might have a different approach that could help me round out my learning. I'll still do lessons on my horse, but supplement with a lesson a week over there, maybe. We'll see what they say.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

I see the logic now on the small arena thing (they do the same thing at our barn for very beginners, although it's a smaller secondary inside arena), but I must admit, the practice of using another horse and rider as a "roadblock" to get the cantering horse to stop just seems wrong to me. If a horse ever spooked and bolted or a rider lost it that other horse and rider is apt to get mowed down.

You're also way beyond the point of "absolute beginner" as well though (IMHO) based again on the many beginners I've observed over the years - at our lesson barn you would have been moved to the bigger arena with group lessons long ago. 

I do see that the mare in question does have some spirit though and there is merit to keeping them in a smaller space to limit their speed IF your barn has no other options horse wise, but perhaps instead of focusing on trying different seats at this point ask your instructor to help you controlling your pace instead - half halts and other cues should get her to canter at a slower pace which you may find easier to ride in many respects. I still think you're going to need more than one lap around in order to work on and achieve that, however - as I mentioned and others also touched on, in a ring that small by the time you get cantering and "together" you're almost finished, and at the pace your mind runs at the beginner level you don't even process things fast enough to really work on them in that short of a period of time.

In aviation, we call it being "behind the plane" - the plane keeps flying but the students mind is still about 15 seconds behind it and sometimes it's hard to keep up in the beginning. I found the same thing happen to me plenty in riding, and heck, now that I'm riding a much more spirited warmblood mare it's happening to me again - it cost me a spill just a few weeks ago for that matter. 

Just my $0.02.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

I would much rather see your horse comfortable on a large lunge line and add you to that. The lunge offers comfort in knowing that the person controlling the lunge has control over the horse. The rider knows that the horse can only get SO stupid, so they can relax a bit. Then, the horse can canter for a longer period of time allowing the rider to learn to relax and work toward moving better with the horse. The problem with how your instructor is doing this is that the horse is free to bolt around the ring with little to control it and you never get the time to settle into the canter. Between the bolting horse and knowing that you won't get time for either you or the horse to settle, the only thing you know is that the canter is short lived.

I would think that this would almost give your tension more practice than your canter work.

I would put you on a large circle lunge, after the horse was trained enough to know not to bolt around, giving you a nice rolling and balanced canter.

Something like this. I like how this instructor has a neck strap for the rider to hold along with the reins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_o8wm7xOHk


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

You don't look bad. At least your tushie isn't doing this:










I feel you will not get comfortable at the canter until you address the counter bending. It looks to me when your mare counter bends, your inside shoulder and probably hip are following her head as she looks outside causing you to feel unbalanced.

At least that was this 53 year old's experience when I reentered the riding world six years ago after a 15 year hiatus.

Maybe you can have your instructor help you to teach your mare to flex at the poll slightly (no more than one or two degrees in either direction) to the left and right. Relieves tension in my gelding actually when he gets his 'Arab on'. The counter bending is his favorite evasion tactic!


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

I'm not sure, but I think my instructors both work first on the rider and then on the horse issues, or where possible, both at the same time. Usually, students use the school's horses and they (the horses) all know their stuff. In my case, I have my own horse who wasn't ridden much over the past few years before I got her, so they have a lot of work to do for both of us.

As I mentioned somewhere on this thread, the only one time around the ring thing is temporary. Once I have some control and confidence, the other horse moves to the center and I go around 3x. Maybe it's first 2x then 3x, I can't remember. That's what we did with the last horse (a school horse). I'm in private lessons with my daughter who rides a dead broke school pony, so the instructors are very comfortable with their technique.

I wish I could do some longe line work, but so far, that has not been part of their plan. And when I mentioned it for my daughter, I was told no, that their way was preferred over that way. For now, I'm happy following their orders since they do get great results.

On my last time around the ring, the instructor told me how I could work on getting my horse to run more calmly. Also we worked quite a bit on getting her to keep a steady pace with walking and trotting. It's a long road we have ahead of us, as you can see, but we're working on it. 

I really appreciate all the feedback and ideas you all are sharing. I feel like I go into my riding better informed and in a position to ask for more things from my instructors and myself.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I think the horse is your biggest problem - it's unbalanced and not really well schooled. By the time he gets into canter he's already going too fast for a ring that size and looks almost out of control. Its his gait that's causing you to bounce around so much
Try to quieten your hands - lots of flapping going on and try to go into canter from an energised sitting trot - shorter stride but with impulsion so he's isn't running around on a long stride from the start. The other pony/horse would be better placed off the rails - or is he the only thing that stops the horse you're riding?


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

We will find out if that's the only thing stopping her because I think next week I'll be going around more than once at a time. 

I'm going to give those suggestions a shot too, as much as I'm capable anyway.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Thought you might like to hear how my mother's lunge lesson went today. First we worked on posting, and she picked it up fast and soon was posting without holding on to the saddle! I was so proud. Then we worked on canter and once again she seemed to catch on quick, probably her muscles remembering her last lunge lesson a while back. Of course, right as she got the hang of it, a BEE landed in my hair. The neighbor was messing with the bees I guess cleaning the "queens" out. When I took my gloved hand to my hair the thing stung my glove. Then, I lost track of the lesson (the horse started galloping because of my antics) as I'm trying to get my glove off, another bee flies into my hair! The ****ed things were starting to swarm despite the gas they use because they were so ****ed.

S I manage to get Belle stopped and unclipped the lunge line and took off for the house (they were really starting to come after me by now) and told my mom to untack (I have bright red hair...). Then by the time she's untacked the bees were swarming her and she got stung on the nose! My poor mom was so upset and started yelling at me. I had to catch her horse and put her in the turnout. I have to give her a call in a few hours and check on her since she went back to the house we are trying to sell.

Thankfully, the neighbors did apologize and promised never to mess with the bees again while we are riding (you'd think that would be common sense). Then they walked my mom's mare who was galloping so much she was being swarmed so they took care of that for me. I just feel so terrible that this happened right when my mom was getting the hang of it! And she only gets to ride once a week right now. What a horrible end to a pretty good lesson.

The bees have never swarmed like this before. Hopefully it won't ever happen again. I wish they would have given us a heads up. Now my mom is saying she wished we hadn't signed on for this lease, among other things. But she is already an emotional person, so who wouldn't get upset over being stung on the nose! Ouch! I think she'll calm down in a while.

Why did the hobby farm neighbors have to get into bees? I am going to be so upset if my horses are stung anywhere in the girth, saddle, or face area. This would be a really bad time for us financially to have to make an emergency vet call.

On a side note, yes I know bees go after things that move. How would you feel with an angry bee in your hair and others on the way? When they are angry and swarming, I think the best thing to do is run like hell for the house. I wasn't moving anyway and they started swarming me. But I know. Really the best thing to do is not freak out and they will leave you alone.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Looks like all the horses are ok. Will check them over more thoroughly tomorrow. That was quite the fiasco. The neighbor said we were flailing. Yes, we were flailing. I won't deny it. We made the situation much worse than it could have been. I just wish the lesson hadn't ended like that. Neighbor called to apologize again and when I suggested that she call my mother in a few days and explain why that happened (basically why the bees did that. Have explained animal behavior to other people before, including mom, and helps them understand why the unfortunate situation happened.), she said that she wasn't going to call my mother to give her a "bee talk", basically "that is just ridiculous". Whatever. Guess I need time to cool off too.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Sorry off thread a bit - but that must have been terrifying - glad to hear you all seem to be OK


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

Yes, wow, that sounds really scary. Glad you're all still in one piece. And not covered in stings!


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

I don't want to start a whole new thread about this, but I went to see a chiro yesterday for an unrelated issue (I awesomely managed to pop out a couple ribs, felt wonderful I can tell you) and brought up how my left shoulder is like 1-2" higher than my right shoulder. Apparently it is, but it's my entire left side, it's all canted up and in/forward. My left hip (which has always been problematic for me, because it will cramp/give out randomly) was REALLY tight. The entire left side of my back was/is markedly tighter than the right side as well. Somewhere along the line I did something to myself and I've been off balance since.

I'm wondering if this might solve or at least help solve my cantering issues...


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Yeah, sorry for being OT. Can you believe the neighbor's were refusing to move their bee hives away from our horses after this? (they were right next to our stalls and arena/turn out). We had to call our landlord and have him call them before they finally agreed to move their bee hives. Hives are supposed to be moved sometime next week. I posted the whole story in the farm forum.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

That's ridiculous, especially after the incident. You would think that they would at least attempt to make it safe for everyone. I doubt they would want the hives right next to their house.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

I found out the answer to your question, jaydee.  The pony's butt was not the only thing keeping my horse from continuing on. I had a lesson yesterday where I had to do several rounds of cantering from both trot and a dead stop without the pony in the way, and my horse stopped when asked. Phew! I'm so happy I don't have a runaway on my hands. At least not yet. ha ha


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

I don't think any decently trained horse is going to refuse to stop without reason in a small arena, or even a large one. It's when you hit the wide open spaces that it can get scary. Especially on those mustangs that just get "the call of the wild" every once in a while. Although, every breed can do that, not just the mustangs. Mustangs just tend to do it more often where I live, but I think that's more due to improper handling of the horse than it's undomesticated ancestry.


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## bkylem (Sep 21, 2013)

I find it much easier to canter in the two-point position as I have much greater balance and confidence. It is also much easier on the horse than the constant bouncing.
Having said that, I know that I need to work on my sitting position as I think it is the proper (though harder) way to canter. I feel like the two- point is a bit of a crutch, but it's a beautiful crutch.


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## SashaMerlin96 (Mar 22, 2014)

I actually find sitting easier,but when I first started cantering, 2 point seemed easier. My instructor told me to sit, it seemed impossible at the time. She told me that if I didn't start sitting she would put superglue on my saddle. She woz joking obviously. 

Oce u get used 2 it, it's really comfortable. Try to sort of flow with your horses movement, lean back when u sit, in 2 point, u lean forwards, that is also a form ov urging ur horse to get faster. If u do want to squeeze, do it more with ur thighs than ur calf, coz then if u use ur calf she will just go faster, u will fing ur self in bed the next morning with soar muscles. Believe me, I know.

Also it might depend how comfortable with the stride of the horse u r. It is harder to sit through a canter on horses with a bumpy canter stride.my horse Merlin doesn't have that bouncy a canter so I can just about fall asleep on him. You ll learn to love cantering and I find sitting easier, just look forward put ur butt in e saddle, heels down shoulders back and well, cater I guess. Good luck!🐎🐎🐎🐎🐎


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

ecasey said:


> I found out the answer to your question, jaydee.  The pony's butt was not the only thing keeping my horse from continuing on. I had a lesson yesterday where I had to do several rounds of cantering from both trot and a dead stop without the pony in the way, and my horse stopped when asked. Phew! I'm so happy I don't have a runaway on my hands. At least not yet. ha ha


I hope that's given you some confidence although cantering in such a small circle is hard work for a horse that size if it isn't very fit - you really must work on your sitting canter before you hit the great outdoors and need to be able to sit deep and straight if he ever should get a bit strong and not want to listen to you


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