# Can a fearful, timid horse ever change?



## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

This sounds like either the rider is not confident enough (I don't think this is the case) or the horse is spooking to get out of work. I think he is probably spooking to get out of work if he is afraid of everything. Especially if those things don't scare him when he's not being ridden or worked with (leaves, cats, ground poles, water tank). Just keep riding and pushing him through. When he spooks, don't make a big deal about it, just get him to move past it and continue asking him to do whatever it is you were trying to do. If this means carrying a crop or dressage whip and whacking him once or twice so be it, just be prepared for any reaction he can give like bolt, buck, rear, etc. I had to get after my mare and get a bit tough on her when she continually spooked at the far side of the arena, slowed down and stared at it, not wanting to move, side passing away from it (not asked for), etc. Once I had been working her on a regular basis she quit.


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## Alhefner (Nov 11, 2015)

sharon1927 said:


> My 8 year old OTTB gelding has been off the track for about 18 months. My husband actually owned him when he was racing so we've known the horse for about three years now. He was always a "nervous Nellie" and was always very fearful of just about everything (leaves, cats, barrels, ground poles, water tank, etc.). I thought that would change when he retired from racing, but as I said, he's been off the track for 18 months now and he's not much braver than the day he retired.
> 
> I tried all the usual things first - giving him a few months of downtime when he retired to just "be a horse" and enjoy plenty of turnout with buddies; getting him off sweet feed and onto a pelleted feed; extensive groundwork and desensitizing to a variety of objects; getting him out of the round pen and out on trails rides all over our 24 acres; even calming supplements.
> 
> ...


I may be WAY off base here but, I'm going to relate what I have to you anyway.

Now, this is about a dog with extreme fear issues and not about a horse but, it may be beneficial.

I adopted Dany D. Dog from the local shelter a few years ago. In the shelter and for the first day, Dany was just a happy-go-lucky dog. On the second day, while taking her out for a walk, I lost my grip on the retractable leash and it bounced down the stairs behind her.

Dany took off! She tried desperately to get away fro that scary, noisy, thing behind her. I had to tackle her in order to get control again.

From that time, she was terrified at anything and everything! She was friendly and happy around people but, any sudden noise or any object blowing in the wind wiped out all of her ability to think and all she wanted to do was to "get away".

I tried every method of desensitization I could find and nothing helped. She remained scared for her life any time we were outside. the only exception was when we went to the desert to hike and she was off leash... THERE, she was almost fearless but, distant gunshots from target shooters would still send her over the edge.

Finally, I spoke to the vet about trying Prozac. The vet agreed that it was worth a shot so, I put Dany on a low dose of Prozac. I took about a month for any effect at all to be seen but after that, she was able to be more calm and start to mentally process things. After six months, I weaned her off of the Prozac because she had gained the ability to get "spooked" without totally panicking.

Now, Dany still gets "spooked" fro time to time but, she doesn't "freak out". Instead, she'll sort of distance herself a little and look to me. I'll put on a happy, fun, tone of voice and ask her "Dany! Was that scary? What is it?". that generally gets Dany to a happier frame of mind so I can then say, "Let's go see!" then lead her over to show her the "scary thing" and let her examine it.

Sooooo, what all this boils down to is that you MIGHT benefit from some temporary assistance in the form of medication...


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

who would have thought, Prozac for animals!


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

There are relaxing supplements for horses. Has anyone had experience with these?


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

sharon1927 said:


> He's a very kind and sweet horse and has lovely gaits, but training has been pretty frustrating at times because of his fear issues. *When he's afraid of something, he tenses up, grinds his teeth, sweats profusely, and trembles. He's not a stubborn horse, and he's not a lazy horse. He is truly afraid and has no confidence and when he's afraid of something, it's like he's having a panic attack and nothing I do registers.* I try to just stay calm and assertive (without being aggressive) to show him he can trust me as his leader, which usually works with most horses but not with this guy. What's worse, every ride feels like I am starting all over again with this horse. He doesn't seem to retain much desensitizing from one training session to the next. I've trained several other OTTB's and I've found them to be very quick learners, usually quite curious, and very eager to please. But this gelding has me stumped because he is so drastically different.


Sorry missed that. According to what I have learned recently a horse that is truly afraid will actually tremble and shake. Perhaps a calming supplement would help him as others have mentioned. And avoiding alfalfa, grain, high energy stuff that can make him worse.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Short answer? Yes.

Develop the relationship by setting clear boundaries, not making mistakes a big deal, and providing a confident example.

Much easier than it actually is, retraining a horse's mind takes a lot of work and can be exhausting but the outcome is worth it.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Not easy but possible!

Horses like this need plenty of work, riding around 24 acres is nothing like enough. They need taking out and working at the trot and canter for a good couple of hours. 

Ignore the spooking, just don't let them whip around and keep it forward all the time. 

Do all sorts of things around him and if he reacts, keep doing it until he stops reacting the reward is the release of the pressure. 

I had a Welsh pony that was on its way to the knackers as it was so spooky it was unsafe for a child.
First thing I did was get it in a large pen, I tied polythene bags to its mane and tail, empty tin cans with plastic lids and a few pebbles in them so they rattled. Sacks and all sorts tied around the pen.
I don't think he moved for 24 hours, not even a blink! Gradually he accepted and I took him with me everywhere. He was in tow when I emptied the wheelbarrows, tidied the muck heap, led out from the ATV when I went to feed the other horses, alongside when I went the chickens, dug the garden - which involved the chickens and ducks around his legs as they looked for worms I dug up. 

When the tractors came to remove the muck heap he was tied right alongside the heap. He was ponied out deform the big horses. It took about three months before it was practically impossible to get him to spook.
When his owners came to see him he was being ridden. The girl I had riding him could do all exercises in him and could even frog leap onto him from he behind. 

He went back to the owner whose daughter showed him. At one major show in the First Ridden class. There was a fancy dress for tractors in an adjoining arena. One tractor was dressed as a swan complete with flapping wings and its head going up and down. 
All of the ponies took off when they saw this monster except pony who just trotted on around as if it was perfectly normal. 

He won the class and many others. He was sold for mega money and did the serious show circuit for many years.


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## Boo Walker (Jul 25, 2012)

Yes, it takes time- lots of time. You have to learn where his stress limits begin, then adjust his training. The key is to know when to push and when to back off before the stress begins. End each session repeating things he does well and only throw one new thing at him at a time. Be flexible with your schedule; you may want to introduce some leg yields but if he spooks at a certain spot in the arena- you need to choose which one to tackle that day. As he conquers each fear or new idea without getting overly stressed he will gain confidence. In a year you will notice he's more willing to walk forward and investigate something rather than over-reacting. I personally think confidence is one of the most important things we can teach a horse. The result is a happier rider and a safer horse.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I started my white-eyed scared horse at liberty which meant he could leave my presence at any time. Most of what I did was keep him moving until he wanted to face me. If he reacted with say a hand movement, I did it many times until he dropped his hip ie do it til they're bored. If he walked off, I'd follow him and keep him moving at the walk, controlling his direction. It wasn't long before he decided he'd rather stay with me. He was with me by choice, beginning to see me as alpha. This is what horses need, confidence in the human.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

I had a nice horse that was timid and very spooky about things and yes he did get over it in time ( a lot of time) and steady work. In fact in later life he was the best most dependable riding horse but it took a lot of work to get there. I never let him spook and not eventually do what I wanted him to do even if it took a lot of time. If he spooked at something we stayed there until he went past the spooky thing. He would spook at something that wasn't there today but was yesterday.
I also had a younger colt that I started and he was just the opposite, afraid of nothing and would go anywhere for you with hardly any schooling, I was riding him around the farm about the third time I was on him. 
Both horses were raised the same and handled exactly the same, I was their only handler so it had to be their individual temperaments.


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

I'm paying close attention to this thread, as Diva is finished with her month of training and I will now be responsible for making sure she is properly worked. She is a little bit tense and I plan to start her on a calming supplement when I have her close enough to me that I can visit her daily. She's only eight, so I'm hoping that with dedication and steady work I can have her much more relaxed in a year or so. I'm loving the ideas in this thread.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

One way to speed up the process is to teach the horse to lower it's head, the lower the better but it's eyes must be lower than yours. You can incorporate a signal to get her to lower from the saddle. Use a knotted halter to teach her to lower but you must hold the lead with thumb and forefinger only and immediately release if you get only a slight movement. Then try again. It may take many repetitions but she'll start dropping lower and lower. Bend over as you encourage her to touch the ground, or almost. Stand up straight. She may want to come up with you but encourage her to stay down until you give a tug to bring her head up. The low head encourages the endorphins which relax the horse. Imagine how much they get when grazing - life is good. Practice this whenever you work with her.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I do not believe you can change a horses core personality and traits.

HOWEVER, I do believe you can train for the horse to respond to you in the fearful situations you find yourself in. For me, every colt from the very beginning is expect to "check in" before he "checks out". (Credit to Chris Cox) 

What I mean by that is even if the horse is quite actually afraid for his life, sees the end is near, thinks it's all over for him and is shaking terrified - He is still not allowed to act out in any negative way when I am handling him. He is still expected to trust me, and move forward with my commands - If he does not, there will be consequences.

I understand how frustrating this can be. This horse sounds a lot like my boyfriends most recent adventure, an unstarted mare who had lived all of her life for the first four years with no human contact. She is naturally afraid, naturally forgetful, and naturally, for lack of a better term, explosive. 

And naturally, who gets to ride the thing? Certainly not the boyfriend who clearly saw he was in over his head after the first couple rides. So, here I am, with a big black time bomb between my legs for more than a year and a half now. Her name is Zoey. Zoey has lived at the same barn now since March of last year. Zoey has seen everything in the barn repeatedly every day during this time. She similarly is mortified of things like jump standards, raked up ground, water spots, blankets, the crossties, saddles on the rail, birds in the lower pastures, trees moving outside the arena, another horse in its stall, the ponies, barrels, poles...You get the idea.

However, Zoey knows that she is still expected to perform regardless of her fears. Every time she spooks I immediately put her into more work. For example, if she was to spook at a jump standard, I would spend a lot of time right next to that standard trotting figure eights, disengaging her hips, doing counter arc circles, basically anything that gets her feet moving quickly and redirects her energy. I use my inside leg to really bend her ribcage towards the scary thing, so she has to get close to it without facing it head on. I make her go past it again and again, until I feel she has grasped the concept, and then I allow her to stop ONLY directly beside whatever has frightened her. She gets her oxygen when she faces her fears - When she's being a dink, she gets worked. 

A lot of people tell me that they "Can't make their horse get close enough to the object to face it." Which just tells me, quite frankly, you aren't training hard enough. My early days with a frightened horse are not pretty. It's a lot of sweat and dirt, a lot of long sessions, a lot of over and undering, kicking, reinforcing my leg with my spur, and just flat out not being very nice. I'm not here to coddle the animal, and while it seems harsh to push a horse who is afraid - If you do it well enough, and properly redirect the energy and the horses mind they WILL begin to respect you more than they fear the object. And when they choose to be sensible and think instead of reacting in fear? No more work. They get to relax and be praised. They learn that if they stand up and face what they are afraid of, they will be rewarded.

I have had great success with this mindset. It is not easy and not everyone can get it from the horse, but it does work for those who can. I wish you good luck.


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## sharon1927 (Aug 17, 2015)

horseluvr2524 said:


> Sorry missed that. According to what I have learned recently a horse that is truly afraid will actually tremble and shake. Perhaps a calming supplement would help him as others have mentioned. And avoiding alfalfa, grain, high energy stuff that can make him worse.


Yes, I believe he is truly afraid because he acts fearful even during turnout. Just to give you an example, when he was still a racehorse he would come to my farm from December through March during the off-season, and he would get turned out every day with three other geldings. He got along with all of them just fine, but he was TERRIFIED of the 100 gallon Rubbermaid water tank that is in the pasture. He would not get within 10 feet of that thing! He would approach it and then lower his head and snort at it repeatedly. I assumed that seeing his three turnout buddies walk up to the tank and drink out of it would kind of show him not to be scared of it, but nope. He would have rather died of thirst than walk up to that tank. He would wait until he was brought in the barn at night to drink out of his water bucket in his stall. We went through two winters like that. When we finally retired him from racing, I thought, "This is ridiculous - he's going to be on pasture 24/7....he HAS to learn to drink out of this water tank!" It took quite a while and a lot of desensitizing on my part but he did eventually get over that fear. 

That's just one example. There are many, many other things that truly scare him and bring on the sweats, trembling, and teeth grinding.

I have him on SmartCalm Ultra pellets right now but only half the dosage recommended by SmartPak. When he first came off the track I had him on the full recommended dosage, but after a while he seemed so out of it and lethargic that I decided to cut the dosage in half. I think I have to go back to the full dosage again. 

To answer another poster's question about calming supplements, I've had great success with the SmartCalm Ultra in the past with several other OTTB's during their transition from racehorse to riding horse. But in all those cases, I was able to wean the horse off the supplement after a while. I'm kind of disappointed that it's been 18 months and this gelding still needs the supplement. :???:


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## sharon1927 (Aug 17, 2015)

Boo Walker said:


> Yes, it takes time- lots of time. You have to learn where his stress limits begin, then adjust his training. The key is to know when to push and when to back off before the stress begins. End each session repeating things he does well and only throw one new thing at him at a time. Be flexible with your schedule; you may want to introduce some leg yields but if he spooks at a certain spot in the arena- you need to choose which one to tackle that day. As he conquers each fear or new idea without getting overly stressed he will gain confidence. In a year you will notice he's more willing to walk forward and investigate something rather than over-reacting. I personally think confidence is one of the most important things we can teach a horse. The result is a happier rider and a safer horse.


Thanks Boo Walker. You put things in perspective for me. When I think back to July 2014 when he first came off the track, he didn't know how to do anything other than run fast. He didn't know how to stand in the cross ties, or lunge, or stand still for mounting, etc. When I think of what he *does* do well now, all as a result of patient training, I realize that I really *have* come a long way with him. I think I just get frustrated because he is so talented that I think to myself, "Wow...imagine how far along in his training he would be if he _wasn't_ so frightened of anything and everything."


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Then perhaps it is something that he will have to be pushed through. Ride him as often as possible. If there are long breaks between riding a lot of the work will be undone. I think SorrelHorse gave you some great examples there. Expect them to be fearful and they will remain fearful. I've seen a lot of arabian owners, for example, who don't push their horses through their fear, and the animal remains afraid of the same thing, every day, all the time. My horse had a "horse phobia" and was intensely afraid of strange horses. I took her to a crowded warm up arena every week and worked her butt off until she no longer tried to bite or kick or charge another horse. It was a lot of work, a lot of feeling like I'm being mean, but in the long run it is much kinder to the animal. Good luck!


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## sharon1927 (Aug 17, 2015)

SorrelHorse said:


> I understand how frustrating this can be. This horse sounds a lot like my boyfriends most recent adventure, an unstarted mare who had lived all of her life for the first four years with no human contact. She is naturally afraid, naturally forgetful, and naturally, for lack of a better term, explosive.
> 
> And naturally, who gets to ride the thing? Certainly not the boyfriend who clearly saw he was in over his head after the first couple rides. So, here I am, with a big black time bomb between my legs for more than a year and a half now. Her name is Zoey. Zoey has lived at the same barn now since March of last year. Zoey has seen everything in the barn repeatedly every day during this time. She similarly is mortified of things like jump standards, raked up ground, water spots, blankets, the crossties, saddles on the rail, birds in the lower pastures, trees moving outside the arena, another horse in its stall, the ponies, barrels, poles...You get the idea.
> 
> ...


First off, thank you so much for the laugh! Obviously you COMPLETELY understand what I'm going through. :rofl: And thank you for describing your early days of training a frightened horse. It makes me feel better about some of my training sessions. I am a competitive dressage rider and I also do some jumping (but that's just for fun), and when I'm on my 15 year old Dutch Warmblood I receive a lot of nice compliments about being "such an elegant rider". But I gotta tell ya, when I'm training the OTTB who is the subject of this post, there ain't NOTHIN' elegant about it. LOL I do what I have to do to get the job done. 

I like Chris Cox but I'm more familiar with Clinton Anderson's methods. But they're very similar - make the wrong thing difficult and the right thing easy. However, I did notice one major difference in dealing with scary objects: Clinton Anderson teaches his students to work the horse away from the scary object - and I mean really work him...really make him hustle - and then when he's really wanting his air, let him rest near the scary object. That way the horse learns to think of the scary thing as actually being a good thing because he gets to rest there and catch his breath. That method does work with my gelding but when I come back the next day, it's like the training session never happened at all. My guy is completely terrified of the same scary object again and I have to repeat the whole process. But thanks - at least I feel now that increasing his confidence is *possible*, it's just going to take longer than with most other horses.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

sharon1927 said:


> First off, thank you so much for the laugh! Obviously you COMPLETELY understand what I'm going through. :rofl: And thank you for describing your early days of training a frightened horse. It makes me feel better about some of my training sessions. I am a competitive dressage rider and I also do some jumping (but that's just for fun), and when I'm on my 15 year old Dutch Warmblood I receive a lot of nice compliments about being "such an elegant rider". But I gotta tell ya, when I'm training the OTTB who is the subject of this post, there ain't NOTHIN' elegant about it. LOL I do what I have to do to get the job done.
> 
> I like Chris Cox but I'm more familiar with Clinton Anderson's methods. But they're very similar - make the wrong thing difficult and the right thing easy. However, I did notice one major difference in dealing with scary objects: Clinton Anderson teaches his students to work the horse away from the scary object - and I mean really work him...really make him hustle - and then when he's really wanting his air, let him rest near the scary object. That way the horse learns to think of the scary thing as actually being a good thing because he gets to rest there and catch his breath. That method does work with my gelding but when I come back the next day, it's like the training session never happened at all. My guy is completely terrified of the same scary object again and I have to repeat the whole process. But thanks - at least I feel now that increasing his confidence is *possible*, it's just going to take longer than with most other horses.


I do use a lot of the stuff Clinton teaches, I had it modified a little bit and I'm sure I will continue to adjust it as I grow into more horses, but it is an excellent starting point for getting horses responsive and broke. Plus he's a really funny guy, which I love.


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## LittleBayMare (Jun 2, 2014)

:think: This almost sounds like my gelding when he's off his magnesium. If he has a magnesium deficiency, that could be causing the spookiness. My gelding gets quite neurotic when he's "off his meds", but when he gets his supplement he is a gentle puppy dog that can be handled by timid children. I use a 100% magnesium supplement MagOx. It's technically for cattle, but it doesn't matter. It's $20 for a 50# bag and I feed a teaspoon morning and evening. I'm told it works better cut 9 - 1 with salt. My gelding is a picky eater though so I have to gradually sneak a little more salt in every feeding. I'm at about 4 - 1 right now. A just over a week I am seeing dramatic improvements. Here is a link to a thread I posted with some articles about magnesium deficiency. 

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-health/magnesium-deficiency-647585/

It is very hard to overdose on magnesium and the deficiency is so common (and cheap to treat) that I would give it a try. It can't hurt. 

Edit: Not saying it is just mineral related, there is probably training issues at hand too. But, if it is magnesium, curing that could make fixing the rest a thousand times easier.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

When you take your horse out, watch his ears. Active ears means his mind is working overtime. That is the time to get his feet moving. Don't wait to see if he'll spook. Lunge him if you have room, if not, practice backing up, lateral movement, shoulder, haunches, more backing up, halting. Then continue one. Be consistent and he'll start figuring out he can either be jumpy or work. Since horses have an innate need to conserve energy, he'll chose to quit goofing around NO petting or talking to him. If your timing is out you could be rewarding bad behavior.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Foxhunter said:


> Not easy but possible!
> 
> Horses like this need plenty of work, riding around 24 acres is nothing like enough. They need taking out and working at the trot and canter for a good couple of hours.
> 
> ...


 My approach is similar to this ^^^


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

sharon1927 said:


> My 8 year old OTTB gelding has been off the track for about 18 months. My husband actually owned him when he was racing so we've known the horse for about three years now. He was always a "nervous Nellie" and was always very fearful of just about everything (leaves, cats, barrels, ground poles, water tank, etc.). I thought that would change when he retired from racing, but as I said, he's been off the track for 18 months now and he's not much braver than the day he retired.
> 
> I tried all the usual things first - giving him a few months of downtime when he retired to just "be a horse" and enjoy plenty of turnout with buddies; getting him off sweet feed and onto a pelleted feed; extensive groundwork and desensitizing to a variety of objects; getting him out of the round pen and out on trails rides all over our 24 acres; even calming supplements.
> 
> ...


In one word.yes! BUT, that kind of horse needs a very confident rider, who stays relaxed
De sensitizing to a whole bunch of objects really doesn't do much, as you are still putting the horse in the position of needing to assess if that object is okay
What you want, is that conditioned response, where the horse both trusts and respects your leadership, thus trusts your judgement, and then when you indicate something is okay, that horse trusts your leadership
These types of horses do not do well, with a rider that tenses, seeing objects he thinks the horse might be afraid of. THat horse then just feels his 'leader tense, not knowing it is due to the reaction of the him the horse, that he fears, just that his leader is also tense, so that object must eb something to spook, bolt from
If you yourself lack this confidence, best thing you can do is send the horse out to a horseman, not for any formal training, but just to ride out, doing a job, like riding a grazing lease, g cattle , ect


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## sharon1927 (Aug 17, 2015)

horseluvr2524 said:


> Then perhaps it is something that he will have to be pushed through. Ride him as often as possible. If there are long breaks between riding a lot of the work will be undone. I think SorrelHorse gave you some great examples there. Expect them to be fearful and they will remain fearful. I've seen a lot of arabian owners, for example, who don't push their horses through their fear, and the animal remains afraid of the same thing, every day, all the time. My horse had a "horse phobia" and was intensely afraid of strange horses. I took her to a crowded warm up arena every week and worked her butt off until she no longer tried to bite or kick or charge another horse. It was a lot of work, a lot of feeling like I'm being mean, but in the long run it is much kinder to the animal. Good luck!


Yep, I do ride him frequently and on a regular schedule. I try to do 4 or 5 sessions in a row - for example, riding him Sunday through Thursday and then giving him a day off (two at the most), and then I start another cycle of 4 or 5 days of riding in a row. Good point about keeping calm and not expecting the horse to be fearful. I may be unconsciously tensing up when he repeatedly spooks at something. I will definitely be more mindful of that!


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

Has this horse been checked by a Vet ? Is there an eye issue developing ? I had a horse become a a freak a zoid because he got cataracts and lost vision in one eye. He dance, jig, and tremble even with another horse along side when out , but okay in an arena. I have another horse that is a follower, has no courage to be first, no courage to be out alone.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Riding daily may not be what he needs, but a long trail ride of at least 3 hrs. Work him until he's puffing and sweating a bit. Wet saddle blankets usually take the stupid out of a horse.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Just daily rides do not really fix a horse like this
He needs to go somewhere , that he puts in full 8 hour days, just getting a job done. That can be checking cattle on a grazing lease, or some other job, where a horse is still used to get a job done, versus just some recreational riding
I sold a young horse that was very reactive/spooky to a friend, who took a chance on him, and had the connection to just send him to a rancher to ride all winter.
That rancher used to rodeo ride broncs, so was a very confident rider, yet had good hands, and was also developing an interest in working cowhorses. He just rode that horse all winter, checking cattle, bringing them in, ect.
In the spring, that horse was a new horse, ready to start some formal western pl training, and then showed the ability his breeding promised


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## sharon1927 (Aug 17, 2015)

stevenson said:


> Has this horse been checked by a Vet ? Is there an eye issue developing ? I had a horse become a a freak a zoid because he got cataracts and lost vision in one eye. He dance, jig, and tremble even with another horse along side when out , but okay in an arena. I have another horse that is a follower, has no courage to be first, no courage to be out alone.


He was checked by a vet just over a year ago. She checked his teeth and said they were really bad. So he had his teeth done, sheath cleaned, physical exam - the usual annual checkup stuff. This horse and our other three horses have a vet appointment coming up in a couple weeks to have their teeth done. When the vet is out to do that, I am going to have her check this guy's eyes again. I've been wondering the same thing about his vision. But it's so hard with horses because a menace test will only tell if they can or can't see out of each eye - it doesn't really tell you if the horse can see _well_ out of both eyes. But I'm definitely going to have the vet check him out thoroughly.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

Just another story about my timid gelding. 
I was trotting along the back of the farm and this horse was very timid and could spook at things, I could see some bushes along the fence line and I thought to myself, I better slow down in case he spooks, then I thought What the heck, he won't unseat me so what do I care if he spooks or not and I just pushed him forward and ignored the bushes and he trotted right by. I do think that he felt I was confident so he went ahead willingly.
It took some time and I did a lot with this horse, lots of showing, trail riding and he did become a really good riding horse, safe enough to let less experienced riders ride him with no trouble.
The more you do with your horse the better he will be if he feels he can trust you.


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## sharon1927 (Aug 17, 2015)

Smilie said:


> Just daily rides do not really fix a horse like this
> He needs to go somewhere , that he puts in full 8 hour days, just getting a job done. That can be checking cattle on a grazing lease, or some other job, where a horse is still used to get a job done


Thanks Smilie and Saddlebag. I think you're both onto something here. My gelding has a seemingly inexhaustible amount of energy, so I usually have to spend at least an hour in the saddle before he gets his excess energy out and calms down enough to start seriously working with him. He wasn't too bad when he was on my farm and we were trotting or cantering through the fields for long rides and he'd come back to the barn with soaking wet saddle pads. But at the beginning of December I moved all four of my horses to a boarding stable that has an indoor arena so I can continue working with them and riding all winter. That's when things with this gelding got particularly bad and he became almost unrideable. He's afraid of the walls of the indoor arena, the mirrors that are on a couple of the walls, the windows at the south end, etc. I don't have the luxury of trotting through endless fields anymore because now we're in a much smaller, confined area. 

You gave me an idea though...there is a quarter horse trainer about ten minutes from my farm that I sent my very first OTTB to several years back because I didn't feel I was experienced enough to tackle the retraining by myself. Eight days after arriving at the trainer's place, my mare was trotting around in a western saddle with her ears level with her withers, looking like a completely broke pleasure horse. It's an extremely busy training facility with lots of commotion, tons of horses, young kids everywhere, group lessons going on all the time, and dogs running around - you get the picture. Although these things probably gave my mare a heart attack for the first few days, I realize now that all those scary things probably helped her to calm down pretty quickly. My mare was at that facility for a while and then I brought her home to begin working on her dressage training myself. She would spook occasionally but for the most part she was a joy to work with. 

Thank you for your advice! I just reached out to the quarter horse trainer and asked if she's got any room for my guy for a couple of months. He doesn't necessarily need "training" in the sense that I want him to become a western pleasure horse. However, five days a week of intense work with her in a chaotic environment just might do the trick. Of course, I will have my vet examine his eyes, teeth, back, etc. to rule out any physical problems before I send him there. 

Thanks everybody!


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## Amateur (Feb 21, 2015)

I think it is a bit of both. Yes a horse like this needs a confident, good rider-but there will be times when you are distracted and/or genuinely scared. With good training and wet blankets, this horse may come far enough to not come unglued.
Now that I am horse hunting for a gaited horse again, I am trying to find a horse that is forward ,but calm and comfortable by itself. It makes the job easier and more fun-instead of always being on super alert. I have ridden horses like that-that make beginners look like pros and I want one of those!

With enough miles/training/rider improvement, most horses can become somewhat decent trail mounts. But for those of us who have to work for a living and not have the luxury of riding 100s of horses/colts, I think a solid horse born with a good temperament and has had good training really makes life happier!


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