# Do horses want to be ridden?



## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Not ridden, but we had a pony who lived to work in the harness. He was a ****** to catch, for years, and we decided to put him to work hauling logs. Within a week, when he was called he would prance over and get all pumped up and line himself up with the harness. He could be hooked onto a log, and let go to go to the yard by himself with no driver, it was a breeze. Just hook, let go, have another person wait in the yard, unhook, and let him go back. He also wanted only huge logs. Logs that we didn't think he could pull. We'd put a small log on him to give him a break, he'd go ten feet, stop and look back at us like "what in the world are you doing?" until we hooked a big log on him. He lived to work. And anyone who ever said it was cruel or wrong, only had to watch that pony work by himself and scratch their head in confusion. 

When he was loose after he would prance and dance around the other horses, almost mocking them. :lol:


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## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

I don't necessarily have horses that beg to be ridden ... although Dreams and Thunder are always eager to work. They will both come running when they see my car, if they are loose, and will both nip and shove each other out of the way to be first in line, despite me never having given them treats or any other form of bribery. Usually, when I go to grab them out of the arena it means we're going to go to work, so I assume if they didn't want to work they would try to evade me. Dreams usually has a very relaxed and pleasant expression while I'm riding, and is eager to try new things under saddle. 

Since horses are big enough and smart enough to make their wishes known in no uncertain terms, I can only assume that Dreams enjoys being ridden and worked every day I'm there.

-- Kai


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

That's pretty crazy. I don't think that I've ever seen anything that blatant. I don't think that is anthropomorphizing. I'm sure that they have their preferences just like anything else.

I know that my mare likes to go out but I don't think that she cares whether I'm on her back or not.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

On one hand, the practical side of me says that's good training, he's expecting it, he's conditioned that's what is going to happen, he's complying with what he thinks you're going to want.

OTOH: Some part of me says yes, he's ready to get to work! Let's do this! WOO!

I think its probably a little bit of both, tbh. Sarge, our big boy has really bonded to B, the SIL2B. HE LOOKS for him. He may chill with me all day long, but the second he hears that dodge truck B drives? He is all about seeing his 'person' and he will go right to his tie up post and wait, and you can see this eagerness about him. He's ready to go! 

That's uhm... now that he's accepted the fact he's not going to be a field ornament. He's wanted to buck and act like a buddy soured fool the past few months. Fortunately, he's not hard headed like Supes and while he's a low confidence horse, always looking for boogers in bushes, he's not a terrified hot mess like Trigger. He just seems to have attachment problems - latches on to any and every new horse that comes here and acts like an idiot when you ride out without that Buddy Horse. 

THAT is probably why he was at the auction, not because he isn't willing to work, he just LIGHTS UP when we're pushing cows around and wants all up in, but because he has this whole latching on to random horses thing going on. He needs to be ridden daily to keep that from really souring him up... but he does seem to enjoy being ridden and put to work doing something. We're just having to get him past this attachment issue, and its been easier than we thought.


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## Dehda01 (Jul 25, 2013)

I have a few horses who get excited to see me moving the trailer or moving tack around and start pacing at the gate to come in and basically drag me to the trailer to self load. So I think they like the work. 

They definitely are slightly disappointed when I point them towards my arena instead of the trailer though.


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

I think often we humans underestimate what can be achieved with finding exactly the right job for the horse. 

I don’t know anything about his breeding. He’s a grade. Guesses so far are Morgan, Arabian, Quarab, Saddlebred, TWH…hes the black horse in my avatar.

As such, I assumed nothing as to what he would be good at and had to look for it. (we have different horses for different things) I could go for pretty much anything; working cattle, jumping, dressage, trails….I let him pick. His choice was clearly trails, he comes alive and I listened. Didn’t mean we also haven’t done some other things but, his heart is trails.

We'll be out riding for hours and there have been times where he makes it clear he would rather not go home.


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

I'm ashamed to say my mare doesn't like being ridden. When she sees the saddle her whole body sags, her eyes droop, ears flop... (I've checked, no pain involved). I have no idea how to correct that so for now we have a professional relationship: I feed and house her and she gives me 45 minutes of her time begrudgingly :/ She does like jumping. Or at least she picks her self up and does it with what feels like enthusiasm.


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## gingerscout (Jan 18, 2012)

I have always thought my horse loves to be ridden/ have a job, he lights up when he sees the saddle/ headstall/ the trailer to go trail ride.. He has always been the type to throw his head into the headstall. He walks himself to the mounting block.. leans into me, if I'm trying to mount bareback he leans hard into me and dips his hips towards me without being asked. If were standing on the ground saddled and not doing anything after a min he will nudge up next to me and put the saddle into my side then lean into me. When we are out on the trail he always seems eager to keep going and unlike riding at home rarely tries to turn back towards the barn/ trailer


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

@Horsef Cowboy doesn't like to be ridden either. He was "cowboyed" before we got him. Catching him used to be a half hour exercise in frustration. At least now, he will let you catch him. Still prefers not to be ridden I think but, isn't running away in terror upon sight of the halter in your hand. In spite of himself he actually is starting to realize that being with his people isn't such a bad experience and can actually be kind of pleasurable. 

Oliver, as a working stud for the first seven years of his life was a blank slate when we got him so I didn't have undo anything, we could just start from scratch. My daughter's horse Prince Caspian also loves (trail) riding, he too was a blank slate when we got him. Neither of these two seems to have ever been treated unfairly or inconsistently in their past lives. I think that makes a difference however slight. JMO. 

I'd take that flicker of enthusiasm your mare shows and work from there! Slow and steady.


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## LlamaPacker (Aug 29, 2016)

One of my little molly mules loves to work, comes up to put her head right in the halter, attitude is "take me, take me!" Agitated if just standing tied or paces in the dry corral, but great while being packed and loaded, loves heading up the trail. 

She's a Norwegian Fjord mule (fjule), so maybe that's where she got her work ethic. Dun colored with beautiful big brown eyes and a curious expression. 20 years old, so said that she may outlive me (hope not!) 

Always a bit of trouble with back feet trimming, so is lucky that I love her personality, am willing to keep working with her and have a young farrier with lots of patience and experience with donkeys.

Wish she could be trained for riding, but experienced mule people say probably not good to expect it, now that she's bucked me off and already set in her ways. Like with poster "bsms", maybe she'll be my life-long project.


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## seabiscuit91 (Mar 30, 2017)

That is so cool!

I've never had anything that blatant, but when we're heading away from property, away from all his horsey friends, he's ears perked, active walk, so I definitely *think he is enjoying it. Also he never rushes on the way home, and once he voluntarily went a long way, walked back past home as if to say 'no lets keep going' who knows. 
He definitely isn't upset by going up at least!


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

Horses don't need to be ridden, but they depend on us to have some fun and get off the ranch, literally. That's the bargain between our species, though, so there is nothing wrong with it. People like you, who care about that the horse has a good time with whatever activity it has been recruited into, are good news for horses. Not every horse is as lucky!

I'm not sure my horse _asks_ to be ridden, but when I put on the bridle, her ears are at my shoulders' height, whereas I saw her giraffing with other people. She has a big pasture where she can stretch her legs without a rider, but I like to think that she likes the enrichment and excitement of going on the trail. At the very least I can be pretty sure it's not making her nervous.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

My sorrel horse meets me at the gate and sticks his head in the halter. He loves going to work.
Stilts used to be that way, now it depends on the time of day since hes getting older. If it's before daylight he knows it's a work day and he just assume stay home. Later in the morning or the afternoon if I catch him he knows it's not going to be a long day he'll meet me at the gate enthusiastically.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

COWCHICK77 said:


> My sorrel horse meets me at the gate and sticks his head in the halter. He loves going to work.
> Stilts used to be that way, now it depends on the time of day since hes getting older. If it's before daylight he knows it's a work day and he just assume stay home. Later in the morning or the afternoon if I catch him he knows it's not going to be a long day he'll meet me at the gate enthusiastically.


My old arthritis girl is like that, she isn't worked but we still do groundwork. I have two different halters for her: one for trimming her feet, as she's a little witch and needs some good control, and one for groundwork. She would much rather put her head in the groundwork halter than the trimming halter, and gives me an awful evil face when I bring that halter out.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

I guess some like it..but the clearest I have seen is when I had the Golden Horse, she was easy to catch, stood to be tacked up, was good under saddle...BUT when I got a harness for her she was really different, alert and eager to work, she loved to pull.


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## Chasin Ponies (Dec 25, 2013)

Dehda01 said:


> I have a few horses who get excited to see me moving the trailer or moving tack around and start pacing at the gate to come in and basically drag me to the trailer to self load. So I think they like the work.
> 
> They definitely are slightly disappointed when I point them towards my arena instead of the trailer though.


Yeah, I have one like this and he will load himself on any empty trailer he sees! Never have run across another one like him though. I've come to believe that it's not that he want to be ridden but rather he wants to go places and see things. He's the smartest horse I've ever met (scary smart!) and easily bored and I think that makes him the biggest troublemaker in the barn!


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## george the mule (Dec 7, 2014)

Mine love attention, and they are rather spoiled; they know going out equals Dad's undivided attention and a chance for TREATS. ("Oh, Yea; Treats!!! Choose _me_!!!")
George at least, is very social, and likes to visit with the neighborhood horses. I have tacked him up, gotten on, and then just left the next part up to him. He walks right thru the gate, and then down the street to the neighbors place. He will then stop right outside of their pasture and nibble on "the greener grass" that their animals can't get to ("HaHa, I'm eating _your_ grass!"). When I get bored and ask him to move, he will walk on down the road to the next horse pasture and repeat the performance. What a butthead ;-) Yea, I'd say he's enjoying himself.
My big horse sneers at Georgies childish antics, and patiently waits for his daddy to cue him. Then he more or less politely asks to go and visit the neighbors. If I let him, he does the same "greener grass" thing, but with dignity as befits his Thoroughbred status


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

When I had Rimmey in the 60 acre field here with Hondo and was packing salt with him, one day I decided to saddle him up (with Hondo's saddle), lead him around to see how he acted and maybe ride him a little in the field. As I led Rimmey out the gate of the yard/pen into the field, Hondo went absolutely beserk galloping circles around us, bucking, and all stuff he never does. I didn't know for certain what to make of it and still don't for sure, but I turned around, went back and took HIS saddle off Rimmey.


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## Devo (Sep 24, 2017)

When I was taking jumping lessons, on my part Arab/Thoroughbred, I wasn't doing it right so my teacher loaned me her horse and she sat on mine by the jump to watch. 
After I jumped and came back over she told me my horse tried to come with me, as she held him in place, he trotted and then did s little jump at the same time I did. 
I think we don't understand or even know how much our horses love us. 
It is an awesome thing to be loved by our horses. They are as close to us as we are to them. 
With that said, they are big, powerful animals and must respect us too.


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

Yesterday, DH and I went riding (per Oliver’s request LOL). We spent about an hour and a half out in the bush going nowhere in particular, then, just to reinforce the fact that even though we are passing “home”, unless we say that is where we are going, they still need to listen to us, we kept going and rode down to the corner minimart gas station to get some drinks.

DH held the horses while I went into the store. I could hear Oliver calling to me from inside the store. DH said he had tried to follow me in. Yep. The connections between horse and rider are much more complex and intertwined than I think we often grasp.


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## Devo (Sep 24, 2017)

What an interesting topic. 
I never thought my horses liked to be ridden. Maybe Sharr did, he didn't run from me when I walked in with a halter. 
And except for him, the others had been worked hard. With severe training. Ex-race horse. Ex-cowboy horse. Although many cowboy horses are treated well and love their work. In fact I always thought they enjoyed their work more than jumpers or dressage horses.


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## KLJcowgirl (Oct 13, 2015)

I wouldn't say my mini begs to be harnessed up, but I know she enjoys it as she becomes a TOTALLY different horse once she's tacked up. 

I love her to death, and I do make her behave, but she's a bit of a pill in hand sometimes and especially when she's tied. When tied she's constantly pawing (it's gotten quite a bit better since I got her), yanking on the lead rope, trying to reach for any tiny morsel of something she can eat, fidgeting back and forth, and looking every which way. The second I bring out the harness bag she perks up. The saddle goes on her back and she relaxes and even cocks one of her hind feet. She stands still the entire time I'm harnessing her. 

She also stands very well loose while in harness. I take her out of the pasture and park her while I go get her cart (I often forget to have it ready before I tack her... oops). She'll stand a few feet away from me, waiting patiently. She would never do that in just a halter. 

She watches me the entire time I'm hooking her to the cart with perked ears, almost to say "Hurry up I'm ready to go!"

I've even left her standing with the cart while I ran back to the barn for something I forgot, and when I come back she's still in the same place, hasn't reached for any grass, ears perked up and looking for me.

I've just found it interesting with her, as my QH is pretty indifferent. It's kind of fun to be able to tell she enjoys her job.


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

Devo said:


> What an interesting topic.
> I never thought my horses liked to be ridden. Maybe Sharr did, he didn't run from me when I walked in with a halter.
> And except for him, the others had been worked hard. With severe training. Ex-race horse. Ex-cowboy horse.* Although many cowboy horses are treated well and love their work*. In fact I always thought they enjoyed their work more than jumpers or dressage horses.



@Devo, I agree with you on the above. 

Many cowboys do love their horses (few will admit it) and treat them like kings/queens. They are after all, how they earn a living. Some though, do not, and see a horse as a disposable, replicable commodity not unlike a tractor that has become more trouble than it is worth. Unfortunately, that is just the reality of the situation. 

The term I used, “Cowboyed” is not anything against cowboys specifically. I have many friends who are still earning their livings as one that treat and train their horses very well. 

"Cowboyed", at least the way we use it here in Texas, is a term referring to the way horses used to be broken in the "wild west" roughly and without consideration to the long term effects on the horse, as long as the end result was quickly accomplished and resulted in an animal good for using. 

Some people in these parts use the term “broke” in that same capacity referring to those horses that have that dead, listless look in their eyes like all of their spirit has been taken from them. So someone here saying a horse is "broke" or "dead broke" is sometimes not a good thing depending on what they mean when they say it.


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## Kaiit (Mar 28, 2017)

I've loved reading these stories! I'd never have expected a horse to ask to be ridden a few years ago, when I started up riding again. This topic seems to crop up a lot in my friend circles, not least because I know so many animal-welfare pushers and vegans. I can't even begin to explain the connection you end up developing with your horse, though. Clearly, many love the interaction, the exercise and the ability it brings them to explore.

I'd say my horse tolerates riding in a school, but he lives to run and loves a hack. When I started with him, he was very unenthused about being ridden. Fast forward to getting him back into regular hacking and he's a totally different horse. He'll reach into the head collar and bridle and stands without a fuss but perks up when it's time to go. Out over farmland, I don't even need to use my legs, I ask him if he'd "like to do a little canter," which is the sentance he's been waiting for. 

The new pony is even more obvious. Maybe not as obvious as lining himself up besides a saddle but I think his general behaviour all points towards enjoying riding. I was told his only vice was that he was difficult to catch - he also puts his face into a headcollar, in fact, he walks into it from wherever he is in the field. The first time my sister tacked him up after his settling in period, he was full of energy and itching to go. He went from being a compliant but reluctant pony in the school he came from, to approaching _us_ to take him into the stable for grooming and tacking up. This is all my sister's good work, I might add!


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

Reiningcatsanddogs said:


> Yesterday, DH and I went riding (per Oliver’s request LOL). We spent about an hour and a half out in the bush going nowhere in particular, then, just to reinforce the fact that even though we are passing “home”, unless we say that is where we are going, they still need to listen to us, we kept going and *rode down to the corner minimart gas station to get some drinks.
> *
> DH held the horses while I went into the store. I could hear Oliver calling to me from inside the store. DH said he had tried to follow me in. Yep. The connections between horse and rider are much more complex and intertwined than I think we often grasp.
> 
> ...


Hahah. We do this. It's been a while because the drive-thru convenience store a mile or so away from us closed, but that's how we used to end every ride - we'd go to the 'store', get a drink and some beef jerky, sit around on our horses and hang out until everyone was settled, then if they hurried back leaving out, we'd take the next road to the left, NOT the road home, and go allllll the way to the end and turn and come back.

And no, we never took them inside, despite it being a drive thru, open air sort of thing. We didn't want to risk them getting silly inside, slipping on the concrete floor, or pooping on it etc... and still the one that was left without a rider, while he or she went in to get our stuff, would always try to follow inside.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

Devo said:


> What an interesting topic.
> I never thought my horses liked to be ridden. Maybe Sharr did, he didn't run from me when I walked in with a halter.
> And except for him, the others had been worked hard. With severe training. Ex-race horse. Ex-cowboy horse. *Although many cowboy horses are treated well and love their work*. In fact I always thought they enjoyed their work more than jumpers or dressage horses.


I'm of the mind that many do enjoy their 'job'. We have a TB cross (we think that's what he is) and every time my husband, son, and our SIL2B start moving heifers around by getting them in the lot, then pushing them into the trailer, Sarge just loses his mind. He wants IN ON IT. LET ME AT EM! SOMEONE SADDLE ME UP PLEASEEEE! He jogs up and down the fence, eyes bright, ears up, kicks up dust, runs in HUGE arcs back and forth.... he wants all up in it. Thing is, when we have them up close to the house, we don't NEED the horses. The lot is our 'trap' and its set up so its easy to push them into the trailer out the east gate.

Regarding the comment that cowboys often love their horses, far more than they'd ever admit, that is spot on.

They ACT like they give no effs about that animal, but that simply isn't the truth.

Exhibit A: A drunk roper was mouthing off about our friend's roping mare, Grey Momma. Now, Grey Momma isn't that spectacular, and neither is our friend, at roping. But they love it and its fun so they do it. Drunk roper is standing around 'out back' running his mouth about how terrible and ugly Grey Momma is while friend is making his run. Our rodeo company friend overhears, goes over, and tells the drunk guy: You're going to 'pologize to that horse. NOT THE GUY ON HER. THE HORSE. And she has a name... Grey Momma. And you are going to look her in the eyes, address her by her name, and most sincerely 'pologize to her or I'm gonna whip your *&^ right here and now.

Friend gets his run over, drunk guy walks up, looking absurdly scared but also apologetic. Takes the horse's face in his hands... and quite sincerely apologizes for disparaging her so horribly.

Friend is still in the saddle, has NO IDEA what's going on or why, but was later filled in. Its one of the big stories they love tell around the fire pit during our cook out and beer drinking sessions in the fall.

Exhibit B: Rodeo company owner friend has a paint horse, Dollar. Dollar is like the horse on Shanghai Noon... he responds to clicks and verbal commands almost like a trick horse. One of which is a very subtle hand gesture and POOF. The horse will OPEN THE BACK OF THE TRAILER (if its not latched super tight, just pushed shut) and will LOAD HIMSELF. He will also open the barn door when he's ready to go to bed and let himself into his stall. 

Friend talks about this horse like he's nothing but dumb livestock... and yet he wanted, badly, a stock trailer we have. While drinking beer around the fire, he and husband engage in negotiations for this stock trailer. Husband finally says okay. Fine. Trade me Dollar straight across for it.

OH HECK NO! You'd have thought you asked that guy for his first born son. 

He still has Dollar, we still have the stock trailer. Dollar is getting up there in years though, so now he's retired from roping, he's their kids horse now and living the life of Riley.


Moral of the two long stories is: Don't disparage a TRUE cowboy's horse. You may have to 'pologize to the horse. In front of everyone.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

Many years ago, I bought a yearling filly to train because my heart had been broken when my horse I'd raised from a colt was hit by a car and killed. I lavished all my hurt and pain on this filly and spent hours with her. I used to take her for walks quite often, and when it was time to go back, she would balk and refuse to go back into the pasture. I had to yell for my dad to bring some grain to coax her back home. In time, I got smart and carried grain out with me and leave it near the gate so I could get her back in. I used to laugh at her and tell her, "Just you wait! When you are 4 or 5 years old, you'll be eager to go home."

I kept that horse all her life, and as long as she lived, she'd give me a hard time when we got to the gate to go in. She was always eager to ride out longer. I didn't have to coax her in with food, but I always had to push her a bit and she'd balk a bit when she knew she was going home.

One mare I have now hates Hates HATES the trailer. When I trailer her for a ride, she starts to fight me about going back about a mile from the trailer. She'll turn around and head back out the trail unless I keep a strong rein and leg on her. She doesn't love to ride so much as she dreads going in the trailer to go home. Heaven help me if we should get lost. She won't take me back to the trailer!


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

@AtokaGhosthorse…your stories brought up memories of a story of my own.

Ages ago, back when I was getting to be that dating age, a farmer’s wife gave me two excellent and sage pieces of advice. 

1)	Don’t listen to what a man says. Watch what he does.
2)	When it comes to knowing what a cowboy is made of deep down under all that crusty stuff, don’t put too much stock in how he treats general people that he doesn't know from Adam. Watch the way he treats his Momma and the way he treats his horse.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

EXCELLENT advice, reigning.

I also love Waylon Jennig's lyrics (Don't Let your Babies Grow up to be Cowboys):

Them that don't know him won't like him
And them that do sometimes won't know how to take him
He ain't wrong he's just different
But his pride won't let him do things to make you think he's right



I like our cowboy friends... but there's times I don't know how to take them. LOL


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

What about a horse that lives on 600 acres with 20 other horses. Is it possible for a horse under those conditions to look forward to and/or enjoy being ridden on a solo trail ride?


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

Hondo said:


> What about a horse that lives on 600 acres with 20 other horses. Is it possible for a horse under those conditions to look forward to and/or enjoy being ridden on a solo trail ride?


Yes, if the ride provides some enrichment that the horse enjoys but doesn't have available on his pasture. For example, a horse that enjoys the water but doesn't have access to a lake other than through riding with you may well appreciate the opportunity, even if it means lugging your butt through the countryside.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Hondo said:


> What about a horse that lives on 600 acres with 20 other horses. Is it possible for a horse under those conditions to look forward to and/or enjoy being ridden on a solo trail ride?


You bet!
Mine used to be turned out in the cavvy with 40+ other horses on hundreds of acres. If I walked or took the 4Wheeler out rather than gather them a horseback, mine would greet me and allow to be caught. Not all my string that I didn't own would allow it but for the most part the horses I owned and some of of the ranch horses liked to go.

I will edit to add, I feel a lot of that has to do with the work ethic that is intalled in them as well as being treated well. I don't ride my horses if they are sore, I don't run them out of air, on hot days I'll step off when I have time, undo my cinches and lift my saddle off their back. I don't spend all day training on them. Horses appreciate those little things you do for them on long hard days. I think they remember it when you go to catch them again.


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

Hondo has spent the last year in a 60 acre field with 1 to 2 other horses. The eight years prior to that, he spent with 20+ horses on roughly 600 acres with hillsides and a river running through the middle. They actually had access to 28,000 acres, but with the forage available along the river and the ranch house nearby that supplied 6 pounds of pellets night and morning in the winter, they never strayed that far.

At the moment, and for the next couple of months, the entire herd is in with Hondo in the 60 acre field until the lush overgrowth is trimmed down. There is a small creek running through that goes in and out of the stream bed with pools of water in between.

Hondo has always allowed me to halter him where ever when ever. Sometimes he sticks his nose into the halter and sometimes he just stands there. In the winter when the feed is short, he will often head my way when he sees me. I put that to anticipating supplemental feeding. When the grass and a multitude of various plants are available, as in now, he sometimes expresses that he'd just as soon stay in the pasture. Alfalfa which he loves is left half eaten. Oats are about the only food that will wake him up when the pasture is prime, or a treat.

He is always a bit antsy and nervous about leaving for the first 1/2 mile or so but after that it seems, "out of sight, out of mind". He is never in a hurry to get back and likes to stop at bunches of wild mountain grasses.

But I just can't say he seems anxious to go riding. Maybe he has had a harder past. He was only ridden for two years here on the ranch and then not much. Before that, nobody knows.

I actually made a model of his back and hand fitted bars to his back and use a Supracor pad so the saddle should make him happy. I recently learned that the Supracor design is used for the astronauts seating and the F18 also.

He hates bits so he is ridden in a Dr. Cook's which he assists getting it on.

His feet are trimmed well and he wears boots on rides.

He gets lots of TLC and is never ever punished.

But he really never seems anxious to go. And I have had him at times to turn and go stand in the corner of the yard pen with his hinney towards me when I bring out the saddle. Other times he just ignores the saddle and stands there while I tack him up. I never more than ground tie him in the yard pen, or anywhere else usually.

So I just got to thinking.....wondering......most that I've read were barn horses that are wanting to get out and about.

So cowchick77, do you believe your horses would take you for a ride if they had, and knew they had, the option to say, naw-not today?

To have a horse actually WANT to go for a ride is something that would make me very very happy.


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

When I used the term "barnhorse" above, what I really meant and should have said, "horses that are restricted to relatively small acreages". There I can see them wanting to get out of Dodge. But why would they want to leave the relative safety and security provided by a larger herd and go with a puny human unless some scrumptious menu was available.

There is really very little if anything available on a ride that is not already available for my horse.

This is a topic I've been mulling over for quite a while now. It's got me into trouble a few times.

And recently I watched a CRk Training video of an accomplished (maybe famous) gaited horse trainer that at some point in his career noticed how much the horses of another trainer seemed to like that trainer. The trainer in the video, Larry ....., I think, said, "I didn't really feel like my horses liked me, and I wanted them to like me", or something close. Not an exact quote I'm sure.

But I thought, yeah, that's what I want too.


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

I'd say that most horses don't give a hoot one way or the other. Perhaps that's one reason we value the ones with a work ethic. I've worked with several that liked getting out and doing things. Some have stood out as being anxious to get to work. One was a big chested, muscular walking horse. When I led him out the first time, he arched his neck, pricked his ears, and snorted. Didn't misbehave, but gave every indication that, once I mounted, he would be a fire breathing monster. While I was grooming him, the BO asked what I thought. I said "He sure is snorty". BO said "Yeah. He does that." He didn't care for dinking around in the arena, but once we were lined out on the trail, watch out! He knew his job was to get from here to there, quickly and smoothly. Every time I tacked him up, he did the fire breathing dragon routine. The only thing I could liken it to was an athlete, pumped up for the game, walking from the locker room to the field. 

Another I think was coming around to liking the job. Almost impossible to catch without a bribe. But, once on the trail, moved out eagerly. After I had worked her a while, I noticed she seemed to get upset when I rode out on a different horse. Calling, and running along the fenceline. She didn't do that when other folks rode out. 

Some other cases, I think are just the preference for familiar routine. I recall reading the journal of a fur trader from the 1840s describing the mule train hauling trade goods out from St. Louis. Each night the mules would be unloaded and hobbled or picketed out on grass. Each morning, the men would release the mules. Each mule would automatically go stand beside its' own pack and wait to be loaded. 

I recall old farmers telling much the same story about their farm horses and mules. All they had to do was open the gate, and the animal would go stand by the harness room.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

Cordillera Cowboy said:


> Some other cases, I think are just the preference for familiar routine. I recall reading the journal of a fur trader from the 1840s describing the mule train hauling trade goods out from St. Louis. Each night the mules would be unloaded and hobbled or picketed out on grass. Each morning, the men would release the mules. Each mule would automatically go stand beside its' own pack and wait to be loaded.
> 
> I recall old farmers telling much the same story about their farm horses and mules. All they had to do was open the gate, and the animal would go stand by the harness room.


That brings the discussion back to a concern @Hondo raised earlier, in a different thread: Is any particular instance of behavior like this motivated by a seeking of reward, or an avoidance of pressure?

Especially with routine behavior it's hard to say whether the horse anticipates an aid, or "instigates" the behavior because it seems like "fun". For example, a horse may want to gallop across open fields, or it may have been conditioned by _riders_ who want to gallop across open fields. This is something that's been on my mind, so I'm being quite intentional to _break_ my horse's routines when riding out. I can still override her, but I'm hoping she'll be able to tell me if she's in the mood for chilling or hauling a** in any particular instance.

This is contrary to Clinton Anderson, I have noticed, because he doesn't like a horse that has its own ideas. He explicitly states that he likes a "somewhat dull" horse that drudges along the trail and passively leaves all decisions to the rider. I like my horse to have a genuine "opinion", so I can create a ride that is a compromise between what I want and what she wants.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Hondo said:


> So cowchick77, do you believe your horses would take you for a ride if they had, and knew they had, the option to say, naw-not today?
> 
> To have a horse actually WANT to go for a ride is something that would make me very very happy.


 @*Hondo* , I hope you didn't take my post saying how horses are treated is the sole reason for enjoying their job. I think it is a factor, for at least what I do, but I also believe it is the work ethic installed and some horses have more drive than others. Admittedly my experience is pretty limited to QH's especially cow horse bred. They are pretty dang smart and have a work drive like a Border Collie dog.
With that said, yes, I think mine would choose to go to work. Mine get bored easily and if not ridden they take their boredom out on living and non-living things. LOL
Cordilla mentioned how a horse he rode would get excited like an athlete getting pumped up for a game. My sorrel horse is very much the same, when i get on first thing in the morning and we trot out of the barn he is a fire breathing dragon regardless of being fresh or not. He knows what we are going to do. He is a completely different horse working cows as to loping circles in the arena yet he is still happy to do it all rather than sit around in the pasture.

Bay horse used to be the same. Like I mentioned before, he knows the difference between those really long days and the shorter easier ones and lets me know about it. And I am happy to oblige him. He has deserved it. That horse has seen more desert and cows than most. I think his arthritis is playing a factor now which I am learning to manage and I am doing my best to make him comfortable so he enjoys his job and life.



mmshiro said:


> This is contrary to Clinton Anderson, I have noticed, because he doesn't like a horse that has its own ideas. He explicitly states that he likes a "somewhat dull" horse that drudges along the trail and passively leaves all decisions to the rider. I like my horse to have a genuine "opinion", so I can create a ride that is a compromise between what I want and what she wants.


I am biased as I am not a Clinton Anderson fan, I think that is why he gets along with the reiners better than cow horses. A lot of cow horse people joke about the reiners and dressage people needing the "numb and dumb" horses to do the same thing over and over again in the arena.
*zips up flame suit and runs to take cover*


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

I can't repeat what the rodeo guys... and girls... say around here about reiners, dressage of any sort, penning, or sorting.

There isn't a flame suit fire proof enough for me to go there.


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

mmshiro said:


> That brings the discussion back to a concern @Hondo raised earlier, in a different thread: Is any particular instance of behavior like this motivated by a seeking of reward, or an avoidance of pressure?
> 
> Especially with routine behavior it's hard to say whether the horse anticipates an aid, or "instigates" the behavior because it seems like "fun". For example, a horse may want to gallop across open fields, or it may have been conditioned by _riders_ who want to gallop across open fields. This is something that's been on my mind, so I'm being quite intentional to _break_ my horse's routines when riding out. I can still override her, but I'm hoping she'll be able to tell me if she's in the mood for chilling or hauling a** in any particular instance.
> 
> This is contrary to Clinton Anderson, I have noticed, because he doesn't like a horse that has its own ideas. He explicitly states that he likes a "somewhat dull" horse that drudges along the trail and passively leaves all decisions to the rider. I like my horse to have a genuine "opinion", so I can create a ride that is a compromise between what I want and what she wants.



Some good points being raised. 

It gets H O T here in the summers along with high humidity’s coming up from the gulf of Mexico. We don’t ride all that much here, in the summers. Fifteen minutes here or there in the mornings and evenings (There are four horses that need riding) usually, bareback and just a halter (Yes, makes for some wicked monkey/swamp butt. However, it is time efficient.). 

If there is a routine here, it has little to do with the saddle which is reserved for random days when it is under 90 degrees and longer "off property" rides. I generally take my horses to the saddle rather than the saddle to the horse like my husband does. They get tacked up out of the paddock with me. At least in Oliver's case, I don't think it had anything to do with a learned routine. 

It had been a while since Oliver got to go on a long ride. I really do think he was trying to tell me he needed to get out exploring for a while! Which says to me, meh, riding with a human on your back isn't so bad.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

AtokaGhosthorse said:


> I can't repeat what the rodeo guys... and girls... say around here about reiners, dressage of any sort, penning, or sorting.
> 
> There isn't a flame suit fire proof enough for me to go there.


Well, that goes both ways, as many performance riders call gymkana events as the 'jerk and spur' events!

Look at how a roping horse is stopped, some of the bits used by barrel racers,and then perhaps that being 'cowboyed' applies at times, LOL!

The 'real' cowboys, that I have respect for, are people like Martin Black, and others, who start colts on working ranches, using enlightened training methods, have very good hands, putting those solid miles on hroses, doctoring cattle.
It is also why , when some of these seasoned ranch geldings, like those of the Bar 6666, sell for 15,000 and up, to recreational riders
I don't see much at rodeos that I like.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Far as do horses like to be ridden, and I think often we see what we want to see.
Yes, some horses love their job, and ask anyone that has ridden a cow bred horse, how that horse loves to work cattle. I had a working cowhorse bred filly, that I sold, and she would work anything see could, including coyotes that came into our pasture
I am just satisfied that my horses are always easy to halter, no matter how lush the pasture, how many buddies they are in with,and ride out willingly, ears up, happy, and never act barn sour.
In the winter, they are more likely to come when called, as Hondo mentioned, while I often have to walk out when there is lots of grazing. (I don't go out with treats)
Horses that are kept in pens, are going to appear very eager to ride, but often that is because they associate being ridden, getting out of that dam pen. So, if you horse is confined, don't read too much into him seeing to almost try and put that saddle on himself!
There are stories of show horses, very upset, when left behind, fire truck horses that jumped the fence, after being retired, following the call of a siren , mill wheel horses that would walk circles , after being retired, in the hours they were worked.
Does that mean they missed their job, are acting as the creatures of habit, that they are, or, see being ridden as a chance to get out of that darn corral or stall?

I think it really does not matter.When my horses are easy to halter, have no problem being tacked up, ride off happily, go at whatever pace I ask, either coming or going- know what, that is good enough for me! 
Certainly, a horse that enjoys his job,, is going to perk up , when he knows he is going to be able to do that 'fun' thing, Best example is a horse that loves to work cattle. They definitely perk up, when they know they will be given that chance.
Smilie appears very eager to go on a ride. That could be based on the fact, that she gets out of the dry lot, has a chance to pick some grass along the way, as I allow, and I might even flatter myself, that she is eager because I now mainly ride Charlie, and is jealous!
It remains in the eyes of the beholder !


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## george the mule (Dec 7, 2014)

For those interested, Marthe Kiley-Worthington gives us a term "Conditional Anthropomorphism". I'm not even gonna start in about it, given that a simple Google found this excellent article:

https://connectiontraining.com/phew-its-ok-to-be-anthropomorphic/

This is worth a look if you are at all interested in equines having "feelings".

Steve


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

Does anybody go fetch their horse from a herd of around 20 horses? On large acreage?

Hondo is a cow horse and does like that. We used to do about two small gathers per week in season but now the ranch has gone to helicopter roundups. He does look at cows and suggest we go get them on trail rides so maybe I need to let him do a little droving for fun. I may be boring him. Sometimes he'll just stop on the trail and give a big ole human like sigh. And then go on without hesitation when I ask.

Hondo and Dragon used to both come to greet me whether I was on foot or on the motorcycle. Sometimes I'd halter Hondo and sometimes I'd just head back and they'd both follow.

This doesn't happen with the full herd in here in the field. They are herd animals and the safety and security of a large herd is a big big plus compared to facing the dangers of the trail with a human that hardly ever sees or hears what he hears until afterwards if at all.

But that said, once we're on the trail, he's never in a hurry to return. Once we get pretty close to the field on the return he does get a little nervous but as soon as he sees the herd, or the other horse, he settles. I chalk it up to worry that they'll still be there.

Be nice if they'd go get the bridle like dog does his leash but maybe not so fun when they jumped up on you with the fores.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

Smilie said:


> Well, that goes both ways, as many performance riders call gymkana events as the 'jerk and spur' events!
> 
> Look at how a roping horse is stopped, some of the bits used by barrel racers,and then perhaps that being 'cowboyed' applies at times, LOL!
> 
> ...


I just kinda feel like to each their own. 

There's terrible examples in every discipline, every type of event, and there's excellent examples. There's always someone that's willing to do whatever it takes to win, even if it means abusing the very animals they're relying on to win.

I say so long as the horses aren't being abused and the riders are enjoying what they do, enjoy.


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

@george the mule

Refreshing! Outstanding! I will sleep well tonight. What a great read.


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

Steve, AKA @george the mule,

Excellent article and you have given me a few new books to read! I am familiar with Marthe-Kiley-Worthington and have read her book The Behavior of Horses. A very thought provoking read.


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

As to Cow horses that love their jobs...My old Ghost, he was about thirty at the time, and other than some light riding to keep his joints moving and some kiddie rides, was retired. My neighbor brought her mini down to the pasture just to give her a little bit of a chance to run around. 

Now, old Ghost's eyes aren't the greatest. He thought that little mini was a calf. The head went up, the ears went forward and Phew! If that old boy didn't still have some moves on him. FOCUS! He was trying to get that mini....somewhere? Not quite sure where. There was a fence between them. No rider, that old boy was presented with a job and was going on automatic.

Oliver has shown an attraction to cattle. 

We were out riding on a thousand acre ranch which bordered a working cattle ranch. So, about a mile off from the fence line. The second we stepped on that trail, I could tell something was different. Oliver had somewhere to be. That day he had a real pep in his step. It suddenly wasn't "the same old trail". He was going "to" something and he knew what that was long before I did.

Most often, the cattle are somewhere else not against the fence line. That day, he couldn't wait to get to the part of the trail that runs along the cattle ranch. We got there and no cattle. So all he got to do was sniff some cow patties to get his fix. He'd sniff and then loooook. Sniff some more. Weirdo. 

I don't know much about his background or his breeding other than he came from people who "were getting out of horses and into cattle" and, that when I got him in with some Longhorns at pasture, he didn't even look twice. 

The lady I was riding with said many horses, even if they have been around "regular" cattle have an absolute melt-down when they get in with the Longhorns. I was proud of my boy that he wasn't in that meltdown group. Look, snort, move along. Get a gander at those horns!











So...maybe my boy has some cow horse in his background after all!


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

George's article sent me running around the internet and found this. Not directly related to the topic but sort of. I was surprised about a couple of things, particularly that the quoted Miller believes that horses learn faster than children. Also that they have the fastend reaction time of all mammals and a memory second only to the elephant.

The Equine Mind: Top 10 Things to Know | TheHorse.com


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Interesting discussion.
I wonder how much of it is less about the behaviors exhibited, and more about how the individual rider interprets them.


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

Zexious said:


> Interesting discussion.
> I wonder how much of it is less about the behaviors exhibited, and more about how the individual rider interprets them.


I'd say likely a little bit of both.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

On a basic level - I've always gotten irritated with people who asserted animals don't have feelings.

Okay, if they don't, then explain grieving elephants. Explain joy, playfulness, explain the ooey gooey love a mother cat has for her kittens, explain jealousy, fear, worry.

Okay, the rebuttal is always: Hormones in the mother cat that help ensure the litter survives. Play is practice for survival skills. And so on and so forth. 

Then who's to say that's not the same with humans if we're going to strip it down to nothing but instinct? When do you draw the line between instinct and emotion? Are we REALLY that superior in our awareness of the world and the emotions we experience? Or are we nothing more than animals cloaked in arrogance and undeserved superiority?

I think anyone that claims animals have no emotions is either looking for justification for cruelty and sadism, or they have never spent any significant, meaningful time in the presence of domestic animals or observing wild animals (hunters that spend a lot of time in a tree stand can regale you with all manner of wonderful stories about everything from wild hogs to woodpeckers and squirrels, bob cats, mountain lions, bears and coyotes, foxes, you name it, because they've observed the animals unaware of their presence.)

When we dismiss emotions in animals (I'm talking about higher orders of animals here) I think we're dangerously close to accepting cruelty. If they don't feel emotions, why have compassion or empathy?

Does a horse that WANTS to be ridden, WANTS a job, enjoys a job, seem to do so because he or she is conditioned to understand they receive a reward of delicious treats, high praise, and physical affection/grooming for that work? 

Yeah. Absolutely.

We're not different. Not in the least.

There's not a single one of us that goes to work for The Man and does it because we just love our job. We do it for a paycheck. We're conditioned to the reward of boss approval, bonuses, vacation time, a check that pays the bills.

A horse's paycheck is being treated fairly, fed, watered, groomed, and loved on. So, yeah. I stand by my claim that there are horses that love their job, they love to be ridden, they love the reward of the interaction, the adventure of going somewhere new (it stimulates the brain, encourages curiosity, and curiosity is a sign of intelligence and learning), the big payoff at the end where they get a huge reward lavished on them.

That's why my daughter used to just SEND ME INTO ORBIT. She'd ride the snot out of her horses, bring them home lathered up, dirty and tired, untack and turn them out without so much as a hi, bye or... well. You know. They became resentful, and I argued and argued with her that she was cheating them. Her counter was, why brush them out? They're just going to roll and get dirty. 

OH MY GOD. You truly don't get it, child. You really don't. They need the reward, they need to know you appreciated their time and effort. Its not about having a clean horse, it's developing and deepening a trust bond. You can be trusted to treat them well, and grooming one another is a huge bond-builder for all mammals. 

We caught son trying to turn Supes out after a day of riding yesterday, husband was all: Whoooaaaa no you don't sir. Supes gave you his best today. You spend time with him, let him know you appreciate him and lay it on thick.

It's taken daughter two years to realize I'm right. The horses all come running to me, by name. They avoid her. 

Son has not been so difficult - he just didn't realize it. The day doesn't end because you're home and the saddle is off. You still have work to do if you're doing it right, and it tells in how willing your horses will be.


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## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

My first boyfriend repeatedly told me that animals have no emotion, that they live their entire lives off of instinct. Not surprisingly, he'd never had a pet growing up, and had very little to do with animals of any sort. When we moved in together I brought my dog Nemo. After living with Nemo for a year, he changed his tune a bit. 

I should mention he changed his tune after he was very condescending and kept calling Nemo "a dumb animal" and would insist that me taking care of Nemo's needs every day was unnecessary since Nemo was "just a dog" and Nemo, bless his fluffy heart, began to repeatedly crap on all of Julian's things. His shoes, his backpack, his pillow. It was glorious. He never yelled at Nemo or did anything that was abusive, he just said things about Nemo that Nemo could understand were not pleasant, and Nemo decided to retaliate in the most perfectly passive-aggressive way. I would low-key scold Nemo when he pooped on Julian's things ("Nemo! What is this? How bad of you.") but in my heart I cheered him on. 

I broke up with Julian shortly thereafter. Nemo has never shat on anyone else's things. 

-- Kai


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

I found a list of Dr, Miller's articles. Its on Spalding Labs site but the list of old articles is proving to be a treasure trove, to me at least. 

I haven't read all of the short articles but I shall. All that I've read so far are to me uplifting. Miller is a 90 YO.

https://www.spalding-labs.com/commu...ler/b/dr_robert_millers_articles/default.aspx

Great article: https://www.spalding-labs.com/commu...e-ancient-secrets-of-the-horse-39-s-mind.aspx

A sentence from the article: Non-coercive training techniques produce equine athletes which perform well and *enjoy* doing it. This is achieved by means of the behavior shaping techniques described in this book and especially by control of movement.


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## Dixiesmom (May 26, 2013)

I had a gelding years ago who knew when we were heading back to the barn, and as we passed various trail entrances on the way, he'd often slow down and turn his head to look at me and veer a step or two in that direction as if he wanted to keep going. Every now and then on my way back to the barn from a solo ride I'd run into another boarder on their way out for a ride and especially if it was someone who preferred not to ride alone, I'd turn and go with them and he'd definitely pick up his stride when we turned away from the barn. Of course he was never remotely attached to any other horse in the years I had him at three barns, so I may have been his "best friend". Even though I was not the one feeding him, everyone at the barn was amazed at how excited he'd get when he heard my car coming - and yes, he knew my car. And when I rode alone, I'd often stop at some point in the ride, get off and hand graze him for awhile, so I'm sure that helped him like going out.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Zexious said:


> Interesting discussion.
> I wonder how much of it is less about the behaviors exhibited, and more about how the individual rider interprets them.


Sure. I would like to believe my horses enjoy their job but at the end of the day, like Smilie said, being obedient and responsive to get the job done is good enough.

A conditioned response has been brought up several times through out the thread. The drive to want to work cows is hereditary. A horse could also be conditioned to work cows too. I believe I can tell the difference riding one who has the natural drive and one who's just been conditioned to do so.

Mine were born with the ability to cow and shown the interest to do so before I "conditioned" them. 
Sorrel horse as a yearling turned out with the cavvy, we also weaned calves and put them all on the same meadow. Sorrel horse took it upon himself to live with the calves rather than the horses and would bring all the calves to feed ground every morning when we fed.
There are other stories of him doing his job before conditioned to do so. 
I think he enjoys his job much how my Border Collie get excited when I load them on the truck to go to work. I'd like to believe they enjoy their jobs too. It's pretty easy to tell when a dog is truly having fun


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Hondo said:


> I found a list of Dr, Miller's articles. Its on Spalding Labs site but the list of old articles is proving to be a treasure trove, to me at least.
> 
> I haven't read all of the short articles but I shall. All that I've read so far are to me uplifting. Miller is a 90 YO.
> 
> ...


 Unfortunately, Dr Miller left a bad taste in my mouth, far as his foal imprinting
His flooding methods, invasive handling of anew born foal, has since been proven to be harmful, so, right or wrong, that has me not having much of a desire to read anything else he has written


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

COWCHICK77 has pretty much nailed my thoughts. I do not consider horses dumb animals, without emotions, ability to show true affection, outside of what naturally motivates them, but I also don't let myself drift off into the Black Stallion' type mythical thinking


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

Not that it is right, however much of what we consider "science" was often gathered through...how shall I say it? Less than ethical means by today's standards. 

John B. Watson (John Hopkins University) and Baby Albert comes to mind. 

Much of what we consider proven "fact" in classical conditioning of a response came at the expense of a baby boy named Albert...and it wasn't even a well run experiment. The value came from other researchers conducting further experiments based off of Watson's. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Albert_experiment 

I can remember back right after the communist wall came down, that we (the US elite athletics community) were shocked to find out the types of extremes that the Communist nations had gone to in order to produce winning athletes. 

Despite this, much of the information extracted from those experiments are now used routinely in training. I think the way they looked at it was that as long as someone else was gathering the info and the deed was done, may as well use the information that was gathered. Ethics can be a slippery slope in so many instances.

Sometimes the result of the information from an experiment is "What not to do".


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

Smilie said:


> Unfortunately, Dr Miller left a bad taste in my mouth, far as his foal imprinting
> His flooding methods, invasive handling of anew born foal, has since been proven to be harmful, so, right or wrong, that has me not having much of a desire to read anything else he has written


Well shoot! Thought I had found somebody. If he floods foals, or any horses, that's disappointing. I'll read the part on imprinting....haven't yet. I was first to a new wet foal this year that had not yet found how to nurse. Placenta and all were still there. So I did get to handle him first.

Funny, he is about 1 1/2 months old and last night, couldn't get my smart phone going quick enough, he had his front legs up on his mommy's hinny trying to mount her.

One think I did wonder about in one Miller article was about comfort and discomfort. He suggested that pressure from the legs produced discomfort and when he moved and it was released it provided comfort.

I was thinking a while ago, wait a minute. The horse has a cinch strapped around him that produces a lot more pressure than a slight pressure from the leg. So what about communication? Slight leg pressure just doesn't sound that uncomfortable. Just respondig to a cue or a vocabular built on body language it seems.

So my excitement is dimmed, but he still has some good stuff to say.

Very fun watching the herd of 20 come in 2-3 times each day about 100 feet from the yard pen and watching the alliances and non-alliances, friendly overtures and hostilities at the three small waterers placed about 15 feet apart.

Guess I'll see if I can go dig up some more articles that everyone else has read and discounted years ago.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

Devo said:


> What an interesting topic.
> I never thought my horses liked to be ridden. Maybe Sharr did, he didn't run from me when I walked in with a halter.
> And except for him, the others had been worked hard. With severe training. Ex-race horse. Ex-cowboy horse. *Although many cowboy horses are treated well *and love their work. In fact I always thought they enjoyed their work more than jumpers or dressage horses.


I'd already commented on this already in this thread, but we just got back from dinner with a friend of my husband's. I've known this guy for years and years and years, and tonight is the first time I can remember ever talking to him beyond just saying hi. Anyway, Husband was telling him about us packing the bags of deer corn in yesterday and about riding and we're laughing and having a good time and Hubs asked him about his own horse.

J just shook his head, "You mean that sorrel I used to rope with?"

Yeah... You still got him?

No... I don't... Lost him two years ago. 

He went on to explain he'd gotten that horse when the horse was 7. He'd lived to the ripe old age of 30 and colicked one night. He rushed him to the vet through a huge thunderstorm, vet did all he could and sent them home. Horse seemed to kinda recover, but J said he sat up with him all night, and he could remember how bad it stormed all night. That his clothes were soaked.

The horse died with his head in his lap.

He got quiet and then said: That like to have killed me. It was like losing a child, y'know? I don't know if, or when, I'll ever be ready for another horse, he meant that much to me.

That was a sobering note and came straight from a former team roper's mouth. 

So, y'know. If anyone ever wonders if cowboys really love their horses? 

For most? The answer is yes.


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## redbarron1010 (Mar 11, 2017)

I think horses are like people, some enjoy working, some do it because they have to and some hate it. Our boys truly seem to enjoy trail riding, no rushing to get home, they are eager to go, and they look at everything. My sister's previous mare would be in the middle category, she would trail ride because she asked her, but I think she would rather stay home in the pasture and graze.


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## RoanUnderSaddle (Aug 22, 2017)

I do believe my little bay roan mare loves to work, she perks up when she sees a halter, though I do wager it's galloping that she enjoys most- and as such, she is turning into quite the little gaming horse. Another job that she seems really keen to do is work cattle; it doesn't seem to matter whether we are pushing a herd, penning, or keeping the steers off the fence for ropers. Sadly we haven't had the opportunity to do that at all this year.

Although those activities seem to be her preference, she's done everything and has enjoyed quite a bit. She likes to go places - trails, parades, arenas... She's first one to the fence when that trailer is hooked up. 

I do believe she is an amazing horse, especially for still being quite young (six). 


My other current riding horse, however awesome as she is, is lazy and less tolerant of work. She is six or seven and was only started this past year, which is even really late for my preference, so I think it's something time may solve for she had long since adjusted to pasture puff life. I haven't found what she wants to do yet, and I'm eagerly waiting to see what her "true call" is, for I do not mind adjusting things to better suit the horse - I am happy doing whatever job / discipline that my strawberry roan horse takes a liking to.

I do think that it is wrong to have a horse do something that they do not like, not every horse can barrel race, or jump, or work cattle, or be a pleasure horse. I see horses as being much more then tools for our pleasure.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I wasn't at all suggesting that horses don't have emotions, as some on this thread seem to think.

I was just offering an alternate perspective to explain some of the behavior that's being described here. Surely not every action is due to higher cognitive function (that most experts could claim horses don't have), just like surely not every action can be explained away by pure instinct. 

Similar versions of this topic (do horses have sympathy/empathy, do horses love, can horses be sad, do horses like xyz, etcetc) have been discussed countless times on HF, and it seems to be one of those things that people have static opinions about.


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## DanteDressageNerd (Mar 12, 2015)

Of course horses feel sad or joy and care. I think it'd ridiculous when humans try to assert animals aren't capable of emotions. Any person who works with animals and is good at it can tell you they definitely have feelings. They may be more simple than our own and not so layered but they definitely have feelings, opinion, memory and reactions. They can also rationalize to an extent. Animals DO communicate, however most people are unable to understand or interpret it or how to communicate with them to understand them. Every horse has a unique and distinct personality with different opinions and way of being. I think it's ridiculous how arrogant and conceited humanity can be, I wonder if it's for ease and laziness in considering them "dumb" animals because we scientifically cannot prove the full extent of their cognitive abilities. Extensively work with horses and other animals and then try to say they have no mindfulness or cant think for themselves or ability to perceive. They are definitely not strictly reactionary. Their emotions are "simpler" than ours but without a doubt they have them. Their filter is different and I must say I thank God I have aspergers because it allows me to understand them better because I see and experience the world more similarly. I see it in pictures, shapes and color, sensation rather than strictly a word or thought. It's hard to explain but Temple Grandin is an excellent read, as is experience and understanding they don't experience the world or interpret information the same as humans do. I wish I could explain better.

I'd say my quarab absolutely loves jumping and he loves working. 

My ottb loves to work. He is a crab @ss if he doesn't work, he needs to keep him mind and body busy or he's miserable and by miserable I mean ear pinning, double barrel kicking at horses as we walk by them, in general a crab apple. Keep him in work and his eyes are soft, he's happy and much more pleasant to be around. He NEEDS a job, he NEEDS physical and mental stimulation or he's more than a handful, even with 14hrs of turnout. He's just a highly-highly intelligent, very athletic horse. He's an intense individual and makes a good professionals horse. He might be too intense for most, he's extremely athletic. He's SO focused and the whole ride he feels like he's saying what do you need? It's a reward to him to lengthen out or go and do something more. Like if I make any sending motion with my seat, it's like he's saying canter? yes MAM!! Let's go! He loves his job but he is not fond of jumps. He prefers to be ridden vs lunged or doing handwork. I don't know how to describe it other than he comes alive in work. It's like he finds out about a task and hits the ground running. He's the only horse I've trained who takes everything he's learned one day and has it all the next and ten other things. He's a workaholic. 

My mare likes to work and do something but she'd be perfectly happy turned out in a field with a herd for the rest of her life having babies. She's pretty indifferent to work. Sometimes I'd say she likes it, sometimes Id say she'd rather be out in pasture with her friends. She enjoys attention and spending time with her people but I wouldn't say she's work motivated. She's pretty indifferent to work.

I rode another who was a 27yr old horse who had been neglected and he LOVED to work, absolutely loved it. He loved dressage work, it helped him move a lot more comfortably around the pasture. He'd even buck and play on the lungeline sometimes which was great to see in a horse as old as he was 17.2h as well. 

Another is a 21yrs old 18.2h horse who LOVES LOVES LOVES to work, he needs a job. He'd be miserable without one, he needs a job or he isn't as happy. He doesn't ride like an older horse, if you think canter you're gone, if you think anything that is a forward motion and there he goes. He LOVES to do an extended trot, he's like yes mam! You have to keep him back in trot and remind him to stay with you or off he goes. It's kinda funny, he's a blast to ride.

Honestly I know a lot of horses who enjoy having a job, I know ones that don't as well or are indifferent to work but I think it's just like people. Quite a few horses I rehabbed from psychologically damaging situations came to love their work, some were too far gone to fully rehab but made good trail horses or husband safe horses. Some with physical damage and through rehab were able to make vast improvements with good work. I had an EPM horse who had it quite advanced before he was treated. When he started dressage work he couldnt quite control his hind end and had the worst gaits of any horse I'd ever seen. Really dragged the hind, after 6-9mo he moved like a normal horse after warm up and after a year moved like a normal horse in full control of his body without any warm up. It was AMAZING to witness. My friends horse with shivers they've been able to slow it down, the vet thinks from being in work. It's like us keeping fit and using our bodies helps us sustain a lot better.

I know a 23yr old horse whose a major workaholic. You'd have NO idea he's 23 if you didn't know. He NEEDS a job, he loves being a dressage horse, he loves to show even more. He really comes alive at a show, I've never seen him happier than when he's in the show ring. He has so much energy and life to him, he's a performer and loves it.

I find a lot of our dressage horses enjoy their work, not all of them. The ones who don't usually go into other disciplines to find their niche because every horse has different preferences and jobs they enjoy than others. They need to do what they love. Same with us. For example I can't work at a desk job, IQ is irrelevant. I can't focus, I'm miserable and too intense. I need a physical job. I'm also "lame" if I don't work a physical job, as in I'm in so much pain and unstable in my legs I look like a cripple. But if I stay in work you'd have no idea I'm as "crippled" as I am. I feel a difference and I notice quite a few horses, particularly older and horses with previous injuries (depending on what they were) do better and feel better in work than without. Of course it's all anecdotal and not very scientific but with animals I think anecdotal is where we find ourselves most of the time. Dependent on experience, some science but most of it is hands on experience and less theory.


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