# Foot position when sitting the trot - how to fix it?



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

try the old trick of rolling your thigh muscle /fat backward , out of the way.

you stop your hrose, while just sitting relaxed, reach your hand around back of your thigh, slide it under the thigh, and lift and rotate the flesh outward, so your thigh is rotated around out and toward the front . this make more of the flesh contact the saddle, rotates the whole thigh bone and brings the knee more forward, and should also bring your foot more forward pointing. 

also, your stirrups are likely too long.


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

It depends on what you want in riding. If you value toes front, then you may have to work at it. As tinyliny points out, the toe position sometimes reflects the thigh position.

OTOH, George Morris recommends 10-45 deg toes out. The US Cavalry manual recommended 20-45 deg toes out. Littauer recommended 30 deg toes out. Many western riders have their toes out. My left toe is always further out than my right, including when I'm standing in the shower...something funky with my leg, I guess. My toes go further out on a broad backed horse than my narrow horses - again, it probably reflects my thigh position.

You may have more tension in your leg posting, which would make it easier to hold the toes forward. In two point, my toes are more forward than in a sitting trot. But I'm a backyard rider...


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Interesting tinyliny, haven't heard of that.

Make sure you aren't braced. Try to feel like you are standing on the floor. Do NOT force your heel down. People (including instructors) tend to get carried away with that. Stretch into your heel, relax down. Do not force. No stiffness. I find the best way to fix foot position is to not worry about it (funny how often this applies to riding). Just a gentle reminder as needed, heels down. Heels down is a)safety (keeps the stirrup from going back too far) and b) correct *leg* position. Nice long calf. Focus on really stretching and wrapping the calf and not so much on the foot itself. Think of your legs as wet noodles, stretching down through the heels.

As bsms noted, having your toes out slightly is normal. You don't want them perfectly parallel to the horse.

Also, if you have a lazy beginner horse you may find yourself using your heels and the back of your thigh to push. Too much pushing is counter productive so try too keep that wet noodle feeling as you push.


----------



## Sadie Giddys Up (Aug 20, 2014)

Yogiwick said:


> Make sure you aren't braced. Try to feel like you are standing on the floor. Do NOT force your heel down. People (including instructors) tend to get carried away with that. Stretch into your heel, relax down. Do not force.


 
I think trainers say "stretch into your heel" a lot and for me i thought it was stretch your heel down or force your heel down. This makes a lot more sense to stretch and RELAX down. Should help my ankle pain!


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Glad I could help. You do want a heel down position but it should not be the focus of your riding. You can have your heel too far down!

It does sound very forceful, doesn't it? Something you hear so much of to! Think of your leg stretching and your heel being down only because the front of you foot is held up by the stirrup. Or instead of pushing into your heel try to think of it being pulled from the bottom.

I'm sure it will help with any pain! NO part of riding should be forced. It may not seem natural but there are always tricks so it becomes natural and "forced" should have no part in riding.

Googled hunter (my example of a more heel down position):










and dressage for even less:










(Note how it looks like if the horse disappeared the rider would be standing normally. Now you need to practice to stretch down into your stirrups like that while maintaing proper leg position, it is harder than it looks! A stirrup like this is NOT wanted for most disciplines (and heels down is more important when you're jumping, understandably) and you wouldn't want the heel any higher, but she looks pretty darn nice!)

Couldn't find any good examples of forced, but I've seen plenty!! Here is a fake forced (though typically the toe will be out more):








See how it effects the leg position, also note how annoyed the horse looks lol. Obviously this is overly dramatic, but I have seen plenty forced even more and while the leg is at least slightly more stable it does effect the horse and rider overall.

ETA- OP, if you toe out normally then that may be another reason your toes may be further out.


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Heels down: The best description I've heard came from a fellow forum member, who described it as letting your weight flow uninterrupted into your heels. That takes force out of the equation.

What results will depend on your flexibility and your lower leg position. The ankle is the exact same in the line drawings below, but in one the 'shin' is vertical and in the other it is pulled back:










If your heel is under your hip, very few people will have their heel 'down'!

Toes out: after 6 years of riding, my toes don't go as far out as before...so I'm guessing more experienced riders tend to have their toes more forward than beginners. However, check out this video of the Maclay Finals from the Alltech National Horse Show last year:


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

jumpers will have the foot turned out more becuase they want more of the back of the calf on the horse. it is a position for strength for over jumps.


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

tinyliny said:


> jumpers will have the foot turned out more becuase they want more of the back of the calf on the horse. it is a position for strength for over jumps.


As well as a slightly lower heel than other disciplines.

This is Equitation too right? I wouldn't use this is an example personally.

At 9:00m-ish. Is leg yielding a common part of competition?


----------



## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

amberly said:


> when sit the trot - whether it be western, english or bareback, I notice that my toes tend to being to stick out, rather than stay parallel with the horse. I keep mind of that and fix it when it starts to happen.
> I don't have photo or video yet - but tomorrow I am hoping to get some.
> 
> basically, my foot goes from being parellel with the horse, toes in, to perpendicular - toes out and heels in.
> ...


The angle of your toes in relation to the horse's sides may vary according to the shape of the horse as well as the length or your legs and the proportion between the upper and lower legs. A thirty degree angle is a commonly stated goal.

However, if the angle of your toes changes when you trot, I suspect that you are tightening certain muscles that change the position of your seat and legs. Here are some things to consider.

Especially when trotting, many riders reflexively contract the muscles on the inner side of the thigh. Such tightening may cause a stiffness in the pelvic area as well as a rotation of the legs. It might also cause a rising of the rider's center of gravity.

To determine if this happens in your situation, try to feel what happens around your pelvic area when you trot. Do you become stiff? Do you find it hard to follow the movement of your horse's back muscles when trotting? Do you feel your center of gravity rise and your seat seem to become somewhat unstable?

Another common habit of riders is to try to hold themselves in the saddle by gripping the horse's sides with the back of their lower legs.

To counteract either of these tendency, you should consciously try to release any muscular tension in these areas. As you release this unwanted tension, your seat should sink lower into the saddle. Without the blocking action of your legs muscles, gravity should be able to better draw your legs down and cause them to wrap effortlessly around your horse. These factors should provide you with a lower center of gravity and a more stable seat. At the same time, your body should become more free to follow the motion of your horse.

As an added bonus, your horse should begin to reflect your softer muscles and its trot become smoother and easier to ride. 

This relaxation at a trot is not always easy to achieve. It often helps to think of relaxing at a walk first. Because the walk is so much easier to ride, riders often don't think about how tense their muscles might be. Try to become conscious of this. Feel how your body wraps around your saddle. Sense how freely your seat bones and lower spine follow the motion of your horse. You should be able to feel your seat bones rotating up, forward, down, up, forward, down approximately 180 degrees off from one another. At the same time, they should move a little side to side as your legs swing in rhythm with your horse's body. Your lower spine should be moving every which way. 

Try to feel the movement of your horse's hind feet with your seat bones. One woman who happened to have Parkinson's Disease told me if felt as if she were marching. Try to feel the movement of your horse's front feet with your inner thighs. In both instances, you should be able to tell when each of your horse's feet is stepping forward or taking weight. A spotter on the ground can help point out what is happening as you first learn to feel this. 

When you can feel all of these things, you should feel assured that your muscles are truly free from unwanted tension. Then, try to accomplish this same type of sensitivity at the trot. By concentrating on feeling the intricacies of your horse's movements, you may overcome your natural tendencies to tighten your muscles.

I hope this helps.


----------



## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

My stirrups are at the correct length for western - not sure about english, was going to get photos tonight hopefully. But even bareback I do it - where there is no stirrups.
I always keep my heels down, toes up - I never force my heel, I actually lift my toes and let my heel relax. 

My horse is 23 years old and was born lazy - and he surely isn't beginner horse, jsut to throw that out there, hehe!

I'll get some video and photo tonight hopefully.


----------



## mslady254 (May 21, 2013)

Here's what tip someone told me that fixed it for me. It's basically the same as 
Tinyliny said, but put the focus on your knee instead of the thigh. It helps some people understand it better. Anyhow, try this:

while standing, put all your weight on your left foot/leg, and turn your right toes in without twisting your foot or ankle at all, turn your knee inward instead (which rolls the thigh as Tinyliny said), now put the weight on the right foot and repeat with the left foot. See how well your toes are 'in' and you arent twisting or doing anything at the ankles?

OK, now..when your sitting on your horse, pull your right knee a bit out, off the horse, and turn the knee inward just like you did while standing, (which does roll the thigh as already said ),then let the knee go back into place on the horse (not squeezing or gripping,,,just resting on the saddle) Viola! toes are at least straight , maybe in,,,NOT out. yay! 
now , repeat on the left.
No more struggling to keep them in good position, no more twisting your ankles and having pain. You might need to occasionally recover the good position, as you gradually let the knee turn out again, but I think you'll get great results and love this tip.

Good luck
Fay


----------



## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

Yogiwick said:


> As well as a slightly lower heel than other disciplines.
> 
> This is Equitation too right? I wouldn't use this is an example personally.
> 
> At 9:00m-ish. Is leg yielding a common part of competition?


Equitation riders, hunters riders and jumper riders should have the same basic position since it is all based on hunter seat riding. The difference is that hunter riders and jumper riders are not judged on their position. 

I would say no, lateral movemements are not usually called for in qualifying classes for the Maclay. In the class bsms posted, that was the Maclay Finals so the class is judged a little tougher and the judges asked the riders to do a half pass and most riders were surprised by the call. Most only managed only a leg yield. The Maclay finals flat phase last year were split into 3 groups. bsms posted Group B. Group A was the top group and some in that group did perform a half pass.


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Equitation specifically tends to be focused more on how you *look* than how you *ride*. That's more what I was getting at.

Interesting I was also surprised, never seen that 

OP, focusing on lifting your toes is also counterproductive. Let your heel stretch, yes, but don't worry about pushing or pulling anything.

I always let my legs flop bareback  You may just naturally have feet that point out more.


----------

