# Fresian Cross



## fuadteagan

I like some..... Not all.... I like like ones that have like around the same build just like a different color. Like a blanket coat or a pinto coat or something like that. I love the black color and everything but if it is a cross I prefer it to be like a show-stopping, bold, amazing horse. Here are some examples of some I like::: 








This is a cross Between a dutch warmblood and fresian? Kinda cool








Doesn't say other breed... Prettty though








TB X fresian


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## BansheeBabe

I agree. I like fresian crosses when they look like a fresian but are a differnt color. I love the 1st 2 pictures you posted. 
this is a fresindale - a fresian clyde cross and the bay is a fresian warmblood cross


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## kayleeloveslaneandlana

I love that top picture! I love the looks and the stride! Looks like a very nice horse!


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## Haylee

I LOVE freisians! I want one (but I cannot afford) I rode one named Stider once (he was so smooth!) If your interested you can read this! It is a WHITE freisian. http://solitairemare.blogspot.com/2008/10/white-friesian.html Not my info, but I thought that I would share because it is so cool!


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## JustDressageIt

I dislike Friesian crosses. The premise behind the governing bodies is to not crossbreed, and I greatly respect that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ali M

Omg I would kill to own that bay....


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## gypsygirl

i dont know any friesian cross that i like. none of the ones i know are very athletic or nice tempered -[that just the ones i know - i know about 10 of them]


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## Lis

There's a Friesian x cob at my riding school who I've ridden a few times and I would honestly buy him if I could. He's an amazing jumper, comes back to you so easily after a jump and is so comfy. He's a piebald and inherited the Friesian mane and tail but all the cob feather which looks stunning.


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## Jessabel

Meh, there's a fine line. I've seen hundreds of ugly-as-sin Friesian crosses, yet people still pay out the wazoo for them (same with Gypsy crosses, I've noticed). They don't cross well with many other breeds. And a lot of them get a bad rap because so many people breed their low-end mares with Friesian stallions just to say they have a Friesian cross and it sounds fancy and all that. I kind of like the Appy. I don't see what's so special about the TBxFriesian, though.


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## eventerdrew

someone I knew way back when had two Moresians (Morgan X Friesian). A mother and her colt.

ICK.

But Some crosses are pretty. not sure on temperament as I have very limited experience with friesians or crosses


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## crimsonsky

i like the friesian x appy but as said by pretty much everyone here. it's not a cross i would "participate" in personally. friesians are bred to specific criteria same with (most of the) breeds that are used in these crosses. why do that? just stick with one or the other. just my opinion. *shrug*


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## mlkarel2010

I really like the Warlanders (Friesian X Andalusian). Check this guy out! Beautiful Buckskin!!!

Xanto


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## Katze

I don't like or dislike friesian x's, BUT I would never buy one.


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## BansheeBabe

But some fresian crosses have turned into actual breeds such as the warlander which is the andy x fresian and the georgian grande with is the saddlebred x fresian so obviously not all crosses are failures. breeds are created my cross breeding.


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## Alwaysbehind

JustDressageIt said:


> I dislike Friesian crosses. The premise behind the governing bodies is to not crossbreed, and I greatly respect that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree.


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## QHDragon

I like the warlander, and the georgian grande, those were both created with a purpose in mind. The others I will pass on. It greatly upsets me to see everybody breeding their whatever mare to a friesian stallion, usually a stallion that did not get approved at their keuring (or didnt even go) in the first place. 

My first horse was a friesian x tb and he was very, very difficult to train. Horrible experience. I ended up trading him for my real first horse who taught me soooo much. He was just a plain ole quarter horse.


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## fuadteagan

I feel that if you breed for a purpose. Like you want to do some jumping but also classical dressage and you have a fresian stallion and your friend has a warmblood or something mare that can jump really good that your friend lets your breed your fresian stallion to. Then you train the horse and use it as a fun horse. I mean I don't care for just crosses. I absouletly love love love love the fresian breed and would rather own a horse that is nice and respectful of me. I don't care what breed.....


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## SEAmom

At my barn, we have 2 Friesian/Saddlebred crosses. They're absolutely breathtaking in their pinto coloring. The older of the 2 will be 4 years old this year. He's being trained in hunter under saddle. Omg, he is an amazing mover! By far and away the smoothest canter I've ever ridden - that's a lot of different canters! - and his trot is just as pleasant. I can sit his trot without pain or post it with minimal bounce. He's a great mover and SUPER sweet. He loves to give kisses and is wonderful with kids. My 6 year old daughter has been helping his owner (a friend of mine) clean his stall, brush him, and even bathe him for a year now. Now that my daughter is more careful and more experienced around horses, the lady who owns him lets my daughter lead him back to his stall (with supervision, of course).

She has a just-turned-2 year old filly that is being started now and she's just as sweet and loving as her older brother. They came from the barn that started the "Georgian Grande" (sp?) registry back in the '70s (I think). The filly is a more animated mover and we're thinking she'll do saddleseat. She's 2 years younger, but already the same height as the older one. My daughter also helps clean her stall, brush her, give her treats, and anything else that a 6 year old can do with a horse. 

I've never had a bad experience with either of them. Maybe they're an exception, but I love their colorings, their builds, and their temperaments.


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## PintoTess

I want that first one O.O!!


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## Lis

On a site I go on quite a lot there are a lot of "Friesian" crosses which would put anyone off the crosses, not the nicest put together and that's putting it nicely. However I very much doubt these are actually Friesian crosses because most of the foals are coloured and the cross they're supposed to be means there should be solid foals only.


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## PintoTess

Now looking at the first one, he is quiet a funny shape.....


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## starlinestables

There are very few friesian crosses I'd purchase. The breed is lovely the way they are and I don't believe they cross well.


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## PintoTess

Then again, Friesian x shires are quiet nice.....


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## breezy17

fuadteagan- I thought the very first picture looked familiar.. that's the sire of one of the horses at my barn! He has unfortunately passed away recently.. I think there was a fire at his barn.


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## Alwaysbehind

fuadteagan said:


> I feel that if you breed for a purpose. Like you want to do some jumping but also classical dressage and you have a fresian stallion and your friend has a warmblood or something mare that can jump really good that your friend lets your breed your fresian stallion to. Then you train the horse and use it as a fun horse. I mean I don't care for just crosses. I absouletly love love love love the fresian breed and would rather own a horse that is nice and respectful of me. I don't care what breed.....


The problem with that plan is you are just as likely to get a horse that is not good at anything than you are to get one that takes on the good qualities of both horses.


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## SEAmom

That can be said of any two horses, regardless of the breeds.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Alwaysbehind

SEAmom said:


> That can be said of any two horses, regardless of the breeds.


If you are breeding two like creatures (same breed with history) you have a far better chance of getting what you want out of it than you do if you breed two unlike breeds with no history of the breeding.


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## FeatheredFeet

I always find it odd, that people think an f1 cross is suddenly a breed. To make a breed, it takes many generations and a ton of animals, to make a breed - one which breeds true, time after time.

I have seen all kinds of f1 crosses, called Georgian Grandes.

Lizzie


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## Alwaysbehind

FeatheredFeet said:


> I always find it odd, that people think an f1 cross is suddenly a breed. To make a breed, it takes many generations and a ton of animals, to make a breed - one which breeds true, time after time.
> 
> I have seen all kinds of f1 crosses, called Georgian Grandes.
> 
> Lizzie


What the heck does f1 mean?


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## flytobecat

Fresians really aren't my thing. 
I just don't understand the point of crossing them. If you are looking for an eventer why not go with a Hanovarian or some other warm blood.


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## FeatheredFeet

Alwaysbehind said:


> What the heck does f1 mean?


It stands for the filial 1 generation. ie. a cross of dogs, horses or even plants. These being hybrids of very different types. NOT a breed or something which which breeds true every time.

Lizzie


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## its lbs not miles

" Originally Posted by *JustDressageIt*  
_I dislike Friesian crosses. The premise behind the governing bodies is to not crossbreed, and I greatly respect that."
_

Interesting concept since every domestic breed of horse in existance during recorded history is the result of cross breeding. So do tell what is the breed that has a governing body, but was not the product a some form of cross breeding?
We can automatically rule out every breed of domestic horse.

Crossbreeding horses has been done since recorded history as people want to make improvements. The US has a long and very active history of it (Morgans, TWH, ASB, RMH, AQH just to name a few). Some of these have recognize breed standards that are barely 100 years old. And 100 years from now I hope the US can still boast one of the most active breeding programs intent on making improvements. Personally I think a lot of breeds have been producing more less desirable animals. I remember TWH 30 years ago that were tall, solid, powerful animals with broad chest and back. Our TWH stallion was a great example of that. Today they still exist, but in much smaller numbers. They still have the height, but tend to be much lanker and lighter. These "governing bodies" are not keep the breeds as they were originally bred to be. They are keeping the "pure" but blood only. I think that screams for someone to work at keeping some things they way they were intended. And if it takes making a new breed, but introducing new blood to reaquire those traits, then I'm all for it.


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## kayleeloveslaneandlana

I would love to have the chance to own the Warlander, since I love Andalusians so much and I think the Andalusians athletic abitlity would greatly help the Friesian get the hind legs more under themselves for Dressage. This is about the only Friesian I start drooling over ORCA - 2003 Pinto Friesian Stallion if I had the money I would take him in a second!


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## ShutUpJoe

Not for or against Friesian crosses. A lot of Amish families own and cross their Friesian stallions. 

Some of them are good looking... some of them are ugly. But then again I own Gypsy Horse X Haflingers...which are also controversial. Moving on.. here are some crosses I like: 










Phantom of the Opera




I know there are a ton of Appaloosa/Friesians. And some of them are just plain beautiful!
Mystic Warrior with his dame








(but he is a 3/4 Friesian)
Then there is this guy...who was for sale last year. 








Not sure what he is crossed with. His name is Z Blanco Norsk. 

And I know a Friesian X Gypsy made the front page of a magazine not too long ago... 
This one in fact:
Gypsian (Gypsy/Friesian Cross) Horse for Sale | Colt | Spotted | Lone Star










Sorry but I drooled just a little. 

Trying to see the point in crossing a Haflinger with a Friesian...? Not that I think she is SUPER ugly.. I just don't see the point in the cross.


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## its lbs not miles

He is a lovely Friesian sport horse. Based purely on his look it appears (size and overall look) he has mostly Friesian blood. I confess I haven't seen any Friesian sport stallions before. Most of what I've seen in stallions are black like the pure bloods. I wonder what the other breed they introduced in his cross that gave him the pinto coloring gene. The way he holds his tail I'd almost guess a TWH or ASB, but could not say for sure 
Lovely animal regardless. Like most Friesians, a little heavy for my purpose, but would make a good breeding prospect with a lighter gated mare if I needed another one.
Showing is not my interest. So a lot of what a friesian offers is waisted on my horses, but as long as they meet my needs I'll never complain about the bonus of having a majestic looking animal.


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## its lbs not miles

Ooops. Ment to say I haven't seen any pinto Friesian sport stallions. Until I looked you the link ORCA - 2003 Pinto Friesian Stallion


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## its lbs not miles

Of course, for people like me it's the horses abilities and personalities that matter most. One great little distance horse I knew was some sort of cross (not mine). Likely a Heinz 57 ) , and certainly not pretty. Maybe about 14.2 and probably some pony blood in her. She could ride all day without a sign of complaint and got along with everyone (horse and riders). Dependable to a fault. Her rider was about 65" and many 115lbs certainly loved and appreciated that little mare. I certainly would not have turned down owning her.


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## FeatheredFeet

I am not crazy about Appaloosas, but I know the sire of the appy x gypsy pretty welll. He's a nice horse who came from Hermits stable in the UK. They have bred some exceptionally nice appy coloured Gypsies.

Don't like the look of the friesian x haffy much. Big head, upsidedown neck and not a particularly good look all round. There again, people seem to breed all kinds of crosses that don't work.

Lizzie


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## ShutUpJoe

I don't disagree with you at all.... When I saw that foal on the cover of the magazine my initial thought was why did they cross an Appaloosa with a Friesian? Why waste a breeding like that? I bought the magazine because Latcho Zor was featured in it and I went down not long before it came out and saw Zor in person. After reading the magazine I found out that the foal wasn't an AppaloosaXFriesian, he was a GypsyXFriesian. Still not sure about the cross... I think the only thing the two have in common is the feathering... or maybe that they are used as cart horses...? But that may be ignorance talking. Maybe they have more in common than that?


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## Silent one

I don't know about other crosses but I sure do like mine! He is 1/2 Friesian and 1/2 NSH.


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## mumiinek

So many people against cross breeding. Would any of us have our horses if it wasn't for cross breeding?

For me, there is cross breeding and cross breeding. If you want to breed your old crooked fjord mare with the neighbor's backyard bred arabian stallion just because your mare is soooo sweet and the stud is for free, I would never advise you to go for it. Do I like the idea of a friesian mare being crossed with a thoroughbred just because somebody wants a jumping horse with cool trot? No. But if there are certain standards defined, horses carefully chosen and only proffesional breeders involved, I might be very interested in the new breed that comes out of it. Personally I'm a fan of the new Barock Pinto/Pinto Friesian. They're not something somebody just thought of crossing when bored in the afternoon, they have their own studbook just like friesians and are an actual breed. Though they've existed for just a bit over 50 years, I believe the breeding is heading a good direction and at least the few breeders I know are very knowledgeable and responsible people that would never even think of letting their stallion jump the next warmblood mare just cause her markings are so flashy. I do believe these horses are worth it. Many people fight for keeping the friesian blood pure (including me), but most of them don't realise friesians are a product of cross breeding themselves and only exist as we know them for 100 years (think of a black noriker before). I say keep friesians friesians. But if you think they might contribute to a new breed that not only has the looks but is also functional, has the desired conformation and temperament, I'm not against it. 
























































My friesian can very well be a cross. His papers were never found and I know that just because the seller swears he had them doesn't mean he did. Would I think of crossing a friesian myself? Never. Would I ever consider buying a friesian cross if he had the conformation, brains and willingness of my current horse? Oh yes (shame on me!).


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## its lbs not miles

"Do I like the idea of a friesian mare being crossed with a thoroughbred just because somebody wants a jumping horse with cool trot? No."

Actually I think breeding to make a jumper with good riding gaits would be an excellent reason to cross if that's what you want. Certainly every bit if not more reason than breeding for a certain "look". Such as breeding to develope a pinto within a breed. Not that there's anything wrong with breeding for look, if that's what you want, but gaits and jumping are certainly more useful from a riders perspective and provides a functional use. Functional is what most cross breeding has historically been about.

I know wonderful horses that came from crossing excellent jumping breeds with Friesians, such as AQH, Arabian, ASB and yes, TB.


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## PecuniaMiAmor

I'm very split on this. I don't like crossbreeding just to crossbreed. People who breed their arabian to a friesian because they want a friesian derivative of some sort. Or because those are their "favorite breeds" well now you have a foal that is of neither.

However, if left to professionals or for a specific use, I have no problem with it. I'd say just check around and see if you can find something similar for sale first.


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## FeatheredFeet

Friesian crosses happen to the the cross of the day right now. The majority probably shouldn't have come about. A few years back, everyone wanted to breed to a Gypsy and again, we saw some awful crosses. Fads come and go.

Lizzie


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## its lbs not miles

For me it was far to difficult to find the gaited horses that had the bone and muscle mass I needed for my prefered riding (and some additional considerations). AQH's do well and that's what I did my distance riding on in my youth (my AQH and TWH days). Today I'm going to stay with the easier ride of the gaited horse. The ASB was my choice but just didn't have the bone mass I wanted and all of them I could find were a bit like the TWH I've seen lately. Tall, but lighter than I remember from 40 years ago. Intoducing a large draft posed to much chance for a horse larger than I wanted. Friesians being bascially a light draft made for a perfect cross. In both of my mares I got the wouldfully sweet disposition and matestic look of the Friesian (especially the look of my younger filly) and two horses of good size with good bone and muscle mass able to easily to 30-50 miles a day. And for my sake ) a lovely consistant riding gait.

So for me it really doesn't matter what any one says. There are many breeds that are great for long distance riding, e.g. Mustangs, Morgans and the like. And Morgans are an excellent gaited breed. But my crosses gave me specific things I wanted and it wouldn't bother me a bit to see more like them turn into a well know breed 100 years from now....just in case there are other people who end up looking for the same things I was. I'll leave it to the professional breeders to work on that though. I'm just in it for me and my horses.


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## Celeste

I thought that the Georgian Grandes were now an actual breed. This would be that you would breed one Georgian Grande to another Georgian Grande to get a baby Georgian Grande. That means that they are no longer f1 crosses. The only f1 would be the original Fresian crossed on the saddlebred. Subsequent generations would be f2, f3, etc. This makes them very different genetically from the f1.


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## its lbs not miles

I guess that would make my girls f1 Georgian Grande, since their parents were Saddlebred and Friesian (each has different bloodlines though).
Whatever they are, they are gorgeous to me. Stong and lovely. Might end up needing a robe ladder on my saddle for one if she doesn't stop growing. The "little one" is about 16 hands and looks as Friesian as her Friesan sire (little lighter and shorter).
The big girl is going on 16.3 at 3 years and appears to want to be "like father like daughter" since her sire is 17.2. Will be interesting next year when I start putting her under the saddle.

So someday, if I find a nice Georgian Grande Stallion I like I can breed them and have an f2 is guess. Whatever it is, I have now doubt it will be an equally fine animal.


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## FeatheredFeet

I've seen several different types of crosses, called Georgian Grandes.

Lizzie


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## mumiinek

its lbs not miles said:


> "Do I like the idea of a friesian mare being crossed with a thoroughbred just because somebody wants a jumping horse with cool trot? No."
> 
> Actually I think breeding to make a jumper with good riding gaits would be an excellent reason to cross if that's what you want.
> 
> I know wonderful horses that came from crossing excellent jumping breeds with Friesians, such as AQH, Arabian, ASB and yes, TB.


And how do you foresee that the foal WILL be a jumper with good riding gaits? You must know your horses and their lines very well to be able to pair them to get a certain result. I've seen many wonderful crosses too but I've seen much more crooked mutts with horrible conformation that their owners hoped to have a champion out of and now they're happy to be able to trail ride them on the weekends (though they very often just get rid of them as soon as possible). If you think you can breed any jumping horse to any friesian and the result is going to be the perfect show jumper with perfect movement you seriously should not breed. 

Barock Pinto is not just about crossing a friesian with a colourful warmblood to get a pretty colour, if that's what it seems like to you. There are a few carefully selected crosses that established the breed and if you want to contribute to it, there's no way you can just bring your mare over to the breeder and say you think her foal would make an excellent little barock pinto cause her daddy and mommy had a pretty colour like she does. You must bring your horse to a BP keuring where it's very closely evaluated - the comformation, the movement, the temperament and THEN it's decided whether this horse is suitable for breeding, whether she has the qualities the breeders seek to highlight. And the horses that result in this crossing, amongst everything else, also have the colour. Why are Friesians black? Why don't they come in any other colour? Why are they banned from registering when a foal of a different colour is born? Because that's one of the characterictics of the breed. Just like Equus Kinsky are palomino, Knabstrups are leopard, Lipizzans are gray and Paints are paints. 

So no, it's not just about a pretty colour...


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## its lbs not miles

Yes, it is about having the pretty color. No other reason to work so hard at it to get a certain look. Just because you pick a good bloodline and what addtional traits does not alter that fact. Not that there's anything wrong with wanting a certain look and breeding for it. That is certainly a horse breeder right. That's why they ultimately creat breeds with that look or color and registries for them. There's now shortage of them. Appoloosa, American Paint, Palomino, even the Friesian has a strict color standard (black) that they like to maintain. And if owning a black horse is someones desire the Friesian would be the breed I would point to.

No one breeds to a Friesian with the hope of getting a champion jumper. Friesians weren't the bred for that. I've never heard of anyone breeding a Friesian to a jumping breed in hopes go getting a champion jumper with some Friesian characteristics. Breeders will use them to introduce certain Friesian traits to their prefered breed, or visa versa, introduce other breed traits to Friesian. But to say that it's not good to breed Friesian blood to jumper, just because you think it will come out as a mutt is about as logical as thinking that breeding good blood to get a certain look or color will always work (it doesn't). Don't care now good your blood lines are. When it works you keep breeding with those offspring to keep the trait and continue breeding those trait holders to hopefully establish it. The ones that fail are excluded. No big secret there. Same system is used for all domestic animals.

You can find a great many incredible offspring from Friesian and jumper cross bloodlines. The breeders intent was not to create a champion jumper with Friesian traits as you seem to think. I dare say that most people who own breeds known for jumping don't always jump them. Just as most people who horses known for working cattle, don't work cattle with them.
There are already plenty of great jumping gaited breeds. Can't imagine any breeder that has used Friesian blood for that purpose. People who want to breed champion jumpers are not going to add a non jumping breed to get improved jumping stock. Breeding for traits is not always about what either horse might be best known for. 
Indeed, the only reason I have Friesian blood in my mares is for more obscure Friesian traits the heavier bone and Friesian personality, but that was all that mattered to me. Their ASB blood line already gave me the incredible gait I wanted. The fact that Saddlebreds are also good jumpers is just extra characteristic of there bloodline, not something that mattered to me. I wanted disposition, bone, gait and size to fit my needs. I got perhaps a bit more height than I wanted with one, but that's ok too. She can carry more.
Can't say what most riders in Slovenia get horses for, but most of the of the riders I know aren't interested in showing. Many like to have a nice looking horse, but the things that tend to be more important is the horses peronality and can the horse do what they require of it. If it can, then it's a lovely horse. You could give me an "ugly" horse and as long as it was reliable, trusting, with a sweet disposition, easy gaits and could carry me and my gear for 50 miles a day for up to 5 consecutive days with ease, then that's a beautiful horse. If I had a national dressage champion that couldn't carry me more than 25 miles a day for at least 3 days without needed a 2 day break, then it's nothing but a pretty (well trained) horse that I'd sell for what I could get, because it's of no real use to me.
There are breeds (e.g. AQH and Mustang) that were Heinz 57 mutts, before a standard was set for them. Someday these Friesian/TB/ASB/AQH/TWH/etc... mutts could become very popular and widely loved, and defended breeds with their own special traits an abilities that people may use improve or create other breeds.

I certainly hope this country never stops it's continuing history of cross breeding to creat improved breeds. We've created quite a few in 300 years (by design or accident).
e.g. Appaloosa, Saddlebred, Standardbred, Morgan, TWH, American Paint, various Mountain Horse breeds, AQH, Florida Cracker, March Tacky, MFT, Mustang, and many more. Even ones created during our early history and have now vanished like the American Horse, and the little Narragansett Pacer (our ultimate foundation breed....I'll brace myself for the Morgan lovers reply to that ) ), which became a breed and then vanished as a breed in the space of about 150 years, but who's heritage continues in the wonderful gaits it passed on to all the many gaited and some non gaited US breeds (via many other cross breedings) and to the Paso breed of our southern neigbors. The Pacer is an excellent example of why cross breeding is a good thing. Look at what mixing various breeds with it's extended offsprings bloodline has given the equine world.


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## mumiinek

its lbs not miles said:


> Yes, it is about having the pretty color.


Yes, it is also about it. Not only.



its lbs not miles said:


> When it works you keep breeding with those offspring to keep the trait and continue breeding those trait holders to hopefully establish it. The ones that fail are excluded. No big secret there. Same system is used for all domestic animals.


Which is exactly the thing I was explaining I have no problems with - controlled or managed or however you call it breeding, which gave us the horses we have now. Yet still I have to repeat myself - Do I like the idea of backyard crossing a thoroughbred with a friesian because someone thinks if you cross any athletic horse with any cool moving horse you always get a cool moving athletic horse? No.

I'm not going to comment on more since to me it seems you're talking about exatly the same as I was but somehow you're trying to differentiate between our opinions and I don't understand that. I came here saying I'm totally for cross breeding if it's controlled, done by people who understand it and it's going to give us some good and functional horses after many people said cross breeding is bad no matter what (I was reacting to them). So you don't have to try to prove to me that cross breeding has a point :wink:


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## Loyalty09

Tungsten is a 4 year old Morgan Friesian. He has an amazing temperment. He is still very young, but I think he will make a great lower level dressage horse. Would I cross this breed intentionally? Probably not, but I, personally, would not be interested in a full Friesian, either way. So it is nice for me to "experience" this breed, to an extent.








This is my sister on him, doesn't she look happy :lol:


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## Loyalty09

Also just wanted to say, I prefer crosses more when they are with breeds that helped with the creation of the stock. Morgans were used in the development of the Friesian. Therefore, I am more okay with this kind of cross breeding.


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## Speed Racer

Loyalty09 said:


> Morgans were used in the development of the Friesian. Therefore, I am more okay with this kind of cross breeding.


How do you figure that? Friesians are an old, Dutch breed and Morgans are an exclusively American breed. 

Friesians were developed in Europe long before Morgans were even considered a breed.


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## Loyalty09

Well I actually meant Friesians were used in development of the Morgan breed. That's what you get for forum-ing during work


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## Speed Racer

I didn't think Friesians were introduced to the US until the 1970s, so I'm not certain they were a part of the original Morgan breed makeup, although I could be wrong about that. Nobody's really sure what breeds made up Justin Morgan's little horse, only that he threw true.


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## Loyalty09

This is what I have always heard:

"Friesian horses were brought to North America by Dutch settlers in the 1600s. These horses likely had an influence on several American breeds, including the Morgan and the Standardbred."

This is from one Friesian site, but I have come across it many other times


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## Loyalty09

And that is true about Figure/Justin Morgan, but is believed there is some Friesian blood there


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## Speed Racer

Interesting! Did not know that.


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## Loyalty09

Yup, but I sometimes think Tungsten is half mule with his big ol ears. 

People mainly say he looks like a giant Morgan!


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## Speed Racer

I had an Arab gelding with humongous ears. Lovely, well put together animal, but he had very large ears, which were especially noticeable on a breed that's known for small ones. I used to tell people he was part mule. :wink:


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## its lbs not miles

Actually it was your statement:
"Do I like the idea of a friesian mare being crossed with a thoroughbred just because somebody wants a jumping horse with cool trot? No." (which is an opinion you are certainly entitled to). I just don't agree, because I've seen the historic results of just that sort of thing. (there will always be the offspring that fail and don't come out right, but that's the price of breeding)

The US has a history of cross breeding for things that we think would be nice. Breeding a TB to a Friesian for it's gait would be just the sort of thing that has lead to many of our existing breeds. 
Case in point: the American Horse (no longer around, but was used, with others, in creating breeds like the Saddlebred, Standardbred, etc...) was a product of breeding the small Naragansett Pacer (jury is still out on the exact breeds that went into it, but they were all small) with the TB. They basically just wanted a TB with a nice gait. The Naragansett Pacer at the time was an extremely popular breed in the colonies because it had an easy gait that made it nice to ride. So someone said "hey I can breed them to a TB and get a big fast horse that has a pleasant gait and can jump higher than my Pacer". Eventual end result was the American Horse. Followed by other people saying "hey, I think we can mix this and get something I like better". Eventually the Morgan, Saddlebred, Standarbred, Mountain Horses (the variety), Pasos, TWH, etc... (the Naragansett Pacer and American Horse disappeared. Replaced by the horses they helped create)

All that, because someone thought they'd cross a Naragansett Pacer to a TB so they could have a bigger, faster, higher jumping horse horse with a nice gait 


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Speed Racer, I'd missed that one

) Thanks for the humor. Wonder how far back in time they transported the Morgan for use in developing the Friesian...1500's? 

They might have gotten it backwards, since it has been thought that there could be Friesian blood in some of the foundation stock for the Morgan. Which, if you look at them, could be the case. I guess someone would have to do DNA testing to make sure.


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## its lbs not miles

Wow, was I behind on this thread. Price I pay for doing this on my break


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## mumiinek

So you're basically saying that everytime someone gets the idea to cross a noriker with an arabian because they want a calm, submissive horse with the floating trot and high tail carriage, it's ok and he should go for it because the result_ may be good_?

I know many Friesian X TB crosses to know that it _may_ work. But I certainly wouldn't advise anybody to cross _some_ TB to _some_ Friesian and then just hope the horse will be usable. I never said crossing TBs with Friesians was a bad idea. But you know what I said, I won't be repeating myself


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## Loyalty09

[/QUOTE]) Thanks for the humor. Wonder how far back in time they transported the Morgan for use in developing the Friesian...1500's?[/QUOTE]

Although, your sarcasm was slightly rude.

[/QUOTE]They might have gotten it backwards, since it has been thought that there could be Friesian blood in some of the foundation stock for the Morgan. Which, if you look at them, could be the case. I guess someone would have to do DNA testing to make sure.[/QUOTE]

That is exactly what I was trying to and did say. You should read everything before you make comments. No hard feelings, just a thought


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## its lbs not miles

As for the Noriker/Arabian cross. If you have taller Arabian and want to add a lot of bulk muscle and heavier bone, then sure. You might get the tail carry, but I'm not sure if there will be enough enfluence to create the trot. You have traits from both breeds, so you take your chances. It's not what I personally might want, but then I imagine there's no shortage of people who don't want a heavier boned ASB like I do. Just as there are people who want to develope lighter versions of some breeds. Just depends on what you want and what might be wanted by enough people. Like the Pacer, that was very popular, but when more popular crosses it generated replaced it the breed went away.
It's like supply and demand. What people want will last. The rest will fade into history and sometimes be forgotten.

No, I won't say breed any horse with any other horse. Even if you were breeding within the same breed. You should use healthy animals with the characteristics you desire. e.g. It would have been stupid for me, wanting the ASB gait, to breed the Friesian stallion to an ASB mare that didn't have that gait. She "might" still pass on the trait, but if she didn't have it, then it would be a bad risk. Of course there's no assurance that she would pass it on 

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 that's why I followed the post with the comment on being behind. Your post came while I was typing, so I had not seen them.
I was pretty sure you had just typoed the influence, but couldn't resist thinking of taking a horse back in time to influence the horse the influenced it 

And yes it is exactly what you already corrected, but I was typing at the time, (hense the "being behind" followup), so what you sent did show up until after I sent. Just as if you're typing now you won't see what I've sent until after you post.


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## Celeste

I heard that Marilyn Monroe wrote a letter to Albert Einstein suggesting that they have a baby together. She said, "The baby could have my looks and your brains!"
He declined the offer. He said, "But what if the baby had my looks and your brains?"


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## its lbs not miles

[Celeste;1164381]I heard that Marilyn Monroe wrote a letter to Albert Einstein suggesting that they have a baby together. She said, "The baby could have my looks and your brains!"
He declined the offer. He said, "But what if the baby had my looks and your brains?"]

 Now that I've almost stopped laughing.

As long as it was a boy. Albert wasn't bad looking as a young man. Just went down hill with age, but that's not uncommon with some academics (tend to not care about appearance....just academia). So it would be a nice looking, but less than brilliant, boy 
Oh, but heaven help if the child was a girl :lol:

But then you never know. My ex in-laws had 3 lovely daughters (yes one of them my ex )....and one that looked like them :lol: (but she is a very sweet person).


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## its lbs not miles

Oh, and I'm so stupid (so what else is new ) ) with regard to breeding an Arbian to a Noriker. I'm sure the point was to bring out the supposed insanity of breeding such a light riding horse to a large draft.

I will concede that on the surface a lot of breeding choices baffle the mind, but I've learned over time that you really don't know what the end result will be. And sometimes the best things can happen from the most odd pairings. Which is why sometimes even none selective breeding produces amazing animals (e.g. the Mustang...natures own "selective" breeding). )

Keep in mind that long ago the Arabian blood line was added to the large horses that are the Percheron we have today. So it's not as crazy at it might appear to breed an Arabian to a draft. Remember, a person can be looking for a specific trait that they want to get into their breed. Like me with the Friesian bone size and attitude. I've just always wished that the Friesian, as a breed, was well suited for what I want, but alas it's not.

Most people on here all see the pluses of cross breeding to end up with something better. I just wanted to point out that while we might not see the logic of some crosses, that doesn't mean they don't serve a purpose to the person that is making them. If they don't work, then the natural laws of selection will take care of the rest. But if they do, well we already see the results in every breed of domestic horse in the world (and I still scratch my head over the Arbian breed in the Percheron). I have a soft spot for the percheron, because as a small boy in Germany I learned to ride on a Percheron (about 17 hands), who was such a wonderful gentle giant (I must have looked so odd astride her) that I gained the confidence to ride anything.

Feel free to do a harsh critique of the largest (and still growing 3 year old) of my poor little Friesian/Saddlebreds that is my avatar. She might not look pretty to some, but she's lovely to me (and I'm so glad she respects my space ) and doesn't run me over).


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## Loyalty09

I think the horse in you avatar is lovely


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## Celeste

With any cross, you run a risk as well as have a great hope that you will get something new. Several factors:
1. Assuming that a horse is homozygous for a trait, in the f1 cross, all dominant traits will be present and therefore expressed in the offspring. (If Albert's nose were a dominant trait and he were homozygous, then all his babies would have big noses.)
2. That may be good if you desire the dominant traits (black color in the Fresian assuming that he was bred to a less dominant color)
3. If you are wishing to get rid of an undesirable trait, it will not happen in the f1 generation if it is a dominant trait (ie Albert nose). You have to breed the f1 to other f1's or other horses until you get offspring that show the recessive trait (Marilyn nose).
4. On the other hand, hybrids have the tendancy to show "hybrid vigor" which is a stronger, healthier cross. (example - that stray cat that lives forever while your $1,000 Persians die...)


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## ah649565

I just bought a project horse who was Amish bred, and a lot of people ask what she is and "friesian sport horse" is usually not their first guess (her sire is Bjorn). I have only had her 5 weeks now and she is looking so much better. She was so under muscled and hardly handled prior to arriving. She has been so easy to work with though, and has a puppy dog personality. She has since learned to stand in cross ties, pick up her feet, stand still for grooming, accept a bit/saddle, and lunges with voice commands. For the price I got her at, I feel like I got the deal of a life time and she is going to be a pretty cool horse once finished (plus she will never have to worry about being sent to auction as long as I am alive and kicking!) Can't wait to watch her fill out and progress in her training.


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## Celeste

Pretty!


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## ah649565

Thank you, she really is the sweetest horse ever. Would I have ever crossed the breeds myself? No, but I would never breed to begin with...there are enough nice horses who need homes out there, my girl happened to be one of them. Here's another picture of her, it was her first time with a saddle on.


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## mumiinek

ah649565 said:


> a lot of people ask what she is and "friesian sport horse" is usually not their first guess


Funny, there's something about her that screams "Friesian!" to me  She looks like a very nice cross, she has that typical curious "I wanna learn more so that I can go and prance around" friesiany look on her face, very sweet horse.


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## SEAmom

I agree. She does have a friesian cross look that I've seen on many crosses.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Goosey

Love her look, definitely has that "friesian" look to her


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## ah649565

I agree with all of you, I think she is very "friesian" looking...I guess most people who see her are not used to crosses, especially a friesian cross (most of the barns horses are pure bred arabs), but once I tell them what she is they see the friesian side, but are more shocked that her mommy was a pure bred tri-colored paint mare


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## Loyalty09

I think she screams Friesian cross. She is lovely. How much feathering does she get? Couldn't tell from the pictures if her hocks had been cut or not.


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## ah649565

Well I only got her on October 1st...she doesn't have much feathering at all. Not sure if her last owner clipped her at so point, but I doubt it. I think they were hoping for her exact build, but wanted spots..personally I like the solid look


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## Gallop On

fuadteagan said:


> I *like* some..... Not all.... I *like like* ones that have *like* around the same build just *like* a different color.* Like* a blanket coat or a pinto coat or something *like* that. I love the black color and everything but if it is a cross I prefer it to be *like* a show-stopping, bold, amazing horse. Here are some examples of some I *like*:::


If you say "Like" one more time I _will_ strangle myself.


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## RedFilly83

This is my Gypsian. Friesian and Gypsy Vanner cross. The best tempered horse I’ve ever been around. Now if only I could find the right saddle to fit her.


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## kewpalace

RedFilly83 said:


> This is my Gypsian. Friesian and Gypsy Vanner cross.


She is lovely @RedFilly83. Love her!!


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## Horsemommy123

@RedFilly83 

She is adorable!!!!


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