# Colorado shooting



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

OMG! I just have no words and really want to cry.... 

12 shot dead at 'Dark Knight Rises' screening in Aurora, Colorado - U.S. News


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## uflrh9y (Jun 29, 2012)

It is very sad indeed.  My heart goes out to all those people who were in that theater.


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## Lakotababii (Nov 28, 2010)

This is so sad :-(

Those poor people, and all those children.. Oh man. My prayers go out to those families.


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## Mike_User (Oct 24, 2006)

Val, I was just headed here to start a thread about the same. I just read about this. What a terrible tragedy! To think, all of those people were just out to see a movie, and many of their lives are over, may end as a result of serious injuries, or may never be the same. :-(


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## Jore (Dec 4, 2010)

Every single time I hear these stories.. I realize how many people, myself included, take life for granted. I heard it on the radio this morning, as well as some other lifeguards at the pool.. and was shocked. I admit, I was wondering what a toddler was doing in a Batman movie.. but nonetheless, it's heartbreaking. I hope that the survivors make it through, both physically and emotionally.

As for the shooter, I hope he gets a life or two in prison.. or death row (if they have it in Colorado).


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## Horsnaround64 (Dec 31, 2011)

Very sad.


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

This is very scary. My 14yo daughter is visiting that area with a school friend and her family and I haven't been able to get in touch with them all morning until now. Talk about a nervous wreck!! She finally called me and said they were all safe and sound and had thought about going to the movie but were too tired WHEW.... talk about things happening or not happening for a reason.

My prayers go out to the families...it is very devastating. I couldn't even imagine what they must be going through!


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## wetrain17 (May 25, 2011)

I can't even begin to express how tragic this is. My heart and prayers go out to the family/friends of everyone involoved.

It is sad that politcians are already turning this event into a way to push for anti gun laws.


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## LetAGrlShowU (Mar 25, 2009)

So very very sad. I am at a loss of words. Watched some of the news casts and couldn't help but tear up. Who would go in and tear gas a movie theater, start shooting randomly and then not put up a fight when the police were there?

Innocent lives, people going to enjoy quality time at a movie- just sickening.


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## eclipseranch (May 31, 2012)

*Blessings to the police officers, medics, docs, nurses, RT's, techs, chaplains, & families who are trying to somehow put the pieces back together in Colorado..we stand united with you in our thoughts & prayers!!*


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

i will never understand people. some people are just so sick. those people will never be able to go see a movie or go to a theater without thinking about this tragedy (for that fact neither will i) prayers going out


on a side note CO is indeed a death penalty state for whoever asked.


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## eclipseranch (May 31, 2012)

Roperchick said:


> i will never understand people. some people are just so sick. those people will never be able to go see a movie or go to a theater without thinking about this tragedy (for that fact neither will i) prayers going out
> 
> 
> on a side note CO is indeed a death penalty state for whoever asked.


yes, unfortunately some people are very,very sick and no one picks up on it until its too late or they stop taking their medication because "they don't need it" in their way of thinking..it is so hard to understand illogical thinking/behavior with a rational logical mind. obviously this guy was intelligent..going to school for a PHD then quitting..probably a sign right there that no one picked up on because people quit school all the time...it is tragic all the way around..so many innocent lives changed or lost..I hope they dismantle the explosives in the apartment soon so no one else gets hurt!


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Roperchick said:


> on a side note CO is indeed a death penalty state for whoever asked.


As mean as it may sound I'm not gonna cry if that'll be the final decision on shooter... I can't imaging getting a call that your son (daughter, mom, dad, wife, husband, you name it) is dead just because some sick individual decided it's time to kill. My prayers and thoughts go to those families...


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

Blessings andd prayets for those in surgery and police officers and lawenforcement. This is horrid. James holmes the shooter needs to pay. I dont care if peiple say tht an eye for an eue makes the world blind. He shot and killed 12 people, 12 innocent people, including a 6 year old girl. She didnt even have a chance. Beyond that 70 INNOCENT people have been injured. 

EVERYONE who has heard about this lives has been altered...


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

It is beyond belief, so so sad, my heart and prayers go out to the victims and their families.

There will probably be a debate about if this guy is sane enough to stand trial, trouble is I can't imagine anyone with a shred of sanity about them would do such a thing.

Oh, and I'm sure that the guy has a mother and family somewhere, I also feel for them, I can't imagine how that feels either.


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## VT Trail Trotters (Jul 21, 2011)

Its a horrible thing what happened! I dont mean to bother anyone with my comment but really if someone, just 1 person had legally carried a firearm there.. it could of been stopped or prevented! This is why people need to be allowed to conceal carry in more places! It stops these things from occurring, im telling the truth it does! This is just horrible what happened and you have to be pretty screwed up to do this!


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## eclipseranch (May 31, 2012)

VT Trail Trotters said:


> Its a horrible thing what happened! I dont mean to bother anyone with my comment but really if someone, just 1 person had legally carried a firearm there.. it could of been stopped or prevented! This is why people need to be allowed to conceal carry in more places! It stops these things from occurring, im telling the truth it does! This is just horrible what happened and you have to be pretty screwed up to do this!


I understand what your point is but unfortunately this guy was super intelligent..he had a bullet proof vest on & threw in tear gas to a darkened movie theater during a gun fire scene in a movie..honestly someone armed probably would not have stopped him..and potentially could have hurt someone else trying


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

i pity his family that they are going though this. but i also question...whas there behavior leading up to this? is he just some fanatic that felt he needed to make a point or some religious nut...what happened? was there a way for this to have been prevented...so many questions that there may never be answers to.

prayers for all the families and the civilians/military persons injured. and for the mans family as well.

does he deserve the death penalty? theres so many variables.
if hes just some sicko who gets off on killing yes.
if hes some fanatic that wanted to make a point have a grand show whatever yes and no. i kinda think it would be fit punishment to give him life and make him live with the fact that he killed 12 people, and ruined multiple families lives.
if hes mentally sick, nees medication, yes imprison him but get him on medication


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

VT Trail Trotters said:


> Its a horrible thing what happened! I dont mean to bother anyone with my comment but really if someone, just 1 person had legally carried a firearm there.. it could of been stopped or prevented! This is why people need to be allowed to conceal carry in more places! It stops these things from occurring, im telling the truth it does! This is just horrible what happened and you have to be pretty screwed up to do this!


With tear gas involved, not to mention the dark theater, this probably would have just complicated things. Can you imagine taking out a concealed weapon and trying to shoot at the killer in that sort of panic? Chances are another innocent would get hurt. 
Problem is it doesn't matter about the laws when it comes to this sort of insanity - its not like the shooter would have thought "oh shoot carrying a concealed weapon is illegal, guess I won't go after all..." no - they don't care about laws like that. 
Correct me if I'm wrong... I read that it actually costs taxpayers more to put a criminal to death than to keep them locked up for life..?

Anyhow. My heart goes out to anyone influenced by such a heinous act.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

Vt: my dad has the concealed weapons permit thing.. The type of gun that he hasnt wasnt even legal for any citizen there saying ober here i giess. Yeah i agree could have been over in some cases but he was wearing neck. Leg and bullet proof vests...


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

Sorry for bad spelling on a phone here lol


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

eclipseranch said:


> I understand what your point is but unfortunately this guy was super intelligent..he had a bullet proof vest on & threw in tear gas to a darkened movie theater during a gun fire scene in a movie..honestly someone armed probably would not have stopped him..


Which means it was all well-planned, so I doubt he'll fall under "the crazy moment of depression" category.

JDI, I'm not sure about the cost of putting such individual down vs keeping him confined, but from what I read keeping such people in prison is very expensive in general.


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

VT ever been hit by tear gas or CS? not fun, those people in there wouldve been incapacitated. if they did have the presence of mind they wouldnt be able to see with the gas in their eyes, or breath and be steady with it in their lungs (take it from somebody who gos through the CS chamber every year)

the cops couldnt even get in the theater until somebody brought them masks so a concealed weapon in that mix wouldve probably make things worse...

not that having concealed is bad. both my parents have one and im getting mine when i get out.

the best thing to do in that situation if the man was shooting at people trying to escape is to cover your face as best as possible and to hide.


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## JoesMom (Jun 19, 2012)

More news to think about: his apartment is booby trapped in such a way as to kill many more people if it had been triggered. Just the kind of person the death penalty was set up to accommodate. We were talking about having a couple of conceal carry people in the theater may have made a difference in how many were killed. Supposition is useless though and makes no difference in the final outcome.

So sorry for all those families who are thrust into this tragedy. Prayers go out to them.


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

And from what they say he was/ is very intelligent he booby trapped his his apartment so well it could take a week for them to get into it.. He should not fall under the "insane" catagory.. 
only the death row catagory.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

He's not crazy, he's _evil_. Very much different than someone just having a psychotic moment and randomly picking out people to shoot. This was PLANNED. Total premeditation.


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## eclipseranch (May 31, 2012)

kitten_Val said:


> Which means it was all well-planned, so I doubt he'll fall under "the crazy moment of depression" category.
> 
> JDI, I'm not sure about the cost of putting such individual down vs keeping him confined, but from what I read keeping such people in prison is very expensive in general.


oh you bet it was well planned, unfortunately, that doesn't rule out legally insane though but def not a "moment thing"
and I don't have any idea about cost but those folks on death row stay there sometimes years waiting for the event and many times legal stuff..heck we have had them in the ICU for treatment of life threatening medical situations..now that's our many times messed up system!
Barrelbeginner ... intelligence does not negate insanity as so well portrayed in the movie Silence of the Lambs

as said so many times keep those families in your thoughts & prayers..they are probably still in shock


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

im not defending the guy. obviously hes a first class *******. but why did he plan it? does he just get off on killing people, is he some kind of god for bid i use this word "terrorist" some religious nut that thought these people deserved to die? 
why did he plan it out in the first place?

im going for some sicko that gets off on killing people


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

So horrible that this happened. I can't imagine what the victims and their families are going through. 
What was that guy thinking? Cray cray.



Golden Horse said:


> Oh, and I'm sure that the guy has a mother and family somewhere, I also feel for them, I can't imagine how that feels either.


I read somewhere that when his mom got the call about what he had done, she said that it didn't surprise her... :/
My heart goes out to them, I can't imagine knowing that you contributed to raising a child that would end up doing something like that. Even if there were no signs at all(which is sounds like there were signs), I would still feel so guilty for missing _something_.


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

Still i dont think he was insane. Hes in college for medical health. Did great in school. Just dont think he was crazy..


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## MissKriss (Feb 22, 2012)

Did anyone see that interview with one of the witnesses who mentioned they saw one of the guys that was sitting next to him, got up and pretended to take a phone call while walking to the emergency exit and proped it open for a little bit. And strange how that gunman came flying threw that same emergency exit that guy proped open..... crazy!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

he was getting a degree but he dropped out if i read correctly so something went wrong at some point for him to just drop omething promising like that..so its quite possible. idk i just hope somebody can get to the truth of it all for nothing else then to give the families some understanding...

i knowpersonally that if something like this happened to me i wouldnt be able to function until i got to the reasoning, however disturbing it may be.


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

I knew someone els was involved!! How would he have walked in the front with guns..??


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## MissKriss (Feb 22, 2012)

Who knows if it was the gunman to begin with since the theater is dark. The witness (if i remember correctly) stated that after the guy on the phone went to the emergency exit, he disappeared.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

^^oh some peoples nerves..


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

That's the trouble with sanity or insanity, so difficult to decide, and the victims are just as dead, or traumatized, their families are just as wrecked however his state of mind is judged.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Wallaby said:


> My heart goes out to them, I can't imagine knowing that you contributed to raising a child that would end up doing something like that. Even if there were no signs at all(which is sounds like there were signs), I would still feel so guilty for missing _something_.


This, totally, and although there where maybe signs that something was wrong, maybe there where no signs that things were that wrong!


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

.

Legally Insane or Not, people are dead.

The Insanity plea is a cop-out..... putting someone in a mental ward for 5-10 years and giving them drugs then letting them back on the street one day does not negate the fact he Murdered people.


As far as Death Row vs Life Imprisonment

Most studies show a cost of 1 million dollars to keep and execute someone on Death Row for 10 years.

Most studies also show it costs 1 million dollars to keep someone in prison for 50 years.

Maybe leave him in a small 4x8 cell for 50 years, that is if he lasted that long.

With this many witnesses, a quick trial and a next day Hanging should be in order.

Nowadays the punishment never fits the crime.

My heart goes out to the families of the victims



.


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

according to the updates in the news
He dyed his hair orange and called himself the Joker
Also he purchased a ticket and entered as part of the crowd

the man that apparently took a call and went to the emergency exit was him. 
as of now they still have not entered his apartment.


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## VT Trail Trotters (Jul 21, 2011)

eclipseranch said:


> I understand what your point is but unfortunately this guy was super intelligent..he had a bullet proof vest on & threw in tear gas to a darkened movie theater during a gun fire scene in a movie..honestly someone armed probably would not have stopped him..and potentially could have hurt someone else trying


I later found out he did,and yes thats very true.



JustDressageIt said:


> With tear gas involved, not to mention the dark theater, this probably would have just complicated things. Can you imagine taking out a concealed weapon and trying to shoot at the killer in that sort of panic? Chances are another innocent would get hurt.
> Problem is it doesn't matter about the laws when it comes to this sort of insanity - its not like the shooter would have thought "oh shoot carrying a concealed weapon is illegal, guess I won't go after all..." no - they don't care about laws like that.
> Correct me if I'm wrong... I read that it actually costs taxpayers more to put a criminal to death than to keep them locked up for life..?
> 
> ...


Yeah sadly its true... and i dont know if it does or not, im sure theres a thing around that says if it is. I dont see how it would though, considering how much it costs to keep a single prisoner VS putting them to death. And a little random thing, he broke 3 laws, murder, carrying a concealed weapon into the movies is illegal in CO, and then there was some other things, i dont remember but someone pointed it out. So murder is a major offense... other things are gonna add on to it. 


barrelbeginner said:


> Vt: my dad has the concealed weapons permit thing.. The type of gun that he hasnt wasnt even legal for any citizen there saying ober here i giess. Yeah i agree could have been over in some cases but he was wearing neck. Leg and bullet proof vests...


If the gun itself wasnt legal, hes just adding things to his case that are gonna make it worse for him! I really dont care he is, he freaking shot 14 people!



Roperchick said:


> VT ever been hit by tear gas or CS? not fun, those people in there wouldve been incapacitated. if they did have the presence of mind they wouldnt be able to see with the gas in their eyes, or breath and be steady with it in their lungs (take it from somebody who gos through the CS chamber every year)
> 
> the cops couldnt even get in the theater until somebody brought them masks so a concealed weapon in that mix wouldve probably make things worse...
> 
> ...


Whats CS? Ive gotten pepper spray in my eyes... cause of the wind. I understanding and ill agree 100% to it. I guess different situations call for different things you can do... this one you couldnt do much except try to get out of there.


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## VT Trail Trotters (Jul 21, 2011)

SouthernTrailsGA said:


> .
> 
> Legally Insane or Not, people are dead.
> 
> ...


Trails, for your top part i was trying to tell someone that yesterday but i couldnt word it... when it comes to murder putting someone in a looney bin for a good while aint gonna cut it. If theres death of people involved in the event that occurred and the person _meant _to kill people... **** it throw them in prison! If you try to kill someone but dont or they get seriously injured... debatable but yeah prison for a few years would be supplemental to them.


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

CS gas is basically tear gas...its what police use in riots to incapacitate people. 

Effects:
The chemical reacts with moisture on the skin and in the eyes, causing a burning sensation and the immediate forceful and uncontrollable shutting of the eyes. Effects usually include tears streaming from the eyes, profuse coughing, exceptional nasal discharge that is full of mucus, burning in the eyes, eyelids, nose and throat areas, disorientation, dizziness and restricted breathing. It will also burn the skin where sweaty and or sunburned. In highly concentrated doses it can also induce severe coughing and vomiting. Almost all of the immediate effects wear off within an hour (such as exceptional nasal discharge and profuse coughing), although the feeling of burning and highly irritated skin may persist for hours.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

I have been through exposure training with CN gas, CS gas and pepper spray. CN, no big deal for me, CS, a little worse, Pepper, the worst, IMO. You can get pepper grenades that would have been really bad in a closed environment like a theater. I haven't heard if it was CN or CS gas.

As for sanity? Well, there are so many "levels" of sanity that the legal definition is almost impossible to gauge. The bottom line here is....do you want them to be allowed back into society? If he was medically dependent on meds for his "sanity", it is hard to decide if he could ever be trusted to remain on the meds needed to keep him safe. With the drastic cutbacks in mental health facilities, many like him are very poorly monitored, even once detected.

What I wish our country would not do is make such a celebrity of these sick people. So many just want all of the attention and revel when they get it. If our media would refuse to give anything more than the basics of the situation, and would not give the suspect all of this limelight, we might see a decrease of these "attention seekers".


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

Im guessing it was CN. CS imo would have had most people on the floor coughing their lungs out. sounded like most of them were able to function and try to get everybody out so im guessing it was the more mild stuff.


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## VT Trail Trotters (Jul 21, 2011)

Roperchick said:


> CS gas is basically tear gas...its what police use in riots to incapacitate people.
> 
> Effects:
> The chemical reacts with moisture on the skin and in the eyes, causing a burning sensation and the immediate forceful and uncontrollable shutting of the eyes. Effects usually include tears streaming from the eyes, profuse coughing, exceptional nasal discharge that is full of mucus, burning in the eyes, eyelids, nose and throat areas, disorientation, dizziness and restricted breathing. It will also burn the skin where sweaty and or sunburned. In highly concentrated doses it can also induce severe coughing and vomiting. Almost all of the immediate effects wear off within an hour (such as exceptional nasal discharge and profuse coughing), although the feeling of burning and highly irritated skin may persist for hours.


Ohh, yeah thats serious stuff... ive seen people get sprayed with some potent peppery spray or something and yeah they were doing bad. 



Allison Finch said:


> I have been through exposure training with CN gas, CS gas and pepper spray. CN, no big deal for me, CS, a little worse, Pepper, the worst, IMO. You can get pepper grenades that would have been really bad in a closed environment like a theater. I haven't heard if it was CN or CS gas.
> 
> As for sanity? Well, there are so many "levels" of sanity that the legal definition is almost impossible to gauge. The bottom line here is....do you want them to be allowed back into society? If he was medically dependent on meds for his "sanity", it is hard to decide if he could ever be trusted to remain on the meds needed to keep him safe. With the drastic cutbacks in mental health facilities, many like him are very poorly monitored, even once detected.
> 
> What I wish our country would not do is make such a celebrity of these sick people. So many just want all of the attention and revel when they get it. If our media would refuse to give anything more than the basics of the situation, and would not give the suspect all of this limelight, we might see a decrease of these "attention seekers".


Very good point Allison, like him... yeah i dont want him in society if he did that. Me okay im not 100% okay... i got mental issues, nothing like im gonna beat the crap outta someone randomly. But yeah, and with him and people like that they may decide to stop taking meds or just skip out on it. Now in your second things thats very true too! They want to be known and the media does that... they make them a big shot and everyone knows who they are. Heck this guy dyed his hair orange i hear and called himself the "Joker". Just adds the insanity of this!


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## possumhollow (Apr 19, 2012)

His lawyers will most likely try for a dis-associative disorder, schizophrenia, delusions, borderline personality disorder, or sociopath personality defense to prove not guilty by reason of insanity. Most murder cases that go into a mental institution never see the light of day again because most of them can be tried for the crimes once the doctors say he's sane enough to get out of the nut hut.

No, a mental institution isn't the place for him. He doesn't need video games, satellite radio, cable tv, catered meals, and on demand drugs. Neither does he need the opportunity to hurt the employees of wherever he's put. 

What he does need, in my opinion is a .50 bullet in the brain pan and some dirt scratched over him. I don't believe in putting someone on death row and letting them sit at OUR expense for 15+ years while the blessed bunny huggers pull out all the stops to free him.

Yeah, just a little angry.


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## VT Trail Trotters (Jul 21, 2011)

possumhollow said:


> His lawyers will most likely try for a dis-associative disorder, schizophrenia, delusions, borderline personality disorder, or sociopath personality defense to prove not guilty by reason of insanity. Most murder cases that go into a mental institution never see the light of day again because most of them can be tried for the crimes once the doctors say he's sane enough to get out of the nut hut.
> 
> No, a mental institution isn't the place for him. He doesn't need video games, satellite radio, cable tv, catered meals, and on demand drugs. Neither does he need the opportunity to hurt the employees of wherever he's put.
> 
> ...


Ill agree with you there, Possum. They just try to sent them to the looney bin and yeah with him... no. And death row, if the crime is serious enough like this one COULD be... send em there. If you gun down 14 people including children, youre screwed.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Roperchick said:


> according to the updates in the news
> He dyed his hair orange and called himself the Joker



This. THIS. THIS! 

Why the hell would police tell the public this?! I mean come on..
First it's a guy in a gas mask and bullet proof vests, etc. Then he's booby trapped his car (which ended up being false) and then his apartment (true) and now he's... supposedly trying to tell us he's the Joker?! I don't think so. I think someone is looking for celebrity/remembrance status.

Like I said on my FB, if this didn't happen in the theater showing the premiere of Batman but instead in a shopping mall during Christmas.. would he have claimed he was "Santa Claus" going after the naughty children!? I mean come on. 

He was getting a phD, he just dropped out and then ordered all this ammunition (I read this on the VAST news reports) from the internet and then bought a bunch of guns from the metro area. 

I'm sure that something happened that made the phD not worth pursuing. Maybe he was bored. I honestly don't give a fudge. But the fact that he is being trumped up to celebrity status, that this whole tragic event is being linked to batman.. is very heart breaking. 

Take it as it is. Psycho guns people down, he was a coward for wearing a bullet proof vest. Crazy people DO NOT PLAN LIKE THAT. He shot down people in the dark, where there was a giant mass of people who couldn't run away. It was so sad, so very sad. 

If the emergency door wasn't propped open then it would have been a lot different in my eyes.

But regardless, the dead deserve respect. The wounded deserve respect and help. The shooter does NOT deserve some stupid publicity and attention.


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## possumhollow (Apr 19, 2012)

From years of working in a nut house Sky, I can tell you that high functioning crazies can, will and do plan out what they do extensively and deliberately. One guy there had notebooks full of plans on how he was going to 'deal' with his wife, who had had him committed for his illness.

You will find exceptionally intelligent people in a mental institution, there is a very common misconception that all crazies are of lower intelligence. Some of them and this guy sounds like one of them are so smart it's scary.

The ones that act impulsively are the ones you can usually defend yourself against, it's the ones that have the intelligence to think things through to the last detail that will hurt you before you know it.


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

IMO they need to just drop the whole Batman/Joker thing...it doesnt matter.

what matters is getting the families of the people killed, and the others injured the help and support they need.

they post all these black ribbon pics on FB with batman and its not about BATMAN! its not about "JOKER" its about some sick evil bast**d behind bars, preferably with a needle in his arm, for killing these people.

i agree with sky. people are too focused on the ICONS represented here. not the innocents in the crossfire.

I couldnt care less if the guy had run up front buck nakid painted purple and green, calling himself Barney. would that have made him less of a monster? should they then have Lamchop go to the hospital to cheer the kids up?
no. 

do a fundraiser to get money for hospital bills, and funeral bills for the families. but dont bring batman and joker, or any celebrity into it...then your just feeding this maniacs crazy.


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## Horse Poor (Aug 20, 2008)

Colorado suspect was brilliant science student - Yahoo! News

Excerpt:

"Holmes enrolled last year in a neuroscience Ph.D. program at the University of Colorado-Denver but was in the process of withdrawing, said school officials, who didn't provide a reason. The school later said in a statement that he left the program in June 2012.

As part of the advanced program in Denver, a James Holmes had been listed as making a presentation in May about Micro DNA Biomarkers in a class named "Biological Basis of Psychiatric and Neurological Disorders."

In academic achievement, "he was at the top of the top," recalled Riverside Chancellor Timothy P. White.

Holmes concentrated his study on "how we all behave," White added. "It's ironic and sad.""


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## eclipseranch (May 31, 2012)

just heard on the news that at least 3 guys died shielding & keeping ladies safe..true heroes..IMO!!


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

Yes very heroic people sad that this happened... Colorado is a death penalty state amd he needs it. I just dont think he should even be able to sit and wait for it for ten years.. I dont wanna be paying for this lowlife...i think
i think they should just let him go.. Wanna know why.. Someone in there rigt mind will just shoot him.


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## Lakotababii (Nov 28, 2010)

Skyseternalangel said:


> This. THIS. THIS!
> 
> Why the hell would police tell the public this?! I mean come on..
> First it's a guy in a gas mask and bullet proof vests, etc. Then he's booby trapped his car (which ended up being false) and then his apartment (true) and now he's... supposedly trying to tell us he's the Joker?! I don't think so. I think someone is looking for celebrity/remembrance status.
> ...



I agree with you Sky, but unfortunately, the attention is EXACTLY what he wants.

If he were depressed, or trying to prove a point, or doing it for a cause, or something like that, then he wouldn't have had on a bullet proof vest. Those "crazies" that do things like this don't care if they die doing it. He obviously did not want to die. He wanted to torture and kill, but not die doing it. He wants the fame for it, and he wants to see the damage he did. He is getting exactly what he wanted. He did not deny that he did it, he practically gave himself up afterwards. 

Honestly if you think about it, this was very well played. He did what he set out to do, survived it, got all sorts of news coverage, and is now seen as a celebrity. Everyone knows his name, even if its a bad association.

That's obviously what he wanted, and now he's getting it, thanks to the media.


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## eclipseranch (May 31, 2012)

Lakotababii said:


> I agree with you Sky, but unfortunately, the attention is EXACTLY what he wants
> 
> Honestly if you think about it, this was very well played. He did what he set out to do, survived it, got all sorts of news coverage, and is now seen as a celebrity. Everyone knows his name, even if its a bad association.
> 
> That's obviously what he wanted, and now he's getting it, thanks to the media.


quite honestly, it is impossible for us to know what he "wanted" you can not possibly think like a delusional person...they live in the world in their mind..I'm sure more details will come out over time as they are made available to the public. I am sure that his defense team will try the insanity plea. However, the "legal" def of insanity is diff than the "medical" def. They have to prove that he doesn't know right from wrong...by virtue of psychiatric evals, treatment, etc, I do totally understand the "get attention thing"..it is easy to think that but I have also met delusional folks who truly believe that they are Jesus Christ & Abraham Lincoln....so till professionals can "get in side his head" we won't even begin to know "his" motives.
My heart & prayers continue to go out to the families of those affected..it will be a long time if ever for them to heal!!


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

i dont think he should get the death penalty. i hope he has to rot in jail for the rest of his life and think about what hes done.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Trouble is this guy would probably sit and glory in it for the rest of his days, rather than sitting and repenting


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## wetrain17 (May 25, 2011)

gypsygirl said:


> i dont think he should get the death penalty. i hope he has to rot in jail for the rest of his life and think about what hes done.


 
I do not feel like paying for him to get a roof over his head, medical attention, and 3 meals a day.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

^^ it actually costs more to kill a man than to pay for him to eat til he dies.


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## eclipseranch (May 31, 2012)

gypsygirl said:


> i dont think he should get the death penalty. i hope he has to rot in jail for the rest of his life and think about what hes done.


that would mean he has a conscience to know it was wrong..looking at the images this morning in court...very eerie he looked disconnected, confused. perhaps even heavily medicated just very eerie


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

gypsygirl said:


> ^^ it actually costs more to kill a man than to pay for him to eat til he dies.


Pish, just put him with the general population of the prison for 5 minutes. Won't need to worry about feeding OR executing him on the taxpayer's dime.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Speed Racer said:


> Pish, just put him with the general population of the prison for 5 minutes. Won't need to worry about feeding OR executing him on the taxpayer's dime.


Yeah, from what I've heard the "general population" very much dislike such people (as well as sexual offenders, especially kid offenders).


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

gypsygirl said:


> ^^ it actually costs more to kill a man than to pay for him to eat til he dies.


 disagree.. are you sure that is true here in Co.. It costs around 700,000 a YEAR to keep a person in person.. heck,, a free way to get him executed.. let him go sit in jail with the rest of the criminals...they are keeping him in a special cell( cant think right now) because they say if they let him out with the rest of the jailed people that he would get killed.. he deserves it.. i say let him in there with them..And a little info i heard today on louis and floorwax. In 2010 400,000 assualt type guns were bought. In the US there was around 7500 shootings using assualt type guns... ONLY 23 of those 7500 guns that had to do with those shootings were purchased LEGALLY!.... putting a ban on these types of guns is sure not going to stop people from shooting people with them.. CRIMINALS would just buy them on the BlackMarket.Also, people are saying that someone with a concealed weapons permit couldn't have done anything to stop this creep from doing what he could of because of the protection that he was wearing. Say someone noticed him coming in with a gun about to shoot people and did have the permit. EVEN if he is wearing a bullet RESISTANT vest being hit with 5 or 6 rounds is going to distract him. AND PROVEN... if you shoot someone with a restistant vest on right where that heart is with 3200 pounds of pressure per second( depending on the type of gun) its known to have stopped a heart..


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

eclipseranch said:


> I understand what your point is but unfortunately this guy was super intelligent..he had a bullet proof vest on


 even though he has a resistant vest on could have bought time. and people could see him because he was, from what i heard on the news, standing at the front near the screen and could see the outline of him.. if someone had carried a gun he MIGHT have re-thought and been like"holy cow! someone in here has a gun." and you can still get injured with the vest he was wearing.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

i found this article, its from 2007 but it has some good info in it.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/COcosttestimony.pdf

i dont have time to look any further this minute, but i will try to later.


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## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

I'm surprised at how many of you "civilized" people want someone else to murder him. Turn him into the general population? Let them deal with him? Why ruin more lives? I'm not worried about him. But if they were to do that, and he WAS killed, what about the families of the next murderers? How many more lives should be ruined? "Daddy went to prison for possession of a controlled substance, now he's a murderer". I think he should be put to death, unless that's what he wants. I saw someone refer to the bible verse about an "eye for an eye". That may be the most misquoted scripture in the world. The only exception being "judge not lest ye be judged". An "eye for an eye" wasn't a commandment for revenge. It was a commandment for justice. It was saying that punishments should fit the crime. IE: someone shouldn't be put to death for stealing.


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

disagree completely with you.^^:/ he deserves to be killed.. i think who ever would be to "murder" him should get an award..

-are those your kids in the photo above? what if it was your child that got shot at the movie theater.. bet you wouldn't be saying that then.. bet you'd wanna be the one choking him to death


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

and obviously no one said he STOLE???? he KILLED>> there for he should be killed


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Bearkiller said:


> I'm surprised at how many of you "civilized" people want someone else to murder him.


Not saying I WANT anything, just stating a fact. The general population of the prison where he's currently incarcerated has already made death threats against him.

Jeffrey Dahmer received a life sentence because Wisconsin isn't a death penalty state, and another convicted murderer decided to do him in. How did that 'ruin' his life? He was never getting out anyway, and one more life sentence wasn't going to make a difference to him.

_Those_ are the types of people who will take out the Aurora shooter, not someone in for nonviolent crimes. Men who have nothing else to lose will be the ones to kill him, not someone who has the slightest chance at parole.


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## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

barrelbeginner said:


> disagree completely with you.^^:/ he deserves to be killed.. i think who ever would be to "murder" him should get an award..
> 
> -are those your kids in the photo above? what if it was your child that got shot at the movie theater.. bet you wouldn't be saying that then.. bet you'd wanna be the one choking him to death


 
I said he should be put to death, unless he wants it. Like Timothy Mcveigh, he shouldn't have been executed because that's what he wanted. My children wouldn't have/won't be A: been herded into a crowded theater at midnight like mindless sheep (unless they choose to as an adult). B: If they WERE at a movie theater, their parents would be armed. I HAVE been through a gas chamber with CS gas and exposed to tear gas. I know for a fact I could shoot good enough to slow down someone who (obviously) didn't want to be killed. All of this hyperbole about tear gas and no one could have stopped him, even if they did have a gun, is baseless BS. No one knows. But I know that this guy surrendered to police. He didn't shoot them. I also know that body armor can be penetrated. Look at all of our soldiers who are killed while wearing it. Don't buy the media hype. But, you're right. If it *were* my kids, I'd want to be the one choking the life out of him. I wouldn't, however, want some stranger in prison doing it. I am not into vigilante justice. We have a system. It works very efficiently. I am positive this guy will never walk the streets again, one way or another. Look at the guy in Norway. He killed WAY more people. He may be FREE in as little as 11 years. That's not a good system.



barrelbeginner said:


> and obviously no one said he STOLE???? he KILLED>> there for he should be killed


 
I wasn't saying otherwise. Use your thinking cap before your keyboard. :lol:I was pointing to a frequently misquoted bible verse. I believe the death penalty is fitting in this case. I plainly stated I think he should be put to death.


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## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

Speed Racer said:


> Not saying I WANT anything, just stating a fact. The general population of the prison where he's currently incarcerated has already made death threats against him.
> 
> Jeffrey Dahmer received a life sentence because Wisconsin isn't a death penalty state, and another convicted murderer decided to do him in. How did that 'ruin' his life? He was never getting out anyway, and one more life sentence wasn't going to make a difference to him.
> 
> _Those_ are the types of people who will take out the Aurora shooter, not someone in for nonviolent crimes. Men who have nothing else to lose will be the ones to kill him, not someone who has the slightest chance at parole.


 
Again, I think he should be put to death. But I fail to see how that scenario is a good one. I know about Jeffrey Dahmer. He got what he had coming. I have no pity on him or this guy. However, our system is better than that. We don't need our PRISONERS handing out justice. Just sayin'.....


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Bearkiller, you're contradicting yourself. You say you don't believe in vigilante justice, yet you would have willingly shot at him had you been in that theater? How is that NOT vigilante justice?

If you don't believe in it, then you don't take matters into your own hands. You let the peace officers, prisons, and the justice system make the decisions.


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

Bearkiller said:


> . If it *were* my kids, I'd want to be the one choking the life out of him. I wouldn't, however, want some stranger in prison doing it.


 did you know the guy? your pretty much a stranger as well what's the difference


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## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

Speed Racer said:


> Bearkiller, you're contradicting yourself. You say you don't believe in vigilante justice, yet you would have willingly shot at him had you been in that theater? How is that NOT vigilante justice?
> 
> If you don't believe in it, then you don't take matters into your own hands. You let the peace officers, prisons, and the justice system make the decisions.


 
Really? You can't see the difference between vigilante justice and self defense? Oh, what it must be like to lack critical thinking skills.........

Okay, for a lesson, shooting him may have saved other peoples lives. Vigilante justice would be walking up and shooting him after he was in handcuffs or otherwise detained. You see no difference????? Really????


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

nope see no difference people were in a movie.. enjoying it not thinking it was going to happen.. and it happened; he deserves to be tied up and "stoned" to death.. hey i would go throw rocks at him


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## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

barrelbeginner said:


> did you know the guy? your pretty much a stranger as well what's the difference


 
Again, use your thinking cap. I said I'd *want* to be. I never said I would commit murder. It would be murder. Maybe the word stranger wasn't the right one. However, "prisoner" seemed redundant. "Random person" may have been a better phrase. My point is that we have an effective system and this person will never again see the light of day. I am certain of that. We don't need people taking action into their own hands, literally. We are a country of laws and rules. They need to be followed for everyone......


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## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

barrelbeginner said:


> nope see no difference people were in a movie.. enjoying it not thinking it was going to happen.. and it happened; he deserves to be tied up and "stoned" to death.. hey i would go throw rocks at him


 

If that were the way our laws were set up, I'd probably need tommy john surgery after the stoning. It's not and that's not what people were talking about doing. People were saying that prisoners should murder him. I don't agree.


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

We are a country of laws and rules. They need to be followed for everyone......

yupp.. everyone; and i dont care what the LAW is.. Im 15 years old and I sure as heck would do something about this creep if someone in my family had been one of those victims sorry but i actually care about my family.. If a family member of mine died. and he got to live, in prison for the rest of his life doing nothing, getting 3 warm meals a day, and my family member was 6 feet under.. huh.. see the difference?


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

Bearkiller said:


> If that were the way our laws were set up, I'd probably need tommy john surgery after the stoning. It's not and that's not what people were talking about doing. People were saying that prisoners should murder him. I don't agree.


WRONG people were saying if he was put in the general Population of the prisoners.. that he WOULD be killed


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Bearkiller said:


> My children wouldn't have/won't be A: been herded into a crowded theater at midnight like mindless sheep (unless they choose to as an adult). B: If they WERE at a movie theater, their parents would be armed.


First of all, never say never. Noone knows the future. Second, it could of happen in middle of the day (remember the Columbine here, blast in airport in Russia, etc.? And I can keep going... are those killed in mid of the day not in theater also mindless sheep? I personally find what you said to be very offensive towards those who lost the family members there (or were injured) ). 

I do think it's a good idea of the officials to talk to the families of the victims to see how they want to proceed. And I do think some murders get away after what they've done thanks to the good lawyers and system (not saying all though). As for keeping him alive for years, again who knows what can happen in a system and may be he'll be out at some point. We don't know the future.


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

I think its a great idea to talk to the survivors and ask what there opinion is about this creep


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## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

kitten_Val said:


> First of all, never say never. Noone knows the future. Second, it could of happen in middle of the day (remember the Columbine here, blast in airport in Russia, etc.? And I can keep going... are those killed in mid of the day not in theater also mindless sheep? I personally find what you said to be very offensive towards those who lost the family members there (or were injured) ).


Point taken. I wasn't meaning it in an offensive way. It's no ones fault but this evil mans. I didn't mean otherwise. Someone just brought my children into it and I was just pointing how it would have been different. But my kids wouldn't have been at that movie to begin with. My kids aren't allowed to watch movies like that. I should have left it at that. 





kitten_Val said:


> I do think it's a good idea of the officials to talk to the families of the victims to see how they want to proceed. And I do think some murders get away after what they've done thanks to the good lawyers and system (not saying all though). As for keeping him alive for years, again who knows what can happen in a system and may be he'll be out at some point. We don't know the future.


 
I agree, as long as it is within the law.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

HORRIBLE!! I'm sending prayers to the families of the victims. The reason that there were toddlers in the theater is that some people can't afford the sitter AND the tickets, so they take their kids, who will probably sleep through most movies, anyway.
SOOOOO much talking and analysis. I think the police are right in holding back information. The only interesting thing is HOW the police caught this guy. One of the officers spotted him in SWAT gear, that he'd bought at the site that CO officers buy their own equipment. However, there were 2 pieces, one at the neck and one at the groin, that the officers are issued but don't wear bc they're uncomfortable, and HE was wearing both while leaning on his car watching the pandmoneum he had just caused. Hats off to the good guys who were diligent and paying attention to details!!!


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

yes from what he was wearing and what i heard the thing that they saw THE ONLY DIFFERENCE NOTICABLE was his gasmask was different.. so if police werent paying attention the guy could have acted like a SWAT member.. good thing he didnt..


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

did you read the atricle barrelbeginner ?


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

no sorry.. why? ive been watching the news for the past 3 or 4 days..


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

i posted an article a couple pages back for you to read about costs.


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## wetrain17 (May 25, 2011)

Isn't CO ranked #3 for the states with the most surveillance cameras? Why is there no talk about him being seen at his car arming himself or walking back in?


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

^^ dude!!! i never thought about that... but it was dark out... but still..


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## wetrain17 (May 25, 2011)

Im sure there are lights in the parking lot.


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

thats true.. i bet that they are just leaving that out of the news and what not.. maybe.. maybe not..


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## wetrain17 (May 25, 2011)

Has anyone seen his mug shot? Not the picture that is his college ID, but an actual mug shot?


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

no the only thing i saw was the 'pre trail' on the news yesterday.. creepy orange hair:0


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## wetrain17 (May 25, 2011)

hmmmm. interesting.


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## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

What are you implying wetrain? A conspiracy?


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## wetrain17 (May 25, 2011)

I would hope not, but it just seems like too much is being kept hidden. No mention of surveillance footage, no mug shot, police kept his mask now when he was arrested, and a sealed trial.


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

^^ a sealed trial? media cameras are allowed in the trial rooms or what not..


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## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

Maybe they just want a clean investigation with no mistakes. I thought maybe you had some sort of juicy tidbit for us...........


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

i bet they just aren't letting all the information out yet for some reason.. at the end of the whole thing i bet we STILL won't know everything..


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

With this being such a huge deal, i wouldnt be suprised that theyre trying to keep it low key....you have alot of very very ****ed off angry americans that are ready to take this guy out to the woods for some private conversation. so im not suprised that theyre keeping some stuff hush hush till all this is over and hes either in a very dark cell somewhere where hell never se the light of day or until they make the decision to put the needle in his arm.


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

^ couldn't agree more love every wording lol


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## wetrain17 (May 25, 2011)

barrelbeginner said:


> i bet they just aren't letting all the information out yet for some reason.. at the end of the whole thing i bet we STILL won't know everything..


 
That usual happens when they try to hide something

It just doesn't add up to me, that's all. Another thing is the police and media claim Holmes to be 6'3"; however, many witnesses claim the shooter to be 5'8". Thats a big difference, no matter how far or what angle you're standing at. 

There are too many different stories.


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

^ which happens alot.. people were probably scared and distracted.. and yeah that is a BIG difference 9 inches or so.. but being far away.. i couldnt even tell how tall my friends are.. just not good at that kinda stuff haha


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## wetrain17 (May 25, 2011)

But I'm sure they know what happened, they have cameras there. 

I by no means what to stir anything up. My heart goes out to the family and friends of the victims and I cannot even imagine the horror they are feeling. But that doesnt mean I dont realize something isn't adding up in this one.


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

i agree.. but i just don't know


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

The again, think about it.
theyre in a packed theater, choking on tear gas, trying to escape the homicidal maniac that is shooting everybody. im not trying to nock their credibility but with those circumstances how reliable is the statements going to be?

and even with the height difference here, the guy had multiple weapons, and ammunition both on him and in his car, and his apartnemt was rigged to blow.

im not worried about the inconsistincies of his description. they have alot on this guy with out it.


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

yupp^^ exactly


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## wetrain17 (May 25, 2011)

I'm aware of all that Roper. But there are too many things in this event that just dont add up.


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

im not saying you arent. jmo that they have a pretty solid case against him. maybe maybe not. maybe you have more info than others on it?

what about it doesnt add up for you?


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## wetrain17 (May 25, 2011)

Well, one example is the picture that was released of him, his college ID picture. Look at that and then tell me that is the same person who was sitting in the court room.


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

it looks like him but orange hair haha.. which he died and then its longer..


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

looks the same to me...except for the carrot top....maybe looks rugged n dirty...but hes been in jail waiting for court...


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## wetrain17 (May 25, 2011)

look at the eyebrows, look at his nose, look at the distance from his lower lip to his chin.


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## wetrain17 (May 25, 2011)

I guess I'm not swept up in mainstream media and dont believe what they tell me. I dont believe in random acts, and I try to dig a little further in events


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

wetrain17 said:


> Well, one example is the picture that was released of him, his college ID picture. Look at that and then tell me that is the same person who was sitting in the court room.


lol its clearly the same person !


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## wetrain17 (May 25, 2011)

I don't buy the official story of what happened. When SWAT team strap on all their protective Kevlar gear, they are usually relying on others to help with that. One guy putting on his own protective gear would take more time and effort. We're supposed to believe this one guy out by his car in the parking lot strapped all this protective gear on, got his gas mask on, weaponed up, and there was no cop or security noticing the guy and alerting cops?


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## wetrain17 (May 25, 2011)

Either way, its just what I see. And I dont think things add up.


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

i highly doubt hes gonna walk into the court room looking like the smiling litle college boy picture they released...he just killed 12 people, wounded what 36? more, dyed his hair orange and called himself the joker when he was arrested, oh and he rigged his apartment to explode. i doubt id be looking my best if i had a screw loose and did what he did...js. 

im sure theyll be releasing more details once all the legal crap is over.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

It is the same man. One was before he went off the deep end.
If he were a dog, I would want him tested for rabies.
I wonder if he has a brain tumor.
Otherwise, it really brings one to wonder if there is such a thing as demon possession...........


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

Roperchick said:


> he just killed 12 people, wounded what 36?


um no he injured 58 and killed 12... totaling 70


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

^^^ aaah thanks. sorry the last time i looked they had said 36..haha my B....so yeah i doubt hes gona be the perky college boy after killing/injuring a total of 70 people....js


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

mmhmmm.. i dislike this CREEP..


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## Horse Poor (Aug 20, 2008)

I'm withholding my opinions of Holmes for the moment. Knowing that he could have easily blown the theater to bits (as evidenced by the complexity of the bombs found in his apartment) and remained totally anon. speaks volumes to me. That aside, another concern of mine is that he used the Emergency Exit, even propping it open so that he could return through it, and those exits are designed for emergencies. Why didn't the alarm go off? And, if the exit door alarm was a silent alarm (versus loud audio), why, then, didn't the fire alarms go off and the emergency lights come on when the tear gas was thrown into the room? Don't those smoke detectors sense smoke regardless of darkness of the room? Has anyone here worked for a cinema or movie theater who would know how the process is supposed to work?


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

i dont think the smoke detectors would have picked up on the gas.

and i dunno how long he had the emergency door propped open before he started shooting but i doubt it was that long. but idk.


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## TrojanCowgirl (Jun 1, 2012)

So sad. All the injured are in my thoughts, and to those that have passed on, my heart goes out to their friends and family...


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## Horse Poor (Aug 20, 2008)

Roperchick said:


> i dont think the smoke detectors would have picked up on the gas.
> 
> and i dunno how long he had the emergency door propped open before he started shooting but i doubt it was that long. but idk.


My bad…the article said "smoke" and "smoke bombs", not tear gas - I assumed tear gas, but it could have been something else. Either way, there was smoke…but no alarm...


Excerpts below:
Colorado Movie Theater Shooting: Suspect Bought 4 Guns, 6,000 Rounds of Ammunition in Past 60 Days - ABC News

"Moviegoer Christopher Ramos today recalled the real-life horror of the midnight premiere of the latest Batman movie, "The Dark Knight Rises," in Aurora, Colo., as a gunman decked in riot gear set off smoke bombs and opened fire on the unsuspecting audience."

…

"Witnesses in the movie theater said they saw smoke and heard gunshots that they thought were part of the movie until they saw Holmes standing in front of the screen, after entering from an emergency exit. Holmes methodically stalked the aisles of the theater, shooting people at random, as panicked movie-watchers in the packed auditorium tried to escape, witnesses said."


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

it would look like smoke. tear gas/cs gas etc is smoky white and looks like smoke but i dont think a detector would pick up on it.

from what i read they were tear gas cans. i think i remember something about a few being hospitalized for chemical burns or reactions or something but im not sure...


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Horse Poor said:


> Why didn't the alarm go off? And, if the exit door alarm was a silent alarm (versus loud audio), why, then, didn't the fire alarms go off and the emergency lights come on when the tear gas was thrown into the room?  Don't those smoke detectors sense smoke regardless of darkness of the room? Has anyone here worked for a cinema or movie theater who would know how the process is supposed to work?


HP, I didn't work for the theater, but my mom got locked in university library once. I called the campus police, so they showed up and told her just to push an emergency door out. She couldn't, so I and police officer went to the building through the basement, met her, and the officer open the emergency door for us by simple pushing (turned out mom didn't push hard enough). There was NO alarm going off. So if he used an emergency door to get out for a min I'm not surprised it didn't sound.

As for smoke detectors they designed to start up on CO(2), but what about tear gas (that is a different formula I assume)? I'm not sure frankly.


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

none of the different tear gases (CN, CS, CR, OC) have CO(2) so they would not be picked up.

alot of emergency exits are really just exits. they dont have alarms...i know at our movie theaters here and the ones back home, the doors at the ends of the hallways are marked "emergency exit" but really their just bigger doors used when movies get out...makes sence you have alot of peoplet trying to file out of the building after a movie...

plus i doubt this guy (who is supposedly ubber smart) would plan his shenanigans and plan on using a door with an alarm to get out to his car and grab all his gear...


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## Horse Poor (Aug 20, 2008)

Thank you KV and RC, it makes MUCH more sense now. I noticed that the pic in the Denver post (link below) that it is marked as "Exit" and shows it as a "Rear exit" into the parking lot, but news accounts consistently called it an Emergency Exit. I was curious to the smoke detectors as my cooking will set ours off and, well, as smokey as it sometimes gets, should pale in comparison to the smoke produced by tear gas. Great assessment about his being "uber smart" and not using an alarmed door. I didn't even think of that.

Thanks again for your responses.

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2012/0721/20120721_015723_CD0721SHOOTSCENE.jpg


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## Fort fireman (Mar 5, 2011)

to touch on the smoke detector issue. There are 2 types of smoke detectors. A photo electric type of detector. This uses a beam of light(laser)to detect particles of combustion. The carbon and other particles disperse this light and activate the alarm. Then there is the ionisation(SP?)detector. This detector actually uses a small peice of radioactive material that measure the conductivity in the air. This is changed if combustion is in the area. If they were using the ionization detectors there is a good chance it would not be activated due to the lack of actual combustion occuring. The photo electric may have got it and I would guess would have. However the photo electric is more expensive and we all know how that stuff goes when it effects the bottom dollar. There is also another possibility. They may have use a rate of rise heat detector. What that does is measure the ambient temp in an area. If the temp raises a certain amount in a given time it will activate. I do not know what the fire protection of that building is however.

I just got done listening to 40 mins of the FD radio traffic from time of dispatch. It is a great learning tool, no matter how tragic the circumstances. I would like to say they and the police did a jam up job. As well as can be expected in that situation. My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims,families, police, the brothers, and medics that responded. That type of thing is sometimes a career ending event.

As for the killer. If he is convicted, which i don't see a problem, it shouldnt cost much to get rid of him. At least how I would get rid of him it wouldn't. Go to Lowes and buy 8 ft of good hemp rope. About $6 worth. About $300 bucks of lumber for the gallows. Set a date in 1 week. That would give 1 week to sell tickets. Announce that all proceeds go to the victims and families. On the day choosen give him a short drop with a quick stop and let him swing till he stinks. Then bury him in a lonely forgotten grave never to be mentioned again.


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

Fort fireman said:


> As for the killer. If he is convicted, which i don't see a problem, it shouldnt cost much to get rid of him. At least how I would get rid of him it wouldn't. Go to Lowes and buy 8 ft of good hemp rope. About $6 worth. About $300 bucks of lumber for the gallows. Set a date in 1 week. That would give 1 week to sell tickets. Announce that all proceeds go to the victims and families. On the day choosen give him a short drop with a quick stop and let him swing till he stinks. Then bury him in a lonely forgotten grave never to be mentioned again.


that would be great wouldnt it


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

WOW people........

killing him wont bring them back, and your suggestions are unethical.


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

nobody is saying that his death would bring them back...obviously.

i dont see it as unethical... i see keeping a man like this in prison for the rest of his god given life ridiculous. spending more money than i will probably ever see to let this guy sit on his bum, and do nothing is ridiculous. you cant turn him back out into society because somebody will kill him. hes most likely (hopefully) gonna get the death penalty so i dont see the problem with it.


the most common way to kill a sicko criminal like this back in the day was to hang him. 
they hung people for way less back then so i dont see whats wrong with it now....it would save the country a butt ton of money.

would strapping him to the electric chair or pushing a needle into his vein be any more "ethical" dead is dead either way.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Nothing will bring back the dead, and somehow the relatives of the deceased should be the ones who have a chance to input on their idea of justice, life or death and if death then the manner of death.

I really don't see how any of what has been said is unethical as such, hanging is/was a common form of execution at one time.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

sorry but i dont believe in the dealth penalty. ethics are different for each person and i think that is unethical.

didnt your mama ever tell you that two wrongs dont make a right ?


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

> sorry but I don't believe in the dealth penalty. Ethics are different for each person and I think that is unethical.
> 
> *Didnt your mama ever tell you that two wrongs don't make a right ?*


thats overkill. really? please dont insult me or any other person like that.

to each their own. i do believe in the death penalty. i see nothing wrong with it. its not like theyre killing innocent children...theyre killing violent criminals like this guy that take pleasure in killing others.

please dont insult me or any other person that believe in it. we dont see it as a "wrong" we see it as justice. as well the the government...which is why they have it.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

thankfully not all states have the death penalty. one big reason why im against it is that they DO kill innocent people. not saying this guy is innocent, hes obviously not, but i also dont think the state of colorado should kill him !!

im NOT trying to insult you BTW.. im just saying, two wrongs dont make a right. killing him doesnt undo anything.

golden horse - just because killing/hanging people/ death penalty has been around for a long time doesnt mean its right.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

If I were him, I would rather be hanged than to rot in prison for the next 50 years.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

^^ isnt that a good reason to let him rot ??


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

> If I were him, I would rather be hanged than to rot in prison for the next 50 years.


if he even made it 50 yrs. theyd have to have him in solitary...hes had a bunch of death threats from general at the prison hes at right now.


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## Horse Poor (Aug 20, 2008)

gypsygirl said:


> sorry but i dont believe in the dealth penalty. ethics are different for each person and i think that is unethical.
> 
> didnt your mama ever tell you that two wrongs dont make a right ?


Who says the death penalty in this case is wrong?

IMHO, this is a man who did everything in his power to make sure HE wasn't hurt while deciding who would live and who would die by his hand. He's evil, pure and simple. This is what he wanted. He didn't try to escape or resist, he was standing by his car when arrested. He wanted to be arrested unharmed. He burned his bridges, he wants to be in jail. He wants to be alive…which is why he needs to die.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

gypsygirl said:


> im NOT trying to insult you BTW.. im just saying, two wrongs dont make a right. killing him doesnt undo anything.
> 
> golden horse - just because killing/hanging people/ death penalty has been around for a long time doesnt mean its right.


Well sending him to prison doesn't undo anything either, so maybe we should just let him go?

Sorry that doesn't make sense to me, two wrongs may not make a right, but some people just do not belong in civilized society. I am not a gung ho advocate of the death penalty, and I have no idea of the stats in the USA. What I do know is that in the UK since the death penalty was abolished, there have been more murders committed by second time offenders, than people who have had their guilty of murder verdicts overturned.

This means in terms of society as a whole, we would of lost less innocent lives by retaining the death penalty.


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## Fort fireman (Mar 5, 2011)

Gypsy, the death penalty has been a hot button topic for a long time. Almost as long as its been around. I respect your opinion on it. Alot of people agree with the no death penalty. However I do not agree with your opinion and that is fine. I am not trying to change your mind or hammer home my point. I just want to explain why I feel as I do.

I truely believe this thing(I will not call him a person or human being)deserves to die for his crime. He completely and totally displayed that he has no respect for the law, for society, or for the value of human life. He will not be rehabilitated or become a productive part of society and doesn't want to be. So why should the society that he has so blatantly shown he doesn't respect or want to be part of support him for the rest of his life? He made his choice and the consiquences should be sever. Perhaps if we started to eliminate some of these vermin and use them as examples things may change. It will never stop totally. This world is full of evil but at least we don't have to worry about repeat offenders. 

In my opinion he is an animal that has gone rouge. A rapid dog. The only way to handle a rapid dog is to put it down as quickly and efficiently as possible and move on.

At that I will bow out of the death penalty discussion and revert my thoughts back to the victims. May god bless the families with some ability to heal and move past this. I know that will be tough. As for the shooter, forgiveness is between him and god. I'm all about arranging the meeting.


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

^^ not just that but...this guy would be in solitary for the rest of his god given life. he could NEVER be turned back out into society because SOMEBODY would kill him. (which would ruin more lives) if hes turned into generalvpopulation in prison HE WILL BE KILLED. hes had so many death threats from lifers in the prison hes at that they are forced to keep him in solitary anyways...so instead of the possibility of somebody illegally killing him ruining theirs/their loved onse lives in the process, stick a needle in his arm and do the deed legally. it needs to be done. theres nothing else for it.


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## eclipseranch (May 31, 2012)

Roperchick said:


> ^^ not just that but...this guy would be in solitary for the rest of his god given life. he could NEVER be turned back out into society because SOMEBODY would kill him. (which would ruin more lives) if hes turned into generalvpopulation in prison HE WILL BE KILLED. hes had so many death threats from lifers in the prison hes at that they are forced to keep him in solitary anyways...so instead of the possibility of somebody illegally killing him ruining theirs/their loved onse lives in the process, stick a needle in his arm and do the deed legally. it needs to be done. theres nothing else for it.


just wow! this situation was horrific to say the least! but what the heck people..this used to be called a lynch mob but now technology allows it on line. seriously read what you are writing. 
a little facts: euthanasia because you believe someone is not "worthy" of life was perfected by Hitler (not one of my favorite people in history)
a physician who took the Hippocratic oath to save lives is ordered under the death penalty to inject a sedative usually versed, a chemical paralytic like pancuronium to prevent the ability to breath & a high dose of potassium to stop the heart...so unless you are willing to actually inject these drugs yourself and kill some low life your self..not sure how that makes you any better than him..take that strong anger & emotion, use it and spread some random acts of kindness in the world..you just might make some one smile & make their day better! in the mean time, say a prayer for all the families who tonight are dealing with major crisis in their life including those in Colorado!


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Fort fireman said:


> to touch on the smoke detector issue. There are 2 types of smoke detectors. A photo electric type of detector. This uses a beam of light(laser)to detect particles of combustion. The carbon and other particles disperse this light and activate the alarm. Then there is the ionisation(SP?)detector. This detector actually uses a small peice of radioactive material that measure the conductivity in the air. This is changed if combustion is in the area. If they were using the ionization detectors there is a good chance it would not be activated due to the lack of actual combustion occuring. The photo electric may have got it and I would guess would have. However the photo electric is more expensive and we all know how that stuff goes when it effects the bottom dollar. There is also another possibility. They may have use a rate of rise heat detector. What that does is measure the ambient temp in an area. If the temp raises a certain amount in a given time it will activate. I do not know what the fire protection of that building is however.


Thanks for explaining, FF! That was indeed very informative!


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

gypsygirl said:


> killing him wont bring them back, and your suggestions are unethical.


I don't see killing him as unethical. If the families of victims and those injured decide it's way to go, so be it. It's _their _right to chose at this point IMHO.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

kitten_Val said:


> I don't see killing him as unethical. If the families of victims and those injured decide it's way to go, so be it. It's _their _right to chose at this point IMHO.


They do plan to talk to the families about their wishes. To me, it seems unfair to put that kind of responsibility on the families. Besides the tremendous loss that they have, you add a guilt trip to them regardless of the decision that they make. That is too heavy.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

i agree celeste. also these families are im sure feeling extremely emotional, and its not a good idea to make people make a decision like that who are that emotional.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

eclipseranch said:


> just wow! this situation was horrific to say the least! but *what the heck people..this used to be called a lynch mob but now technology allows it on line. seriously read what you are writing.*
> a little facts: euthanasia because you believe someone is not "worthy" of life was perfected by Hitler (not one of my favorite people in history)
> a physician who took the Hippocratic oath to save lives is ordered under the death penalty to inject a sedative usually versed, a chemical paralytic like pancuronium to prevent the ability to breath & a high dose of potassium to stop the heart...so unless you are willing to actually inject these drugs yourself and kill some low life your self..not sure how that makes you any better than him..take that strong anger & emotion, use it and spread some random acts of kindness in the world..you just might make some one smile & make their day better! in the mean time, say a prayer for all the families who tonight are dealing with major crisis in their life including those in Colorado!


im horrified by these comments as well =/


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Celeste said:


> To me, it seems unfair to put that kind of responsibility on the families. Besides the tremendous loss that they have, you add a guilt trip to them regardless of the decision that they make. That is too heavy.


I have to disagree here. I remember several previous cases, when families did ask for justice and for decision to be up to them. If they chose NOT to make a decision, it's also their right. I don't see how that adds up.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I think that if I were a family member, I would feel compelled to make a decision. Then whatever decision that I made would haunt me the rest of my life. Whether there is the death penalty or not should be something that society has in place. What type of crimes cause a person to get this penalty if it is there should be in place. Then we should use those rules. If this is the case, this boy is in trouble.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Celeste said:


> Then whatever decision that I made would haunt me the rest of my life.


For some people may be, for some - I'm sure not. Death penalty IS something acceptable in Colorado, so I don't see how it is against the law to demand it. And if killing 12 and injuring 50+ is still not enough, then I simply don't know how many you have to kill then to fall under the law... :?


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## wetrain17 (May 25, 2011)

All this event is turning out to be is fuel for anti gun laws and a health care issue. I saw a commercial showing one of the family members of a wounded victim stating, "isnt the government going to help pay for the medical bills?" PLEASE!!! Is it tragic if this happened, yes, should the government run people's lives for them NO


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

kitten_Val said:


> For some people may be, for some - I'm sure not. Death penalty IS something acceptable in Colorado, so I don't see how it is against the law to demand it. And if killing 12 and injuring 50+ is still not enough, then I simply don't know how many you have to kill then to fall under the law... :?


it is not against the law to seek the death penalty in CO, no one is saying it is. just that its unethical.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

kitten_Val said:


> For some people may be, for some - I'm sure not. Death penalty IS something acceptable in Colorado, so I don't see how it is against the law to demand it. And if killing 12 and injuring 50+ is still not enough, then I simply don't know how many you have to kill then to fall under the law... :?


You are right. If he does not get the death penalty, they probably should just throw it out.


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## wetrain17 (May 25, 2011)

And where are his roommates? What happened to them, why are public records or his roommates, suddenly erased?


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

wetrain17 said:


> "isnt the government going to help pay for the medical bills?"


Hospital where injured people are staying said they'll cut the medical bills or (possibly) just wipe them out completely. Very generous of them! 

I've read one victim is going to sue the theater, the movie makers, and the doctors of the suspect for what happened. What can I say...


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

gypsygirl said:


> it is not against the law to seek the death penalty in CO, no one is saying it is. just that its unethical.


I don't want to go into philosophical discussion really, but why do you find it to be unethical? And what would be ethical then? Especially in eyes of those who went through this hell (for the lack of better word)?


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## wetrain17 (May 25, 2011)

kitten_Val said:


> Hospital where injured people are staying said they'll cut the medical bills or (possibly) just wipe them out completely. Very generous of them!
> 
> I've read one victim is going to sue the theater, the movie makers, and the doctors of the suspect for what happened. What can I say...


 
What can you say? I know what you can say, but I'd probably get chastised.


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## wetrain17 (May 25, 2011)

Bearkiller said:


> What are you implying wetrain? A conspiracy?


 
The more I read about this, the more I see things not adding up, so Yes. I now see a conspiracy.


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## kittersrox (Jun 15, 2011)

I think he deserves the death penalty. You guys, he killed *12* people and wounded *58*. It's not about revenge, it's about justice.

He obviously didn't want to die, otherwise he would have put up a fight with the cops. Don't let him sit in jail for life, that's probably what he wants.


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

guys here the news recently, he wrote a journal and sent it to his physicist... dont judge my spelling haha.. the journal had what he was going to do to the T. He is going to please insanity but to me it shows pre meditation..


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

wetrain17 said:


> I don't buy the official story of what happened. *When SWAT team strap on all their protective Kevlar gear, they are usually relying on others to help with that.* One guy putting on his own protective gear would take more time and effort. We're supposed to believe this one guy out by his car in the parking lot strapped all this protective gear on, got his gas mask on, weaponed up, and there was no cop or security noticing the guy and alerting cops?



Ok, I had to respond. I have been in law enforcement for18 years, 11 as a firearms instructor. Let me tell you that "SWAT" gear is very easy to don by yourself. Have you been around it?

As for the time it took him? Movies are not a five minute cartoon.

I don't know of any movie theater (before this) who had armed private security. All of the movie houses in my town have back alleys that have very little traffic, so the owners probably don't think an expensive security camera is cost effective.

There are "conspiracy theorists" behind every door...sadly. 

Bearkiller,

Good luck getting an effective shot on a person who is wearing head to toe ballistic protection. You couldn't carry enough magazines to get that lucky shot finding a gap in that kind of protection.


For me, the ultimate sad irony is that one of the young women who was killed was also involved in another mass shooting in Toronto Canada. Not all of these events happen in gun happy USA.


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## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

JustDressageIt said:


> With tear gas involved, not to mention the dark theater, this probably would have just complicated things. Can you imagine taking out a concealed weapon and trying to shoot at the killer in that sort of panic? Chances are another innocent would get hurt.
> Problem is it doesn't matter about the laws when it comes to this sort of insanity - its not like the shooter would have thought "oh shoot carrying a concealed weapon is illegal, guess I won't go after all..." no - they don't care about laws like that.
> Correct me if I'm wrong... I read that it actually costs taxpayers more to put a criminal to death than to keep them locked up for life..?
> 
> ...


The thing is if the bad guys KNOW more people have guns they might think twice before trying to do something... Like if they had a choice to steal from two different ladies, one with a gun and one without they probably would choose the one without...Just my two cents...


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## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

Allison Finch said:


> Bearkiller,
> 
> Good luck getting an effective shot on a person who is wearing head to toe ballistic protection. You couldn't carry enough magazines to get that lucky shot finding a gap in that kind of protection.
> 
> ...


 
Why don't all of our troops wear this inpenetrable armor, if it exists? You being in law enforcement have to know that there are rounds of ammo out there that can easily penetrate most armor. Armor or not, not many people can just stand there while someone is shooting at them. Especially someone who didn't want to die, as this guy clearly didn't. The point isn't even that one person WOULD have stopped him. The point is that had there been several people armed, maybe they COULD have stopped him. Even if they only stopped him after 11 people were murdered, the 12th would have appreciated it, right? The sad reality is that most people licensed to carry aren't going to be the same people at a midnight showing of a movie....... :shock:


It is sad. Another sad story is of the man who left his fiance in the theater and saved himself. She still plans on marrying the loser.


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## eclipseranch (May 31, 2012)

gypsygirl said:


> im horrified by these comments as well =/


yes reality can be horrifying. Personally I practice human compassion whether I agree with someones personal view or not.
@ Allison Finch..bless you for the work you do putting your life on the line every day keeping the good folks & some not so good safe...tough, tough job that I could not do but am in awe of it

just dropped off a huge pile of jeans my kids out grew to the local school for less fortunate kids..my little random act of kindness today..do it...it makes a positive difference!


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Bearkiller said:


> Another sad story is of the man who left his fiance in the theater and saved himself. She still plans on marrying the loser.


Simply WOW! Where did you read about it?


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## eclipseranch (May 31, 2012)

kitten_Val said:


> I have to disagree here. I remember several previous cases, when families did ask for justice and for decision to be up to them. If they chose NOT to make a decision, it's also their right. I don't see how that adds up.


don't families of victims have a chance to speak at trials/sentence hearings or is that just drama in the movies? I have never been in a major type trial , thankfully!


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

eclipseranch said:


> don't families of victims have a chance to speak at trials/sentence hearings or is that just drama in the movies? I have never been in a major type trial , thankfully!


From what I know they can speak. But the final decision is not up to them anyway. I was rather surprised to see the officials saying they want to hear what relatives want first.


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## Lakotababii (Nov 28, 2010)

In Illinois:

Trials are about hard facts. The survivors who were there tell what they saw, did, and what the accused did. It is not about emotion or how anyone felt about it. It is just cold hard facts.

The survivors get to tell how it affected them comes after the trial. It occurs only after a "guilty" verdict. It is called a victim's impact statement. Basically the victim at that point gets to say how it affected them. But once again, this has to do with sentencing, and helps the judge determine how harsh he/she should be on the criminal. 

Emotions and statements of "this is what he did to me" and "this is how it affected me" are of no use in a trial. It's about getting down to what happened, and quite frankly has not much to do with the victims. It is just about figuring out what happened and getting a guilty or not guilty verdict. The victims get a say in what happens, to a point, as a good prosecutor will keep victims in the loop whenever possible. But ultimately it is a dance of the lawyers, and whoever pulls off the best act wins. 

So no, it's not like it is in the movies, or on TV.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Bearkiller said:


> Why don't all of our troops wear this inpenetrable armor, if it exists?



Actually, they do wear a lot of ballistic protection. Most, however, don't do much against rifle ammo. I would guess you wouldn't be tucking that AR 15 into your waistband......



> You being in law enforcement have to know that there are rounds of ammo out there that can easily penetrate most armor. Armor or not, not many people can just stand there while someone is shooting at them. Especially someone who didn't want to die, as this guy clearly didn't.


Wow, you didn't tell me that your pistol was loaded with armor piercing ammo. In many places that is illegal, but I guess you know your local laws better than I could.



> The point isn't even that one person WOULD have stopped him. The point is that had there been several people armed, maybe they COULD have stopped him. Even if they only stopped him after 11 people were murdered, the 12th would have appreciated it, right? The sad reality is that most people licensed to carry aren't going to be the same people at a midnight showing of a movie....... :shock:


Why not at a midnight showing? Gun owners like movies too. The problem I see with the many people firing at a "suspect" is that with all of the gas/smoke/screaming/confusion, many people would probably not be terribly accurate. Even trained professionals may not perform their best under those conditions and they train constantly to do that job. I wouldn't like panicked people shooting when they may be just as likely to hit some of thos innocent bystanders, too.

Don't get me wrong. I would love to have seen some law enforcement officers who were carrying their off duty weapons to try. But I suspect they would have had to get one of those lucky shots too. Remember those armor covered bank robbers who killed those cops before they managed to take them down? 




> It is sad. Another sad story is of the man who left his fiance in the theater and saved himself. She still plans on marrying the loser.


Yikes!! She wants a loser like that? At least she is forewarned where HIS priorities are.


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## eclipseranch (May 31, 2012)

Lakotababii said:


> In Illinois:
> 
> Trials are about hard facts. The survivors who were there tell what they saw, did, and what the accused did. It is not about emotion or how anyone felt about it. It is just cold hard facts.
> 
> ...


so basically, in this case, the "guilt" is established from the onset so is the starting ?? to be decided whether he "can" stand trial based on mental capacity? then if so possible punishment? or do they still have to establish guilt?


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## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

Allison Finch said:


> Actually, they do wear a lot of ballistic protection. Most, however, don't do much against rifle ammo. I would guess you wouldn't be tucking that AR 15 into your waistband.......


I know they wear the "ballistic protection" yet they still die. *That was my point.* As a firearms instructor, you surely must know that pistols can be chambered in many different calibers, including rifle rounds. You don't have to have an AR15 to shoot a rifle round. In fact, many of these guns are common.





Allison Finch said:


> Wow, you didn't tell me that your pistol was loaded with armor piercing ammo. In many places that is illegal, but I guess you know your local laws better than I could..


Who said I have armor piercing ammo in my pistol? Better yet, who said ammo HAD to be "armor piercing" to penetrate armor? I am not aware of what exact armor he had. Maybe you have that info. But I don't think it matters. How many people could REMAIN standing while taking one to the chest, whether or not it penetrates? There is alot of force behind a bullet, it has to go somewhere. 



Allison Finch said:


> Why not at a midnight showing? Gun owners like movies too. The problem I see with the many people firing at a "suspect" is that with all of the gas/smoke/screaming/confusion, many people would probably not be terribly accurate. Even trained professionals may not perform their best under those conditions and they train constantly to do that job. I wouldn't like panicked people shooting when they may be just as likely to hit some of thos innocent bystanders, too.


Where are all of these cases of innocent by-standers being killed by concealed carriers? :? When did we become programmed to count on "law enforcement" to protect us? Is there no sense of duty for a person to at least try and defend themselves? 



Allison Finch said:


> Don't get me wrong. I would love to have seen some law enforcement officers who were carrying their off duty weapons to try. But I suspect they would have had to get one of those lucky shots too. Remember those armor covered bank robbers who killed those cops before they managed to take them down?


Again, why is it only okay for cops to defend people? Self defense is a basic right. Not something limited to government officials. Look at the history of the world. Although you could never measure it, I'd bet more people have been killed by people in official government capacity than have been murdered by another citizen. Yet that's who we count on to defend us. I am not anti police or anti military at all. I am anti victim. I don't want to be one.


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

gypsygirl said:


> sorry but i dont believe in the dealth penalty. ethics are different for each person and i think that is unethical.
> 
> didnt your mama ever tell you that two wrongs dont make a right ?



IMO it was 70 wrongs he shot 70 people.. that IMO makes it perfectly fine to zap him


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

Bearkiller said:


> We don't need people taking action into their own hands, literally.


im confused by you now.. you were saying that people coudn't have changed anything about this earlier on.. and now.. you say that could have...:shock:


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## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

barrelbeginner said:


> im confused by you now.. you were saying that people coudn't have changed anything about this earlier on.. and now.. you say that could have...:shock:


 
Where did I say that in context?


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

what i qouted on the above you said that it couldnt have been changed that only 'proper lawenforment' should do away with this guy.. then you said in a post above that you thought : why is it only okay for cops to defend people


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## Lakotababii (Nov 28, 2010)

eclipseranch said:


> so basically, in this case, the "guilt" is established from the onset so is the starting ?? to be decided whether he "can" stand trial based on mental capacity? then if so possible punishment? or do they still have to establish guilt?



As with every trial in the US, the accused is considered innocent until proven guilty. It is the job of the prosecuting attorney to establish guilt. Going into the trial, no one is supposed to assume anything. If the prosecution can establish (and the jury unanimously agrees) that the accused is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt then they will pronounce him guilty and he will be sentenced. 

The idea that he can't stand trial because he is mentally ill could be a defense strategy. As of right now, his lawyers have not made it clear whether or not they will try for that. At this point it is all speculation. Whether or not he is "mentally ill" has nothing to do with his guilt status going in. No matter what, a person accused of a crime goes into a trial innocent of that crime until they are proven guilty.

Does that answer your questions?


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

okay couple things.

being in the military....yes we wear IBA's and ACH's (kevlar vests and helmets) but you can still get shot. and it can still be pierced. nothing really is "bullet proof" imo. even safety glass will crack. if you get hit by a rifle round or enough pistol rounds anybody will go down. even if it doesnt pierce your being hit with a butt ton of force and its gonna hurt like crap.

as for whether somebody carrying concealed in the theater could have made a difference...speaking from experience and having gone through the gas chamber multiple times...your not going to be coherent. your going to have your eyes burning probably cant see, wont be able to breathe because this crap gets in your lungs. basically your mind shuts down and all you can concentrate on is breathing and trying to get out of the gas. the swat guys couldnt even go in until they were brought gas masks...

tear gas (al the different kinds) are meant for disabling. theyre meant to cripple you so that you cant concentrate on attacking or whatever all you concentrate on is "get me the hejj outta here"

so no i dont think somebody with a concealed would have made it better. i think it would have made it worse.

plus even with the threat of "well somebody in there could be carrying." this guy planned for MONTHS how he was going to execute it...he had every detail down to a pat. he obviously prepared and took precautions with the tear gas so i doubt the "oh well somebody may have a gun tucked somewhere" would have phased him.


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

> The idea that he can't stand trial because he is mentally ill could be a defense strategy. As of right now, his lawyers have not made it clear whether or not they will try for that. At this point it is all speculation. Whether or not he is "mentally ill" has nothing to do with his guilt status going in. No matter what, a person accused of a crime goes into a trial innocent of that crime until they are proven guilty.


if he were found mentaly insane he would go to an institution correct?

would he just stay there for the rest of his life or if he was later "cured" of it could he then be tried again for this?

i dont know squat about this kinda thing.


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## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

barrelbeginner said:


> what i qouted on the above you said that it couldnt have been changed that only 'proper lawenforment' should do away with this guy.. then you said in a post above that you thought : why is it only okay for cops to defend people


 
Maybe you should go reread the posts........

I said i don't believe in vigilante justice. I do believe in self defense, though. Big difference.... :shock:


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## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

Bearkiller said:


> Really? You can't see the difference between vigilante justice and self defense? Oh, what it must be like to lack critical thinking skills.........
> 
> Okay, for a lesson, shooting him may have saved other peoples lives. Vigilante justice would be walking up and shooting him after he was in handcuffs or otherwise detained. You see no difference????? Really????


 
This is what I said about 9 pages ago^^^^



barrelbeginner said:


> what i qouted on the above you said that it couldnt have been changed that only 'proper lawenforment' should do away with this guy.. then you said in a post above that you thought : why is it only okay for cops to defend people


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## eclipseranch (May 31, 2012)

Lakotababii said:


> As with every trial in the US, the accused is considered innocent until proven guilty. It is the job of the prosecuting attorney to establish guilt. Going into the trial, no one is supposed to assume anything. If the prosecution can establish (and the jury unanimously agrees) that the accused is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt then they will pronounce him guilty and he will be sentenced.
> 
> The idea that he can't stand trial because he is mentally ill could be a defense strategy. As of right now, his lawyers have not made it clear whether or not they will try for that. At this point it is all speculation. Whether or not he is "mentally ill" has nothing to do with his guilt status going in. No matter what, a person accused of a crime goes into a trial innocent of that crime until they are proven guilty.
> 
> Does that answer your questions?


yes I guess what was a bit confusing is that guilt & mentally ill seem obvious but it is the "legal" definition that matters here and that is very different than the medical or the lay definition so as you said he goes in to the trial "innocent" in the eyes of the law (unless they have him certified as unable to stand trial by reason of insanity) ...is there a psych eval done by both the defense & the prosecution if that is pursued?


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## Fort fireman (Mar 5, 2011)

I am no lawyer or legal expert by no means but what I have seen before is this. If they are going to use legally insane as a defence the suspect will plead guilty, by means of insanity. That takes them into a whole new realm of legal proceedings which include proving that yes this person is indeed crazy as a crap house mouse. In other words the can't say"I.m inocent but insane" . Using the insanity plea usually comes with an admission of guilt to said crime. However I could be wrong but that is my observations.


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

he said he has amsomnia that he didnt know that he did that.// atleast what my parents said this morning....


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

barrelbeginner said:


> he said he has amsomnia that he didnt know that he did that.


Amsomnia? Insomnia you mean?


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

oh ya haha sorry summer is making me forget..:/ lol


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## Lakotababii (Nov 28, 2010)

Roperchick said:


> if he were found mentaly insane he would go to an institution correct?
> 
> would he just stay there for the rest of his life or if he was later "cured" of it could he then be tried again for this?
> 
> i dont know squat about this kinda thing.



Yes, he would go to an institution.

And, as far as I know (someone correct me if I'm wrong), you cannot be tried for the same crime twice. So if he does plead insanity, and gets the "punishment" for it (which would be the looney bin) then he cannot be tried again, no matter if he is "cured" or not. 

Pretty crappy huh?



eclipseranch said:


> yes I guess what was a bit confusing is that guilt & mentally ill seem obvious but it is the "legal" definition that matters here and that is very different than the medical or the lay definition so as you said he goes in to the trial "innocent" in the eyes of the law (unless they have him certified as unable to stand trial by reason of insanity) ...is there a psych eval done by both the defense & the prosecution if that is pursued?


Yes. If he is going to try the "insane" route, then he would need to have multiple psychological evaluations and other tests done by numerous professionals to make it legit. They will then put the mental health professionals (or other professionals) on the stand to testify as to whether or not the defendant is indeed insane, according to the law. They have to prove that he acted on insanity, and had no idea what he was doing. The proescution would try to prove the opposite, that this man was not insane and knew exactly what he was doing.


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## Horse Poor (Aug 20, 2008)

barrelbeginner said:


> he said he has amsomnia that he didnt know that he did that.// atleast what my parents said this morning....


I read it too…he's claiming amnesia (link below)…and it's not passing the smell test! Wasn't it a day or so ago he asked a guard how the movie ended? 

James Holmes Claims Amnesia: Alleged 'Dark Knight' Shooter Wonders Why He's Arrested


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

> And, as far as I know (someone correct me if I'm wrong), you cannot be tried for the same crime twice. So if he does plead insanity, and gets the "punishment" for it (which would be the looney bin) then he cannot be tried again, no matter if he is "cured" or not.
> 
> Pretty crappy huh?


so basically he could go to the loony bin for a few years...gradually get "cured" and eventually be released and not get any other punishment for killing 12 people and wounding 58? wow. thats crap.



> he said he has amsomnia that he didnt know that he did that.// atleast what my parents said this morning....


insomnia? he wants to say he killed/wounded 70 people because he "couldnt sleep". so the journal he sent to his doctor with his plans for this insane act, and all his planning, setting up a booby trap in his apartment, getting all the ammo and weapons ect, he supposedly didnt realize he was doing? 



> *Actions prior to the Aurora shooting*
> 
> On May 22, 2012, Holmes purchased his first weapon, a .40-caliber Glock pistol, at a Gander Mountain shop in Aurora, and six days later a Remington Model 870 shotgun at a Bass Pro Shop in Denver. On June 7, just hours after failing his oral exam at the university, he purchased a Smith & Wesson M&P15semi-automatic rifle, with a second .40-caliber Glock pistol following on July 6. All the weapons were bought legally. In the four months prior to the shooting Holmes also bought 3000 rounds of ammunition for the pistols, 3000 rounds for the M&P15, and 350 shells for the shotgun over the internet. On July 2, he placed an order for a Blackhawk Urban Assault Vest, two magazine holders and a knife at an online retailer.
> On June 25, less than a month before the shooting, Holmes emailed an application to join a gun club in Byers, Colorado. The owner, Glenn Rotkovich, called him several times throughout the following days to invite him to a mandatory orientation, but could only reach his answering machine. Due to the nature of Holmes' voice mail, which he described as "bizarre, freaky", "guttural, spoken with a deep voice, incoherent and rambling" Rotkovich instructed his staff to inform him if Holmes should show up, though Holmes neither made his appearance at the gun range, nor called back. “In hindsight, looking back -- and if I’d seen the movies -- maybe I’d say it was like the Joker -- I would have gotten the Joker out of it,” Rotkovich said. “It was like somebody was trying to be as weird as possible,” he said.
> Holmes mailed a package to the University of Colorado Denver/Anschutz Medical Campus where he had been a student. It was addressed to a psychiatrist at the university, but it wasn't discovered until Monday July 23, 2012. The package contained a notebook where Holmes had drawn stick-figure assailants carrying out an attack and it detailed how Holmes was going to kill people. The police concluded that the "drawings and illustrations were of the massacre." The notebook is now in the possession of the FBI.


this is months of planning, and months of preperation...you would know what you were doing....this could never stand...i hope.


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## Lakotababii (Nov 28, 2010)

Roperchick said:


> so basically he could go to the loony bin for a few years...gradually get "cured" and eventually be released and not get any other punishment for killing 12 people and wounding 58? wow. thats crap.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, it is crap. But unfortunately it would fall under the double jeopardy laws. :-|

I think they meant amnesia, not insomnia :wink: He is apparently claiming he doesn't remember doing what he did, and thus he has amnesia.

Yes, it was premeditated, or so it looks like. A good lawyer, though, would easily be able to discount him buying the firearms as premeditation. Same with the assault vest and magazine carriers and knives. Lots of people buy those things and don't carry out murders. So that probably won't get them far in prosecution. Same with the gun club membership. Actually, it may do more for his defense than anything, as they could say that this was a crime of passion, a one time insanity thing, since he already had the guns beforehand, and he had tried to join a sportsman's club. Do I buy that? Nope. I think you are absolutely right that he was planning this as soon as he bought his first gun, but it is all about what they can prove.

The bit about the notebook is interesting. Makes me wonder, though, why that package was not opened when it was sent?


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

amnesia makes more sence....but still.
imo claiming amnesia would be like a last ditch effort to get off or put in the loony bin instead of life in prison or death penalty...i hope this guy gets taken down..and hard...this is sick.

but ive been reading that one of the hospitals completely waived al charges and expenses for 3 patients who had no insurance! which is great!


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

amnesia or not, hes clearly mentally ill imo. and no, you dont have to agree with me.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I read that the notebook that he sent to the psychiatrist was actually mailed Friday and it was opened Monday. The original reports that it had been there for a long time are now said to be wrong.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Horse Poor said:


> he's claiming amnesia (link below)…


For 4 months ordering and preparing... Yeah, right... 

gypsy, anyone killing people for no reason is mentally sick. Noone will be arguing with it. However "sickness" can be different. The blow-out under certain circumstances one moment in life is very, very different from thorough, several months long (and quite smart) planning to murder as many people as possible. To me he's no different from the terrorists (even though his "reasons" to kill could of be different).


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

kitten_Val said:


> To me he's no different from the terrorists (even though his "reasons" to kill could of be different).


I haven't checked what the actual definition of a terrorist is, but my simple mind tends to dub it as one causing terror, so to my mind he is a terrorist. He may not have a political angle, but to slaughter ones fellow countrymen and women in such a fashion is either an act of terror, treason or war, and he should be dealt with as such.

Yes I do know I'm an outsider looking in, but just my opinion.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Have you seen this one?

Colorado Batman shooting shows obvious signs of being staged


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

basically the way they put it to us is terrorism is any heinious act used to create terror for religious, political or ideological reason.

so yeah. i vote hes a terrorist


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

thats crap imo. you can get swat gear, weapons and get instruction on google to make your own bomb so imo hes fully capable of doing this by himself.

military connection? really? you can get this equipment online anywhere if you look.


ETA: are they really trying to blame the FBI for this? really? im so sure the fbi would "brain wash" this guy into going in and shooting 70 people...right....sorry but i really dont buy this.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

There are going to be conspiracy theories. They probably won't pan out to be true. I think that he is a mad man. Does that mean that he should get away with his crime? No. He is unsalvageable as a human. He will never be able to be a useful part of society. It is a shame. With his abilities, he could have used his talents to help people.


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

why cant they just find him guilty and be done with it? the man killed 12 people! i dont really see how it matters if hes insane or not...HE. KILLED. 12. PEOPLE. he injured 58 more...
ugh. i quit. let the justice people deal with it...but if i see him walking the streets....me n him are gonna have a conversation....


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Evidence is needed to convict. While there is evidence via the loaded apartment and the car, it was a dark theater so they didn't ID him because the man they described was either taller or shorter like 5'8" versus 6'2" or something like that.. I can't remember exactly.)


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I think they know that he did it, but if we did not have protocols in place so that people got hearings and trials, then there might be a time when somebody thinks that you or me did something bad. We would be rounded up and executed and we might be innocent. I suspect he did it and will be convicted. It is just that his right to a fair trial is there so that we will also have a right to a fair trial. These things take time. There is nothing that we can do but wait.


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## Horse Poor (Aug 20, 2008)

And so it begins…the mental illness defense

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/li...727_011819_2012-07-27 12CR1522 Motion D11.pdf

http://www.courts.state.co.us/userf...2-07-27 12CR1522 People's response to D11.pdf


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## Nuala (Jan 2, 2012)

Im sorry but I am not reading 21 pages of posts. From the first and the 20 and the 21 pages I am getting that people are trying to blame military, government, etc.

It is one persons decision to do such a thing. 

This reminds me of when my surrogate Grandpappy crashed his plane flying back to Montana from a job, yes work, in Wyoming. We were looking at news posts to see if they had released the details yet and instead we find people saying that he was out there trying to scare up deer for bait to pouch Wolves. 


The fact here is that people got hurt, the people that were shot and have to survive it knowing that others didnt and the family members of those who did loose their lives. 
When the PBR was in Billings Montana there was a little girl who was the nights best fan because her and her family came all the way up from Aurora Colorado to see Flint and the bull riders. I do not know if she was put on television but I do know that it is people like that that are going through this tragedy now and that instead of contemplating why and making this about the person, who probably just wanted 15 minutes of fame, we need to be making a point to keep a focus, if not all of it, on those who have to pick up the pieces in the aftermath.


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## Horse Poor (Aug 20, 2008)

Roperchick said:


> why cant they just find him guilty and be done with it? the man killed 12 people! i dont really see how it matters if hes insane or not...HE. KILLED. 12. PEOPLE. he injured 58 more...
> ugh. i quit. let the justice people deal with it...but if i see him walking the streets....me n him are gonna have a conversation....


I agree with you 110%…and I don't think he's insane. I think he knew exactly what he was, and is, doing. Even what he told police and when indicates planning. ie. he told them about the apt. being rigged to blow. They (the police) thought it was rigged to blow them up…but I think it was rigged for an unsuspecting neighbor. I say this because neighbors knew he was a college student, as, I imagine, are many in that building. If you heard loud techno music from an apt., would you immediately call the police, or, would you go and bang on the door/check it out yourself? Most kids that age would check it out first as most college kids do not want the police unnecessarily involved as many, including this POS, smoke weed. He didn't want the cops to be hurt, he wanted them to do their job and that is all. When he realized the apt. didn't blow as expected, he immediately told them about it knowing that they would check out his apt. after his arrest. ie. killing cops would risk his death. I also think that is why he didn't resist. He also told the police about the package, before his "amnesia". He likes to be in control and to control others…and he is, for now.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Conspiracy?
Anyone can buy SWAT gear, easily. Do you want some? Just check ebay

swat gear | eBay

You can buy it anywhere.

buy SWAT gear - Bing

This was simply a disenfranchised nut who wanted attention, that's all. And here we are playing rightinto his delusions.....


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## eclipseranch (May 31, 2012)

Fort fireman said:


> I am no lawyer or legal expert by no means but what I have seen before is this. If they are going to use legally insane as a defence the suspect will plead guilty, by means of insanity. That takes them into a whole new realm of legal proceedings which include proving that yes this person is indeed crazy as a crap house mouse. In other words the can't say"I.m inocent but insane" . Using the insanity plea usually comes with an admission of guilt to said crime. However I could be wrong but that is my observations.


actually John Hinkley (spelling) was found Not Guilty by reason of Insanity by a jury in the shooting of President Ronald Reagan & lived many years in St Elizabeth hospital in Washington DC..don;t know what happened to him after a few decades.

someone earlier asked if found insane by the jury would he be institutionalized for life....not necessarily...lawyers will advocate for him & when/if the doctors deem him to be not a threat to society he could potentially walk....they usually don't make those decisions lightly but it is possible and yes double jeopardy would prevent him from being tried a second time for the same crime(s)


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## Horse Poor (Aug 20, 2008)

IMHO, manipulative, yes, delusional, no. ie. I think the red hair has as much to do with being the Joker as Ronald McDonald does. But it will identify which stick figure represents him in the package he sent.

At any rate, I'm done too…time to let the courts handle it.


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## eclipseranch (May 31, 2012)

Horse Poor said:


> time to let the courts handle it.


yes its been that time for a while..unfortunately the system/process will take quite a bit of time till it is handled


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

Here is my theory. If you notice, at age 18 this guy was interested in the neuroscience of how the brain deciphers reality from non-reality. I think he had mental problems early on, specifically not being able to tell the difference between the two on occasion. I mean, even if one experienced that for 2 seconds a month, it would scare the living poop out of them! He was quite intelligent - and was fascinated and naturally interested his own problem, but smart enough to know people would consider him insane if he told them. His problem intensified, especially under stress such as one would experience in graduate school...and he totally lost touch w reality. Total conjecture...but everyone has a theory.


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## LetAGrlShowU (Mar 25, 2009)

I haven't read quite a few pages. but saw this on Facebook recently and truly does make you wonder... 
The nose, eyes, eyebrows, mouth- all different.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Yeah well......


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Golden Horse said:


> Yeah well......


He had surgery done and then developed a condition (or something)... I don't think James did.


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

hmm, other than the nose and possibly the ear lobes, everything else looks the same to me...especially the position of the adam's apple or whatever it is called.

Sky, what was the condition jackson had? I thought he went through a medical process to lighten his skin...maybe not.


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

^^ mj did have a thing to lighten his skin.. and hmmm he does look the same. but different.. creepy.. its the same guy, i can flare out my nose lol and make it look smaller... it was all part of his plan i think..


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Missy May said:


> Sky, what was the condition jackson had?


From what I read he indeed had a condition: his skin was losing pigmentation (called vitiligo or something like that).


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Missy May said:


> Sky, what was the condition jackson had? I thought he went through a medical process to lighten his skin...maybe not.


MJackson had nose work done and it was rumored that he lightened his skin but his physician did say he developed a pigmentation condition called...
*Vitiligo

*As Val pointed out


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

Interesting, I did not know he had a condition.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

isnt vitiligo patchy ? my cousin has it, and he just has lighter patches and its never gotten worse.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

For anyone else doubting it: http://www.nowpublic.com/culture/vi...n-autopsy-confirms-skin-disorder-2572670.html

Not really credible but it does give some more info.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

gypsygirl said:


> isnt vitiligo patchy ? my cousin has it, and he just has lighter patches and its never gotten worse.


Don't know, gypsy. I'd think it has levels of severity, but I'm not an expert in any way.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I think it starts out patchy and then it can spread. I am not sure that they can lighten anybody that much. He sure was cuter as a black kid with a nose. Poor Michael. That man could dance.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Apparently I found out some of my schoolmates went to that theater for the premiere (I used to go there too at times) and they were in theater 9 but didn't get shot. Talk about freaking lucky.


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

The whole thing is too "weird", since they won't release any info - and for good reason, I am sure. I mean, he sends a notebook? It must say something as to "why". It is remotely possible, I guess, that there was one person he was actually after...but, that seems real "iffy" unless the individual worked at the theater, how else would he know they would be there? 

One thing for sure, the bs about prisoners saying they want to kill him...really? Why, batman was helping them find their moral compass? Besides, did they mean people in jail awaiting trial type prisoners - or people in prison? Since it can't be verified...its too easy to "say they said", I guess.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Most of the stuff in the media is probably made up.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Looks like it spreads like a disease.....  Now in Maryland!

Neil Prescott, 'Joker': Maryland man called himself Joker in threatening shooting, documents say


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Come on..... "/


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