# Pangare or brown?



## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

So I was starting to wonder about Jets pangare. I know that young horses often have pangare but now that he is a year and a half I thought it might have gone away by now since he's gone through a few coat changes. So if it is just baby pangare how long does that stay around or will he keep it? I was toying around with him possibly being brown but he has the light points in the summer as well and I thought browns only get those in the winter though I could be wrong I don't know a lot about brown. Anyways I'd love to learn more so thanks guys. His breed is a quarter horse/paint. I'll post a few pics starting from youngest to this years winter coat .

Baby coat









First foal shed









Last years winter coat









This summers coat

















This winters coat


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## SunnyMeadeFarm (Sep 3, 2012)

Yea, I think its very possible he could be a pangare.
I was always taught brown isn't really a color, but that's not true for everybody.
He got a great conformation, but anyway, hes defiantly a bay (almost looks like he becomes a pretend dun by his summer coat lol, just because his color is so dull)
So I would say he a pangare or just a lightly shaded bay.


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## kctop72 (Aug 25, 2011)

I have no idea but he sure is purdy!!!!


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Thanks guys! I was taught brown wasn't a color as well but now they have found it genetically. Bays are Ag and browns are At. Think I remembered that right.....I hope. 

Here is his sire. 

















Here is his dam my pally mare Joy


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

Well he's not a bay, because his nose is light and the rest of his "soft" parts are also a light color

Bay and Brown are genetically different, by the tiniest bit.
His sire is brown

My mare is brown, because her soft spots are also lighter


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Lexiie said:


> Well he's not a bay, because his nose is light and the rest of his "soft" parts are also a light color
> 
> Bay and Brown are genetically different, by the tiniest bit.
> His sire is brown
> ...


Believe it or not Jet's sire (Mojo) has a creme gene his sire is a cremello. Jets sire belongs to my friend and he lived with me for awhile when he was a weanling and a little when he was a yearling. He was golden buckskin colored till he was two then he gradually darkened he is 5 now and he is now chocolate gold colored. He's two or 3 in the pic above.


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

That's really cool!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

Peppy, do you think Jet will do the same then?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Jet's sire is brown based buckskin. 

As for Jet, it is hard to tell if he is brown or bay, but he is definitely pangare too.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

SunnyMeadeFarm said:


> I was always taught brown isn't really a color, but that's not true for everybody.


I was taught the same thing. However, the gene that causes brown is now isolated, and you can test for it.


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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

Chiilaa said:


> Jet's sire is brown based buckskin.
> 
> As for Jet, it is hard to tell if he is brown or bay, but he is definitely pangare too.


How does pangare work Chiilaa? I'm not sure on the wording but is it a recessive gene? Or is it dominant such as grey and dun? Can it show up on any color or only on Bay or brown?


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Lexiie said:


> Peppy, do you think Jet will do the same then?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not sure if he will stay that dull golden bay color or go darker. I think the pangare will keep him light like he is.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Bridgertrot said:


> How does pangare work Chiilaa? I'm not sure on the wording but is it a recessive gene? Or is it dominant such as grey and dun? Can it show up on any color or only on Bay or brown?


Pangare is not really well understood at this time, just like flaxen. Sometimes it seems to inherit like a recessive, sometimes like a dominant gene. It may be that it is polygenetic - controlled by several genes rather than just one. 

I have seen it on many colours, but never on black. Most Fjords have pangare, and a lot of Haflingers too. Exmoor ponies require it to be registered. As you can see, it is fairly common in breeds of ponies from Europe. However, it does occur in other breeds too - I have seen an Arabian with extensive pangare.

Chestnut:









Bay:









Dun:


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## Reno Bay (Jul 8, 2012)

Peppy Barrel Racing said:


> Thanks guys! I was taught brown wasn't a color as well but now they have found it genetically. Bays are Ag and browns are At. Think I remembered that right.....I hope.


Bay is just A (no g) and brown is At, yes.

I'm almost leaning towards him being bay with pangare. His winter coat doesn't look too much darker than his summer coat. Browns often tend to have a dramatic coat color difference, as displayed by my Reno (haven't tested him yet, but we're all almost certain that he's brown here - he only lightens up around his muzzle though, not his other softy parts). Yes that's the same horse in both pictures...that driveway makes him look so much taller than he is, and he did lose weight that winter.

Winter '11









Summer '12


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

So pangare doesn't seem to be as common in quarter horses then. Thanks for the pangare info chiilaa.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Reno Bay said:


> Bay is just A (no g) and brown is At, yes.
> 
> I'm almost leaning towards him being bay with pangare. His winter coat doesn't look too much darker than his summer coat. Browns often tend to have a dramatic coat color difference, as displayed by my Reno (haven't tested him yet, but we're all almost certain that he's brown here - he only lightens up around his muzzle though, not his other softy parts). Yes that's the same horse in both pictures...that driveway makes him look so much taller than he is, and he did lose weight that winter.
> 
> ...


Thank you for correcting me must of thought Ag for agouti haha. Beautiful horse I think you are right Jet is Bay with pangare. I bet yours will be positive for brown. He certainly is lovely.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Reno while it is true that most browns have a dramatic change from season to season, not all do. Kayella's horse Bubba is a good example of this.

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-colors-genetics/bay-horse-winter-131064/page3/#post1600226


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