# who's are they really?



## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

If they have a bill of sale and you don't then I imagine that they could, because the horses belong to them regardless of who pays their upkeep. 

If they signed a contract with you stating that they were meant to pay a certain amount and you would feed/care for their horses then you could probably hold the horses until they pay the money, or claim ownership for owed money (although its probably a bit more complicated than that).

The best thing to do would be to get a bill of sale. Sometimes people just decide they want their horse back and will rock up and take it. One way would be to send them a letter outlining the money owed to you for their care and offer the accept the horses as payment, or ask that they pay the amount owing. If they're not that into horses they probably would just sign the papers to avoid the hassle. But this could just cause more problems if they get a lawyer to look into it and then just take their horses.


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## Janna (Apr 19, 2012)

They don't have bill of sale or anything to prove they are theirs.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

So basically, what you are saying is that these people own these horses but don't care for them. They are, I'm assuming, boarded on the property? Have they paid board, was there a boarding contract?

Short answer, no you can't claim them. If they came and decided to pick them up, there is nothing you could legally do to stop them.

If you are so worried about paying all the bills for these horses, then tell the owners that they need to start paying for feed/vet/farrier/etc and if they can't then they need to remove the horses from the property.


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## WickedNag (Sep 7, 2010)

Why do you have them? You know they belong to someone else as you stated but they don't spend time with them. What kind of agreement did you have to keep their horses? They may very well still be theirs...


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

If you want to claim them as yours, you'll need to file a lien with the courts and claim the animals are abandoned. You'll be required to produce all receipts for feed, hay, vet, and farrier bills going back at least 24 months. 

Even if you don't have a receipt for hay or the farrier, all the other receipts will prove that you've been providing care.

If you don't have a contract with these owners and don't want to go through the legalities of getting a court order pronouncing the horses as yours, then you don't have any way to prevent the owners from taking them.


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## Janna (Apr 19, 2012)

Well,the owners could take them off if they want i'm not gonna take someones horse from them . I was just wondering how that would work


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

I've always heard that legally something is considered yours in the owners haven't been out in 30 days.


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## Daisy25 (May 29, 2011)

Britt said:


> I've always heard that legally something is considered yours in the owners haven't been out in 30 days.


That definitely depends upon the "something"...

A house or a car would not become 'abandoned property' after only thirty days...but a smaller, less-valuable item like a fishing pole or cookware would qualify.

A horse? I do not think the thirty day rule would apply...


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Exactly what are you asking? If you want to sell them or want them off your property - talk to the absentee owners.

Do you have any type of formal agreement with them?


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

I checked into this at some point because I feared a boarder had abandoned their horse.

What I was told is that you must provide them a written notice to come get their horses. If they do not reply within so many days, you have the choice to contact the Sheriff's office or to claim the horse.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

You can keep those receipts and if they choose to get the horses then you can request payment for your expenses.
If I were you I would politely tell them that they owe you for feeding and caring for the horses and that you will take the horses instead of payment.
If they choose to do this then you get a bill of sale.
If you post no trespassing signs then they cannot just randomly come on your property without permission. As the owner of the property you have a right to control who has access to it and when they can. Shalom


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Janna said:


> Well,the owners could take them off if they want i'm not gonna take someones horse from them . I was just wondering how that would work


Why are you wondering then? If it's a non-issue and you are willing to care, feed and vet someone else's horses, goody on you. If you're not, but you're doing it anyway, then you are being used. Maybe you'd like to have the horses and think that if you do all this stuff the owners will give them to you? If that's the case, then ask them.

I don't understand the point of the question based on the information that has been provided.


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## BigGirlsRideWarmbloods (Mar 28, 2010)

I dont know where you're located but you may want to look in to Stable Keeper Laws also may be known as agister laws, as you may actually have a case of owning the horses.

Im my state of Washington: Equine Legal Solutions - Boarding - Washington Law

RCW 60.56.010 provides Washington persons and businesses with an *automatic* lien on their customers’ horses to satisfy debts incurred in caring for or providing services to those horses, such as boarding and training. This type of lien is sometimes called an agister’s lien, and it means *the facility can refuse to allow a customer’s horses to leave until the bill for those horses is paid in full. *


Texas: Protecting Your Horse During a Dispute : Equine Law Blog

You're going to want to Google for your state, and the lien may not be automatic like they are here, but if the ammount you've spent care has not been recouped, you may very well have a couple of new horses.


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## Janna (Apr 19, 2012)

NorthernMama said:


> Why are you wondering then? If it's a non-issue and you are willing to care, feed and vet someone else's horses, goody on you. If you're not, but you're doing it anyway, then you are being used. Maybe you'd like to have the horses and think that if you do all this stuff the owners will give them to you? If that's the case, then ask them.
> 
> I don't understand the point of the question based on the information that has been provided.



Guess you don't have to understand the point, I just asked the question, seems other people are doing just fine. 


Anyway, to helpful answers, thanks !


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## LetAGrlShowU (Mar 25, 2009)

Janna, that was quite rude to reply with, especially as its a question many other posters have already asked but you danced around without answering. I think its a very valid inquiry. What is your motive for asking this on a public forum?


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## BigGirlsRideWarmbloods (Mar 28, 2010)

I don't think this was rude at all, in fact I think the post she quoted was unnessisarily snarky. This is an absolutly valid question especially for this particular forum. 

If the horses or on her land she is required to take care of them or she could be liable for animal cruelty if they are not taken care of, even if they do not belong to her. 

Her land = her liability.

These Agister laws have been on the books about as long as country has been around, BECAUSE this was and is such a common problem. They CANNOT take the horses off of your property until they've paid the bills. The automatic lien says they are your horses until the outstanding bills are paid in full or they forfit ownership of the collateral (The horses).

Janna: You are doing the right thing. Working in Horse Rescue you would be surprised at the people who do get arrested and cited because the malnutritioned horses "don't belong to me."
Talk to a local horse specific rescue and they can get you connected with whatever resources you need to formalize taking possession of the lien.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LetAGrlShowU (Mar 25, 2009)

BigGirlsRideWarmbloods said:


> I don't think this was rude at all, in fact I think the post she quoted was unnessisarily snarky. This is an absolutly valid question especially for this particular forum.
> 
> If the horses or on her land she is required to take care of them or she could be liable for animal cruelty if they are not taken care of, even if they do not belong to her.
> 
> ...


The question may very well be valid, but so is the inquiry to know the motive. Regardless, leins aren't always automatic, and its not always cut and dry about them having to pay her to take THEIR horses. She hasnt answered if there is a boarding contract, which will make a big difference. not sure what you are getting defensive about... I think knowing where the mentality is coming from is a valid response to her OP.


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## Janna (Apr 19, 2012)

Basically, I just wanted answer to the given information. 

If the one with the bet bills in my name. 
If i'm the one,with the feed bills. Basically everything in my name. They are on my property. And have nothing for them in their name. I wanted to know if anything went down, who would have a bigger advantage, in the end who could most likely end up with them, legally. Because right now it would be like someone walking up, saying random horse is theirs but with no proof, while I do have some things to back Me up. 


Biggirlsridewarmbloods, thanks for that !


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## Calming Melody (May 20, 2012)

If there is no contract between you and these people I would gather they could come and get them whenever they wanted . You could take them to court and if you can't produce some sort of contract saying they would pay you x amount of dollars or would pay back for any bills ect I would say you are s.o.l. The system can be tricky sometimes , you need to have everything in writting in order for anything to hold up in court. Have you even mentioned this to the people that owned them , you know about the vet bills and buying feed ? How long of a period of time are we talking that they haven't been out to see them ? And why haven't you talked to them about this?


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## Calming Melody (May 20, 2012)

I am sure they have some sort of proof that the horses are theirs , be in not a bill of sale , but perhaps previous pictures and if they knew about this thread they could have this to to bring to court ...just saying


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## Janna (Apr 19, 2012)

It's if. These things ended up needed. 
Really though I think I'd just tell them to take their horses either that or return them myself. 
No problem right now I just don't see the harm in knowing these things.


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## Calming Melody (May 20, 2012)

I see where you are coming from but you need to talk it over with them about the vet bills and what nots . They may be hard up for money and think that you were helping them out .. you never know


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## Janna (Apr 19, 2012)

Lol I dunno i'm gonna tell them to start helping out soon cause it's not like were rich either.. 
But we've been 'helping let's for 3 years now with little help and they rarely even check on them. Time to end it


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## Calming Melody (May 20, 2012)

If you let go on for so long and not talked to them about it , then it's not entirely their fault. I mean no offence but 3 years is a long time to go to pay for someone elses horses and personally I wouldn't have done it no where near that long and I would have got some sort of contract saying they would pay for all vet bills and feed. I am a good hearted person and love to help anyone but 3 years is a bit much? I would def talk to them about this and make some sort of other arrangements , that could be they either take them or they sign some sort of contract saying they will start paying on this stuff , or just give up ownership.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Janna said:


> If the one with the bet bills in my name.
> If i'm the one,with the feed bills. Basically everything in my name. They are on my property. And have nothing for them in their name. I wanted to know if anything went down, who would have a bigger advantage, in the end who could most likely end up with them, legally. Because right now it would be like someone walking up, saying random horse is theirs but with no proof, while I do have some things to back Me up.


Now maybe it's just me, but everything you just said here reeks of dishonesty, IMHO. That is what NorthernMama was talking about, I suspect. It sounds to me like you are wanting excuses to claim these horses as your own under the guise of "well, I've been caring for all their needs for x amount of time, so rightfully, they should be mine".

The fact is, these aren't your horses. If you are happy to continue to provide all their care in spite of them not belonging to you, then power to you. If you are tired of caring for them, then notify a lawyer and get the legal paperwork drawn up to either get them off your land or have the owners relinquish ownership of them to you.



> I wanted to know if anything went down, who would have a bigger advantage, in the end who could most likely end up with them, legally.


^^That is what gets me the most. Advantage? They aren't your horses, you _know_ they aren't your horses and those "legal" explanations you're looking for aren't "legal" at all because that would include lying.


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## Gremmy (Feb 17, 2009)

What could hypothetically go down that would call ownership into question? The only thing I can think of is if they wanted to move their horses? Do you mean if an emergency occurred and the horses ended up loose and needing to be claimed?

In the end though, the horses belong to them no matter how many vet invoices and receipts you have. I guess they may have trouble proving ownership if you decided to lie in court and claim they have always been yours?


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## Calming Melody (May 20, 2012)

There is always a way for the truth to come out and I am sure they have got pictures of them from previous years and who knows , they may even still know the people that they got the horses from ... You never know ? I am gathering that these people are your friends or something and that you didn't let complete strangers leave their horses with you ...What started this all to begin with, how did you end up with the horses 3 years ago and why ? What was said about feeding and vet bills? Surely there was some sort of conversation about this? People just don't drop off horses without permission and say ok here ya go !


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## Janna (Apr 19, 2012)

The question I asked has been answered.
Just, so the nosey ones know. 
I don't understand why people on here can't just answer a question and/or leave. 

But anyway, i'm done


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## Calming Melody (May 20, 2012)

In order to answer a question properly people need all of the backround information. With all do respect we didn't start this thread , you did.


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## Janna (Apr 19, 2012)

Yes. I know. But either way, I got the answer I needed.


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## Calming Melody (May 20, 2012)

If you can't take the heat from people asking legit questions to answer a question that you posted , don't post anymore. You just sound like you are trying to take these peoples horses anyways .


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## Janna (Apr 19, 2012)

How are you gonna go telling someone they can't post anymore? I can if I want to. I don't want those horses. But they never take care of them and the time we did leave they ended up severely underweight not that any of these things are any of your business. If you don't know the reasons, which obviously you don't, you can go ahead and take your own advice.


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## Calming Melody (May 20, 2012)

What I said was if you can't take the heat then don't post anymore . I wasn't telling you not to post anymore. Don't you have your own horses as well , so would it be safe to assume that if while you were gone and those horses ended up underweight that yours did to?


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## Janna (Apr 19, 2012)

No, my horses went with me. 

assuming things, you know nothing about this, once again. And don't need to, that's not what the post was about. Was just a question.


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## Calming Melody (May 20, 2012)

Hey, I'm not the one who was getting all defensive when people were asking legit questions to answer your question properly! There is no reason to act like that , and when people aren't given the proper information all they have to go on is assumptions. You may "think" you have the answer to your question , but with as little information as you did give I would highly doubt it would be correct in helping you.


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## Janna (Apr 19, 2012)

Was just asking based on the info given, got my answer, yes this can be taken care of. If needed. 
Right now, the horses are fine. I'm going to do as I said earlier first of all and suggest to them they start helping with their horses. and whatever else I will need to do to keep them taken care of I will do. 
don't really know why this is so important to you.


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## Calming Melody (May 20, 2012)

It's not important to me , but just seems odd that you wait 3 years to talk to them , seems a little odd in my opinion....but hey you know what they say about opinions ! Everyone has got one! I do know that if I didn't want someone elses horse I wouldn't be taking care of them regardless, I would have taken them back home...just saying !


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## Janna (Apr 19, 2012)

I don't want them for myself, I have my own great guys but I also don't want them neglected. I may be leaving not super soon but i'm not going to be here forever for a fact. I just want them to start participating in the care of them I guess I could say. Geez, ask if the horse is alive still. For all they know they could be dead now anyway. If they don't start helping somehow before I leave I guess I'll figure out how to get them for myself and rehomed if I'd Prolly see if they will sell them to begin with. if not then, something else will definitely be happening


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## Calming Melody (May 20, 2012)

I think either way you are going to try and find a way to keep the horses and sell them for payment or profit for keeping them up. I am done with this post because honestly I know these people aren't helping out , from what you say, but no offence something seems shady here !


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## Janna (Apr 19, 2012)

Alright, cool xD 
Whatever you wanna think.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Calming Melody, I agree with you. A dishonest person will always be a dishonest person and the fact that the OP had even thought about this enough to consider asking about it speaks great volumes about her integrity....or lack thereof.


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## Rascaholic (Oct 4, 2010)

Deleted stuff

I'd be getting an attorney and finding out legal options. I'd also be enrolling in charm school 101 classes.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Janna, we open our hearts and there's always someone who will stomp on it. Perhaps the owners are too busy to visit the horses yet they must feel confident they are ok at your place. If you continue to pick up the slack, they won't. I hope your chat with the owners turns out favourably.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

I just gave away a 2 year old mare that someone brought here in Dec to have me work with and board.
He was supposed to do work aroung the farm for payment.
He showed up about 4 times.
The mare had never had a shot, her feet trimmed or was halter broken.
at the first of March she foaled a colt that was stillborn.
I called the vet to make sure she was alright and that whatever it was would not infect my horses.
He demanded his horse back and even showed up witha trailer .
I told him to get off my property and to bring me 1500$ for upkeep vet bill, and board.
I just got this mare back from having her trained and gave her away to a good home.
He did show up with a sherrif who told him it was a civil matter and that since I had no trespassing signs he could not just walk into my pasture and get the horse. Shalom


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