# helmets over rated? Or not?



## madyasmkey (Jan 26, 2014)

I myself ride with a helmet, only because I have to though. I do think helmets are good and prevent damage to the head, I find that they can cause people to be unsafe. Like "Oh, I can jump that 8ft fence with my 12hh pony, it's safe because I have a hat on" obviously exaggerated; do you get my point? A lot of people rely on helmets and would do something with their house without a helmet, taking the keeping your head protected out of the equation, you can still be paralysed and break books and although body protectors help a little, they do say on the tags that they are not designed to protect the back.

My main point is that if you're not willing to do something without the protection of a hat, someone shouldn't think it is okay to do it with one. I know most people on here probably don't do things they aren't competent comfortable with because they have a hat on, if they do then probably like me and would do it regardless of protection. 

I'm just saying this because I your annoyed with someone recently that said although they weren't confident they could do it, they felt save because they had a hat on. I called them a moron and got punched, but thought instead of going into school after half term and getting excluded for hurting some kid, I'd express what I thought on the Internet about them and hope they find it.


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

If you search a little, you'll find lots and lots of threads on this topic.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

They are not overrated if you have an interest in protecting your brain cells.

As for doing something beyond your ability just because you have a helmet on...well, that's stupidity.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Dustbunny said:


> They are not overrated if you have an interest in protecting your brain cells.
> 
> As for doing something beyond your ability just because you have a helmet on...well, that's stupidity.


Just this....covers it all


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I have a scar around the side of my head and some vague memories of the excruciating pain of getting my skull fractured
It would not have been anything like as bad if I'd had a helmet on and hadn't been such an idiot who thought that nothing awful could happen to me 'just hacking out'
That was a lesson I'd rather not have learnt the hard way!!!


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## madyasmkey (Jan 26, 2014)

That's what I mean. It really annoys me that a lot of people I know are only willing to do things because they have a helmet. Don't get me wrong, I love my helmets because they keep me safer than I would be without one (also keep my head warm) this person just really grated on me than someone could be so stupid. 

I'm not the greatest common sense wise and I do some stupid things with my horse, but not because I think I'm safe from wearing a hat, because I find it quite funny when my horse either puts up with me, or throws me off and I don't try that one again.


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## TimWhit91 (Feb 3, 2012)

I grew up not wearing one. I have been lucky in a couple of accidents that I didnt get hurt worse than I should have. The older I get (23) the less invincible I feel. I will probably be getting myself a helmet soon. It would make me feel better training the youngsters at least
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Zeke (Jun 27, 2010)

I do not believe over rated at all, they more often then not serve the exact purpose they claim to and I don't hear many people say they wish they hadn't been wearing one. 

However, no, it shouldn't make you feel invincible. I typically feel a little more comfortable with a helmet on but it in no way gives me permission to try something outside of my skill set.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

Foolish riders will do stupid things, helmet or no helmet. The difference is that when they fall off hopefully their head is still intact.

I've seen no evidence that riders wearing helmets somehow feel any more "invincible" than riders without, but then again there's absolutely nowhere I've ridden around here in many years where helmets were not mandatory. 

We could go without with our lease horses, but I'm not that stupid. We don't even mount without our helmets on.


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## madyasmkey (Jan 26, 2014)

I wanna go to America. A lot of people seem to have more sense than the people I know. Maybe it's just my age group? I don't know, but I'm pretty stupid with my horse and open about it. People of my age are very conscious about what they do, but what they do depends on if they have a helmet. I knew someone that rode a loopy pony that hasn't been exercised in weeks, just got on, no Jay and was save because she wasn't jumping. She was twice the size of this pony so she probably couldn't misbehave, but she was so stupid. The worst part about it was that she got on because it was playing up for her sister. I mean, if she'd had a hat on she'd have been a bit safer and a lot of people would have accepted it on my yard if she would have put a hat on, saw nothing else won't with it. People about me.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

People who have been around the block a few times KNOW that helmets only protect a narrow type of injury. They will not keep you from breaking your neck, back or limbs, they will not protect you from internal injuries or even concussion (coup/counter coup injuries). anyone who thinks they cannot get injured with a helmet on is looking for an education. I hope they survive the learning process.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

Oh boy, another helmet thread.

These helmet threads are like a bad penny.....about the time one dies down another comes back around.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

Allison Finch said:


> anyone who thinks they cannot get injured with a helmet on is looking for an education. I hope they survive the learning process.


I don't discredit your thinking, but your *brain* is the key to everything else.

You can break bones, your back, heck, even your neck up to a certain point and still survive. I have a C1-C2 spinal fusion, so I'm pretty well versed in that, having had more than a few frank discussions with my neurosurgeon about the topic. 

However, Turn your brain into Jello or crack your skull open, and chances are it's over.

Ultimately, the potential for life vs almost certain death. Seems like a good reason to wear a brain bucket to me. Yeah, they don't make you invincible, but I think that's just common sense.


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## Cielo Notturno (Sep 12, 2013)

Meh

I ride with helmet, and usually a vest too. This way if I fall at least my head and spine are a little protected. I still have arms and legs and hands and feet that can be broken, so no I don't feel invincible.


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## madyasmkey (Jan 26, 2014)

Sorry, didn't realise this was a common thing, I went back a few pages to see if anyone had brought it up, I couldn't find one. This was more of a moan than a preach


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

PrivatePilot said:


> I don't discredit your thinking, but your *brain* is the key to everything else.
> 
> .


I totally agree. However, a helmet will not thoroughly protect your brain for much more than an open head injury. Concussions will still be a problem, helmet or not. A sudden deceleration injury will have the brain bouncing all over the cranial cavity, bruising each time it hits the skull. Anyone who counts on a helmet saving a brain injury is naïve, IMO. I spent too many years at wreck scenes to believe they are a save-all. 

That said, I don't get on a horse, very often, without one.


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## madyasmkey (Jan 26, 2014)

I've only ever ridden without a helmet by accident. I always got told in the middle of a schooling session that I didn't have one on, so I'd get of there and then, leave my house to wander around so she didn't get stiff and come back with my hat. One time I did get told off for going on a hack without one, no-one had seen me leave so I didn't notice until I got back 4 hours later.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

Allison Finch said:


> Anyone who counts on a helmet saving a brain injury is naïve, IMO. I spent too many years at wreck scenes to believe they are a save-all.


I totally agree - they are not a "magic forcefield", but it's also niave to suggest that they don't *help.*

One only need look at motorcycle wreck statistics....and be sure you are looking at _factual scientific facts_, not the often unfounded rhetoric, skewed statistics and fuzzy "Facts" from the anti-helmet lobby (cyclists have their own, as well) that play with the numbers to fit their goals. It's important to make sure you're making judgements based on actual data.

The scientific facts tell a tale of helmets working.



> During 2008–2010, a total of 14,283 motorcyclists were killed in crashes, among whom 6,057 (42%) were not wearing a helmet. In the 20 states with a universal helmet law, 739 (12%) fatally injured motorcyclists were not wearing a helmet, compared with 4,814 motorcyclists (64%) in the 27 states with partial helmet laws and 504 (79%) motorcyclists in the three states without a helmet law.


Source: Helmet Use Among Motorcyclists Who Died in Crashes and Economic Cost Savings Associated With State Motorcycle Helmet Laws — United States, 2008–2010

Yes, horses are not motorcycles, but helmets are helmets.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

PrivatePilot said:


> I totally agree - they are not a "magic forcefield", but it's also niave to suggest that they don't *help.*




I'm not sure where you got the impression that I don't think helmets "help". I doubt I would be so careful to always wear one if I thought that.




> Yes, horses are not motorcycles, but helmets are helmets.


 True, but they will never completely protect from head injuries. Look at football helmets. They are probably the most advanced helmet design, yet they say in a study....



> So far, none of the three major football helmet manufacturers make any claim about reduction or prevention of concussion. In fact they are all agreed that a helmet offers protection, but no helmet is a guarantee against concussion.


 Do Helmets Prevent Concussions

The bottom line, going back to the OP, is that nothing will totally protect you except your exercising diligence where your health is concerned. Even then, Ka Ka happens.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

The science of motorcycle safety is not applicable to horses.

Studies vary on the effectiveness of helmets and riding accidents. The statistics I've seen indicate helmets reduce the chance of serious head injury by 50-80% if the fall is one that would result in a head injury. Many falls do not.

Jumping with horses increases the risk of falling on one's noggin. How much? Maybe 10-40 fold. Most of the studies I've found were done in the 90s or early 2000 range. Someone who rides in a western or dressage style is more likely to land on their back than their head, and a lot less likely to fall off in the first place. Interestingly, several studies indicated there were more head injuries working around horses on the ground than riding them on the flats.

So if safety is your goal, avoid horses. If you are willing to accept some risk, then decide how much and what you are willing to do to minimize it. At 55, I'm risk adverse. I took one tumble off a horse since I started riding. It was in Jan 2009, and my right lower back still hurts a couple of times a week due to it. Even now, there are days I stop riding after 30 minutes because my back hurts too much. Something like that encourages caution! I just can't heal the way I did 30-40 years ago!

So...for me: I don't jump. There isn't much where I live that is safe to jump, and my mare has a mild club foot that probably wouldn't bother her - but I'd be miserable if I asked her to jump and then she had an injury. I like my English jump saddle, but only for riding in our little arena. Off property, I'll use an Australian saddle, or more recently a western saddle. If things turn ugly, an Australian saddle is pretty hard to fall out of, and a western isn't far behind.

I wear a helmet about 95+% of the time. If I forget, I don't go back or quit...the helmet isn't THAT important to me. The one fall I had was helmetless, but I landed 2 feet from a bunch of large, jagged rocks that could have cracked my skull with ease. And while Mia is much calmer than she used to be, she still has her moments. She is also a klutz, and a helmet could save me if SHE falls down!

But I'd as soon be emasculated as tell another rider (not my daughter) to put on a helmet. My daughter is happy with the helmet, but I have had less luck at convincing her that stirrups are a good idea on trail rides. Oh well.

To me, a helmet is cheap insurance. Federico Caprilli was killed when his horse slipped on ice or cobblestones. My normal trail riding starts with a quarter mile of pavement, and my mare is no more graceful than I am. But a helmet should be viewed as one part of a system. Saddle, horse, training, etc all play a part. A prudent person considers all the factors and decides how much risk to accept.

And if they are not a minor member of my family? I'll accept their judgment and keep my mouth shut. :wink:


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

Allison Finch said:


> I'm not sure where you got the impression that I don't think helmets "help". I doubt I would be so careful to always wear one if I thought that.


We are on the same page, just reading the words on the page differently, that's all. And I apologize if my wording (specifically the word "naive") came across wrong (I'm sometimes too blunt for my own good) but I was saying what I said in a generalized term directed towards everyone.

I'm very cautious with what I say around here in many regards as I know that there are a lot of young minds reading our words. I'm very pro helmet, and it shows, so I'm just very cautious about saying anything that would make a young, inexperienced, or downright beginner rider somehow think that helmets aren't a good idea, or just not wearing one is a viable option. Like I've alluded to, every little bit helps - body armour they are not, but generally worthwhile, they are. :wink:


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

My mom fell off her horse yesterday for the first time in ten years. I haven't fallen off since I was six, and I never saw that pony agian, poor cody...

Anyways, my mom had a very hard fall. She was loping her horse and for whatever reason he become a racehorse (and he would be the best no doubt with that speed an energy, with a bonus of being to calm.)
She knew she was goingt o fall because she lost her balance, so instead od choosing to flip over his head she started to get off on the side. He fell hard and her helmet went CRRAACCKKKKKK!!
If she didn't have her helmet on I don't even know if she would be here today, because even though it wasn't a far fall, it was HARD. She isn't hurt or anything, but if she weren't wearing a helmet she would be hurting.

Just another thing to add - you know how most horses decide to continue on running went he rider falls? Well, he have a good little guy because he stopped and *backed up* and *waited *for my mom to get up. He didn't move a hoof after he finished backing.

I haven't fallen since i was six, and in march that will be ten years without any falls. But I know I am next because 1. my littlest guy is a butt and has an eveil plan to get me off inluding bucking (hasn't worked yet), rubbing me off using the metal fencing, sharp turns while trotting to mak me lose my balance, etc. But he is getting better. And 2, I ride bareback. 

But anyways - that is my story.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"just not wearing one is a viable option"

I've yet to see someone on a ranch wearing a helmet.

And as far as I can tell, statistically a person who doesn't jump while having a bare noggin is less likely to injure their head than someone who jumps while wearing one. Yet I would never argue that "jumping is not a viable option on a horse".



bsms said:


> I wear a helmet when I ride. I'm in my 50s, wear bifocals, am a bit overweight and look like a dork because I'm an awkward rider. I'm not much worried about how I look, being cool or social acceptance. That said, lots of the helmet threads are kind of thin on facts. So below you'll find some stuff I found on the Internet about the risks of riding. I only found one study addressing how helmets impact safety and I underlined it.
> 
> *Horseback Riding*
> 
> ...


http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding/helmets-injuries-some-studies-long-81416/

And just so folks understand: I love a forward seat and I admire jumping and those who enjoy it. I'd like to take lessons someday, just not on my mare Mia...:?


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

bsms said:


> I've yet to see someone on a ranch wearing a helmet.


I rank that in the same category as US states without motorcycle helmet laws. You can still wear a helmet in them, but social pressures and a desire to "fit in with the crowd" frequently discourages such.

I've traveled the US extensively as part of my job. I've seen first hand a big burly Harley rider poke fun at a sportbike rider who was wearing a helmet in a state where it was optional. The sportbike guy still put it back on and rode off, much to his credit, but "peer pressure" was sure evident.

Could ranch hands wear helmets? Absolutely - I don't see anything logistically or practically that would prevent it, unless there's something glaring that I'm missing about the profession. BUT...image, and likely the risk of being "razzed" about it by fellow ranch hands often (likely?) discourages it. Heck, they make helmets that look like western cowboy hats now for those who still put their image above the potential for increased safety, but how many of those have you ever seen out there? Not many from my observations.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

My friend has a ranch in Utah. He hires sheepherders from South America who do not know how to ride, gives them a 10 minute lesson (often using sign language) on how to ride a horse, then sends them into the mountains to ride a solid horse while herding sheep. They will spend 6-12-whatever hours in the saddle, in rough country. My friend and his sons work the cattle, which are also run in very rough country far from the nearest paved roads.

In 30+ years, no one has had a significant head injury riding a horse. 

THAT is why they do not wear helmets. What would the incentive be? 

And while I don't mind wearing my helmet for an hour or two, I'd rather wear a cowboy hat for riding in Arizona in the summer. For a 12 hour day, my choice would also be a cowboy hat instead of a helmet, for reasons I first learned working for the Division of Wildlife Resources in Utah in 1980. (Happily, I bought a $20 Stetson the week before Urban Cowboy was released and the Stetsons started costing $60).

I am a fan of helmets. I use one. But the folks riding western who do not wear helmets are not as dumb as sometimes thought, nor are they making decisions based on peer pressure. If you do not know anyone who has injured their head doing X, then what will your perception of the risk of X be?

I'm not trying to talk anyone out of wearing a helmet. But helmets are only one part of the equation, and I think a lot of folks focus on that part and forget about the rest.


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## Zeke (Jun 27, 2010)

Peer pressure is unfortunately a huge issue that I wish more people could push past. However, I'm one to talk....I insisted in wearing a helmet during mounted drill practice, and one year I was the only rider who did so, unfortunately I was NOT ALLOWED to wear a helmet while we preformed at the rodeo. No, not even if I found a way to get my hat over it, or to buy a stylized western helmet. I joined the team knowing this, I wasn't exactly bullied. The cowboy/girl tradition is a strong one and will not be easily shaken. 

This is where I step in and say that helmet wear is entirely personal. I try my best not to belittle those who choose not to wear a helmet, even though I don't entirely agree with them, and in my most polite tone tell them to shove it if they belittle me for my personal choice to wear a helmet.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

You have to understand that a helmet does not make you invincible. It protects your head, not your neck, back, etc. 

However....I wear one. It DOES protect my head, and I feel better knowing that my parents are not going to have to take care of me as a living vegetable when I fall on my head without a helmet. 

In addition, my discipline does a great job at pushing people into the mindset that helmets are just another part of everyday riding gear. Eventers are pretty darn safety conscious! ;-)


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Private pilot, you and I do agree. Not only do I wear a helmet, I won't teach anyone who is not wearing one. I think they are, at least, a first line of defense. And not just when I am jumping.

Sadly, Courtney King showed us that even Olympic level riders can get tossed. And, dressage riders are not immune. It has taken her years to regain a fraction of what she was, and she will never ride competitively again. As a result of this, The Dressage world has new rules about wearing helmets......in competition. Sadly, many still think dressage horses can't do much harm while schooling. I like the look of a helmet with a shadbelly.










and the baddest of the bad cowboys are seeing the use of helmets, too.

This one is really about to NEED it.



















If these bad boys can wear a helmet, so can any western rider.


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

I, personally, do not wear a helmet. I've fallen off a horse once (and fallen after getting off a horse twice lol..bailed on one and slipped on mud during the other)..none resulted in me even hitting my head, or even coming close. The only actual fall..I fell on my back, and I planned it that way. According to everyone (I don't remember my air-time due to adrenaline), I came off over her shoulder, twisted, and fell onto my back with arms out and my head tucked toward my chest. I was taught how to fall in martial arts/combat classes, and it works. I've also ridden some nasty horses (rearers, broncs, etc), and I've never come off not one of them. The fall above was because I took someone's word for how the horse rode without trying it myself, stupidity on my part and wasn't even thinking she'd do anything but run the barrel pattern. My fault and not the horses, but after that fall, I realized to never take word on a horse and to actually see what the horse does with ME before I become complacent. Since then, I've ridden many bucks, fixed rearers, crow-hops, etc..and haven't even come unseated, let alone fall.

I don't think I'm the best rider out there by any means, and I know I could still use some work..But I feel perfectly safe without a helmet..no need to fix something that isn't broke.

On top of that..I wore a helmet once and ended up hanging off the side of the horse because he turned (and I even asked him to) and not only was my balance affected, the helmet made me claustrophobic. I wasn't paying any attention to the horse and it's movements, only the helmet.

So, for me, I believe a helmet only makes me more prone to injury (of any kind) because all my focus is on that and not the horse. Without a helmet, I can usually tell when a horse will rear, buck, give attitude, take off, etc..I can't focus on any of those signs with a helmet.

If I was a jumper, I'd probably hope I could get use to the helmet idea (probably on a steady-eddy on a lungeline lol). But then again, I can't see my fat *** in breaches instead of jeans xD

ETA
Allison, I'm glad you posted that..lol. I almost forgot to mention broncs. If I'm going to go to a rodeo and ride broncs..sure, I'll put a helmet on, but it's going to be a totally different feeling helmet than your normal riding helmet. Not to mention..the majority of us western riders aren't riding bulls and broncs..I can't speak for anyone, but until I know I can ride a horse and they aren't going to turn bronc, I'll be in a deep sanded arena and not going anywhere near the walls/rail. After that stage..I'm riding a horse that's probably NOT going to throw a bronc fit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

I've fallen off horses a handful of times as well, and thankfully never once whacked my head during the fall..but I still wear a helmet. It's a little late to wish I had worn it once the damage is done, and you can't freeze time halfway through a fall to change your mind and put it on. I'm very conscious of the fact that falls are often over before you even know they're coming, and I'm also conscious of the fact that every fall is different, so I don't assume that because I've never hit my head on any of my falls to date that I won't in the future.

I suspect if you ask anyone who's suffered a head injury as a result of not wearing one you'd find that despite all the excuses, reasonings, justifications, and every other excuse they used to _personally_ justify their decision to themselves BEFORE the accident, their attitude suddenly changed.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Iseul said:


> I don't think I'm the best rider out there by any means, and I know I could still use some work..But I feel perfectly safe without a helmet..*no need to fix something that isn't broke*.



Depends on what you want to break. If you think you are a better rider than Ms. King and will never fall on your head (I'm sure she thought the same thing) so be it.

Darwin believed in culling the less viable. Why play into Darwin's hands?





> On top of that..I wore a helmet once and ended up hanging off the side of the horse because he turned (and I even asked him to) and not only was my balance affected, the helmet made me claustrophobic. I wasn't paying any attention to the horse and it's movements, only the helmet.


 You are supposed to attach the harness to keep it on your head....:twisted:



> So, for me, I believe a helmet only makes me more prone to injury (of any kind) because all my focus is on that and not the horse. Without a helmet, I can usually tell when a horse will rear, buck, give attitude, take off, etc..I can't focus on any of those signs with a helmet.


 Wow. I can't even comment.



> If I was a jumper, I'd probably hope I could get use to the helmet idea (probably on a steady-eddy on a lungeline lol). But then again, I can't see my fat *** in breaches instead of jeans xD


For anyone thinking they are too good to worry about a head injury

Courtney King-Dye Injured in Fall from Horse



> I can't speak for anyone, but until I know I can ride a horse and they aren't going to turn bronc, I'll be in a deep sanded arena and not going anywhere near the walls/rail. *After that stage..I'm riding a horse that's probably NOT going to throw a bronc fit.
> *_Posted via Mobile Device_


 all it takes is one moment when the horse bolts in fear....or whatever. But, if you are an adult, it is certainly your decision. When I was a medic, I transported more than a few riders to the ER from a sudden landing.


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## jackboy (Jul 8, 2012)

The only reason the pbr are wearing helmets is that they are mandatory now if your just coming in but if you were already riding you can chose not to wear one. No one I know wears a helmet must be a dressage thing I guess


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I know a lot of trainers say they cannot feel the hrose as well with a helmet on. I wonder why? it doesn't cover your ears, does not deaden sound in any way, and the modern ones are so light you hardly know they are there. only in a very hot climate would I see myself thiniking I could not feel a hrose as well with a helmet on , becuase I was thinking about being too hot.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

jackboy said:


> The only reason the pbr are wearing helmets is that they are mandatory now if your just coming in but if you were already riding you can chose not to wear one. No one I know wears a helmet must be a dressage thing I guess


BWAHAHAHA!! yeah, it's a sissy dressage thing!! :lol:


































Even the best behaved horse can suddenly turn it on


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## Koolio (Apr 7, 2010)

ATGATT. "All the gear all the time" is a saying we use in the motorcycle world that I think applies just as well to the horse world. I always ride with a helmet and proper boots and feel naked without them. My daughter does as well. We both know the helmet won't keep us safe all the time, but if the unexpected happens it may keep us alive. We also both know not to take unnecessary risks and agree neither of us will ever ride alone without checking in with someone regarding where we are going and when we will be back.

Last summer she was riding her pony in the yard while I was mowing grass and the horse slipped and fell. She fell off and hit her head on relatively soft ground sustaining a mild concussion, even with her helmet on. She didn't know how she got out in the field and didn't remember that she was riding or even recall putting on her riding clothes. She was almost 18, an excellent rider and fell from a 13.5 hand pony onto the grass in the field with no rocks simply because the horse slipped. It was a freak accident and I cannot imagine how bad it could have been if she wasn't wearing a helmet. 
I got caught without a helmet once last year when my friend asked if I wanted to try out her horse and new saddle for a walk around the arena. I haven't come off a horse in years and hadn't been without a helmet until that one day, and I ride a lot. In this one five minute time period without a helmet, that horse bronced me royally and tossed me like a small doll. Luckily I didn't land on my head. I will not get on a horse without a helmet ever again. It just isn't worth the risk.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

I took a CRACKING fall on the cross country course in a major event many years ago. That was back in the day when you could remount and finish the course. I got through the finish flags and passed out. On inspecting the helmet, it was broken. I can only imagine what my head might have looked like without it. I was projectile vomiting for two days. That was NOT a good sign, but I was the "stoic" who wanted to finish the show. I could have paid dearly for that decision. I was very lucky.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

It is illegal for a child to ride without a helmet in the UK. 

I had a very simple fall, at a *walk, *off a young horse. He spooked as we were walking home, jumped to the side, landed on the side of the bank, lost his feet and went down, I was fired over his head and landed head first on the road ending on my back with my head facing him. The horse tried not to stand on me as I was directly in front of him but caught me with a hoof on the face as he tried to get up. 
My helmet was shattered with a large star fracture. I got up with the feeling that my ears were at shoulder level, but I was walking wounded. Had to have stitches in my eyebrow where he had caught me. 
I am sure that had I not been wearing a helmet I would have been seriously injured.

It is different riding western to English. You are more tied into the saddle but, if a horse goes down and you are catapulted out the saddle then a helmet would be of help.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Allison Finch said:


> ...And not just when I am jumping.
> 
> Sadly, Courtney King showed us that even Olympic level riders can get tossed. And, dressage riders are not immune...
> 
> If these bad boys can wear a helmet, so can any western rider.


From the viewpoint of SAFETY, there are two ways of looking at it. 

1 - An accident can happen to anyone at any time, so all safety gear is appropriate at all times. From this perspective, we should all wear body protectors at all times, because falls from a horse could break your back at any time. We all ought to wear helmets. And since multiple studies have indicated a person is more likely to have a head injury while working on the ground around horses, we all ought to wear a helmets all the time we are around horses, and not just when riding. Frankly, we ought to look like dirt bike riders every time we are near a horse.

After all, if you really want to be safe around horses, your best bet is to stay away from horses.

2 - To be safe, you look at what is most likely to cause an injury and eliminate or reduce that. And when it comes to riding, you are most likely to injure your head when jumping.

Again, anyone who is jumping increases their risk well beyond what a helmet reduces it, so their OVERALL risk of injury is greater. And yes, anyone who rides broncos in a rodeo is also in a high risk activity, as are bull riders. No kidding!

But folks riding on the flat are at much lower risk ALREADY.

USCTA Accident Statistics for 1990 and 1991:"_The place where most accidents occurred was on cross country. Cross country involves jumping fixed obstacles at speed. If a horse hits one of these obstacles, either the rider or horse and rider will fall. The second most common area was either stadium or other unspecified. Warmup areas for the jumping phases were the next most likely place for an injury. It comes as no surprise the jumping phases accounted for 86% of the injuries. Dressage accounted for only 1% and the stable area and other accounted for 12%, again indicating the surprisingly large number of unmounted injuries..._​
_...Obviously, the risk of injury increases with the number of jumping efforts not to mention the height and speed at which they are jumped. It should also be noted that one rider accounted for 25% of the incident reports at Advanced. Of the Advanced injuries, all were from falls on cross country. One involved bruises only, three fell without serious injury, one fell with a slight concussion and three sustained fractures. One rider fractured a jaw and cheekbone, one fractured ribs, his pelvis, and sustained a concussion and one fractured a clavicle. Of these 8 injuries, 6 were at CCI Three Day Events, when the horse may be more fatigued, and 3 were at horse trials. There were no non-jumping accidents in the advanced group, indicating perhaps a smaller risk by this group to sustain unmounted stable injuries. _" ​American Medical Equestrian Associaton

Look at that ratio: 86% in the jump phase, 1% in the dressage phase, and 12 percent unmounted. Further, the 86% during the jump phase literally came mostly within yards of a jump, not on the flats between jumps."_The United States Pony Clubs Accident report for 1999 states that cross country schooling accounted for 22.5% of accidents, a percentage that was much larger than the time and numbers involved..._

_ ...Jumping is the most dangerous horse riding activity. In Australia, injury rates were found to be especially high among event riders and in the USA cross country schooling accounted for 22.5% of accidents at pony clubs. USCTA statistics show that most serious injuries occurred in a jumping phase. There were 12 back injuries in 1993 and seven in 1995, all occurring in cross country._

_ Jockeys in the USA had a very high injury rate in 1997 and dorsal/lumbar spine injuries were the most common injury. In the UK the Jockey Club reports that point to pointing is more dangerous than any other horse riding activity, carrying the risk of a fall in one in seven rides, injury one in 42 rides and one in 4.5 falls._"​Spinal injuries resulting from horse riding accidents

The point is NOT that you are completely protected from a head injury by not jumping. However, your risk of a fall is much lower when not jumping. Since a helmet only protects your head, even a 75% reduction would not make jumping as safe as riding without a helmet on the flat.

If you wear a helmet on the flat, you DO decrease your risk overall, but the overall reduction in risk is smaller because you were at much lower risk to begin with. 

To make the math easy:

If there is a 50% chance of falling doing X, and helmets reduce the injuries by 90%, then wearing a helmet during X reduces your overall risk by 45%. However, if there is a 0.5% chance of falling doing Y, and the helmet reduces the risk of injury by 90%, your overall risk reduction is only 0.45%. And the greatest risk reduction would come from eliminating X, which would reduce your risk by 50%.

From South Africa:
"_The conclusion to Sorli’s (2000) five-year study was that head injuries and other serious traumatic injuries occur with equestrian activities and the use of appropriate safety equipment, including helmets should be promoted. Abu-Zidan andRao (2003)found that those with a helmet had significantly less incidence of intracranial injuries than those not wearing one and Fantus and Fildes (2007) found a fourfold greater mortality for the non-helmeted rider compared to those wearing a helmet._

_ Of all the horse riding activities, according to Silver (2002) and Paix (1999) jumping is most likely to produce an injury, and according to Paix (1999), the cross country phase of eventing is more than 70 times as dangerous as horse riding in general, with an overall injury rate of one per 14 hours of cross country riding..._

_ ...Table 4.9 shows that most injuries occurred whilst jumping (63.8%) and the least occurred during flatwork (10.3%). ["Hacking" was 25.9%]..._

_ ...Helmet use was negatively associated with head injuries. Showing that helmet use is effective in preventing head injuries. This could be due to improved helmet protective design, compulsory wearing of helmets that meet safety standards at competitions and the majority of riders wearing helmets when jumping, which is where the most severe injuries occur (Section 5.3.2.2.4). Moss, Wan and Whitlock (2002) review of findings between 1971 and 1991 found that helmet use is assisting in reducing the incidence of skull fractures and severity of the injury._

_ Fantus and Fildes (2007) found a fourfold greater mortality for the non-helmeted rider and Abu-Zidan and Rao (2003) comparatively found that those with a helmet had significantly less incidence of intracranial injuries than those who did not..._"
​http://ir.dut.ac.za/bitstream/handle/10321/537/Catlin_2010.pdf?sequence=1

Is it worthwhile to wear a helmet? I think so, most of the time. For long rides under the Arizona sun, maybe not - depending on the horse, the rider and the area. But I see little harm in wearing a helmet most of the time and I want a *4-fold decrease in mortality if I fall* - even if my chance of falling is small compared to a jumper.

But ignoring the role of jumping in the number of head injuries is ignoring the elephant in the living room. Those who jump (not me) and those who admire jumping (including me) have no business pointing fingers at non-jumpers who do not wear helmets and calling them names or saying it presents an unacceptable risk. A western rider, riding on the flats without a helmet, has a lower probability of head injury than someone jumping while wearing a helmet. If the latter is an acceptable risk, then in what sense is the former an unacceptable one?

What is an acceptable level of overall risk? That is for the individual to decide. I will not ride a motorcycle, but will ride horses. My BIL refuses to get on a horse, but rides a motorcycle daily. We both think the other is nuts! But since I make decisions for anyone riding one of MY horses, everyone riding MY horses will wear a helmet. I think the OP & all other riders ought to wear one as well - but I will not lecture them (although if a minor, I might lecture their parents)!.


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## CandyCanes (Jul 1, 2013)

It's the law in Ireland to wear a helmet. Simple as. I also so don't think helmets are overrated. They might save your life. You can't over rate a potentially life saving piece of equipment.


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

Allison Finch said:


> Depends on what you want to break. If you think you are a better rider than Ms. King and will never fall on your head (I'm sure she thought the same thing) so be it.
> 
> Darwin believed in culling the less viable. Why play into Darwin's hands?
> 
> ...


Yupp, I'm must just be an egotistical idiot. :roll:

And with the harness comment, you probably could've reworded that. If you mean the clip on the helmet (in which the helmet fit fine and WAS buckled), no need to get smart.

I gave my opinion and my experience, I don't see why it's okay to bash me for having it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

I don't think your point really makes sense. 

You are complaining that these people do things that they wouldn't do without a helmet, when wearing a helmet, like the helmets make them feel a certain way. It's pretty true though, a lot of people won't ride at all without a helmet. Or won't leave an arena or won't ride a strange horse. These aren't considered strange things, it's pretty normal actually. People make choices all the time to do things based on the safety gear they wear. Like people will ride motorbikes with helmets, and bicycles too, the drive with seat belts, they boat with life jackets. It's the same with riding. 

If people are idiots with their riding... well that's just them. It's got nothing to do with helmets, and really I'm pretty sure that person knows it, people are willing to spit out any excuse for their behaviour. 

It's no different in the US. It might even be worse, considering in places like the UK, where horse riding and ownership is expensive, people, and parents in particular, are more likely to purchase riding lessons before a horse. Therefore, those people riding horses would generally have some formal training and be somewhat dedicated to horses.

About the effectiveness of helmets... I don't know. I don't really care though, it only has to save me once in my entire life to be worthwhile. I think it's already done that. It's not really a bother wearing one, you get used to it pretty quickly. If it only has a 1% chance of saving me... I'd take that.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

When I see topics like this discussed, I think of Darwin ...


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## kiltsrhott (Mar 11, 2012)

I'm just going to be another voice to agree with all those who think helmets are not at all overrated.

I have heard the argument before that people seem to think they're invincible while wearing a helmet so all of us would be safer if we ditched the helmets. I suppose some people could have this mentality, but I have never known anyone with that attitude, and I, myself, do not feel that way. I wear a helmet when I ride. I have always worn a helmet when I ride. It was required by the lesson barn when I first started taking lessons, so I got used to wearing one while riding. Even when I got my own horses and I was no longer required to wear a helmet, I continued to wear one. I feel naked if I somehow ride without one, but I still don't want to fall off. I will do everything in my power not to fall off. This includes not doing things that I know I'm not ready to attempt, and trying to regain control of a bad situation as quickly and safely as I can.

I have fallen off before, and injured myself. I am well aware that a helmet is not a magic "forcefield" that will protect you against all injury, but there is proof that helmets do absorb concussion and can greatly lessen the severity of an impact to the head. By horseback riding at all, I am accepting the possibility that I might fall off, and I like to do what I can to lessen the severity of any fall I might have. Like I said before, these preventative measures _include _not riding recklessly _and _wearing a helmet.

I am also one of those people that actually thinks you're more likely to fall off and get hurt in an unexpected situation. If I'm on a horse that I think might buck or otherwise behave badly, I will make sure to ride in an enclosed area with soft footing, few obstacles to potentially land on, and I will wear a helmet. I will ride with contact, sit deep and pay close attention to the horse's every move, from the changing tension in the muscles on their back to the turning of their ears, so if they do have a moment, I am as prepared as I can be. The helmet in no way hinders my senses, and a helmet should not shift around, fall off or feel in any way uncomfortable if it actually fits you. I have never come off a bucking, rearing, or crow hopping horse (knock on wood), though I have ridden through my share of bucks and such.

The only times I have ever fallen are times when I've been riding horses that aren't typically badly behaved, spooky, or unpredictable, but something out of the ordinary happens to take me entirely by surprise. One time, I fell when my horse tripped. The horse was not behaving badly, or trying to unseat me. She just took an unexpected misstep and we both fell on our heads. We weren't doing anything super dangerous, just cantering on the rail. The last time I fell was actually only a little over a month ago. I was riding my horse when she spooked and bolted. She took me by surprise and any attempts at saving it were unsuccessful. I was a gonner. This horse had been a bit spooky, unpredictable and prone to bolt years prior, but she hadn't done anything like that in over three years, so I was certainly not expecting that sort of behavior out of her during that particular ride. I had also not fallen off of any horse at all for over 6 years. We were only walking on the rail in the arena at the time. Each time I've fallen in a situation like that, I've been glad I'm a helmet-wearer! The unexpected does happen. This is why I wear a helmet all the time, even when I trust my horse.

This is my take on helmets. I will choose to wear a helmet, and I will require anyone who rides one of my horses to wear a helmet. If you don't want to wear a helmet, you don't ride my horse. I don't care what your opinion is, and what you do on your own horse. That's your business. If you think wearing a helmet hinders your ability to feel your horse, if you don't believe there is any benefit to wearing one, or if you don't think the risk of hitting your head is great enough to warrant wearing one, then I'm not going to try to change your mind, though I definitely disagree.

Add: I also wanted to mention that wearing a helmet is not a discipline-exclusive practice and it is not just for pansy, English riders. First of all, English riders are not pansies. Second of all, I started riding and taking lessons western. I rode primarily western pleasure and trail, with a few fun attempts at gaming, and we always wore helmets when practicing. The only time we did not wear helmets was when we wore a hat in the western pleasure classes at the appaloosa breed shows. Many western riders wear helmets religiously outside of show pen, and it's becoming a common occurrence to see helmets instead of hats in the western show arena too. Judges of any discipline are not supposed to mark you down for wearing a helmet.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

I'm just flabbergasted by a few of the excuses and reasonings for not wearing a helmet in this thread. "I can't feel the horse"? Claustrophobia? You somehow become more at risk of an injury wearing one? I "plan my falls" so I don't land on my head?

*SERIOUSLY?*

A comfortable, proper fitting helmet should become "invisible" physically within minutes of the beginning of a ride. If you wear one so seldomly that you were hyper aware of the fact that you have something on your head, then perhaps it'll take some time to get accustomed to it, but those sorts of excuses are nothing short of laughable to me. Really - I chuckled a little reading all of them. 

I wear a baseball cap all day long and completely forget that it's there most of the time. Lots of people loose their eyeglasses on their own head and search furiously for them only to find them in their own hair. A helmet can be the same - if I take the visor off of mine I can barely even physically see it when it's on my head, and it's comfortable enough that I frequently forget to take it off after a lesson because I'm hardly even aware it's there. Just last week it wasn't until it bumped into a crosstie while I was untacking that I became conscious I was still wearing it, prompting me to take it off. 

And before the individual whom I'm centering out with this response complains that it's their opinion and they're entitled to it, my response is also my opinion, and accordingly I'm entitled to it as well.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Statistically speaking I have one head, it contains the computer that keeps me running, I choose to protect that.

I had my accident while mounting, and my hat was cracked, the rest of my injuries meant I couldn't feed myself or wipe my own backside for a while. If you have ever felt that helpless as an adult, you would know why I choose, and have always chosen to wear my hat.

It isn't the thought of dieing that gets me, it's living and being a burden.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Strawberry4Me (Sep 13, 2012)

Allison Finch said:


> Private pilot, you and I do agree. Not only do I wear a helmet, I won't teach anyone who is not wearing one. I think they are, at least, a first line of defense. And not just when I am jumping.
> 
> Sadly, Courtney King showed us that even Olympic level riders can get tossed. And, dressage riders are not immune. It has taken her years to regain a fraction of what she was, and she will never ride competitively again. As a result of this, The Dressage world has new rules about wearing helmets......in competition. Sadly, many still think dressage horses can't do much harm while schooling. I like the look of a helmet with a shadbelly.
> 
> ...


Lendon Gray used to come to the stable I managed and one of the biggest things she taught was the importance of protecting your head. She was there with Courtney during her struggles, and its a very sensitive subject for Lendon. Sometimes you dont realize the importance of things until its too late. I wear a helmet even when I am not riding, but working my horse from the ground. To each their own, but my head and brain are pretty important to me. Not only do I rely on it, but my family does too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ninamebo (May 25, 2013)

^golden horse, I was about ready to post a link to your recent update/ story of accident. 

Yes, maybe the way you end up in an accident hurts a part of your body that isn't your head, and that would be no fun, but rather not need and have than not have and need. 

Oh, wth, here is the link to goldens thread anyways- off topic but I am glad that you are healing!

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-talk/why-you-dont-want-learn-hard-363410/


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

So...are all the folks praising helmets going to give up jumping?

Or should those who do not jump be allowed to tell jumpers that they are all stupid, deserving of Darwin Awards and should be ashamed of themselves for taking a chance on becoming a burden to someone?

I have no objection to helmets. Nor do I object to jumping. I do object to the smug hypocrisy of folks telling other riders they are stupid when the other riders are riding safer than they are.

Everyone who rides in an English saddle instead of an Australian one is at a greater risk of injury. The poleys on an Australian saddle can keep you on and in the game when a horse suddenly spins, or when the horse stumbles. I've finished rides with bruises on my thighs from where the poleys slammed into me. So, if we are going to be consistent, why don't we require all kids to ride Australian instead of English? 

Everyone who rides an English saddle without safety stirrups is taking an unwarranted risk. Safety stirrups cost the same and make it less likely you will be caught up. So - how many folks on this thread refuse to climb on a horse if their saddle doesn't have safety stirrups (which are available for western saddles as well)?

After all, if there is only a 1% chance that riding an Australian saddle with safety stirrups will save you, isn't it worth it? What gives ANY English rider the right to look down on the safety choices of others and call them stupid or deserving of a Darwin Award? :evil:


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## kaitlynbowles (Sep 30, 2013)

I think helmets are an awesome say eft precaution for those who want to use them, however I am one of the many who choose not to. It all boils down to personal preference and rules. 

And as for those of you who think the protecting your brain is the most important part of riding, I hope you're also advocating wearing chest protectors. While your brain controls your body, your heart provides it with oxygen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Strawberry4Me (Sep 13, 2012)

I dont think the point people are making is that if it is dangerous you shouldn't do it. But that its a good idea to take precautions. I know every time I get behind the wheel of a car that there is a chance I will get into an accident. Does it stop me? No. Do I wear my seatbelt? Every time. Is there a chance I can still get hurt with a seatbelt on? Sure is. But I am not going to say "eh, I will probably still get hurt if I get in an accident, so I won't wear a seatbelt anymore." Helmets dont necessarily save lives, but they can. And your head is better protected with it than it is without it. IMO it's a no brainer, much like wearing a seatbelt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kiltsrhott (Mar 11, 2012)

bsms said:


> So...are all the folks praising helmets going to give up jumping?
> 
> Or should those who do not jump be allowed to tell jumpers that they are all stupid, deserving of Darwin Awards and should be ashamed of themselves for taking a chance on becoming a burden to someone?
> 
> ...


Hm... I find this set of analogies a little extreme. If you're going to go the "riders take a risk riding in a less secure saddle so shouldn't all riders be required to go Aussie?" you might as well just say that horses in general are dangerous, so all people shouldn't be around horses at all. I've broken bones in horse accidents where I wasn't even riding. Horses are dangerous animals all around, and if you want to avoid all chances of injuring yourself, you would stay home, gate your stairs and bubble wrap the corners on all your furniture. Even this may not save you from the occasional stubbed toe!

The point of a helmet is not to prevent all injury. It is an easy piece of safety gear to put on and wear while riding, in any discipline. You can still reach for all your riding goals, however extreme or tame they may be. It allows you to live your life, and to enjoy a potentially dangerous sport without discomfort, but also offer a bit of protection for when something happens. People do what they can (within reason) do to the things they love as safely as they can.

I can wear a helmet no matter what I do on horseback and not feel any inconvenience. Like I said before, I came into my helmet wearing habits when I started taking western riding lessons. If I were to throw a western or australian saddle on my English horse, we would find it much more difficult to jump, or feel a good close contact for refined communication. It would affect our ability to reach our riding goals. Helmet wearing, to me, is like every other safety precaution I think all riders could easily take. Do you ride in riding boots with a small heel? It may be just as comfortable or perhaps more convenient for you to ride in sneakers, or flip flops, but most riders, of any discipline, would advise against it, because it's not hard to change your shoes before you get on, won't interrupt your riding goals, and you'll be much safer for it. I see helmets in a similar light. It's easy to put a helmet on before you mount, and studies have shown that wearing a helmet is one of the best ways to prevent serious head injury if you're going to partake in an activity that puts you at risk for one.

I really just can't see good reason _not _to wear a helmet. The only people I personally know who do not wear helmet while riding don't wear one primarily because of the looks. A coworker of mine scoffs at me for wearing a helmet because he thinks helmets make you look like a sissy. He has a bit of a macho man complex and is constantly afraid of looking weak, and that attitude carries onto things outside of helmet wearing too. I've heard people say they don't like the "mushroom head" look. Then there are the people on this thread who say it doesn't prevent all injury, so why bother, or those who seem to think wearing a hat of any kind prevents you from feeling your horse. These just sound like lame excuses to me. But like I said before, I'm not telling any person that doesn't want to wear a helmet to start wearing one. I'm just telling you why I choose differently. Honestly, I think anyone who rides a horse at all deserves a Darwin award!


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I will start my addition to the discussion by saying that I am a bit of a thrill seeker. When I was starting middle school, a student at my school passed away. I decided then that I wanted to do everything I possibly could before I died. I never wanted to look back and say 'Wow, I was boring'. 
The reason I am saying this, is that I am not afraid of anything (except sharks and spiders o.o)

Will I take the necessary precautions to be safe while I do said activities? Yes. I will wear a helmet when I ride. I will wear a vest when I jump cross country. But will I stop jumping (something that I really, really enjoy) because the statistics say it's more dangerous? Nope.


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

I just don't see why everyone wants to call those of us who choose not to wear a helmet can openly call us stupid. That's not being blunt, that's forcing your opinion on someone else along with being rude. Yet, the forum has rules against this..I'm not seeing them.

Yes, everyone has an opinion, but there is no need to specifically point things out pertaining to certain posters.

I can't see why a helmet causing claustrophobia is a bull excuse. I don't wear anything on the top of my head, nor do I put my sunglasses on my head. I get claustrophobic with a helmet on, and unless someone were to live like me for a day, not one of you would understand. To say that it's ridiculous for a helmet to make me claustrophobic is ridiculous is, in itself, ridiculous. You don't know how I feel, so don't act like you do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## madyasmkey (Jan 26, 2014)

Tbh, if I was allowed to ride without a helmet, I probably wouldn't. Only because knowing my luck the one time I ride without a helmet knowingly I'm going to get hurt, mainly because I'd probably be over cautious and tense so evening would be out to get m my horse in her eyes. It's the same the other way around. If it's not something you wear regularly it can make you be over cautious h and probably notice things about your riding you hadn't before, like being out of balance and because you notice it it gets exaggerated. The hat itself doesn't cause those problems but is probably exaggerated either in the mind of the rider or they physically exaggerate it, thinking more about the hat causing problems that is not.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"_But will I stop jumping (something that I really, really enjoy) because the statistics say it's more dangerous? Nope._"

Good for you! Life would be pretty boring if we never took any chances. I spent much of my life strapping into an ejection seat - no, not Mia, but an F-4, F-111 or Navy EA-6B. At 55, I'm once again jogging in the desert. If I have a stroke, heart attack or break a leg, it will not be pretty. I don't carry a cell phone. I would be safer jogging in a neighborhood where someone might spot me...but jogging thru the Sonoran desert is one of the joys of my life.

I would like to learn jumping. The statistics tell me it isn't prudent for me to try to teach myself on a horse who doesn't know how, and lessons aren't in my budget right now. Maybe I can convince my wife that 6 months of lessons would be a good Christmas present. If so, watch for the posts next spring!

My former room-mate from college has lived his life riding horses on a ranch. So have his wife, 4 kids, parents, grandparents and several brother-in-laws. None have ever worn a helmet, and none have ever had a significant head injury. He is not a stupid man. He would have literally 'lost the ranch' a few times if he wasn't smart. He adores his kids, all of whom are now in their 20s. But if you and most of your family has spent a lifetime working sheep and cattle using horses, often riding 20+ miles a day (and sometimes over 50), and there has never been a head injury to any of them...selling him a helmet is going to be tough. Not because he is stupid, and not because he thinks he is invincible, but because he rates the odds of needing a helmet low. In the Utah desert, a cowboy hat is close to a necessity. He and his family have chosen a cowboy hat over a helmet. I suspect a lot of other desert rats who spend long hours in the sun might agree. (I use a boonie cap when jogging).

I reject the idea that ranchers are stupid, or deserve a Darwin Award, or are just worried about their self-image, and therefor do not use helmets. And FWIW, he sees nothing wrong with me using a helmet. He also says there is nothing wrong with Mia that a few 50 mile days wouldn't cure. I'm sure he is right, but...:?


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

To those that object to helmets purely for the comfort factor....have you tried a few different types? Personally, I thought my IRH was a decent little helmet for the price, a bit uncomfortable, my view a bit limited, and bulky. I bought a skull cap last year that I adore. I forget I'm wearing it--lightweight, breathable, and the brimless design of skull caps means your vision isn't restricted.

Just putting it out there. If I grew up riding with nothing but the bulky, hot helmets offered at lesson barns, I would probably have an aversion to them, as well! Go to a tack shop and try a few different brands and styles on. Charles Owens fit different head shapes than GPAs, IRHs, Samshields and Troxels.

I've never tried Tipperarys, but many here rave about them.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Iseul said:


> I don't think I'm the best rider out there by any means, and I know I could still use some work..But I feel perfectly safe without a helmet..no need to fix something that isn't broke.
> 
> On top of that..I wore a helmet once and ended up hanging off the side of the horse because he turned (and I even asked him to) and not only was my balance affected, the helmet made me claustrophobic. I wasn't paying any attention to the horse and it's movements, only the helmet.
> 
> ...


It is your right whether to wear a helmet or not *however,* I have never read such rubbish as above. To say that *because* you were wearing a helmet you were not concentrating. If the powers of your concentration are so limited then if I was your parent I would be exceedingly worried. 

The fact that you have not fallen often says that you have been lucky.

Luck has a habit of running out.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

bsms--That's fantastic! I really think that life should be about doing and enjoying the things you love. Sometimes that doesn't mean easy, and sometimes it doesn't mean the simplest option. If jogging through the desert (which sounds super hard and awesome, by the way) is what you love, then the fear that you could hurt yourself doing it shouldn't be enough to stop you! I know lots of people like that, who let "what ifs" rule their life, and that just seems silly to me.

Jumping is a lot of fun. With my next horse, I may try to buy something a little more fancy, or maybe change disciplines altogether. I want to get a little taste of everything~


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

Foxhunter said:


> It is your right whether to wear a helmet or not *however,* I have never read such rubbish as above. To say that *because* you were wearing a helmet you were not concentrating. If the powers of your concentration are so limited then if I was your parent I would be exceedingly worried.
> 
> The fact that you have not fallen often says that you have been lucky.
> 
> Luck has a habit of running out.


Yet again, this is not blunt, this is rude. You'd be worried if you were my parent? Please. When a phobia is involved, you cannot (atleast I can't, luckily I don't have any aside from claustrophobia) concentrate on more than that. If there isn't a phobia, I can concentrate on plenty of things at once.
Like said, because you took a statement out of context (or you're just a jerk), you decided to use it to belittle me. That's wrong. But apparently so is choosing to not wear a helmet because I don't feel the need to.

In all honesty, if everything to do with horses is sooo risky to you guys, why don't we all wear helmets, vests, hand wraps, NEVER ride bareback (preferably in either an aussie or western saddle, since english saddles aren't all that secure), shin guards, and knee pads (in case you bump the rail)? Because everyone weighs their inherent risk differently.

Me choosing to not wear a helmet for any reason (even just choosing to say they mess up my hair), does not mean I'm stupid. I have weighed the risks out and personally feel safer without a helmet. Big deal, who gives a rat's butt about WHY I choose not to? I don't wear a helmet, period the end. I don't have anything against them for others, nor do I discourage others from wearing one..I just don't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

PrivatePilot said:


> I rank that in the same category as US states without motorcycle helmet laws. You can still wear a helmet in them, but social pressures and a desire to "fit in with the crowd" frequently discourages such.
> 
> I've traveled the US extensively as part of my job. I've seen first hand a big burly Harley rider poke fun at a sportbike rider who was wearing a helmet in a state where it was optional. The sportbike guy still put it back on and rode off, much to his credit, but "peer pressure" was sure evident.
> 
> Could ranch hands wear helmets? Absolutely - I don't see anything logistically or practically that would prevent it, unless there's something glaring that I'm missing about the profession. BUT...image, and likely the risk of being "razzed" about it by fellow ranch hands often (likely?) discourages it. Heck, they make helmets that look like western cowboy hats now for those who still put their image above the potential for increased safety, but how many of those have you ever seen out there? Not many from my observations.


As the owner of a farm with 5 ranch hands and that works cattle by horseback allow me to clearly state that a cowboy hat is much more practical than a helmet.
As bsms posted I have never seen a hand wear a helmet and its is not because of peer pressure.
The risk of injury to ones head is slight and a cowboy hat protects from exposure to the sun. A more serious and common threat to those working outside is skin cancer not a head injury.
I dont own a helmet and will not wear one. Thats my choice and as a mental health professional I am well aware what can result from brain truama.
Those helmets that look like western hats are uncomfortable and do not provide the protection from the sun a regular hat does. They are also not lightweight and when working cattle in 90-100+ degrees comfort is important. Shalom


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## EquineObsessed (May 24, 2013)

There is no question in my mind that wearing a helmet is a good idea. I don't think anyone could argue that they are overrated, or bad. However, it is a matter of preference. I don't wear one very often, but will always comply if someone asks me to on their property. I also live in a state that doesn't require you to wear a seatbelt, and I rarely use one. I don't care if someone else doesn't wear one. Unless they are riding your horse or it is on your property, it is nobody's business. The whole helmet argument is silly; everyone knows that helmets are a good idea. It is still a choice, and there is no reason get up in a tizzy about someone's personal choice unless it is directly affecting your own safety, legal or otherwise.


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## madyasmkey (Jan 26, 2014)

Iseul said:


> Yet again, this is not blunt, this is rude. You'd be worried if you were my parent? Please. When a phobia is involved, you cannot (atleast I can't, luckily I don't have any aside from claustrophobia) concentrate on more than that. If there isn't a phobia, I can concentrate on plenty of things at once.
> Like said, because you took a statement out of context (or you're just a jerk), you decided to use it to belittle me. That's wrong. But apparently so is choosing to not wear a helmet because I don't feel the need to.
> 
> In all honesty, if everything to do with horses is sooo risky to you guys, why don't we all wear helmets, vests, hand wraps, NEVER ride bareback (preferably in either an aussie or western saddle, since english saddles aren't all that secure), shin guards, and knee pads (in case you bump the rail)? Because everyone weighs their inherent risk differently.
> ...


Foxhunter didn't say is wrong not to wear a hat, she said that is your choice to do so or. Your reasoning for not wearing one is though. I have claustrophobia and my hat does not terrier it and never had been. No-One has a problem with you not wearing one, but a helmet does not put you off balance or helmets would probably be banned from horse riding. The helmet itself did not put you off balance, you did. And if something so minor could put someone off balance they must already be way off balance and the hat just tips the extra little bit enough to make you feel uncomfortable.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

*isuel* so, you never wear a hat at all? No baseball cap or western hat? 

If this is so the I _might_ believe you have a phobia, if not it is because you choose not to wear a helmet, which, as I said originally, is your choice.

At no point did I say that you were stupid, it is a word I hate so very rarely ever use it. I you came to that conclusion ......................!!!


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

I do not wear a baseball cap or a western hat. I hate having anything on my head and my sunglasses go on the dash if I take them off as well.
Though, for my living I do traffic control and am required to wear a hard hat. I have it just barely sat on my head and if I move the wrong way (in which I do lose my balance with it quite a bit and have gone without it a few times) it will fall. Though, now I've managed to get past the hard hat, doing that with a helmet for riding is not plausible. A helmet set like such on my head isn't going to do anything. I also very rarely put the hood of a jacket up as well unless the freezing of my ears/neck overrides the fact that I can see something out of the corner of my eye and get paranoid.

The stupid comment was a more overall comment, not directed towards you, FoxHunter. I didn't mean it to sound as such if it did.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

bsms said:


> From the viewpoint of SAFETY, there are two ways of looking at it.
> 
> 1 - An accident can happen to anyone at any time, so all safety gear is appropriate at all times. From this perspective, we should all wear body protectors at all times, because falls from a horse could break your back at any time. We all ought to wear helmets. And since multiple studies have indicated a person is more likely to have a head injury while working on the ground around horses, we all ought to wear a helmets all the time we are around horses, and not just when riding. Frankly, we ought to look like dirt bike riders every time we are near a horse.
> 
> ...


BSMS, My eyes glazed over and I was unable to read this looooong post. Suffice it to say, you will wear what you will. Or NOT!

Have I said lately that Darwin is a close personal friend and he has always served me well. His annual list of awards has been great entertainment over the years......:twisted:


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

EquineObsessed said:


> everyone knows that helmets are a good idea.


This thread makes me question that. Apparently not.



kaitlynbowles said:


> And as for those of you who think the protecting your brain is the most important part of riding, I hope you're also advocating wearing chest protectors. While your brain controls your body, your heart provides it with oxygen.


Google search results for "Horse head injury" yield countless thousands of stories of riders who have fallen and suffered anything from a minor (concusssion) head injury, to a massive (yes, even life ending) head injury.

Heart injury? Never heard of one, although I suppose anything is possible in a freak accident. Broken bones are much more likely..but the statistics are clear that lower extremity accidents are the most common, but you can heal broken bones - healing a broken brain is much harder, or impossible.

Yes, it's impossible to protect every part of your body, but it's important to protect the most important, most easily damaged, and hardest to heal part - the brain.



Iseul said:


> I do not wear a baseball cap or a western hat. I hate having anything on my head and my sunglasses go on the dash if I take them off as well.


Ok, so giving validity to your issue with claustrophobia by wearing something on your head, the rest of your arguments still ring hollow. "Higher risk of injury wearing a helmet?" "Can't feel my horse"? I don't see how either of those are related to the potentially valid (I'll give you that) claustrophobia issue, honestly, and the "I plan my falls" being amongst one of the biggest stretches I've ever heard. *The greater majority of falls are over before the rider even realizes they were about to occur.* Even cats fall less than graciously (Search YouTube) more often than one might believe, and we all know how they normally fall much more gracefully than any human on the face of the planet. So, sorry, you're not going to tell me that you fall better than a cat.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

bsms - please use newer data than the 1990s from the USCTA. You complained in the past that you couldn't find anything newer. Here is a link to it. 


Risk Management | FEI

If that link does not open, try this one below and take out the spaces.

http:// fei.org/ fei/disc/ eventing/ risk-management


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

Higher risk of injury due to higher chance of falling off in the first place. Same as not being able to feel my horse as well. I'm not paying attention to the horse at all (including my body moving with the horse and me paying attention to what the horse is doing subtly) if I have a helmet on. All I think about is the thing on my head, not the horse. Thus, wearing one ups the risk I take because without one, I focus on all those little things and how I move with the horse.

It's not so much that * I * plan my falls, but my body knows what to do. With the training, it's second nature to my body to move a certain way as soon as my brain realizes I'm falling (body realizes before your actual conscious does). My fault on not wording it better the first time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

bsms said:


> So...are all the folks praising helmets going to give up jumping?


Why would we?



> Or should those who do not jump be allowed to tell jumpers that they are all stupid, deserving of Darwin Awards and should be ashamed of themselves for taking a chance on becoming a burden to someone?


 Anyone can have the opinion that wearing them, or not wearing them is appropriate. It is strictly a personal choice, that's all. But, when people say that they are too good a rider to find a helmet good protection, they might need a reality check. As I have said, it only takes a nanosecond for things to go horribly wrong. There are plenty of decent riders who are a burden to someone because of a bad fall. And these are not all English jumping riders. That is reality. If a helmet can lower those numbers, it is my choice to accept that advantage. Anyone else's choice not to.



> I have no objection to helmets. *Nor do I object to jumping*. I do object to the smug hypocrisy of folks telling other riders they are stupid when the other riders are riding safer than they are.


 Why would you think that not jumping is even an issue? You don't have to be jumping to get hurt. And, if you ever do any rough country trail riding, you will probably have to jump something, either log, stream.....

Saying that we are being smug hypocrites is a bit smuggishly hypocritical. How are "they" riding safer than those dastardly jumpers? Some of the worst accidents I have seen were in a ring doing flat work.



> Everyone who rides in an English saddle instead of an Australian one is at a greater risk of injury. The poleys on an Australian saddle can keep you on and in the game when a horse suddenly spins, or when the horse stumbles. I've finished rides with bruises on my thighs from where the poleys slammed into me. So, if we are going to be consistent, why don't we require all kids to ride Australian instead of English?


 See, this plays into the myth that English saddles are inherently more dangerous. I have much greater feel and balance in an English saddle and prefer it when breaking green horses. I much prefer them over a western saddle, personally. I find it pretty hard to get tossed off on them as they are built to have a rider in a secure position when the horse is doing anything other than standing. Imagine jumping in a western or, even, a Aussie saddle which keeps your leg from going forward to counterbalance the upper body?



> *Everyone who rides an English saddle without safety stirrups is taking an unwarranted risk*. Safety stirrups cost the same and make it less likely you will be caught up. So - how many folks on this thread refuse to climb on a horse if their saddle doesn't have safety stirrups (which are available for western saddles as well)?


 This shows you lack of knowledge about how English saddles are designed. The stirrup leather are attached to the saddle with safety bars. They can be flipped up to keep the leathers from sliding out if hung in the stirrups or flipped down to allow the whole leather, stirrup and all to slide out.

Up, not a good idea, IMO. They will keep the leather in when a person is hung up











Down. ALL of my saddles and my student's saddles are required to have them this way. AND, they move the leathers in and out regularly to keep them supple












The problem with some safety stirrups is that they are weaker than standard stirrups and prone to breaking.




> After all, if there is only a 1% chance that riding an Australian saddle with safety stirrups will save you, isn't it worth it? What gives ANY English rider the right to look down on the safety choices of others and call them stupid or deserving of a Darwin Award? :evil:


 I saw no one calling you stupid. And I don't believe that Aussie saddles are superior safety wise, either. The poleys do help, no argument. BUT, the saddle puts your leg in a straighter position and does not help bring your knee forward to help counter balance the upper body when it gets thrown forward. Same with a western saddle. 

All saddles have their advantages and disadvantages...period. 

No one came here to slam you. You make your decisions on your safety, as do all adults here. This is simply a discussion on whether the use of a helmet encourages unwise behavior. That was the OP's question.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

BTW, I will now "come clean"

Have I ridden without a helmet? Of course I have. As DB and BSMS and Privatepilot have said, western hats are more than decoration. They keep the elements at bay. 

I spent many years riding the backcountry in Colorado, guiding pack trips. I will say that I never rode in a helmet doing that. The western hat was what I needed when the weather suddenly went bad or if the sun was beating down on me. It was a decision made as to what problem was the most probable....falling or dealing with the elements. The elements won.

Did I know I was taking a risk? Absolutely!! Some of the country I rode was downright terrorizing....


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

updownrider said:


> bsms - please use newer data than the 1990s from the USCTA. You complained in the past that you couldn't find anything newer....


Thank you for the update. Notice the results:










Notice they break it out as falls at the fences and on the flat instead of jumping and dressage. So we now have no way of knowing the STYLE of riding used, the saddle, or just where the 'flat' fall occurred. But still, the annual average is for 95% of the falls to be at the fence, with no way of knowing if the 5% figure for flats refers to dressage competitions or in between fences...but the ratio is 19:1. 

If a helmet is reduces injury in a fall by fourfold, then someone wearing a helmet and jumping is in at least 5 times as much danger as someone riding the flats without a helmet. And if they are riding western, or dressage? We don't know because these statistics do not include western riding. But I think the point is made: jumpers are exposed to greater risk riding with a helmet than non-jumpers are without.

And that is fine - but it makes it hypocritical for jumpers to mock western riders as candidates for a Darwin Award. Who is the one taking excessive risk for fun? And yes, I would like to take jumping lessons someday, for the fun of it. "I_t makes me happy_" can be an acceptable reason for assuming some risks.

"_See, this plays into the myth that English saddles are inherently more dangerous._"

Myth? YOU may be more secure in an English saddle, Allison, after years of riding and instruction, but a beginner? Give me a break! When a horse stumbles or tries to spin & bolt, the poleys of an Australian saddle are awesome - particularly for those of us who have not been riding since Darwin's day!

"_This shows you lack of knowledge about how English saddles are designed._"

Nope. Although I'm surprised at yours. Both of the Bates Caprillis I own have stirrup bars attached in such a way that I would never trust the stirrup leather to slide off under pressure. No latches, just tight. And a safety stirrup would allow the foot to roll out.

"_The problem with some safety stirrups is that they are weaker than standard stirrups and prone to breaking._"

Since statistics numb your mind, take a look at the picture I posted. Those safety stirrups will NOT break!

"_I saw no one calling you stupid. And I don't believe that Aussie saddles are superior safety wise, either. The poleys do help, no argument. BUT, the saddle puts your leg in a straighter position and does not help bring your knee forward to help counter balance the upper body when it gets thrown forward._"

Darwin Awards are not given for intelligence, are they? And while I use a helmet, my point remains - some styles of riding and tack are safer than others. But I also have 2 Aussie saddles, and they do not prevent you from riding with a more forward knee. I do ride with a straighter leg, but my feet are then forward and it does provide an excellent brake during stumble or unplanned stop - which my mare has specialized in for too long, although she is getting better.

This is a discussion on the effectiveness of helmets. That, in return, depends on how likely you are to fall. Given the ranching family I know that hasn't had any head injuries in 3 generations, I'd say their risk of falling and hitting their noggins is already sufficiently low - and much lower than a jumper. 

As dbarabians agrees, in some environments SHADE for the face & neck is pretty critical. There is a reason why a lot of ranchers in Texas, Oklahoma, Utah and Arizona do not wear helmets, and it is not stupidity. While I am a fan of wearing helmets, particularly for those of us recreational riders who ride a few hours a week, I see no reason to believe the average western rancher is either fashion conscious or stupid.

I also think the horse world does a disservice to all new riders by not admitting how dangerous jumping is compared to not jumping. If it is indeed at least 19 times more dangerous than riding the flats, shouldn't that point be made before a parent gives 'informed consent'? And shouldn't folks admit that some equine sports need to accept a lot more risk than others?


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

bsms said:


> Notice they break it out as falls at the fences and on the flat instead of jumping and dressage. So we now have no way of knowing the STYLE of riding used, the saddle, or just where the 'flat' fall occurred.


bsms - The link I provided brought you to a EVENTING page on the FEI website. That data was compiled by the FEI for EVENTING only. EVENTING is ENGLISH riding only. There were no Western saddles used or saddles with horns. You should be familiar with Eventing data since have used the USCTA data over and over to prove your point. The FEI data is the same, except it is current and International numbers. Since you have been perfectly comfortable using USCTA numbers, don't play naïve and pretend to not know what style and type of saddle these new numbers reflect.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Going forward with the dangers of falling off. I have had more falls than most, mainly as a child because I would rode all the lunatics and, because I also rode by balance alone! I also odd all sorts of mad things just because I had seen them in a film or a circus.
There are more risks if you are going to jump. The fatalities that came in quick succession in the UK with eventers, proves that. All were rotational falls and rider errors. Another fact was that because saddles have changed in design and have deeper knee and thigh rolls and saddles are deeper in the seat, riders were held there whereas in a flatter saddle, which most riders have gone back to using allow them to fall clear.

There is a big difference between riding on the flat to jumping. Spending all day in the saddle is hard so saddles, western and Australian were designed to make it more comfortable for the rider working stock for hours each day. 

No matter what course is taken to stop injuries, they are going to happen, not just jumping but also on the flat. It os a risk sport.


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## Zeke (Jun 27, 2010)

bsms said:


> This is a discussion on the effectiveness of helmets. That, in return, depends on how likely you are to fall.


I generally agree with what you've had to say in this thread but this point throws me. 

To me, and the dictionary, effectiveness means 'the degree to which something is successful in producing a desired result". Are you trying to say that if a person doesn't fall while wearing a helmet that the helmet is no longer effective? That's not why those who choose to wear helmets do so. Typically no one wants to have to produce the desired result of a helmet hitting the ground, which would be a rider who has not suffered a cracked skill even at the expense of a cracked helmet. Just because the helmet on a rider's head hasn't experienced a fall doesn't mean it wouldn't protect a riders skull if it was to come in contact with the ground thus still proving the helmet effective. 

My skim skills are probably lacking, but I don't think anyone here disagrees with you that falls are more likely over fences or rough terrain. However, just because a person riding isn't likely to fall doesn't make their helmet any less successful at it's job of only performing in the event a head hits the ground. If a rider and their peers never come off their horse, thus never getting their head close enough to the ground to make them want to wear a helmet, that's fine by me. Doesn't mean helmets do not do their job for others. 


Other then that point I generally agree with you. No one should judge or badger others for their actions if those actions are causing no harm to anyone. It does not injure anyone, but maybe my loved ones emotions, if I fall while jumping therefore you're right, no one should be allowed to call me names for deciding to do it. It does not injure anyone when a rider chooses not to wear a helmet and I've never understood the crazy bashing of people who do not wish to wear one.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

I'm pro-helmet, but I do have to say that lately I've been riding without one. Why, you ask? I find that, oddly enough, wearing a helmet makes me overly cautious. I honestly don't know why. 

Do I think they're over-rated? Not in the slightest. I've seen injuries without helmets and they suck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## madyasmkey (Jan 26, 2014)

As goes for safer tack, I'd say neither Western, Australian or English are the safest or least safe. I'd say that the Roman saddle is the safest and the racing saddle is the least safe.

Back to hats, there are some hats which can cause more danger. Hats with peaks on are known to break noses because of people hitting their heads over a fence and it snaps straight on their faces. Not great. Skull caps are great though, very comfy bit very expensive sometimes.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Tack safety, depends on the rider and what they are doing.




> Back to hats, there are some hats which can cause more danger. Hats with peaks on are known to break noses because of people hitting their heads over a fence and it snaps straight on their faces. Not great. Skull caps are great though, very comfy bit very expensive sometimes.


That's why they have breakaway peaks now.

Look who cares, wear a helmet, don't wear a helmet, it's up to you, a helmet has never made me more or less reckless. As I say, it is the person who has to care for you because you end up a vegetable in a fall, and you didn't take just a small precaution to prevent that damage, that gets my sympathy.


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

.

Top reasons for not wearing a Helmet :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


Helmets are for wimps

I am willing to take the risk

I cannot wear a helmet in the show ring

I know how to do an emergency stop

Helmets give me headaches

Helmets mess up my hair

I am an experience rider

Helmets are hot

Helmets are not traditional in western riding

Helmets are ugly

Helmets are expensive

I wear a bike helmet they are nicer looking


.
.
.
.
.
.
.


And the top answer is…… I have nothing inside my skull worth protecting


.


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## madyasmkey (Jan 26, 2014)

Oh, I wear hats, it was just a moan about someone who said they were completely safe doing something I wouldn't even try with my horse. But they were safe because they had a hat on. I can't even remember what it was they wanted to do, but it was stupid.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

updownrider said:


> bsms - The link I provided brought you to a EVENTING page on the FEI website. That data was compiled by the FEI for EVENTING only. EVENTING is ENGLISH riding only. There were no Western saddles used or saddles with horns. You should be familiar with Eventing data since have used the USCTA data over and over to prove your point. The FEI data is the same, except it is current and International numbers. Since you have been perfectly comfortable using USCTA numbers, don't play naïve and pretend to not know what style and type of saddle these new numbers reflect.


Yes, I know what eventing is. As I pointed out: "_We don't know because these statistics do not include western riding._"So we have no way of comparing this data directly to western riding, although it is likely western riding with long legs in a western saddle creates a more secure riding position than riding in an English jump saddle between jumps.

The new numbers are horrible for your argument. Those numbers show a 19:1 ratio of jumping to flats, while allowing the 'flat' work to be something other than dressage. It also doesn't show ANY ground accident results, so we cannot know how that compares to their original numbers in 1990 - where ground accidents resulted in more injuries than dressage.

Since dressage is one of the three events in eventing, it would be interesting to know how many falls there were during the dressage competition. Any?

What is the percentage of time that a rider is 'at a fence' during an eventing competition, vs in between fences? If the time is not equal, then it probably means that as a function of time, jumping is even more dangerous than the 19:1 ratio suggests.

I've offered my statistics and studies, and reviewed the ones you have offered. Using your data alone, I am right - jumping dramatically increases the risk of falling. Non-jumpers are safer, even without helmets.

That doesn't make eventing wrong, or jumping wrong. If jumping puts a smile on your face, and you are willing to accept the risk, that is all I need to know to be happy for you. But if someone enjoys riding flats without a helmet, and it puts a smile of THEIR face...then why can't you be happy for them? If Iseul is safer with her choices than a helmet wearing jumper, why tell her she should not ride that way? If she knows the risks - and she probably does, if only because we've covered them in detail on this thread - then why can't she do what makes her happy in riding? Is being happy justification only for jumpers?

"_Are you trying to say that if a person doesn't fall while wearing a helmet that the helmet is no longer effective?_" - Zeke

Helmets are worn to protect the head. If the person never falls, the head never needs protection and thus the helmet does nothing helpful. Helmets help someone who falls. As I've pointed out, there is data indicating a fourfold reduction in deaths when riders fall with helmets on instead of without them.

But the OVERALL safety improvement requires us to look at how often a person falls on their head during a given style of riding. In the case of the ranch family I pointed out, three generations of helmetless heads are still intact. They have never lost a sheepherder, although the sheepherders they hire often have not ridden before coming to work here. They are under a desert sun, usually for long hours. So why is it incomprehensible to some that they wear cowboy hats instead of a helmet?

I ride with a helmet because I have more confidence. More confidence in me equals a calmer horse. That alone is good justification for me. If my horse falls on the pavement, a helmet can save my brain. I normally ride an hour or so. For an hour, long sleeves and a collar turned up, combined with sunscreen is enough protection from the sun for me. But if I needed to ride for 8-12 hours, I'd reach for a cowboy hat. Not because I'm macho, but because sun stroke could kill me as dead as a fall.


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

..............


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

SouthernTrails said:


> ..............


??
Not quite sure what the point is in that?Explain please?

Btw..we should definitely be able to like posts on mobile.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## madyasmkey (Jan 26, 2014)

There's a funny picture under it. The "......................" was because you have to have a certain number of characters.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I'm a pretty firm believer that people should be able to do what they want, so long as it doesn't effect the safety of those around you.

So, if someone doesn't want to wear a helmet, then that shouldn't be too big of a deal unless you're that person's parent xD


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

Iseul said:


> ??
> Not quite sure what the point is in that?Explain please?
> 
> Btw..we should definitely be able to like posts on mobile.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Attachments may not show up on mobiles... not sure

Will re-post pic










.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

SouthernTrails said:


> .
> 
> Top reasons for not wearing a Helmet :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
> 
> ...


 


:clap::clap::clap:


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

bsms said:


> The new numbers are horrible for your argument.


bsms - Now you are just making stuff up. I have no argument on this helmet thread. I haven't posted on this thread except to say to use current data. I have an opinion but I haven't even expressed that.


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

I saw the pic, though the attachment didn't show up on the quote. I was wondering what the reasoning behind it was, being a funny or meaning something more.

Personally, I take offense to Southern's last "answer"..As I'm sure others that don't wear a helmet would as well. I guess I don't have a brain in my skull since I don't wear one? THIS is exactly where the "stupid" comments I make come from. It's offensive, but those who do wear helmets seem to think it's absolutely hilarious.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

Zexious said:


> I'm a pretty firm believer that people should be able to do what they want, so long as it doesn't effect the safety of those around you.
> 
> So, if someone doesn't want to wear a helmet, then that shouldn't be too big of a deal unless you're that person's parent xD


Or you're a barn owner in charge of reducing liability :wink: There are some barns that require helmets whenever mounted- my last barn was this way. 

Since everyone needs to have an opinion on this, I'll throw mine out there too : I almost always wear mine. Exceptions include if I'm getting my horse out of the pasture and decide to ride him back. Yeah, I'm probably more likely to fall off since I'm riding bareback in a halter through a field. I accept that risk from time to time. Otherwise the only time I ever don't wear it is when I forgot to put it on. I can name two times that it's happened, and on both of these occasions I got off my horse, tied him up, saw my helmet sitting there, touched my head and was confused as to why it was sitting on the ground and not up there! I think that most excuses that people use for not wearing helmets are just that- excuses. Helmets may not be as widely accepted in the western world, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't use them. I live in south Louisiana, and I can stand wearing it in the hot sun at high noon. A $50 helmet is a small price to pay for a little extra safety. Yeah, it may be very distracting at first. If you give yourself time to get used to it and have a WELL FITTING helmet, then it'll start to feel more normal soon enough.

That said, I respect peoples' decisions to not wear them. If you want to put your skull at a greater risk, then that's your business and I'm not going to force it on you! 

Personally, I think that the "wearing a helmet makes you do dumb things" argument is a bit silly. Head injuries can still occur with a helmet on- why do something dumb to tempt fate? I don't see why it should make a difference at all, but that's just my common sense kicking in.

And, just for fun, a couple of the mildly amusing helmet-related things I've heard over the years:

Going on a ride with two of my friends in the hot summer sun. We're about to head out to the back and one of the friends asks "Are we doing helmets today?" I just respond with "well, yeah, why wouldn't we today?" She ends up going without one for whatever reason. Sure enough, the horses spook when a neighbor revs up some power tool. No one fell off, but ironic nonetheless

Same friend, when another friend was talking about replacing her helmet after a fall. "Oh, don't bother replacing it! I'm still using the same helmet that I was wearing when I got my concussion!" :shock:

From a young girl at my barn when an adult complained about the fact that she wasn't wearing a helmet: "I was wearing my helmet when I broke my arm! I still got hurt!"
(well, yeah, dear. Helmets are not equivalent to full body armor!)

Two friends are going for a ride. Both on their non spooky horses, decide not to wear helmets. Non spooky horse spooks at some birds that fly up and friend falls off. No one was hurt, but that was probably the only time that she didn't wear a helmet that year, and probably the only time she fell off that year :wink:


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

Iseul said:


> I saw the pic, though the attachment didn't show up on the quote. I was wondering what the reasoning behind it was, being a funny or meaning something more.
> 
> Personally, I take offense to Southern's last "answer"..As I'm sure others that don't wear a helmet would as well. I guess I don't have a brain in my skull since I don't wear one? THIS is exactly where the "stupid" comments I make come from. It's offensive, but those who do wear helmets seem to think it's absolutely hilarious.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


To tell you the truth, I have never worn a helmet while riding in over 50 years.... but that is another story, just because I never have does not mean I should not wear a helmet :wink: My grankids are not allowed on a Horse without a helmet!

In fact when I 1st started riding Horses I do not think they even made helmets back then :shock: Cars did not have seat belts either........

So, I guess the joke was really on me :lol::lol:

.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

I'm a firm believer in live and let live.

For most of my life I didn't wear a helmet. I just never really thought about it.

Then I some how became middle aged. How the devil did that happen?

So in my middle aged mind set I started pondering what would happen if I was in a riding accident which resulted in me spending the rest of my life in a wheelchair, in a bed, or mentally disabled.

If in a wheelchair, I would need to refit my house to handle a wheelchair. Doorways would need widening, bathrooms made accessible, kitchen counters/cabinets lowered so I could take care of myself. I don't have the cash for that. My house is over 130 years old; bathrooms small. It would be a major undertaking financially to redesign them. So who would help me do this?

If I was confined to a bed for then rest of my life who would get saddled taking care of me? My poor kids who are just stepping out into the world developing their lives? Do I go to a nursing home at the cost of 4k a month? Do I have that kind of money? No, I don't. 

And a brain injury that made would make me incapable of taking care of myself? Who takes care of me? 

Middle age made me think of what would happen to the lives of my kids if I could no longer be independent. Hence, I wear a helmet.

I realize a helmet is not the end all, but it is a start.

Oh hell, maybe I'm over thinking the whole thing.


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## Marcie (Jul 25, 2013)

I recently was on a horse that spooked at a random loud noise and threw me. I did hit my head and I WAS wearing a helmet. I'm only 29 and because of my injuries had to endure some pretty awful pain, broken bones ect. And now my back makes feel like an old woman sometimes! 6 months ago I was just a normal, average person riding. I never, ever, Ever thought I would feel like this at not even 30 years old! Now I have difficulty even doing the dishes.  It stinks. I know a lot of younger people feel like they are invincible but it's just not true. Accidents are so random. They come out of nowhere. I'm grateful I was wearing my helmet and would never ride without one.

If someone out there doesn't want to wear one, you can't force them too. But I would definitely not want to be that person If they fell and hit their head. :/ I obviously feel very strongly that they can save your life or at least save you a lot of pain due to my personal experience..


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

updownrider said:


> bsms - Now you are just making stuff up. I have no argument on this helmet thread. I haven't posted on this thread except to say to use current data. I have an opinion but I haven't even expressed that.


Fine. Then thank you for providing updated information that supports my point. And in fact, nothing in the updated information contradicts anything I've ever written on the subject. The old data showed an 86:1 ratio between the jumping phases and the dressage phase, with 12% of accidents coming during ground work. The new data only differentiates between at the fence, and not at the fence (flat). Since dressage is not broken out as a separate category and since ground handling is not covered at all (that I saw), we now have no way to know if ANY accidents caused injuries during the dressage or ground handling phases.

This doesn't mean not jumping = safe on a horse. Western riders do die from head injuries at times, and most of those who die without a helmet on would have survived if they had worn a helmet. Helmets are well designed and effective at protecting the head in a fall. Everyone needs to assess what makes them happy in riding, and what safety measures are needed to reduce the risk to an acceptable level. That choice needs to include what activities they do, as well as tack, training, horse, environment, etc. Helmet vs no helmet is too simplistic.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

Where does the safety equipment argument end? Does everyone also need to ride in one of the self inflating vests as well? What about knee and elbow pads? Steel toed boots? All of these reduce the odds of an injury...

Life has risks. Personally, I don't want to live in a bubble.

Now, if I were to enter a steeple chase, then I'd want all the equipment I could get.....but I don't.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

I understand and accept the risk of handling livestock. There is an inherent danger when a 1000+ pound animal with a brain of its own is in close proximity to you.
I do not fear livestock . I respect them and the danger of being harmed is constant and real.
There is no such thing as a "safe" horse. 
They all bite, they all buck, they all kick. They just need the right reason .
If I was worried about injury every time I saddled my horse I would not ride.

One of the hands here Miquel was recently tossed around like a rag doll by one of our bulls. A helicopter was dispatched to take him to the hospital where he spent 3 weeks and is now in physical therapy.
We are fully aware of the risk and we accept them.
Miquel's injuries are not going to compel me to don a suit of armour when around those 2,000 pound bulls.
I choose not to wear a helmet. That is my choice and the risk of injury I will accept. After riding for over 45 years I dont fear what might happen. Shalom


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I agree with gunslinger.

Duck--You have a point there. I rode at a barn where it was a requirement to wear a helmet at all times. 
That said, I don't ever plan to be an owner of any riding establishment, so it really isn't my business what people do and do not choose to protect.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

bsms said:


> Fine. Then thank you for providing updated information that supports my point. And in fact, nothing in the updated information contradicts anything I've ever written on the subject. The old data showed an 86:1 ratio between the jumping phases and the dressage phase, with 12% of accidents coming during ground work. The new data only differentiates between at the fence, and not at the fence (flat). Since dressage is not broken out as a separate category and since ground handling is not covered at all (that I saw), we now have no way to know if ANY accidents caused injuries during the dressage or ground handling phases.
> 
> This doesn't mean not jumping = safe on a horse. Western riders do die from head injuries at times, and most of those who die without a helmet on would have survived if they had worn a helmet. Helmets are well designed and effective at protecting the head in a fall. Everyone needs to assess what makes them happy in riding, and what safety measures are needed to reduce the risk to an acceptable level. That choice needs to include what activities they do, as well as tack, training, horse, environment, etc. Helmet vs no helmet is too simplistic.


bsms - Do not look for zebras where they do not or would not exist. If it says on the flat, it means on the flat, not on the ground. Eventing is Dressage, Cross Country and Show Jumping, and these numbers reflect Eventing data. You were perfectly happy to use the old USCTA (Eventing) data, so I am not sure why you are arguing about using current FEI (Eventing) data.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I thought this thread at the start was about riders who rode more recklessly when they wore a helmet because it made them think they were invincible?
Silly idea but I can see that there are idiots like that about that would use their odd sense of logic to say that in that case wearing a helmet puts you at greater risk than not wearing one because if you don't wear one you'll ride very cautiously
Total nonsense of course because in reality accidents happen (as it did to me) when you least expect them too - but it takes all sorts I suppose.
I would never force anyone to wear a helmet (other than my kids or anyone that rides one of my horses) if they fall off on its not my head to worry about, however I would also never advise someone not to wear a helmet based on any of the reasons that are usually trotted out.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

updownrider said:


> bsms - Do not look for zebras where they do not or would not exist. If it says on the flat, it means on the flat, not on the ground. Eventing is Dressage, Cross Country and Show Jumping, and these numbers reflect Eventing data. You were perfectly happy to use the old USCTA (Eventing) data, so I am not sure why you are arguing about using current FEI (Eventing) data.


I'm not arguing about using it. In fact, I've now used your data in several posts. Why are you unhappy?

Yes, 'flat' does not mean 'ground accident'. It may or may not refer to dressage. What is your concern? Do you think the older statistics are now invalid, that folks have stopped falling during jumps and started falling in dressage? Has dressage become riskier in some way than it was in the 90s?

In the 90s, they divided injuries by type of competition - jumping vs dressage vs ground work. They no longer do so. Why? Is it because there were so few falls during dressage competition that it isn't worth mentioning?

In any case, we know - from the most recent statistics that you were kind enough to provide - that riders are 19 times more likely to fall at a jump than anywhere else during the competition. If wearing a helmet decreases risk of head injury 4-fold, then the decrease provided by wearing a helmet is swamped by the increase in injury 'at a jump'.

You seem to be seriously upset that I've cited 'old' data - not invalid data, but 'old - as one of the many studies indicating jumping is dangerous. The current data for eventing, which is NOT the only scholarly source, agrees with my conclusion.

Can you please tell me what your point is, and why you seem to take personal offense at my citing studies, ranging in age from the 70s thru the most current statistics given for eventing? ALL of the studies I've seen indicate jumping a horse is significantly more dangerous than not jumping. Do you have anything contrary to that, or can you explain why you are so upset over the injection of scientific studies and comparative statistics? :shock:


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## thetempest89 (Aug 18, 2013)

One of the well known race track trainers died here a few days ago. She got dragged and trampled to death by a horse. Did the helmet save her? No. But this is the horse world, we accept the dangers. Now, saying that. I still believe helmets should be worn. You just never know what might happen and that helmet will probably save your life. Most deaths that have occurred, least here in the lower mainland, the person would have survived if they had worn a helmet.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

My daughter got bucked off today while working with a particularly cantankerous and somewhat still green pony.

Her butt and back took most of the brunt of the fall, but the dirt on her helmet showed it made contact with the arena floor as well, and although it happened so quickly I think her head might have made contact with some leg and hoof on the way down as well. It was a good example of why we choose to make the wise decision to wear helmets.

The naysayers in this thread can do as they please (Yep, it's none of our business, but we are entitled to our opinions of such nonetheless), but those who don't want to temp darwin anymore than necessary will likely be like us and continue to wear our helmets.

The "You could break bones, riding is dangerous, body armour, steel toed boots, airbags, blah blah blah, so why bother wearing a helmet?" type arguments ring hollow with me.


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## jackboy (Jul 8, 2012)

This is just me I'm not advocating one way or the other, I have never nor do in intend to wear a helmet in all of my riding life rodeos and such I've never seen much less seen a helmet worn. I guess here in rural Oklahoma they don't exist lol to each there own.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

bsms said:


> Why are you unhappy?


:rofl:


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

When I started riding, nearly 60 years ago, we all had to wear riding hats. These were hunting caps, made of cork, lined with a satin type material which made them slippery on the head. They offered very little protection especially when they were a few years old and became soft. 
More important to the owners of the riding school was that you wore proper boots or of you did not own jodhpurs boots a pair of lace up shoes with a heel. 
When we rode the ponies to and from the fields, bareback and with just homemade halters we never wore our hats. With many of the things we got up to at these times, it is a wonder we were not all concussed to the hilt or even dead! 
The reason we survived was because falling off was a normal thing to occur. We learned from playing gymkhana games, how to land running. We learned how to roll out of the way should we not land on our feet and we learned how to rode by balance not by a forced position. 
Now that the UK has become so darned bewitched by Health and Safety, children are not encouraged to play gymkhana games, not taught how to jump off a horse at a canter and land running. 
Instructors are well aware that if a child falls they can be sued even of that child is not injured other than shocked. So children are encouraged to wear not only ultra safe helmets but also safety vests. They look like mushrooms on top of a pony and certainly restrict their agility.

I will not teach a child hen they are not wearing a hat, which is illegal for a child to ride without one in the UK, but I certainly dislike them wearing vests for day to day riding.


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## Houston (Apr 15, 2012)

To each their own... that's what I think. If you wear helmets, great. If not, fine.

Who am I to judge? I'm not living _your_ life!

But... I do like MY brain. So to protect MY brain and head, you will see me with a helmet 99% of the time!


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

So in the world of lies, **** lies and statistics, is this fall a flat or a jumping fall when you count it?

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-talk/accidents-happen-365353/#post4780897


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Would someone explain to me how wearing a helmet makes a person a sissy?

How does one get bullied when wearing a helmet? Does the other person go "haha you're being SAFE" and that shames the other person?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Golden Horse said:


> So in the world of lies, **** lies and statistics, is this fall a flat or a jumping fall when you count it?
> 
> http://www.horseforum.com/horse-talk/accidents-happen-365353/#post4780897


You would have to ask the FEI and the eventers who collect those statistics. I believe they have watchers who categorize what type of fall occurs and where it occurs.

But the statistics that say "95% of falls are at a jump" are not lies. Nor were the statistics that said 86% of falls occurred in jumping phases and only 1% during the dressage phase. Why is it hard for people to believe that jumping involves more risk than not jumping, and that the cross country phase of eventing is riskier than the show jumping phase?

What is improbable about this statement:

"_The author attended as medical officer at 54 days of horse trials from 1992 to 1997. This involves several phases such as dressage, show jumping, and cross country which involves jumping over fixed obstacles. Personal experience has shown that the last of these produces most of the injuries._" - Michael R Whitlock, Br J Sports Med 1999; 33:212–216

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1756171/pdf/v033p00212.pdf

If I was relying on only one study or one set of statistics to say jumping is significantly more dangerous than not jumping, then one could question the study set-up or statistics. But over the last couple of years, I've looked multiple times for studies, and every one says the same thing.

Yes, people can fall while not jumping. As I wrote in post #92: "_This doesn't mean not jumping = safe on a horse. Western riders do die from head injuries at times, and most of those who die without a helmet on would have survived if they had worn a helmet_."

I believe I've also brought up the death of Caprilli on this thread, and my own belief that Mia could fall on a paved road rather easily, and that is one of the reasons I use a helmet.

But statistics do not predict what happens to an individual rider on a given day. Statistics can tell us what is high risk or low risk. They cannot tell you a meteor won't hit you while you drive to work tomorrow.

What I object to is not helmets per se, but people who jump or who respect jumping (as I do) who then turn around and slam others who ride the flats without a helmet for being 'unsafe'. Jumping almost certainly increases the risk more than a helmet lowers it. Thus jumping with a helmet is more dangerous than riding the flats without one - so who is being 'selfish' or 'stupid' or 'deserving of a Darwin Award'? I don't attack others for jumping!

Based on my experience as a beginning rider, and based on the obvious elements of security built into them, an Aussie saddle is easier to stay on when the horse hits the fan than an English saddle. So if safety is paramount, why don't we require kids and beginners to ride using an Australian saddle instead of an English one?

To repeat my ending to post 92: "_Everyone needs to assess what makes them happy in riding, and what safety measures are needed to reduce the risk to an acceptable level. That choice needs to include what activities they do, as well as tack, training, horse, environment, etc. Helmet vs no helmet is too simplistic._"


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

PrivatePilot said:


> My daughter got bucked off today while working with a particularly cantankerous and somewhat still green pony.
> 
> Her butt and back took most of the brunt of the fall, but the dirt on her helmet showed it made contact with the arena floor as well, and although it happened so quickly I think her head might have made contact with some leg and hoof on the way down as well. It was a good example of why we choose to make the wise decision to wear helmets.
> 
> ...


Why does it ring hollow? Riding IS dangerous. I have broken both collar bones, an arm, dislocated my shoulder, and had a concussion all from being thrown , or jumping with no hands, or a horse tripping at a gallop while roping a runaway calf. None of that convinced me to wear a helmet.
I am still a bold rider even at my age.
I dont think the risk to my head is that great enough to wear one of those ugly uncomfortable pieces of plastic. In fact any hat to me is uncomfortable.
I have refused to take lessons from an instructor that insisted i wear a helmet.
The lady I now use was wise enough to watch me ride and is comfortable enough with my abilities to not insist that I do.
When I jump at her place I wear one . At home if I want to pop over a jump I don t.
When I start to show this year I will wear one but only in the arena and I will remove it ASAP. Just as I do a western hat.
At my age I have a full head of hair with very little gray so I like to show it off. LOL
I do appreciate the concern some of the members have for those of us who dont wear helmets. I do think however there are more serious problems to worry about. Shalom


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## madyasmkey (Jan 26, 2014)

dbarabians said:


> Why does it ring hollow? Riding IS dangerous. I have broken both collar bones, an arm, dislocated my shoulder, and had a concussion all from being thrown , or jumping with no hands, or a horse tripping at a gallop while roping a runaway calf. None of that convinced me to wear a helmet.
> I am still a bold rider even at my age.
> I dont think the risk to my head is that great enough to wear one of those ugly uncomfortable pieces of plastic. In fact any hat to me is uncomfortable.
> I have refused to take lessons from an instructor that insisted i wear a helmet.
> ...


I think it was more the point that hats do increase the level of safety on a horse and bones can usually be fixed. Not always. Usually. But life in itself is dangerous. You can trip up a curb and knock your head on concrete. Why don't we wear helmets, knee pads ect... When we're walking around? Because no-one want to Speen their life in fear of being hurt all the time. YOLO as some would say (I don't). Wearing body protectors are restricting and some I do think can cause riders to be more likely to fall (sometimes). Hats don't put you off your balance and restrict anything you do on a horse, but people in hot climates usually need sun hats as falling off usually isn't the biggest danger for them. But horses are to be enjoyed and whether that means wearing a hat or not it shouldn't matter, but people taking precautions shouldn't have their ways taken to the extreme to make it seem stupid because it's not. Not only is it law in some countries. Yes horses are dangerous, but they're fun and as long as the horse isn't being mistreated in anyway who are we to judge their style of riding of safety precautions?


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## picup436 (Nov 22, 2012)

I don't care if it's 40*C or over, my helmet goes on my head. I had a fall not so long ago where I honestly believe my helmet saved my life. My helmet was so badly damaged it was obvious from looking at it that I had to throw it away. Yet all I had was a bit of a headache and a sore neck for a day.

Over here people are more likely to be peer-pressured INTO wearing a helmet, not the other way around. Registered coaches won't teach without their pupils wearing a helmet either, it voids their insurance.

At the end of the day, it is up to the individual to make the decision to wear a helmet or not. I choose to wear one, but the enjoyment I get out of my riding isn't affected if Freddy down the road chooses not to wear a helmet.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

I have never questioned anyones reason to wear a helmet or not. It is none of my business if they choose to wear one or not.
I live in Texas and it is very difficult if not impossible to sue someone because of an injury sustained while riding. 
The Texas Civil Code protects livestock owners due to the inherent risk when handling livestock.
Miquel cannot sue my families estate because of the injuries he sustained from the incident with the bull. The same law applies to any injury incurred with an equestrian activity.
I am lucky to live in a country and a state that leaves the responsibility of injury or risk up to the individual.
I learned to ride on a welsh pony that was given to me at the age of 4.
she was only green broke and I rode her bareback for almost 6 years.
She bucked every time I rode her and as my father proudly stated if I really wanted to ride I would either stay on or hit the ground. To this day any horse has to buck pretty hard to throw me. I have been thrown only once in the last 10 years.
As I posted before all horses buck. All horses bite. All horses kick. That I am fully aware of I accept the risk every time I handle a horse.
My personal choice is that helmets are not mandatory .
I do not fear injury when I am near or handling livestock. I understand the risk of injury as well as anyone. With 33 horses and several hundred head of cattle owned by myself and my families estate living in fear is not an option. Shalom


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## Dawn854 (Aug 11, 2013)

Horseback riding is one of the most dangerous sports in the world. We're dealing with creatures ten times our weight and strength, with minds of their own, and a flight instinct that can kick in anytime. We've already mentioned Courtney King several times - her horse did nothing wrong except trip over his own feet, and she paid the price. Who knows what would have been different if she'd been wearing a helmet?

My friend was in a riding accident several years ago. We were galloping, she was standing in her stirrups, and her saddle started to slip. I remember turning back in my saddle and watching as she fell sideways, and the back of her head smacked hard into the ground. She was knocked out for several minutes, and when she awoke, she was dazed and had no short-term memory. She asked me three times "where am I?" in the space of ten minutes, and I thought she was going to die.

Luckily, she was wearing a helmet. I'm afraid to think of what could have been if she hadn't had any sort of head protection on.

I am pro-helmet. I would never get on a horse without one. I think those who don't wear helmets are misguided, but it's their choice. However, I do take offense to the idea that my tax dollars are going to pay for their medical needs when some of them suffer brain injuries as a result of not wearing a helmet. Accidents will happen when you least expect it, be on a young greenie or a seasoned show horse. Maybe you haven't had a terrible fall yet, but why take the risk? It only takes one time. And your brain is not replaceable.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

dbarabians said:


> I dont think the risk to my head is that great enough to wear one of those ugly uncomfortable pieces of plastic. In fact any hat to me is uncomfortable.


And right there is a good part of the root of the problem with helmets.

People place questionable things like their personal appearance ("Ugly") and and their comfort ("Uncomfortable") ahead of their personal safety.

The personal appearance issue is a tough one. I look at it from the same perspective as kids who think that smoking makes them look "Cool". Any sensible person realizes they're anything but, but in their mind they think they are. People who shy from helmets because they too think that they're "Ugly" get lumped into the same group in my mind.

And the uncomfortable argument also doesn't hold true. Maybe it's been a long time since you wore a helmet, and all those years ago perhaps they WERE uncomfortable, but not anymore. As I (and many others) said, a properly fitted helmet now almost becomes one with you - it's easy to forget you even have them on, _especially_ when your mind is elsewhere concentrating on riding.

As for refusing to take lessons anywhere where they insist on helmets, you may want to check if they actually carry any insurance where you're choosing to go then. I didn't think that insurers would even write a policy to any lesson facility that doesn't mandate helmets anymore.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

bsms said:


> What I object to is not helmets per se, but people who jump or who respect jumping (as I do) who then turn around and slam others who ride the flats without a helmet for being 'unsafe'. Jumping almost certainly increases the risk more than a helmet lowers it. Thus jumping with a helmet is more dangerous than riding the flats without one - so who is being 'selfish' or 'stupid' or 'deserving of a Darwin Award'? I don't attack others for jumping!
> _._"


I'm honestly not understanding your point here at all - and since all of the statistics you quote seem to be based on official eg -FEI records how on earth can they give a full picture?
Speaking as someone who's competed and participated in all of the 'high risk' jumping things I can assure you that I've had way more falls riding on the flat than I ever have jumping - I had one pony when I was only about 6 that flicked his heels and bucked me off every time they took the lead rein off him - until I learnt how to sit a buck and ride him through it.
I'm not sure that anyone is slamming people for not wearing a helmet - they are just stating why they feel its wise to wear one for their own personal safety
For someone like me that rode for 30+ years usually not wearing a helmet and then got a very hard wake up call its often a case of having your opinions changed the hard way. Luckily for me I lived to learn that lesson.


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## laurapratt01 (Oct 3, 2012)

I haven't read all of the previous posts but I thought I'd give my input  
I don't ride my personal horse with a helmet unless I'm at an event that requires it. 
My choice is based mostly on the "peer pressure" of the cowboy image. I like the look of riding helmetless. It looks more free and unrestricted. I also feel extremely safe on my horse. 
I don't judge people for wearing helmets and I usually wear one when I'm riding an unfamiliar horse. On the other side of things, I know so many people who voice their opinion about riding with a helmet and suggest that I'm an idiot to ride without. Well, I'm going to voice my opinion about it now.
I think that those people who wear a helmet while riding a horse that they've put into a situation that the horse is unprepared for are idiots. I know I'm safer than those people are without wearing a helmet because I've adequately equipped my horse for every situation I encounter. I put the hours in training at home. I trust him and he trusts me. Those people who have allowed significant gaps in their training because they want to go to an event or get to the next level are at more at risk than I am... even if they're wearing a helmet.
I know that all of us have seen people riding horses at shows that are nervous, anxious, and borderline uncontrollable. Horses that should have been pulled from classes (or never brought to the event in the first place) but weren't because the owners trailered their horse all the way there and they are going to show at any cost. These horses could and should have been better prepared. The owners of these horses are not safe....even if they wear a helmet.
I know that horses are unpredictable animals but when you work with them every day, exposing them to everything imaginable when you're at home, you know how and what they react to. At that point your horse becomes more predictable. You learn to read them better and know what situations they can handle and what you need to work on more. 
I don't wear a helmet because I know my horse. I know what he's ready for and I'm willing to put the time into training him. I'm willing to (and have done it before) take him to an event and not compete if I don't think he's ready. I can use that as a training day. Ride him around the grounds and then next time he'll be ready. I think that's safe.
I think that wearing a helmet does offer protection and it's an easy thing to do but I think that a better form of health insurance would be to know and prepare your horse. It's not as easy a throwing a helmet on but as far as safety is concerned I don't think there's anything better.... except for maybe not riding at all and seriously, who wants to do that?! 
Also, I'm wondering where you draw the line? Why must everyone wear a helmet but not a safety vest? I know your brain is important but isn't your spine as well? It's funny that a helmet is a must but a vest is an option....


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

^^ I've cited a number of studies, including surveys from South Africa and reviews of jumping all around the world. I have yet to see any study that would suggest jumping is anything less than 10 times more dangerous than not jumping. And that seems a pretty reasonable conclusion just from thinking about what a jump entails. Eventing seems a good place to do a comparison because it is the only sanctioned horse sport I can think of that has the same riders and horses doing cross country, show jumping and dressage. And the large majority of their injuries come in the cross-country phase, or at least while jumping.

"_I can assure you that I've had way more falls riding on the flat than I ever have jumping_"

I assume you have not spent an equal amount of time actually in a jump as you have on the flat. One of the reviews I've already cited included Pony Club statistics:"_It would seem that the proportion of horse riding accidents has increased as wealth and leisure have increased. In the USA horse riding is a rare cause of spinal sporting injuries and a very rare cause of admission compared with the UK units..._

_ ...The United States Pony Clubs Accident report for 1999 states that cross country schooling accounted for 22.5% of accidents, a percentage that was much larger than the time and numbers involved. In Australia injury rates were found to be especially high among event riders, with frequent falls, injuries, and even deaths. The highest injury rates were among the riders competing at the highest levels..._

_ ...Figures from the Jockey Club attempt to analyze the relative risks on proper epidemiological grounds in terms of the number of rides as opposed to the numbers of riders. They show that point to pointing is more dangerous than any other horse riding activity carrying risk of a fall in one in seven rides, injury one in 42 rides (2.4%) and one in 4.5 falls (22.4%). "_​Spinal injuries resulting from horse riding accidents

22.5% of accidents is not a majority, but it is out of proportion to the amount of time spent in that activity.

So is it wrong, or selfish, or stupid to jump? It will increase the risk of head injury. It is not a requirement. So why do it?

Well, because people enjoy doing it, and they are willing to take the risk - just as some people climb rock cliffs, and my BIL rides a motorcycle in rush hour traffic. Here in the Arizona desert, if I had a better horse, I might give up my helmet and wear a cowboy hat. I go to a dermatologist twice a year to have moles removed, and one last year was found to be packed with precancerous cells. Someone trail riding in southern Arizona might well be in greater danger from sun stroke, or heat exhaustion, or skin cancer than from breaking their head - depends on the trail, the rider, the horse, how long they go out, etc.

Helmets help me relax and enjoy my ride, but that is not true of everyone. If the wind in your hair or a cowboy hat in the sun is part of what makes you want to get on a horse, why is it wrong, stupid, or selfish? Or at least, why is it any wrong-er, stupid-er or selfish-er than jumping? Why do some act as if English riders jumping fences are taking acceptable risks, and a trail rider in Arizona is not - all based on 'helmet vs no helmet'?

That is too simplistic.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

So where are all the stats from the thousands of people who just get on their horses every day and ride on trails, country lanes, manages, indoor arena's, fields etc and fall off?
I've never had a single incident reported to anyone when I fell off in those sort of situations and don't know anyone who has


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

PrivatePilot said:


> And right there is a good part of the root of the problem with helmets.
> 
> People place questionable things like their personal appearance ("Ugly") and and their comfort ("Uncomfortable") ahead of their personal safety.
> 
> ...


Private Pilot I hate to wear a baseball cap on my head so a helmet is very uncomfortable. Even if I found one that was comfortable as I posted I would only wear it in the show ring. It is not about being cool. Its about comfort and freedom.
I am a 54 year old male and my self esteem does not depend on the approval of others.

Here in Texas as I posted livestock owners are immune from lawsuit under article 87 of the Texas Civil Code due to the inherent danger when handling livestock.
My families estate is fully insured and the only suggestion by the insurance agent was to display a sign explaining article 87. The same company insures my other properties and the horses were not a concern. My pit bull terrier was.
Miquels accident with the bull may raise our rates but we will not be cancelled. We have used the same company longer than I have been alive.
I can assure you that every livestock owner is protected here in Texas. Shalom


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

jaydee said:


> So where are all the stats from the thousands of people who just get on their horses every day and ride on trails, country lanes, manages, indoor arena's, fields etc and fall off?
> I've never had a single incident reported to anyone when I fell off in those sort of situations and don't know anyone who has


I'm glad to hear you haven't needed hospitalization.

Please check the studies for yourself. I've posted enough links. The information does NOT come only from eventing. It comes from hospital surveys, rider surveys, sports events, etc.

Use Google Scholar (Google Scholar) to look for others. Many are only available free as extracts. This should take you to a search for "horse falls":

horse falls - Google Scholar

This is a good, single source article published in Spinal Cord (2002) 40,264±271:

http://img2.timg.co.il/forums/1_100057126.pdf

Another good review of the literature and surveys from South Africa can be found here:

http://ir.dut.ac.za/bitstream/handle/10321/537/Catlin_2010.pdf?sequence=1

Data is to a helmet thread as Holy Water is to a Vampire...:?...guess my former training as a Safety Officer is showing.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Its really hard to get any sort of clear picture from these stats because you don't know how many of the accidents didn't result in a hospital visit because the rider was wearing either a safety vest or a helmet to protect them
It does say in the one UK survey that head injuries outnumbered spinal ones by 5 : 1 which led them to the conclusion that it requires less force to injure the head than it does to fracture the spine
American football players don't see to worry about wearing helmets yet Rugby players in a similar sport mostly don't wear them


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

jaydee said:


> So where are all the stats from the thousands of people who just get on their horses every day and ride on trails, country lanes, manages, indoor arena's, fields etc and fall off?
> I've never had a single incident reported to anyone when I fell off in those sort of situations and don't know anyone who has





jaydee said:


> Its really hard to get any sort of clear picture from these stats because you don't know how many of the accidents didn't result in a hospital visit because the rider was wearing either a safety vest or a helmet to protect them


^^^ Two very excellent points.

Short version: When you don't get hurt, you don't go to the hospital. I hate to say it, but at least one fall my daughter has had during her years of riding would probably have led to at least a precautionary check at the hospital (and I suspect left her a bit dazed) without her helmet.


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## n2sporthorses (Dec 16, 2013)

I still say I'll put on a helmet any time I get on a horse. I'll also put on my safety vest, like eventers wear.


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## Marcie (Jul 25, 2013)

laurapratt01 said:


> I haven't read all of the previous posts but I thought I'd give my input
> I don't ride my personal horse with a helmet unless I'm at an event that requires it.
> My choice is based mostly on the "peer pressure" of the cowboy image. I like the look of riding helmetless. It looks more free and unrestricted. I also feel extremely safe on my horse.
> I don't judge people for wearing helmets and I usually wear one when I'm riding an unfamiliar horse. On the other side of things, I know so many people who voice their opinion about riding with a helmet and suggest that I'm an idiot to ride without. Well, I'm going to voice my opinion about it now.
> ...


I have to say that some of this rubbed me the wrong way. I'm not trying to pick on you personally but I do want to respond to what you wrote here. 

I understand you know your horse but to think that he will never ever do something unpredictable is not even possible. No one knows the future. And what works for you might not work for someone else. Not everyone has the luxury of a horse that is easy going. Knowing and preparing your horse are important but not all horses respond the same ways and just because you've been riding the same horse for 2, 5, or 10 years doesn't mean that it dismisses you from random accidents. I don't think 'knowing' your horse is more important than wearing a helmet. They are both very important but for different reasons! Knowing your horse will allow you to know when you're getting over your head or when you should avoid something or how they might react, ect. A helmet will help protect you should something unavoidable and accidental happen. It is unfortunate that some people ride when maybe they or the horse aren't prepared but I wouldn't see that as a reason to not wear a helmet. So I'm not sure why that was brought up? Even if you are prepared they can still be helpful. 

And you are right, vests can be good too. I haven't done any research into it but from the doctors I've talked to personally most back accidents from riding tend to be break or fracture of the vertebrae, meaning the bone is damaged but they do not snap the spinal cord. Though if you do hurt your vertebrae and do not take care of it the disks can slip and this can cause the cord to snap. Sometimes the spinal cord is damaged though, ie Christopher Reeves. Brain injuries are like spinal cord injuries. They can affect your entire body. A fracture or break will hurt and need therapy But you will still be able to move your limbs ect. That may be why the rules are what they are but you'd have to ask an official for the correct answer. I'm only postulating.


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## laurapratt01 (Oct 3, 2012)

Hey Marcie,
Thanks for responding to my post! I just wanted to clarify, I brought it up because I think that preparation is a very good way to stay safe (as is wearing a helmet). And I think that there are many people that underestimate it. The two times that I attended a local, unrated show this year I saw 8 people take spills from their horses. 2 of them were jumping horses that obviously had extremely little training in it and the other 6 were from horses that were obviously extremely anxious before they even entered the ring. 2 of these riders even took a ride in an ambulance and one of the others riders probably should have. 
I am NOT saying that people shouldn't wear helmets. I think that that are easy, safe insurance. I am saying that when I don't wear a helmet on my horse, I shouldn't be judged by those that do (especially those who are riding ill prepared and thus dangerous horses). It's a choice.
Also, I know that not every horse is the same but I do believe that by training at home you can know what your horse is ready for and not put him in situations that are going to turn dangerous for you. I think training is a better safety measure than wearing a helmet.
I also realize that a horse can take a bad step, stumble and fall. I know of it happening to a woman that I know. She fell off in the mess of it all and when her horse what getting up he stepped on her abdomen tearing organs. She almost bled out and died right there. She spent over a month in the hospital. She was wearing a helmet. I'm not saying that helmets are bad AT ALL but if you want to eliminate the risk of getting injured... don't ride.
Not being argumentative, just trying to clarify but maybe I just muddied the waters instead. Sorry.


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

I wear a helmet occasionally. With horses I know and have a good feeling of (they're still unpredictable but I know what they'll do worst case scenario) I typically won't wear one. On horses that are the opposite I always wear one. I don't believe that they're the end all be all. I've seen a few people get seriously hurt because they had a helmet on or they received a different injury that the helmet couldn't protect. I myself took a horrible fall off of my horse (wearing a helmet) and ended up fracturing my collar bone, collapsing about six vertebrae in my spine and a whole bunch of other stuff that was only worse because I didn't get checked at a hospital. My head ironically enough never touched the ground. 

I think it's a personal choice from person to person. Kids I will always tell to wear a helmet but when they grow up they need to make that decision for themselves. A helmet is a way to reduce risk of cranial injuries but it won't protect you 100% of the time. As with anything else it is just there as a safety for some. In my mind I've been hurt worse by getting dragged by horses on the ground (because someone decided to put up thin construction tape where I couldn't see it and I got caught up in it with a skittish horse) and falling and hurting my back. 

So short version: A helmet does not make you invincible, it just offers a bit more protection.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

I saw this posted on FB today by a friend.

I'm guessing he's REALLY glad he had that helmet on.

What were all those excuses again?

Horseback rider kicked in head - YouTube


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Hmmmm...what saddle was he using? What activity was he engaged in? And what are the odds, and what is any given rider willing to risk?

I could show videos of motorcycle riders taking falls and being killed. I could post news articles about bicycle riders being struck by cars and killed. Yet, folks go on riding motorcycles and bicycles...because they accept the risk. And yes, they know that no bicycle helmet is proof against 4000 lbs of steel doing 50 mph!

My brother-in-law rides his motorcycle every day in Tucson, something you could not pay me to do...and I ride a horse more days than not, something you could not pay my BIL to do! Yet we somehow refrain from calling each other names.

I spent years strapping into ejection seats. Was I stupid? I went to funerals for co-workers. I once watched two guys punch out of an F-4 at George AFB, CA...and then strapped into an F-4 and took off on a mission. Did that make me a Darwin candidate?

For those who don't remember the F-4 Rhino:










If the horse's hoof had caught the rider in the face, would that mean we all ought to ride with face shields? If it had broken a rib and the bone pierced his heart, would it mean we all ought to ride with body protectors?

Why does everyone need to agree with YOUR level of risk acceptance, and your choice of mitigating factors? How would you feel if I said everyone should use Australian saddles, because only starvation will force a person out of one?


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

It's clear we're all just gonna go in circles in this thread and for every video like that where the helmet clearly saved someone from serious injury, there's going to be a bunch of reasonings from people here pooh-poohing them still. 

Don't wear one, I don't care. But I'll stand fast on this: The guy in the video was glad he had one on. I've fallen and was glad I had one on - I would likely have rattled my brains on at least 1 of them I remember without one. I've watched my daughter fall on more than a few occasions and was always glad she had one on, and it HAS without doubt saved her from injury as well.

NONE of these falls injured _anything_ else except for pride, but at least a few WOULD have likely injured our heads. We got up, dusted ourselves off, and walked away from all of them.

But others will surely debate the sensibilities still. Feel free.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I've had one fall. I was wearing a baseball cap. The back injury still bothers me over 5 years later. My head wasn't hurt at all. On that given day, I needed a body protector, and I didn't have one. 

All of us accept the higher risk of riding a horse when we don't need to, except for the handful who ride for work. If someone rides one of my horses, they will wear a helmet. Otherwise, like my BIL, they can make their own choices.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

I remember those F-4s bsms and how loud they were. As a security police officer, my squadron guarded them in Turkey.

Private Pilot I have been riding over 45 years. I have been thrown and kicked too many times to remember. A couple of times I have been kicked in the head. I still do not feel the need to wear a piece of plastic on my head everytime I am around a horse.
The risk of head injury IMO is minimal. I have broken bones, dislocated my shoulder, knocked a tooth out, and suffered a concussion. All while riding. None of that has compelled me to stop riding or to wear a helmet. I do not fear injury. 

I am a Psychologist with a PHD and am fully aware of how fragile the brain can be. Shalom


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## womack29 (Oct 30, 2011)

It is a choice to wear a helmet and I hate to hear people criticize others for not. I ride trail alone most if the time and had a fall yrs ago that I was told without my helmet in would not have survived. Min have been a nurse for 20 yrs and have seen many accidents from many sport activities and helmets do not always save a person
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## madyasmkey (Jan 26, 2014)

My mum is a nurse and has said a hat can be the worst thing ever to certain people. Most head injuries come from horses, those that don't wear a hat usually die. Those who did wear hats are sick in a wheel chair for the rest of their lives and those that can talk wish the injury would have killed them rather than being stuck in a wheel chair. Although hays can help, those with hats that sustain potentially life threatening injuries may stay alive, they sure as hell don't want to be when they recover as much as they ever will.


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## Janskee (Nov 16, 2013)

Head injuries account for about 15% of equestrian injuries, but 60% of deaths. Yes, wearing a helmet does decrease the risk of death or brain injury. I fell off a horse once and landed on my head. I'm sure that my helmet saved me from a head injury. Also, about 20-25% of head injuries occur when on the ground, from being kicked, etc. At my barn, a woman was walking her horse and he slipped on some snow and went down, taking her with him and hitting her head on the ground. She ended up with some pretty severe injuries (broken bones, etc.), but was fortunately wearing a helmet and had no head injury as a result. Her doctor said the helmet likely saved her life.

Helmets prevent or lessen head injuries in any number of sports, including biking and skiing. My husband hit a tree while skiing ~30 years ago when helmets weren't used, and he had to be airlifted from the ski area and was told that only ~5% of people with his kind of injury (head to tree impact) survive. He was very lucky. I worked with a man who was an expert skier and was on ski patrol, and he died a couple of years ago from hitting a tree while skiing, not wearing a helmet. 

People can certainly choose to wear a helmet or not when doing any sports with the possibility of head impacts (I just went skiing and didn't wear a helmet, for example), just as they can choose to drive without a seat belt, but it is just not credible to suggest that there is no good reason to wear a helmet.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

I am not saying they do not protect the head from trauma. They do.
I am saying that for me the risk is minimal and I do not fear injury.
Trust me I have been to the emergency room with broken bones, a dislocated shoulder, and a concussion all from riding as I have posted. I have landed on my face and knocked a tooth out.
Most of my horses are not beginner friendly. Most need advanced riders.
I handle two mature stallions everyday I know they can be unpredictable.
When I fear injury enough to wear a helmet every time I ride or work around a horse I will sell them all and retire from riding. Shalom


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## ManeEquinessence (Feb 11, 2014)

I wear a helmet a lot more now than I did as a kid. Though I admit I've been a bit negligent about it lately. From 25+ years of riding, I twist myself in the air as I'm falling so I don't land on my head, lol. But that's not a sure way to avoid head injury which is why I'm trying to be more diligent about it again.


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## horsedream568 (Nov 29, 2013)

I have a bright pink troxel helmet. I think it's comfortable but it really is super ugly. I got it for my birthday. I would've picked something more subtle then pink but oh well. Everyone around here rides western. EVERYONE. I do to. But no one wears helmets. Most my friends kinda laugh when they see me. It's embarrassing. But honestly if I had to choose between being wheelchair bound or humiliated. I'd pick humiliated every time.


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## Marcie (Jul 25, 2013)

laurapratt01 said:


> Hey Marcie,
> Thanks for responding to my post! I just wanted to clarify, I brought it up because I think that preparation is a very good way to stay safe (as is wearing a helmet). And I think that there are many people that underestimate it. The two times that I attended a local, unrated show this year I saw 8 people take spills from their horses. 2 of them were jumping horses that obviously had extremely little training in it and the other 6 were from horses that were obviously extremely anxious before they even entered the ring. 2 of these riders even took a ride in an ambulance and one of the others riders probably should have.
> I am NOT saying that people shouldn't wear helmets. I think that that are easy, safe insurance. I am saying that when I don't wear a helmet on my horse, I shouldn't be judged by those that do (especially those who are riding ill prepared and thus dangerous horses). It's a choice.
> Also, I know that not every horse is the same but I do believe that by training at home you can know what your horse is ready for and not put him in situations that are going to turn dangerous for you. I think training is a better safety measure than wearing a helmet.
> ...


thanks for explaining!  I completely agree. Your first post just didn't make sense to me haha. This does.  Sorry to hear about all those accidents! Wow, so many! People should really not worry so much about rushing themselves and their horses. It's better to take the time you need to do it right and have your whole life to do it then go fast and run the risk of getting over your head and Not even being able to do it anymore. I don't judge people that don't wear a helmet but I think if you are still learning it's even more important to give it some thought.


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## AFull99 (Feb 21, 2014)

madyasmkey said:


> I myself ride with a helmet, only because I have to though. I do think helmets are good and prevent damage to the head, I find that they can cause people to be unsafe. Like "Oh, I can jump that 8ft fence with my 12hh pony, it's safe because I have a hat on" obviously exaggerated; do you get my point? A lot of people rely on helmets and would do something with their house without a helmet, taking the keeping your head protected out of the equation, you can still be paralysed and break books and although body protectors help a little, they do say on the tags that they are not designed to protect the back.
> 
> My main point is that if you're not willing to do something without the protection of a hat, someone shouldn't think it is okay to do it with one. I know most people on here probably don't do things they aren't competent comfortable with because they have a hat on, if they do then probably like me and would do it regardless of protection.
> 
> I'm just saying this because I your annoyed with someone recently that said although they weren't confident they could do it, they felt save because they had a hat on. I called them a moron and got punched, but thought instead of going into school after half term and getting excluded for hurting some kid, I'd express what I thought on the Internet about them and hope they find it.



when i was a kid, i had a horse rear up, walk backwards, step in a hole and fall over, landing on me. i did nothing stupid. i had no helmet. i was injured. now i ride with a helmet. i have a daughter. i make her ride with a helmet. she doesn't do stupid things, on horseback. 

this past fall, we went riding with a friend, riding her horses. the horse that my daughter was on (my daughter rode this horse before, never a problem) was extremely docile, nothing ruffled this mare. until that day. we did a 7 mile trail. got 300 feet from the trailer, and the horse my daughter was riding, just lost it. my daughter was thrown. hard. the emergency department staff all said that if my daughter hadn't been wearing her helmet, things would have been completely different. but thanks to the helmet, my daughter only had a concussion. 

with horses, it's never a matter of IF you get hurt...it's a matter of WHEN you get hurt. no matter how great the horse you ride is, they can and will have a bad day, or trip or whatever. just because you wear a helmet doesn't mean you're gonna go out there and be stupid...or at least i should hope not. and i know a helmet isn't fool proof. but from where i'm sitting, i'm thankful for helmets, and my daughter and i will keep wearing them. 

and one more plus that i can think of, riding with a helmet. i ride a 17 hand horse. most of the trails we ride on are not groomed to accommodate a 17 hand horse, with or without rider. the helmet is great for deflecting branches


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