# Aggressive yearling



## summer09 (Jan 3, 2010)

My incredibly well mannered, calm yearling (19 months now) has recently started in with an attidude problem. He started with simply stopping and refusing to be led until he decided to, nothing I or anyone else at the barn did could get him to move. Now however, he has taken to refusing his halter and biting. When I change my tone to correct him, he pinns his ears and comes at me. He broke out the other day and reared at me, bit me and actually managed to knock me down in the process. I know this is totally unacceptable, and he's now grounded to his stall until I can handle him safely. I know he's healthy, and I know he's bored being inside in the winter. I believe that he's angre at me for this, but I really need some suggestions on how to work him out of this dangerous behavior without getting hurt. I'm not physically big enough to wrestle him around, which has been the only way to make him give recently. 
Please, any help is really apprieciated


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

Horses do not hold grudges, first off, so he is most likely not angry at you. Is this a gelding or a stud colt? As young as he is, I would put him on 24/7 turnout if possible, if not, as much turnout as possible. A little bit of cold or snow isn't going to kill him. Also, when he stops and refuses to lead, flick the end of your rope at him and get his feet moving. Not necesarrily forward, but moving. Or make him back up at a very fast pace. And either handle him with a rope halter only or a stud chain only.


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## TwisterRush (Sep 8, 2009)

^ Agree with the above poster. 
Also you need to keep in mind, that when you back away from his bad behaviour, you are giving him what he wants. you need to be firm and confident, if you get angry he will get angry.. they feed off you're 'emotional state', they can tell how you are feeling.. 
Anyway's when you get a halter on him, and he doesnt listen, as mentioned.. keep his feet moving, such as making him back up, he will soon realize there will be less work if he just listens to you.


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

A horse that suddenly acts 'aggressive' is a horse that senses a weakness and is doing what nature tells him to--take control of the leadership position. This yearling has no respect for you, plain and simple.

Unless, that is, you still have a colt. If that is the case, it is clear you must either send him to a trainer or geld him--stud colts are no joke.


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## Romantic Lyric (Dec 31, 2009)

Young horses go through "phases" just like children. It may not have been anything you did, just his hormones changing or kicking in. Is he gelded? Regardless, you need to reassert yourself as the dominant one in the relationship. 

He's definitely not angry at you, most likely needs much more turn out. Do you have an indoor arena? Run him around it. Giving him a "time-out" is not a solution. While I agree, handling him when you don't feel confident or capable is not a good idea, here's what he probably just associated with you actions: "I was a brat, and she left me alone. Therefore acting bad = not being messed with." Time-out doesn't quite work as well for horses as it does for children in most cases.

Make sure your body language is "big" when you correct him. Don't just change your tone of voice, draw yourself up as large as you can and get in his space. If he doesn't respond appropriately, make him back up. When he rears or kicks out at your I would beat his butt. Although, those are the only two behaviors that I think hitting him really hard is appropriate for because they can be SO dangerous if he keeps those habits as an adult horse. The longer you wait to seriously correct them, the harder it's going to be to show him who is boss.

I agree with the above poster that when they said to tap him on the butt if he doesn't want to walk forward, though any sort of movement is better than no movement. I would start carrying a dressage whip whenever you lead him until this problem goes away. Though, make sure it's that he's being obstinant and not "getting stuck" like a lot of yearlings do when they lead. Basically, how you can tell the difference is if they get stuck and stop, when you ask them to move forward again with a little encouragement, they just hesitate. If they're being stubborn, they lean back against your lead rope pressure and plant their feet.


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## summer09 (Jan 3, 2010)

Thank you all so much for the advice. He is a stud colt still, something I am definately looking to change. The only reason I have not so far is that I have seen and been told of a number of geldings that it didn't help, their behavior continued after the gelding. 
I would like to ask for some further advice about the suggestions to get him moving. He won't. At one point he backed up as soon as I said the word. He balks now though, and any effort to ask him to back, or even pick up a foot gets his teeth coming at me. 
His behavior has gotten worse in general since he has been denied pasture turn out. This was done, originally, becuase he blew through the electricc fence 3-4 times a day and took off. Or jumped it. Or pushed me aside when he was being led out. I had to promise the State Troopers I'd make sure he didn't get into town again.
I realize that he will not respect me until I demonstrate that I actually am in charge, and that I have to be to continue owning him. I'm just not sure how to train myself into that mentality.


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

first off, geld him. 

secondly now that i know he has no turn out, thats where most of your problems are coming from. he has WAY too much energy!!!!

part of his breaking out may be from his hormones kicking in. i would start with gelding and getting him back on turn out and see if his behavior improves before sending him off to a trainer. 

some horses can be studs all their lives and never act this way... other just cant handle their balls!! :lol:


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

summer09 said:


> Thank you all so much for the advice. He is a stud colt still, something I am definately looking to change.
> 
> *For heaven's sake, do it now!
> *
> ...


I have handled a lot of stallions. You must be fair and *consistent* when dealing with them. Once you establish a rule, you must ALWAYS make that rule something he is held accountable for.

If you are anywhere near me, I would be happy to come over and teach you how to handle him. I use more praise than correction, but correction is needed now. You must be firm before you are loving, IMO.



Edited: I just saw that you are in NY. Sorry, unless you buy the airline ticket, you are on your own ;>)


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

if he isnt intended to be bred, and of good breeding quality she should really geld him. especailly if hes breaking out of a paddock.... its only going to cause more unwanted foals....

ETA: ive delt with many stallions as well... some just DONT need to be stallions


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

AlmagroN said:


> *some* just DONT need to be stallions


Most.

I think you've gotten some very good advise. A stalled stud at that age is really asking for problems. I have to agree with getting him gelded ASAP - before attitude becomes habit.


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

iridehorses said:


> Most.


 i was giving the stallions the benefit of the doubt lol. but yes, most. unless there are good reasons for them to have them,of which breeding is the only one, and not many make those standards.... they dont need them...


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## Alicia (Mar 21, 2009)

Once he's gelded hopefully some of this behavior will go away or at least be more manageable. As for leading make (as other have posted) just make him move be it right or left or whatever, even make him work in some way so that going where you asked first off was less work than fighting you. He's young and testing you, this is where the real work comes in and you HAVE to be consistent and assertive letting him know that your the boss and he's not. Good luck and keep those feet and mind moving.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Geld him - ASAP. Our policy is no boarded stallions over one year of age. However, I've required anyone with a studdy colt under a year to geld or leave. Not worth the potential injuries to any one on my property.

I will disagree that horses don't hold grudges. They most certainly do remember circumstances and gain or lose respect for the human.


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## ReiningTrainer (Dec 30, 2009)

There are plenty of well bred studs that have been gelded due to bad attitude. I am not saying a professional could not turn them around, but you have already stated you are not able to handle him. All the responses this horse has given you are bold and plain, he will hurt you and not feel bad in the morning. Either get him to someone that can correct this or geld him before he puts you or someone else in the hospital. Your life and limb if far more valuable than this horse will ever be. If gelding does not help, get a professional or get a new horse. Again, your safety comes above any horse and be realistic, is this the right horse for you? Why do you have a horse? Let that answer guide your decisions.


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## fizzylizzy (Dec 26, 2009)

I'm not going to say much, coz i'm no expert, but i have handled a few colts, and i've learned that you need to try and think forward to what might happen before it happens, never let him take you by surprise, as he's a youngster, for instance when you're leading him, he might be walking along all nice and happy, and then suddenly rear up or something the complete opposite, you never know with youngsters, so you need to expect the unexpected! Another thing i've learned is that however scared he's making you, never, ever, ever let on to him that you are, coz that'll make it 50 times worse. You could be p*ssing your pants you're that scared, but you've got to kid him into thinking you're not intimidated by him. I'm not saying that your not confident or anything, i just know how it is when these stupid youngsters get all cocky! Just my two pennies worth, haha, put me right if i'm wrong!


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## laceyf53 (Oct 21, 2007)

When I was an inexperienced horse owner, I had a 2 year old stud colt. That colt did not respect me at all, would come after me, and I had no idea how to assert myself. One day he bit me so badly in the chest that he ripped my shirt off and I had to go to the hospital. From how things are going, you are in for this or worse if you don't do something now. This situation has to do with both his age and his testosterone. It will definitely help to get him gelded, and you will probably see a difference within the first couple of days because of his age. Right now, if you are going to handle him, make sure you have a stud chain and a dressage whip, and possibly a dull nail or something that if he REALLY invades your space or tries to shoulder you, as young colts often do, he can "run into" the nail. When he refuses to walk forward, you crank that stud chain and tell him to back up and get him out of your space. Until he walks forward, you bring the pain and get him out of your space. IF he comes at you, you go for him with that dressage whip and crank him with that chain. When he comes at you, if you back up or try to get away, you are giving in. Just being able to stand your ground will make him respect you that much more. He will no he is not allowed to invade your space, and that will make him safe to handle. If you don't stop this now, he will probably start standing up on you and trying to get away, and let me tell you, that is not what you want! 

Just know that there is so much to learn from this experience. I am very confidant at handling stallions now, and I can do it without artificial aids. Just do what you can and don't get discouraged! You CAN and WILL fix this situation.


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## Romantic Lyric (Dec 31, 2009)

Geld him. Like Allison said, the hormones will eventually work themselves out of his system. It make take a few months, but you WILL see a difference. But the longer you wait, the longer it's going to be before you see that difference.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Here are my questions, and some answers:

1) Stalling an already excitable horse is not the answer - this will lead to more pent-up energy that will need an outlet... i.e. through misbehaving. If he is disrespecting your electric fence, it's time to figure out a better way of containing him - either with a stronger voltage, or a different type of fencing - I do NOT recommend wire for a horse that is disrespecting a fence; a plank-type fence would probably be best.

2) If you are not comfortable handling this horse, hire a professional. The more this horse gets away with now, the pushier he's going to get... and he's going to get bigger. The last thing you want is a horse that thinks he can dominate humans. Please do not allow this to happen. In today's market, where nice horses are selling a dime a dozen, aggressive horses like what you are describing in your OP are not going to good homes, they are ending up in a meat pen. 

3) What does he get for feed?


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

JDI is teh awesome.

I'm from FiSH.


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

laceyf53 said:


> if you are going to handle him, make sure you have a stud chain and a dressage whip, and possibly a dull nail or something that if he REALLY invades your space or tries to shoulder you, as young colts often do, he can "run into" the nail.


WHAT?!?!




laceyf53 said:


> When he refuses to walk forward, you crank that stud chain and tell him to back up and get him out of your space. Until he walks forward, you bring the pain and get him out of your space. IF he comes at you, you go for him with that dressage whip and crank him with that chain. When he comes at you, if you back up or try to get away, you are giving in. Just being able to stand your ground will make him respect you that much more. He will no he is not allowed to invade your space, and that will make him safe to handle.


you need to learn how "tools" actually should be used. you dont CRANK on stud chains. they are there to let the horse feel pressure when they push against them and therefore they do not like the feeling and stop. 

and im sorry but this NEVER means the horse is "safe" to handle. what it can mean is they are easier, but not safe. he also will look for a time that you JUST HAPPEN to let your guard down because you "think" hes safe. then you can feel how safe he is. :-|


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## fizzylizzy (Dec 26, 2009)

AlmagroN said:


> WHAT?!?!


i agree ^^

i do sometimes use a whip when handling a young horse if needed, or give them a thump if they barge me, i'm not a believer in letting the horse walk all over me - i do believe that they have to be put in their place, but there's ways to do it and i don't think i'd do the blunt nail trick, tbh might turn out dangerous if they decided to go all spooked about it? :-o


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

fizzylizzy said:


> i agree ^^
> 
> i do sometimes use a whip when handling a young horse if needed, or give them a thump if they barge me, i'm not a believer in letting the horse walk all over me - i do believe that they have to be put in their place, but there's ways to do it and i don't think i'd do the blunt nail trick, tbh might turn out dangerous if they decided to go all spooked about it? :-o


did not say blunt, just DULL..... nothing like puncturing a horse to prove a point!!! :evil:


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## fizzylizzy (Dec 26, 2009)

AlmagroN said:


> did not say blunt, just DULL..... nothing like puncturing a horse to prove a point!!! :evil:


oops sorry, meant to put dull but was thinking blunt for some reason, and i don't think you're gonna puncture them, lol, i do know what you mean  but it wouldn't be something i'd do myself!


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## fizzylizzy (Dec 26, 2009)

duh am i getting mixed up with who i'm talking to here?  sorry peeps, i'm tired!


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

fizzylizzy said:


> oops sorry, meant to put dull but was thinking blunt for some reason, and i don't think you're gonna puncture them, lol, i do know what you mean  but it wouldn't be something i'd do myself!


 if they run into it hard enough to will. think about a horse who runs into you with its shoulder NOT knowing its there. they wont know that if they ram you so hard it will puncture... what if something spooks them and they run into you. theyre nothing thinking "boy i better stop or else im going to get poked with a nail!"


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## fizzylizzy (Dec 26, 2009)

AlmagroN said:


> if they run into it hard enough to will. think about a horse who runs into you with its shoulder NOT knowing its there. they wont know that if they ram you so hard it will puncture... what if something spooks them and they run into you. theyre nothing thinking "boy i better stop or else im going to get poked with a nail!"


i know, thats exactly why i wouldn't do it!


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## laceyf53 (Oct 21, 2007)

AlmagroN said:


> WHAT?!?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're going to tell me that you have never cranked a stud chain on a stallion when they purposely charge your space or disrespect you?? I'm not saying crank the stud chain all day every day, but if they aren't listening to you, they need to learn what the stud chain is there for! If he is just going to stand there, and no amount of waving hands, tapping with lead rope, or making noise is going to make him move, crank the stud chain and make him back up! I've seen all my dressage trainer do it, and everyone else I know that owns a stallion or a snotty gelding.


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

laceyf53 said:


> You're going to tell me that you have never cranked a stud chain on a stallion when they purposely charge your space or disrespect you?? I'm not saying crank the stud chain all day every day, but if they aren't listening to you, they need to learn what the stud chain is there for! If he is just going to stand there, and no amount of waving hands, tapping with lead rope, or making noise is going to make him move, crank the stud chain and make him back up! I've seen all my dressage trainer do it, and everyone else I know that owns a stallion or a snotty gelding.


 you want my honesty? yep, never have. because i KNOW how its supposed to be used. and its NOT there to crank on. a nice loud voice correction works in conjunction with the stud chain when its used right. if you have a stud chain on a horse they SHOULDNT be able to charge you anyway


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## fizzylizzy (Dec 26, 2009)

AlmagroN said:


> you want my honesty? yep, never have. because i KNOW how its supposed to be used. and its NOT there to crank on. a nice loud voice correction works in conjunction with the stud chain when its used right. if you have a stud chain on a horse they SHOULDNT be able to charge you anyway


i suppose different people work in differents ways, and they do what they prefer - which others might not prefer. It might work for some people and their horses, and it might not work for other people and their horses. I'd say as long as it isn't putting either you or the horse in any sort of threat or serious danger, if it works for you and the horse, do it! :lol:


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

but that kind of behavior IMHO has no place in training horses


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## laceyf53 (Oct 21, 2007)

AlmagroN said:


> you want my honesty? yep, never have. because i KNOW how its supposed to be used. and its NOT there to crank on. a nice loud voice correction works in conjunction with the stud chain when its used right. if you have a stud chain on a horse they SHOULDNT be able to charge you anyway


Exactly! They shouldn't be able to charge you, but when they don't respect you to this point, where they blatantly run you over and break out of pastures...I think you are dealing with a case where cranking with the stud chain is necessary. This colt has no training, and I agree with the people who say send him to a trainer. But who is going to handle him for now? Everyone starts somewhere, and obviously the OP is over her head by a lot. If it's between me getting hurt or the horse getting hurt, it's going to be the horse. When you have unruly, wild like behavior, you have to resort to techniques like these to keep from getting hurt and teaching a horse that it's not O.K. ESPECIALLY if you don't have the animals respect. This is why there are artificial aids, to help those who can't do it without them. She is not going to draw blood or leave marks on this horses body, you are making this out to be worse than it really is.


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## fizzylizzy (Dec 26, 2009)

laceyf53 said:


> Exactly! They shouldn't be able to charge you, but when they don't respect you to this point, where they blatantly run you over and break out of pastures...I think you are dealing with a case where cranking with the stud chain is necessary. This colt has no training, and I agree with the people who say send him to a trainer. But who is going to handle him for now? Everyone starts somewhere, and obviously the OP is over her head by a lot. If it's between me getting hurt or the horse getting hurt, it's going to be the horse. When you have unruly, wild like behavior, you have to resort to techniques like these to keep from getting hurt and teaching a horse that it's not O.K. ESPECIALLY if you don't have the animals respect. This is why there are artificial aids, to help those who can't do it without them. She is not going to draw blood or leave marks on this horses body, you are making this out to be worse than it really is.


100% agree with you there!


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

laceyf53 said:


> She is not going to draw blood or leave marks on this horses body, you are making this out to be worse than it really is.


really because cranking stud chains DOES leave a mark. ive seen it many many times. also this is a yearling who has not been gelded and been pent up in a stall. before you go around yanking on his head and slapping him with whips all the time you need to understand WHY he is like this. he has TOO MUCH ENERGY. getting this guy out in a paddock and gelded is what it mostly going to help him. as yearlings they are sponges, everything you do to them is going to shape who they are in the future. he needs exercise mostly. if you read before he had to be kept in a stall all the time he was very calm and well mannered. this is a HUGE key to what the problem is now.

and i agree if the horse is INTENTIONALLY trying to hurt you to do everything in your power to avoid being hurt, but in this case, most of this is resulting for pent up energy and hormones. he doesnt know what else to do anymore.

ETA: the calmest of my horses can get nasty when on stall rest. i have one right now that is this way. hes the sweetest thing in the world, never does anything wrong. but now on stall rest he is nippy, kicks, rears, etc. he doesnt know what else to do with that energy!


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## laceyf53 (Oct 21, 2007)

fizzylizzy said:


> 100% agree with you there!


Thank you. I am just trying to help, because I understand extreme situations. It is really hard to own a dangerous animal, and compared to most horse owners, I have worked with and often (unfortunately) been injured by animals that are extreme cases. I donate a lot of my time to a horse rescue near my house, and most of those animals are beaten, starved, or know absolutely nothing. Every horse, every situation is so completely different. When I respond with advice, it's often stuff that I do not do on a regular basis, but I know will work in extreme situations. This stud colt that I had I got for free from a lady who had kept him in a stall for 2 years because everyone was afraid of it. I was in over my head, and I had to learn that when you don't have the respect of an animal that doesn't KNOW better, or really know anything, you have to resort to methods you wouldn't use on a well handled, well started colt. Young, gutzy colts will run straight through a stud chain, right through it like it isn't there. I've had it happen, and because of my experience, I have no problem giving it a crank if it's necessary. I am not condoning abuse, and I do not find these methods abusive..I find them necessary in this situation!


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## fizzylizzy (Dec 26, 2009)

i suppose it all depends on how hard you crank it, i personally wouldn't do it hard enough to leave a mark, just enough to teach him.

I understand about the need for him to let off steam, perhaps the OP should let him out as much as possible (this has probably been suggested already), as at his age he'd much prefer to be out even in the cold, than inside, as i'm sure you know.

Perhaps some sort of stable toy would help, to keep him busy whilst he's in the stable so that when he does get taken out, he's not raring to go coz he's been bored stiff for ages?

Also, if it was my horse, i would ask if i could turn him out with or stable him next to a calmer, older horse, just to act 'mother' or 'father' to him and have that calming influence, it had a brilliant effect on my filly!


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## laceyf53 (Oct 21, 2007)

AlmagroN said:


> really because cranking stud chains DOES leave a mark. ive seen it many many times. also this is a yearling who has not been gelded and been pent up in a stall. before you go around yanking on his head and slapping him with whips all the time you need to understand WHY he is like this. he has TOO MUCH ENERGY. getting this guy out in a paddock and gelded is what it mostly going to help him. as yearlings they are sponges, everything you do to them is going to shape who they are in the future. he needs exercise mostly. if you read before he had to be kept in a stall all the time he was very calm and well mannered. this is a HUGE key to what the problem is now.
> 
> and i agree if the horse is INTENTIONALLY trying to hurt you to do everything in your power to avoid being hurt, but in this case, most of this is resulting for pent up energy and hormones. he doesnt know what else to do anymore.
> 
> ETA: the calmest of my horses can get nasty when on stall rest. i have one right now that is this way. hes the sweetest thing in the world, never does anything wrong. but now on stall rest he is nippy, kicks, rears, etc. he doesnt know what else to do with that energy!


Unfortunately this horse is intentionally trying to hurt the OP now. I know he needs turn out, but her safety has to come first. And I have never ever left a mark on a horse from a stud chain, perhaps you and I are putting them on differently. I would not crank a stud chain if it were applied around the crown and over the nose, or through the lip. I do not put them on in any way that applies leverage. I don't have anything against putting them on that way, I just don't feel comfortable doing it.


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## fizzylizzy (Dec 26, 2009)

laceyf53 said:


> Thank you. I am just trying to help, because I understand extreme situations. It is really hard to own a dangerous animal, and compared to most horse owners, I have worked with and often (unfortunately) been injured by animals that are extreme cases. I donate a lot of my time to a horse rescue near my house, and most of those animals are beaten, starved, or know absolutely nothing. Every horse, every situation is so completely different. When I respond with advice, it's often stuff that I do not do on a regular basis, but I know will work in extreme situations. This stud colt that I had I got for free from a lady who had kept him in a stall for 2 years because everyone was afraid of it. I was in over my head, and I had to learn that when you don't have the respect of an animal that doesn't KNOW better, or really know anything, you have to resort to methods you wouldn't use on a well handled, well started colt. Young, gutzy colts will run straight through a stud chain, right through it like it isn't there. I've had it happen, and because of my experience, I have no problem giving it a crank if it's necessary. I am not condoning abuse, and I do not find these methods abusive..I find them necessary in this situation!


i know just what you mean, it's not something you use as a method of training, just a short, sharp shock to let them know they were wrong, am i right?


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

nothing like cranking on a stud chain thats under the lip to make the gums bleed! i give up. hopefully the OP gelds him and can get him into a safe turnout where he can get out this energy..... and if he is still not able to be handled by her find a GOOD TRAINER or sell him.... not use nails and crank on stud chains.... ridiculous....


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## laceyf53 (Oct 21, 2007)

fizzylizzy said:


> i know just what you mean, it's not something you use as a method of training, just a short, sharp shock to let them know they were wrong, am i right?


yes, exactly. and once you learn how to handle a stallion and the two of you build a respectful relationship, in most situations you can get rid of all the artificial aids. Stallions are never safe or predictable, but when you have enough experience, you can handle them with a good rope halter and a dressage whip..if you even need that. I don't know, it's hard to explain. But especially in a situation where you are afraid and the horse knows it, and you MUST handle them, you need to be prepared to MAKE the horse respect you, since you can't ask any more.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

My gelding was a stud until last May. He was well behaved but did need some firm handling at times. He's even had to have a gum chain(when he was being brought in on the ice and acting, was for his safety and my grandmothers). He has no lasting effects. He's been yanked. A short, quick yank will not do any harm, it will get his attention. The OP needs to get this horse gelded. Judging by his attitude he is not stallion material anyway. Geld him and hire a trainer.


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## fizzylizzy (Dec 26, 2009)

laceyf53 said:


> yes, exactly. and once you learn how to handle a stallion and the two of you build a respectful relationship, in most situations you can get rid of all the artificial aids. Stallions are never safe or predictable, but when you have enough experience, you can handle them with a good rope halter and a dressage whip..if you even need that. I don't know, it's hard to explain. But especially in a situation where you are afraid and the horse knows it, and you MUST handle them, you need to be prepared to MAKE the horse respect you, since you can't ask any more.


I know what you mean, when my filly was little and i started handling her more, she used to try and catch me off guard to barge off in front of me, and it only took one or two thumps to make her realise i wasn't for having it. i wouldn't touch her unless she pushed it too far, and she knows when that happens that she has pushed it. She very, very rarely tries to barge off on me now, she knows the 'i'm warning you' tone of voice, which is what i now use more regular, along with a little shove in the shoulder if needed. what i'm getting at is - you have to teach them if they push it, and after that they will respect you for it, as long as you reward them equally for their good points as well, which i do.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

AlmagroN said:


> you want my honesty? yep, never have. because i KNOW how its supposed to be used. and its NOT there to crank on. a nice loud voice correction works in conjunction with the stud chain when its used right. if you have a stud chain on a horse they SHOULDNT be able to charge you anyway


You must not handle stallions too much. Those chains are across their nose to create some pain compliance when needed. A quick yank (crank) is what they are designed to do. A loud voice does nothing but communicate your nervousness and fear, IMO. I use a quick yank and a low voiced command, not yelling.

And I have used a dull pointed stick to poke the shoulder of stallions who try to crowd me, too.

A quick question I would like to ask.....how do YOU rig a stud chain and how do you use it to prevent a charging stallion, if not pull on it?


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

Allison Finch said:


> You must not handle stallions too much. Those chains are across their nose to create some pain compliance when needed. A quick yank (crank) is what they are designed to do. A loud voice does nothing but communicate your nervousness and fear, IMO. I use a quick yank and a low voiced command, not yelling.
> 
> And I have used a dull pointed stick to poke the shoulder of stallions who try to crowd me, too.


 sorry to tell you but i have delt with many many stallions. and never had to use a pointed stick or anything like that. typically after a little work with them i use nothing but a rope lead. ive had atleast 10 stallions in my barn in the last year, and never had to treat them like that.

and i didnt mean yelling like yelling and screaming, i meant like a quick loud deep "hey!" i should have written that better


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## fizzylizzy (Dec 26, 2009)

Allison Finch said:


> You must not handle stallions too much. Those chains are across their nose to create some pain compliance when needed. A quick yank (crank) is what they are designed to do. A loud voice does nothing but communicate your nervousness and fear, IMO. I use a quick yank and a low voiced command, not yelling.
> 
> And I have used a dull pointed stick to poke the shoulder of stallions who try to crowd me, too.


poking is a different story, i just dont agree with having one there ready for them to run into, don't think it's too safe :shock:


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## fizzylizzy (Dec 26, 2009)

AlmagroN said:


> sorry to tell you but i have delt with many many stallions. and never had to use a pointed stick or anything like that. typically after a little work with them i use nothing but a rope lead. ive had atleast 10 stallions in my barn in the last year, and never had to treat them like that.


its like i said before, it might suit you and your horses, but not work at all for another person and their horses. Everyone has their own way of doing things, as long as its not animal cruelty and they know where the limits are, i'd say it was OK.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Alma,
The stallion I am riding in my avatar was a seven year old breeding stallion that was SO rank no one wanted to try to put him under saddle. He was VERY difficult to handle to breed, as well. He was big and rude. I started working with him using a stud chain but would engage it only when necessary. I carried a dressage whip and I would smack him once on the cannon bone to make him stop any dangerous behavior. Once he stopped, I would use praise for the fact that he stopped. Within two weeks he and I were good friends and he respected my role as leader. I rarely had to resort to yanking the chain, but I did on several occasions. It was what was needed. If I had tried to deal with this big guy otherwise, it may not have turned out as well. This horse improved because he sought the praise I was always ready to give him. However, he was also aware that there would be repercussions if he tried to strike, charge or any other unsafe behavior. People who watched this were amazed at the close partnership we had. There was no abuse here.

The main force of my training is positive reinforcement, but without stopping dangerous behavior, you can find it difficult to get to where you canAN praise

How do you "rig" a stud chain (since you say you use one) and how do you employ it? How do you correct a 1300 lb stallion charging or crowding you? By saying "no, bad horsie?" lol!


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

Allison Finch said:


> However, he was also aware that there would be repercussions if he tried to strike, charge or any other unsafe behavior.


 i agree, but there are methods that were brought up that i dont think are appropriate, especially with a yearling.



Allison Finch said:


> How do you "rig" a stud chain (since you say you use one) and how do you employ it? How do you correct a 1300 lb stallion charging or crowding you?


stud chains go over the nose and up the side, or just over the nose, it depends on who i am using it on and what i am using it for. all horses tow with a stud chain (towing means we drive one horse and they are running at the side of the cart either held by the person who is driving or another person sitting on the side) in that case we use it over the nose and up the side at all times. this is not for correction per say so much as it is it does not allow them to pull hard on us because of the pressure on them when they do pull against the chain, they back off.

over the nose only when i have a really hot walker/misbehaved horse. as before it is used as pressure when they pull ahead. i have had some try to run through the chain. pressure is then applied by me to increase it slightly. it is not snapped or cranked. just firm pressure.

if a horse crowds me, ill give him my elbow into the shoulder, pressure, not a hard jab and a "hey" to get attention. thats typically all it takes. 

charging me is different. it depends on the horse. some will stop as soon as i raise my hand and give a "hey", it depends how long i have had them for. it also depends if they mean it or not. ears pinned taking a couple charging steps at me but then backing off is a warning, and therefore they get a warning as well. a smack and a hey. if its a full on charge, i will do what i need to, i have taken a pitchfork (the wooden handle with plastic basket) and wacked one across the chest. that one time is usually all it takes. it doesnt hurt them, but stuns them.


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## laceyf53 (Oct 21, 2007)

AlmagroN said:


> i agree, but there are methods that were brought up that i dont think are appropriate, especially with a yearling.
> 
> 
> stud chains go over the nose and up the side, or just over the nose, it depends on who i am using it on and what i am using it for. all horses tow with a stud chain (towing means we drive one horse and they are running at the side of the cart either held by the person who is driving or another person sitting on the side) in that case we use it over the nose and up the side at all times. this is not for correction per say so much as it is it does not allow them to pull hard on us because of the pressure on them when they do pull against the chain, they back off.
> ...


That's all well and good, but you didn't say what you do when a horse charges you when you have a stud chain attached. Especially because the OP stated she was knocked down and BIT by her colt. I just don't understand what you want her to do besides geld her colt and get a trainer.. because that is obvious, and I think the OP has plans on doing that. Until then, someone has to take the colt to the pasture, someone is going to have to handle the colt to get gelded...and I'm pretty fricken certain that "holding" pressure on a colt that doesn't understand pressure and release is going to **** him off and he's going to either rear up or strike the OP. I just want to see you actually give her advice, because let's be real here, no amount of "geld him and get a trainer" is going to help her in this situation. The horse is hurting her!!! We are past the testing stage!


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

laceyf53 said:


> Until then, someone has to take the colt to the pasture, someone is going to have to handle the colt to get gelded...and I'm pretty fricken certain that "holding" pressure on a colt that doesn't understand pressure and release is going to **** him off and he's going to either rear up or strike the OP. I just want to see you actually give her advice, because let's be real here, no amount of "geld him and get a trainer" is going to help her in this situation. The horse is hurting her!!! We are past the testing stage!


you apparently didnt read where the horse IS NOT getting turned out!! what do you think his freaking problem is stemming from??? he was breaking out of his paddock probably DUE to his having not been gelded yet, therefore he can not be turned out because they dont have adequate fencing to keep him in. until he is gelded they probably arent going to get anywhere with him unless he is sent to a trainer because she does not know how to handle him and he can not get the exercise he needs!!


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

If no turnout is available I would lunge the crap out of him. Or pay someone to do it.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Allison Finch said:


> The main force of my training is positive reinforcement, but without stopping dangerous behavior, you can find it difficult to get to where you canAN praise


This is what so many people miss when they insist all can be done with butterflies and rainbows. 

I agree with your techniques. Obviously all training techniques are horse specific. But once a horse knows it can run over you it is past the time to pat it on the face and love it into submission.


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## laceyf53 (Oct 21, 2007)

Yes I read that, I just don't understand why you are being rude about this. I'm sure she can still turn him into the round pen or into an arena. Obviously you don't agree with my suggested method, but you still haven't suggested anything for this girl to try. You are not being realistic; you don't have dangerous horses that are running you over. She will not cause any harm to this yearling because I DID it with a horse the same age and he is 6 now, and is a kids show pony and awesome! There was no blood, no marks, no beating, no bleeding gums... I had to work with him until he was gelded, and so does this girl. Please stop jumping to conclusions and making assumptions. I could accuse you of being abusive for using a plastic pitch fork on a horse...because technically, if he charged you, you could break the skin. But guess what? I've done the same thing with a plastic pitch fork. So can you give her some REAL advice?


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> This is what so many people miss when they insist all can be done with butterflies and rainbows.
> 
> I agree with your techniques. Obviously all training techniques are horse specific. But once a horse knows it can run over you it is past the time to pat it on the face and love it into submission.


 im not saying that. im saying we have to look at where this behavior is stemming from though. its not from just wanting to be ignorant, hes not getting any exercise at all, so what do you expect of him right now? hes young and is doing nothing, and now has hormones that are starting to become more pronounced. 

and i agree with the lunging comment. i was going to say that before but kept forgetting. 

he needs some kind of stimulation. he has nothing.


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

laceyf53 said:


> Yes I read that, I just don't understand why you are being rude about this. I'm sure she can still turn him into the round pen or into an arena.


 did you think not everyone has these? i dont... 



laceyf53 said:


> Obviously you don't agree with my suggested method, but you still haven't suggested anything for this girl to try. You are not being realistic; you don't have dangerous horses that are running you over.


 yes i have. get him gelded and get him exercising, and im sure she will see a huge turn around in behavior



laceyf53 said:


> Please stop jumping to conclusions and making assumptions. I could accuse you of being abusive for using a plastic pitch fork on a horse...because technically, if he charged you, you could break the skin. But guess what? I've done the same thing with a plastic pitch fork. So can you give her some REAL advice?


 how am i going to break skin using the flat side of the basket? prey tell me..?? i dont march around using "dull nails".... so it doesnt mean my advise isnt REAL. and personally there are a lot of things inexperienced horse owners SHOULD not get into. this is one. she needs a trainer, she obviously is ready for this.


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## laceyf53 (Oct 21, 2007)

AlmagroN said:


> did you think not everyone has these? i dont...
> 
> yes i have. get him gelded and get him exercising, and im sure she will see a huge turn around in behavior
> 
> how am i going to break skin using the flat side of the basket? prey tell me..?? i dont march around using "dull nails".... so it doesnt mean my advise isnt REAL. and personally there are a lot of things inexperienced horse owners SHOULD not get into. this is one. she needs a trainer, she obviously is ready for this.


LOL. You are very rude. I don't "march around using dull nails". You also didn't say you use the flat side of the basket. I don't even know how in a split second you can make sure you are using the flat side of the basket, if a horse is really charging you and you have to react quickly, it is easy to accidentally use the other side. You obviously know what you are talking about, never did I challenge that when I asked you to give her some "real" advice. I would just like it if you took her situation into account. She's not going to instantly get a trainer and instantly get her horse gelded. She has to do something in the mean time, so if you don't agree with me, tell her how she should reprimand a horse that can't just stand in a stall until she has the time and money to get him gelded. I would also appreciate it if you stopped attacking me, since I am definitely not attacking you. Lunging the horse is good advice, however she still has to get the horse out of the stall without being bit or run over...so if you disagree with me so much, why don't you tell her how to do it without cranking the stud chain, or using a DULL, NOT SHARP, NOT GOING TO PUNCTURE the horse object.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

Yes, you do need to take into account his reasons for his behaviour. However, rearing, biting, striking and stud-like behaviour are unacceptable in my eyes. Chopper learned very quickly what the stud chain meant and that he had to behave or he was going to get cracked. He was never that bad, even as a 3 year old with 6 other mare in the barn. He never bit, never struck, never kicked. He did however rush the gate to bring him in and crowd when leading. With effective use of the chain he now walks when I walk, stops when I stop, moves over when I move over, takes one step if I take one step, etc. All on a loose rope, sometimes without one. This horse needs to be gelded asap and in the meantime she needs to put a chain over his nose and yank it when he misbehaves. I also agree with the dressage whip. Carry it, even if it's only for your own protection.


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

laceyf53 said:


> LOL. You are very rude. I don't "march around using dull nails". You also didn't say you use the flat side of the basket. I don't even know how in a split second you can make sure you are using the flat side of the basket, if a horse is really charging you and you have to react quickly, it is easy to accidentally use the other side. You obviously know what you are talking about, never did I challenge that when I asked you to give her some "real" advice. I would just like it if you took her situation into account. She's not going to instantly get a trainer and instantly get her horse gelded. She has to do something in the mean time, so if you don't agree with me, tell her how she should reprimand a horse that can't just stand in a stall until she has the time and money to get him gelded. I would also appreciate it if you stopped attacking me, since I am definitely not attacking you. Lunging the horse is good advice, however she still has to get the horse out of the stall without being bit or run over...so if you disagree with me so much, why don't you tell her how to do it without cranking the stud chain, or using a DULL, NOT SHARP, NOT GOING TO PUNCTURE the horse object.


first off im not rude or attacking you, i just dont agree. i voicing my opinon as are you, you just seem to get angry when youre not agreed with. secondly i know what way the pitchfork is due to how i always hold one. i always hold one with the basket facing me when im not using them, also when they are set against the wall, the way you grab them forces them to be turned towards you. also if i can puncture a horse with a plastic pitchfork... how com you cant puncture one with a dull nail?????? also unless i missed it in her posts, how do you know she doesnt have the money to geld him now? and if the horse cant stand in the stall til hes gelded... well wait, what do you think he has been doing??? why do you think he got this way? 

everyone wants to blame the **** horse, and its not his fault. you cant expect him to be perfect or behaved even when all he does is stand in a stall....


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

In no way did I say it was the horse's fault. It is whoever owns the barn's fault for cooping him up. But even so, that tye of behaviour is still unacceptable. It is dangerous and someone is going to get hurt. Things can't always be fixed with rainbows and love. Stallions, especially youngsters, need firm handling. No matter what the situation is.


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

kassierae said:


> Yes, you do need to take into account his reasons for his behaviour. However, rearing, biting, striking and stud-like behaviour are unacceptable in my eyes.


of course... but... these are your factors

before he was stalled he was a well behaved calm horse.... no problems

he began breaking out of the paddock (probably due to hormones) and they couldnt keep him in

he was then stalled, no turnout, no exercise

then he began to get nasty, and as he was stalled longer it got worse

he is a yearling, his energy level is through the roof as it is, AND i never took into account what she was feeding him either.... if hes getting feed, especially sweet feed, this is only going to increase that energy

hes beginning to mature as he is nearing 2yrs old. now his testosterone is going to become more productive...

and you want to smack and MAKE the horse behave and blame him.... its NOT his fault.... why can no one understand that?

ETA: just read the post above. im not saying that he needs to be babied. but before you can make any progress anywhere he needs to get out this energy. no amount of handling at this point is going to be that much of a help if all hes going to do is stand in a stall all the time


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

You can't blame a horse for being what he is and the owner restricting what comes natural to him. I think we can agree to that. What needs to be solved is the way to handle him until the proper changes to his environment can be made and he is gelded; all of which needs to be done in very short order.


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## SmoothTrails (Oct 1, 2009)

I would say the best advice is get better fence and turn out. he is going to be unruly and dangerous otherwise. The OP said she was not comfortable lunging a yearling. Something needs to be done for excercise. Run him behind a golf cart, pony him with a gelding, run up and down the road with him, lunge him, just do something. Nothing else wil truly work until he has time to run off energy. 

At the moment he is set up for failure. It is like putting a two year old child in a romm all day sitting and not expecting them at some point to want to run and play. Its insane and just not possible for a baby. 

Everyone needs to calm down. From what I have read many replies on both sides have been rude. I am not calling anyone out but everyone needs to calm down and look at the situation. 

It doesn't matter how unacceptable the behavior is, as long as he has no release it will continue. He may become more aggressive if you try these corrections with no way to run adn just let off steam. You are making it more dangerous for yourself and your horse by not finding a way to excercise. Find metal panels, a wood fence with electric wire, something that can hold him and use it. Otherwise you are going to continue to have an unruly baby on your hands, and he will learn from this behavior to be this way throughout life.

I am sorry if I offend anyone. I am not trying to attack anyone, especially not the OP. I am just pointing out that the cause must first be fixed before you can expect a change in his behavior.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

My colt blew through the fence once, and it was my fault. He was the only colt among 6 other mares. The colt in the OP was probably not taught to respect his boundaries, or he has 'forgotten' that they need to be respected. And by the way, sweet feed does not always make horses hot. All mine are on sweet feeed and none of them are hot. Regardless of whether he was calm before, those behaviours are unacceptable, and if you think they are then you are quite simply misinformed. I do not tolerate pushiness in any horse, let alone a stud colt. And I guess my 61 year old grandmother who has been in the horse business for probably 35+ years, knows less than you do. The things I have said to do have worked and DO work. We have had plenty of stallions around, and I have worked with several at other places. The question in the OP was how to deal with it. And the stud chain is the easiest and most effective. And quite frankly, I don't care if a horse is stalled for months on end. I still expect that horse to be on its best possible behaviour when taken out. Period. Fidgeting is okay, prancing, trotting is okay. Biting, rearing, striking and aggression is not.


ETA: I am also not trying to attack anyone, just saying what has worked for us in the past and what will work for this guy if used correctly.


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## laceyf53 (Oct 21, 2007)

AlmagroN said:


> first off im not rude or attacking you, i just dont agree. i voicing my opinon as are you, you just seem to get angry when youre not agreed with. secondly i know what way the pitchfork is due to how i always hold one. i always hold one with the basket facing me when im not using them, also when they are set against the wall, the way you grab them forces them to be turned towards you. also if i can puncture a horse with a plastic pitchfork... how com you cant puncture one with a dull nail?????? also unless i missed it in her posts, how do you know she doesnt have the money to geld him now? and if the horse cant stand in the stall til hes gelded... well wait, what do you think he has been doing??? why do you think he got this way?
> 
> everyone wants to blame the **** horse, and its not his fault. you cant expect him to be perfect or behaved even when all he does is stand in a stall....


I don't know how I seem angry, because I'm not. I'm simply replying to you, just as you are to me. Your word choice and the way you use caps and quotes I think makes them come across as rude. I think everyone here knows that the horse is in an unfortunate situation, and that it's not his fault that he is in the situation. That is still no excuse for him to run over his handler; the situation needs to be fixed for both horse and handler so that it can be safe. If you could see the nail that I used, it was more like a bolt and had a completely flat end...in fact, I think what I used is called an "alan wrench", but I generally type fast and what comes out of my head goes on response. This whole conversation is getting to the point of ridiculousness. Accidents can happen with anything, anytime, and to anyone. You are obviously a sensitive individual, you care very deeply about the colt. However, it needs to be stopped, it is an animal, and a big one at that. We have to start with the behavior at hand, just because he has pent up energy doesn't mean he can bite and strike and not be stopped. I really wish you would just tell her how to do it using your methods, something she can do it in the mean time. My mention of money probably doesn't have anything to do with it, but it is January and I know that I don't have a dime....so I'm sorry I jumped to that conclusion.


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## SmoothTrails (Oct 1, 2009)

kassierae said:


> My colt blew through the fence once, and it was my fault. He was the only colt among 6 other mares. The colt in the OP was probably not taught to respect his boundaries, or he has 'forgotten' that they need to be respected. And by the way, sweet feed does not always make horses hot. All mine are on sweet feeed and none of them are hot. Regardless of whether he was calm before, those behaviours are unacceptable, and if you think they are then you are quite simply misinformed. I do not tolerate pushiness in any horse, let alone a stud colt. And I guess my 61 year old grandmother who has been in the horse business for probably 35+ years, knows less than you do. The things I have said to do have worked and DO work. We have had plenty of stallions around, and I have worked with several at other places. The question in the OP was how to deal with it. And the stud chain is the easiest and most effective. And quite frankly, I don't care if a horse is stalled for months on end. I still expect that horse to be on its best possible behaviour when taken out. Period. Fidgeting is okay, prancing, trotting is okay. Biting, rearing, striking and aggression is not.
> 
> 
> ETA: I am also not trying to attack anyone, just saying what has worked for us in the past and what will work for this guy if used correctly.


 
I understand what you mean, but he is a yearling with no turn out. I would use a stud chain and use it to excersice him in some manner. It is unrealistic to ask a yearling stud colt with no turn out to act in that manner without any turnout or excercise. I would not expect that level of understanding and training until the horse was at least two or three with constant handling and at least 30 minutes of excersice a day or an hour every other day. 

I think that your methods will work, I am just pointing out that the biggest concern other than safety should be getting him some excersice otherwise he will continue to act out because he is not getting proper time to let out such energy. 

This colt is set up for failure, and I am pointing out that the things which have caused this issue in the first place need to be addressed.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

I guess I just have really high standards on behaviour. Yes, a yearling stud colt will act out. But it's still unacceptable in my eyes. Chopper was never allowed to act like that, regardless of the situation. And neither were the two other yearling colts I worked with, Jiff and Charlie. They were halter babies, and god forbid it was too cold or too snowy outside they stayed in for weeks on end. They still had to behave to the best of their abilities.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

AlmagroN said:


> i agree, but there are methods that were brought up that i dont think are appropriate, especially with a yearling.
> 
> 
> stud chains go over the nose and up the side, or just over the nose, it depends on who i am using it on and what i am using it for. all horses tow with a stud chain (towing means we drive one horse and they are running at the side of the cart either held by the person who is driving or another person sitting on the side) in that case we use it over the nose and up the side at all times. this is not for correction per say so much as it is it does not allow them to pull hard on us because of the pressure on them when they do pull against the chain, they back off.
> ...



This stallion would have hurt you, and hurt you badly. As I said, I didn't have to do much but when I did, it was needed. He was a wonderful horse who just needed to know where the line was drawn in the sand. After the first week, I didn't need the stud chain at all.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

AlmagroN said:


> of course... but... these are your factors
> 
> before he was stalled he was a well behaved calm horse.... no problems
> 
> ...



No one is doubting that the turn out will HELP.....but it won't cure the fact that he knows he can scare the OP and this will lead to even worse behavior. Especially as he is only getting bigger and stronger.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

kassierae said:


> JDI is teh awesome.
> 
> I'm from FiSH.


D'awww!!! Thanks! Do you post under the same username? Sorry, I feel like my brains are mush today...


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

Yup yup!! I don't post often but I still do. I have the little black pony, Magic. The fuzzy one.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Oh right!! And Chopper!!


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

Yes. My handsome beast of a kid. Did you see the pics of his newest injury? I'll go put them on his page here. They're icky.

/end hijack.


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## 5cuetrain (Dec 11, 2009)

Seems that there are a couple of things that are pretty obvious.

1> The stud colt has only learned how not to behave which means that he is smart and knows how to get what he wants.
2> He has decided to excalate his behaviour to the point of being unsafe to get what he wants.
3> He is full of energy--probably need to take a look at what he is being fed--and for sure confining him in a stall is definately compounding the problem.

There is only one answer--proper training which includes proper diet, proper turn out etc. For sure the OP can't provide the total package. There is no other advice--get the colt to someone who can solve the problems.

Gelding him will not "fix" him--it will help but it is not the majic answer--nor is turn out, nor is diet. Its a combo pack and without the correct combination of all of the above he will only escalate his behaviour to become an extremely dangerous animal period.

Please be very careful--he can, and will, hurt you. Get some help as quick as you can. If you can't afford the help--sell him.


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## summer09 (Jan 3, 2010)

Lots of great advice, thank you to all who have contributed. He is outside today, running and loving being in pasture, with a raised voltage fence that has a new, higher strand that he can't jump. I'm calling the vet this afternoon to set up gelding. 
As for feed, he gets 6 flakes of hay for a 24 hour period. Plus at night he gets two cups total of- hay stretcher 70%, oats 25%, and corn 5%. I don't feed any sweet feed or molasasas products.
I have made a point to not back up from him, and have actually been getting him to stop and think about it when I make him back up, so I have a renewed confidence that this will work, after alot of hard work on my part, and good advice. My vet happens to be a trainer as well, so he's going to help me work. 
Thanks again everyone!


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## jesredneck98 (Dec 11, 2009)

Everyone is basically right. I have a 5 year old that started acting the same way as soon as I started boarding her inside for training. Because you don't have turnout for him I would reccomend not giving him grain or a low energy grain. Plus if you have the space and you only need alittle lunge him until he can't anymore. Get that energy out as best as you can and that


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