# Kodak's progress



## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

I more than "liked" this post. I LOVE it. I am so pleased for you. Makes my day!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

knightrider said:


> I more than "liked" this post. I LOVE it. I am so pleased for you. Makes my day!


Thanks Knightrider. I really appreciate it. I thought long and hard before posting about Kodak again, but I know there are some people in this forum who probably wondered what happened to her, and who wish us well. I thought you'd like to know that we are hanging in there, and making baby steps forward.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

I am so happy for you! I think you handled this the right way! So many riders are unable to remove their own emotions after an accident and always blame the horse. I applaud you for taking a step back and trying to work at this from an angle that improves you both!

What a happy wonderful post!


I for one am never a fan of "selling" the horse as an answer to a problem. Unless the horse is truly dangerous most issues can be worked through and horse and rider will be better off from the experience!

Absolutely Proud of you for sticking this out!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

carshon said:


> I am so happy for you! I think you handled this the right way! So many riders are unable to remove their own emotions after an accident and always blame the horse. I applaud you for taking a step back and trying to work at this from an angle that improves you both!
> 
> What a happy wonderful post!
> 
> ...


Thanks so much carshon. I really means a lot to have this support from you. 

The way I see it, me actually learning how to train a horse from the ground up so to speak, is the greatest gift Kodak could give me. It is making me a much more skilled horsewoman, and rider. I am able to generalize what I am learning to other situations that occur at my daughter's riding stable if horses are being difficult. It is quite a luxury for most people to go out and buy a fully finished horse without any idea of what went into creating that final product. And there is always the possibility that if you don't know what you're doing, you'll ruin a good horse. It was hard work, and I spent countless hours working with Kodak every week for the last four months or so. But I know find myself looking forward to each new step in the training because we are both learning so much! 

It was tempting to just give up on her, but I came to realize that perfect horses don't exist, and that each horse will have its issues. Best to try to work through them and learn something yourself so you are better equipped for the next one. It wasn't cheap, or easy, or a quick fix, but I think we are building a relationship that will last for as long as she is on this earth. Because it's safe to say she isn't going anywhere now! She still has a great deal to teach me after all


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

Ditto what others have said, and even moreso that you actively searched for something that could help you both. Kodak is a lovely horse and I know that someday she'll be exactly the horse you always wanted! Congratulations, and what a wonderful story!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Change said:


> Ditto what others have said, and even moreso that you actively searched for something that could help you both. Kodak is a lovely horse and I know that someday she'll be exactly the horse you always wanted! Congratulations, and what a wonderful story!


Thanks Change! Yes, I think (I hope) she will become a great trail horse. But I've also had to just get over the mental block of my fear of falling off her. I remember sitting around one evening telling my husband "You know what? She will spook again. I will probably fall again. But I'd rather fall again than give up on this." Luckily, he's very supportive even though he is not horsey at all. Kodak and I are certainly getting to know each other better all the time, and it is a two-way street. I kind of thought that horses just have to understand what we are telling them to do, and then comply. That's an oversimplification, but you know what I mean. We are taught that we have to use the right aids to get the horse to do what we want. The part that was missing is that I didn't take the time to understand what Kodak was trying to tell ME. Opening that line of communication doesn't mean that she gets her way. It just means that she feels she's being heard and doesn't have to scream. I acknowledge her opinions, then direct her to move on. 

Her personality is also beginning to come through more and more. The head tossing that I found scary in the saddle really just means "I'm excited, let's go!" She does one or two, then stops. I would not have realized this if I hadn't spent countless hours observing her at liberty. She's engaging with me in a way she wasn't before. And no matter what the outcome - even if she doesn't really become the quiet horse I thought I wanted, it is all worth it. Because I have a relationship with her that I didn't know was possible. I'll just have to sit out the spooks and shut her down, and maybe, in time, they will be less and less. In any case, it is a great adventure!


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

I don't know if I ever mentioned this, but my steady trail mare rarely spooks at anything. She's that horse I feel absolute confidence on when riding alongside a busy highway. When on a trail, if something scary pops up, she might plant her feet for a second, but then she presses on. Get caught in brambles? She'll stand fast and let me get us untangled. So - we're riding on a clear dirt road between a treeline and a cotton field when up ahead we see something. Is it a cat? What is that? She's got her ears forward and she's looking. I've gotten her signal, and I'm looking. Suddenly the thing darts into the tree line, which suddenly ends - and an entire chicken yard erupts in cackles and clucks. Cally did a 90 degree spin and took off in a dead bolt into the muddy cotton field. Took me 50 yards to get her stopped and she WOULD NOT go back. We ended up doing a perfect 50 yard arc back to the dirt road. LOL. She'll face down anything except horse-eating chickens. 

So yes - Kodak will spook again, and she may even bolt again. But here's the thing. You will hear her tell you when something is 'interesting' or 'scary' and you will feel her get ready to react. And you will sit whatever she does and help her get through it. I know you will.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Change said:


> I don't know if I ever mentioned this, but my steady trail mare rarely spooks at anything. She's that horse I feel absolute confidence on when riding alongside a busy highway. When on a trail, if something scary pops up, she might plant her feet for a second, but then she presses on. Get caught in brambles? She'll stand fast and let me get us untangled. So - we're riding on a clear dirt road between a treeline and a cotton field when up ahead we see something. Is it a cat? What is that? She's got her ears forward and she's looking. I've gotten her signal, and I'm looking. Suddenly the thing darts into the tree line, which suddenly ends - and an entire chicken yard erupts in cackles and clucks. Cally did a 90 degree spin and took off in a dead bolt into the muddy cotton field. Took me 50 yards to get her stopped and she WOULD NOT go back. We ended up doing a perfect 50 yard arc back to the dirt road. LOL. She'll face down anything except horse-eating chickens.
> 
> So yes - Kodak will spook again, and she may even bolt again. But here's the thing. You will hear her tell you when something is 'interesting' or 'scary' and you will feel her get ready to react. And you will sit whatever she does and help her get through it. I know you will.


Hahaha, that's hilarious! Chickens of all things... thanks for the laugh. It's good to hear that this is just normal horse behavior. My goal is eventually to start leaving things out on our short loop for her to see. Things that weren't there before. We saw a hare the other day, and she did a mini start at that, but not a full spook, so that was progress.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

What an exciting update to read! I am excited to follow along.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Acadianartist said:


> It is making me a much more skilled horsewoman, and rider. I am able to generalize what I am learning to other situations that occur at my daughter's riding stable if horses are being difficult....
> 
> It was tempting to just give up on her, but I came to realize that perfect horses don't exist, and that each horse will have its issues. Best to try to work through them and learn something yourself so you are better equipped for the next one. It wasn't cheap, or easy, or a quick fix, but I think we are building a relationship that will last for as long as she is on this earth. Because it's safe to say she isn't going anywhere now! She still has a great deal to teach me after all


Love this. A lot of people miss out on this kind of opportunity. I believe that getting to know her better and how to communicate with her will help you more and more as time goes on. 

Even though a fall is dangerous and scary, I've discovered that sometimes going through one gives our brain a rapidly accelerated course in preventing something like that from happening again. I wouldn't be surprised if the next time Kodak spooks you react in a different way and either catch her earlier or stay on better. 
You've also found new ways to acclimatize her to things that might have otherwise overfaced her. 
It sounds like perhaps you are the best thing that could have happened to her.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

egrogan said:


> What an exciting update to read! I am excited to follow along.


Beginning our leading exercises tonight! It will seem boring at first, but I've learned from doing the previous course that every step is important because they are building blocks for what happens next. 

This Leading module breaks it down into three different types of leading - from the lead position (several feet in front of the horse), from the partner position (shoulder to shoulder) and from the driving position. The idea is that sometimes situations will require different types of leading, like going through a gate, or self-loading in a trailer. 

I will try to report our progress regularly. But I feel I should give a disclaimer to any newbies reading this - if you are thinking of re-starting a horse should sign up for a course or work with a trainer. And while this course can be used to start a horse, I do not feel I would have the experience to do so. I chose to do it with Kodak because I know she's already trained, so these things are (or should be) a kind of review. And perhaps we will fill in a few gaps here and there. She is a very respectful horse on the ground so I feel it is safe to work with her. But this ideally should be done by a professional. Unfortunately, I do not have access to one, and in this case, I am not dealing with a dangerous horse, just a horse that needs to gain confidence. 

Hopefully I will report back soon with some successful leading exercises. Thanks for tagging along!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

gottatrot said:


> Love this. A lot of people miss out on this kind of opportunity. I believe that getting to know her better and how to communicate with her will help you more and more as time goes on.
> 
> Even though a fall is dangerous and scary, I've discovered that sometimes going through one gives our brain a rapidly accelerated course in preventing something like that from happening again. I wouldn't be surprised if the next time Kodak spooks you react in a different way and either catch her earlier or stay on better.
> You've also found new ways to acclimatize her to things that might have otherwise overfaced her.
> It sounds like perhaps you are the best thing that could have happened to her.


Or perhaps she is the best thing that ever happened to me...


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

I am really looking forward to keeping up with this journal. You are doing such good work.

I wanted to tell you about my heart horse Chorro. I got him as a yearling uncut stallion, and he was listed as temperament 7 in his ad. He was really spooky and crazy when he was too young to ride. When he got old enough to ride, he spooked HUGE. I measured one sideways jump at 8 feet. I came off of him 9 times while I was training him. He gave no warning at all when he was going to leap sideways. I loved him so much, having raised him from a yearling and also, he was the first, last, and only horse I ever got that didn't have serious issues, was extremely well bred, and had papers. He was a dream come true--to have a fancy schmanzy registered Paso Fino! I just kept riding him and taking him places and doing things with him. He was such a reactive jumpy horse that he would leap sideways when out grazing in the pasture--he wasn't misbehaving, he was just a very sensitive horse. On the plus side, a reactive horse listens closely to his rider and requires just a touch of rein, a movement of the heel.

Chorro is 13 now and hardly ever spooks. When he does, it is usually just a quick up and down jump. I know he still has the potential to do those huge sideways leaps, but as @gottatrot says, your body kind of adjusts so I haven't come off of him in a long time. He is just a terrifically wonderful horse. I am telling you this story to encourage you that it does get better, much better, with time and lots of riding.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Thank you @knightrider! I need all the encouragement I can get since our journey is still only beginning. But this makes me very hopeful! Chorro is beautiful! Great work with him.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Did a quick leading session with Kodak tonight. Luckily I have lights strung all the way around my paddock. Two days away from the shortest day of the year, and I often have to work in the evening due to other commitments (the type that allow me to put food on the table and hay in the barn), so it's nice to be able to work outside. We have a decent layer of snow, but so far the ice isn't a problem so we have the entire well-lit paddock to work in. The snow reflects the light nicely too so we can see perfectly well. 

As soon as I shut Harley in and took out Kodak's halter, she showed a lot of interest and eagerness to work. She used to be difficult to halter, to the point where the person who sold her to me just left her halter on all the time. But now she views the halter as a sign that we're going to do something fun together. She happily let me put it on even though she was free to walk out of her open stall door. 

I am just starting the leading module in the groundwork program, and tonight we just did some leading from the "leader" position. I am required to walk about 15 feet in front of her and teach her to follow at a distance. The instructor recommends frequent short sessions. I figured it would be easy, but Kodak prefers to walk at my shoulder so I had to keep telling her to stay out of my "bubble". I use a driving whip for this - slightly shorter than a lunge whip, but longer than a crop. Of course I don't touch her with it, but I can make noise if I need to send a message. She really wanted to stay closer to me, and honestly, I wanted her by my side too. One of the things I've learned through this program though, is that sending her away from me is not going to make her love me less. In fact, it's quite the opposite. The more I send her away, the more she wants to be with me. Think about it when you watch a herd of horses. The dominant horse can push other horses around, yet they are constantly wanting to be near that lead horse. After about 10 minutes, I stopped and invited her in to smell my hand and give her some neck and wither scratches and she was visibly relieved. I removed her halter and she followed me step by step back to the barn where I gave her a bit of hay. 

Not a very exciting session, but after just a few minutes of encouraging her to follow at a distance all over the paddock in both directions, and halting while asking her to halt 15 feet behind me, then to walk on while maintaining that distance, she caught on to what I wanted from her and stopped trying to walk at my shoulder. We will do this a few more times, then start to do it around cones and at varying speeds. In a week or so we will do leading from the "partner" position which she should like since it's her preferred position (shoulder to shoulder).


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

I love reading about your exercises and Kodak's reactions! And it is so neat to hear she actually looks forward to working with you. Keep writing!!

I had to teach my horses to tandem lead since so often I am working with them alone. Having two horses willing to follow in single file to move them from one yard to another, through 4' gates is a godsend! It's even better when I can just open a pair of gates and 'send' them across the driveway into another yard without leading.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Change said:


> I love reading about your exercises and Kodak's reactions! And it is so neat to hear she actually looks forward to working with you. Keep writing!!
> 
> I had to teach my horses to tandem lead since so often I am working with them alone. Having two horses willing to follow in single file to move them from one yard to another, through 4' gates is a godsend! It's even better when I can just open a pair of gates and 'send' them across the driveway into another yard without leading.


Thanks Change! I've been so busy getting ready for the holidays, it's been difficult to do much more than daily chores. Because I have horses and won't leave them for the holidays, my whole family is coming here, which is nice, but means I have to clean! 

Yes, the idea is to teach her to lead from different positions so I can ask her to follow behind me, at my side, or go in front. It all reinforces our relationship too, and helps her view me as her leader. And Kodak very much needs a leader. 

I will have a little more time after the 25th to work with her! And on the 28th, my trainer comes to work on the riding part. I am hopeful that 2018 will bring lots of great things for us. Hoping the same for all of you!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

So it's been a few days, but things have been so busy, it's been hard to do a lot with Kodak, and the weather has been bitterly cold. Also, with the holidays and all, I had to do some obligatory hosting. But I thought I would update this thread. 

Over the last few days, the cold has prevented us from doing much outdoors because of the severe cold (-30C or so every darn day). Some of you already know about this from my thread called "Winter woes", so I won't go into much detail, but I was looking for things I could do with Kodak inside. Clicker training was suggested by a few people, and I had already done a bit last summer, so I figured I'd teach her a new trick - a head-down cue to help me bridle her and halter her more easily. Within a day, she had it down AND after I introduced the open halter and clucked/rewarded for her putting her nose in it, she got that figured out too. This mare is so smart and so willing. She loves the clicker training. 3 short sessions of less than five minutes is all it took to teach her this, the horse that was impossible to halter before. Now I just reinforce it once in a while when I'm out doing chores, but she clearly gets it. 

Then, yesterday, since the weather was more tolerable (only -25C with the windchill, but sunny and not very windy) we got our first lesson with a new coach/trainer! This girl is the grown-up student of my daughter's jumping coach, and has started a few horses herself. She also rehabbed a badly emaciated mare who has a lot of the same anxieties as Kodak. So before the coach got here, I did a bit of clicker training (the head down and nose in the halter were great to bridle her more easily), then led her around so she could get a feel for the footing. We have a fair bit of snow, but my kind husband had cleared a track for me all the way around the paddock with a diagonal crossing the middle. So the coach got on Kodak first and rode her at the walk/trot. Kodak was a bit jerky, and at one point, shook her head a bit. The coach says she's definitely nervous, but is also testing the limits a little. She also noticed Kodak was very distracted and constantly looking around (she does that) rather than focusing on the rider. So she kept correcting her by just asking her to move her head and body in different directions to keep her engaged. Then I got on. It went really well I think. Kodak does tend to launch into her trot (she keeps wanting to canter when you ask her to trot - that was an issue we'd had before). 

The coach told me to just keep constant contact with her (I ride bitless) and every time she cranks her head over to look at something, to ask for her attention by getting her head centered again. Then we did lots of walk/trot transitions. By the end of the 45 minute lesson, I felt she was paying a lot more attention to me, and our transitions were getting much more fluid. This will be our under saddle homework until the next lesson. I realize this all sounds pretty basic. That's because it is. The coach is going to treat Kodak like she's a green horse despite her age (she's 12). And I'm an adult re-rider who needs to build confidence as well. As I told the coach, I can't handle too many more falls with Kodak at my age, so we need to set up for success. I felt the coach took the right approach, and was fairly laid back so we didn't feel pressured. My daughter's coach is an excellent competition coach, but she made me (and Kodak) very nervous. She tends to be very intense. I don't think I need that intensity, so hopefully this coach is going to help us develop a strong relationship. I think it will help for me to just know that I have the tools to help Kodak refocus instead of always looking for something to spook at. I realize you can't "cure" spooking, but if I'm more confident that I can ride it out or keep Kodak's mind focused on me, then maybe my confidence will be enough to keep us both safe and calm. 

And tonight, I did a quick ground work session with her. It was pretty cool, I just walked out in the middle of the paddock with the halter, driving whip and lunge line while she was eating in her stall with the door open to the paddock. When she saw me come out with those things, she followed me at liberty, curious about what we were going to do! I started with a bit of clicker training to get the halter on, then did some ground work. We are continuing to do the leading from a few feet in front. She continues to want to be by my side, but will back away when I ask her. So after a few walks around the paddock (the cold has returned so I kept it short), I gave her lots of praise and scratches, then took off the lead and we did some liberty leading, which we both really enjoy. I did some playful zig-zagging and she stayed with me everytime. She won't trot with me at liberty for some reason, but she'll walk fast or slow to keep pace with me, stop when I stop, and for every step back I take, she takes one too. It's pretty cute. Not something I ever taught her, it just happened. I should get it on video sometime.

The happiest moment in the last few days was after our ride with the coach. I was in the stall with Kodak after I had untacked her, and was just talking to the coach, hanging over the stall door. Kodak had her head right beside me, smelling my head, nuzzling me, looking for scratches on the cheek. The coach thought she was a pretty friendly horse. I wish she had seen her when I first got her and she was terrified of me, wouldn't even take a treat from my hand never mind putting her nose in a halter. 

So we continue to progress on clicker training, ground work and work under saddle, and even though some days I only have a few minutes or can't manage to get outside, we still do a little. It keeps her focused on me, thinking about things, and trying to figure out what I want from her. I have to say, it's a great feeling!


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## seabiscuit91 (Mar 30, 2017)

This is incredible to read!

So happy for you, and that you stuck through the rough patch with her!
You will both learn so much (already have!)
I love doing liberty training as well, and just having your horse be so curious about you, so rewarding!

Can't wait to read more!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

seabiscuit91 said:


> This is incredible to read!
> 
> So happy for you, and that you stuck through the rough patch with her!
> You will both learn so much (already have!)
> ...


Thanks for the support @SeaBiscuit - and for all the likes from everyone else! I know a lot of people thought, and perhaps still think, I must be some kind of crazy to do this when it would be so much easier to get a well broke horse and just sell Kodak. And for some people, that might indeed be the right thing to do. I don't want anyone to think it's not ok to sell a horse that is out of you comfort zone. 

But for us, the conditions were present for potential success. Kodak is not an aggresssive horse. The most dangerous thing she does is spook and bolt. She never rears or bucks, never bites or kicks. She is intelligent, and willing. In other words, she will make an amazing horse if she can become more confident. To do that, I also have to become more confident of course. 

Kodak is also a great horse to have in a barn. She is kind, never rude. She doesn't get in trouble, is a healthy, easy going horse that doesn't require any special care. She has no vices. And she and Harley are such good buddies.

I also tend to throw myself 150% into everything I do, so this is where all my spare time goes. I don't have a ton of spare time, but I do have a flexible schedule, so that helps. Because working with a horse like Kodak means spending a LOT of time with them. If I were boarding her an hour away and only seeing her a couple of times a week, I don't think this would be possible. And I could have sent her away for training, but I like to be involved, so it's better for me to work with her myself, or have the trainer come to our place (doing a bit of both right now). 

In the end, everyone has to make the right decision for themselves. I'm glad we decided to work with Kodak, but the conditions were right for us. Those who feel it's time to move on to a quieter horse should not feel bad about that.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Wonderful ride on Kodak today! For the first time in over a week, the wind died down and it wasn't quite so bitterly cold. Only -13C, with a windchill of -17C, but I really didn't feel it because it was such a light wind. My parents kindly offered to take my kids for a couple of days so I could get some work done. But I rode instead  Just kidding, I also got some work done, and will have all day tomorrow, and probably Friday to get lots of work done, since we have a major blizzard coming our way.

Kodak will occasionally shake her head, so I decided to try modifying my Dr. Cook bitless bridle to make it into a sidepull (see photos below) at the suggestion of my trimmer who also rides bitless and treeless. It worked! No difference in steering, and she definitely preferred this setup. I did order a flower hackamore before Xmas, but am still waiting for it to arrive, so in the meantime, we'll continue in this setup. I started with the head-down cue which I'm continuing to reinforce, but which she's volunteering now before I even ask. She still tends to want to pull her head back up when I try to straighten her ears and forelock, but is getting better. I led her around once, tightened the girth, and hopped on, and it went perfectly. I am riding in full contact now, and it's almost like she looks for it. If I don't take up contact, she feels a little lost, hesitant. It was only towards the end that I lengthened my reins a bit so she could do some long and low stretches. Afterward, I untacked her and we did a little liberty leading around the paddock just for fun, then I gave her some big scratches which she loved (she's been wearing a blanket more than usual lately because of this bitterly cold weather, and she really doesn't like it). 

We have also moved onto the partner position component of the leading module in our groundwork training program. I have to lead her from the shoulder now, and on both sides (not just left). She tends to want to have her head at my shoulder, so I have to use driving aids behind me with my other arm while I try to lead her forward. It's a bit awkward at first, but I think she's catching on. I find that if I talk to her in a happy voice, she gets more energetic and tends to move forward a bit more. She really loves learning new things, and being praised when she gets it. She's like a dog sometimes. 

So that's my update for tonight! Here are some pics. I rode alone, so no one to take pics, therefore all I got were selfies, but I think she's being pretty cute in them.

Arghhhh... photos won't upload again. Will try tomorrow.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Maybe just one?


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Trying for two...


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

And a gorgeous sunset to end it all!


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## PunchnMe (Jan 1, 2018)

Uaaaahhhhhhhh....... like so...


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Very nice!! So wonderful that you and Kodak are making such great progress. Both teachers and students! 

Nice to have a horse that enjoys being around you :loveshower:


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## PunchnMe (Jan 1, 2018)

AnitaAnne said:


> Very nice!! So wonderful that you and Kodak are making such great progress. Both teachers and students!
> 
> Nice to have a horse that enjoys being around you


Yes, very much so...


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

you like the KGB


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

Love Love Love this post! Wow - you are committed or should be committed because riding outside in the bitter cold is crazy!

What progress you have made. it is so exciting to read your posts. So glad you did not give up on her. And I think @Tazzie can appreciate the riding with contact part.


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

I think this is a fantastic journey - keep up the good work. So great that you are seeing results...and sometimes it is best to just go back to the beginning and take baby steps. 


You are a more committed person than I am for riding in that cold! Good on you!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

tinyliny said:


> you like the KGB


More like the THISISHOWIDON'TFREEZEMYFACEOFF crazy horse person! I could not live without my winter helmet cover. My daughter has a purple one, and even wears it for her indoor lessons (not a heated indoor). Makes a huge difference on those cheeks.

Thought I might sneak in a ride today because the temperature is staying fairly warm, but the blizzard just set in. Forecasting 45 cm with high winds. So I guess I'll stay in and do some work. If I have to. I guess.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

cbar said:


> I think this is a fantastic journey - keep up the good work. So great that you are seeing results...and sometimes it is best to just go back to the beginning and take baby steps.
> 
> 
> You are a more committed person than I am for riding in that cold! Good on you!


If I didn't ride in the minus teens, I wouldn't ride for 8 months of the year. Well, maybe 6. We take our riding days when we can get them. 

Yes, baby steps for both of us. Seems silly to some maybe, to be doing such basic things, but Kodak and I both need to work our confidence back up, and make sure that every step she takes is a confident one. I am learning a whole lot about her, and horse training in the meantime, so it's a wonderful learning experience for me, and I'm grateful Kodak is giving me this opportunity. I guess we both had holes in our training that needed to be fixed!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

carshon said:


> Love Love Love this post! Wow - you are committed or should be committed because riding outside in the bitter cold is crazy!
> 
> What progress you have made. it is so exciting to read your posts. So glad you did not give up on her. And I think @*Tazzie* can appreciate the riding with contact part.


Thanks @carshon. At first I thought she'd resent me being "in her face" because she was trained Western, so I assumed she'd prefer a loose rein. Don't get me wrong, I don't pull back, I just maintain constant contact. But in truth, I think she finds it reassuring. She seems a little lost when the reins are looser now. She needs direction, and it helps to keep her focused. She has not shown ANY inclination to spook for the last few rides, I think partly because I am keeping her mind engaged.


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## PunchnMe (Jan 1, 2018)

@Acadianartist I dont know if you wear skirts but if its usually super cold, my Mom found these awesome riding skirts that are amazing...


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

PunchnMe said:


> @*Acadianartist* I dont know if you wear skirts but if its usually super cold, my Mom found these awesome riding skirts that are amazing...


Yup, that's what I had on that day. Wraps around my waist with velcro around my legs. I kind of spread it behind me so it covers Kodak's rump a little. Great invention.


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## PunchnMe (Jan 1, 2018)

Acadianartist said:


> PunchnMe said:
> 
> 
> > @*Acadianartist* I dont know if you wear skirts but if its usually super cold, my Mom found these awesome riding skirts that are amazing...
> ...


It is! Not sure if we are talking about the same one though lol


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Yup, same thing.


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## PunchnMe (Jan 1, 2018)

@Acadianartist nice! They are warm and keep you from getting scratched which is so nice.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

PunchnMe said:


> @*Acadianartist* nice! They are warm and keep you from getting scratched which is so nice.


Yes, I like the fact that they stay on my legs without creating bulk. Not so good for a lesson though, since the coach has no idea where my legs are, lol! Maybe not such a bad thing! 

They really are quite warm and don't impede movement at all. They don't look nearly as nice on me as they do on those models, but since I ride alone in my yard, I really don't give a you-know-what how they look. At least I'm warm!


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## PunchnMe (Jan 1, 2018)

@Acadianartist Exactly! They are awesome lol.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

It's been a while since I've posted. After the blizzard, we got rain, and a lot of it. So the weather continues to make any kind of progress difficult. Since the last big rainfall event over a week ago, the paddock/riding arena has been like a skating rink. It snowed a bit, and I dragged it to try to get some of that snow to stick to the ice, but the horses are still very careful about walking on it, so I won't push it. They are pretty good at telling me when a surface is safe or not. Currently, they tend to stay in one small area of the paddock which I had sanded after it froze, so I decided I would at least do a bit of ground work with Kodak in that area. 

I also wanted to try out my new bitless bridle, just to see if it fits. I got a flower hackamore, which sits slightly higher on the face than a bit, so requires shorter cheekpieces. I cobbled together a bridle using a biothane headstall and it seemed to be about right. However, when I showed it to Kodak, she wanted nothing to do with it. To be fair, we hadn't done anything in nearly two weeks so I knew we might have to take a few steps back before resuming our ground work training. So as she stood there without any tack on in the middle of the paddock, I just worked on her head down and nose in the bridle cue. The head down was so good that I decided to grab some scissors and trim her bridle path while we were out there. Totally at liberty, I trimmed away as she kept her head down for me patiently at just the right height so I could see what I was doing but didn't have to lean over. This is real progress for Kodak since she hates having her poll or her ears touched. She even held her head right up against me and let me scratch her all over her face. If nothing else, it was really good bonding time with her.

Getting her to put her nose in the flower hackamore was more challenging than I thought, but I didn't want to force it. I just gave her time, reinforced her putting her nose in it even though initially, she would pull it right back out again. But she could have walked away from me, yet chose to stay there beside me, trying to figure out what I wanted. And after a few minutes, and a few more times of her putting her nose in the noseband, she let me pull the headstall over her head. I did the head down cue, which she gave me easily, and I was able to tuck her ears in easily. I rewarded her with a treat, then led her around the small area for a bit, just working on having her shoulder at my shoulder at all times. And that was it. Doesn't sound like I got much done, but with Kodak, every time you introduce something new, it's like this. Once she's accepted it, she's fine. So the next time I put the flower hackamore on her, hopefully I can ride in it! We'll see if that works better than the modified Dr. Cook.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

We have had more messy weather for the last month, preventing me from doing a lot of training with Kodak.

We did manage to get another ride in for a lesson, this time with the flower hackamore. It went well, though I discovered Kodak can show me a little attitude. Not a lot, but the odd head toss in protest when I make her work for a long time. We are working through it, and frankly, I see it as a good sign that she's coming out of her shell enough to have an opinion about things. 

We also managed to do a few quick training sessions. I have found that she quickly picks up where we left off, which is nice. She is definitely a quick learner, and loves our training sessions. 

But for the last two weeks or so, we haven't been able to do anything because of the terrible footing in the paddock/riding ring. It's a skating rink in some places. But every night, I go out and clean the manure. I putter around, give her some scratches, and we just hang out for a bit. 

But a very strange thing happened tonight. I was out with the horses this evening. As always, Kodak came looking for scratches (they are shedding, so especially itchy). I love our evening cuddles and scratches. I like to just linger there, and stand with her, often with my head against her lowered neck. But tonight, she raised her head, sniffed my hair, my cheek, breathed it all in, then stared me in the eye for what seemed like a long time. I mean, she put her eye about 2 inches away from my eyes and just stared into my eyes. So close I could see my reflection in her eye clearly. Not in an anxious way, just... almost curious. I have no idea what to make of it. It was certainly not threatening, or on high alert, just a very close encounter. And so unlike her former self - a spooky, aloof mare who didn't like people. Any animal behaviorists out there? Anyone experience this?


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Animals know, sense, and do a lot more than people give them credit for. I think she was showing, in her way, her extreme amount of trust and bond with you. Just spending time with them, bonding, and especially liberty like you have been, will develop a much deeper bond than just "groom, ride, put away".

It sounded very cool. Enjoy every moment. My mare and I had some incredible moments that I still cherish, especially doing liberty training. There were a few perfectly timed yet completely spontaneous rears. Those moments still fill me with awe and wonder though they happened several years ago.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

Agree that Kodak is trying to express her contentment and trust in you. What an awesome gift to have been given. Could it be that some of her anxiousness was from being passed around and that "well broke" horse is waiting to come out?

Your posts make me happy! I just think of all of the misunderstood horses out there that get passed around and labeled - when sometimes all it takes is time and patience. And we as owners/handlers can also learn from those experiences.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Thanks @HorseLuvr and @carshon. Yes, I think she is becoming more curious and "open" with me. I think she is an introvert (whereas Harley is very obviously an extrovert), and that it takes a long time for her to trust people. But as strange as it sounds, it felt like she was really "looking" at me. Also that it was a bit of a test to see if I would just stay there and let her inspect my face as much as she wants. 

You may be right @carshon, I do think getting passed around a few times over a few weeks just before I got her put her on edge. I also think she just really needed time. And because I rushed it, thinking she'd be like Harley, it resulted in some bad experiences which only made it worse. Setting us on a new path has definitely made a big difference. Having dealt with a few rescue dogs, I should have known that time and patience is always a necessary part of the process. 

This is certainly an amazing journey, with bumps on the road, but so many great joys as well!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Lovely ride on Kodak this morning! We did a lesson on Monday, and it was awesome, so I wanted to keep the momentum going. 

Monday we worked with the coach on going from a regular trot to a collected trot. To my utter delight (and, well, surprise to be honest), I was succeeding! She tends to have an uneven pace at the trot, mostly wanting to accelerate all the time. The coach had me do very subtle half halts, and slow her down with my abs, and by sitting deep rather than using reins. We did collected trot on the short sides of the arena, regular trot on long sides. Then we did circles at a collected trot. The difference from the beginning of the lesson to the end was dramatic, and I was thrilled! 

So we did more of the same this morning, trotting for about 45 minutes. I am sore! We both need to get in shape after a long winter of very bad riding conditions. Her topline is pretty well gone. 

One thing I noticed is that because she tends to have a fast trot, I was checking her with the reins as soon as she started to trot - EVERY TIME. She began anticipating this by throwing her head up in the air when she starts trotting (I am riding her bitless, but she still doesn't appreciate me yanking the reins). So I am now making a conscious effort of not pulling back right away when we start trotting, and instead, just slowing my posting, sitting deep, and "holding" her back with my abs. 

We also finished the leading portion of our ground work course, finally. This kept getting interrupted by icy conditions. She did wonderfully, and appears to enjoy these activities. We are beginning the "Touch exercises" component, which should mostly go well, except for places she doesn't like being touched, like her back legs. I think it's important we go through all of it though, to make sure there aren't more gaps in her training that show up. I'm pleased to say though, that I am now able to bridle her easily (she puts her nose in it), get her to put her head down so I can fix her forelock (head-down cue), and touch her face all over without her pulling away (in fact, she appears to enjoy it now!). 

Onward and upward! Spring is coming! Well, after we get the small matter of two Nor'easters bringing potentially significant snow accumulation out of the way...


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## Fimargue (Jun 19, 2015)

Awesome! So happy for you. 

A sensitive horse putting their nose to your face and smelling you in is highest gift they can give. I was so honored when Talila did that the first time. She was also a horse who didn't like being touched around the face. I now regularly take her nose in to my hands and kiss her and she moves her lips. She looks me straight in the eyes, relaxed. I love it.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Yes @Fimargue, it's really thrilling to me that she trusts me so much more now. In fact, she trusts everyone a lot more (hubby and DD have noticed too). She's come out of her shell more. I kissed her right above the eye after our ride today. There's NO way I could have even gotten CLOSE to her head like that before. But she had her head lowered, her eye half shut, and was totally relaxed. 

I do hope this will translate into safer trail rides, but I won't be able to venture out for some time because of the deep snow. Time will tell... but I am more hopeful than I was last fall. 

I even told my coach I'd like to try going over some cavalettis this summer. I can't believe I'm even considering it, but I've always wanted to jump, and figure at 47, if I don't do it now, I never will. What's a low cavaletti or two anyway?  

We are certainly starting to move as one now, and I feel her as an extension of my own body. I FEEL her movements in each gait and flow with them rather than fight them. And the best part is that even though I didn't ride a lot over the winter, our gradual progress appears to have been maintained. I thought we'd have to start over, but the coach kept asking me to do things I didn't know I could do, and we just did them! This coach is new to us btw, so has no idea what we've done before, and haven't done. Nothing she's asking us to do is that difficult, but like anyone, when I ride alone, I tend not to push myself. Now we're doing lateral work, collection, controlled movements, and I'm surprised we're able to do them all. So I want to practice, practice, practice all the time now! But don't worry, I won't overdo it, the weather and my work will make sure of that.

Still, I am beginning to understand the saying about wet saddle pads. I think lots of time in the saddle is really beneficial. Training sessions on the ground where she's learning new things are best kept short, but we need to do things over and over in the saddle so they become natural.


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

This is so exciting to read! It makes me happy and hopeful


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Haven't updated in a long time because there really wasn't anything new to report, however, all is going very well! Spring weather means a little more riding and we are continuing to progress with regular lessons. Kodak has had little outbursts while we ride, but nothing I couldn't handle, and working through them is helping us both feel more confident. I am continuing to do ground work with her. Lately, I've been really focusing on her face. She was very head shy, so I figured I should work on that a lot. I can now stick my fingers in her ears, up her nose, hold her eye open, lol. She thinks I'm pretty silly, but allows it. At first of course she would jerk away, but with a bit of clicker training and rewarding, she's totally ok with it. The only thing she didn't like was me touching her lips, so we did a lot of that. I also ran a nail along her neck and pricked her with it a little, simulating the feeling of a needle. 

Good thing too. She got all her shots and her teeth floated today! I have to say, I was pretty nervous about it. The vet was a new, a young vet. She'd been warned by our regular vet about Kodak though. Especially about the amount of sedation she needs. Last year, the vet kept having to give her more and more because she fights it so hard. This new vet said it was the most sedation she's ever given a horse, but even so, Kodak was still aware, and fighting a little. Even the vet got a little nervous, but I told her to just go slow, and made a huge effort to keep myself calm too. Other than a couple of half-hearted attempts to pull back and get her head out of the contraption, it went reasonably well with lots of patience. Luckily, the vet was on board with that, and took her time. She did say that it was clear that all the work I had been doing to desensitize her was paying off, so I was proud of my girl and myself!

Oh, and a young girl (15) who rides with my daughter's coach has started riding her! I offered to let her ride Kodak, since I don't have time to ride her as much as I'd like, and this girl has the right temperament. She's kind, and very quiet and patient. I told her all about Kodak's issues, and what she can and can't do (no tying solid). And her parents know about Kodak's spooking history. So far, it has been going really well! This girl is used to riding challenging horses, so she'll be good to continue to bring Kodak along. 

One last thing - the other day, I was working on the paddock fence, and Kodak laid down in the sand for a nap. So I walked over to her and sat down about 10 feet away, and just watched her sleep. Her ears flicked as I talked to her, but she drifted in and out of REM sleep. I couldn't believe she was comfortable enough to sleep beside me like that. I think she's finally trusting me. What an amazing feeling.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

Love these posts!!!!


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## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

Yay. Finally sitting down and BINGING. I must have missed this post as they cycle so fast on the right bar. Subbing at last! You had a spine tingling moment with Kodak yay! I can't believe how you have persevered. I think one of the first posts I read of yours was about getting a concussion.... the things we do >.< I have so much to learn from you.... I also just read your parenting thread and for the record I think you have a great approach. Kids given everything rarely appreciate what they have or dont, in some cases. I don't have kids but I often have to resist the "must give everything, the BEST, always" for my animals. And nope, I do not understand the wait on hand and foot with a brush approach haha but we are of the same mindset. A dirty horse is a happy horse is a happy owner! 

I may have missed it but does your daughter do liberty as well? And... pictures?


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Kalraii said:


> Yay. Finally sitting down and BINGING. I must have missed this post as they cycle so fast on the right bar. Subbing at last! You had a spine tingling moment with Kodak yay! I can't believe how you have persevered. I think one of the first posts I read of yours was about getting a concussion.... the things we do >.< I have so much to learn from you.... I also just read your parenting thread and for the record I think you have a great approach. Kids given everything rarely appreciate what they have or dont, in some cases. I don't have kids but I often have to resist the "must give everything, the BEST, always" for my animals. And nope, I do not understand the wait on hand and foot with a brush approach haha but we are of the same mindset. A dirty horse is a happy horse is a happy owner!
> 
> I may have missed it but does your daughter do liberty as well? And... pictures?


Haha... yes, it has been quite an adventure! From concussion to liberty work to figuring out the balance between being there for my daughter and letting her figure it out. What a ride. 

My daughter says she wants to do liberty with Harley because she can see how much Kodak has progressed. But she never asks to do it. I want her to experience what I did with Kodak, but it has to come from her. I can't force it. That is the hardest part. 

Pictures, yes... I almost never have a camera or even a phone on me. I tried to get hubby and DD to take pictures, but they generally suck. Will try to get some. 

And yes, the things we do... small victories to most. Maybe that's why I don't think of taking pictures. How do you captures the moment when a bicycle goes by your house with a kid on it, and your horse does NOT react? At all? And you're all like "holy crap" inside, but have to remain cool, like it was nothing. 

As soon as the paddock dries up enough, we will start lunging work, so perhaps I can get some videos. She was problematic on the lunge line before, but the online course I am taking has been so awesome at working through issues, I believe we can figure it out. And while it may seem to be unrelated to her issues under saddle, I think that sometimes, there are connections we can't see, and it's worth exploring anyway.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Feeling reflective tonight. I have been doing lessons on Kodak along with my daughter and Harley. Tonight, things finally dried up, but I have felt Kodak was off for a while. Our training continues to progress so well on the ground, but when I ride her, she doesn't seem comfortable. Come to think of it, she never has, though some rides were better than others. But tonight, she was clearly off on her front. The coach said she was probably just ouchy, and that her own horse needs shoes on the front legs or she gets ouchy too. I don't think that's it.

I've noticed for a couple of weeks that she appears sore somewhere in the front after hard riding (which, given her level of fitness at the moment, might only consist of 40 minutes or so of riding in our fairly deep sandy arena as it has not yet really packed down due to wet weather). I stopped the lesson and just led her around at the walk to cool her down as my daughter continued some canter work on Harley (who is also really out of shape, but not sore at least, and very game!). 

Tomorrow morning a new massage therapist is coming to go over both Harley and Kodak (my old one moved away), and Thursday the trimmer is coming. Kodak has lost big chunks of her frog. The trimmer says it's nothing to worry about, that some horses shed in small bit, others in big chunks so that might be it. She did have a tiny bit of thrush about a week ago, but really nothing too serious, however, her central sulci did get quite deep - as it tends to do every spring. I've been cleaning it and putting in No Thrush, and it's drying out finally. But it could be that. 

Or there could be something wrong with her spine. I find she has a weird curvature. It dips down at her mid-back, then up again just before the hair part in the hind leg, then dips down between the point of her butt, then sticks up again just before the tail. Like I can feel every vertebrae. Also, her neck is getting a bit ewe-shaped again. She was like that before, and my former massage therapist helped it round up, but it looks like we're back to where she was. 

I feel terrible even getting on her at the moment, and would frankly just do liberty work or ground work with her. Having read more about how riding horses is hard on their backs, I find myself questioning my motives. Does it really matter if I can count strides between poles? Do I have to have a solid two-point? Ok, that last one might be a good thing for me since I need all the balance I can get. 

She is getting so much better about spooking though! Last night, we rode briefly (not long enough for her to get sore) and a family walked by with two large dogs and a baby stroller. We live in the middle of nowhere, so this is not a sight we normally see. The dogs were not even on leashes, they were just running up and down the road. She was alert, head up, very interested, but I kept her mind on task and she was fine. Tonight, she had a mini-spook where she kind of took off at a bit of a canter, but I got her right back under control, and she didn't really spook, she just kind of gave a little burst because of the wind. 

I hope we can get her feeling better. Otherwise, I'd rather just not ride her. I've tried a gazillion saddles, and am just at the point where I'm considering going treeless or bareback, but I don't know if that will make a difference. I'd like to try bareback, but am a little terrified, to be honest. What if I go flying? I have nothing to keep me in place in case of a spook. 

She is clearly favoring a front leg. I feel it's the right one, but I'm terrible at seeing where the lameness is coming from. Either way, I will not get on her and make her feel worse. And the expression on her face when I get off her, and rub her face, neck, and back, tell me this is what makes her happy, whereas being ridden is either painful or stressful or both.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

The soreness could be the deep sulcus. I am not bashing your farrier - but wanted to comment because we fought and fought very very deep thrush on our mare. We know why it happened (mare has Navicular and tends to try and walk on her toes) our mares heels were contracted but we religiously clean feet nightly and treat for thrush when we see it. Her frog would also peel off in one large hung or leave dead frog at the heels and the front would peel off. Our farrier would always say the thrush does not look that bad. I then took a hoof trimming class and asked if I could bring this mare (we were looking for other alternatives to the wedge shoes she was in) and this farrier started digging and digging at her frog and under seemingly healthy tissue was a black gooey mass of horrible thrush. We could literally put our thumb in the hole that was left after the tissue was trimmed off. We had been treating the top but not the deep thrush. the mare was visibly more comfortable in a week or so - with steady soaking and an antibiotic cream we put in there. This mare still has some contraction in her heels and is prone to thrush - but we know it is not as bad as it was before.

Just wanted to put that out there because a deep sulcus can harbour thrush that you really cannot see well.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

could you post some video? of her moving without rider, and with you riding her? I know it's scary to put yourself out there, but it might elucidate things.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

tinyliny said:


> could you post some video? of her moving without rider, and with you riding her? I know it's scary to put yourself out there, but it might elucidate things.


Happy to post video, but I won't ride her until she's sore before we get to the bottom of it. I can post video of her without a rider. I noticed the limp again today in the paddock so I may be able to capture it.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

carshon said:


> The soreness could be the deep sulcus. I am not bashing your farrier - but wanted to comment because we fought and fought very very deep thrush on our mare. We know why it happened (mare has Navicular and tends to try and walk on her toes) our mares heels were contracted but we religiously clean feet nightly and treat for thrush when we see it. Her frog would also peel off in one large hung or leave dead frog at the heels and the front would peel off. Our farrier would always say the thrush does not look that bad. I then took a hoof trimming class and asked if I could bring this mare (we were looking for other alternatives to the wedge shoes she was in) and this farrier started digging and digging at her frog and under seemingly healthy tissue was a black gooey mass of horrible thrush. We could literally put our thumb in the hole that was left after the tissue was trimmed off. We had been treating the top but not the deep thrush. the mare was visibly more comfortable in a week or so - with steady soaking and an antibiotic cream we put in there. This mare still has some contraction in her heels and is prone to thrush - but we know it is not as bad as it was before.
> 
> Just wanted to put that out there because a deep sulcus can harbour thrush that you really cannot see well.


This is EXACTLY what I'm worried about. My regular trimmer, who is recovering from surgery right now, and is being replaced by her apprentice, organized a hoof dissection clinic at our vet lab which I eagerly signed up for. I saw some really godawful stuff. The horses are getting trimmed tomorrow (by the apprentice), so I'll see what she thinks. Neither horse is thrushy at the moment, but we just got over mud season so I don't know what's in there deep in the sulcus. Will ask whether I should try soaking.


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

Acadianartist said:


> This is EXACTLY what I'm worried about. My regular trimmer, who is recovering from surgery right now, and is being replaced by her apprentice, organized a hoof dissection clinic at our vet lab which I eagerly signed up for. I saw some really godawful stuff. The horses are getting trimmed tomorrow (by the apprentice), so I'll see what she thinks. Neither horse is thrushy at the moment, but we just got over mud season so I don't know what's in there deep in the sulcus. Will ask whether I should try soaking.


Normally if you have a deep sulcus you have thrush, I'd start treating.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

evilamc said:


> Normally if you have a deep sulcus you have thrush, I'd start treating.


Have been treating for thrush for at least two weeks. It never got really bad, but I try to stay on top of it. Zero signs of thrush now, her hoof has completely dried out. We went from snow, to floods to dry as the desert in a matter of a couple of weeks. Crazy. But I AM worried that as her frog dried, it contracted and closed over some thrush or something. 

Will keep you all posted.


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

Acadianartist said:


> Have been treating for thrush for at least two weeks. It never got really bad, but I try to stay on top of it. Zero signs of thrush now, her hoof has completely dried out. We went from snow, to floods to dry as the desert in a matter of a couple of weeks. Crazy. But I AM worried that as her frog dried, it contracted and closed over some thrush or something.
> 
> Will keep you all posted.


Its possible  Hopefully the farrier tomorrow is able to uncover any issue and you can continue treating!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Updating: the trimmer found what looks like an abscess in one of Kodak's back hooves. There is a roughly dime-sized area that she uncovered under the sole, which appears to be where an abscess blew out. She cleaned it all out. We agreed that what looked like front tenderness could in fact have been Kodak trying to stay off that back hoof. Hard to say. 

She cannot see anything in the central sulci, nor could she find any real sensitivity anywhere. 

So for now, I'll give her a few more days, and try again to see if the pain is gone. If not, I'll bring in the vet. I happened to be in the vet office today picking up ulcer meds for Harley and saw my vet so I mentioned it to her. She agrees with the idea of letting Kodak have a few days off, then seeing how things look, and will come out of necessary. 

Everyone is happy eating a few bites of grass now (they are still only getting about an hour a day of grazing and it's driving Harley crazy).


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

A few photos of me and Kodak during our lesson tonight! Please don't be too harsh. I know my position sucks. I know Kodak isn't collecting. We are honestly just happy to be improving from week to week, gaining confidence, and learning to deal with Kodak's "lookiness". I can now prevent a spook by anticipating it, and engaging her mind. I am also getting stronger in the saddle so I can be a better rider for her. I'm happy with how we are coming along under the circumstances!

I hadn't ridden her for just over a week after she was a bit sore. Tonight, she was fine, so whatever it was appears to have resolved itself to my relief. Now I can start building some muscle in the hind end and topline. 

Oh, and to give you an example of a small victory for us: she let me put on a fly bonnet! The flies are bad right now, but Kodak never tolerated a fly mask or a fly bonnet. I couldn't get near her ears, in fact. However, lately, we have been doing desensitization around the head. This includes touching her eyes, nose, lips, teeth, and inside her ears. At first she would pull back, but now she wants me to get in there and scratch those ears! So a few days ago, I started putting on her fly mask. I had to start slow by putting it on her neck, then on her ears, then eventually, over her eyes, closing it, and removing it again. The velcro used to terrify her, but there's no point in putting on a fly mask if I can't safely remove it! 

Anyway, here are some photos. The saddle still doesn't fit great, and we were working on two-point tonight. I can see now that my heels weren't pushed down as much as I thought they were, and my position wasn't what I thought it was, but oh well, it was still a good ride. Just more things to work on!


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Looking good momma! You have a good instructor, two point is a fabulous tool to improve your riding, but practice it at home without stirrups, hehe.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

waresbear said:


> Looking good momma! You have a good instructor, two point is a fabulous tool to improve your riding, but practice it at home without stirrups, hehe.


Haha, thanks... having done a lot of one-stirrup and no-stirrup posting, I can just imagine! However, I think I'll wait to really nail my seat and firm up those muscles before I do, just in case Kodak decides to throw in a big spook!


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Keep practicing, those spooks won't mean nothing after a while!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

How I feel when I'm in two-point...


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Still better than this...


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

She's moving out nice and starting to relax! Her balance will get better.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

gottatrot said:


> She's moving out nice and starting to relax! Her balance will get better.


I agree, she's looking a little more relaxed. My goal now is to build up some strength so I can get her to collect and round up a little more. I mean, she'll obviously never be a dressage prospect, but she can carry her head a little lower. 

Also looking forward to more trail riding! Things are still muddy and wet on the trails here, but we should be able to get out soon.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

agree with @gottatrot Kodak looks more relaxed. the rounding will come as her muscles develop. What a lovely horse and rider!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Another progress report: on the ground work front, we are continuing to do lots of things together, and Kodak is generally very good about it. We are in the "Yielding to physical aids" (ie, pressure) module and she's perfect at almost everything. We also started working around obstacles, including backing up over poles. That's fine, except when the pole is between jump standards (but on the ground, obviously). Then she gets nervous about having to back up between vertical standards. So I walk her through it, then walk through again, stopping when she has both front hooves just over it, then back up. Then we walk forward again, and do all fours. It's not perfect, but she's doing well, with almost no pressure. The idea is that I take her lead up and hold it pointing at her chest, and if she doesn't react, go to phase two, which is add a tiny bit of pressure, and add more progressively. We never get to phase 2 - she starts backing up immediately when I just hold the lead and point it to her chest. Her ground work has always been phenomenal. 

In the saddle, things are continuing to progress in lessons. I'm getting stronger and stronger, and no longer beg for mercy after 45 minutes of posting or two-point. We continue to work on my position, and have begun canter work. But she is also continuing to spook. Tonight was a particularly interesting ride. First, she was not happy that Harley was in the pasture (I often ride with my daughter and Harley but they weren't up for it tonight). Then, my husband got the tractor out of the equipment bay to seed the back pasture. And if you're tempted to be sympathetic towards Kodak for shying away from a tractor, don't. It wasn't even the tractor that was scaring her. Here is a list of what scared her tonight:

- my husband walking out of the equipment bay carrying a red scoop (OMG!)
- a piece of wood that has always been in the exact same spot (SNAKE!)
- a pole on the side of the ring (BIG SNAKE!)
- a clump of hay I had thrown outside the paddock fence (LION!)
- Harley (WHAT IS HE LOOKING AT?)
- the memory of my husband walking out of the equipment bay (she shied away in the exact same spot where she had seen him appear out of nowhere)
- the guy on the radio I had on who suddenly started talking between songs (STRANGE VOICE!)
- ghosts apparently... because I didn't even see what she was reacting to some of the time

Among Kodak's signature moves are 

- the "drop": where her whole body drops a foot and I'm suspended temporarily in the air
- the "sidesweep": wherein she runs laterally
- the "butt drop": in which she runs forward to get away from a horse-eating leaf, but with her butt dropped about two feet lower than her withers
- the bolt (self-explanatory)
- the spin (usually combined with the bolt)

And for extra fun, she likes to combine those moves. 

The only good thing is that I stayed on, and kept her moving at all times, making sure to remind her to get her mind back on me, and getting her back on path whenever she veered off, then going back to that spot until she passed it without a reaction. Finally, after about 45 minutes of this, she gave me about 3-4 perfect figure 8s in a controlled trots without any spooks, and she finally began to relax. I'll take it! I praised her, and we walked a bit to cool down and relax on a loose rein.

There are days I love this horse to pieces. And there are days I wonder why I keep doing this to myself. But if nothing else, she will make riding sane horses seem like a walk in the park.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

I think you must be making excellent progress because this is the first time I recall you laughing about Kodak’s spooks :grin:

Glad things are going so well!


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

egrogan said:


> I think you must be making excellent progress because this is the first time I recall you laughing about Kodak’s spooks :grin:


Yes! She is so much like my mare, Amore. She actually spooks when things are gone that were there before, like if you take a water bucket out of a field. How can the absence of something seem dangerous? Maybe it got eaten by a predator?
I always entertain myself by making up stories about what she thinks things are, like you. :smile:


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

gottatrot said:


> Yes! She is so much like my mare, Amore. She actually spooks when things are gone that were there before, like if you take a water bucket out of a field. How can the absence of something seem dangerous? Maybe it got eaten by a predator?
> I always entertain myself by making up stories about what she thinks things are, like you. :smile:


I have started reading your journal @gottatrot, and thought exactly the same thing about Amore and Kodak being so similar! I guess some horses make you work hard for your right to call yourself a rider. I feel like Kodak is giving me a crash course. No pun intended, LOL. 

I really do get a lot of reassurance when I read threads by others who have dealt with spooky horses. It helps me keep things in perspective, and I feel less alone. 

I'm actually glad I rode her last night, even though I had a feeling she was going to be spooky. We're getting a bit of a cold spell here too, so it's like those crisp fall days when your horse is extra alert. But it's important to me that I can ride her through these bad days, and push through it when she is spooking. I can't say it was a relaxing ride, but I felt a sense of accomplishment afterwards since we did end on a positive note. I almost gave up a couple of times through the ride, and actually did dismount briefly while my husband was putting the tractor back in the equipment bay (it's worse if there is noise that she can't see or identify), but got back on and finished our ride properly. 

I think I'm ready for my ride in Rome now! Leaving on Saturday, arriving in Rome Sunday morning, and I ride on Monday.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

egrogan said:


> I think you must be making excellent progress because this is the first time I recall you laughing about Kodak’s spooks :grin:
> 
> Glad things are going so well!


Haha... that's one way to look at it! But you're right, I've become a little less worried about her spooking, and try to laugh it off now.


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

Acadianartist said:


> A
> 
> Among Kodak's signature moves are
> 
> ...



I must catch you now to ask this question, before staying on just become instinct and muscle memory and you don't think about it any more.


What did you change about your riding that allows you to stay on better when she does something unexpected? IE how the heck do you not fall off?


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## Dragoon (Nov 25, 2013)

I'm not Acadian, but I am someone who is learning to ride on a spooky horse. I fell off a LOT. It averaged once a month, sometimes more. It got so that I was expecting it when the calendar changed...and I'd relax after, because I had gotten my fall "for the month" over with. Not sure if this helped. 
I developed better reflexes, yes. And those reflexes changed from a panicked death squeeze of the horse, to a 'stay centered and think CALM'. I now immediately say whoooaaaa when they spook...and the spooks aren't big spooks anymore. It helps that my gelding now has some history with me. Nothing bad has happened to him yet. So his spooks get smaller all the time. 
I have not fallen off him in a year and a half now...

It also helps that the more I know horses, the more I can identify things that may make them spook. I look around more, and am more ready. They spook at weird things, but it makes sense to them. I am getting it now. When the wind made the dust in the outdoor swirl up into a cone, I just knew he was going to jump sideways if it blew towards us. It did, he did, and I stayed on. Murmured whoaaa, and we went around... 

Now I just have to learn to ride bucks. The green haflinger has bucked me off three times (no fault of his, he was frightened) and the green OTTB has a problem, but I don't know what it is at this point...Good thing she's cute.
So...still falling...my chiropractor loves me...


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

newtrailriders said:


> I must catch you now to ask this question, before staying on just become instinct and muscle memory and you don't think about it any more.
> 
> 
> What did you change about your riding that allows you to stay on better when she does something unexpected? IE how the heck do you not fall off?


I wish I could tell you. I think it's a combination of Kodak's spooks becoming slightly less violent, if not less frequent, and my seat getting better. One thing I try to be very mindful of is my leg position. One of my instructors recommended I really drape my legs around Kodak, like I'm giving her a hug with my legs, but without pressure. My legs aren't flopping around, they are holding her gently. I sometimes forget, but I keep trying to stretch those legs down whenever I think of it. But I do think I now have a bit more muscle memory, and, well, muscle, period. 

Another thing I have started doing - and it is becoming more and more automatic - is riding from my core so maybe that is helping. It's the only way I can describe it. Everything comes from my core, much like when you root yourself in yoga, feeling your lower body rooted to the ground, and your upper body elongated toward the sky (eyes up!), with your stomach holding it all together. Half-halts come from my core, not my hands, and it's more of a blocking/sitting back movement than a pulling back movements. I am constantly half-halting Kodak when I trot (and I mean constantly half-halt, release, half-halt, release, like every two seconds) because she always wants to speed up. My posting comes from my core. Basically, those muscles don't get released until we're done and are cooling down. But don't forget to breathe! Literally, sometimes I catch myself holding my breath, so I make sure I keep breathing, which comes from my core as well. I feel it afterwards. 

And finally, I think there is a mental game which is harder to describe. It's a leap of faith. I just try to really feel like I'm one with Kodak, feeling all her movements, and moving along with them instead of fighting her. And yet as I feel those movements, I can also slow them down a bit by slowing my own movements. In my mind, I am staying with her, moving with her, even when she does something unexpected, and then guiding her back to where she should be. Like I said, it's a leap of faith. And why I think kids can stay on far more easily than adults - they don't think they'll fall off, or just don't worry about it if they do. And why some very lucky beginners can just hop on a horse and gallop, and not fall off. It doesn't occur to them that they might fall, so they don't. 

That said, falling off is not completely off the table! I'm sure it will happen again.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Dragoon said:


> Now I just have to learn to ride bucks. The green haflinger has bucked me off three times (no fault of his, he was frightened) and the green OTTB has a problem, but I don't know what it is at this point...Good thing she's cute.
> So...still falling...my chiropractor loves me...


Yikes... you're braver than I am.


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## Dragoon (Nov 25, 2013)

To quote Ned Stark, the only time you can be brave, is when you're afraid.

I've lost my nerve several times now. And it has slowly come back each time. So now, I don't beat myself up and feel ashamed over it. I tell myself its natural, and that it will pass. Reading lots of stories here on HF has certainly helped! 

What helps is time in the saddle. I go back to doing simple things that don't lead to bucking, then gradually push myself only when I'm ready. I feel like a big chicken some days, but then I look at how many people don't ride at all...they have every excuse under the sun why they aren't riding, from the weather to not having the right saddle. Or its the horses' fault. "I think he's got a sore leg. I think he's got a bit of thrush in one hoof." Or the classic "I think he needs more training." They are really offended if you suggest they need some help getting their confidence back. Once you admit the problem, you are on your way to solving it. 

Just ride. Its good for people and good for the horse. Falling off is always possible, yes. But less likely the more time you spend up there, IMO.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

@Dragoon yes, I agree to some extent. Though I think that with some horses, no matter how much you ride, they will never be 100% (I was riding every day last summer, but Kodak still ended up giving me a concussion). And as my daughter's coach likes to say, "Practice doesn't make perfect, PERFECT practice makes perfect." In other words, if you're doing it wrong, you're not going to improve as well as if you are working with someone who can help you do it right. 

Currently, I am riding a couple of times a week without a coach, and doing a lesson a week with a coach. Soon, school will be out, and my daughter and I will start riding every morning again. 

Some people just don't have that luxury though, and that doesn't mean they can never become good riders. For them, having a good, sane, quiet horse is even more important. 

But yes, overall, I do agree that hours in the saddle should lead to a more confident rider, but I wouldn't be the rider that I am without an instructor teaching me to do it better.


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## Fimargue (Jun 19, 2015)

Someday you will just find a way of being in control and reading her perfectly and the incidents eventually disappear. I speak from experience. You have already done such a good job with her.

But yes, your daughter's coach is right - and a good salesperson.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Fimargue said:


> Someday you will just find a way of being in control and reading her perfectly and the incidents eventually disappear. I speak from experience. You have already done such a good job with her.


I do hope you're right. But I'm prepared to accept Kodak for who she is. And I'm grateful that she has already taught me so much. 



Fimargue said:


> But yes, your daughter's coach is right - and a good salesperson.


Hahaha... yes, good point.  But honestly, after working with 6 other instructors, we have found that my daughter only really started progressing when we found this one. I have referred a couple of friends who had taken a few months of lessons at a different barn. After just two lessons with this coach, my friends told me they had learned more than in the months of lessons taken previously. She is intense, but boy, do you ever learn with her!


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## Dragoon (Nov 25, 2013)

I agree with you 100% Acadian! I admire all you've done with your horses and how you've strived to be a horse trainer as well as rider. 

Don't mind my mini-rant. It had nothing to do with you, just frustration at how many times I've had to give pep talks to people who clearly had confidence issues. It wasn't the horses. Just getting on was the insurmountable problem. Oh well, I suppose just being brushed is a good life for a horse...to a horse...

Myself, I worry every day about what kind of future these animals have. Bay OTTBs that aren't very rideable are a dime a dozen....Any horse that isn't very rideable is only one home away from the auction.

That's so awesome you found a good trainer! I hope I can find one this fall when I have the funds. Happy trails!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Well, tonight's lesson was tough. I'm feeling a little discouraged at the moment, I have to admit. Kodak wasn't as spooky, but she was all over the place. I felt good about it until we did some cantering, and then everything fell apart. We did lots of trotting, two-point and posting over poles, in serpentines. I was switching my diagonals every time, managing to push Kodak out to use all of the space (she wants to cut in), and felt like I was in control. Then the coach asked me to canter her on the long side over some poles. When I ask for the canter, she launches into a gallop, and this time, was really all over the place. Her head went down a couple of times like she was thinking of bucking, but I got her back up. She was crooked the whole time, kept throwing her head. It wasn't pretty. I find she does better in a circle, and I have had her cantering circles very nicely before so I know we can do it. But tonight wasn't our night.

After doing canters on the long side about 3 or 4 times (the last time was half decent), she got the idea that we were going to speed up every time we turned that corner, only it was a really fast trot instead of a canter. And I wasn't asking for it, she was just taking off on me. So the coach could see things were falling apart, and got me to do a bunch of half-halts, then even some walking right when she would get really antsy to speed up. We got things back under control, but I am beat. Physically and mentally. It was a hard lesson. 

I just wanted to put it out there. Some days are diamonds, some are rocks. I am a lot more anxious right now too, so maybe that's not helping. I'm leaving for a work trip to Italy on Saturday, and I'm really stressed about it. I hate traveling. Used to love it, but now I just worry the whole time I'm gone. 

The coach says cantering smoothly will come, and that I just need to keep doing it. I have to try to remind myself of the fact that we've come a long way. But having cantered a dozen or so other horses, including Harley, I've honestly never had a problem with it until now. It's so frustrating. Is it me, or is it Kodak? Both of us maybe? 

I just need to know that if I just keep at this, it will get better.


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## Dragoon (Nov 25, 2013)

Just stop and think for a minute of something Kodak used to do, that seemed a huge problem a year ago. It went away, didn't it?
Now think for a minute of how many things have gone that way...I'm sure there are lots! 
Humans really are impatient. 
And we always forget about amazing changes because they were gradual. We only focus on the current problem, and worry that the horse will always be that way. 

I thought of this yesterday leading the haflinger into the barn on a loose lead. It used to be a struggle to get him in the barn. He would stop at the door every time and raise a huge fuss about going in. In fact, it used to be a huge battle leading him anywhere. If he couldn't charge past you, ripping the lead out of your hands, he was intent on knocking you down or striking out with his front feet. 

Kodak is a dear! 
Remember that horses are lazy creatures. She figured out you wanted speed going down the long side, and was knocking herself out trying to please you! My gelding does this. Picks up on patterns and tries to anticipate what I want. Horses are generous spirits sometimes. They'd so much rather laze and eat grass...


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Dragoon said:


> Kodak is a dear!
> Remember that horses are lazy creatures. She figured out you wanted speed going down the long side, and was knocking herself out trying to please you! My gelding does this. Picks up on patterns and tries to anticipate what I want. Horses are generous spirits sometimes. They'd so much rather laze and eat grass...


You've hit the nail on the head. Kodak tries her big thumping heart out for me. In fact, she tries so hard, she gets all stressed out and anxious about it. And I don't know how to bring her back down. I know how to do it from the ground, but I haven't yet figured it all out under saddle. I mean, it helps when I praise her, pat her, or even hum to her when she gets worked up, but I find it difficult to do that when I'm in the middle of a half-bucking, rodeo-twist of a leaping canter. 

Anyway, yes, you're right. We've come a long way - both of us. I just keep telling myself that at this rate, a year from now cantering will be just as easy as trotting. 

Thanks for the pep talk!


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

@Acadianartist I too believe Kodak is trying to "help" you and is anticipating what she "thinks" you are going to ask for. My husband is struggling with this in his lessons now. His mare has started to anticipate what she thinks he is going to ask her to do - and then the trainer sees this and tells him to do something else. Totally throwing Belle off - and no matter what the cue she does what she "thought" he wanted her to do. This has really manifested itself when they have been working on turn on the forehand and turn on the haunches. to the point that when he tried to cue her for something that is now what she thought they were going to do she has started running backward and spinning - my husband is not a super confident rider - he is trying to stick with it but the acrobatics have left him deflated. The trainer has gotten on Belle the last couple of lessons to reinforce that she HAS to follow cues and can't anticipate. This has left us with a horse that chomps on the bit and grinds her teeth because she is so anxious - we are working through this and they have gone back to things they do really well (half passes at the gait and some pole work) to help Belle and hubby gain confidence again.

As you said some days are diamonds some days are rocks! Hubby has a lesson today after a couple weeks off - we have been on a couple of trail rides since his last lesson and Belle seemed much more relaxed. Arena work stresses her out - she never had to do it before she came here so the trail rides help relax her.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

carshon said:


> As you said some days are diamonds some days are rocks! Hubby has a lesson today after a couple weeks off - we have been on a couple of trail rides since his last lesson and Belle seemed much more relaxed. Arena work stresses her out - she never had to do it before she came here so the trail rides help relax her.


Good to know I'm not alone! And I have been thinking that we should do more trail riding. I have been hesitant because of the spooking, and last summer's concussion on the trail... but we did one last weekend after my daughter was getting really frustrated with Harley. I suggested we should just stop doing drills over and over and do a little trail - and it was fantastic! My daughter really enjoyed it, and both horses were perfect. Even Harley was nice and quiet, and he always jigs on trails! So I think it's a stress release for everyone, and I will try to incorporate more of them.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

@Acadianartist we just got back from hubbies lesson and it was his best lesson in months! I really think the trail riding helped Belle reset. They even cantered (only her second time ever cantering in an arena)


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## boatagor (Jun 27, 2017)

I'm very interested in the training you've been doing with your mare. I bought a gelding last year who I absolutely adore, but he has a bolting/spooking issue and it's getting worse. I've been reading up on confidence building exercises that we can do and I planned to start this weekend. My boy is so friendly and easy to work with, the vet was amazed today that she was able to float his teeth with no issues and no sedation. He's gentle and has great manners. But when we ride out alone he is terrified of everything he sees. Last weekend a giant bird flew out of the woods beside us and he about lost it. I got him calmed down and the bird landed down beside us again. He took off and it was very hard to get him to come down from a gallop, and we were several miles from home. The whole way back he was vibrating with energy and ended up bolting a second time, right around a blind turn (we mostly ride on gravel roads). I don't really have anywhere "safe" to ride him except in the pasture, which is hilly and has some large rocks. I'm not afraid to ride him (yet) but I know this behavior is very dangerous and has to be fixed before we get hurt. Reading your story has definitely given me hope that we can get this under control, but I'm just not sure where to start!

ETA: The start I had planned was a confidence building exercise where you lead the horse toward an object that scares him, stopping and reassuring every few feet and rewarding for a calm stop and staying still. Then when you are close enough the horse should be comfortable enough to reach out and touch the object with his nose, then his reward is getting to slowly back up and turn away from the scary object.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

boatagor said:


> I'm very interested in the training you've been doing with your mare. I bought a gelding last year who I absolutely adore, but he has a bolting/spooking issue and it's getting worse. I've been reading up on confidence building exercises that we can do and I planned to start this weekend. My boy is so friendly and easy to work with, the vet was amazed today that she was able to float his teeth with no issues and no sedation. He's gentle and has great manners. But when we ride out alone he is terrified of everything he sees. Last weekend a giant bird flew out of the woods beside us and he about lost it. I got him calmed down and the bird landed down beside us again. He took off and it was very hard to get him to come down from a gallop, and we were several miles from home. The whole way back he was vibrating with energy and ended up bolting a second time, right around a blind turn (we mostly ride on gravel roads). I don't really have anywhere "safe" to ride him except in the pasture, which is hilly and has some large rocks. I'm not afraid to ride him (yet) but I know this behavior is very dangerous and has to be fixed before we get hurt. Reading your story has definitely given me hope that we can get this under control, but I'm just not sure where to start!
> 
> ETA: The start I had planned was a confidence building exercise where you lead the horse toward an object that scares him, stopping and reassuring every few feet and rewarding for a calm stop and staying still. Then when you are close enough the horse should be comfortable enough to reach out and touch the object with his nose, then his reward is getting to slowly back up and turn away from the scary object.



I'm no trainer, but to me, the issue with what you're describing is that you want to desensitize to specific objects. But you can never desensitize to everything and horses don't generalize very well. To use an easy example, you can desensitize a horse to a tarp, but one day, it's windy or raining and the tarp feels/looks completely new to the horse so he spooks. Why else would a horse spook at a large rock on a trail? It's not like he's never seen a rock before.


I would start with something even more basic. You say he's good to handle on the ground so I would start there. This is confidence building for the horse - ask him to perform an easy task and then either give a reward or praise him. Say he leads very well (my mare did), so start there. Then each time, add something to the exercise. With my mare, I would stop and see if she would stop. I would take a step back, and if she didn't take a step back with me, I would gently touch her chest until she did. Then you can do this at liberty (if you don't have a space to do this where there is no grass, you may want to use treats). You can teach your horse all kinds of things, like a head down cue, touching its flanks with its nose, pivoting on the shoulder or haunches.


The goal at first is not to desensitize but to teach the horse how to learn. If you do it right (short, easy steps, positive reinforcement only), your horse will start to look to you for guidance. My mare knows when we are going to train, and she loves it. She knows I'm going to ask her to learn something and I can see her trying to get it right. Then, you can start desensitizing, because the horse has learned to look to you for clues as to how he should react. So instead of teaching a horse that it doesn't have to be afraid of a large bird landing next to it, you're teaching him that you are a leader, and that if he's unsure, he should look to you for guidance in ANY situation. 



When my mare acts like she wants to spook now, I ask her to do something easy to get her mind off it. It's not a punishment, but rather a redirection of nervous energy to a calmer state of mind. And she feels confident again, because she was able to respond to my request.


Good luck, and please share your experiences with this sweet horse!


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

Both of my horses spook periodically at stuff that they see all of the time. Spook (huge jump sideways) and "oh, it's only a leaf blowing on the branch" and move on.

You can't really desensitize for every little thing. You are going to get a spook every once in a while even from the best of the best.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Awesome lesson on Kodak last night! We did lots of cantering, and I finally felt in control! It wasn't always pretty, and transitions weren't always fluid, but we were doing it! I do feel like the fact that I did a 7 hour trail ride in Rome, where I did everything from galloping to riding through heavy traffic and on a crowded beach, was a breakthrough moment for me as a rider. I had no idea whether I was going to be able to do it, or whether I would be so sore that I would regret signing up for it, but felt it was an opportunity of a lifetime, and didn't want to pass it up out of fear. Turned out the ride was fine. It was just me and the guide, so it was more like a couple of friends going out for the day than a touristy trail ride. I only started to get sore during the last hour or so, and I just dropped my stirrups a few times to let my leg relax. No saddle sores, was able to function the next day with just normal muscle soreness in my legs (mostly thighs). AND, I managed everything. The galloping was perfectly fine, I didn't stress about traffic because I knew the horses were used to it, was able to push my horse through some "opinionated" moments. We rode by a stallion that got my guide's horse all worked up and refusing to go forward for a bit, not to mention wolves in a cage (we were in a wildlife preserve that is privately owned and the landlord likes to keep a variety of exotic animals on site). But my horse was quite solid, but also very willing, so I was never nervous. 

Last night was the first ride on Kodak since I got back, and I felt no fear when I asked her to canter. Not even a little anxiety. She wasn't spooky at all either, surprisingly because it was a windy day and the weather is very volatile (we had a major rain/wind storm after the lesson). Once, she sort of side-stepped like she was going to spook so I corrected her immediately, and pushed her back in line. 

The coach was also very pleased with our progress. I know there will still be difficult rides, but it felt so good to finally be able to ride her effectively and without fear!


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

Awesome update! Confidence is such a key to riding! So glad you had a "break through" on your trip and it transferred over to a great ride at home.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Lovely ride this morning with my daughter and Harley! We did a few exercises in the arena, they jumped a little, and then we headed out for a short trail ride. Perfect weather, almost no bugs, and no wind, so both horses were totally chill. I was even comfortable enough on Kodak to turn around and take pictures of my daughter and Harley behind us! Kodak is really relaxed with me these days - I don't know why, but I sure am loving it! She was awesome all the way from the arena to the trail. Completely relaxed, but willing and happy to be going somewhere -- a perfect ride. Makes my heart happy.


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## Werecat (Aug 23, 2015)

So happy for you that she's doing so well! And your daughter is growing so fast! They look great together!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Werecat said:


> So happy for you that she's doing so well! And your daughter is growing so fast! They look great together!


Yes, sadly, I feel she's starting to outgrow Harley. She won't hear of getting another horse though, and will keep riding him for a while. It's not like we'd sell Harley - he will die here! But if she gets much taller, she will start to look funny on him. Maybe she's done growing though. She's about 5'1 or 5'2 (I'm only 5 ft), and he's 14.2. 

They haven't done any shows yet this summer because of other activities, and because I've been away, but they'll compete in 3-5 shows and hopefully do really well! She rides him so well now, they've truly become a team. I'm a proud mama!


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

There is hope for them. My daughter is 5'10" and rides a 14.2H Fox Trotter. Our mare is broader than Harley but he has a nice barrel and room for more leg.

So glad you have had some great rides, and jealous of your "no bugs"


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Well tonight's lesson was pretty bad. Feeling discouraged at the moment. Maybe writing it out will help me formulate a plan. But man, this riding thing is HARD.

First, we started with a good old spinney spook just for fun. Truthfully, the coach should have known better. She's young, and forgets that some horses are spooky. She was setting up jumps, and got out my measuring tape from the tack room. It's one of those metal tapes that roll up automatically. She had it all stretched out to measure 24 feet, and it was kinked so she shook it, making a metallic rattling noise. Kodak spun, I landed on the side of her neck and started to pull myself back up in my seat when she threw in one more spin and sent me right down to the ground. As attested by my bruised hip. We were just starting the lesson. To be fair, even Harley spooked, thought not nearly as much as Kodak, so rattling a metal tape around horses was probably a bad idea. 

Now, Kodak has also begun showing me a lot of attitude lately. I didn't know she had it in her, but there it is. We were doing ok, I was getting her to trot over poles, counting strides and all that stuff. Our trotting wasn't bad, but after a while, she got tired of it, and would suddenly stop. I pushed her forward. She began shaking her head. A couple of times, she put her head down suddenly and ripped the reins out of my hands, so I got smarter, and held the reins tight. She was not happy with that either. Of course I am still working pretty hard on my trotting position and she is distracted so I'm having to try to keep her straight while she throws her head down, throwing my balance off each time. Don't think she didn't know it either. Then came the cantering. The first one or two were ok, but then she started to put her head down between her legs at the canter, and I'm thinking this horse is thinking about bucking me off. The coach thought she tripped at one point, and I said no, this is attitude. She's telling me she's fed up with how things are going. Part of the problem is me. I pull on her head (remember, I ride bitless, but still, one can apply too much pressure) and forget to release. I need to remember to give her release when she's being good. But I'm still trying to remember the 1,000,000,000 other things I have to do. Nonetheless, I need to work on this, obviously, and giving her release when her head is in a good position (which it rarely is) needs to be a priority. 

Our cantering just kept getting worse and worse, and finally, I told the coach that I didn't feel like things were going well, and that I'd like to just focus on dealing with Kodak's attitude at the trot before we tackle this dangerous behavior at the canter. She was fine with that, but offered to get on and canter Kodak. Right away, it was obvious Kodak was not going to be any more cooperative with her than she had been with me. My daughter (who was on Harley, standing next to me) said "Yeah mom, this is where I tell you that you're not doing such a bad job with Kodak." It wasn't pretty. Same behavior, Kodak was all over the place, throwing her head up, then throwing it down. Even the trotting was pretty messed up. But to be fair, I take my responsibility for creating this mess. The coach was nonetheless able to get her to canter a bit, and corrected her a few times. 

I did get back on, and we did a bit of calm trotting (I gave her a little more rein), then walked, and I hopped off. I feel like a failure tonight, but I'm not giving up. I'm going to see if I can get a ride in tomorrow, and keep at it until I have her trotting well again, and losing the attitude. She is beginning to dislike the coach I think, because she always has to work harder when we have a lesson. And after the tape incident, she would back away anytime the coach came near us so clearly, she associated her with something scary. Maybe without the coach present, she will be calmer. 

I've also been slacking off on the ground work course, which is not helping. She is much better with consistent training, and the ground work seems to lay the foundation for that. 

Here's another fun trick she's throwing in the mix. Whenever I get ready to hop on her, I put the mounting block next to her, and as soon as I start to go up the mounting block, she starts to back up. She is obviously telling me something... but I can't let her get away with it. Right now, I just make her walk forward and line her up again (I don't move the mounting block because I don't want to have to chase her around). I take a step on the block, and if she moves, I make her step forward again. Eventually (after one or two tries), she'll just stand there while I get on her. But I fear it's getting worse. Tips on how to fix that? Maybe something I can work on when I do ground work? 

Ugh, on the bright side, my daughter is doing great on Harley, and my son just won a big football game between our province and Ontario! Very proud of my kids. Sometimes it's all I've got.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Are you certain something isn't wrong? Of course the spooking was the coach's fault - that sound is very abnormal and I believe it would get most horses to spook.
But the description makes me wonder if Kodak is trying to tell you something about either the tack or methods being used - something is not agreeing with her.
Throwing the head up and down would make me suspect a back or saddle issue. Things can change, and it can be something small like a bug bite or rub in the wrong place, a sore frog or etc.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

gottatrot said:


> Are you certain something isn't wrong? Of course the spooking was the coach's fault - that sound is very abnormal and I believe it would get most horses to spook.
> But the description makes me wonder if Kodak is trying to tell you something about either the tack or methods being used - something is not agreeing with her.
> Throwing the head up and down would make me suspect a back or saddle issue. Things can change, and it can be something small like a bug bite or rub in the wrong place, a sore frog or etc.


That occcurred to me @gottatrot, so I tried riding her in my Australian saddle, but it was worse. I actually switched back to my Thorowgood because she was walking so weird with it. Of course it is bug season, and she has bites all over, but nothing severe. The worst bites are on her chest and I put lots of Swat on it. I am getting my old massage therapist to come have a look at her, but she did get a workover not that long ago and nothing reaally stood out as problematic. 

This is also something that's been happening more and more, so it appears to be a new behavior that is gradually getting worse. The reason I think it may be learned is that once she settles into a ride, she usually throws in a few snorts. This has caught me by surprise in the past, and I've dropped the reins once or twice. Pretty sure she made an association in her brain, and is now thinking this is a good way to relieve the pressure. 

Honestly though, I don't think she's ever enjoyed being ridden. She really enjoys our ground work, but not so much the riding. So let's say there's something chronic going on with her back - how would you go about isolating it? Keeping in mind our vets have pretty limited knowledge and tools (they are not equine vets, but livestock vets so that tells you everything), and that I do not have unlimited funds. Maybe chiropractic work? I have mentioned that her spine has a weird curvature to our vet, and she just kind of shrugged. I'll take a picture to see if anyone has any ideas about it. It kind of sticks out between the rump and the tail. 

Her hooves look fine too. This spring she had a bit of soreness, but they look fine now. I don't know what else it could be. She appears to move normally in the pasture, but is definitely not a pretty mover, and that is made worse by putting a rider on her back.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

This sounds so familiar! My husband spent most of the last year dealing with the head shaking, rooting to get the reins out of his hands and just general obstinance with his mare. When we got her she had learned to put her tongue over the bit to evade pressure and brace at the neck. We switched bits (Myler level 2-3 with short shanks) and it stopped the tongue going over but then the rooting and shaking head side to side started - trainer had him start disengaging the hind quarters every time she did something like that or anything else (direction change, speed change) to get Belle's mind focused somewhere else. My husband was like you - the release was hard for him and he gripped tighter and tighter the more nervous he got - the direction change etc helped him refocus as well. You cannot "cowboy" Belle it just escalates into something very scary so we had to refocus her energy and remind my hubby to stop trying to balance his body on her mouth. It took some time but it has worked and his lessons this summer have been better. She will still shake her head back and forth if asked to do something she does not like but we kind of know what she is saying now so we look for solutions to help her understand.

As riders we get caught up in our 1,000,000 things and forget about the horse sometimes - take a moment to change something so you can both refocus. And I am sorry you fell off - but I think most horses would have shied at the "hissing" silver snake.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

carshon said:


> This sounds so familiar! My husband spent most of the last year dealing with the head shaking, rooting to get the reins out of his hands and just general obstinance with his mare. When we got her she had learned to put her tongue over the bit to evade pressure and brace at the neck. We switched bits (Myler level 2-3 with short shanks) and it stopped the tongue going over but then the rooting and shaking head side to side started - trainer had him start disengaging the hind quarters every time she did something like that or anything else (direction change, speed change) to get Belle's mind focused somewhere else. My husband was like you - the release was hard for him and he gripped tighter and tighter the more nervous he got - the direction change etc helped him refocus as well. You cannot "cowboy" Belle it just escalates into something very scary so we had to refocus her energy and remind my hubby to stop trying to balance his body on her mouth. It took some time but it has worked and his lessons this summer have been better. She will still shake her head back and forth if asked to do something she does not like but we kind of know what she is saying now so we look for solutions to help her understand.
> 
> As riders we get caught up in our 1,000,000 things and forget about the horse sometimes - take a moment to change something so you can both refocus. And I am sorry you fell off - but I think most horses would have shied at the "hissing" silver snake.


Thanks @carshon! This is reassuring to me. Honestly, the spook and fall were no big deal. It was one of those slow-motion falls where you almost manage to stay on, but then she threw in a little sideways spin and I fell on my butt. No biggie. Just another one of the advantages of having a short horse 

I'm thinking of trying her with a bit again. Just a plain snaffle. The bitless bridle puts a lot of pressure on her nose - to the point where it leaves a mark after from rubbing on her nose. So maybe the bridle is also to blame. I have never had harsh hands, so I don't think I'll be harsher with a bit in her mouth, and maybe it will put less pressure on her nose. Because she drifts all the time, I'm always pushing with my inside leg and trying to use indirect rein. After a ride, she does a lot of yawning too, which may be her trying to relieve some of the soreness on her nose. 

Another option would be to switch out the noseband of her bitless bridle for something that doesn't rub so much. I'm pretty sure the hackamore bridle isn't supposed to work with nose pressure, but rather poll pressure. Or switch to a different bitless.

I don't mean to sound wishy-washy, but if I knew the answer, I wouldn't be here looking for ideas. I need to find a solution because this is really bothering me, and putting a big dent in my confidence, which was just starting to come back.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

And thanks for the idea of switching directions, etc. @carshon. I will try this too! Just keeping her straight is so hard. Last night, she would do a straight line along one side, but on the side where there are trees, she always swerves at one spot, then the shadows got longer, and she was terrified of stepping into the barn shadow (sigh), and would try to skirt around it, making a progressively bigger detour as the shadows grew longer, then once I'd get her to walk in the shadow, she'd stop where the shadow stopped... so it's a constant battle. I do need to keep her focused on me more.


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

Your mention of the curvature in her spine on her rump made me wonder about this. Worth a read. https://practicalhorsemanmag.com/health-archive/identify-and-treat-equine-sacroiliac-problems-11803

And on the topic of rooting at the reins: when she does it only use one rein to keep her head up, not both. Randomize which rein it is that she's pulling against so she can't anticipate it. They can braced powerfully against both reins, but they have have a much harder time getting anywhere with it against just one rein.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Please take this with a huge grain of salt. Maybe a wheelbarrow load. If it bothers you or sounds offensive, please just ignore it entirely.

What you are describing sounds a LOT like what Mia did, and a LOT like what Bandit did. I tried using an English approach to the reins with Mia. Made her worse because she hadn't learned self-carriage first. Same with Bandit. He had been ridden in a bosal with the snaffle as an emergency brake. When I wanted to USE the bit, he wasn't ready to work with it. And bitless doesn't change it. A horse who isn't comfortable controlling himself isn't ready to be controlled by half-halts and constant bit/bitless use.

At least with Mia & Bandit, they needed a solid foundation in "rare contact" before they were able to listen with "soft contact". And yes, I mostly ride Bandit now western with slack, but he does sometimes seem to WANT contact. Then he gets it. But he needed to be able to rate himself and control himself with rare contact before he accepted soft contact well.

I view gaits as gears. Trotting is second gear. Shifting up to a canter puts me in third gear. To use trotting as an example, a trot may cover from 4-10 mph, depending on how fast the engine (horse) is working. And suppose your ideal speed, for YOU, on a given ride is 6.5 mph. Using frequent inputs, the rider tries to keep the speed between 6 & 7 mph. But the horse isn't ready to rate HIMSELF in that range, so the rider needs to constantly be saying, "_Slow down! Slow down just a little. Speed up! Just a little!_" With too much input, the green horse (Mia, Bandit) gets frustrated and confused.

So with them, what worked was to lessen my 'control'. Instead of using the bit - to borrow a phrase from a dressage book I own - as a "nozzle" controlling the flow of water from the hose, I needed to use it more like an off/on switch. So rather than try to stay within 6-7 mph, I had to say, "_For now, anything between 5-9 mph is OK. If you go above 9 mph, I'll use the bit. Below 5, I'll use some leg. Otherwise, just trot at what feels good to use._" 

When they learned to control themselves within a broad range of speeds, I could start narrowing it down. Until then, my leg and bit merely set lower and upper limits. Broad limits. Because if I set the boundaries too narrow, Mia and now Bandit get resentful. Once they (or he now, since Mia is gone) were comfortable rating themselves within a broad range, I could start asking for just a little slower with the reins and not get resentment. To get from using the reins for control to using them for communication, my horse needed to do most of his controlling by himself. That is part of what I mean when I say I had to give up control in order to get control.

I obviously come from a western perspective, but it was Mia who drove me to do so. She was getting very frustrated and resentful of my rein use. I was controlling her, not communicating with her. And for some horses, that is a HUGE difference!

Bandit also got very frustrated. He had been taught to run, fast and hard. If I tried to slow him when we were going fast with another horse, he'd get very upset. "_That isn't how you win a race!_" Bucking while cantering and trying to pull the reins out of my hand. Dealing with that meant using a defensive seat instead of a balanced one.

To a large extent, I learned riding from reading Littauer. Littauer (like many others) was huge on riding 'in balance' with your horse. To be "behind the horse" was a mortal sin! And that works fine on a cooperative, predictable horse. But sausage-making isn't pretty, and sometimes working a young horse isn't pretty either.








For my ease, let's pretend it is a, b, c & d reading across. Lots of western riders said to use A (dressage, WP). Littauer taught B (Forward). Both are good. But when a horse acts up, C (behind) works better. Particularly with a long leg. Then a horse who suddenly stops, or who yanks forward on the reins, or who bucks in a canter, or who spooks and tries to spin, merely thrusts you deeper into the stirrups.

Most of the spooks I've had involve a horse going from forward to either sideways or back. A rider who starts "with the horse" pre-spook or pre-crowhop is then thrust into position d - and are now "in front of their horse". That sets up a fall. But if one starts behind the horse, then the first 0.25 seconds of spook merely get you 'with the horse'. A horse who pulls you forward with the reins at best merely gets you "with him" instead of in front of him. A horse who crowhops in a canter merely thrust you forward into the stirrups. If the horse tries to pull the reins, he pulls you deeper into the stirrup and you can use the entire body to pull back and up.

All IMHO, and please feel completely free to reject it in total! It has worked for me while riding Mia and now Bandit. I'm only posting because what you are describing sounds so familiar. But each horse & rider need to find their own path and yours may be different. I often give offense without meaning to, so if this has been offensive, please shrug it off.

It certainly isn't meant as an English VS Western thing. More of a "stages of life in a horse" thing. The two I've done most of my riding on needed to learn to control themselves before they could accept "advise" from me.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Thanks @*SteadyOn* ... I don't think it's a hunter's bump... but some of the symptoms of sacroiliac problems sure seem to fit. She is really stiff, even without a rider on her. I don't know how else to describe it... she's jerky in her movements. And it's worse with a rider on her. Even with my coach, it was not nice. She does really well with a young girl who comes to ride her sometimes. I don't know why, but they really click. She is small, light, and very balanced, and has really soft hands. She's even jumped Kodak. When I see them tog"ether, it gives me hope. But with me, it's a different story, at least it has been lately. Of course Kodak is always worse in the summer for some reason. In the winter, she's lovely. But then we can't do much. 

@*bsms* don't worry, none of what you wrote is in the least bit offensive. At this point, I read all posts with great interest. That is NOT an invitation for lurkers reading this to tell me that I should either sell Kodak, or "show her who's boss". But any well-meaning suggestions are more than welcome.

I picked up quite a few useful tidbits in your post @*bsms* . This, for example: "A horse who isn't comfortable controlling himself isn't ready to be controlled by half-halts and constant bit/bitless use." BANG on. Kodak never looks balanced, not even out in the pasture. So I don't know what I can do about this. Perhaps lunge work? How exactly do you get a horse to control themselves, and balance themselves? It's a genuine question. 

And THIS: "I was controlling her, not communicating with her. And for some horses, that is a HUGE difference!" Yep. Totally. I don't know where I went off the rails, but somewhere along the line, I did. We were doing so well at liberty training, then ground work, and had a great connection. Our riding was moving steadily forward. And then I decided I needed to be her leader and take control so she would stop being distracted, and spooking. But now she is resentful of me holding her face all the time. I can't blame her. There has been too much taking control on my part, and not enough giving. Thank you for the reminder that I need to communicate, not just control. She is a sensitive horse, who is annoyed at me suddenly wanting to tell her what to do every second. Who can blame her?

Now, the whole position thing is a bit problematic. It's not that I disagree with you entirely, but I am taking lesson with my 13 year old daughter who jumps. I'm not going to jump, but it's easier for the coach if she can have us doing the same thing. And honestly, my daughter loves me taking lessons with her, so I'm reluctant to take that away even though I feel like Kodak and I would benefit more from something a little more low-key. So the coach has me in a hunter/jumper position with my stirrups up, my pelvis rotated forward, and my back more or less straight (inasmuch as I can actually accomplish this). Riding like this, I cannot achieve C. And even if I could sit back, which is exactly what the coach tells me when Kodak is in the middle of a spook, by the time it happens, it's too late for me to react. Take what happened yesterday. Kodak spooked at a tape, fine. I was still on at that point, but off balance. Kodak threw in one last spin just as I was recovering. My daughter watched the whole thing, and said "mom, she was trying to get you off." She knew I was barely hanging on, and intentionally went sideways exactly opposite to the direction I was hanging in. It all happens much to fast to have time to think. 

And the bottom line is that I don't want to have to ride like she's going to spook all the time. The spook was not the biggest of my worries. And if she decides to buck me off at the canter, no amount of pushing my heels down is going to keep me on. 

I want Kodak to move calmly. She doesn't have to be slow, just controlled. 

I did get out and do some ground work with her tonight, just to reinforce a few things, and reconnect with her a bit. It went great, as always. On the ground, she will do just about anything. We're not at the lunging portion just yet, mind you, I expect that to be challenging. But we're working our way through yielding to physical aids, and she's perfect every time. After a bit of ground work, I took off her halter, and we walked around at liberty, then I did all the yielding exercises totally at liberty. She was perfect. She could be a trick horse. Tomorrow, I will try for a nice, calm ride. I'll focus on keeping her going nicely at the trot, and make a decision whether or not we should canter a circle or two depending on how things are going.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Let's say it was something with her back. If you palpate the back muscles the day after a ride and she drops away, that would be one way to know. You could also watch her moving on a lunge line, then video a ride to see if she appears more tense or stilted when moving under saddle. 



Acadianartist said:


> This is also something that's been happening more and more, so it appears to be a new behavior that is gradually getting worse. The reason I think it may be learned is that once she settles into a ride, she usually throws in a few snorts. This has caught me by surprise in the past, and I've dropped the reins once or twice. Pretty sure she made an association in her brain, and is now thinking this is a good way to relieve the pressure.


Assuming it is behavioral - I'd personally focus on trying to get her to enjoy being ridden. 

This goes along with what @bsms said. Maybe I'd describe it a little differently, that the horse is getting overwhelmed by cues. It was why I decided not to train dressage anymore with Amore. For the first couple of years I had her, I took lessons and it was often frustrating. As you describe, I had to keep cueing her to keep her focused and on course. 
She is probably similar to Kodak, a very sensitive and spooky horse. 

Something I notice in your post is that she may be trying to get you to relieve pressure, which could mean that mentally she is not tolerating as much pressure. Not saying you use much pressure or force, but rather that some horses see cueing as mental pressure.

What I eventually concluded after riding a lot of other horses and getting a feel for them, was that with another horse I could do what my instructor wanted and get good results. If the horse started to lose the bend or speed up or slow down I could use micro cues to keep communicating with the horse, and it would keep the horse focused. 

What I found with Amore was that every little cue such as a pull on the rein to keep her from veering in or a shift in my seat was something she had to think about and react to, and doing this often would make her overwhelmed and anxious. If I wanted to do a leg yield, on another horse I could cue to hold the bend, and then do light nudges over-over-over as we went. With Amore, she'd get so frustrated because I'd nudge and she'd go and I'd nudge again and she'd say "I ALREADY DID THAT THREE TIMES!!" 

For Amore, she was only happy with macro cues that happened with a good long break between. At one point I had taken my unhappy arena horse and gone to trails, and she was happy out there. But eventually I came back to bad winter weather, stuck in an arena, and I decided to try to make her happy about riding inside. 

At first using less cues meant my horse was doing things I didn't want. I focused on one thing at a time. Trot forward relaxed on a loose rein. That meant at first she was cutting across the arena, which I didn't correct, and tried to break into a canter, which I did correct and start over. Eventually she started relaxing and feeling happy just trotting around. Then she was actually able to follow my seat, and stop veering and if I did a cue to turn or slow, then released it with a big release, she was responding. Eventually we worked up to her having cues closer together.

This was how I made progress, finally with her working in the arena without being frustrated and unhappy. She had to learn to relax first, then she would respond to the cues she already knew, and soon I had a horse that wasn't bending awkwardly or lurching around tossing her head. I'm not sure how this would work with your instructor, because often they have us cueing horses rather constantly.

I would guess with the groundwork you've done with Kodak, you know how she feels about pressure and cueing. How does she do on the ground if you give her more than one cue at once, or use them frequently? How did you get her to adjust? How you worked with her to make her happy doing groundwork should translate to what will help her relax in the saddle - the same type of techniques.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Very interesting post @gottatrot, thank you! 

So yes, if I press down on Kodak's back in one area, she flinches. Always has. So maybe this is something we need to investigate. But she also flinches if I touch her anywhere unexpectedly. One would think that one of the two massage therapists, and one of the two saddle fitters would have picked up on something being off when they massaged her back, but this is worth investigating I think. I can get the vet to come and show her. But diagnostics will be complicated. I wonder if giving her a painkiller and riding her before and after might show a difference.

In terms of the cues, you are also bang on. When we do liberty or ground work, I am very mindful of my body language, and very careful not to confuse her with a bunch of cues. I find it easy to stay calm and focused. My life is not at risk (though my toes are because she has spooked in place and landed on them, but I know I'll survive that). I really enjoy it. I do not enjoy riding her right now. That's the sad truth. 

What you describe makes complete sense. And no, I can't really do that with the coach, but I can do that when the coach is not here. And maybe I can discuss the idea with her and we can alternate between doing exercises, and me just focusing on fixing one thing at a time while my daughter does something else. 

I am very grateful for all the suggestions. I don't want to give up on Kodak, but am feeling overwhelmed at the moment. These are all things I can try, which may help us get past this.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

As planned, we had a ride this morning. My goal was to keep it calm and pleasant. I want her to associate riding with good things again. I will say that I felt our last ride did set us both back somewhat. She was very spooky the whole time, and of course, I was nervous, but hummed and sang, and chatted with her so I wouldn't tense up too much. She spooked once, and had a few starts at various seen and unseen dangers. But even the true spook wasn't a bad one and didn't unseat me. I honestly think she remembered our last ride as a bad one. However, this one went well overall, and I think I accomplished my goal of keeping it light and pleasant, showing her I can ride with soft hands as long as she's being cooperative, and, well, NOT falling off!  

All we did was a bit of trotting with me keeping my hands very soft. I kept as little contact as possible, only increasing it very slightly when I wanted to ask her to do something. She did very well. No head tossing, no tucking her head between her legs, not even any attempts to pull the reins out of my hands. My daughter and I played follow the leader and just did things like weaving around cones (which she did perfectly with very gentle cues), practicing two-point, trotting circles in each corner, etc. She kept a nice, controlled trot, and when she sped up a couple of times, a gentle half-halt brought her back. She did drift a little, but I've seen worse. I tried to incorporate many of your suggestions. I decided not to canter, but we watched as Harley and my daughter did (they got the right lead every time yay!). 

Then we did a little trail ride around the property to unwind. Kodak remained very jumpy (she always leads on trails because Harley is jiggy in the lead), but didn't spook. Near the end of the trail, I dismounted, and let her eat grass, then led her the rest of the way just so she would be happy about heading out again. We even walked around the house to use a different way home, and walked by the dog agility course we have set up by our house. She snorted at that, but I ignored her and we walked by it. 

Oh, I forgot to say that I palpated her whole back before and after the ride, and she didn't flinch once. There are no uneven sweat marks, white hairs, or rub marks that would indicate poor saddle fit. Doesn't mean there isn't pain, but I can't see any real evidence of it. And given that she was fine with me today, I'm inclined to believe it's mostly behavioral. 

Pics of her grazing at the end of our ride. I had a hard time backing away from her to take a picture because she wanted to follow me. She can be pretty cute. But also pretty scary  I'm hoping this is just a bump in the road that we can overcome.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

These pics remind me of some of the things we've overcome. This time last year, I would never have attempted to put a fly bonnet or a fly mask on her. But now, thanks to the ground work we've done, which includes desensitizing her to being touched all over, it's no big deal. Baby steps I guess.


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## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

Oh poor you. A failure you are not, that is for sure. I try thinking what it would be like in your place, owning and riding Kodak, and I just have mad respect for your determination. She is lucky to have you! I gotta say the first thing that comes to mind is actually trying a snaffle. We had one lady at my old riding yard who desperately wanted to go bitless but her horse was just having none of it and she has persisted for nearly a year! She finally gave in and admitted he was much more comfortable in a snaffle. Props to her for changing as she was a faithful die-hard for natural-as-can-get. And I don't doubt in anyway that you'd ever have excessively harsh hands. I think it's worth a try for sure. As for her back... well it's just a never ending thing ain't it? >.<

Honestly Kodak sounds crazy smart  In fact I think she sounds like a great character even though it is a struggle. Even Katie has some ridden attitude (if you can barely call it that) after a few days off when she's not in the mood and she's pretty good! If Kodak isn't in the mood, well....I suppose you get lessons like this, assuming it isn't a pain factor. >.< I wonder how you must feel when the instructor gets on and expects to get a different result. I gotta say she likely is bored of arena work if she's as smart as she comes across. Is there anyway you can shake it up with some cones for weaving or trotting to a section with a hidden treat, try get her to search for a carrot in a bucket with you on her back in each corner for fun? A different treat in each? Make it a real obstacle course out of silly things. If it isn't pain, she probably looks forward to her ridden work as much as I look forward to cleaning out my boa after feed day :'< Do you hand-walk her out on the trail? I love riding Katie and hand walking her on a hack as you know. She loves it. I try make her lesson work worth it as much as possible. But your snow... aaaargh. Can only really enjoy it so much in a year hehe. 

You probably ride waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than you feel and probably look. You've probably got more balance than most people here (cough) who ride easy plodders! So you're a skilled lady... and look at what you've accomplished on the ground. Your story was the first I ever read when I came onto HF and it inspired a lot for me thereafter 

edit: and both she and Harley are such good lookers 
edit: and I just hit send after you wrote your post >.<


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Thanks @Kalraii... I appreciate the kind, encouraging words. A great rider, I am NOT! Kodak has been an amazing teacher though, lol. So much so, that riding in Rome for 7 hours on a horse I'd just met was easy peasy! 

She is smart. Very much so. And we have played games, but it's true, we've done less of that lately. Summer is hectic for me, with the kids' activities. Harley and my daughter are getting ready for shows, my 15-year old son is playing in elite-level football, and my husband is away with him for 10 days, so I'm holding down the fort. I do work full-time, but am lucky enough to have a flexible schedule. Anyway, enough excuses, but it's hard to find enough hours in the day to get everything done. Of course I'm saying this to someone who has to travel two hours to see her horse!!! But having horses at home, as awesome as it is, means that 90% of the time you're around them, you're doing chores. Still, I agree with you that walking her on trails would be a nice activity. The carrot game with me on her back sounds interesting... since we've played it during liberty work, it might be something we could do in the saddle. And while she's probably bored with arena work, she's so spooky, I don't dare go far on trails. And of course I like to ride with my daughter, who has to practice jumping, so in an arena most of the time. 

As for bitless, I initially switched because Kodak hated the bit. I am really not attached to the idea at all, and would happily switch back if I thought it would help. It was just a D-ring snaffle, but she would push against it, and hold her head out straight. She was immediately more relaxed when I switched to bitless. But even with a bitless bridle, it's possible to hold a horse back a little too much. So honestly, I'm not saying I won't try the bit again, but in the end, I can switch up all the tack I want, it comes down to us speaking the same language, and me not always hanging on her face. I didn't mean to be "that" rider, but after several lessons of being told I needed more contact, and to open my outside rein, use indirect rein, keep her head straight, keep her attention on me, get her head back when she is gawking, I guess things went too far. 

Anyway, I will keep chugging along... tonight I fed them, and gave Kodak a really long full-body scratch session, which she loves. I feel like we both just need some quality time to re-connect.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Acadianartist said:


> [email protected]*bsms* don't worry, none of what you wrote is in the least bit offensive. At this point, I read all posts with great interest....
> 
> ...How exactly do you get a horse to control themselves, and balance themselves? It's a genuine question.
> 
> And THIS: "I was controlling her, not communicating with her. And for some horses, that is a HUGE difference!" Yep. Totally....


Thank you for not getting upset. I have a real knack for rubbing people the wrong way.

Here is how I approached switching Mia to slack reins.

I had a very forward horse who liked going fast. But with a long-shank western curb bit, I couldn't afford to use the bit as a tool to restrain her. So I made some compromises and looked at other options.

If Mia got excited enough to switch gears - go from trot to a canter - they she had violated the boundaries. If she did that, we stopped. Didn't just slow. We'd come to a full stop, then I'd ask her for a trot right away. The idea was, "_You can get excited, but getting TOO excited "will not profit you"_. With Mia, a full stop was a fair use of the bit. It was only briefly applied. I was often using one hand then, and rotating my wrist several times with the curb bit was enough to tell her "Stop". If not, then the bumps would get harder, and it was "Bump! Bump! Bump!" - once or twice a second - until she complied. In rare cases, a few firm tugs, pulling back firmly for a second or two, then release.

I found it important to never just pull back with constant pressure. She could brace and fight constant pressure. Bumps, or tugs if needed, didn't give her anything to brace against. But it did mean we might go another 10-15 seconds before she would yield! I had to be ready for that. Unlike Bandit, she never bucked at a canter / gallop in argument. It was more, "_I wanna, I wanna...well, OK. If you insist!_" The same approach with Bandit resulted in some bouncy canters! But my Australian saddle was very helpful. Truth told, I don't think I could have pulled it off in an English saddle. Others could, I'm sure. But with Mia & Bandit, there were some "sausage-making moments" where anyone watching would have called it ugly. That is part of why those were reserved for "_You switched gears and that is UNACCEPTABLE!_"

In an arena, while still in the same gear, we could often use turns. It is a game Bandit and I still play regularly. He chooses the speed. I choose the turns - how often, how tight, how long. It is a way of moderating his speed without telling him to slow down. Mia & Bandit don't show resentment about doing turns. Telling them slow down constantly resulted in anger. Turning seems to be viewed as "Fair". That obviously may be up to an individual horse.

In addition, I could sometimes modify how I rode to make "fast" less fun. My sitting trot is never pretty. If Mia got too excited in a trot, one option was to say, "_Oh goody! I need the practice at sitting the trot!_" And yeah, I'd bounce a bit - a lot - at a fast trot. I suspect it isn't comfortable, although I do TRY to sit well. It is just tough to do with a fast, elevated, high-emotion trot. And both horses obviously find a fast, elevated trot less thrilling when I sit it!

OTOH, if I ask for a trot, I almost always do it in two-point. Or 'standing in the stirrups', since some people say that isn't a real two point. However, unlike posting, I can stand in the stirrups and stay balanced in a fast, tight, trotting turn. It is WORK, but I can do it. So...if my horse is trotting when I'm happy to trot, I'm off his back and we can turn and keep going. If Mia, or now Bandit, trot too emotionally, then they get to work harder. Although I do give a good faith effort to sit well, so I'm not being "mean". A fast, elevated but SELF-CONTROLLED trot merits standing in the stirrups and praise, and the right to slow when my HORSE chooses to slow. 

I also found duration a good tool. "_You want to get all excited about trotting fast? OK, you asked for it, so you can keep on GIVING it!_" But if my horse was keeping control of her emotions, then we could be lazy. If she felt like taking a break, we would. Just stop and I'd scratch her neck and tell her how wonderful she was. She always agreed, BTW! Ego, your name was Mia!

Mia got to where she didn't mind arena work. Bandit is slowly getting better. But 10 minutes is a long time of arena work for Bandit! Both tended to say, "_I'm working hard and we're going NOWHERE! What is wrong with this picture?!_" So we do 10 minutes in the arena, then take a 5-10 minute walk out of the street (paved road, which is all I have near me). When we return for our 5-10 minute walk, my horse is more accepting of the arena.

Trooper is an example of a horse who just doesn't resent things. He doesn't get too thrilled or too upset regardless. If you work him hard for 30 minutes in the arena, or take him out for two hours on the trail - no difference. He salutes and says, "_Whatever you want, Boss!_" That is how he got his name. He's just a "Trooper". He's in the Horse Army. Mia and Bandit were/are quite different! If Bandit sees a reason behind something, he will work very hard and with impressive determination to do it. If he doesn't see any reason...well, he'll put up with things for a while. I think he'd be a tough horse to ride in an hour lesson unless the instructor found a way to make it meaningful to him. My farrier says he is like a mule - which the farrier and I both consider a compliment. Not all would agree! :rofl:

Anyway, those are the approaches I used to transition Mia to riding with slack. Bandit came knowing HOW to ride with slack, but he had been taught riding = racing. He had pretty good self-control when he arrived. He just didn't know he was allowed to use it!

VS Littauer wrote a book called "Schooling Your Horse". Here is a quote from the first chapter:


> "Forward Schooling is designed for cross-country riding and jumping and, while country hacking will benefit by it, it doesn't suit many other equestrian games such as Polo, Saddle Horse riding, Dressage, etc. In other words, it is a specialized form of schooling.
> 
> The contention of some, that any kind of schooling aiming at the physical development of a horse will benefit any form of riding, can be questioned. While generally speaking a physically fit body (human or equine) will have an easier time in any sport than an unexercised one, this notion is quite inaccurate in actual application. Obviously, different athletic games will require different kinds of bodily dexterity, and there is, for example, little in common between the efforts of tennis and baseball players, although both are playing with a ball...
> 
> ...


 He says later:


> "The stabilization of the approach to an obstacle proceeds simultaneously with the stabilization of the gaits - but this is a matter for anther chapter.
> 
> The above, approximately two months of work with a colt, can be adapted as well for an older horse or for reclaiming a ruined one, With an older horse everything will, of course, go faster and the amount of trot, canter, extended walk and jumping can be considerably increased to suit the horse's physical condition. In the case of a horse spoiled by bad riding to the point where he is nervous at gaits and rushes fences, the above work usually takes a boringly long time, often longer than with a colt; unfortunately there can be no guarantee of success. It is truly worthwhile to bring up your colt so that he is a well-adjusted animal...
> 
> ...This chapter is really a part of the previous one in which I described the first two months of work with a colt at gaits; now I will take up simultaneous work over fences. The essential point in these two types of work is the same (at this stage of schooling) - a calm, cooperative horse that performs most of the time on loose reins. You will recall that in this connection I used the term 'a stabilized horse'".


 He then has chapters on cavaletti work, improving agility, soft contact, semi-collection, etc. I have a postage stamp of an arena and no trainer. I don't feel competent to try much of what he writes about.

Concerning security, this post on my journal covers what Harry Chamberlin wrote about security and the Forward Seat:

https://www.horseforum.com/member-j...hrough-together-622121/page76/#post1970569393

Unlike some instructors, he discusses things to do when the horse isn't cooperative. I strongly dislike what he wrote about using reins and spurs, but found his position advice very accurate in my own life. Good luck and good riding!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

I've continued to have easy, pleasant rides with Kodak, and have not had a recurrence of the head tossing or threats to buck (though we didn't canter). Yesterday, I felt very balanced and calm, and Kodak was forward, but I didn't feel anxious. I want to keep us there for now. DD is taking up a lot of our ride time because she's working on jumps and our arena is small, so I just stand in the middle while she jumps. But that's ok too -- Kodak has learned to just chill while Harley runs and jumps around her. She had a tiny shy, but no spooks yesterday.

Perhaps more importantly, I've been working on our ground work actively again. I'm really struggling with the fact that I don't enjoy riding as much as ground work, and Kodak feels the same way. She LOVES our ground work and liberty work so much. I feel a true connection to her on the ground. Why can't I get that in the saddle? 

My daughter took some photos. We are doing some yielding to physical aids, and are about to start yielding to driving aids, then will go into lunging work. There is a clear progression in the course, even when some of the exercises appear a little easy. Each is a step towards something else, whether it's improving flexibility and bend, responding to cues, or just continuing to build our communication. So I can now get her to yield her hindquarters around a full circle on a loose lead, but also at liberty! After we do the ground work exercises of the day, I remove her halter and lead, and we just play a bit. She follows me around for scratches on the belly. I ask her to do something for me, then give more scratches. It's a little game we play  

So the first photo is head down (pressure on the poll and she drops her head for as long as I ask her to keep it there, I can also do this while she walks). Second is yielding her hindquarters (she does a full circle so I have to keep moving to keep my fingers on her -- when I want her to stop, I take my hand off). Third photo is her yielding her hindquarters at liberty (I've just removed my hand to signal that she can stop after this step, but you can see the nice cross-over of her hind legs as she pivots on the front). Fourth photo is me giving her scratches and fifth is of her following me around hoping for more.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

I love the photos - and am amazed at the kind and soft expression Kodak has on her face. I wish more people worked on ground work - the bond it creates is quite special.

I think the riding will come again. Those soft relaxed rides are the basis for more rides later on. Kodak has a lot of past baggage to overcome and those mental blocks are harder to overcome with a rider on. I am sure she is anticipating the next harsh correction or unkind movement. Baby steps in the saddle just like babysteps on the ground and you will get there!

Job well done!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

carshon said:


> I love the photos - and am amazed at the kind and soft expression Kodak has on her face. I wish more people worked on ground work - the bond it creates is quite special.
> 
> I think the riding will come again. Those soft relaxed rides are the basis for more rides later on. Kodak has a lot of past baggage to overcome and those mental blocks are harder to overcome with a rider on. I am sure she is anticipating the next harsh correction or unkind movement. Baby steps in the saddle just like babysteps on the ground and you will get there!
> 
> Job well done!


Thanks @carshon! Yes, I think it was too much too soon for both of us in terms of riding. We haven't done another lesson since we had that stressful ride, we've just puttered around, keeping my daughter company. I focus on giving her lots of rein when we trot, even if she sometimes goes a little fast, and "asking" for things clearly, then giving her a chance to correct by releasing the pressure immediately. It's working fairly well. Our riding may not look impressive, but we both enjoy this more than the constant pressure of an intense lesson. And in the end, I have to ask myself what's more important, for us to progress more quickly, or for us to enjoy each other? I'm not going to compete, so what's the rush? I almost cantered her yesterday, but we'll do one or two more fun, relaxed rides, and decide when we're both ready again. 

The ground work and liberty work are absolutely amazing. She is a different horse on the ground. This course (horsefulnesstraining.com for anyone who may be interested) has also been a major breakthrough for us. She went from a horse you couldn't catch, and who was described as "aloof" towards humans, to a horse who follows me around like a puppy at liberty, begging for scratches. Some evenings, after barn chores are done, I linger a little in the paddock and lean into her with my arm draped over her neck and we just stand there watching the sun go down. Those are my favorite times with her.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

I will say this. My husbands trainer stresses that he needs to take Belle on trail rides. What we expect of her in a lesson has been mind blowing for her at times and she became over reactive. After being a pasture pet for 8 years and what little she had been ridden was heavy handed the lessons and expectations of the lessons took their toll. Belle bites her lip and crunches on her bit when she is getting anxious. We still expect her to ride very collected and hold her gaits, as well as listen to leg pressure when asked for turns on the forehand and haunches - and she is doing great. BUT a trail ride the expectations are quite different - riding on a loose rein and letting her look around her and very little contact on the mouth or from the legs definitely destresses her. Not that we don't expect her to collect when we gait on the trail but it is far more natural for her now that she has been taught that in her lessons.

A sensitive horse needs those "detox" rides. That is one of the reasons I love @Tazzie 's posts so much. I am sure Dressage is far more technical than anything we will ever do but she lets her horse just be a horse and I love that.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

carshon said:


> I will say this. My husbands trainer stresses that he needs to take Belle on trail rides. What we expect of her in a lesson has been mind blowing for her at times and she became over reactive. After being a pasture pet for 8 years and what little she had been ridden was heavy handed the lessons and expectations of the lessons took their toll. Belle bites her lip and crunches on her bit when she is getting anxious. We still expect her to ride very collected and hold her gaits, as well as listen to leg pressure when asked for turns on the forehand and haunches - and she is doing great. BUT a trail ride the expectations are quite different - riding on a loose rein and letting her look around her and very little contact on the mouth or from the legs definitely destresses her. Not that we don't expect her to collect when we gait on the trail but it is far more natural for her now that she has been taught that in her lessons.
> 
> A sensitive horse needs those "detox" rides. That is one of the reasons I love @*Tazzie* 's posts so much. I am sure Dressage is far more technical than anything we will ever do but she lets her horse just be a horse and I love that.


Yes, and when a trail ride goes well, it's awesome. But right now, we have a few issues: 1 - my daughter doesn't want to do much trail riding at the moment because she's training for shows, 2 - the bugs are atrocious, much more so in the woods. We went in the other day and had to turn around because Kodak is so sensitive to bugs, she loses her mind, 3 - Kodak is extremely spooky in the woods, and I know anything can be around the corner, so it's hard to relax. I'm hoping we can do more trails soon, as the temperatures cool down, and the bugs decrease because I know the cure for her spookiness is lots of trail rides around the property. It's just hard to do right now.


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## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

Lovely photos. Honestly.. the groundwork comment so true. The more I hangout with Katie I almost feel guilty for riding her.. Not that she can be ridden atm anyhow >.< When you say Kodak hates bugs what do you mean? On her face or general? As I think this is now something I'm gonna have to deal with, too, and you seem to have a bit of experience with it!

Yeah I think unless you really want to show your goal should just be able to enjoy each other. No pressure. Kodak sure sounds like a girl not good with pressure. Is Kodak the sort to horse that NEEDS a rider, needs that contact to feel reassured when you're on the trail for example? xx


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Kalraii said:


> Lovely photos. Honestly.. the groundwork comment so true. The more I hangout with Katie I almost feel guilty for riding her.. Not that she can be ridden atm anyhow >.< When you say Kodak hates bugs what do you mean? On her face or general? As I think this is now something I'm gonna have to deal with, too, and you seem to have a bit of experience with it!
> 
> Yeah I think unless you really want to show your goal should just be able to enjoy each other. No pressure. Kodak sure sounds like a girl not good with pressure. Is Kodak the sort to horse that NEEDS a rider, needs that contact to feel reassured when you're on the trail for example? xx


When I say she hates bugs, I mean she goes crazy. We have huge flies that literally take a bite of flesh out of you. We can them moose flies here, because they drive the moose right out of the woods when they get really bad. There is nothing you can do to deter them, no bug spray works on these monsters. The only thing we can do is ride early and avoid the woods when they are at their worst. She wears an ear bonnet and a fly mask now, but even if her whole face is covered, they get her elsewhere. Sometimes when she is in the pasture, I watch her and every once in a while, she will make a mad dash for the barn where she hides out. In fact, they spend most of the afternoon in there now, coming out at night to eat. I will say though, Harley doesn't seem nearly as bothered as she does. The flies really stress her out, she will toss her head, stomp, bite her sides. I can't make her ride in that and there's no chance of getting her to focus on me. They're not so bad in open areas like the paddock. 

And yes, she seems to prefer that I'm "there", keeping some light contact, keeping her from getting too worried or distracted. It's funny because she's brave in some ways -- she will never refuse to go anywhere I point her for example -- but is always worried about what might be around the corner. So we generally just do the loop around our 13 acre property, which she knows well. She's startled at things on the trail even then, and if something big like a loose dog came out of the trees, I still feel she would most likely dump me. My daughter, who watched Kodak dump me numerous times, tells me it looks like a survival instinct. She has a very strong flight reaction. I try to control that flight reaction, which she may interpret as me trying to slow her down from fleeing from danger. So she gives a couple of spins/scoots/bolts and shakes me off just as I'm trying to get her back under control. At least that's what my daughter thinks. There may be something to it. It's a primal reaction. You don't have to outrun the bear, you just have to outrun the other prey.

Editing to add that she changes completely when I'm leading her on a trail, however. She might start at something, but I can quickly keep her under control and she doesn't feel nearly the same level of anxiety as when I'm on her. It's like when I'm riding her, she feels she is out there, but if I'm on the ground beside her, she feels safer.


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## avjudge (Feb 1, 2011)

Acadianartist said:


> When I say she hates bugs, I mean she goes crazy. . . Sometimes when she is in the pasture, I watch her and every once in a while, she will make a mad dash for the barn where she hides out.


No suggestions for when you're riding, but have you considered getting a fly sheet for her? 

My sister got full fly sheets (with belly bands) for her horses and it made a huge difference. She originally got one for her daughter's mare who reacts to fly bites with huge welts. But her horses were here for 3 weeks in July, and our bugs are much worse (fewer deer flies but we have them, and they're joined by SWARMS of black flies for most of the summer, as well as mosquitoes all day, and WHERE were those stable flies coming from in a non-agricultural area? Thank goodness we don't have your moose flies - you can keep them! Or if they're the gigantic biters we call horse flies then we have just a few). We ordered a fly sheet for her other horse. Without the sheets they wouldn't leave the shed for most of the day; with the sheets they were out happily grazing at all hours.



Acadianartist said:


> Editing to add that she changes completely when I'm leading her on a trail, however. She might start at something, but I can quickly keep her under control and she doesn't feel nearly the same level of anxiety as when I'm on her. It's like when I'm riding her, she feels she is out there, but if I'm on the ground beside her, she feels safer.


I observed this with my Rusty (mine 1975-1998) and wondered if everyone saw this. After I had her for a while, I found I could lead her practically anywhere. The most dramatic instance was in one of her very last years - of course we'd been together over 20 years so I'd hope she'd trust me - but I was leading her through a tight bit between a fence and a dumpster alongside a volunteer fire station, and I was _directly_ beneath the siren when it sounded. Her head went up and she tensed right up, but zero pulling on the reins and she continued to lead perfectly. I got across the parking lot and road and back on the trail and mounted up with the siren still sounding, and as soon as I was in the saddle she did her best to run away with me!

Anne


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Thanks Anne! We did try a fly sheet, but she hates wearing sheets too. She spooks herself! And honestly, it's not a big problem when they're out grazing. They just come into the barn when the flies are too bad (I have dutch doors that stay open so they can come in any time, and the barn is dark and cool, so very few flies. They'll spend a good part of the day in there, and just go out at night. Even with a fly sheet on, they would still bite her on the udder. She doesn't actually get bit welts - it's more of a psychological effect than a physical one. She is just very sensitive, and gets very worked up when the flies are bad. She isn't covered in fly bites or anything like that. She just gets very agitated. Do you know anyone who has zero tolerance for flies? My husband is like that. I can stand having flies buzzing around me, even a few fly bites, but he gets completely worked up, arms going, constantly batting and scratching himself, working up a sweat, thereby attracting flies even more. Kodak is like that. 

What a story about the siren going off! Wow. It would give me a heart attack, and undoubtedly, I'd be off Kodak before I even knew it.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

have you had her eyes checked? Could be a cause for her spookiness in the woods. my old bombproof guy has gotten spooky because his age and floaters in his eyes. 

But im glad you are still doing so good with her. As for flies i dont blame her. i do a dance when they bug me to.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

KigerQueen said:


> have you had her eyes checked? Could be a cause for her spookiness in the woods. my old bombproof guy has gotten spooky because his age and floaters in his eyes.
> 
> But im glad you are still doing so good with her. As for flies i dont blame her. i do a dance when they bug me to.


Yes, I had the vet give her eyes a good going-over last summer when she gave me a concussion and someone suggested the same thing. According to him, they're fine. 

Tonight, we had a lovely walk in the woods. Not a ride, just a walk after our ground work session to kind of chill on a trail together. It was almost dark, and the flies were almost gone. She was soooo much calmer and focused on me! We explored a new trail I'd added to our regular loop some time ago, but that has a few too many overhanging branches for riding. I hope to get it trimmed up again, but thought I could show it to her from the ground first. She was very alert, very focused, but never spooked, or even got worried really. 

Afterwards, we were just hanging out in the front yard as it got completely dark around us except for the yard light, and hubby came out with a couple of beers which we cracked open and sipped as we chatted and Kodak grazed on the lawn. Suddenly, Kodak's head shot up and her nose and ears pointed very clearly in a specific direction. Hubby and I couldn't see anything, but then hubby walked over a bit, and there was a deer standing there, about 300 feet away. So no, I really don't think there's anything wrong with her eyes. She's just on high alert all the time. In survival mode.

But tonight, leading her along that trail at dusk with tolerable fly levels, I felt like I could have been riding her and we would have been fine. Maybe we need to ride late in the evening... we're bound to meet a couple of deer, but she doesn't usually spook at them, she just stares in curiosity.

I do long for a horse I could take long, quiet, peaceful rides on. Someday, maybe. But tonight, we truly enjoyed our little walk so I'll take that for the time being.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Argh... I don't know what to think anymore about Kodak. She seems to be getting worse. And the equine massage therapist who was supposed to come in July has bumped our appointment to August. I thought of bringing in the chiro, but the only one in the area is known for being quite rough and impatient with fidgety horses, which is a recipe for disaster with Kodak. However, numerous vets and other equine body workers have said she's perfectly healthy. But keep in mind, I don't really have access to specialists. My trimmer suggested she may have head-shaking syndrome though. I feel it's behavioral. 

Tonight I decided to try a Western saddle out of curiosity because a) it's what she used to be ridden in before I bought her, and I was told she wasn't spooky at that time (desperate times...), and b) maybe there's a better chance I won't come off in a spook. Well, a) it didn't make an ounce of difference in her spookiness, but b) I did stay on in a spook because of the horn! 

So here's how the ride went: we did some walk/trot work in the paddock. I didn't worry too much about her speed, not wanting to micromanage. I sank deep into that Western saddle, practicing my best slouching cowboy position. Just kidding, but I did try to sit deep. She was quiet at the walk, but she got really fired up at the trot, going faster and faster. I let her, but wouldn't allow her to break into a canter (she almost did once or twice). I just kept going with some circles around either end of the paddock until she got annoyed and started to toss her head pretty badly. Like not just shaking, but full body kinds of motions. I've seen her do this in the pasture too. After the head-shaking, she would transition to a walk unasked. So I made her trot again. And again. She spooked sideways, shied away at the wooded area on one end of the paddock, but I stuck in there and kept her trotting. Every time she would stop and walk, I'd make her trot again. I did walk a few times, but on my terms, not hers. Finally, I decided maybe she was trying to tell me she is bored of doing circles around the paddock, so figured I'd do a short trail ride. We wandered down to the usual loop, and she was looky, and freaked out because of a red muck bucket (same one she sees every day), but kept going. We walked past our neighbor's pond, and didn't a bullfrog croak. She froze. I talked to her and told her it was just a frog, then asked her to move ahead. She did, but man, she did NOT like that bullfrog. We got past it, but when we turned away from the pond, she threw a big fit. She was throwing her head up and down, bracing against my reins, wanting to run. I felt I was barely in control. I tried a one-rein stop, but as she circled around, she tried to bolt for home. I halted her, then let her walk a bit. We walked past the pond with the horse-killing bullfrogs again and she was in a tizzy. So once we got a little past it, I stopped her, dismounted, and walked her back to the pond where I let her have some grass as we listened to the song of the horse-killing amphibians. You should have seen her. She would take a big mouthful of timothy, and when the frogs would croak, she would freeze mid-chew and just stare in terror. 

I walked her home at that point, but not wanting her to learn that throwing a fit is a good way to get out of working, I decided to trot her a little more once we got back in the paddock. She threw in a pretty good spook at the far side of the paddock again, where there are trees full of horse-killing leaves. I was able to hang on thanks to the horn (I fully believe I would have been off her in an English saddle). So I spent the next 15 minutes trotting her around the arena, and walking along that scary side of the paddock, only this time, I did not allow her to trot as fast as she wanted. I kept her at a nice, quiet trot. If she gave it to me, I didn't mess with her head, but if she sped up, she got half halts. No head tossing this time. Walk past the scary spot, trot everywhere else. And finally, she stopped looking sideways at the trees that became her resting spot. I halted her and got off right at that spot that she doesn't like. 

Success or failure? I don't even know anymore. But I am becoming certain that her head-tossing behavior is increasing in frequency, and seems to be meant to get her way (ie, not go to places or do things she doesn't like). So obviously we need to work through this before it gets even worse. 

Open to suggestions, as always...


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

You were very brave, riding her when she was in such a spooky mood. 

I'll give you some observations rather than advice, from my lifelong spooky mare, Amore.
Our story is that she was incredibly fearful, started very late at age 12, initially a fear bucker, transitioned to taking off running, transitioned to spooking (big) in a variety of ways, and eventually came down to just small spooks that were not so bad - either in place or just a few steps.
In early training she would get very hysterical/lose it completely if something scared her. After several years of training, she learned how to get very startled and become quickly calm again 99% of the time. I rode her until she was about 26 and she's 27 now, retired from back arthritis.

-She always did better with another horse. We made lots of progress going out with other horses on trail rides.

-Some days were spookier than others. On a really spooky day, sometimes I just would do something else besides ride. If we found some new issue like your bullfrogs, that would not usually be a good day to ride.

-Like your mare, she hated insects so badly that a fly buzzing past her ears could have her shaking her head for five minutes straight. Even if I made a "buzz" with my mouth, she'd shake her head for a couple of minutes.

-Like your mare, she was far braver with someone on the ground than someone in the saddle.

-She always did better going faster past something scary than slower, and often having her trot by would calm her. It seemed like if she knew she could run away if she needed to, then she felt less anxious.

-If we made it past something scary once, I'd call it good, and if we had to pass the same thing on another day it would improve day by day. Since there were thousands of possible scary objects, and every object may look different to her at different times, I stopped trying to get her to adapt to a certain object.

-I learned that she could tell when I was looking at something, even from on her back. If I did not turn and look at an object myself, she was less likely to spook at it.

-I learned that if I breathed audibly and slowly in and out when my horse was concerned about something, it would make her calmer as she heard my regular breathing. 

-When Amore was in heat, she would get sort of detached from what was going on, and seem unfocused. If something startled her in that state, she would spook harder than normal. 

-The first day back at something after more than a couple weeks off, Amore would be spooky, and that is something she's had consistently. If I didn't take her out on a certain trail ride or in a certain arena for awhile, I could always expect the first ride to be a spooky day, and then she'd go back to her baseline we'd worked up to on the next ride. If we went with other horses, this would be very minimal. Alone, it would be worse.

Maybe something there will seem similar to your horse or be useful to you. :hug:


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Thanks @gottatrot. Yep, Kodak and Amore could have been twins. 

All of that applies so well to her. And I hadn't ridden her in a couple of weeks because we've been so busy with Harley and my daughter since this is prime show season. It's comforting to know that we're not alone, and it keeps my expectations in check knowing that she will always be like this to some extent. 

She always prefers Harley's company, but sometimes I'd like to be able to take her out alone. Harley doesn't do so well on trails either, but Kodak's happier when he's there. 

One thing I still need to confirm is whether this goes away again in the winter as it has for the last two winters. I want to make sure it isn't a fluke, but if she calms right down again this winter, then maybe it's time to look at hormonal supplements. Of course, it may not go away. I keep thinking that if we can just get past this one thing, I'll start to see improvement, but then she throws something new at me. 

Overall, I did learn a lot from last night's ride. And I made sure we ended on a good note. I didn't let her get away with misbehaving to get out of working, and we got past the scary spots successfully without me being unseated. I do need to ride her more often. Even quick rides in the evening when I have a bit of time, just to make it a little more routine. She's not misbehaving because she's bored of the paddock because she does it on the trail too, so that theory is out the window. She isn't less spooky in a Western saddle, but I stayed on better, so that's a plus. I'm thinking about clicker training under saddle. In other words, giving her treats from the saddle for good behavior to keep her focused on me more rather than her surroundings. She does so well at all the stuff we do on the ground, really thinking about what I'm asking her to do and trying so hard to get it right, but under saddle, she falls apart. I so want that work to transfer over to riding, but so far, it's like they're two different universes that just aren't meeting in the middle. So maybe if I can combine some of our clicker-training on the ground with some riding work, it will click in her mind. Or not...


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

You did well with your horse and I think it was the smart thing to do, walking back and riding her more back at the barn, just to end on a positive note and not let her thing misbehaving will get her out of work.

Kodack is who she is and it's just her basic nature and you do well to keep working with her to overcome some of your obstacles.

Sometime when you have a few spare minutes just write down what it is you are looking for and want in a horse, I remember you would like to ride out with easel and painting stuff and spend a pleasant time just painting and enjoying time with your horse. 
Then look at your list and decide what qualifications your mare fills for you. Are you getting what you want out of this horse

Life is too short to waste too much of it on futile exercises.

This is not a meant to be unkind but just something to think about.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Woodhaven said:


> You did well with your horse and I think it was the smart thing to do, walking back and riding her more back at the barn, just to end on a positive note and not let her thing misbehaving will get her out of work.
> 
> Kodack is who she is and it's just her basic nature and you do well to keep working with her to overcome some of your obstacles.
> 
> ...


Don't think it doesn't occur to me every time I ride her. The issue is that realistically, I don't have the room or time for three horses. So before I could ever consider another horse, I'd have to sell Kodak. That's where it gets tricky because how do I sell a horse like her? 

She's not what I wanted. But she does have a lot of other great qualities. We have a lot of fun doing ground work, liberty training and trick training. I've shared really great moments with her. But in terms of riding, no... she's not nor will she likely ever be the right horse for me. 

Yet I'm not ready to move on for a number of reasons. I worry that another horse will have other flaws. I'd want a trial so I don't end up with other problems. So that means keeping three horses, at least for a while. Unlike many here, I loathe horse shopping. It's just so much disappointment. But I'm not above putting the word out that I'd take someone's older horse ready for semi-retirement. I just wish I had more room. There is space for a third stall, but I'd need more room for hay, and the pastures I have are barely enough for two... and I could see myself letting Kodak go if I knew where she was going, and felt it was a good home for her. But I fear that is a tall order.


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## avjudge (Feb 1, 2011)

Acadianartist said:


> Do you know anyone who has zero tolerance for flies?


Most people (from my husband's family) who visit us from Southern California fit that description :lol:

Since my sister's horses both seemed unperturbed by their fly sheets, I think it was a great solution for them - they're both older, the mare significantly so (exact age unknown), arthritic, and we suspect she's prone to ulcers, so standing still, not eating, all day in the shed was not in her interest (esp. since there was lots of grass but no hay left). But you have very different horses and a different set-up.



Acadianartist said:


> What a story about the siren going off! Wow. It would give me a heart attack, and undoubtedly, I'd be off Kodak before I even knew it.


Yes, I was SO GLAD I was on the ground and not in the saddle when it happened! Though - completely the opposite of Kodak - she wasn't much of a bolter at all, that might have done it. (I can think of 2 times she bolted in 20 years - both due to scary noises on her back that got worse when she ran, one a flapping windbreaker, the other a crinkling metal tape measure. Grouse and (once) a nesting turkey exploding from under her nose just caused a start/spook-in-place.)

Sorry to hear of your setback the other day. It's so discouraging when that happens. 



Anne


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