# Yes, I know he's standing on his lead rope..



## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Okay, I gotta ask. Why do people flip out when your horse's lead rope is under the horse's legs? I graze my horse in his halter and lead all the time. He steps on the rope, steps back off...repeat. He never freaks out, he always can figure out which foot he needs to move to get off the rope. Either he's brilliant or people just don't give their horses enough credit. Someone told me it can get caught in his legs, but unless the rope can leap up off the ground, I'm thinking that's not the case. I'm just getting really tired of people pointing that out to me at shows to the point where I want to put a sign on my horse saying, "yes, I know I'm standing on my lead rope. I can deal with it". Anyone know why this freaks people out so much?


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## Tymer (Dec 28, 2009)

If he's standing on it, he might lift his head quickly and get pulled back down. That could, in turn, spook them and make the whole situation dangerous.
The problem I encounter is that when I'm not paying attention for two seconds he steps on the lead...Then to fix it I pick his foot up. As I put my hand on his leg, his head shoots up and he mini-spooks at the sudden pull. Well...At least it gets the leadrope out from under his foot when he backs up suddenly.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Because I've seen a horse die in a similar manner, by stepping on the rope, panicking, flipping over backwards, and splitting his skull open.

Now, if your horse is used to it, and well supervised, and of a calm nature, you can probably get away with it.


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## MoodIndigo (Oct 18, 2010)

bubba13 said:


> Because I've seen a horse die in a similar manner, by stepping on the rope, panicking, flipping over backwards, and splitting his skull open.


Wow.

My horse is the same way, Puck. Of course I have a cotton lead with a breakaway halter, but my guy totally figures it out. He will step on, step off. Bring his head up, and be like Oh, I can't move it, I wonder why. Hah! It actually comes in handy sometimes, like if I want him to stand, I just let him stand on his lead so he won't go anywhere 

And he's a TB x Dutch WB!! Calm as can be


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## pintophile (May 18, 2011)

I get bickered at all the time for this. If a horse doesn't know how to give to pressure and put its head down when it steps on its own lead rope, or whoa when I tell it to in order to "save" it, well...need I say more? I want every horse I own to know how to yield to pressure when this happens and get themselves out of trouble by stepping off the lead, and they do.


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## IslandWave (Nov 25, 2009)

Because some horses DO freak out and can injure themselves and/or the humans/other horses around them.

Usually this is a matter of the horse not being taught how to deal with it or some horses just aren't smart enough to deal with it. Kind of like a horse that pulls back when being straight-tied. Most can be taught to stand respectfully while others are 22 years old and will still pull back and flip over no matter what. It doesn't make them a bad horse, it just doesn't click in their brain.

Anyways, I'm sure that the people telling you this are simply concerned for you and your horses safety. I would lie down on my back in the grass and make shapes out of the clouds while my horse free grazed next to me and got a few comments about that. Like you, I knew my horse well enough to do so in a safe manner and she is the only horse in the world that I felt comfortable enough doing that with. People will catch on. Don't let them bother you too much.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

It is true that there is a daner there, but I agree that any horse should learn how to do this and learn how to self release. And should do this pretty early on. You can work on this by putting them in a round pen with a halter on and a relatively short leadline on, like a 6 foot one. Let them figure it out over and over again. Being a short lead line will help it release and stay releaased if they put their head up.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Yeah, Puck certainly does fall into the cool cucumber club. I love watching him survey each foot to figure out which one is preventing him from moving a step forward to the next yummy patch of grass. Guess I would prefer that people trust that I know my own horse well enough to not endanger him.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

I've been grazing my horses in a halter and lead line for 30 years. I've not had a problem doing so and see no reason not to continue. Any horse that flips out when stepping on the lead line has other problems as well and those need to be addressed.


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## x Bustie and Alli x (Jan 15, 2011)

The only time I've ever had a problem with a horse with a rope under its legs was when it had been tied, spooked, broke the string and then stood on the rope. Too hyped up to stop and figure it out so got more paniked... If the horse is just grazing then there really isn't a problem. There clever enough to work out how to free 'emself up. Welll... most are anyways and if they just dont get it then dont do it!

People know there own horse n it really bugs me when a nose-in-the-air busybody will come along and say 'oh you should't do that... you should do it this way because everyone at my barn does it this way'


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## Chardavej (Mar 13, 2011)

I've seen horses that give to pressure freak when stepping on a lead rope. I think it's one thing when they have their head and give to pressure than when it's down on the ground and suddenly they can't LIFT their head and panick, freak, break the lead/halter and fall down (luckily not flip over when the lead/halter broke). These were calm quiet horses who gave to pressure.

I do like mine to learn that, I take them somewhere soft and let them graze, I stand by them and ready to push them the lead or whatever till they learn.


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## Eliz (Jun 16, 2010)

Oh, but MBP, you have a crazy ottb!!

Lol I've always grazed my horses like that. Never had a problem. A horse that was spooking everywhere and being really squirrely I may think twice about though.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

I think it's a great way to teach your horse to be calm and not panic when they get "stuck." My horses aren't usually let loose like that unless I'm there supervising though.

The first time I did it with Gracie, she stepped on it once and from then, learned to walk with her head off to the side to keep it out if the way, lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Safe or unsafe, my question is why would you leave a halter and lead rope on a horse grazing in a pasture to begin with? I see nothing to be gained...


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Faceman said:


> Safe or unsafe, my question is why would you leave a halter and lead rope on a horse grazing in a pasture to begin with? I see nothing to be gained...


Who said anything about turning a horse out in a pasture like that? I'm talking about standing there at a show or after a ride with you on one end of the line and your horse on the other getting a little grass snack. It seems to freak people out despite the fact that it's my horse, and I'm standing right there.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

I think people freak out for a few reasons:

1.) They have had a prior bad experience in that situation and speak out of genuine concern for safety.

2.) It wouldn't be their personal choice to graze their own horse like that and they speak without knowledge of you and your horse.

3.) Because horse people LOVE to tell other horse people how to manage their horses :wink:

*Personally* it does worry me if my horse steps on his/her lead rope, although to date every horse I have had that has found themselves in such a situation has calmly rectified it themselves without hassle. The only time I would mention it to someone else was if I thought they hadn't noticed. It wouldn't freak me out as such, I'd probably just say something like "watch out he's on his lead rope there."


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

I don't think it's an issue at all. It's good training for a horse not to freak out when unexpected pressure occurs. This is similar to teaching a horse to hobble. Once the gear is on and in place, the horse knows the drill. 

For my horse, when she has the halter and lead on, if I drop the lead, it means she is ground tied and she is NOT allowed to graze. If I take off the lead and put on the hobbles, she IS allowed to graze. Just a different tool.


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## CowgirlsR4Ever300 (Mar 31, 2011)

I do the same thing with my horses. And people freak out. I just say its my horse and they understand. When my gelding steps on his rope he stops and as your horse does steps off his lead.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

My horse is trained to give to pressure but I have never allowed him to step on his lead rope as I just don't see what it would achieve for me, and I see no purpose in him getting a head jerk for no reason. 
If others want to though, fine, go ahead with your own horses.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

MyBoyPuck said:


> Who said anything about turning a horse out in a pasture like that? I'm talking about standing there at a show or after a ride with you on one end of the line and your horse on the other getting a little grass snack. It seems to freak people out despite the fact that it's my horse, and I'm standing right there.


Have you read the other responses? Several people have. Why ask that question?

I repeat - I see nothing positive to be gained by grazing a horse with a halter and lead rope on. It doesn't even make sense. Why not a saddle too? While the odds of anything bad happening may be very small, they are there nonetheless, and if there is nothing to be gained, why do it?


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Faceman said:


> I repeat - I see nothing positive to be gained by grazing a horse with a halter and lead rope on. It doesn't even make sense. Why not a saddle too? While the odds of anything bad happening may be very small, they are there nonetheless, and if there is nothing to be gained, why do it?


I see many things to be gained. There are odds that a horse will be hurt in the pasture, or under saddle, or just standing in a stall - go with the odds if they are heavily in your favor. If there is machinery or debris in the field, then "no" but if your grazing area is free of obstacles, then why not.

There are many sides to the question and all we can do is give our experience - positive and negative.


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## Arksly (Mar 13, 2010)

Faceman said:


> Have you read the other responses? Several people have. Why ask that question?
> 
> I repeat - I see nothing positive to be gained by grazing a horse with a halter and lead rope on. It doesn't even make sense. Why not a saddle too? While the odds of anything bad happening may be very small, they are there nonetheless, and if there is nothing to be gained, why do it?


Why wouldn't it make sense?

Not everyone has access to a pasture or paddock with grass in it. I'm in that situation currently and I see absolutely nothing wrong with my horse having a snack. Or, when you're at a show and your horse is stuck in a stall most of the time, grazing is a good way to let them move around a little.

As for letting your horse step on the leadrope, I really don't see anything wrong with it. Stuff happens and if I have to drop the leadrope and my horse steps on it (even though she's *supposed to be ground tied - we're still working on that) I can remain calm and know that she isn't going to freak out.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

iridehorses said:


> I see many things to be gained. There are odds that a horse will be hurt in the pasture, or under saddle, or just standing in a stall - go with the odds if they are heavily in your favor. If there is machinery or debris in the field, then "no" but if your grazing area is free of obstacles, then why not.
> 
> There are many sides to the question and all we can do is give our experience - positive and negative.


If you see "many things to be gained", what are they? You didn't list any in your post. I am curious what can be gained by letting a horse graze with a halter or halter and lead rope. 

Many horses have been injured or killed by leaving halters on them in pastures and paddocks. Just what are the positives about leaving a halter on that make the risk worthwile? That is a perfectly reasonable question...


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

Faceman said:


> If you see "many things to be gained", what are they? You didn't list any in your post. I am curious what can be gained by letting a horse graze with a halter or halter and lead rope.
> 
> Many horses have been injured or killed by leaving halters on them in pastures and paddocks. Just what are the positives about leaving a halter on that make the risk worthwile? That is a perfectly reasonable question...


No one is talking about putting a horse out to pasture with a lead/halter on, they're talking about walking around an UNfenced area with grass so that they're horse can graze under their supervision.

I agree that every horse should be able to either stand stock still or pick their foot up off a lead should they get stuck. And not just on a lead, on absolutely anything, and it should be carried over onto this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

For me the positive is that my horse gets grass that she otherwise would not have access to. Although I've never had a horse wonder away, there is always the possibility that it can happen so I can either hobble her (which I sometimes do) or leave on the rope halter and lead line. I am not advocating leaving a halter on a horse while in the pasture unsupervised nor am I suggesting that just any horse could or should be put in a field that way. It is the way I do it.

What I see as a benefit may not work for you but that doesn't mean that either of us is right or wrong - that's just the way we choose to handle our horses.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

No, there is no right or wrong - just different philosophies. I am just hearing a lot of talk about how these horses are so well trained to "give to pressure" or not spook, but in my opinion a properly trained horse first of all can be released without a halter, and second if there is a lead line the horse should be ground tied and won't graze other than in place at its feet without moving around, and won't step on the lead to begin with.

Perhaps people in other disciplines dont train their horses as well. My discipline was serious trail work, and strict ground tieing is a necessity if you don't want to risk walking 20 miles back to camp. I'm not condemning it, but the whole concept of grazing with a halter and lead line is just foreign to me...


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

iridehorses said:


> I've been grazing my horses in a halter and lead line for 30 years. I've not had a problem doing so and see no reason not to continue. Any horse that flips out when stepping on the lead line has other problems as well and those need to be addressed.


ANY horse?

Sorry - once again all horses cannot be lumped into a single category. Horses are thinking, sensing, feeling beings. Things happen. Should we all base everything we do with horses on a single person's tragic situation, no.

But neither should we assume because one person has never had an issue that we can all shrug things off.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Faceman said:


> No, there is no right or wrong - just different philosophies. I am just hearing a lot of talk about how these horses are so well trained to "give to pressure" or not spook, but in my opinion a properly trained horse first of all can be released without a halter, and second if there is a lead line the horse should be ground tied and won't graze other than in place at its feet without moving around, and won't step on the lead to begin with.
> 
> Perhaps people in other disciplines dont train their horses as well. My discipline was serious trail work, and strict ground tieing is a necessity if you don't want to risk walking 20 miles back to camp. I'm not condemning it, but the whole concept of grazing with a halter and lead line is just foreign to me...


If I want my horse to ground tie, I give her the ground tie cue. If I'm letting her graze, I let her graze and drop the rope. On a trail ride, she will still ground tie steady as a rock. How is that "not training my horse as well?" To top it off, I also know that because I have let her wander around with her lead rope dragging, she doesn't panic in the least when her face gets stuck.

If you don't agree with the practice, that's fine, but please don't suggest that maybe the people who do use this technique aren't "training their horses as well." It's different training, not inferior training.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Ground Tying is always a great thing to teach your horse as is having a horse give to pressure. 

After my rides, I allow Nelson to graze out on the grassy area's for about an hour before I put him away. While he is out in a nice sized paddock/pasture, with consistant round bales, they *he and his buddies* managed to gnaw the pasture down to the nubbies where there is barely anything worth eating - and as we all know, horses love grass - so I let Nelson graze away at any opportune time. Horses need their Vitamin E. 

When Nelson steps on his lead rope, he moves his foot so he can merge forward while he grazes away. He steps on the lead rope where there is no slack to move his face, I can see him processing the moment, and then he lifts his foot and his head can move freely - he puts his foot back down, away from the lead rope. He picked up on the training quickly, I was qutie impressed and my next horse, will have the same training. 

Some horses just don't, nor will get the idea of downward pressure and giving to it - most horses will and do. It's called proper training and spending the time to teach your horse.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Faceman said:


> I repeat - I see nothing positive to be gained by grazing a horse with a halter and lead rope on. It doesn't even make sense. Why not a saddle too? While the odds of anything bad happening may be very small, they are there nonetheless, and if there is nothing to be gained, why do it?


Subscribing. BTW, I do not consider grazing with lead rope = ground tie. 

As for stepping on rope. My silly paint did it month or 2 back (granted it was MY fault - I paid attention on something else, dumb, I know). She slipped, lost the balance and pushed me with her side sending me on my butt right into the thorny bushes. Very unpleasant (plus I hit my shoulder). At least she didn't FALL on me - that would be just awful. So yes, I keep eye on my horses NOT to step on lead.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I confess that Mac is not trained to ground tie. I should do this but am a lazy cuss. What I do is when I am holding the leadline, he is not allowed to take a bite from grass or bushess. Ever. But, if I drop leadline to the ground he may graze. 
There are lots of folks that use hand grazing because that is their only option to give the hrose some time on real grass. (which horse sorely need!) But this can cause problems later on when leading the hrose beacause the horse over or near grass because they try to dodge down and grab some while being lead. For the assertive owner, not an issue, but for the numerous new and less than assertive owners, it is an inconsistency that makes for conflict with the horse.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

The way I read Face's posts is that if the horse is out with him it is working, period. Working sometimes means standing still not doing anything. Grazing happens when it is not working. 


I find it amusing that so many people are saying that a horse that does not react their way when stepping on its lead rope is not trained. 
With this theory we have to guess that no horse owned by any of these people ever reacts to anything anywhere. Because they are obviously perfectly trained for every situation.
Knowing how to give to pressure does not preclude a horse from freaking out in the moment and not putting the two and two together of the pressure being their hoof on their rope, etc.

I think people mention your horse is tangled in its lead rope because one of the very first things most people are taught when introduced to horses is not to let them get tangled in their lead rope. 
It is doubtful most people are telling you to be anything more than helpful.

I miss why so many are saying train them but they can not be bothered to hold their lead rope in a manner that it is not dragging on the ground.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Alwaysbehind said:


> I miss why so many are saying train them but they can not be bothered to hold their lead rope in a manner that it is not dragging on the ground.


I can't answer for others but in my case, my hay field is 18 acres and I allow her to have full access while I am close by but may be doing other things. 

The phrase is not "can't be bothered" but prefer to allow her freedom.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Then why leave the lead rope on at all? If she can be trusted to not go any where the lead rope is not serving any purpose.


The question was more towards those who say they are grazing on lead like at a show.


ETA - I assume all these people who allow their horse the freedom to step on their lead are using a lead that does not have a chain. 


PS - I have one horse that I know is fine if he happens to step on his lead. I have one horse that I am pretty sure would freak out, even with training. She is a react first think later type horse. My third horse I would guess would not react but it has not happened (by accident) yet so I do not know this.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Then why leave the lead rope on at all? If she can be trusted to not go any where the lead rope is not serving any purpose.


I often times do take the lead off. I sometimes leave it on only because a horse, like a 5 year old, sometimes says "no". I find it easier to pick up the lead line rather then try to reach for a halter. For me, it all depends on how I think my horse is behaving at that time and whether I think I may have a problem catching her or if someone else will have to go get her.

I also find that with the lead line on, they don't graze that far.


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## pintophile (May 18, 2011)

Alwaysbehind said:


> I miss why so many are saying train them but they can not be bothered to hold their lead rope in a manner that it is not dragging on the ground.


And I miss why other people are saying "hold the lead rope correctly" when you could also train your horse to accept such a minor inconvenience  

I'd rather let them do it and let them figure out what to do and see how they react than "shelter" them from it and always have to be worried about a horse freaking out when it steps on the lead.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I let my mare graze last night while I was cleaning stalls... I just turned her loose with the leadrope dragging. Oopsie? She stepped on it, backed off it, it dragged between her legs... She ate the grass... and when she tried to sneak into the feed room I grabbed it... it was between her front legs and coming out the side of her belly... she just turned and followed even though the lead rope was in the wrong place... Oopsie?


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

pintophile said:


> I'd rather let them do it and let them figure out what to do and see how they react than "shelter" them from it and always have to be worried about a horse freaking out when it steps on the lead.


I actually have no problem with the horse stepping on lead while you are leading or letting it graze "in hand" (even though I still try to avoid it). But personally I'd never let horse wonder around with halter and lead when you have no control over that horse and the situation. Too many things can go wrong: it can spook and fly running and guess what's gonna happen if the horse steps on rope in dead run? Fall likely. And most probably hard. Can it break something? There is a possibility. Would I risk it? No way.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

pintophile said:


> And I miss why other people are saying "hold the lead rope correctly" when you could also train your horse to accept such a minor inconvenience
> 
> I'd rather let them do it and let them figure out what to do and see how they react than "shelter" them from it and always have to be worried about a horse freaking out when it steps on the lead.


Again, you can not train out of horses the lack of ability to think clearly in a panic situation. Heck, most people do not think clearly.

Not being able to lift your head at all is not simply giving to poll pressure. For a horse whose brain thinks panic first this is a panic situation.
No amount of training is going to change that.


I figure when I am out in public (and that includes being a boarder at a boarding barn) it is my responsibility to use what is considered good horsemanship. Call it setting a good example for the younger crowd if you like. So what if my horse(s) are willing to stand on their lead rope all day and not freak out. Being careless is not the example you want to set when you are at a show or at a lesson/boarding barn.

If you want to do it at home, fine. But at home there is no one to comment.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

I personally like to let my filly graze when I can, and she- like many- lives on a dry lot. I can also see where each POV is coming from, and I've made my own way to 'fix' the problem. 

Keep in mind that Sour both groundties (or atleast, almost always does =] we're getting better!) and stands well on a lead. Like some of you point out- it's confusing for a horse to have it's line dangling while it munches, then be expected to walk quietly as soon as the person picks the lead up. 

I went out and I bought a foal easy-catch. You know, those 6" to 12" pieces of leadrope with a knot at the bottom? I just clip it to her halter, take off her leadrope, and let her chew away while I sketch or clean tack. In this way I can still very easily catch her if she spooks or walks too far away without grabbing her face, but at the same time the rope is too short for her to step on. The worst she could do is bob her head too hard and smack herself in the chest. If she bolted or reared, the rope wouldn't be in her way. But I still have easy access to her. The rope costs only 2$ online, and I found it to be a very nice little buy.

Before I did that, I would simply loop the rope over her neck as near to her head as possible, then daisychain it. That way her rope was still on, I could grab it easily from her throatlatch, halter, or neck, and she couldn't step on it. The rope was release knotted to her, causing no problems if she got caught and I had to catch her, and she wasn't dragging anything.

Just simple suggestions for those who need a solution =]


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## A knack for horses (Jun 17, 2010)

The fact a horse steps on his lead line while grazing isn't what makes me not do it. It's the people who let their horse graze/walk around in a halter and lead while they aren't being held. 
All I can imagine is a horse spooking, starting to run away from the scary noise, and then tripping himself on his lead rope.

I don't mind if a horse steps on the lead rope, so long as somebody is holding the lead rope or there is no possible way for the horse to run around in his/her leadrope.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

riccil0ve said:


> If I want my horse to ground tie, I give her the ground tie cue. If I'm letting her graze, I let her graze and drop the rope. On a trail ride, she will still ground tie steady as a rock. How is that "not training my horse as well?" To top it off, I also know that because I have let her wander around with her lead rope dragging, she doesn't panic in the least when her face gets stuck.
> 
> If you don't agree with the practice, that's fine, but please don't suggest that maybe the people who do use this technique aren't "training their horses as well." It's different training, not inferior training.


I don't give a "cue" and, considering I don't believe letting a horse move around with a lead or reins hanging on the ground is prudent horsemanship any more than other potentially unsafe practices, I obviously would not teach a "cue". When the reins or lead are dropped, my horses are tied. To be honest with you, I have owned and trained horses for 50 years and have never heard of a ground tie cue that tells a horse whether he can move or not with dropped reins or lead...of course there are lots of things I haven't heard of. Out of curiosity, what is your cue, and if he is usually allowed to wander with dropped reins or lead, how long will your horse remember he is under a cue? Frankly, I find it difficult to believe a horse that is permitted to wander with a dropped lead will hold position very long after being cued. That would be asking the horse to remember 10 or 20 or 30 minutes later that it was cued and make decisions beyond its reasoning capability. The whole concept of ground tieing is that the hanging reins or lead are a constant "cue" that is there as long as they are down, so there is no decision for the horse to make 30 minutes later...


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Faceman said:


> I don't give a "cue" and, considering I don't believe letting a horse move around with a lead or reins hanging on the ground is prudent horsemanship any more than other potentially unsafe practices, I obviously would not teach a "cue". When the reins or lead are dropped, my horses are tied. To be honest with you, I have owned and trained horses for 50 years and have never heard of a ground tie cue that tells a horse whether he can move or not with dropped reins or lead...of course there are lots of things I haven't heard of. Out of curiosity, what is your cue, and if he is usually allowed to wander with dropped reins or lead, how long will your horse remember he is under a cue? Frankly, I find it difficult to believe a horse that is permitted to wander with a dropped lead will hold position very long after being cued. That would be asking the horse to remember 10 or 20 or 30 minutes later that it was cued and make decisions beyond its reasoning capability. The whole concept of ground tieing is that the hanging reins or lead are a constant "cue" that is there as long as they are down, so there is no decision for the horse to make 30 minutes later...



I give a tug downward on her lead rope and tell her "stand." Considering I always ground tie, and just today I hopped off on a trail ride to run back and grab a boot she threw off and she responded to "stand" just fine, I have a hard time believing she doesn't know the difference.

I don't let either of my girls wander around and graze very often. Maybe 20 minutes a few times a year. Just enough to remind them to "think," and so far, it has saved them before from full-out panic. Granted, I am aware that I have "thinkers" and I wouldn't do this or suggest it for someone who had a more flighty horse.

They also never get to wander without supervision. I don't just drop the lead rope and go home to watch a movie. I let them graze, and sweep up the barn, checking on them every minute.

With that, I don't know why people can't just agree to disagree. As I said, it's different training, not inferior training. And yes, for me, it's training.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

my horse doesnt care in the least if she steps on her lead rope. people at my barn freak out all the time, it gets really old. where i go her from they would turn the yearlings out with a nylon halter and lead for a few days so they wouldnt freak out when they hit the pressure.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

riccil0ve said:


> I give a tug downward on her lead rope and tell her "stand." Considering I always ground tie, and just today I hopped off on a trail ride to run back and grab a boot she threw off and she responded to "stand" just fine, I have a hard time believing she doesn't know the difference.
> 
> I don't let either of my girls wander around and graze very often. Maybe 20 minutes a few times a year. Just enough to remind them to "think," and so far, it has saved them before from full-out panic. Granted, I am aware that I have "thinkers" and I wouldn't do this or suggest it for someone who had a more flighty horse.
> 
> ...


It's not a matter of disagreeing. Any cue to ground tie other than the mere hanging of the reins or lead rope is a temprorary cue and will not hold over time, and that is a fact - not an opinion on which to agree or disagree.

Perhaps I wasn't clear in my explanation, which wouldn't be the first time I may have worded something in a way that was confusing - let me try rephrasing it.

Scenario One - the cue to ground tie consists of the hanging reins or lead themselves. Because they are on the ground, the cue is constantly reinforced, and an hour later the horse will still be ground tied because it is still being cued by the reins/lead, which are a constant cue.

Scenario Two - this is your scenario, where you use a cue other than the hanging reins. The horse stays put temporarily because of your cue, but with no further reinforcement, the horse will not hold the ground tie indefinitely. Because you permit the horse to sometimes wander and graze, the hanging reins/lead are not themselves cues. An hour later, a horse is not going to remember it was given a cue an hour before.

I will grant you that a cue other than the lead or reins will ground tie a horse for a short time - you can teach a horse to do just about anything. But if you want a horse to be truly trained to ground tie in such a manner that you can leave him and climb a hill or cook your camp lunch or do whatever for an extended period of time, the cue has to be the reins or lead hanging on the ground at its feet...any cue other than that is not reinforced in your absence and will not hold over time.

I am not trying to be argumentative, and if you train yours that way it is just fine...but you are in effect giving them a temporary "stay" command - not ground tieing them. A horse that is ground tied will stand there for hours just as if he were tied to a tree or post, whether or not you are in the immediate vicinity.

The only reason this came up to begin with, is a horse that is properly trained to ground tie can't be turned out to pasture with a hanging lead, or it will just stand there and nibble what is around its feet...the lead needs to come off for it to move around, and for safety sake so should the halter.

I understand most people here are just talking about letting them graxe for a few minutes, but I am extrapolating it. But for me, I still wouldn't turn them loose with a halter and lead. Anyone that has had horses for very long knows stuff happens, and if it is for a short period of time I would rather just hold the lead myself...


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

That may be true, but I have no need to ground tie and leave for that long, so it's kind of a moot point to make to me. If my horse is ground tied, she isn't allowed to graze. She's "at work." I don't feel inclined to ground tie her and wait for an hour to say she will stay there, but I have faith in my mare to know tied from not tied. I can leave her anywhere with that cue for twenty minutes and she will be exactly where I left her. That's good enough for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Day Mares (Jul 16, 2011)

*Leadropes not a drama for me*

I graze my mare in hand in halter and leadrope and sometimes allow her to graze in her bridle!  She is learning how to lift her feet off the leadrope, slowly... but surely. If she has freaked out and broken off the tie with the rope dragging or if I fall off (which happens only too often) and the reins are hanging forward Piper just waits as if ground tied. I wouldn't leave a halter and leadrope on my horse without supervision but I am not worried if she stands on it while I am holding it. It's part of training me thinks


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