# Native American Horsemanship



## Fargosgirl

I could be wrong but I thought the term join up was trade marked by another trainer. It could be that he describes the join up process without using that particular term?


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## Fargosgirl

I just googled it (to see if I was full of crap) and the words "Join Up" are trademarked by Monty Roberts.


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## Tianimalz

The Native Americans were (if I remember correctly) quite cruel compared to todays standards of horse breaking and training.


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## Saddlebag

I don't know that they were cruel but they were fearless about getting on the wildest horses.


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## Ian McDonald

Ponyboy is cool. I like his style and his book has a beautiful collection of photos. It's all the same horsemanship though. Like someone else said, 'join-up' is just what Monty calls it. Buck calls it 'hooking on'. Same technique. All you have to do is create some energy in the horse and then direct it. It's one of those things that takes awhile to get good at but the technique itself is simple. The confidence in your intent, basically, is what determines how effective it will be when you practice it with the horse.


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## gigem88

Tianimalz said:


> The Native Americans were (if I remember correctly) quite cruel compared to todays standards of horse breaking and training.


Just like today, there were good trainers and bad. I've read a book by a Native American, (can't remember the nation or author at the moment) and what he describe was something along the lines of Clinton Anderson.


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## Tianimalz

gigem88 said:


> Just like today, there were good trainers and bad. I've read a book by a Native American, (can't remember the nation or author at the moment) and what he describe was something along the lines of Clinton Anderson.


I'm aware understanding of the animals and acceptable practices change over time, I'm not out right faulting the Native American's, and my knowledge is admittedly limited xD Good to be on here though, looking to learn a few things.


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## Allison Finch

What Ponyboy does is decent training but it has absolutely nothing to do with any Native American heritage. He learned it from present day trainers, but puts some stereotyped "mystical" Native American spin on it. It bugs me when people trade on their heritage simply as a way to sell their ideas.


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## Joe4d

i dont see how you can trademark English words used in a normal manner. Thats why you usually see trademarked phrases misspelled.


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## Skipsfirstspike

:lol:^^ Allison... What, like the horse in your avatar? lol Happy St Patty's day! :wink:


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## boots

My husband was half Lakota, so our children are 1/4 Lakota. We have lived on two reservations. One child still living on one.

There really is no one "Native American Horsemanship" any more than there is one European Horsemanship or South American... you get the idea. If you like that Pony Boy guy's was of doing things, give it a shot. But no one person can claim a style for many nations and people. Marketing, that's all it is.


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## Almond Joy

Okay, thanks! I have no horse of my own now to try it out on, nut a friend of mine might be trying it, so we'll see how it works with her mare and yearling...


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## Jolly Badger

I take the "Native American Horsemanship" concept about as seriously as I would if someone said they were Irish and did a "Celtic Horsemanship" method - which consisted of twirling stuff in horses' faces while the Riverdance soundtrack played in the background.:lol:

It's a gimmick, that's all it is. Just another "angle" for marketing basic horsemanship to an audience that wants it to be easy to follow.

The ironic thing is, so many people I've met who follow book/DVD programs are so anxious about whether or not they're doing things the way their chosen guru's program says to do them, they're not even paying attention to the way their own horse is responding. 

They'd be much better off taking riding lessons with a qualified trainer, or finding a mentor in the area who can watch THEM work with THEIR horse and offer suggestions based on what they see happening.


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## Fort fireman

Natural HORSEMANSHIP,
Parrelli HORSEMANSHIP
Downunder HORSEMANSHIP
Native HORSEMANSHIP
no dust HORSEMANSHIP
Whatever HORSEMANSHIP

The key word here is horsemanship. Everthing else is marketing to get you to buy that specific horsemanship style. I've watched alot of different stuff and short of the names and some of the different tools(handy stick, llounge whip,flag,lariat) all used for the same thing, they are all pretty much the same. they rely on timing and experience to get what you desire from a horse.

maybe I should start the Firemans Horsemanship style. My catch phrase could be "don't burn out your horse, burn out your competion". Who here has some marketing experience? we need to run with this!!!


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## Horse Poor

Allison Finch said:


> What Ponyboy does is decent training but it has absolutely nothing to do with any Native American heritage. He learned it from present day trainers, but puts some stereotyped "mystical" Native American spin on it. It bugs me when people trade on their heritage simply as a way to sell their ideas.


…and no Native American man with any self-respect that I know of would ever choose "boy" as part of their name.


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## Horse Poor

and here's an article when he changed his name from Kevin Anthony Morrell to Gawani Pony Boy

Storyteller Changes Name To Fit His Work * Carbon's Kevin Morrell Became Gawani Pony Boy Morrell On Monday. - Morning Call


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## Dame Nuit

Well well, a new one! :lol: 
I didn't knew him! I like his hair very much! :thumbsup:

Not many videos on youtube... :sad:


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## bsms

Horse Poor, I loved this:
_"He would not talk about his lineage. Nor would his father, Tony Morrell, owner of Tony's Place, a steak and sandwich shop on Route 903 in Jim Thorpe.

"You'll have to talk to him," the father said. "He's running his business. I'm running mine."

His father said he will still call his son Kevin."
_​BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!


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## GreenBackJack

Fort fireman said:


> Natural HORSEMANSHIP,
> Parrelli HORSEMANSHIP
> Downunder HORSEMANSHIP
> Native HORSEMANSHIP
> no dust HORSEMANSHIP
> Whatever HORSEMANSHIP
> 
> The key word here is horsemanship. Everthing else is marketing to get you to buy that specific horsemanship style. I've watched alot of different stuff and short of the names and some of the different tools(handy stick, llounge whip,flag,lariat) all used for the same thing, they are all pretty much the same. they rely on timing and experience to get what you desire from a horse.
> 
> maybe I should start the Firemans Horsemanship style. My catch phrase could be "don't burn out your horse, burn out your competion". Who here has some marketing experience? we need to run with this!!!


Thanks for giving me my first laugh of the day! 
Now where can I buy your DVD and book collection? OOh, and a fire engine red halter would be nice too!


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## Fort fireman

One of the things that I read in that articall kind of stuck me funny is this. Now bear in mind I am NOT a native american expert but I do know a thing or two about histroy. But anyway what kinda caught me was he is Cherokee from NC. Now when I think of Native american horseman I don't really thing Cherokee. i think more of the horse cultures of the Lakota soiux, Cheyenne, Comanche, arapahoe, Nez perz. The Eastern Cherokee were pretty much living as the white man by the early 1800's until the Jacksonian age when Andrew Jackson and his constituantes moved them to the indian territoy in what is now Oklahoma( trail of tears). That is why they had the monicor of the civilized tribe. Just some thoughts. Maybe someone here knows more about it.


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## Ink

Jolly Badger said:


> I take the "Native American Horsemanship" concept about as seriously as I would if someone said they were Irish and did a "Celtic Horsemanship" method - *which consisted of twirling stuff in horses' faces while the Riverdance soundtrack played in the background*.:lol:


:rofl: I about sprayed water all over my computer screen when I read that. I can just picture someone clogging around the horse with those ribbon wand things while it stands there munching grass.


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## AbsitVita

Fort fireman said:


> One of the things that I read in that articall kind of stuck me funny is this. Now bear in mind I am NOT a native american expert but I do know a thing or two about histroy. But anyway what kinda caught me was he is Cherokee from NC. Now when I think of Native american horseman I don't really thing Cherokee. i think more of the horse cultures of the Lakota soiux, Cheyenne, Comanche, arapahoe, Nez perz. The Eastern Cherokee were pretty much living as the white man by the early 1800's until the Jacksonian age when Andrew Jackson and his constituantes moved them to the indian territoy in what is now Oklahoma( trail of tears). That is why they had the monicor of the civilized tribe. Just some thoughts. Maybe someone here knows more about it.


I'm the daughter of two Cherokee who hail from the NC band, known as the Eastern Band Cherokee Indians, or EBCI. You are right, horses were not used by the Cherokee, as they were by the Western Plain tribes. They adopted a Constitution similar to the US Constitution and lived as the white man in vain hopes of being deemed "civilized" yet we still had copper skin. When the govenor of Georgia heard that gold was found on Cherokee land, he thought that the white man should mine it and that is what started the whole Trail of Tears debacle.


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## Copperhead

Horse Poor said:


> …and no Native American man with any self-respect that I know of would ever choose "boy" as part of their name.


You don't really choose your own name. It really depends on the tribe and tradition.

For instance, there was a Lakota man named "Young Man Afraid Of His Horses". I doubt he would have chosen that name for himself. A person was usually renamed through life, depending on different situations. Birth, a formal name, a name given during an illness, a name given after puberty and so on are just a couple examples of when another name was declared.

An elder would usually give the name, or someone else of equal importance where the name giver would hold ceremony and name an inidividual through a vision, or what Spirit suggested.

Many individuals would be known as one name in one tribe, and be called something totally different in another.

Of course every tribe had their traditions on names, so what I said may or may not qualify as truth depending on the tradition.

Pony Boy may or may not have chosen his own name. Or maybe he did. Who knows?

As for Native American Horsemanship, its a "form" of natural horsemanship that requires money in order to be learned. Just like everything else. I like Pony Boy's techniques, but only because I learned that they were similar to what I was taught. Same tree, different branch. Much like a lot of correct training is.


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## beach rider

I teach a natural way of riding by using and riding with the horses rhythm. I'm looking for others who use this technique to share experience and get feed back. I can not find any information on this subject. I live in Costa Rica and use no bits or shoes. 
Thank you,
Bruce


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