# why does my horse buck when I ask her to Canter?



## Barrel Baby

Hi everyone! I have a question i would like to ask you guys! Ok, my friend got her very first horse about 2 months ago. Shes not super experienced and she's trying to retrain the horse (it wasnt well trained). Everytime she asks her to canter the horse starts kicking and trying to buck! We would like your opinion on what she should do to keep this from happening, or maybe the possible reason as to why shes doing this. 

THANKS ABUNCH!!!


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## gigem88

Could be an ill fitting saddle, back problems or maybe the horse is feeling its oats??!!


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## horselvr

I had a horse that was 13yrs old and no matter what if he ran he wanted to buck. It didnt matter if I was bareback or if I had a saddle on. It was just the way he was. After having him for about a year I finally got him to where he would start to buck and I would pull his head up and change leads so he had to focus on his leg movements instead of bucking. BUT I dont know if that was the answer to the problem so I am subscribing!


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## JustDressageIt

Oftentimes bucking at a canter is a pain issue - either physiologically ordue to an ill-fitting saddle. My first recommendation is to rule out pain by getting a professional saddle fitter out - they will check saddle fit and the back a bit and they are less expensive than a vet. If that doesn't help, get a vet to make sure the horse isn't in pain. 
I don't like to advise beyond this point as many people ignore the pain advice and skip right to "he's doing it cause he's naughty." I do have advice for that, but it is a severe injustice to the horse if pain isn't ruled out first. They cannot speak, so we must listen to their actions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Speed Racer

My guess is pain from a bad saddle fit. I saw a picture of your saddle in another thread, and it's a piece of junk.


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## Sahara

It very well could be a saddle fit issue. The pic you have of her with the western saddle shows a back cinch strap that doesn't look connected to the front cinch. The back cinch can slip back and act like a bucking strap (like on rodeo broncos). Your western saddle doesn't fit her well either. Looks like the gullet sits on her withers. That can be very painful for the horse.


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## Barrel Baby

FIRST OF ALL WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT MY HORSE!!!!!!! OR MY SADDLE!! THE PIC ABOVE ARE BOTH OF THOSE THINGS!!! we are talking about my FRIENDS horse.....me and my horse have no bucking problems


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## VelvetsAB

_But the thread title leads us to believe it is your horse._

_"why does MY horse buck when I ask her to canter?"_

_The question was still answered with several versions of improper saddle fit or back issues. I am also going to add that it could possibly be rider error as well._


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## CanyonCowboy

Could be a stifle problem from an old injury. Some will kick out or buck when the patella or stifle lock.


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## Northern

Barring physical probs/tack probs, horse could be a Left-brain Introvert, because LBI's don't want to "go" a lot, & will buck rather than go. Parelli has the information on how to *motivate* the LBI, which is the key action: getting harsher will only cause this horsenality to get more stubborn!


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## JustDressageIt

I would put money on it being a tack or physical problem.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Northern

It does look like the gullet is flat against the horse's spine! 

The easiest way to test for saddle pain is to ask her for canter bareback.

A few questions to ask yourself about whether it's a LBI issue: does horse say, "Make me!" a lot? Is she food-motivated? Is she calm & deliberate, rather than nervous & reactive?

Yes answers show a LBI horsenality.


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## Dressage10135

Or maybe she is a BSH- big stubborn horse. With these types, you need to just ride her through it until she respects you.


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## JustDressageIt

Dressage10135 said:


> Or maybe she is a BSH- big stubborn horse. With these types, you need to just ride her through it until she respects you.


Hahaha. 
Yes. 
Of course if pain is ruled out, then it could just be a BSH.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JessPintoMare

My horse does it to. But not with anyone heavier than me.


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## Barrel Baby

THanks for your advice!!!


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## iridehorses

Some horses are just "cold back" and will do that until they are warmed up. Does the horse do it all the time or only in the beginning of the ride?


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## Barrel Baby

HMM my friend said the only time she bucks is when she only asks her to canter. no other time than that, it could be her saddle. she said when she's trotting, her horse trots fast autmatically where it seems like she wants to canter. But when she asks, the horse just starts squirming and kicking out her legs and bouncing.


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## Cinnys Whinny

Barrel Baby said:


> HMM my friend said the only time she bucks is when she only asks her to canter. no other time than that, it could be her saddle. she said when she's trotting, her horse trots fast autmatically where it seems like she wants to canter. But when she asks, the horse just starts squirming and kicking out her legs and bouncing.


This sounds a little like my horse, Cinny. I know Cin does it when he is due for a chiro adjustment. Since getting him a year ago we have discovered that he is missing a vertabra (which happens sometimes with paints) and his sacroiliac joint has a bad habit of stiffening and locking up on him. I would definitely tell your friend to have a vet come out and check out that horse's back as it sounds like there may be an issue there. You also want to make sure that saddle fits properly (Cinny bucks with every western saddle I've ever had on him so we go dressage at this point) My vet gave me specific exercises and stretches to do with Cin which help him a lot.

It's always best to rule out pain and bad tack fit before assuming the horse has a behavior issue.....


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## mls

Northern said:


> Barring physical probs/tack probs, horse could be a Left-brain Introvert, because LBI's don't want to "go" a lot, & will buck rather than go. Parelli has the information on how to *motivate* the LBI, which is the key action: getting harsher will only cause this horsenality to get more stubborn!


Guess he didn't remember his own advice when he was bucked off during the road to the horse.

OP - another theory - if your friend is pressing the gas and the brake at the same time, she is likely ticking off/confusing the horse.

(too much pressure on her face to hold her yet kicking her forward)


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## Northern

mls said:


> Guess he didn't remember his own advice when he was bucked off during the road to the horse.
> 
> (too much pressure on her face to hold her yet kicking her forward)


The possibility of having advice posted from PNH go "unbashed" is about as good as the possibility of George W. Bush giving sagacious extemporaneous speeches.:wink:

Just because PP had yet another loose screw moment on the colt doesn't mean that horsenalities is a false body of info.

Conflicting signals to the horse? Well, yah, add that to the list, right at #1, if necessary!


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## Poseidon

I agree with what has been said previously about saddle fit, but I also agree with Cinny's Whinny: A chiropractic adjustment couldn't hurt anything. When I got my mare, I was told she was stubborn about loping, but would eventually do it if you were persistent. So I was, but every time I was bucked multiple times. I watched her running around with her friends, but she wouldn't lope if she didn't have to. If she did, it was extremely stiff. 

I called a chiro/vet come look at her and her hip was out of place. A quick adjustment and all she wanted to do after that was lope.


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## Cinnys Whinny

Ha ha, yeah...that's all Cin does. I get on and he says "lets go run," it's his favorite gait. In the turn out he actually gallops at scary high speeds which he NEVER did before ha ha.


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## Freelance Cowgirl

Hey everyone. Barrel Baby posted this about my horse Lady because I didn't have an account yet, but now I do. So I'll just tell you all everything I can about her so it might help.
_______________________________

I got Lady about 2 months ago from friends of my family that live nearby. They were planning on auctioning her and her 3 year old daughter. I was talking to the wife about how I was looking for a horse, and she said I could just have Lady because they knew she'd have a good home. So a while after that I got her.

I started off bareback just because I felt like it, and I'd had a little experience on a bigger barrel horse that belonged to my mom's friend. She did really well, but I only walked her (I was mostly testing how well she responded to her bit and reigns). Then I started under her saddle, which I have to admit... is a tad small. But I'm only borrowing it from the woman who's horse I rode on before. I'm getting my own saddle soon, which will probably be synthetic or nylon because I don't have practically any arm strength yet to heave a leather saddle onto her back. She's a perfect size for me, follow me around like a puppy, isn't afraid of heavy machinery, cars, storms, or dogs.

My mom and the previous owners (she belonged to the father in the family), think she was abused at some point in her life. She isn't a fan of men. She doesn't rear in the saddle, and I've started training her to lunge (which she's doing amazing at). So to my main problem (I have a talkative issue and I kind of went crazy with this post, and went into life storm-mode). Walking a trotting are great when I'm riding her. I use my feet to cue her, and only kiss a little to get her attention if she isn't paying attention. I never kiss to make her speed up on anything but the lunge line, though I'm trying to get her to move when I cue her by saying 'walk', 'trot', and 'canter'. I think she's getting 'walk' down a bit.

Anyways, when we're trotting she's automatically speed up on her own like she's going to break into a gallop or canter. I usually have to have a bit of tension on the reigns to let her know she has to keep the speed she's going, or else I know she's going to take off. Every time I've asked her to canter because I was ready though, she started bouncing and kicking. It wasn't a bronco type of thing, but I most definitely noticed it. I've never been bucked off, but last time I accidentally jumped out of the saddle by reflexes. I kept hold the reigns and landed on my feet though so she automatically stopped next to me.

I read I should try pulling one reign and making her go into a few tight circles then let her straighten out, and that I should keep doing that until she realized she should stop bucking? But I'm also going to ask my mom to get hold of out vet and see if he'll stop by too. Other than that, I don't know. My mom showed horses and she says I just need to keep training her, because when I got her she hadn't been ridden in over 6 months and she still was never ridden much before then. Thanks to everyone who has posted so far to my friend, by the way! I really appreciate it.


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## VelvetsAB

_The saddle is too small for the horse? Or is too small for you?_

_If you noticed that it is too small for the horse, why would you use it? Too big would be better then too small, IMO._


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## Freelance Cowgirl

It's too small for her, and almost too small for me. I can't use another saddle right now because the one I'm borrowing is the only one available right now. Not everyone can afford a saddle right after they buy all the other tack for their horse. I have literally everything BUT a new saddle. I sold a lot of things to get $100 for equipment like her girth, brushes, bathing supplies, halter/lead rope, bridle, etc. I sat several hours at an auction to get everything. Like I said... I'm getting a new saddle soon.
:-|


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## Cinnys Whinny

A saddle that's too small for your horse and you would definitely be painful for the horse, I would stop using it. 

It still sounds to me like there may be some other issues going on with the back or hips. Also, if the horse hasn't had much work, then it might be too out of condition to canter comfortably....also an issue I had with Cinny when I first got him. In fact, I've had him a year and it has taken this long to smooth out his canter....we have done a lot of lunge line work and other exercises to build top line.


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## DrumRunner

I have to agree with everyone else. It sounds like your problem is coming from your tack which could be pain related. I would have the vet and possibly chiro could out to look at her before you do much more with her and stop using the saddle that is too little for her all together. Continuing to use it will just make your problem worse for you and your horse. 




mls said:


> Guess he didn't remember his own advice when he was bucked off during the road to the horse.


BAHAHAHA!! Love it! I watched that lovely video quite a few times..


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## AlexS

If your saddle is too small you should not ride her until you have a saddle that fits. It sounds like you have more work to do on the lunge line, so you can focus on that for now. I understand not having the money to do everything at once, but you should not do something that's just wrong for the horse because you don't think you have another option, you do, it's not riding. 

If she continues to do this once the saddle fits, I have a question, are you asking for the canter before you kick? Are you sitting for a few strides first so she has an idea that there is going to be a transition requested?


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## nursestephanie2

Pain may be an issue however I dont think its the main cause.

IMO, I dont think the horse has been properly trained to the canter cue and just bucks because the horse doesnt know any better. In the mind of the horse its like this ..." what the heck is that? I dont know ...get it OFF me" hence the bucking.


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## Freelance Cowgirl

I have my saddle picked out, and when my mom gets a check she's owed (which should be any day), I'm going to get my new saddle. I never liked the one I'm borrowing anyway. It's been raining a lot again lately so I haven't been able to work with her anyways. I rode her bareback, so I'll just stick with that and lunging until I get the new saddle.


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## JustDressageIt

Have you had a saddle fitter out to see if the saddle works with your horse's back? Even a $5000 saddle won't work if it doesn't fit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cinnys Whinny

JustDressageIt said:


> Have you had a saddle fitter out to see if the saddle works with your horse's back? Even a $5000 saddle won't work if it doesn't fit.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree completely, you need to make sure it fits right. I went through about 20 saddles before i found one that fit Cin properly and without hurting him. You don't want to waste your money on a saddle that doesn't fit right and you end up not being able to use.....


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## natisha

I've never been bucked off, but last time I accidentally jumped out of the saddle by reflexes. 

Read more: http://www.horseforum.com/western-riding/why-does-my-horse-buck-when-87509/page3/#ixzz1NhdY55o5

What does this mean? I've never heard of such a thing.

I have a horse that will throw a buck if someone bounces in the saddle. She does not like someone slamming down on her back.
Is your seat solid?


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## Saddlebag

This won't cost a dime. Have someone walk the horse in a straight line then do a fairly sharp turn to the left. Watch to see if the right front will step over the left front in a fairly smooth action or it there's a shuffly or hopping turn. Allow the horse to straighten and check the other side. This is one test for soreness. If there is a hoof issue a horse is more willing to trot than canter.


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## SorrelHorse

Natisha, my father does that same thing. When he thinks he's gonna get tossed he bails! 8D

I'll jump on the wagon and say its pain.


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## nursestephanie2

nursestephanie2 said:


> Pain may be an issue however I dont think its the main cause.
> 
> IMO, I dont think the horse has been properly trained to the canter cue and just bucks because the horse doesnt know any better. In the mind of the horse its like this ..." what the heck is that? I dont know ...get it OFF me" hence the bucking.


 
*cough* *cough*


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## natisha

SorrelHorse said:


> Natisha, my father does that same thing. When he thinks he's gonna get tossed he bails! 8D
> 
> I'll jump on the wagon and say its pain.


Wow, riding a buck seems much easier than leaping to the ground from a moving object with hooves. I'm not that graceful or lucky.


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## Cinnys Whinny

natisha said:


> Wow, riding a buck seems much easier than leaping to the ground from a moving object with hooves. I'm not that graceful or lucky.


It's not really about luck, it's really about learning how to do an emergency dismount. Some trainers (such as the one I had) wont' teach you anything else unless you can jump off on command at any gait..... Seems stupid at the time, but it has saved my big butt on a few occasions. IMO everyone should learn it so that they don't rely on luck if something bad goes down.


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## Barrel Baby

Those are really good reasons!


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## morabhobbyhorse

When I got Sienna I had to basically retrain her everything. I worked with her on the ground a month before I ever had a saddle on her. And it paid off until.......A friend of mine's sister was coming to visit, and I told my friend she could borrow Sienna so they could ride together. Her mare and Sienna were pasture mates. Well my friend used an English saddle on Sienna and she's high withered and when my friend tried to canter Sienna she got bucked off. I don't know what it is about the canter and a flat saddle on the withers but it HURTS, Sienna taught me that. The BO's saddle I used was a vintage, 1200 lb LOL saddle but your older saddles were made for high withered horses for some reason. I think someone told me it was because until the popularity of QH most horses had high withers. I have looked and looked since moving Sienna to another barn where I don't have that saddle available anymore to find one like it, and just got a tremendous deal on one. It of course is another all leather 1200 lb one, but it fits her. Now all I have to do is go back and teach brat horse it's not OK to buck at the canter, or trot, or showing me her 'stuff' lunging, LOL. I'd bet on saddle fit first, and then look at other things next.


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## natisha

Cinnys Whinny said:


> It's not really about luck, it's really about learning how to do an emergency dismount. Some trainers (such as the one I had) wont' teach you anything else unless you can jump off on command at any gait..... Seems stupid at the time, but it has saved my big butt on a few occasions. IMO everyone should learn it so that they don't rely on luck if something bad goes down.


Not stupid at all. I teach the ED too & can also do it but I've never _had _to. Maybe if I was on a run-away approaching a busy road & nothing else was working. 
I mainly teach it because many students have a fear of falling so that's all they think about until they learn the ED. 
Still, personally I'd ride out the buck. I have a fear of fracturing an ankle, only an ankle for some strange reason. (that's where I would need the luck)
I'm no spring chicken either & the ground is harder than it used to be.:wink:


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## morabhobbyhorse

Ain't that the truth. And I've gotten to ride Sienna so infrequently the last 6 months because of weather, she's just full of herself. The last time I rode her last summer, or the last we had good weather, I had her up at the mounting steps, standing perfectly, head reined inward toward me. Left foot in the stirrup, and she started to turn her hindquarters away from me. so instead of taking my foot out of the stirrup, and spending 15 minutes working with her on standing still, I lunged at her trying to get on, scared all hades out of her, was across the saddle on my belly and she bucked. Well I hit the arena. Scared the BO to death, but she had her back to me and didn't see what I did. I explained it was my fault, but she said she wanted to work with Sienna before i tried to ride again. Well that afternoon as I keep explaining (she'd known me two years and knew I don't have the greatest impulse control, LOL) She mounted from the ground on her and Sienna was fine. I can't do that because of my weight, and not the most flexible person in the world from staying home so much. This is the summer that ends!!!! I've already lost 20 lbs in 3 months, and hope to do the same the next three, plus work on my flexibility and overall shape. 
But I turned a one time incident into nightmare after the thing with my friend. I put her English saddle on Sienna and to make things worse, was using one piece rope reins on a rope halter. I tried repeatedly to get Sienna to canter and every time she bucked me off, couldn't keep her head up with just the halter and didn't quit until I had open sores on my hands. I switched her into her western tack and cantered her fine. A light bulb, way too late went off in my head about her withers and I've never used another English saddle on her. But she still will throw out a buck every once in a while to see if I'm paying attention, in essence i TAUGHT her bucking can get her out of work. I have a lot of ground to make up there.


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## ledge

Sounds like Sienna is acting like a spoiled little pony... the buck is due to her saying "i don't want to lope" the best solution is spank her butt when she bucks and keep her at a lope till she's wet and foamy.

Now she has learned bucking = trip back to barn

so you are now on track.... i'd suggest using a romel rein with a good popper at the end she gives a buck you spank and make her run.


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## Cinnys Whinny

ledge said:


> Sounds like Sienna is acting like a spoiled little pony... the buck is due to her saying "i don't want to lope" the best solution is spank her butt when she bucks and keep her at a lope till she's wet and foamy.
> 
> Now she has learned bucking = trip back to barn
> 
> so you are now on track.... i'd suggest using a romel rein with a good popper at the end she gives a buck you spank and make her run.


right, and if you do this BEFORE making sure there isn't a pain issue, especially because it has already been said the saddle is too small for the horse, you risk causing sores, lesions, as well as instilling even more fear of cantering in the horse because it will forever associate cantering with pain.


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## Freelance Cowgirl

I'm trying to get my mom to have a vet or/and a tack fitter over, but she won't hear it. She also says now that it's going to 90 degrees all week, I'm going to work her on the lunge several hours everyday. She showed horses and broke her mare's offspring herself, so I have to trust her opinion. Also she's the ring leader for me and my horse. :?

We rode her in an enclosed area and finally learned what she'll respond to with a cue. Kicking, like we were doing, makes me tense up and get angry. When we kiss at her she moves almost instantly. She never shows signs of bucking when she trots, and she automatically trots when I put her on the lunge line. My Ma tried to ride her herself and canter, but she bucked, though not as bad because my Ma kept her moving. She thinks it's just that she has never really been worked, and doesn't know she can run with us without trying to get us off. So I guess Ma's going to have me work at that, and if it doesn't work, I'll try to get her to go with everyone's tack/vet ideas.


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## SilverSpur

Freelance Cowgirl said:


> I'm trying to get my mom to have a vet or/and a tack fitter over, but she won't hear it. She also says now that it's going to 90 degrees all week, *I'm going to work her on the lunge several hours everyday.* She showed horses and broke her mare's offspring herself, so I have to trust her opinion. Also she's the ring leader for me and my horse. :?



WHAT! that has to be a typo, please tell me it is!


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## morabhobbyhorse

*Ledge, you are absolutely right,*

and I have no one to blame but myself. If I hadn't been so stubborn about trying to make her 'mind' in the English saddle when it was hurting her, and all my other crazy things I've done, like LUNGE at her when she's sideways, LOL I doubt she would've gotten to this point. But now I have a new place with an inside and outside arena and if she wants to pull that crap I can make her go faster. She's high energy but lazy if that makes any sense? Plus I'll work on the things I SCREWED up, like not positioning her right at the steps, a few times every time I ride, from both directions. I can sit a buck in a western saddle, I may be old but I'm not feeble, LOL but the combo of the rope reins and English saddle did me in.  

And I have the same question for the OP
YOU'RE GONNA WORK YOUR HORSE ON A LUNGE SEVERAL HOURS A DAY? Which no one would do even to an untouched Mustang on 'The Road To The Horse' and in 90 degree weather that's just craziness.


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## mls

Freelance Cowgirl said:


> I'm trying to get my mom to have a vet or/and a tack fitter over, but she won't hear it. She also says now that it's going to 90 degrees all week, *I'm going to work her on the lunge several hours everyday.*
> 
> 
> She showed horses and broke her mare's offspring herself, so I have to trust her opinion. Also she's the ring leader for me and my horse. :?


Why several hours?

I'm sure you realize, but not every horse is the same - thus not one single approach will work with every horse.


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## Cinnys Whinny

Oh wow, I'm not sure of anybody who lunges for several "hours" that may be a little much. Cinny is in relatively good condition and when I don't ride I still only lunge for 45 minutes max and even at that point he's ready to drop. I work mainly on transitions with him trot/halt/trot and trot/canter/trot mainly. 

If you do work for as long as you say on the lunge, be sure you give the horse some walking/rest time every half hour or so. 

you may also want to introduce some ground driving as well to break up the monotony.


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## aforred

How old is she? Horses have a limited attention span during which they can learn something. I'm assuming she's older than six, but even then, 30-45 minutes is all I would ask of her lunging. And if it's going to be hot, do it early in the morning, while it's still cool. You should also pay attention to how she acts during the lunging. If she's not conditioned, and it doesn't sound like she is, you should start with maybe 15 minutes and build up from there. The important thing is to get her to learn something.


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## jrcci

her hocks could be sore.


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## ledge

I break up sessions into hour segments... the only thing i do for hours is tie them and make them stand then its max 2 hours mostly its another hour after they have cooled down.

Like i said if they buck into the canter and its not a saddle or other health issue they are being a bit disrespectful, the way I've found and experience to fix it... spank them and make them run anyway it teaches them who the leader is and that behavior is not acceptable.


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