# genetic color question



## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yes. Being homozygous black, she will NEVER be able to produce a red based foal. Chestnut/Sorrel, Palomino, Red Dun, Cremello etc. Anything that is e/e. Your mare will only be able to produce E/e foals (or E/E depending on what she's bred to) So her resulting foal will always be black based like black, bay, grulla, perlino, buckskin, etc.


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## bjb (Jun 25, 2011)

Ok thanks thats extremly helpful... so is this how buckskin paints happen? Like breeding the mother with a buckskin stud?
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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

^^^ that depends on the buckskin stud and his color and agouti genes. If he is homozygous agouti, you would still only have about a 50% chance at a buckskin foal since he would only have one dilution gene.

The only way to guarantee a buckskin foal when the dam is a homozygous black tobiano is if the sire is a cremello (double dilute) and homozygous agouti.
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## bjb (Jun 25, 2011)

Ok one more question... can a palomino mare produce a grullo foal? We have a mare we are not 100% on her color. All we know is her dam was palomino. Some people have called her a buckskin, some a dun, and some a grullo. I personally think sooty buckskin but I dont know enough about genetics to say forsure. I'll try uploading a picture soon
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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Sure can. Depends on what the stud was.


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## bjb (Jun 25, 2011)

This is the mare. I have no clue what color the stud was
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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

With some horses, the only way to know for sure is to do genetic testing LOL 

But the question shouldn't be just what a palomino can produce, (which they are one dilute gene over a red coat) but what does the sire of the foal have to contribute?
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## bjb (Jun 25, 2011)

Right! Mostly I was curious what color everyone thinks this girl is. I asked the question the way I did because i was under the inpression that a palomino could never proclduce a grullo ..not sure why. Like i said I dont know much about genetics. Im glad I dont breed horses... its too confusing! LOL
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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

She looks like a sooty buckskin to me, but I am not a color genius by any means.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

While it is possible for a pali to produce a grullo, depending on the stud, that is not what you're horse is. That horse is a sooty buckskin.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Sooty buckskin. Possibly smoky brown/brownskin.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

I second sooty buckskin.


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## bjb (Jun 25, 2011)

Thanks guys! It was kinda confusing especially since she is registered as dun but she has no dorsal stripe
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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

I'm not sure why it is, but it seems as though the color the horse is registered as is mostly left up to the owner that fills in the registration application. My mom was so focused on having a black foal that she registered her black bay as a black. Everyone but her knew the baby was a bay the moment it was born and not a black. After a few years of harassing her, she finally changed the registered color to bay.
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## bjb (Jun 25, 2011)

I think what happened is she may have been born looking like a dun and her color changed as she got older. She was born on this farm and is now 20 years old. Certain times of year she does have a slight dark line down her back that could be mistaken for a dorsal stripe
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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

SunnyDraco said:


> I'm not sure why it is, but it seems as though the color the horse is registered as is mostly left up to the owner that fills in the registration application. My mom was so focused on having a black foal that she registered her black bay as a black. Everyone but her knew the baby was a bay the moment it was born and not a black. After a few years of harassing her, she finally changed the registered color to bay.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not always, I had a blue roan filly I tried to register as a blue roan, APHA changed it to gray.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

haviris said:


> Not always, I had a blue roan filly I tried to register as a blue roan, APHA changed it to gray.


Did the filly have a roan parent? I would imagine that the registry may prevent horses from being registered as a color that is impossible to achieve from the parents.
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## gingerscout (Jan 18, 2012)

for the last couple of years I have been trying to learn and figure out this breeding genetics and what everything is.. as it always intrigued me, but I didnt know much.. and all ive learned is its still confusing and gives me a headache..lol


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