# On the fence about fencing



## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Decisions, decisions...

We will build a 120 ft x 70 ft outdoor riding ring/sacrifice paddock with one board at the top for visibility (and to have a safe place to put horses in the event of a power outage) as well as 2-3 lines of Electrobraid on the inside to prevent chewing on the wood. 

The rest will be pastures with some permanent posts and the odd step-in if we need to do rotational grazing. 

Looking at 4x4" posts and 6x6" for corners and end posts (ie where gates will be hung) and a 2 x 6" board. All in 8' lengths that will go at least 3' in the ground.

My questions are: pressure-treated or cedar? Is a 2 x 6" board for top rail appropriate or should I go smaller/bigger? What are the advantages of getting round vs square posts? Can I get rough posts as long as I'm careful that there is nothing sticking out on the inside where the horses might rub? Hubby can go around with a chainsaw making everything smooth if need be. 

What about round posts squared off on the ends and attached to each other at the top for the top rail? 

What do I put on these for protection? I've read that even pressure-treated should be coated with something. But I don't want to paint because I don't want to deal with flaking paint all over the place and having to re-do the job every couple of years. My neighbor suggested a wood stain which makes sense.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

Pressure treated wood does not have to be painted or stained. It will rot over time especially when in contact with the ground. I don't have experience with square posts only round and have never been a fan of wood fencing (more maintenance then I care for) I would think that if you have a square post that unless you get it into the ground just right attaching any other fencing to it (like boards) could cause the fence to be uneven. On a round post you would not have this issue.

I for one have Centaur fencing and love it. We do run electric around our sacrifice lot and have T-posts with caps on the top. We purchased extra long T-posts to even further cut the chance of a horse bucking and coming down on the post - the step in posts will work their way out of the ground in the wind or wet soil so be cautious where you use them


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Thanks carshon - I hadn't thought of the issue with square posts. I think we're going to go with round cedar and square off the ends. 

Every website I've consulted says you have to put something on pressure-treated wood. And while there are some pt woods that are rated to be in contact with the ground, I'm afraid we don't have that kind of selection around here. There's one kind of pt wood and that's it. Most of it is used for decking. 

After discussing it with my husband, I do think we're going to use cedar. There is a mill up the road that can sell us the posts we need so it's easy to replace them as they age. But mostly, I'm leery about the environmental impact of pt wood. Not just the chemicals that might seep into the ground, but also the manufacturing process that uses so many chemicals. 

The Centaur fence is beautiful, but pricey and I've heard different things about how well they stand up to the elements. We live in a pretty extreme climate, with very hot summers and very cold winters as well as huge snowfalls. And since we can't get any of those supplies locally (everything would have to be shipped here), it would be a hassle every time we have to replace a stretch of fence. With wood, we can get it locally and if it's untreated, any rotted posts can just be disposed of naturally. Cedar has been used for centuries in this area as the #1 choice for fencing. There has to be a reason for that. Some of those old snake fences have been around a hundred years. 

Oh, and the step-ins would be used for rotational grazing to cut off parts of the pasture so they won't be in there long. We may use the odd one along the fence line between posts in places where the ground is uneven in the pasture, but the posts will be holding up the line. And again, the pasture will only be used for summer months. 

Would still love to have suggestions on how wide (and thick) the top board should be if anyone has any ideas.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

My board fencing is 1"x6"x16' lengths.
I have 4 board fencing.
Posts for my board fencing are set at 6'6" apart, center to center. We did have to cut boards to fit correctly and rotate the end location for strength of fence, but no board went to waste...there are always projects that need a board of this size. :wink:
We used pt round fence posts 3.5" -4" in diameter.
Making sure each post was straight before back-filling the hole in, we _screwed_ the boards to the posts.
We have other fencing that is wire fencing, heavy duty wire with small enough holes no hoof will get through but it is not "horse fencing" by definition so not as expensive to buy.
On top of that fencing we have a top-board...1"x6"x16' boards. We used the same kind of boards as the 4 board fence sections. 
With the board on top of the wire fence our posts are 8' apart. Butted end to end, screwed into the posts. 
We used coated, non-rusting screws 3" or 3.5" long...were expensive to buy but done once and so far not again. We can also easily replace/remove sections by unscrewing those screws if we need to.
_Again, screwed on *not* nailed_...boards sits to the inside of the paddocks so if the horses push against it they push against a post not pop the board! Many do it the other way for "aesthetics" and then have loose horses where they don't belong.
Our fence height is 54" to the top of the board and we left a little post {3"} in case we decided we needed electric wire to keep the beavers away {we did not!}....this height also discourages nibbling the top rail as it is not a comfortable grab, rip & tear or chewing height for them.
With this height fence it keeps near any size horse from putting their head over reaching long and low for that bade of grass, yet they can easily come over for a scratch and pat session. Better though is it discourages those passing by from stopping to pet the horsey as it is not encouraging the fence on most peoples line of sight...
My horses have ranged in height from 14.2 through 16.2 and all could put their head over yet had respect for it being there.
That height also made my h/j think about jumping out at his will...
My fence has been up now since 2003 with absolutely no issue of rotted posts or boards, wire needing replaced.
I have done "0" maintenance to it of paint or staining and it has weathered to a beautiful silvery grey shade of color....
I don't worry about power outages either....

Enjoy that project.
:runninghorse2:....


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Thanks horselovinguy! Definitely no nails to be used in our fencing. Too easy to split the board and come out. 

Sounds like our height will be about the same as yours - posts should stick out of the ground to a 5 ft height so top board will be around 4.5 ft (54"). Harley is a jumper so although he is small, he's escaped low fencing before. 

Can I ask why you put the posts 6.6' apart rather than 8 ft like you did everywhere else? Were you worried about sagging? We're thinking of using 2 x 6" boards to avoid sagging, but want to set them 8' apart for the riding area/sacrifice paddock.

You didn't say what kind of wood you used... pressure-treated or not? Cedar? After 13 years, no maintenance, that sounds pretty good to me!


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

I think 2" x6" boards are overkill for a fence topper. I use those for my stall walls because they take abuse. The top rail of a fence has lots less pressure put on it, plus they are expensive. You could save a lot using 1" x 4'' top boards & they will look just as nice.

I suggest gates, more gates than you think you'd ever use because there will be times you wished you had a gate "right there."


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

natisha said:


> I think 2" x6" boards are overkill for a fence topper. I use those for my stall walls because they take abuse. The top rail of a fence has lots less pressure put on it, plus they are expensive. You could save a lot using 1" x 4'' top boards & they will look just as nice.
> 
> I suggest gates, more gates than you think you'd ever use because there will be times you wished you had a gate "right there."


Thanks natisha! We worried that 1" thick boards would sag more... has anyone tried this? I agree though, that 4" wide is probably enough since we just want them as a sight line. There will be Electrobraid on the inside of them. 

Yes, gates! I am planning on 5 for less than two acres. But there will be one paddock and two grazing areas and we need to get the tractor back and forth to move manure, etc. Not sure how the gates work with Electrobraid. Do you have to use the connectors at every gate? I assume so, otherwise you would have an interruption in the electric charge at each gate.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Acadianartist said:


> Thanks horselovinguy! Definitely no nails to be used in our fencing. Too easy to split the board and come out.
> 
> Sounds like our height will be about the same as yours - posts should stick out of the ground to a 5 ft height so top board will be around 4.5 ft (54"). Harley is a jumper so although he is small, he's escaped low fencing before.
> 
> ...


We were advised to space at this spacing for strength on our 4 board fence. Going longer distances with thinner boards they can sag {but don't always}. We have actually seen 2" boards sag...watch which way the growth rings are when you put the fence together.
We paid someone to do our perimeter which is the wire. We then added the top board.
We ourselves did our cross-fencing 4 board and chose less post distance.
We also wanted to do what the cattleman in the area do for fencing for aesthetics of the entry drive in to the property...in our case though we look out the back of the house and see our horse fencing...just pretty to look at in morning sunrise :redface:...
Seriously though...if we ever needed to sell our place it would sell easier with "cattle-strength" fencing already in place. Only need a strand or two of barbed wire added the way it is, if that.

All our fencing is pt....posts and boards.
Made by a company called Yellawood.
It is some sort of bug resistant pine, strong and hearty for southern climates.
:runninghorse2:....


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

horselovinguy said:


> We were advised to space at this spacing for strength on our 4 board fence. Going longer distances with thinner boards they can sag {but don't always}. We have actually seen 2" boards sag...watch which way the growth rings are when you put the fence together.
> We paid someone to do our perimeter which is the wire. We then added the top board.
> We ourselves did our cross-fencing 4 board and chose less post distance.
> We also wanted to do what the cattleman in the area do for fencing for aesthetics of the entry drive in to the property...in our case though we look out the back of the house and see our horse fencing...just pretty to look at in morning sunrise :redface:...
> ...


Thanks for the details! Unfortunately, all the pt wood available in this area is fir or spruce. I have reservations about the durability of those species. It sounds like yours is perfect for your area.


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

Just thought i'd put in my 2 cents on fencing. We are in the lengthy (and expensive) process of replacing all the barbed wire at our place. Last summer started with a small portion and hope to finish a lot of it this year. 

Because we are on a budget, but wanted the property to look nice (and natural), and lower maintenance, we have chosen to use 2"x6"x 16' rough cut lumber as our 'rails'. It is cheaper than the round rails and pt lumber, but very durable and hardy. We know we will need to replace boards in time, but it will take a lot of time for those to rot. For our posts, we are using 6" round posts. we placed the posts in 8' sections. We are using lag bolts to screw in the boards to the fence posts, and have done 3 boards per section. 

I am also a fan of gates. So far I a have 2 paddocks and have used 4 gates. We will likely be putting in at least 2 more. 

Knock on wood, the horses haven't started chewing the top boards yet. I wouldn't mind putting hot wire along the top, but right now it isn't a priority. I'm not keeping horses separate that would fight over the fences...and they seem to have enough space to graze & play that they haven't felt the need to knock themselves out with chewing the fence boards. (yet).


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Acadianartist said:


> Thanks natisha! We worried that 1" thick boards would sag more... has anyone tried this? I agree though, that 4" wide is probably enough since we just want them as a sight line. There will be Electrobraid on the inside of them.
> 
> Yes, gates! I am planning on 5 for less than two acres. But there will be one paddock and two grazing areas and we need to get the tractor back and forth to move manure, etc. Not sure how the gates work with Electrobraid. Do you have to use the connectors at every gate? I assume so, otherwise you would have an interruption in the electric charge at each gate.


Yep, connectors at each side of the gate with a gate handle at one of both ends.


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## mred (Jan 7, 2015)

In the south most wood is pt pine. I also used 2x6x16 with alt. joints and posts 8 foot apart. And I put a brace tieing the three boards together between every set of posts. Boards screwed onto the inside. Down here the 2x6 is about the same as a 1 1/4 x 6 deck board.


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## Jan1975 (Sep 7, 2015)

I don't know much about horse fencing, but our cedar fence in our backyard lasted about 12 years before we had to start replacing rotten sections. I don't think that was too bad. We haven't had to replace it all, either, just certain boards. The posts are pressure treated and those did rot in the ground, but once again not for about 11-12 years, and also not all of them. We stained ours, but I think that was just as much for cosmetic reasons as anything. The stain lasts 3-4 years and doesn't really flake off.


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## mred (Jan 7, 2015)

We also used 6x6 on the corners and gate posts.
I think if I retreat with Thompson's or some other water seal, I will get over 20 years from the fence.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

One thing to mention about gates, if you are going to have machinery going through the gates, make sure the gate is wide enough to accommodate any machinery, tractors, cultivators, or hay wagons that you might find you need to get through a gateway. Sometime people hire a farmer to come over to do some work in the pasture and find the gate is too narrow to get through.
If you are having small paddocks that the horses will graze down like a sacrifice area, the horses are bound to try to reach any grass on the outside, either over/under wire fences or reaching through board fences so it might be a good idea to have an electric wire to help keep them out of the fences.
I have had horses in just about every kind of fencing in my life and over time I found that with whatever fence I had, I ended up enforcing it with an electric wire, sometimes just for my peace of mind when I was away all day and I didn't have to worry about anybody getting hurt in the fence.

So exciting for you, planning all this


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Woodhaven said:


> One thing to mention about gates, if you are going to have machinery going through the gates, make sure the gate is wide enough to accommodate any machinery, tractors, cultivators, or hay wagons that you might find you need to get through a gateway. Sometime people hire a farmer to come over to do some work in the pasture and find the gate is too narrow to get through.
> If you are having small paddocks that the horses will graze down like a sacrifice area, the horses are bound to try to reach any grass on the outside, either over/under wire fences or reaching through board fences so it might be a good idea to have an electric wire to help keep them out of the fences.
> I have had horses in just about every kind of fencing in my life and over time I found that with whatever fence I had, I ended up enforcing it with an electric wire, sometimes just for my peace of mind when I was away all day and I didn't have to worry about anybody getting hurt in the fence.
> 
> So exciting for you, planning all this


Check and check! 

We will be doing all the work ourselves with my husband's trusty antique Ford tractor. We have every attachment you can imagine for it. We've even simplified things by lining up gates so there is clear path for the tractor to get to the temporary manure pile (the one we use every day) and haul the poop away to our permanent composting manure piles on a lower part of the property. It will all be in one straight line through two gates. And of course there will be entry points to each pasture/paddock area (sometimes two). Hubby is out measuring the widest piece of equipment as I write this. We will need at least an 8 ft gate, maybe 10 (though I hesitate to go too wide because of sagging). 

And yes to the electric wire throughout. Including inside the part of the fence that has a top board. Otherwise, they will inevitably lean and push to reach the green grass on the other side and our fence will not last very long.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Gates....
I would do nothing less than a 12' wide.
You need pivot room sometimes and even though "lined up" might prove difficult if the driver of vehicle is not good judging distances...
A horse trailer arriving can be 8' wide...
The large hay delivery truck is easily 8' wide with hay bales not hanging slightly over the sides as they do...10', it is just to snug from not rubbing, ripping truck and destroying your fence..._
{Don't make my mistake:icon_rolleyes:...do 12' wide or a combination of gate widths to make 12' wide!! Thankfully I have a 14' gate too and use it all the time.}_
For sag..a small brick put under the end stops sag and is easy to lift and pull off since you must open and undo the chain anyhow...the gates are light to lift, even the longer ones.
I would suggest you also do a walk-through gate in addition to drive-through....4' or 6' wide for human and a led horse.
You can control the action of the horse you lead going through that size and more importantly control the horse you _do not_ want following you through that gated area too.
:runninghorse2:....
_jmo..._


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## mred (Jan 7, 2015)

Agree, on the gates. I use 12' everywhere and have 4' to the outside on every paddock. I use a gate latch that supports the latch end of the gate. The latch is about $27 at TSC but I love them. They latch their self and support that end of the gate. They are listed as being made by Speeco.


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## Tazmanian Devil (Oct 11, 2008)

horselovinguy said:


> Gates....
> I would do nothing less than a 12' wide.
> 
> <snip>
> ...




Both excellent ideas. On the 12' gate, I would suggest doing it as 2 x 6 foot sections. A 12 foot gate section is hard on the support posts and may sag over time.


For fencing itself, you may want to check out wire fencing. I realize it may not work well for everyone. It is less expensive than wood and requires less overall maintenance/upkeep. It also allows for fewer posts. Mine are spaces 10 or 12 feet apart (can't recall exact spacing).

Here is an example showing a section of my arena fencing.


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