# Saddles: Traditional solid trees, flex tree, or treeless



## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

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Solid Trees are the way to go, they are tried and true.

Flex Trees and Treeless are marketing gimmicks IMO, while for certain Horses and Certain people they have their place and provide a small benefit, but it is very limited. A proper fit and good pad provide the same comfort level for the Horse as the advertising promises for treeless and Flex Trees.

A common misconception is that treeless and flex trees fit a variety of different sized Horses, they do not.
If this was true and you could buy 1 Saddle to fit 4 or 5 different Horses then Solid Tree Saddles would become obsolete, unfortunately there is no Utopia :lol:

Barrel Saddle and Trail Saddle are closer than most people think, the main difference is many Barrel Saddles have rawhide wrapped Horns which make them smaller in diameter, some are actually an inch taller than a Trail Horn also, most Barrel saddle have a Higher Cantle and many have rough out jockies and fenders. The actual bars and fit to the Horse are the same.

Hope that helps.


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

Thank you SouthernTrailsGA! this explains a lot. So how would i go about figuring the bar size for my mare 'full QH compared to semi QH' I always get confused on how to do this. Then i shall stick to tried and true solid treed saddles.  I'll also be getting special saddle pads like gel orthopedic to help ease any pressure points. Would you have any recommendations?? Thanks again!!


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

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Here is a link to some templates that will give you an idea of what size tree to use

http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/thesaddleshop/template-simple.pdf

If you have a good fitting Saddle, I prefer a solid Wool pad, either 3/4" thick or 1" think.

I am not a fan of all those gel or air pads either 


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I think treeless is mostly a gimmick. I think flex trees have their place, if you understand what they do. I'll offer my THEORY on what they do, although I'm not a saddle maker:

50 years ago, a tree was made of wood and leather. The wood was pine because pine flexed a little with the movement of the horse. Not a lot, but it wasn't as heavy and rigid as oak would have been. The leather also had some give, but it wasn't as strong and weather proof as fiberglass.

When fiberglass wrapping became the norm, the trees became more rigid. Again, we aren't talking about inches of movement, just a little, small fraction of an inch give under the pressure of riding. That is strong, and it works fine for most horses & riders. But with time, there has been increasing emphasis on horse 'sports'. Instead of trail riding being the norm, it is becoming the norm to ride in an arena and to repeat the same movements hundreds of times in an hour to train the horse for a sport. And a saddle that fits OK for 4 hours of trail riding may not work so well for a horse training in 'western dressage' or doing a barrel pattern again & again, or using dressage to get the horse in shape for something else.

I think the tiny flex allowed by the new flex saddles is an attempt to get back to what the saddle would do when it was pine & leather. It allows a manufacturer to use a ralide tree or a wood & fiberglass tree that performs like the old saddles made by hand did. At least, in theory.

Unless someone is competing in sports and riding the horse all the time (as in 6 times/week in intensive training), I think it is overrated. I feel like I do when I see the constant response to 'get a saddle fitter'. Hmm...what did folks do for the hundreds of years before there were saddle fitters, or those of us who live hundreds of miles from the nearest saddle fitter? A poor fitting saddle can screw up a horse. My Appy has white spots on his shoulders and a scar on his withers where a ranch used him with a too wide saddle. But it isn't rocket science. By breeding he is 3/4 Arabian and has high withers, and a wide full QH bar saddle didn't fit...golly! That would take about 5 seconds to figure out!

I wouldn't pay more for a flex tree saddle, but I wouldn't reject one, either. I doubt most horses ridden by most riders can tell the difference. I would NOT buy a treeless saddle, because I've carried backpacks with frames, and some without, and MY back prefers a frame to support and distribute the weight!

All just IMHO. I took up riding 4 years ago, and spent too much time trying to find the "Magic Saddle" that would improve my riding. I'm also still looking for the "Magic Bit"! I settled on an Aussie-style saddle and a single joint snaffle as best for me & my horse. How I ride has far more effect than my saddle, and since your horse is doing fine, I'd guess your riding is OK too. 

Although if I could find a barrel racing saddle that fit her short back, I wouldn't mind switching to a western saddle...but it isn't in my budget right now. It seems the best saddle is the one you want to buy next!


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

Thank you BSMS. I never thought of it that way before.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

I ride only in treeless saddles on my horse. He prefers them. So do I. Treed saddles are VERY uncomfortable to me - all I feel is the tree. My horse will not walk on under saddle in a treed saddle and in hand he pins his ears and takes short stabby steps. This is with various brands of treed saddles with a saddle fitter present who each time said the saddles were excellent fits.

People have a hard time turning away from things that seem normal. It doesn't mean that treeless saddles are awful.

Yes they certainly can cause sore backs - but so can treed saddles. You have to consider your padding a little more with a treed saddle but otherwise, what's to dislike? They're comfy and secure and well...they're comfy!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

Thank you DA. I heard that treeless saddles slip around a lot even when tight. My mare prefers i ride her bareback, so i considered a treeless saddle for her. I'm all about change, i like new and different things. I'm just so used to a treed saddle, that its hard to change from one.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

It's one of those "it depends" things. I know a LOT of treeless riders. Some can't mount from the ground, some can. Some of those riders can't mount from the ground regardless of the type of saddle! I can mount from the ground mostly fine (I've got short legs) but the saddle doesn't slip. You can also modify the way you mount to reduce or prevent slippage - I have the link on my home computer if you're curious.

Personally, I find that slippage is more affected or caused by the pad than the saddle. There's only two horses that I know of with extreme saddle pad slippage and its literally just the pad. They have so much shoulder action the pad gets shoved out from under the saddle. Slippage is also affected by how you ride. You don't have a tree to save you and to brace against, so you must have a good seat. If you don't, it's actually not that the saddle is slipping but that you're pushing it out of place. It takes a few rides to get used to it but if you have a weakness in your balance it will be known in short order!

Some saddles are more structured and fit like a treed saddle such that you don't need a special pad. Some saddles are less structured and ride closer to a bareback pad in feel so need a "special" pad that provides spinal clearance. I have one of both at the moment and I'm leaning towards the less structured one the more I ride in it.

This is one of those things were you simply can't say blanket statements. People even bash the eBay saddles and frankly, my cheapie eBay saddle has held up very well. I didn't get a second saddle from the same place because I wanted to own a "nice" saddle.

If you're curious, I do all kinds of things in a treeless saddle. In a cheap eBay saddle at that. I have a demo saddle on trial for a few more days but up until last week, it's been el cheapo eBay saddle for over a year and a half.

Sorry for the book! Feel free to ask more questions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

DA have you barrel raced in a treeless saddle?? I found one in a catalog, and i really like even though its on the $$$$ side. I would love to see the site to help eliminate slippage! Does it feel different with a saddle pad underneath? I rode my old horse one time with a blanket tied down, and talk about major slippage, i fell right off and he walked right into the barn. LOL The blanket even came off!! I've never tried a bareback pad. I've heard a few interesting stories about them too. 
Thank you!


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Well....sort of. If you count us cantering a pattern in an English treeless saddle with me in two point, then yes I have! We do dressage, jumping, obstacle course - that kind of thing. Haven't had any intro to barrel or pole clinics but I am going to sign up when I can - and to in my English saddle.

Bon Marshall would be the place you want to look: Sports Saddle, Inc. :: Bob Marshall Treeless Saddles

I will send you the mounting link tonight.

The two horses in question with the shoulders are owned by the same lady. One is a Missouri Fox Trotter and the other is a morganxqh. I used to find her saddle pads all over the trails because they would just push them out from under the saddle. Weirdest thing I ever saw!

My structured saddle, like I said can be used with a plain regular pad. But also because its an English saddle that does mean it doesn't need a pad at all.

My less structured (demo) saddle does need a pad to provide a bit more spinal clearance than it gives on its own. It feels very similar to bareback - I can feel a LOT Of my horse's movement. Not as much as I can bareback, and not as much as with a bareback pad, but I definitely feel him and its nice when I can feel him tense up in the body before it escalates into another issue.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

If the horse has high withers, the it will be narrow behind the shoulder blades. Usually semi fit this build. I'd look for a saddle with what is called a barrel front as it allows more room for the withers. Any saddle with sharp forks are too low. Any saddle with the Little Wonder tree likely won't fit. It comes in the three configurations with sharp forks. Ralide makes this tree. Google Ralide. They have an excellent website that displays all the trees they make, including measurements.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

When considering a treeless saddle think about the small area just behind the base of the withers that bears the weight of the riders legs, all the weight if the rider does a posting trot. Same with the girth. The tree distributes the pressure on the horse's back, reducing the lbs per square inch factor. There are horses with less desirable conformation in which finding a saddle to fit fairly well is nigh on to impossible and this is where a treeless may work. But so will a much cheaper bareback pad as long as there are no stirrups. Again, too much weight in a small area. When riding with a bareback pad riders move around a lot more than with a saddle, thus easing the pressure of the pelvic bones. JMO.


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## Catpeedontherug (Oct 23, 2012)

as far as the pad slippage goes on the treeless...I poked a hole in the pad up near the where it would sit on the withers, looped a string through, and I tie it to my saddle horn. Pad stays in place.

Yes, mounting is harder with a treeless, but not impossible. 
Winter riding is nice in a treeless because it radiates so much heat! love it!
And, my mare has really responded nicely to the Bob Marshall Sport Saddle.
Big fan!


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

Most of what you see and hear about saddles and saddle fit these days, in my opinion, is Bull S%^$, and a marketing gimmick designed to make people who are unsure about how saddles work feel nervous or apprehensive about saddles and fitting and hopefully (hopefully for the marketing people) buy their magic fix all saddle. 
I was extraordinarily lucky in that they guy who taught me to ride and train horses properly is also a saddler. As a kid, from about the age of 12 to 17-18 I’d spend hours sitting in his saddle workshop watching and learning everything I could. He taught me most of what I know about saddles and how to almost build one (I never got to learn how to build the seat properly though I watched him do it plenty) so I can build a Charro saddle, which I like to do. And when I was a ringer (cowboy) I bought three saddles from him (2 for me one for my brother), and they are the best three saddles I have ever seen.
What he always taught me is that you need to get a saddle that fits the TYPE of horse you ride, not THE horse you ride. Old style trees have always been the best, wood wrapped in rawhide (sorry bsms, not leather). He always preferred hoop pine bars and maple cantle forks. As bsms said these types of trees allow flexibility. And the rawhide, though flexible has very high strength. In terms of building the saddle on the tree he always taught me that wood + rawhide always outlasts, well, fibreglass was the alternative back then, I don’t think they had invented ralyde or whatever it is, and holds the nails and screws that you use in saddle construction better than fibreglass. The if the tree fits the type of horse you ride well it will find where it sits by itself and stay there (I could ride all day in my wade without a cinch working cattle and it wouldn’t move a bit, unless I did). Also the only time a saddle has absolute contact over a horses back is if its standing on flat level ground with weight evenly distributed, their back is constantly moving under them otherwise what this means is that you don’t necessarily want a saddle that completely distributes weight evenly all over (this is impossible since the horses back always moves) you need a tree that allows for the maximum distribution of weight while allowing for maximum freedom of movement.
I have carried that around with me for years and a month or so ago I found this website from a tree maker in Canada and they say pretty much the same stuff as my friend taught me, it’s worth a read.
http://www.rodnikkel.com/content/index.php
Ultimately a good custom made saddle will be better than anything off the shelf.


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

Thank you everyone!  This is all great to know! And i will definitely be continuing reading more about saddles. I"m in contact with 2 custom saddle companies. I will probably still try a treeless to see how i like it, and my horse. Thank you all very much, i'm off to check out your posted links!!


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Saddlebag said:


> If the horse has high withers, the it will be narrow behind the shoulder blades...


Not if it is an Arabian. While some lines of Arabians have no wither, others have a high wither.

There are at least 3 measurements to the front that are important: How high the front rises, how wide it is measured horizontally, and how flat the angle is where the saddle meets the horse. Lots of Arabians need a high front, narrow in horizontal width but with a flat angle. Tough to find saddles like that, though...:evil:


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

bsms said:


> Not if it is an Arabian. While some lines of Arabians have no wither, others have a high wither.
> 
> There are at least 3 measurements to the front that are important: How high the front rises, how wide it is measured horizontally, and how flat the angle is where the saddle meets the horse. Lots of Arabians need a high front, narrow in horizontal width but with a flat angle. Tough to find saddles like that, though...:evil:



Treeeeeleeessssssss 
Cccoommmmmme ttooooo theeeee daaaaaarrrrrrrrrrk ssssssiiiiiiiddddde
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

OK, when I made reference it was about the three most common trees that are marketed. The arabian doesn't fall into that category, nor do the various gaited.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Saddlebag said:


> OK, when I made reference it was about the three most common trees that are marketed...


Understood. I guess I'm just frustrated. I'd like to use a western saddle on my mare, but finding one that really fits her and doesn't interfere with her movement isn't easy.



DancingArabian said:


> Treeeeeleeessssssss
> Cccoommmmmme ttooooo theeeee daaaaaarrrrrrrrrrk ssssssiiiiiiiddddde
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



:lol::lol:

Sorry. I've carried a frameless pack on my back, and I prefer a frame. Thankfully, the Australians developed a saddle that works well for Mia & I...although I would like a western saddle. :?


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

bsms said:


> Understood. I guess I'm just frustrated. I'd like to use a western saddle on my mare, but finding one that really fits her and doesn't interfere with her movement isn't easy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm the opposite - how funny! When I've used frame packs, all I could feel was the frame and I couldn't get comfortable. The weight was definitely spread around better the - I will concede that point.

Just goes to show how we're all different 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catpeedontherug (Oct 23, 2012)

DancingArabian said:


> I'm the opposite - how funny! When I've used frame packs, all I could feel was the frame and I couldn't get comfortable. The weight was definitely spread around better the - I will concede that point.
> 
> Just goes to show how we're all different
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm with you DA~ when I backpack, I always wear my frameless pack. My internal frame collects dust. 

(I, too, ride treeless and LUV it)


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

DancingArabian said:


> Treeeeeleeessssssss
> Cccoommmmmme ttooooo theeeee daaaaaarrrrrrrrrrk ssssssiiiiiiiddddde
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


DA LOL i'm working on it!! Ha ha!!:lol:
Thank you all for your input and crafty ideas about how to stop pad slipping. :wink:


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

bsms said:


> Thankfully, the Australians developed a saddle that works well for Mia & I...although I would like a western saddle. :?


What kind of Australian Saddle do you have?? I've always wanted one, but didn't know anyone in my area who owned one to get their opinions. How do you like it?? 
Thanks!!


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

Don’t mean to but in on Bsms but I grew up riding in an Australian saddle and personally I think they are pretty ordinary; admittedly the way they set you up is no good for my riding style, so thats a big part of it. But in general there are three kinds. 1) traditional style, which from his photos I think Bsms has, these are hair lined, and as long as they are relined when they need it they are not too bad on a horses back, 2) the counter lined traditional ones, they are more like a western saddle underneath and I have hardly ever seen a good off the shelf one Id buy. 3) “half breed” saddles, that are like a cross between a western saddle and an Australian stock saddle; these ones are all the rage here these days and you can get good ones and bad ones. Like most things, you have to pay for quality and a good one can run to about 3 to 4 thousand these days from some saddlers. If you like to ride with your heels under you, they may not be your best option.


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

Oh yeah, Id steer clear of any Australian stock saddles called a Barcoo Poley, I have NEVER seen one yet that actually fit a horse.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

(Note: I don't mount my horse this way when I mount from the ground. Not necessary for us. However, I know several people that do with success.)

Icelandic Saddle Fitting

*Mounting Your Horse
The Icelandic Way*

Since ground mounting can be a challenge with some treeless saddles, the following way of mounting has proven to be very helpful remedying this issue in most situations. I recommend mounting from a mounting block, fence, boulder, or just higher ground whenever possible when using ANY saddle, treed or treeless, to minimize pull on your horse’s back and to avoid twisting your saddle. Even treeless saddles can be pulled into asymmetry by repeated ground mounting, especially when mounting from the same side, over time. 
The following is excerpted by permission from ‘*The Joy of Icelandics*’ by Christine Schwartz. This is a great book in general and the information can be applied to all gaited horses, not just Icelandics.
Believe it of not, once you get the hang of mounting the Icelandic way you can actually do it without a girth. When doing it correctly you are always in balance making the maneuver much easier for yourself and the horse.
Stand beside your horse facing front, your inside hip touching the saddle flap. To make things less confusing, we will mount from the left. Hold your reins as if you were already riding, which means the right rein in the right hand, the left rein in the left hand with light contact to the horse’s mouth.







Now place your right hand with the rein onto the saddle, just below the manufacturer’s button where the suede leather of the knee roll begins; or hold the off side stirrup leather, whichever is more comfortable. Your left hand guides your left foot into the stirrups and then, again still holding the rein, grab a hold of the horse’s mane about 1/3 up the horse’s neck. As your push yourself up off the ground with your right leg you are also transferring your weight into your right hand and with a little practice you will notice the saddle does not slip. Gently lift your right leg over the horse’s croup and slowly lower yourself into the saddle. 







To dismount just reverse the order, or lift both feet out of the stirrups and swing off. When riding a nervous or young horse or one that I don’t know, I will always step off and I am careful to take my right foot SLOWLY out of the stirrup, ensuring it does not bump against the horse’s side.
Practice mounting and dismounting from both sides and you will notice that on some horses it is easier to mount from the left. Strange? Not really. Most horses (like humans) are not built perfectly symmetrical and one side is lower than the other. It is easier to mount from the horse’s higher side, since we have a tendency to pull the saddle towards the lower side.


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

Thanks this is really good to know!!! 
I will keep an eye out for specific Australian saddles, and compare!!!


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

OK, here is my Aussie-style saddle:



















Why do I like it?

1 - It fits my horse. My Arabian mare has a pretty short back. My western Circle Y Arabian saddle is 26.5" long, and sits far enough back that it puts pressure on her loins. Not a lot, and she will tolerate it, but she moves much more willingly at speed if the saddle is shorter. I would LIKE to use a western saddle, but finding one that would fit her is tough. And the folks who make Aussie-style saddles will custom fit the saddle for your horse.

Notice I said "Australian style". The real, made in Australia saddles start at about $3000. I paid $750 for mine. After 2 years of use, it is better than when I bought it.

2 - I have the option of using a Wintec pad under the saddle. I normally do not...switched to using a folded wool pony pad under the front. But all my horses ride well with a Wintec pad. In fact, with our mustang pony, we use one under our Abetta western saddle. The original Abetta saddle is short enough (22-23 inches long) and I've thought about buying one for Mia.

3 - When the horse hits the fan, I want all the help I can get. I really like riding in my Bates english saddle, but Mia is still a work in progress. The stereotypes of an Arabian mare? She's an advertisement for them. We're currently working on going solo into the desert. She is vastly better than she once was. A year ago, going solo on a lead line for 100 yards was all she could do without melting down. We're now going 1-1.5 miles out, then returning. So progress.

But she still jumps sideways. She hasn't done any big bolts, but she has 'bolted' for 30-50 yards, without warning. She sometimes does the "OMG Crouch" from a trot.

And everywhere I ride, there are large rocks and cactus. Even with a helmet, if I come off, the injury would probably be big. Breaking my back would be possible, and being tossed into a cholla cactus possible:










I find the Australian style saddle the most secure I've ridden in. When your horse spins around, the poleys (mickey mouse ears) in the front slam into your thighs and spin your hips around. It is a lot easier to stay in the saddle if your hips stay aligned with the saddle! If the horse bolts, you can support your thighs with the poleys and put your hands down low and PULL. I'm 180 lbs, and I CAN out muscle her if I need to.

A little while ago, I had her canter in front of Trooper. The sound of Trooper cantering behind her set her off, and we galloped down the dirt path. That was ok for a while, but there is a 90 deg bend at the end, with cactus beyond. She wasn't interested in my input, so I braced and used a pulley stop. She stopped.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFt-yJhVZg8

A better rider might look down on wanting help from the saddle. I'm not a better rider, and I'm 54, and rocks hurt and cactus would hurt so I want help!

4 - Forward seat. I like riding with a long leg. I don't jump. But my horses move better with a forward seat than a traditional seat. I like the western style of riding, but my horse moves faster, farther and happier with a forward seat. I can't handle a 3 hour ride in a forward seat, but it is OK to compromise for long rides.










I switch to a forward seat for speed even in a western saddle, but I tend to fight the saddle.

In my never ending quest for the perfect saddle & tack, I'm tempted by this saddle:










It is made by the same folks who made mine, but it is smaller and lighter with shorter flaps. It is a mono-flap design...don't know if I would like or dislike that part:










As always though, there is no perfect tack or saddle. But there are saddles that meet a person or horse's needs better than others. The Australian-style saddle does a lot of good things for me & my horse. :wink:

Note - they don't really put your heels under you, which is fine by me. I prefer my heels to be at my belt buckle, which is what the British cavalry called for in the 1800s. The picture is about 3 years old, but I tend to have my legs like this - notice the western stirrups :wink::










It gives me the option of easily shifting forward:


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

It's odd I guess, or it seems odd to me, but they were never called poleys till those saddles started to gain some traction in the US. They are knee pads, poley refers to the fact that most of them don’t have a horn, and are, thus, poley saddles, the way cattle that have been de-horned or without horns are poley. And if you really want to rig it up Australian style change where you have the buckle on the stirrup leather to the other side of the stirrup and down just above where the leather goes through the stirrup.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I used to have my stirrup leathers that way. Forget why I switched back...


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

Whatever suits you best is best, Personally I cant stand them, I remember as a kid never having a bit of hair on the inside of my calf muscles because it would always get ripped out or rubbed off from the leathers; that was even with jeans or moleskins on.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

seems to me a flex tree, would just simply flex to its widest setting when I sat on it. SO I put a saddle on a horse, looks like fit is perfect, Then I climb my big butt on, and now I have a wide tree saddle.


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

Wow BSMS! Your saddle is very nice, and looks comfy compared to mine LOL. I've had it for 12 years now. I don't know what it is with my mare's build, nothing i own or my husband owns will fit her, and if it does it shifts, which still means it doesn't quite fit properly. I drives me crazy, since she is 5 i would like to start under saddle work, but with nothing fitting its quite a challenge. :? I really appreciate your input and advice. Yours too AndrewPL!







Here she is wearing my saddle. I know it is sitting too far back, and i tried moving it forward, it doesn't work. Its just too wide for her, and makes her uncomfortable. :-| 
Thanks again!! 
If you look closely, its actually tipping forward on her withers and it wasn't even that tight, i just tightened it enough to stay put.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Have you considered endurance models of saddles?

This is a high end (ie expensive) model: Ansur Endeavor Saddle | Ansur® Saddlery


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

BSMS, those cactus look like they might really do some damage. :shock:


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

In the front, saddle width can mean two things - how wide it is measured with a horizontal ruler, and how flat the angle is measured from the center of the gullet to the tips of the front of the tree. My saddle is actually too wide for Mia when measured horizontally. To fill in the gap, I pad it with either a pony pad folded in half or a Wintec pad with the thick front:

Mayatex San Juan Solids Blanket Pony Size

Wintec Comfort Saddle Pad With Lift - Statelinetack.com

Both lift the front and stabilize the saddle. You could try that with your current saddle. I use a Wintec pad without any lift on my little mustang under his Abetta. For my mare, I could get my Aussie-style saddle adjusted to be narrower, but Mia has a bony top to her withers, and she seems to like having extra cushion around it. Can't promise it would work, but something to think about.


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

DancingArabian said:


> Have you considered endurance models of saddles?
> 
> This is a high end (ie expensive) model: Ansur Endeavor Saddle | Ansur® Saddlery


No i haven't, i've looked into Endurance saddles a long long time ago. Never thought. Thanks DA!!


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

bsms said:


> In the front, saddle width can mean two things - how wide it is measured with a horizontal ruler, and how flat the angle is measured from the center of the gullet to the tips of the front of the tree. My saddle is actually too wide for Mia when measured horizontally. To fill in the gap, I pad it with either a pony pad folded in half or a Wintec pad with the thick front:
> 
> Mayatex San Juan Solids Blanket Pony Size
> 
> ...


I was beginning to wonder what pad i should be looking into for under the saddle. I only have a thin one that i fold in half, and a 1in wool one. My saddle is broken in for my appy who seems to have no withers (just noticed) and he's so wide built, its like riding on a fifty five gallon drum. :shock: :lol: Thank you, i will definitely keep it in mind!!


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## Ironless Horse (Aug 15, 2012)

Check out a Gaucho Saddle. They are treeless and have been used as a working stock saddle for hundreds of years.


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