# Paint horses with Rabicano



## bjb (Jun 25, 2011)

I was wondering if anyone here has or knows a paint horse that also has Rabicano? I am looking at a horse I may be buying and I think she is paint with rabicano. I know it happens but I have never seen it and there are not many pictures on google. The mare I am looking at has lots of the white ticking in her mid section and she has the **** tail. She is also an overo so it makes it harder to tell. If you have any pictures of paints with rabicano please share them with me. 
Thanks!


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Sure do. I can think of one particular mare off the top of my head. I will PM you a picture of her because I do not want to post it directly onto the forum.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Yep, my friend has a registered Paint mare who sports numerous patterns - we're thinking at least sabino, frame and rabicano plus potentially splash. These pics don't show it well but she has a fairly prominant white tail head and fairly prominant white ticking throughout her flank spots (the photos don't really show this at all):


















_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bjb (Jun 25, 2011)

She is pretty! is she in foal?


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

I also wonder if she has tobiano also with that big spot on her flank.


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## Ace80908 (Apr 21, 2011)

Daisy also sports numerous patterns: frame, sabino, and rabicano...

Here are a few pics showing the skunk tail and flank ticking, she also has the ticking pronounced in other areas as well...

She will be bred this spring to VS Code Blue - he is a red roan quarter... can't wait to see what color I get from this cross!!

His pic as well!


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## bjb (Jun 25, 2011)

wow beautiful! hope you share what the baby looks like when it arrives, should be stunning


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## CCH (Jan 23, 2011)

Poseidon said:


> Sure do. I can think of one particular mare off the top of my head. I will PM you a picture of her because I do not want to post it directly onto the forum.


Anyone I know 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bitinsane (Jun 5, 2013)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Yep, my friend has a registered Paint mare who sports numerous patterns - we're thinking at least sabino, frame and rabicano plus potentially splash. These pics don't show it well but she has a fairly prominant white tail head and fairly prominant white ticking throughout her flank spots (the photos don't really show this at all):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


oh my god lol!!! it looks like that lady has got her head stuck up the horses bum :lol:


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

CCH said:


> Anyone I know
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not one of yours, though that just occurred to me now. Derp. I think you've seen the one I'm talking about. I will send you it.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Ace80908 said:


> Daisy also sports numerous patterns: frame, sabino, and rabicano...
> 
> Here are a few pics showing the skunk tail and flank ticking, she also has the ticking pronounced in other areas as well...
> 
> ...


Has he stallion been tested for frame? You don't want to accidently breed frame to frame.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ace80908 (Apr 21, 2011)

No, he is straight AQHA with no double registered or cropouts in his lines.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

That doesn't mean anything. There are plenty of minimal frame, splash, or sabino AQHA horses. Actually, there are a ton of QHs that I would bet would test positive for sabino. And there are plenty that have a lot of chrome that qualifies as "normal" markings. For example: Sonny Dee Bar was splash and passed that to many of his foals.


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## Ace80908 (Apr 21, 2011)

I don't disagree that it is a sure thing to test, but the frame is the gene that produces OLWS, not splash or sabino... AQHA's that have produced a lethal can be traced to a double registered or a cropout family - the weiscamp lines are also known for it. He is not tested for OLWS, and I feel very comfortable in breeding to him.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

Yes but frame can hide. It isn't only in those lines, any horse in a breed that has it should be tested before breeding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ace80908 (Apr 21, 2011)

Frame can hide, but not generation after generation of non cropout, non double registered AQHAs... His owner didn't test him for OLWS because he is not at risk of it. He has a five panel test for applicable issues, all negative. My answer stands. This thread isn't about breeding an APHA Frame mare to a AQHA stud, if someone wants to open that one up it's an interesting debate. I feel there is no risk, my trainer and the stud's owner feel the same. I'm the one breeding, and I have no worries. But to each their own. Here are some of the stats on this.

Testing of OLWS foals, their parents, and unrelated horses revealed that all OLWS foals had two copies of the defective gene, their parents had one, and unrelated horses had none. Simply put, if carriers are never again bred to each other, there can never be another OLWS foal born. Horses at greatest risk of carrying the defective allele are overos, particularly of American Paint Horses and American Miniature Horse breeding. A small number of Tobiano and breeding stock horses also carry the defective gene, and a very small number of carrier horses have been detected in other breeds.
Copyright © 1996-2000 American Association of Equine Practitioners. All rights reserved.
Overo Lethal White Syndrome - AAEP

OLWS Overo Lethal White Syndrome (OLWS)
Horses that carry this gene are most commonly overo white patterned horses (frame overos), but there are exceptions. The defective gene has been found in American Paint Horses, American Miniature Horses, Half-Arabians, Thoroughbreds, and cropout Quarter Horses (foals born to registered Quarter Horse parents that have too much white to qualify for registration with the American Quarter Horse Association).
https://sites.google.com/site/painthorselegends/genetics

Now perhaps this thread can return to the OP's topic.


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## Ace80908 (Apr 21, 2011)

fftopic:... because I was on the mid shift and bored, looked up the health testing of VS Code Blue's sire and dam. RL Best of Sudden - OLWS n/n. Vital Signs are Good OLWS n/n. She is hypp n/h, but Code Blue is n/n. So there ya go, no risk - other than every risk you take when breeding... 

Now back to our original programming :lol:


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Ace, I am really happy that your chosen stallion is not positive for frame. I too was having a think about it, mostly because the stallion's page says nothing about his LWO status, and that always rings alarm bells.

As for frame hiding, it has been well documented that it is extremely possible for it to hide for multiple generations. The fact is, it very rarely presents as a horse with no white at all (although that is still possible), but instead, as a horse with "normal" white markings. The following horses have all been tested as frame positive, and as you can see, have no indicators in terms of body white.


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## bjb (Jun 25, 2011)

This past spring I know of a little lethal white baby that was born. I can only imagine how tragic it would be to look forward to something for so long just to have it be born doomed to death shortly after. The breeder breeds a lot of Overos together and this is the first lethal white I know of. when people question the logic behind it she tells people not all Overos have frame. I am not sure I believe that but im not totally sure there. I happen to have Overo mares so if I were to ever breed I would be sure the sire was negative for frame. 

ACE80908: im glad your potential baby is not at risk for lethal white.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

That is the problem with the word "overo". It literally means "a horse that has body white that is probably not tobiano". It could be caused by any of these:

Frame
Sabino (one testable mutation, at least one more still not found)
Splash (three testable mutations, at least one more probably still not found)
Dominant White (11 known strains, five testable, probably many more out there)
Rabicano

So that is a total of ten testable mutations that cause patches of body white and are not tobiano, with at least nine more that are not testable yet. As you can imagine, overo covers a lot, and only one of those genes causes a lethal white foal.


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## bjb (Jun 25, 2011)

Chiilaa said:


> That is the problem with the word "overo". It literally means "a horse that has body white that is probably not tobiano". It could be caused by any of these:
> 
> Frame
> Sabino (one testable mutation, at least one more still not found)
> ...


well that makes a ton of sense. Its so complicated. I keep reading and studying on the color genetics (im slightly addicted) and I know more than most of the people around me but man I don't even come close to knowing all of it and it changes so often with all the new scientific findings. I may have to test my mare out of curiosity to see if she has frame or not. Im fairly sure she has Sabino but im not sure on frame, she has a big bald face, white legs, and a white spot on her side about 5 inches long and maybe an inch or two wide.... The mare I am considering purchasing I believe has Sabino, Rabicano, frame, and who knows what else... I think if I bred either one of them I would be doing all the tests just so I know what I might expect.


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