# Nishkin Okchakko; Outback the Medicine Hat Horse



## knightrider

Ooooooh, that baby is adorable!


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## LoriF

Oh look at those legs!! I hope Sally lets you near her baby soon.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Kristyn is out there attempting to bribe Sally into the round pen with feed. No update as of yet... but.

THEM LEGS. LOL I keep thinking: Man! Oops wasn't that leggy when she was born... she wasn't as tall or as big as our old golden retriever when she was a newborn. She also wasn't this active. That little stink was already trotting around and prancing this morning. Oops slept a lot that first day.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

No luck on the bribery. Also Trigger is being very protective of baby.


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## JoBlueQuarter

Sally's baby is adorable!! And those legs! I love how Trigger is being so protective of Baby! I really hope Sally lets you closer to the baby so you can introduce him/her to some human touch.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

I think by this evening, or maybe even over the weekend, she will.

Nope kept Oops away from us in the same pasture too for her first week of life. We just made a point of being available and out there, doing nothing but sitting on the ground in the sun, out of the wind. Nope eventually presented Oops to us, and it took about a half hour for Oops to be putting her head in my daughter's lap and sleeping on the ground next to her.

We'll do the same with Sally and this baby - just be around, same routine on feed times, act the same way, be available and accessible, and just let her bring this one to us when she's ready. 

Oops is a pocket pony now, and she's started under saddle and been learning ground work over the past two months. She just seems to think this is what horses and people do together - they go places, they do things. But we've let the 'herd' teach her some 'horsey manners' when it comes to how she acts (And yes, we've taught Oops some manners too). 

Hopefully we'll get the same results with this one.


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## carshon

The last pic is awesome! Congrats on such a striking baby!


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## walkinthewalk

First, a thousand thank you's for being willing to take a pregnant mare on from the kill pen.

The baby is gorgeous! 

It sounds like you have a very sensible plan to work your way toward the foal. I hope if doesn't take too long.

Years ago, my granddad had one mare like that ---- ornery about letting humans near it. None of us kids were allowed in the stall with her, and we had to avoid her in the pasture, unless she came to one of us. She would grudgingly let granddad in the stall but boy he had to tread lightly.

Oddly enough, she was also a Paint, lollol

With those long legs, if the foal is a filly you could namer her Legs, after the gal in the ZZ Top song.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

LOL I'd thought about that... But. Him... or her... being a medicine hat horse, I thought I'd let a handful of my Choctaw/Choctaw speaking friends, throw some name suggestions out there for this one.

Also... speaking of babies...

This horse will probably belong to my granddaughter, who arrived one month ago, almost to the day, before this pony did.

We also have a litter of Texas Heelers now too... so BABIES EVERYWHERE!


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## JoBlueQuarter

All the babies are adorable!


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## AtokaGhosthorse

And now that Sally's baby is here... I'm eager to see what kind of mare she is. Her spring coat, under that nasty feeling unhealthy coat of hers is slick and very rich palomino. Her mane has grown out considerably since coming to us. Her hooves need a trim BADLY - she got one when she was first home - but the farrier didn't want to put her off balance with such a huge belly the last time he was out.

Also eager to see if her topline comes back. It already looks loads better this morning. She's probably been a brood mare and we all know what that does to their backs. Ultimately, she may not be much for being ridden, but she's great company if you just want 'hang out with a horse' time, so she'll spend the rest of her days with us. She's a great blood pressure reducer. I can just feel the tension bleed off when I'm around her.


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## walkinthewalk

Oh my goodness --- LOOK at all those precious babies! Special gifts, all of them

Your granddaughter is BEAUTIFUL!!!! She looks like she is pretty tall for her age --- she and the foal have something in common. 

It is exciting to know you will keep the foal and it already has a family member to grow up with.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Her daddy is 6'2"... my daughter is 5'10"!

I don't think there's a snowballs chance she'll be short... but her nick name is already Short Stack - she was born on IHOP's free short stack day, which is the same day every year, so guess where birthdays will be held?

And here's the thing with keeping this foal AND Oops, who was also born to us two years ago - Superman is 22ish. He's approaching retirement age for carrying adult weight. Eventually, my son will have to start riding a different horse.


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## knightrider

It's funny, my daughter and I were joking today about how maybe imprinting a foal is overrated. Her young mare (age 5 1/2) is such a pocket pony, all over with kisses and love, shoves her nose in the halter (even when it isn't her we are trying to catch). When we bought her, she had never been handled, ever. Some neighbors roped her and dragged her into the trailer at 4 months to wean her from her mom.

When we turned her out into her pasture with my mare Isabeau, we couldn't get near her. My daughter would sit in the pasture with feed and just be with her. Then we built a pen on the side of the pasture and put her food in there. Within two months, we could handle her, lead her, pick up her feet. After that, she was our friend for life.


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## LoriF

@knightrider Novia is the same way and I handled since birth. I really think temperament has more to do with it than anytihng. If you handle them at birth, it just happens faster is all. They're just friendly horses. Your daughter got herself a good one.

You're right though, it probably is overrated.


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## Kriva

Congratulations on all the babies!!! They are all beautiful. Your granddaughter looks precious and perfect!! I've never been a "lover of paints", but they've grown on me more and more lately. But I have always felt that there is something special and spiritual about a medicine hat paint. It's like they're possibly a past spirit come back as a horse. I'm sure there's some folklore out there somewhere about them, I just haven't researched it. 

Did anyone happen to know anything about the possible sire of the baby?


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## AtokaGhosthorse

The Kill Pen people claimed the stud is supposed to be registered APHA (no mention if TB or QH). Looking at Sally, surely to goodness she's APHA/AQHA, but of course - no papers came with her.

The father COULD be APHA of the TB variety whereas Sally is quite clearly all QH. We're going to have the local vet send off hair samples and see if we can at least get the foal papered.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Imprinting.

I think it's benign but overrated at it's best and probably unnecessary. 

At it's worst? 

I think it's a case of Humans being too arrogant or insecure... or both... to trust that a horse can learn to be a horse on it's own, and use it as a cheat to get around not understanding horses.

I know horses aren't dogs or cats, but we treated Nope and Oops just like a momma dog or cat we're very familiar with and had just had a litter. We gave them their space those first few days, made sure everyone was comfortable and relaxed, went about our daily routine like nothing had changed... except we were more accessible by being in the same pasture. We seemed to be ignoring them entirely at those times. (A bit like the old go out there and sit down and read or pretend you lost your keys to get close to a spooky, hard to catch horse)

When Nope was okay with us being around, that's when she introduced us to her baby and she's been in our pocket ever since. Oops has never known people to be mean, or cruel or short tempered with her - only firm, fair and consistent. 

OTOH...

I've had kids that were born into old school Cowboy them Out families that just shake their heads and tell us she'll be hard to 'break'. She won't 'respect' people, etc.

That's been proven blatantly untrue, at least for this horse. As soon as she was saucy enough to start pushing on us as a wee one, we pushed back and didn't let her crowd us (There's a difference in her wanting to be around us and say hi and crowding to intimidate btw, we know it when it happens and yes, she does try it from time to time, but every horse does, that's just a horse being a horse, its in their nature). She neck reins like she's done it all her life, never offers to buck when JC is working her in the pen a little, she took to lunging and round pen work quickly, she is eager to do anything we ask of her, and so far, she's been ridden with nothing but a rope halter, the type with two knots on the nose band, and a long lead line that we use like mecate. The only time she gets stubborn is when she's getting tired, and then its time to call it a day. 

She's even learned to kneel, to bow, and then to lay down for us. No throwing her down in a saddle type laying down like some trainers will do to assert dominance. I mean a gradual, calm, controlled, relaxed lay down in the grass, stretch out, and get her belly rubbed and take a nap in the sun type laying down.

I laugh though - it may not be the same with other foals, so we'll see - but Oops is the type of horse that we could teach to be a 'trick' horse. She just loves learning things with her people. I THINK she'd be the type of horse we could teach to play dead. LOL


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## carshon

You can already get the foal papered with the Pinto Horse Association. Neither AQHA nor APHA do DNA matches to find parentage (Morgan Horse Club) is the only I know that does this. And with AQHA and APHA you have to have a signed stallion report and transfer from previous owners to register the foal. Things would be so much easier if all registries mandated DNA on file. I think AQHA may have started it but it was voluntary only.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Daughter is out there now, was just hanging out, called me to tell me she went ahead and put Supes and Trigger in the round pen, Supes was harassing Sally and baby, Trigger was trying to intervene, she was afraid everyone was going to get hurt.

While talking to me on the phone she says: OH! It just whinnied at me!

OH!

MOM! It's 15 yards away and just walking right up to me! Sally's bringing her to me!

OH MY GOODNESS! MOM! It's 3 ft away! Now it's nuzzling me! It's a filly! Both eyes are bright blue!

Here's a pile of new baby pictures!


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## EstrellaandJericho

Oh my lawd what a cutie!!!! What a blessing!!! A true medicine hat! You are so deservingly blessed atoka!


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## AtokaGhosthorse

TY! I gotta admit, her momma is a blessing to have too. So calm and wonderful to be around, she's a lovey dovey lady.


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## horseluvr2524

She is so gorgeous! Just look at those unique markings! She will need a special, unique name to go with them. She reminds me of the type of horse that can 'ride the wind'. Maybe find her a name with a meaning akin to 'Windrunner'?


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## AtokaGhosthorse

horseluvr2524 said:


> She is so gorgeous! Just look at those unique markings! She will need a special, unique name to go with them. She reminds me of the type of horse that can 'ride the wind'. Maybe find her a name with a meaning akin to 'Windrunner'?


I like that.

I'm also thinking maybe something to do with the weather - it's been raining and lots of lightning lately. Sally seems to have timed the birth between two bands of weather - it's going to be nice again for the next few days, then the bottom falls out again Sunday.

I'd also thought something meaning hope or something to do with second chances since Sally already had her USDA approved sticker on her rump when daughter picked her up.

Allegedly, she was slotted to be shipped out to Mexico in about 12 hours. No one wanted an already pregnant mare.


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## tinyliny

She's gorgeous!

I'd namer her "Storm Front", or . "Stormy" for short.


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## phantomhorse13

So much cuteness, between the filly and the puppies!! I hope you continue to update with lots of pics of both!


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## walkinthewalk

AtokaGhosthorse said:


> I'd also thought something meaning hope or something to do with second chances since Sally already had her USDA approved sticker on her rump when daughter picked her up.
> 
> Allegedly, she was slotted to be shipped out to Mexico in about 12 hours. No one wanted an already pregnant mare.


Was your daughter able to find out how she ended up at that auction in the first place? 

I could throw up if I think long enough on that --- what a relief your daughter bought Sally. She's safe for the rest of her life now:cowboy:


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## horseluvr2524

So forgive my ignorance, but I wasn't aware that horse slaughter was really a thing in the USA. I knew about horses getting put on trucks to Mexico for slaughter, but are they really doing the actual slaughter in the USA? Is the meat getting used for pet food? Because I hope to God I never see horse meat in the grocery store.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

No, the slaughter happens in Mexico, but they have to be approved to ship across the border. She came with an approved for slaughter sticker stuck on her rump, like a sale barn sticker. I've seen the same sticker on other horses just rescued from other pens, so my assumption is that they all get stamped 'ok to eat' and get shipped out.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Never did. The vet was surprised she ended up there to, she's just too good natured and healthy. I worried she might have been accidentally bred by a reallllly large breed of horse and they didn't want to deal with a high risk pregnancy, but so far as I can tell the stud may have well been as advertised. sil2b said there were about 75 yearlings and weanlings there, lots of purebred horses, everything from Arabian to TWHs, even a Missouri foxtrotter, all ready to load and ship the next day. He said he was sick and almost crying when he got on the road.


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## JoBlueQuarter

OH MY GOODNESS. What a little cutie! I'm in love! <3 


On a serious note, the horse slaughter business can be disgusting and rather heartbreaking.


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## horseluvr2524

Is there a list of slaughter auctions floating around somewhere? Eventually I'll be getting a second horse, and I could definitely take on a project. This would be in Ohio though.

Sorry for derailing the thread XD

I will be looking forward to seeing how baby develops and what activities you get up to with momma!


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## walkinthewalk

AtokaGhosthorse said:


> Imprinting.
> 
> I think it's benign but overrated at it's best and probably unnecessary.


I don't like the word imprint either --- but the phrase granddad used was a lot longer:

"You girls need to git to handlin' them foals afore they git to handlin' you", lollol

He gave the foal one to two weeks with their dam, then he would put a halter on them for a few hours and give us strict instructions as to what our lesson plan for that foal was

By the time I realized just how much I appreciated his kind and gentle ways with his horses and the foundation he gave me, it was too late to thank him---


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## EstrellaandJericho

horseluvr2524 said:


> Is there a list of slaughter auctions floating around somewhere? Eventually I'll be getting a second horse, and I could definitely take on a project. This would be in Ohio though.
> 
> Sorry for derailing the thread XD
> 
> I will be looking forward to seeing how baby develops and what activities you get up to with momma!


tbh there are fb kill pen groups but your best bet is to outbid a kill buyer at a horse auction. Otherwise you're feeding the beast. Atoka may have a better suggestion but that's the solution I have personally come up with. 

I can't wait to see this cutie grow!!


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## horseluvr2524

EstrellaandJericho said:


> tbh there are fb kill pen groups but your best bet is to outbid a kill buyer at a horse auction. Otherwise you're feeding the beast. Atoka may have a better suggestion but that's the solution I have personally come up with.
> 
> I can't wait to see this cutie grow!!


Yes, true. I remember reading about buying horses off a slaughter truck and how you are actually just fueling the slaughter industry by doing so.


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## walkinthewalk

AtokaGhosthorse said:


> Never did. The vet was surprised she ended up there to, she's just too good natured and healthy. I worried she might have been accidentally bred by a reallllly large breed of horse and they didn't want to deal with a high risk pregnancy, but so far as I can tell the stud may have well been as advertised. sil2b said there were about 75 yearlings and weanlings there, lots of purebred horses, everything from Arabian to TWHs, even a Missouri foxtrotter, all ready to load and ship the next day. He said he was sick and almost crying when he got on the road.


Sometimes I do my better thinking (notice I did not say best at the barn.

It is possible the true owner of the mare is not who sent her to that auction.

It is possible the true owner either passed away, became ill, or came to be in dire financial straits and gave the mare away to someone who promised to keep the mare themselves. They lied to the owner and took the mare straight to the auction for a few dollars.

That is often how dogs & cats get dumped off or taken to shelters --- a family member makes a promise to an elder family member they have no intention of keeping-----

It's times like this I wish animal communicators were legitimate.


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## horseluvr2524

walkinthewalk said:


> That is often how dogs & cats get dumped off or taken to shelters --- a family member makes a promise to an elder family member they have no intention of keeping-----
> 
> It's times like this I wish animal communicators were legitimate.


My uncle lost his wife to cancer. His wife had a beautiful long haired, white cat. A few years after his wife died, the cat started having problems vomiting (common in cats and can usually be fixed by diet). He just took the cat to the shelter and dumped it like it was nothing and didn't mean anything. Made me sick. I'm not close with any of my blood related family... except my brother.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

horseluvr2524 said:


> Is there a list of slaughter auctions floating around somewhere? Eventually I'll be getting a second horse, and I could definitely take on a project. This would be in Ohio though.
> 
> Sorry for derailing the thread XD
> 
> I will be looking forward to seeing how baby develops and what activities you get up to with momma!


Here's the thing. Why buy a horse from a kill pen for $700 when you could have bought the same horse through a CL ad or from a livestock auction for half the money before the owners get desperate enough to sell the horse to a KP buyer?

Trigger came from a horse auction... and the guy that bought him and then immediately called us and sent us pictures of him to see if we wanted him, outbid a KP buyer at an auction to get him. He said: "What can I say? I'm a sucker for a horse with a long mane." 

Trigger's mane saved him. 

I don't like buying from Kill Pens. My daughter made the mistake of stumbling into a FB kill pen group, and spotted Sally among the Ships Friday (on that Wednesday - Sally came home on Thursday) group of horses. I applaud her desire to save a horse and even more so to take a chance on a 'two for one' mare, she even haggled them down hard by rolling up with cash and nitpicking Sally... but... by handing them cash to 'save' Sally and her unborn foal, she gave them the money to go buy two more to send to Mexico on a different day.

I tried explaining this to her, but y'know. Her heart was already breaking for this mare. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we have her, glad we saved her foal, but it saddens me to think that two more took their place.

And it IS possible her previous owner didn't know she was going to a kill pen, or yes, could have passed away, something like that. However, the vet suspects she was a professional brood mare, so one of the big horse breeding operations could have just off loaded a bunch of horses and she wound up there. I see sneaky ads in CL and even on FB groups all the time ISO of Cheap OTTB, or ISO free project horse. It's not someone looking to buy a troubled horse, fix the holes, and resell them. That's a KP sneaking around.

I've also seen a lot of stolen horse reports in the news and on FB lately... Gotta wonder if it's people stealing them and selling to kill pen buyers... and our friend that bought Trigger actually went to prison for nearly killing a man who stole our friend's father's horses and shipped them to Mexico. By the time they found out half the herd was gone, it was too late. They were already in cans of dog food. I can't say that I blame our friend for beating that guy half to death after kidnapping him. *This was before we'd met him*


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## JoBlueQuarter

AtokaGhosthorse said:


> Here's the thing. Why buy a horse from a kill pen for $700 when you could have bought the same horse through a CL ad or from a livestock auction for half the money before the owners get desperate enough to sell the horse to a KP buyer?
> 
> Trigger came from a horse auction... and the guy that bought him and then immediately called us and sent us pictures of him to see if we wanted him, outbid a KP buyer at an auction to get him. He said: "What can I say? I'm a sucker for a horse with a long mane."
> 
> Trigger's mane saved him.
> 
> I don't like buying from Kill Pens. My daughter made the mistake of stumbling into a FB kill pen group, and spotted Sally among the Ships Friday (on that Wednesday - Sally came home on Thursday) group of horses. I applaud her desire to save a horse and even more so to take a chance on a 'two for one' mare, she even haggled them down hard by rolling up with cash and nitpicking Sally... but... by handing them cash to 'save' Sally and her unborn foal, she gave them the money to go buy two more to send to Mexico on a different day.
> 
> I tried explaining this to her, but y'know. Her heart was already breaking for this mare. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we have her, glad we saved her foal, but it saddens me to think that two more took their place.
> 
> And it IS possible her previous owner didn't know she was going to a kill pen, or yes, could have passed away, something like that. However, the vet suspects she was a professional brood mare, so one of the big horse breeding operations could have just off loaded a bunch of horses and she wound up there. I see sneaky ads in CL and even on FB groups all the time ISO of Cheap OTTB, or ISO free project horse. It's not someone looking to buy a troubled horse, fix the holes, and resell them. That's a KP sneaking around.
> 
> I've also seen a lot of stolen horse reports in the news and on FB lately... Gotta wonder if it's people stealing them and selling to kill pen buyers... and *our friend that bought Trigger actually went to prison for nearly killing a man who stole our friend's father's horses and shipped them to Mexico. By the time they found out half the herd was gone, it was too late. They were already in cans of dog food. I can't say that I blame our friend for beating that guy half to death after kidnapping him. *This was before we'd met him**


Wow, what a story. I rather like your friend!


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## AtokaGhosthorse

He's... well. He's a true blue cowboy. He's owns a rodeo company now. I really like him but he can be intimidating.

There's lyrics in the Mamma's don't let your Babies Grow Up to be Cowboys song that are exactly him:

Them that don't know him won't like him
and them that do sometimes won't know how to take him.
He ain't wrong, he's just different
But his pride won't let him do things to make you think he's right.

Btw. I like him and trust him enough that I had one of those stupid fluid filled cysts on my wrist back in November. It came back after having it surgically removed a year and a half ago, and it was so big the second time I couldn't type, my fingers were going numb, it was making my arm hurt and nerves tingle. A little SoCo and Coke, some grilled cheeseburgers and a lot of shooting the bull later, he gets out a sterile, brand new cattle syringe... like... turkey baster sized.

We *his wife, my husband, him and me* *yes, horrible grammar, I know* drew that cyst off right there at the kitchen table. And it freaked him out that I thought it was cool instead of being all faint and upset about being stuck with a needle that big. He still gets all grossed out about it, but y'know what? It hasn't returned. The original surgery cost me a week of my life on pain pills and an arm in a wrist split, and IDK how much money, and it was back in two months. If it comes back a third time, I'll just buy a couple of two liters of Coke, a 5th of SoCo and some hamburger meat and we'll do that again.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

OH! That friend is the one that told a very drunk guy/roper to apologize to our friend's roping horse (not to our friend... to the horse) for disparaging her. The drunk guy was badmouthing the horse, talking horribly about how terrible a roping horse she was, and when it was overheard, our friend made him 'pologize to our other friend's horse. He had to look her in the eyes, and sincerely apologize and use her name while doing it... in front of everyone.

It was awesome. 

This is why you don't talk smack about a roper's horse. You can talk about them all day long and maybe not get your butt thrashed... but talk about their horse? It's ON like donkey kong.


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## JoBlueQuarter

AtokaGhosthorse said:


> He's... well. He's a true blue cowboy. He's owns a rodeo company now. I really like him but he can be intimidating.
> 
> There's lyrics in the Mamma's don't let your Babies Grow Up to be Cowboys song that are exactly him:
> 
> Them that don't know him won't like him
> and them that do sometimes won't know how to take him.
> He ain't wrong, he's just different
> But his pride won't let him do things to make you think he's right.
> 
> Btw. I like him and trust him enough that I had one of those stupid fluid filled cysts on my wrist back in November. It came back after having it surgically removed a year and a half ago, and it was so big the second time I couldn't type, my fingers were going numb, it was making my arm hurt and nerves tingle. A little SoCo and Coke, some grilled cheeseburgers and a lot of shooting the bull later, he gets out a sterile, brand new cattle syringe... like... turkey baster sized.
> 
> We *his wife, my husband, him and me* *yes, horrible grammar, I know* drew that cyst off right there at the kitchen table. And it freaked him out that I thought it was cool instead of being all faint and upset about being stuck with a needle that big. He still gets all grossed out about it, but y'know what? It hasn't returned. The original surgery cost me a week of my life on pain pills and an arm in a wrist split, and IDK how much money, and it was back in two months. If it comes back a third time, I'll just buy a couple of two liters of Coke, a 5th of SoCo and some hamburger meat and we'll do that again.


****, I like him even more!!



AtokaGhosthorse said:


> OH! That friend is the one that told a very drunk guy/roper to apologize to our friend's roping horse (not to our friend... to the horse) for disparaging her. The drunk guy was badmouthing the horse, talking horribly about how terrible a roping horse she was, and when it was overheard, our friend made him 'pologize to our other friend's horse. He had to look her in the eyes, and sincerely apologize and use her name while doing it... in front of everyone.
> 
> It was awesome.
> 
> This is why you don't talk smack about a roper's horse. You can talk about them all day long and maybe not get your butt thrashed... but talk about their horse? It's ON like donkey kong.


*This. Is. Amazing.* OMG. I'm getting weird looks right now because I'm literally laughing so hard that tears are running down my face. He is such a cool guy; wish I could meet him! :rofl: :lol: That is just so awesomely priceless! Wish I'd been there!! I'm guessing the drunk guy never lived down that experience!


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Oh, before I digressed... anyway.

Don't wait to buy from a kill pen. 

There's so, so many horses out there that could be saved before they ever get there. The trauma Sally went through, the stress, the overall conditions were all just horrific. She was eaten up with fly bites - I mean her skin was so bad it looked like rain rot, and it was all fly bites from being at the pen. Her hair felt gross, she was dirty, she was scared... those tools even tried to talk my daughter out of buying her once she got there to pick Sally up, probably because they could play the sympathy card and get more for her out of someone else at the 11th hour since my daughter haggled them down. They had a video of one of the KP hands trying to ride her... in a saddle that was way too small for her. The girths were sucked up tight enough to cut into her, and this jackwagon GETS ON HER big and pregnant... immediately spurs the crap out of her, and predictably she blows in two.... and he RIDES HER OUT... and after showing the video says: "Yeah, she's not what you want. How about..." my daughter cut him off right there with: I'd pitch a fit too if you slapped a saddle on me, being pregnant, and nearly cut me in half with the cinches, then spurred the crap out of me once you got in the saddle. Load her up, here's your money.

Sally may NOT be a horse worth riding, IDK. But yeah... I don't think that video was a valid reason to not buy her. The only way that video could have had a happy ending was if she'd bucked that guy off and kicked him square in the buttocks. 

That she trusts us like she does and was willing to introduce her newborn to my daughter today just goes to show how forgiving horses can be. Sometimes I wonder why humans deserve it.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

JoBlueQuarter said:


> ****, I like him even more!!
> 
> 
> 
> *This. Is. Amazing.* OMG. I'm getting weird looks right now because I'm literally laughing so hard that tears are running down my face. He is such a cool guy; wish I could meet him! :rofl: :lol: That is just so awesomely priceless! Wish I'd been there!! I'm guessing the drunk guy never lived down that experience!



The best way to hear that, and the hog-dragging runaway horse story our other friend (The one who's horse was 'pologized to) tells, is to hear them around the fire pit after they've both had a few drinks (or more than a few).

THEN they act the stories out. It hurts, I get to laughing so hard. I honestly don't know how embellished some of the stories are, but who cares? This is yarn spinnin' at it's finest. I do know the You're Gonna 'Pologize to that Horse story IS accurate. I've heard it told by other cowboys who saw the whole thing and it's word-for-word the truth.

The real punchline is, our other friend was in the saddle, coming out of the arena after their run when that guy squared up with the horse and lovingly, sincerely apologized to her while looking her in the eyes.

He was soooo confused why this guy was doing that.


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## JoBlueQuarter

AtokaGhosthorse said:


> The best way to hear that, and the hog-dragging runaway horse story our other friend (The one who's horse was 'pologized to) tells, is to hear them around the fire pit after they've both had a few drinks (or more than a few).
> 
> THEN they act the stories out. It hurts, I get to laughing so hard. I honestly don't know how embellished some of the stories are, but who cares? This is yarn spinnin' at it's finest. I do know the You're Gonna 'Pologize to that Horse story IS accurate. I've heard it told by other cowboys who saw the whole thing and it's word-for-word the truth.
> 
> The real punchline is, our other friend was in the saddle, coming out of the arena after their run when that guy squared up with the horse and lovingly, sincerely apologized to her while looking her in the eyes.
> 
> He was soooo confused why this guy was doing that.


ROFLMAO. That sounds soo good! You have some pretty awesome friends!


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## AtokaGhosthorse

They're all pretty awesome guys - if you can get past the whole rough as sandpaper exterior. They're all like family to us.


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## JCnGrace

@AtokaGhosthorse, all that beautiful new life joining your family, you are truly blessed! Congratulations. Those 3 very rotund puppies cracked me up, there's nothing cuter than a roly poly puppy. Not that all of them aren't cute but you can tell those 3 aren't late to the table. LOL Love Sally's happy ending!


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## phantomhorse13

horseluvr2524 said:


> Is there a list of slaughter auctions floating around somewhere? Eventually I'll be getting a second horse, and I could definitely take on a project. This would be in Ohio though.


The Sugarcreek auction is a known "kill auction" in Ohio. There are a couple individuals and rescues that sometimes are there trying to pull and rehome horses before the get into the slaughter pipeline.




walkinthewalk said:


> It's times like this I wish animal communicators were legitimate.


You just need to find the right person. My best friend is a communicator. Feel free to PM for how we met and why I believe in her ability.


@*AtokaGhosthorse* : you mentioned your pups were "Texas heelers." Is that a specific mix derived from Australian Cattle Dogs? Just curious as I love a good herding dog (and seeing reds in your picture, I can't help but drool).


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Yeah, I THINK that's a split litter of pups. Half are large and well developed, half are smaller, more like runts. They're all fat for their size, but those three are freakishly huge compared to the others. The smaller ones aren't as active either, but still healthy. I think our boy Bo got the job done twice. As in, developmentally the two halves of the litter are a week apart. We had two more that didn't make it and couldn't be saved. This is Lu's first litter so I'm told that's not unusual. Sad, but I didn't expect them all to live. Daughter even tried bottle feeding one and it just wasn't able to make it.

The mix: Heeler and Aussie Shepherd. Lucy is a red heeler, Beaux/Bo/Bozo is a red merle Aussie with bi-color eyes. Both his eyes are a split between this lovely, heavenly blue color and almost a pastel amber if there's such a thing. 

Neither parent is particularly good at helping us with the cattle. Bo tends to scatter them in his enthusiasm, then he's so silly he just grins at us like SEE! I HELP! I'm Bo. SQUIRREL! I joke and say he's a pretty blond. He has four brain cells and it takes all four to get him through the day. GREAT companion dog, useless as a cow dog, but also has a big dog bark and can be quite intimidating when strange men pull up to the house. Our cowboy rodeo/rancher friends say that the Aussies have, by and large been split into the 'pretty, good family dog' strains and the working dog strains. Bo is clearly of the first category. He's a doll, just useless.

Lucy is a heeler with an undocked tail. She's fantastically loyal, literally paces at my knee everywhere I go when I'm outside, but seems confused about what I'm asking for on sic'ing the cows. I desperately need her to clear them away from the gate at feed time or help push them THROUGH the gate and across the road into the other pasture and she tries, but she's confused. She acts like she's afraid she'll get in trouble for doing her job, but no one here has ever discouraged her from pushing the cows, and we've had her since she was a pup. Some dogs have it I guess, others not so much.

I miss our Bandit, a blue heeler we had that go ran over. HE was born just knowing how to help me with the cows, it seems.

More dog digression: We now have a former breeder dog, an English Bulldog. She's my SIL2B's dog, Dafni. Daf... is old. She's lost a lot of her teeth, she's too old for his family to use her to breed any more, and don't get me wrong, she had a GREAT life at their house, but now she's here and living a breeding free farm/ranch life.

SHE may be the BEST cow dog we've had yet as far as clearing the gate and keeping them back so we can throw the feed in the troughs. She has a buffer zone of tolerance and the first curious heifer that takes one step inside her invisible No Fly Zone gets their snooter snipped... well. Gummed. She has her back teeth, none of her front. She will light them up for trespassing beyond the gate when I open it to walk through with the feed buckets.

The problem is she's about half deaf and you have to really drop your voice some octaves and have a low, LOUD projection for her to hear you if you're calling her off. LOL She's almost blind in one eye too, so... yehaw! Only us. I swear, the K bar K Cattle Co takes in all the misfits and rejects. LOL


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Oh, and Daf got a hold of Trigger's snoot the other night. *sigh*

I was out there loving on Sally (this is pre baby arrival, maybe two nights before), Trigger is minding his own business, just nibbling around at the spring grass coming in, he's become very trusting and relaxed when I'm out there because y'know. I'm mom. I'll protect him... and Daf, I didn't realize, was stalking him. She has a very slow, deliberate way of getting close to her target, and I saw a blur of motion and chaos out of the corner of my eye, Trigger stood straight up and slung the dog off his nose... danced in place for a second and bolted in a huge circle around me and Sally and came to a stop right behind me, peeping over my shoulder at the dog, who was getting her tail blistered, verbally by me. She knew she'd messed up and slunk off to hide in shame. It took her 24 hours to get over said shame.

I'm hopeful she won't do that again. She didn't hurt him, but she sure blew him up. He was shaking uncontrollable, his head was bobbing and weaving, nostrils wide, eyes full of instinctive fear... but at least he came to me and let me get him calmed down with that forehead rub that works so well on him. Poor guy. Bad thing is, that's what English Bulldogs were originally bred to do - but around cattle... hence the name. 

Oh yes... best heeling dog I've ever had/seen... a Boston Terrier with one eye and a hair lip. I grew up on property that adjoined Ken Slawson's breeding ranch in the 80s. He bred up a LOT of fantastic cutting horses, and kept a herd of cattle to work and train the horses (Always amazing to watch a well trained cutting horse work... he had an all black stud horse, black as a crows wing, and that animal was jaw dropping to see and watch him handle the cattle). Our dog... born with a congenital defect, the hair lip and a cleft palate, was given to us. He lost his eye in a tragic car chasing accident and the vet sewed the socket shut, so he looked like a wee pirate.

When Ken would try to round up the cows out of the pasture, our dog would dart out there and start nipping heels and pushing cows... my mom panicked once, and tried to call him back. Ken rides up on his horse and tips his hat at her and me and says: "Ma'me. If you don't mind, just let him do his thing. That little dog is the best heeling dog I've ever seen. I appreciate his help." 

So our little weird looking Boston terrier had a side gig working cattle with a couple of border collies back in the 80s. LOL


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## EstrellaandJericho

Atoka is (as always IMHO) right.


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## Change

I think I'm in love with the little blue merle pup. Will you be keeping all of them?


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## JoBlueQuarter

Too bad about the pups that died. Our dog Ginger has had multiple litters, and all (average) 8 usually survived. There always was the runt of the litter and it sometimes made it and sometimes couldn't, but we've never lost a big part of a litter, except for when a couple got rabies. That was one crazy time. Anyway, what I was aiming to say was that a yearling-two-year-old of ours once had a litter - wasn't planned - and all except for one died. That was tragic, but like you said first litters have a large chance of dying. Ginger had an older litter at the same time and they kind of adopted each other's pups; the youngsters had two mommas.

That story about the Boston Terrier is really cool. I've always loved them, and now it seems like they might not be useless after all!


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## Dustbunny

A blue-eyed, medicine hat filly!!!!! How great is that? And with a little chestnut behinder there hopefully will be no pink skin under that tail.
You have a very interesting sounding farm. : ) A lot of critters lucky to have you!


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## walkinthewalk

Oh my! I got some terrific dog visuals while reading your reviews of each dog's abilities, lollol and hugs to all of them for efforts

My Rottweilers tried to herd my horses all the time but TWH Duke was the strong alpha and would not be bossed around by something in a fuzzy black coat, wearing a brown bow tie, lollol

Rotties own the dog part of my soul but I lost three to cancer and said I could not take losing one more. 

I now have two Catahoula/mixes. One is a "live and let live" couch potato. 

The other is wiley, has his own agenda when he isn't wearing the shock collar and is smart enough to know there are two sets of rules in the house. DH lets him get away with "murder". However, with the right training he would make a great cattle dog. In DH's infinite wisdom, he has managed to teach Know-it-all-Sheldon how to "go get Rusty" and when to back off once Rusty gets moving toward the barn.

Sheldon wants to please as long as he can stay focused. He is coming four and to me, he is just now now starting to mature mentally, but he is plenty smart. Someone with knowledge to herd train a dog could get great things out of him, I think. I've taken dogs to obedience but my smarts end there, lollol. 

Meaning, Catahoulas and mixes of them are not only great boar hunting dogs, they can make great cattle dogs. If one ever shows up in your yard, give it a chance to earn its keep


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## phantomhorse13

AtokaGhosthorse said:


> The mix: Heeler and Aussie Shepherd. Lucy is a red heeler, Beaux/Bo/Bozo is a red merle Aussie with bi-color eyes.
> 
> Neither parent is particularly good at helping us with the cattle. He has four brain cells and it takes all four to get him through the day. GREAT companion dog, useless as a cow dog, but also has a big dog bark and can be quite intimidating when strange men pull up to the house.
> 
> Lucy is a heeler with an undocked tail. She's fantastically loyal, literally paces at my knee everywhere I go when I'm outside, but seems confused about what I'm asking for on sic'ing the cows.


Ah yes, see those sound like exactly what kinds of dogs I need, seeing as I love the crazy herding breeds yet don't really have actual work for them to do.. thank goodness you are far away, as a red female of that mix (or Aussie/BC) is my dream dog, with merle just icing on the cake.

I suspect most of them are spoken for already though, if they are like most litters of working dogs I have had the pleasure of knowing.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Change said:


> I think I'm in love with the little blue merle pup. Will you be keeping all of them?


 Oh goodness no. We MAY keep one. The fat blue one is the one my entire family wants to keep, and also the one everyone wants to buy. They're for sale. 

Spent the day with those little stinks - they're just big enough to weeble wobble all over the place and get lost and start crying for help. The two tiny ones are pretty quiet and don't go too far - the other four are the adventurers but also the cry babies. Goodness gracious.... 

Baby horse - the eye on the white side is absolutely going to stay blue. The one on the brown side is clear, bright blue on the bottom of the eye, a murky blue at the top part of the eye. Soooo IDK what it will end up being.

Hubs scared the bejeesus out of me this evening. I saw him putting out a bale of hay for the cows and he stops the tractor about 15 yards from Sally, Trigger, and baby, gets down, eases up to Sal and impressively, she comes over to him and lets him love on her and see the baby. He comes back, tells me baby has blood running down her back side and dried to her legs. 

WHAT!?

Dude, are you sure its not the packing grease type poop that all babies have to clear out? 

Oh no... its blood. 

Are you sure? Because I saw the same thing and it's black....

So I go out there, all worried... yes baby has a messy rear end, but the blood I see is in the same pattern as when Sally would swat at flies with her tail today... and whap the baby.

Pretty sure we're all good there. I was within 2 feet of her, with my glasses on, and it just looks like that first poo that gets every where. Will still be keeping an eye on her though. I wish Sally would let me y'know. Examine closely, but she's still too easily provoked right now. She'd stomp me to pudding if I actually tried to touch the baby. 

In fact, baby started hopping around, all saucy and sassy, trying to get Trigger to play this morning... annnnddd even tried to get ninny off him. Ahem... he was just all: Whoa Whoa! Kid! Noo nooo... where's your mom? 

He moved away from her... and here comes Sally thundering along and tries to thrash Trigs for just standing there after HER baby was running all over the place trying to get him to play. 

Anywho... fingers crossed everything is okay in the tail end of things. I think everything is normal, but I can't remember when Oops was that little what that part was like. Nope didn't let us get close enough to her to even know how her system was doing for a full week.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

walkinthewalk said:


> Oh my! I got some terrific dog visuals while reading your reviews of each dog's abilities, lollol and hugs to all of them for efforts
> 
> My Rottweilers tried to herd my horses all the time but TWH Duke was the strong alpha and would not be bossed around by something in a fuzzy black coat, wearing a brown bow tie, lollol
> 
> Rotties own the dog part of my soul but I lost three to cancer and said I could not take losing one more.
> 
> I now have two Catahoula/mixes. One is a "live and let live" couch potato.
> 
> The other is wiley, has his own agenda when he isn't wearing the shock collar and is smart enough to know there are two sets of rules in the house. DH lets him get away with "murder". However, with the right training he would make a great cattle dog. In DH's infinite wisdom, he has managed to teach Know-it-all-Sheldon how to "go get Rusty" and when to back off once Rusty gets moving toward the barn.
> 
> Sheldon wants to please as long as he can stay focused. He is coming four and to me, he is just now now starting to mature mentally, but he is plenty smart. Someone with knowledge to herd train a dog could get great things out of him, I think. I've taken dogs to obedience but my smarts end there, lollol.
> 
> Meaning, Catahoulas and mixes of them are not only great boar hunting dogs, they can make great cattle dogs. If one ever shows up in your yard, give it a chance to earn its keep


Our friend who's horse was apologized to? He has a huge pack of Catahoulas. He hog hunts from horseback, as well as ropes, and that pack of dogs works cattle as well as bays up hogs. You don't see Catahoulas go without a home long in this area, they're a pretty well liked breed. :smile:


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## EquineBovine

Congrats on a beautiful filly!! Cant wait for more updates!
Also your stories need a thread all of their own! Awesome reading! :rofl:


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## AtokaGhosthorse

TY EquineBovine!

Also, checked on baby. Hubs had me losing sleep last night, but he does this. He worries himself sick over livestock - the baby bull that was born to us in February just nearly put Hubs in the grave. He lost SO much sleep worrying it wasn't healthy, it was gonna die. Every time momma would come up for feed in those first few days and he he couldn't see the baby bull, he'd walk the whole pasture looking for the little stink. And every time he walked it, he found the little guy stashed in a thicket or a windbreak in a sunny warm place. He sees boogers where there are none, but I let his worrying get to me because he grew up around cows and horses. Problem is, he was so young when his mom and dad had a breeding herd, and he was never around newborn baby horses, that he DOESN'T KNOW.

So he starts fretting about something and if I don't watch it, it'll consume him and infect me. 

Anyway, wee one is fine this morning. She was trotting around on those little toothpick legs, glued to Sally's side this morning. She'll be fine.

Unintended consequences: Trigger is reverting back to that nervous scared horse. Specifically because Sally is the lead horse among the three of them right now, and she hustles baby away from us a lot of the time, and with her constantly on alert right now, Trigger is looking for EVERYTHING TO EAT HIM again. I watched the energy change like water flowing this morning. He was walking toward me, super glad to see me, then Sally decided to move baby away and BOOM. She created the draw that pulled Trigger along with her. I'm going to have to bust the party up a little - he may need to spend a little time in the round pen with me bringing him feed and snacks again, separating them by tying him to the post where he can't see her and baby.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Name suggestion has been floated out there:

Niskin Okchakko. 

Simply means: Blue eyes.

Nish-kin Oak-chock-oh is how he broke down the pronunciation. He's working on more.


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## EstrellaandJericho

I like it! But what would her barn name be?


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Just Niskin. LOL

Alternatively: Frankie.


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## SilverMaple

Chacko is a cute name.... how about that?

Good horses end up in kill pens all the time. There are simply far more horses than there are homes, and with land decreasing and feed costs increasing, it's only going to get worse. In our area, the rendering plants won't take horses anymore, so if you don't own land where you can bury or compost your horse, and you can't afford $1200 to have them hauled away and cremated, there's NO WAY to dispose of them. Old and ill horses are ending up at the Saturday night auctions and going to kill because the owners don't know what else to do with them...

One local farm's owner died, and his kids hauled 35 horses to a low-end auction the next day because they didn't know what else to do with them. These were nice, well-bred, papered horses. Broodmares in foal, a stallion, lots of yearlings and 2 y.o.'s. But most weren't even halter broke. About 5 went to good homes. The rest shipped. Had the family reached out to the horse community, or even TRIED to sell them on CL or FB, most of those horses would have been snapped up as projects. I'd have loved to have gotten my hands on a couple of them; they were really nicely-bred horses. But by the time anybody knew about it, the horses were gone. The few folks at the sale who stuck around late at night in bad weather for the loose horses bought up what they could, but most had already spent their money that night, and the KB got most of them. That's not unusual. Happens all the time. The family figured selling those horses would fund the funeral, and that's all they cared about. By the time we knew he'd died, his horses were long gone. 

Your filly has gorgeous markings! Congrats!


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## tinyliny

AtokaGhosthorse said:


> Unintended consequences: Trigger is reverting back to that nervous scared horse. Specifically because Sally is the lead horse among the three of them right now, and she hustles baby away from us a lot of the time, and with her constantly on alert right now, Trigger is looking for EVERYTHING TO EAT HIM again. I watched the energy change like water flowing this morning. He was walking toward me, super glad to see me, then Sally decided to move baby away and BOOM. She created the draw that pulled Trigger along with her. I'm going to have to bust the party up a little - he may need to spend a little time in the round pen with me bringing him feed and snacks again, separating them by tying him to the post where he can't see her and baby.



that's so interesting. It highlights how naive it is of us humans to think that horses will always be the same. I mean, people change radically when a new member comes into the family. It is such a big force that it can split a marriage, bind one, cause the older sibling to really act out, etc. Stress is stress, no matter your specie.

Things will settle, eventually. It's cool to be able to observe these equine dynamics and document them. Just don't be surprised , or disappointed.


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## JoBlueQuarter

AtokaGhosthorse said:


> Name suggestion has been floated out there:
> 
> Niskin Okchakko.
> 
> Simply means: Blue eyes.
> 
> Nish-kin Oak-chock-oh is how he broke down the pronunciation. He's working on more.


I loved this name!


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## tinyliny

that reminds me of "Chaka-khan"


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## EquineBovine

Ahhh blooming Trigger!! He is such a sensitive wee soul


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## Captain Evil

Okay, that wee one is seriously cute! For my name offering (we each get one, don't we?) I vote for Kachina, a Hopi spirit dancer. I have always wanted a horse with this name, but it would have to be a medicine hat horse, I think.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

tinyliny said:


> that's so interesting. It highlights how naive it is of us humans to think that horses will always be the same. I mean, people change radically when a new member comes into the family. It is such a big force that it can split a marriage, bind one, cause the older sibling to really act out, etc. Stress is stress, no matter your specie.
> 
> Things will settle, eventually. It's cool to be able to observe these equine dynamics and document them. Just don't be surprised , or disappointed.


The farrier was out Saturday and did all the horses except Sally.... Trigger was on high alert and fussy the entire time because he couldn't see Sally and the foal. At first I thought he was worried about the foal... but I kept him 'with me' most of the day. Every time Sally and Nishkin (yeah, that's her name) faded from his view, he got very very antsy and upset.

I turned him out, spent the rest of the day with them, off and on.

I watched and kept a decent distance, just to see what was going on.

Sally is on Mom Alert (rightfully, naturally so).

Trigger is the lowest low horse I've ever seen (honestly he's exasperating in his low confidence).

Each and every time Sally zeroed in on a perceived threat, Trigger spazzed.

I don't think it's the baby he's worried for - he's just such a 'flight' horse that her high alert and reacting to anything and everything has turned his nerves into a frazzled mess. EVERYTHING IS GOING TO EAT THEM.

He's feeding off her concern and natural high alert mode. 

If it doesn't settle, I'm gonna have to break that party up. I left them alone this weekend so far as separating them, but I did make a point of being out there, cutting him away from her, then just hung out with him didn't react to any of her Heads Ups. He was calming down considerably, but it is telling as to his overall personality. It has been very interesting to see how the dynamics changed...

ALL the horses were acting 'fresh' Friday. ALL of them wanted to see the foal and 'talk' to Sally from across the fences, which made them all really hard to handle - but handle we did. They were just so distracted and not wanting to pay attention to us. Which was also interesting.


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## walkinthewalk

I think Trigger is a tch worse than my Joker --- there could be 100 horses and Joker would be at the bottom but he doesn't have as much "I have to RUN" in him as Trigger.

Joker would have been the '60's something hippie at the corner of Haight-Ashbury wearing peace beads, lollol

Joker and Trigger would make great pasture mates --- if they didn't scare each other to death, lollol

That's his sweet face in my avatar ---- a face that neverrrrr does anything wrong, is neverrrr afraid, and did not eat the cat food, lollol

***

Whar's some fotos of Nishkin? You aren't getting off that easy, lollol


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Trigger would be the strung out coke addict in the other corner. LOL 

Sally is the ONLY horse that hasn't tried to absolutely kill him out of our herd. Well. Oops. They were play buddies at first, now she's too bossy for him. Sally is also a low horse if we put them all together in one pasture. We had to keep her in with Trigger throughout her entire time with us because we were afraid Gina or Sarge might kick her belly.

But. Sally will fight 'for a place at the table' so to speak. Trigger is 100% flight horse. If he's in with the group in the winter, when we feed, he'd starve before fighting for food at the trough and they would drive him away from it. There isn't a bit of fight in him, and for that, I guess it's instinct for the others to drive him out. Were he in a wild band of horses, he'd be the guy they fed to a puma... if it could catch him. The positive side of this is - he has impeccable ground manners. He has never walked over me, he's never aggressively tried to snag a snack, never offered to kick, buck, or bite. OTOH - he has been known to ear or bolt and when trail riding in a group, if he's not in the lead, then he MUST HAVE HIS NOSE up someone's tail, which leads to getting warned, then given a 'following too closely citation' by the horse in front. 

I always joke, but it's the truth. He doesn't want to be the rear horse. The rear horse always gets eaten.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

BACK to Sally and Nishkin!

J and B brought their own wee one, their 9 month old son over to see the filly. Sally had the little stink on the far side of the pasture all day, so we walked allll the way over there with an 'offering' - a feed bucket with a nice mix of loose salt, feed, and rice bran. We took turns standing at a safe distance away and holding Wee Man while J and B eased around Sally and the filly. She was okay with them getting close, but we all had to be very careful to make ourselves seem 'small' and non-threatening. All you have to do is throw your shoulders back and pull your chin up for her to back her ears and swing her butt around... keep yourself quiet, low key, be very relaxed and almost lazy? She's just fine.

Anyway. J got to scratch the baby's butt. On walking back to the house, Sally, Trigger, and the baby followed us back, and B stopped at one point, kept her eyes lowered and just held her hand out, fingers slack. Sally stuffed her nose in her palm very quickly... and then the foal did the same thing (mimicking mom). Talk about making both their days!

Later, Sally let me scratch the baby's butt too, and that baby fine hair felt like silk.

Also... After hubs scared me by thinking there was bloody poop on the baby's back legs, and confirming it's 'packing grease' poop... I noticed Lucy, my heeler momma was hanging around way way too close to the baby's back legs, like she was going to sneak in a bite? But wasn't acting aggressive. Just intently focused on something.

Sally wasn't worried and doesn't run Lu off like she Dafni the bulldog - so I just watched...

Lucy was cleaning the baby up on the backside. *gags* I guess her pups are still so young she thinks ALL TEH BABIES MUST BE CLEAN, IDK. But hey, whatever works. If Sally is okay with it, I'm okay with it.


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## horseluvr2524

Another request/demand for new Nishkin pictures! Don't keep the cuteness all to yourself. You dragged HF into it and now you are stuck with us for ALLLL the growing up stages


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## AtokaGhosthorse

I'll get a bunch asap. LOL We had two lovely days this weekend (Friday and Saturday) and I wanted to concentrate more on not getting stomped to pudding by Sally than taking pictures.

Sunday we got our Easter Snap - raining and cold. I'm basically doing wellness checks, feeding them and staying out of the mud and the crud. I think tomorrow it's supposed to warm back up and be sunny. Will try to get more then.

And bless her heart. She's knock-kneed right now. IDK if they outgrow that or not.


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## phantomhorse13

AtokaGhosthorse said:


> She's knock-kneed right now. IDK if they outgrow that or not.


Normally they do - she will have all sorts of horrible looking growth spurts. Didn't you have those with Oops? 

Another voice here requesting more pics - filly and pups!


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## AtokaGhosthorse

phantomhorse13 said:


> Normally they do - she will have all sorts of horrible looking growth spurts. *Didn't you have those with Oops*?
> 
> Another voice here requesting more pics - filly and pups!


Oh we DID. But Oops was born two years ago - I hadn't found the forums, I didn't know squat about conformation and build then. Oops was born right before we got Trigger and tbh, I didn't even ride much then. I didn't even FEED the horses then. My son and daughter did, and we only had Nope (Oops' mom) and Superman at the time.

Daughter reminded me with some pictures this afternoon. Oops looked like a mini mule - all big ears and knobby knock knees her first week. I had her send me that pic today. I took a BUNCH out by the feed trough this evening and took some of the Brown Pony Brigade across the road (Supes, Gina, Oops, and Sarge). I just gotta get some food down me and figure out how to add pics to posts made from my phone.


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## EquineBovine

:lol: dogs are terrible. I have a friend whos working dogs LOVE calving time because they get to clean up the milky poos! Bloody disgusting but it makes them fat and happy and the calves look very good for it!


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## AtokaGhosthorse

She STOLE ONE OF TRIGGER'S CHESTNUTS THE OTHER DAY! Right off his leg! Just eased in there while I was brushing him, delicately bit down and with one swift yank!? She RAN OFF WITH IT TOO. 

Ew. And farrier day... they're like buzzards hovering, all the dogs.

Okay. Promised pictures of one very muddy medicine hat baby.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Lucy harassing the surprise bull calf (NONE of this group of heifers was supposed to be bred. Hubs walks out to feed one morning while I'm in Pilot Point, TX and sends me a pic that says: SURPRISE! Me: BONUS BURGER!)

and a closer view of the right eye...


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## JoBlueQuarter

How adorable!


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## EquineBovine

Its a Bovine Oops! So cute!


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## EquineBovine

Wooow that is a CUTE foal!! 
Poor Trigger! I would have been mortified :rofl: cheeky ******


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## horseluvr2524

That one random spot to the left (as in the foal's left) of her forehead is so distinctive... I know she's already technically named but it would be cool to name her for that marking. It looks a LOT like the shape of Australia. You could name her Outback, Durango, Sheila, Oceania (the name of the continent known as Australia), or even just Australia.

Just throwing an idea out. That marking is very striking. It really is shaped just like Australia.

She's a cute little ******! Hope you don't end up with too many more up the duff mares though :wink: (sorry, was having fun reading up on Aussie slang).


----------



## phantomhorse13

AtokaGhosthorse said:


> and a closer view of the right eye...


It will be interesting to see if that is a baby blue or a true blue eye. It seems fairly dark to be a true blue, but sometimes they can sure surprise you.


----------



## AtokaGhosthorse

phantomhorse13 said:


> It will be interesting to see if that is a baby blue or a true blue eye. It seems fairly dark to be a true blue, but sometimes they can sure surprise you.


The right eye won't surprise me if it turns brown. But. From what I can tell up close, it's a vivid blue except for one dip into the iris and that is more of a navy blue. We're wondering if it might turn out bi-colored. Do horses even have that? I tried googling it and couldn't find an image of one, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

The left eye we're 100% sure is staying blue. LOL


Edit:

AH HA! They can have partial colored eyes!


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Daughter is going to register the baby - so in light of the name suggestions... her registered name, if not already taken, will be Nishkin Okchakko; her barn name can be Outback. Because you're right! It does look like a map of Oz on her forehead. LOL

Also, she's cruisin' for a bruisin'. Sally has been infinitely patient with her, because she's a newborn, but she can lift Sally off both hind legs when she goes in to nurse! Then if she gets a warning to go gently, she'll stamp that wee hoof and then paw the ground. She also kicks out at Sally quite a bit. Sooner or later - she'll get a thump in the behind.


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## EstrellaandJericho

It looks like a little upside down heart over her left eye. So cute!!!


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## AtokaGhosthorse

And a tornado on her jaw. LOL


----------



## JoBlueQuarter

horseluvr2524 said:


> That one random spot to the left (as in the foal's left) of her forehead is so distinctive... I know she's already technically named but it would be cool to name her for that marking. It looks a LOT like the shape of Australia. You could name her Outback, Durango, Sheila, Oceania (the name of the continent known as Australia), or even just Australia.
> 
> Just throwing an idea out. That marking is very striking. It really is shaped just like Australia.
> 
> She's a cute little ******! Hope you don't end up with too many more up the duff mares though :wink: (sorry, was having fun reading up on Aussie slang).





EstrellaandJericho said:


> It looks like a little upside down heart over her left eye. So cute!!!





AtokaGhosthorse said:


> And a tornado on her jaw. LOL


That's some little horse you got in Nishkin!


----------



## EquineBovine

She got 'tude! Love it! Come on Sally! Teach her some manners girl!


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## AtokaGhosthorse

I so wish I could have a camera up and running when it happens.


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## GMA100

Aww!!!! She's so adorable!! Congrats!!


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## Change

She's just all legs and butt and ears - so freakin' cute!!! And I love the name Nishkin - not something you hear everyday. Outback is a cute name, too. Goes well with Oops and Nope. ;-) "What are the horses' names??" "Outback. Oops, Nope!" "I didn't ask where they were... I asked their names!" :-D


And we need puppy pictures!


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Change said:


> She's just all legs and butt and ears - so freakin' cute!!! And I love the name Nishkin - not something you hear everyday. Outback is a cute name, too. Goes well with Oops and Nope. ;-) "What are the horses' names??" "Outback. Oops, Nope!" "I didn't ask where they were... I asked their names!" :-D
> 
> 
> And we need puppy pictures!


And thus begins a hilarious, inadvertent Who's on First moment. 

I told my daughter today Sally looks like Sleipnir out there half the time. Nishkin's legs are so long that you can't see her belly around Sally's when she's standing on the other side of her. Sally looks like she has way too many legs.


----------



## anndankev

AtokaGhosthorse said:


> The right eye ... bi-colored. Do horses even have that?...


Ah, I see you have found that bi color eyes are possible by now. Here is my sister's mare, barn name Pengie, with white in her eye exactly where the point of the spur of her blaze is. This pic was not taken to show her eye though. I tried editing it to take the red out, but it doesn't show well. Also the mare is very unhappy to be stood between two geldings at the moment.











AtokaGhosthorse said:


> And a tornado on her jaw. LOL


Haha, another of sister's mares is Pickle. reg name Shadows Tornado, who had a 'tornado' on her hip. Of course it is on the side not pictured. LOL










So all in all, I and my pics are not much help. LOL

And the name Nishkin somehow makes me think of the Wizard of Oz. 
The Lollipop Gang I suppose.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

She's still a rowdy little stinker... if Sally has taken her down a peg or two, I've missed it. LOL She's also pretty spooky around us - Oops was never like that. She was all up in our business and playing with us within that first week. Once we get back from this seminar my husband has to attend tomorrow and the rest of the week, I'm going to have to start being out there a LOT with them. 

She will let me scratch her butt though... and sometimes very delicately, very quickly, touches my hand with her nose, and then she's gone.

Flighty little thing, all knock knees and gangly. LOL

Question: How long will Sally hang on to that 'baby belly'? She's still pot bellied and probably could do with a worming and she still needs her hooves done but she's so reactive right now, I mean you just breathe wrong and she's warning you to tread lightly. 

I don't remember with Nope how long it took - she was built more like a pony or a welsh cross, so she always looked fat.


----------



## EquineBovine

My big mare never seemed to loose the belly or her boobs after her second foal :lol: It's coming up three years now!!
My little mare lost it in a month I think but she's more like a TB type and generally fitter.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Okay, good. So no big deal. She still has a pot belly on her but her top line is coming back way, way better than we expected. She's looking better every day.

Also: New pictures!

SOMEONE SNIFFED THE PHONE!


----------



## JoBlueQuarter

How adorable is little Nishkin??  I love the pics of her trying to graze with Trigger!


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## AtokaGhosthorse

She's still a tiny tyrant. LOL

And I can't wait for Sally to shed completely out and get that glossy summer coat going and get her neglected hooves in shape. Her mane has grown out considerably since she came to us and it feels so much nicer to touch. 

I know the dead hair they shed out is yucky feeling anyway, but Sally's hair just felt terrible and it feels even nastier now that it's shedding out. Underneath all that old crappy hair though? She feels like silk. Her SKIN was even crepey when she got here. Not sure what caused that - maybe a lack of fats in her diet and dehydration/stress? IDK. She's going to look so much better though. Ready to get her properly cleaned up and groomed. I miss the evenings just standing with her and her big huge belly and brushing her in the pasture. She's just so relaxing to be around.

Glad to see now that she's not so mercurial now and isn't quite so touchy about us being around the baby. 
I worried her sweetness was all preggo hormones, but her lovey nature is back. She's a sweetie. Pushy and sometimes has to be reminded she's not the queen of the trough, but she's still sweet.


----------



## EquineBovine

They're all going to look lovely when their new coats come through. Yey for baby pics! She will be a lovely horse and fun to train with that sazz!  And yey for grandbaby pic too


----------



## AnitaAnne

That trio of yours is charming and the little Outback a precious gift. 

Subbing


----------



## Zexious

I absolutely love the baby. She's gorgeous <3 (So are the other two!)
Keep the pictures coming


----------



## EstrellaandJericho

What a blessing. Little girl is a keeper. If you want to sell her though I'm first in line!!


----------



## JoBlueQuarter

@EstrellaandJericho - Nu uh. I got here first! ;-)


----------



## AtokaGhosthorse

Yeaah. Hubs is seeing $$$ and I keep saying, yah, no. Sorry. She's a grade filly. So not worth anything. Nope. Not worth selling her... 

He's like, register her with the pinto people and... 

Nope. Can't.

I keep pointing out as the chief of our tribe, he doesn't want to give away or sell his good medicine he's been blessed with, but also since a Medicine/Spirit horse protects it's rider, and she's to be our granddaughter's horse???? He just grumbles and mutters. I suspect he's a reluctant recipient of such wonderful 'magic'. LOL

She's a cutie though. But as with almost all our horses, she IMMEDIATELY didn't like SIL2b. She was sniffing the back of my hand yesterday, the phone, anything of interest, but he steps up, squats down, holds his hand out too, and she backed those ears, snaked and kinda halfway charged him, then trotted off with a tiny buck. She was testing her boundaries with him but also playing, being sassy.... but he was crawfishing and scrambling away. *facepalm* Sooo, you just let her move you... WTG. You got ran at by a tiny little horse with knobby knees and terrible balance and you let her scare you... and now she knows it. SMH

Sarge is the only horse that likes him, btw. Bless him, he just doesn't speak horse yet. He can ride but as a friend of ours (The one with the roping horse that was apologized to by the drunk roper for disparaging the horse) said: There are people who can RIDE horses, and people who _horse_. You need to learn to _horse_.

SIL2B doesn't horse yet. We're working on that. We're starting with: Leave your ego in your truck.


BUT anyway. I'll keep the pics coming for sure!


----------



## GMA100

Well isn’t she just the cutest! I can just feel her soft lil nose <3


----------



## AtokaGhosthorse

Oh it's like velvet and silk, all in one. LOL

She's learning the importance of letting a human scratch her butt too.


----------



## BarbandBadgerandPedro

I remember reading The Medicine Hat Stallion...doesn't the brown breastplate also have significance? I miss having puppies & foals on the farm!! Our dogs are also heeler, Aussie & Border Collie mix...Dogs were almost TOO smart!!


----------



## AtokaGhosthorse

Some say it does, others no. Apparently the more white there is on a medicine horse, the more powerful they were believed to be. I'm guessing it depends on the tribe and their legends. Seems a broad group of Native Americans believed the same general legend, be they plains indians or those from the south - the Choctaw and Cherokee, but they all have little variations in the belief. 

Also, a blue eyed medicine hat was especially sought after by all the tribes.

No idea if the bi-colored eye on her just puts her right over the top or not. LOL

I keep thinking of the spirit horse/Silver on the Lone Ranger movie though and those scenes just leave me grinning. Sure, Silver is solid white, but the fun remains. LOL

And yes! That mix is TROUBLE on pups. Trouble of the best sort. Our Tex Heeler pups have figured out where the people stay - in the house, and now they hang out at the front door, super excited to see us every time that door opens.

Also, Buttercup is hanging in there. Vet was unable to get to her last week *grrr*. She's still so far behind the others, but we've started putting her out there with them, under supervision to make sure they don't play rough with her. It's remarkable how much that picks up her spirits. Hoping to have an answer on her issues soon (for those following what's up with her).


----------



## QtrBel

I was coming for an update on Buttercup. Glad she's hanging in there. Loving the pony pics! Such a beautiful baby!


----------



## AtokaGhosthorse

QtrBel said:


> I was coming for an update on Buttercup. Glad she's hanging in there. Loving the pony pics! Such a beautiful baby!


She's getting more and more active, she's dreaming more - running and barking in her sleep. She's lonely inside the house, but it would be SO easy for her to wobble off and get stuck somewhere we couldn't find her until it was too late or get hurt by the adult dogs who just want to play.

So, we supervise her time and let her sleep in the puppy pile on the porch as much as we can, but we're still isolating her and Lu for feed times, and we try to get Lu in the house before she feeds the bigger pups... who are now being introduced to puppy chow and home cooked 'dog stew' (unblanched rice, egg noodles, dark meat turkey that I've been hoarding for our own soups, ground deer burger). We're supplementing Lu's milk with puppy formula and soft puppy food that we mush up with a little more water and feed it to her warmed up.

Bo, the father, is at the house visiting through the weekend and he's been a doll with his own pups. Like Lu, he seems most concerned with Buttercup - they all know she's frail and isn't 'right' developmentally.

Vet has an appointment scheduled for her in the morning at 10:30.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Update on Sally:

FLIES are eating her UP. It seems so early in the year, but I guess not. They're the nasty black ones that swarm the cows. Last week, I didn't see a single one. We went out of town for four days, I noticed Monday there were a few harassing all the horses on the legs.

I noticed last night there's a lot of them and they've bitten Sally on the back legs so much her hair is coming out. Looks like patches of mange.

*sigh*

So, we read up on the Tri-Tec 14 to make sure it's safe for a nursing mare. Appears to be so long as the foal is not downwind and we avoid areas around the bag. 

I let her sniff the bottle, managed to get in one tiny spritz on her left front ankle and OH HELL NO! YOU DID NOT JUST SPRAY THA.... WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING!? I TRUSTED YOU!

SO much horsey drama. 

It took nearly an hour to convince her I wasn't going to let the bottle eat her, and she was okay with it being touched to her shoulder, all the usual stuff you do to help them 'get over it'. But the second I turned it in my hand as if to spray, here we'd go again.

I noticed the same kind of flies have a patch chewed up on Supe's back - his short scrubby little tail just isn't effective for keeping his back cleared.

Annnd guess who else loses their mind over the fly spray bottle...

It ain't Trigger.

So. This weekend we are going to just have to have a worming and fly treatment party. Just round everyone up, get it all out of the way. Sponge it on Sally and Supes. 

Everyone else is okay with the spray. EVEN M'BOY TRIGGER! 

Gina isn't a fan, but tolerates it. She kinda gives us that: I hate you. No really. I hate you. look and her ears don't really lay back, but you can tell she's irked but going to stand there.

Sarge just does not care . This is Sarge: Oohhhh Hiiiiii. I love you... do you love me? I love YOU more! *Me: Dude, get off me... * Sarge: Are there snacks? Can I have snacks? Hey, I thought you were giving me snacks... no? That sandwich of yours looks lovely... I bet there's cheese on it. I love cheese. No? Can't have? But brushing and grooming? Okay, I love that too... How about a bath? Can I have a bath? OOO SHE'S GOT THE HOSE! I LOVE THE HOSE!

Oops: Hey! Mom! Whacha got! Can I have it!? (No. It's poison) But I want it! Oh, hey! Would ya lookit that! Your flap is unbuttoned on your back pocket. Let me help you with that... *tugs and pulls on the flap, then nuzzles your cheek* I love you... (She has been known to depants the boys if they are wearing baggy jeans and no belt. She's also de-dressed me once when I was wearing one of those summery tube top maxi dresses...YE HAW).

Everyone needs their hooves cleaned out too... so. Big grooming party will be had. 

Nishkin btw is still sassy and for someone not even 3 weeks old yet, thinks she's running something. She's naturally nervous around everyone, but she's getting more and confident we won't eat her.


----------



## JoBlueQuarter

LOL My Blue must be distantly related to Sally. As soon as any type of a spray bottle comes out it's "YOU'RE TRYING TO KILL ME DON'T KILL ME I'M NOT READY TO DIE PASO, HEIDI, HELLLP!"! Needless to say, that's when all hell breaks loose and you better hope you tied her up good or you'll have a runaway horse!

It's silly that these horses are. I mean, that bottle is tiny and it freaks them out.


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## QtrBel

I'd wipe it on with a rag for now. One of mine is in the small pen because of a basketball size hematoma on the inside of her back leg. Just how the heck does that happen.... anywho the pen is alongside where the cows lay at night and she has no hair and now the skin seems to be sloughing in paper thin pieces but not oozy so residue from fly spray????? Oh well.


----------



## AtokaGhosthorse

Oh, Sally was DONE. I got one spritz in while we were just hanging out in the pasture and she was GONE. 

Trigger was just: Iiii don't see what the big deal is... Why are you scared, OMG WHAT ARE YOU SCARED OF! SHOULD I BE SCARED TOO!? Maybe I should be! 

Interestingly enough, last summer after about a 15 minute primer/conversation about fly spray, Trigger was totally cool with it. Sure we had to take it slow, discuss, rub the bottle on his shoulder and ribs, then belly, then gently spritz his ankles, but he seems thoughtful enough to realize A. NOT GONNA EAT HIM; B. Relief! 

It also comes with delicious snacks before and after, and lots of praise and brushing and loving.

THIS summer, it will come with a bath first. He is a dirty, dirty horse.


----------



## QtrBel

Glad to hear Buttercup is spending time with the bigs. We worried constantly about Hills. She went to work with me and baby until she was much older.


----------



## AtokaGhosthorse

QtrBel said:


> Glad to hear Buttercup is spending time with the bigs. We worried constantly about Hills. She went to work with me and baby until she was much older.


Honestly considered bringing her to work with me, but the daughter is also staying at our house through the weekend - her bathroom is being remodeled. With her staying at the house, she can supervise the puppy visitation/snoozing together/accelerated feeding times.

Did talk to a friend of mine that runs a doggie rescue, and she's nursed many an orphaned puppy or litter in the past.

She said it's very possible since this was Lu's first cycle AND first litter, it was just 'the way it goes sometimes'. She doesn't think its a genetic issue, just a misfire on nutrition in the womb that resulted in some very weak pups this first go around. So far as the feeding, the snuggling, the baths with a warm cloth, supervising litter time with her siblings and 'mom' time alone with Lu, we're doing everything exactly right.

Hopeful the vet will give us some good news tomorrow.


----------



## AtokaGhosthorse

QtrBel said:


> I'd wipe it on with a rag for now. One of mine is in the small pen because of a basketball size hematoma on the inside of her back leg. Just how the heck does that happen.... anywho the pen is alongside where the cows lay at night and she has no hair and now the skin seems to be sloughing in paper thin pieces but not oozy so residue from fly spray????? Oh well.


That's exactly what we're going to have to do. I have no idea how Sally is going to handle having to be haltered up - she's had bad, bad experiences in the past and I don't think her severe Roman nose is entirely from breeding. It genuinely looks to have been broken at some point in the past, right where the halter band falls across the lower part of her face. Maybe she does just have a very pronounced bend... but Iiii am not so sure.

And with Nishkin here? Lord only knows how she's going to take it all. She's still a sweet girl, just on overdrive with protective/defensive reactions.

We invested in a new bag of peppermint treats yesterday. It worked for Trigger last year, hoping they'll work as currency for Sally now. I'm going to start tonight walking out there with a halter and lead and a pocketful of prizes for good behavior.


----------



## BarbandBadgerandPedro

Did you say she may have been a breeder mare? May be used to handling with a head collar but not halter... some times less is more.


----------



## AtokaGhosthorse

We are assuming she was. Being a kill pen horse, I believe NOTHING the sellers told my daughter. Personally, after the vet checked her age (She's almost twice as old as advertised - she's 10-12, not 5-6) and the vet said she's had several foals before, I am assuming a brood mare. She was sold as the fabled 'kids horse'. 

Fortunately that's not why my daughter bought her. We don't NEED a kid's horse. We have one. 

Anyway, she WILL take a halter and has in the past with us. She's just been left alone so far as handling on a lead for the last few months of her pregnancy, and now that baby is here, she's enjoying being difficult at times. I didn't even take the halter out there last night, just a catch rope and she sees it, and POOF. She's gone. No rope in sight? I can't run her off.

I will probably have to move Trigger out first so she doesn't look to safety in numbers by trotting off with him. I want her to look to me, and I'll just reward her generously with treats until she quits dodging the rope, then work with the halter. Our old Supes is the same way, so we go with bribes and keep him guessing as to what may befall him when we get him up to the tie ups... Will he be saddled up today and ridden? Just saddled up and loved on but not ridden? Will there be snacks? Delicious feed? Maybe just a grooming session?

I think with just a little time spent with a rope and bribes, I'll have her okay with the halter.


----------



## AtokaGhosthorse

Had Sally accepting a rope halter last night, even doing just fine using the lead rope as a catch rope. She'd follow me anywhere, stop when I stopped, back up if I backed up, back up if I asked her to. Took a pocket full of peppermint treats and about an hour though. She even let me check her feet, which are over grown and in bad need of a trim - farrier is going to do his best to get out tomorrow, he's just covered over with it being spring and he's the only one in this area I trust with our horses. 

Anyway. 

Then I fell into a Trust Hole with her.

Before that though, and I did not get pix or video - she and Trigger decided to kick up and play a little. They ran huge circles around me, prancing and kicking out, farting for joy, tails up, just digging into the dirt with those front hooves. Nishkin bounded right along with them. Looks like she's on springs and rubber balls. That tiny tail looked like a whitetail's, just straight up and flagging.

It was an absolute joy to watch them show off, even if it was a horsey demonstration of strength. I always let them show off like that if there's no serious need to handle them, like the farrier is there or its worming time, for Trigger, time to saddle up, stuff like that. Once they're done, they always come to me and snuffle me as if to say: Did you see that!? Did we look good? We looked good, right? Strong and brave? Like maybe not lunch for a walmart bag strong?

Except for that giant trust hole, it was a wonderful evening hanging out with them. Nishkin is still unsure of our intentions when we try to touch her, but she's tapping us with her nose more and more, moving away less and less.


----------



## AtokaGhosthorse

Just an update. Pictures are from last weekend.

Nishkin... Outback... remains aloof. She's not like Oops at ALL. Oops was all in our back pockets within days of being born, laying in my daughter's lap napping in the sun after about 4 days of being born.

NOT OUTBACK. She's a peel, and a dominant personality. Oops, in comparison, was always 'clever' and curious about everything. She wanted to play tag with us, followed us around, and was generally like a dog with hooves.

Outback wants NO PART of us. Any attempts to do more than scratch her butt result in her getting her mom in between she and me, or anyone else that tries. She's glued to Trigger though, more so than even her mother. She was getting bossy with Sally and Trigger both - then I put Oops in there, and for Oops to just be 2 1/2, she wasn't going to put up with any nonsense. They came to an understanding.

She and I came to an understanding this evening... or maybe not... but eventually it'll sink in. Every time I would touch her while I was loving on Sally or Trigger, she'd back her ears, stalk toward me and snake at me, then flip her butt around and swing it toward me in a kick threat.

The first couple of times, Sally calmly moved in between us. Third time, Oops intervened.

Fourth time, Sally and Oops left her to her fate.

I beat her rear end with my croc. 

She quit for a little while, then did it one more time. That time, I was turned broadside to her and Sally, and she thought I was ignoring her, but I absolutely was not. I was watching her the entire time. She stuck out that neck, pinned her ears tight, and moved in to bite, and I popped with a snap-backhand on the snout just as she moved in for the kill. Then went right back to ignoring her. Water under the bridge.

I smacked a Surprise Fart out of her though. She reared and bucked a little, trotted around like she was tattling on me, then settled down... but kept Trigger between us for the rest of the evening and kept a wary eye on me. I acted like nothing ever happened.

She's gonna have to get over herself. Can't have her growing up into a spoiled mugger of humans. No ma'me. 

The ONLY think I can think of that might have 'provoked' a response is if by scratching her on the butt, like I do all the adult horses, she thought it was me, biting her on the butt. Dunno, but I'm going to figure it out and so is she. I figure it's just age-appropriate 'testing' to see who's the high horse - and it ain't her. It's not jealousy - she didn't give a fig for me petting Sally, Oops, or Trigger this evening. Only when I touched her did she back her ears and come at me.


----------



## Dustbunny

She's a cutie pie! Does she have blue eyes? I'm such a sucker for big blue eyes.


----------



## JoBlueQuarter

Lil' Nishkin got 'tude! *smh* Not good, not good at all BUT SO FLIPPIN ADORABLE! :lol:


----------



## Hidalgo13

The baby and momma are sooo beautiful! Looking forward to seeing how they progress.


----------



## QtrBel

I'm feeling the time crunch. usually summer is for catching up on threads and watching babies grow. Speaking of how is that adorable little Tx Heeler?


----------



## EquineBovine

Snarky lil madam. Nip that in the bud quick smart haha Still very cute though <3


----------



## AtokaGhosthorse

Just an update. Per vet's recommendation (And I wholeheartedly agreed) Sally and Nishkin, who is more commonly called Outback, were separated 5-6 weeks ago. Outback is solely in with Gina and Oops (Both are dominant females, Gina is old enough to be a mare, she's 6 now, Oops is coming 3, neither will put up with 'tude).

Outback has remained untrusting of people, but she stopped the bite and kick threats after I beat her with my Croc for it the first few times. It took more than once, and her momma wasn't helping because she'd run interference with ANYONE who tried to correct her. In fact, she tried to get between Outback and Sarge the first day they were all together in one pasture, and Sarge wouldn't put up with either of them. He chased them all over the place for about two days. They were much better behaved after that, but still problematic. Outback did her best to be annoying and 'dominant' and Sally would always save her bacon, or try.

The separation has fixed that little problem. Superman is in with Sally and Trigger - he lets her know real quick she's not running anything. He'll share feed with Trigs always, but if Sally comes in all bossy and big butt about it, he'll thrash her good. 

Outback had to be kept in the round pen a little and slowly convinced humans were not out to get her, no she won't get beat with a big rubber clog if she behaves. Now she's in with the 'big girls' and she's gotten very gentle.

I've included pictures from tonight. Daughter actually LISTENED TO ME when I explained approach gently, then retreat if she gets antsy, wait, approach, retreat. The pictures are the final result. Thank goodness she's listening to me and not the rough 'cowboy it out of them' types. I guess that might work for some horses, but so far I've found this way works better, at least with ours. 

This evening was spent in the company of my kids and all our horses.

Big sorrel is Gina, husband's mare and local favorite to ride. She's the one who nearly got the ends of my fingers last weekend. Little bay filly is Miss Oops, and of course, Outback needs no explanation.


----------



## phantomhorse13

woohoo! that looks like huge success to me.


----------



## greentree

So pretty! Glad you got them settled!


----------



## PoptartShop

Awww, really pretty!  Looks great, glad everything worked out & it fixed the problem!


----------



## AtokaGhosthorse

TY. We're currently battling rain rot with Outback. Poor baby... it's been an unusually humid, warm, and STILL summer for SE Oklahoma and I had no idea how high maintenance is of a pink skinned pony until Sally and Outback came along. Sally has patches of it, but Outback? Ye Gads.


At the recommendation of DreamCatcher, We're investing in injectable A-DE. It's just too much to try a more topical approach. Trigger even 'caught' a small patch of it this summer. I was able to get his under control with a Mane & Tail spray, but his wasn't nearly as extensive - he has far more brown on him than white.


I've also started them ALL on a daily worming pellet supplement and biotin. The baby has been wormed once already, by accident - she ate the dose Gina spit out - but she was difficult to catch again when it was time to back that worming up. By the time she gentled, she was already showing signs of being wormy again. I figured I'd just spread the joy and get them all, every night, until this is fully under control. The biotin is for Gina's hooves, but Outback seems to have softer hooves than Oops ever had (Oops has amazing feet), so I figured once again, I'll just get them all.



Outback now comes at a trot, nickers and seems happy to see us. I am under no illusions - it's the time of year when we start switching over from pasture grass to hay and feed. We're the chuck wagon, but that's okay. It works, it gets her up, she's glad to see us, and associates us with All Good Things.


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## 279163

I know this is late in the game, just responding to a comment about why horses end up at auction - particularly the remark about it costing $1200 for a rendering service. 

Where do you live where it costs that much? I'm in the Dallas area, when my old mustang gelding passed it cost me $250 to have him hauled away for burial. They were helpful and kind about it too. That was a bit more than other quotes too, but they actually buried him - not send him to a plant. 

So no, there's no excuse to send a horse to auction like that. A LOT of people told me to do that, send him off. It's economical, they said. No freaking way, he was a champ with the kids. Was a baby sitter for 25 years before I got him, and was a baby sitter for mine too. They deserve to be loved through their twilight.


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## AnitaAnne

Bas180001 said:


> I know this is late in the game, just responding to a comment about why horses end up at auction - particularly the remark about it costing $1200 for a rendering service.
> 
> Where do you live where it costs that much? I'm in the Dallas area, when my old mustang gelding passed it cost me $250 to have him hauled away for burial. They were helpful and kind about it too. That was a bit more than other quotes too, but they actually buried him - not send him to a plant.
> 
> So no, there's no excuse to send a horse to auction like that. A LOT of people told me to do that, send him off. It's economical, they said. No freaking way, he was a champ with the kids. Was a baby sitter for 25 years before I got him, and was a baby sitter for mine too. They deserve to be loved through their twilight.


Fully agree. I have mine buried too, and the cost is minimal, the last one was $350 for euthanasia and burial by my vet for my 28 yr old last November. I miss him a lot, he was a great horse.


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## 279163

Oh yeah, it was a year for us this past January. 

I still cry over that horse. He was spectacular, I'll spend the rest of my life looking for another one like him.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Just another update. IDK if I've mentioned it here.

Sally was sent to stay with G, who starts horses and rides the rust off older horses every single day. She's a fourth generation horseman and it shows. She's not a cowboy them out sort.

Sally would intentionally rear and try to go over with her, she'd reach around and clamp down on G's shin and try to jerk her out of the saddle. She bit, she kicked, she pawed, she bucked.

Most concerning was the rearing. It wasn't out of fear or pain - it was intentional. The biting and kicking was already something we were aware of... She's why we couldn't handle Outback very much as a foal because she'd try to beat us down and she was teaching Outback to act just as dangerous and rude.

She was sold to a junior rodeo livestock contractor who is also a several times over horseman. She nearly killed him to.

I don't know what her ultimate fate was, and I don't like to think that it was probably a one way trip to Old Mexico after that, but it's possible. 

I can't fault my daughter for buying Sally - her heart was in the right place and at the time, neither of us knew they couldn't ship a pregnant horse to Mexico for slaughter. She bought her thinking she was saving not just one life, but two. Sally was sweet and loving while pregnant, but once Outback hit the ground?

She was a nightmare and a dangerous one. She was going to get someone killed and I'm pretty sure it's because she was taught to be like that or spoiled.

Outback is just as introverted as her momma was, but she's hopefully going to have a very different life. I traded a saddle to my daughter for Outback. She is now mine, and she is wearing a halter and dragging a lead rope around in the small horse pasture 24/7. Her attitude has changed drastically in the past month, and I'm hopeful she will make a good trail riding horse for me when it comes time to retire Trigger.


Pix from the past month - the one where she's grazing is in the dog pen - it's too small to get our mower in there and we don't own a push mower. So rather than use the weedeater, I just put Outback or Trigger in there from time to time. Takes about 12 hours for a horse to 'mow' it completely.


The one by the boats, Son was trying to help Hubs back up to a boat trailer. Outback was all up in his business and he'd just found her scratch spot in her mane. That's him, making faces and talking to her as she was starting to curl up. Also, she tossed her head a tiny bit and streeettcchhheeed her neck and he had just jerked his head back to keep from accidentally getting whapped in the face. It was simply a weirdly timed snap of the camera. LOL


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Another update: Outback has been trotting up to see me, nickering greetings, and coming right up to me, rather than skirting around and running off. 



I took the halter off Friday when I got home, to see how she would act without it. Still in my pocket is how she acted. As of this morning, she's still racing up to say hi, without the halter and lead rope. I'm considering her early parole as time off for good behavior. Hopefully she'll stay in this frame of mind and we won't have to repeat the rope dragging portion of her education.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Still on good behavior. She won't take food or snacks from my hand, and in some ways that's way better than being like her momma, who would be very food aggressive, whip in hand or no whip sometimes. I noticed Outback will move in close, drop her head to eye level with whatever I'm offering her and then swing her head away from me, and pull a face. 

So I started watching her when I feed Supes... she does the same thing to him, but in reaction to him warning her off his feed. I feel like she may be treating me like the high horse/trough king, but I can't be sure, I could be misinterpreting what she's doing, but it doesn't feel aggressive. It feels 'tight', very tense, like she's expecting someone to put a beat down on her for horning in on food or snacks. She isn't swinging her butt around to me, like her momma used to do in a kick threat. She just turns her head away from me, ears slightly backed, but not pinned. She is watching me the entire time.

I could be wrong, so do feel free to throw in any thoughts on this. She's never, ever behaved badly toward people since getting her away from Sally, just intensely introverted.

I did get her to finally take one shy nibble of some of Superman's senior feed out of my palm as a reward for paying attention and being led around with nothing but a catch rope draped over her neck. As a reward for THAT she got a double handful placed on the grass and me moving away so she could enjoy it without fear of being driven off it.

So, anyway.

She's still coming to me at a fast clip, sometimes a full trot. Enthused neighing, the whole shebang. Doesn't matter if I have feed or not. I spent some time in the pen with her this weekend, Friday I think, and she never ever ran from me, even when Red (Daughter's horse) did. In fact, she would stand in the middle, behind me, calmly, and watch me keep Red's feet moving until she gave me two eyes. Outback has figured out it's not her I want moving when she's in the pen with Red.

Long story as to why on earth I'd have two... oorrrr three... horses in the same pen. Won't try to explain here, it's just one of those things that you just have to be there to get the why of it. It's not ideal and it doesn't happen often, but when it does, I'm just glad Outback doesn't feel compelled to drive the other horse or let it create a draw that pulls her along.

I've found more scratchy spots than just her butt. She's learned to ask for those spots to be itched. She's walking beside me, stopping when I stop, backing up when I ask for it. She's being respectful, but her wanting her butt scratched has alarmed at least a few people who think she's turning to kick.

Nooooo no. Just scraaaatttcchhh that booty! I'd rather she ask for her neck scratchy spot to be scratched though, so I'm moving away from the butt scratching thing. It was good to get her started wanting attention from humans, but for the wrong person it can be scary. I don't mind it... Gina and AJ both do it, and I know what they're asking for. Other people don't, so... yeah.

It's about time to start her learning to load, have a saddle pad on her back, and stand tied. In fact, it's probably a year over due, but again. Couldn't get her away from her rude momma. Even seeing her in the other pasture seemed to encourage Outback to be just as big a heifer as Sally was.

I hate Sally probably ended up in Mexico, but it wasn't from a lack of trying to get her lined out. I think she was just older, set-set in her ways, and had probably always been used as a baby factory and never taught any real manners. She was intentionally dangerous and hard headed, and that's the kind of horse that will get someone hurt or killed.

Oh yes! I've had these days where I look at Outback and think, wow. Ewe neck much? Or... geez, is she cow hocked? Why is her butt so high, her front end so downhill? Yeah, I know, she's in that 5th grade school picture ugly stage... but this weekend... I noticed she's leveled off some (for now), pot belly is diminishing, and the whole cow hock thing seems to be correcting itself. She may always be a tad bit cow hocked, IDK, but I'm hoping she outgrows it.

Here's some weekend pictures. I caught her blinking in that one.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Hubs sold the bremers last week. The new owner came to pick them yesterday, so that meant Outback and Supes had to be tied while we borrowed their pasture for the round pen. Red was left loose - she didn't want any part of what was going on in the 'round' pen turned feed lot, so she was out of the way.

I took advantage of Outback having to be tied - she got a little bit of a glow up - thoroughly brushed out, the wind knots in her mane soaked with Aussie Miracle conditioner and picked out, her feet handled, and... then... since she was so chill about having to stand tied, alone, where she couldn't see any other horses at all, we decided to try something on for size. 

Little Sister has come a long, long way in a very short time. She still needs a LOT more ground work - she's a bit skitzy on being led, but she does try to stay to the side and stop when I stop, she just sometimes get distracted or walking a little too fast. She's backing up on request quite nicely though. 

I led her around with the saddle perched on her back... and of course, it slid off and took the pad with it - I knew it would, that was an exercise to see how she reacted. She jumped and blew a little, wanted to sniff it, so of course I let her. Suddenly that saddle pad was WAY MORE SCARY when I picked it up off the ground. She did some really nice lunging circles around me while I held it out for her to see and sniff again. About three passes and it wasn't so scary anymore, she stopped, approached, sniffed it. I rubbed it on her shoulder and back again. It was all good. On the bright side, teaching her to lunge has done nothing but confuse her, so there's that. LOL

Her reward was being turned out on the 40 with Trigger, Gina, and Supes. She cut loose with more playing and bucking than I think she's ever done before - she was always such a serious foal and now, filly. But she's coming along, and I'm liking her more and more. Next weekend we'll work on the saddling, and this time, cinching - I have a trash saddle I want to use, not Gbaby's saddle, that way if all hell breaks loose, she won't destroy babygirl's saddle. 

Also going to start working on loading one night this week. Gonna start by trying the coaxing in with a feed bucket and gentle pressure and release, letting her sniff and get comfortable with it. Using the stock trailer instead of my slant so it doesn't seem like a METAL BOX OF DEATH to her.

PS. I know her toes are a little long and she needs her first trim, but she's just now to the point she's okay having her feet handle. I've been working on that so our farrier doesn't have a helluva time trimming her the first time. Also, I had someone mistake the muddy brown patch on her muzzle for blood from what they thought was a huge head wound on her face. The mud is actually slobbery protein tub goo, and the 'wound' is from battling Supes at the trough for said protein tub. She lost, skinned her face on the trough. It's a very shallow scrape, very little 'wound' there to treat.


***I mean, just look at that last picture. She looks like she's going to explode into action at any moment, right?***


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Hey Admin - how could I make this thread into a Blog and change the title? Or can that be done?


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## QtrBel

Do you mean journal? Just go to first post and use report feature. For reason request a move to member journals.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

QtrBel said:


> Do you mean journal? Just go to first post and use report feature. For reason request a move to member journals.



That's what I needed to know! My brain was groping for the word journal and kept coming up with blog.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

So, since her education is about to begin in earnest this coming weekend, I thought I'd convert this thread to a journal about her alone.


Anyone curious, Nishkin Okchakko is Choctaw for Blue Eyes. She will be two at the end of March (I honestly thought she was born the end of February!).


Initially, she belonged to my daughter, as did Sally, the dam. Sally was sold, Outback stayed with us. When my daughter continually did nothing to help gentle Outback down and work with her, I offered to trade her a 12" highback kid's saddle for Outback. Truth was, that saddle was for my grandbaby anyway, but I knew she wasn't going to turn loose of Outback without some incentive and I didn't want the constant bickering over who she belonged to if I just claimed ownership. In fairness, Daughter did buy the mother and Outback was a bonus, so... 



Anyway! Looking forward to starting her!


Right now, we're getting back to handling her feet and picking hooves - her toes are getting too long and she needs a trim. She needs to learn to load in the slant, to stand tied, to stand tied while saddled, and to be hauled in a trailer, and to stand tied at slightly chaotic areas like rodeo grounds. I want her ready to go camping this spring/summer, and to be ponied along in a saddle.


When she's physically and mentally ready, Grace is going to start her for me. I'm going to go as far as I can with her myself... and if she tells me she's okay with me getting the saddle that first time - I'll do it.


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## PoptartShop

How exciting! :smile: It is definitely a process, but I think she will do well. Step by step. This is definitely something to look forward to! She's so cute, I love her face markings; super unique. Hopefully she will be good with the trimming too!


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## AtokaGhosthorse

PoptartShop said:


> How exciting! :smile: It is definitely a process, but I think she will do well. Step by step. This is definitely something to look forward to! She's so cute, I love her face markings; super unique. Hopefully she will be good with the trimming too!



I'm hoping she'll be as good as Oops was her first time. Except for being done with it and bored by Hoof #3, Oops did great, like she's done it 100 times before. Outback has let us pick her hooves any time we've wanted to in the past, so hopefully she'll be okay with Tony trimming and filing them down.


But yeah, super excited about the weekend. The weather will be nice - upper 50s to mid 60s by Sunday. It's too muddy to use the pen or trail ride - the trails are soup or flooded completely right now - but my trailer is right in the front yard on high ground, parked in the circle drive. 



I think Friday will be grooming/glow up day, which will require standing tied and hooves picked. That way I can investigate if it's mud in her hairs or rain rot making it clump and stand up a little in patches. We'll see how well she does as the afternoon goes by.


Saturday may be a saddle up and stand there doing nothing at the trailer day.


Sunday will be trailer loading day and a lot of standing there, doing nothing, tied at the trailer.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Also - she has YET to take snacks from our hands. I think there's been two occasions she's been willing to take a treat. One was one of Trigger's peppermint treats I offered her, and she kept bringing her nose to it in my hand, then dropping her head below my palm... no matter how low I offered the treat, she'd drop her head just to the side of my hand, then lower than my hand and wait. She finally, very shyly, took it from my fingers. Hasn't done it again.

Kristyn got her to take a carrot one afternoon from her hand.

This makes the 'currency' thing kinda hard if you're thinking in terms of tangible things (snacks) for bribery or reward. And it's not that she doesn't love a treat - she'll eat them all day long if you just drop them in the trough or at her feet.

More than anything I've found, she would rather have you stand right behind her and scrub her booty down... she'll go so far as to swing her hiney around and back up to you - which scares a lot of people to do know horses and a lot who don't.

They think she's lining up to kick.

Nahhhh, she just wants her butt scratched... And then I'm hugging this horse's behind and scrubbing and scratching it while she's curling up in delight. LOL


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Got very little done this weekend, despite the gorgeous weather. The flu, or something like it, laid us low. Yesterday I was still weak and shaky, but couldn't take it anymore, went outside. All I got done with Outback was some standing tied, tried on a way too big saddle just to gauge her reaction (faked out the cinch with just the tie strap, also to see how she felt about something around her belly), picked out some enormous dreadlocks in her mane, worked on picking up all four feet and letting me hold them.

Tried the trailer thing - let someone else try 'their magic' which is to say CA magic, which works for an older horse being a patoody head about loading. Not so great for a youngster - Outback isn't 2 quite yet) who's never been in a trailer. I salvaged the day with some comfort and chillin' with her head in the trailer, but not her feet. She managed getting only one foot in yesterday, and that's before she became emotionally compromised. Gonna have to try something different with her, and it's going to be me that does it.

Ended the day on a high note - she picked up flexing/giving me her head after just one or two miscues. Pictures from yesterday. She was supervised the entire time.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Okay. Weather this weekend, after the big Ice Storm Scare of 2020, is supposed to be upper 50s to upper 60s. Trailer is still parked on high ground in front of the house... which has my husband raging. LOL

Long story short, J is the one who has tried to help me teach her to load. J's ideas are correct, but having to just sit back and watch since I was so weak, I learned a lot about what she's doing wrong. 

She's skipping the first baby steps - Outback has NO idea why she should load up, so won't. And then enough time, all the time Outback needs, to allow her to really process the ask is not being granted, so she's losing her sense of curiosity and then it just becomes a battle of wills, high emotions, and then... she's mentally gone... and on top of it, too much at one time is being asked of her... without that time to process and without enough positive reinforcement for the tiniest of trys. 



J isn't exploiting Outback's 'currency' which is the butt scratching as a reward. I noticed she's REALLY skittish around Outback's rear end - seems to keep thinking Outback asking to have her booty scrubbed as a reward is her thinking about offering to kick... and I get why. AJ and Gina are the same way - a massive horse behind, coming at you in a big swing around can be alarming if you're not aware of the love of the booty being scratched. I used to think the same thing until I had a friend of ours, who was once a barrel racer and is still a lover of equines, laugh, all but pounce on Gina's rear, and start scrubbing. Nah! She just wants that big old booty scrubbed! 

I tried to explain to J that if she'll scratch Outback realllly good around where her tail joins to the body, Outback will not just immediately start to relax, but she'll lift her tail and move it to the side for you. J remains unsure, and possibly, secretly a little alarmed, which confuses Outback since I've never been concerned about her butt scratching love (Thanks to friend and Gina that day) That's how I convinced Outback that people are good to have around... when she was still wanting to 'hide' from me in the pen, I worked on finding her favorite places to scratch, would get her loving it, then walk away. After an afternoon of doing this, and discovering It's All About Her Rear End and right at the base of her right ear, I could do all kinds of stuff with her so long as I quietly praised her and rewarded her with the lavish physical affection... to her, grooming. She associates it with All the Good Things.

Been watching a lot of people on Youtube with videos, and from what I can tell, that's the entire problem. Not enough time to process, not enough praise in her preferred currency, getting emotionally compromised and frustrated (Both her and the human), and when that happens, her curiosity vaporizes.

She's also very friendly with Trigger, has been since she hit the ground. I am considering letting her watch him load and unload and stand around bored in the trailer some to see if she learns by his example.

I will be investing in a Dressage Whip - the sort that's a stick, not with a string on it, and I'm also going to work on the whole control and personal space thing, having learned where a horse's drive line is. I kinda knew, but wasn't sure. She needs a LOT of ground work on leading and trusting me to follow me where I go, even if it's into a Steel Box of Death.

More time will be spent grooming her, making sure she stays relaxed, curious, and receptive, and less will be asked of her in one session. Going to keep working on holding her feet for longer periods of time - she really needs her first trim, she's not BAD right now, but it's time. She's fine with feet holding right now, but maybe not for as long as it will take to trim her. Tony, our farrier, is a great guy, he understands horses quite well, but I want him to brag on her for her first trim. LOL

I'm not a fan of how he wiggles the rope and shanks a horse as much as he does, I like tapping the rope with the stick better, but his fundamental information is spot on, IMO. His videos about control and personal space just reinforced what @*Dreamcatcher Arabians* has explained to me, and what I learned at the lesson I took in Stillwater a few weeks ago. Same principles apply.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Oh yeah. I ordered Outback's first halter, her very own. She outgrew foal halters a long time ago, and the rope halters are meh. Kinda okay fitting on her, but still too big. She's getting a snazzy Fiesta Stripe and black halter in a 'small' size. Good news is, even with Trigger full grown, a small is his size too. So if and when she outgrows it, I can pass it on to him. I think Whiskey the Mustang is going to have too big of a head, even now as a yearling, to wear a small.


Probably not the best thing that I discovered how to get to the Amazon Warehouse. They have a lot of horse tack that is either overstock or a returned item, in varying condition. Spurs, lead ropes, supplements, wormer, you name it... it's just the quantities are very limited and sometimes you may order A Thing, and someone else does too, a few seconds ahead of you, and it takes Amazon a while to figure out they need to cancel your order and refund the money (A few days, to a week). 



So just be aware if you elect to plunder the wealth of stuff there at a discount. You may, or may not, get it. Have a Plan B if it's something you need-need.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Yesterday was a very good day. For the MOST part, Outback had to just stand tied at my trailer while I worked on a saddle on the front porch. She wasn't happy. She pawed, she dug, she hollered, she paced, and promptly pooped in her water bucket, kicked it over, and stomped the poop and water to slurry on the ground.

She got to stand right there... from 11 am to 5ish.

When she'd calm down, cock a foot and drop her head, I'd take a break from the saddle cleaning, and walk over with a curry comb and apple slices... and Keebler Club crackers... (indeed all men... and horses... have their price. I found her currency in snacks yesterday lol). I brushed her out, loved on her, picked up and held her feet, picked them clean, scratched her belly and all the booty...made sure she didn't want water - she didn't - and would sing along to George Strait which was playing on my blu tooth speaker on the porch. She only got the loves when she'd settle down, and process. Not just because she stood still for 30 seconds. She had to fully relax and think it over... then I rewarded her for being calm.

We had a few hissy fits, and she did think she could sit back and pop the halter off her head. First picture below. She stood like that for two or three whole minutes... I just kept cleaning the saddle. All drama was ignored by me. At one point after the video, we got a little crow hop or two and some mild rearing because she was still antsing around, and the neighbor kids were tearing up and down the road on the other side of the trailer in a side by side... and gunned it dead even with the trailer... which is okay, because she needs to understand she has to still stand there and be calm, even with a little, or a lot, of controlled chaos going on around the trailer. I just kept cleaning the saddle and seemingly not paying attention to the drama, but was prepared to cut her loose if she throttled herself or fell down and couldn't get her feet under her. Just kept singing along to George Strait.

On the walk back to the pasture at the end of the day, she was rushing, walking over me, past me, in front of me... so I stopped, asked her to calm down a little, loved on her till she relaxed... then started walking again... same thing. She was hurrying. Bad.

Soooo, instead, I opened my hand, extended my arm to the right, snapped my fingers behind her drive line on the shoulder, and encouraged her to walk. By all means, walk. Walk fast as you like... but we are not leaving this area until you walk politely. I didn't move my feet out of the 2 ft box I mentally drew for myself. Didn't get frustrated or emotional.

She likes to come at you on the left hand turns around you... J ran into that last weekend, and got a little energetic with her lunge whip. She reacted with alarm and anger, as if Outback were charging her. It was just as useful for me to watch and see where it went wrong as it would have been to actually try and work with Outback myself. J lost every. single. 'round' with Outback because Outback had her number and quickly. Outback wasn't deliberately trying to hurt her. She's honestly ignorant and wants to crowd close for the security and comfort a 'boss mare' can offer her. She saw J as he boss and was coming right for her to feel safe in her bubble.

So. Having watched Outback get more and more emotionally closed off and more and more confused, and thus seeming hard headed with J, I took a different approach yesterday.

She came at me, and I had no stick. I didn't have a tight pistol grip on the lead rope. I had the open hand, the rope laying loosely between my thumb and index finger... she came at me, I'd whip out my mare face, throw up my right hand and either ssshhhttttd her or snapped my fingers at her to get her to move out to a safe distance. Rinse repeat until she quit running at me on the left turns.

I'd end the 'lunging' by turning her away from the pasture and asking her to flex and give me her head on both sides.

It took about three times of doing this, plus two backing ups, to get her to not rush past me while walking back to the pasture. No stick, no fraught with emotions, no stress on me. Honey, you're doing all the work. I'll just stand here and watch until you're done.

I think the issue with J, having watched this happen now with not one, but TWO of our young fillies, is she has the right concepts of what to do - it's the timing and execution that's off... but also she gets alarmed and possibly even spooked by a horse that does something even remotely challenging or perceived as a challenge. She's too big a fan of CA without following one of his first lessons: It's all about context and working with the horse you have and finding what works for that horse in that moment.

It's a bit like she's seen bits and pieces of his ad videos and just went with that blurb, that 10 minutes of a lesson, rather than gone to his clinics and invested in the whole series. Now, I will say what she knows works FANTASTIC with a horse that already KNOWS how to lunge or load or whatever and simply wants to be a butt about it. She's great with a horse that's already educated. The honestly ignorant young uns? Not so much. That said, it's been very instructive for me to sit and watch from a distance to see where the mistakes were made, to analyze what shuts Oops or Outback down and emotionally compromises them. No lasting damage was done to either filly, so I chalk it up as a learning experience for ME, if not them.

Anyway, super pleased with Outback yesterday, even the acting up walking back to the pasture (I expected it and having watched last weekend, I knew she's come in too close on the left hand/counter clockwise turns, so I could react accordingly without getting emotional). I learned a lot about what makes her tick and what shuts her down, and I consider yesterday a good good day.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

BIG StUFF TODAY KIDS. It... took a long lead rope, me pulling with firm, steady pressure, and a second rope on her butt... but she figured it out! Grace, the friend who's saddle I cleaned in exchange for helping working with her, came out today. She needed to be allowed to back out a couple of times on her own, but finally figured it out. Once in, she was nice and calm, had her lunch. Big praise was given!

Also, I have a video from this morning, before Grace was out. Funny stuff. I'll post it once it uploads.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

The struggle is real!


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## AtokaGhosthorse

I did not take pictures, but Outback got her first mani-pedi Saturday. The wind was howling out of the north, it was raining and cold and sucky. So we hunkered down on the south side of the shop, under the lean-to where I work on saddles and outside my tack room door. Had a herd of chickens, a pack of dogs, three cats, myself, the farrier, and his 14 year old apprentice all crammed in a tight area. 

She did great for a first time. Her brain didn't like the back feet worked on, but the farrier got her in a half-nelson a time or two and she was fine after that.

She IS a little pigeon toed when she grows out - farrier wasn't concerned, he pointed out the black stripes on her white hooves - it's mostly an optical illusion making her look far more toed-in than she is. With a proper trim, she's fine.

I had the apprentice turn her out in the Old Man's pasture... and it was so so weird. She tears off at a hard gallop! Oops is on the other side of the fence, racing her. She stops, faces off with Oops... still on separate sides of the fence, and rears up. And holds it. Stands straight up... front hooves slowly pawing the air while Oops just... looks at her. The three of us hoomans have NO IDEA what that was all about, but we joked she wanted to show off her trim. LOL

Spoke with Grace Saturday night - soon as the weather breaks again she's coming over. Going to have to work on the loading some more. She still doesn't want to load without a butt rope. So we're going to go back to it, see what we can get done.

Until then, I've been leading her down the road, jogging with her trotting along beside me... stopping and she stops... slow up and she slows up. She does okay leaving... but when we turn back it's like she realizes we're a half mile from home. THEN she gets emotionally compromised. Going to have to work with her on that. She's with me the whole time, not just going away from home.

She doesn't blink an eye with cars going by on the dirt road - I figure seeing us on four wheelers, the ranger, and being pastured near a US highway where she sees cars and trucks daily has desensitized her on that. 

She does enjoy hand grazing with me.

She just. will. not. load. Last time I tried, the gate was open between the two pastures. EVERY HORSE WE OWNED gathered up just yards away to watch. Whiskey the Mustang even walked up like she was going to load just to show Outback how it's done - it was weird.

Ready for the rain to stop and the ground to dry up a little. There's a lot I can be doing with her, but our property is a mudhole.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Thought I'd run in for an update: Outback is still forgetting she has legs and can step up in a trailer. I've not worked real hard on that since my last post. I've focused on ground work, walking away from home just me and her, doing some hand grazing on the side of the country road to see how she reacts to cars going by (She doesn't). Spent some time grooming her the other day and the black cattle flies are just a nightmare here right now. So I tried her out on fly spray to see how she reacts - she doesn't. She seemed relieved and dozed off, actually.


Then I decided to try the big one - Trigger's saddle, and to cinch it down, front and back. She was a little antsy - my barrel saddle is heavier than the toddler saddle I'd previously just sat on her back and didn't cinch up. She handled it like a champ though. The breast collar strap that runs between the front legs was pesky - she would dramatically stomp her foot like it was a fly pestering her. She got used to it pretty quick, honestly. Tried a little lunging at a trot, both directions - no concerns about the saddle on her back or the stirrups swinging around.


She got her first trim the day after this picture. She had fewer antsy moments than Oops did her first time. She was a better than either I or my farrier expected she'd be. Very little drama, and in fact the adult horses were more antsy and fresh than she was. Trigger was absolutely naughty - he got sedated that day.


Picture is of her, in Gina's roping pad, and my/Trigger's barrel saddle. The pad is too long, but Trigger's barrel pad had been washed that morning and was still drying out.


Second picture... I pulled up a lawn chair into the shade of the trailer and had sat down with a bottle of water, hot and tired. She was dozing off with her head almost in my lap, her front hooves just almost touching the side of my boot, she was so close. She's good company and I hope she's this chill for the rest of her life. I'd have never believed it, going off the way she acted as a yearling - wild and shy, introverted and untrusting, even though we'd never given her a reason to feel that way.


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