# i want to follow my dreams. should i breed her?



## kaydeebug (Aug 10, 2010)

so let me tell you about my mare. she is a thoroughbred with a pedigree of a champ. she is 10 and is a chesnut. registered under jockey club. she is fast and a good horse. ii havent raced her but have done some flat track on her in my club. i do barrels and poles and different events on her. i run a 18 sec barrel run and a 22 sec pole run. so shes not terrible.

her pedigree. 
sire: simi dancer, grandsire: northern dancer, great grandsire: native dancer.
dam: lindas queen, grandsire: belindas boy, and further back: native dancer.

she has really good bloodlines. northern dancer and native dancer have won kentucky derby. native dancer has won 21 out of 22 races.northern dancer won 14 out of 18 races. and never finished wrst then third.
good horses.

MY DREAM: ever since i was little ive wanted to raise race horses. i finally got a thoroughbred with decent bloodlines. and ive been excited. i just hope i can get the money and fullfill my dreams. i got to be able to afford, trainer, jockey, and dues.

few pics of my mare


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Don't breed till you have money saved up to cover all expenses for the first couple of years and a clear financial plan afterwards. The racing business is HARD. 
Your mares' lines are common. It's hard to get a TB without extensive Dancer lines.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kaydeebug (Aug 10, 2010)

o ya here is her pedigree. just go to this website scroll down.
Free 5-Cross Thoroughbred Pedigrees from equineline.com - Thoroughbred Pedigree now with Free Interactive Nicking Dancer&dam_name=Linda's Queen B&foaling_year=2001&nicking_stats_indicator=Y


highlight it all


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## kaydeebug (Aug 10, 2010)

JustDressageIt said:


> Don't breed till you have money saved up to cover all expenses for the first couple of years and a clear financial plan afterwards. The racing business is HARD.
> Your mares' lines are common. It's hard to get a TB without extensive Dancer lines.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
yes but i am an 18 girl this is my dream. i dont have any money and wont til im done with college. my horse will be dead by then. so im not sure where to start


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

I agree with JustDressageIt. Its not worth the risk. Although your mare does have one or two good horses in it, they really aren't that fantastic. And even if they were, that doesn't mean your mare is good for breeding. For one, how is her conformation? Those pictures are really small.

Yes, she's got a fair barrel time. However, its not amazingly fast, and just because she can fly around some barrels doesn't mean she could run a mile in a minute and a half. Doesnt mean she'll be able to pass anything down to her child.

Thats a lot going against you. Not to mention that even to get a claimer out of her, you're going to need a good, well built, fast, PROVEN stud to make up for what she hasn't done on the track. That means at least $900 in stud fee, even for a so-so stud. Then you have pregnancy care. Thats atleast $500 of vet bills and such. After the foals birth- providing that it IS healthy, it will need its shots, a checkup every now and then, shodding, and expensive feed. 

Then ofcourse, think about the fact that the foal can't even begin training until it is a two year old. Thats two years of just sitting around and eating all day. THEN you'd have to pay for training, and IF he runs well on the track and IF he will break from the starting gates and pass his tests, you'll need an exercise rider, a jockey, a stall at the racetrack, a trailer, the ability to go fom track to track, and most likely a groom. Not to mention even higher calorie food, extensive conditioning, etc. I have no clue what that would cost you, but I'm guessing AT LEAST $5000 by the end of things. With an amateur jockey and a non famous trainer.

This is assuming that the horse doesnt injure itself or have any setbacks in its first two years of life. Even after starting racing, theres always a chance of injury. a LARGE chance. You have to be prepared.

Its really not worth risking when you only have one mare. Unproven on the track.

I'm not telling you not to try to pursue your dreams to establish yourself in the racing business, just to be a bit more...realistic. =] go one step at a time. Think about becoming and exercise rider or something first- or if you're really confident- a jockey, Make sure that you can withstand the pressure, the hard work, the drugs, the rough people, and the all together high strung erra of the track. If you like it after a year or so, try purchasing a two or three year old at an auction so that you don't have to worry about breeding expenses, upkeep as a foal, etc. Look for one who has already raced a few times, so you have an idea of how it performs. Race that horse, and if you do well, think about adding another. If you're the type for the job, within a decade or so you could have a nice operation. However, its not realistic to breed your own and start from scratch.

I mean, its your horse. I cant tell you what to do...Just think about what I said. And good luck.

I work with a drop-dead gorgeous granddaughter of Secretariat, who also has- ofcourse, Bold Ruler, Native Dancer, Unbridled's Song, and a few other less well known but very strong performing horses- yet she couldn't run worth a dime. We now use her as an advanced lesson horse in dressage, and she excells. Racing though...it just wasn't something she could do, dispite her heritage.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

kaydeebug said:


> yes but i am an 18 girl this is my dream. i dont have any money and wont til im done with college. my horse will be dead by then. so im not sure where to start


If you started college now and had a good idea of your major, and just went for a Bachelor's, you're saying your horse would be dead around age 15? :?


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

I was thinking that too...


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

kaydeebug said:


> yes but i am an 18 girl this is my dream. i dont have any money and wont til im done with college. my horse will be dead by then. so im not sure where to start


And to you this is a good enough reason to make another horse?

:shock:


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## kaydeebug (Aug 10, 2010)

whoa guys calm down really. no matter how hurtful people may be this is what i want. and no college is not 5 years its moreto become something real in this world now and days. i want to be a vet for horses too and what i want is 14 years of college i already know what i have to do. racing is my number one thing. i just want to be a vet if the horses at the track get hurt i can be there. i just need the support and courage to get thro this. i race! and yes i know what its like so im not dumb founded on this. i race my mare. just not in the big stuff cause shes getting older. i know what that tracks like so does she. sadly i hate the fact she knows what the track is cause she is always wanting to run on it. ive been looking at a stud.... dunno if i should post it i dont want people talkin down on what im trying to decide


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

So become a vet at a track and make acquaintances with some already established folks and work your way into the racing world, instead of throwing yourself headfirst into something you cannot afford and have no actual experience in. That would be the smarter thing to do. You would learn quite a bit working there.


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## kaydeebug (Aug 10, 2010)

Poseidon said:


> So become a vet at a track and make acquaintances with some already established folks and work your way into the racing world, instead of throwing yourself headfirst into something you cannot afford and have no actual experience in. That would be the smarter thing to do. You would learn quite a bit working there.


 
yes i know and the thing is i just want to get things worked out before things get complicated. im trying to plan ahead and look around for some studs and find some good people. this isnt a hop up and get right at it. i got a lot of work to do.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I am totally confused (and maybe that is because you are acting very troll like). If you are going to be ever so busy with college for so very long what is the point of breeding your horse now anyway? Are you simply going to not go to college for the next three years until your homebred grows up to be raced?


Giving "because I want to" for a reason is about as mature as... well... let's just say it is not very mature.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

The top stud choices will be changing if you are planning way far in advance... You do realize what _good_ racing TB stud fees are don't you?


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Well, everyone has a dream. How much experience do you have with the racing industry in general? E.g. riding, training or even just strapping?

I would suggest several years working in that capacity will be of immense benefit and something you need to do before you really pursue this goal. 

I don't wish to comment on the breed vs. don't breed situtation other than to tell you this:

Breeding a good horse is a crapshoot. Raising a successful racehorse is a MASSIVE crapshoot. So breeding AND raising a successful racehorse will be very trying for you. Good that you are sticking with the college route for the time being though and best of luck with your future studies. This dream may need some more time to come to fruition IMO.


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## kaydeebug (Aug 10, 2010)

Alwaysbehind said:


> I am totally confused (and maybe that is because you are acting very troll like). If you are going to be ever so busy with college for so very long what is the point of breeding your horse now anyway? Are you simply going to not go to college for the next three years until your homebred grows up to be raced?
> 
> 
> Giving "because I want to" for a reason is about as mature as... well... let's just say it is not very mature.


 
where im going to college is far from home. im taking my mare with me. i will do all my practices on her. if i have a colt. the training will be done there with me. this is where i will be learning the race stuff and vet. make more sense?


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## kaydeebug (Aug 10, 2010)

sarahver said:


> Well, everyone has a dream. How much experience do you have with the racing industry in general? E.g. riding, training or even just strapping?
> 
> I would suggest several years working in that capacity will be of immense benefit and something you need to do before you really pursue this goal.
> 
> ...


 

i race myself on my mare. just not in those big huge races cause she is to old. i have alot of experience especially from family friends an i live one mile from the race track in utah. i know what im doing i just got to sit down and get a plan book. i might just take her to college with me ill be doing all my practices on her. but if she has a colt his training will be done in college


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

kaydeebug said:


> i race myself on my mare. just not in those big huge races cause she is to old. i have alot of experience especially from family friends an i live one mile from the race track in utah. i know what im doing i just got to sit down and get a plan book. i might just take her to college with me ill be doing all my practices on her. but if she has a colt his training will be done in college


OK, I thought you were wanting to get into the mainstream racing industry but from your racing pic it looks like more of a country meet? Not bashing, it's just that you are clearly not in a racing pad or riding in a way that will get the best possible speed out of her.

My question regarding your experience really was related to the mainstream racing industry.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

kaydeebug said:


> where im going to college is far from home. im taking my mare with me. i will do all my practices on her. if i have a colt. the training will be done there with me. this is where i will be learning the race stuff and vet. make more sense?


So you can afford board on two horses where you go to college?

And do you think you will have time with your studies to do all that? I have yet to meet anyone who is studying to be a vet (even their first years of college) who has a spare minute to breath.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

I'm worried about how much money you are going to have to pay... who is paying for the schooling? and ALL of the stud, mare, foal care?


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## TrueColours (Apr 25, 2009)

Here's a link to her pedigree on Pedigree Query:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/queen+dancer4

Her dosage profile is 22, her DI is 4.50 and her CD is 1.00. That means that she has 4 1/2 times more speed in her pedigree than she does distance - thats why she is probably doing well at barrels for you 

The DP of 22 is *average* especially when you compare it to the DP of 56 of Fusaichi Pegasus. 

The fact she is unraced is a HUGE strike against her as well.

Stud fees can be all over the map, but in order to match her up perfectly with a stallion that will ehance and compliment her, you need to do a "nick" with her and see what bloodlines she will nick best with 

When I bred my race mare for a "commerclal" foal the biggest stud fee I could afford was $5000.00 and I bred her to Alumni Hall. And believe me - a $5000.00 stud fee is WAY cheap in the race world! I was literally at the bottom of the barrel but thats all that I could afford to spend. We figured that this foal would get between $20,000 and $40,00 at this year's Yearling Sales in September 2011, but last fall, I sat down with pen and paper and mapped out what I had spent on this foal so far, the fact I kept them at home so my costs were minimal, agent fees, prep fees, auction house fees, commissions, etc, etc and at the end of the day, to get him to September 2011, I was going to have $20,000 - $25,000 into him and HOPE that I could come out alive with my hide intact in the end. Everyone else would get their money and make money off me and my colt - I was the one who appeared to be coming out on the losing end of the stick, even if he did sell for $25,000 or so. So - I cut my losses then and there and sold him

So - go in with your eyes WIDE OPEN. Racing is a very expensive and very unforgiving game ... and there are more people spit out by the roadside with no money left, than you can count ...

Hope this helps!


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Following on from what TC mentioned, the grey horse in my avatar was sired by one of Australia's top race horse sires in the early nineties (Rancho Ruler) and out of an English bred mare (Heavenly Steps). Stud fee of $200,000 thank you very much.

11 starts for seven lasts, no one was better at bringing the rear of the field home than her. The racing industry is hard, no matter how hard you try to improve your odds with good breeding.


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## kaydeebug (Aug 10, 2010)

sarahver said:


> OK, I thought you were wanting to get into the mainstream racing industry but from your racing pic it looks like more of a country meet? Not bashing, it's just that you are clearly not in a racing pad or riding in a way that will get the best possible speed out of her.
> 
> My question regarding your experience really was related to the mainstream racing industry.


 

bahahaha ya my pic sucks. im so tall i cant bend over very well and i sometimes forget to. but in my future life id like to get into the real stuff. i wanna go to kentucky derby next year


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## kaydeebug (Aug 10, 2010)

TrueColours said:


> Here's a link to her pedigree on Pedigree Query:
> 
> http://www.pedigreequery.com/queen+dancer4
> 
> ...


dude thank you so much. you have been very helpful just from this one post. how did you find that. thats very cool. i think i found me a new best friend. thanks for helping me


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

kaydeebug said:


> bahahaha ya my pic sucks. im so tall i cant bend over very well and i sometimes forget to. but in my future life id like to get into the real stuff. i wanna go to kentucky derby next year


Ha ha, again not bashing but I presume you mean as a spectator :lol:


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## kaydeebug (Aug 10, 2010)

i put the ad up about the stud im looking at


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Where?


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## kaydeebug (Aug 10, 2010)

the stud thats caught my eye

Classifieds for Utah, Idaho, and Wyoming - ksl.com=


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

May I ask why he has caught your eye? His race record is less than stellar and the fact that they are advertising him as a stud for 'all aspects of the equine industry' is less than encouraging.

$1.00 stud fee is interesting also!!


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Has he won anything?


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## kaydeebug (Aug 10, 2010)

yes. look at his pedigree, and read the whole had as in his pedigree winnings close to him. and the only reason stud fee says 1.00 is so that they can get people to call thats how utah always works


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

^^After many years spent deciphering horse advertisements the words 'He is a race winner' tell me enough.

That tells me that he probably won a race once and that the fact that the name of the race is not mentioned tells me that it was very very small time. Just an educated guess.

Intersting about the stud fee, what is it really then?


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Kaydee, did you read the part where TC said she lost money selling her YEARLING for $25000? How big is your stud fee budget? Where will you race?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kaydeebug (Aug 10, 2010)

idk bout the stud fee. i havent called cause im just looking around seeing whats out there, just learning for now. getting to know pedigrees, learning all the races out here, seeing whats good and bad. just preparing for the future for now


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

If you're _truly_ serious about actual TB racing, you're going to need to start by learning all you can from those in the industry. Which means NOT breeding your mare to some random TB stallion just because his stud fee is nonexistent, and thinking you can race train the foal while you're in college.

You're going to have to get down and dirty at the race tracks by taking any job you can get, and learn as much as you can from the people who do the actual training, riding, and racing.

The racing industry is a multi billion dollar business, and you're not going to buck the system and become some famous, rich, racing mogul overnight with an iffy mare and stallion combo, and one unknown foal. Life isn't like the movies. If you're not willing to do the work, then the dream will remain just that; a dream.

I'm not knocking you or your desires, but someone needs to give you a reality check. Unless you STOP thinking this is a Disney movie where you're the plucky heroine with an underdog horse who will surprise everyone and win the big race, you're never going to get anywhere. 

Start at the bottom, learn all you can from those with the experience, and maybe, just maybe, 15 or 20 years down the line you'll have the ability, finances, and expertise to have a real shot at breeding an actual race horse.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

I have been breeding for many years and at a high level in my discipline. I would not even think of breeding with out more then just what you are proposing. I would also not look at a stallion with a $1 stud fee. Now may be Privet treaty but not $1 that is not how it works anywhere.

Also un like most other disciplines TB racing is very very expensive b/c there is no place for the breeders/owners with in the sport out side is forking out big bucks. If your horse does not make a race horse at a good level then what? There is no non pro or youth racing. Nothing. There are no races for older horses. Once they start to slow if they ever had any speed to begin with then what? Only the best go on to breed. So what, now you have to find a home for the horse with a person who wants to try and retrain the horse. That horse then needs to be able to compete against horses who are bred to do that discipline. Yes some make nice HUS or Jumpers or even speed event horses. What happens to the rest? Have you given this any thought?

You would be better off looking at a barrel racing stallion and getting a nice barrel prospect then a TB racing prospect. 

Stop step back and think about what you are doing. Every person has some type of dream. Think about what the ones who succeed did to get there. A dream is great however it is not enough.


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## kaydeebug (Aug 10, 2010)

i know this is random but i love everyone on this forum you guys are so nice and helpful. and responsive i have another forum and talking bout the same thign. all they have done is cut me down tell me how horrible i am and that my horse and her pedigree is good for nothing. and that i dont even know how to take care of horse and do anythign
so thank you guys


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## DieselPony (Jul 26, 2010)

To give you some hope...

I work at breeding barn where a lot of the race breeders board their mares to foal. I could never dream to afford one of the foals out there. I'd also like to mention that the average cost of just the sperm for a one time AI breeding (so not including the board of the mare, the testing nearly every day to see when the mare ovulates, the actual insemination, and the checks to make sure she caught) is $1200. I don't know the odds of the mare catching the first time, but I'm assuming its not that great?

So breeding your own horse is very expensive, but its worth it on these mares has they have all raced and done well, or have amazing running bloodlines and are proven brood mares. Being in college for 14 years, your not going to be able to afford anything. (I'm only on my third year and because of keeping my horse and not being able to work full time to take of her/go to school, I'm $20,000 in debt already)

But here is the hopeful part. Because I'm in this boarding barn working, one of the main breeders around here offered me one of his mares dirt cheap. Had been on the track, had bloodlines to run up the wazooze and would have made a great addition to his broodmare herd, but she was still young with potential to something else and he was cutting back on his herd. 

So basically, get a job at the track. Even just being the one taking bets. I have friend who does that and she is really starting to figure out the who's-who on the track. You'll have money for school and your future breeding plans, plus you'll have connections like crazy. I'm finding that in the horse world, connections mean everything.


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## kaydeebug (Aug 10, 2010)

like i said i wanted to be a vet ive done vet work already._ i honetly almost_ cried when i heard this but thoroughbreds are the only breed you cannot artifically inseminate because theyre genes are stalled which is in called blocked organism. its because they are warmblooded. and are candian bred also come from saddlebred and arabians. SAD DAY


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

kaydeebug said:


> like i said i wanted to be a vet ive done vet work already._ i honetly almost_ cried when i heard this but thoroughbreds are the only breed you cannot artifically inseminate because theyre genes are stalled which is in called blocked organism. its because they are warmblooded. and are candian bred also come from saddlebred and arabians. SAD DAY


WRONG. Who ever gave you that info is incorrect.

Jockey club does not allow horses to be AI'd for JC papers. Live cover only. TC's stud is a TB and she collects him and mare owners AI...


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## kaydeebug (Aug 10, 2010)

hmmmm the college of veternarian school told me that...


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Kaydee, it has nothing to do with the mechanics of AI. The Jockey Club only allows live cover, not AI. Whoever fed you that info about TBs being unable to AI was feeding you a whole load of horse manure. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

What vet school told you that Kaydee?


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

kaydeebug said:


> like i said i wanted to be a vet ive done vet work already._ i honetly almost_ cried when i heard this but thoroughbreds are the only breed you cannot artifically inseminate because theyre genes are stalled which is in called blocked organism. its because they are warmblooded. and are candian bred also come from saddlebred and arabians. SAD DAY


Um, what? :?

ANY horse can be AI'd. There's nothing genetically different about TBs that make them unable to be AI'd.

The _only _reason you can't AI TBs is because in order for the horse to be registered with the Jockey Club, it HAS to be live cover. That's a Jockey Club rule, and has nothing to do with 'stalled genes'.

A Saddlebred/Arabian cross is a National Show Horse, not a TB. TBs are their own breed, and it doesn't matter whether they're Canadian TBs, American TBs, or English TBs. They're also considered a_ hotblood_, not a warmblood.

Really, where in Heaven's name did you _hear_ such tripe?


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Any horse regardless of breed can physically be bred AI. That has nothing to do with it. It comes down to what the registry allows. JC does not allow AI only live cover which has been stated. You can breed a TB mare to a AQHA stallion for an AQHA Appendix with no problems. The resulting foal will be AQHA though and not TB/JC registered.


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## DieselPony (Jul 26, 2010)

I guess I should have added it's QH and Standerbreds at this barn. But I was just trying to give a point of the costs with breeding. Its why I see a lot of co-owners as well.

But I've never heard any reason why something CANT be AI. And I also find it strange that JC doesn't allow AI.


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## kaydeebug (Aug 10, 2010)

itt technical instiute. dude im like balling.i just wanted to raise race horses and be there and see them run and love what i do and what they do. i dont know what to do anymore. its like only thing ive wanted to do in life and be happy with. i guess i cant


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

kaydeebug said:


> like i said i wanted to be a vet ive done vet work already._ i honetly almost_ cried when i heard this but thoroughbreds are the only breed you cannot artifically inseminate because theyre genes are stalled which is in called blocked organism. its because they are warmblooded. and are candian bred also come from saddlebred and arabians. SAD DAY


The Biochemist in me is crying at this statement. Wrong on so many levels. AI is illegal in the racing industry _world wide_ to protect the breeding industry in each country. Nothing to do with genes.


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## kaydeebug (Aug 10, 2010)

idk i just give up kk. this is the only forum that has been helpful but the other one has just cut me down i dont even wanna be a vet or do racign anymore people can be so rude :"(


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Kaydee, it's called growing up and being realistic. Racing is a very very tough industry to get into and stay afloat. You can't just pick up any TB and hope to win a big race. It's a rich man's sport. Good prospects for the big races are hundreds of thousands to millions just to buy, then tens to hundreds of thousands more into training and racing. 
Could you race at some small time tracks? If you can ... But even then be prepared to have your world turned upside-down. It isn't Disney. 
Sorry, but I won't feed you lies to make you feel better.
Why drop your dream of being a vet? Kaydee, this is the Internet hon, everyone has an opinion and some aren't afraid to get nasty. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

kaydeebug said:


> itt technical instiute.


That's not a vet school, it's a school for people interested in information technology degrees. :?

Seriously kay, how old are you REALLY? You're not even close to being 18 y/o, are you? 12 or 13 is my guess.

Dreams are good, but if you want to make them a reality, a lot of long hours and hard work are necessary, and you have to be prepared to fail at least the first few times.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

kaydeebug said:


> itt technical instiute.


ITT is not a vet school.


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## kaydeebug (Aug 10, 2010)

Alwaysbehind said:


> ITT is not a vet school.


in utah we have it for vets, auto, woodworking, nurses.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

If you want to be a vet, look at a _real_ vet school. If the info that you stated is what they are teaching to the "vets" they are teaching I would be very, very afraid.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

No, I am guessing they have it for vet *techs*. Not vets.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

First your dream of being a vet is a great one to have. It is one that can be achieved with hard work and dedication. Start there. Work at it learn. I did not start out with the breeding stock I have now. It takes time and work. It takes learning and pay a few dues. This is part of what it takes to get what you want. Every person has a dream of something, I know I have had them. Actually many. I found out what was needed to achieve them then made a plan to get there then worked the plan. You might get your dream of owning a TB race horse. Probably not out of your mare and probably not in the near future but there are ways. There are syndicates that you can buy into. That is one of the best ways to get involved. You have many many years ahead of you to make your dreams happen.


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## kaydeebug (Aug 10, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> That's not a vet school, it's a school for people interested in information technology degrees. :?
> 
> Seriously kay, how old are you REALLY? You're not even close to being 18 y/o, are you? 12 or 13 is my guess.
> 
> Dreams are good, but if you want to make them a reality, a lot of long hours and hard work are necessary, and you have to be prepared to fail at least the first few times.


ya im 18 thanks and ya i get hurt very easy by what people say so it may sound like im younger. i know i intend for years of waiting i dont plan on getting into this right away. no way! i just want to get prepared, see whats out there, go to some races,


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

According to the ITT technical institute web site they do not offer even vet tech at the only school they have in Utah.

ITT Tech | Campus Info


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Maybe a Veterinary Assistant, but I doubt for a full-fledged DVM. 

Kaydee, if SR is right and you're younger than the 18 years you claim to be, that could be a big issue; I'm going to go a lot softer on a kid who's expressing their dreams and wishes than, say, Speed Racer. If SR said "I want to breed my TB mare to race her!" I'd probably be a little more harsh with reality (i.e. "do you know what's involved?!") than if a child posted that they want to own and race a TB - hell, I wanted to be just like Ashleigh from the Thoroughbred series when I was younger, too! I'd try to let them down a little more easily.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

According to the ITT website they don't even have a vet tech program...


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## kaydeebug (Aug 10, 2010)

whatever its done i dont want anything to do with it then. if people tell me i cant do it then obviously i cant. so its fine im moving on with life


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

If you have a defeatist attitude you will never get anywhere.

You wanted opinions on breeding for a race horse. You got them and you didn't like them.


Not going to comment anymore on the vet thing...


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

A can't-do attitude won't get you anywhere in life. If it's that easy for people to discourage you over the internet, you might want to take a break from it.
If everyone gave up because people said "oh, you can't do that!" then we'd still be picking bugs off one another and flinging poo.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

So, now I want to really know where you got your TB breeding comment from since we know there is no vet program at ITT.

Please enlighten us.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

kaydeebug said:


> whatever its done i dont want anything to do with it then. if people tell me i cant do it then obviously i cant. so its fine im moving on with life


If YOU think you can't do it, then you can't.

You asked us what we thought, and we told you. I don't believe in patting people on the head and telling them it's all going to be fluffy bunnies and sunshine, because it's not.

If you're _seriously_ interested in making it in the TB racing industry, you're going to have to make sacrifices and work long and hard to even scratch out a living for quite awhile. That's the reality of the situation.

If you thought you could breed your 10 y/o nonraced mare to some random TB stallion and get the race winner of the century without having to do anything else, then you're sadly mistaken. That's only how it works in _movies_, not real life.

If you're willing to give up on your dream because it's going to be_ too hard_, then you obviously don't have what it takes. Being a vet isn't easy, either. That takes a lot of hard work and dedication as well.

You're only 18. At 18 I had a lot of dreams, too. Don't confuse dreams for reality though, unless you're willing to work hard to make them happen. Just like the rest of us, unless you have unlimited funds, you're going to have to _work_ for what you want.


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## kaydeebug (Aug 10, 2010)

bahhh sorry its called vet tech institute. but im sorry guys im just really stressed out. people tell me this is so hard and so bad and money consuming i thought i could do it if i tried but i guess not


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

So it is still not vet school and it does not take ...how many years did you say, 13.

ETA, nope you said it was 14 years of college.


It is hard to take your seriously when you are making up things to be dramatic.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

kaydeebug said:


> whatever its done i dont want anything to do with it then. if people tell me i cant do it then obviously i cant. so its fine im moving on with life



With this attitude you are correct you will never do it. You have to believe you can and then find out how and what it takes. You might have to tweak it a bit but in the end you will enjoy what you are doing.

Let me give you an example. When I was your age. Assuming you are actually 18. I wanted to work in the Music industry. Turned down a free ride to a different collage b/c of what I wanted to do. Went off to collage 500 miles away. Now I knew I did not have the ability to sing. NOT A SINGER. I knew that. I also knew that although I was fairly good at playing instruments I was not good enough to do that either at least not at that level. So I did some research. Harder back then b/c there was no internet. Decided I wanted to be a sound Engineer. Looked at what it was what it intailed and found out that I already had a good back ground for that. So I applied Was excepted. Got a degree. Guess what. I found out that I really did not have an ear that would take me much past live work. Yet I still wanted to be involved in the industry. Friend suggested that perhaps driving would be a good fit. Better money better hours so much better. I was very very good at it. Had no trouble getting work. Had one of the best buses out there. Road managers had me on speed dial. Worked with some of the biggest names in the music industry. I achieved my dream. It was not the dream I thought I wanted but it was in the end the one that fit me the best and I had a blast. Now b/c I stuck to it and did not listen to people telling me what I can not do I am not sitting here retired by the age of 40 with 5 degrees and enjoying life.

Just b/c this exact dream does not pan out the way YOU think it should dose not mean that in some way I can not work out.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

*shrug* Your choice. Not ours. We're giving you reality because it SEEMS that you think it's going to be easy - it's not - and you're doing the equivalent of rolling over.


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## kaydeebug (Aug 10, 2010)

ok ive cooled off a little. ill admit i dont know as much as i wish i did. ok this is not something i want to jump right into and thats what i think most people thought. this is something i wanna look forward to in my years to come. i know i may not get to some big race with it but i want to try to get somewhere in life with this. i hope to go to big races some day just to watch but itd still be decent to try for some small town races. and see what i get.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Like I stated before. There are syndicates you can get into and partnerships in race horses. Big Brown comes to mind. It is a good way to get your foot into the door and actually own a race horse with out the big bucks. You still get to go watch the horse race. Still get a lot of the benefits of own a TB race horse without the big cost and even bigger risk.


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## kaydeebug (Aug 10, 2010)

big brown was trained here in utah a mile from my house


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

Been browsing this thread for a while, but just thought I'd throw in my two cents.

Yes, it is extremely difficult to make a name for yourself in the racing industry. It would be a massive financial burden for you, among many other things that other members have already stated.

However, have you thought about what would be the next best thing? Besides breeding and training your own horse, I mean. You can be involved in the industry without actually owning a horse. Ever thought about working at a breeding farm? You'd get to be around the horses, watch foals being born and raised, watch them train, etc. Who knows? You could work in the same barn as some super famous horses. How cool would that be?

Edit: You want to be a DVM, right? You could specialize in racehorses and practice in racing barns. See? You'd still be in the racing picture and in the atmosphere you want to be in.


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## kaydeebug (Aug 10, 2010)

ya but my dream has always been to raise a race horse and see something happen with it


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

kaydeebug said:


> ya but my dream has always been to raise a race horse and see something happen with it


I'm kind of confused- what caliber of racing did you have in mind? Are we talking small races or Saratoga?


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

There are already enough TBs in the world. How about rescuing the ones that are going to be slaughtered instead of making more?


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

kaydeebug said:


> ya but my dream has always been to raise a race horse and see something happen with it



And I always wanted to see my name on the back of a best selling album. Sometimes you must re evaluate what you want and see what you can do and what is feasible. Could I have made that dream come true? Oh yes I am sure I could have. Thing is that is not what would have worked out for the best. In the end I am much happier with what I did do and accomplish. Sometimes dreams need to change. Most of the time they just evolve. There is nothing wrong with that.


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

^^^ Good point, nrha. Heck, I'm 18 and I've changed my mind a hundred times. My goals have evolved as I've matured, because I realized some of my dreams just weren't realistic (like wanting to be a jockey... I grew up to be five-foot-nine). :wink:

I'm not saying you have to settle for less. You just have to find something that's feasible for you and makes you happy.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

I agree with jessabel and NRHA.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Hmmmm do TB mares suddenly become able to be AI'd when the stallion is not a TB? There are a hell of a lot of TB broodmares around being covered by international WB stallions via frozen semen (AI obviously)  . I think your idea that this 'vet college' may actually stand for Vocational Education Training. This is what it represents in Australia at least. 
14 years of college to be a vet? Another hmmmmmm from me, sorry mate, REALLY? Unless you're doing it part time and deferring occasionally... Over here the course is 6 years full time, can go to 8 if you want to specialise. 

Maybe do some research, get down to the track, work as a strapped for a trainer and get a feel for what it's really like down there. Check out the money involved. My farrier trims for a TB stud down my way, and their AVERAGE yearlings go for around the $100 000 mark. 

I think someone also said above, there are so many TB's in the world... why breed more? 
So very true, they would have to be the most over bred breed, along with standardbreds. They are disposal, they are bred, trialed and if they're no good, they're discarded and the next one comes along. Hundreds of thousands are bred every year... and how many win big races? Probably about 1 in 100 000. Why breed ANOTHER average tb, that trials, races a couple of times, does badly, ends up in the country races.. does badly... and if it's lucky it finds a home to be retrained for riding, otherwise winds up at the doggers. 

IMO, leave the breeding of TB race horses to the experts.


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## Shiavo (Mar 23, 2011)

Alwaysbehind said:


> So it is still not vet school and it does not take ...how many years did you say, 13.
> 
> ETA, nope you said it was 14 years of college.


A bit off topic but : Are things different in U.S ? I'm currently doing BioMedicine as my post-graduate to enter Veterinary school and with BOTH degrees here in Aus it'll take about 7 years all up...is it longer in U.S or something?


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## Gent N Diva (Aug 12, 2010)

Just about every horse in the kill pens was someone's dream once. If you breed a foal you should be prepared and capable of paying for it's keep for it's entire life, especially if something goes wrong and it's born with a major issue. Breeding, even for an "inexpensive" foal is very expensive, no mention of breeding for a horse who could actually be competitive in racing. 

There are SO MANY unnecessary breedings going on all the time just because people have a mare or a stallion, and there is already an overabundance of horses as it is. Dreams are great, but as was mentioned, the world isn't Disney and just as often it smacks you in the face. 

Go to college, get your vet degree, THEN look into breeding, racing horses, and in the meantime work in the indusry, get some experience, have some fun without the stress of a foal during school.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Shiavo said:


> A bit off topic but : Are things different in U.S ? I'm currently doing BioMedicine as my post-graduate to enter Veterinary school and with BOTH degrees here in Aus it'll take about 7 years all up...is it longer in U.S or something?


Yep, degree structures are entirely different in the US. Your undergraduate degree (from a big university) is four years here in the US but the first two are spent completing core subjects with little chance to specialise. You must do subjects like english, history, math, biology and so on and you do not get the chance to specialise somewhat until the third or fourth year. Even then it is more of an emphasis rather than a specialty.

If you wish to truly specialise in something in the US you usually have to go back and earn a second degree.

In Australia you begin specialising in your chosen field the day you pick the course and university you will attend. So I completed my undergraduate degree in biochemistry (in Australia) so I did four years of just that - Biochemistry. Starting with the basics and working up to the more involved. General subjects like english, math, history etc are taught in secondary school and do not extend to tertiary unless you wish to specifically study them.

As Kayty mentioned you can become a vet in six years in Oz, that's a full time and intensive program, the first two years of which are mainly studying biology, chemistry and physics as they pertain to vet science. Remaining four years are true vet school. Here in the US it would take roughly 8 - 10 depending on the school.

But certainly not 13 or 14. And not at ITT tech.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Oops, Shiavo I see you are an Aussie so you know what I am talking about.

P.S. I am a Monash grad :wink: They have a great Biomed program...


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## Shiavo (Mar 23, 2011)

sarahver said:


> Oops, Shiavo I see you are an Aussie so you know what I am talking about.
> 
> P.S. I am a Monash grad :wink: They have a great Biomed program...


No worries!  And comparing the two was a great way to illustrate the difference. Not sure I'd be too happy about having to study 'general' and THEN specialise - but hey, I'm sure that has benefits (ie. Being forced to do English could have avoided my lecturer not knowing how to pronouce Esophagus and instead said Eee-Soo-Phag-Us - she was removed as a lecturer shortly after her start).

And yea, have heard lots of good things about Monash's BioMed degree. Am doing mine at a local university but have been comparing our course work to monash's and deakin's and theirs seem a bit better than ours. Aaah well.

Sorry! Back on topic


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I don't understand how people are crushing your dreams. Nobody is saying DON'T raise racehorses, they're saying DON'T start with your mare. Anybody who starts in racing by breeding is asking for failure - you start by BUYING a youngster to train, one that already has proven conformation and pedigree.

And I'm sorry, but if you think it takes 14 years to become a vet, there are MUCH bigger problems with your dreams then breeding horses.


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## kaydeebug (Aug 10, 2010)

ummm excuse me. no body asked about vet school. and actually ask any vet in utah. especially mine he went to 13 and a half years of school to do his vet work. theres more to being a vet then just surgery and ultrasounds, you have to know every breed ever trait in that horse, you have to know its bones, its muscle its legments its tendons. its coffin bone, its hoofs, you gotta deal with insistions, pregnancies, teeth, feeding, medicine, surgeries of thousands of different kinds. there is several years to being a vet. mayb 8 years if your specializing in a certain area of the horse. but i know what im doing with the vet stuff. ive spent my whole life working on being a vet. i may not know alot about racing but i sure the hek i know about vet. and im excited for vet life. so im proud to stand tall on this one. 

THANKS FOR THE SUPPORT EVERYONE IN THIS FORUM


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I suggest reading at this link:

Veterinarians

In particular, this: "Admission to veterinary school is competitive. The number of accredited veterinary colleges has remained largely the same since 1983, but the number of applicants has risen significantly. Only about 1 in 3 applicants was accepted in 2007."

You might also look at this:

http://old.cvm.msu.edu/documents/admiss/Final_Admitted_Profile.pdf

If you are serious about becoming a vet, then you have a LOT of work ahead, including getting admitted to a school with a pre-vet program or good biology program. You achieve tough goals by breaking them down into steps and achieving one step at a time.

I also recommend reading this since you are in Utah:

Pre-Veterinary


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Mate, you don't need to explain to us what a vet needs to know. I'm sure even the most basic of horse owners would have an idea of that. 
No body is trying to crush your dreams of being a vet or being involved in the racing industry at some point. So if you actually are 18, it would be greatly appreciated if you could act your age by not assuming everyone is attacking you or telling you that you can't do something- I'm sure your respect on the forum would increase. It's the internet, we are from all over the world and merely expressing our own opinions and experiences. You can take it on board or leave it, but if you chose to ignore the information given you will have to deal with the results, don't expect support when you get stuck. 
A negative attitude will get you no where in life, those 'I cant' 'Its too hard' 'She said I couldnt do it' etc. is all negative talk and will not help your cause.
If you REALLY want to be a vet, you're going to have to put on your big girl panties and get a bit tougher.


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## TrueColours (Apr 25, 2009)

Here is the link to Tempt the Tiger the stallion mentioned back on Page 3

Tempt The Tiger Horse Pedigree

His DP is VERY low, his starts and earnings are VERY low, if the info on his ad is correct and he really is 17.2hh, thats the kiss of death for a race horse - they cant be raced as 2 year olds, cant do much as 3 year olds and no one wants to hang onto them until they are 4 to see if they can run. 

A cross with this stallion and your mare would probably produce a nice pleasure horse and thats it


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## haleylvsshammy (Jun 29, 2010)

I'm a wee bit confused why you appear to think that Utah is in an entirely different country than the rest of the United States? Most of the people posting here live in the US, so they know what US stuff is like. So don't go off saying that just because you're in Utah means you're in some other world where you're suddenly in 14 years of vet school.

Best of luck in becoming a vet, it sounds like a lot of fun to follow your dreams


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## munschk (Mar 11, 2008)

Ok, so I'm in my 6th year of a complete 7 year Veterinary degree (comprised of a 3-year Bachelor of Veterinary Biology and now on a 4-year Bachelor of Veterinary Science which is the main degree). 

If I decided to specialise into exclusively Equine work - it would take me 4 years (in South Africa) for reproduction, a 1-year internship followed by a 3-year residency for either Medicine or Surgery. So unless you're interested in specialising in two separate Specialities, no matter that you're in the U.S. and I'm in S.A. as I know A LOT of U.S. veterinary students, it is not going to take you 14 years of studying.

And, don't know if its different in the States, but I spend a grand total of one year on Equines as a whole, after I spent 4 years in basic Anatomy, Physiology, Biology, Physics, Histology, Pharmacology, Toxicology, Parasitology, Pathology - you name it followed by a year of Bovines and Small Animals. The year I'm currently in is my Equine year (combined with 10 other subjects) so please don't assume that members of this forum know nothing about ALL that goes into Veterinary Science. ALL you mentioned, was probably not even a months worth of work. 

And please believe me, because I mean this with all that I am, veterinary science is a tough degree. I find the time to be with my mare for 2 hours a day, more on weekends and she is part of the stud herd on my campus. With all the lectures, practicals and study time, it is difficult to find a lot of free time, so please just remember this. I'm not saying it can't be done if you're determined but just keep this in mind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

kaydeebug said:


> itt technical instiute. dude im like balling.i just wanted to raise race horses and be there and see them run and love what i do and what they do. i dont know what to do anymore. its like only thing ive wanted to do in life and be happy with. i guess i cant


THIS is what shwos me your immaturity level. You're on a public forum asking for career advice, and you're calling people "dude," forgetting what your 4th grade english teacher taught you about capitalization and spaces, and you have completely unrealistic goals that seem to be based off of Disney movies and underdog-to-winner stories.

ETA: No one is crushing your dreams. Heck, I'm planning on being a vet and I'm only 13. However, a lot of what you've posted is questionable, especially the thing you have going saying that Utah has completely different schools and customs.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

kaydeebug said:


> ya but my dream has always been to raise a race horse and see something happen with it


You post this like you are nearing the end of your life and you are missing out on your dream and if you do not fulfill your dream right this very second you will be crushed because your dream has not come to fruition.



Shiavo said:


> A bit off topic but : Are things different in U.S ? I'm currently doing BioMedicine as my post-graduate to enter Veterinary school and with BOTH degrees here in Aus it'll take about 7 years all up...is it longer in U.S or something?


It is called drama. Nothing more. The OP is making up numbers and things and spewing them as if they are facts for a dramatic affect. Obviously the OP thinks the rest of us are not as smart as her and do not see through the lies.


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