# Sitting A Bouncy Trot?? Help!



## Lia and Midnight (Sep 22, 2014)

Hey there, I have an 11 year old STB. he's absoloutly lovely, has a nice forward walk, and a really smooth canter, but a big bouncy trot that I just can't seem to sit to. I don't have much experience sitting to the trot at all and was wondering if anyone could give me some tips on how to absorb the movement. thanks


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## Pony Paradise (Sep 16, 2014)

I have had a problem with this too. Nothing is more annoying then bouncing away on your horses back! I found this video really helpful:


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## Lia and Midnight (Sep 22, 2014)

Pony Paradise said:


> I have had a problem with this too. Nothing is more annoying then bouncing away on your horses back! I found this video really helpful:
> 
> How to improve your Sitting Trot - YouTube


thanks for your reply. I've seen this video before on youtube. Unfortunately it's difficult for me to do the exercises listed, as Midnight lives at home with me, and none of my family or friends have any experience with horses so there is no one to hold the lunge line.


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## Pony Paradise (Sep 16, 2014)

One thing I keep in mind, pretend your butt is glued to the saddle. Keep it kinda flowy as you would canter. Sorry that's all I could help


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Are you sure he's trotting and not pacing? Some SB trot, others pace, a lateral movement.


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

While strong and expressive trotting movement on the part of the horse can influence how easily a rider can sit the trot, the main causes of problems arise from tension in the rider and/or tension in the horse. Of course, tension in the rider will help bring about tension in the horse, and tension in the horse often brings about tension in the rider. Despite the initial cause of tension, it is the rider’s responsibility to mitigate this tension.

Any unnecessary tension in the muscles of the rider makes him less supple and less able to follow the movements of his horse. When the rider is not following his horse’s movements, he is making it harder for his horse to move. The horse must work harder to achieve the same movement. In addition, the horse will usually respond to tension in the rider by tensing his own muscles. When muscles are tense, the flexing muscles must use more effort to overcome the tension in the opposing muscles.

One of the most common rider responses when trying to sit a rough trot is to tighten the muscles in his crotch in an effort to lessen the effect of impact. Doing so, however, raises the rider’s seat out of the saddle. This raises the rider’s center of gravity and makes him more unstable. Instead, the rider should strive to release tension in these muscles to allow his seat to sink deeply into the saddle. This lowers his center of gravity and makes his seat more stable. 

In the same way, the rider should release tension in his legs, ankles, and feet. Tense legs holding to the horse’s sides block the pull of gravity and keep the rider’s center of gravity higher. Rather than trying to hold onto the sides of his horse, the rider should allow gravity to draw his legs down, wrapping them around his horse’s body without tension. This both lowers the rider’s center of gravity and makes his body more supple. A more supple body can more easily follow the horse’s movements.

Additionally, the rider should try to release any unnecessary tension in his torso. In this way, his upper body will become more supple. It will be easier to make quick, subtle adjustments to stay in balance with the moving horse. Loose shoulder and elbow joints can allow the rider’s hands to stay in alignment with his horse’s head while his body is moving about following the motion of his horse’s body.

In response, the horse will generally release tension in his muscles. He will be able to move with less effort. The horse’s relaxed muscles and tendons will take on more of a shock absorbing role. The impact of the horse’s feet hitting the ground will become softer.

This softening of the horse’s movements may not occur immediately. To help during the transition, the rider can make the sitting trot more comfortable by lightening his seat. He does this by putting more pressure in the stirrups. It is important, however, that the rider do this with as little effort as possible. His joints should remain flexible so his legs can act as shock absorbers

I hope this information helps.


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## Lia and Midnight (Sep 22, 2014)

wow thanks for all the info, I think making my seat lighter could help, thats something I haven't tried yet. and I'll keep in mind every thing else

and yes he is trotting. Midnight is a pacer, but I can feel the difference between his pace and his trot and He rarely paces anyway.


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## mrsgrubby (Jul 6, 2014)

great post TXhorseman!

Some horses are just super difficult to sit. In those cases I alternate practicing sitting the trot with just absorbing the trot in my knees so as not to make more or the horse uncomfortable.

Good Luck!


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

Some have very rough trots that are hard to sit, especially really "big" movers and pulling horses with lots of knee action. My arabs trot is awful, but if I really, really focus, I can sit it. Its not fun, but possible.

my cousins percherons however, are impossible. Someone once said "they are like riding a jack hammer in the back of a shock less pickup truck going over speed bumps". About sums up the experience. I was on bareback, and I used every trick I knew and I was still coming off her back slightly. The next day every muscle hurt, from my head to my ankles.

I believe some horses should be posted on.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

There's a fine line between being relaxed in the saddle and sitting deep with no tension and allowing yourself to turn into a jelly (not sure if that translates into US or Aust.) but basically you don't want to be wobbling around either or you'll lose strength and power
A lot of horses feel rough at the sitting trot because they aren't really pushing/moving forward 'from behind' - you work on that and the bumpy seat problem often goes away. Something to think about.


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## WildAtHeart (Jul 17, 2013)

It's all about the hips...or at least it is for me. relax your hips and allow them to move in the saddle while trying to keep your upper body tall. Instead of thinking about keeping your hips still, think about keeping them loose.

Sometimes it helps to drop your stirrups or even ride bareback. Let your legs hand long and relaxed.

Best of luck 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

While this is probably not the case in this situation, I should also point out that the trot of a horse with a raised or rounded back is dramatically different than a horse with a hollowed back. It is also important to note a horse's back may rise by the tension in the ligaments and tendons along the horse's topline as the horse lowers and extends its head and neck. A truly rounded back is more the result of the horse tucking its pelvis as it reaches forward with its hind feet. This may also be accompanied by a raising of the neck as the horse bends at the poll bringing its nose near -- but not behind -- the vertical.


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## mslady254 (May 21, 2013)

I only watched the video once, but I hope you at least got a couple of good tips from it that don't require a 2nd person. 
1) squeeze/press/hold on with your calves. I was quite happy to hear this because even though I'd always been taught, and heard, that you 'don't squeeze below the knees', it's what I instinctively do, and it helps so much with my Sonny's jackhammer trot. Yay! Keep in mind, though , that you must at the same time be sure that your heels are NOT inward toward the horse. (toes in-heels out, right ?) 
2) slow the horse down enough and the trot becomes much easier to sit. Once you've mastered sitting at a slower speed, then gradually increase the speed.

Sorry if you've already tried those things, just wanted to make sure you caught it in the video.
I don't think you mention posting or rising trot. When you just can't sit the trot, posting is the simplest solution,,,or two point. Have you been taught those ?
Another technique I've been taught is to 'pedal' with your feet in rhythm with the horse's hip, eg. as the right hip goes down, you push your heel down, then the other heel, keep in rhythm with the horse...easier to teach in person,and DONT push down hard enough to pull yourself out of your balanced seat...just a gentle pedal-ing. 
Can you sit the trot on other horse's? I can easily sit other horse's trot, but Sonny is dippy-backed, and so goes somewhat hollow, and also f a s t,,,not quite as bad as the jackhammer-shockless pickup BlueSpark described, but pretty bad. Slowing him down and holding with my calves works for me. Also, keep your shoulders from going forward,,,don't lean them back, just keep them in line with your hips. Those thngs are what works for me.

Good luck!
TxHorseman---I hope you keep a file of your responses so you dont have to type them every time... 

Fay


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

TXhorseman said:


> While strong and expressive trotting movement on the part of the horse can influence how easily a rider can sit the trot, the main causes of problems arise from tension in the rider and/or tension in the horse. Of course, tension in the rider will help bring about tension in the horse, and tension in the horse often brings about tension in the rider. Despite the initial cause of tension, it is the rider’s responsibility to mitigate this tension.
> 
> Any unnecessary tension in the muscles of the rider makes him less supple and less able to follow the movements of his horse. When the rider is not following his horse’s movements, he is making it harder for his horse to move. The horse must work harder to achieve the same movement. In addition, the horse will usually respond to tension in the rider by tensing his own muscles. When muscles are tense, the flexing muscles must use more effort to overcome the tension in the opposing muscles.
> 
> ...


This...and I'll add from my experience riding with folks that have a hard time sitting the trot...

1) In some folks, a lot of the lower body tension/stiffness comes from a lack of balance. Work on your core muscle strength (try pilates or yoga) so that you can truly feel confident and comfortable in the saddle.
2) *Don't over think*! You can't relax your body when you're constantly thinking about your body position. Let go and your body will naturally follow the horse's motion.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

I feel your pain!

I thought I was pretty good at the seated trot until yesterday when I tried it in my English saddle instead of my Western one. Holy moley it was awful!

My half-draft has three different trot-actions that I can feel, and only one of them is sittable by me now. I don't know what happened. I used to be way better at it (although never great).

Sometimes she does this really floaty boing-boing trot that throws me up into the air about a foot with every step (her back is very rounded during this trot and her head low), a very fast boingity-boing-boing-boing-boing trot that feels like a jackhammer (back is not rounded and head is up - she uses this when she's just cantered or is trying to catch a horse up ahead of us), and last a dut-dut-dut trot that I can actually sit for short periods (head in regular relaxed position); it's gentle and what I'd guess is considered a nice Western jog. It's slow and steady and much nicer than the other two.

My instructor has me lean waaaaay back and hold onto the saddle pad to get used to the rhythm and feeling it, but now I'm wondering if that's set me up for bad form now. It works for many of her students, but now I just can't seem to find my balance. I've asked for longe line lessons bareback to help me find that balance I'm definitely missing.

I've been reading Don Matschull's book (Quiet Riding) and he suggests that riding on your pockets (an expression I've been taught under) is a mistake, that you should put weight in both your seat bones and crotch bones. The few times I've done that, my body has finally stopped bouncing and it feels better. I guess I need to get back to that, but my instructors are always yelling, "Lean back!" What to do, what to do .... what feels right or what your instructors tell you?


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

As a point of clarification, there are no crotch “bones”. When using the crotch for support, the rider is supported by the broad expanse of muscles and tendons between the pelvis and legs as well as the seat bones. 

If you stand in a squatting position and feel along the bottom of the pelvic bone you can feel as it rounds from the more vertical portion to the more horizontal area. This would be the area a rider rests upon when “sitting on his pockets”. Further forward, you should be able to feel another slightly rounded area. This area, which I refer to as the seat bones, lies in a more vertical alignment with the hip joints when the rider’s back is balanced in an upright position forming its normal shock absorbing curves. 

When a rider sits in this position, which may be likened to the middle of the “rockers” of a rocking chair, he is free to make subtle changes in balance by rocking on his pelvis. This freedom to rock the pelvis allows the rider to better follow the motion of his horse’s back. Rather than leaning backwards, it is best to keep the spine more upright and allow the back and abdominal muscles to rock the pelvis. Using this action, the rider may more easily maintain his balance.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I don't know about anyone else, but my pelvis doesn't do much rocking in a saddle. Don't know if that is because of a lower back injury when I started riding, or being 56, or being male...or if belly dancing just isn't in my future.

It is kind of like when folks talk about the horse's back rounding. This is a horse rounding its back as much as possible:










Look very round? Yeah, not me me, either. And that is about how much rounding MY back would do in absorbing the lifting motion of the back - darn near none.

There are a couple of ways that work for me in absorbing shock. One is letting the muscles of my thighs absorb some - muscle tissue can be pressed into, but bones cannot.

Second, minor motion can be absorbed by my thighs going apart and together. It is not something I do, just a natural result of my weight shoving me deeper in the saddle as the horse comes up underneath me. That is where long legs help.

Third, my hips are a HINGE. Just as in cantering, that hinge can absorb motion - but only if my shoulders are not directly over my hips all the time. I drew some lines on the picture below to show what I mean:










If you watch some top dressage riders on a bouncy trot, they do the same sort of motion - although it is sometimes hidden by the coat they are wearing. They don't have their legs out front, but it works the same - using the hips as a hinge. Try viewing some videos on YouTube and freezing it at various times during a big trot.

In western riding, being "on your pockets" is normal. That sets you up for having your hips as a hinge. The same can be done in reverse in a forward seat. Since I love a forward seat, that tends to be my preference. It looks strange, but it works because the principle is the same - use the hips as a hinge, because your hips can easily flex a lot and your back cannot flex enough to absorb very much motion.

Fourth, you can use your legs as a shock absorber. Put pressure on the stirrups and pulse. Your feet do not need to be underneath you for this to work. They can be angled ahead like the cowboy above. When the motion gets big enough, put some pressure on the stirrups and raise your seat slightly as the horse's back goes down, then settle in as it comes up - a poor man's posting. Done with subtlety, it will be hard to see you are doing it. 'Posting' doesn't require one to come 6 inches out of the saddle.

Worst case, go to 2 point and get your rump out of the saddle. If the horse is being choppy - and they can choose to do so - and if the frequency if fast, then that is the best bet. The correction for that is to change your horse, not yourself - but in the meantime, even a beginning rider can stand slightly in the stirrups.

For ecasy: when I try leaning slightly back to create the hinge, I find it easier in a western saddle. Why? Because my western saddles all have tall and steep cantles, compared to my much flatter English saddles:



















For a jump saddle, my rumps will slide back too easily if I use the western technique. It doesn't make either right or wrong, it is just adapting my style of riding to match my tack.

Also, if I lean back slightly in English, I'm putting a lot of weight onto the loin, and the saddle is not designed for it. With a western saddle, there is a LOT of weight distribution BEHIND the cantle...so putting weight back there is fine. That rear weight distribution is missing from an English saddle, but it is what a western saddle is designed to do:


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## Starcailer (Aug 22, 2014)

For me it is all about the core. I think about keeping my upper body still and my lower body with the horses movement. If I am starting to go all over the place I stop to think, what will keep the top half still and bottom half flexible? I need to tighten up my core muscles!

Lunge lessons help a ton. I just did one last Friday with my trainer, and its a great test of balance. Could you trailer to a trainer or just go take a seat lesson at a barn, just so you know what it feels like?


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

Explaining how to ride well is complicated by how both speaker and listener understand the movement of the horse and rider as well as the anatomy of each. Some of the best athletes have difficulty explaining how they use their bodies.

As a German cavalry officer Wilhelm Museler competed in both dressage and showjumping prior to World War I. Museler’s book “Riding Logic”( published in 1931) became a bestseller and appeared in many editions and many languages. In their book “Anatomy of Dressage” (translated into English in 2004 and co-published by the United States Dressage Federation), father and son Heinrich Schusdziarra and Volker Schusdziarra point out how some of Museler’s explanations of how to ride were anatomically impossible. In the forward of their book, these men – both medical doctors and riders – mention that even they did not always share the same opinions.

We can add to this the fact that various riders are variously proportioned, ride in a variety of saddles, and ride horses with varying conformation and movement. Various riders also expect their horses to perform in different ways such as hacking, racing, roping, reining, jumping, etc. Riders are also affected by a variety of physical limitations such as scoliosis, rods in their spine, arthritis, etc. I have even worked with a rider who had Parkinson’s Disease. 

A rider may ride any old way and expect their horse to adapt. Thankfully, horses are very adaptable. However, when a rider strives to ride in such a way that he makes it easier for his horse to move the way the rider desires, the horse’s movements will become smoother and more relaxed.

The study of riding theory is helpful in this regard. But theory alone is not the answer. The rider must ride, think, experiment, and feel how his horse responds – or how various horses respond. A caring rider should never be satisfied. There is always something new to learn.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

> A caring rider should never be satisfied. There is always something new to learn


 I had to repost this so I could like it a second time. I feel like I have more and more to learn every year.


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## Rebelwithacause (Aug 7, 2013)

This may be _extremely elementary_ as I am fairly new to riding and am taking lessons, so I apologize if it is too much of a "given. But one thing that my trainer constantly is reminding me when transitioning from a gait to a canter ( I ride a gaited horse), is to remember to sit deep like TXHorseman mentioned and heels down and straight. 

When the horse picks up their speed and you begin to feel the unbalance creeping in, it's human nature to try and regain balance by pushing your feet out a little then clenching your legs. Your body tends to think " clenching with the top while creating a base at the bottom will gain me balance and stop the bouncing"... Doing the opposite-- sitting deep, heels down, not balancing on the reigns or with my upper body absorbs the shock much easier than clenching or trying to use my upper body to regain control. Cantering in the neutral position allows me control when my horse gets bouncy and I feel like I am beginning to slide around the saddle too much.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

You might be careful with the heels down part. Heels down with a RELAXED LEG are good. Heels down with lots of tension shoving them down is bad. A more useful description that helped me is to let the weight *flow uninterrupted* into the heel - so no gripping with the knee and no pushing down...if weight FLOWING into the heel doesn't lower it, don't worry about it.


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## Rebelwithacause (Aug 7, 2013)

Good call!


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

bsms said:


> You might be careful with the heels down part. Heels down with a RELAXED LEG are good. Heels down with lots of tension shoving them down is bad. A more useful description that helped me is to let the weight *flow uninterrupted* into the heel - so no gripping with the knee and no pushing down...if weight FLOWING into the heel doesn't lower it, don't worry about it.


Good way of putting it, bsms.


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