# Low hands help...



## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

What discipline are you riding?


----------



## Ninjarider (Jan 12, 2013)

english


----------



## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Shall I guess that by "English," you mean a forward style/hunt seat saddle?


----------



## equitate (Dec 14, 2012)

You want to have a straight line from the elbow to the horse's mouth (both when the viewer looks at you from the side, and when you look from above. The thumbs should be rather upright/highest point; this keeps the upper arms closed to the body (and the upper arm should hang vertically).

WHY carry the hands higher? Because low wide hands create pain on the bars and precipitous flexion, so the horse will be too closed first and then often come above the bit in an effort to avoid the pain.


----------



## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Try resting your knuckles just in front of the horse's wither, or use a neck strap to hold onto. 
It's about muscle memory, if you have something physical to focus on it will be easier to correct your hands than only thinking 'hands up'.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## equitate (Dec 14, 2012)

Resting the knuckles will lower the hands, and holding a neck strap will tend to create piano hands.... those go against what the op is requesting AND they straighten the elbows away from the trunk.:-|


----------



## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

We used to use an elastic band and string on our upper arms (just above the elbow - string around arms then tied to elastic band that went behind your back; tension adjusted so that if your arm was where it should be there would be none to minimal pressure from the string). The purpose was to keep your arms (and consequently your hands) in their proper position. Elasticity was important in the event you needed to make 'save yourself from injury' adjustments.


----------



## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

equitate said:


> Resting the knuckles will lower the hands, and holding a neck strap will tend to create piano hands.... those go against what the op is requesting AND they straighten the elbows away from the trunk.:-|



Sorry I must disagree with this. Resting knuckles/using a bucking strap is a tried and true method for getting the rider's muscle memory correct in positioning of the arm.
The upper arm should rest beside the upper body, there should be a slight bend in the elbow which changes as the rider posts, or the horse canters, etc, in order to keep the hands still relative to the horse's neck. The best way to train this is to have the rider use a bucking strap until s/he has good muscle memory. Some riders (myself included) who have stubby arms will find that they have to carry the elbows infront of the torso, this is not incorrect. What is correct is to have the hands quiet and independent. What is incorrect is to have the hands too high, working backwards and pulling (as is seen in 95% of north american riders), likely because of this "posed" thumbs up, heels down mentality.

I do not have a problem with "low" hands. However wide hands are a vice which needs to be stopped. The hands should be no wider than 4" apart at any point. By keeping the hands close together, they cannot drop below a certain point on the wither, they cannot be brought onto the saddle or the leg, and they generally stay in their "box". Riding with a bucking strap is the number one best way to get a rider to hold his/her hands close together and quietly.

Until the rider can effectively press the hands away from the body and use them in a completely independent fashion, the hand position will never truly be correct and the horse will always have a sore mouth from being pulled on. Learning by use of a bucking strap, pressing the knuckles, etc.. is the best way to learn to be kind to a horse's mouth.

Good luck OP!


----------



## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Couldnt have said it better myself, Anebel!
Even now I will often tuck a finger under the velcro of my saddle cloth, to test how dependant I am on my hands. It you start pulling agai st the saddle cloth/neck strap you know there's an issue to address. 
There is no need to have a 90 degree bend in your elbows!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Kayty said:


> It you start pulling agai st the saddle cloth/neck strap you know there's an issue to address.
> There is no need to have a 90 degree bend in your elbows!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you for saying this.. I have been very confused on this since day 1 of learning.


----------



## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Who's ranked #1 in the world right now in dressage?










And her elbows are far from bent. She has stubby arms (like me) and to get the independence of the hand she really does have to stretch out in front of herself.
I find I have to do the same thing, shorten my reins to the point where it feels like my elbows are locked and then I can't possibly pull.
If Edward Gal held his arms like that he'd be holding onto the horse's ears. So it does really conformationally depend on the horse and rider. Gal has to have bent elbows or it would be ridiculous, but he can press his hands into the neck halfway up and it looks normal.


----------



## NaeNae87 (Feb 26, 2013)

Try riding with a whip sitting accross your hands, tucked under your thumbs. (like this, but with a whip and two hands)


__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content









Concentrate on carrying your own hands with the whip still tucked under your thumbs. It will feel really weird but, it helps heaps! Also imagine you have cups of freezing cold water in your hands and hold them up, keeping them balanced and still. It works even better if you can get cups of freezing cold water to ride with... It really makes you think about where your hands are... lol


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

when you are riding, you know the old adage "thumbs on top!". 

well, put your thumbs on top, and then think of pointing withe the very tip of your thumb, like a laser, straight to the bit rings. You can't point AT the bit, if your have your hands too low, because then you'll be pointing at the ground. lift up your hands, zero in on the bit and keep that laser pointed at the mouth, no matter where the horse puts her head, up or down.


----------



## equitate (Dec 14, 2012)

No one is suggesting a 90 angle in the elbow, that would likely break the line straight line from elbow to horses mouth. The use of a bucking strap is really only for work on a lunge, to stabilize the seat. If used as a way to still the hand rather than stablize the seat, the upper arm is too advanced to a hang vertically. I too use to say to do this, years ago I too though this low/fixed posture was a good idea, but it is a bandaid. And over the years I have found it then just results in the student having to relearn, which makes it a waste of time. IF the rider is so unstable they need to hold it not to fall back (very beginning rider) fine. But its worst effect of all is that the action of the seat is compromised when the rider has learn to ride with an advanced upper arm.

And yes, the shoulder socket/elbow must allow the telescoping gesture within walk/canter (or the horse will end up nodding/become hyper mobile in the head/neck or slowing/resisting).

The length of the arms has NOTHING to do with it, it is rather they necessitate a different rein length. Oftentimes the arms look short because of the breadth of the rider. The compromise of the positioning of the upper arms (forward) WILL affect whether the seat is able to be used correctly, riders who advance the upper arms often end up having to rider btv in order to have the pelvis work correctly.

The height of the hands has a direct affect upon the behavior of the horse. Hands too low act on the bars, horse hollows. Hands steadily too high the horse will curl over. Hands too narrow befoe the horse finds the center will result in lack of sustaining the connection, hands too wide are slightly unstable. That said: a straight line from elbow to horses mouth is about 6" or more, and opening rein (not sustained open, but an action) helps the horse 'find the center' (And wide hands will prevent a horse who might run out at a fence from doing so.)

Hands which pull (back) is a specific use/action/manipulation, usually from too low/fixed hands because the riders are leaning over the hands. Without a developed/aligned/independent seat (which includes a proper holding of the reins/etc) will be for naught.

I DO have a problem with "low" hands, they are very agressive esp if the horse is low/closed, worse yet when they are too wide.

Keeping the hands narrowed does not prevent them from dropping. The rider has to think they are carrying a tray with martinis, if the tray is too low or forward the drinks will spill/slide off. The mouth is that fragile. Slightly wider (not stiff) allows the horse to find contact/proper bearing the most easily in training. Of course there is always a conflict of the rider learning how to sit/have aid independent aids and that needed for methodical training. And arm/hand out in front of the rider whether low or high will NOT be as stable as a hand which closer to the trunk because of a properly carried upper arm. 

Look at the riders with the most proper (upper arm) alignment: Waetjen, Podhajsky, Klimke, or the newest: Google Image Result for http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02298/horse_2298958b.jpg or gal http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...i=38BaUcePC-3BiwLb7IFI&ved=0CDsQ9QEwAg&dur=70 (Remember too that these riders have narrower hands because the horses are fully trained).

Yes, the rider has to be able to use uberstreichen (give and retake the rein), but to develop self carriage in the horse means that the horse must be 'held by the seat'.

When the upper arm is in advance of the trunk and the horse 'gives to the bit' and flexes (should be only a mobile jaw but is often more), a rider will end up moving their upper arm backward until the hand is NEUTRAL (that only occurs when the rider's arm muscles are relaxed..and that is vertical/thumbs up). Hence the horse is NOT given reward for changing its behavior

What creates a sore mouth? An unstable carriage of a busy hand/arm. Action on the bars or sawing onto the tongue? . Those is an improper use of the hand in which half halts which are the result of a fisted action rather than of the seat or a use of the wrist slightly pivoting. Again, riders are not taught the rein effects as part of training.

Pressing the hands away from the body (except to follow bascule/allow forward,down,out in 'chewing the reins from the hand) are intentional actions for purpose for TRAINING the horse. 

Sitting on a horse WITHOUT use of the hand/arm (ie on a lunge) shows independence. That is why the hands are dropped straight down from shoulder is done, to educate the rider's balance/seat. And to challenge the rider, to open the shoulders, etc exercises like backstroke, swinging, etc are done.


----------



## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

There are so many parts of that post I disagree with, starting with that young horses need wide hands. That's BS. I'm sorry.

I'm public with my riding but equitate I have yet to see a photo of your amazing riding skills. Yes I do compete and you may not respect my competition results, but my horses are happy and ridden correctly. My most recent trainee has been undersaddle for 8 mos and is already working very well in a comfortable manner and learning collection. 

I'm sorry but I find it hard to believe anything written by someone who I believe has received their education from books. I have ridden my way to where I am and these methods have worked for me, my coach, her students, and now my students.

You are expecting an uneducated rider to hope on the horse and express training ideals? Most riders require 5-10 years of plain rider education before they can begin to think about really training in a constructive way.95% of north American riders have not received this training and ride from their hands. Which does make a horses mouth sore. Not having low steady hands, that will protect a horses mouth more than just putting your hand by your chest and hoping for the best a la someones methods that I've seen wreck more horses than he would have people know. A rider needs to learn, low hands are part of learning. When the hands are steady and not pulling, the the rider can begin to raise them and nothing needs to be retrained unless you are pumping like a rig worker wtc. Which is wrong. The upper arm is always quiet and the only mobile part to accommodate the horses movement is the elbow. This is because a collected horse does not use his neck and front end to get around. But those who have not ridden a collected horse do not understand this and advocate pumping the arms in walk and canter. Which does not promote a collected horse, but instead allows him to be strung out and using his front legs to get around.
The hand is not rigid, it is steady.

Also, yes arm length makes a huge difference in riding and anyone who says not is full of it. Rider anatomy makes a huge difference in riding. It's like Equine conformation. Unless you are advocating certain methods where everyone sits on the horse like a sack if potatoes, hands by their ears, pulling and doing a western jog and calling it "collection" because the neck and back are so hollow that the poll is the highest point. That is not classical dressage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

When I taught I had several students with hard hands, who had started at other riding academies. I was using my safe horses, and I made them a 2nd set of reins from baling twine. The twine was tied from bit to bit, about the same length as the reins, and the students held these on the outside of their pinkies. This was a 2nd set of reins, similar to riding a double bridle. Every time they failed to follow the mouth, the twine dig into their hands, even though I insisted on everyone wearing riding gloves.
It isn't how high or low you hold the reins, it's how sensitive you are to the mouth. A horse moves his head back and forth at the walk and the canter. If you lock your hands at the walk or canter you WILL hit your horse in the mouth every stride. He keeps his head steady at the trot, and I learned to put my knuckles on the withers in front of the pommel, when I ride the posting trot. That's probably where this is from, teaching the posting trot. I like the idea of a neck strap. Even better, if you could spend some lessons on a very safe horse on the lunge, so that you can focus on your seat, first.


----------



## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

anabel, every time I read one of your posts I want to be your riding buddy. =D


----------



## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

There is a time and place for riding with hands apart, and riding with hands the width of the bit. When you break a horse in, you need to communicate more clearly, thus you pull out for turning and sometime accentuate the rein aids to a novice horse.
For a horse broken to a discipline, you DO want your hands close together. At that point said horse should be able to be turned and halted easily in this way.
I school with almost straight arms, and either neck rein (which I teach ALL of my horses to do) or direct rein, hands ~ 5 inches apart. I've only owned 2 horses over the years that I could trust hacking with just a halter and lead--probably could have ridden both bridle-less, but they have both passed on. I always want enough rein to half halt and halt and turn. Even when I trail ride with a loose rein I still keep my hands on top of, or in front of the pommel, and I often choke up or let rein out during my rides. It's just become a habit, and I pride myself on keeping my horses' mouths soft, simply bc I want good brakes!
It's common sense, not a style.


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

The old fashioned UK instructors used to stress the importance of low quiet hands
However low hands in a novice can be a sign of a nervous rider that has balance issues though and is constantly wanting to stay close to the mane/neck
Some lunge lessons on a sensible horse would help if you can ride with your hands resting on your knees and also with folded arms to prove to yourself that you don't need to use your hands in any particular position to stay on board if you feel that is your problem


----------



## equitate (Dec 14, 2012)

Agree with corporal and jaydees comments. There is a difference between hard hands and carrying them with proper alignment. Alignment is functional. Ideally that means NEUTRAL and receptive, and being part of an independent seat. Of course that takes awhile to develop. But the accepted 'rules' of ear/shoulder/hip/heel/straight line from elbow to horses mouth/upper arms hanging vertical help the seat function optimally. These ideas are based upon what I was taught, as well as starting 10-30 horses yearly, as well as many students from beginning to fei. And I also am a judge.

Book are great for thinking out theory, but time riding as well as training and teaching is living in the real world.

There is a vast difference between wide hands per se and 'funneling the horse into a connection. There are reasons for the use of the rein effects, and equally how close the hands are held and why.

Should the less educated rider express training ideals? Ideally they are given time to develop a seat on a lunge before picking up reins. On this side of the pond, it is rather learning equitation while learning how to train their horse. Nevertheless the closer to ideals they are, the more easily the horse will be trained. That said, it is all rather like learning to play chess, learning what action creates what reaction in the horse.

I agree that too many riders do 'hand ride' rather than let the horse meet the hand with steady connection. But low hands often are locked at the withers most often causes either resistance or over flexion. When I was young I also taught what you have stated: low hands/hold a strap/etc., and in the end the riders had much more difficulty in learning a correct upper arm positioning and in identifying the correct seat('s use). In the end the rider must learn the rein effects and a proper posture, each feeds back into the other.

NO one should have their hands to their chest, and should NEVER pull back...the horse meets the rider. That is why the rein effects, and the different rein holds, have always been taught. Those things are not what the pix of Gal/etc show. 

When the rider is following the bascule of the horse (in walk, canter, jumping, and seeking forward/down/out/stretching), it is not just the elbow. The elbow allows for an up or down action, or can be opening(taking the upper arm forward). But for opening the shoulder socket must be part of that mechanism.(the same idea of our walking briskly). A very collected horse which is sitting more has need for use of its 'balancing rod' neck, it is more lifted/arced, the bascule is minimal at that point. The action is NOT pumping, it is holding a light connection with the mouth and allowing the horse to use its body. Collection comes after the steady connection, after bit acceptance morphs into the horse being 'on the bit' (with greater degree of longitudinal flexion), and after half halts can produce more flexion of the hindleg joints and a shorter base of support. IF the bascule or the horse is not allowed at the beginning, the use of the neck (in walk and canter) will be restricted. If that happens the horse's natural movement will be restricted, and they will either flex (at the wrong vertebrae) or slow (because of the lack of allowing the body's action).

EVERY rider learns to deal with their own anatomy, tall/short/long waisted/short waisted/etc. But the alignment of their spine is what allows the horse to be ridden 'from the seat'; that has always been required for refinement in riding. Here is a rider which is 5'---on a team--and carries her (shorter) arms vertically Google Image Result for http://equisearch-media.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/debbie_mcdonald_brentina_bulletin_400.jpg

Imho its always a refinement of equitation to allow for refinement for (ease in) training.


----------



## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Equitate sorry but I agree with Anebel. 
please do share your experiance, Anebel freely shares her experiance and how she obtained it She also freely shares photos of her riding (including I believe a video of a GP test).
Kayty also shares photos and evidence of her experiance.

I would pay good money to have a lesson of either Anebel or Kayty (next time you girls are in the UK you WILL come and give me a lesson) but you I have no idea about.

OP - I find that attaching a short strap between the d's of the saddle and riding with my pinkies hooked under it helps alot, more so than hooking fingers in the saddle cloth as I struggle to keep hold of that!


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Ninjarider: Do you know WHY you ride with your hands too low?

I'm more of a western rider who uses a *******ized forward seat in an Australian-style saddle, so I won't offer any lessons in dressage. However...

It may be just a bad habit. Most of us pick up a few, and I've picked up more than most. But if it is a bad habit, then you simply need to get used to holding your hands elsewhere. When I started making the switch from using two hands with the reins to riding one-handed, I was amazed at how freaky it felt! It seems totally unnatural, and having only one arm ahead with the other relaxed at my side impacts my shoulder position, my seat, my balance - everything. No, I wasn't using the reins for balance, but the body position using two hands balances differently than when using only one.

If it is just a bad habit to break, you could try doing things like riding a western trained horse one handed & freak your whole body out, or riding with your hands too high (and a loose rein) for a few minutes at a time just to get your body out of its habit pattern.

It could be the horse you ride tends to pull your hands down. Mia has done that with me many times. She sometimes wants to feel a lot of pressure on the reins. I don't know why. She'll place her head lower and lower, getting more and more rein, then pop her head up and have a ton of slack. I'll take some of the slack out, then we start the cycle over again. After 10 minutes, she'll stop it and go back to normal - which is level head and slight slack in the reins, for us.

Where does your horse place its head? Big horse, small horse, big rider, small rider...they can all have an effect. 

Talk with your teacher about WHY you put your hands too low. Sometimes it helps to shake things up. Borrow a western saddle, and use the horn as a guide (with my Aussie-style saddle that has a horn, my wrists [or wrist, singular] should be near the top of the horn).

Now for a pet peeve: Proper equitation for a sport is the form that works best at high levels of competition. It is a goal. And at high levels of competition, you have a very skilled and athletic rider on a highly trained horse.

My $1200 Arabian mare isn't highly trained. She doesn't spook nearly as much, but she still does the OMG Crouch about every 5 minutes on a trail. I injured my back on one side a few months after I took up riding, and the stiffness is only starting to leave. That still affects me every time I ride.

Riding is a lifetime journey, but you have to ride in the present: THIS horse, THIS rider, THIS skill level. Over a 5 year period, I'm finding my heels are sliding back toward my hip, but it would have taken concentration and tense legs to PUT them there when I started. Tense leg muscles hurt riding far more than heels a little forward.

A top dressage rider will ride differently than me. Duh! I'm not a very athletic, skilled rider! I'm a serious rider. I care about riding right. But taking up riding at 50, and riding maybe 3 hours/week, means Mia will never have the training to sustain a collected gait, and I will never ride like Gal or anyone else successful in dressage. Nor should I. Not my horse, not my style, not my goal. I can admire someone without needing to imitate them!

Instructors, IMHO, need to remember that proper riding is what works for THAT rider on THAT horse at THAT time, and be willing to flex as needed for the goals and training of the horse & rider.

Back to the OP: Talk with your instructor. Hand too low or high WILL affect your riding, your seat, your balance, your horse. Maybe post a picture. Then the real riders on this forum may be able to offer advice based on you and your horse. And if what I wrote doesn't help, then feel free to ignore it! I'm a beginner rider, and offer it FWIW.


----------



## equitate (Dec 14, 2012)

Bsms, good points, well made. Agreed.

Faye, note that I said that at one time I agreed with the point of view of Anebel (who has posted a nice I-1 vid) also, but time and years of expirimenting with the long term application of different methodologies have changed my mind and what I suggest. The fix easily creates other problems, we pay our money and take our choice. And each choice comes with a positive side and a negative reaction. So, my suggestions are based on long term time-tests and how application of theories work on real time riding and horse's behaviors. (I have five students who have now created their own gp horses, two have done two, and one has developed five), so I have found how profoundly staying close to theory works in the read world. (And think that the OP's trainer makes those insights as well.) One of these days I might put together a site or pix, but it is simply a matter of time and priorities. Meanwhile, if people want to choose to think about the questions I pose or the info I offer, fine. But my specialty is developing useful aligned seats and changing riders into trainers with good timing (as well as depth in working with piaffe/passage with two of the top in hand trainers in Germany). No one is making another do anything, just always think out the long term results.


----------



## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Ugh I'm always being told to lower my hands, I'm short and when I start lowering my hands to close to the wither I find I tip forward because I'm reaching beyond what is a natural position for my arms/hands and my back starts rounding.......I ride on a very loose rein (reining) but have very very steady hands.....albeit a bit higher than what is preferred. But I have a good seat, open shoulders and steady hands......


----------



## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Muppetgirl said:


> Ugh I'm always being told to lower my hands, I'm short and when I start lowering my hands to close to the wither I find I tip forward because I'm reaching beyond what is a natural position for my arms/hands and my back starts rounding.......I ride on a very loose rein (reining) but have very very steady hands.....albeit a bit higher than what is preferred. But I have a good seat, open shoulders and steady hands......


We are ALWAYS working on things, if we don't ride every day. I was watching a tv trainer recently and was reminded that I look down too much. Isn't it great that every riding hour isn't in the show ring?


----------



## equitate (Dec 14, 2012)

> Equitate, the fact that you quote a couple of riders who's horses may be at GP but deffinatly DONT look relaxed or happy doing it, and riders who advocate Rolkur AND have been filmed riding in it for extended periods of time with horses with BLUE toungues tells me all I need to know about your style.


 Actually that tells you nothing about me. I agree that are not relaxed nor happy, because the riders are attempting to ride the horses up and open when they are not schooled in that posture. I do not quote a pix, they are just the horse's de jour that I grabbed quickly to illustrate a rider arm posture (which they actually rarely show, hands are often low). Why not look for pix which I recommended of Richard Waetjen, Alois Podhajsky, or Karl Mikolka (who I saw ride and rode with in real time). I have been a passionate campaigner on the subject of broken postures/torqued curbs and rk since 1984 and Remmie at Aachen (before many were born) because of the profound effects upon the (purity of) gaits, the balance, and a number of other things. That said, one of the pix do show more traditionally schooling (with a small rider like DMcD). Like Maria Gunther (wife of Bubbi...a man with a really non rider proportion who was a top trainer), I support traditional training and can tell you biomechanically why I do so.


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Corporal said:


> We are ALWAYS working on things, if we don't ride every day. I was watching a tv trainer recently and was reminded that I look down too much. Isn't it great that every riding hour isn't in the show ring?


 I do exactly the same thing - look down too much - and also slightly drop my inside shoulder. I have old pics of me from when I was a child and there I am - looking down. When I go for lessons the instructor/trainer is constantly yelling at me to not do it but it creeps back.
Low hands shouldn't mean fixed rigid hands - not sure if I would like to see someone other than a beginner using a neck rein to lock on too. Different horses also respond to different ways of riding and a well balanced rider with good light hands should be able to have their hands in pretty much any position and not cause pain to the horse.
I've seen some very good informative posts by *equitate*, *anebel* and *kayty* - people are entitled to have different opinions


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Muppetgirl said:


> Ugh I'm always being told to lower my hands, I'm short and when I start lowering my hands to close to the wither I find I tip forward because I'm reaching beyond what is a natural position for my arms/hands and my back starts rounding.......I ride on a very loose rein (reining) but have very very steady hands.....albeit a bit higher than what is preferred. But I have a good seat, open shoulders and steady hands......


 
I'd rather have the problem of needing to lower my hands, than being told constantly to raise them. The latter is a habit that is much harder to break. kind of reminds me of the way that it's much easier to break a horse of the habit of coming above that bit, than it is to break the hrose of the habit of coming behind the bit.


----------



## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Corporal said:


> We are ALWAYS working on things, if we don't ride every day. I was watching a tv trainer recently and was reminded that I look down too much. Isn't it great that every riding hour isn't in the show ring?


Ya and I ride five days a week......haha! I have come to the conclusion that my arms will not grow any longer no matter how many Cheerios I eat!! I beat the looking down habit - riding in a green reiner warm up pen will do that for ya! Lol!


----------



## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

tinyliny said:


> I'd rather have the problem of needing to lower my hands, than being told constantly to raise them. The latter is a habit that is much harder to break. kind of reminds me of the way that it's much easier to break a horse of the habit of coming above that bit, than it is to break the hrose of the habit of coming behind the bit.


Yes, I don't think my hands are terribly high, but it's something I'm very aware of, but just can't reach forward that far without off setting my seat and shoulders......I'm a work in progress....aren't we all?


----------



## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

tinyliny said:


> I'd rather have the problem of needing to lower my hands, than being told constantly to raise them. The latter is a habit that is much harder to break. kind of reminds me of the way that it's much easier to break a horse of the habit of coming above that bit, than it is to break the hrose of the habit of coming behind the bit.


I think I tend to ride with my hands too low and I think it's because I ride in a western tack (to include my western port) so when I go two handed at home I lower my hands way low because I don't want to misuse the bit. But when I switch to English tack that practice tends to follow....


----------



## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

I ride with my hands just above the wither, where they can move if they need to. 
Yep short stumpy arms for me (and no I'm not wide so my arms arent bring pushed sideways by 'layers' either), I spend a LOT if time at the gym building my core strength and lats, to help allow my upper arms to remain connected to my waist/hips. I am very happy with my seat at this point though it can ALWAYS be better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Kayty said:


> I ride with my hands just above the wither, where they can move if they need to.
> Yep short stumpy arms for me (and no I'm not wide so my arms arent bring pushed sideways by 'layers' either), I spend a LOT if time at the gym building my core strength and lats, to help allow my upper arms to remain connected to my waist/hips. I am very happy with my seat at this point though it can ALWAYS be better.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Gasp!! Haha layers! I don't have layers......yet!!! :wink:


----------

