# Critique this yearlings conformation.



## Sheltie (Jun 21, 2013)

Hi all,
I am new to the forums, and was hoping y'all would be able to critique my boy's conformation.

The photo below is him as a yearling, he is now 5. Just wanting to hear what everyone has to say about his yearling phase.

Thanks!


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Welcome to the forum! :mrgreen: 

He sure is good looking!


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## Tryst (Feb 8, 2012)

Very mature looking for a yearling. 

First congratulations on having your horse in such fine condition with such a shiny coat! From this photo I would say this horse is a bit upright in the shoulder with a slight ewe neck. Topline is short and strong leading into a very nice croup. The biggest concern to me is his pasterns, which appear long and weak, both front and rear. This horse also appears slightly over and slightly tied in at the knee. He also appears to be a bit straight in the rear, though this photo is not great for assessing his angles in the rear. I would prefer more bone overall. 

I would love to see recent photos to see how he grew up.

Cathy


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## Sheltie (Jun 21, 2013)

I know his pasterns are all sorts of messed up- I was waiting on someone to comment on them 

He didn't exactly grow out of them, but he's never been lame, so that's good!

This photo is when he was at his stud, unfortunately I didn't get him in such good condition, he came off the track and was ditched in a paddock for 3 weeks with no feed. Needless to say.. he was a mess. 

We're slowly getting there, though.


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## Sheltie (Jun 21, 2013)

Bump? Would love to see what others say


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## Tryst (Feb 8, 2012)

Why don't you get some recent pictures of him for us to look at.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

He has a low set neck that is straining to be where it is in the photo (but the photo flatters him and hides this a bit). His shoulder lays back nicely but the point of shoulder is set a bit low and the humerus is a bit flat. This may improve as he grows. He is quite straight through the hind leg.. especially through the hock. His pasterns are very long and weak in front. He has a lovely back and his coupling looks ok.. but he is very well conditioned so a lot of bumps in that area will smooth out. He has good bone and his front knees appear to be correct.

He may improve through the body.. but his neck is still low set and that will not change. 

He is a bit fat.. but if this is a photo from a sale, that is how they are conditioned for sale time. 

He has lovely care and that is nicely evident.


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## Sheltie (Jun 21, 2013)

*Updated photo*

Updated pic of Flynn.
He is now a 5yo.
Please excuse the fluffy coat and him being filthy.. it's the middle of winter here and he isn't looking his best- lol.

In this photo (taken a few days ago) he is 6-7 months off the track.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

I can give you a critique just based on the single photo you posted. Normally I will only take the time if the poster has front and rear views as well, because with the side profile, it really limits how much we can critique. 

I will post my critique tho for you, and I will be using the most up to date picture you added 

Neck length should be one third of the horses total length. His neck is a little bit to short in proportion to the rest of his body, which will make it a little bit less flexible. You will want a good head and neck length for balance and proportion. The head and neck counterbalance what the hind end is doing. Shorter necks are sometimes also associated with a more upright shoulder. The horse is overall very well proportioned which is nice to see.

The photo does not seem to be level. It looks like the horse is standing downhill, so its hard to tell if he is build downhill or relatively level? I would like to say he is level, but can't tell by that photo.

This horse a fairly steep shoulder, making feel he must have a shorter stride which will affect smoothness. Its also factor in degree of concussion to which his leg bones and joints are subject to. The front legs will be more affected, because the front carries more weight.

The angle of the pastern, and the angle of the foot created a straight line from top to bottom which is what you want to see. I do see something that concerns me however, and its the slope of the pasterns. He has longer pasterns as well which makes them weaker and more prone to breakdown. You dont want to see an angle that is less than 45 degrees which is the case in the hind end.

His stifle is lower set and is level with the elbow in the front legs. A lower stifle goes hand in hand with a medium short gaskin which gives you more power in the hind end.

Can't take a look at the hocks, because pictures were not provided tho from the photos provided, he doesnt seem to have suffered any injuries. 

If you provide more photos, we can take a look at a few more things.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

I stand by my original critique. No need to repeat it.


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## CandyCanes (Jul 1, 2013)

I would be concerned about his long pasterns. When you see a horse with long pasterns landing over a jump, the pasterns actually touch the ground. I don't find that happens with horses that have shorter, more correct pasterns. He also has a low set neck, and a bit of a straight shoulder, meaning he wouldn't be able to extend as much as other horses. 
Possibly some pictures from behind?


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## Sheltie (Jun 21, 2013)

Some more pics


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## Sheltie (Jun 21, 2013)

Please excuse his weight in some of these, he'd just come off the track. These show how well he extends out  
(I know a few people said his movement must be choppy/uncomfy ect. It really isn't, and he strides out wonderfully.)


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

He is not all that bad but he does lack fluidity and freedom in front with the trot. 

He is pretty young.. whoever is riding him in the photo would do well to drop their stirrups a hole or two, get their weight off the horse's back and into their heels and sit up straight.. heels in line with their ear. What this rider is doing is riding in a "chair seat" and that really does not help a young horse at all. A longer leg will allow more and steady/calm leg on the horse. Getting weight in heels and off the back will help him to move out better in front as his back is free'd up and that will help him to learn to trot nice and with rhythm without a lot of interference from the rider's weight.


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## Sheltie (Jun 21, 2013)

Elana said:


> He is not all that bad but he does lack fluidity and freedom in front with the trot.
> 
> He is pretty young.. whoever is riding him in the photo would do well to drop their stirrups a hole or two, get their weight off the horse's back and into their heels and sit up straight.. heels in line with their ear. What this rider is doing is riding in a "chair seat" and that really does not help a young horse at all. A longer leg will allow more and steady/calm leg on the horse. Getting weight in heels and off the back will help him to move out better in front as his back is free'd up and that will help him to learn to trot nice and with rhythm without a lot of interference from the rider's weight.


This isn't a riding critique  It's just a conformation critique. She knows that, those photos were taken a while ago.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

ShadowHussler said:


> This isn't a riding critique  It's just a conformation critique. She knows that, those photos were taken a while ago.


You might wish to rethink that remark, when people are willing to spend their time, helping. Elana's post, was done (as usual) with knowledge and in a kindly spirit. There is often, a great deal more to a critique of horses here, than pointing out obvious flaws. Take it in the spirit in which it was offered.

Lizzie


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## Sheltie (Jun 21, 2013)

FeatheredFeet said:


> You might wish to rethink that remark, when people are willing to spend their time, helping. Elana's post, was done (as usual) with knowledge and in a kindly spirit. There is often, a great deal more to a critique of horses here, than pointing out obvious flaws. Take it in the spirit in which it was offered.
> 
> Lizzie


But I didn't ask anyone to critique the riding? Just the horse.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Are these pictures recent? Because at this angle it look like he has a bit of atrophy around his wither area, most prevalent in the recent trotting photo... this indiciates ill fitting tack. Also his topline and overall muscle could be improved.

He is built downhill so it is extremely important to ride him from his haunches instead of on the forehand to avoid injury from stress on his joints.


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## Sheltie (Jun 21, 2013)

He's definitely not downhill, that must just be how the photos show him. He's actually got super uphill, free flowing movement. No, his wither is fine.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

OK. Here goes a really in depth critique. It may not be well received and really.. if the OP only wants to hear "What a beautiful animal" then this is not the place for that. 

I will start by saying again that I like this horse. However, like every horse he has his flaws.

Lets look at him with some lines drawn. In this photo he is set up fairly well and his feet are level. He is leaning over his front feet a bit which makes him appear more level than he is. He IS downhill even here. Not a lot but it is there. Down hill is determined from the point of buttock (which is lower than normal because he is stretched out behind) to the root of the neck). With the level line in place (parallel to the level line at his feet, and a line from point of buttock to root of neck this horse is downhill. NOT a lot but it is there. Set up square behind it would show even more. 

He has high knife withers typical of many Thoroughbreds. The spines at the top of the withers do not determine if the horse is built up hill.. they are simply what they are (long spinal processes). 

His neck ties in low and is short. Again.. the red lines show what would be ideal. In the photos trotting free he shows he is a bit ewe necked with his head drawn up and back a bit.. and substantial muscling on the underside of his neck. His neck is "upside down" and due to his build being a bit down hill and his neck being low, he will work harder to become more balanced and better muscled with a neck that has turned over. It will take training. 

On to the shoulder. This horse is NOT free through the shoulder and has a limited reach at the trot. The shoulder is a bit steep and the point of shoulder is low and the humerus lays at a low angle. If the point of shoulder were located at the X I have drawn on the horse, he would have a much better reach in front. However, the lower point of shoulder and the low angle of the humerus limits his stride. He can extend at the trot but he will never extend with a nice full reach of a really good dressage horse because he is physically precluded from doing so. If his shoulder laid back a little more it would also help. 

None of this really "disses" this horse. He is a nice horse with a lot of potential. He would probably make a really nice hunter over fences as he has the bone and the substance and enough shoulder to likely get even in front over a fence tho I am not sure if he will tightly fold at the knees. The shoulder (again) and the neck set may limit his ability there. 

He needs work on hills and over caveletti to help build his abdominal muscles. He should do well pretty quickly with this because he is short coupled and has nice low knees and hocks and a strond coupling. He is athletic. 

The hardest thing for this horse will be learning to raise the root of his neck to free his forehand as much as he is able to. 

A nice horse with some faults. 

I attempted to constructively critique the riding as this can only help him get to his full potential in spite of the faults.... and he has quite a lot of potential.


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## Tryst (Feb 8, 2012)

Well even if the OP is not appreciative I enjoyed reading the more in depth critique Elana, so thank you.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Here is a bit more on this horse... more illustration if you will.

The circles show the bulging underline of the neck from the low set and the ewe construction. 

Also note that while the trotting photos show just past the full reach of the front leg, the reach is limited by the shoulder and ewe neck.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

I tried to add this above.. but it was too late. 
In the trotting photos at liberty this horse naturally travels heavy on the front end. He has more contact with the ground with his front feet than his rear feet. In the bottom photo where he has his head up, and his back hollow, his hind feet are actually off the ground. Even though he appears up hill in this photo, he is stiff and he is traveling weight front. In the top and second photo it is better.. and in all three he has a hollow back.

His hind legs actually have a nicer and longer reach than his front leg because he is better constructed behind (although a bit straight through the hock). 

Again. A nice horse but with faults that are shown really well in the photos. 

Thank you to the OP for posting this thread. It is great to illustrate what I say and these photos allow for that very nicely!


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## Sheltie (Jun 21, 2013)

Elana, thank you so much for that! You put it so well and really easy to understand! Loved the illustrations, they were excellent! 

I know my boy has some big faults- but I love him, and hopefully we'll do well!  Thank you everyone for your comments, I have taken them all on-board. 

I hope no-one thought I was being snipey- I really wasn't meaning to. I appreciate every comment on this thread! ..also, sorry the pictures were so huge. LOL.


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