# I dont know what to do anymore :( !



## BellaMFT (Nov 15, 2011)

Sounds like you don't have as much time to spend with him and the time you do spend with him your afraid of getting hurt. (Believe me, I know both areas). Can you send him to a trainer or work with a trainer? If not, my thought are it might be best for both you and him to sell him to someone who has time for him.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

You seem to have an untrained horse and dog. Certainly not enough time to train this horse. Is he gelded? If not, do that asap.

It seems to me, as though his basic training, _might_ never have been done properly to begin with. Whether you trained him well or not, he obviously has absolutely no respect for you at this time. And yes, he could quite well hurt you, by what you say. He obviously does have some respect for others, but not for you. 

I tend to think, you should not own any horse at this time, with the little time to have to spare. Also, you are already afraid of this horse and back down to him. And he already has learned that. I don't think it will get any better. Sorry to say that, but it is my thinking. 

Sending him to a pro trainer might shape him up, but what happens when he comes back to you? The same will most probably happen again. Certainly he might respect the trainer, but again, not you.

Lizzie


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## stormylass (Jul 12, 2012)

I truley understand but... sometimes out of love we have to do what is best for them even though it might hurt us. If you can find someone who will ride him, love him and give him a job which will make HIM happy,that is what you have to do. At this time Ii think your parents are right and older horse that is dead broke and can sit for months at a time between rides will much more enjoyable for both of you. This guy is young and needs daily attention and by that I mean more than just feeding.I mean what is up with the hoof chewing???? That is a horse that needs a job!!! I have never ever ever heard of that!! Just my two cents ,hope it helps.


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## aforred (May 12, 2010)

The way I see it, you have some options. They're just not attractive ones.

You could find someone to help you with him, whether you send him somewhere or have someone come to you. It has to be someone with experience dealing with rank horses. Don't be surprised if they earn his respect much quicker than you. But here is the key -- you have to commit 100% to doing it. Which means making the time, and learning from whomever you get to help you.

You could try to find someone who wants a project horse to lease. This is only a good option, however, if you will have time later. Which, unless you make it a priority, is not really likely. Life often gets in the way, you know?

You could sell him. If you choose this option, you could do as others suggested and get a very broke horse that doesn't need daily handling, or you could take some lessons.

I wish you luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

Im doing online College classes to become a vet tech which Is going to keep be busy
but I will have to be at home to take my classes. & I wont being doing any extra actives besides college & my horse. There was never any problem with his training.
I could do anything with this horse before. I rode him in parades on trails on the road anywhere But when he turned four there was lots of major changes in his life like we sold the other 2 horses I got really busy & we switched him from me going out every day feeding him to him feeding himself . the reason we switched to round bales is because my dads friend sells them to us for $20 & they are the best quailty round bales you can get around here & its down the road so it makes it eaiser getting hay & we don't have to store tons of hay at my house he keeps the hay in his hay barn & we get it as needed. I really think he needs a Horse friend that he can play with instead of beating up on me but its hard to afford it when 
you have 5 dogs & people keep dropping

The dog was a stray that stayed & we had her for 2 years & she never bothered the horse till this Lady bothered my mom about having the dog because she just Loved her & wanted her so much & then 3 days later she dropped her in the parking lot of the shelter after she was told to call us if it didnt work out I saw her on a poster of dogs for adoption & she was about to be put to sleep & we went to get her back & someone from out of state had adopted her & then they couldn't keep her because of the pitbull ban & shes not even a pitbull. So we had to drive 3 hours & meet them to get her back.When we brought her back home she was happy to be home but started chasing the horse. So I don't know whats up with her I can't seem to find anyone thats going to be good to her to take her everyone thinks shes a pitbull when shes clearly not since everyone thinks shes a pitbull its hard to rehome her. & i cant just let the dog go some where & be mistreated. We have started Keeping her tied up & keeping her out of the feild she still does it sometimes but no as often but Shes some of the reason why hes so spooky around dogs.

& Yes he chewed on his hoof A few days ago I posted about it asking why I called the vet theres nothing wrong with his hooves at all. I can't get a trainer Not a decent one that I could afford Not with having to pay for college at the moment & most of the people around me train Gaited horses & english & the few that do western training only want to train for Shows. 

I would Love to keep him I just do know how to start rebuling our relationship & Im having trouble getting over my fear of him. I have looked into buying another horse & for some reason everyone thinks that Untrained unbroke horses are worth a lot & its jacked up the prices of well broke horses. & at this point no ones gonna pay much for my horse. Getting rid of him would kill me I would probably be even more upset then I am with whats going on with him because I raised him. & many of times he was the only thing i had to look forward too & im not blaming him for his beahvior I know its my fault for being too busy I just wanna fix it & have my bestfriend back


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## aforred (May 12, 2010)

Do you have a friend that is experienced and confident? Maybe your boyfriend? It doesn't need to be a "trainer" if the person is competent. I am blessed with many friends far more knowledgeable than myself. If I run into a problem, tjey are all more than willing to help out for the orice of a dinner or a beer.

If you can, build a run for the dog. She will be miserable tied up all the time, and yet, she can't be allowed to chase horses.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Okay, here's the thing. He is NOT your best friend. He is a horse, and should be treated like a horse.

You obviously do not have the time to give him what he needs, and probably won't for quite some time.

This horse is unruley, disrespectful and a danger to not only you, but everyone he comes into contact with. This is the type of horse that needs attention daily, to be worked with daily. This is the type of horse that'll take a mile if you give him an inch. He needs consistency. You aren't giving that to him. You can't just expect him to be this great horse when you haven't done anything with him in months besides throw a roundbale to him and check his water a few times a week. 

Even spending 30 minutes grooming him will end up being a training session and make him more mindful of you and his manners.

If you are scared of him, sell him.
If you can't provide training for him, sell him.
If you can't commmit to daily work with him, sell him.
If you can't find someone to work with you, sell him.
If you can't give him what he so desperately needs, sell him.

This post may sound harsh, but it's the truth. He is not getting what he needs from you. You really need to sit down and think if you can provide for him the way he should be provided for. Put the selfish feelings of undying love aside and do what's right by this horse. Right now, you are not doing him any favors and your actually creating a problem horse. He's only going to get worse and worse as time goes on. It'll be hard enough to rehome him with how he is right now, but think of how much worse it'll be after he seriously injures you. You won't be able to give him away.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

If you can't devote at least an hour a day to your horse you really need to look into some alternative options.

I used to work 7 days a week, 6-7 hours a day, but still managed to find time to spend for my ponies. Granted there training was slow. 

I think, even with taking college courses at home you can still manage an hour a day to mess with your horse, even if it's all unmounted. Start with just leading him around his paddock, making him turn and make transitions, practice all his yielding skills and meet every act of disrespect like it's the worst thing in the world. Get him behaving. If you don't have an hour a day to mess with your horse then it'd be best to rehome him to someone who does. Regardless of how good he was selling him now will be hard - it may have to be 'free to good home'.

He won't magically turn back into the horse you used to play with, because you playing with him is what made him that horse. You need to either spend time with him or rehome him, he's very young and clearly has a busy mind and is finding ways to occupy his busy mind.

I really feel for you, it's tough being tight on time, but you need to assess your priorities. Is he at the top of the list or the bottom? I find I waste a lot of time during the day fiddling online - I'm sure if I knocked that off I'd have even more time for my horses. But my internet time is the only time during the day where I can actually stop moving, so to me, that's a priority, sometimes my horses miss out on their daily training in order for me to rest, sometimes I miss out on my rest for them to train. That's something for you to decide and be honest with yourself.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

aforred said:


> Do you have a friend that is experienced and confident? Maybe your boyfriend? It doesn't need to be a "trainer" if the person is competent. I am blessed with many friends far more knowledgeable than myself. If I run into a problem, tjey are all more than willing to help out for the orice of a dinner or a beer.
> 
> If you can, build a run for the dog. She will be miserable tied up all the time, and yet, she can't be allowed to chase horses.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



My boy friend is willing to help me as much as possible. Lucky you I have ZERO friends with horse knowledge My real dad does he used to train show horses but hes not interested in his kids :/ & the dogs not left tied all the time
we let her run in the mornings She goes all over our property 30 acres 
(all mountian side lol ) & then she comes back & we tie her up If we leave & were not here to catch her or if she starts chasing him & we let her run all over our property again in the evenings because shes hyper she doesn't like to play we have tried getting her energy out like that she just wants to Run all over the woods Till shes tired.


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## EquineBovine (Sep 6, 2012)

Is there any way you can allocate an hour or so a day to him? Does he live on your property? If so I would suggest, if you want to keep him, you go out there, with a whip, and get after him when he tries to assert his authority. He can have NO say over you unless you let him. Catch him, get him a smallish area, and free lunge the little ******. If you dont have a round pen, set up an area with tape and standards and make him work. If he is a pushy ******, growl, use the whip to make yourself bigger, be IN CHARGE! If you're worried he will hurt you, pop a helmet on. Unfourtently horses are very large and very strong and theres always a chance things could go wrong. It's just the chance we take with our passion ) Get out there for at least an hour a day and get that little sod LISTENING! 
I've had my mare since she was a yearling and I did the majority of her training. She went through an 'ugly' stage at 4 and I just had to set her straight, QUICKLY. If you don't want to/can't ride him yet, at least work him. Once he is listening to you, get poles out, make it interesting!
Everyone is giving good advice but at the end of the day it is up to YOU. 
Good luck )


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

CLaPorte432 said:


> Okay, here's the thing. He is NOT your best friend. He is a horse, and should be treated like a horse.
> 
> You obviously do not have the time to give him what he needs, and probably won't for quite some time.
> 
> ...





I did walk him everyday even the days I was busy He has Always been walked at least 10-20 mins every day always no matter what He got groomed I just usually only had about 30 mins a day with him to walk him & groom him & put him up Check his water But he wasn't ridden & Horses can be your best friend I didn't mean it in the sense that hes a person I know he has to be treated like a horse he was my best friend in the sense that I spent all the time with him always & we got along. He doesn't act like this with anyone else they correct him & he stops & doesnt do it to him anymore. The past week is the only free time I have had to myself in awhile & i spent it looking into colleges & finally found one that I have enrolled in & it starts as soon as i get my materials from them. So I now I have some extra time till my materials come.
I dont know how much time I will have to myself when I start I may have lots & maybe none I dont know till I start. Anyways Since I havent been doing anything now
I go get him out hes fine I walk him down my driveway (its really long) Hes fine when we comes back to the house & I tried to take him to groom him or turn around or go to put him up his behavior starts. he just wants to eat grass & there's no stopping him. This is what he did today. I went out to him this morning i petted him for & set with him for about 30 mins. I came in ate & then went back outside got him out tied him up started grooming him cleaned his feet & walked him down the drive way I brought him back up because my step dad was calling for me I asked him what he needed & he Just wanted to know what i was doing I went to turn him around to go back down the drive way & he reared up so I did what everyone else did when he done it to them thinking he would stop like he did when he tried it on them I grabbed his halter & pulled down & he came down & i smacked him in the chest & said no & went to walk off again & he yanked me toward the grass So i pulled & got a good hold on him & Went to walk & i knew he was about to rear so I pulled him to the side to prevent the rear & he bolted talking the lead from my hand & he started getting carried away snorting & raising his tail up all high & i talked to him & calmed him down & grabbed the lead & my step dad said just put him up till you both get calmed down so I started taking him back to his feild & he reared once again & i jerked him down & gave him a smack on the chest & put him up I calmed my self down Let him settle & waited till after dinner & went back out with him & he thought I was gonna take him out & he starting running & bucking & i kept talking to him & eventually calmed him down & walked up to him & petted him till it started getting dark then I came inside.


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## EquineBovine (Sep 6, 2012)

Sounds like he is just saying 'get stuffed, I'm the boss, I'll do what the heck I like!' Friking WORK him! Get him LISTENING to you. Cheeky little sod. Set up a round area and free lunge him. Next him he rears, kick him in the guts or smack his tummy with the whip. I know this sounds awful but he is just taking the micky. 
If he is getting too much for you, sell him. Otherwise you're going to ruin him and put yourself in danger. This horse needs working )


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

Hes only reared 2 other times in his life before all this the first time he was only about 1 -1 1/2 & It scared me to death & the next day after that I got him out to lead him & I took a whip with me & he reared & i smacked him with it pretty good & he never done it again after that till Now & if I do that to him its like a challenge to him he just gets worse. Is it common for 4 year olds to go through a naughty stage? I used to lunge him a lot & i had to quit because my spot was being used. & i tried lunging him not too long ago to work him & he acted awful. Basically anything that requires work he doesn't want to do anymore & he used to be a go anywhere do anything horse till he hit four & i got really busy


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Does he know any yielding exercises? Sounds to me like this is a training issue more than a time issue. There are a few big gaps in his training. While he does some things far beyond well, he does some very bad things too.

Rearing is never acceptable. It should be met with repeated disengaging of his hind end (a spinning horse can't rear). Then when he's no longer fussing I'd make him yield his front end, make him back up, make him put his head down and pick it up and put it down again, then repeat allllll those things until he was licking his lips and telling you you're in charge. If he doesn't know how to yield his everything those are skills he NEEDS to be taught - those are the first things he should have learned. He needs to yield all parts with you just stepping into that space and looking at it forcefully. He should know how to back up with you just stepping into his space and telling him to 'back up'. He should know the command to put his head down (this helps shift them out of flight mode). All of these skills will teach him respect AND make him more easily handled by anyone. 

I would start teaching those skills with the basic pressure and release method in his paddock - don't take him out until you have actual control over him.


And I think someone else mentioned this but I didn't see an answer - is he gelded? If not he should be. 4 years old is when they start to come into themselves and begin to test boundaries. You need to fix this before it becomes permanent. 

Let me know if you have any questions on how to do any of those things. I'm sorry if that all sounded harsh, it's really not meant to be - I was just quite taken aback to find that he's that out of control

ETA: I was typing, just saw equine's post. Typically meeting a rear with aggression like kicking or hitting will just get you another rear maybe complimented with a strike. You stick may have been enough to get him to submit when he was 1 year, but he's full grown now and he's ready to fight. Hitting him will just increase his fight mode. Forcing him to yield is the same thing an alpha mare would do to say 'HEY Knock It Off!" but I agree with the rest of what they said


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## EquineBovine (Sep 6, 2012)

In my experience it is but if you don't do something about it they will carry on been naughty. He gets worse because you're challenging him and you need to CARRY ON and not back down. Get at him or sell him.
Got to go to work now but good luck )


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

Yes he was gelded not long after I got him I had to wait like 3 months or so because the vet didnt want to do it because he didnt drop yet. & he Used to yeild to me that was one of the first things he learned after being taught to lead. when I got him he had Never been outside they took him from his mom & he was sold in an auction & then to me the next day when I bought him he didnt even know how to eat grass or hay or anything


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## aforred (May 12, 2010)

PunksTank said:


> Does he know any yielding exercises? Sounds to me like this is a training issue more than a time issue. There are a few big gaps in his training. While he does some things far beyond well, he does some very bad things too.
> 
> Rearing is never acceptable. It should be met with repeated disengaging of his hind end (a spinning horse can't rear). Then when he's no longer fussing I'd make him yield his front end, make him back up, make him put his head down and pick it up and put it down again, then repeat allllll those things until he was licking his lips and telling you you're in charge. If he doesn't know how to yield his everything those are skills he NEEDS to be taught - those are the first things he should have learned. He needs to yield all parts with you just stepping into that space and looking at it forcefully. He should know how to back up with you just stepping into his space and telling him to 'back up'. He should know the command to put his head down (this helps shift them out of flight mode). All of these skills will teach him respect AND make him more easily handled by anyone.
> 
> ...


I agree. He has also learned that acting up gets him put away, which horses tend to interpret as a reward. Also agree that starting this "respect building" for lack of a better term, should begin where he lives.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

aforred said:


> I agree. He has also learned that acting up gets him put away, which horses tend to interpret as a reward. Also agree that starting this "respect building" for lack of a better term, should begin where he lives.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


so I should work with him in his field


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Yup, yup, yup! If he did it before he should do it again in no time. But he's proven he wants to be disrespectful, time for you to reassert yourself. Right after he rears would be a great time to make him work his butt off. If he acts disrespectful hurting him will just upset him more, but making him work is just the worst for him!

Work=No Rest=Yes

When they do the right thing they can rest, be pat, groomed or just left alone, you could let them graze IF they're respectful 100% of the time! Until then NO grass

When they do something naughty, even if it's just pushing into your space more than you want then work them.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

I just need to regain all my confidence that I used to have when working with him also because everytime he rears I shut down get scared & start shaking. i used to not do that & I know he can tell.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Yup - I think that working him in his field, making him yield and all will help you regain your own confidence. Then when he does act up (he will sure enough try again, boys are always testing) you'll know how to handle it, just make him work his bum off.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

Thanks I'm going to try my hardest with him. I guess I'll post for some help when needed since I don't have any people that know about horses I can talk to.
Tomorrow morning I'm going to go out with him & spend a little bit of time just sitting near him & then Ill work on the yielding.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

Three pages and everybody has missed the boat completely.

This is just another case of a horse that has been slapped at and pecked on and nagged at until he has gotten furious and it has turned him mean. This is not unusual. I used to get these spoiled dinks all of the time. Pecking at a horse is worse for the equine / human relationship than leaving that sucker alone in the pasture. Since you are the one that has interacted ineffectively with him the most, you are the one he has no respect for. 

The others that have gotten after him harder and not just slapped around at him have gotten more respect out of him, so that tells me that he is not as far gone as he could be. If he was real far gone, he would attack everyone. HE IS VERY CLOSE TO ATTACKING YOU!

Next, let me clear up a lot of misconceptions spread by people that do not understand horses and what makes them tick:

You don't need to spend a lot of time with a horse. 10 minutes once or twice a week will do wonders if it is quality time that actually teaches a horse something.

Horses do not get bored and do not need attention. They need feed and water. I have horses that stand around and eat for months at a time and only get caught to be trimmed, shod, dewormed, etc until I need them to ride. They stick their heads in a halter, come to the tack-room, get saddled and ride off like they have been ridden every day. They NEVER lay a ear back or act unruly. THEY KNOW BETTER. THEY KNOW WHERE THEY STAND IN THE HUMAN / HORSE PECKING ORDER. They are perfectly happy with it. 

Eating round bales 24/7 is not any part of your problem. Getting too fat is only a problem if he gets obese, has a cresty neck and shows any signs of having metabolic problems. right now, I would say that is the least of your problems.

Taking horses for walks just tells me that some people still think they are 1000# big dogs. Horses do not need to be walked. 

Spending time brushing and grooming is much less important than letting a horse know that you are in charge and he should fear for his life if he is not respectful.

Horses don't get 'naughty'. Kids get naughty -- not horses. 

A disrespectful horse is not being disrespectful because someone is 'challenging him'. This handler should not be on the same level as the horse. That is what is wrong to begin with.

Horses like rule and consistency. WHEN they are handled or ridden, they want to know where they stand. 

So, again, it is not the amount of time you spend. It is the quality and consistency of what you do during that time.

I will try to get back tomorrow and lay out more details.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

Hi, 
I largely agree Cherie on this. I think you are afraid of this horse and thats understandable. I think that the road back will be long and challenging. You are not only going to have to battle back your fears but also correct your horse. You are going to have to fix both you and the horse at the same time. Which is a very difficult task. 

I don't think this horse was trained and perfect as a three year old and lost the plot at four. I am sorry I think you might have thought that it was perfect because you loved him but he was not perfect. No one is perfect, horse or human. Young horses go through stages but they regress based on previous training. Your horse is regressing to act like he does not have any training. If he was 100% perfect honest to god and has regressed to this then I would get the vet out to look at him because something is medically wrong. I don't think the chewing on his feet thing is true. They might be being chewed up by the ground but if the horse is actually chewing on his feet then there is some serious behavior/health issue going on. Horses do not chew on their feet. 

I would sell this horse. I know you love him but you could be hurt or killed by him. As much as you love your horse think of how much more you would love to be able to go out and ride for relaxation. I am currently doing the same balancing act as you are with school (same degree) and horses. I have to say 100% that while my horses may not be perfectly trained yet, they are fun to work with. This is 100% because they have basic manners. I go out to the barn and I ride or fuss with them and it is fun and relaxing even when they are not perfect. 

If you insist on keeping this horse. Please, stop slapping him in the chest when he rears. This is ineffective in my book. You are slapping him, he is a horse, not Rhett Butler your making no impact on him by slapping. You are also punishing him when his feet are on the ground. Which means that he does not think "I should stop rearing" he thinks "I should take out that thing that hits me in the chest when I land before I land." If he reared, I would either move his feet and make him so **** tired that the idea of rearing is as appealing as taking an acid bath. I think its a long road before you. I think you can either decide to fix the horse or fix you and honestly its really hard to fix the both of you at the same time.


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## aforred (May 12, 2010)

rookie said:


> If he was 100% perfect honest to god and has regressed to this then I would get the vet out to look at him because something is medically wrong. I don't think the chewing on his feet thing is true. They might be being chewed up by the ground but if the horse is actually chewing on his feet then there is some serious behavior/health issue going on. Horses do not chew on their feet.


Here is the thread on hoof chewing, complete with a blurry picture. http://www.horseforum.com/hoof-care/my-horse-chewing-his-hoof-136987/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

Look All I asked for is Help On how to correct him I did NOT ask for any Rude comments about me or my horse Yes he was chewing on his hooves I caught him doing it Several times & I cleaned his feet & called the Vet the vet looked at his hooves & said Either he is bored or something was itching him. He chewed the crap out of his hoof Also I think that you have no clue about my horse you have no been around him so you don't know 100% how he is I didn't say he was perfect but he was very far in his training far enough that from may-now of only being walked for 20 mins a day plus grooming should Not have made him act the way that he is acting which is what I really don't understand & I made several calls to my farrier & a few other people They ALL agreed that "some" horses depending on the horse will go though a touchy & hateful stage around 4 years old. They also said although hes been trained pretty well & my farrier knows hes watched me ride & been around my horse quite a bit that he is just trying to be domaint because he hasn't been reminded who's alpha in quite a while. You also have to look at this horses history when I got him he hadn't been away from his mother he hadn't been outside or learned how to even eat. He did Not know what hay was or grass or anything. He was Starved very badly I really don't know how he was even alive Who knows if his mother was even feeding him but I do know he deffiently wasn't eating any food on his own. 
He was Penned up with his mom obivously starved & sold with out mom at an auction & then sold to me the very next day. the people that sold him to me Even said " he hasn't ate since we brought him here" & they had him for a whole day. I didnt get him eating till the next day that I got him I had to get grain & put apple sauce in the grain so the smell would encourage him to eat & I finally got him eating hay & grass. He was on death row when he was brought to my house.
he was soo skinny He didnt even gain wait like he should have for a long time hes been on weight boosters since i got him. Also he was kept with two mares from about 3 months or so after we got him till last fall when my parents decided to sell them. My Step dads friend that has horses also said that his history probably has A lot to do with some of his problems. before we got the mares he had severe seperation problems he thew fits when I tried to leave him Horrible fits he would whinny for an hour after I had to come inside. when we got the mares and he bonded with them he stopped when he sold them he started throwing fits on me again when I left he paced the fence. I got very busy like I said & now hes having behavior problems. Since I got him though he has always been pretty attached to me Even now If i walk out my front door & he knows it is me he whinnys & comes to the gate. 

When I got this horse I was told he was 2 years old & then when we called the farrier he knew excatly where he came from & he questioned them & got correct story the people who sold him to me live down the rd from my farrier. & he said to NEVER buy another horse from them again that I got lucky in just getting a foal instead of some crazy horse thats been drugged up & get on it after the drugs wore off & got killed. because thats how those people are.


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## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

Get some natural horsemanship training ASAP.

Stop blaming "4 year old mentality", stop blaming "he was starved as a child". 

Horse is horse is horse. Unless he is brain damaged, he still operates like a horse.

You need a plan, a lesson plan, you need experience on how to deal with horses. Confidence only comes from knowledge and practice. You only get knowledge and practice from learning a technique. It's much better to be able to out-smart a horse than to out-strength a horse.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

I wish I had pictures to show you but I didnt have my own camera I only have 1 picture of him at age 1 & its of his face. I really dont know how this horse was still standing. I wasn't even sure I wanted to start working with him under saddle at 2 1/2 when I did Because of what all he had gone though & his problems keeping on weight. I made sure that I asked the vet for an ok before I even put a saddle on his back.


Im not saying he has advanced perfect training either but he knew a pretty good bit. He accepted a halter,he would lead, Stand tied ,ground tie,back up, stop,yield to me, pick up his feet, accept the bit saddle I could ride him back him up from the saddle he can one rein stop, He bends & flexes On cue I dont even have to pull the rein I just say touch & he does it, he stands to be mounted, moves off leg pressure & goes off voice commands from the saddle Like I can say woah ,get up & back up & he does it (well he did) He could side pass off just leg pressure. & he can untie him self & smile on command. I could put my sister on him & he would follow me around or I could let her take over & she could ride him alone. I rode him In parades & he did well everyone there comment how well he was trained for his age. He loads in the trailer when asked I open the door & tell him to get in & he will


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

Well its really funny that LOADS of people say that animals are effected by there past. 
If you get an abused horse its going to remember that it was abused


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## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

SplashedOvero said:


> Well its really funny that LOADS of people say that animals are effected by there past.
> If you get an abused horse its going to remember that it was abused


Yes, they are affected by their past, but that doesn't mean that you baby them, humanize them, or obsess over it. The horse is 4 years old now. Even if he was starved several years ago, he still behaves like a horse, not a moody depressed teenager. Sometimes you also have to have the know-how to teach a horse "horse behavior" again, but that's only in extreme cases. Being starved, to me, does not merit much consideration other than making sure his weight is good again. The horse doesn't know "the cause of his cruelty", it just knows that it's starving. And now the horse isn't starving any more, no excuses. I'd say forget all about what happened and focus on what's happening right now. Treat him like a normal horse.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

oh vair oh said:


> Yes, they are affected by their past, but that doesn't mean that you baby them, humanize them, or obsess over it. The horse is 4 years old now. Even if he was starved several years ago, he still behaves like a horse, not a moody depressed teenager. Sometimes you also have to have the know-how to teach a horse "horse behavior" again, but that's only in extreme cases. Being starved, to me, does not merit much consideration other than making sure his weight is good again. The horse doesn't know "the cause of his cruelty", it just knows that it's starving. And now the horse isn't starving any more, no excuses. I'd say forget all about what happened and focus on what's happening right now. Treat him like a normal horse.



Im not I was just telling everyone his past. An age can have a lot to do with it hes young & energized & not getting excercise like he needs. 
None of that matters anyways what matters is I want him to be himself and act the way he has been taught instead of acting like he has never been taught a thing. I was just saying people I asked said his behavior Could be from that or the fact he just young. But I did mention to them if his past had anything to do with it it should have effected him Before this point. I haven't Blamed the horse for anything either I know his issue is Hes Spoiled doesn't have a job to do Bored disrespectful to me & hes got loads of engery.


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## BellaMFT (Nov 15, 2011)

oh vair oh said:


> Yes, they are affected by their past, but that doesn't mean that you baby them, humanize them, or obsess over it. The horse is 4 years old now. Even if he was starved several years ago, he still behaves like a horse, not a moody depressed teenager. Sometimes you also have to have the know-how to teach a horse "horse behavior" again, but that's only in extreme cases. Being starved, to me, does not merit much consideration other than making sure his weight is good again. The horse doesn't know "the cause of his cruelty", it just knows that it's starving. And now the horse isn't starving any more, no excuses. I'd say forget all about what happened and focus on what's happening right now. Treat him like a normal horse.


 
Splashed this is really good advice. It's not about being rude or mean. The fact is that your horse needs to be treated like a horse. I have a four month old foal that doesn't get babied. When she gets disrespectful and I correct it immediately. And I am not nice about it. I treat her just like another horse would. If you horse reared at another horse they would do a lot more than swat him on the chest. This is what people are trying to tell you. You can't always be "nice" to a horse. I love my horses but they are horses. Please listen to the people who are give you really good advice. No one is trying to be rude. Horses can seriously hurt you. You already admit you’re afraid of him. He knows it and doesn't think of you as a leader. Sorry I am not trying to be mean


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## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

I do not want to focus on the abuse part; I just saw it as an excuse as to why he's acting this way. I want to emphasis:

A. Confidence, which you desire to have, come from knowledge, power, and practice. You need to get educated or have an educator come help you in order to get confidence.

B. Start over. Pretend as though he has not been taught a thing if that is how he is acting. When horses are young they cannot take and hold a lot of knowledge (this is why we train them every day).


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

BellaMFT said:


> Splashed this is really good advice. It's not about being rude or mean. The fact is that your horse needs to be treated like a horse. I have a four month old foal that doesn't get babied. When she gets disrespectful and I correct it immediately. And I am not nice about it. I treat her just like another horse would. If you horse reared at another horse they would do a lot more than swat him on the chest. This is what people are trying to tell you. You can't always be "nice" to a horse. I love my horses but they are horses. Please listen to the people who are give you really good advice. No one is trying to be rude. Horses can seriously hurt you. You already admit you’re afraid of him. He knows it and doesn't think of you as a leader. Sorry I am not trying to be mean



I know it just get upset over somethings. I know hes a horse & needs to be treated like one I just figured everyone else slapped him & it worked for them why not me but looks like Im going to just have correct it someother way thats why im here I wanna know the BEST way without getting me or him hurt & im sorry for getting upset. Its just hard to watch this happening when we were doing great. So Ill just Pretend he was Never trained & start all over from the beginning.


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## BellaMFT (Nov 15, 2011)

SplashedOvero said:


> I know it just get upset over somethings. I know hes a horse & needs to be treated like one I just figured everyone else slapped him & it worked for them why not me but looks like Im going to just have correct it someother way thats why im here I wanna know the BEST way without getting me or him hurt & im sorry for getting upset. Its just hard to watch this happening when we were doing great. So Ill just Pretend he was Never trained & start all over from the beginning.


 
Unfortunately I don't have any good thoughts other than if you don't want to sell him find a trainer to help you. Getting a few tips from the internet is not very useful in my opinion. Because you need to know when to push and when not to push. If done wrong you could be hurt. Starting back at day 1 as if he doesn't know anything might be a good option. I really think you would benefit from help from a professional in my opinion. I don't know much other then when I hit a wall so to speak I ask someone with more experience. It's okay to be upset. I think most of us are guilty of that. I wish I had some magic solution. If I did I would market it and make millions....:twisted: See if your farrier can help or knows a trainer.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Phew.. just read thru all of this. I am going to write this and I am not writing it to be mean. 

First, please.. to make it easier to read use the "." at the end of sentences Splashed Overo.. it will help us read what you are writing (and you need to do it for school anyway). 

I am going to share this with you. Here is a horse that was horribly starved and abused. She was 2 years old in this photo first photo and was starving to death. The next photo is the same horse almost a year later. She did not remember or care about being starved. She was fine.. and your horse is too. 

She never bit anyone. She never reared. She was a good horse and she was good because I did not allow her to give me any crap as she got feeling better. I trained her myself.. but that is what I did. 

You are going to get hurt by this horse. He is NOT your "friend." He will kill you if this keeps up. Friends don't do that. 

Just like the dog that gets to "run" every day.. this horse needs TRAINING. You are not the person to do it.. everything you are saying says you are too "soft" in your own personality and experience to deal with him. 

Since you are not capable of handling him and you are afraid (justifiably so), and you have no experienced person to teach you and to teach him, your best advice is to sell him. I know that is hard and not what you want.. but there is a pile of stuff in life we don't want. I am sure you don't want to be hurt by this horse either. 

When your heart is involved it is very hard to be objective... but you need to be for your own safety and well being. You need to work with an older horse and with an experienced horse person so you can learn. If you do that a day will come and this horse will be something you can handle.

Until then.. please... for your own safety.. get rid of this gelding before he gets rid of you..


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

I have thought about asking my farrier If he wants my horse because he really likes him a lot. Or seeing if he will take my horse to his place & work with him & me. In exchange for me helping him out with cleaning stalls or something like that. I just don't want to be a burden on him. I have tried calling around & asking about getting a trainer I have been unsuccessful in finding one that wants to deal with this problem.Everyone i have called wants to train horses for shows.

lol sorry for not putting " . " I just get in a hurry


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## aforred (May 12, 2010)

Never hurts to ask.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I think I can tell you exactly what happened.

Over 50 years of 'fixing' other peoples' horses has also taught me how to deal with these horses and it has also taught me what it isn't. Remember, I am not trying to be mean or personal. I am trying to save you and your horse a lot of heartaches and possible injuries. You have no idea how many horses start out like yours and end up on the slaughter truck because no one got them corrected before they got too mean and got traded off to the only buyer that will buy the severe problems. 

I'll start with the 'NOTs'.

It is NOT because he is 4 years old (unless you count this happening at 4 instead of getting mature enough at 2 or 3 to test his boundaries).

It is NOT because he was starved (unless you consider that he is now fat enough and feeling good enough to test his boundaries.) We have a little saying for this: "He can't stand prosperity!" 

[The one thing I HAVE found in horses that were starved nearly to death is that some of them over-eat and stuff themselves from then, on. I have had a little gray gelding that I pulled off a trader's trailer so starved he was weak and wobbled when he walked. He is one of my nicest trail riding / lesson horses for children. He is 13.3 hands, VERY gentle and a perfect size for little kids. He has an enormous belly. He just never quits eating until he cannot stuff in another bite of hay. Being on round bales is not what he needs, but it is what we do, so he just looks like a Pg gelding. This behavior is not unusual.]

It was NOT because he was abused. Horses live 'in the moment'. They do not relate starving abuse to the abuser. They do not understand lack of hoof care. They can understand 'beating', but that does not sound like the kind of abuse yours got.

I think your horse was poor (very thin). I think you got along with him for a good while because he did not feel good enough to give you a lot of resistance. 

Now, he is fat and his REAL personality is coming through. He has a lot of resistance and he is not the 'easy' horse he was when he was thin. This is REALLY common. When people used to bring us a horse with this same story, we just told them. "Welcome to the REAL WORLD! Your horse just cannot stand prosperity! Now, you have to deal with the actual realities of training and mannering a horse that feels good."

I have helped a lot of people with rescues. The horses start out weak and kind and probably as close to 'grateful' as a horse can be. When they get fat they become 'Holy Terrors'. All that petting and loving and feeding should have been accompanied by some firm boundaries and a demand for absolute respect -- even from a weak emaciated horse. Then, the emaciated ones fatten up with manners and know they are horses. Otherwise, they fatten up like yours.

Does any of this make sense to you? I hope so. I hope you treat it like the reason your sweet little pet has become a monster you now fear. You need to be the herd leader in your herd of two. He CANNOT be in charge and you be safe.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

Yes My horse Looks like hes pregnant all he wants to do is eat He can eat all day & still want to eat grass.
my avatar piture was from back when he was listiening not over weight but not skinny


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## EquineBovine (Sep 6, 2012)

Wow, loads of awesome advice here! ) It's all on you now Splashed, so good luck with whatever you decide )


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## BellaMFT (Nov 15, 2011)

I agree with Cherie that due to his previously poor body condition that maybe he didn't have the energy to misbehave. I know when I bought my mare she was underweight. Not scary skinny but you could really see her ribs, backbone and her tail was pretty prominent. I thought wow she is so mellow and the prefect trail horse. Well when we finally got her fatten up she had a whole lot of energy that I wasn't expecting. Any back to the topic. If your farrier likes him I would ask if he is interested in him. You might be surprised. My farrier loves my gelding and I know that if I ever sell him I would ask him first before I put him up for sale. Just a thought.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

Its just such a hard decision. Its easy to tell someone to sell their horse buts its different when you got to make the choice yourself. I have lots to think about. I think I'm just gonna spend sometime with him not try to work him or anything that's going to get me hurt & try to rebuild our relationship & think it all over. I'll talk to my farrier about working with him & me.If I have to try to scrape & save every penny I can to pay him or work for him in exchange for training. If I can't get help then I'll have to make the decision to get rid of him :/ 

& I'll deff have to get over my fear because, today I started my classes. I was looking through the courses & One of them is handling & restraining Horses. I have to pass a exam on it D:


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

That mare I showed you photos of was draft horse quiet.. until she got looking like the second picture. Then she was Miss Spunk and High Step! Took a LOT of riding to get her tired. She could be a handful.. but I knew how to deal with it.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

I had a mare before that reared a lot. She was a standard bred she had very high energy she always wanted to go go go. she had to be in the lead when riding & if not she would throw little fits. When she wanted to go & you wouldn't let her she would rear just a little. She never scared me I could correct her. She always had to be busy doing something when you rode her didn't matter circles trotting in patterns. As long as she could just keep going she was fine. She was also starved as bad as my gelding. When she acted up I put her to work gave her something to do & think about & she was fine. I never once got as scared with her as I do with him. Which is something that confuses me because she was 15.3 hh & hes almost a hes 14 something.With him he's more I don't want to work & I don't want to learn but I taught him a ton. After I got him into it he retained a lot but hes always really lazy when you first get on him :/.
I just wish this wouldn't have happened


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

I think getting help would be a great idea. It sounds to me like you're very willing to make him a priority. If you are you need to put the work into him. He needs you to be the boss. 

When you're comfortable with it, when you have help, whenever... just get working on teaching him to yield. Even if he already knows he clearly needs a refresher course. Do it in his paddock at a good time when you're feeling patient and quiet. Bring the patient and quiet emotion into the paddock with you - it will help him relax too. Whenever he starts to get a little worked up just stop and stand, sigh deeply and loudly, he'll probably sigh too. Then start working again a little slower and calmer. 
Grooming him isn't going to make him behave yielding and leading is. First start out with yielding practice then practice leading and stopping occasionally to practice yielding a different part of him, or back up or 'put his head down'.

He should be taught to 'put his head down' I think every horse should be taught this. One of our Arabian mares was trained that whenever she gets too worked up she needed to put her head down, now we'll see her do it on her own in her paddock when she gets scared she just throws her head down and dances a little in place until she's calm. It shifts them out of flight/fight mode and into neutral/grazing mode. You can teach them this skill by applying a little pressure to their poll with the halter or with a rope over their poll and applying just a little pressure and waiting. First they'll toss their head up and look all around then the moment they move down, even an inch, release and rub out the spot. Repeat until their nose touches the ground with just a little pressure on the lead rope.
Our Arabian mare I always say she's like a butterfly on a lead rope xD because she's always fluttering around but she's always staying within the range of the rope she's allowed, no pulling or invading space. She gives to every and any pressure but just dances while doing it 

If he doesn't want to do something it's up to YOU to make him! and if he throws a fit about it you need to throw a bigger fit. It's not OK for him to react dangerously just because he doesn't wanna. 

You need to spend time with him and you need to spend time enforcing the rules of yielding and space respect and leading respect on the ground before you consider getting back on...

I think getting help is a great idea.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

Also I think if i can get someone to help me get him away from his field & down my drive way he becomes more interested in what I want him to do.
When I take him out around his field he just shuts down. My drive way is pretty long & wide enough room to have him yield & stuff. I just really think its a bad idea for me to try anything alone at all so I will have someone helping that he does listen to if anything happens that they need to take over. If anything as nice as my farrier is I know he would be willing to give me some help when he comes out again.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

I just read through the other posts. I just wanted to add, I run a rescue of 17 rescues. Each of them have quite traumatic pasts. I myself have a traumatic past so I can relate. And it's not until I let go of the past that I can get better myself. Horses naturally let go of their past, they remember it and use it to protect themselves. Whereas humans often use their pasts as excuses and limit themselves out of fear of the past. We can not take our own fears and instill them on our horses. Our horses know how to handle those situations.

He is being naughty, yes because he's a 4 y/o boy who's had a great deal of time alone. He has become his own herd leader, he no longer needs you. If you want him to need you again you need to make yourself valuable to him again, by making yourself his herd leader.
No more being wishy-washy or allowing him to sit in the paddock untouched, no more just going out to sit with him or groom him. You can do all those things when you're in charge again. 

You need to make yourself a good plan, like someone else suggested, and Follow it! And if you find yourself unable to follow the plan then maybe it is for the best to rehome him. But if you really want to keep this horse and make things right again you need to _work for it_. 

Here's a suggestion of a checklist of things to work with him on. Most of these he may have known, but clearly needs to be reminded.

-Yielding hind end (moving back legs in circles around his front legs which should be still)
-Yielding front end (moving front legs around stationary hind legs)
-Side passing (moving sideways directly)
-backing up (moving backwards from pressure on his halter, no matter where you're standing)
-Putting his head down (his nose should touch the ground with gentle pressure on the halter)
-turning head left and right (turn his nose to his girth area with gentle pressure on either side of his halter- he should do this when you pull the rein from either side of his body, he should be able to turn his head away from you)
-leading (practice walking him around his paddock, stopping periodically to practice yielding another part of his body)
-lunging (just the ability to move him away and get him to walk and trot even circles around you - don't bother for the canter, it's just asking for trouble)
-going out for hand walks (when completely confident in all his ground work in the paddock attempt short walks outside, but NO grazing! Not until he's seriously proven himself!)


I would do it in the order I wrote it in - but that's for you to decide. I would practice each of these skills until the horse is readily moving away from you with only the slightest signal. I would work 15-25 minutes twice a day every day, if not just once would work, but don't go more than 30 minutes, you'll just be stressing you both. Always end on a good note. Any act of aggression should be met with very intense and HARD WORK! Make him work his butt off if he even thinks about acting out. Getting help is good.
If you want to you can go in and hang out with him, but only after working him and No Matter What you need to maintain his respect the entire time. So if you're not willing to be maintaining your stance as dominant, don't go in with him. You can't be in charge 50% of the time. You can groom him - but only if you're willing to get after him and Demand respect!

You need to decide if he's worth that much work to you or not. Only you can decide that.
Good luck, let me know if you need a specific how-to on any of those skills.


ETA: please start in the paddock, if he's not listening to you in the paddock MAKE HIM. Don't take him to a more dangerous area where he's more likely to be distracted by grass or other wants. Start in a safe spot.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

> I think I'm just going to spend sometime with him not try to work him or anything that's going to get me hurt & try to rebuild our relationship & think it all over.


This is 100% the wrong way to go about it. You still think you can build a relationship by being his friend. This is just NOT the way it works.

You build a relationship through respect. 

He has got to respect you to want to do anything for you. 

He has got to respect you to have anything to do with you other than take food from you.

As long as he thinks he is in charge, he will hold you in total disdain.

I wish I could get these points across to people. But, they just keep wanting a horse to be their big dog and want him to be a friend.

Horses trust you because they respect you!

Horses want to please you because they respect you!

Respect has to come first.

All of the time people spend with their horses is useless unless that horse respects them as their herd leader. There is no reason that you cannot gain this horse's respect. He is not a really 'tough' horse or he would not have backed off from the other people around him. 

I think what you need is a 'mentor'. You need someone to show you the ins and outs of 'body language' -- both how to read his body language and how to project a commanding figure in the body language you show him. 

Personally, I would rather see you repair this relationship instead of running from the problem by getting rid of the horse. You are just going to have respect problems with the next horse(s) you handle. You MUST learn to stop 'pecking' on a horse and you MUST learn how to effectively gain a horses respect.

It should go like this:

1) You very lightly ask a horse to do something (like back up or move his shoulder over). If he does not comply:

2) You tell him by applying a LOT more pressure. If he still does not comply: 

3) You get after him hard enough to make him wish he had complied the very first time you asked.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

Yeah but i mean i have to spend time around him till i have someone to help me or should i just ignore him till i can have someone with me & go out there & show whos the boss. I didnt mean like spend time petting him honeslty i dont want to be that close to him till he respects me i mean like study & sit near the gate!


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

well obviously take care of him. It depends what you're comfortable with. If you feel safe working him, just with someone nearby to call an ambulance if needed, do that. If you aren't then wait for the farrier before handling him.


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

Splash, Cherie is right on the money. I hope you can find a mentor to help u. I also suggest leaning all u can. Giddyupflix is a cheap and easy way to learn a lot. Do your research
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

my parents agree that it doesn't matter how great of a horse i have. If its the best horse in the world & i let it become alpha ill have the same problems with it. that i might as well 
show this one i want respect even if i don't keep him or ill be going through loads of horses


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

SplashedOvero said:


> my parents agree that it doesn't matter how great of a horse i have. If its the best horse in the world & i let it become alpha ill have the same problems with it.


Totally untrue. 

In every herd of horses, there will be an alpha. In my situation, even though I am down to just 2 at the moment, my Paint mare is the boss - period. That has nothing to do with how I allow her to interact with people. She can be the boss horse in her pasture but not where I am concerned. She has learned to respect people in general, and me in particular. She is one of the best trail horses, and one of the easiest to handle, that I have ever owned but she can be very harsh with other horses in her pasture until they learn the pecking order.

Your horse does not seem to have any respect for you and that is your fault. As for your hoof chewing, horse chasing dog - either keep it locked up and away from horses or rehome it.

My 2¢ from 30+ years of horse ownership.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

iridehorses said:


> Totally untrue.
> 
> In every herd of horses, there will be an alpha. In my situation, even though I am down to just 2 at the moment, my Paint mare is the boss - period. That has nothing to do with how I allow her to interact with people. She can be the boss horse in her pasture but not where I am concerned. She has learned to respect people in general, and me in particular. She is one of the best trail horses, and one of the easiest to handle, that I have ever owned but she can be very harsh with other horses in her pasture until they learn the pecking order.
> 
> ...




I meant If I let the horse be My boss & disrespect me then it doesnt matter how good of a horse it is its going to do the same if I allow it


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

Anyways. I got my parents to sit outside & i worked with him some & we made some progress. I started out asking him to lower his head when he refused to lower his head then i made him bend & flex & went back to lowering his head everytime he refused to lower his head i made him bend & flex his neck if he refused to do that then i made him yield. He started out pawing & trying to bite so I turned him in circles till he decided to stop. He reared up about 4 times & i held on to him till he came down & made him lower his head. I started watching him really good everytime he went on rear he would first lay his ears back & start to back up so i got to where i could prevent it by turning him. He was doing better & started licking & chewing just a tad & then he got away from me reared & started bucking.He got me pretty good with his hooves in the shoulder. I got him calmed down & i got my lunge whip out since i cant lunge him without him coming after me I worked him in the feild I made him move walk trot & lope. I reared a few times when i tried to make him move. But i felt much safer since i had lots of escape routes if he got dangerous. Soon He got a good sweat worked up on him he was moving when i asked & stopping when i asked & started lowering his head & licking.
When I stopped he followed me all around the field & took him out & brushed him down. he actually let me walk him down the drive way too cool him down. I got him put back up with out no rearing & he stood at the gate & watched me pick up my lead rope brushes & my lunge whip till i went inside. Now my arms are really sore from being jerked around & him getting me in the shoulder when he reared but i think it went a lot better.


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## EquineBovine (Sep 6, 2012)

Well that's a start ) How's your shoulder?


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

just sore but nothing major probably will have some brusing & it'll probably hurt worse tomorrow.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

SplashedOvero said:


> Im not I was just telling everyone his past. An age can have a lot to do with it hes young & energized & not getting excercise like he needs.
> None of that matters anyways what matters is I want him to be himself and act the way he has been taught instead of acting like he has never been taught a thing. I was just saying people I asked said his behavior Could be from that or the fact he just young. But I did mention to them if his past had anything to do with it it should have effected him Before this point. I haven't Blamed the horse for anything either I know his issue is Hes Spoiled doesn't have a job to do Bored disrespectful to me & hes got loads of engery.


Some horses simply don't do well alone. He may be one of them. They are herd animals & right now you are his herd & you're not around all the time. He's probably a big pent up ball of anxiety.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

NO! It is NOT a start. I am sure a fractious spoiled horse that is striking you, biting and pulling you around has really been shown who's boss because you disciplined him by making him lower his head and making him flex.

Good Grief girl! Have you never seen a horse in a pasture discipline a herd member that has disrespected them? They will take a cup-sized hunk out of their hide, whirl around and kick them three or four times in the ribs and then chase them for 10 minutes.

You need some help -- bad. You need someone to show you how to maker this horse 'wish he had listened to you the first time'.

Until you find someone to help show you how to discipline a 1000# animal that is going to strike you over the head and possibly kill you or fracture your skull, you need to just leave him alone. 

You just do not understand what you need to do and what he is going to do to you if you do not figure this out.


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## spurstop (Mar 22, 2012)

I didn't read this whole thing, but here's what I think you ought to do.

Sell this horse. 
Use any money you get to buy something that is broke enough that you can go out and ride and enjoy it when you have the time to go ride and enjoy a horse. 

Horses are a hobby for most people. (No one *needs* a horse.) If you aren't enjoying your horse, and are scared of your horse, then why have it? Get one you can enjoy and aren't afraid of.


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

I agree with Cherie. I'm very worried about you, Splash. Horses can be very dangerous, and yours is only going to get worse with what you are able to do right now. It's not a matter of caring enough or loving enough. It's the right response at the right time and it sounds like you don't have the experience you need to be safe and to help him get better. All it takes is one wrong decision in a split second to get badly hurt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

It IS a start. But it's not a good one. He essentially just told you over and over that HE is in charge, and you let him.

When you say "he refused to do it" you need to, at all costs, MAKE him do it. Ask me and my mare who I fought for over 2 hours today to make her take 2 steps outside her paddock. 

If her won't turn left, put the lead on the left ring of the halter, if he STILL won't turn left increase the pressure slowly, giving him a chance to respond, again and again until ALL your strength is pulling it or he gives. If he gives just an inch you need to release pressure Immediately! a slow response will teach him he didn't do the right thing! Start by making him do it only and inch and slowly build up to him turning all the way. If he won't yield to you pushing all your weight into him get a crop. You need to MAKE him and if you can't do it get someone who can. I hate to have to say that! But every time you allow him to NOT do something you asked is you telling him "ok, you're in charge, you don't really have to..." he NEEDS to do what you ask or face the consequences.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

Cherie said:


> NO! It is NOT a start. I am sure a fractious spoiled horse that is striking you, biting and pulling you around has really been shown who's boss because you disciplined him by making him lower his head and making him flex.
> 
> Good Grief girl! Have you never seen a horse in a pasture discipline a herd member that has disrespected them? They will take a cup-sized hunk out of their hide, whirl around and kick them three or four times in the ribs and then chase them for 10 minutes.
> 
> ...



Yes I have they Kick each other & bite each other! 
I really don't understand how you say to disicipline a horse?
The only way I know how is to make him work when he acts up.
I made him run all over the field Till he was sweating.
What else am I to do beat him? Because smacking him only makes him worse when I made him work he slowly calmed down & I eventually walked him with no problems! But anyways I really am tired of always having to train a horse every horse i have ever had has had problems & its tiring & old I don't even enjoy horses anymore because all I ever get done is training & retraining.
& I wouldn't have even got this horse i had been told the truth because the horse my boy friend called about was a 9 year old mare & then the people brought a stud colt instead . I felt bad because he had been abused so I just took him anyways. I have went to look at other horses many of times & Every time I find one they sell it out from under me. I found this Great palomino mare last year that I really liked for $500 & Because I didn't want the crazy gelding to go along with her they wouldn't sell her to me it was take both or nothing. I'm Really scared that if I sell my horse hes going to end up abused because of his attitude thats something that hold me back from selling him a lot. If I did even put him up for sale I wouldn't even know how much to ask & if I give him away then I won't have money for another horse. I did have someone offer me 1,000 for him but thats before he was acting up & I feel really stupid for not taking it.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

What I was trying to accomplish is something I saw in a horse training article.
If you ask your kid to go clean their room & they get mad then you say ok well your going to clean your room & do the dishes. if they get mad over that then you say ok clean your room do the dishes & vacume the house!
But I don't think I really followed it right I tried. Everytime he refused to do what I asked then I made him do even more.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

If a horse strikes me, I am going to beat the crap out of him. I will go into a fit of rage and flail the devil out of him with my whip. Then we will do whatever it was that I had asked him to do before he attacked me. He won't do it again. 

I am not being abusive or cruel. I am saving my horses from going to slaughter. It is cruel to trick a horse into believing that he can get away with this crap when in reality, he is signing his own death warrant. 

Oh, and the dog has got to stop running the horse. That is not fair to the horse. You either need to fence her, chain her, or get rid of her. An electric collar might help you train her. The horse is going to run through the fence and get killed. He may run in front of a car, get killed and kill the driver, and get you sued. The dog may also be the underlying problem that got the horse so aggravated to start with.

Oh, and if you regain your place in the pecking order, you may have the horse back up and riding fine in just a day or two.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Out of curiosity, is the dog out loose at night? Is the horse loose at night or does he have a safe place to retreat like a stall or run-in? I would check to make sure the horse is able to sleep. I find a lot of issues with newly-grouchy horses are due to just being exhausted. 
My pony, before he was mine, was in with a herd of 3 BIG geldings who pounded on him whenever he laid down - needless to say he didn't get much sleep and became VERY aggressive. Once he moved home with me I see him napping all day and he lets me snuggle with him at night, and he's all together a more pleasant pony now.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

Celeste said:


> If a horse strikes me, I am going to beat the crap out of him. I will go into a fit of rage and flail the devil out of him with my whip. Then we will do whatever it was that I had asked him to do before he attacked me. He won't do it again.
> 
> I am not being abusive or cruel. I am saving my horses from going to slaughter. It is cruel to trick a horse into believing that he can get away with this crap when in reality, he is signing his own death warrant.
> 
> ...



If you smack this horse with a whip he will try to kill you he comes after you teeth bared. He charges & gets 10 times worse.He snorts his tail goes up high & he is mad. Then any attempt to get around with him to ask him to do what you wanted him to do in the first place hes going to just do it again or you will be injured or dead. This is why I avoid using whips unless i'm out side of the fence & I don't go in there with him. The only reason he didn't do that today is because I didn't hit him with the whip I just make it snap for the noise to get him to move & I was Outside the fence I didn't go in there. & when he Hears the whip he rears & kicks out & paws the ground.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Wow. That is a scary horse. I really do fear for your safety.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

PunksTank said:


> Out of curiosity, is the dog out loose at night? Is the horse loose at night or does he have a safe place to retreat like a stall or run-in? I would check to make sure the horse is able to sleep. I find a lot of issues with newly-grouchy horses are due to just being exhausted.
> My pony, before he was mine, was in with a herd of 3 BIG geldings who pounded on him whenever he laid down - needless to say he didn't get much sleep and became VERY aggressive. Once he moved home with me I see him napping all day and he lets me snuggle with him at night, and he's all together a more pleasant pony now.


Yeah the dog is kept inside in a cage at night. He has a shed to go in its big enough for him to lay down in & everything. Were getting ready build a small barn. we have been keeping a close eye on the dog shes not turned loose unless we are here to make sure shes not bothering him we have prevented her from chasing him for about 2 weeks. If my house weren't under consturction we would have a fenced in back yard & she wouldn't even see the horse.
You would think with his attitude he would kick the dog when she chases him but he runs & hides. The worst I have ever seen him do is chase her back but he always stops when she gets close to the fence.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I do not want to tell you any more things to do. I just know you will not use enough force or pressure to do any good and you are only going to further anger him. I really fear for your safety and really do not think you should handle him at all until someone comes in and gets him straightened out and then shows you how to put enough pressure on him to fix the problem. 

'Smacking' him is not the answer. I would not hit this little twit unless I though I could leave a big welt. If I put a chain over his nose, I would not stop jerking on the lead until he was running backward sure that I was going to kill him. When I got through with him, I would want him to think he was really lucky to be alive. I would want him 'clacking' and chewing like a baby colt. 

I'm old and crippled, but I bet I could make him run backwards and blink his eyes. I am grinding the enamel off of my teeth sitting here just thinking about him trying to strike you over the head. 

Please leave him alone for now.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

Splash, I am sorry if I hurt your feelings that was not my intention. I do think this is a dangerous situation. I am worried that in the last few days he has gone from rearing to rearing and striking and making contact. Horses know their body and they know their limits. They can decide to hit you or not hit you. I have a mare that when scared in a river bed with me teaching her on the ground had a choice between running through a sapling or running over me. The mare chose the tree. To her it was easier to run up a stream bank and charge through a tree while going up that stream bank then to push me out of the way. They know exactly what they are doing with their body this is true in the air and on the ground. I am worried that your horse hit you. He made the decision. I can see this being a horse that really ruins you on horses, which is a shame. 

I would speak to some professional trainers in your area. I would not go out there with this horse. I think you made a start and did your best but without seeing him I could not judge if he was learning or firing warning shots. I think he is challenge. If you do work him even on the ground please wear a helmet. You shoulder is not that far from your head.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

rookie said:


> Splash, I am sorry if I hurt your feelings that was not my intention. I do think this is a dangerous situation. I am worried that in the last few days he has gone from rearing to rearing and striking and making contact. Horses know their body and they know their limits. They can decide to hit you or not hit you. I have a mare that when scared in a river bed with me teaching her on the ground had a choice between running through a sapling or running over me. The mare chose the tree. To her it was easier to run up a stream bank and charge through a tree while going up that stream bank then to push me out of the way. They know exactly what they are doing with their body this is true in the air and on the ground. I am worried that your horse hit you. He made the decision. I can see this being a horse that really ruins you on horses, which is a shame.
> 
> I would speak to some professional trainers in your area. I would not go out there with this horse. I think you made a start and did your best but without seeing him I could not judge if he was learning or firing warning shots. I think he is challenge. If you do work him even on the ground please wear a helmet. You shoulder is not that far from your head.



He is choosing to hit me. I can tell by the look on his face when he rears he means to hurt me. You know the look & the way that stallions do when they are fighting each other? this is excatly how he looks & comes after me. His ears are back he bites at me rears up & walks forward toward me even if I back up he keeps coming once he lands back down he charges me.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Please just stay out of his pasture until you figure out where you are going with this.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

He has you on the run and he knows it. Please! Just leave him completely alone until you get some competent help. It is not worth you getting maimed or killed and he can do that to you. Please stay away from him.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

No worries guys. He can stand out there till his hay bale runs out. After watching a videos of horses fighting & horses rearing from pain or out of play. I can deffiently see hes rearing to fight


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## thenrie (Sep 10, 2012)

Just to say, I read every post on this thread before posting.

There is one point that has been overlooked. Only one person has even hinted at it. You indicate he was fine until he got hurt, then you sold his buddies. From what I gather he is in a pasture by himself. Horses are herd animals. Everything in their life is determined by this herd mentality. If he has no herd, he gets insecure and, in truth, suffers many of the same anxieties and stresses that people do when they are kept in solitude. Some handle it better than others. While I think it is too late for you to salvage this horse, not saying somebody else might not be able to, you might try getting a companion animal for him. You can get free older or injured horses just about anywhere. A mule or donkey, or even a goat, can be an excellent companion. Being alone can cause a horse to develop all sorts of bad nervous habits, like cribbing, weaving, and maybe even chewing on his hooves. Heck, people chew their fingernails! Some have mentioned that _you_ are his herd, but that is not true. You fit into his herd mentality, but you are not his herd. He needs a companion that is with him in the pasture. Some horses, like some people seem to be fine alone. Some do not. I'm betting he's the latter.

Secondly, people need to know themselves before they select a horse. Horses are herd animals. People are too, to some degree. We all know that in any group of people, there are those who seem to step out in front and take control, there are some who become staunch supporters, and there are those who are content to let others take charge and go along for the ride. Nothing wrong with any of those character traits, they are what they are. Horses have a pecking order they work out in a herd. There is always one who becomes the Alpha and the rest work things out until there is a ranking system, from Alpha to the runt. This system is worked out by threats, bites, kicks, and outright fights. The Alpha has to beat out other horses who want to be Alpha. When it gets down to the lower ranks, maybe just a mean look or a toss of the head with ears back will put another horse in its place. When you interact with a horse he doesn't lay aside his herd mentality. He has to figure out where you fit into the herd. If you buy a horse that naturally would be at the top of the rank system in the herd, but you are the type of person that generally takes a back seat in a crowd, in all likelihood this is not going to be a good fit. You have to be higher in the herd _in his mind_ than he is. You also need to be higher in the herd _in your mind_.

Now this is not to say that a very passive person can't learn to control an "A-type" horse, but it may not be an enjoyable relationship for either of them.

At this point, I have to agree with others who have advised you to sell the horse, or give it away (with his history you probably won't be able to sell him). If you were somewhere near me, I would take him on to try to retrain him for you, but I would not recommend you try to do it yourself. If you are determined to keep him, try getting a companion for him. Never mind the dog. He's just trying to protect you (that's the dog's mentality).


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

With the other horses he was the lowest in the heard of the 3 of them.
But, That was with 2 mares who knows how he would be with other geldings. 
when he was injured it was last summer & I didnt ride him anymore till this spring. I rode him daily from about march till april. May is when I became really busy & i didnt ride him all I did was walk him daily. He wasn't acting too bad about july the end of july he started acting up just a tad but I could control it. August I had some problems with him he was acting up but not everyday or as often. & now he acts up no matter what & has became really aggressive more I'm around him. 
I have to agree with you I don't think our personalitys Match either I wanna get out & ride & im more laid back. He is lazy & wants to be in control. My mom said we could probably afford a pony or something for him. I would love to be higher in the heard in my mind but Im way to scared of him becuase of his behavior & he knows.

I'm going to make some calls & get someone out here to help :/ 
I'm also going to look around at other horses just incase I find something better for me then I can try to figure out what to do with him. Although finding a decent horse in my area is not easy people are dumb when it comes to horses here they think that they are worth gold because its a horse. Most of them don't even know what color of horse they have & they say its the best horse Ever & its broke to ride & usually its a 2 year old thats only been sat on by a kid :/ The lowest prices I have found so far are $500 & I click on the picture & it says Great gentle horse broke to ride anyone can ride then wayyy down there it says hes lame or blind like they want to tell you the truth but hope you wont read that part. 


I really don't think anyone around me will even want to take him on Well at least not for a big chunk of cash
On top of his behavior he has thin feet & can't be shod! So I doubt any one would want him for themselves.

Another option I have been considering is just leaving him alone & let him be a pasture ornament & get a job on the side of doing my college & putting all my money into paying someone to take him to their place & train him. Then I have to bear with the fact I have a horse I can't even ride when riding is something I have always enjoyed. Although I haven't enjoyed riding him for a very long time. I have to admit I haven't Went out & had fun riding a horse for a very very long time not even with him when he was doing his best. I just always felt like I was training not having fun


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

I wish you luck with everything, I know how it is to be a full time college student and working at the same time. For a while I didn't get to ride my horses much all I could do it take a brush to the pasture and give them some attention for a bit. This is my personal opinion as someone who trains young horses and gives lessons, sometimes you have to let go. If you are willing to invest a few thousand bucks in a horse you can't even touch cause he knows your scared of him then thats your choice or you could sell him for a few hundred bucks and put that towards a broke older horse. I know you love him but think of the money instead that your going to spend let's say $500 for a trainer, another few hundred for lessons for you, $20 round bales add up though ( cheap hay by the way lucky! hope he doesn't run out hay is expensive here in Oklahoma) anyways the there is grain costs which are lets say $10 a bag, then you have vet costs for him injuring his foot cause he got so bored he made himself lame or he gets sick or whatever you never know and that easily can amount to several hundred bucks , $30 for hoof trimming every 2 months if a farrier can even touch him. Possible medical liability for yourself or any one who tries to touch him, hope you have no close neighbors injury costs or law suits and possible health risks can be quite costly. I have a herniated disk in my neck health costs aren't cheap. If you add that up you can buy yourself a pretty nice horse don't you think. Think of it like an investment few hundred earned (soon will have a nice friendly horse) or thousands of dollars In a money pit. It's hard selling a horse you've had for years I sold all my horses but 2 when I was in college but just think once you get that new horse that you can play with when you want to, you will bond and the loss of your old horse won't be so bad. In my opinion with your current poor busy college student life style selling the horse is the adult thing to do and is best for you and the horse in the long run. I hope I'm coming off as someone giving advice I'm not trying to attack you or anything. I truly wish the best for you and your horse and good luck with school.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EquineBovine (Sep 6, 2012)

Wow this is sounding really dangerous. I can understand why you'd be confused but he needs friking telling. Im now thinking you should def get rid of him! Teeth baring is stupid! Ive never had a nag do that. Scary ( Good luck with whatever you do.


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## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

*horse problem*

hiya i hope you well and i hope this will help you ok.
i think he might be upset about being alone the loss of your other horses and your self as you have been buzy.
ok ill get to the wire the best thing for you and your boyfrend would be strip him back to basics and do you have any long lines lunge lines.
and have you eather a lunge caverson or a bridle with a nose band also what bit do you use.
ok lets say you use a snaffle for example i will explain this as i am looking at my own in my minds eye in an open area.
can you also perchase a lunge wip.
thats only used to inforce the circle between you and him 20 meters.
right use the lunge line we will say we will send him in a clockwise direction.
pass the lunge line through the snaffle ring the one you can see then pass it over his poll head and atach it to the other ring the one you cant see.
that will work a bit like a gag as he plays up he plays up on his own resistance he might take off but keep him in a circle he may charge at you inforce this with the wip your boyfrend may have to help you on that.
then your horse can buck all he wants but keep sending him foward when he trys to rear.
let him use all his pent up energy and let him tire so he becomes easy to handle and ask him to walk and trot and you give the verble comands to what you want.
and when he has done well and behaved well give him a reward and you set your ground rules.
and all you have to rember he has his own personalaty and no horse is the same.
i wish you all the best and please and keep me in the loop on how he is going ok i know its hard but give things a try ok.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

I agree that he needs to be started over and brought back to the basics lunging, LOTS or respect work etc. But in this situation and unless her boyfriend is pretty familiar with horses I worried that his bad behavior will continue be reinforced and someone could get hurt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

I'm pretty sure that If I cannot get help with him. From Someone that's done this before then I'm selling him. Even if I don't get another horse till spring.At the point he is now he's just going to end up sitting out there all winter & using up money eating hay.Money that could be going into a horse I can ride. Even when I hae gotten busy & not even able to touch it for awhile.I'm so sore today I can't hardly move my back neck shoulders & arms are all hurting me so bad & its really not worth it. Even "if" I did get him back to his normal self I would say at any point I get busy again hes going to be like this all over again. My sisters pony wasn't ridden in 2 years when we sold her. I hopped on her for the first time in 2 years to show the people she was broke & she rode like a dream. She would have been the perfect horse for me we got along great :/ but she was way to small & old for what I want to do. I wish she would have been a few years younger & a few hands taller lol. I may ask my farrier & see if he has any good horses he would trade for my horse & some money to make up the difference. I'd say he has one for sell hes offered to sell me horses before . If I have to I can sell my horse & my saddle to add up more money. If its a good horse I wont need a saddle anyways I can ride with my bareback pad till I save up money for a saddle. Selling him keeps looking like a better option more & more everytime I think about it.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

I think that is an excellent idea.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thenrie (Sep 10, 2012)

You know, I just thought of something. After all the descriptions you have given, I keep visualizing him as a stallion. He is a gelding, right? Occasionally the gelding procedure is incomplete and a testicle or part of one remains. I have heard of this happening, but never actually seen it. I such cases the horse continues to have the stallion hormones, even though he may be sterile. Anyway, your horse sure sounds like a heated up stallion. He's the right age for that to be happening. Maybe have a vet take a look and make sure he's really a gelding! Long shot, very long shot, but then I have a hard time reconciling the change in his behavior with other horses I've known.

I still think a lot of his problem is being alone in the pasture. Get him a pet goat!


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I think that she said that her vet did the gelding. I was also going to ask her if he was still a stallion as well, but she answered it somewhere back in this thread. I would doubt that any halfway trained vet is going to screw up a gelding surgery. It is a pretty straightforward procedure.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

This is just not that complicated. It happens over and over and over. This horse finally got fat and is feeling good. His true disposition is coming out. He was too thin and malnourished before to be much of a challenge. He is testing his boundaries. He does not sound like he is staggy. He has only gotten pretty dominant and only has done so with the person that has 'backed off' at the wrong time. 

Horses don't need friends or other horses to shape their level of respect for their handlers. Stallions and real dominant horses manner just like any other horse. They just need a more confident handler. They become aggressive much more quickly if a handler backs away at the wrong time. Timid people get along best with less dominant horses and those horses should be older and very well-trained / mannered. 

Splashed Overo has pecked and slapped at this horse when he needed more serious discipline. Then, when it angered him, she backed off when she should have pushed forward until he backed off. One or two well-timed hard jerks on the lead-rope while advancing toward him and making him back up and we would be hearing an entirely different story.

Like every other thing a horse learns, it is all 'pressure and release' and timing is everything. The instant a handler takes a step backwards or quits asking a horse to make some move (like backing up), the pressure has been taken off at the wrong time. The horse won that round and will be more emboldened. If a handler backs off 2 or 3 more times, the horse is liable to lay his ears back and make a dive at that person, rear up and strike them or whirl around and kick at them. Every wrong move or wrong timing just makes a horse more bold and more aggressive.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Cherie, I think that you are right about what she did wrong. What do you suggest she does now? We sure don't want her getting killed.


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## DimSum (Mar 28, 2012)

Celeste said:


> Cherie, I think that you are right about what she did wrong. What do you suggest she does now? We sure don't want her getting killed.



See now I've read this whole thing and that is my concern as well. I am of the mind that she should not attempt anymore anything at this point without a pro's help.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

Sorry guys I have been busy with my classes. I haven't had enough time to post. 
I started feeding him myself instead of the round bale so that he has to have my attention daily. My parents told me I had to start doing that. 
I feed him before I get on to do my class work. 
I started taking my whip with me everytime. when I was feeding him he got rude with me biting at me & laying his ears back. I smacked him with the whip & he came at me & instead of backing off I stood my ground & smacked him one more good time & he got worse & I smacked him again.Then he went and stood at the other end of the field till I was done putting the hay out. He hasn't done it anymore But I have Yet to get him out. I just feed him 2 times a day & that's it. I put him up for sale so if I find some one willing to take him. Also they just opened a new store right near my house that's hiring so Maybe they will give me a job there since its close to home I wont be wasting all my money driving to & from work 
(my house is out in the middle of no where lol) If I don't sell him I'll use my money to pay a trainer.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

thenrie said:


> You know, I just thought of something. After all the descriptions you have given, I keep visualizing him as a stallion. He is a gelding, right? Occasionally the gelding procedure is incomplete and a testicle or part of one remains. I have heard of this happening, but never actually seen it. I such cases the horse continues to have the stallion hormones, even though he may be sterile. Anyway, your horse sure sounds like a heated up stallion. He's the right age for that to be happening. Maybe have a vet take a look and make sure he's really a gelding! Long shot, very long shot, but then I have a hard time reconciling the change in his behavior with other horses I've known.
> 
> I still think a lot of his problem is being alone in the pasture. Get him a pet goat!



He was properly gelded but he had to be gelded later than normal because he didn't drop when he should have.


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

I don’t think you necessarily have to sell the horse, if you are willing to change what you are doing. The first thing you should realise is that the horse doesn’t see the world the way you do, he isn’t going to have some sort of love for you that compares with anything a human can feel, in fact all the patting and the cuddles and the nice talk can be down right irritating to a horse, they just don’t have the neuro-physiology to support anything remotely like human feelings or emotions, horses see the world, and everything in it as, well, horses. You, however, do have the neurological complexity to try to think like a horse does. 
Horses are supremely social animals, indeed they have had to be to survive through thousands of years of evolution, in an often hostile environment; and part of that herding instinct, the horses sociality, is that their social structure is very hierarchical; they sort out real quick who is the boss, who is second in charge, and who is the bottom of the barrel and they will often challenge each other and fight off challenges; in the case of stallions in the wild possibly to the point of killing one another. In his head he is now “the man”, or “the stallion” perhaps, (that is to say, boss of the herd), and whenever you ask him to do anything it is a challenge to his authority; and every time you try but don’t reassert your authority you are essentially giving hem a green light to get worse the next time round. His reactions are classical horse reactions to a challenge to his authority. You are saying that you try to reassert your authority and it just makes it worse it is for exactly the reasons Cherie is saying; the horse knows that you are not going to go far enough, but obviously he is willing to go that far. 
I cant remember where I heard it, but I think it was Monty Roberts who said it, that if a horse tries to bite or kick you you need to consider it as a deceleration of war; your reaction has to be such that that horse thinks death is immanent. But you need to feel your reaction, you have to feel it well up inside yourself, because if its fake the horse will smell it a mile off and he will put it over you again; that is not to say you need to beat him, one or two, maybe three, well aimed and good hard wallops with a good lead rope will be enough (thats the best way for us to bite or kick like a horse) but carry it through and drive him clear back across the yard in terror of you literally eating him alive.
I agree with Cherie about what she said about time too, pretty much everything she said actually, its not a matter of how much time you spend with him but a matter of the quality of the time. For example I'm training about 6 horses at the moment at various stages, and trying to do a Ph.D. I only have about 2 or 3 months a year to spend with the horses. But I make sure that in the month that Im working on them I send them out to pasture ahead of where they were when I brought them in; if its done right the break actually does them good and they will be better behaved when you bring them in again than when you last let them out. The real problem though is if you do spend a lot of time with him and he bullies you every time then thats spending bad time with him and it will just make him worse. Better to leave him till you can get someone to help you.


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

Oh yeah, and, though it will sound harsh, as far as I'm concerned any dog that makes the mortal mistake of chasing a horse deserves to be shot. Get rid of the mut.


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

Is he by himself? A horse is a herd animal and needs a companion.

Also sounds like he needs round pen work. He needs to learn your the boss again. Round penning helps in that catagory. he will see you has boss mare, so to speak. I would start there. 
Also when he goes to kick you pretend like your going to kick him instead, like another horse would react and yell at him and go at him like your going to kick his butt instead. He needs to learn your the boss and you have had enough of his childhood games. chase him around put him to work. I think he will change his mind quickly.
check out some youtube videos they may also help


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

Spotted said:


> Is he by himself? A horse is a herd animal and needs a companion.
> 
> Also sounds like he needs round pen work. He needs to learn your the boss again. Round penning helps in that catagory. he will see you has boss mare, so to speak. I would start there.
> Also when he goes to kick you pretend like your going to kick him instead, like another horse would react and yell at him and go at him like your going to kick his butt instead. He needs to learn your the boss and you have had enough of his childhood games. chase him around put him to work. I think he will change his mind quickly.
> check out some youtube videos they may also help



You Can't Lunge him in anyway besides staying out side his field.
He gets too dangerous. I did this not too long ago its in the thread. I had to stay out side the fence just to get him to move around or he will have it out for you. This is why when I fed him the other day & he came at me & i gave him three good licks with the whip I stood outside the fence. He charges at you.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

AnrewPL said:


> Oh yeah, and, though it will sound harsh, as far as I'm concerned any dog that makes the mortal mistake of chasing a horse deserves to be shot. Get rid of the mut.


She hasn't chased him for a good while now. We are still trying to rehome her. 
Can't find anyone though. My parents are looking around for a cheap shock collar for her so the next time she will be shocked. Last time she chased my horse she had him so wound up he almost flipped himself over a rock.
God must have been there for us that day because he caught him self. 
His neck could have been broken. She's no longer allowed loose un supervised.


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## couleehills (Sep 22, 2012)

AnrewPL is 100% right.. get ride of the dog.. it may not chase when your around but when your gone I bet you it's fun time for that dog. or the horses..you may cme home to a real mess one day..
Also agree with the horse advice.. my grandfather was an old horseman for the days when your horse WORKED.. now days even ranch horses are 1/2 pets 
he always told me if your horse steps out of line(bites,kickes. bucks anything) you have 10secs. to let him have it.. slap kick BEAT him with you hands,lead rope reins, you can't hurt him really belive me. But after 10secs stop and act like nothings wrong. Just like his Mama did.He'll think MAN I'LL NEVER DO THAT AGIAN and belive me he will not.. but you have to it everytime.. you have to be his boss 100%. 
I did thid once with miniture stallion in a show ring, most would say I should of been kicked out, but he went on to win the class.. no little 31" stud is going to bite my finger. He never bite again.. just like a kid in the mall he now knows Mom takes no crap.
Sounds to me like this horse in her baby , he respect others because they let him have it.. she lets him have it alittle then cuddles him.. so he can be a bad boy she gets after him alittle and then loves him up.. the attetion is worth the little hits.. sounds like he's got a plan.


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## couleehills (Sep 22, 2012)

Oh PS:
If this horse is not in a pasture if at all possible get him out there..I mean a pasture with grass room to move.
How would you lke to be in a 12/12 room all day and only let out for a 10-15 min walk all day, I'd be a brat too.. chew my nails ect if I were him. Horses are grazing animals they have to move all the time. Penning up is what cases most habits like eating wood, weaving, rearing when lead out ect.
I do not put my horses in a stall unless it is must for med reasons..


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## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

This might be a wild guess but regarding the hoof chewing I would think he might be low on some sort of mineral / vitamin lacking in his diet...


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

I've already provided my input for the training portion, but as for hoof chewing - I've always known it to be a symptom of an allergic reaction. My TB mare, after getting her shots started aggressively chewing her own hooves - luckily we noticed before the vet left, some antihistamines fixed that in minutes. There could be something in his field he's mildly allergic to that causes him to have itchy hooves. That's just my experience IDK if it applies here.
It could also just be his version of a boredom vice, like some horses wood chew, his is even more self destructive. Like a child looking for stimulus, sometimes the only stimulus that really helps is pain.
I would check his paddock to make sure there's no obvious allergen, perhaps it was triggered by a tiny amount of mold or must in the round bale? Those are always getting issues like that.

Good luck Overo, this is a tough one. If spending more time with him doesn't fix the hoof chewing I'd consider getting a vet out.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

Hes in a hudge feild & its got grass. Hes never penned up he can move around as much as he wants/ needs. He Even get put up he has a shed that he goes in when he chooses. 

@EmilyJoy What mineral/vitamin do you think it could be ?
Hes got hay,grass & a mineral block Plus he sometimes gets Grain if needed.
The Vet didn't think it was anything else beside's boredom. 


My parents are taking the dog to a Flea market this weekend to try to get someone to "Adopt" her.

I'm also Going to use my birthday money to buy a jolly ball may give him something to do. Hes not the type to crib I havent seen any chewing on the trees or his shed. 
& Both my parents have been talking about his attitude quite a bit lately.
They both agreed that if he stays hes GOT to have a buddy a goat mini horse something even if they have to spend a little extra on a old pony or something. I could get a free donkey but he **HATES** donkeys. 
He would probably kill himself trying to hide from it.


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## EquineBovine (Sep 6, 2012)

I'd say he'd have to get a grip. Most horses don't like donkeys but it would give him something to think about, maybe calm him down in the long run and also, if he is running from it, he is getting a work out. I've had a donkey before and my old TB mare HATED him, but after about a week they tolerated each other and I even caught them grooming each other! It's worth a shot IMO.
On another note, GRASS could be the problem. I don't know what sort of grass he is on but if my girl gets even a whiff of rye she is mental. Provide magnesium in his water/food, get a salt lick out there and I think a paddock mate, no matter what it is. would be good. Better a donkey than a sheep or something he could kill. Donkeys are hardy little things  Just make sure you can COPE that is all!


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

That's fantastic you'll be getting him a companion! That will help a great deal.
Yes!! Magnesium and B1 vitamins are great for calming horses, Smartpak has a number of supplements that help with that. I also got a Magnesium based supplement for my crazy mare 

Overo, does he still chew his hooves now that you've changed his hay? I'm really thinking it could be an allergy, you should just ask your vet about it if he's still doing it.


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## EquineBovine (Sep 6, 2012)

If the donkey is anything like my one was, it will put him in his place no problem. But you still have to make sure you're not at the bottom of the herd order! I would be inclined to cut down his grass intake just because my horse is prone to grass staggers and is a prat on grass. Depends on what you can do. )


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## Chief101 (Sep 23, 2012)

I'd give him to a trainer.


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## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

I dunno maybe some lack of zinc???? I'd email an equine nutritionist, and present your problem to them.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

I'm going to share a story with you about my horse, which may help you with making decisions with your own. See that beautiful horse over in my display picture? Four years ago (almost five now), he was a very different horse. I was tweleve years old and bought a seven year old ex-race horse, who was under weight and very crazy. 

When I bought him, he too started out well behaved and I genuinely loved him. This went on for almost six months, I even taught him how to jump. It wasn't until he had gained the weight that he needed, that he started misbehaving. He began rearing, bucking, bolting, striking at me and even began to lunge at me. I continued to make excuses for him, for wuite awhile - one day he reared over ontop of me. I mentioned these training issues quite a lot on the forum and got the same feedback you did. Sell him, or get a trainer. I shrugged it off, I was twelve, now almost thirteen. I knew everything about horses. Right? Wrong. 

It wasn't until I was standing in a tack shop one day talking to the owner, that someone in 'real life' suggested to get help with him or sell him. She come out and worked with him, that day - we spent two hours working with him on the lunge and in the saddle. And I thought, hey, she's solved it. But, she had three of her own horses who needed work and didn't have time to work with him daily. So, she gave me the names of some trainers and said to get one of them to work with him. I, having watched her deal with his incredibly dangerous issues for two hours thought that I could handle it by myself. 

Once again, I was wrong. Chinga knew that I didn't have the confidence or ability to work with him. So, after several months I got in contact with a trainer (who is now my current coach) and she worked with him and I daily for wuite a while. Still, after that it was only weekly. I did a lot of it on my own, it was very, very hard. And I know for a fact that I couldn't have done it without a trainer, even when I was working with him by myself - I had to call and update her every might. Without her, my horse and I could have been badly hurt, or even worse, killed. He was unpredictable and unsafe, he was also allowed to be. 

After months and months of working with a trainer, he became safe to ride again and a much happier horse. Now, several years later - he is the best horse I could have ever asked for and has the sweetest, most adorable attitude that I've ever seen in a horse. My point is though, when people on the internet are telling you to get help - it should be screaming alarm bells in your head. We have so many kids come through this forum, begging for help about their 'crazy horses', yet don't seem to take any advice. Because they are right. I know I wasnone of those kids for ages, ask anyone on here. But, don't make the same mistake I did - don't wait, act now and get a trainer, like you have said you are. And, as the Notebook said - it is really hard and you are going to have to work with it everynday. But, if you are willing, with an experienced person, you will learn more than you could ever dream of learning from a horse. 

Keep us all updated on how it goes,
That girl who use to have 'that crazy, insane horse', who is now known as 'Maddie, who owns Chinga - the really cool event horse'.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Man o' War would chew on his hooves when he knew other horses were going to race and he couldn't. The handlers equated it with nervous nail-biters.


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## Countrygal892000 (Apr 17, 2009)

I have so many things that I want to add I have no idea where to start...
1. A horse is only as good as its owner
Get your confidence up. This horse is just walking all over you because you get nervous or scared and he takes advantage of you. Before you even think about getting back on your horse you need to do extensive ground work with him. Go to Borders or Amazon or any larger bookstore or book website and buy some natural horsemanship books. Clinton Anderson has some amazing book for under $30 that teach you all of the ground work right from the start. If you say that you have already done all the ground work I call BS. No horse is EVER finished being taught ground work or finished being taught things in general. 
2. Horses and there pasts 
Just like humans a horses past CAN affect them. It is YOUR job to help him overcome it. If you are just free feeding him then change him to a schedule. I believe you stated that he was malnourished when you bought/rescued him so food is a major thing in his life. Work him around his food in the field. DO NOT let him eat while you are working him. Make him understand that if he does what you ask (not what you force) that he gets a reward. But since he has a food issue don't use food as a reward. Use attention. 
3. Rewards
Anytime he gives to pressure or does what you ask IMMEDIATELY release the pressure and make sure that your body language and breathing is calm. The calmer and more relaxed you are the better he will be. 
4. Start small
Dont expect him to change overnight. If he has that many bad habits than work on one area at a time. Dont expect him to do it perfectly. Work up to it. If you are asking him to bend his neck to his side and give from the pressure anytime he does it a tiny bit release the pressure and rub him with the rope. The next time see if he will bend a half an inch further. Tiny baby steps is key. Also.... REPITITION REPITITION REPITITION!
5. Time
Try and dedicate at least 5-6 days a week you work with him. Walking him and grooming him is not enough. If you are walking him down the driving and that is all you can do for the day incoorporate an excercise with him. 
Example: If you are walking and he gets too close stop and wiggle your lead rope and make him back up. Every time he gets to close while on your walk do this. So not only are you spending time with him but you are also extablishing ground rules about your personal space and teaching him a mannerism. I understand that going to college takes up a lot of your time but I also did online college and I found the time to make sure I was out with my horse working with her on something everyday. Sunday was funday. We used that day give her a bath or braid her mane... That was a "just hanging out together" kinda day. I now work 12 hour days and STILL find time between having to get up at five getting home at 7 30 cooking dinner washing dishes doing laundry cleaning house and trying to get sleep. Horses need a lot of time and devotion! Im sure all he is asking for is for you to try to be with him.
6. Persistence
EVERY SINGLE TIME HE DOES SOMETHING DURING AN EXERCISE THAT IS WRONG CORRECT HIM IMMEDIATELY! They are like children if they get away with it once, whether they have been corrected a thousand times before, they will try to do it again. 

I really hopes this helps! If you have any specific questions you can message me and I will try to answer them the best I can. I wish you and your horse the best of luck and keep everyone updated!


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

PunksTank said:


> That's fantastic you'll be getting him a companion! That will help a great deal.
> Yes!! Magnesium and B1 vitamins are great for calming horses, Smartpak has a number of supplements that help with that. I also got a Magnesium based supplement for my crazy mare
> 
> Overo, does he still chew his hooves now that you've changed his hay? I'm really thinking it could be an allergy, you should just ask your vet about it if he's still doing it.



I haven't saw him doing it & I haven't seen anymore signs of him doing it. 
after I left boots on for about 2 days he quit. But I also Quit putting the whole round bale in there I still buy the same Hay but I Get enough to feed him off the bale & spread it out across the feild 2 times a day. 

He has became more nervous lately He's starting to become very jumpy of all noises & yesterday my dog barked (not the big one that chases him) & he started spinning around in circles in his feild. He looked like he was in a reining competition the way he kept spinning. Im starting to wonder If there may be something outside at night bothering him Because we don't leave any dogs out at night or dogs out when we leave. I'm thinking about borrowing my step dads hunting camera & putting it up to see whats out there. We do have coyotes & bobcats around here pretty bad. 


Also I forgot to mention something that happened back in the summer 
I don't know how I forgot this but I did. & I just remembered that right after is when I started having problems with him. 


I will write it all in a new post


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

It may be something bothering him,but it may simply be his own lack of confidence. He is alone, unable to sleep or rest completely because he's dependent on himself to do every job the other herd members would do. I'll bet he's exhausted and wound up pretty tight. He's now in the mentality that he needs to be completely responsible for his own survival, and will be far more flighty and aggressive. I already told you in PM what I'd do, many others have given other ideas too. 
I'm glad to hear he isn't chewing his hooves anymore, it may have been a minor allergy, sometimes round bales get a little musty, which may have made his hooves itchy. 
I will bet you a lot that getting him a companion, spending more time with him, reasserting your authority and making your time with him pleasurable rather than violent will turn this horse around back to how he was. 
I'm happy to hear you're thinking about ideas, I can't wait to hear something's happened.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

Ok there was this girl I went to high school with that was a bully to me all through school. She started Living with her friend up the road from me. We have 30-40 acres of land & our property connects up into this big housing devolopment people there can walk in the our woods & walk to my house & to where I keep my horse. When she started living with her friend she knew where my house is & shes always wanted to bully me. Shes been in lots of trouble with the cops & been locked up many times. She got on facebook & started bullying my friend & had her upset. I told my friend to Ignore her that she had nothing else better to do. Well she decided since she was staying up the road from my house I was a easy target she said she was going to kill me & everything. she Knew I had a horse also she made comments about how ugly he was . She threatened me saying she would come to my house & beat me up. When I wouldn't give in & meet her somewhere she said " I will hurt you some how even if its not by beating you."The next few days my horse started acting very odd when I went to leave him & when I went around him.
He started biting a lot & rearing some around this time.

After she Told me "I will hurt you some how even if its not by beating you" we went out of town. I had my boyfriend checking my horse 2 times a day before he went to work & after. My boy friend Said he noticed he was acting strange. The dogs were penned up so they couldn't have bothered him. My horse had chipped feet & had a few scraps on his legs welps on his body.
We couldn't figure out what happened to him. 
Then he was acting even stranger when we would get into the car to go to town he would throw a fit & when we came home he was hiding or he was acting if he had been spooked. (Once again Dogs are Always Kept penned or tied when we leave the house.) Then not too long after we had came back About a few weeks later almost a month to be exact I was outside My horse made the most awful noise ever he would look at me & look at the woods. 
I heard someone laugh I stated looking around & saw 2 guys & 2 girls. 
The guy had a gun in his hand with it pointed at my horses face & I screamed at them & they took off. My parents came running I told them. My step dad went & got a gun & took off after them & 2 of the 4 stopped on the hillside before taking off. he saw one of them & was pretty sure it was her & so was I when I saw them too. We called the police The officer said he was pretty sure it was her too after all the stuff I told him she said on the computer.
He was supposed to go to where she was staying & talk to her.
We never heard anything about it again. Keep in mind that If you walk from those houses on the way down the mountain you can see my house my horse & my cars. We are sourronded by hillside so you can see when we are home & when we aren't. You can also tell when we come up the drive way to come home. At this time I kept all my horse stuff outside My whip my lead,halters, saddle everything in the building beside where I keep my horse. 
My boyfriend said he noticed my whip,halter & lead on the ground when I was gone. He just thought I had left it there & I had Not. I know my boy friend wouldn't do anything to hurt my horse so that is out of the question. He paid for the horse & he buys him stuff all the time when he gets extra money. We all figure that "Someone" had been bothering my horse. This girl knows everything about my house we used to be best friends till I found out she how she was. She knew when my bf had to work & she knew I was out of town bc Stupid me posted it on FB not thinking. the girl that she stays with is just like her they both like to cause problems & start stuff. I wouldn't put anything past either of them. They drove to my friends house & went in on her & her baby with a baseball bat if this tells you anything. Im not saying this could be my horses problem for sure but every time my family & boy friend talks about what happened & my horses behavior then & now we piece more of it together & it makes more & more sense. 

Who knows what she could had been doing to my horse I was gone for 2 weeks & no one was here most of the day. after that I was at basketball practice for 4 hours everyday & days I wasn't at practice I was at games.
Coaching games & watching the other games to get an idea of our competition. & even after I caught them here with the gun & i Blocked her.
She had other people contacting me telling me things. Our puppy went missing around the same time & she had people tell me she had it & if we wanted it back for me to come meet her & beat her up. They even sent me pictures of a puppy that was the same color but wasn't ours. my step dad put up fliers of our dog. her & her friend ripped them all down (People called & told us who they saw ripping them down. i went & put 10 up on every spot that she tore one off. she called my house saying Your dog has been found come get it now. We never found our puppy either. 

The reason this came up is because my mom & I was talking & she reminded me how my horse was acting around the time this had happened & compared it to how hes currently acting. This Girl is the same height & size as me & has the same hair color also. Before all this was when I was able to control my horse. Around the same time all the "events" with this girl is when My horse slowly started changing. 


I know that some of you say his past wouldn't affect him but this wasn't too long ago Could this have effected him? I'm not saying 100% that this is my horses problem but
Its just an idea of everything that had happened during his behavior change


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

She sounds like a psycho. I think you said your stepfather had a camera for hunting that you could set up for surveillance? If so set it up somewhere where it can’t be seen, but can monitor everything that goes on with the horse and see of the girl is doing anything to it. You will also have evidence for the cops too.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

AnrewPL said:


> She sounds like a psycho. I think you said your stepfather had a camera for hunting that you could set up for surveillance? If so set it up somewhere where it can’t be seen, but can monitor everything that goes on with the horse and see of the girl is doing anything to it. You will also have evidence for the cops too.


Yea . I Haven't had anymore problems with this girl since the last message she had her friend send me not too long ago saying "We Will Catch You Out Bi***" I don't know if shes still staying there currently or not. As Of now she has no Internet Ties to me at all as I have blocked Everyone she is friends with or every one that even likes her. And I have been home everyday. I did go through a peroid where I was scared to leave my horse alone but I was scared to be home alone. Which made me a nervous wreck everytime I left or went outside to work with my horse. Which that could have caused problems with my horse me being like that around him


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

A horse's past absolutely DOES effect them! But it shouldn't be allowed to cripple them. Horses will forever remember what things caused any extreme emotion positive or negative. If he got chased by a dog, dog barks are going to cause him fear until he is some how shown that dogs aren't bad anymore. Until then, all dogs are out to get him in his mind. Perhaps if this girl has hurt him he may see some correlation to you. Knowing this you knw why he's upset. But it doesn't fix it. He still needs to be shown that people are not only OK to be around, but are also in charge. But you are going to need to approach this in a different way, clearly violence is only going to re-affirm his belief that people are scary, if he feels he can't get away he'll fight. You are now a predator in his mind, not a herd leader. You need to change this. Before you teach him to respect space by pushing him away, you need to regain his trust.
Honestly how do you feel about your abilities to follow any of the advice given? can you do it? If not get a trainer or rehome this horse. He's terrified because he's been threatened a number of times and is alone to defend himself. This horse is not just upset, he is horrified, he can't even exist comfortably on his own. He really needs help. Please do something for him, anything, the longer he stays like that, alone and afraid, the worse he's going to get.

I'm not trying to sound fatalist, but this poor horse really has been terrorized and has withdrawn inside himself, this needs to be fixed. It doesn't matter what caused it - knowing there's a cause helps, but it doesn't fix the problem.

Good luck keep us posted on what changes you make and how they work.


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

That’s true. They will pick up any nervousness in you. But really, you shouldn’t have to be enduring that kind of harassment from anyone. If it keeps up I would strongly suggest getting help, talk with counsellors at school etc, not because there’s anything wrong with you, but rather, because they are the kind of people who are likely to know best the kind of resources that are around to deal with this kind of situation. Also the police too if necessary. You should not have to tolerate that kind of rubbish.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

AnrewPL said:


> That’s true. They will pick up any nervousness in you. But really, you shouldn’t have to be enduring that kind of harassment from anyone. If it keeps up I would strongly suggest getting help, talk with counsellors at school etc, not because there’s anything wrong with you, but rather, because they are the kind of people who are likely to know best the kind of resources that are around to deal with this kind of situation. Also the police too if necessary. You should not have to tolerate that kind of rubbish.


I'm not in school with her any more Im already in college but I did go to school with her from 7-12th grade & in 8th grade we stopped being friends because she beat my head off the heaters in the locker room because she decided she Needed to get into a fight. Which she got suspended every single year several times for fighting till she finally graduated which by the law she should have been expelled & not allowed back. Somehow the rules never applied to her. seems as if she still gets away with everything. 

I don't know How I never really put it together though Its like it just clicked & i was like hmm maybe this is his problem. 

So basically If this is his problem hes going to have to be treated like an abuse case & have a expearinced person work with him all over again. Because he's doing this out of fear of people. 

Either Way getting a trainer Looks like its a Must. I applied for a job so If I get it I will be calling My farrier first since I know him really well & offering to pay him to work with him. Even if it means Sending him away somewhere for awhile to get him doing better. Or selling him If that doesn't work out


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## EquineBovine (Sep 6, 2012)

That's just not on. Get your camera up and running! Poor horse (


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

PunksTank said:


> A horse's past absolutely DOES effect them! But it shouldn't be allowed to cripple them. Horses will forever remember what things caused any extreme emotion positive or negative. If he got chased by a dog, dog barks are going to cause him fear until he is some how shown that dogs aren't bad anymore. Until then, all dogs are out to get him in his mind. Perhaps if this girl has hurt him he may see some correlation to you. Knowing this you knw why he's upset. But it doesn't fix it. He still needs to be shown that people are not only OK to be around, but are also in charge. But you are going to need to approach this in a different way, clearly violence is only going to re-affirm his belief that people are scary, if he feels he can't get away he'll fight. You are now a predator in his mind, not a herd leader. You need to change this. Before you teach him to respect space by pushing him away, you need to regain his trust.
> Honestly how do you feel about your abilities to follow any of the advice given? can you do it? If not get a trainer or rehome this horse. He's terrified because he's been threatened a number of times and is alone to defend himself. This horse is not just upset, he is horrified, he can't even exist comfortably on his own. He really needs help. Please do something for him, anything, the longer he stays like that, alone and afraid, the worse he's going to get.
> 
> I'm not trying to sound fatalist, but this poor horse really has been terrorized and has withdrawn inside himself, this needs to be fixed. It doesn't matter what caused it - knowing there's a cause helps, but it doesn't fix the problem.
> ...



Yes I am willing listen & to do what ever to help him even If i have to give him away. It doesn't matter What I just don't want him like this anymore. 
I wish I would have thought about this more But it just never pieced it all together for me to realize what all had happened & how it effected BOTH of us. It just didn't effect him it effected me also. I have no Idea Why I never thought that could be his problem. Maybe because I just put it away & didn't want to think of any of it. If I hadn't been out side that day my horse would have been dead. He knew he was in danger or he wouldn't have made the noise he made to get my attention & he wouldn't have kept looking at me & looking at them. I NEVER have heard him make that noise in all the time I had him EVER. I knew Something was wrong as soon as I heard it. And it Doesn't matter if they didn't plan on shooting him they had a gun pointed at him & all the evidence Points that "someone" was bothering my horse. I went through weeks after I saw that Of hardly any sleep & being scared to death to leave him alone but scared for my saftey staying at home. I finally just Said I won't think about it or talk about it anymore & try to forget. Then... My mom brought it back up & it was like What the heck have I been thinking all this time.


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

Yeah, I remember you mentioned you are in UNI now, but even universities/colleges should have good counselling services, again, not because you are at fault, but because they will probably have a better idea about how to get the psycho off your back. As for the horse, if she is indeed mistreating him, that has to stop first obviously. After that, I think you are right, find someone who can help you with him. Ultimately, it is you who will have to deal with him, assuming you decide not to sell him, so if you send him to someone for some work, when he gets back you are still going to need to be the one in charge. It can seem hard at first, but once you have the knowledge, it is reasonably undaunting to deal with horses that have been abused. I’ve dealt with a couple and was given one once, he was orphaned and hand reared in someone’s back yard. When he miss-behaved as a baby it was cute, when he was nearly two it stopped being cute pretty dammed fast and he was flogged within an inch of his life for something he did wrong. After that he learned to attack people. But the way to fix it is like I said originally, you have to think like a horse and see the world the way he does, and give him cues and rewards he understands. Good luck with it all, and again, get that psycho dealt with first, no one deserves that kind of treatment.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

I just wish I could get help right now & figure this all out & get him fixed. Its bothering me seeing him sit out there. I had planned to the veterans day parade & Christmas parade this year like I did last year. I would probably give him away if I knew someone I could trust would take him. But I already know how everyone is with horses around here. they are passed around like crazy & they usually only end up worse. I hate living in Wv **Most** of the people that ride horses do it to look like they have money or to wins shows. The respectable people are all too busy or just keep to themselves & their horses or I haven't met them to know if they are decent people. 80% of the horse people I have met Show & train gaited horses and are snobs to anyone that tries to ask questions to get help. I went to school with a lot of girls that ride horses & parents have had horses for years. I try to talk to them & get help & i just get Ignored bc I'm not good enough because i wasn't in high school rodeo. I can't even Find any Friends that like horses to ride with either. the friends that i did have that like horses are all away in college & they didnt know squat about a horse. My neighbor has a horse but I wouldn't ever ask him for help I ended up with 2 mares that came from him D: Not even going into that story. & i have seen him ride his way is jump on & ride as hard as you can & if they don't listen Run them faster & jerk the bit harder. Then after they are tired tie them up in the barn without cooling them off & beat them. Put them up. & then he expected them not to run away the next time he wanted to catch them.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

SplashedOvero said:


> I just wish I could get help right now & figure this all out & get him fixed. Its bothering me seeing him sit out there. I had planned to the veterans day parade & Christmas parade this year like I did last year. I would probably give him away if I knew someone I could trust would take him. But I already know how everyone is with horses around here. they are passed around like crazy & they usually only end up worse. I hate living in Wv **Most** of the people that ride horses do it to look like they have money or to wins shows. The respectable people are all too busy or just keep to themselves & their horses or I haven't met them to know if they are decent people. 80% of the horse people I have met Show & train gaited horses and are snobs to anyone that tries to ask questions to get help. I went to school with a lot of girls that ride horses & parents have had horses for years. I try to talk to them & get help & i just get Ignored bc I'm not good enough because i wasn't in high school rodeo. I can't even Find any Friends that like horses to ride with either. the friends that i did have that like horses are all away in college & they didnt know squat about a horse. My neighbor has a horse but I wouldn't ever ask him for help I ended up with 2 mares that came from him D: Not even going into that story. & i have seen him ride his way is jump on & ride as hard as you can & if they don't listen Run them faster & jerk the bit harder. Then after they are tired tie them up in the barn without cooling them off & beat them. Put them up. & then he expected them not to run away the next time he wanted to catch them.


The location I live now the people from here are what everyone thinks when they think of Wv. They are the kind of people that makes Wv look bad. I hate it here & wish I could move back to where I was at least the people weren't as snobby & stupid (when they have no right to be snobs). Most of the people in my area are from "The County" 
(if your from wv you'll understand that one LOL) If i was back where my dad lives I would already have 10 people trying to help me. Theres actually horse people there that know what they are talking about. I may actually just break down & call my dad up he knows a little about horses D: & what he doesnt know he has friends that do.
although hes usually not interested in me or my sister anymore


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## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

*horse biteing*

im sorry you are selling him but if you do rember the good times ok and if you have still got him get him on a head collar and feed him and enforce him with your wip ask him to stand square and ask for his food by lifting a foreleg and make him work for it and youll get back on track it takes time or it could take 10 minuits to 10 days be persistant youll win him over.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Ok, Splash, I can tell your upset, you and your horse have been through a LOT and it really stinks, it's horrible any other human could do something like that. It's not ok for them to do that - if there's any chance at all they're still doing things, go to the police and just tell them to 'take notice' they will swing by your house a few times in the middle of the night, just to see if there's any activity. Police do that - it's part of their job.

As for your horse. "I'll have to treat him like an abuse case" - sorry I didn't want to fish through your whole quote just for that line, but that's your quote 
Yes, your horse has been through something, no he does not need to be treated differently. Here is what I would do, having dealt with a number of abused horses at our rescue. If you don't want to use the idea I presented in my PM - which has worked wonders for me, you can take a more traditional route.
I'd start on the other side of the paddock fence, sit and read a book. Sit with him for a couple hours, watch him - keep notes on him. How many times does he spook? Are the spooks for real reasons or something he made up? Does he spend most of his time eating or napping? Does he lay down to nap? Which spot is his favorite grazing spot? How much water does he drink? Does he like to roll? How many times did he roll? Does he shake off after rolling? Just learn about him, focus on his body language, see what he's doing. He will come over to you, but you should be on the other side of the fence, so as not to get hurt if he react violently, let him sniff you and figure you out. If he's not frightened or bothered you can rub him a little, I say rub, not pat, horses don't really like being pat they like firm rubs or scratches. 
When you're comfortable - with the halter and lead rope on and someone near by in case of emergency - practice just touching him. Start somewhere he's comfortable maybe his neck? And rub him, make it feel good, scratchy itchy now - watch him carefully. He may start to display his distrust or discomfort by 'screaming' at you, IE: biting at you if you touch somewhere he's not comfortable. But if you listen, move away, continue rubbing somewhere he's more comfortable, he'll realize that you are listening to him and start to 'talk' a little less loudly. He may just pin his ears and swing his head, then eventually just an ear pin. But the point isn't to make him talk quieter, the point is to make him comfortable with your presence and your touch. Repeat this game, talking to him softly and soothingly for just about 5-10 minutes MAX any more and you'll be stressing him, let him go and sort out what just happened. Do this a few times a day if possible. Do this until you can touch and rub every inch of him without his concern. Do this until you can pick up his feet and rub his belly. If he 'yells' at you, you went to fast, just slow down, start where he's comfortable, make soft long rubs, slowly invade his 'uncomfortable' areas and retreat if he begins to stress, but doesn't do anything. This isn't about punishing him for being uncomfortable to afraid of your touch, this is about slowly teaching him your touch feels good.

Once he's allowing you to freely touch him everywhere now you can begin the basic ground work yielding skills. Start with just rubbing him as usual, but stop at his hip, apply soft, gentle pressure and wait, if there's no response at all slowly increase the pressure, if he flips out, that was too much pressure. Some horses will move away with only a focal cue - EI: Look firmly at their hip and step into it, the horse will get the point, touching is too much pressure. If he is one of those horses you can gradually work him into allowing physical pressure to move him away, as that is how humans communicate with their animals - physical pressure. Repeat this game until you can move every inch of him. Remember 5-10 minute sessions a couple times a day, much more and you'll be asking for stress.

At this point you can begin his training again. 

I still think you should consider the option I PMed you, I found it works much faster and more effectively - but this method I just posted is a more traditional route. 
If you have any questions on how to do any of that let me know. 

Don't you worry about that girl - anything in the world can be scaring him, but your his person and he should see you as his safety net, the one place he can be completely safe. 
He also NEEDS a companion, the longer he goes without one the less sleep, the more stressed, the more frightened this horse will be. The more of all those things is what's leading him to be so violent - he's just over his breaking point. Get him a companion to help him deal with everyday life - when his life becomes safe he won't be stuck in this perpetual 'fight or flight mode' mentality. It'll take some time to remember what it feels like to feel safe. So give him a friend and some of your time and you'll watch him transform back into your old horse.

Good luck


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## AshsStorm (Sep 20, 2012)

SplashedOvero said:


> The location I live now the people from here are what everyone thinks when they think of Wv. They are the kind of people that makes Wv look bad. I hate it here & wish I could move back to where I was at least the people weren't as snobby & stupid (when they have no right to be snobs). Most of the people in my area are from "The County"
> (if your from wv you'll understand that one LOL) If i was back where my dad lives I would already have 10 people trying to help me. Theres actually horse people there that know what they are talking about. I may actually just break down & call my dad up he knows a little about horses D: & what he doesnt know he has friends that do.
> although hes usually not interested in me or my sister anymore


I've read this entire thread and I agree with most of the advice given to you.. Either get a trainer or sell him before he hurts you or himself. 

The real reason I decided to chime in is because I'm from WV myself and the horse community is not a very large, nor knowledgeable one so I can see why you're having trouble finding help. (Lol about the county!) I moved when I was 10 so fortunately, I didn't have to deal with the ignorance that radiates from that place for long. Not ALL of WV is bad but there are some places that make you question the human race.. Which is why my mom got us the hell out of there!

From what I've gathered, someone is trying to hurt you by hurting your horse. I would NOT take that lightly. In a certain county in NC, we've had 4 horses be shot down in their pasture in the last few months. It isn't something that you can prevent unless you move him. I would hate for your next update to be a tragic one. If it were me, I would rehome him if for nothing else, his own safety. 

Try to look at the situation from our view point. Good luck and keep us posted.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

Well she's already been warned by my parents ifs she's caught here bothering me or anything here she wont be leaving alive that's what my mom told her. I occasionally check her fb page as she doesn't keep it private she's not living with her friend anymore as of a few weeks ago she's back at her dads far away from me. And ashs storm lol I totally agree with you about some parts here make you question the human race haha. It's very hard to find any help here. I don't think the girl will be much of a problem anymore though


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

So have you decided what your plan is for your horse? I'm curious to hear


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

Looking around for a trainer. Or someone that will just Show me a few things to help me out. Hes still up for sale. My parents will NOT allow me to give him away for free as they have way to much money into him & are not willing to help me come up with more money to buy another one. They have told me to either sell him for enough to get another horse or keep him and they will help me out here and there when I get a job to help pay for some help with him. Since my bf isn't scared of him & he can get him to listen to him really good he is going to try to work with him on some of the things you guys have suggested and somethings hes been told by other people. Hes really good with him my horse trusts him & respects him.he has the strength to keep ahold of him & get him under control. If he gets him doing better hes going to continue working with him for several weeks till he then can start helping me get the problem under control when Im working with him. He doesn't have a ton of expearince but he worked ata barn for awhile.while he was there he had to be around & handle several stallions & mares & foals. If my boyfriend can't handle him (which he always has been able to even when I cant) then I will wait for someone to buy him or get a trainer. Finally he has a week off to work with him everyday which is awesome Because the whole time this has been going on hes been too busy to help me. He went in the field today & fed him with no problems at all & walked him to the gate & checked his feet. Which for me would have been a battle. Oh & im looking around for a Free Goat or mini horse. Everyones worried a Donkey may stress him out way too much.Since the ones at the bottom of my drive way scare him to death & he tries to charge them if he cant run.


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## toosexy4myspotz (Oct 7, 2007)

i live in va. what part of wv are you in? one of my old farriers is amazing with horses and he is extremely gentle and remarkable at what he does. i do not know what he would charge a month but its a thought if you would be interested. i can send you his name and number. he was on the tv show about logging with horses
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

toosexy4myspotz said:


> i live in va. what part of wv are you in? one of my old farriers is amazing with horses and he is extremely gentle and remarkable at what he does. i do not know what he would charge a month but its a thought if you would be interested. i can send you his name and number. he was on the tv show about logging with horses
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I live in mercer county.
& yes I would be interested


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I really hope that you will send him to a trainer. In just 30 days, my horse went from unusable to pretty nice with a real professional.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

Celeste said:


> I really hope that you will send him to a trainer. In just 30 days, my horse went from unusable to pretty nice with a real professional.


Trying to find one I found some on the internet for a very decent price but they want you to have a round pen or arena which I don't. 
Someones coming to buy my tack tomorrow(maybe?) I may use the money to send him somewhere


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Most any real professional trainer will expect you to send your horse to them. To get a horse trained, they need to work with him daily and they are sure not going to come to your house every day. Send him out and then when you get him back, ride him and handle him as often as you can. Daily if possible.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

Celeste said:


> Most any real professional trainer will expect you to send your horse to them. To get a horse trained, they need to work with him daily and they are sure not going to come to your house every day. Send him out and then when you get him back, ride him and handle him as often as you can. Daily if possible.


Oh well I didnt know that :/ all the advertisements say
your farm $30 per hour my farm $50 per hour. Or $300 a month for everything at their ranch. Ok also Any ideas on what to look for in a trainer like questions to ask to make sure theyre good


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I would want a local reference. 

I would also try to see him or her riding a horse that they have trained. 

The trainer that I used was recommended by my farrier. 

She charged $500 per month. I also paid her extra because she picked up my mare and delivered her. I sent her to her initially; then I sent her later for a refresher course. It is the best money I could have spent. You just don't get a good riding horse without investing some money. 

I have over 40 years of experience riding. I have trained some easy to deal with horses. But this was way over my head. This horse is really spirited. She is a great horse. She was just too much for me to handle without the professional trainer.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

Celeste said:


> I would want a local reference.
> 
> I would also try to see him or her riding a horse that they have trained.
> 
> ...


Ok thanks. I really hate selling him but I dont want to do it all myself so If I find a trainer & a job hes going to get training for sure.


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

If you can’t get a trainer and you do have to sell the horse, as hard as it might be, just try to remember that you are young and will have many horses in the years to come. And it actually gets better, you have more experience and know how to handle them better, and probably have more money and can get a better horse. It can be tough to see them go, but there’s always another round the corner.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

AnrewPL said:


> If you can’t get a trainer and you do have to sell the horse, as hard as it might be, just try to remember that you are young and will have many horses in the years to come. And it actually gets better, you have more experience and know how to handle them better, and probably have more money and can get a better horse. It can be tough to see them go, but there’s always another round the corner.


Yea I kinda realized that today when I put up another ad for him.
I was looking at all the others 
& I was like dang there really are a lot of other horses out there.
Ones with training that I could be enjoying right now. 
It seems like everytime I try to sell him to get another it falls through.
I tried selling him once before when he was doing good & I found older horses.
& it was almost impossible for me to get another one. Everything kept going wrong. Till I was ok ill keep him. We had $800 in the bank saved up to buy a really good horse. we found one everyone really liked & we went to withdraw the money to buy it & it was -800. The bank took it because they said we over drew or something then after the horse was already sold we got it straightened out & they was wrong we didnt over draw & they had to refund the money. then I was like ok Im just Not meant to have any other horse but comanche. My step dad was mad because he really wanted that horse too. he was like in love with her I think he wanted her more than I did


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## The Greener Side (Jun 28, 2011)

I hope you find what you're looking for. 
I hope you find time in your day to commit to another horse if you choose that route and don't have happen what happened with this guy. 
I work two full-time jobs, and am full-time vet tech on campus college student, but I still make time before anything else to spend at least an hour a day 5 days a week minimum and have a wonderful leaser to cover the days I can't to make sure my horses are getting the attention, and exercise they need to stay happy. It's extremely important to keep their brains active, and if you can't find the time on a constant basis to put that effort in, then you might best find that you need to, if only temporarily, get out of horses in general, and start again with a fully matured horse, when you can commit 110% because if not, you'll just find yourself in the same mess over and over. 
I really hope you can make it work, prioritize, basketball, or horses?
Hope I wasn't too blunt


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

Hey everyone update time on Comanche. I moved him and he's now with other horses and he's gone back to his normal old self and listening great
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EquineBovine (Sep 6, 2012)

Photos? 
Glad to hear he is back to himself!


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

View attachment 122882


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## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

*horse behaviour*

hiya and thanks for keeping us in the loop and i am happy you have bonded with your horse again keep us in the loop as how your both geting on many thanks.


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## EquineBovine (Sep 6, 2012)

Photo didn't work (


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