# My new 4yr old BLM mustang gelding with a black blaze<3



## Tabbi Kat (Nov 30, 2010)

I just adopted this boy a month ago out of the pens in Litchfield, CA. He is a bay dun and I have never in my life seen this marking on a horse's face before. Would this be called a black blaze? His name is Sam Elliot and his gentling/training is going great!


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## Tabbi Kat (Nov 30, 2010)

I took this photo right after unloading him off of the trailer. It is so funny because I thought he was just a plain old bay when I adopted him. I didn't notice the black blaze or dun factor until he was off the trailer.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I do not see the dun factor. 

To me his face almost looks like a lack of sun fading. Hopefully the people more versed in color genetics will chime in.


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## Tabbi Kat (Nov 30, 2010)

He has a dorsal stripe, dual colored ears, barring on his withers and legs... That is all dun factor. The hair on his face is black all the way down to the skin.


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## Tabbi Kat (Nov 30, 2010)

You can see his dorsal stripe in this photo. You can't see the baring on his legs because this photo was taken on day one and he still had a lot of winter coat on.


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

D'aww. Aint he purdy. Him and my mare would be the best of friends - they're about the same color, and they both have crazy hair! I love the mustangs.

He looks like a bay to me. BUT - I could be wrong. He is BEAUTIFUL. Look at that face! His eyes are darling.


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## Tabbi Kat (Nov 30, 2010)

Is it not possible for them to be bay in color and have the dun factor? My other mustang is a red dun. I don't know much about genetics so I'm curious.


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

Tabbi Kat said:


> Is it not possible for them to be bay in color and have the dun factor? My other mustang is a red dun. I don't know much about genetics so I'm curious.


Red dun is a lot different than bay. It's like taking a sorrel horse and throwing dun on them. A diluted red. That's a weird way to put it, but it makes sense in my head...lol. I've always referred to what Fjords and Przewalskis look like when it comes to duns. I don't see dun in this guy, aside from his facial markings and the stripe. He just looks like a unique bay, or some may say he's just brown (apparently my mare is just plain brown according to this forum ...). I think dun is a dilute, and I've never seen one as dark as your guy is. BUT like I said, I am probably wrong. Haha


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

he would not be considered brown, because of the large amount of redness to his coat and his black points/mane and tail. I agree that he is most likely just a very unique bay. If he's only four, his 'blaze' will most likely fade with time. It is very interesting though, that his neck is extremely dark also. I don't know what to tell you as far as the dun factor...I don't think it can show in bay, but he DOES have a dorsal stripe. Either way, he's a very pretty boy! And I love the tiny star on his forehead ^^


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

Endiku said:


> he would not be considered brown, because of the large amount of redness to his coat and his black points/mane and tail. I agree that he is most likely just a very unique bay. If he's only four, his 'blaze' will most likely fade with time. It is very interesting though, that his neck is extremely dark also. I don't know what to tell you as far as the dun factor...I don't think it can show in bay, but he DOES have a dorsal stripe. Either way, he's a very pretty boy! And I love the tiny star on his forehead ^^


There is such thing as a bay dun (zebra dun?) but I'm not quite sure what distinguishes it from a regular dun.


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

That has to be one of the best looking mustangs I've ever seen.


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

myhorsesonador said:


> That has to be one of the best looking mustangs I've ever seen.


Hey now, can't be saying that in front of another mustang owner


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

Equilove said:


> Hey now, can't be saying that in front of another mustang owner


:wink: Well I've never really seen yours sooo :lol:


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## Tabbi Kat (Nov 30, 2010)

myhorsesonador said:


> That has to be one of the best looking mustangs I've ever seen.



Thank you! Don't tell my other mustang but I agree with you 100%! Boy, oh boy, can he move too! I think the name Sam Elliot fits him perfectly!

Here is a video of Michele DeCamp working with him. I have no experience gentling a wild horse so she is doing his first 90 days of gentling/training. She is such an amazing woman to work with and I love that she helping create a soft supple horse


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

myhorsesonador said:


> :wink: Well I've never really seen yours sooo :lol:


Well I'll post some photos, but not for bragging purposes I assure you  Mostly because I'd like some opinions on her color. I was told she is not a bay, and someone mentioned earlier that the large amount of red in the gelding's coat is what makes him bay. My mare definitely has red...


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## Tabbi Kat (Nov 30, 2010)

She sure looks like a gorgeous baybay to me! In my opinion she is a bay!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Sure looks bay to me.

Though I am not a color expert.



OP, Counter shading can frequently be confused with a dorsal stripe. Not saying this is or is not the case with your new horse. Just saying that a dark stripe down there back does not always mean what people want it to.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

They both look like bays to me. The dorsal stripe may just be countershading, and not a true stripe.

My heart horse was a primitive bay, and had the dorsal countershading. He most definitely wasn't a dun, because purebred Arabians don't come that color! :wink:


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Both horses are bay in my opinion.

The OP's horse looks like he has quite a lot of sooty going on. Pretty cool to see.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

I was thinking sooty too. Beautiful horses!


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## Tabbi Kat (Nov 30, 2010)

I just read up on the sooty gene. I'm pretty sure that is what he has going on


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

NdAppy said:


> Both horses are bay in my opinion.


Interesting, since you are one of the people that insisted my horse was brown and not bay in a thread posted last month? 

Sooty is a good word to describe him. I knew there was some word I was looking for, it was on the tip of my tongue, and that's it. Sooty bay!


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

Good lord, that horse is gorgeous!


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Ahh, but you have now posted summer pictures. I did not realize that it was the same horse or that I had even seen it before.  Same horse that is in your barn correct? Still a brown in that case. Yours shows that it is truly a brown in it's winter coat.


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## Tabbi Kat (Nov 30, 2010)

He makes me swoon<3 I can't wait until he is done growing and filled out He is gonna be a beefcake! The pen he is standing in is 7' tall. I think he may mature to 15.3 maybe 16hh.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Tabbi, what a gorgeous horse. How lucky to find such a nice guy to adopt. He seems so sensible too. Good catch.

Equi, yours is beautiful, but I especially love that great avatar photo!


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## LostTitanic (Jun 16, 2011)

My sister, forgottenbritannic, as a neighbor who owns a Morgan with the same " black blaze" as Sam Elliot and I thought that she was just an unusual horse. Other than Sam Elliot and the Morgan I have never seen or heard of a horse with a "black blaze"


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## livestoride (Mar 30, 2011)

I know next to nothing about colors. I just wanted to say that he is absolutely stunning!!!!!


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## Tabbi Kat (Nov 30, 2010)

livestoride said:


> I know next to nothing about colors. I just wanted to say that he is absolutely stunning!!!!!


Thank you so much! I am excited to watch this boy grow and learn!


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

You should keep us updated with pictures. will be interesting to see if his sooty changes at all.


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## Tabbi Kat (Nov 30, 2010)

I will definitely keep the photos updated We also have a training video diary. I will love him even if he loses his black blaze but I really hope it stays!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I second the opinion that he is an excellent example of what a great quality Mustang looks like. He is a rather impressive specimen.

I agree that it looks like sooty causing all his unique coloring. I've _heard_ of one other horse with a black blaze, but I had never had the opportunity to see one. My Dad rode a sorrel sometime in the 70's that he said had a black blaze like that. I am convinced that it is just a concentration of the sooty factor (much like a Bend Or spot). Doesn't make it any less intriguing though .

Yes, more photos as he grows and progresses, please.


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## Plains Drifter (Aug 4, 2009)

He is absolutely gorgeous!!! Will definitely watch for new pics & video!


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## Pistol Babe (Jun 14, 2011)

Definitely a sooty bay. And a very gorgeous one at that!


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## OTTBLover (Jun 23, 2011)

Just have to say what a stunning horse!


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

He is quite gorgeous.


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

Wow, if that is what sooty looks like on bay, I like it!! I'm not generally a sooty fan, especially for buckskins and palominos, I sure like it on your guy!

And I didn't see the older pics, but both horses look bay to me.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

The best trail horse I've ever owned is a BLM Mustang (see John Henry in my "horses" section). 

Enjoy your beautiful boy!


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Your horse is lovely, but I think he is a bay as well. How long has he been at the trainers? He is doing well for an unhandled horse.


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## Tabbi Kat (Nov 30, 2010)

Thanks everyone!

Sam Elliot has only been in gentling/training for a little over 30 days now. He is VERY smart, inquisitive, willing, and gentle and his training is coming along a lot quicker than we thought it would. He will probably have a saddle on within the next two weeks. Lol it's crazy that he is way better on the ground than my 16 year old haha. I am proud to be owned by such a smart horse. I can't wait to get him started under saddle<3


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## Tabbi Kat (Nov 30, 2010)

Here are a few more of my favorite photos of him on the day I picked him out at the pens in Litchfield, CA and after he was unloaded at home.


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

NdAppy said:


> Ahh, but you have now posted summer pictures. I did not realize that it was the same horse or that I had even seen it before.  Same horse that is in your barn correct? Still a brown in that case. Yours shows that it is truly a brown in it's winter coat.


*facepalm* Oy vey, lol. She is not only shed out, but she is healthier and her coat shows it. She's bay.


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

Tabbi Kat said:


> Here are a few more of my favorite photos of him on the day I picked him out at the pens in Litchfield, CA and after he was unloaded at home.


He is so beautiful. I love how he's built. Looks like a very sturdy horse!


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Equilove said:


> *facepalm* Oy vey, lol. She is not only shed out, but she is healthier and her coat shows it. She's bay.


:?I did not say that she wasn't healthier now did I? Thanks for reading into that. :?

There are quite a few browns that look bay during the summer. come winter and longer hair and the "true" color shows through. Brown can come in any shade. You happen to have one that looks bay in the summer time.


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## Tabbi Kat (Nov 30, 2010)

I'm going to try and diffuse the situation between you two. I do not believe she was reading into anything it sounds as if she is just making a statement that her horse is in a much healthier condition right now. She didn't accuse you of saying her horse was unhealthy before. Y'all don't gotta be so snippity with each other, this is just a discussion on color not politics I, personally, never judge a horses' color by their winter coat. That would be like telling my friend that her horse is actually black because her winter coat makes her look that way when in fact in the spring she sheds out to such an amazing blue roan with a solid black face. Equilove has a bay not a brown This is just my opinion on the matter.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

*shrugs*


Sometimes you cannot go off of the summer coat alone as some horse sun fade so badly it skews their color. You have to see the horse in all seasons. Hence why I look at winter pictures. Take a look at the brown thread here in the color section. There is more than one example of a brown that fades to bay in the summer. It is common, it happens, it does not make they less of a horse for being brown. :roll:


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## Tabbi Kat (Nov 30, 2010)

I agree completely that it doesn't make it any less of a horse to be brown. Browns and bays are equally beautiful So if her horse were kept in a stall and not in the sun in turn out all day you would still be calling her horse brown even it the coat hasn't had a ton of sun exposure? I'm just curious of your opinion. I know so many horses that are completely different colors between winter and summer that don't live in pasture and have a ton of sun exposure. It totally made a lot of sense when you brought up the sun fading color and I never even thought of that


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Yes I would. I would just consider her horse to be one of the lighter brown. I do this because of the "mealy" points that appear in the horse's winter coat. If the horse was not brown based, those mealy points would not be there. I hope that makes sense.


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

NdAppy said:


> :?I did not say that she wasn't healthier now did I? Thanks for reading into that. :?
> 
> There are quite a few browns that look bay during the summer. come winter and longer hair and the "true" color shows through. Brown can come in any shade. You happen to have one that looks bay in the summer time.


My point was that _because_ she is healthier, her COAT is healther, and therefore brighter. I wasn't saying you called her unhealthy or anything like that, sorry  The photos of her in my "barn" on here were taken the day I got her, in overcast conditions, toward the end of winter. There was even a photo of her taken in May that you commented on saying she was brown in a previous post.

It doesn't matter, though. I don't want to hijack the thread, so I apologize to the OP.


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

Best way to find out is to get a test done to see if the "bay" has the aguot (sp) gene which pulls the black from the coat to the points. The Dun factor can be tested for as well. I have a bay roan, looks bay bay in winter. IMO many "browns" are bays as well. Black points have always meant "bay" of some kind. 

OP, Love the sooty markings on your "bay"?maybe also be dun mustang.  I have what I call a sooty Pali. I haven't tested for "smoke" gene as I am too lazy. lol


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## Tabbi Kat (Nov 30, 2010)

Since I only live a hour from UC Davis I think I may have a genetic test done just for fun! Good idea! Lol I don't know why I didn't think of that! I always thought that about the black points also.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Appyt - you have to test specifically for brown out of the Agouti genes. Just testing for Agouti will tell you if agouti is present, not which form of agouti is there. 


There are three forms of agouti. Bay (A), Brown (At) and Wild Bay (A+). All three of them will show as agouti on the test fro UC Davis. There is only one place to test for brown (At) Pet DNA Services of AZ - Equine Services and there is no test for wild bay.

So in a way, you are correct since brown is just another form of bay. :wink:


ETA Browns can and do have black points.


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## Tabbi Kat (Nov 30, 2010)

Equilove, there is no need to apologize at all Lol I may just be ignorant but I still think your horse looks bay and not brown. I never saw those first day photos but healthy does play a huge part in color. When I bought Cameo she looked like a dull sorrel and after getting some good groceries, minerals, and carrots in her the coat color changed quite a bit. She is a very light red dun now and looks soooooooo far from sorrel. Even her winter coat is a way different shade of red now too.


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

Tabbi Kat said:


> So if her horse were kept in a stall and not in the sun in turn out all day you would still be calling her horse brown even it the coat hasn't had a ton of sun exposure?


She is stallkept 

I like your horse's color a lot though. I've never seen the sooty color on a bay. It's very striking. He's a handsome fellow, and he has such curious eyes. Savanna has "human" eyes - she can portray so many very clear emotions through those big eyes that I've never seen a horse do before. I think your fellow has eyes like hers. He's very interesting, he'll be a heck of a horse! Did you mention what you were going to do with him? Any specific discipline? He looks like he'd make a SOLID trail horse! Maybe endurance?


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## Tabbi Kat (Nov 30, 2010)

Wow I am learning a lot this morning! NdAppy that is some very interesting information! Thanks for sharing who does which kind of testing too!


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Glad to be of some help lol Color genetics seem to change fairly quickly in the horse world. I try to be as up to date with them as I possibly can.  I am always more than happy to share what I have learned as well.


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## Tabbi Kat (Nov 30, 2010)

Equilove said:


> She is stallkept
> 
> I like your horse's color a lot though. I've never seen the sooty color on a bay. It's very striking. He's a handsome fellow, and he has such curious eyes. Savanna has "human" eyes - she can portray so many very clear emotions through those big eyes that I've never seen a horse do before. I think your fellow has eyes like hers. He's very interesting, he'll be a heck of a horse! Did you mention what you were going to do with him? Any specific discipline? He looks like he'd make a SOLID trail horse! Maybe endurance?


I know exactly what you mean when you are saying human eyes! Sam Elliot makes my heart melt! He is such a curious, brave, willing soul and he always wants to please me. He is a ham when it comes to being groomed or scratched. Lol I have never met a domestic horse that likes to be loved on like this boy which is perfect for me since I feel like the living, breathing Elmira from Looney Tunes. Lol, I wanna love 'em and hug 'em and squeeze 'em!

I have BIG plans for this boy! I am hoping in a few years to compete with him in the Extreme Cowboy Races! He is such a brave, sound minded horse and boy can he move so I believe he will excel at the extreme cowboy races! I also plan to do at least 25 mile endurance races on him as well as attend local gymkhanas, poker runs, move cattle AND dressage. He is going to be a very well rounded riding partner just like my other mustang


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

Tabbi Kat said:


> I know exactly what you mean when you are saying human eyes! Sam Elliot makes my heart melt! He is such a curious, brave, willing soul and he always wants to please me. He is a ham when it comes to being groomed or scratched. Lol I have never met a domestic horse that likes to be loved on like this boy which is perfect for me since I feel like the living, breathing Elmira from Looney Tunes. Lol, I wanna love 'em and hug 'em and squeeze 'em!
> 
> I have BIG plans for this boy! I am hoping in a few years to compete with him in the Extreme Cowboy Races! He is such a brave, sound minded horse and boy can he move so I believe he will excel at the extreme cowboy races! I also plan to do at least 25 mile endurance races on him as well as attend local gymkhanas, poker runs, move cattle AND dressage. He is going to be a very well rounded riding partner just like my other mustang


D'awwww. Savanna is funny when it comes to being scratched. She doesn't like to "admit" that she's enjoying the scratch, so when you hit a good spot, she looks at you like "Omg, that feels really good, but... I'm not admitting it" like a bratty teenager. But I know she likes it, cause I can just bareeeely see that lip move. There's one spot on her neck that she LOVES to have scratched though, and she definitely admits it then, because she moves her whole body. Haha. Gotta love em! Where are you located? I want to do some cowboy races. I think Savanna would do well with them.


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

NdAppy, Good to know. I hadn't heard of the other tests. Lots of new info out on color and it's great...


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## Tabbi Kat (Nov 30, 2010)

I live in Grass Valley, California. In order to enjoy the trails out here your horse needs to be part mountain goat lol. I have only been living up here for six months now and have loved every minute of it! It is amazing to have the Tevis Trail as my backyard practically. 

That is so funny! Sam has a spot like that on his neck too! Lol he knows he isn't allowed to give me scratches so when I hit that oh face spot he starts nibbling and scratching the rails of the pen


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

Tabbi Kat said:


> I live in Grass Valley, California. In order to enjoy the trails out here your horse needs to be part mountain goat lol. I have only been living up here for six months now and have loved every minute of it! It is amazing to have the Tevis Trail as my backyard practically.
> 
> That is so funny! Sam has a spot like that on his neck too! Lol he knows he isn't allowed to give me scratches so when I hit that oh face spot he starts nibbling and scratching the rails of the pen


Savanna was adopted in Bakersfield, CA, but she was born in NM. Some how she ended up all the way in Kentucky!

Savanna nibbles at the air.


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## Tabbi Kat (Nov 30, 2010)

Cute!!!


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