# Bad Instructors



## palogal

I've seen two this week...thought I'd share. 
These are just two signs of a bad instructor....

1) Lessons are VERY inexpensive. Groups are big and horses do not stop. This is unsafe. I watched a group lesson with 4 students in it, horses were not suitable for them and they all ran in circles for most of the lesson. 

2) Instructor claims to specialize in X but her students do not ever place in X, nor does she teach her students to move the horse correctly to perform X. (X is my discipline as well, and this ain't right). Do your homework and make sure you're getting correct instruction. READ and make sure your instruction is aligned with your discipline's standards. This particular trainer does give the impression of confidence.

So, just a tip. Be educated and be safe.


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## DraftyAiresMum

palogal said:


> So, just a tip. Be educated and be safe.


Adding to this sentiment...also be open to the fact that your instructor, no matter how much you like them, may not be the best match for you or may not even know what the heck they're doing. Seen a few (young) people on here that think their current instructor is a god and can do no wrong, when in fact the instructor (from what the poster has said they do) has absolutely no clue what they're doing and the poster will not hear anything constructive or "negative" those far more experienced have to say.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cruiser

Instructors that can ride really well doesn't mean they can teach. Instructors that can't ride (due to health, injury etc) doesn't mean they are no good.


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## Saddlebag

When I taught it was a private lesson only. As much as I wanted a student to think I had eyes in the back of my head, I don't and if I'm watching a second rider I can't watch the first and if something should happen with the first rider I'd have missed it.


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## Maple

I've seen my fair share of bad instructors... in my opinion I have yet to see a quality instructor since coming to Ireland. Maybe it's just the area I'm in, or the lesson stables I have been to but it all seems to be the same - jump as quickly as possible. Kids jumping without knowing the correct diagonal, without cantering, and a lot of them are tucked into a line nose-to-tail and just follow each other over the jumps rather than learn how to approach and control the horse themselves. I find it incredibly frustrating and am very difficult to find an instructor I feel happy to send my kid to (I have a friend teach her). Obviously this isn't all.. it's just my own experiences here.


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## Foxhunter

Saddlebag said:


> When I taught it was a private lesson only. As much as I wanted a student to think I had eyes in the back of my head, I don't and if I'm watching a second rider I can't watch the first and if something should happen with the first rider I'd have missed it.


There is a big difference in lessons between the US and UK. 
In the UK majority of novice lessons are done in group rides - up to eight riders in a lesson.
I like this because it gives people a break from trying hard, gives them a chance to see how it can be done, adds a competitive element to a lesson and most of all makes the horses act as individuals.

One other thing I would add, good teachers have a natural gift.


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## FeatheredFeet

As with anything, finding a really good trainer, requires homework. How safe and well trained, are the lesson horses? How safe is the tack? How safe is the area in which the students will ride? Have their students gone on to higher levels? How much experience has the trainer had? Are they well known in the industry? How large are the classes? Lots to consider. 

I think we saw on this forum, a while ago, a supposed 'trainer' who was giving lessons and didn't even have the correct tack on her very poor looking horses.

Don't give your child over to _any_ person, who has not met ALL your requirements of a knowledgeable trainer. If not trained properly, it could mean the life of your child.

Lizzie


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## BellaMFT

I think you know you have a bad instructor when all their of lesson horses buck you off and they say "well this is just something you have to figure out." Then they proceed to sell you and unbroke 3 y/o mustang for your first horse and tell you it's a good idea. :shock: Not that I am speaking from experience or anything.


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## jaydee

We've had so many threads on here where people have been paying for lessons on totally unsuitable horses and where they are still learning to trot after a year or more. I know everyone has their own level of progress but some of these places are really a rip off
In the UK there are BHS approved riding schools where at least you can have some confidence that the trainer has been 'trained' and somewhere to complain too if you're not satisfied or have concerns. 
Maybe some sort of an approval scheme in the US would be a good place to start, when you know nothing its very easy to be impressed by someone who knows only a very little so I can see why people get conned and misled
Group lessons are good if all the horses know their job and work independently - not just crocodile fashion one after the other. I would expect a group I was teaching to do individual exercises as well as working together to establish that they knew how to give correct cues/aids


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## faiza425

The problem I see with a lot of new riders looking for an instructor/stables is that they don't know what to expect and look for. Many instructors will take advantage of that, unfortunately.
There was this instructor that worked at a barn across the street from me a few years ago. I was probably twelve at the time, taking a walk with my parents in hopes that I would get to pet one of the horses. She came over and very sweetly started talking to my parents about how lessons were so cheap and the horses were perfectly safe. She was holding this half-dead mare, which was frantically trying to eat some of the grass on the side of the road. When I petted her, clouds of dust puffed up. She was a Paint, but you couldn't tell because she was so dirty. 
You didn't want to walk past there or even be outside during a lesson of hers. She screamed at her students, a bunch of teenagers she had promised green horses if they did enough work, only to sell those horses to slaughter under their noses. I'm not exaggerating/joking, either.
Point being, check out a barn you're thinking about going to with a knowledgeable horse person, or at least do your homework on what you should find at a reputable stables. Ask someone at a tack or feed store if you don't know any horse people. Come to watch a lesson and meet the horses/staff before making a decision.
That's just my two cents. Be educated!


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## minstrel

I think for young kids, group lessons are beneficial - the number of 5-8 yo kids who can concentrate solidly on riding for an hour without breaks, watching their friends ride too, and making it fun and slightly competitive? Kids like riding with other kids - hence the point of Pony Club. But it has to be safely. Things become very different once they hit 9/10 (although for some kids, they can be 16/17 and still only like riding when they're playing around with their friends... so individuals I guess.)


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## Muppetgirl

Cruiser said:


> Instructors that can ride really well doesn't mean they can teach. Instructors that can't ride (due to health, injury etc) doesn't mean they are no good.


Haha I'm not the best rider, but I was told by an accomplished rider that I'd be a good coach because I have a good eye on the ground for what's going on.....now if only I could pop one eye out and sit it on the arena wall while I'm riding......:think:


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## Cruiser

Muppetgirl, I know what you mean, I am better at helping other riders due my own health issues, like joints that don't bend or flex properly. It doesn't mean I don't know what I should be doing or what it should look like it means I may not be capaible of physially able too. 

I had a awsome instructor that broke her back and no longer rode, I learned more in four lessons with her than I ever did with an other able bodied trainer.

Sorry about the spelling I can't seem to remember how to spell any thing tonight.


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## Diamond Sutcliff

I was just thinking about this a little while ago.

I had one woman who, when I was quite small and inexperienced, put me on a horse that bucked. And I mean BUCKED. Not that sissy little jumping. He BUCKED. If I hadn't wrapped my arms around his neck and hung on, I think I would have fallen. That was the worst teaching experience of my entire riding life.


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## Fulford15

When it comes to instructors/coaches, I am VERY open minded. Yes, I may not learn a lot from one person, but I am open to learning AT LEAST one thing from every coach I have ridden with either them being a very professional coach or not.

When looking for a coach it is important to make sure they are CERTIFIED and have insurance as well. Anyone can "coach" someone to "ride", but if the instructor has taken the needed courses and mentoring hours to become certified, I would more then certaintly trust them more, not saying that there are instuctors that airn't certified that I wouldn't trust though, just IMO.

Yes, group lessons can be fun!! I found when I was younger and in group lessons with 4 other children I got very frusterated as I was ignored a lot since I was more advanced then the other riders in the group, hence why since I was 8 I have always taken private lessons, I like having the one on one connection with the coach and the "attention" I wanted to reach a higher point in my riding. I can completely understand if the child is just in riding for fun or in that "horsey stage" though!!


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## xeventer17

Finding good instructors can be very tricky, especially if you are young and inexperienced. That being said, I agree with Fulford. Every instructor has something to offer, be it teaching you what NOT to do, and what types of instructors to stay away from, or teaching you how to ride properly.

I was blessed, when I was younger, to have had an array of instructors, both good and bad. I jumped around barns a lot and rode rather sporadically, as my parents couldn't afford much. The first barn I ever rode at was an up and coming hunter barn that wasn't much when I started there 15 years ago. They gave me a very solid hunter seat and basic riding/handling skills. Now, 15 years later, they are a huge operation and doing very well. After them, I had the misfortune of falling into a few bad places that took advantage of my experience by sticking me on green horses and mostly ignoring me during group lessons. These were mostly summer camps though. Soon after, I was blessed to find an incredible barn in Virgina where I learned all of my advanced horse handling skills and was turned to eventing. Having been riding for 15 years, and having jumped around quite a few places, I stand by the fact that I learned more at that barn than I have anywhere else. Since then, I have found that not every instructor works for every person, and you shouldn't write them off as a bad instructor simply because they don't work for you. My most recent trainer taught me, I dare say, nothing, but I was blinded by friendship, so I rode with her. She was not a bad instructor, per say, she's great with kids and beginners, but is not as great at helping the advanced riders along. That being said, she was more than happy to take money from the people who were learning nothing from her, so be careful!


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## EliRose

Another flag: If an instructor gets upset about you going with your friend to another farm watch their lesson, leave! Those are the ones that won't ever let you go (creepy sounding O.O) once you have gone to the next level, and will tell you you're not ready because they can't train you anymore.

WOW that statement makes no sense, except in my head


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## horsecrazygirl

^^second that!


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## Saranda

I would avoid having lessons from an instructor who himself/herself avoids broadening his/hers experience and learning, because of a belief that he/she hasn't got anything more to learn. Anyone who teaches should be open to knowledge and learning himself!


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## jody111

You gotta click with your instructor and they have to be approachable... I left my last coach as I couldnt talk to them...

Love my current one!!!!

Shes also a fantastic rider as well as a great coach and will get on my horse....

Unless its a clinic I only have a one on one lesson


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## Mochachino

Fulford15 said:


> When it comes to instructors/coaches, I am VERY open minded. Yes, I may not learn a lot from one person, but I am open to learning AT LEAST one thing from every coach I have ridden with either them being a very professional coach or not.
> 
> When looking for a coach it is important to make sure they are CERTIFIED and have insurance as well. Anyone can "coach" someone to "ride", but if the instructor has taken the needed courses and mentoring hours to become certified, I would more then certaintly trust them more, not saying that there are instuctors that airn't certified that I wouldn't trust though, just IMO.
> 
> Yes, group lessons can be fun!! I found when I was younger and in group lessons with 4 other children I got very frusterated as I was ignored a lot since I was more advanced then the other riders in the group, hence why since I was 8 I have always taken private lessons, I like having the one on one connection with the coach and the "attention" I wanted to reach a higher point in my riding. I can completely understand if the child is just in riding for fun or in that "horsey stage" though!!


I found out that the word "certified" did not mean a good coach. That word means next to nothing for me with the experience I went through. 20+ years experience and `certified.....but the decisions that were made were shocking.


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## Fulford15

Mochachino said:


> I found out that the word "certified" did not mean a good coach. That word means next to nothing for me with the experience I went through. 20+ years experience and `certified.....but the decisions that were made were shocking.


 
Very true, I know many certified coaches that are not a professional coach. I don't know about the USA, but Equine Canada has very good programs for coaching certification and it is a lot more difficult in this day and age to get certified, you can't just be anyone from boo. I am just saying I would _trust _a certified coach more as they would have the needed Insurance to be coaching at shows or show barns, etc.. at least here in Canada. I am speaking from a wide range of coaches, obviously there will always be "that one or few" that have bad reputations. The horse world is full of gossip, and the horse communitys I have been in, you know who to trust.


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## littleamy76

I have learned to go with your gut instinct. I remember when I was around 11, my mom signed me up at a local barn for riding lessons. The instructor was also the barn owner, was not very friendly. She would have me do things but wouldn't explain the reasoning of why. She also yelled and was just very crass. I left there with very uneasy feelings about this woman. Fast forward 20 years later and 100 miles south of where I took lessons at, I was working at an office supply store making copies for people. This man and his daughter came in and handed over pictures and documents to copy. We're not suppose to look at what we are copying but I glanced down and saw a horse and on the documents had the name of the barn where I took lessons at as a child. Come to find out, this girl had a beautiful show saddlebred that she had boarded there and the instructor/barn owner had not been feeding it. They were taking the barn owner to court over starving this girl's horse. Those uneasy feelings I had, were right.


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## xGirugamesh

The stable I board my horse at definitely has a ripoff lessons program. Her lessons are moderately priced but very A-type and I feel like that's a bad way to teach considering the fact that the people taking lessons don't have horses of their own. She also charges about 450$ for summer camps that are 2-3 days long with little real riding time. I hate her but this barn is so convenient because I live in a suburb and it's only five minutes away.


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## Foxhunter

I am a qualified instructor, I know I am a good instructor and I enjoy teaching. 

Things have changed a lot since I was learning and not necessarily for the better.

I learnt at a riding school run by two partners, the woman took the beginners and he took the more advanced. There were also two employed girls that took some of the rides.

I think it was over a year before I was riding in the arena. All novices started out on the lead rein out on hacks. We were first taught to sit and develop a good seat. Rising trot was not allowed until you could do a good sitting trot. 
`I stil agree with this. Posting is easy, sitting not so. Once a rising trot is established a rider rarely ever does a sitting trot and the novice finds sitting very hard. By learning a good sitting trot the canter comes easy because the seat is secure.

That woman had eyes like a hawk! She would shout out instructions, from the rear of the ride and you got away with nothing! When walking back we would ride in pairs and be told to mane parts of the horse, the tack or asked what sort of tree a certain one was or what bird was singing in a tree we passed.
The thing was about learning this way was that you were relaxed. The ponies were going forward without having to worry about corners. Cantering was in a straight line and the ponies knew they were going from A to B so there was no having to worry about the correct aids and you were concentrating on your position. 

When you moved up to a more advanced ride then it was a different matter. He was military and rides were conducted as such! Competition between riders was great. No individual lessons always in groups of eight. Very few riders could have lasted an hour of that tough teaching! 
We would go un the jumping lane without stirrups or reins, either taking our jackets off or putting them on. Cantering around the arena taking the ponies saddle off and holding it up.
All this was to develop a good strong seat and confidence - the best start any rider can have. 

I rarely teach nowadays. Last time I did several lessons was when I was at 'home' and took my niece's ponies and stabled them at a riding school I use to run. 
The kids I taught had children of their own and asked if I could take them for a lesson.
Poor kids were terrified! Their parents had told them how tough I was, how hard they would have to work, how the ponies would be worked hard too. 
I had eight of them in the indoor arena and worked them hard. Ponies and kids were sweating before half the ride was over but, end of the lesson everyone of those children asked if they could have a lesson the next day.
Yes, I am tough, yes I do shout so that instructions are audible, I demand respect and get it. 
I can assess a rider's ability and confidence within a minute and adjust my expectations to suit. 
Most of all I am fair. I might shout but encouragement is frequent - praise is earned and the fact that I am confident rubs off on the riders and the ponies. 

Experience and intelligence of both horses and riders is vital to be a good instructor. An instinct for teaching a terrific bonus!

Teaching at a Pony Club camp one summer I had a girl on very nice pony that was a bit 'hot'. The girl was very nervous.

On the first lesson in the afternoon, the girl was cantering rather fast when the pony spooked and she fell off. She was shaken but not hurt. 
That evening I saw the girl walking towards her mother's car, her head was down and she looked sad. I put my arm around her and said "Don't you worry, Lizzy, tomorrow I will take the fizz out of Champagne and he will be a better pony for it."
The next lesson I had her at the front of the riders. We had done some warm up exercises and then it was "Off your pony and onto the one in front." My niece was then on Champagne. I had her canter around the arena and do several circles as she went around the arena. Then they swapped ponies again. Champagne ended up cantering around that arena with the five of the eight riders who were capable of riding him so, when Liz was back on him he was tired and behave beautifully. 

The way this was done was such that it did not make the owner feel as if she was useless on her own pony. Everyone had ridden different ponies and Champagne had had a darn hard work out to steady him up. 

At the end of the week Lizzy was jumping him around a set of show jumps in the open field well under control. Her confidence was on a high, she was laughing and smiling and most of all she was joining in with the other children rather than being on her own a lot.

I awarded her the cup for the 'Most Improved Rider' She earned it. I have a lovely picture on my wall of her face when it was announced at the prize giving. Later her mother came to me and told me the previous year Liz had not wanted to attend after the first day. This time she was awake early and wanted to return early. 

That is good teaching, to encourage and have the ability to sort out problems so that a rider is confident they can deal with a situation and the horses all improve with the way they are going.


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## TBforever

does this mean if someone doesnt know how to ride they can be good trainers?


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## Foxhunter

TBforever said:


> does this mean if someone doesnt know how to ride they can be good trainers?


Someone on the ground can be a big help. They need not be qualified nor have riding abilities *but* they will have to have seen the person they are trying to help have instruction and understand what they are trying to achieve. They would not be able to actually teach.

Instructors should not be asking someone to do something they cannot do themselves. The exception to this is with the older teacher - they might well have given up competing or even riding, but they know what is wanted and how to achieve it.


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## TBforever

i was just wondering as someone said only cos a a person can ride doesnt mean they can teach so thought id throw in the oposite hehe


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## jaydee

*Foxhunter* your description of the 'way things were' reminded me so much of how the riding schools were when I was young and even though I had my own ponies I used to spend my time hanging out at a local one as a teenager often walking for miles a day leading beginners on ponies, something a lot of young people did in return for a free ride themselves
It probably sounds very non H&S and unprofessional now but the method produced some excellent capable riders that went to on to higher things.


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## Foxhunter

Another thing a good instructor must understand is that not all people riding want to be competitive riders. Many just want to be comfortable on a horse and enjoy trail riding. This doesn't mean that they should not be encouraged to ride well, just that they will not want to be 'refined'


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## ariatgirl2008

I just paid over 2k for training, just to get my gelding back after 6 months acting like he'd never had a bit in his mouth..His teeth were checked, they are fine. Conveniently the trainer will not return my messages, so make sure the trainer of choice is one that is super reputable.


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## Mochachino

Or local so you can pop by and check in.


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## tailskidwest

Interesting reading ..... and exactly why I started a new riding instruction business this spring! I have experienced the broad spectrum of trainers, coaches, and instructors over the last 10 to 12 years. Some were good with a horse, some with people, seldom with both. There are some out there and I was fortunate to find a couple. But over the last few years they are starting to retire. The "new" batch seems only interested in showing what they can do and having the horse owner be their "annuity" providing them with a great horse, paying their bills and having the trainer show it for them.

Be it starting colts or finishing saddle horses, I found the basics were going by the boards and folks were ending up with either "one trick ponies" or unsafe mounts. Hence, my instruction business.

I offer my business approach as some items for others to consider when looking for a trainer, coach, or instructor. I always invite prospective custormers out for a free demo. I will explain what my program is about and why it follows the program it does (Instructing people riding their own horse). Next I offer a discounted first lesson. That way I can give the person some idea of what to expect and how much time it will take to reach their goal. The instruction is non-discipline specific, its what all broke and safe horses should be capable of doing. I don't train horses, I instruct riders. We are all trainers, even if we only go feed the horses twice a day! If your trainer won't spend time teaching you, you just as well give the horse to the trainer ..... it will be cheaper in the long run! If you're attending a group lesson, look to see if everyone gets the same amount of instruction. I divide the group into subgroups and focus on the riders riding and what they need. The folks waiting are in the arena with horses lined up and watching the riders. They get to teach their horse to stand quietly and behave while waiting their turn. Is there any rhyme or reason to the instruction? My students are told day one, ride one, if I don't tell them why we are doing something to stop and ask why. 

Look at the facilities, is there any sence of pride in appearance? Are there places to park? Safely unload your horse? Are you expected to properly warm up your horse prior to starting the lesson? Are you coached on safety from the minute you start to unload your horse? Read the facility rules and see if they are actually inforced. 

I know this has turned into a bit of a rant, but having horses is expensive, and having an untrained horse is dangerous ...... do your homework and spend your money where you are getting what you want!


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## TurkishVan

I think it would be beneficial for most riders to learn from several different people. That way you get different perspectives. Also, it's tough to find an instructor that can teach you the bare beginnings, up to the advanced levels. 

The first person I ever took lessons from was my mother. It was a "learn on the fly" experience! Later on, I took lessons from a girl that didn't really know how to ride properly, but taught me the cues. I refined that with another instructor a few years later, although the lessons started to get monotonous, and I could tell that I'd reached her peak of knowledge because even after doing everything correctly, we didn't really move on. I got the feeling I was just another source of her steady lesson income. 

I stopped taking lessons for a long time, and just rode. When I finally decided to take some lessons for fun, I started looking around. The barn managers of the barn I boarded at gave lessons, but I avoided them, due to the fact that they did NOT enforce safety of the human or horse. I watched one little girl, in particular, who was born with fetal alcohol syndrome, brush a horse, then go UNDER the horse's belly to brush the other side. They saw my reaction and laughed and said, "Oh! She always does that! It's okay! The horse is dead broke!" All I could think of was, "Yeah, but someday she'll try to do that to one that ISN'T dead broke, and what happens then?"

Another instructor I had heard of was very loud, but really gave no good, clear instruction. I finally narrowed down my options to 2 instructors. It's really just best to see how these people act in and out of the arena. How do they act to their animals? To other people's animals? One instructor (the one I didn't pick) told people to "kick" her puppy "hard" if he tried to jump on them. That told me volumes about her character, and the way that she trained animals in general. Positive reinforcement is always better than negative, in my opinion. I've seen her riders really force a horse into a position that the horse isn't ready for, and as a consequence, the horses have gotten nasty or gone lame. 

My instructor does not show, as she does not like the atmosphere. But she went to a very nice horse school on the east coast, and taught there for 3 years after graduating. We focus more on improving the communication between horse and rider, and improving my riding skills. But that's what I've wanted, and what I've asked for. Someone that wants to advance through the levels quickly would not be pleased with her teaching style, as she makes sure you are completely competent before going forward. But improvement and gaining skill takes patience! 

I would definitely recommend that you pick out a few random lessons from each instructor you're interested in, and drop in to watch. See how the lessons are structured, how the rider responds to their comments, if their comments are derogatory, how well do they actually instruct, etc.


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## HighonEquine

Foxhunter said:


> Someone on the ground can be a big help. They need not be qualified nor have riding abilities *but* they will have to have seen the person they are trying to help have instruction and understand what they are trying to achieve. They would not be able to actually teach.
> 
> Instructors should not be asking someone to do something they cannot do themselves. The exception to this is with the older teacher - they might well have given up competing or even riding, but they know what is wanted and how to achieve it.


THIS is what I want so badly. I really stinks to know that you have so much to learn.. but no one to teach you except your horse and the mistakes you make. 

Your story about Lizzy made me smile.. and gave me goose bumps! She is a lucky girl! Ahh.. Poo.. I quoted the wrong post.


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## RMHbaby

The worst instructor I ever had the 'pleasure' of working with, was an incredible horseperson in many ways. She was quite knowledgeable and had a very impressive show record. 
Unfortunately, she was one of the most miserable people I have ever met. She was extremely rough with the horses. She was quick to anger and quick to react. Thought nothing of hitting or kicking a horse for very minor problems (i.e., one horse rested his foot when she was trying to put on polos). She admitted on multiple occasions, that she didn't like horses at all...and if she wasn't able to make money off them, she wouldn't have any at all (she was a dealer who dealt with high end performance horses). She was very cheap and despite the fact boarders were paying nearly $500/month, she would give everyone around 4 flakes of hay a day and would ask for more money if a horse required more than that.
If that wasn't enough, she was nasty to people. She would say the rudest and cruelest of things and do incredibly mean things. For example, she sold an expensive horse to a friend. She admitted that she wanted the woman (a 60+ year old lady who had just started riding) to get hurt, then sell the horse back to her at a reduced rate so she could make money. One day she looked at me and honestly said "You know, you would be really pretty if you had plastic surgery". I just laughed. 

However, I left soon after that. I learned a lot of from her. Some things to do. Some things never to do. I certainly don't regret going there and learning, but when I started leaving the barn with more stress then I arrived there with, then it was time to move on. Both myself and my mare are much, much happier at another barn.


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## Foxhunter

It is important that people take lessons from all sorts of instructors as they get more experienced.
Majority of the 'good old boys (and girls)' that had been there and done that, learned the hard way, are long dead. I have not yet seen a good instructor nowadays of their ilk. This is probably a good thing because they were tough in a way that would not be accepted nowadays!
The thing about them is that they had all proven themselves in the competition field and trained their own horses. If they were tough on their pupils then they were tougher on themselves. 

The thing about them was that they had the answers, not all were conventional, but they worked. This was from their own experiences and they were great if you were prepared to work hard, stand up to their often rude comments and most of all keep trying. They were encouraging once you had proved you wanted to learn. 
These people were taking more advanced riders not novices.

I remember them all with a great fondness. I well recall riding on a course with one of my favourites, **** Stillwell. The horse I was riding was rather lazy. He was green, had a lot of ability but was hard work. We were trotting on a circle, going over three trotting poles, then a one stride double, not vey high, about 2' 6". The horse was going this but I was having to really ride him. I was told to stop riding him and let him carry himself. We went over the poles carelessly and he hit the pole of the first fence, tripped, went down on his knees and nose, **** was standing there and cracked the horse on the backside, shooting him up and over the second fence! I was still on top, still had both feet in the stirrups! **** was shouting out "Lovely, lovely! Bring him straight round!" That horse was a different animal after that - he stopped being blase about the fences and certainly carried himself over fences after that.
He was a lot more mellow as he aged! 

I am lucky in that I have never known anyone like the one mentioned above. I do not care how good they are, someone with morals like that is not worth knowing.


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## jaydee

Foxhunter said:


> It is important that people take lessons from all sorts of instructors as they get more experienced.
> Majority of the 'good old boys (and girls)' that had been there and done that, learned the hard way, are long dead. I have not yet seen a good instructor nowadays of their ilk. This is probably a good thing because they were tough in a way that would not be accepted nowadays!
> The thing about them is that they had all proven themselves in the competition field and trained their own horses. If they were tough on their pupils then they were tougher on themselves.
> 
> The thing about them was that they had the answers, not all were conventional, but they worked. This was from their own experiences and they were great if you were prepared to work hard, stand up to their often rude comments and most of all keep trying. They were encouraging once you had proved you wanted to learn.
> These people were taking more advanced riders not novices.
> 
> *I remember them all with a great fondness. I well recall riding on a course with one of my favourites, **** Stillwell*. The horse I was riding was rather lazy. He was green, had a lot of ability but was hard work. We were trotting on a circle, going over three trotting poles, then a one stride double, not vey high, about 2' 6". The horse was going this but I was having to really ride him. I was told to stop riding him and let him carry himself. We went over the poles carelessly and he hit the pole of the first fence, tripped, went down on his knees and nose, **** was standing there and cracked the horse on the backside, shooting him up and over the second fence! I was still on top, still had both feet in the stirrups! **** was shouting out "Lovely, lovely! Bring him straight round!" That horse was a different animal after that - he stopped being blase about the fences and certainly carried himself over fences after that.
> He was a lot more mellow as he aged!
> 
> I am lucky in that I have never known anyone like the one mentioned above. I do not care how good they are, someone with morals like that is not worth knowing.


 **** Stillwell once brought a wealthy woman from Greece to try a young horse my boss was selling that I'd done very basic jumping, XCountry & dressage with. I rode the mare first and then the woman got on and it was very obvious that she was only used to quiet, experienced push button horses. Annie dumped her very quickly as if to make a statement and we felt so embarrassed but he told his client straight that it was entirely her own fault and she wasn't ready for a green horse. He was so well respected she accepted the criticism without question and he then bought the mares younger sister himself which really pleased me because she had a personality I didn't really get on with!!!


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## Hunterjumper7654

I think going to local tack shop or feed stores and asking opinions of trainers in the area and if you do find one you like go watch a lesson or two, sit down and talk to the trainer and ask lots of questions, get too know them and make a choice from there. That is how I found my first trainer and the one I am currently with. The only reason I switched was because I ended having to pay for everything on my own and it was very pricey but I still have a friendly relationship with my first trainer and am welcome back for a haul in lesson anytime.


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## goingnowhere1

I'll have to put my two cents in (aka my lesson stories)
My first instructor focused on having fun and enjoying the basics of horsemanship. I cantered and did crossrails within a year of riding. Now I look back and I realize she didn't teach me form or seat, but she taught me horsemanship. I was always placed with dead horses, so to speak.
My second instructor was a nice young lady, she taught me form well enough that I quickly placed in the top three in my first horse show. The horses were nice hunter mounts. She got fired and the BO's daughter took over, she was a nutcase. I was placed on her advanced jumper (and got bucked off) and with an ill trained hunter that I hated. I also now realize that she rode completely front to back.
The next was an avid trashy lesson barn with too many instructors being fired and hired to count. The horses were green, lame, thin, and pathetic. None of the instructors knew what they were doing. The one that did, got fired. I am now told that the BO actually made the instructors do some stuff, some BAD stuff. So I'd now say that it's not always the instructor's fault if they are "bad" it might be an outside source.
The next place was similar to the last, but the instructors were more knowledgable. The horses;however, were overworked. But they did teach me more back to front riding and that's when I started dressage.
Kady was the best trainer I could of hoped for. She knew how to train and ride, and she was my best friend. She understood how sensitive I am and worked around that. She taught me how to really ride dressage. She is the basis of how I ride now. She knew good horses I should ride, and really did a lot for me. Sadly, she was young and her family problems got in the way of us. I also think some of her young ness made her not notice some stuff of my riding till I was better at it.
Then I rode and worked for a lady who know everything that she's doing, but she's really mean. You have to do exactly what she says or you'd be really sad, but I think she helped me realize exactly what my seat can do, and she built my confidence because I was getting yelled at, but I honestly wouldn't long term pay for someone who yells at me the whole lesson, even if they are the best.
Now, I'm with an amazing rider, but we don't click. She never has time to answer questions, and she seems to think of her clients as "just another." She tries to be helpful, but she does stuff a different way, and I just don't get it. I don't think I've learned a thing from her in three months. I've adapted to her way of dressage, but besides that my horse is getting stronger, I don't see a different in myself. She's an amazing rider, but I might quit with her because we don't get each other.


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## Foxhunter

jaydee said:


> **** Stillwell once brought a wealthy woman from Greece to try a young horse my boss was selling that I'd done very basic jumping, XCountry & dressage with. I rode the mare first and then the woman got on and it was very obvious that she was only used to quiet, experienced push button horses. Annie dumped her very quickly as if to make a statement and we felt so embarrassed but he told his client straight that it was entirely her own fault and she wasn't ready for a green horse. He was so well respected she accepted the criticism without question and he then bought the mares younger sister himself which really pleased me because she had a personality I didn't really get on with!!!


Heavens he was a tyrant in his hey day!

He would have a long bamboo pole about 3" in diameter and 12' long. The end was split for about 6' and if a rider was nervy about jumping a fence or the rider was holding them back he would rattle it - brother, did those horses move forward when they heard that.

There were so many good instructors back then. Eddie Goldman, Chris Collins at Porlock were others.


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## my2geldings

Cruiser said:


> Instructors that can ride really well doesn't mean they can teach. Instructors that can't ride (due to health, injury etc) doesn't mean they are no good.


...and instructors who can teach, doesnt mean they can ride. 

We have a local "trainer" who has a huge list of 2 students(from the same family might I add), and they are beginner riders. She can't teach more than basics, nor can she train those horses. She has another rider/boarder at the barn do all the riding and training for her if any problems arise. She always makes excuses why she isnt the one to ride, and she will bad mouth anyone who helps her in the attempt to make herself look better.

Luckily she's a nobody, and no one knows who she is. I have no respect for people like that, and no one has respect for her anyways.


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## Druydess

Foxhunter said:


> Another thing a good instructor must understand is that not all people riding want to be competitive riders. Many just want to be comfortable on a horse and enjoy trail riding. This doesn't mean that they should not be encouraged to ride well, just that they will not want to be 'refined'


Very true.. Over the years, I've heard catty comments about myself and others "not riding correctly" from others whose opinions were not asked for.. and I have NO interest in show riding or advanced level riding. I can train and start a horse under saddle, get them going and respectful, but I really have zero interest in being a competitive rider. A pleasure mount is my goal and honestly, most of the time I prefer spending time with them on the ground.
Instructors need to know the difference as to what the client's goals and expectations are. A good instructor is worth their weight in gold. :wink:


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## ~*~anebel~*~

Now that I am teaching actively as a business, I am seeing the whole other side to this whole thing. It really does take a lot of gusto for someone to get in front of some riders and start teaching. I wake up in a cold sweat from bad dreams about causing someone issues with their horse or not choosing the right exercises and what have you. My first few months I though I was going to die from anxiety!! But now I'm starting to trust myself a bit more and my students being happy is a great reminder too, especially when I start to doubt myself.
I like watching lessons and thinking "What would I do with that horse and rider" and seeing what the coach does do, and what the outcome is. I also really like watching lessons of my own students with my coach and that awesome moment when she picks an exercise we've done before, or chooses to do a new movement and I've already gone through the basics with that student and she is ready to ride through it. And conversely, when she picks up on something that I have not noticed, or overlooked and not corrected enough, and the change in the horse and rider with that small correction.

My longest student who came to me with a horse that would bolt when she put her leg on and who was a nervous bit chomper, calmly went through a baby flying changes exercise last week. I think the both of us were cheering and the horse thought we had lost our marbles being so excited that he did a change.

But, I have lost a few on the way. To me, I'm not offended, it does not reflect on the rider or the horse, just that the chemistry between all 3 did not work out. In the future, should any of them want to lesson with me, I would not have a grudge, nor if they rode with anyone else.
I myself have ridden and not ridden with so many people, and am friendly with them, that I know it is a fact of life that riders move on.


We have all, however, had our share of bad instructors!! Most instructors that I've moved on from are not bad, and were very good and valuable at the time. One in particular was actually, very, very bad. Mean to the horses and meaner to her students... I am so glad to be riding with the coach I am with now. Such a well of knowledge (it really is endless), and pushes everyone at the right speed. If I have to ride something twice, I get the look or a "you can ride that better". And we always end up laughing about something - usually baby horse antics


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## Gossip

*My experience...*



Fulford15 said:


> Very true, I know many certified coaches that are not a professional coach. I don't know about the USA, but Equine Canada has very good programs for coaching certification and it is a lot more difficult in this day and age to get certified, you can't just be anyone from boo. I am just saying I would _trust _a certified coach more as they would have the needed Insurance to be coaching at shows or show barns, etc.. at least here in Canada. I am speaking from a wide range of coaches, obviously there will always be "that one or few" that have bad reputations. The horse world is full of gossip, and the horse communitys I have been in, you know who to trust.


Sadly in my community here in the US, I've found it harder to find people to trust. I've boarded my horses at about 5 places until I've finally rented a farm, and met several trainers who didn't take it so lightly when I told them I no longer wanted their services. My first one was the worst, and she tried to steal my horse so we had to have a deputy come and resolve the issue. Then she stole our saddle, and we never got it back. She gave us a decoy and since the saddle was new I couldn't yet tell one saddle from the other. They were very similar. Only one was a lot cheaper! This lady has been banned from several showgrounds, she's sold her farm and hopefully gotten all her horses confiscated. I've heard that without any money to feed her horses, half feral cats and herd of 15 corgis, they were all very skinny. This was one experience you should hope you never get.


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## oats

My first instructor was just very young and I think she was very good naturally and thus she couldnt teach me they whys & hows, only the mechanical "dos" if that makes any sense. 

After 20 years away from horses, I started taking lessons at a local barn that was dressage focused and very busy. My experience there was REALLY weird and involved a bunch of instructors who obviously werent aligned very well about expectations.

They placed me with the youngest trainer who was more hunter-jumper. Her method was throwing me on an old grand prix horse and tryingt to get me to "feel" the right way he was moving. I really liked her, but she was often late to lessons everyday. I didnt mind too much, but I had been told it was my job to be tacked up with horse warmed up at lesson start time. So I would be in the arena riding before she got there, since she was often late. Nobody ever said anything, so I figured it was okay.

One day, I messed up and was warming up on a weekend she was offsite at a show, as-I had lost track of what week it was (I felt stupid and flaky). The head trainer sent a boarder down to tell me that she was not there, but that I should practice my flatwork anyways since it was a beautiful day and I was already warmed up. I thought this was a bit odd, but figured I would pay the fee for a ride on a school horse, so begin doing some work. 

Then the third trainer came down and started yelling at me to get off the horse, as I should never have been riding it since my instructor wasnt there and yelling at me that I should not be rding the horse at all if she was not on premises. I was like WTF is going on here???

I explained what the boarder had said-it turned out the head trainer had not said I should ride the horse,-it was the boarder who had inserted that suggestion, and the head trainer was totally upset I was riding the schooling horse. What was most annoying was the tone the second teacher took-like she was lecturing a child.

Perhaps I have spent too much time in the business world, but the whole thing was so unprofessional, unorganized and poorly done that I left and didnt go back, even though I really liked the first instructor. I was paying too much money to be treated like a "bad little girl" when they are the ones who are dont have thier sh*t together. 

I looked around in my area and found a little stable out in the boonies and started taking lessons there from a lady who isnt at all well known. She has pointed out a couple of things in particular about how I ride that have helped me make huge leaps in understanding what is correct. 

When I told her this, she said that she wasnt naturally a good rider and had to figure stuff out the hard way herself-thus it makes it easier to explain it to other people when she is teaching. Right now she doesnt have a lot of schooling horses, so I ride this slightly crazed horse who never really was finished out after being raced. We are learning a lot of stuff together, which is normally touted to be a bad thing, but it actually works okay in our scenario given where we are each at in our development.

She is, by far, the best instructor I have had.


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## Gossip

*I Agree*



oats said:


> Right now she doesnt have a lot of schooling horses, so I ride this slightly crazed horse who never really was finished out after being raced. We are learning a lot of stuff together, which is normally touted to be a bad thing, but it actually works okay in our scenario given where we are each at in our development.
> 
> She is, by far, the best instructor I have had.


For a lot of people the whole green horse, green rider thing doesn't really work, but I agree with you! It really helps your riding and bond with the horse to figure things out together, like me with my first horse, Gossip, who we got when he was only 4 and never broke to ride.


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## Druydess

Gossip said:


> Sadly in my community here in the US, I've found it harder to find people to trust. I've boarded my horses at about 5 places until I've finally rented a farm, and met several trainers who didn't take it so lightly when I told them I no longer wanted their services. My first one was the worst, and she tried to steal my horse so we had to have a deputy come and resolve the issue. Then she stole our saddle, and we never got it back. She gave us a decoy and since the saddle was new I couldn't yet tell one saddle from the other. They were very similar. Only one was a lot cheaper! This lady has been banned from several showgrounds, she's sold her farm and hopefully gotten all her horses confiscated. I've heard that without any money to feed her horses, half feral cats and herd of 15 corgis, they were all very skinny. This was one experience you should hope you never get.


It's so unfortunate you had this experience. Sadly, there are disreputable "instructors" out there. I, too, had an acquaintance that was never my instructor, but claimed to be a trainer. After watching her run her disrespectful horses around like their tails were on fire without any direction or communication, I realized she was clueless. She even has video up with an ancient gelding "rescue" that she put a very obese man on who was sawing on his face and you could tell the poor thing was in pain, hollowing his back and flipping his head with this huge newbie bouncing on his spine.. it was sickening. The worst part is she has young people on unsafe horses and they have no idea she is endangering them. Funny thing is.. now this "trainer" needs a trainer to train her mare, who tried to kill the new trainer.. :shock: People like this absolutely ruin perfectly good horses.
It all comes down to buyer beware; one must do their research to weed out the incompetents and the dangerous.


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## palogal

This is the summer of ignorant trainers in my area evidently.....

Now there's another idiot that stands up on top of the saddle and posts pictures of it. 

Don't fall for parlor tricks. 

Calmness is best demonstrated with a video of a small child riding, or some other display of practical skills - not standing up in the saddle like a moron.


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## jaydee

Druydess said:


> Very true.. Over the years, I've heard catty comments about myself and others "not riding correctly" from others whose opinions were not asked for.. and I have NO interest in show riding or advanced level riding. I can train and start a horse under saddle, get them going and respectful, but I really have zero interest in being a competitive rider. A pleasure mount is my goal and honestly, most of the time I prefer spending time with them on the ground.
> Instructors need to know the difference as to what the client's goals and expectations are. A good instructor is worth their weight in gold. :wink:


 A lot of college trained instructors do seem to put far too much emphasis on 'sitting pretty' in a 'posed position rather than actual effective riding
They get so rigid and tense because they're afraid their legs or hands might not be in the perfect place that they sit like stuffed dummies 
The old 'boys' (and girls) concentrated on getting the rider relaxed and balanced first so they felt at ease on the horse. With more and more older people taking up riding its good if instructors would realize that unlike children they don't have rubber joints and many come with existing complications like arthritis that even long time older riders start to feel the problems with as the years go by


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