# has anyone had a horse that does a 100% color change in the winter?



## FaceTheMusic (Dec 28, 2012)

I haven't seen any horses like that in person but I have heard of a few. It's usually the ones that already have really cool coats, that change colors. I'm sure one of the genetics gurus on here can tell you why he does that. But I would love to see some pictures of him!


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

PICTURES hehehe I wanna see


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

I am not sure how to post photos i am new
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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

Critter sitter said:


> PICTURES hehehe I wanna see


He is beautiful in the summer is a dunskin and in winter turns his weird gray color....so i am at a loss...
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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

He looks like a gray and white blue eyed paint in winter and summer is the light dunskin paint with blue eyes and chocolate tail/mane...even my landlord was like oh you got rid of your dunskin for a gray/white last winter...why?? Told her it was same horse...lol she always laughs...
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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

I have facebook if you would like to possibly see him that way...not sure how to post photos
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## FaceTheMusic (Dec 28, 2012)

To post pictures just right click on the (online) image and click copy image location and then when you go to reply just click the little picture with the mountains and paste the link there.


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

Ok i think i did this right  i posted an album with some of my 8 horses on it. So you can see the color changes i am talking about with my paint colt Blue Moon.


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

FaceTheMusic said:


> To post pictures just right click on the (online) image and click copy image location and then when you go to reply just click the little picture with the mountains and paste the link there.


If i post an album can you view the photos there? I am new to this...lol i got frustrated with my pc so got back on cell it is easier to reply...hehe
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## FaceTheMusic (Dec 28, 2012)

Wow, he does change colors a lot! haha Lucky you, he's like 3 horses in one! He's really cute.


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

Critter sitter said:


> PICTURES hehehe I wanna see


I made an album on horse forum of a few of my 8 horses..not sure if you will be able to view them, if not let me know i will figure out how like FaceTheMusic told me...
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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

FaceTheMusic said:


> Wow, he does change colors a lot! haha Lucky you, he's like 3 horses in one! He's really cute.


You were able to see the album? Yeah i did it right 
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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

Thank you!
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## FaceTheMusic (Dec 28, 2012)

SouthernPanda said:


> You were able to see the album? Yeah i did it right
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


haha Yep!


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Our Nokota / Welsh mare we had used to do that. 

In the winter, she would look black (especially from a distance), because her grey color turned so dark.

When she shed off in the spring, the dark hairs turned bleach white, and then shed off. 

In the summer (her "normal" color maybe? haha) she was a nice grey with black points, and even had just a hint of red hairs that would grow into her coat. 

In the fall, she'd start to turn the dark, dark grey and lose the red. 


I don't think I have a photo from every season, but here's what I got:

This was about in August a couple years ago. This was her "normal" color. You don't really see the red much, unless you are up close to her and can see the individual hairs. 











Another summer photo: (she is on the far left, of course)











Here's a winter picture (we didn't have any snow that year, really). She is on the right, of course. 











And another winter pictures. This was in January or so:














I couldn't find a picture of her from the spring. But her changing to white was always so dramatic! A nice sign of spring though .... you knew the horses were shedding when she turned white!!


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

SouthernPanda said:


> He is beautiful in the summer is a dunskin and in winter turns his weird gray color....so i am at a loss...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


wow i just went and looked he is gorgeous as are all of your horses.. i love baldys


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

If that is his sire and dam in there, he can't be tovero as neither sire nor dam carry tobiano. Are you 100% sure that is his sire? 

Colorwise I'm leaning towards a smokey grulla (black + dun + cream) which would explain his color change. More so if he is one that is prone to sunfading. 

Also, tovero is an outdated term that means tobiano with another pattern we can't bother to name.


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

Wow beautiful horse! Horses! the one of her on the left with the bay in the middle and sorrel on the right..wow the bay looks like my TB and the right one looks like my fat girl Lucy girl in winter..thank you for sharing the photos i love seeing other peoples horses and we live in Minot ND so ours get all shaggy and so its nice to see somewhat slick horses...hehe...not wooley ******s....i posted an album online of a few of my 8 i also have another mare coming in she is a white twh mare hopefully soon...almost all of my horses are rescues my TB and one of my qh mares isn't other than that the rest or either rescues or foals of rescue mares...


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

beau159 - That's pretty typical seasonal color change for a roan. The red you were seeing in the summer was/is sunfading. Question though... Do you have a recent picture of her? I'm wondering if she is grey on top of the roan..


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

Wow i am in ND how are you liking this wonderful -45* weather? my horses do not seem to mind we did square bales so they have been inside the barn so far but next week are getting round bales and surprise they get to eat outside now...lol


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## riddlemethis (Jun 3, 2008)

IMO The horse isn't "tovero" at all, but rather Homozygous Splash White.


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## cowgirl4753 (Aug 3, 2012)

Can someone post the OP's pics here? My phone wont let me view her album, and he sounds a lot like my guy so was curious. Thanks! ;-)
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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

SouthernPanda said:


> Wow i am in ND how are you liking this wonderful -45* weather? my horses do not seem to mind we did square bales so they have been inside the barn so far but next week are getting round bales and surprise they get to eat outside now...lol


:lol: Mine are outside 24/7.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Sire 









Dam









Colt in question -


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

nope 100& sure that is his sire and he also sired 3 other foals 2 were identical to blue and one was a smokey buckskin filly .....


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

i had a dna done on the sire/dam and blue he is a double dilute but i couldn't get an answer as to why he does this color change he isn't a grulla at all and is definately a dunskin...was told he was a tovero dunskin according to his dna his dam's sire was a buttermilk buckskin and dam was a chocolate point dun like kota just alot darker. The sire tested out as a double dilute as well and with him being a warmblood they told me that he is a carrier of the dilute gene as well...i know nothing of the breeding stuff so i was just going on by what was told to me from the bloodwork done.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

NdAppy said:


> beau159 - That's pretty typical seasonal color change for a roan. The red you were seeing in the summer was/is sunfading. Question though... Do you have a recent picture of her? I'm wondering if she is grey on top of the roan..


She was registered as a grey (Misty is 3/4 Nokota and 1/4 Welsh), although her Nokota daddy was a red roan .... I think. I don't have her papers in front of me, but if my memory serves me correct. Her mamma (who we had for about 10 years) was a dark dappled chestnut, 1/2 Nokota and 1/2 Welsh. I am not a color expert so I'm probably not describing that right. 

This is a very old photo, when Misty (the grey in question) was a foal. Her white as a baby is pretty close to what she looked like the spring, with darker roots of course. Her mamma is the dark one next to her on the left of the photo.












The most recent photo I have was the first photo I posted. It was from August 24, 2011 and we sold her shortly after that at the ripe ol' age of 18 to a family with 8 kids that were going to ride her lots! (and learn lots from her)

This one is from the same day, just a different photo.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Can you post a copy of the DNA test? 

Sire is not a double dilute.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

SouthernPanda said:


> Wow beautiful horse! Horses! the one of her on the left with the bay in the middle and sorrel on the right..wow the bay looks like my TB and the right one looks like my fat girl Lucy girl in winter..thank you for sharing the photos i love seeing other peoples horses and *we live in Minot ND* so ours get all shaggy and so its nice to see somewhat slick horses...hehe...not wooley ******s....i posted an album online of a few of my 8 i also have another mare coming in she is a white twh mare hopefully soon...almost all of my horses are rescues my TB and one of my qh mares isn't other than that the rest or either rescues or foals of rescue mares...


Well I am just to the south of you in Mandan. 

I'm liking this week in the 30's much better than last week's nastiness cold, but that's what we get for living here. :wink:

And my horses are outside 24/7 as well. They've got windbreak, free-choice hay, pasture access, and water. They handle it fine.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Beau - if neither parent were grey then she isn't grey. She looks like an extreme roan, where it ends up on the face as well.


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

i am only going by the lab and also had him looked at by a lady who breeds paints she told me he is a rare color and very unusual..the pictures do not do him justice he was more interested in eating than allowing me to take his photo...lol his dam is also really light as well being here in nd my guys stay darker a little longer and so by end of june mid july they are the color they stay til winter again...my guys do not get sunbleached they stay in most days in the trees and out in pasture at night so very little bleaching out...


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Oh and the colt isn't a double dilute either.


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

this was done in march 2011..i do not have it anymore i really only did it to find out what breed of horse the sire was for temperment wasn't for breeding...he is alot lighter as well he is a palomino undercoat with chocolate brown over with brown snowflake dapples on his palomino...gorgeous boy..i really do not care i just went by what they told me and wss like ok this is all new to me, he was a rescue along with my dun mare that was in foal to him as well as 2 other mares i was more curious as to why the foal had such a drastic color change. I am not trying to start an argument was just asking if it was normal to me i love them all whether they are green with pruple pokka dots and blue manes and tails was just because this was my first foal and i did not know what the sire was because he did not look qh like the dam...he was serverly abused so i only wanted to see if the foals temperament would be hot or mild and they told em the other stuff which at the time meant foreign to me...i was like i said just asking the question if it was normal for a color change in a horse like that....no offense


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

hey it is suppose to be 32* i think tomorrow YEAH! tshirts/shorts weather...we came from florida to here what a shock but we got broken in very quickly winter 2010...lol our horses are in Velva 42 miles away from us we live on the military base in Minot so every other day we go out and check on everyone fill buckets, treats and do warm mash so they are inside of a huge barn with a lean to on the outside to block the wind/cold/snow...they are loving life now...most of mine as i said were rescues so they were from this area Rugby so they are used to being out in the pasture no cover nothing for a very long time and they are living life...we are actually heading that way hopefully friday or sat to go shopping if not then for valentines day hubby wants to come down to bismarck for dinner...will be our early 12 yr anniversary dinner since he has to work on our actual anniversary...


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Hmmm. How long have you guys been on base? Wondering if your husband and mine know each other. I sent you a PM by the way.


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## CCH (Jan 23, 2011)

Southern Panda - I'm in Minot.

your colt is very interesting. I will defer to NdAppy on most color issues, but he is definitely Splash overo, not tobiano.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

IMO, he's a grullo splash. He's definitely not "tovero" because he doesn't have tobiano. That white is caused by splash. 

And he strikes me more as grullo or smoky grullo than anything. Not all of them are the bluey-silver color, many are more of a brown shade. 

Also, is Velva really 42 miles from the AFB? 
ETA: Also from Minot, but in Fargo currently.


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## CCH (Jan 23, 2011)

Poseidon said:


> Also, is Velva really 42 miles from the AFB?
> ETA: Also from Minot, but in Fargo currently.


It's all of 40. Living on the north side of town, you kind of forget that the base is 8+ miles out and then add 2 miles of getting through Minot and yeah it is a ways.


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

Yes ma'am it is one way...lol can drive it with my eyes closed...been doing it since april 1st 2011...lol mine are aways off the road as well if i can get down hwy 2 its only 39 miles...lol but most times the road is bad especially in winter then in summer it is nothing but crop fields so no go with farm equip so i just go my normal way...


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

my horses are approx 5 miles i think off the highway i dont even count anymore i just do auto pilot...lol


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

ah ok we came through fargo on our way from eglin afb fl to minot lol 2010


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

they said in both sides mostly palomino, sorrel, duns, buckskins, white (?) lighter colored horses with exception of sires side was 3 pssible chocolates if that means anything or they tried to explain it dna typing for dummies...lol as i said i did not do it for anything other than the sire looks like a freakin moose and i knew he was not qh so wanted to know the breed for the foals temperament


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

NdAppy said:


> Sire
> 
> 
> 
> ...


WOW!!!! :shock: He is remarkable!!! So cool!!! I'd say he has some splash going on, along with the wild color changes!!


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Southern he is very pretty we need more pictures!!!! I'm agreeing with NDappy kinda think smokey cream grulla with loud splash! And you poor North Dakota people with your 30 degree weather while I'm enjoying beautiful 60 degree weather in Oklahoma. Hehe


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

I have a dunskin and this is how much he changed summer to winter. As you can see not a whole lot of color change there. So I think Mr. Blue is something different than a dunskin.


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

I have to ask where in FL did you live?? I grew up near Tampa and now live in Nebraska


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

I am as i said before going on what a lady who breeds paints for a living told me she said only thing he could be is a dunskin. She said he was not a grulla the pics are not great of him he is very very pale like your boy but with this color changing thing going on even she told me i don't know never had a horse do this before....lol even my vet says he is a dunskin..heck if i know but oh well he is gorgeous and even as a 2 1/2 yr old stud he is just such a sweetheart and just so laid back like his dam...he is just a big pushover and i am proud i have done so well with him so far with him being my first foal and a stud at that. My husband and everyone of our friends imprinted on him as much as we could and i think that is why he is a sweetie now...no matter what color he is when he gets older he will still be my handsome little 18lb foal that almost didn't make it and to have him be healthy and even with this weird color changing thing going on i will love him forever and i cherish him even more because it makes rare and unique...just cannot wait til he is full grown to see what color he decides to be...lol


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

really? when we came from Okinawa Japan back to the states we chose to come to MacDill because my husband loves the Bucs! go figure...lol if we do not end up going to AZ we will end up going back to either crestview fl or back to tampa..have a friend in Lutz who is my horsey buddy so can get more loving for my horses...How do you like OK?


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

First we get a purple horse and now a chameleon horse!
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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

We are here in ND til sept 2014 :-( then we are outta here to where i told my husband i do not care as long as it does not get below -20* more than a week for a winter and no more than 25 mph wind no more than 2 months of the year and we have 4 seasons i will settle for 3 just not 7/8 months of winter...lol...its weird but all of my horses are extremely shiny i do not give any suppliments and inthe summer i do not grain whatsoever...we have a grain plant over a ways from my guys and the wind blows the oil down towards them so they always have very soft shiny hair even in winter their wooley hair is like velvet..is crazy....it will be spring here soon enough i cannot wait...drooling for 45*...bikini time...hehe


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

i love nebraska .. but about now I wish for spring to hurry!!!!! hehehe.. my whole family lives in FL so I have plenty to visit there...


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Well in Oklahoma it can't decide what the weather wants to be. It can be snowing one day and 60 degrees the next day. Here in the past couple of weeks it's snowed, its been freezing cold with high's in the 30's and this week we get 60's. It was 70 the other day then it rained and went down to the 40's so eastern Oklahoma never know if it want to be in winter or spring. If you don't like the weather in Oklahoma wait five minutes then go back outside


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

Haha! that is how it is in Guam....you go outside it's raining so you go back in and put clothes on then go back out and sun is out all hot and shining...lol


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

On the dunskin thing. If he was a true dunskin he wouldn't true the slate color in the winter. That is what is indicating black based with no agouti. Turning as light and creamy as he does is indicating that he does sun fade (and with some horses it really doesn't take much to sun fade them) and the tone of the colored part of his coat also indicates cream. 

What are your plans for him btw? I'm guessing you have him gelded since he is a rescue and a grade?


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Sometimes when I am reading some posts in the genetics/color forum, I just hum this song OVER AND OVER. Words to live by.............


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

I'm thinking he's brown based dunskin... technically a "double dilute" as dun and cream are both dilutions, though most people use "double dilute" specifically for double cream dilutes. I can't see the dun markings in the photos, but I believe you if you say they're there or he's tested positive for dun  The sire looks to be a brown buckskin. Brown based horses change quite a bit seasonally.

I also think he's splash- not tobiano. And he's not a medicine hat- the "hat" has to be surrounded by white, but his is connected to the color on the neck.

He's definitely a unique colored horse and very pretty.


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

verona1016 said:


> I'm thinking he's brown based dunskin... technically a "double dilute" as dun and cream are both dilutions, though most people use "double dilute" specifically for double cream dilutes. I can't see the dun markings in the photos, but I believe you if you say they're there or he's tested positive for dun  The sire looks to be a brown buckskin. Brown based horses change quite a bit seasonally.
> 
> I also think he's splash- not tobiano. And he's not a medicine hat- the "hat" has to be surrounded by white, but his is connected to the color on the neck.
> 
> He's definitely a unique colored horse and very pretty.


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

I am honestly not sure what he is i have been told so many things...lol he has a light dorsal stripe as well....lol most of those pics are in winter or coming out so they are alot darker...the sire his undercoat of palomino color really lightens up and the chocolate is not as over powering...if you have fb do a private msg and i can give my name so you can see the other photos of them...yes he is definately different...in my album i think i posted a photo of blue standing near a round steel fencing and green water buckets....you can see his snowflake dapples he is getting them like his sire now...im at a loss of what color so i will just enjoy him even as a stud he is my sweetheart and just very easy going and laid back like his sire/dam...i will not regret that he isn't acting like a hormone crazy teenager but just really mellow...lol if you do the private message i can give you the fb info and see other photos of his sire lighter and the dorsal stripe...its not dark like his dam but there...lol...so he is just considered bald faced or piebald...i just am trying to figure out what to even describe him as not to make him this big special deal just would like to kinda put a name to what he is...lol
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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

verona1016 said:


> I'm thinking he's brown based dunskin... technically a "double dilute" as dun and cream are both dilutions, though most people use "double dilute" specifically for double cream dilutes. I can't see the dun markings in the photos, but I believe you if you say they're there or he's tested positive for dun  The sire looks to be a brown buckskin. Brown based horses change quite a bit seasonally.
> 
> I also think he's splash- not tobiano. And he's not a medicine hat- the "hat" has to be surrounded by white, but his is connected to the color on the neck.
> 
> He's definitely a unique colored horse and very pretty.


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

SouthernPanda said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you that explains alot for his sires color change from summer to winter. It is almost like his colors reverse. If that sounds right! Lol his palomino comes in underneath the chocolate or brown. He almost looks like a milk chocolate color....but he has gorgeous and huge snowflake dapples in the summer then his dapples almost look like little puffs on his sides in winter. I am not sure if i am even explaining it to where you understand....lol but blue is now getting those dapples for a few months then they disappear when his color comes in june/july like they just disappear but he has golden ones that are weird...
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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

SouthernPanda said:


> Thank you that explains alot for his sires color change from summer to winter. It is almost like his colors reverse. If that sounds right! Lol his palomino comes in underneath the chocolate or brown. He almost looks like a milk chocolate color....but he has gorgeous and huge snowflake dapples in the summer then his dapples almost look like little puffs on his sides in winter. I am not sure if i am even explaining it to where you understand....lol but blue is now getting those dapples for a few months then they disappear when his color comes in june/july like they just disappear but he has golden ones that are weird...
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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

Like blue goes gray colored...his sire turns really dark brown w/light accents....so i guess his weirdness comes from the warmblood side of the gene pool...lol
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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

His sire changes color so much because he is a brown-based buckskin. Most browns change color entirely with their winter coat, making winter the easiest time to distinguish a brown from a bay.


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## Kayella (Feb 11, 2012)

I have a brownskin colt, and I will definitely have to show you pictures whenever I get on my laptop. He was a beautiful creamy buckskin during the summer and is now a deep chocolatey brown. If his pinto markings weren't there, you'd swear he was a different horse.
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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

Kayella said:


> I have a brownskin colt, and I will definitely have to show you pictures whenever I get on my laptop. He was a beautiful creamy buckskin during the summer and is now a deep chocolatey brown. If his pinto markings weren't there, you'd swear he was a different horse.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

Ok yes please! Lol i feel like as a horse woman of 41 yrs i am should i say not understanding horse basic colors...i do but this unless you see him in person its hard to explain the colt/sire...hehe...i once more feel like its genetics 101 for Dummies and i am horse smart so to speak just do not really care about their color or if they are a double dilute..cream gene...buckskin until this silly boy just had or looked at them as my horses...my bay tb...dun qh mare...liver qh mare..sorrel qh mare now i go and throw a wrench into the dang wheel...hehe...but now i am very interested in learning the different colors and how the horses genetics are into play for each other....very interesting once i can get the basics then can go from there and maybe figure out my guys colors (s) lol
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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

SouthernPanda said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In saying he is a creamy almost like a pale palomino color right? If so that is my sires undercoat color in summer then brown takes over and just dapples of fuzzy hair is blonde and even his face hair changes...lol..my husband teases me and keeps telling me we just need to shave both of them bald and see what colors come back...we might get redheads if we are lucky...haha
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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

I'm not sure who you are quoting because your quoting on your phone isn't working, but if you're talking about the sire, his yellow color is caused by the cream gene. Only one copy of it though. He is brown + cream. Brown is very similar to bay in that they are caused by mutations of the same gene. However, brown horses change color between seasons far more than a bay.

And if he were a double dilute, he would be a rather off-white color. He is a single dilute, meaning he had a 50% chance of passing it onto the colt.


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## Kayella (Feb 11, 2012)

Henny is a brown based buckskin, rather than bay based. There's A for agouti, and At. A restricts agouti like a bay's markings. At is the agouti browns carry, which causes willy nilly things with their coats. Kinda funky how a little change on the agouti gene can cause such a huge phenotypical change. 

Henny's sire is a triple homozygous black tobiano stallion. Meaning he is EEaaTT. Henny's dam is a perlino mare who is EeAaCrCr. Now phenotypically, Henny is obviously E?AaCrcr. The A, however, is actually At. It's very difficult to see the difference in a brown based perlino and a bay based perlino. But it is very obvious to see the difference between a buckskin and a brownskin. Attached are pictures from birth to foal shed to winter coat which is now at 9 months. Really neat, huh?


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

Ok. I appreciate the information i am only trying to figure out the horses color and why he has such a drastic color change. His sire does the same thing but i understand your explanation but i am confused why the dna that was done said the colt was a double dilute. Not that it really matters i would just like to be able to give him an actual name for his coloring instead of the wrong one apparently i have been calling him which is dunskin and that was told to me by a vet and breeder of paints she said she couldn't be 100% sure. I want to be able to say he is example...a bald face dun paint with blue eyes...not i have no clue he keeps changing colors..lol..i get asked what he is all i can say is for sure he is a blue eyed paint trakehener/quarter horse cross...
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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

Kayella said:


> Henny is a brown based buckskin, rather than bay based. There's A for agouti, and At. A restricts agouti like a bay's markings. At is the agouti browns carry, which causes willy nilly things with their coats. Kinda funky how a little change on the agouti gene can cause such a huge phenotypical change.
> 
> Henny's sire is a triple homozygous black tobiano stallion. Meaning he is EEaaTT. Henny's dam is a perlino mare who is EeAaCrCr. Now phenotypically, Henny is obviously E?AaCrcr. The A, however, is actually At. It's very difficult to see the difference in a brown based perlino and a bay based perlino. But it is very obvious to see the difference between a buckskin and a brownskin. Attached are pictures from birth to foal shed to winter coat which is now at 9 months. Really neat, huh?


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

SouthernPanda said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I had the sire/dams dna done and they did the colts i do not have the dang papers anymore i just did it to see what the sires breed was but found out all the other stuff and to me it wasn't really important so i did not put it up for safe keeping...i should just do another one..ugh had i know this was going to come up later i would have...lol yes this is all extremely fascinating and that is why i want to try to figure out the dna of my 2 boys now...lol...i know the sire/dams pedigrees though...lol at least that is something and one less thing to worry about or wondering ...lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

What DNA tests were done and where?

He is for sure splash overo. Splash is what is causing all of his white and blue eyes. My vote on his base color goes to smoky grullo, which is black + dun + cream. 

If you wanted to be sure, you could test him for color. I would test him for agouti, dun, and cream, which would run you $75.


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## QuarterCarolina (Dec 16, 2012)

Sorry if I'm mistaken, I am very confused with this thread. The mare was in foal when you rescued them so it is possible she was exposed to a possible other stallion or even colt? And I'm also curious how did you do testing to find their pedigrees? (I could use that information) One of the parents has to carry overo to have produced that baby so if you're ever considering breeding I would definitely test for LWO. I also agree with the splash overo, and smoky grullo. My friend has a colt (now gelding) who did the exact same thing though he was more solid so it was easier to distinguish. Pretty baby, nothing wrong with a grullo . I would definitely do another test Specific for color, odd that they would test for color when determining breed (my mares testing cost me 25$ for each color selected and was a different lab than for her parentage verification)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

QuarterCarolina said:


> Sorry if I'm mistaken, I am very confused with this thread. The mare was in foal when you rescued them so it is possible she was exposed to a possible other stallion or even colt? And I'm also curious how did you do testing to find their pedigrees? (I could use that information) One of the parents has to carry overo to have produced that baby so if you're ever considering breeding I would definitely test for LWO. I also agree with the splash overo, and smoky grullo. My friend has a colt (now gelding) who did the exact same thing though he was more solid so it was easier to distinguish. Pretty baby, nothing wrong with a grullo . I would definitely do another test Specific for color, odd that they would test for color when determining breed (my mares testing cost me 25$ for each color selected and was a different lab than for her parentage verification)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

SouthernPanda said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have a friend who did all of it as a favor for me and yes it is 200% sure he is the sire to my colt. She did a dna typing at same time i did 2 vials per horse....i am new to this yes she was in foal but there was total of 3 mares in foal to him...a sorrel mare who had a gorgeous buttermilk bucksin with black/blue eyes and had the blue gray points (ears-muzzle-tail-mane and around feet) but had white rings around pasterns like her sire wolf....and my qh Lucy lost 2 twin colts in oct 26 2010 they were almost identical in markings to blue and even had the spot on the left side with crystal blue eyes...sadly i did not own her then and where she was at the left her out in a nasty blizzard no protection and she had the first foal ok but it froze to death and she had the second one hanging half out of her the next day she just didnt have enough strength to finish birthing it..the 2nd one was a tiny bit smaller but bother seemed very well formed and wouldve made it according to vet if the person had brought her in and provided shelter i took warm mash for her afraid she would foal and would need the extra nutrition but i could not do anything to help her...broke my heart...so out of 3 mares 3 colts were almost identical and the filly was just breathtaking..she looked like creamy coffee with gray/blue color on points and her eyes were just beautiful..she passed away at 6 weeks (another story for another time) i did not own the mare who foal her and could not save her either...sadly
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

SouthernPanda said:


> I have a friend who did all of it as a favor for me and yes it is 200% sure he is the sire to my colt. She did a dna typing at same time i did 2 vials per horse....i am new to this yes she was in foal but there was total of 3 mares in foal to him...a sorrel mare who had a gorgeous buttermilk bucksin with black/blue eyes and had the blue gray points (ears-muzzle-tail-mane and around feet) but had white rings around pasterns like her sire wolf....and my qh Lucy lost 2 twin colts in oct 26 2010 they were almost identical in markings to blue and even had the spot on the left side with crystal blue eyes...sadly i did not own her then and where she was at the left her out in a nasty blizzard no protection and she had the first foal ok but it froze to death and she had the second one hanging half out of her the next day she just didnt have enough strength to finish birthing it..the 2nd one was a tiny bit smaller but bother seemed very well formed and wouldve made it according to vet if the person had brought her in and provided shelter i took warm mash for her afraid she would foal and would need the extra nutrition but i could not do anything to help her...broke my heart...so out of 3 mares 3 colts were almost identical and the filly was just breathtaking..she looked like creamy coffee with gray/blue color on points and her eyes were just beautiful..she passed away at 6 weeks (another story for another time) i did not own the mare who foal her and could not save her either...sadly
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

SouthernPanda said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The sires pedigree is all foreign to me completely maybe you know these names....the trakehner side was polarmond, indus, fero, dampfross

Tb side was sir gallahad, man o war (heard of him) war admiral some others but those were the ones she said stood out....he was reg as a canadian trakehner...do you know any of these names? My friend told me that both horses had amazing bloodlines and sad they ended up being rescues but lucky that i found them...they were going to slaughter if no one had taken the 3 of them wolf/kota/lucy (+foal)....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## QuarterCarolina (Dec 16, 2012)

SouthernPanda said:


> The sires pedigree is all foreign to me completely maybe you know these names....the trakehner side was polarmond, indus, fero, dampfross
> 
> Tb side was sir gallahad, man o war (heard of him) war admiral some others but those were the ones she said stood out....he was reg as a canadian trakehner...do you know any of these names? My friend told me that both horses had amazing bloodlines and sad they ended up being rescues but lucky that i found them...they were going to slaughter if no one had taken the 3 of them wolf/kota/lucy (+foal)....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That helps with colors, but I'm a Quarter horse girl and know a little about paints now that I own a couple. you can google to research those lines, but for color Polarmond is a grey stallion, Indus a chestnut, Ferro a brown, Dampfross a chestnut, Sir Galahad a bay, Man O War a chestnut.

What color were his sire and dam? And also your mares?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

SouthernPanda said:


> I am honestly not sure what he is i have been told so many things...lol he has a light dorsal stripe as well....lol most of those pics are in winter or coming out so they are alot darker...the sire his undercoat of palomino color really lightens up and the chocolate is not as over powering...if you have fb do a private msg and i can give my name so you can see the other photos of them...yes he is definately different...in my album i think i posted a photo of blue standing near a round steel fencing and green water buckets....you can see his snowflake dapples he is getting them like his sire now...*im at a loss of what color so i will just enjoy him even as a stud he is my sweetheart and just very easy going and laid back like his sire/dam*...i will not regret that he isn't acting like a hormone crazy teenager but just really mellow...lol if you do the private message i can give you the fb info and see other photos of his sire lighter and the dorsal stripe...its not dark like his dam but there...lol...so he is just considered bald faced or piebald...i just am trying to figure out what to even describe him as not to make him this big special deal just would like to kinda put a name to what he is...lol
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Per the bold.. You are talking about the colt right? I can see he is housed with mares... I hope you are prepared for a bunch of foals next year. He is more than old enough to have bred every one of them. Please do geld him. He is a mixed breed unregistered horse. Yes he is a pretty color, but that is not enough reason for a horse to stay a stallion. He would make an excellent gelding.


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

NdAppy said:


> Per the bold.. You are talking about the colt right? I can see he is housed with mares... I hope you are prepared for a bunch of foals next year. He is more than old enough to have bred every one of them. Please do geld him. He is a mixed breed unregistered horse. Yes he is a pretty color, but that is not enough reason for a horse to stay a stallion. He would make an excellent gelding.


 Yikes. I agree with this. I hope you have had the mares he's housed with preg checked.


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## LexusK (Jan 18, 2013)

I rescued my mare in July (see first two pictures). She gained a decent amount of weight in that period and she went from a nice bay colour in July to black by the end of September


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

LexusK - That would be because your mare is a fading black. Just means her coat is prone to sunfading.


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## LexusK (Jan 18, 2013)

NdAppy said:


> LexusK - That would be because your mare is a fading black. Just means her coat is prone to sunfading.


That I know, just thought I would share


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## LexusK (Jan 18, 2013)

LexusK said:


> That I know, just thought I would share


Although I've never seen a horse change that fast so early in the fall, have you?


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I know of a buckskin that in winter his black stockings turned into panty hose. His face and neck turn a dark smokey bronze but each winter it's different as to how much shoulder the black covers or how far down his back is bronze. That all goes when he sheds and his stockings are down to his knees and his coat is yellow again.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Saddlebag, I would bet he is brown based with the dark was that shows in the winter.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Lexus - yep because as soon as the days start getting shorter the horses start slowly losing their summer coats and have their winter ones start to come in.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

SouthernPanda said:


> im at a loss of what color so i will just enjoy him even as a stud he is my sweetheart and just very easy going and laid back like his sire/dam...i will not regret that he isn't acting like a hormone crazy teenager but just really mellow...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I find it really reprehensible that you think it ok to keep this poor lad as a stud, given the horror story you seem to have rescued him from. Having seen first hand what irresponsible breeding can do for horse welfare, how can you possibly justify adding to that problem by keeping a stud that has no papers, no breed, and nothing to give his get other than a "Kool Kolor (TM)"? 

Geld him, ASAP. And get the vet to check any and all mares that have been kept with him, and hope they are not PG or if they are, that they are early enough for a shot of lute to be used.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Dismiss this. posted in wrong place.


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

Chiilaa said:


> I find it really reprehensible that you think it ok to keep this poor lad as a stud, given the horror story you seem to have rescued him from. Having seen first hand what irresponsible breeding can do for horse welfare, how can you possibly justify adding to that problem by keeping a stud that has no papers, no breed, and nothing to give his get other than a "Kool Kolor (TM)"?
> 
> ?Geld him, ASAP. And get the vet to check any and all mares that have been kept with him, and hope they are not PG or if they are, that they are early enough for a shot of lute to be used.


Chiilaa, first off i am a responsible horse owner and none of my mares are in foal except a mare i got in Oct. 2012 that is due soon and was exposed to the stud where she was used as a broodmare. You do not know anything about me and for you to judge is pretty sad! If i ever chose to breed any horse it would be after research and alot of testing on every horse involved! I have friends who have had studs their intact all their lives i will geld when i feel it will be safe and a healthy with the cold weather and unsantitary conditions til spring or summer! And can be let out in pasture not be around nasty horse manure to get infections r have unclean surgical area!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Panda, the mares could very well be in foal. He's old enough to breed, they're old enough to take....what makes you think they haven't been bred?


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

I know they are not in foal! Even though i am new to the genetics thing does not mean i am new to knowing when a horse is in foal or signs she isn't! First off i would not allow my stud to nreed to his aunts/dam i am by no means stupid and do not nor will i ever put a mare at risk of being in foal when i have dealt with my share of rescue mares with young foals at their side and in foal again also taken mares who should never of been bred at all because of the ignorance of a backyard breeder or just plain do not care! As i stated if i ever should choose to a horse it will be a lengthy process not taken lightly as i do not take my blue still being a stud! And would not breed just because he is a "kool kolor" as previously stated! There are alot of reg. Horses that are bred who shouldn't be but because they have the registration! Neither are better than the other if the owners are not responsible for being proactive and doing research when choosing to breed any horse reg. or "grade" (fyi) both the sire and dam are registered as is the other qh mare Lucy i was lucky enough to get here registration papers but the sire/dam to wolf was lost but in talking to others doing "research" discovered they were both registered and not just having that registration papers do not make the horse, the horse (temperament, willingness to learn, and just body as well as health)itself makes the papers worth anything! Because any horse is grade does not by any meansmake them unworthy or worthless for breeding! Most great bloodlines of horses were from unregistered horses who are the foundations to amazing horses and that is what i would look at if i ever choose to breed any horse for my own personal use not to sell as i do not sell horses and do not nor would i breed for sole purpose of making money off its papers! It would be for the love of the particular horse, its breed and be very selective on how or when i did it! Not just go ok hour stud has great papers and oh wow so does your mare lets breed them! I have rescued almost 200 horses and i am not stupid to the aspects, horrors and realities of horse breeding. I have witnessed it first hand from helping a dying broodmare of 31 yrs old pass over to a better world when she was bred from 3 and had a dead foal hanging out of her because she was too old to have ever been bred again or to foals from PMU horses tossed away like garbage! So do not assume i am ignorant to any kind of breeding and as i stated if i did it would be for me personally and live its life out with my family unlike some who take them when they are not what they expected toss them like dirty diapers! Mine would be out of love and respect for my own horse and not for money! Sorry to sound mean but i am 46 years old not immune to the cruelties of a aspects of the horse world (registered & grade)! And would never put a horse in that situation unless i was willing to give it the 32+ yrs after i make the decision to breed!


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

SouthernPanda said:


> I know they are not in foal! Even though i am new to the genetics thing does not mean i am new to knowing when a horse is in foal or signs she isn't! First off i would not allow my stud to nreed to his aunts/dam i am by no means stupid and do not nor will i ever put a mare at risk of being in foal when i have dealt with my share of rescue mares with young foals at their side and in foal again also taken mares who should never of been bred at all because of the ignorance of a backyard breeder or just plain do not care! As i stated if i ever should choose to a horse it will be a lengthy process not taken lightly as i do not take my blue still being a stud! And would not breed just because he is a "kool kolor" as previously stated! There are alot of reg. Horses that are bred who shouldn't be but because they have the registration! Neither are better than the other if the owners are not responsible for being proactive and doing research when choosing to breed any horse reg. or "grade" (fyi) both the sire and dam are registered as is the other qh mare Lucy i was lucky enough to get here registration papers but the sire/dam to wolf was lost but in talking to others doing "research" discovered they were both registered and not just having that registration papers do not make the horse, the horse (temperament, willingness to learn, and just body as well as health)itself makes the papers worth anything! Because any horse is grade does not by any meansmake them unworthy or worthless for breeding! Most great bloodlines of horses were from unregistered horses who are the foundations to amazing horses and that is what i would look at if i ever choose to breed any horse for my own personal use not to sell as i do not sell horses and do not nor would i breed for sole purpose of making money off its papers! It would be for the love of the particular horse, its breed and be very selective on how or when i did it! Not just go ok hour stud has great papers and oh wow so does your mare lets breed them! I have rescued almost 200 horses and i am not stupid to the aspects, horrors and realities of horse breeding. I have witnessed it first hand from helping a dying broodmare of 31 yrs old pass over to a better world when she was bred from 3 and had a dead foal hanging out of her because she was too old to have ever been bred again or to foals from PMU horses tossed away like garbage! So do not assume i am ignorant to any kind of breeding and as i stated if i did it would be for me personally and live its life out with my family unlike some who take them when they are not what they expected toss them like dirty diapers! Mine would be out of love and respect for my own horse and not for money! Sorry to sound mean but i am 46 years old not immune to the cruelties of a aspects of the horse world (registered & grade)! And would never put a horse in that situation unless i was willing to give it the 32+ yrs after i make the decision to breed!


Sorry, but he's housed with them, and he's intact. That means he can and will breed them
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kayella (Feb 11, 2012)

Are they all left unsupervised together for any period of time? Do you pasture them separately? From just looking at the pictures, it looks like he runs with the mares in the pasture, where he can easily pasture breed them. Without any more information, that's all we have to go off of. We're not insulting you, we are just concerned of the possible risk that he can breed them.


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

I completely understand that and i did not ut this post for breeding it was strickly for finding out what color my horse was or any help! Not if my stud was going to be bred! I am a responsible horse owner and no offense it is not why i posted only if anyone had ever had a horse change colors like him not for insults about me being a horrible horse owner because he is a grade...POS horse with nothing but color! And heaven forbid he breeds one of my own personal mares! Which i know he hasn't! I do not have to explain y reasons as to why he is a stud only asked about his coloring nothing more! I have not posted rude or close to rude on anyone elses posts when they have a stud or have reg. Horse for sale! it is not my place to judge them or be rude because i do not know them personally and i will not be judgmental to do that! I have only asked about coloring and genetics did not post in breeding! It has turned into a witch hunt because i have a stud from a rescue mare and heaven forbid he is worthless because he is that a grade...non reg...nothing to give to the horse genes pool so geld him just for that and i only wanted to ask other horse owners about an awesome horse i own and love but am confused about his changing colors nothing more! And have gotten alot of nasty insults privately and some snotty ones here in my posts from what i posted about him being a stud which has not a thing to do with my original post!!


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

I have been taking care of my horses since 2010 since we got them here in ND and he is almost 3 yrs old with no foals then i am being responsible and will continue to as i do not want any foals!


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## CCH (Jan 23, 2011)

Southern Panda, you are lucky the colts have not bred any of your mares yet. No one is trying to be rude to you, they are trying to help you understand genetics and why he shouldn't be intact. No one is saying you are not a good person; they are just as passionate about horses as you are and are trying to share their knowledge with you.

I would suggest that you make as much effort as possible to obtain those lost papers. Many associations will try to help you with necessary paperwork whether it is an affidavit, court document, or getting the owner who surrendered the horse to sign a transfer.

I also advise you look into getting him PtHA papers. For $170 you can get him those papers. http://www.pinto.org/information/13_registration.pdf


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

Yes i agree CCH but when i get nasty private messages telling me i am a backyard breeder and using poor innocent rescues to do it i do take offense! And as i stated what does being insulting to me about my stud have anything to do with the original post of what color is it? Nothing comparing apples to oranges! And i do not really care about papers but will look into see what they can tell me about his coloring not for backyard breeding! To make money...not one of my rescue mare have had foals while in my care i am responsible and the 3 that did were kota blues dam...a rescue mare foaled a filly april got her march not blues and frost my b/w boy who was in foal nov 2010 i got her april 2011 not his foal....all were in foal before coming to me just as Lucys sister Rosie! And to make sure i put this to rest there was a neighbors stud got out 6 months ago the owner had my mares tested just in case because he broke through my fencing and they have been checked again last month because they are all really fat and was told none were except rosie the horse brought in oct....a real caring horse person does not judge or accuse someone w/o knowing the facts first....and i will delete this post as soon as i am able to get on my pc which is at home and then there will be no more need to send nasty msgs and i will just go elsewhere for information and do research not ask actual people and not expect to get answers but judged on something they do not like or know anything about me! I really appreciate the people who did give me some wonderful advice and will definately take it to heart and i appreciate the link to the site you just gave me maybe i can use it to find answers i am seeking and not be criticized because of him being a stud but only about his coloring and changes of color... they can make me appreciate him even more for who he is not what that he is a stud!


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

If you get messages like that forward them to a moderator and let them deal with it.

You can't delete posts on this forum, only the moderators and admin can. 

Blue turned two in the fall of 2012. He could have very well bred the mares this summer/fall. Which means you would have more foals on the ground next year. 

Most colts can and will breed shortly after turning one.


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

The farmer just had them vet checked again for my concern of them being larger (fatter) 32 days ago and were all neg but Rosie..no he has bred no one and in spring we have our pasture divided already for him to be put in with the other 3 boys and mares on other side with 4 strands of hotwire and horse fencing....so have and will take precautions as i have been since he was a yr and vet checked him!


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Agreed with ND forward to a moderator those messages.  personally I don't think your a back yard breeder and if the horses were to become pregnant honestly its not going to end all horsey kind. Granted I'm very against breeding horses willy nilly but I've heard of much worse problems than this. And we don't even know if these mares are bred and its not like she is out soliciting her grade stud for profit cause he is pretty (which people do). Want hear a bad horse knowledge breeding story I'll give you one.
The lady that I'm buying a half arabian Pinto filly from was telling me that this guy called her wanting to buy the filly because his two year old grade stud is getting hard to handle and he thinks that a filly will calm him down.... Can you believe that??? When she asked him what breed his colt was he said black with a white stripe. He said with her filly he's going to make all kinds of money breeding this stud colt. Now that's a backyard breeder!!! I like what she told him though, she said no I will not sell you my filly and geld that stud colt and hire a trainer. Good response in my book. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CCH (Jan 23, 2011)

I'm glad you have the pasture set up to separate the mares from the colts. Having two young studs together where they share a fence line with mares can be a problem. They can injure each other with play fighting or with real fighting. They can also injure themselves on the fence trying to get to a mare that they can smell/touch. You might want to consider adding an 8-10ft buffer area between them to reduce some of these issues. Nobody wants to spend money on the vet unnecessarily. Can I ask which clinic you are using? There are certain vets in our area that are better at equine reproduction than others. Plus doing an ultrasound is almost always more accurate than a manual palpation.

The other thing I thought of was that you could maybe call/email UC Davis or Animal Genetics to get a re-printed copy of your boy's genetic test results. I bet they would even email it to you. I have found those companies have been really great to work with!


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

Wait.I'm confused. Why would the farmer have them checked. Aren't they yours?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

wow people are seriously PMing you and putting you down. WOW the gull of some. 
I am sorry Panda 

Its funny when some one starts a thread about a horse they think it being mistreated everyone is posting saying it is none of there business to just leave it alone. but they will sure get into the business of telling some one what the need to do with there horse. *shaking my head* sorry again for the rude people here


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

I personally think we should switch back to how cute Blue is 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

Peppy Barrel Racing said:


> I personally think we should switch back to how cute Blue is
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


^^^^^what she said^^^^^^


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## PurpleMonkeyWrench (Jun 12, 2012)

Critter sitter said:


> I have to ask where in FL did you live?? I grew up near Tampa and now live in Nebraska


I grew up in St. Pete :lol: and now Im in Cali lol


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

PurpleMonkeyWrench said:


> I grew up in St. Pete :lol: and now Im in Cali lol


I was in pinellas park


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

Yeah, report those messages. There is a line between concern and plain ol' harassment. There are some pretty heart-wrenching stories in the Horse Protection area of the forum and people sometimes go on the offensive - it's more out of concern than malice though, so I wouldn't pay it any mind unless it crosses a line or is making you uncomfortable.

Now to get back on topic here, I think your boy is absolutely lovely with really unique colouring. I'm not a colour expert, so I'm not sure what would cause the 360 colour change, nor do I have much experience with duns or dunskin's to know how varied they are between Summer and Winter. All I can say is his colouration is quite striking. What do you plan on doing with him when he's older?


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## PurpleMonkeyWrench (Jun 12, 2012)

Critter sitter said:


> I was in pinellas park


Oh too funny! lol thats where all of the stables were at


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

Ok i am not caring about breeding so his genetics are mute just was done when i had his sire done..they did all 3...he is well mannered even with a mare in heat he could care less was tested yesterday and told he is submissive to the mares and his sire but to just be cautious and careful as i have been he does not stay around the mares at all he stays to himself and with his buddy frost and my huge tb sip....they are outcast...so to speak...


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

He will become a trail horse and possible cart horse for me when my goes or if my back surgey does not do well and i have to stop riding for good....him and kee-va will be trained for carts and if i see something else in him the skies the limit who knows....


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

We lived on the base in tampa and boarded my daizey in brandon..love the area...


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Peppy Barrel Racing said:


> I personally think we should switch back to how cute Blue is
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So I'm going to start . Blue is a gorgeous horse I love his coloring and I'd take him in a heartbeat! He is also one of my favorite colors grullo and if he's grullo and cream that's even cooler. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

PurpleMonkeyWrench said:


> Oh too funny! lol thats where all of the stables were at


yes I know  my favorite little horse town hehehe I worked at circle L its no longer there......boo


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

Thank you Peppy he might be grade but he is priceless to me because if you saw the albums he could very well of never survived and he is my sweet miracle boy..jacked up coloring and all...haha  just to think i am not partial to grullas...lol i got one...but wouldn't trade him for the world...


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

beau159 said:


> Our Nokota / Welsh mare we had used to do that.
> 
> In the winter, she would look black (especially from a distance), because her grey color turned so dark.
> 
> ...


Hey you're the one with the other nokota on here lol!

And my Nokota, she lighter and lighter every year with grey, she's pretty super light for a grulla in the summer, everyone at barns we go to thinks she's a roan.. But in winter she comes out a dark dark grulla colour, and her legs are 100% black


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

blue is absolutely beautiful


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

Is the stud colt in with mares now? I can't see a farmer with a loose stud paying for vet checks on your mares if there could possibly be any question who the stud is. So, I am going to assume that your stud is NOT pastured with your mares. 

You could clean up this mess right quick if you explained that the stud is kept separate from the mares. If he isn't kept separate from the mares, then I guess congratulations are in order, because someone is gonna get knocked up. And the farmer would be an idiot to pay for vet checks, because more than likely it wouldn't have been HIS stud impregnating mares. Common sense.


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

With him being u usual it sometimes is a blessing because ppl notice him and will ask me where i got him and i get to show and tell them about rescues and that not all are broken down and none are worthless or worth saving...look at my eclectic bunch...lol i crosses of trakehener..qh..lippizaner..twh and all were either rescues slaughter bound or products of saved rescue horses...or kee-va was saved from being beaten for sheer fact she was white with blue eyes...when i got her her skin was purple and realized that it was bruises...but like blue moon she is special in her own right and unusual but means the world to my husband and they all are apart of our family our oversized kids...lol we just are or hope to be lucky enough to ride and explore trails and country with...


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

Yes it was his stud who broke into my pasture with my horses and yes he is with my other horses mares/geldings and i do not have to explain anything because this post was not posted about me breeding it was about my horses color not what his gender was! And yes the farmer was liable because my mares were all open and have been for almost 3 yrs....not that that was in question! Could we get off my horse being a STUD! I posted about his coloring and all of you went on a stud witch hunt! How many of you have ever bred a mare...hmmmm wow bet about 75% of you so please get off telling me how or what to do with MY STUD! I am responsible and not you for hos actions or non actions of breeding! So Peppy think he will darken like his sire as he gets older? Does he look like his sire or dam? Check out the album if you would like but please no more stud comments!


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

Since it's back on topic:wink:
Odie as a 4 yr old
Odie this summer
Odie at Christmas


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

OMG! Drooling hehe


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Sahara said:


> Is the stud colt in with mares now? I can't see a farmer with a loose stud paying for vet checks on your mares if there could possibly be any question who the stud is. So, I am going to assume that your stud is NOT pastured with your mares.
> 
> You could clean up this mess right quick if you explained that the stud is kept separate from the mares. If he isn't kept separate from the mares, then I guess congratulations are in order, because someone is gonna get knocked up. And the farmer would be an idiot to pay for vet checks, because more than likely it wouldn't have been HIS stud impregnating mares. Common sense.


Hey now your thwarting my efforts to get the thread on track lol 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

SouthernPanda said:


> OMG! Drooling hehe


He turns 22 on Mother's Day:wink: He's my crabby old man


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

He still has the savy sexy gentleman thing going on at his age...just beautiful.....i love the christmas photo....we are going to do a pig pickin at our barn late summer and i want to find some pink pig ears and big old glasses and put signs on mine for the invitations that say" eat more pig"...kinda as a sarcastic thing seeing as they are almost all saved from slaughter...lol thought it would be a cute card...i have over 6,000 photos of all my guys...spring/summer...winter/winter...lol


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

SouthernPanda said:


> Yes it was his stud who broke into my pasture with my horses and yes he is with my other horses mares/geldings and i do not have to explain anything because this post was not posted about me breeding it was about my horses color not what his gender was! And yes the farmer was liable because my mares were all open and have been for almost 3 yrs....not that that was in question! Could we get off my horse being a STUD! I posted about his coloring and all of you went on a stud witch hunt! How many of you have ever bred a mare...hmmmm wow bet about 75% of you so please get off telling me how or what to do with MY STUD! I am responsible and not you for hos actions or non actions of breeding! So Peppy think he will darken like his sire as he gets older? Does he look like his sire or dam? Check out the album if you would like but please no more stud comments!


I hate to break it to you but when posting on a public forum you are going to get posts you don't like. Post that you have a grade rescued stud in with grade rescued mares and that is going to get people going. 

And no "75%" of us have not bred our horses.

Yes you started a thread about his color. You have been told multiple times he is splash, black based, probably with cream and dun. He is not a dunskin. He appears to be a grulla with the cream gene.


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

Wow why are you being so freaking rude i only stated that that was why i posted it originally and said that to get it back on topic...and yes i know that then don't reply!


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

think everyone needs to relax.. Here:



Whoa I


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Southern - You are taking responses of some people, like mine, way to personally. I was just trying to inform you that you can't control who and what posts are made on threads when you post on a public forum. Throwing out numbers at other posters and accusing them of things when you are mad isn't going to make your case any better. 

I know for a _fact_ everyone posting about having a stud colt with the mares are concerned about the horses and not to **** you off or pick on you and that most of those same posters, once again like myself, have never intentionally bred a horse.

No one said you were stupid. No one implied it. No one said you didn't take care of your horses. People were/are concerned about unnecessary breeding of horses themselves that had to be rescued/came from rescue situations with unknown pedigrees and unknown what genetic diseases they may or may not be carriers of.


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

NdAppy, just to let you know, you may want to edit your last post and change the P word... Your comment may be removed because of it


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

Once more! Do you pay for my horses hay, feed, vet bills or anything pertaining to them and what does my stud if i choose to breed have a thing to do with you or your horse if i never sell or breed him to another horse and he lives with me forever! As i stated long time ago i would and have common sense enough to do research with all the diseases that are in play and anyone who would ever even think about breeding without doing testing is just asking for trouble! Lastly i am sorry that you feel because my unregistered horses are beneath yours then sorry please do not reply as i told you last my sire/dam were reg and are not trash because of that and so sorry that you feel that way!...Please do not post again because you have been snippy with me about comments about my horse and i am an idiot! I understand it is the internet but i have my big girl undies on today so i will be ok! Please do not do any favors of looking into my horses for me as you said you would last night on fb i do not need charity and will not reply to your posts again! I am not knowledgeable of genetics and be the first to admit it but i am not a know it all of all things! So please can everyone not just talk about their gorgeous horses and get along w/o talking down to others with ones that are loved just as much as yours....


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

Just purely out of curiosity (since others read these threads and can gain something from them) why don't you think your stud colt can get your mares pregnant? 

It just seems odd to me that someone who rescues horses would not find it prudent to separate mares from studs. Wouldn't that fall under horsemanship 101, unless of course, you were trying to breed them?


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

I'm not sure where you are getting people Are calling you an idiot. If your ungelded Colt is in with mares that is irrisponsible. Which concerns everyone
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

Once more i give up i really do! No one said anything about breeding and i have never stated that my stud could not..give this a rest unless you want to come go out in-65* weather and feed/water/hay them..pay their vet bill and board then get off my back! I am done post all you want.....!!! Only wanted to find a place to talk about horses and ask about my horses color not be slammed so enjoy your day and have a great weekend....


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

No one is out to get you. I don't understand why you think that and why you are reading that into things people are posting.


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

WOW just WOW Can you all just GIVE IT A REST??? can some one new come here and ask a innocent question ABOUT COLOR with out you all getting your panties in a wad and stirring up Drama??? REALLY if she chooses to let her colt in with mares or not is None of you alls business she has been very nice and you all have bashed her over and over about something completely OFF TOPIC. its no wonder people post and then never return. I have tried really hard to keep my mouth shut but WOW I have watched and the same profiles are always in the middle of the Drama on each poor new poster. 

Panda I am so sorry


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

SouthernPanda said:


> No one said anything about breeding and i have never stated that my stud could not..


According to else where you are going to breed him. is that why you're so defensive?


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

Agreed. It was brought up once, she answered and we returned to the topic of the thread only to have the subject regurgitated again. Yes, it is a public forum, yes there are differing opinions, however, in this case, berating someone incessantly isn't going to accomplish anything. Sometimes it's best to keep our opinions to ourselves and look at a different thread if the content of the current one does not agree with us. The OP is new to the forum and perhaps unfamiliar with the intentions of some of the regular posters on here. That would make anyone defensive.

I think in the best interests of all involved, we should get back to the topic, which was colour, of which her horse is indeed very unique, and as I mentioned before, quite a stunning boy.


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## Reckyroo (Feb 5, 2013)

I have never seen a horse with blue eyes before. Beautiful x
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

MsBHavin said:


> Wait.I'm confused. Why would the farmer have them checked. Aren't they yours?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
from what I understand, the farmer paid for the testing of the OP's mare becuase it was HIS responsibility that his stud got loose and could possibly have impregnated those mares. That's what I call neighborly.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

I just want to say way to go guys I'm pretty sure another new member was chased away. :-(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PurpleMonkeyWrench (Jun 12, 2012)

Critter sitter said:


> yes I know  my favorite little horse town hehehe I worked at circle L its no longer there......boo


Awww  I rode at first choice equine


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> from what I understand, the farmer paid for the testing of the OP's mare becuase it was HIS responsibility that his stud got loose and could possibly have impregnated those mares. That's what I call neighborly.


Lol Must have missed that part. Although seems a little unfair to have the neighbor pregnancy check your mares when you've got a colt in the mix already, who's willing to undo the job for you. lol


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

Your horse is a neat color. I dont think i would call it medicine hat, as it seems to have a lot of color down his neck . He has a cape  
If he is in with mares they have probably been bred. I did not see where anyone said the colt was a POS grade. and hopefully there is not pregger mares, if there are, hope that they have healthy foals. Now if the pos grade had been a pos registered horse that would be called line breeding by some breeders.. to me.. inbred is inbred and line breeding is a form of inbreeding no matter what .


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

Thank You Critter Sitter! I really appreciate it!


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

OKAY...... Let's try this again because the off topic of berating the OP about the same thing is getting a lil old. And people sending her nasty PM's is a little immature and rediculous. Let's talk about what this thread was made for COLOR. I think this OP get's what you guys are saying, as it's been stated several times, lets talk about beautiful color of Blue. She did not know since she was new, how sensitive the subject about breeding is for some people. I think we should forgive her so she can actually enjoy the forum. 

So I know how to solve your problem OP. You can just send Blue to me, then everyone will be happy cause he will be away from your mares, and I'll have a pretty new horse. Hehe 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

He's definitely very pretty. I'm absolutely in love with his colour - Paints/Pintos are one of my favourite. One thing I should mention that I've seen mentioned on here actually, is to make sure you put suncsreen on him in the Summer or even an SPF protective mask. The areas with pink skin, especially on his nose, will make him susceptible to burning. You probably already know this, but I thought I would mention it just in case. We don't need his good looks being marred by sun damage.


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

Hehe Peppy he is such a good boy..we have imprinted and taken so much time with him that i could never give him up he is my grandbaby...we love him to death even with his weird colored hair and all!...he is my barn buddy when i come feed...he has to search my pockets beg for a booty rub and just stands while i fill up water buckets..then it has to be in middle of me forking hay and moving it around..he is a ham...


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Awe he sounds like my Bay colt Jet. He is all in my business all the time. Lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

Hehe...i am not sure if you have fb but i have videos of him where he does his thing when he gets a booty scratch...everyone loves him that comes to the barn because of his sweet laid back temperament...and he still will try to nurse off his dam and he is 2 1/2 yrs old she has had no milk in a very long time but she lets him suck on empty teets...he is just a weirdo...lol he acts like a little foal or the mentality...


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Nokotaheaven said:


> NdAppy, just to let you know, you may want to edit your last post and change the P word... Your comment may be removed because of it


Personally is a bad word??


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

Golden Horse said:


> Personally is a bad word??


No, I was pointing out the "and not to p__ you off"


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## BBBCrone (Jan 28, 2012)

Anyways ... I wanted to say that Blue is beautiful. His coloring is really different


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## PaintMeAnOvero (Jun 12, 2012)

OP, I have one that looks totally different in the summer and winter. This is my filly. I like the fact that she changes so much. 2 from summer and 2 when from late fall. She looks almost black now, I'll have to take some pics.


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

Thank you! He is my little man...


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## PaintMeAnOvero (Jun 12, 2012)

Sorry the pictures are so big!


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## SouthernPanda (Feb 5, 2013)

Wow..she is beautiful! And yes she does change her colors from light to dark....if you would like i started a new thread...it is in New Posts...under Horse Pictures....title is : are you addicted to taking pictures of your horses like i am....would be wonderful to see her new photo it would be the first one...hope to see you on the new thread...


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Golden Horse said:


> Personally is a bad word??


Pregnant? :lol:


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

WSArabians said:


> Pregnant? :lol:


Haha lol! No more talk if pregnancy in this thread just pretty color.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Lord knows we don't need that can of worms open again 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

WSArabians said:


> Pregnant? :lol:


I better not be!


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Golden Horse said:


> I better not be!


Haha!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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