# Problem with snatching grass



## Vintage Rider (May 16, 2021)

I am a long time trail rider, so I am well-seasoned and stay very consistent with making sure my horse is listening to me at all times at the barn and always during the ride. I have recently started riding out with his herd buddies from my new private stable to a beautiful national park right down the road. These riders are very permissive when it comes to the horses making it their decision to eat grass while riding. I have already taught him that this is not going to happen. After 8 months of ground work and lots of under saddle practice, he does not pull me towards the grass anymore while I am standing next to him or hand walking him, nor does he start grabbing for grass while riding. But we have always been by ourselves. Yesterday he was very annoyed at the beginning of the trip by seeing the other two horses eating and kept trying to bite me A LOT and reach down for grass while I was preparing to mount up. Pulling his head up was not working as he just kept using his strength to outdo me, so my go-to method was to get my boot under his chin and tap and push, I never kicked! I figured horses were sensitive enough in that area that I didn't have to do much but irritate him. Long story, I know, but when I did this to him yesterday I was accused of being mean. I love this horse to the max, he is my very best trail horse but he isn't perfect and there are days he is disrespectful. This is the first time he has dismissed his training and decided to do what he wanted. And obviously because he was with his herd buddies. But it was hard for me to swallow being "mean" because I wasn't. I am all for "making them move their feet" but in this situation the other horses were too close by and that would have been dangerous to do. Anyone else use the "boot method" when necessary?


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Yep. They know they need permission. A few have figured out it comes quicker when they don't ask. They know they also get that treat once I'm on the ground. I don't correct for a quick snatch of grass at a walk by when the trail is narrow and it is waving in their face. 

Your horse your rules when you are in your saddle on your time. Nothing to feel guilty about. You may though work out a signal from the ground that works from the saddle that allows him with your permission to enjoy a bite or two if these people habitually stop to allow that behavior. Otherwise I'd be in front or dragging behind so I had a bit more control with less opinion.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

QtrBel said:


> Your horse your rules when you are in your saddle on your time.


This. My horses frequently graze while we ride. We sometimes make stops for it. I don't allow them to do it ALL the time though. And it isn't like we have a lot of grass available in the desert where I ride. I will mount up while my horse is eating. Since I'm in the saddle then, I'll just pull harder if needed. I will add that the hardest I've ever pulled on the reins comes when lifting the head of my horse when he prefers another bite. 

There is a big difference between putting pressure somewhere and kicking. Assuming your horse didn't fling his head back and try to run away in panic....no, you weren't being mean. 

The other night, I was bringing hay into the corral to feed the horses. Bandit normally goes and stands next to "his" bucket and waits for food. That night, he got pushy. He knows better. After a couple of polite requests didn't get a change in behavior, I turned and kicked him. Hard. In the ribs. His reaction? He hopped sideways, eyes wide open - then quietly followed me to his bucket. As in, 12 inches from my shoulder following. I'm sure there are people who would say I was terribly abusive, but Bandit and I have been together since 2015. We know each other far too well.


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## Vintage Rider (May 16, 2021)

bsms said:


> This. My horses frequently graze while we ride. We sometimes make stops for it. I don't allow them to do it ALL the time though. And it isn't like we have a lot of grass available in the desert where I ride. I will mount up while my horse is eating. Since I'm in the saddle then, I'll just pull harder if needed. I will add that the hardest I've ever pulled on the reins comes when lifting the head of my horse when he prefers another bite.
> 
> There is a big difference between putting pressure somewhere and kicking. Assuming your horse didn't fling his head back and try to run away in panic....no, you weren't being mean.
> 
> The other night, I was bringing hay into the corral to feed the horses. Bandit normally goes and stands next to "his" bucket and waits for food. That night, he got pushy. He knows better. After a couple of polite requests didn't get a change in behavior, I turned and kicked him. Hard. In the ribs. His reaction? He hopped sideways, eyes wide open - then quietly followed me to his bucket. As in, 12 inches from my shoulder following. I'm sure there are people who would say I was terribly abusive, but Bandit and I have been together since 2015. We know each other far too well.


He ignored my boot anyway so I figure it didn't mean much lol


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

yes. I have used the 'boot' method. I wouldn't call it a kick, but it wasn't a 'nudge' either. a firm 'tap', I guess. Hard enough to make a memorable impression.

Perhaps you can strike some kind of 'bargain' with your horse, since he has a strong desire to graze (is he getting enough of that?) take him somewhere, before saddling, drop the line as much onto the ground as you can safely (meaning don't have any pull on it from your hand to his head, otherwise you are setting up a situation where he pulls and you ignore and he leans on the line.) Let him just graze for a full 20 minutes. Then head up command, and no snatching allowed. 

I assume you already know this, but using ONE rein to hold his head from dropping to graze will be more effective than holding pressure on both reins. You can 'anchor' one hand to the pommel, with enough loose rein that he is comfortable but not enough that he can reach down to the grass. If he tries, he bumps his own mouth, and you cann add in a swift boot in the ribs at the same time if he doesn't find the rein sufficient .


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## Vintage Rider (May 16, 2021)

tinyliny said:


> yes. I have used the 'boot' method. I wouldn't call it a kick, but it wasn't a 'nudge' either. a firm 'tap', I guess. Hard enough to make a memorable impression.
> 
> Perhaps you can strike some kind of 'bargain' with your horse, since he has a strong desire to graze (is he getting enough of that?) take him somewhere, before saddling, drop the line as much onto the ground as you can safely (meaning don't have any pull on it from your hand to his head, otherwise you are setting up a situation where he pulls and you ignore and he leans on the line.) Let him just graze for a full 20 minutes. Then head up command, and no snatching allowed.
> 
> ...





tinyliny said:


> yes. I have used the 'boot' method. I wouldn't call it a kick, but it wasn't a 'nudge' either. a firm 'tap', I guess. Hard enough to make a memorable impression.
> 
> Perhaps you can strike some kind of 'bargain' with your horse, since he has a strong desire to graze (is he getting enough of that?) take him somewhere, before saddling, drop the line as much onto the ground as you can safely (meaning don't have any pull on it from your hand to his head, otherwise you are setting up a situation where he pulls and you ignore and he leans on the line.) Let him just graze for a full 20 minutes. Then head up command, and no snatching allowed.
> 
> I assume you already know this, but using ONE rein to hold his head from dropping to graze will be more effective than holding pressure on both reins. You can 'anchor' one hand to the pommel, with enough loose rein that he is comfortable but not enough that he can reach down to the grass. If he tries, he bumps his own mouth, and you can add in a swift boot in the ribs at the same time if he doesn't find the rein sufficient .


No he never tries it under saddle, and he is out 24/7 on free choice hay and pasture with 3 other horses, we hand walk them about 1/4 mile down the road to the park entrance. He is used to this routine, but yesterday was the first time he fought me on the grazing while I was prepping to mount up. I have his 4-knotted rope halter under his bridle with my bridle rein setting over the saddle horn with just enough give that he can't get his head all the way down while I am re-cinching, etc. He knows to stand when I toss his lead rope down in front of him on the ground. But this time he was constantly biting at me and tugging on the reins, something he never did before. I highly doubt he was hungry and he knows the area further up that we stop to give the horses some grass and water. My problem was the other two riders decided to let their horses graze before we mounted up and most likely he didn't want to be left out. But I can't let him have the last word. He was good the rest of the ride, though and even when we get separated from the others he still listens.


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## AlpineJack (Sep 12, 2020)

You should not care what other people think, especially ones who do not have disciplined horses. Just do what you know is right for you and your horse.


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

My trainer, such as she was, took people with on rides around the country roads and to a park along a forested river. About one time per ride she would stop and say lets reward them by letting them eat some green grass. The signal was to relax and loosen the reins to the buckle. That was the signal to graze. We would talk and have a good time then gather up our horses and ride some more. The horses she trained (except one incorrigible draft Haflinger) did not try to snatch grass ever. They knew they would be allowed to graze and there was a signal for it.


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## Vintage Rider (May 16, 2021)

Vintage Rider said:


> No he never tries it under saddle, and he is out 24/7 on free choice hay and pasture with 3 other horses, we hand walk them about 1/4 mile down the road to the park entrance. He is used to this routine, but yesterday was the first time he fought me on the grazing while I was prepping to mount up. I have his 4-knotted rope halter under his bridle with my bridle rein setting over the saddle horn with just enough give that he can't get his head all the way down while I am re-cinching, etc. He knows to stand when I toss his lead rope down in front of him on the ground. But this time he was constantly biting at me and tugging on the reins, something he never did before. I highly doubt he was hungry and he knows the area further up that we stop to give the horses some grass and water. My problem was the other two riders decided to let their horses graze before we mounted up and most likely he didn't want to be left out. But I can't let him have the last word. He was good the rest of the ride, though and even when we get separated from the others he still listens.





AlpineJack said:


> You should not care what other people think, especially ones who do not have disciplined horses. Just do what you know is right for you and your horse.


I have not ridden in a group much, 90% of the time I rode out alone, but that was a different era and totally different trails where there was a lot of activity at the barn and on trails. Because of that I never really felt “alone”. Now I feel like I am riding 3 1/2 hours in a national wilderness area with green broke horses and green riders that take off away from you at a trot with no consideration for anyone still not mounted yet and not ready to fall in place in line. My boy was really agitated again halfway through the ride when this happened (again I was dismounted) but I managed to mount back up and kept us both cool headed and we made it back to the barn ALONE with no problems. I guess I felt worse hearing that I was being mean to my horse more than what was happening. I am a proactive rider and I am always trying my best to keep cool but be ready for whatever might happen on trail, which is why my bravery kicked in and off we went. But on a good note, the scenery was amazing and I am learning to sit his trot! So I’ve got that going for me lol


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Those people sound like not so good of trail partners. I'm hoping you can either have a talk with them or find some new buddies to ride with.


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## livelovelaughride (Sep 13, 2011)

Whatever happened to safety first? It's pretty inconsiderate of trail riders to move off when someone isn't ready, never mind trotting or cantering away. I would address it in a kind manner, but if it happened again, I would not bother riding with them. Riding trails should be enjoyable and not 'manageable'. But good for you for getting back safely without issue.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Vintage Rider said:


> He ignored my boot anyway so I figure it didn't mean much lol


Well on that note, I would have been accused of being 'meaner', because if he ignored that, or tried to bite me, I might well have kicked, or otherwise make it very unpleasant, make him think it was a very bad idea to resist/argue with me.

I too _allow, not let_ mine graze while I ride, but they have learned that they are only allowed to when I give the signal(I say 'head down' & squeeze the base of their neck).


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Some people know their horses and know which ones will take advantage of available grass without given permission. I let my horses graze when I give permission, but it's not a pass to graze whenever they want, they know the rules. If I was riding with others and we were stopped & their horses were grazing, I would let mine as to not frustrate him. Why set up the horse up for failure?


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

I’m in the loosie and waresbear corner. The horse is allowed to graze on the trail when I say so, not when he thinks he should.

I am 5’2” and was on the lighter side when I was hard trail riding. I do not have a problem with giving a stern pop under the chin, along with a stern “HEAD UP!” command, to an 1,100 pound horse to get him to get his head up. I’ve done it in close quarters and others have done it to their horses when they were very near me.

This is when experience in horse handling counts for a lot. I hate to say this but I see too many inexperienced people riding together and making up their own very wrong rules. It is far from “mean” to correct a horse that’s jerking its head away or reaching around to bite you, while you are trying to get on. 

I don‘t ride anymore but my horses very well know they hadn’t better make a grab for grass when they are being led, or they are going to get popped under the chin with whatever’s in my hand —- since I can’t get my toe to their chins, these days, it’s the end of my cane.

Any horse that’s old enough to be out on the trails, under saddle, is old enough to have manners and play by the rules. Some horses take longer to understand that, than others. My alpha horse never had to be disciplined for anything - he was born knowing right from wrong. 

My bully horse has been with me 25 of his 27 years and he will still occasionally say “no” just to say it. These days all I have to do is show him the buggy whip and ask him if he “wants a whippin’ and he minds what I am asking. If he’s in a good frame of mind, the farrier won’t even wait for me to halter him, she can have two hooves trimmed before I get to that end of the barn.

Just like our children, it’s about manners and they all need to know when to exercise those manners if they don’t want disciplined.


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## Vintage Rider (May 16, 2021)

livelovelaughride said:


> Whatever happened to safety first? It's pretty inconsiderate of trail riders to move off when someone isn't ready, never mind trotting or cantering away. I would address it in a kind manner, but if it happened again, I would not bother riding with them. Riding trails should be enjoyable and not 'manageable'. But good for you for getting back safely without issue.





walkinthewalk said:


> I’m in the loosie and waresbear corner. The horse is allowed to graze on the trail when I say so, not when he thinks he should.
> 
> I am 5’2” and was on the lighter side when I was hard trail riding. I do not have a problem with giving a stern pop under the chin, along with a stern “HEAD UP!” command, to an 1,100 pound horse to get him to get his head up. I’ve done it in close quarters and others have done it to their horses when they were very near me.
> 
> ...


Yes, it turned into a swing-around-and-nip and then tugging to get his head back down while I was prepping to mount up, not allowed!


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