# "He's just wasting away if he's not being ridden," Thoughts on pasture puffs.



## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

The big bay QH gelding I bought last month at an auction... I asked the 'kid' selling him what the deal was, why is he here to be sold? He said: Our ranch sold off a lot of the cows, we don't need that many working horses now, so he's just going to waste in the pasture.

Well. Okay. I guess for a working ranch maybe that is a waste.

But for the hobbyist, I don't get it. He or she is your horse. If all you do is enjoy their company and take care of them like they deserve, why is it anyone's business if you ride them or not?

Why is it a waste? Its a waste if they're being neglected and abused, IMO. 

One of our neighbors has about 8 horses... each and every one of them are retired roping horses. Some are clearly mature, but not what you'd call 'old'. They still have a lot of riding miles left in them, yet not one of them is ridden, ever, and each and every one of them is shiny, almost fat, and sociable. I've seen them put their heads down for her three year old granddaughter to hug them. We always stop and let our horses say hi when we're riding by. I can't imagine being so presumptive as to tell her she's wasting those horses away.

I'd say do what works for you and your horses.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Your horse(s). Do what you want.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Personally, I don't consider it a big favor to an unrideable horse to spend years of its life in a shelter or stall with a dirt turnout only a few horse-lengths long. I see a lot of this. 

Horses that _can_ be someone's riding horse, I think should be. But f you want a trained sound horse to spend the rest of its life in a pasture with its buddies, well, whatever. Nobody's suffering in this scenario. There are thousands of "wasted" horses out there, because they are a hobby, by and large, and hobbies get taken up and abandoned as people gain and lose time, money, and interest.

I also see nothing deeply wrong with euthanizing unrideable horses, either. 

This discussion gets dangerously close to being about "what horses are for". Are they livestock? Are they pets? Are they autonomous beings who should live a natural life unfettered by human constraints? Things can get pretty heated and extreme fast when you open that can of worms.


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## TribalHorse21 (Aug 23, 2016)

Avna said:


> Personally, I don't consider it a big favor to an unrideable horse to spend years of its life in a shelter or stall with a dirt turnout only a few horse-lengths long. I see a lot of this.


I definitely agree with that part. I've seen horses in that situation and I think it's very unfair to them. We have all our horses on 24/7 turnout in a grass pasture though. The only times they come in are for winter/fall cold nights.


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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

I suspect if some clever soul could come up with an amazing communication tool and ask the horses on pasture puff lifestyle what they think, I suspect they would say something to the effect: "If I have a herd to be in, a good pasture to roam in, shelter and hay when it is needed, I am content with my lot in life as it is."

While I do really, really like riding, I also get great satisfaction from just being around horses doing this and that with them. I should think this may be true for other folks as well.

Now, just as an observation, I have yet to come across anyone who is giving away a horse because its too good to waste being in a pasture -- there was always a financial consideration at hand (and frequently a fairly significant number).


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Chevaux said:


> Now, just as an observation, I have yet to come across anyone who is giving away a horse because its too good to waste being in a pasture -- there was always a financial consideration at hand (and frequently a fairly significant number).


 Well, I do have a good friend who has given me two great, rideable horses over the years, not because she can't afford them but because she wasn't riding them and knew I would. I suppose someone could ALWAYS say there is a financial consideration involved, but I don't think that is always the case. As for the OP, I would say the horse world needs more owners like you! One of my pet peeves is people who dump their old/injured/unrideable horses at auction just because they can't be ridden anymore. Where's the loyalty? So in my opinion, there can never be too many good homes that love horses for the sake of loving horses vs. only loving horses when they are sound and healthy and able to pack you around. To me, you are a true horse lover!


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I will admit when I was a kid and couldn't have a horse, I would frequently see horses standing around in pens with no one around them and think, what a waste, I would be riding that horse! But now that I am older I realize their owners were probably working and couldn't spend as much time with their horses as they would like. But as a kid, "what a waste" was my first thought!


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

I have 3 horses - only one of which I can ride. One is too young & is in training. The other is a true 'pasture ornament'. He came off the track with too many injuries and isn't super sound. I've tried riding him...figured he would be Ok to just walk around the property. Which he is. But he isn't that fun to ride and I always worried I was causing him pain. 

My thought is he has a pretty darned good life. He is out on turnout 24/7. Gets blanketed when needed and gets brushed and fussed over as much as any of the others. I've taught him how to lunge and basic ground work skills so he isn't a pill to handle. 

Better than a bolt to the head which is where he would end up. 

My thinking on pasture puffs is this: that it is fine & dandy as long as the horses are being taken care of...which includes being caught and having some time spent with them.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

As long as you can afford to have horses that aren't 'earning' their keep in some fashion (work wise, I consider the loving and peace I get from them 'earning' enough but that's an individual preference), and you can afford to keep them trimmed, shod, vetted, fed, groomed and healthy, I don't think it's anyone else's business what you do with them. 

I currently own 11 horses, 12 if you count the 2 month old, and I don't ride all of them. 10 of the 12 are rideable but how many can one person ride consistently? So I try to rotate through them and do something with them but, as often as not, several of them don't get much done. The 2 that aren't rideable, aren't rideable YET, I haven't had enough time and resources to get them going under saddle. Hopefully that's going to get remedied this summer. If not? I still love 'em and once you have more than 6, you just quit noticing the extra work.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Questions like this never made sense to me: Why do people bother themselves with things that don't concern them?

In my opinion, what an individual does with their horses, their money, and their time is none of anyone else's concern (provided there is no abuse/neglect happening, of course).


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

First off, it is no ones business when you ride your horse. I have 3 that are on pasture full time . One is not trained, two are green and huge and I have no intentions of riding a horse that is green and close to a ton . 
I have some that do get pasture , and some that like to be in the pen. 18 x 36 . 
If I could have the pen attached to the pasture it would be nice , but that is not possible. 
I do not consider my horses a waste. The majority of the time they are being horses , eating, grazing, sleeping, and if the mood strikes them, they run and buck .


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I think people have a responsibility to take good care of horses they own regardless of if they ride them or not. 
With a good home and good care, riding is an extra.

However, I have said "it is a waste," at times about horses. But what I am referring to is not the horse, but myself and other riders missing out. When you're currently without a good horse to ride and you see a very athletic, sound and amazing horse galloping around field trying to exercise himself, you think about the talent he has and what a great riding horse he would make. 

I've ridden some horses for people who might walk them around an arena once a month, and the horses are super athletes that would make great endurance or sport horses. That is slightly sad to me, not for the horse's sake but for the person who might enjoy the horse. But if there is no one in the horse's life to tap into that potential, the horse doesn't miss what he doesn't know he could be doing. He might have a bit more fun long trotting down a trail and seeing the scenery, but animals don't mind wandering around pastures grazing all day with their buddies either.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

I've got 11 that are pretty much pasture ornaments and they like it that way. LOL


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## Cherrij (Jan 30, 2013)

Once one stable owner asked me, how often I ride my horse. Because quite a few of us, just own our horses. look at them in the pastures, maybe longe them, but that's about it! 
ok, I have circumstances - my dear horse decided to be a pasture puff a couple of times in the past 2 years - he found a way to injure himself to stay a horse.. not get worked. 
I have 2 more in the pasture.. My friend barely ever rides her draft... but mainly because she has no time - she was pregnant, now she has the baby, there is noone to watch the baby long enough... 
and the third horse.. well, for a while noone did anything with him and he started destroying every single thing he could get his teeth to! fences, gates, shelter, everything was breaking.. 

That said.. My horse already knows - if he gives up on being my partner in crime, he will live in my pastures forever. He is half blind and suffered from human cruelty. no way I am selling him if he becomes seriously lame..


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## seabiscuit91 (Mar 30, 2017)

Sounds like your horses have a better life than many 'in work' horses out there!
Don't question yourself, you take care and love them. 
Plenty of people 'work' there horses, but that is literally it. They'll jump on, rip it around and chuck it in the paddock!

I can have as much, if not more fun, when I go see the horses and don't ride! It's like saying, why do you have a cat it doesn't do anything for you? Um, well being happy is fun? Feeling wanted/needed is nice? No?


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Avna said:


> Personally, I don't consider it a big favor to an unrideable horse to spend years of its life in a shelter or stall with a dirt turnout only a few horse-lengths long. I see a lot of this.


YES. Very common here too.

I think it is a massive shame when a horse is wasting away, not even allowed to be a horse because they are confined to a small area and separated from herd mates by a fence-all in the case of the owner who bought a horse for some reason, but never comes out to ride or see their horse at all. That is massively disappointing to me.

If the horse is getting adequate care (if never handled/worked, that meaning includes living in a herd situation) then I say live and let live. If you bought a horse because you like having a horse to brush, sure why not. If you wanted a horse as a yard ornament (provided there is enough space for them), yeah why not. Certainly if you have a horse that for one reason or another can't or isn't ridden, no reason you should feel pressured by others to ride that horse.

I for one, will never understand someone who buys a horse, throws them stalled into a boarding stable, and never goes out and enjoys that horse. I think that they are too expensive to not at least enjoy the therapy one can get from a grooming session or an occasional visit. But that is their choice. I just wish that they wouldn't make the horse suffer (in the case of the stalled, isolated horses) for it.
ETA: On the flip side, sometimes ignorance plays a large part. They aren't aware that the horse is suffering and does not have ideal living conditions.


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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

A waste depends on a persons point of view and its odd how people, even adults, get a very blinkered view of the world and the purpose of things or what should be done.


Horses are, for many people, supposed to work. To perform a function beyond being an ornament in a field. To pull, to breed, to ride etc.... the horse has a purpose which is why you own it. Whilst the horse is within the bounds of being fit and able to perform functions the horse should perform those functions - that's the benefit that you get from the investment in time and money (quite a lot of both for horses) in the horse. 


So when they see a horse which has potential and is of able body and training (or suitable to train) they consider it strange that a person continues to invest in the animal without getting a return on that investment. Furthermore many might also be in a position where they could not even dream of affording to keep an animal that isn't working for them; so there's a touch of jealousy at times involved as well.


For those who train they can often see potential in an animal and thus feel like its a waste to see a horse who could become a strong competitor wasting away doing nothing; even more so if they trained the horse themselves and see that investment in their time and training going to waste (yes its your horse; yes they sold it; but that doesn't change the hours that they - or someone - put into the horse to get it to a certain level). 

Some also see horses and working with them as the whole point of owning a horse, so to have little to no involvement is a hard thing for them to grasp. that someone is willing to pay and spend time on an animal without getting the experience that they enjoy themselves is also baffling. Some also see that restraint on the part of some owners as a fear-barrier. That some own a horse but lack the confidence to actually go out and ride; or they tried and failed early and thus the horse becomes an ornament that they are committed to. 

Retirement at old age or injury is often the only time the "wasting away" people allow a horse to be a horse in a field and nothing more; although most would discourage people from retiring a horse early or from purchasing a young horse to retire by intent. 



In the end if the horse is well treated; happy and has a good quality of life then its the owners choice and others can have their say and viewpoint but its just that, a viewpoint. 
I fully agree if the horse is being kept in a state where it has a very poor quality of life then there are due cause for concern.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

My neighbor has three horses and doesn't ride any of them. Well, one is supposed to be her riding horse, but it's been nearly a year since she got on him.

For them, it's a combination of having one horse that is 31 and has Cushing's, one that was supposed to be a husband horse, but turned out to be far too much horse for him, and one the owner having had a fall last year, having injured her back, and now being timid about riding again. This a mature, retired couple. The horses are their hobby. Even hubby really enjoys being with the horses and looking after them, but not riding so much. Lucky for us, they have an indoor they don't use so we borrow it sometimes! In exchange for barn chores and the occasional gift. 

These three horses have excellent care, a big pasture, all the medicine, hoof care, and feed they need. Their owners do interact with them, even if they don't ride them. How is that a waste? Everyone is happy. Who is anyone else to judge? 

Does everyone who owns a dog work it? Or do they just like having them around? In the vast majority of cases, it's the latter, yet you don't hear people saying it's too bad that standard apricot poodle isn't out hunting since that's what it's bred for!


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## Chasin Ponies (Dec 25, 2013)

I get so tired of people who think that a horse's aim in life is work. Feeling sorry for those poor bored horses. Those pasture pets are some of the most contented horses I know.

A horse's true motivation is a nice safe place to live (preferably with a buddy or several), and basic care with plenty of fresh water and food. They don't wait anxiously for someone to come throw a saddle on them.

I have nothing but respect for owners who keep their horses even when they don't ride or the horse has lost it's ability to work. It sure beats the alternative of dumping them on the market or the local slaughter pen. At least half of the horse owners I know never ever ride or work their horses in any way. They simply like or love horses and like having them around.

And in the end, is it really anyone else's business?


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

What's with these "keep your nose out of other people's business" threads? Is there an epidemic of nosiness happening? Your money, your horses. I wouldn't even give it second thought if I were you.

I bet if my mare could talk she would choose that lifestyle.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Horsef said:


> What's with these "keep your nose out of other people's business" threads? Is there an epidemic of nosiness happening?


I think people have lost their filters (along with their minds). They have a tendency to just let stuff fall out of their mouths that, if their brains were at all engaged, would get stopped before it came out. And yes, there is a SERIOUS nosiness epidemic.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Chasin Ponies said:


> I get so tired of people who think that a horse's aim in life is work.


A horse's *aim* in life is to be a contented horse. 

A domestic horse's *purpose* in life is a whole nother thing. It is what *we* feel its purpose is. Sorry but that's how it is. If we feel its purpose is to pull a buggy until it's too old, then that's what its purpose is. If we feel its purpose is to look pretty in a pasture, then _that's_ what its purpose is. 

Everything we do that affects other people is other people's business, and it's surprising just how much we do affects other people. Are you letting your pastures erode, or are you letting your horses pollute a creek? Are you using feed for your useless horses that could otherwise be fed to edible livestock? There is very little that is truly 'nobody's business' in interconnected human societies, to say nothing of the ecosystems we and all other life depend on. 

Anyway if you post a discussion question on an international public internet board with thousands of members, privacy doesn't have a place at the table. Especially when it's about horses!


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Zexious said:


> Questions like this never made sense to me: Why do people bother themselves with things that don't concern them?
> 
> In my opinion, what an individual does with their horses, their money, and their time is none of anyone else's concern (provided there is no abuse/neglect happening, of course).


Because we are all connected to each other, whether we want to be or not.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

TribalHorse21 said:


> So what are your thoughts on owning but not riding a horse?



I think it is absolutely ok. We have had several minis over the years, and they have never been ridden.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> I think people have lost their filters (along with their minds). They have a tendency to just let stuff fall out of their mouths that, if their brains were at all engaged, would get stopped before it came out. And yes, there is a SERIOUS nosiness epidemic.


Where's the love button?

The extent of my nosiness... well, honestly it's not even nosiness, more irritation/annoyance that I never voice. Sometimes there are situations where I should speak up, yet stay silent.

Anyway, the extent of my annoyance mainly applies to horses that literally live their entire lives in small stalls or pens and never get let out, not allowed to live as a horse should, etc. It is FAR too common in my area. Knew a 13hh pony stud that lived in a 12x12 stall. He would get let out a grand total of about 3 times a year, and at that only into a small round pen. The stall was never cleaned. Anyone who would climb in there with him would be risking life and limb, as he was absolutely nuts from being locked up all the time.
I've seen a lot of other instances of this. I have a serious problem with the solitary confinement thing. That is a side topic though.

As I said before, as long as the horse is well cared for, I don't consider it any of my business.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

I personally don't see anything wrong with keeping horses and not riding them as long as they have enough room to roam and keep themselves entertained. If they are in good shape from self exercise then I see no harm.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

My 23 yr old is very ridable --- broke to death carry you on a ledge trail horse. He enjoys around 18 acres of pasture all day long and comes in at night.

My 21 yr old is seriously insulin resistant. To say he is an expensive special needs horse is an understatement. He lives on about 4-1/2 acres and also comes in to a clean stall, hay and water every night. He is also a broke to death trail horse.

They are on my property.

Neither of them have been ridden more than a few minutes and a handful of times since 2006. That's because I can't ride like I used to. That doesn't mean they are neglected. -- nothing is further from the truth --- half the horse people in my county want to be my horses. 

I have already laid my two elder horses to rest. These remaining two are on my property until their end times and will be buried next to the others.

I have paid for my own horses non-stop for 58 years. It NEVER HAS been all about the riding -- riding was the decoration on the icing.

I agree a horse living in a stall and a small dirt lot with nothing to look forward to, is going to waste. My horses, along with many others whose owners have posted on this thread, are living The Good Life. I spend 2-4 hours most every day just BEING with my horses. 

Those folks who think it's a waste of time to own a horse and not ride, dont get "it". 

I still remember when foals were born on granddad's farm, he would bring the recent newborns, of the accommodating mare, into the house and set them beside great-grandmother's rocking chair for her to love on. In his fading years, he would sit out back and watch his last two horses (and they were ridable) grazing in the pasture.

"If you think a horse is being wasted simply because it isn't ridden ---- you clearly don't get it".


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## 6gun Kid (Feb 26, 2013)

tell 'em to kiss ya, where the good Lord split ya and move on!


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I didn't read all the comments. It drives me nuts when people criticize other people about riding time when the horses are cared for.

If a horse is well cared for and has appropriate accommodations, the owner can afford to pay for it... then how is that a waste of an animal? That always drives me nuts.

I have a 33 year old that hasn't been ridden in at LEAST five years. But I rode him from teen years, through my twenty's and late thirties... He deserves the pasture puff life!

So my take on it is... unless you have plans to sell a horse and make a profit... then do what you want with him as long as it's humane, paid for, healthy, safe... and happy....


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

At the end of the day, as long as you are taking care of them I don't see what the big deal is.  They are your horses.
If I don't have time to ride Redz (or if it's raining etc.) I still go and hangout with him, sometimes that's way more fun & rewarding than being in the saddle!


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## Sherian (Aug 28, 2012)

I have no issue with people keeping horses as pets as long as they are well looked after including training. The ones that **** me off me are the people who end up with a foal, never do anything with it, and then when its 10 yrs old, not even halter broke and never had any care beyond a hay bale and a pond to drink out of decide to try and sell it to a "forever home only" cause they loooove precious pony. Horses need a good resume now days to be safe, and no matter how good your intentions to keep them forever crap happens.


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## Decalcomania (May 1, 2017)

Avna said:


> I also see nothing deeply wrong with euthanizing unrideable horses, either.


Are you serious? (No offense but I am shocked by that remark).

Why would you kill a horse just because you can't ride it. Don't you value the life of the horse by more factors then just your own riding pleasure? It is a living creature and it deserves to life for as long as it can have a healthy lifestyle in which it can roam around freely and have contact with other horses (whether that is provided by yourself or by another person). 

Now to give my opinion on the question. If your horse is happy, has social contact with other horses, has plenty of hours to roam in pastures (preferably 24h if possible), then nobody should be telling you how you keep your horses or what you do with them. I bet the horses are way happier like that. So don't care too much about what other people say and just think about what is best for your horse.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Decalcomania said:


> Are you serious? (No offense but I am shocked by that remark).
> 
> Why would you kill a horse just because you can't ride it. Don't you value the life of the horse by more factors then just your own riding pleasure? It is a living creature and it deserves to life for as long as it can have a healthy lifestyle in which it can roam around freely and have contact with other horses (whether that is provided by yourself or by another person).


Yes, I do. But unrideable horses are very often neglected horses, starved horses, abandoned horses. I personally have the funds and knowledge and will to care for my horse to the end of her days, _but very few people are in my position._ Horses are not dogs. They are very expensive to keep and they need way more room to be comfortable than most people have access to. I am practical, not romantic. There are thousands upon thousands of horses with no possibility of being kept the way you describe. 

Romantic ideas about animals cause enormous suffering if not backed up with hard-headed realism. I could tell you a hundred stories, all perfectly true.


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## horseylover1_1 (Feb 13, 2008)

I think a lot of it depends on the horse.

Just like people, some horses LOVE to work and have a job. Maybe it's not being ridden - maybe they like to be driven, or used in other types of farm work, some horses are even used in place of seeing eye dogs, etc. Some horses are content to spend their days blissfully eating and not having a care in the world. 

To anyone that is saying anything negative, I would mention that while most dog breeds were bred to work, most people just have them as companion animals/pets. If the person has a working dog breed (i.e. sheepdog) the analogy will probably really hit home.

Ultimately if the horse is healthy and well taken care of, who is anyone to say what should be done with him/her?


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## Decalcomania (May 1, 2017)

Avna said:


> Yes, I do. But unrideable horses are very often neglected horses, starved horses, abandoned horses. I personally have the funds and knowledge and will to care for my horse to the end of her days, _but very few people are in my position._ Horses are not dogs. They are very expensive to keep and they need way more room to be comfortable than most people have access to. I am practical, not romantic. There are thousands upon thousands of horses with no possibility of being kept the way you describe.
> 
> Romantic ideas about animals cause enormous suffering if not backed up with hard-headed realism. I could tell you a hundred stories, all perfectly true.


Well I am more of the idea that you only get a horse if you can provide for it well. If that situation would change after i got a horse then I would look for a good home that can provide it. But in this context just saying that you would kill a horse just because you can't ride it is too little information or I didn't think of it as well connected to a horse well being. I think that in no circumstances it is alright to just kill a horse unless the horse it's quality of live is so bad and there is no way it can ever improve. You can only kill a horse once. While if it was to live then at any time given that horse can 'escape' the situation (if the owner is being made aware of the problem or decides to sell it). I know that having a horse outside 24h is nearly impossible for most people but a lot of people take that as excuse instead of trying harder for their horse. Or they just don't know about the fact that it would be better for the horse because they only have seen horses being locked up in stables. I don't think that advising people to strive after that situation is wrong, in fact maybe by saying it and talking about it like it is the norm (which it should be) maybe more people will try to achieve it. 

But in any case about your reply I think there was some miscommunication so I m glad that you could elaborate on it and make it more clear. I see your point, I understand it but I don't think that is the way (just my opinion).


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## Decalcomania (May 1, 2017)

Avna said:


> Yes, I do. But unrideable horses are very often neglected horses, starved horses, abandoned horses. I personally have the funds and knowledge and will to care for my horse to the end of her days, _but very few people are in my position._ Horses are not dogs. They are very expensive to keep and they need way more room to be comfortable than most people have access to. I am practical, not romantic. There are thousands upon thousands of horses with no possibility of being kept the way you describe.
> 
> Romantic ideas about animals cause enormous suffering if not backed up with hard-headed realism. I could tell you a hundred stories, all perfectly true.


Well I am more of the idea that you only get a horse if you can provide for it well. If that situation would change after i got a horse then I would look for a good home that can provide it. But in this context just saying that you would kill a horse just because you can't ride it is too little information or I didn't think it was well connected to the well being of the horse. I think that in no circumstances it is alright to just kill a horse unless the horse it's quality of live is so bad and there is no way it can ever improve. You can only kill a horse once. While if it was to live then at any time given that horse can 'escape' the situation (if the owner is being made aware of the problem or decides to sell it). I know that having a horse outside 24h is nearly impossible for most people but a lot of people take that as excuse instead of trying harder for their horse. Or they just don't know about the fact that it would be better for the horse because they only have seen horses being locked up in stables. I don't think that advising people to strive after that situation is wrong, in fact maybe by saying it and talking about it like it is the norm (which it should be) maybe more people will try to achieve it. 

But in any case about your reply I think there was some miscommunication so I m glad that you could elaborate on it and make it more clear. I see your point, I understand it but I don't think that is the way (just my opinion).


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

@Decalcomania, I am guessing you are rather young, and have not as much experience of human nature as I have. Or maybe it is different in Belgium. 

My horse began her life by being rescued in utero by the county animal control. A substantial herd of good quality, probably registered, Morgans had been abandoned and left to starve. The owner was never found. My trailer I got for cheap because an animal hoarder was selling it and needed money fast, she was in bankruptcy and had lost her job, her husband, and her property was in foreclosure, because of her animal hoarding. I bet both those people started out with great intentions, worthy goals. 

Saying people "should" be humane, responsible, solvent, continually trying to better their animal care, or even just have a smattering of common sense, is not the same as making that be so. That is all I'm trying to say here.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

"everything we do that affects other people is other people's business, and it's surprising just how much we do affects other people. Are you letting your pastures erode, or are you letting your horses pollute a creek? Are you using feed for your useless horses that could otherwise be fed to edible livestock? There is very little that is truly 'nobody's business' in interconnected human societies, to say nothing of the ecosystems we and all other life depend on."
Avna this was a qoute from your comment. \My response to your comment is : Nothing I do is any body elses business. period. If I want my pastures to turn into dry lots it is no one elses business. 
I am not near a creek and I agree with the do not pollute a creek. 
I pay for the hay I feed and feeding a horse rideable or not, is feeding hay that could be fed to 'edible livestock'. Again this is no ones business,as it is no ones business how much hay I buy, what I pay for my hay, where I buy my hay . I feed an edible livestock, sheep, that will never be eaten. It is also a pet. Anyone who comes onto my property and starts to question my animals etc, they would be escorted off my property in a hot minute.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

stevenson said:


> "everything we do that affects other people is other people's business, and it's surprising just how much we do affects other people. Are you letting your pastures erode, or are you letting your horses pollute a creek? Are you using feed for your useless horses that could otherwise be fed to edible livestock? There is very little that is truly 'nobody's business' in interconnected human societies, to say nothing of the ecosystems we and all other life depend on."
> Avna this was a qoute from your comment. \My response to your comment is : Nothing I do is any body elses business. period. If I want my pastures to turn into dry lots it is no one elses business.
> I am not near a creek and I agree with the do not pollute a creek.
> I pay for the hay I feed and feeding a horse rideable or not, is feeding hay that could be fed to 'edible livestock'. Again this is no ones business,as it is no ones business how much hay I buy, what I pay for my hay, where I buy my hay . I feed an edible livestock, sheep, that will never be eaten. It is also a pet. Anyone who comes onto my property and starts to question my animals etc, they would be escorted off my property in a hot minute.



This is a political/cultural difference. In the world as a whole, there is a sort of axis line, with cultural views ranging from total emphasis on the community, one's responsibility towards others and to the community as a whole, to total emphasis on the individual, their freedom to do whatever they want whenever and wherever they want. As a culture, America is the farthest toward the latter end of all the cultures in the world today, that I am aware of. I myself think there is a balance, and the US is way out of balance in that respect. That is my opinion. But this is veering rapidly toward a discussion subject which is forbidden on this board, so I'm not taking this any farther.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

@Avna -- With all due respect, your response to my post sounds like an incredible copout. 
In fact, I'm not even sure what you mean by "we are all connected to each other, whether we want to be or not." Are you suggesting that all humans have some sort of inherent kinship based on our shared specie? Is this a commentary on high cognition? Or are you just saying that all living things share the same space, and have a connection based on this? When and where does this implied connection stop, or begin? That is, should we all be equally as up in arms over a vehicle that the owner doesn't drive? What about an elderly herding dog that can no longer safely do his job; what are our connected thoughts on that? 

I guess I'm just not understanding what you mean with this comment, how it bolsters your point of view, or your reasoning behind it.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

I am not really arguing with you, at least the way you think I am. I am in full agreement that animals under our care --- as long as they are being cared for well -- are not in need of any outside assistance, and their owners should have full freedom to care for them as they wish. However, that is a very sticky subject indeed, as there is little agreement on what "cared for well" actually is. One person's "everything is perfectly fine" is another person's tragically unnecessary suffering. In the modern era, trying to find that balance has been quite, um, lively. Just letting people take care of their own animals their own way is not sufficient, as in quite a few cases I know about personally, as I mentioned earlier. On the other side, there has come into being a whole movement of "animal rescuers" who can be like crazy vigilantes acting out some bizarre hero-vision of themselves. Sometimes abuse and rescue becomes one and the same thing. 

We decided, back in the 19th century, that the community also has some responsibility for the way animals are treated. That's why there is such a thing as the SPCA, county animal control, etc. But it's getting really complicated now.

As far as all life being connected, with everything anyone does having some effect, however slight, on everything else, well, that is is a spiritual and ecological fact. No one can separate themselves from the world they live in. Almost no one can separate themselves from the human community around them. That's a fact, it's not a belief or an opinion. What one chooses to do with that fact is another thing.

The question of whether someone who has the means and the will to do so should keep horses in a pasture without riding them is a shallow one -- why should they not, for pete's sake? I can't think of a single reason.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

TribalHorse21 said:


> So what are your thoughts on owning but not riding a horse?


My guess is that they need enough exercise to keep their muscles. Horses in the wild don't get ridden either, but they also cover endless miles a day grazing. You didn't mention anything about keeping the non-ridden horses active and in shape, so that would be my only concern.

Case in point: There is an elderly OTTB at my barn who doesn't get ridden a lot. He's not forgotten he's a race horse, but he needs quiet hands and feet, otherwise he'll get frustrated and "show you the dance of his people". (Look up that meme, it's really funny!) Well, long story short, my instructor put us in the arena for 20 mins, then she sent me out on a trail ride with her son, and the next time I was out on him solo. She recently commented how his topline had filled in since he's been ridden again. So, horses that don't get ridden and don't get exercised and don't walk dozens of miles daily grazing may indeed atrophy.


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## Decalcomania (May 1, 2017)

I don't think my age or where I was born and raised has much to do with my answer. I just hate how people seem to easily throw away a life (whether that is a horse's life or a dog's or cat's or any other animal). I think it is okay to euthanize a horse because it is in pain that prevents it from having a good life where it can do normal horse behaviour and will be so for the rest of it's life. But I do not, in any situation, condone killing a horse because of bad behaviour, because you can't take care of it anymore, because it has become too expensive,... Because those are situations that can be changed. And this is not me being romantic about horses because it is a real tragedy that these things happen to horses in real life. I am not saying that people should only get a horse if they can give it 24 hours pasture. I know that it is very hard to give that but I am saying that people should strive for that and if they can't they should give their horse enough stimulus to prevent it from being bored and to give it at least some time with other horses. Like that is basic (or should be basic for horses). If you don't have the money, the time, the knowledge,.. to take good care of a horse then you have no business owning a horse. That is my opinion and I stand by it.


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

A friend of mine has a lovely QH mare that she never rides. This horse has some amazing training on her and the one time I got to ride her I could tell she was an athlete who loved to work. But she's not my horse. And my friend loves her. She gets groomed, fed, cuddled and has 40 acres of lovely grass and a herd of other horses to run around and play with. Do I think it a waste that this horse isn't being used? Yes - but that's just because ~I~ _want _that horse!! Do I think the horse is unhappy being a horse with lots of room and buddies and food? Nope. I think she's perfectly content with her lot. 

Another friend (years ago) had a horse that was completely sound, absolutely stunning to look at, and totally insane. Dangerous. Unpredictable. This friend was a Very accomplished horseman with years and years of training experience. He'd taken in this horse because he believed he could 'fix' it. He was wrong. After a year of trying, and a few very close calls, he made the hard decision to put that gelding down. He had the space and the money to keep him as a forever pasture horse, but then he'd be in danger every time he had to go into that field. Not to mention the risk of injury to the other horses. It was the right decision. 

Sometimes, like my friend with the mare, waste is in the eye of the beholder (me) only because we are envious of what WE could do with that horse. Do I begrudge her choice? No. She paid for the horse, she loves her and the horse is well cared for. On the other hand, I do not consider it a waste to euthanize an animal that is a danger to people, other horses and itself. Maybe if he could have been released to the wild he could have lived the life of a horse, but the law says we can't turn a 'bred' horse into a mustang.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Nothing wrong with keeping horses and not riding them. I have 3 horses, all are ridden regularly, I try to ride all of them everyday, but mostly can do 2. I personally believe, like humans, horses should be fit and exercise to get the heart rate up everyday. However, not all people exercise to that degree and that's fine, their lifestyle, their horses, it's just not my cup of tea.


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

Horses don't care. Give them their basic needs and they are content to live out their days. 

Some will be enriched further. Both of my horses are complete pocket pets. My WB loves to he around people, and is ambivalent about riding. To him, have someone love on him is better than just being on pasture. Other horse loves to be ridden and do stuff. But they are still happy to be horses in the pasture. 

They don't think about life and the future, they're just horses.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Decalcomania said:


> Are you serious? (No offense but I am shocked by that remark).
> 
> Why would you kill a horse just because you can't ride it. Don't you value the life of the horse by more factors then just your own riding pleasure? It is a living creature and it deserves to life for as long as it can have a healthy lifestyle in which it can roam around freely and have contact with other horses (whether that is provided by yourself or by another person).
> 
> Now to give my opinion on the question. If your horse is happy, has social contact with other horses, has plenty of hours to roam in pastures (preferably 24h if possible), then nobody should be telling you how you keep your horses or what you do with them. I bet the horses are way happier like that. So don't care too much about what other people say and just think about what is best for your horse.


In my world, an expensive upkeep animal like a horse has to work, otherwise I will euth them. Do I take care of my horses, you betcha, I keep them healthy and fit and athletic just like I care for myself, no one sits around. However, I have kept a horse that was unrideable and elderly because I loved him too much to say good bye, but when his pain got too much, we called the vet and set him free. If I could be guaranteed a so called "forever home" to an unsound, unrideable horse, sure I would choose that option, but those are far and few between. I am pragmatic.


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

I also don't see anything wrong with euthanizing a horse who is otherwise healthy. I maybe wouldn't do it myself without extrenous circumstances, but I wont condemn someone for it. It's our own emotions and sense of meaning that clouds it. The horse doesn't care about what he's doing tomorrow, what he wants to do in life, all that is possible. 

If a horse has behavioral problems? Potential low grade health problems that create more work but are not debilitating? It can be hard time find homes for these horses, especially on short notice. 

Not everyone thinks of life having meaning in the same way. Life isn't special, it's everywhere.


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

I guess it depends on what you mean when you say pasture puff or pet. 
I think its fine to keep horses just for the joy of being around them even if you don't ride. I hope to continue to have horses even when I reach a point where I can't ride. I love riding, but I would keep Willow, even if all we could do together was walk down the street with her on a lead rope.
But as someone who has helped rehome some very spoiled pasture pets for other folks, it's is your responsibility as an owner to insure your pet is a safe, well adjusted, good citizen. You should still handle your horse enough that they can be medically treated when needed, are respectful, and comfortable with people and new situations.


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## Decalcomania (May 1, 2017)

waresbear said:


> In my world, an expensive upkeep animal like a horse has to work, otherwise I will euth them. Do I take care of my horses, you betcha, I keep them healthy and fit and athletic just like I care for myself, no one sits around. However, I have kept a horse that was unrideable and elderly because I loved him too much to say good bye, but when his pain got too much, we called the vet and set him free. If I could be guaranteed a so called "forever home" to an unsound, unrideable horse, sure I would choose that option, but those are far and few between. I am pragmatic.


But don't you care that it is a living being? When I buy a horse it will be for the rest of it's life. (Unless I can't afford it anymore and then I will sell it to people who can guarantee me that it is a good home. But I won't rush into buying a horse so hopefully I can prevent that situation). If my horse turns out to be unrideable or have some other behaviour that I don't want then I'll work on it with him (if necessary with professional help) so we can get through it. I won't just kill it or resell it, because whatever is making the horse behave like that is either my fault or the previous owners fault for not understanding and I don't want my horse to pay the price for something that is not its fault. And when it gets too old to ride then I can walk with it, maybe use it to help train a younger horse, or just let it enjoy it's old day. Because it has has always allowed me to ride it, because I care for it or just because it is still alive and healthy. And just like you did with your horse I will only euthanize it when something happened that prevents the horse from being healthy ever again and prevents my horse from having a fulfilling live (for a horse it's standard, not for a human's standard. So when it can't do natural horse behaviour anymore). I mean that is my take on it but I do think that is the best for the horse and I wish more people shared my view on it. If there is a better view on it for the horse's well being then I'll change my view but I won't do it for money or for my own riding pleasure.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

I have bought & retrained many horses that were considered "meat horses" in years gone by, I would retrain them and sell them, so besides making a bit of money (I could have made way more waitressing or something like that), I was saving horses' lives, that I consider more humane and productive than keeping a rogue or debilitated horse. I can say I would euth an unrideable horse, however I have never done that, all my personal horses were sold while they still had value and someone wanted them except the one, which was my daughter's horse anyways. I have three horses now, all are very rideable and if one becomes unsound, I say I would euth but unless they are in pain, I don't know if I could, but I have no problem with a humane end.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

I don't think it's a big deal to have horses and not ride them if that is what you choose to do. Not everyone is in to horses just to ride. 

The first place that I kept my horses at, the B/O hardly ever rode. She just wasn't into it. She let other people ride them if they wanted to but she didn't ride. She knew how, was competent and all but her preference was to care for them, do ground work and just be with them. She had plenty of pasture for them if not another soul climbed up on their backs. 
I don't think that she ever thought of it as being a waste of horse and they were nice horses too. The horses didn't care. They were ridden sometimes, not ridden sometimes or whatever. They got fed everyday, they were with their buddies and life was good.

People never do anything for no reason at all. They are always getting something from it. One person can completely enjoy just hanging out with an animal and be perfectly content with it. Another can't see spending the money unless they are riding, hanging out is not their thing. I certainly don't think the horse cares if they are just hanging out. In general, a horse working does have a tendency to be a little better behaved with people though.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

<snip>


Decalcomania said:


> When I buy a horse it will be for the rest of it's life. .


</snip>

Sorry, but you have absolutely no way of knowing this. Lots of people think this very thought, and then life hands them a curve ball. There are all kinds of circumstances which would either keep you from fulfilling that goal, or make you utterly miserable trying to. It's a romantic impractical idea based on inexperience. 

I *would like to* and *intend to try to* keep my horse all her life. But if it turns out that something else makes better sense, I'm not going to beat my breast and wail about it. Horses change owners with little fuss all the time.


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## Decalcomania (May 1, 2017)

Avna said:


> <snip></snip>
> 
> Sorry, but you have absolutely no way of knowing this. Lots of people think this very thought, and then life hands them a curve ball. There are all kinds of circumstances which would either keep you from fulfilling that goal, or make you utterly miserable trying to. It's a romantic impractical idea based on inexperience.
> 
> I *would like to* and *intend to try to* keep my horse all her life. But if it turns out that something else makes better sense, I'm not going to beat my breast and wail about it. Horses change owners with little fuss all the time.


You quote of me is too short. If you read further then you'll see "When I buy a horse it will be for the rest of it's life. (Unless I can't afford it anymore and then I will sell it to people who can guarantee me that it is a good home. But I won't rush into buying a horse so  hopefully I can prevent that situation)". I know life can and will change and things won't go the way I plan them. But I still would place my horses well being first. And I can't do that if the horse is dead. Unless living is worse then death and in a way that his state will remain for as long as he lives then I'll put them out of their misery but anything that doesn't fall under that situation is unacceptable for me to put a horse down. I'd rather give up my horse to another owner (provided that it is a good home) then to kill it. I really won't change my mind on this. And I hope that it never will in the future either.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Decalcomania said:


> You quote of me is too short. If you read further then you'll see "When I buy a horse it will be for the rest of it's life. *(Unless I can't afford it anymore and then I will sell it to people who can guarantee me that it is a good home*. But I won't rush into buying a horse so hopefully I can prevent that situation)". I know life can and will change and things won't go the way I plan them. But I still would place my horses well being first. And I can't do that if the horse is dead. Unless living is worse then death and in a way that his state will remain for as long as he lives then I'll put them out of their misery but anything that doesn't fall under that situation is unacceptable for me to put a horse down. I'd rather give up my horse to another owner (provided that it is a good home) then to kill it. I really won't change my mind on this. And I hope that it never will in the future either.


That's just it, they can guarantee you all you want, doesn't mean it's true because of several reasons. One person's idea of a good home does not always coincide with another person's. People lie. You can find it the best of homes but then something happens in that person's life and they need to rehome it and who knows to where. Once that horse is sold you no longer have any control about what happens to it. I have a few horses that I would rather have put down, if for some reason I could no longer care for them, than to send out into the unknown even though there's not a thing wrong with them. The way I look at is that they have earned the right to have just as happy of an ending as they did all their previous life. The absolutely only way I can guarantee that is by having them euthanized.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I think when someone says they will keep their horses "forever" it goes without saying that life could throw them a curve ball at some point. But that doesn't mean they won't do what they can to keep their horse. It is their _intention_ to keep the horse forever, and really, that's the best anyone can do in this life.

If you had to have a crystal ball and see into your entire life before you could own a horse or anything, well, that's just not realistic. We can only do the best we can do. If that were the requirement nobody would ever choose to have kids either, because we can't know exactly what our future will hold. 

So yes, I am one of those that hopes to keep my horses "forever." I love them like family and never plan to sell them. But of course something bad could happen. We can't control all the variables in life. If given a choice, I would hope to give them to the right home. Getting the right home for them is more important than a few hundred dollars.

So those are my thoughts on keeping horses "forever."


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Very few horses today are working animals. What is work for them is recreation for us. So to say a horse has to work for you and earn it's keep really only means that the particular activity you are doing with the horse is more important than the horse itself..........if you get rid of it because it can no longer perform the task. I'm not saying that is necessarily wrong. Horses ARE high maintenance. But I don't get the lack of loyalty. Wouldn't you feel guilty? It would be like if your dog got old and could no longer go jogging with you so you traded it in for a puppy. Wouldn't you feel bad?

I know the frequent response is "horses are livestock." But dogs are for our pleasure. And horses are for our pleasure (unless they are the rare working animal). So to me there isn't a difference. 

I understand if life happens. Circumstances change. But I don't understand lack of loyalty to a horse that can be no longer be ridden. Why is it's life no longer important to the owner, who presumably got some pleasure out of the horse at one time. :shrug:

I'm not against euthanasia. That is what should be done when a horse no longer has a good quality of life. I just don't get the "horse has to be earning it's keep" thing. I mean, maybe the horse DID earn it's keep and now it's retired. Maybe it's earning it's keep just by giving someone pleasure by gracing the yard or getting groomed. I get a lot of enjoyment out of horses just feeding them carrots. :wink:


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## Decalcomania (May 1, 2017)

JCnGrace said:


> That's just it, they can guarantee you all you want, doesn't mean it's true because of several reasons. One person's idea of a good home does not always coincide with another person's. People lie. You can find it the best of homes but then something happens in that person's life and they need to rehome it and who knows to where. Once that horse is sold you no longer have any control about what happens to it. I have a few horses that I would rather have put down, if for some reason I could no longer care for them, than to send out into the unknown even though there's not a thing wrong with them. The way I look at is that they have earned the right to have just as happy of an ending as they did all their previous life. The absolutely only way I can guarantee that is by having them euthanized.


Well I am not just going to take someone's word for it. I would want to check out their place and ask to stay in touch after selling. Yeah they can totally bail out on me after that but if my horse has even a small chance of getting a good life then I am willing to take it. Besides just having a good conversation on horses should give an idea on how they perceive horses, horse riding, horse handling,... It won't be easy but I'll put in the effort to do it. Killing them seems the easy way out to me. I just wouldn't be able to life with myself if I were to slaughter a perfectly fine horse that still has the capability to have a good life. That is just my point of view on it.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Decalcomania, lets say you have this horse and it's only pasture sound and you lose your job and can no longer afford the vet bills this horse requires, nor the feed it consumes.....You tell me who is going to take your unrideable, expensive upkeep horse and continue to take care of it? Likely, nobody, maybe someone for a companion animal if you're are lucky, but those free companion horses usually end up as dog food in the end. Reason why I would euth an unrideable horse, a humane end is ensured, I don't any horse that I know, going through a sale and then transported to a slaughterhouse.


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