# Working for Board, Need Advice



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Either B or D, with me leaning heavily toward D. Unless you have something in writing, which it sounds like you don't, your best option is to walk away before you get too emotionally vested.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I agree with the above. You agreed on three days a week... but she's changing it now? That's a red flag to me.
If you do choose to go with B, please get something in writing so she can't pull this again later down the line.


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## Raven13 (Apr 12, 2013)

Thank you for your responses. I guess part of what I'm trying to ask but didn't is, is the work I'm doing already with the 3 days fair for what I'm getting in return? If it helps I've also agreed to do all the care, morning feed, turn out etc for the weekend or longer if she ever goes out of town. What made me say I'd see what I could do instead of wait a minute was I didn't want her to think I was trying to get something for nothing/not enough.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I think that depends on what kinds of amenities are offered at the facility, and what board usually costs per month. 
Try breaking it down into hours. Figure out how many hours you work per day--then per week. How much does she charge per board? Use those numbers to get some monetary value, and decide for yourself (or in discussion with her, if you're comfortable with that) if it's fair.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Reading from the beginning I saw so many red flags at every turn. I would not do a 4th day. She may want extra because TB typically eat more. I would get everything spelled out at the 3 days and if you can't work it out move on.


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

My experience is that anyone getting something for free eventually just wants more stuff for free. You agreed to something and now it's not OK? That's just an indication that she'll try to find more ways to bleed you if you continue the relationship with her. I'd stop doing the free work today and find another place to work.


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## Raven13 (Apr 12, 2013)

Zexious said:


> I think that depends on what kinds of amenities are offered at the facility, and what board usually costs per month.
> Try breaking it down into hours. Figure out how many hours you work per day--then per week. How much does she charge per board? Use those numbers to get some monetary value, and decide for yourself (or in discussion with her, if you're comfortable with that) if it's fair.


She doesn't normally board so I have no normal charge to go off of. She just has a four stall hobby barn on her property and wanted a break from the work to help her out and free her up to spend more time with her kids.

The facility includes the stall which if I had to guess is a 12 x 12, bagged shavings, grass hay that she grows herself, two large (maybe 2 acre a piece) paddocks and one small (60x150?) paddock/grass riding ring. The paddocks are fenced with broad pvc boards, looks like a wooden fence but is hollow plastic. There are a few jumps and a small trail system with access to neighbor's trails. She feeds twice a day 2 flakes/horse/feeding plus grain which I will provide and daily turnout from ~7:30am-5pm, blanketing if required. I have access to the tack room and if needed the bathroom in her house. There is not any hot water, wash stall, or indoor arena.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Raven13 said:


> Thank you for your responses. I guess part of what I'm trying to ask but didn't is, is the work I'm doing already with the 3 days fair for what I'm getting in return? If it helps I've also agreed to do all the care, morning feed, turn out etc for the weekend or longer if she ever goes out of town. What made me say I'd see what I could do instead of wait a minute was I didn't want her to think I was trying to get something for nothing/not enough.


So far you're not the one getting something for nothing & as of yet you have gotten nothing in return.
How much would board be? Asking because I'm wondering how much you actually earn per month working 12 days for her. Horse training should pay a lot more than stall cleaning/feeding.

ETA:Opps, I see this has already been asked.


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## Raven13 (Apr 12, 2013)

Also I work about 3-4 hours each day. About 40min-1 hour cleaning and prepping the stalls for the horses to come in. About 30 minutes cleaning the barn/organizing. Probably 45minutes to an hour trying to catch the horses. (I've tried everything, sneaking, the natural horsemanship way giving and releasing pressure at the right times, I've even tried bribing once but that didn't work they stole the apple an ran... I'm convinced that the owner has spoiled them and caused them to turn catching them into a game because she's even told me that she has a hard time catching them and usually has to catch them before she even opens the gate from over the fence but half the time they run off and she has to bribe them with hay stretcher...) Anyway, after I get them, or rather one of them, I work that horse for probably about an hour, changing direction, respecting my space, working over/through obstacles, giving to pressure, desensitizing. then I cool off for about 10 (the giving to pressure/desensitizing comes at the end of their sessions so they can breathe during that prior to the 10min) and then I brush for about 20min and head home.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

I don't understand why you're working for her for free right now. That needs to be resolved before anything else. If you are working as "pre-paying board", who is keeping track of what 'credit' you've managed to earn so far? How is that determined?

Find another barn. Even if you got the horse there, you're not going to have time to ride if you're spending your free time working at the barn.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

That's what I was thinking. The BO is trying to turn her free help into a barn slave. If you don't get everything clearly written down, and that's both of you, then consider moving on. The 23 yr old horse may have entered the vet bill age as many of the older off track TBs develop arthritis. They are also notorious for not keeping shoes on so hopefully this horse is fine without them. I think you're jumping the gun a bit and are letting your heart rule your head.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

My thoughts when I first started reading this thread were - It sounds too good to be true - free board for 3 days of work. Hay and grain is expensive - I don't think the BO thought this through when you first spoke to her. Mucking out stalls 3 days a week - takes about 3-4 hours - lets say at $10/hour still not enough to pay for hay and grain for a horse that is going to eat about 3 bales plus of hay each week. Hay where I am at (NW IL) is about $4/bale for grass hay so the horse is going to eat $12-$16 worth of hay each week and then she is going to do chores 4 days each week. The BO would be the loser in this situation. With working with her horses she would come out ahead but maybe not that far ahead. I would never work like this without a written agreement.


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## Zimpatico (Nov 5, 2010)

These situations rarely end well. My advice to anyone in this situation is to work for an agreed upon rate of pay, then apply your hours worked towards board. If duties and hours are not VERY clearly defined, the person working always seems to get taken advantage of.


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## Regula (Jan 23, 2012)

I think three days of work for full board sounds fair. I can very much understand her need to get a break from daily chores, but not at your cost. 
I also agree that you should in some way get reimbursed for the work that you are already doing.
I don't think all is lost though. I would re-negotiate and get everything in writing. Are you sure she understood you correctly that you are not bringing a second horse, but just a different one? 
I would also set clear limits as to what you are willing to do. If you want to do three days, then offer that and let her take it or leave it.

For one, I would NOT put up with spending an hour to catch horses, and I don't know any barn staff who ever would. That is ridiculous.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

My trainer is a college student. I pay her $25/hr. Professional trainers in my area are between $40 to $50 per hour. Any other barn work should go at a minimum wage range (note: some states have an "agricultural" minimum wage which is less than the regular minimum wage).

I agree that a 23 year old TB might get really expensive and maybe you should pass on it. However, if you could work out a real written contract with $$ per hour (separate rates for training and for grunt work) and have it applied toward a future horse, it might work. As previously said, be sure it is all in writing and that if you never get a horse to keep there you are reimbursed for your time.

I don't know how many hours you have already worked but You might want to re-think continuing if you are not getting some kind of re-imbursement.

This is an opportunity to learn about contracts. Be prepared for her to NOT like it.


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

You need to get things clear before moving forward.

I'd get a contract and for the first part of that agree to a monthly or weekly fee for boarding. Make it reasonable. That is the amount you pay if you get sick or go on holiday. From there you'll work out if your work is worth what you're getting. Call around and find out the going rate for board with no real riding areas. 

Meanwhile there is no need to work there. It doesn't sound fair at all.


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## weeedlady (Jul 19, 2014)

Option D, without a doubt. 
M


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## tim62988 (Aug 30, 2012)

Option E. find somewhere to work off some lessons. then YOU can decide if you want to work one day a week for 2 hours in exchange for 2 hours of riding, ect.... NO liability to you of the "what if's" of borrowing someone else's animal.

do some lessons, exercise some horses and a lot more black and white


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## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

Whether you stay or go...break it all down into $$ values to make sure you are getting a fair deal. It will make it easier to see where any cash adjustments need to be made. Talk it over with her. Get everything in writing or walk. 


I think you can do better than this, the woman has already moved the goalpost and you don't even have a horse there yet. I think you are being taken advantage of.


If you stay...end now this BS of spending an hour catching her horses. I won't even put up with that for my own!!


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## DressageIsToDance (Jun 10, 2010)

I worked off my board and lessons up until about a year and a half ago. When I started, I was younger and didn't make a lot with my part time job and actually needed to make up the financial difference. It started out as 2 days a week. Then it escalated and about two, maybe two and a half years later, I was doing the majority of the horse care, along with a full time job, not to mention the "maintenance" and "improvement" of the barn as well. I was even in charge of washing and storing the 30-40 blankets of all her boarders at the end of blanketing season!

By the time I put an end to things, I had my own full time job to deal with and I was still trying to hold together my BO's business (which was her only job). It got to the point where it was almost expected of me as some sort of bizarre courtesy. I had a talk with her about starting to pay her for my board and lessons and stop working, explaining my situation was different in life now. I was still pressured to help around the barn, or else catch an attitude.

So I chose to leave rather than try to "cut the cord". I realized she preferred my work over my money, because she had a full barn of paying boarders. I would get the cold shoulder if I wasn't doing her bidding, and that showed through with brilliance at a show before I left her where I was treated with disrespect and lack of importance, despite paying full price rates like everyone else.

Now, your situation is a bit different from mine obviously. But the principal is the same. Exchanging barn work for services is a slippery slope, and when the expected work load begins to increase with little to no return, especially if its presented as an expectation - it's time to run. There's almost nowhere good it can lead.

If you do find a more suitable situation in which to do barn work in exchange for services, get it in writing from the start, and don't do anything "in advance". Neither them doing something for you in advance or you from them. The best chance for the situation to work out well is if neither party owes the other anything if it can be avoided.


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## Raven13 (Apr 12, 2013)

Sorry everyone, I kind of dropped this thread and ran away from the forum again. 

I decided to decline the woman's deal. I did talk to her asking why the sudden change, and she said that she had spoken to her friends who said that when they bring in a boarder in exchange for work they have them do five days. The woman knew I couldn't do five days so that is why she was hoping to get four out of me. I told her four would really be pushing it. 

She tried negotiating for a whole weekends work once a month (in addition to the three other days), Friday evening feed and bringing in the horses, Saturday morning feed and turn out, bringing the pony in early, then the horses in the evening and feeding then Sunday morning feed and turnout. I would not be able to stay on her property and would have to travel to and from her barn for every task on the list. She tried to "remind" me that this was originally part of the plan, but it wasn't. She did originally say it would be a possibility maybe a two or three times a year, but not once a month. The constant change of plans and wishy washiness of the whole situation spooked me off. 

I have had a bit of time to "recover" emotionally from being so close to getting back into horses only to run into a brick wall. I have decided to start up lessons again. I had previously had doubts about starting lessons because of my previous experience with a lesson barn. I only repetitively did walk, trot, canter, and small cross rails set in simple lines or diagonals over and over and over again even after 8 years of riding. I didn't learn to RIDE until I finally switched to my private trainer, but she requires that you have your own horse. That is why I had my heart set on setting up a leasing situation, so I could take lessons from her again.

I did find a private jumpers trainer who is based out of a lesson barn. I actually met her in my travels of trying to find a barn who would be willing to work with me for board. The trainer is the one who point me in the direction of the woman with whom I was trying to work things out. Just from a few minutes of meeting her I could tell that she was a wonderfully sweet and gentle trainer who was truly in it for the love of horses and riding. Her name is Pia Suffolato (formerly Vaske), she is the daughter of international German rider Otto Vaske. I'm very much looking forward to training with her. I go to meet her either Tuesday or Wednesday.


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## Boo Walker (Jul 25, 2012)

I like how you listened to your gut and didn't try to force the situation to work. You'll be a lot happier and sane in the long run!


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

When working off board, you need to calculate your hours at least at min. wage then calculate the board cost. Simple. It's drawn up in a contract. If you weren't trading for board, the BO would have to pay at least min. wage. Labor laws. That said, glad to hear you are steering clear.


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