# 4 yr old OTTB, noodle legs, & my suicide mission



## LostDragonflyWings (Feb 1, 2012)

Okay... not completely.

I wanted to get video of one of our rides, as I have been having issues with my legs (i.e. not having 100% control due to slight numbness from misalignment disc in lower back and sciatic nerve issues). Recently, there hasn't been much pain, but while riding I can tell that my legs aren't "all there". For example, yesterday we were trotting and my right foot from the ankle down became very warm and then went almost completely numb (first time that has happened)... so I just kept riding. :lol:

I have been feeling like my legs look like noodles swinging all over the place, but was pleasantly surprised to see how they actually look on the video. I can tell I need a little more weight in my heels though and probably get my legs a tad bit more under me, which I have been trying to work on regardless of my noodle legs. I have also been working on sitting up straighter instead of leaning forward, as I have been only riding greenies for the past approx. year, so have gotten into some bad habits.

Other than that, we are both up for critique! As a refresher, he just turned 4 in Feb. and has been off the track about 6 months now. I was lucky enough to get some assistance with him by another boarder who rode him for about two weeks a few weeks ago (we horse-swapped), since neither of my horse or myself are in training. He was super strong at the canter (and in general-- which we are still working on at the canter), has a lot of power, and is super, super smart.-- Knows how to try to get out of work, catches on quickly, learns your patterns quickly (i.e. we pick up the canter in corners so he has learned that corners and doing circles means we will probably be cantering... so I have been working on more trotting circles with him to trick his mind off of this. Also, I was sitting the trot before asking to canter as it helped him not rush into it, but he quickly learned that sitting the trot meant canter and when I would change diagnals he would think I was getting ready to canter... so now I do random sitting trot sessions or "post post" "sit sit" "post post", etc. While he does need a lot of work on his canter, I also sometimes don't canter every ride; therefore he knows we are not always going to canter and he can focus on relaxing in the corners and on a circle (you can see this issue in some parts of the videos). :wink:

We are going to his first show next Saturday. We are only going to do walk/trot hunter classes and maybe a walk/trot dressage test. I don't want to ask too much of him on his first time out, and his canter is definately not ready!

Oh, and I also have the worse habit ever of looking down when trying to get him to do something. I am used to riding alone, which doesn't help this problem as I don't have to watch out for others. 

Walking:




 
Trotting:




 
Cantering/Trotting:


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

I like your horse! I think he's lovely! He is nice and forward moving! 

Yes, the canter needs some work, but he doesn't look to out of sorts, just needs to relax a little and everything should fall into place. 
The only thing two things that stood out to me was when you post you seem to be forcing those hips forward, which would lead me to the second thing I saw, I would drop my stirrups another hole so that your not pushed out of the saddle, I think it would improve your seat and not thrown you forward and it would keep you from posting with so much forward hip movement and allow you post a little lower which may help him not feel driven forward......did that make sense!

Good luck with your show!!!


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## LostDragonflyWings (Feb 1, 2012)

Muppetgirl said:


> I like your horse! I think he's lovely! He is nice and forward moving!
> 
> Yes, the canter needs some work, but he doesn't look to out of sorts, just needs to relax a little and everything should fall into place.
> The only thing two things that stood out to me was when you post you seem to be forcing those hips forward, which would lead me to the second thing I saw, I would drop my stirrups another hole so that your not pushed out of the saddle, I think it would improve your seat and not thrown you forward and it would keep you from posting with so much forward hip movement and allow you post a little lower which may help him not feel driven forward......did that make sense!
> ...


Thanks! I will take them down a hole tomorrow and see how that feels. I just put them down a hole the other day as I was trying to fix the issue of my right leg feeling hiked up higher than the left.-- It worked for the most part.


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## LostDragonflyWings (Feb 1, 2012)

Forgot to mention.... We are only using the running martingale to help him realize that it is not okay to throw your head up and evade the bit. He's getting better at not doing that!


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## snickersandme (Sep 24, 2008)

I'm no expert but my instructor is always correcting my elbows (i have terrible elbow position)! I think you need to keep yours a little closer to your sides  
Just trying to help  
Good luck at the show and have fun!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LostDragonflyWings (Feb 1, 2012)

snickersandme said:


> I'm no expert but my instructor is always correcting my elbows (i have terrible elbow position)! I think you need to keep yours a little closer to your sides
> Just trying to help
> Good luck at the show and have fun!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks!

Also, I am hoping the show goes well! I don't care if we place or not, but I just want him to be relaxed. We board at a pretty quiet barn and I am sure there will be a lot of people (horses) at this show, so it will definately be something new for both of us. He still gets a little ansy when other horses canter behind him, so that is another reason we are sticking to walk/trot classes. If he is too anxious when we get there, I could always not do the walk/trot hunter (group) classes and just do the dressage. We shall see!


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## PreciousPony (Feb 15, 2013)

The main thing I noticed is that you need to soften through your arms/elbows. You keep your elbows very locked and stiff. When your horse puts his head down, you tend to move your hands down his neck to follow him, leading you to round your shoulders and put more weight on his forehand. While I would rather see this than someone restricting their horse, it's still not correct. Try keeping your hands and shoulders in the SAME spot, no matter where your horse's head is. In order to stay soft and to keep your hands from moving, you have to soften and bend through your elbow- it's a joint, that's what it's there for!

To get the feel for it, canter your horse and plant your hands slightly in front of the withers. Then feel how your horse's head and neck move up and down. Your hands should follow that motion because your elbow allows them too- you're not physically moving your hands at all. You can practice this at the walk too. It's harder to do at the trot because the horse's head stays in a pretty constant position. This will help you maintain a much steadier contact, and will also help your horse start to trust and accept contact with the bit.

Other than that, work on getting those heels down a little more. Lots of two point should help! I don't think you should drop your stirrups anymore... they're already a bit long for flatwork, which is probably making it harder to get down in your heel because you're already reaching for them a bit.


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## LostDragonflyWings (Feb 1, 2012)

PreciousPony said:


> The main thing I noticed is that you need to soften through your arms/elbows. You keep your elbows very locked and stiff. When your horse puts his head down, you tend to move your hands down his neck to follow him, leading you to round your shoulders and put more weight on his forehand. While I would rather see this than someone restricting their horse, it's still not correct. Try keeping your hands and shoulders in the SAME spot, no matter where your horse's head is. In order to stay soft and to keep your hands from moving, you have to soften and bend through your elbow- it's a joint, that's what it's there for!
> 
> To get the feel for it, canter your horse and plant your hands slightly in front of the withers. Then feel how your horse's head and neck move up and down. Your hands should follow that motion because your elbow allows them too- you're not physically moving your hands at all. You can practice this at the walk too. It's harder to do at the trot because the horse's head stays in a pretty constant position. This will help you maintain a much steadier contact, and will also help your horse start to trust and accept contact with the bit.
> 
> Other than that, work on getting those heels down a little more. Lots of two point should help! I don't think you should drop your stirrups anymore... they're already a bit long for flatwork, which is probably making it harder to get down in your heel because you're already reaching for them a bit.


I actually don't feel/think my arms are locked at all, I just keep them forward like that and my elbows not by my sides (as mentioned above). I know what you mean though about "giving" with my hands in a forward motion instead of just "softening" my hands when he accepts the contact.-- I found it hard to visually see much of that (saw it twice in the trot video) but am aware I am doing it while I ride, so am surprised you were able to pick that out (that's a good thing).

I will eventually try that at the canter, but right now am focusing on sitting up straight and "giving/taking" with my inside rein to help keep him relaxed and at a constant speed. We still have tons of work to do on the canter.

In regards to my heels, I think they have gotten progressively worse because of my leg issue, but will work in the two-point to see if that works. I don't feel like I am fishing for my stirrups, I am just not putting enough weight in my stirrups, because if you look at the walking video, my heels are down more.

Here is the last thread I made (for progress and/or regression comparison):
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding-critique/another-3-yr-old-critique-new-142352/

The trotting pole videos were the most recent prior to this thread, but you can see how much worse my heels have gotten at the trot. My legs still look okay (not floppy like they feel), but I know my heels have suffered!

Thanks for the helpful critique! Anybody else?


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## PreciousPony (Feb 15, 2013)

LostDragonflyWings said:


> I actually don't feel/think my arms are locked at all, I just keep them forward like that and my elbows not by my sides (as mentioned above). I know what you mean though about "giving" with my hands in a forward motion instead of just "softening" my hands when he accepts the contact.-- I found it hard to visually see much of that (saw it twice in the trot video) but am aware I am doing it while I ride, so am surprised you were able to pick that out (that's a good thing).
> 
> I will eventually try that at the canter, but right now am focusing on sitting up straight and "giving/taking" with my inside rein to help keep him relaxed and at a constant speed. We still have tons of work to do on the canter.
> 
> ...


I see it the most in the third video. You're locked up at the start of the video, then you get a little better, then starting at 1:30 you're locking up and leaning forward again. Pause at about 1:43 and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about  When you trot the circle you can again see how your elbows are not bending like they should, and then going down the long side away from the camera your elbows are almost completely straight, no bending in them at all, and you lean forward again. There should be a straight line from head, hip, to heel. Think about that when you are softening.

And I still say you'd have a much more secure position with your stirrups shortened a hole. Yours are currently close to dressage length.


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## PreciousPony (Feb 15, 2013)

This rider has an excellent upper body. She is a great example of having soft hands, relaxed elbows, and still giving her horse his head without rounding her shoulders and leaning forward. Even as her horse puts his head down, she never once loses the bend in her elbows or tips her shoulders forward.


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## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

by your initial post, I half expected to see a horse running around with his head in the air, jaw locked up on the bit, taking you around the arena for a drag! However, in the canter video, while i see an unbalanced horse, i don't see a horse that is a hot mess with his canter! As a matter of fact, he is going around pretty quiet for a 4 year old OTTB. Did you get him from Sarah? Is she helping you with him?


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## LostDragonflyWings (Feb 1, 2012)

Preciouspony, I rewatched the third video yesterday and saw it a few more times. Thanks for the video.

Oxer, yes I did and yes she is! That's why he looks so good, because of his two week bootcamp!


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## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

well congratulations! I am anxious to see his progress!


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## LostDragonflyWings (Feb 1, 2012)

Thank you, Oxer!

Okay, so I think I figured it out (or maybe something completely different.... but a success none the less!).

When I ask him for his head, and he gives it to me, I "give" back too much (PreciousPony, where you said I put my hands forward, loose my shoulders, and lean forward). Today while trying to fix my elbows (don't think I ever 100% accomplished that) I realized what I was doing and allowing him to give me his head but hang on my hands in the process and not be completely soft in his mouth. So, for our whole ride we worked on him giving me his head while I remained constant (i.e. not over-giving back, but just softening), and then him holding his own head in frame while not hanging on my hands a little, but still with contact. We got it quite a few times, but couldn't keep it for long periods of the ride. I can definately tell the difference, and this will be our homework for the week (along with my elbows again, but I think once I fix the contact problem the elbow problem will be easier).

Does this sound like what you thought I was doing, PreciousPony?


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## PreciousPony (Feb 15, 2013)

Well from your description it sounds like you're on the right track! You should *always* have some contact with your horses mouth when working on developing a frame. You should soften instead of completely giving away your contact, while keeping your upper body tall. It might be harder for your horse because he's used to just putting his head down and then getting to pull himself forward by his front end alone. By keeping contact, you're keeping him more engaged, therefore making him work harder. Just make sure you keep him pushing him forward while you maintain contact, otherwise he'll stop using his hind end.


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## LostDragonflyWings (Feb 1, 2012)

PreciousPony said:


> Well from your description it sounds like you're on the right track! You should *always* have some contact with your horses mouth when working on developing a frame. You should soften instead of completely giving away your contact, while keeping your upper body tall. It might be harder for your horse because he's used to just putting his head down and then getting to pull himself forward by his front end alone. By keeping contact, you're keeping him more engaged, therefore making him work harder. Just make sure you keep him pushing him forward while you maintain contact, otherwise he'll stop using his hind end.


Yup, I think that's definitely it. We worked on that again today and after he was ready to listen (thank you cold and windy weather), we got down to business, held the contact longer, and worked on keeping forward. When he was soft and I was not over-giving, I was able to pull my elbows back a little because he wasn't hanging on my hands. I will have to try to get another video of that. Tomorrow we will do the same, but trot poles are also on our agenda! Thanks for pointing that out.

Not to be a pest, but anybody else?


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## LostDragonflyWings (Feb 1, 2012)

Bump? I am sure that is probably not all we need to work on!


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## LostDragonflyWings (Feb 1, 2012)

Over 660 views and only 4 critiques? :shock:


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

The reason the horse is not round is that he is not in front of your leg.

This is really evident in the first walk video. He is doing a death march. Put your heel down, press your stomach towards your hands, rest your hands that they do not interfere and then put a small aid on. If he does not respond, give him a kick and if that doesn't work, then hellfire needs to rain down (some horses this is a tap with a whip, others it requires a bit more force - but however you can do it to make clear to the horse that he does not ignore the leg). Once the horse responds (at whichever level) put your heel down again and reward him. Then, bring him back to walk and repeat as necessary.

Secondly, what is the purpose of trotting around aimlessly for 4:30? And then cantering for over 7:00? Ride with purpose, do transitions and make a difference in the horse's way of going. Transitions are how you are going to get this horse in front of the leg and eventually round. Doing the same thing as above and take your leg off when you are at "cruising speed". Right now you are nagging him constantly and making him ignore you. Press your heels down, press your stomach and pelvis forward and leave your hands resting down. When the horse is forward and in front of you leg, a quiet hand will be enough to get him round.

Also - now is the time to introduce a turn on the forehand. Take them one step at a time and don't over face him with more than a few steps to begin with, eventually add a half turn and eventually a leg yield.

Good luck!


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## LostDragonflyWings (Feb 1, 2012)

Thank you VERY much, Anebel! That is exactly what I was looking for.
We will definately be working on loads of transitions and getting/keeping him in front of my leg, as you described.

I also think I need to invest in a dressage saddle so I can be more with him rather than perched on top. I think it will make matters better for my legs too. I was told it isn't smart to ride a baby in a dressage saddle because then you are screwed if they do something stupid (...?...), but if I am going to fall it is because of my numbing legs, not the type of saddle I am in. Can't say I agree 100% with what I was told about the saddle, but he is pretty sane for a baby anyways so I am not worried.

Will be riding today so will work on your recommendations!

We have been working a lot in the trot, but not tons in the canter. What do you recommend to do to help him with his canter to be more balanced and relaxed? He still anticipates the canter after already cantering so we can not do canter transitions without trotting for about a minute in between to get his mind completely off the idea.


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## LostDragonflyWings (Feb 1, 2012)

This afternoon I slathered Icy Hot onto my lower back (didn't really help, but felt good) and went for a ride. We worked on the fore mentioned suggestions (my arms and him not hang on my hands, etc.) and worked on the new suggestions too (transitions, keeping him infront of my leg, etc.). I also opted to drop my stirrups a hole to see if that helped with my legs (slight numbness=lack of grip) and leaning forward, which I think it did (but had it's downfalls too).

It was a very strenuous workout for both of us. Definately need to work more on our transitions, as he likes to fall onto his forehand and go heavy on the reins, but I kept pushing him forward and we got a few "okay" transitions in (won't said "good" because they were just satisfactory for it being a new exercise for him). While the entire ride FELT LIKE both of us having the urge to fight eachother, we found ways to work it out and by the end of the ride he was definately moving more forward and he was very soft in his mouth, holding himself up.

Once we improve on these issues, I will get another video for critique. Regardless of the stirrup lenght, after riding for a while, I still have issues with weight in my heels due to my legs being progressively more numb the longer I ride. Very frusterating.


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## MillieSantana (Feb 17, 2013)

Ok, at the walk- Your horse looked so relaxed! Nice head carriage(except the few times he pulled down a little) The main thing at the walk is you need longer stirrups. And try raising your hands just a bit.

Trot- Very nice gait! I think you shoved you hips forward to much, try relaxing a bit more and working with your horse's beautiful gait more.

Canter- Give your horse a little more head room, he has an awesome canter! The main thing here is keep your hands still, lower your stirrups, and don't rock your upper body so much. You should only follow your horse's movement with your hips, you upper body should remain still. (Oh, that last part could go for trot to I think)


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## LostDragonflyWings (Feb 1, 2012)

MillieSantana said:


> Ok, at the walk- Your horse looked so relaxed! Nice head carriage(except the few times he pulled down a little) The main thing at the walk is you need longer stirrups. And try raising your hands just a bit.
> 
> Trot- Very nice gait! I think you shoved you hips forward to much, try relaxing a bit more and working with your horse's beautiful gait more.
> 
> Canter- Give your horse a little more head room, he has an awesome canter! The main thing here is keep your hands still, lower your stirrups, and don't rock your upper body so much. You should only follow your horse's movement with your hips, you upper body should remain still. (Oh, that last part could go for trot to I think)


Thanks for the critique!

I think lowering my stirrups has definitely helps with the "hips" issue.
I noticed that about my upper body at the canter too, so thanks for pointing that out! Will definitely concentrate on that. I really like his canter when he is going "nicely" (not rushing). He just needs to canter for days and learn how to go properly, haha! I agree with the point you made about giving him more head room too... just need to find that balance of control and relaxation to keep him steady.

I haven't been able to get a new video yet, but maybe next week. I like having the videos so I can actually see how I am riding, since I don't have any eyes on the ground.

Thanks again!


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## MillieSantana (Feb 17, 2013)

Same with Millie. She loves to go, but once you get her in that just-right position, she collects nicley and will stay like that without me keeping her there. Good luck, and have fun!


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