# Eating grass, hay and alfalfa blocks but not grain?



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Maybe it's gone off. Maybe it's high in certain nutrients he doesn't need more of. Could be his teeth or gut problems putting him off, but he would be likely off everything, not just grain.

Why do you feed him grain anyway? I'd personally change it, regardless of what the problem is, because feeding regular sweets is about as healthy as giving kids regular meals of lollies or junk. Perhaps more so because it has the ability to cause laminitis too. Same goes with grain, to a degree, as starchy feeds are also not the best. So if you need to hardfeed anything, I'd choose a healthy, low starch, no added sugar something.


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## nyx (Jun 12, 2012)

I agree with everything loosie is saying but maybe his wolf teeth are comming through and causing him.some grief, or have they already been removed? Just a thought. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

How old or fresh is the feed? How is it stored? Could it have gotten wet or critters in it? Maybe it was a bad batch of feed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gothicangel69 (Aug 2, 2011)

I'd get his teeth checked. He's at that age where wolf teeth can start causing problems. I had my boy's teeth floated in february of this year, and had to get her back out to pull his last wolf tooth two months later (he's 4 yrs as well). 
I would also look into getting a better type of feed as others have suggested, if he needs it at all anymore. How much grass\hay is he getting now, and is he at a good weight? Maybe post a picture of him to give us a bit more info?
There are a few reasons why he may be off his feed. Could be teeth (good possibility), or maybe he no longer needs the extra calories (although most horses will eat themselves fat whether they need it or not), or it could be that he's not feeling good (but if he's eating his hay\grass and acting normal then I doubt that's it). 
I'd start with the teeth, and get a better quality of feed and slowely start switching him over (I personally love Blueseal pelleted feeds, but there are all kinds of good quality brands out there).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Going off of grain can be an indicator of gastric ulcers. It causes the stomach to become very upset, a lot of times grass hay and fresh grass (especially fresh grass) will make their stomachs feel better.

I would have a vet test him if this went on a few more days.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## eclipseranch (May 31, 2012)

mathensa said:


> My 4 year old quarter horse has not been finishing his grain lately. I've noticed this for 2 days now. Yesterday he didn't finish, and today he didn't even touch his grain.
> 
> I gave him some of his alfalfa blocks and he ate those. turned him out and he is eating grass. What's wrong with the grain? it's a 12% sweet grain. Is he just getting tired of it? Should I get something different for him?
> 
> ...


there is a lot of reasons a horse goes off of grain, some more serious than others! Personally, I would check his TPR 1st & make sure all is normal. If no.... an immediate call to he vet would be in order. While he is "off" grain I would make sure he has plenty of hay available..and make sure he is drinking water! 
Sweet feed is just fine but he may need 14/15% protein because he is still so young(but that has nothing to do with being off feed)


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## Janna (Apr 19, 2012)

I'd make sure he has plenty of good hay available 24/7, giving the alfalfa is good. My grandmas horse got ulcers and for a while that's all he'd eat, the bet said it calms the ulcers or something. But since he is on grass, you can offer him some sort of minerals and salt and he should be ok. My guy will do the same thing, he is one of the kind that won't stuff his face and only takes what he needs.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

eat drink pee poop, 
Basic rules to live by with horse ownership unless you can discover something obvious, like an ammonia smell in the feed, 
If one of those things stops or drastically changes it's time to take action. I'd call a vet.


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## mathensa (Nov 11, 2011)

loosie said:


> Maybe it's gone off. Maybe it's high in certain nutrients he doesn't need more of. Could be his teeth or gut problems putting him off, but he would be likely off everything, not just grain.
> 
> Why do you feed him grain anyway? I'd personally change it, regardless of what the problem is, because feeding regular sweets is about as healthy as giving kids regular meals of lollies or junk. Perhaps more so because it has the ability to cause laminitis too. Same goes with grain, to a degree, as starchy feeds are also not the best. So if you need to hardfeed anything, I'd choose a healthy, low starch, no added sugar something.


 
That's what I was thinking... he doesn't 'need' the nutrients from the grain anymore. 
I just got his teeth checked. No problems. Vet says he has very nice healthy looking teeth 
Why do I feed him grain? lol. I've never been asked this question. Hm.. maybe because that's what every horse I've ever known all my life has eaten? Not so much grain, but more hay and not so much hay during the summer because of how much grass they eat instead. Grain is to help him keep weight since I work him?

Okay give me some recommendation on the feeds you're talking about because I have no clue and I'm just now learning all this horse feed stuff since I never really had to deal with it before. He is my first horse after all.
The barn manager recommended this grain, it's what all the horses at the barn eat.. and the feed supplier is very educated when it comes to this stuff and he has given me the okay on it. So I don't understand what's wrong.


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## mathensa (Nov 11, 2011)

usandpets said:


> How old or fresh is the feed? How is it stored? Could it have gotten wet or critters in it? Maybe it was a bad batch of feed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
They just brought in a whole new batch, and I haven't heard anything. I don't manage the feed. I pay for full board so the people who work there and own it do all the work. They always let me know if anything is wrong. So I haven't heard anything. I've seen the grain he didn't eat though, and it looked normal. It's stored in a feed room. In the barn where the stalls are. It's locked away. They do keep it in a open barrel..... which I think is weird, but they've done this way before he stopped eating his grain. I didn't go out tonight to see if he finished his grain. Just got my wisdom teeth extracted so I'm in bed lol.. but I'm waiting on a text reply to see if he finished his food or not.


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## mathensa (Nov 11, 2011)

gothicangel69 said:


> I'd get his teeth checked. He's at that age where wolf teeth can start causing problems. I had my boy's teeth floated in february of this year, and had to get her back out to pull his last wolf tooth two months later (he's 4 yrs as well).
> I would also look into getting a better type of feed as others have suggested, if he needs it at all anymore. How much grass\hay is he getting now, and is he at a good weight? Maybe post a picture of him to give us a bit more info?
> There are a few reasons why he may be off his feed. Could be teeth (good possibility), or maybe he no longer needs the extra calories (although most horses will eat themselves fat whether they need it or not), or it could be that he's not feeling good (but if he's eating his hay\grass and acting normal then I doubt that's it).
> I'd start with the teeth, and get a better quality of feed and slowely start switching him over (I personally love Blueseal pelleted feeds, but there are all kinds of good quality brands out there).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just got his teeth checked. they're fine. wolf teeth are out but not causing him any pain. but he's eating alfa blocks that are way harder than his grain so it can't be his teeth. 
Do you have any grain recommendations?
He just gained weight, his ribs were showing when i first bought him. I have a whole photo album of him on this website. click my name and you'll see it  but here's a quick pic










I do give him cool cal. paid 70 bucks for a bag of it to help him gain weight when i first bought him. maybe i should cut off the cool cal?
I'll keep blueseal pellets in mind. thank you


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## mathensa (Nov 11, 2011)

Janna said:


> I'd make sure he has plenty of good hay available 24/7, giving the alfalfa is good. My grandmas horse got ulcers and for a while that's all he'd eat, the bet said it calms the ulcers or something. But since he is on grass, you can offer him some sort of minerals and salt and he should be ok. My guy will do the same thing, he is one of the kind that won't stuff his face and only takes what he needs.


 
they haven't been feeding him hay because he's been eating grass.
yeah he was really excited to get the alfalfa blocks. Hmm.. if this keeps up I will call the vet.

Thanks everyone for replying and trying to help  I'm sure my boy will be just fine.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Joe4d said:


> If one of those things stops or drastically changes it's time to take action. I'd call a vet.


Call a vet because the feed may be off??


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

mathensa said:


> That's what I was thinking... he doesn't 'need' the nutrients from the grain anymore.


With regard to the too high in nutrients comment, that was a generic type of possibility. As sweetfeeds are generally just junk food, they don't tend to have a lot in the way of nutrition in them anyway, so I don't think that's the prob here.



> Grain is to help him keep weight since I work him?


OK, so he is a bit of a 'hard keeper' &/or you work him quite hard? It is possible that the grain is part of his weight problem, as the same probs that lead to ulcers & laminitis, can cause weightloss.



> and the feed supplier is very educated when it comes to this stuff and he has given me the okay on it.


Well, you'd kinda expect that, if he's the one being paid to sell the stuff! Grain is not necessarily bad for horses, but there are problems associated with high starch feed that means I'd personally choose otherwise. If for eg. you can only feed once or twice daily, I'd really think about alternatives, because it's important to feed especially starchy feeds little & often to minimise the risks & maximise the benefits.

If he needs a high energy feed, ingredients such as beet pulp, soy hulls, rice bran are high energy but low starch/sugar. Katy Watts | Safergrass.org has some good info on feeds & feeding. But considering what he has been fed & the probs, I'd also give him a probiotic and consider getting him scoped/treated for ulcers. I'd also be inclined to include a good nutritional supp or 'ration balancer' with his feed, so he's also getting good nutrition.

...& after seeing that pic, looks like he doesn't need any extras for weigh gain anyway, but could maybe afford to lose some.


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## mathensa (Nov 11, 2011)

loosie said:


> ...& after seeing that pic, looks like he doesn't need any extras for weigh gain anyway, but could maybe afford to lose some.


 LOL I was going to start listening to you until I read that. You think he needs to LOSE? REALLY? He is a 15.2 QH. 
I do not work him hard. At all. He is a baby and I'm aware of that. I'm all about the well being of my horse and I'm not the type who owns a horse just for show. Okay? I work him as in I keep him active and in shape. Geez.









this is him the other day. he is starting to build muscle. 

I came on here to get ideas on what it could be. Not to be downgraded for the care I have given my horse. Loosie. what do you feed YOUR horse(s)? I'd really like to know. and I'd like to see pictures since you seem to know so much. :]


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

I beg your pardon. After you took such great offense I reread my post to you - I acknowlege I'm not always the best communicator in the world, especially with only written words to go on - & really don't get why tho:?. 

Perhaps he doesn't need to lose weight - as I said, "it looks like... maybe..." & based on you providing but one photo, of a horse that is by no means underweight. Perhaps if he's thinner than he appears there, that's not a very good picture to show us. It's the *apparent* 'padding' around his tail head, in front of his shoulders, behind his elbow & the filled in flank area that gave me the idea he's *possibly* a bit on the heavy side, but like I said, only got one angle & little info.

Oh & BTW, my horses are fatties, despite having very restricted grazing. They get a handful(literally one single handful) of pelleted nutritional supp with a few drops of seaweed emulsion, as this diet leaves them well balanced in everything aside from a bit deficient in iodine.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

My pally mare ate only what she needed. She often left unfinished grain. During the winter she didn't want any at all.


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## FaydesMom (Mar 25, 2012)

mathensa said:


> LOL I was going to start listening to you until I read that. You think he needs to LOSE? REALLY? He is a 15.2 QH.
> I do not work him hard. At all. He is a baby and I'm aware of that. I'm all about the well being of my horse and I'm not the type who owns a horse just for show. Okay? I work him as in I keep him active and in shape. Geez.
> 
> 
> ...


Ummm, nobody is "downgrading" you for your care. Your horse is NOT under weight, he no longer needs his supplements for weight gain. It doesn't matter how big he is or what breed, when the ribs are padded over and he's getting "fat rolls" on shoulders and tail head, it's time to cut back to a "maintenance" diet. 

You just basically slapped the face of one of the most knowledgeable people on this forum...as you said, "Geez".


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^^ Not sure I deserve that rep, but thank you for the vote of confidence Faye'sMum!:hug:


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

When I saw the first pic, I had similar thoughts as loosie that the horse had extra weight. Not necessarily overweight but some extra. If I had to give a BSI(body score index), I would say he was a 6. That's not bad, but it could get worse. If the pic is of his winter weight, I absolutely see nothing wrong. 

I don't think loosie was trying to downgrade you about the care you give. You did ask for help and advice. 

To me, the second pic shows a healthier weight. I will admit that our horses are more like the first pic but we don't work them much. So I don't think you are a poor caregiver. If you were, you wouldn't be on here asking for help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

usandpets said:


> horse had extra weight. Not necessarily overweight but some extra.


:? Scratching head at the meaning of extra v's over??:lol:


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

mathensa said:


> LOL I was going to start listening to you until I read that. You think he needs to LOSE? REALLY? He is a 15.2 QH.
> I do not work him hard. At all. He is a baby and I'm aware of that. I'm all about the well being of my horse and I'm not the type who owns a horse just for show. Okay? I work him as in I keep him active and in shape. Geez.
> 
> 
> ...


Did you seriously get that angry?


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Do you know how much feed your horse is getting? Sweet feed is often fed in really large quantities (upwards of 15 lbs/day in some cases!). If that's the case for your horse, he may just be getting full.

I'd agree with the other comments that it doesn't look like he needs to gain weight anymore, so save your money and don't get any more Cool Calories 

Sweet feed definitely isn't high on my list of favorite horse feeds, but if that's what your barn feeds you may not have much of a choice in the matter, depending on their policy on customized feeding plans and/or your personal finances. I prefer ration balancers to grain in most cases (I feed my horse Triple Crown 30% Supplement), but there are a number of good grains out there as well- I hear very positive things about both Safe Choice and Life Design from those who use them.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Be interested to hear your view after subsequent posts & time to settle down & think about it, OP?


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

loosie said:


> :? Scratching head at the meaning of extra v's over??:lol:


A horse that has a score of 7, 8 or 9 would be "overweight". A horse with a score of 6 would have extra or just be slightly overweight. A score of 5 is optimal. Personally, a score of 6 is alright for winter weight, especially for horses outdoors 24/7.

Just like for us. If we are 10 to 20 lbs over our ideal weight. We have extra weight but not necessarily would be called overweight. If we were 50+ lbs over, then that would be overweight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Splitting hairs IOW usand?? I wouldn't call a bodyscore of 8-9 overweight either... I'd call that obese.


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## Arizahn (Sep 25, 2011)

The first picture looks like a fat horse to me. The second is better, but agree he doesn't need sweet feed. It is not good for any horse, especially a young horse, to be overweight.

I'm blunt about my own mare too, btw. People tend to be blunt regarding horses and their weight where I live. Nobody wants to risk laminitis...

My mare has no cereals/grain in her diet any more. She doesn't need it. Even when I was feeding it I only gave a small amount per day mixed with a non molassed chaff to bulk it out. Now she is on 24/7 grazing, with a very small feed of soaked alfalfa beet and chaff with balancer through it in the evenings. Haylage or hay in winter in addition to the grass.


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## mathensa (Nov 11, 2011)

Ah, I totally forgot about this post... lol. 
I knew people were going to snap back at me. Gotta love forums! No idea why I get on here and ask.... there's always negative feedback towards a new horse owner who is only trying to figure out everything! (me D Anyway!

Now I see too what you meant by being a 'little' over weight. The skin lines. Hm. 
I did get kinda grumpy and defensive, lol. I'm the kind of person who freaks out if I'm doing anything wrong. I couldn't believe someone would say he needed to lose weight when I had a hard time keeping weight on him during the winter! When I got him in november he was already ribby and out of shape.
But thanks anyway for the advice and knowledge.


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## mathensa (Nov 11, 2011)

loosie said:


> Be interested to hear your view after subsequent posts & time to settle down & think about it, OP?


Is this towards me? -.- feels good to have so many 'buddies' behind you huh?


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## mathensa (Nov 11, 2011)

FaydesMom said:


> Ummm, nobody is "downgrading" you for your care. Your horse is NOT under weight, he no longer needs his supplements for weight gain. It doesn't matter how big he is or what breed, when the ribs are padded over and he's getting "fat rolls" on shoulders and tail head, it's time to cut back to a "maintenance" diet.
> 
> You just basically slapped the face of one of the most knowledgeable people on this forum...as you said, "Geez".


 
Good for her for being the awesomest person on this forum. That's a great feat.... 
I had a freak out. Who cares.
I came on here for some suggestions and advice. Not to read books of what I should be doing and what I'm doing wrong. That is all. Can everyone please stop jumping on me???? If me and loosie have differences, let her talk for herself. Making me look like the bad guy. When I'm the sweetest person in the world


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## mathensa (Nov 11, 2011)

Also.. since it's been awhile since I started this thread. Most of you were right about not needing the grain. To be honest I haven't changed his feed. But I stoped with the coolcal. He finishes his grain now. Maybe not all at once, but over time he'll clean out his bowl. 

This is us at our first horse show. I am very proud of him, we got 3rd our first time.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

mathensa said:


> Is this towards me? -.- feels good to have so many 'buddies' behind you huh?


Yes, it was to you. I was quite perplexed at your aggressiveness. Thought you may have stopped feeling so emotional & looked at things a bit more rationally. I don't get the 'buddies' comment, unless you're still having digs?



> I came on here for some suggestions and advice. Not to read books of what I should be doing and what I'm doing wrong. That is all. Can everyone please stop jumping on me????


It feels to me, considering the aggression, that you only came on here to hear what you wanted to hear & when suggestions & advice were given that you didn't like to hear, you took it as a personal attack. You're the only one jumping. 

May I suggest in future, if you truly want advice & suggestions, that you read & consider the replies, take or leave them as you see fit, but if you're going to respond to them, don't do it when you're feeling emotional & try to be rational & respectful, as you will find the vast majority here are to eachother, whether or not we have similar opinions or not.


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## mathensa (Nov 11, 2011)

loosie said:


> Yes, it was to you. I was quite perplexed at your aggressiveness. Thought you may have stopped feeling so emotional & looked at things a bit more rationally. I don't get the 'buddies' comment, unless you're still having digs?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's not true. I take advice all the time. As a first horse owner, you made me feel like I was doing everything wrong. And I freak out of I am doing anything wrong when it involves a life, my horses life!
But once again, you have the upper hand and you are right. I'll take this advice and I won't reply again with an attitude. Sorry. I guess I took you the wrong way. 

Is this any better?


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## nyx (Jun 12, 2012)

I honestly think you just took the way loosie was giving advice the totally wrong way. Which can happen.  

Happens to me sometimes and I get fired up for no apparent reason but I think the biggest thing is to just take some time to cool off and rethink the situation lol. 
But one thing to remember with this forum and with horses is that no matter how much experience one has with horses you can always learn from them. So all advice should be taken on board and well nasty comments just simply ignore them.  

Sorry but I hate conflict! Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OwnedByAlli (Nov 8, 2011)

mathensa said:


> I couldn't believe someone would say he needed to lose weight when I had a hard time keeping weight on him during the winter! When I got him in november he was already ribby and out of shape.


Its normal for a horses weight to fluxuate during winter and summer. It is dramaticised by new life sytles to the horse too- training, moving home, new feeding regimes etc.

My horse was very skinny by the end of last winter as it was her first winter being worked and I couldn't find feed which didnt cause her ulcers to flare up. The photos attatched are jaunary ish time and now, your lee the difference! 

Btw, my gut instinct is that your horse may have ulcers. It is not always the owners fault as some horses are more prone to them. I think its ulcers because the horse is sorting through his food- ie eating the alfalfa which absorbs extra stomach acid (too much acid causes the ulcers), but leaving the sweet feed which will be sugary and starchy which causes the acid to build up.

Is your horse insured? Investigations into ulcers can reach thousands of dollars. I couldn't get a gastroscope due to nasty insurance people so when straight to the management stage: No grain, only alfalfa and grass (/hay in winter), no stabling, and adding a suplement with prebiotics (promote a healthy gut environment). Direct treatment of ulcers is done using a proton pump inhibititor (stops acid secretion) called omeprozole. Very expensive, but one of the few drugs known to help.

Now for my winter/summer pics
Winter pic: you can see her ribs and there is little fat covering across the back. Very little crest too. Doesnt look as ribby as she actually was due to winter fluff and her head being down
Summer: She was slightly over weight in this pic: no ribs, slight belly, small crest and there is a good sized covering of fat over her shoulders and rump. (Shes on a weightloss scheme atm :lol


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