# Buckskin? Roan? What?



## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Im actually thinking shes more along the lines of a sooty bay/brown dun. But, these photos are not good enough to give an accurate color. Photos are good enough to determine any roaning either IMO.
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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

They say she throws roan. Seems she had two colts at least, but I can't tell their colour from Allbreed.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Those pictures aren't great. From those, she looks like a brown roan. The first picture looks like she's a roan.

Allbreed isn't a good source to determine color with, just maybe give an idea because the information can be put in by random people and isn't verified.


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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

Okay. I'll post more pics when I get them. I wouldn't be breeding her; just interested in her colour.


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

Whats her tail look like? Almost looks rabicino to me.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

With the darkening on her face, I'd say she's either bay dun, brown dun, or has sooty. She has a dorsal, but the light is reflecting off it in both pictures that show it, so it could be countershading.

I'm leaning towards brown for her base color, largely because she appears so much darker in the first photo, and browns tend to vary in color like that throughout the year. It could just be an effect of the lighting, though.

I'd believe the roan, but it can be hard to photograph well unless they're VERY roan.


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## RubieLee (Mar 2, 2012)

My two cents is sooty bay. Possibly roan.


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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

Interesting! I should have more pics soon, and if not I think I am going to see her Saturday so I will snap some then.
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## riddlemethis (Jun 3, 2008)

IMO she's definitely Bay/Brown dun. In the first picture she looks roaned, but none of them are good enough for me to say whether I think shes truly roan or not.


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## RubieLee (Mar 2, 2012)

I don't believe she's dun. She shows exactly the way my countershade mare does. I see no zebra marks. Her ear tips are the right size..it may just be the crappy photos but I don't see dun.


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## caljane (Feb 7, 2009)

RunSlideStop said:


> ETA: I am not an AQHA member, but if someone is, they could look her up. I believe she is FQHA reg too.


Please do not jump on me for official AQHA colors as I do know that horses are not always correctly registered, but this is what AQHA has:

This mare here is registered as a dun.
Her two foals that I could find on allbreed are registered with AQHA as dun (by a dun sire) and a bay roan (by a bay roan sire) - that is not very helpful :lol:

If a horse has more than one color modifier (like roan, dun, cream, ...) AQHA will register only with one and maybe mention a second or third modifier in the description. This mare could be a dun roan, yet registered as a dun. Her sire is a grullo, her dam a bay roan. Why/where somebody came up with "buckskin" in allbreed - who knows.

Again - all this information is from AQHA and should be taken with a pinch of salt :?

I, personally, tend to call her a dun roan from the pictures.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

RubieLee said:


> I don't believe she's dun. She shows exactly the way my countershade mare does. I see no zebra marks. Her ear tips are the right size..it may just be the crappy photos but I don't see dun.


The way you can tell this mare is dun even from the crappy photos is three things. One the dorsal is sharp and crisp, two the very prominent masking a dun characteristic and three the hue of her coat. Defintily a bay or brown dun as for the roan not sure since she only looks roany in the first pic. Definitely need better pics.

EDIT: actually I'm gonna go ahead and call her roan because of the pointed black on her legs.
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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

So dun, roan, or dun roan? Is that possible?

Also, if I was to buy her, is there a place I can send hair for dna mapping to tell me what she is?
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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Yes a horse can be dun and roan which I'm pretty sure this mare is.
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## caljane (Feb 7, 2009)

Bad pictures, but this gelding is definitely a dun roan:


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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

So does Dun have a base colour too? Could she be a brown dun roan? Or Dun Brown Roan, or... I thought I paid attention in High School Genetics class but I guess not enough 
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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Dun is a modifier. Every color is a modification of one of two base colors (red and black).

A bay dun roan would be Black base + bay agouti + dun + roan. 

A brown dun roan would be Black base + brown agouti + dun + roan.


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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

Crazy. Next someone will tell me she can produce brindle babies! Wouldn't that be nice...

Hypothetically breeding her, what do you think could be the craziest colour she could produce?
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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

RunSlideStop said:


> So dun, roan, or dun roan? Is that possible?
> 
> Also, if I was to buy her, is there a place I can send hair for dna mapping to tell me what she is?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


UC Davis can do all those tests, except brown. (They offer an agouti test, but it does not differentiate between bay and brown) Currently PetDNA is the only lab that tests for brown agouti.

You'd probably want to test for Comprehensive Agouti through PetDNA, and Dun and Roan through UC Davis if those aren't obvious when you see her in person (you might still want to test to find out zygosity, depending on how curious you are)

If there's a possibility you might breed her, you would definitely want to test for Lethal White Overo (because Frame can hide even on horses that have no white markings!), and possibly for Red Factor (she clearly has at least one black allele, but could be homozygous or heterozygous)


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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

What would the red factor affect if she was bred? I would have her checked for LWO, as well. Wasn't aware that the genes ran in Foundation lines. She is 94% foundation I believe. All good things to know!


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

RunSlideStop said:


> Crazy. Next someone will tell me she can produce brindle babies! Wouldn't that be nice...
> 
> Hypothetically breeding her, what do you think could be the craziest colour she could produce?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Most bridles are caused by chimerism which is when to fraternal twins are fused into one embryo giving them two sets of DNA. I think there is another form of chimerism I believe but I don't know much about that. 
She has the possibility of passing red, dun, agouti, or black and roan to her offspring depending on her genetics. So what other colored offspring she could have depends on the stud bred to her.
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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

The red factor... That just means that if she has one red gene she has the possibility of producing a red based foal.


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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

Would having her dna mapped increase her value?


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

RunSlideStop said:


> Would having her dna mapped increase her value?


Possibly a little if you wanted to market her there as a broodmare.
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## Barrelhorsetrainer (Jan 7, 2013)

Its hard to tell do you have any other pictures in the first i would have said roan but the second buckskin?
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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

No other pictures yet. Waiting for some more, otherwise I will get some Saturday.


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## BarrelRacingLvr (Feb 26, 2012)

Roan you can see the glare off the white hairs in the last set of photos. Also you can see it in the last photo of her being rode...the roaning is clearly visible.


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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

That is not the horse in question...
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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

update: She is definitely dun roan. Will post pics when I can from desktop, but she has some primal markings (zebra stripes faintly, definite dorsal), and has for sure roaning. The Bay v Brown is still up for grabs - she is a light bay looking colour to me, and I am not sure if she has black points or if its the dun. Her mane and tail are like a Kiger's as far as colour and length/thickness. 

She's a pretty girl!


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## Wanstrom Horses (Dec 23, 2012)

Of what I can see, dun roan. I own one dun roan mare that looks just like a dun in the winter, but roans out in the summer. Its common in those bloodlines. I have a Blue Valentine stud that throws dun roans a lot.


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## Wanstrom Horses (Dec 23, 2012)

Oops! That was just posted, sorry lol!


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## caljane (Feb 7, 2009)

RunSlideStop said:


> update: She is definitely dun roan. Will post pics when I can from desktop, but she has some primal markings (zebra stripes faintly, definite dorsal), and has for sure roaning. The Bay v Brown is still up for grabs - she is a light bay looking colour to me, and I am not sure if she has black points or if its the dun. Her mane and tail are like a Kiger's as far as colour and length/thickness.
> 
> She's a pretty girl!


And? Did you buy her?


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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

Haven't decided yet. She needs a lot more work than I thought, and her shoulder made for a jackhammer/pogo stick of a trot. Going to talk to my BO and see what they think. I like her a lot - I just thought she was a rusty finished horse, and now I would call her a rusty started/green horse.
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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

Pics, alas!

Mobile Photobucket
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## AnnaLover (Sep 27, 2009)

Yep. Definitely dun roan. She's a nice little mare


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

What color are her sire and dam? In order for her to be roan she would need to have one roan parent. Pretty horse!


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