# Spurs?



## TheSnowyStorm (May 2, 2013)

(sorry about this post. My computer is acting up)


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## TheSnowyStorm (May 2, 2013)

Spurs are cruel in my opinion. Imagine someone jabbing your side with metal. Painful. Please don't go off at me (this is to everyone) because it's just my opinion. 
Most saddle problems are fixed by groundwork. That's how my pony became more forward.
My dad brought me spurs as my pony was so slow and fat. I *REFUSED* to use them.
Now? He is doing everything on cue. 
Don't use spurs just do more ground work!!


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Spurs aren't cruel, they are inanimate objects, once you strap them on to a person there is a definite risk that they will be used in a cruel fashion.

I personally don't use spurs to get more 'go' the few times I have used them is to improve lateral work, a poke in the side to move away.

To wake a horse up I prefer a whip or the ends of my reins, ask once nicely, squeeze, one little nudge with my calf, then follow up with one good solid wack behind the girth, leaving the reins quite loose, so if you get a jump forward you don't jab in the mouth.

I much prefer that method than keep kicking and nagging for ever, the last horse I used it on was a changed boy after one 30 minute lesson.


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## Lucky1inKy (Sep 22, 2013)

I love my spurs.  I had never used them until I started riding again a while back. I think they are fantastic. Just make sure you seek out the advice of someone who knows what they are doing if u decide to purchase some. They range from very mild to very severe. I didn't realize that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

I don't like using spurs for more "go." My horse is definitely on the lazy side, but I have found that being consistent about requiring him to be more responsive to my leg (with a dressage whip for backup) has made a world of difference. I do occasionally ride in spurs, but only for lateral movements. 

Like any device, spurs can be cruel in the wrong hands (on the wrong feet?) I don't jab my horse in the side with them, and I don't kick, whether I have spurs on or not. The spurs I use have a smooth spinning roller (like these) If my horse isn't moving off my leg in a lateral movement (and I do always give him the chance to move off the leg alone), then I roll the end of the spur lightly on his side- it's light enough that it wouldn't hurt if it were done to me- and this is all it takes to remind him that he needs to move off the leg.


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## gssw5 (Jul 30, 2013)

As stated above spurs are not for impulsion, if your horse is lazy and you need more forward impulsion use a crop. Squeeze, cluck, spank/ask, tell, make use the crop to make him go forward. Spurs are an aid for lifting your horses ribcage for lateral movement and when asking for vertical collection.


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## wtwg (Oct 20, 2013)

Golden Horse said:


> I personally don't use spurs to get more 'go' the few times I have used them is to improve lateral work, a poke in the side to move away.
> 
> To wake a horse up I prefer a whip or the ends of my reins, ask once nicely, squeeze, one little nudge with my calf, then follow up with one good solid wack behind the girth, leaving the reins quite loose, so if you get a jump forward you don't jab in the mouth.


He doesn't do lateral anything as well. He will just ignore leg. 

As I said, I use my whip A LOT. I definitely doesn't work as well as I'd like, or as well as it logically should. He's just a strange, lazy horsey. 

At the moment, I do a lot of lengthen/shorten type things. This works very well to get him forward, but I have to remind myself not to use my legs too much.


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## wtwg (Oct 20, 2013)

What I really want is for him to pay attention to my leg. I'm just kind of tired of beating him up with my crop (which is what it seems to take most of the time). I feel like at this point, some gentle spurs would be better for him. 

As for the cruel/not cruel thing, I'm an experienced rider, and I have control of my feet. I won't be jabbing him in the side, that's for sure. It's more like I need something to remind him of what he's supposed to be doing.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

How are you using your whip? If you are struggling make sure you are not tap tap tapping, you should be able to hit him HARD once, horses, like husbands, tune out nagging, so to correct this you have to be prepared to really give him one. What sort of whip? A shorter stockier whip with a broad leather flap on the end is better than a schooling or dressage whip for a real dead head.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

spurs are not cruel if used "correctly" they are more extensions of you leg to reinforce & refine cues. If you don't know how to ride your horse using proper leg cues or your horse hasn't been trained proper aspects of body control then no I don't recommend them:wink:. This is the case where you take yourself & horse back to the drawing board & do more ground work and/or riding lessons ,as you have holes in your training:-(. I have horses that I ride with spurs & others no,the ones I ride in spurs are ones I am asking for more advanced riding & asking for/ gaining body control & collection on.


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

I like these M. Toulouse Soft Touch Spur from SmartPak Equine I think it gives enough signal to "move from my leg" without really being painful. My trainer also suggests them for people who have never used spurs before because there is more margin for learning with them without getting into too much trouble. 

I agree on the most part that they should not be used for asking a horse to move forward with more impulsion in MOST cases. However I too have ridden a few dead sided horses where NOBODY could get them to move without a little extra help because their sides were pretty much numb. You might as well just be a little ant in the saddle for all they care.


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## hemms (Apr 18, 2012)

For two years I've been riding my boy in spurs. First horse in 25+ years of riding who has caused me to seek hardware. Perhaps coincidentally, he laughs his *** off at anything without port and leverage in his mouth. Have both those, just enough to know they're there, and he's finger-tip light. Same with the spurs. Anything without a spicy rowel and he barges right through your whomping legs. Besides looking & feeling like an angry chicken atop the beast, riding was very unpleasant. 

Now, in our third year, we have just developed enough of a rapport that he's starting to respond to lighter and lighter cues. He's a more willing partner and no-doubt I'm in much improved head-space, overall in my life. That said, I'm still tacked to the nines when I hop on. ;p
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wtwg (Oct 20, 2013)

Oh, I can hit him pretty hard. The first time I got on him, he wouldn't even trot for a while, but he's pretty much straightened out now. But I fear he's responding more to my whip than my legs, though I do a ask/correct/ask type thing. 

He will not walk any faster than he wants though, and he will usually not respond when asked for a leg yield. I think he might have been trained with spurs, which would explain why he is so dull.

I use two dressage whips with him, one on each side. I'll try a shorter one, as you suggested. Would you still use it behind your leg or on the shoulder?


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## wtwg (Oct 20, 2013)

Cinnys Whinny said:


> I agree on the most part that they should not be used for asking a horse to move forward with more impulsion in MOST cases. However I too have ridden a few dead sided horses where NOBODY could get them to move without a little extra help because their sides were pretty much numb. You might as well just be a little ant in the saddle for all they care.


That's pretty much my situation at the moment. Trust me, I know how to create forward movement, this silly guy just doesn't seem to have it sometimes. He will just blatantly ignore my legs, and my whip! Sweetest thing in the world, but he has been a pet for longer than he has been a riding animal.


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## 40232 (Jan 10, 2013)

I use spurs on my almost 5 yr old. He is the type of horse that you either have to slam your legs onto to get to a trot, or gently poke with a spur. I don't know about the rest of you, but I would rather use a gentle poke than a repetitive slamming


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

hemms said:


> For two years I've been riding my boy in spurs. First horse in 25+ years of riding who has caused me to seek hardware.


Not the Maximillian? :rofl: Yeah that actually sounds like Max


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

I rode one last summer for somebody and I was squeezing and thumping with a crop , resorted to kicking, even tried to spook him into moving and you know what he did? He slowly turned and gave me a look as if to say "are you done yet? I'm trying to take a nap and you are ruining it for me."


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I use spurs, and they are absolutely not cruel. If they are used incorrectly, or by someone less experienced, then they certainly can be. But, inherently and if used correctly, spurs are certainly not cruel.

I use spurs to get my horse to engage his hind end a bit more effectively. 

It may help in 'waking your horse' up a bit, and encouraging him to listen to your leg. This is all under the assumption that you already know how to use your leg effectively (you don't sound like a particularly novice rider).

On my horse I use a "Prince of Wales". It's not a particularly harsh spur.


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## NaeNae87 (Feb 26, 2013)

Cinnys Whinny said:


> However I too have ridden a few dead sided horses where NOBODY could get them to move without a little extra help because their sides were pretty much numb. You might as well just be a little ant in the saddle for all they care.


Horses can feel a fly land on their skin. So unless a horse has nerve damage, they are not numb or dead sided... They have been allowed to get away with not answering leg aids or have not been taught to correctly answer leg aids. 

I have a chestnut TB who is quite lazy, however with correct training and appropriate reinforcement of my leg aids, he is becoming a lot more responsive. Spurs are there to reinforce and refine leg aids, they are not for getting more forward or impulsion. If you have a horse that does not respond to leg, do more ground would and ridden work to make hime understand what you are asking.

The method that has worked well for me has been to give the aid (walk, trot, canter, leg yield, whatever), If no response then ask again firmly, if still no response, ask firmly and tap with a whip. I have never had to ask more than 3 times and now I find that it takes him less time to answer as he knows what happens when he ignores me. While learning he got a pat on the neck and a "yaaah, good" from me when he answered correctly. He is now at the stage where just a "yaaah" is a sufficient reward and I rarely need a whip.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

A shorter whip takes away all your speed at the end of the whip!! Nooo, go longer, go thinner, go more bite so it hurts more when you DO use it. IF your horse is not lightening up like it should then your maximum disciplinary action is NOT strong enough!

I have had several lazy horses including one pony that was absolutely DEAD to leg aids, no matter what you did he would not go. The kids who rode him before I got him weren't allowed to ride with a whip so the first thing I did was get a crop. Ask lightly with the leg, then firmer, then a tap with the crop, and then I would bring that crop down on that pony's *** so hard I nearly fell off from the force of hitting him. It got better but with the crop I never got past the point of having to use it for a light tap. So I got a dressage whip, the longest and thinnest one I could find, and all of a sudden I didn't even have to put much force into hitting him when he was at his laziest/naughtiest. Didn't take long to soften him up. By the time I sold him, when I had that dressage whip on me all I had to do was touch him with my legs and he would go. But he knew when I didn't have it and wouldn't move unless it was there!

I _have_ used spurs to reinforce my forward leg aids and found it does work, but that was on a horse that I couldn't use a whip on because he would bolt. I would much rather use a whip if possible, it's much more effective.


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

NaeNae87 said:


> Horses can feel a fly land on their skin. So unless a horse has nerve damage, they are not numb or dead sided... They have been allowed to get away with not answering leg aids or have not been taught to correctly answer leg aids.
> 
> I have a chestnut TB who is quite lazy, however with correct training and appropriate reinforcement of my leg aids, he is becoming a lot more responsive. Spurs are there to reinforce and refine leg aids, they are not for getting more forward or impulsion. If you have a horse that does not respond to leg, do more ground would and ridden work to make hime understand what you are asking.
> 
> The method that has worked well for me has been to give the aid (walk, trot, canter, leg yield, whatever), If no response then ask again firmly, if still no response, ask firmly and tap with a whip. I have never had to ask more than 3 times and now I find that it takes him less time to answer as he knows what happens when he ignores me. While learning he got a pat on the neck and a "yaaah, good" from me when he answered correctly. He is now at the stage where just a "yaaah" is a sufficient reward and I rarely need a whip.


Yes but if you are on a lesson horse, or somebody else's horse that isn't your, this may not be within your means to do. And if the owner says "use spurs" then you do what the owner says. I agree that more ground work needs done, but it really depends on the situation.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

blue eyed pony said:


> A shorter whip takes away all your speed at the end of the whip!! Nooo, go longer, go thinner, go more bite so it hurts more when you DO use it. IF your horse is not lightening up like it should then your maximum disciplinary action is NOT strong enough!


Interesting debate, to my mind I don't want to actually hurt my horse, just get his attention, and I can do that with a shorter whip with a popper, believe me a hard bat wakes them up.

Personally I would never use force behind the hit with a long schooling whip, it is designed to be a refining tool, used to touch and direct, not as a punishment.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Here is a GREAT article on use of spurs 
When and why to use…or not to use…spurs. | Stacy Westfall Horseblog


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Golden Horse said:


> Interesting debate, to my mind I don't want to actually hurt my horse, just get his attention, and I can do that with a shorter whip with a popper, believe me a hard bat wakes them up.
> 
> Personally I would never use force behind the hit with a long schooling whip, it is designed to be a refining tool, used to touch and direct, not as a punishment.


To each their own, I have just found that a crop is ineffective on a lazy horse. I never put all my strength behind my dressage whip unless my horse is ignoring all else. I have had a horse completely ignore a crop no matter what I did with it or how hard I hit her with it, but with a dressage whip, even a tap stings and THAT worked.

Do bear in mind though that the filly I had that ignored a crop altogether is a stubborn extremely dominant witch and even my mother [who owns her now], who has 25 years on me in the experience department and is extremely experienced with lazy horses and gentle ways of perking them up, cannot get this filly to do something she doesn't want to do without a significant amount of demanding.

My system, and Mum's, goes a little like ask, tell, demand, promise, enforce. Depending on how educated the horse is I might skip a step or two but never the ask. My old boy was very lazy, but also very educated, and knew better than to ignore me, so sometimes with him I went straight from ask to enforce [leg aid to hard crack with the dressage whip, on the odd occasion I actually used one, or a hard jab with the spurs]. Never failed to lighten him up for two to three weeks at a time.

I do think it depends a lot on someone's personal experience in the matter. For me, crops are for jumping, and only for use on a horse that's likely to try to stop. I don't even own one anymore, haven't bothered in nearly three years. Short with a popper to make a loud noise, to me, is a warning. There isn't enough bite behind it if you come across a horse that will ignore that warning.


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## hemms (Apr 18, 2012)

Golden Horse said:


> Not the Maximillian? :rofl: Yeah that actually sounds like Max


You got it, GH! Wouldn't change him for the world. All these 'annoying' traits are what contribute to his phenomenal suitability in a plethora of hairy activities! ;p

Opted for warmer boots rather than spurs today and while he still listened to me if coming up on trees on the trail, moving off my leg so as to not rub me, when I needed his *** in the ditch for a passing vehicle, four strides in, he was still ignoring me. I had to pull him in, tripping and stumbling like a tool, rather than a nice lateral coordinated drift in (shallow ditch). Pffft.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wtwg (Oct 20, 2013)

Wouldn't you rather use a touch of a spur instead of smacking a horse with a dressage whip?


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

wtwg said:


> Wouldn't you rather use a touch of a spur instead of smacking a horse with a dressage whip?


That would entirely depend on what I am asking for, and the horse I was asking it of.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Wtwg--I think the other issue here is that spurs are much easier to abuse if your leg is not strong enough/if you are too novice of a rider. Whips are a bit more foolproof.


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## Lucky1inKy (Sep 22, 2013)

My opinion on the "abuse" of spurs is that most horses simply wouldn't tolerate it. Certainly there are exceptions im sure. But a lot of riders would end up being a lawn dart if they used their spurs inappropriately....especially a beginner. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## equitate (Dec 14, 2012)

Horses that don't 'go' either had muddy training or too low/onto the forehand/out of balance. So the rider's job is to EDUCATE THE HORSE to the use of the leg. That starts ON THE GROUND. Work the horse in hand, touch the horse where the leg would be (with the hand/with the whip); that touch is PROGRESSIVE. Touching (with the whip) is touch/vibrate/TWACK. Very rarely does the rider have to do that more than a few times and the horse WILL learn.

With a green(er) horse, the noise of a bat on the shoulder WILL send the horse forward, and which point the rider combines that with a touch of the leg. The horse MUST be allowed to come up/open/active (NO 'shaping the horse'/making it rounder yet. For an older horse the whip is used behind the CALF (NOT not on the butt) and the rider must NOT get left behind/grab the mouth/stop the horses reaction. Again, touch/vibrate/thwack. No horse should take more than two or three times to learn that IF the rider's actions are CLEAR. 

The spur is NOT for forward, it is for specific action/nuance.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

This Topic on spurs seems to have turned more into a discussion of crops/whips:shock:
I seldom use a crop when riding,only really use on a horse that is early in their training & not ready for spurs. To enforce my cue to move forward if they are not moving out or off enough from your leg alone. I find the applying the crop to contact were you want can inhibit the rider from keeping there hands & seat correct as well as with keeping your horse correct/straight in their movement. I had to resort to one with my youngster I'm just breaking now. After asking her with my legs if she didn't pick it up a notch got a pop from the crop to wake her & have her move out forward with more effort. Only took a couple reminders not to ignore my leg cues. Next ride she moved out appropriately when ask from just the cues from my leg & seat. I much prefer not fumbling around with some crop:wink:,spurs are much easier to refine cues & apply to the appropriate area. I also show several of my horses & crops are not allowed when riding. Use of whips in schooling on ground fine,but using when riding not my thing:-(
Maybe the use of crops vs spurs tend to follow with the riding styles/discipline:?. Use of spurs are seen more with western riding, crops are basically just seen in your Gymkhana events.Unlike English riding were crops are seen used more.


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## Lucky1inKy (Sep 22, 2013)

I agree that spurs seem to be used more with western riding and crops with English. Grew up riding English....only used a crop....as did my riding buddies. Transitioned to Western later in life and now I own me some sparkley spurs.....just like all the other cowgirls....lol.  

They think its hysterical that I wear a helmet!! Cant imagine the flack I'd catch if I broke out the crop.....lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wtwg (Oct 20, 2013)

Zexious said:


> Wtwg--I think the other issue here is that spurs are much easier to abuse if your leg is not strong enough/if you are too novice of a rider. Whips are a bit more foolproof.


As I've already said, I am not a "novice" rider. I simply have not used spurs before, for ideological reasons, if you will.


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