# Khemosabi bred Arabians



## TheRoundPen (Mar 15, 2012)

I know some people have to have them, and I'd love to hear information on them. I'd also like to see if there is any information on Khemosabi that I'm missing. What is the breeding of him? What did his foals excel in?

I've found a few things, but I would love to know more as I just found out that my little Arab mare is a granddaughter of him. Thanks


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

I remember having a big Khemosabi poster on my wall as a teen. Thought he was the perfect horse.

5 years ago, and a total act of God, I was blessed with my Khemo ggdaughter. She's a ggdaughter, but she's my "Khemo baby" just the same.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

There's all kinds of information on Khemosabi if you look. 

He was an extremely influential sire, and crossing his line with the Polish bloodlines made for some very nice horses. Bask/Khemo crosses were popular for a very long time, and some people are still breeding them.

What do you mean, 'what is the breeding on him'? Look up his pedigree, and go from there. He's considered an American bred Arabian, out of the mare Jurneeka and sired by Amerigo.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

And no Khemosabi thread is allowed without pictures.. it's just the LAW!


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Ok, I own paints, not Arabs, but when I hear the name "Khemosabi" or see his picture, I get goosebumps. Years ago I read an article about him in Horse & Rider magazine. He was conceived in a parking lot at night after a big Arab show in Canada. The stud & mare owners had just that one opportunity to get the 2 horses together. They turned the headlights on the horses in the parking lot and the magic happened! How cool is that??? Oh yes, mark my words, I will own a Khemosabi bred Arab and show him in Scottsdale, my goal after I retire. Good enough reason for a Canadian to pick Arizona for a place to retire, huh?


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Khemo horses are known for their western and working cow abilities. They're easy to train as long as you're fair and as long as you give them a chance to absorb what they've learned, they won't tolerate being cowboyed or pushed beyond their capabilities but will give you the WORLD if you just ask. Beautiful, big eyed, sweet, in your tent personality, and realllllllly good work ethics. What more can you ask for?

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/khemosabi

Here's a link to his pedigree on All Breed.


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## TheRoundPen (Mar 15, 2012)

I wasn't sure what his breeding would be considered as I've never really been into Arabs until last year when I got this mare. I'm tryng to learn all the different breeding lines and all that. I have been doing some research now that I know what to look up. Thank you all 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AbsitVita (Aug 28, 2012)

I have a Khemosabi daughter out of a sasaki line mare waiting in Florida. Just need my bank to clear before I can send my hold deposit for her.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Khemo/Bask cross here, far back and only Khemo once, but a lot of "V's" too

Absitvita, she is beautiful and very typical.

In fact, just recently there was a Khemo- daughter up for grabs, free, underweight and lame, but still a beautiful horse. Unfortunately somebody beat me....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AbsitVita (Aug 28, 2012)

Curiousity and wanting other breeders' opinion and advice, surely some of you [if not most] have checked back in your horses ancestry to find a horse named Raffles in the line. As more experienced breeders probably know, he was sired by Skowronek out of Rifala by Skowronek. What are your experiences with breeding your horses from that line? Have you had any problems with birth or genetic issues? Please spill your guts, I'm all ears!:?:


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Raffles was Polish bred. I've not heard of any problems with his lineage, especially now that it's been many, many horse generations since he died.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

You won't hear me say anything bad about Raffles or Skowronek. I love polish bred Arabs!


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

My heart horse was Polish/Crabbet, and I currently own a pure Polish gelding. If I thought there was a problem with Polish breds, I sure wouldn't have owned them all these years!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Can't tell you specifically about Raffles lines, since my breeding"career" was in Germany and his influence was very rare there, but im pretty sure that anything heavily inbred to one ancestor well produce problems. We had Hadban Enzahi standing at Marbach state stud. He was so heavily used, due to lack of alternatives at that time, that they started having severe pigmentation problems. But Marbach was clever enough to see that and they went to Egypt and bought an outcross, the black Gharib. 
Or Nazeer, for some time you could hardly find any SE without Nazeer lines. Or the Minstril, for that matter

Inbreeding and linebreeding is an art, and if you do it wrong problems pop up.
Too much of a good thing will turn into a bad thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AbsitVita (Aug 28, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Can't tell you specifically about Raffles lines, since my breeding"career" was in Germany and his influence was very rare there, but im pretty sure that anything heavily inbred to one ancestor well produce problems. We had Hadban Enzahi standing at Marbach state stud. He was so heavily used, due to lack of alternatives at that time, that they started having severe pigmentation problems. But Marbach was clever enough to see that and they went to Egypt and bought an outcross, the black Gharib.
> Or Nazeer, for some time you could hardly find any SE without Nazeer lines. Or the Minstril, for that matter
> 
> Inbreeding and linebreeding is an art, and if you do it wrong problems pop up.
> ...



Well said!:clap:


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

It's called _inbreeding_ if it causes problems, but it's called _linebreeding_ if it doesn't. 

It's all the same thing, and something with which I don't agree personally. I think there need to be outcrossings to keep genetic and mental problems at bay. 

You can see the dangers of inbreeding in the Ansata horses to this day, as well as some of the other SE strains. They started with some lovely horses, and wound up with crazy dingbats who had genetic issues because of all the inbreeding, um, _linebreeding_.

_Nobody's_ family tree should look like a straight stick with no branches. That goes for horses as well as people.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

You're so right
What gets me is, way back when, when there were very few Arabians available, breeders had to use what was there and did a pretty good job. Just checked my boy's pedigree...5x Bask, 17 x Skowronek, and he is not retarded in any way. That's because they used their breeding stockk wisely, they were BREEDERS, not multipliers of a current fad.
And there was nobody around who would try to get the genepool even tighter by screaming this one is not pure something or the other.........don't get me started on that one, tho ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AbsitVita (Aug 28, 2012)

Well Ladies thank you for your kind advice, I feel like I just got my hind end chewed out by a member on another thread about a similar posting I made...


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

It happens! ^^


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## AbsitVita (Aug 28, 2012)

texasgal said:


> It happens! ^^


Do they ever warn you about not sitting down afterwards, really sore!!!:shock:


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

They can only get ya if you let them! lol.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

AbsitVita said:


> Well Ladies thank you for your kind advice, I feel like I just got my hind end chewed out by a member on another thread about a similar posting I made...


For what it's worth, I didn't do anything of the sort to your hind end. I simply put forth an opinion, and politely too. If you don't like my opinion, that is your choice, but to suggest that I was out of line in the delivery of said opinion, that is a bit over the top. As for the bit where I said that maybe you should read up more on what inbreeding is, and what the pros and cons are, that is something that EVERY breeder should know about. Inbreeding doesn't cause personality issues, or mutations. It has negatives, yes, but it also has positives. However, in this mare's case, it's moot, as she is not inbred, and the horse in question, Raffles, suffered no ill-effects from his pedigree, as did none of his offspring. 

I would be happy to answer any questions you have on the subject of inbreeding, as many here seem to only see it as "incest" and "wrong", when there are benefits to it. 

PS - linebreeding and inbreeding are different, and it has nothing to do with the offspring's suitability for their intended purpose.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Chiilaa .. you can't control the way she feels. If she FELT like she got her butt chewed .. then it's about how she FELT. 

It's hard to tell the difference between "direct" and "butt chewing" sometimes ..

*cheers*


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

texasgal said:


> Chiilaa .. you can't control the way she feels. If she FELT like she got her butt chewed .. then it's about how she FELT.


*rolls eyes*

That is a ridiculous excuse. Remember when you were a kid and your brother or sister tried to look out "your" window in the car? Sure, you "felt" like they were doing it to annoy you. It didn't make it any less childish that you felt that way.

PS - you "liked" the post, so clearly you didn't think I was out of line...


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## AbsitVita (Aug 28, 2012)

Chiilaa said:


> For what it's worth, I didn't do anything of the sort to your hind end. I simply put forth an opinion, and politely too. If you don't like my opinion, that is your choice, but to suggest that I was out of line in the delivery of said opinion, that is a bit over the top. As for the bit where I said that maybe you should read up more on what inbreeding is, and what the pros and cons are, that is something that EVERY breeder should know about. Inbreeding doesn't cause personality issues, or mutations. It has negatives, yes, but it also has positives. However, in this mare's case, it's moot, as she is not inbred, and the horse in question, Raffles, suffered no ill-effects from his pedigree, as did none of his offspring.
> 
> I would be happy to answer any questions you have on the subject of inbreeding, as many here seem to only see it as "incest" and "wrong", when there are benefits to it.
> 
> PS - linebreeding and inbreeding are different, and it has nothing to do with the offspring's suitability for their intended purpose.


Thank you, I'm learning more as I go. It's been years since I was around horses, I'm a bit rusty. I'm also in a totally different aspect of horse worlds as well. I was just a horse crazy girl who barrel raced an old dobbin of questionable breeding in local county horse shows. Now, I'm a business owner trying to make my childhood dream a reality. Thanks for your information, I really will do my research on it.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

My point was that she didn't accuse you .. she only said it felt that way. Her feeling like she got a butt chewing is no different than you feeling like you got accused.

I'm sure neither happened, but didn't stop ya'll from feeling that way, huh?

*cheers*


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I'll help ya if you tell me where 
Had my share of heated discussions on a certain forum with a certain person and her followers....;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AbsitVita (Aug 28, 2012)

texasgal said:


> My point was that she didn't accuse you .. she only said it felt that way. Her feeling like she got a butt chewing is no different than you feeling like you got accused.
> 
> I'm sure neither happened, but didn't stop ya'll from feeling that way, huh?
> 
> *cheers*


Yea....*why can't we be friends...?* Just kiddin I won't sing War songs anymore!!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Ooooohhh, I didn't mean you Chilaa.....tho I said that "other forum", didn't I * thinking hard*....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

It's hard to read emotion into posts. It's easy to mistake direct for rude.


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## AbsitVita (Aug 28, 2012)

Crap! Chiilaa is from Australia, Down Under women are hard core butt kickers!! ***running away*** 

I'm kidding Chiilaa, but seriously I'd rather here the truth from a friend than lies from the enemy.


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## Cacowgirl (Feb 19, 2011)

I had a very nice Khemosabe granddaughter-I rode her for 17 years. She was in her late 20's when she cast herself & broke a hip. She has a special place in my heart.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

Business owner?

Ok now I have a few more thoughts, 

You can by a whole heard of untrained 1-3yo very nice arabians for what you are looking to pay for a lame mare and stud fees. Let other people absorb the risk and fees associated with breeding. Untrained horses are dirt cheap right now. There are several very well respected Arabian breeders in the midwest selling out or greatly reducing their herds due to drought. I just dont see how breeding makes any financial business sense currently.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

*whispers in joe's ear*

"Joe, it's her money. She wants THIS mare - ."


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

AbsitVita said:


> Do they ever warn you about not sitting down afterwards, really sore!!!:shock:


 
LOL! I think these kinds of threads ought to come with a Forum warning: "Donut cushions required prior to posting" or something like that. I've lost a few inches that way too, has made me very careful of what I post about my own horses if I'm not wanting to hear from the Negative Nellies.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> LOL! I think these kinds of threads ought to come with a Forum warning: "Donut cushions required prior to posting" or something like that. I've lost a few inches that way too, has made me very careful of what I post about my own horses if I'm not wanting to hear from the Negative Nellies.


Have you ever been to a certain forum of a certain type of extra pure Arabians? I funk you know what im talking about;-)
I swear I saw blood dripping on my computer screen.........
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AbsitVita (Aug 28, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Have you ever been to a certain forum of a certain type of extra pure Arabians? I funk you know what im talking about;-)
> I swear I saw blood dripping on my computer screen.........
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



:?Does not compute:?


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Have you ever been to a certain forum of a certain type of extra pure Arabians? I funk you know what im talking about;-)
> I swear I saw blood dripping on my computer screen.........
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
LOL! I've been to several different forums and because of the absolutely VILE people I have run into at them, I rarely go anywhere but this forum anymore. This forum is mostly civil and the mods here do a pretty good job of policing the uglies and the trolls. 

I have come to the conclusion that the Arabian breed draws more than its share of absolute NUTZ and wierdos, so I tend to stay fairly far away from large gatherings. 

I'm pretty sure I know which one you're talking about, and it's not one that I would frequent as I'm all about the Russian/Polish/Spanish crossings and more of an athletic but gorgeous, typey look. So I would not be at all welcome on a forum where the members are trying to make a shallow gene pool even drier. Not my thing at all.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> LOL! I've been to several different forums and because of the absolutely VILE people I have run into at them, I rarely go anywhere but this forum anymore. This forum is mostly civil and the mods here do a pretty good job of policing the uglies and the trolls.
> 
> I have come to the conclusion that the Arabian breed draws more than its share of absolute NUTZ and wierdos, so I tend to stay fairly far away from large gatherings.
> 
> I'm pretty sure I know which one you're talking about, and it's not one that I would frequent as I'm all about the Russian/Polish/Spanish crossings and more of an athletic but gorgeous, typey look. So I would not be at all welcome on a forum where the members are trying to make a shallow gene pool even drier. Not my thing at all.


You mean you like to cross with impure lines??????? How daaaaaaare you......

I had a cute little run in with a certain lady once, many many moons ago. She stated Ofir wasn't asil. I happened to have a gorgeous mover which was heavily Ofir bred at that time. She had opened another thread about movement for rideability, mainly dressage. So I posted a pic of my gelding and she was all thrilled and that he was the epitome of dressage movement and such...and that he must be asil .....had to bust her bubble
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

LOL, not only that, but I actually encourage outcrossing between strains and types of Arabians! 

Oh God, I know how those discussions can go, I gave up when I mentioned breeding my Magic Dream/Sanadik El Shaklan daughter to a QH for a lovely 1/2 Arab. I was told that my mare was now contaminated and could never produce pure offspring again, EVER! You can imagine how well that went over and just how warm the ensuing discussion became. 

So, yes, my Arabians are 'tainted' and according to that ilk, should never even be allowed in the registry. Joke 'em........etc etc


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

That's the forum!!!!! 
These folks are way beyond ridiculous, IMO
We don't have anything written down reliably once an ancestor reaches "DB"...it's all word of mouth. 
I'm not so sure that all bedus were honest, especially when they had stock stolen from them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

deserthorsewoman said:


> That's the forum!!!!!
> These folks are way beyond ridiculous, IMO
> We don't have anything written down reliably once an ancestor reaches "DB"...it's all word of mouth.
> I'm not so sure that all bedus were honest, especially when they had stock stolen from them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LOL! Yep! And you know that the Bedu all gave us their CULLS, they certainly weren't going to let the best go. 

The only Arabians I seriously have doubts about are the French and I wouldn't breed to a French Arab for all the tea in China. The French have been laughing at us for years and selling us those "pure" Arabs.......mmmmmmmm! 

So, I kinda treat those purists like us Catholics treat the Baptists here in OK. 

As a Catholic man was touring Heaven, he asked St. Peter what the walled off area was? St. Peter told him to be VERY quiet as they passed that area. He said, "Those are the Baptists, they think they're the only ones up here.".  I stay as far from the rabid purists as I can, they think they are the only ones who can breed a good horse.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Lol....

I agree with the French. But if you think about it, they race them. And the early Russian imports were raced and had rather straight profiles. Or the Spanish, used to resemble more an Andalusian than an Arab. I think every country breeds a little towards their ideas of a horse, through main use or taste. Just recently, with international air transport it has gotten a bit more uniform.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Lol....
> 
> I agree with the French. But if you think about it, they race them. And the early Russian imports were raced and had rather straight profiles. Or the Spanish, used to resemble more an Andalusian than an Arab. I think every country breeds a little towards their ideas of a horse, through main use or taste. Just recently, with international air transport it has gotten a bit more uniform.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
Yeah, but the French snigger and admit that they have infused TB blood, just not on paper. I saw *Oration when he first came to this country. I grew up raising TBs for the track, he looked a WHOLE lot like the horses my folks raised. And a pure bred at 16.2? or 16.3? That horse is HUGE! Not Arab-y looking at all. At least the Polish and Russians kept within breed standards even though they were a bit plain. But that's where outcrossing to the Spanish and Egyptians brought in the pretty. Look at 'em, they're even using Marwan now, to bring in more type and pretty.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

I find it so hard to believe in this day and age that anyone could believe that one breeding affects another. Really? It's one egg and one sperm. Each one different and separate from the other .....

I have a friend that is convinced that if two dogs breed the same female, then all of the puppies have BOTH male dogs for daddies. I tried to explain to her that there can be more than one daddy in a LITTER, but each pup has only one dad ..

Really?


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

True. Then again there's rumor that saddlebreds have been used to create the EP and Park horses of today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Texasgal, these people try to be holier than the Pope. And unfortunately especially in the Arabian world there are lots of people with money but without any background, or brain, for that matter, who believe what a so called expert preaches.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

deserthorsewoman said:


> True. Then again there's rumor that saddlebreds have been used to create the EP and Park horses of today.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
And if you look at some of the modern EP & Park horses, I got to wonder if there's not some Saddlebred in some of those woodpiles! But.....I just like to breed a typey, pretty, athletic and SWEET horse. I'm also all about Western Pleasure, trail and such too, so that's what I breed for. I am not about EXTREME in any fashion. 

With the economy the way it is today, I'm not breeding anyhow, so it's all fun to discuss but I won't be affecting anybody's gene pool at this point because I've quit. It's just too expensive to show and breed and then to have no market just doesn't work for me.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I just hope people come to their senses. Due to the economy im afraid a lot of valuable bloodlines will be gone soon. Mainly because these, usually older, proven ones, belong to smaller breeders. And those smaller breeders wont breed 50 mares a year to produce maybe two halter show winning foals who then can be sold for Mega bucks and the other 48 go on the truck to either Mexico or Canada. Sad sad, but true.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AbsitVita (Aug 28, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Texasgal, these people try to be holier than the Pope. And unfortunately especially in the Arabian world there are lots of people with money but without any background, or brain, for that matter, who believe what a so called expert preaches.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Desert, there's a term, which came to mind, as I read this post: Sheople! They are the people who live with blinders on, refuse to think for themselves [inside or outside the box] and they basically spew forth the same statements with which they have been brainwashed.....funny, because when they open their mouths all I can here is BAAAAAAH! BAAAAAH! BAAAAAAH!

I do not conform to anyone's standards but my own unless it deems to be an improvement for me!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

deserthorsewoman said:


> I just hope people come to their senses. Due to the economy im afraid a lot of valuable bloodlines will be gone soon. Mainly because these, usually older, proven ones, belong to smaller breeders. And those smaller breeders wont breed 50 mares a year to produce maybe two halter show winning foals who then can be sold for Mega bucks and the other 48 go on the truck to either Mexico or Canada. Sad sad, but true.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's true. The same folks who breed 400 foals/year and keep maybe 5, are still doing it, not slowing down one bit. Those of us who are into quality over quantity and mixing those old blood lines with new, to keep things fresh are stoping. I have a Khadraj daughter out of a Bay El Bey daughter, who produces gorgeous foals, and she's standing open. Her mother Carmel Bey produced awesome foals too, but she passed several years ago. KB's 15, so her fertility isn't a problem but in 5 years? What then? And I don't see me starting up again anytime in the near future, if ever. 

Check out this pedigree: 
Svs Khadraja Bey Arabian


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## othbsits (Jul 11, 2012)

Ya know.....this conversation has just gotten pretty sad. All the wonderful things about our breed and here we are again. No wonder our breed statistics are going in the toilet. We are our own worst enemy.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

othbsits said:


> Ya know.....this conversation has just gotten pretty sad. All the wonderful things about our breed and here we are again. No wonder our breed statistics are going in the toilet. We are our own worst enemy.


What are you referring to? I was thinkin' it was a pretty civil discussion. Just because we're discussing things that could be fixed within the breed, does not mean we don't like our Arabians or are bashing them. Ignoring the problems doesn't fix them.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

That's exactly what I mean. 
I had a Salon granddaughter in Germany. We didn't have many since he was barely used there. That changed when he arrived here, tho. She wasn't the prettiest, but man, could she move and talk about correct. She gave that correctness and movement to her foals, but let a lot from the stallion through, too. 
In fact, her daughter I bred is now in the Netherlands and from what I hear is doing pretty good in working cowhorse
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

othbsits said:


> Ya know.....this conversation has just gotten pretty sad. All the wonderful things about our breed and here we are again. No wonder our breed statistics are going in the toilet. We are our own worst enemy.


It is sad. Period. Or maybe you can tell me why dozens of Arabians are to be found in the various kill pens, or for next to nothing on CL?
Well meaning people can rescue only so many of them. This is why statistics go in the toilet...people like us here have seen where the market is and act accordingly. Now if only the money oriented people would see that too...we'd soon have a market again. Its supply and demand after all. 
And if you think that breeders with treasures like Dreamcatcher like leaving a valuable mare empty? He** no! 
So something has to change. Very much so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Svs Il Divo Arabian

I just gelded this guy, he produced some lovely babies, but I decided if I wasn't going to use him, might as well cut him. He's gorgeous and correct and moves like a dancer. He's also one of the easiest stallions I've ever handled. A total DREAM to ride.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I can't "like" from my cell, so consider him "liked", please
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

When I left my job in SoCal and retired to TN, the greatest of gifts was a book on Khemosabi, that my co-worker gave me.

She went to church with the Doctor and his wife who owned Khemosabi. The book was their creation and they had given one to my friend and co-worker.

My friend treasured the book but was not the devout Arab lover I have always been. I still have one Arab but, I wouldn't trade my TWH's for anything.

The book has remained under wraps in the attic, since we got to Tennessee. Every time I see "Khemosabi" mentioned on a forum, I think I need to dig the book out - except now it's probably 180 degrees in that attic and I can't remember which box he's in:?


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Hell be there when it cools off;-) and im sure you'll be reminded from time to time......

I just got the Westernhorseman book Arabian Legends. Couldn't get it when in Europe. So, I went through....and found that about 70% of the horses mentioned in there are in my boy's pedigree, and the majority of them pretty close up........got all red-eyed.......
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## othbsits (Jul 11, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> It is sad. Period. Or maybe you can tell me why dozens of Arabians are to be found in the various kill pens, or for next to nothing on CL?
> Well meaning people can rescue only so many of them. This is why statistics go in the toilet...people like us here have seen where the market is and act accordingly. Now if only the money oriented people would see that too...we'd soon have a market again. Its supply and demand after all.
> And if you think that breeders with treasures like Dreamcatcher like leaving a valuable mare empty? He** no!
> So something has to change. Very much so.
> ...





What I quoted here I agree with wholeheartedly! Many of us have broodmares of quality and underused lines sitting idle. And I am certainly tired of barns doing the shotgun method of breeding.


Perhaps I should have stated it better. I meant lumping all purists in one big pile. I don't care what some said. And eluding to the French horses not being pure...they are all registered by WAHO. All good Arabian breeders should stick together not pick each other apart and make fun of one another for our choices of lines. It would be a shame to loose anymore lines of any strains. But who in their right mind would want to come into a breed where everyone is picking apart everyone else.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

That's exactly my point! The purists of said caliber are the ones making themselves out to be better. And make people who have not straight this or that feel like "not worthy" and not part of the "clique". So the mutual bashing begins.......so lots of people get turned off.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## othbsits (Jul 11, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> .......so lots of people get turned off.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Yup!!!!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

othbsits said:


> Yup!!!!


 I wasn't bashing any one or anything. I expressed my opinion about the French Arabs and you're totally entitled to disagree. Saying that I should accept them as pure because WAHO says so is like telling me to drink the KoolAid at Jonestown because Jim said so......YEAH>>>>>NO, I think not. 

If you ask Bazy Tankersly what her favorite type of Arabian is, it will be way different from mine. Sheila Varian's choice will be different too and that is FINE. The red stallion I posted the pic of, he was still intact at the time, is my absolute IDEAL Arabian horse. He has the size, the looks, the temperament, the athleticism and he passed it on to his foals. I couldn't have asked for better but, in the market, it made sense to geld him. 

Unfortunately, in the Arabian breed, unless you have your horse in a BNT barn, you are pretty much breeding culls as far as the rest of the world is concerned. Unless you're content with breeding $1500 horses and that is not my cup of tea. 

So, if you want me to walk around smiling like a Stepford wife and saying everything is beautiful....sorry, not going to do it. There are serious and important issues that need to be addressed in this breed, that are not being addressed, and those reasons are a HUGE part of why the numbers are dwindling.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Svs Il Divo Arabian
> 
> I just gelded this guy, he produced some lovely babies, but I decided if I wasn't going to use him, might as well cut him. He's gorgeous and correct and moves like a dancer. He's also one of the easiest stallions I've ever handled. A total DREAM to ride.


That doesnt look like a Bey, bloodline. I see a couple in his lines way back. Padron was a big bodied Poilsh wasnt he ? honestly I am still working with my new Walker. she flat out flies for me and very flat efficient gait. But one of these days I'm gonna have to learn to trot. If I wasnt horse poor at the moment Id be talking to you about that gelding, 15.2 looks like a nice solid horse.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Joe4d said:


> That doesnt look like a Bey, bloodline. I see a couple in his lines way back. Padron was a big bodied Poilsh wasnt he ? honestly I am still working with my new Walker. she flat out flies for me and very flat efficient gait. But one of these days I'm gonna have to learn to trot. If I wasnt horse poor at the moment Id be talking to you about that gelding, 15.2 looks like a nice solid horse.


 
Joe, thank you so much for your kind comments about Cloney. No, he doesn't look like there's any Bey in him at all really, he took after the *Padron side and that's how he got his nickname, Cloney Padroney. If you look straight on, his blaze is as crooked as *Padron's and getting more so as he dries out. 

His dam Patrice C is a very substantial mare, as are his grand dam Kouleysza and his great grand dam Fetyszka. Fetyzska wasn't but about 14.1 or 2 but when that mare puffed up and put on a show, you'd have sworn she was 16 hands until she stood still, LOL! Kou, his grand dam is quite tall, I think she got that from Timmy, Kouvay Bey. 

Cloney is one of 3 horses on this property that will die here. Or he could be given to a cherished friend or family member, if I could not care for him, but he'll never be sold by me. I WORSHIP the ground that boy walks on. And to ride him! OMG that is the smoothest horses, including a couple of gaited horses, that I have ever ridden. When he jogs, it's like your sitting on a cloud it's so smooth. His canter just ROLLLLLLLS he gets so rounded....He's absolutely a dream.









*Padron









Cloney

He's also got *Padron's ears, tiny, curvey, tippy and set so close sometimes you think they come out of the same hole. And he's a lap dog. A total, in your tent, pet me, love me, fuss over me, lap dog and not a mean bone in his whole body.


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## othbsits (Jul 11, 2012)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> The only Arabians I seriously have doubts about are the French and I wouldn't breed to a French Arab for all the tea in China. The French have been laughing at us for years and selling us those "pure" Arabs.......mmmmmmmm!
> 
> So, I kinda treat those purists like us Catholics treat the Baptists here in OK.
> 
> As a Catholic man was touring Heaven, he asked St. Peter what the walled off area was? St. Peter told him to be VERY quiet as they passed that area. He said, "Those are the Baptists, they think they're the only ones up here.". I stay as far from the rabid purists as I can, they think they are the only ones who can breed a good horse.


and then you posted - I wasn't bashing any one or anything. I think the "rabid" purists, the French AND the Baptists would probably disagree!  I expressed my opinion about the French Arabs and you're totally entitled to disagree. Saying that I should accept them as pure because WAHO says so is like telling me to drink the KoolAid at Jonestown because Jim said so......YEAH>>>>>NO, I think not.

You know the, I don't have to except them as purebred because WAHO tells me to, sounds just like what you say comes off the forum you hate so much. Hummmmmm. 

Well, I'm done with this thread, it really appears to have gotten way off course. Started with the beautiful Khemosabi and now well, same old, same old.

By the way, nice horse.










​


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Well, I'm sorry you think that because I voiced certain things I was bashing, I didn't intend it to be. However, if you want to be upset and disgruntled with me, you'll certainly always be able to find a reason to do it, because I will always say what I'm thinking when it pertains to the conversation I'm having. If it offends you, sorry, guess you should probably put me on ignore because you won't like what I have to say fairly frequently. 

You're aware that AHA only recently rejoined WAHO, aren't you? And that was because they wouldn't accept certain horses from Brazil and WAHO said they had to. Well, AHA finally knuckled under because the overseas market is just too lucrative to ignore, but I don't think it changed the questionable horses DNA one bit. 

One of the major problems we have in this breed is that no one wants to realize that the 70's & 80's are over and Lasma no longer exists and folks aren't shelling out the $$$ they used to, to support all the expensive things everyone wants to continue to see but no one wants to pay to support. 

Then there's those who want to sweep things under the rug and pretend they don't exist, til their stinkin' like a week old homicide victim.

And there are those who don't want to discuss anything with a new comer and resent when the new comers find stuff out on their own and bring it up. We can't keep hiding, a lot of this stuff needs to be brought out and acknowleged and blown away by the light of day so it can't ever return. 

Until then, regardless of the economy, we will keep losing people and horses and bloodlines. We are going to lose a lot of them this winter when people really start dumping horses at auction or they're being seized because they're starving. That's not just an Arabian problem, but it's going to affect them the most because they're the smallest numbers.


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## AbsitVita (Aug 28, 2012)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Well, I'm sorry you think that because I voiced certain things I was bashing, I didn't intend it to be. However, if you want to be upset and disgruntled with me, you'll certainly always be able to find a reason to do it, because I will always say what I'm thinking when it pertains to the conversation I'm having. If it offends you, sorry, guess you should probably put me on ignore because you won't like what I have to say fairly frequently.
> 
> You're aware that AHA only recently rejoined WAHO, aren't you? And that was because they wouldn't accept certain horses from Brazil and WAHO said they had to. Well, AHA finally knuckled under because the overseas market is just too lucrative to ignore, but I don't think it changed the questionable horses DNA one bit.
> 
> ...


Watch out, Dream, I hear the faint bleating of another sheople ::cocks ear:: YUP!! You go girl, I value your opinions very much, whether on this thread or another!


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## ArabBossMare (Jul 11, 2012)

Speed Racer said:


> It's called _inbreeding_
> You can see the dangers of inbreeding in the Ansata horses to this day, as well as some of the other SE strains. They started with some lovely horses, and wound up with crazy dingbats who had genetic issues because of all the inbreeding, um, _linebreeding_.


I'd be curious to hear of the genetic issues with heavily Ansata horses. My experience with them has been tons of personality, very correct legs and feet, very athletic and extreme intelligence but they do not suffer fools lightly. The Ansata horses I've been fortunate enough to know have been solid built with good substance and feet like iron. Outside of LFS, SCID and CA, which is found in all bloodlines maybe I'm out of the loop on other problems? 

Edited to add LFS being mainly a Straight Egyptian thing while SCID is not nearly as much.

As far as the French Arabians (gods do I even want to go there?) to me, an Arabian should first and foremost LOOK like an Arabian. I've seen very few French Arabians that fit that criteria in my very humble opinion. Not a bloodline source I'm interested in. And before anyone says it's because I have Straight Egyptians I think that way, one of my favorite all time breeding groups are Gainey horses with Raffles and I adore Spanish and Russian breds... I just happen to have fallen head over heels for the Egyptians, especially the Ansata lines. To me, they represent what a classic, athletic Arabian horse should look like


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Personally, I love my Khemo bred horses. I have always found that they have had incredible minds and temperments that are second to one, and are incredible athletes. 
As per Bey Shah bred horses, I've heard over and over they are hot heads. I have three Bey Shah granddaughters, and my stallion (avatar) is out of a Bey Shah son, and they are awesome. Never had an issue with a Bey Shah bred horse.

I also adore my CMK horses. I think this is where I'm going in the future, which is why a lot of my stock is for sale right now. 
My latest stallion prospect is 100% CMK bred on the top, and out of a Khemosabi daughter. What a cross that was!
These are my Khemo guys.


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