# Black...or...Brown?



## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

This is one of my friends horses. He's a 2 year old colt. Already well over 15 hands. (15 at withers, 15.2/15.3 a butt) He's a lovely lovely boy. Has the sweetest, in your pocket disposition. He's just...huge.

He's outside 24/7. It's been SOOOO hot and sunny this year. Like, more so then the past couple of years.

Middle picture is him last September, around 1.6 years old. Taken around sundown. And just barely starting to grow a winter coat.

So is he genetically black or brown?

*Yes, pictures are posted with permission of owner*


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## cakemom (Jul 4, 2010)

I'm gOnna go with brown. My fading black
is seriously black until about mid may.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

The top and bottom pictures were just taken in the past couple of days. He is much more faded this year then he was last year.

Last year he looked like he did in the middle picture, but we only had 12 90 degree days last year, this year already we've had 8. No rain, all sun. Even our grass is dead already this year. That doesn't happen until August. I'm sure that plays a part but I, too, am still kind of leaning towards brown.

Here's a baby picture...


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

*bump*

Calling the color...guru's 
Chiilaa? NDAppy? Poseiden?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

I think brown, from the little I have picked up. 

But don't take me seriously.. I am way beginner when it comes to colours.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Have you got any pictures taken that aren't at sunset?


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

I have a few on my other phone that ill work in getting posted. If i can get them, that phone fell in water at saturdays horse show. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

I wonder if either parent carries a cream gene. He looks like he could be a smokey black.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

His sire does not carry cream and dam is bay. So i dont think so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GhostwindAppaloosa (Jun 3, 2011)

i vote black. however.. the only true way to know is a red test  only 25.00 and super easy to pull the hair for it.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

I would say brown. look at the color in his flank and arm pit.
Ghost.. where do you get the red test kit  in case anyone wants to get one.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Both UC Davis and Animal Gentics test.

http://www.horsetesting.com/http://www.horsetesting.com/Equine.asp

Horse Tests


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## SAsamone (Nov 5, 2009)

I had a colt that looked just like that and on his papers they said "seal brown"....never heard of it, but that's what he looked like- right down to the redish tips on the mane.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

I'd do a test for agouti unless you think he might be a really dark liver chestnut. Black, brown and bay all show up the same on the red factor. (Ee or EE)


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## SAsamone (Nov 5, 2009)

Good point!! ^^


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## GhostwindAppaloosa (Jun 3, 2011)

the only reason im voting black is i have a paso that has the same color with the browning on body in the summer. and she came up as black on her test Ee


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## BarrelRacingLvr (Feb 26, 2012)

I say brown.........


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

GhostwindAppaloosa said:


> the only reason im voting black is i have a paso that has the same color with the browning on body in the summer. and she came up as black on her test Ee


That is black based, not always black. A horse that is Ee is not red based, that is all that test tells you. Being Ee or EE doesn't mean the horse isn't bay, or grulla, or perlino, or buckskin. All those colours would test as Ee or EE too.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

From looking at the websites that were posted, all you check for is black factor which would be present in black or brown. Is there another test that we are not seeing?


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

The agouti test. I believe there are different agouti markers that determine brown or blpack.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Ok. So if they look black, are homozygous for black, and homozygous recessive on the agouti test, then they are black. Right?

But they still fade?


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I am told that my horse was tested as homozygous black before I bought her as a filly. I was not worried about it and I never demanded to see the paperwork which was not readily available. As you can see, she fades. She is perfectly black as the seasons change and I assume that she would be black if she were stabled. So is my horse still black?


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Yes your horse is still black. Just because a black horse fades in the sun does not mean that the horse is not a black..


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

My hair faded to white. Does that mean I am still a blonde?
(Sorry. Couldn't resist.)


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

You can test for agouti in different labs. Most labs don't tell if the horse is bay, wild bay or brown - they just test for the presence of one or two recessive alleles. So they run the test, and the test tells them the horse is aa, a_ or _ _. From those results they can tell how many dominant alleles they carry, or don't carry. The PetDNA (IIRC they are the ones who test for brown, but it is early here and I haven't had my caffeine yet...) actually test to see which dominant alleles are there - so their test returns a A_, AA, AtAt, At_, _ _ sort of thing. Through any other company, brown tests the same as bay, because they are both caused by dominant mutations of agouti.


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## slobberslug (Jun 26, 2012)

my horse is a very dark bay, he looks black from one angle and very dark bay in bright sunlight!! It is lovely though because in the sun he looks dappled!!


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