# Joe The Mule! (IMG heavy and video)



## Lucara (Apr 5, 2008)

So this is sorta kinda a critique. I went to visit Joe and there were things that I liked and things that I REALLY didn't like. Joe himself is just the biggest sweetheart! He lives to be petted and even rested his head against me a few times and he just met me! He needs quite a bit of work. Hes never trotted before, and wont stand for mounting. Hes only juust turning 4 so none of it is much of a surprise. What I didn't like was their methods of training him. In order to mount him, they twitch him. This REALLY ****es me off. Hes only 4 years old and in my opinion, thats just a sloppy fast way to get results. They also use some sort of metal bosal with pressure points on it. I cant remember what they called it but it started with a "C" I think? Anyway, they mentioned that using it will cut them and rub the hair off their face. They used it on their mare when they wanted to train her to load in the trailer. I guess she used to try to run so they tied her to the trailer using a lunge line and the metal bosal and when she took off to run, she would hit the end of the line and snap back. Personally I think thats a good way to permanently fudge up their nose and another sloppy way to get fast results. If you look very very closely at Joes face you can see little cuts on him from the bosal. 
They want $1000 for him which, even though hes stunning and has decent ground manners, its out of my price range. Especially for a horse that has to be twitched to mount, cant go past a walk, and is only just turning 4 that isn't registered. Oh, did I mention that he wont walk with a halter? They have to use a bridle if they want to taken him anywhere.

Another HUGE thing that bugged me was Cathy. She is one of their friends that is riding him in the pictures (Not the owner). They must have mentioned at least 10 times how they have such a great bond and how he was "her horse". I had to bite my tongue from asking why the hell she just didn't purchase him or why they didnt just give him to her. ARGH

Here are some pictures of him and his video. Let me know what you think of him.


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## Lucara (Apr 5, 2008)

Videos to come as soon as they load up.


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## Andi (Aug 20, 2008)

I don't know what the going prices of mules are, but if they have to use those methods then either Joe is or was badly behaved and you didn't see it, or they are hopeless trainers and then you don't know what has been done to him. 

He's a nice mule, and if you want him and are willing to do work with him he might turn out fine. But it might be a fair bit of work. 

The owners sound really not great.


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## Jubilee (Dec 15, 2008)

Lucara, Joe looks like a very nice mule. He's got nice conformation and he sounds friendly from your description. But I would not suggest you get him. You still consider yourself a beginner rider, right? If that's the case then Joe is not the right horse for you. Don't let his sweet personality cause you to make a decision you may regret later. It sounds like he has some serious training issues. That is not the kind of animal you need to get for your second horse. For that price you can get a much better trained horse. 

Please take my word for it. My first horse was overpriced and undertrained, but he was beautiful and I fell in love with him. Though I have fond memories of him, he WAS NOT a good choice for my first horse. I learned a lot from him, but if I could go back and do things differently I would (Don't get me wrong, I really did love him). Stick with it, you'll find that perfect horse sooner than you think. Don't settle for something that's not perfect for you. Joe will find a good home somewhere else, he is a fine looking mule.

Good luck,

Jubilee


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## Lucara (Apr 5, 2008)

I agree with what everyone is saying. I'm going to have my instructor look over the videos and get her opinion on it as well. I'm going to keep looking because I doubt the people will drop his price as low as I want anyway.

Here are 2 videos that I took. The first is just of me leading him around and the second is of him being twitched and ridden by Cathy.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

I'm glad you're gonna keep looking... =) 
He's really nice looking guy and he looks like he wants to do the right thing really badly but it's going to take someone a long time to undo some of the stuff those people have done to him.

My other question is why are they riding him in a curb, even a short shanked one, when he is only 4, 3 really, and basically completely green? I'd be concerned to see what he's like being ridden when he's in a more appropriate bit... =/


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## Jubilee (Dec 15, 2008)

I have never seen anyone twitch their horse to mount. In my opinion that is a disaster waiting to happen. All that will teach him will to be tense and dread being mounted even more. They are simply being impatient. They are approaching his training all wrong. That bit he is wearing is called a Curb bit. In the right hands curb bits can be great tools, but they are meant to refine an already trained horse, not for training a youngster. They are also not meant to be used with constant pressure. Do you see how the lady is pulling on his mouth right at the beginning like that? Joe's mouth is gaped open. That is NOT how a curb bit is meant to be used. A curb bit works off leverage, meaning that the presure you put on the riens is multiplied in the horse's mouth. If you pull with two onces of pressure, it's going to feel like four or six onces of presure to the horse. The rider is using way too much presure on his mouth and it is causing him pain. He did calm down partway through, which is great. In the right hands I can tell he could be a great riding mule. But they are going about it all wrong. 

Go ahead and let your instructor see the videos. But please, consider my warning. Don't get this mule. I love mules and they can be great riding animals, but I can forsee a lot of problems with this mule. Have you're instructor look at it and I'm sure she will say the same.

I'm just trying to look out for you. I've been in your shoes.

Jubilee


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## Lucara (Apr 5, 2008)

Here is the last video of him being saddled (took a while to load).


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## pepperduck (Feb 14, 2008)

I think he looks like a nice mule, however for the price I wouldn't buy him. Obviously these people don't know what they are doing. If you want to offer them a lower price, then I say go for it, but don't pay what they are asking. When you call, I would offer and say considering what training he has had and how much training he's had you are willing to pay xxxx amount, but that's it. It also seems like people are saying you don't have experience with green horses. If this is the case, then I say try to find something with proper training. If you don't mind me asking, what are you looking for, where about are you, and how much are you looking to spend? I can always look around if you would like.


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## Lucara (Apr 5, 2008)

pepperduck said:


> I think he looks like a nice mule, however for the price I wouldn't buy him. Obviously these people don't know what they are doing. If you want to offer them a lower price, then I say go for it, but don't pay what they are asking. When you call, I would offer and say considering what training he has had and how much training he's had you are willing to pay xxxx amount, but that's it. It also seems like people are saying you don't have experience with green horses. If this is the case, then I say try to find something with proper training. If you don't mind me asking, what are you looking for, where about are you, and how much are you looking to spend? I can always look around if you would like.


I don't. My riding instructor is going to show me how to train a horse. Its something that I am extremely interested in learning and Joe originally seemed like a good start since he was supposedly already started and doing well.

I have an add up in the classifieds if you want to check that out. It will answer everything that I am looking for. =)


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## hntrjmpr (Jan 11, 2009)

uhmmm yeah, wow. For his price he isn't worth it. If they would offer you a much much lower price I would consider it a rescue if anything because that is NOT how to train a horse...at all. I mean twitching to mount? Haha, I would have said no thanks and left right there


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Ahhhhhhh!!! *headdesk!!!* I am speechless. TWITCHING to mount?!?! I have never.ever.seen that before. I am thoroughly disgusted. Although the poor mule - did you see how she slammed onto his back when she mounted up?? I had to stop the video, I was ready to punch my computer screen.
3 people to help one person mount? Are you kidding? If you can't lead the mule without a bridle for crying out loud, get a trainer. 
I am disgusted. 
Honestly, I'd try and buy the poor mule to just take it out of that awful home... 
However, I think someone mentioned that you're a beginner? I would avoid green horses, and look for something very broke. 

Oh man, my heart goes out to that poor thing


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## Lucara (Apr 5, 2008)

Well I'm not really looking for something very broke since I want the experience of training something. Granted, an already messed up mule wasn't exactly my first choice. =/ You also have to remember that I'm not training him on my own. My instructor will be doing most of the training and just showing me so that I can try it on my own. She lives maybe 10ft from where he will be boarded.

I've talked to a couple mule owners and apparently doing things like twitching a mule can be extremely dangerous for you after he gets tired of putting up with it. IF I decide to get him we would have to start him over as if hes practically just a new born. I would hate leaving him there but I also want something that I can also handle on my own so its something that I'm really going to have to discuss with my instructor.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

He's a nice looking mule but I'd definitely pass. Whoever gets him will have a long road ahead of retraining. Unless you want to put that work in him.

Does it really matter if he's registered? That doesn't get you much unless you breed or do breed specific shows.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Yes, you will have to go back to square one. Start completely new.. remember, when you're looking at horses/donks/mules for sale, the owners do NOT want to show you any "dark" sides, they keep everything nice and vanilla. They hide the bad stuff - so considering they have 3 people to mount one lady, as well as the mule being twitched, I am willing to bet that there's more going on when you're not looking.
I'm not saying all horsepeople are bad and out to get you, but I would be VERY wary of someone who TWITCHES (!!!!) to mount. 
Gaaahhh!! I can't get over that. 
Cowboys used to twitch an ear to mount for the first time, but that was the old, barbaric way of doing things. They would do that to get on the broncs for the first time.

Anyways, if you get him, then best of luck. I usually don't like to see "green on green" but if you're going to be working with an instructor then absolutely go for it, but know your limits. 

Best of luck on your decision.


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## FjordFan (Oct 3, 2008)

I think he looks gorgeous but $1,000 is quite a bit for an animal with those issues.


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## RedHawk (Jun 16, 2008)

JustDressageIt said:


> Honestly, I'd try and buy the poor mule to just take it out of that awful home...


Same!  It could be hard work to fix him, but it would be rewarding in the end. Best of luck whatever your decision!


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## Lucara (Apr 5, 2008)

I'm kind of back and forth on what to do. I'm not really concerned about the time I would have to put into him, that's what I wanted to get him for in the first place. What I'm worried about is that mules apparently imprint pain into their minds and I'm wondering if that's something that can be corrected. Hes still very much a baby so I don't see why not but I guess theres always that chance. I'm still waiting to hear back from my instructor. I'm hoping she sends me something before I go to work! =/ I'll be figity all day!

I'm still waiting to hear back from the lady I'm wanting to board him with. She hasn't been around for a few days but I think my instructor saw her last night and went over to talk to her. If she wont let me board over there then I cant do any of this at all.


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## toosexy4myspotz (Oct 7, 2007)

Hes beautiful but first I have never seen anyone twitch a horse for mounting and I cant believe they are using a curb on him. Poor guy. Little things like that can take a long time to correct.


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## toosexy4myspotz (Oct 7, 2007)

If you do decide to get him make sure you reinforce good behavor like clockwork with him. Mules are good for remembering pain and what causes them pain they will have nothing to do with it. But that is a mule for you. Honestly, It may take a while for him to understand that you are not going to twitch him to mount. Get a mounting block and lay over his back and just rub and pet him. Then get down and repeat. That way he can start associating it with good things to come. The bit either use a bitless or get a simple snaffle. Mules are very caring and very good companions. Sense he is young you will have to work a little harder at undoing what the other folks done but he needs lots more groundwork. Thats evident by the videos. Better groundwork and being more consistant with him will bring out the better and he will eventually learn that it is okay.


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## Lucara (Apr 5, 2008)

Well, Joe is a no go. The owner called me today to mention that someone had offered 1k for him and asked if I still wanted him, if so I could pay the 1k and have him over the other guy. I had to tell her that 1k was too much to pay for an animal that needed that much re-training. So, I'm on the look out for something else!
I sure hope he goes to decent place! He sure was a sweety!


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## Jubilee (Dec 15, 2008)

I think that's for the best. I'm glad you're keeping such a positive attitude. Keep looking. And really take time to enjoy this searching process. Honestly, after I bought my horse I actually MISSED horse hunting . Your perfect horse/mule is out there for you somewhere. 

Jubilee


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## hntrjmpr (Jan 11, 2009)

Jubilee said:


> I think that's for the best. I'm glad you're keeping such a positive attitude. Keep looking. And really take time to enjoy this searching process. Honestly, after I bought my horse I actually MISSED horse hunting . Your perfect horse/mule is out there for you somewhere.
> 
> Jubilee


Same! I absolutely love horse hunting and will do it for anyone at anytime! If I know them or not 

I only hope that the guy that bought him will take the time to give little Joe the care and attention (and most of all, TRAINING) he deserves!


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

Things always happen for a reason. Remember that!

At first I thought he was a really nice mule, really sweet (from the video)
Until I saw the one of them mounting and twitching him. But that has already been covered, so I'm not going to go into it.

Good luck on your horse/mule search!


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## BarneyBabby (Nov 18, 2008)

were do you live?? I am going to help you out a find you mule.


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## Lucara (Apr 5, 2008)

BarneyBabby said:


> were do you live?? I am going to help you out a find you mule.


I live in Fla within the 33837 zip code. =D The mule has to be over 15h. Other than that, go for it! I'm open to Jennies but not mare horses. :lol:


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## jeddah31 (Jun 11, 2008)

:shock: I really have nothing to say. I'd say go for it if you want.. but take your trainer with you to look at him if you decide to. I wish all the best for that poor creature


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