# Worst crosses you have heard of?



## TheAQHAGirl

Ok so I was talking about crosses with a friend, and on my gosh.

I saw a TWH x Gypsy.

It was very interesting, he was also a stallion and he has a couple foals on the way...

I've also heard of a mule/arab/thoroughbred before.

What about anyone else? 
Have any rather interesting crosses you know of?


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## oh vair oh

Oops, this is the WORST crosses. My bad. lol.


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## HighstepperLove

I'm really curious to know what the TWH/Gypsy cross looked like. I would have NEVER thought of that one.


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## Muppetgirl

I'm too scared to answer, as I got my butt whooped in another thread today....but there are some (not bad) but strange ones out there! :lol:


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## PunksTank

I've got a shetland pony gypsy vanner cross at my rescue xD He's freaking adorable, but a few horrible conformation issues >.< We've just learned that his teeth don't line up, he's SO sow mouth his teeth don't even touch! He'll need to be floated at least twice a year and his foods gotta be softened. -.-'
According to the breeders, their shetland mare got loose and found a gypsy stallion, didn't know she was pregnant or who the dad was until it was too late. Luckily she birthed safely despite him being as big as her at 6 months old o.o
This is him a little more than a year:


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## Muppetgirl

PunksTank said:


> I've got a shetland pony gypsy vanner cross at my rescue xD He's freaking adorable, but a few horrible conformation issues >.< We've just learned that his teeth don't line up, he's SO sow mouth his teeth don't even touch! He'll need to be floated at least twice a year and his foods gotta be softened. -.-'
> According to the breeders, their shetland mare got loose and found a gypsy stallion, didn't know she was pregnant or who the dad was until it was too late. Luckily she birthed safely despite him being as big as her at 6 months old o.o
> This is him a little more than a year:


Awwwww I want one for my daughter! That is cute! Shame about the teeth though


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## myhorsesonador

TheAQHAGirl said:


> Ok so I was talking about crosses with a friend, and on my gosh.
> 
> I saw a TWH x Gypsy.
> 
> It was very interesting, he was also a stallion and he has a couple foals on the way...
> 
> I've also heard of a mule/arab/thoroughbred before.
> 
> What about anyone else?
> Have any rather interesting crosses you know of?


Are you talking about Ripley?


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## PunksTank

Haha yes they'd make wonderful little ponies, he could do just about anything fast xD He loves to go! Gallops around his paddock full speed, hair pin turns - he's a ball to watch. But I really wouldn't recommend the cross, being such a big size difference and the clear conformation issues that'll make his life tough.


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## TheAQHAGirl

PunksTank said:


> I've got a shetland pony gypsy vanner cross at my rescue xD He's freaking adorable, but a few horrible conformation issues >.< We've just learned that his teeth don't line up, he's SO sow mouth his teeth don't even touch! He'll need to be floated at least twice a year and his foods gotta be softened. -.-'
> According to the breeders, their shetland mare got loose and found a gypsy stallion, didn't know she was pregnant or who the dad was until it was too late. Luckily she birthed safely despite him being as big as her at 6 months old o.o
> This is him a little more than a year:


Aww, hes sooo cute! The story does seem a bit odd though. Whatever, shes very cute!


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## TristaJean

Belgian x Arabian

I love both of the breeds, but they did just not combine well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WalnutPixie

A TWH x Gypsey! Wow, I wouldn't have thought of that either. A gaited horse with TWH build and Gypsey color and hair does sound nice, but I bet it's far more likely to get the exact opposite with that cross. xD I don't suppose they have an ad somewhere for this stallion with pictures on it?

I have known two Welsh x Quarter horse crosses. They were very spunky little things! The intention was to produce a larger children's mount but they both proved to be quite the handful. They were pretty easy on the eyes, though. Nice and refined like a welsh and with flashy gaits, but with more muscle and size. One was the most amazing dappled grey for a few years when he was younger. Prettiest color I've ever seen!

There's also a Paint x Fjord yearling for sale down the road from me. She didn't turn out well I'm afraid. She looks kind of like a potato with spots O.O

My personal favorite is Saddlebred x Belgian or other heavy draft. It sounds awful, but for some reason the horses are usually amazing. I think there's even a new breed founded on this cross; the Georgian Grand or something like that. Love, love, love it!


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## WalnutPixie

Oh, oh! I didn't see that this was supposed to be the _worst_ crosses. Sorry about that. You can just pretend that I was only talking about the potato filly, then. Haha! The welsh and saddlebred crosses were all quite nice.


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## kenda

Saw a Haflinger/Freisen cross once...it was about 6 or so years old but looked like an immature 2 year old. Super narrow in the chest, big belly, upright neck, weak hind end. Just a weird looking horse, super sweet in your pocket, but weird looking.


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## HighstepperLove

Bahahahaha potato filly. Too funny!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tianimalz

I bet Potato Jesus would love to own a Potato Filly to ride around on! Seems perfect to me 8D


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## Joidigm

I'm not a fan of Friesian crosses. I swear, they will cross a Friesian with ANYTHING!!!!!!! I was recently introduced to a TWH being used to cross with Friesians, to get a finer, smoother gaited horse (basically a gaited Friesian with twice as much hair).

Walnut, a Georgia Grande is an American Saddlebred crossed with a draft, but with the recent kick in Friesian popularity, most GG's I have heard of are ASB x Friesians. To the point I just had to go look it up again, because I swore they were only ASB x Friesians as of late.

Worst I have ever seen though, a Tennessee Walking Horse crossed with a Percheron. He was huge, lanky, with a long, ugly head haha. Like that beautiful Walker head, nice and long, on steroids. He had the twist in the gait of the Walker too, but didn't gait or pace.

A funky cross, some how ended up being absolutely gorgeous, was a Standardbred crossed with an Appaloosa. Tiny, tiny hunter pony sized at barely 14hh, but was so bright red and spotted with tons of platinum blonde mane and tail. Really weird, but cute.


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## Saddlebag

A friend had a Percheron/Arabian. He was Percheron huge with an itty bittty Arab head.


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## JustDressageIt

Some of the worst crosses I've seen are Friesian crosses. I dislike Friesian crosses as is on principle, but I think that a lot of people breed with them to just have a Friesian cross big fluffy half-rare pony. 
Plus the registry kicks out any cross-breeders, so the fantastic stallions stay purebred to keep in the registry.. I think that says a lot about quality too. 
Anyways.. 

Umm. Gaited/non gaited crosses sometimes confuse me as well. Draft crosses can turn out really well or poorly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Joidigm

Friesian breeders cross Friesians to get a "baroque" look mixed with something freaky (ASB) to refine or (TWH) gait a Friesian. Which is nuts to me, but I don't consider Friesians to be baroque horses. It's just a super expensive cart horse to me, not a horse bred once for war.

But each breed has its party.

Have you seen the leopard spotted Friesian yet? A black and white Appaloosa with size and hair!!!!!!!! :rofl: I'll find a picture.


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## Joidigm

This is the HF thread on him. Note, NOT a Knabstrupper cross. :\

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeds/leopard-friesian-59064/


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## AnrewPL

"mule/arab/thoroughbred before"



Wow, a mule cross with something is incredibly rare, they are almost always sterile.


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## TimberRidgeRanch

mules are always sterile
The friesian/appy cross is gorgeous if you ask me.


TRR


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## ParaIndy

It was probably donkey, not mule.


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## AnrewPL

Mules are not always sterile, I thought they were, but after having a look it appears there have been quite a few, though still very rare given the numbers of mules in the world, viable, living offspring from mules.


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## Ashsunnyeventer

At my barn they breed Arabs with and Irish Draught. From what I've seen, it can turn out really well or really bad. The best ones are 3/4 draught and 1/4 arab. The not so good ones are the ones with more arab in them.


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## EmilyJoy

I'm going to guess it was a donkey crossed with a mare that was a Arabian/thoroughbred...


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## ParaIndy

Good guess.


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## barrelbeginner

Joidigm said:


> This is the HF thread on him. Note, NOT a Knabstrupper cross. :\
> 
> http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeds/leopard-friesian-59064/


I think this horse is gorgeous!.... Im not good with confo.. is there alot wrong with him??


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## barrelbeginner

Never heard of a mule.. being.. ABLE to breed?


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## JustDressageIt

barrelbeginner said:


> I think this horse is gorgeous!.... Im not good with confo.. is there alot wrong with him??


He's quite eye-catching, but he's very long backed, weak loin, weak hindquarter, IMO. 



barrelbeginner said:


> Never heard of a mule.. being.. ABLE to breed?


Some are not sterile.


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## Kayty

Another on the bandwagon of not liking friesian x's. They are too distinct a breed to be crossing with other horses. 
Even the growing in popularity, "friesian warmbloods", I think are pretty awful. I have yet to see one that I like, they seem to inherit the bad genes :/ Long backs that don't swing, hocks that don't actually come under the horse, upright neck, big heads and far too much hair. 

Then there's the standardbred crosses. I can count the number of standardbreds that I would have liked to ride, on one hand... and not towards the fifth finger either.... WHY would you cross them with other breeds such as quarters horses, appies etc. WHY??? I've seen a stb x friesian, NOT a functional horse in any stretch of the imagination, but because it had 'friesian' in its lines and was black... people fawn over the god awful thing.


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## QOS

A friend of mine has a Friesian/Morgan and Hershey is a lovely boy. He was born and bred in Texas, owner was originally from Germany. She recently moved back to Europe and took Hershey with her. She was able to get him registered under some sport registry there. Hershey is a gorgeous horse with fabulous movement. she did a ton of dressage and eventing on Hershey as well as plain old trail riding!


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## Joidigm

Mississippi Horses(.org) has a STB x TWH that is non gaited. She is a very pretty bay, but I stop there lol. Two gaited parents, and she isn't gaited. *shakes head* Beats me.


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## PunksTank

I personally love standardbred draft crosses, they just beef up standardbreds, smooth out their wretched gait (for riding at least ) and make em shiny <3

As for Friesian crosses, I don't even like most friesians - people don't see past the hair. They're huge and box shaped, everything about them is boxy, I like my horses round. Crossing them with anything just makes a more square version of whatever they bred it too, too long, too angular. 

I simply don't see the facination behind behind breeding for color either, breed Strong Healthy horses - I'm so sick of getting calls at our rescue for 15 year old blind appaloosas, at least 1 a month. Or deaf splash paints. Breeders seriously need to start looking past the color and the hair and looking at the health and sanity of the horses they're breeding.

I'm a firm believer in only breeding within a horse's 'circle' crosses are fantastic, but breeding two completely different animals gives you far too far a range of conformation faults to try to ward off. Look at my pony, who's got the top jaw of a horse and the bottom jaw of a pony. What I mean by 'circle' is breeding them with horses in their ancestry or descended breeds, or even breeds that are similar in style.


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## foreveramber

At my old barn there were two mixed-breeds that we made up hilarious names for:
Appabellamustavarian = Appaloosa, Belgian, mustang, Hanoverian
Appabellamustarabian = Appaloosa, Belgian, mustang, Arabian


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## iRide Ponies

Hmmmm, lets see...

ArabxWelshxTBxClydesdalexStationbredxPaintxAppaloosa.

Sounds horrible? I own it. Shes quite cute confowise (Not perfect, but more than capable of staying sound and moving nice) but I think once the list of breeds gets THAT LONG its just bad.

Worst breed cross that resulted in a hideous horse? TBxShetland. Poor thing couldn't balance cause its head was too big and its legs were too short.


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## rookie

I think it's a waste of horse flesh to crossbreed standardbred the breed is great the way it is! You can't register the crosses and people tend to cross the with weird stuff like fresians. You say you have a fresian cross and all I think is that you had a bad fresian you could not get into the registry but wanted a stud fee. I think have not been overly impressed by lot of Arabian crosses.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WalnutPixie

I'm not terribly fond of friesian crosses either. Actually, they're kind of a pet peeve of mine. Friesians themselves are fantastic cart horses but I just don't get why people will pay so much to use them for riding. Most of the time the crosses are the offspring of a very poorly put together stallion and a mix of two breeds that don't go together. I hear people say things like "I wanted a friesian but I couldn't afford one so I bred my paint mare to a friesian stallion. Now I have a friesian with spots." Ugh! No! 

First of all, it really gets to me that people will call a half friesian a 'friesian' as though it was a purebred, even though its mother was a thoroughbred or something. They conveniently neglect to mention that. The other thing I don't like is that the horses are usually very awkward and more often than not have less than functional conformation and yet they are held in such high regard! I wonder if some people are just incapable of seeing past the hair.

Then, on the other hand, I really like friesian x percheron crosses. That's a match that makes sense. I'd like to have a team of those!


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## TheAQHAGirl

AnrewPL said:


> "mule/arab/thoroughbred before"
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, a mule cross with something is incredibly rare, they are almost always sterile.


Sometimes I just get too confused with donkeys and mules. I meant to say donkey, sorry about that!


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## AnrewPL

No, no, thank you. I always thought mules were flat out sterile; I did some digging however before I went shooting my mouth off and found that, though it is rare some of them can indeed have viable offspring. Apparently it’s not so much about different chromosomes making them sterile, but just how the genes and chromosomes match up in the individual that decides whether or onto they can reproduce. So basically I learned something new. Thanks.


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## dbarabians

I own a 1/4 QH 1/4 Peruvian 1nd 1/2 arab cremello gelding.
His mother was 1/2 ARab 1/2 Peruvian palomino his sire was 1/2 Arab 1/2 QH. Funny he looks like a nice foundation QH with a refined head.
He was bred by someone else then given to me after the divorce. Shalom


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## EvilHorseOfDoom

I wouldn't call it the worst but the most bizarre cross I ever knew was an Australian Stock Horse x TB x Shire. Luckily for the horse, it had the head and brains of an ASH, neck and body of a TB, and slightly sturdier legs, good hooves and temperament from the Shire. Had slight feathering and a bit of fluff under the neck but nothing dramatic. Could have gone wrong though...


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## EmilyJoy

Oh wow! What if it had the build of a shire with the tb legs neck head?  you'd have another quarter horse halter-bred horse on your hands!


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## EvilHorseOfDoom

EmilyJoy said:


> Oh wow! What if it had the build of a shire with the tb legs neck head?  you'd have another quarter horse halter-bred horse on your hands!


Or...the head and body of a Shire, and temperament and feet of a TB! Stock horses are too awesome, they couldn't contribute anything awful 

ETA: Actually, the tail of an ASH - they're pretty miserly in the tailhair department.


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## Sherian

I had a neighbour who was very proud to tell me that their Belgian mare was in foal to a mustang stallion. Considering this was Ontario I'm not sure about the stud being a mustang - they're not exactly common in that area, and "purebred" drafts with no papers are common so who knows what the mare really was. I never did see the result as the entire household was arrested for polygamy and child abuse shortly after.


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## verona1016

I went to test ride a Fjord x Morgan once. (I lovingly refer to this mix as a Fjorgan). He was short (14hh) but I was hoping he'd have the Fjord stockiness with a little more 'forward' from the Morgan side, but sadly he ended up being narrow and lightly built. He wasn't small enough that I was too heavy for him, but he was small enough that I thought I looked funny on him  I think he ended up making a very nice child's mount in the end.


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## Super Nova

I've got a girl friend breeding Georgian Grandes.......mare is the Saddlebred, sire is the Friesian .....and she has put out some nice crosses......my favorites are the last two she bred in 2011....one was a filly and the other was a colt.

I don't think its a bad cross if done with care.

Here is her website..... Grande Isle Farm

I don't like percheron crosses.

Super Nova


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## 2SCHorses

Well, I have an Arab/Welsh cross. She's good for endurance, but forget about it with something else ... she is hot headed AND stubborn. We have her on a strong Magnesium supplement for both her metabolism AND 'freaky factor'. She doesn't look bad, but sometimes you have to think more of the 'attitude' than just the conformity of the animal. My kids cannot ride her, and she has hundreds and hundreds of miles on her. If she can get away with it, she will; and if she can eat it, she will. And forget about the WHOA.

Worst cross I have ever seen was a Haflinger/TB cross. I suppose that cross could be fine, but this one was not. Everything that could go wrong did. I wish I had a picture because even my husband, who is not a horse person, asked "What is wrong with that horse?". You know it's bad when someone that is blissfully horse ignorant even sees something is amiss.


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## GhostwindAppaloosa

Morgan x Fresian. Fugly babies.


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## Norma M Sutton

lol sounds like a dog I ran into at the river once. Coming towards me his head was a Saint Bernard as he passed the body was a Irish Setter lol He looked like he was going to tip over onto his nose at any minute. Also saw a add for a Chihuahua crossed with a Saint Barnard . . . almost went to see that one just from the pure curiosity of it, but was too afraid I'd end up coming home with one lol. As to the oddest horse cross . . . Prettiest was a Fresian x Saddlebred. Flashy was a understatement, ugliest was probably a Clydesdale crossed with I'm not sure what. Had a huge head and a knobby body. Just really awkward looking just standing. 



Saddlebag said:


> A friend had a Percheron/Arabian. He was Percheron huge with an itty bittty Arab head.


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## Norma M Sutton

What got me is that the offspring will either be a horse or a donkey, depending on which genetic makeup they inherit and what the mother/father is.




AnrewPL said:


> No, no, thank you. I always thought mules were flat out sterile; I did some digging however before I went shooting my mouth off and found that, though it is rare some of them can indeed have viable offspring. Apparently it’s not so much about different chromosomes making them sterile, but just how the genes and chromosomes match up in the individual that decides whether or onto they can reproduce. So basically I learned something new. Thanks.


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## MangoRoX87

I had a gaited Pony once...

My guesses was she was part mustang, part morgan, part TWH, part shetland, part belgian, part quarter horse, part...


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## QHDragon

TristaJean said:


> Belgian x Arabian
> 
> I love both of the breeds, but they did just not combine well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have seen a couple of this cross that have turned out well. However breeding drafts to any other light breed can be a total crap shoot. Sometimes they come out lovely and others not so much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## QHDragon

GhostwindAppaloosa said:


> Morgan x Fresian. Fugly babies.


Morgan's actually seem to cross very well with friesians. Same with saddlebreds. I think they share a lot of the same type which makes them work well. I use to ride at a place that had two pure black Morgan's. both were frequently mistaken for friesians.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PunksTank

Why would _anyone_ bother breeding a Morgan to a Friesian when Canadian horses exist?!

Honestly look at this:


















My Canadian:











They're essentially draft morgans xD They're the greatest breed ever! (they're actually the ancestors of the morgan and saddlebred style horses)


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## ParaIndy

Would they make good endurance type horses, or are they to heavy set? My big dad is looking for a horse to ride in endurance rides with me. He loves my Morgan, but he wants one that is a bit bigger. He is 6'3'' and 260 lbs. Would this be a good breed for him, PunksTank?


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## PunksTank

I think they'd be more than perfect! Look up the breed, they are the easiest keepers and the hardiest horses. They're called "little Iron Horses"averaging around 15-16 hands, but built and ready for action/work.
Here's a good site about them
Breeds of Livestock - Canadian Horse


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## EvilHorseOfDoom

Punks, I am totally in love with the Canadian horse since I first saw photos of yours. I doubt there are many out here in Australia but I'd love one in the future! Along with my dream Andalusian, TB and Arab of course ;-)


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## barrelbeginner

MangoRoX87 said:


> I had a gaited Pony once...
> 
> My guesses was she was part mustang, part morgan, part TWH, part shetland, part belgian, part quarter horse, part...




holy butt high0_o pretty though!


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## brookebum

My friend had a minix shetland that accidently got in with a 16hh tb stallion and had a foal to it! dont ask how! haha. 
I think the foal matured around 13hh.


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## gigem88

I saw a Welch cob and TB cross this weekend, looked like a pig on stilts! The owners seemed to like her, so happy for them.


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## Nokotaheaven

We once had a horse who was supposedly about 3/4 Kiger mustang and 1/4 Arab.. And I know of a lady who's crossed kigers with arabs


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## Nokotaheaven

Also I just found some Nokota/pony crosses


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## BackwoodsBaby

a welsh/arabian/quarter horse. she is 13.2 hh and very spunky and a fast little mare at that. i wouldnt say she is the worst but strange. dam is welsh pony and sire is arabian/quarter horse.


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## BornToRun

Friesian X Standardbred ... and I own him


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## rbarlo32

Mules are always sterile because a Donkey and a Horse are two different species therefore they are geneticaly incaperble of producing fertile doffspring, Mules can have foals but they are produced using embro transfer, they have been found to be fantastic mothers.

The worst cross I have seen is on the internet I think it was dartmoor shetland cross with the legs of a shetland and everything else was dartmoor size so much so aperently alot of people reported it to the rspca as they thought it was stuck in a bog.


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## rbarlo32

She is a thought to be a new forest shetland cross.


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## Tessa7707

rbarlo32 said:


> She is a thought to be a new forest shetland cross.


What? I don't even understand this. :rofl:


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## peppersgirl

I know people who crossed a friesan with a cowbred paint stud. havent seen the baby yet, but i cant help but thin wth are you people thinking?

May it be an ok cross???


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## xxxxxxxxSocalgirl

I don't know about "worst" but I've seen a lot more Anglo-arab/x Paints lately... They want the paint coloring with the dish head of the Arabian and the height of a TB. Generally these horses change hands a lot due to the fact paint lovers also love their temperament which these horses do not have.With this cross I have seen nothing but hot, and "too much horse" for even experienced riders. 

And before anyone attacks me for saying that I volunteer at a rescue and we got in about 25 of of these in just the past year. They are also harder to adopt out. Many interested, but during the trial period they are almost ALWAYS returned.


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## Cruiser

The two worst I've ever seen was a Clydesdale Mule, poor thing only looked nice from far away, his head was 1 1/2 times longer than his neck at least. He had almost no neck, and no back, and no hind quarters, so he was shoulders and head, with a tail on one end. 

The second was Percheron crossed with a ASB (I think) the poor things back dropped when he was only 4 years old. Takes beginners for rides all the time, but as soon as the saddle comes off, you notice that there is something like a 10 to 12 dip in the middle. Funny enough his has lots of action in the front, and sticks his tail out when he walks "fast". But is very laid back, he was named Gunther.


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## Joidigm

I met a Percheron x Mamouth Jack cross mule. He was actually kind of cute, a bright white buggy mule in New Orleans with a good bit of size to him. He didnt look weird so I didnt think it a weird cross considering his profession.


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## BlueSpark

I've seen some amazing percheron crosses. Also my first horse was a welsh/thoroughbred, and she was the best of both breeds. 

worst cross hands down was a curly x thoroughbred. mare was tb, tall and elegant, sire was a short stocky curly. Filly had the refined head and neck, and thin legs, with the curly coat, thick body and height. Freakish looking.


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## TheLastUnicorn

I don't know that the Standardbred should never be outcrossed... The breed did help create the Saddlebred, which make terrific riding and driving horses. 

I honestly think the breed has less to do with the outcome of a cross than the actual balance of the parents. Balance to weaknesses in either parent with strengths in the other and having the ultimate goal of creating an offspring which is, overall, better than either parent. Often crosses aren't well thought out... There is little consideration of the result if the foal inherits the "wrong" set of traits. 

For example, I have seen some dreadful Friesian crosses, and some very nice ones. Most of the good ones aren't to my personal taste, but they are not conformationally deformed in any way. The ones that don't turn out so well can have a combination of faults which make them look a bit like frankenhorses. 

I have also seen some truly hideous examples of purebreds of all breeds... And naturally some very nice ones. 

The difference is in why the parents were paired together - if it is done at random, then the odds are in favor of a fugly foal, regardless of pedigree... If it is done after weighing the conformation of both parents and with a clear goal in mind the odds are in favor of getting a nice foal (and nice being determined by the purpose the foal is destined for) .


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## KountryPrincess

The strangest cross I ever met was 1/2 TWH & 1/2 Clydesdale. That was the funniest horse I ever saw. He had a rather devious personality and his name was Mugsy. I wish I had a pic of him. He was kind of a round horse, slight roman nose, and a veeery strange gait. Kind of rolling, and occasionally I would see him pace. He was actually kind of adorable.


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## LadyDreamer

I think Arabians. Created from mist and dust? Psh! Come on. No wonder they are are so flighty! A slight breeze and they are GONE.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PurpleMonkeyWrench

BackwoodsBaby said:


> a welsh/arabian/quarter horse. she is 13.2 hh and very spunky and a fast little mare at that. i wouldnt say she is the worst but strange. dam is welsh pony and sire is arabian/quarter horse.
> View attachment 115323


I think she is ADORABLE!!!


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## Fulford15

Clydesdale x Morgan... My friend has her, shes very cute, but her confirmation has caused a lot of physical problems :-(


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## Eolith

I have always thought that Arabian Draft crosses didn't make the slightest bit of sense. It's taking two almost polar opposites and combining them into something which I personally think often looks very very awkward.


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## BlueSpark

One of the most gorgeous horses I ever worked with was an "oops" between an Arab mare and a Percheron stallion. Foal got the best of both worlds, gorgeous mover, forward and athletic like an Arab, quiet with lots of bone like a Percheron. Dapple grey with a silver mane and tail.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dbarabians

All modern light horse breeds carry the blood of the arabian. IMO they are the only breed that is known to successfully cross on most others.
They are also the purest breed and a different subtype wth less vertabraes, tail bones aned ribs than other breeds. Some mustangs aslo have this trait. Especally thse of almost pure spainich blood. Infact if you ask me I think the only 2 crosses acceptable for a mustang are the Arab and maybe the Andulusaion. 
I did see an Andulsion Kiger cross. Looked like an Andulsion dun. I did breed my Arab stallion ot a mustang mare this year. They are hoping for an endurance prospect. Shalom


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## ParaIndy

LadyDreamer said:


> I think Arabians. Created from mist and dust? Psh! Come on. No wonder they are are so flighty! A slight breeze and they are GONE.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's just a legend. And not all Arabs are flightly, if they are trained right. My Arab doesn't mind wind at all:wink:.


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## LadyDreamer

Haha, mine was a joke.  I had to find some way to compare the mist and dust to the horse. They are not my cup of tea, which is why I prefer the incredibly diluted version. Thanks to them, we have TBs. Thanks to TBs we have my beloved ASBs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Joidigm

Andalusian x kiger, lusitano x kiger, andalusian x arabian, lusitano x arabian, quarter horse x kiger, these are becomming increasingly more common and have their own registries (like the hispano arabe). And usually they work, because they all source from original Iberian blood (except the qh). Most mustangs are not iberian, and are qh and paint based blood lines. They cross well sometimes with arabian based breeds because qh's have arabian throw back but that is about it.

Fresians are not Iberian based, and way to square, which is why it bugs the crap out of me when people call Fresians "baroque". Arabians are baroque, Andalusians, Lusitanos, Iberians are baroque. Percherons are baroque. Fresians are just furry cart horses are rarely cross well outside.

Also, even if many modern breeds can claim throwback to Arabian blood, which was used to refine many breeds, it is so far back in most breeds that it doesn't always cross back very well. Thoroughbreds and Quarter Horses have a ton of Arabian refining in them, which is usually why between the three they cross well. Heck, QHs can still claim AQHA registration pure bred even if they are Thoroughbred two generations back. They are very close yet genetically. Same goes for NSHs. Saddlebred (Thorougbred), Arabian, and often QH paint. Would probably cross incredibly well with a baroque horse.


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## Nokotaheaven

rbarlo32 said:


> She is a thought to be a new forest shetland cross.


WHAT the?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??? xD


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## Nokotaheaven

Kiger x Lustiano baby. He is ADORABLE though!


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## rbarlo32

Nokotaheaven said:


> WHAT the?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??? xD


 Just a tad long in the back :wink:


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## Joidigm

Check out rancho bayo kigers. They cross lusitano and kigers as well as quarter horse and kigers. Im not a huge fan of them but it is interesting to follow their blog on their foals.


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## BackwoodsBaby

PurpleMonkeyWrench said:


> I think she is ADORABLE!!!


thanks, a group i ride with always said, that little thing aint going to get anyway where with those legs, she showed them her rear end and dust the whole ride by being in front(; i wish i still had her, i wish i didnt have to out grow her.


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## FrostedLilly

I once knew someone who crossed a Percheron with a Morgan. The horse was so smooth to ride it felt like you were gliding and had a great personality, but his looks were quite unfortunate.


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## FrostedLilly

BackwoodsBaby said:


> a welsh/arabian/quarter horse. she is 13.2 hh and very spunky and a fast little mare at that. i wouldnt say she is the worst but strange. dam is welsh pony and sire is arabian/quarter horse.
> View attachment 115323


We once boarded a horse who was the exact same mix, except the sire was a QH and the Dam was an Arab/Welsh cross. Her name was Tia and she was absolutely adorable and actually quite pretty. Jet black with very fine Arab/welsh features. I wish we still had her.


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## horsietori

LadyDreamer said:


> I think Arabians. Created from mist and dust? Psh! Come on. No wonder they are are so flighty! A slight breeze and they are GONE.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


THAT just made me laugh so hard!!! I've been saying that about Arabs for years!!!! No offense to the Arabian owners on here...


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## horsietori

Personally I think two of the worst crosses is a TWH x Gypsy Vanner and a Paso Fino x QH... The Paso/QH cross had horrible conformation but good disposition. The horse had no idea how to gait or trot... AQHA Girl can attest to that because she knew the horse. The Walker/Vanner is a stud who should have been gelding asap... Worst conformation I have ever seen-which is saying a lot. I just don't see how someone could cross a lanky gaited horse with something beefy and coarse and drafty... Gaited horses and draft type horses/ponies do NOT EVER MIX..... EVER!!!!! They turn out deformedish looking and IMO are only usable for trail riding and possibly driving depending on the build...


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## TheAQHAGirl

horsietori said:


> Personally I think two of the worst crosses is a TWH x Gypsy Vanner and a Paso Fino x QH... The Paso/QH cross had horrible conformation but good disposition. The horse had no idea how to gait or trot... AQHA Girl can attest to that because she knew the horse. The Walker/Vanner is a stud who should have been gelding asap... Worst conformation I have ever seen-which is saying a lot. I just don't see how someone could cross a lanky gaited horse with something beefy and coarse and drafty... Gaited horses and draft type horses/ponies do NOT EVER MIX..... EVER!!!!! They turn out deformedish looking and IMO are only usable for trail riding and possibly driving depending on the build...


Mel!! I miss her, I wonder hows shes doing...

Anything gaited mixed with a non gaited is bound to not go well when the baby comes out.....


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## Country Woman

when I was working at an equestrian I saw a weird combo 
a Thoroughbred/ Saddlebred X Clydesdale those breeds are fine on their own 
but that cross was sure weird


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## horsietori

TheAQHAGirl said:


> Mel!! I miss her, I wonder hows shes doing...
> 
> Anything gaited mixed with a non gaited is bound to not go well when the baby comes out.....


ANYWHERE is better then that "place" where we were... She had bad conformation.


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## Faceman

horsietori said:


> They turn out deformedish looking and IMO are only usable for trail riding and possibly driving depending on the build...


I really wish you wouldn't use that expression. There are horses that can walk down a trail - and then there are trail horses - and then there are good trail horses...just as there are horses that can jog around a track, then there are racehorses, then there are good race horses. Proper conformation, temperament, and training, are just as important in making a good trail horse as in any other discipline...IMO moreso...


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## Silent one

Wow, why is everyone so down on Friesian crosses?  Here is mine, he is absolutely the best horse I have ever known or had, and I've owned and rode horses for over 50 years. The only other horse I've ever had that came close to him was my Arabian/Lippizzan cross.......


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## horsea

Nokotaheaven said:


> WHAT the?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??? xD


Lol she is pretty cute, reminds me of a Dachshund


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## horsietori

Silent one said:


> Wow, why is everyone so down on Friesian crosses? Here is mine, he is absolutely the best horse I have ever known or had, and I've owned and rode horses for over 50 years. The only other horse I've ever had that came close to him was my Arabian/Lippizzan cross.......


What is his other breed in him? He's beautiful!!! It just depends on what other breed a Friesian is mixed with I think. Personally I LOVE Appy and Friesian crosses, as long as they have loud coloring. Most people mix opposite breeds together and get something weird. Like a Paso Fino and Quarter Horse. They can turn out great (my friend has one right now who is pretty) and I've also met one that had horrible conformation and didn't know how to trot or gait. I'm all for refining bigger boned horses down such as mixing Thoroghbred and Percheron to create something that is pretty good at dressage(not always). My PMU mare is Thoroughbred, Percheron, and Quarter Horse. Great for dressage and also sturdy for trail and whatever else I throw at her (I've even placed 2nd twice in reining with her). One great mix is a Gypsy Vanner and Haflinger-but again, they are both draft type horses. Breeding opposites is a risky business. Sometimes you get good ones, other times you get weird ones.


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## Nokotaheaven

horsea said:


> Lol she is pretty cute, reminds me of a Dachshund


Lol xD


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## Silent one

horsietori said:


> What is his other breed in him? He's beautiful!!! It just depends on what other breed a Friesian is mixed with I think. Personally I LOVE Appy and Friesian crosses, as long as they have loud coloring. Most people mix opposite breeds together and get something weird. Like a Paso Fino and Quarter Horse. They can turn out great (my friend has one right now who is pretty) and I've also met one that had horrible conformation and didn't know how to trot or gait. I'm all for refining bigger boned horses down such as mixing Thoroghbred and Percheron to create something that is pretty good at dressage(not always). My PMU mare is Thoroughbred, Percheron, and Quarter Horse. Great for dressage and also sturdy for trail and whatever else I throw at her (I've even placed 2nd twice in reining with her). One great mix is a Gypsy Vanner and Haflinger-but again, they are both draft type horses. Breeding opposites is a risky business. Sometimes you get good ones, other times you get weird ones.


Thanks! I think he's awesome but of course, I'm prejudiced in his favor. He was born and raised here. His mother was a National Show Horse, she was 3/4 Saddlebred and 1/4 Arabian. Her dad was RA Hot Every Nite and she was a pretty nice mare. And his dad was a Friesian, had a high rating at his Keuring. Dragon was actually from an accidental breeding between the two, but both horses were great examples of their breeds. Perhaps you just have to start with good quality stock?

Here's his pedigree http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/distant+winds+dragon


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## DraftyAiresMum

I agree with whoever said that it isn't necessarily the breeds crossed, it's the individuals. My percheron/paint has great conformation and an amazing temperament. His half-sister is the complete opposite, but from the same sire.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Endiku

Are you sure that the grey 'weenie-horse' isn't just a dwarf? She looks almost EXACTLY like our severely dwarfed miniature horse gelding, Little Feather. I took a double take when I saw her. Only difference in their build is that he's cow hocked to the point that he had to have surgery as a foal to be able to walk, and he's cremello, not grey.


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## xlntperuvian

dbarabians said:


> All modern light horse breeds carry the blood of the arabian.


That is not correct. Peruvians have no Arab blood in them.


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## dbarabians

Peruvians, andulusions, and even mustangs are directly related to the Barb and the Arabian that was brought into Spain after the Muslims conquered Spain and ruled it for several hundred years.
So yes Peruvians as well as paso finos DO have arab blood in their ancestory. That is a historical fact. The Spainish even brought arabs over in ships to the new world. Shalom


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## Oldhorselady

horsietori said:


> Personally I think two of the worst crosses is a TWH x Gypsy Vanner and a Paso Fino x QH... The Paso/QH cross had horrible conformation but good disposition. The horse had no idea how to gait or trot... AQHA Girl can attest to that because she knew the horse. The Walker/Vanner is a stud who should have been gelding asap... Worst conformation I have ever seen-which is saying a lot. I just don't see how someone could cross a lanky gaited horse with something beefy and coarse and drafty... Gaited horses and draft type horses/ponies do NOT EVER MIX..... EVER!!!!! They turn out deformedish looking and IMO are only usable for trail riding and possibly driving depending on the build...


I own one of these draft cross something or others....and I am not offended by these descriptions. While she is only something a mother could probably love to some, you can't beat her personality, disposition and is the perfect beefy size for me. To start her under saddle consisted of putting the saddle on, getting on her back and ride off without the dramatics. HOWEVER, I have been going through the mystery of her hind end since I got her and it seems she can't figure out what she is or what to do with her legs....crossing between trotting and possibly wanting to gait etc. So, yes, she is a mess....but all I want is a trail horse and a horse to tolerate what I throw her way and that she is. I wouldn't trade her for any other horse. BUT, people, PLEASE stop backyard breeding some of these rediculous crosses that may not be as lucky to find homes due to their limitations!:evil:


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## TheAQHAGirl

Oldhorselady said:


> *BUT, people, PLEASE stop backyard breeding some of these rediculous crosses that may not be as lucky to find homes due to their limitations*:evil:!


Don't want to get way too off topic...But the reason why slaughter exist is because of back-yard breeders. That and a good chunk of the Racing Industry's over breeding of horses and injured horses...Such Shame. :-(


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## xlntperuvian

*Sorry, wrong again*



dbarabians said:


> Peruvians, andulusions, and even mustangs are directly related to the Barb and the Arabian that was brought into Spain after the Muslims conquered Spain and ruled it for several hundred years.
> So yes Peruvians as well as paso finos DO have arab blood in their ancestory. That is a historical fact. The Spainish even brought arabs over in ships to the new world. Shalom


Again, Peruvians do NOT have Arab blood. Doesn't matter if the Spanish brought other breeds including Arabs, over in subsequent shipments. Peruvians are descended from BARBS. The Barb Horse is *not* an Arab. 

_"It is well documented that the Spanish Conquistadors brought with them both Hacks (amblers) and Chargers (trotters) of the same breed to the New World, as recorded in the Archives of the Indios, *the Spanish Horse was (and still is) a breed consisting of Galician/Asturian (Celtic) horses of the North, Sorraia horses, and Barb horses from Morocco*."_

I suggest you read this article, "The History of the Peruvian Horse" which was written by Adele von Rüst McCormick, PhD. The Drs. McCormick did extensive research in Spain regarding the History of the Peruvian Horse: 
Hacienda Tres Aquilas, LTD ~ Paso History

FYI - there is no Arab blood in the Icelandic Horse either.


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## countercanter

This one was definitely a strange cross...a TWH/Mustang cross. She was ranked in the top 10 jumper ponies in the US. Definitely an awesome little mare.


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## dbarabians

I am fully aware that Icelandics do not carry arab blood but ALL horse of SPAINISH type do. That is a historical FACT.
The muslims conqured an area larger than the Roman Empire within 100 years of Mohammed founding Islam.
They conqured north Africa and introduced the arab into the local horse populations wherever they ruled including Spain. The Barb carries Arab blood as well as fewer ribs vertabraes and other ARAB traits. The Andulusian carries Arab AND Barb blood.
Now if you refuse to acknowledge historical facts then that is your perogative. Shalom


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## dbarabians

*allow me to apologize*

Sorry for the stong tone of my above post . Just because I do not agree gives me no right to be a rude arrogant know it all.
Thanks for the link provided and I will read it later.
Again allow me to apologize. Shalom


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## Joidigm

dbarabians said:


> Peruvians, andulusions, and even mustangs are directly related to the Barb and the Arabian that was brought into Spain after the Muslims conquered Spain and ruled it for several hundred years.
> So yes Peruvians as well as paso finos DO have arab blood in their ancestory. That is a historical fact. The Spainish even brought arabs over in ships to the new world. Shalom



The Spanish imported Iberians; Barbs, Jennets, Andalusians, and some Portugese Sorraia and maybe Lusitano. Not necessarily Arabians (Arabians are NOT Iberian). Paso Fino and Peruvian Paso's, no relation between the two, but both developed from Barb, Andalusian, and Jennets. Jennets are Barb based and gaited.

When you say mustang, you need to be very specific. There are very few isolated strains that reach back to Iberian blood (the Riddle Kigers, the Steens Kigers, and the Currituck Wild Horses in NC). Most "mustangs" are feral domestic horse blood from ranch stock that are so bred down with modern released breeds that they cannot trace back the Iberian blood.

Arabians were very isolated to their people because they were so prized. Marwari, Barb, Akhal-Teke, Caspians are similar breeds that were around the same time in different areas that served the same purpose as war horses and developed other breeds.




Just sayin'.


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## old97fan

xlntperuvian, dbarabians, I think you both are correct. "peruvian is correct that the south americans that created the peruvian breed used no arabians in their foundation or subsequent stock. However, arabian is correct that all of the progenitor breeds used including the barb have arabian in their lines. Ironicly, I own both a peruvian and a kiger mustang. Both of which get a lot of their influence from the barb and spanish horses.


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## OneFastHorse

Any cross can be good and any cross can be horrible. It's all in the individual pairing of the two animals. Choose animals that complement each other. Don't just throw two horses together in a thoughtless breeding.


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## Joidigm

old97fan said:


> xlntperuvian, dbarabians, I think you both are correct. "peruvian is correct that the south americans that created the peruvian breed used no arabians in their foundation or subsequent stock. However, arabian is correct that all of the progenitor breeds used including the barb have arabian in their lines. Ironicly, I own both a peruvian and a kiger mustang. Both of which get a lot of their influence from the barb and spanish horses.


Back when Arabians, Barbs, Akhal-Teke's first existed, no one can be sure which came first. There was no breed then. There was regional type. And they may have all come from one totally different breed like something akin to the Tarpan or Przewalski. We don't know.

Andalusians were created from Sorraia and Barb, but not Arabian. I don't believe genetic markers ever traced Andalusian back to Arabian bloodlines like they did the Barb and Sorraia, and Andalusian blood lines are **** well near perfectly recorded. Sorraia is like the Tarpan and Przewalski, older than Arabian. Sorraia was the "type" that influenced Southern Europe.

You can't just say that Arabian was the end all be all, because the breed that exists today was unknown that far back in civilization. They can genetically test for certain markers that exist in todays breeds that were thought to be other breeds. That is why we know Kigers are "true" mustangs, they have the markers from Sorraias and other Iberian based breeds that were imported by Spain and Portugal. And you can't say the Sorraia was influenced by the Arabian, or that the Arabian influenced the Iberian breeds. The Barb is not considered to have been influenced by the Arabian. I believe they probably grew up along side each other, maybe came from another base type.

Same thing with the Akhal-Teke. It's the chicken and the egg question, which came first. It is known that Akhal-Tekes were well hidden by their tribes, and so were Arabians. Why would they have influenced each other in completely different geographical areas when they were hidden? Developed from a base type, probably. Influenced each other? Probably not.


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## dbarabians

While the arabs built their empire they did so on the back of the arabian horse. They did indeed protect the mares thinking that once bred to an impure stallion the mare would become impure.
They gave the horses as gifts and distributed them throughout their empire. They used their stallion to breed to local mares to improve the horses. This brought the arab into Europe.
The Barb and the Arab are very similair and probably developed from the same subtype of horse.
only those horses that are considered primitive or were isolated do not carry arab blood.
This is acknowledged by all authors of books about the different breeds.
Andulusians are known to have been infused with arab and barb bllod. the Lusistiano though has had very little added.
In Spain I have seen some nice arab heads on some Andulusians and while living in Israel and visiting Egypt, Jordan and Turkey did not see many horses with extreme dished heads.
Whatever we beleive as individuals does it really matter as long as we acknowledge theat each breed worthy?
I have ridden Peruvians and Paso Fino, they got that "heat" from somewhere fun to ride but I did not like the gaits. Shalom


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## old97fan

respectfully, Joi if you are going to make final statements like "Andalusians were created from Sorraia and Barb, but not Arabian" then you should study a little more factual history. The purest bloodline of the Andalusian is considered to be the Carthusian bloodline. The Carthusian monks protected their particular strain of Andalusion with the fervor of religious zealotry. They have well documented their infusions of Arabian blood as well as Neapolitan blood. This particular bloodline also shows the most similar physical traits to the Arabian. Most of the other bloodlines also show at least some infusion of Arabian. Also something that can't be ignored is that during the time of the Moorish occupation of Spain, while the Moors tried to protect their arabian bloodlines with the threat of capital punishment. Their genetic input was highly sought by the Spanish and numerous instances of covert cross breeding with the spanish breeds was accomplished INCLUDING in the early andalusian horse.


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## xlntperuvian

*Dr. Deb Bennett*



old97fan said:


> respectfully, Joi if you are going to make final statements like "Andalusians were created from Sorraia and Barb, but not Arabian" then you should study a little more factual history.


Dr. Deb Bennett, Ph.D. included three charts in her book _Conquerors: The Roots of New World Horsemanship_ that illustrate the development of the Spanish Breeds and other breeds in the Americas. There are NO crosses with Arab blood in what she terms the "Old Andalusian", nor are there any Arab crosses with the Spanish Jennets that would become the "Jamaica Horses" or Pasos. 

Dr. Bennett actually shows the Arabian Breed developing as an offshoot of the "Oriental" lineage and the Barb as an offshoot of the Jennet, which itself was developed as a cross between "Draft" and "Orientals". And according to her chart, the Arabian isn't crossed with the Andalusian until well after the Spanish colonization of the Americas. 

Ill try to scan the charts and piece them together into one and then we can discuss. But - I'd like to move this discussion to a separate thread as we seem to be hijacking the original post. Not sure exactly when I'll be able to scan and post as I need to get the software for my printer/scanner installed on my new PC. Now where's that disc?....


----------



## ndistler

I have a mare who is a Tennessee Walking Horse, Missouri Foxtrotter, and a Quarter Horse cross. She is my first horse and she was also untrained, shes been the easiest horse to train.


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## old97fan

sigh, yes you are correct the modern Andalusian is post development of the Peruvian but the Arabian influence in the modern Andalusian is documented. I pointed out the Carthusians because that is the easiest trail for others to find documentation. I respect Dr. Bennett very much, and agree with her on many things. However, her conclusions about the pre Andalusians are suspect at best and outright wrong at the worst. She is big on common sense which is rare for an academic. The area where these horses came from was southern Spain. This is where the Moorish presence was the strongest. It could be, but not likely, that you can have two breeds of horses with similar physical characteristics like the earlier Arabian and the pre Andalusian in the same geographic area. But to believe that it didn't happen when there are these resemblences combined with mention of it from stories of those times is a strong case for living in denial.


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## dbarabians

I too k now of Dr Bennet.
One thing I would like to comment on is the passion and intelligence xlntperuvian exhibits when posting.
Hey I think I have posted here about the crememllo gelding that I own.
He is out of a half arabian half paso and by a half arabian and half QH.
they mistakenly thought they could still register the foal by breeding two registered half arabians. He is a very nice horse. Shalom


----------



## xlntperuvian

dbarabians said:


> I too k now of Dr Bennet.
> One thing I would like to comment on is the passion and intelligence xlntperuvian exhibits when posting.
> Hey I think I have posted here about the crememllo gelding that I own.
> He is out of a half arabian half paso and by a half arabian and half QH.
> they mistakenly thought they could still register the foal by breeding two registered half arabians. He is a very nice horse. Shalom


What? Wait a minute... You mean breeding a half-Arabian to a half-Arabian _doesn't_ make a whole Arabian? :lol: Too darn funny!

Thank you for your kind words dbarabians. I appreciate it very much.


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## FrostedLilly

^^ Lol I think they may have thought that because the foal would still technically be 1/2 Arabian with a 1/4 Paso and 1/4 QH they could still register it as Part-Arab... Unless you were being sarcastic, in which case, ignore this.  It's hard to tell with electronic communication sometimes. 

I think no matter what you breed, there's always that off chance that you'll get something different from both parents, although highly more likely in crosses than purebreds! Sometimes two purebreds can produce something spectacularly ugly or strange looking though. 

My mare is registered Pinto, but is a bit of a mix. She is 1/2 Paint, 7/16 Arab and 1/16 Thoroughbred. Both her sire and dam were pretty sturdy in build and she ended up much lighter boned than both her sire and her dam.

I think I posted about him before, but friends of my parents brought over a gelding they needed exercised and he was a Percheron/Morgan cross. He was quite unfortunate looking with a sparse, spiky main, thick neck and big head, but you couldn't ask for a more willing or dependable horse. And so smooth, I probably could have carried a glass of water without spilling a drop on him.


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## dbarabians

nope I am serious. They truly thought that they would be able to register the foal. They even wanted to use another Stallion as the sire since half arabs are not DNAed/ Thats why he is here. Couldnt get him reistered.
They wanted to breed palomino half arabians. Shalom


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## Inga

I am not a breed snob and I do not believe that papers make the horse but I am not for purposely breeding to create mixes. Anyone who has gone to one of the low budget auctions with the meat buyers should feel the same way. Yes, some papered horses go to auction but the majority of the horses at those places are poorly put together mixes. Someone likely just HAD to have a baby out of their wonderful mare and promised to always keep it forever. Life changes though and then all of a sudden we have a "what do we do with the horses?" moment and off they go. 

At those sales so many of the horses have extremely long backs, short legs, big heads are over or behind at the knees, weak back ends. Sure, you can get that by breeding two very well put together horses but the chances are not as great as when breeding 2 totally different put together horses. 

I have seen a lot of really ugly Friesian mixes. Most of the ones I saw got the worst of both horses and 90% of them had huge ugly heads on short necks with long backs. I love Friesians on their own but don't think they should be mixed randomly.

I don't believe that there is a horse on this planet that doesn't have worth. They can all be sweet nice pets but.. they could be those things if they were well put together as well. I would rather see a horse comfortable and functionally sound for it's entire life. Can't make it 100% but working to breed carefully at least increases the chances.


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## rookie

I agree with Inga. I have out a pasture a horse whose good breeding is a shock when you look at her. She is the result of hall of fame bloodlines and her conformation fell a part. Short backed, steep croup, big head, has bad hocks and a leg injury as a foal leaves her with one good leg. This mare is a pasture pet and truly a soft mare. While not very smart she can go in with the wimpiest of the wimps and get along fine. The greatest tragedy of her life is that currently no one wants to share grain with her (this mare loves to share a bucket with other horses, she will leave a bucket with grain in it to go share a bucket with a friend). She was foaled here and will die here. We committed to that when we got her mother pregnant. We are lucky because we have for 19 years been able to keep that commitment. 

That said, this mare is very well bred but it did not turn out. So great blood lines can throw a curve ball. Why increase those chances by breeding this with that because you want a whatever it is cross? I don't have a problem with people wanting to breed a mare as long as they are committed to doing the right thing. We have an agreement within the family as to what to do if something happens to the family and the horses have to be rehomed. This wonky mare would be euthanized because she is not able to be ridden (not even saddle broke) and realistically in this market no one wants a 19 year old mare that tricky to catch and unsound. This mare has never left the property or been on a trailer. If she went to sale she would end up going to meat buyers and that would be a horrible/terrifying experience for this mare. If you want to be bred be realistic about your horse and be ready to make hard decisions.


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## ButtInTheDirt

Well not really entirely a bad cross (if the horses being bred are a good match), but it is somewhat a pet peeve of mine; when people breed horses with appaloosa coloring to horses with paint coloring. The resulting 'pintaloosa' is enough to drive me mad! Within some breeds it acceptable to have appaloosa colors as well as paint colors, and then some people breed them together. Then you get the funky mosh of tobiano deciding whether or not it wants to have a blanket with spots. They are very cute and unique, but it is just a personal preference of mine as I am a fan of Appaloosas. I have seen people who breed entirely for this psychedelic pintaloosa because they are pretty. .__. So I am a little bit biased.










Here is a pintaloosa-colored mustang. It can happen naturally, so I guess I only hate on them when they are a product breeders who breed only for color - this color.


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## FrostedLilly

rookie said:


> I agree with Inga. I have out a pasture a horse whose good breeding is a shock when you look at her. She is the result of hall of fame bloodlines and her conformation fell a part. Short backed, steep croup, big head, has bad hocks and a leg injury as a foal leaves her with one good leg. This mare is a pasture pet and truly a soft mare. While not very smart she can go in with the wimpiest of the wimps and get along fine. The greatest tragedy of her life is that currently no one wants to share grain with her (this mare loves to share a bucket with other horses, she will leave a bucket with grain in it to go share a bucket with a friend). She was foaled here and will die here. We committed to that when we got her mother pregnant. We are lucky because we have for 19 years been able to keep that commitment.
> 
> That said, this mare is very well bred but it did not turn out. So great blood lines can throw a curve ball. Why increase those chances by breeding this with that because you want a whatever it is cross? I don't have a problem with people wanting to breed a mare as long as they are committed to doing the right thing. We have an agreement within the family as to what to do if something happens to the family and the horses have to be rehomed. This wonky mare would be euthanized because she is not able to be ridden (not even saddle broke) and realistically in this market no one wants a 19 year old mare that tricky to catch and unsound. This mare has never left the property or been on a trailer. If she went to sale she would end up going to meat buyers and that would be a horrible/terrifying experience for this mare. If you want to be bred be realistic about your horse and be ready to make hard decisions.


No argument here either. I was only trying to make the point that sometimes it doesn't have to be a cross to come out funny!  But I do agree with the fact that the risk of something strange looking is a lot higher with mixed breeds. 

Some of the funniest looking crosses I have seen are definitely draft mixed with light horse. ie: the Morgan-Percheron cross I mentioned above.


----------



## Shirekeldeo7

Hmm to me i think all horse breeds are amazing but if i'd say if there is a bad crossbreed it'll probably be a quarter horse and a percheron


----------



## HorseGuru

When anyone breeds a foundation qtr. I can't stand it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tessa7707

HorseGuru said:


> When anyone breeds a foundation qtr. I can't stand it
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Haha, what? why?


----------



## smguidotti

I have one for you (and I was waiting for the day someone would try this) Friesian X RMH. You never know, it might turn out lol The funny thing is, I think it got better genetics from the RMH blood?

Sale Horses - Mitchell Ranch


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## jillybean19

WalnutPixie said:


> There's also a Paint x Fjord yearling for sale down the road from me. She didn't turn out well I'm afraid. She looks kind of like a potato with spots O.O


This thread was worth opening just for this. I seriously LOLed, then my husband asked me what I was laughing at, I read him the quote, and he LOLed as well 

Sounds like she belongs up here in Idaho!


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## MangoRoX87

Wait...what is wrong with Foundation Quarter Horses?....


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## 1322271927queen

A donkey x pony. I think its called a Jenny. My aunt used her for pony rides. Her whinnys would start out sounding like a horse and then end in a hee-haw. People who didn't know she was half donkey used to get freaked out when she would call to the other ponies. The people my aunt bought her from told my aunt that her name was Jenny. She was jet black with the conformation of a donkey but her tail was full like a ponys.


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## kassierae

A donkey x pony would just be a pony mule. A Jenny is a female donkey.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Skunkworks

kassierae said:


> A donkey x pony would just be a pony mule. A Jenny is a female donkey.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Depends on how you got it. A mule is jack x mare, a hinny is a stallion x jenny.


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## SnowCowgirl

Shirekeldeo7 said:


> Hmm to me i think all horse breeds are amazing but if i'd say if there is a bad crossbreed it'll probably be a quarter horse and a percheron



Two of my favorite horses of all time were QH/perch  tough, solid, level headed, well built horses. 

Another amazing cross (knew two of these too) were Canadian/TB. 

I can't think of too many terrible crosses off hand, I haven't known too many to be honest! Maybe the Gypsy/Fjord?


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## Tessa7707

SnowCowgirl said:


> Two of my favorite horses of all time were QH/perch  tough, solid, level headed, well built horses.
> 
> Another amazing cross (knew two of these too) were Canadian/TB.
> 
> I can't think of too many terrible crosses off hand, I haven't known too many to be honest! Maybe the Gypsy/Fjord?


I knew a QH/Belgian that was a fantastically well built, bueatuful horse, amazing at her job, but was not the cuddly type that enjoyed love and attention. She acted like a queen, and seemed to tolerate your existence, but she was good at her job and did it well. 

One of the worst crosses I've seen was a paint/fjord. Little Pali tobiano pony with all the worst traits of both breeds. An enormous, cresty neck that actually collapsed under its weight. Her mane was an enormous, bi colored Afro. Mutton withered and with a face not even a mother could love. Hahaha.


----------



## Peppy Barrel Racing

A friend of the family has a Percheron/QH. She looks like a Percheron on short QH legs lol. But the neighbors stud colt jumped the fence and bred her and he is a Saddlebred/Walker/Paint. But surprisingly the baby named Thunder turned out pretty nice he is a big powerful and athletic 4 year old. He had some awkward moments but not he looks pretty good. So here he is the Percheron/QH/Saddlebred/Walker/Paint lol. Definitely could of turned out worse !


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## jumanji321

Shirekeldeo7 said:


> Hmm to me i think all horse breeds are amazing but if i'd say if there is a bad crossbreed it'll probably be a quarter horse and a percheron


 
I actually know of one. Stocky mare and is a decent fox hunter as well.


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## whiskeynoo

Clydesdale x dales pony. came across this picture today when browsing horse ads, it's the first of this cross ive seen. maybe the photos just bad?


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## GallopingGuitarist

I know this isn't a bad cross but I rode a QH/Percheron/Paint/Saddlebred gelding for a month. He had beautiful gaits! Smooth, and it felt like you were riding a mountain. I actually prefer the Percheron crosses to the Belgian crosses. Nicer gaits, imo.

Sonny










He was probably around 16.2 or 16.3 hands


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## TurkishVan

Personally I'm not a fan of the Friesian crosses. 
I LOVE the Friesian breed, but the crosses just do NOT come out well. Occasionally you'll find one that's okay, or even nice, but it's very rare. 

I really get the impression that some people think, "Oooh! I'll cross my _insert breed of horse here_ mare with a Friesian stallion and get a horse with long pretty hair and feathering!" *BUZZER SOUND* Think again! They usually turn out to be heavy, ugly looking things. Or they look like the mare! 

But there are some people who make educated decisions about Friesian crosses (the majority just gets lucky with the good looking ones, lol!). If you look at the requirements for a FHANA registered Friesian stallion, you'll see that their proving tests are pretty intense. There are only- I believe- about 100 approved stallions in the world. And there's a reason why. Just take a picture of an approved stallion, and compare it to someone else's "un-approved" Friesian stallion. The differences are amazing. But a lot of people don't care, so I guess that's the way it goes.
(And I say "un-approved" because most advertised Friesian stallions are still FHANA registered, but they stay in the "Studbook", unless they're approved for breeding.)

Heck, breeding a registered Friesian mare to an unapproved Friesian stallion is even a no-no! Those offspring can't be registered with FHANA (though I believe they can either be registered in a B-Book, or with KFPS).


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## Endiku

I don't have any pictures of him yet, but we just bought a mare who has a colt that is definitely a heinz 57 xD don't know what his owner was thinking, breeding him!  His pedigree goes something like this on mom's side.

1/2 QH 1/2 Paint Stallion bred to 1/2 ASB 1/2 Arabian (National Show Horse)
\ /
1/4 QH x 1/4 Paint x 1/4 ASB x 1/4 Arabian bred to Thoroughbred Stallion
\ /
1/2 TB 1/8 QH 1/8 Paint 1/8 ASB 1/4 Arabian colt

So he's KINDA an Appendix x NSH cross with some paint thrown in there  very odd. Crazy enough though, he's actually super cute. Refined face, big stout, muscular body, short back, and high white socks/blaze. He's a BIG boy too. Just goes to show you though, that even though on HF we tend to guess that the grades are half and half mixes, most of the time that isn't the case xD can't wait to see how good...or bad...this little guy turns out. He'll definitely be gelded though so HIS little family line is stopped NOW. lol



Then theres my poor mini mule. I'm waiting to see how she turns out but it doesn't look good xD her dam doesn't have very good conformation I'm afraid, so the result is....this.

A miniature wooley mammoth. Hopefully she looks better in her summer coat. LOL. And I swear she sounds like a goat rather than a horse or donkey. Sounds like 'MEEEIIIIIIIGHONKHONKHONK'


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## demonwolfmoon

Shirekeldeo7 said:


> Hmm to me i think all horse breeds are amazing but if i'd say if there is a bad crossbreed it'll probably be a quarter horse and a percheron


HEY! My filly is a QH/Percheron X, and I have to say that though she isn't the most feminine or refined looking horse, she is an absolute doll! She is very smart, gentle with her people and the bottom of the herd. She is careful and respectful, though she can be antsy when she's in heat (but I think that's a mare thing =/).

She's not spooky at all, and she was barn favorite at the barn in PA, and she is also very well liked at her new boarding facility.


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## demonwolfmoon

My Perch/QH X










This is her Dam, the QH:


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## paintedpastures

Know a lady that bred her Andalusian stallion to a minature mare for a mini-Andalusian:lol:


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## draftgrl

I don't know the story, but there is a gypsy cob mare at the local college barn, and I have been informed somehow a mini stud got to her. She should be due to foal within the next two months....

Also, we ended up once with a mustang pony X percheron filly. Was probably the best horse, was the easiest to break, never spooked, and was just beautiful, just think of a percheron proportionally shrunk to about 14h with a very thick mane and tail but not the fuzzy pony kind. Perfect kid sized and yet stocky enough for mom and dad to ride.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## xoxoNohea

I had a Paso Fino/ TB cross mare name Star Flower. She was beautiful little bay, but she was also a hard headed little spitfire. I miss her


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## paintedpastures

paintedpastures said:


> Know a lady that bred her Andalusian stallion to a minature mare for a mini-Andalusian:


Oh & same lady also crossed Andalusian with a curly horse:?.


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## Endiku

a curly x andi?  *shudders*


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## BlueSpark

I knew someone that boarded at my barn for a short time. She used to brag about this green gelding she had(and had never ridden because she was afraid). I asked her what he was and was told he was curly/friesian/foxtrotter.:shock: the way she said it was like he was some pedigreed thoroughbred, but he was just an un registered mutt. Over all he looked decent though, hair from the curly, thick mane and high head from the freisian, whole build lightened up by the fox trotter. Non gaiting.


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## Elizabeth Bowers

Well here is my colt Storm. His mother is supposed to be 1/2 Quarter horse or quarter pony type X Paso Fino, and his sire was a really, sad to say, ugly Paso Fino. I find flaws in his dam, but i know she's not the worst. But you can still see some bad breeding there :shock: When i saw his sire, he had a really heavy head, his legs had no mass to them, he was too fine boned for my taste, too long of a back. He had a nasty temperament, and stood funny. I felt bad for him. He looked kind of like a really bad mix of two very different lines. :shock:

My colt Storm








His dam Ginger


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## jinx1990

paintedpastures said:


> Know a lady that bred her Andalusian stallion to a minature mare for a mini-Andalusian:lol:


Why would anyone do that?!? That poor mare!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FeatheredFeet

I also know of at least two, who are breeding their Gypsies to Minis, in the US. Lots more in the UK are doing that.

There is at least one breeder in the US, crossing Gypsies and Morgans. Lots crossing Gypsies with Haffies. Just as ridiculous, as crossing everything with Friesians, which seems to be the current, 'cross of the day'.

Although one registry allows it, I personally don't agree with crossing Friesians and Gypsies to make Drum Horses. I much prefer to see Gypsies x Shires or Clydes, to make Drums. Friesians and Gypsies are such different types. Then there are all the 'Gypsians'. 

Lizzie


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## rookie

Featheredfeet, why do you prefer the gypsy/shire (or other heavy draft) cross to the gypsy/fresian? Is it just the heft that is in the foal? I am not asking to be offensive and hope I don't come across as such. I honestly don't know enough about gypsy's to have an opinion or to be able to intentionally offensive about the crossing of the breed. Part of me can see the draft cross being a more similar breeding than the fresian but I wondered if there was more to it.


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## PunksTank

Feathered Feet! Oh not here are more terrors like mine out there? xD The conformational mess that is a gypsy/shetland cross?! 
Why are people so silly?!


----------



## PaintedBandit

TurkishVan said:


> Personally I'm not a fan of the Friesian crosses.
> I LOVE the Friesian breed, but the crosses just do NOT come out well. Occasionally you'll find one that's okay, or even nice, but it's very rare.
> 
> I really get the impression that some people think, "Oooh! I'll cross my _insert breed of horse here_ mare with a Friesian stallion and get a horse with long pretty hair and feathering!" *BUZZER SOUND* Think again! They usually turn out to be heavy, ugly looking things. Or they look like the mare!
> 
> But there are some people who make educated decisions about Friesian crosses (the majority just gets lucky with the good looking ones, lol!). If you look at the requirements for a FHANA registered Friesian stallion, you'll see that their proving tests are pretty intense. There are only- I believe- about 100 approved stallions in the world. And there's a reason why. Just take a picture of an approved stallion, and compare it to someone else's "un-approved" Friesian stallion. The differences are amazing. But a lot of people don't care, so I guess that's the way it goes.
> (And I say "un-approved" because most advertised Friesian stallions are still FHANA registered, but they stay in the "Studbook", unless they're approved for breeding.)
> 
> Heck, breeding a registered Friesian mare to an unapproved Friesian stallion is even a no-no! Those offspring can't be registered with FHANA (though I believe they can either be registered in a B-Book, or with KFPS).



Totally agree with this post! Friesian crosses are usually pretty odd looking (to put it politely). I know of ONE Friesian cross I like and it's a Friesian x Perch cross. It's a massive 16.3 (I think) horse who's built like a tank and actually Evented quite well. My friend bought him after his former owner developed bad fibromyalgia and could no longer ride him! I'm sure I've got a picture of him somewhere but he's a nice looking horse with a great personality!


----------



## FeatheredFeet

Well, to produce a Drum Horse, it should be a horse of heavy, draft type and with feather. Using a Friesian, would not likely produce the body type or feather desired. Most do not really consider Friesians, a true feathered breed. Also, most with top quality Friesians, do not breed them to other breeds, Rookie.

Oh yes PunksTank, in the UK for the last several years, it has been the fashion to breed smaller and smaller, 'mini' Gypsies. This by breeding to Shetlands and Minis. And of course, there are many who do such stupid things here too. 

Lizzie


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## TheAQHAGirl

paintedpastures said:


> Know a lady that bred her Andalusian stallion to a minature mare for a mini-Andalusian:lol:


Did the mare live?? Good God I can only see a picture in my mind with a miniature mare dragging a foal thats bigger than her in her tummy!!

I'd actually like to see that.


----------



## paintedpastures

TheAQHAGirl said:


> Did the mare live?? Good God I can only see a picture in my mind with a miniature mare dragging a foal thats bigger than her in her tummy!!
> 
> I'd actually like to see that.


The Mini-Andy:
minimerl

The palomino overo,curly Andalusian is interesting too:lol:


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## TheAQHAGirl

paintedpastures said:


> The Mini-Andy:
> minimerl
> 
> The palomino overo,curly Andalusian is interesting too:lol:


Wow! Was it a tough pregnancy?


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## paintedpastures

TheAQHAGirl said:


> Wow! Was it a tough pregnancy?


I have no idea,i'm guessing not as mare & baby seemed ok.That mini Andi was born several years ago & she herself is now a broodmare.I'm guessing she AI the mare as stud was trained to collect:-|. I met the lady years ago & saw her one stallion {sire of the baby}. She has done some different crosses with her Andi's ,just thought the mini & the curly were well.....different:lol:


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## Spring Harvest Moon

Halflinger/Appaloosa


----------



## appyponyboy82

i saw a pic once of a fjord/arabian cross.....very cute as a baby but it was akward looking adult.


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## Endiku

Why on earth did they cut that poor things mane and tail like that?  and his conformation...ick. Sickle hocked much?


----------



## mysolarflare

There is a non-gated standardbred x quarter horse cross at my barn. She is an absolute brat! She looks OK excepts her head, her nickname is mule and her attitude matches.


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## EliRose

I thought about leasing a TB/Fjord  He was very odd looking, 16.2 but with all of the Fjord characteristics. I decided not to because it was on-farm and really far away.


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## dbarabians

there is a freisan/welsh cross for sale on the dallas craigslist.
Why for the life of me any one would attempt this cross is beyond me. Shalom


----------



## BCtazzie

paintedpastures said:


> The Mini-Andy:
> minimerl
> 
> The palomino overo,curly Andalusian is interesting too:lol:


the same lady that claims to "keep the bred standard"


----------



## VaticanVice

How about this mare? Dam was half Percheron, half Belgian, sire was purebred Paso Fino. I love drafts, I love gaited horses, but this... this is just unfortunate.


----------



## BlooBabe

The worst I've ever seen is an akhal teke dam clydesdale sire. It had the slender long body of the akhal teke and a wicked heavy head with huge feet. I felt so bad for the poor thing. The woman paid a ton of money to get the mare shipped over and then bred her to a poor excuse of a clydesdale. The mare wasn't all that good looking either. Tons of conformation issues all over the board with those ones. I don't think the baby lived all that long only about 10-12 years. Some crosses should never be made.


----------



## Saddlebag

In thinking about this topic my palomino mare was sired by a golden palomino TWH and her mother was a dark dappledquarab palomino. She wasn't gaited and her conformation was surprsingly good and she was as pretty a palomino as one could hope for with her four white stockings and blaze.


----------



## dbarabians

anyone who breeds and Akele teke mare or any other rare breed mare for a cross is completely clueless. That type of mare should only be bred for another purebred foal. Shalom


----------



## lovelyStory

"She didn't turn out well I'm afraid. She looks kind of like a potato with spots O.O"

zomg that is the most awesome sentence I have ever had the pleasure to read!


----------



## Faceman

VaticanVice said:


> How about this mare? Dam was half Percheron, half Belgian, sire was purebred Paso Fino. I love drafts, I love gaited horses, but this... this is just unfortunate.
> View attachment 131781


I honestly haven't seen more than one or two Paso crosses that were well conformed. Personally, I don't think Pasos, although a good sound breed themselves, make for good crosses.

The Akhal Teke/Clydesdale cross is a mystery...the owner must have been drunk when he/she made THAT decision...


----------



## TheAQHAGirl

Faceman said:


> I honestly haven't seen more than one or two Paso crosses that were well conformed. Personally, I don't think Pasos, although a good sound breed themselves, make for good crosses.
> 
> The Akhal Teke/Clydesdale cross is a mystery...the owner must have been drunk when he/she made THAT decision...


Or the stallion could've broke through. Lol.

I would honestly like to see some pictures of these crosses. A TB/Fjord? Sounds interesting.


----------



## Country Woman

the first picture is where my friend kept her horse 
is a Canadian Sport Horse X with a Percheron 

oops my neighbors Dobi puppy


----------



## Country Woman

Here is Ben my lesson horse he is 16:2 Clyde X Quarter Horse He is 23 now


----------



## EliRose

Aha! I found a pic of the TB/Fjord.


----------



## Country Woman

cute horse


----------



## mudpie

Romeo here is apparently a Mustang x Friesian cross... He's not that bad, but I find that combination just... bizarre.

I'm not sure how that happened.


----------



## PunksTank

sorry if I'm wrong, but the past few horses posted up - the Canadian cross is my absolute favorite! The clyde cross, Fjord cross, Mustang cross - those don't look too terrible. While they're unusual mixes and not always likely to come out as nice as those examples, I wouldn't mind having a single one of them in my barn xD
I'm a huge advocate for not breeding animals that won't be likely to earn a home, but draft crosses are a new fad now and definitely have earned their place. The fjord cross, while unusual came out with some nice attributes from both breeds. There are certainly things imperfect about the mixes - but I don't see anything terrible like that poor Clyde/Dales cross xD


----------



## EliRose

Hehe, I was so close to getting that Fjord cross  I don't think he is bad at all, just that it was a very odd mix.

Country Woman, I love Ben! He has such a sweetness about him.


----------



## Country Woman

Ben is a sweet horse 
Too bad I afford the lessons on him at the moment 
Ben is a good mix too me


----------



## Cherrij

At some of these my eyes have been bulging. I agree with everyone that Friesians should not be crossed with anything. They are specific horses, that stay better as themselves.
However, in Latvia, some people decided it would be cool to take the Friesian stallion and breed him with some Latvian mares, I saw the pics of the foals, nothing dramatic, but still, foals look cute, and then comes the fugly years. 
I have seen a fjord arabian cross, dont know the percentages, but he is a very cute fjord, smaller than the other one they got there, darker, and loves to run.

Whenever anyone takes a slim, small elegant breed and mixes it with drafts my head wants to emplode. same goes with mixing large horses with ponies. 
the andalusian mini - really fugly baby and why did they have to do that to its mane and tail? Especially in winter.. wth. 

Most crosses that were shown here look like any crosses would.. average.. and Some sports horses I have seen, look fugly - mainly their necks and heads.. 
and ofc, my favourite cross is Latvian driving horse with a sports stallion -old, HN or HL. Makes a lovely horse


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## DreamOfDrafts

The worst looking cross Ive ridden was a Halter bred Paint (upside down triangle) and Dutch warmblood. She looked like peices of each loosely duct tape together, and rode like it. 
The worst Looking horse, but best Ive ridden was a Standardbred/Belgian/TB x gelding. That boy could jump the moon, and was literally the smoothest ride ever. But omg he looked weird. Big feet, HUGE roman nose head, long neck and a big ole booty, with tree trunk legs. Loved him tho. would have bought him if I could of.


----------



## Lokenzo

I won't be letting Kit (75% Friesian, 25% Thoroughbred) see this thread! I think the right Friesian X can really work but have definitely seen some very average ones due to the 'X Friesian with anything and everything' attitude. In Australia at least they seem to be steering away from that now and some truly beautiful Friesian X's are coming up. My own personal Friesian X has worked brilliant, lovely and short coupled, moves through his whole body, multi Supreme winner and even went Top 5 with over 215 horses of all breeds at a recent breed show here. He is also doing me proud in the official dressage arena too now, he is only 4.

I think any breed or cross done properly with proper horses that compliment either could work but likewise, done badly even with 2 breeds that should cross well or even purbreds can look terrible.


----------



## KountryPrincess

Country Woman said:


> the first picture is where my friend kept her horse
> is a Canadian Sport Horse X with a Percheron
> 
> oops my neighbors Dobi puppy


So just to be clear.....they are not breeding the horse with the puppy. (giggling) :wave:


----------



## KountryPrincess

xoxoNohea said:


> I had a Paso Fino/ TB cross mare name Star Flower. She was beautiful little bay, but she was also a hard headed little spitfire. I miss her


I briefly owned a half Arab, half TWH. I will say she was gorgeous. Black and about 15.3, pretty upright conformation, carried her head high, moderate length back, nice straight legs and good feet.

She was the worst-tempered horse I have ever known. She was ridiculously, but maliciously smart. You had to be one step ahead at all times, and I really feel that the amount of training she had prior to my purchasing her, was less than I had been led to believe. She tortured other horsee the same way she tortured me, constantly testing them and bothering them, even when they set strong and clear boundaries with her, she kept picking and picking at them. Even her herd did not like her.

She had incredible gaits. She was not gaited. It is hard enough to get most purebred gaiteds to gait, forget about the crosses.....but my mare had lovely gaits. Long swinging walk, and she would almost glide down hills. You could see if you watched her from the ground, how she would pick up her feet, for a split second they would float in the air above the ground, and then she would set them down. Her trot was springy and powerful, and she had that glorious rocking chair canter. She was surefooted as anything out on the trail.

I had dreams of doing both trails and learning dressage with her. She was only seven. But she did constant testing of me, as I said, and it really started to put me on edge. Then she realized she had the power to make me nervous, and really put on a show. She would, if being asked to do something she simply did not want to do, squeal to herself (yes, haven't seen anything like it, before or since) and then attempt to rear sky high. Fortunately, I am a pretty good rider, and know how to deal with a rearer, though regardless, it is a terribly dangerous habit. And she gave plenty of warning with those squeals. When she started to go up, I would throw my weight foreward and immediately disengage her backend to knock her of balance. Then I would quickly drive her forward, putting her to work. Sometimes I could catch her *before* the rear and just drive her forward (a horse moving forward cannot rear). But when that started, I knew her days with me were numbered.

She lucked out. She was bought by a small time and very dedicated trainer. At that point I would have sold her to anyone, save a meat auction....but I even considered that......will explain below that thinking. Anyways the woman that bought her attempted to work with her herself, and then put her into training with another, better trainer when she realized the mare was beyond her capeability. I heard through the grapevine later that she had been in serious training for years and finally became safe enough for the woman to find a good match for a home for her. I still dunno how if that worked or not, but they could not have put more money or effort behind that horse.

The reason I just wanted to get rid of this horse was that I absolutely hated her. She was horrible with me, she also tortured my poor elderly mare who was just as sweet as can be. I had a trainer helping me, a good one, and we just kept going downhill. I only had her six months, and never got hurt on her, but that was only due to sheer luck combined with my own riding skill. She made me afraid to ride....for the first time ever, really, and I had been riding continually since the age of 6 and was approaching 30 when this happened. 

I ended up getting out of riding horses completely for three solid years (still kept my old mare at home with me),but I was terrified to get on a horse. I did not think I ever wanted to ride again. I was also worried that *I* had done something to ruin this mare....that her behaviors were all my fault. The woman who bought her assured me this was not true. She said the mare had deep seated issues and major holes in her training from the get go. She did not think there was any way I could have caused that horse's behavior in only six months. I knew she was an excellent horsewoman, and it validated me a bit that she could not even work with the mare, that she had to get help from someone else, and they basically restarted the horse completely. That mare seriously lucked out, because she basically made me an emotional wreck, and I wanted her *gone*. 

I have always told people that there is no shame in getting a horse and deciding it just doesn't work for you and finding it another home, and in this instance, I had to take a bit of my own advice. I had terribly mixed feelings. Even though I could not stand that horse, I was taught growing up that it is *never* the horse's fault, that the fault always lies with the rider. And it was true that I just didn't have the skills to work with her. But, in my defense, she was a tough one. She was lucky to be purchased by someone who liked her quirky behavior and looked upon her as a challenge.

Sorry such a long post. I did not realize I would get so into this. Maybe it should go under another topic, because it does address rider fears, and difficult decisions to be made. However, it also does address what you can get with some of these crosses. Physically, a fantastic horse, but emotionally......a really tough horse to deal with.


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## PrairieChic

See more messed up registered horses than the forementioned "mutt" horse. I like my crosses(sane ones that is,ie no shetland clyde stuff) I have had both reg and crosses. I prefer a good draft/light horse cross. Must be a good thing our law enforcement across NA uses them 
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## MangoRoX87

Im guessing we never figured out the reason for why breeding a foundie QH is a bad thing...?


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## speidel

AnrewPL said:


> No, no, thank you. I always thought mules were flat out sterile; I did some digging however before I went shooting my mouth off and found that, though it is rare some of them can indeed have viable offspring. Apparently it’s not so much about different chromosomes making them sterile, but just how the genes and chromosomes match up in the individual that decides whether or onto they can reproduce. So basically I learned something new. Thanks.


 i am like you but i found out when i left my mule in with a stud (didnt own the sud) and went out to find the little ****** uggly little ****** dad was a grade stud and the bigger had a head like his moms but built like his sir..


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## Peppy Barrel Racing

Roan QH/Percheron she is a chunk!








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## Poseidon

Are you sure she's not entirely Percheron? Roan exists in Percherons


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## Peppy Barrel Racing

Poseidon said:


> Are you sure she's not entirely Percheron? Roan exists in Percherons


Nope she is half Percheron. I the lady that owns her and she bought her from whoever bred her
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## Peppy Barrel Racing

I'm about to go drop a horse of theirs off I'll take a better pic of her
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## Peppy Barrel Racing

Here's better picture of her. Her name is Butch lol. She is a gentle giant and interesting to ride. She is 15.3 HH. She looks like short Percheron lol and has a huge cresty neck.
















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