# Long backs and collection...



## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

Just a random question..

Do horses with long backs tend to have a more difficult time with collection and roundness?


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## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

Yes. It's usually a lot more surface area to try and pick up, when it can be easier for them to move hollow. I had a gelding with a long back, and we had to go above and beyond the call of duty in order to get him rocked back and up through his core. A horse with a shorter back has an easier time because they have less length to pick up and are much more naturally connected through to their hindquarters. That isn't to say a horse with a long back isn't impossible to collect, you often just need to build up the core muscles more and work harder on getting the horse to connect though to the butt and not rely on his forehand.


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## TheRoundPen (Mar 15, 2012)

Totally agree with Oh vair oh.. I also know that my trainer likes having shorter backed horses because they are easier to turn for western events


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Yes, definitely harder to collect and rock back. You don't usually find many long-backed horses in the dressage Olympics or anything, but you can still work your way up into moderate levels of dressage.

My mare is quite long, she needs a lot of work to get her to lift and lengthen her stride in the hind. She still makes a pretty decent dressage mount though!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

Like everyone else said....yes. If you have a horse that is longer through the loin, BUT a lower set hock...that lower set hock will help.


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

Alright... 
That's what I thought, just needed to make sure!
My mare is having a tougher time with roundness, and I'm sure her length is why.


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## Coconut Cruncher (Sep 19, 2012)

her back isn't that long. It seems proportionate in most of the photo's, except the first one posted. If you're sure it's conformational and not behavioural (laziness etc) try getting some more decent photographs of her standing naturally square. Just for a few pictures, it seems she may be sliiiightly sickle hocked. This can all lead to a horse that is finding it difficult to stretch out and ultimately rock back onto it's hind quarters.

The fact that she is also quite downhill in a few photo's, will not help balance either. And she could be purposely restricting her movement from the hind end to counteract not being so front heavy.
If any of that makes sense 

It's all guessing though, as the pictures aren't that great.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

^but she's long in the loin area, and that does make a difference.


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## Horsey and Holistic (Jun 30, 2011)

oh vair oh said:


> Yes. It's usually a lot more surface area to try and pick up, when it can be easier for them to move hollow. I had a gelding with a long back, and we had to go above and beyond the call of duty in order to get him rocked back and up through his core. A horse with a shorter back has an easier time because they have less length to pick up and are much more naturally connected through to their hindquarters. That isn't to say a horse with a long back isn't impossible to collect, you often just need to build up the core muscles more and work harder on getting the horse to connect though to the butt and not rely on his forehand.


Nicely said!


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

My mare isn't too bad with collection, but we've really worked on it


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

I guess my mare seems longer to me because she feels long when you ride her. Well, she just feels BIG. Like an 18 wheeler lol. Can you tell I suck a describing?


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

No. I think I know what you mean.
maybe.. lol
My mare is HUGE strided. If that's what you mean
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

Mine has an alright stride... she was really long as a 2 and 3 year old and kind of grew into herself this year as a 4 year old, so she's kind of big and clumbery, uncoordinated like. 

She'd much rather travel hollowed out than round, that's for sure, and it's just been one heck of a challenge to get her to stay round for any longer amount of time.


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

I can get my girl rounded and stay that way, but it's definitely hard on her part so we only do a round or two. She's gotta build up some muscle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Is Ben going to have problems? how long in the back is he?


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Golden, Ben doesn't look long to me, no where near as long as the OP's horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

Agreed, Ben may be a big guy, but he isn't loooong.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

If anything, he has a long neck. His back and croup seem pretty compact.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

I just had surgery.. but I will add this (w/o having read all the responses). Your horse does not have a long back. What your horse has is a stiff back and an upright and posty hind leg. She is built a bit down hill. It is hard for her to curl her loins to bring her hind legs under her and then flex those hind legs. Can dhse collect? Yes. It will take time and lots of foundation work to get it. 

Will she be a great horse in competition? No. But she will teach you hugely so work her and train her and see where it takes you. I have done this with some fairly unsuitable horses and gotten them to be quite capable of collection. You can do this too.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Let me add this.. 

Lexiie: Your mare is built up hill and will collect emore easily than a down hill horse with a shorter back. She ahs more angle to her hind leg and so that helps. That being said, her neck musculature indicates her neck has not turned over and she is not truly capable of using her entire ring of muscles to collect. She needs more work.. and lots of it.. to build muscle in the root of her neck which will help her to shift her weight rearward. Would love to see recent video of her working in a collected frame. I suspect she may not be doing what you think she is. 

Golden horse: Ben is not long in the back. His peak of croup is a bit far back and his hind legs are over angulated. He is actually a bit up hill with an open shoulder that is also a bit steep. His hind feet are almost clubby.. and this seems to be natural for him as it seems he has not seen a farrier for awhile. Part of that is due to hind leg conformation with stifles a bit too high. 

Ben will learn to collect more easily than the OP's horse or the horse Lexiie has due to his up hill build.. however he looks a bit feisty and you will need to work hard to taech him to streatch his topling and use his abdominal muscles to grin his hind legs under himself and raise the root of his neck. 

He looks a horse that will quickly resort to being over the bit instead of on the bit.. because it will be easier for him. He will need more time with a looser rein in training so he does not take this shortcut which is a habit, once formed, very difficult to over come. 
s


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

I dont plan to show with her anyways, unless you're counting barrels as showing.

And she can use herself well enough to really make good turns, so I couldn't care much less about her needed to stay collected for a long time, it was just a random question..


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Elana said:


> Golden horse: Ben is not long in the back. His peak of croup is a bit far back and his hind legs are over angulated. He is actually a bit up hill with an open shoulder that is also a bit steep. His hind feet are almost clubby.. and this seems to be natural for him as it seems he has not seen a farrier for awhile. Part of that is due to hind leg conformation with stifles a bit too high.
> 
> Ben will learn to collect more easily than the OP's horse or the horse Lexiie has due to his up hill build.. however he looks a bit feisty and you will need to work hard to taech him to streatch his topling and use his abdominal muscles to grin his hind legs under himself and raise the root of his neck.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all that, certainly things to think about as we start to really work him


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