# No jumping at my barn



## HMHawkeye (Nov 27, 2013)

Hi, everyone! I have a question concerning jumping and insurance!
Recently, at the barn where I ride, two people who handle the business side of the farm and actually don't know much about horses convinced the owners to ban any type of jumping on the premises! We have poles and standards, but we're not allowed to ride our horses over anything other than a pole laying flat on the ground! They're first excuse was the horses are too old to jump! The majority of our horses are 20 and over so I understand keeping them from jumping! But we also have two horses aged 8 and 10 who are talented jumpers! The first one (who's name is Biscut!) I was training myself prior to this new rule! I mentioned this to them once and they quickly changed over to some excuse about insurance!
Before I go further, please understand that these people are extremely power hungry! They MUST control everything and it's actually scary because you can get in trouble for nothing if they feel like yelling at someone! Stuff like this has been happening to everyone who goes to that farm for 10 years and it's a real problem! But that issue is being worked out so please focus on my question:
I've been researching it, but I haven't found any information on the subject of jumping insurance! Can someone explain to me in EXTREME detail how such insurance works (if it exists) and if it doesn't exist, I would love to know how jumping coincides with riding insurance or whatever it is!
Just so you all know, we always ride with a licensed instructor so that's clearly not an issue! I would just like to know if this insurance thing is a good and viable excuse to ban jumping!
Thanks, everyone!
Nickers!
HM
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

My thought is that they swam jumping a "high risk" activity, hence they have a higher chance of getting sued.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Their facilities, their rules. If you don't like the ban on jumping, the only option you have is to move barns.

Regardless of how_ you_ feel, if the owners think it's too much of a liability to allow jumping, then that's their right to restrict it. 

Plus, what's with all the (!!!!!) exclamation points?


----------



## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

Speed Racer said:


> Their facilities, their rules. If you don't like the ban on jumping, the only option you have is to move barns.
> 
> Regardless of how_ you_ feel, if the owners think it's too much of a liability to allow jumping, then that's their right to restrict it.
> 
> Plus, what's with all the (!!!!!) exclamation points?


^^ All of this here. I'm jump every month or so, and occasionally pop over a jump on a weekly basis. Not jumping wouldn't really hurt me, but I wouldn't want to be at a place where it wasn't allowed. Trying to convince them that a jump ban is not valid is probably not going anywhere, however, so I'd either get used to the idea or start looking for a new barn.


----------



## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

Horses are accident magnets. Just riding one can be risky. They are probably trying to reduce some risks and their liability. 

Are these their horses? I could see not letting the older ones to reduce risk of injury to the horse. Are the younger ones fully trained or still learning? If they aren't trained for jumping, there is more risk to horse and rider. 

If they are not letting you jump your own horse, that's another story. But if you were to get hurt, understand that it is completely your fault and none theirs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

I'm going to assume you're a minor. If that's the case, nothing you can do will change their mind.

If that's not the case and you're an adult....there's nothing you can do to change their mind.

It's not your barn, not your money and not your risk. They could be eliminating jumping as a means to reduce risk. Without a LOT more information that you won't be able to get, we can only speculate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Given how US law works, they could be afraid of being sued if someone gets hurt. Jumping is statistically significantly more dangerous than not jumping, and a lot of lawyers would salivate at the thought of suing the business for allowing you to take the risk. In many states, you cannot 'assume the risk', even as an adult. If you are a minor...forget it!

A business can be held liable for your doing something even if they banned it, on the theory that they should have expected you to ignore the ban. I honestly do not know how any business stays open with the legal vultures flying around. In any case, it is up to a business and their insurers to decide how much liability they are willing to chance. You may disagree, but they are the ones who risk losing everything they own.


----------



## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Until very recently I boarded at a Hunter/Jumper barn that boasted four A and AA trainers. The horses were all top dollar and the instruction was impeccable.

It was in the rules that we were not allowed to jump without a trainer present. Again, this was at a Hunter/Jumper barn.

As said above: their facilities, their rules.


----------



## HMHawkeye (Nov 27, 2013)

Thanks for the replies everyone! 
I do understand the "their barn, their rules" thing and I 100% agree! However, the owners are being manipulated and I just wanted a better understanding of horse and riding insurance so I could see if there is anything I can do about it! Or rather if their is anything the barn manager can do about it! I'm trying to gather this information for the both of us because she doesn't like the ban either and the way it came about: through two inexperienced horse persons who are only throwing their weight around! 
There's no way I'm leaving this barn!  This is where my heart is and this is where I will continue to volunteer, instruct, and ride! And the new rule may not change, but I'd still like to see what kind of information I can get from you all! 
Thanks to those that reply!
HM
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HMHawkeye (Nov 27, 2013)

usandpets said:


> Horses are accident magnets. Just riding one can be risky. They are probably trying to reduce some risks and their liability.
> 
> Are these their horses? I could see not letting the older ones to reduce risk of injury to the horse. Are the younger ones fully trained or still learning? If they aren't trained for jumping, there is more risk to horse and rider.
> 
> ...



The younger ones are trained up to 2 feet and they ARE still learning! They are all owned by the farm, but not the people who pushed for the jumping ban!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HMHawkeye (Nov 27, 2013)

DancingArabian said:


> I'm going to assume you're a minor. If that's the case, nothing you can do will change their mind.
> 
> If that's not the case and you're an adult....there's nothing you can do to change their mind.
> 
> ...



Thank you, Dancing! Yes, I'm 17! In a week I'll be an adult!  I am working with the barn manager and head instructor on this as I said above she doesn't want a jumping ban on the farm either!
Just looking for as much insurance information as possible!
Thanks!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HorseMom1025 (Jul 17, 2012)

I know one of the shows (AQHA) we go to no longer has jumping events for insurance reasons and because the president considers it too risky. My daughter mostly focuses on English on the flat, so it wasn't a problem for us.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Well if you're adamant about looking, you need to find out who insures them and then check out their website and see what their policies cover. You might have to contact them. However since you're not on the policy you will not get specific information about the farm's coverage. We can only guess but who knows what their plan covers. They might have gotten a discount for not allowing jumping or something.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

X2 above. There's probably way more to this than you're privy to. Unfortunately with the litigious nature of the USA I'm surprised this isn't more widespread as it seems some people will sue at the drop of a hat. 

All the CYA contracts in the world won't help when little Johnny or Suzy fall off, get a boo-boo, and their overzealous helicopter parents immediately call their attorney. It seems that the solution for this barn was apparently to remove the highest risk portion of their business and hope for the best. 

In the end, if sensible talking about the situation doesn't yield a solution that you're happy with, it's time to move on and find another facility. There's been policies at every barn we've ever ridden at that I didn't necessarily like, but they weren't usually up for negotiation - especially when it comes to matters of insurance.


----------



## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

Different insurance companies have different policies. They will also insure for certain things. Their job is to work out the "risk" (ie. likelihood of it happening) then offer insurance "money" if it does.

Some equestrian activities are deemed to be higher risk than others, such as jumping, eventing, barrel racing etc. This means that to cover these things to barn might have to pay a higher cost. Considering that they don't teach jumping then it would be silly for them as a business to pay more for it. I don't think the owners are being manipulated, in all honesty I think it's a smart thing to do. Insurance can be really expensive, if they just have mostly older horses for basic riding there is no need for jumping. 

Banning jumping on school horses isn't uncommon. It is more dangerous and does require different training. If they don't have a professional jump trainer there is no reason their horses should be jumping. It's also harder on the horses. Regardless of the motivations behind their choices you should respect, they're not unreasonable. 

If you want to jump the best thing is to either take lessons at a jumping barn or buy your own horse. If you want to keep your horse at this barn and want to jump and their insurance still doesn't cover you, then consider getting your own.


----------



## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

As a property owner, having to deal with insurance companies, liability etc.. TO have any form of Jumping without a very experienced Trainer is VERY expensive. In fact, having jumping with a trainer is very expensive in itself. This is one reason why jumping barns are so expensive to board . If I allowed jumping and boarded horses, the cost to board would be a minimum of 400 per month per horse . I dont think the barn owners are being manipulated. They are receiving sound financial advice.


----------



## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

OP-sorry-their barn, their horses, their $$=their choice. It is really none of your business who advises them, who insures them, if they are being "manipulated" or not. I think most likely the "business people" are financial advisors or investors or both. Either way-not your concern. Bottom line is that if you or the BM don't like it-leave. Period. Shoot-their are insurance companies who make it nearly impossible for people to have pools with diving boards, trampolines etc. at someone own house. Unfortunately the suit happy people and ambulance chasing lawyers in our society have made it this way.


----------



## HMHawkeye (Nov 27, 2013)

Alright! Thanks everyone! I got my answer (not much I can do about the ban!) so I thank you all for replying! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jbarring (Nov 10, 2013)

If they want too, they can ban it! They probably think it's less likely they will get sued! I don't see why they don't just have people sign a liability thing that basically says "if anything happens it's not our fault"! That's what my barn people do!

Kudos on the exclamation marks! There aren't enough of them in this world!


----------



## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

jbarring said:


> I don't see why they don't just have people sign a liability thing that basically says "if anything happens it's not our fault"! That's what my barn people do!


Sadly, that's not enough anymore in some areas - some overzealous lawyer-happy parent will try to sue anyways if their kid gets hurt. They'll find every reason in the book to claim the liability waiver is invalid, illegal, wrong, unenforceable...whatever. 

All of this might have come as a result of this very situation - perhaps the BO got a legal scare and this was the end result. Again, the OP probably isn't privvy to the exact reasons.


----------

