# For all you friesian cross lovers (or haters...)



## TexasBlaze (Oct 4, 2010)

At least these guys are breeding quality individuals for a purpose. I kinda like em too! Probably would never have one but theyre sure nice to look at!


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## Failbhe (May 8, 2012)

I used to work at a vet clinic as a receptionist. When a new client made an appointment we would put their and their pet's information in the computer, and we did not have a 'labradoodle' or 'goldendoodle' option (only 'lab x' or 'poodle x') and OH DEAR LORD those people got upset. "NO, HE'S A PUREBRED!!!" Well ma'am, was his father a lab? Yes. Was his mother a poodle? Yes. Well then he's a CROSS. 

I realize that all new breeds are a result of crossbreeding, but geez.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

It is often very difficult, to make those who have paid big money for a crossbred with a cutesy name, to come to the understanding, that what they bought was basically, a mutt/grade animal. This of course, because many who breed such crosses, make a registry on their kitchen table and others believe because it is registered, is automatically something special. Goodness, even purebreds for hundreds of years and with legit registries, are not necessarily good examples of their breed.

It often comes down, to the fact that new buyers, often seem to do little or no homework, on the breed or dog/horse, they are considering.

Homework and research and plenty of it, is the key. This before ever jumping in and plonking down one's hard-earned money, on any animal.

Scam breeders make a whole lot of money, from those who do no research.

Lizzie


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

All facts and sense aside, that is ONE gorgeous horse!!


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

It is not purely a Friesian cross though,

*Purpose of the Breed*​ *The purpose of blending of the Saddlebred with the draft or Friesian is to produce offspring that are the perfect blend, having the best of both "worlds", resulting in the heavier boned, "old fashioned" or Baroque saddlebred type; Such is the magnificent Georgian Grande. * 

*Registration requirements:*
*The horse seeking registration must be the Produce of an IGGHR registered Sire and Dam *
*OR*
 *The bloodlines must be a blend of the saddlebred with Friesian, Clydesdale, Shire, Percheron, or Belgian, or Irish Draught; Registered Drum Horses and Gypsy Vanners ("aka" Gypsy horses") are acceptable provided they are registered within their own breed and have proof of pedigree. Spotted Draft horses must be registered with a spotted draft horse registry and must have a pedigree background of registered Friesian, Percheron, Clydesdale, Shire, or Belgian breeding. Proof of pedigree required.

**The percentage of saddlebred can be up to 75% but never less than 25%. Many times people ask IGGHR if they can register a horse that is part Arab, TB, Morgan,etc. The answer to that question is no; The horse must be a blend of one or more of the above mentioned Friesian or draft breeds and saddlebred. No other combination will be accepted. The "light" horse in the pedigree must be Saddlebred and Saddlebred only.*

So breeding for a purpose, looking for a type, mmmm each to their own.

I own an Arab x Saddlebred, people so Oh she's an American Sport Horse, err no, she is a part bred Arab, seeing as she was born in Canada, :lol:

If a cross is done for a good reason, I have no issue, if you want to call it something, no skin off of my nose.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

The thing that gets me is that they say they are breeding for height/larger saddlebreds. 1) Can't you find a TALL saddlebred, and breed it to TALL saddlebreds? 2) They are gaited horses, when you cross them obviously they are going to lose some of that natural ability. It's not like they are crossing them with tall TWH.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Golden Horse, arab/saddlebreds are called National Show Horses in America. ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

I am honestly NOT a fan of the Friesian crosses. I have seen so many of them and not liked most of them. I LOVE Saddlebreds and I love Friesians but not mixed. Most of the mixes to me just looked illebred. Big heads and not the best conformation. I know there are those that will try to make new breeds but in many cases it produces nothing special. I guess when you have such lovely breeds as these, why not just get one of the breeds that are already out there? I am not a "purebred horses/dogs only" person but I am also not a fan of tossing breeds together to throw out a designer name and big price tag for nothing special.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Golden Horse, arab/saddlebreds are called National Show Horses in America. ;-)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Carp, it sounded wrong when I was typing it, should checked, oops

I like some draft crosses, a Friesian wouldn't be my first choice, but as I say other breeds can be in the cross.


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## Tracer (Sep 16, 2012)

I have no problems with any cross whatsoever and, in fact, I prefer grade animals, in dogs at least. As for horses, it doesn't really bother me, but it does get annoying with all these new 'breeds' popping out of the woodwork every couple of years from just that much work, rather than the hundreds of years of specialized breeding that it took for every other breed. I'm fine with calling your dog a labradoodle because it's easier than saying lab cross poodle, or a multi****, cavoodle or chug. I'm fine with your horse being called a Starab (which s really the only one of those sorts of names I've ever heard in the horse world), but going so far as to register it as a breed... I'm sorry, but I don't think that has any purpose.

But, saying so, that disregards one of my favourite 'dream' horses, the Irish Sport Horse, since all it really is an Irish Draught x TB... Even so, IMHO I think that going so far as to register a cross without refining the breed down by breeding type to type is just an excuse for the purebred elitists to feel like they are owning a brilliant horse rather than 'just a cross'. Keep in mind that that is not my POV, I love crosses, but I've met many of such 'elitists' that think that way.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Inga said:


> I am honestly NOT a fan of the Friesian crosses. I have seen so many of them and not liked most of them. I LOVE Saddlebreds and I love Friesians but not mixed. Most of the mixes to me just looked illebred. Big heads and not the best conformation. I know there are those that will try to make new breeds but in many cases it produces nothing special. I guess when you have such lovely breeds as these, why not just get one of the breeds that are already out there? I am not a "purebred horses/dogs only" person but I am also not a fan of tossing breeds together to throw out a designer name and big price tag for nothing special.


 I personally am not fond of a purebred Friesian. They all look alike and most move funny and either are pulling themselves around or have the hind step to far back. They look very akward to me.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

FeatheredFeet said:


> It is often very difficult, to make those who have paid big money for a crossbred with a cutesy name, to come to the understanding, that what they bought was basically, a mutt/grade animal. This of course, because many who breed such crosses, make a registry on their kitchen table and others believe because it is registered, is automatically something special. Goodness, even purebreds for hundreds of years and with legit registries, are not necessarily good examples of their breed.
> 
> It often comes down, to the fact that new buyers, often seem to do little or no homework, on the breed or dog/horse, they are considering.
> 
> ...


 Isn't a Gypsy vanner a cross(mutt/grade)with a cutesy name? And usually a very expensive one at that.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I don't think gypsy's are mutts. I think they may have more recent cross breeding close up in them due to their origins. I think they are no more or muts/grades then quarter horses in their origins. Ie. we started out with quarter horses that were combined with grade horses because those grade horses were good stock horses. They are combined with other things but always for a purpose. In my opinion, that has changed with the surge in halter horse popularity (some of which are not bred for their original breed purpose, the same goes for arabians). 

From what very, very little I understand of traveler culture, I could see the gypsy horses having very closed studbooks and lower levels of cross breeding because horses would have been such a sign of status in that community.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

rookie said:


> I don't think gypsy's are mutts. I think they may have more recent cross breeding close up in them due to their origins. I think they are no more or muts/grades then quarter horses in their origins. Ie. we started out with quarter horses that were combined with grade horses because those grade horses were good stock horses. They are combined with other things but always for a purpose. In my opinion, that has changed with the surge in halter horse popularity (some of which are not bred for their original breed purpose, the same goes for arabians).
> 
> From what very, very little I understand of traveler culture, I could see the gypsy horses having very closed studbooks and lower levels of cross breeding because horses would have been such a sign of status in that community.


Gypsy's are a cross between a pony and a draft horse that when speaking about a dog cross she referred to it as a mutt.
Gypsy Vanner Horse Breed | Gypsy MVP
Looks like it could be a mix of several breeds.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

see I was under the impression that many original gypsy stud books were kept under tight wraps and often kept within families. In part due to the secrecy of the gyspy/traveler society and due in part to prejudice/racism which culminates in a lack of trust. Thus its hard to know when they stopped crossing pony breeds with drafts and started to keep it just as "gypsy horses" as defined today. I may be completely wrong. 

In which case, at what time ie after how many years does it stop being a cross breeding and start becoming a recognized breed. For example, with dogs people started out with golden doodles being a cross of a golden retriever with a poodle. Now they are crossing golden doodles with golden doodles which would make those puppies "pure golden doodles" but would remove some of the out crossing/hybrid vigor associated with and desired by the original pairing. 

I think crossing fresians has become really popular lately. Which is not necessarily because they cross well but because they are valuable horses in most cases. They also have a really difficult registry process. Which means that people can at times make more money selling fresian cross foals out of unapproved fresian stallions. When their stallion would not be approved by the fresian horse association/ registry. Which is in my opinion, a bad basis for a breeding program. You can get some profoundly odd looking foals even when you combine great looking horses. You can also get some really strange looking stuff (and personality issues) when you combine poorly conformed animals. I personally, don't like it when people take animals with temperament faults (aggression, lack of bidibility etc) and breed them. When you combine temperament faults with poor conformation its a loosing combination. You can have a wonderfully put together horse but if its dangerous to be around its not worth being around.


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## Silent one (Aug 22, 2011)

SlideStop said:


> The thing that gets me is that they say they are breeding for height/larger saddlebreds. 1) Can't you find a TALL saddlebred, and breed it to TALL saddlebreds? 2) They are gaited horses, when you cross them obviously they are going to lose some of that natural ability. It's not like they are crossing them with tall TWH.



Just so you know, not all American Saddlebreds are "gaited horses". In fact, a great many of them are not, and have the standard walk, trot and canter. Then some American Saddlebreds are 5-gaited, which does include a natural trot too. 

That Georgian Grande is awesome! I have seen some beautiful Georgian Grandes. I actually called them to ask if they would register Dragon, since he is the product of a Friesian stallion and a mare that was 3/4 American Saddlebred (NSH) but one parent has to be full Saddlebred. Anyway, lovely horses.


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## Domino13011 (Aug 10, 2009)

If they are breeding for taller saddlebreds, why would they allow Gypsy Vanner crosses? Gypsys are usually on the shorter side right?


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## Canterklutz (Jul 20, 2012)

churumbeque said:


> I personally am not fond of a purebred Friesian. They all look alike and most move funny and either are pulling themselves around or have the hind step to far back. They look very akward to me.


 
That's cause Friesians are sausage-shaped hammocks with giraffe necks. :wink:


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## SEAmom (Jan 8, 2011)

A good friend of mine has two young georgian grandes - a filly and a gelding (3 & 5 respectively). They are beautiful horses with good, solid conformation, smooth gaits, and wonderful dispositions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

churumbeque said:


> I personally am not fond of a purebred Friesian. They all look alike and most move funny and either are pulling themselves around or have the hind step to far back. They look very akward to me.


They're fancy looking, and if you want a lovely cart horse then they're great horses. 
But I'm not a fan of them under saddle, I've seen very few that I like - as you said, they pull themselves around on their shoulders, and the hind legs are a mile behind. Extensions they just go higher. 
I think if you want a friesian as a saddle prospect, you'd get one for loving the breed, not for wanting to be competitive in a discipline other than in harness. 

As to the crosses, I have yet to see one that I like. Some of the friesian/wb/tb crosses look ok, but still nothing that I'd jump out of my skin and give my right arm for.


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## BBBCrone (Jan 28, 2012)

Interesting. So are these cross-bred horses now worth $25,000? I'm asking because cross-bred dogs sure do command a high dollar price LOL


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

I would say so, BBBC - the friesian x's or gypsy x's I've seen around here go for a small fortune, because they're hairy with knee action and have 'friesian/gypsy' in their name. 
Not my cup of tea, but if you want a pretty horse to love and take photos of, then they're lovely


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

Churumbeque said..

Isn't a Gypsy vanner a cross(mutt/grade)with a cutesy name? And usually a very expensive one at that. 

I was wondering how long it would take, for someone to bring up Gypsies. As usual, I wasn't disappointed. 

As I've said dozens of times on this forum, the vast majority of Gypsy owners, do NOT call their horses 'vanners'. That was a name made up by one American who brought some into the country, in the mid 90's. Gypsy families in the UK, to not approve of the name since it refers to what they consider 'half-leggers'. Those are poor quality horses and not considered breeding quality. Unfortunately the American who made up the name, did enormous advertising and the name seemed to have become the norm, for those in other breeds.

Gypsy horses/cobs, have been known and bred by the Gypsies and Travellers in the UK, for several hundred years. As with many breeds, they changed and evolved. Generations ago, when Gypsy peoples moved about, they had everything they owned on small flat carts (drays) and used smaller, lighter horses. When the Gypsy population started living in the huge and extremely heavy, living caravans, they needed very much larger and stronger animals. Their former horses were crossed with (most often) Shire type horses. In those days, Shires and Clydesdales, were all the same breed. Gypsy peoples loved a bit of flash and the black and white tobianos became favoured in the breed. I have known the breed almost all of my 72 years, but there are many much older than I, who remember their grandfathers breeding Gypsy Horses, generations before.

The true Gypsy Horse, is not new at all, but actually quite old, compared to many. And not all coloured horses in the UK, are necessarily Gypsies. Some are just recent crosses or coloured cobs of other types. Gypsies are also, no more expensive, than horses in many other breeds. 

I am not in favour of crossbreeding them. I've seen quite a few and only a couple which I thought were rather nicely made. Same with Friesians. They are very differently made from most other breeds, and the majority of the time, do not make good crosses. 

Lizzie


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## MissColors (Jul 17, 2011)

I want fresian Appaloosa babies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MissColors (Jul 17, 2011)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_2gu7dLmFp...bY/sAqDKvzsCGA/s320/2522845267_d7a0c1acc6.jpg

That is what you get in return. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Interesting to see its conformation when it matures. Pretty colour but.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Kayty said:


> Interesting to see its conformation when it matures. Pretty colour but.


It's conformation will be all it has when it grows up, pretty sure that is a grey foal. So let's hope it has the conformation to be worth having bred it without it being a "Kool Kolor®"


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## PintoJumper (Nov 21, 2012)

this cross is repulsive to me.


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

Failbhe said:


> I used to work at a vet clinic as a receptionist. When a new client made an appointment we would put their and their pet's information in the computer, and we did not have a 'labradoodle' or 'goldendoodle' option (only 'lab x' or 'poodle x') and OH DEAR LORD those people got upset. "NO, HE'S A PUREBRED!!!" Well ma'am, was his father a lab? Yes. Was his mother a poodle? Yes. Well then he's a CROSS.
> 
> I realize that all new breeds are a result of crossbreeding, but geez.


Then that will make the TB just another Arabian cross.
The Saddlebred and TWH just a Saddler cross (except that "Saddlers" were never an actual "breed"). Of course Saddles all trace back to the Pacers, so their all just some form of Pacer cross.
Every "breed" of domestic and feral horse on earth just some form of cross breed. There is no such thing as a "pure" breed. Just animals meeting the requirement of being classified as member of breed.

So "geez" why do we bother to call any of them a breed? .....because that's what they become....a breed. When a GG Stallion out of a Friesian/Saddle bred cross is bred with a mare our of a Friesian/Saddlebred cross the offspring is not a Friesian/Saddlebred cross. Neither of the parents were Fresian or Saddlebered, so you can't say they're a Friesian or Saddlebred cross. But they have the exact same breeding line as a Friesian/Saddlebred cross. That's why we have "breeds".


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

Kayty said:


> They're fancy looking, and if you want a lovely cart horse then they're great horses.
> But I'm not a fan of them under saddle, I've seen very few that I like - as you said, they pull themselves around on their shoulders, and the hind legs are a mile behind. Extensions they just go higher.
> I think if you want a friesian as a saddle prospect, you'd get one for loving the breed, not for wanting to be competitive in a discipline other than in harness.
> 
> As to the crosses, I have yet to see one that I like. Some of the friesian/wb/tb crosses look ok, but still nothing that I'd jump out of my skin and give my right arm for.


Actually, the Friesian was a riding horse, popular with nobility, long before it become a pulling horse.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Yep, but right now for competitive disciplines, they're not built to do it. Everyone seems to think they are Dressage horses - they're not. They pull like crazy, and the hind legs are just not designed to sit and carry - they track a mile out behind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

SlideStop said:


> The thing that gets me is that they say they are breeding for height/larger saddlebreds. 1) Can't you find a TALL saddlebred, and breed it to TALL saddlebreds? 2) They are gaited horses, when you cross them obviously they are going to lose some of that natural ability. It's not like they are crossing them with tall TWH.


No, today is become very difficult to find large boned ASB's or TWH. It's not about height. Go out and measure the cannon bone size of your average ASB or TWH. You're doing great if you find 8". Show breeding has diminished the physical build and strength of the breed as a whole in favor of fancy movements. The old Saddlers were working horses, so bone size and endurance strength mattered, but it's not what show horses need.
Actually the ASB lost gaiting when the breed was created by breeding Saddler mares to TB Stallions. Saddlers were ALL naturally gaited. The two TB/Saddler stallion crosses that become the foundation stallions for virtually all the ASB breed were gaited, but still carred the non gaited genes of their TB sires which accounts for why you have so many ASB that are not naturally gaited and some that must be trained to it. Contrary to what many ASB lovers like to say it was the saddlers that were so hugely popular in the South and midwest prior to and during the 1960's. The TB crosses did not exist in sufficient numbers to supply all those gaited CAv mounts that were among the darlings of the Southern and later the US CAV. As well as many top officers.
And today I see many full blood TWH that are not gaited, so even that breed is suffering from the effects of breeding that is diminishing that breed. They are also starting to be less robust that they were when I had mine back in the 70's.


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

Kayty said:


> Yep, but right now for competitive disciplines, they're not built to do it. Everyone seems to think they are Dressage horses - they're not. They pull like crazy, and the hind legs are just not designed to sit and carry - they track a mile out behind.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I've heard people talk about them not riding well and being more suited for a carrage horse, but I've not seen it and I do ride them.
Mine rides like a dream although there have beem times when her trot was more animated than my previous QH and TWH were, but while it doesn't matter to me that's probably a plus to some people. I stopped having any interest in Dressage 44 years ago, but have had more than one does Dressage want me to have my older mare trained for dressage because of her "movement". And while she's never had any jump training she's only recently stopped jumping the 44" dividing fence between the pastures. Which she doesn't need to jump since there's no gate and an openning 3 feet from where she liked to jump it.
So while I hear people say they are not as athletic my personal experience has shown that they are. They seem more like a Warmblood which would make sense considering that both were created from the same basic breeding concept as the Dutch Warmblood. One was just developed many years earlier so it's more defined and established. In 100 year who knows what these other new breeds will be doing. Consider that the Dutch Warmblood breed was created in my lifetime and today I don't think anyone would say it's not an athletic horse well suited to riding compeition. Dispite the light draft and carrage horse blood used in it's creation.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I can't say much about fresian or fresian crossing. It seems to be done a lot, which I think gives an over representation of horses that perhaps should not have been bred regardless of breed. I also can't say how I feel about the breed. I have only really seen them move in hand at horse show events and at that time they did not impress me. Then again most horses moving in hand do not impress me (its a giant lameness exam). I have never thought of them as un-athletic or incapable of things. I sort of assumed they were crossed with other breeds because they were athletic and expensive.


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

I am curious as to what would even be the point of crossing a Friesian and a Saddlebred horse? Someone said to get a taller Saddlebred? That makes no sense at all as there are purebred Saddlebreds that are 17 + hands. If you want a Saddlebred with more bone, look to the 5 gaited bred horses, they tend to have a bit more bone. To me, if you want a Saddlebred with more bone, you begin by breeding Saddlebred to Saddlebred to create it. Tossing in random other horse just never made sense to me.

The Friesian cross thing was all the rage here a several years back now there are a lot of large headed horses standing in pastures and going through sales cheap because they don't do what some folks hoped they would. It seems instead of getting a good dressage horse, they produced a horse that was very heavy on the front end, unlike the Saddlebred that is lofty in front. 

I am not saying there are No babies that are nice, I am sure there are, I just have not seen them. I have seen a LOT of cross breds though as like I said, they were all the rage here.

When looking for a Friesian under saddle, this is what I like.


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## Tracer (Sep 16, 2012)

Now that's a darn nice horse, Inga. I personally think that the Friesian is one of the breeds that were created purely for aesthetics. I won't lie, I have the typical fascination with them, and they are the favourite breed of most people I know (but in their defense, most of them don't know much about horses). But they aren't practical, and they have no real use. I mean sure, I'd have one for casual trail rides if I was a millionaire just for the sake of it, but it would be one like the one in that video, one that moves almost like a normal horse.


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

Tracer said:


> Now that's a darn nice horse, Inga. I personally think that the Friesian is one of the breeds that were created purely for aesthetics. I won't lie, I have the typical fascination with them, and they are the favourite breed of most people I know (but in their defense, most of them don't know much about horses). But they aren't practical, and they have no real use. I mean sure, I'd have one for casual trail rides if I was a millionaire just for the sake of it, but it would be one like the one in that video, one that moves almost like a normal horse.


 

Which is in large part why I have seen many many poorly put together cross breeds. SOME people think "oh Friesian, Oh Saddlebred" and toss them together. Not ALL Friesians are quality nor are all Saddlebreds. MUCH thought must be going into breeding regardless of what you are trying to accomplish. Looking BACK at bloodlines, what the specimen you are looking at has thrown. What is consistant in that line, what is strong, what is weak? These are all important and so few people look hard enough. IMO


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

Tried to just add to my last post but it would not let me.






That is the fantacy of the Friesian but though I think it is pretty. I find it sort of sad as well. The horse is braided and protected 99% of it's life to protect hair. I am sort of guilty of that as I had a mare several years back that was a dark liver chestnut with a white/flaxen mane and tail. The tail was babyed, big time. It dragged on the ground 8 feet. It was long enough to wrap around the horse 1 1/2 times. It was brought down for shows and for cleaning only. One day I thought "what the heck am I doing?" I lopped her tail off and put her back out to run in the pasture. She was never abused but... I think she liked having her tail weigh less. ha ha She ran around with it flagging up in the air. I lost interest in the "my pretty pony" thing. A horse is more then hair. ha ha Thank goodness for that mare it was short lived. That tail grew like crazy and it didn't take long to get it that long. She was only tail pampered for a short time in her life. Glad it was short lived.


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## Failbhe (May 8, 2012)

its lbs not miles said:


> So "geez" why do we bother to call any of them a breed? .....*because that's what they become*....a breed. When a GG Stallion out of a Friesian/Saddle bred cross is bred with a mare our of a Friesian/Saddlebred cross the offspring is not a Friesian/Saddlebred cross. Neither of the parents were Fresian or Saddlebered, so you can't say they're a Friesian or Saddlebred cross. But they have the exact same breeding line as a Friesian/Saddlebred cross. That's why we have "breeds".


Yes, that's what they become. But IMO, it's not a 'breed' now. In a generation or two when you can show me consistent offspring with the desired traits you've been breeding for, sure, then we can start calling it a breed. Creating new breeds of horses (or dogs for that matter) used to be a long process (painstaking and well thought out for some, accidental for others) but nowadays everyone wants instant gratification. "Look, I crossed two things - it's a new breed!!!" No, it's a cross. Perhaps a nice cross, but it's a cross.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Now where exactly do you draw a line on the "new breed" thing. What if I take an appy and a friesian, cross them and breed up their babies. I'll call them a them a spotted sport horse. I'll also give people papers and registration numbers. At this rate the possibilities are endless.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Phantomcolt18 (Sep 25, 2007)

MissColors said:


> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_2gu7dLmFp...bY/sAqDKvzsCGA/s320/2522845267_d7a0c1acc6.jpg
> 
> That is what you get in return.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm pretty sure this is him now. His name is Mystic Warrior. I think I saw this on another thread awhile ago someone correct me if I'm wrong)


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

Failbhe said:


> Yes, that's what they become. But IMO, it's not a 'breed' now. In a generation or two when you can show me consistent offspring with the desired traits you've been breeding for, sure, then we can start calling it a breed. Creating new breeds of horses (or dogs for that matter) used to be a long process (painstaking and well thought out for some, accidental for others) but nowadays everyone wants instant gratification. "Look, I crossed two things - it's a new breed!!!" No, it's a cross. Perhaps a nice cross, but it's a cross.


Well, I'll pick on the Dutch Warmblood since it has things in common and is not very old. It's studbook started in 1958, 26 years before the Georgian Grand registry, so is the Dutch Warmblood just now meeting the requirement of being called a breed (depending on how many years you call a generation)? Actually, the Dutch Warmblood was considered a "breed" by the time it was as old as the Georgian Grande. Not as recognised as it is today and not as successful, but still an accepted "breed".
What matters is does the "breed" survive. e.g. You can't find the "American Horse" today. You can find many breeds that it contributed to the creation of and they ultimately replaced it.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

The Dutch WB is a type, not a breed. Just like the Hanoverian, Holstein, Oldenberg, Swedish etc etc etc. The European registries accept horses into their stud books based in type - a Hanoverian bred made may be included in the Oldenberg stud book if it is if a type that compliments the desired traits of the Oldenberg 'type'.
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