# **** footed or sesamoid bone fracture?



## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

I honestly have no experience with it, but from the picture and article it sure sounds like the sesamoid fracture fits the bill. 

I just have to say though, bless your shelter for taking her in. The video was awful to watch, the poor dear in such bad shape with all those wounds and desperately reaching for that bread. It was heartbreaking to see. You have done a very good thing.


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

Poor girl : ( She looks like a sweet horse. 

Someone actually rode the horse in the first picture? : /


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

How strange that both she and the horse in the example picture seem to have the same injuries, even down to the scrapes on the hip bone and butt. The world is full of odd coincidences. I think you probably hit the nail right on the head as far as the fracture. I am not sure but I would guess that maybe her tendons on the left front were stretched out a bit as a result of carrying most of her weight on that foot alone while her other leg healed. With the amount of injuries she has, I wonder if maybe she fell down a steep hill or maybe got hit by a car. That poor girl, Bless you guys for taking her in and giving her a much better quality life.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

Do you know how she got all beat up? Looks like an amazing story, like she was attacked by an animal or something. I think you are right on with the fracture. Such a sweet looking girl.


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## damnedEvans (Jan 23, 2010)

@ShutUpJoe: She is a sweet horse even if she bites and kicks. We didn't even try to fix those issues because of her health condition. I guess that she will remain with those behavioral issues all her life. We can handle her this way with a little caution and we don't want to stress her even more than she may be. 
I really don't know nothing of the first picture, I took it from the internet for exemplification. But yes, that horse looked like he had been even rode in that condition. 

@Indyhorse: yes, this diagnostic is the only one I found that it seems to be more accurate. But I thought that she must have the same condition at her both front legs. But I guess that it can be only in one leg. 

@Honeysuga and smrobs: Well I know where the signs are from and I can imagine how she suffered the injury. She was a carriage horse, she pulled heavy weights all her life. Even if she was so thin and starved the former owners put her at work in this condition. So I guess that because of her wick condition she couldn't pull the carriage full with steel (the gipsies from here sell steel, this is their only income). If she couldn't do her job they beat her up in order to keep her moving so her feet couldn't take it more. So basically she was forced to pull the carriage until she couldn't move it any more even with the beatings. 

I saw a mare that was put to work and because she couldn't do it more was forced until her ligaments on the front feet just broke. I don't think that this is the proper term but I don't know how to say it. The fetlocks of that poor horse were reaching the ground because of the suspensory ligaments that failed to sustain it. So the mare couldn't stand up more than a minute and when she could stand up she would stand only on her fetlocks. We put her down. 

So it's not an isolated case. The wounds from her back here actually from her harness and the scratches were probably from beating her up with a chain or a piece of thick steel. 



And thank you all for the information. I really want to learn a lot more about horses related with health, nutrition, medicine etc. So because of that I ask things like this one. I have a lot of cases and I want to find out answers. So thank you.


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## shesinthebarn (Aug 1, 2009)

I would agree that it is most likely a broken sesamoid. It seems almost as if it has calcified to remain that large. Sesamoid injuries are fairly common in racehorses, but it is usually diagnosed, treated(sometimes surgically) and the horse receives rest. The sesamoid injuries I have seen are mostly "lines" or small stress fractures. I have seen a few fully broken/shattered sesamoids, and those horses were treated and retired. I guess the horses in those pictures are examples of what happens when it goes untreated. How terrible. Her poor knees, too! I feel so sad for her, and I'm happy she is being cared for now - you are a very kind-hearted person!


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## damnedEvans (Jan 23, 2010)

shesinthebarn said:


> I would agree that it is most likely a broken sesamoid. It seems almost as if it has calcified to remain that large. Sesamoid injuries are fairly common in racehorses, but it is usually diagnosed, treated(sometimes surgically) and the horse receives rest. The sesamoid injuries I have seen are mostly "lines" or small stress fractures. I have seen a few fully broken/shattered sesamoids, and those horses were treated and retired. I guess the horses in those pictures are examples of what happens when it goes untreated. How terrible. Her poor knees, too! I feel so sad for her, and I'm happy she is being cared for now - you are a very kind-hearted person!


Unfortunately for us is very hard to treat such injuries. The shelter has no founds for this kind of injuries. Besides of that she was very thin and the prognostic wasn't to good. So investing a lot of money in a horse like this was not an option. In that period the shelter was barely able to feed all the horses. So the injury was left untreated to heal for itself. It wasn't the best solution but it was the only solution available. 
Being a pasture ornament she doesn't put a lot of stress on fer feet. 

We have another horse like her at the shelter right now with the exact same problem. But his feet are in a better shape than those of this mare. I don't have pictures available of him. He has the both front fetlocks like that but without the swelling appearance. So I guess that isn't a rare injury in carriage horses too.


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## shesinthebarn (Aug 1, 2009)

Oh, I didn't mean that YOU should have treated it - from the video it seems as though it was already pretty far gone. 
You are doing a great thing for this poor mare...


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## FlyinSoLow (Jan 5, 2010)

I'd put the horse down. That is just down right pathetic.
Honestly: the shelter money could be better spend 100 different ways then 'saving' this horse. She has to be in some pain...

People don't even want the sane, healthy, ridable ones....but if you want a pasture pet; you can find a million free 'healthier' pasture pets any day around here.


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## FlyinSoLow (Jan 5, 2010)

damnedEvans said:


> She is a sweet horse even if she bites and kicks. We didn't even try to fix those issues because of her health condition. I guess that she will remain with those behavioral issues all her life.


Oh, yes. Who wouldn't want to give a horse like that a forever home? :shock:

She's had a hard, sad life, Sure. 
Do I feel bad for the little mare? Of course.

But I'd still put her down, its in her best insterest imo.


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## damnedEvans (Jan 23, 2010)

FlyinSoLow said:


> I'd put the horse down. That is just down right pathetic.
> Honestly: the shelter money could be better spend 100 different ways then 'saving' this horse. She has to be in some pain...
> 
> People don't even want the sane, healthy, ridable ones....but if you want a pasture pet; you can find a million free 'healthier' pasture pets any day around here.



Totally agree with your point of view but how can you have a shelter without helping some horses like this? If they came to you and you see their will of life why put them down?.. The horses that came to us are in a proportion of 90 % cases without hope... We have at the moment 23 of horses, just 6 of them are sound and we accept every horse that came to us. 
The shelter is not mine, I agree that some horses should be put down but I have no power to decide this. I just volunteer there and help when I can. But this mare deserves a chance of life, it's not a hopeless case and she doesn't suffer very much. She seems to be ok. 

But you have right in a way. It depends on everyone point of view.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

I think euthanasia would be helping her. She is a drain on funds no matter how much you love her. And wen it all comes down to it, who is going to want a crippled horse to feed and care for if it can only ever be a pasture ornament. PLUS you have to think what her arthritis is going to be like eventually wih those messed up legs, that is going to do a number on her back and legs.

She is a sweet girl who has had a hard life, she shouldn't have to suffer anymore.

You ask,"what kind of shelter wouldn't help a horse like this?" My response is what kind of shelter would waste funds on a horse that has no chance of rehabbing and great potential for future problems instead of putting her out of her misery and spending the money on horses that can be rehabbed and sent to loving forever homes? It is a shelter, not a bank, you odnt have the funds to waste really...


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## FlyinSoLow (Jan 5, 2010)

damnedEvans said:


> But this mare deserves a chance of life, it's not a hopeless case *and she doesn't suffer very much. *She seems to be ok.


But she does suffer. :-| Therefore, putting her down would be fair. There are few homes for agressive pasture pets.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Everything that lives and breathes is a drain on funds. Horses, children, dogs, cats and old people!

I have an old gelding now, that I'm sure a lot of people would put down. But he gave me a lot of good years and so I take care of him even though he isn't sound. 

If they have money to feed her and she has a decent quality of life, well, that is what rescues are for. Isn't it? If they only take in sound and healthy horses, they would be horse traders, not a rescue facility.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

trailhorserider said:


> Everything that lives and breathes is a drain on funds. Horses, children, dogs, cats and old people!
> 
> I have an old gelding now, that I'm sure a lot of people would put down. But he gave me a lot of good years and so I take care of him even though he isn't sound.
> 
> If they have money to feed her and she has a decent quality of life, well, that is what rescues are for. Isn't it? If they only take in sound and healthy horses, they would be horse traders, not a rescue facility.



^^^ I agree completely. This mare likely gave a lot of good years of hard work and unfortunately sacrificed her health in the process, serving people, even if they were horrible ones. I don't understand people that think an animal should be euthanized just because they have outlived their usefulness. I realise I am kind of more emotional than logical in my mentality in regards to this, but to me the animals deserve some returned loyalty. People did this to her, she didn't do it to herself, and to toss her aside because she can't work anymore is a very sad thought to me. Just my opinion. 

And as for this:


> who is going to want a crippled horse to feed and care for if it can only ever be a pasture ornament


I can raise my hand here. I _have_ one. I have a mare who is unsound in her legs and feet, and was deemed to have no usefulness beyond being a breeding machine. When she got to a point that her necessary vet bills looked to outweigh her money making potential as a broodmare, she was going to be sent to auction before I stepped in and asked for her. It took me about 2 seconds thought to take her on, and even if she never recovers enough to be anything but a crippled pasture ornament, she will have a good, well cared for and well loved life with me. Horses have been an important part of my life, and I think of it as my way of giving back. And I'll tell you what, this mare has more than repaid me already, I have learned so much about how precious the little things in life are from her, in the short time she has been with me. She makes me appreciate everything more. And that makes it all worth it, to me.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

Yes, but that horse is your pet. This is a horse at a rescue, taking the spot of a horse that ca be rehabbed and have a great new home. Is it fair to have her holding the place of another horse who could need help? She has had a good time at the rescue, I am sure she is happy, why not let her go when she is happy than wait til she is in crippling pain from the inevitable arthritis?


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

I can appreciate your point of view, honestly, it just doesn't line up with my own. I've never seen an over-funded rescue and goodness knows they see more bad cases like this than the ones that can make a good turn around and become a valuable working animal. But to me, that really isn't the point. You don't go into rescue just to take on the only "slightly broken toys" or ones that have maximum resale potential. Rescue in itself isn't a highly logical and certainly not profitable occupation. But again, to my mind anyways, that's not the point. To me, rescue is about taking the cast offs no one else has the heart to love. If they can be rehabbed and go on to have a working career, then that is icing, certainly. No harm, no foul, I think we just see this thing differently. I tend to be very logical about most things in my life, but this is one area where I'm not able to be.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

I respect your opinion and agree to disagree. Like you I prefer to look at the logic in life rather than get caught up in emotion, even if my heart says "aww save the pony", call it cold but that is how I am.


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## HooverH (May 17, 2008)

Honeysuga said:


> Why not let her go when she is happy than wait til she is in crippling pain from the inevitable arthritis?


Or you could always do the middle way, and let her be happy until she starts to show signs of pain. On the subject of why anyone would want a crippled horse who is a "pasture ornament", I also have one. Hoover is also a broken down carriage horse, and some day he will arthritis that will force me to put him down. The key word there is -some day-. Right now he is comfortable and happy, runs and plays like any other horse. He just can't be ridden, but I knew that when I adopted him. And actually, I could still ride him. But it would break him down faster, and I will not do that to him. But I also won't end his life while he can still enjoy it.

Also, there are rescues that specialize in horses that -are not- able to be rehomed. At the rescue I volunteer with we have permanent residents... mainly blind horses. Could we use the money to rehab potentially adoptable horses? Yes. But it's -our choice- what we choose to rescue. If the funders thought it was best to only deal with horses who can be ride-able, then they would reflect that in their donations. Why does a rehomeable horse have more right to a happy life than a non rehomeable one? Because they can be of use to us as humans? We actually specialize in horses that other rescues won't take, or rescue rescues...horses from "rescues" that are starved and abused. 

Evans- I would immediately put her on some sort of glucosamine and condroitin supplement. Her joints look like they have fused in the front, so the arthritis is going to come in her knees. I wouldn't call her a lost case by any means compared to some of the horses we rehab. The kicking and biting is just fear of being hit...but she looks like she still has soft eyes, so it should work it's way out with trust. Hoover went through a kicking and biting period for the same reason...the Amish used to hit him with a 2x4. She just needs to know no one is going to beat her anymore, that she'll get food, and not be asked to pull anything ever again.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

HooverH said:


> The kicking and biting is just fear of being hit...but she looks like she still has soft eyes, so it should work it's way out with trust. She just needs to know no one is going to beat her anymore, that she'll get food, and not be asked to pull anything ever again.


That is an extremely naive assumption...


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## damnedEvans (Jan 23, 2010)

I knew that this will be a tricky subject. I really understand the two point of view. 
*First one: put her down.* Yes, she will never become a sound horse, she isn't usable, and she has some behavioral issues. I understand the opinion to put her down and in some ways I agree. But again, the people that take decisions in this shelter decided that they have money for her and that they want to keep it. We don't expect for her to be adopted, nobody will adopt such a horse. She is a permanent resident of the shelter and she will be kept until she will show some signs of discomfort. 
We can use the money that we spent on her for other horses but now it isn't a need for this. We still accept any horse, we never rejected a horse. Maybe it will came a day when we will be forced to put down the horses that are beyond rehabilitation. Maybe when that day will come she will have arthritis too, so we will put her down. But in the same time she will have spent a couple of years as a happy horse. She will have spent time in the pasture, eating, playing to other horses, behaving as a horse and not as a simple carriage horse for some mean owners. 

*second one: keep her alive *until she will be in pain and she will have to be put down. This is the opinion that I agree with. At the moment she doesn't seems to be in pain. I really saw horses that were in pain and I can recognize when a horse is really suffering. She at the moment doesn't show such signs. She is behaving like a normal horse, playing, kicking other horses, eating etc. So for the moment she seems to be fine so I can't see why she should be put down. In the future this will be an alternative and I agree with it. 

As for her behavior. We have people that can handle her with no problems. I can handle her with no problem except the thing that I can't handle her back feet. As I said she will not be adopted so we don't see the need to get rid of her behavioral issues. She is not a dangerous horse, she will not attack a human (we had 3 horses attacked humans and they had been adopted by experienced owners that really could handle them). Her problems are minor, a lot of abused horses will kick and bite. We rarely see an abused horse with manners. She indeed can be a danger if she is not handled properly.
She could be trained to not bite or kick but this will be possible if someone will work with her everyday and will gain her trust. 

I don't see why this will be an_ "extremely naive assumption..."_ Horses can be trained by gaining their trust. A horse will not bite you if he trusts you.Thank you all for your opinions, I appreciate it. _
_


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## damnedEvans (Jan 23, 2010)

HooverH said:


> Evans- I would immediately put her on some sort of glucosamine and condroitin supplement. Her joints look like they have fused in the front, so the arthritis is going to come in her knees. I wouldn't call her a lost case by any means compared to some of the horses we rehab. The kicking and biting is just fear of being hit...but she looks like she still has soft eyes, so it should work it's way out with trust. Hoover went through a kicking and biting period for the same reason...the Amish used to hit him with a 2x4. She just needs to know no one is going to beat her anymore, that she'll get food, and not be asked to pull anything ever again.


Yes, some people will see her as a case without hope but this is because they didn't see a worse case. When you work at a horse shelter you will see some awful cases and you will became used to see that there is hope even for some hard cases. Horses have a remarkable power of healing. They will recover even if they have some bad injuries. I saw some horses so emaciated  that they had been almost near death but they recovered. I saw some cases at ASPCA at tv with emaciated  horses and they just put them down. Even a horse with score 1 on the Henneke Scale can be rehabilitated and I really saw such cases. 

Thank you for the advice.


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