# Best saddle for trail riding?



## Brynne

I've ridden some in Australian saddles and really like them. I also can't stand the bulkiness of Western saddles. I think it could very well be what you are looking for!


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## Dehda01

If you like the saddle, but just want more stick, adding a sheepskin or thinline seat protector and riding in fullseats may give you the stick you want in an English saddle. I prefer to ride in my normal eventing saddle. Some people their dressage saddle. Whatever is comfortable for them. Sit-tight spray is another option. 

I don't like the locked in feeling of an Australian saddle, but other people do. I Hate them with a firey passion. 

Western saddles are an option, but take some getting use to. I ride my greenies or freshies in a western saddle if I really want something to hold on to.


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## bsms

My Abetta weighs 15 lbs and has fenders as flexible as anything can get.

Australian saddles from DownUnder weigh in around 25 lbs with stirrups, leathers, etc. My daughter's old Circle Y weighs 25 lbs, and my heavy duty western saddle is 30 lbs. It would be 35 lbs, but it was custom built with shorter skirts for an Arabian.

The Bates English saddles I used to own were 12 & 15 lbs, IIRC. The CC saddle had a narrow channel - the groove running down the middle - and it put too much pressure very close to my horse's spine. The AP saddle was better, but both had CAIR and I'll never own another saddle with CAIR.

I'd recommend taking a look at several brands of synthetic western saddles. They are only 3-4 lbs heavier than a leather English saddle, and the fenders twist as easily an an English stirrup leather...with less probability of pinching as well. My Abetta is used by my wife and visitors and is holding up well, but any of the synthetic western saddles in the $400-500 range ought to be OK.


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## walkinthewalk

The best saddle is the one that fits the horse first, and the rider second, IMO.

I have ridden bareback most of my life but I have seven saddles - there was always something to fit each of my people friendly horses and the riders.

Buy something lightweight. Not that the horse can't handle a 32 lb saddle but, the older you get, the more you will come to hate slinging or sliding it up on the horse

I don't like Abetta because I don't like center fire rigging. Maybe they make something these days without it.

The subject of treeless might come up: It has been my observation on these forums that the only people who successfully ride in a treeless saddle are the ones with great natural balance to begin with.

Dressage saddles make nice trail saddles. 

Endurance saddles.

The original Plantation style saddles but Kodak doesn't look big shouldered enough for one of those.

If all else fails, you can visit the crestridgesaddlery.com website and have something custom made for under a $1,000.


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## bsms

My Abetta has standard western rigging.


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## anndankev

My Abetta Classic Round Skirt, and the Special Trail model have 7/8 rigging. They are great light weight saddles for me (and my poor old body/shoulders), and a good fit for many horses I have tried them on.

The Abetta Endurance did have Centerfire rigging. It also had quite a different too-wide and squar-ish gullet and angles. It did not fit anything I tried it on.


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## DraftyAiresMum

I loathe synthetic saddles. Every single one I've ridden in was uncomfortable and put me in a horrible position.

I had an aussie saddle that I sold to @karliejaye that I adored, but it was too wide for my gelding at the time and I couldn't afford to keep a saddle I couldn't use. If I can ever find another one that was as good a quality, I'm buying it. I like the security and it was just ridiculously comfortable.

I had a Circle A barrel saddle that I loved. It weighed all of 20lbs, fully rigged. But, it had a fiberglass tree and the tree turned to push in key places, so that saddle is no longer useable.

Now I have an older Tex Tan Hereford. It's ridiculously comfortable (which is high praise coming from me, as I don't like the majority of western saddles). It actually doesn't weigh as much as I expected. My gelding is 17hh and I have a bad shoulder, but I can lift this saddle onto his back with zero problems.


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## elle1959

It's all about comfort to me, both for myself and the horse. I LOVE my Circle Y Topeka saddle which I bought used for around $900. It's heavy, but I started lifting weights in order to handle it better and that worked fine for me. Charlie loves it, too. I have a lot of hip pain due to a not-quite-straight hip, and most of the saddles I've used for long periods of time cause a lot of pain after a while. This one is always comfortable for both of us, no matter how long I am in it. 

Of course, it is a western saddle. When I was in Florida with @knightrider I tried several of her saddles and ended up liking one of her endurance saddles quite well. It seemed to combine the best of both worlds, was lightweight and comfortable. I believe, but am not sure, it was an Abetta, though the larger point would be maybe to look into that style.


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## Avna

Many endurance saddles are sort of a lightweight mix of english and western styles. You could almost certainly find a saddle with the features you want in a synthetic endurance saddle. Abetta is not the only brand by a long shot.


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## Jan1975

I think an endurance saddle would be great! I don't have one, but I always admire them in @phantomhorse13's pics.


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## knightrider

My endurance saddle is an Abetta and is very comfortable. However, if you REALLY want to stay in the saddle, I recommend a bear claw barrel saddle. It's a little hard to mount and dismount from it, but that's the whole point--you won't come out of it with big spooks.


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## Curly_Horse_CMT

I use a Sensation Harmony Element treeless currently, although I had had quite a few different Sensation models throughout the years. High quality (made in Canada by Nickers Saddlery) and very comfy! The ones I have owned or ridden in have fit a variety of horses, from my gaited Bashkir Curly cross and my Icelandic to my mom's QH gelding or my sister's former Paso. There are a number of treeless types out there that are high quality yet affordable, and you can get Entlish or western rigging for many of them. Here is my mare in my current SHE.


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## Folly

I'll be interested to see what you decide on - keep us posted!


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## Skyseternalangel

Is there a way you could trial some options locally?


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## Acadianartist

Skyseternalangel said:


> Is there a way you could trial some options locally?


No. There is one tack shop about an hour away from me with about two saddles in it.  

However, I've dealt with suppliers that will let you do a trial, except that you are usually on the hook for shipping and that can amount to a fair bit. 

So I am still looking at all my options but am also waiting for my trimmer to come on Wednesday because she rides in an endurance saddle and knows a lot on the subject. I like all the suggestions in here, but being local, she might have good tips for me about how to properly fit Kodak for an endurance saddle. 

I will let you all know what I end up doing and will share pics! I'm still trying to learn all I can about endurance saddles and other, similar options. Keep your comments coming!


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## egrogan

My typical hack out is ~3 miles, I can't really ride more than 5 miles on the properties I have access to, so that's pretty much my limit without a trailer. I am very happy in my dressage saddle (Trilogy Debbie MacDonald) for that. I have also done full-day horse trekking trips in a regular All Purpose English saddle. I am really short so I need a saddle with a short flap or it's very uncomfortable and difficult to use my leg in any meaningful way, which is very important to me! 

I don't have a lot of experience riding in a Western saddle, but I never liked how far away the horse felt under all that bulk. Have never had the chance to ride in an Australian or Endurance saddle, but I would like to try one out.

But like people said, I think it mostly just comes down to what you're used to, as long as it fits your horse.


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## Kato

I ride in a huge heavy ranch saddle I love it. However I also have a Wintec aussie that I adore. When my mare was spooky all the time I rode in the aussie. She has a wicked spin and can teleport 10 feet directly to the side. That aussie held me in extremely well, not to mention I could ride in it all day. It is also pretty light. My only complaint is the one time I felt the need to bail off my bucking bronco I found it extremely difficult. It was not a pretty dismount but I was able to do so unhurt, thanks to the mud I landed in.


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## Mulefeather

I'd say an Endurance saddle would be perfect in terms of what you like and want. They are typically a mix of the features people like in English as well as Western saddles, without the bulk and usually without the horn. 

If you have the money to put towards it, Tucker has some nice options and some of their vendors, like Valley Vet, lend out trial saddles for you to try on your horse. It requires a deposit on a credit card, but if you like it, it goes towards the purchase of a new saddle.


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## gunslinger

Well, My Tucker is a western saddle, with a saddle horn....but it's very comfortable.


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## Smilie

Depends on what kind of trail riding you do.Far as saddles, a well made western trail saddle , is worlds apart from those cheap synthetic ones, or cheap leather ones

People that complain about the bulk or the way the stirrups hang, causing problems, esp if you have bad knees, are riding in either old type western saddles or poorly made cheap ones
I rode for many years, with very bad knees, which now are both replaced, in my balance ride saddle, and I was quite rare to even be riding with knees as bad as that, as I walked like a duck, with bent legs
A well fitted saddle made on a rawhide tree, is not as completely rigid as one built on a synthetic tree, plus distributes weight better.
For endurance riding, you travel very light, with pit stops along teh way, so not the same as truly trail riding, which is also not the same as just riding out a bit
I want awell made saddle, that allows close contact, with that twist , which has those stirrups already hanging correctly. Skirts need to be long enough so that saddle bags can be tied on comfortably, plus strings long enough to add a slicker and warm coat
Back cinch is a must , on a trail riding saddle, (done up, not dangling ) I also use a breast collar. I also ride with pommel bags, as well as saddle bags


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## Acadianartist

My trimmer was in yesterday and told me she rides in a treeless saddle from a company named Nickers. She loves her saddle, but I had a look at them and they run about 2000$. However, she said I could come try hers out so I may do that. 

I'm really torn. On the one hand, I am very hesitant to order something online with that kind of price tag because I may not like it. On the other hand, if I get a cheap endurance saddle and don't like it, it may just be due to the fact that it's not a good quality saddle. 

Found a used Tucker out of Quebec that would fit. Seeing if the seller will ship. It's got more of a Western style, but looks comfortable. Thoughts on it? Are Tucker saddles very heavy? Selle d'endurance & équipement | accessoires pour bétails et chevaux | Lanaudière | Kijiji

Another thing I don't really want is a horn. So while a Western saddle might work well for trail riding, I really don't like having that horn in the way.


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## Acadianartist

Smilie said:


> Depends on what kind of trail riding you do.Far as saddles, a well made western trail saddle , is worlds apart from those cheap synthetic ones, or cheap leather ones
> 
> P
> For endurance riding, you travel very light, with pit stops along teh way, so not the same as truly trail riding, which is also not the same as just riding out a bit


Ok, well I don't plan on doing true endurance runs that are organized with pit stops, etc. More like short trail rides (2-3 hours probably - though I wouldn't mind working up to a full-day ride). I ride out in the back of my property so no facilities are available. I'm on my own out there so I need to carry whatever I need with me.


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## Kato

My heavy ranch saddle is a wade tree. It has lots of tie strings to hold saddle bags and a rain coat on. My aussie has lots of tie rings available as well. I ride 2-3 hours in each comfortably. The only reason I haven't used the aussie lately is I haven't adjusted the gullet since my cow lost 200 lbs, only takes 5 min but I'm lazy, and just throw on the western.


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## Kato

Odd the other pic wouldn't load


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## Acadianartist

I prefer the look of the first one Kato - but that's just my bias against Western I guess. The only thing I'd worry about is the long flap on it. I've read that for people with short legs (yours truly at all of 5 ft), the longer flaps inhibit contact with the horse. Given that I'm used to riding English, I could see that being problematic for me. That probably rules out all Aussie saddles because they're all made like that.


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## Kato

I've had my eye on a couple of more expensive endurance saddles. Apparently I must have one nice saddle of each style.....or so it seems by my collection.


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## NavigatorsMom

I think there are some places online that allow for saddle trials (with free return shipping if it doesn't work?). You might want to look into that, once you narrow down to a saddle you're interested in. I think Smartpak and Dover both offer the trial system. Of course, that would only work if they have the saddle you want to try. Good luck! Saddle shopping is a pain.


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## Acadianartist

NavigatorsMom said:


> I think there are some places online that allow for saddle trials (with free return shipping if it doesn't work?). You might want to look into that, once you narrow down to a saddle you're interested in. I think Smartpak and Dover both offer the trial system. Of course, that would only work if they have the saddle you want to try. Good luck! Saddle shopping is a pain.


Thanks NavigatorsMom - I'm in Canada so that further complicates things. Smartpak will NOT ship to Canada and even if an online saddlery is willing to ship here, it's expensive and there are things involved like customs. That said, there are a few dealers here in Canada so I'm exploring those options.


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## NavigatorsMom

Acadianartist said:


> Thanks NavigatorsMom - I'm in Canada so that further complicates things. Smartpak will NOT ship to Canada and even if an online saddlery is willing to ship here, it's expensive and there are things involved like customs. That said, there are a few dealers here in Canada so I'm exploring those options.


Ah, didn't realize that, sorry! (guess I could have looked under your avatar and figured it out! :icon_rolleyes Hope you can find something more locally.


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## Acadianartist

NavigatorsMom said:


> Ah, didn't realize that, sorry! (guess I could have looked under your avatar and figured it out! :icon_rolleyes Hope you can find something more locally.


No worries! It's still possible, just a lot more complicated.


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## tim62988

not sure what part of Canada you are from, i know a lot of people from ontario visit the horse trails just north of where I live so you could try some saddles if you ever travel with any of those groups.

my wife & I have a Pandora saddle on order for her

we both have Abetta saddles which we like but hers doesn't fit her new mare that well, you can get abetta saddles with extra thick cushion in the seat one of our friends has it an LOVES it, my wife didn't love me enough when I bought my saddle so I got the standard. obvioiusly with a synthetic saddle the fenders are synthetic so very pliable in all weather conditions.

we tried an aussie saddle and neither of us liked it, it was super comfortable but both of us are around 5'4 and the large flap one couldn't really "feel" the horse 

one of our friends has a tucker endurance saddle, quality is nice looks very nice but i'm spoiled by the abetta (and hate cleaning leather) so personally not for me although the seat is probably more comfortable 

i would also check out craigslist or whatever online thing you have in your area like craigslist to see what you may be able to pick up used, also if there are any larger horse trails or endurance rides in your area visit and ask people about their saddles, look and feel them in person


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## Acadianartist

I'm in New Brunswick tim, so pretty far away from Ontario. 

Craigslist never took off around here. We have Kijiji instead, and I've scoured the whole country but have not found anything like what I really want (except the Tucker I posted above in Quebec, but I was just notified that it's sold). 

Thanks for your comments re: Aussie saddles. My feeling was that I wouldn't like the long flap. 

Going to have a look at what my trimmer has. She bought hers from Nickers saddlery and has had it for 10 years. She highly recommends it.


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## egrogan

Consider this an open invitation to come down here to New Hampshire, where you can go horse shopping (check out the Facebook page "Beginner-safe horses for sale, lease or free in New England") and then swing by Pelham Saddlery to try on a variety of new saddle options with your new horse.


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## Acadianartist

egrogan said:


> Consider this an open invitation to come down here to New Hampshire, where you can go horse shopping (check out the Facebook page "Beginner-safe horses for sale, lease or free in New England") and then swing by Pelham Saddlery to try on a variety of new saddle options with your new horse.


Thanks for the invitation egrogan! But road trips aren't very realistic with two horses in the backyard counting on me daily


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## Chasin Ponies

My old Abetta is just about the ugliest saddle I've ever owned, let alone seen but of the 6 saddles I own, it's the "go to" saddle for comfort. Padded seat, easy to adjust and fits most horses thanks to it's flexibility. My Circle Y might be the prettiest but the old Abetta is the one everyone wants to ride in.


Second best is my inexpensive leather Dressage saddle. It also has a lot of padding and you never get sore riding in it.


Go to the biggest tack store or an equine event like Equine Affaire and sit in a bunch of them. Your butt will thank you later!:biggrin:


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## 6gun Kid

walkinthewalk said:


> The best saddle is the one that fits the horse first, and the rider second, IMO.


 This right here


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## Acadianartist

Chasin Ponies said:


> My old Abetta is just about the ugliest saddle I've ever owned, let alone seen but of the 6 saddles I own, it's the "go to" saddle for comfort. Padded seat, easy to adjust and fits most horses thanks to it's flexibility. My Circle Y might be the prettiest but the old Abetta is the one everyone wants to ride in.
> 
> 
> Second best is my inexpensive leather Dressage saddle. It also has a lot of padding and you never get sore riding in it.
> 
> 
> Go to the biggest tack store or an equine event like Equine Affaire and sit in a bunch of them. Your butt will thank you later!:biggrin:


No big tack stores anywhere near here. There are equine events about twice a year, but the selection of saddles is pretty slim and endurance saddles aren't that common around here, so sadly, while those are excellent suggestions, they're not possible for me.


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## knightrider

The thing I don't care for on my Western saddles is bending back fingernails on the horn when the horse spooks. I've had my fingernail bent backward about 6 times over the years of riding Western. I actually prefer English saddles, but with a spooky horse, the Western is a bit more secure.

I am going to send you a PM.


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## JulieG

I LOVE my Circle Y Mississippi Trail Gaiter. It weighs 22lbs but it's western endurance style. Very comfy/cushy seat but I can still feel what my horse is doing. I put a lot of miles on it and it holds up pretty well so far. it has a rounded skirt which is part of why it's lighter, it also has the stirrups in a nice place for posting the trot..

They're rather expensive new but sometimes you can find them on ebay for cheaper...


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## jaydee

I've always ridden in English saddles, hunted all day, done some long distance riding and trail riding here in them and its what I'm used to so I feel totally safe and comfortable on. I did some riding on western saddles and felt like a fish out of water and so not at all comfortable
I don't like synthetic saddles but some do so won't knock them
My friend does endurance riding in a dressage saddle


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## Avna

Smilie said:


> Depends on what kind of trail riding you do.Far as saddles, a well made western trail saddle , is worlds apart from those cheap synthetic ones, or cheap leather ones
> 
> People that complain about the bulk or the way the stirrups hang, causing problems, esp if you have bad knees, are riding in either old type western saddles or poorly made cheap ones
> I rode for many years, with very bad knees, which now are both replaced, in my balance ride saddle, and I was quite rare to even be riding with knees as bad as that, as I walked like a duck, with bent legs
> A well fitted saddle made on a rawhide tree, is not as completely rigid as one built on a synthetic tree, plus distributes weight better.
> For endurance riding, you travel very light, with pit stops along teh way, so not the same as truly trail riding, which is also not the same as just riding out a bit
> I want awell made saddle, that allows close contact, with that twist , which has those stirrups already hanging correctly. Skirts need to be long enough so that saddle bags can be tied on comfortably, plus strings long enough to add a slicker and warm coat
> Back cinch is a must , on a trail riding saddle, (done up, not dangling ) I also use a breast collar. I also ride with pommel bags, as well as saddle bags


In the Western Vs English on the trail debate, I want to say that it doesn't matter how expensive and well made the western saddle is, if you don't have the right build for one. I never found a western saddle which did not make me feel like I could not move my legs, could not sit far enough forward, could not feel my horse. And I tried out some *very* well-made expensive saddles, saddles that my trainer insisted would be a wonderful riding experience for me, as they were for her. She's six feet tall and lanky. I'm 5'2 with legs that are almost 2" shorter than what is average for that height. Unless you are built like me, you can't understand what saddles might be right for me. 

I gave up trying to find a western trail saddle and went to a dressage type trail saddle. And I could not be happier. I haven't ridden all day in it yet, but I have ridden four hours without a break. I was kinda chafed but I don't think the saddle was to blame. 

There are all kinds of ways to skin a cat.


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## DraftyAiresMum

@Avna, did you try different TYPES of western saddles, other than trail saddles? The only western saddles that I find comfortable are deep-seated: barrel saddles, Wades, and some pleasure/trail/all-around saddles. I've ridden in at least two dozen different western saddles and the majority are uncomfortable for me (5'7" with long legs, for reference), but I've never met a barrel saddle I didn't like. My current saddle is an older Tex Tan Hereford that is ridiculously comfortable. 

Just a curiosity question, really.


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## Avna

DraftyAiresMum said:


> @Avna, did you try different TYPES of western saddles, other than trail saddles? The only western saddles that I find comfortable are deep-seated: barrel saddles, Wades, and some pleasure/trail/all-around saddles. I've ridden in at least two dozen different western saddles and the majority are uncomfortable for me (5'7" with long legs, for reference), but I've never met a barrel saddle I didn't like. My current saddle is an older Tex Tan Hereford that is ridiculously comfortable.
> 
> Just a curiosity question, really.


Wade cutting saddle. Wade trail saddle. I don't know anything about western saddles really but the word McCall was mentioned. 

I tried all kinds of saddles. Besides the western ones I tried an Aussie saddle, two other types of dressage saddle (the kind with the external thigh blocks and straight flaps), and an Abetta jumping saddle. 

I also was hopeless at getting any western saddle on my 14.2 hand horse. I would end up panting with exertion and frustration with all the different straps tangled up on my person and the saddle on the ground. It was ridiculous, needing to have someone else get my saddle on my horse for me. I do not have either upper-body strength or height in my favor. No, I can't lift 45 unwieldy flapping pounds over my head and put it in an exact place. 

So really there was nothing pushing me toward a western saddle except the experts around me who felt that the only way to ride, or to trail ride, or to feel safe on a green horse, was in a western saddle. My experience contradicted them. It took a lot of courage for me to say this is not going to work for me. So I'm kind of touchy about it.

There are so many opinions about the "right" way to do things with horses, but truly, there are plenty of right ways. What makes you happy might make me unhappy and vice versa.


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## Smilie

The best trail saddle is one that works for you and your horse,
My niece came out from Ontario to go on a day ride with me. She took dressage and jumping lessons, thus an english saddle makes her feel more comfortable, as that is what she is used to.
I gave her my Stubbin to use, she put it on Hubby's horse, who has never had an English saddle on him, and we had a great ride. I did carry most of the food and drinks, emergency supplies, spare hoof boot, though!
For me, a western saddle works, but it has to be close contact, with free moving stirrups. Any saddle you can rein on, has to allow you to bring your feet forward as much as you want, when needed
If I rode endurance, competitive trail, I would most likely change to a lighter saddle, more english in design, and played with buying an Aussie saddle at one time, but could not justify it.
Thus there is no one correct answer to this post. All any of us can do, is post what type of saddle we ride in, and why it works for us and our horses.


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## Avna

I can and do carry pommel and cantle bags. I have strings on my saddle to tie on a slicker or sweater. I haven't gone far enough out to justify rear pannier bags but I could fasten them on my saddle. I could put a crupper on my saddle if needed. I had multiple dee rings and a crupper bracket added to my saddle before I bought it. You can have it all if you want it!


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## Smilie

I believe you. You can make things work, and if they don't work make changes.

Carmen has no withers, and flat back, so I have to ride her with a back cinch done up, and abreast collar
We have also made over night trips, to a 'spike camp', from the camp we packed in to.
In that case, we take along a tarp to throw over something (found a depression is not a great place, if it rains over night, LOL )We also tie on sleeping bags, a picket rope for the horses, along with leather leg pickets, an extra heavy coat, a sleeping bag, food, ect






Hubby riding with a pack board, in case he has to pack atrophy sheep back to the end place horses can go-sure glad it is him, not me!




You know what works for you, and where and how you ride!
I can say, though, while I see people on day rides out of a main equestrian staging area, or endurance riders, riding in English saddles, we just don't see any of those, once you get into serious back country-maybe Canadian, eh!


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## Avna

Smilie said:


> I believe you. You can make things work, and if they don't work make changes.
> ....
> You know what works for you, and where and how you ride!
> I can say, though, while I see people on day rides out of a main equestrian staging area, or endurance riders, riding in English saddles, we just don't see any of those, once you get into serious back country-maybe Canadian, eh!


You are most probably right. But I am not riding into serious back country at this point. I think my gear will be fine for base-camp day rides and local trails. If and when I get more badass I may have to reconfigure.


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## ChitChatChet

Avna said:


> I'm 5'2 with legs that are almost 2" shorter than what is average for that height. Unless you are built like me, you can't understand what saddles might be right for me.


Worked at a trail riding place a few weeks ago. 

I saw that western saddles on big horses and that short kids/adults just did not have much for leg contact. English would have made more sense for them.


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## ChitChatChet

Avna said:


> You are most probably right. But I am not riding into serious back country at this point. I think my gear will be fine for base-camp day rides and local trails. If and when I get more badass I may have to reconfigure.



English styled saddles are in use all over the world, very little western styled saddles are used.

My oldest dd started riding in an English saddle to save weight on her pony. She has ridden that saddle in some pretty rugged terrain and had no issues whatsoever.


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## Smilie

ChitChatChet said:


> English styled saddles are in use all over the world, very little western styled saddles are used.
> 
> My oldest dd started riding in an English saddle to save weight on her pony. She has ridden that saddle in some pretty rugged terrain and had no issues whatsoever.


Like I said, I am not trying to convert anyone to any type of saddle, just stated as to why I use a western saddle
FOr me, as I ride where there are no motorized transportation, or other means to bring in supplies, I can carry more on a western saddle, plus I can also drag firewood into camp, using a dally a round my saddle horn, dally the lead rope from a pack horse
Hubby can pack in soft panniers, and if needed, use his riding saddle to pack something, versus needing a pack saddle
I also ride in country where a western saddle is just standard accepted tack
If I rode in some other country, area, I most likely would be using whatever everyone else is
Far as kids, I have taken mine with us into some pretty remote country, ever since they were five years old, snapping a lead line onto my five year old's horse, crossing rivers
Have to admit, when I was ponying my kid across a river, I was sorta glad he had a saddle horn to hang on to!


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## Smilie




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## Smilie

Just as a side note, I never had my kids ride ponies-again, personal choice
My reasons were
a- I could ride those full size horses first and keep them tuned, so no 'pony attitudes.
\there are places we ride, where I just would not feel safe having my kid on a pony, such as crossing a fast flowing river even full grown horses have to work at doing

!


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## Acadianartist

True, out west everyone rides in a Western saddle. Here in the east, we see all sorts. Although the touristy trail riding outfits do use Western saddles, mostly so these beginner riders can hold onto the horn I guess. But endurance riders out here use a variety of saddle types. My trimmer has a treeless. 

DraftyAires - I'm sure barrel saddles are comfortable. However, they are big, heavy and bulky so that rules them out for me. And like Avna, I just do not find most Western saddles comfortable anymore. 

So I'm looking for some sort of hybrid. Have not yet found one I want to buy, but getting closer. DH and I are thinking about crossing the border to Maine on an overnight trip so I may be able to locate a few to try. I'm very reluctant to buy a saddle - especially something a little out of the ordinary which will be impossible to resell - without trying it first.


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## ChitChatChet

Smilie said:


> Just as a side note, I never had my kids ride ponies-again, personal choice
> My reasons were
> a- I could ride those full size horses first and keep them tuned, so no 'pony attitudes.
> \there are places we ride, where I just would not feel safe having my kid on a pony, such as crossing a fast flowing river even full grown horses have to work at doing
> 
> !


Ponies are all we ride for a number of different reasons.

They eat way less.

They take up less room.

We can get them in a lot of places one can't get a typical horse due to their size.

All the same reasons I rode standard donkeys for 20+ years.

And its a lot closer to the ground should a person fall off. LOL


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## Smilie

Well, there you go, we each have our own reasons, depending on our needs.
We have way too much grass, so my concern is in limiting amount my horses eat, thus feed is not a problem,except for management
I can't imagine riding a pony , although I realize it is common to do so, esp in places like Iceland.
My main trail horse, though, is only about 14.2hh.
When I used to ride Einstein on trails, who stood 16.3hh, people always asked me why someone with bad knees would ride such a tall horse
I told them that I needed some mounting advantage at that point of my knees journey in life, regardless size of horse, that he stood beside anything for me to mount, and that once up, I was 'safe'
So, curious, what type of pony do you ride, and how tall?
I can see where you would wish to cut down on all weight, much as possible, even if ponies can carry a lot of weight in relationship to body size


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## Smilie

Acadianartist said:


> True, out west everyone rides in a Western saddle. Here in the east, we see all sorts. Although the touristy trail riding outfits do use Western saddles, mostly so these beginner riders can hold onto the horn I guess. But endurance riders out here use a variety of saddle types. My trimmer has a treeless.
> 
> DraftyAires - I'm sure barrel saddles are comfortable. However, they are big, heavy and bulky so that rules them out for me. And like Avna, I just do not find most Western saddles comfortable anymore.
> 
> So I'm looking for some sort of hybrid. Have not yet found one I want to buy, but getting closer. DH and I are thinking about crossing the border to Maine on an overnight trip so I may be able to locate a few to try. I'm very reluctant to buy a saddle - especially something a little out of the ordinary which will be impossible to resell - without trying it first.


Yes, endurance riders here also ride in english type saddles, but trail riding is not endurance riding, and endurance rides don't take place where one trail rides in the mountains, esp climbing to above the tree line, plus endurance riders need to cover alot of ground fast, but have pit stops where supplies,food ect are available, thus need to carry way less then I do, riding into wilderness, where what you take with you, is what you have!
We have plenty of endurance and competitive rides, but they are more in the foothills, with a vet stop always somewhere ahead!


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## Acadianartist

Good point about having to climb, go through rivers, and pack everything you need for remote areas. 

Since I won't be doing any of that in our relatively (compared to you!) flat terrain, and I don't plan on doing any overnights, I think some kind of hybrid or endurance saddle would do.


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## Smilie

Acadianartist said:


> Good point about having to climb, go through rivers, and pack everything you need for remote areas.
> 
> Since I won't be doing any of that in our relatively (compared to you!) flat terrain, and I don't plan on doing any overnights, I think some kind of hybrid or endurance saddle would do.


True
My friend that borrow;s hubby's horse to go on some day rides with me, in the forestry area, rides in her treeless saddle


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## ChitChatChet

Acadianartist said:


> Good point about having to climb, go through rivers, and pack everything you need for remote areas.
> 
> Since I won't be doing any of that in our relatively (compared to you!) flat terrain, and I don't plan on doing any overnights, I think some kind of hybrid or endurance saddle would do.


You can do all that on the saddles you mention.


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## Prairie

Despite the debate about Western vs English, Endurance, Australian saddles, etc, the best saddle for trail riding is the one that fits both you and your horse and that you both find comfortable. 


Since we live in cowboy country and ride challenging trails for 8+ hours so need to have some extras with us, I normally ride Western....but if there is an opportunity to sail over some deadfall and other natural obstacles, I put on breeches and ride English. Both saddles have fit my butt for many decades and they fit our mare so I'm good either way.


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## Smilie

Prairie said:


> Despite the debate about Western vs English, Endurance, Australian saddles, etc, the best saddle for trail riding is the one that fits both you and your horse and that you both find comfortable.
> 
> 
> Since we live in cowboy country and ride challenging trails for 8+ hours so need to have some extras with us, I normally ride Western....but if there is an opportunity to sail over some deadfall and other natural obstacles, I put on breeches and ride English. Both saddles have fit my butt for many decades and they fit our mare so I'm good either way.


I don't think there has been a debate, as I already said the best saddle is the one that works for you and your horse, doing what you do.
I think most here , myself included, just mentioned why we use the saddle that we do- simple personnal preference,
Can\t hang pack panniers on a saddle without a horn or a back cinch
Dragging firewood to camp, works better for me with a stock saddle,, double rigged, breast collar. 
I can, and do jump logs and other obstacles, if needed, bush wacking, but I don't purposely set out to ride cross country, nor do I ride endurance, where obviously one would want an English type saddle.
All I can say, I have yet to see anyone ride serious trails out west, pack in for hunting, with anything other then a good western saddle. That is not saying it can't be done, if if that works for you-go for it!
I keep my stubbin for mainly show riding, although once in awhile I do ride across local fields with it.
If anyone here would but on breeches, ride in an English saddle out west, they would look as much out of place as someone riding side saddle
I will also admit, that since I ride mainly western, i also have a higher confidence level, should the un expected happen,of staying with my horse
That's just me, and if it is a flaw, so be it!


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## Smilie

Hunting time, we pack in, so all you have for a week or so, is what you pack in. 
Unless you take several pack horses, one pack horse can only carry so much, esp if you take an outfitter tent with collapsible stove
Thus, bed rolls, slickers, picket ropes vet supplies, emergency human supplies, are all on the saddle horse, not to mention the rifle on hubby's horse. Perhaps you can hand a scabbard from an English saddle, but doubt hubby would even consider it!
We then make day rides, starting before dawn. yes, there are periods we stop, tie up the horses, but we still cover a lot of ground, several days in a row, and have ridden back to camp in complete dark
Hacking out, is not the same as trail riding, where I live


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## jaydee

I think there are fairly broad lines between going on a regular trail ride and going on a camping trip and going hunting for game that you're going to have to lug back along with all the gear you need for those things.
Even if we go out all day we don't need to carry enough to worry about where we'd hang it off an English saddle
If I was doing any form of extreme endurance or trail riding then I'd want the lightest saddle I could find that would work for the job to minimize the weight the horse has to carry. If you need something to hang on to on an English saddle and it otherwise fits the bill then use a neck strap or tie a grab strap between the front 'D's 
These guys seem to be coping well enough on extreme terrain, not needing a horn to hang on too and carrying a fair amount of kit on what look to be mostly English or Aussie endurance saddles so I think it really does all come down to what you and the horse find the most comfortable


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## BreezylBeezyl

Barring the debate regarding fit for both horse and rider...

I change saddles depending on what type of terrain I'm going over. If it's just a plain ol' trail, I actually prefer my cutback as the horses I ride are very forward so it lets me sit back and enjoy the ride! Otherwise if I know I'm going up a lot of hills/mountains and over long distances, definitely an Aussie or western. I prefer a really broken in, old western saddle with lots of miles on it, LOL!


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## 3Horses2DogsandaCat

I love my Wintec ProStock Aussie style saddle with English stirrups. I also have a dressage and Western saddle, and the Wintec ProStock is by far my favorite. it is very comfortable and grippy. It is hard for me to imagine falling off with that saddle because it holds me right in place. The adjustable gullet helps it fit many horses.


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## Acadianartist

jaydee - that video got me stressed just looking at it. No wonder they need shoes and/or boots for those horses. I actually find Western saddles a little annoying for going up hills because the horn is in the way. But again, I'm sure plenty of you do it all the time and do not find it problematic. At my height, that horn gets me right in the ribs. 

Anyway, not something I'll ever be doing. I just want an easy trail saddle. Something comfortable, but not too bulky, soft, but solid, well-made, but not too expensive and big enough to add saddle bags to, but not too huge. Also, I'd like a pommel, but no horn and English stirrups. I'm not asking for much am I??? 

As for the comfy old Western saddle, I understand the sentiment, but at my age, I just find they are not made for a small, short person like me. And I find them hard to lift over the horse's back.


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## jaydee

Sorry off track - but my fear of heights would have had me sending the horse up on its own and I'd have followed crawling along on my hands and knees AcadianArtist!!!


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## Smilie

I have agree that whatever saddle anyone find great for what they do, is the right saddle, so I don't know why there is any debate! I just posted why my choice is a western saddle.
Sorry, I don't have pictures or videos of extreme climbs, as I am too busy riding!
I also don't particularity like climbs with huge drop offs, esp the older I get, and what matters most then, is not the saddle but the brains, the sure footingness of your horse , riding a horse that watches where he puts his feet. I have ridden young horses along steep scale slopes, where I am ready to bail on the high side, as that horse frequently lets a foot slide over the edge
Does not matter what saddle you have on then, if you are riding an idiot horse!
Nope, when the trails get tough, steep and frozen, they only way I now will ride them, is on a broke sensible sure footed horse, sharp shod
On another note, if that saddle horn is interfering, you are not sitting correctly. You adjust your body to the slope, stay balanced and out of the way of your horse. Never have a problem with the saddle horn
Already mentioned that for endurance type rides, you would chose a light saddle regardless of terrain. I'm not trying to ride the Tevis cup, just the backcountry, iee true wilderness,, where no pit stop is up and coming, nor will be there, once I reach where \i am going


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## phantomhorse13

Smilie said:


> endurance rides don't take place where one trail rides in the mountains, esp climbing to above the tree line, plus endurance riders need to cover alot of ground fast, but have pit stops where supplies,food ect are available,


Sure they do. And some riders ride 'cavalry' - meaning they carry _everything_ they and their horse need for the entire 100 miles but for water. 



jaydee said:


> I think there are fairly broad lines between going on a regular trail ride and going on a camping trip and going hunting for game that you're going to have to lug back along with all the gear you need for those things.
> Even if we go out all day we don't need to carry enough to worry about where we'd hang it off an English saddle
> ...
> 
> Tevis Cup Riders At CougarRock 2007 - YouTube





jaydee said:


> my fear of heights would have had me sending the horse up on its own and I'd have followed crawling along on my hands and knees



Compared to many other places on the Tevis trail, Cougar Rock was cake for me as a person terrified of heights. You would have had to work to fall OFF the Rock, whereas other places the trail was barely 8 inches wide and the bottom was thousands of feet down! And I would have been in trouble if my saddle had a horn.




















I suspect the OP isn't looking to do Tevis any more than she is looking to hut big game. :wink:

@*Acadianartist* : if you come down to Maine during the Pioneer ride (the second week of August in Fryeburg), I can have an assortment of saddles for you to sit in as there will be tons of different ones there.


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## Acadianartist

Smilie, if I lived where you do and had a chance to ride those trails, you betcha I'd be tagging along and appreciating my Western saddle! Honestly, I envy you. We don't get that kind of scenery around here, although we have our share of nice trails. I just need to build up my confidence and have a safe horse to ride them on. If I did, I could totally see myself riding all day long. That's what I did as a kid/teen. Just me and my horse all day long on trails. I never had anyone to ride with and back then, parents didn't wonder where their kid was all day as long as they weren't under foot. Never wore a helmet and I don't remember packing a lunch, but I did bring snacks. Mostly, I remember laying on my horse's back at night looking at the stars while he grazed in a field. Sorry - I digressed quite a bit there!


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## Acadianartist

phantomhorse13 said:


> Sure they do. And some riders ride 'cavalry' - meaning they carry _everything_ they and their horse need for the entire 100 miles but for water.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compared to many other places on the Tevis trail, Cougar Rock was cake for me as a person terrified of heights. You would have had to work to fall OFF the Rock, whereas other places the trail was barely 8 inches wide and the bottom was thousands of feet down! And I would have been in trouble if my saddle had a horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect the OP isn't looking to do Tevis any more than she is looking to hut big game. :wink:
> 
> @*Acadianartist* : if you come down to Maine during the Pioneer ride (the second week of August in Fryeburg), I can have an assortment of saddles for you to sit in as there will be tons of different ones there.


That would be awesome! Will be in touch if I can make it down. It's more complicated now with my horses in the backyard and I have to arrange for horse-sitting, but I'll definitely look into that.


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## sarahfromsc

Have you looked at a plantation saddle? It is a hybrid type saddle...a little but English, a little bit western


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## Acadianartist

sarahfromsc said:


> Have you looked at a plantation saddle? It is a hybrid type saddle...a little but English, a little bit western


Are plantation saddles very heavy? I see a Tucker on Ebay. Not cheap, but I guess you get what you pay for.


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## jamesqf

Acadianartist said:


> True, out west everyone rides in a Western saddle.


Not true. I've been trail riding with people in English saddles before, and a lot of people use the 'endurance' type rather than full western style.

One benefit of the synthetic saddles - at least the Abetta Endurance model that I have - is that they are 'stickier'. That's according to my (very experienced) friend, who's riding a horse that's been known to crow-hop and buck at the slightest excuse. So much so that she's now riding in my Abetta 'til the one she ordered gets here, while I'm riding in her leather one (that's otherwise very similar to the Abetta).


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## Smilie

Not arguing as to what saddle to use, but I climb steep trails as shown, and a saddle horn is not a problem
We also most likely have to carry more, living where temps are what they are at times, hense also a reason for a stock saddle. Slicker, heavy coat, supplies, extra dry clothes , and, if riding in wilderness, a rifle
I agree it is not the steepness of the climb, but how wide that trail is, and how long the drop off!
I have had two close calls, and one in particular was scary. The trail is a hunting trail, very narrow and very steep , with switchbacks where you are out in the open, and can see the river way, way, down below, hoping to make the next steep climb after that switchback turn, which takes you into trees for awhile, thus some break from nothing, should your horse slip.
I was riding hubbys horse, who fell to his knees with me. Had he scrambled in the least, we would have been over the edge. Instead, he remained kneeling , long enough for me to get off on the cliff side (off side ), then he seemed to assess his situation for a moment, then slowly rock back onto his hind end and push himself up.
If anyone finds an English type saddle to work for them, endurance riding or whatever, then certainly use one.
I am saying for my purpose, I have spent 40 years learning what works, and that is a good western saddle, with a back cinch and breast collar

All this specialization and extreme trail riding, is not really helpful to the OP, who just wants to ride out some, so whatever saddle fits her and her horse, and if lightness is desired, then synthetic, will work
Synthetic saddle are not great when it gets really cold, but again, not applicable to the OP


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## sarahfromsc

Acadianartist said:


> Are plantation saddles very heavy? I see a Tucker on Ebay. Not cheap, but I guess you get what you pay for.


Just doing a quick search on the different saddle makers, average weight looks to be 20 pounds plus or minus.

I use a hybrid saddle and mine weighs 17 pounds.


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## george the mule

Hi AA!

I'll second the endurance saddles; they're light and comfy, and endurance stirrups are simply the best. I have a Crestridge that I like, and a Synergist that I like even better.

The Synergists are not inexpensive saddles, but they're popular, with good resale value. For on-line shopping, it's hard to beat the Synergist "Equimeasure" kit for getting the fit right. Also, if you find a used Synergist that is close, they will rework the fit according to your Equimeasure for a couple hundred dollars. They can also rework the seat to custom fit your butt within reason. Do check their web-site before committing to anything else.

That said, if you have an English saddle that you like, it is probably worthwhile to try a tush-cush on it to see if that makes things better. I like fleece, myself. And as someone mentioned, full-seat breeches make a big difference.

Hope this helps. Steve


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## george the mule

PS:

You can ride anything in the world in an English saddle. It's all about rider balance, not the saddle you're using. I've taken my 17h TB over some pretty rough, steep off-trail terrain in his Passier dressage saddle, and it worked just fine; no problems what-so-ever. For my 61yo backside, the endurance saddle _is_ more comfortable, tho. As always, YMMV. Steve


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## Smilie

I agree that the type of saddle does not limit where you can ride, but there are reasons why some of us chose to ride in an English type saddle, esp if that is the 'familiar saddle for you, or you engage in events like endurance and competitive trail riding
Others like myself, have found for what I do, riding in wilderness, sometimes going on hunting trips, when it can become extremely cold, a good double rigged western saddle works best, and one does have to carry more on that saddle, then if riding in warmer type weather
We all know what works best for us, where we ride and how we ride. Forty years of trail riding, taught me what works for me and my horses, which can be completely different, far as needs of others
I simply won't ride in a synthetic saddle. The saddle has to have long enough skirts, so that fairly large saddle bags stay off the horse, and I can tie on both a slicker and a heavy coat. I like pommel bags, so they go over my saddle horse, and carry stuff easy to reach, like gloves, camera, drink and some snacks, plus bear spray
I don;t carry a rifle scabbard, but hubby does
None of this applies to the Op, as she is neither endurance riding, nor riding into wilderness,, at times on extreme hunting trails, where no one but dedicated sheep hunters ever venture, so just like phantomhorse knows what she requires for her sport, so do I know what I need,eriding in the eastern slope of the Canadain Rockies
But, to say you can carry everything on an English saddle, I gotta add, it depends on where you ride, as no absolutes exist that one can apply with a broad brush
As I said before, for what the OP likes to ride in, where she rides, an English type of synthetic saddle might be best, but not here|


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## Eole

Acadianartist, if you're looking for a light saddle, pommel and no horn, endurance saddles should meet your needs. I'm vertically challenged with short legs (more so than Avna :wink: ). Can't or won't lift heavy saddles over my head. On most saddles, you can use whatever stirrups you want. Until recently, I used regular english stirrups.

My saddle is a Specialized Eurolight. Light, comfy, deep seat, puts me in a dressage position. You can move the leathers' position and saddle can be adjusted to accomodate different horses. Many miles in that saddle and still very happy with it. There are other brands, but that is my experience. I also use an English AP with added rings to hang stuff.


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## george the mule

Spectacular fotos, Smilie!

Steve


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## george the mule

Hi again, Smilie, All!

And as you note, there are trails, and then there are trails.

Here is part of the Siamese Twins trail in The Garden of the Gods, a Colorado Springs city park. I'm carrying a water bottle, my phone/camera, and some peppermints for George 

Apologies to those who have already seen these someotherwhere.

ByeBye! Steve


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## Smilie

Nice pictures, but everyone is travelling ;light; Of course, a lot different climate!\Bet you carry sun screen though!


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## Acadianartist

Loving all the pics! My trails are so boring in comparison! But at this point in my life, I'm totally ok with that. 

Eole - that saddle does look amazingly comfortable, but starting at 1700$, it's more than I can afford to pay right now. Especially for a saddle that I can't try. The more saddles I look at, the more I think it's impossible to make sure the saddle fits the horse without trying it on. Kodak (the mare I'm riding on trails) has an odd sort of shoulder. It goes pretty far back, sticks out a bit, then dips back down. I'll try to get a picture so you see what I mean. Maybe it's not that unusual, but my Arab doesn't have it and the trainer commented on it as well. So the idea of spending a lot of money on a saddle bought online that I can't try on is hugely problematic. 

I've decided to look for a used English synthetic saddle - a dressage model would do for now. It would be good to have one for lessons anyway. And I'll keep watching for opportunities to get a used Abetta or other cheap endurance saddle. Once I go through a few saddles, I'll have a better idea of what fits Kodak and what doesn't. And THEN I'll invest in a 2000$ saddle custom-fitted to her and I. It's just too much money to spend on a saddle that may chafe her and that I may not find comfortable. From what I'm reading, you should really have the opportunity to ride in a saddle for a couple of hours before deciding whether it fits you and your horse. Since that isn't an option for me, I need to be really sure which saddle I want.


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## Acadianartist

You can see what I mean about her shoulder in this pic. If this were your horse and you were trying to find a saddle that will fit her well, what would you look for? I guess my search for a comfortable saddle has shifted from what is comfortable for me to what is comfortable for the horse. Once I figure that out, I can start worrying about my own comfort.

So would you buy a cut back saddle? One for a horse with high withers? One with a short skirt? The English saddles I've put on her so far (two AP and one CC) all seem to squeeze her shoulders.


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## george the mule

Hi AA!

She is out of shape from not being ridden? If so, some of that will probably fill in as she starts back to work. And you have an English saddle now? I would get a Mattes (or similar) "correction" pad that takes foam inserts, and pad the hollows up a bit until she fills in. I wouldn't even think about a new saddle until then.
As it turns out, I _have_ a Mattes fleece pad that isn't being used, and (I think, somewhere) a collection of inserts for it. The only issue with the pad, aside from a bit of fading, is a couple of spots where our mare Mandy got romantic with it and pulled out a couple of tufts of wool. Shouldn't affect it's usability.
You're more than welcome to borrow it for awhile and see if it helps, if you're willing to pay for the shipping. I'll sell it real cheap if you like it.

Steve


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## jaydee

I agree with Steve - she's lacking topline and that will all start to build up and improve the more work you do with her, I would hold off spending too much money on a saddle until she's in better shape and use the type of pad he suggests in the meanwhile


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## ChitChatChet

George the mule, Those are some mighty fine trails you have got to ride on, almost paved!


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## Zexious

Totally agree with what others have said.
Waiting to purchase a custom saddle (as you appear to be!) until she is in better condition is likely a wise choice.


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## Acadianartist

george the mule said:


> Hi AA!
> 
> She is out of shape from not being ridden? If so, some of that will probably fill in as she starts back to work. And you have an English saddle now? I would get a Mattes (or similar) "correction" pad that takes foam inserts, and pad the hollows up a bit until she fills in. I wouldn't even think about a new saddle until then.
> As it turns out, I _have_ a Mattes fleece pad that isn't being used, and (I think, somewhere) a collection of inserts for it. The only issue with the pad, aside from a bit of fading, is a couple of spots where our mare Mandy got romantic with it and pulled out a couple of tufts of wool. Shouldn't affect it's usability.
> You're more than welcome to borrow it for awhile and see if it helps, if you're willing to pay for the shipping. I'll sell it real cheap if you like it.
> 
> Steve


Is this a pad for an English saddle? If so, I'm interested! Feel free to send me a PM and we can work out the details.


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## jamesqf

Smilie said:


> Synthetic saddle are not great when it gets really cold, but again, not applicable to the OP


Just curious as to why synthetic is not good in the cold. I don't ride in real cold myself - for a lot of reasons, like a riding buddy who's a bit of a wuss about cold weather (and hot ) , but mainly because if it's cold, I go skiing - but basically all my (cross-country) ski gear is synthetic.


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## george the mule

Hi AA!

English pad, yes.
I dug the pad out of a pile of stuff in the tackroom. The denuded area is larger than I remember. I still think it could be used as-is, at least to see if it was going to lift the saddle off of Kodak's withers. If I was gonna use it long-term, I would find a scrap of fleece/sheepskin, cut a patch and superglue or carefully stitch it in place. I dropped my tape along the bad spot, but the scale washed out in the foto. It's about 25cm long. Found the assortment of inserts for it, and checked for fit into a "standard" USPS box. No way in a "Medium, but everything goes into the "Large" box in the foto. Not particularly heavy 2 - 3 lb, but bulky. Anyway, you can have it gratis if you want to pay to ship it. Also remember that adding pads makes the "gullet" of the saddle narrower. Here is a link to a very good series on fitting english saddles FYI.
https://schleese.com/fit-tips/
I absolutely have to get to work on my car this afternoon, but I can get the pad to the PO tomorrow or Saturday. Let me know.

Steve <[email protected]> origin zip 80133


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## ChitChatChet

jamesqf said:


> Just curious as to why synthetic is not good in the cold. I don't ride in real cold myself - for a lot of reasons, like a riding buddy who's a bit of a wuss about cold weather (and hot ) , but mainly because if it's cold, I go skiing - but basically all my (cross-country) ski gear is synthetic.


I wonder too.

Leather when its cod sure is stiff. Back when I use to have a well insulated tack shed I kept a light bulb on all winter in it to keep the leather a bit warmer.


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## Acadianartist

george the mule said:


> Hi AA!
> 
> English pad, yes.
> I dug the pad out of a pile of stuff in the tackroom. The denuded area is larger than I remember. I still think it could be used as-is, at least to see if it was going to lift the saddle off of Kodak's withers. If I was gonna use it long-term, I would find a scrap of fleece/sheepskin, cut a patch and superglue or carefully stitch it in place. I dropped my tape along the bad spot, but the scale washed out in the foto. It's about 25cm long. Found the assortment of inserts for it, and checked for fit into a "standard" USPS box. No way in a "Medium, but everything goes into the "Large" box in the foto. Not particularly heavy 2 - 3 lb, but bulky. Anyway, you can have it gratis if you want to pay to ship it. Also remember that adding pads makes the "gullet" of the saddle narrower. Here is a link to a very good series on fitting english saddles FYI.
> https://schleese.com/fit-tips/
> I absolutely have to get to work on my car this afternoon, but I can get the pad to the PO tomorrow or Saturday. Let me know.
> 
> Steve <[email protected]> origin zip 80133


That's awfully kind of you Steve! Yes, I'm happy to pay for shipping! I figure I can patch this up and maybe even use it with my Wintec dressage saddle until we get Kodak in shape and I decide on which endurance saddle I want to invest in! Sending you an email.

And yes, I've watched that video about saddle fitting at least three times when it was Harley's turn  But my problem is that all the saddle fitting tips are for when you are trying the saddle on your horse. I can't do that here because I don't have access to a ton of saddles. There are very few resources for trying to figure out where to start looking for a saddle based on measurements of the horse's back.


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## Woodhaven

I have a synthetic saddle and live in Ontario where it can get very cold in the winter and I have never found it cold to ride in, in fact I find just the opposite as I can feel the warmth from the horse right through it. For me, warmer than a leather saddle.


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## george the mule

Acadianartist said:


> There are very few resources for trying to figure out where to start looking for a saddle based on measurements of the horse's back.


Equimeasure is the only one I have seen. It consists of a sheet of thermoplastic with some alignment marks. The plastic has a very low softening temperature; like 190F IIRC. You place the sheet and support in your oven on Low, and when it softens, you carefully align and mold it to your horses back/withers. After it cools and hardens, you have an exact replica of his back, which can then be used to evaluate fit, and/or construct a saddle that nominally "fits".

Even so, there is really no replacement for putting the saddle on the critter, and riding in it long enough to get sweat-marks on his back; your weight in the saddle will change things a bit, oh yes, so will your balance.

I cringe when I hear people say "Yup, I have me this Billy-Bob-Wingdinger saddle that fits every horse I've tried it on!" Poor goddam*ed horses :-(

Steve


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## jaydee

Billy-Bob-Wingdinger!!!!!!!
Love it
Makes me think of that 'it fits where it touches' reply


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## QHDragon

A dressage saddle may be up your alley. I have a buffalo leather saddle and I stick to it like glue. Bates makes a buffalo dressage saddle that can occasionally be found on eBay for under $1000. Mine is a Classic Saddlery, which are all over the place as far as price, and harder to find. Stay away from the new ones that are made in Argentina by M. Toulouse. The older ones are made in Warsall and are built to last. 

Or a western saddle if you want to go that route. 

I would stay away from Aussie saddles. I have yet to find one that was comfortable, and they are impossible to post the trot in.


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## ChitChatChet

QHDragon said:


> I would stay away from Aussie saddles. I have yet to find one that was comfortable, and they are impossible to post the trot in.


We tried out an Aussie that had a suspended seat. Oh wow that was comfy. Unfortunately, the saddle didn't fit dd's pony.

Haven't ridden in one yet


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## Acadianartist

QHDragon said:


> A dressage saddle may be up your alley. I have a buffalo leather saddle and I stick to it like glue. Bates makes a buffalo dressage saddle that can occasionally be found on eBay for under $1000. Mine is a Classic Saddlery, which are all over the place as far as price, and harder to find. Stay away from the new ones that are made in Argentina by M. Toulouse. The older ones are made in Warsall and are built to last.
> 
> Or a western saddle if you want to go that route.
> 
> I would stay away from Aussie saddles. I have yet to find one that was comfortable, and they are impossible to post the trot in.


I've thought of dressage saddles. They're just a little deeper in the seat, but still quite light. I have a cheap Wintec dressage that I've ridden Kodak in. It's a bit too narrow, but it's quite small so I was more comfortable in it than the close contact saddle. 

The Aussie saddles worry me because of the length of the flaps. I think it's the sort of saddle you really need to try out.


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## Folly

I thought I'd love an Aussie saddle... but when I tried one, it felt to me like I was perched on top of a camel! My mare had a really short straight back though (the foxtrotter I had before my current horse)... so if it had a bit of a hollow to sit in maybe it would be better? Anyway, I got over my desire to own one....


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## Smilie

Far as synthetic, I was always told it would crack in very cold weather, but perhaps that was due to inferior material?
Anyway, while trying to find info, i came across this great article from Equus, that goes into many different trail saddles

A Buyer's Guide To Trail Saddles | EQUUS Magazine

Grew up in Ontario, but never needed a block heater for a car or truck, until I came to Alberta!


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## Smilie

There is this point, concerning a western saddle also, that I have always been told:

'Though a western saddle is often considerably heavier than an English saddle, the tree is designed to spread out the weight of the rider and any equipment the rider may be carrying so that there are fewer pounds per square inch on the horse's back and, when properly fitted, few if any pressure points. Thus, the design, in spite of its weight, can be used for many hours with relatively little discomfort to a properly conditioned horse and rider.'


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## QHDragon

Acadianartist said:


> I've thought of dressage saddles. They're just a little deeper in the seat, but still quite light. I have a cheap Wintec dressage that I've ridden Kodak in. It's a bit too narrow, but it's quite small so I was more comfortable in it than the close contact saddle.
> 
> The Aussie saddles worry me because of the length of the flaps. I think it's the sort of saddle you really need to try out.


Is it the older Wintec, or the newer Wintec (made after 2009)? I will say that the newer Wintec saddles have a very flat base to their seat. From what I understand that makes it more comfortable for women, but I was rather neutral on the change. The twist is wider. I talked to a rep at Rolex a couple of years ago, and they basically said that they had so much demand for a wider tree they basically just spread the tree out, but didn't really compensate in the seat so the twist is wider too. 

A good quality dressage saddle is amazingly comfortable, in my opinion. I feel like I could ride in my saddle all day. 



Folly said:


> I thought I'd love an Aussie saddle... but when I tried one, it felt to me like I was perched on top of a camel! My mare had a really short straight back though (the foxtrotter I had before my current horse)... so if it had a bit of a hollow to sit in maybe it would be better? Anyway, I got over my desire to own one....


I felt super tipped back in the one that I tried. I also hated the knee pads. Maybe it would have been less uncomfortable if I had been on a western pleasure type horse, but on the big TB that I used it on, my thighs were pretty bruised after a several hour ride that included trot and canter. I sold that saddle as fast as I could (and lost a lot money on the deal too). 



Smilie said:


> Far as synthetic, I was always told it would crack in very cold weather, but perhaps that was due to inferior material?
> Anyway, while trying to find info, i came across this great article from Equus, that goes into many different trail saddles
> 
> A Buyer's Guide To Trail Saddles | EQUUS Magazine
> 
> Grew up in Ontario, but never needed a block heater for a car or truck, until I came to Alberta!


It shouldn't, or at least brand name synthetic like Wintec or Big Horn, shouldn't.


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## knightrider

I love Aussie saddles and can find them quite cheaply here in Florida. I've probably owned 8 of them over the years. Some are incredibly comfortable. Some are not so comfortable. Some fit my horses beautifully, some not at all. I've kept two super comfortable Aussies, sold the rest. Just trying one Aussie is about as meaningless as saying you've tried an "English saddle" or a "Western saddle" and didn't like it (or did like it). It's true, they are hard to post in. On the other hand, if you have a horse that spooks big, like I do, they are more secure.


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## jamesqf

Smilie said:


> 'Though a western saddle is often considerably heavier than an English saddle, the tree is designed to spread out the weight of the rider and any equipment the rider may be carrying so that there are fewer pounds per square inch on the horse's back...'


I think that's the point of the endurance-style saddles, though: to reduce the weight by using lighter weight materials and eliminating things like saddle horns*, yet still spread the weight over the same area as a western saddle. After all, few of us are going to be spending our days roping cows and so on. And if for some reason I was, I'd get a saddle built for that - not to mention a horse trained not to spook at the sight of cows** 

*Not to mention the 'bling' you see on a lot of fancier western saddles.

**But she's getting better: last year seeing her first cows started her bucking, a few weeks ago one standing up from behind a log just made her spook, last time out a whole herd just made her a little nervous...


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## Acadianartist

Found a cheap used Abetta I can use temporarily - will also keep it as a good saddle for guests since it has a horn. I don't really want a horn, but it's reassuring for a beginner to have something to hold onto. Seat size and gullet size should work for my mare, and it's supposed to be pretty wide so I can just shim it up with George_the_mule's saddle pad. It's not my dream saddle, but as you all pointed out, Kodak's shape may still change. It is synthetic, lightweight, and will hold me in place much better. And it was so cheap that if it doesn't work out, I can re-sell it. 

In the meantime, I will try to find opportunities to try out other saddles so I can figure out what works best for me and my mare. There seems to be a very wide variety of opinions in here, but enough concensus that I could rule a few things out so that's helpful. But in the end, no matter how much I like a saddle, it won't matter if it doesn't fit Kodak.


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## Folly

knightrider said:


> I love Aussie saddles and can find them quite cheaply here in Florida. I've probably owned 8 of them over the years. Some are incredibly comfortable. Some are not so comfortable. Some fit my horses beautifully, some not at all. I've kept two super comfortable Aussies, sold the rest. Just trying one Aussie is about as meaningless as saying you've tried an "English saddle" or a "Western saddle" and didn't like it (or did like it). It's true, they are hard to post in. On the other hand, if you have a horse that spooks big, like I do, they are more secure.


Agreed - I didn't mean to imply I had any real experience with Aussie saddles. I actually would like to try one on the horse I have now... 

Acadian, I'm glad you picked up an Abetta - Hope it works as a temporary. I'm also exploring endurance saddles and really might seriously consider getting a custom one next year.


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## Acadianartist

I promised I would come back here and let you all know what I ended up getting. Well, here is my Australian saddle with Australian saddle pad! 

The Abetta is fine, but didn't fit Kodak very well, bridging behind her shoulder again. I'm keeping it for Harley, for when we have guests over who are not horsey. They like holding the horn while I lead them around the paddock on Harley. 

As soon as I put the Aussie on Kodak, I knew it fit her perfectly. It just slides in right behind her shoulder like a puzzle piece. Then I got on and knew I had to buy it. It's an Outback, so not a high end saddle, but it's synthetic, therefore lightweight, and someone was selling it locally so I had a rare opportunity to actually try it on. She had ordered it new for her Percheron, but it was too narrow for him. Perfect for Kodak though! And quite reasonably priced. 

I tried Western and English saddle pads with it and had a number of issues like slipping or too much bulk creating instability. I definitely think this Aussie fleece pad does the trick, but would consider investing in a higher end one eventually. It works perfectly for now, but I assume it will eventually compact a little. 

We've done trail rides, trotting and cantering in this saddle and while it puts my legs in a different (better) position, overall, I think it works! As always, I am open to your opinions. Here are some pics!


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## Acadianartist

Getting error messages again... grrr.... trying one pic at a time.


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## Acadianartist

A pic of me on the saddle by my daughter (photographer extraordinaire).


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## Acadianartist

The only picture my daughter took that was not blurry and did not cut off my head or Kodak's head


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## george the mule

Hi AA!

I think those pads/braces/whatever in front of my legs would drive me nuts. But the only person that needs to approve of the saddle is you. Well, you _and_ Kodak, but she appears happy with the situation, and the pad looks quite cushy. Just remember to keep an eye on her back until you get some time and experience with the saddle; this applies to _any_ new saddle.

Just remember; in the end, it's the _doing_ of the thing that's important, not the tools you use. It's great that you have something working for both of you!

On another subject: Are you using the "Drag files here" for attachments? I always use the "MANAGE ATTACHMENTS" page to u/l fotos (available if you select "GO ADVANCED"), and haven't had any problems with it (OS X/Safari). Another option to try, anyway.

ByeBye! Steve


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## Acadianartist

Hi Steve! 

My husband calls those Mickey Mouse ears  I don't even notice them. My legs don't make contact with them at all, but I'm rather glad they are there in case Kodak spooks again. They aren't in the way if that's what you're thinking. 

I am, of course, checking her back after each ride. Sweat stains are even and the heat coming off her back is even as well. No bridging like with the other saddles. Will have the massage therapy girl check for pressure points when she comes back in 3 weeks. 

I still have your pad and am using it with the Abetta saddle on Harley. I have not yet been able to find sheepskin anywhere. Still looking... I'm sure I'll find some somewhere. Thanks so much for sending it to me!

As for the pictures, I'm also using "manage attachments" and do not normally have issues, but last night, the site was giving me problems again. I'm still in Classic mode.


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## Folly

That's great that the Aussie is working for you! Now you have me wanting to try one again... The only one I tried before was on my previous horse (as I'd mentioned)... she had an extremely short, straight back and had an unusual walk. She was a fox trotter - not sure if it was typical of the breed or simply her way of going, but we nick-named her slow walk a 'camel walk'. (Her fast walk and gait were smooth as silk). So anyway, perch an Aussie on top of that, and it was an awkward experience for sure.

My current horse reminds me of the shape of Kodak in some photos you posted earlier somewhere... somewhat narrow shoulders and higher withers (doesn't look bad, but on examination she isn't 'round' up there). Anyway, I was smitten w/ the idea of an Aussie for a while. I do like closer contact, but have never ridden English. Might have to keep my eyes open. I like my Abetta, but I'm not sure now that it is fitting her shoulders perfectly (although I might have been cinching it down a pull too tight). I've switched to my barrel saddle for the moment but it is bulkier, so will try the Abetta next ride looser. I've only started second-guessing after it got hot enough for her to actually work up a real sweat that I can examine under the pad. I would love to get someone with fitting experience to look at the whole rig...

Anyway, hopefully I can have the chance to try an Aussie on this one.


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## Acadianartist

Folly said:


> That's great that the Aussie is working for you! Now you have me wanting to try one again... The only one I tried before was on my previous horse (as I'd mentioned)... she had an extremely short, straight back and had an unusual walk. She was a fox trotter - not sure if it was typical of the breed or simply her way of going, but we nick-named her slow walk a 'camel walk'. (Her fast walk and gait were smooth as silk). So anyway, perch an Aussie on top of that, and it was an awkward experience for sure.
> 
> My current horse reminds me of the shape of Kodak in some photos you posted earlier somewhere... somewhat narrow shoulders and higher withers (doesn't look bad, but on examination she isn't 'round' up there). Anyway, I was smitten w/ the idea of an Aussie for a while. I do like closer contact, but have never ridden English. Might have to keep my eyes open. I like my Abetta, but I'm not sure now that it is fitting her shoulders perfectly (although I might have been cinching it down a pull too tight). I've switched to my barrel saddle for the moment but it is bulkier, so will try the Abetta next ride looser. I've only started second-guessing after it got hot enough for her to actually work up a real sweat that I can examine under the pad. I would love to get someone with fitting experience to look at the whole rig...
> 
> Anyway, hopefully I can have the chance to try an Aussie on this one.


Yes, if you have a chance to try one, do! This was really a purchase of opportunity. I'm sure I could have found an English or a Western saddle that fit her eventually, but someone happened to have an Aussie for sale locally and was willing to let me try it on. That's a rare chance around here so I took it and what do you know, it fit! 

My point is, it matters less what kind of saddle you buy than having a saddle that fits the horse well. If it fits you too, and checks all your boxes, then you have a winner. But I do like that the Aussie has a deeper, more secure seat than an English saddle without the bulk and fenders of a Western. I can even post in it quite comfortably.


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## its lbs not miles

Acadianartist said:


> I'd love to hear your recommendations on a good trail saddle. I bought a QH mare recently and have been riding her in my daughter's close contact jumping saddle (an Excelle Access) which is really slippery. I'm using it because it's the only saddle I have that fits the horse. I don't mind riding in it, but I came off twice last Monday when she spooked and someone suggested I get a saddle with a little more support.
> 
> My goal with her is to trail ride. I won't likely do any endurance riding, but comfort is really important to me. I'm a small (and short) person so it needs to be lightweight. I used to ride Western, but now hate the bulkiness and weight of Western saddles, which is why I switched to English. I also have bad knees and the Western fenders kill them so I really want English stirrups. I'd like the ability to attach decent-sized saddle bags to the saddle. And I don't want to pay a fortune (synthetic is good).
> 
> I will never show and really don't give a hoot what I look like. It's all about comfort and functionality.
> 
> Someone suggested an Abetta saddle so that's something I'm considering, but it has the Western fenders. I looked at some Australian saddles and am curious about them. Whatever I get, I will probably have to purchase online, so I'd rather make sure it will work.
> 
> Thoughts?


Way too many posts here for me to wade through so I'm sorry if I'm repeating any of them.
1. Yes, the number one priority is the comfort of the horse. It is their back that's carrying the weight so the saddle needs to BOTH fit right and displace the weight over the largest possible area (so tree fit and size are both important). Those points are constant.

2. What is most comfortable for me and 3 other riders might not be for you and 9 other riders. e.g. my stock saddle (Australian saddle...and it was the real thing, not some foreign knockoff ), which many people swear by, was great for starting new horses (hard to put the rider off), but if I rode out on it I would find it comfortable for about 2 hours. After 3 hours my back would be hurting. After 4 hours I would be in real pain. Moral of the story, dressage seats and my back don't work for continuous hours of riding (stock saddles generally have dressage seats). Until this year the best saddle I've found for long hours of riding was the UP saddle (civilian version is a the Trooper), but mine stopped fitting my horses properly last year so I order two custom endurance saddles. And while I would like to have gotten Troopers again (very light and wonderful saddles) I must confess that Randy made the best fitting saddles I've every had.. So much so that both my horses performance are better now then they've ever been and I can spend 8 hours in the saddle without feeling like a need a week to recover.

Keep in mind that what most people think are well fitting saddles generally are not. They don't ride enough really notice (thankfully) . Remember that even if you have a saddle that fits your horse perfectly (you can ride 100 miles a week every week) now it eventually will no longer fit properly and will need replacing. My horses are 8 and 9 years old and are on their second set of saddles (but their backs take the same tree so it's just the withers height that is different).

So after all that )....my advice to you is to find the seat that is comfortable for to sit in and ride for 8 hours. Then get a saddle that fits your horse properly and has that seat.

Condensed history lesson on saddles. The "English" (which isn't English) saddle was developed to give Cav more mobility (jumping, etc.) in battle, but the Europeans discovered that it was not well suited for the horse during long campaigns (back issues left most mounts unfit for duty). The English eventually developed the Universal Pattern (UP) saddle that allowed for the mobility and displaced more weight (was also easier to alter on campaign to fit a new horse, but that's a different story). Moral of the story is that a properly fitting saddle with the greatest weight displacement gives the best results with the horse. That's why no nation went to treeless saddles (although most major nations did experiment with them, but they left the back sore even quicker). Having no tree means the weight isn't really displaced beyond where you butt is on the horse (although it does keep the pressure of the bone from pressing on the back so it is better than bareback) ))))))).


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## Acadianartist

Thanks for that it's lbs... you don't have to wade through all the posts to answer the basic questions. 

So first, I was not familiar with the concept of the UP saddle. Very interesting. 

Second, I will probably never do 8 hours of riding. Well, unlikely, anyway. 4 hours, yes. My Aussie shows signs of leaving my inner thighs sore (this happens with some bigger Western saddles too), and I tire quickly if I'm posting a lot - but that's partly me being so unfit. I'm not overly concerned for the time being because my back seems ok, and that's become an issue of late, so I have to watch it. This saddle does not seem to put me in a bad position for my back, so I am grateful for that. My ouchy inner thighs and stretched out muscles can recover and toughen up. And I continue to feel the Aussie fits the horse well, allowing for a good range of movement (compared to all the other saddles I have tried) and leaving even sweat stains throughout the back (no bridging which every other saddle did). 

As for trying a saddle and riding in it for 8 hours, that's rather complicated here because I am in a rural area of Canada. There is one tack store with two saddles in it. Anything else has to be ordered and shipped in. Few places will allow a trial, but even if they do, it's a shot in the dark and I'm on the hook for shipping back and forth. I would love to have a custom saddle made to fit me and my horse, but for now, I feel the Aussie is working and it was cheap enough that I won't feel bad replacing it in a few years. 

We are working with an equine massage and physiotherapist to see if we can deal with some of her flexibility issues and get a better idea on what would be an ideal saddle for her. 

Thanks for the thoughts on the treeless too! My trimmer swears by hers, but I have my doubts.


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## Folly

Hi Acadian - well, I am now finding that the Abetta that I really like for myself doesn't fit my mare so well after all. It leaves dry spots. It wasn't really apparent during cooler weather, and my rides aren't long (typically an hour to 1.5), so it just started being obvious as it got hotter out. I switched to my leather barrel saddle a few weeks ago and it fits her better, but I don't like the bulk as much. Soooo I'm getting intrigued again by the Aussie saddles. My horse seems to be built a lot like Kodak - she also is a pretty girl, but her shoulders are narrow (compared to my friend's other horses) and withers are slightly high, with a bit of a scoop back. Nothing far out of the norm, but apparently enough. You may have said, but I missed it - what type of Aussie saddle did you get? I think you said it is synthetic?


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## Folly

Just went back and looked at your photos... is it this one by chance? Thanks!


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## Acadianartist

Maybe? All I know is that it's a Down Under (but I think Kimberley is their low end synthetic saddle). Looks similar, but the cantle is not quite so upright on mine. And it has metal stirrups, but perhaps the previous owner put those on. Also looks like there's fleece under this one. Mine has a different kind of padding underneath. But who knows, maybe mine is an older model.


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## Acadianartist

Folly said:


> Hi Acadian - well, I am now finding that the Abetta that I really like for myself doesn't fit my mare so well after all. It leaves dry spots. It wasn't really apparent during cooler weather, and my rides aren't long (typically an hour to 1.5), so it just started being obvious as it got hotter out. I switched to my leather barrel saddle a few weeks ago and it fits her better, but I don't like the bulk as much. Soooo I'm getting intrigued again by the Aussie saddles. My horse seems to be built a lot like Kodak - she also is a pretty girl, but her shoulders are narrow (compared to my friend's other horses) and withers are slightly high, with a bit of a scoop back. Nothing far out of the norm, but apparently enough. You may have said, but I missed it - what type of Aussie saddle did you get? I think you said it is synthetic?


It might be the Kimberley, not really sure since I bought it used. 

I had the same problem with the Abetta. Major bridging behind the shoulder. I kept it for my Arab because sometimes (like this past weekend) we get a bunch of kids who want to ride the horses. I like to put it on Harley so these total beginner kids have something to hold onto and it fits him ok. For 200$, I figure I might as well just keep it.


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## Folly

I still would love to invest in a custom something one of these days... would like the chance to try a nice endurance saddle, but I don't know anyone around here who rides in one. Probably would be next year before I'm ready. I'm kind of experimenting right now - since I'm not a big person and the fact I'm not getting younger I'm wanting to stay light weight. 

The Abetta worked well on my previous horse (though the previous horse didn't work out so well for me....!), and it also seems to fit the 'borrowed' horses I rode (rounder shoulders) when I was between horses. So I was hoping it would work for Kota since I find it comfortable and secure, and love the light weight. But sadly, no.


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## ChitChatChet

My dd just bought a lightly used Abetta saddle for her pony. She has always ridden him in a western. In an effort to save weight she switched to an English till she could find a light weight western styled saddle. The gal she had bought it from used it for her endurance riding

So far it looks like it fits him well. Will be interesting to check after she can take him for a longer ride.


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## Acadianartist

Folly - I do like my Aussie for now (rode in it again tonight and again, I love how it feels to go up and down steep inclines - really holds you in place and I find myself sitting very deep in it). However, before I can recommend to anyone that they should buy one similar to it, I'd add that I don't know if it will have much durability. It was meant as a short term solution to a fitting problem. But it may fall apart in a year or two, who knows. You'd be better off talking to someone who has actually had one of these for a number of years.

That said, if and when it does fall apart, I would absolutely consider another Aussie - only a higher end model that will last longer. Though I have to say, when I got drenched in soaking rain the other day, it was nice not to have to worry about the saddle getting ruined. I didn't even bother to wipe it dry - just put it on the saddle rack! And like you, I'm short and not a huge person so lifting a saddle over my head that weighs a lot is out of the question. For all those reasons, I'd consider another one. But ask me again in about 4 years


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## Folly

Acadian - It would be a short term solution for me as well. I ride in a small saddle size (14" Western), so it's really hard to find a variety of saddles to try. We have a big saddlery nearby, but not much in 'my' size - and mostly leather western. I've said before, I admire the nice leather saddles - they are just 'out of proportion' for me. So I've set my priorities. Barrel saddles seem common in my size - probably because of youth/teen barrel racers. So I picked mine up used and it works OK. I just like less bulk due to scale. 

Though it's vital to me for a saddle to fit my horse, having FINALLY ridden in saddles that fit ME I don't think I can ever go back. Anything too big puts me in a chair seat which I never realized until having the luxury of trying the correct size. 

Anyway, like you, my local selection is limited for what I'm wanting - so I don't mind experimenting w/ less expensive options to see what I really like (the Abetta has served that purpose well). I'm not too concerned with long term durability, and if I find a style I like I would certainly upgrade later. I enjoy and am willing to pay for quality, but I don't like wasting money. I finally have my "quality" horse (love her!), and I'm enjoying customizing 'our' tack.


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## Acadianartist

Yup, kinda sounds like we're in the same boat Folly! In that case, I'd say you could try one of those cheap Aussies. Ideally, they'd let you try it on the horse and return it if it really doesn't fit at all. I've had some saddleries let me do that, but they say NOT to sit in it and asked me to put a pillow case on the horse before putting the saddle on his back. The better ones have actually let me ride in the saddle - but those were used. Probably not so worried about wear and tear. 

Good luck in your search and let me know what you end up getting!


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## tim62988

folly do you know what tree your abetta is built on? you may be able to stick with an abetta and just get a more properly sized tree for your new horse.

i rode in my wife's Pandora saddle on saturday, did 9 miles and must say it was a good ride but that is about the price of 2 new abettas lol, if you want more info on them let me know and i'll make a separate topic


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## Jessabel99

I had an Aussie for years and hated it. It was heavy and I didn't like the way it forced me into a chair seat. They're also really hard to fit on some horses.

I finally bit the bullet and bought a Circle Y, and holy crap, it's like the Louis Vuitton of saddles. I paid a small fortune and a spare kidney for it, but the difference in comfort and quality is amazing. Like you, I wanted something more English-y, but this saddle is comfy on long trail rides and really not that heavy for an all-leather western saddle. And it was used, so the leather was soft and perfectly broken-in, which I think makes a difference in comfort, especially with the fenders. 

My best advice is to save some money up and go to a shop with a professional fitter. You'll get exactly what you want the first time and have a saddle that you'll be happy with forever.


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## Zexious

People still trust new saddles with $200 price tags? o,o
I think I may have missed something between my last post and now...


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## CaliforniaDreaming

tim62988 said:


> folly do you know what tree your abetta is built on? you may be able to stick with an abetta and just get a more properly sized tree for your new horse.


Agreed! I've had 3 tree sizes in the Abetta and my current one (with an Arab tree) fits my Haflinger the best. The semi-QH tree was too narrow, the full QH too wide (FQHB for when he's chubby, but not when he gets fit and drops down to an idea weight.)

I like my Abetta because I pulled the fenders off and went to english leathers with sheepskin covers. Added in centerfire billets so I can use an English buckle girth and it's pretty awesome for trails that we've done. Having a good pad helps too, and I have a crupper and breastcollar as well. 

I'd love to try a Specialized or a Pandora. But my bank account doesn't get any bigger no matter how many times I stare at it.


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## Folly

tim62988 said:


> folly do you know what tree your abetta is built on? you may be able to stick with an abetta and just get a more properly sized tree for your new horse.
> 
> i rode in my wife's Pandora saddle on saturday, did 9 miles and must say it was a good ride but that is about the price of 2 new abettas lol, if you want more info on them let me know and i'll make a separate topic


My Abetta has Semi-QH tree.... I would have expected that to fit her perfectly since she isn't a huge muscular qh. She's 14.3hh, and a slimmer build than some. It 'looks' fine and she doesn't object, but it does have those bothersome dry spots at the 'front' of the tree when she works up a sweat whereas my barrel saddle leaves a very even pattern. (I don't know the tree size of the barrel saddle, because I bought it used expecting it to be very temporary). She happily rides along in either one it seems, but maybe she is just really tolerant. She doesn't have white spots on the shoulders or any signs of being ridden in ill-fitting saddles in the past.

Oh my goodness! I've never seen anything like those Pandora's! Wow  I'd love to try one actually - that would get everyone rubber-necking on trail rides around here!


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## jamesqf

Zexious said:


> People still trust new saddles with $200 price tags? o,o.


Well, it just seems kinda strange to pay more for the saddle than the horse


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## tim62988

jamesqf said:


> Well, it just seems kinda strange to pay more for the saddle than the horse


thats part of why I got an abetta vs something else: i forget if i paid 8 or 900 for my mare but my wife said "can't buy a saddle that is more expensive than the horse"

I think she must have remembered that when she bought her current horse :-( $2500 horse and $1200 saddle lol


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## Acadianartist

Jessabel99 said:


> My best advice is to save some money up and go to a shop with a professional fitter. You'll get exactly what you want the first time and have a saddle that you'll be happy with forever.


See, that only works if there is such a thing within a reasonable distance from where you live. For me, there isn't. I have to shop online, pay shipping, etc. No professional saddle fitter from any of those expensive custom saddle companies is going to travel to where I live to measure my horse. And I am reluctant to pay a fortune for something I buy online, which I've never even seen in person. How do I know I'll find it comfortable? Even with all the measuring in the world, there's no guarantee there won't be pressure points. 

I had an opportunity to try on a slightly used Aussie saddle that was being sold locally. I didn't actually think I'd buy it, but figured I had nothing to lose in trying it on since I was trying on all the saddles I could get my hands on. Lo and behold, it actually fit her! Unlike all the others, this saddle leaves no dry spots, no pressure points, no white hairs on my horse. She moves better when she's wearing it than any other saddle, including my more expensive English saddles. It's light because it's synthetic and I like that it weighs very little and is easy to clean. I don't want a Western saddle, but I do want something that keeps me in place. My Aussie saddle offers me all that. It's more comfortable for me and for my horse than any other saddle I've tried on her. Maybe someday I'll have the opportunity to buy a high end saddle that also fits her well, but surely you can understand why I'd be loathe to throw thousands of dollars at a saddle bought online which I can't try on. It's all well and good to talk about professional saddle fitters, but in some more rural areas, it's not always possible.


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## Zexious

@jamesqf -- I couldn't disagree more c:
My gelding, Gator, was gifted to me by my trainer. I purchased him an $800 used saddle that retailed for $2,000.

EDIT -- OP, doesn't your daughter compete? Are there not saddle reps at the shows you attend?


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## Rain Shadow

Jessabel99 said:


> I had an Aussie for years and hated it. It was heavy and I didn't like the way it forced me into a chair seat. They're also really hard to fit on some horses.
> 
> I finally bit the bullet and bought a Circle Y, and holy crap, it's like the Louis Vuitton of saddles. I paid a small fortune and a spare kidney for it, but the difference in comfort and quality is amazing. Like you, I wanted something more English-y, but this saddle is comfy on long trail rides and really not that heavy for an all-leather western saddle. And it was used, so the leather was soft and perfectly broken-in, which I think makes a difference in comfort, especially with the fenders.
> 
> My best advice is to save some money up and go to a shop with a professional fitter. You'll get exactly what you want the first time and have a saddle that you'll be happy with forever.



Am I the only person who finds Circle Y's really uncomfortable? I've tried quite a few and I just don't like the wide twist and I feel perched in the trail models.


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## Acadianartist

Zexious said:


> @jamesqf -- I couldn't disagree more c:
> My gelding, Gator, was gifted to me by my trainer. I purchased him an $800 used saddle that retailed for $2,000.
> 
> EDIT -- OP, doesn't your daughter compete? Are there not saddle reps at the shows you attend?


No, no saddle reps at shows. Never even heard of such a thing. Again, we live in a rural area of Canada. We travel up to two hours for shows, but even those are pretty small scale. 

Also, this is my trail saddle - my daughter would never compete in it! She rides in a Wintec AP. We bought it on the advice of her coach who likes the Wintecs. We also have an Exselle Axcess CC, but the coach says it puts her legs in a bad position. And I trust her because she is the only certified coach in the entire area where we live. There are others, but they're not certified. Our coach travels to all the other barns to evaluate kids for their rider levels because she's the only one who can do so. I do appreciate you trying to help Zexious, just trying to give you an idea of the context here. 

I did drive two and a half hours to a tack shop where there is a better selection of saddles, but after trying three (you can calculate the number of hours spent driving back and forth) and finding none of them even came close to fitting, I gave up. I think their saddles are junk, honestly. 

So all I can do is watch the local used saddle market or shop online. Anything coming from the US costs nearly twice the amount you would pay because of the conversion in the dollar, the taxes and duty, and shipping, and usually I can't return to the US.


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## george the mule

jamesqf said:


> Well, it just seems kinda strange to pay more for the saddle than the horse


Hi All!

I'm afraid I don't see any connection whatsoever between the cost of a saddle, and the cost/value/otherwise of the animal who will be wearing it:

The saddle needs to provide a comfortable fit to the equines back if he's going to be ridden in it. Period. A "free" rescue horse deserves the same consideration in this regard as a $20,000 Friesian, don't you think?

In any event, the true "cost" of a horse is in long-term expenses, not the cost of acquisition. Similarly, the initial "cost" of a saddle is, presumably, related to the quality of the components that go into it, and to the skill and care employed in it's manufacture. How much this affects it's long-term "value", i.e. the function of fitting the horse, is highly variable, and needs to be determined on a case by case basis, and re-evaluated periodically.

I would argue that a $200 saddle that fits him properly is of more value To The Horse than a $4,000 one that pinches his withers.

My $.02 Steve


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## ChitChatChet

jamesqf said:


> Well, it just seems kinda strange to pay more for the saddle than the horse


All but one of our ponies are free or borrowed. The pony was sold to us because they didn't want us to have him.

We have 2 free saddles, one borrowed, one was $25, the most we have paid for $150.

Its called patience. We just wait for the right saddle to come along at the right price


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## its lbs not miles

ChitChatChet said:


> English styled saddles are in use all over the world, very little western styled saddles are used.
> 
> My oldest dd started riding in an English saddle to save weight on her pony. She has ridden that saddle in some pretty rugged terrain and had no issues whatsoever.


I'll stay with the term "English" saddle for ease of use even though most of the world will refer to one by the riding discipline it's intended for (jumping dressage, etc...) since they are different.

While the "English style" saddle can be found all over the world it's only because equine competition on the world stage requires uniformity. Just as when people shoot competitively on the world stage they are using similar calibers. If you look at most of the saddles used across the world you'll find that outside of parts of Europe (some, like those on the Iberian peninsula still use a more Western style tree) and parts of the English speaking world, most of the wide variety of saddles used around the world have trees which have more in common with the "Western" style (like "English" I'm using "Western" as a simple means of very generalized identification). 

In fact, the English speaking world's militaries dumped the "English" style saddle by the mid 1800's because it is very poorly designed for the demands of long, hard riding done on campaigns. Campaigning with that tree style left massive numbers of horses unfit for duty due to back issues. The US went to the McClellan (had to be because it was cheaper to make), and the rest of the "Empire" switched to the UP. Both have trees more in common with the Western saddle for the purpose of weight displacement (which most of the worlds saddle designs have in common). While there were still a significant number of unfit horses due to back issues after the changes, the % of unfit horses was reduced.

All the weight displacement in the world won't make up for a painful fit and the military didn't take the time to fit each and every horse individually, but that was true when they used English style saddles too so the comparison remains the same.

Not that any of this should matter for 99.9% of the riders since they won't ride that far for that long  (it was just to point out that "English" style tree is not the most common tree used world wide and for a good reason). For that 99.9% what should matter is that the horse is comfortable when being ridden and not sore when it's all over (be it a day, week, month or year  ) and that the rider is comfortable too.

Most people in the US and parts of the old "British Empire" who started riding before the 70's (and possibly later), if not riding for some from of "English" show, had good odds of riding on an old McClellan or UP saddle since there was a massive glut of them around. The militaries having made millions of them. People still ride the UP style (AKA the Trooper).


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## tim62988

Acadianartist said:


> See, that only works if there is such a thing within a reasonable distance from where you live. For me, there isn't. I have to shop online, pay shipping, etc. No professional saddle fitter from any of those expensive custom saddle companies is going to travel to where I live to measure my horse. And I am reluctant to pay a fortune for something I buy online, which I've never even seen in person. How do I know I'll find it comfortable? Even with all the measuring in the world, there's no guarantee there won't be pressure points.
> 
> I had an opportunity to try on a slightly used Aussie saddle that was being sold locally. I didn't actually think I'd buy it, but figured I had nothing to lose in trying it on since I was trying on all the saddles I could get my hands on. Lo and behold, it actually fit her! Unlike all the others, this saddle leaves no dry spots, no pressure points, no white hairs on my horse. She moves better when she's wearing it than any other saddle, including my more expensive English saddles. It's light because it's synthetic and I like that it weighs very little and is easy to clean. I don't want a Western saddle, but I do want something that keeps me in place. My Aussie saddle offers me all that. It's more comfortable for me and for my horse than any other saddle I've tried on her. Maybe someday I'll have the opportunity to buy a high end saddle that also fits her well, but surely you can understand why I'd be loathe to throw thousands of dollars at a saddle bought online which I can't try on. It's all well and good to talk about professional saddle fitters, but in some more rural areas, it's not always possible.



i feel for you 100% when I first got my horse I thought I wanted a tucker saddle as we see a lot on the trails, they look comfortable but the price tag was a no-go. bought an abetta since we KNEW it would fit my mare being the exact same as my wife's saddle and I must say the weight & synthetic make it worth more than a tucker to me.

I really like my wife's new saddle but that was over $1,000 and I haven't put enough miles on it myself to say "I want to change from my abetta to the pandora" so even if you have the chance weigh it out because you may find you aren't going to gain a lot from something fancier for what you are after


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## Jessabel99

Rain Shadow said:


> Am I the only person who finds Circle Y's really uncomfortable? I've tried quite a few and I just don't like the wide twist and I feel perched in the trail models.


I don't know, I've only sat in a few of them, but mine is a close contact-type model. It doesn't feel like a hard chunk of leather at all. There are a lot of western saddles that I've absolutely hated, but I could sit in this one all day. What's a wide twist?


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## Saddlescamp

*I ride a Hamley western and have for 24 years*

My Hamley was built in 1946 according to the companies records. It is the most comfortable saddle I have ever sat on. It has a 15 and half inch seat and the cantle is not so high that you get smacked in the middle of the rump when horse does the spook dance. Now you say that the western saddle fenders cause discomfort to your knees. Well you need to get the stirrup leathers turned so that the stirrups are always facing front. You can do this by removing the stirrups and soaking the bottom 8 -10 inches of the leather in water. Let them soak a couple of days to make the leather soft and pliant. Then reinstall the stirrups, put your saddle on a rack and twist the stirrups to face forward and run a broom handle through them from one side to the other. The leather will dry and hold the shape you just made. This is the simplest way to fix the problem and very comfortable thereafter. Hope this helps you. Any questions please ask, and yes I like western style of saddles, no doubt.


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## Acadianartist

Saddlescamp said:


> My Hamley was built in 1946 according to the companies records. It is the most comfortable saddle I have ever sat on. It has a 15 and half inch seat and the cantle is not so high that you get smacked in the middle of the rump when horse does the spook dance. Now you say that the western saddle fenders cause discomfort to your knees. Well you need to get the stirrup leathers turned so that the stirrups are always facing front. You can do this by removing the stirrups and soaking the bottom 8 -10 inches of the leather in water. Let them soak a couple of days to make the leather soft and pliant. Then reinstall the stirrups, put your saddle on a rack and twist the stirrups to face forward and run a broom handle through them from one side to the other. The leather will dry and hold the shape you just made. This is the simplest way to fix the problem and very comfortable thereafter. Hope this helps you. Any questions please ask, and yes I like western style of saddles, no doubt.


See, I think the simplest way to fix the problem is NOT to have Western fenders! Which is why I ride in an English or Aussie  Why would I buy something I have to "fix"? It's fine if you're a fan of Western saddles and really want to ride in one, but I am not. I have no need for a horn and find they can get in the way. I don't like how big and bulky they are. It's hard for me to lift them up over the horse's back, even when they're not heavy because the large stirrup fenders dangle and get caught and I have to hold it way up over my head because I'm very short. I rode Western when I was young and most of the time, just rode bareback because the darn thing was too big and heavy to lug around. The Aussie gives me the secure seat I wanted without the Western bulk or fenders. It's easy for me to put it on my horse. She likes it, I like it... works for us!


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## 6gun Kid

Saddlescamp said:


> My Hamley was built in 1946 according to the companies records. .


 I would love to own a Hamley saddle, but the one I want is $4200.00. So, unless I hit the lotto that will have to remain a dream!


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## Saddlescamp

There you go, an Aussie suits your needs. Have rode a few miles in one, not bad. Did feel like it pushed me forward in the seat but that could have just been me. See we all are different and have different needs. Sounds like you have a solution that fits you. Good enough.


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## Saddlescamp

Yeah I got real lucky, found mine in Fallbrook, CA in 1992 at a saddle shop. I had taken my wifes Keyston in for repair and found mine. $500 and I had me a used but not abused Hamley.


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## Acadianartist

Just popped in to say my Aussie saddle just saved my butt. Again. Kodak spooked very badly at a clanging gate. She's been jumpy all day. I took her off a calming supplement, thinking it was having no effect. She's back on it. 

She leapt into this full blown gallop so fast I didn't know what was happening. I know I would have been left behind (she went straight forward this time) if I had been riding in my slick close contact English saddle, or even my equisuede seat Wintec. Was super grateful that the saddle kept me on so we were able to go on with our ride. She eventually settled down and I did some trotting with her until she relaxed. After the ride I massaged her back and neck and she REALLY relaxed. Now if someone could just massage my back and neck...


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## Acadianartist

Also, the things in the front - I forget what they're called, my husband calls them mouse ears - have actually been very useful in helping me improve my posting. I tend to come out of the saddle too far (so says my coach) and if I do that, my leg will touch them. So then I know to sit back further and not make such an exaggerated motion. Normally, my leg would not touch them at all so I know that if I'm hitting them, I'm too far forward.


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## phantomhorse13

Acadianartist said:


> Also, the things in the front - I forget what they're called


Those are poleys.

Glad you are enjoying the saddle so much!


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## Acadianartist

phantomhorse13 said:


> Those are poleys.
> 
> Glad you are enjoying the saddle so much!


Thank you! I should know that as a recent Aussie convert!


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## 3Horses2DogsandaCat

Acadianartist said:


> Also, the things in the front - I forget what they're called, my husband calls them mouse ears - have actually been very useful in helping me improve my posting. I tend to come out of the saddle too far (so says my coach) and if I do that, my leg will touch them. So then I know to sit back further and not make such an exaggerated motion. Normally, my leg would not touch them at all so I know that if I'm hitting them, I'm too far forward.


I noticed the same thing this weekend when I was riding my bouncy Haflinger. I'm not generally a "big poster," but his motion really throws me forward so the poleys are very helpful.


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## george the mule

Hi AA, 3Horses, All:

Not exactly on-topic, but if posting a trot is tossing you forward, try letting your stirrups down a notch. I like mine set to where my butt just comes out of the saddle when I post. Might help, might not, but easy enough to try.
And (I struggle with this one, too) Use Your Thighs. Kick off the stirrups and post using just leg pressure. It hurts, but it will improve your form. This from my off-and-on Dressage instructor. (Who loves torture 

Steve


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## Acadianartist

george the mule said:


> Hi AA, 3Horses, All:
> 
> Not exactly on-topic, but if posting a trot is tossing you forward, try letting your stirrups down a notch. I like mine set to where my butt just comes out of the saddle when I post. Might help, might not, but easy enough to try.
> And (I struggle with this one, too) Use Your Thighs. Kick off the stirrups and post using just leg pressure. It hurts, but it will improve your form. This from my off-and-on Dressage instructor. (Who loves torture
> 
> Steve


My stirrups are already way, way down  Any further and my short legs will not be able to reach! And yes, I've been made to post stirrup-less, but am nervous about doing so on Kodak since she's so spooky. My coach also used to make me post with only one foot in a stirrup, which is almost worse because you're off balance.


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## Acadianartist

Just wanted to say that my equine massage therapist/saddle fitter said Kodak's back looks great and her saddle fits pretty well. Not perfectly, but she advised me not to buy another saddle for a while. We are seeing Kodak's top line develop a little so the hollow behind her shoulder isn't so pronounced. She felt the saddle was not causing any sore spots or back problems, but fears that as Kodak bulks up a little more, it may not be wide enough so down the road, I may want to replace it, but not yet. That seems like good advice to me so that's what I'll do. Sorry, did not think to bring my camera to the barn so no pics... maybe when I ride her tomorrow!

She also noticed Kodak is doing a lot better with her mobility and while there are still some nasty knots in her neck, she is much looser than when she first saw her so the massaging and exercises are helping. She said she was actually surprised that Kodak is doing this well. I couldn't be happier, of course. I also told her about the runny stool Kodak's been experiencing and she advised me to cut the probiotic by half. We use the same brand (the main one available locally) and she has seen a lot of horses get runny stool from the full dose. I have cut down to half starting tonight so we'll see if that helps.


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## carshon

Fantastic update~! Doesn't it frustrate you to know that just when you have hit some good rides and everything seems to be falling in place that the riding season is coming to an end? I am feeling that now - my new horse and I are hitting a really pleasant groove and I am counting down the days until it is too cold, wet or icy to ride. I love Fall but it always bring winter which makes me sad.


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## Acadianartist

Agreed carshon. I read something in class today that started out with "It was a Sunday in Autumn..." I don't think there's a sadder way to set the atmosphere. Those of us who live in northern climates know that fall feels like a very long, bittersweet Sunday that rivals that feeling we had as kids on the weekend before school would start again. Sundays in Fall have a particularly gloomy feeling that only gets worse in November and early December, to the point where the first snow is a welcome relief from the constant grey.

That said, I plan on continuing to ride, ride, ride, until I can't anymore. We had almost no snow last winter so I did manage to ride a few times in the snow. This year, they are predicting lots of the white stuff so it will bring new challenges. I am busy making modifications to the barn, relocating water, building a hay feeder and generally getting ready for the worst. I think we'll be ok, but it will be a learning experience for the following years. 

I don't mind if I can't ride a lot, but not even being able to get out and exercise with the horses will get to me if it's that kind of winter. I hope we can at least keep part of the paddock clear so we can avoid going completely stir-crazy.


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## Acadianartist

Pics! For those who asked. I can really see a difference in how that hollow behind her shoulder has filled in. 

I put the saddle on her, tried to wiggle it side to side and it's very stable. So I really think the fleece pad is causing the slipping - not that there's a lot of slipping.

So pics from side, front and back. Sorry, the back picture isn't great because I can't actually see over her bum (I had to hold the camera up over my head). As a result, the saddle is also slightly crooked. She was also standing at an angle. But I'm showing it to you anyway, so you can see there's good spine clearance.


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