# New Horse



## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

On Monday I got a new horse (after much buying and selling trying to find the one). She is a 2 and a half year old palomino quarter horse. I named her June (not sure why, don't even know if I like the name but it felt right). She had not been halter trained and had never had her hooves messed with or anything like that, just lots of scratches and LOTS of treats, so to say the least, she's a spoiled brat. She was easy to halter break, I got her home Monday and 20 minutes later she was leading around fine (still needs some work on backing though), and she was easy to teach how to flex as well, and she would pick up her feet, although she wouldn't hold them up, so I thought "she's going to be easy"... Wrong! When it came time to lunge her she showed all her crazy, running and bucking and turning and kicking, and she kept trying to jump out of the round pen and she tore down a panel, so my friend tried to lay her down (which she finally did) and.. She bites! So I have my work cut out for me with this one, but luckily I have some friends to help me and I think she will be a great horse after she gets use to being made to work. We did saddle her up too and she didn't care about having the saddle on her back at all. Anyways, I've spent two days with her and that's how they've been so far, and I'll either work with her this afternoon or tomorrow, or both, and hopefully things go a bit more smoothly. I do love her though, she's a cute little thing.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

> Monday I got a new horse (after much buying and selling trying to find the one). She is a 2 and a half year old palomino quarter horse.


By your own statement you have not been able to find the "right one", and now have bought what looks to be a another horse on its looks.

If you can't afford a trainer for your self and this young of a horse, you should not have bought something that needs a lot of work.

From the sounds of things, I sure don't agree with the approach of all your friends.

You join the ranks of many who buy a horse on looks, instead of ability to perform to match the rider's needs.

Good luck-----------


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Congrats on a very pretty purchase, but sadly I have to agree with a lot of what WTW says.

One thing sums it up for me, got her on Monday not halter broken, and you are having problems lunging??????? AND you have had a saddle on her

Sorry OP, but by your own words and description this situation worries me, someone is going to get hurt, or that mare is going to get ruined...


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

And, the horse was there for all of 36 hours before being deemed disobedient enough that a friend had to lay it down (and sounds like botched that maneuver)? At 2 years old and a day into being halter broke, how much could she have possibly understood about what was being asked of her?!

Sounds like a very inauspicious start...


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## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

Congrats!

What are your goals for this new horse?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

please, please, please . . SLOW DOWN! you are overfacing this young horse. this is not how to build a foundation on a young horse.

laying her down! a day after halter breaking! come on!


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

Uh, what?

Subbing.


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

I picked based upon if I clicked with the horse, not based on color or training. And I do have enough money to take her and myself to a trainer, which I plan on doing. My friend who helped me is a trainer, and I've seen the horses she's trained and they're great. I have not decided on a trainer yet but I thought I would have her out while I was looking. I did find out later today that she had had a bit of halter training in December but not much. I will admit I thought it was too soon for the saddle though. She wanted to be getting on her within a couple weeks but I'm waiting until she is 3 or 3 and a half, and it'll probably be a while before I put the saddle on her again. I do think she was right to lay her down, I've trained a horses to lunge before and she's trained many to lunge and she had an attitude and that fixed it. For a while though until I find a trainer I will be working with her by myself and I'll stick to leading, loading, lunging, picking up her feet and lots of sensitizing. Like you said I don't want to mess her up. And she is a sweet horse, I don't think she'll have an attitude for long once she's use to doing work. 
But anyways, we did not hurt her, we did not traumatize her and we did not push her further than she could be pushed. She did great with leading and flexing, we started lunging and she had an attitude, we layed her down and she dropped the attitude and was more willing to learn. 
I'm not a trainer but my friend is so I went with her instinct.


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## AnalisaParalyzer (Apr 25, 2012)

You DID push her further than she was ready for. You DID traumatized her. 

I got a totally unhandled long yearling a month and a half ago. For three weeks we did nothing but leading and working with his feet. When I started teaching him to lunge, we did nothing but walk for the first day, did three starts on trotting the second day, trotting in the third day, and only on day seven did I ask him for a canter. 

You didn't even let this horse get to know you before you forced her to run around scared of you, then forced her to the ground. I'm not surprised she bites, I would to if I felt like I had to protect myself from a predator! 

I may not be an expert, but I do know training, THE RIGHT WAY takes time. You are rushing this horse and she is not mentally prepared for everything your throwing at her.


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

She is not unhandled though. She's been handled her whole life, she just hasn't had much halter training. I personally will be taking things slower from now on, because I'm no horse trainer by all means. And I'm not using my friend as a trainer because even though I've seen the horses she's trained, she does go faster than I personally like. But I wanted her to come out and look at her and teach me how to get started on lunging. I did let her take the lead when maybe I shouldn't have, but since she has helped me with horses in the past I trusted her. My mare was not scared or jumpy or wide eyed afterwords, she was following her around and listening to her. I don't 100% agree with how fast she goes, but I also don't think she did anything wrong except maybe putting the saddle on too soon. When I work with my mare tomorrow I have no intentions of laying her down, putting the saddle on her, or lunging her hard, because like I said when I'm doing things myself I do like going slower, and I'm more concerned about the bond I build with her than anything.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

mustangmaiden said:


> But anyways, we did not hurt her, we did not traumatize her and we did not push her further than she could be pushed. She did great with leading and flexing, we started lunging and she had an attitude, we layed her down and she dropped the attitude and was more willing to learn.
> I'm not a trainer but my friend is so I went with her instinct.


If you truly believe that then I truly feel sorry for that horse, poor mare did not "have and attitude" she is just confused and you ARE pushing far to hard.

This is the trouble with these colt breaking competitions, you end up with a bunch of unskilled wannabes who think that they can 'break' a horse in a couple of days.

Well congrats you are well on the way to breaking this mare, breaking her spirit, her mind, and her trust. There are 2 possible outcomes:

You totally break everything about her, and you will end up with a dull robot of a horse, who has given up.

You don't break her, just bend her, and you end up with a sullen resentful horse who could snap at anytime.


Or you just drive her crazy and she ends up at the auction because she has "a bad attitude"


So very very sad.


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

Okay please read the rest of my posts. I am NOT in a hurry and I am NOT going to use her as my trainer. This was one day. I have seen horses she's trained and even owned one and they're fine. They're not dull and robot like and they're not crazy. But I DO want to go slower. I have no intentions of trying to get on her for at least 6 months to a year, which is why I'm NOT using her as my trainer. I will continue to do groundwork with her until then. I won't be pushing her like my friend did because I personally don't like doing that. She WAS NOT SCARED, I have seen a horse get scared from too much training and she was not acting like a scared horse. Yes, she did bite, but she also tried to bite my hands when I was leading her. Because she has been SPOILED. Her previous owner only spent time with her to give her treats, so she is constantly looking for treats and thinks she deserves a reward for letting us pet her and I don't want a horse that will try to get of doing anything. BUT I WILL BE TAKING THINGS SLOWER. This was the ONE day she came out to do some stuff. This is NOT how I will be doing it.


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## CrossCountry (May 18, 2013)

mustangmaiden said:


> I'm more concerned about the bond I build with her than anything.


No. Forget the whole "bond" thing - what you want is respect. It doesn't matter if she's spoiled, you need to get respect from her which means getting after her - don't make excuses for her biting, it is NOT acceptable no matter what.


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## AnalisaParalyzer (Apr 25, 2012)

You can say your going to take it slow after the fact...it doesn't change that you didn't stand up for your horse in the past 36 hours. You pushed her to lunge. You let someone lay her down. You, her owner, who claims she wants a bond, stood by and let it happen. It's going to take a lot more work after her recent experience to get her to trust you again. She's old enough that she will remember.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

AnalisaParalyzer said:


> You can say your going to take it slow after the fact...it doesn't change that you didn't stand up for your horse in the past 36 hours. You pushed her to lunge. You let someone lay her down. You, her owner, who claims she wants a bond, stood by and let it happen. It's going to take a lot more work after her recent experience to get her to trust you again. She's old enough that she will remember.


This. All of THIS!

My gelding was a similar age and had a similar amount of handling when I bought him. 

For the first two or three weeks, we did NOTHING but work on leading until he was perfect. It wasn't because he wasn't smart enough or was a slow learner. Far from it. He's very intelligent and learns quickly. It was because leading is the foundation for EVERYTHING else you teach a horse. "Okay" and "decent" aren't good enough. To move to the next step, "as close to perfect as possible" is the only thing that will work.

After his leading was spot-on, we worked on yielding fore and hind. Again, we didn't move on until he had it perfect and would yield with just an intent look at the body part to yield.

He didn't see the inside of a round pen for over a month. BUT when he did, he was prepared for it. He knew what I was asking for and knew the right answer. Teaching him to lunge took all of about fifteen minutes and involved zero stress and zero "craziness." Why? Because he had been prepared with the correct building blocks to know how to respond to what I was asking him to do.

Now, five years later, I have a horse who can be led with nothing but a rope around his neck and who, even after not really having been handled much in the last six months, when put into the round pen to lunge, moved off correct with a pointed finger and a cluck. Not because I was impatient and rushed through his training, but because I took the time to lay a correct foundation so he knows the right answers and understands the "questions."

Your filly wasn't running around the round pen acting crazy or having attitude. She was running around like she was because she was frustrated and scared. Laying her down just reinforced to her that the round pen is NOT a good place and that her fears were well-founded. She followed your friend around not out of respect, but out of fear.

You talk about wanting a bond with her, but then you don't respect her enough to take things slowly from the outset. 

Analisa is right. I fear you've done much more damage in the past 36 hours of having your filly than you realize. What on God's green earth would possess you to think that rushing things so much would be a good idea? I just can't even fathom that. What made you think that trying to lunge her (when you as much as admitted that you don't know how to teach a horse to lunge) would be a good idea given her history of lack of handling and how short of time she'd been with you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

Oh I'm not making excuses for her biting, I'm not very happy that her previous owners never taught her that it wasn't acceptable. After laying her down she is a lot less nippy, I think I'll get the biting under control quickly. She's already learning not to. And I want a bond and respect. And please stop. This happened yesterday early afternoon. I spent time with her last night and today. She is fine. She's not scarred for life. She's not scared of me. She's not skiddish or overwhelmed. She's following me around, letting my pet her, rubbing her head on me when I scratch her in the right spot. She's acting exactly the same, except she's trying to nip at me less. And I'm not saying that I want to take yesterday back and I should have "stuck up for her" because nothing was wrong yeterday. My friend taught a horse who didn't mind her own space and tried to bite some respect, and she's clearly not traumatized or scared. She's happy and I'm taking things at a slow pace from now on. If you want to give training advice or tell me some good exercises to with her then that's fine but quit with the negative comments. I will not keep repeating myself when my horse is happy and fine. Like I said I know what a traumatized horse looks like and she is the furthest thing from it.


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

Okay fine you're totally right, she's ruined forever and my friend doesn't know what she's doing. That's why she's trained so many horses and why the mare I had a while back who was THE EXACT SAME AGE as this mare when she started training her and had THE EXACT SAME TRAINING and was even ridden within 2-3 weeks of my friend buying her, could do THE EXACT SAME THING as your horse can. And she wasn't scared of humans or anything like that. She was a fantastic horse who, for the record, I only sold because she was to small for me, and her new owners enjoy her very much. Just because people have different methods that work doesn't mean another doesn't. And I think I already made it **** well clear that I'm not continuing with her as a trainer for this horse. And after that one day of training with her she is PERFECTLY fine and acting just as loving and slightly more willing as she was before. If you don't have advice on what I can do in the future instead of what's already happened, then please keep your comments to yourself. They're not going to change what has already happened.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Well that is a turn around in 12 minutes...I think that maybe something is sinking in?


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

I said in my very first response that she was just there for the one day, that I wasn't using her as my trainer, and that I'm going to go slower. Not sure what I've turned around as I've been saying the same thing over and over. 
I've honestly stated what's happened thus far. I just want advice on what to do in the future. And the advice can't be "don't move that fast!" When I've already stated I'm going to go much slower. Good lord..


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## aclassicalpaint (Feb 11, 2015)

I don't agree with the whole laying a horse down thing - no matter how old it is. But OP is right, what's done is done. Hopefully the filly is all good mentally. 
I'm not sure how experienced you are with horses, OP. But you've made it clear you don't exactly agree with your friend and you will be taking it slower, which is enough for me. Some of these posts are a little too rude. 
We all make mistakes. At least this filly got a home. OP seems to love her. 
To get her better with lunging, introduce her to the elements of lunging before actually doing it (desensitize to the roundpen, lunge whip, etc). Get her confidence up. Also, keep her on a line for now.
Best of luck to you!


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

I know different people have different opinions on laying horses down, and although I don't mind it, it's not something I'm ever going to try and do by myself. And she seems totally fine mentally. I've seen horses that have been worked like this when they weren't ready and it's hard to earn their trust. But she is still being trusting and loving. I don't think she broke her spirit or anything like that. And yes, I'll lunge on the line from now on. That's what I know. I wanted her to teach me how to properly free lunge, and she's the one who lunged her in the roundpen. I'll keep her on the line until she understands and just start at a walk. And of course I always always desensitize to the whip before hand. The lunge whip doesn't scare her or make her jumpy when I'm going over her body with it. I do love her and I'll be sure not to do anything that hurts her or makes her afraid of people, some of you clearly think what happened yesterday did, but I can honestly say from going out and spending time with her today that it didnt.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

mustangmaiden said:


> I know different people have different opinions on laying horses down, and although I don't mind it, it's not something I'm ever going to try and do by myself. And she seems totally fine mentally. I've seen horses that have been worked like this when they weren't ready and it's hard to earn their trust. But she is still being trusting and loving. I don't think she broke her spirit or anything like that. And yes, I'll lunge on the line from now on. That's what I know. I wanted her to teach me how to properly free lunge, and she's the one who lunged her in the roundpen. I'll keep her on the line until she understands and just start at a walk. And of course I always always desensitize to the whip before hand. The lunge whip doesn't scare her or make her jumpy when I'm going over her body with it. I do love her and I'll be sure not to do anything that hurts her or makes her afraid of people, some of you clearly think what happened yesterday did, but I can honestly say from going out and spending time with her today that it didnt.


You might want to take her back to the round pen & wherever she was dropped before making this claim.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I don't think you broke her either, not in one session. I only meant to say, please slow down with her. you did not ruin her, but if you kept on pressing at that speed, you might. some horses do ok, some not. if she's as nice as you say, take some time to get to know what kind of a horse she is, and what will work best for her.

it won't hurt her for you to wait a bit, observe, and work with her . it's not like you have to wait until she's three. watching her and working with her will tell you when she's ready. a lot of horses can think about jumping out of the round pen, and I have to admit, that's a scary position to be in, 'cause if she tries, she might get hurt. 

the thing is , don't use these sort of "emergency" responses as a normal approach, and if you slow down a bit, you wont' bring her to the place where her reaction is so extreme that you DO have to use emergency measures to save her from herself.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

Let's go back to basics! First things first!

My A-B-Cs that should be the frame-work of all training are:

A) Make sure a horse is *ready* and able to do everything you ask it to do.

B) Make sure you are asking in a clear and understandable way so it know exactly what you want it to do.

C) Don't quit until the horse is doing what you asked it to do.

This horse was about as ready to longe as it was to ride. IT WASN'T!

This horse was ready to get better trained to lead and give to pressure on its halter.

This horse was then ready to learn to 'give' to pressure on its body. You should take it in hand and teach it to back up from pressure on its halter. You teach it to move its hind quarters and to move its shoulders, both from the left and right sides. You teach it that it should move away from pressure and you release that pressure the instant it moves. Every time you make it move, you go back and rub it and make sure it stands still and relaxed when you just want to touch it and NOT make it move. I use a 'smooch' to let it know it is supposed to move. I say "Whoa!" when I want it to stand still and not move. I give a light little bump on its halter to teach it to stand still.

Only then would this horse even be ready to tie up and brush and rub all over while tied. It would still be a long way from being ready to pick its feet up.

This horse was ONLY ready to go to a round pen WITH another horse or your round pen better be high enough and strong enough to hold rodeo stock and wild horses. Then, you better be an expert on round pen use with wild horses. It does not work quite as well as it appears to work in the highly edited videos with experts doing it. At this point, of course this horse just wanted to get away from you. 

So for you, a novice, this horse was definitely not ready to go to the round pen. It needed gentled and broke to lead and THEN broke to yield to pressure -- all without trauma or force. 

You DO NOT TEACH A HORSE WITH FORCE. Forcing a horse to do something it is not ready to do only keeps it in a 'reactive' mode. Horses learn nothing in a reactive mode except fear or to get mad. They need to be in a 'responsive' mode in order to think and learn. [A horse drops its head, relaxes and licks its lips when it is in a 'thinking ' or 'responsive' mode.] As long as it is braced and stiff or is 'fighting' you, it is in a reactive mode and nothing positive is being learned.

As for the biting? Well, a small little jerk of the lead-rope and an "Ah!" is all it takes to teach one that biting is not allowed. Save 'laying a horse down' for a 5 year old spoiled stud that is attacking people and trying to kill them. The stud in "Buck", the movie, needed 4 way hobbles or needed laid down -- not your green, scared little filly. She is NOT spoiled (except for the biting which is really easy to stop). She is green. In order to train any horse, you need to know the difference.


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## Spec (Jun 13, 2015)

mustangmaiden said:


> I know different people have different opinions on laying horses down, and although I don't mind it, it's not something I'm ever going to try and do by myself. And she seems totally fine mentally. I've seen horses that have been worked like this when they weren't ready and it's hard to earn their trust. But she is still being trusting and loving. I don't think she broke her spirit or anything like that. And yes, I'll lunge on the line from now on. That's what I know. I wanted her to teach me how to properly free lunge, and she's the one who lunged her in the roundpen. I'll keep her on the line until she understands and just start at a walk. And of course I always always desensitize to the whip before hand. The lunge whip doesn't scare her or make her jumpy when I'm going over her body with it. I do love her and I'll be sure not to do anything that hurts her or makes her afraid of people, some of you clearly think what happened yesterday did, but I can honestly say from going out and spending time with her today that it didnt.


If you have "seen horses worked like this when they weren't ready", why did you let it happen to your horse? It's okay to admit you are inexperienced with horses, I think the people on the forums would react better that way.
Also, if you are being honest about how much this "trainer" had to do with the whole lunging scenario, I do not think she is someone I would allow to mess with my horse.
I'm not here to make you feel bad. I think your horse is not beyond repair. I just think you need to take a step back, and plan how and what you are going to work with her on, every day, but do not pass benchmarks before she is ready. In other words, until you have walked her around for hours and hours, gotten rid of that biting habit, and taught her some basic ground manners, do not lunge or do anything even moderately complicated, like everyone else has already advised.
Hope it all works well for you


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

I'm not trying to act like I'm experienced. I know I'm still pretty inexperienced. I have trained a mustang before, and I had him to the point where I could sit on him bareback but I took way more slowly than my friend would have if she was doing it. And I plan on treating this horse the same way. But she knows a lot about horses and has a lot more experience training so I had her out to look at my mare. I have a pasture, and then a smaller area up by the barn (which is where I'm keeping her right now) and the round pen is sort of in the area she's in. I've lead her around more than you would probably think in the about of time that I've had her and I've taken her in and out of the round pen and all around. She gives to pressure really great, she leads better than some of the horses I've had that have been halter broke for years. Anyways, I really did let her take over, I was outside of the area that she stays in and I was holding her kid and watching while she did all the lunging, wether I should have had her stop or not I guess is debatable but I can't go back now anyways. After the lunging and again after the laying down she was licking her lips and chewing, and I've always seen that as a good thing so I didn't think anything wrong of what she did. But I like I said her way is not the same way that I like so even though she's my friend and ive seen the horses she's trained, I'm still not going to use her as my trainer. And I have a feeling it will be hard for me to find the right trainer because most everyone in my area is old fashioned cowboy move quick and make the horse do what you want type trainer. I think I would honestly prefer the whole "natural horsemanship" thing instead, not that I think the way she and many others do it is wrong or bad, I just want to make sure my horse has a connection to me. But if there's something I need to do to make her respect me I will do it. Anywho, I plan on keeping this horse until the day she dies, no matter what happens or what goes right or wrong, I will not be selling her, therefor, I'm in no hurry to have her broke to ride, If it takes two months, fine, if it takes two years, that's fine too. I'm not in a rush and that's why I'm NOT hiring my friend as my trainer.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Just wondering why you opened with "she was not halter trained" then suddenly she WAS already halter trained? 

See we read things, and when they don't add up we wonder what the real story is, and why you are changing it as you go along. Were you trying to look like a great trainer by saying that she wasn't halter broke?


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I think the best thing to do is start from here forward. Let's see how it goes now that they are backing up a little.


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

I was originally told not halter broke. She was doing really great with leading though, and when I talked to the lady I bought her from about it, AFTER this post had already been made, she informed me that her husband had done a LITTLE bit of halter training in December. I already said that I didn't find out until last night about that, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

I got a mare last year that had been in a bad situation she was 2 years old, never been handled and hadn't even been weaned off her mom. She was terrified of people and you know what i did the first week I had her?

1) got a halter on her for emergency purposes only
2) let her stay with her mom since i didn't want to traumatize her by being in a new place AND having her mom taken away
3) sat with them while they ate and talked softly to her.

When I saw she was finally relaxing around me i would try approaching her mom and then reach out to her......It took more than 3 months before I even thought about lunging her. I had to earn her trust and work really hard to not set her back while introducing something new. I have just started under saddle work with her and she has gotten to the point where she looks to me when she is unsure or scared of something.

I'm just saying if I had tried pushing her too hard too fast I probably would have destroyed her trust in humans irreparably but by giving her time to get use to me and new things slowly she is turning out to be a really great filly.

I do agree that things with your filly were done too fast and my personal opinion is that from now on just take things slow with her and remember even though she seems ok just give her time to get use to you and her new home. Also good luck with her.


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

She is living at my grandparents house, and they have 60 acres. If I need to spend every day of the next month putting the halter on her and leading her around every square inch of the 60 acres and forgetting about everything else for now, then that is what I will do. Criticizing me for something that has already happened is not going to be nearly as productive as giving me advice on things I could start doing instead. So please if any comments could focus on the future from now on that would be great


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## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

I don't think you ever answered my question, what are your goals with her?


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

jenkat86 said:


> I don't think you ever answered my question, what are your goals with her?


From this thread http://www.horseforum.com/horse-talk/opinions-bloodlines-675234/ trail horse and possible brood mare it seems


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

Oh sorry. Yes, trail horse, and MAYBE let her have a foal somewhere down the line but it'll be a while before I decide. I won't breed her without good reason.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

I would start by focusing on basic ground manners that will be esstential later on in life for everything. Start of by leading and try to get her shoulder to stay even with your shoulder (She doesn't have to be perfect right away) if she lags behind take a driving whip and while you stay facing forward lightly tap her hip to get her to move up even with you. If she gets ahead of you take a crop and tap her on the chest to get her to back off. IF at light pressure she doesn't listen/respond correctly increase the pressure until she does what you want then praise her and start again. But always give her time to do the correct thing before correction or punishment. 

Once she is good at leading forward at the walk, work on back....then work on some transitions walk, halt, back; back, halt, walk on etc. Then work on yeilding both fore and hindquarters. When she excels at these work on tying and having her stand still while doing various things around her. But always remember start slowly. She won't be a top trained horse if she gets pushed to hard too fast.


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

Walked her to the back of the property today, and lead her to a spot where there's a clearing in the woods. She leads really well, stays even with me and whoas good. She's getting better at backing already. She's not a jumpy horse, my last horse had his ears perked and eyes wide and kept trying to trot his first time back there and he had spent a lot of time on trail rides, but she could care less. She did spook once when something crashed through the woods but it scared me too! She didn't take off though, just jumped a little and stepped on my toe. Compared to past horses she's not spooky at all which I love. Yeah she jumped once today but it was loud and surprising and she didn't do anything out of control, and it was her first time out there. So I'm proud of her.


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

She really enjoyed eating the grass and meeting the cows


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## AlKhamsa (Feb 16, 2016)

I've always liked Palominos, and this one is no different. I don't like hearing that she's a biter. A cure for biting that I grew up with is boiling a potato and stuffing it up your shirt or around the area she usually goes for and letting the horse go for the bite and hope the bite lands square on the potato. Later on, I read the same tactic in one of the books from Walter Farley's Black Stallion series. My suggestion is to watch her body language and get to know her habits. Especially key is how she acts right before she goes to bite and snap around to face her. Using equine language against her may be the best cure, imo. Good luck


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

AlKhamsa said:


> A cure for biting that I grew up with is boiling a potato and stuffing it up your shirt or around the area she usually goes for and letting the horse go for the bite and hope the bite lands square on the potato. Later on, I read the same tactic in one of the books from Walter Farley's Black Stallion series.


How in the world is biting a potato (which has been boiled, so is soft) supposed to cure a horse of biting? That makes zero sense to me.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> How in the world is biting a potato (which has been boiled, so is soft) supposed to cure a horse of biting? That makes zero sense to me.


The theory is that it is so hot it will burn the horse when bitten into.


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## SillyStallion (Feb 7, 2016)

natisha said:


> The theory is that it is so hot it will burn the horse when bitten into.


Won't it burn you if you have it down your sleeve?


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

SillyStallion said:


> Won't it burn you if you have it down your sleeve?


That's what I was thinking! LOL!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

Never made any sense to me. I think it is just another part of a novel -- you know, 'fiction' -- not exactly a training tutorial.

If a horse is not aggressively attacking with its teeth, all you have to do his hold a nail in your hand and keep that hand between the horse and the place he usually tries to bite. I have not seen the horse that runs into that nail more than twice. Most only run into it once.

I never hit or slap horses, I seldom even pick up a whip or stick or flag. I never have horses that are head-shy or duck or dodge when you move a hand fast, but you can bet that they NEVER try to nip or bite me. Only new horses ever try. A lot of incoming horses people brought me when I still trained for the public would try to bite or nip when they came in. All it ever took (unless they were viciously attacking) was to hold that little nail and let them run into it.


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

^^I do the same thing with a hoof pick. Pretty darn effective.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

I used my engagement ring....i had a horse that would try to bite your back if you went under his neck and i just held up my hand with my ring and he never tried biting me or anyone again


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

It is just so easy and so effective to let them run into an unpleasant obstacle, that I cannot imagine why anyone would want to make it so complicated or get into a slapping / hitting game with them. They run into a sharp object and it is just like one ran into an electric fence. So very effective and they never blame you -- they blame the behavior .


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

Especially when the people slapping and squealing say it's "mean" to poke them. Really? A fellow boarder said that to me recently and I just stared at her.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Fencing staples work well as well, usually have one of those in my pocket


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## Spec (Jun 13, 2015)

I've heard of the nail thing, I'm sure it works, but I'm not going to wait until I have a nail in my hand to reprimand biting behavior. I will treat a horse like he's my annoying brother if he bites or threatens to bite (which is usually an elbow or firm pop on the nose). Might not work for everyone, but I've never had a head shy horse. Also never had a biter.


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

I think the biting is under control now. Took maybe 3 pops on the nose. She hasn't been under a ton of pressure but she hasn't tried to do it anymore. And per everyone's advice I started over and she is leading fantasticly, backing (although she does try and test me occosianly by not moving but i always get her backed), picking up her feet most of the time, yeilding to her forequarters good, yeilding to hand quarters decent, getting much easier to catch, and handles desensitizing pretty well. I've been watching a lot of missy wryn videos, what does everyone think of her?


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

SillyStallion said:


> Won't it burn you if you have it down your sleeve?


Most likely. That may be why we never actually know anyone who did it. Plus, it would be tough to have it positioned just right.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Spec said:


> I've heard of the nail thing, I'm sure it works, but I'm not going to wait until I have a nail in my hand to reprimand biting behavior..


Well if you have a persistent biter you carry a nail everytime after the first time it happens without it! It really does work, especially if you buy something with an ingrained bad habit, and also mouthy foals when they start experimenting...The beautiful thing is that the horse decides itself to quit biting, because it decides humans are pointy spiky things


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## Spec (Jun 13, 2015)

Golden Horse said:


> Well if you have a persistent biter you carry a nail everytime after the first time it happens without it! It really does work, especially if you buy something with an ingrained bad habit, and also mouthy foals when they start experimenting...The beautiful thing is that the horse decides itself to quit biting, because it decides humans are pointy spiky things


Ahh that makes sense!


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## Spec (Jun 13, 2015)

mustangmaiden said:


> I think the biting is under control now. Took maybe 3 pops on the nose. She hasn't been under a ton of pressure but she hasn't tried to do it anymore. And per everyone's advice I started over and she is leading fantasticly, backing (although she does try and test me occosianly by not moving but i always get her backed), picking up her feet most of the time, yeilding to her forequarters good, yeilding to hand quarters decent, getting much easier to catch, and handles desensitizing pretty well. I've been watching a lot of missy wryn videos, what does everyone think of her?


I just watched all of her videos to see for myself. I appreciate how gentle she is. That being said, I generally steer clear of people who call themselves "horse whisperers". I noticed some of the things she does are very strange, like the constant baby talking, kissing horse's noses, etc. Don't get me wrong, I kiss my horse on the nose, but not usually while I'm trying to have a productive training session, LOL. Also, I feel like she doesn't do as much "horse training" as she does "oh wow the horse looked at me, so much progress" *five minutes of baby talk to horse*. Not sure how productive that will be, but if you feel it is working, I say keep doing it. However, if you want to be able to ride your horse within the next five years, you might want to mix some other training methods in with the Missy Wryn stuff you're doing. There are several of decent trainers with youtube channels out there, just look up any of the numerous "who is your favorite trainer" threads here on HF and start searching.


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## cajunbella (Feb 26, 2016)

I have taken some time to read through this thread and, although I may not be a trainer, I have a degree in equine exercise physiology. During the course of reviewing everything discussed here, I want to encourage everyone involved to remember that although we all have our varying areas of expertise, it's important to note that we all come here to get more wisdom and information and not to be overly harsh with criticisms of tactics tried. I do see that a sense of urgency needed to be imparted on the seriousness of what lying a horse down means to the animal experiencing it. So, with all this being said, I think it is often misunderstood how exactly the mind of a horse works and what limitations are naturally in place that add to the 'reasoning' of horses. Practically every single horse owner understands that they are operating from the perspective of fight or flight. It's often very easy to forget horses are prey when you're looking at an 800 lb. plus animal. They are quick, reactionary animals and even the position of their eyes add to some of their fearful instincts as they are equipped with blind spots. We also tend to grant them immense reasoning abilities that they actually do not possess. They are quite literally functioning from learned, adapted, inherited, environmental, physiological, and nutritional influences. It truly takes vast amounts of patience and observations to assess what each animal is like and a clear understanding of what will work best for your horse. There should be a foundational framework that clearly demonstrates who the leader is. ...Whose hooves moves first looses! I am eager to help in anyway possible and I would recommend that you do a search for the kit to make a horse hat which gives you the ability to know what it's like to have the limited vision of a horse and just how much they rely on our guidance and trust as you are led around with only a guide rope to point the way through obstacle. I found it very revealing in showing me what my own personal flawed perceptions were and the exercises opened up an entirely new approach in the way I handle and work with any horse.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

danicelia24 said:


> I used my engagement ring....i had a horse that would try to bite your back if you went under his neck and i just held up my hand with my ring and he never tried biting me or anyone again


I'd like to see that ring.


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

June is getting really good at leading, stopping, flexing, yielding to her for and hind quarters, standing tied, and picking up her feet. There's one foot I have to struggle a little to get up and were still having some problems with backing but were making good progress now. After I practiced those things with her today I desensitized her with the lead rope and then a plastic bag, which she doesn't mind unless the bag is above her head, but she's still not even too bad about that. I had her walk over some things, she wanted to go around at first but once I showed her what to do she was good. I also saddled her up and she just stood there calmly, and then after I walked her around a bit and unsaddled her I laid across her back, she tried to take a step but my grandpa had the lead rope and he whoad her and then she was fine. Very calm about everything, I hope it wasn't too soon to do that, I just want to get her use to the sounds and feel of the saddle and the weight on her back, obviously I'm not gonna try to hop on and ride her yet. I think tomorrow I may try to lunge her, any tips for that?


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

I do agree about Missy Wryn. I watch her videos to get a clear idea and good description of where I should be standing, where I should tap the horse, etc. and also because she explains a lot about what a horses reaction means and why they react like that and I like that, it helps me understand what I'm doing better and feel more confident, especially because I've learned how to earn the horses respect. But I do speed things up a bit and add them together and cut out all the baby talk, unless we make a really big break through. I don't like listening to all her baby talk but I do feel like I've learned a lot of small helpful things. It was evident today that I'm improving as a trainer because there was lots of licking and chewing going on.


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

Since everyone has been so helpful, I have a question. 
June has been doing really well with all the basics, and were started on lunging, just walking and it's still a little bumpy but we're getting there. I've been laying over her back to get her use to the weight and the feeling, she just stands there very calmly, would you say it's safe for me to sit all the way on her yet? No moving, just sitting?


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## AnalisaParalyzer (Apr 25, 2012)

i wouldnt. that would again, be pushing it too far. i know its exciting to get your leg over a horse the first time, but patience is key. get her lunging nicely first. then get her saddled regularly and lunging with a saddle well. then long line her for a while. i would continue occasionally laying over her back. i would also pony her if possible, with and without a saddle. 

only after shes lunging nicely in the saddle, long lining well with good flex to both the right and left, only then would i go ahead and do a session of getting on and off a few times. after that session, maybe the next day, get on, stand for a minute or two, then ask her to walk, and move from there.

it takes a while to build a horse up mentally to where they can handle the pressure of a human being on their back. push her too far too soon, and youl have a horse that decidedly does not like people on top of them.


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

Thanks for the advice! I was only going to sit on her bareback for a second in the round pen, but if it's best to wait that's what I'll do. I have had the saddle on a couple of times and laid over her. But I'll work on lunging today because she definitely needs more practice with that.


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## SillyStallion (Feb 7, 2016)

How is she with people above her? Have you tried grooming stood on a step ladder? I've not yet had a horse I have backed been bothered by weight, but what they can freak about is when you sit up and they see you above them, but behind. Lots for grooming with a step ladder and doing other stuff above them seems to sort this issue 

It's exciting isn't it? Best feeling in the world is starting your own


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

Hmm I'm not sure, but I'll try it! When I first started laying over her back I started out standing on a block so I wasn't jumping, because I didn't want her to take off, so I was a little higher than her then and she didn't mind, and she didn't mind me laying on her so I just jump up there now. I move around when I'm up there to see if she's going to care when I swing my leg over but she's so calm about everything. If she was a nervous horse I wouldn't be so excited about wanting to sit on her but she's so dang relaxed. Even when she does spook she's not like my last horse, she just jumps a little or moves sideways a bit but then goes right back to how she was, where as my last horse jumped a lot and would take off walking fast, or just take off, and then it'd take him a while to calm down and quit breathing heavy. So even though she will spook a little at some stuff, I like the way she gathers herself, and I think with more desensitizing and work she will be a pretty tough care free little horse. I really don't think she'd mind if I sat up on her, but I'll continue to wait and try some grooming on a stool. She still needs work with lunging too, she just wants to come into me instead of going around. But I am loving training my own horse, I'm learning so much and I'm building such a good bond with her as well, and it's very exciting when we both get something right. On a side note, I don't have to catch her anymore, she just comes to me, I think the other day we made a break through with trust because I went out and she was laying down, of course I stopped to take a picture and she stood up but I did make it fairly close to her and she didn't mind me being there while she was laying down, then she came up to me and let me (very slowly) put my hands on her face, and then I let her just sniff me all over while I picked burrs out of her hair then I just hung out out there with her for a while, just sat down and talked to her. Ever since then she comes right up to me and will follow me around even without a halter on and let's me touch the top of her head and ears now. I'm really loving this horse.


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

Sorry about the rambling, I get too excited


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

So. I've been reading and researching and watching videos (because what else is a horse obsessed person suppose to do in their free time?) and I've decide my goal is to be able to ride June with a neck reign ring, instead of a bridle or halter. But to go about that, when the time comes should I start her training with a bridle then switch to neck reign ring, or just start with the neck reign ring? Or both?


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## AnalisaParalyzer (Apr 25, 2012)

Start with a bridle. Go bitless if you really want, but I always teach horses in a simple o ring snaffle first, it makes it easier to teach them. My process in teaching a horse to steer with a neck rein (and what would probably work best if you want to eventually use a neck ring) is first ask them to turn with a rein against the neck (classic neck rein), if they don't turn after one stride, ask with the leg (which they should respond to if you've taught them to move off of pressure on the belly from the ground), then a light pull off the rein (they should bend their head and neck easily if you've taught them proper bending on the ground first) You keep all three cues "on" until they actually turn. Do this over and over in both directions until they begin turning just from the neck rein. Also, instill a great, and I mean fantastic verbal "whoa" into the horse from the get go. (This is One reason why long lining is important. You should have a good "whoa" established from lunging, but when long lining, you add the pressure from the bit to reinforce the whoa. You say whoa, if they don't stop right away, you pull back a little on the long lines abd repeat your whoa, increasing pressure until they stop then IMMEDIATELY releasing. In the saddle, you introduce the seat into the whoa. You sit back and give a verbal whoa at the same time, if they don't stop, you use the bridle. If you do this consistently, the horse will catch on that when your weight shifts back, they need to stop. After a while, you won't need the reins, or the verbal whoa, they'll stop as soon as you mean back )

After you have the horse responding immediately to the neck rein RELIABLY, abd has an amazing whoa, you can move to the neck ring. When you lay the ring against their neck, it works like neck reining, abd they turn. When you sit back and say whoa, they stop without needing the bridle. 

I sometimes ride my mare with just a rope around her neck. We've jumped, done figure eights, practised stopping abd backing, turning on the fore and hind...but it took two years of working with her on the basics before I felt secure doing it. 

Like everything with horses, there are very important, very precise steps you have to take in training, to prepare them for the end goal. It's doable, with dedication and common sense.


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

Thank you! We're not that far yet but I will definitely save that advice


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

We lunged! Just a little bit, mostly at a fast walk but we did have about two laps at a trot. My grandpa came out to see how I was doing with her and I told him I was having trouble lunging so he took her in the round pen and taught her and showed me how, and then we had success! We'll have to slowly work up to a good smooth trot and then canter, but I'm so proud! After we lunged she followed me every where I walked (without lead rope and halter) and stopped when I whoad then kept walking with me when I walked. Invisible lead rope ?
And when I went in the barn to get her some grain she stuck her head in the window and scratched her hoof on the wall becuase she wanted to fallow me. 
I walked her over some logs, didn't phase her. Also over a piece of a tarp that neither one of us seen in some tall grass, that phased her a little haha but it wasn't bad. 
And then! I sat on her. My grandpa held the lead rope for me, just in case. Before I sat on her I stood on the fence and waved my hands around, she didn't care, just looked at me like "what's wrong with you mom?", and then I stood up there and touched her all over from above and she didn't care, so that's when I hopped on and sat on her, she didn't mind at all! 
I'm so happy with how everything went today. My grandpa is impressed with how good I have her flexing and said I was making really good progress on her backing up (there's no struggle now). I spent about three hours with her today, some of it was just relaxing time. It's suppose to rain for about the next 7 days, but hopefully she retains some of our newly learned stuff from today. 
Oh yeah, I almost forget, I've decided to work on laying down with her (no not the tieing her legs up with rope and forcing her down way) just natural laying down, I've watched a lot of videos on it and it'll probably take a couple weeks but I think it'll be a good trust builder, I sat on the ground and brought her head to the ground and she sniffed around, we stayed there for a LONG time, and she did lots of yawning and pawed the ground a few times, she was definitely thinking about laying down, so I think that's a good sign.
We got quite a few pictures today too but unfortunately neither one of us are photogenic.


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

Some pictures! Since I've literally taken hundreds in the last couple of days. And is it just me or does she look a little suspicious in that last one? ?


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## AnalisaParalyzer (Apr 25, 2012)

That's awesome that you got her lunging. I've been training my colt to lunge, but I don't have the luxury of a round pen, so it's all been in open pasture on a line. How old is your horse again?


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

She's 2 and a half, she's been kicking a lot while lunging now though, I'm trying to get her to quit without scaring her, we'll get it right eventually


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## SillyStallion (Feb 7, 2016)

If she's only 2 and a half you could be progressing faster than she is comfortable - 10-15 minutes at a time is fine - spending 3 hours 'messing' with her is too much (you wouldn't expect a small child to be happy and smiling after that length of time). She's a baby, let her be a baby. A lot say that 2 is fine, and maybe for some it is, but if the horse is souring from the work, maybe give her time off to grow up and cope with it mentally.

Another thing to consider is at 2 and a half she may be losing her first milk teeth - this in itself can make them crabby. I always give them time off when they are teething.


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

When I say I mess with her for 3 hours it's more like 15-30 minutes of work (maybe only 5-10 of that lunging) and the rest just sitting outside with her, brushing her, taking pictures of her, etc. so she gets use to me doing stuff with her even when she's not learning. She shouldn't already be acting up by the time I lunge her because that starts not long after I go out there with her, and she's fine with doing anything else I ask her afterwords. I'm going to try setting up a different round pen this weekend (bigger and sturdier) and starting over with her lunging to see if I can get her to calm down a bit. Everyone (not on here) has been telling me that I need to be riding her already but I'm like nooo, I know she's not ready for that yet.


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## SillyStallion (Feb 7, 2016)

mustangmaiden said:


> When I say I mess with her for 3 hours it's more like 15-30 minutes of work (maybe only 5-10 of that lunging) and the rest just sitting outside with her, brushing her, taking pictures of her, etc. so she gets use to me doing stuff with her even when she's not learning. She shouldn't already be acting up by the time I lunge her because that starts not long after I go out there with her, and she's fine with doing anything else I ask her afterwords. I'm going to try setting up a different round pen this weekend (bigger and sturdier) and starting over with her lunging to see if I can get her to calm down a bit. Everyone (not on here) has been telling me that I need to be riding her already but I'm like nooo, I know she's not ready for that yet.


3 hours of messing - whatever form that takes, is too much. You horse is showing you this - please listen to her...


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## AnalisaParalyzer (Apr 25, 2012)

What I do with my almost two year old is this 

Bring him in from pasture, quick brush down and hoof cleaning, give him his breakfast. 
Around noon-one, 10-15 minutes of lunging. Five minutes of bending. Back in his stall with his hay. 
Dinner timeictures, maybe another grooming session, maybe some in hand work, only fifteen-twenty minutes, then it's dinner, abd back out to pasture. 

If you must bother her a lot, break it down into three or four SHORT sessions a day. That way your not overloading her all at once, but giving her time to relax and process.


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

Thanks for the advice, it's a little hard to break it down like that because she's at my grandparents and I have to spend time with her when I'm there, but it'll be easier once I get moved and get her to my place. She seems to enjoy the just sitting around and letting her do what she wants, I usually just sit on the ground, and lately she's been thinking about laying down with me (sniffing and pawing the ground), I always leave if she starts to get antsy acting though. I don't think the problems lunging is from spending too much time with her becuase I usually go out, flex her, pick up her feet, lead her around for a minute, back her up, then put her in the round pen to lunge, so she's definitely not over worked before I put her in the round pen. It may actually be from my friend working her so hard in that round pen when I first brought her home, which is another reason I want to try it in a different space. But I always watch her body language when I'm spending time with her and if she's not relaxed I go back to the house and let her be. I do also think she may be a little lonely, she was with her mom, another mare, and a gelding at all times before I brought her home and now she's by herself.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

mustangmaiden said:


> I do also think she may be a little lonely, she was with her mom, another mare, and a gelding at all times before I brought her home and now she's by herself.


I'm still worried for this horse, it's initial treatment that happened when it came home, now she is completely on her own.....you MAY, not have but MAY have issues that take a long time to fix...A horse that has been treated like that can shut down, you may think she is fine, but really she isn't.

You could also be asking too much of her, depends so much on so many things. Most important, she needs some company to hang out with......


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

Yeah I'm taking things very slow with her, so far when lunging I've been trying to just keep her at a walk. And we're still working on backing and picking up her feet too. I don't mind if it takes a long time, I do want to do what's best for her and I'm not in a hurry. At first I thought the way my friend wanted to train her was fine, but I've been researching and watching videos and reading up on training EVERY day, and now I don't think I agree with her. I've been doing everything gently, asking her to do it and not forcing her (but I don't let her get in space either) and spending lots of time with her, you can tell she's clearly improved. At first she would trot away from me every time I went out there, and we'd struggle to get the halter on, and she didn't like me petting her face. Now she comes to me as soon as I get the barn, lets me halter her up no problem, loves for me to pet her, and follows me everywhere. Everyone may have been right about my friend messing her up a bit at first, but I've started over with her and have been very easy on her and she's a totally different horse now. I strongly believe the kicking up when lunging is becuase of the round pen, so I'll update everyone in a couple of days and we'll see if I'm right or not. 
Im trying to talk my grandpa into letting me get another horse, even if it's just a companion horse or an old horse, as long as she has a friend. I hate just having her by herself. He told me I can only have one horse out there but I know she needs a "herd". 
Also, when I say she's kicking up in the round pen, she's not freaking out and kicking at me and acting totally scared, it's more like she goes around a couple times (becuase she does understand what she's suppose to do) but when she gets to the spot in the fence that she initially tried to jump when my friend lunged her, she pops up her butt and back feet a bit, which is why I want to try it in a different pen. 

And, if anyone knows of any good solid articles I could show my grandpa on why you should keep more than one horse together, please let me know so I can show him.


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

Well. We made some progress. Sort of... I fixed up a new round pen, and when I tried lunging there was no kicking or nervously poking her head over the gate, which is good. But instead she'll go a couple laps then stand and face me and shake her head up and down, I'm not sure what that means. And I can't get her to join up. But before I lunge if I take her in there she'll follow me around without the lead rope and if I stand in the middle and face away she'll come up to me, like a join up only not becuase it's before the lunging. After I try to lunge she won't come up to me. I'm trying to figure out how to get her past the facing me and shaking her, I keep moving behind her drive line but she just turns with me. I might have to have my grandpa help me again.


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## AnalisaParalyzer (Apr 25, 2012)

If she's stalling out and stopping to face you while your still pushing her to move, she's telling you "I'm done, I'm bored, you can't make me move". You need to up the ante. Get behind the drive line, Wave your arms, cluck, wave your whip, kiss, lots of energy in her direction telling her "hey, I said move!"

Also, if your only letting her walk, she's probably bored. Add some trotting, direction changes, halts, transitions...keep her brain working.


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

Okay, what's the head shaking mean? And what I should I do if she tries to kick?


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

Okay, worked with her today (only 20 or 30 minutes) did some assessing, watched her body language and here's what I've figured out. Lead rope = not scary, doesn't try to kick it, let's me throw it all over her body. Lunge whip = very scary, tries to kick it, does NOT like it when we work on desensitizing with it. So, I only did desensitizing with the lunge whip today instead of trying to lunge her, I always do it for a bit before hand but I think I haven't been doing it enough. Once she realizes what I'm throwing over her back/rear she gets pretty upset. So I think if I work with her only on desensitizing for a week or so, and then put her back in the round pen and try again, we'll finally have success. I could be totally off, but I was just trying to listen to what the horse was telling me. Any other advice and opinions are appreciated though. 
And, I talked to my grandpa about a second/companion horse, and he's thinking about it. He said "she's fine for now" but he knows it's important to me.


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

Working on transitions on the lunge line will really help once you start riding her. Pair your aids with voice commands ("whoa", "walk on", etc.) so it'll be easier for her to pick up on aids once you get on her back. 

The best advice I can give is to expose her to absolutely EVERYTHING. That's crucial for a trail horse. If you do get a buddy for her, I would highly suggest getting an older, steady Eddy kind of horse to help teach her. Ponying her on trails would be great exposure for her. She'll have to be desensitized to traffic, farm machinery, dogs, wildlife, water, loud noises, you name it. 

Also, always end training sessions on a good note, even if you have to go back and do something simple. Never drag it out to the point where she gets bored or frustrated. If _you're_ getting frustrated, take a break. Always stay calm and matter-of-fact. It'll go a long way in keeping her relaxed, as well.  Hope this was helpful, and good luck with her. She looks very calm and sweet.


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## AnalisaParalyzer (Apr 25, 2012)

It's good that your going to work on desensitization. Very important. 

For your question-the head shaking is her saying "no no no" standing her ground, and telling you she doesn't want to. 

For the kicking- if your going after her with the lunge whip, abd she kicks out at it, it's safe to say she's just not a fan of the whip. If she's standing still, not listening to your direction to move, and you pressure her abd she kicks, she's saying "back off, I'm not moving". At which point, you want to say, "yes, you are". Stay in the safe zone, throw your hands up, use your whip and give her the cue to move out. One of two things will happen. She'll turn away abd start moving like you told her to (at which point, you back off a bit. She did what you asked, so you take the pressure away, and let her do the right thing for herself) or, she could get more defiant, kick more, turn towards you, pin her ears, etc. Here it is important- if she's NOT charging at you, stand your ground. Keep the pressure on until she moves away from you. IF she comes at you aggressively, I mean striking, teeth out, ears pinned, GET OUT OF THERE. At that point, it's beyond you. I've seen horses that react that way really hurt inexperienced trainers. Defiance is one thing, aggression is a whole nother ball game.


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

Ah okay. I didn't know if all the head bobbing meant she was gonna charge or what, I haven't had a horse do that before, so it's good to know that's just her way of saying no. I'm gonna keep working on desensitizing so she's not afraid of the whip, and we started working on more voice commands today. On the ground she's got Whoa down almost perfect, and she's starting to catch on to Walk, hopefully she gets the hang of Back soon. And she is calm about anything else, it's just that dang lunge whip. I sat on her back today and she was cool as a cucumber, didn't try to walk off, turned her head back and sniffed me, and just stood there. I think once we get a handle on lunging things will really take off. And yes, I'd like to find an older horse. I'd love to rescue one, I seen one that was headed to slaughter today if no one got her, she was 12, broke, and gentle, and very beautiful. But my grandpa hadn't made up his mind about a second horse yet. Luckily someone got her at the VERY last minute.


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

Can you get a video? Or get someone to video you?


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

Of the lunging?


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

mustangmaiden said:


> Of the lunging?


Yes please


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

I'll try to get one at the end of this week, hopefully someone's there to take it


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

With my young horse, I only do two laps in one direction before asking for something else. Mind, that's two correct laps. Usually it is less, as I want him to believe I am in complete control at all times. I might ask for a 'whoa' or a turn, a change in gait. If he even looks like he's thinking of doing something, I ask for something else _before_ he can decide to do his own thing. Keeps him thinking _and_ paying attention to me. He doesn't have time to be bored.


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## SillyStallion (Feb 7, 2016)

mustangmaiden said:


> Yeah I'm taking things very slow with her,


Please bear in mind that lunging a 2yo is in no way taking things slowly.


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

How is it not? She'll be 3 this summer, everyone around here has been telling me that I need to be riding her already. I don't know how many people have told me "shes going to be a bad horse if you don't hurry up and get on her, a horse that age should be broke already" 
Which I don't agree with by the way, but I don't think starting to lunge her at a little over 2 and a half years is in any way too soon


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## AnalisaParalyzer (Apr 25, 2012)

It's just a difference in training opinion. I personally, like to halter break, abd have them leading asap. Tying by one. Between one and two, yielding the fore abd hind, side passing, and trotting in hand. Around two, lunging and bending, 20 min a day for three days in a row, then a day off, keep this schedule for about two weeks, then a couple weeks off, then a few days work, etc. Two abd a half, introducing the saddle, a month or two later the bridle, and then around three, long lining. At about three abd a half/four, I'll get on them. At this point, they should know verbal commands for walk/trot/maybe canter, they'll be bending/turning with light pressure on the bit, stopping with a whoa or light pressure on the bit, and should be mentally ready for a rider. If they aren't mentally ready, for any of these steps, I delay moving on until they are. If they buck on the lunge, they might not be ready. Give em a couple of weeks off, go back to in hand work, then try again for three days. Still bucking, more time off, more if the stuff they know how to do well. After a while, you have to fix the problem if it continues, but always give them the time off to see if it's just a mental immaturity, or if it's a learned or problem behavior. 

Every horse is different. So is really about reading whatever horse your working with at the time. But it's important to leave no holes, abd break the steps down so they can move onto the next thing confidently. Give them every chance to succeed. 

With your horse, short sessions Will get you farther in the long run. I would keep working on just desensitization to the whip, then give her a week or two off, then try again. It's important with young horses that they get periods of time to just be a horse. 

I think your current plan is okay, just give her the time she needs, give her the support she needs, abd listen when she's telling you something. Your doing good.


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## wbwks (Apr 5, 2014)

Hi Mustangmaiden,

There is no single way to train a horse, just like teaching people, most have their own method of learning. 

I have started many horses and the only thing I would strongly recommend doing is making sure she knows what "whoa" means before you ever get on her back. 

I have tried to correct a horse that had no whoa, simply getting more aggressive bits never (for me anyway) worked, she needs to understand how to whoa, give her head (flex) all the way to your knee on both sides with a gentle but steady hold on the rein. It doesn't matter if you use a bit or a rope halter, she needs to give because if she doesn't whoa, you can pull her around and stop. The actual riding, or getting on her back is the easy part (for me anyway) though it seems exciting. 

I am thrilled when mine listen to voice commands in the arena or round pen while on a lunge line to whoa, walk, slow down, trot, reverse, whoa. etc. 

For a stronger line of training videos, check out Clinton Anderson on you tube. Some like his techniques and some don't. He certainly gets his message across when the horse stops listening like your filly did several posts back. 

I pick and choose from his techniques occasionally. 

Good luck!


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## Spec (Jun 13, 2015)

SillyStallion said:


> Please bear in mind that lunging a 2yo is in no way taking things slowly.


Actually, most people do teach their two year olds how to be lunged. It's great to teach a young horse the basics of lunging, stopping at "whoa", yielding to pressure, etc. because they are at their most impressionable ages. Most of them are ready for that at two years old. However, I wouldn't ask for anything faster than a slow trot, because tight circles are hard on growing joints. Other than that, it's great to put their young minds to work on learning something new.


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

Thanks for all the advice! I actually just watched some Clinton Anderson last week, I like his techniques.
So I worked with her today for a little bit before the farrier came, and we had our ups and downs. We walked around, whoad (which she does really good), and then worked on backing up, and I gotta say, she finally "clicked" on backing up today. It just takes the very slightest pressure now, and we even worked on using "back" as a voice command and she was already catching on, it was pretty great! Especially since backing was our hardest thing to work through. I did sit on her again, still calm about it, I haven't had to whoa when sitting on her because she just stands still. I flexed her for the first time while sitting on her, she was great (in my opinion)! She was a bit stiff and slightly confused but when she realized what I was doing she pulled her head back to her shoulder, she never moved or tried to turn or anything, I was very proud! She's not super soft when I flex her, but she's already better than a lot of horses I've had and we still have time to practice. 
Then I started desensitizing with the whip, she was good for a few minutes, sniffed it, let me rub all over her with the stick part, but when I started touching her with the whip part and putting it over her back, she started throwing her head up and down, trying to walk off, and trying to bite me. I held her as still as I could and kept going until finally there was a few seconds where she stood still and started chewing, so I took that opportunity to stop and praise her, and then finished off with backing up and flexing again and giving her some grain before the farrier came. Hopefully I did that right, I feel like I did, but I don't know. I will say she was a little sassy all day, nipping at me and rubbing her head all over me, not sure if that was because it's nice out or maybe she's going into heat. 
Oh and on a side note, she wasn't too bad for the farrier, it was her first time and she was nervous and tried to walk off a lot, but we held her in place and got it all done without having to give her a shot or put her in the stocks. She's still not good at picking up her feet but her hooves were cracked and I didn't want them to keep getting worse while I trained her.


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## AnalisaParalyzer (Apr 25, 2012)

One thing you can do to help with the feet thing...pick up her feet a LOT. Add it into your everyday work. Flex, back, pick up fronts. Walk, yield, pick up backs. Tie, groom, pick up all four and pick them out. If she yanks out of your hand (my colt does every once in a while) stay bent over until she stops moving, pick it back up, finish picking it, or just hold it for a five count...praise. 

When she picks then all up relatively consistently...start taking a file, or a rough stick, or just a piece of flat metal, and rubbing it on the bottom of her hoof. Simulates what the farrier does, and helps her get used to the odd feeling. Tap on the bottom of the hoof, rub it on the bottom of the hoof, abd practise holding her hoof like a farrier would. This stuff really helps when it comes time for a trim.


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

I practice with her feet every time, for the most part we have a routine, she's getting better but it seems that learning to pick up her feet is the hardest thing I've tried teaching her so far, she actually does better with the back than the front, and also does better on the left than right. I think we'll get the hang of it soon. So was stopping when I did while desensitizing her the right move? 
I also wanted to talk about my friend who lunged her when I first brought her home. As we all know, she has a very "old fashioned cowboy" way about training, I see a lot of older people and people in my area doing the same things she does, which is why I didn't realize until I did more researching that it's not necessarily a good way to train a horse. So yesterday, she posted a video on Facebook lunging a horse for the first time, she had him running all around the round pen and getting after him with the whip (same as my horse but the video was only of the end result) and then she posted a video today, lunging him with the saddle on and the caption "not bad for his second day of training" now, I'm not sure if she meant 2nd day of lunging, or if they just started all of his training the day before, either way, after all the things I've talked to everyone about on here, and all the research I've been doing, I felt that it was too soon to be lunging this horse with a saddle on, but I didn't want to say anything because I don't want to be that person who tries to sound like they know everything about horses when they haven't been working with them that long, especially since she's trained quite a few. But a lot of people were telling her how good of a job she was doing, etc. and then someone commented and said that she shouldn't get after him in such a way that causes fear, to which she replied that she HAD to do that so he'd respect her, becuase when she first started lunging that day he was trying to run her over, kick her, and bite her.. So basically, the exact same thing she did with June. Even though I've still got so SO much to learn, I know waaay more now than I did the day I brought home June, and it was very interesting to see what she was doing with this horse from the same point of view that you guys seen what she did with June. Now i don't know for certain becuase I didn't talk to her about it, but I've seen her train horses before and I'm betting she didn't teach this horse how to perfectly back, yield, etc. before pushing him to lunge (at a lope I might add). She probably taught him to give to pressure walking around forward, and flex, and then went straight to lunging at full speed. Now with that being said, I respect that everyone has different ways of teaching their horses and some like to wait until they're 3 to put the halter on them and go very very slow, some like to do it at my pace, and some like to do a more cowboy approach like her, but I'm secretly a little excited to see how my horse and the horse she's training both turn out once they're finished. Maybe they'll be the same, maybe one will be better than the other, obviously we can't say anything for sure right now but I think it will be good to see first hand how different training techniques affect the horse.


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## Spec (Jun 13, 2015)

Here's a few little things about the horse world:

There is no one "right" way.
There is no one person with all the answers. 
Some things that work for some people and some horses can turn out to be a complete disaster for another person with another horse.
and the biggest, most relevant thing: horse people are STUBBORN

I've found that usually keeping to yourself is the best policy if you see someone doing something you disagree with, unless it's _clearly_ abuse. Trainers can be some of the worst of them. They will always pull the experience card and make you look foolish, no matter how valid your point may be.


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

Yeah that's why I didn't want say anything to her, becuase we both know she has more experience than me. But I think certain things will work for certain horses, for example she trains all her horses the same, and for the one I bought from her a while back, and hers that she rides all the time, that way worked great, they never tried to kick or bite when she taught them to lunge and she was riding them within 3 weeks and never had a problem, and that's awesome, but for the horse she's training now, I don't think it's the best way for him becuase he seems to be scared of the lunge whip and not know much yet, just like June. I never realized how different every single horse could be and how many different ways of training there are until I started researching, and I'm glad I'm taking the time to learn instead of sending June to just any ole trainer around here that may do it a way other than what I'd like for her


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## AnalisaParalyzer (Apr 25, 2012)

I would not say anything to her about it. The horse coughs turn out fine, it could turn out with holes in its training and fearful of people. But, it's not your horse, not your circus, not your monkeys. You do what's right for your horse. And leave it at that. 

As has been said over abd over...different people, different horses, different methods.


And yes, where you stopped with her with the desensitization was fine. You put the pressure on, she struggled, you reassured her, when she was calm, you took the pressure off. You did good.


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

Oh no, I won't say anything to her. I'm just interested to see if he'll turn out as good as her other horses or if he'll be more skiddish. And thanks for answering that! Glad I did it right. 
I was so excited when I flexed her while sitting on her without her trying to turn that I was practically yelling, my grandma was out there with me and I don't think she understood at all why I was so excited, she's doesn't know much about horses, not an animal person!
I really think once we get past the lunge whip thing that June will be the best little horse, she's so confident about everything else I try with her. I think she'll be great on the trails


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## mustangmaiden (Jan 27, 2016)

Whenever I back up June, wether I'm on the ground or on her back, or just barely putting any pressure or putting lots of pressure, she almost always tucks her head like this. Is this good? Bad? Totally normal?


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## SillyStallion (Feb 7, 2016)

mustangmaiden said:


> Whenever I back up June, wether I'm on the ground or on her back, or just barely putting any pressure or putting lots of pressure, she almost always tucks her head like this. Is this good? Bad? Totally normal?


It is common for young horses to overbend due to lack of balance. Building correct muscle through hill work, raised trotting poles (loose so they can find their own balance) will help them balance more. Rein back is hard for a horse - especially a young one.

You seem to have so many fundamental things that you need to be working with on the ground - establishing these first will help your horse long term in ridden work. I forget who said it but it went along the lines of 'by teaching the horse to move its feet on the ground, we will make it easier for it to understand moving it's feet when ridden'. Long lining is great for this - I teach all ridden cues on long lines before adding a rider as it avoids confusion for a youngster.


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

Funny how training techniques have changed - and not changed - over the past 30 years. 30 years ago, I'd be long-line longing my yearlings and ensuring they understood most groundwork. By 15-18 months, they were bitted and saddled, being ground driven, and being ponied out on trail rides. Around 2, I'd have the knees x-rayed, and if the caps had closed, it was time to start working them under saddle. Never had any problems.

Now, with my coming-4 RMH, I'm spending a lot more time on the ground work. I'll stick with a lot of the stuff I used to do, like ground driving, before I climb aboard, but then, I'm older and breakable now.  

One thing I didn't do then, and rarely do now, is free, or liberty longe work. I'm a firm believer that if a horse isn't on a line, he should be allowed to be a horse. The only caveat to that statement is that they ALWAYS understand I'm the boss.


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

mustangmaiden said:


> Whenever I back up June, wether I'm on the ground or on her back, or just barely putting any pressure or putting lots of pressure, she almost always tucks her head like this. Is this good? Bad? Totally normal?


I know you said she does even with barely any pressure, but you are definitely cranking her head in this pic. If you had a less well-mannered filly, I can imagine he going backwards.

Undersaddle you need FORWARD first and foremost. Don't mess around with her like this until she's got forward.


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