# My Horse "Lips" Me... Training Help Please!



## RedTree (Jan 20, 2010)

I'm not the best at advice but I would stop the behaviour as it can get alot worse. He may start to actually bite you. If my horsewas doing that I would give him a tap on the nose... scold maybe but I'm not to sure....
Hopefully that helps


----------



## RioPony (Jul 12, 2010)

Yeah that's what I was thinking I need to do but I've never had to deal with a mouthy horse before so I'm at a complete loss for what to do.


----------



## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

^^ That isn't acceptable behavior. Whether he wants to play or not isn't the issue. Horses need to know their boundaries and rely on their owners - the alpha horse - to set them. What may seem like something cute at first, can quickly become a dangerous habit. 

The way to stop it is to bob him on the nose as he reaches to lip you. Do it once, make it instantaneous, and yell at him at the same time. Do NOT bob him several times or wait to do it. After you've done it, just continue whatever you were doing as nothing has happened. 

You need to teach your horse that he is not allowed in your space and that you are the herd leader - he needs to respect you as such.


----------



## Scoutrider (Jun 4, 2009)

I agree with iride.The lipping can really easily escalate into nipping and full-out biting. However you go about dealing with it, consistency is key. 

I've been helping an older couple with their 14 y/o QH, who's piggy in general on the ground, including lipping almost constantly and occasionally biting. I don't tolerate it, and employ iride's technique when I groundwork him. The trouble is, the owners let it slide when he only lips, and get mad when he uses his teeth, but don't react fast enough for him to associate any unpleasantness with the behavior. :? He gets confused, and is still very lippy.


----------



## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Lipping is dominance behavior, similiar to licking in dogs. When the horse lips you, what he's really saying is that he's the alpha. So it is very important to correct the behavior, and re-establish your self as alpha. 

I would correct pretty much exacty as Iride has described.


----------



## spirithorse8 (Jun 30, 2010)

At the time he 'starts' to nibble, take your fingers of one hand and dig them into the inside of the lower lip, and at the same time tell him no in a low pitch firm voice.
It will probably take several efforts before he gets the message.


----------



## G and K's Mom (Jan 11, 2008)

spirithorse8 said:


> At the time he 'starts' to nibble, take your fingers of one hand and dig them into the inside of the lower lip, and at the same time tell him no in a low pitch firm voice.
> It will probably take several efforts before he gets the message.


Okay........ I don't know if this is good advise for kids.......I envision fingers taking the brunt.:lol:

A bump under his chin or on his nose is the easiest and safest for you. If he's doing it while your grooming or tacking up let him run into Mr Elbow a few times, he'll get the message.

Stop the hand feeding, if you want to give treats put them in a bucket.


----------



## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

Yes, a lot of the time horses will become nippy or "lippy" like this because they are demanding treats or food from you. I would follow the suggestion not to hand feed him and give him a good bop on the nose when he's bothering you with those lips.


----------



## TheLastUnicorn (Jun 11, 2010)

It's a play thing. And it's NOT acceptable unless you really want to start playing with him (which I doubt... since "horse play" is generally rather rough)

I avoid any contact with a "lippy" horse's nose. It's a "play" button for them and can actually escalate the issue. (so no grabbing/rubbing their muzzle, no 'bopping' them on the nose when they do something naughty etc.)

I used to just stick my elbow out, or even smack the nose. One day a particularly "obnoxious" colt decided to take it as open invitation to jump on me... and an old "cowboy" watching (and laughing at me) told me what I did wrong, and gave me another method to use. I've found it far more effective.

I will push their head away at the cheek (if you watch horses interact with each other the alpha will use this area as a "QUIT IT" zone), or in a horse who just won't quit, I'll actually rap them with my knuckles in that same spot. (If I draw a triangle from the each corner of the eye, where those two "lines" intersect is the "GET BACK" target zone)... I keep going until the horse moves back AND away from me (or starts to anyhow... I will follow up if they stop going back, but usually they keep going). As long as I don't miss my "target" or screw up on the timing it won't create a head shy horse.


----------



## King (Jun 25, 2010)

Obie bites me very lightly as he wants to play. I firmly tell him 'no' and smack him lightly on his lips (not hurting him.. just shocks him!)
He does it as.. "Mummy.. I'm bored, play with me!"


----------



## RioPony (Jul 12, 2010)

I'm just worried about making him head shy from popping his nose or face. So if I use that method, does it make some horses head shy?


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Only if you use it excessively or inconsistently. Make sure to take time to rub him all over his face, mouth, ears every day and that will negate any shyness that he may develop. However, don't rub him right after you give him a pop. Just react and then go back to whatever you were doing. I will mention that there is some horses that this doesn't work with. Another method that I have used is to make them work when they nip, as that usually accompanies them invading your space. The instant that they step into my space or start to nip, I will make them run backward. I will advance at a brisk walk and start popping the halter (more effective with a rope halter) until they are backing up fast enough to stay ahead of you and out of your space. After a few seconds then just lead them back up to wherever you were and continue on about your business. That also works for horses that walk into you when you are leading them and stop moving.


----------



## Cougar (Jun 11, 2009)

maura said:


> Lipping is dominance behavior, similiar to licking in dogs. When the horse lips you, what he's really saying is that he's the alpha. So it is very important to correct the behavior, and re-establish your self as alpha.
> 
> I would correct pretty much exacty as Iride has described.


I think it's a bit more individual than that. Both my dog and my horse Cougar are lickers. Neither have dominance issues and both are ver obedient. It doesn't interfere with their manners and if you say knock it off they do. Just like my dog is allowed on furniture and to sleep in bed but he's been taught to wait to be invited up if a human is on the couch and gets off if you tell him to. I've had dogs that were not allowed on furniture due to guarding it but he doesn't display that behavior. So he gets the privledge of coming up on the couch.

My young TB mare doesn't get that privledge as she is a big girl with a mind of her own and without clear boundries she'll get bossy. If you don't like the behavior or the behaviors stemming from something like being lippy then stop it but it doesn't always equal to a horse trying to dominate you.


----------



## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Cougar, 

You're right, I wasn't clear or specific enough. smrobs explanation was much better than mine. 

Licking can be dominance behavior, but is not always. I have a horse that when you walk up to him to greet hiim with a hand out will lick your hand; but since it doesn't include coming into my space or any avoidance behaviors, I don't consider it dominance behavior. If he did the same thing while I was leading, grooming, tacking up, etc., I'd view it differently. 

I don't care for licking in dogs and have never allowed any of mine to do so, but I believe it's *face* licking that's truly the dominance behavior - the alpha dog may lick other pack members in the face, but no pack member is allowed to do it to the alpha.


----------



## RioPony (Jul 12, 2010)

I know this isn't a dog forum [lol] but I always heard & thought face/mouth licking was a behavior learned as a puppy when they start eating meat [usually in the wild] that stimulates the mother to regurgitate food for her young. They keep this behavior throughout life and especially do it to the alpha to show respect. I've always looked at dogs and wolves licking the face/mouth area of someone is saying they respect you as a caregiver and/or leader.
But maybe I was wrong?

Thanks smsrobs, that should help a lot if popping him in the face won't work. I went out and did some ground work the other day and when I walked up to him a began to do his little lippy thing and I popped him on the nose. When he did it again I did it a tiny bit harder and he seemed to get the point pretty quick. He didn't do it the rest of my time out there


----------



## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Rio, 

Clearly I should stick to horse advice! Or just stay out of this thread!

I did some quick Googling, and you're right, I had the dog thing backwards. Submissive dogs lick the alpha. 

Okay, I'm going to go find a different thread to post in. Yeeeeessshhhh!


----------



## Alicia (Mar 21, 2009)

My horse is incredibly mouthy as well. He puts everything in his mouth (I mean everything). One thing I do when he's just lipping or nuzzleing (sp), is I rub his nose (briskly) until he moves away. The idea being it's annoying to him. If he attempts biting, then he gets a bop on his nose. Either way once I do the required discipline I continue doing whatever it was I was doing before.


----------



## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

RioPony said:


> My horse does this thing where he takes my clothes and skin in between his lips. It's kind of like he's biting me with his lips. Like, I can tell he's not trying to hurt me but it's extremely dangerous. He has pinched me with his teeth before and it hurts. I'm not quite sure what kind of behavior this is because he's not doing it in a threatening, "back off" way (with his ears pinned back and stuff).


You're the boss and you need to decide if and how your horse touches you. Some horse love to play and touch, pick up, and carry things...our mare Lady is like this. Personally, I don't mind if she plays with my shirt, steals the hoove pick out of my back pocket with her lips, or walks off with my tools, but she has learned that there is absolutely no pinching, grabbing, or teeth...that would get her a smack. Many folks find it easier to avoid the whole problem and not allow any touching at all or no hand feeding at all, and that's fine too. The bottom line is that you can set any limit you want and if you're consistent, your horse will understand, and you won't have a problem.


----------



## Hevonen (Jul 8, 2010)

give him a nice bop on the face. not a full blown slap but not a wimpy girl shooing either. he needs to know that that behavior is not ok and he will get the message most likely. my friend has a horse that as you say "lips" her and she bops his face away. the horse is actually kinda funny and when she bops his face away, he looks at her all offended and shuns her for like a minute. 
sorry off topic but i would try this. be the boss. do not let the horse get away with naughty behavior like that.


----------



## justinebee (Jul 21, 2010)

i know what you're saying about not wanting him to become headshy. i've noticed that with the horses that i work with, if i simply make a quick snap at them (like a snap with my fingers), but dont ever touch their face, it gets the job done without making them headshy. it startles them-which is what bopping them also does-but you dont come in contact with the face, so they don't become headshy. your energy while you're doing it makes it more effective as well..


----------



## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Keep his face and mouth away from you. It's pretty simple. None of my horses or any horse I handle is allowed to touch any part of me with thier head or mouth. I can touch any part of them I want but they must be invited to touch me and I rarely invite them and I never invite them to touch any part of me with thier mouth.


----------



## Danjones (Mar 17, 2010)

i aggree with last unicorn push his head away and sy hey in a firm rough voice horses dont like it i had a similar problem with my own horse she would get lippy when i had her flexing her neck under saddle she would play with my jeans so i brought my foot up towards her face and told her off and we no longer have the problem


----------



## flamingauburnmustang (Dec 25, 2008)

Hevonen said:


> give him a nice bop on the face. not a full blown slap but not a wimpy girl shooing either. he needs to know that that behavior is not ok and he will get the message most likely. my friend has a horse that as you say "lips" her and she bops his face away. the horse is actually kinda funny and when she bops his face away, he looks at her all offended and shuns her for like a minute.
> sorry off topic but i would try this. be the boss. do not let the horse get away with naughty behavior like that.


I have also seen people going to either extremes. Some people will "scold" their horse with a sweet voice softly pushing their head away, or some people grabbing their horse, yanking halter/bridle and screaming at them. :roll:

Like the others said, be firm when he lips you, but not horrible so that he starts to resent your company. You want a horse that feels safe and comfortable around you, but must still respect you. :wink:


----------

