# Thoughts on Gypsy Vanners?



## Southern Grace (Feb 15, 2013)

They're insanely expensive, most are around 13hh, they can do basic riding but usually don't excel in any sport (they are fun to drive and pleasure ride, I've even seen a few to compete in low level eventing). Farrier care will cost a lot. But overall, they're not a hyper breed, not usually spooky. You're usually paying for color and hair rather than a good minded, well trained horse.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

I agree with Southern Grace. They are a TON of maintenance because of all the hair. They tend to get scratches easy if you're not careful and keep them in a dry paddock or stall. They also don't all look like what you see in the pictures. Some have more hair than others and it takes a LOT of brushing and maintenance to keep it fluffy and silky like you see in the pictures. They tend to be heavy movers who are, like Southern Grace said, not really masters of any discipline. You have to remember that they were bred to pull wagons and be the occasional short-term mount. Vanners tend to be smaller, while drums tend to be in the 15hh range. But, drums are harder to find, so therefore cost more.


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## Sherian (Aug 28, 2012)

a friend breeds Gypsy Cobs. They are nice tempered, people oriented, easy keepers, fun, low level all around horses. Hers ride, drive, will pop over small jumps with decent style (though they do tend to have to do the adds due to shorter stride). The feather is some maintenance to keep it show ready, but if you are not showing on the breed circuit there is no reason why you can't clip it. They are prone to scratches. Hers tend to be around the 14hh range, but they are big barreled and I was surprised at how well they take up my leg (I'm 5'8"). 
Not sure why Southern Grace said farrier care will cost a lot - the ones I know have nice feet and do well barefoot.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

My neighbor has five. She rides none of them, but she does drive them. And she complains of the grooming effort to keep all that hair nice looking.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

If you are looking for a quiet stocky short horse there are other breeds like Haflingers which are cheaper and less maintenance.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

On one hand, I think you should look at individuals rather than breeds 
On the other hand, I understand being set on something and I don't see anything wrong with narrowing your search to a particular breed. I just think, if you go that route, you have to be prepared to make certain sacrifices. These could be financial (as stated above, the excess hair can require more upkeep), aesthetic (if you're not willing to pay, your GV might look a little funny with a roached mane and no feathers), or in regards to competition (generally, GVs tend not to exceed at high levels of any show).


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

The farriers here class that as a draft breed and charge more for any care even trims.


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## RemingtonDiva (Nov 12, 2016)

I would adore one, but I can not afford one 

I think as a first horse perhaps the care side may be a little much? Their feathers can attract mites and other issues.

I personally think a first horse should be pretty low maintenance. It takes so much time to learn.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Of course, there is the individual horse thing, but they are in what I consider still a 'breeder's market,thus the inflated price, based not on their proven performance,but in their novelty on this side of the ocean (supply and demand )
They are bred to be small draft horses and that was their purpose in Europe
To me, they remain a pulling horse, not a riding horse, and for the same amount of money, I expect that you find find a pretty nice beginner horse.


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## Jan1975 (Sep 7, 2015)

We have a breeder about an hour from me, and they are stunning! But, they are insanely expensive. I guess if I had extra $$$ to toss around I'd consider it, although maybe not because I don't really even like brushing my own hair for too long. I think you could get a LOT more horse for your $ with another breed unless your budget is unlimited.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Gypsy cobs/gypsy vanners
You can go to a sale in the UK and get one for close to nothing now. They're probably the most over bred and abandoned horses/ponies in the country. It would probably be cheaper to buy a gelding over there through an agent and get it shipped than it is to buy one in the US
If you buy one that was well bred for riding as opposed to driving then they're usually easy going and as versatile as any other horse - if you want to go up the levels in jumping, dressage, eventing then you aren't going to be looking at that type of breed but if you just want a low level fun horse then they've been the mainstay of British trekking centres and riding schools for years and years
You don't have to have all the hair if you don't want to show them, I keep our cob's legs clipped and her mane and tail the same length as any other horse
My farrier doesn't charge any extra for her feet but she's barefoot for most of the time and my DH does them himself


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

when i worked at a gypsy farm i found out that most of them had CHRONIC PROGRESSIVE LYMPHEDEMA (CPL) aka leg cancer and where considered "old" at 14 because they did not live as long because of the leg cancer. idk if this is something that can be avoided by better breeding or what but as beautiful as they are i would avoid owning one.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I know plenty of people who've had them live long healthy lives so maybe those were genetically susceptible - people importing them from one specific UK breeder. Most of the ones that first came here did come from Gypsies and they do tend to leave them in a field to get on with it so a lot of inbreeding going on. 
There's no getting away from the fact that a lot of Americans got well and truly conned. One of the biggest sellers in the early days is now regularly in and out of prison on horse neglect charges


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

it was a big gypsy farm out here and they had an expensive operation. selling most of their horses for 35k! every horse over 5 i handled had the cancer. it might have been a breeder issue as i cant see something like that as being normal.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

It doesn't sound normal. 
Before the Americans 'discovered' these cobs they were selling for normal prices, the nice one's would make more if they were suitable for UK cob classes and a nice piebald or skewbald would make a bit more if it was well mannered but a lot were bred just for the European meat trade before the passport restrictions reduced that market. The American demand made prices rocket but a lot of rubbish got sold here. Now the demands dropped they're back to being sold for normal prices again but an awful lot are in rescue centres or just get euthanised


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

yeah the focused on color and hair quality. they came in everything from pinto, cramello, palomino, roans, duns to appy markings. so any and every color, modification and pattern imaginable. they where beautiful and i honestly would love one but not with the emance health issues theirs had. along with the fact they had to put swamp coolers in the paddocks and barns so they did not cook in the arizona summers.


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## Southern Grace (Feb 15, 2013)

Yes, when I lived in Ireland we purchased a clam, broke bay tobiano Gypsy gelding with decent hair and feather for €50. It just astounds me how much they sell for here. They're pretty, but for me they belong in a photo on the wall while I have my sport horse to ride.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Pretty , far as hair, refinement, not so much. JMO !


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

This is purely anecdotal, but tends to confirm what everyone else is saying: I kow someone who has a couple. Paid an arm and a leg for them, but really doesn't do anything with them. My trimmer does their feet. She says that of the 50 or so horses she trims, those Gypsy Vanners are the worst. Hooves are a mess, but worse, they're extremely belligerant and difficult to handle. Again, this may not be representative of the breed, but I haven't heard of a lot of people buying them for temperament, personality or athletic ability. They seem to be bred solely for looks


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## Jan1975 (Sep 7, 2015)

I'm so sad to hear that they've been bred based on looks & not health, which has led to more prevalent health issues.  People are jerks.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Seems to me that the bad attitude thing is more of a result of inbreeding and people adding Arabian blood or similar into them to get a flashier look because there's no way they would be so popular in the UK and Eire for riding schools and trekking centres if they were difficult to ride or handle, they're the sort of thing you expect to be able to put a real novice on and they'll be safe.
You see loads of them out hunting, British Dressage now has classes specifically for Traditional Cobs (in conjunction with the Traditional Gypsy Cob Assoc), they aren't as useless as some people seem to be making them out to be
British Dressage


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## savvylr (Jan 8, 2016)

We have a gypsy vanner at the barn and she is a dollbaby, but her feathers were not properly groomed and cared for by her past owner (before B.O. bought her) and she ended up with Chronic Progressive Lymphedema that will need treatment for the rest of her life. They caught it in time so it does not affect her soundness, however it is a lot of upkeep.

I would not suggest them as a first horse. Expensive and high maintenance, not to mention they can be a bit of a clunky ride.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I have two friends, one has two, the other has one. They got them at no cost.

The precious owners tired of maintaining the coats. Although they are fun to play around on or drive (if you aren't in a hurry). We don't find them to have the endurance of lighter breeds. They are not the smoothest gaited. 

To me, they are fun to have if you like grooming and the cob isn't your only horse.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

they can get the CPL from bad grooming? i always thought it was a leg cancer issue and was more genetic then something caught. the barn i worked at cleaned the feathers every 3 days and blow dryed them with a dog grooming dryer (that was fun to watch with horses green to it.....)


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

CPL is swelling in the lower leg from poor lymphatic function that effects circulation, causes swelling in the pastern area, fluid transport is inhibited, immunity is compromised and secondary infections can be severe. Many times it is missed in horses with heavy feathering due to poor grooming practices but it isn't caused by them. Even with really good grooming early lesions and skin folds are missed. Scratches can look like beginning stages of CPL and can become extensive and chronic as well leading to CPL. While the genetic factor has not been identified studies suggest it is an inheritable condition.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Pretty good article on it from UCDavis
About
It points to Clydesdales and Shires as being highly susceptible too it and the Gypsy Cobs and Vanners are a result of breeding down from the bigger British Draft horses over many years so that makes sense if there's a genetic link
I don't know if its to do with the actual feathers or if the feathers hide it so it doesn't get noticed until its really bad because I've seen it in Draft crosses that always had their legs clipped


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

I have a horse with treatment resistant scratches and has one leg that looks like this. They aren't calling it CPL though she looks like one leg is a tree trunk. I did research on it when we basically ran out of treatments that would work on her lesions and swelling would no longer come out of that leg. If I had to guess because it is tied in so much so with horses with heavy feathering that it occurs on those genes. You don't see it as often on Bels except in the lines that they bred heavily for more feathers and even those with little feather get it. Since you are also breeding with feathering in mind (who wants a Clyde or Shire with scant feather) and you see it more in some lines than others, I always figured it stood to reason.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

They're very prone to getting mange mites in their feathers which can cause a lot of problems if they don't get preventative care and treatment, if the horse is badly infested it will look exactly like 'scratches'. The people in the UK that I know who have feathered horses use pig oil (mineral oil) and Sulphur but if the mites are really bad you have to look at using Ivermectin, a fipronil based application or dectomax injections (not sure if you can get that here)


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

That mare has had so many scrapings as well as a couple of biopsies done and mites were never present but we use ivermectin for worming and had also used fipronil spray as a just in case they missed something plus steroids. Most of the draft people kept sulphur and mineral around for that reason and used it sort of as a preventative when everyone was together as you just never knew when someone would use the wrong brushes on the wrong horses as there were so many eager and wanting to help. I'd have to look back to see what the injections were as she has had several rounds. Mostly antibiotics and steroids but there were some other things given. We have a lime/sulphur dip that was given for use but that is so caustic and really irritated the lesions even though we were careful to just apply to areas without lesions. It still drips.


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## Uze (Feb 23, 2013)

I have a filly that's only a little gypsy, but looks most like a gypsy. (She is Fjord/Shire/Gypsy). She's the only horse I've ever seen in PERSON that has gypsy, so the only one I can base my experience off is her. She is the most willing almost 3 year old I've ever met. This filly has the absolute sweetest personality, exactly what you like and want in a draft horse. Once she trusts you, she'll really do anything for you. Her temperament is bar none the best one in any horse I've personally owned or leased. (Except, believe it or not, a 22 year old appy. That horse was worth it's weight in gold.) 

NOW. Since mine is not full gypsy, or even full shire (The gypsy/shire comes from her Drum father), she is not as heavily feathered as a purebred vanner. She does have a lot of feathering, but not to the extent of pure one. I find her amount of feathers satisfying in looks, and in care. I'm not sure if they will get much thicker/longer, but I hope they don't lol. I love the amount of feathers she has right now.

She DOES have an extremely long and thick mane. HOWEVER, I have not found her mane hard at all to take care of. My arm gets really tired when I have to take 30 min to brush it out, but she has a really good mane and barely ever gets tangles in it. It is a heavy mane though.

She came from a different state than mine, one where it actually gets extremely cold, so she got to me with an extremely long winter coat. I clipped her (I live in FL. So she went from 4F degree weather to like 70F) and her coat is very soft and nice. She is a joy to groom, and she really enjoys it too. 

Now, her feet. My farrier doesn't charge anymore for her than my other horses. She is barefoot, and according to my farrier has great feet. It is $30 to get her trimmed. 

Since my girl isn't backed yet, I'm not sure how her movements will feel under saddle. But just because they don't excel at high levels of competition, doesn't mean everyone WANTS it for that reason. I don't even show. I never have and possibly never will. It's not really something I agree with or like for myself. But there's so many other things you can do with horses than show. And maybe you do want to show, who cares if you only want to compete in lower levels? If I ever did show, that's what I'd do. I personally plan on riding her in my towns parade every year once she's backed, and also doing a lot of trails with her depending on her physique when she's older. Also plan on doing some driving with her, once I find someone to get driving lessons from. I've also considered western dressage, or even some other discipline because it looks like fun!

It annoys me so much when people say "oh this breed can't do this, can't do that." LOL says who?? Sure they probably won't exceed in the higher levels, but not everyone cares about that. The people that want to exceed in higher levels aren't buying a €50 pony. Nothing wrong with local shows, low level shows, or just learning it because it's FUN. Shows and competition aren't everything. 

I feel like halter quarter horses get the most hate, with vanners being a close second. 

This is what I would do if I were you. If you like the LOOK of a vanner, but don't want to pay the completely asinine US prices, and don't mind about showing or purity, get a cross. You can still have a horse that looks like a vanner, but doesn't have as much feathering, maybe has a little more athleticism, or anything else. Crosses can sometimes be better than either original parent breed. And you can almost always find them cheaper because they aren't purebred. Also, look out of state. Around the whole US, really.


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## cbahn2009 (Mar 15, 2017)

What are you looking to do with your horse? (trail, show, jump, etc... )


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

As a first horse, why not get a breed that is meant to be under saddle? I briefly considered a Percheron cross when I was looking for my first horse, but his ride was anything but smooth. That's fine for him as Percherons are not bred to be saddled, but it didn't make him a good first horse for someone wanting to learn to ride.


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## IndiesaurusRex (Feb 23, 2011)

I'm very much a cob advocate, but working with them every day will do that to you. Personally, I wouldn't have one for myself, as I prefer something with more leg. But you can't find a more adaptable, good natured horse than a good ol' cob.

I fully get that yes, they were originally driving horses, and are built for that. But unless you're looking to go above a medium dressage test (not sure what level in US terms), or high jumps, then a cob can probably do it. They will live on fresh air for the most part, have good feet and if you don't like the hair, guess what? You can clip it off.

I'll post this video highlight what I mean about cobs being versatile and good natured. For those of you who don't know about Appleby, it's the biggest traveller gathering in Europe, thousands of people descend there every year. I've been there myself with my work and it is admittedly, insane. We provide welfare advice to those there on footcare in their trotters, keeping good condition, proper tack fitting etc. We are also there to assist in seizing horses or providing vet care if necessary.

I don't see a single cob in this video pulling faces or acting at all with any attitude, they just do as they're told, even in these hectic circumstances.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Well, a horse that is only about a third, if that Gypsy,is not going to give you a true indication of the breed, or any breed , for that matter
Response to Uze's post
There are many different types of cobs, aren't there? 
I think that if you are in Europe-most likely a good choice, far as a steady mount, as they are cold bloods, are they not?
If you are in North America, where they are still more of a novelty, you are paying for that fact
Not sure where the op is located


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## Uze (Feb 23, 2013)

Smilie said:


> Well, a horse that is only about a third, if that Gypsy,is not going to give you a true indication of the breed, or any breed , for that matter
> Response to Uze's post
> There are many different types of cobs, aren't there?
> I think that if you are in Europe-most likely a good choice, far as a steady mount, as they are cold bloods, are they not?
> ...


This was literally the second line in my post. "She's the only horse I've ever seen in PERSON that has gypsy, so the only one I can base my experience off is her."


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## 247001 (Feb 16, 2017)

cbahn2009 said:


> What are you looking to do with your horse? (trail, show, jump, etc... )


mainly trail and the occasional small local shows, I found a few other horses that we are going to go look at for riding because the gypsy I was looking at that I fell in love with, it turns out that he cannot be ridden anymore. Which is fine with me, when the new barn is up were going to adopt him anyway if hes not already taken by then. Hes just a sweet older gelding that needs a home as a companion horse.


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## 6gun Kid (Feb 26, 2013)

redandmonty said:


> when the new barn is up were going to adopt him anyway if hes not already taken by then. Hes just a sweet older gelding that needs a home as a companion horse.


 Well that is certainly cool!


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

boots said:


> I have two friends, one has two, the other has one. They got them at no cost.
> 
> The* precious* owners tired of maintaining the coats. Although they are fun to play around on or drive (if you aren't in a hurry). We don't find them to have the endurance of lighter breeds. They are not the smoothest gaited.
> 
> To me, they are fun to have if you like grooming and the cob isn't your only horse.


Previous. Previous owners. lol 

I have no idea whether the people were "precious," though their mothers probably would have thought so. lol 

(stupid smart phone)


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