# Feel like I'm being taken advantage of...



## Tihannah

This is not a situation I can't address or handle, but at this point, I'm on the fence about looking into other options. The place I found to take lessons started out to be a great place. My issue is more with the board owner, and not the actual lessons as I've worked with 2 other really great instructors and have been very happy with my progress.

1. On the website, lessons are priced at $190 for 6 Semi-Private lessons and $270 for 6 private lessons. Before my first lesson, I discussed leasing a specific horse with her and she agreed to half-lease him to me after a couple lessons on one of her lesson horses for $300 month and this would include lessons. After I give her the money, she discloses that they have found an issue with his rear-end and he will be out for a few weeks, and the $300 would be for 4 lessons. Huh??? A few weeks have passed, but the diagnosis is now unclear on whether or not he will ever be able to be ridden further than a trot. 

2. A couple weeks ago, I was being offered a 13 yr old saddlebred gelding for free from a friend from work who was more concerned with getting him out of the show atmosphere and into a regular good home. The board owner went with me to look at the horse. There were a lot of concerns and issues and I decided to pass on him, but she was quick to tell me that boarding him with her would be $500 a month. Her website states that pasture boarding is $300/month and Stall boarding is $400/month. :?

3. Yesterday after my lesson, she tried to talk me into buying the mare I've been taking lessons on and saying how she thinks she is a good fit for me, blah, blah, blah. I've taken 3 lessons on this horse. They give her ace before every lesson because she spooks easily, and we have to lunge her at least 20 minutes before I can ride her on a lead with the trainer. Yesterday they put ear plugs in her ears, just in case someone decided to start shooting out there. She bites and broke the skin of a barn hand during my lesson last week. I have to swat her a few times during a lesson cause she tries to bite my boot. She is NOT my forever horse by any means, but what really annoyed me is the trainer trying to convince me of things that I KNEW were not true about this horse. 5 minutes later she asked if I wanted to buy a saddle as they were going to look at some. I said, "I thought you waited to buy a saddle until you had a horse?"

Finally, when I took my first lesson there, it was revealed to me that a previous trainer had left and half of the barn's clients went with her. I never got the whole story, but what I have witnessed thus far makes me not surprised at all. Because she lost most of her clientele, I feel like she is trying to recuperate her losses by over charging me for services and trying to sell me a horse I don't want.

The downside of looking at other options is that I would like to continue working with the 2 trainers that I have done lessons with. One, especially, has a wealth of knowledge and resources and has taught me so much in the few lessons I've had. She is also the person I'd like to have help me select my first horse when the time comes. She was there yesterday when the owner was trying to sales pitch me on the mare, and just sat there in silence, but I could tell she did not agree with what the owner was telling me, but did not want to intercede. However, this trainer, with more than 40 yrs experience, has stated numerous times that I am not ready for my first horse and that I should continue taking lessons and building my riding skill until I'm ready and know exactly what I want in a horse. I had my first lesson with the other trainer yesterday as she has been out from an injury, and she was just great. 

I don't have contact info on either of these ladies since they are both working through the board owner, and I don't really want to make a sticky situation between them and the owner. I've had 4 lessons thus far, and I'm sure the owner will be asking for another check soon. I've already spoken with 2 other stables that have cheaper options in the area, but I hate to not work with these trainers anymore. I will not pay her for leasing a horse I don't have the option to ride either. All of this has come off as rather shady and now I have a bad taste in my mouth from it, but I'm unsure what to do next. Thoughts??


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## EncinitasM

Talk to the trainer(s) you like and see what options exist for continuing training with them at a different place.

It sounds to me like the owner sees you as a naive cash cow who exists only to be taken advantage of.


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## Overread

Sounds like whatever drama happened cause the owner to suddenly lose a huge lump of regular cash and is now left likely operating at a much reduced level of profit if any at all. 

Thus a sudden need to up costs above what are advertised on the website (unless its regularly updated many places Start a website and then don't update them for ages so its not totally abnormal for prices to change and not be on the website). 

And a sudden desire to offload horses anywhere she can for sales money - however I'd say there's a difference between selling a less than ideal horse and boasting of its prowess and one which honestly sounds rather dangerous to one with inexperience. 

That said you could easily:

1) Be more firm on pricing. If something changes that reduces what you get re-negotiate the deal.

2) If she offers something at a high price don't just take it - negotiate for a lower price (esp if she's advertising lower prices elsewhere) 

3) Ignore her attempting to sell things outside of lessons. 

Least ways that would let you work with the trainers whilst generally dealing with the owners desire to fleece as much cash out of you as she can (and chances are she's trying it with everyone - and if she's been doing that since before the other trainer left it might well be the reason why = or at least part of the reason). 

Other option is to talk to the trainers directly; heck they might be considering leaving in a months time themselves. 

Or get out and learn somewhere else - there many good people out there willing to teach nad a big part of learning is having the right environment - if you don't trust and don't have faith in your environment you won't learn as well (esp if every time you pay for lessons you get the feeling that you're being overcharged each and every time).


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## Acadianartist

Talk to the trainers and see if they offer lessons elsewhere. I had a similar experience at a barn where my daughter was taking lessons at 40$ per lesson. While sitting in the viewing room with some stable hands, I overheard them saying lessons cost 30$. Then she started pressuring me to lease a horse for my daughter, sign her up for after-school riding and even tried to get me to buy a dog from her sister. I just left. We've found a MUCH better barn with better horses and by far, the best coach my daughter has ever had. No pressure and I don't feel I'm being milked. A really good riding stable should not have to resort to such tactics to make money.


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## Sunnylucy

I would look to find another place, and look there for trainers first, you might even like them better. I wouldn't stay at this place because: 1) You have been lied to and led along to get your money; 2) they tried to pressure you into buying a horse that is not right for you so trust is out the window that they will do right by you; 3) higher prices for you than advertised is deceitful; and 4) the trainer should have been able to respectfully voice her opinion on what is right for her student, that she didn't because she is either afraid to or whatever would be a red flag for me. There is a reason the others left.


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## DancingArabian

Run away. Run far away.

Do not buy a horse from them. Do not board there. Do not pre-pay for your lessons if you don't have to. If you HAVE to, get something in writing. If you like the trainers, speak to them privately about if they offer lessons elsewhere.


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## Tihannah

Here is my biggest issue with leaving. The one trainer that I would love to work with is not really employed by the barn owner as much as friends or associates with her. Her property is very close by and I think she comes by to help out and give much needed input and instructions simply because she loves it. I'm not sure, but I also think the board owner may be leasing the property from her. The owner worships her and its easy to see why. When I say this woman has an EXTENSIVE background in the "horse world", I mean seriously extensive. She's organized the Winter Classics for the past 17 yrs and travels all over the country in different roles in major horse events. She's trained horses and riders that have competed Grand Prix and internationally. She's very down to earth and one of her trades is finding good horses to match riders within their budget and her resources and knowledge are staggering. She's taken horses that other people have dumped as a loss and turned them into winners. She's even friends with someone that owns one of the horses that raced in the Kentucky Derby yesterday. To be able to learn from her is an amazing opportunity that I hate to pass up.

I think if I voiced my concerns with her, I could get some solid feedback. It's just talking to her away from the owner. I just want to tread easily as I don't really know the full scope of their relationship. I have a lesson this Wednesday, and since the owner only comes down on weekends cause she lives out of town, there's a good chance I'll be working with the trainer alone. I'll just need to find a way to broach the subject.


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## Endiku

You're a brand new rider right? I think it is ridiculous for her to be trying to sell you a horse already at all, much less a spooky, biting mare that is ACED for lessons on a lead line!!! A horse like that wouldn't even fetch a few hundred dollars here.

You're absolutely being taken advantage of. I get that you really like the trainer, so see if you can get her number nonchalantly, and work something out with her, but GET OUT OF THAT BARN. It's a recipe for disaster and the BO sounds utterly ridiculous to deal with.


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## Tihannah

Endiku said:


> You're a brand new rider right? I think it is ridiculous for her to be trying to sell you a horse already at all, much less a spooky, biting mare that is ACED for lessons on a lead line!!! A horse like that wouldn't even fetch a few hundred dollars here.
> 
> You're absolutely being taken advantage of. I get that you really like the trainer, so see if you can get her number nonchalantly, and work something out with her, but GET OUT OF THAT BARN. It's a recipe for disaster and the BO sounds utterly ridiculous to deal with.


Yes, I rode in my teen years, but never had formal training or rode English, so I'm starting from the ground up. However, I've already begun establishing some basics of what I want when I decide to buy and I DO NOT want a young mare (7yrs). I want a gelding, preferably between 12-15 yrs old, that can be a pleasure horse first (fine on trails,traffic,dogs,etc.) with potential to show for fun. I've expressed this to the owner and trainer a few times, so it threw me off that she would even suggest this mare for me. She is definitely not the kind of horse you can take on trails when she's so uneasy in the arena that she's been in countless times.


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## Endiku

I'm glad that you seem to know what you want. Stick by it! Anyone who deviates and rushes into buying something they're not ready for regrets it terribly, and sometimes gets hurt. And even as experienced riders not everyone wants a horse like that. _*I*_ wouldn't buy a horse like that, and I've been riding consistently for years and doing some of my own training. I'm appalled that the BO is trying to sell you that mare.


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## CBXSteve

I think you are getting a lot of good advice in here. Sounds like the owner is desperate. Losing a few borders can be the difference between paying the bills and not, by a big margin.

She is taking you for a rube and playing you, so play her back. Act like you respect her opinion and seem to listen carefully to all of her pitches, but your answer will be, "let me think about it". While she is pursuing you and your money, you can continue taking lessons from the trainers you like, as long as that lasts.

Be careful with that share boarding thing. If the horse was healthy and suitable, $300/mo for share and even 4 lessons would be a pretty good deal, assuming you are the only co-payor and had access to the horse. With the horse being lame, it smells to high heaven. Be careful and don't sign anything.

Mostly, don't get wrapped up emotionally in this (it doesn't sound like you are). You will run across hucksters throughout your life. Give them the attention they deserve, none.


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## Sunnylucy

You keep saying that you want to stay to work with the very experienced trainer, but is the same trainer that was trying to convince you to buy the aced up mare with the owner?


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## Tihannah

Sunnylucy said:


> You keep saying that you want to stay to work with the very experienced trainer, but is the same trainer that was trying to convince you to buy the aced up mare with the owner?


No the owner is the one trying to sell me the mare, not the trainer. The trainer is the one who said I'm not ready to buy yet because I'm not sure which way I want to go and I still have a lot to learn.


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## Sunnylucy

Oh okay, I misunderstood. I have a trainer that works at a barn but freelances to other barns, maybe quietly ask her if she is available for lessons at other places, you can always say you are asking for a friend, if you're not sure if she will say something to owner. Also, just to throw it out there, I leased a horse for a few months before I bought my own horse. It would be nice if you could find a barn that has horses that are suited to you that you could lease, its a great way to see what's involved, although you still keep learning when you get your own, but its a nice way to dip your toe in the water. Good luck to you.


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## bkylem

Simple question.....did you sign a lease contract and if so did it address the frequency of your riding or the ability to ride ? If not, you may be in a difficult situation.

My very best to you.


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## Cindyg

Find out where the previous trainer went and give her a call.


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## Tihannah

bkylem said:


> Simple question.....did you sign a lease contract and if so did it address the frequency of your riding or the ability to ride ? If not, you may be in a difficult situation.
> 
> My very best to you.


I did not sign a lease agreement. The only thing I signed was one of those liability injury release forms. The lease agreement, number of lessons, etc. was all verbal.


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## Tihannah

Cindyg said:


> Find out where the previous trainer went and give her a call.


I will try, but the only other rider I've seen show up for lessons is a 10 yr old little girl. I did ask the owner once if the other trainer was still here in town and she said she had no idea.


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## stevenson

If you know where the trainer you like lives, get a phone number and ask if you can call and meet with her. I would leave teh barn. Someone who keeps changing prices with no explanation would make me leary.


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## LoriF

I would see about taking lessons with the trainers that you like at other barns. If not an option then continue to take lessons with them where you are at and just keep putting the BO off. Just tell her that you have decided right now to just take lessons and if you change your mind again you can talk. Hopefully then, she will not bother you anymore. I wouldn't even bring up leasing or buying or anything else to the BO, just take your lessons.

Try not to be too hard on mares. I have three. One is a little jerk but we are working on that, the other two are awesome and give me 125%


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## Zexious

Frankly, I'd suggest going elsewhere... It sounds like this is a sketchy situation--even if the trainer wasn't involved in acing/selecting the mare for you to ride, she was still the one that taught the lesson, correct?

I very briefly taught lessons at/trained for a "lesson mill" type establishment (boy, did I learn my lesson fast!). I left because the trainer had me do something I thought was unsafe--put a VERY novice little girl on a VERY green, spooky pony that /I/ was training. No thank you. This trainer could have opted to put you on a different horse.


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## carshon

I understand your desire to stay with the trainer that has all of the horsey contacts. There is still no harm in looking at other barns for lessons and alternating lessons between barns. You can find another barn with less pressure and take a lesson there bi- weekly and stay with the current trainer bi-weekly. If the current trainer is as busy as you say her availability for lessons my dwindle as the summer shows and riding events start taking place - so you should look for other options. I feel sorry for that lesson mare - it sounds like she has some pain issues and she is speaking out and no one is listening. I would not want to buy/lease a horse from an owner that is not addressing the needs of a horse you are currently using.


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## Tihannah

Just following up on this thread...

I have lessons on Saturdays and Wednesdays and it was Sat. when the conversation about the mare took place. The following Wednesday I had a lesson with the 2nd trainer and voiced some of my concerns to her. I basically told her that I had absolutely no interest in purchasing that mare and that I would never buy something that spooked that easily. I did not speak with her about the whole pricing thing. There are a couple other options there for riding, a smaller mare I did my first lesson on, but she is mostly used for kid lessons, and an OTTB. He is over 17hh and hasn't been ridden in awhile, though the BO mentioned me possibly riding him after a few lessons on the current mare. My interest, however, has been in the 13 yr old gelding who has been in recovery. 

Anyhow, last Saturday I showed up and the BO told me my gelding was fine to ride. The "experienced trainer" was not there as she's been tied up in city election work. I had an amazing lesson on this horse, who has been extensively trained in dressage, and I REALLY like the other trainer as well. To my surprise, even though I've had my four lessons, the BO did not mention anything about paying more fees and did not bring up the subject of me purchasing the mare again. My guess is that trainer relayed my concerns to her. She did, however, ask if I would like to ride the gelding in an obstacle course event at a friends stable this coming weekend. Tomorrow I am working with the trainer on it with my gelding.

I did call around to 2 other stables. Both are much further away, but the more likely one is over 30 miles, which would make it difficult to take lessons after work. The trainer seemed nice, but she seemed to have a lot of students and only one lesson horse that would fit me. Her lessons were also first come, first serve. She sends out email blasts when she gets a schedule together and then slots are filled by whoever responds first. Not really ideal for me since I'm currently on the same scheduled days/times every week.

So I'm gonna stick it out here for now and see how this goes. I'm finally on the horse I want and both he and the trainer are great. If anything else shady occurs, then I will speak up and let her know that I will pursue other options or talk with the trainer and see if I can use her elsewhere.

Thanks for the great feedback everyone!


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## Tihannah

***Follow Up** Done and Done!!*

Well, despite all my initial apprehension, I swallowed my gut feeling and continued with my lessons. I admit I learned a lot because I worked with some good trainers. I did another lesson with the experienced trainer last Saturday and she was very impressed with how far I'd come in such a short time and felt I was ready to move up to the next level of training. I've been riding the horse I wanted to lease and so, of course, the time came to renew my lesson plan.

Mind you, initially when I talked to the BO, she offered me a half lease with 4 lessons a month on this horse for $300 month and I could ride on my own time as long as he wasn't being used by anyone else. The horse was lame for a few weeks so the lease never went into effect, so instead I got 8 lessons for the price. Well, after the month was up, I received an email from the BO and I was given 3 options for lease and lessons at $440, $500, or $600 month. Wha??? I'm not even going to get into all the OTHER unbelievable things I've learned in my month here about the BO.

That was pretty much it for me. I started looking at other barns. I visited one yesterday and one today. The one I visited today is definitely a winner. The trainer spent about an hour and a half showing me around, talking to me about my experience, her lessons, and even introduced me to several horses. Her rates are always the same and very reasonable. The facility is also the nicest I have been to and the only one with a covered arena, yet the lowest rates of all 3! I have decided that I would like to take the Dressage route and she has a strong background in this area and competes/wins regularly on her own horse, which is stunning and she raised and trained herself.

The best part? One of the boarders has a BEAUTIFUL jet black imported Warmblood gelding in his mid to upper teens trained to 2nd or 3rd level dressage that she no longer rides and is looking to lease or half lease for the cost of boarding - all tack included. This horse is absolutely drool worthy and I am ecstatic at that the thought of learning on such an accomplished schoolmaster! 

This new place is a little further away, but from what I saw today, definitely worth it! I'm supposed to start my next round of lessons tomorrow, but I will instead be letting the board owner know that I will not be continuing. Not sure what I will tell her for the reason, as I'd just like to cut clean ties and walk away?


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## DuffyDuck

Everything happens for a reason, and I am glad you have found somewhere else!

You have no financial ties to your other barn, nor any obligation to inform her why, so it is up to you how you resolve it. If it were me, I would just say that I had found somewhere else to ride that better suits my current needs as a rider and that you have enjoyed your time there. 
IF for WHATEVER reason you want to go back, bump in to her in the future etc etc it's better done with a smile as opposed to a frown and awkwardness. 

Best of luck with everything at your new barn, I hope this lease pays off for you!


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## Acadianartist

How did it go with the BO? I think it's a good thing to be up front with people, but be careful about putting yourself in a situation where she could really blow up. She may try to make you pay anyway, saying that she's now lost a client and it will cost her. That is NOT your problem! Be firm and walk away. Let her say what she wants, but don't bother replying. You owe her nothing. 

Enjoy the new barn! I hope it is a much more positive environment where you can pursue your passion with like-minded people!


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## Tihannah

Acadianartist said:


> How did it go with the BO? I think it's a good thing to be up front with people, but be careful about putting yourself in a situation where she could really blow up. She may try to make you pay anyway, saying that she's now lost a client and it will cost her. That is NOT your problem! Be firm and walk away. Let her say what she wants, but don't bother replying. You owe her nothing.
> 
> Enjoy the new barn! I hope it is a much more positive environment where you can pursue your passion with like-minded people!


I chickened out and told her I had to work late tonight and wouldn't make it for my lesson. I just didn't want to deal with her calling and trying to get info out of me. I more or less just want to tell her that I'm taking a break for awhile, but I'm sure that's not a good idea either. The funny part is that both barns I spoke to knew of this woman and both barns have taken in several of her past boarders and riders. Both places also have had clients that have been with them for years, and yet she hasn't been able to retain a rider, boarder, or trainer. Personally, if I was in her position, I'd be taking a serious step back to re-evaluate my business practices.


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## Zexious

Glad to hear you found a situation that will (hopefully!) run more smoothly!


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## Acadianartist

Totally understandable Tihannah! Confrontation is not pleasant and I'm guessing this person might not take it well. How about writing her an email so you don't have to deal with her in person? Or leave her a phone message or text when you know she's busy. 

Unfortunately, someone like her (and I've met a few!) might not "get" it no matter how obvious it is that she's pushing clients away. This is NOT your problem.


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## natisha

Maybe an E-mail is best.
"Hi, Please take me off your lesson schedule as I can no longer afford it. Thanks"

Expect a phone call or maybe not. If she does call you tell her she's too expensive compared to other places.


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## Zexious

Just wanted to add that I agree with the above!
An e-mail is totally sufficient. As a professional in the horse industry, this is something she should understand and be cool with... we hope :x!


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## Mulefeather

I totally agree with sending an email. If there's no reason for you to return to the barn (IE stuff being stored there), just cut ties and walk away. 

"I've enjoyed my time at your barn, but your price is now exceeding what my budget will allow, so unfortunately I will not be able to continue my lessons."

Really, that's all you need to say. If this woman can't figure out why she can't retain clients for longer than a few months, then she has zero business sense.


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## stevenson

You do need to notify her before your scheduled lesson, so she can fill the spot. 
The more excuses you make the weirder it will get. 
Does she check emails often ? If not call and be nice, say thanks for the lessons and your time and I want to make sure you have notice so you can fill the time slot. Thank you goodby.


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## Tihannah

So here's the message I sent:

Hey M-. I just wanted to let you know that I won't be out today. I've decided to go in another direction with my riding and an option that's more affordable for me with what I want to do right now. Thank you for the experience thus far and kiss Lucas for me. I will miss him. 

She responded pretty quickly : "Good luck."

I feel like I just lifted a huge weight off of me...


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## Acadianartist

Good for you Tihannah! Now you can put this behind you and ride at a barn that makes you happy! As someone whose daughter has ridden at 4 different barns in the last 4 years, I can tell you that there are a lot of wacky people in the horse business and it's best to steer clear of them. Also that you don't have to put up with it - they're not all like that. I wish you the best at your new barn.


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## Zexious

Glad to hear it went smoothly! Have fun at your new barn !


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## Saddlebag

No matter what, don't divulge to anyone else as to why you left that barn. Someone still needs to earn a living and will perhaps make positive changes. We don't know about these things if not told.


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## Tihannah

Saddlebag said:


> No matter what, don't divulge to anyone else as to why you left that barn. Someone still needs to earn a living and will perhaps make positive changes. We don't know about these things if not told.


The issues I had personally were just a small part of it. I could actually tell you some things that would change your mind on this completely. If I had known what I know now, I doubt I would have ever gone there, and I only found out by doing a little digging, asking questions. There is someone else, brand spanking new rider, taking lessons there and I almost feel bad for not telling her...


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## Textan49

Tihannah said:


> The issues I had personally were just a small part of it. I could actually tell you some things that would change your mind on this completely. If I had known what I know now, I doubt I would have ever gone there, and I only found out by doing a little digging, asking questions. There is someone else, brand spanking new rider, taking lessons there and I almost feel bad for not telling her...


 The less you say the better in must situations. I worked at a rather fancy stable where the BO tried to present the "big happy family" image. If her clientele knew some of thing that I had discovered, they would not be happy. If you are ever asked why you left there. I would simply say that you didn't feel it was the right situation for you.


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## Tihannah

Textan49 said:


> The less you say the better in must situations. I worked at a rather fancy stable where the BO tried to present the "big happy family" image. If her clientele knew some of thing that I had discovered, they would not be happy. If you are ever asked why you left there. I would simply say that you didn't feel it was the right situation for you.


That's pretty much what I'm going to do as I know there's a good chance I'll run into her at horse shows and I don't want to deal with any animosity or bad blood. I'm happy where I'm at now and think I have a great opportunity to grow.


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## Acadianartist

While I agree that you don't need to go around telling everyone about your bad experience there, if someone straight up asks you, I wouldn't lie. There are ways to express things without being too specific but still giving someone the benefit of your experience. They probably won't ask, but if they do, I would be honest without giving too much detail. It is up to the barn owner to run a quality facility and everyone in the horse world knows word-of-mouth is everything.


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## Saddlebag

Word of mouth can also be a huge detriment. Ask any BO who had had to ask a boarder to leave for late or non payment of board fees. Suddenly the BO is bad-mouthed to all and sundry. If someone starts telling me negatives about a BO, my first tho's are that the board was chronically late.


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## Tihannah

*Thought this was done...*



Saddlebag said:


> Word of mouth can also be a huge detriment. Ask any BO who had had to ask a boarder to leave for late or non payment of board fees. Suddenly the BO is bad-mouthed to all and sundry. If someone starts telling me negatives about a BO, my first tho's are that the board was chronically late.


Well, I never boarded, only took lessons, and paid up front for 8 lessons.

Anyhow, so I thought this was all behind me and then out of the blue this morning, I get a text from the BO saying she was thinking about me and wondering how I was doing. I decided to be cordial and told her about the horse I went to see and how things fell through because the new barn would not take him with behavioral issues. She immediately asked why I wasn't boarding with her, and I told her the truth - that her rates were too high and that I couldn't afford to pay her rates, take lessons, AND keep up with other horse expenses.

She then called me and started trying to justify her rates, which are $200 a month MORE than my current barn, which is much nicer and has a covered arena. She charges $15 more per lesson than my current trainer, but has no dedicated trainer, so it's whoever she can get to show up that day. She even went as far as to insult me by saying that I wasn't as good a rider as I thought I was! Whaaa??? I don't even know where the hell that came from as I've NEVER told ANYONE I was a good rider, and ALWAYS acknowledged that I have a lot to learn still. 

Then she went on to say my horse would need at least 9lbs of grain per day, which we all know depends on the horse, and hay would be $100 month (current barn charges $25). I don't even know why I stayed on the phone with her so long, but no matter what I said, she felt justified in her rates and thought she could get me to agree to come back and board a horse with her. I finally told her that I had to go into work and would let her know, but what I REALLY wanted to say was, "How many people do you have boarding with you now? Zero?? I rest my case." But unfortunately, I can't be ugly to people, and just ended the conversation... :icon_rolleyes:


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## Acadianartist

Sorry to hear this Tihannah. Hopefully it is the end of her. It sucks that she felt she had to insult you (and this is going to get her clients how???) but I think you probably did the right thing in not engaging with her. I've learned the hard way that even though standing up for yourself is important, sometimes it's best to walk away from a fight and just refuse to engage in a discussion that is going nowhere. With some people, it's impossible to have a rational conversation so it's a waste of energy to even try. 

You made it clear that her rates are too high for you. Period. She can justify them as much as she wants, that doesn't change the fact that they're higher than what you're willing to pay. It's your decision. 

She will lose interest in you. Just try to put that unpleasant conversation out of your mind. In the end, she's the one who has to live with an aggressive personality that pushes people away. You can choose to be a better person.


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## ChristineNJ

Yikes, you should have never answered her text!! I would just completely ignore he [email protected]@ Are you riding that Warmblood trained in upper level Dressage?
I'm jealous!!


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## Tihannah

No, somebody beat me to the punch, but they're actually looking to buy, so he may become available again after awhile. :-/


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## Mulefeather

I’m sorry that the BO just couldn’t let sleeping dogs lie, just goes to show you she has poor business sense. You don’t chase clients down after they leave trying to justify yourself and then insult them to boot- at this point, she doesn’t need anyone to spread the word about her business since she’s doing such a bang-up job of driving people away all on her own. I’d have been tempted to say “Justify it to yourself any way you like – all you’re doing is letting me know I made the right choice.” 

Also, I completely disagree with not telling people why you left. You are not responsible for defending the financial welfare of a businessperson who cannot get their s*** together and who cannot figure out why they cannot retain clients. Would you go to a new restaurant, get food poisoning, and then recommend that restaurant to all your friends because the owners are “really trying” and might change (keyword:MIGHT)? NO WAY. Bad businesses and people who refuse to improve their business practices deserve to fail, plain and simple. This woman sounds like she is mismanaging her cash flow in a big way – hence why she needs to constantly raise rates, cannot retain clients for training or boarding, and is literally chasing people down as they run out the door.

If people ask why you left, tell them your experience in a gracious way that sticks to the business side of things. Letting other people walk into a potentially bad experience for themselves, their horses and their wallet when they ask for your honest opinion does nobody any good. You don’t have to go scream it from the rooftops, but you don’t have to not say anything if asked either.

If she fails? Guess what: NOT your circus, NOT your monkeys, NOT your problem. 

I understand not wanting to be ugly to people. But if she wants to have a tantrum, she can have it on her own time.


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## Tihannah

I think the saddest part is that she fails to even consider that she's doing anything wrong, yet all the other barns in the area are bursting at the seams with boarders. One barn a few miles down the road from her I visited was in the process of building a THIRD barn cause they had so many boarders.

I asked about one of the trainers I was working with and her tone sounded like the trainer had bailed as well. She said, "Well...she shows up when she wants to..." I would bet money that something went sour with her as well, and she was really great. We would do a lesson and then take a short trail ride together talking about work and our mutual love of horses and riding.

I'm a pretty easy going person and I tend to let too many things slide that I know I shouldn't, but I'm not gonna let someone take advantage of me, and I'm definitely not going to stay somewhere I'm not happy. Both my new BO and trainer are just sweet, honest, hard working people who have have built strong relationships with their clients for many years. I feel good about leaving that place. Being around and riding horses is my peace of mind and therapy for my soul, and anything that detracts from that experience is not worth entertaining.


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## stevenson

do not discuss her with other people. if they say anything just state, you had problems with the cost. If the old bo bm or whatever she contacts you again. state i am not interested, sorry . end the conversation. block her email address, dont answer the phone if you see its her number. if she continues to phone /test or email.. state.. you are now harrassing me, i stated to you I was Not interested . Do not contact me again. thank you


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## Tihannah

She did contact me again this morning asking if I reached out again about the horse I originally wanted. Of course, because she thinks I want it that bad that I would board with her again. I told her I decided against purchasing him, and she replied with a completely "unlike her" response. Something along the lines that she was sorry to hear that because she knows how much I want a horse and how great it feels to be able to bond with your own. I just responded that I'd find something eventually and left it at that.

Originally, when I told her I wanted my own horse, she told me that for the type of horse I NEED, I'd have to expect to pay $15-$20k. I'm sure she'll reach out again sometime, but I will not lead her to believe I'm going to return to that barn...


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## Tihannah

*Just a quick follow up*

Met a 12 yr old girl finishing up a lesson with my trainer the other day. Apparently, she was taking lessons at my old barn when she was 10. She stuck around longer than I did and said she fell off 3 times during lessons due to being put in dangerous situations, the 3rd time shattering her wrist. The wrist shattering incident was when a trainer told her to canter her horse uphill on wet grass. :sad: The horse lost his footing and she was pitched from the saddle and almost trampled. She said the trainer left her on the ground and went after the horse instead. Like me, she said she rarely had the same trainer twice, and of course because they refused to cancel due to weather, they had her riding a horse inside the barn during a storm. Her mother said the BO continued to try and get them to return and they just had to tell her she wasn't interested in riding anymore. 

She has since been taking lessons at my barn with my trainer and hasn't had a fall since. This lady continues to operate putting oblivious people in dangerous situations on horses that are NOT lesson horses. It amazes me that she hasn't been sued yet or is still even open!


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## Skyseternalangel

Poor girl... 

Likely they're still operating because past riders either haven't reported or think they're a special "they don't care about me" case, not that there are others out there experiencing the same


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## elle1959

How binding are those waivers the barns always have you sign before you ride? Maybe they haven't been sued because no one can sue them?


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## Overread

elle1959 said:


> How binding are those waivers the barns always have you sign before you ride? Maybe they haven't been sued because no one can sue them?


In theory such waivers only work up to a point otherwise every single private enterprise you entered would have you sign one to avoid any chance of being sued. 

If there is clear negligence on the part of the barn then such waivers would likely be void. The trick is proving it which can be very hard if you've no photo/video evidence.


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## Tihannah

Skyseternalangel said:


> Poor girl...
> 
> Likely they're still operating because past riders either haven't reported or think they're a special "they don't care about me" case, not that there are others out there experiencing the same


True, but who would you report that to? Better Business Bureau? I think most just don't want want involve themselves in a lot of drama, as well, and just get outta there. I also wouldn't be surprised if someone has reported her and I just don't know about it.

I seriously thought that standing martingales were part of the normal tack for English riding horses and that aceing the lesson horses was just taking extra precaution.


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## Skyseternalangel

Tihannah said:


> True, but who would you report that to? Better Business Bureau? I think most just don't want want involve themselves in a lot of drama, as well, and just get outta there. I also wouldn't be surprised if someone has reported her and I just don't know about it.
> 
> I seriously thought that standing martingales were part of the normal tack for English riding horses and that aceing the lesson horses was just taking extra precaution.


Yelp, google reviews, local riding tack shops, craigslist, facebook... there's no shortage of where to post a bad review.


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## Saddlebag

The law recognizes that there is an element of danger when around large animals. Therefore waivers must be signed acknowledging this danger. Mine states that it could result in permanent injury or death and I read it aloud to them and make certain they understand this before signing. There are no guarantees with horses even the ones who seem docile. I came off so many times and it inspired me to develop a better seat and how not to come off.


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## Tihannah

^^^Yes, I think that this is a given, but under the same taken, I think that BO's and Trainers should be taking every precaution to keep their clients safe. 

My current trainer exposes potential lesson horses to a series of tests. If they do not pass those tests, they do not go into her lesson program. My old BO put green students on horses that she herself was nervous riding without HER trainer around. These horses were unpredictable even AFTER being aced. The one I enjoyed riding was a very forward horse. He would go from walk to canter in the blink of an eye and slowing him down took a heavy hand. He just loved to go. I could handle him, but I would never put a child on him. He was not a lesson horse. :-/


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## Overread

Tihannah said:


> ^^^Yes, I think that this is a given, but under the same taken, I think that BO's and Trainers should be taking every precaution to keep their clients safe.


Exactly. 
Lots of activities are dangerous and horses are no different. Yes there are risks and even with every safeguard accidents can happen. However if the trainer is not taking proper precautions then they can be at fault - negligence is still valid even if you've signed a "this can kill me" waiver. 

The whole "I accept I can be injured/killed" side assumes that the person offering the training/services is taking every sane precaution to limit those possibilities from taking place. Putting novices onto known difficult/unsafe/advanced horses is clearly not part of normal precautions. 



Social media is also a great way to spread the word; but be careful. You must do so without being slanderous or conducting a "campaign". This is because police are taking more notice of the use of social media bullying. So by all means post reviews; just don't go on a witch-hunt trying to comment/defame on every single page of theirs.


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