# pat parelli vs. John Lyons vs. Clinton Anderson



## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

I would rather do Parelli then Clinton Anderson.. But I have no knowledge of John Lyons.


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## restless spirit (May 8, 2009)

I think you should look into john Lyons I really like his stuff he also has the magazine perfect horse.. It's really good


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

I haven seen hat magazine but Ill have to look into it! Have any links??


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## Kentucky (Aug 2, 2008)

MyHorse.com | John Lyons' Perfect Horse Magazine

I respect both Clinton Anderson and John Lyons, I don't have as kind of opinion on Pat Parelli. In my mind all his program is, is the seven games. My two favorite trainers are Chris Cox and Craig Cameron, I also like Curt Pate. Yes I prefer a working cowboy style of trainer.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

There is only one way to Speak Horse, and all 3 men have mastered this. Speaking horse is speaking horse, regardless of what trainer you follow.

I choose to not pick favorites. They all have their strong points and bad points. I agree with things, and I disagree with things.

It is up to us to choose what we want to take from all of them, and discard what we don't.

They all speak horse, they just have their own ways of reaching the grand goal.


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## Horsegma (Dec 1, 2008)

I've met them all and by far the easiest one for me to incorporate at home is Clinton Anderson.


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## Barrelracer Up (May 22, 2009)

I have incorporated Clinton Anderson and Dennis Reis technique. They were easiest for me to translate into something that worked for me and my horses.

John Lyons is very sloooow and is great for beginners or people who can handle the tiny baby steps. I still do a step and build type program, but it isn't as baby steppy.


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## Barrelracer Up (May 22, 2009)

Pat Parelli is dangerous in inexperienced hands. 14 yrs ago, when I didn't know any better, I was riding my three year old with no saddle or bridle. Which was fine for over 6 months. Then one day he left and bucked my but off. Anybody remember that Western Horseman book with Parelli on the cover sitting on a unbridled unsaddled horse? I wanted to be able to do that.


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## restless spirit (May 8, 2009)

horsesareforever you can go to perfecthorse.com


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## dewaynehousehorsemanship (May 24, 2009)

chris cox is awesome, clinton is good, john lyons has done a lot for me and has helped me out a lot, but its also good when you know him good too!  But i like chris and clinton because they do cutting and reining as i do. Tommy Garland taught me a lot also. Richard winters a working cow horse trainer from california is awesome too, he won road to the horse this year. I got to set down and talk to him for about an hour there and he needs more credit than what he gets. You can check his website out www.wintersranch.com 

My training program is a little bit of everyones own thing and I have just made it into mine. They all didnt get to were they are for nothing.


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## Kentucky (Aug 2, 2008)

My training program is a little bit of everyones own thing and I have just made it into mine. They all didnt get to were they are for nothing. 

I agree with mostly but some trainer are better able to connect with you for whatever reason.


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## nldiaz66 (Jul 27, 2008)

I like Chris Cox and Dennis Reis,but Clinton Anderson is my favorite.


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## Juniper (May 4, 2007)

Clinton Anderson is the easiest for me to follow and I have gotten some good results. But working with a "live" trainer, who is very knowledgable has been the most useful for me.


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## EternalSun (Mar 29, 2009)

Clinton is my favorite. His methods make the most sense to me - kind if like, if you have an issue, and he says "do this and this and that", you step back and go "oh - well that makes sense why didn't I think of that?". I've also seen and had the best results from his methods. John Lyons is great, too. I've met both of them and they were both very nice in person, especially John. He talked to me about my horse for almost 20 minutes. 

I'm not by any means a fan of Parelli, but that's a whole other issue.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Out of the three choices I pick John Lyons.... But my favorite trainer is the one I use right here close to home....


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## Shawneen (Apr 22, 2009)

John Lyons here  I won't bad mouth the others, but I prefer JL!! Going to Cert Training 2010  Which reminds me I need to bump my thread...


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I am not very familiar with John Lyons but I have heard that he is very good. If I had to choose between Parelli and Anderson, I would pick Anderson hands down. His training techniques are more practical and have no "circus act" quality to them. To me, it just seems like Parelli is all about gimmicks. He is one hell of a horseman, don't get me wrong, but what he sells as a training tool to encourage green riders to get green horses seems very dangerous to me. Also, from what I have watched of him on RFD-TV, he seems to be all about the merchandise..... "Buy my bit, buy my saddle, buy my carrot stick, buy my hackamore. They will all make your relationship with your horse perfect." I just don't buy that.

However, I agree with Juniper. There is no way that a DVD could ever take the place of a good knowledgeable trainer with you on site to deal with any particular problems that pop up and aren't covered in your DVD.


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## jxclass19 (Feb 1, 2009)

Clinton is my favorite. His methods make the most sense to me.

I'm not by any means a fan of Parelli


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

Actually Pat suggests to green riders to work with their easiest and most broke horse first (if the person has more than one horse) or to find themselves a broke and easy horse to learn on. He has never once said "Even if you have no horse experience, my stuff will make magic happen on your green broke horse."


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## FlitterBug (May 28, 2009)

I'm not really a huge fan of any of them. I do enjoy Anderson's sense of humor. All of their techniques are effective on a horse in a mental aspect, however I find that a lot of them leave out important information about a horses physical well being and promoting proper self carriage. I have come across many NH horses, mostly Parelli, that are very obedient, but physically in the process of breaking down. This is especially apparent in horses whose behavior issues are a result of physical issues in the first place. I have no problem with people using their dvds or clinics for help, but I strongly encourage people to learn about the physical aspect as well in addition to exercising the horses mind.


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## Brumby (Nov 5, 2008)

I really think they are all good. I actually prefer a fourth party by far. But out of the three I like Clinton Anderson.


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## cowgirl4jesus94 (Jun 14, 2008)

I love John Lyon's methods. Parelli seems okay. I havent done any of his things, but I have his natural horse-man-ship book and it seems like a lot of fluffy stuff. But i guess i cant really speak, because i havent tried his methods. But i do like john lyons alot!


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## Cayuse (May 28, 2009)

Im a Clinton Anderson, Chris Cox fan. Reason being is how they present the material. I have met John Lyons and he is a nice enough guy. IMO Parelli is all about selling his stuff. Clinton Anderson was the first guy to show you how to do the techniques on an unbroke horse. Now others are following suit. 

If you really look at it, they all say the same thing, just phrase it differently. The methods or ideas are the same. Move the horse forward, lateral flexion, engaging and disengaging ect.


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## Walkamile (Dec 29, 2008)

Walka was trained using John Lyons methods along with a certified JL trainer that I respected and we both clicked with. 

Didn't know much about Clinton Anderson or Parelli back than. Thanks to RFD TV that has since changed.

Like CA and his direct no fluff training methods. Also like Chris Cox for the same reason.

Not such a Parelli fan, as it all comes across a bit vague to me. However, can't take away from the success others have achieved using his methods.

Good thing there are so many there that all want one thing, a good relationship/partnership with the horse and humane way of achieving it.


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## horseloverd2 (Jan 23, 2009)

John Lyons.... uh.... I have my opinion of him and it is not good  

I have never heard of Clinton, but I really like Parelli. He's amazing.


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## biggame12 (May 11, 2009)

John Lyons


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## Qtswede (Apr 16, 2009)

Anderson gets on my nerves. I was NOT impressed when he did Road to the Horse v. Cox v. Westfall. Not much good to say about Parelli either. Out of the 3, I guess it's Lyons, but he's no where near my fave - Chris Cox, then Stacy Westfall. But, whatever works for you, works best.


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## Shawneen (Apr 22, 2009)

horseloverd2 said:


> John Lyons.... uh.... I have my opinion of him and it is not good
> 
> I have never heard of Clinton, but I really like Parelli. He's amazing.


What is it that you don't like about JL? Not looking to argue, just curious


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## Calamity Jane (Mar 16, 2009)

restless spirit said:


> Who's your favorite trainer Clinton Anderson, pat parelli or john Lyons? I'm kind of on the fence with all three but I want to no your opinions and why you like them


First...all of em...are the same in the basic foundation ideas. They just have their own takes on them that are slightly different. But basically...it's all the same.

Present the horse with an idea (don't use force or pain) and let him figure it out by way of using rhythm and a pattern of requests. Always use light pressure first but be willing to add as much as you need and always reward the slightest try. Focus on what you want, not on what you don't want. Etc....

Clinton Anderson is to the point, no b.s. just do it. I like that. And incorporate some of his training methods.

Pat Parelli has a good 7 games to start with, that's really all I know about him. He turns the training into lots of games which is fine, but he seems long winded and I don't like the "this is the only way to do this!" mentality that I run into from the folks who follow his methods to a T. I don't agree that you need his carrot stick or a special halter or special anything to succeed. But like I said, his basic stuff is good.

I got certified through John Lyons so I do the basics like Bridlework. I got the outline for training from him, but I needed to put together my own training plans based on some of the stuff I get from other trainers (big name and not big name) and from making up my own stuff, too....based on what horse needs what, and what owners need what. Unfortunately, he didn't teach me how to handle "problem" horses, I had to learn that from others. He also doesn't push the horse when sometimes there needs to be some push to get the horse through the issues caused by their owners or past bad experiences. 

I also listen to Chris Cox, Stephanie Westfall, Ken McNabb,....

I didn't grow up with horses, so I had to learn from these people. 

I would highly recommend if you are interested in learning about this....get Tom Dorrance, Bill Dorrance and Ray Hunt Books. These are the original cowboys who brought the whole Natural Horsemanship stuff to the public long before any of the "big names" ever did. They're the "inspiration" behind it all in the U.S. far as I've learned.

Mark Rachid has some great info, too.


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## Calamity Jane (Mar 16, 2009)

horseloverd2 said:


> John Lyons.... uh.... I have my opinion of him and it is not good


I've heard some stuff about him too. But based on my own opinion of having lived in Parachute for a year, having helped him out at week long clinics, symposiums, and having taken his training course where he oversaw everything.... and having seen him work wonders with nothing more than a round pen, his trusty steeds and a load of patience and understanding....I can't find anything bad training wise...to say about the guy.

He knows his stuff. I've seen him turn around a horse that was so fearful of being in a tight group of horses, that the horse bucked off its rider....in 20 minutes, Lyons had him calm and quiet without any abusive treatment at all. Just psychology and timing and feel.

Another good example....a horse that couldn't be handled by 3 trainers because it had become so headshy it would rear and strike....in three hours Lyons had that horse's head in his lap, able to touch his ears....something that the owner thought was impossible and was ready to put the horse down because of that issue. Lyons saved that horse's life.

Sure, everyone's got their opinions and you might have seen some pretty rank stuff or heard of stuff....but I'm just saying what I said because I was there for that length of time, and not once did I ever see any mistreatment of any animal, be it person or horse from Lyons. That's why I took the course. Otherwise, there's no way in hell .... Course, that said...money-wise....If I'd of known that Clinton Anderson had started a 4 year FREE course that he pays the students to do..I'd of gone there instead. I mean, it's all basically the same and a 4 year course for FREE? oh, hell yeah. :shock:


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## Shawneen (Apr 22, 2009)

Calamity Jane are you a cert trainer? If so I would love to speak with you about it. I am getting ready to go next year and I am so juiced!!!!! I love JL as well and the things you mentioned above are exactly what drives me to become more like him. I haven't ever heard of or witnessed any abuse, so if that is what you've heard about him I would be shocked!!!!


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## Calamity Jane (Mar 16, 2009)

Shawneen said:


> Calamity Jane are you a cert trainer? If so I would love to speak with you about it. I am getting ready to go next year and I am so juiced!!!!! I love JL as well and the things you mentioned above are exactly what drives me to become more like him.


Yes, I got certified in 2005. If you want to ask me anything about the program please email me. Click here: www.easystephorsemanship.com and my email's on that site. 




> I haven't ever heard of or witnessed any abuse, so if that is what you've heard about him I would be shocked!!!!


 I was referring to a comment someone had made on another board a long time ago...about having a friend who claimed to of seen JL whip a horse at a symposium,...but frankly, I don't buy the heresay. It sounded like he said she said stuff, you know? 

And since I got to be there first hand at several symps, weekend and week long clinics, and demos that he did throughout the year, I never once saw anything bad or abusive.


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## Scoutrider (Jun 4, 2009)

All three trainers obviously get results, I won't argue with that . I don't have a lot of experience with John Lyons' methods, but what I have seen appears to rely a lot on roundpen work, which makes life difficult if you do not have access to that kind of equipment. I saw one episode of his TV series a long time ago and there was a lot of religion and a little horse training. No problem with the religion, but not what I was expecting based on the TV guide discription of the show. 
Parelli is a giant gimmick, and his TV show is essentially an infomercial. His horses do listen, and he gets results, but if I rode in a show class in the manner dictated by his system, I would never place.
Clinton Anderson is by far my favorite of the three. His methods are easy to understand and simple to employ. My newest horse is a green broke mixed breed gelding, quiet and with a good mind, but lacking ridden experience. I am currently following CA's Gaining Respect and Control on the Ground and Under Saddle exercises with much success. I have heard CA state that you must gain the horse's respect before he will become a partner. Parelli follows the polar opposite philosophy - partnership leading to respect. Do some CA basics, then, if you feel like it, try the Seven Games to keep your horse interested and fresh. If you have a problem, go back Downunder.


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## Maynme (May 15, 2009)

I like John Lyons the best but I am a beginner and I am not familiar with Parelli. I am signed up for both Anderson and Lyon's newsletters and it seems that Anderson only sends me adds wanting to buy things. Lyons actually sends me good tips that I use. Plus the articles have a humorous twist to them that make me laugh.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

Just something to throw out there....Lauren Barwick placed Gold in the Paralympics in Beijing in the Freestyle Dressage class and she does Parelli. She's a Level 3 graduate of the program. So you CAN place in shows (and in the Olympics) if you do Parelli


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## Calamity Jane (Mar 16, 2009)

> All three trainers obviously get results, I won't argue with that :smile:. I don't have a lot of experience with John Lyons' methods, but what I have seen appears to rely a lot on roundpen work, which makes life difficult if you do not have access to that kind of equipment. I saw one episode of his TV series a long time ago and there was a lot of religion and a little horse training. No problem with the religion, but not what I was expecting based on the TV guide discription of the show.


You're right his OLD stuff had a lot of round pen to it. His NEW stuff doesn't require a round pen at all. He's actually steered away from that. He now has a very basic and very useful simple tool: Bridlework. 

It's basically the rein cues you're going to need in the saddle, you start to teach them on the ground first. So, just you, your horse and a bridle (or halter and lead rope). There's a Yield to Pressure exercise...and his Ground Manual stuff and Riding Manual stuff. No round pen needed unless you want to do the leading with contact, and even then...you really don't need a round pen....

He still talks a lot about religion, he's a minister, so I guess that might have something to do with it... 

He's on Horsetv now, but I don't get that channel, so I haven't seen anything of his lately. 



> Parelli is a giant gimmick, and his TV show is essentially an infomercial. His horses do listen, and he gets results, but if I rode in a show class in the manner dictated by his system, I would never place.


Marketing is his strength for sure. But you also have to take into consideration that his stuff and Lyons, Clinton Anderson, Chris Cox,...all the NH stuff is BASIC foundation. It's not a finished product. It's a starting point. So, I don't see why you wouldn't be able to place in any discipline if you have a good solid foundation (I think if you can train the horse to listen willingly, be desensitized enough, and sensitized to pressure, that is a good foundation).....then you just add the discipline you want. 

And actually, Chris Cox was working on a dressage horse who was being prepped for Grand Prix level...... who was a bucker and a bolter regardless of his years of top notch training. His trainers figured he might be a lost cause, but then as a last resort asked Chris Cox to work with him. He put him through some basics to retrain him to stop those behaviors. I was surprised to see that even a high level trained horse, a $$$ horse had issues because of a faulty basic foundation. So, there's where NH stuff can come in....which is just basic common sense stuff...nothing major, you know? Like bending exercises, get control of the hip, etc...



> Clinton Anderson is by far my favorite of the three. His methods are easy to understand and simple to employ. My newest horse is a green broke mixed breed gelding, quiet and with a good mind, but lacking ridden experience. I am currently following CA's Gaining Respect and Control on the Ground and Under Saddle exercises with much success. I have heard CA state that you must gain the horse's respect before he will become a partner. Parelli follows the polar opposite philosophy - partnership leading to respect. Do some CA basics, then, if you feel like it, try the Seven Games to keep your horse interested and fresh. If you have a problem, go back Downunder


 Clinton Anderson is awesome. But I have to disagree about Parelli following the opposite. Through his 7 games he shows you how to gain respect by way of moving the horse's feet. Same as CA. Same as JL, same as.... it's all just about moving the feet. If you move the horse's feet, and direct those feet in certain directions with pressure and the horse complies, you get "respect" as the leader. 

I really like CA's Lunging for respect part 1 & 2. I use these all the time for pretty much everything on the ground. I really like the rollbacks part of it. 

Wish he would come out to Calif more often!


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## Scoutrider (Jun 4, 2009)

I didn't know that John Lyons was a minister. My grandmother gets the Perfect Horse magazine, that's got some interesting exercises in it.

Most of what I do see of the Parelli methods (on RFDTV) is indeed basic training and problem horse retraining. I do agree that with a solid foundation, which all of the NH methods offer, you can certainly take any horse in any direction you feel like. What really sticks in my mind was a segment I saw during which it seemed like Linda Parelli was doing a fairly advanced dressage demo and doing some unconventional things in the name of more "natural" riding. Granted, I saw this a good while ago, so perhaps I'm mistaken, and I know since then Parelli Level One (and Two, I think) has been overhauled. I'm all for as natural as possible, as long as my safety and my horse's safety remain priority #1 and #2, in that order. I just don't think that the showing system at large is ready for NH riding techniques, at least not veiled by something more traditional. I personally would love to try a showmanship class tackless. 

Thank you, Calamity Jane, for setting me straight on JL. I did not know that his system had changed so much. Chris Cox rocks, too .


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## PalominoStarsky (Dec 18, 2008)

I am a big fan of Clinton Anderson. My husband and I went to one of his clinics in April, and it was so easy to understand and apply once we got home. Starsky has improved so much! I love that he has a humor and it wasn't all dry and boring. Plus, he gave away thousands and thousands of dollars worth of his merchandise to people there.


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

None of the above and if they were the only three to choose from my horse would remain untrained.. 

Chris Cox ROCKS!!!


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

I like any trainer who knows how to listen to the horses he works with, so it really doesn't matter who's method it is, if it creates a horse who is willing to work with his rider out of respect and confidence (rather than fear), then 'who' it is doesn't really matter to me. 

That being said, I do have alot of respect for Chris Cox, Stacey Westfall, and Clinton Anderson, though.


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## jessetjames (Mar 24, 2009)

dont get me started on parllie. lyons is good haven't looked to much on im though so out of the three ill have to say clinton anderson i really like his teaching style.


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