# *Update* Lizzie is here!!



## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

So...Lizzie(new horse) is here! She is a gorgeous grey dapple! I am calling the farrier tomorrow to come out and do her hooves because they are really bad. I rode her around at a walk for a bit to try her out before letting her in the pasture. Her previous owner rode her at a walk, trot, and gallop so I could see how she is and have a bit of reassurance that she won't buck me off, haha. 

She was really nervous because of everything new, but not bad. I mean, she let me get on her and ride around just fine. She did get scared because the wind blew the trash can lid around but she just kind of put her feet out sat there for a second, and kept walking. 

She has the gorgeous Arabian head and doesn't have bad legs! I am so super excited! She is a sweet little girl, about 15 or 15.2 hh tall which makes her the biggest horse we have. We have a lot of work to do, though. She doesn't know how to respond to leg pressure (then again, none of my horses do) isn't very responsive, and you have to plow rein her, no neck reining for this pretty girl. So, we have our work cut out for us, but she is amazing and I fell in love all over again today!

I am literally drooling because she's so awesome and I can't believe she's mine!:-o:-o


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

And I am going to start bringing her to my jumping lessons so we can learn together.


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## CrossCountry (May 18, 2013)

It's always a great idea to work with a trainer! Good luck and have fun with her!

Also we need pictures....:lol:


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Yup, pictures.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

did you find out if she is pregnant or not?


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I will definitely post pictures, as soon as I get some! Haven't found out if she is pregnant or not yet. She got here just yesterday, but from the way he was talking, I doubt it. (Still going to get a test done) but he said that the stud didn't even come close to her as far as he knew.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

How would he know that if he doesn't even know how long they were together? If her feet are bad why ride her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Red Gate Farm (Aug 28, 2011)

Pictures?


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I only rode her for like minutes to see how she is. Not even trotting or loping, just a slow walk down the road. Her feet are just long. I have no idea how he would know that, that's just what he said... still definitely going to get pregnancy test. And I will get pics when I go out tonight!


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

There should be a new HF rule, no posts about new horses unless pictures are included, LOL.

I'm just kidding OP. I hope she works out for you.


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## Fahntasia (Dec 19, 2011)

piiiictuuuuuures please


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Subbing. Congrats. I am glad she's being good for you.


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

Awesome ! Pics please


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Okay, sorry it took so long! Got pics! One thing I have noticed about her is she is stubborn and lazy. But, I had the owner get on her and ride her around to show me she's not going to kill me, so I figured out how he got her to go when she would be super stubborn. I don't know if it is the "correct" thing, but if you reach back and grab her tail, she will go. :/ Anyway, here are the pics. 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zvj1LzBZyxI8lqmHNmYBNbx-XFVnhcj6i1jgY7NjvTE/edit?usp=sharing


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## 40232 (Jan 10, 2013)

Ebonyisforme said:


> I don't know if it is the "correct" thing, but if you reach back and grab her tail, she will go. :/


That's... Unique :shock: please get a trainer? :lol:


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## karliejaye (Nov 19, 2011)

She is very cute. Congrats. 

Can't say I have ever heard of that cue before! I would work on getting her forward off your leg in more conventional methods!


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Yeah, I am definitely working on that, haha. It's really weird that is what she responds to. I can kick her and kick her, make kissing noises, tell her to walk, anything and she falls asleep, as soon as you do that, she's like, "Oh, I get it!" I am going to start bringing her to my lessons. I take lessons once a week so she will get to be worked with under supervision of a trainer once a week. That will help. Thanks, I think she is gorgeous. I'm in love.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I love the first picture. Really makes her look Arabian in my opinion.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Those feet are going to need a lot of work before I'd be riding her. :shock:

In the meantime, do a lot of groundwork with her. Teach her to lunge (if she doesn't already know how) and teach her to work off voice commands. Give her consequences for not doing as she's told. It sounds like she hasn't had many consequences for misbehaving heretofore. 

She is a pretty girl. Definitely took more after the arab side. If you hadn't said she was a TWH/Arab cross, I probably would have guessed quarab or morab.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I think she would feel more like 'going' if those feet were trimmed correctly, she must be very uncomfortable walking about on them without the weight of a rider
Have you bought her specifically for jumping?


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Yeah! Farrier is coming out at 9:00 in the morning tomorrow. I think she will do better with those trimmed down too! I lunged her today for a bit and tried getting her to go off of "Walk, trot, and lope" I would say the word, then swing the whip if she didn't go. Got her to lope twice. She definitely looks more Arabian than TWH! While I was lunging her, she went over some ground poles and flat out jumped them so I think she will suit my needs nicely. I didn't buy her solely for jumping although that was a major reason. I also wanted another horse so both my 'horsey' siblings could ride with me at the same time and for mountain riding as she is a good trail horse (supposedly) I will probably show her in Western Pleasure and Trail and possibly jumping if she does good and I feel comfortable.


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

Can someone post the pics?? The link wont load for me


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## lostastirrup (Jan 6, 2015)

She's pretty well put together, sep I think she might be a little downhill...but nothing horrible. Note: Grabbing tail is not a normal functional cue for a horse. In your groundwork I'd begin working with her bending off pressure from a whip or sapling like your leg as well a moving forward from driving aids...If you have to grab her tail to get her going she definitely won't place well at shows much less be an enjoyable versatile horse.


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

She's lovely. Once her feet are nice and neat you'll have to share some pictures of her jumping.

I used to ride a little gelding built almost just like Lizzie, he was one of the best jumpers I've seen in a long time. He could go high and he could go neatly, so he did well in the hunter ring as well as jumpers.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

Pretty little mare. She has solid looking legs minus those feet, which, compared to some of the feet I've seen, really aren't all TOO bad. In serious need of a trim yes, but I don't think it will be months and months before you can start riding her lightly or anything.

What on earth made you think to try grabbing her tail to get her to go? LOL. I'd just get really serious with her (under supervision just in case). I ride a QH gelding sometimes for his owners who gets "stuck" and totally ignores every leg/seat cue to move forward to test you. It got to where he wouldn't move under saddle for ANYONE, and he was a very well saddle trained horse....no greenie. If you KNOW this mare is trained and capable of what you are asking, I'd get on her and give her a hard over-under with a crop or my reins on the shoulder/girth area (not butt). I did that with the gelding, he shot forward in suprise, I let him canter a few steps, pulled him up, and asked nicely again. Never tried to 'stick' on my again, and responded to very light cues from there on out. Some horses just insist that you earn the right to be on their back and prove how serious you are before they'll give you the time of day.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Yeah, I am thinking that I will keep working on lunging and then once her feet are trimmed I will get her going.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

And...she has her new and improved hooves!  The farrier has been trimming for 36 years and told me that she is going to make an awesome jumper. Says she has just the right build.


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

Did you find out in the end if she was pregnant ?


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I just ordered the WeeFoal 38 pregnancy test (doing it through WeeFoal since it is too late to detect twins and it will be cheaper this way. If she is pregnant, I then we will go to a vet)

So..I should be able to do the test in a couple days. But, while we're waiting, what's the best way to collect urine? I was going to tie a cloth to her tail so when she lifts it, it will dangle into the pee but she pees funny and folds her tail flat against her body. Weirdo. So, then my other idea was to tape a piece of gauze underneath her vulva, but I'm not sure how she would handle that.


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

You can wrap her tail and put it up in a mud knot to help keep it off of her to keep the sample clean.

To collect, wear gloves and either hold a cup up to her (Splatter warning!) or do what some show/ racing people do and put the cup on a broomstick (tape it on with duct tape) and put that under her, you'll get less splatter that way. But make sure she's okay with the broomstick method before just poking it at her.


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## my horse (May 23, 2013)

That sounds so exiting!! Pictures??? =D


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Thanks, Horseychick! Hopefully she will cooperate and pee when I am out there instead of making me follow her around all day. :/ My Horse, I posted pics already towards the beginning of the thread.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Give her a few tablespoons of salt. Tie her up next to a water bucket, and keep it full.
Then stand by. Take your lawn chair. 

She is very pretty! Good luck with her!


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## karliejaye (Nov 19, 2011)

Yep, as greentree mentioned. Bring a lawnchair and maybe even a book. But not one you get so engrossed in that you don't realize your horse is peeing, then when you look up they are done, so you have to give them more water and wait in the blazing sun for 4 more hours. Ask me how I know this...


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Haha, I will do that, Thanks!!  And will make sure to pay attention!


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## my horse (May 23, 2013)

Ebonyisforme, Sorry I didn't notice that. I read all the comments on the first page and didn't realize there where more. =P The horse is beautiful!!


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Thank you!


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Taking Lizzie and possibly Wisper to the vet for ultrasounds on the 23rd. I have no idea what's going on, but Lizzie has been limping on her right front leg. Only that one. So, we are also getting that checked out.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Let us know. Hopefully things turn out for the best.


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

Good luck with the ultrasounds and I hope Lizzie is okay.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Thanks guys, I am hoping that Lizzie isn't pregnant. If she is, I hope Wisper isn't. But, it is out of my hands now. And I am hoping for the best on Lizzie's leg. :/


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

How long has she been limping?


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

She started abruptly yesterday. The 23rd is the soonest I could get them in for.


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## Soccergoalie322 (May 20, 2014)

Did you get a PPE done before buying her? Hopefully it's nothing too serious


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Is it a severe limp?

Sudden and severe is usually an abscess.

Of course it could also be something serious. I don't know if I'd wait that long if she's outright limping... Tell the vet that she can't wait.

I would assume no to the PPE since she doesn't even know if the mare is pregnant or not. It's a shame.


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## Skipsfirstspike (Mar 22, 2010)

She is very pretty, I love a dappled grey 
If her feet haven't been done in a long time and the farrier just trimmed her, she could just be a bit ouchie from that alone. Usually a horse who is tender from a trim will be ok on grass but will limp on harder surfaces. 
Hopefully that is all it is


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Well...I finally got her to pee in a bucket. And....we got a negative!!    Now, has anyone ever had a WeeFoal test give a negative and then find out the horse actually is pregnant? If so, I will still get an ultrasound just in case, but I don't want to if it's not a chance.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Really happy that at least one is not pregnant!


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Go get an ultrasound done. I have had them come up negative and still had a mare be in foal. They are NOT accurate and possibly the worst pregnancy test on the market. 

An ultrasound will be about 98% more accurate and the vet can help determine what care the mare will need. This is coming from someone who works at a breeding farm, please, please get an ultrasound. They're worth it for the money.


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## Drifting (Oct 26, 2011)

Which WeeFoal did you use? The 38 day one, or the one that's for 120 days?

Get an ultrasound done on her.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I used the 120. I will get an ultrasound done anyway. If anything, to double check and know for sure she doesn't have a baby. I was told she had contact with stallion in February or March. Which would put her between...around 150 or 120.


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

Ebonyisforme said:


> Really happy that at least one is not pregnant!


Would you be really happy if it turned out Wisper was the open mare? The mare you sent to a stud? Because that's what it sounds like.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

No. The pee test came back negative for Lizzie. Nothing else has been done yet. The vet appointment is next week. 


Btw is Lizzie still lame?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

Yogiwick said:


> No. The pee test came back negative for Lizzie. Nothing else has been done yet. The vet appointment is next week.
> 
> 
> Btw is Lizzie still lame?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I THINK this was directed at me, correct me if I'm wrong 😄 I know that Lizzie has been checked, my confusion stems from Ebony's excited word choice that "at least" one of them was NOT pregnant.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Ah gotchya. (Yes I couldn't quote on my phone sorry lol).

I see what you are saying but think Ebony had a wake up call when she realized that they could both be pregnant and is just glad that that is not (likely) the case. I'm glad the vet is verifying either way.

I think at this point Ebony maybe realizes it would be better if neither were pregnant though I obviously can't speak for her.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Yeah, Yogiwick is right. I sent Wisper to stud and then purchased Lizzie and discovered after purchase she could be pregnant. Really didn't want two pregnant horses because while I could most likely handle the stress of one, but definitely not two within weeks of each other. So, if one was pregnant, I wanted the other not to be. 

In fact, I started thinking about how stressful my life is right now and how a pregnant horse would just add onto that stress and I am not 100% sure right now, but maybe after vet appointment this Tuesday, if neither are pregnant, I won't send Wisper to stud again. But, I don't know yet. We will have to see. I am torn. I really don't want her to be pregnant, but I do at the same time. :/


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Just see what the vet says and take it from there. I think you have the right plan.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

We've got good news, bad news, and horrible news. First, the good news. Wisper is not carrying a baby. On the flipside, Lizzie is. Vet thinks she is between 2-3 months along, leaning more toward 2. And, the horrible news...the whole reason I bought Lizzie is so I could jump. Well, turns out that dream crashed and burned. She has ringbone arthritis and the vet doesn't think she will be sound for anything beyond light riding.  We are going to try to pinpoint exactly where it is, get shoes on her, and block out the nerves so that she isn't in pain. But, beyond that, he said there isn't much we can do. I don't know what to do anymore. I've got a pregnant lame horse.


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

Aw girl :hug: that's so sad. Did you get a PPE done on her when you bought her?


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

No, I didn't because they were hauling her 3 hours for us and there wasn't time.  Probably a stupid idea.


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## karliejaye (Nov 19, 2011)

:hug:Ebony, I am so sorry to hear Lizzie's prognosis. That is the pits. Welcome to the horse world! Stick around horses long enough and one of "those stories" becomes your story. 
Just my 2 cents, if you keep her for riding, even light riding, I would NOT cut nerves (if I read that right). Blocking nerves temporarily for diagnosis is one thing, but permanently severing nerves puts her at a disadvantage and is very dangerous for the rider, since the horse essentially loses the ability to feel anything with that foot, and can easily step in a hole and they often trip more. But, it was over 10 years ago I was given the option to sever nerves on a lame horse or retire him, so things may have changed/advanced. Talk out the pro's and con's with your vet.
At least you only have ONE preggo mare to contend with :wink: Any idea who/what the stud is?


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## NavigatorsMom (Jan 9, 2012)

Well, I'm glad you know what's going on with each of your horses now. And I'm sorry that Lizzie is lame.

But you should let this be a lesson, and in the future ALWAYS get that PPE. You could have saved so much time, money, energy and worry if you had gotten her checked out before buying.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

get her on a joint supliment and look at possibly plastic/rubber shoes (like the groudn controle shoe or easy shoes) as that will help with her pain. BUT! not all is lost. look on the bright side. you have a very beautiful mare who is carrying a foal who MIGHT be your next jumper. you wanted a lesson horse for kids to ride and you want a jumper AND you wanted a foal. you might have one with in her belly. what was the stud? if she is registerd as half arabian you could do breed shows for showmanship and halter. things that she can do annd you can still enjoy her.


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## my horse (May 23, 2013)

I'm so sorry to hear that. =(


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

She's not registered. We are going back in to block the nerve temporarily to pinpoint where the arthritis is. Not cutting. The stud is a quarter horse so the foal is going to be a major mutt. 1/4 Arabian, 1/4 Tennessee Walker, 1/2 Quarter horse.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Okay...advice from those of you who have had arthritis in horses? Shoes or boots? Injections? What kind of supplements? Anything else?


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

My Hunter has arthritis. While showing he was shod on all four feet, and received bi-yearly injections running at about $600 a pop. He was on supplements too, but I forgot what they were...


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Awesome, thanks. The vet recommended shoes on her front feet (arthritis is in her front left) but I don't know if that would be better or worse than just some good boots. I have been shopping around for supplements but I don't want to spend $$$ until I figure out what would be best for her. I am definitely going to keep her until she has her baby and then..who knows? We are thinking about maybe having her foal be my jumper if it works out but the problem is that my parents don't want anymore horses. So, I would have to sell another horse in order to keep her foal. I am so confused and just don't know what to do. The whole reason I bought her is so I could jump, now I can't, but I don't want to sell her either...


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## karliejaye (Nov 19, 2011)

In the first vet exam, did he do X-rays or is the vet speculating that it is ringbone? If it's just speculation at this point, don't get too worked up. Wait for the full lameness exam including the nerve blocks. It could be career ending arthritis, or it could be manageable. The TB I did 3 day eventing with had arthritis in his hocks. He got hock injections with HA every 6 months (expensive!) and was on glucosamine, chondroitin, and one other joint supplement. We also ensured he had turnout almost 24/7 and if he was stalled it was in a big stall (he was a big horse at 17+hh) with very deep bedding. He got liniment rub downs after riding, and even though he was a jumper, we only jumped once a week, usually smaller stuff, only doing prelim sized stuff once a month or so. Remember, jumping is 95% dressage with obstacles thrown in! 
Don't write her off as a jumper until you get x rays and the full lameness exam done! Then it is a question of how much you can afford on management.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

He didn't do xrays but he could feel a bump and then flexed her hoof and noticed it got worse after that so he is pretty sure it is ringbone. Told me to keep her on bute as of right now until we can schedule a full workup.


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

Ebonyisforme said:


> Awesome, thanks. The vet recommended shoes on her front feet (arthritis is in her front left) but I don't know if that would be better or worse than just some good boots. I have been shopping around for supplements but I don't want to spend $$$ until I figure out what would be best for her. I am definitely going to keep her until she has her baby and then..who knows? We are thinking about maybe having her foal be my jumper if it works out but the problem is that my parents don't want anymore horses. So, I would have to sell another horse in order to keep her foal. I am so confused and just don't know what to do. The whole reason I bought her is so I could jump, now I can't, but I don't want to sell her either...


 You are doing what you can right now and that is all you need to think about. I do feel that your parents are right about the total number of horses and at some point you do need to decide what horses are important to keep and what might be important to replace. There is nothing wrong with selling a horse to a good home and replacing it with a horse that is better suited to your needs. These are practical decisions that you will have to make in your life if you intend on staying involved with horses


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Thanks, Textan. That makes me feel a lot better. The problem is that I have no idea which would have to go. I love them all equally, the one of least use is probably Wisper, but I love her too much to let her go. Then it would be Lizzie, but same deal with her. :/


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

Any good joint supliment should work for her. Apple cider vinagr is good for removeing calsium build up. We give it to all our horses. They can't live in boots so they would be mostl pointless. I would recamend a synthetic shoe as it adds cushin and makes walking less painfull.


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

Ebonyisforme said:


> Thanks, Textan. That makes me feel a lot better. The problem is that I have no idea which would have to go. I love them all equally, the one of least use is probably Wisper, but I love her too much to let her go. Then it would be Lizzie, but same deal with her. :/


 Totally understood, Right now Lizzie is an unknown commodity. Hopefully she will be sound enough for light riding and all will go well with her foaling but you don't know any of that yet so you don't have to make any decision. As for Wisper or any of the others, You don't have to think about selling any of them now either. I will just say that loving a horse does not mean that someone else won't love the horse as much as we do, or that it won't have as good a home as we give it with someone else.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Just curious, why keep Lizzy and the foal? Neither of them suit your needs right now. You won't be riding this foal for another FIVE years, let alone jumping it. Plus who knows with this odd mix of horses... It doesn't sound like this baby's jumping career is starting off on the right foot to begin with. 

Personally, I'd get Lizzy sound then sell her long to someone who is looking for a light riding horse. Maybe even make a contract with the new owners to buy back the baby if your set on it. 

Wasn't she lame when you first looked at her or brought her home?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

Ebonyisforme said:


> Awesome, thanks. The vet recommended shoes on her front feet (arthritis is in her front left) but I don't know if that would be better or worse than just some good boots. I have been shopping around for supplements but I don't want to spend $$$ until I figure out what would be best for her. I am definitely going to keep her until she has her baby and then..who knows? We are thinking about maybe having her foal be my jumper if it works out but* the problem is that my parents don't want anymore horses. So, I would have to sell another horse in order to keep her foal.* I am so confused and just don't know what to do. The whole reason I bought her is so I could jump, now I can't, but I don't want to sell her either...


I'm a little confused here. If your parents don't want anymore horses, why were you breeding Wisper? I know that she ended up not pregnant, but what was your plan if she was? Were you going to have to end up selling two other horses?


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

No, we had a deal with Wisper that if my mom liked the foal, we would keep it since it is another pony, not a full grown horse.


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

Ebonyisforme said:


> No, we had a deal with Wisper that if my mom liked the foal, we would keep it since it is another pony, not a full grown horse.


I am saying this in the nicest possible way ever, maybe you should cut your losses and sell the ones that aren't useful to you and buy one that is with the proper PPE of course.


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

Ebonyisforme said:


> No, we had a deal with Wisper that if my mom liked the foal, we would keep it since it is another pony, not a full grown horse.


 Now that makes no sense to me what so ever. Another pony still is an expense and requires care and training. The reality is that you can give better and more individual care to fewer horses than more, and when additional ones are not meeting the needs of the rider it's foolish.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

For what its worth, selling Lizzie might be hard. How many people do you know who want a relatively young, unsound, grade mare in foal to a grade stallion? That is a money pit waiting to happen. A horse like that is going to take a long, long time to find a good home for.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I think it would be worth asking if the old owner will take her back.


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

Yogiwick said:


> I think it would be worth asking if the old owner will take her back.


I agree with this. If the old owner can take her back and has her best interests in mind I would hope that he would take her. I know nothing about the seller, but I'd wonder if they knew about her lameness and was trying to get rid of her. 



Textan49 said:


> Now that makes no sense to me what so ever. Another pony still is an expense and requires care and training. The reality is that you can give better and more individual care to fewer horses than more, and when additional ones are not meeting the needs of the rider it's foolish.


I agree with this. Almost every girl has the fantasy of having multiple horses... definitely been there myself! However, with the amount of money and effort spent on multiple unsound horses it can be much less expensive and more satisfying in the long run to get a PPE and have only one ideal horse. Much less money spent on basic care (feed, vet, farrier, tack, etc) since there are fewer horses. You'll have to put some money upfront for the PPE, but that'll drastically reduce the likelihood of being stuck with a lame or pregnant horse. More time can be spent riding and training one horse to jump (or whatever the discipline in question). Of course, finding homes for the less than marketable ones can be difficult.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I am of the opinion that the original owner knew this horse had a medical condition and did not wish to have it on their hands any longer. I can't imagine why anyone else would trailer a horse three hours one way to a near stranger they met on the internet. Much less when that stranger is a teenage girl. The original owner delivered the horse with its feet in bad condition to allow the new owner to presume that poor foot condition was the reason for any unsoundness, this was probably combined with a heavy dose of NSAIDs to make the horse appear sound. I can easily see someone having this mare turn up lame, get in with a stallion and than realize that they are spending an awful lot of time and money on a horse that is no longer usable and is causing trouble (i.e. getting in with a stud). I don't know that they knew the specific cause of lameness but I would be shocked if they didn't know it existed and double shocked if they take the mare back.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

rookie said:


> I am of the opinion that the original owner knew this horse had a medical condition and did not wish to have it on their hands any longer. I can't imagine why anyone else would trailer a horse three hours one way to a near stranger they met on the internet. Much less when that stranger is a teenage girl. The original owner delivered the horse with its feet in bad condition to allow the new owner to presume that poor foot condition was the reason for any unsoundness, this was probably combined with a heavy dose of NSAIDs to make the horse appear sound. I can easily see someone having this mare turn up lame, get in with a stallion and than realize that they are spending an awful lot of time and money on a horse that is no longer usable and is causing trouble (i.e. getting in with a stud). I don't know that they knew the specific cause of lameness but I would be shocked if they didn't know it existed and double shocked if they take the mare back.


Nope the stud was the one who got in with the mare. AND the owner didn't notice for several days so couldn't say how long they were together (???!!!!)

Definitely agree with the sentiment. Something seemed fishy from the get go, the guy seemed very eager for Ebony to take her. I didn't realize he had trailered her there himself.

Worth asking though. Say we are very disappointed but cannot take her. He does not NEED to take her back but I would approach it sounding like he does unless he points that out.


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

I'm going to have to agree with everyone else, Ebony. Sorry, this may not have been the outcome you wanted. Lizzie is lame, so there goes money down the drain and if you decide to keep her for whatever reason, you'll have very little left to provide for the foal, much less the other horses since you said you pay for them, and also the 50 cats you have. 

The foal may turn out to be a wreck in confo and breeding which may make it a bad jumper. And if you even wanted to jump with it, you'll have to wait AT LEAST 5 years before STARTING to train it. And maybe when its 7 you'll enter shows, IF said foal is not a confo wreck. Plus, you don't know how to raise and train a foal, much less teach one to jump. 

In five years time, or seven, you'll probably be in college (I'm sure your parents want you to go to college - and I highly stress it to, otherwise you'll be flipping burgers and making minimum wage which won't even cover a measly portion of a horse's expense). 

I know this is a disappointed answer but you should see if the owner will take her back, or else try to sell her to someone that WANTS to care for a lame horse and also KNOWS how to raise, train, and care for a foal.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Honestly as far as suitability the foal is probably the best part even though that's really not a good thing. IF it is perfect you still can't use it for another 6 years + (remember the mare is only recently bred so tack on another year). Then it's a lot of time and money to get it trained to that point and...maybe you won't "click"... This would be a REALLY good situation to lute...

This mare is young (right?) and will require expensive maintenance that will only get worse while likely not being rideable.

So you have a bunch of horses and only one is really rideable but you don't like her and you have 2 with expensive health issues. Oh and one is pregnant, but it's not the rideable one. One of which you just bought from a sketchy owner without guidance and after declining the highly recommended PPE.

This is the perfect example of our concerns, we are NOT trying to give you a hard time just to point out things that you haven't learned yet.

Honestly Ebony, and PLEASE listen to this and check with the vet. If this mare is outright _limping_ in the pasture is she sound to carry a foal for the next 10 months? Those foals add a LOT of weight and stress. It doesn't sound she is. I'm very very concerned about this.

And on that note if she is that sore now is it really best to make her stick around? If you follow my meaning... Doesn't sound it.

Ask your vet what they think would genuinely be best for you, whether that's selling/luting/PTS/drugs, etc.


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

DuckDodgers said:


> I agree with this. Almost every girl has the fantasy of having multiple horses... definitely been there myself! However, with the amount of money and effort spent on multiple unsound horses it can be much less expensive and more satisfying in the long run to get a PPE and have only one ideal horse. Much less money spent on basic care (feed, vet, farrier, tack, etc) since there are fewer horses. You'll have to put some money upfront for the PPE, but that'll drastically reduce the likelihood of being stuck with a lame or pregnant horse. More time can be spent riding and training one horse to jump (or whatever the discipline in question). Of course, finding homes for the less than marketable ones can be difficult.


 I think the OP was following her heart and being a young person did not think things through in a practical way although advice was given on this forum. I am disappointed that her parents have not been more involved in these ventures. If they are not horse people they could have insisted that a reliable person be involved in some of the decisions. Now we have a young person who does love horses faced with some difficult decisions.


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## ojzab (Aug 6, 2014)

Textan49 said:


> I think the OP was following her heart and being a young person did not think things through in a practical way although advice was given on this forum. I am disappointed that her parents have not been more involved in these ventures. If they are not horse people they could have insisted that a reliable person be involved in some of the decisions. Now we have a young person who does love horses faced with some difficult decisions.


The parents are the ones who are paying for the horses, directly or indirectly. As a parent myself I can't quite get a clear picture of how it is at all possible for the OP who is a young teen to seemingly be on her own with respect to decision making regarding the horses. 

I just can't imagine a family environment where a child buys a horse without a PPE. It is not a hamster or a small pet that a child can buy and provide for with their own money. OP, where are your parents in all this??? What are *they* saying?


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I do pay for Lizzie and Wisper. My parents think I should keep her until her foal is born and then possibly sell her and keep the foal.


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

Ebonyisforme said:


> I do pay for Lizzie and Wisper. My parents think I should keep her until her foal is born and then possibly sell her and keep the foal.


Have you ever handled a foal, Ebony? This is not going to be a mini baby.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Not a whole lot. I have handled a foal a couple times. I am actually really nervous about it. My jumping lesson teacher breeds every year so I am going to get her to help me.


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

In that case I would honestly recommend selling the foal. If it is a colt - can you afford to get it gelded as soon as possible?


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

Ebonyisforme said:


> Not a whole lot. I have handled a foal a couple times. I am actually really nervous about it. My jumping lesson teacher breeds every year so I am going to get her to help me.


Why didn't you buy a horse from her?


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

Ebonyisforme said:


> Not a whole lot. I have handled a foal a couple times. I am actually really nervous about it. My jumping lesson teacher breeds every year so I am going to get her to help me.


If you have to wait until she gives birth fine, but can you at least find out from the old owner what stallion got in with her? 

Can you afford to geld the foal if its a colt?
Help Lizzie with supplements and other treatments to keep her paddock sound but also afford whatever she needs with her pregnancy? 
Are your parents going to be paying for this?

You say you pay for Lizzie and whisper but this is going to get really expensive really quickly. I think you are in over your head and you are going to get hurt or in some trouble. You need to make a decision about what you're going to do and make a plan to support it.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I know I need to make a decision. I just can't make one!!  I don't want Wisper to leave, nor do I want Lizzie to. Both Midnight and Belle are used daily.


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

I really think you should sell Lizzie. I know you love her but she'll just be a money pit. No offense, but she needs to go to a home that can afford her care and only use her for light riding.


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

Textan49 said:


> I think the OP was following her heart and being a young person did not think things through in a practical way although advice was given on this forum. I am disappointed that her parents have not been more involved in these ventures. If they are not horse people they could have insisted that a reliable person be involved in some of the decisions. Now we have a young person who does love horses faced with some difficult decisions.


Based on the previous threads that is obviously the case. Still, good intentions and following one's heart can often times lead to bad situations like this one. 

Unfortunately, it looks like this situation is turning out to be a real wake up call to the realities of the horse world. I am sorry that you have to learn these lessons the hard way, and it does sound like you'll be having some tough decisions to make.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Unless your vet has X-ray hands you don't really know what is going on with Lizzie. She could have just sprained something after a trailer ride & being ridden with bad feet. Get some X-rays & find out what is going on because really, right now it's just a guess.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Yup, Monday is xrays and blocking nerves temporarily.


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

Ebonyisforme said:


> I know I need to make a decision. I just can't make one!!  I don't want Wisper to leave, nor do I want Lizzie to. Both Midnight and Belle are used daily.


 As far as Lizzie goes wait until you know exactly what her problem is. That is important to know if you want to return her, sell her, or keep her. The worse case scenario would be that she will never be sound enough to ride and then my suggestion would be to try and get the seller to take her back. If she was sold to you and not one of your parents, the seller may be liable for doing business with a minor AND selling a horse he knew was lame. 

This should be a wakeup call and you do need to put emotions and sentiment aside. We all make mistakes, and when we do we have to suffer the consequences. I don't see the decision being what horse should go. I see it as deciding what is important to you in the long run. If keeping horses that you are attached to is more important than having one that meets your riding needs, don't sell anyone and wait to make a decision on the foal when it arrives.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I see what you are saying, I just don't know what I want. I love jumping and want to be able to, but I love Lizzie and Wisper. I just don't know which I want/need more.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Ebonyisforme said:


> I see what you are saying, I just don't know what I want. I love jumping and want to be able to, but I love Lizzie and Wisper. I just don't know which I want/need more.


What benefit (not talking emotional benefit here, but real tangible benefit) is there to keeping Lizzie or Wisper? You can't jump either one, period. You aren't even sure if you will be able to ride Lizzie at all. If you end up not being able to ride her, do you really want to pay for the upkeep of a horse that is essentially a pasture ornament? It doesn't matter how pretty or sweet she is. That's going to get real old, real fast. Plus if she needs extra supplements or special shoeing or anything like that, that's an additional cost on top of all the other stuff you have going on.


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## lostastirrup (Jan 6, 2015)

Its hard but as an owner you have to make decisions in the interest of the animal and yourself without letting your emotions get in the way. What satisfies Lizzie- or any horse for that matter is health and feed. If you keep her and it turns out she is only sound for light riding- you will be disapointed and may constantly worry that you are pushing her too hard. But if you can sell her as a companion or to someone less ambitious they may have a better time with her. Same goes with Whisper. Whatever you decide keep in mind you may not be the best match for either horse and while you may love them the best thing for either of you is to move on. Unfortunately it's part of growing up- I know because I am attempting to grow up myself and come to terms with leaving the 'projects' that I have been able to treat as mine for the last four years. Best of luck, I am praying for you as you make your decisions.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Thank you both. I am kind of leaning towards selling both Lizzie and foal after foaling but we will have to see. If I don't sit there and think about what that would mean (them leaving) then I can see that is most logical. Either that, or Wisper.


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Sell the mare and foal. In all honesty they haven't been with you that long; they're not a good investment (an unsound mare and a 7 year long pasture ornament). Next look at Wisper. Do you really need this horse? She doesn't jump, which is what you want to do. 

If you sell all three you may get enough to help you buy a horse WITH your instructors guidance AND get a PPE done on them so you avoid this problem next time.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Great idea Incitatis.

Why sell after foaling if you are going to sell? Sell her now. It's ridiculous to put another year+ into a sale horse when it's not going to raise her value or anything. (Different if you were putting in training). Honestly you may be able to give her to a rescue. They could find a good home for a foal and either keep the mare or find a companion home for her. This is a LOT of time and money and also in another year you will very well be truly attached, you may like her now but you aren't truly attached you don't even really know her yet.

Sell her now and I think selling Wisper too to purchase a riding horse would be a good idea.

I think you are learning a very good lesson here..


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

Yogiwick said:


> Great idea Incitatis.
> 
> Why sell after foaling if you are going to sell? Sell her now. It's ridiculous to put another year+ into a sale horse when it's not going to raise her value or anything. (Different if you were putting in training). Honestly you may be able to give her to a rescue. They could find a good home for a foal and either keep the mare or find a companion home for her. This is a LOT of time and money and also in another year you will very well be truly attached, you may like her now but you aren't truly attached you don't even really know her yet.
> 
> ...





Incitatus32 said:


> Sell the mare and foal. In all honesty they haven't been with you that long; they're not a good investment (an unsound mare and a 7 year long pasture ornament). Next look at Wisper. Do you really need this horse? She doesn't jump, which is what you want to do.
> 
> If you sell all three you may get enough to help you buy a horse WITH your instructors guidance AND get a PPE done on them so you avoid this problem next time.


 Spot on as usual. It is a hard decision one heaps of people on this forum have had to go through but if you want to jump then you need a horse for jumping since wisper is to small and lizzies soundness is in question selling is a good idea and a smarter option. 
Although as stated above see how the X-Rays and nerve blocking turns out and go from their on what to do.

This is obviously a hard lesson to learn but a necessary one.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

Ebony, while I'm not nearly as young as you, I recently had to make a similar decision. I had a baby in March, and thought I could still put time into my gelding as well as spend time with my two older mares. I was offered by a friend of my father's to buy my gelding, at first I said no. This is a horse I got as a yearling and started myself, he's now 9 and broke. After thinking it through I decided it was best for my family and him as well to go to another home. 

He is happy, getting used every day and spoiled rotten. I'm thrilled with the way it turned out. 

I also have a 22 year old mare with arthritis and an old knee injury. She is my heart horse, the love of my life. I've had her for 15 years and we did everything together until she injured her knee. She's mostly sound, and looking at her she looks to be in perfect health. But winters are getting harder and harder for her, and so it getting her feet trimmed. I don't know how much more I want to put her through. 

She only deserves the best, and while I could put money into surgery and xrays and tons of joint supplements...is it really worth it for just a few more years of being maybe sound? I have a very tough decision to make come fall. And I'm leaning towards just letting her go peacefully before it gets to the point where she's really in pain.

Point being, I understand. I also have a 22 year old Shetland I've had for 19 years. I dread the day I have to make a decision for her as well. You'll know what the best thing to do is for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

I agree that the horse needs to be sold, but let me offer a word of caution. Be careful who you sell that mare to. A lame, pregnant, mutt mare who's foal will be a mutt as well is not a good candidate for a great home. They of course exist and I'm sure you can find someone who is willing to take a chance on her, but don't expect it to come easily, and don't expect to recoup whatever you paid for her. All she is is a liability, especially if she's hobbling around with a foal in utero. Check out the person who buys her thoroughly, to give her the best chance possible.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

sending her to a rescue is a good idea. who knows maybe you will find a horse there thats a usable good riding horse. AND you can get its vet records!


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Okay, I have made a small decision. It only solves one of my problems, but at least it is something. I want to keep her until foaling because like was said, a mutt horse with a mutt foal isn't going to be worth much and could easily go to a bad home. So, if I keep her until then, I will probably be saving my money until then for emergencies, if the foal is a colt, I may or may not keep it, if it is a filly, I will sell it when it is weaned so I can sell them separately. 

If I got $1000 for each (that is usually what horses go for if you sell them at the right time here) then I would have $2000 plus whatever is left from my emergency fund and could possibly buy a fancy, well trained horse with a ppe. Ideas?


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

Ebonyisforme said:


> Okay, I have made a small decision. It only solves one of my problems, but at least it is something. I want to keep her until foaling because like was said, a mutt horse with a mutt foal isn't going to be worth much and could easily go to a bad home. So, if I keep her until then, I will probably be saving my money until then for emergencies, if the foal is a colt, I may or may not keep it, if it is a filly, I will sell it when it is weaned so I can sell them separately.
> 
> If I got $1000 for each (that is usually what horses go for if you sell them at the right time here) then I would have $2000 plus whatever is left from my emergency fund and could possibly buy a fancy, well trained horse with a ppe. Ideas?


But if lizzie has an issue obviously depending on severity you won't get $1000 for her you would be lucky getting $500. I am not trying to be rude or unkind but you are going in circles you still end up with another horse that won't be useful for a long period of time. You are better off whether colt or filly selling both and getting something more appropriate obviously keeping until she foals is totally up to you.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Ohhhh....everytime I think about selling Lizzie or Wisper I just start hyperventilating and crying. I am panicking. I don't know what to do! You all have very good points. I want to jump and I can't because I don't have a horse and my trainer is on maternity leave. But I can't handle even thinking about losing either one.


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

Ebonyisforme said:


> Ohhhh....everytime I think about selling Lizzie or Wisper I just start hyperventilating and crying. I am panicking. I don't know what to do! You all have very good points. I want to jump and I can't because I don't have a horse and my trainer is on maternity leave. But I can't handle even thinking about losing either one.


Alright well first wait for the X-Rays and tests to come back on lizzie so you can really pinpoint the problem but although this is hard you should also know that everyone here understands that. But you have to realise is it worth all your money and time on three horses all of which do not meet your requirement s? 
Maybe it is best for you to sell them and wait until your trainer gets back before even thinking about another horse this gives you time to come up with qualities and things you want your jumping horse to have and have accomplished already. 



If you choose to keep them that's fine and totally up to you to decide but remember either choice you live with the consequences. 




Also you are young remember that you have plenty of time to get everything you want so don't try to fit it all in one go.


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## tinaev (Dec 2, 2012)

Why does the sex of the foal have anything to do with whether or not you will keep it? I'm not following that train of thought.

Also, at least in my area, $1000 for a yearling foal is what you get if you have something really special. Not just a grade foal. And $1000 for a lame horse? You'd never even get close. I think you need to take money out of the equation here and just do what is best for yourself and the horses in question. To me, rehoming Lizzie would be a no brainer because you wouldn't be as attached to her yet as you are to your others. You took a chance on her and it didn't work out. It's not like you have put years and years worth of care and emotions into her.

I would hold off making any decisions right now until you hear more from your vet. My best friend's horse was diagnosed with ring bone a little more than a year ago. The vets instructions were to give him one full year off. She has done that and at this point the poor thing is in such pain daily she's probably going to be putting him down within the next couple of weeks. So to me, a ring bone horse is nothing I would want to get emotionally invested in if it's avoidable.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Ebonyisforme said:


> Okay, I have made a small decision. It only solves one of my problems, but at least it is something. I want to keep her until foaling because like was said, a mutt horse with a mutt foal isn't going to be worth much and could easily go to a bad home. So, if I keep her until then, I will probably be saving my money until then for emergencies, if the foal is a colt, I may or may not keep it, if it is a filly, I will sell it when it is weaned so I can sell them separately.
> 
> If I got $1000 for each (that is usually what horses go for if you sell them at the right time here) then I would have $2000 plus whatever is left from my emergency fund and could possibly buy a fancy, well trained horse with a ppe. Ideas?


Ebony I am glad you have made a decision though I have to say as a rational adult with a lot of experience in the equine industry that does NOT make sense to me.
A lame grade mare in foal isn't worth much no, neither is a lame grade mare and her grade foal whether sold together or separately. The foal could also be a complete trainwreck or have issues, etc. Why make a point of selling them separately? That seems odd. It's not like she will be gone over night, start advertising her now. That's another year of a LOT of money and effort and you WILL get more attached, you barely know her now. All for quite possibly a WORSE outcome. I just don't get your logic. Nothing changes for the better by keeping her. The lame mutt mare with a mutt foal is still just that. Plus all of this plus the effort to keep her sound through the pregnancy. DO ask the vet if she thinks she will stay sound through the pregnancy. I will say again, see if a rescue will take her.

How will you be saving money by keeping her? I don't get why you would keep a colt but not a filly, but keeping the foal would be the ONLY reason to keep this mare at this point and honestly just not a worthwhile idea.

You have another year til this mare foals another 6 months until the foal is weaned THEN you want to sell the mare and "maybe" sell the foal.. IF you keep the foal (keeping in mind you know NOTHING about foals let alone the breeding process/training/etc) you then have a minimum 4 years WITH a lot of money and help to get a possibly decent riding horse then you have another couple years before you should be jumping period. I would not be jumping a horse regularly until they were 7 or so. Lightly at younger ages sure.

You just don't know what you are doing, which is FINE, except that you don't realize it. Think back to what a wake up call this situation was. The time period until you have a good using horse is HALF your life so far. I know you don't realize what that means but after the time has gone back I can assure you will be thinking "what was I thinking then".

I don't know your area I'll admit but I think in most parts of the country $1,000 for a young lame grade mare (companion horse) and $1,000 for a probably best case average quality grade weanling (you will need to put training into this foal even if you sell it as soon as weaned) are equally absurd. Especially if you want a good home. Right here I would price her at say $200 if you wanted to sell her now and this is a VERY horse friendly and expensive area. If you think these horses will go for $1,000 each but a "fancy" horse will go for $2,000 that doesn't make sense. I don't think you have a good concept of money.

I do think you should use the money from any and all sales and save up for a horse $2,000 should at least get you something broke and sound! It's frustrating since I know I for one specifically said "get a PPE" especially since the owner was very questionable, you just won't take advice and think you know best. Hey, I get it, I was a teenager once too and am still very stubborn  not trying to give you a hard time.

I know my post is blunt and borderline critical but I'm saying it how it is Ebony and truly want the best for you and your horses. I just hope you actually hear what I (and others) are saying this time.

See what the vet says and unless something changes hugely with the diagnosis list her asap. Yeah it will take a little longer to find a good home but that's the horse you bought and a good home with a responsible experienced adult with reliable income would honestly be much better for you AND the horse. If you truly don't want to do this get a second vet opinion but ask what THEY think would be best. Again, ask about soundness during pregnancy as well because I really don't see her being able to handle it.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Ebony if you are truly this upset to the point you are hyperventilating and in tears about a horse you just bought I would really suggest talking to someone. I think emotional attachment issues are getting in the way of the rational decision here. Even Wisper is relatively new to you, I don't think you know what it is to be truly attached (yet) and there is something more going on. I get that you don't WANT to sell them and are frustrated with the situation but this level of reaction to it is not normal. Both of them are relatively new to you (Lizzie very obviously). Neither are suitable nor horses that should of been bought in the first place. You are learning this the hard way, you just can't have everything. Get a GOOD RIDING horse and go fall in love!

I am glad others agree with me on the prices, it sounded pretty..silly to me. I think that's what you WANT them to be worth, but doesn't work like that.

Start with the vet, then figure out the plan with Lizzie. (I cannot emphasize enough I would sell her NOW and price her at FAR less, you will NOT get your money back on this one and NO good reason to wait). I think selling Wisper to get a good riding horse is an excellent idea BUT this comes AFTER figuring out Lizzie. One step at a time, you are overwhelming yourself.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Thanks, I am waiting for the xrays to make a final decision. Part of me thinks that I should just deal with what I have and give up on jumping for a while so I don't have to give up on Lizzie. If I don't show, jumping wouldn't go anywhere anyway.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Er I "like" the above post but she's not pasture sound at the moment so she may not even be riding sound. IF the vet says "she should be fine but no jumping" that would make sense but sounds like (currently) "she has an expensive and permanent issue that will only get worse and it's already pretty bad and she *might* be sound enough for a stroll around the field but she won't be pasture sound at 15". I don't think you appreciate how expensive stuff like this is. DO see what the vet says and if the prognosis is good that may be an option but it doesn't really sound like it is. I wouldn't really consider that unless the vet said something surprising, it's not a logical decision but an emotional one.

Either way you won't be giving up on her. Sending a horse to a good home is never a bad thing.


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

Yogiwick said:


> Er I "like" the above post but she's not pasture sound at the moment so she may not even be riding sound. IF the vet says "she should be fine but no jumping" that would make sense but sounds like (currently) "she has an expensive and permanent issue that will only get worse and it's already pretty bad and she *might* be sound enough for a stroll around the field but she won't be pasture sound at 15". I don't think you appreciate how expensive stuff like this is. DO see what the vet says and if the prognosis is good that may be an option but it doesn't really sound like it is. I wouldn't really consider that unless the vet said something surprising, it's not a logical decision but an emotional one.
> 
> Either way you won't be giving up on her. Sending a horse to a good home is never a bad thing.





Yogiwick said:


> Ebony if you are truly this upset to the point you are hyperventilating and in tears about a horse you just bought I would really suggest talking to someone. I think emotional attachment issues are getting in the way of the rational decision here. Even Wisper is relatively new to you, I don't think you know what it is to be truly attached (yet) and there is something more going on. I get that you don't WANT to sell them and are frustrated with the situation but this level of reaction to it is not normal. Both of them are relatively new to you (Lizzie very obviously). Neither are suitable nor horses that should of been bought in the first place. You are learning this the hard way, you just can't have everything. Get a GOOD RIDING horse and go fall in love!
> 
> I am glad others agree with me on the prices, it sounded pretty..silly to me. I think that's what you WANT them to be worth, but doesn't work like that.
> 
> Start with the vet, then figure out the plan with Lizzie. (I cannot emphasize enough I would sell her NOW and price her at FAR less, you will NOT get your money back on this one and NO good reason to wait). I think selling Wisper to get a good riding horse is an excellent idea BUT this comes AFTER figuring out Lizzie. One step at a time, you are overwhelming yourself.





Yogiwick said:


> Ebonyisforme said:
> 
> 
> > Okay, I have made a small decision. It only solves one of my problems, but at least it is something. I want to keep her until foaling because like was said, a mutt horse with a mutt foal isn't going to be worth much and could easily go to a bad home. So, if I keep her until then, I will probably be saving my money until then for emergencies, if the foal is a colt, I may or may not keep it, if it is a filly, I will sell it when it is weaned so I can sell them separately.
> ...


You hit the nail on the head here. As I said above whatever you choose to do realise you have to deal with consequences which means if you keep them that you might not be able to ride lizzie but this foal may not be useful until 5 or useful at all. 

We just want what's best for you and your horses please understand and reevaluate how you are approaching this.


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## ojzab (Aug 6, 2014)

Ebonyisforme said:


> I do pay for Lizzie and Wisper. My parents think I should keep her until her foal is born and then possibly sell her and keep the foal.


What expenses do you personally cover monthly / regularly? Food? Supplements? Basic care like ointments, fly spray etc? Farrier? Vet bills? What if the vet bills exceed what you can afford? Will your parents pay them or will you go without vet care? Will your parents pay for your horses if you lose your source of income? 

If they will, then it means your parents *are* paying for your horses. If they won't, you shouldn't be having horses because you are not prepared to handle extensive medical issues or an emergency. 

You portray your parents here as incompetent, irresponsible and uncaring. If it is really the case, you shouldn't rely on their support when a crisis hits and this means that you probably shouldn't be having horseS because as a young minor you unfortunately don't have the freedoms and the resources that one needs to have in order to support animals. 

If your parents are truly they way you describe them, I'm sorry. Slow down with horses, focus 100% of your energy on education so that you have options and opportunities in the future.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I pay all fees, everything. I guess if i couldn't pay for the vet bills, they would but so far, that hasn't happened.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

But you don't have reliable income (a long term job). Nor are you even old enough to legally hold one.

That doesn't trouble you? It should. I'm 25 and I couldn't afford all fees for all horses on my own (3 horses). Hey I did a decent job when I was in my older teens and living at home and working full time and not having any expenses, but that's not life. Even then I did not pay 100%. I am lucky to have parents that are knowledgeable and care about the animals as much as I do even if they are "mine". When I can I will take over and move them closer to me (decent board is $500/month x 3, with my parents it's free) but for now I help out.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

I agree with Yogi regarding your reaction to selling either one of these horses. I've had my gelding since he was a basically unhandled 2yo stud colt. He's now six and every drop of training he has (except his initial backing and first four rides), I put into him through long hours. I am VERY attached to him. He is my baby. However, if it came down to it and I had to sell him, whether because he wasn't what I wanted/needed anymore or because of financial issues, I would have to make that decision. I may not like it, but it would not cause me to hyperventilate. 

I get that you're young and passionate, but hyperventilating and crying uncontrollably over a horse you've had two weeks is a bit extreme, regardless of how much you like her. 

I'm not trying to be mean. Just that your reaction is a bit worrisome.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

You really ought to call the people you bought Lizzie from and see of they will take her back and refund your money. You can't wait too long before you will have no hope of getting your money back out of her because you certainly aren't going to get much if anything out of her with her issues. What are you going to do 6 or so months down the road when she is in constant pain trying to carry the weight of a foal? I had a mare who developed ringbone later on her life so believe me when I tell you there is NO good outcome.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

I agree with trying to find a reputable rescue and surrendering her. If she has any kind of artheritis at all you won't get $1000 for her. Horses like her are given away here, and we have a great horse market. If your parents won't pay for her care it isn't fair to HER if you keep her. Just to keep her healthy during pregnancy if she does have ring bone will require shoes with pads ($100+ each time), vet checks frequently, higher quality feed, possible Bute and then probisos + ulcer guard to counter the bute if she is in pain, etc. Then you'll need the vet out to check the foal after birth, check iG, etc, then Lizzie will need extra feed while nursing her foal. The foal will need vaccinations, deworming, farrier wotk, etc for 4 months or more. Foals are expensive and it isnt fair for either of them if you cant afford it.

I KNOW this is hard. Believe me I do. I sold my heart horse, Kenzie, after spending months and months rehabbing her, sleeping in her stall, wondering if she would live. It killed me to sell her. But she had an umbilical hernia that, as a high school student self supporting her, I couldn't afford. It would have been wrong to keep her as much as wanted to. I agonized over it but reality was she needed more than i could offer her. So I sold her...for a whopping $200, to a phenomenal woman who got the surgery for her and loved her just as much as I did. I know it was the right decision... Even after she died (no fault to her owner) last year tragically.


You will get more attached the longer you keep Lizzie, and same with the foal. Sell her now, totally truthful to the new owner, and don't worry about money. Ask a fee big enough to keep people serious, and require references. That's what I did and I am now good friends with Kenzie ' owner. This isn't about you, it is about what is right for Lizzie.


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

There has been some very good advice here. I think once we go past the point of owning one horse and are into owning several, that it is important to take a rational business like approach to things. I am not suggesting being cold hearted, but you do need to look at the whole picture. You only have so much time, money, energy, and knowledge to handle what you are doing. Lizzie was a nice idea but not carefully thought out. We have all made mistakes in our lives and it is our job to find the best solution for correcting them. It is very unfortunate that you are so stressed over this situation and neither of your parents are helping you through this. Get the results from the vet on Lizzie's lameness and find the best way to cut your losses and move on. There is no good way out of this. Even if she is not permanently unsound, you will not be able to do much with her because of her pregnancy and by the time the foal is weaned you will have invested more than he is worth. Getting $1000.00 each for Lizzie and her weaned foal is totally unrealistic


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I think Textan needs to go into counseling and life advice!!

I will add though that "owning several" can mean pets in general as well as horses. I know Ebony has many many many animals and I myself have many as well. You need to be practical, and I do try to run my sheep specifically as a business though they are ultimately pets, I retire my ewes to pet homes, maybe when I win the lottery I can afford to retire them on my property but I can't so I make sure they find good homes-somewhere else.

I get that you don't want to abort the foal but it sounds highly likely it will be necessary..


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

Yogiwick said:


> I think Textan needs to go into counseling and life advice!!
> 
> I will add though that "owning several" can mean pets in general as well as horses. I know Ebony has many many many animals and I myself have many as well. You need to be practical, and I do try to run my sheep specifically as a business though they are ultimately pets, I retire my ewes to pet homes, maybe when I win the lottery I can afford to retire them on my property but I can't so I make sure they find good homes-somewhere else.
> 
> I get that you don't want to abort the foal but it sounds highly likely it will be necessary..


 Thank you Yogiwick for your very kind compliment. I will just say that I have made plenty of mistakes in my lifetime but have always tried to learn from them.

If I recall correctly, The seller did offer to have the foal aborted and the idea was rejected. It would have simplified things if he had taken upon himself to do that before offering the mare for sale


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Ebonyisforme said:


> If I got $1000 for each (that is usually what horses go for if you sell them at the right time here) then I would have $2000 plus whatever is left from my emergency fund and could possibly buy a fancy, well trained horse with a ppe. Ideas?


In this economy there is NO horse worth $1,000 save for the best of the best. Fact of life. You will be lucky to get $20 for the lame mare and $200 for the foal. I've given away many expensive horses to good homes (no money involved) purely because they WOULD HAVE a good home. 

You will NEVER recoup your losses from this endeavour.




Ebonyisforme said:


> Ohhhh....everytime I think about selling Lizzie or Wisper I just start hyperventilating and crying. I am panicking. I don't know what to do! You all have very good points. I want to jump and I can't because I don't have a horse and my trainer is on maternity leave. But I can't handle even thinking about losing either one.


Sweetie this comes from years of experience. You will find one or two horses here and there who will steal your heart. They will be the ones in the field dead lame and will die peacefully at some ungodly age. 

You don't know you have one of these horses until you've spent years with them. It takes years for you to realize how good they are for you. I would suggest putting emotions aside. You don't know these mares. You've not had them long enough. Think really hard about what you want to do with horses and what type of riding. If you want to jump can you really afford two pasture ornaments? If you want to be a trainer or an instructor down the line you will face these decisions EVERY DAY. Even today I had to figure out if I was going to sell my 14 year old lesson horse after owning him for five years. 

The answer was simple. He needed a better home than I could give him and I needed the space for another training horse. So he loaded in the trailer and left.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Yup, personally I'm in it because I am very bonded with my horses (for reference my Arab I've had 10 years... you just don't know a horse after what 6 months?). If I couldn't ride them I would still own them. They are pets, that's MY choice. I also know plenty of caring owners who have rehomed a horse because they wanted to ride "x". Which is just fine. You can't have both and you need to be rational with your thought process.

Just so you know out of three perfectly sound nothing wrong with them and semi-fancy horses one was $700 (or 8?) and the other two were FREE. In fact my Arab with a world of potential aside from being 13 and not broke was going to be put down so he wouldn't fall into bad hands. As in the vet (luckily my vet!) literally came out with the meds and looked at him and said "no there's nothing wrong with this horse". The one I paid money for was 12/13 and dead broke do anything horse.

Even with the market here being better I wouldn't pay $1000 unless it was sound and could do something AND was a nice horse with something going for it.


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

Any update?


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

I'd say start doing this sooner rather then later. Get Lizzie comfortable, or as good as she can get, and put her up as "free to good home" with full disclosure and pregnancy and soundness issues. If she sells before the baby, good. If she doesn't at least your plan was to keep her until she foals.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## karliejaye (Nov 19, 2011)

Xrays and blocks today, right? I am very interested in the vet's conclusion with more tests.


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

karliejaye said:


> Xrays and blocks today, right? I am very interested in the vet's conclusion with more tests.


I am in the same boat


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

I think we all are anxious to hear the outcome and hear what the next plan will be.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

UGH!! Due to weather, we weren't able to make it to our appointment today. So, the 15th is our new appointment.  It was pouring and lightning. Lizzie was scared to get in the trailer on a perfectly sunny day, much less with rain pounding on it, thunder, etc.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Around here vets always come to us . Such a pain, but at least not a super long wait. Better than trailering in a thunderstorm.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Is Lizzie still lame?


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

She is not lame anymore but our vet does it in their office unless it is an emergency.


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

Ebonyisforme said:


> She is not lame anymore but our vet does it in their office unless it is an emergency.


 It still would be good to know what caused her lameness although that may be a bit more difficult now. She still may have a condition that was aggravated somehow by shipping or her feet being suddenly corrected. I would inform the vet of her improvement but follow through with getting to the bottom of this


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Yes, we are. Going to the vet Wednesday


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## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

I'll be very interested in the outcome of the vet visit too.

I'm also in the same boat with everyone else. If you want to jump, you should really work on selling both Lizzie and Wisper. I know it's a tough choice, but it isn't one worth hyperventilating about. I'd be sick to my stomach, and sad for days if I sold my mare. But I've had her since she was a yearling, I've done every drop of her training, and I trust her to cart my super green husband around and let the kids ride her on the leadline. She's 5 now. If it came down to it, I could sell her very easily. She's slowly getting consistent under saddle, and has had numerous wins in shows including beating a Canadian Sport Horse Nationals winner in Sport Horse Under Saddle an a A rated show. I've worked hard to make her something marketable in the event we had to sell. Do I have plans to? Nope, my husband and I both plan to retire her. Even if she went dead lame tomorrow we have the finances to keep her as a pasture pet. This is also why we only have one horse right now. We joke we have a zoo, but at two dogs, a barn cat, one horse and two guinea pigs, we are normal from the sounds of this thread. Just for shots for the two dogs and 6 months of heartworm medicine for each dog was over $400. Izzie's was I think $150 for her shots, coggins, and health cert. Not including board, chiropractor (yay young horse in a sloped, clay based field with all this rain...) and showing.

Jumping is HARD on a horse. You really need to step back, look at the two you have, and realize neither will ever fit what you want. I'd get out before there is more money involved, save up a good chunk of change, find a nice horse already started over jumps, and invest in a PPE BEFORE bringing home a new horse. It'll save all this stress and decision making. Even random lameness is not a good sign for a horse you wanted to jump with.


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

Tazzie said:


> I'll be very interested in the outcome of the vet visit too.
> 
> I'm also in the same boat with everyone else. If you want to jump, you should really work on selling both Lizzie and Wisper. I know it's a tough choice, but it isn't one worth hyperventilating about. I'd be sick to my stomach, and sad for days if I sold my mare. But I've had her since she was a yearling, I've done every drop of her training, and I trust her to cart my super green husband around and let the kids ride her on the leadline. She's 5 now. If it came down to it, I could sell her very easily. She's slowly getting consistent under saddle, and has had numerous wins in shows including beating a Canadian Sport Horse Nationals winner in Sport Horse Under Saddle an a A rated show. I've worked hard to make her something marketable in the event we had to sell. Do I have plans to? Nope, my husband and I both plan to retire her. Even if she went dead lame tomorrow we have the finances to keep her as a pasture pet. This is also why we only have one horse right now. We joke we have a zoo, but at two dogs, a barn cat, one horse and two guinea pigs, we are normal from the sounds of this thread. Just for shots for the two dogs and 6 months of heartworm medicine for each dog was over $400. Izzie's was I think $150 for her shots, coggins, and health cert. Not including board, chiropractor (yay young horse in a sloped, clay based field with all this rain...) and showing.
> 
> Jumping is HARD on a horse. You really need to step back, look at the two you have, and realize neither will ever fit what you want. I'd get out before there is more money involved, save up a good chunk of change, find a nice horse already started over jumps, and invest in a PPE BEFORE bringing home a new horse. It'll save all this stress and decision making. Even random lameness is not a good sign for a horse you wanted to jump with.


Amen..


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

GOOD NEWS!!! Xrays show that it is NOT arthritis!    He said that she has a really long toe, even though it doesn't look like it, her feet should be smaller. She needs a shorter breakover point. He also said that she is tender soled and needs shoes on at all times. But...no arthritis and after getting a shorter trim and shoes she will be sound to jump!  So...opinions. Shoes or boots? I am leaning toward boots since I only have to buy them once...but I will do whatever would be better for her.


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

Ebonyisforme said:


> GOOD NEWS!!! Xrays show that it is NOT arthritis!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Okay well before you get ahead of yourself what are you doing about this foal? What are the vets recommendations ?


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Vet recommends shots at 5, 7, and 9 months and other than that, feed her lots and exercise her. I am going to try to sell the foal when it is weaned. We don't want another horse.


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## karliejaye (Nov 19, 2011)

I am very happy that it isn't arthritis. Sounds like keeping her sound with her hoof issue may be a fair amount of maintenance, though. For consideration on shoes vs boots, I would get a few farrier's and barefoot trimmer's opinions on the matter. If you want to jump, I am not too sure boots are legal in all organizations and I personally wouldn't want to jump in boots.
Either way, that is down the road, AFTER baby is weaned. For now I would just work on flat work/dressage fundamentals with her.


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## Red Gate Farm (Aug 28, 2011)

Ebonyisforme said:


> GOOD NEWS!!! Xrays show that it is NOT arthritis!    He said that she has a really long toe, even though it doesn't look like it, her feet should be smaller. She needs a shorter breakover point. He also said that she is tender soled and needs shoes on at all times. But...no arthritis and after getting a shorter trim and shoes she will be sound to jump!  So...opinions. Shoes or boots? I am leaning toward boots since _*I only have to buy them once*_...but I will do whatever would be better for her.


You do have to replace the boots eventually :wink:


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

If you want something that you can reuse a bit get something like the ground controle shoes. Its protects the sole and it adds cushin and for jumping you are going to want as much cushin as you can get. Boots can be a pain in the butt and you cannot leave them on for longer than a ride. Hooves sweat and the boots will hold that in. And hooves sitting in wet boots is a lot of trubble.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Go with the boots, and then you can actually get her sole built up, instead of making the hoof weaker. 

I had really good results with a magnesium salt block for my thin soled horses. 
They are grey colored, not the red mineral block. 

If you have access to a concrete or asphalt road, walk her on it for a couple of miles. I did this without boots, since my mare could walk on the grass down to the road. Worked like a charm.....be prepared to have more frequent farrier appointments, because it is going to be imperative that you keep those toes pulled back, and the flare controlled.

So GLAD there is no arthritis!!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Ebonyisforme said:


> GOOD NEWS!!! Xrays show that it is NOT arthritis!    He said that she has a really long toe, even though it doesn't look like it, her feet should be smaller. She needs a shorter breakover point. He also said that she is tender soled and needs shoes on at all times. But...no arthritis and after getting a shorter trim and shoes she will be sound to jump!  So...opinions. Shoes or boots? *I am leaning toward boots since I only have to buy them once*...but I will do whatever would be better for her.


Honestly still skeptical, but re the bold. Not true, they will wear out and as her foot changes you may need new ones.

Boots aren't made for 24/7 use, especially long term so that would be a deciding factor for me.


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

Yogiwick said:


> Ebonyisforme said:
> 
> 
> > GOOD NEWS!!! Xrays show that it is NOT arthritis!
> ...


I feel the same.


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## tinaev (Dec 2, 2012)

Excellent news! I'm so happy for you and Lizzie!

I love hoof boots but they really shouldn't be left on at all times. I also would not feel safe jumping in them personally. It sounds like in this circumstance shoes would be more practical but definitely get a good farrier's opinion.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Okay, great! I will call the farrier, have her trimmed and talk about shoes vs. boots


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