# Possible Foal Color



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

So your mare is a smokey black that has been tested? and the stud is a brown (seal brown genetically is just brown). Do you know any further testing such as homozygousity for the genes and such?

Basically black is dominant so it MAY be that both horses have a recessive red gene and the foal gets 2 copies and is chestnut based.

Otherwise the foal will be black based and may or may not get brown from dad.

Now that we know what colors we get we remember the cream gene and the foal has a 50% chance of getting that. So the colors end up being:

Black, brown, chestnut, smokey black, smokey brown (brownskin), and palomino.

With chestnut and palomino being unlikely.

I don't know if "seal browns" tend to throw "seal browns" genetically as opposed to "regular browns" the shading genetics are not as well understood.


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## HorseLadyShayla (Jun 28, 2015)

Stud hasn't been tested as of yet, but the mare is heterozygous for the cream gene.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Yup got that part . Just curious about the homozygousity of the black (for both of them). No problems if they haven't been tested, it just means how likely some of the colors are, but what I put would be all options. If one or both are homozygous black then you can rule out the chestnut/palomino. If the stud is homozygous brown then you can rule out black/smokey black, etc.


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## HorseLadyShayla (Jun 28, 2015)

Yogiwick said:


> Yup got that part . Just curious about the homozygousity of the black (for both of them). No problems if they haven't been tested, it just means how likely some of the colors are, but what I put would be all options. If one or both are homozygous black then you can rule out the chestnut/palomino. If the stud is homozygous brown then you can rule out black/smokey black, etc.


Sorry I thought you were asking if she was homozygous or not for the cream gene. We haven't had her tested for agouti yet but I can tell you that one of her last foal was a palomino by a different stud.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

No reason to test her for agouti as she is not bay by the sound of it. You would want to test her for black (E) BUT since she has foaled a palomino I can already tell you she is E/e as palomino (chestnut) is (e/e) and would need one of those from mom.

SO mom is heterozygous black and cream (E/e Cr/cr). Do you know if THIS stud has had any red/chestnut based offspring? Knowing mom is heterozygous black just means that chestnut is still a possibility unless dad is NOT.

Hope that wasn't too complicated!


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

To add to Yogiwick...

The mare is Ee aa Crcr, meaning she has 1 black gene, 1 red gene, no agouti (otherwise she would be a buckskin not a smokey black) and 1 cream gene. 

If the stallion she was bred to has any red based foals (chestnut/sorrel/palomino/red dun/red roan/etc), then the stallion is also heterozygous black and you would have a 1 in 4 chance of a red based foal (chestnut/sorrel and a 50% chance that cream would be passed to create palomino). If the stallion has any black foals, he is heterozygous agouti which means that there is a 50% chance for agouti to be passed, but agouti only acts on black based horses so the chance of black/smokey black vs brown/brownskin is a coin toss if the black gene is passed by at least one of the parents.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HorseLadyShayla (Jun 28, 2015)

Thanks for the explanations on those points, it was very helpful! I'm one if those who has always said as long as it's a good horse the color doesn't matter, but my daughter is excited about this baby and wanted to find out about the colors.

So far this stud has thrown a black and white paint after breeding a palomino paint mare and brown with another brown. He's young and hasn't been used much till now.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Hey baby colors are always exciting 

So we can't say for sure on the stud's hypothetical red gene, but if the black pinto was a true black then we know he is heterozygous for agouti, meaning you could very well end up with black/smokey black as opposed to just the brown shades.

(Thanks SunnyD!)


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

HorseLadyShayla said:


> Thanks for the explanations on those points, it was very helpful! I'm one if those who has always said as long as it's a good horse the color doesn't matter, but my daughter is excited about this baby and wanted to find out about the colors.
> 
> So far this stud has thrown a black and white paint after breeding a palomino paint mare and brown with another brown. He's young and hasn't been used much till now.


Do you know the colors of the stallion's sire and dam? It is also possible to figure out if he has a recessive red if one of his parents is chestnut/chestnut based. If both of his parents are black based, it would require testing or producing a red based foal to determine if he is homozygous black or heterozygous black :wink:


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## Regula (Jan 23, 2012)

Dam: Ee aa Crcr
Stud: E? Aa crcr

If the stud is Ee:
12.5% chance for Black
12.5% Chance for smokey black
25% chance for bay/brown
25% chance for buckskin/brownskin
12.5% chance for chestnut
12.5% chance for palomino

If the stud is EE:
25% chance for black
25% chance for smokey black
25% chance for bay/brown
25% chance for buckskin/brownskin
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Regula said:


> Dam: Ee aa Crcr
> Stud: E? Aa crcr
> 
> If the stud is Ee:
> ...


Actually it would only be brown or brownskin if agouti is passed since the stallion has only one agouti and it is a seal brown agouti :wink:


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## lostastirrup (Jan 6, 2015)

Am I the only one who would just like to see pics of beautiful horses?


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