# Best joint supplement?



## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

As far as oral supplements (which can only get you so far) I like CortaFlx.

I would suggest starting on a monthly IM injection of Adequan or Legend or something of the like


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Do you know what is causing her knee problems?

It is hard to recommend anything with out knowing what the supplement is trying to help.


One thing I will say about joint supplements is, a supplement that works great for one might not work great for yours. Finding the right supplement is very much trial and error.


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## Streakin (Jan 8, 2011)

I would do a monthly or every other month injection of polyglycan IV.

As for oral supplements, Actiflex 4000 with added MSM
or Matrix 5 HA.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Oral glucosamines and hylarounic acid cannot be absorbed into the body through the digestive tract. You might as well grind up money and put it in her feed.
MSM may help.

Your best bet is to try a round of Adequan (an IM injection every 4 days for 7 times) to improve the cartilage and legend every month or two to keep her joint fluid viscous.

Good luck!


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## newhorsemom (Jun 20, 2008)

I'm not sure I would completely agree that oral glucosamine cannot be absorbed. I read this summary on a long-term study (published, but I haven't read the actual published version) that combines injections with oral supplements and it made sense to me. It basically suggested that the oral supplements were effective in reducing the need for injections over time. Most studies in the past have been done over a 6-week period and this study was done over an 8-year period with positive results in the first 6-8 months of oral supplement intake. It makes me wonder how effective oral supplements are on their own over longer period of time. Food for thought.

http://www.animavet.com/Glucosamine.pdf


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Newhorse, thank you for posting that. Interesting.


I know oral supplement (Cosequin) made a huge difference in my dog for many years.


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## Streakin (Jan 8, 2011)

newhorsemom said:


> I'm not sure I would completely agree that oral glucosamine cannot be absorbed. I read this summary on a long-term study (published, but I haven't read the actual published version) that combines injections with oral supplements and it made sense to me. It basically suggested that the oral supplements were effective in reducing the need for injections over time. Most studies in the past have been done over a 6-week period and this study was done over an 8-year period with positive results in the first 6-8 months of oral supplement intake. It makes me wonder how effective oral supplements are on their own over longer period of time. Food for thought.
> 
> http://www.animavet.com/Glucosamine.pdf


 Interesting point!
Ill have to read it.

Although, if you think about it, what could be more effective than something absorbed directly vs. something that has to be digested?

For instance, when you have a cold, you can either get a shot or have a perscription for pills. Which works quicker? The shot 
Both are effective, but anything that has to go through the entire symstem will take longer


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## OneFastHorse (Jan 13, 2011)

Number one, get xrays and/or radiographs. If my horse has a problem, I want to be as sure as possible on the cause before I start pumping anuthing into them. 

I agree with Adequan or Legand, along with acti-flex 4000 + MSM if she is arthritic.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

As for injection vs oral-yeah, sure injections are absorbed more efficiently, and you can be sure the horse (or whatever) is getting the dose. However-please do not lose sight of the fact that ANY injection is not without risk/long term effect just by virtue of it being an injection. I will always opt for the safest (oral) route for myself or my animals, as long as it works. I prefer to save invasive (injectables) routes for when they are actually necessary. JMO.:wink:


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## OneFastHorse (Jan 13, 2011)

I know what the generic name is.... :?


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## tpup (Oct 14, 2010)

Absolutely LOVE Platinum Performance CJ and can attest to it's performance. Has good amounts of all the joint supps in it. Was recommended by top lameness vets in our area, and it is the only supplement they recommend (and they are not afilliated nor do they get anything). My older, arthritic horse is a world better on it. He has arthritic hocks. We ran out once for almost a week and it was more than noticeable. He was a mess. Put him back on it and had my happy, flexible horse again. It also has the "base" Platinum Performance included in it which is great for hooves, coat, etc. so you only need ONE supplement. It's pricey but worth every penny IMO.


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## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

I personally love Nutramax Cosequin ASU. I have my gelding on it. It's really expensive, I pay 159.95$ for the bucket. 

Nutramax Cosequin ASU - Statelinetack.com

there's the link to anyone who wants to take a look at it.
I agree with some of the posters though. You wanna get xrays before you put a horse on anything to make sure what's really wrong.


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## SissyGoBob (Oct 17, 2010)

i was about to make another thread, but since this is here, I am about to bring a 22 year old mare from my dads to my house and i need to put her on a joint plan. I have has X-rays done of her knees and hocks and all that and there appears to be nothing wrong, I just want a joint plan for prevention. This mare is my absolute EVERYTHING. I love my baby, but this mare trumps every other horse I have ever owned. So, so far I have gotten Adequan may be good. I had an olg gelding (my other best horse in the world) and he does really good on it. 

any suggestions?


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## Streakin (Jan 8, 2011)

beauforever23 said:


> I personally love Nutramax Cosequin ASU. I have my gelding on it. It's really expensive, I pay 159.95$ for the bucket.
> 
> Nutramax Cosequin ASU - Statelinetack.com
> 
> ...


 Actually, aside from the high amount of GL...Im not a fan...and personally I think youre over paying.

The best Ive found so far (as I stated on the previous page) is Actiflex 4000 with added MSM, or Matrix 5 HA. All the key ingedients, at a high dosage.


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## BarrelRacer86 (Jul 6, 2010)

tpup said:


> Absolutely LOVE Platinum Performance CJ and can attest to it's performance. Has good amounts of all the joint supps in it. Was recommended by top lameness vets in our area, and it is the only supplement they recommend (and they are not afilliated nor do they get anything). My older, arthritic horse is a world better on it. He has arthritic hocks. We ran out once for almost a week and it was more than noticeable. He was a mess. Put him back on it and had my happy, flexible horse again. It also has the "base" Platinum Performance included in it which is great for hooves, coat, etc. so you only need ONE supplement. It's pricey but worth every penny IMO.


How much Is it and where do I find It? 
And I'm sure she Is arithtic in the knees. Her knee joints are larger than most horses, she does better in warm weather than cold, and she's never had a knee injury.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OneFastHorse (Jan 13, 2011)

tpup said:


> Absolutely LOVE Platinum Performance CJ and can attest to it's performance. Has good amounts of all the joint supps in it. Was recommended by top lameness vets in our area, and it is the only supplement they recommend (and they are not afilliated nor do they get anything). My older, arthritic horse is a world better on it. He has arthritic hocks. We ran out once for almost a week and it was more than noticeable. He was a mess. Put him back on it and had my happy, flexible horse again. It also has the "base" Platinum Performance included in it which is great for hooves, coat, etc. so you only need ONE supplement. It's pricey but worth every penny IMO.


The Plat Perf says to feed 78g twice a day. That is close to 5 ounces. 

Acti-flex says to feed 1 ounce per day. Acti-flex has these levels per ounce:

Glucosamine Sulfate8,000 mg.
.Chondroitin Sulfate 4,000 mg.
.Type II Collagen3,000 mg..
MSM3,000 mg.
Ester C (Ascorbic Acid)1,000 mg..
Perna Canaliculus1,000 mg..
Yucca150 mg..
Hyaluronic Acid (HA)125 mg..
Bioperine100 mg.

The plat cj has these levels per 5.5 ounces:
Glucosamine Sulfate (Min)9350mgMethylsulfonylmethane (OptiMSM™) (Min)8500mgAvocado/Soy Unsaponifiables (Min)2000mgBoswellia serrata Extract (Min)1660mgCetyl Myristoleate (Min)300mgHyaluronic Acid (Min) 100mg


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## OneFastHorse (Jan 13, 2011)

Sorry, it took me too long to do the math and I couldnt edit my above post..

Here is what I cam up with:



tpup said:


> Absolutely LOVE Platinum Performance CJ and can attest to it's performance. Has good amounts of all the joint supps in it. Was recommended by top lameness vets in our area, and it is the only supplement they recommend (and they are not afilliated nor do they get anything). My older, arthritic horse is a world better on it. He has arthritic hocks. We ran out once for almost a week and it was more than noticeable. He was a mess. Put him back on it and had my happy, flexible horse again. It also has the "base" Platinum Performance included in it which is great for hooves, coat, etc. so you only need ONE supplement. It's pricey but worth every penny IMO.


The Plat Perf says to feed 78g twice a day. That is close to 5 ounces. 

Acti-flex says to feed 1 ounce per day. Acti-flex has these levels per ounce:

Glucosamine Sulfate8,000 mg.
.Chondroitin Sulfate 4,000 mg.
.Type II Collagen3,000 mg..
MSM3,000 mg.
Ester C (Ascorbic Acid)1,000 mg..
Perna Canaliculus1,000 mg..
Yucca150 mg..
Hyaluronic Acid (HA)125 mg..
Bioperine100 mg.



The plat cj has these levels per 5.5 ounces:
Glucosamine Sulfate (Min)9350mg
Methylsulfonylmethane (OptiMSM™) (Min)8500mg
Avocado/Soy Unsaponifiables (Min)2000mg
Boswellia serrata Extract (Min)1660mg
Cetyl Myristoleate (Min)300mg
Hyaluronic Acid (Min) 100mg

The plat is $135 per 10lbs and you feed it at 5.5ounces per horse per day. There are 160 ounces in 10lbs. That is $.84/ounce. That comes to $4.20 per day to feed it. 

The Acti-flex is $85 per gallon and if you order is from Big Dees you get a free quart if you order a gallon. There are 128.5 ounces in a gallon + 32 ounces in the quart. That = 160.5 ounces total for $85. that is $.53/ounce to feed and costs you $.53 per day per horse to feed. 

The results: Actu-flex has higher amounts and is quite a bit cheaper. =) Tho, dont forget to add a half scoop of msm to your acti-flex. MSM is the ONLY ingrediant that acti-flex ia a bit lacking on.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

BarrelRacer86 said:


> I have a mare with large knee joints, her knees hurt her. She's 10 Years old and I'm hoping to find a supplement to put her on to make her more comfortable and able to still perfrom. I don't want her soured because she's in pain. I've thought of MSM but I want the best I can find, just figured id ask people who've had some personal experience with different supplements. This has just been a recent problem too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


With your situation, I would seriously discuss joint injections with your vet. A simple oral supplement is often not enough for horses in real pain.

I have a young 6yr old mare with moderate ring bone and side bone in one foot. I have her on *Absorbine Flex + Max* and *SmartTLC Pellets*. It's helped her some, but she's still lame at the trot. These two were the best combination for her to manage her pain and help lubricate her joints. They took her from really lame to just moderately lame, so it helped, but not enough. We're going to change her shoes and start her on joint injections. 

For my horses with just slight joint stiffness, I have had great luck with both Corta-Flx and Acti-Flex 4000. I add additional MSM with both for horses with more than just mild stiffness though. It seems to help both products work a bit better. MSM does not seem to help on its own IME.

The two joint supplements above, Flex Max and SmartTLC cost $2.68 a day to feed. I tried her on just the Acti-Flex or Corta-Flx with added MSM, but it did absolutely NOTHING to alleviate her pain and stiffness, and I gave it a good 45 days to see if it would help.


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## OneFastHorse (Jan 13, 2011)

I agree with Luv... once they are past a certain point, oral supplememts will only do so much. I agree that adequan/legend and/or joint injections would probably help this mare A LOT more than an oral supp.


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## BarrelRacer86 (Jul 6, 2010)

When I can get her injected I plan too. Maybe next month
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

SissyGoBob said:


> i was about to make another thread, but since this is here, I am about to bring a 22 year old mare from my dads to my house and i need to put her on a joint plan. I have has X-rays done of her knees and hocks and all that and there appears to be nothing wrong, I just want a joint plan for prevention. This mare is my absolute EVERYTHING. I love my baby, but this mare trumps every other horse I have ever owned. So, so far I have gotten Adequan may be good. I had an olg gelding (my other best horse in the world) and he does really good on it.
> 
> any suggestions?


Corta-Flx would be a great preventative. It's pretty cheap and you can get a free Qt when you buy a gallon from either ValleyVet or Big D's right now. It's cheaper than Acti-Flex from both places and seems to work better IMO.


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## Streakin (Jan 8, 2011)

Ive used Actiflex and Corta-Flx...Ive had MUCH better results with Actiflex.

OP-as others have said...check into injections.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I personally, am not a big fan of Oral Suppliments - I just don't know the consistancy and the proof that they actually work.

Many studdies have been done, and many are still being done on Oral Joint Suppliments, that show no structural proof of them being what they are.

The issue is, is that Oral Suppliments fall under the Equine Nutrition Category, where rules, regulations and testing arent' as strict as they should be. So when Comanies say that "This ingredient" is in the product, it might not really be there. Or if they say that "This much of this ingredient" is in the product....just might not be correct. 

Another issue with their studdies, shows that not much of the oral joint suppliment even gets to the area where it needs to be doing its "supposed' job. So who knows how much they actually injest. Then who knows how much actually gets past the stomache, and then who knows how much actually gets through the rest of the system, before it even reaches where it's supposed to go.

So, who knows. 

I like Adequan. I really like the IM's - because IM's fall under the Equine Medical Category, where rules, regulations and testings are very strict. So when the company says what it is, it is, and it does, what they say it does.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

I just removed number of posts, which were just arguing over _nothing _without providing any helpful information or advices to the OP. _*Folks, please stay on track and be courteous to each other! *_


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## BarrelRacer86 (Jul 6, 2010)

Thanks kitten val! And very much thanks MIEventer, I was trying to remeber what adequan was called. My mom tried to order that for my older gelding but none of the vets we asked ever did order it for us. Do you have any idea where to get it?
Id like to have her injected above anything else, money just needs to be put together firstbefore I can. So I'm looking for oral supplements until then.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SissyGoBob (Oct 17, 2010)

*Adequan*

Question for all you Adequan IM users (no offense but I don't want opinions on weather or not to use it): How much do you spend on a bottle, shot, or however you buy your Adequan? I'm putting my mare on it and am shopping prices as best I can. I'm curious about what you spend.

Thank you and please don't think I'm being rude, but I saw some "politically correct arguing" and thats not what I'm looking for....


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## qtrhrsecrazy (Aug 2, 2009)

I just wanted to add the reason explained to me why oral GL can not work... The molecular structure is to big to be absorbed into the bloodstream. It just can't get there.

On another note, MSM is just DMSO + Oxygen. It concievably _could_ shoot GL in, but as stated previously on this thread, is pretty useless on its own


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## WhoaNow (Jan 18, 2011)

I feed Hylagen-60 from United Vet Equine, and have fed it to my 29 year old gelding on a daily basis since he was 15 years of age.

*Hylagen-60 (MVP)*

It is the most cost effective oral supplement I have found on the market.
You feed 2 oz per day, and it provides the recommended dosage of 10,000 mgs of glucosmine and 10,000 mgs of MSM.
I can personally attest to the fact that my horse's arthritis is significantly improved on this supplement.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Ok-so for my 21 yr old semi retired guy with arthritic hocks......cortaflex has been working just fine, for the minimal work he does. However, he is occcassionally a little "off". Perhaps if I add the MSM? I have to keep it oral as well as simple, since he is now on a free lease to a therapeutic program. He only does 2-3, 45 min "lessons" per week.


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## qtrhrsecrazy (Aug 2, 2009)

I think MSM is already in Corta-flx... check the label. I do know Corta-flx says they have smaller molecules for absorbtion


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Hmm ok-thanks. Will do.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

Corta-Flx has ingredients that work like MSM, Glucosamine, etc, so it doesn't list exact values.
CORTA-FLX, Inc. - EQUINE CORTA-FLX¨ Solution

So, since it doesn't have any MSM in it, exactly, I add a scoop (10,000 mgs) of MSM for my horses that show more than just mild stiffness and it seems to help.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

BarrelRacer86 said:


> Thanks kitten val! And very much thanks MIEventer, I was trying to remeber what adequan was called. My mom tried to order that for my older gelding but none of the vets we asked ever did order it for us. Do you have any idea where to get it?
> Id like to have her injected above anything else, money just needs to be put together firstbefore I can. So I'm looking for oral supplements until then.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was buying it from my Vet, who would order it for me, and then I'd pay her for the vile. I was paying her $55 for 1 bottle :shock: So I was spending $55 a month, that was getting quite rediculous. I have friends in other parts of the U.S who pay different prices as well, some pay $40something, while others pay close to what I am paying. It all depends on your Vet and their sources. 

I went to SmartPak Equine and I found that they sell a 10 month Vile for $376.?? - which is 10 months worth of injections, at $30something per vile. Much cheaper if you go that route.

So I am currently saving up my pennies, to buy the 10 month vile - that'll save me $ in the long run. 

If you want to get Adequan, you can get it through SmartPak, but your vet has to call the Vet Line, and put in a prescription for you. They will not send it to you, without a prescription - because the product falls under the Equine Medical category. 

With Adequan, it's the best of the best besides Legend - and you do not have to provide an oral suppliment while giving it, because that would be overkill. Besides, again, I'm not so sure, sold, positive that orals are the "sure" thing due to all the studdies showing that orals are not.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

SissyGoBob said:


> Question for all you Adequan IM users (no offense but I don't want opinions on weather or not to use it): How much do you spend on a bottle, shot, or however you buy your Adequan? I'm putting my mare on it and am shopping prices as best I can. I'm curious about what you spend.
> 
> Thank you and please don't think I'm being rude, but I saw some "politically correct arguing" and thats not what I'm looking for....


Read my post above  ^^


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Am going to get some of the MSM. Can't hurt to try it. Thanks.


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## SissyGoBob (Oct 17, 2010)

MIEventer said:


> Read my post above  ^^


 
thank you, I'm really happy you answered lol. That seems about what i was paying. I think I'm with you on saving pennies to get the 10 viles.


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## Streakin (Jan 8, 2011)

You do all realize that an effective joint supplement must have:
*Glucosamine:*
Glucosamine helps keep joints and cartilage lubricated, as well as stimulating the substances
necessary for the formation of joint tissue, called glycosaminoglycans, key structural components in cartilage that line the joints. This is important because as a horse’s body ages or is subjected to punishing riding disciplines, it may not produce a sufficient amount of Glucosamine. This can result in cartilage that loses its ability to act as a shock absorber in the joints. Glucosamine is also needed to produce glycosaminoglycan, a molecule used in the formation and repair of cartilage and other body tissues.. as your horse gets older it natural ability to produce glucosamine slows down.​*Chondroitin Sulfate:*This is considered the "other half" basically. There are studies that show that Chondroitin is poorly absorbed because of its molecular structure through oral administartion. CS is an ingredient in the injectable form of joint care.

*HA or Hyaluronic Acid:* It is a neccessity for my horses to have some sort of HA....Hyaluronic Acid is the major cushioning component in joint cartilage....it absorbs and holds water for joint resilience and cushioning and mobility. Research has shown it to help rebuild joint cartilage, increase joint lubrication, and help relieve inflammation and discomfort. 

*MSM:* Kinda self explanitory...helps fight inflamation etc etc.

I also like a supplement to have some sort of Collagen...but those are the big 3.

I stay away from Devils Claw because long term use can and will cause ulcers.


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## BarrelRacer86 (Jul 6, 2010)

Streakin said:


> You do all realize that an effective joint supplement must have:
> *Glucosamine:*
> Glucosamine helps keep joints and cartilage lubricated, as well as stimulating the substances
> necessary for the formation of joint tissue, called glycosaminoglycans, key structural components in cartilage that line the joints. This is important because as a horse’s body ages or is subjected to punishing riding disciplines, it may not produce a sufficient amount of Glucosamine. This can result in cartilage that loses its ability to act as a shock absorber in the joints. Glucosamine is also needed to produce glycosaminoglycan, a molecule used in the formation and repair of cartilage and other body tissues.. as your horse gets older it natural ability to produce glucosamine slows down.​*Chondroitin Sulfate:*This is considered the "other half" basically. There are studies that show that Chondroitin is poorly absorbed because of its molecular structure through oral administartion. CS is an ingredient in the injectable form of joint care.
> ...


And you do realize everything has already been covered
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OneFastHorse (Jan 13, 2011)

BarrelRacer86 said:


> And you do realize everything has already been covered
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Man you guys are snarky


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## Streakin (Jan 8, 2011)

BarrelRacer86 said:


> And you do realize everything has already been covered
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Snark much? Pretty sure no one has explained what the ingredients do.
Ill never reply to one of your threads again.
Took awhile to type all that out.


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## Streakin (Jan 8, 2011)

OneFastHorse said:


> Man you guys are snarky


And close minded. Ive never encountered a forum such as this.


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## SissyGoBob (Oct 17, 2010)

**Question that has to do with the thread subject**

Can a horse have too much HA? 

I am going to put my mare on Adequan injections but until then I can save up enough mulah I want to give her this supplement called Animal Element. It has a lot of HA in it as well.


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## Streakin (Jan 8, 2011)

SissyGoBob said:


> Can a horse have too much HA?
> 
> I am going to put my mare on Adequan injections but until then I can save up enough mulah I want to give her this supplement called Animal Element. It has a lot of HA in it as well.


 LOL @ title.

How much HA? What other ingredients does it have? Im too lazy to google:shock:


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## SissyGoBob (Oct 17, 2010)

Streakin said:


> LOL @ title.
> 
> How much HA? What other ingredients does it have? Im too lazy to google:shock:


 
Lol yeah the title does look weird....

Ok, so the Animal Element has 120mg HA per day. 

Ingedients (and purpose in a nut shell): 

Zeolite: attracts and traps toxins
Organic Kelp: minerals
Chlorella: protien, vitamins, minerals
Organic Turmeric: antioxidant
MSM: joint and detox
Organic Hawthorn: circulation
Red Raspberry: hormonal support for mares
HA: joints

Thank you!!


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Streakin said:


> You do all realize that an effective joint supplement must have:
> *Glucosamine:*
> Glucosamine helps keep joints and cartilage lubricated, as well as stimulating the substances
> necessary for the formation of joint tissue, called glycosaminoglycans, key structural components in cartilage that line the joints. This is important because as a horse’s body ages or is subjected to punishing riding disciplines, it may not produce a sufficient amount of Glucosamine. This can result in cartilage that loses its ability to act as a shock absorber in the joints. Glucosamine is also needed to produce glycosaminoglycan, a molecule used in the formation and repair of cartilage and other body tissues.. as your horse gets older it natural ability to produce glucosamine slows down.​*Chondroitin Sulfate:*This is considered the "other half" basically. There are studies that show that Chondroitin is poorly absorbed because of its molecular structure through oral administartion. CS is an ingredient in the injectable form of joint care.
> ...


You have to understand, that there has to be so much of a dose, for those ingredients to be effective. A horse must have a minimal of 10,000mg of MSM for it to be effective. A horse has to have so much of glucosamine for it to be effective...

And, back to what I said before - how do you know that those products are even in the oral suppliment? How do you know those oral joint suppliments are even doing what the companies claim that they do? Too many studdies show otherwise.


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## qtrhrsecrazy (Aug 2, 2009)

I agree with you on that. Say even everything is present, with long term use it can't be good on stomachs or the entire digestion tract... Especially the MSM. Worse problems could be created at some point
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I do, sincerely believe that IM's are the way to go. They are the sure thing, they are what they claim they are and they do what they say they do. 

Every Vet I talk to, stress that IM's are the best of the best. Adequan, Legend, Polyglycam.....


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## WhoaNow (Jan 18, 2011)

franknbeans said:


> As for injection vs oral-yeah, sure injections are absorbed more efficiently, and you can be sure the horse (or whatever) is getting the dose.
> *
> However-please do not lose sight of the fact that ANY injection is not without risk/long term effect just by virtue of it being an injection. *
> 
> ...


I agree 100% with this poster.
Many variables come into play when determining the best course of treatment 
(ie. owner finances, age of the horse, use of the horse, turn out vs stalled, etc.).

Injections are quite costly, and may or may *not* work.

With my older trail riding gelding, 
who has been on an oral supplement since he was 15 years of age (which I call 'preventative maintenace'), 
my vet and I decided to go with a daily gram of bute vs an injection.
Of course there are risks, but the costs were too prohibitive.
For the amount I would have spent doing the IM injections, 
I could/can/will buy a newer, younger horse.
Especially in today's economy.

It's all about keeping them comfortable for as long as possible.
And going with something with the least risks/complications over the 'long haul'.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

WhoaNow said:


> Many variables come into play when determining the best course of treatment.


TOTALLY agree!

I know oral has worked well for my dog for many years (we have now added injectable).

Oral seems to be helping my old man quite a bit. Do I have scientific proof that it is working? No. Does it appear to be working and does my horse look more comfortable? Yes.


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## Streakin (Jan 8, 2011)

MIEventer said:


> You have to understand, that there has to be so much of a dose, for those ingredients to be effective. A horse must have a minimal of 10,000mg of MSM for it to be effective. A horse has to have so much of glucosamine for it to be effective...
> 
> And, back to what I said before - how do you know that those products are even in the oral suppliment? How do you know those oral joint suppliments are even doing what the companies claim that they do? Too many studdies show otherwise.


 I know, and I agree with you 

I was just giving an important ingredient list.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Agreeing with MIE, again. Just re stating that although oral supplements may appear to work, their effectiveness is far less than the injectables.

What my vet has actually started recommending to improve cartilage health (because as MI said, the horse needs a certain concentration of these molecules in their system to really work effectively) instead of once monthly injections is to do the course of 7 5cc injections, one every 4 days (as the box directs). Once or twice a year should be good for a "normal" horse. Olympic level dressage horses are getting Adequan every second day in some cases to maintain cartilage health.

As far as Legend (the brand name for injectable HA), as long as the horse does not have dysfunction with their joint fluid (a vet can tell you if the fluid is good through palpation and simple flexion tests) you don't really need to be injecting this. The first line of defense is making sure you are maintaining the structures of the joint (bone, cartilage, tendons, ligaments, muscles) by using Adequan and in some cases, MSM. If these structures have begun to deteriorate and the joint fluid is losing viscosity, then using Legend becomes warranted. My horse (under intense showing/training) hasn't needed Legend since he was taken off the once monthly injections almost a year ago. So there's money in my pocket to spend on more Adequan 

In my experience, oral MSM is all that really works. Feeding JUST the glucosamine, HA or PSGAGs seems to have little to no effect. Theories suggest that this is because these molecules are simply too large to be digested in any appreciable quantity.

As far as costs, I buy Adequan from my vet for $800 a course (7 injections). So if I'm doing 3 courses a year (administering the Adequan myself), it is comparable to the $200/month I spent before on once a month, vet administered Legend and Adequan. 

As far as for arthritic horses (or any other horse you are planning a prevention program for) one really must find out what is going on and then work out an entire management program for the horse. You can't simply feed oral glucosamine and expect the horse to be sound without maybe increasing turnout, managing inflamation and decreasing workload/conditioning the horse, etc..


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## BarrelRacer86 (Jul 6, 2010)

Streakin said:


> Snark much? Pretty sure no one has explained what the ingredients do.
> Ill never reply to one of your threads again.
> Took awhile to type all that out.


Sorry, im just tired of reading the same posts and arguments. It gets old, sorry for being snarky


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## Streakin (Jan 8, 2011)

BarrelRacer86 said:


> Sorry, im just tired of reading the same posts and arguments. It gets old, sorry for being snarky


 I understand BUT my post wasnt agumentative. I was tying to provide info 

Were good.

Anabel-fabulous post!


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