# DOT cracking down on horse trailers.



## Palomine

Trainer friend of mine on way to Tom Powers wrote this:

Horse people listen up. Just going to share my misfortune from traveling to tom powers. They are starting to really crack down on DOT #'s and CDL's. I was driving through Iowa and got pulled over by the county sheriff. He pulled me over to check my paperwork (coggins/healthpaper). I had all my paperwork in order. He then asked for my DOT number on my truck. I said I didn't need one, I was private. He proceeded to read me all the rules and regulations and give me NINE tickets. Kept me on the side of the road with horses for two hours and said that I had to get DOT numbers for my truck and trailer and a CDL. I told him I was not commercial. Doesn't matter he said. Your truck and trailer combo is rated for just over 26,000 lbs. I have been checking into fighting this, but it is looking like there is no way out of it. If anyone has had this happen and knows a rule to save me from having to get a CDL, I would really appreciate it. If not, watch yourself. By the way, my truck is a one ton dually and I have a six horse gooseneck trailer with midtack. Not that big of a rig. Just thought I would share. Used with permission.



This is easy money for states, and the feds.

You have to have a Class A CDL if over 26,000. You also have to have a DOT number on power unit, medical card, log books, and follow HOS and go through weigh stations.

It remains to be seen if they are going to do fuel purchase requirements yet? But if they can get money from it, I look for them to do so.

And going through weigh stations is perfect way for them to shut you down if you are not legal.

One woman was shut down in MN on way to vet with her own horses, but her rig was over 26,000. They kept her there, while she tried to no avail to find driver with CDL, when she couldn't, she was turned around, missing her vet appointment, and wasting time sitting with a loaded trailer.

While you may think you can try to fight this? The reality is you are not going to be able to, and you run the risk of them impounding your horses and rig if you get too wound up with them.

And they are checking Coggins and health papers too.

According to FMCSA, if you are 26,000+, and even haul a friend to trail ride and they give you gas money? You are considered 'For Hire' and fall under this. If you show even for ribbon? You are a commercial driver, even if it is your own horses.

And using the RV excuse if you have LQ will not work if you are hauling customer horses, or competing yourself.

This link also gives more information. http://gohorseshow.com/article.cfm?articleID=34603


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## Palomine

This is update from friend. Used with permission.

Anybody following my CDL issue, here is what I have learned over the last couple days. Talked to Iowa DOT officer, MN DOT, and County license people, and read most of the CDL manual. Basically the first rule of the manual states it pretty plane and clear. You need a CDL if the greater of the two is over 26,000 lbs. Combo actual weight or GVWR of the combo. So even if you actually weigh 20,000, but your GVWR is 28,000. You need one. This will apply to all dually one ton trucks pulling a four horse trailer or bigger. They also say if you are going to a horse show and winning money or selling your horse, or making money or remuneration in any way while on the trip, that is commerse. We are all screwed!!!!!! 

Oh ya, I called to schedule my writing exam, and asked about the road test. There is a waiting list at all the local test sites until the end of September. You can't schedule your driving test until you have passed your written test and actually have your permit. Then you can schedule a driving test, so by that time it will be October. Can't drive a Commercial vehicle on your permit unless you have a CDL driver along with you. This is going to make getting to the NSBA and Reichert near impossible. Then you have to get a medical exam, log book, only travel so many hours at one time, and I am still checking into the fuel issue. Was told you have to record and report how many miles you travel in a state and how much fuel you use in that state and report it quarterly.


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## busysmurf

I'm looking into it for WI. I do know that delivery drivers for UPS & FedEx are NOT required to log or have a CDL. Not sure exactly what the exception was for that.

I will have to get ahold of my DOT contacts and find out

**starts emailing***


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## dbarabians

That is just crazy and totally un necessary. I hual cattle to sales with a 2 ton truck and a 22 foot trailer fully loaded and have never been stopped or asked for any CDL. Maybe because I live in Texas . The traffic cops would be too bus y pulling over stock trailers to catch people speeding.
Shalom


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## Palomine

Woman from TX, hauling hay from her farm down there to her farm in KS got stopped in KS, impounded until her daughter in TX came to KS with the paperwork showing she had farms in both states, and was hauling her stuff to her other farm.

They would not let it be faxed, e-mailed...would not work with her at all.


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## Palomine

dbarabians said:


> That is just crazy and totally un necessary. I hual cattle to sales with a 2 ton truck and a 22 foot trailer fully loaded and have never been stopped or asked for any CDL. Maybe because I live in Texas . The traffic cops would be too bus y pulling over stock trailers to catch people speeding.
> Shalom


What is GVW, are you hauling YOUR cattle, and are you on farm tags? That may be the way you won't have to have one, but if you haul anyone else's cows, there you go.

Basically?

I see it as a way to get more money, rather than making roads safe. BS.

And the HOS are a crock.


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## Cacowgirl

Oh, wow. Now those that can afford the bigger rigs are getting penalized. Just makes one want to throw up their hands & wander-What next?


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## QtrBel

D**n penny pinching, make the poor individual pay, gov't officials.... My vision means I'll never see a CDL and DH will have to drive everywhere we go. He's a home bound hermit....:-twisted::twisted:


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## busysmurf

Allrighty. I just got off the phone with the Federal Motor Carriers (the ones that make the rules). This is what was said.
1. Even if you drive a 4-horse gooseneck & 1-ton truck (exceeds GVW) you DO NOT need a CDL or DOT # if you are NOT making money. So if it is STRICTLY for private use, nothing is needed. Even across state lines

2. the grey area comes in when you are hauling to a show. That depends on the individual that is pulling you over. Trophies & winnings are considered 'for profit' IF you claim them on your taxes, but can also be considered 'for profit' by the individual pulling you over. However, if you are not hauling clients horses or own a farm that is considered a business it is recommended that you contest the citation. IF you own a barn that gives lessons, trains, breeds, or sells horses and reports income for that then YOU MUST follow commercial rules (CDL, DOT #, hrs of service, etc.).


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## LadyDreamer

Would horses you lease be considered yours in this case? It might be that trainers hauling clients to shows might have to fudge the rules like they do with riding as an Amateur and be co-owners or lease the horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## verona1016

Not sure about your state, but in OR the back of a regular non-commercial license clearly states that it allows you to operate a vehicle with a GVWR up to 26,000 lbs. Regardless of your trainer friend's opinion, a 6 horse trailer is a sizeable rig, larger than most private horse owners would ever haul, and it should occur to anyone driving a rig of that size that they may be exceeding the allowances of a regular license.


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## poppy1356

Not new. Last month they had stops going on some of the major freeways in the metro here in MN. Lots of bogus tickets written.

PS: you always say you are going for a trail ride when pulled over.


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## Roadyy

LadyDreamer said:


> Would horses you lease be considered yours in this case? It might be that trainers hauling clients to shows might have to fudge the rules like they do with riding as an Amateur and be co-owners or lease the horse.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Inorder for the trainer to fudge on that, their name would have to be on the paperwork(coggins or the like) for each horse. I would be more inclined to just say we are on the way to a trail ride and if it is a LQ then we are going camping and trail riding for the weekend.


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## Cat

Is this some new law or just something that has been on the books for a while but just now getting enforced?


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## busysmurf

Palomine said:


> This is update from friend. Used with permission.
> 
> Anybody following my CDL issue, here is what I have learned over the last couple days. Talked to Iowa DOT officer, MN DOT, and County license people, and read most of the CDL manual. Basically the first rule of the manual states it pretty plane and clear. You need a CDL if the greater of the two is over 26,000 lbs. Combo actual weight or GVWR of the combo. So even if you actually weigh 20,000, but your GVWR is 28,000. You need one. If you are in commerce (i.e. reporting any earnings) This will apply to all dually one ton trucks pulling a four horse trailer or bigger once again, only if you are profiting. They also say if you are going to a horse show and *winning money or selling your horse, or making money or remuneration in any way while on the trip, that is commerse*. If you are cited for that it was strongly suggested that you contest the citation as long as it's not your business. So if you sold your horse, and that's all you are going to sell for awhile, that can be contested and the citation will probably be overturned. We are all screwed!!!!!!
> 
> Oh ya, I called to schedule my writing exam, and asked about the road test. There is a waiting list at all the local test sites until the end of September. You can't schedule your driving test until you have passed your written test and actually have your permit. Then you can schedule a driving test, so by that time it will be October. Can't drive a Commercial vehicle on your permit unless you have a CDL driver along with you. This is going to make getting to the NSBA and Reichert near impossible This is the grey area & will depend on where you are/who pulled you over. Shows that are there solely 'to make $$ or other prizes' can be considered commerce even if you don't claim them on taxes. You can argue about if they are just for points & ribbons. Basically, a lot depends on how you answer any questions asked. If you are a trainer & have lesson kids in the trailer with you, a breeder taking a stud to a show or foals to a show to sell, or a trainer taking clients horses anywhere for you to ride than yes commerce regs apply. Then you have to get a medical exam, log book, only travel so many hours at one time, and I am still checking into the fuel issue. Was told you have to record and report how many miles you travel in a state and how much fuel you use in that state and report it quarterly That is only for IFTA registered vehicles.


I used this as my example when I called, but said it was my friend :wink: DOT guys answers are in red. (Don't know why I didn't just post it this way in the first place, duh)


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## Roadyy

I would suggest having a copy of the DOT book or parts pertaining to the DOT stickers and CDLs to hopefully help keep the ticket away when they realize you know what is going on.


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## Palomine

poppy1356 said:


> Not new. Last month they had stops going on some of the major freeways in the metro here in MN. Lots of bogus tickets written.
> 
> PS: you always say you are going for a trail ride when pulled over.



Thing is they are looking at health papers...which clearly state where you are going.


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## busysmurf

Palomine said:


> Thing is they are looking at health papers...which clearly state where you are going.


Are you talking driver health cards or the horses? Because those are 2 separate issues


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## Palomine

Roadyy said:


> I would suggest having a copy of the DOT book or parts pertaining to the DOT stickers and CDLs to hopefully help keep the ticket away when they realize you know what is going on.


From having driven an 18 wheeler, and still having CDL as well as spousal unit that drives. Arguing with the DOT especially, or showing them the rules is a good way to end up with more trouble than you want.

And sure don't want to banter back and forth with loaded trailer either.


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## Palomine

busysmurf said:


> Are you talking driver health cards or the horses? Because those are 2 separate issues



Health papers that should be with your Coggins, that vet has filled out.


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## busysmurf

Palomine said:


> From having driven an 18 wheeler, and still having CDL as well as spousal unit that drives. Arguing with the DOT especially, or showing them the rules is a good way to end up with more trouble than you want.
> 
> And sure don't want to banter back and forth with loaded trailer either.


Yeah, when they see the CDL on your DL, your whole "I'm sorry officer, I didn't know" excuse goes screaming right out the window, lol


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## Palomine

busysmurf said:


> I used this as my example when I called, but said it was my friend :wink: DOT guys answers are in red. (Don't know why I didn't just post it this way in the first place, duh)



When I called FMCSA to ask about this, I specifically asked about a friend chipping in on gas to have her horse hauled along...and was told that then put you as 'for hire'.

And again, I know I have had bogus tickets given, and have fought them, if close enough to do that easily.

But if ticket is in MN and you are hauling in to trail ride from south MO, is it going to be worth it to go back and forth to fight it or not?

And THAT is what they are counting on.


Several years ago, there were quite a few stories coming out about people getting parking tickets, who had not even been in the city they were cited in, and in one case, the number written on ticket? Belonged to his antique car, that hadn't been moved off his property in quite a few years.

He called to protest it...and was told to come for court if he wanted to fight it. He lived in western KS, ticket was in KC MO. Not worth it, so he paid it.


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## Palomine

busysmurf said:


> Yeah, when they see the CDL on your DL, your whole "I'm sorry officer, I didn't know" excuse goes screaming right out the window, lol



Ain't that the truth!

But actually? No, I didn't know we were now supposed to have Log Books, medical card, DOT #...

Not for horses.


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## Palomine

Cat said:


> Is this some new law or just something that has been on the books for a while but just now getting enforced?


Been on books for awhile. But only now getting cracked down on.


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## Palomine

Also, saying you don't do it as business? Could lead to IRS looking at you if you claim your horses as business on taxes?

Or someone in DOT looking you up online and seeing you train horses for others, show or what have you, could result in other charges too.


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## busysmurf

Palomine said:


> Ain't that the truth!
> 
> But actually? No, I didn't know we were now supposed to have Log Books, medical card, DOT #...
> 
> Not for horses.


See, I never say I'm getting paid mileage if I gave someone a ride. The guy I spoke to definatly hinted that vague answers are best & not to mention money. Especially since I have my CDL, if I'm not getting paid, I don't need to worry about any of that.

But that's me, I'm not doing anything as a 'business'. I'm just a mom hauling a bunch of 4-H kids around :wink:


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## busysmurf

Palomine said:


> Also, saying you don't do it as business? Could lead to IRS looking at you if you claim your horses as business on taxes?
> 
> Or someone in DOT looking you up online and seeing you train horses for others, show or what have you, could result in other charges too.


Considering they will actually check your math in your logs, I wouldn't put it past them to check & see if you advertise. I got busted on mine for being 15 minutes off of what my timecard said:evil::evil::evil:


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## jamesqf

I dunno... When someone has a dually "pickup" that's about the size & weight (and horsepower) of a semi tractor, and a trailer approaching the size of a semi trailer (whether it's hauling horses, RV trailer, or toys), I can maybe see their point. I know there've been a number of times when I've wished certain idiots would have learned to drive their rig before they took it on the road.


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## Cat

Palomine said:


> Health papers that should be with your Coggins, that vet has filled out.


Depends on the state I guess. Our Health Certificates don't have a destination on them as they are given for a year's length of time so there is no spot for destination even if you are going someplace that needs you to get more recent ones to attend.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

Our Coggins are good for a year and they always ask for a destination. I give them my home address because ultimately that's where we'll end up.


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## poppy1356

We don't need health certs to be traveling in state. The stops that the DOT was doing last month here had nothing to do with coggins. They were ticketing those that didn't have proper DOT paperwork and licensing and inspections. It varies from state to state.


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## stevenson

in CA , if your truck is above a certain weight, and the trailer is over a certain weight , you must have the commercial license and must have the sticker on the truck door. Or you get one heck of a fine into the thousands of dollars.. EVEN if you do not haul for hire.


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## Skunkworks

They'll pull over truck and trailers but not the crazy people that drive the uhual's or big honkin RV's?

I'll need to look into if my truck plus my mom's 28' stock trailer would hit that limit. Depending on if I get stationed to somewhere horse friendly, I might be taking the 4 horses plus my mom with me. She found out she's allergic to pretty much anything green and growing so she's hoping I get stationed out in the middle of nowhere so she can "dump" the horses on me and just trade me room and board for watching the horses when I go flying.


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## Phly

What Nobody has mentioned is, CDL'S are federal, not state regulated. As are the laws controlling them. 
And yes, plated or weighing over 26k puts you into CDL'S unless an RV. < which is whack. 

I've carried a CDL class A since I was 18, just missed the grandfather. Also, my dually is tagged for 11k (the highest available the state offers with out getting power plates, which I may do) and trailer is tagged for 12k. We can all do math...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## busysmurf

Phly said:


> What Nobody has mentioned is, CDL'S are federal, not state regulated. As are the laws controlling them.
> *And yes, plated or weighing over 26k puts you into CDL'S* unless an RV. < which is whack.
> 
> I've carried a CDL class A since I was 18, just missed the grandfather. Also, my dually is tagged for 11k (the highest available the state offers with out getting power plates, which I may do) and trailer is tagged for 12k. We can all do math...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's what we checked on. That is true,* IF *it's for commerce. If you have a rig that size and are just going to a trail ride or a possibly a show for yourself, that's when you don't.


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## HorseMom1025

I would have to argue that at most shows I lose money rather than making it. LOL! I spend close to $300 for my daughter to win 5 little pieces of satin valued at maybe $3.00 each.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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