# Old-School Horse Training: The Snaffle Horse



## Wanstrom Horses (Dec 23, 2012)

There are many different variations of Vaquero horsemanship when it comes to using a snaffle. In the Old California style, the snaffle is rarely used. But in the Great Basin Buckaroo way, the snaffle is an essential tool. Many trainers believe a snaffle should be used for at least the first year. There really isn't a "right" time frame of using a snaffle when it comes to starting your bridle horse. Or any horse for that manner. If you want to strictly stick to tradition, don't use a snaffle. With my experiences, I find the best time frame for using a snaffle is between 25-45 rides. Depending on the horse. 
Before I even get on the colt, I want them to soften up and bend to pressure on both sides on the ground, know how to carry the bit(not biting at it), free lunge both directions bitted up, walk, trot, lope, and be very responsive to ground driving. I usually don't do a whole lot of under saddle ground work when I'm starting colts. I do get them used to being cinched up, but not introducing them to weight yet. I really want them to focus on softening up and responding. The first ride I tend to take it very slow. I don't go over a trot in the first ride. I walk them, very quietly back and forth across the arena, work on turning both ways and stoping with the smallest amount of pressure on their face as possible. I really don't start working on collection until about the 15th ride. After quite a few quiet rides in the arena, and they are nice and soft and responsive, I take them outside. I get them working on cattle, checking fences, doctoring, draging calf sleds etc. I find work is a lot more important within the first twenty rides then fine tuning. In about the last 10-15 rides, I bring the horse back in the arena. I do a lot of penned cow work, I work them on the fence to get them rolling around themselves nicely. I work on collection in all gaits. Below I've attached some pictures of me riding an snaffle horse in her 10th ride. You can see how level her headset his, and how quiet she is. This is what I like to see in a well started snaffle horse.


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## Wanstrom Horses (Dec 23, 2012)

*Loose rings, d-rings, egg-butts, oh my!!*

Many people ask, what is the best snaffle bit? It is really based off preference. I use them all, loose, D and egg-butts have all worked the same for me, as long as they are either heavy or weighted. As far as mouthpieces go, thats a different story. Many are under the impression that the smaller the moutpiece, the less severe. This is very incorrect. The smaller, the more severe. The twisted-wire snaffle is one of the most severe bits you can buy. It's like picking up a bucket with a very small-diameter handle full of water verses a bucket with a larger-diameter handle. Its the same concept with the snaffle bit, the larger the mouthpiece, the more mild. Twisted wire should be only used by very soft hands to avoid sores and hard mouthes. Horses shouldnt be started in anything but a mild, traditional snaffle with either a full copper mouthpiece or copper inlays. If I am restarting horses with previous under saddle training that are very hard mouthed and need lots of correction, then I will conisder using a twisted copper mouthpiece. I don't use twisted wire. I believe that a horse that needs a bit that severe needs to be restarted from the ground-up.


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## cowgirl4753 (Aug 3, 2012)

Very awesome! I have a 2-3 year old gelding that has had a handful of rides on him, last summer i spent most of the time just pony him around with my mare. I know you put a lot of emphasis on working cattle and such, which if i had cattle i would be doing!, but for us without what else would you suggest? How long of rides are you taking your colts out on? I have started lots of colts before but always with an indoor arena to use, this is like the first guy that i will be able to get some mileage on. 

Thanks for your informative, non preachy threads! Im sure that once the weather gets nice Ill have a bunch more questions for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cowgirl4753 (Aug 3, 2012)

Thought up another question, do you do a lot of 'sacking' out, with bags and tarps and what not, or just kinda get on and go? What do you do if you end up with a really bucky horse?
Do you do any tying around either on the halter or snaffle? 
Just picking your brain 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wanstrom Horses (Dec 23, 2012)

cowgirl4753 said:


> Thought up another question, do you do a lot of 'sacking' out, with bags and tarps and what not, or just kinda get on and go? What do you do if you end up with a really bucky horse?
> Do you do any tying around either on the halter or snaffle?
> Just picking your brain
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


For someone without access to cattle, I would just recommend doing a lot of fence work to achieve a horse that rolls around himself pretty nice. But other than that, just get them experienced. A good trail ride is extremely beneficial to both the horse and the rider. Build a relationship with your horse. Get to know him and get him to know you. And everything that horse does in the first thirty days doesn't have to be perfect. He still learning, if he trips on himself while working on the fence, don't over analyze it. He's still just a baby and still is getting the hang of himself. Horses make mistakes just like humans. And I see a lot of people tend to over analyze their horses every move in the first thirty days. These colts are gonna make a lot of mistakes. I saw a lady one time, and she was riding her colt, which had been under saddle for ten rides, work for one week just on flexing at the poll and tucking his nose. Don't get me wrong these are crucial things for a horse to learn, and this horse did understand it, but he wasnt perfect. She eventually bored him of working on it and he learned to push through her "corrections" and she had to start back at square one. All I'm trying to say is don't over analyze and over correct your colts. Some mistakes are safe to wait on until the hackamore stage since you are cramming so much into their mind in the first thirty days. Other than that, just ride! Always stay relaxed and don't push the colts too far. As for sacking out, the only thing I really do is get them slicker broke. I find horses just get annoyed with the plastic bag and tarp deal. And a slicker pretty much makes desensitizes them to both. I also don't want my horses numb to a flag or a bag on a stick, just cuz sometimes in the first few rides, they will ball up and not want to move forward with a rider. Then I just have my hubby follow me around with a flag just to encourage them to walk forward. As far as Bucky horses, I kinda like to ride them if they buck a little bit, lol. I used to ride ranch broncs a couple years ago. But if they buck a lot and I can't seem to ride it out of them, or like now, I'm pregnant and "not allowed" lol. I get an inner tube from the tire store and fill it with sand, I then tie both ends and throw it over the horses back. I tie the ends together and then free lunge them. Then they can buck all they want and never "win" because they can't throw the inner tube. Or if I know they are gonna be very broncy with a lot of duck, I'll have my hubby snub them up to one of our broke horses and get on and have him pony me around. There are a lot of other methods to this too, just let me know and I'll go into more depth. I do a lot of tying around before I do ground driving just to get them to give to the bit better and soften up. And for the first ten rides or so, about hour a day. Then I move up to about 4-5 hours a ride. Hope this answers everything!!


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Subbing.


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## cowgirl4753 (Aug 3, 2012)

Thanks, just love picking ur brain! I might go down to my neighbours tomorrow and see if he would mind me riding his herd. I cant see it being to much of a problem with his calving season fast approaching. An extra set of eyes is always good. 
When do you start roping with your colts? We didnt really start them till 4, but would get them used to the rope and dragging logs and such before that?
And Im not sure if I got to congratulate you on ur upcoming baby boy! I have a son as well, will be 2 come the end of March. Boys are trouble but so worth it! He loves the horses and going for rides or just getting pulled around on the tobaggan!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wanstrom Horses (Dec 23, 2012)

cowgirl4753 said:


> Thanks, just love picking ur brain! I might go down to my neighbours tomorrow and see if he would mind me riding his herd. I cant see it being to much of a problem with his calving season fast approaching. An extra set of eyes is always good.
> When do you start roping with your colts? We didnt really start them till 4, but would get them used to the rope and dragging logs and such before that?
> And Im not sure if I got to congratulate you on ur upcoming baby boy! I have a son as well, will be 2 come the end of March. Boys are trouble but so worth it! He loves the horses and going for rides or just getting pulled around on the tobaggan!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you! If my sons anything like me, he will be tons of trouble  usually in their first thirty days as long as their at least three years old. I don't do a lot of big roping, just dragging calf sleds and doctoring calves.


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## Ian McDonald (Aug 24, 2011)

Stop looking at your horses ears! Look up! ;]


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## Wanstrom Horses (Dec 23, 2012)

Ian McDonald said:


> Stop looking at your horses ears! Look up! ;]


Haha, it was blowing about 30mph that day, I was trying to keep my hat on


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## LisaG (Nov 11, 2012)

What do you do in terms of cow work to start off, other than a little roping and doctoring?

I have a greenie I've been riding over the winter. Footings not quite good enough to do much other than ride through the herd, follow a few cows, and sometimes quietly cut them out of the herd and hold them for a minute. I'll probably start her in cattle sorting this spring, but trying to think of what she needs to do before then.


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

Subbing. 

I have a coming 3 year old that's super brilliant and I can't wait to start her. 
I started my 2 year old last year in a snaffle and she was super soft and used to it on the ground before I rode her and breaking her was super easy.
I have a video of my dad riding her (her 7th ride, maybe?) when I had my knee surgery.


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

subing


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

What do you mean when you say you're looking for the horse to get good and comfortable 'rolling around himself'? Moving front and back independently? Off the leg?


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## Wanstrom Horses (Dec 23, 2012)

Sorry, I always forget not everyone talks like me! Just a nice, collected rollback. And just to clarify, what I mean by working on the fence is like below. This video is of this four year old mares first ride with a tack rein. Sometimes I like to free the horse up and ride with just my seat and a tack rein to get them to rely more on my seat than my hands. 

https://vimeo.com/57903033


EDIT: Just uploaded this, so it may take a little while to show up. It isnt anything really special anyways. Just like 10 seconds of a horse working the fence!


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## Wanstrom Horses (Dec 23, 2012)

LisaG said:


> What do you do in terms of cow work to start off, other than a little roping and doctoring?
> 
> I have a greenie I've been riding over the winter. Footings not quite good enough to do much other than ride through the herd, follow a few cows, and sometimes quietly cut them out of the herd and hold them for a minute. I'll probably start her in cattle sorting this spring, but trying to think of what she needs to do before then.


Just whatever I can get them exposed to. If we are sorting pairs one day, I'll use a colt that hasn't done it before. Or when I used to work at the stockyard here, I would keep a pen of colts there to work everyday on everything cattle related, penning off the scales, alleyway sorting, etc. Any kind of exposure is good exposure.


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## LisaG (Nov 11, 2012)

What do you look for in a good working ranch horse? At what point do you know whether or not a horse is going to work out for the ranch work in your area?

I'm in a cattle sorting club, and it seems like almost any breed will work alright in cattle sorting (and most of the same horses are also used on ranches). I've only seen two horses that were awful - they were actually scared of the cows.


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## Wanstrom Horses (Dec 23, 2012)

LisaG said:


> What do you look for in a good working ranch horse? At what point do you know whether or not a horse is going to work out for the ranch work in your area?
> 
> I'm in a cattle sorting club, and it seems like almost any breed will work alright in cattle sorting (and most of the same horses are also used on ranches). I've only seen two horses that were awful - they were actually scared of the cows.


Are you talking about conformation or attitude?


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

I find this all really interesting. I campdraft, which I suppose is similar to the cow section of working cowhorse. 

Campdrafting is done, on the whole, in snaffle bits. From the greenies right up to the open horses. I honestly can't even imagine doing a draft in a curb bit with a draped rein. 

I wonder if the training of our draft horses is not as good as it could be because of the lack of progression in bitting. Or wether the use of a spade bit wouldn't be compatable with drafting. 

I have always wanted to train a horse to a curb bit and/or a bosal, but I am always worried it will compromise their performance in a snaffle, which is what we have to use for competition.


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## Wanstrom Horses (Dec 23, 2012)

wild_spot said:


> I find this all really interesting. I campdraft, which I suppose is similar to the cow section of working cowhorse.
> 
> Campdrafting is done, on the whole, in snaffle bits. From the greenies right up to the open horses. I honestly can't even imagine doing a draft in a curb bit with a draped rein.
> 
> ...


Hang on, I gotta watch some videos of it so I can get the concept! Never heard of it. brb


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

This is the best performed campdrafter in Australia, to give you an idea!


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

And here's one showing the cutting portion.

Nigel Kable & Chevin Ivory - Cowhorse Community


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## Wanstrom Horses (Dec 23, 2012)

wild_spot said:


> This is the best performed campdrafter in Australia, to give you an idea!
> 
> Chevin Ivory Warwick Stallion Rd 1 - YouTube


Not gonna lie, that looks like a blast! Lol. Probably use snaffles because of all the contact? I'd say if the horses are performing good with it and that's the rules, so I wouldn't worry much. Every discipline is different, I've never seen an English rider with a spade bit lol, so if that's the rules, I'd just stick with a snaffle. You could maybe transition to a bosal or leverage for a different discipline, like just trail riding so you don't just have a finished horse riding in a snaffle. Around my area that's frowned upon, but if your horse works well in it, loves his job and doesnt give you trouble I honestly wouldn't worry about it.


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## cowgirl4753 (Aug 3, 2012)

Too cool wild spot! On the working cow portion is there a pattern you have to do, or required moves? Thanks for sharing
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LisaG (Nov 11, 2012)

Wanstrom Horses said:


> Are you talking about conformation or attitude?


Attitude and ability (which I suppose is partly conformation).


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## Wanstrom Horses (Dec 23, 2012)

LisaG said:


> Attitude and ability (which I suppose is partly conformation).


I like a big, framey, horse that got a lot of depth and width to him with a good set of withers, big feet and decent bone. I don't really pay too much attention to the little technical things as far as confo goes, as long as their legs are straight, they are sound and I think they can handle work, that's all that really matters when I'm looking for a horse. As far as breeds go, quarter drafts are nice, of course I love a good foundation, or big boned QH, paints if they have decent feet. I typically stay away from gaited and Arabs. Arabs are just too small and gaited horses I can't stand to ride. As far as attitude goes, I want a colt that has some gas to him. I'd rather have a horse with too much go than too little. Lazy, deadheaded horses make getting work done really hard. I also like a horse that's just a tad bit spooky, or snorty. That means they are paying attention to what's going on. I find them a tad bit easier to train they tend to be a lot smarter. And a naturally cowy horse is fantastic. I wish every horse was that way, but unfortunately a lot aren't. It can be trained into them, it's a pain in the butt sometimes, but I don't just throw them away if they aren't naturally cowy. They learn, and they learn fast that the right way to work cow will end up in a whole lot less work for them. Hope this answers your questions!


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

Concerning the camp drafting and the use of snaffle bits in the rules it’s only a fairly resent thing as far as I heard, from maybe the 70s. From what I heard, it was because of a guy called Chilla Seeney. He is pretty famous as a bronc rider and camp drafter here in Australia and went off the US to go on the rodeo circuit there. While he was there he learned about training horses with a hackamore. He also imported a colt who was a grandson (I think) of Jessie James, called Mr Jessie James JR (the grandfather of my old horses). Anyway, he brought the horse and the hackamore into a bunch of camp drafts and kicked everyone’s as#. The locals first ridiculed the hackamore, then threw a tantrum when his hackamore horse flogged their horses so they all petitioned for a rule change in camp drafting which stipulated that the horse has to be ridden in a bit.
That’s what I heard at least.


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## Wanstrom Horses (Dec 23, 2012)

AnrewPL said:


> Concerning the camp drafting and the use of snaffle bits in the rules it’s only a fairly resent thing as far as I heard, from maybe the 70s. From what I heard, it was because of a guy called Chilla Seeney. He is pretty famous as a bronc rider and camp drafter here in Australia and went off the US to go on the rodeo circuit there. While he was there he learned about training horses with a hackamore. He also imported a colt who was a grandson (I think) of Jessie James, called Mr Jessie James JR (the grandfather of my old horses). Anyway, he brought the horse and the hackamore into a bunch of camp drafts and kicked everyone’s as#. The locals first ridiculed the hackamore, then threw a tantrum when his hackamore horse flogged their horses so they all petitioned for a rule change in camp drafting which stipulated that the horse has to be ridden in a bit.
> That’s what I heard at least.


Seems relevant enough. The jealous people making all the rules


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## LisaG (Nov 11, 2012)

The campdrafting thing is very interesting. And the drama behind the rules is even more interesting! I always wonder about the rules around bits in open classes.Why not just let people compete in whatever they want, provided it's not cruel and is being used properly? I can see having snaffle classes for young horses. 

But I'm really not one for a million rules.

Thanks Wanstrom, I always like to hear what people look for. I have a QH/Percheron gelding - I think I've had him for about 16 years now - and he's sure sturdy and still sound. Still can be pretty lively, too! I don't see the draft crosses around here much anymore since the PMU barns closed down.


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## Wanstrom Horses (Dec 23, 2012)

LisaG said:


> The campdrafting thing is very interesting. And the drama behind the rules is even more interesting! I always wonder about the rules around bits in open classes.Why not just let people compete in whatever they want, provided it's not cruel and is being used properly? I can see having snaffle classes for young horses.
> 
> But I'm really not one for a million rules.
> 
> Thanks Wanstrom, I always like to hear what people look for. I have a QH/Percheron gelding - I think I've had him for about 16 years now - and he's sure sturdy and still sound. Still can be pretty lively, too! I don't see the draft crosses around here much anymore since the PMU barns closed down.


I really like a draft cross. That way you can get some bone back in stock horses. Sadly people are breeding the feet right out of the modern QH..


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

I had never heard of that! As far as I was aware the rule was there to stop the ammies putting a curb on their horses then riding around with contact like they still had a snaffle on. I can see how it would be much harder to not ruin your horses mouth doing something so fast and adrenalin fuelled in a leverage bit.

I might look into getting a Bosal then. I already ride her bitless a lot of the time on the trail, and on a super loose rein in her snaffle, so as to save her mouth a bit. I have always wanted to try a bosal and I think she is one who would go well in one. 

And yes, it is super fun! Difficult, and needs a bit of luck, but really fun. 



> On the working cow portion is there a pattern you have to do, or required moves?


It's all the one event, I just couldn't find a vid that showed both parts well. There is the 'camp' part, which is when you cut your cow from the mob and work it in front of the gate, then you call to open the gate, and then you have the 'draft' portion. In that bit you have to take the cow in a pattern kind of like a barrel pattern. Around one peg, then another in a figure eight, then around the back and through the 'gate' (Two pegs). You get disqualified if you lose your pattern more than once.


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

I think it was on Land Line on the ABC or something, they did a thing on Chilla Seeney, I think it's online somewhere.


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## mirage790 (Jan 5, 2013)

wild_spot said:


> I find this all really interesting. I campdraft, which I suppose is similar to the cow section of working cowhorse.
> 
> Campdrafting is done, on the whole, in snaffle bits. From the greenies right up to the open horses. I honestly can't even imagine doing a draft in a curb bit with a draped rein.
> 
> ...


Here is what I found that would be similar to what you do in campdrafting. These horses are all ridden with curb style bits.


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## mirage790 (Jan 5, 2013)

AnrewPL said:


> I think it was on Land Line on the ABC or something, they did a thing on Chilla Seeney, I think it's online somewhere.


Here ya go, an article on Chilla Seeny. Interesting man! Guess he passed away in 2009?

Landline - 21/03/2004: Chilla Seeney: a living legend . Australian Broadcasting Corp


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

Ok, didn't know he had died.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

LisaG said:


> The campdrafting thing is very interesting. And the drama behind the rules is even more interesting! I always wonder about the rules around bits in open classes.*Why not just let people compete in whatever they want, provided it's not cruel and is being used properly? I can see having snaffle classes for young horses.
> *
> But I'm really not one for a million rules.
> 
> Thanks Wanstrom, I always like to hear what people look for. I have a QH/Percheron gelding - I think I've had him for about 16 years now - and he's sure sturdy and still sound. Still can be pretty lively, too! I don't see the draft crosses around here much anymore since the PMU barns closed down.


If you ever get into showing in some of the ranch horse/stock horse associations, they will let you show in just about anything. I know for sure the American Stock Horse Assoc. allows snaffles and hackamores for any age horse. Just no prong bits, mouth pieces too thick or thin and no shanks over 8.5". Whereas showing in the National Reined Cow Horse Assoc. hackamores and snaffles for 5yrs and under, the two rein horse can only be shown for one year then required to move to the Bridle class.

I also have wanted to try Campdrafting. I made really good friends with an Aussie that was over here in the states on a work visa. She was the one who first told me about it, sounds like too much fun. Hopefully one these days I will make it down there!


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## mirage790 (Jan 5, 2013)

AnrewPL said:


> Ok, didn't know he had died.


Yes, sad to say.  And you were right about him dusting the commpetition wwith hackamose horses! Guess after they changed the rules on him, he put a headstall with a snaffle biy on under the bosal and rode that way! lol Sounds like my kind of guy!  

There's a nice article titled on him, Chilla - A Larrakin and a Legend

"On Saturday 3rd January 2009, the body of Australia's legendary horseman, Chilla Seeney, was carried by horse-drawn hearse to his family's grave site in the little town of Monto, Queensland. Chilla (Charles Alfred) Seeney was laid to rest after losing his long battle with Parkinson's disease and passing away on Christmas day. He was 80 years of age. Chilla was "seen off" by more than 300 of his friends and relatives, a testament to the kind of mateship and respect this charismatic character commanded throughout his colourful, and often controversial, life.

Chilla Seeney was a well-recognised "mover and shaker" in the Australian performance horse industry during its heyday - first throughout the early years of rodeo and roughriding, then in campdrafting, and later with the formative years of the cutting horse industry. He was a man of action, driven by what he called "the three Ds" - desire, devotion and discipline, and coupled with this, a fearless competitive spirit. For Chilla winning was everything and with that fierce determination he excelled at every sporting event he set his mind to."

You can read the rest of the atricle here: 
Ponderosa Quarter Horses - Chilla - A Larrakin and a Legend


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## LisaG (Nov 11, 2012)

COWCHICK77 said:


> If you ever get into showing in some of the ranch horse/stock horse associations, they will let you show in just about anything. I know for sure the American Stock Horse Assoc. allows snaffles and hackamores for any age horse. Just no prong bits, mouth pieces too thick or thin and no shanks over 8.5". Whereas showing in the National Reined Cow Horse Assoc. hackamores and snaffles for 5yrs and under, the two rein horse can only be shown for one year then required to move to the Bridle class.


That makes way more sense to me. I do compete in cattle sorting and ranch rodeo (though I'm not very competitive), and I'm thinking of doing cowboy mounted shooting next year (all sports where no one gives a s*&^ what kind of bit you have or how you hold your reins)

Okay, I have a snaffle horse training questions. I'm trying to teach my young mare to shift her weight back so she can turn more quickly. I've been doing lots of backing up, which seems to be helping. 

So before I get her to turn, I stop her, and ask her to shift her weight back a little, which she does. Then I ask her to move her shoulder with my leg, and direct rein her (so if we're going right, I use my left leg and right rein). 

Her sire is a reiner, and so she does turn fast, but I'd like her to shift even more weight back. Any suggestions?


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## Wanstrom Horses (Dec 23, 2012)

LisaG said:


> That makes way more sense to me. I do compete in cattle sorting and ranch rodeo (though I'm not very competitive), and I'm thinking of doing cowboy mounted shooting next year (all sports where no one gives a s*&^ what kind of bit you have or how you hold your reins)
> 
> Okay, I have a snaffle horse training questions. I'm trying to teach my young mare to shift her weight back so she can turn more quickly. I've been doing lots of backing up, which seems to be helping.
> 
> ...


Work her on the fence, that will get her butt underneath her and he weight headed in the right direction.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

LisaG said:


> That makes way more sense to me. I do compete in cattle sorting and ranch rodeo (though I'm not very competitive), and I'm thinking of doing cowboy mounted shooting next year (all sports where no one gives a s*&^ what kind of bit you have or how you hold your reins)
> 
> Okay, I have a snaffle horse training questions. I'm trying to teach my young mare to shift her weight back so she can turn more quickly. I've been doing lots of backing up, which seems to be helping.
> 
> ...


Hope you don't mind if I make some suggestions too...

I like to teach a horse to "back around" and for a couple of reasons, 1) it is great for teaching a horse to set himself up for a roll back, 2) it makes for teaching good lope offs 3) it teaches a horse to get that inside front out of the way for a spin, even though a spin is a forward movement(I can elaborate later) and 4) it can help identify where a horse is "stuck" out at, you can really feel where a horse is stiff at which usually shows up in the face. By softening the parts behind you fix the face.

Basically it is teaching a horse to back counter arced. For example, if you were having heck with roll backs to the left. To teach the back around for that side I would ask for the back up with my seat first and open my left seatbone, use my right leg way back to hold the hindquarter while opening my left leg, set my right right to block forward movement and lift my left rein(like if I was pulling it to my ribcage or arm pit) Your horse should rock his weight back onto the hind, free up the rib on the left, lift his shoulder to be able to step back underneath himself with the front left leg. If done correctly there should not be much resistance in the face and you can let him out/reward by letting him walk out of it on a semi circle or full circle to the left. At first you may only get one step out of him, then you can ask for two and so on. After he understands all you have to do is change your seat and lift your inside rein and he will understand it as "get back", he will automatically shift back, move the rib, and lifting the front end making for snappy roll backs.

When you put him on cattle and he understands this exercise he knows how to use his body to his advantage and he will pay attention to your seat and a slight lift of your inside rein. I have had this work both ways, this exercise help when putting them on cattle and I had putting them on cattle understand the exercise. I completely agree with Wanstrom as far as putting them cattle early, it gives meaning to what they are doing and like she says they don't need to be nit-picked. You can wallow all over them but pretty soon they figure out how to use themselves to get the job done quicker by setting themselves up correctly- but only if we stay out their way and assist when needed and not babysitting otherwise you end up in a big pulling match.

Another thing that helps with working on the fence on a younger horse is using a corner and the walls perpendicular so you are coming at it at a 45* and asking only for a few steps through the rollback as opposed to just using the same wall and asking for a complete 180* roll back. Then as he understands then go turning back and forth on the same wall. The 45* angle also gives enough room for him set himself and tuck/round rather than cheat, throw his head over then fence and flip his hindquarters out making for a U-turn instead of a over the hocks roll back.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

I do a heap of walk through spins. Getting correct bend and then just going round step by step just off seat, a lifted inside rein and the outside leg blocking the hip. 

I also find doing a rollback then pushing them forward out of it, al least a lope, helps them set back as they need that butt under them to power out, and most of them find it fun so they get motivated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LisaG (Nov 11, 2012)

Thanks everyone.



wild_spot said:


> I do a heap of walk through spins. Getting correct bend and then just going round step by step just off seat, a lifted inside rein and the outside leg blocking the hip.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Okay, quick question about this. I use my outside leg to move the shoulder. Am I doing something wrong, or are we talking about different moves? Or do you block the hip so the horse doesn't kick it out?


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

I have a question about bits. What are your thoughts on the differences of the action of a bit that has the chains attached to the bit so they can swivel under the shanks as opposed to bits that have the chains attached to the bit so they are hanging from the back of the shanks? So the fist picture compared to the second picture. (if the pics don’t work let me know Ill try to repost them.


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)




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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

wild_spot said:


> I find this all really interesting. I campdraft, which I suppose is similar to the cow section of working cowhorse.
> 
> Campdrafting is done, on the whole, in snaffle bits. From the greenies right up to the open horses. I honestly can't even imagine doing a draft in a curb bit with a draped rein.
> 
> ...


I don't think there is any difference in the quality of training, regardless of bit progression. It's just a different style of training. From the videos I've seen of campdrafting (would love to see it live someday or even compete...I may just show up at your door someday LOL), there is quite a lot of rein/bit involvement and much of it is done on contact; therefore, the use of the snaffle bit.

Given training for both rider and horse on how to use and understand a curb bit properly, it would be the same result, just with less contact; i/e a draped rein.

Wanstrom, it is so nice to have you here! For a long time, it was basically just me and W_S (who I quoted above) who shared the same basic training philosophies and experiences with the cattle and ranch type work, then along came Cowchick, and now you're here. It is really nice to meet other women who share my ideas and ideals regarding horses and their training .


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

LisaG, it depends on the horse. I mostly move the shoulders with my reins and back up with leg if I need to. So to start a rollback/spin, I set back in my seat, open my rein, look over that shoulder, and my outside leg/spur sits around the back end of the rib age to hold that hip in. If she is sluggish with her front end I will bring my leg forward and roll my spur up behind the girth to quicken up her front. Her biggest problem is coming to forward to early out of the turn, so we do a fair bit of backing into the turn, which is where dropping the hip out becomes more of a problem. When I'm in the camp and she is thinking forward and focused on the cow, then my spur will be more toward the shoulder pushing for that speedy depart.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

I actually went and looked up the rules for our campdraft organization. Turns out you can actually use any bit or bit less you like as long as the horse has free use of the head, ie no rings or head checks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

AnrewPL said:


> I have a question about bits. What are your thoughts on the differences of the action of a bit that has the chains attached to the bit so they can swivel under the shanks as opposed to bits that have the chains attached to the bit so they are hanging from the back of the shanks? So the fist picture compared to the second picture. (if the pics don’t work let me know Ill try to repost them.


Good question Andrew, all of ours have the swivel buttons like your second picture.


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## Wanstrom Horses (Dec 23, 2012)

I have bits with both. I don't really see too much difference, although, the shanks in on with chains tend to have just a touch more movement. But it is so slight, it doesn't make much difference. I have both, I like th chains just for looks. But as far a functionality it doesn't matter, IMO. Thanks Smrobs!!


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## LisaG (Nov 11, 2012)

wild_spot said:


> LisaG, it depends on the horse. I mostly move the shoulders with my reins and back up with leg if I need to. So to start a rollback/spin, I set back in my seat, open my rein, look over that shoulder, and my outside leg/spur sits around the back end of the rib age to hold that hip in. If she is sluggish with her front end I will bring my leg forward and roll my spur up behind the girth to quicken up her front. Her biggest problem is coming to forward to early out of the turn, so we do a fair bit of backing into the turn, which is where dropping the hip out becomes more of a problem. When I'm in the camp and she is thinking forward and focused on the cow, then my spur will be more toward the shoulder pushing for that speedy depart.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Okay, thanks. I'm not the most refined rider sometimes, and I really need to think about what I'm doing. And this mare moves so fast, I'm sometimes not sure about my form, etc...

It would be great to have a ranch horse subforum on here. I wonder if there are enough people to justify that.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

LisaG said:


> It would be great to have a ranch horse subforum on here. I wonder if there are enough people to justify that.


It would be worth asking. I think I'll post a suggestion for one and see what happens.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

LisaG said:


> Okay, thanks. I'm not the most refined rider sometimes, and I really need to think about what I'm doing. And this mare moves so fast, I'm sometimes not sure about my form, etc...
> 
> It would be great to have a ranch horse subforum on here. I wonder if there are enough people to justify that.


I had asked, so far there has not been enough threads yet to justify a subforum.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

LOL, well, I just asked again.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

smrobs said:


> LOL, well, I just asked again.


LOL, well maybe it will genrate more interest!


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

LisaG said:


> Okay, thanks. I'm not the most refined rider sometimes, and I really need to think about what I'm doing. And this mare moves so fast, I'm sometimes not sure about my form, etc...
> 
> It would be great to have a ranch horse subforum on here. I wonder if there are enough people to justify that.


I feel you! Moslty I just muddle through on my own. Funnily enough when i'm not trying for something I can normally get it pretty good. But when I actually think about it, it all goes out the window! Like if i'm working a cow, I just naturally sit into the stops and she stops great, but if i'm doing flatwork and psych myself up for a stop I tend to get popped out of my saddle.

I trailered her over to a trainer friends place yesterday and it was great, he rode her for about an hour and gave me so many little 'refining' things to work on that I have been missing out on riding by myself.

He gave me another exercise to work on our turns too. Get her counterbent and backing while giving her hip, so you are backing kind of in a circle. So you would be backing a circle to your left with her head counterbent to the right, and your right spur pushing her hind quarters our to the left. Once she is doing that softly and freely, open up the right rein, switch legs so your left leg is on, and let her roll back over. It was really good getting her right back on her hocks and lightening her front, and stopping her tendency to get stiff in the bridle and want to walk out of her turns.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I hope so. Especially since topics that fit that life don't really fit in anywhere else except "horse talk" or "horse training".


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## Wanstrom Horses (Dec 23, 2012)

By the time I'm done with this bridle horse stuff, hopefully we will have enought threads. Hey cowchick, I got a ? for you. LIttle off topic, but what do you think about a twisted gut line verses a braided one??


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

wild_spot said:


> I feel you! Moslty I just muddle through on my own. Funnily enough when i'm not trying for something I can normally get it pretty good. But when I actually think about it, it all goes out the window! Like if i'm working a cow, I just naturally sit into the stops and she stops great, but if i'm doing flatwork and psych myself up for a stop I tend to get popped out of my saddle.
> 
> I trailered her over to a trainer friends place yesterday and it was great, he rode her for about an hour and gave me so many little 'refining' things to work on that I have been missing out on riding by myself.
> 
> He gave me another exercise to work on our turns too. Get her counterbent and backing while giving her hip, so you are backing kind of in a circle. So you would be backing a circle to your left with her head counterbent to the right, and your right spur pushing her hind quarters our to the left. Once she is doing that softly and freely, open up the right rein, switch legs so your left leg is on, and let her roll back over. It was really good getting her right back on her hocks and lightening her front, and stopping her tendency to get stiff in the bridle and want to walk out of her turns.


WS, you just explained the backing a circle/counterbend way better than I did...LOL, leave it to me to make it more complicated than it is...


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Ha ha! I was thinking to myself 'Hmmm... This is gonna be really hard to explain over a computer' lol!


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Wanstrom Horses said:


> By the time I'm done with this bridle horse stuff, hopefully we will have enought threads. Hey cowchick, I got a ? for you. LIttle off topic, but what do you think about a twisted gut line verses a braided one??


I guess I am not good enough to really feel the difference to be perfectly honest. LOL
I just play with them and I like the feel I buy it(or trade  ). What about you?


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## Wanstrom Horses (Dec 23, 2012)

COWCHICK77 said:


> I guess I am not good enough to really feel the difference to be perfectly honest. LOL
> I just play with them and I like the feel I buy it(or trade  ). What about you?


Well I've always had braided, never used a twisted one cuz I figured they would always come untwisted if I used them too heavy. They are really hard to find, but I had a old Hispanic friend give me them as a gift because he is moving back to Mexico. Idk whether to use them, or just hang them on the wall..


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Wanstrom Horses said:


> Well I've always had braided, never used a twisted one cuz I figured they would always come untwisted if I used them too heavy. They are really hard to find, but I had a old Hispanic friend give me them as a gift because he is moving back to Mexico. Idk whether to use them, or just hang them on the wall..


LOL, I totally misread your original question( while burning some chow) I thought you meant cores in bosals. I have never tried. (or even swung one) a twisted one so I can't say, all I have tried was braided. Can you feel the difference?


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## Wanstrom Horses (Dec 23, 2012)

I think they would be a lot smoother running, but I'm not sure, I've always ever used braided. I dont want to use one and have it untwist, because they are pretty sentimental to me, but at the same time I really want to see how they are!


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Wanstrom Horses said:


> I think they would be a lot smoother running, but I'm not sure, I've always ever used braided. I dont want to use one and have it untwist, because they are pretty sentimental to me, but at the same time I really want to see how they are!


Ya, too bad you couldn't get your hands on one that wasn't sentimental to test out!


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## cowgirl4753 (Aug 3, 2012)

Ok just me being out of the loop, but whats a 'gut line'? For the life of me I cant figure it out! Thanks
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wanstrom Horses (Dec 23, 2012)

cowgirl4753 said:


> Ok just me being out of the loop, but whats a 'gut line'? For the life of me I cant figure it out! Thanks
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lol, Sorry! My uncle and grandpa and parents always called them "gut lines". So its a habit of mine. Most people call them reatas or riatas, a braided or twisted rawhide rope. Like this:


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## cowgirl4753 (Aug 3, 2012)

Ah now I follow you! lol thanks I've seen them around but never used one, so cant tell you the difference in twisted or braided. ;-) I do love my 4 strand scant though lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cobra (Jan 30, 2013)

subbing...


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## Toymanator (Jul 31, 2009)

AnrewPL said:


> I have a question about bits. What are your thoughts on the differences of the action of a bit that has the chains attached to the bit so they can swivel under the shanks as opposed to bits that have the chains attached to the bit so they are hanging from the back of the shanks? So the fist picture compared to the second picture. (if the pics don’t work let me know Ill try to repost them.



I prefer bridle rings, I can get a better vibration signaled to my horse down my reins to my rein chains with bridle rings like above. It also helps to make a better angle from the reins to the rein chains. I like my bridle reins to be 42" long because on the horses I ride it, creates the right balance between rein and chain. the rein chains and reins should have a droop and balance to them that will make them look like one. Some people put too many links in there chains or the reins are too long so the angles are all messed up and you don't signal the same way that you could.


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

LisaG said:


> It would be great to have a ranch horse subforum on here. I wonder if there are enough people to justify that.


I second that. I'd contribute videos and would love to learn what others do


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

Wanstrom Horses said:


> Lol, Sorry! My uncle and grandpa and parents always called them "gut lines". So its a habit of mine. Most people call them reatas or riatas, a braided or twisted rawhide rope. Like this:


Cowchick and Wanstrom-
Yall might want to try braided nylon if you ever get a chance. They aren't as traditional or punchy lookin as reatas, but they're great usin ropes and have a little more body. Heavier than twisted ropes and throw great in the wind(if you get a quality one. There's cheap ones out there). Not knockin the rawhide at all, just a cheaper option for a braided line


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## Toymanator (Jul 31, 2009)

AmazinCaucasian said:


> Cowchick and Wanstrom-
> Yall might want to try braided nylon if you ever get a chance. They aren't as traditional or punchy lookin as reatas, but they're great usin ropes and have a little more body. Heavier than twisted ropes and throw great in the wind(if you get a quality one. There's cheap ones out there). Not knockin the rawhide at all, just a cheaper option for a braided line


Reata's are fun to throw, but they cost so much money and time to make. I only bring mine out for special occasions. They are like women, they can take a lot of pulling but won't stand for a jerk. The closest feel to a rawhide reata is a four strand poly rope. They are much cheaper, more readily available, and fun to play around with.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

AmazinCaucasian said:


> Cowchick and Wanstrom-
> Yall might want to try braided nylon if you ever get a chance. They aren't as traditional or punchy lookin as reatas, but they're great usin ropes and have a little more body. Heavier than twisted ropes and throw great in the wind(if you get a quality one. There's cheap ones out there). Not knockin the rawhide at all, just a cheaper option for a braided line


AC, I remember you saying that last winter. I have been curious about them but I can't say as I have really seen a good one. They had some cheap ones down at the tack store when we were in TX. Do you have a brand you like or a link to one online, I want to try one?!? 



Toymanator said:


> Reata's are fun to throw, but they cost so much money and time to make. I only bring mine out for special occasions. They are like women, they can take a lot of pulling but won't stand for a jerk. The closest feel to a rawhide reata is a four strand poly rope. They are much cheaper, more readily available, and fun to play around with.


LOL! That's funny!
I usually rope with a 3 or 4 strand poly too, I like the bigger diameter ones they got some weight to them. I like the cotton ropes, they are a favorite when the weather is right for them. And if you get a good one they last a long time like AC was saying about the braided nylon. People get so weird about treating them(cotton ropes), linseed oil, putting them in the oven...blah, blah, blah...they just need to be used! LOL


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## Wanstrom Horses (Dec 23, 2012)

Haha, Toymanator, I must be a grass rope because I won't stand for any mans BS lol  I like a four strand poly rope for just using. I've had a few break on me, mainly roping horses. You probably all know the whole horse roping at a ranch rodeo, rope breaks, hondo flies back, slaps you in the face, and you ride out of the arena with no catch and a bleeding face  but I really like the feel of a solid braided reata. I retire mine to the wall after a couple years, I just love the feel, and look of a gut line. I have an old horsehide one that a friend of mine braided that has its special place on the wall. I've never tried a braided nylon rope. And making a catch with cotton is like peeing in the wind for me


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Wanstrom Horses said:


> And making a catch with cotton is like peeing in the wind for me


Wha???LOL! I love my cottons.... well that is why I say ropes are like underwear...personal preference!
I have one from Mexico that will wear your ***(okay- arm) out if you don't get it thrown. I love them for those warmer windy spring days. I just haven't found them to be all that useful in the extreme cold and when cold _and_ wet...:-x


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

I only ever used twisted nylon until I finally got a braided rawhide reata, I couldn’t even get a loop formed with it at first, but after a few hours of roping a fencepost, and a very sore arm, I actually came to prefer it, just has a special feel to it that nothing else I have ever swung has. But the upshot of it all is that I’m absolutely terrible at roping anyway, usually couldn’t hit a barn wall if I tried to rope inside the barn. But it’s still fun to try.


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## Wanstrom Horses (Dec 23, 2012)

COWCHICK77 said:


> Wha???LOL! I love my cottons.... well that is why I say ropes are like underwear...personal preference!
> I have one from Mexico that will wear your ***(okay- arm) out if you don't get it thrown. I love them for those warmer windy spring days. I just haven't found them to be all that useful in the extreme cold and when cold _and_ wet...:-x


Cottons just never worked for me. Lol. And maybe they just don't work for me cuz I live in an area known for it to start pouring rain while the sun is still shining


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

AnrewPL said:


> I only ever used twisted nylon until I finally got a braided rawhide reata, I couldn’t even get a loop formed with it at first, but after a few hours of roping a fencepost, and a very sore arm, I actually came to prefer it, just has a special feel to it that nothing else I have ever swung has. But the upshot of it all is that I’m absolutely terrible at roping anyway, usually couldn’t hit a barn wall if I tried to rope inside the barn. But it’s still fun to try.


I use an underwear analogy for choosing ropes and marriage for roping in general, it is the most fun yet frustrating thing you will do in your life!

(I have to work really hard to be less than mediocre at it..LOL)


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## Wanstrom Horses (Dec 23, 2012)

AnrewPL said:


> I only ever used twisted nylon until I finally got a braided rawhide reata, I couldn’t even get a loop formed with it at first, but after a few hours of roping a fencepost, and a very sore arm, I actually came to prefer it, just has a special feel to it that nothing else I have ever swung has. But the upshot of it all is that I’m absolutely terrible at roping anyway, usually couldn’t hit a barn wall if I tried to rope inside the barn. But it’s still fun to try.


Point at whatever your aiming to catch. For some odd reason, it makes your loop go in the direction you want it to. After trying to rope a bucket off my horse for three days straight when I was six years old, my uncle finally came out, yanked me off my horse and told me that. Lol! But I agree, nothing has the feel of rawhide.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Wanstrom Horses said:


> Cottons just never worked for me. Lol. And maybe they just don't work for me cuz I live in an area known for it to start pouring rain while the sun is still shining


LOL! For sure! 
They have the knack for being very inconsistant too. There is some we have bought and hated or didn't last long and some that were great from the beginning and lasted years, others that were thrown over the fence because they were horrible in the beginning until broke in. 
Not going to lie, they are fun when you slide a lot of rope and they blow a bunch of white smoke...tee hee!


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

Yeah, I guess part of it is we don’t really have a big tradition of it in Australia, part of the reason stock saddles don’t have a horn on them. I have seen some old codgers in the NT do it though, they would typically use twisted rawhide and have the rope attached to the saddle rigging or sometimes they would put a collar on the horse (the kind of thing you rig a horse up with to pull a wagon) and attach it to that. Any time I start a horse I always get them trained to it to my best ability, so that if someone wants to train them for it properly later on the horse at least know what a rope swinging around them is and can do the basics. .But it is fun.


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## Toymanator (Jul 31, 2009)

I love playing around with ropes, from my experience the braided nylon ropes kink really bad. Cotton ones are fun to throw, but they require more maintenance and aren't as good in the cold weather. The four strand poly is the most consistent for me. But I have a lot of ropes, the maguey rope can be fun but smokes pretty bad. The best thing to do is buy a rope and start throwing it at everything. (except other people of course) I like to teach my horses on the fence, I rope a fence post and run a little line. I like them to get to where they know how to feel the tension coming down the line and I can work the rope off the fence. By using the fence pole it puts a lot less stress on the horse and prepares them for when they will be in a working situation.


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

Ranch Rope by Oxbox Tack Premium Braided 60' $59

Here's a link if I did it right, Cowchick, its in Iowa of all places. You gotta find a distributor for Oxbow Tack. They make the heavy ones, I've seen chincey lightweight ones you couldn't swing in a 10 mph wind, much less throw. And if ya got ta chase somethin down, thats a automatic 30 mph windDon't know who else makes em, but I know Oxbows are what I have now.


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

Toymanator said:


> I love playing around with ropes, from my experience the braided nylon ropes kink really bad. Cotton ones are fun to throw, but they require more maintenance and aren't as good in the cold weather. The four strand poly is the most consistent for me. But I have a lot of ropes, the maguey rope can be fun but smokes pretty bad. The best thing to do is buy a rope and start throwing it at everything. (except other people of course) I like to teach my horses on the fence, I rope a fence post and run a little line. I like them to get to where they know how to feel the tension coming down the line and I can work the rope off the fence. By using the fence pole it puts a lot less stress on the horse and prepares them for when they will be in a working situation.


 

That’s kind of like how I try doing it. I also went out and got a break away hondo. I lost a rope once in some thick scrub (Utah style rope holder slipped of over the horn) and the only one I could get to replace it at the time was a bright pink one, I felt like a twit carting it around on my saddle, very un manly like, I put the breakaway hondo on it and would rope cattle as I was tailing them along in the paddock. Didn’t like the hondo sometimes coming back straight at me though. 
I’d occasionally rope my cattle dog too, he didn’t like it much and would take off if he saw the rope come out, besides I felt like a bit of a tool roping a mutt too.


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## Toymanator (Jul 31, 2009)

AnrewPL said:


> the only one I could get to replace it at the time was a bright pink one, I felt like a twit carting it around on my saddle, very un manly like,


You weren't "tough enough to wear pink?":wink:


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

Well I carted the pink rope around a lot, though I never liked it I was looking forward to the day I had used it enough to fade most of the colour out. I remember a few times running across people while taking cattle along a road and of course, you stop and have a chat with them. I used to get weird enough looks just from riding in a slick fork saddle with a hackamore, the pink rope really topped it all off, I ended up with a reputation for being a bit of an oddball in the area.


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## Wanstrom Horses (Dec 23, 2012)

Haha, I have a stubborn blue heeler pup, imagine that!! Spur would always take off after the cattle before I sent him. I tried shock collars and well quite frankly, whopping the daylights outta him, but nothing worked. One day he took of after the cows without me sending him, I was doctoring and already had a loop built, so I roped him and left a little slack, he hit the end of the rope and it popped him on the ground and knocked the wind out of him. Last time he ever went after anything without me sending him. LOL. so don't feel like a tool for roping your dog, I've had to rope some of those stubbirn hangin' tree mutts too and drag them a few feet to get them to understand "that'll do". And AC, that rope wont break. Hmmm, I'd like to put that one to the test, I'm a notorious rope breaker.


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

Wanstrom Horses said:


> And AC, that rope wont break. Hmmm, I'd like to put that one to the test, I'm a notorious rope breaker.


Yeah they're wrong about that. The guy that made that claim has never used one to pull a round bale with a truck


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## FaydesMom (Mar 25, 2012)

Bump back to page one to keep from getting lost in the chaff.  

I'm so looking forward to the weather to clear up in your neck of the woods so we can get some videos. I'm just getting my little mare started and I'm looking forward to following along with you as you go.

I'm almost a year into letting Fayde just grow up, fill out and be a horse again after her rough start before I got her. I don't think I'll ever know exactly what happened to her, but I'm guessing it was some wannabe "cowboy" who just climbed on and went to town on her. She was terrified of a saddle on her back or anything flapping around near her hindquarters. :-( 

I got her at coming 4 with an 8 month colt on her side and supposedly "green broke". The first time I saddled her up she exploded into a PRCA quality bucking fit and I quickly realized she was way short of even green broke. She has always been a sweet heart, but had no clue what so ever of how to do anything. Lots of ground work and confidence building and we are just about ready to go. She has filled out and is growing up to be a nice stout little mare.

We have just started back with getting her to understand the saddle isn't going to eat her. She is doing real well and has had almost no "Oh my gawd, it's going to kill me!" moments recently. So now we are starting to pack the bridle along with the saddle and hope to be stepping up on her some time soon. 

Anybody else looking forward to more from Wanstrom??


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