# Natural Balance Dentistry?



## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

not sure about PA, but alot of these people are operating illegally. Basically considered practicing vet without being a vet. A real vet in my area doesnt charge that much, I definetly cant see paying double for someone of questionable ability and legal standing.


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## Rachel1786 (Nov 14, 2010)

Joe4d said:


> not sure about PA, but alot of these people are operating illegally. Basically considered practicing vet without being a vet. A real vet in my area doesnt charge that much, I definetly cant see paying double for someone of questionable ability and legal standing.


The only way it could be illegal is if they are sedating animals without a veterinary license. My trimmer is coming out tomorrow so I am going to talk with her more about it, she said she had amazing results with her horse, she said she saw a positive change in her horse after being worked on. 
Once I add in the farm call($75) Float($80) and the mandatory sedation($35+) It actually works out to be cheaper, as I don't believe they charge a farm call(but I have to check on that for sure) I also believe they do it without sedation(or else they would legally need a vet). In theory the idea sounds very good and much more in depth then a float from the vet.
There is more info here for those interested Spencer LaFlure | Horse Dentistry Expert And Founder Of Natural Balance Dentistry | Advanced Whole Horse Dentistry


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Gotta say I only trust a vet in dentistry cases. But not just any vet--only those who have had additional training. There's a specialist around here who only does dental issues. I've seen too many botched jobs...


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

Like I said laws in different states vary. 
VA laws:
§ 54.1-3813. Registration of equine dental technicians A. As used in this section, "equine dental technician" means an individual who satisfies the criteria established by the Board for registration to perform duties relating to the care and maintenance of equine teeth in accordance with this section and regulations promulgated by the Board. A licensed veterinary technician shall practice in accordance with the requirements of § 54.1-3806 and regulations of the Board governing the practice of licensed veterinary technicians.

B. The Board may register a person as an equine dental technician who meets the following criteria: (i) satisfactory evidence that he is of good moral character, (ii) recommendations from at least two licensed veterinarians with practice bases that are at least 50 percent equine, and (iii) evidence that he holds current certification from the International Association of Equine Dentistry or a Board-approved certification program or has satisfactorily completed a Board-approved training program. The Board may register individuals who have not completed a Board-approved training program or do not hold a current certification from the International Association of Equine Dentistry or a Board-approved certification program if they have engaged in acts considered to be those of an equine dental technician as set forth in subsections C and E of this section for at least five years and provide the following: (i) satisfactory evidence of length of time of practice, (ii) recommendations from at least two licensed veterinarians with practice bases that are at least 50 percent equine, and (iii) proof of continued competency satisfactory to the Board.

C. It shall be unlawful for any person not holding a current and valid registration as an equine dental technician or a current and valid license as a veterinarian to perform the following duties:

1. The planing or leveling of equine teeth using nonmotorized hand tools for routine dental maintenance;

2. The planing or leveling of equine teeth using motorized tools performed for routine dental maintenance, or the extraction of wolf teeth premolars including premolars 105, 205, 305 and 405, performed under the direct supervision of a licensed veterinarian where (a) there exists an established client-patient relationship between the veterinarian and the owner, (b) the veterinarian is present, and (c) the veterinarian remains responsible for the sedation of the animal; and

3. Any other task restricted pursuant to regulations promulgated by the Board.

Notwithstanding the foregoing, no equine dental technician shall administer any sedative, tranquilizer, analgesic, prescription medication, or other drug under any circumstances.

D. The provisions of this section shall not prevent or prohibit:

1. Any person from performing tasks related to the practice of equine dentistry under the direct and immediate supervision of a licensed veterinarian or registered equine dental technician during completion of training and experience necessary for registration for a period not to exceed twelve months; or

2. A licensed veterinary technician from planing or leveling equine teeth for routine dental maintenance under the immediate and direct supervision of a licensed veterinarian, provided the licensed veterinary technician has graduated from an American Veterinary Medical Association accredited program with successful completion of coursework in equine dentistry or can document training comparable to that of an equine dental technician.

E. The Board shall promulgate regulations in order to carry out the provisions of this section, which shall include (i) criteria and fees for application and renewal; (ii) requirements for evidence of continued competency for equine dental technicians; and (iii) standards to ensure the health, safety, and welfare of animals treated by equine dental technicians.

Acts 2007, c. 754; Acts 2008, c. 490, eff. March 8, 2008.


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## Dame Nuit (Nov 15, 2011)

I can't see how dentistry could be "natural balanced" :?: ...

I think there is only 2 kinds of dental technicians: the good ones and the others. :twisted: 

Just trut your vet to know if the job done is all right or not. :wink:


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

I've never heard of natural balance dentistry- what are they doing differently than a "normal" floating?


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## Rachel1786 (Nov 14, 2010)

So I talked to Beth(my trimmer) about it today and while there is no way I'd be able to explain it as well as she does, she said they look at the whole horse, not just the teeth and align the TMJ. She said when she had him work on her horse without even looking in his mouth he could tell her the issues she was having with him. She said before he would take about 20 minutes to warm up and start working from behind, had issues picking up the left(i think) lead and popped his left shoulder out when turning . She said after having him work on him he was a completely new horse, he immediately was working from behind and wasn't having issues with his left anymore.


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## Dame Nuit (Nov 15, 2011)

i see nothing new in what you tell us : looking at the hole horse and at the mouth is just the way equin dentistry job should always be done.
That's the way it is explained in "equin dentistry" the book each technician should have read before he works on horses.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

TMJ ? 
Now its starting to sound like some Deon Warwick hocus pocus.


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## Rachel1786 (Nov 14, 2010)

Dame Nuit said:


> i see nothing new in what you tell us : looking at the hole horse and at the mouth is just the way equin dentistry job should always be done.
> That's the way it is explained in "equin dentistry" the book each technician should have read before he works on horses.


When my vet did my horses teeth it was a quick "file points here, hooks here and done" type of thing, there was no evaluating the horse to see if there was anything going on. She did my appy(well technically he's my moms but I come over and do all the care for him lol she just pays his bills) He was difficult for it even with way more drugs then it should have taken to sedate him. Before the float he dropped a lot of food(but he's on the heavy side so not too big a deal lol) and after she was done he STILL dropped just as much food. I like my vet but she doesn't seem to be up to par on dentistry and I understand that to be the case with a lot of equine vets, same with nutrition, they get a short course on it in school and unless they do continuing education on it specifically that is all they get. 

I was really hoping to hear from people who actually have experience with one of these equine dentists, good or bad but just someone who has had them work on their horse and can either say "Ya, they are amazing and did fantastic work on my horse" or "yes I used on and I found no difference from when I vet did it" or " I used them and it's all a load of crap" 

I'm not trying to defend their methods or explain them because of I did I would have NO idea what I was talking about. What Beth told me made sense and I was just looking for more opinions from people who used them before. 

Unless you have actually had negative experience with them I don't see how you can say it's a load of crap. 

For those interested, there is a short video on their website where they tell you a little about what they do. 
The Horseman's Guide to Natural Balance Dentistry - DVD Preview - YouTube


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

When you get to my age you are a natural skeptic, and anything that promises to cure everything gets automatically labeled as Snake Oil until proved other wise.

There are a lot of people out there thinking up great ways of parting people with their money, and lets face it horse owners are a fantastic target, not only do we have tack rooms full of 'useful' items, I bet most of us have some sort of 'gadget' that was argued to cure everything hiding in the corner somewhere.

Hell I'm even seriously thinking of marketing my own..........it's simple, it works, and packaged properly it would make money, I'm sure of it


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## Geoff Tucker DVM (Nov 20, 2011)

A quote from Sherlock Holmes: - "I never guess. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."
(Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Adventures Of Sherlock Holmes, A Scandal in Bohemia)

There has been no good scientific studies to show one way or another that the teeth and the TM joint are directly affected by each other. Almost all TM joints light up under nuclear scintigraphy with no conclusions drawn as to the status of their teeth. 

It is a fact that horses chew 10,000 to 40,000 times a day. If averaged, that's 750,000 chews every month. How on earth can one float that "balances" the mouth continue to remain balanced?

People (including horse owners) are attracted to the "new and shiny" which are the staple of charlatans. As Carl Sagan said: “If we don’t practice the tough habits of thought, we cannot hope to solve the truly serious problems that face us, and we risk becoming a nation of suckers, a world of suckers, up for grabs by the next charlatan who saunters along.” – Carl Sagan, Pulitzer Prize physicist.

The legality of performing equine dentistry varies from state to state. A rule of thumb is this - non veterinary dentists cannot use drugs, do anything more than rasp the teeth, and often cannot use power equipment.

I have a FAQ section on my dentistry site which can be reached through my main site listed in my profile. I also in the blog section discuss the issues of who should float your horse. The site will take some time to thoroughly digest so grab another cup of coffee before you go there.

I'm passionate about horsemanship and equine dentistry. Thank you, Doc T


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## Clementine (Sep 24, 2009)

I say go for it. I don't know about your situation, but I trust my farrier even more than I trust my vet, and I would be willing to try anything that he swears by. I'm cautious of anyone with power tools, but it would take a lot of work to seriously mess up a horse's teeth with a rasp, so I think it's worth trying out. 

Honestly, it could be a load of crap. But it could be something that makes a real difference for your horse. The risk seems minimal, so why not give it a try?


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## Clementine (Sep 24, 2009)

Also, I wanted to say that the theory of it does seem to make sense. If the way the jaw closes does affect the TMJ (which it does seem like it would do), then that would continue down the horse's skeleton and possibly throw everything else out of balance. It actually seems really cool to me.


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## aspin231 (Mar 20, 2010)

...all I have to add is...
A float from a 'normal' vet here, if you trailer to the clinic, is $200! A farm call is an extra $100 if you want to go that route.

So, see how the natural balance thing goes for you. I see no harm in it, and if you don't like the results you can certainly revert to conventional methods in the future.


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## Geoff Tucker DVM (Nov 20, 2011)

Clementine said:


> Also, I wanted to say that the theory of it does seem to make sense. If the way the jaw closes does affect the TMJ (which it does seem like it would do), then that would continue down the horse's skeleton and possibly throw everything else out of balance. It actually seems really cool to me.


This is how bad things get started. For example, it made sense for years that the sun circled the earth and the earth was the center of everything. Finally 2 very smart people figured out about 400 years ago that the earth circled the sun. 

Just because it seems to make sense doesn't mean it is true. These "natural balanced" dentists are just doing an effective job in removing all sharp points.

As far as not trusting your vet, I can't blame you. Most vets these days are glorified technicians that don't know one end of the horse from the other. They are book smart but can't float a horse without over sedating them.

It's time we all started to think about everything we are told and say, "Show Me The Evidence!"

After 50,000 floats I am confident in what I think.Doc T


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## bethannparise (Nov 27, 2011)

*Rick Samuels Natural Balance Dentistry*

Hello to all!

I use Rick Samuels and suggest that everyone use him or anyone else certified under Spencer LaFlure with Natural Balance dentistry. I can talk to for hours on Natural Balance Dentistry, the methods and how it works. But the proof is in the results, in the differences.

Rick worked on my horses for the first time a few weeks ago and I had the oppertunity to spend the weekend with him learning more while he worked on horses.

My OTTB would not take his right lead, would not collect, use his back, use his hind end, has no topline...etc. The very next day after he was done I rode my horse and it was as if I was on a completely different horse. As soon as I sat on him he collected, used his hind end, was calm comfotable and I felt like I was floating on a cloud. He has since then always gotten the correct leads. Prior to this I had my TB for 2 years for I have worked with various grand prix level trainers to get this horse going and no one could help because my horse could not physically use his muscles in the correct manner because he mouth had many imbalances and his TMJ was not centric.

I spent this whole past weekend witnessing changes in the 16 horses that he worked on. Horses who had no muscle response in the hind end with in seconds regained responce because Rick was able to turn the signal back on. Horses that walked in lame walked out sound. Cranky miserable mean horses are now sweet.

It may sound like hocus pocus many of you may not be able to grasp it. But the proof is in the differences in the behavior in the performance.

Rick Samuels is a certified equine dentist not a vet. He does not claim to be a vet. For those of you who think vets know it all you have a lot to learn about life. Laws are different for each state however, if I lived in a state where Rick couldnt work on my horses I would either MOVE or TRAILER my horses to him.


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## bethannparise (Nov 27, 2011)

If you truely don't know what Natural Balance Dentistry is then you shouldn't talk about it. Educate yourself. Knowledge is power. Power to make choices and do what is right for the horse.


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