# hunter/english class question



## 1dog3cats17rodents (Dec 7, 2007)

What type of show? If it was a schooling or low rated show it doesn't matter that much. A higher rated show no way though


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## bloodhoundmom28 (Jun 1, 2009)

It was an open show that was held by n arab club it was a incentive program with high point given out this weekend for all the shows of this year. The sad part is the lady beat a girl that to me looked like she rode better and was dressed in proper attire. Am i wrong to think even in a open show you should dress and ride the part?


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## bloodhoundmom28 (Jun 1, 2009)

*pic*

here is the lady in question


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## cheply (Jul 27, 2009)

Hahaha she looks a little ridiculous. 
I believe flat hands are always a no no..



... but I am thankful to be able to wear half chaps. I just can't afford tall boots.


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## Lily of the Valley (Sep 27, 2009)

Um, who cares? My riding instructor has always told us she's not fond of the hunter world (she's a jumper at heart) because she doesn't like how prissy some of the people can tend to be. I figured that was just her perception, but you're fitting right into her stereotype. I'm pretty sure it's not a fashion show, so it really shouldn't matter if maybe someone finds men's show clothes more comfortable or if they can't afford tall boots or whatever else.


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## Ahsisi (Apr 13, 2009)

I am a true believer that no matter how small/big the show is you always dress and ride the part.


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## Lily of the Valley (Sep 27, 2009)

Ahsisi said:


> I am a true believer that no matter how small/big the show is you always dress and ride the part.


Then you always dress and ride the part. If that's how you feel, then do it. But if that's not how others feel, then no big deal.


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## bloodhoundmom28 (Jun 1, 2009)

*prissy???*



Lily of the Valley said:


> Um, who cares? My riding instructor has always told us she's not fond of the hunter world (she's a jumper at heart) because she doesn't like how prissy some of the people can tend to be. I figured that was just her perception, but you're fitting right into her stereotype. I'm pretty sure it's not a fashion show, so it really shouldn't matter if maybe someone finds men's show clothes more comfortable or if they can't afford tall boots or whatever else.



"My riding instructor has always told us she's not fond of the hunter world (she's a jumper at heart) because she doesn't like how prissy some of the people can tend to be"

perhaps she couldnt make it in the "prissy" world? sloppy legs? flat hands? I really dont know and dont care.

My question was to attain what was allowed so i would know what my daughter and myself could start out with when I find a new horse that can perform this particular discipline. As to the half chaps i dont find fault in wearing them to the lower lvl shows nor to the schooling shows. I to think that you should at least try to dress the part i mean a mans neck tie???? at least get a nice pin instead....... 

Thank you to the people that answered in a constructive way


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## cheply (Jul 27, 2009)

I think its more of a tradition thing and thats why people want a strict dresscode. The hunt uniform has been around a long time and now people are changing it... as apposed to upholding the traditional clothing.

Most traditions today... not just with horse back riding .. seem to be going out the window.


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## bloodhoundmom28 (Jun 1, 2009)

I agree that traditions are no longer being followed. Its not a bad thing in some cases. I must just be old /sigh


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## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

When you go to shows I'm a pretty firm believer of looking the part. You want the judge to look at you as you enter the ring and see you as a serious competitor who came in to win. You wouldn't walk into a job interview wearing a holey tshirt and dirty jeans, right? To me, a show is the same thing. You come in looking your best. 

THAT BEING SAID... is there a chance this lady didn't know what she was doing and didn't have anyone to tell her?? Seriously, how many posts have there been on this forum that have started, "what should I wear to a show?" TONS! I think the dress shirt/tie thing is kind of wierd... but maybe the rubber boots was all she had. And unless from day 1 you had perfect equitation I think you should give people a break for not being in the perfect position.


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## kchfuller (Feb 1, 2008)

i am not old (only 25- i don't think thats old) and I agree with having the RIGHT attire for the show. I understand if you can't afford the best or everything but you should do what you can to get what is appropriate(half chaps with matching boots are ok with me at a schooling show). I have ALWAYS been taught that hunters is "painting the perfect picture of the judge" ... anywho just my two cents


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## HeartMyOTTB (Aug 13, 2009)

kchfuller said:


> i am not old (only 25- i don't think thats old) and I agree with having the RIGHT attire for the show. I understand if you can't afford the best or everything but you should do what you can to get what is appropriate(half chaps with matching boots are ok with me at a schooling show). I have ALWAYS been taught that hunters is "painting the perfect picture of the judge" ... anywho just my two cents


 
I am right there with you! I am 27 and have been riding Hunters since I was a child. And as UpnOver said, you wouldn't go to a job interview in frumpy clothes either. Part of being in a Hunter show is dressing for success. I have a few friends at my barn that ride other diciplines and they all say that they would never do hunters because its so "picky" and "prissy." But I like it! I like getting dressed up to look as prepared as I have prepared my horse. Its a package deal. 

In fact, one of my friends that had nothing good to say about Hunter's wants to do it now! The tradition is very appealing! But to each their own...


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## sillybunny11486 (Oct 2, 2009)

I sure as hell wont go to work in my pajamas... for somepeople showing is their job. Isnt it embaressing to dress like a slob at a show? In what discpline of riding is it actually acceptable to do so?? I dont think any. I am just wondering what kinds of shows person rides in that says who cares?. Ive never been to a schooling show jackets were optional, unless it was like 100 degrees.


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## cheply (Jul 27, 2009)

Yes I can see where people are coming from when they have the preception of "snobby hunt shows" ect. But like HeartmyOTTB said.. I kindof enjoy it. I have never been to a show myself.. But when I am finally ready, I am excited to get all dressed up in the 'uniform' and be picture perfect. Its kindof like getting ready for a night out.. or say.. like getting ready for your first day of highschool.. and wearing your very best most pristine clothes.

It feels good to look nice, and if expecting people to wear the traditional clothes to a show is snobby, I wanna be a snob! hahahha :lol:

I'm not saying people should go drop copious amounts of money on show clothes..Just do what you can afford. but dress appropriately.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> In what discpline of riding is it actually acceptable to do so??


Trail riding. Mounted games. Campdrafting. Endurance. 

I HATE open shows. I detest that people/horses are judged on appearance as much as riding ability. I hate that it panders to the rich, and those who don't train their own horses but pay others to do it for them. I still show occasionally, but I do it on my terms. I recently rode at our zone showriding competition in my ASH get up. Got a few odd looks but still placed well. It should be about how you ride, not about how you look.

That's the reason I gravitate toward things like MG and sporting (only judged by a stopwatch) Campdrafting (judged on how you ride and work your cow) Polocrosse (the score) etc. Clean cut.

The only showing I am interested in is ASH shows, because they have reasonable expectations. Simple dress code, and they mention in the rulebook that NEW and EXPENSIVE gear often looks tacky and older, well cared for gear looks better.


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## horsequeen373 (Oct 4, 2009)

That is what most people go by but in hunters each judge has a different opinion so you may do amazing in one show with that attire and "piano hands" as I call them because that judge for some odd reason found it good....don't know why anyone would think that though...


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Just thought i'd add. I am all for tradition... I was more ranting on the general nature of showing. Got a bit carried away, lol.


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## SFMoneyMarket (Sep 20, 2008)

Lily of the Valley said:


> Um, who cares? My riding instructor has always told us she's not fond of the hunter world (she's a jumper at heart) because she doesn't like how prissy some of the people can tend to be. I figured that was just her perception, but you're fitting right into her stereotype. I'm pretty sure it's not a fashion show, so it really shouldn't matter if maybe someone finds men's show clothes more comfortable or if they can't afford tall boots or whatever else.


For the people that actually care about the sport, that is insulting. I ride hunter jumpers. Why would you play soccer if you have a football? If you are going to ride in a hunter jumper competition, then you should be wearing the attire that is fitting to the discipline. That just makes no sense to me. She's not fitting into a "stereotype", that's just the way hunter jumpers is. If you don't like it, find a different discipline.

To answer the OP's question, no I don't think wearing unproper attire at a show is acceptable. It clearly states in the arabian horse rulebook and any other rulebook what the rider should be wearing, so unless the rulebooks say that outfit is acceptable, than it's simply not. In open and schooling shows some may allow half chaps and rubber field boots, but definatley not at an A rated horse show.


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## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

horsequeen373 said:


> That is what most people go by but in hunters each judge has a different opinion so you may do amazing in one show with that attire and "piano hands" as I call them because that judge for some odd reason found it good....don't know why anyone would think that though...



Well technically hunters are based on the horse, not the rider. So if a horse goes around and has a nice course or moves well on the flat chances are it's going to get a good ribbon regardless of position faults from the rider. Remember too its based on what the judge sees in comparison to everyone else. Maybe the judge hated to pin her as first (or whatever) looking the way she did but no one else did better. 

And this may be getting off topic but I have to say... I often hear on this forum the idea that hunter judging is based on nothing but opinion, as if it's just a whim of what he/she liked that day or something. PICK UP A BOOK CALLED "JUDGING HUNTERS AND HUNTER SEAT EQUITATION" BY JANE WHITE-MULLIN. Despite what some people may think, the judges don't just point to the shiny bay and decide it's prettier then everyone else. Every round is given a numerical score out of 100 and most judges would describe a course in the 70s, 80's, 90's pretty similarly. Yes, some judges will think that getting the lead change is more important then 8 perfect distances and others will think vice versa. But either way, you knock a rail down and your score is an automatic 50. Go to quality shows with reputable judges and you'll find that judging is a _lot_ more consistent then you'd think. 
*gets off her soapbox and returns to original topic*


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## HeartMyOTTB (Aug 13, 2009)

wild_spot said:


> Trail riding. Mounted games. Campdrafting. Endurance.
> 
> I HATE open shows. I detest that people/horses are judged on appearance as much as riding ability. I hate that it panders to the rich, and those who don't train their own horses but pay others to do it for them. I still show occasionally, but I do it on my terms. I recently rode at our zone showriding competition in my ASH get up. Got a few odd looks but still placed well. It should be about how you ride, not about how you look.


I want to say first that I know you are speaking about one part of showing and that you know not everyone falls into the stereotypes you are condemning above. I get that. So please don't think I'm arguing. I just want to comment. 

But I do want to take a second to say that I have been riding since I was 7. Getting to take a lesson every 1 - 2 weeks before I could afford my own leases. I bought my horse a year ago when I was 26, out of college, and paying my own bills. It took my 19 years to get my own horse. And I bought an OTTB (clearly) and have been training him with the assistance of a trainer. Not solely by a trainer. I didn't think I would show again, but got the bug as soon as the season hit. And bought the appropriate clothes to look my best.

I don't like seeing kids who's mommy's bought their tall boots and paid their USEF fees, but I don't resent them for having what I didnt. Thats not fair. So I guess what Im saying, in a long winded manner, is that everyone is held to the same standard despite how rich you are. And I am sure there are plenty of people out there like me who didn't show until they saved up enough money to have the clothes they feel good in.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> I want to say first that I know you are speaking about one part of showing and that you know not everyone falls into the stereotypes you are condemning above. I get that. So please don't think I'm arguing. I just want to comment.
> 
> But I do want to take a second to say that I have been riding since I was 7. Getting to take a lesson every 1 - 2 weeks before I could afford my own leases. I bought my horse a year ago when I was 26, out of college, and paying my own bills. It took my 19 years to get my own horse. And I bought an OTTB (clearly) and have been training him with the assistance of a trainer. Not solely by a trainer. I didn't think I would show again, but got the bug as soon as the season hit. And bought the appropriate clothes to look my best.
> 
> I don't like seeing kids who's mommy's bought their tall boots and paid their USEF fees, but I don't resent them for having what I didnt. Thats not fair. So I guess what Im saying, in a long winded manner, is that everyone is held to the same standard despite how rich you are. And I am sure there are plenty of people out there like me who didn't show until they saved up enough money to have the clothes they feel good in.


Yeah, I do know that :] And it's all good, I love a healthy debate.

I don't really get mad at the people who's parents buy them things that mine couldn't. I get mad at the ones who use that as an excuse to not put in any work. I.e. Buy a finished show horse, get someone else to ride it, someone else to groom it, and just hop on up for the show and collect a few ribbons. I worked so hard to get my ay-rab to stop star-gazing, to relax and collect, to be soft and supple, to get reliable lengthening and immediate changes... And to get railroaded by people who used money as a substitute for good riding would crush me. If they earned the ribbon? Sure. No problem.

I have an amazing little arab that I did everything on. But there is such prejudice against arabs in the showing world, at least in AUS. He was the world to me but judges didnt think so. He would not put a foot wrong, yet I never once won a champion ribbon on him, despite some amazing workouts and many expereinced opinions that he should have won. I got reserve champion arab in the arab ring because, wait for it: The other horse had better movement due to it's NON-arab half, being a derivative. How you can place the derivative over the arab because of it's non-arab traits in the arab ring is beyond me.

^ That's the gripe I have about showing. The political side... The fact that personal opinion plays into the judging. I would actually quite enjoy showing if there were no judges :]

* Now I am a bit of a hypocrite as I am dipping my toes back into the showing world, albeit the ASH shows are a bit different... (National show this weekend, and definately cr*pping myself that my horse will look scruffy, tack isn't fancy enough, etc...).


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

^ Lol, that reads very jumbled. I added bits after I thought I finished!


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## 1dog3cats17rodents (Dec 7, 2007)

For all the people always saying that the hunter world is too political, it's all based on the judge's opinion, ect. What about dressage? How is it any different for a dressage judge than a hunter judge?


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## 1dog3cats17rodents (Dec 7, 2007)

wild_spot said:


> I don't really get mad at the people who's parents buy them things that mine couldn't. I get mad at the ones who use that as an excuse to not put in any work. I.e. Buy a finished show horse, get someone else to ride it, someone else to groom it, and just hop on up for the show and collect a few ribbons.


So a person whose trainer rides their horse doesn't "earn" a ribbon? Last time I checked, it's the kid riding, not the trainer in the class. Perhaps the kid or horse gets nervous at shows and the trainer is schooling. Or the horse is green and again, the trainer is schooling. And what's wrong with someone else grooming? I pay someone to braid my horse. Does that make me less of a rider? What's wrong with buying a "finished" horse? Some people prefer training, some don't. If you can afford it, there's nothing wrong with getting the best horse you can afford. If that's a young horse, great, you can grow together. If that's a "finished" horse, great, you can work on yourself and "polish" the horse. As for "hopping on" and getting the ribbons, be aware what you see at shows is not the big picture. Many kids at my barn (including me) hire a professional to ride at shows, but do all the riding at home. One family has two top ponies per kid, hirses a groom at BIG shows, and they still work HARD to improve their ponies and themselves at homes. Yes they want to get the points and qualify. But why is that wrong to want to show how hard they have worked? Please, someone tell me why it is wrong to use every "tool" you posses to have a happy, well trained, gorgeous horse step into that ring with a confident rider. Becaus I just don't get it

Wow that was long, sorry, that has been bugging me for awhile. Money doesn't make a rider less of a rider. *takes deer breath*


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## kchfuller (Feb 1, 2008)

^^ i agree ... i didn't get my first horse till i was 24 and could afford it myself BUT i did a lot of showing when i was younger and rode other people horses and had the best trainers and grooms and even though my parents couldn't afford a horse, between me working, my grandma and parents i was able to have a great time showing with the best tools.


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## bloodhoundmom28 (Jun 1, 2009)

I really do want to say thank you to all that have posted it has helped me to not only be more prepared but a little more informed. It was a good show to watch and see the trends that are around right now. When i showed apps didnt place at all this show and one before that was all that placed.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> Wow that was long, sorry, that has been bugging me for awhile. Money doesn't make a rider less of a rider. *takes deer breath*


Omg, did you not read ANY of my post? I made sure to say that I don't resent poeple who have things I didn't. I resent people who use money as an excuse not to put in any work, not to improve, and just collect ribbons. If you are like that? Then yes, I think it is a cop out, and I think it is unfair.


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## Endless Journey Girl (Jun 10, 2009)

I think it depends on the barn holding the show too, some have higher standards than others. The one I went to this summer there were several girls just wearing a blouse or nice white shirt. Most of the girls also had either paddock boots and half chaps or rubber field boots (but you should at least clean them up.) However this show was during the summer, I'm pretty sure a show jacket is necessary at their shows normally but it was just too hot for anyone to wear one that day.


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## southerncowgirl93 (Feb 5, 2009)

wild_spot said:


> That's the gripe I have about showing. The political side... The fact that personal opinion plays into the judging.


It's like that in a lot of places. lol I completely understand what you mean.




HeartMyOTTB said:


> Part of being in a Hunter show is dressing for success.


I believe you should dress for success at any show. I do. :lol: 



wild_spot said:


> I resent people who use money as an excuse not to put in any work, not to improve, and just collect ribbons.


 I know people who do that. I don't like it very much, but I can't change it. Mainly what gets me though is the fact that they never ride the horse until the day of the show.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Maybe she's a saddle seat rider that thought they'd try a hunt show? I have no idea....

The rubber boots/half chaps I think are just a money issue. Field boots are really costly, I need a new pair too (mine are falling apart). I want the ones that zip in the back... *sigh*

cantering in a walk/trot class... I'm assuming she placed? Probably politics at work there...


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## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

farmpony84 said:


> cantering in a walk/trot class... I'm assuming she placed? Probably politics at work there...



Or the judge didn't have a clue. Schooling shows are where judges start out and rarely need any kind of license, or often, experience. I was talking to the gate person at a show once who informed me the judge had asked her before the show how to judge an undersaddle class AND how to tell if the rider was on the correct diagonal!!! (WHAT!?!?) The show management got a lot of complaints that day on the terrible judging and she hasn't been hired again since.


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## southerncowgirl93 (Feb 5, 2009)

upnover said:


> I was talking to the gate person at a show once who informed me the judge had asked her before the show how to judge an undersaddle class AND how to tell if the rider was on the correct diagonal!!! (WHAT!?!?) The show management got a lot of complaints that day on the terrible judging and she hasn't been hired again since.


That is sad. Funny in a way, but very sad.


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## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

yeah that was my thought as well. I mean, seriously, a diagonal?! sad thing was, the gate person had been highly involved in the show world for YEEEEARS and would have done a fantastic job judging.


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## TroubledTB (Jun 26, 2009)

I draw the line at rubber boots, if you can't afford a pair of used or cheap leather tall boots you probably shouldn't be wasting your money at a show. If you haven't invested in a pair of tall boots at the point of being ready to show then you aren't really prepared to show yet, plain and simple. I was a fairly broke kid/adult when it came to having the right equipment, I still only have ONE pair of show breeches, but I learned how to keep them clean for three days of showing. I rode sans hunt coat last itty bitty schooling show I went to because I was just trying to get the horse around for experience at cross rails. I lost my hunt coat I had as a junior but I had everything else and I didn't expect to even get a ribbon, though I did, but I noticed that I had placed decent over fences and I was last in the hack, probably because it was obvious everyone was wearing a coat but me, and I think the judge wanted me to know my horse did deserve a ribbon but couldn't place higher because of my lack of attire. Anyway, a day at a little open schooling show is at least 200$ and you can get a pair of tall boots for that, so rather than wasting the money on a day your aren't prepared for, even if its just in dress, you should buy yourself a pair of boots that will last 10 yrs and hundreds of shows.


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## HeartMyOTTB (Aug 13, 2009)

At a show this summer, the sole of one of my boots was coming apart. By the end, my shoe had a mouth! I felt like everyone knew it too. I am taking a break from showing this fall, but wanted to be prepared for late winter/spring shows, so when a pair of field boots at a local tack shop went on clearence, I snapped them up. The calf was to slim for me, so I had the leather stretched by the store. The alterations only cost me 45 dollars. Finding reasonable show clothes can be done! Take a drive to the area tack shops and look around. You'd be surprised what you find.


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## Endless Journey Girl (Jun 10, 2009)

TroubledTB said:


> I draw the line at rubber boots, if you can't afford a pair of used or cheap leather tall boots you probably shouldn't be wasting your money at a show. If you haven't invested in a pair of tall boots at the point of being ready to show then you aren't really prepared to show yet, plain and simple. I was a fairly broke kid/adult when it came to having the right equipment, I still only have ONE pair of show breeches, but I learned how to keep them clean for three days of showing. I rode sans hunt coat last itty bitty schooling show I went to because I was just trying to get the horse around for experience at cross rails. I lost my hunt coat I had as a junior but I had everything else and I didn't expect to even get a ribbon, though I did, but I noticed that I had placed decent over fences and I was last in the hack, probably because it was obvious everyone was wearing a coat but me, and I think the judge wanted me to know my horse did deserve a ribbon but couldn't place higher because of my lack of attire. Anyway, a day at a little open schooling show is at least 200$ and you can get a pair of tall boots for that, so rather than wasting the money on a day your aren't prepared for, even if its just in dress, you should buy yourself a pair of boots that will last 10 yrs and hundreds of shows.


I disagree, I don't think tall boots are required at a schooling show. A lot of people go to schooling shows to decide whether they like the competitive aspect of riding or not and get a feel for shows. Why would I spend $200 on a pair of tall boots I may only wear a couple times? (I'm much more comfortable in paddock boots and half chaps at home). Ok if your planning on doing a lot of shows or moving on to the competitive circuit in your area then yes investing in a pair of tall boots is a good idea, otherwise I'd much rather stick to rubber riding boots or paddock boots and half chaps.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> a day at a little open schooling show is at least 200$


Holy Moly!!!!!!!

I went to the *NATIONAL* ASH Youth Show last weekend, and the whole weekend, including the ring classes, challenge, campdraft, and camping, was only just over $100.


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## kchfuller (Feb 1, 2008)

there are many different barns and trainers out there ... so attire will differ as to who is determining what is "appropriate" ... all the schooling shows i have ever went to or go to ALWAYS insist on correct professional attire ... Maybe that is just the standards of CA? We are pretty competitive in the H/J world ...

also EJG .. once you have hit a point in your riding career where you get tall boots and get a pair that fit you right and are broken in- they are the most comfy things EVER.

Lastly i think with age we gain a respect and understanding for tradition. There is a certain way that is expected for you to dress and even when I take lessons, I dress to the part so that I am putting my best foot forward... so I think that when you pay for everything on your own and really own your riding career you strive to be the best you can including your appearance ... just a thought


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

HeartMyOTTB said:


> At a show this summer, the sole of one of my boots was coming apart. By the end, my shoe had a mouth! I felt like everyone knew it too. I am taking a break from showing this fall, but wanted to be prepared for late winter/spring shows, so when a pair of field boots at a local tack shop went on clearence, I snapped them up. The calf was to slim for me, so I had the leather stretched by the store. The alterations only cost me 45 dollars. Finding reasonable show clothes can be done! Take a drive to the area tack shops and look around. You'd be surprised what you find.


Yep, that's pretty much true for all show clothes, not just hunters. I don't ride hunters (as was mentioned earlier :wink but I'm interested in getting into it this winter, if nothing else but to keep gaining experience in the show circuit, even if hunters doesn't end up to be my thing in the long run. I went online and found a hunt coat on sale and ordered it right away, before I was even 100% sure I wanted to show (because as someone ALSO mentioned earlier in this thread, what I'd heard about hunters are a lot of the same things some others have said on here, the "stereotype" that many have about the discipline being stuck up and too political). 

Anyway, I went out and ordered one (had to get a different color since all I have was a black coat for dressage - my main discipline of choice so far has been Eventing), because I wanted to look the part for any hunter show I might do. I didn't want to show up in a black coat when I know that hunters are traditionally gray or navy. I'm not saying go out and buy a whole new wardrobe, but like HeartMyOTTB said the sales are out there, you just have to look for them. Looking the part is a part of the show itself. I know that in Eventing some may think it's not quite as "strict" as hunters, but really at the higher levels it has the same amount of "strictness" in the dress code.

I think lower level anything you can get away with more, but most don't want to, they want to look their best if nothing more but because it makes them feel more confident which will radiate out to the judge.


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