# Help deciding the color of this mare?



## Kyro (Apr 15, 2012)

In her pass, it is said she is 'gray'. 

Her sire is palomino with lots of pallys down the lane.. siresiresire is bay, but I doubt that changes anything. Siredamsire is roan. 
Her dam is gray - probably was bay before graying out. Has lots of bays in her line. 

She has a very distinct dorsal stripe. 


Any thoughts? I'm thinking..black + agouti + dun + maybe roan? She will probably gray out sometime though  


(Her sire is in that last picture)


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## Kyro (Apr 15, 2012)

Oh, or maybe a sooty buckskin instead? I don't see dun coming in anywhere in her pedigree.. so that seems more possible.


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

I would say buckskin going grey.
She can only be a dun if one of her parents was a dun, dorsal or none. Probably just countershading.
It would make sense for her dam to be a bay and her sire a palomino to create a buckskin. As for sooty, it's hard to say as she is greying out and that can do some funky things to their coats  You can see it in her face for certain.


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

Oh, and just re-reading - she would not be carrying roan either as roan, like dun is a dominant gene and dominant genes will not "hide"


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## Kyro (Apr 15, 2012)

Could the dorsal be part of her agouti gene? As in if she didn't have the cream gene to make her a buckskin, she would be a bay with a dorsal stripe (just indicating a primitive bay)?


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

Without cream, yes she would just be a bay. Countershading varies in degrees. Some bays have no countershading while others can have it so dark to the point that it genuinely does look like a dorsal stripe.
As for this mare, her dorsal could be caused just from darker countershading or the way she is greying. it's hard to say


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Do you have a better pic of her dorsal stripe?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

Looks to be a grey.

Would need one true roan parent to be a roan. Very pretty horse!


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## Tryst (Feb 8, 2012)

I am guessing smokey brown going gray. How old is she?


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

There is no way to tell what colour she is under the grey at this point, without a foal picture we will just be placing wild guesses. Grey usually darkens a horse before the process of going whiter, and most of the time it makes the base colour indistinguishable. As well as that, grey is notorious for mimicking other colours - it will often have a nice solid dorsal at some point, and lots of people will mistake greys at certain stages for roans and buckskins.


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## Kyro (Apr 15, 2012)

Finally! I found her breeder and managed to get a couple foal pictures of her  Maybe they help?


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Chiilaa said:


> There is no way to tell what colour she is under the grey at this point, without a foal picture we will just be placing wild guesses. Grey usually darkens a horse before the process of going whiter, and most of the time it makes the base colour indistinguishable. As well as that, grey is notorious for mimicking other colours - it will often have a nice solid dorsal at some point, and lots of people will mistake greys at certain stages for roans and buckskins.


Spoken like a true genius. Where is the other one? NDappy your presence is requested. 
Not that I doubt your wisdom Chillaa but I like to have two expert opinions . Shalom


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## wakiya (Feb 7, 2009)

OOh, she does look dun as a baby, but with no dun parent it's not possible. It may be a trick of the greying process.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

I am going to tentatively say dunskin going grey, possibly with roan as well. However, without testing, it is impossible to say for certain. Dam could be any colour under her grey, there is no way to tell from how dark they do. Even fairly light horses go dark before they grey out.


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## Kyro (Apr 15, 2012)

So she's possibly black + agouti + cream + dun + gray (+ maybe roan too)?


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Kyro said:


> So she's possibly black + agouti + cream + dun + gray (+ maybe roan too)?


I agree she was either a dunskin or a bay dun gone grey who maybe had roan.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Subbing. She is adorbs... It's crazy to see how much babies change xD


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## dressagebelle (May 13, 2009)

I have to chime in here about how much grey can change things. My Arab is grey. Her dam was grey, sire was bay with lots of bays, dams side had almost one grey parent per generation, never two in one generation, but a few generations had no greys. Most non greys in her pedigree were chestnut, so assuming that the greys had chestnut going on under the grey. My mare was extremely dark when I got her, black with dapples, black mane and tail, but I'm pretty sure she was bay when she was born. No foal pictures for help though. She had lightened up a LOT by the time I sold her, but had only started getting some flea bites on her face. 

Owner recently sent me pictures, and her flea bites are most definitely red, so anyone who sees her now may be tempted to say that she was chestnut at birth. It's amazing how much the grey mimics things, hides things, changes things, makes you keep questioning what color your horse is hiding under the grey. She was also born with two white socks, but you'd never know as all 4 hooves are definitely black, so no telltale white hooves to show which legs had socks. I only know about the socks because the breeder did fill out her paperwork when she was born to get her registered (but never sent it in), so some white on face, and two socks. 

Your horse is very cute! Just had to mention that. To me she looks like a buckskin as a baby.


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## Kyro (Apr 15, 2012)

That awkward moment when I try to explain to her owner what colour she might be (as has been speculated here - a dunskin with possible roan) and I can't form a proper sentence, because I realize we don't have a term for a dunskin in Estonia yet :lol: ah, just lovely. Here color genetics is fairly new you could say, very few people who know a thing or two about it - even less who have studied it. So I guess I have a mission now, haha, I need to go study genetics and come back innovating my country


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## roxynoodle (Mar 24, 2014)

I would call her grulla based on her current photos.


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