# Why you/your child didn’t get called back for lessons this year…



## MyBoySi (Dec 1, 2011)

well said. I can't count the number of times I could have happily strangled disrespectful teens/kids when I worked as a manager at a busy lesson barn.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

Such is life in the horse world. I don't blame you for not inviting them back, especially if you have a waiting list.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I avoided this thread for a couple days because I thought it was going to be a parent whining and wondering why their little darling was cut from a program.

I rarely allow newbies to ride with me on the ranch. They have to show some grit in other areas before I do. My list of reasons is similar to yours even not giving lessons. My personal "won't tolerates" is pretty long. 

My life with horses is 1) my life, and 2) my business. I have no time for any issues.

But put a kid in front of me with some of that "grit..." I will go to the end of the earth to get them horseback and living the life.


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Boots...... will you adopt me and my horse? We want to get out of almost-suburbia!! :lol: 

I don't tolerate (unless I'm desperate for cash) anyone who won't voluenteer to muck a stall as quick as they will to ride on the farm. I also don't tolerate disrespectful students and/or parents. 

I remember I was doing a lesson for a BM to a young(ish) student. Bout a quarter of the way through the kid pitched a fit because I wouldn't allow her to do a pattern or something. (It was something the BM did regularly and we were working on something else entirely. 

She pitched such a fit that I told her to dismount, undid her saddle and made her carry it (all 30lbs) back up the drive to the barn. She quit that same day! lol

I know my instructors would have (and did on one occasion) smack me for it so I consider it my duty to dole out more 'modern' *grr* forms of correction! :twisted:


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

I haven't ever really run into this issue with horses - I guess I have always been serious! 

However, I've run into a sort of similar attitude at university, of all places. In the last year of my undergrad I acted as a student mentor, helped with some events around campus etc. 

I've sat in on classes and had first year students publicly challenging their lecturers as to why they should have to read a minimum of six sources for a particular essay, because apparently it takes too long to read that. Or even later year students upset about an 80% attendance rule, and not accepting that if they took four weeks off in term to go overseas they would fail. Why should they pass for doing less?

Even in my current masters course I was shocked when people were complaining about the workload of one horse, and were unwilling to do the practical component. Their response, "we have mortgages, we shouldn't have to do placements". 

It seems that our society is becoming more and more entitled. People think they should have academic success, or sporting success and improvement without putting the time in. 

I just want to turn to people and say, sacrifice is needed for success. Prioritise what you want and excel at that. Anything less is often just a waste of time.


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

I meant course not horse... you can see where my mind is!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Chasin Ponies; 

you sound like a very organized and business like teacher, who can impart good values to the students. do you also raise your own children?


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

I'm probably the polar opposite when it comes to lessons.
Wait, I did charge one kid a penny every time I had to tell her to switch diagonals. It had to be her own money & I greedily took it at the next lesson. Wasn't long before that kid never blew a diagonal...still doesn't. I miss those pennies.


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## Chasin Ponies (Dec 25, 2013)

tinyliny said:


> Chasin Ponies;
> 
> you sound like a very organized and business like teacher, who can impart good values to the students. do you also raise your own children?


Yes and drawing that line in the sand which cannot be crossed worked wonders!


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

I stood in when my trainer was ill for three weeks; his other half said she didn;t have the nerves for teaching the kids.

I had one that questioned EVERYTHING. I called her why-bird. Why do I have to do it Why can't I do this Why is it so hard. I stuck with it.

I then had a 15 year old girl who had been pushed, spoiled and was down right nasty. She lost her temper with MY horse. This horse was exceptional, you could put kids, adults, disabled persons on him.. he'd do exactly what was asked.. but if you didn't ask right, you didn't get. She whipped him so hard he bucked.. completely unheard of. I shouted at her to get off the horse, and get off the yard. I was in tears. Its very rare that someone upsets me that much, but there was absolutely no need to get after the horse in that manner. Her mother came on to the yard screeching like a banshee. My trainer's other half came over and told her to take her business elsewhere. I was thankful she stood by me, as technically they weren't my clients.

I have learned one thing, however. Never teach family. I still love my sister, and she loves me.. but it was a close call


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Chasin Ponies said:


> Yes and drawing that line in the sand which cannot be crossed worked wonders!


Isn't that the gospel truth!

I had five rules, when I was raising my son and by gosh, I stuck to them. His friends knew when they came to visit, it was "my house my rules, if you don't like it, don't come over"

I have trained my horses the same way. Trained the neighbor's loving but ill-mannered Lab that way. that dog is really smart but her humans just let her do whatever; it's amazing what she remembers when she comes over here. 

There is waaaay to much expectation of unearned entitlement in today's world. I would say this entire thread should be printed, enlarged and nailed in plain sight at every lesson barn. But, alas, the people that NEED to read it won't, as they are the ones that wouldn't see themselves.

I tip my hat to the OP for having continued patience, I have zip, zero, nada for the type of people you won't be inviting back.

you sound like someone I would like to take lessons from:iagree:


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

I don't think I'd want to take lessons with you. 

Yes drawing a line in the sand is fine but as much as I love horses they are not the center of the universe, academic studies (homework etc) do have to come first as most people have to actualy work to pay for thier horses and that is so much easier to do if you have a decent education, other sports or activities can lead to scholarships at specialist schools/colleges/unis and hence better careers (and more money to pay for the horses/lessons), horses just don't so yes unfortunately whilst some kids may be passionate about horses other more important things get in the way and attitudes like yours are the reason these kids leave horses and don't come back. People dont often go back into situations where they have bad experiences in the past.

I've had horses all my life, they are my passion, I've taught and still do the odd bit of teaching, I brake my own youngsters and produce horses for the show ring, I cant last 2 weeks without a horse, I actualy get withdrawl symptoms!

However 12 years ago you could have drawn all the lines in the sand you wanted about jumping I would not have done it! I had an accident, It shook me to my core and left me with permanent injury to my spine. No force on earth would have made me jump a horse, you could have cut me from your lessons, sold the horse etc but there was no way on earth I would have jumped and i do think that at that stage had someone cut me from a lesson series it would likely have crushed the last shreds of confidence that I did have and I may have given up entirely.
It also seriously knocked my confidence riding horses I don't know so you putting me on an unknown, more difficult horse even if you thought I was ready probably would have put me into a flat spin panic! I needed to know and trust the horses I was riding and get over it in my own time, it needed to be me who asked for the more difficult horse.

I've worked through it with my instructors (several of, I go to what ever instructor is better for the issue I'm having at that point in time), Lessons have been sporadic sometimes 5 in 1 week, sometimes non for 3 months. I've got to the stage where I am now a qualified ride judge, (for those that dont know in the UK show ring horses are ridden by the judge to assess thier schooling way of going and manners) and can sometimes ride over 100 unfamiliar horses (only thing you are allowed to ask is the horses age) in one day without being too worried. However I've only just started thinking about jumping again and only because I have the most wonderful trust worthy little horse (who I broke myself!).


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

Faye, there's a huge difference between having to miss the occasional lesson because of school reasons and blowing them off for other activities. Either way, if a trainer has other clients willing to take the spot that you frequently miss for whatever reason it makes lots more sense financially to take on that client. I've also known way more kids with devoted trainers and nice horses that simply lost interest and left the sport rather than those pushed away by bad experiences. I am certain it does happen sometimes, but it's an unfortunate reality of kids and horses. 

Not everyone that rides needs to jump. I ride English and don't jump, not because of s fear but because it simply doesn't appeal to me. Any trainer that forces you to jump when you are not comfortable after an accident does not sound very decent or understanding. 

However, not all students are compatible with a trainers. It's a business for many people, so they can't keep the spots available for one student to have several lessons in one week and then sit out for a few weeks. It's the reason why I didn't take lessons when I was in undergrad. My schedule was so sporadic that there was no way I could commit to a weekly lesson. Recently I had been taking lessons with a trainer who is very relaxed about his schedule. Sends out a weekly email about lessons, first come first serve time slots. If I want to have a lesson every week (I couldn't justify more frequently) for two months that's fine. Times when I couldn't make a lesson for several weeks was fine, and we picked up where we left off. It works for all of us, but it's not something I expect from most trainers c
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

When teaching kids, I kept it to 12 and under. The rules were, if you forgot any of your equipment, was rude to anyone including the parent who bro't you here, you get barn chores and no lesson. Parent had to agree. They had an alternative. Barn chores might include mucking, learning how to clean a saddle, etc so not time wasted but well spent and effective. Not fair to make kids chose between riding and school sports. The schools and classmates put a lot of pressure on kids to be on the team. Why discourage parents from buying their own horse and showing. Why do you need to be there at whatever you charge. It's not your horse and if they wish to go and make mistakes, that's their learning curve. No coach ever accompanied me and we did ok because I didn't have any external pressure. When people have asked about purchasing I give them a written list of expenses , possible expenses, beyond the purchase price, the whole picture and let them decide. As for a parent living vicariously thro a child, we all get those and you can only try to make it a pleasant experience for the child.


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## BreezylBeezyl (Mar 25, 2014)

Love this thread.

I think a lot of adults and children alike do not realize the dedication and discipline the Equestrian sport takes. I played all kind of sports competitively when I was in school; soccer, volleyball, badminton, basketball, you name it. None of these sports are even comparable to Equestrian unless you have serious ambitions to become a professional athlete.

That being said, I've seen this very same thing happen with my step-sister about two years ago. I was 21 and she was 11. As an adult I was taking no sports at the time and had dreams about riding since I was her age - I was dedicated and persistent, and ready for the sport. My heart was in it. But for her it was another activity that after a while, wore out its charm. She is a competitive dancer and loves to dance, and wanted to continue to dance, so her mother forced her to pull out of riding. She just did not show the same dedication for riding as she did for dancing.

Riding horses is a SPORT and is very competitive, if your dream is to start competing. I think most parents and even children do not realize this. Instead horseback riding is looked at as a hobby, and not a sport.

Trainers and instructors work their entire lives to build up the credentials to be able to teach well. They go through blood, sweat, and tears and have several shows under their belt. They have competed and seen successes and failures and are ready to teach the younger generation their tips and tricks... Just like a high school or college basketball coach. But they get continually pushed aside because riding is a _hobby _and not a sport, at least in the view of most people unfamiliar with the horse world.

I feel for instructors, I really do. To invest your time and effort into coaching a student, only for them to turn around and make you the second choice. I've seen it happen a lot.

EDIT: You can pursue horseback riding without ever showing or competing, but I think at that point is is absolutely fair for a competitive coach or instructor to make the decision to place you on the lower priority list. Either find a barn that is not a show barn, or consider getting more serious. This way no one's time is wasted!


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## DreaMy (Jul 1, 2014)

natisha said:


> I'm probably the polar opposite when it comes to lessons.
> Wait, I did charge one kid a penny every time I had to tell her to switch diagonals. It had to be her own money & I greedily took it at the next lesson. Wasn't long before that kid never blew a diagonal...still doesn't. I miss those pennies.


That's cheap! My coach actually did this to one of her other students while I was riding. I had a good little chuckle until she looked over at me and said she was going to charge me _five dollars_ every time she had to tell me that my hands were droopy... and then I spent the next hour focused on my hands.


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## Chasin Ponies (Dec 25, 2013)

Yes, it's funny that my kids are constantly writing essays in school to try to explain that riding IS a sport. Anyone who doubts it needs to jump on a 1000lb animal with a mind of it's own and try it! And it's a lifestyle that they can keep in their lives forever unlike volleyball, basketball etc. How many grown women actually continue those popular ball sports in their adulthood unless they are super athletes and go pro?


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

As the mom of a horse-crazy 10 year old who is also a little horse crazy herself, I applaud the OP for having high standards. To me, this means you care more about horses and the sport than about making money. 

My daughter has ridden at four barns (plus another one for a summer camp) over the last four years. Sometimes we made the choice to move on, sometimes we got tired of a disorganized coach constantly being late or rescheduling lessons. Maybe she didn't think my daughter was a good enough rider and didn't want to waste her time, but I wish she'd just said so if that was the case. Funny thing is, my daughter found an amazing (and demanding!) coach who pushes her hard and she is progressing like never before! She loves the challenges and has just started jumping.

Teaching a child that when you commit to something, you need to follow through, is an important lifelong lesson. Regrettably, most parents don't seem to realize this. I am a university professor and cannot believe the excuses students come up with. They have clearly spent their whole lives thinking it's ok to cop out of something if you don't really feel like doing it that day. Or if they didn't sleep so well the night before. Or if their friends invited them out to do something more fun. I completely blame the parents. I see them pulling their kids out of school at lunch on a Friday to go skiing. Or taking them out of school for a week to go to Disneyworld. As a result, I have twenty-year olds who casually inform me they will be taking two weeks off for Spring break instead of the designated week. I tell them they are adults and can do what they want, but that they will have to accept the consequences. And then they come back at the end of the term asking me why they didn't get all their participation points. Sigh... I honestly don't know how some of these kids are ever going to hold down a job.

No matter what it is, kids need to be taught that they either commit or move on. Other than horseback riding, my daughter also does track and field, takes dance, and art lessons. But she has never missed a riding lesson unless we are out of town for a vacation or she was sick (I think that's happened maybe twice in the last 6 months and my daughter rides twice a week). And I give the coach plenty of advance notice if this happens so she can fill the slot. 

I like the pennies story... my daughter's coach makes her bring her a chocolate bar at the next lesson if she forgets to look up!  

Oh, and we probably are not ever going to compete seriously. But that doesn't mean she shouldn't learn to ride to the best of her ability and dedicate herself to it fully! Most kids don't become professional athletes when they grow up, but coaches still expect them to give 110%! We are, however, planning on getting horses in the next year or so and that will also require a level of commitment that most kids her age do not have to meet. Personally, I think it will serve her well in life to learn the rewards of commitment early on.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Interesting. Didn't know that volleyball was still that popular, but speaking of that their VBall coach won't tolerate forgotten equipment, or late to the practice, or whining. There is ALWAYS another playing vying for your spot...and you get to see your competition in class, too.
Congratulations that your lesson program is thriving! I didn't have lessons of more than 5 at a time, but I only had one student who shouldn't have been there. My friend runs her own piano pedagogy studio, and she, too, has a waiting list. She nudges students out that either have too many competing activities going that interfere with practice, or lose interest.
*I KNOW that it's hindsight,* but the idea of someone whipping by best babysitter horse to bucking turns my stomach. Those are the horses worth their weight in gold.
In my current business, my attitude has become, "most anything is possible, and some things cost a lot more." I think it's pretty stupid to throw away money on lessons that your don't take, but I taught outside in the elements and had to reschedule because of weather. DON'T do makeup lessons! My piano professor didn't accommodate anybody who missed, and you don't need too, either.
Perhaps your policy for no shows needs to be incorporated into your signed paperwork before the lessons start. Chronically missed lessons indicate loss of interest. _"Perhaps, you need some time away from lessons for awhile, and I understand. Therefore, I will be filling your spot with someone on my waiting list."_ This is something that should be discussed up front, as it inevitably occurs in a program as large as yours.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

DuckDodgers said:


> .
> 
> However, not all students are compatible with a trainers. It's a business for many people, so they can't keep the spots available for one student to have several lessons in one week and then sit out for a few weeks. It's the reason why I didn't take lessons when I was in undergrad. My schedule was so sporadic that there was no way I could commit to a weekly lesson. Recently I had been taking lessons with a trainer who is very relaxed about his schedule. Sends out a weekly email about lessons, first come first serve time slots. If I want to have a lesson every week (I couldn't justify more frequently) for two months that's fine. Times when I couldn't make a lesson for several weeks was fine, and we picked up where we left off. It works for all of us, but it's not something I expect from most trainers c
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yet I won't use any instructor who insists on weekly lessons, 1) its my money and I'll spend it on the instructor I will get the most from each week, 2) weekly lessons can actualy make horses sour particularly young ones like mine, I want to be able to give him a week or 2 off when needed for his mental stability and 3) weekly lessons would interfere with my competition schedule which in summer is normaly very random and sporadic and can include shows on the tuesday and saturday of one week and then non for the next 2 weeks, or could be a week long show followed by 2 weeks of rest for my horse because I think he needs it to unwind or Heck I've even done 2 shows in one day this year!

I've only ever come accross one instructor who insisted on weekly lessons, and she was struggling to get clients. Says a lot i think!

with all That said I am very flexible with the times I can do lessons and have in the past done a lesson at 9pm at night because my instructor couldnt fit me in at any other time, I'm also quite happy for my instructor to rearrange at short notice if something crops up in my instructors life that requires a cancellation (last time I had to rearrange as instructors maiden mare started foaling about an hour before my lesson)



WillowNightwind said:


> EDIT: You can pursue horseback riding without ever showing or competing, but I think at that point is is absolutely fair for a competitive coach or instructor to make the decision to place you on the lower priority list. Either find a barn that is not a show barn, or consider getting more serious. This way no one's time is wasted!


I feel this is aimed at me

I show and compete at a fairly high level, I have ridden competitive Medium level tests (3rd level in the US?) and had decent results, I am currently attempting to qualify my horse for the Horse of the Year show which is the most prestigious and hard to qualify for show in the UK, in my class there are a maximum of 17 horses in the entire UK who will qualify (1st qualifys, if 1st already qualified the qualification passes to 2nd, if 1st and 2nd already qualified the qualification is lost so you could end up with on 10 horses at HOYS and so far this year the smalles HOYS qualifier has had 26 horses in it!) My horse and I qualified for the CHAPS national championships on our first outing of the year and last year when he had only been broken for 5 months we placed in every class at national champs (often 15+ horses in the class and they only place to 6th)

So yes I'm competitive but my instructors MUST be flexible and accept that sometime I will go for weeks between lessons and then have several in short period of time to work on a particular issue or just before a show like national champs to polish us up, I dont expect to be placed on a lower priority list, my money is just as good as anyone elses.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

I don't teach lessons,I manage a private stable, and mostly give pony rides. When the owners kids or their guests walk into "my" barn, my pet peeve is when they say it smells. 

My standard response is, "You better leave then" and I walk them to the door. I tell them they can come back when the smell doesn't bother them anymore. They always come back, then they are last in line for rides or pets or to help me feed, whatever fun thing we are doing that day.


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

Acadianartist said:


> As the mom of a horse-crazy 10 year old who is also a little horse crazy herself, I applaud the OP for having high standards. To me, this means you care more about horses and the sport than about making money.


I wouldn't necessarily say that. If there is a waiting list of interested students it absolutely makes sense financially to move on from those that are flaky to the ones that are willing to commit. 

That's not to say that she isn't more into it because she cares more about horses and the sport, but it absolutely does make financial sense to move on to the more interested parties if there's a waiting list! No money lost from missed lessons, more revenue if they're interested in showing, etc...



Corporal said:


> Interesting. Didn't know that volleyball was still that popular, but speaking of that their VBall coach won't tolerate forgotten equipment, or late to the practice, or whining. There is ALWAYS another playing vying for your spot...and you get to see your competition in class, too.
> Congratulations that your lesson program is thriving! I didn't have lessons of more than 5 at a time, but I only had one student who shouldn't have been there. My friend runs her own piano pedagogy studio, and she, too, has a waiting list. She nudges students out that either have too many competing activities going that interfere with practice, or lose interest.
> *I KNOW that it's hindsight,* but the idea of someone whipping by best babysitter horse to bucking turns my stomach. Those are the horses worth their weight in gold.
> In my current business, my attitude has become, "most anything is possible, and some things cost a lot more." I think it's pretty stupid to throw away money on lessons that your don't take, but I taught outside in the elements and had to reschedule because of weather. DON'T do makeup lessons! My piano professor didn't accommodate anybody who missed, and you don't need too, either.
> Perhaps your policy for no shows needs to be incorporated into your signed paperwork before the lessons start. Chronically missed lessons indicate loss of interest. _"Perhaps, you need some time away from lessons for awhile, and I understand. Therefore, I will be filling your spot with someone on my waiting list."_ This is something that should be discussed up front, as it inevitably occurs in a program as large as yours.


Most trainers I know have learned the hard way about not doing makeup lessons. I understand that everyone may have to cancel once in awhile due to situations beyond their control (a lame horse, rider illness, stuff like that) but with my old trainer you only got a couple of those passes and reschedules. After that you were required to prepay for lessons and if you didn't cancel within a certain window of time you didn't get a lesson. 

This happened more often than you'd think with the stay-at-home adult women at my old barn who are quite serious about horses, but simply think their time is more valuable than the trainer's. They compete, ride most every day, do the best/buy the best for their horses, but when they decide to flit out of town at the drop of the hat don't realize that they're putting the trainer in a bad position of losing money. These women were outraged when the trainer instilled the cancellation policy and they actually did have their lessons cancelled with no refund! However, they did quickly adjust and learned to be much more considerate.


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

I was teaching a small group of children that were all cantering well and I had asked them to do a figure eight with a simple lead change. One girl who was very capable of picking up a canter along the rail totally messed up the figure eight by not paying attention to what she was doing. When I asked her to try it for the third time she said I had BETTER stop yelling at her (which I wasn't), that she knew very well how to pick up a canter, and the STUPID horse won't do it. I asked her to dismount, I got on the horse and demonstrated a simple change and a flying change. I told the class that no one expects them to do something perfectly because they are learning but I never want to hear anyone blame a horse when they are not asking correctly. I put the girl back on the horse and told her to try it again to which she replied "NO". I ignored her for the rest of the lesson and when it was over I told her not to come back until her attitude changed. I never saw her again


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