# What bit for a very sensitive horse?



## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

It is hard to say if you have never tried a bit on him, I would start with something simple and see how he does and adjust from there.


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## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

What are the least harshest bits? I don't want anything single jointed so probably French link or something along those lines? Is a happy mouth considered a really soft bit or am i better off going with a rubber bit? I have a rubber D ring snaffle
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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I don't like rubber or happy mouths. Horses chew on them too much and they are bulky, which bothers me. 

I guess the main question is too, what are you showing in? English, western, and what classes? Also, how old is this horse?


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## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

He's 12 and I want to show in both. Probably would only be English flat classes and western pleasure.
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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

Do you need a curb for western pleasure?

For English I would start in something like an egg-butt french link and see how he goes in that. 

If you must have a curb for western pleasure - maybe something like this? Western SS Low Port Futurity Bit - Horse.com

If you can use a snaffle for WP maybe try a D-ring w/ either a french link or copper roller.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Before you start him in any bit, train him to take one. I learn this from Ryan Gingerich, and this is how he starts his colts to take a bit.
Get a cotton lead. Hook the snap to the lead ~ the measure for a bridle WITH a bit. You do NOT put the snap in the horse's mouth, but you use approach and retreat to "bridle" him with the rope. He won't find it offensive. You can teach him to open his mouth for this "bit", and to release it when you unbridle. If he has ANY problems with bridling with the hackamore, here's your chance to fix them. He should always lower his head and tip it towards you. When you are satisfied that he'll take the bit, practice with JUST the headstall and bit, sans reins.
I know most people prefer a french link or a Dr. Bristol to a plan link snaffle, but you may have to go through the bits and some$ to find the one he likes, and bits are PRICEY. I would suggest, at LEAST for the bit training, to buy the cheapest, plain loose-ring or egg butt snaffle, probably made out of plated nickel. that you can find. It might end up being the perfect bit for him...or not...but you won't be out that much$.
Just looked at SLT--they've got bits on sale (but it won't last as long as this post) =b
English Bits - Snaffle, Pelham, Curb & More - Statelinetack.com


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Cowgirls Boots said:


> What are the least harshest bits? I don't want anything single jointed so probably French link or something along those lines?_..._


My mare generally prefers a single jointed snaffle to a french link. She also tends to prefer something with a thinner mouthpiece than a thicker one - which may be why she prefers a single joint, since the french links I own are all thick. Yet most will tell you a single-joint snaffle with thinner mouthpieces is harsher than thick french links.

The "least harshest bits" are not some special category, where you can look at a shape or material and decide X is gentle but Y is harsh. Arguably, the gentlest bit is a spade bit in the mouth of a horse trained for it, but that normally requires years of training for both horse and rider. A rope halter can be very gentle with a horse who reliably responds to it, but harsh if the horse decides to ignore it and fight his rider.

If possible, borrow some bits until you find a style that your horse seems comfortable using. My mare likes copper rollers when that is an option. My gelding ignores them. I'm now using a curb with my mare because it seems to make sense to her, but the gelding is staying in a full-cheek snaffle.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Personally, the quietest bit I've ever found is a metal mullen mouth. It's great for direct or neck reining, and having no joints it's incredibly quiet. There's not much for a horse to get used to and the cues are very simple. 
The rubber ones are not ideal, they're often too big and many horses don't like that much in their mouth. Also, if it gets chewed up (as it always does) it leaves little sharp edges that can hurt their mouth. Which is why most horses prefer a metal one, a warm metal like copper or sweet iron would be most ideal.
If the horse has never worn a bit before I found wrapping a fruit roll up around the bit makes them really look forward to wearing one!!


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

bsms said:


> My mare generally prefers a single jointed snaffle to a french link. She also tends to prefer something with a thinner mouthpiece than a thicker one - which may be why she prefers a single joint, since the french links I own are all thick. Yet most will tell you a single-joint snaffle with thinner mouthpieces is harsher than thick french links.
> 
> The "least harshest bits" are not some special category, where you can look at a shape or material and decide X is gentle but Y is harsh. Arguably, the gentlest bit is a spade bit in the mouth of a horse trained for it, but that normally requires years of training for both horse and rider. A rope halter can be very gentle with a horse who reliably responds to it, but harsh if the horse decides to ignore it and fight his rider.
> 
> If possible, borrow some bits until you find a style that your horse seems comfortable using. My mare likes copper rollers when that is an option. My gelding ignores them. I'm now using a curb with my mare because it seems to make sense to her, but the gelding is staying in a full-cheek snaffle.


While you make some great points, I think, when comparing apples to apples with bits there are gentler and harsher bits. Comparing them just for what they are and how they work can tell you what's stronger or softer. Add leverage to any bit and you've made it a 'harsher' bit - which doesn't mean it's bad, it's designed for a particular job to be used in a particular way - but it's stronger than something without leverage (which is why we, the rider, can use smaller cues -- because the bit is stronger).

Apples to apples, you want a bit who's size fits comfortably in _your_ horse's mouth, not so big it squishes their tongue or blocks them from closing their mouth completely. But not so small that all the pressure is forced onto too a small amount of space.
The type of metal greatly affects a horse's comfort, warm metals like copper and sweet iron horses tend to prefer - while nickel (which is no longer used) will dry their mouth out fast, and stainless steel (often used now) is cold and not really desirable by most horses, but can be tolerable.
The basic rule of physics explains why twisted bits are harsher than smooth mouth bits, putting all the pressure over a smaller amount of space will increase the discomfort, rather than distributing the pressure with a smooth bit. 
Single joints vs. double joints vs. no joints are really up to the horse. Some horses like single joints, if the joint doesn't reach their pallet and the signals are clear because, when direct reining only the side you're touching is engaged - which makes communication very obvious. But often horses will learn to lean on a single jointed bit if their pallet is being hit, they'd rather push into the bit and gape their mouth (as much as their noseband will allow) and put all the pressure on their bars than to allow the point to hit their pallet. While double jointed bits can help prevent this for smaller mouthed or more sensitive horses. It can also be clear for direct reining because of the individual sides movement. But some horses don't want that much movement in their mouth, and potential pinching between the joints can bother their tongue. There are also Dr. Bristols which maybe double jointed, but the middle piece is designed to be stronger than any other middle piece. It's designed to face thin side into their tongue, again putting the pressure on a smaller area, this time effecting the tongue. The middle piece of a Dr. Bristol is also made wider so the joints land just about on a horse's bars, being much less comfortable than smaller middle pieces. A mullen mouth (with no joints) can be much less 'noise' in a horse's mouth, but can also be less clear because pulling one rein affects the entire mouth piece. Mullen mouths are my favorite "go to" bits for horses, I change from there based on their needs.

Every bit has a purpose, even harsher bits can be gentle when in the right hands, but comparing apples to apples based on their designs there are stronger and gentler bits.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I started my pinto in a Happy Mouth shaped mullen mouth bit as she refused to make any contact with any other bit and would either head flip or put her nose on her chest to avoid it. They are hardly any thicker than a normal metal mullen mouth. You do need to check them daily for signs of chewing but it wasn't something she ever did
I also have a loose ring snaffle with a tiny port in it that I've found many horses go well in. It looks similar to this but has a metal not rubber mouthpiece. I got it in the UK so don't know if they're available in the US
She was also hard to get a bit in her mouth and would clamp her teeth shut but I found smearing apple on the bit changed all of that - a bit messy but worth it


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

PunksTank said:


> While you make some great points, I think, when comparing apples to apples with bits there are gentler and harsher bits. Comparing them just for what they are and how they work can tell you what's stronger or softer. Add leverage to any bit and you've made it a 'harsher' bit - which doesn't mean it's bad, it's designed for a particular job to be used in a particular way - but it's stronger than something without leverage (which is why we, the rider, can use smaller cues -- because the bit is stronger)...


Obviously, if the rider applies 3 lbs of pressure on the rein, then a leverage bit will result in greater pressure in the mouth. However, leverage bits also apply pressure to the poll, which is outside the mouth. So as long as the rider adjusts his pull to account for the leverage, the leverage bit can use LESS pressure in the mouth, but get the same result because of the additional cuing OUTSIDE the mouth.

Same with a thinner mouthpiece. Yes, if the rider pulls the same, then a thinner mouthpiece will apply more PSI because the same pressure is going into a smaller area. However, if the horse responds to a given PSI on part of his mouth, then the thinner and thicker mouthpieces will get the same response at the same pressure on the flesh in the mouth. Thus the total force used with the thinner mouthpiece would be less (and require less pull on the rein), giving the same PSI pressure on the flesh. In that case, the thinner piece is no harsher than the thicker one. 

In fact, if the horse is inclined to disobey, then the thinner piece might result in obedience faster and thus less fight, damage and struggle than the thicker piece - just as a rope halter can result in a horse obeying better than a horse ridden in a web halter.

It goes back to the rider. If the question is, "How much pain will a 5 lb pull on the reins cause?", then one mouthpiece can be said to be harsher than another. If the question is, "How much pain will be caused to get a given response?", then the answer may be not harsher at all or even less.

Most of the analysis of bit harshness that I've seen assumes a constant pressure on the reins from a rider. A rider who rides like that shouldn't be using reins at all, IMHO. You give a cue to get a response, not because a cue always requires X pressure. A rider using spurs who taps the horse with the same leg strength they use without spurs is an idiot who shouldn't have spurs at all. The same principle applies to reins.

When I switched Mia from a rope halter to a snaffle, I had to adjust my instinctive response to a possible bolt to pull less, since less pressure was needed for a given response. (In a rope halter, I darn near had to rip her face off to prevent a bolt - which is why I needed to switch. Ever remove much of the hair from your horse's face? I have...) When I moved her to a curb, I had to adjust my instinctive response to a possible bolt down to a flick of the wrist rather than a pull. If I pulled as hard with the curb bit as I did with a rope halter, very bad things would happen.


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## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

Btw- he will gladly tip his nose into the hacks more and essentially bridle himself. (Not really, lol but he will put his nose and face into the bridle for me when I use a hack. I was told it takes alittke bit to get a bit in his mouth
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

bsms said:


> Obviously, if the rider applies 3 lbs of pressure on the rein, then a leverage bit will result in greater pressure in the mouth. However, leverage bits also apply pressure to the poll, which is outside the mouth. So as long as the rider adjusts his pull to account for the leverage, the leverage bit can use LESS pressure in the mouth, but get the same result because of the additional cuing OUTSIDE the mouth.
> 
> Same with a thinner mouthpiece. Yes, if the rider pulls the same, then a thinner mouthpiece will apply more PSI because the same pressure is going into a smaller area. However, if the horse responds to a given PSI on part of his mouth, then the thinner and thicker mouthpieces will get the same response at the same pressure on the flesh in the mouth. Thus the total force used with the thinner mouthpiece would be less (and require less pull on the rein), giving the same PSI pressure on the flesh. In that case, the thinner piece is no harsher than the thicker one.
> 
> ...



Yup, that's exactly what I mean. When comparing bits with the same pressure there are harsher and gentler bits. 
When I get a new horse and don't know what bit to use I start with the gentlest bit I can find, a metal mullen mouth in my opinion. Especially when a horse hasn't had a bit or who is very sensitive to bits.

Couldn't agree more with everything you said. But I think when most people are looking for "gentle bit" recommendations they wouldn't need leverage or twisted or any of the "stronger" bit types. While those bits don't need to be "harsh" when used correctly in terms of apples to apples, they are harsher than other bits.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Cowgirls Boots said:


> Btw- he will gladly tip his nose into the hacks more and essentially bridle himself. (Not really, lol but he will put his nose and face into the bridle for me when I use a hack. I was told it takes alittke bit to get a bit in his mouth
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My Belgian hated bits after being driven for years in an exceptionally harsh on - I found wrapping a fruit roll up around his new bit made him love it more! You just need to ignore the first minute or two of fussing licking it clean  usually they're done before you're even on and it keeps them focused while you're mounting too


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## bbsmfg3 (Aug 12, 2010)

I get tickled on these bit posts. Especially, when the snaffle is supposedly used as a mild bit. In reality, the snaffle is one of the most severe bits in existence. Stop and think about it. The snaffle allows absolutely no room for the tongue. The snaffle has to rest on the tongue and every time you do any thing with the snaffle, your pinching the tongue down on the floor of the horse's mouth. The comfort bit is about as gentle as they come, because it provides room for the horses tongue. Use it with or without a curb; with or without leverage.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I would do a french link eggbutt for english, and maybe something like a short shank billy allen bit to show western. Since he is over age, you have to be up in the bridle. This is the bit I use to transition horses into the shank bit, and also is a very soft bit that is show legal.

Billy Allen Bits | BuyTack - Abetta Horse Bits


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

bbsmfg3 said:


> I get tickled on these bit posts. Especially, when the snaffle is supposedly used as a mild bit. In reality, the snaffle is one of the most severe bits in existence. Stop and think about it. The snaffle allows absolutely no room for the tongue. The snaffle has to rest on the tongue and every time you do any thing with the snaffle, your pinching the tongue down on the floor of the horse's mouth. The comfort bit is about as gentle as they come, because it provides room for the horses tongue. Use it with or without a curb; with or without leverage.


_Extreme disagree._

Snaffle is not one of the most severe bits. Yes, the single jointed mouthpiece itself works off pinching the tongue and pushing up onto the palette. _However,_ it also works off bar pressure and lays correctly in the mouth. A true snaffle is nothing but a ring, a 1:1 pressure ratio. It will NEVER have leverage.

When a bit adds leverage, i.e. any tom thumb, argentine snaffle, single jointed gag, etc. it becomes much harder thank a regular snaffle whereas it not only adds leverage but a new angle to the shanks. That is why I choose barrel mouthpieces over single joints. The _only time_ I will use a single jointed, uncovered, with a shank is when it is on a gag bit. Otherwise, imo, it is not worth it while other bits there are available.


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## bbsmfg3 (Aug 12, 2010)

"A true snaffle is nothing but a ring, a 1:1 pressure ratio. It will NEVER have leverage"

And neither does a comfort bit without leverage or curb. Open thy mind and consider the following. 

Any snaffle, regardless of how it is used, pinches the tongue any time it is used. The snaffle does not allow any clearance for the tongue, NONE. It's impossible to use a snaffle without pinching. Your either pinching the tongue down against the bottom of the horse's mouth, or if used improperly, try to separate his jaw, if you pull back in the direction of his ears.

Took me a lot of years to realize this. Once we switched to training with the comfort bit, many biting problems went away. And you have a horse with a much better attitude towards the bit.

And you wonder why I get tickled on this subject. Too many folks are so set in their ways, they can not see the forest for the trees.

What is there to "_Extreme disagree" with?_


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

A snaffle doesn't pinch the tongue. If the bit is the right size, it cannot collapse very much because the width of the horse's mouth prevents it. It lies on top of the tongue. 

I think there is too much bit-bashing that goes on. A bit that your horse is comfortable carrying and that the horse finds easy to understand is a gentle bit. Horses get to choose as well. My gelding Trooper uses a single joint snaffle bit and acts happy. Mia preferred a Waterford in a snaffle:










_"What is there to "Extreme disagree" with?"_

Trust me: when Mia isn't happy, she lets her rider know! If it was pinching her, she would have complained. Instead, she mostly played with it. Further experimenting led me to realize Mia understands poll pressure better than mouth pressure, so that is the way I've gone with her.


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

Your horse sounds like Cinny when I got him. He had a very terrible "30 day training" before I bought him and they did something to his mouth. It took me 3 years to get him to accept anything at all really without throwing his head straight in the air any time I even touched the reins. He likes the Happy Mouth double jointed snaffle and now the Sprenger Duo mullen, which he likes even better! He was a terrible teeth grinder, but I never had any problems with the bits getting chewed up at all. The only issue I had was that the Happy Mouth Mullen bits are way too big in circumference for him and he can't close his mouth on them. 

Oh, and I used a hackamore on him a lot the first two years and taught him to go off of my seat. He can turn left, right and halt all without any reins at all. I am riding dressage and my trainer agrees with me on the "less is more" philosophy where it comes to my horse and his training. For us, the reins are beginning to be there just for "looks" which means the bit isn't really used much either.


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