# Jumping critique



## xJumperx (Feb 19, 2012)

Hmm ...

Your pony seems very rushed and off balance. I would say stop jumping right now and fix the holes in her training. She is strung out, rushing the fences, fighting you, and hauling you around these jumps. While she is VERY cute, I would definitely take her back to square one.
I actually have a pony that acts extremely similar to your pony. I would honestly refer to the thread I posted about my horse and read some of the stuff that other members have posted on that thread, because it is very helpful stuff, and I think it can help you a lot. Link here:
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding-critique/help-needed-critique-our-flatwork-474786/
Look there for some indirect critique on your horse.
As for your position, I think you need to school on a horse that isn't taking you for a joyride. There is no way for you to improve while you're trying to hold back the horse as much as you are in this video. If you were on a calmer horse, this is how I would critique you:

You need a stronger base. TONS of no stirrup work. Shorten your stirrups a hole or two, so that you are more secure when you jump. Make sure you keep those heels down, and don't pinch with your knee. Think of using your whole leg as a seat-belt. If you pinch with your knees, your balance will be null. Also, keep your shoulders back and try to straighten out your back a bit.

Keep posting videos and asking for more and more critique. Do you have a trainer? I would love to see you two progress.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

First pic looks okay. Your toes are turned out a bit far and your foot is too far into the stirrup. You might try shortening your stirrups a hole or two. 

Second pic. Same thing about shortening and too much foot home. You're jumping ahead a tad and have lost your lower leg. You have the same issue I do, upper body resembles a shrimp. It affects the lower leg and produces what you see in that picture. On approach to the fence, think about really opening up your chest and sitting as tall as you can. Easier said than done as I've been fighting it for years. 

3rd pic. You're looking down. Why are you looking down? Once the fence disappears from between your horse's ears, it's time to focus on where you are going next. Again open the shoulders. Sit tall, proud, ride it like you own it. 

Overall looks good. All that stuff amounts to minor tweaks that will make a huge difference in your overall position. Love your horse. Nice even knees.


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## StephiNDunc (May 15, 2014)

I figured my stirrups could go up a hole or too and I could feel my feet slipping through the stirrups. As for looking down I have no idea why j am! I rarely take lessons due to cost but as winter is coming and I plan to jump more as I have my BHS stage 2 coming up I will book some. Thank you for the advice it's nice to be able to have new eyes on my riding as being in the UK I'm not going to lie most of us here ride to stay on not for style! I will get some videos on my other slower calmer pony for you as it will be easier to judge. Isshe is umm how can I say... Sharp?! There is no changing her believe me and I wouldn't subject her to anyone as I know to well they would ruin and terrify her! It's only me that rides her and all she does is hunt and jump I don't expect her to do flatwork or showing she hates it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Hee hee. I didn't watch the video before. Yeah, agree xjumperx, back the truck up and fix the training holes first. She's blowing through your aids and you're locking your elbows and contributing to the fight. I don't have $$ for many lessons either. I'm lucky if I do 4 in a year. That being said, they are an important 4. I still think all your issues are all easily solveable, but you do need a competent instructor on the ground to get you pointed in the right direction.


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## SaraM (Feb 14, 2014)

I agree with everyone else, you need a lot of ground work before I'd even think about jumping this horse, sorry. 

When you try to get her straight before jumps and you can see her back end fish tailing around, it worries me like shes going to hurt herself launching over jumps wild like that. When you're trying to turn, she's throwing her shoulder in and almost doing a 90 degree turn instead of bending; you're letting her fall inside there. Overall, her back is tense, her head is inverted and bracing against you, her trot and canter is choppy because of that. She's picking up wrong leads because of that too. 

I know you say she's not the type of horse for flat work, but you really need it. Work on bending, teaching her to soften her back, ground pole work, so many circles, and then maybe let her go over one jump. Then back to flat work to settle her down.

Watching your video, it seems like you're modeling after grand prix riders, fast and doing everything to cut time. Unfortunately, you have to do a ton of basics before you can race through courses like that. She looks like she could be really nice, but she needs to RELAX and listen to you too.


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## xJumperx (Feb 19, 2012)

StephiNDunc said:


> I will get some videos on my other slower calmer pony for you as it will be easier to judge. Isshe is umm how can I say... Sharp?! *There is no changing her* believe me and I wouldn't subject her to anyone as I know to well they would ruin and terrify her! It's only me that rides her and all she does is hunt and jump *I don't expect her to do flatwork* or showing she hates it!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Please do provide another video on a calmer horse. But the parts that I have bolded, scare me.

The fact that you say that you physically CANNOT change this horse, leads me to believe that you are not the right person to be riding her. This horse can DEFINITELY be changed, and can certainly become much more successful if you were to put in the effort and try to help her. If you don't want to put in the effort to help balance and improve your horse, maybe consider letting someone with more experience ride her so that this pony can reach her full potential.

You don't expect her to do flatwork? What is everything you do between the fences? I cannot stress this enough: _Jumping is just flatwork with speed bumps._ If you continue the mentality that flatwork is useless, you will never progress in your jumping. I also heavily doubt that you ever showed more than 2'3" with that kind of mindset. I'm sorry for my blunt (maybe rude) honesty, I just don't want to see you or your cute little pony hurt.


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## StephiNDunc (May 15, 2014)

Guys I asked for crotique on my position which I got. Shorten stirrups, sit up more relax my knees. My fiancée bread and I broke this mare. I break a good number of horses each year and the others are all pretty chilled and easy going. I have restarted her before as she had a winter off but believe me she's a high wire and frankly I love it. I've ridden all my life and the pair of us get on like a house on fire. Everyone else falls off. What ever I put her at she jumps and she regularly last year jumped double clear 2'6+ she XC schools 3'3. I will post videos of Duncan later he is slower and easier for you to judge.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Well, you need to take what XjumperX has advised. You may enjoy her rowdiness, but it shows a true lack of discipline that will get in the way of ever being a successful jumping team. Whenever you have to fight a horse as much as I saw in the video, at least one of you are not having as much fun as you think. That horse is fighting you and asking for more consistent riding from you.

I would love to see you both step back and do the homework (flatwork) it takes to get the discipline needed to progress. Otherwise, the fight will go on and probably get worse.


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## skittlesfirehawk (Mar 5, 2011)

from the video you posted this looks like an er accident waiting to happen.The horse is completly out of control and someone is going to end up hurt.You need to hop off and do tons of ground and flat work.


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## Starcailer (Aug 22, 2014)

I do not jump, but nice flatwork is the foundation of any discipline. Even if you dont show rail class, or dressage, there is flat ground between jumps that needs to be covered in a relaxed and controlled way. I mean, do you really jump her 5x a week? Do you never flat her? Thats hard to believe. Wouldnt you want to have an enjoyable ride if you arent working on going over fences? Jumping consistently is hard on a horse, I dont think its a good idea to jump the horse all the time, but that it your choice.

That said I can only comment on the flat, your hands need to be quieter, you sort of tug around on her mouth because she is not listening to you. Needs to be fixed by flat work for the both of you. When trying to turn she drifts out, you need to make your outside aids your wall and apply your inside aids so she bends around your leg in a nice arc instead of a sharp 90 degree turn. Someone above mentioned this, work on bending, flexing, and lots of circles. She doesnt seem balanced at all and she is totally ignoring you.


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## StephiNDunc (May 15, 2014)

I like how people assume I jump 5 times a week... Wow. I'm lucky if I get time to hack out 3 times and I jump maybe twice a month... I was going to post some videos of my other pony and me jumping today but if all I get is people telling me what to do with my own pony I'm not going to bother. Thank you for the position advice but I've had my mare 4 years and she is just the same. She is a hunting machine and that is where her heart lies she is impeccable on the hunt field. It's funny as all the people in the UK that watch her would give an arm and a leg for a forward going pony like her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Starcailer (Aug 22, 2014)

From how you described it, it sounded like you dont do anything else except jump, but if that is not the case then I'm sorry i was mistaken. It just boils down to, people wondering about your flat work and feeling like you and your mare could use improvement on the flat. That is the critique, nothing more than that. No one is trying to tell you how to ride/train/use your horse. We were just giving opinions on the brief 2 min. we saw.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

OK - I am from the UK, jumped ponies in my youth as did my children and I'm afraid you're going to hear much the same from me
I'm also going to say that you asked for critique and that's what you've got, no one has been rude, they are just giving their opinions
To your credit you have a very secure seat - you sit that pony really well when she's fighting you and bouncing around. 
You do come too much out of the saddle when you jump
Your foot position in the stirrup isn't standard for typical showjumping but it is closer to what you would see Cross Country or hunting
It isn't unusual to see very forward ponies in UK jumping but they do need to be able to collect and slow down/shorten a stride as well
She looks like a pony that would do OK in Scurry Classes if she had some better brakes but even for that she needs to learn to lower her head between the fences and collect so she can balance for sharp turns
Until you can figure out a way to get her back together between fences she's going to struggle to get the elevation needed to go much higher over a course of jumps because at present she's jumping too flat - like a hurdler
At that speed with her head in the air she's a high risk of getting a pole between her legs and coming down with you if she doesn't see the fence in time
I've hunted all shapes, sizes, ages and types of horses and ponies and would not like a day on her unless she's a lot calmer than she looks - she is not a typical hunting pony IMO!!!
Some examples of top UK ponies - very different to what you would see in the US hunter/jumper rings where you see a much gentler approach but even though these horses are 'hot' the riders are able to 'hook them back' when they need too without losing that impulsion you need to get up in the air
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnM1c-wIqL4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K52vPvG3GzI&list=UUrlqlyPfUXXFHLJqJnsvxhQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBREwiJnGpM&list=UUrlqlyPfUXXFHLJqJnsvxhQ


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## Starcailer (Aug 22, 2014)

I really like the second video, and I think it illustrated jaydee's points extremely well. It is extremely different than the US hunters I see! Being that I am from/live in the US, I only really have that style of riding to compare to. So I am only able to critique from what I know, which is a very different style than the UK obviously.

Very neat to see/learn though. In that second video I really like the first rider, but the second pony.


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## StephiNDunc (May 15, 2014)

She settles in the hunting field as she know her job and does it well. Her head carriage is always difficult but I have found she goes well in a hackamore so maybe I will get another video of her in that. She also usually has a martingale but she has a sarcoid between her legs about to drop off so she can't wear it. If I'd had her back in my pony club years I'm sure we would have gone far but I'm too old to affiliate her now. I am uploading a video of my other pony from today for a more realistic review as Isshe is obviously difficult to judge me on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StephiNDunc (May 15, 2014)

Here is a selection of clips of my other pony Duncan he is a 6yo 14.2 New Forest gelding. The single jump clips are from last month but give a better view of my position and the other clips are today and show our approach and get-aways from the fences.


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## CandyCanes (Jul 1, 2013)

Duncan looks much easier to handle, and the whole picture is much more relaxed, and there is not nearly as much tension as with isshe (not sure how you spell it, sorry). 
How does the first pony go when she is lunged over a jump?


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I wondered the same about the first pony CC
Duncan - Very different type and would probably be a nice pony for Riding Club level. Your full seat/driving seat leaves you sitting back a little too much so when you're going up over the fence you seem to be slightly behind the action - and then you sit up too soon to try to compensate
I'd like to see him more collected to have better balance around the corners because at times he seems to 'fall' out of them
These two could do with having some each of what the other has!!!


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## StephiNDunc (May 15, 2014)

Lungeing Isshe over fences is not too bad, she can rush and get in too deep but on the lunge I have been doing a lot of pole work with her to make her think and will pop her over a jump towards the end if I am happy as some days she is a high wire and others she will relax. I lunge her maybe 3 times a month and she has gotten far better. She has regular sports massages and after one of those she is lovely. Duncan is a totally different ride, I can feel myself driving him and then getting left behind, I mainly take dressage lessons on him as he is my future competition pony as he is more up to height. We have been working on moving off the leg in the lessons we do have and balancing around circles and such. he can 'nap' towards the gate which is when I can feel him falling out the most. I am in quite a large field so I really must set some boundaries as to where I ride!


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

What I see with the second pony is that you are behind the motion (leaning back) and driving with your seat. You do this to the base of the jump and are left behind on most of the fences. You are behind the motion at the top of the fence. This throws your weight back and, over bigger jumps, will tend to encourage the pony to drop it's haunch. This may lead to dropped rails from the hind.

If you were my student, I would have the pony move off the leg, and less of the seat to the jump. Then, you would be able to flex forward over the jump and flow with the horse better.


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## MillenniumEquestrian (Sep 26, 2014)

As you have gotten plenty of input on your mare/training holes, etc...I will give my input simply on my critique of your position overall.
- Work on closing your hip angle (think keep your knees on the saddle and in turn this will bring your toes to face forward rather than outward)
- Shorten your stirrups a hole or two and sink down into your heel, again thinking toes forward 
- Bring your shoulders back together and flatten your back so there is less of a "hunchback" look, this will help your balance over the fences
- Bring your elbows in towards your ribcage so you have less of the chicken wing look
- You also seem to be looking slightly down in all the photos/video. Bring your eyes up and this in turn will also help upright your upper body position


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## Notanequestrian98 (Apr 25, 2014)

Okay well I strongly agree with xJumperx. I know how it feels to get your horse critiqued when you didn't ask for it, it can be quite frustrating. But in the long run, looking back at all the critiquing I got from people, my horse is a MUCH better mount to ride and work with.
Like everyone has said, Isshe needs to slow down. She's tearing around the jumps and not getting clear direction so she's coming to a jump, starts to swerve around it, then gets back in line with the jump. Just a few things i noticed. I'm not bashing, I promise!!! She seems like a great horse with potential, so I'm just offering advice that could help you guys improve so you can be a better team.
And for you, you seem to be all hands and no leg. I understand the horse your riding likes to rush, so your holding her back, but still, it's not good for the horse to have its mouth pulled on constantly. Try riding on a bit looser of a rein and use your legs more. Also, your balance seems to come from the reins, not so much your seat and leg. Try using those more than depending on the reins. I used to depend on the reins when I didn't know a lot about riding, and now I'm a much better rider now that I learned to use my seat and leg. When you're jumping, lean a bit more forward in your two-point and sit slightly deeper in the saddle. Not a whole lot deeper, but just enough where your butt stays in the saddle a little more. Idk if you've had lessons to jump or not, but I know my trainer would scream bloody murder if I didn't release in the jump. Releasing is just moving your hands forward, about halfway up their neck, depending in how high the jump is, so that the horse can extend his head to reach over the jump. And after you've completed the jump, keep your hands forward for about two strides, and put your hands back where they usually are. This helps your horse to be more willing to go over and it doesn't catch him in the mouth, like I did notice happened in every jump in the video. 
I didn't see the video where you were riding Duncan,mainly because my iPad didn't want to show up the video, yet I could hear the hoof beats lol I hope this helps. And again I'm not bashing you or telling you that you are a bad rider. Your not. You just need work, which everybody needs.


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