# Lakota coloring



## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Are his legs clean in that second pic?

If they are, I'd say he's brown. Not at all "ugly brown." Brown is a variation of bay and is characterized by the cinnamon coloring on the muzzle.


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## afghanslakota (Jan 7, 2016)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Are his legs clean in that second pic?
> 
> If they are, I'd say he's brown. Not at all "ugly brown." Brown is a variation of bay and is characterized by the cinnamon coloring on the muzzle.


no they aren't, he was playing in a muddy pasture and wasn't too happy that I interrupted his play time. 

picture is off him right before I got him.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Yeah, he still looks brown, to me. 

If he was chestnut, he'd have a distinctly lighter band of hair around his coronet. 

Like this horse (horse at my barn...Pic was actually of the somatic mutation going on on the leg on the right, but it shows a typical chestnut lower leg on the left :lol: )


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## afghanslakota (Jan 7, 2016)

I think he's gorgeous no matter his coloring.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Brown is actually one of my favorite colors. 

My best friend's mare is brown. She's a rich mahogany color in the winter and is summer is a deep red-gold.

Had a friend with an Arab gelding who was brown. Winter he was the coolest almost-purpley maroony color. Summer he was mahogany.

Then, there was the OTTB gelding I worked with who was brown. In winter, he's was so dark he looked black (except for the cinnamon color on his muzzle). In summer, he was a deep, vibrant maroon color.


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## jgnmoose (May 27, 2015)

I think he is Brown as well. The hint that he is Brown and not Bay is the lighter coloring around the muzzle.

Handsome youngster for sure, whatever color you choose to call him.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Could he be a wild bay (minimal black on legs)?
Is there such a thing as wild brown?


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Avna said:


> Could he be a wild bay (minimal black on legs)?
> Is there such a thing as wild brown?


He *might* be a wild bay, but his body color makes me lean away from that direction. 

The lightness on his legs seems to just be that the black hasn't come in yet because he is still young and not yet in his adult coat.


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## afghanslakota (Jan 7, 2016)

pictures don't do him justice.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

I think his legs will be more black when he sheds out his baby coat, light bay?


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## afghanslakota (Jan 7, 2016)

His momma in the back ground I don't know what color she'd be classified as. 

his sire


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Momma has to be brown or bay. The agouti that's making him brown had to come from somewhere and as far as I know, haflingers don't carry agouti. Momma is to dark to be bay, so she has to be brown.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## afghanslakota (Jan 7, 2016)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Momma has to be brown or bay. The agouti that's making him brown had to come from somewhere and as far as I know, haflingers don't carry agouti. Momma is to dark to be bay, so she has to be brown.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


His mom is a thoroughbred. so probably from her pedigree someplace.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Agouti doesn't hide except on chestnut. If there's agouti present in a black-based horse (which momma is definitely black-based), it will make that horse bay or brown. So, the agouti came from the mare, meaning she's either bay or brown. She's too dark to be bay, leaving the only possibility as brown.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## afghanslakota (Jan 7, 2016)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Momma has to be brown or bay. The agouti that's making him brown had to come from somewhere and as far as I know, haflingers don't carry agouti. Momma is to dark to be bay, so she has to be brown.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



info on his mom
Horse Racing | Horse Racing Entries | Horse Racing Results | Past Performances | Mobile | Statistics

She's dark brown(meant that) on everything ive looked up on her.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Yep. So baby boy is pretty much definitely brown.  Or more appropriately, a badass brown.


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## afghanslakota (Jan 7, 2016)

ive had so much fun looking up his momma's pedigree she's got some great race horses in her pedigree. some mulitiple times


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I'm not understanding why the mom is automatically brown from your explanation above. Are you saying that Haffies don't have agouti because it hides?

As it hides how do you know if they have it or not? Just seems odd to me.

Agree he is brown though I am also guessing he may be wild type.


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## Regula (Jan 23, 2012)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Momma has to be brown or bay. The agouti that's making him brown had to come from somewhere and as far as I know, haflingers don't carry agouti. Momma is to dark to be bay, so she has to be brown.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm not sure that's ever been tested. Haflingers are all ee (red) with flaxen and pangare. Agouti only shows in black-based horses and hides on red based, so it could come from the dad as well.
If the mom were black (impossible to tell from the one photo), the agouti would come from the dad for sure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Regardless of whether haflingers carry agouti or not, the OP stated that the mare is brown, so it's a moot point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## afghanslakota (Jan 7, 2016)

I was wondering about Pangere gene. its present in the haflingers.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

afghanslakota said:


> I was wondering about Pangere gene. its present in the haflingers.


I'm not sure if pangere presents in black-based horses. Obviously they can carry it, like chestnut horses can carry agouti, but I don't know if it will express.

That being said, the way pangere expresses and the way brown expresses are completely different. Pangere creates creamy, almost white points on the horse. Brown creates more cinnamon-colored points. Your colt's points are clearly cinnamon, not cream. Therefore, I'd say it's unlikely he has pangere (IF it can express on a black-based horse).


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## afghanslakota (Jan 7, 2016)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> I'm not sure if pangere presents in black-based horses. Obviously they can carry it, like chestnut horses can carry agouti, but I don't know if it will express.
> 
> That being said, the way pangere expresses and the way brown expresses are completely different. Pangere creates creamy, almost white points on the horse. Brown creates more cinnamon-colored points. Your colt's points are clearly cinnamon, not cream. Therefore, I'd say it's unlikely he has pangere (IF it can express on a black-based horse).


I'm researching it now. 
Pangare: Pangare is a modifier that acts by lightening certain portions of a horse's coat, usually the muzzle, the belly, the inner forearms and thighs, and sometimes even the chest or around the eyes. When it acts on a chestnut coat, the horse usually will have a flaxen mane and tail. It can act on any color, and varies in intensity. It is often found in pony and draft breeds, such as Haflingers, Fjords, Exmoors,

I noticed his nose is lighter and he's got some light spots under his back legs as well. his mane and tail are 2 colors. light with dark. gorgeous.


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

Isn't pangare often called "mealy" when its on a bay/brown?


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Like I said, though. Pangare creates a creamy color. Brown creates a cinnamon color.

Pangare (good example on a black-based horse):









Versus

Brown:


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## afghanslakota (Jan 7, 2016)

wont know for sure until he's gotten his adult coat correct? his tail fascinates me.


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

If he had pangare, you would see it already (see this thread for pics of a weanling with it).


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

His tail will grow out black. That's just what they call "baby flaxen" adding the lighter color.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

his mom was likly brown or black bay. my mare is a Badass brown and you can see the how the color vriations.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

i would call him Bay.


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## afghanslakota (Jan 7, 2016)

KigerQueen said:


> his mom was likly brown or black bay. my mare is a Badass brown and you can see the how the color vriations.


ill have pictures of his mom soon. her owners are texting me pictures soon.


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## afghanslakota (Jan 7, 2016)

Lakota's Momma


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## afghanslakota (Jan 7, 2016)

http://www.pedigreequery.com/one+for+grandpa

that pedigree thing has her as dark bay or brown mare


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

dark bay is what most would call my mare. its brown. so he could turn out brown or normal bay ( the brown he would turn looks just like bay but with a lighter nose. so add the markings on my mare slightly lighter on your boy). though looking at him i would say bay.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

"dark bay" "black bay" "seal brown" "dark brown" are all the same color. It is brown as opposed to a true bay, just lots of different names 

While he is obviously not the same as mom shading wise I agree that he is also a brown horse, just a lighter brown. Just like you have different shades of bay with some being dark and others copper. He does looks so different from mom, but same genetics.


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## afghanslakota (Jan 7, 2016)

Yogiwick said:


> "dark bay" "black bay" "seal brown" "dark brown" are all the same color. It is brown as opposed to a true bay, just lots of different names
> 
> While he is obviously not the same as mom shading wise I agree that he is also a brown horse, just a lighter brown. Just like you have different shades of bay with some being dark and others copper. He does looks so different from mom, but same genetics.


he looks way different than his sire that's for sure. only haflinger quality I see so far is his build, he's not lanky like most thoroughbred colts ive seen. :runninghorse2:


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Looks like he got dad's hair though!


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