# 'White' Vs. 'Gray'



## GlassPlatypus (May 25, 2012)

OK, so I know that a horse that is born a dark color and/or has dark skin and later the coat turns 'white', is properly called a gray, at least by true horsepeople. 

And I also know that true white horses exist, but they are light-skinned and often have light blue eyes.

So why then are the 'Famous Lipizzaner Stallions' always called white, when they are born black or dark brown and show dark skin on their muzzles and other areas? Shouldn't they be called gray?

Just something I was thinking about as I watched a program about them online the other day.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Genetically, they are grey. This happens in other breeds too - a lot of UK breeds call buckskin dun for example.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Although some people consider it wrong, I sometimes call a horse that is completely grayed out "white." 

It's just easier to say "that white horse is a Fox Trotter" than "the gray horse, who looks white but is technically gray, is a Fox Trotter." So I think the Lipizzan folks use it in the same context. 

It's not that we don't know the horse is gray. But it's coat color is white. All the non-horse people will call the horse white as well. To me, it's not a big deal.

And actually, I'm pretty fuzzy on what makes a horse really and truly "white." Are they technically cremes, dominant whites or ??? Extreme sabinos can be white too. But they are still sabino. So I guess to me, white is more a color description than a genetic description.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

To me the max sabino'd and DW's are probably the closest to get to white you can get, because they have a white pattern not gray or a dilution causing their white. Though genetically they have a base color. I have a sorrel DW he is almost completely white he retains a little bit or his sorrel coloring in ticking in certain areas and the inside of his ears but that's it. 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Even the completely white-due-to-a-pattern horses are genetically a solid color underneath, the same as the gray horses. They are just born white and stay white. I know Peppy's gelding was born with more color that faded and is hardly visible though.

This mare is genetically bay splash. But due to a combination of different splash mutations, she is completely white.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

GlassPlatypus said:


> So why then are the 'Famous Lipizzaner Stallions' always called white, when they are born black or dark brown and show dark skin on their muzzles and other areas?


Probably because most of the people who go to see them don't know anything about horses. It's a marketing thing.


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## MangoRoX87 (Oct 19, 2009)

Because when you perform for a crowd with generally little to no horse knowledge, they don't know the whole "grey" thing. "White Stallions" just sounds so much more appealing and romanticized.

And when you are like me and had three "grey" mares out in a pasture, it's easier to say "the white one" then "the grey that is the lightest shade of equine grey". :rofl:


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

You know what I don't get? It seems like most horse breed encyclopedias list "Albino" as a breed. A breed native to the United States at that. I have lived in the USA my whole life and have never heard of "albino" as a breed, or even a color for that matter.

Where do the breed books get this information? Or am I mistaken? I mean, from my understanding, albino horses don't even exist, right?

So why do breed books list albino as a breed when I have never heard of it?


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

trailhorserider said:


> You know what I don't get? It seems like most horse breed encyclopedias list "Albino" as a breed. A breed native to the United States at that. I have lived in the USA my whole life and have never heard of "albino" as a breed, or even a color for that matter.
> 
> Where do the breed books get this information? Or am I mistaken? I mean, from my understanding, albino horses don't even exist, right?
> 
> So why do breed books list albino as a breed when I have never heard of it?


There used to be an albino horse association. They registered cremellos...


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Chiilaa said:


> There used to be an albino horse association. They registered cremellos...


Thank you! 

I was looking through one of my books tonight (Simon & Schuster's Guide To Horses and Ponies of the World) and it has all the breeds listed by country. For the United States, along with all the normal breeds, it listed "Albino." I have always wondered why they did that and where they got their information. :wink:

Of course, I also own a Fox Trotter and when I looked up the breed description they describe the fox trot gait as the horse "cantering with the forelegs and walking or trotting with the hind legs." Um, no, that's just plain wrong! It makes you wonder how many other errors are in there that you haven't found yet because you don't know any different. :-|

(To give the book a little slack however, it seems to have been originally published in Italian and then translated to English.)


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

I wish booksellers and libraries would realize that even breed information gets out of date...


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## Ponies (Aug 18, 2012)

^ and 4h clubs. Ours is teaching the kids that a horse thats pure white with brown eyes is a albino, and that 'white' is an actual _base_ color.. 
-.-


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I totally used to think 'Albino' was a breed, thanks to various breed books xD

Admittedly, I'm still not the most well versed in horse color genetics. Because I'm not involved with breeding, I'm not terribly concerned with it. It's still cool to read about, though!

In regards to think thread, if a horse looks white, I call it white... like trailhorserider. xD I have too many nonhorsie friends that don't care, and otherwise wouldn't know.


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

It really depends who I'm talking to. If I'm talking to a non-horse person, I use white. I've made the mistake of pointing out the "grey" horse and getting a puzzled look because they don't see a grey horse anywhere.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Glynnis said:


> It really depends who I'm talking to. If I'm talking to a non-horse person, I use white. I've made the mistake of pointing out the "grey" horse and getting a puzzled look because they don't see a grey horse anywhere.


I never seem to get away with a simple "white" for non-horse people when I show them a picture of my horse. Most of the time the first question they ask is whether or not he's albino. They end up getting a mini color genetics lesson


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

Zexious said:


> I totally used to think 'Albino' was a breed, thanks to various breed books xD
> 
> Admittedly, I'm still not the most well versed in horse color genetics. Because I'm not involved with breeding, I'm not terribly concerned with it. It's still cool to read about, though!
> 
> In regards to think thread, if a horse looks white, I call it white... like trailhorserider. xD I have too many nonhorsie friends that don't care, and otherwise wouldn't know.


Yep, same here. If a technically gray horse looks white, then I call it white. I know full well that it's a gray, but if it looks white then it looks white!

I once got rubbed the wrong way on a cat forum when I posted about my blue pointed cat- I said something about how annoying it was wearing a black shirt with a white cat or something like that. Got a lecture from several people about how, technically, my cat's white fur was actually a lighter version of her blue points. Gee guys, I'm aware! It's not like my shirt cares that her fur is actually very light blue!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Eh, when talking to non-horse people, it's just easier to say "that white horse" or "that red horse" because most of them, if you say "that gray horse" think something like this









instead of something like this (same horse BTW :wink









Same with Chestnut or Palomino or Buckskin or Bay. It's just much easier to say red, yellow, yellow and black, or brown and black...because you'd just have to say it anyway when they asked what the heck you were talking about LOL.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

smrobs said:


> Eh, when talking to non-horse people, it's just easier to say "that white horse" or "that red horse" because most of them, if you say "that gray horse" think something like this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How old was Dobe in the photo above? I am still waiting for Zane to get serious about graying out. Yes, he's getting more white hairs, but man, is he taking his sweet ol' time! 

At the rate he's going, it might be another few years before he's the color of Dobe shown above. I really hope he goes through a dappled phase! 

Maybe when he sheds out this spring he will have the first hints of dapples (crossing fingers). :lol:


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

LOL, Dobe was 4 in that picture. I wish he had grayed out more like Zane because I really don't like white horses. If he hadn't had the personality he does, he would have been booted down the road years ago.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

smrobs said:


> LOL, Dobe was 4 in that picture. I wish he had grayed out more like Zane because I really don't like white horses. If he hadn't had the personality he does, he would have been booted down the road years ago.


A good horse is never a bad color!  I would trade personality over color any day of the week. And actually, I really like grays of all shades. Zane's momma looks a lot like Dobe. 

This is what Zane looked like in December. He's about 3 1/2 years old. He does have white in his coat but the only place it shows up in photos is on his face and tail. I still basically have a bay horse from a distance.


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