# before and after (and overall) critique! :) ottb.



## gotxhorses

i don't have any pictures of me riding him, but this is my ottb, moon bean. his barn name is ******. he's 7 years old and 15.2hh. he is registered dark bay/brown, and was pretty bleached out from being naked in a field all summer.

i got him august 22, 2010.

i don't have any pictures of me riding him as of right now beacuse he just got finished got a 2 week break due to being foot sore from going barefoot. so, i got front shoes put on him on thursday and he's just now getting back into work and re-training.

(we're working on getting his weight up and getting him healthy and shiny.)

anyways, pictures!  if you have any questions, feel free to ask!

august 22:

















october 9:


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## gotxhorses

and just some random pictures from october 7th and 9th.

october 7th:
















october 9th:


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## SugarPlumLove

Umm how come he got so skinny??


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## gotxhorses

He's getting into work and adjusting. He used to be skinnier, but those pictures weren't showing it. He's getting 1 1/2 times the amount of grain he was on (and it's a higher fat and protein grain) and getting unlimited hay. He was originally on a grass field getting no grain and junk grain. I promise he is putting on weight.


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## SugarPlumLove

Have you tried beetpulp? if you add a tiny bit of oil to it it really helps. grass is actually really good for them to gain wait on too

And he looks way better in the first two pics


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## gotxhorses

yeah. i actually plan to buy that this week. i'm really not abusing him, promise!  he eats more treats than you'd ever imagine, is on a coat/hoof supplement now, and is actually getting worked.


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## gotxhorses

Any other critiques? (besides the weight, which we're working very hard on.)


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## AlexS

gotxhorses said:


> Any other critiques? (besides the weight, which we're working very hard on.)


I guess that you don't want to hear it, but he looked a lot better when you got him than he does now. He has lost a lot of weight. It might be smart to reevaluate what you are doing.


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## Jillyann

Hmmm, personally, I think he looked better in the first two pictures. When a horse gets into a good workout routine, they are supposed to gain muscle, not loose weight. I agree with the poster above me.. I would re-evaluate what you are doing. Hay really does not do much for weight gain, mostly just keeps the horses feeling 'full' between meals. I would put him back on grass, and get him on beetpulp, or corn oil.


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## gotxhorses

He was out of work and on a field of grass... You can't expect him to go into work and look exactly the same. He's losing fat and gaining muscle. He's getting worked everyday, he's on more of a higher quality grain and hay now as opposed to lounging around on grass all day. He's going to re-shape as he progresses.

Yes, I understand he's thinner, but it's not from something I'm doing. It's just from a transition. I promise, give it another month and he'll look 100x better.


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## dee

As someone who is working hard to put weight on some horses, I know how hard it can be. Sometimes, the way they stand can make them look worse off than they actually are. His weight is definitely better in the first pix, but he still looks nice and shiny - just in need of more groceries. Also, if you just started back in working him, he may be a bit slower to put on weight. He needs lots of trotting to build up muscling. 

He looks to be a really cute horse with a great disposition. Careful with the grain, because it may make him a bit hyper, which can negate the weight gaining properties you want.


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## gotxhorses

Plus, he's been at 3 different barns in the past month and a half. He's only been on this new grain since about September 5th. So, it's been a little over a month that he's been on the new grain and supplements. I knew he was losing weight, which is why I switched his grain from what he was eating at his old barn to this, but he's building it back up now that he's at the barn he's staying at.


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## Jillyann

Sure, maybe that is the case..but it is very unhealthy for horses to loose that much weight in a short amount of time. It is obvious in those picture he has lost quite a bit. If he is being worked everyday, then he should be getting 3x the amount of grain to compensate for the gaining of muscle/loosing of weight.

In the second to last picture, you can see he has no muscle on his withers what so ever. His spine is almost visible (it probably is in person, but harder to see in the pictures) If he was gaining proper muscle, that would not be the case.

You can clearly see all of his ribs, and in the third to last picture, you can see his hip bone. Im not sure what your workout routine is, but with 'proper' everyday riding, those areas would be covered with nice thick muscle.


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## JaspersRose

My paint gelding was about that skinny when I first got him, from not being fed properly (not saying thats whats happening here. that was what happened to my horse). Although, after just one day of eating grass, he started filling back out. It didn't take a month. It's been one week and My boy looks normal. He eat's one scoop of high protein feed twice a day. Once before I go to school and once before I go to bed that night. He munches on hay and grazes during the day to keep him "full" and he looks fine and you can't even see his ribs.

I really do think you should reevaluate what you are doing with his "training". A horse shouldn't lose so much weight just from training =(

My Mare, Dixie, was at a good weight and had been in a pasture for 4 years with no work or training at all and was brought to the barn and worked every day for a month straight and she didn't lose any weight at all. The fat turned into muscle. She's slimmer now, but thats from losing the extra fat.


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## franknbeans

I can only say I agree. Horse definitely looks skinnier in the after pics. I will also say I bought a new guy in the spring, who was OK weight, but no real muscle. He has steadily gained muscle mass, not lost weight at all, in spite of being worked daily. 
TB's can be notoriously hard to keep weight on, but He really needs some, particularly with winter coming. Corn oil has worked for me in the past with other horses, and is pretty easy to do, and most of them like it.
Any particular reason you keep moving him? 3 barns in 6 weeks is a LOT! With all the fabulous places in MD, it should be no problem to find a good one, who also has experience with TB's.


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## inaclick

Aside from shinier coat, he looked better from all points of view in the "before" pics.


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## Trissacar

Don't listen to em girly.
He has lost weight but if you look his coat is shinier. Indicating better nutrition. He'll get there. Alot of ottbs get skinny when you start them in work. Tbs can be hard to keep weight on. Hay stretcher has worked for alot of horses I know. My girl was a little skinny for a while cause she was growing and just starting reg. work.
And you have nothing to prove we all know you're working hard on beany.


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## Gillian

Sorry Trissacar, but there is no reason for a horse to drop that much weight. Coming into work or not, he is obviously not getting enough of whatever he is getting. That's just like using the "he's skinny because he's old" excuse. There is NO difference.


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## Trissacar

Gillian said:


> Sorry Trissacar, but there is no reason for a horse to drop that much weight. Coming into work or not, he is obviously not getting enough of whatever he is getting. That's just like using the "he's skinny because he's old" excuse. There is NO difference.


Sorry he's not that skinny. And yes there is for that amount of weight which is small.>.>


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## Gillian

He's not THAT skinny, sure. But an increase in exercise should also mean an increase in his food, to prevent weight loss. He needs more weight before muscle will build anyway. At this point he won't built muscle because apparently it's too much to even keep weight on. I know she's working on it, but to post a critique of his before and after right now is ridiculous. He certainly doesn't look better. He either needs less work or more food.


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## Trissacar

Gillian said:


> He's not THAT skinny, sure. But an increase in exercise should also mean an increase in his food, to prevent weight loss. He needs more weight before muscle will build anyway. At this point he won't built muscle because apparently it's too much to even keep weight on. I know she's working on it, but to post a critique of his before and after right now is ridiculous. He certainly doesn't look better. He either needs less work or more food.


It think she wanted more of a critique on his care(grooming) and attitude. 
The way everyone was talking was very hostile and was definitely not going to accomplish anything.


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## Gillian

No one felt acknowledged I guess. Sorry to seem rude, but I'm just being honest with what I see.


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## countmystrides

he IS that skinny, it's very noticeable that he's losing weight. look - his top line and withers have clearly sunken and lost their tone. there's something else other then riding and work that's causing him to drop this much weight. either his teeth NEED to be done, or he's not getting enough forage / grain. he doesn't just need fat, he needs protein, fat and fiber. equal amounts = the best diet. put him on a performance feed, without corns etc. corns are merely fillers and do nothing for weight. I'd feed pellets over sweet feed as well. Beet pulp is definitely a good idea, but i'd suggest switching to a better quality feed and upping the grain intake. his coat does look nice, so i'm assuming he's getting enough vitamins and nutrients for shine. Just work on his weight! He's cute


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## HollyBubbles

has he had his teeth done?? if he has and he is still dropping weight i would get blood tests done to make sure theres nothing physically actually wrong with him that means he loses weight. My mare was anorexic pretty much when we got her, and after 2 weeks of long dairy pasture she was right back to the state she should be in, so there could be something wrong with beany?? just a thought


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## riccil0ve

He looks way better in the first two pictures. I have to agree with everyone else. Also, a shiny coat doesn't always mean a horse is healthy. Add corn oil and you get a shiny coat. My best guess is all the moving around stressed him out too much. I would take some time to let him adjust, keep him on a good diet, and then start working him when he gets weight put on.


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## equineeventer3390

riccil0ve said:


> He looks way better in the first two pictures. I have to agree with everyone else. Also, a shiny coat doesn't always mean a horse is healthy. Add corn oil and you get a shiny coat. My best guess is all the moving around stressed him out too much. I would take some time to let him adjust, keep him on a good diet, and then start working him when he gets weight put on.


Agreed. When I got my event horse a few years ago he was quite skinny and bleached. Was getting riding twice a day, every day. In a dirt paddock with no grain at all and 1-2 flakes of hay a day. The first 2 weeks I had him I did not do much. I let him settle, and let him gain some weight. I groomed him, did ground work, rode him on the trails. and that was it. 
What exactly are you doing with him right now? I would think about cutting back on the amount of work your doing right now and focus on his weight. He probably lost the weight from moving around and being stressed. And you are right that proper work will make him look better as he will gain muscle, but I think you need to give him a little break and let him gain some weight before you go into heavy work. Do ground work, go on trails, just have fun and bond with him.


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## smrobs

He may be a horse that doesn't do well on grain. His belly is bigger but his ribs and spine show more than in the before pictures. He has clearly lost some muscle definition so whatever you are doing isn't working. I suggest visiting with either a vet or an equine nutritionist so that maybe you can get him on a food that will actually benefit him. For a horse that is being worked (especially a hard keeper), you need a lot of fat content and a healthy helping of protein too. Stay away from the sugars and starches that you find in a lot of "grains".


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## LuvsArabella

I see more muscle definition, but it looks like he has lost more weight. You can see his ribs way more now. But I can see that is gaining muscle, but would say he needs a little more fat on those bones!!


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## MacabreMikolaj

In defense, I am experiencing the EXACT same thing with my filly - she's gone from 1,000lbs in spring to 938lbs now (after the move). I am going out every single day to feed her two scoops of wet beet pulp (1 pound dry), 1 scoop of alfalfa pellets (3 pounds) and 1 scoop of Cool Command complete feed (3 pounds). They scatter several bales of good grass hay morning and night in the pen, so they are almost always with hay (may go a couple hours between feedings without).

I am working on getting her a stall (one only JUST became available), and considering making some feed changes once she's in one. But I have been doing this for a couple months and I CANNOT put weight on her.

Obviously I am modifying what I'm doing, but Jynx would look IDENTICAL to this horse if I posted before and after pics right now. He is nowhere near dangerously skinny, he's obviously just not adjusting well to the changes and she's said she's making modifications.


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## mom2pride

gotxhorses said:


> He was out of work and on a field of grass... You can't expect him to go into work and look exactly the same. He's losing fat and gaining muscle. He's getting worked everyday, he's on more of a higher quality grain and hay now as opposed to lounging around on grass all day. He's going to re-shape as he progresses.
> 
> Yes, I understand he's thinner, but it's not from something I'm doing. It's just from a transition. I promise, give it another month and he'll look 100x better.


What you're missing these folks expressing is the concern that rather than actually gaining muscle, that he is losing both muscle and fat...yes his coat is shinier, and appears less bleached but weight wise, he looked quite a bit better in those 'before' shots. 

On such a dark horse, it couldn't hurt to get his copper levels checked. 

Grain, I repeat grain is NOT what puts weight on a horse...it gives energy; sometimes good energy, sometimes bad, but while it may help give him specific nutrients, that is not what will ultimately bulk him up, and help him gain muscle and weight. 

Hay AND pasture are where he gets his "weight building" from...I can honestly say I have NEVER fed a horse tons of grain to build weight, ever...free choice hay, and a pasture if I had one...and access to loose minerals 24/7, are what built up scrawny horses in a 'hurry'. If a horse isn't going to sit around and eat grain in the wild to keep his weight up, theoretically, why would he need to in captivity either? It's a huge mis-information when people tell everyone that a skinny horse needs 10-20 lbs of grain a day in order to gain his weight. He needs what he would eat "naturally"...grass is best, but of course, there are many types of hays to choose from as well. 

My mare lost a tad bit of weight early on this summer, and all I did was tell the barn owner to give her an extra section of hay each feeding, and within a week, she was no longer showing those ribs. Could I have given her a bunch of grain? Sure, but I don't think the results would have been nearly as quick...plus she's not one to sit around and munch on grain for long...she will leave her feeder for her hay bin...:?


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## mom2pride

MacabreMikolaj said:


> In defense, I am experiencing the EXACT same thing with my filly - she's gone from 1,000lbs in spring to 938lbs now (after the move). I am going out every single day to feed her two scoops of wet beet pulp (1 pound dry), 1 scoop of alfalfa pellets (3 pounds) and 1 scoop of Cool Command complete feed (3 pounds). They scatter several bales of good grass hay morning and night in the pen, so they are almost always with hay (may go a couple hours between feedings without).


Do you know if she's getting chased or otherwise harassed by the other horses? If she is new to the place, some of the more dominant ones may still be giving her a bit of 'trouble' from time to time. When my mare lost her weight, it turned out that the two boys she was being penned with at the time were giving her problems...so I nixed that (gave her her own paddock back), and switched up her diet a tad. 

Your filly is also still very much a gangly baby...so she can go up and down, depending on areas that she may be growing in. :wink:


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## Deerly

I always get really confused when people post before/after pictures in a critiquing section when the after is clearly worse than the before! I know it's sometimes hard to see gradual changes in a horse you see every day but when you lay out the pictures yourself...!

I think the posts have been honest and thoughtful. Something isn't right with this scenario, the horse getting so skinny and losing so much definition in a short time. I hope it's an easy fix in the diet and not an underlying health problem!

I don't think there's any reason to be defensive when someone is literally asking for critique and comparison specifically of "then" and "now." I don't think anyone was being hostile, unless I'm just too tired and not picking up on it. The OP seemed to be proud of the changes and I think it's good to have some insight as to why that may not be the right attitude to have based on and off those photos.


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## inaclick

Nobody was hostile from my point of view either. Nobody said "Look what you've done to that horse!" and I haven't seen a single accusation directed to the OP either.
All did their best to look at some pictures and...compare them using their eyes. Usually thats the best you can do about it yeh?


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## drafts4ever

Has he been wormed? I'm building weight on my gelding at the moment and last week he was looking pretty good and just last night my trainer and I noticed his ribs are noticeable again. Our fix is up his food again, change his work out and worm him. In November he'll be getting his teeth done as well because he is a drooler when he eats. 

Maybe check with your vet on worming and teeth floating? Make sure he's all up to date. Sometimes the little things can be what's making them lose weight. 
Good luck with him!


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## franknbeans

Thanks drafts-that was my next question. However, I would call the vet, and get a fecal. Take it to them....for under $20 you know if that is an issue and exactly how to correct it.

I also would agree with teeth if that has not been done recently. All that food does nothing if she is really not getting it bc of bad teeth.:?


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## MIEventer

This horse definately needs TLC in the Grocery department. There is something definately wrong here, you should not see ribs at all.

The "Before" pictures shows a healthy horse at a great weight. And the "after" pictures shows a horse NOT at a healthy weight. 

The OP says that the only thing changed in the program is the work load - then you have to understand that you must UP the feed intake to coincide with the work load. 

I would look into a complete feed, like Purina Senior, Tripple Crown Senior. Purina Ultium. How much grain in your horse getting now? 

You say your horse is getting free choice of hay - which is great - so I would look into health issues, as others have stated, like teeth, fecal count, etc, etc.

I would also look into digestive suppliments. 

I'm very saddened to see the "after" pictures......you should never see ribs. I know the stress that goes with this, I own a very hard keeper - but you need to make nutrition your #1 priority here. I have done alot of reading and asking veterinarians questions on how to keep a hard keeper healthy. You need to step up to the plate here for the health of your horse.

I've had to studdy up on hooves and hoof angles and hoof health - so I say you need to really sit down and studdy equine nutrition and health.


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## beauforever23

AlexS said:


> I guess that you don't want to hear it, but he looked a lot better when you got him than he does now. He has lost a lot of weight. It might be smart to reevaluate what you are doing.


I honestly agree with that ^^ he IS skinny... he looked better when you first got him.. you should stop working him everyday until you get some weight/muscle on him first! you can clearly see his ribs and his hip bone. TB's can be hard to get weight on and i know first hand. 

when i got my guy he was skinny as skinny was going to get. after 3/4 months of very hard work i can't see anything on him! all i see if fat/muscle. you should up his grain, put him on a weight supplement and maybe you should put him on some purina senior feed. 

good luck with him


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## ShutUpJoe

Ok I don't want to sound mean.... But...in the first two pictures he looks alert and young. In the after pictures he looks like he got darker, he looks bay in the first two and almost dark brown in the recent ones. He looks older and more spent. Even his eyes look different. He looks like he can't get enough of that grass. He is a VERY nice looking horse, just looks stressed. Like he needs time off.


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## riccil0ve

The biggest thing is that he didn't look like he needed any "fixing" when you got him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sarahver

Less work, more feed of appropiate nutritional proportions for a TB that is in work. Free choice hay is a good start, this guy looks like he is in dire need of some digestible protein and some healthy fats.

I would keep him in light work (i.e. 2-3 times a week for 20-30 mins) until he picks up some with the new diet.

Don't take this the wrong way but have you owned TB's before?


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## AlexS

He does look stressed, but he has done an awful lot of moving, I think she said 3 places in 6 weeks. 

To the OP this might be nitpicky, but please don't just leave your lead rope hanging or on the ground as it is in the past 2 pics. Your horse will step on it at some point, and get a good yank on his halter.


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## franknbeans

Sorry Alex-have to disagree with the leadrope thing. They learn rather quickly that when they step on it it is fine, and actually learn not to panic, which is a good thing. People do that all the time when they ground tie, etc. It was nitpicky, IMO.

Since we haven't heard from the OP, I have to wonder if she has left us. Sure hope not, since there is a lot of help for her here. :-( 

And-her horse could use it. 

The whole thing about moving so much makes me really uncomfortable. She never answered why. My gut is telling me that perhaps BO's have questioned her, or made suggestions she didn't like too.....I sure hope she gets some help for the poor guy, like I said-especially with winter coming and they burn more calories.


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## sarahver

I think the horse needs some attention too, perhaps to have his diet/workout regime assessed by someone who has experience with OTTB's.

Her OP states that she got him on August 22 so I think all the moving around was prior to her owning the horse? Suggests to me that it isn't the moving around that has caused the weight loss, or a sudden need for dentistry but something to do with his NEW owner. Simply not getting the nutrients/bulk he needs added with perhaps too much work.

For sure, TB's can lose condition quickly (when something goes awry) but this was a rapid decline in a short amount of time - hopefully you address the situation quickly before he loses any more condition.


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## AlexS

She was online this morning, so I imagine she has seen the responses.


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## Alwaysbehind

GotX, is that him in your avatar photo?


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## eastcoastcowgirl

The first pics are very clearly cell phone pics, which are much lower quality than actual camera pics, giving good reason to not show much detail. 
Moving causes stress but he's obviously not under too much pressure considering she can wrap her arms completely around his head and he's fine with it.
I had a TB last year that had sat in a field for 4 years and looked awful when I got him. After a year his appearance, though he was healthy and fit, did not change much even with 5 pounds of 10-10 grain, beet pulp, Purina's amplify, among a whole list of weight supplements he had been on at one point or another.
This year I have a 4y/o TB who is definitely not skinny but you can still see his ribs. It's the nature of the breed. If the horse was being abused why would the owner even care for a critique?


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## Alwaysbehind

eastcoastcowgirl said:


> It's the nature of the breed. If the horse was being abused why would the owner even care for a critique?


1. It is not the nature of the breed any more than it being OK for an older horse to be kept too thin. Yes, sometimes with a hard keeper there is a need to find what works for a specific horse. But that is still no reason to accept thin. 

2. No one said abuse. 


Interesting, a brand new poster whose first post was this thread to stick up for the OP and tell the rest of us we are meanies....hmmm....

Eastcoast can you answer the question I posted just above your post?


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## eastcoastcowgirl

I know a 34 year old horse that holds weight like a champ and a 22 year old horse that is very thin, both quarter horses, both with the same owners, both have the same routines. Both healthy, both happy. I have had horses of all different shapes and sizes and that's exactly what they are, different. Thin does not mean anything, how many horses get sick from being overweight?

Nobody specifically said abuse, you're right, however it was implied that she was not taking proper care of him, correct?

This was the first post when I signed up, therefore this was the first post I commented on. Excuse me for being new and having a first post but that's how you get a second and third and so on.

I did not comment directly to anyone and I did not say anything directly relating to one persons comment or another. I just find it remarkable that people will join together against someone.

No, I cannot answer that question, however granted that she said he just came off the track and is getting back into training I imagine it would be safe to assume that is not him.


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## sandy2u1

> Interesting, a brand new poster whose first post was this thread to stick up for the OP and tell the rest of us we are meanies....hmmm....


Why do people do that? 

Just work on fattening the horse up for crying out loud. Nobody is trying to be mean to you. Hard keepers can be extremely challenging. I know all to well. Stop being all defensive and trying to convince everyone they are wrong by creating accounts to defend yourself. Your time would be much better spent trying to work on making the necessary changes to get your horse to the weight he needs to be. 
​


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## Alwaysbehind

eastcoastcowgirl said:


> I know a 34 year old horse that holds weight like a champ and a 22 year old horse that is very thin, both quarter horses, both with the same owners, both have the same routines.


I would guess then these two horses might benefit from not having the same routine. :wink:

I do agree that horses come in all shapes and sizes.

I am not totally anti-rib. I think a race fit TB looks fine. And you can see their ribs. A thing racing TB does not look fine. But they are clearly two different creatures.

The concern here is that the horses ribs were not showing before and are showing now. 


Hopefully the OP will get his weight turned around soon.




sandy2u1 said:


> Why do people do that?
> ​


Do what? Point out that a post is suspicious?


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## franknbeans

Sorry Eastcoast-I also disagree that it is "the nature of the breed".

Just take a look at some of these-trainer listings of horses who are just coming off the track. I looked at a few, and was not seeing ribs at all.

Finger Lakes Trainer Listings - Finger Lakes Track Horses Available


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## sandy2u1

> Do what? Point out that a post is suspicious?


No. I meant, why do people run off and create accounts to defend themselves.
​


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## eastcoastcowgirl

Their routines are the same, they are not on the same feeds or supplements, for obvious reasons.

I have taken cell phone pictures before and have them look completely different from an actual camera picture, I work in photography, I do have knowledge in this area. The low resolution on cell phone cameras make things look slightly different (i.e. depth, which would show ribs). In the pics from Oct7/9 (I think) his ribs are mysteriously gone only a few days later. These pictures look much more like the first two. Coincidence? I think not.

I'm not the OP (original poster, I'm assuming), just throwing that out there. I have a horse named Nova, 18y/o Paint, and a horse named Risky, 4y/o TB. I would be insane to get another horse right now. I have one account on here, and this is it. Why would someone make two accounts to defend themselves? You can do that just as easily with one account.


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## Alwaysbehind

But you made an account to post in JUST this thread? Really?


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## mls

Alwaysbehind said:


> The concern here is that the horses ribs were not showing before and are showing now.


And the top line is getting worse instead of better. Which with the horse being worked - can mean the horse is hurting in back, hocks or stifle. Bad saddle fit, rider pouding on the back or yanking in the face.


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## Alwaysbehind

mls said:


> And the top line is getting worse instead of better. Which with the horse being worked - can mean the horse is hurting in back, hocks or stifle. Bad saddle fit, rider pouding on the back or yanking in the face.


The way the horse is standing in the after photos made me think it probably had a pretty sore back or back end. So put the two together and it makes sense.

OP, have you had a full vet work up on your boy?


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## eastcoastcowgirl

@Alwaysbehind- No I did not make an account to just post in this thread, but everyone was replying too quickly for me to figure out how to post my own. Why would it matter if I made the account and just posted in this thread though? I don't quite see the logic of doing that but that comment had nothing to do with the topic being discussed.


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## kitten_Val

eastcoastcowgirl, first of all let me welcome you to the Horse Forum!  

To everyone else... Alter Egos are tracked and per Forum rules same person can't have multiple accounts to post. 



eastcoastcowgirl said:


> I know a 34 year old horse that holds weight like a champ and a 22 year old horse that is very thin, both quarter horses, both with the same owners, both have the same routines. Both healthy, both happy. I have had horses of all different shapes and sizes and that's exactly what they are, different. Thin does not mean anything, how many horses get sick from being overweight?


Horses are very different even within one breed and hold weight differently. What's good for one may not be enough for other. I feed my paint generally more than my qh (which looks like a barrel on 4 short legs), because she's more nervous, runs a lot, and spends more energy in general. I agree with AB, there is no excuse (besides _some _health factors, say some horses with cancer are skinny no matter what) for the horse to be thin. Usually more food and weight builders fix the problem pretty fast. :wink: And yes, I completely agree with you too - overweight is as bad (if not worse) as being on skinny side. So I'm all for happy medium!


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## sarahver

eastcoastcowgirl said:


> The first pics are very clearly cell phone pics, which are much lower quality than actual camera pics, giving good reason to not show much detail.
> Moving causes stress but he's obviously not under too much pressure considering she can wrap her arms completely around his head and he's fine with it.
> I had a TB last year that had sat in a field for 4 years and looked awful when I got him. After a year his appearance, though he was healthy and fit, did not change much even with 5 pounds of 10-10 grain, beet pulp, Purina's amplify, among a whole list of weight supplements he had been on at one point or another.
> This year I have a 4y/o TB who is definitely not skinny but you can still see his ribs. It's the nature of the breed. If the horse was being abused why would the owner even care for a critique?


1.) As others have stated, it is certainly not the nature of the breed.

2.) If you knew anything about TB's you would know that 5 pounds really is not much to be feeding them. Particularly if they are in work.

P.S. AB - I am pretty sure it is not the horse in her avatar as I remember a thread where she asked for a critique on this guy (subject of this thread) and she had the same avatar.


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## countmystrides

LOL, this girl is getting told off a million different ways. But we can all (almost all) agree your horse does need more weight and he is going downhill.. We don't allllll need to repeat ourselves right? We're wasting all our time, the OP isn't going to read all this anyhow. How's this ottb looking now? Please take our advice though..


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## AlexS

I just moved my ottb as he was losing weight because the barn owner would only put them out to grass for 2 hours a day, 5 days a week. He has been on pasture board now for a little over 2 weeks and his ribs are no longer showing. It is amazing how quickly the hard keeper I have has put on weight. 

My point is that it can be hard to keep weight on a horse, the only way I could do this with my guy was to move him. 

However this horse is not necessarily a hard keeper. His former owner was able to get a good amount of weight on him, the loss has happened since the OP owned him.


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## sarahver

eastcoastcowgirl said:


> The first pics are very clearly cell phone pics, which are much lower quality than actual camera pics, giving good reason to not show much detail.
> Moving causes stress but he's obviously not under too much pressure considering she can wrap her arms completely around his head and he's fine with it.
> I had a TB last year that had sat in a field for 4 years and looked awful when I got him. After a year his appearance, though he was healthy and fit, did not change much even with 5 pounds of 10-10 grain, beet pulp, Purina's amplify, among a whole list of weight supplements he had been on at one point or another.
> This year I have a 4y/o TB who is definitely not skinny but you can still see his ribs. It's the nature of the breed. If the horse was being abused why would the owner even care for a critique?


 
Oh and a 10/10 - what were you feeding that for - the taste? Nice looking bag? 10% protein is very low for a TB. Not much point increasing the fat when the protein is deficient.

If you are going to make an account to defend an argument you would be well served to make sure your points are well reasoned first.


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## eastcoastcowgirl

I feed 10/10 because 
A. too much protein makes them hot
B. it's well balanced (clearly..)
C. a plain brown bag is just so beautiful!..right..
D. I know nothing about the taste, as I do not sample my food which I'm assuming is what you're getting at, however I know my grain does not smell any better or worse than grains with other ingredients.

MY horses do not have protein deficiency so I don't see why you're attacking what I do for my HEALTHY horses when they aren't even the horse in question. Protein builds muscle, fat builds fat. This horse needs fat as well as muscle. I've never heard of loading a horse up with protein to build fat.


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## franknbeans

Well, OP was on the same time as I-hope she is reading and perhaps will answer.


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## sarahver

eastcoastcowgirl said:


> I feed 10/10 because
> A. too much protein makes them hot
> B. it's well balanced (clearly..)
> C. a plain brown bag is just so beautiful!..right..
> D. I know nothing about the taste, as I do not sample my food which I'm assuming is what you're getting at, however I know my grain does not smell any better or worse than grains with other ingredients.
> 
> MY horses do not have protein deficiency so I don't see why you're attacking what I do for my HEALTHY horses when they aren't even the horse in question. Protein builds muscle, fat builds fat. This horse needs fat as well as muscle. I've never heard of loading a horse up with protein to build fat.


My last post was quite rude so I apologize for the way I worded it, that was unnecessary. It was in reference to a horse you used to compare to the OP's horse which I believed you described as being skinny for a year despite feeding. I just meant to point out that the diet you described is not very well suited to building weight on a TB.

However, a couple of other things - it is the starch/sugar content of a feed that makes it 'hot' not the protein. TB's will be just fine on a 12-14% protein feed as long as the starch content is not high. Also, just because a feed has equal proportions (i.e. 10/10) does not make it balanced in a nutritional sense.


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## gotxhorses

okayy. to everyone that posted on here and said the pictures were different and he looked so much skinnier. i think i know why. the quality of the pictures. yes, i know he is skinny. and yes, i know the pictures look drastically different. but i was looking at pictures on my phone. the quality looks TOTALLY different. here are several more pictures from October 7th (from off my cell phone). he is ribby, but the camera seems to draw attention to it more than when i look at him, and definitely when my phone camera looks.

because as you can see in these pictures, you can hardly see ribs... and they're from like 2 days before the camera pictures, so obviously he didn't lose that much weight in 2 days.

and i'm not trying to sound rude at all. i just want to clear some stuff up now that i've been able to clear it up for myself... hope you all understand once you see these pictures.

so the picture quality difference made it look a huge difference. yes, i totally understand that he's skinny, but he is making progress!  these pictures just show it a bit better. i wish i had better quality camera pictures from before. so you'd see how skinny he really was.

hopefully this makes it better for people... and i'm really hoping that people see what i mean, and that i promise he didn't lose weight like it looks in the first picture comparison.

and hopefully people can take back their negative thoughts on me!  cause i really am a good horse person. and i spoil my boyy more than no other. he's my bestfriend.

October 7th. CELL PHONE.


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## franknbeans

It does look much better-like a whole different horse


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## gotxhorses

yeah. so i think that's what happened. cause like i said, he didn't lose weight. if anything, he's gained it. so i didn't understand why he looked SO much skinnier in the pictures for comparison. but i think my camera draws way more attention to shadows and stuff than my cell phone. too much, actually. cause he doesn't look nearly as skinny as what you see in my camera pictures. you can barely see his ribs at all if you're standing face to face with him. i guess in my case, the camera doesn't add ten pounds... it deletes 100.


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## aislingmmmmm

gotxhorses said:


> okayy. to everyone that posted on here and said the pictures were different and he looked so much skinnier. i think i know why. the quality of the pictures. yes, i know he is skinny. and yes, i know the pictures look drastically different. but i was looking at pictures on my phone. the quality looks TOTALLY different. here are several more pictures from October 7th (from off my cell phone). he is ribby, but the camera seems to draw attention to it more than when i look at him, and definitely when my phone camera looks.
> 
> because as you can see in these pictures, you can hardly see ribs... and they're from like 2 days before the camera pictures, so obviously he didn't lose that much weight in 2 days.
> 
> and i'm not trying to sound rude at all. i just want to clear some stuff up now that i've been able to clear it up for myself... hope you all understand once you see these pictures.
> 
> so the picture quality difference made it look a huge difference. yes, i totally understand that he's skinny, but he is making progress!  these pictures just show it a bit better. i wish i had better quality camera pictures from before. so you'd see how skinny he really was.
> 
> hopefully this makes it better for people... and i'm really hoping that people see what i mean, and that i promise he didn't lose weight like it looks in the first picture comparison.
> 
> and hopefully people can take back their negative thoughts on me!  cause i really am a good horse person. and i spoil my boyy more than no other. he's my bestfriend.
> 
> October 7th. CELL PHONE.
> View attachment 43455
> 
> View attachment 43456


 
Good job, you're right and i wish you and your horse the best, as long as hes happy and healthy!


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## gotxhorses

thanks! now hopefully some people will understand that i really am not as awful as i seem. cause i know they were trying to help, but some of the stuff was a little hurtful. such as the questioning of why i changed barns. and if maybe the barn owner noticed i was suspicious or i didn't like her thoughts... that wasn't it AT ALL. i switched barns from the one he was at, to my trainer's friend's, because there were not any available stalls at my barn. i would have kept him where he was til a stall opened up, but it was a 40 minute drive. which i wasn't looking forward to making everyday in my 15mpg jeep. so, i brought him to my trainer's friend's barn temporarily until a stall opened up at my barn.

nothing suspicious there...


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## equiniphile

Add corn oil to his diet. It works miracles, plus it makes for a shiny coat. He's a nice-looking boy, though. Veerrrrryyyy long front pasterns, though. Could be a place for hazard


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## gotxhorses

thanks. yeah, he's on 2 different supplements right now that will help with his weight, coat, hooves, and joints.  and really? i feel like long pasterns are more typical for tbs (or at least all of the ones i've worked with around here). and i didn't think his looked unusally long. but yes, i know they're not wonderfully short, so, i make sure to always keep an eye on his legs. and check them up and down thoroughly everytime i'm at the barn.


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## gotxhorses

and does anyone want to re-evaluate their thoughts? or do they still think he's too skinny and losing an incredible amount of weight? (i'm honestly just curious.) now that you have a more comparable set of pictures, i want new opinions. 

*** to anyone that didn't see the "new" pictures (and explanation), they're about half way down page 7. please, anyone who viewed this thread and commented before, take the time to look. and re-comment. thanks!


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## Clementine

gotxhorses said:


> Plus, *he's been at 3 different barns in the past month and a half*. He's only been on this new grain since about September 5th. So, it's been a little over a month that he's been on the new grain and supplements. I knew he was losing weight, which is why I switched his grain from what he was eating at his old barn to this, but he's building it back up now that he's at the barn he's staying at.


That is a lot of moving. He's probably pretty stressed, which, I'm guessing, is leading to, or adding to, his weight loss. 

There's this feed that I just learned about which one of my friends uses - it made an amazing difference in her horse, and I bet it would really help your guy. Her mare was as skinny and undermuscled as your guy, and now, after being on it for only a month, she has really filled out with muscle & fat, and her coat is very bright & shiny. Only problem is that I forget what it's called. LOL. I'll ask her and get back to you.


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## sarahver

The latest photo's are certainly more flattering than the first ones. All the best and good luck continuing to build him up.


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## NannonsWhiskey

Hey don't let worry! My horse went from "chunky" to "thin" when I got him as well! He didn't take to moving very well, once he settled in (and settled down) his weight went back to "chunky" lol He was/ is worked daily and would pace horribly all day until he got use to his enviroment. Other than the weight issues how is he doing under the saddle, ground manners, etc? Oh, plus I think he is pretty regardless!


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## leonalee

He has definitely dropped a considerable amount of weight since you've become his owner. I hope you have a plan in action to get him back up to where he should be: please re-evaluate what you are feeding him! In all intances I've seen of an OTTB, they come off skinny and the new owners fatten them up. Surely you are not working him as hard as he was worked when he is on the track. How long was he off before you got him? You two look very cute together, but it would be a lot more obviously cute if I were not gawking at the amount of rib showing :/ Sorry to be so harsh... but it is true.


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## leonalee

Ohhh - see that you updated with different cell pics: when you compare cell to cell, he looks like he isn't so bad... actually kind of looks fatter! Yay for you and your cute horsey!


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## gotxhorses

leonalee said:


> Ohhh - see that you updated with different cell pics: when you compare cell to cell, he looks like he isn't so bad... actually kind of looks fatter! Yay for you and your cute horsey!


yeah! that's what i meant!  when everyone said he was still way skinny, and i was saying he really was gaining weight... haha. but i guess now that you can compare pictures of the same quality, it's easier to see the changes.


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## beauforever23

he looks great  and he's a very pretty boy  good luck with him =] i don't see many good horse owners although you are one good owner.


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## inaclick

I apologize as well!
Those first pictures put him in a dreadful light. These last ones do him much more justice.

Congratulations for the progress made


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## gotxhorses

thanks!  i'll post more pictures once i'm able to get out during the day when it's not raining.


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## HeroMyOttb

The more current pictures you posted show his weight gain and he looks great. My OTTB's last race was 11/2/09 and I got him 11/7/09. He did not take the transition from race horse to riding horse well. He has been on a scoop of grain and scoop of beet pulp the entire time I have had him and within the last two months he has fianlly gain weight. I barely see his ribs now but it took FOREVER but cute horse!


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## sandy2u1

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the newest pictures and the really skinny ones you posted taken at the same time (or at least only a few days apart). It appears to me that the digital pictures have much better quality and it is much easier to see how the horse really looks.


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## leonalee

Sandy: I may be wrong, but the images she took initially were with a camera phone and were deceptive. Yes, the most recent _camera _images were displaying a thin horse, but when you look at the first camera phone images and the second camera phone images, the horse looks a bit more round. Without a clear camera images from the time the first phone images were taken to compare to the camera images posted (that were more recent), it is hard to say either way. :/ Hopefully comparing camera phone-camera phone depicts the truth of situation... although he would have to of been completely emaciated when she got him for him to look "better" in his thin condition now


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## gotxhorses

he is hardly ribby at all when you look at him in person. the digital camera pictures i think took a lot of the shadows and added a lot of detail that isn't there. i'll take it out this weekend and try to get some pictures not at noon when the sun is making everything look shadow-y.


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## sarahver

Pictures don't lie. Whether they are taken from a camera or from a cell phone is irrelevant. However, the stance of the horse will change how it looks dramatically as well as if the horse if moving or standing still.

So whilst the new pictures are more _flattering_, it doesn't mean that his weight is any different from the pictures showing him as being underweight, it is just a different angle and it is harder to see. You can still see that he lacks topline but due to the angle, the ribs etc are not as noticeable.

Gotx: I think this has turned into a bit of a storm in a teacup. Basically, it looks like the horse has lost some muscle mass but it isn't severe and I strongly doubt that anyone thinks you are a 'bad owner' so no need to be too defensive! If you would like some help on how to build him back up a bit, there are plenty of people on here who could offer very good advice if that is what you want. It wouldn't take much at all to get him in tip top shape - some well chosen feed, a light work program and one to two months and you would have him right where you want him. _Then_ you could increase the feed/workload accordingly to continue his development.


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## JaspersRose

sarahver said:


> Pictures don't lie. Whether they are taken from a camera or from a cell phone is irrelevant. However, the stance of the horse will change how it looks dramatically as well as if the horse if moving or standing still.
> 
> So whilst the new pictures are more _flattering_, it doesn't mean that his weight is any different from the pictures showing him as being underweight, it is just a different angle and it is harder to see. You can still see that he lacks topline but due to the angle, the ribs etc are not as noticeable.


I have to agree with this post. I'm a photographer so I study the way that angles/lighting/settings work. The OP stated that her camera draws more attention to shadows. Hence, those shadows could be manipulation the photo and tricking the eyes into not seeing the ribs.

I'm VERY glad that your horse is beginning to gain weight, but I know a horse that went three years without being ridden then put straight into a 2 month long training where he was ridden 2-3 hours every day for those two months and he gained muscle and didn't lose weight at all.

I'm not going to apologize for my previous post because, at that time, my post was legit and went with the pictures I was shown. Try to get a better angle when taking a picture of your horse, with enough light to see, but minimal shadows =)


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