# Soring *WARNING* extremely graphic



## my2geldings

Thought I would share this. This topic is meant to be an educational one. I had not heard or seen this until last year when someone else brought it up. 

Please keep this topic without arguments. Hoping more of you out there will hear about this and stand your grounds on the topic.

"Smart" comments, or replies not welcomed.

Please show your support against this horrible abuse.
Part 1





Part 2





Part 3


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## jimmy

theres no way in the world that can be right,and personally i think its a horrible looking gait, each to their own but i don,t see anything classy in it


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## trailhorserider

Unfortunately, this has been going on "forever." Even the video looks very dated. 

What's a crying shame, is that from what I know of Walking horses, they have good dispositions and are trail horses par excellence. I don't know why anyone would want to take a good "using horse" and ruin it with artificial stacks, pads and soring. The horse is naturally gaited. Why ruin a good thing? I guess people will always want to take a good thing (the NATURAL gait) and take it to an extreme. :-(


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## jiblethead

That is just horrible. I personally think gaited horses look better with what every other horse has. No special trimming, shoes, pads, and soring. It's supposed to be naturally gaited not force them into it.


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## dressagebelle

Its the same thing with Saddlebreds. They want that REALLY high stepping movement, and very high head carriage, so they also pad the horses feet, though not near as much as Walkers, and also do chains, ect., though I've never heard of them soring a saddlebred, but I'm sure that its probably been done. And then all the equipment, and harsh bits they use to keep the horse's head jacked up. I know someone who worked at a Saddlebred and Hackney farm, and when they started training the horses, one of the first things they do, is use a bitting rig. They put a bridle on the horse, and a special surcingle, and essentially the equivalent of an overcheck rein, and tie the horse's head so that the ONLY way they can eat is if they break at the poll, and hold their head "just right", and then they leave them like that for a couple of days in the stall, and feed the horse in the feeder. They already breed for huge front leg movement, and then they try to make it even more dramatic. The horses that don't want to step high at all are still forced to move like that, instead of being "culled" out of the herd, and sold or used for something else. All these enchancements, whether they be drugs, tack, shoes, ect., to over exaggerate movement, or attitude, or muscling ect, kind of defeat the entire purpose of selective breeding. It should be enough to breed for that time of movement, and use what the horse was ALREADY born with, and just breed the more animated horses together, than to accentuate it in any way possible.


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## MacabreMikolaj

Yeah, the videos are actually quite old. This vicious and horrific form of abuse has been happening virtually since the dawn of the TWH breed. It's only in the last decade or so that huge advances have been made to make people aware and to put a stop to it. It sickens and revolts me that any human being could be so worthless that they think this is acceptable. I will never in my life understand what is so appealing about the "big lick" gaits. Yes, they pad Arabs and Saddlebreds to enhance action (which I also dislike), but the action is already THERE. They aren't creating a completely artificial gait - TWH aren't even a high stepping breed, who in their right mind decided to make them one?

There is nothing more beautiful then a naturally gaited TWH doing their thing. This abomination should be outlawed - due to the severe unnaturalness of the gait the TWH are forced to perform, it is essentially common opinion that it is IMPOSSIBLE to produce that gait without some form of cruelty inflicted upon the animal. They simply do not move that way naturally and drastic measures have to be taken to produce the gait. To say nothing of the havoc that is wrecked upon their poor joints.

Big lick showing is a blight on the equine industry. Here is an EXCELLENT blog of someone who has dedicated herself to campaigning for this poor breed and making the public aware. She keeps you up to date on any progress, as well as provides tons of information and links to better educate yourself:

For the Tennessee Walking Horse


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## ridergirl23

i dont know much about it, but i LOVE the horses natural gaits, they look so floaty and stuff. when they use all that extra stuf it just looks terrible, like the horse is jsut flinging himsself aroudn to try and rid the pain.


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## ridergirl23

I just watched the last video, and if i was threatened i would keep a gun with me (where it was legal) and tell those b****** exactly what i think of them..........


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## ShutUpJoe

That looks ridiculous. All of those horses are bobbing their heads and they all looked stressed.


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## Kashmere

I cannot watch the videos..
I just can't. Show me wounds and whatnot but stuff like that.
Ugh.

It stopped being about horses. It's more about what a human wants them to do..

I hope there will be an end to this at some time. Even if that'd be in the year 4500.


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## Tasia

I have whatched those videos before. I will NOT watch them again... Yes it is very sad and cruel. Maybe someday it will change.
Some people will do anything to win....


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## rangergirl56m

Personally...I think that is probably the ugliest gait I have ever seen. It just looks so un-natural & very painful. 

No horse should have to go through the suffering of soring...


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## JumpingTheMoon

While I was living in TN recently the shows for TN Walkers were cancelled many times because of the soring practices that were found there.


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## horseshwbrat

If I may address statements made about American Saddlebreds - 

<u>We do not sore!</u> In a breed where being "square" is a must, soring (on top of being a deplorable practice) is just plain counter-intuitive. just because our horses wear wedge-pads, please don't automatically lump us in with Big-Lick Walkers.

Since when was a simple snaffle (bradoon) cruel? Saddlebreds are <i>shown</i> in a double bridle (which often has a simple curb bit), but most often at home are trained in a simple snaffle. If a horse doesn't have the ability to "jack it's head up" (to quote the original post) naturally, there is very little training could do to teach them. These horses are often placed in divisions like Hunt and Western, both of which are very popular, or are sold to sporthorse owners as prospects. Once a horse who is capable is taught to "wear" the double-bridle, in most cases very little practice in one is required.

Yes, many Saddlebreds do wear bitting rigs as a training tool, however they are not used in the manner/for the purpose you described. A bitting rig is more commonly set up with side checks than an over-check, and is always carefully adjusted so as not to be uncomfortable. The purpose is to teach the horse to relax "off" the bit, as opposed to Dressage horses that are taught to do the exact opposite and go down to the bit. Having a bitting rig too tight just teaches the horse to hang on the bit, which is the exact opposite of what is wanted. I have also never heard of a bitting rig used for more than 20 minutes, and they are usually used under careful supervision while the horse can move freely in a round-pen. If you knew someone who left one on for several days, than you were observing an idiot of the first class.

Action devices (chains and stretchies/rubber bands) are a common practice, but the horses aren't forced to use them. If a horse chooses not to, it will not pick up it's feet higher with a chain or pull against the resistance of the ribber bands. You can't make a horse pick it's feet up any higher than the horse has the ability or want to do so.

There are plenty of videos out there of day-old Saddlebred foals trotting at or above level with their heads held high. We do breed for it, and we often get it. Here is a wonderful example 



#


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## HorseDude

Also Responding to the comment about Saddlebreds-

Before we go about making accusations about Saddlebreds Why don't we look into "cruelties" of Quarter Horses, Dressage, Arabs, ect... There is good and bad in everything. 

Why don't we all do some reading up on this fabulous breed 

Saddlebred are fabulous horses with big hearts and a bit step. How Manny breeds of horses can Be shown in Dressage, Eventing, Western Pleasure, , Gaming, and other western events, Driving weather it be Combined Driving, Fine Harness or Pleasure, Hunter/Jumper, Fox Hunting, Side saddle and of course Saddleseat, And on top of it all Be Gaited?


Oh and grow a seven foot long tail


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## CloudsMystique

dressagebelle said:


> Its the same thing with Saddlebreds. They want that REALLY high stepping movement, and very high head carriage, so they also pad the horses feet, though not near as much as Walkers, and also do chains, ect., though I've never heard of them soring a saddlebred, but I'm sure that its probably been done. And then all the equipment, and harsh bits they use to keep the horse's head jacked up. I know someone who worked at a Saddlebred and Hackney farm, and when they started training the horses, one of the first things they do, is use a bitting rig. They put a bridle on the horse, and a special surcingle, and essentially the equivalent of an overcheck rein, and tie the horse's head so that the ONLY way they can eat is if they break at the poll, and hold their head "just right", and then they leave them like that for a couple of days in the stall, and feed the horse in the feeder. They already breed for huge front leg movement, and then they try to make it even more dramatic. The horses that don't want to step high at all are still forced to move like that, instead of being "culled" out of the herd, and sold or used for something else. All these enchancements, whether they be drugs, tack, shoes, ect., to over exaggerate movement, or attitude, or muscling ect, kind of defeat the entire purpose of selective breeding. It should be enough to breed for that time of movement, and use what the horse was ALREADY born with, and just breed the more animated horses together, than to accentuate it in any way possible.


This is so ridiculous. I'm so tired of people bringing Saddlebreds into every single thread about soring, and I'm tired of explaining it calmly. Saddlebreds ARE NOT SORED. Saddlebreds are BRED to move the way they do, as are Hackneys, Morgans, Arabians, Friesians, etc. Tennessee Walking Horses were NOT bred to move like that. They were bred to have about as much leg action as a Paso Fino. THEY are abused and forced artificially and inhumanely to move the way the Big Lick Walkers do. They took a horse that moved nothing like a Saddlebred and forced it to move even more dramatically. It's horrible and I don't agree with it one bit, but it is NOT the same way with Saddlebreds.


Please read my post here, and especially look at the pictures I posted of trotting Saddlebred foals: http://www.horseforum.com/gaited-ho...-equestrian-games-why-46865/page8/#post544530


I hate Big Lick Walkers - obviously because of the abuse that goes on and the absolute destruction of the breed that they once were - but also because of how they've ruined the reputation of other saddle seat breeds. People like YOU, dressagebelle, ruin the reputation of other saddle seat breeds with your ignorance. You either don't take the time to understand our training methods (because they look so different to yours that you just automatically assume they are abusive) or you find ONE abusive barn to base your entire opinion of the breed on.

One example of the complete ignorance of you Saddlebred-bashers is how they go on and on about the harsh bits we use. Well guess what? Saddlebreds are ridden in SNAFFLES at home. They are put in a double bridle one or two rides before the show, they are ridden in it AT the show, and they are immediately put back in a snaffle when they get back home. That's how it's always been done.

Another example of YOUR ignorance is the statement "I've never heard of them soring a saddlebred, but I'm sure that its probably been done."

Uh, what exactly is that opinion based on? It's because Saddlebreds and Walkers move in a similar way, right? And Walkers are sored, so Saddlebreds must be too. Right?

No... Saddlebreds have been moving that way LONG before Walkers were. The TWHBEA INVENTED soring. Saddlebreds CANNOT be sored because ALL Saddlebred disciplines require them to trot. NO TWH disciplines ask for the trot. At the trot, it would be blantantly obvious that they were sored.

Yes, some Saddlebred barns abuse their horses. But the majority of them don't. That's how it is in EVERY single breed. With Big Lick Walkers, the opposite is true. The majority of them are abused and the minority is not (although I still think forcing a horse to move that unnaturally is abusive - even if they haven't been sored).


I'm really failing to see why it's so hard for some people to comprehend that Saddlebreds ACTUALLY move like that naturally. Once they get to the show ring they have been somewhat enhaced, but that's how it is for every breed and every discipline. You can't train show horses without changing them somewhat. You can't grab a WP-bred colt out of a pasture,w/j/l him just enough to keep him in shape, and expect him to win. It doesn't work like that. ALL show horses have to be trained and conditioned. Saddlebreds are changed just as much as any other show horse, and Big Lick Walkers are changed MUCH, MUCH, more.


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## Honeysuga

I agree with CM, soring is to produce an artificial gait, the SB trot is a normal giat for the breed, soring wouldn't enhance this, it would change it. Sure they use light chains and bands, which I do not agree with, but they do very little if any harm to the horses, not like the pads, over the wither rubberbands, and heavy chains(and lets not forget the chemicals) used on big lick horses.

Soring would do the opposite to a SB than it does to a poor BLTWH, it would destroy their natural gait.





Here is a banded SB, note he can still move naturally with the bands, they just force him to work a little harder to build his muscles, but as you can see he is in no stress or pain... And if you will note that that hose can still canter and move like a normal horse, something that a big lick horse cannot do.


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## horsesroqke

*Grrrrr i want to CRY!
Urghhh those gaits look hideously man-made. I cant believe people can stand and cheer for these people. It makes me sick to the stomach. ):
*


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## QHDragon

CloudsMystique said:


> I'm really failing to see why it's so hard for some people to comprehend that Saddlebreds ACTUALLY move like that naturally. Once they get to the show ring they have been somewhat enhaced, but that's how it is for every breed and every discipline. You can't train show horses without changing them somewhat. You can't grab a WP-bred colt out of a pasture,w/j/l him just enough to keep him in shape, and expect him to win. It doesn't work like that. ALL show horses have to be trained and conditioned. Saddlebreds are changed just as much as any other show horse, and Big Lick Walkers are changed MUCH, MUCH, more.



I agree with everything you said, but especially this point that you made. It seems to me that a lot of people fail to understand that you are not going to just take a horse out of the pasture, jump on it, and then win a class at a show. There is some kind of training that has to go into it to get there and win. I have found it very frustrating in my recent experiances with selling horses and helping my BO place some of her rescues that people just expect a horse to be dead broke, beginner safe, kid proof, etc right off the bat, they don't relies that somebody has to put some effort into getting the horse that way! It doesn't work that way!

On boards like this I think the vast majority of people fall into either english (hunter/jumper or dressage) or western riders, so they see some of the methods of saddleseat and because they don't understand it they immediately scream abuse. I think that more people need to get the facts before they start sprouting off. There is abuse in every discipline, its simply a hard fact, people are motivated by money and the allure of winning and of owning a winning horse. There are people who take the short cuts which aren't always ethical or beneficial to the horse in every discipline, so those that are throwing stones at any discipline need to turn around and look at their own.


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## southerncowgirl93

HorseDude said:


> How many breeds of horses can Be shown in Dressage, Eventing, Western Pleasure, , Gaming, and other western events, Driving, weather it be Combined Driving, Fine Harness or Pleasure, Hunter/Jumper, Fox Hunting, Side saddle and of course Saddleseat, And on top of it all Be Gaited?


Actually, Walking Horses (the NATURAL ones, not sore ones) can do all of this. Walking Horses are one of the most versatile breeds around. I have nothing against Saddlebreds and I couldn't say one way or another what happens in their training. Like someone said, all breeds have their problems. From soring to hyperflexion to the bleeding out in WP horses( I know someone who still does this. disgusting). It won't stop with as much money as is in all the breeds and shows. And if DQP's would actually throw out all sore horses at the WH shows, then only the flat-shod divisions would remain, with a couple of sound padded horses. All the talk and fighting won't change this, even as much as we try. People will keep doing it until they die, get arrested, majorly fined, or something to bring their attention to how awful what they are doing is. Soring is horrible, but it won't stop.


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## Curly_Horse_CMT

Those were really eye opening videos :shock: Its just sick how people can deny that its going on right in front of them. Those ladies that brought in those cameras were really brave, since they were told that they shouldnt be there with them in the first place due to the danger. I thought that one of the trainer's comments was "to have fun" at these kinda shows...whats the fun if you are going to be threatened or perhaps killed over reporting animal cruelty? :evil:


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## Kayty

Can't say that gait does anything for me, but each to their own.

As for the TWH/ASB's debate, well this could converge into EVERY breed and EVERY discipline out there. In dressage we have the idiots who jam their horses' chins to their chests for the whole ride in what is called 'rolkur'. There is always going to be the people out there who ruin the reputation for a sport/breed for everyone else participating because of their attempt to shortcut the training. 
In each and every discipline people will try to take shortcuts, when in the end you are not going to achieve the ultimate goal in each discipline unless you train slowly and correctly, not matter how many shortcuts you may take.

Unfortunately in seems to in most, if not all, equestrian disciplines, the more spectacular horses are often rewarded higher than the less spectacular but far more correct, comfortable and happy horses. This is way way our sports are going and so many are being brainwashed into thinking the spectacular way is the right way, it just is not!


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## southerncowgirl93

Kayty said:


> In each and every discipline people will try to take shortcuts, when in the end you are not going to achieve the ultimate goal in each discipline unless you train slowly and correctly, not matter how many shortcuts you may take.
> 
> Unfortunately it seems to in most, if not all, equestrian disciplines, the more spectacular horses are often rewarded higher than the less spectacular but far more correct, comfortable and happy horses. This is way way our sports are going and so many are being brainwashed into thinking the spectacular way is the right way, it just is not!


Right! It's all about politics. What horse is showier, which rider has made a better name for themselves(or do they ride at a well established barn), Which horse looks best, even if it is artificial? It's really annoying.


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## Phantomcolt18

This is horrible and i've heard of it before. Anyone with eyes can see those horses are in pain and that gait is so unnatural looking it doesn't flow like normal gaits. I dont know if anyone else has heard of this, but ive heard of people injecting curry under a horses skin also to make them lift their legs higher. Its all so cruel.


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## Sunny06

^ It's called mustard


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## Honeysuga

Curry powder and mustard are two different things. While curry does contain mustard seed, it also contains the spices cinnamon, clove, nutmeg, red pepper, black pepper and cumin, all very irritating substances, a veritable cocktail of pain and one I have no doubt is used.


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## Phantomcolt18

Sunny06 said:


> ^ It's called mustard


 really cause i heard straight curry?


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## Solon

O.M.G.

:evil:

I was at the State Fair about four years ago and was walking through the horse barns. The horses were some sort of gaited horses, not sure what breed but the people had their tails hitched up to some contraption across their back and they were apply some sort of paste under the horses tails. Don't know what it was, didn't stay around long enough to ask, but the horses were stomping in place - they sure didn't seem to be comfortable with whatever was going on back there.

Watched the showing, same horses come out with their tails sky high like some 80s girl with the straight up in the air bangs. Made me sick.


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## southerncowgirl93

Solon said:


> O.M.G.
> 
> :evil:
> 
> I was at the State Fair about four years ago and was walking through the horse barns. The horses were some sort of gaited horses, not sure what breed but the people had their tails hitched up to some contraption across their back and they were apply some sort of paste under the horses tails. Don't know what it was, didn't stay around long enough to ask, but the horses were stomping in place - they sure didn't seem to be comfortable with whatever was going on back there.
> 
> Watched the showing, same horses come out with their tails sky high like some 80s girl with the straight up in the air bangs. Made me sick.


That's called a brace/tail set. I don't really like a brace on the tail, but it's in the rules apparently.:-( However, they don't really hurt if they stretch the tail. Just push the tail as much as it can go up, and when the muscle is loose they put a brace on. Most people put a topical anesthetic on the tail in case. Still looks horrible. My flat shod horse flags her tail out. Not as drastic as those with a brace, but she carries it high. Cute on her actually.:lol:

As for the curry or mustard oil under the skin, unfortunately it does happen. But it can still cause blisters and scarring, which means they get caught. Plus it causes heat, and with the new machines they use, the trainer can get suspended. If they enforce the rules......


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## Solon

I can't believe people would use that stuff under their tail. And it's unfortunate judges weren't checking. Unless back then it wasn't being checked.

The whole tail thing doesn't make sense either. If the horses tail was meant to do that, it would. Some fool came along and decided it looked good, which is doesn't. So many people in the crowd were commenting on how unnatural and bad it looked.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand

Disgusting. IMO anyone caught soring their horse should have the horse taken from them and should never be allowed to own an animal again. :evil:

I think the Big Lick gait is SO ugly looking, I just don't understand how anyone can think it's pretty.


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## Honeysuga

It isn't the gait they find pretty it is the colorful ribbons and prize money...


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## Hoofprints in the Sand

Honeysuga said:


> It isn't the gait they find pretty it is the colorful ribbons and prize money...


Sad, but very true...


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## CecilliaB

Seems *** backwards to want to intentionally make your horse lame.

That would take any joy or fun out of showing or riding at all for that matter to know I was on a horse who was suffering.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand

CecilliaB said:


> Seems **** backwards* to want to intentionally make your horse lame.
> 
> That would take any joy or fun out of showing or riding at all for that matter to know I was on a horse who was suffering.


And that's exactly what those people are!


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## Honeysuga

lol, yup!! Screams uneducated backwater entertainment to me.


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## smrobs

That is just thoroughly disgusting. Those poor horses look so uncomfortable and that whole thing give the TWH industry a bad name because the big lick gets most of the publicity (most of it bad). 

This is what a TWH should travel like.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand

smrobs said:


> That is just thoroughly disgusting. Those poor horses look so uncomfortable and that whole thing give the TWH industry a bad name because the big lick gets most of the publicity (most of it bad).
> 
> This is what a TWH should travel like.
> YouTube - All Natural Tennessee Walking Horse Gelding BAREFOOT


WOW that looks like a comfy ride!!  I'd love to ride one of the NATURALLY gaited TWH's!!


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## Honeysuga

smrobs said:


> That is just thoroughly disgusting. Those poor horses look so uncomfortable and that whole thing give the TWH industry a bad name because the big lick gets most of the publicity (most of it bad).
> 
> This is what a TWH should travel like.
> YouTube - All Natural Tennessee Walking Horse Gelding BAREFOOT



But wait! Its head isn't cranked back!? No hyperflexion, no 11inch bit shanks, its **** is not on the ground???? That can't be beautiful and flashy....:twisted:

I think that is a lovely gait and looks very comfortable for both horse and rider(and adorable little boy!). To me that is a very flashy gait...It is fluid and clean with just a little bob, lovely.


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