# Black or Bay?



## Asimina (Apr 21, 2013)

I was playing around with one of the babies out at the barn today, and I was wondering what her coloring is? Mom was bay, dad is heterozygous bay. I've always just assumed bay, but she seems almost black right now... First 3 pics are from today, at 1.5 years old, last 2 are from a a little less than a year ago:


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

She's black. The reddish tint to her is just from sun-fading.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Asimina (Apr 21, 2013)

Thanks, I just wasn't sure what was faded and what wasn't lol.


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## lovelyStory (Oct 2, 2012)

absolutely stunning. <3


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## Tryst (Feb 8, 2012)

If the tobiano in the pictures is Mom she isn't bay either.


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## Asimina (Apr 21, 2013)

No, the tobiano is just her pasture buddy.
I just don't see her all that often and last time I saw her she was crazy sun bleached. Her coat is usually lightened to be a little more reddish brown than the third pic(blame florida's year round sun). 
It's nice to have someplace online to ask the stupid questions .


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## Kodachrome310 (Jun 29, 2014)

I agree, sun bleached black. The baby coats and winter coats can bleach a lot but her summer coat should stay dark...at least for a while. My black mustang gets SUPER bleached


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## happybunny070 (Feb 2, 2014)

No. This is infact a bay horse. A true black horse is extremely rare. Black 11 nucleotide deletion of this gene is the recessive form of the gene, witch the horse is homozygous for agouti. the bay gene is dominant to black, therefore because of the information given and picture she's clearly bay. Bay horses with one black Agouti gene tend to have black ears, and legs. This horse has white socks and shows very little black pigment. Science shows defiantly NOT black. Please don't post answers if you don't know what your talking about. 
My sources: 
Agouti Gene | Genetic Testing | Animal Genetics


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

HappyBunny... You are incorrect. Black is _not_ a rare color. The horse in question is a black horse, does not have agouti (bay/brown/wild bay). The horse in question is prone to color bleaching in the sun/from sweat. Many, MANY blacks are. That does not mean they are not black horses.


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## Carrie94 (Dec 2, 2014)

Interesting. I would have guessed brown.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

happybunny070 said:


> No. This is infact a bay horse. A true black horse is extremely rare. Black 11 nucleotide deletion of this gene is the recessive form of the gene, witch the horse is homozygous for agouti. the bay gene is dominant to black, therefore because of the information given and picture she's clearly bay. Bay horses with one black Agouti gene tend to have black ears, and legs. This horse has white socks and shows very little black pigment. Science shows defiantly NOT black. Please don't post answers if you don't know what your talking about.
> My sources:
> Agouti Gene | Genetic Testing | Animal Genetics


If "true blacks are extremely rare," how do you explain the THOUSANDS of tested homozygous black horses out there who carry no agouti? My gelding, although untested, is most likely homozygous black with absolutely no possibility of agouti. His dam was a homozygous black Percheron and his sire is a registered homozygous black paint. 

Agouti is not dominant over black. Agouti is a modifier of black. It restricts the expression of non-red (black) pigment to the hard points of the horse. This is why red-based horses can carry agouti, but it doesn't express because there is no non-red (black) for it to restrict. 

If the OP's horse's parents were heterozygous black and heterozygous agouti, it is entirely possible that the resulting foal (the OP's horse) would come out black. A simple punnit square will show that. Heterozygous black and agouti would be EeAa. Homozygous black and heterozygous agouti would be EEAa. If the horse did not inherit an agouti gene from one or both parents, there is absolutely no way it has agouti. Simple genetics.

I think you need to take your own advice about not posting if you don't have your facts straight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

happybunny070 said:


> No. This is infact a bay horse. A true black horse is extremely rare. Black 11 nucleotide deletion of this gene is the recessive form of the gene, witch the horse is homozygous for agouti. the bay gene is dominant to black, therefore because of the information given and picture she's clearly bay. Bay horses with one black Agouti gene tend to have black ears, and legs. This horse has white socks and shows very little black pigment. Science shows defiantly NOT black. Please don't post answers if you don't know what your talking about.
> My sources:
> Agouti Gene | Genetic Testing | Animal Genetics


Also, if you're going to quote a source, please make sure you actually understand what you're reading before claiming it supports what you're saying. I just read the link you provided and your source says exactly what I said in my previous post, just with more technical terms.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

happybunny070 said:


> Please don't post answers if you don't know what your talking about.


What excellent advice...


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

Yeah he looks like a black who has sun faded. Pretty boy.


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## HombresArablegacy (Oct 12, 2013)

I wouldn't care if she was purple, as she's gorgeous!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

What a gorgeous black filly. Shire or Clyde? Loving her build so much, especially for an age where she should be incredibly unbalanced....but isn't


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## Asimina (Apr 21, 2013)

Aww thanks for all the compliments! She's a drum horse, actually. her mom was registered shire, so not a bad guess 
I agree, she's absolutely gorgeous, I'm gonna be so tempted to buy her if I ever have the money lying around lol, she's a sweetie.


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