# collection again



## tim (Dec 31, 2007)

Well having a rounded back and deep hocks is often just a trait of the horse. It can take months of intensive riding to get a horse to properly lift it's back that otherwise wouldn't do it. My horse is an example of this. And after you get it rounding it's back, you have to constantly maintain it.

I wouldn't worry about all that crap about collection and headset and rouding. It's more about movement, and what comes naturally to your horse.

This is the only way to really visualize it -- 

*Here is what happens when a horse rounds it's back.*








This would be why pleasure horses should have a rounder back. It improves the topline and gives them that suspended look which will allow them to move flatter and smoother.

*This is the opposite.*








As you can see, this is somewhat like what the dressage horse you posted is doing. It's head is in a position that requires a more hollow back. Also, the position of it's hind legs would suggest a more hollow back as well. Though, I wouldn't call this a problem. It's just that a hollow back serves the position of the dressage horse better than a rounded back would.


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## SonnyWimps (Feb 22, 2008)

so then Sonny, if I stick with dressage, is correct when he has the headset, but not the rounded back?

Also, if I switch back to western riding, and do possibly competitive trails or some other western stuff, would I particually need the rounded back? How would I go about achieving the rounded back?

Well I've heard from many people, including my instructor and my best friend that having a horse not collected can cause a sway back in their older years...where as a horse that collects himself will have less of a sway back if any. I definately don't want Sonny to have a sway back (but then again what happens will happen)...so I thought that dressage work might help with that.

Thanks for the input, Tim!!! The pictures helped explain alot also


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## Abby (Nov 26, 2007)

http://www.equusite.com/articles/riding/ridingCollection.shtml


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

In western is all your horse. If it carries itself or not.


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

.Delete. said:


> In western is all your horse. If it carries itself or not.


Therefore....you must teach him to self carry and collect with very subtle cues.


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## SonnyWimps (Feb 22, 2008)

AKPaintLover said:


> .Delete. said:
> 
> 
> > In western is all your horse. If it carries itself or not.
> ...


and how would I do that?


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## tim (Dec 31, 2007)

In time, you will learn the ways of the force.


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

This is a quote of my response to your post in the critique section:



> okay...I am wondering if your trainer is clear on all of the elements of collection? I am not the best to explain it...I can feel it, see it, and slightly describe it, but there are others on here who might be able to give you a very clear explanation.
> 
> One of the things that I have learned is that when starting out in working toward collection...getting the head on vertical is NOT the major focus.
> 
> ...


There are many additional ways to work on collection, but I have to go at the moment.  Others may have some great exercises for you too.


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## SonnyWimps (Feb 22, 2008)

the problem with pushing Sonny on with my legs and seat is that he's REALLY sensitive about my cues. And any little thing will drive him faster. So I'm working on desensitizing him a little bit so he won't speed up into a canter when I don't want him to.

I do use half-halts to get him to keep his headset and to maintain a fairly good temp for his gaits


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## SonnyWimps (Feb 22, 2008)

http://s263.photobucket.com/albums/ii121/Sonnywhimpsgunshot/pic

How good is he, collection wise, in this video? His back does look rounded actually but I'm not sure if it's just because of the western saddle pad.


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## SonnyWimps (Feb 22, 2008)

tim said:


> In time, you will learn the ways of the force.


haha


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

SonnyWimps said:


> the problem with pushing Sonny on with my legs and seat is that he's REALLY sensitive about my cues. And any little thing will drive him faster. So I'm working on desensitizing him a little bit so he won't speed up into a canter when I don't want him to.
> 
> I do use half-halts to get him to keep his headset and to maintain a fairly good temp for his gaits


Coming from the perspective of a horse that is very hard to get impulsion from - I do not reccomend trying to desensitize to your legs. His sensitivity just means that you probably don't need spurs or other aids and that you will not have to drive as hard. To achieve the impulsion you need, you should drive him forward to some extent...you just have to work with him that it doesn't mean canter. 

I cannot emphasize enough that the serpentines will help with that! if you have a problem with your horse rushing when your drive, or at other times, serpentines will help. Turning small like that (in the serpentines), will pevent him from cantering (unless he is truely collected). 

whatever exercises you use, drive to achieve impulsion and soft, well recieved bit contact are major factors in collection. 

give the serpentines a try and see if you can't keep him from canterng. Also, in the serpentines, you only add drive after you pick up inside rein contact and he doesn't drop his head. Once he drops, you remove drive. From the sound of it, you wont need much drive. You may have to turn you turn into a circle and go round several times before he drops his head though. The more you do serpentines, the more you will notice he picks up a steady, rhythmic, and balanced pace. 

AK showgirl rides my gelding, and rides english, where I ride western, and I suggested to her to drive him out of his serpentine turns into more of an extended trot to work on pace variation also.  That could be fun too.


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## SonnyWimps (Feb 22, 2008)

I will try those...and hopefully they will help!


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## regardinghorses (Oct 26, 2007)

At least for an English horse, the headset comes as a result of the collection ... a rounded back, impulsion, reaching under with the hind end. The collection is not a result of the headset. However, the aids for getting both work hand in hand. Both can be a result of the combination of driving your horse forward and using half halts. 

Keep in mind that dressage horses couldn't move the way they do if they didn't round through their backs and move properly. It's just a different look of the topline between dressage and western because of the varying headsets. Their backs don't always look round because they swing up and down with the movement. The important part, like others have said, is that your horse carries himself and is well balanced and fluid.


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