# Horse shows are cruel and horsemen are idiots.



## SorrelHorse

Please kill me now. Or at least completely block me form these videos, because I'm obsessed with the wackiness...





 
What really kills me about this guy is that he STARTS going in the right direction, then BAM he goes off on a huge rant with ridiculous ideas about what "Actually happens" in this arena.

What is this STUPID idea about barb wire making a reining horse plant their feet? Deadened tail and ear nerves (Illegal btw)? Marbels in the shoes? SHOCKING?

Sure, you get those idiots at the run-down rodeos with them crazy cowboys who are shocking all those bucking horses...But for the love of god, when was the last time you saw ANY decent rodeo do that? The bucking straps are lined with fleece for christ's sake....

I've never done any of those ridiculous tricks he's come up with. Have you?


----------



## ridergirl23

If only i knew all those tricks before show season ended.... oh well, next year 
honestly don't let it bother you, he's just one of those extreme people. Theres no use arguing with him, he seems pretty stubborn, lol. oh well, i enjoy my horse shows, I think i need to make me one of those, what was it?, the 'i love me' wall or something? hahaha. 
Does anyone know where i can buy some marbles?


----------



## AmazinCaucasian

You hit the nail on the head SorrelHorse! I love to hate him too. I saw him ride for the first time last night. Hahahahaha!!!! OMG he rides a horse just like you'd expect a retarded loud-mouth truck-driver gunsel to ride. Looks like a monkey on a sheepdog. Has no control of where his horse is going. His horses have no rate and just go where they want with their head in the air (big surprise, huh?) And he's GIVING PEOPLE INSTRUCTION! I can only imagine the people who show up at his "clinics".

The thing is, he insults people who have skill, experience, and knowledge. Tells his followers that people who show are cruel? Gimme a break! He would never be competitive at a show or contest, so he runs them down and says "I'd never do that because it's cruel". He likes to put down reiners and accuse them of cruelty. But he will never never never reach the skill level or even scratch the surface of what these folks know. And the people he's insulting are easier on the horses than Gore is because they tech a horse to be soft and responsive so you don't have to pull on them. Rick's horses will always be stiff and he'll always have to pull. He's a joke but it makes for good watchin'


----------



## RunJumpRide

I may be wrong, but isn't this dude the same guy that said disciplining your horse is cruelty, too? :-|
Just smile and wave. The only thing he's doing is making a fool of himself.


----------



## Crossover

He does realize the horse he's filming is in field fence which could be potentially dangerous?

I'm sure the horse whose being bounced on by him feels its being used cruelly.


----------



## SorrelHorse

I have to say I'm extremely glad I'm not the only one....The complete ridiculous antics of this guy just drives me up the wall!

If that's how you make good reiners, I must have had barbwire around my horses legs, shoved a sharp piece of metal into his mouth when he was started and practiced running him into the wall to teach him to slide.

'cause, ya know....Teaching turnaround without barb wire is impossible...and I totally didn't start my colt in a bosal, then snaffle, then the gentlest curb I could find. And I totally didn't allow his brakes to build up through gentle reinforcement of the cue. Because I'm an idiot show person who doesn't care about my horses and I only do it because I might get a check. And I also totally deadened the nerves in my horses ears and tail - Hence why h never shows any sign of irritation. Did I deaden the nerves in his hind legs too? Cause he's never bucked either.


----------



## kevinshorses

I've never heard of cutting the nerves in a horses ears (I'm pretty sure it would make thier ears flop around) or the marbles but most of the other stuff really does happen and happens quite a lot but I don't see what his little temper tantrum is going to solve. I don't show because I don't want to do what it takes to win and I don't want to waste my money losing. If you really want to be a competitive in many events then you WILL have to be quite brutal with your horse.


----------



## bubba13

What's funny is that I got a comment on one of my YouTube videos saying that I'm "much better than that horseawareness guy." I'll take the compliment!


----------



## ridergirl23

The thing that bugs me though (and maybe its like this in other disciplines?) but he talks about how you have to do cruel things to win like everyone else..... but My trainer (i won't say me because i don't win so much, lol! and I'm not at such big shows) wins all the time in dressage and she would never be able to do anything like that to her horse, if she could she wouldn't be my coach! 
but maybe thats different in other places?


----------



## haleylvsshammy

Marbles? Really? Hmm... strange because I've seen babies step nice and high and my friend has barefoot horses who are high steppers and have lots of action. Does he not realize that some breeds of horses are naturally high steppers?

Funny how he's giving advice to everybody on how to properly "discipline" a horse when he lets his horses push him around.


----------



## ReiningGirl

Just went and checked out his YouTube page and watched a few others. This guy is a nut job. His videos on how to start a young horse are TERRIBLE advice. He pretty much tells you to start laying on the horses back and practice jumping like you're mounting it. Sounds safe, right? Because unbroken young horses never do anything dangerous when you do that, right?? There is nothing about ground work and respect training, which shows in the way his horse tries to pull a blanket out of his hand, moves its hindquarters INTO him and is generally pushy and nosey. Plus his response to some honest comments from people are RUDE, MEAN and IMMATURE. If you can't take criticism, then you sure as hell shouldnt be giving it! He slams dressage, polo, barrel racing, reining, jumping and racing. Granted there are people in these disciplines that may use cruel methods, but those are the MINORITY. A good, honest horseman has their horses respect and rides with respect in regards to the horse. End of story. His online rants make him look like an idiot.


----------



## eliduc

Hey. I've seen some of those monkeys that can ride pretty well. Vick's vapor rub under the tails of gaited horses. Sawed in half golf balls under the pads of walking horses. Cosmetic surgery performed on the eyes of arabian horses. Arsenic in feed to make the horse look fat and shiny. Shooting the horse up with all kinds of drugs to enhance performance, tranquilize them or mask pain. Most of us do not resort to those disgusting tactics but they have all been used in the show environment. 
Here are some the things that we do. Shortening a horse's useful life by jumping it repeatedly over almost impossible jumps. Sliding stops, spins, roll backs. Gymkhana. We exploit the horse as soon as we place it in an unnatural environment and get on it's back. The questions are how far is a person willing to go in the exploitation of their horse and for what purpose? Too often, especially in the show ring people are feeding their egos to the detriment of their horses. It's a matter of values and ethics. When winning becomes too important it's time to quit.


----------



## ReiningGirl

I agree with you Eliduc! There are all kinds of nasty methods to make horses look, act or seem like they enjoy their job or preform better. It seems like all we hear about is the bad in shows, or those people who push their horse's health and well being to the brink to win. Once your horse's health becomes secondary to a ribbon or a little bit of cash, it's time to step back or quit. While I may not agree with Rick Gore's methods or training techniques (and I'm sure there are those who don't approve of the trainer's I like), I DO agree with his anger towards these creul methods of training. It needs to stop, and until the horse community is willing to have a zero tolerance policy against such things as a whole, they will continue to happen.


----------



## horsinaround39x

I've only been in 4 horse shows, i won high point in 3 of them, and i have never EVER done any other that to any of my horses. I'm not saying i'm the best rider in the world, i know i'm not, and i know i have a lot to learn, but you dont have to be cruel to be good, just because HE sucks doesn't mean other horseman are only successful because they are cruel...


----------



## COWCHICK77

This guy can't even get his terminology correct. When was the last time you seen your horse "wag his tail"? Dog, yes. Horse, no.

I consider myself lucky to have had my living either cowboying or working for a trainer. I was extremely lucky to work for a trainer who is a world champion in the AQHA, NRCHA or and has won the Magnificent 7 and is contender in the Worlds Greatest Horseman. As far as reining and cowhorses these practices were never used. Anymore if you have to resort to gimmicks your not going to make it as a top showman or trainer. I learned from going to these shows with these trainers is that they respect each other and like to learn from each other. There has been several times that the same guys they will be competing against in the next show will stop by with a trailer load of horses and they will all ride together and offer advice on each others horses to help improve them.(None of the advice offered had anything to do with barbwire on a pivot foot.) 

Then onto bucking horses, my husband worked for a rodeo company. He was a pick up man and trained the baby bulls and horses. They do not shock these horses or bulls to make them buck! Just like show horses bucking stock is a huge investment and they are bred to buck!!!

This guy is very close minded. He will never be a good horseman for this reason. That's why I think these forums are great, everyone one has different backgrounds and you can learn a little something from everybody! And if you have knowledge, why not share it to help someone else?


----------



## eliduc

*unethical trainers*

Yes, that's right. Dogs wag and horses swish. I bought an oil painting when I was at Mule Days in Bishop, California. It was of a horse and cowboy cutting a cow. I had it up over my mantle for years but something about it never did look quite right. Then one day a friend looked at it and said, "that horse has a cow's tail." Danged if he wasn't right. I jerked that painting down so fast. I don't remember what ever happened to it; probably a yard sale. There will always be so called trainers who resort to gimmicks. They are the ones that can't make it honestly or have a horse that isn't quite up to par. The really great ones don't have to resort to gimmicking. The great ones are in the minority or they wouldn't be so great. That's not to say that most trainers are not ethical but there are always a few bad apples spoiling the barrel. One thing I have seen time and again is barns overcrowded with horses in training that seldom get taken out of their stalls. People spend big money on a big name trainer who is only interested in the horses that will make him look good and that he can win on. The others languish. There are other unethical practices too, like overcharging the client on the farrier bill or vet bill or for work that wasn't even performed. People really need to monitor their horses when they send them out to make sure they are being properly trained and cared for and that they are getting what they pay for. A friend was given a free horse that supposedly had three months training. The horse is a six year old and has never been touched.


----------



## Saddlebag

The last show I attended, about 3 yrs ago, the judge did nothing when a gal in a trail class began yanking her horse's mouth because it wouldn't sidepass over a thin log. 3 yard yanks, When I showed years ago I'd have been excused if I'd done that. At the same show, outside the ring, a gal was yanking her horse to back then spurring it forward. About the 6th time I was about to say something when one of the club executive asked me not to make waves. I didn't, but those two incidents really soured me on going to shows.


----------



## New_image

I just ran into this on my facebook a few days back, he isn't "completely" off his rocker. How true this particular thing is I am not sure, just jumped to mind when I read the nonchalant mocking of this guys video as these things do happen.

This was shot at the IALHA Sat. p.m. When brought to the show manager's attention, she said she had been in touch with the club, but would let the horse continue under these conditions as it was a non regular class (exhibition). Perhaps this is not in the best interest of the horse. Let the IALHA (International Andalusian Lusitano Horse Association) what you think.


----------



## SorrelHorse

New Image - I saw that picture too the other day.

I'm wondering if the rowel area is on the side of those? I can't see what kind of spur it actually is. If they can do it with those tiny little english nub spurs (I have no technical term, excuse my terminology) then imagine what they can do with those big western spurrs O.O

I've seen "Bumper spurs" that have a series of sharp rowels along the side. I like bumper purs when they are just that: Bumpers.

Like these










But not these


----------



## Kashmere

Wow the pic with the horse and the spurs.. Disgusting!
I barely barely wear spurs, and when I do, I make sure to never jam em or even try to push them against the horse unless my other cues don't work :0

Can't believe they let the horse still compete :C
(Can't believe even more if someone is that careless. If I was THAT person, I'd bow my head in shame and never wear spurs again!)


----------



## Celeste

There are idiots in every form of showing. The Tennessee Walkng Horses endure all kind of crap. 

What possible use would a marble be in horse training? Honestly, I missed out on that. Maybe somebody lost their marbles?


----------



## bubba13

No, it really is true that Big Lick people have been known to place marbles or half golf balls below horses' pads to put painful pressure on the sole and improve the stepping action.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians

I didn't make it to 30 seconds before I checked out and said, "F*n Wing Nut....."


----------



## corporate pride

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: look found a picture of him riding!


----------



## Celeste

bubba13 said:


> No, it really is true that Big Lick people have been known to place marbles or half golf balls below horses' pads to put painful pressure on the sole and improve the stepping action.


They are going to go to hell............


----------



## Katesrider011

I take people like the person in the video with a grain of salt and move on. Not much else you can do. Can't change people's opinions.


----------



## caseymyhorserocks

I have heard of marbles in their feet. If you look at the big idea of what he is saying- it does make a little sense. I mean, horses are often pushed to do things that isnt to great for their bodies (i mean like the marbles in their hooves and stuff). Now, I do show, but I am careful to provide plenty of rest for my horse, and not push her to hard. And some of his stuff is quite ridiculous...


----------



## AmazinCaucasian

How to teach your horse that nipping is okay. And how to get kicked in the face (by Rick Gore Horsemanship) Another dandy instructional video that'll get you hurt if you listen to morons. Did I mention I hate this guy?


----------



## kevinshorses

If that horse wanted to kick him he would have been unable to give quick discipline. He coldn't have given any discipline until he was done with physical therapy and all the pins were removed from his leg! My 8 year old son knows the proper way to pick up a foot, maybe he should do a you tube video.


----------



## THN

My TWH had heavy chains before i got him. Poor guy. And I'm sure they did the crap under the tail to get him to hold it up. And pads on his fronts. Yah, he's a rescue and has the scars to show it. TWHs get a lot of the cruelty in the show ring. I'm all for letting the horse gate naturally without the aid of torture devices. I don't know how he associates evil people with shows, because not all evil people show horses. Some are politicians, some are businessmen, and others have Youtube chanels. oh wait, the last one isn't evil, he's just an idiot.


----------



## eliduc

*spurs*

What bothers me about this post is the mistaken notion that roweled western spurs are more severe than English post spurs. Of course, they can be severe but nobody uses the Spanish rowels with the long spikes. Modern spurs have humane rowels. The rotation insures that the horse is not getting jabbed by a stationary spike which the English post spur basically is. The photo is a good example of the damage that can be done. The object is not to gig or rake the poor horse, no matter what type spur but to cue it with the spur. Any spur can be made to be abusive. Basically, misusing a spur is no different than yanking on a bit. Nothing will make a horse slab sided faster than overusing a spur.


----------



## SorrelHorse

I wasn't saying that the rowels were inhumane, but IMO, I don't like the side rowels. If you have a differant opinion then that's fine.


----------



## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr

Oh I am a HUGE natural horsemanship and Rick Gore fan. When you look deeper into what he says rather than based on what you have only been taught, there is a huge amount of understanding there.


----------



## oakweb

that's not nice..they should treat animals like humans..:-(. God also view there lives as precious as humans..


----------



## Celeste

Cruelty to horses is obviously bad.

I am concerned, however, with this guy's video where he is talking about teaching a horse not to kick. He is using a horse that is already trained in this video. If he used a totally unbroke horse, going under it like he does would be EXTREMELY dangerous. The "kicking" video is shallow and tells nothing about how to teach a horse not to kick. He acts as if the horse is a big lap dog.


----------



## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr

I never understood the kicking video at first, but I do now. The reason he says it is because if a horse is kicking out, then you gave it a reason to in the first place. You give a stimulus and the horse responds. What people don't realise is that they probably gave it the wrong stimulus in the first place and then the horse responded accordingly (because horses can only react how nature told them to) Had you not given it the wrong stimulus, then it wouldn't have kicked. If a horse kicks you, it will be because 1) you misread the signs 2) you ambushed the horse 3) its testing you because of your lack of leadership 4) you give it too much pressure and sent it into fight mode... basically it all comes down to you because at the end of the day, there are no 'horse problems' only 'people problems'. I:e: 'never the horse's fault'.


----------



## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr

p.s. I think he doesn't not like shows, he doesn't like the treatment some horses recieve at shows and generalises them.


----------



## Celeste

I haven't shown horses in over 30 years. 

I have been kicked several times in the past few years. If you work with horses, eventually, you will find one that kicks you. It does not have to be something that you did wrong. It could be something that someone that handled the horse before you did wrong. 

If you watch horses in the pasture, they will trade places in the dominance hierarchy. Any self respecting horse will eventually challenge his or her leader. It is what nature has planned for them. Hopefully a well trained horse will not challenge you, but a young untrained horse will. It is just their nature. 

Also, accidents can happen and putting yourself in dangerous positions can get you killed. Crawling under a green horse is always a dangerous position. One of the worst kicks that I ever recieved was aimed at the farm dog. The dog was annoying the horse. The horse had bad aim and I had bad luck. Had my head been under that horse, I would be dead. 

Anyone feeling suicidal should consider walking under a half-trained two-year-old Egyptian Arab stallion. I will pass on that myself..........

(I would have no problem walking under that horse from the video except for maybe the position might cause more creaking of my arthritis...... )


----------



## bjb

Seriously nobody should listen to this guy! Sure probably some sick people out there do these twisted things but not EVERYONE. Hes a very arrogant self obsorbed person. He acts like hes the only person in the world who "understands" horses. He claims to be trying to educate people for the horses sake, yet if anyone asks a simple quesstion he goes on some rude disrespectful rant of how terrible and stupid you are. .....youd think if he was honestly trying to Better your horsemanship hed try a little harder to be nice and not scare people off.

So in my opinion he only does these videos to prove to everyone else how great he is, and how bad you are. Its an ego thing
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr

I would think one would be a bit silly if you were to walk under a horse without preparing it first. Can't remember if he said it in this video or another, but he does say you can't just do it without preparing. A foal will walk under its mother and the mother will know its there and will not hurt it and that is the same idea. If you have alot of trust built, it can be done. I do it. lol. (But not when there are loads of flies!!) If you get to understand what he says, yes, you can come to realise some people's questions are stupid. Once you get to that stage (and yes I was there once) you realise 'you get it'.
No matter if the kicking was a behaviour created by a previous handler, if you get kicked (and I have been more than once) you were the one to trigger the response from the horse. I'm not going to approach any horse I don't know near its butt and get myself kicked and then say it wasn't my fault.

Even if it is an ego thing, (personally I dont think it is) there is no other trainer that gives out as much information as readily as him for free. He's all about helping the horses have better lives, he don't care much what people think. The info is great. I would seriously advise anyone to read through everything before assumptions are made up about him.


----------



## kevinshorses

oakweb said:


> that's not nice..they should treat animals like humans..:-(. God also view there lives as precious as humans..


 
I think if the animals could speak for themselves they would ask to be treated like animals NOT humans. A horse does best when it is recognized as a horse and treated accordingly. A dog does best when it has a strong leader and set boundaries. The worst behaving animals I've ever seen have been those that are treated like furry children.


----------



## Celeste

"If horses could talk"................
They do. You have to learn to listen. 

The horse in the video obviously was a dead broke horse. He gave every signal that he was laid back and was not going to hurt the guy; therefore, it was fine to walk under him. The video was presented as if it were going to teach you how to prevent kicking. If you read his instructions to say "buy a trained horse" then it was a good video. If you read in instructions to say "handle my green young colt like this", then you are going to die.

I have no interest in attacking the guy or his videos. This video should not stand alone. The only use for it is to show how nice a broken horse is.


----------



## eliduc

*Furry kids*

Kevin, amen to that. And then when their rank horse acts up the first thing they say is, "He was abused by a man when he was two weeks old." How many times have you heard that? If their horse is rank then a man must have made it that way. Maybe it comes from those movies where it is always a cruel man who abuses horses. I don't want to sound chauvanistic but it is usually women who make this comment. It got so bad I used to make a joke out of it and say, "This horse must have been abused by a woman when it was younger," as soon their horse started acting up. The sad part is that it is often true. The rankest horses I have ever encountered were the ones with no boundaries or discipline. They are a lot like kids with one difference; A horse just begs to know where the boundaries are and is much happier when it knows where it stands. This doesn't mean that it should be abused, just taught respect. In answer to the other post. I have no tolerance for articles or videos that show trainers doing dangerous things with horses. Years ago a prominent magazine had an article which showed, I should say promoted a trainer who is shown mounting a two year old thoroughbred for the first time in a 12 x 12 concrete block barn stall. It was an irresponsible representation for both the magazine and the trainer. Sure the trainer gets away with it until he doesn't. This is a fairly common practice on race tracks where the horses are never taught anything useful anyway. Some kid will look at the pictures and think that this is the way it should be done and get killed. Another picture showed the trainer approaching the horse, which was backed into a corner. The bridal was held in two hands with one hand on the crown piece and the other on the bit right in front of the horses face. It looked like he was going to try to jam the curb bit into the horse's mouth while standing in front of the horse. It would have been a great what not to do article if they would have had a brain.


----------



## AmazinCaucasian

I agree too with Kevin and eliduc. I've also heard the phrase "He was abused by a man," usually followed by "I rescued him!" Nonsense. If I had a dime for every time I heard that! What they assumed was, that if a horse was scared of humans, it must have been beaten. Usually it was "you can't touch his head because he was hit in the head when he was little." And yes eliduc it is almost always women. Nothing against women at all, but it's their nature to think it was roughed up and so they nurture that animal like they would their child. Now these are novice women I'm talking about. Some of the best horsemen I know are women. Eliduc, my kids watch those movies you're talking about. It chaps my butt to see the same plot over and over.....A mean man abuses the horse and the young girl then earns it's trust and they "bond" and love each other. 

This is WAY off topic, but another pet peeve of mine is how in kid's movies they represent wild animals as a cuddly companion that kids can play with. I know, I know, it's up to the parents to teach them what's not safe. But now I must tell my 4 year old that the movie that just tugged on their heartstrings is BS and you don't approach a mountain lion or bear because they'll eat you. "Daddy's mean! And he probably abuses horses too"


----------



## AmazinCaucasian

After re-reading my post, I see that I pretty much said the same thing eliduc said. Oh well, his post was good enough it beared repeating


----------



## wild_spot

Can I just say - the only time I have ever been kicked was standing behind a pony, taking off her tail wrap after traveling. A dog walked behind me and she kicked at the dog but got me. This is my fault how?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## kevinshorses

You were standing behind the pony instead of to the side.


----------



## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr

Not being aware enough of the chance that the horse could kick out at the dog. Similiar to the last time I got kicked. I was in between my youngster and a higher mare. I wasn't paying attention and he kicked out at her getting me caught in between. Totally my fault for not being aware of what was going on around me and missing the signs before it happened.


----------



## smrobs

Wow, what a friggin cluck. I feel dumber now for having watched a couple of his videos. The pali that he uses in most of his videos is very gentle, luckily for him. Shoot, I've got 3 horses in my barn right now that would crush him in an instant if he tried some of that crap with them.

The last vid of his I watched was the one about neck reining. Does it strike anyone else as odd that I have a colt with 12 rides on him that neck reins better, stands still better, and basically just handles better in _every_ way than his old "broke" horse that he was using as an example?


----------



## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr

Why be so hateful towards him? Every horse is different. The palomino (Buddy) is an extremely inquisitive horse. You can tell that from the videos. What bit do you use for your colt?


----------



## smrobs

Not being hateful, I'm being truthful. I _do_ feel dumber for having listened to him. Anyone with a half a lick of horse savvy can watch any number of his videos and pick them completely apart. He's doing this wrong and that wrong and showing people this and that is a good way to get some innocent, ignorant horse owner hurt or killed. Just like crawling under the horse, I know I _could_ do that on my broke horses but I choose not to because no horse is 100% trustworthy all the time and there is just absolutely no _legitimate_ reason to take the risk. AND, I would most certainly not be putting out videos telling people "This is a good way to get your horse gentle and broke and get them used to being handled and this will teach them not to kick". What complete and utter BS, not to mention the complete lack of sensibility and responsibility it shows to introduce that act to owners who just don't know any better. It's just asking for someone to get themselves killed.

As for "Buddy" being inquisitive...what exactly does that have to do with the price of rice in China? IME, inquisitive horses are the ones that learn faster and are more eager and willing...so why doesn't "Buddy" handle like a _good_ horse? Why does he still root his nose out against the halter that he's being ridden in? Being inquisitive still doesn't excuse the constant nibbling and the hands either, that just shows a lack of respect and good manners. Why can't he just stand still when he's told to? He's constantly fidgeting around and creeping one way or another. _Good_ horses don't do that.

And can I just say that if this is the quality of rider that people are looking to for _good_ information and _good_ teaching, then I truly pity their horses.


----------



## Celeste

I am a woman and I have a very low tolerance for obnoxious horses (and children for that matter.) I have been kicked, stomped, thrown off and such as much as anybody. I did not respond by feeding the horse a bucket of sweet feed and putting him in the barn...........

I should be mad at you men for your sexist replies; however, I pretty much agree with you. A lot of women spoil their horses rotten. 

I am a woman that rides an Arabian, but as a veterinarian, women with Arabians (that are amateurs) tend to make me cringe. 

Real horsewomen ride, train, etc. as well as men. It is just pretty popular for women to get horses and treat them like pets. For that matter, a lot of men think that their horse is trained after one ride. The more they ride, the worse they get. 

Spoiled and pampered by a gentle woman or annoyed half to death by a pseudo-cowboy; either way, the horse is confused and angry and no fun to ride.


----------



## smrobs

Celeste said:


> Spoiled and pampered by a gentle woman or annoyed half to death by a pseudo-cowboy; either way, the horse is confused and angry and no fun to ride.


This is true, but I've also run into a fair amount of people that go the opposite way, women who sneak 3 rides on a colt and then nag them to death and start calling them "broke" and men who give treats and want nothing more than to be the horse's "friend". I have no problem with anyone of any sex having, owning, training horses...so long as they take the time to learn what needs to be done and how to handle things. 

There is nothing more dangerous to other people or hard on horses than some idiot (woman or man) who _thinks_ they know more than they actually do.

Oh...wait...that kinda describes Rick Gore :rofl:.

ETA: Oh, wow, this is even better. Not only does he describe how women are completely unsuitable to be horse owners, but "What do I care if he's in front of me. I don't care if I'm rubbing his butt... He's a good ol' boy... If he wants to walk in front of me on the way back to the barn today, by gosh, he can walk where he wants. He gave me a good ride, he carried me for 3 or 4 hours and he's tired." :roll::roll:


----------



## highlonesome

*Geez...*

Who's the bigger idiot...the guy fleecing you 49.95 for the video,200.00 to attend the friggin "clinic",and umpten hundreds on the "suggested training tools"?OR the the people paying,attending,and listening to him?


----------



## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr

There is nothing more dangerous to other people or hard on horses than some idiot (woman or man) who _thinks_ they know more than they actually do.



Never a truer word was said. And it's whether the listener decides to be a sheep or not.


----------



## smrobs

ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr said:


> Never a truer word was said. And it's whether the listener decides to be a sheep or not.


That's right and it makes me glad that I'm not some mindless minion that goes around spouting "OMG, he's such a geenius. He has a hunnerd vids on You-boob, he _must_ know what he's talking about. I'm going to believe every word that comes out of his mouth and defend his opinions 'til my dying breath....blah, blah, blah."

Never mind taking the time and effort to spend my life working with a _real_ trainer that has _actual_ accomplishments to claim and horses that are so nice I would be _honored_ to put my saddle on, spending my time learning horses by actually handling a few hundred of them, and making my own conclusions about what works and what doesn't by asking questions of people who _have_ actually been there and done that and finding out the rest for myself.


----------



## MHFoundation Quarters

smrobs said:


> There is nothing more dangerous to other people or hard on horses than some idiot (woman or man) who _thinks_ they know more than they actually do.


Darn straight. 

New avatar a new client horse robs? Cute!


----------



## KatieQ

This is the first time I have ever even heard of this guy- is he really for real?? Or are these videos some kind of a joke!


----------



## smrobs

MHFQ, nah, he's not so new, I've had him for a while. Very nice little guy though, going to make an excellent kid horse with a couple more years under his belt and a few more thousand miles . He's about as brave a horse as I've ever ridden...and smart.


----------



## pintophile

Rick Gore=:rofl:


----------



## eliduc

Celest, I should have qualified that people who make that comment are not exactly accomplished horsewomen/men. It goes without saying that there are many women who are wonderful equestrians. Look no further than the United States Equestrian Team. Often it is women who are great instructors. It wasn't my intent to put down women horse owners, just the ones that have that mind set. I have seen it in men too but not as often. It is true that women often use a little more finesse and are more subtle where men let their pride get in the way and force an issue if they are not careful. Some of the stupidest horse owners I have seen have been men. I didn't want to upset myself by watching the video but it sounds like this guy is one of them.


----------



## eliduc

*where not to be-inbetween*

I was sitting on a bucket milking a gentle Jersey cow once. She was more or less ground tied in the barnyard. Her calf ran up and she cow kicked at it. I was in between and she sent me *** over teakettle and I did a backwards somersault off that bucket. Spilled the milk too. I had a client that was on one of those rides with a bunch of other riders. A horse kicked at his horse when he was in the saddle and broke his leg right below the knee. It didn't heal well and almost had to be amputated.


----------



## Celeste

I watched the video about teaching a horse to trot and canter. He did not tell anybody anything. He said to cluck to make the horse trot, then instead he used the term "trot". It would be nice if it were as simple as he makes it out to be. 

He looks like Steve Martin, but he is not funny. What a rip.

I didn't watch the video that explains why I can't succeed as a horseman because I am female. I am afraid that is will make me want to hunt him down and whoop his rear.


----------



## smrobs

Eh, Celeste, that vid about why women fail would actually be funny if it weren't so pathetic. He talks all this nonsense about how women can't make up their mind about what to do in an emergency situation and how they tend to just let the horse do whatever they want instead of being the leader. That's why the whole thing about him just letting his horse walk completely in front of him on the way back to the barn and just not care because the horse is "a good old boy" and "tired because I rode him for 3 or 4 hours" is just friggin' stupid.

I also love that anyone who _doesn't_ comment on his video with things that say "OMG, you're soooo smart...You know sooo much....everyone should be like you" gets a childish remark back and then is blocked so they can no longer comment :rofl:. If that doesn't absolutely _scream_ arrogant, ignorant CHILD, I don't know what does.


----------



## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr

smrobs said:


> That's right and it makes me glad that I'm not some mindless minion that goes around spouting "OMG, he's such a geenius. He has a hunnerd vids on You-boob, he _must_ know what he's talking about. I'm going to believe every word that comes out of his mouth and defend his opinions 'til my dying breath....blah, blah, blah."
> 
> Never mind taking the time and effort to spend my life working with a _real_ trainer that has _actual_ accomplishments to claim and horses that are so nice I would be _honored_ to put my saddle on, spending my time learning horses by actually handling a few hundred of them, and making my own conclusions about what works and what doesn't by asking questions of people who _have_ actually been there and done that and finding out the rest for myself.


How cool. That makes two of us then. :wink: I would just hope anyone reading this would not have a preconceited idea of him because of some posts on a forum. At the end of the day, all we have is opinions which are NOT FACTS. However, the answers horses give ARE facts which speak for themselves, so does the info.
Some people like Parelli, some don't. Some like Clint, some don't. Some like Rick, some don't. Just because a percentage do and a percentage don't, it doesn't mean one is right over the other. And it doesn't mean you should take everything a person says (because you like them) as gospel.


----------



## touchofsleep

Just this guys voice erks me


----------



## kevinshorses

ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr said:


> How cool. That makes two of us then. :wink: I would just hope anyone reading this would not have a preconceited idea of him because of some posts on a forum. At the end of the day, all we have is opinions which are NOT FACTS. However, the answers horses give ARE facts which speak for themselves, so does the info.
> Some people like Parelli, some don't. Some like Clint, some don't. Some like Rick, some don't. Just because a percentage do and a percentage don't, it doesn't mean one is right over the other. And it doesn't mean you should take everything a person says (because you like them) as gospel.


In my opinion you could mute the sound and compare the different clinicians horses and come to a good conclusion. Watch a Buck Brannaman video on youtube then watch Rick Gore and tell me who the real horseman is.


----------



## kevinshorses

Here's one I picked at random.


----------



## jmdnarri

Yes abuses do happen, there are methoods he didn't mention, but I don't think this guy has the skill to get anything accomplished through proper training, so he has to claim that it can't be done without abuse.

Pathetic.


----------



## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr

Hi Kevin. I think you are asking me? I hope so. I think? Oh well, I'll answer anyway! Would it make me a 'mindless minion' if I said Rick Gore? I haven't actually studied much of Buck but I'm going on what I see in the video you've just shown me and what I know. I much prefer Rick Gore compared to this video. Any other person who also understands what Rick says will understand why I say so. Not because I'm 'defending' him or because I think he's a 'geeenius'. I don't think I actually said this anywhere in my posts? Quote me if I am wrong please. If you can respect the fact I consider Rick Gore a much better horseman and not have anyone personally insult me for it, then I respect anyone else's opinion also. Like I said, yours/anyone else's as mine, is just an opinion, it doesn't make it the right one.


----------



## bubba13

Tell me, why is Rick Gore the better horseman?


----------



## kevinshorses

It was a suggestion to everyone but it was initiated by your comment. If you think that Ricks horse was opperating as comfortably or with as much feel as Bucks then I'm afraid it shows how little you know about how a horse should move and handle. Good luck and I hope you find a way to further your education past Rick Gore.


----------



## hobbyhorse

Hi Kevin. Just a side note; It's funny who you picked to compare Rick Gore with. I don't know too much about either of these trainers yet, but I just ordered a video titled "Buck". I have heard this a good documentary about Buck's relationship with horses. I got to admire anyone who travels 9 months out of the year to help horses with people problems. All 
I know is he is the "Horse Whisperer".


----------



## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr

kevinshorses said:


> It was a suggestion to everyone but it was initiated by your comment. If you think that Ricks horse was opperating as comfortably or with as much feel as Bucks then I'm afraid it shows how little you know about how a horse should move and handle. Good luck and I hope you find a way to further your education past Rick Gore.


And I would hope you could further your education past assuming that I, someone who you do not even know, does not know how a horse should feel and move. Assuming that because I, someone who does not share your belief, is less educated. Good luck to you aswell sir.:roll:


----------



## bubba13

Answer my question....


----------



## Celeste

My only concern about Rick Gore is that if an amateur watches the videos that I have seen, they may get killed. Maybe he has some videos that are educational; I don't see that these are educational at all. He states that one video is going to teach you how not to get kicked and that one will show you how to teach your horse to trot and canter. He does neither. 

I am skeptical about all those training videos. They usually show somebody with a horse that they claim is untrained and they have him doing flying changes and neck reining within 20 minutes. Not likely.............


----------



## bubba13

His anti-Tom Thumb video is really bad. It's clear that he doesn't understand the mechanics of bits.


----------



## kevinshorses

ALL his videos are bad! At least he's consistent!


----------



## ridergirl23

Rick Gore seems like a bit of a dink to me. (am i allowed to say that word on here? correct me if I'm not) He might know something about horses, but he says the most absurd, rude, and ignorant things that don't make me confident about his IQ level. I don't know tons about horses, but It doesn't seem to me like he knows a lot either. Maybe I'm wrong, I've been wrong before! I don't like him as a person though, so theres not point in me even watching him, theres to many other trainers for me to watch.


----------



## smrobs

Argh!!! For some reason, Youtube isn't working right now :evil:. However, I have seen some of Buck's stuff and he is amazing. I love watching a _good_ horseman do his thing.


----------



## AngieLee

AmazinCaucasian said:


> How to Train a Horse Not to Kick - www.thinklikeahorse.org - Rick Gore Horsemanship - YouTube
> 
> How to teach your horse that nipping is okay. And how to get kicked in the face (by Rick Gore Horsemanship) Another dandy instructional video that'll get you hurt if you listen to morons. Did I mention I hate this guy?


I got to 1 min into this video, had to turn it off. what the H**L kind of advice is this!! to teach your horse not to kick touch him, walk around him, and walk UNDER HIM. i wont even walk under my horse who had never kicked out at me. let alone one that will! Plus this doesnt teach the horse not to! we have a kicker at our barn (due to passed abuse before coming to her owners) shes fine in crossties, being handled and ridden , and to get her feet picked. its in the stall and if you go near her bum in the feild that you have to worry about (its a work in progress. shes alot better then she was before tho!). i'd LOVE to see him try and teach her not to kick useing these tactics. really! i would! ok now i guess i should continie reading the rest of the posts. just had to vent about this idiot. UGE. some people should not work with horses. he is REALLY lucky he has a good horse


----------



## Celeste

There have been comments stating that we all just have different opinions. Opinions do differ. In some cases, only one is correct. There are matters of life and death here. If we are having arguments over types of bits (as long as they are reasonably humane), breeds of horses, disciplines of riding, etc, then there are different opinions that can all have some legitimacy. However, when discussing whether it is safe to crawl under a green horse or walk directly behind a horse that is dragging you along behind him on the way home, there is no room for discussion. If you are going to do this, you are going to die.


----------



## MudPaint

Yep... just read 9 pages. I think I will now have my 12 yr old niece that just started riding last year post some things on youtube about horses. At least she has the common sense not to promote walking behind/under a horse or let a horse wander in front of you. He preaches about being the leader. Dear Gore (I'm sorry I'm giggling cause I also find the politician a dolt), do you understand herd dynamics at all?:think: A lead horse ..... LEADS.... he doesn't follow at the hip of another... ya know... prime kicking area. 

I watched enough of the vids to notice him bumping on the reins cause he doesn't know how to ride with his seat. Do you know why it's unsafe to use verbal cues for your horse? You're riding in a group, cantering around and someone says "lets go" and your horse slams on the breaks. Or the opposite. Another rider clucks to their horse and yours starts cantering with your little kid on who has never cantered. Yea... real smart. Granted we all use a kiss or cluck to encourage our horses. A real horseman rides from his seat and leg, not his voice. 

None of his horses go in a relaxed frame, or look happy undersaddle. And how can someone take him seriously with his sexist, demeaning rants against anyone not him? 

Dear Mr. Gore, how is it, I am a woman, who shows dressage, eventing and hunters (as well as a bunch of other events you've ranted against), have well mannered horses, who are reasonably safe (a horse has it's own mind and is thus not EVER 100% safe and I respect that), well mannered, and ride happily in their chosen events. My ex-race horse LOVED to gallop to the day he died. Nothing made him happier than seeing the track.... please explain how I am an idiot owner for breezing him 2x a week in his retirement? 

Ok... I have sooo rambled and ranted. Soapbox will go back under the couch now. I promise. I just hate these so called trainers that demean all others and blatently show bad horsemanship.


----------



## kevinshorses

*I highly recommend that everyone go to his channel and comment on his videos*. I commented and got quite an interesting and intellectually stimulating response back. I gaurantee you will be both informed and entertained!!


----------



## MHFoundation Quarters

Which vid did you comment on Kevin? I'm curious to see the response you got.


----------



## AngieLee

yes please tell, id LOVE to read what he said to you! lol


----------



## kevinshorses

I don't remember which one. He called me an idiot and a barn witch (I was using my wifes account).


----------



## MHFoundation Quarters

Bahahaha! Better dust of your broom


----------



## smrobs

LOL, Kevin, I know. I posted a bit of a snarky response to his neck reining video and got a childish response back before being quickly blocked so that I couldn't respond to any other videos.

My post


> Years and years of training? Really? Then why is it that I've got a colt with 12 rides on﻿ him that neck reins (and stands still) better than old yeller there does?


His response


> Well then I guess you are just so brilliant and know so much, I can't figure out how you have time to watch others on youtube?
> Shut up and stay off my channel Ms.﻿ Knowitall


Yep, that _screams_ professional right there :rofl:. But the fact is, I _do_ have a colt with a handful of rides that handles a hell of a lot better than the horse in the vid.


----------



## MHFoundation Quarters

That's what irks me about him Jen. Years & years of training to neck rein? After years and years that horse should be spinning himself until he's buried to his hocks not needing tugged and reminded to follow his nose.


----------



## Dressage10135

Ok, in the not even 2 min video he said "neck-rein" 18 times. He kept saying it over and over... it was all I could concentrate on. Maybe because the rest of the words coming out of his mouth were complete bull****?


----------



## bubba13

smrobs said:


> LOL, Kevin, I know. I posted a bit of a snarky response to his neck reining video and got a childish response back before being quickly blocked so that I couldn't respond to any other videos.
> 
> My post
> 
> 
> His response
> 
> 
> Yep, that _screams_ professional right there :rofl:. But the fact is, I _do_ have a colt with a handful of rides that handles a hell of a lot better than the horse in the vid.
> Basis Neck Rein Explained - www.thinklikeahorse.org - Rick Gore Horsemanship - YouTube


I just want his **** horse to stand still. All I could focus on was the fidgeting.


----------



## kevinshorses

I commented on a few of his vids. I can't wait for the response. There must be a lot of negative comments because many if not most of the videos have commenting disabled.


----------



## pintophile

Is this guy actually a "professional"? I mean, does he actually have any credit to his name-has he actually _done_ anything, or does he just spew up these YouTube videos? How do so many people know about him and follow him if he's so godawful?


----------



## kevinshorses

Here is the most entertaining of his responses to my comments.

@kevinshorses1 : what a dum azz, this idiot has nothing better to do than make a fake profile and make comments. get a life and move on witch. 

Here's another:
lol, get a life dude. You are obviously some bitter little person who has no life so you make a fake profile to hide under you are blocked dumazz 

And one more:
To:kevinshorses1

Get a life dude - shut up or put your real name and your vids out - go change your pink panties 

Now that's just wierd. How did he know?


----------



## AngieLee

pintophile said:


> Is this guy actually a "professional"? I mean, does he actually have any credit to his name-has he actually _done_ anything, or does he just spew up these YouTube videos? How do so many people know about him and follow him if he's so godawful?


Because alot of people dont know alot about horses or how they work/think etc and they see this and without knowing anything else go "ohhh that makes sence" but anybody who has a lick of horse sence knows that most of what he says his bull **** . You could also argue that is one of the diffrences between horse people, and horse lovers lol but thats a diffrent discussion. i think i want to go look at more videos just to see the comments he gets! lol

but my god! if a horse has been doing neck reining for years i hope he has AMAZING spins and turns down pat! and not like his horse there! and i agree, he needs to teach his horse to stand still!


----------



## AngieLee

kevinshorses said:


> Here is the most entertaining of his responses to my comments.
> 
> @kevinshorses1 : what a dum azz, this idiot has nothing better to do than make a fake profile and make comments. get a life and move on witch.
> 
> Here's another:
> lol, get a life dude. You are obviously some bitter little person who has no life so you make a fake profile to hide under you are blocked dumazz
> 
> And one more:
> To:kevinshorses1
> 
> Get a life dude - shut up or put your real name and your vids out - go change your pink panties
> 
> Now that's just wierd. How did he know?


 **** to the pink panties!
are you not aloud to swear on youtube or is he just a bad speller?


----------



## kevinshorses

I challenge all other members to get better responses than that. When everyone has had a chance then we can vote on the best one and I'll send a suitable prize.


----------



## kevinshorses

AngieLee said:


> **** to the pink panties!
> are you not aloud to swear on youtube or is he just a bad speller?


I've read some pretty nasty comments on other videos so I think he's just dumb.


----------



## AmazinCaucasian

kevinshorses said:


> I challenge all other members to get better responses than that. When everyone has had a chance then we can vote on the best one and I'll send a suitable prize.


That's a brilliant idea!!! I can't participate unless I start another account cause he blocked me without a response. I was blocked within 30 seconds of posting my comment. HEHE!! I'll cast my vote though.


----------



## ridergirl23

hahahaha kevinshorses i saw the barn witch one before i knew it was you, thats a good laugh. I can't wait to see the other comments people get back!


----------



## Toymanator

kevinshorses said:


> I challenge all other members to get better responses than that. When everyone has had a chance then we can vote on the best one and I'll send a suitable prize.


Your on! :twisted:


----------



## kevinshorses

Bring it!


----------



## hobbyhorse

hummmm omg I have a gifted horse and trainer. My trainer had my Arabian mare trained to my needs when she was a 3 year old. I have one arm so I asked she be trained to neck rein with the slightest touch to either side of her neck and it was months not years to have my horse trained exactly to my needs. I have been riding this mare for 8 years now and I haven't had a problem with her training yet. So I have no idea what that guy is taking about neck reining taking years to teach or I'd still be waiting to ride. LOL


----------



## bubba13

I am ALL OVER this contest, Kevin!





 
"I got﻿ a comment on one of my videos (the link won't work, but look up my video "Argentine Snaffles and Tom Thumbs Part II") comparing me to you. I don't know who you are, and I don't get it. Can you watch the video and explain? Thanks so much.
almostfinally 1 sec ago "

Can't wait for the response....


----------



## MHFoundation Quarters

Bubba, I couldn't watch that past "It has a broken cheek piece" when he holds the mouth piece.


----------



## Toymanator

Did anyone else notice that he started off that video saying that a tom thumb is not a snaffle and then towards the end he referred to the tom thumb as a snaffle?


----------



## AngieLee

ohh boy. I don't see how thats the worst bit out there and anyone who uses it is cruel. there are much harsher bits out there, but even then. its all in the hands who use them. a harsh or heavy handed rider can cause more damage with a snaffle then a more experiences rider could with a leverage bit. i only got about 4 minuits into that video and then i couldnt take it anymore LOL will be intresting to see what his responce to your comment will be Bubba! i may have to make a youtube account just to join this contest LOL


----------



## bubba13

I did find this photo of Rick on his facebook page. No joke.


----------



## smrobs

OMFG, why couldn't Buddy just choose that particular moment to see the boogeyman and rid the world of that guy's stupidity.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians

OMG SMROBS, I sooooo like that! X 3!

I swear to God, one of these days we're gonna read about that guy in the newspaper. Where they find out he's got a 'special' girlfriend down at the barn.....he's just WRONG!


----------



## smrobs

Ewwwww!! Brain bleach!! :rofl:


----------



## hobbyhorse

inches and that horse would have domination.LOL


----------



## Celeste

I think he is suicidal due to the fact that he is ugly. He needs to either take some kind of self acceptance class with group therapy or find a plastic surgeon. Antidepressants may help.


----------



## kevinshorses

I encourage you all to make these comments on his videos and enter the contest. I promise you will recieve a craptastic prize if you win!


----------



## Ian McDonald

I don't understand what useful purpose is served by attacking this guy. It appears to be meanness for the sake of sport.


----------



## kevinshorses

Ian McDonald said:


> I don't understand what useful purpose is served by attacking this guy. It appears to be meanness for the sake of sport.


That's the purpose!


----------



## Northern

Ian McDonald said:


> I don't understand what useful purpose is served by attacking this guy. It appears to be meanness for the sake of sport.


Amen! Thanks, Ian!

It's not like he's abusing horses; if anything, he errs on the side of caution with them: he's always concerned with NOT abusing them, whether it be by avoiding harsh bits, avoiding undue stress on their bodies via extreme sports, etc. 

Pick on those who ARE abusing horses, in the name of their "sports"; your energy is better spent on protecting the victims of such "professionals" as Craig Schmerzal!


----------



## Ian McDonald

kevinshorses said:


> That's the purpose!


I see. I also see that you work as a horse trainer. Do you really think that amusing yourself this way is an appropriate attitude for a horseman? If so, I guess that's fine but to me that would say something about a person that stands in sharp contrast to any horseman worth admiring. 

It's cool though bro. Do your thing.


----------



## kevinshorses

What this dufus is advocating is not much less than abuse and what his nieve followers do to thier horses probably is abusive. In addition, there is a huge capacity for human injury for anyone that does the stupid stuff on his videos. One video shows him sitting on a chair in front of the doorway to the tack room of his trailer...with a horse tied to the door. What are the chances that if that horse spooks he will get hit with the door or the horse will jerk teh door off and run off with the door banging behind it? He is completely phony and deletes all comments that don't say how wonderful he is. He demeans people when they ask honestly for help or clarification of a point. You can't be a good guy to horses and a bad guy to people. I would love to see how he handles his horses when the camera is turned off.


----------



## kevinshorses

Ian McDonald said:


> I see. I also see that you work as a horse trainer. Do you really think that amusing yourself this way is an appropriate attitude for a horseman? If so, I guess that's fine but to me that would say something about a person that stands in sharp contrast to any horseman worth admiring.
> 
> It's cool though bro. Do your thing.


Don't worry I will.


----------



## Northern

kevinshorses said:


> ... You can't be a good guy to horses and a bad guy to people. I would love to see how he handles his horses when the camera is turned off.


 Kevin, you CAN be good to horses & bad to people; Rick might well be the poster child for that!:shock: Plus, if he abuses his horses off-camera, his training them to present themselves as the good partners that they show themselves to be to Rick on-camera has to be the case, rendering Rick Gore the greatest horse trainer of all time! And I know that you don't want to give him that much credit!:wink:


----------



## bubba13

I don't think most people would say boo to him if it weren't for all of his nasty, nasty responses to questions and constructive criticism....or his blatant sexism.


----------



## Celeste

If you handle a horse so that it learns that it can run all over you (such as letting the horse walk in front of you dragging you home while you make sexist remarks), you are being cruel. Horses like this end up going to slaughter. It is better to handle a horse in a normal way and teach it respect. Then it can have a long, happy life.


----------



## kevinshorses

Northern said:


> Kevin, you CAN be good to horses & bad to people; Rick might well be the poster child for that!:shock: Plus, if he abuses his horses off-camera, his training them to present themselves as the good partners that they show themselves to be to Rick on-camera has to be the case, rendering Rick Gore the greatest horse trainer of all time! And I know that you don't want to give him that much credit!:wink:


His horses don't look like willing partners to me. If anything they are tolerant slaves. They won't stand still, they nip and lick on him, they root out thier noses and lean on his reins, they drop thier heads to eat while he's trying to ride them. About the only thing that could be said positively for them is they are gentle and that was probably bred into them rather than trained into them by Rick. I would be interested to see if Rick actually started those horses or if he "rescued" them from a cruel trainer.


----------



## Northern

Nah, I don't think gentleness was bred into his Mustang!


----------



## kevinshorses

Why don't you think that. I've been around a lot of mustangs and once they are initially gentled (which often doesn't take that much) they are quiet and gentle. Just because they are badly inbred and badly conformed doesn't mean they are unruly and ignorant.


----------



## bubba13

Wouldn't surprise me, really. The only Mustang I have personal experience was a wild-bred old mare who'd been manhandled and cowboyed and whooped on by little kids, but who was just as deadheaded and easy going as any Quarter Horse, too. You'd never have guessed what she was if it hadn't been for the freeze brand.


----------



## Northern

Just that Mustangs usually have their own breeding program going & it doesn't include gentleness/willingness toward humans, come on, you two know what I meant.


----------



## smrobs

Exactly, my mustang boy Koda was one of the easiest horses I've ever started.

What still just gets me is that his horses lack basic manners like how to lead properly, how to respect his space, how to stand still under saddle, etc.

The rest is just icing on the cake: the rooting out against the halter/bridle, the lack of flexion at the poll, the lack of even mediocre neck reining ability, the lack of proper cue to pick up the correct lead (you can see in his "trot/canter" video that the second time he asks for the lope, the horse picks up the wrong lead and he doesn't seem to notice or care), the fact that he didn't bother to correct (or prevent) his palomino from crow hopping when he went into the lope, and other things that really stick out to me as lack of knowledge and good training.

Just because he's not leaving bloody spur marks or tearing their mouth up with a twisted bit doesn't mean that what he's teaching is _good_ for horses or people. He is just one more voice of mediocrity in the horse world, teaching people that their misbehaving horses are "perfect" and that they will never see a better one that hasn't been abused horribly in some way.

IMHO, the way he sits a horse and the way he handles their mouth is just bad all the way around. He flops around like a sack of flour and he's constantly bumping them in the mouth just because he can't keep his hands quiet because his seat is all over the place. His horses aren't willing, they are tolerant, there is a humongous difference there.


----------



## AmazinCaucasian

More Rick Gore greatness. I bet you a dollar to a donut he doesn't know how to use that rope. 

WARNING: May cause vomiting


----------



## Dressage10135

I'm going to laugh so hard when either:
A) The horse bites his face. 
B) Horse knocks him to the ground
C) Horse knocks him to the ground, freaks at the lead rope dangling, tramples RG and runs away.


----------



## caseymyhorserocks

About the walking under a horse, I am so glad I desintized to things under Casey's belly. I had a friends little 6 year old boy who was over, and I forgot to warn him about not walking underneath a horse, actually I have never needed to :lol: and he walked under Casey. Casey just stood there, totally chill :rofl:


----------



## smrobs

Amazin, even with the warning, it didn't prepare me.


----------



## ridergirl23

'just like if i didn't want him rubbing on me, i could do that.' hmmm, first first I've ever met in my life that 'likes' a horse using them as a scratching post.
oi, that is hurting MY back seeing him wiggle halfway in the saddle like that... but thats ok, because he never hurts his horses in any way.
P.S. im getting seriously tired of seeing that shirt every time.... can someone please buy him a new shirt already?


----------



## AmazinCaucasian

hahaha ooooooh the shirt! Snazzy aint it? and the faster he rides, the higher those high-water britches come up. In one video they come above his boot tops. I need to post it.


----------



## kevinshorses

He probably got the shirt at Garth Brooks garage sale!


----------



## smrobs

C'mon Kevin, now that's not fair. Garth is a _real_ cowboy, donchaknow??


:rofl:


----------



## hobbyhorse

All I can say is I can't believe he is a horse trainer. Do any of his horses stand quietly while he is on the ground or in the saddle? Maybe I missed a second of it.LOL


----------



## haleylvsshammy

My favorite part was when he was saying "Now my horse isn't going to walk off when I get on" and the horse proceeded to try to walk off.

And, really, letting your horse rub on you? How about you teach your horse some respect, proper ground manners, and take some riding lessons while you're at it, RG, and then maybe, just maybe (but probably not) you can TRY to teach people again.


----------



## kevinshorses

These would all make excelent entries in the "**** off Rick Gore contest"!


----------



## AngieLee

Dressage10135 said:


> I'm going to laugh so hard when either:
> A) The horse bites his face.
> B) Horse knocks him to the ground
> C) Horse knocks him to the ground, freaks at the lead rope dangling, tramples RG and runs away.


This LOL im actually waiting for this moment to happen! seriously, if i was working with that horse id be SO annoyed. he just doesnt stand still. he always moving, nudging,licking,niping,trying to grab his hat etc 

I also find it funny that when he was talking about how when you mount, your horse shouldnt walk off, and he wasnt trying to make the horse walked off.... the horse walked away! 

and i feel like hes saying its ok if a horse walks off if your unbalenced, hanging off his side etc. thought i could have just understood him. persinally I dont agree with that. iv had a moment where i was dismounting and somehow got caught in the sturrup (no idea how...) and was more or less hanging off my horses side. he just stood there like a champ, well he gave me an odd look but i dont blame him! lol not saying stuff like that happens all the time (thats the only time. maybe cuz i had been wearing runners? who knows) but they should stand until told otherwise weather your hanging there or not lol

At least he's talking about good basic training skills to teach your horse... even though he's not really showing them off very well


----------



## smrobs

LOL, Kevin, unfortunately, he has already blocked me so I cannot post again unless I create a new account and that seems like an awful lot of work considering that most of the videos I would really comment on have had the comments disabled :roll:.


----------



## bubba13

I never got a response from him, anyway.


----------



## COWCHICK77

I have found people who are unknowledgable but think they have it figured out are the ones most defensive about their methods. They close their minds to any suggestion that upsets their happy little world where they are king. Those are the people who make the worst horsemen. True horsemen know that they do not know it all and are open minded to other methods and suggestions. Even though I find his methods ridiculous the thing most maddening is the fact that he puts down everyone else. I mean really, he is trying to tell us how to neck rein and his horse isn't even doing it..he just walks off. How can you respect that? When that fact is pointed out he just insults everyone. That boy just lucked out enough to find a horse that tolerates him, because he obviously doesn't respect him! 

I am praying for him to post a video about ranch roping where he finally takes that rope down.......:twisted:


----------



## kevinshorses

How long do you think he'd last on ANY outfit in Nevada? He might be able to give riding lessons to rich kids in Vegas but 50 miles outside of Vegas and he wouldn't even be able to get on a fencing crew. My 11 yo son has a horse that he rides everywhere that would buck Mr. Gore off before he got out of the yard.


----------



## COWCHICK77

kevinshorses said:


> How long do you think he'd last on ANY outfit in Nevada? He might be able to give riding lessons to rich kids in Vegas but 50 miles outside of Vegas and he wouldn't even be able to get on a fencing crew. My 11 yo son has a horse that he rides everywhere that would buck Mr. Gore off before he got out of the yard.



****!!!! I would fire him just for showing up in that shirt.
I am sure Mr. Gore is about as handy as a screen door on a submarine.....


----------



## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr

Ian McDonald said:


> I don't understand what useful purpose is served by attacking this guy. It appears to be meanness for the sake of sport.


Amen Ian. And I was told I need to further my education? Further my education by agreeing with some who need to act like school children in a playground and attack some guy in a 'contest' over html? And call him ugly and wears a colourful shirt and play a game of who can say the 'best comment'?
Well, the irony of the title of this thread just amuses me. Attacking a person and calling him names because you do not agree with them or understand their ways and why he does what he does. Judging a person on their opinion and because it is not your own makes them an idiot and mindless? Clearly there is no age limit for childish behavior.

A real horseman listens to the horse and doesn't use a cheat to move it. In the country of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.


----------



## eliduc

Actually, no. There is no regulation over horse trainers with the exception of on the race track. Anyone can advertise that they are a trainer whether they or not they know nothing about anything. Anyone can make a video and put it on YouTube. This is a fraud whether or not it is intentional. The problem here is that it can be dangerous to those who do not know any better. I haven't watched the videos but if a so called trainer is supposedly giving advice on how to teach your horse not to move while mounting and the horse he is using is mauling him while he speaks perhaps he needs to be exposed for what he is, a fake. Attacking him personally may be going a bit overboard but this type of phony self enhancement tends to tick those who know better off.


----------



## COWCHICK77

ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr said:


> Amen Ian. And I was told I need to further my education? Further my education by agreeing with some who need to act like school children in a playground and attack some guy in a 'contest' over html? And call him ugly and wears a colourful shirt and play a game of who can say the 'best comment'?
> Well, the irony of the title of this thread just amuses me. Attacking a person and calling him names because you do not agree with them or understand their ways and why he does what he does. Judging a person on their opinion and because it is not your own makes them an idiot and mindless? Clearly there is no age limit for childish behavior.
> 
> A real horseman listens to the horse and doesn't use a cheat to move it. In the country of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.


I think you may be missing the point that most of us have been saying. It is not the fact that he has an opinion or does things differently. It is the fact that when met with questions about his methods or valid points are brought up he deletes the post or fires back with a rude comment. Do you really think if he would answer questions and explain why he uses the methods that he does that he would be "attacked"? I think this drives home the point that if you want to be a good horseman you have to be open to learning something new and different. For myself I have made my living by starting colts and training and I make a point to ride with different trainers that are at a higher level than me to keep learning. Another point to add is if you are trying to teach a method to other people you should be able to back it up with results....I thought it was obvious that he failed to do so. I wouldn't hang out my shingle as a trainer if I couldn't produce results. It's like a contractor saying he could build a house and he can't even figure out how to get his tools out of the truck.



You may be right, there is no need for name calling and I am really fighting the urge to blurt out "He started it!" :lol: I admit to making a jab at his attire and flat out saying he is "about as handy as a screen door on a submarine". I am not hiding behind my computer, I would say the same if he was standing before me. He wouldn't make it two hours working for us. Just for the simple reason stated in the paragraph above. He has no tolerance for suggestions. You have to be able to learn. We will hire someone green if they have the ability and want to. But his attitude alone would be grounds for termination- even if he could manage his rope and horse. 

As far as you being told to educate yourself, I must of missed a post somewhere...please elaborate, or tell me where I can read that.


----------



## Celeste

I wonder if a person puts something on the net that states that they are a professional trainer and then suggests something unsafe, if it is possible for that person to get sued if somebody gets hurt. It seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen.


----------



## Hunterjumper7654

Well this is interesting.... I ride a jumper so I must beat my horse and nip the nerves to his tail because he swish's it. No I have the chiro come out.... This guy is a joke.


----------



## blush

*headdesk*
...what an educated person. There really are no words for the BS he just spewed.

http://www.youtube.com/user/horseawareness#p/u/82/37amujWG6tQ


----------



## bubba13

See the comments on his channel?

"In his latest book, Steven Pinker notes in his chapter on the moral treatment of animals, *"increasingly, implements such as bits, spurs, crops and whips are seen as barbaric training tools by more﻿ enlightened handlers and riders of horses..."* Perhaps we are getting somewhere, slowly but surely, after all. Pinker also notes that those who use nonviolent means of dealing with animals also deal more gently with their children and with﻿ humanity in general."

"*Rick, you are a god*, I mean.. You have taught me so much more. when i was younger everyone told me that pulling the reins on my horse would not hurt him﻿ and when he lifted his head up he was just being a pain in the butt.. so that's what i grew up believing... and then i came across your channel, I am now riding my﻿ horses with rope halters like you do!!"

"I don't put fly masks on my horses any more. My gelding scratched his cornea twice and both times he had his fly mask on. I don't know whether he scratched his face and the mask pressed into his eye or if he was rubbing his head on something and didn't see something that poked him. It is also possible that the fly mask had nothing to do with it, but I am erring on the side of caution. I ignored the vet's advice to not turn him out with﻿ the scratched cornea. She wanted me to do stall rest for three weeks. No way! I bought a UV blocking mask that is made for turning a horse out and out he went. His eye healed and he wasn't stall-bound. *The first time he scratched his cornea I took the vet's advice. Never again.* ﻿ My horse was the only one in the barn for three weeks. I was an idiot!"


----------



## blush

bubba13 said:


> "I don't put fly masks on my horses any more. My gelding scratched his cornea twice and both times he had his fly mask on. I don't know whether he scratched his face and the mask pressed into his eye or if he was rubbing his head on something and didn't see something that poked him. It is also possible that the fly mask had nothing to do with it, but I am erring on the side of caution. I ignored the vet's advice to not turn him out with﻿ the scratched cornea. She wanted me to do stall rest for three weeks. No way! I bought a UV blocking mask that is made for turning a horse out and out he went. His eye healed and he wasn't stall-bound. *The first time he scratched his cornea I took the vet's advice. Never again.* ﻿ My horse was the only one in the barn for three weeks. I was an idiot!"


This comment actually makes me so angry. :evil:

Robbie recently had problems with his eyes, scratched cornea and a rare infection because of a fly bite on his actual eye. He also had conjectivitis and his eyes were too swollen to open. As soon as all 3 of these injuries happened, I called the vet ASAP. She gave him meds, antibiotics, steriods and told me to keep a fly mask on him 24/7. I followed all of her advice and Robbie is now 100% healed from all three ailments, because of the meds and fly mask.

The lady who posted this comment is disgustingly stupid. A fly mask WILL NOT cause a scratched cornea, it *protects* the eye from flys, hay, etc. Why do you think vet's tell you to put one on when there is something wrong with your horse's eye?! And it's hilarious how she said "I don't know whether he scratched his face and the mask pressed into his eye or if he was rubbing his head on something and didn't see something that poked him. It is also possible that the fly mask had nothing to do with it" 

The reason the vet wanted to keep him stall bound was becuase a scratched cornea is unbelievably painful to a horse. The eye is super senstive to light and the brightness of outside (sorry but your UV blocking mask will do s***). Let's cut your eye and see how much you want to run around outside...

She also never says that she got any antiobiotics for her horse either, or that the poor thing even fully healed after her brillant plan to ignore the vet. A horse's scratched cornea DOES NOT heal by itself, how dense does somebody have to be to take the advice of some random jacka** on a youtube site over a vet who has gone to school for over 8 years and is *educated* in horse health care.




Haha this made me lol
"My horse was the only one in the barn for three weeks". 
That poor thing! It must have been sooooo lonely. :roll:


----------



## Celeste

So we should quit wearing helmets?


----------



## blush

Celeste said:


> So we should quit wearing helmets?


Yeah! Apparently they do much more harm than good...didn't ya know?

All those studies and stats on helmets are useless! Plus all the laws made about helmet use from the "knuckleheads up in washington that try to get bills passed" are just plain silly! And it's not like riders, trainers and professionals are advocating the use of helmets, oh no! They know they do more harm then good, it's those no-good helmet makers that actually advocate the use of helemts and how they save lives.

...um yeah. :roll: stupidity at it's finest.


----------



## Ian McDonald

COWCHICK77 said:


> I think you may be missing the point that most of us have been saying. It is not the fact that he has an opinion or does things differently. It is the fact that when met with questions about his methods or valid points are brought up he deletes the post or fires back with a rude comment. Do you really think if he would answer questions and explain why he uses the methods that he does that he would be "attacked"? I think this drives home the point that if you want to be a good horseman you have to be open to learning something new and different. For myself I have made my living by starting colts and training and I make a point to ride with different trainers that are at a higher level than me to keep learning. Another point to add is if you are trying to teach a method to other people you should be able to back it up with results....I thought it was obvious that he failed to do so. I wouldn't hang out my shingle as a trainer if I couldn't produce results. It's like a contractor saying he could build a house and he can't even figure out how to get his tools out of the truck.
> 
> 
> 
> You may be right, there is no need for name calling and I am really fighting the urge to blurt out "He started it!" :lol: I admit to making a jab at his attire and flat out saying he is "about as handy as a screen door on a submarine". I am not hiding behind my computer, I would say the same if he was standing before me. He wouldn't make it two hours working for us. Just for the simple reason stated in the paragraph above. He has no tolerance for suggestions. You have to be able to learn. We will hire someone green if they have the ability and want to. But his attitude alone would be grounds for termination- even if he could manage his rope and horse.
> 
> As far as you being told to educate yourself, I must of missed a post somewhere...please elaborate, or tell me where I can read that.


You guys got any openings? I got a saddle and could use a job. I'm green on the roping end of things but I can ride a colt and I can travel! :-o


----------



## Celeste

I wish I were a lawyer. There is so much money to be made when people ditch their helmets and their bits due to this guy ..............

To those who like him, please don't ditch your safety stuff.


----------



## COWCHICK77

Ian, ask again in the spring when things are happening and hiring! Right now everyone is pretty much shipped all the calves, yearlings and feeding cows through the winter. But if I hear of anyone wanting to hire for calving this winter , I will let you know.


----------



## Ian McDonald

COWCHICK77 said:


> Ask again in the spring when things are happening and hiring! Right now everyone is pretty much shipped all the calves, yearlings and feeding cows through the winter. But if I hear of anyone wanting to hire for calving this winter , I will let you know.


That's cool. I think I'll spend the winter doing a lot of roping so it'll look like I've picked one up before, come spring.


----------



## kevinshorses

Ian McDonald said:


> You guys got any openings? I got a saddle and could use a job. I'm green on the roping end of things but I can ride a colt and I can travel! :-o


Where do you live Ian?


----------



## ridergirl23

bubba13 said:


> See the comments on his channel?
> 
> "In his latest book, Steven Pinker notes in his chapter on the moral treatment of animals, *"increasingly, implements such as bits, spurs, crops and whips are seen as barbaric training tools by more﻿ enlightened handlers and riders of horses..."* Perhaps we are getting somewhere, slowly but surely, after all. Pinker also notes that those who use nonviolent means of dealing with animals also deal more gently with their children and with﻿ humanity in general."


ahahahahahaha that is by far the best thing I've heard... EVER. I just bought new spurs for my horse... and a new whip to boot (just cuz the handle was sparkly). Ironically i also bought a bunch of christmas gifts for friends and family... and helped a few people out with things. Im just so darn abusive its dangerous. 
Wait... if he only knows how to use bits, whips, and spurs barbarically then i don't think he should be allowed near a horse....


----------



## Ian McDonald

kevinshorses said:


> Where do you live Ian?


California, but I'm flexible.


----------



## kevinshorses

If I hear of anything I'll let you know!


----------



## eliduc

What an ignorant bunch of B.S.! He probably doesn't eat meat or drink milk either. Who is this guy anyway?


----------



## OTTB

I believe this guy also has a video on the Tom Thumb bit... in which he starts screaming while on film, and then is verbally abusive toward people who dare disagree with him in the comments section. The use of 'adult' (read childish) language is prolific, as well. 

I might learn something from him, if he didn't feel the need to scream at me on his videos and use curse words to describe how he feels about people who disagree with him.


----------



## Sinister

I know I'm a little late on reading and posting on this thread, but did anyone else notice his horse walking around the pasture with a lead rope on? Cause that's not dangerous?!


----------



## nrhareiner

New_image said:


> I just ran into this on my facebook a few days back, he isn't "completely" off his rocker. How true this particular thing is I am not sure, just jumped to mind when I read the nonchalant mocking of this guys video as these things do happen.
> 
> This was shot at the IALHA Sat. p.m. When brought to the show manager's attention, she said she had been in touch with the club, but would let the horse continue under these conditions as it was a non regular class (exhibition). Perhaps this is not in the best interest of the horse. Let the IALHA (International Andalusian Lusitano Horse Association) what you think.


At an NRHA show this person would be DQed in a heart beat. I would also suspect that they would also get suspended for NRHA. It comes down to the association making and then enforcing the rules they have. NRHA is very good about enforcing their rules. Too good at times but I would rather have it that way then not.


----------



## OTTB

Only 0.40 seconds into his video he threatens the horse with a beating because the animal has a natural curiosity and walks toward the camera. So bits are abusive, but beating animals because they're curious about the world around them is okay.

He also threatens to kill the cat because the cat is being friendly and curious, as well.

While I get that we all say things to release frustration (like me just yelling at my own cat to get off the **** counter or I'd yank him by the tail) when someone is producing videos to try and talk about humane ways to treat animals I find it hilariously sad that he goes around threatening animals on film.


----------



## Ian McDonald

I actually went on a trail ride with this guy recently. Neither of his horses have any handle to speak of. Yes, he rides in a halter with no spurs but he doesn't have much control over his horses. He allows them to disregard him and then gets mad at them for it when he finally notices. His mustang is 20+ years old and still spooks and blows back if you make any kind of movement around him that isn't extremely careful. The palomino has no respect for people and was continually bothering my mare during the ride as he was allowed to follow us down the trail loose.

At the end of the ride he gave me his critique of everything that he thought *I* was doing wrong, and then mentioned me in a negative light in his next video. Didn't say my name, so I suppose I should be grateful for that. Offered to ride my horse for me, to show me how it's done.

I used to be kind of cool with this guy, and I hate to say it but I'm pretty fed up with him too. Dude has some general knowledge but very little skill and expects everyone to treat him like he's a top hand. Pretty sure I won't be riding with him again.


----------



## nrhareiner

Watched a few videos of his. Based on what was on them I would not let him brush one of my hoses letalone get on one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## COWCHICK77

Ian McDonald said:


> I actually went on a trail ride with this guy recently. Neither of his horses have any handle to speak of. Yes, he rides in a halter with no spurs but he doesn't have much control over his horses. He allows them to disregard him and then gets mad at them for it when he finally notices. His mustang is 20+ years old and still spooks and blows back if you make any kind of movement around him that isn't extremely careful. The palomino has no respect for people and was continually bothering my mare during the ride as he was allowed to follow us down the trail loose.
> 
> At the end of the ride he gave me his critique of everything that he thought *I* was doing wrong, and then mentioned me in a negative light in his next video. Didn't say my name, so I suppose I should be grateful for that. Offered to ride my horse for me, to show me how it's done.
> 
> I used to be kind of cool with this guy, and I hate to say it but I'm pretty fed up with him too. Dude has some general knowledge but very little skill and expects everyone to treat him like he's a top hand. Pretty sure I won't be riding with him again.


LOL, Ian after watching your videos of you working with the bucking horse and this guys "instructional rants", I think he should be taking his horses to you.


----------



## Saddlebag

OTTB, Rick Gore would never abuse his horses. It's just empty talk. You also have to listen to his tone. Haven't you said things to your horse you don't mean?


----------



## nrhareiner

I did not have a problem with what what he said to the horses. My problem is his atitude and his riding ability or lack there of. Have the same problem with several of the self proclamed experts and their videos and such.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ian McDonald

COWCHICK77 said:


> LOL, Ian after watching your videos of you working with the bucking horse and this guys "instructional rants", I think he should be taking his horses to you.


Ha, thanks. He wishes.


----------



## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr

Ian - so what did he say you were doing wrong when he critiqued you? Did you ask him to critique you?


----------



## AmazinCaucasian

I can't figure out if Rick Gore is a cop or a truck driver. I know it's rude but I'm being honest. He has to be one of the two. Please don't get offended guys, I have both a cop and a truck driver in my close family. Just sayin he fits the description of _some _of both. Ian do you know?


----------



## smrobs

I think I saw somewhere in one of his videos or maybe when I was trolling his website that he said he used to be a cop. Too bad, folks like him give cops a bad name too.


----------



## AmazinCaucasian

I knew it! haha, no, I have respect for good cops. I shoe for a guy that's a retired Highway Patrolman. He's the wisest and most honest man I've ever known. I have more respect for him than anyone else I've ever worked for. He's one of the good guys. 

There are some I've met who I think are in law enforcement for the wrong reason. This Rick Gore reminds me of them.


----------



## smrobs

Oh, believe me, I know my share of those types as well. Between my Dad being a cop (so I was raised around cops) and then spending over 5 years as an officer in a prison. The "John Waynes" of the world.


----------



## AmazinCaucasian

My brother-in-law's a hwy patrolman and I guess he's a good egg too. Kinda the same with the truck drivers.


----------



## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr

Yes, he USED to be a police detective. He's also a proud veteran. 

There's one video with him riding the palomino in just a rope halter, with a one rein lead rope and holding a phone at the same time and goes from a canter to a halt. No skill in being able to do that? I think that's pretty good myself.

Anyone can pick him apart to make themselves feel better as much they like. If that makes them feel better, well, that says alot about them. The videos aren't about HIM. It's not about what shirt he wears, or if he looks like a truck driver or what his laugh sounds like. He gives out the information for the HORSE. He doesn't claim to be the best rider out there, he doesn't claim to be the top hand. He says time and time again about having to develop yourself to be good with horses. It's not about how well he rides, the videos just aren't about that. It's about understanding them, observing them continually, understanding what you do influences everything your horse does and developing that, and not just believing everything some 'trainer' tells you or believing what you _think_ you see in some random video. It goes way deeper than the surface of his outward appearance in the videos.


----------



## franknbeans

ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr said:


> Yes, he USED to be a police detective. He's also a proud veteran.
> 
> *There's one video with him riding the palomino in just a rope halter, with a one rein lead rope and holding a phone at the same time and goes from a canter to a halt. No skill in being able to do that? I think that's pretty good myself.*
> 
> Anyone can pick him apart to make themselves feel better as much they like. If that makes them feel better, well, that says alot about them. The videos aren't about HIM. It's not about what shirt he wears, or if he looks like a truck driver or what his laugh sounds like. He gives out the information for the HORSE. He doesn't claim to be the best rider out there, he doesn't claim to be the top hand. He says time and time again about having to develop yourself to be good with horses. It's not about how well he rides, the videos just aren't about that. It's about understanding them, observing them continually, understanding what you do influences everything your horse does and developing that, and not just believing everything some 'trainer' tells you or believing what you _think_ you see in some random video. It goes way deeper than the surface of his outward appearance in the videos.


I'm sorry, coming to this thread WAY late, but this made me smile. It really doesn't require much skill at all-if I can do it with my guy, most could I would think. :wink: Takes a little practice, and teaching the horse to stop from your seat, not yanking on the reins, which many of us do anyway. As far as the one rein-that is not hard either, teach your horse to move off your legs-again-something many of us do anyway.


----------



## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr

Sure does take practice. Which needs a good foundation, understanding, time, patience, feel and good timing, and a good understanding of pressure and release. I consider that a bit of skill... or maybe I'm just not skilled enough either? LOL


----------



## AmazinCaucasian

ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr said:


> Yes, he USED to be a police detective. He's also a proud veteran.
> 
> There's one video with him riding the palomino in just a rope halter, with a one rein lead rope and holding a phone at the same time and goes from a canter to a halt. No skill in being able to do that? I think that's pretty good myself.
> 
> Anyone can pick him apart to make themselves feel better as much they like. If that makes them feel better, well, that says alot about them. The videos aren't about HIM. It's not about what shirt he wears, or if he looks like a truck driver or what his laugh sounds like. He gives out the information for the HORSE. He doesn't claim to be the best rider out there, he doesn't claim to be the top hand. He says time and time again about having to develop yourself to be good with horses. It's not about how well he rides, the videos just aren't about that. It's about understanding them, observing them continually, understanding what you do influences everything your horse does and developing that, and not just believing everything some 'trainer' tells you or believing what you _think_ you see in some random video. It goes way deeper than the surface of his outward appearance in the videos.


Confuscious, are you Rick Gore?


----------



## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr

ROFLMAO No I'm freaking not!! Oh man! Why do you think that?!!?! I don't think Rick would care enough to listen to this sh*t and spend the time to make an account and comment.. and rightly so!

Thanks for the smile though.

I'm gonna leave you barn witches now to do your thang..... Oh man! I couldn't resist that one!!! Sadly, no, I'm not, but I do think he is good in what he *says. *I like him alot.* *


----------



## COWCHICK77

ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr said:


> He says time and time again about having to develop yourself to be good with horses. It's not about how well he rides, the videos just aren't about that. It's about understanding them, observing them continually, understanding what you do influences everything your horse does and developing that, and not just believing everything some 'trainer' tells you or believing what you _think_ you see in some random video. It goes way deeper than the surface of his outward appearance in the videos.



I don't think it would be that big of a deal if he actually practiced what he preaches......

He sure isn't very "in tune" with how his actions influence his horses.


----------



## Showjumper1

nrhareiner said:


> At an NRHA show this person would be DQed in a heart beat. I would also suspect that they would also get suspended for NRHA. It comes down to the association making and then enforcing the rules they have. NRHA is very good about enforcing their rules. Too good at times but I would rather have it that way then not.[/ QUOTE]
> 
> Aww poor horse. That rider shouldnt even own a pair of spurs .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## COWCHICK77

ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr said:


> There's one video with him riding the palomino in just a rope halter, with a one rein lead rope and holding a phone at the same time and goes from a canter to a halt. No skill in being able to do that? I think that's pretty good myself.


I wasn't going to say anything but I have never been known for keeping my mouth shut, so why start now....

You can rope outside off of all my horses in just a halter, and one you can ride with just your legs and seat, no bridle or halter. 

But you don't see me putting videos on YouTube or have a website.

Anyone can learn the mechanics of horse training, that's the easy part. What makes a good trainer is getting in the horses head and thinking like a horse. I think this what you are saying his message is. However it doesn't come across that way in his videos.


----------



## Ian McDonald

COWCHICK77 said:


> I wasn't going to say anything but I have never been known for keeping my mouth shut, so why start now....
> 
> You can rope outside off of all my horses in just a halter, and one you can ride with just your legs and seat, no bridle or halter.
> 
> But you don't see me putting videos on YouTube or have a website.
> 
> Anyone can learn the mechanics of horse training, that's the easy part. What makes a good trainer is getting in the horses head and thinking like a horse. I think this what you are saying his message is. However it doesn't come across that way in his videos.


Yeah, the whole halter riding thing is not that big a deal. I do it too sometimes. Though I think that a true hackamore has a bit more pre-signal. I'm really interested in the hackamore. 

Confucious, I know that you're friends with him and think he's the greatest. That's fine. Your experience is different than mine. I'm speaking from my own. My experience was that the dude was cool just so long as I didn't challenge him on his BS. I didn't, at first, though he was continually doing it to me. One day I just got fed up with it and hit him back a little bit, and that's when he started talking to me like he does everyone else that disagrees with him. 

I don't know how anyone with so little tolerance for disagreement or willingness to call their own beliefs into question can be a teacher, but..whatever.


----------



## AmazinCaucasian

I'm glad this thread got jump-started again. If a person idolizes Rick Gore, it says alot about your level of knowledge. If you are so desperate for help that you'll take advice from an obnoxious, overbearing, foul-mouthed novice, you are bottom of the barrel. I mean, more than 50% of my shoeing customers are more horseman than him. And I'm talking about recreational trail riders. Just random horse owners. I can't understand how anyone would be around him with horses. He is a raw beginner and he behaves like an ego-driven cop on a power trip. 

I saw a little bit of Ian's video and in my opinion, Rick should take some notes. 

And Confuscious, you're probably right. He's probably not on this site. He's on HIS site, his YouTube channel, and his facebook page deleting people who don't agree with him. He should be on here though. He could learn something


----------



## nrhareiner

ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr said:


> Yes, he USED to be a police detective. He's also a proud veteran.
> 
> *I too was a cop. Big whoop. Dose not mean you can act like that.*
> 
> There's one video with him riding the palomino in just a rope halter, with a one rein lead rope and holding a phone at the same time and goes from a canter to a halt. No skill in being able to do that? I think that's pretty good myself.
> *Ya so I can do it on all my horses. Even my 2yo do this. It is working off your seat and all mine are trained that way from day one. *
> 
> Anyone can pick him apart to make themselves feel better as much they like. If that makes them feel better, well, that says alot about them. The videos aren't about HIM. It's not about what shirt he wears, or if he looks like a truck driver or what his laugh sounds like. He gives out the information for the HORSE. He doesn't claim to be the best rider out there, he doesn't claim to be the top hand. He says time and time again about having to develop yourself to be good with horses. It's not about how well he rides, the videos just aren't about that. It's about understanding them, observing them continually, understanding what you do influences everything your horse does and developing that, and not just believing everything some 'trainer' tells you or believing what you _think_ you see in some random video. It goes way deeper than the surface of his outward appearance in the videos.


The thing is that is NOT what I am seeing. I am seeing a person who THINKS they have all the info anyone will ever need and fact is he dose not. I was watching one of his videos where he says the horse has not been ridden in a few months and that was why he was acting like that. Although the advice was not bad, I say it should not matter how long it has been since you last rode a horse unless it is a young green horse. I have a stallion here who I have not ridden in about a year and a 1/2 and I know for a fact I can go out right now saddle him up get on and he will ride the same today as he did the last time I rode him. He will stand still until told to move. He will only do what he is asked when he is asked. Same with my mares. I can go out and saddle up my broodmares and they will work the same today as they did when I stopped riding them. Granted I would not ask them to do what they where doing back then as they are out of shape but they would still do it if I asked.


----------



## COWCHICK77

AmazinCaucasian said:


> I'm glad this thread got jump-started again. If a person idolizes Rick Gore, it says alot about your level of knowledge. If you are so desperate for help that you'll take advice from an obnoxious, overbearing, foul-mouthed novice, you are bottom of the barrel. I mean, more than 50% of my shoeing customers are more horseman than him. And I'm talking about recreational trail riders. Just random horse owners. I can't understand how anyone would be around him with horses. He is a raw beginner and he behaves like an ego-driven cop on a power trip.
> 
> I saw a little bit of Ian's video and in my opinion, Rick should take some notes.
> 
> And Confuscious, you're probably right. He's probably not on this site. He's on HIS site, his YouTube channel, and his facebook page deleting people who don't agree with him. He should be on here though. He could learn something


Can I git an Amen brotha!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## nrhareiner

Wow just wow is all I can say. I commented on his video calling him out and he responds by calling me names then he blocks me from posting back. Really this is anyone s Ideal? Can not even take criticism of what he says and dose by people who are actually there.


----------



## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr

'The greatest'?! LOL. I said I like him alot. Friends with him? So he's on my youtube friends list - lol, does that make him my friend? I don't even live in the US.

I don't 'idolize' him either - any self-respecting person should question anything they hear. I'm no sheep and I pity anyone who takes any 'trainer's' words as gospel. It says alot about anyone's knowledge if you are out there trying to learn. Especially when you are at an incompetent stage when you ask questions like 'what can I do to stop my 'bratty' horse doing x,y,z?' or 'why does my horse do this?' on forums. Forums such as these that are full of them.
It also says alot about someone else's knowledge to say someone on a forum whom they have never met has no knowledge either when they do not who they are or what they have accomplished either and judge them because of a situation on a forum.


----------



## nrhareiner

ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr said:


> 'The greatest'?! LOL. I said I like him alot. Friends with him? So he's on my youtube friends list - lol, does that make him my friend? I don't even live in the US.
> 
> I don't 'idolize' him either - any self-respecting person should question anything they hear.
> *I agree however your "Friend" does not follow this. If someone does not agree with him he blocks them and calls them names. Too bad he has stopped learning. You can ask any of the trainers I use. They will tell you I ask so many questions even when I know the answer that they at times hate to see me coming.*
> 
> I'm no sheep and I pity anyone who takes any 'trainer's' words as gospel. It says alot about anyone's knowledge if you are out there trying to learn.
> *Could have fooled me. I see you defending him and I see no reason to do so. He has no magic formula he has very little good advice and most that I have seen will get you hurt not help you.
> *
> Especially when you are at an incompetent stage when you ask questions like 'what can I do to stop my 'bratty' horse doing x,y,z?' or 'why does my horse do this?' on forums.
> *Dare you to find me asking any of that type of questions. You can not b/c I do not ask them. I know how to take care of those problems and if I have one that I can not fix I have a long list of well proven trainers who I can and do ask.*
> Forums such as these that are full of them.
> It also says alot about someone else's knowledge to say someone on a forum whom they have never met has no knowledge either when they do not who they are or what they have accomplished either and judge them because of a situation on a forum.


I can agree with this. It takes time to see who knows what. However I will say based on the fact that you think this guy is good says a lot. I really hope I am wrong about that but until I see anything different I will have to take what I see as of now.


----------



## Ian McDonald

ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr said:


> 'The greatest'?! LOL. I said I like him alot. Friends with him? So he's on my youtube friends list - lol, does that make him my friend? I don't even live in the US.


Apologies if I overstate your opinion of the man. It's just that I recall you saying before that you thought Rick Gore is more horseman than Buck Brannaman. That would make Rick Gore, if not THE greatest, certainly one of the greatest around today.


----------



## franknbeans

ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr said:


> 'The greatest'?! LOL. I said I like him alot. Friends with him? So he's on my youtube friends list - lol, does that make him my friend? I don't even live in the US.
> 
> I don't 'idolize' him either - any self-respecting person should question anything they hear. I'm no sheep and I pity anyone who takes any 'trainer's' words as gospel. *It says alot about anyone's knowledge if you are out there trying to learn. Especially when you are at an incompetent stage when you ask questions like 'what can I do to stop my 'bratty' horse doing x,y,z?' or 'why does my horse do this?' on forums. Forums such as these that are full of them.*
> It also says alot about someone else's knowledge to say someone on a forum whom they have never met has no knowledge either when they do not who they are or what they have accomplished either and judge them because of a situation on a forum.


We are ALL here trying to learn. That is what forums are for. SHARING KNOWLEDGE and having discussions. I believe we ALL ask the questions you quoted at one time or another. If you do not, then you are more arrogant than I can fathom. *At some point a horse will make you wish you had asked them. *I believe I learn something every single time I interact with a horse. Maybe you just aren't paying attention.

What your individual level of knowledge is not at question here, so you can stop being defensive. I believe people are disagreeing with Rick Gore, who apparently (I don't know him) doesn't practice as he preaches.


----------



## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr

Ian McDonald said:


> Apologies if I overstate your opinion of the man. It's just that I recall you saying before that you thought Rick Gore is more horseman than Buck Brannaman. That would make Rick Gore, if not THE greatest, certainly one of the greatest around today.


I said I don't know much of Buck's 'teachings'. I can't care to go back and confirm and recheck what I said, but I remember seeing one video of buck with a huge leverage bit on that horse with sharp spurs, and that was the reason in that moment comparing the video I preferred Rick to Buck. But like I said, I havent seen much of Buck, and anyway, all these so called 'trainers' teach the same thing anyway - it's just explained differently with different words, and it takes a long time until you 'get it'. And even when you 'get it' you still have to continue.

Buck don't always ride with bits and spurs, I've since then discovered that. I still don't consider anyone 'the greatest', whether others do or not. I like to follow my own opinions, not the majority. Buck may be a better rider, he may have better skills, he may be 'nicer' in how he gets his audiance. I don't care. Because I don't follow the majority opinion, I must be lacking in knowledge? You can say you think so, I could say I think others are too, it doesn't make it so.


----------



## bubba13

So it's the spade bit that's giving you issues? Do you even know how a spade bit is used, or what it means for a horseman?


----------



## nrhareiner

bubba13 said:


> So it's the spade bit that's giving you issues? Do you even know how a spade bit is used, or what it means for a horseman?


I agree it is not the bit it is not the spur it is the person behind the bits and spurs. Just like "Guns do not kill people. People kill people" Same with anything. Used correctly with the correct purpose and skill they are great tools. Nothing more or less.


----------



## smrobs

Bubba, my guess would be "no".

Confucius, I really suggest you take some time to go out and really educate yourself on other people than Rick Gore and some of the methods that actually require that you know that you're doing and be **** good at it. Just because he rides with no spurs and in a halter does not mean that he understands horses and is all goody-goody and "good for the horse". In the videos that I've seen him riding in, he's been harsher with the halter than anyone who rides in a spade would ever dream of being. That, to me, does not speak well of his horsemanship ability even if I discounted his childish demeanor and snobby attitude.


----------



## COWCHICK77

Oh man! I sure did miss a lot while I was outside riding my horses with my big mean spade bit and sharp pointy spurs.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DragonflyStables

Oh Goodness! It never ceases to amaze me at how irate this gentleman gets in his videos  I have to say on his behalf, that I am glad he cares about the horses welfare. I do wish, however, he would learn, that a quiet voice shows wisdom, and more people would be willing to listen to him, than they do now with his foolish tongue. I do not know about other breeds, but I have been re-training ex-show horses as trail and pleasure mounts in the gaited horse world for 15 years, and have seen many of the things he mentioned and much worse. This link is just a small example of how bad it really is ( The Horse | Tennessee Walking Horse Celebration CEO to Retire ) Sometimes, after removing those giant racking pads, it would take us months to get their hooves to even resemble hooves again  Not to mention re-growing sored off hair and fixing their severe fear of humans, because of very extensive abuse. I have had to fly sheet many horses whose tail nerves were cut in order to give them protection from insects. However, it is not fair for him to include all "show participants" into his video, because there are a great many trainers, owners and riders, who still show for the love of honest competition on horses, which has a heart fluttering feeling second only maybe to your first kiss  He would do well, to rethink his approach, and consider how much good his videos are actually doing. Ranting is never very productive, and insulting those who train and show with kindness right along with those who are cruel is wrong. No - one is the perfect trainer, and we are all always learning, and he should remember this and focus more on his own training, and learning, than calling others out. Perhaps then, he would be able to help the horses, rather than being brushed off as a jerk.


----------



## nrhareiner

COWCHICK77 said:


> Oh man! I sure did miss a lot while I was outside riding my horses with my big mean spade bit and sharp pointy spurs.....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



yes yes you did. How dare you.


----------



## DragonflyStables

nrhareiner - I love your quote about finding a rope or losing your horse! I can identify more than I would like! Sometimes my mind fails me so much i call my son by my horses name and my horse by my sons name! In all fairness... they both start with J??


----------



## franknbeans

Dragonfly-that is exactly why my current "ride" is named after a beer......the worst I will get is a drink if I misspeak! :wink:


----------



## BellaMFT

ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr said:


> I said I don't know much of Buck's 'teachings'. I can't care to go back and confirm and recheck what I said, but I remember seeing one video of buck with a huge leverage bit on that horse with sharp spurs, and that was the reason in that moment comparing the video I preferred Rick to Buck. But like I said, I havent seen much of Buck, and anyway, all these so called 'trainers' teach the same thing anyway - it's just explained differently with different words, and it takes a long time until you 'get it'. And even when you 'get it' you still have to continue.
> 
> Buck don't always ride with bits and spurs, I've since then discovered that. I still don't consider anyone 'the greatest', whether others do or not. I like to follow my own opinions, not the majority. Buck may be a better rider, he may have better skills, he may be 'nicer' in how he gets his audiance. I don't care. Because I don't follow the majority opinion, I must be lacking in knowledge? You can say you think so, I could say I think others are too, it doesn't make it so.


I really was trying not to comment (although I have been entertained by the posts) but if Rick Gore is so against bits, bridles and spurs. Perhaps he should ride bareback and bridless if he is such a great horsemen. Here is a great expamle. Oh wait she's a woman she can ride or train a horse.


----------



## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr

nrhareiner said:


> I agree it is not the bit it is not the spur it is the person behind the bits and spurs. Just like "Guns do not kill people. People kill people" Same with anything. Used correctly with the correct purpose and skill they are great tools. Nothing more or less.


Exactly. Hence the phrase the bit is only as severe as the hands using them. It was a spade bit? I didn't look that closely at the video. I used to use bits, as I was taught to do so, as are most people, but I no longer use them. No, correct, I have no issues with it since he was not pulling or yanking, that's not what it's for. I'm just not into the communication via metal thing now, for reasons that are pointless discussing here because most could probably discuss it til the cows come home, and I am sort of outnumbered lol and I can't spend my time doing that. That would be like me going into a forum full of muslims and talking christianity - it just won't work.
So I guess I've just have to agree to disagree with the majority, which don't necessarily make either wrong or right. Perhaps I need to educate myself on why I _should_ use bits again? Yeah maybe. Perhaps others should educate themselves on why using no metal might be better for a horse and for themselves? Yeah maybe. Because at the end of the day, it's all reflective competence. Or perhaps I should re-educate myself on why Rick Gore is these words you call him? Yeah maybe, oh wait hang on, I continue to do that, as I've said already, because you need to be continually questioning what you learn and I'm way past the _way_ he says things, because it's _what_ he actually jibbers on about that is the part I like him for and what I think he's a good horseman for, not necessarily a more skilled horseman. It is all learning and self reflecting and questioning 'why?' If you don't like him, don't. Your life, your choice.


----------



## nrhareiner

ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr said:


> Exactly. Hence the phrase the bit is only as severe as the hands using them. It was a spade bit? I didn't look that closely at the video. I used to use bits, as I was taught to do so, as are most people, but I no longer use them. No, correct, I have no issues with it since he was not pulling or yanking, that's not what it's for. I'm just not into the communication via metal thing now, for reasons that are pointless discussing here because most could probably discuss it til the cows come home, and I am sort of outnumbered lol and I can't spend my time doing that. That would be like me going into a forum full of muslims and talking christianity - it just won't work.
> So I guess I've just have to agree to disagree with the majority, which don't necessarily make either wrong or right. Perhaps I need to educate myself on why I _should_ use bits again? Yeah maybe. Perhaps others should educate themselves on why using no metal might be better for a horse and for themselves? Yeah maybe. Because at the end of the day, it's all reflective competence. Or perhaps I should re-educate myself on why Rick Gore is these words you call him? Yeah maybe, oh wait hang on, I continue to do that, as I've said already, because you need to be continually questioning what you learn and I'm way past the _way_ he says things, because it's _what_ he actually jibbers on about that is the part I like him for and what I think he's a good horseman for, not necessarily a more skilled horseman. It is all learning and self reflecting and questioning 'why?' If you don't like him, don't. Your life, your choice.


The bit is simple one more communication tool. I would rather have 10 ways to communicate is a low voice so I can be heard over shouting with one voice. That is what a bit and spurs give me.

As to Rick Gore. My problem is he talks about things have has no clue about. While I know some things he says does happen. I will not dispute that. There are certain breeds and associations who are bad about keeping control over what their members do. 

However he needs to learn about other disciplines and associations. What he stated about barb wire and reining is just BS. Think about just the lagistices of what he sidcribes. It is not even posible. Then when he is called on it he would rather call you names and block you from the discusion then to hold his own and back up his statements. I have been breeding and showing reining horses for years. I have ridden with trainers like Shawn and Mike Flarida Stacy Westfall and many many others. These are some of the best of the best. You do not get to that level and be that consistent by taking sort cuts in your training.

Also his argument is flawed for one big reason. There is no penalty for a horse picking up the pivot foot. There are no extra points for a horse who does not. It is not about the pivot foot but so much more. Again it just goes to show he knows nothing about reining and really needs to learn before he opens his mouth and when he is corrected by someone who has been reining for years he needs to listen and learn.


----------



## franknbeans

Confuscious-Now I am REALLY confused. Weren't you saying earlier that you couldn't ride with a halter and lead rope? Or was it just that you couldn't STOP with a halter and lead rope? But you use no "metal thing" in your horses mouth......So, do you use a bosal, or a bitless bridle? Or nothing? What DO you use? If you think the "metal thing" is SO distasteful-you may find out that what you are using is actually worse.......just sayin'..........:wink:

For many of us, myself included, the bit and the spur are tools to refine my horses movement. I do NOT use them to make him go forward, turn or stop. I have found it hard, if not impossible to get that same refinement without the proper tools, used properly.


----------



## DragonflyStables

I have to agree with "the use of bits and spurs being used properly". I always try a new horse with a snaffle bit, in a small paddock to get to know them. If I find that they have been mistreated with harsh bits, then, I may go back to using a rope halter to ride them for a while, but if I find that they pay no attention to my leg/hand cues, I may use a bit and spur to help them. Sometimes, a horse appreciates a bit or spurs when they have been desensitized to mouth/leg cues. I have honestly had some horses who preferred a bit, and did not like a halter/hackamore, and others who would fight a bit even when you were not touching it! I do have the luxury of using whatever works because of riding and training pleasure/trail horses, and know that some people have no choice but to use certain bits for showing. I have seen people using snaffles, far more abusively than shank bits, because they were too inexperienced to use any bit correctly, much less be riding at all. so, I guess I am pro bit, no bit, spur, no spur... as long as they are used with knowledge, they are all acceptable tools.


----------



## COWCHICK77

ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr said:


> as I've said already, because you need to be continually questioning what you learn and I'm way past the _way_ he says things, because it's _what_ he actually jibbers on about that is the part I like him for and what I think he's a good horseman for, not necessarily a more skilled horseman. It is all learning and self reflecting and questioning 'why?'


I seriously doubt that Mr. Gore follows the path of always questioning what he already knows...he pretty much thinks he has it figured out all ready...

He can't even handle someone else questioning him, I think that is a sign of ignorance. If someone questions me at least I will try to back it up with a viable argument and try to open my mind to the someone else's opinion.


----------



## franknbeans

DragonflyStables said:


> I have to agree with "the use of bits and spurs being used properly". I always try a new horse with a snaffle bit, in a small paddock to get to know them. If I find that they have been mistreated with harsh bits, then, I may go back to using a rope halter to ride them for a while, but if I find that they pay no attention to my leg/hand cues, I may use a bit and spur to help them. Sometimes, a horse appreciates a bit or spurs when they have been desensitized to mouth/leg cues. I have honestly had some horses who preferred a bit, and did not like a halter/hackamore, and others who would fight a bit even when you were not touching it! I do have the luxury of using whatever works because of riding and training pleasure/trail horses, and know that some people have no choice but to use certain bits for showing. I have seen people using snaffles, far more abusively than shank bits, because they were too inexperienced to use any bit correctly, much less be riding at all. so, I guess I am pro bit, no bit, spur, no spur... as long as they are used with knowledge, they are all acceptable tools.


Well said! I actually had one that would not MOVE in a bitless bridle......:wink:


----------



## Ian McDonald

BellaMFT said:


> I really was trying not to comment (although I have been entertained by the posts) but if Rick Gore is so against bits, bridles and spurs. Perhaps he should ride bareback and bridless if he is such a great horsemen. Here is a great expamle. Oh wait she's a woman she can ride or train a horse.
> 
> Stacy Westfall's Championship Run 2006 - YouTube


Yeah Stacey is excellent. I saw her at Equine Affaire once where she talked about how to go bridleless. She does teach the horse to do this in the bridle, mostly the snaffle bit I think.


----------



## Ian McDonald

*Hey Confuscious*

I got to thinking a little while ago that if you're not from America you probably just aren't aware of the spade bit and the Vaquero bridle horse tradition. I'm still learning about it, so my explanation might not be 100% accurate but I can give the gist of it. 

The spade bit, aka 'the bridle' has a mouthpiece designed to fit in the horse's entire mouth and transmit a very sensitive signal where the horse can feel the slightest movement through the weight of the reins, chains and bit. It allows the rider to guide his horse with very subtle, barely-perceptible cues. Though it does have shanks, they're not meant to be used for leverage. The bit is designed overall to hang in a certain balanced way in the horse's mouth. They teach their horses to work in these bits through a years-long, slow process in which one of the phases is that the horse carries the bit in his mouth but the rider doesn't use it. Instead, he guides the horse with a hackamore placed under the bridle which is actually softer than most rope halters. He only starts to pick up the bridle reins gradually, over months, as the horse learns to accept and carry it. 

I don't speak with authority on the subject, but that's the general theory as I've read and had explained to me by horsemen whom I respect. 

IMO it's fine to want to ride in a halter. Anything you put on a horse's head has pros and cons so it's just whatever you're into. All of them get the job done. It's all about what kind of feel you like your horses to have, I reckon. 

One of the things I told Rick during our conversations was that I judge a horseman based on how his horses look, and even that is just my personal preference and highly subjective. Maybe I don't know what's good. Personally though, I admire a horseman when his horses are mentally connected to him and do their jobs with a certain expression that's simultaneously obedient and relaxed, calm and accepting of their rider. A lot of people can't get that with their horses. They either lack the ability to get their horse to listen to them, or they're on the other end of the scale where they essentially brutalize the horse until it behaves kind of like an empty shell. That latter kind of training won't get an attractive expression from a horse. I would say that the former is more common. Anyone who is horseman enough to be able to achieve the best of both worlds, gets my respect. 

My disagreement with Rick Gore isn't over ideas. It's over his general lack of respect for anyone with a different opinion. I too used to be able to overlook his attitude, until it was directed at me. Then I had to say I'm not going to put up with it. You may have the same experience one of these days, or maybe not. He did mention you to me and said that he thought you were pretty cool. I'm not trying to get in an argument with you, I think you're welcome to your opinion. You did ask for mine though. ;-)


----------



## COWCHICK77

Ian McDonald said:


> I got to thinking a little while ago that if you're not from America you probably just aren't aware of the spade bit and the Vaquero bridle horse tradition. I'm still learning about it, so my explanation might not be 100% accurate but I can give the gist of it.
> 
> The spade bit, aka 'the bridle' has a mouthpiece designed to fit in the horse's entire mouth and transmit a very sensitive signal where the horse can feel the slightest movement through the weight of the reins, chains and bit. It allows the rider to guide his horse with very subtle, barely-perceptible cues. Though it does have shanks, they're not meant to be used for leverage. The bit is designed overall to hang in a certain balanced way in the horse's mouth. They teach their horses to work in these bits through a years-long, slow process in which one of the phases is that the horse carries the bit in his mouth but the rider doesn't use it. Instead, he guides the horse with a hackamore placed under the bridle which is actually softer than most rope halters. He only starts to pick up the bridle reins gradually, over months, as the horse learns to accept and carry it.
> 
> I don't speak with authority on the subject, but that's the general theory as I've read and had explained to me by horsemen whom I respect.
> 
> IMO it's fine to want to ride in a halter. Anything you put on a horse's head has pros and cons so it's just whatever you're into. All of them get the job done. It's all about what kind of feel you like your horses to have, I reckon.
> 
> One of the things I told Rick during our conversations was that I judge a horseman based on how his horses look, and even that is just my personal preference and highly subjective. Maybe I don't know what's good. Personally though, I admire a horseman when his horses are mentally connected to him and do their jobs with a certain expression that's simultaneously obedient and relaxed, calm and accepting of their rider. A lot of people can't get that with their horses. They either lack the ability to get their horse to listen to them, or they're on the other end of the scale where they essentially brutalize the horse until it behaves kind of like an empty shell. That latter kind of training won't get an attractive expression from a horse. I would say that the former is more common. Anyone who is horseman enough to be able to achieve the best of both worlds, gets my respect.
> 
> My disagreement with Rick Gore isn't over ideas. It's over his general lack of respect for anyone with a different opinion. I too used to be able to overlook his attitude, until it was directed at me. Then I had to say I'm not going to put up with it. You may have the same experience one of these days, or maybe not. He did mention you to me and said that he thought you were pretty cool. I'm not trying to get in an argument with you, I think you're welcome to your opinion. You did ask for mine though. ;-)


Well said Ian!

I just want to add to the spade bit explanation is that the signal actually comes from the sway bars. That is why the amount of "play" in the bit is important to the amount of signal the horse can receive. The spoon size and angle is important that is matched to the size of the horses palate and level of training. The larger spoon covers a wider area displacing the pressure but it still needs to fit the palate and natural headset and level of training. That is why there is different sppon sizes and angles. One spade does not fit all! There is a lot to be considered for fitting this bit to a horse. I think that is why it gets a bad reputation....people just don't understand it. It is actually more pleasing to a horse than a snaffle! If you were to put a snaffle in the crook of your elbow to represent a horses mouth and pulled on it like you were pulling on the reins it feels quite different if you did it with a spade bit. 

I will also say I am not an expert on the spade but I am learning...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Celeste

The horses that Rick Gore uses in his videos are ill mannered and they need to be trained. 

His practices teach unsafe horsemanship and he is going to get somebody killed. I can't get over his video about "how not to get kicked". If someone handled my horses like that, I would throw them off the property. He has no respect for horses and their great strength. 

I also was offended at his remarks about wanting to kill his cat. I think he did not mean it, but someone were his fan and a cat hater, they might not look at it that way. 

I would like to see him with a young mustang or a hot blooded arab or an OTTB.....................


----------



## Ian McDonald

COWCHICK77 said:


> Well said Ian!
> 
> I just want to add to the spade bit explanation is that the signal actually comes from the sway bars. That is why the amount of "play" in the bit is important to the amount of signal the horse can receive. The spoon size and angle is important that is matched to the size of the horses palate and level of training. The larger spoon covers a wider area displacing the pressure but it still needs to fit the palate and natural headset and level of training. That is why there is different sppon sizes and angles. One spade does not fit all! There is a lot to be considered for fitting this bit to a horse. I think that is why it gets a bad reputation....people just don't understand it. It is actually more pleasing to a horse than a snaffle! If you were to put a snaffle in the crook of your elbow to represent a horses mouth and pulled on it like you were pulling on the reins it feels quite different if you did it with a spade bit.
> 
> I will also say I am not an expert on the spade but I am learning...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks, you seem to know your stuff too. I wouldn't mind starting a few colts with you guys one of these days. All that experience must give a person some exceptional instincts and skills. 

I didn't know all that about the spade, though that's no surprise. Every time I learn something it serves to illuminate the fact that I don't know squat.


----------



## COWCHICK77

Celeste said:


> The horses that Rick Gore uses in his videos are ill mannered and they need to be trained.
> 
> His practices teach unsafe horsemanship and he is going to get somebody killed. I can't get over his video about "how not to get kicked". If someone handled my horses like that, I would throw them off the property. He has no respect for horses and their great strength.
> 
> I also was offended at his remarks about wanting to kill his cat. I think he did not mean it, but someone were his fan and a cat hater, they might not look at it that way.
> 
> I would like to see him with a young mustang or a hot blooded arab or an OTTB.....................


I agree, his horses seem to simply tolerate him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## COWCHICK77

Ian McDonald said:


> Thanks, you seem to know your stuff too. I wouldn't mind starting a few colts with you guys one of these days. All that experience must give a person some exceptional instincts and skills.
> 
> I didn't know all that about the spade, though that's no surprise. Every time I learn something it serves to illuminate the fact that I don't know squat.


I feel that we could learn something from each other, and that is the attitude to have! Ian I will invite you out when we get back home!

That is why it so hard to swallow what Rick has to say. He just refuses to listen to any thing else other than his own voice.

I am fortunate enough to made my living with horses and have rode with some exceptional horsemen and cowboys. I am always learning, I may be stubborn about a few things and hate to be wrong, but I will try to see the other side and know with horse training and cowboying comes humility. I will be the first to admit I have stuck my foot in my mouth and have had my *** handed to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Zada2011

I'm making this comment mostly based on his first video about horse show cruelty. Yes he is an extremest, and no I don't think every show person out there does these things to their animals but it does happen. 

The link to the video below explains what soring is. It'd often done to make a horse pick up its legs higher so they'll "perform" better. Irritating chemicals are applied to their front legs with bandages to make them sore, and then the chains cause severe pain when they knock against the skin during the show. Many horses have terrible scars and lesions from this practice. 

The Cruelest Horse Show on Earth : The Humane Society of the United States

As for tails, many methods of tail modification are used to "enhance" the horse's beauty and show performance. Nerve blocking, tail cutting, tail setting and various other methods are used to make the horse score higher in the show rings. Many times this will hinder a horse's ability to swat for flies, either not being able to control the tail at all, or having it bent at some odd angle that doesn't work right.

By no means do I think that everyone in the show ring has done such terrible things to their animals, however such cruelties happen. Research before writing things off as nonsense.


----------



## nrhareiner

I do not think anyone here thinks these things never happen. However to say that all shows are evil is just stupid. Each discipline and each association has its rules. If you do not like them join and work to change then. To sit on the computer post videos and stating things that are very inaccurate then banning people who post and correct the errors is even worse. While what he states have a small amount of truth to it the larger facts he has and the asumptions he makes are all wrong for the vast majority of shows.


----------



## rob

what i like is how he leaves a horse in the pasture with a halter and lead rope on to get hung up on something.


----------



## nrhareiner

That is b/c he can not train them well enough to catch them with out it.


----------



## rob

i believe you're right,reiner.


----------



## Wallee

I have watched several of ricks videos he has out there, He is very opinionated on everything he talks about and some things are kinda right and other things he goes off on rants about is ludicrous. I have come to believe from his standing on women and riding that the man just plain doesnt like women. For what reason I dont know but he rants so much about it that it has become annoying to hear the man say anything about it ha ha. And from how I see him and his horses interacting, he doesnt have to much respect from the horse world either.


----------



## WSArabians

I got a minute and three seconds in and couldn't listen to it anymore.


----------



## Casey02

ahahaha this wonderful man we all seem to "love and adore" horse throws a little buck in the movie smrobs posted way back on page 6 i believe 1:41 seconds! Im a believe now, i want my horse to be just like his LOL!!! gimme a break this guys a joke


----------



## kissmybarrelbutt

SorrelHorse said:


> Please kill me now. Or at least completely block me form these videos, because I'm obsessed with the wackiness...
> 
> Bad things done to horses at shows - Cruel Tricks to Win - Rick Gore Horsemanship - YouTube
> 
> What really kills me about this guy is that he STARTS going in the right direction, then BAM he goes off on a huge rant with ridiculous ideas about what "Actually happens" in this arena.
> 
> What is this STUPID idea about barb wire making a reining horse plant their feet? Deadened tail and ear nerves (Illegal btw)? Marbels in the shoes? SHOCKING?
> 
> Sure, you get those idiots at the run-down rodeos with them crazy cowboys who are shocking all those bucking horses...But for the love of god, when was the last time you saw ANY decent rodeo do that? The bucking straps are lined with fleece for christ's sake....
> 
> I've never done any of those ridiculous tricks he's come up with. Have you?


Never done any of those, but my mare has definitely had tail injections  It has messed up her hocks a little bit too.


----------



## tinyliny

Why didn't you just say "Rick Gore" in the title? Would have saved me the trouble of openning this thread. 
all I can say about him is AGGGHhhhhhhh!


----------



## Palomine

Too tired to read through all pages tonight. Or watch video.

But the things mentioned in opening post of thread, the tail deadening, and the marbles do happen, in different breeds of course, but they do happen.

Along with sewing lips shut to keep horse from gaping mouth in ring, tacks/glass next to frog under pads so horse throws feet up, injecting snake venom into joints, and the use of irritants to make horse keep its neck down.

And forgot to mention the use of wire in draft's mouths to make them appear fiery.

And god knows what else people do.

Sad truth is, if there is a way to "win"? Humans will find it, to give themselves an advantage.


----------



## nrhareiner

Palomine said:


> Too tired to read through all pages tonight. Or watch video.
> 
> But the things mentioned in opening post of thread, the tail deadening, and the marbles do happen, in different breeds of course, but they do happen.
> 
> Along with sewing lips shut to keep horse from gaping mouth in ring, tacks/glass next to frog under pads so horse throws feet up, injecting snake venom into joints, and the use of irritants to make horse keep its neck down.
> 
> And forgot to mention the use of wire in draft's mouths to make them appear fiery.
> 
> And god knows what else people do.
> 
> Sad truth is, if there is a way to "win"? Humans will find it, to give themselves an advantage.


 
Real simple to stop all those things. Rules and the judges. Most of those things can not happen in the NRHA for a simple reason. The judges walk the horse after the run. You have to drop bit they lift the stirups and the tail. If there is so much as a scratch on the horse they are DQed. If all the associations would adopted the same thing it would help out quite a bit. Nothing is going to stop 100% of the things that people do. However it is quite simple to stop a lot of it. They just have to do it. This guy makes it out that EVERYONE does these things in every event and when he started talking about reining horses you could tell he had no clue waht he was talking about.


----------



## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr

Palomine said:


> Sad truth is, if there is a way to "win"? Humans will find it, to give themselves an advantage.


Exactly. All about the human and not the horse. And that goes alot further than just those things mentioned.


----------



## Hickory67

I wasn't aware this type of thing happened...absolutely terrible! It is a sad commentary on the human condition.


----------



## Big Black Crow

The reason he gives away so much info for free???? That is exactly what it is worth. There are cheaters and liars and shortcutters in every aspect of life. It is wrong to lump what a few do on everyone that wins. I've won plenty and never did any of the crap it supposedly takes to win......


----------



## Army wife

Has anyone ever heard or seen someone actually use barbed wire with a reining horse? sorry to start this thread back up, I just wanted to know.


----------



## nrhareiner

Been reining for over 15 years. Have friends who where part of starting the NRHA and I have never seen or hurd of any of the things he talks about in reining. It makes very little sence as it would not help.


----------



## Palomine

Worked for woman who was #2 ranked Non-Pro in Reining back in 2000 and for couple years. Never saw anything, or heard anything about barbed wire. Much time was taken with the training of the horses, and handled well, and treated well.

But I don't doubt that some fool somewhere is using it. And who knows what else.

Think is, while many people would rather not show, or even have horses if this was done, and they knew it? There are far too many people out there, that will take shortcuts, or what is worse, have no clue as to what they are doing, and how to achieve something with their horses.

This is why you see people chasing a horse in a round pen for 3 or more hours to "join up." And so on.

Even if there were no horse shows period? As long as horses are being owned, there is going to be a fool out there somewhere.

And isn't this the same fool that hates women???


----------



## nrhareiner

What people do not understand is that if there are holes in a reining horse (really any horses) training at any point it is going to show up latter. So while you might get there faster by taking a short cut at the end of the day that short cut is going to come back to bit you in the rear.


----------



## xJumperx

eliduc said:


> Yes, that's right. Dogs wag and horses swish. I bought an oil painting when I was at Mule Days in Bishop, California.


Really off topic, but I've actually shown at the Mule Days in Bishop before  It's an awesome show - one of my favorites!!

As for Rick Gore? He isn't worth my spit.


----------

