# Riding Instructors and Yelling/Insults?



## clippityclop

LOL! I have a dressage USEF judge that I hire from time to time to cross train with endurance - she is a yeller, freak-out-er, curser, bellower, name caller, crazy woman in her 50's. She is really good, but has ZERO personality. I have known so many good and bad types that I've come to realize that there are people like this no matter where you go - work, play, hobbies, grocery store, walmart on black friday...hahaha! I blow it off and try to listen to the real lesson within and just focus on the dressage. 

The very first time I rode for her on a horse I had just began riding a month before (and I've been riding/breaking/training for over 25 years) I was trying to explain that this horse was new and I was getting to know him so bare with me...she said 'Don't even bother trying to make excuses for your riding - I can look at you and see that you don't have any clue what you are doing'.........:rofl:

It did not phase me a bit because I know very well what I'm doing but I just didn't have a clue about dressage - especially the terminology - and was very green. It wasn't until about three lessons later she realized I wasn't a total idiot and even tho she still got hot and bothered, she gained respect for my abilities and attitude because I DIDN'T ever let it rile me - and I certainly got my money's worth - she can give you enough of an education in 3 lessons to last you an entire year - she was incredibly good at explaining things and working things out.

But you know, there are a few female adult riders like myself that I tried to talk into taking lessons with me (group lessons were considerably cheaper) and they flat out said 'with her? are you freaking kidding?' HAHAA! So I DO know what you mean - been there myself - but it's just another personality so it doesn't bother me. But to be honest, she doesn't make much money training because of the way she is...you'd never want to send a child to a trainer like this - it would not only ruin their desire for horse activities for life, but quite possibly ruin their self confidence in general.

Are bossy trainers better? Good question - I've never used a dressage trainer that wasn't bossy/prissy/Type AAA - do they exist? LOL! I'd love to hear what others think as well!


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## Fulford15

Oh, I got yelled at until I bawled my eyes out and was told to "Suck it Up Buttercup"(That was one of the "nicer" things said to me) Every lesson... swore at, etc.. At that point, I tried to brush it off and take it with a grain of salt once I got used to it.
Personally, I am glad now that the coach I had was pretty rough on me was I was a kid, I am my worst enemy now and I am very tough on my self when it comes to riding... Which I really don't mind cause it pushes myself mentally to keep going and learning and being the best I can...

My coach now has never raised her voice once, she has a speaker/headset she wears, the only time she yells is when she gets exciting, she has constructive critisim and still pushes you hard but in a professional type way.

I would say the yelling, etc, not professional what so ever.


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## Tessa7707

I'm not a 4th level dressage trainer, but I do make my living with my horsemanship lesson business, and have been trained extensively in effective teaching. Granted, the vast majority of my students are children, but I have always been trained to retain my composure no matter the circumstances. In my experience, the moment you begin yelling at a student, they panic and shut down, their brains stop working, they become afraid, and do nothing. Clear, concise instruction guides much, much better. Preparation for these short cues are necessary for them to work, they associate the 5 minute explanation with the 1 to 3 word direction, and its less confusing. If all else fails, stop and recompose, re-explain, and try again. We were taught to remain calm and composed even in emergency situations, say for example, a runaway horse, I'm speaking loudly 'One rein stop', because they have been taught and have practiced it, not yelling "stop him!" Also, saying the same th ing over again, only louder, is lousy instruction as well. With the hitting, yeah, sometimes a horse needs a pop from the student, but we're going to be prepared for that "if he does 'A' you do 'B'" and then when it does happen, because they are prepared, I usually don't have to say anything, I just need to let them sort it out and correct the horse. If they do need to be told, I will say "correct him for that, that's not ok" if I find I haven't fully prepared them to correct the horse, we stop, explain, try again. No, I don't want the horse to get away with the behavior, but if they fail its not the horse or students fault, it's mine for not preparing them. I took one dressage lesson from a 4th level rider, and I never got the impression that she could make it from her calm, teaching tone to outright yelling. 
A lot of people are great with horses, and just suck with their people skills.


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## Tessa7707

Whoops, double post, sorry


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## Copperhead

I had a great instructor who would do humiliating things. That was her way of yelling, I suppose.

She had a microphone and once when I wasn't paying attention (I didn't think she was talking to me), she pounded the microphone on the desk and yelled through it "HEY *insert my last name*! IS THIS THING ON?!" 

She had ways of lifting you up, or destroying you, or pushing you to the next step without having to yell insults. She was a very clever woman and was able to manipulate me into making me push myself harder so she didn't have to. Loved her.

I wouldn't take a lesson from someone who yelled insults at me. Its unprofessional. I'd take the bait and start insulting back. It happened to one woman I never really liked because of her yelling problem. 4 lessons in I just started screaming insults back a her and literally drove her out of the arena. She quit the lesson.

Some people love that type of instructor. Others will be crushed by it, but the instructor's thoughts on that is that they have to "toughen" you up to win, and if you can't handle it, you might as well quit now than later.


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## Delfina

clippityclop said:


> Are bossy trainers better? Good question - I've never used a dressage trainer that wasn't bossy/prissy/Type AAA - do they exist? LOL! I'd love to hear what others think as well!


I haven't found one! :lol:

It's pretty hilarious because my trainer does kid lessons and huge, huge, huge difference, she is so polite and sweet and encouraging and the second the kid is out of earshot she's screaming at me to "get your F'NG heels DOWN!"

I'm really good friends with my last trainer (I passed the level she's comfortable training at) and my horse is at her place. She has NO qualms about screaming across the entire property at me if she doesn't like what she sees! She screams, yells, I fix the problem and we go off to lunch and laugh about it. 

I don't mind, scream and yell at me if that's what it takes. Heck especially when it's FREE screamed advice!!


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## onuilmar

I guess you have to be rather confident to tolerate being yelled at. 

I started riding at a much older age and am very much aware of what I don't know. One instructor was super critical and all it did was make me lose confidence in what I did know. 

But that's me. Clearly, up thread others don't have that problem.


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## Tessa7707

I have had mentors that yelled at me, but jokingly, never angry with me, so I see what you're saying Delfina. Haha, I have had that exact phrase yelled at me. (Get your effing heels down!) but nothing like what the op seems to be describing. I can't imagine any of my mentors losing their minds on me and yelling at me. I'm riding because its fun, and its no fun having someone scream at you and tell you your efforts are pathetic.


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## Haileyyy

I am the type that can't handle being yelled at, although I wish I wasn't haha. As soon as someone yells at me I start to get stressed out and either shutdown or I don't retain a single thing that is being yelled at me. 

I've had my fair share of screaming trainers though. The only time I had to cut a lesson short as a kid was when a new instructor of mine started to scream at me and yell about my pony. I was about 9 at the time, and left the lesson in tears. I only had half of a lesson with her but she was a fantastic trainer and I wish I had stuck with her for a few more. 

I've always learned best with constructive criticism. If I am doing something wrong, tell me without sugar coating it. But DO NOT degrade me, especially in front of my peers. I understand the occasional joke but I will not pay to be yelled at for upwards of an hour.


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## COWCHICK77

I have worked as an apprentice/assistant trainer and paid for lessons under those conditions.

I am a little thinned skinned but I figure it is the price I pay if I want to get better. I don't want to be told how wonderful I am or how I did a great job training my horse. I might get a little butt-hurt at the time, but I promise the next time I will try my hardest not to make the same mistake.
One trainer I worked for finally figured it out, about two days before he would leave for a show I would get a lesson. He would hammer on me hard for a couple of days, then load up and leave for a few days or up to a couple of weeks for shows.
By time he got back I would have it figured out and all my colts would be doing what he hammered on me for before he left. 

*So here is the important part, the trainer has to be just as good getting into peoples heads as getting into horses for the lessons to work.

*Maybe you think your trainer is rude or someone elses, but maybe that is what that person needs in order to improve. Or they could just be screamers....


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## CowboyBob

I work in camping kids come for a week ride go home forget everything come back next year and do it all over again. this is the very reason I hire wranglers that love working with kids, I have found I can teach most people how to teach stop start steering, walk trot. But I have never been able to teach a "horse person" like you all have been talking about to love teaching kids. I find them once in a while but they are few and far between.
all of your story made me smile. thanks


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## JustImagine

Haha, I think the SAME thing; a quarter horse trainer boards one of her horses at my barn to give a little girl lessons during the winter because we have an indoor arena. She is seriously the sweetest little girl, and this trainer SCREAMS at her. Tonight, the trainer went to turn on the arena lights and 30 seconds later walks in and starts yelling at the girl "YOU'RE NOT TACKED UP YET? YOU SHOULD BE TACKED IN 3 MINUTES." And looks at me and says "It's true; if you can't tack in 3 minutes you might as well not ride." and I said 'Well, that's too bad because I take an hour" ;]
I'd start sobbing if my trainer ever yelled at me like that and she knows it, so she doesn't. She knows she can use tone with me to make me really comply to something, but that's it.


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## TurkishVan

clippityclop said:


> Are bossy trainers better? Good question - I've never used a dressage trainer that wasn't bossy/prissy/Type AAA - do they exist? LOL! I'd love to hear what others think as well!


Haha! Actually I *did* find one that is in NOOOO way a Type "AAA", bossy, or prissy, as you put it! She got her graduate degree from Meredith Manor, rode wth the Royal Lippizzaners, and is as sweet as can be. Before the barn where she had her lesson horses closed down, I had taken quite a few lessons with her, and got to know her personality well. She would bend over backwards to help me understand something. Usually our "1-hour" lesson would be much, much longer, because I asked so many questions! And she never demanded any more money for it either! 

I was very surprised that no one else utilizes her talents, so that's why I posted this question. I've suggested that they take lessons from her, since she's so good, and so calm & sane, but they harbor some sort of resentment that their trainers have passed on to them. It's like a child hating something that its parent hates, lol! It's so ridiculous!

So yes, they DO exist! It's just hard to find them! And who would've thought that I'd find her in IOWA, of all places?! 


Onuilmar - I'm not super confident either. In fact, when I started taking lessons with the riding instructor now, I told her, "I've ridden western my entire life. I'm not that good. I consider myself to have okay balance. Teach me like you're teaching someone to ride for the first time." And that approach has worked great! But honestly, I've never played the "overconfident cowgirl" type of role. My thoughts are, "Okay, I'm on a 1000 lb. animal that could kill me if it wanted to... Any attempts to 'overpower' it are going to be laughable..."

I don't mind criticism either- in fact, I LOVE criticism, as long as it's constructive. Insults and degrogatory behavior makes me angry, because how is that helping? Calling the rider "stupid" isn't solving the problem! 

I hope current, or future, riding instructors are reading this. 
The best coaches and trainers I've ever, ever encountered were calm, and did not insult their students. Positive reinforcement will work so much better than negative reinforcement! Riding lessons should not be like boot camp!


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## Copperhead

The one woman who I drove out of the arena was a much better rider than I was, obviously...since I was taking lessons from her (I had seen her ride and the lesson was mandatory because of my employer). But I knew *enough* to bite back when I did.

She was screaming at me about collection in a dressage lesson on a horse who had never trained in dressage before (my fourth lesson, his first with her). I couldn't even had expected him to come off the forehand, let alone collect. She was telling me what a horrid rider I was for not being able to collect, balance, straighten, relax, etc. in the forth lesson. I stopped my horse and screamed at her that when she rides, her legs are all over the place, her hands are never steady, her posture is slouched and her horse was unforgivably behind the verticle and hollowed out so much that I wouldn't shame myself with taking another lesson from her even if it got me fired.

She walked straight out of the arena and drove off, so I must have hit a nerve. I rode the horse home. I wasn't fired. I told my boss to find me someone better if they expected me to take lessons, because the last one was subpar.

Seriously, if you're going to scream at me about impossible tasks, make sure you can do it yourself.


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## fkonidaris

When I got back into riding, I went to an English show barn where the trainer/instructor/BO was a dressage rider and man did she yell! I will say her knowledge and expertise of horses was phenomenol, but if you couldn't do it perfectly or get it right by the second try she would just scream and rant and insult to no end. It wasn't just the adult riders either, she yelled at the kids as well. I used the lesson horses at the time and each lesson was on a different lesson horse and I asked her one time about what size girth went with which horse and she stood there and called me an incompetent idiot for not knowing. One of the horses did not stand well in cross ties and didn't pick his feet up well and he tried to kick me. When I asked her for help, she told me to learn from experience and I was on my own. Yikes! Well, I didn't stay there and moved to the barn where I'm at now and absolutely love it. I was losing my confidence at the other barn and was always a nervous wreck going. I loved her level of expertise, but it was not worth losing my confidence and love of riding.


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## TurkishVan

So many interesting stories! I always thought that riding instructors like that were rare, but apparently they're more common than I originally thought. 

At least the bad experiences really make the good riding instructors shine, eh?


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## Horsigirl

Seems like everyone agrees we dont like being screamed at during lessons.. Except if the advice is free
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Muppetgirl

I haven't had a pile of time to read all the responses, but I have been yelled at, screamed at, insulted, embarrassed......but I never forgot that lesson!


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## Nevreme

My first riding instructor was fantastic, but a total nutcase. She would scream, yell, threaten (things like pulling me off the horse, making me ride horses I didn't like, riding without stirrups, etc, never abuse), cajole, whatever it took to make me do what she wanted me to do. Sometimes it took a lot; I was a stubborn kid. Sometimes she scared me, sometimes she made me cry. But I always learned something, and I always ended my lesson with a smile. And in the end I think the most valuable lesson I learned from her was how to put up with crazy horse ladies.

My two instructors that came after her (current included) are absolutely wonderful, sweet, friendly, women. Neither of them have ever yelled at me unless it was to make themselves heard across the ring or field. My current instructor can be just as scary without yelling as my first could be while yelling though....Haha. It's a talent. Most of her young students are terrified of her, which is completely ridiculous because she's so nice. She isn't afraid to get strict with us older, more advanced girls though. I've been told that if I can't get my hands out of the mane I'll have to ride without reins, and if I can't get my knee off the saddle I'll be riding without stirrups.


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## Corporal

A coach is different from a teacher, but I see NO reason to be so unsocial. If you tt people who have had a clinic with George Morris, he sets the bar very high, and doesn't accept excuses, but he doesn't dress people down. IMHO he is an AWESOME coach.
Nadia Komanic (sp?), of the "Perfect 10" Olympic Gymnastic score, came to the US to coach, and found softies, everywhere. But, she didn't scream at the people she was coaching.
Coaches don't do ANYBODY any favors being nice. The coaches of "The Fighting Illini" football team are always telling the press how great the players are, and then, they put in a losing season, constantly dropping the ball. Poor coaching. Nick Saban, on the other end of the spectrum, has great expectations and he will criticize his team at 1/2-time, even when they are winning the game. But he doesn't treat his players like crap. He does get results. 
Who is this coach, she she is better than the people I just mentioned?


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## BigBenLoverforLife

Oh gosh. There is a instructor in town who has made grown men cry from yelling at them, and they dont even want her help. One trainer I had threaten to hit me with whips, called me stupid, made me cry, and once my horse wasnt troting fast enough for halter so she got on her tractor and CHASED us around the arena to make her move fast. My parents just stood and watched at everything, and I had no choice. I hated it.


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## waresbear

Instructors that I take lessons from & pay them money, yell at me?! Um no, that is just rude and I would prolly get off the horse and bust 'em in the chops, my instructors thus far have been adept at getting instruction across without yelling, etc. HOWEVER,,,,when I was younger & learning to train horses, the trainer I was working for yelled & swore at me, but HE was paying ME to ride. And another trainer I was riding for would sometimes yell at me, not much, but she did, and again SHE was paying Me.


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## natisha

Some people just have a mouth to match their ego.


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## TheAQHAGirl

I've never had this happen before.

While I agree with Corporal, yelling and being tough (american-football players for example) always come out stronger.

However I happen to be one of the 'sensitive-flowers'. I kinda mind yelling. If your going to yell, yell at me for something its worth. But if anyone cusses, calls me pitiful names, and threatens me, no way am I going to pay for anything. 

If they feel they need to yell they better be darn well realistic.


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## Ashsunnyeventer

I had a trainer who yelled at me for everything. I asked too many questions. I didn't ask enough questions. My horse was passive agressive (actually he was just asleep). I don't care enough. I care too much. On and on and on. After awhile, it just became a joke. I got in the car to go home and my mom would try to guess what my trainer had yelled at me.

I could handle the yelling because, whether i like to admit it or not, this lady knew what she was talking about, she just didn't know how to communicate it correctly. The worst was when she would ask me a question (to which I had no idea what the answer was) and then she would laugh at what I said. Sure, the answer might not be right, but teach me- don't laugh at me. That really destroyed my confidence.

The breaking point was when I was at my first novice event. We had walked the course and there was a tricky combintion in the woods. When I rode the course, I had a stop at that combination. When I got off course, I was yelled at, in front of everyone, because I didin't ride the same line we walked. First of all, the line we walked was ridiculous, and second- she couldn't even see it- it was in the woods! So the whole way back to the trailer I'm getting yelled at about how "that was NOT novice riding" and how I don't deserve to compete if I can't show that I really want it (she's doing this as we pass my old trainers and people I knew...). And then, when we finally got back to the trailers, she laughs and says in a loud voice, "Don't be so hard on yourself, everyone screws up. You can't expect your horse to do all of the work for you. I'm sure everyone around here agrees with me" and all of the other people from other trailers had to pitch in. This was the last straw. I started taking lessons at another barn 1 month later and moved my horse 3 months later. (Also, I ended up getting second place after she told me that I didn't deserve to compete)

I have so many stories about how awful this lady was, but in the end, she taught me how to be a rider not a passenger. So, I guess you can say that trainers that yell can be super helpful, as long as they aren't mean. There's a difference in yelling constructively and yelling to make the rider fell awful about themselves.

She is also some what of an inspiration to me. Everytime I'm at a show and I really need to buckle down and focus, I imagine that this trainer is watching me. I feel like I have to prove her wrong- that I DO deserve to ride and compete. This makes me work my hardest when it really counts. It's all about how you twist the situation- it can be constructive, or it can be really bad for your confidence


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## skittlesfirehawk

the best trainer i had said and i quote you get the nice me i used to make my students cry and if they couldnt handle it they didnt deserve to be taught.She was a yeller never humilating but she got mad if you she showed you something and then 2 minutes later you messed up.shes much harder on the older girls.She also didnt put up with crap which i loved.one girl came in one day and got put on a horse named gray pony and the girl says i dont want to ride that horse he dosnt like me so my trainer goes hes an advanced horse you should be lucky i let you ride him and if you dont want to ride him you can go home


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## minstrel

I absolutely love my shouty instructor! When I was younger I was a very nervous rider, and when things went wrong I wold tend to caught up in the adrenaline and panic. Having someone who I was more scared of than the horse shouting at me to get things under control was what I needed to sort myself out in those moments. Growing up, she rarely shouts at me now - I respond to what she tells me to and we see results, so she doesn't need to. If I act pathetic, she'll tell me, straight up - it gets the last reserves of strength out if me if she shouts that coming into the final line of a treble over a practice course, I find the extra something to hold together through the last fences. I wouldn't swap my instructor for anything, despite her having made me cry, made me so mad I could punch her etc. However, she always has my best interests at heart, and is trying to make me ride better, and she has made me a tougher rider. At the end of that day, what a horse can throw at me is way worse than what anyone could ever shout, and she motivates me to achieve, even if it's sheer determination to prove her wrong sometimes! And the minute I'm out of the saddle, we're best friends and can chat things through again.

The number of times when I first started showing when I was younger, were I was terrified to the point of shaking because I knew my horse was going to chuck me, and she was there to tell me to man up and sort myself out, and that would motivate me to do it. And I never regretted a moment of it.


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## Tessa7707

There are better ways of motivating a rider to be better than insulting and yelling. Period. I would never pay nor expect to be paid for that type of instruction. If you've ever had an instructor that can motivate you without calling you names and insulting you in front of your peers, you know that it's just as constructive with the added bonus of not feeling like a total failure for all of your efforts and, get this, still having fun? I don't know about you guys, but I didn't _start_ riding to _win_ competitions, I started riding because it's _fun_. Yeah, that's an awesome payoff for your efforts, but I commend the person who is still having a good time despite where they place. Not crying and beating themselves up because they weren't perfect.


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## Foxhunter

I have met all sorts of instructors in my career. Majority are less tough nowadays than the 'ex army' of 40 years ago!

I love teaching and have ben told I am very good at it. Some pupils need a kick up the butt whilst others need encouraging and even if it has been a bad lesson all should leave the arena feeling that something has been achieved even if it is how not to do something!

I was working full time with horses and had the chance to go on a course with an Olympic Event trainer. 
The woman who arranged this was competing at Badminton so, basically this was her chance of getting a tune up and the rest of us were paying for it. 

Much to my amazement instead of being given a time for instruction it was an all day thing with 14 horses in the arena at the same time. It was ridiculous, overcrowded, all sizes of horse, all experience of riders and all different experience with the horses. I was riding a green mare that had done very little. 

The first morning about 6 people left the arena in tears. Two came back in the afternoon, one left again as did two other different people.
The instructor was good, he really knew his stuff but was rude, arrogant and determined to end up with only a few riders in the arena.
I have always been stubborn and was going to get my moneys worth and no matter what he called me, screamed and swore I was not going to either cry or leave. The only person who got any praise was the Badminton rider. 

One poor woman kept leaving and coming back. She had a very nice 15.2 h grey mare that was a bit beyond her ability. We were doing some grid work and the mare was not going an inch. He yelled and the woman left in tears, leaving her horse. He put the Badminton rider up on the horse and she did no better and the mare was refusing to go over the three trot poles into the grid. (At least this was getting her yelled at!)
I turned to the girl next to me and remarked that I thought I knew what he was getting at.
That man must have ears of a bat because he yelled at me "If you think you can do better, get on the horse!"
I dismounted and handed my horse to the girl next to me and vaulted onto the mare. The stirrups were to small for me, so I crossed them in front of the saddle. The mare was not moving away from the leg so I cracked her two with my whip. She shot off at a fast canter and I brought her back to a trot. Going into the poles she was backing off so I cracked her again. The result was that she scrambled over the trot poles, knocked the first X rail, was going to stop at the bounce so got another crack, went over the bounce and hit the fence out of the grid.

I was hollered at and called all sorts of names. I turned and said "Well, I was taught that if you put a horse at a fence it either went over it or through it but never stayed the same side or went around. Now, she will do it correctly." 
Before he could say anything I took the mare back to the grid and this time she was trot, trot, trot, bounce, bounce, bounce, one stride and them two. She did it beautifully, no hesitation or thought about running out. Ears pricked and forward going.
I dismounted and handed him the reins and remarked "Well, I think that is what you wanted." and remounted my horse.

After five days of this type of instruction we had a talk. At the end of this he came to me and said "You have made more improvement than anyone else."
I returned with "Well, had you once given me a world of encouragement I am sure I would have improved more."

To be a good teacher is a gift. It is knowing when and what to yell. It is understanding the temperament of rider and horse. It is an ability to when things are not getting through, being able to look inside oneself and put whatever in another way. 

Many top riders will do courses but it does not mean they can teach!

I do admit to yelling and my voice carries! A rider concentrating often needs something to break through the concentration at that particular moment and a good voice will do that!

As I said, even if a ride has not gone well all should leave realising that although it was not the best things were learned.


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## faiza425

I'm one of those ultra-sensitive people who shuts down if someone yells at me. (Yes, I'm a huge pansy but I can't help it, unfortunately) I'm also very hard on myself.
Luckily, my current instructor doesn't yell (except to make her voice carry across the arena). Even on days when I'm being a complete ****-head and I can't get anything right. She corrects, but not meanly, and also makes a point of telling me what I did right. She doesn't sugar-coat, she doesn't tell me to get it right; she knows my limits but knows when to push me.
I think if I had an instructor who yelled, screamed, swore, or put me down, I wouldn't learn anything and dread going to the barn. And I wouldn't put up with it - why pay someone to insult you? Mother in laws will do it for free.


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## TimberRidgeRanch

I havent read all the posts to this subject But if I do repeat what someone else has already said I do apologize. Okay here goes.

Running a horse business wethert it be boarding training or lessons is like any other business. I dont see how anyone pays anyone for survices if the person they are paying belittles someone for doing something not quite right or exactly how the person wants it done when asked. You wouldnt want to go back to a store or a restuarant if the manager or owner called you stupid slow not eating right or wearing the correct clothes. So why pay for services if the person giving them stands their and treats you like crap. A self taught instructor is a person who doesnt have much knowledge as far as people skills. Need people skills just as much as riding skills. always said just because you can ride doesnt make you a trainer. Just as much as just because you own a hammer doesnt make you a carpenter.
A good business owner (Trainer ) is one that can get their point across to the student without the insults the yelling swearing rude remarks. If they do not offer respect I would seek else where. JMHO

TRR


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## Foxhunter

faiza425 said:


> I'm one of those ultra-sensitive people who shuts down if someone yells at me. (Yes, I'm a huge pansy but I can't help it, unfortunately) I'm also very hard on myself.
> Luckily, my current instructor doesn't yell (except to make her voice carry across the arena). Even on days when I'm being a complete ****-head and I can't get anything right. She corrects, but not meanly, and also makes a point of telling me what I did right. She doesn't sugar-coat, she doesn't tell me to get it right; she knows my limits but knows when to push me.
> I think if I had an instructor who yelled, screamed, swore, or put me down, I wouldn't learn anything and dread going to the barn. And I wouldn't put up with it - why pay someone to insult you? Mother in laws will do it for free.


I agree with you entirely!

I am helping a woman at the moment who has a young horse that I helped her to back. He was fine with all traffic and has since become bad with heavy vehicles (it is practically impossible to ride anywhere in the UK without going on the roads) 
I said I would help her and decided that the best place to go was down to a nearby farm where there was plenty of room and heavy vehicles and tractors.
The poor woman was almost sick with the idea of riding him around there. She was begging and pleading for me to ride the horse but I refused. What good would that do? he would have been fine with me but no better with her.
I led her around and then she rode on her own. We started a tractor and I led her around it, stopping and leaning against the wheel just chatting.
A friend had driven our ATV down and when we were finished instead of taking the short way back I made her ride alongside the ATV and went for a good long trot.
I was so pleased with her because she was so frightened of what might happen, I was tough on her but not unfair, nor did I put her down. When she said "I can't do this." I told her she was going to have to and that I had every faith she could.
Next day we went for a ride together, me riding a good horse that is traffic proof. When a heavy wagon was coming along the road - it slowed right down, she was so tensed the horse started to react in the same way. I then gave her a hard poke with my finger which made her jump and ask what it was for - that was enough to distract her from the lorry and immediately the horse relaxed and just walked past on the inside of my horse.

It has now gone from not wanting to ride out of the arena to wanting to get out and about. We have been out most days and met several big vehicles and she is not reacting to them so the horse isn't either. 
Tere is still some way to go, she is not confident in not being led from my horse but, that will soon disappear. 
Had I yelled and screamed at her it would have all gone bottoms up. She needed firm handling and her confidence building. She had already undermined her own confidence and didn't need it confirmed.


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## HorseMom1025

We have been fortunate enough to find a trainer for my daughter (age 10) who is right in-between. She's tough but fair. She doesn't yell, but she will get on my daughter when necessary. Kitten (my daughter) would not do well with a screamer, she would shut down completely. She would not be a good rider with too soft of a coach either. She NEEDS a little tough love during her lesson. We've been with this trainer for just over two years and are very, very pleased with how far she's brought my daughter and her horse.

I would NOT keep my daughter with a trainer who screamed and hurled insults at her students. It's NOT ok.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TurkishVan

I guess I could understand some "tough love" at the higher dressage levels, but rudeness still isn't constructive. One poster (forgive me, I just forgot your profile name!) made a good point- when teaching beginning riders, or inexperienced/older riders, the point is to make riding "fun." Yelling and screaming doesn't make it any fun! 

For instance, my little cousin saw her grandmother (stupidly) hop on to a green broke horse, that she had no permission to ride, and get injured. It was horrific. Her grandma was on an uncontrollable horse, who bucked, galloped against the arena fence, bashed her leg into the side of the arena (breaking it terribly), and knocked her unconscious. My cousin's mother, understandably, never, ever wanted her children to ride horses after that. My little cousin agreed. But with the help of a local trainer, who was patient and had very well-trained lesson horses, she now loves riding horses. It helped her regain confidence in horses after that incident. 
If that trainer had a problem with the rider, she calmly explained why/why not the rider should/shouldn't do something. Without that calm demeanor, my little cousin would not have enjoyed riding, and would have given up on horses altogether. 

I also used to belong to a horse club at my university, and we took lessons with that same (western) trainer. At one of the first lessons, one of the girls mounted the horse, then raised her feet about a foot from the side of the horse, and gave him a sharp, quick kick. The horse was used to small children, so he walked off calmly. I looked at the trainer, she looked at me, and a "Holy crap! That could've been bad!" look was exchanged between us. The trainer took a few seconds to compose herself, then calmly addressed the student and said, "Now 'So-&-So', I'm not trying to be mean here, but if you had been on a different horse, you'd probably find yourself on the ground. Start with small, gentle bumps, then get harder." Then she proceeded to compliment her on her seat, making small adjustments, and etc. The girl didn't feel incompetent, and came back for every lesson after that. 
I thought the trainer handled that situation well, even though it could have been a train wreck, especially with 4 other horses in the arena!


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## Corporal

Pushing is not the same as yelling, belittling, or degrading. For a coach to say, "Do it again," pushes a student past their comfort threshhold, and is a positive thing.
On the other hand, many coaches coach people who aren't very motivated and don't really want to go that far.
Then, there are people who shouldn't, IMHO be coaching anybody. I was taken aback watching a program with Laura Kraut--GREAT _rider_--push students on green horses to force them up a dais and over jumps they were afraid of. I would pull the horses and suggest those horses needed more training. ONE BAD FALL and you're broken or crippled. Riding out a buck should be for the rodeo, not the Hunter Ring.
Heck, there are people _here_ who think teachers shouldn't ask students to ride bareback. much less learn to mount a horse without a mounting block. What are ya gonna do if you dismount, fall or get thrown miles away--walk all the way back?!? _(Although, if my horse throws me I'd spend the time figuring out how to sell or rehome him on my way back.)_
COMMUNICATION is the key.
Please do NOT let your children be taught by someone who behaves badly with their comments. They will be discouraged. You must be highly motivated to push through obstacles. My motivated youngest DD is in Law School, and she fights her own battles there--I just give her moral support.


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## TurkishVan

Corporal said:


> Pushing is not the same as yelling, belittling, or degrading. For a coach to say, "Do it again," pushes a student past their comfort threshhold, and is a positive thing.


I definitely agree! Pushing you is not the same as yelling or belittling someone. But I have seen instructors here who "push" people by yelling and screaming at them. Personally, I am a very motivated rider. I do not pay $40/hr to "ride a pony" and that's it. I want correct instruction, and I want lots of it.  Yelling at someone like me is not going to get you anywhere, since I'm already motivated. Just like you should start out soft, and increase in pressure on a horse, you should start out soft with humans and increase the pressure. 

I've seen lots of little kids taking lessons that look like they aren't exactly thrilled to be there. Their parents or someone else has taken them, and is making them do it. Why not make it a relaxing, fun experience so that they'll come back, rather than yell at them for wasting your time? After all, as a riding instructor, you're pretty dependent on lessons for income! Wouldn't it make more sense to for those children to WANT to come back? You drive off business otherwise!


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## Almond Joy

I could never tolerate the yelling or screaming during lessons. I can sometimes have anxiety and completely crumble under bad stress. 

My trainer doesn't ever raise her voice and if she does it isn't much. She has other ways of getting her opinion to me... Like when I said I needed a little break she said oh, well then I guess I will take a little break too. Or if I break half seat she just says, matter of factly, that I need to go for two more dressage letters. 

This is the main reason why I could never train with the other instructor at the barn. She yells and that would just tear down my confidence. My riding would be terrible, I would never be able to focus!


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## Tigo

I've been yelled at to the point of being in tears, had things thrown at me, been told how awful 'x' movement was and to do it again...and again...etc. Not by my day to day coach (although she won't hesitate to tell me that that sucked and to do it again) but by clinicians (who have gone to the Olympics, ridden on the Canadian dressage team and such...). The clinicians that I ride with push me to and past my breaking point because they know how big my goals and what me and my horse are capable of doing. I would never put up with being belittled by someone but if an Olympic rider wants to tell me how awful such and such a movement was and to do it better, you better believe I appreciate it. I don't spend hundreds of dollars over a weekend to have sunshine and rainbows blown up my skirt! And, as a 4th level rider who is looking to make my advanced/FEI debut in the next couple years I don't appreciate rainbows and sunshine from a coach. 

I guess everyone has their own preferences in coaches. Mine is someone who will do whatever it takes to get the best out of me and my horse...if that requires yelling and throwing things at me, well then I guess that's the way it's going to be. You better bet I'll ride my rear off if I'm getting things tossed at me because my extended trot wasn't extended enough (yes, this happened!). My current regular coach knows how to push my buttons to get me to ride my hardest. She rarely raises her voice but when she does I know that I'm really not trying hard enough to ride something correctly. 

Each coach should be able to adapt to her riders. Not everyone can handle being yelled at and told that they should try harder, some can. My coach teaches people at a variety of ages from 11 through 40's, she changes her teaching technique between the 11 year old, to me, to the 40-something pleasure rider. She can't teach an 11 year old the same way she teaches me...the poor child would have a breakdown! 

BUT: A coach who yells and insults because she doesn't have the tact to explain the concepts properly has no place coaching, imo. There's never a reason to degrade, belittle and insult someone. Ever.


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## averylilly

I took lesson from a dressage trainer last year and omg that lady without fail make me cry at lest once a week. I am super senstive to being yelled at so i would ball when she would scarm,yell,call me names and curse.I could not handle being there so i left a few months in to it. She was by far the worst trainer i have ever been with and i have barn hopped alot in the past.She had shot me down so many time that i became very self conscious about my riding.She taught me nothing but to not put my heels down.The trainer i am with now i LOVE he is amazing. I kinda wish he would yell some times so i could hear him better.=) He corrects and pushes me when i need it but also tells me when i get something right.He has his way of getting you to do what he wants with out being crule and makes lesson really fun.

I agree with Tigo if thats what it take and you can handle good but i can't lol i am so senstive


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## LisaG

I've never had a riding clinician yell insults at me, as a child or adult. I'm sure we've all had a teacher or boss or someone else in our lives who was a bully, though. Very unpleasant people! I generally clash with them right off the bat, now, unless I need to lay low for some particular reason. I certainly wouldn't tolerate it in a riding instructor.

I have an education degree, and used to teach, and I can tell you that yelling insults at a confused student is NOT an acceptable teaching method. I think it reflects more on that person's lack of self control or desire to control others than anything the student is doing.

People can give students pointers and critique their riding without being jerks.


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## Jennakaaate

I'm the kind of person who couldn't take yelling very much. When I played softball during grade school, my coach would get in my face and scream at me if I did something wrong. I quit the team after that, and then I joined gymnastics. My gymnastics coach was excellent. She never screamed, yelled, or got angry with me. She was patient and helped me with whatever I needed. I progressed quickly in her class, and ended up competing and winning. When I started riding horses, my first trainers were very tough on me, and I got criticized and ridiculed for everything. Once I switched to a more calm and patient trainer, I progressed quickly once again. It boosted my confidence, and I became a better rider because of it.


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## EquineBovine

I learnt to ride on my glue factory pony by been chasing around with a whip, screamed at, insulted and reduced to tears. But the instructor was my mother so I was used to it :wink: The worst bit was when she calmed down and said, I'm not angry, I'm just dissapointed. :shock: 

In all honestly I'd probably break down if a grown man/woman who apparently knew more than me were to yell and critize without been constructive. I don't see the point in it. If you can't make your point seen by calmly explaining it, what makes you think it will go any better by screaming it?! :shock:


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## clippityclop

EquineBovine said:


> I learnt to ride on my glue factory pony by been chasing around with a whip, screamed at, insulted and reduced to tears. But the instructor was my mother so I was used to it :wink: The worst bit was when she calmed down and said, I'm not angry, I'm just dissapointed. :shock:
> 
> In all honestly I'd probably break down if a grown man/woman who apparently knew more than me were to yell and critize without been constructive. I don't see the point in it. If you can't make your point seen by calmly explaining it, what makes you think it will go any better by screaming it?! :shock:


I actually just thought I heard my own daughter talking to me here. Here's the mom perspective of that - I'm GUILTY of turning into a maniac (minus the whip chasing, of course) with my own kids and their riding instruction - I give beginner horsemanship lessons to adults and children of all ages and confidence levels and have a cool - clean and friendly attitude. When it is my oldest daughter riding, I turn into a maniac. And you are right - just mainly disappointed in the end, not really mad. I talk to a group of girlfriends one night and they assured me I wasn't insane - they all have been there - that's why they send their children to a different instructor.

I think it is because we have such huge expectations and hopes for our children that we can't help but get OCD about making sure they are PERFECT, way better than anyone else, and we want them to enjoy as much as we do - just being a mom here. So, I don't teach my own children anymore once they establish their own independent seat (and mind)....I can't do it without being too pushy and tough. So my oldest got sent to an instructor where she blossomed and as a result, kept our mom/teenager relationship intact. :wink:

Good thing to bring up - it is good for other moms to realize this as well. It is quite common for the parents to be extra hard on their own children versus their paying clients.


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## EquineBovine

My mother had such hope for me hehe she is what I would call a 'enthusiastic' rider whereas I like to plod along, hello tree hello flower, all nice and chilled. So I did get to go to a riding school which was a huge shock because no one yelled at me! Hehe 
Although I must thank my mum really. She taught me to hang on a rearing, bucking, spazzing out horse for dear life. If I fell off I got right back on because at the end of the day my mother was more scary than my devil pony hehe
Thanks mum, for giving me a Velcro butt and an intense fear of whips...


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## gypsygirl

it really helps me when a trainer yells at me for some reason... haha

both my trainers will yell at me. at my last event my trainer said i was making my mare go like a shetland pony 2 minutes before we rode dressage. we ended up winning with a score of 23.8 =D


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## Corporal

EquineBovine said:


> I learnt to ride on my glue factory pony by been chasing around with a whip, screamed at, insulted and reduced to tears. But the instructor was my mother so I was used to it :wink: The worst bit was when she calmed down and said, I'm not angry, I'm just dissapointed. :shock:
> 
> In all honestly I'd probably break down if a grown man/woman who apparently knew more than me were to yell and critize without been constructive. I don't see the point in it. If you can't make your point seen by calmly explaining it, what makes you think it will go any better by screaming it?! :shock:


From a former public MS teacher, and a former piano/voice teacher, my piano studio instructor suggested finding someone to teach your own children. She said (wisely), you won't have the patience, and you won't always schedule and find the time to work for your own kids.


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## Canterklutz

I don't tolerate screaming and yelling very well. Even if it isn't directed at me. 

Insults, however, always tend to make me laugh. :lol: I've been nicknamed Sarcastica and I can't tell you the number of times I've been told "You think this is funny?!" I used to be a sensitive child growing up but I've had so many hair-trigger temper instructors (both in school and other hobbies) I just learned to cope with humor. 

I had a riding instructor call me a lazy fatass in a lesson once. She was overweight herself. I didn't say anything to her. I looked her up in down in a conspicuous way and then raised a single eyebrow. That shut her up immediately. :lol:


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## LostDragonflyWings

Technically, over the 9 yrs I have been riding, I have had 7 different trainers. One of those trainers was a yeller (loud annoying voice) and while she had MANY other negative qualities, she wasn't a name-caller, insulter, or extremely "rough" when giving lessons. She would threaten to take your stirrups away (and did) and threaten to chase the horse with a whip if you didn't get them moving... but never did.

I agree with those that stated that trainers do not need to yell or insult, especially if you are paying them (BUT I know different people have different tastes in trainers). Out of all 7, my currrent trainer has been the best (obviously, as he is still my trainer). No yelling, no insults, no threats, etc. Interestingly enough, no huge signs of frusteration either. I have only noticed frusteration once, but just by observing, not by him saying anything.

On the flip side, I can NOT stand a trainer that babies the rider. I took one lesson from a trainer like that and was irritated and annoyed the entire ride. I would rather have a stern trainer than somebody who talks to you like you are a little kid.

I am, however, the type of rider that enjoys riding and enjoys learning and accomplishing things, so I take my lessons seriously.


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## Jolly Badger

If you want a trainer to pat you on the head and give you a cookie every time you do something you're supposed to do anything. . .and you want to pay them for that. . .go right ahead.

If you want a trainer that will never, ever push you to ride beyond your comfort zone or encourage you to try something new, go right ahead.

If you can't stand being told that you're doing something wrong, or that you need to try harder, or that you're NOT ready to move on to more advanced things until you've gotten a better grasp of the foundations and basics. . .and you want a trainer to teach "fun" classes all the time where you always end up feeling yippy-skippy about riding. . .that's your money.

I have had both kinds of trainers. I've had lessons where I left feeling totally discouraged because I just couldn't "get" it that day. I've had trainers who saw something I was doing wrong and I felt they were really "nitpicking" me. . .until I saw a video of myself riding and realized they were right.

We all have good and bad days, just as our horses do. Personally, I liked having a trainer who would nitpick my faults. . .because when I did get a compliment from them it meant so much more than if it was coming from a fluffy feel-good instructor.


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## AlexS

I absolutely do not mind being yelled at or insulted at all. If I deserve an insult than give me one. I'd much rather be told exactly what I am doing wrong than have some pansy who is worried about my feelings keep on letting me make an error.


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## Army wife

I give basic kids lessons. Most of my lesson girls are awesome. I have plenty of patience for them and have learned to explain things in different ways so that they understand. But I am very to the point, not harsh, just always try to keep their head in the game. I get really excited when they "get it" and try to encourage them to always try harder. One student though....oh man. She is a sweet girl, and could literally sit in the pasture brushing one horse for hours and hours on end. But, I am very snappy with her. Almost rude and yelling. The problem is, she has such bad ADD/ADHD that if I don't keep her focused at all times, I'm afraid she's gonna go off into lala land and get hurt!! It's bad, like real bad. I feel like such a B***H every time I give her a lesson. 1 hour lesson, and usually by the time she's done grooming, saddling and lunging, she has about 5 minutes to ride. And that's WITH me barking "Hurry up!" every 2 minutes. Like I said, sweet girl, really loves horse...but can't stay on task for longer then 30 seconds.


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## Saddlebag

Humiliation of the student should never be the instructor's goal. When a student is having difficulty perhaps it's because it wasn't explained in a way the student understands. Lack of introspect is a failure on the coach's part. I have taught a deaf, a fetal alcohol syndrome, one who could learn only one thing at a time and one ADHD. The only one I had advance notice of was the deaf gal. The others challenged my teaching skills and it wasn't for many months that I was told of their challenges.


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## SamBadger

My riding instructor can be harsh, when things are going bad she will shout. But she's a really good teacher, she's the BO and only teaches the advanced lessons which in general are to teenagers and adults not children, I don't think she'd be great teaching kids, she might rip her hair out. The children are taught by the other two instructors who are lovely to them, call them nice names, joke with them etc. But even them instructors can be harsh to us older ones. One of them wasn't happy with my rising trot and stood there slapping (not too hard!) my legs on about muscle and stuff and she's smacked me with the whip before haha (this is all quite jokey though), I'm quite close with her so it doesn't bother me, and when we have a disagreement about something, i can joke with her and stuff. But I have seen her almost tearing her hair out and shrieking when she's mad, it doesn't bother me though, i prefer having a tough instructor, who will yell and tell it to you straight. However i have lessons with my younger sister (12 years old) and i know she doesn't like being yelled at and when the instructors have gotten mad she doesn't like it, she's more sensitive though, I'm not bothered. 

I think it depends on the student, if you don't mind being shouted at, fine. But i don't think shouty instructors should be like that with young kids because it might scare them and make riding less fun.


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## olympustraining

There are very few moments when you need to yell and scream at your students in my opinion. Trainers need to remember that they are coaches to their riding students. Encouragement and positive reinforcement go a long way, and there is nothing wrong with telling a student they are doing something wrong and quickly correct them to do the right thing. But there really aren't moments when you need to curse/scream/etc.

"Yelling" might have to happen to have a trainers voice reach across the ring, especially in a dire situation... but in my opinion, that is completely different.


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## KountryPrincess

AlexS said:


> I absolutely do not mind being yelled at or insulted at all. If I deserve an insult than give me one. I'd much rather be told exactly what I am doing wrong than have some pansy who is worried about my feelings keep on letting me make an error.


Being a riding instructor is like any other job. It is about customer service. There may be some people like you, who do not mind being yelled at, but many people *do* mind and will avoid those trainers. Business lost.

If I screamed at my patients how stupid they are for not taking their medications right, not following docs orders, and gererally doing the sometimes downright dangerous things they do, I would get fired, and my patients would not learn a thing. How would you feel as a patient if a doctor or nurse came into your room or home and started screaming insults at you regarding all the medical knowledge that you lack? It could be done, trust me....the average patient knows diddly about medications and disease process. But that would obviously be terribly wrong, right? Terrible customer service.

Most people cannot learn when they are frightened....some can, most cannot.. I have a wonderful trainer. What makes a truly great trainer/instructor is one that gets along with the horses as well as the student, and my trainer does this. 

Everyone deserves to be treated with decency and respect. I don't care how hot shot of a trainer or fancy clinician you think you are. You are a person just like me, and we both deserve respect and good manners. If you feel the need to yell insults or have a sharp tone to get your point across, I will take my money elsewhere. That s*** does not fly with me.


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## plomme

My trainers says things like "don't just sit up there" "work!" "ride!" "i know you can ride, act like it!" but those are just motivational, not insulting. I wouldn't put up with someone who was mean-spirited and it certainly wouldn't help my riding. I did go to one such instructor once and she made me so angry I wanted to leave within the first 10 minutes but I was too polite to do it. In retrospect I should have - there is no reason to treat someone like that. Of course I never returned after that. If you cannot teach someone without insulting them then perhaps teaching is not for you.


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## michibichi

I think it's all in what people can handle and what people want. Some people taking lessons like the "screaming" "fix-it now" attitude, it pushes them to be better. Some people prefer to be pleasantly taught. Insults I think are counter-productive no matter what teaching style you have and what teaching style you want. Just because you showed a certain level, doesn't mean you should teach it.


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## Nocturva

When I was 10 I had a horrible trainer that made me quit taking lessons and never look back for a 14 year hiatus...

She used to scream and humiliate me and make me cry, I was 10 years old for christ's sake! The last lesson I had with her is when she put me on a horse having a fit, it crow jumped with me on it and even though she knew I was scared she kept telling me he was fine, until he started bucking I cried to get off and never came back.. And that was sad for me because if I had a different trainer maybe things would have been much different..

So now that I am 24 and back in the saddle with my own horse, my trainer is also my friend at the place I board with and she is amazing!! she is always so patient with me even when I am frustrated, she has never lost her temper or anything! Sometimes though when she is trying to tell me something and I don't answer back she'll like cup her hands over her mouth and be like "Hello! LISTEN" lol but that's it, we'll both laugh when I do stupid things but in all seriousness she's the best trainer I've had.


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## cowgirllinda1952

I would be totally humiliated if anyone talked that way to me in public, and though this may seem far fetched, I think some of that BS, especially directed at the kids, ought to be recorded and reported to CPS. There are laws against verbal and emotional abuse.


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## Kotori

I've only had lessons with two trainers. Both are very type A personalities. Both are borderline yelling just to get their voice to carry (And my ears don't work as well as they should), but the only issues I have are when they expect me to know something they've never shown me. Once, one told me to change rein, so I went and changed rein on a small circle, and she yelled at me that she meant down the diagonal. She said it in such a way that it made me feel stupid, and I never spoke another word for the lesson. I have anxiety issues and asthma, and as the lesson went on, it only got worse. I was being criticized every stride, and I tried to fix it but she never told me if I was doing it right, so I would try different things until she yelled at me- the only indicator I had. Eventually I had enough after riding a lap or two around the arena, unable to see through my tears and unable to breath. She was still criticizing me and wanting me to pick up a canter- something that freaks me out even on the best of days. 

I don't mind being yelled at and criticized, but you need to tell me if I'm doing it right. My favorite instructer is one of my music director- she believes in giving at least one compliment for every 5 criticisms.


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## Nokotaheaven

When I was 9 I took lessons with a Cowboy type of guy. In the lessons he would yell and swear 24/7. I didn't pay any mind to it. But I was also just a kid.
Here's what i remember though:
He gave lessons to only little kids around my age, most women even though "Women shouldn't ride".
The once I remember him yelling at me about my toes saying "John Wayne didn't ride with his toes out!"
He would use his son's horse, who was a moody mare, in lessons. I believe he mood worsened when they got her in foal. For the first few months they still used her. The once a girl my age was in the center of the arena sitting on her, and a gelding passed by on the rail behind her, so she kicked out with both hind feet, scaring the rider so bad she cried.
We also bought a 18yr old horse off of him, and when we left the property had to leave it behind.
The one other thing I recall is while riding, seeing a horse that we had sold to him running around loose on the property.
Things I learned after we left: He uses the old cowboy method of breaking horses, one being tying it up and making it fall over, then hitting it till it got back on it's feet, and repeating this step.
And the gelding we bought, apparently wasn't allowed to leave the property because he was a lesson horse. My parents were only told so AFTER they bought him. I also met a girl a couple years later who went there just after we left... That gelding was used so often that I don't think he ever got a day off, and he was used for everything. He died the following year after we left, at age 19.
Needless to say I do not have anything more to do with the guy


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## MaximasMommy

My instructor can be kind of abrasive at times, but she is actually a very sweet and caring person. I take it as she cares enough about my success to invest her entire self in it. If she sees me do something wrong, she is going to get on my case about it and make me explain myself and do it right, even if that means yelling and "WHAT ARE YOU DOING; I TOLD YOU FIVE TIMES; YOU NEED TO WAKE UP". I'm paying her to make me better, not make me feel like I'm already good


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## Bagheera

All of my instructors have been forced to yell at me or swear at me. 99% of the time, they are very respectful. I am the type of person who holds myself to a very high standard. When I make a stupid mistake, I tend to shut down to the point of being on auto pilot. The only way to snap me out of it seems to be to berate the living crap out of me until I come out of the recesses of my brooding mind. I can tolerate someone who berates me constantly through out a lesson, but they had better be an amazing instructor, otherwise I tire of it fairly quickly. I also have zero tolerance for someone who sugarcoats every thing or ignores my mistakes. I don't want to be told that the mistake I made is ok and not to worry about it. I want to be told that I messed up and I need to fix it. And most importantly, I want someone who can snap me out of it when I mentally shut down. To each their own I guess.


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## Ripplewind

My trainer gets professionally frustrated with me at times. He has yelled a few times, but if that is what it takes to get his point across this thick skull of mine, so be it. I deserve it.


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## Fort fireman

The sign of a good teacher is being able to adjust their teaching style to what the particular student needs. Some people respond better to an outside stressor than others. Some get lazy without the pressure on them. Some just shut down and close themselves off and then learn nothing at all. Now in a safety thing all bets are off IMHO!!

I am not a riding instructor but I teach firefighting classes a good bit. I've had students from 18-50, paid to volunteer and every class I've had to adjust. Not everyone learns the same way. Some guys I have had to get right up in there face and grab them by the air pack straps and drag them away for a butt chewing and others It's just a simple" Hey man, i need you to fix this". Now granted the one time i grabbed someone by the air pack straps he did something extremely stupid and nearly burned up myself another instructor and a couple students. That is one of those safety things that all bets are off. Yes there can be those dangerous times in horse back riding lessons as well. Also in my experience its ussually the younger ones that need a little more shall I say heart to hearts.:lol: You know, been on 6 months and know it all, just ask them and they'll tell ya.


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## loosie

To those like me, who don't like being yelled at, don't forget who's employing who. You can choose not to have lessons with that kind of id...instructor (& I'd tell them why) or you can request that they treat you with a little respect and remain in control of their emotions... or you can choose to 'suck it up'. But they'd have to be a pretty darn great instructor for me to pay them money to abuse me... if for no other reason than it would just distract me & get my hackles up... drove out of the arena Copper?? I think I'd be 'driving' her at a screaming gallop!


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## Allison Finch

I would no more yell insults at a student than I would beat a horse for being ignorant. Humiliation has no place in a learning environment. I just persist in making a person try until they achieve even the smallest improvement. Then I tell them they were becoming better. Positive is way better than negative, whether working with a horse or a student. Both will learn better if they are not terrified of making any mistakes. The panic that might come from knowing you will be "punished" for doing poorly will make it very difficult for the student OR horse to want to even try.


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## Zexious

I don't recall if I've already posted on this thread, but I'll throw in my two cents regardless.

In fourteen years I have had all sorts of trainers. My first one was definitely intimidating, and not afraid to yell. I'm the type to respect authority, no matter what their 'teaching methods' are. 

If it makes you truly uncomfortable, I would change instructors. Horseback riding is supposed to be fun, and I'd guess you're paying quite a bit of money for this service.


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## MudPaint

Pushing a rider and screaming till you're hoarse are two different things. Over 20 years I've ridden under all sorts of trainers, those that need soap taken to their mouth and some that could use a backbone. I love a coach who pushes, that's what I'm paying for. However, I will NOT tolerate any form of verbal abuse. 

I had a coach scream at me in a semi-private lesson on a friend's horse. I was yelled stupid in tack-up because of my saddle choice, dirtiness of the pad, and my obvious lack of care for the horse. Now I'm not a beginner rider, but I'm far from perfect. The horse had some canter transition issues...apparently this was all my fault. I was informed that my butt was big and in the way, that if I ever wanted to be serious about riding I'd go puke right now.... There was a lot of cursing in there and some other not so nice comments. When he tried to schedule me for another lesson I said it was a waste of time as the size of my butt had no correlation to my inability to throw up and I didn't need lessons from him on that subject either. 

On the flip side I had taken one lesson with a lady who just praised or watched the entire lesson. I kept asking her if there was anything that needed to be improved or how to change things... waste of 50$.

Yelling to be loud or gain attention is one thing. To mentally break someone down is not acceptable, you're an adult, act like one. If you can't communicate, go be a drill sergeant.


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## Sirius

I am going to give a different opinion and my own little experience. I wanted to be a swimming instructor. It's a great part time job, close by and has flexible hours. I've always been an avid swimmer and particularly because the recreation centre was down the street, I thought it would be a great idea to try. I enrolled and was put in a class with four other people. All through out the course, there were slivers of criticism targeted at me regarding my age. I guess what I'm trying to say is that yelling and screaming are not the only forms of belittling. I truly thought I imagined it and needed to toughen up! I swam just as well if not better than some of the participants but I let the instructor "get" to me. What is worse, I inadvertently gave permission for the others in the group to belittle me too. Not surprisingly, everyone passed the course but not me. I didn't go back in the pool for about two years and am angry at myself for tolerating it and don't understand why I did. This position would have been ideal for me and would have helped me support my riding. Trust your gut on this. Life is hard enough and there will be enough people trying to put limitations on you. A person has to also protect his/her possibilities. Later on, two teachers were in the viewing area watching this same instructor "tear" into a little girl about her bathing suit. They were having none of it. They contacted the head aquatics supervisor and interrupted the swimming lesson. To this day, I don't understand why I didn't recognize that it was wrong and didn't stand up for myself. There must be discipline in riding but there is also your self-respect.


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## thetempest89

Sorry, at the end of the day being a coach and trainer is a business. I don't pay people to yell at me. There is no excuse for yelling. My coach is great, she pushes me, she encourages me, she NEVER yells at me. Then again I pay $70 dollars for a 45 minute lesson, if someone yelled at me I would tell them off.

Horses are my get away, my therapy. My work is stress enough. I have to worry about running a store, babysitting staff, deal with theft daily,and worry about robberies or potential one. Horses are my get away, and yes I work hard in a lesson, I may not be some great dressage rider but I work hard. I don't need the stress of someone who is unprofessional.


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## Captain Evil

Kotori said:


> I've only had lessons with two trainers. ...the only issues I have are when they expect me to know something they've never shown me. Once, one told me to change rein, so I went and changed rein on a small circle, and she yelled at me that she meant down the diagonal. She said it in such a way that it made me feel stupid, and I never spoke another word for the lesson. I have anxiety issues... and as the lesson went on, it only got worse. I was being criticized every stride, and I tried to fix it but she never told me if I was doing it right, so I would try different things until she yelled at me- the only indicator I had. Eventually I had enough after riding a lap or two around the arena, unable to see through my tears and unable to breath. She was still criticizing me and wanting me to pick up a canter- something that freaks me out even on the best of days.
> 
> I don't mind being yelled at and criticized, but you need to tell me if I'm doing it right.


Imagine a horse saying this...


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## Foxhunter

I am tough. I was brought up in a tough way and taught by tough teachers. You were yelled at, laughed at and made to get back on when you fell. (I once had a jumping 
lesson and finished it before saying my arm hurt and it was broken! I had to walk to the very local Cottage Hospital to have it set and then walked back to the stables and finished the day there.) 
However it was very rare to feel down after a lesson. We all came away having learnt something and gloated on the little praise we received. It doesn't work that way nowadays.

I have been to many instructors of various calibre's. One of the meanest was an Internationally renowned event trainer. He was downright rude to almost all the riders and played to the people watching. I was on a weeks course and was not going to leave, as many did, but get my money's worth whether he liked it or not. 
One rider had won Badminton the previous year and really this course was a way for her to get her training for free. 
At one point one of the other riders, a nervy woman, went to leave the arena in tears. Her horse would not go over a simple grid. The instructor would not let her take her horse but made the event rider get on it. The horse still refused. I, standing in line watching, said to the girl next to me that I knew what he was getting at.
He saw me talking and told me that of I thought I could do better to get on the horse. I did. The stirrups were way to small for me so I crossed them and took the horse to the grid. The moment he started to back away from it I drew three cracks with my whip behind the legs, left, right, left without changing hands, all in less than two seconds. The horse shot forward, cantered over the four trot poles and over the grid in a hurried manner, knocking down a couple of poles.
The instructor yelled and screamed and swore. I had halted and when he had to draw breath I said, in a voice loud enough for all to hear, "I was taught that a horse either went over or through a fence when you meant it to. Now, it might not have been elegant but, he odd go through the lot. Now let me show you what I think is the way you want it to be done."
His face was a picture and before he could gather his wits, I rode the horse around the arena, presented it at the grid, trot four poles, bounce, bounce fence bounce fence. 
Horse went through it perfectly, really used itself over the last fence and, having enjoyed it even put in a whoopee buck on landing. 

At the end of the week he told me I had made the most improvement and I looked him square in the eye and told him that had he once offered encouragement or praise then that improvement would have been far greater.

More than once I was offered the chance to go on courses with him but always refused because he was so downright rude. Darn good but rude.


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## Zexious

I agree that one thing instructors and clients must both remember is that it is a BUSINESS. You are paying for a service. If you are not pleased with the service you are receiving, take your business and your money elsewhere. There is certainly another trainer that will be more suited to their liking and desires.


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## cowgirllinda1952

Not sure how he treated his students, but I was in several playdays, where the "trainer" screamed, cussed at, and belittled his 2 teenage daughters, while they ran the barrels. I know he gave lessons to other kids. He was so verbally abusive that I don't see how the girls were able to perform at all, listening to all of that.


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## kitten_Val

I think it depends on how you look at it. My dressage trainer was AWESOME: supportive, encouraging, very talented as a teacher (we were green horse - green rider combination). Yet when she was recommended to me I was told that she's tough and doesn't sugar-coat, so I have to be "ready". However IMHO she was one of the _nicest _instructors I worked with.


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## eeo11horse

I would not stay with them. There is no way I could learn anything in that type of environment. I think about my trainer and how calm and patient he is and I could never imagine him yelling at me- even if I was doing something wrong.


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## aureliusandoinky

I don't think I could handle an instructor that yelled or cussed me out. My instructor is really patient and only yells when she gets super annoyed with someone because they won't listen. She WILL tell you when you're doing something wrong, but it's straight forward and isn't meant to be mean, just constructive. That's what I like. Don't yell at me, just tell me what I'm doing wrong.


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## Nell J

I think it depends on the person. I am sensitive and can shut down. Shutting down is also a flaw I want to fix but it is slow going. I try to adapt. I try to understand the trainer and find ways to cope. 

Our local guy is tough but it is because he wants you to succeed and notices everything. He does not miss A BEAT never seen the like. Luckily when I am ready to bawl he doesn't notice. I find comfort in seeing the expression on his wife's face and the "oh dear look" but she says nothing. I try to buck up then untack my horse and cry all the way home. Then I learned so much because he notices everything that I go back for more and joke about bawling to friends... 

THIS is worth it because though he has been rude he has not sworn at me. A friend of mine they get into swearing matches. This I find unproffesional since the swearing is meant to cut. 

Also the trainer is bipolar and very good at his job... if he is in a bad mood recognize and ignore. I am not saying this is right it is a business but for personal growth on not being sensitive and growth on my horse... I will go back.


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## Chasin Ponies

Like Tessa, most (but not all) of my students are children and I certainly don't treat them the instructors you describe. I will raise my voice when I see a potential incident starting to happen and the kid needs to correct it immediately but I don't really understand why anyone would pay to be abused. When you take the fun out of horses, what's the point?!


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## PrivatePilot

Ashsunnyeventer said:


> I could handle the yelling because, whether i like to admit it or not, this lady knew what she was talking about, *she just didn't know how to communicate it correctly.*


The art of being able to do that is called *tact*. It's lost on many people.

You can get a point across strongly, or even abruptly, but in a fashion that doesn't belittle, embarrass, or decimate the person on the other end of your words. Unfortunately for many, just yelling whatever drivel rolls off their tongue instead of spending 5 seconds thinking about what they are going to say (and coming up with a better way to say it first) is how they roll.

It makes for a crappy teacher. There's a difference between proactive coaching and getting your point across firmly yet politely, and just yelling profanity across the arena with little intent except to belittle someone into compliance. 

If I were you I'd walk away from the facility in a heartbeat..and depending on how bad it was, email them a link to this thread a few weeks down the road so they can stop and think about their antics.


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## PaintHorseMares

Teaching is a skill in itself, independent of the subject (e.g. riding), and many people that are excellent in their field make terrible teachers.
As to the teaching style, yelling/criticizing/belittling makes some students_ more motivated_ to try harder, but _destroys_ the confidence of others causing them to give up. In my old sports days, coaches would say this is how you separate the "true" athletes from "recreational" ones, but I played with a number of excellent people that just didn't fit that method of coaching.
In my experience, I good teacher can tell which method(s) will work with a specific student/age/motivation/experience level, and uses the one(s) that will help teach, advance, and get the most of the student, which is the goal of the $$s you are paying.


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## my2geldings

That is nuts! I have been lucky so far and not heard anyone at any of the stables I have boarded ever be rude like this, and as a student, I certainly would not put up with it. I think these poor folks need to be given a few phone numbers of other instructors who will treat them with respect. That's definitely not a good learning environment.


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## Ashsunnyeventer

PrivatePilot said:


> There's a difference between proactive coaching and getting your point across firmly yet politely, and just yelling profanity across the arena with little intent except to belittle someone into compliance.
> 
> If I were you I'd walk away from the facility in a heartbeat..and depending on how bad it was, email them a link to this thread a few weeks down the road so they can stop and think about their antics.


It took me about a year and a half to realize that there was no reason to subject myself to her insults. I've been at a new barn for almost 2 years now and my new trainer is tough, but in a helpful, confidence building way. But now I've hit a road block with the new trainer too- she doesn't like my horse- not even that, actually, she just doesn't like thoroughbreds in general. She manages to keep most of her comments to herself, but if we hit a wall (like any horse in training eventually will) sometimes the judgemental comments come out. 

I take the insults about my horse harder than insults about myself lol. I don't think we will be leaving this trainer any time soon, so we just work extra hard to prove that thoroughbreds are just as good, if not better than the horses she breeds 

All of these experiences have been learning opportunities, though. Each barn we board at, I learn one more thing to look for to avoid if we have to move barns again (but hopefully, next time we move it will be to our own farm).


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## redrose1

I think it depends on what kind of person and personality you get along with and can learn from. Me... I took dressage lessons years ago on a mare I had and my teacher yelled at me constantly and I was SO UPTIGHT I couldn't learn. I had the worst headache after each session. 
I also don't do well with someone who won't give it to me straight and won't correct me. So for me, stern but nice does the trick. I have a trainer now who is nice but will tell me, "ok... you need to be firmer, you are out there coddling and he's ignoring you." When I first got with her, she set me up to SHOW me that I had no relationship with my horse. Because I didn't want to do ground work and she said it's IMPORTANT. I just wanted to "ride". She was a smart one. She took my horse into the round pen and worked him, got on him, he did really well with her. She told me, "come get on and move his body around." I did and I got NOTHING!!!! She then said, "now... if it were me, I would NOT want to be on this horse on the trail if I can't even move his body parts around!! Do you see now?" She wasn't mean about it but she had to prove it to me. And it really hit home. I kept complaining that my horse was not listening to me on the trail so he needed to be "trained." LOL!!!!! Oh he was trained - he was training me to listen to HIM. 
I went to a clinic years ago and the trainer screamed at everyone the whole time. He was actually abusive to some guy who was a newbie. The newbie finally said, "I didn't pay all this money to be screamed at and humiliated." The trainer said, "there's the door then - I'm sure you can find it."


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## waresbear

I posted on this thread a while back and gave my thoughts. Anyways, I was discussing this with my instructor. She said it is a matter of respect, the person she is instructing is paying her, if they are not paying attention or not doing what she is telling them, it's their loss, she will not reduce herself to yelling or insulting them, in her experience, it's not effective.


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## upnover

One of the best trainers I've ridden with was a militant cusser! Whew, the mouth on her was crazy and wow was she intense. Her bar was set extremely high and she expected nothing but 100% from me. She scared me to death at first but let me tell you, I learned more from her then I have anyone else. At the same time, she wasn't condescending and she wasn't rude, she was just very very intense and expected a lot. Where I am in my riding though I don't want to be coddled and when I ride with someone I'm not looking for compliments. But it is important to ride with someone you will learn from.


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## ZaneyZanne123

Some ppl are telented and can let things role off thier backs. I am not one of the talented. 

I think belittling, berating or using foul language is not savy nor should it be tolerated. Being pushed (when nessesary), being firm and being direct using tact is better and more productive. You belittle me, use foul language, call me ill names and trash talk me is a good way for me to shut down, get off my horse and quite possibly deck you a good one. There is no need in it and can be VERY counterproductive. Its an Ego trip in my opinion. I NEVER would treat my students who pay me to teach them, not belittle them or make them feel less than (and that includes thier horses) and make them feel stupid or patronized. I dont like it done to me and will not condone it to others and do not practice this myself. Now I tell the truth, if you ask me a question i will answer it and sometimes bluntly. I dont candy coat or babify things and am pretty straight forward. I also expect 100% effort from mstudents and I expect my student to practice outside of lessons. If they dont I let them know. If my student is doing something wrong or is failing to do someting then I let them know promtly but with tact. If I see that a student is doing something repeatedly and is not listening to me I will be more forcefull about it and will have a tet et te' with them. However I will not resort to foul language or belittling practices. I will yell when nessesary esp if the rider is having problem hearing me or enforcing a specific command that needs to be done imediatly. I want to encourage my students to ask me questions, to explore ideas and to feel like they can achieve the goals we are shooting for. However I do not allow them to be to passive, lazy or argumentative and definatly not whiney. If one wants to learn I will teach them, if they do not then I will walk away for I have other things I can be doing with my time.


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