# Sedative for crazy horse while being shod ?



## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Since you don't know this horse:

1. The horse could have pain in the hoof or leg and the pounding of the hammer set it off.

2. The farrier may have quicked the just enough to cause pain but not enough for her to come up noticeably lame.

I have brought home some rear straight up and might go over backward horses when the saw the farrier come at them.

1. It is not the farrier's job to make a horse safe for shoeing or trimming.

2. Many kudos to your farriers for mentioning drug sensitivity. One of my four is so drug-sensitive that half tablet of bute drops him right to the ground. Last time he had a rabies shot, he got it in the butt to help reduce reaction and as it was, it took him an hour before he had his legs back to where he could safely walk out to pasture.

3. If the mare was good the first couple times, something has happened and it the farriers inadvertently did it. Your job is to try and figure out why she reacted and correct her before it's time to trim or shoe again.

Personally, I'd leave her shoes off and just trim her until she gets her confidence back. If you're riding her, put trail boots on her. If she remains great for trimming but not shoeing, there's some pain involved somewhere and I would want a vet to examine her, at that point


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## alorabuote (Nov 15, 2013)

She NEEDS shoes . Being a rescue she is in horrible shape and has terrible feet . When she got her shot when I got her teeth floated she was fine ? Vet either gave her too much or she just reacted funny to it cause she was like out cold lol . Didn't have a "bad reaction" to that though . What about a thing called a "war bridle"? I was told about that by the barn owner as she has a rescue as well and he is quite ... Moody when it comes to the farrier or people touching his feet in general and it works on him
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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

alorabuote said:


> She NEEDS shoes . Being a rescue she is in horrible shape and has terrible feet . When she got her shot when I got her teeth floated she was fine ? Vet either gave her too much or she just reacted funny to it cause she was like out cold lol . Didn't have a "bad reaction" to that though . What about a thing called a "war bridle"? I was told about that by the barn owner as she has a rescue as well and he is quite ... Moody when it comes to the farrier or people touching his feet in general and it works on him
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


With all due respect, no, she does not need shoes. 

I re-habbed a seriously foundered IR horse without using shoes. EasyCare has a few styles of trail riding boots that work very well as Rx boots and the horse can wear them to pasture up to 12 hours daily

Diet is also crucial for poor hooves. There's nothing wrong with feeding a high quality senior feed to a mature horse that's in poor condition. Add some flax to help the hooves along. Tractor Supply sells their own brand of Omega-3 Horse shine, which is about half the price of the real Omega-3 Horse shine.

Boots will protect the hooves - Easy Care's trail boots can stay on up to 12 hours daily.

Regarding the War Bridle? Yes, I am very familiar with them. All I will say is I've been paying for my own for the last 55 years, I've brought home some pretty rank horses to re-school. I have never had to use such devices by the time the second farrier visit was due. There were times I had to resort to drastic measures on the first visit to get the original shoes off the horse but that was also the last time. 

My elderly Arab has stifle issues; he can't pick his left rear leg up. We have to lean him against a stall wall and the trimmer has to rest the Arab's hoof on his boot and trim it that way. Because I have them trim every four weeks and this horse does a good job of keeping his toes wore down, there's not a lot to take off, the trim goes fast, we didn't "block and tackle" the poor horse and the Arab is happy to see them on their next visit

The horse needs worked with, somebody needs to figure out WHY the horse reacts so bad to shoes being nailed on. If it's in that much pain, get the vet out for an evaluation and go from there


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## alorabuote (Nov 15, 2013)

What about when the horse has a split up their hoof ? She had a nasty split in hot front right hoof and now (since she ripped the show off in the ***** fit she decided to throw) has a Nasty split in her back hoof . She has NO hoof wall and very weak feet . She is on a lot of special feed right now for weight gain and I have her on a supplement for her feet which my vet gave me . I am currently on my phone and can't post pictures on here but I will take pictures of her hoofs and post them on here when I am down at the barn late today .
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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

There is another member here who has to have her horse sedated for farrier work. The farrier can't even trim her horse without a melt down.

Her and her farrier set up a long term plan where they sedate the horse every time but each time its a little less sedation until the horse realizes that the a trim isn't such a horrible thing.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Ask your vet for some Dormosedan gel. You can give her a little to take the edge off and just have her trimmed until she's not so reactive. Something happened, whether the farrier did something by accident or she had a PTSD type flashback to something, I couldn't say, but you're going to have to give her her confidence back without anyone getting killed in the process. I would have him do range of motion and hoof testing the next time he's out to find out if there's a pain issue. 

She can do without shoes on the back feet, even with the split. You can use trail boots when you ride and leave her alone otherwise. After some time on a good diet, maybe feed a hoof supplement, she'll get better in her hoof quality.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

If you can afford to have the your farrier come every four weeks, and you don't have anything physically, that would keep you from trimming:

Ask your farrier to give you one of his old rasps and have him/her show you how he wants the hooves rasped in-between his visits.

A couple millimeters every 3 - 4 days (2 -3 if the horse grows hoof really fast) should be enough to discourage the cracks from splitting worse.

It sounds as if the splits are bad enough that you may have to also keep on eye them for white line disease, a/k/a seedy toe.

You could scrub the splits with a brush then spray inside them with Banixx. The price of Banixx has come way down. I just bought a 32 oz bottle at the feed store for one more dollar than a 16 ounce bottle used to cost.

Unless you're area is knee deep in mud, you would only have to spray the cracks on the days you rasp her hooves.

Regarding boots for her: EasyCare stopped making the Boa's, which is what I put on my foundered horse if I think he even looks a tiny bit off. He goes out on 20+ acres of hills for the entire day; the boots come off when he comes in his stall for the night.

I am pretty sure this new "EasyBoot Transition" is what they told me would make the best replacement for the Boas, as an Rx boot.

http://www.easycareinc.com/our_boots/easyboot_transition/easyboot_transition.aspx You would pay for them in a short amount of time vs. having to pay for continual re-sets of metal shoes

They do make an Rx boot but it's for short periods of turnout time and in small areas like an arena.

Plan C with the hooves, until you get her to where she can tolerate a shoe, MIGHT be to wrap her cracked hooves with duct tape but have a sharp razor knife handy. Cutting duct tape off her hooves won't work if she decides to get jiggy:?

If she's foot-sore, you could tape some Styrofoam to her hoof.

No matter the route, it sounds as if the mare might need some time and understanding to work thru this. I still would want to be sure she isn't dealing with some sort of serious pain issue.

Perish the thought, I'd cash my chips in and my 28 yr old Arab went out the driveway against my Will. Most people would think he was being nothing more than a "typical snotty Arab" by not picking up that hind leg with the bad stifle. He can't even lift that leg to my knee and I'm only 5'2":-(

I hope you can get something worked out to where the horse is happy to see your farriers knock on her stall door


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

If you want to sedate then you really need to get a vet on board - Dormosedan gel as already suggested or some oral ACE might be enough to settle her down
I prefer to sedate a difficult horse because they are start to relax and stop seeing the procedure as a scary bad thing - that won't happen if you use a twitch or a gum chain and they soon start to fight having those things on
Farriers can't risk getting injured so you have to be fair to them
If you can find a way to do without shoes then you should try that but I know what its like to have a horse with awful feet that needs them even for in the field while the feet get sorted out - you can't keep boots on them 24/7 and self made padding has to be changed daily 
If her feet are really bad then the shoeing is probably hurting her and if she has to have the shoes giving her some pain medication before the farrier arrives would also help


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Dormosedan gel works really good. Give it about 45 minutes before the farrier comes out and she'll be nice and sedated.

I understand what you mean when you have a horse that allows you to pick of their feet, and some others, but when the farrier comes at them, they can be quite the brat. 

It's possible that this could be a one time instance. Since she's been good on 3 previous visits, maybe she just had a bad day.


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## alorabuote (Nov 15, 2013)

I was just out to see my mare and I was picking up her feet and I took the hoof pick and tapped on her feet . She freaked out . So while holding her foot I tapped on the stump beside me , she still freaked out . She's linking the noise to something obviously . How much does Dormosedan gel usually cost roughy ?
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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

You'll need to ask your vet, it's going to vary from vet to vet.


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## Horse Poor (Aug 20, 2008)

alorabuote said:


> To say my horse is crazy for the farrier would be an understatement . She is a rescue so I have no background in her but the *first time I got her trimmed she was PERFECT* . A little iffy because my farrier is a man and she is iffy with men but other than she was absolutely brilliant . T*he first time getting shoes on was also perfect *. Then the second time I don't even know what happened she just freaked out and went crazy . Got the front shoes on but while doing the back feet she went nuts and ripped the shoe right off . They said they can give her a sedative but then he said "there is a rare chance of a bad reaction.." Why could happen ? Is there a sedative any of you would recommend ? Please don't say that I need to "work with her" because I can pick up her feet and clean them out and everything and she's FINE .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Welllll…IMHO, if she was "perfect" on the first trim, "perfect" for the "first time getting shoes" and now she's a beast, tells me that she knows what to do, but you have allowed bad behavior to develop at some point in time. Personally, I wouldn't sedate her. She won't learn anything if you do. You must have 100% of a horse's attention, (which you won't have if you sedate her)to teach her 100% of a lesson (what is expected of her).


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

If your horse needs sedated.. Have the VET do it. They have the drugs to counter act bad reactions, but there is still always a chance your horse could have anaphalactic shock and die. 
There could be any number of reasons why the horse freaked. 
I would leave her barefoot , if her feet are not cracked and chipped she should be okay. 
If she throws a fit again, find a different farrier..


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## alorabuote (Nov 15, 2013)

Her feet are horribly cracked and chipped , there are splits ect . She did not "learn any bad behaviours" she is perfectly fine and respectful when I pick up/clean her feet . But as soon as she hears that tapping her eyes go all crazy and she freaks out . I would obviously have the vet give her the sedative . I was hoping someone would have a more natural suggestion ?
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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

If she's freaking out that badly, 'natural' suggestions aren't going to be strong enough to get you anywhere.

It's great that you identified that the noise was/is part of her trigger for freaking out though, because that means you can work on it! Does she freak if you tap it on something when you're just standing near her, or only when there is tapping and someone is holding her foot? Either way, you can find your starting point and just desensitize her (yes, easier said than done, I know) to the sound.

I agree with those who said just skipping the shoes all together sounds like a viable option. If it's the tapping that freaks her out, don't do it. Good barefoot trimming every 4 or 5 weeks and boots as needed should be enough. Many (most or maybe all) splits and cracks can be remedied with a good use of the rasp and application of good trimming principles (primarily removing leverage) even in horses where shoes have failed to fix the problem. This will give her time to grow good hoof with the nutrition she's getting now, and time for her to re-learn and be retrained that farriers are friends and she should be polite and cooperative. Then, down the road, you can decide if she needs shoes for riding or whatever her job will be. As she's already proven, putting shoes on feet in too rough a shape and too weak to hold them just results in more and worse problems when they come off and take chunks of the hoof with them.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Try making tapping noises at other times not related to her feet, say, before feeding & anytime you can. If she is reacting to a noise get her used to the noise.

ETA:Sorry Sharpie for repeating what you had already said. I didn't read all the posts


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

The sedative will make things safer for the farrier and that has to be your priority - speak to your vet about what he thinks is best to use
I think you need to work on getting her used to noises around her as your priority - a lot of people have this tendency to over protect horses if they think they're a nervous type - I do the opposite, start off a bit at a time because throwing them in at the deep end is never a good idea - but my barn is a noisy place, I bang stuff around, I have a radio playing, audio books playing, dogs barking - you get what I mean. One horse that was terrified of plastic bags now stands like a rock while I shake shavings out of one right next to her. If my husbands using a chain saw in the field or strimming they all stand around him asking if they can have a go next - usually have to get shut out of where he is because they're a nuisance and likely to lose a leg.
Get her used to the tapping a bit at a time and reward her for accepting it so she sees it as a good thing not a scary one
One last thing - over reaction to noises can be a symptom of Lymes Disease so check on how prevalent it is in your area


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## equaeternal (May 8, 2014)

I agree with the posters who said you can work with her to get her more used to the sound. If she is very crazed while getting shod it might be safer all around to have her sedated, but continue working with her to get her used to the sound.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

It could be the height of farrier is causing this too, if they are tall, they will have different angle from someone shorter, and vice versa.

That makes a world of difference in how they hold legs up too, as well as if they are hurting themselves somewhere, as they will maneuver to accommodate their pain.

Lots of possible mechanical things going on here to consider.

Also agree with poster that wrote it could be your handling mechanics are causing this, don't know how experienced you are with horses, so no way to tell from here.

Have you tried twitching her, either with twine or regular one?


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## canyondweller (Oct 4, 2012)

I have a similar experience with my horse: he is a sweet OTTB (5 YO) and was severely underweight when I acquired him 2 years ago. He was fine with the farrier the first time, but as he gained weight and strength, became more difficult. He is absolutely terrified of farriers. We worked with him slowly and he was getting better, but he had a meltdown 3 weeks ago when he was placed in the cross-ties next to a horse being shod (an oversight). The sound of tools sends him into a panic. The vet recommended Dormosadan and that's what we will do from now on.
He is very sweet and willing to please on all other levels. I can clean his feet in the arena just holding the line, he will stay still, but the sight of a farrier and it is all over. Most likely, he was hurt at some point and either tied down or roughed up to stay still.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Haven't read many replies, but agree with Walkin, that for one, you're best to avoid getting shoes on her yet. It is not a '***** fit' that she 'threw', but a likely reaction to pain/fear. With the help of a *good* horse handler, be that a farrier or other Man With Tools I'd be first working on getting her confident & comfortable again with hoof handling. Of course, this may include other treatment, if her behaviour stems from pain higher up or such. Take it gradually & don't try to force her into situations she's not ready for, with 'war bridle' or otherwise, unless vital - emergency vet treatment or such.

Your worry about her bad hooves is indeed warranted & should be attended ASAP. But cracks & such are very rarely 'emergencies' that can't wait until the horse is better trained/over fears, and you'll be then setting her up to be better in future, rather than likely having to deal with worse behaviour & attitude about it later if you try to battle it out now.

As Walkin explained, there are a wide range of hoof boots available. There are also other methods, of supporting & protecting feet where necessary that don't mean conventional shoes. I personally (generally - there are exceptions) believe hooves are better off unshod, especially if their health/strength is compromised. Cracks for eg are more easily managed & gotten rid of without peripheral loading of walls.


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## aharlov (Apr 2, 2013)

I have a horse with hoof cracks that was terrified of his barefoot trimmer until recently. He is trimmed every 4 weeks to keep on top of the cracks and not let the hoof wall get to the point where it puts pressure on the cracks. If your farrier has a dremel, he/she can dremel out the cracks (depending on how many there are and how deep they go) to clean them out and make sure there are no hairline cracks that are continuing the issues. 

Just like someone else said, rasping often will make sure there is no added pressure.

I am a pretty big advocate of NO shoes... I don't like the idea of them, and the fact that they don't allow a hoof to flex as it should/was made to. But that's just me...


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## beverleyy (Oct 26, 2011)

I occasionally use Dormosedan (sp?) gel with my mare. I don't know a lot of her history before I bought her 3-4 years ago, but I do know that she has had a couple very traumatic farrier experiences. Sometimes she is a dream, others it seems as if she has some form of flashback, and those times we use the gel to sedate and make the experience a more pleasant one for her (and for everyone else!). 

It's not a training issue at all with her, and thankfully I have an incredibly understanding and patient farrier who understands this! =)


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

arhlov, OP has a problem with the horse flipping out with the farrier, so advice on crack treatment may not be necessary. But a farrier doesn't need a dremmel to clean out a crack - & personally I prefer to avoid power tools, esp for getting in close to live tissue - a good hoof knife is adequate.

Forgot to say OP, while as you probably gathered, I don't see sedation as 'the answer', it can be helpful to take the edge off while you're retraining.


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## aharlov (Apr 2, 2013)

Loosie- sorry for being off topic; I was responding to the OP second (or so) comment on how her horse needs shoes because of cracks. I didn't read the entire thread after that. 

My new trimmer doesn't use a dremmel, just her hoof knife, but mentioned today how much she wished she had a dremmel when she spent 25 minutes getting into the cracks on my guys feet. 

And for what it's worth, my guy has flipped out on the trimmer so badly my last trimmer refused to keep trimming him until I had someone "get the aggression out of him". Lots of time, patience, and working with my guy daily- picking up his feet, mimicking motions of the hoof knife (without one), stretching his legs forward and back, having friends pick up his feet, disengaging hind end//ground work//working on getting him respectful of personal space; rubbing just below his eye to get him relaxed. Now I have a much calmer (but not perfect) gelding for trimming.
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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^Haha, it's usually getting the aggression out of farriers that is the big problem!


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## alorabuote (Nov 15, 2013)

So my mare got shoes today and my new farrier who came out today (never seen my horse before today and I gave him ZERO info on her) was looking at her feet and he said "whoever did her shoes last ruined her. They put the nails way to close to her previous holes and it must have caused her a lot of pain" . That is why she's scared of the 'tapping' cause se thinks it's going to hurt her . We tried working with her on it but in tw end just sedated her anyway . He sati he will sedate her the next time too just to be on the safe side and then hopefully she will realize no one is going to hurt her and she will regain her confidence . He said in his opinion she does need the shoes as she has virtually no hoof on her back feet . And the ground where I'm at is just so dry and rough that it's wearing her feet down and not giving them the chance to grow out naturally . Thank you all for your help and opinions . Her split in her hoof is getting a lot better and it's grown out about an inch already  when I get to a computer instead of my phone I can post pictures of her back feet so you can see what I mean when I say she has no hoof . It's worn down so badly that the first thing to hot the ground is her frog and she was stone bruises ect . She came from a bad place and the paddock she is in isn't helping much either . So I figure shoes are a good thing for her for the time being.
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