# What white pattern?



## Swampy (Mar 4, 2013)

What white pattern would be affecting him to have the white square on his neck?

He has a white star very small snip (hardly visible) and small triangle on his chin.

He has been tested for frame overo and has tested negative?

could tobiano be the only white pattern?

Thanks


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## ToManyHorsesAndOnePony (Oct 16, 2013)

I don't know the awnser but he is really pretty, besides the long looking feet


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## Swampy (Mar 4, 2013)

thanks the picture was when they got brought in to do feet and worm while at the breeders has great feet now at just over 2 years old


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## love2lope84 (Jan 29, 2014)

He's a tobiano. That white "square" is just a white marking, imo. No different then how some will have a white patch there.


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## love2lope84 (Jan 29, 2014)

Oh, btw he is freaking adorable!!!


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Tobiano for sure and something else. Tobiano alone doesn't do face white.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

^I thought white on the face could be random? (I don't know much about genetics, so that is probably wrong. xD Yay, learning opportunity!)

He is adorbs. <3


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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

Zexious said:


> ^I thought white on the face could be random? (I don't know much about genetics, so that is probably wrong. xD Yay, learning opportunity!)
> 
> He is adorbs. <3


Nope, caused by white patterns. That why we can usually tell what patterns a horse has by looking at their face markings.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

I want to hesitantly say sabino. The edges of the white look a bit jagged, and his face white is a bit sabino-ish to me too.


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## Swampy (Mar 4, 2013)

thanks everyone he can be quite cute sometimes.

we are hopefully getting him tested for all white pattern

we believed that he would carry overo to cause the square and the jagged edges 

the mother looks like a normal tobiano with just the white over the back but with 2 front white socks and 1 high stocking on her back leg with no facial white photo attached (only one i have) father was 100% solid no white on him


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## MyBoySi (Dec 1, 2011)

I know nothing about color genetics but holy crap is he cute. I love his little tiny head and all this fluff <3


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## Swampy (Mar 4, 2013)

Thanks he only just fits into a miniature bridle now and he is just on 9h im hoping he does grow to much more


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## love2lope84 (Jan 29, 2014)

I thought regular white on the face was a normal toby trait.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobiano
Tobiano traits generally include the following:

White legs from the hocks and knees down
White crossing the back between the withers and the dock of the tail
White is arranged in a vertical pattern
*Facial markings are similar to those of a traditionally solid-colored horse. i.e. star, snip, strip, or blaze. Extreme white facial markings suggest the presence of additional color pattern genes beyond Tobiano*
White patches which are usually rounded or oval in shape, rather than jagged (see Overo)
Dark color extending down the neck, giving the appearance of a shield


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Any white on a horse is caused by a white pattern of some sort. 

Tobiano itself does not cause face white.


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## Swampy (Mar 4, 2013)

so could the tobiano could suppress what sabino would normally produce as far as facial marking?


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## Tryst (Feb 8, 2012)

I don't see anything other than tobiano in your colt, though being a mini they are masters at hiding genes!

While it has been long believed that tobiano and face white were separate and that tobiano didn't contribute to face white this is an interesting read: Opening a can of worms | which might suggest that this is not accurate. It should be interesting to see what future research reveals about tobiano and face white. I am with Lesley and believe that Tobianos can have face white without other white genes.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Interesting. What causes white facial markings on solid colored horses?


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

All white markings on any horse are caused by something. There are quite a few that we have isolated at allele level and can identify scientifically and visually based on rules that the pattern follows. But since this is an ongoing project, it has not been determined yet what causes the "normal" white markings on faces and legs, though there is a theory that is a mutation of sabino.

And as for tobiano, it follows the same as what I listed above. Just because a horse doesn't test as tobiano and something else does not mean it isn't. We only have one sabino mutation isolated and testable. Seeing as there are at least 12 mutations of dominant white and at least 3 for splash, there are definitely mutations of sabino and other genes. Hell, I think I saw a horse that came up negative for roan and was definitely roan.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Zexious said:


> Interesting. What causes white facial markings on solid colored horses?


White patterns do  Aside from tobiano, most of the others can cause face white to occur. In fact, the more we learn, the more it is become clear that "solid" horses, the ones that truly do not have any white pattern at all, are actually exceedingly rare.

This mare only has the star, no other "normal" markings, and no extra body white. She has tested positive for frame, so that is what is likely the cause of her white star. 










Then you get completely solid horses that have no white at all, that still carry a white pattern. Like these ones.

This mare is a Gotland, she is the dam of a homozygous splash white 1 horse. That means she MUST be at least heterozygous for splash 1:









This mare has produced a homozygous tobiano colt - she is the most minimal tobiano I have ever seen: 









And I love this guy. He has tested positive for frame, and the only thing that makes you wonder is the blue eye. No white to be seen.


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## dressagebelle (May 13, 2009)

I thought that frame caused white markings on the neck, but I could be wrong. I had a horse that was tobiano, half brother to Khemosabi, was a tobiano, but had a blaze on his face. He may have had another pattern in play though, dam was just registered as a pinto, no parent info on her, marked as a tobiano as well. His white was outlined, had the half inch thick mix of color and white on the edges of all his white spots, had the map of South America on one shoulder. Wish I had a good pic of him on the computer. Color genes are so interesting. Had 4 high white stockings, up past his knees and hocks too. Jagged if I remember correctly, so maybe he had sabino as well. Either way, your guy is totally adorable, cute little fluff ball!


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Frame causes face white that is typically heavy on the forehead (like Spice's face above) and moves horizontally between the eyes, at most causing bald faces but not usually bald heads. 

This is also a frame-positive face:


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

This is a frame positive mare and her irregular blaze. She has no other white except for a dollar coin sized spot on her side.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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