# Question on stirrup position: ball of foot or mid-foot (home)



## Arksly

I've always been taught to keep the stirrup at the ball of my foot (I ride dressage) as well. Some people's feet naturally turn outwards (like mine), making it painful to keep them straight. So what I would suggest is relax all of the muscles in your body as much as you can (sitting up of course) and just allow your feet to go where they feel most comfortable while trying to keep the stirrup on the ball of your foot.

The only reason I could see people having their feet in home position so they can brace against the stirrups to aid them in maintaining their position and not tipping forward.

I hope this all made sense.


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## tinyliny

Bsms,

I loved your post! And that you mentioned Julie Goodnight. She is an excellent teacher and you can learn a lot from her. Very grounded and no nonsense.

I think the reason that "toes forward" has been taught is that it influences the position of the rest of the leg, just as having one's thumbs on top when holding the reins isn't that way for the benefit of your thumb, but rather it indirectly causes your forearm bone to roll over and thus encourages your elbow to stay down and against your side, and THAT is really important to your overall seat and control fo the horse.

So, toes forward keeps the inside of your lower leg agains the horse (parallep with its' belly). This disallows the back of your calf to roll inward and contact the belly. So doing would encourage you to "grip up" with the back of your calf. That is all good and well if you are going over a jump, but even then you would have to do that but ALSO keep weight flowoing downward through the heels. Gripping up with the back of the calf causes you knee to come off of the saddle and your feet come back ward and thus you lose your stirrup. It's a long cascade of problems that can be avoided by keeping the toe pointed forward and the heel level or down, no up.

Men are shaped differently than women and it's more natural for them to ride in a chair seat (due to the lesser amoun their lower back can roll forward) But really riding with your legs straigth, the knee locked and stiff , lots of weight forced into the stirrup is NOT a good way to ride. You end up trying to sort of pin yourself between pressure against the stirrup from your feet and your butt pressing back against the cantle fo the saddle. 
A lot of folks ride that way all the time. I can see doing it for a brief period of time in an emergency, but in reality, it makes you stiff from top to bottom, and a stiff body cannot really stay "with" the horse's motion. It will always be jolting along "behind" the motion.

Look at a fake jockey strapped on a horse, it will bobble and bounce along, whiplashing behind any sudden motion the horse does. I relaxed human can move with the motion, and thus not seperate from it. It's when your body gets "seperated" from the horse's motion that you will fall off!

I can see all of this in my mind's eye, can you? Hope my description is ok.

However, totally agree with you that you will not ride like you might have 30 years ago. i think you have earned the right to adapt. Just, as you go along, experiment with how it feels to ride the way you want to, then totally drop all responsibility for putting your legs anytwhere and let them HANG down. Then, when they are hanging, feel the horse move under you, even his breathing, in and out will lift your legs up and down. Sit up really straigth and proud and
ride your seatbones only for a few steps. See how that feels. Does you horse move out any easier? Just try it for an experiement.


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## BJJ

Reading how different trainers do it is great but practicing it is all that worked for me! If you are riding for pleasure and not show, practice in the arena until you find a style that is right for you. Remember, since you may be using new muscles, you may get stiff and sore. My hubby and I went back to riding after he did 23 yrs in the military and we ride differently than we used to! I still ride with a cutting seat but only toes in the stirrup (years of working cattle and getting off and on). Now that I do pleasure riding, I had stirrup covers put on and ride with more of my foot in (still have a hang up with getting caught in the stirrup).


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## wild_spot

I am Australian :]

I am a firm believer in riding functionally as opposed to correctly. My body doesn't co-operate in ways that make it very hard for me to hold a 'correct' position - So instead, I work on having a functional position that doesn't hinder my horse and helps me stay secure in the saddle and still be able to apply my aids clearly and effectively.

Like you, my toes just don't point forward and if I try to force my heel down past level, the rest of my position goes out the window. 

I ride in a lot of speed events as well as trail riding. And yep, when i'm galloping, I do tend to have the stirrup right back against the heel of my boot - And oh gosh yes does it help with losing your stirrups! Pictures aren't showing on this computer, but if you feel the urge, do a search and see some pictures i've posted of me riding - I generally look like a sack of potatoes but I stay on and generally do pretty well for myself.


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## Gizmo

I was taught to keep it in the ball of my foot. It was definately instilled in my head. I was trained english but now I ride western that is still how I ride with it on the ball of my foot. Maybe in some of the pics you saw of the rough riding stuff the stirrup slipped or something. That happens to me sometimes when I am going at a canter or gallop. 
It could be dangerous to put your foot so far in the stirrup because if something happens your not going to be able to slip out of them as fast as if they were on the ball of your foot. One thing I can suggest is maybe stretching everything out before you get on your horse. It might help you loosen up and be more relaxed which will help with your leg positioning and such.


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## bsms

No, actually with some sports they teach to put the stirrup at mid foot. I've seen pictures of multiple Australian riders hanging around, and they all were relaxed - with their stirrup at mid foot. 

I'm thinking - and I'm a new rider and don't know - that it is a trade-off: accepting perhaps more difficulty in getting the stirrup free during a fall in exchange for greater certainty that you won't lose a stirrup while riding hard. When I tried it the other day, it seemed easier to ride light in the stirrup and deeper in the seat.

My concern is this: Is it a fact or a myth that putting the stirrup at mid foot makes it more likely you'll get caught in a fall? If I'm riding in rough country - where a fall could be fatal anyways - might it be better to emphasize staying with the horse?

I'm asking, not advising. I am becoming more convinced that many things we are taught is based more on how it looks in the show ring than how it impacts function. For example, a chair seat provides greater security if your horse may bolt or go into a full bore emergency stop. It isn't good for dressage, but it can be good for trail riding a spooky horse.

I don't understand how a mid-foot position makes getting caught more likely. The one time I came off, my horse spooked. I got her stopped, tried to dismount, and halfway thru she reared, spun, and bolted in the opposite direction. A 5 point harness would not have kept me on.

There were bruises across my toes, and the only way to make the stirrup match the bruise was if my foot slid forward during the bolt, then came out with lots of force - but it DID come out. It isn't possible for my foot to go thru the stirrup without breaking it first, and even then it would be doubtful - so how likely is it that riding in a mid-foot position would increase my risk? If it doesn't, then I prefer it - easier to keep a light stirrup, but there if I want it. I just don't have enough experience to know...


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## wild_spot

> My concern is this: Is it a fact or a myth that putting the stirrup at mid foot makes it more likely you'll get caught in a fall? If I'm riding in rough country - where a fall could be fatal anyways - might it be better to emphasize staying with the horse?


I think it's bollocks. As long as your heel doesn't go through the stirrup, there is nothing on your toe/mid foot to get caught, and your foot is generally bendy enough that it will come out from just about any angle. I have come of many times but never gotten a foot caught up.

This is me in the middle of a mounted games race showing where my foot normally finds itself:


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## Gizmo

I suppose that its up to you. I don't have problems with keeping my stirrup on the ball and I feel more comfortable and secure. But you know jockey manage to keep the stirrup on the ball of their toe and they are going VERY fast. So I don't know if that is a good excuse. I just don't want to see anyone get hurt and dragged because their foot just slipped right through.


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## Poseidon

I'm not sure I just lack coordination (Lord knows I do anyway..), but I have a terrible time trying to stay on the balls of my feet while riding. I also don't find it comfortable or secure at all. I feel a lot safer and balanced while riding mid-foot. And I ride western, so my riding boots have a decent sized heel on them, which ends up touching my stirrups all the time, like wild spot's. I have to ride mid-foot in the winter because I have Raynaud's and it affects my feet the worse. From the balls of my feet forward, there's not blood flow if I go outside for longer than 5 minutes (regardless of how many pairs of socks I have on). It's very difficult to balance on something you can't feel.

I also tore my right MCL two years ago, and it was misdiagnosed so it wasn't surgically fixed. It's a pain the butt most days, so riding technically correct..I would be in quite a bit of pain.

I dunno. That's just my two cents.


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## Gizmo

Western stirrpus are a lot harder to fall through with boots on and everything. I ride western too. I guess I just had a bad experience and that is what really has taught me to keep it there for my own safety. I used to ride english, like I said in my first post, and when I got my second horse, a really bratty morgan mare, well she took off on me and I know I wasn't riding correctly and had me stirrups way to far in and they just slipped right over my foot and i was hanging half off half on trying to get unstuck. When I finially did I went tumbling off and slammed my helmet on a rock. So I'm just trying to keep people from repeating my mistakes. I just don't want anyone to get seriously hurt. But if it is physically hard for you to do it then you can't very well do it. Just be really careful.


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## Poseidon

Thanks. I've only fallen once and that was bareback on a super fat horse who took off when I wasn't expecting, so I've yet to have a bad experience like that in a saddle. 

Don't English stirrup irons have grippy things on them? I hadn't actually seen an english saddle until like last month (English is very uncommon around here). Because from what I've seen, they have a bit of texture on them, which would make staying on the balls of your feet a lot easier. My stirrups on my saddle are very smooth because it's new and there's no leather wrapped around the bottom (like another saddle I used for a while).


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## Gizmo

It kind of does, but english boots are really slippery they don't have grips like a western boot does, or at least my western boots. I have a pair of Justin Gypsys. This is a picture of a english stirrup .








It has a grip but doesn't hold as well. I LOVE my stirrups. They have like a suede material on them that keeps them in place very well. Kind of like these ones.









http://www.chicksaddlery.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/SS2585.JPG


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## Poseidon

These are my boots. I couldn't copy the picture of the sole, but you can see that there's no grip on them. 
Ariat Heritage Western R Toe | Women's - Russet Rebel - FREE SHIPPING at Onlineshoes.com

And my stirrups have leather like this:









It has leather, it's just not roughout,which would provide grip. Honestly, I could just get new stirrups, but I have to buy a bucket of UGard soon and the horse comes first. I'd rather not look correct than have a grumpy horse with her ulcers acting up.


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## Gizmo

Yeah mine have more tread than that. But I can't find them online to show you. I'll have to take a picture of my own to show you later.


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## Sarahandlola

I try to keep my stirrups at the top of my foot. It is a lot more comfortable and safer...my feet just never stay there XD And you do have a way bigger chance at getting dragged when you fall off if your stirrup is in the middle of your foot. Getting dragged is a lot more dangerous than just falling off. the other say I was a hunt and I was watching while they jumped through a river. One lad fell off and was dragged through the river and he just about got hid foot out before his horse went crazy. All because his stirrups were to far back.


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## bsms

I've tried to see if my foot without boots could go thru my stirrups...at a minimum, I'd need to have my ankle broken first. And I don't ride barefoot. My daughter's bare foot COULD get thru a stirrup, which is why I insist she ride with cowboy boots with good heels.

I'm going to try riding with a mid-foot position, particularly when using the Australian saddle - which is about 75% of the time. I may change my mind, but I'm beginning to believe functional riding differs sometimes from positional riding...and I'm interested in function. Of course, with just 2 years of experience, that may be a very poorly informed opinion...


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## Sarahandlola

It is not really about the boot going through the stirrups. It is more likely to get stuck if it is in the middle of the foot which will take longer to get out than if it is at the ball of the foot.


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## Gizmo

Yeah, sometimes it doesn't even have to go through it. It can just get stuck in it. When you fall off and get it stuck and turned its positions so its going to stay there. See how this guys foot is halfway in it? Not all the way through. That can still happen to you.


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## Tymer

^^^The way your post formatted on my computer made it look like it said You: Then the picture. I thought, "Ouch. That's harsh..." lol

I use safety stirrups for now because I'm still a child (according to the USEF), but I'm looking into adult jointless safety stirrups for the future. Those rubber bands just do not look formal...(But I have to say they're saved my BUTT a couple times. My horse always stops dead when I fall, but I could have broken a leg with the way it was caught.


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## bsms

Gizmo said:


> Yeah, sometimes it doesn't even have to go through it. It can just get stuck in it. When you fall off and get it stuck and turned its positions so its going to stay there. See how this guys foot is halfway in it? Not all the way through. That can still happen to you.


You bring up a worthwhile point. I'll need to think about it. 

That probably isn't all that far different than how I looked when I came off Mia (except I was surrounded by rocks and cactus), but as she moved away at high speed, my foot pulled thru. If the pressure is sideways, then the sole of the boot can hold on momentarily - but the pull is from the top of the stirrup. If the stirrup is too small, then the top could hold on. If the stirrup is too big, then the foot can slide through. If the stirrup fits, then the foot can neither slide thru nor catch the toe. I wear a size 8 US, and the top can and did smack my toes and jerked my foot as it pulled off.

Just looking at it, I suspect that fellow's foot came out pretty quick like - as soon as his foot flexes forward, there will be nothing there to hold the foot in.

If your foot is touching at the ball of the foot and the heel down, then it is more likely to come out...both for good and ill. The trails where I live in AZ are full of rocks and cactus. My first time thrown, I hit about 18" from a bunch of large, jagged rocks. When I asked experienced riders in the area, they all said to stay on if possible unless cars were involved.

But your point is valid, and deserves thought.


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## upnover

IMO/E, the best way to stay in the saddle is to be in the correct position. Form fits function. Sure, "correct" position will differ among disciplines simply b/c they have different purposes, but for me as someone who jumps, I am most safe, effective, and secure when my lower leg is underneath me. If you throw your lower leg forward it will tip your upper body back, which may help you to be more secure if in that precarious situation you want to lean forward or let your seat out of the saddle (both very common). Unfortunately, this isn't the safest position for all circumstances. So I prefer to strengthen my core muscles, train my lower leg to stay in the correct stable position so my upper body can stay balanced, and train my instinct to balance my body instead of getting into a defensive position. This includes keeping my stirrup on the ball of my foot. NOT because I'm afraid of my foot going through the stirrup, but because I can't get my heel down with my stirrup back that far.

A quote from George Morris's Hunt Seat Equitation about the subject: "I ask my pupils when mounted to place the ball of the foot (not the toe, as this undermines security giving the foot too little stirrup support) in the middle of the stirrup and push the heel down and in, just behind the girth. The greater leverage afforded by this foot placement permits more depression of the heel; the heel is then more flexible and acts as a more sensitive aid, as opposed to riding with feet "home" in the stirrups. "Home" is the term used to describe placement of the rider's food all the way into the stirrup as far the heel of the boot." 

In plain english, putting the stirrup on the ball of your foot lets your heel come down more, which is the most secure and effective. Every so often GM will comment on an eventer in his PH jumping clinic that rides with their stirrup at home. He acknowledges that at high speeds across rough terrain it is popular, but he prefers them to place it on the ball of their foot.


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## upnover

OP, just to add about the toes out comment... you actually don't want to force your toes forward. this is a common misconception! (probably b/c so many trainers say, 'toes forward!') What's important is to have the inside of your calf have contact with your horse's side. According to your personal leg structure, as long as your inside calf is touching, your toes can be angled out as much as 45 degrees. In fact, forcing your toes forward can actually roll your feet in, where you're actually supposed to have more weight on the big toe part of your foot. (i'm speaking for hunters, jumpers, eq, eventers, and the like) Agreed, it's much more comfortable to allow your ankles to be relaxed then to force them in an unnatural position!


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## wild_spot

For me it's not so much about speed, but manouvering. I turn at a gallop - I have lost stirrups before and nearly come off. Cutting a cow or turning in a mounted games race are very different than flat racing. 

In mounted games I have to hang off the side of my horse and get things off the ground at a gallop. And yep, I've come off a lot! I think if my foot could come free in those extreme situations I'm pretty ok. (in an English saddle by the way).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms

Regarding the chair position: If your seat and stirrups are in a line, then your 3 points of support are in a line perpendicular to the horse's spine. If you want to free up the horse's motion for maximum performance, that is good - and that is, I suspect, why it is right for dressage and jumping.

However, if your support is perpendicular to the horse's back, then sudden changes in the horse's velocity will have greater impact on your balance. If your horse suddenly stops, then you don't have anything to keep your weight above your points of support. Thus the cavalry recommended a chair position for the average rider and average horse, particularly covering rough terrain. IIRC, **** Francis (of mystery writing fame, who was a famous steeplechase jockey before) recommended a mild chair position for steeplechase, and most western sports follow suit. Western and Australian saddles tend to force you into that position, although a western saddle does it in part to help with the impact when you rope - something most western riders never do. Sudden stops and sudden bursts of speed are easier to control with 3 points of support.

After sprawling a time or two on my horse's neck while riding an English saddle off property, I read the cavalry manual and figured it made sense. I freely confess I don't have enough experience to KNOW, and that this is just me trying to understand WHY various styles of riding exist.

On property, riding an English saddle, keeping my heels in line with my hips and shoulders feels right. I'm pretty certain it would help the horse max perform in athletic events - if I was a much better rider! I also ride then with my stirrup on the ball of my foot and TRY to have my heels down. My feet don't stick as far out as they used to, but still are about 45 deg out - anything straighter turns my legs into solid wood, and I'm convinced a relaxed leg is more important than toes ahead.

With an Australian or western saddle, off property, I've moved my feet a bit forward and am experimenting with my stirrup at mid-foot. If it works for campdrafting, cutting, steeplechase & polo, and if Julie Goodnight does it when riding spooky horses (Question answered by Julie--where to put your foot. . . . | Facebook), then maybe it is something to add to my bag of tricks. If one is more concerned with the bad things that happen when you lose your stirrup than you are about getting free, then it makes sense. I also am a bit skeptical that it REALLY helps get the foot free better than the home position...but I don't have the experience to judge that well.

I spent most of my adult life in the US Air Force. Flying manuals distinguish between procedures and techniques. Procedures are things you MUST do, or risk death or serious damage to the jet. Techniques are things that may work well for you in some situations, but not others. They are options that you can use or not use as you gain experience.

The riding I did as a teen seemed to be all procedure, no technique. And that may be best, when starting. Returning to riding after a 25 year break, and doing it daily instead of a dozen times each year, I'm trying to learn WHY we do things, so I can tell what things are procedures and which ones are techniques - and I thank all the posters on this thread for giving me a lot to think about.


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## gottatrot

As a purely functional rider who has ridden spooky Arabs for years: I've tried many styles of riding to see what works. A problem with the chair seat you may not have experienced yet is that a quick bolt on a fast horse will cause you to lose your balance backwards and flip off. As for the toes out/in: I have learned it is most comfortable to keep my knee, ankle and toes aligned so they all point the same direction. The angle will differ depending on if a person has thin or thick thighs, how flexible the hip is, etc. 
After years of working on my "seat," no matter how much I tried to learn to balance my horses would catch me off guard sometimes. I learned that the only way to stay with a horse 99% of the time is to keep your weight down in your stirrups and lower legs. This requires your lower leg to touch your horse. I used to lose my stirrups or feel insecure trotting in deep sand or cantering up twisting, narrow trails that required frequent lead changes. I learned to shorten my stirrups to where I could take my weight mostly off the saddle and learned to two-point by flexing my ankles, knees and waist and getting my weight in the stirrups. To do this your heels have to be down slightly and your stirrups on the balls of your feet or slightly behind. If your horse stops suddenly you will not be thrown forward as long as a good portion of your weight is down in the stirrups. You will naturally press weight forward into the stirrups which prevents your lower leg from swinging back and keeps your body from pivoting forward. 
A person who sits down hard in the saddle is like a person sitting on a chair. If you move the chair suddenly their balance is disrupted. A person lightly sitting in the saddle and keeping weight and balance in the stirrups is like a person standing on the ground. It is much harder to push them off balance. If you can learn to two-point at all gaits so it is natural and easy to do indefinitely, your horse can bolt, spin, spook or buck and you will balance on your feet by instinct before your mind has time to react. I have found myself turned around 180 degrees and running the other way on my horse before I had time to react. When I used to try to balance on my butt in the saddle I would find myself sitting on the ground instead.


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## gottatrot

I have seen people have their foot go through a stirrup when they were riding in a shoe with no heel. If they had fallen off at that moment they would have been dragged and/or would probably have broken their leg. I think the most important factor for not getting a foot stuck is not where your foot sits in the stirrup but whether your stirrup is large enough for your boot and whether your boot has a heel. People who wear fat boots and stick them in small stirrups where there is no space for the stirrup to fall off easily are asking for trouble in my opinion. By the way I have fallen off horses at least 30 or 40 times and have never had an issue with my boot catching in the stirrup. But I always ride with a heel. I've had more issues with stirrups falling off the safety bars when a horse rears, jumps or goes up a steep hill. Or by getting hit in the head with stirrups as I'm falling off.


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## bsms

gottatrot said:


> As a purely functional rider who has ridden spooky Arabs for years: I've tried many styles of riding to see what works. A problem with the chair seat you may not have experienced yet is that a quick bolt on a fast horse will cause you to lose your balance backwards and flip off...
> 
> ...no matter how much I tried to learn to balance my horses would catch me off guard sometimes. I learned that the only way to stay with a horse 99% of the time is to keep your weight down in your stirrups and lower legs. This requires your lower leg to touch your horse. I used to lose my stirrups or feel insecure trotting in deep sand or cantering up twisting, narrow trails that required frequent lead changes. I learned to shorten my stirrups to where I could take my weight mostly off the saddle...
> 
> ... I think the most important factor for not getting a foot stuck is not where your foot sits in the stirrup but whether your stirrup is large enough for your boot and whether your boot has a heel...


Your experience mostly mirrors mine. While I don't want to ride full time in a two point, I do need to have the option of shifting to one very quickly, and to get my weight concentrated low very quickly. If my legs are already draped down around the horse vertically, that is tough to do. A shorter stirrup gives me that, but must be compensated for with either moving my feet forward some (I'm talking inches - a chair position, not a 'riding my Harley' position) or by bending my leg more so my heel can be directly beneath me. If I do the second, then the limited flexibility possible in MY ankles forces my heel up level or higher than my toes - and having my toes pointed down is a lot riskier, I think, than having my feet 'home' in the stirrup.

By moving my feet a few inches forward in the stirrup, I can keep my leg bent some AND my heels down.

I think the best 'safety stirrup' is a stirrup that fits your foot. It should be big enough to allow a pivot to force the foot free, but small enough that your heel cannot go through. My foot isn't very long, so I can do that with a 4.75" english stirrup and almost no heel. If my foot was longer, I'd need a deeper or wider stirrup, with a more pronounced heel to prevent my foot from going through. I have seen a western stirrup that was so deep (tall) that my normal Roper riding shoe could slide through, and even my Red Wing boots left me nervous - so I refused to use the saddle.

I have not had a problem with being forced too far back by a spooked horse in most of my saddles. The cantles are all high enough to pull my hips along regardless, at least to date. My English jump saddle is flat enough that I could see getting dumped if my horse jumps forward. Since my bones aren't getting any younger, and my horses reserve the right to leap in fear when birds flush out underneath them, I won't use that saddle off property.

Also, if my horse is tensing up, I tilt forward a bit just in case. With a forward tilt, I think I could stay on even with the jump saddle, but I'm not willing to accept the risk off property. My last fall was 2 years ago this month, and my hip still hurts at times - and I landed on SMALL rocks that time. The ones in the desert of southern Arizona could easily shatter my back...so on the trail, it's a deep saddle for me!


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## kitten_Val

bsms said:


> Also, if my horse is tensing up, I tilt forward a bit just in case. With a forward tilt, I think I could stay on even with the jump saddle, but I'm not willing to accept the risk off property.


Actually if the horse bucks that's not a good idea at all - a good chance you'll eat some dirt. :wink: 

upnover brought a great point, it's not so much about "toe straight", but how you wrap legs around the horse.


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## bsms

My horses are not buckers by nature. The Appy will buck, but only if he thinks you are mad at him and likely to punish him - a left-over from 6 months on a ranch where someone spurred holes in his sides. If you don't act mad, then he is like the mare - he'll jump forward if frightened, then either turn around to look or go 50 yards and turn around to look.

The jump saddle is designed to help the horse clear a jump, not the rider to stay on. At my low experience/competence level, it is like a fine leather bareback pad. You couldn't pay me to ride in it thru the desert :shock: :


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## kitten_Val

Oh, c'mon! It's the most fun to land on cactus! Especially so lovely as you posted.... :lol:


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## wild_spot

I hover somewhere between a chair seat and a two point seat. Cantering I am generally up in a light 3 point.

I don't have access to an arena so all of my riding between competitions is on the trails, and 8 years of that was on my Arab gelding, and very fast! We would canter/gallop everywhere. The position I adopt is what kept me in the saddle for those Arab spooks at a gallop. If he wants to go you can feel his but drop ready to take off.

I remember one day we were riding toward 'gallop hill' - You cross a causeway, around a corner to the left, along a straight bit, then around the corner to the right and it's up from there. We came off the cause way at a hand gallop, ready for the hill, and then EEEEEEEEEEk came to a dead stop - There was a snake in the middle of the track. I don't know how we didn't come off then because the horses stopped before we knew what had happened. 

We also have what I call our own 'Snowy River Ride'. I help dad bring the sheep in off the big hill and they know a shortcut straight down the hill to a gate - if they reach it, we can't get them. The bike can't navigate the rocks, holes, logs, and slope, so I get down on the horse. Flat gallop, racing the sheep, down a very steep hill, jumping logs/rocks/holes - I did this for many years in a Wintec All Purpose and never once came off. I had a good horse underneath me, and a very ungainly looking but functional position.


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## bsms

wild_spot said:


> ...Flat gallop, racing the sheep, down a very steep hill, jumping logs/rocks/holes - I did this for many years in a Wintec All Purpose and never once came off. I had a good horse underneath me, and a very ungainly looking but functional position.


I can only DREAM of riding at that level! Let's see...I'm 52, so...maybe before I hit 65?

However, that is why I ask questions. I don't have time enough in life to learn by just making mistakes!


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## tinyliny

BSMS I am 52 also, and know that frustration that I won't have enough time to learn what I want. It's a downhill curve for me, physically at least. So gotta keep my noggin sharp.
NO way in heaven or h ll would I ride like Wildspot describes. YIKES! Scares me just imagining.


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## gottatrot

That's one of the great things about horseback riding - it is much more about skill and knowledge than about physical strength. The more you ride, the better you get at any age. I feel jealous of some of my older friends who are in their fifties because they're better riders than I am because they've been working on it for longer. So remember: except for some unavoidable effects of aging on your body, the other limitations you have are only from being less experienced. Don't sell yourself short if you want to ride at a higher level. The top riders in almost every discipline include people in their 60s at least. This is something we get better at as we age.
Of course the older we get the harder it is to fall off and be OK. That's why I spend time working on emergency dismounts and falling right so I hopefully can be really good at that in 20 or 30 years too. It's amazing that some people who have ridden for many years never work on safe falling. They will fall off one time and get seriously injured, even if they're relatively young and healthy. It's not good if your strategy is to close your eyes and pray - at any age.


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## my2geldings

bsms said:


> I ask because I think one of my biggest faults is that I don't relax into the saddle, but stay tense (and above the saddle). If I feel nervous, I tend to stand up in the stirrups. Wouldn't it be better to ride deeper, with a longer leg, and maybe slip my feet forward a bit so I won't worry about losing the stirrup? And if I'm riding in an Australian saddle, wouldn't it make sense to ride it like...well, an Australian? I will never compete anywhere in any event and have no intention of ever trying to jump anything over 18". Our Arabians reserve the right to get 'concerned' at any time...what is best for staying in the saddle? Thoughts?


You sound like you already so knowledgeable. With the foot position, you want to be able to have your calf at the girth, so that should naturally leave your toes faced slightly outwards, but your toes still forward, with the front cushy part of your foot putting weight into your stirrup. The length is another thing you have to look into. You want to be able to put the end of your fingers on the buckle of your stirrup, stretch the stirrup along your arm, and the padding of your stirrup should sit right against your chest into your arm pit. Shorten 2 holes if you are jumping.

For improving your seat, I always advise to try to find a horse who is a good on a lunge line(if you're not comfortable at first) and do some none stirrup work while someone is handling your stirrup. Holding onto the front and the back of your saddle while sitting the trot or canter, is a good way to learn that feel you should have when following your horse's movement. That's why I love the lung line so much, because you can truly focus on your position. The more non-stirrup work you do, the more you will improve your position.


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## gottatrot

Not to be controversial but I think the stirrup position formula is debatable. How can there be a formula that is perfect for every rider? People have thin thighs, fat thighs, skinny calves, thick calves, varying degrees of flexibility in their joints, long torsos with short legs, long legs with short torsos, etc. Plus there are so many different disciplines, footings, types of terrain, etc. 
I have three good friends who are all excellent riders. We ride English. All of them can stay on when horses rear or buck, and all of them can gallop in rough mountain country on a variety of horses. Each of us rides with our stirrup at a different length. My friend with a short torso and long legs prefers a very long, dressage leg and she uses this even when jumping cross country. I prefer a shorter leg than one friend who is my exact same height. Besides, what if you have long arms and short legs? When my horse was green I rode her with a shorter stirrup than I do now. I ride a choppier trot with a shorter stirrup than a smooth trot. I even ride my two horses with different stirrup lengths. 
My point is: don't let anyone tell you what your stirrup length should be. Ride where you are most secure and comfortable. If I shorten up more my knees and ankles hurt. If I lengthen more I lose stability. Change your length during a ride if you are on a different horse and it feels wrong.
And when we were talking about leaning back vs. leaning forward: I have found that different horses seem to have different centers of gravity. Sometimes to get in balance with a horse I have to ride leaning forward more than I usually do. On one small mustang I even had to lean back a little to get in sync with her when she galloped. To me it makes sense since horses have different lengths of back, neck, legs, different girth lines, etc.


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## mom2pride

I was taught to maintain a position on the balls of my feet; when I am instructing folks, I teach that way, but also tell them if they find that riding in a different fashion works for them due to physical issues, then that is fine too...

I don't always keep my toes in, however...my knees and hips are wonky, so keeping my toes in can be very painful to attain alot of days...I also tend to ride with stirrups fairly 'short', even for western, just because that helps keep ME aligned, especially with the horse I have now...sitting her trot would be pert near impossible so I put my self in a position that I can post if necessary.


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