# What's the law on this?



## ForeverSunRider (Jun 27, 2013)

This is a bit of a jumbled story so I'll try to make it as clear as possible. I am going to color code the characters so hopefully it helps you keep it straight.

*Characters*

My Family
My mom's Friend
The friend of my mom's friend
Anonymous Family


Preface: My sister (12) expressed an interest in learning to ride. We had 2 horses on our property at the time with the room and finances for a 3rd. My mom was semiseriously looking for a horse/pony for my sister.

The horse in question is our horse, Nick. 

He belonged to a friend of a friend, but due to overcrowding and a financial issue at their barn, they had to downsize their herd. I'm unclear as to whether or not they sold him or leased him to a family for their daughter to use in 4H.

In any case, he spent a year on their property and somewhere along the line they stopped feeding him and he lost close to, if not more than, 400 lbs. My mom's friend happened to be driving by their house, saw the horse in the pasture and recognized him as her friend's horse. She called her friend but was told that although they felt horrible, they could not take him back due to finances. They did express an interest in making sure he ended up in a good home, but said that if a good home was not able to be found, they would have him sent to the sales.

My mom's friend then called my mom. My mom went to look and ended up bringing him home. 

He was underweight, had some minor illnesses that were easily treated but took a few months to treat nonetheless. He needed his feet done and thrush treated. 









To

























It's now June and he's now back up to weight and is healthy, able to be ridden, and is just a very well mannered animal. He's been getting a lot of use and is building muscle. He is turning into a great horse for my sister to learn on and even though he's not my biggest fan, I can do whatever with him and anyone can ride him.

My mom says she keeps thinking that his original owners are going to call or come pick him up and take him away now that he's healthy and fit.

We do not have his papers (he is registered), you can look him up online on AQHA's site: Got Gucci. We have a printout of those forms but no sale papers on him. 

So what, heaven forbid, if they do come calling for him, can we do? Is it possession is 9/10th of the law? We put a lot of work into him. 

I know the chances of them coming are slim, but still. I'd like to put my mom's mind at ease. I tried to tell her if they did come, we could tell them to pay us for boarding him for 10 months, all the vet bills, feeding, and all horse costs. She's still unease.

What's Michigan's law on this, do you know?


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## gssw5 (Jul 30, 2013)

I don't know the law at all, but could you just ask for a bill of sale. You can write one up and ask them to sign it. 

If they don't want to sign it present them with a bill. Make sure to include vet bills, feed bills, farrier fees, training fees, boarding fees, pictures, ect showing all the care, money and time that has been put in to bring the horse back to health. Most likely they don't have the money and will not fight it.

Use this as learning experience. In the future always get a bill of sale right off the bat, that way these kinds of things are less likely to happen.


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## ForeverSunRider (Jun 27, 2013)

My mom wanted one but at the time, his original owners kind of dropped off the radar and it was a situation where if we didn't take him the sale truck was coming in the morning.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

get the bill of sale, also ask nicely for his papers. If the original owners wanted the horse back they would have probably taken him back then. The economy still sucks, hay prices have not dropped, so hopefully they will just sign him over. If they dont want to give the papers to you , offer a hundred bucks for them. First thing would to be get a bill of sale.


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## gssw5 (Jul 30, 2013)

I know the worry your mom is probably feeling, but if they are gone they will probably not back. You can get them on abandonment, I suppose. I would imagine that if the coggins has your mom's name and address on it, and all other bills for the horse are in your mom's name you have all the proof you need if she had to fight. Get the horse micro-chipped as well just one more level of security to prove a case if you had to.

Or consult with an equine law attorney to find out what you should do to give your mom peace of mind and perhaps be able to help prove ownership.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

The old saying is possession is 90 % of the law.

How are they going to prove he's theirs? Microchip? Brand?


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Try to get a bill of sale.

I had kind of a similar situation with my old gelding. His owners sent him to my friend to be retrained because they couldn't handle him. My friend had me start working with him and we clicked. Owners never paid a cent for his board or for the corrective farrier work he needed from their farrier destroying his feet. For almost two years they never called to see how he was progressing and they only came out to see him once (and even then it wasn't to actually see him, they were dropping off their newest acquisition [a 4yo OTTB whose feet their farrier had ruined as well and they couldn't handle him either] for my friend to work with). I worked my friend's horses and mucked all the stalls on the property in exchange for my friend paying his stall fee ($125 a month) and I bought his feed ($20 per week) for six months after my friend offered him to me. She said that the owners had given him to her and she couldn't afford him on her feed bill, so she worked out the deal with me that if I worked for her, she would pay his stall fee and I would buy his feed. 

One day, I went to the barn and Dakota was gone. His owners had seen what a great horse he'd been turned into (thanks to my hard work) and wanted him back, even though he was just barely one step above being a permanently unusable pasture pet (arthritic hocks from being started as a hunter way too early). My friend laid down and transported him to them two hours away without saying anything to me. Because we had no real records of having paid for everything (no receipts for board or farrier), we had no case. 

Don't let the same thing happen to you. I spent two and a half years turning that horse from an obese, flighty, pushy, disrespectful git that you could barely lead without him faking a spook and climbing up your shoulder to get out of work and his owners swore couldn't be ridden without big spurs, a twisted wire snaffle (direct reined) and a tie-down that pinned his nose to his chest, into a polite, trim, happy good citizen who was used as a bareback lesson horse in a french link snaffle for a little girl who was terrified of horses (was thrown from a big warmblood when she was 6). All that work, love, time and money went down the drain when they just took him back and turned him back into an obese light trail horse (he's probably a pasture pet by now with as bad as his hocks were). All because we had no bill of sale.

Registration papers don't mean squat. They get lost, people forget about them. A bill of sale is your only safety net.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Right now, register that horse with some registry, Grade registry, whatever! Then you have documentation that the horse belongs to you. After that, it's on the original owner to proceed with civil action (meaning money & lawyers) to attempt to recover the horse, if they can. And why would they do that if they let the animal go in the first place?


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I'm guessing you didn't keep records of cost or time. In that case, it may still be worth your while to come up with estimates. Conservative estimates. Include board that is average for your area.

You can put a grass lien, sometimes known as a feed lien, on horses. And if the owners refuse to sign him over, you can have the lien on him and you can also take them to civil court.


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