# Overheard conversation: Acing horse to ride it.....Why???



## HombresArablegacy (Oct 12, 2013)

I'm currently having lunch in a restaurant, and in the booth behind me, 2 ladies start talking horses, so my ears automatically perk up. It seems the one doing the most talking is a trainer, and has recently gotten a warmblood that was kept mostly stalled before she got it. She went on to comment that the horse is very nervous and scared " but not hot and high headed like an Arabian" I behaved very well by not turning around at this point and introducing myself ( took great self control tho) Any way she proceeds to say that in order to ride this horse she has to give it ace!!! Still did not turn around, and patting myself on the back for that  But my mind is racing: what about checking the horse for pain, what about going back to basic ground work to settle/ de sensitize the horse. So many more reasonable options that would work besides drugging the poor horse. Oh, and he's also afraid of needles....I wonder why???? Just had to vent. Im appalled by this. Tks for listening.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## karliejaye (Nov 19, 2011)

You deserve a big batch of cookies for not butting in! That would be a very difficult task for me.
I don't get it either. Taking short cuts with horses has never seemed like a good idea.


----------



## RegularJoe (Aug 26, 2014)

karliejaye said:


> Taking short cuts with horses has never seemed like a good idea.


It is if you have no moral compass and just want to sell the horse as quickly as possible to an unsuspecting buyer. 

I'm just speculating, of course, but it seems like this sort of "training" would wear off not long after the drug.


----------



## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

unfortunately their are many, many, many people who think nothing of drugging a horse to show it, show for a buyer or even just riding. I know of many people that starved their horses before starting them, as it was easier than putting the time to actually do the groundwork. 

Lots of people think nothing of working a horse until its completely destroyed at a young age(seen quite a few crippled at 3-5), then going and getting a new one.

and lots of trainers are poor excuses for horse people(or human beings in general) lack knowledge, talent and basic common sense, along with any honesty or decency.


----------



## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

RegularJoe said:


> I'm just speculating, of course, but it seems like this sort of "training" would wear off not long after the drug.


You're absolutely correct. IIRC, sedatives like ace don't allow the horse to learn from experiences while under its effect. So if you ace a horse to get them through a scary experience, you're going to have to ace them next time the same situation comes up. This is OK if you get a rescue horse that badly needs their feet trimmed but won't stand for the farrier, for example; you can get the feet taken care of ASAP and then work on getting them better about standing for the farrier over time. But when you have to ace a horse for every show (or every ride!) then they're never going to get any better...


----------



## RegularJoe (Aug 26, 2014)

BlueSpark said:


> Lots of people think nothing of working a horse until its completely destroyed at a young age(seen quite a few crippled at 3-5), then going and getting a new one.


That's both horrific and stupid. One would think if common decency wouldn't motivate someone to treat their animals well, that the investment of time and money in training the animal would make it something they would want to protect.


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

^^But that's what separates us sensible folks who actually care about horses and those that only want that money pot or that ribbon. The true tragedy is that they often have no idea that what they are doing is wrong....so they will continue the cycle and destroy horse after horse after horse.


As a horse trainer, I think it's blasphemy to drug a horse for anything other than dire circumstances (like Verona said, drugging a horse for the first farrier visit if he needs done desperately). For pretty much anything else, if you can't get a horse to at least tolerate what you're asking after a couple weeks of working with it (at _most_), then you shouldn't call yourself a trainer.


----------



## aubie (Aug 24, 2013)

Why? Stupid, lazy, uncaring, and selfish come to mind. They want the horse to do what they want, when they want, without having to put in any effort. They don't care that they hurt or damage the horse. The depth of human sorry-ness knows no bounds.

Edit: I didn't mean for that rant to cover things like the above mentioned rescue work or other legitimate purposes


----------



## HombresArablegacy (Oct 12, 2013)

I was just so shocked that this woman/trainer was talking about giving ace to the horse like it was standard procedure. In hindsight, I wish I had introduced myself, and talked horses with her. Normally I am very gregarious and outspoken, although I would not have challenged a total stranger on the subject of drugging a horse in order to ride. Instead, I would have given her my card/ contact info: I am trained in equine massage, which would be IMO a far better alternative to ace.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

How sad. I have only ever purchased one horse (filly) that had been stalled. _Never _again. I love her, we got through it, and she needed a good home - no regrets. But, I knew upfront it was going to take additional time, a different approach and lots of consideration. I can't imagine knowing that a horse has been mostly stalled, and not being sensitive to what that means to them and their perspective and just acing them. Wow. Heartless. You can't charge in and save them all, so it was good that you were able to hold your tongue, but depressing to listen to/hear.


----------



## BreakableRider (Aug 14, 2013)

Besides the obvious training reasons not to ace a horse to ride it, there are plenty of other reasons. 

I've known a gelding who was aced so much that, he he had to have his penis amputated. As anyone who's been around aced geldings (or stallions too i'd assume) know, their muscles there relax so much there, that they sort of yoyo up and down. After a call to his previous owner, I learned that he'd been aced for years to be clipped, to be trimmed and shod. Obviously this is an extreme case, but it can happen. 

Besides that, it's dangerous to ride an aced horse! They aren't coordinated and are at a much higher risk to fall and stumble.


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I have dealt with a lot of horses that have been stalled for most of their lives - namely horses aged four or five and have been in flat racing/training since they were babies. I cannot say that they have been problematic if they are handled/treated the right way. 

First thing I do with them is to remove their shoes, work them so they are a but foot sore and then turn them out in a field with something quiet, walk away and forget them for a month or two.
I too think you did well to keep quiet, darn sure I wouldn't have!


----------



## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

RegularJoe said:


> That's both horrific and stupid. One would think if common decency wouldn't motivate someone to treat their animals well, that the investment of time and money in training the animal would make it something they would want to protect.


Lots of people have more money than brains. In some instances, it doesn't take a lot of money to BE more.


----------



## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

My old area was known for competitors to send someone to try out a broken down horse, buy for the cheap and have it drugged up so it could compete until it dropped. Someone's over protective mother shouted at me when I tried a horse out because she thought I was one of these people.

There is the good, bad and ugly in every world, but I would have offered my services and card to them. It probably wouldn't have made an ounce of difference, and they'd continue to do it, but I'd have known in myself that I had tried.


----------



## KsKatt (Jun 2, 2014)

I gave myself an Arabian for my birthday this year. He didn't jump right in the trailer but acted pretty well otherwise. He does have spirit and will move out quickly, but he has easily settled in and didn't seem to have any issues, until... He needed his feet done badly. It just so happened that my vet was there floating some teeth, and that was good. Poor boy was not about to pick up his feet, he acted like he would go over first. Vet used minimal ace, which did the trick. 
What I have found puzzles me. He stands tied, fidgets a little, but good. I groom him, saddle him, no problem, go to pick up his feet and he freaks. So, a little later I tried it with the halter on but me just holding the lead loosely enough to move around and pick up his feet. Now, it was far from perfect, but I did pick up his front feet, briefly. It didn't take long, through some days, for me to clean all four feet, untied. He still freaks if you try to pick up his feet while tied.:?
I have gotten a strong feeling that he was more used than partnered with, if that makes sense. I don't think much care was given to his comfort, saddle fit, grooming sensitive areas, etc. His previous owner had him for six years, I think he was truthful. This was his very first horse, I don't think he's an Arabian type person. Also comical Cayenne (was Blaze) is 14.1 hands, the guy is 6' 4". Seriously!
Any thoughts on this behavior?


----------



## Emma2003 (Jan 9, 2014)

It's both sad and scary that this person is a trainer. At some point she learned or decided that this was acceptable and will no doubt pass it on to other people.


----------



## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

a lot of jumping horses are doped. i think the trainers and people that dope the horses are the ones that need the drug.


----------



## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

> Any thoughts on this behavior?


 KsKatt, my mare did the same thing, also owned by a big guy who didn't know what he was doing and used a bit that was too big and a saddle that didn't fit at all. She would stand for trimming but would go nuts if a hammer or shoe went anywhere near her. The farrier figured she was man handled at some point, but there is no way to know for sure. She is now better, 2 years later. Drugs can be nice in this situation to take the edge off while still having the horse conscious. It gives them a positive association of being relaxed and having their feet done. You shouldn't need to do it more than once or twice.

their is no excuse for sedating any horse on a regular basis.


----------



## KsKatt (Jun 2, 2014)

BlueSpark said:


> KsKatt, 2 years later. Drugs can be nice in this situation to take the edge off while still having the horse conscious. It gives them a positive association of being relaxed and having their feet done. You shouldn't need to do it more than once or twice.
> 
> their is no excuse for sedating any horse on a regular basis.


Two years, I hope my boy doesn't take that long! I do have an advantage that not being tied works. 
We are hoping for the positive association! 

I cannot imagine the mind set that thinks constant sedation is acceptable. But then there are quite a few "training" practices that boggle my mind.:-(


----------



## GallopingGuitarist (Jan 8, 2013)

I boarded my horses with someone for a couple months while I was trying to figure out living facilities and such. I was over at their place once and they talked about how the one mare was still a little dopey from them having given her something (probably ACE) because she was excited (it was a windy spring day) and they were riding. My respect for them as owners and trainers went down a lot that day. They run race horses so I guess they have easy access to sedatives. What made shocked me more was that this horse's name at the track was Tipsy because she was always dopey from sedatives. She is a pony horse. That, to me, is asking for an accident.


----------



## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

I train my own horses for my own personal use, so not a "trainer". My methods will never win any "expediency" prizes, but they don't have to. Any work someone else has ever done with one of my horses, I was right there. However, IF I didn't want to or didn't have the time, whatnot, to train my own horses, I would get knots in my stomach trying to 100% trust someone else with my horses without me present....and these types of stories _wouldn't_ help!!


----------

