# Super cows?????



## ImagineThat (Sep 18, 2010)

I came across this video, and was.... shocked. That does _not_ look comfortable/healthy/natural.... anything. 

What do you think?


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

Reminds me of some halter horses..


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## Arksly (Mar 13, 2010)

Wow.. That doesn't look comfortable at all.


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## ImagineThat (Sep 18, 2010)

lacyloo said:


> Reminds me of some halter horses..


 
That is what I thought... just didn't wanna be the one to say it.


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## ImagineThat (Sep 18, 2010)

And I just wonder... the man says it's "natural", and selective breeding. But how do you have that kind of muscle just standing around eating? Or did I miss something...


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## Zeke (Jun 27, 2010)

I've seen this before and am pretty sure it's a genetic disorder that can occur in other animals as well. If thats true then yes, it can be bred for. I'm sure it has something to do with abnormal testosterone levels.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

They are called Belgian Bleu. Bred for the double muscling that you see. Calves have to be taken C Section as they are too big to be born natural.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Yep, it is like a genetic kink that causes the double muscling. It happens occasionally in every species (even humans), but they decided to breed specifically for it to up the meat production from fewer animals. It looks grotesque to us but most of the animals don't seem to suffer from any issues (other than requiring a c-section delivery), and they are obviously well cared for. But, yes, they do remind me of halter horses.


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## A knack for horses (Jun 17, 2010)

Zeke said:


> I've seen this before and am pretty sure it's a genetic disorder that can occur in other animals as well. If thats true then yes, it can be bred for. I'm sure it has something to do with abnormal testosterone levels.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes there is a disorder that causes uncontrolled growth of the muscles, which is the case here. I can't think of the name of it. Yes this completely could be the product of selective breeding for that specific defect.


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## ImagineThat (Sep 18, 2010)

Hmmm interesting. I still think it looks gross LOL

Now, would they have to be inbred to get this double muscle?? Is "selective breeding" a nice way of saying inbred? hehe  I'm not sure how I feel about breeding these guys just to make more meat...


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## Zeke (Jun 27, 2010)

No, selective breeding does not mean in breeding. It means that these animals have been selected due to a certain characteristic and then bred. Any animal in a breedin program is being selectively bred for certain traits. In this case the extra muscle is why these animals have been bred. Maybe somewhere there has been in inbreeding but I highly doubt all of these cows are that closely related.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ClareLovesHorses (Nov 1, 2010)

very strange!


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## ImagineThat (Sep 18, 2010)

Zeke said:


> No, selective breeding does not mean in breeding. It means that these animals have been selected due to a certain characteristic and then bred. Any animal in a breedin program is being selectively bred for certain traits. In this case the extra muscle is why these animals have been bred. Maybe somewhere there has been in inbreeding but I highly doubt all of these cows are that closely related.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
I was _halfway_ joking ...  Thats why I said hehe

But I just wondered that since it is a mutation or whatever you want to call it... I'm sure it's not that common and it had to have been a bit inbred at least in the beginning. You know what I mean? I'm not sure how to put my thoughts into words..


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## Arksly (Mar 13, 2010)

ImagineThat said:


> I was _halfway_ joking ...  Thats why I said hehe
> 
> But I just wondered that since it is a mutation or whatever you want to call it... I'm sure it's not that common and it had to have been a bit inbred at least in the beginning. You know what I mean? I'm not sure how to put my thoughts into words..


Kind of like with Arabians for the swan neck and dished faces and Quarter Horses with the double muscling?


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## Zeke (Jun 27, 2010)

I mean I'm sure it started with some sort of inbreeding but...less then you might think

Genetic disorders (which is what I would call this situation) are usually a random mutation that has chosen to show itself, sometimes caused by in-breeding, not always. My guess would be that they found a cow like this and bred it to see what would happen. This is where a punnet square comes in with all it's magic and a few generations later the scientists most likely effectively began breeding more and more extra muscly cows. Depending on wether this disorder is sex linked or not would change how much in-breeding is required. 

I'm no expert of course but according to my college Bio 100 class...you wouldn't need too much in-breeding to do this, especially if you began with two unrelated or very very distantly related cows to start with.


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## Juniper (May 4, 2007)

halter horses or bulldogs


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## Mickey4793 (Sep 24, 2009)

Looks tasty! 

No, I'm joking, that's actually really cool. I think I saw a show once about a person with a similar genetic problem.


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## GreyRay (Jun 15, 2010)

Can you say, Cheeseburger?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Carleen (Jun 19, 2009)

Oh great so now we're breeding for genetic disorders? Am I the only one who senses that this is a BAD idea?

And also, did the guy in the video say that the bull looks healthy? It looks like it's full of tumours and steroids to me. Not saying it is, but that's certainly what it looks like.


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## inaclick (Jun 6, 2010)

Well they don't exactly pass on those genetic disorders to whoever will eat them.
Yes it might seem wrong, but not in a world with less and less food and more and more mouths to feed.

I think they're gross too and looking like some alien bodybuilders. But I bet they're tasty


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## Carleen (Jun 19, 2009)

From the video, it sounded as if their idea behind it was more-so creating "leaner, quicker to cook" meats than feeding the hungry. If they were developing these over-muscled cows to feed the starving people of the world then I would respect the practice a little more - but this, to me, looks like a group of scientists who feel that because they are "above" an animal, they can do whatever they want to it for their own satisfaction (and that of their bank accounts).

Not to start an animal rights argument or anything, but I definitely see no "good" behind what they are doing.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

How do you think the world is getting fed with more and more people and less and less land. Turkeys are the same way. There is much more demand for the breast than for any other part so they have been selectively bred to have massive breasts (like hollywood actresses). The breasts are so large that they can not breed naturally or fly but that is where the money is. Of course these cattle are being used to feed the hungry. If it wasn't for selective breeding in all food animals we would ALL be hungry. A beef cow produces about 20 pounds of milk per day at the peak of her gestation but it is not uncommon for a good dairy cow to produce 100 pounds per day. This is why milk is readily available and relatively cheap. They have been selectively bred to be milk producers. Scientists and producers go where the demand is. They also have bills to pay.


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## Zeke (Jun 27, 2010)

Carleen, do you eat beef? Then you are contributing to the need for these types of animals. There is simply not enough room in the world to raise the amount of beef demanded worldwide. Like Kevin has said, it's happening to many animals we eat. 

Salmon and other fish are now farmed, chickens raised in cramped quarters to fit as many as possible on a farm, turkeys with huge breasts, too many dairy cows to an acre...happens more then you may think. It's an issue of wether we want to force the world to go vegetarian (which we DEFINITELY don't have the land for) or have crazy raising/breeding practices.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I wouldn't call any of it crazy. Dairy cows are the most pampered animals on earth. They stay in a very clean enviroment and all they have to do is lay around and eat.


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## Zeke (Jun 27, 2010)

Many Dairy cows are raised well yes...but there are always exceptions. By many people's standards many of the animals we eat are raised in conditions less then they would expect.


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## GreyRay (Jun 15, 2010)

kevinshorses said:


> I wouldn't call any of it crazy. Dairy cows are the most pampered animals on earth. They stay in a very clean enviroment and all they have to do is lay around and eat.


Jeesh, tell me about it! They get water beds, and sand beds, and free choice feed that gets changed every day... I wish I had a water bed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Zeke said:


> Many Dairy cows are raised well yes...but there are always exceptions. By many people's standards many of the animals we eat are raised in conditions less then they would expect.


Most people don't know how any of the animals we eat are REALLY raised. Most people see the youtube videos by groups like HSUS and PETA and think that's real.


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## Carleen (Jun 19, 2009)

Zeke said:


> Carleen, do you eat beef? Then you are contributing to the need for these types of animals. There is simply not enough room in the world to raise the amount of beef demanded worldwide. Like Kevin has said, it's happening to many animals we eat.
> 
> Salmon and other fish are now farmed, chickens raised in cramped quarters to fit as many as possible on a farm, turkeys with huge breasts, too many dairy cows to an acre...happens more then you may think. It's an issue of wether we want to force the world to go vegetarian (which we DEFINITELY don't have the land for) or have crazy raising/breeding practices.


No I do not, hence my very strong opinions on the subject.


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

GreyRay said:


> Can you say, Cheeseburger?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why, yes. Yes I can!



Carleen said:


> Oh great so now we're breeding for genetic disorders? Am I the only one who senses that this is a BAD idea?


Every animal has been selctivly bred. The horse you love and ride was probably selectively bred. 

If you own a pure breed dog it was selectively bred. Englisg bull dog, for example, would barely exist if humans did not help them along. They can't breed well on their own. Most of them ar artificaly inseminated and have Csections because they cannot physically give birth.

It's people like those scientist that are the reason you are alive. I'm sure your parents weren't vegan or vegitarian. They ate meat. And no one's a vegan anyways. Everything you use everyday is made of some part of an animal. Not to be rude, but get over yourself. MORE MEAT FROM FEWER COWS. Sounds like a good idea to me. 

I'm glad that there are practical people out there.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Lonestar22 said:


> Every animal has been selctively bred. The horse you love and ride was probably selectively bred.


Absolutely. _All _domestic animals, whether they're classified as pets or livestock, have been genetically altered by humans.

Those of you getting your noses out of joint about genetic manipulation shouldn't own _any_ domestic animals, since no animal humanity breeds for its own purposes is without it to some degree.


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## inaclick (Jun 6, 2010)

Try avoiding these products too then.


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## Carleen (Jun 19, 2009)

Lonestar22 said:


> Every animal has been selctivly bred. The horse you love and ride was probably selectively bred.
> 
> If you own a pure breed dog it was selectively bred. Englisg bull dog, for example, would barely exist if humans did not help them along. They can't breed well on their own. Most of them ar artificaly inseminated and have Csections because they cannot physically give birth.
> 
> ...


Excuse me for pointing something out - but at no point in this thread was I attacking anyone, especially not you who I don't think had even posted in this thread before this? So when you say "not to be rude" and then say something blatantly rude to me, it is taken rudely. 

I simply gave my opinion, as did everyone who said things like "mm, tasty", etc. But I, unlike you, do not feel the need to attack other people for their personal opinions. Sure I could have a few choice words for comments like that, but why would I? It's not going to change their opinions on anything but that shouldn't mean that I should be disallowed to give my own opinion just because it may not be the opinion of the majority. That is the point of discussion forums - to share ideas, opinions, etc.


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

exactly. I gave you my opionion as well. Probably more bluntly than you were expecting. It is not a bad idea. It is not wrong. It's food. End of story. 

We ARE higher up in the food chain, therefore we get to choose what happens to those below us. Not everyone agrees. Though most of us agree it should be done humanely. Instead of saying how bad it is for an animal to be treated humanely and used for a purpose why don't you try and use your passion for the animals that don't get treated humanelt. Go volunteer at a rescue.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Ina, thank you for posting that. I like that little poster.


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## inaclick (Jun 6, 2010)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Ina, thank you for posting that. I like that little poster.


it's slightly mean - the conclusion at least - but nonetheless true and..informative.

I had no idea of how many things you can make out of a cow.
Well yes the cows do look horrible but so do the:

- shih tzu and most miniature dog breeds compared to the wolf 
- those potbellied pigs compared to the boars
- the turkeys compared to the...wild turkeys (or are they extinct?)

and the examples could go on, we modified the appearance of certain breeds since domestication to present so much, you could hardly believe they belong to the same species.

I do not mind vegans , I respect them and honestly I think they might be healthier. 
My only issue is with people who believe that food comes directly from god's hands in proportion with your needs, just because you / your family / your country are fortunate enough to go to bed with a filled stomach. Doesnt matter if its filled with spinach or beef.

No. Food is scarce and hard to get and humans have spent their entire existence trying to figure out - among others - how to get MORE food at LESS costs. 
And we still do.


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