# Is 19 years old too old to breed?



## trickpony23 (Nov 8, 2008)

Hey there, I was wondering if you guys think that it would be wrong or not so much of a good idea to breed my 19 year old thoroughbred? :? she is in good health no lameness or health issues, nothing... I was thinking about breeding her with a Palomino Stud. But Im unsure if it is the right thing to do... your opinions matter to me, please let me know. Thank you


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## Joshie (Aug 26, 2008)

There are so many horses out there. It would be much less expensive to purchase a foal that is already born. You could get a registered foal for much less than you would have in this cross.


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## aappyfan1 (Jun 28, 2008)

Joshie is right about buying a foal would probably be the way to go. At 19 even with a healthy mare there can be complications. Do you know if she ever has had a foal before?? If she hasn't had a foal or its been years since she has had one the complications increase, and also harder to get into foal.


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## trickpony23 (Nov 8, 2008)

yes but im not worried about the money i would like to have a foal from her, rather than buy one, im just trying to see if she would be too old or not


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## Joshie (Aug 26, 2008)

But we always need to consider what would happen to the resultant foal in the event our circumstances would change and we'd be unable to keep the foal. As the mother of two children I can tell you that you can never predict that an offspring will be like the parent. There's no guarantee at all that the foal would be at all like your mare.

Birth is hard on one's body. Has this mare ever had a foal? Is her conformation exceptional? This is important in predicting future health problems in a foal. Is she an easy keeper who is very healthy? Is she registered?


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## xkatex (Oct 7, 2007)

Generally speaking, no matter what the cicumstances are, the broodmares at the stable I work for retire them by the age of 20. Yes you can breed a mare at 19 and have no problems but these mares have been having foals since the age of 5 or 6 even younger. If she has NOT had a foal im sorry to say but for safety sake I wouldnt do it. If you dont like what your hearing here, try contacting your vet and asking their opinion on the matter.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I also think it wouldn't be a good idea; as there are more risks/complications if she's older. Purchasing a healthy foal that's already born is a good idea.


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

I would say don't breed her. It is very stressful on a mare.

Is your mare a fine example of the breed(great conformation, bloodlines, and ability)? What did she accomplish in her life? 

Thoroughbreds are not in short supply, and even the best bred ones are not selling well. 

Is this palomino stud you mentioned registered? Is he even a TB? Do you just like him because he's yellow or possilbly easily accessible? Has the stud produced anything worth mentioning?

Have you ever trained a foal? Foals are VERY easy to spoil and that is VERY hard to undo, especially if you don't know what you are doing. 

Personality and being sweet, or other silly things are not good reasons for anything. Breeding, selling etc. How many "sweet" horses are people having trouble GIVING away.

Color is also not a good reason to breed. 

Go to a few auctions. Even if you are not going to buy. Just go, and ask yourself if you really want to breed. You could easily say, "Mine will never end up at that auction." but how does that help the ones you see. 

I have seen TB colts by a stallion with a $10,000 stud fee not get a bid at a breed auction.


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## KANSAS_TWISTER (Feb 23, 2007)

i agee with the others.....but......a mare i knew of had her last foal at 25, unfurtunitly it did not servive, i had know this mare in her younger years when her first owner had her, i saw her at the st lazarre hunter trials a few years back and she looked so with drawn (just having lost her last foal) and aged.....i know that when i lived in montreal that my barn owner would have each mare checked by a vet before it was bred regruadless of age, i know when i left quebec the horse market was at a low, (it's been 3 years since i've moved) to the point where horses where just being given away....so eguardless just think of the pros and cons of breeding.....


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## g8ted4me (Sep 3, 2008)

I would definately say to buy a foal if you find one that you like. There are so many out there. 
#1 do you know that your mare has had a foal in the past?
#2 consult with your vet and do a complete check to make sure she is healthy- and still there could be complications.

I bought a mare and didn't know she was in foal when I purchased her- she is 5 years old. I was a freak when I found out as I have had no foaling experiences and didn't want anything to my mare. Also if you buy a foal you don't miss out on riding time! Just something to consider!:lol:


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## Colorado Dobes (Nov 12, 2008)

I, too, would pass on breeding this mare. Especially if she hasn't been bred before. I'd be too concerned about the well being of both the mare and the foal.


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## DarkRider (Jul 2, 2008)

Upon first reading this , I felt compelled to at least say , gosh , horses are so plentiful why not just eliminate the middle man and buy a foal?.........BUT , if you truly want a foal for YOUR mare that is great , 19 is not too old , one of my mares last foaled at 23 before I leased her to a 4-H'er. I must impress upon you however , to get your vets opinion , discuss options and a complete check up on your mare inside and out to see if she is breeding sound. A vet check on the stallion would not be such a dumb idea either , since there ARE STD's amongst horses.


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## trickpony23 (Nov 8, 2008)

I thank you guys very much, although I just had her vet checked and he said she has heeves,. so i dont think i will be breeding her..


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

Theres really no reason not to breed a normal healthy 19 year old mare. Research has shown age is not a factor for mares foaling at all older mares have no higher chance of younger mares for foaling problems. I've had well over 50 mares foal over the age of 20 a few years ago I had 6 mares foal from age 20 to 24.


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## trickpony23 (Nov 8, 2008)

wow thank you very much, Im just going to have the vet check her and make sure everything is alright before i do, and if i do decide to i will try to find a good stud, and keep her well examined during the pregnancy.. i will let ya know what goes on, thanks to everyone for their opinions and advice


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

I'm not sure if this is possible, but what about getting a surrogate mare? That way you can still have a foal out of your mare, but you wouldn't have to worry about any complications with birth. Though I have a feeling that would be expensive.

Sorry to hear she has heaves


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## suncolorsranch (Nov 28, 2007)

No, not if she is healthy.


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## LoveMyFinny (Dec 5, 2008)

I wouldn't risk her health, especially with heaves. That alone can be a lot for a horse to handle, add a pregnancy with it, it might be too much for her to handle at her age. I don't see a problem breeding a healthy 19 year old mare, but your mare is not healthy, she has a medical condition. Also, if she has not been having babies for the past several years, then she is not a good candidate at her age in my opinion. Broodmares that drop foals every year can go into their twenties foaling without a problem, if she has never foaled or hasn't for the past 5 or so years, I think its too much for her. I wouldn't be breeding her if she were mine.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Breeding a maiden mare after about 10 years old basically guarantees problems. You will be very lucky if you can a) get the horse pregnant and maintain the pregnancy and b) if at the end of it all you end up with even 1 horse, let alone a healthy one.
It is extremely irresponsible first of all to breed an older maiden mare and second of all to breed one not of breeding quality.
By breeding this mare you are endangering her and her potential foal AND you are contributing to horse slaughter by creating another grade X unregistered mare that is worth $50. I hope for everyone's sake that the mare won't get pregnant.


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

anebel could you post some research to back up your claims? I've found no problems with breeding maiden mares at 10 years of age and have read no research that indicates in any way a higher rate of problems then any other age. I've bred 100's of mares and worked with many reproduction vets and not 1 feels theres a higher incident of problems with older or maiden mares foaling.


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

being 19 and having medicial problems (heaves) I would not bred her.

also the ten yr old maiden mare, I agree with county. The only thing
I would watch for is to make sure she is a good mother and didn't reject 
or try to hurt the foal.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

county said:


> anebel could you post some research to back up your claims? I've found no problems with breeding maiden mares at 10 years of age and have read no research that indicates in any way a higher rate of problems then any other age. I've bred 100's of mares and worked with many reproduction vets and not 1 feels theres a higher incident of problems with older or maiden mares foaling.


Breeding the Old Maiden Mare
Or just google it yourself. There are a lot of problems including entrometritis, nutrition getting to the foal and the mare, keeping weight on the mare, caring for the mare's legs/joints, the mare being strong enough to make it through foaling, rejection, milk production, etc. In an older mare that has been bred before 10, these are not normally problems because the mare has already been through it all, younger, healthier and stronger. Also, if there are any complications the breeder will already know because she has been bred before and they know what to watch for in the mare and avoid going through the same things with an older mare. Also with a mare of this age (19/10) there is no indication whether or not her legs and conformation will hold up to pregnancy or birth.

I am not in the business of breeding, but I have attempted to breed a mare before (with the aid of one of the region's top vets) and am good friends with a very prominent breeder in the area. Breeding a good horse is not as easy as many people think, especially when you have one mare, and want one foal that is as close to perfect as possible. When running a large operation, if you breed 40 mares a year, you only expect 20 to be of good quality. If you are running a smaller operation or breeding only one mare, you have to increase those odds dramatically or else you are losing a lot of money very quickly. I am not disagreeing with you, only arguing that there is a large difference in running a breeding operation, and breeding one mare, once, for the first time.


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

As long as the vet checks the mare out as ok, I'd say it should be fine. Most vets out here say it's fine to breed a maiden mare unil they're 15... If the mare has been bred before, the vets out here say they can be bred safely until they're roughly 23... but in the end, you'd want a vet check because not all mares are the same.


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## CruzBay9 (Feb 5, 2009)

I understand why you want to breed from your mare. I also bred from my older, maiden Thoroughbred mare because I loved her so much and wanted a foal from her.

Like yours, she was in great health and 19 years old. I made sure to use a well-respected vet and used AI. I had never bred before, and had a lot of people telling me that everything would go wrong, but I refused to panic.

I rode her for the first few months before giving her the rest of the time off.

I did everything I was told by the vet, and she had a healthy colt over night. The only issues came after the birth when she had trouble accepting ber baby. But I worked through those too, and within a week she was in love with him.

My mare has since passed away, at age 26, and I miss her every day. If it hadn't been for her son, I would have given up riding. As it is, he and I are now successfully winning First Level dressage together. I love him to bits and we have a very strong bond.

I'm not saying the others are wrong to suggest buying a foal. I think it is cheaper in the long run. But the satisfaction of breeding and training your own horse is unbelievable and not to be left out of the equation.

Good luck with your decision.


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## horsecrazycool (Feb 17, 2009)

The safest years for a mare to foal is between 5 and 8 or so, when a mare is that age there can always be complications. Also there is not a 100% chance of the foal being born alive either. But, it does depend on the mare, if she has not had a foal before then I wouldn't.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> Breeding a maiden mare after about 10 years old basically guarantees problems. You will be very lucky if you can a) get the horse pregnant and maintain the pregnancy and b) if at the end of it all you end up with even 1 horse, let alone a healthy one.
> It is extremely irresponsible first of all to breed an older maiden mare and second of all to breed one not of breeding quality.
> By breeding this mare you are endangering her and her potential foal AND you are contributing to horse slaughter by creating another grade X unregistered mare that is worth $50. I hope for everyone's sake that the mare won't get pregnant.


Seriously? We rarely breed a mare BEFORE she turns 10. They need to earn the right to reproduce.

How do you know the quality of the mare?


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## centrestableswendy (Dec 21, 2008)

I've heard that if a mare doesn't have a foal by age 10, it gets more difficult and potentially dangerous for her later in life. For your girl's safety, I wouldn't do it.


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## Purplewitch (Feb 17, 2009)

I longed to breed with my mare but at 19 and a maiden, thought she was too old. I contacted a breeder friend who said as long as the mare was in good health and would be looked after properly, there was no reason why I could not breed from her. She had mares well into their 20's that she still bred with. My mare caught on the first visit to the stallion and carried to full term, delivering a then, healthy filly foal. Sadly the filly died at 2 months old and apart from grieving for her baby, my mare was absolutely fine. There are always risks with breeding even with younger horses and yes, I suppose those risks are greater when the horse is older, therefore its a personal choice. Good luck with what you do!


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## SilverMeadowArabians (Jan 12, 2009)

yea i wouldn't breed her.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

centrestableswendy said:


> I've heard that if a mare doesn't have a foal by age 10, it gets more difficult and potentially dangerous for her later in life. For your girl's safety, I wouldn't do it.


And how many colts have you raised? We've been doing this for over 20 years. NEVER had an issue with the mare.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

mls said:


> And how many colts have you raised? We've been doing this for over 20 years. NEVER had an issue with the mare.


.. Ok well obviously it's worked for you and your breeding operation (Never say never). I know breeders of very quality horses that are paying 1000 Euros per dose of semen and they aren't about to just chuck it in a mare without taking every precaution. Also, if a horse hasn't "proven itself" by 10, then you need a new trainer hun. Most horses going PSG or GP are doing it by 8 or 9.
Anyways. So when you're breeding for one or two very high quality horses you aren't going to do it with an older maiden mare. 
For other large volume breeding operations there is a lot of mentality like who cares. These horses are thrown in a field with a stallion and if one doesn't catch, foals out poorly or has a still birth, meh there goes a mare and $50. Too bad.
For myself having unsuccessfully bred a maiden mare at 10 years old I would not recommend anyone doing it with an older mare, because our problems were age related. A mare having been in moderate to hard work for some years has nearly a 100% chance of having endometritis to some severity.


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## onetoomany (Dec 10, 2008)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> Also, if a horse hasn't "proven itself" by 10, then you need a new trainer hun. Most horses going PSG or GP are doing it by 8 or 9.


Ok first off, not all of us use trainers, hun. Some of us bring our horses along at a more leisurely pace because we are not planning on showing at the highest level possible in our discipline. Not all horses mature at the same rate and if it takes a mare until 10 to prove herself in the showring, so what? Not to mention many people like to keep showing their mares to get more accomplishments under their belts rather than take over a year off for breeding, many people prefer to wait until the mare is retired. I have a friend who didn't seriously start her mare in the show ring until the horse was 9, she is now doing quite well. I don't think there is a set age to determine whether a horse should or should not be accomplished. On a personal note my mare foaled out at age 10 with no issues.

I would also like to see an actual source backing up your stastic concerning mares with moderate to heavy work loads having varying degrees of endometritis.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> .Also, if a horse hasn't "proven itself" by 10, then you need a new trainer hun. Most horses going PSG or GP are doing it by 8 or 9.
> 
> A mare having been in moderate to hard work for some years has nearly a 100% chance of having endometritis to some severity.


Well 'hun', we compete year round. Since gestation is 11 months, factor in 3-6 months of nursing, that is a LONG time to not compete a horse. I do not consider one title to be a proven horse. 


Do you have any information to back up that endometritis claim?


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Talk to your vet. I have had all three vets I spoke to tell me this when I was breeding my mare.


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## tomahawksmom (Feb 19, 2009)

I breed my 18 year old mare in 2005 and in 2006 she lost the first one but took the second in 2006 so she just had her baby last year he is healthy but I will not breed her again she looked so bad at the end i won't put her through that again I will buy one next time.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

tomahawksmom said:


> I breed my 18 year old mare in 2005 and in 2006 she lost the first one but took the second in 2006 so she just had her baby last year he is healthy but I will not breed her again she looked so bad at the end i won't put her through that again I will buy one next time.


Exactly my point.
The bottom line beyond anything, is it fair to the horse?

The mare is not in her prime, despite how healthy she may be, you simply cannot expect her body adapt so drastically to something like pregnancy when she has never been through it. It is the same with expecting her to just get fit and be able to jump a 3'6 or 4' jumping course. Her body isn't used to it, her mind isn't used to it, she is on the "downslope" of her life, something is going to break down. Horses are "middle-aged" at 10-15. When women who are "middle aged" have children for the first time, something goes wrong a higher percentage of the time.


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

None of my mares could jump 4 feet at any point in their life. I've read nothing at all that says an older mare shouldn't be bred. I've bred many many over 20 that did great I've bred some under 10 that didn't. Age really plays no part its mostly genetics. Some blood lines do very well at being brood mares and some don't. And comparing humans to animals is pointless their not close to the same thing.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> Talk to your vet.


I do - frequently.

(Vet techs tend to talk to their bosses)


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## neighxwinnie18 (Feb 26, 2009)

I wouldn't listen to what other people say on here. talk to your vet. only he can let you know whether its healthy enough or not to carry and deliver a foal. its a lot of hard work on a mare, my mare just had one Feb 19 at 2:00 am. and she's 12 or 13 years old. it all depends on the health of your mare and her reproductive system.


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## Welshponyfan (Jan 24, 2009)

Yeah I Would Consult It With A Vet Do See If She Can Have A Foal or To Old We Stop breeding A Mare When she Was 14 And That was It After That No More Foals
And Yet I've Know People That Have Mares That Are in Foal Right Now And About 15 Or 17 Years Old..So Its Your Choice!! Good Luck!


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## Welshponyfan (Jan 24, 2009)

First Again Has The Mare Been Bread Before?!? Cause if Not Don't Foaling Stress Would Start And That's Not Good


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## NewHeart (Dec 10, 2008)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> Talk to your vet. I have had all three vets I spoke to tell me this when I was breeding my mare.


And did you care to ask their source on this? Did they all find this in a med journal or is this common knowledge surrounding only the vets that you choose to use? Just because your vet says so, does not make it a published source with credible facts. I don't know your vets, to me your vets could be someone without any kind of degree who just labels themselves as a "vet". I could be a vet for all you know, then tomorrow I could decide to be an astronaut! My point here is, just because your vet says or even ten of your vets for that matter, does not make it a credible source.


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