# Thoroughbred - Worth it?



## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

I don't like the slope of his back... He looks too downhill? I'm no expert, don't get me wrong, but judging from what people have said about my own horses, that's what I think.

And I also don't think he'd do too well in Western Pleasure, he just doesn't look like a WP, in my opinion.


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## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

To me he looks butt high and roach backed which are both conformational flaws. He also looks a little steep in the shoulder and hip as well. I really don't like the way his back/withers/shoulder/neck tie together at all but maybe he grew into it? It can be hard to judge suitability on babies because they get gangly phases and then the even out and you go WOW I didn't expect that. That being said, I would not personally buy him based on that picture for any price. If you try him out and he does exactly what you want and you click then that's entirely up to you as it appears he won't be working overly hard or doing any high level jumping or other strenuous work or competitions. A more recent picture and/or video of him being ridden would help us more accurately help you with confo and suitability questions.


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

his back looks funny to me too... maybe its a bit roach back?
i think he could do well in WP, but i dont know that much about it, but from what ive seen he looks like one. except he might have trouble with the small steps? TB's usually have long strides, haha the opposite of a WP horse. but he is cute


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

He's certainly leggy! And butt-high (I don't like the feeling of always riding downhill I tend to get when I ride horses with this type of downhill conformation). He doesn't have much depth to his heart girth either.

He looks more like an English prospect to me than western. At least I can't imagine him in a WP head position. 

But the most important thing about a horse (in my opinion) is disposition and training. A horse with a good disposition and good training is well worth $1500 in my mind.  So take training and disposition into account too.

PS. I really don't see the roach back everyone is talking about. His neck is a bit short though. I could see him as a hunter but not as a western horse.


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## HorseOfCourse (Jul 20, 2009)

If he was only 2 in that picture, I believe there is a possibility that he could've just been outgrowing his "baby conformation" I think we would need a picture of him at this age to really tell.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

The most important things in assessing suitability for pleasure horses and lower level competitive horses are 1.) temperment and 2.) training and experience. Conformation runs a distant third. 

If this horse has a good temperment, has been well and kindly started, and has some experience under saddle, then he may well be worth $1500. It all depends on how far along he is in his training. In this market, for $1500., I'd want him to be pretty solid. 

I do agree with the other posters that he doesn't look anything like a WP horse. If you truly *want* to do WP, it would be foolish to start with anything other than a QH of the WP type.

Try to get a photo of his confo now as a three year old, that will give you more useful critiques.


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## westonsma (May 19, 2009)

TBs don't even begin to physically mature until about 6yo, whereas other breeds begin to mature between 3 and 4. I would have to see a more recent pic of him to really be a judge. I will say though, he is really light-boned.


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

westonsma said:


> TBs don't even begin to physically mature until about 6yo, whereas other breeds begin to mature between 3 and 4. I would have to see a more recent pic of him to really be a judge. I will say though, he is really light-boned.


 TB's are bred to mature more quickly then any other breed. but i dont think theres that much of a diffference, only a little one :lol:


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## Jump4heaven (Feb 26, 2009)

Hmm OK. Well actually his frame in WP is amazing, as hard as that is to believe. I am going to get a pic myself, OUT of that uneven outdoor arena, tomorrow morning (hopefully).

It'll be almost impossible for me to get a pic of him out of that "horse mode" because my camera sucks.. But I can get some of him on cross ties.

I am really anti-QH, only because they don't stand out. You could get the loudest red roan or frame horse, and really, they look the same to me. I once took an untrained Haflinger in a western pleasure class, our first week ever riding western together without lessons, and I placed 3rd. And I think we only placed because she stood out more than others.  So I'm trying to lean more towards something that stands out, and his legs really do stand out to me.

But really I don't know much about confirmation.. I'm gonna have to go google roach back XD And, is light boned bad?


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## Pidge (Sep 5, 2009)

I see classic TB. Withers and long legs.

At 2 its hard to tell anything...a current picture would help. He has some super long skinny legs lol but hey hes a TB. He is also butt high but he may have grown out of that...we really just need new pictures lol

He does look sorta pencil necked in that picture...i think that could be corrected with some proper work outs and neck muscling though.

As for what light boned means....it means a horse who has a light thin frame, this could mean he has a weaker bone structure or in this horses case (i believe) he has a typical TB build, light weight an skinny, thin possibly weak legs. Not sure I explained that well...but I tried lol anyone have a more clear explanation?


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## speedy da fish (May 7, 2009)

Jump4heaven said:


>


Conformation observations

butt high (usuing the technical term there :wink
bit over at the knee, or that might just be the picture angle.
big chest.
short neck.
nice, pretty, show quality head.
kind eyes.
feet look ok from what i can see too.
remember he could grow out of all of these things, he is only 3. If you think he is going well in the riding aspects you wish to persue then 1500 isnt bad (i live in england and horses are more expensive here so...). maybe you could haggle a little so somewhere between 1000 and 1500 would be fine IMO


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## westonsma (May 19, 2009)

ridergirl23 said:


> TB's are bred to mature more quickly then any other breed. but i dont think theres that much of a diffference, only a little one :lol:


 
"The 2-year old Thoroughbreds had significantly quicker rates of dorsi-flexion of their fetlock joints than 3- (p=0.01), 4- (p=0.01), and 5-year old (p<0.01) Thoroughbreds following impact of the leading forelimb during moderate galloping (avg. 14m/s). Higher rates of dorsi-flexion in young Thoroughbreds may reflect immaturity (lack of stiffness) of the suspensory apparatus tissues."

Elsevier: Article Locator

The only point I was trying to make is that you cannot accurately judge such a young horse of the TB breed as there is a huge difference between the 2yo and the 3yo body.

And TBs do NOT develop as fast as other breeds, as they should correctly. TBs have been bred for their bone-plates to seal quicker, not to physically mature, but such is not always the case, which is why they are so prone to injury at a young age.


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## Ridehorses99 (Dec 23, 2009)

Maybe it's just me, but he looks really short-backed. I can't even imagine my WP Show saddle on his back. It looks like it would go all the way back to his hips. It may be because of his long legs, but he looks disproportionately long in the legs and short in the neck and back. However, that may be the stage he was in at the time the picture was taken. JMO.


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## kchfuller (Feb 1, 2008)

He is def. cut but only 2 in the pictures .. I know that my TB grew all kinds in her 4-5 yr so I can imagine that an up to date pictures would be something we would need to see to give you an accurate critique


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## Jump4heaven (Feb 26, 2009)

Ok.  Well she was asking around 2,500. I can try and maybe get 1,250, but really the cost isn't bad. I'm allowed to do payments. The horse I am trading -- I paid 75, and she's giving me what's equal to 300 dollars (1 month board). Plus this little horse I have is un-usable to me, a Hackney pony cross foal.

This is in a pretty uneven outdoor riding arena, too.. It's a little hilly. Tomorrow morning I get to take pics when I try him out, maybe some of me on him & riding. 

He's not for little shows, he's for bigger shows like All American Youth Show and things like that.


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## Jump4heaven (Feb 26, 2009)

Ok well I rode him, and he goes really easy, and his canter is so nice, so I bought him. I didn't get a chance to take pics, but I will soon, because I still want opinions.


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## duckeh (Dec 16, 2008)

Personally, the only major fault I see is a bit down hill, which at 2.. could have changed drastically. For myself, I prefer a more compact build compared to a long back. I had a thoroughbred built VERY similar to this (all the way down to the some what long pasterns, short back, nice neck, and dainty legs) and he was the most naturally athletic horse I ever had the pleasure to work with.

I would love to see some action shots and updated conformation photos.


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## Jump4heaven (Feb 26, 2009)

Well the owner told me he's not done growing, so his back end should end up lower than the withers.  And really, he isn't that compact, his back is pretty long. His legs just make it look that way >.<


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

We would need better pictures. 

It's true he is downhill but if you look at the fencing behind the horse, the photo is also not even which means he is not standing on even ground. Also, you said he was 2 in the picture, it's very likely he might have evened out since the picture was taken which means he will be less bum high.

I would really like to look at a recent picture of this guy.


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## duckeh (Dec 16, 2008)

Jump4heaven said:


> Well the owner told me he's not done growing, so his back end should end up lower than the withers.  And really, he isn't that compact, his back is pretty long. His legs just make it look that way >.<


 
I had to ask, just to clarify, do you think being "compact" is a negative quality? (not specifically him, but in general)

And I'm not asking that to be rude by any means, I'm just asking to see your opinion on the matter is all


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## Jump4heaven (Feb 26, 2009)

Hmm.. Well, really, I don't. But I'm sure others do. But it's really just opinion -- As long as it doesn't affect the riding or comfort of the horse (IMO)


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

Being long in the back makes a horse more prone to having a weak loin and a weak back. I prefer a more compact horse. However, if a horse has a long back but a strong loin you should be okay.

I see:
Downhill
his front pasterns are realllly long and weak-looking
very fine boned
over at the knee
he has a really ugly shaped neck, but that can be fixed with proper conditioning

he has a cute head, and overall is very cute. I wouldn't peg him for WP though. He's built more for english work.


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## Gidji (Dec 19, 2008)

I don't want to burst the OP's bubble, but I cannot honestly see this horse in WP. He is a TB, with long legs and an ugly neck and I highly doubt that he would be able to hold his head set and maintain a jog and a lope. I highly doubt he can even lope, and even if he has been trained to, I bet it is an unbalanced ugly one. I know that sounds blunt and rude, but if WP is what you want to pursue this horse isn't your dream buy.

Jump4Heaven, you said you wanted to stand out in WP with him and I can tell you as sure as heck you would. He would not fit in and if you know anything about the state of WP, he most like wouldn't place. He wouldn't stand a chance against all the pretty little peanut rollers who are bred for WP.

However, he could be a great english horse.


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## Jump4heaven (Feb 26, 2009)

Noooo, his lope is so smooth. It's amazing. His headset isn't very bad, really.. He looks super ugly without a rider, though. He's very balanced.

Actually, where I live -- Peanut rollers don't even place.

The barn I go to has a judge who boards there, and she told me I'd be insane not to buy him, and my farrier told me I could probably re sell him and make tons of money.

I know I asked for critique, but I'm just telling you how he was when I rode him lol. He's getting a jog already, too, just nothing with a headset yet. But when I do ask him to set his head, it looks really nice.

Right now, I am leasing a big time pleasure horse, TRUST me, I do know what I'm talking about.  I just want to see what other people think, too.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

You already bought him, so why are you asking what others think?

You appear to have your mind made up that he's going to be a WP horse, even though he looks completely unsuitable for that discipline.

I wouldn't have paid $1,500 for him, either. You could have picked up an already trained adult horse for that amount or even less.

Good luck with him. I hope he turns out the way you want, although I think the odds are against you.


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## IllComeALopin (Apr 6, 2010)

Jump4heaven said:


> Right now, I am leasing a big time pleasure horse, TRUST me, I do know what I'm talking about.  I just want to see what other people think, too.


Define 'big time pleasure horse'
are you placing in big open shows, or just placing in little local stuff? :-|

I can't imagine anyone who is looking for a non-gaited, non-saddleseat (like arabians, morgans, saddlebreds ect) western pleasure horse not wanting a quarter horse :lol:.

He is cute though.

Not sure of his re-sale value becuase where I am Thoroughbreds are a dime a dozen. You can pick them un finished and green ANYWHERE, and the ones that are trained in low-level eventing, dressage, and or jumping with tons of show miles that are winning consistantly only go for $2000-$3000... becuase lets face it, TBs are easy to come buy.


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## Jump4heaven (Feb 26, 2009)

What about QHs? XD They are NO different. They are at auctions everywhere, and really, they are the most boring and plain breed.

He's completely suitable.  He may not look it, no. But after riding him it was clear to me that he is. My original thought was I am going to need another horse for western, but after riding him and speaking with my trainer, I decided there was no need.

And when I say big time, I mean a lot of A rated shows. I am thinking about congress but I heard it's a waste of time.

I dunno where you are from, but here -- Really there aren't many TBs. Just those boring Quarter Horses. You can have the loudest roan or the most beautiful paint but really, who cares? They have no feeling when you ride him, in my opinion. 

I'm asking for opinion, yes, but really, I already got opinions, AFTER I posted this thread, that he's pretty much perfect. I am going to get some riding pics sooner or later but it's kind of hard right now.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

If you already have your mind made up (and you certainly seem to) I don't see that it's worth the rest of us typing out our opinions at this point.


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## IllComeALopin (Apr 6, 2010)

Jump4heaven said:


> I dunno where you are from, but here -- Really there aren't many TBs. Just those boring Quarter Horses. You can have the loudest roan or the most beautiful paint but really, who cares? They have no feeling when you ride him, in my opinion.


I agree your mind is made up.

Your statment above proves to me what a serious western pleasure competitor you really are...


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## CecilliaB (Jan 21, 2010)

Well...I don't think it's really fair to post a photo of a 2 year old and ask for a current critique on him since it's hard to tell at such an awkward age. 

Anyway, looking at the photo you posted he looks down hill with a high head set which doesn't say western pleasure or even hunter to me. I'm not big into QH's but I don't think it's fair to call them a boring or plane breed, they are exceptional athletes in their own right. My TB can't pull the fast turns or sliding stops I see from allot of talented and well trained QH's. 

I do hope it all goes as you hope and he turned out to be your WP horse. Goodness knows there are better educated people on picking prospects then me. But if you do end up selling him I wouldn't expect to make a "ton" of money on what appears to be an average TB.


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## Jump4heaven (Feb 26, 2009)

Serious competitor? Heck no. Not me.

It's just my opinion that QHs are nothing more or less than ANY other breed, unlike almost every American seems to think.

No, I don't want more opinions is what I mean by "I got other opinions after I posted this". I can handle critique but people just saying the same thing over and over -- "You should just get a QH." "He's not good for western." I don't want to know WHAT he is good for I wanted to see opinions on confirmation.


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## draftrider (Mar 31, 2010)

I can't imagine paying that much for an untrained horse. Around here the average price for a well broke saddle horse is $300.00.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

Seriously, in the real WP world I can guarantee you he will not place unless you can get his head down and slow down. His build just does not say WP. And as for saying QH's are boring...are you kidding me? Yes, WP horses are calm and steady. If you want uppity, get a barrel horse. I guarantee you that you will not have a boring ride. WP = calm and quiet, which can also be chalked up to boring. Thoroughbreds just do not do well in WP type classes. Maybe low level local stuff, but you most likely won't get to the top.


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## thunderhooves (Aug 9, 2009)

Jump4heaven said:


> * I don't want to know WHAT he is good for I wanted to see opinions on confirmation*.


But conformation has everything to do with what he is/would be good for........


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

thunderhooves said:


> But conformation has everything to do with what he is/would be good for........


Exactly.

I'm not sure if he's been confirmed or not, heck I don't even know if he's a Catholic horse, but his con*for*mation screams, "I'm not a WP horse!" :wink:


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## Jump4heaven (Feb 26, 2009)

Haha and you what's sad? I was in advanced classes in school at 1 point. XD 

I will be getting riding pics sooner or later to prove everyone wrong no worries.


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## heyycutter (Sep 26, 2009)

i know its alittle off topic but i just had to say something
QHs are so NOT boring, yes some run of the mill qhs can be, but, a well bred, nicely groomed and taken care of qh can be really really flashy.
I have a golden palomino QH who can look boring plain yellow and dirty when hes outside, but he cleans up to be as gold as a gold coin and just as pretty.

ive never heard of TBs in WP but if your heartset on it, then be my guest, but, WP judges would love to see a well bred nicely groomed QH anyday


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## Gidji (Dec 19, 2008)

Jump4heaven said:


> Haha and you what's sad? I was in advanced classes in school at 1 point. XD
> 
> I will be getting riding pics sooner or later to prove everyone wrong no worries.


This forum isn't about proving people wrong. You asked for opinions and you got them. Conformation has everything to do with horse riding and honestly he doesn't look suitable for WP. Unless I see an actual video of this horse in a perfect headset, with great balance and flat kneed action, then I will not believe a word you say.

Quarter horses are in the WP ring because they excel at it. Not because they are quick to come buy and cheap. They are bred for it, thats why its QH dominated because thats what they're good at. If you feel you need a TB to stand out in the WP ring, then it really shows how much you know about the show circuit.


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## Jump4heaven (Feb 26, 2009)

When he's trained up, I will get a video no problem. And no, it isn't. But really, I asked for opinions, not 10 people saying the same things over and over? This is why I don't usually go on over crowded forums.

Yes, they are good at it. But seriously -- At the shows I go to, all you see is like 20,000 bay quarter horses acting the same. And a lot of the time, the more unique colored horses and breeds win.

They are trying to change the judging in my state so they can't just choose the slowest horses.

Oh, and he already has great balance.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

Pleasure isn't all about being slow. It's about rythym, balance, and showing how comfortable the horse is. It's about being nice and quiet, not flashy and uppity. TBs are generally not quiet. They don't choose winners on color in WP, and if they do where you are then something isn't right. If you're set on it, do it. But don't get butthurt when you don't win. Because that type of build tends to make a horse have a lot of knee action, something they don't want in pleasure classes.


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## thunderhooves (Aug 9, 2009)

Jump4heaven said:


> When he's trained up, I will get a video no problem. And no, it isn't. But really, I asked for opinions, not 1*0 people saying the same things over and over?* This is why I don't usually go on over crowded forums.
> 
> Yes, they are good at it. But seriously -- At the shows I go to, all you see is like 20,000 bay quarter horses acting the same. And a lot of the time, the more unique colored horses and breeds win.
> 
> ...


UGH! Thos ARE our opinions! if its the same thing 10 times, then you should have a good guess that we know what we are talking about. We don't post things we don't believe, or make up posts to gang up on you. Those are out honest opinions.
Please send me a vid of him in his training, or post it here, to confirm this thing.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Odd back....could be from being young


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## Jump4heaven (Feb 26, 2009)

kassierae said:


> Pleasure isn't all about being slow. It's about rythym, balance, and showing how comfortable the horse is. It's about being nice and quiet, not flashy and uppity. TBs are generally not quiet. They don't choose winners on color in WP, and if they do where you are then something isn't right. If you're set on it, do it. But don't get butthurt when you don't win. Because that type of build tends to make a horse have a lot of knee action, something they don't want in pleasure classes.


I know pleasure is not about being slow. I know about all of that. But a lot of the judges DON'T seem to, I swear. I had a Haflinger once who for sure wasn't pleasure material. But, I'd show just for fun, and we had the fastest canter -- And we actually won 1 time. Out of 9 people (Not that much but against a lot of QHs) and another time, we where on the wrong lead in English and won. 1 time I went in an english class with a western bit when I was a lot younger. I still placed 3rd out of 21, walk trot. It really depends on what the judge likes, even if it is the worst horse in the class. My Haflinger was 2, an behaving super bad, but that didn't matter, apparently, and I shouldn't have placed.

In my state they are trying to change judging. Some of the judges are completely just wrong, which I know isn't very smart of me to say, but 1 said everyone in the class was DQ'd because we didn't have 15 foot lead lines.. We asked the tack shop if they make those and they said no. But a lunge line was too long the judge said.. It was impossible for anybody to go in the class.


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## Gidji (Dec 19, 2008)

Jump4heaven said:


> When he's trained up, I will get a video no problem. And no, it isn't. But really, I asked for opinions, not 10 people saying the same things over and over? This is why I don't usually go on over crowded forums.
> 
> *Yes, they are good at it. But seriously -- At the shows I go to, all you see is like 20,000 bay quarter horses acting the same. And a lot of the time, the more unique colored horses and breeds win.*
> 
> ...


Of course they look and act the same. The judges do have a standard, or else all the horses would look extremely different and act differently. And its not the unique coloured horses or breeds winning, its the ones who are good at WP. I can tell just from what you're saying the only judges you've had experience with are little local shows. 

You trying to do WP with this horse would be like taking him in a reining class. He isn't suitable for it. He might do okay at HUS at local fairs, but this horse will not do well at higher shows.

Seriously take the advice from people on here. There are some seriously talented and smart people on here, who probably know a whole lot more about WP than you.

*Seriously just buy a QH who is already doing well, and buy a bright green shirt if you honestly feel the need to stand out in the show ring. Gosh! :|*


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## pepperduck (Feb 14, 2008)

When I was younger I rode a very green horse in a show. The horse bolted with me, he bucked with me, he was awful. I placed 6th out of 9, and I had no idea why so I went up to the judge and asked. She told me that the horse was awful but I rode it well so she wanted to give me a ribbon to say it was at least some good riding. I didn't get a ribbon because the horse was different. It was a small local show. 

My point is, that there are judges out there that will do that, but if you want to actually place well, you need a horse that will be suited to his job. This horse is not suited to western pleasure. I know you already got him, so maybe try to pursue an event that he will excell at and enjoy.


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## thunderhooves (Aug 9, 2009)

gidji said:


> of course they look and act the same. The judges do have a standard, or else all the horses would look extremely different and act differently. And its not the unique coloured horses or breeds winning, its the ones who are good at wp. I can tell just from what you're saying the only judges you've had experience with are little local shows.
> 
> You trying to do wp with this horse would be like taking him in a reining class. He isn't suitable for it. He might do okay at hus at local fairs, but this horse will not do well at higher shows.
> 
> ...


*amen!!*
AND besides the green shirt, get some of these polo wraps(do they even allow those?)
http://www.ssb4.net/users/28051/1-bright-pattern.jpg


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## ponyjocky (Apr 12, 2010)

Do nooooot buy this lol his butt is 5 inches higher than his withers xd


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## coffeemama (Jul 10, 2009)

Jump4heaven said:


> Would you buy this horse for 1,500 dollars?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If he rides nicely, has good training and is safe and has good mind and disposition, he may be worth the wait to see if he grows into that hind end. He is pretty downhill in this pic which means more stress to front end and may develop heavy front end plus since you mentioned you decided to buy him you will need a custom saddle built up behind shoulders to keep it from slamming into back of shoulders from being downhill. I had similar build (downhill) on my Appendix but not nearly as pronounced as your boy.
If he doesn't catch up to be more level when he's older just be prepared for early arthritis issues and other issues on front end and if you will jump him you'll need to keep these issues in mind while he is still so young and what you do with him now will shape his longevity as a useful horse. He is definitely not a western type. Perhaps alot of flatwork shows til he grows into his body before jumping. Good luck!


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## roro (Aug 14, 2009)

Honestly? That TB's conformation isn't going to do very well in any discipline from what I can tell. However, western pleasure is at the lower end of that. I suppose I'm just talking to a wall here since you've already made your mind up, but I find that purchase to be a poor decision on your part. I'd like to see videos.


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