# Tie the horse to the inner tube



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

That's a dang good question. I have also heard about people using that but I never have either.


----------



## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I did this technique when I taught my filly how to tie.

Non-breakable halter and lead (rope halter with attached lead).
Inner tube around solid object (part of the barn) and lead looped thru both ends of the inner tube and tied.

Sorry, no photos.


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I think it would probably be a good idea to have a solid post either against a good fence or a wall of some building. That would keep the horse from wrapping itself around the post.


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Non-breakable halter and lead (rope halter with attached lead). Inner tube around solid object (part of the barn) and lead looped thru both ends of the inner tube and tied.


Always, but if I put the tube say on my tie post it'll go all way down and there is a huge chance horse will be tangled (because the lead rope goes down too). That's the part I don't get when I read it on internet. How I put it around?


----------



## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

My tie ended up slightly above head level so there was not chance of getting caught. I was using the column behind the wall of the barn and it had solid wood up until that point so the wall prevented it from sliding down.

The time I had to do it on a post with out a wall I actually did two things to prevent it from falling down.

I put a small screw eye on the back of the post then took the inner tube, wrapped it around the post and tied it like you do when you start your shoe laces (half a knot I guess) at a point above the screw eye. Then ran the lead rope thru the ends of the inner tube. It never really loosened up enough to slide down but if it had loosened it being above the screw eye (that is on the off side from the horse) would prevent it from sliding down.


I love this set up. It taught her to stand patiently and the few times she decided to fight it it had just enough give but not near enough to let her get loose or anything.


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Thank you! I see your point now. I wish I could do something similar in my place, but there are no posts next to the barn, unfortunately. :-(


----------



## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Mine is not a post next to the barn, giggle, mine is the barn. The hubby person was not tickled pink when I tied her to the barn column either.

Barn is still standing and mare now ties like a dream.


I will try to take photos but they never come out well inside the barn.


----------



## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

The innertube technique is awesome. If they pull back it helps them with a little give so they wont strain their neck since they are learning how to tie. It's good for any horse. My horse tied with one and it helps her out a lot.


----------



## hhadavis (May 3, 2008)

I used a tree branch...layed the intube over the tree branch and put the lead rope thru both ends..made sure the tree branch was big enough to withstand the horse if pulled on and it was above is head, therefore taking out the possibility of him getting tangled...they learned to stand like a champ and also ended up using it to halter train a yearling that would set back so bad on the halter I was afraid she would hurt herself. I tied my gelding under a tree next to her(she was attached to him) so that she wouldnt really stress..and within a hour or so she was standing quietly under the tree (also cueing off of my gelding) and had no problems leading after that. THe inner tube has enough give to prevent hurting her neck. I had a a breeder suggest that to me because that is how she halter broke her young horses by standing them out next to their moms. Later used this method as a "timeout" when they became difficult, like giving my farrier a hard time during a trim. We live in Texas so if my horses are going to be tied out for a length of time.. the added shade is a benefit. I always ensured I could check on them, but made sure they didnt notice I was...weird I know.


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Folks, what kind of halter do you use then to do that inner tube tie?


----------



## hhadavis (May 3, 2008)

I have used a normal nylon halter with a lead rope that has the bull snap(I found the bull Snap clips are less likely to break than the bolt snap ones). I have also used the rope halters with the lead rope already attached..but not the one with the knots in the halter used in training. I did prefer the nylon halters for this. And dont leave alot of length on the lead rope...you want them to be able to shift around some but not enough to get into trouble, such as able to get their leg over the lead rope or something.


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I always use rope halters with the lead directly attached. No snaps or buckles or metal that will break under pressure. I also use a bowline? knot on the lead rope. It is one of the most secure knots and will never come untied on it's own but no matter how tight a horse pulls it, you can still untie it.

Here is how you tie one of those but instead of the boat part, put that around your post or through your innertube.


----------



## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

kitten_Val said:


> Folks, what kind of halter do you use then to do that inner tube tie?





alwaysbehind said:


> Non-breakable halter and lead (rope halter with attached lead).



Nothing that breaks.

If you have a nylon halter that the hardware is good enough that should work fine. And I agree, if you are going to use a normal lead rope go for a bull snap.

​


----------



## 5cuetrain (Dec 11, 2009)

The inner tube works nice but the Aussie tie ring seems to work better. It gives and doesn't pull back. Worked for me on lots of horses--and I mean rearin, flippin, halter breakin wildthings.

The next step in the evolution of trainin equipment. Its not too expensive either.


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

5cuetrain said:


> The inner tube works nice but the Aussie tie ring seems to work better. It gives and doesn't pull back. Worked for me on lots of horses--and I mean rearin, flippin, halter breakin wildthings.
> 
> The next step in the evolution of trainin equipment. Its not too expensive either.


I have one and it does not work anymore unfortunately. She just keep pulling it through no matter how tight you wrap + she may get tangled in rope as it gets longer.


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Thank you, folks! I'll look for the "bull" snap around as all I have just standard ones (and yes, I did have it break in past, even those big ones).


----------



## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Val, if your horse is pulling through the Tie Ring, she is liable to pull the innertube to the point of it snapping like a rubber band. Think of what a rubber band does when it snaps.

If your horse is pulling through the Tie Ring, your lead may be too short or you need to start from "0" again in her education.

The other option, and I'm going to take flack for this, is to tie her up with a nylon halter, stout lead, and a bull snap, (or a rope halter/lead combo) to solid post, tree, or trailer. It's a last resort but it's been used for centuries. Just don't leave her alone.


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

iridehorses said:


> Val, if your horse is pulling through the Tie Ring, she is liable to pull the innertube to the point of it snapping like a rubber band. Think of what a rubber band does when it snaps.
> 
> If your horse is pulling through the Tie Ring, your lead may be too short or you need to start from "0" again in her education.
> 
> The other option, and I'm going to take flack for this, is to tie her up with a nylon halter, stout lead, and a bull snap, (or a rope halter/lead combo) to solid post, tree, or trailer. It's a last resort but it's been used for centuries. Just don't leave her alone.


iride, 15 ft line is not really short. :wink: The problem is as long as it's longer then certain length she rears and may get tangled very easily and she keeps rearing and backing till the whole rope through. As for tieing her to the post/tree short enough and without any give it's not gonna work. Tried it last year - she burned her head all around to blood before I was fast enough to jump there to free her (I WAS around, just not that easy to get to the tie knot with the horse jumping around like crazy with the completely loose mind), halter kinda "burned" so I had to cut it off, and she still didn't learn the lesson. Plus she reared and hit herself between the legs with the post - $300 bill from my vet and month off riding. Thank God she didn't break any bones there! So I'm looking for alternative approach.


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

And just to give a little background...

She was tied with the rope 24/7 for the whole month in little cow stall in mud up to the knee just before I got her. "To learn how to tie". Being brought from wild and with the owner coming out every day there and dragging her on that rope around the stall. End result - she was getting antsy and I mean ANTSY every time I tied her, feels trapped, and you can see her mind just goes off the edge...

Also she is taught to give to pressure when I work with her on ground. Don't need a rope halter even - wide nylon is fine, she lows her head and turn left/right with the little effort on my side. As long as she's tied she completely forgets what means "give to pressure" and keep fighting no matter what.


----------



## rtdonell (Apr 17, 2010)

I have an idea. What about the auise tie ring wiht a VARY long rope. You will have to stay with her for this so pack a lunch. let her pull it out all she wants. She will only go as far as it takes for her to feel less traped. then when she stops pulling out real her back in and let her do it again. eventualy she should start feeling less traped and stop pulling.
I know almost nothing about any of this I am very new. So If there is a problem with my thinking on this one please let me know.


----------



## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Letting them pull out tons of rope sounds like a great recipe for a disaster with the horse getting tangled in the rope.


----------



## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

*Too much baggage to tie solid*

No wonder she forgets about yielding to pressure when you go to tie her!:-( I'd do what I saw PP do: You need a hitching rail for this, set out from anything so that you can walk on the side the horse isn't on: Wrap a long rope (22-24') a couple of wraps around the rail, so that when she forgets, & pulls back, it'll slide out, but you control it, with approach & retreat, so that incrementally she overcomes the feeling of entrapment. Gently bring it in, allow it to go out. When she's (finally:wink ok with it, you can have someone walk "scary" things up & down behind you (tarps, noise-makers, etc.).


----------



## rtdonell (Apr 17, 2010)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Letting them pull out tons of rope sounds like a great recipe for a disaster with the horse getting tangled in the rope.


Thats why I said you had to stay with her. I would never leave a horse with that much slack. Prity much the same thing Nothern Just said but with the tie ring instead of a hitching post.


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Northern said:


> No wonder she forgets about yielding to pressure when you go to tie her!:-( I'd do what I saw PP do: *You need a hitching rail for this, set out from anything so that you can walk on the side the horse isn't on: Wrap a long rope (22-24') a couple of wraps around the rail, so that when she forgets, & pulls back, it'll slide out, but you control it, with approach & retreat, so that **incrementally she overcomes the feeling of entrapment. Gently bring it in, allow it to go out. When she's (finally:wink ok with it,* you can have someone walk "scary" things up & down behind you (tarps, noise-makers, etc.).


Didn't work. :-( That's what I started with before getting the aussie ring. Letting her pull back and then bring her back to the rail or post or just even let her stay on distance (whether you wrap it or use the aussie ring) doesn't lead anywhere - she KEEPS pulling back again, and again, and again, and doesn't stop. I tried it for weeks, and was no change what so ever in her behavior. 

I tried basically ALL advices I could find all over the internet besides that inner tube one mainly because I can't set it up in correct way.


----------



## masatisan (Jan 12, 2009)

Maybe you could train her to ground tie?


----------



## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

Wow! Sorry to hear she never became ok with that! I'll have to go dig up my thinking cap & see if it gives me any ideas! Although, is she very food-motivated? If so, putting a treat on the rail sometimes (not every time, but enough to keep her guessing) might help. Then phase treats out when she's "hanging" at the rail better.


----------



## rtdonell (Apr 17, 2010)

Seem to me the bigest problem isnt fear or anything but the fact that there is no consaquences to her misbehaving by pulling. some how there has to be a way to make it uncomfortable on her when she does pull.


----------



## IllComeALopin (Apr 6, 2010)

kitten_Val said:


> iride, 15 ft line is not really short. :wink: The problem is as long as it's longer then certain length she rears and may get tangled very easily and she keeps rearing and backing till the whole rope through.


 
When I start a horse with the tie ring I use a 22 foot rope. I put the ring about 5 and half feet up.

With real problem pullers my trainer would stand and hold the rope to put some pressure on it (becuase many learned they could just pull and get away) and I stood behind them with a long lunge whip and tryed to smack them forward... after a while and much panic they learned that forward stopped the smacking and gave them a release. 

I still would not have trusted the horse 100% to never pull back again, thats a lesson learned and a VERY hard on to unlearn esp when rearing is involved.

But thats how we did it, and it worked for a handful of bad ones we got in.


----------



## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Although I have used this before. Still actually have the tube hanging in my barn I find that it is just easier and better to not use one. I have seen them brake and that is really bad. If the horse ends up getting loose it makes in harder in the long run. I teach all my foals to tie by starting teaching them how to lead and this starts the first week of life. Once it gets to the point I am tying them they already know about giving to pressure so it is very easy for them to get it. By the time they are weaned they tie like old pros.


----------



## SugarPlumLove (Dec 27, 2009)

This is what I did with my horse:

1. I tied her and then untied right away. I did this for about 5 minutes a day until she was good.

2. next I tied her for about 1-2 seconds. Do this also for a few days until she is fine again.

3. The next day I tied her for a little longer and so on...

Remember to go slow. This procedure teaches her that eventually she will always be let go.


----------



## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

*A few ideas*

Yes, that's it, because this horse thinks that she'll be tied *forever* whenever she's tied.


----------



## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

With that extra knowledge about her former owner, a lot of the advise you got could cause more trouble. It was mentioned about teaching her to ground tie - I do that with all my horses and prefer it to a hard tie (except when I'm on a trail ride and can't control the environment).


----------



## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

You could also try a body rope - Changes the dynamic and the horses ability to pull.


----------



## Ktibb (Mar 24, 2010)

You may also want to think about giving her a reason to tie. Another poster mentioned that there is no consequence for her pulling back, and that you need a way to make her uncomfortable for doing the wrong thing. 

Maybe go back to the tie ting or hitching post and be prepaired to catch the rope as she pulls it through. When she does put her to work and lunge her for a bit, get her huffing and puffing a bit then re-tie her. If she pulls back again put her straight back to work. It shouldn't tak long for her to figure out that being tied = getting to relax.

I also like the idea about tieing and un tieing quickly and slowly increasing the time, considering what she's been through. Maybe a mix of the two ideas might work?

Tie and untie right away
Lunge 
tie and untie
lunge some more
tie a bit longer
lunge
etc...???

Please keep us posted, I'm very interested to know how it works out.

Also, how much tension are you using when using the tie ring? it's possible to have enough pressure on it that it is nearly impossible to pull through.


----------



## rtdonell (Apr 17, 2010)

Ktibb said:


> Tie and untie right away
> Lunge
> tie and untie
> lunge some more
> ...


 
That sounds like the best idea yet. I would defanatly try that one,


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Thank you, All, for the suggestions! 

wild_spot, what is body rope? Do you mean the one Riosdad posted while back (going around the neck)? I'm still thinking about trying that one actually. 

I've never heard inner tube would break, but that's good to know. I was thinking about taking her to the local trainer to see if that'll help, but now I'm not very positive about it. However what he does is tie them with the inner tube in 8 ft high round pen and then use the stick if they try to pull, so they'd move to the sides (by the fence).

iride, I thought about ground tie, but I dont' know it'll work on her (BTW, my other one does, I usually don't tie her by the trailer). She doesn't stand still for a sec usually, just keeps moving moving moving unless after the really intense riding session (then she stands where told). Lunging and then give her a break to relax (normal approach) doesn't help much as she's happy to run and just gets more and more excited as she does, and last time I had couple trainers she just kept running for over hour (2 hours in one case), but still refused to stand still (moreover sometime offers to rear if you try to hold her in place). 

I'm not whining here like a little girl like some people may think :wink: , but she's pretty strange all over horse. This is not my opinion, I used like what? 4 trainers with her, all successful dealing with problem horses (and yes, they didn't believe me till they came out and met her in person). She's a nice horse, but I can tell she's "on nerves" almost all the time, even her front legs shakes when I keep her stand still (to put saddle and such) that's how much she wants to go go go.


----------



## IllComeALopin (Apr 6, 2010)

Just wondering... if you stand say 7 foot in front of this horse and add pressure rather quickly does the same reasction come about? Or does she just take a step further?

Usually unless the horse is good in every other way we just get to riding them every day for hours going all over backwoods PA. At the end of the day the horse is just dying to stand someplace in the shade nice and sleepy... but there are a few I knew who found the second wind to still pull even after an all day ride.


----------



## IllComeALopin (Apr 6, 2010)

kitten_Val said:


> She's a nice horse, but I can tell she's "on nerves" almost all the time, even her front legs shakes when I keep her stand still (to put saddle and such) that's how much she wants to go go go.


I would do an hours worth or more of groundwork with her until she can stand still without being ready to explode or figity. If energy is her problem you have to let that out... 

Did you ever have a trainer out to work with her on anything else besides tieing? Like just a general 30 days of ridin everyday for long periods at a time outside up and down hills loping nice and easy? :-|


----------



## aforred (May 12, 2010)

Have you found any exercises or anything that help her relax? 

I teach my horses one involving circles. When they get amped up, I ask them to lope a circle. I keep my legs off them and my hands out of their mouths. As they slow down, the circle gets smaller. After they break to the walk, I ask for a halt and let them stand. 

How long have you had her?


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

aforred said:


> Have you found any exercises or anything that help her relax?
> 
> I teach my horses one involving circles. When they get amped up, I ask them to lope a circle. I keep my legs off them and my hands out of their mouths. As they slow down, the circle gets smaller. After they break to the walk, I ask for a halt and let them stand.
> 
> How long have you had her?


I walk her to relax. :wink: That helps AND it's a punishment some kind (as she wants to go fast). Unfortunately that doesn't help with the tie anxiety. And yes, she's been with me for quite long time - 4 years already. She's ALWAYS been that nervous type of horse since I got her. 

Also she was through lots of ground work, so she lunges, disengages her hind, backs up, gives to pressure, etc. anything in ring.

And yes, she worked with the trainers (3) before not on tie, but some other stuff (including groundwork). All of them were not satisfied with the end result. She didn't become calm even after 2 hours of hard ground work.


----------



## Rule of Reason (Feb 11, 2010)

Do you NEED to tie her?

Is she a food-oriented horse?

If you stand in front of her and pull her toward you with the lead rope, does she come easily or does she try to set back?

Does she trust you? or humans in general?


----------



## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

Could she be in "survival" mode?

I'm just asking because Ice is great at basic ground work and he knows how to turn in while free lunging and all of that stuff, but he does it because he _knows that he should_, not because he wants to. He is more driven by his fear of the consequences (not instilled by me) of not doing something than by actually wanting to please me. 

Does she clench her jaw a lot? You can tell because the veins in her face will pop out.


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Rule of Reason said:


> Do you NEED to tie her?
> 
> Is she a food-oriented horse?
> 
> ...


I don't really need to tie her but it's handy on trails and (possibly in future) shows. She's not very food oriented so putting hay or grain (as it was suggested) won't take her mind away. Same goes with the trailer - she almost never eats hay there - she's too overexcited about what's going on. 

If I work with her I can pull her forward and she'll move forward as well as I can send her backwards. She's actually nice to work with on ground in a ring because she's not bossy (unlike my other horse, who does need a reminder on who's the boss). 

She trusts me and tolerates (up to the certain point) other people.  My farrier likes her as she usually tries to please (unless she's too much off balance) even though she doesn't like the whole procedure much.


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

justsambam08 said:


> Could she be in "survival" mode?
> 
> I'm just asking because Ice is great at basic ground work and he knows how to turn in while free lunging and all of that stuff, but he does it because he _knows that he should_, not because he wants to. He is more driven by his fear of the consequences (not instilled by me) of not doing something than by actually wanting to please me.
> 
> Does she clench her jaw a lot? You can tell because the veins in her face will pop out.


justsambam, I read your other posts about Ice (different threads), and in some of your posts he sounds very similar to her in his behavior. However I'd say most of the times she tries to please, not just because she knows she has to do something. Sometime I have a feeling that she's just so much in hurry to go to the ring that it's a 
reason for her being so antsy. All those problems with tie and/or holding her still are usually there just before I walk to the ring (during saddling). 

I've never paid attention to the clenching the jaw though. Is it because of the excitement or fear? I'll look in eve to see if she does it.


----------



## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

I would say more out of frustration? Ice clenches his jaw when he is physically close to a person...I'll say within 5 feet. Humans are meant to be in the saddle, not on the ground in his opinion. Out in the open where he is capable of escaping, he doesn't clench as much as if he is being cross tied, single tied, held by someone and worked on by someone else, etc. He is a shining example of a horse who caves under pressure. 

He also does not clench around mares and ponies. Geldings of his size he feels he needs to compete with, and he clenches around them.


----------



## Rule of Reason (Feb 11, 2010)

Have you ever tried clicker training with her? Sorry if you already mentioned that, I've lost track.


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Rule of Reason said:


> Have you ever tried clicker training with her? Sorry if you already mentioned that, I've lost track.


I didn't. Frankly I have very fuzzy understanding of what clicker training is.


----------



## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

kitten_Val said:


> I didn't. Frankly I have very fuzzy understanding of what clicker training is.


OH OH PICK ME PICK ME!!!!! *jumps up and down*

Haha I'm studying this in my intro to vet tech class right now. Here's what the book says......



> Clicker training can be used as a behavior modification or training technique. A clicker is used to signal to the animal that it performed the right behavior and will receive a reward. The first step is to associate the sound of the clicker with a reward. In this way, the clicker can be used to reward the animal when an immediate food reward can’t be given. The animal will associate the click with the result of a food reward.


There is a "conditioning phase" where you just click the clicker and then give a treat. You can test if your horse is conditioned or not by clicking and then not giving a treat, and seeing what kind of face you get, lol. Then every time you want something, you create some sort of cue, use it until the horse performs the desired response, click, and then treat! You do that until the horse has the cue down pretty well, then start giving treats for every two clicks, and then for every three clicks and so on. You can substitute "good boys" and getting petted for treats so that he learns to not be completely treat driven.


----------



## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

The "body rope" goes around the horse's girth and then runs through their halter. I tried to find a link on the web to show you a picture, but the only one I could find was on another forum and we aren't allowed to link to other forums. 

I found it using search words such as "horse setting back girth body rope" or something to that effect. I have never used it myself, but I have heard of it being used to teach a horse to tie.

Actually, my very first horse would set back until he broke loose, and I was kind of ignorant and bought one of those "Be Nice" halters which is a rope halter with little metal nubbies that go behind the ears. I tied him with that and he learned that setting back HURT and he would from then on try to set back occasionally but would come right back forward again and shake his head like "that hurt!" and then stand nicely tied. So it DID teach him to come forward to a release of pressure, but those halters are not for tying horses with, and I was just a newbie and didn't know any better. :shock: So don't do as I did, lol! 

Your guy sounds like a harder case than mine was though and he might just thrash until he gets badly hurt....not a good thing.

I think the "body rope," if someone can find a good link or picture, would be something to try.


----------



## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> wild_spot, what is body rope? Do you mean the one Riosdad posted while back (going around the neck)? I'm still thinking about trying that one actually.


Nope - That was a neck rope, which is also a good idea, but still attaches to the head.

A body rope is tied around the girth of the horse, with a knot under the belly, and the rope then comes up through the front legs, through the ring on the halter and ties to the post.










Some good discussion on it here: Western Horseman Forums > Horse Pulling Back

Another picture and another method here: Training Tips


----------



## 5cuetrain (Dec 11, 2009)

Sounds to me like there re bigger issues here than simply pulling back.

Find out what they are and solve them and the pulling back will stop.

If she has been subjected to half of what you say she has some pretty serious issues.


----------



## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

*Does clicker training work on a horse who's not food-motivated?*

Aside from that question, I have to say again that this horse believes that she'll be tied _forever_ if you tie her, because she practically was, with prior owner. So what Sugarplum said makes most sense to me, & solid-tie any way makes the least sense. I'm concerned that you're gonna hog-tie her & a disaster'll ensue. Making her work, with idea that hitching rail is a place of rest would help, too, unless she's one of those energizer bunnies who only get stronger with the work.


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

justsambam08 said:


> There is a "conditioning phase" where you just click the clicker and then give a treat. You can test if your horse is conditioned or not by clicking and then not giving a treat, and seeing what kind of face you get, lol. Then every time you want something, you create some sort of cue, use it until the horse performs the desired response, click, and then treat! You do that until the horse has the cue down pretty well, then start giving treats for every two clicks, and then for every three clicks and so on. You can substitute "good boys" and getting petted for treats so that he learns to not be completely treat driven.


That's interesting. I think I'll do more reading (I bet you have to buy clicker as I can't imagine of making one yourself).


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Northern said:


> Aside from that question, I have to say again that this horse believes that she'll be tied _forever_ if you tie her, because she practically was, with prior owner. So what Sugarplum said makes most sense to me, & solid-tie any way makes the least sense.* I'm concerned that you're gonna hog-tie her & a disaster'll ensue. *Making her work, with idea that hitching rail is a place of rest would help, too, unless she's one of those energizer bunnies who only get stronger with the work.


Yes, that's my concern too. Last thing I want is for her to get hurt. I'll try that step-by-step approach to see if it'll go anywhere.


----------



## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

kitten_Val said:


> That's interesting. I think I'll do more reading (I bet you have to buy clicker as I can't imagine of making one yourself).


Yeah, they're really popular with dog training, so I went to Petsmart and got one for ten bucks. Its actually really loud and annoying, but it has a fun little antenna thing to teach dogs/ponies how to "touch it" for treats also!

The woman at my barn who is doing clicker training with her Arab just makes a popping noise with her tongue. I can't mimic it for the life of me, so I'll just stick with my toy!


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

trailhorserider and wild_spot, thanks for explanation. I've NEVER heard about body rope before. Well, you just learn as you go I guess.  

Thanks everyone for all advices, warnings, and concerns! I really appreciate them, and I found the whole discussion to be very helpful as it gave me new ideas on how to deal (and NOT to deal) with this tough situation.


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

justsambam08 said:


> Yeah, they're really popular with dog training, so I went to Petsmart and got one for ten bucks. Its actually really loud and annoying, but it has a fun little antenna thing to teach dogs/ponies how to "touch it" for treats also!


Lol! Let us know how it goes. I always love to hear new experience.


----------



## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

I have seen it used being tied around the post, or used as the neck rope on the horse. I think either way works. 

Me, I just use a light pole right now, as I don't have any sturdy enough posts near my barn...I tie the horse up high enough to keep him from getting in to a real wreck, and if he pulls, he certainly won't pull a light post over! My 2 year old colt, decided about a week ago to wig out over being tied, and I moved him to my 'sturdy pole' and let him figure it out for himself. he pulled back a few times, and sat back pretty good on his rear, but he didn't hurt himself, and was eventually standing there like "okay, would you untie me now...I'm being good!" I went back to him and started cleaning out his feet, which was what I was tring to do when he wigged out in the first place...finished that, untied him, and led him back to the barn. He hasn't had an issue since...and I can flip the lead over the fence again and not have any issues. It was a windy day though, so I'm sure he was 'itchy' in the first place...but still!


----------



## SugarPlumLove (Dec 27, 2009)

*Try Lavender oil*

Something you could also try on her if she has energizer issues is to wipe some lavender oil under her nostrils or spray some in her stall or over her body. This scent has a natural calming effect just like it does with humans plus it makes her smell good lol


----------



## CanyonCowboy (Apr 30, 2010)

Well, my mare is a big one for pulling back. I thought I had her sacked out on it, and tied her to a low ring about 4 feet off the ground. In the few seconds I was out of sight, she managed to get the rope over her nose, and wrapped around both front legs. I came around corner of barn to find her tied with her face to her feet and freaking out. I had to cut the lead rope to release her. She learned through this experience to not only pull back, but then leap forward throwing her front feet up (and sometimes over). 

Here is what I have learned:

1) Make sure the distance from the halter to the rail is short. Yes, if she wants to pull back a short lead will make them react, but if it is longer than your forearm, they can (and will) get it wrapped over their head and/or legs.

2) I use a neck rope like the one described in this forum. She can pull on it as hard as she wants.

3) I would recommend a rope halter (not leather or webbing). I think the webbing halter (and I tried one) provides too much surface area across the poll, so there isn't an immediate consequence to pulling back. When I shifted to a rope halter to train her for tieing, some of the pull back intensity decreased. Also, right after a big pull back, I was working her with a halter and could tell her poll was tender, so - for me - this helped.

5) Body rope: I like them for training. Make sure they have a big hondo so they release immediately upon the horse giving. I've seen a good video of this on YouTube but couldn't find it. As discussed before, rope goes over girth area, through front legs and through the halter loop. When horse pulls back, they self-cinch and react (See #1 above). What is difficult about this rope for me is my mare's tendency to rear/leap forward after she sits down. If she gets the rope off to the side, or around a leg, my problems would increase exponentially.

6) I don't like the inner tube option. With my mare, it seems like if she gets any give at all, she goes harder and harder, so the "spring" of the tube just sets her off more.

7) One of my training challenges with this is she won't do it if I am standing anywhere close. So, I can't stand on the rail and work the rope, or do the "approach/retreat" stuff discussed earlier. So, I have to tie her and go hide and watch.

8) Learn to tie knots that can be released after lots of pressure. Bowline knots, etc. are designed so they can be worked loose after a big pull. Others tighten to the point they cannot be undone (or take a lot of time). Use easy to untie knots anywhere the rope may be pulled.

9) When I tie her, I use a clove hitch around the hitching rail (with a quick release loop), then tie a bowline around the rail at the end of the rope. If, somehow, she broke the clove hitch, she would still be tied.

10) Since I can't stand there and create a situation where she will pull back, I have to walk out of sight, hide and watch her. That means she basically has to work out the issue without my intervention. This makes it challenging and somewhat risky for her. I don't like it, but can't think of a better way. If I keep rushing to the rescue, I'm giving her the reward she is seeking (company), so she just pulls back harder the next time.

11) Have a very sharp, long bladed knife readily available. If you need to cut the horse loose, you will want to be able to do it in one movement. I like one that has sharpened serrations on it.

12) I think (knocking wood), that with these "techniques" I've solved my pull back problem, but my mare seems to have a knack at finding new ways to be challenging. Now she stands at the rail and digs to China. So next we add hobbles (after making sure she is trained to them).

I'm not saying or implying my way is "right." Its what I've had to do to get this crazy lady to stand still.

Couple of useful YouTubes:








 (4 Part Series)


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Wow! These are very detailed instructions, Cowboy. Thanks for posting!


----------

