# Ever heard of this?



## Picture Perfect (Oct 9, 2008)

That sounds terrible! Why would you break a horses tail just to win the blue?
Sometimes, people push things too far. :-(


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## XxXequinegrlXxX (May 24, 2008)

i've heard of it.. people just go wayy to far sometimes... 
horses should be treated like horses


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I don't know what discipline Lacy is used for but tail deadening is very common in the reining horse world. I have only seen a handful of NRHA horses who were able to move their tails. They usually give them a shot similar to novacaine in the nerve to the tail to deaden it. I have not ever seen them break a horse's tail to get the same effect but people will do anything they think they need to for that blue ribbon.


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## Maynme (May 15, 2009)

:evil: That is so cruel, rgggg!


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## Juniper (May 4, 2007)

TWH definitely get their tails broken. My old guy was a show horse in his youth and the vet pointed out to me where his tail had been broken. Very sad. Then they have to live in the stall with a two by four around the sides to keep the horse from rubbing the brace off that keeps it growing back in that bizarre straight up and then straight down look. How can anyone justify doing that to an animal for the sake of appearances is absolutely beyond me. My horse would have been so much prettier with his natural tail, it always looked odd.


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## RiddlesDarkAngel5 (Jun 2, 2009)

how awful. i'd never heard of people doing this, but honestly it doesn't surprise me. i just feel so bad for some of these show horses and what their owners put them through just for a ribbon


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

It sounds cruel but we humans do it to dogs too. Cropped tails and ears etc. 
I've never been in the show world. I know its way to easy, when big money is involved, to see an animal as an investment rather than a living thing. 
If anyone is to blame, its the show industry that OKs that sort of thing, or worse turns a blind eye. 
I think the numbing would be better, then its just temporary. I'm sure its more expensive though.

Not to upset anyone, but is this natural?


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## ivorygold1195 (May 27, 2009)

they do that to TWH to help get the big like its terrible!!!! i ride and show a TWH and i personally like the way they flag out the tails!


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## tempest (Jan 26, 2009)

The end result of a broken tail is very bad because when the horse grows old, the tail will flop off to one side and be permanently crooked. There are other less extreme methods to set a horse's tail or stop it from swishing.


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## Rebelappy (Dec 22, 2008)

i havent hueard of it but there agian isnt shocking cause people will goo to far for ribbons or money poor horse


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## Juniper (May 4, 2007)

If you have ever seen a puppy with it's ears cropped it is not a happy thing. Itch, bleed, trouble healing you name it.


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## RiddlesDarkAngel5 (Jun 2, 2009)

Juniper said:


> If you have ever seen a puppy with it's ears cropped it is not a happy thing. Itch, bleed, trouble healing you name it.


yep, i've seen it and its so uneccessary. i think floppy ears on a puppy are so much cuter. and half the time, the ears dont grow back right and the puppy has issues for the rest of its life and scarring


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## DakotaLuv (Mar 21, 2009)

That's aweful. I know for some show classes when a horse swishes its tail, like when they change leads, etc. they can get marked down. I know there are some people that use a shot in the horses tail right before the show to numb the tail so they didn't swish it, I was reading about it in some article, it will get you disqualified if the judges ever found out.


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## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

Was his tail broken or BLOCKED? Blocking is when someone injects something into the horse's dock that makes it hang 'quietly' (aka unable to swish, lift, etc). I hear of it a lot in the Western/English Pleasure or reining world. -where you get counted off for a swishing tail. It's illegal and supposedly you get penalized pretty heavily. However, I've seen several horses with this procedure done. Supposedly it's only a temporary procedure but one of the horses at our barn who was a reiner in her past life has had a lifeless tail for the 3 years she's been with us. Poor thing can't swish at flies and can barely life her tail to go to the bathroom. I think I read somewhere that they can also get pretty nasty infections when they get it done. Either way, it's sad and it's a poor 'quick fix'.


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## rider (Jun 7, 2009)

i look at it this way the tail is an extension of the spine those tail bones are part of the spine it shows clearly on an x-ray so the tail is not just some part that is bones it is conected to the very core of the creature and you go messing with the spine and how knows what can happen


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## RedHawk (Jun 16, 2008)

Vidaloco said:


>


Awwww! Poor puppy, he looks so sad! :-(


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## 1dog3cats17rodents (Dec 7, 2007)

Vidaloco said:


> It sounds cruel but we humans do it to dogs too. Cropped tails and ears etc.
> I've never been in the show world. I know its way to easy, when big money is involved, to see an animal as an investment rather than a living thing.
> If anyone is to blame, its the show industry that OKs that sort of thing, or worse turns a blind eye.
> I think the numbing would be better, then its just temporary. I'm sure its more expensive though.
> ...


 
It's really not at all the same in my opinion. Breaking a horses tail prevents it from using it's tail for things like a fly swatter. This negatively impacts the horses life. Cropping ears doesn't effect dogs lifestyle


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## barefoot (Jun 11, 2009)

1dog3cats17rodents said:


> It's really not at all the same in my opinion. Breaking a horses tail prevents it from using it's tail for things like a fly swatter. This negatively impacts the horses life. Cropping ears doesn't effect dogs lifestyle


I think the point is that dogs are being "re-sculpted" just as horses, it's the same thing. At least I think so. It's like cropping a human ear, but would you be okay with it?

That is horrible though, everyone should be left how it was, unless it needs medical attention or is putting an animal (which we are animals) through pain or making it uncomfortable. Natural.


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## Piper182 (Jun 18, 2009)

From what I've seen, it happens a lot in the Hunter world as well. I groom for a bunch of people at big shows and I was stunned when a bunch of them told me they had deadened the nerves in their horse's tails. More than a few of them couldn't lift their tails to poop. I felt so bad, I was washing tails like three times a day because they looked so miserable. The amount of fly spray I had to douse on them as well was insane. 

What's worse, when they sell the horse, they sometimes pay the vet off to tell the new owners it was something that happened at birth.


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

O.O

WTF??? That's horrible. That's even worse than tail blocking imo. 
You want the horse's tail to lay still in shows because it shows that the horse is calm and willing to listen to the rider. Judges mark down for a horse that swishes his tail in irritation or frustration or anxiety (or any other reason other than flies). But that's just insane. The owner should be reported for that.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Not to offend anyone, but I think thats a stupid rule and just opens a door for jerks (I would like to use much stronger language) to abuse their horses like this. Some horses are just tail swishers (even when they are happy). There are other ways to tell if a horse is anxious or irritated or anything else. Ha, they should start docking points if your horse can't swish it's tail. Test it by tickling it's legs with a feather! Ok, thats dumb  but it upsets me to see this done to any animal.


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## Tayz (Jan 24, 2009)

sounds awful! 
How can humans do something so cruel to horses. We don't break our noses to make them look better or to make them look less pointy...


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## Mira (Aug 4, 2008)

My trainer bought a horse that (unknown to him at the time) had an alcohol block to prevent her from moving her tail. Well, the "procedure" hadn't been done correctly and made it so that the mare couldn't poop and would colic. My trainer and his wife had to "manually" remove the waste (yep, with their hands) and put her on a special diet until it wore off enough for her to go herself. The stupid things people will do. >.<


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## reining girl (Jan 30, 2009)

people are ridiculous, and down right cruel, its so sad that they only want horses for the investment and not for the love of having one.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> Test it.


Some judges will go down the lineup and lightly poke the base of the tail with a ballpoint pen and disqualify those who don't react... it is rare but good on those who do test. The test of course isn't 100% but better than nothing!


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## dressagebelle (May 13, 2009)

Ya I know that they also break Saddlebred tails as well, just like some people put heavy chains, or a special solution on the fetlocks of saddelbreds and walkers, that abraid their skin to get them to pick their feet up higher. Personally speaking I'm not all gung ho all dogs should have their ears and tails done, but unless they do it after a few months of age, I don't think that it is that cruel if it is done right. When docking tails, its done within the first 3 days of birth, and is not a big procedure, and ears are supposed to be done within a few months of birth. I do know someone though who's dad had her dogs tail docked (the dog was at least a year old), because she would knock over his beer mug on the table by the couch. Because of the dogs age, it was a big procedure for the dog, cruel for the dog to all of a sudden be without a tail. It is generally better to have a tail though, as that is how you can tell how a dog is feeling, and its important to be able to read their body language.


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## PumpkinzMyBaby22 (Jul 5, 2009)

how awful. like some others have already said, some people just go way to far to win 1st place


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

JustDressageIt said:


> Some judges will go down the lineup and lightly poke the base of the tail with a ballpoint pen and disqualify those who don't react... it is rare but good on those who do test. The test of course isn't 100% but better than nothing!


Well at least some of them try. Its better than nothing.


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## Piper182 (Jun 18, 2009)

i wish all judges tested, that would make things sooo much better.


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

barefoot said:


> I think the point is that dogs are being "re-sculpted" just as horses, it's the same thing. At least I think so. It's like cropping a human ear, but would you be okay with it?
> 
> That is horrible though, everyone should be left how it was, unless it needs medical attention or is putting an animal (which we are animals) through pain or making it uncomfortable. Natural.


 well thats kinda like circumsism in humans. not nesscesary, I understand it's a religious thing, but all the same.


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## Piper182 (Jun 18, 2009)

So I was reading through the APHA rule book today for work (don't ask, half of it is like stereo instructions) and I noticed that it says very clearly that if a horse's tail doesn't move through an entire class, regardless of the class, the judge is supposed to check. i think it even said a steward should check it out if they see it on the ground. I was happy to see that they don't take it lightly. Plus, if they find out you did, both you and your horse are immediately no longer registered


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## goldilockz (Aug 1, 2008)

I think unnecessary physical alterations (aside from cosmetic like trimming hair, etc) in horses *and *dogs sucks. I have had pits and rotties in the past without docking, and I would not break something on a horse just to win a ribbon.

But to some, it's necessary. I just try not to associate with those types too much.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

goldilockz said:


> I think unnecessary physical alterations (aside from cosmetic like trimming hair, etc) in horses *and *dogs sucks. I have had pits and rotties in the past without docking, and I would not break something on a horse just to win a ribbon.
> 
> But to some, it's necessary. I just try not to associate with those types too much.


We need a, "What she said", smiley here. Goldilockz summed it up nicely for me. I am not a fan of cosmetic alteration/unNECCESSARY procedures.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

I agree ^^^ and from what I've seen tail docking isn't painless even if it is done correctly when they're 3 days old. 2 forcepts break the tailbone and they cut it with a scalpel. Then the wound is glued and sometimes stitched shut. The reaction you're getting from those pups shows that it is anything but painless (I worked at a clinic and would sometimes hold the pups for tail docking and dewclaw removal).


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

I knew of one horse when I was younger, who had a broken tail, and it had been broken on purpose, to stop him from tail wringing in the ring. The owners that had him at the time I knew him hadn't done it, but the owners before they bought him had...

I think it's cruel and unnecessary, like pain blocking, or soring a horse...just for a ribbon or two...seriously...


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## Whipple (Feb 2, 2009)

Ive had pups at 1 day docked and dewclaws removed. I'll never do it again.

I want to show Dobes one day, and they will all be natural. I know that they will not place as highly, and that is sad. Just because they have a tail and ears. I want them to look like the sweeties they are, not some vicious guard dog.

I am also VERY much against human circumcision. I watched a few videos of babies being cut. One father video'd it and his baby was screaming in pain the entire time. Even with pain killers, how could you do that to your own child!?

Sick!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Piper182 said:


> So I was reading through the APHA rule book today for work (don't ask, half of it is like stereo instructions) and I noticed that it says very clearly that if a horse's tail doesn't move through an entire class, regardless of the class, the judge is supposed to check. i think it even said a steward should check it out if they see it on the ground. I was happy to see that they don't take it lightly. Plus, if they find out you did, both you and your horse are immediately no longer registered


I wish it worked like that. Horses with deadened tails are more prevalent than natural ones. One of the reasons that the horses wring their tails (especially in reining) is excessive spur use and harsh bits. Those that can move their tails, watch and it gets really bad at flying lead changes and during spins and back ups. It is amazing that this is one more training issue that they think can be cured with drugs.


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## Shalani (Jul 16, 2009)

Along the same lines of cruelty but for the opposite affect I recalled being told about Gingering So i copied and pasted some info for you all. 
PEOPLE ACTUALLY MAKE THIS PRODUCT !

Today this practice still occurs, now called *gingering the tail* or simply *gingering*. Today the purpose is mostly to make the horse carry its tail high, and to a lesser extent to encourage the horse to move in a lively fashion. It is a particular problem for the halter horses in the Arabian and American Saddlebred breeds, where high tail carriage and animation are desired traits. However, nearly all horse show sanctioning organizations in the USA & Australia explicitly forbid it and have the authority to disqualify a horse abused in this way.
While some areas may be less than rigorous about enforcing the rule, tests such as "ginger swabbing" may be done to detect the presence of ginger in the anus. While it is not entirely reliable, concerns of being detected by anal tests has led to some horse handlers placing the raw ginger in the vagina, if the horse is a mare.[3] A modern veterinary dictionary notes that vaginal placement is more effective than anal insertion, because the ginger is likely to remain in place longer, and concludes gingering "would be considered to be an act of cruelty in any civilized community."[4]


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

It's amazing, isn't it, the things we come up with to use on and do to the animals we "love"?


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Whipple said:


> Ive had pups at 1 day docked and dewclaws removed. I'll never do it again.


 
I guess I don't have a problem with dewclaw removal even though it is very painful, but it serves an actual purpose, not just to make the dog look a certain way. Dewclaws are usually removed to prevent them from being ripped off when the dog gets older. Especially if it is a hunting dog running through brush. In non-hunting dogs it can be important if the breed or line is known for having dewclaws that protrude. Having a dewclaw ripped off is incredibly painful for an older dog, so I guess I look at having them removed at a very young age (1-3 days) as the lesser of two evils. But again I have no paitence with tail docking, ear cropping, or any of the other purely cosmetic procedures that we inflict upon animals.


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## barrelracingchik101 (Aug 15, 2008)

i think my horse had his tail broken but he can still use it but it always stays to one side. when i got him i just thought he just held his tail weird. but the more i saw him use it i thought for shure it has been broken. they were going to have him trained for reaining but it did not go so good durring the training so the stoped. the same people who broke him used a thin tristed bit and pulled realy hard on his toung and split it. people are crazy.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

themacpack said:


> It's amazing, isn't it, the things we come up with to use on and do to the animals we "love"?


I don't believe that people who use things like this really love horses. They are simply a means to an end, the end being a blue ribbon. It really makes me sick that those people can't just love horses for being what they are. Instead, they have to make all these changes that make them more beautiful in our eyes, even if it is not best for the horse. :-x


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

smrobs said:


> I don't believe that people who use things like this really love horses. They are simply a means to an end, the end being a blue ribbon. It really makes me sick that those people can't just love horses for being what they are. Instead, they have to make all these changes that make them more beautiful in our eyes, even if it is not best for the horse. :-x


Oh, I agree completely


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

smrobs said:


> I don't believe that people who use things like this really love horses. They are simply a means to an end, the end being a blue ribbon. It really makes me sick that those people can't just love horses for being what they are. Instead, they have to make all these changes that make them more beautiful in our eyes, even if it is not best for the horse. :-x


I think that's kind of what her point was 

I agree with both of you. Very sad


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## Piper182 (Jun 18, 2009)

I once rode a horse who had once had an ear tag. He hadn't been on a range, there weren't millions of other animals, the old owner just thought it could be like a dog collar in case he got lost. He thought halters with tags were distasteful... the poor boy had a huge hole in his ear. That couldn't have been a fun ear piercing experience. We used to joke that if we showed him we'd name him something piratey and put an earring in it to dress it up.


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## Qtswede (Apr 16, 2009)

Gingering? Wow. So, if the swab isn't accurate, what do they do? Sniff test? 
For those found guilty of it, couldn't they ginger the offending people for perspective? Just a thought.


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## Whipple (Feb 2, 2009)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> I guess I don't have a problem with dewclaw removal even though it is very painful, but it serves an actual purpose, not just to make the dog look a certain way. Dewclaws are usually removed to prevent them from being ripped off when the dog gets older. Especially if it is a hunting dog running through brush. In non-hunting dogs it can be important if the breed or line is known for having dewclaws that protrude. Having a dewclaw ripped off is incredibly painful for an older dog, so I guess I look at having them removed at a very young age (1-3 days) as the lesser of two evils. But again I have no paitence with tail docking, ear cropping, or any of the other purely cosmetic procedures that we inflict upon animals.



Sorry, i should have been more clear. The tails I would not do again. The dewclaws yes. I have seen a dog with a ripped dewclaw, not fun.
The tails and dewclaws healed quickly, within a coupe of days they barely had scabs. But the intial pain, not worth it.

Oh, and if anyone is interested, the vet tech used heavy duty dog nail clippers. Then she put a cream on the end.


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## goldilockz (Aug 1, 2008)

smrobs said:


> I don't believe that people who use things like this really love horses. They are simply a means to an end, the end being a blue ribbon. It really makes me sick that those people can't just love horses for being what they are. Instead, they have to make all these changes that make them more beautiful in our eyes, even if it is not best for the horse. :-x


I agree. And to me, a horse swishing its tail around (like they do while grazing) is really pretty. I love to see the long hair flying in the wind like that. 

People suck.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Whipple said:


> Sorry, i should have been more clear. The tails I would not do again. The dewclaws yes. I have seen a dog with a ripped dewclaw, not fun.
> The tails and dewclaws healed quickly, within a coupe of days they barely had scabs. But the intial pain, not worth it.
> 
> Oh, and if anyone is interested, the vet tech used heavy duty dog nail clippers. Then she put a cream on the end.


 Sorry, I've had a couple of people get a little crabby about dewclaws before.


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