# Forging?



## minstrel (Mar 20, 2012)

So, Geoff has learned a lot since I got him - we have a mostly soft mouth, we move off the leg, we've got the start of laterals, we have a balanced walk, trot and canter and we are acing our walk/trot and walk/halt transitions. However, Geoff is still very on the forehand, and whilst we've been doing lots of work on engaging his hindquarters, typical OTTB has very little back muscle and finds it hard. We have been working on it, and he can engage for short periods, but does find it hard.

However, I have found that whenever I let him trot out (he's 17hh and all legs, so has a HUGE trot when he trots out) he forges. My instructor says that because he has a relatively short back and very long legs, when he gets on the forehand he forges. However I did an internet search (deadly things) and it told me all sorts of things about forging being due to stifle problems/bad riding? He only forges in the trot, and only when I'm riding him.

My questions are: is it just because of his short back and being on the forehand or am I doing something wrong? Is it something a horse grows out of once as their training improves? 

I do want to event Geoff, and whilst he'll never have to reach a high level of dressage I am one of those eventers who is uber picky about their dressage... so how far is something like forging going to affect that?


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Your farrier can help his forging by squaring off his toes at the back to help his break over.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

interesting that Wares said that. My farrier says the opposite; increase the breakover of the front feet so that they move out of the way of the back feet faster, so the back don't clip them (forging).

anyone else?


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

You could be right Tiny, but I am pretty sure a farrier can correct forging squaring off a hoof somewhere!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## minstrel (Mar 20, 2012)

Is it as simple a fix as farriery? That's a weight off my mind! I'll speak to my farrier.


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## wetrain17 (May 25, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> interesting that Wares said that. My farrier says the opposite; increase the breakover of the front feet so that they move out of the way of the back feet faster, so the back don't clip them (forging).
> 
> anyone else?


Is there an article or recent study on that? I'm curious to know. I've always thought like wares on this one, but that could just be an old school method. 



minstrel said:


> Is it as simple a fix as farriery? That's a weight off my mind! I'll speak to my farrier.


Possibly, but not always. That should be your first step in figuring out what is going on. Like I said, I've always thought squaring off the toe would fix it. My guy will forge with he gets long, riding or not. A visit from the farrier usually does the trick.


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

Farriers can definitely help with forging. My mustang had similar problems before he got trimmed for the first time (I got him as a wild critter and it took me about 3 months before I could handle his feet reliably). Once his feet were trimmed properly a time or two, it wasn't an issue any more.

By the by, I've also heard that increasing the breakover of the front hooves allows them to move out of the way of the rear hooves better. Really though, I think it's best if all of the horse's hooves have a good breakover.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Got any pics of his front feet? I'm guessing you have some very long toes there. Correctly trimmed front feet fix most forging problems.


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## minstrel (Mar 20, 2012)

MyBoyPuck said:


> Got any pics of his front feet? I'm guessing you have some very long toes there. Correctly trimmed front feet fix most forging problems.


Haven't got pics but no, his feet aren't long. He was trimmed and shod four weeks ago, and my farrier is excellent, he's the local corrective shoeing expert as well as doing lots of farriery training for the new apprentices... whether there are things he can do to fix it is one thing, but his feet certainly aren't in bad nick... He's due out in two weeks, so I'll drop him a text and let him know what the problem is so we can do something about it.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Tell your farrier about the forging and ask if he can help?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Over reaching, yes farriery can help. Forging is not so easy.
The horse has to be ridden uphill and develop the strength that he can move that way all the time. Lots of horses will forge at some point in the training. It would be worth it to take a few lessons or a clinic with a good dressage coach.

Good luck!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## minstrel (Mar 20, 2012)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> Over reaching, yes farriery can help. Forging is not so easy.
> The horse has to be ridden uphill and develop the strength that he can move that way all the time. Lots of horses will forge at some point in the training. It would be worth it to take a few lessons or a clinic with a good dressage coach.
> 
> Good luck!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, he is finding using his back and his hind quarters really hard - he *can* do it, but takes a lot of convincing! Fingers crossed then as he strengthens up and becomes more consistent this will improve. Will look into the lessons.

I have spoken to my farrier, who has said he will take a good look at his feet next time he sees him and see what he can do to help him out, but that he isn't sure that trimming will make much difference knowing how he's trimmed his feet previously. So fingers crossed but we'll see.

Also a query: what is the actual difference between over-reaching and forging?


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Waiting for Anabel's answer, I am ignorant here as I thought when the horse overreached, it was forging.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## minstrel (Mar 20, 2012)

waresbear said:


> Waiting for Anabel's answer, I am ignorant here as I thought when the horse overreached, it was forging.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I assumed he was over-reaching until my instructor told me otherwise - she told me to lose my over-reach boots too as they wouldn't make a difference. I had never heard of forging before she told me that was what he was doing. Hence why I asked about it here!! Would love to know.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I think (NOT 100% sure, but I _think_) over-reaching is what it's called at the walk when the horse basically clips the bottom of his front foot with the toe of the hind foot, making a "clicking" sound from where the shoes hit. I think they change it to forging when it's also happens at the faster gaits and the horse has a tendency to hit his hind toe _above_ the shoe level on the front foot, often pulling shoes or causing injuries on the heel bulbs and sometimes even the pasterns of the front feet.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Nope, overreaching is when the horse reaches over the front foot. This is how shoes are pulled, how they get nasty cuts on their heel bulbs etc.
Forging is when the horse's back foot smacks into the front foot on the way up. The front end doesn't get out of the way of the back end fast enough.
With overreaching the horse will have physical injury, of you might hear a tinking sound. With forging you will hear the "WHACK" sound of the back shoe hitting the front shoe.
Here's a picture of forging, there's no good ones of over reaching on Google.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Forging is when the horse strikes the sole of his front foot with the hind toe
Over reaching is when the horse strikes the front heel with its hind toe - often causes actual injury 
Both might be a lack of balance problem so could improve as he gets stronger, could be that he still tends to work more on his forehand and will improve as he builds up muscle in his back end
Very short back ratio to very long legs conformation might be a permanent issue.


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## minstrel (Mar 20, 2012)

Thanks very much for clarifying that. Yeah, there hasn't been any injury to front heels at all or any shoes pulled/loose, and I'm hearing that proper 'whack' sound, that combined with what my instructor said I'm thinking he's forging rather than over-reaching.... however he didn't do it on the lunge tonight at all so I couldn't see for myself. Thanks for all the info/suggestions, will make a few changes and see where we get!


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Okay, totally understand the difference now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

minstrel said:


> Thanks very much for clarifying that. Yeah, there hasn't been any injury to front heels at all or any shoes pulled/loose, and I'm hearing that proper 'whack' sound, that combined with what my instructor said I'm thinking he's forging rather than over-reaching.... however he didn't do it on the lunge tonight at all so I couldn't see for myself. Thanks for all the info/suggestions, will make a few changes and see where we get!


 Good luck with him - I used to see this quite a lot in the tall youngsters as they were still sort of growing into their front end and into themselves if you get what I mean, they are like awkward gangly teenagers for what seems like ages
He's such a lovely horse - and he's called Geoff too what could be better than that!!!


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