# Mulefeather and Sully – Daily Tales of a Driving Draft Pony



## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

I decided to create this thread to detail the journey of getting to know my first horse in almost 6 years, who I just purchased this past weekend:

Introducing “Hudson River Runway”, AKA Sully! 









He is a 10 year old Haflinger gelding standing 14.3 hands. Named due to the fact that my boyfriend is a pilot who also lives along the Hudson river, and when I saw him he reminded me of the big blue monster from Monsters, INC – just a big, hefty, workaday kind of guy with a little bit of a gruff exterior. I also greatly admire Captain Chesley Sullenberger, the pilot who landed US Airways Flight 1549 in the Hudson River in January of 2009. 

A little about me: 

I’m 33, divorced, and live in South Central PA, where I just bought my first house. I work in fraud prevention for a large retailer. I’ve been riding off and on since I was about 15, when I got a summer job just to pay for my own lessons. Since then, I’ve owned 3 horses and worked with many more of all types and sizes – QH, Morgans, TBs, STBs, Haflingers, drafts, minis, and mules. I started out as a Western trail rider, and I started learning how to drive in earnest this past spring/summer with my current trainer. I progressed very quickly up to driving huge Belgian draft horses. I love driving and I feel like I found “my sport”. 

My last horse was actually a 16hh, 1600 lb draft mule named Buddy, who was the sweetest and gentlest creature I have ever met. He helped me get through a very dark time in my life, when I was suffering from extreme PTSD and agoraphobia due to a terrible car accident where I very easily could have been killed. He helped me to be able to drive at night, and gave me a reason to leave my house by myself for the first time in several months. Sadly, Buddy passed away in January of 2011 due to a severe colic, during a horrible snow storm. Since then, due to my divorce, several moves, and losing my previous job, I wasn’t able to own another horse – until this previous week. 

About the horse: 

My trainer knew I was looking for my own horse, and she happened upon a Haflinger gelding available through a very small rescue group in Ohio- 4 horses in the barn, including one I was driving this summer, have come from them, so Sully makes #5. This is a small group of three women who buy horses at the Sugarcreek Auction, one of the biggest slaughter sales in the country. Most horses who wind up in the meat pen here ship directly to Canada for slaughter. Sully, formerly named “Kong”, was an expensive purchase – weighing in at an estimated 1200 lbs, Sully was a valuable commodity for the meat people, so they spent way more than I paid for on him. He’s come to me with his feet, teeth, shots, and training done, but needing to lose about 100-200 lbs. I’m actually thinking that he weighs closer to 1300-1400 lbs right now. 

The rescuers were not able to see if he drove since they had no access to a cart, but coming from an Amish-heavy area, a Haflinger that is older than 3-4 has a better-than-average chance of being broke to drive. He supposedly had harness marks on him at the auction, and they have trouble getting him to canter under saddle (Amish harness horses are trained never to canter when working). So, with those clues we are going forward with our steps. If he takes harness, we’ll ground drive him and learn what he knows. If that goes well, we’ll hook him to a two-wheeled cart and have my trainer or her husband drive him first. 

Eventually I do want to ride him, but I think he and I both need to get in better shape before that happens.


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## CaliforniaDreaming (May 8, 2011)

Oh he's cute!!

As an owner of a Haflinger who rides (and drives though that is on hiatus for who-knows-how-long) ... totally subbing for this.


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## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

Woohoo!


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

YAYYY a picture!!  Can't wait for more. Also can't wait to hear about the journey with him!!! Subbing this. 

So cute! Congrats!!


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## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

So very excited!! Sully is just adorable, and he's going to be even nicer when he sheds those pounds!


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## Prairie (May 13, 2016)

Congratulations on the cutie! I love driving after owning a Belgian gelding for over 16 years----it's a blast---plus training a few smaller horses to drive! Also ask about driving clubs and shows in your area---how close are you to Devon?---since they can be good sources of information.


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## Drifting (Oct 26, 2011)

Can't wait for more pictures! Congratulations on Sully! He sounds (and looks) like a doll.


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## BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 (Apr 11, 2016)

Congrats on getting him! He's a very handsome boy so looking forward to updates about him!


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Congrats! Sully is great. Can't wait to hear more about your adventure.


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

I forgot to mention in my bleary state this morning that Sully has an umbilical hernia. It's small and a little hard, but not hot or swollen. He let us handle it fine and showed no signs of pain. It's not in an area that will interfere with the girth or harness. 

It should have been corrected when he was a foal, but we're about 10 years too late on that score. The vet is coming out in December, so we're going to have her check it and make sure it's not something we need to have fixed. He's survived 10 years with it so far, so it may be a case of "do nothing". I just want to make sure that it won't cause an issue as he ages.


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

Yesterday was a tough day for me- it was the 2nd anniversary of my grandmother's sudden, unexpected death in 2014. I was very close to my grandmother and I called/talked to her a lot, and I still sometimes get the urge to do so. So between that, sleep deprivation (I have an anxiety disorder and it has been running STRONG being in a new house, all by myself for the first time in 10 years), and the insanity of the election, I decided I needed some pony time yesterday. 

Our barn doesn't have lights- it's a pretty no-frills sort of place, but the barn owners are very conscientious and kind, there is basically zero drama, and they manage to keep costs down a lot by doing things like this. 

Sully is doing really well so far- BO says he's an easy keeper and keeps a clean stall. I spent some time just petting and talking to him last night, and he got a couple of apples courtesy of one of my team members that I supervise for project stuff, and he was VERY pleased with that. I'm thankful that even with food being offered, he's not pushy or lippy. He reached out to see if I had any more goodies hiding in my jacket pockets, but he is respectful of space. 

I notice he's pretty sensitive to body language. I think in the past, he's had people grab or smack at his face and his halter, because if you reach for his head too quickly, he'll turn his head around and almost point it at his opposite shoulder. He is expecting *something*, because his breathing got harder and his eyes got bigger when I entered the stall. I've made a mental note to work on that, and once I have a better light source I'm going to start doing some clicker work with him. 

I did some work on touching him confidently but gently, and getting him to realize that I wasn't going to smack him or grab at him. He's very sensitive to hands being raised or verbal commands being given, he will back on command on just a voice cue. I did get some nice big sighs and head drops when I spent some time just scratching his withers and chest, so I'll call it good! He's not totally mistrustful, but he does seem to have an "OH god what's about to happen to me?" look when he's approached too directly. I know part of that is not knowing us well, so it'll take time. A small goal is to get him to let me reach for and handle his face without a halter, without him pulling his face away. 

Saturday or Sunday, I'm taking Boyfriend up to meet him while we've got some light and nice weather. I'd like to get Sully out into the round pen and do a little walk/trot, because he definitely needs the exercise. Then maybe we can experiment with targeting


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Awww, I have anxiety disorder too. It can be very difficult to deal with. I feel your pain. 

Glad there's no barn-drama at your barn. That's one of the best things ever, too many places have nonsense! Glad Sully is adjusting & doing well in his new home. You will be gaining his trust in no time, can't wait to see how everything goes. Your boyfriend will like him too! Sully is going to be spoiled rotten! <3
Roundpen work is GREAT! I wish we had a roundpen at our barn. They're very useful.


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## NavigatorsMom (Jan 9, 2012)

Congratulations on Sully! He looks so sweet and I can't wait to hear more about him.


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

I'm excited - Boyfriend may be bringing his camera equipment and taking some nice shots of Sully when we go up to the farm  It may be Sunday morning at this point since my dad wants to build some kind of box for my washer and dryer to sit on, and I'm sure poor Boyfriend is going to get roped into it.

And how the heck did I wind up with 5-6 rubber curries in my grooming box? They seem to have multiplied  

Oh, and I'm ordering these! I feel like it would be nice for when I'm coming by at night and can't do a whole lot.


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## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

Yay pictures!!! I can't wait to see them! Good luck with the washer and dryer pedestal! Hope it goes smooth!

Those gloves look fun!


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

Sunday was definitely an interesting day! Boyfriend and I went up to the stable and he did get some great shots – however, a number of them wound up being action shots  He’s posting them on his DropBox account later, so I’ll post them when I get them! 

I’m going to chalk Sully’s behavior up to still adjusting to the new environment, new owner, new herd, etc. First, he didn’t want to be caught. I made the mistake of trying to walk him down, but BO’s husband came out and helped me get him. I admit I haven’t had issues with hard-to-catch horses before, so one new learning experience for me! 

Got him in the aisle of the barn where we normally groom, and he was NOT happy. Screaming for the other horses, refusing to stand still, wouldn’t even let me brush him. Our first discussion was because he threw a tantrum and did a pawing/striking movement. NOT OKAY. Got after him for that and you probably could have heard me in all 3 barns . I decided that fine, if he wanted to move, we’ll go someplace where we can move. He’s definitely herd-bound right now and those “great ground manners” suck. 

But, I stick to my guns. Even if he's scared, I set high expectations. He does NOT get to act like a butthead. 

Took him up into the arena. He continued to scream and fuss, and try to invade my space – so he got put to work. Each time he screamed or acted up, I made him move his feet. I worked him pretty hard to the point where we were almost doing a mini-lunge session. But we finally got to the point where he started to give, and I gave him the chance to relax. It took about 15-20 minutes to get to a good point where he was softening. One of the other boarders has a little black mini mare that was turned out in the arena (she is INSANELY hard to catch and fearful), and she was following us around the arena too. She’s cute as a button, but I wish she wasn’t in there so I could be sure it wasn’t her presence that helped him let down from being herd-bound. 

Once he was in a better mindset, I worked on getting him to drop his head. I’m sure the tiny plants growing in the arena helped with that, though. It definitely helped put him into a more relaxed state. After that, worked on leading and paying attention to me, not getting ahead of me, and stopping when I stop, as well as not invading my space. He got a few elbows in his ribs because he kept wanting to walk DIRECTLY beside me. We led around barrels, and over some poles that were sitting out in the arena, and did a lot of backing-up practice. He was listening and softer by the end, so I decided to end the session there. We walked out to the grassy area where some of us park our cars and did some hand-grazing. Boyfriend was able to safely pet him and feed him some carrots, and then he got turned back out. 

I’m proud that even though I felt anxious (and I admit, I was having some PTSD about Elsa-the-insane-Haflinger from 12 years ago, feeling like “Oh god what if I got another crazy one”), I was able to get him to a point where we were both relaxed. 

When I got home, I got in touch with an old friend from HS who now owns her own boarding and training business. She’s done a lot of work with rescue horses (her previous job before her own business was head trainer for a large rescue, and she’s won several Trainer’s challenges for rescued horses), and also a lot of work with Haflingers. She offered to come up next Sunday and evaluate Sully, and also teach me some more tools to work with him. I’m excited to know more, and it’ll also be a great way to catch up with an old friend!


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

YAYYY can't wait to see pictures. Action shots are awesome too!
Good you are sticking to your guns and not letting him be a doofus! Important for you both to be relaxed as a unit, together! Just keep working at it! 

That's exciting, and will really benefit you & Sully. It's all about who you know! She will definitely help you, there's always more to learn.

Keep the happy updates coming!:cowboy:


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

You are so, so lucky. I leased a Haffie when I sold my inappropriate gelding who caused a big setback in my confidence level after not having horses for years. I used her for 3 months and she was so sweet and just my size. I looked in vain for one to buy but couldn't find one. I am happy with my present mare, but I became really fond of Haffie's. Looking forward to pictures and to your journal!


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

And now, PICTURES! Pardon my fatness, I'm working on it  










The start of the rodeo! I don't have my body behind his movement. I was working more by pushing his hip away from me with end of the lead rope. 










Another pass. He trotted out like this for about 5 minutes. 










Starting to calm down now. I gave him a chance to rest and be loved on for a few moments. 










Eyeing Boyfriend and his camera! You can really see how WIDE he is in this pic! 










Reaching an understanding. 










Working on backing. 










Ending it all with some hand-grazing. His eyes look so much more relaxed here. 

And just for fun, little Desi!


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## Captain Evil (Apr 18, 2012)

I am loving reading about you and Sully, and seeing the photos! Sully is the same age and height as Nemo (my Haffie), who also came out of Ohio. My guy was born in April, so 10 and a half.

Nemo is definitely a different horse from any of my previous horses - not that I have had that many, or done that much, but our two sound kind of similar, except that Nemo is very mouthy. Well, not so much anymore, but still, he is. I knew that though, before I bought him; he bit me in the barn after I got off of him, and I bet dollars to donuts he is going to buck when asked to canter. It sounds like you have a better support system and better working facilities than I have, but I am working on that.

Issues we are working on:

Mouthiness (fairly well resolved)
Throwing head around when being haltered or bridled (fairly well resolved)
Pawing, stomping, and doing stab-like kicks while having legs groomed or feet handled (much better, but still an issue)
Cow-kicking (unsure where we are with this: it doesn't happen often)

Riding issues: well, I don't have a well-fitting saddle or a good place to ride, so we have only walked and trotted, but I do not think he is at all well-schooled. We shall see.

Sounds like you guys are well off on your adventure: can't wait to read more!


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

Argh I really want to get out to the stable, but apparently I've all but wrecked myself in this move. I have been having sciatica pain for the past 3 days and that makes me worry I've done something to a disc in my back. Thankfully I don't plan to ride for a few months (I need to lose weight and get in better shape), so no worries on that, just means I'm going to have to avoid straining myself too much.

I'm thinking of getting Sully a tube of the Omega Alpha Equine's "Equine Chill" paste to give before we do a lot of training. I have seen others have great success with it doing just enough to take the edge off, without making the horse dopey or inattentive. 

I am a believer in needing to get the horse into a learning mindset before any actual learning can take place, and as a sufferer of anxiety myself, I do identify with his nervousness. I also am a believer that sometimes, anxiety can get in the way of that so much that you need something to break the "cycle of anxiety" as it were. I have experienced it personally, and I have seen it in horses, dogs, and other animals. It would be nice to have for things like the vet and the farrier if he needs them, too. 

I've also started looking into getting him on a magnesium supplement- I suspect he may be IR, given how fat he is. I'm wondering if part of his anxiousness is being overfed and under-exercised - his foster mom said he had lost some weight since being brought to the rescue; I say he hasn't lost enough . Looking at the Henneke scale, he's a solid 7, if not an 8. 

Shall I compare my horse to a big ol' chub? 

Not my pic, but an example of another overweight horse: 












Once the vet comes out in a few weeks, I'm going to make a point to talk to her about putting Sully on a diet.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

I would highly recommend Remission as a supplement. It has lots of magnesium and other good minerals. We feed it to our borderline IR horses and it helps a lot. I would consider slow feed hay nets, grazing muzzle, dry lot and all of the above. Halfies are super easy keepers and fall into the range of a horse you can "kill" with kindness.

Just take things slow - since you are in no hurry - don't be in a hurry. Just enjoy your horse let him build his trust in you and you in him. Ground work can be fun and good exercise for both horse and rider.


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

carshon said:


> I would highly recommend Remission as a supplement. It has lots of magnesium and other good minerals. We feed it to our borderline IR horses and it helps a lot. I would consider slow feed hay nets, grazing muzzle, dry lot and all of the above. Halfies are super easy keepers and fall into the range of a horse you can "kill" with kindness.
> 
> Just take things slow - since you are in no hurry - don't be in a hurry. Just enjoy your horse let him build his trust in you and you in him. Ground work can be fun and good exercise for both horse and rider.


Thank you for the recommendation! I will look for it tonight when I go to TSC, but if they don't have it I'll find somewhere to order it  

I will definitely be taking things slowly. A me-problem I have to work on is feeling anxious about him not working out in a really spectacular fashion, the way my mare did. Unlike her, I don't see anything Sully is doing as aggressive or defensive - I see fear, I see upset (with requisite tantrums), and that famous Haffie attitude, but I also see a good horse underneath that just needs a few adjustments.


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## CaliforniaDreaming (May 8, 2011)

What's it with Ohio Haflingers? 

Mitch is a product of that state too. he was born in Millersburg, Ohio. 

He was my first experience with Haflingers 8 years ago when I bought him. We've had our roller coaster ups and downs, but he's solid and honest. Sure, he's 17 and still has spunk, but he's not even middle age for the breed yet.

He's got his share of sort-of mouthiness. He never nips, or tries to bite, but he's convinced every time I try to halter him, there's a treat in my hand and he drops his head to touch my hands with his lips which does not make haltering a joyful task when I have to heave that big head of his up. It's been a chore for the last 8 years, but nothing ever changes, eh. Gotta love the golden boy though. 

Had a nice spin on the barn trails with him though. It was crazy windy, leaves flying underfoot, dust devils swirling, and at one point when a particularly strong and sustained gust hit, we had to turn out backs to the wind and ride it out before continuing, yet he was my steady eddy, never put a foot wrong or acted squirrely. 

Still, even with his little quirks and oddities, and occasional silliness, Mitch can be a pretty good example of what can happen if you just keep at it. There's hope for Sully and Nemo yet, never fear!


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

LOL, I feel like this is turning into the "I Have a Haflinger, What Do I Do?" support group thread 

@*CaliforniaDreaming* , thanks for sharing about Mitch! I think Sully is pretty honest as well, we just have to chip away at some of the stubbornness to find it. I'm excited to see what happens Sunday with my trainer friend since she's got a lot of haffie and rescue experience. 

@*carshon* - I bought a tub of Remission at TSC last night, I'll probably drop it off at the barn either tomorrow or Saturday depending on my schedule. Thanks again for the recommendation, I did some additional research and a lot of other people with IR or IR-prone horses have given it some stellar reviews. I'll be very interested to see if it helps over the next few weeks!


I feel bad that I have not been to the stable since Sunday. Unfortunately the pain in my leg is making it hard to walk. If it's not better by next week, I may need to go to the doctor. I used my latent massage therapist skills (yes, I was once a massage therapist way back when) to feel where the nerve comes through my seat bones, and I do feel a significant spasm. 

Ugh, I'm 33 years old and already out of warranty 

I did get some training tools last night - a fugly day-glo lime green lunge whip and a crop, as well as a lunge line, so hopefully we can start off on the right foot. And since when has it gotten so HARD to find a simple, plain training headstall?


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## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

I hope you feel better! I would definitely get it checked out.

And hopefully the Remission works for him! We started Izzie on Magrestore for overall well being and we say results. But sounds like Remission is a good way to go for an IR horse!


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Hoping you feel better and get some relief ASAP.  Pain is no good! Definitely get checked out soon, before it gets worse. Then you can get back to the barn, I'm sure you're dying to get back!


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

We feed our horses Remission year round (some only feed when pastures are green) Good Luck and take of yourself too!


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Are you looking for something like this for lunging?

Leather
Suffolk? Leather Lunge Caveson | Dover Saddlery
https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/leather-lunge-caveson-4981

Nylon
Shires Nylon Lunge Caveson | Dover Saddlery

Weirdly my tack shop didn't have anything like this, so I had to order online.


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

egrogan said:


> Are you looking for something like this for lunging?
> 
> Leather
> Suffolk? Leather Lunge Caveson | Dover Saddlery
> ...


More just for general everyday work, but I will keep those in mind if I need one! There's a Dover saddlery down in Hunt Valley in Baltimore, about an hour and change away from me, so I may take a trip down at some point just for kicks. I'll also head out to Narvon here in PA, where all the really awesome tack shops are located  

This was more just an open bridle for riding and whatnot. I learned a trick during a groundwork clinic last year where the instructor (in her 80's) threaded a light chain choke collar meant for a dog through the bit, then clipped both end rings with the lunge line. Her logic was that it was one less piece of equipment to buy, and it made getting them working left or right a smoother process by not having to stop and switch the line on the caveson. I had only lunged a horse a handful of times before then, but it seemed to work very well when I tried it. She used her personal horses, one of which I wound up driving- you wouldn't think a 28 year old mare could give you a run for your money


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

Yesterday went very well! Unfortunately I have not been able to get out as much as I wanted to in the past week because of the sciatica. I was literally hobbling from place to place because my leg would bother me ALL day. I went out to dinner with my family on Saturday to celebrate my mom’s birthday, and it wound up being the first really cold night with bad weather in their area, so the restaurant was PACKED. Two and a half hours of sitting on a very hard, uncomfortable wooden chair while attempting to entertain my nearly 4 year old niece really made my lower back scream at me. But I put on a new pair of knee-high boots that I got this morning and it’s like magic! Just a little bit of a heel seems to really be helping my back a lot –today is the first day in over two weeks I’ve been able to walk normally! 

And of course, what you really want to know about - Sunday! It went so well, and I have gained a lot of confidence to overcome that PTSD reaction I initially had. Sully did SO GREAT! Amidst 20+ mph winds, leaves and grass and other crap blowing every which way, snow flurries, and the fact that we got a late start when he was anticipating being fed, he did awesome. I really do think that with some more time and work for him, and learning and practice on my part, we have a chance to make a really great team. 

I want to place a big fat emphasis on TIME – me spending time with and working with him. So I have plenty of homework to do, as well as working with Sully. 

My trainer friend, L., is actually an old acquaintance from high school who now owns her own business. For a while, she was head trainer for a very well-known horse rescue here on the East coast. She now does 3 day eventing and regularly hobnobs with some Eventing royalty in MD where we grew up. 

*THE SESSION: *

She started off by touching him all over, sacking him out a bit with her rope, and getting a feel for him, which he did well on. He even tried to start grooming her back. So we took him out to the round pen, and she started off by getting him going and getting him to change directions. She got some DEFINITE blowback on those – he reared a little, shook his head, and at one point did a flying leap with all 4 hooves off the ground, which made us laugh. Even after that, though, he does NOT want to canter – it was trot, trot, trot, the entire time. 

So she worked him for about 30 minutes while I watched. She did some work on the ground with him, and then I came in to do some very basic exercises – basically, working on using my body to tell him to stay out of my space. We were out for about an hour and a half all told. 

A me-problem is that I tend to want to watch horses I’m leading over my shoulder instead of walking confidently forward. Sully has some low confidence at this point, so he keeps wanting to walk directly behind or beside me, and my body language is not inspiring confidence in him at this point. The exercise was to get me to move confidently, to know when to ask him to back up, and to not walk into his space when I’m asking. Part of it was that my back and knee were making it hard to pivot and “slam the door” with my body language, as she called it, even though I tried my best. We DID get him to the point where he was being more respectful – he was backing up a step when I pivoted to look at him, and not butting into my space as much. It wasn’t a ton of progress, but progress nevertheless given the circumstances. 

*RESULTS: *

The results are basically that Sully has some low confidence, he’s green, and he’s got opinions. His behavior was a bit “adolescent” as she called it, and also somewhat par for the course of a horse that’s a bit stubborn and a bit lazy. He’s also got a decent attitude where he does want to be with people, he wants to be friendly and look for that “safe spot”, but again he’s trying to do it on his terms. I’ve never seen a horse that ran to the middle of the ring, snatched a mouthful of grass, and THEN kept trotting along. 

To work on: 

- *Me-problems: *Confidence of body language, consistency, and spending time with Sully.

*- Sully-problems:* Chipping away at the stubborn attitude, reminding him that we’re doing this on People terms, and that he doesn’t have to be directly in my back pocket every second.


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

Oh, and because I know you all love pics:










That side-eye, tho.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

What a great session you had. Keep it up and soon the pics will show you on him or driving him!


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## Drifting (Oct 26, 2011)

Sully is so cute, I love the pictures. Sounds like you got a game plan and know what you need to work on.

On a completely unrelated topic, @Mulefeather remember the leggings you mentioned? I got 2 pair of fleece ones and they're so comfortable. Had a pair on under my jeans and i was nice and warm.


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## Captain Evil (Apr 18, 2012)

So happy to read about the progress you guys are making. I think Sully and Nemo are cut from the same cloth. When I got Nemo, I didn't do it wisely; I didn't do it the way I would have advised a friend to buy a horse. I tried to use my head, not my heart, and sort of ended up using neither. Which is not to say I don't like him, I really do! But I have no idea whether or not he will be a good riding horse or not. 

I did ride him before I bought him, but due to icy conditions only rode him at a walk, and he was in between two other horses. I have no idea whether he goes into a canter, although I do know he will buck if asked to trot. I think we have mostly worked through that, though. 

And this:

"I want to place a big fat emphasis on TIME – me spending time with and working with him. So I have plenty of homework to do, as well as working with Sully." 

I think spending time with the horses will be key in getting to where we want to be with these guys. I need to do much more that myself.


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## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

I'm glad the schooling session went well! Any progress forward is good progress!

Though, totally not surprised he won't canter :lol: Ohio is Amish country, and every horse we've seen pulled from the Amish take a good amount of time and work for them to be comfortable enough to canter. It's drilled into their heads they aren't allowed to canter under any circumstance. It's possible (my friend was working with a Saddlebred that was pulled from the Amish who she did get to canter, but never did show him at a canter), just going to take some time!

Have fun though!! I love your pictures!


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Super happy to hear you guys are making progress together.  As for the canter, I second @Tazzie on that one. One of the horses at our barn is a former 'Amish' horse, and to get him to canter takes a hell of a lot.

Love the pictures too, he's like 'Mom...more pictures? Really?' Such a fuzzball!


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

@Drifting - Glad it worked out for you!! I actually got some other fleece-lined ones from Torrid that are even nicer, they're not the athletic style from the ones I linked. 
@Tazzie / @PoptartShop - Well, as a driving horse that's probably not going to be a problem, since "pleasure" driving horses are trained to not ever canter either  It's going to be interesting to see if I can make the distinction in his mind between "Driving = no canter ever" and "Riding = Canter when asked". His one stablemate that I drove, Henry, also came from the same area and auction, and he loves to go so much that he will happily canter in harness if you let him! 

Oh, and my BO has a russet-colored set of harness that was left behind by someone getting out of horses. Once Sully has acclimated a bit and we have worked him more, we're going to see if it fits him, and if so I might buy it off her. If not, I can get a nice biothane harness made by an Amish man up the road from the stable for about $400.


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

Well, sadly the last 2 weeks have been completely crazy and I have not had a chance to go out to the stable between traveling, weather, holidays, and then my car having issues. Turns out my right rear wheel had a bad bearing, so that was a good $600 down the drain yesterday. But thankfully my car is no longer making weird noises! 

And I got myself and Sully a Christmas present - my trainer friend uses a lot of concepts from Monty Roberts style of training, so I decided to get myself a subscription to Monty Roberts University online. I figure that if I can learn the concepts and also have someone video some sessions, I can work remotely with my trainer friend to improve my horsemanship and Sully's confidence and trust. 

And fear not, I am nobody's training groupie (except maybe Mark Rashid's!), and know that almost every training technique out there focuses on basics of pressure and release. I seem to learn well from videos if I can put the techniques into practice right away - I also like the fact that it's accessible to mobile, and I can re-watch a video on my phone if I'm having issues. It will definitely be an interesting experiment to see if it works for Sully and I!


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## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

I hope it works!! I think you guys are going to have a great partnership once you work the kinks out!

And I hear ya on the time without seeing your baby! It's tough going that long without seeing them!


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Glad your car is fixed! Awww, that's an awesome present that will be good for the both of you.  I hope you find some riding time, I'm sure Sully misses you! <3
Videos are definitely good, I'm also a visual learner.


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

FINALLY made it up to the stable last night! And hopefully I will tonight as well 

Sully is doing very well. I think he's started to settle in and be more comfortable in his surroundings. The lights are not up yet at the barn, so I borrowed the BO's flashlight and just did some work in the stall with him. 

This boy blows my mind, y'all. He is SO SMART. We worked on some clicker training, sans clicker because I keep forgetting to go to the pet store and get one. I took the end of a lead rope and made a soft loop to give him something to touch, and since I didn't have a clicker, I settled on a "kiss" noise (going to switch to a clicker ASAP because I don't want him to get confused). Sully being pretty naturally curious, it didn't take him long at all to discover that when he touched the loop, suddenly he got something delicious! 

I love the "lightbulb" moment when an animal discovers what happens during a clicker session. They get SO EXCITED, and Sully was no exception. I always start a horse out behind a stall door because that excitement moment can get a little nutty, and I try to stay there until the animal learns a cue for "look away" to avoid being mugged for treats. He only gets treats he works for, and he doesn't get them because he begs. 

I was able to get him targeting to the loop, then my outstretched hand, and then we used different rewards - he learned to "ask" to be brushed. I was going over him with a brush and stopped, and he turned back to look at what I was doing. I held out the brush and let him touch his nose to it, then brushed again. I repeated that several times, and he figured out that he could say "Yes, I want more!" by touching the brush. All of this was inside about 40 minutes.

I would say we have a very eager and willing clicker student on our hands! It's going to be very important for me to choose and be consistent with cues, and also develop a set of "lesson plans" for different behaviors. I'm also going to have to be careful to teach him things that won't give the barn owners trouble when they go to handle him. 

I've also been going through the Monty Roberts University video lessons, and I'll be trying join-up next weekend when I can get up to the stable on an early day and use the round pen. It's so interesting seeing all the different methods that different trainers have developed around pressure and release, and I'm excited to try this one too. A lot of it is just going to be "Try many things, see what works, discard what doesn't".


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

I had the day off yesterday, so instead of cleaning my dirty house or unpacking boxes, I went up and spent the afternoon horse-stuff shopping and working with the boy!

I got some TSC gift cards for Christmas, so I went out and splurged a little. I got a black nylon headstall and a curb chain, one of the nice Oster hoof picks, a new halter for Sully, and a catch rope – basically, it has a metal ring that allows you to make a quick halter. It also makes a handy rope to have in the round pen since it’s thin and swishy, and makes a nice whooshy noise when I need to lay the pressure on. I also got myself a nice pair of men’s insulated winter muck boots, and a couple pairs of the thick wool socks. 

We worked in the round pen for about 30-40 minutes, although we don’t seem to be making a lot of progress there. I feel like if I could work him several days in a row, possibly in several shorter sessions, it might be easier to get through to him. 

The major issue I am coming across with him is how herd-bound he is. The second he has any release of pressure whatsoever, he is screaming and calling for the other horses, and getting extremely anxious. We’ll get to a point where he’s stopping and turning to square up to me, and I’ll back off, but then he either starts trying to eat or he starts screaming instead of approaching me- so again, applying pressure and making him work. We went through this scenario about 10 times yesterday, to the point where he was huffing and puffing, and I was huffing and puffing. I even started trying to reward him by removing pressure when he so much as looked at me, but it seems like he’s trying so hard to pay attention for other horses, that he sometimes doesn’t even notice I’ve stopped asking him to move – for instance, I tried standing in the center of the ring and turning away from him, and he made a full circuit of the round pen before he noticed. 

There’s also the issue of his hissy fits and tantrums – we had plenty of those! Lots and lots of head shaking, bucking, and general adolescent behavior. Towards the end I finally got him to follow me when I walked over to talk to my BO, and praised the heck out of him. But again, he wants to be in my pocket and rushing to get back to the stable, so it takes us about 20 minutes just to walk 100 yards since I wound up having to correct him and get him out of my space about every 3 feet. To me, that’s the time I’m most worried, since he is anxious, frustrated, and totally focused on getting back to the other horses. He does this VERY big hissy fit where I’ll make him back up because he’s in my pocket, and he shakes his head so hard his lips start flapping like crazy. We did lots of backing, circling, and head-lowering to make it back to the stable! 

I firmly believe now that he was returned to the stable because of his ground manners- nothing is done out of aggression, but he gets so anxious, distracted and frustrated that it’s definitely a challenge just to walk a few feet. My BO noted that he’s like a teenage boy- you ask him to take the trash out, and he spends an hour complaining and moaning about having to do it, that he’s now wasted ten times more energy than if he’d just done it in the first place. I can honestly see where someone would easily be frightened by him, especially given his penchant for throwing fits. 

I’m going to keep working with him as much as possible, and I’m also going to start the search for a trainer to send him to for 30 days in the spring.


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

I’ve been thinking of ways to break Sully out of his herd-boundness, and it’s apparent that the round penning just isn’t going to work. He’s already anxious and calling by the time he goes in, so I don’t think his brain is fully focused on figuring out the task at hand. He knows where he wants to be, and that’s back where the other horses are. 


So, what to do? I’m coming back to the clicker – I have an idea to break the process down into even smaller steps, and find out where that tipping point is. Where does he switch from thinking to reacting? In other anxious animals, I’ve noticed that if they can either be distracted into breaking their cycle of anxiety, or experience what makes them anxious when a calming aid is being used, it can make the idea “click” that it’s not something they need to be worried about. 

My idea for the next time I see him is to teach him just to stand with me quietly using the clicker. Then, when we have a bit more time on a given day, I’m going to start teaching a head-down verbal cue using a target. Get him to the spot where he generally starts to freak out and get anxious, and just do head-down cues. When he is calm and relaxed in that spot, take him back to the barn. The idea will be to start getting his brain to “I will be calm here” instead of “Oh god I’m leaving the herd”. Each time, stretch that emotional rubber band just a little bit more.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

I believe you should ignore this behavior. Make SURE you are not allowing "he does this because of x in his past" color your handling of him. No matter what, these things get addressed as they come up, so the past makes NO difference. 

I only know OF clicker training, but have no use of it, so I am no help there, sorry. I just handle everything as it comes, no time to keep up with a danger clicker....or needing to keep treats on me!!! I cant keep up with my cellphone, lol!

Anyway, just ignore and proceed. I think addressing it causes frustration, and leaders are NOT frustrated. Once he realizes you are not frustrated about it, he will accept your leadership. 
If you are leading him, and he starts calling,etc., just make a U turn. Then quickly change direction again.


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

What I found worked best with Phin - who was extremely herd-bound and insecure when he first came to me - was to get his attention back on me. I found having him on a line worked much better than being loose in the round pen, as a much smaller signal from me was needed and it kept the speed reasonable (having him galloping around the pen did not help with calmness!).

How does Sully respond to basic leading cues? Does he bend and disengage his hind end? Will he sidepass? Lateral movements have really been the key to getting Phin to turn his brain back on, as just randomly moving his feet forward only cranked him up more. Even now, if he is having a high-energy day, I will start with just a few minutes of lateral work on the ground before even bringing him into the barn. His needing to keep his eye on me because he never knows what I am going to ask for next helps break the where-is-the-herd thought process.

Short and sweet with those sessions I think will be the key to start with. Get him out, work him until he is paying attention and relatively relaxed, then put him away. That should build upon his confidence in you and in being away from his herd. Having a head down cue is also good and can easily be part of your routine.


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## gingerscout (Jan 18, 2012)

Congrats Mule, he sure is a good looking boy.. bet you can't wait to get back into the saddle again


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

phantomhorse13 said:


> What I found worked best with Phin - who was extremely herd-bound and insecure when he first came to me - was to get his attention back on me. I found having him on a line worked much better than being loose in the round pen, as a much smaller signal from me was needed and it kept the speed reasonable (having him galloping around the pen did not help with calmness!).
> 
> How does Sully respond to basic leading cues? Does he bend and disengage his hind end? Will he sidepass? Lateral movements have really been the key to getting Phin to turn his brain back on, as just randomly moving his feet forward only cranked him up more. Even now, if he is having a high-energy day, I will start with just a few minutes of lateral work on the ground before even bringing him into the barn. His needing to keep his eye on me because he never knows what I am going to ask for next helps break the where-is-the-herd thought process.
> 
> Short and sweet with those sessions I think will be the key to start with. Get him out, work him until he is paying attention and relatively relaxed, then put him away. That should build upon his confidence in you and in being away from his herd. Having a head down cue is also good and can easily be part of your routine.


Thanks for bringing this up, it's not something I've thought to try yet with him. I do agree that it seems like round-penning and putting more pressure on him that way seems to make things worse rather than better. I have not worked with him on disengaging his hindquarters yet, so I don't know if he knows how. I will definitely be trying it with him when I see him on Wednesday. 

The times he's been round-penned, he had the same reaction to the trainer as he did to me - think about it, think about it, NOPE, start calling again and trying to approach anyone standing on the outside of the round pen. Once he's in that anxious get-back-to-the-others mode, I don't think anything is really getting through. Both I and the trainer worked him for about 30-40 minutes each- not my first choice, not for lack of trying to give him an out at the earliest opportunity either, multiple times. There were times he didn't even seem to acknowledge that the pressure was off for at least a minute - I could be looking totally away from him with my back to him and he'd just keep trotting and calling.

As far as general leading cues, like backing and giving to pressure, I'd say he's "okay". He knows what he's supposed to do, but especially when pointed towards the barn, he is rushy and doesn't want to seem to stay out of my space. The 20-minute crossing of the arena was me making him stop and back every time he got up into my space, or making him circle, lower his head, and him having his Donald Duck tantrum when he got frustrated (shakes head up and down, lips flap crazily). The reactions I get are more of a snotty teenage "UGH GOD FINE I'LL DO YOUR STUPID EXERCISE BUT I WANT TO GET BACK NOW NOW NOW" than a relaxed and willing horse. 

Time for working with him right now is limited because of the cold and the dark, so it gives me plenty of time to study in between sessions! This issue is certainly giving me a lot to think about and plenty of new stuff to learn in my training and handling. 

Thanks for the suggestions all, keep them coming.



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