# Probly the dumbest riding style!



## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

Different strokes for different folks I guess. Not something I would be interested in doing. I think its a reason to get fancy pants clothes :lol:


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## GallopAway (May 28, 2007)

Saddleseat is one of my favorites.
I love to see a truely talented Park horse strut its stuff.

What's the purpose of ANY riding style? For pleasure? For show? Is riding a horse in any way actually even "natural" for it?


*Origins* are from smooth-moving, high-stepping horses that were used by plantation owners to travel around their fields. The horses had to be smooth for the long hours spent in the saddle, but they were also "flashy". Another influence was European: On Sundays, riders would show off their flashiest, most animated horse. Hence the terms "park" or "park action."

Alot of the horses used for saddleseat are bred  for it.

And not ALL OF THEM ARE CRUEL.
Their are cruel people in EVERY riding discapline. Park, reining, western pleasure, halter, eventing... Cruelty is a part of the horse industry and probably always will be.

My mother showed Country English Pleasure on the Arab circuit for years and was *NEVER *cruel to her horse in any way, shape, or form. I can't speak for other saddleseat-type horses [Saddlebreds, Walkers, Morgans etc] but the Arab show circuit [at least when my mother showed] was strict about their rules. Hooves could only be so long, shoes could only weigh so much. I'm almost posivitve that tail-setting is prohibited on the Arab circuit.
Yes, I'm sure some people still used cruel training methods outside the showring though. But it's unfair to say ALL saddleseat riders/trainers are abusive.

http://www.usef.org/documents/breeds/ArabBook.pdf

Those are the guidelines for Arabs. It tells the leangth and such of shoes/hooves.

Like I said. Abuse is part of the horse industry. Not EVERY rider in a specific discapline is guilty of it though.

Sorry. That was a bit of a rant. But I can't tell you how many times I've heard things like that. lol.


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

Sorry didn't mean to insult anyone  I do agree there is cruelty in all animal areas. I hear all the time about riding gaited horses isn't really riding (I ride a gaited horse) and trail riders are all old geezers who shouldn't be on a horse. So I know how it is when someone disses your riding style or horse. I'm always amazed how many people dislike gaited horses :? Who knows, but I love mine.


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## GallopAway (May 28, 2007)

Vidaloco said:


> Sorry didn't mean to insult anyone  I do agree there is cruelty in all animal areas. I hear all the time about riding gaited horses isn't really riding (I ride a gaited horse) and trail riders are all old geezers who shouldn't be on a horse. So I know how it is when someone disses your riding style or horse. I'm always amazed how many people dislike gaited horses :? Who knows, but I love mine.


Sorry. I wasn't trying to sound mean. I was just trying to get some facts out there. I always hear a load of crap about how Arabs are so wound up and nuts, and even MORE crap about how saddleseat riding is such a horrible thing to be into, blah blah blah.
To each his own. Or whatever that saying is, lol.

I love gaited horses. I'm sooo madly in love with Paso's. I'd kill to own one. And I think it'd be so awesome to take a Saddlebred for a spin... Haha, we used to board at a Fox Trotter stable, and my mother's in love with them now, after she got to trail ride a few. :lol:


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## barnrat (Jan 1, 2007)

I'm sorry I had to delete that post....It was rude. Everyone here is entitled to there own opinions please keep this in mind. Maybe what you should have done is tell everyone your views.


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## Delregans Way (Sep 11, 2007)

Holey moley guys settle down! :? Every one...as many stated are allowed to there own opinion...wether u think its wrong or not. Horseluver, can you tell me what was the purpose of this post? You must of knew somethings about it (saddle seat riding), other wise you wouldnt of said it was cruel... :roll:


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## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

Thank you Barnrat

Delregans Way, I wasn't meaning anything i just like to hear other oppinions on things. I know this girl at my barn who rides saddleseat and she doesn't even like horses she's mean to them. I'm glad other people like it. You should be alowed to post your oppinion without getting yelled at.


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## Delregans Way (Sep 11, 2007)

Thats good horseluver. And i wasnt yelling sweety lol :lol: You do have a point... and im glad your open minded towards the matter. This girl, do you know for absolute sure she 'hates' horses...thats a big conclusion to come to, have you heard her side of the story first..? Sorry if u thought i was having a go at you darl...im glad you didnt take it the wrong way :wink:


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## barnrat (Jan 1, 2007)

sadly some people harm horses thinking its the only way to make things work. It's sad...but sometimes you can't get through to them....*thinking of someone at the barn...*


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## GallopAway (May 28, 2007)

horse_luver4e said:


> Thank you Barnrat
> 
> Delregans Way, I wasn't meaning anything i just like to hear other oppinions on things.* I know this girl at my barn who rides saddleseat and she doesn't even like horses she's mean to them*. I'm glad other people like it. You should be alowed to post your oppinion without getting yelled at.


One bad person doesn't make the rest of the horrible.
But I can see how that would change your opinion about it.

It is completely possible to train and ride a brilliant saddleseat horse without being cruel in anyway though. Trust me. I've seen it done. :wink: 
lol.


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## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

Yeah that girl i was talking about, I never see her at the barn. She used to show saddleseat for awhile but they sold it becuase it was to old to show, which it wasnt becuase it was only 9! And she doesn't even spend time with the horses she just has a trainer tire it out so she can get on and show it. She thinks of it all as a sport and now she's doing basketball becuase she doesn't have a horse becuase she will only take a top dollar show horse. She claimes any cheaper than $50,000 is not a good horse. Which is so not true! Usually it's the other way around. My horse was $1200 and she's the best! (lol I hope she doesn't come on here!)


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## barnrat (Jan 1, 2007)

well, even if she did come on here I'm sure she would not relize you were speaking of her....


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## Abby (Nov 26, 2007)

The horse that I used to show the woman bought for only $900. She was a paint, and the owner sold her because she was "untrainable" at four years old. Buh-Loney!! Karol trained that horse into a champion. Heidi is a registered paint, and a beautiful one at that. She's a shining star in the show ring and a very flashy trail horse, and has brought home many Ribbons in both hunter/jumper, dressage, and western. She is a magnificent animal that was never given a chance.


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## DressageOrBust (Apr 15, 2007)

I am not a fan of Saddleseat, honestly I think it's goofy but that's MHO.  I have never had desire to ride Saddleseat.

That said I don't every knock the people who do because you do what makes you happy. There are horse abusers in EVERY dicipline of riding, sadly there probably always will be.

I think Saddleseat is great for people who truly enjoy it and their horse enjoys it. True, I do get a bit ****y when I see people riding Arabians in park but again that's my personal opinion.


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## Equina (Jul 28, 2007)

For about a month, I rode this National Show Horse (saddlebred/Arab cross) who had been trained in Saddleseat. He was retired and donated to my local therapeutic riding center (I was giving him his "trial" period to decide whether he would be suited for the kids). I only had training in Huntseat, and we only had access to a Dressage saddle. So, it was a strange combination, but that horse was amazing! He was the sweetest little cuddlebug! And he had a canter to die for!! From my not-so-experienced view on things, he had normal feet and tailset. 

Anyways, just an example of a good Saddleseat experience from a non-Saddleseat person!

PS-I loved the comment on Saddleseat just being an excuse to dress up fancy! That's the reason why I tried Western for a season...all the colors and bling!!  Now back to...khaki or beige breeches? Navy pinstripe or navy windowpane coat? Oh boy all the options!! :roll:


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## huntergrl (Nov 26, 2007)

I definately think its an 'acquired taste' in the riding world. My cousin rode saddleseat and I was doing hunter/jumper as I've always done. Her mom didn't like hunter so sometimes I'd hear her say something about it being stupid and redundant because its so popular so everyone does it. Well I think Saddle Seat is definately out of the ordinary when it comes to riding styles and its foreign to me and my english family. But I don't rudely voice my opinion to my neice like she did. If it weren't for her I might have a better outlook on it but I see what you mean when it comes to saddleseat being a meaner way of riding. My experiences were that while I was at the saddlebred breed show at the Fair Grounds, everyone there was riding saddleseat and I saw alot of people that would strong arm and whip their horses. Alot of horses, saddlebreds and arabians would jump and rear and fall back on the riders. This also happened to my cousin when she got her saddlebred. She has a way of whipping the horse when it doesn't need it but she still is a horse lover. Anyhow maybe its just my experiences but I don't think I can really trust a saddlebred after the ones I've seen, even the top dollar ones. They all seem extremely hyper and hard to control.


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## Delregans Way (Sep 11, 2007)

> I definately think its an 'acquired taste' in the riding world.


Very well said Hunter Girl....


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## huntergrl (Nov 26, 2007)

Thanks


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## Jrchloe (Dec 17, 2007)

What is weird about it and why do you say it is cruel? Please explain and then if its ok with you I would like to educate you on the truth of Saddle seat to straighten out the the myths, rumors and misunderstandings.


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## drop_your_reins (Nov 4, 2007)

well I personally think its rude to discredit any discipline on the basis of prejudice. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I would receive a lot of backlash if I went around saying "oh i hate this breed their so ugly or they serve no purpose.. etc." My opinion is that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. 

I've ridden many seats. I started at a hc hunter/jumper farm, I've taken my Morgan gelding Hunters, Jumpers, Western Pleasure & Eq, Hunter Pleasure & Eq, and Dressage. I've driven horses, and I ride saddleseat. I've also taken polo cross & sidesaddle lessons. I would ride a thoroughbred around the one mile if given the chance, same thing with a standardbred (well er drive). I currently ride at two H/J farms and ride a variety of breeds, in addition to the farm where I keep my horse. But my favorite discipline is saddleseat. I'm in the finalization process of a new morgan filly (yay me!) who I want to take saddleseat hopefully English Pleasure.. but she's a long way from the show ring since I'm training her. 

My point is a horse that does its job well is a beautiful thing, no matter what breed it is or what its job is. Everyone will have their likes and dislikes, but its not fair for you to be judgemental (at least publically, your private opinion is yours and no one can take that from you), especially if you've never tried saddleseat. I would never say anything negative about a discipline or breed I have never tried first. I certainly wouldn't start a thread intended to bash a singular breed, horse, person, or discipline. 


now to addess your concerns, 99% of people in the industry (especially Morgans, I can't say for other breeds since I've never been to other breed shows) are not abusive. Just like (I hope) the people who stick tacks in rails of jumps and bump the horse's knees as they go over are in a one percent of their own. Or just like the people who leave the horse's standing knee deep in mud with no food or water, on the brink of death, are in a 1% for the industry on a whole. 

*Things you might of seen or heard or assumed. *

*"The horses are forced to pick their feet up in a way that is unnatural." *Not true, it is something bred into them. True it has evolutionized to the extremes you see today, but not without careful selection. I've put action chains (like bracelets, encourage the horse to use legs in a more upward motion) on my gelding (who has some of the breeding, but became a WP WC instead) and he does nothing. He's also not the type to snort or flag his tail, and he's not "hot" or excitable.

*"They tie the feet together and make them move." *Technically, yes. However there are reasons and its not nearly as harsh as it sounds. The tubing is breakable, so a horse using it ineffectively or it will break, it also doesn't inhibit the movement of a horse who's inclination is not "flashy." (like my horse) It's the same material as the resistance training tubing in gyms.. You can buy it at modell's for yourself (w/ two handles at each end). Just like you wouldn't jump a horse in the grand prix without thorough preparation, you wouldn't take an unexercised horse in the show ring. If you did, injury/founder/overheating could result. The stretchies build muscle, it's like resistance training. The horses won't use them if they don't know how (like my gelding, he won't).. "knowing" how is genetic, there's no other explanation. 

*"They grow the hoof to an unnatural length and add weighted shoes." *Really the length of the hoof provides support during show season. The weight of the shoe and pad give the horse something to "pull" against (similar to the chains or stretchy tubing provides). Most times the shoes are taken down in the off season. Also the divisions place restriction on toe length and weight. For example Classic Pleasure (the least of the three for Morgans) has requirements that the association sets for all other disciplines (hunter pleasure, western pleasure.. and I think the sport disciplines too.).. Which is basically nothing.. 

*"They never turn their horses out."* I'm sure many farms don't. But during the show season, the horse's can't be pulling shoes constantly so they are turned out minimally or handgrazed. If they don't have shoes on there is generally no reason for them NOT to be turned out. Again it varies by farm, and some horses never see the light of day, except for the walk to the arena or round pen, which is sad.. but I definately don't think its the norm. Babies, broodmares, and lesson horses are almost always turned out appropriately. 

*"The horses are scared to death, that's why they do it." *Horse can be silly, but if the horse was truly scared to death it would do the normal scaredy cat horse stuff. It would bolt, rear, sidestep, bulge its eyes, etc. The common tactics used by trainers are to excite a horse.. get them in that mood to do their thing. Baby Powder might be a little scary for a first time horse, but it smells funky and puts a lot of horses in that mood. Plastic bags make noise, noise gets the horses excited. (hence why all the trainers line up on the side of the ring and whoop and holler at classes.) People have other weird customs but those are the two I generally use. Some people bang the fence board to make some noise. A truly scared horse would rear/run away.. not pick his feet up even higher?.. 

*"The horses are miserable.. pin their ears, bite, crib, develop other bad habits." *None of the horses I'm around do any of these things, they generally trot happily with their ears perked- as if they wouldn't be anywhere else in the world but in the moment. They know they're fancy and they know people love the way they move. Horses who have pinned ears at Morgan shows wouldn't win. 

*"They ruin the horse's tail in order to have that "flagging" tail look." *That's mostly done with saddlebreds, I'm not sure if it is still done or not.. But I would never do that to a horse. In Morgans its illegal to do anything of the sort, including adding tail extensions. So yes it does happen, but many people do not condone it or partake in it.

I'm sure there are plenty other rumors, so feel free to ask for clarification on any of them and I'll tell you my honest opinion.

As someone who has ridden many seat types, nothing beats the exhileration of riding a horse who truly loves to show off. There's no explanation, but I would reccomend the sport for anyone, plenty of wonderful horses who are excitable but not moronic (some morons too, believe me) and its fun! The only downer is it CAN be expensive, but you can find great deals on tack and clothes on ebay..


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## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

> "The horses are forced to pick their feet up in a way that is unnatural." Not true, it is something bred into them. True it has evolutionized to the extremes you see today, but not without careful selection. I've put action chains (like bracelets, encourage the horse to use legs in a more upward motion) on my gelding (who has some of the breeding, but became a WP WC instead) and he does nothing. He's also not the type to snort or flag his tail, and he's not "hot" or excitable.


No they put the chains on there to make it painful in the sored area. Are you aware of soring? They do it to just about every walking horse. And this is a forum you are allowed to post your oppinion and I think your post was somewhat rude. Other people responded to there oppinions too but they weren't rude about it. Please think before you post!


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## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

> Baby Powder might be a little scary for a first time horse, but it smells funky and puts a lot of horses in that mood. Plastic bags make noise, noise gets the horses excited. (hence why all the trainers line up on the side of the ring and whoop and holler at classes.) People have other weird customs but those are the two I generally use. Some people bang the fence board to make some noise. A truly scared horse would rear/run away.. not pick his feet up even higher?..


That is no way for a horse to live. I'm sorry but If that were me I would hate to live a life frightened all the time. It's not exitement it's fright.



> "They ruin the horse's tail in order to have that "flagging" tail look." That's mostly done with saddlebreds, I'm not sure if it is still done or not.. But I would never do that to a horse. In Morgans its illegal to do anything of the sort, including adding tail extensions. So yes it does happen, but many people do not condone it or partake in it.


And yes lots of people do it. That is why I say it's cruel. It has no purpose and there in it for the money. 

Those who acually like to ride saddleseat and do not do these things, I'm glad for you but drop_your_reins, what you just posted is not horse riding it's torture.


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## drop_your_reins (Nov 4, 2007)

Last time I checked TWHs did not make up the whole saddleseat industry. Most of the people I know and am around do not sore their horses, yes I know what it is and I would never do it to a horse. I wouldn't even know where to get the chemicals from. It's a shame that it is still done today, and I feel the only reason it is still around is because its _traditional_. I don't believe in it or condone it, but a few individuals do not make up the whole industry. The chains that are commonly used would be no more in weight than if you wore a charm bracelet (or probably less, since it is proportional) and like I said horses can choose to use the device or not. My gelding doesn't use it (partially for lack of ability, partially for "what the hell is that on my leg?") and it does not hurt a horse. 



> That is no way for a horse to live. I'm sorry but If that were me I would hate to live a life frightened all the time. It's not exitement it's fright.


Then please tell me why the horses do not exhibit any of the common traits of fright. I have seen saddle horses who know how act goofy in unfamiliar settings.. Tell me why the filly I just purchased will willingly (without any encouragement, chasing, bags, baby powder, ANYTHING) run in an arena or pasture, flag her tail, trot level (well her hocks are something else), neck upright.. etc. She has no formal training, other than being handled, groomed, and had her hooves trimmed. She reacts the same way a show horse might if you encourage them with a plastic bag or baby powder or whatever else. She has never been exposed to those types of things.. Those things have been proven to bring the "attitude" out in horses who a bred with it, with some horses it works and with some it doesn't. I could shake a plastic bag at my gelding all day long, but he would just stand and look at me. 


And I'm sorry if you perceived anything I said as rude, you may have the "right" to bash another discipline. but we certainly have the right to defend it. If you want to talk about a money driven industry that is "torturing" horses, LMK. Because I can bring up quite a few.


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## drop_your_reins (Nov 4, 2007)

> And this is a forum you are allowed to post your oppinion and I think your post was somewhat rude. Other people responded to there oppinions too but they weren't rude about it. Please think before you post!


I really am sorry if you thought I was rude, but I did take offense to your thread as would anyone who says "[insert discipline] is dumb and weird and torture." don't you think? And given the length of my post I did think quite awhile about each thing I said. I also gave you a little background on my riding to show you that I was not being prejudiced. I actually started riding at a H/J barn that disliked saddleseat. My trainer never actually encouraged me to ride saddleseat, but she has pictures of her horses that she's ridden saddleseat and I asked her what it was (I didn't know about it) and she explained it to me.. So I asked her if I could have a lesson in it. That was a long long time ago. Anyway I would never impress my discipline upon you, but I also want to clear up any negative impressions because the sport is NOT anymore negative than any other discipline. I think if you reread my reply you might find its not really rude, although I was clearly on the defense (as anyone would be). So again, sorry if you felt attacked, but you must understand you were clearly attacking something I love.

If you pointed out any solid reasons why you don't like the sport, I could try to clear up any negative impressions that might have formed while you were stabling with that girl. Both of my horses were relatively cheap in terms of what they Should have been priced at for their quality and the market. I'm not one of those people who thinks something isn't good unless it cost you $60,000.


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## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

around here saddleseat ppl are mean, cruel, and hard headed. Thank you if your not but i just flat out don't like the discipilne JMO.


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## drop_your_reins (Nov 4, 2007)

Well I'm sorry you've had that experience!


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## GottaRide (Dec 10, 2007)

I normally ride western, but saddleseat has always intrigued me. I rode in that style once or twice and it was a blast! I've even thought of taking a few saddleseat lessons to be able to really experience it the way it should be done.

I think everyone should keep an open mind about different riding disciplines. You can't really call yourself a horseperson if you don't learn about everything horses have to offer!


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## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

Everyone is allowed to like or dislike something. everyone does, it's called being human. Every horse person has that breed, style, or trainer they don't like.


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

I know very little about saddleseat, but I know that it seems difficult for anyone to know whether or not they like a discipline unless they have given it a try or at least watched it at its best extensively themselves 

Also, as posted by others, I believe that there will be cruelty in EVERY SINGLE discipline - it just depends on the humans involved. 

I agree with drop your reins that posting about how a discipline is stupid/cruel is bound to hurt someone's feelings.


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## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

some of those things are not true, but i am glad she takes pride in her sport.


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## drop_your_reins (Nov 4, 2007)

Thank you AKPaintLover and Gottaride. (I ride western! its different than stock horses, but I've ridden a paint western once.. It was really neat he was very very light. I was thinking about taking a couple lessons for the experience.. but probably when the weather warms up.) 




> some of those things are not true, but i am glad she takes pride in her sport.


What exactly did I say that wasn't true? A lot of it was my opinion, true, but it was backed up with fact.


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## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

about how you get horses 'exited'. I do natural horsemanship and that is just a way to get a horse nervose.


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## drop_your_reins (Nov 4, 2007)

Well then that's your opinion and this is mine. It does not mean I lied, I stated my opinion and it was backed up by fact. Natural horsemanship is good and fine if that is what you like to do, and you certainly don't see me starting threads calling it "dumb," "weird," or anything else. I thought natural horsemanship was about communicating with your horse in a way that encourages a partnership and is free of the negatives of normal human bias and judement normally found when training horses. (i.e. this horse is stupid because it doesn't understand ME, the natural horsemanship approach would be to understand the horse and communicate with them that way? no?) 
Well my point is you should approach humans in the same non-judgemental and unbiased way. As long as it does not infringe on your rights or the rights of the horse (which it clearly does not, no matter how much you think or will it.. shaking a little plastic bag to get a horse riled up does not induce physical harm, not to mention the horses see the plastic bag on a daily or weekly basis. They know it is their cue to add a little enthusiasm to their work. I've seen horses spook and if the horses were truly afraid of the plastic bag.. why would they return to their owners with nothing but kind hearts and kisses?) you should not post things that are bound to get people upset. 

The USEF would step in at the first signs of abuse if it were common to one discipline and stop it or place strict regulations. Instead, in their magazine, they have articles and pictures celebrating the athleticism and beauty these horses offer us. If you want a cause, support the Premarin mares and babies, or stop horse slaughter.. I can assure you that my horse who is snugly tucked in his or her heated stall with 4 inches of shavings with plenty of treats and bran mash on sundays and pleasantly plump and turned out daily and loved and kissed and groomed and ridden and taken out on the occaisional trail and loved is a far cry from abuse, even if he/she has to work once in a while. I can assure you that most of these horses don't need or want your support because they are perfectly happy doing they're job. =]


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## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

Whatever, I allready told you I didn't care that you did that. I just have certain veiws becuase I am a horse trainer and natural horsemanship is more than you think.


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## drop_your_reins (Nov 4, 2007)

I actually know quite a bit about natural horsemanship. To some degree I practice it with my horse. But a couple of friends of mine do it and are much more dedicated to it than I am. I know I must be the antichrist.. a saddleseat rider who practices natural horsemanship? But really anyone successful in the horse business has to communicate with horses in a way that is productive, so it has to be in a way they understand.. But I'm going to drop this thread, since your arguments are not founded by fact and you have no experience _riding_ saddleseat, only the biased opinions you formed when watching someone who was not a true representation of the sport. I'll keep my open and mind and leave you with yours.


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## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

I AM open minded, we were just fine discussing saddleseat, and I was acually learning some things about other peoples veiws till you came on and had to act like your opinion matterd most. I don't care I don't want to fight anymore.

mods please lock this thread.


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## GottaRide (Dec 10, 2007)

An open minded person does not start threads with the title you've chosen for this one. An open minded person does not say things like you've said all throughout this thread. Here are just two examples of what I consider very close minded thinking:



> saddleseat ppl are mean, cruel, and hard headed





> Every horse person has that breed, style, or trainer they don't like.




And to add a comment to the above, I think a true horseman shows appreciation and respect for every breed, riding style and other horsemen. There are very few horsepeople in this world....the rest are just people who own horses.


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

I am not sure I have seen any reason for a moderator to lock this thread???

People have stated their opinions (which differ amazingly), but no fowl language or cruel remarks have been made.


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## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

modds please lock this i'm tired of fighting.

EVERYONE HAS A HORSE THEY DON'T LIKE! they had a whole dang thread about what is your least favorite breed, and how do you guys know? maybe I HAVE tried saddleseat, and i HAVE been around saddlebreds, but you guys are too closed minded to listen!

whooo....'letting out anger'
okay I'm fine :roll:


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## I Love Lane (Dec 11, 2007)

drop_your_reins said:


> I actually know quite a bit about natural horsemanship. To some degree I practice it with my horse. But a couple of friends of mine do it and are much more dedicated to it than I am. I know I must be the antichrist.. a saddleseat rider who practices natural horsemanship? But really anyone successful in the horse business has to communicate with horses in a way that is productive, so it has to be in a way they understand.. But I'm going to drop this thread, since your arguments are not founded by fact and you have no experience _riding_ saddleseat, only the biased opinions you formed when watching someone who was not a true representation of the sport. I'll keep my open and mind and leave you with yours.


HERE HERE!

I have not ridden any type of gaited horse and IMO if that is what you want to do..... GO FOR IT!  

I ride western like a lot of people in this tread and i can tell you one thousand mean things that get done to pleasure horses that i dont agree with but i still do the sport! There is cruel people in every discipline - it wouldnt have mattered what was chosen here, someone would have been nasty and unkind because they dont have the education to realise that all sports have there down sides.

Please take note that this is not a personal attack on anyone just trying to point out that no matter what the discipline that was being put down, someone was going to fire up about that - as would i if my sport was being attacked :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: 

Just for the record Horse_luver4e, there is not a single type of horse that i dont like and if you care to take a look on the thread about that you will see that i posted to that a week ago. Don't go putting words into other people mouths.


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

Horselover, I am coming from a neutral opinion here (not passionate about either side of this argument). Why would you post this thread if you were just going to ask the moderators to lock it up as soon as a few people disagreed with you?

The nature of your post is conflictual...it entices people to disagree with you and to share their opposing views. That is the beauty of this forum...you get to share your opinions  (I have said that so many times  )

I find it curious that people get so fired up about things like these. If everyone steps back and quits taking things personally, and refrains from personal attacks, there are opportunities to learn from one another all over this forum. 

Horselover, I think it was assumed that you did not ride saddle seat because your experience with it (that you shared on this thread) was what you had seen from a snobby girl. 

Personal example of how to take things lightly:
I have seen several threads started about barrel racing this or that. Well from many years of experience with the sport, I have seen horses drugged and run lame, started way to young, permanently injured, people sent to hospitals, etc. I have learned through experience that barrel racing CAN be a cruel and dangerous sport, 
BUT I do not start a thread about it or bash on those posting questions about it. Rather, I try to post ways to do well and be a good horseman in the sport...to help people avoid falling into that world of cruelty that befalls any discipline. It is much more productive than just wishing everyone would agree with me. 

Cruelty that I know of in various disciplines off the top of my head:
Western Pleasure - the spur stop 
Dressage - over-flexing into unnatural positions
Racing - Running too hard, too young, and using hard contact so that the horse braces at the bit when running
Pack horses - can be underfed/watered on a regular basis
Any sorry excuse horses owners - not trimming, vaccinating, feeding, exercising, or caring for horses properly

Oh there are so many that I have heard of and that everyone knows about...it is ridiculous to continue


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## drop_your_reins (Nov 4, 2007)

Whoo. I was starting to feel alone out there! Thanks for the support. No one is fighting with you horselover they are just stating their opinions. 

Also horselover, I really find it doubtful that you have been around saddleseat or ridden it. For one you would be able to base your arguments with more fact. Secondly, I think you would have more respect for the animals and people involved in saddleseat if you have tried it at a legitimate farm. also "Least Favorite" is a lot different than "Don't Like.." you can still like a horse who might normally be your "least favorite" breed of horse. I don't really have any least favorites, but I am indifferent to some breeds. 

As for me, I gave you my personal background in horses before.. I have ridden many different seats and breeds of horse, I've driven horses.. today, for example, I rode sidesaddle for the first time in a couple years. My goal is to learn as much as possible about every discipline.. and ride as many types of horses as I can. 

I can honestly say that I can appreciate a horse who does its job and does it well, no matter what breed or discipline it is. Yes, I _Prefer_ to ride saddleseat.. but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy a thoroughbred who loves to jump.. or a lightmouthed stock horse who is great at his sliding stops (although I've only ridden one, I've seen quite a few!).. or insert breed and discipline here.

I love lane.. I've actually never ridden a gaited horse either! (some saddleseat horses are gaited, but not all saddleseat horses are).. Gaited is having more than the three main gaits (walk trot canter).. I don't really know too much else about it, since gaited morgans exist but aren't too common. Saddleseat is just a horse whose gaits are generally fancier. Sorry If I'm not making too much sense, I'm in a rush and completely exhausted. lol Maybe someone can enlighten us a little more on gaited horses? lol


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## I Love Lane (Dec 11, 2007)

My bad Drop_your_reins  I must have misunderstood what you ment when you were discussing the "gait" of the horse. Well then i have never riden a Saddleseat trained horse :lol:


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## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

Thanx guys.I know, I'm a terrible person and I don't need to be fighting with you guys becuase I'm allways wrong. k?

All I did was post what I didn't like

People posted what the liked or disliked about it. I took it in.

So please don't make this a big deal. Who cares what everyone else thinks?

Does my opinion about saddleseat change your fun in the sport? No. So please just Drop It.


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## I Love Lane (Dec 11, 2007)

horse_luver4e said:


> Thanx guys.I know, I'm a terrible person and I don't need to be fighting with you guys becuase I'm allways wrong. k?
> 
> All I did was post what I didn't like
> 
> ...


Don't get too frazzled over it :lol: As i have mentioned to you before - just be careful what you say and how you say it because people will respond to your comments as they would respond to mine if i had said what you did. If you say things that annoy people, they are going to have a go at you but if you try more to hear people opinions on what you have said instead of getting so defensive all the time, you would get into a lot less situations where people are genuinly getting mad at your expense. 

And just so you know, IMO noone thinks you are a terrible person, just a little misguided at times :wink:


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

I don't think you are terrible horseluver. You clearly share my passion for horses in general


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## TheStables (Dec 29, 2007)

I rode saddleseat as a kid on both Saddlebreds and Arabs. I had a blast. I now ride hunters on TBs. I'm having a blast and I'm 42. That's the whole point of loving and having horses. Not everyone is cut out to have horses. If this girl at your barn "hates" horses, why is she even attempting to ride? And from what I still understand about the saddleseat show circuit, if you want to compete with the big dogs, you probably will pay between $25-$50,000 for a horse. The same goes in the hunter world. Sad, but true.


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## Jennifermarie (Dec 31, 2007)

> Sorry. I wasn't trying to sound mean. I was just trying to get some facts out there. I always hear a load of crap about how Arabs are so wound up and nuts, and even MORE crap about how saddleseat riding is such a horrible thing to be into, blah blah blah.
> To each his own. Or whatever that saying is, lol.
> 
> I love gaited horses. I'm sooo madly in love with Paso's. I'd kill to own one. And I think it'd be so awesome to take a Saddlebred for a spin... Haha, we used to board at a Fox Trotter stable, and my mother's in love with them now, after she got to trail ride a few. :lol:



yeah i dont get why some people hate on the arabs
my cousin has one and he is amazing.
hes never bucked or took off :roll:


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## GallopAway (May 28, 2007)

Jennifermarie said:


> > Sorry. I wasn't trying to sound mean. I was just trying to get some facts out there. I always hear a load of crap about how Arabs are so wound up and nuts, and even MORE crap about how saddleseat riding is such a horrible thing to be into, blah blah blah.
> > To each his own. Or whatever that saying is, lol.
> >
> > I love gaited horses. I'm sooo madly in love with Paso's. I'd kill to own one. And I think it'd be so awesome to take a Saddlebred for a spin... Haha, we used to board at a Fox Trotter stable, and my mother's in love with them now, after she got to trail ride a few. :lol:
> ...


I know. I learned to ride on an Arab.
They're not all the psycho nut-jobs people make them out to be.

Lol, but personally, the hot ones are my favorite. I think some Arabs just need someone to understand how they work.

Most people think our Half Arab is a completely lunatic, and sometimes I have to agree, haha. But really, most of the time he's just a horse you really have to keep after, you know? He's a horse you actually have to _ride_. Which I love. lol.


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## tranquilo (Dec 17, 2007)

I don't get the Arab hate either. I've been around them my whole life, and out of those I've owned two that I wouldn't trust with kids. Both of them were mistreated before I got them. The rest have all been extremely trustworthy, especially with kids. I think people just see Arabians in their "show off" mode and think that they're like that all the time.

On the other hand, every Quarter Horse I've ever ridden was a total nut-job. But I don't make generalizations and say that all Quarters are like that, I was just unlucky enough to find a bunch that were.


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## GallopAway (May 28, 2007)

tranquilo said:


> I don't get the Arab hate either. I've been around them my whole life, and out of those I've owned two that I wouldn't trust with kids. Both of them were mistreated before I got them. The rest have all been extremely trustworthy, especially with kids. I think people just see Arabians in their "show off" mode and think that they're like that all the time.
> 
> *On the other hand, every Quarter Horse I've ever ridden was a total nut-job. But I don't make generalizations and say that all Quarters are like that, I was just unlucky enough to find a bunch that were*.


Same. Lol.

Although before we bought our Half Arab, we did look at a nice QH.

He was a big 16 hand bay. OMG, he was *amazing *to ride. Lol, the only reason mom said she didn't want him was because she wanted Rumor [our Half Arab]. She just couldn't help herself. lol. :roll:


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## Dave (Nov 4, 2007)

*saddleseat*

Hello again my 2 cents worth on the soreing of walking horses or saddlebreds, i own and show 2 horses one is Walking jordan aka the DUCHESS She is TWH, 6yr old mare yes at one time in her life before i purchased her she had been sored up but that was when she was 2yr old and she has not been abused in any way since then she is a naturally gaited horse, not scared or afraid in any way. and i also have ROYAL KING B. He is a saddlebred horse that was used by the amish in pa for several years to pull a buggy he was also ridden at times also, He was sold due to the fact he was not a happy horse and would not keep up the buggy gait they require of the amish horses. i purchased him to use as a saddle horse and also to use in my buggy well as for a trail horse i only have a mustang that can go all day with him he is great never spooks at anything and can be rode by a 5yrold but he also has all the go you want in a horse , i have ridden him with a saddleseat type saddle but only a few times he is ridden western or bare back which ever i happen to want to ride, and as of just a couple years ago the TWH ***. has stopped the use of chains and any other means of soreing a horse, in fact i had to put duchess thru a group of vet , and ***, officials before i could show her as they had to be sure she wasnt being sored up and because she has scars from it being done to her years ago she has to go thru a vet check before every show, since i do not believe in soreing of any animal she will never suffe rit again , but it is costly for me to show her do to the vet checks at each show before i can even enter her as of today she has 13 first and second places with out the aid of any heavey shoes or chains or any kind of soreing, in effect not all owners or trainers today hurt there horse just to win a place in a show. and anyone caught doing it is heavrely fined and suspended from the show circuit Thanks for listening to me rant about it but not every one hurts them or is cruel to there horses, and i am around a lot of the bigger show barns here in tn and can really and truely say that most dont do it , yes some do it continuouskly but they are being weeded out of the show and breeding training barns these days thanks again Dave


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## Jrchloe (Dec 17, 2007)

I as a Saddle Seat and Saddlebred lover it makes me sad that one breed and their practices ruin our reputation for the rest of us. I only know of soring in the walking horse industry but it could be in the other gaited breeds (non trotting) but I only know of the walking horse industry to want that big exagerated step. Since Saddlebreds, Morgans, Arabs and NSH are trotting breeds and we want square trotting horses we do not sore our horses. Our training practices are a little different and the way we ride and how we like our horses is different than other disiplines but our love of our horse's and us wanting to keep them healthy and happy is just the same. Our training practices enhance the horse and the horse's are bred to like a lot of excitement. Since many of you haven't personally been around Saddle Seat horses you may think its weird that we like a lot of hooten and hollerin but the horse's love it too and there is reason behind it. Please don't judge us because I certainly don't judge you. Remember for a horse to jump high and canter and trot sideways is not natural as well but they are still happy doing it and are bred to do it well. Please lets all just get along.


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## thepie24 (Apr 23, 2008)

i own a saddlebred and think that the sport of saddleseat is overwhelmingly cruel and unfair to the horses IN A GREATER DEGREE than dressage, jumping, western, etc. the means are almost accepted by the riders. chains on their feet? locked in stalls for long periods of time? six inch shoes? they're horses, not accessories.


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## thunderboomer (Jun 20, 2008)

i ride saddleseat on the arab circuit. I refuse to show the saddlebred circuit. Their is cruelity in all breeds, you have to find the right barn. My trainer was one of the best. She spent time with each of the horses not just ridding them. And its not just about fancy clothes or horses it's hard work. These horses don't stay in that frame and don't keep driving under themselves without a riders help. Show hack is very hard. Its only on the arab circuit for those of you who haven't heard of it. You have 10 gates 2 directions. It takes an athletic, smart horse and a strong, good rider to bring a horse from an extended to a collected trot in 5 to 7 strides.


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## thunderboomer (Jun 20, 2008)

arabs also have much stricter shoe regulations then saddlebreds so although their animation is enhanced by their shoes its not like the other saddleseat breeds. Their are no devices used to change their movement like chains and ****. Now thats in the show ring, go to some barns and their not all like that. But the pads for the shoes can only be a couple inches, the shoe can only weigh so much, you can't add extra nails for weight, etc. Tail setting is not allowed and not neccesary cause arabs naturally carry their tales up.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

I wouldn't say thats it's dumb, it's just different. Some people prefer certain disciplines over other. Nothing else to say.


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## thunderboomer (Jun 20, 2008)

how does everyone get their little pictures that appear on the left side to be the correct size, mine are too big?


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## XxXequinegrlXxX (May 24, 2008)

I think it can be cruel, although i do agree with you guys that not everyone in this riding disipline is cruel. You are going to find a cruel person that rides in every disipline. I think that saddleseat is somewhat stupid looking and it is (in my opinion) more unatural than almost any other riding disipline. I just think it is point less. But that is my opinion and i respect all of your opinions.


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

The most recent form of this discussion can be found here, with most pro-responses being from a saddlebred background.

http://www.horseforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=8883


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## FreedomRider (Jun 23, 2008)

I LOVE saddle seat! I've ridden it for 5 years, but I understand what you mean. Cruelty depends on the trainer and owners.


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## kickshaw (May 7, 2008)

For those of who who think the sport is "dumb" and looks "goofy", how else would you propose you ride a horse that naturally goes like this?

*(and that's right, no CHAINS or SORING...he is barefoot behind with a plain shoe on the front, covered with white bell boots. This is Charmed and Bewitched)*









*and how 'bout this one? Reserve World Champion in hand as a yearling (no shoes here! - - no ginger either!) This is RWC Princess Mia*









*Personally, I just can't see a horse with a build and center of balance like this doing (traditional) hunters, or (traditional) western...do you? *










*PS - not just Saddlebreds are ridden saddleseat! Check out this Friesian strutting his stuff...no "6 inch shoes" here!*









*and here is a walking horse...(GASP!) with NO CHAINS and NO SORING...and it's FLAT SHOD! (that's right, no pads! and it's a world champion!) *









[ON SOAPBOX]
I don't know a lot about many disciplines. Actually, as a hard rule, I think most of us "don't know" more than you "know" when it comes to the horse world...and as previously posted, it is better to first educate yourself on the things you "don't know" instead of condemning the whole of the sport for a likely amateur who isn't performing the style (whatever it may be) correctly. 
[OFF SOAPBOX]

PS - I love my Saddlebred!


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

Thank you Kirkshaw. Be careful with your INTERNET YELLING and *gasp* mock-shock, though. We don't want to look like snobs who have thier "nighties in a knot" over some bad things said. You will find this everywhere and you cannot get your point across if you respond like you are being attacked. Glad you are here though. We need more like ya. REPRESENT! Huah! lol Read through the other SS thread, it is the most recent(this one is from last year), and I think JrChloe and I and others have done a fair job dispelling myths and misconceptions.

I think that yearling has plates on in front. Most in hand young uns generally are lightly shod for the shows.


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## kickshaw (May 7, 2008)

haha... no nighties in a knot here.... it's very much a hurdle (as you know) to try to explain something to someone who "generalizes" everything...aka all saddleseat horses are sored and all of them wear ginormous packages on their feet. the CAPS were emphasis...and i see they got your attention  no yelling - promise!

you may be right about that baby...when i saw her at the reimers' she didn't have them on ...(of course that wasn't Louisville, either  )


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## breezeypoo&lt;3 (May 27, 2008)

i absolutely loveee saddleseat...
i have tried other disciplines, but nothing is as challeging between a horse & rider [as far as being a team goes]. i have never once seen a rocky mnt horse having any of those contraptions you were talking about, except if its a pacey horse they occasionally put light chains on them to make them pick there feet up so that they are in their "gait".

diss it all u want...its not like you're going to change any of us saddleseat riders minds about which discipline we ride.


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## ericajo (Jun 30, 2008)

The only problem i have with saddleseat riding is the way the horses head is with the bit. But then again that happens, when you jump, and pull back. I just really dont like bits. I use a natural bitless bridle.
But here ares some photos on what i mean. 
http://www.showhorsetraining.com/images/big/deanna2.jpg
http://www.bradyfarm.com/gen_eirelowres.jpg
http://fairoakfarmarabians.com/photos/scrapbook/saddleseat.jpg
I just hate looking at them, and seeing his poor head like that. I love the natural bitless bridle because it looks more comfortable.
http://www.naturalhorseworld.com/products/LRBridle.jpg
http://www.bitlessbridle.co.uk/shop/images/newmarket-bay.jpg

But i do agree with everyone. I hate it when people dis something i like. I was watching a video and this girl was talking about how she has back problems and what not. ANd how mad she was about it because she had to go to western riding and that all you do is sit on the horse.
OMG i was P***** off! 
There are more things you can do with western riding, and i think its alot funner, i do not like english riding that much (own reasons that im not going to say because im sure there are people on here that ride english and love it)


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## C-Bear (Jul 1, 2008)

Vidaloco said:


> Sorry didn't mean to insult anyone  I do agree there is cruelty in all animal areas. I hear all the time about riding gaited horses isn't really riding (I ride a gaited horse) and trail riders are all old geezers who shouldn't be on a horse. So I know how it is when someone disses your riding style or horse. I'm always amazed how many people dislike gaited horses :? Who knows, but I love mine.


i have never ridden a gaited horse before are their gaits smooth?


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## kickshaw (May 7, 2008)

erica jo, the difference between saddleseat horses and (let's say western horses) is that they are built completely differently. Their heads naturally go up...they aren't built straight out like TB and QH's are- take a look at this illustration...maybe it will help you see what I see 










In 2 of the pictures you posted, the horses are actually really nice, and the rider is doing a great job communicating. The last picture is a good one too, but from an equitation standpoint, her hands should be lower (more in line with her belly button for that particular horse)

Also, don't know if you've ever ridden a *nice* saddleseat horse, but when your hands go up, their head comes up and nose comes in like a chesspiece...it's just how they go - there is no hauling and seesawing on the bit - they just sit there perched on it. 

(here notice the actual laxness of the reins and he's only holding them with one hand  This is Manilla Thrilla )









C-Bear, the gaits are incredibly smooth! The rack (or running walk for tennessee walking horses) is a gaited horse's version of a trot as far as speed goes...but you literally don't move in the saddle. it is a 4 beat lateral gait, with each foot hitting the ground independently. I've posted this video - look at how still the riders are able to stay:

foot pattern: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIN-6oyJZ4M

smoothness: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DytqyLjJd0A&feature=related

PS- I love my saddlebred!


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## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

Kickshaw you cannot tell if a horse has been sored if you don't watch it walk or get off the trailer. Thats why the trainers have gotten so good at hiding it. I think it's incredible sad that they have to do that. Now I can see using weights to get the horse to use more effort then take them off to get the feet to lift up higher. (since none of those horses pick up there feet that high naturally. They do there gait lower.). But soreing them is rediculous.


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

Are we talking about the issue of SORING or the dicipline of SADDLESEAT. They are two separate issues completely. Of all the breeds that actively participlate in the dicipline(Saddlebreds, Morgans, Arabs, KMHs, TWHs, Fresians, Andalusians, to name a few) ONE breed is known to sore, and that is the TWH. They are the ONLY breed who "Stack" thier horses, they are the only breed who "sore" thier horses, and they are the only breed(with maybe the exception of the KMH and other strictly gaited breeds) who do not trot.

The thing is, you cannot sore a Trotting horse.

Since I only know Saddlebreds, and only show Saddleseat(I'll add another dicipline soon), I will tell you how you can tell if a Saddlebred is sore(not sorED). And you CAN very easily, tell.

If a saddlebred is sore, he will travel "off". He will pick up his legs unevenly, meaning one knee will raise higher than the other. 

If a saddlebred is sore, his head will bob noticeably when he steps on his sore foot. 

If a saddlebred is sore he will not "use his legs", meaning he will not pick his feet up as high as he normally does. 

---

A horse with great pain in his feet will have a tendency to lay down a lot and be reluctant or have trouble getting up. Do not mistake this for a sleeping horse. A lot of my horses, especially the younger ones, will sleep laying down noticeably more. Shows are stressful, and take a lot out of one. 


As to them not picking thier feet up high naturally, meet my yearling Zoltan. He travels like this every day with no encouraging. Notice, no shoes, no chains, no stretchies....This colt has never seen a pair of chains yet, though he will when he is put in training to help develop his timing. 









And here is Daniel, on his first outing after surviving Joint Ill in his stifle. If ANY horse would have a reason to be sore, this boy would have. He recovered fully, to our surprise and that of our vet. And he is turning out to be a FINE colt. 









Daniel's mother.










Being high stepping and high headed is what we BREED for. And if we are smart, we do a pretty good job at it.

---

And horse_luver, you are actually quite wrong about people adding a bunch of weight and then taking it off suddenly to make them pick thier feet higher, because it wouldn't work.

Horses pull against pressure, so "in theory" adding weight will make them lift their legs higher, and taking it off will do just the opposite, especially after the addition of weight.

The idea with saddlebreds is to achieve that high step without much weight. With careful breeding and good training, this can and is accomplished. 

CH My-My, one of the greatest Saddlebreds in history, and trained by one of the greatest Saddlebred trainers in history, wore* 12 oz shoes*. One year at the Championships, she threw a shoe in the warm up ring, and instead of risking her performance to the show farrier, he had him pull the other shoe. She won that year barefoot. Her trainer was no stranger to strange shoeing either.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Aww they are soo cute.


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## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

> And horse_luver, you are actually quite wrong about people adding a bunch of weight and then taking it off suddenly to make them pick thier feet higher, because it wouldn't work.


Sorry LadyDreamer, but my friend that lives down the road from me trains her gaited horses that way and it is very successful. I've ridden a couple of her horses and they are amazing. But I just hate it that a majority of the trainers still sore them it's like can't you just play fair? I just don't think it's fair that a good trainer trains his saddleseat horse humanely and tries there best in a show and then some trainer wannabe brings his poor sored horses in and they win becuase they 'look better'. And the judges never know. what a shame.


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

You are condemning a Dicipline because of a Breed. Again, are we talking SORING or are we talking SADDLESEAT? 

Like I said, there are MANY breeds that actively participate in Saddleseat, not all of them gaited, not all of them TWHs or Saddlebreds. 

I don't think you have her correct on the shoeing. The science is all wrong(and shoeing is a science and an art). Horses do not respond to the addition or removal of weight as we would. My brother in law is a farrier for one of the top barns in KY. He has taught me much, as has my father who has shod our horses for the last thirty years. They demonstrated for me on a little gelding not too long ago, for me, who was about to be put in the Western Pleasure division because he could not lift his legs. 

Maybe TWHs are different than Saddlebreds, but he'd have been lucky not to trip over a fence pole with how he traveled after he was reset.

With Saddlebreds, you CAN'T sore them. They are the Epitome of Saddleseat Show horse. How we play dirty is by money, not by killing our horses. The politics are there, and the community will let a judge know when he did wrong. Where judges in our world go wrong is when they tie a name over a horse in a class.


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## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

It kinda evoved into soreing. :lol:
My friend has TWH, Saddlebreds, Morgans, and NSH? I don't know much about NSH but yeah she has all them. I can't remember if she sold all her Morgans or not...but anyway there I go again! :lol: 
Yeah that training technique with the weights works for her. I don't have a problem with it. But anyway just wanted to share a storey. I have another friend I talk to and she trains horses she has 4. And her first horse was TWH mare. When she met her she was just showing her in saddleseat and she didn't talk much to the trainers and she didn't know anything about soreing. She would work with her a little but she never really saw what was going on 'behind closed doors' you know? Untill one day she was heading to a show and she saw them unload off the trailer and she just fell down! They couldn't get her up for 10min! It was then she found out that she had been sored. Becuase of the blisters and white hair around her coronet band. Her mom bought her for her and now she's sound. But she said that her cruel trainers before had taught her to not show any pain when the DQP's press on her coronet band by burning her tounge with a ciggarette everytime she flinched! She told me you could drive a nail through her coronet band and she wouldn't move.  It's so awful what people do for money.
Sorry guys, I'm bored and rambling!


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

That's okay. Not worried here.

My mom said that "back in the day" when it was common for Saddlebred shows and TWH shows to be held together that a lot of the TWHs had to be beaten to get them up because they couldn't stand for very long.

Then again, back then, they cantered in almost every TWH class. Now not so much, so I have heard.


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## kickshaw (May 7, 2008)

> Kickshaw you cannot tell if a horse has been sored if you don't watch it walk or get off the trailer.


I never said you could. 

What i DID say is that soring *only *occurs in breeds that do *NOT* trot (aka walking and racking horses) - - not the saddlebred or any other saddleseat breed 

think about it...wouldn't you be able to tell if your horse was sore (from anything) at the trot?? Wouldn't you see his head bob? short stridedness? Same principle here.


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## breezeypoo&lt;3 (May 27, 2008)

If everyone wants to fight over the issue of soring, CREATE ANOTHER TOPIC. This was suppose to be about the apperant stupidity of the saddleseat discipline. Feel free to argue about it all you want, because those of you that are for it, Ill back you up until the day they hit my in the face with that first spade of dirt...just keep it on topic.


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## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

I don't know why you guys get so fired up about this stuff. It's a forum. Have some fun. :roll: 

You know I seen someone acually riding there belgian draft saddleseat! That was the weirdest thing I have ever seen! lol


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

I would say that Belgians are the...."soft spot draft" for a lot of Saddleseat folks. You see those a lot at saddlebred shows if they offer an open class. They are good horses. Those and the Fresian Fad. 

Belgians are so big and "cuddly" and common. I am IN LOVE with the Horse "Titan" who is available for adoption at Saddlebred Rescue. He is SO cool! I want I want.

And yes, we get fired up. We get very sick and tired about having to defend the dicipline. I try not to as much, because getting mad and fussing doesn't get you any where, but I do try to explain as best I can.

I would say the OTHER Anti-Saddleseat thread further down the list is much more...CALM than this one.


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## kickshaw (May 7, 2008)

breezeypoo<3 said:


> If everyone wants to fight over the issue of soring, CREATE ANOTHER TOPIC. This was suppose to be about the apperant stupidity of the saddleseat discipline. Feel free to argue about it all you want, because those of you that are for it, Ill back you up until the day they hit my in the face with that first spade of dirt...just keep it on topic.


touche'


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## geewillikers (May 4, 2008)

I like gettin fired up!!!! :lol:


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

I found this topic to be quite offending. All I have ever done with my horses is Hunter/Jumpers and a few of your more typical english disciplines. Why get onto something that you guys don't like. 

I wouldn't like someone writing a topic about the "stupidity of hunter/jumpers" :roll:


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## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

Oh it's no big deal. It's not keeping anyone from doing that sport. If people do saddleseat, great!  I just don't like the cruelty on it. 

(By the way, don't get so fired up on the title. It's just to grab attention. :wink: )


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

horse_luver4e said:


> Oh it's no big deal. It's not keeping anyone from doing that sport. If people do saddleseat, great!  I just don't like the cruelty on it.
> 
> (By the way, don't get so fired up on the title. It's just to grab attention. :wink: )


and you did well :roll:


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

geewillikers said:


> I like gettin fired up!!!! :lol:


I'm a Saddlebred person, born and raised, so ....... SO DO I!!! As we say "Yeah boy!"


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## Saskatchewan (Jan 9, 2012)

First off, I have no experience with saddleseat and don't claim to. As with any style of riding, I would be against any form of abuse or cruelty towards horses. I don't imagine that there is a style of riding where someone couldn't critisize something about it. I think what bothers me the most is the generalizing of the sport. I don't like when any race, gender, horse breed or whatever is generalized. There are good and bad people, good and bad horses. Everyone has their right to their opinion but if you put out a harsh opinion on something you have to expect people to react harshly.


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## ShinaKonga (Jun 24, 2010)

So you posted that title to get people's attention, and now that you got that attention, you want the thread to be locked? Really?


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## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

ShinaKonga said:


> So you posted that title to get people's attention, and now that you got that attention, you want the thread to be locked? Really?


:rofl:


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Old thread. But THIS old thread is better: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeds/saddleseat-how-has-not-been-outlawed-8206/


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## ShinaKonga (Jun 24, 2010)

bubba13 said:


> Old thread. But THIS old thread is better: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeds/saddleseat-how-has-not-been-outlawed-8206/


Oh my GOD. This is from 2008!

I'm going to go be embarrassed elsewhere now.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

2007, actually. :wink:


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

drop_your_reins said:


> well I personally think its rude to discredit any discipline on the basis of prejudice. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I would receive a lot of backlash if I went around saying "oh i hate this breed their so ugly or they serve no purpose.. etc." My opinion is that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
> 
> I've ridden many seats. I started at a hc hunter/jumper farm, I've taken my Morgan gelding Hunters, Jumpers, Western Pleasure & Eq, Hunter Pleasure & Eq, and Dressage. I've driven horses, and I ride saddleseat. I've also taken polo cross & sidesaddle lessons. I would ride a thoroughbred around the one mile if given the chance, same thing with a standardbred (well er drive). I currently ride at two H/J farms and ride a variety of breeds, in addition to the farm where I keep my horse. But my favorite discipline is saddleseat. I'm in the finalization process of a new morgan filly (yay me!) who I want to take saddleseat hopefully English Pleasure.. but she's a long way from the show ring since I'm training her.
> 
> ...


Well I have to say I didn't know a lot of that. It definitely changed my opinion about saddleseat... to even worse than it was before. I think I'll leave things there.


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## Eileen (Aug 25, 2010)

Not all trail riders are old geezers. our stable is filled with girls aged 15 years old who own at least one horse some even own 2, It is not a fancy barn nor fancy riders just pleasure riders both English and Western, who love their horses and love trail riding together they even go camping with their horses.


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## sirgalahadkem (Apr 24, 2012)

Vidaloco said:


> Sorry didn't mean to insult anyone  I do agree there is cruelty in all animal areas. I hear all the time about riding gaited horses isn't really riding (I ride a gaited horse) and trail riders are all old geezers who shouldn't be on a horse. So I know how it is when someone disses your riding style or horse. I'm always amazed how many people dislike gaited horses :? Who knows, but I love mine.


I miss my Standardbred Pacer! She ruined me for "normal" horses. I have a paint with a trot that is bone shattering!!! I also rode saddlebreds in college... I was actually looking for one when I found my paint that was in desperate need of a rescue!


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## Twhgirl2 (Mar 13, 2011)

horse_luver4e said:


> Has anyone heard of saddleseat riding? What is the purpose of that? Sry but I think it's weird and they are so cruel to those horses.


 I hate to sound rude. But don't judge us. I ride TWH horses and the fact your saying we are cruel to them is wrong. Not all of us are cruel. Saddle seat isn't a dumb riding style. Thats like someone saying the way you ride is stupid. Not every walking horses is padded either. Not every walking horse is sored. Not ever walking horse is in pain. A horse has NEVER broken its leg in the show ring from these actions of the pads. Racehorses, drop all the time. Hunters, drop occasionally. Its something you can't judge unless you actually have been there. Ridden them. Shown them and know the cruel trainers from the nice ones. That is all.


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## RosiePosie06 (Jun 3, 2012)

Is soring a problem with park horses like it is for Big Lick horses? Sorry if this was stated already, I don't want to read all ten pages.

I'm curious simply because they do lift their feet REALLY high. However I think it's pretty... I'll be dissappointed if I find out a majority of them are abused


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## Twhgirl2 (Mar 13, 2011)

RosiePosie06 said:


> Is soring a problem with park horses like it is for Big Lick horses? Sorry if this was stated already, I don't want to read all ten pages.
> 
> I'm curious simply because they do lift their feet REALLY high. However I think it's pretty... I'll be dissappointed if I find out a majority of them are abused


 They only step high because of the shoes. Some trainers who are greedy do sore. But NO not all are sored. Its a tradition.. Stopping the TWH shows because of unruly trainers is like stopping pro golf because of Tiger wood's actions.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Ha! There is some RESURRECTION POWER in this thread... It is from 2007!


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

texasgal said:


> Ha! There is some RESURRECTION POWER in this thread... It is from 2007!


No kidding. Don't see why someone dredged it back up 5 YEARS LATER. :-x


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## DressageDreamer (Feb 29, 2012)

Speed Racer said:


> No kidding. Don't see why someone dredged it back up 5 YEARS LATER. :-x


Sentimental value?? JK :lol:


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

RosiePosie06 said:


> Is soring a problem with park horses like it is for Big Lick horses? Sorry if this was stated already, I don't want to read all ten pages.
> 
> I'm curious simply because they do lift their feet REALLY high. However I think it's pretty... I'll be dissappointed if I find out a majority of them are abused


Argh, let old threads die. This had to be searched for.

Saddlebred/Morgan/Arab etc Park horses are not sored, because you cannot sore a trotting horse. The mechanics of the trot is different from the walking horse gait. A trotting horse that is in pain or sore or off just a little bit will lose all "motion". Shoeing can help, but if a trotting horse is not born with the ability, no amount of shoeing or training will give it to them. We call these horses western pleasure prospects, hunt seat prospects, and sport prospects. LOL!

American Saddlebreds are specifically bred to have that high knee action, and it is exhibited from birth. 

That is not to say that Saddlebreds are not abused, as there is PlENTY of abuse going around, it is just that soring is not one of them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RosiePosie06 (Jun 3, 2012)

Thanks for answering!

Sneaking off to let this thread die now that I've been told how old it is...


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## Tejas (Jan 31, 2011)

I personally do "leisure" riding. I don't compete in anything and never have. I have always been a spectator at shows etc. 
From a stranger's perspective with no education at all on this style of riding I must say that it does look rather uncomfortable for the horse. It looks like a very "strict" riding style. I feel like the horse isn't able to move in a natural and comfortable way. I wonder what kind of extensive training and tools goes into this riding style. 
I've watched someone ride their Saddlebred horse in this style and..there seem to be so many "tie downs" and "restraints" . I almost feel bad for the horses.

My opinion is that this riding style is more for the rider's image and comfort. There is supposed to be a sense of "we work as a team" between you and your horse. When I see Saddle Seat I think of " I am the boss and you are the servant". I feel like most people who watch Saddle Seat would feel sorry or bad for the horse. It appears so uncomfortable and uptight.

Again..That is just my opinion.....


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

Really? 

To be honest, most people you will find in the stands at a Saddlebred Show, or watching online, feel that these are the most beautiful horses in the world. Horses that are exuberant, beautiful, and have tons of personality. Claiming that "most people who watch Saddleseat" would feel the same as you is absurd. 

Usually, the comment I hear most about our riding style is that we are just passengers. This is the first time I have heard our style looks like servitude. 

To me, you find servitude in Dressage. Every movement strictly controlled. Every action must be precise and perfect or it counts drastically against you. Not knocking dressage. Precision is great. Our horses are allowed to show some life, some personality. They are allowed some mistakes. They are allowed to show that they are living beings with minds. They are allowed to do what they are bred for. 

I am just speaking Saddlebreds, as they are my life. I cannot say a thing about any other breed.


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## Tejas (Jan 31, 2011)

What Im saying is that compared to a mustang running wild and free, dressage and saddle seat looks like servitude to me. That's just my opinion.

Your average person without horse knowledge wouldn't understand all of the tack used to keep the horses head held a certain way, and posture kept the way it is...


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

Again, with Saddlebreds, that high neck and head carriage is bred for and cannot be made, just like the motion. 

As silly as it sounds, some newcomers actually come in asking questions, instead of making assumptions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tejas (Jan 31, 2011)

I visited a nearby facility and watched a "reputable trainer" and she had several leather straps/restraints on her Saddlebred gelding in training. I asked her what they were for and her response was "to keep his head positioned properly." I apologize. I was under the assumption that they were MADE to carry their heads so high. I didn't know they were born that way.


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## ShinaKonga (Jun 24, 2010)

Guys... Seriously... This thread is SO old, LOL.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Maybe folks should start a new thread on Saddle seat riding, but please don't title it "the dumbest kind of riding". At least give it a chance to be anything more than a pigpile brawlfest.


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## Tejas (Jan 31, 2011)

I'm actually learning a lot by reading it. I am a TX gal. I pull my horse from a pasture and hop on. This whole time I was under the impression these horses are forced to carry their heads high and step high. Come to find out they are born this way and tend to enjoy showing off?

I still disagree with some of the training methods/tools that I am reading about. :\ Although you find that with any discipline...
I bet it's fun to ride a Saddlebred horse. I've always thought horses enjoyed running free in an open pasture, and not being in a stable. 

It's hard to picture a well mannered/disciplined Saddlebred running free with a few mustangs. 

I'd like to look into their history more. I know all horses originated from somewhere. I wonder how they bred them to step so high and carry their heads that way...


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

Once I reclaim my computer from my dad, who is watching a horse show webcast at the moment, I will post a few videos for you. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Saddlebreds can be magnificent trail horses with amazing stamina and spirit.


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## Tejas (Jan 31, 2011)

Sounds good! I'm interested in seeing them in their natural environment or out to pasture and not in show. I'd like to see the difference in both.


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

I started a new Saddlebred Thread.


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## Eileen (Aug 25, 2010)

I've seen weighted boots to train them to raise them high, without pain or special shoes. That is how they did it at the one stables I boraded at many long years ago.


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## DimSum (Mar 28, 2012)

tinyliny said:


> Maybe folks should start a new thread on Saddle seat riding, but please don't title it "the dumbest kind of riding". At least give it a chance to be anything more than a pigpile brawlfest.


Disclaimer: The following is for entertainment purposes only and is NOT directed at any poster or post. Just some words of wisdom to contemplate :wink: brought to mind by tinyliny's post...

My granny used to have a favorite saying, "Never get in a mudfight with a pig. All you get is dirty and the pig likes it."


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## Laures (Aug 8, 2011)

I know nothing of saddlebreds,but it looks like fun!
They remind me a bit of Tuigpaarden (Dutch Harness Horses,you guys say),I like them. Tuigpaarden aren't shown under saddle (most of the time) but most of the horses also ride under saddle


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Laures said:


> I know nothing of saddlebreds,but it looks like fun!
> They remind me a bit of Tuigpaarden (Dutch Harness Horses,you guys say),I like them. Tuigpaarden aren't shown under saddle (most of the time) but most of the horses also ride under saddle
> 
> Tuigpaard Hengstenkeuring 2010 Zwolle DHH stallionshow 2010 - YouTube


 
Here in America, we cross the Dutch Harness Horse to the Arabians to get a HOT HOT HOT, high trotting, flashy saddleseat riding horse. Not a horse for everyone but WOW they are fun to watch.


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## Paintlover1965 (May 22, 2009)

Just putting this out there. I have an Arabian/American Saddlebred gelding and he was a former show horse in WP,EP, Arab classes, Saddlebred classes and driving classes all before I purchased him. I don't show him now but I enjoy watching saddleseat at local competions as well as other classes. He now has shown me how versatile a horse he really is. He is naturally gaited with a very comfortable ride and I couldn't find a better horse if I tried. He may not be the best at everything but he sure gives 110%. With myself as owner he trail rides, jumps small jumps, can western game, drives in a two person cart, and I just started team penning with him this past Saturday and he was awesome. This may be off topic but I wanted to say how a saddleseat horse can do other things too. I think he enjoys the variety as he is extremely intelligent. I love the Arab/Saddlebred cross.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

watched that video of the Dutch harness horses. Wow! they are something to behold. I like how their tails are not broken to make them stand upright (that IS a cruel practice). 

The guys that show those horses must be in good shape!


Here is the link to the new thread about the American Saddlebred horse. Really a neat thread:

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-bre...dlebred-126479/?highlight=American+Saddlebred


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## DimSum (Mar 28, 2012)

Laures said:


> I know nothing of saddlebreds,but it looks like fun!
> They remind me a bit of Tuigpaarden (Dutch Harness Horses,you guys say),I like them. Tuigpaarden aren't shown under saddle (most of the time) but most of the horses also ride under saddle
> 
> Tuigpaard Hengstenkeuring 2010 Zwolle DHH stallionshow 2010 - YouTube


Wow, thank you for posting that video! Such awesome moving horses


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## Twhgirl2 (Mar 13, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> watched that video of the Dutch harness horses. Wow! they are something to behold. I like how their tails are not broken to make them stand upright (that IS a cruel practice).
> 
> The guys that show those horses must be in good shape!
> 
> ...


Ive never heard of someone breaking a horses tail to make it stand up o.o on walking horses they use a harness that attaches to the saddle.


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## CapitalVendetta (Jun 12, 2012)

Saddleseat riding is different i will agree with that and yes some people are cruel. But most (atleast saddlebred people) dont "force" the horse to step and hold their head that way. Yes they put the weighted shoes and chains on, but if a horse is not cutout to be a saddleseat horse they get rid of them. Thats how I got my saddlebred. He wasnt comfortable holding his head that high and even with the weighted shoes he didnt like picking his feet up like that. His owner didnt want to give him to the amish she wanted him to go to a hunte/jumper rider. Now the breeding of saddlebreds has gotten to the point were their not cut out for "Traditional Showing" so they become sporthorses. In fact ASHA has recently opened its circuit up to Hunter riders too. Another myth is that they "break" their tailbones. I promise you they do not I have seen what they do done. The vet clips a tendon in the tail that keeps it from stretching back too far. Then the set it in a tail set. Saddlebred show horses are constantly in a tail set because if you take it off and leae it off it will go to its natural possition. And yes they can still swish their tails. I have learned that with gaited horses their is more than meets the eye. Yes they can be cruel to thir horses but then again I know people who are just as cruel to their jumpers, hunter, barrel racers, reiners, eventers, dressage horses, and other disciplines. I understand were your comming from because until I started working for a saddlebred owner I too thought that saddleat was cruel and the horses were crazy.


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## Eileen (Aug 25, 2010)

I remember riding a couple of saddlebreds over the years that didn't have anything special done to get them set their head, tail, or pick up their feet. They just did it like they were proud to be the breed they were and I think it's true of the breed the other things done to them, is to get them to do these things to the extreme


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## Jalter (Oct 5, 2012)

I posted a similar thread a few weeks ago, with the zame opinion as you. the reins look too tight, their heads look too high, and the rider seems too far on the horses back. Though I never got an answer about the saddle placement, the other things were explained. The horse naturally carries it's head very high, Saddlebreds are bred for that conformation. As for the reins, they may look tight, but many people were trained with tissues as reins. It's comstant contact with the mouth, but not harsh contact. 

Like any equine sport, there are people who aren't as humane about it, but thats the specific person, not the sport. Not my favorite style of riding, but everyone has different tastes.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Jalter said:


> I posted a similar thread a few weeks ago, with the zame opinion as you. the reins look too tight, their heads look too high, and the rider seems too far on the horses back. Though I never got an answer about the saddle placement, the other things were explained. The horse naturally carries it's head very high, Saddlebreds are bred for that conformation. As for the reins, they may look tight, but many people were trained with tissues as reins. It's comstant contact with the mouth, but not harsh contact.
> 
> Like any equine sport, there are people who aren't as humane about it, but thats the specific person, not the sport. Not my favorite style of riding, but everyone has different tastes.



I will explain about the saddle's placement.

These horses have immense shoulder movement, have sloping shoulders too, and if you ever sat one bareback when it was moving, where the rider is sitting in the saddle, that looks so odd? Is actually where you would be sitting bareback too.

Their backs are also quite long, compared to many other breeds, but if rider were too far back, as it does seem to those that don't ride them? Rider would be thrust forwards with each step.

But I can assure you, if you can ride bareback on one just once, and "feel" where you should be? You would naturally be riding right there.


And as an aside to something about broken tails in this world of ASB's. They are NOT broken, nor reset, and the tailset is not attached to the saddle in any of the breeds that wear one. The tailset has a surcingle, and breastcollar and various leather pieces as well as crupper too. No way to be using it, with its sheepskin or fleece pads, under a saddle, harness or under rider.

They call the tail a "breakover", as in it is raised with bustles and then put into set as horse learns to carry it. We referred to them as "broke" tails. But not broken bones in them, and in fact, if you took one out of tailset, tail would eventually look like any horse's.

Great care is taken with these horses, they are much loved by the people who care for them, and own them and train them. Very smart horses too and great personalities.

One on my string, barn name Bert, reg name Diamond Kite, liked to take 10am nap, and nap at 2 pm. So we worked around "his schedule". He was a hoot too. Loved Cola Chapstick, I would put some on his lips and he would be so impressed. Cool horse indeed. He also snored loud enough to wake barn.


Others preferred to work in morning, some in afternoon. Danny didn't want to work first, but wanted to be no later than 3rd to work. And had to have a snack with us at 10am too. Dill pickle potato chips, hot dog with bun and mustard and Coke. Shared mine every day with him.

And Old Money, at Louisville, where they place TV's in alleyway? Had to be able to see TV as he like watching the show, even moving around to see past people who stopped in his way. I even told people they had to move, so he could see.

Great horses.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I have heard a lot of people say that Saddlebreds are overloaded with personality. So, I guess it's true!


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

tinyliny said:


> I have heard a lot of people say that Saddlebreds are overloaded with personality. So, I guess it's true!


 
Absolutely true! Most of them have fantastic senses of humor. Yes, there are a few more serious individuals but even they will usually have little quirks that make them special to someone.

I also had one years ago that was a "napper" In the mid morning, Gypsy would lay down flat out and snore like an old man. Usually a good hour of constant LOUD snoring. Then she was game for anything but don't mess up her sleep schedule. ha ha One time I remember she was taken out during her normal naptime and she acted like she just didn't have the energy to move. She was such a slug. It is almost always easier to work around the quirks then try to ask them to change. ha ha

Amazing horses and MOST of the owners are amazing too. So sad there are still those that want to make such harsh judgements on a breed of horse or a whole riding style.


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

I just realized that someone resurrected a very very old thread here. Not sure what the point of that was.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Saddleseat is beautiful, even though I haven't ever been interested in it or in Saddlebreds. However, those SB's that are in Equifest every year with those beautiful wagons are very tempting.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

Many years ago I took a few saddleseat lessons riding a Saddlebred. It turned out not to be my thing but I will say this...that was a Cadillac ride!


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Many riders are sent to learn to ride Gaited Horses as it develops such soft hands, and a feel for the horse.

And it is like riding in a Cadillac...

One of the hardest things for me when riding another breed, is you are not looking through the ears....kept looking for the head!


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## Fulford15 (Oct 17, 2012)

I have never seen so many Gaited Horse owners until I came onto this forum, and after reading their posts I have learnt a lot about the horses and think it is a beautiful thing to watch!

I was lucky enough to ride a Gaited horse a friend of mine was leasing. Was it ever a hoot!!


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