# Starting a livery



## DannyBoysGrace (Apr 6, 2013)

My dad knows somebody with a racing yard. 18 stables in an American style barn but only 14 acres. 1/2 mile gallops and a round horse walker with rubber mats. And a small outdoor arena.
My dad is considering renting the place and starting a multi-discipline livery yard.
He hopes to set up an area for tea and food.
There is only one tack/feed room but it is very secure.

He's thinking of putting a cross country course in the largest field. Very quiet country roads lead to forestry so you have the possibility of road work and hacking.
He's hoping to fill 10 stables.
How much would you pay for D.I.Y. livery with full access to all facilities? Also, if the walker is expensive to run, how much would you be willing to pay for its use?
Each horse would have somewhere for rugs to dry.

He would also have the option to do full livery when owners go on holidays.

Thank you.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

fees all depend on your area. Are you supplying feed ? straw or shavings ? are talking box stalls ? or more of a mare motel ?


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## Mingiz (Jan 29, 2009)

Have you checked your laws for running a stable? Have you checked into liability ins. that most horse business' have to have? That alone is a big expense. Even if your offering self care it's a good thing to have. Are you going to have space for turn out? There's a lot to consider when running a stable.:wink: 14 acres isn't really enough land to support 10 horses.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

I have 12 horses here on ten acres. some horses are on pasture, some are in pens.
I feed alfalfa hay and my horses do just fine. Now if you are talking grazing only then I would need a lot more land and different place to live. the OP does not state where he/she is located.
Nothing stated in the post said the horses would be grazing only. 
she has more than enough room with a turnout exercise arena.


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

I'd probably pay up to $50 a week for a stable at night, turnout in a paddock (maybe three acres with another horse) during the day, and access to a roundyard and all weather outdoor arena that is well maintained. Shavings would need to be included, all care DIY. 

I'd pay a bit more if the location were excellent.


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

To run a livery you'll need to get a good estimate of the basics, these include, electricity, water/sewage, maintenance, insurance, advertisements, property tax and anything else you'll need to pay to cover your basic expenses each year. Once you have that cost divide it per month to get your monthly amount then divide that between the number of boarders, this is your bottom amount to charge for boarding.

This number doesn't include the possibility of you providing hay and bedding, If these will be included you'll need to figure out how much hay you'd be willing to provide per horse, and how much bedding you'd need to provide per stall. This will increase your baseline.


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## DannyBoysGrace (Apr 6, 2013)

I think my mom is looking into the different laws and insurance because she is used to that sort of thing
Owners would have the choice between just stables or stable and turn out. The fields would be grazed similarly to strip grazing.

My dad so far doesn't want to provide bedding or hay but if boarders chose, they can buy it from him.

The stables are about 9-10ft squared with optional grids over the doors.

Thank you for the responses. I'm sorry for not replying sooner I'm busy doing my leaving certificate.


I was also wondering, what kind of rules would you like to see enforced at a yard?


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

Sounds like you know what you're doing, and that's good. I've seen people get into boarding without a clue and then had to close down shortly afterwards, it's not pretty when that happens.

Nice idea about buying the bedding and hay from your dad.

Ah, what is a leaving certificate? It sounds interesting. I'm in the US, so I don't know certain terms, LOL.

The most basic of rules typically consist of (and I approve of these so long as they're enforced.):
1.No riding/ handling another boarders horse without permission (Just read some of the horror stories on here about that happening.)
2. Children must be supervised/ well mannered or cannot come. (Again, horror stories and downright rudeness.)
3. Basic minimums of health care from owners should be enforced, vaccines, health certificates, things like that.
4. No unruly dogs, if they're allowed at all. (Seen too many aggressive dogs in my time.)
5. Safety headgear must be worn at all time when mounted (and on the ground at some barns.) This is a liability thing from your standpoint.
6. No smoking or drinking on the property (again liability.)

And although it's not a rule it's a good idea to get in writing what happens if the owner quits paying board. In the US a lot of barns can place a lean or the like on a boarders horse to collect the money owed. They can also after a period of time (if it's in the contract) Take full possession of the horse and either keep it as payment rendered or sell it as such. This is typically done if the boarder hasn't paid in 2 to 3 months.

You'll also want to outline when and how payments are due from boarders. You could have it due on the first of each month, or they could pay weekly or bi weekly, depending on how you set it up.

And lastly, don't forget those liability waivers! Make everyone sign one, whether they're there to ride or not. If someone was visiting with a friend and a horse knocked the friend over or anything really, they could try to sue you.


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## DannyBoysGrace (Apr 6, 2013)

The 1st of every month sounds good. Thank you 
I read one of those stories, I was absolutely horrified! Especially the one with the 14 year old girl.
All of those rules are great. 

I was thinking of a few too.
1) No kickers tied in isle.
2) Children aged 14 and under must be accompanied by an adult.
3) No using other peoples equipment unless you have permission. (I am actually really nervous about people using my stuff, so much so that I'm considering using a spare stable as my own tack room and area for my cart.)



Would it be possible to make it so the owners are responsible for their horses actions?
Thank you for your help on this 

We are also going to provide lockers


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## DannyBoysGrace (Apr 6, 2013)

The liability waivers are a very good point.


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## DannyBoysGrace (Apr 6, 2013)

Oh and the leaving certificate is just my final exams. They decide whether or not I get into college.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I would be careful about taking in liveries that are going to be out 24/7 if you only have 14 acres of land in a country that's known for getting a lot of rain - all you want is a month or two of really wet weather in the winter and your paddocks will be ruined and need re-seeding. I would insist on each horse having a stable and if the weather does go against you have it written into the agreement that you can say if they can go out and for how long


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## DannyBoysGrace (Apr 6, 2013)

jaydee, the livery isn't 24/7 turnout but thank you


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

You can't really make horse owner's liable for their horses actions. That's why you're going to have insurance.


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## Chasin Ponies (Dec 25, 2013)

There are couple of things you can that will provide a bit more protection. Require every boarder to pay 1 months rent in advance as a deposit against non-payment of board and any major damage to your property that may be done by the boarder or horse even if it's unintentional.
If you have that extra month's board, it give you a little bit more time to
take action if someone suddenly stops paying. You can either straighten them
out or demand that they move. It does happen that sometimes a boarder will get months behind in payments (usually with some sob story) and then moves their horse out in the middle of the night.

Another idea is to give each boarder a "membership" in the stable somewhat like a private club. This will make your stable less like a public area where strangers just pop in. You don't really want a bunch of strangers wandering around your property to "look at the pretty horses" with no signed liability waivers! Of course, guests of boarders or potential clients are welcome but this makes it easier to eject the unwanted. It also sometimes has the effect of making the boarders more protective of your property.

As a long time boarder I have to advise that you keep the property maintained and quickly fix anything that breaks. Resentment grows quickly among boarders when a water pump breaks and they have to haul water, the arena surfaces get bad or the lane has huge potholes in it. And, although barn drama is impossible to stop completely, take an active role in stopping the worst of it. The boarders can usually work it out themselves but if you get 2 or more complaints about 1 person, you need to jump in and stop the problem. If a strong warning doesn't stop it you need to kick them out.

The quality of your boarders depends on the quality of your stable and how you manage it. If it becomes a miserable place with fighting boarders and poor maintenance your place will develop a bad reputation and the only boarders you will get will be the worst!


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## DannyBoysGrace (Apr 6, 2013)

Chasin Ponies, you have no idea how helpful all of that was, thank you. 

I really like the club membership idea. It's very interesting and could work. 

I assure that my dad would fix anything that breaks nearly straight away and luckily we have automatic troughs so if taps fail, the horses still have water.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

In the UK its the owner of the horse that's responsible for any damage or injury it does unless the owner of the livery yard contributed by being negligent so owners are expected to have 3rd part cover as well as the owner of the yard
Liability waivers are usually worthless if someone decided to sue you and was determined enough
OP - Will someone be living on the property because there used to be a law in the UK (not sure about your part of Ireland) that said if a horse property was run as a business - livery or riding school etc someone had to live on site?


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

Ah, okay, so that's what it is. I was wondering. I had a long week and no coffee to boot and the only thing I could think was " Leave? Leave what?..Where will you go?' LOL.

I like the rules you came up with. Anything that can make your life and the life of your boarders as easy and drama free as possible is best.

I'm always worried about people 'borrowing' my stuff and not returning it also. My instructor bought a large metal shed and put all of her own tack in that, and locked it with a key, if you needed something you had to ask her for the key.
The lockers are wonderful, I wish she'd had those, no 'borrowing' of personal supplies.

Chasin' had a good point about collecting and extra months worth of board.

Another thing to note, if the owners have trailers ( aren't they called horse vans or horseboxes over there?) You can charge a small additional fee to let them park it on your property if you have space. But you'd have to add that to the insurance coverage and it could raise your costs.


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## DannyBoysGrace (Apr 6, 2013)

Thank you for all of the helpful comments and I apologise again for my delayed responses but I just finished my exams today. 
I'm going to link this to my mom again right away.
HorseyChick87, I like the idea of parking. Every bit of extra cash counts in these times. 
Thank you all


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

You're welcome and congratulations on finishing your exams.


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## DannyBoysGrace (Apr 6, 2013)

Thank you. Ended with my favorite subject


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

Ah, I love it when you get to end on a favorite.


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## Mingiz (Jan 29, 2009)

stevenson said:


> I have 12 horses here on ten acres. some horses are on pasture, some are in pens.
> I feed alfalfa hay and my horses do just fine.* Now if you are talking grazing only then I would need a lot more land and different place to live.* the OP does not state where he/she is located.
> Nothing stated in the post said the horses would be grazing only.
> she has more than enough room with a turnout exercise arena.


 

I was...:wink:


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## DannyBoysGrace (Apr 6, 2013)

I decided I would update you.
The owner of the land was a con man who tried to rent the land to someone else while we were renting.

We had taken in a horse who had been abandoned there 6 months prior to us renting. He got the horses books and had him slaughtered after we took him in.

We had to leave because he pushed the rent up, killed our horse and we just couldn't trust him.
As a result, we had to sell my personal pony.
I was going through mental difficulties and he threw me over the edge. 
So unfortunately it didn't work our for us. Thank you to everybody who tried to help


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

Wow, I'm so sorry you had to go through all of that. I hope you are doing okay now.


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## DannyBoysGrace (Apr 6, 2013)

I'm much better now, got counselling, just started medication and I'm saving to buy my pony back. It's made me more determined than ever.
Thank you


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