# Is dressage just for "fancy" horses?



## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Wow that is an AWESOME video, (take THAT warmblood snobs he he) thanks for posting! I actually disagree, I think dressage IS only for fancy horses, I just think that there are many different types of horses that are capable of being fancy 

I had an interesting conversation with an FEI rider a couple of weeks ago regarding my mare. She asked what I planned to do with her and I said 'dressage initially and then I will see if she can jump'

Her response: 'Thoroughbred in dressage, hmmmm, interesting choice'

Grrrr.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

I will have to pass this on to a friend of mine who trains her appy in dressage. He may not have the advanced moves down but he sure looks good staying in frame and balanced!


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

kitten_Val said:


> Came across this video while looking for some other stuff... We have question raised from time to time here if dressage is just for fancy horses (I'm talking about higher level, not basics)... So I decided to post... Hope you'll enjoy the video...
> 
> YouTube - Grand Prix dressage movements



Lets put it this way.

The horse MOST likely to succeed at the top levels are the ones BRED for it...however............

Other breed and breed crosses have also done well and at the higher levels.

Connemara--Seldom Seen

TB...Keen

There is a quarter horse out the tyhat is well up there. But like the western disciplines for example..the horse bred for those classes (quarterhorses) are the ones that will do best.

My own GP horse was a quarab.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Spyder said:


> Lets put it this way.
> 
> 
> TB...Keen
> ...


I LOVE that.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

sarahver said:


> Wow that is an AWESOME video, (take THAT warmblood snobs he he) thanks for posting! I actually disagree, I* think dressage IS only for fancy horses, I just think that there are many different types of horses that are capable of being fancy*


That's an interesting interpretation.  I'd say you may TRAIN a horse to be fancy, even if initially it's not extremely pretty in movements. 

BTW, I think TBs look very nicely in dressage ring with their long legs and wide movement.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Spyder, I'm not arguing at all.  Some breeds were "developed" (for the lack of better word) for dressage, some for jumping, some for cow work, etc. However number of people (and I had a funny experience running into such) truly think that if it's not a fancy warmblood (or _at least_ TB) the horse can't succeed in dressage (or jumping) totally missing the fact that some horses in other breeds can be built and have mentality to go far in "not so typical" disciplines.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

kitten_Val said:


> That's an interesting interpretation.  I'd say you may TRAIN a horse to be fancy, even if initially it's not extremely pretty in movements.
> 
> BTW, I think TBs look very nicely in dressage ring with their long legs and wide movement.


Agreed! 

Besides, I don't need my horses to do complicated dressage movements, I am not under any illusions that I will be off to GP in this lifetime. Besides, the dressage requirements for eventing are much more basic than upper level dressage. Still must be executed with precision of course but I'm certainly not messing around with piaffe and passage. Much rather be flying over 4 foot fences


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## sdellin (Jul 14, 2010)

If you look at the movements in dressage and in western riding you can see many, many similarities. I have an American Paint (large quarterhorse) who was trained western. She is being trained English now with me and she will do dressage, maybe some jumping.

My trainer rides only thoroughbreds and they do dressage and jumping.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

It depends on your definition of "succeed". For most people to "succeed" at something is not simply to do it, but to do it well.
Yes any horse can do dressage, and can be trained to do the movements - usually in the form of "tricks". The video shows a well trained horse - but it does have a lot of trouble with the piaffe which is very common in horses not bred for dressage- they simply do not have the hind end conformation. I know a grade pony that did the GP but had a piaffe much like this Appaloosa's, walking behind.

Now to succeed in dressage you really do need the right conformation, the right mind and the right ability from the horse. To find a horse with these three things in combination and in the right amounts to have the potential to do Grand Prix is rare, even within the warmblood breeds, which is what makes them so expensive.

I am not saying other breeds cannot do the Grand Prix, just that it is extremely difficult that will find one which will succeed at it, even if you are purchasing a warmblood.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

sarahver said:


> Originally Posted by *Spyder*
> _Lets put it this way.
> 
> 
> ...


Hilda Gurney and her TB horse Keen

Keen xx, a Pioneer of American Dressage

Also a good picture of a more MODERN horse with the poll at the highest point.


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## twogeldings (Aug 11, 2008)

Or,

_That horse is to small to do Dressage_.

Oh psh I say! It doesn't matter if the horse is 12hh or 17hh tall, if it has the right mind, the right heart, the right training and the right rider...heck, you can do pretty much anything! 

I'm dead set on working Divo in Dressage, I don't care how small he is :lol: He may not be capable of Grand Prix moves, but he'll definitely be a good Dressage horse. He can trot soooo slowly and animatedly it almost looks like he's preforming the piaffe. 

There are many horses that work cows or jump fences and you think, "Oh, that horse is good at fences but I bet would excel at barrels." or "Oh, that horse is good with cows but I bet would work so well at Dressage"


You definitely don't need fancy, you just need to know what to look for


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

I agree with anebel here. Depends on what you mean by "succeed." For me personally, it's doing a canter half-pass that doesn't completely suck.  No designs on FEI. But I know what I'm looking at.  Any horse with decent conformation and more importantly, good training, can do dressage up to a point. Quarter horses, appys, cobs, fjords, whatever. The appy in the video could do most of the GP movements correctly, though the canter pirouettes looked a bit flat and laboured and she did the "walky" piaffe thing. That's awesome. If I could get my horse to do even a rubbish piaffe, that would be an amazing success. It's more than most of us will get out of our horses. 

BUT to be competitive in international GP dressage, you need something that can do all the movements really correctly and better yet, with a bit of flair. Think of horses like Rembrandt, Bonfire, Brentina, and Blue Horse Matinee. They need the correct conformation and the correct temperament to accept that kind of intense training and have the physical capabilities for those movements. Even then, there are always compromises. Few warmbloods have the piaffe, passage, and canter pirouettes you see in Iberian breeds, which are close coupled and have incredibly powerful hindquarters, and loads of high action. But the Iberian horses, for the most part, don't have the spectacular extensions of the warmbloods. Not many Iberian horses win at international dressage (I saw a few Andalusians and Lusitanos in the last summer Olympics, but they got soundly beat by the WBs. Those big extensions count for a lot). But not many warmbloods are doing haute ecole. They're not built for that extreme collection. 

The point is that for us amateurs who are happy doing dressage at low-ish levels, no, a super fancy horse isn't necessary. You can do correct movements, provided the training is there, but there is a point in dressage progression where the correct execution of certain movements (i.e. piaffe) require the horse to have physical capabilities a lot of horses simply don't have.


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## Amir (Nov 18, 2009)

sarahver said:


> Wow that is an AWESOME video, (take THAT warmblood snobs he he) thanks for posting! I actually disagree, I think dressage IS only for fancy horses, I just think that there are many different types of horses that are capable of being fancy
> 
> I had an interesting conversation with an FEI rider a couple of weeks ago regarding my mare. She asked what I planned to do with her and I said 'dressage initially and then I will see if she can jump'
> 
> ...


HA! Wonder what they'd say about my starting my Egyptian Arab in dressage.
You don't need a fancy-pants horse for dressage.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Amir said:


> HA! Wonder what they'd say about my starting my Egyptian Arab in dressage.
> You don't need a fancy-pants horse for dressage.


Probably the same thing I got from the dressage world when I did.

YOU CAN'T DO IT !


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## twogeldings (Aug 11, 2008)

Oh my, an Arabian doing Dressage? I think I'm in love :lol:

I do miss Blue Hors Matinee, I loved watching her move.


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## QHDragon (Mar 6, 2009)

Nice looking mare, wonder if she is from the Wap Spot line, they produce some fancy appaloosa sport horses. 

I still think it takes a certain type of horse, bred a certain way, with a certain conformation to go all the way to GP. Any horse can do low level dressage though, even up to 1st or 2nd level.


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## twogeldings (Aug 11, 2008)

I have irrefutable proof that you don't need a fancy horse to do Dressage.







Proof I say!


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## inaclick (Jun 6, 2010)

I love this story :






If they could do it, I do believe anyone has a chance to do it.


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

twogeldings said:


> I have irrefutable proof that you don't need a fancy horse to do Dressage.
> 
> YouTube - Men Doing Dressage
> 
> ...


Other advantages of Men include perfect passage and piaffe, but they can also cook and fix your car. My horse doesn't do that!


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

sarahver said:


> Her response: 'Thoroughbred in dressage, hmmmm, interesting choice'
> 
> Grrrr.


But TB's do dressage all the time in eventing. Plus they were the most common breed for English riders at one time. 

I've seen Arabs do Grand Prix movements too. Now _those_ riders had some special talent!


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## Amir (Nov 18, 2009)

Spyder said:


> Probably the same thing I got from the dressage world when I did.
> 
> YOU CAN'T DO IT !


I love Arabs in dressage


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

ponyboy said:


> I've seen Arabs do Grand Prix movements too. Now _those_ riders had some special talent!



I will take that as a compliment...LOL


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

ponyboy said:


> But TB's do dressage all the time in eventing. Plus they were the most common breed for English riders at one time.
> 
> I've seen Arabs do Grand Prix movements too. Now _those_ riders had some special talent!


Exactly my point! TB's may not be bred specifically for dressage as many of the warmblood breeds are, but come on, how many of us are REALLY going to get to a level where it matters? Not many. (Except you Spyder :wink Besides, the dressage movements required in eventing are quite a few levels below what the pure dressage in GP are striving for.

I just LOVE seeing unusual horses excelling in diciplines that they are not classically associated with as I think it really demonstrates the versatility of a good horse with good training.

Now, if someone could find a good video of a 17.2hh Warmblood kicking butt around the barrels please please post as I would love to see it!!


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Spyder said:


> Hilda Gurney and her TB horse Keen
> 
> Keen xx, a Pioneer of American Dressage
> 
> Also a good picture of a more MODERN horse with the poll at the highest point.


Ahhh, now I understand, thanks Spyder you give me hope for my poor lowly TB he he.


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## sdellin (Jul 14, 2010)

twogeldings said:


> I have irrefutable proof that you don't need a fancy horse to do Dressage.
> 
> YouTube - Men Doing Dressage
> 
> ...


****....I can hardly type I'm laughing so hard!


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## MudPaint (Aug 14, 2010)

I love seeing non conventional breeds succeed. Though you will see a common conformational theme with any horse that makes it to the upper levels. The upper movements require a horse that can sit on it's hocks and collect, but still have the suspension and extension. TBs still reign supreme in my book for eventing. They are lithe in the dressage arena and galloping machines. But if I was looking to just do dressage, I'd have to go with a WB. Though I think there's a Mustang out there that is giving the blue bloods a run for their money. 

Now I have to go find tissues as my eyes and nose are running from laughing so hard at the Men doing dressage video.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I believe a very talented rider with a very willing horse can do anything. 

I had a pony as a teenager and every talent I lacked, she made up for with how willing she was. That pony would do anything and do it well. She was 3/4 TB 1/4 Arab.


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## Deerly (Apr 18, 2010)

MudPaint said:


> I love seeing non conventional breeds succeed.


Me too! I'm happy that someone believed in and loved that horse enough to invest the time and money and training to take it to that level! It makes me smile all over!


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## spirithorse8 (Jun 30, 2010)

_The movements of dressage are physically done by unschooled unridden horses. The ancient cavalry riders developed signals to give to the horses in order for them to perform the movements in unison and with precision in battles._

_Any horse of any breed can do dressage, even the biggest Shire_


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Deerly said:


> Me too! I'm happy that someone believed in and loved that horse enough to invest the time and money and training to take it to that level! It makes me smile all over!


Just for your information ...the horse I posted was bought for $250.00 as a 2 1/2 year old and sold to me because it wasn't "fiery" enough. Of course if they fed it and looked after it it would have looked better than the scrawny underweight, 14.2 neglected thing it was. The person's idea of trimming its feet was to use a pair of commercial pliers and as a result suffered from seedy toe all its life.

They couldn't wait to get rid of it to get something "good".


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## MudPaint (Aug 14, 2010)

spirithorse8 said:


> _The movements of dressage are physically done by unschooled unridden horses. The ancient cavalry riders developed signals to give to the horses in order for them to perform the movements in unison and with precision in battles._
> 
> _Any horse of any breed can do dressage, even the biggest Shire_


True but competing is a whole different story. My show jumper was a 14.1 HH quarter pony, she easily did temp changes, pirouettes, and a lot of high level movements, but was not an ideal dressage horse due to her movement, plus she preferred jumping. =) 

When you watch horses play you see a lot of the movements we strive to teach them to do on cue.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

spirithorse8 said:


> _*Any horse *of any breed can do dressage, even the biggest Shire_


Dressage as "basic". I highly doubt though that say my qh will be able to do piaffe ever. She just doesn't have a conformation for that.


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## sdellin (Jul 14, 2010)

Spyder said:


> Just for your information ...the horse I posted was bought for $250.00 as a 2 1/2 year old and sold to me because it wasn't "fiery" enough. Of course if they fed it and looked after it it would have looked better than the scrawny underweight, 14.2 neglected thing it was. The person's idea of trimming its feet was to use a pair of commercial pliers and as a result suffered from seedy toe all its life.
> 
> They couldn't wait to get rid of it to get something "good".


 
You proably saved that horse's life! KUDOS!


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## Deerly (Apr 18, 2010)

Spyder said:


> Just for your information ...the horse I posted was bought for $250.00 as a 2 1/2 year old and sold to me because it wasn't "fiery" enough. Of course if they fed it and looked after it it would have looked better than the scrawny underweight, 14.2 neglected thing it was. The person's idea of trimming its feet was to use a pair of commercial pliers and as a result suffered from seedy toe all its life.
> 
> They couldn't wait to get rid of it to get something "good".


I don't understand your post if it's directed at me. My comment was only about the appy who was posted in the first post. 

I don't know what that has to do with neglected horses :? I was having warm fuzzies about unconventional horses doing awesome things and now I'm confused.


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## MudPaint (Aug 14, 2010)

I think it was an FYI for all of us. Just saying that the horse we're slobbering over came from a less than desirable past because it was deemed not worthy and have since been proven wrong.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Deerly said:


> I don't understand your post if it's directed at me. My comment was only about the appy who was posted in the first post.
> 
> I don't know what that has to do with neglected horses :? I was having warm fuzzies about unconventional horses doing awesome things and now I'm confused.



Deerly, I was simply agreeing with you and pointing out others ( and in this case from personal experience) have made a swan out of an ugly duckling.( or something less than ideal).

It should be an inspiration to others that don't feel they have "the perfect horse" can still do something worthwhile with it.:razz:


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