# Need to vent and get your opinions



## HorseGuru (Feb 28, 2012)

Your not failing your horse. But you can fail as a owner if not getting him away from the trainer ASAP. You have to find a trainer with huge references because I tell you what. Some don't know digglty ****. All talk. That's all he will be happy. Just give him love. He is telling you he wants out. He may get beat or something. Your his leader and he is trying to tell you
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Klassic Superstar (Nov 30, 2009)

I know I can't move him till April maybe a little sooner. My trainer knows alot just isn't the trainer for us come to find out, she means well but is young, doing way to much and it's compermising alot around her. I'm not defending her but know she is trying to get it all to work. I'm going to stop lessons and training so am the only one working with him so there isn't more I have to undo once he is moved.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Sorry to hear that. Until you can move him, talk to your trainer and make it clear that any changes to Oliver's care are cleared through you first. She had no right to "slap some shoes on him." It sounds like you'll be much happier at the new barn, especially with your old horse there.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

equiniphile said:


> Until you can move him, talk to your trainer and make it clear that any changes to Oliver's care are cleared through you first.


She needs to fire the trainer like yesterday. And I am glad to see she's doing it.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

Klassic Superstar said:


> I'm going to stop lessons and training so am the only one working with him so there isn't more I have to undo once he is moved.


Good move.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

Have you gone to your trainer and demanded that the shoes she had put on your horse without your permission be removed at her cost?

I would.


Have you paid for the horseshoes yet?

I would not.


Why can't you move your horse now, or whenever your 30 day notice is up? Is there no room at the new barn? If there are no stalls, have you asked for your horse to be put on pasture board at the new barn until a stall comes open just so you can get him out of where he currently is?

You need to stop feeling "bad" for people who don't respect you as an owner.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

First, I'd tell her no shoes, period and put him on stall rest or pasture if available until he's not sore anymore. 

2nd, I'd tell her she's not to train or work him anymore.

3rd, That farrier is not to come near him again, unless it's to pull the shoes off if you couldn't stop that in time. 

4th, if the new barn has space, I'd pull him out right now, no 30 day notice and I'd dare her to take me to court on it. 

5th, do it all yesterday! 

You're not failing him, you're just not understanding how stupid some trainers can be. Doesn't matter if she's young, bitten off more than she can chew, is scrambling to make it work, etc etc. Not your problem. The fact that your horse is starting to have problems under her care IS your problem and one you'll be correcting for a while. 

I'm a she-devil when it comes to my horses, and trainers and barn help know that going in. I rarely have problems and if I do, I pull the horse right now and I tell the trainer exactly WHY I have pulled the horse, right after the trailer is on it's way down the road. If she's young, hopefully she'll learn.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Klassic Superstar said:


> As of last week he got trimmed, he is barefoot, never had a lame or sore step and has tough feet so doesn't need shoes...well this trim suddenly he is so sore he can't walk and seems to be on his left side more then the right.
> 
> In this phone call I was told he was still sore yesterday when he was being worked and she continued to work him... All the hors who got trimmed are now lame and she is slapping shoes on, seems like something the farrier is doing, not just like 4 solid barefoot horses to go dead lame limping out if the blue... So very upset with that.
> 
> Yes he now has more turnout


Hasn't it been very wet in your area? More turnout in the wet can equal soft, tender soles. That is not a farrier issue.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

mls said:


> Hasn't it been very wet in your area? More turnout in the wet can equal soft, tender soles. That is not a farrier issue.


Any farrier worth their salt would know this and trim accordingly. Also, a barn full of lame barefoot horses that were all previously sound should be setting off alarm bells. Feed and farrier would be what I would blame, not wet ground.
My farrier always asks before he does the horses what their "schedule" for riding and showing is and any other fun tidbits about the horse. If he is doing a horse under a week before an event he is very careful and with new horses is also careful until he finds their "optimum" trim length. He trims several navicular horses barefoot at my barn and they are all sound right after a trim even with wet ground.

Anyways, OP good luck! It is really hard to stick with a trainer, especially when they don't have their own barn but it is sometimes necessary for our competition goals. Good for you for putting your horses health first! I hope you can get him healthy and happy and find a coach with similar goals to yours. Good luck!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> Any farrier worth their salt would know this and trim accordingly. Also, a barn full of lame barefoot horses that were all previously sound should be setting off alarm bells. Feed and farrier would be what I would blame, not wet ground.
> My farrier always asks before he does the horses what their "schedule" for riding and showing is and any other fun tidbits about the horse. If he is doing a horse under a week before an event he is very careful and with new horses is also careful until he finds their optimum"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So it's the farriers fault if the horses are standing in muck? Interesting theory.

Soft outside and hard indoors = sore feet. Farrier or feed doesn't play into it. We have one mare with soft feet. If it's wet for days - she gets tender.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> Any farrier worth their salt would know this and trim accordingly. Also, a barn full of lame barefoot horses that were all previously sound should be setting off alarm bells. Feed and farrier would be what I would blame, not wet ground.


Agreed 100% with Anebel! My mare has always been barefoot without issue as well, and if this happened to her I would know something was off...if it happened to her AND others who'd been previously fine and who had been trimmed by the same farrier, I would DEFINITELY take issue with the farrier!

And as for the trainer making a shoeing decision for you, that is just plain ridiculous on so many different levels!!! :evil: First of all, the difference in the cost of shod vs barefoot is a BIG one...I don't know about your area, but here in Ohio my bill for a trim is like $35. Shoes are hundreds. And second of all (and most importantly to me!), once you put holes in your horse's feet that's going to open him up for other issues, like abscesses just to name one. Now for a horse that needs shoes that's a sound risk to take to make sure your horse doesn't wear down his hooves too quickly, or just basically have them fall apart. But for your horse sounds like that was just a poor choice and your inexperienced trainer basically sticking a bandaid on the issue because that's all she knows how to do.

Either way, glad you're leaving...and the sooner the better, that trainer obviously isn't very well educated and it's sad that those people are out there, advertising themselves as experts. :-|


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

mls said:


> So it's the farriers fault if the horses are standing in muck? Interesting theory.
> 
> Soft outside and hard indoors = sore feet. Farrier or feed doesn't play into it. We have one mare with soft feet. If it's wet for days - she gets tender.


My barefoot mare has been up to her knees in mud for about a year now, it's been wet since last spring here in Ohio with no chance for anything to dry up and all the pastures here are mud lots. I ride her every other day indoors, in a sand arena and the aisles in our barn are concrete. No issues whatsoever, and she's been at that barn for several years. 

Not saying it can't be the case for other horses, just saying that given the OP's situation, that's not really the likely answer.


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## Klassic Superstar (Nov 30, 2009)

Thanks guys, clear one RBI hip, he didn't getshoes put, was going to but thankfully didn't cause she couldn't get him out but did inform not ask thatsne was putting shoes on him. Tha ks again!


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

How much notice do you need to give before you move?


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## NeuroticMare (Jan 8, 2012)

You are doing right by Ollie. Just because you are with a certain trainer or certain barn at one time, does not mean they are for you forever, especially now that you have a special needs horse. It is business like any other. I drove a Chevy Lumina for years and yes, it suited me fine, but now I want to pull a horse trailer and have 4 wheel drive since I work nights and often drive when the roads are crappy in the winter, before the plows come out. I did not feel bad about selling my Lumina to get a truck. I loved my little silver beater, but it could not do what I wanted, through no fault of its own, so I had to move on.

Think of it like that. Your new place sounds fabulous and you and your horse deserve the best.

My other word of advice, is to seek your own vet and farriers based on what you like and are looking for, get recommendations if need be, by trusted sources! When I was a kid my trainer took care of the vet, farrier, etc. Believe it or not, there are terrible farriers out there. You can usually tell a good farrier because they have a waiting list or are not accepting new clients... BUT, the nice thing about moving to a nice barn (like the one you describe) is they often already use these great farriers and many will squeeze in one more horse if he is at a barn he already goes to.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.


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## Daisy25 (May 29, 2011)

Klassic Superstar said:


> I know she means well and is just very young...


There is a reason behind the saying "The road to H*ll is paved with good intentions"...

It makes absolutely NO difference if somebody "means well" if they are not doing the right thing. The end. Period.

Something happened that caused all the horses to get sore feet. Even if you are able to give the trainer the benefit of the doubt and assume that it was just a massive coincidence and not the fault of a poor farrier or wet footing - it is STILL wrong to then overwork those horses and try to go for a fast fix by just "slapping some shoes on".

Sounds like you are making the right choice by switching barns...

Best of luck!


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

You have plenty of valid reasons to move. I'd be gone just for the fact she worked my sore horse. Who does that?


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

equiniphile said:


> How much notice do you need to give before you move?


Are you serious? As has been said-take the horse ASAP, and let her try and take you to court for lack of notice. 

I am very glad the shoes did not get put on....that would have created more issues. I am curious tho-as to what makes you think that the horse has immune issues? Just because of the pneumonia? I am guessing, just guessing here, that a person who would continue to work a sore horse most likely would not cool one off adequately, and perhaps THAT is where the pneumonia came from? I am also the she-devil when it comes to my animals or family-this girl would have been ripped a new one by now.......you are WAY to nice.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

franknbeans said:


> Are you serious? As has been said-take the horse ASAP, and let her try and take you to court for lack of notice.
> 
> I am very glad the shoes did not get put on....that would have created more issues. I am curious tho-as to what makes you think that the horse has immune issues? Just because of the pneumonia? I am guessing, just guessing here, that a person who would continue to work a sore horse most likely would not cool one off adequately, and perhaps THAT is where the pneumonia came from? I am also the she-devil when it comes to my animals or family-this girl would have been ripped a new one by now.......you are WAY to nice.


 I wasn't sure; it's something I wanted to at least ask about.


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## Klassic Superstar (Nov 30, 2009)

Update on my poor baby boy first of all he's getting moved on Sunday fest thing in the morning as I came out today and he suddenly dropped south weight you can see his ribs when he moves and feel and count every single one and the flanks are sunken in making his kips poke out and he doesn't want to canter cause he sore (tested him
On the lung line today) I was in shock and in tears when I pulled the blanket off and saw his condition! 

He so depressed and just ing to me all day while I was there. I'll be out first thing and all day tomorrow to make sure he is okay. 

So frustrate but now have a plan and this barn is great an the BO is in the know of his condition and will be there to help me bring him back to health and will have the vet out to see what all I can do. 

Should be interesting to see my trainer omitted again an see what all she has to say cause I could loose it with her but will do all my eat to sty calm and perfessional as it won't do anyone or Ollie any good if we start a ugly argument and she isn't worth the time to yell at. 

I just can't beilive how much wright he has lost how I'll and depressed he looks and can't wait to load him up in the trailer! 

Is it Sunday yet?


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## karebear444 (Feb 3, 2012)

You aren't failing your horse! You are doing the right thing getting him out of there. I was in a bad spot having to move my horse a few times in a short period and it affected her too. Horses get stressed from their home environment always changing. They need stability just as much as we do, but you made steps to make it better so just follow through, drop your trainer and start fresh when your horse is better. Good luck


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## BoldComic (Feb 26, 2012)

mls said:


> So it's the farriers fault if the horses are standing in muck? Interesting theory.
> 
> Soft outside and hard indoors = sore feet. Farrier or feed doesn't play into it. We have one mare with soft feet. If it's wet for days - she gets tender.



It may not be the farriers fault. But I don't think that's the point. I think the point is the trainer asked for shoes to be put on the horse without permission. I agree that moving barns and switching trainers is a good move.Any trainer that would make a decision like that without discussing it with you doesn't respect you and should be fired. I'm sorry to hear your boy is underweight on top of everything else. But if this new barn is as good as you say then he should be feeling better pretty quick.


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## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

So how did the move go?? How is Ollie???


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## Klassic Superstar (Nov 30, 2009)

*3/5/12 update on the situation*

Update, Saturday morning we had a huge talk with my trainer, tears frustration and laughing all the emotional works. 

I hope I am not about to be geting negitive attention for this but I wanmt to be honest and tell you what happend.

So we hada huge "coming to Jesus" meeting sturday wmonring, layed eveything out the good, the bad, her faults, the boundries she has crossed ect ect. Told her my neds, my expectations, my concerns about my horse and what I felt needed to happen.

WE both came away from the meeting feeling better. I have made mistakes in the horse world and have learn getting up and leaving before confronting the issues with the BO/Trainer isnt fully fair on my part and when it comes down to it I felt "would moving him in this state, depressed, low weight, sore feet, anxity ect" be best for him and his helath. I wouldnt want to make his condtions worse and have to do more work and get him to settle into a whole new place after moving to this barn a month ago. I feel its best fr ollie to saty put now that we havea plan.

When talking to my trainer she was honest, she agreed she needed to step up and be there for both Ollie and I, she is also concerned about him and we made up a plan to start yet again figuring out whats going on with him. I felt for a young ttrainer to be honest and agree that she had/has some faults and apoligize and be proffesional about it (a bit late but better then never) was alot. I have metseen way to many young trainers not want their feelings hurt or told they are wrong and all of that so she really showed me she was committed to me, it wasnt a money issue or anything like that but she and I made a plan and she knows if by the end of this month if I still am feeling the way I am (i shouldnt though with our new plan) that I will be leaving her.

I feel I needed to be the bigger person and be upfront and perffesionall with her cause Thats what I would want if I was in her shoes (even if i had done a few things wrong)

With our talk I came to understand a few things beter come to find out I wasnt getting the full story from her (now have it)

So I have this weekend off, Make up lessons schedualed, plan for treating/figuring out whats up with the Ollie boy and to keep meeting up and talk about how we are feeling and what we ant to do.

I know some of you porbably wont agree that this was a good choice and that I am young and maybe not putting the best intrest of Ollie first, but I am and I feel alot better after maning up and talking to her, not just leaving without talking about why and my issues and my concerns about Ollie.

For the soreness, He is doing alot better. I wont be putting shoes on him unless he remains sore but seems to be coming out of it with rest and light work. As for the weight issue he is now getting more hay with dinner and a flake of hay with his lunch, hopefully he will put those ribs away. Its not that they are poking out like a starved horse but you can see them when he moves and when you run you hand over his side you can for sure feel them. He got wormed this morning to make sure he didnt get any other persites in him when we moved, he is getting ulcer gaurd this week as well to rule out ulcers and I am making a dental apt for him for te end of this month or next. So with all that done and if he still is having issues iwth his weight I will be cunsulting my vet and maybe to doing blood work to see if that shows anything.

He looked much brighter on Saturday, his eyes were better, he was more eager and just looked in better spirits, so i felt relived about that. His soreness has gone away for the most part just one th gravel is he still ouchy but we have great new footing in our arena so lightly worked him saturday and fe looked/felt much better then last weekn and moved better the friday morning when I lunged him. 

So that is where we are right now. I hope I odnt get replies saying I did the wrong thing as I feel I did the right, proffesional thing by my horse. 

I have attached a picture of him from friday and yes it looks pretty sad, he isnt happy in the picture was really just ina blah state of mind. Saturday like I said he looked alot better just didnt get a picture.

Thanks for reading


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Personally I think you would have been better off with no picture if you could;t get one from saturday. This one certainly is not helping ME think that you did what is best, but, that is your prerogative. I can only hope that you still have the opportunity to go to the other barn should you need to, and that you will be totally honest with yourself-and make sure he is getting all he needs. That picture makes me really sad, and I will tell you that if one of mine were in this situation, they would have been on their way, and THEN I may have had the discussion, since I do agree it is fair to let her know what the issues are. If mine looked like this I would already know that she was not the one I wanted caring for my horse. She could try with someone else's., but that is just me.


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## Klassic Superstar (Nov 30, 2009)

I appreciate your opinion 

Ill be fallowing up with updated pictures. Of course this isnt a flatering picture of him,he isnt doing as good as he was when we first moved but if I were to move everytime somthing happend with him(seems to be the care as he isa high maintance horse) Id be a bad owner. So for now till he gets a bit healthier he will stay where he is and then if see fit to move him he will be ina better condition to better handle the stress of moving and may not take it as hard. But wth the descion I have made I now need to either know I ma moving him or not at the ned of the month. If I go with saying iI am in for the long run as long as he keeps improvng health wise I thinkI will have a better outcome then if i were to say I was still moving I may not have the right mind set when I go out there and that wouldnt help my sitiation at all or Oliver. SO now with our plan, being open and honest and lots more communication going on I need to stick with a plan and not be wishy washy for his sake.


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

I did that once. Horse was not happy, stressing out, dropping weight, but I tried to work with the barn owner on sorting it out, as I really liked her as a person. Like your trainer, she had the habit of making decisions about my horse for me, which did my head in, to say the least. When I would chat to her about why I was unhappy, she always allayed my fears and I thought, right, this is actually okay, we'll keep working with this and the horse will improve when spring grass comes through. By the time I was getting really antsy about the whole situation, I had the vet look at the horse's teeth and conclude she needed a fair bit of work done. I was leaning towards moving her at this point, but thought I would wait for her to put weight back on after her teeth were sorted, before doing so. She put a bit of weight back on, then stressed it off again and in the meantime, I continued having "boundaries issues" with the BO. 

I moved the horse to a new barn. Turns out the move was much less stressful than keeping her where she was and I'd wished I had done it months before. Whoops. 

Also, if a trainer kept working my horse when it was unwell or when I had told him/her not to, that person would have stopped being my trainer yesterday.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

When someone you pay for disrespects you and abuses the creature God entrusted you with, you look at them right in the eye and you tell them YOU'RE FIRED.

Why does everything have to be non-confrontational, non-judgmental?

There IS a time for confrontation. There IS a time for judgment. There is a time to not give a **** about excuses why someone isn't doing their job.

I fear you have made a mistake, but I hope I am wrong.


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

Reread your post and another thing jumped out at me: you said that the horse would be getting "more hay with dinner" and "a flake of hay with lunch." Quite frankly, I would try to avoid keeping my horse at a place where she didn't have ad lib hay and/or grazing more or less at all times. Especially if I had a horse who is prone to be stressy and lose weight. Free access to hay or grazing is one of the best and simplest ways to keep them healthy and keep weight on, as that's what their GI system is best designed to cope with. 

I hope you've made the right decision but if it were my horse, I'd move. My rule of thumb these days is that when I feel like I need to be my horse's advocate all the bloody time, it's time to bail. The BO/trainer should be on my side when it comes to my horse's care and realise that as the owner, I'm the primary decision-maker for her. If I feel as though I have to confront them about this or that thing, or that they are crossing boundaries on a pretty regular basis, that's a big red flag. Doesn't matter how good their intentions are if it's driving me nuts and my horse isn't happy. 

When I left the barn I described in my previous post, I was concerned the horse would lose even more weight due to the stress of the move (and she had none to lose at that point), but in fact, she was far less stressed the moment she stepped off the trailer at the new barn.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Well I want to commend you for how "adult" you handled the situation with the trainer. However, I'm with the others that I probably would have moved and then had a little chat with her after the fact, just so that you weren't burning bridges and she'd perhaps learn from the situation. Just keep a close eye on your boy, in my experience things tend to change right after you bring something like this up, and then go back to "business as usual" about a month or so down the road :-/


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## Klassic Superstar (Nov 30, 2009)

Thank you, I do feel good about my descision, had a phone call and text every day and she sent me two pictures of both sides this morning. Were we are we can't let the hors out to graze but he's getting hand grazed every day for an hour with the other mare who is having a hard time gaining weight. It's just way to wet and pretty snowy last couple of weeks.

Like I said I got the bigger picture of her Desiscions and they made more sense of why she was doing them, not excusing her at all but she is young, finding her way, she means well and everyone has to fall once and awhile, not at the expense of my horse but it wasn't a life or death situation (not that'd id ever let it get that far) horse will be horses get hurt, stress out, gain and loose weight, get sore everyone and while. He is doing so much better in just the three days since we had our big talk. 

I will keep you updated and with more pictures this weekend.
Thanks for your advice, support and just listening as it was such a rough emotional time last week/end and I am feeling so much better.


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## karebear444 (Feb 3, 2012)

thesilverspear said:


> Reread your post and another thing jumped out at me: you said that the horse would be getting "more hay with dinner" and "a flake of hay with lunch." Quite frankly, I would try to avoid keeping my horse at a place where she didn't have ad lib hay and/or grazing more or less at all times. Especially if I had a horse who is prone to be stressy and lose weight. Free access to hay or grazing is one of the best and simplest ways to keep them healthy and keep weight on, as that's what their GI system is best designed to cope with.
> 
> I hope you've made the right decision but if it were my horse, I'd move. My rule of thumb these days is that when I feel like I need to be my horse's advocate all the bloody time, it's time to bail. The BO/trainer should be on my side when it comes to my horse's care and realise that as the owner, I'm the primary decision-maker for her. If I feel as though I have to confront them about this or that thing, or that they are crossing boundaries on a pretty regular basis, that's a big red flag. Doesn't matter how good their intentions are if it's driving me nuts and my horse isn't happy.
> 
> When I left the barn I described in my previous post, I was concerned the horse would lose even more weight due to the stress of the move (and she had none to lose at that point), but in fact, she was far less stressed the moment she stepped off the trailer at the new barn.


I agree and I don't understand why so many boarding stables do that. My current stable is unfortunately this way. They give a couple flakes for the am and pm feeding. That irritates me to no end because I also believe free choice hay is the best. They have show horses and are worried about them getting overweight so I'm stuck spending a lot of money buying expensive supplements to add to my grain just because of the lack of hay. I added a flake of hay to my horse's stall once, they had a cow and told me if I wanted more hay I should buy it myself. When I brought her there we agreed my mare was to get as least 3 flakes of hay per meal and they only give her two. Of course this was verbal I should have had it put in the contract. There is no such thing as a perfect boarding place, if I had the land I would have my mare at home.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

karebear444 said:


> I agree and I don't understand why so many boarding stables do that. My current stable is unfortunately this way. They give a couple flakes for the am and pm feeding. That irritates me to no end because I also believe free choice hay is the best. They have show horses and are worried about them getting overweight so I'm stuck spending a lot of money buying expensive supplements to add to my grain just because of the lack of hay. I added a flake of hay to my horse's stall once, they had a cow and told me if I wanted more hay I should buy it myself. When I brought her there we agreed my mare was to get as least 3 flakes of hay per meal and they only give her two. Of course this was verbal I should have had it put in the contract. There is no such thing as a perfect boarding place, if I had the land I would have my mare at home.


A LOT of barns do this actually, mine's one as well. A few of us just end up buying our own hay to add to what they feed so that our horses who are getting worked more than a lot of the others in the barn get enough. :-| Oh well, such is life, and boarding!


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## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

My old barn was that way. I think they got 5 flakes per day, luckily Hunter is an easy keeper. Now that he lives at my trainers I have to tease her about feeding him too much lol. She has told me numerous times I can give him as much hay as I want to.


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## karebear444 (Feb 3, 2012)

Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> A LOT of barns do this actually, mine's one as well. A few of us just end up buying our own hay to add to what they feed so that our horses who are getting worked more than a lot of the others in the barn get enough. :-| Oh well, such is life, and boarding!


I would buy my own if I knew that they wouldn't just feed all mine and none of their hay. I have already had this happen to me in the past. Also spring through fall my horse is in a group and I don't want to have to pay to feed someone else's horses so it's kind of a no win situation. I'm looking for places in my area that feed free choice hay, haven't found any yet.


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