# Spook Gotta Gun - What do you think?



## StylishK (Dec 12, 2008)

I'm curious to what you guys think about this reining stud?

Thanks!


















Spooks Gotta Gun : AQHA-APHA Bay Overo Stallion

Here's the link to his photos
Hicks Quarter Horses Photo Gallery

And a video




 
There are a few more videos on youtube if you want to look.

We're considering him to my mare
Here's a few pictures and her pedigree 

Footworks Wonder Quarter Horse


















On a little bit of a side note after you tell me what you think of him, what color to you think I'll get and you can guess on markings too ahah


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Love his bottom side. You are not going to find a better bottom side. Very strong which is one thing I really look for.


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## StylishK (Dec 12, 2008)

Thanks! I wish I could find the Reining by the Bay video of him he looked MUCH better, but someone took it off youtube ahha  

I'm excited for this baby, she's all under lights so hopefully we'll be breeding mid march!

I agree too about the bottom side I LOVE that his dam is extremely strong.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

I really like him. 

My old trainer has a coming 4yr old mare out of him and she's a pretty fantastic mare. She's got a great work ethic.


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## StylishK (Dec 12, 2008)

Thats what I like to hear!!! =P. If its quiet enough I might ask to be the first one on it and stuff ... however thats not something I'm into so it may be my trainer ahha.

I have a feeling my trainer and I are going to be fighting over this one =P


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

I don't know much about QHs, but I can give you a guess as to color and markings.

The foal will either be bay, chestnut, or black. It's a 50/50 shot as to whether he'll be overo or solid. But that could be a little different, depending on whether he's Ee or EE, whether he's Aa or AA, whether he's heterozygous or homozygous for splash, and whether your mare is aa, Aa, or AA.

As for markings... Markings are determined in part by environmental factors, so you really have no way of knowing.



Here are a few of his babies...





































7 of his foals are registered as Paints and 23 of them are registered as Quarter Horses.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

StylishK said:


> I have a feeling my trainer and I are going to be fighting over this one =P


You NEVER fight a good trainer over a Open caliber prospect. There will be time for you to ride the horse once it is done wining in the open. I know from personal experience.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

I agree, I'm staying away from my mare until my trainer is done with her. 

She's got much more know how and showmanship then I have and she knows the horse much better than I do at this point.


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## paint gurl 23 (Jan 26, 2009)

Wow is he nice! Love his tail  haha...very nicely bred as well!


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## tazassape (Oct 8, 2008)

Doesn't deafness run in those bloodlines?


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

He is pretty to look at but seriously built down hill. Is down hill something you want in a reining horse?


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

tazassape said:


> Doesn't deafness run in those bloodlines?



It is more related to the color pattern then the pedigree.


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## StylishK (Dec 12, 2008)

Alwaysbehind said:


> He is pretty to look at but seriously built down hill. Is down hill something you want in a reining horse?


 
Its not something you really want, but if he suits her its something i'll sacrifice.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

nrhareiner said:


> It is more related to the color pattern then the pedigree.


I'm very curious about this... do you have any literature I could read up on?


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

JustDressageIt said:


> I'm very curious about this... do you have any literature I could read up on?


Here you go...

Equine Genetic Deafness - Quarter Horse News - The News Magazine of the Performance Horse Industry

AVMA - Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association - 235(10):1204 - Abstract

The Horse | Deafness in American Paint Horses Examined


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Hm.. I guess my argument is that deafness is an inherited trait from the parents (i.e. it's a gene carried by one/both parents that becomes a dominant trait in the foal that is deaf) and therefore is a pedigree problem, i.e. through genes. 
You could look at it this way:
NOT ALL bald faced horses are deaf, therefore when you get a bald faced horse, you are NOT guaranteed that it's deaf. IF 100% of bald faced (patterned) horses were deaf, then I would agree that it's a pattern problem. 
HOWEVER, since not ALL bald faced horses are deaf, that leads me to believe that it is a genetic problem, NOT a color problem. 
I believe it is the close proximity of the colour gene loci is relation to one of the deafness mutation genes, which would make some people think that it's color-related, but it's not, it's just color ASSOCIATED. *
Does that make sense? 

(Think of it this way.... not all white cats are deaf... but some are. White =/= deaf; the gene = deaf, it just so happens that the color is associated with it.)



*source: Cashew (on this forum) better known as a Zoology major offline


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

I couldn't agree with you more Allie. The color is not the CAUSE of the hearing problems.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

> The color is not the CAUSE of the hearing problems.



Exactly. I guess what I'm saying is that while it might be color associated, it is not caused by the coloration. 
I would be very interested in reading up on it more, to see if certain genes crop up. Just like I said, not all white cats are deaf, but some are (Rich and my little kitty included). Saying that something is dependent on color is untrue, rather it's just an association with certain gene loci for color being associated with another gene loci for deafness. 
This have piqued my interest, that's for sure.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

I believe it is not just bald faces but a certain pattern of bald face that you see deafness in. If it was a simple as a simple gene then you would see more solid colored Gunners deaf and you do not. The ones that are all have the same face markings as he dose. Normally very close if not hitting the ear. While it is most likely not just the color but more where it is located on the face it makes it more complicated then a simple gene.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

nrhareiner said:


> Love his bottom side. You are not going to find a better bottom side. Very strong which is one thing I really look for.


Bloodlines from his sire are nothing to sneeze at.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

nrhareiner said:


> I believe it is not just bald faces but a certain pattern of bald face that you see deafness in. If it was a simple as a simple gene then you would see more solid colored Gunners deaf and you do not. The ones that are all have the same face markings as he dose. Normally very close if not hitting the ear. While it is most likely not just the color but more where it is located on the face it makes it more complicated then a simple gene.


I'd be very curious to read up on it. I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts it's not a 'simple gene' but it is of course linked to genes, and perhaps the if a certain color gene loci "bumps up to" the deafness gene loci, you get a deaf bald faced horse. But again not all bald faced, blue-eyed horses are deaf, correct? So saying it's 100% color related is false, it just happens to be that when one event happens, it triggers a second event to happen as well. 
This has piqued my curiosity to see if certain sire/dam lines carry the "bald face/deaf" gene markers, or if it is a mutation through embryonic development.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

mls said:


> Bloodlines from his sire are nothing to sneeze at.



While this is true. I am a much bigger believer in the bottom side of a pedigree.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

nrhareiner said:


> While this is true. I am a much bigger believer in the bottom side of a pedigree.


Why is that?


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

Well it's proven that a foal takes on more of the dams traits (Not just from her personality) but build, conformation, ability etc. That is why you want to look at the bottom side of a pedigree. 

So lets see if I can put into words what I thinking about the hearing issues....

A horse that has hearing problems has a defected genes, the same gene that aids in the proper fuction of the ear can also, but not always, cause the horse to have white facial markings. Therefor it's the gene(s) that are causing the hearing issues, not the color. It just so happens that the facial markings and the function of the ear and linked to some of the same gene's. 

Now, I'm saying that all horses that have hearing issues are going to have bald faces and vise versa, catch my drift?


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

FehrGroundRanch said:


> Well it's proven that a foal takes on more of the dams traits (Not just from her personality) but build, conformation, ability etc. That is why you want to look at the bottom side of a pedigree.
> 
> So lets see if I can put into words what I thinking about the hearing issues....
> 
> ...


Bingo.

Color =/= deaf
gene = deaf

It just so happens that perhaps a certain gene's location for color might be in association with the gene that affects hearing. 
Just like my deaf white cat. Her mom was white, but not deaf. Most of her siblings were white, but not deaf. She is white and is most certainly deaf, but it's not the white causing the deafness.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

I agree that in and of itself the white or color gene is not causing the problem in and of itself. What you do see is that you do not see deaf horses from that line who are deaf and do not have white/bald faces and they are normally very high white close to the ears just like Gunner. IF in some way they where not related then you would see get of Gunner who are deaf who do not have bald faces and I have been around quite a few and have yet to see or hear of one. All the deaf ones I have seen or heard of are all bald faces very very similar to his. Also both his sire and dam are hearing neither have a lot of white.

I do not think at least with the Gunner line you have one with out the other. Or at least you do not see solid face deaf horses with in this line.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

mls said:


> Why is that?


I think Fehrgroundranch summed it up fairly well. To me the dam adds so much more then the sire. You can literally have thousands of get from the same sire but only a few true 1/2 siblings. If you study pedigrees you will see certain traits and even performers out of the dam where the sire is not quite as good with out that dam line. 

Nu Chex To Cash is a good example of this. If you look at the vast majority of his outstanding get are out of a certain line. While there are some exceptions to this rule the rule wins the vast majority of the time. He needs a very strong dam line to get a good foal. 

Even look at great sires like Doc Bar. While he has a lot of good get his best are out of Poco Bueno daughter/g-daughters. Hollywood Jac 86 best cross is Great Pine. The dams line influances what you get a lot of the time. I also look very hard at tail line. Also where certain horses fall with in the pedigree. There are certain horses I do not like top side and others I do not like bottom side. As some sires are much better broodmare sires then sire of sires.


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

The deafness is related to pattern, splash white (not bald faces). It has to do w/ the lack pigment cells inside the ear, you can't tell by looking if they are pigmented or not, and yes ALL horses that are lacking that pigment are deaf. 

I have a deaf great dane, and it is related to her pattern. Not all white great danes are deaf, some merlequin great danes are deaf, if they have pigment inside their ear they can hear, if not they are deaf (less white on their head gives a better chance they can hear, but is not a guarantee). (in danes (and dogs that come in merle) it goes along w/ the merle gene). You could call it genetic in the since that both her parents carried one merle gene, but it's only an issue when both parents pass them. I could breed my dog and as long as I breed her to a black or mantle, or some other non merle dog there wouldn't be any issues w/ her passing on her deafness. 

Sorry, hard to explain, I hope that makes since!


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

Here is a site about splashed whites, it doesn't really explain 'why', but it does talk alot about deafness in splashed whites.
Overo Lethal White Syndrome (OLWS)
Here's one w/ some more info,
Deafness in American Paint Horses Examined :: Q-Horse! :: Care2 Groups


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

^ That's what I thought, the lack of pigment in the eardrum.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

That is what I was trying to think if to explan it but too many thing going through my brain right now. The deaf ones you see have white that normally touches the bottom of the ear or very close to it.

Either way it dose not seem to bother them. They train well and show even better. I would not turn one away b/c if it nor would I not breed one b/c of it.


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## Beth Rodr (Nov 24, 2013)

In horses it is usually a combination of bald face and blue eyes. It is a lack of pigment inside of the ears...it wouldn't be a deciding factor for me. The spooks gotta gun foals are really sweet and very intelligent and willing. Late to mature physically and emotionally though.


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## kenda (Oct 10, 2008)

There is a deaf Spooks Gotta Gun colt with a bald face at the barn that I keep my mare at. He's a really quiet nice looking colt. According to his previous trainer, he is very responsive to even the most minor seat aid. He's a bay frame overo.


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## ForeverSunRider (Jun 27, 2013)

He's got a bald face. That look bothers me more than what I'd guess is logical lol. He looks nice otherwise though.


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