# enter private property without notice to get horses back



## hellomynameis (Mar 12, 2013)

Hey everyone, I have a question and would love to know what everyone has to say that can help this situation.. Thank you in advance 

Last year we were had to move/sell some of our horses due to the county spreading Johnson grass on the road which spread across our pastures. Any ways, the final two horses we wanted to stay close to us, so we asked a friend if he wanted them. The terms where.. with my horse I wasn't charging because I wanted the retain the right to take him back in the future.. He agreed. With my husbands horse our friend agreed to pay monthly payments until the full amount was paid. 
Now.. one year later, the guy has never paid anything for my husband's horse. We finally got to see them this past weekend and they are seriously in mud that went above there knees, in a pasture that is too small for the 6 horses he had in there. They had been in mud so long that there where dried balls hanging from there fur, over an inch in diameter. Two other pastures where lush in grass without one horse on them. The horses also had a round bale that looked like it was rotten and moldy with the fine net wrapping still on it! 
My question is.. Can we take them back due to him not paying for my husbands horse, the condition of the horses/where they stay, and the terms he agreed to prior to taking the horses? 
I am a resident of NC and the horses are located in SC.


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## Kayella (Feb 11, 2012)

Do you have a written contract stating your terms?


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

hellomynameis said:


> The terms where.. with my horse I wasn't charging because I wanted the retain the right to take him back in the future.. He agreed. With my husbands horse our friend agreed to pay monthly payments until the full amount was paid.
> ................. Can we take them back due to him not paying for my husbands horse, the condition of the horses/where they stay, and the terms he agreed to prior to taking the horses?


What proof do you have that the horses are/were ever yours? What do you have in writing for the terms of your agreements with the person who now has possession of the horses?


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

not that is would help but maybe in court. did you have a written contract with it noterized?


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## hellomynameis (Mar 12, 2013)

Kayella said:


> Do you have a written contract stating your terms?


We have text messages and emails were exchanged.


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

that may help but you have to get on the property to get them back. have you asked the person for the return of them yet?
ask in writing


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## hellomynameis (Mar 12, 2013)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> What proof do you have that the horses are/were ever yours? What do you have in writing for the terms of your agreements with the person who now has possession of the horses?


I have copies of the checks I used to pay for my horse. Along with all his paperwork. My husband has all his horses paperwork along with all his receipts all of his training.


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## hellomynameis (Mar 12, 2013)

Critter sitter said:


> that may help but you have to get on the property to get them back. have you asked the person for the return of them yet?
> ask in writing


No, we have not said anything to him yet. He may let us take them. We are trying to gain as much information on our rights before moving forward. Right now, neither my husband or I are thinking clearly with the condition of the property and horses.


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

hellomynameis said:


> No, we have not said anything to him yet. He may let us take them. We are trying to gain as much information on our rights before moving forward. Right now, neither my husband or I are thinking clearly with the condition of the property and horses.


I would document everything Pictures any calls texts or emails made.


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## hellomynameis (Mar 12, 2013)

Thank you. I will start putting everything together. The transition may move smoothly. However, if he doesn't want to give them up, I want to have in mind exactly what to do next.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

If you have paperwork that clearly shows you and your husband own these horses, call the sheriff or police with jurisdiction over that area and have them do a "Keep the Peace" or "Civil Stand By" while you go ask for your horses. They cannot get involved as this is a civil matter, but they will make sure that no one gets out of line. If he gives you the horses fine, if not then you'll need to file in court to get them back. The local law enforcement will not force him to give you the horses back, or they shouldn't, but they will keep you safe while you try.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

I would expect, that you owe some board. 
I would certainly offer, money for board, after all they did keep your horses for you, for a year.
You might not like the environment or the way they kept them, but at least they kept them, like they said they would, and didn't sell them.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

hellomynameis said:


> I am a resident of NC and the horses are located in SC.


Please be sure to have everything in order before you haul them across state lines. I believe felony theft starts at $500 in most states. Cross a state line and that adds a whole new level of trouble.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Yup, purely a civil matter.

I suspect they will come back at you with the fact that you owe a lot of board. Make sure any references to the financial part of the deal are in your hand when you go talk with them. That way, when you say you are going to court, they will see that you have leverage against this claim.

If you don't have anything that discusses the deal in print/recorded, you may be up the creek to protect from this claim. THAT'S why, no matter how good a friend a person is.....get it written as a contract EVERY TIME!


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## hellomynameis (Mar 12, 2013)

Taffy Clayton said:


> I would expect, that you owe some board.
> I would certainly offer, money for board, after all they did keep your horses for you, for a year.
> You might not like the environment or the way they kept them, but at least they kept them, like they said they would, and didn't sell them.


I will pay him for keeping the horses, no problem. That is very fair.


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## hellomynameis (Mar 12, 2013)

mls said:


> Please be sure to have everything in order before you haul them across state lines. I believe felony theft starts at $500 in most states. Cross a state line and that adds a whole new level of trouble.


Yikes! I will make sure to have everything in order. Thank you for telling me this


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## hellomynameis (Mar 12, 2013)

Allison Finch said:


> Yup, purely a civil matter.
> 
> I suspect they will come back at you with the fact that you owe a lot of board. Make sure any references to the financial part of the deal are in your hand when you go talk with them. That way, when you say you are going to court, they will see that you have leverage against this claim.
> 
> If you don't have anything that discusses the deal in print/recorded, you may be up the creek to protect from this claim. THAT'S why, no matter how good a friend a person is.....get it written as a contract EVERY TIME!


I completely agree that paying him board is a must. However, out of curiosity, what about my husbands horse that he never paid for? Would the same board be expected? I would say half out of kindness but is it really necessary? Thinking about when car's are reposed. That would be like loan holders cutting checks to people for changing oil and putting on a new set of tires. 

Would giving half for the horse he said he's pay for be efficient? or should I plan on giving full board?


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

hellomynameis said:


> I completely agree that paying him board is a must. However, out of curiosity, what about my husbands horse that he never paid for? Would the same board be expected? I would say half out of kindness but is it really necessary? Thinking about when car's are reposed. That would be like loan holders cutting checks to people for changing oil and putting on a new set of tires.
> 
> Would giving half for the horse he said he's pay for be efficient? or should I plan on giving full board?


How long has he had the horses?


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

hellomynameis said:


> I completely agree that paying him board is a must. However, out of curiosity, what about my husbands horse that he never paid for? Would the same board be expected? I would say half out of kindness but is it really necessary? Thinking about when car's are reposed. That would be like loan holders cutting checks to people for changing oil and putting on a new set of tires.
> 
> Would giving half for the horse he said he's pay for be efficient? or should I plan on giving full board?



The problem is the lack of a written contract. It may boil down to your word against his. He might claim no such arrangement was ever made.


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## hellomynameis (Mar 12, 2013)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> How long has he had the horses?


Less than one year. After looking at the messages, he has had them since the end of April last year.


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## hellomynameis (Mar 12, 2013)

I had owned my horse for over 6 years and my husband had his horse for 5 years.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

hellomynameis said:


> Less than one year. After looking at the messages, he has had them since the end of April last year.


OK. If it was me, I would go up and just ask for the horses to be returned. If he says yes, you aren't out anything but the trip to go get them. If he says no, I'd offer a comfortable amount of board IF he'll return them and sign a bill/receipt that says he accepts XXX as payment in full for the boarded horses and waives any future claim to said horses. The he acknowledges that the verbal contract for his purchase of the horses is null and void due to non-payment and from this day forth you and your husband will retain full ownership of your horses, with no hindrance or claim from him. Something like that, I'd probably pay for a lawyer to write up the agreement, might even take him to town and have it notarized when/if he signs it. 

Maybe make it 2 statements, so that if he doesn't demand board, you don't give him any ideas and you can still have him sign that he has no claim. Just because I never trust anyone to do what they say.


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## Cacowgirl (Feb 19, 2011)

So, you waited almost a year before checking on them & caring about the non-receipt of payments for the one you were selling? Did you ever in that year have emails or a request for payment-on either the horse you were selling or board for the one you weren't? And what about vet & farrier bills? I hope they haven't let the feet grow all this time with no care. Have they been wormed? Standing knee deep in mud is not healthy-I hope all the horses get a better living situation.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

no contract ? those horses are his. You have no more right to them than you do the horses in my pasture. Call him, be friendly ask if you can have them back, as in ASK, ask nicely. If he balks ask bare bones what he would sell them back to you for so he could get some of his expenses back. Sure in reality he probably doesnt deserve anythign but if a couple hundred bucks can get em back. He might say sure. If you start demanding or using words like MY Horse, and MY Husbands horse, or show up with the police, Id tell you and the police to get bent and carry your happy hindquarters off my property. I dont know about SC law but in some states it is perfectly legal to shoot someone coming on to your property and taking a horse.

Just goes to show you went and entered into a very complicated contract complete with financing terms and it didnt occur to you to write any of this down ?


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## Cacowgirl (Feb 19, 2011)

You stated the horses have a lot of mud in their pasture, & the feed isn't to your standards-but -are the horses skinny? Are his four other horses in better shape, or the same? Have you emailed or talked to him since seeing your horses? Were you there when he wasn't? Do you have ownership papers/bills of sale for them? Wishing you good luck to a speedy solution. Please-always get it In Writing!


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

I would say, "thank you so much for taking care of my horses for me. We are settled now, and would like to bring them to our house. How much do I owe you for keeping them? Is $2200 okay? That is $100 per horse per month."


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## hellomynameis (Mar 12, 2013)

I just talked to him. He said he knows they are in bad living conditions but has come across hard times and is doing all he can for them. I've never heard him like this before. Instead of taking the horses from him, all his horses are coming here and my husband and I are fixing his property. Before they come we are signing a contract stating why his horses are here and he has agreed to sign two contracts for our two horses stating the terms set last year. these will include terms of non payment of the horses and me being able to get mine back at any time with a board payment.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

hellomynameis said:


> I just talked to him. He said he knows they are in bad living conditions but has come across hard times and is doing all he can for them. I've never heard him like this before. Instead of taking the horses from him, all his horses are coming here and my husband and I are fixing his property. Before they come we are signing a contract stating why his horses are here and he has agreed to sign two contracts for our two horses stating the terms set last year. these will include terms of non payment of the horses and me being able to get mine back at any time with a board payment.


Don't you just love it when things turn out good and that most people are honest and trustworthy!


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## hellomynameis (Mar 12, 2013)

Cacowgirl said:


> So, you waited almost a year before checking on them & caring about the non-receipt of payments for the one you were selling? Did you ever in that year have emails or a request for payment-on either the horse you were selling or board for the one you weren't? And what about vet & farrier bills? I hope they haven't let the feet grow all this time with no care. Have they been wormed? Standing knee deep in mud is not healthy-I hope all the horses get a better living situation.


Its not like they are down the street from us. They are hours away. We tend to stay very busy with our business, school, kids and life. Our first vacation in over 2 years was this past weekend. We drove from NC to SC so we could see the horses for 15 minutes before he turned around and drove to northern KY for a one night get away.


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

i am so happy you seemed to have worked things Out I look forward to hearing you have them home and Pictures too!!! hehehe


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## hellomynameis (Mar 12, 2013)

This is them.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

I'm confused a bit. Are you still going to let him buy your husbands horse. I would pull that deal off the table.


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## Cacowgirl (Feb 19, 2011)

Pictures didn't post. I'm glad you are getting your horses back. Sounds like you are getting things in writing now. I hope everything turns out ok for all involved.


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## hellomynameis (Mar 12, 2013)

churumbeque said:


> I'm confused a bit. Are you still going to let him buy your husbands horse. I would pull that deal off the table.


He is going to start paying for his horse once he gets on his feet. We honestly don't care if he pays or not, as long as the horses are taken care of.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

Are you taking back your two horses ? or is the friend going to pay you for one horse and just keep the other , but you are taking them both back along with his other horses? 
And after all this, the bad care the terrible pen,you are giving your horse to him, and selling your husbands horse?


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## hellomynameis (Mar 12, 2013)

stevenson said:


> Are you taking back your two horses ? or is the friend going to pay you for one horse and just keep the other , but you are taking them both back along with his other horses?
> And after all this, the bad care the terrible pen,you are giving your horse to him, and selling your husbands horse?


We will be fixing the pasture and the horses will be here in the mean time. We will let him take the horses back but if the pasture ends up in bad condition again, we will take them back. We currently do not have a contract with him, so he technically doesn't have to give us the horses at all. 
We are trying to work it in a way that will legally allow us to take the horses back. He is talking now about the horses staying here because he has to many. This is totally fine with us. Right now our only concern is getting all of the horses out of that environment. 
The only reason I would let the horses go back is for the same reason I let them go to him in the first place. I know he loves them and would do anything he can for them. He is 41 years old and just got 3 stints put in his heart and lost his job. The horses will be in a better place here. If and when they go back, it will not be until there pastures are lush in grass. We will provide everything he needs for all the horses there until he is on his feet. At that point he will pay us back for my husband's horse but nothing else. If he ever gets in this position again he is to inform us so we can help with the horses. In the contract we will be able to take them back without notice if the pastures are not well kept and the horses provided good hay.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

All started because the county spread johnson grass and it got into your pasture? We bale that as hay down here. In times of droght thats all the cattle and some horses get. Our whole 200 arce hay meadow was mostly johnson grass untill we spent a ton of money and planted coastal on half.
Never had a problem with johnson grass and during a drought it might make up most of our hay crop. We have been selling Johnson grass bermuda mix for 90 a round bale Last year it was 145. all the older mares and geldings eat johson grass hay and keep weight on with very little grain.
Can some one enlighten me about the problem with Johnson grass hay. My pastures are a mix of johnson grass bermuda and prairie grasss. Our livestock do well on it. Shalom


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Drought may cause livestock to graze toxic plants

Wilted johnson grass produces cyanide. I am surprised that you make hay out of it. I guess text books and reality are not always on the same page.


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