# Buckskin? Smokey brown?



## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

How great is that .. you get a different horse every season .. lol. The horse in the background with the red barn looks the same color..


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## Aiya (Jul 11, 2012)

That horse is his half-brother, he is buckskin I believe. Their colours are pretty close in the winter but he is much much lighter than my boy Simon in the summer. His half-brother's points are actually black, unlike Simon, and he doesn't get the dark neck/shoulder area like Simon. 

It is pretty funny how he changes colour so much! People think he is a different horse all the time lol!


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

I would say a brown based buckskin.

If it were a dorsal stripe, it would not fade season to season. It would be very defined and there no matter what coat change was occuring. =)


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Do you have any pictures of the dam and sire? He's a gorgeous little horse.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Yep, smoky brown or brownskin (I _think_ those are technically the same thing).

And a gorgeous one at that .


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## Aiya (Jul 11, 2012)

Ohhhh I see, thanks ThirteenAcres. So would it just be countershading then? It looks really interesting on him, I like it!


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Aiya said:


> Ohhhh I see, thanks ThirteenAcres. So would it just be countershading then? It looks really interesting on him, I like it!


Yep! If it faded in and out or disappeared with the seasons and coat changes, it would be countershading.


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## PurpleMonkeyWrench (Jun 12, 2012)

There's a dark buckskin at the stables I ride at that looks exactly like this horse.


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

**** your horse is the spitting image of my Dusty and he does the same thing changes colors alot has a dorsal stripe and a few small leg barrings. Do you ever get comments about him looking like Denny from the Snowy River movies.... I get it all the time when people see Dusty for the first time.


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## Aiya (Jul 11, 2012)

No I never get any comments about him looking like Denny lol! 

His sire is Guaranteed Gold, the cremello TB stallion of True Colours Farm. I won't post any pictures of him without his owner's permission but here is her website. True Colours Farm | Breeders of Unique Thoroughbreds, Sport Horses, and Paints I have been lucky enough to meet and deal with GG, he is a wonderful stallion, very sweet boy 

I do have a few pictures of his dam, they aren't very good but I'll post them anyway. She is a 16.1 hh CWHBA mare by Sergeant Pepper(Holsteiner stallion).


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## TexanFreedom (Apr 2, 2012)

I *think* she is brown, but since I learned about browns, every 'bay' horse looks brown to me>.< she definitely has that sooty countershading. 

He could either be a sooty buckskin, or a sooty brown buckskin.


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

i think there is no sooty buckskin, i think sooty usually comes from a horse being brown based, if you look at most brown buckskins, they look sooty. so im going with a Brown Buckskin


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

I believe that GG is an At carrier. 

I also believe that the horse in the op is a brownskin/smokey brown.


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## Aiya (Jul 11, 2012)

So is "brown buckskin" different than "smokey brown"? I haven't heard of brown buckskin before but I do know that there are some GG offspring that are smokey brown for sure. I believe they were DNA tested as well. Hmm this is so interesting! 

TexanFreedom, I'm with you on that one! Since reading about brown horses, all bays look brown to me! I guess bay is a rare colour now lol


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

No, they are the same thing. Smokey brown/brownskin/brown buckskin is black + brown agouti (instead of bay agouti) + cream. Where as buckskins are black + bay agouti + cream.


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## Aiya (Jul 11, 2012)

Oh I see! Thanks NdAppy! 

Does anyone know a company where I can send in his hair to get DNA tested?


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

Here is my boy.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Pet DNA Services of AZ - Equine Services << This is the only company that currently tests for brown and only brown/agouti. 

UC Davis and Animal genetics tests for everything else.


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## Aiya (Jul 11, 2012)

LuvMyPerlinoQH said:


> Here is my boy.


He is puuurdy! Little bit lighter than my boy but they are definitely similar. Is he a QH? 

Thanks again NdAppy!  I did send them an email once and they never got back to me, I'll try again though. I thought maybe there was another place that can test for it but I guess not.


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

Yes he is a QH I couldnt find any decent darker shots he's yellow to a dark gold to a brownish black color and his dorsal stripe ,points and mane and tail are always a chocolate color He's my heart horse my been there done it guy.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

LuvMyPerlinoQH said:


> Yes he is a QH I couldnt find any decent darker shots he's yellow to a dark gold to a brownish black color and his dorsal stripe ,points and mane and tail are always a chocolate color He's my heart horse my been there done it guy.


He does look like Denny!

Back in the day I always thought Denny was grulla because I'd never seem a horse of that color. I was like 13 at that time. Haha
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

ThirteenAcres said:


> He does look like Denny!
> 
> Back in the day I always thought Denny was grulla because I'd never seem a horse of that color. I was like 13 at that time. Haha
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
Some say he's ugly others call him a mule but he's gorgeous to me inside and out and since I foot all his bills lol my opinion is the only one that counts


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

I personally think he's a gorgeous color. He doesn't look like a mule to me. Though I think a lot of mules are gorgeous too. =)


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

I know nothing about color......but is is GORGEOUS!!!


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## Reno Bay (Jul 8, 2012)

He's such a pretty boy! I looked at his gorgeous sire on True Colors' website. Talk about amazingly beautiful animals. If I ever get another horse after Reno, I'll probably try to purchase a colored Thoroughbred from Norsire Farms...they're in my state and breed the most gorgeous pinto and dilute Thoroughbreds.


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## Aiya (Jul 11, 2012)

So, I was discussing my boy's colour with some others and we were debating on whether he could possibly be dun or have some type of modifier gene. His dam is half morgan and I know they can have some pretty funky colours so she may have passed something on. He does have a full brother that is a light palomino with tons of bend 'or spots, cool looking horse!

Is it possible he could have gotten a modifier gene or something from her? One person seems to think he is dun 100%, he has a "dorsal stripe" and he also has the lighter hairs on his mane and tail. 

I have sent his hair out to be tested for the brown (At) gene, so that might help to determine his colour a little bit. I will post the results when I get them! I will probably send his hair out to another place to test for his colour to see what he really is!


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## kctop72 (Aug 25, 2011)

They are all so pretty! Can't wait to find out what the results are. I too love Denny and that movie....one of my favorites!


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Subbing for the results


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## MelissaAnn (Aug 26, 2011)

You have such a pretty horse! Subbing for the results. But in the mean time, can you post some really clear pictures of his back so we can all take a look at the dorsal stripe/counter shading in question?


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## Aiya (Jul 11, 2012)

Thanks! Sure, I will try to get pictures of his back tonight. Of course, I have a million pictures of him and none of them clearly show his stripe!


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## Aiya (Jul 11, 2012)

Ok, I swear he wants to make a liar out of me! I took pictures of his back tonight and of course you can barely see his stripe. :hide:

He is getting his winter coat in right now so the stripe is hiding a bit. I noticed when he sheds out or grows a coat, the stripe hides for a while. It is normally very dark and noticeable when he has his full winter coat or full summer coat.

Oh well...what can ya do! lol Here are the pictures anyway, I know it's most likely countershading and he is just smokey brown but you never know


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Definitely counter shading even just from past pictures. I think any of our color experts will determine 100% NOT dun. He also has no leg barring.


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## Aiya (Jul 11, 2012)

Yes, I figured he wasn't dun. There were just some ladies that seemed to think that he may have a dun gene or something because of his colour and the stripe and the morgan in him. I just thought I would get some more opinions on here because they wouldn't believe me when I said he wasn't dun and there was no way he COULD be dun! 

I'm pretty sure he is smokey brown, he just has really cool highlights and a stripe that make him unique


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## AnnaHalford (Mar 26, 2012)

Well, the experts on here put my Luna as a smoky brownskin, and they do look pretty similar colour-wise, up to and including the countershading being much more pronounced in winter...


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Brown buckskin is so delicious!


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## MelissaAnn (Aug 26, 2011)

I think smokey brown /brown buckskin might be my new favorite color. SO pretty!


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## Aiya (Jul 11, 2012)

And the results are in! Drumroll please......!!


The report for Simon said "Test specific for the seal brown version/allele ‘At’ of Agouti. One dose of ‘At’ detected. The horse can be either A/At, or At/a". 

I think I am going to go ahead and do the test for agouti as well. The person from the lab told me if he is At/a then it would be justified to call him smokey brown 

Thoughts? Should I go ahead and test for the agouti? Or is this enough info to say he is smokey brown for certain so I can save my money  lol


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Wow, they won't even tell you if the other allele is 'a' or not without another test? They're certainly milking the fact that they are the only ones with a test for At, aren't they?  

Personally, with the test positive for At and his appearance, I'd think it's enough to say he's probably At/a and therefore smoky brown.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

he sure has some pretty dapples. his color looks almost grulla. He is a cute horse.


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## Aiya (Jul 11, 2012)

Thanks stevenson! 

Verona, the person that emailed me said that the agouti test is separate than the "At" test...pfft yeah right lol. I agree with you so I think I'll just save my money. I'm pretty sure he is smokey brown, it's not like he is a stud so it's not really a big deal!


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Bay agouti is dominate over brown agouti. If he was had the bay allele you would know it as he would appear as a more typical buckskin. 

The test they are talking about for agouti is the test to see if he is homozygous or heterozygous. All the At test tests for is the presence of the brown allele.


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## Aiya (Jul 11, 2012)

NdAppy said:


> Bay agouti is dominate over brown agouti. If he was had the bay allele you would know it as he would appear as a more typical buckskin.
> 
> The test they are talking about for agouti is the test to see if he is homozygous or heterozygous. All the At test tests for is the presence of the brown allele.


So would you say he has the brown agouti because he is more brown and not as buckskin looking? Then he would have the recessive At/a pattern, correct? 

Sorry, I'm just trying to understand all this!


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## Boo Walker (Jul 25, 2012)

Beautiful beautiful!!


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Yep I would say that he has no bay agouti and is carrying and displaying brown agouti. That means he has at least one copy of brown.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

From the test results Aiya quoted, it sounds like they did zygosity and determined he was heterozygous for At. The question just remains as to whether the other allele is 'a' or 'A.' The other test that company offers tests for the non-agouti 'a' to determine if the horse is At/a or (by process of elimination) At/A.


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## SunnyMeadeFarm (Sep 3, 2012)

I think he is no doubt a sooty buckskin, sooty creates the countershading and brown color.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

No the horse in question is a smokey brown/brownskin/brown buckskin. He has been genetically tested for and carries/displays the brown (At) gene.


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## Aiya (Jul 11, 2012)

His sire is known to pass on the agouti gene, he has quite a few smokey brown foals. I guess that means we can almost say for certain he is At/A?

I thought I would update with some recent pictures. The mare on the left is a dun and Simon is on the right. You can see the mare's dorsal stripe and Simon's fake dorsal stripe aka counter shading. 









Here is a picture of his face with his winter coat and bandit mask 









I love his colour changes from season to season, so interesting.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

He would have to be Ata. If he had A (the bay form of agouti) he would be a regular buckskin.


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## Aiya (Jul 11, 2012)

Ohhh I see. I always get those letters wrong lol!


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

:lol: That's not hard to do.


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