# Confidence issues.



## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

So I have pretty bad confidence when it comes to horses. My TB mare is not making that any better! She can be so bold sometimes! while I am riding her she stops and pulls her head down then when I pull it back up she tries to rear and walks backwards. Also sometimes when I ask her to go forward she jumps forward then stops and does a little buck. She is not in pain anywhere as she was checked all over. Her saddle pinches a bit at the withers but I started using a saddle riser a while ago and it keeps the saddle well off the withers. It fits everywhere else. Would the saddle being a bit close to her withers make her behave like that? I know it doesn't seen like much but it terrifies me and people are starting to give up on helping me because I am always to afraid to ride her. They say they are sick of me complaining about her and I should just sell her. But I really don't want to as she has huge potential and I feel she could help me in the long run. I don't mind her bucking but the pulling her head down it was scares me. Is there anything I can do to stop her doing it? Also she has only started backing up the past few weeks so I dunno what she is doing! When I ride her she is a brat. When other people ride her she might give a little buck and throw her head around a bit but she never pulls her head down or backs up. What am I doing wrong?! She also only pulls her head down while walking. I rode her the other day for the first time in over a month. Somebody else rode her before me. She was fine but she started with her head again so I got her trotting to cool her off then I got down. I felt fine on her then but I still think she is gonna do something bad next time I get on her. One day she is extremely good and then the next she is the total opposite that is why I am always afraid to get on her...Can anyone help me with my confidence?

Sorry for the long post XD


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## Gizmo (Dec 19, 2010)

Well number one is DON'T LET HER BULLY YOU! When she does the head thing or a buck don't be afraid to give her a smack or a quick snap with a rein and say "hey! That is enough!" When I was younger I got bulled really bad by this little morgan mare and it stopped me from riding for a really long time and then I started to work on a farm with Mustangs and they are super smart, like to play around with your a lot especially the one I used to own. So I got confidence by not letting him get away with things and he respected me for it. Since she is wanted to rear when you pull her head up, do you think possibly something could be wrong in her mouth as well? Maybe you have too harsh of a bit in there? What are you using? But like I said she could be picking up on your lack of self confidence and saying "hey, I bet I can get away with this!" and she does. Don't let her! Even if you have to get off and give her a good smack and a talking to, do what you got to. There isn't a reason you should be afraid of her. She needs to know who is boss.


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

She has a dutch gag. And she just got her teeth done a few weeks ago so they should be ok. I don't always pull her head up because I am afraid of what she will do so I just let go of the reins !


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## Gizmo (Dec 19, 2010)

Hmmm... that's not really a harsh bit so I don't think its that. And you said her teeth were just done so its not that. So I think she is taking your for what you got. I definitely wouldn't let go of the reins. Sometimes, when my horse wants to eat I have to give him a little kick to stop. Have you ever tried that instead of pulling on her? Anther opinion is instead of pulling straight back, pull her to one side, even if you have to go around in a complete circle.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Sarah,

Sorry to hear that you are this place of fearing the very horse that you want to keep. To be honest, you might rethink the keeping her decision. I am not suggesting that a person should give up every time they start having difficulties with their horse. But the overall atmoshere between you guys feels kind of uncomfortable for you. The horse may do better in the hands of someone who is not scared of her. No insult intended to you. I am scared of some horses and would not keep them if they were given to me.

I used to ride a horse that often scared me. It was that never knowing if it was going to be a good ride or a bad one that never allowed me to settle and kept me from growing as a rider. Some folks thrive on the challenge. For me, no thank you. 
Now that I am riding a different horse, I enjoy riding so much more and I have become a much more confident rider, even if I ride a more challenging horse. I just needed some experiences of success, piled one on the other, to change my overall view of myself as a horsewoman.
This would be my advcice to you; think about getting a different horse that better suits your personality. Maybe not a Thbd. Maybe a nice Cob? I hear that Irish Cobs are wonderful horses.

However, here's one bit of useful advice if you want to keep working at this;
When your mare goes to put her head down, drive her forward. Do it as briskly as you dare. You will give her a good thump with your heels and she will throw her head up and leap forward. When she does, shorten the reins and move her immediately into a working trot. when she settles and brings her head down, come to a walk and walk on. Instead of pulling against her, you drive her forward.

I would look seriously into having a saddle fitter look at your mare. A painful saddle can cause some really bad behavior. Over time, the nerves become irritated, then numb and then muscle will atrophy.
Feel free to take some photos of your mare with the saddle on her back, no pad at all. Take it when she is squared up on flat ground and in good light. Front, angled, side, rear, both sides. I would love to see it.

Don't be ashamed of having fear. Only a very few horse people don't have fear. The fearful rider who gets on is the brave one.


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## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

is she off the track? have you had a trainer ride her? does she misbehave with someone whom is more confident.... just as much as she misbehaves with you?


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

I have wanted to sell her a lot of times but I think I cannot just give up. And the people that are now telling me they are sick of my complaining were the ones who told me not to sell her because she could be a great horse if I kept working with her. 


I will try get some pictures of the saddle on her today. I checked over all of her back area and withers for pain and there was none so I don't think it is the saddle.

She was never raced as far as I know. She was supposed to be used as a trek horse but when someone else got on her he said all she wanted to do was go. I suppose that is just her breed. She can be extremely lazy though!

A trainer rode her in the first week I had her but not since then.

She does misbehave a bit with the other person who rides her but not as bad as with me. Because he actually does not take her behaviour and she gets a few slaps with whip from him when she is like that.


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## WalkerLady (Jul 22, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> I used to ride a horse that often scared me. It was that never knowing if it was going to be a good ride or a bad one that never allowed me to settle and kept me from growing as a rider. Some folks thrive on the challenge. For me, no thank you.
> Now that I am riding a different horse, I enjoy riding so much more and I have become a much more confident rider, even if I ride a more challenging horse. I just needed some experiences of success, piled one on the other, to change my overall view of myself as a horsewoman.


It could have been me who wrote this. I used to ride a horse that would spook at absolutely nothing, jump, whirl and bolt. I think at sometime in the past he'd learned if he could dump his rider he could get out of work. Sometimes I stayed in the saddle and sometimes I didn't. And I never knew when it would happen. Some rides were great. He was my first horse and I spent two years with him. When I look back I feel that time was wasted, because I didn't grow at all as a rider and in fact I lost a huge amount of confidence. Now I ride a calm, sensible horse and am slowly regaining what I lost, but I really regret the time I wasted on that horse.


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## EmilyandNikki (Sep 7, 2010)

Sounds like to me, you need to regain your confidence on a more mild mannered horse. You need to get on one that will boost your confidence so you can bring that confidence BACK to your TB and stop what your horse is doing. Your horse is simply taking control of you. 

My instructor thought that I was ready to ride and deal with a quarter horse that we have. Sure I could ride him like a dream, but on the ground, he destroyed my confidence. My instructor put me on the oldest lesson horse we had. He was calm and mild mannered. I can't say I learnt a lot of technique from him, but he boosted my confidence. He also tripped a lot, and I had to learn how to support him and limit his trips the best I could(ex. reiner retrained english with arthritis. Still kept in lessons because my instructor/BO wanted to keep him going as long as possible. Usually used for pony rides, but every few days he had a student on him). I have to say I did learn a fair bit from him. He allowed me to now deal with the aggressive quarter horse, and our clever and foolish quarter cross.

So ask someone you know if they'd mind giving you lessons on there not so dominant horse, so you can bring it back to your horse.


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

So I rode her today and she a bit better. She maybe pulled her head down twice but I did not take it from her and pushed her forward. But she kept swinging her behind around and backing up! When I kicked her forward she backed up. The only way I could get her to move was to hit her on the shoulder with the whip or make her follow another horse. Also today she kept swishing her tail while trotting. she has never done that before. She also pinned her ears back :/ Maybe it was because horses were cantering up behind her or something...I did feel a lot more confident on her and kept her going so I guess that is an improvement. I would usually get off. I did not canter her though. Maybe because she seemed angry while trotting so I did not want to push it XD

And I checked her saddle out. When I am on her I cannot even fit my baby finger between the saddle and her withers! So I am gonna get a new saddle but I wanna know for certain it is the saddle making her a bit mad so how do I know?



Here are the best pictures I could get of the saddle...










She has a big behind I could not see over it XD



















While she would not go forward I tried to get her to accept the bit 




























Look at those withers! How am I ever gonna get a saddle to fit her! Is there anyway the back muscles would like build up to the withers so they are not so high? 




























As ya can see the riser raises the saddle off the withers a bit but it is not help while I am on her :/


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## Gizmo (Dec 19, 2010)

Good for you! Excuse my language everyone, but I think she was just ****y at you for not taking it. She will probably get a little mad and then just get over it because she is going to learn that YOU are the boss not her. Her saddle looks fine to me. I don't think its that I think she was just getting away with bad habits. Just keep it up and be the boss and she will learn and get over it. I'm really happy for you.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Dear Friend,

Thank you for sharing those photos.  Get her out of that saddle ASAP! It is way to wide in front and if you cannot get even a baby finger under the pommel unmounted, imagine how much pressure is on the top of her wither bone with your weight in the saddle! Now , mulitply that with each trot step, and if you are not a balanced rider, then the mulitiplication factor goes up even more. That saddle is probably the root of most of the bad behavior.

On the good side, this means that when the problem is taken care of the mystery is solved. On the bad side, it may take awhile for the soreness to go away and she may be saddle sour for some time even after you geet a better fitting saddle.

Just out of curiosity, how did your horse and that saddle come together?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Really, if you cannot get a finger under the pommel when you are mounted, it is not a good fit.

Also, is this horse always ridden with all that gadgetry on it? The elevator bit, the martingale?

from what little I could see, your position in the saddle isn't bad, just roll hand over to thumb on top, ne?


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

Thanks Gizmo I was really happy today with how I did  I am gonna have to just keep doing that.


Ok so when I got the horse I went to the tack shop to get tack and that is the saddle the shop owner picked for her. She said it would pinch her wither a bit so she gave me a thick saddle cloth. I honestly knew nothing about saddle fitting then. If I did I would not have got the saddle...It is a fairly cheap one too so I am gonna get a better quality one. I will probably just lunge her for a while without a saddle so her back can have a break.

I can be a bit unbalanced while trotting especially on her because she trots so fast!

And yup she always had that bit and martingale. She is strong so needs that bit and well someone suggested a martingale to keep her head down. 

In the picture I was moving my hands around to get her to go on the bit but yeah I always forget to put my thumbs on top!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Sarah, that trotting fast is all part and parcel with her trying to run out from under a pinching saddle. Horses are like that sometimes. She may also drop her back down too, avoiding contact. Will make it very difficult to have her on the bit. She may tuck her chin down, but her back will still be dropped and her energy still in a "backward" frame. That's also explains her wanting to back up and try to back out from under the discomfort.

you could take this time to do some ground work with her and build your confidence with her. Just don't let her get spoiled while off.
You can lunge her over ground poles, that is good for the back.


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## Gizmo (Dec 19, 2010)

Oh sorry miss read the part about not fitting the finger in when you were on her. Yeah try a new saddle. My local tack store is really helpful and just tell them she has really high withers. They would probably be able to find something for you.


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## DieselPony (Jul 26, 2010)

I agree with losing the saddle! And finding a different horse to ride a few times. 
I just spent the fall working on getting my confidence back up after time off, and I rode this one horse a couple of times and just the way it went, my confidence sky rocketed back to a good enough level that I can now ride my greenie again.

Is it possible for you to get a chiro or massage person to check you horse's back?
I used my one saddle on my horse for just a month a couple times a week and my mare started getting cranky. Had the chiro out and he showed me just how tight her muscles had gotten. Its like a bad fitting shoe, those muscle cramps that hit your feet and how bad they hurt even after an hour of wearing them? Imagine that pain all through back.

Best of luck! I hope it all works out, she's cute!


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

Ok so I will get a new saddle fitted tomorrow and leave it by in the shop until her back feels better. She is a really nice horse on the ground so I hope getting a new saddle will make her better to ride eventually. And I will have to exercise her someway because as you can see she doesn't have much muscles and I have had her for over three months! A lot of things keep happening and then she is left for a few days until she can be worked again. Ground poles sound good as she can get confused on what to do with them. 

I will also take lessons on other horses to get my confidence back up and so I still get to ride 

Oh and yeah I will get someone out to check her back. I should have thought of this sooner! She must be in a lot of pain. And it explains why she behaves good when she has had a two week break from the saddle and then misbehaves the next day she is ridden. Poor girl =(


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Sarah, what a good sport you have been about seeking and taking advice online . I hope things work out better for you and your cute mare. Will you get another All purpose saddle or a dressage saddle? So many decisions!
Too bad you are so far away, I would happily let you ride Mac, who is a total confidence booster!


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

Probably all purpose because I like jumping but I also want to do a lot of flat work with her to get her moving nice and softly.

Aww I love the name Mac! There is a mac where I work but he is a fat little shetland pony XD


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## Amlalriiee (Feb 22, 2010)

^^My Mac is NOT a confidence booster 

okay, OP you've got some great advice going on here....I agree on all counts. Lose the saddle, it's way too wide...and if she pulls down push forward. 

The only thing I have to add is that if she keeps backing up on you when you ask for forward(and I mean with a saddle that doesn't hurt), back her up til she won't anymore. make it so that she WANTS to go forward. When she starts backing up and you don't want her to, continue to back her more, more, more, more, when she makes a move to go forward, relax and allow her to move freely. If she doesn't try to go forward, stop backing every now and then to offer that chance. If she doesn't accept, continue to back. I think you'll find that if she knows she has to work in one direction or the other, she'll choose forward


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## WalkerLady (Jul 22, 2010)

Sarahandlola said:


> She has a big behind I could not see over it XD


Does this saddle make my butt look big? :lol: :lol:


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

Lol XD


I got her a new saddle today and it fits! And it is very comfortable! I will take pictures of it tomorrow.


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## Gizmo (Dec 19, 2010)

Lol! That's funny. Great! I hope it helps!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

You got a saddle already? That's amazingly fast. I can't wait to see the photos. what kind is it?


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

It is a Falcon All purpose english saddle. Very nice and comfy! And I got it for 330 euro. It can go up to over 1000 euro for a new one and the one I got is just like new.


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

So I rode her in the new saddle for the first time today and all was going great until near the end she started pulling her head down again! Grrrr! I was just thinking she hadn't done it at all then she does it XD So I guess she is just doing it to annoy me. 

No backing up at all though! She went forward very well so I am happy about that.


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

I don't understand the thought process of using a martingale to keep her head down when you are uncomfortable with her head down. Did you ditch the martingale yet? 

If my horse would back up when I asked for forward movement, I would not keeping backing and backing. I would disengage her hindquarters and get her turning on the forehand. And ask for forward movement again. Anything your horse does should be your idea, not hers.


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

The martingale is there because she holds her head to high....I never said I did not like her head down I said I did not like it when she pulled her head down and pulling me down with her.


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

Sarahandlola said:


> The martingale is there because she holds her head to high....I never said I did not like her head down I said I did not like it when she pulled her head down and pulling me down with her.


So, she is rooting her nose down, grabbing hold of the bit, and pulling the reins out of your hands? I would just caution you to be careful with the martingale. Used improperly, it can cause alot of damage. Used correctly, it is a short term training aide, not meant for everyday riding. She needs to be taught to carry her head appropriately, not forced to keep it where you want it. Best of luck, she is a cute little mare.


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

Yup that is what she is doing :/ She does now hold her head very well I could take the martingale off and see how she goes and thanks =)


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## furandfeather (Jan 4, 2011)

Sarahandlola said:


> Yup that is what she is doing :/ She does now hold her head very well I could take the martingale off and see how she goes and thanks =)


keep up the good work shes a stunner,im sure you will get used to her ways and she yours .


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