# Help on canter and sitting trot



## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

While a number of factors may be influencing your problems, you seem to have already recognized the major cause of problems riders have in following the motions of a horse at trot and canter – tension. So, how can you address this issue?

Knowledge helps. Then, if you can apply this knowledge, experience will reinforce it and make your riding easier. 

A major cause of tension when trotting is fear of pain from impact. In an effort to protect our bodies from impact, we tend to tighten the muscles around our crotch. This is just the opposite of what we should do. Tense muscles in the crotch area cause us to stiffen and become much like a plank resting on the horse’s back. A plank cannot follow a horse’s movement. Instead, it is propelled upward by the horse’s muscular movement and, alternately, drawn downward by gravity only to impact with the horse’s back and be thrown upward once more.

If we can get ourselves to relax the tension in our muscles – both crotch and legs – gravity becomes our friend. Our body acts more as a loosely packed sandbag resting on the horse’s back. It absorbs the movement of the horse’s muscles through a constant rearrangement of the individual grains of sand within the bag. In the same way, various parts of our body can redistribute themselves if our muscles are free of tension. Of course, we must maintain our balance, but this is easier if we do not block the effect of gravity pulling our legs downward by squeezing the horse with our legs.

These same principles apply when cantering. Especially when cantering, we should also allow our pelvis to tilt and flow with our horse’s movement as our upper torso remains more stationary. 

Any muscular tension applied when cuing the horse should be brief and temporary so it does not interfere with our body’s movements in following our horse’s movements.

Any exercises to help improve our balance and flexibility when off the horse can only help. Practicing relaxed good posture even when off the horse, will also accustom our bodies to what things should feel like when riding.


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## ongket31 (Apr 25, 2017)

TXhorseman said:


> While a number of factors may be influencing your problems, you seem to have already recognized the major cause of problems riders have in following the motions of a horse at trot and canter – tension. So, how can you address this issue?
> 
> Knowledge helps. Then, if you can apply this knowledge, experience will reinforce it and make your riding easier.
> 
> ...


I can sit pretty well when I canter, but when I start applying leg cues that's when my body lifts up. For sitting trot I find it really difficult, I remember when I first started riding last year in December when i was in Australia, I can do sitting trot. My trainer will ask me to ride without stirrups to improve my seat, it's a very long and painful process after you ride without stirrups.


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## Cherrij (Jan 30, 2013)

For sitting trot, I suggest lunge line sessions, where you can focus more on your own seat, quite often bareback or without stirrups, and the best part - imagine that you are a mermaid! Your hips and waist have to move like you were swimming underwater. Once they catch on this movement and stay with the horse, it is just the matter of keeping yourself relaxed and only moving as much as needed to stay with the movement of the horse. 
I still have issues with keeping my legs for cues at sitting trot with stirrups, but staying seated in the canter transition is not an issue. Also, it depends on the horse a lot. How the horse moves, is it easy to sit or now. 

Also, once your legs know how to grip ever so slightly with open hips and only grabbing the saddle with your knees so you can post, your lower leg becomes free and independent and then can be used for cues easier. 

The whole idea is for the rider to be as relaxed as possible, but doing what is necessary - so your waist and hips open and relax to accommodate the movement, but your lower leg works to encourage the horse.


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## ongket31 (Apr 25, 2017)

I was told to apply pressure using the outside leg and do sitting trot before asking for canter, but just yesterday the horse I rode I never canter before although I rode him to the horse show last month. I find it hard to apply pressure because I'm just bouncing on the saddle, any excercise I can do to help with my sitting trot? Another thing to mention is the horse that I rode most of the time don't like whip, he will spook when tap him. I want to try round end spurs but my trainer is very against the use of spurs, don't think I'll get to use one if I don't own a horse.


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

More ways have been used to ask for a canter than any other gait. To get a better idea of the various methods that have been employed, I suggest you read the book "Masters of Equitation on Canter" compiled by Martin Diggle. 

Remember that cues should be given only briefly before returning to a following seat. While it is best to develop a good sitting trot, you may also cue from a rising trot simply by sitting for a brief moment while applying the canter cue. Then, you remain sitting as the horse begins to canter.


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

Don't use spurs. You're not ready for them. 

The 'correct' way to ask for the canter involves the outside leg being placed further back and the inside leg at the girth to ask for the transition. But, if the horse has been trained to wait for pressure on the outside leg, then that's what you need to do. 

You are tensing up and trying to force the sitting trot, very common. You can't hold on with the legs, that makes it worse.

You need seat lessons to divorce your legs from your seat. Ask for a few lunge lessons without stirrups. 

Good exercises to work on is swinging the legs from the hip while having the seat remain still. You can do it one at a time and at a halt to start with. It'll probably hurt at first because these are underused muscles. Once thats easier, you can add with legs(scissor) and walking/trotting. Its difficult not having access to a horse outside of lessons, but one thing i enjoyed doing on my horse was crossing my stirrups and trotting on a circle with my hands on the front of the saddle(effectively lunging myself). I would alternate swinging my legs and bringing my knees up and together infront of the saddle(so only my balance and seat bones were keeping me on). My horse is pretty used to me flailing around on him.


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

You can also ask for the canter out of a two point. Removes the need to sit while still getting you into the canter, then in the interm you can work on the sitting trot.


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## ongket31 (Apr 25, 2017)

ApuetsoT said:


> Don't use spurs. You're not ready for them.
> 
> The 'correct' way to ask for the canter involves the outside leg being placed further back and the inside leg at the girth to ask for the transition. But, if the horse has been trained to wait for pressure on the outside leg, then that's what you need to do.
> 
> ...


I don't need spurs if the horse is responsive enough, but sometimes the horse I rode is just so lazy that my trainer always ask me to work harder on my legs(kicking) and give it a tap with the whip if the horse don't listen. I get tired very quickly for horses like this after riding for 10-20 mins. I was hoping for some excercise I can do when I'm off the horse to help improve my seat.


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

ongket31 said:


> I don't need spurs if the horse is responsive enough, but sometimes the horse I rode is just so lazy that my trainer always ask me to work harder on my legs(kicking) and give it a tap with the whip if the horse don't listen. I get tired very quickly for horses like this after riding for 10-20 mins. I was hoping for some excercise I can do when I'm off the horse to help improve my seat.


If you're not able to sit the trot, you won't have enough control over your leg to utilize the spurs. Use the crop more.

Do you have access to a rain barrel or similar? You can set a barrel up on it's side on some blocks and sit on it and do similar exercises. If you tighten up or sit crooked, you'll fall off the barrel.


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

To be blunt, nothing helps much other than practice and a forward horse. Most school horses aren’t forward and if have to keep them going at all times, you will tense up.

The next part is my theory but I did find a few scientific papers to back it up: some scientists claim that all physical skills must be practiced until they become ingrained in the nerve cells of the spine. This appears necessary because the round trip information must travel between the brain and the limbs is too far to be fast enough for the skill to be effective.

Some dirty tricks I figured out while I was struggling myself: 

- get a gel seat saver or silicone breaches, or even rubber boots. The stick just enough to give you a split second advantage to rebalance. 
- ask for lunge lessons, ride without stirrups but do hold onto the saddle. Slowly release your grip until it’s just enough to hold you steady. Practice like that so that your body is learning how it should move, not how to tense up.

Oh, one more thing, sitting trott is very different on different horses. It could well be that you were able to sit it when you were taking lessons on a different horse but you cannot on the one you are riding now.


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## Cherrij (Jan 30, 2013)

It involves a lot of thinking and trying and experimenting on your part. I have gotten so far, that now when I was riding with groups to trails, almost every time we started a trot, I tried to sit it - no matter what horse I was riding. It gave me a chance to practice my skills when I can't take lessons. 

Many have already suggested the same thing - take lunge lessons with no stirrups, with a smart trainer on the lunge line, and work with it. Find how to relax your body and stay with the horse. 
And as somebody here said - your legs have to divorce your body. 
I actually find that both legs and arms have to be "off" your body. Your seat becomes one with the horse and your arms as well. You have to train sitting trot to the point where you can do whatever you want with your legs and your seat stays with the horse no matter what.


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## ongket31 (Apr 25, 2017)

Hopefully I can get it right without spending too much time, it's quite difficult for me to learn sitting trot because pretty much each lesson I'll ride different horse. Last time when I'm preparing for the horse show then I'll get to ride the same horse until the show is over. I have full seat breeches with suede seat but never tried silicone breeches before, ditched my rubber boots and cheap short boots with half chaps because they're uncomfortable and don't provide enough grip, leather tall boots is still the best.


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

ongket31 said:


> Hopefully I can get it right without spending too much time, it's quite difficult for me to learn sitting trot because pretty much each lesson I'll ride different horse. Last time when I'm preparing for the horse show then I'll get to ride the same horse until the show is over. I have full seat breeches with suede seat but never tried silicone breeches before, ditched my rubber boots and cheap short boots with half chaps because they're uncomfortable and don't provide enough grip, leather tall boots is still the best.


I don’t think I explained properly, it’s not the fact that you are riding different horses, it’s about some horses having very comfortable trot that anyone can sit. The one you could sit to might have been an “easy” one. Just stick with it, it will come. 

Also, when people say “relax” it is misleading a novice rider. People who don’t yet know how to ride will try relaxing and start bouncing. “Relax” in horse speak means “keep muscle tone without being stiff”. Which is to say you can’t fully relax like you would in a recliner. Have approximately the same tone of muscles as you would when running. So, when running you won’t be stiff but you won’t be an over cooked noodle either. Actually, it’s the best analogy, uncooked vs al dente vs over cooked pasta. You want to aim for al dente.


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## charrorider (Sep 23, 2012)

This is what I've found out and what works for me. First off, not all horses have an equal trot. But the horses that keep their heads high are more bouncy. There's also the element of speed. A 5 mph trot is easier to sit than a 8 mph trot. As far as sitting the trot, this is what works for me. Seat deep in the cantle and move your hips back and forth (not up and down) with the movement of the horse. I can just stick it @ 5 mph, but at speeds of 7-8 mph, I find that back and forth movement of the hips is what works. Hope this helps.


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## ongket31 (Apr 25, 2017)

charrorider said:


> This is what I've found out and what works for me. First off, not all horses have an equal trot. But the horses that keep their heads high are more bouncy. There's also the element of speed. A 5 mph trot is easier to sit than a 8 mph trot. As far as sitting the trot, this is what works for me. Seat deep in the cantle and move your hips back and forth (not up and down) with the movement of the horse. I can just stick it @ 5 mph, but at speeds of 7-8 mph, I find that back and forth movement of the hips is what works. Hope this helps.


I will try it out for sure, I'm probably going to show in April, if I can master canter then I'll get to ride in more classes. Last year I only get to ride in two classes and only one class per day.


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## UnhappyHacker (Dec 30, 2017)

*canteringgg*

some horses have bigger trots than others, maybe ask if you can ride another horse with a smaller trot, just while you get used to it.
make sure you relax and lean back further than you think you have too, I found that when I tried to follow the horse using just my hips I would bounce every few strides, if you let your shoulders move back with the motion it will help loads.

saying all that theres no way for you to improve unless you put in the hours. practice cantering every second u can


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## ongket31 (Apr 25, 2017)

I managed to canter for a longer period of time today, but the horse buck for the first time. My trainer told me I'm pulling too strong on the rein when I'm cantering in a 20m circle, but if I'm turning left and squeeze my left foot the horse won't move away from pressure, I'm relying on the reins to do circles even in trot. Any suggestion on turning circles without relying too much on pulling the rein? I can't tap the horse with my whip when I'm cantering/trotting though.


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

If you are turning left, you should not be squeezing with your left foot. The left leg should simply be there to allow the horse something to bend its body around unless temporarily needed to cue for impulsion or to ask the horse to enlarge the arc of the circle. If the inside rein is called for, any use should be smooth and brief rather than a constant pulling action. The horse should be allowed to use its head and neck both to balance and to help pull its body forward.

The turn, in general, should be guided by the rider's whole body with the rider's outside leg (the one on the convex side of the horse -- towards the outside of the circle) back slightly. The main purpose of this is to help produce a bend in the body by keeping the haunches from swinging out. The action of the rider's outside leg, however, should not be forced. Consider it more of a restrained. If necessary, brief pressure may be applied by the rider's outside leg to help limit the size of the arc. The rider's whole upper body should be rotated in the direction of the turn. A good rule of thumb is to look about 60 degrees ahead on the circumference of the circle with the eyes in one's head and with imaginary eyes in one's chest. To help achieve this rotation of the torso, some say to point one's bellybutton where one wants to go. If your shoulders rotate with your torso and your hands rotate with your shoulders, you will also be neck reining and possibly applying a subtle influence on the inside of the bit.


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## ongket31 (Apr 25, 2017)

TXhorseman said:


> If you are turning left, you should not be squeezing with your left foot. The left leg should simply be there to allow the horse something to bend its body around unless temporarily needed to cue for impulsion or to ask the horse to enlarge the arc of the circle. If the inside rein is called for, any use should be smooth and brief rather than a constant pulling action. The horse should be allowed to use its head and neck both to balance and to help pull its body forward.
> 
> The turn, in general, should be guided by the rider's whole body with the rider's outside leg (the one on the convex side of the horse -- towards the outside of the circle) back slightly. The main purpose of this is to help produce a bend in the body by keeping the haunches from swinging out. The action of the rider's outside leg, however, should not be forced. Consider it more of a restrained. If necessary, brief pressure may be applied by the rider's outside leg to help limit the size of the arc. The rider's whole upper body should be rotated in the direction of the turn. A good rule of thumb is to look about 60 degrees ahead on the circumference of the circle with the eyes in one's head and with imaginary eyes in one's chest. To help achieve this rotation of the torso, some say to point one's bellybutton where one wants to go. If your shoulders rotate with your torso and your hands rotate with your shoulders, you will also be neck reining and possibly applying a subtle influence on the inside of the bit.


I'm squeezing with my left foot because I need to enlarge the arc of the circle and ask for impulsion, but enlarging the circle is quite hard as the horse won't respond to that very well. I'm using the rein more to enlarge the circle, in fact I'm pulling quite strong. I'll try to use my body to help then, I notice he will shake his head a lot even when I'm leading him with the bridle on. All the school horses use snaffle bit only.


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

One trick when you need to 'up' your leg is to turn your toe out. When you rotate the leg out, your calf automatically goes on and since you are moving from a flatter part of the leg to a rounder part, there is more pressure. Its like useing imaginary spurs. All without tensing and gripping that tends to happen with ignored leg aids. 

Turning is done without pulling. You use the outside rein to guide the shape of the circle and out outside leg pushes them around. Inside leg asks for more bend and the inside rein reinforces the bend. 

If you pull too much, you end up creating a circle of problems. Horse won't turn so you pull on the inside rein, horse loses rhythm and balance, becomes crooked, horse becomes harder to turn, rider pulls more... I'm quite familiar with the cycle. 

"Inside rein for bend and flexion, outside rein for speed and direction"


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I agree with Tx in that you have tension which causes you to bounce.

If you jump up and land with your legs straight you get a jar right up through your body. This can be likened to when you are trotting you are tense so get the jarring. 

_This is why I always teach a novice rider to obtain a good sitting trot before allowing them to trot rise. _

So, you need to do some exercises to get the idea of what muscles you need to be able to use. 

If you sit on a swing take notice of the muscles you need to propel the swing forward, same muscles to ask a horse to canter. 

With your sitting trot two things to try, first take your reins in one hand and with the other insert two finger under the pommel of the saddle and pull the saddle off the horses back. 
Another one that stops the tension, which is usually in your legs, is to ride with your legs hooked up over the front of the saddle. This puts you on your seat bones and you cannot grip with your legs so no bouncing. 

People go on about leg position, heels down ( often to the point of ridiculous,) hands in the correct position but very rarely do they teach the most influential part of the body, the seat.


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

ongket31 said:


> I'm squeezing with my left foot because I need to enlarge the arc of the circle and ask for impulsion, but enlarging the circle is quite hard as the horse won't respond to that very well. I'm using the rein more to enlarge the circle, in fact I'm pulling quite strong. I'll try to use my body to help then, I notice he will shake his head a lot even when I'm leading him with the bridle on. All the school horses use snaffle bit only.


Oh, I thought you were pulling on the inside rein. If using the outside rein to increase the circle's radius, you might try giving rather than pulling.

While you may use you inside leg to try to increase the circle's radius, I recommend using it carefully. Too much effort on your part may simply cause tension in the horse without achieving the purpose you desire. You might also try removing some pressure from you outside leg. Adding a bit extra pressure on the outside stirrup by flexing your outside ankle while keeping your heel down may also help draw the horse outward. When doing any of these things, try to keep you balance centered over your horse's center of balance.

Using too much force in an attempt to force a horse to do something often results in increasing tension in the horse rather than achieving the intended goal. It may even lead to frustrating the horse, resulting in any variety of expressions such as bucking or running away with the rider.


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## ongket31 (Apr 25, 2017)

ApuetsoT said:


> One trick when you need to 'up' your leg is to turn your toe out. When you rotate the leg out, your calf automatically goes on and since you are moving from a flatter part of the leg to a rounder part, there is more pressure. Its like useing imaginary spurs. All without tensing and gripping that tends to happen with ignored leg aids.
> 
> Turning is done without pulling. You use the outside rein to guide the shape of the circle and out outside leg pushes them around. Inside leg asks for more bend and the inside rein reinforces the bend.
> 
> ...


I do turn my toe out to give it more pressure, I don't know is it because of the spur rest but when I rub it instead of just squeezing it the horse responds better. But for now all I can do when I'm cantering is just squeeze it to get more impulsion, that's why I was thinking of spurs since that horse will buck if I use my whip. Usually I won't use my whip on him even if my trainer says give it a tap when he don't respond, instead I'll use my leg more.


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

If your instructor is saying to use the crop, them use it. Nothing more frustrating then repeating yourself to a student and having them do nothing and stay silent. If your scared of the house kicking out (which really should be schooled by your instructor. Not acceptable in a beginner lesson horse) then communicate that.


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## PunchnMe (Jan 1, 2018)

Yes! I am having trouble with the trot. Bareback. Saddle is OK except for the sitting trot. Bareback I have trouble with sitting and posting. :þ


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## ongket31 (Apr 25, 2017)

ApuetsoT said:


> If your instructor is saying to use the crop, them use it. Nothing more frustrating then repeating yourself to a student and having them do nothing and stay silent. If your scared of the house kicking out (which really should be schooled by your instructor. Not acceptable in a beginner lesson horse) then communicate that.


My trainer knows that horse doesn't like the whip and that's just how it is for that particular horse, I can only flick my whip once but whether the horse will kick out or move forward is a mystery, if I tap him lightly for multiple times my trainer said he can throw the rider off. The horse I'm riding now is not really a beginner horse but he is responsive, that's why I ride him for showing. I think no students are allowed to wear spurs if you ride school horse unless that's your own horse, when I do trail ride in Melbourne the staff said the same thing, only if you have your own horse, always work harder on your legs.


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## PunchnMe (Jan 1, 2018)

ongket31 said:


> After my very first horse show, my trainer is starting to train me on canter although I did canter earlier. I can't seems to get my body relax while cantering, thus having problems giving leg cues. I was told to do sitting trot 78before asking for canter, although I can get the horse to canter but my sitting trot is sucks, can't get my butt stick to the saddle. Any advice on improving it?


 i just remembered a good tip from my old trainer for sitting the trot and relaxing on it. (Which saddle? English?) Keeping your back straight and your elbows bent, sit on your 'pockets' and deep in the seat.


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## ongket31 (Apr 25, 2017)

PunchnMe said:


> i just remembered a good tip from my old trainer for sitting the trot and relaxing on it. (Which saddle? English?) Keeping your back straight and your elbows bent, sit on your 'pockets' and deep in the seat.


Yes it's english saddle, I guess I have to relax even more. My trainer said that I'm giving myself too much pressure because I only ride for about a year and expect to do everything perfect, but I didn't won the competition last year and the next horse show is in April, I can only ride in other classes if I can master canter/sitting trot. It's just frustrating when you just can't do things right, argh....


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## PunchnMe (Jan 1, 2018)

@ongket31 arg. I know what you mean. I hope my tip helped a bit. Yep, I think you will need to relax more. If you have a clear pic of you trying to sit the trot, that would be easier for me to see your positioning. 
I think someone said earlier to keep your legs bent, and if you don't you start to jarr around.


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## ongket31 (Apr 25, 2017)

I don't have any picture for now though, my legs are bent when I'm doing sitting trot, that horse is quite bouncy but I'm going to ride him for some time.


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## PunchnMe (Jan 1, 2018)

ongket31 said:


> I don't have any picture for now though, my legs are bent when I'm doing sitting trot, that horse is quite bouncy but I'm going to ride him for some time.


Good to know. If you do get a pic I would defiantly like to take a look.


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## jgnmoose (May 27, 2015)

I didn't read all the replies because I am short on time tonight, but I'm sure you got a lot of great ones.

If I had to teach someone to ride a little better, I'd say shorten your stirrups a notch and really focus on being fluid from your ribs to your mid-thigh.

Your middle section is where you ride a horse. Almost all of your weight should be right on your butt (seat). The best riders sit straight up no matter what the horse is doing. They do this because they have really good control of their midsection (core) and are balancing their entire body off it and as a result have a great seat. Doesn't matter if it is Bullriding or trail riding, the great ones all do this.


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## ongket31 (Apr 25, 2017)

If the horse shake his house after I put on the bridle on him, does it mean that the bit is not suitable for him? sometimes when I'm leading him he will shake his head also


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## PunchnMe (Jan 1, 2018)

ongket31 said:


> If the horse shake his house after I put on the bridle on him, does it mean that the bit is not suitable for him? sometimes when I'm leading him he will shake his head also


Nah, I think he is just 'feeling' (licking at it, chewing and moving it around the mouth) the bit. My horse does it ALOT. Quite normal. Depending on the bit. (Which is?)


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## ongket31 (Apr 25, 2017)

PunchnMe said:


> Nah, I think he is just 'feeling' (licking at it, chewing and moving it around the mouth) the bit. My horse does it ALOT. Quite normal. Depending on the bit. (Which is?)


Eggbutt snaffle bit


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## PunchnMe (Jan 1, 2018)

He/she should be fine with it! its a pretty mild bit, so im sure its just 'feeling' the bit.


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## ongket31 (Apr 25, 2017)

I managed to do trot to canter transition better than before, but still I can only squeeze with my leg to ask for more speed in canter. I try to shorten the stirrups one notch and it's uncomfortable, don't feel like my leg is at the right position either. My trainer said it takes her two years for her right foot to stay in the correct position no matter what, I had the same problem where my right foot will easily slide forward into the stirrup.


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## PunchnMe (Jan 1, 2018)

@ongket I haven't had trouble with my leg moving... Just bouncing with some unbalancement. (is that even a word? Nope. guess not. LOL.)


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

It may help to think of each part of your body being attached individually to the horse with Velcro. The joints and muscles of your body must move independently because of this. Such imagery may help you allow your body to move with your horse's movements.

Once the above is accomplished and established as an automatic reflex which you no longer need to think about, you can begin to experiment with adjusting various parts of your body and see how this change effects the movements of your horse.

This works well if you are consistently riding the same horse. If you ride different horses, things become more complicated.


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## ongket31 (Apr 25, 2017)

I do get to ride the same horse, maybe, until the next show which is happening in February if everything goes well. I just need more time to canter and have a good transition from trot to canter, we did some lateral movement and Salaam respond to my leg cues really well. Does the leather soles on my boots causes my foot to slide forward into the stirrup? I feel like getting another pair of tall boots with the Good Year Welted soles and without laces.


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

While leather soles can influence how easily the sole of a boot can slip over a surface, you should consider other causes.

The two most common causes of rider foot slippage are: 1) blocking of gravitational pull on the foot by a squeezing of the rider's leg against the side of the horse and 2) tense muscles which do not allow a rider's joints to flex as they should.


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## ongket31 (Apr 25, 2017)

Get to ride two point today and my legs can be so quite, no slippage. Canter still need some work though, I'm still pulling the rein when doing transition from trot to canter maybe because of tension or fear, but once I got him to canter I can maintain the pace quite well. Another thing is lateral movement, Salaam is a bit hard to move to the left due to his leg problem. Again, I try to tap him with my whip for reinforcement and Salaam will kick out. Is it ok to keep tapping him until he won't kick out?


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

ongket31 said:


> Get to ride two point today and my legs can be so quite, no slippage. Canter still need some work though, I'm still pulling the rein when doing transition from trot to canter maybe because of tension or fear, but once I got him to canter I can maintain the pace quite well. Another thing is lateral movement, Salaam is a bit hard to move to the left due to his leg problem. Again, I try to tap him with my whip for reinforcement and Salaam will kick out. Is it ok to keep tapping him until he won't kick out?


Pulling on the rein when transitioning from trot to canter is a common fault. If caused by fear, try consciously taking your hands forward. The feel of pulling on the reins may also be the result of not allowing your hands to be drawn forward when your horse's head and neck extend as part of the movement of the canter. Practice in staying flexible throughout your body and allowing it to follow your horse's movements should help with this. 

Still another cause of increased rein tension -- or "pulling on the reins" -- during canter departs may be the result of temporary loss of balance due to the sudden acceleration in the horse's movement. Again, consciously allowing your hands to go forward may help. You may also need to temporarily incline you upper body forward. Be careful, however, not to lean too much.

To try to help with the lateral movement to the left, try to apply pressure with your right leg in rhythm with your horse's movements. Your horse can only move its leg sideways while it is off of the ground. Therefore, time the leg presssure so that, as your horse's leg rises to step forward, you will be saying, "Move your leg a little sideways as well." If this alone does not do the trick, let me know. I can add a couple of other things to try.


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## ongket31 (Apr 25, 2017)

So I have lean forward a bit during canter departs and lean back during the canter? When moving sideways, the horse should be parallel to the fence, so I have to do half halt and leg yield. When moving left there's a tendency for the horse to break into walk as well, but it's really new for me to tap the horse, leg yield and half halt.


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

ongket31 said:


> So I have lean forward a bit during canter departs and lean back during the canter? When moving sideways, the horse should be parallel to the fence, so I have to do half halt and leg yield. When moving left there's a tendency for the horse to break into walk as well, but it's really new for me to tap the horse, leg yield and half halt.


Thanks for the request for clarification. I have learned that, if I can be misunderstood, I will be misunderstood. Therefore, it helps to get such feedback as your question supplies. Let me try to explain things a little differently to see if that helps. Don’t hesitate to give further feedback if I am unclear.

Think of what happens if you are standing in a bus when it takes off from the bus stop. The sudden acceleration may cause you to grab something in order not to fall backwards. If you don’t grab something, you must temporarily lean forward to keep your balance. As your body adjusts to the new speed of the bus, you do not lean backwards. You simply regain your neutral position of balance. In the canter depart, you may need to make similar adjustments in your body if you don’t want to depend on hanging unto something.

You may have been told to do a half-halt before a leg-yield as a means to alert the horse that something new is going to be asked of it. The half-halt may also be used as a means of asking it to re-balance. A problem may arise if the horse interprets the half-halt as a request to drop to a walk. Experiment by asking for the leg-yield without a half-halt.

If you are riding with the reins in two hands with your thumbs at the top while the reins pass from the horse’s mouth over the top of your hand and out the bottom, you can try the following. If you are attempting a leg-yield to the left, rotate your right hand so the fingernails are facing up. If you have slight contact with the reins, this should be enough to entice the horse to rotate its head at the pole just enough for you to slightly see its right eye and nostril without the horse bending its neck. About the same time, draw your right leg back slightly – maybe an inch – while keeping your heel down. Then, begin the pulsing motion of your right leg as I mentioned in my last post. Ideally, time it to coincide with the forward movement of your horse’s right hind foot.

It may also help to “open the door” with your left leg. Don’t do this like some who draw their leg several inches away from the horse’s side. Taking the leg this far away often leads the rider to lean to the right. Instead, try to simply release the pressure of your left leg on the horse’s side which is the result of gravity. At most, you may draw you leg an eighth or a quarter of an inch away from the horse’s side. This will assure an “open door” without causing you to lose your balance.

If these things don’t work, or if something seems unclear, please let me know.


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

You can grab a handful of mane or the front of the saddle during transitions to prevent yourself from catching their mouth until you get a feel for your balance. If you get any free time during you lessons, practice your two point. It'll build strength and balance.


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## ongket31 (Apr 25, 2017)

ApuetsoT said:


> You can grab a handful of mane or the front of the saddle during transitions to prevent yourself from catching their mouth until you get a feel for your balance. If you get any free time during you lessons, practice your two point. It'll build strength and balance.


I used to grab the monkey grip during transition from trot to canter but I'm trying not to rely on that, my trainer ask me to give it long rein so that I won't pull it too hard. I found it two point rather interesting, I have to keep my legs soft to absorb the horse movement and balance. What other skills I need to have for showjumping other than two point?


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

ongket31 said:


> I used to grab the monkey grip during transition from trot to canter but I'm trying not to rely on that, my trainer ask me to give it long rein so that I won't pull it too hard.


Long rein is good too. But there's no shame in grabbing mane. I still do, whether to remind myself to keep my hands quiet, if I'm going over a fence and horse gives a big jump, going through a grid, ect. 



> I found it two point rather interesting, I have to keep my legs soft to absorb the horse movement and balance. What other skills I need to have for showjumping other than two point?


That's a big question. Jumping, at it's core, is a very simple sport. Straightness and rhythm make a distance, and stay out of the horses way. Then you have to break that down. How do you make a horse straight? How do you keep a rhythm? How do you stay out of their way? Big questions. Best thing to do is work on becoming proficient at all 3 gaits to where you can ask for any of them and get it, the horse keeps a consistent pace. They move forward willingly and relaxed, and you can steer them where you want to go. Developing balance and strength will help you stay out of their way jumping. Being able to move the hands independent of the body. Two pointing, riding without stirrups, being able to do things like swing the legs or arms, open and close the hip angle while two pointing.


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## ongket31 (Apr 25, 2017)

How often do you show? My barn is organizing small local show every month, will it be too much for me to show every month?


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

ongket31 said:


> How often do you show? My barn is organizing small local show every month, will it be too much for me to show every month?


Once a year, if I'm lucky. Lol. I don't have a trailer and my barn doesn't host any. 

Nothing wrong with showing every month if you can afford it. I might wonder if it would be worth it, performance wise. Are you improving enough between shows. But really, you can do what you want.


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## ongket31 (Apr 25, 2017)

ApuetsoT said:


> Once a year, if I'm lucky. Lol. I don't have a trailer and my barn doesn't host any.
> 
> Nothing wrong with showing every month if you can afford it. I might wonder if it would be worth it, performance wise.


It's actually quite cheap because it's hosted at the riding school so I don't have to pay any extras, just the entry fee. 


ApuetsoT said:


> Are you improving enough between shows. But really, you can do what you want.


I'm not really going to show every month, but since I only showed once, it might be good for me to get more experience. Maybe after few times I will stop showing every month. Anyway, when I know I get to ride with my show cloths just makes me excited.


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## Faithinhorses (Jan 8, 2018)

jgnmoose said:


> I didn't read all the replies because I am short on time tonight, but I'm sure you got a lot of great ones.
> 
> If I had to teach someone to ride a little better, I'd say shorten your stirrups a notch and really focus on being fluid from your ribs to your mid-thigh.
> 
> Your middle section is where you ride a horse. Almost all of your weight should be right on your butt (seat). The best riders sit straight up no matter what the horse is doing. They do this because they have really good control of their midsection (core) and are balancing their entire body off it and as a result have a great seat. Doesn't matter if it is Bullriding or trail riding, the great ones all do this.


Along these same lines while learning to ride sitting trot and canter (I am in a similar boat as you being an adult learner of a bit over a year), have you considered using a stability/balance ball at home to work on core exercises? In addition to strengthening your core with it you can also mimic things like sitting trot, posting trot, canter seat using the ball as the "horse" safely. Gets you used to softening your lower back and loosening your hips. Also, when on the horse, really feeling the left and right sides of the horse with your seat bones in the sitting trot helps me. We need to be able to absorb the shock of the horse's movement within our lower back, hips, knees, ankles to some degree in all the gaits.


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## ongket31 (Apr 25, 2017)

Didn't get my horse to canter very well today though, only managed to get him canter once just before the class ends. The other rider which is taking lesson with me fell off her horse while cantering, seems like her horse stops suddenly and throw her off because she tipped forward and falls off, after that her horse just gallop around the arena. Is it normal for horses trained for riding will throw rider off like this? Salaam bucked once when I'm warming up during the competition at the grass paddock, it's because of bad footing but Salaam didn't behave that way even through Salaam was considered to be a horse that's very unpredictable.


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## Faithinhorses (Jan 8, 2018)

ongket31 said:


> The other rider which is taking lesson with me fell off her horse while cantering, seems like her horse stops suddenly and throw her off because she tipped forward and falls off, after that her horse just gallop around the arena. Is it normal for horses trained for riding will throw rider off like this? Salaam bucked once when I'm warming up during the competition at the grass paddock, it's because of bad footing but Salaam didn't behave that way even through Salaam was considered to be a horse that's very unpredictable.


No, lesson horses should be well broke and tolerant of riders learning to ride all the gaits properly. Depending on the size of the barn/riding school, as riders improve their skills, seat, leg, etc they may be placed on more intermediate or slightly more intolerant horses. I think most people learning to canter have tipping and balance issues.


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

ongket31 said:


> Didn't get my horse to canter very well today though, only managed to get him canter once just before the class ends. The other rider which is taking lesson with me fell off her horse while cantering, seems like her horse stops suddenly and throw her off because she tipped forward and falls off, after that her horse just gallop around the arena. Is it normal for horses trained for riding will throw rider off like this? Salaam bucked once when I'm warming up during the competition at the grass paddock, it's because of bad footing but Salaam didn't behave that way even through Salaam was considered to be a horse that's very unpredictable.


Riding experiences can vary greatly. Part of this can be attributed to the different horses available for use in schooling at particular stables. The facilities themselves can also be a factor. Varied experiences can also be attributed to individual riders, individual instructors, and the understanding and interaction between them. Finally, accidents sometimes just happen.

The rider mentioned may have fallen off because of the suddenness of the stop. This may also have been influenced by how the horse stopped. It is much harder for a rider to maintain balance if a horse stops on the forehand. The rider’s alertness, tenseness, and ability to re-balance quickly are additional considerations.


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## ongket31 (Apr 25, 2017)

If I canter and the horse is going faster and faster but pulling the rein doesn't slow him down, any other ways to slow him down? Just fell off the horse when Salaam suddenly speeds up and I can't slow him down, can't rebalance myself. Salaam starts to trot when walking around the arena, I thought he was ready canter but once Salaam starts to canter he suddenly speeds up. Usually Salaam will wait for my cues and very controllable, but it's not that he's mad at me though.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Don't be too proud to grab onto the mane, or the saddle, if you start to lose your balance. 

Otherwise, really, you just have to ride a lot more to develop a better ability to stay on when the horse makes sudden changes. Also, realize that EVERYONE falls off, at some time or another, and more than once, usually.
this is normal.


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## ongket31 (Apr 25, 2017)

tinyliny said:


> Don't be too proud to grab onto the mane, or the saddle, if you start to lose your balance.
> 
> Otherwise, really, you just have to ride a lot more to develop a better ability to stay on when the horse makes sudden changes. Also, realize that EVERYONE falls off, at some time or another, and more than once, usually.
> this is normal.


Didn't think of that at that time though, but how do I slow him down if pulling the rein doesn't work?


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

ongket31 said:


> If I canter and the horse is going faster and faster but pulling the rein doesn't slow him down, any other ways to slow him down? Just fell off the horse when Salaam suddenly speeds up and I can't slow him down, can't rebalance myself. Salaam starts to trot when walking around the arena, I thought he was ready canter but once Salaam starts to canter he suddenly speeds up. Usually Salaam will wait for my cues and very controllable, but it's not that he's mad at me though.


Practice helps us improve our riding as long as we are striving to improve knowledgeably as we practice. 

The first thing to remember when a horse is going to fast is that simply pulling on the reins may not cause the horse to slow down. Some horses will actually increase their speed – depending on various factors – in such situations. They may actually lean on the bit and let you help support them as they rush forward.

If you want to slow a horse that is going too fast in the canter, you should apply the reins in a smooth “take-and-give” manner. When a horse canters, it moves its head, stretching it forward and drawing it backwards. The “take” should be applied as the horse’s head is drawn backward and the “give” as its head extends. The “take” says, “Slow down,” while the “give” says, “I’m not going to support you if you try to rush forward.” If possible, a tucking of the rider’s hips can be applied at the same time as the “take”. This helps the rider re-balance and should help encourage the horse to re-balance, drawing its center of gravity more towards the rear which helps relieve the urge to rush forward. Calmly saying, "Easy, easy," may also help.

While proper application of the rider’s legs can help in encouraging the horse to re-balance, it is normally best for most riders – especially beginning riders – to try to release leg pressure. Many riders tighten the grip of their legs, trying to hold on as the horse rushes off. The horse is very likely to interpret this as a sign to go faster. Remember, gravity will help you stay on the horse as long as you stay flexible so you can move with the horse’s movements in order to remain balanced.

I know this is all easier said than done, but it won’t work if you don’t try.

If you can’t do this or if it doesn’t seem to be working, you can try to slow the horse by circling. Start with a large circle and make it smaller according to what you are comfortable with doing.


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## ongket31 (Apr 25, 2017)

I noticed Salaam will go to trot without me doing anything, once he start to trot it's faster than usual, is this a warning to rider not to ask for canter or any fast gait? I might switch to another horse for beginner riders though but the next horse show is around the corner.


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

ongket31 said:


> I noticed Salaam will go to trot without me doing anything, once he start to trot it's faster than usual, is this a warning to rider not to ask for canter or any fast gait? I might switch to another horse for beginner riders though but the next horse show is around the corner.


Please clarify what is happening. Is Salaan going to a trot without you asking him to do so? 

Is he going to a trot from a walk or from a canter?


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## ongket31 (Apr 25, 2017)

TXhorseman said:


> Please clarify what is happening. Is Salaan going to a trot without you asking him to do so?
> 
> Is he going to a trot from a walk or from a canter?


yes, Salaam goes to trot from a walk without me asking for it.


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

ongket31 said:


> yes, Salaam goes to trot from a walk without me asking for it.


Thank you for the clarification. 

While it is possible for a horse to do this for other reasons, I have found that it is usually either the result of general nervousness and uncertainty or as a reaction to more specific actions on the part of the rider. The rider may not be aware of what he is doing that may be causing the horse to react this way.

I once had an athletic young man as a student who, in his nervousness, tended to clamp unto a horse’s sides with his legs. Most horses he tried responded by trotting off quickly. With Stormy, he tried pulling on the reins to stop him. A confused Stormy reacted by running off to the coral for herd support. Luckily, I was able to grab the reins before Stormy took off again, because the man still hadn’t released the grip of his legs and reins even though Stormy had stopped. The man was better able to control Penney when she reacted in a similar fashion. When I tried to get the man to relax, he said, “That’s OK, I can handle her.” I told him: “You’re making her react this way. Relax. Little children ride Penney and don’t have this type of reaction from her.”

I relate this to illustrate how, as riders, we might not always be aware of our actions which cause a horse to react in a certain way. I once had the tendency to lean forward when I rode. Tebo, a small Arabian, tended to go into a canter from a trot as a result. It took someone to point this out to me before I began to change my riding posture. At first, I even felt I was leaning backward when I sat upright. 

A knowledgeable and observant instructor should be able to help you become more aware of what you may be doing. Also, try to observe others when they ride Salaam. See what the horse does, and try to determine what the rider did that may have caused the horse to react the way he did.

Your riding should improve as you become more aware of different reasons why a horse may react in the way it does. There is seldom only once cause that may bring about one effect.


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## stephenkratzer (Dec 1, 2017)

ongket31 said:


> Didn't think of that at that time though, but how do I slow him down if pulling the rein doesn't work?


When this happens, are you tensing up and holding on with your legs? If so, your legs might be telling him to go despite your hands trying to tell him to slow (in which case it he might just think you're asking him to speed up and collect). Also, not sure what voice aids he's familiar with, but if it gets out of control, an "eeeeassy" might not be out of line?


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## stephenkratzer (Dec 1, 2017)

I was having similar issues with cantering and "got it" today, not perfectly but much better than previously. I think what made the difference was that I started the lesson out with bareback walking and trotting. Bareback really puts you in tune with the movement of the horse and the movement and stiffness/loosness of your hips. It also makes it easy to be conscious of your seat bones. If you're tight bareback, you really feel it, as you're more apt to slide off.

Then, for cantering in the saddle, I tightened my core, disconnected upper from lower to some extent, relaxed my shoulders, and then just stayed with the motion of the horse so that I could maintain the same seat bone contact and loose/mobile hips as I had when bareback. Hard to explain, but it just kind of worked. It also helped that the OTTB gave me a smoother, slower canter today so that I didn't have to worry about speed as much.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

TXhorseman said:


> If you are riding with the reins in two hands with your thumbs at the top while the reins pass from the horse’s mouth over the top of your hand and out the bottom, you can try the following. If you are attempting a leg-yield to the left,* rotate your right hand so the fingernails are facing u*p.


I would get shot at dawn if my trainer saw me rotating hands.......NO NO.....


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

Golden Horse said:


> I would get shot at dawn if my trainer saw me rotating hands.......NO NO.....


While some may teach that a rider's hands should never be rotated, such teaching is not universal. 

James Fillis, in his book “Breaking and Riding” (first published in 1902 as an English translation of the 1890 edition of “Principes de Dressage et d’Equitation”) states: “There are three orthodox ways for holding the reins, namely, the English, German, and French.” He goes on to say that he thinks the French way is the best.

Fillis then illustrates how – while holding two sets of reins in one hand (one set attached to a snaffle bit and one to a curb) – the rider can cause different actions by either rotating the wrist (knuckles lowered or knuckles raised) or by flexing the wrist (little finger towards the body or thumb towards the body).

While Fillis is describing how the various actions of one hand can effect the action of two sets of reins, my description simply states how, when one set of reins is shared with two hands, the rotating of one hand can influence the action of the bit.

Since I don’t show, I don’t know if such use of the hands would be allowed in any particular event. Also, the result which I seek could probably be achieved in other ways. For example, a rider might flex the fingers of one hand while leaving the fingers of the other in the neutral position or even relaxing them. The important thing is the effect the rider’s action has on the horse.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I'm not sure how much rotating the hands, so that knuckles go up , will affect the rein of a single rein setup. I am guessing it might put a very slightly stronger feel on the rein. It might encourage the rider to advance her hand forward a bit, or? 

I'm always for what works, not necessarily for what the rule book says.

In any case, @ongket31 , it sounds like you are a beginner rider, and, taking lessons not in N. America, Australia or UK, no? I am making a guess that English is not your first language? I apologize if I am wrong.

I ask because riding schools are different in their approaches in different parts of the world. And, without knowing from where you come, people might make assumptions that your school is like their's.

I have to say, giving you a frank opinion, that you really need more time at walk and trot, and on the lungeline, to strengthen your seat and balance. A lot of the issues you are experiencing will be more handleable when you are more secure in your seat. Then you will be ABLE to apply leg and rein aids without losing your balance.

As to upcoming shows;
You should train ABOVE your ability, and show BELOW your ability, that's how I think it should be approached. I would show in walk/trot classes only.


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

I've read about suggestions to turn the wrist up, I think in a dressage principles book. Iirc, it was introduced as a troubleshooting method to have an opening rein and encourage the bend, but without the rider pulling back with the inside hand. 

I know my trainer would flay me of I did that, but it's also not something we need trouble shooting help with.


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

As one's study of horsemanship broadens, he may encounter various methods and views to which he had not been exposed previously. I read one book that listed 10 different rein effects. Noted Portuguese rider Nuno Oliviera spoke of at least ten different kinds of trot. Is it necessary to know and attempt to use all this information? No, but the more tools one is familiar with, the more tools he has available when needed.

If a rider is not limited by the rules of a certain discipline, he is free to experiment to see with what “language” he is best able to communicate with an individual horse. 

The goal should always be to achieve desired results with the least effort while keeping the horse tension free and willingly working with the rider.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

If I held the reins as I normally do but my wrists up, my elbows would lock. But you can switch your hand position on the reins and hold them like driving reins. See the pictures in the linked article. 

No. 56: Holding the Reins Like Driving Lines | The Murdoch Method


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