# Problem Horse ... Inexperienced Owners



## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

You need to sit down and have a serious talk with them and explain how this horse is not a good match and should be sold. Be honest and say that you value them as friends but that the situation has become dire and that something will need to be done soon. Honesty is always the best route


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Ditto what Carshon says. In addition, you need to realize your own liability. If that horse gets out and on the road and causes an accident, you could be held liable for the inability to keep him in. Really, you need to sit down with the owner, the lessee's have no legal say, and tell her she has until XX date (soon) to get him off your property. Her lack of finances are not your problem and at this point paying for daycare is probably cheaper than all the repairs and modifications you have been and continue to do.


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## rmissildine (Feb 1, 2019)

I agree with what carshon and Dreamcatcher said. Have an honest sit down with the owner and the lessee. While the lessee has no legal say, they need to know what's going on. 

You can't spend all your time and effort repairing fences, bars, barn doors, etc. and not expect to recoup some of your expenses, especially since it's not your horses causing the damage. 

I don't know about Tennessee, but I do know, as Dreamcatcher stated, that here in Alabama, if your horse gets out and causes any type of damage to others property, we are liable. And I'm not just talking about auto accidents, but any damage.
So, have an honest talk with everyone involved, and get rid of that horse that no one rides before something does happen...


Good luck..


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I agree with everyone else. You need to sit down with the owner, and the lessees if possible (even though they can't do much).

It's unfair that you have to repair all of those fences and doors, etc., and they never even come out to ride him or do anything with him...it's not doing him any good, and not doing you any good either as the barn owner.

As the others said, you would probably be liable for any damage the horse has caused. 

Their finances aren't your problem. You have to set aside the friendship right now and think about what is best, more importantly. They either need to get help from a professional/trainer (which is their problem, not yours, it sounds like they have just given up honestly), and that horse needs to get off of your property. Causing way too much havoc and it's not fair to you, or your horses, since it interferes with YOUR rides! 

Put everything in writing as well. Just be honest.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Yes, I realize it sucks, but you are going to have to pull up your breeches and ask them to come in for a discussion. Tell them you really value them as friends, and would really like to keep that relationship positive, but you just can't keep the horse anymore. You come off as wanting to maintain a good relationship here, and that will come through in your conversation. 

Don't let them convince you things will get better - they won't. Tell them you just can't keep the horse for safety reasons. That you really wish you could, but it's not possible.


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## Boo Walker (Jul 25, 2012)

If you can't do it, let hubby go for it. Who legally still owns the horse? If it's not the girl and mother then they have no say. I would contact the owner, tell him things have gone south, the horse has 30 days to find a new place to live. Follow up with the same short statement in writing by mail return receipt requested. Then a courtesy call to mom and daughter, the horse has 30 days to move (maybe they can put some pressure on the owner to get busy). There's no compromise, no promises to do better, it's a done deal - period.
In a months time, you'll have some peace and quiet and your sanity back.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

AND BTW, in the eyes of the law should you ever end up in court over something due to boarding, the day you took payment (even 1 red cent) for boarding someone else's horse you became a "Professional Boarder" or Barn Owner. Thus all the liability for neglect and negligence, is now squarely on you as the BO.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

What is wrong with the owner taking her problem horse elsewhere and the teen continues to ride your horse as she used to do. She might be quite relieved to ride a horse that she is not afraid of and you still have your friendship and babysitter intact.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

my guess is that THEY want to be rid of the horse, too, but they want a convenient scapegoat to blame for that action. 



Tell them they can pay proper boarding costs (400?) or take him elsewhere, or gift him to you to sell.


what a predicament!


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## KBA6 (Aug 24, 2013)

Man, thank you all so much for the advice and support. Especially pointing out the liability we have over this horse's damages to the neighbor's yard - they tore up the grass terribly in that rainstorm. Thank god for wonderful neighbors who took pity on me running around desperately, soaked to the bone. (Very kind people who brought me soup afterward.)

I did leave out that the mother and I did have a couple of conversation about him leaving. It didn't get anywhere until conversation #3 when I told them he had to leave, no more waiting for things to change (that was the rain storm breakdown). So we are actually on conversation number 4. 

I found them another farm that has board fences and a round pen down the street for only $150/pasture. I sent them a couple other leads as well. What I realized last night when talking to them, was just how much they don't know about worming/vac/vet/farrier and were scared to leave because I was the one who took care of all that. (I just included their horses when I made appointments for my own.) So it's not that they gave up, their just so very unknowledgeable of horse care and didn't know where to start. 

I offered to still help with all of it, but they just asked if we could get a round pen, "would that make it easier?" That evaporated every bit of graciousness inside me. "Nope, it won't. Because you can't buy a round pen and neither can I."

So I pulled in the previous owner in and told her she has to step up and help. I got a message this morning they are visiting another farm today. Which is great because of course, he was out again this morning. 

-proud momma side note-
My daughter (8) saw how frustrated I was about having to chase this horse down again, and said "just let me try." He let her walk right up to him, grab his mane and lead him quietly into the stall. She did it in 3 minutes when it takes me 30!


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## KBA6 (Aug 24, 2013)

_AND BTW, in the eyes of the law should you ever end up in court over something due to boarding, the day you took payment (even 1 red cent) for boarding someone else's horse you became a "Professional Boarder" or Barn Owner. Thus all the liability for neglect and negligence, is now squarely on you as the BO._

You're right ... I just figured because the IRS thinks this is a hobby, that I wasn't legally liable as a business owner ... NOPE.


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## KBA6 (Aug 24, 2013)

LoriF said:


> What is wrong with the owner taking her problem horse elsewhere and the teen continues to ride your horse as she used to do. She might be quite relieved to ride a horse that she is not afraid of and you still have your friendship and babysitter intact.


I offered this a while ago when she started walking him home. At the time they wanted to see if it would get better ... I'm hoping it goes back to this because my horses were in great shape when she would ride, plus me and my daughter.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I have not read any of the responses so excuse me if it is redundent and been written already.

First off...someone is paying you board money.
So, you don't have grounds for taking over ownership for missed board.
Next, the 15 year old's mother don't own the horse legally do they? 

My reading of this is his owner is "leasing" the horse out for cost of board but still retains ownership...
So, a 15 year old is a kid, maybe pretty mature but still a kid. Legally in many states minors can't own a horse.
You need to speak with a parent about the issues at hand and how part of the bargain is now not fulfilled.
If the horse is a nuisance...tell them and why he is. 
Tell them that because of the damages he is doing and the dangers he is now presenting to you with his manners he has "*??*" days and must be moved somewhere else.
Tell this to the horses owner, as only the owner has the right to move the horse to a new destination barn for care...not a leaser.
You must place your displeasure with the situation at the feet of where it belongs...horse owner gets told to move the horse.
Leaser gets to know the horse is leaving because of the bad behaviors that make him now dangerous for you to handle and her to ride consistently as you have been noticing. 
Leaser is welcome to come and ride with you on your horses as was always the case before.

Don't confuse who is told what...
If leaser is now owner then only need to have one conversation with the responsible parent not the child.
If you deal with a absent owner and another who leases...deal with each in a appropriate manner.
What you see now in behaviors will escalate further with no intervention...that intervention is not yours to do either as you don't own the horse.
It is your job though to make sure the horse is safely behind barriers, not a nuisance nor danger to any who go to your barn/facility or on your property...
As the property owner, boarding barn owner _it is you_ responsible for the care, confinement and fixing of any broken fence, gates, barn doors, etc the horse has done including stall cleaning daily.
As the horse is on your property...I would not want to see a minor get hurt by said horse on your property and need to stand in front of a courtroom...could be messy and very costly to you.
_Just my thoughts..._
_Now off to read the comments prior to mine.._
:runninghorse2:...


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

KBA6 said:


> _AND BTW, in the eyes of the law should you ever end up in court over something due to boarding, the day you took payment (even 1 red cent) for boarding someone else's horse you became a "Professional Boarder" or Barn Owner. Thus all the liability for neglect and negligence, is now squarely on you as the BO._
> 
> You're right ... I just figured because the IRS thinks this is a hobby, that I wasn't legally liable as a business owner ... NOPE.


Just to make this all a little clearer. You're partially right, it's a hobby until you start to make money off of it. Doesn't matter if you actually profit, you're taking money for board and in the eyes of the law that makes you a professional and in business, even if the IRS might fight you on it. The other thing is, if you were to want to show in many breed associations and riding governing bodies, you would then be considered a professional and wouldn't be allowed to show amateur anymore, which is a distinct disadvantage for most people.


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## Dez4455 (Mar 14, 2019)

Just wondering... Do you have a round pen and do you have any time to work him on your own? If you have a round pen then you could put him in the round pen when you go riding with your horse and put him in the stall when you work your horse. I know this is a lot of work for you on your part but I think it'd be worth a try, but if it doesn't work then I agree with everybody else. I honestly think you need to bill the owners for all of the damage this horse does.


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## KBA6 (Aug 24, 2013)

Dez4455 said:


> Just wondering... Do you have a round pen and do you have any time to work him on your own? If you have a round pen then you could put him in the round pen when you go riding with your horse and put him in the stall when you work your horse. I know this is a lot of work for you on your part but I think it'd be worth a try, but if it doesn't work then I agree with everybody else. I honestly think you need to bill the owners for all of the damage this horse does.


I do not have a round pen. IF I did it would make a lot of difference. The 15yo would be able to ride him more easily and my daughter could even lunge him. (He's a 5yo Mustang cross, btw). I could work with him, but I don't have time honestly. Keeping my two in shape is about as much as I have time for.

Good news is they found another farm for him to go to ... with barb wire fencing - that worries me :frown_color:. They are going to try to move him in less than two weeks. Just gotta get through these two weeks!


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## KBA6 (Aug 24, 2013)

Also, the mother has legal ownership of him now. I think that was unclear. The previous owner just has a sentimental attachment to him and still rides him if/when she comes out. Her involvement is just as a friend helping a friend. The mother is my friend and the only person I've been speaking to about him... l


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## Dez4455 (Mar 14, 2019)

Good news is they found another farm for him to go to ... with barb wire fencing - that worries me :frown_color:. They are going to try to move him in less than two weeks. Just gotta get through these two weeks![/QUOTE]

Ooohhh... I HATE putting horses with barb wire fencing... it just gives me a bad vibe! I completely understand about the work and time thing. Time is hard to come by with more than 2 horses and work! I hope everything works out for you, them, the horse, and the new barn!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

KBA6 said:


> Good news is they found another farm for him to go to ... with barb wire fencing - that worries me :frown_color:.


The good news is, it's not going to be your problem. And 'try in 2 weeks'? Yeah, no, they'd be gone in 2 days if it was my place. They've taken enough advantage of you.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

KBA6 said:


> So I agreed they could keep him at my place for only $100 a month as long as they came out every weekend and the girl cleaned stalls after she rode.
> They are avoiding me now ...



Good that you finally put your foot down. They were not "avoiding" you. They were taking advantage of you. Friends don't dump their animals on other friends. 



First of all, they stopped holding up their end of the boarding agreement. Daughter was supposed to clean stalls. They haven't been doing that.





KBA6 said:


> (They send checks via mail, so I'm still getting paid.)



Yeah, but look at all the time, STRESS, and repairs you have put into it. Again, it was just another reason for you to stick to your guns. THere's no reason they couldn't have at least hand-delivered the check so that the daughter could clean stalls as she said she would.





KBA6 said:


> My husband is ready to call them himself and make demands ... he doesn't ride or care much about horses anyway, so he's been OVER this situation for a while now.



And coming from an un-emotional background, he has probably been right for a while. You've just let your heart get in the way.


You're not being a bad friend or a bad person. This horse has issues and is destroying your place and creating huge amounts of stress for you. There is no need for that. Horse should have been gone months ago.


Stick to your guns.


It unfortunate and the horse will probably injure himself at the new barbed wire place, but if you want to keep stressing yourself out, be my guest. Sounds harsh, but let the horse go and don't think about it. It's not your problem anymore. You said it yourself that you don't have the time.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I'm glad they are going to another place. Not your concern at all...just be happy they will be out of your way. 
It'd be nice if they were out in a few days, rather than two weeks...hopefully they move sooner. This way, you can get back to normal life & focusing on YOUR horse and riding.


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## KBA6 (Aug 24, 2013)

I have told them he has to be gone by next week. But I don't see it happening. 

I am taking my daughter for a trail ride/camp trip this weekend for her birthday. This horse will HAVE to be stalled the entire weekend, and it has been the plan all along that they would come out and tend to him while we are gone. Now they say they can't .... I'm also getting excuses why he won't be able to leave next week (no where to go, money, etc.)

Yesterday he tore down my stall partition and escaped the stall, ran through a handle gate and pulled the solar fencer off the post ... effectively killed my fence until I can get a new one .... Needlessly to say, I don't give a **** about friendship anymore. 

When I told the owner, she just replied with a laundry list of her own woes. So I called her and said he has to be gone. She sighed and literally said "Well, tell me where?"

So ... I'm switching gears. At what point can I legally call animal control or a horse shelter for an abandoned animal?


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

OK, it seems like now they are just taking advantage. You really need to give them an ultimatum. 
Do you have all of this in writing (when he needs to be out by)?

That is just ridiculous. Enough is enough.


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## KBA6 (Aug 24, 2013)

The only ultimatum I can think of is telling them I'm calling animal control... I don't know what else I can do.

I have text messages telling them about the damage and when he has to be gone. That's it. 
This whole entire situation is completely amateur.


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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

These may sound flippant and that’s not my intent but I’ve been thinking if this was me how would I handle it.

1. Deliver horse to their house and leave it in yard.
2. A) Turn horse loose off property. B) Next time horse breaks out don’t look for it.
3. Take owners to small claims court for repair cost recovery.
4. Hire lawyer and initiate legal action as it relates to the appropriate law(s) in your area that would see the horse off your property.

Of the options listed above, I would recommend 3 and 4. Unfortunately for you these options require effort, time and no doubt dollars to make happen but shows you as the responsible, mature individual in this case and, apparently, someone needs to be.

Good luck.

P.S. I am curious as to why he is behaving as he does since you indicated he did not always act that way.


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## KBA6 (Aug 24, 2013)

Chevaux said:


> P.S. I am curious as to why he is behaving as he does since you indicated he did not always act that way.


My guess is he's bored. He's a very smart horse, very energetic and curious. If a tote is around, he will dump it and carry each item around for a while. He once stole my jacket off the stall door and carried it around the pasture like a game. He would literally wait for me to get a couple feet away, then run off, stop, and look at me with my jacket hanging out of his mouth. (It was actually very cute.) 

He also has separation anxiety, so when I stall him, he's constantly crying for the other horses. I have a camera in the barn and I've watched him in the stall. He just paces constantly. (I neer grain him, he's on pasture and hay only)

He gets out because the pastures are pretty bare and he wants to graze in my yard or the neighbor's yard. The other horses are happy where they are ...

Oddly enough, you get a halter on this guy and he calms down completely.


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

I can't add anything to the advice given for this situation, BUT if you ever take on a boarder again, you need to write everything up and have it signed and dated by all. Having a written agreement protects you legally in the event of a person doing just what these people are doing, it gives you options. Once, my BO had to ask a person to take their horse away because of similar issues and it was written into the contract. Owner was given so much time to remove horse and if had not been removed (which was considered abandoning the horse), ownership would revert to BO. Signed documents. BO has dealt with boarders for many years and she has probably seen everything.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

I would at least call animal control and talk to them. Tell them the situation, that he has essentially been abandoned on your property, and ask if they can come pick him up. Worst case scenario, they'll say no and you will know that that's not an option.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I 2nd calling ACO. Even if they can't come get him right now, they can tell you what steps you need to take to establish his abandonment (hint, as long as they're paying board I don't think he'll be considered abandoned). Not sure you should not look for him the next time he gets out, as the paid barn owner, I suspect there's some liability attached if he causes an accident or destroys someone else's property. If you can get them to sign him over to you, then you could either take him to a sale, relinquish him to ACO, have the vet come out and put him down, or try to privately sell him.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

I think you should put it in writing that if the horse is not gone by date X, you will call animal control and have him removed. Get it notorized if you really want to be sure, but even just a formal letter is enough. Scan it and email/text it, send the original by mail to them. Consider it their last formal warning. Then follow through. Alternatively, you could write up a bill for damages, and tell them that if they do not come get the horse by date X and pay for damages, you will sell the horse to cover damages. 

This is a horrible situation, and these people are irresponsible fools who don't deserve any kind of animal.


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## GrittyGrulla (Feb 11, 2019)

I agree with everyone as well. Problem horses need to be dealt with and people need to understand that. Have a serious, rational sit down with everyone involved to discuss what needs to happen with him. The liability issue is very real. The expenses of fixing things are very real. Sometimes you have to have these talks with friends and maybe you all will come out closer because of it. Its also not fair to the horse to be somwhere he doesn't fit or belong. Who knows? Maybe by selling him you will be doing him a favor and finding him the perfect home with people who will work with him on his problems. 

Stay positive.  I hope everything works out for you and your friends.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

I am coming out of left field here - but you said at one time he was a nice riding horse. Is it possible that a lesson barn near you would take him? I mean as far as for retraining for lessons? Or a girl scout camp or something like that? At least he would have a purpose. Long shot I know but worth a shot. and I mean for you to tell the owners to do this - I understand it is not your responsibility


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Chevaux said:


> 2. A) Turn horse loose off property. B) Next time horse breaks out don’t look for it.



Just want to say, neither of these are a good idea. 



Say that horse wanders out to highway, gets hit by a car, and KILLS the driver of the car. If it comes back that the OP was the negligent one for not controlling an animal that was in her care (or intentionally let him out) she's now in hot water. Doesn't matter if the horse wasn't hers - she can likely be held responsible.


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## KBA6 (Aug 24, 2013)

I'm happy to report this horse is no longer on my property!! 😊 I feel 50 pounds lighter. 

I had to trailer him to his new home and as a parting gift, he freaked out in the trailer and busted my loading light. A small plastic light in the back that you just flick on and off if your loading at night ... We'll, he's fine, the ***, but I have to replace the light. Not a big deal, but seemed about right for this dumb horse. Owners are paying me for that plus more, and the girl said she would give me a few free babysitting nights. So overall, they are happy, I'm happy and the horse can just **** off because I don't care if he is happy or not. 

This afternoon I just sat out side and watched my two wonderfully calm horse graze peacefully. 

Happy ending for sure. Thanks for the suggestions and support everyone.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Glad the horse is off your property. Just remember, don’t get too close to these people again. They definitely took advantage. But now you have your life back. Happy to hear the good news.  



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Good job!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

That's great news! So glad it's over for you. And that they feel some responsibility/guilt about it.


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