# In need of advice... girl thinks our horse belongs to her!



## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I would hold tight at the $10,000. If she can pony up $10,000 for the horse, sell it. But I can't see that happening so I doubt you have to worry about it. 

Yeah, she sounds like a pest. Hopefully she will go away.


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## darkpony (Nov 20, 2013)

LOL. I know $10,000 is a lot for this mare. I am a little afraid that is what they will do. I just hate to see that happen. she doesnt have the best track record with horses. All of them go lame or get thin, and then she sells them. I cant imagine what shape this mare would be in if there was no one there to regulate it. She is on of those "in it to win it" types.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

How much did the father buy the horse for? 

Even though you don't approve of her methods, this girl HAS put the miles on the horse and HAS trained her, showed her etc etc. She may ride her hard, and do things that are very...questionable... but she has made what would have been a pasture pet in to a riding horse.

$10,000 seems like a heck of a lot for a horse that was going to be an 'extra' and as above, if she's worth that money, then its from the ridden work.

I don't see what the fuss is. She obviously rides and works the horse, put in time to train it... so why don't you just sell her the horse?!


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## darkpony (Nov 20, 2013)

I see your point, and I am not saying she did a horrible job on this horse. However, She was paid to train a *trail horse*. She then proceded to road founder her (hence the shoes), and use her to her advantage to make money barrel racing, when she was meant to be a trail horse that anyone could ride. Had they not paid her to ride this horse, she would not have been a pasture pet. I actually put the first 5 or 6 rides on the girl, and would have continued her training if neccesary. 

Also if this girl has her way with the horse it *WILL *be a 8 year old pasture pet, because she wont be sound enough for anything else. 

I never said she was worth 10,000 to any sane person. I sure as hell wouldnt pay that for her, it was a price set to deter a 18 year old girl from using a horse that was not hers. I guess like trailhorserider said if she has the money, they should take it. But I am having a hard time putting a price of 10,000 on this horses life. I know you could not pay me a million dollars to give any of my horses to her.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

If that girl can magically pull out 10k id say go for it. I feel sorry for the horse but if small town politics are involved there is not much you can do.


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## darkpony (Nov 20, 2013)

ya.. They live in a town of about 600 people.... shes got everyone believing that the horse is "not being used to her full potential" I am sure people are talking. (not that I really care) I think she may have inherited some money from a family member. And being 18.. what more logical way could you think of to spend 10 grand? 
The bad part is the horse will still be in the town of 600 people. So its not like they can take the money and not know what the girl is doing to her.. and when everything goes south and the horse is ruined then everyone will say they are terrible people for taking the money over the horses well being. lose lose.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

Well they can say no that they love her and could never part with her. And someone needs to put their ft down.


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## darkpony (Nov 20, 2013)

I think it may have to be my boyfriend. The mare is registered in his name anyways... He feels the same way I do.


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## darkpony (Nov 20, 2013)

I said they should just tell her they want to focus on making her a good trail horse for the grandkids, and that they would rather not have her get hot from barrel racing.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

It sounds like you are not interested in selling. If the other family members are also not interested in selling, particularly the boyfriend who technically owns the horse as its is in his name. Than its no sale. Small town politics aside, you can't buy what is not for sale.


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## jmike (Aug 21, 2013)

Who does the horse belong to?


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

darkpony said:


> I think it may have to be my boyfriend. The mare is registered in his name anyways... He feels the same way I do.


Then it's time for him to deal with the problem.


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## towboater (Aug 19, 2013)

If the horse was priced to her, then she should be allowed to buy it. I would never go back on my word.


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## KatieMae (Mar 7, 2013)

I think the biggest issue is going to be getting dad on board to square up and shut his mouth whenever this girl comes crying. Mom put her foot down about the shoes, so she goes to dad. 

Dad needs to be on the same page and if he isn't strong enough to tell this girl where the bear crapped in the buckwheat, dad probably shouldn't be allowed to make decisions.


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

That horse needs to be sold. In the family, outside of the family, whatever. If this really is your boyfriend's horse, he needs to get this horse's paperwork/bill of sale in hand, even if he has to give his dad $5 for her. The family needs to do what is right for the horse, not what is necessary for the feelings of a spoiled kid. 

And so what if she stirs up stuff. DON'T respond to it. Ignore it. She can say all she wants. Life will go on. People aren't that stupid. They aren't going to think you are terrible people for it. Even if they do, it is not the end of the world.

Even in a town of six people, what one person does with their horse, even if it is just tossing him out in the field and never "living up to his potential" is at the discretion of the OWNER not the trainer. Even those million dollar owners who have their horses with million dollar trainers have that say. If they decide to scratch their horse a week away from the World Championships for no reason, they have every right to do so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Have you reminded the bf's father that the horse will be valueless if this girl cripples her? No one buys lame horses and the girl most certainly won't want her then. I doubt the gal has the money. I suspect her intent is to offer empty promises of payment to get the horse off property and then a legal battle will ensue when trying to get the horse back.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

I'm going to come at this from a slightly different angle. Stop playing games with this young lady, tell your BF to find his cojones, and tell her flat out the horse isn't for sale. All of you keep dangling the carrot, then yip and snarl when she actually reaches for it. Talk about mixed signals! 

If the horse really is registered in your BF's name, then everyone else needs to let HIM handle the issue. No more lying to her and throwing out a ridiculous price, as that's just encouraging her.


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## HorseMom1025 (Jul 17, 2012)

I have to agree with Speed Racer on this one. That girl probably has no idea she's done anything wrong.

She was asked to help train a horse.
She is a barrel runner, saw some potential, and started training the horse to run barrels.
The owner (from her perception) was fine with it, said nothing.
She asks to haul the horse to races, the owner says ok.
She is having good success with the horse, asks to buy the horse, owner names a price. (The horse is for sale for the right price).

Regardless of how you view it, I don't see any way this girl has done wrong. 

No one has stepped up and said, No. Stop. Do not train this horse to run barrels. Do not haul this horse to races. This horse is not for sale.

I would suggest everyone get on the same page and quit stringing the girl along.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Atomicodyssey (Apr 13, 2014)

*Yy*

I agree with Speedracer and Horse mom. She probably thinks she's not done anything wrong, and let's face it we've all made questionable judgment calls when we were 16-18. I too do not understand why no one has been up front with her this entire time. In no uncertain terms would anyone guess if I objected to what they were planning to do with my horse.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

The dad dose not won the horse, bf dose, but dad was being manipulated. Bf needs to step in and say "she is my horse and i have final say".


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

Your boyfriend needs to put his foot down with his parents. If the horse does not belong to your BF's father, then he has no right to put a price on her to anyone. If the horse is not for sale, then all you need to say is "I'm sorry, she is not for sale." Trying to "let her down easy" is actually being cruel by giving her the idea that she has a chance at purchasing her. 

Your boyfriend needs to go to this girl and say "Look, so-and-so, I am sorry that my dad got your hopes up about buying this horse, but in reality she is not his to sell because she belongs to me. I am not interested in selling her. I am sorry to disappoint you or that there was confusion, but that is final." 

But it would worry me if my parents gave someone a price on MY PROPERTY. That's a serious boundary issue, especially if he is an adult and the papers are in his name. He needs to tell his parents that they are not to offer a price on anything he owns without talking to him first. If the girl cries and persists, then all his father needs to tell her is that "She belongs to my son, you will have to talk to him about it."


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

I agree with speed racer to a point. Everyone's been giving the girl mixed signals and she might not have any clue who the horse actually belongs to and what's going on. Tell your boyfriend to grow a pair and be blunt with her. I live in a small town as well and people get over the ruckus. No means no. Heck I've told plenty of people they can't buy my horses from me (sometimes in the middle of a transaction when some uh.... information came up about the owners). Bottom line is it's your horse. Is it always okay to cop out in the middle of buying, no. But yet again it's your horse, your business and while the buyer can be disgruntled they just need to accept that it's a no. 

Now as for her taking her to shows and then not returning her as well as her history with horses I would have had a problem with that on a professional level but I wasn't there I don't know the circumstance so I'm not going to comment too much on that. However because she was paid for the training I wouldn't be wary of telling her no because she has been compensated.


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

I wouldn't spend 10k on a horse just to run it into the ground, starve it, and ruin it. I also wouldn't spend 10k on a horse unless I really and truly cared very deeply for it. Either this girl is literally crazy for spending 10k on a throwaway that she doesn't care much about, or you aren't giving her enough credit for how much she cares about that horse.


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

Eolith said:


> I wouldn't spend 10k on a horse just to run it into the ground, starve it, and ruin it. I also wouldn't spend 10k on a horse unless I really and truly cared very deeply for it. Either this girl is literally crazy for spending 10k on a throwaway that she doesn't care much about, or you aren't giving her enough credit for how much she cares about that horse.


The other side of the coin could be that it's not HER money she is spending. It's very easy to spend other people's money :wink:


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I feel like... I'm failing to see what the issue is here. Either sell the horse (the girl /was/ quoted 10k for a horse she had been working with for years. If I were in her shoes, I would assume that meant I could purchase the horse for that price xD), or don't. But BF needs to make a decision xD


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

Zexious said:


> I feel like... I'm failing to see what the issue is here. Either sell the horse (the girl /was/ quoted 10k for a horse she had been working with for years. If I were in her shoes, I would assume that meant I could purchase the horse for that price xD), or don't. But BF needs to make a decision xD



Owner did not set the price. That help?


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

We have some friends that live quite a ways away from us. We only see them once a year at most. Everytime, there is a heated argument the first night between my wife and the guy about her horse. He wants him but she won't sell him for anything. He has offered 5k and she told him a million dollars. Do you think she would sell the horse if he was able to come up with the million? No. Like I said, it happens everytime. 

Now, I do agree that if there was no intention of selling the horse, a price should not have been given.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jmike (Aug 21, 2013)

Mulefeather said:


> Your boyfriend needs to put his foot down with his parents. If the horse does not belong to your BF's father, then he has no right to put a price on her to anyone.


that's a big if ... also, BF could potentially be a minor



Mulefeather said:


> But it would worry me if my parents gave someone a price on MY PROPERTY. That's a serious boundary issue, especially if he is an adult and the papers are in his name.


either way ... sounds like a BF and BF-father issue instead of a GF/BF/BF-father one


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Ditch the boyfriend. End of issue for you.


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## Peanutbutter (Apr 23, 2014)

Ok, was thinking about this when I was mucking out the stables this evening.

How is the communication here? Have you guys communicated how you want her to train that horse? That you do not want her to take the horse to shows, and ride it hard?
Sounds to me like you guys are not properly communicating with this girls at all. Sell that horse for 10000$? You say that get people to go away? Come on! Thats not how it works, you say NO that horse is not for sale. If she dosent respect that, keep repeating it.


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## darkpony (Nov 20, 2013)

Mulefeather said:


> Your boyfriend needs to put his foot down with his parents. If the horse does not belong to your BF's father, then he has no right to put a price on her to anyone. If the horse is not for sale, then all you need to say is "I'm sorry, she is not for sale." Trying to "let her down easy" is actually being cruel by giving her the idea that she has a chance at purchasing her.
> 
> Your boyfriend needs to go to this girl and say "Look, so-and-so, I am sorry that my dad got your hopes up about buying this horse, but in reality she is not his to sell because she belongs to me. I am not interested in selling her. I am sorry to disappoint you or that there was confusion, but that is final."
> 
> But it would worry me if my parents gave someone a price on MY PROPERTY. That's a serious boundary issue, especially if he is an adult and the papers are in his name. He needs to tell his parents that they are not to offer a price on anything he owns without talking to him first. If the girl cries and persists, then all his father needs to tell her is that "She belongs to my son, you will have to talk to him about it."


I think you are spot on. The problem has never been about my boyfriend not having the balls to confront her. He was allowing his dad to make decisions because the horse sort of became his dads when she turned out to be to small. The horse is still on his parents property which is the other reason she has been allowed to use her since we were not around to control the situation on a daily basis.


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## darkpony (Nov 20, 2013)

Eolith said:


> I wouldn't spend 10k on a horse just to run it into the ground, starve it, and ruin it. I also wouldn't spend 10k on a horse unless I really and truly cared very deeply for it. Either this girl is literally crazy for spending 10k on a throwaway that she doesn't care much about, or you aren't giving her enough credit for how much she cares about that horse.


I think she does love the horse, she just hasn't made the correlation between her riding style and all the injured, sickly horses she has owned, then sold. She sees her horses as a tool. She also doesn't have the means to care for one horse. Love alone does not feed a horse, and pay for vet bills, chiropractor or farrier work. ( she has 2 others as it is) 

I appreciate all those that looked at it from her point of view. That is why I come here to you all, because I would never have seen it like that on my own. 

As for ditching the boyfriend... (Lol) we have been together 7 years and own a house together. While that might solve one of my problems, it might create just a few more for me. But thank you! I will keep that in mind. 

Oh and boyfriend is not a minor. So the horse legally is his...


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## jmike (Aug 21, 2013)

darkpony said:


> Oh and boyfriend is not a minor. So the horse legally is his...


awesome -- pretty much the only thing that matters

if he doesn't consent to sale, father cannot sell ... BF just needs to make it clear to father and other girl that the horse belongs to him ... or just be painfully clear to other girl and she will stop pestering BF's father


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## darkpony (Nov 20, 2013)

Peanutbutter said:


> Ok, was thinking about this when I was mucking out the stables this evening.
> 
> How is the communication here? Have you guys communicated how you want her to train that horse? That you do not want her to take the horse to shows, and ride it hard?
> Sounds to me like you guys are not properly communicating with this girls at all. Sell that horse for 10000$? You say that get people to go away? Come on! Thats not how it works, you say NO that horse is not for sale. If she dosent respect that, keep repeating it.


The thing is... She has been told all this. Originally, yes dad said go ahead and use her, but the second time around(after she road foundered her) the rule was use her , but she stays here. Go to a show, but the horse has to come back. 

Most of you are right.. His mom says no, so she appeals to his dad's sensitive side. And says how much she loves the horse. And then the dad is right on board again. My boyfriend should have been involved way sooner.


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

HorseMom1025 said:


> I have to agree with Speed Racer on this one. That girl probably has no idea she's done anything wrong.
> 
> She was asked to help train a horse.
> She is a barrel runner, saw some potential, and started training the horse to run barrels.
> ...


Except the girl seems to be actively manipulating the bf's dad (who is NOT the owner) by crying to him after being told by the bf's mother to stop. So yes, she has been told no, but is going to the "weakest link" so she can get her way.

OP, I wouldn't let this girl around the mare ever again. Not even to visit. And if she already has a bad track record with horses, even if she makes up stories about you I honestly doubt anyone would believe her.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

Say that Bf gave you the mare as a gift. Its his horse, and even though he still owns her he can SAY she is yours, then you have a reason to move her to your place and keep the girl away.


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## HorseMom1025 (Jul 17, 2012)

That's a very good point...the girl is looking for the weakest link and manipulating him. Since we board at a youth show barn, I'm around horse girls aged 7 to 17 all the time. Our coach will lay down the rules all the time, but if even one "adult" says yes, then they honestly believe that "yes" overrides everything else. They will argue with their coach that so and so said they could! So, they had permission and they don't understand why they can't have what they want.

It's immature, but so are the girls. Everyone has to be on the same page and send a consistent message. Have you ever read the book, "If you give a mouse a cookie"? LOL!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Northernstar (Jul 23, 2011)

I just read this whole thread, and it's blowing my mind-I live north of the smallest town outside of Antarctica and I would not hesitate to convey she's not welcome to the horse any longer. I wouldn't give a flying hoot what ppl might say if I were protecting any of my horses. Put a no trespass sign on his barn/stall, and file a restraining order, having a copy delivered to her door via certified mail. No more walking on eggshells, folks! This is way beyond ridiculous. The horse's well-being needs to come first, and this is to ensure that. If the townspeople 'talk', well, as they say in England, "Today's news is tomorrow's chip paper"


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## Doodlesweaver (Dec 12, 2012)

In a way it's kind of a wonderful problem to have: too many people loving one horse versus nobody loving (and wanting) the horse. If the girl has the $10,000 and you want to sell, then sell. If you don't want to sell then don't sell. How old are they supposed to be before they barrel race?


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Truthfully? I think your best bet would be to move the horse off his parent's property. You guys can't be around to monitor what happens there every moment of every day and (sorry to be crude) if BF's dad can't grow a pair and tell the girl NO, then she'll continue to harass him until he gives in......again.

Your BF needs to get in touch with the girl and tell her: "I'm sorry that you were quoted a price by my father, but he doesn't own the horse and has no right to sell her. She is not for sale or lease and you will no longer be able to ride/handle her."


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## darkpony (Nov 20, 2013)

Some people don't even start horses till they are 3 or 4. I think it's ok to lightly start a horse at 2 or 2.5. That means walk, maybe some trot. She was not even three at the start of the season. I don't know how others feel.. But I would say at least 4 before I expect much of anything from them. And when I say barrel racing.. I mean loping circles non stop for 2 or 3 hours to get the horse. "In shape" 

I had a talk with the boyfriend tonight. And he completely agrees. His mom already told her she is no longer for sale. But if she asks again my boyfriend will step in. 

Thanks for all your replies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## darkpony (Nov 20, 2013)

Thanks smrobs! She is being moved in with my horse next weekend actually.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Copperhead (Jun 27, 2012)

What a pain. I'm glad you're moving the horse.

Some kids don't realize they're stepping on toes and some kids know they are and will grind those toes into the ground to get what they want.

I knew a woman who didn't want to sell a horse so she priced him at $10,000. The seller came up with $10,000 and off into the trailer he went.

However, revoking a price and changing your mind isn't uncommon and in your right. If you have a horse up for sale and some undesirable person comes by with cash in hand, you have every right to say yes or no to the buyer. Its not a one sided decision. In this case, the price was named but the seller did not like the buyer, so the deal is off. Not to mention the horse wasn't dad's to sell...

I knew someone who had cash in hand to someone who said they'd sell a horse and at the last minute, the seller declined and took the horse off the market. Nothing wrong with that. Putting a horse up for sale is not a contract.

Hopefully this girl will be out of your hair soon. It might have to get ugly before it gets pretty again, especially if she's not used to being told no. I think you really lucked out with having that horse in your bf's name though.


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## TrailTraveler (Jan 4, 2014)

*It's not "OUR" horse -- It's HIS*

You asked for opinions, so here's mine:

First, that title says it all: "Girl thinks OUR horse belongs to her!" REALLY? That horse isn't "ours." It's "HIS" - your boyfriend's, at least. His dad's, more likely. YOU do not own that horse. And that's where you get sideways. YOU really shouldn't be involved in this at all.

Read on:



darkpony said:


> *The final straw for me was when we wanted to use her for a friend to ride, and the girl flat out said no, you cant take her. *My boyfriend had enough, and we picked her up that day and that was it!!
> 
> ... *I have become attached to this mare.* And now this girl is coming around again!! My boyfriends dad is a PUSH OVER!(I use that term lovingly) but *ultimately it is his decision. I am beyond frustrated. *
> 
> ...


This sounds more than a little "Dog In The Manger," to me. Meaning, you don't really want the little 14hh mare so much as you want to keep her away from the 18 year old girl. You got wadded-up when the girl told you not to take the horse out, and now you want to punish her for it.

Points in fact: 

(1) The mare is too small for your 6'1" boyfriend to comfortably ride, but *you* have grown attached to her. Yet I wonder: How often have you ridden her during the past two years? You said that the mare frequently stayed at the trainer-girl's house.

(2) This situation seems to bother *you* a lot more than it bothers the boyfriends' parents or the boyfriend, for that matter. It wasn't really an issue for the mare to stay at the girl's house until *you* decided you wanted to loan her out to a friend.

The way that I see it, if your boyfriend's family actually followed through on their offer to sell the horse to the trainer-girl, then he could buy something that would be suitable for him to ride ... with you. Then all three of you could be happy: you and your boyfriend can ride together, and the girl gets the horse that she loves.

Finally, you ask "What should WE do?" IMO, YOU (singular) should butt-out and allow the family to make this $10,000 decision on their own.

From me, personally, writing as the mother of two twenty-something sons: If you were dating either of my sons, I'd be furious with you -- all the more so, if I ever found out you had referred to my husband as a "pushover." You're "stirring the pot," arousing a lot of drama that really doesn't concern you. If you and your boyfriend break-up, what will happen to that mare? Are you planning to buy her from your boyfriend's father? Will you play him $10,000? How much will she be ridden as a second horse at your house, as compared to how often she's being ridden at the trainer-girl's house?

If I were you, I'd think long and hard about what you're doing and how it could be interpreted. From my vantage point as a mom -- your actions seem pushy, self-serving, and more than a little manipulative. If some chicklette my son was dating rabble-roused like this, I'd wonder about her motives and her suitability as a partner for my son. Just a little food for thought.


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

TrailTraveler said:


> You asked for opinions, so here's mine:
> 
> First, that title says it all: "Girl thinks OUR horse belongs to her!" REALLY? That horse isn't "ours." It's "HIS" - your boyfriend's, at least. His dad's, more likely. YOU do not own that horse. And that's where you get sideways. YOU really shouldn't be involved in this at all.
> 
> ...


Considering OP said she and her bf have been together for 7 years and they own a home together, then yes, I would think she absolutely has some say in the matter. I don't think she's rabble-rousing at all.


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## Corazon Lock (Dec 26, 2011)

And, too, consider the fact that the OP *is *looking out for the best interests of the horse. It would be completely different if the horse were actually on the market and she were chasing off all the buyers, but that is not the case. I wouldn't want any horse I knew to go to a home like that either. 

I would speak up, too, so would that make me a meddling, manipulative girlfriend?


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## TrailTraveler (Jan 4, 2014)

I know a lot of people feel that way. Personally, I do not. 

If one is content being designated as a (sex/gender)-friend as opposed to a husband or wife, that's fine for them. But the fact that you're not willing to put a ring on it, well, that says something to me, too. Just my opinion.


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

TrailTraveler said:


> You asked for opinions, so here's mine:
> 
> First, that title says it all: "Girl thinks OUR horse belongs to her!" REALLY? That horse isn't "ours." It's "HIS" - your boyfriend's, at least. His dad's, more likely. YOU do not own that horse. And that's where you get sideways. YOU really shouldn't be involved in this at all.
> 
> ...


Considering how long they have been together and the fact that they live together, yes she should have a say in the matter. Relationships, especially serious ones, aren't one sided. You have a life together in a serious relationship. A mother shouldn't control her son or her son's relationship, if he has a life with someone, then it becomes their decision. Not mom and son's decision.

ETA A ring shouldn't change anything, decisions shouldn't start being mutual just because of a circle around your finger.


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## Corazon Lock (Dec 26, 2011)

But every relationship is different, too. Some people don't believe they need to be married to be happy. Some become married by common law. So, with all due respect, you can't really say that the OP has no say because you don't really have an idea of the relationship dynamics. I do see your point, but I would be very cautious trying to label this relationship based on your own opinion.


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## TrailTraveler (Jan 4, 2014)

Corazon Lock said:


> And, too, consider the fact that the OP *is *looking out for the best interests of the horse. It would be completely different if the horse were actually on the market and she were chasing off all the buyers, but that is not the case. I wouldn't want any horse I knew to go to a home like that either.
> 
> I would speak up, too, so would that make me a meddling, manipulative girlfriend?


I stand by what I wrote: It was not an issue until the girl told the OP "no." That girl invested two years of her time in the horse, and the OP is able to couch the story in whatever manner she wishes. She could make the trainer-girl out to be Medusa, if she so chose, when she wrote it.

As for me, I trained in composition and rhetoric and learned how to interpret language, content and sentence-structure. The word "I" appeared in that write-up more often than not. That makes me think that it's more of a personal matter for the OP than anything else. Again, JMO.


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## Corazon Lock (Dec 26, 2011)

TrailTraveler said:


> I stand by what I wrote: It was not an issue until the girl told the OP "no." That girl invested two years of her time in the horse, and the OP is able to couch the story in whatever manner she wishes. She could make the trainer-girl out to be Medusa, if she so chose, when she wrote it.
> 
> As for me, I trained in composition and rhetoric and learned how to interpret language, content and sentence-structure. The word "I" appeared in that write-up more often than not. That makes me think that it's more of a personal matter for the OP than anything else. Again, JMO.


 If I were the OP, even if my boyfriend and I were in total agreement on the situation, I would probably use "I" and not "we," considering "we" are not writing this, but "I" am. And I think that the situation where the girl told the OP no was an example, not the start of the real problem.

You can only get so much information based off of a written explanation, and that is more of a psychology I think. 

Anyway, I do believe this is the OP's problem as much as her boyfriend's, given their long relationship.


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## TrailTraveler (Jan 4, 2014)

Corazon Lock said:


> But every relationship is different, too. Some people don't believe they need to be married to be happy. Some become married by common law. So, with all due respect, you can't really say that the OP has no say because you don't really have an idea of the relationship dynamics. I do see your point, but I would be very cautious trying to label this relationship based on your own opinion.


I'm not "labeling" their relationship. The OP used the term "boyfriend," not "common law husband." 

And I didn't say anything about "happy." Anyone who has been married knows that marriage isn't about "happiness." It's about COMMITMENT. It's about making a VOW to stay together, for richer, for poorer; in sickness, in health, etc. 

The reason the divorce rate has skyrocketed in the last century is because people labor under the misconception that marriage is supposed to be all about happiness; and when they no longer FEEL "happy," they look elsewhere and they leave. Their word doesn't mean anything anymore, so they forsake the promises they made and beat a path out the door to find "happiness" elsewhere.

Anyway, I'm not going to respond further and hijack the thread, making it about marriage rather than this situation. If you want to argue some more, PM me. I'll be glad to oblige.


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

TrailTraveler said:


> I know a lot of people feel that way. Personally, I do not.
> 
> If one is content being designated as a (sex/gender)-friend as opposed to a husband or wife, that's fine for them. But the fact that you're not willing to put a ring on it, well, that says something to me, too. Just my opinion.


Whoa, that just took this to a totally different level. Plenty of people are in totally committed relationships but just don't get married for whatever reason (like you know, the crazy high divorce rate). As the bf lives with the OP, and presumably share finances, the OP should have more of a say than his parents. Bf's a big boy, he doesn't need his mama over his shoulder telling him what to do and who he should date.

Sorry for derailing the thread OP!


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## TrailTraveler (Jan 4, 2014)

SullysRider said:


> Considering how long they have been together and the fact that they live together, yes she should have a say in the matter. Relationships, especially serious ones, aren't one sided. You have a life together in a serious relationship. A mother shouldn't control her son or her son's relationship, if he has a life with someone, then it becomes their decision. Not mom and son's decision.
> 
> ETA A ring shouldn't change anything, decisions shouldn't start being mutual just because of a circle around your finger.


(1) The father bought the horse for his SON.

(2) The horse did NOT live with the son. It lived with the father (when it wasn't living with the trainer). If possession is 9/10 of the law, then the horse is, ostensibly, the father's (who also paid for the training).

(3) You use the word "control" in reference to mother and son -- and yet it's plain in this instance that the girlfriend is the one trying to exercise control over a situation which, again, shouldn't concern her. The horse is too small for the boyfriend. The father paid for the training. And the horse has been living with the trainer. Where, in any of this, does the girlfriend come into question? When she gets wadded-up because the trainer said she couldn't take the horse out.

(4) And that little "circle around your finger" is a symbol of eternity. It MEANS something. If you're in a relationship, but not wearing one, then it says something about your mindset. 

Again, if you want to argue -- PM me. This thread is supposed to be about a horse ownership problem, not some people's current valueless view of marriage.


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## darkpony (Nov 20, 2013)

TrailTraveler said:


> I know a lot of people feel that way. Personally, I do not.
> 
> If one is content being designated as a (sex/gender)-friend as opposed to a husband or wife, that's fine for them. But the fact that you're not willing to put a ring on it, well, that says something to me, too. Just my opinion.


Lol!! This made me laugh. I am MORE than willing to put a ring on it. And any relationship is about commitment not just a marriage. Question my motives if you must, but I am not in the relationship to gain anything. I am in it because I love my boyfriend who happens to have a problem with a girl trying to steal his horse( or OUR horse) since everything we have is SHARED!!Also this horse is a family favorite. So yes in the last two years I have ridden her quite a lot. In fact, nearly every weekend that she was home. NONE of my horses are hay burners. I spend every second I can with them. My boyfriend has a horse that suits him, and we ride together a lot. On the day she told me no(which you think cause the problem) we were planning to go ridding TOGETHER, and had a friend who also wanted to ride. The girl was not even supposed to have the horse at that time. And that just happened to be the last straw. 

His parents and I have a great relationship. They are a second set of parents to me. And as for "putting a ring on it" it is in our plans, and I am sure it will happen in the near future. And contradictory to what you might believe... I am not the type of girl friend that will push him into that sort of thing. He will ask me when he is good and ready, and at that point I will come to you for marital advice. Because you seem like you know a lot.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

TrailTraveler said:


> I know a lot of people feel that way. Personally, I do not.
> 
> If one is content being designated as a (sex/gender)-friend as opposed to a husband or wife, that's fine for them. But the fact that you're not willing to put a ring on it, well, that says something to me, too. Just my opinion.


 
_Really?!_
I didn't realise the OP was asking for relationship advise. 

What difference does that ring truly make?! I'm not against marriage... but that is a darn narrow view of life, my dear, and not everyone feels the need to 'put a ring on it' to prove something.

OP, sorry for derailing. 

Your BF needs to find his gonads. If the horse belongs to him, he needs to speak to his pops and tell him that he makes all final decisions on the horse. 
The girl needs to be told that, as happens every day, the horse is no longer for sale. Thank her SO much for all the hard work she has put in to her, but she is now being used as a horse for you and her help is no longer required. You wish her all the best for finding a future horse. 

You may not mean it, and she may start a hate campaign, but at least you walk away with your heads held high. If she has THAT much of a reputation of ruining horses, people will let it go in one ear, and out the other.


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

Well, looks like this thread got derailed.

Whether or not a couple chooses to commit themselves in marriage is their choice and only theirs. It has nothing to do with this situation. And it is a bit mean-spirited and unproductive to put a "lesser" label on a stranger's relationship because it does not mirror your ideals.


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## TrailTraveler (Jan 4, 2014)

Mulefeather said:


> Well, looks like this thread got derailed.
> 
> Whether or not a couple chooses to commit themselves in marriage is their choice and only theirs. It has nothing to do with this situation. And it is a bit mean-spirited and unproductive to put a "lesser" label on a stranger's relationship because it does not mirror your ideals.


REALLY? HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO WRITE THIS: * "If you want to argue about marriage, PM me." * I'm not here to hijack a thread. The OP asked for opinions about the situation, and I gave mine (and I stick by it): It's not her business and she should butt-out. Whether it's popular or not -- I don't care, really -- it's still MY OPINION. And the OP invited opinions when she started the thread.

Further, Mulefeather, my comments are NOT "mean-spirited." I don't wish the OP any ill, nor have I morally slandered her. I stated my opinion, based on the facts that the OP originally posted.

If the OP considers herself an equal partner and has been living with her boyfriend for more than seven years, then she should use the term "common-law husband." "(Gender/Sex)-friend" IS a "lesser label" than "husband" or "wife." That's a fact. The OP used the term "boyfriend," and -- like it or not -- that labels their relationship as "less than marriage." 

And yes, their marital status has EVERYTHING to do with this situation. If the OP was the boyfriend's "wife," then yes, she would have a stake in the horse, according to ANY court of law. Instead, people muddy the waters by declaring that a "boyfriend" is the same as a "husband." Yeah? Not so much. Ask any barrister or judge.

I'll write it again: * I'm not here to hijack a thread,* but I darned sure am not going to back down while you all BULLY ME because of my opinion -- which the OP invited, by starting the thread. _That_ is "mean-spirited," in my opinion.

Now, *anyone care to respond to the OP's original post? 
*


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## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

perhaps you shouldn't have stepped into territory you didn't belong in. 

Why bother judging someone's relationship? It's like saying same sex relationships aren't valid. That interracial relationships aren't valid. That long distance relationships aren't valid. 

And if you haven't noticed, they have a house together. Is that not good enough for you? What does it matter the type of jargon they use to describe their relationship? It is still valid, it is still reasonable. It is just a label that they feel comfortable with, and not something that should be diminished due to the "superiority" of marriage.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Deschutes said:


> perhaps you shouldn't have stepped into territory you didn't belong in.
> 
> Why bother judging someone's relationship? It's like saying same sex relationships aren't valid. That interracial relationships aren't valid. That long distance relationships aren't valid.
> 
> And if you haven't noticed, they have a house together. Is that not good enough for you? What does it matter the type of jargon they use to describe their relationship? It is still valid, it is still reasonable. It is just a label that they feel comfortable with, and not something that should be diminished due to the "superiority" of marriage.


BOOM. There it is.

Sorry.

I'll climb back in to my box now :3


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

TrailTraveler said:


> I stand by what I wrote: It was not an issue until the girl told the OP "no." That girl invested two years of her time in the horse, and the OP is able to couch the story in whatever manner she wishes


I'm speaking as a trainer who did go to people's houses and break their horses for them and exercise them. If I would have told any of my clients that they could not take their horse (that was trained) on a trail ride and not have a valid reason such as health, safety, etc I would be out of a job. And rightly so. Especially if the owner (or rider) is an experienced horse person. 

You can bet as an owner I'd fire them in a heart beat. It's one thing to say: "I would not recommend doing so" and another to say "No." This is all taken with a grain of salt because I wasn't there but this is what would happen to either my employee or me as a trainer. 

"Our horse" well, even though it's not the same my mom's horse I call my horse and "our horse". She owns him but we both ride him, pay for his expenses and are more than happy to share him between the two of us. Pronouns don't matter too much, especially when the asset is shared. 

As for marriage the only comment I want to make is have you seen how expensive it and divorce can get? I'd much rather have a steady boyfriend than ever get married and deal with that financial stress.


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## TrailTraveler (Jan 4, 2014)

Deschutes said:


> perhaps you shouldn't have stepped into territory you didn't belong in.
> 
> Why bother judging someone's relationship? It's like saying same sex relationships aren't valid. That interracial relationships aren't valid. That long distance relationships aren't valid.
> 
> And if you haven't noticed, they have a house together. Is that not good enough for you? What does it matter the type of jargon they use to describe their relationship? It is still valid, it is still reasonable. It is just a label that they feel comfortable with, and not something that should be diminished due to the "superiority" of marriage.


Really? You're still responding to me rather than the OP? 

Again, I didn't judge the OP's relationship. SHE did, by referring to her significant other as a "BOYFRIEND." That's NOT the same as "husband." LOOK IT UP IN A DICTIONARY if you're having difficulty distinguishing between the two.

"They have a house together?" Really? Interesting that she refers to the horse as "ours" and the house as "MY." (Go back to the original post and look it up.) This goes to MINDSET, whether you recognize it or not.

"The type of jargon they use to describe their relationship" IS relevant because WORDS MEAN THINGS. Again, there's this thing called the "dictionary." It gives definitions SO WE CAN UNDERSTAND EACH OTHER. *"Canter" does not mean "trot," nor does "trot" mean "walk."* "Banana" is not synonymous with "apple." "Hot" is not synonymous with "Taco." DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS? * "Boyfriend" is NOT the same as "Husband." "Girlfriend" is not the same as "wife."*

I know you want everything to mean the same thing --but that's the root cause of the backsliding of our civilization. *We cannot communicate rationally anymore because people like you want everything to mean nothing.* You, madam, are diabolically confused if you cannot recognize DIFFERENCES such as these. 

. *I am just trying to guide attention back to the OP's original question. Do you have an opinion for that, Deschutes? Or did you just want to be part of the hijacking team that keeps on dredging up MY posts rather than answering the OP?*


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Wondering if TT would have had an issue with it if the OP had said fiancé instead of boyfriend. Just random musings. 

TT is correct that in the eyes of the law the OP has no say over the horse unless she's a co-owner. That being said, I don't think it matters one whit what designation the OP chooses to use concerning her SO.


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## Peanutbutter (Apr 23, 2014)

I am just not seeing where this horse have been tried stolen?


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## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

I have an opinion for everything. 

You seem to fail to realize that there really, truly, is absolutely no necessity in discerning the legalities of "boyfriend" and "husband." Why? Because this is not a legal case. You're just pulling up assumptions for yourself and making arbitrary calls, while invalidating something that two people share simply because of some mishmash about law. 

I have no trouble discerning the difference between boyfriend, fiance, or husband, but I do have trouble understanding where you have the right to devalue someone's relationship due to petty semantics. 

And perhaps you should sit yourself down in the corner before you make yourself look any worse with this temper tantrum you're throwing. Again, if you didn't want to step into the fire, then don't light things up that will get you burned.

edit: and I might reiterate, again, that this is not a legal court case, yet. I agree that if it were, that the word "our" would be replaced with "his" however, such is not the case and you're pulling straws. Out of an invisible cup, I might add.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

In my eyes, it's pretty simple. 

Horse is not worth $10K
Potential buyer has been given $10K as purchase price
Potential buyer possibly has $10K

Sell the horse before it severely injures or kills itself and becomes worthless to everyone but the tallow company.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

If the true owner of the horse has not put a stop to this girls use of the horse then I fail to see why the OP has a problem with it.
Either the boyfriend or the father should make the decision about who can use the horse, when to use the horse, or if to sell the horse.
I agree with Trail Traveller on that point. The OP should stay out of this .
I am a psychologist and IMPO this is not about horse ownership but control.
I believe that the OP cares about the horse .
The OP has no legal right to decide what happens to the horse. Period. Shalom


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## Regula (Jan 23, 2012)

I don't see what the problem is.

The girl was paid to train the horse (I'm assuming that's what "hired" means). This contract can be revoked by the owner at any time. If she wants to keep dabbling in horses, she better learn that now.

Besides that, I don't see much she did wrong. She was asked to work the horse and did it at the best of her knowledge and ability.
When she was told to back off she did, and she did nothing (barrel racing, shoes, bringing the horse to her house etc) to the horse without discussing with the owners first. It is beside the point that the dad is a pushover, she consulted him.
She was told she could purchase the horse for $10G, and she apparently made a big effort to make that possible.

She seems intrusive to you, darkpony, but the only thing that I see where she went wrong is when she told you that you couldn't use your own family's horse.
I think though that the bigger problem is that she was told she could buy the horse when they had no intention selling her...

As for "what to do" - I am always against making up stuff (telling her the horse has been sold to you). In my opinion, it is always best to shoot straight. Doesn't need to be nasty, just tell her "look, our family is as attached to this horse as you are and we are not interested in selling her. Better look for another prospect with your money." There is certainly no shortage of horses.
If you want to go further you can tell her you are concerned for long-term soundness with the horse's current workload and you prefer her not to be worked that hard any longer. All of this is the truth, without attacking her personally...

As an adult and a professional, she will get to hear these kind of things all the time anyways.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

> (4) And that little "circle around your finger" is a symbol of eternity. It MEANS something. If you're in a relationship, but not wearing one, then it says something about your mindset.


SERIOUSLY? With the divorce rate what it is, and the number of people cheating on their spouses, and you BELIEVE that?

Reading the first post, I read the girl was HIRED to work this horse in the beginning. Does that not kind of sound like she was PAID for her efforts in the beginning? Wherefore does that give her ANY right to any part of the horse?
Gee, I'd better not hire a trainer for my horse if I want to continue owning her, right? As for this nitwit child, even if she DOES magically come up with $10,000, they are STILL not obligated to sell her the horse. Why would anyone think this person was entitled to anything belonging to someone else?


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

If either of my daughters boy friends ever tried to influence a decision in my household or what to do with a horse of mine or my daughters, they would learn Very quickly not to meddle in my families affairs. Shalom


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## jmike (Aug 21, 2013)

dbarabians said:


> If either of my daughters boy friends ever tried to influence a decision in my household or what to do with a horse of mine or my daughters, they would learn Very quickly not to meddle in my families affairs. Shalom


a father buys a gift for the son and gives that gift to the son
son no longer lives at fathers house

does that gift belong to the son or the father?

the father needs to either butt out or respect the wishes of his son

-- edit --

but i do agree with the sentiment, if he doesn't have a leg to stand on, knock them out from underneath him

-- end-edit ---


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

dbarabians said:


> If either of my daughters boy friends ever tried to influence a decision in my household or what to do with a horse of mine or my daughters, they would learn Very quickly not to meddle in my families affairs. Shalom


Sorry, but the son is a grown man who has a house with his gf of seven years, who (OP's words) he is probably going to marry soon. He legally owns the horse and is moving that horse to be with his gf's. Father has overstepped his boundaries, doesn't matter that he gave the horse to his son years ago. As the bf and the OP presambly share finances, she SHOULD have far more say in the whole matter than the parents (which, in any case, the mother seems to agree with the OP and bf). Doesn't matter that they're not married.

If they were minors, this would be a very different story. But they're not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## liltuktuk (Dec 16, 2011)

It appears to me that the OP is concerned about the well being of the horse, not meddling in her boyfriend and boyfriend's fathers affairs. Maybe her boyfriend asked for her advice. Or maybe since they've been together for 7 years and live together they discuss the issues with the horse and this girl on a regular basis. Does her being "only a girlfriend" mean that she doesn't have the right to ask for advice online in an open forum? 

OP, if your boyfriend (who it sounds like to me is the true owner of the horse) and you don't want the horse sold, then tell the girl she's not for sale. And let your boyfriend tell his Dad that he's in control of what happens to the horse. And if you don't want the girl working with the horse anymore, then don't let her. Sounds like you're bringing her to your home soon anyway? If this girl has been abusing the opportunity your boyfriend and his family gave her to work with this horse (by not doing what you'd guys like, not bringing her back home, etc.) then don't have any qualms about putting a stop to it. Sounds like she was the trainer, boyfriend is the owner, owner gets final say.

And on the subject of relationships. I've been with my boyfriend for 9 years, living together for 2. And I'll be darned if anyone would make me feel or insinuate that my relationship is any less important or less of a commitment than if we were married. We've obviously made a commitment to each other if we've been together this long. Doesn't mean we need a piece of paper or rings on our fingers to prove it.


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

So, you said the horse was being moved. Doesn't this solve the whole problem?


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

the OP wants control of the horse.
The father bought the horse for the son but she is too small. The father has paid for the training and is the one who probably has paid for feed, vet, hoof care etc. 
I also see that not only does the trainer manipulate the father but the OP is also.
I dont care whose name is on the registration papers that does not denote ownership. It simply means the horse is registered in the BF name.

When my daughters marry then and only then will their partners be treated as full fledged family members and their input in family matters welcome.

If your family welcomes your boyfriends and treats them as family members then that is your family dynamics. I have no problem with that. In my family I make the rules.
I am very socially and politically liberal but we will have to disagree on this matter. 
I have counseled too many couples in my 30 years as a therapist to not see the difference in those that make a legally binding committment and those that do not. Shalom


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Folks,

a few inflammatory remarks have been editted, and hopefully, the discussion can be kept to the situation, and away from any personal punching. 
please skip the "popcorn" posts, too. they add nothing but a touch of ridicule.


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## PadenPaint (Apr 27, 2014)

this might just be me... but if someone is willing to give me $10K for a horse that I don't use... yep, sold.


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

I'm wondering where it says that the father pays everything for the horse? Honest question, did I miss something?


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

EliRose said:


> I'm wondering where it says that the father pays everything for the horse? Honest question, did I miss something?


I have not seen that either but if the father has paid for training and is the one giving permission to use the horse and making decisions about what to do with the horse then HE probably thinks the horse is his. 
The OP has stated it is a family horse and that it was at her BF's parents house.
This leads me to believe that, though it might just be implied, the father 
is the one paying for care and feed. 
No where has the OP stated that she or her boyfriend paid for the care of this horse. Shalom


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## darkpony (Nov 20, 2013)

EliRose said:


> I'm wondering where it says that the father pays everything for the horse? Honest question, did I miss something?


WE(my boyfriend and I) pay for all expenses except hay-since they make their own. We did not pay for the trainer since that was something my boyfriends dad started. 

I also want to say that this has been happening over 2 or 3 years ( since I believe the girl is almost 19) obviously I only briefly explained the problem. I wish now that I would have added more details. 

I'm not sure some of you read the entire thread.. But my BOYFRIEND and I are in agreement. And yes his mom also agrees, and his dad too, until she goes to him crying and makes him feel bad.. My boyfriends mother has had a talk with him. As I said before.. My boyfriends mom already told her she is no longer for sale , but if she asks again my boyfriend will step in. 

Yes she is being moved in with MY horse. - I don't know if this is where some got confused.. Our horses are not at our home. My horse-meaning the one only I ride, because my boyfriend isn't fond of him- is boarded so he can be closer to our home. This is where the mare will be moved at the end of the week. The problem has been solved for now.. 

As for me wanting control... That is hardly it. I love this horse, as does everyone else in the family. If she would have been sold(especially to this girl) the family would have regretted it forever. Some of you may think I don't belong sticking my nose in this, but I am as much a part of the family as I will ever be. Ring or no ring.


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## darkpony (Nov 20, 2013)

Sorry to double post.. But I was thinking of this while I was making dinner. I want to thank a couple of you for giving me a whole new appreciation for my family life. This issue has never caused drama within the family. We just collectively were unsure how to go about it. I am so grateful for my future mother and father in law :hug: :~P


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

> I don't care whose name is on the registration papers that does not denote ownership. It simply means the horse is registered in the BF name.


Oh, hey, try THAT one in a court of law!


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## HorseMom1025 (Jul 17, 2012)

Darkpony, I did want to say that I see your side as well. I'm someone who enjoys sharing / giving. We often invite my daughters friends out to the barn to see the horses, because I know how lucky we are to have one.

I too have offered something only to have that person want more and more and more. Until finally even my generous spirit was at it's breaking point! I believe this girl did take advantage of your FIL's generous nature...I can see how her take, take, take attitude would wear thin. The problem I saw was the conflicting messages she received from the family.

I'm glad you have it all worked out and wish you a drama free future!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## darkpony (Nov 20, 2013)

Thank you. Hopefully we made it clear for her now. But she is persistent. She is not happy about the situation and I have no doubt she will try again. We will all just have to be consistent from now on. I do see where we went wrong. The horse was never really for sale.. And yea she was definitely getting mixed signals!


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

squirrelfood said:


> Oh, hey, try THAT one in a court of law!


Registration papers are not proof of ownership. It is not legal proof of ownership. Take someone to court and see.

I have bought mares and not switched the papers into my name that does not mean that until I did the former owner still owned the horses. A bill of sale is proof of ownership. Shalom


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

darkpony said:


> Thank you. Hopefully we made it clear for her now. But she is persistent. She is not happy about the situation and I have no doubt she will try again. We will all just have to be consistent from now on. I do see where we went wrong. The horse was never really for sale.. And yea she was definitely getting mixed signals!


A simple NO is all that is needed. Who cares what she thinks or feels.
You cannot control her feelings her thoughts or her actions. 
I would not have anything to do with this person. That should send the message loud and clear. Shalom


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

dbarabians said:


> Registration papers are not proof of ownership. It is not legal proof of ownership. Take someone to court and see.


Exactly. Bills of sale trump registration papers when it comes down to who legally owns an animal. 

Registrations are useful only to denote who the breed registry recognizes as owner for breed shows and to register progeny. 

I have two Arabians and one Thoroughbred, all registered with their prospective registries. I also have bills of sale for each of them, as those are my legal proof of ownership.


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## Copperhead (Jun 27, 2012)

Eh.

Trail, your views on relationships are a little backwards in my book and thats all I'm going to state on it. Thats alright, since I'm not in a relationship with you. You can view them as you like, naturally. But others don't share the same view and I believe the OP is in her complete right and stance in making educated decisions with her boyfriend. The point is that the OP may sound selfish to you by using the word "I", but in the end she is actually looking out for the horse's best interest. So the use of "I", "me" or "myself" is pretty pointless.

We can debate who owns the horse and who has rights over the horse until the second coming, but it won't matter any. The horse is being taken out of that uncertain and ever flexing situation and thats all that matters. Obviously the dad isn't happy with the situation either but can't find his nasty side to reject the girl. It just so happens that the gonads in this situation are the women and the men are slowly and successfully being persuaded to grow their own pair. Hey, if a woman has to step it, a woman has to step in.

I hope the OP keeps us updated on the situation.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Copperhead Trail is correct. A Boyfriend has no legal say in the division of property, inheritance, no legal right to hospital visitation, or over 1,000 other legal rights married couples enjoy.
I have been involved with HIV infected people professionally and politically. I have seen families that would not visit their dying child or pay for the funeral force the partner to leave a home that they have lived in and paid for.
Trails opinion is based in legal and historical facts maybe even religious that does not make them "backward" . 
As a therapist I know couples that are in relationships for ten and even 20 years or more that are unmarried. A few are healthier and more stable than married couples. Very few.
If you are in a long term relationship, and enter into a long term financial agreement, or have children yet will not legally ensure your spouse is protected. IMPO there is something wrong with the relationship.
A marriage does not make a relationship valid. It legally binds and protects the couple involved. That is the importance of marriage and why everyone should be allowed to marry the partner they love. Shalom


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

If it is true that this girl raised the 10,000 dollars, then the dad in this scenario owes her a big apology for saying something that may have lead her to work hard and go to a lot of trouble to gather the funds, only to be told that the hrose is not for sale.


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## darkpony (Nov 20, 2013)

If she does have the money... its because it was given to her. Not because she worked hard to raise it. 

Dbarabians... I believe in the importance of marriage. And legally yes this horse is not mine. I can not argue that, nor am I trying to, but my boyfriend and I share everything else. The horse does not need to be legally mine, because my boyfriend values my opinion, just as I value his. This is not a legal matter. I was simply asking for a way to get this girl out of our hair. Marriage is in the plans for us. It has not happened yet, and I could give you the reasons why we havent married yet or why we chose to buy a house before marriage, but I wont because I don't think it would add to the thread in any way.

forgot to add.. tinyliny, the girl was given the price in june of last year, and then after she tried but failed to get her dad to take out a loan for her, the rest of the family made it clear that the horse was not for sale anymore. I probably should have put that in my original post, but I only now just remembered it. She then purchased a little bay mare instead, for a smaller price.


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

Jeez Louise...

I don't have much to add, but let me say that I understand why you were upset with someone treating the horse in a manner that in your opinion, was unethical. Been there, done that. I learned the hard way never to get attached to a horse that's not mine and if I can't do anything to help the animal, get out of there so at least I don't have to watch it. I could write a book on irresponsible and unappreciative jerks who treat horses like toys, but that's beside the point.

Hopefully this whole situation will be put to rest once you move her and you and your boyfriend can enjoy your horses in peace. Good luck.


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

sorry I read thru the first 3 pages, didn't get on for awhile and now theres 7 more so im skipping those. I have a feeling its a lot of repeat. but.

are you and your BF activiley using this horse? is the dad? no matter who is on the reg. or the BoS, imo if none of yall are actually riding and working this mare and its just a matter of not wanting THIS girl to have her...sell her to somebody else? does the dad still want to ride the mare? do you?

I would say get all the papers sorted and in one name internally in the family and then decide what yall REALLY want for this mare.

hope it all works out.


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## Bondre (Jun 14, 2013)

Darkpony, I'm glad you have collectively resolved the problem with your bf's horse. I just wanted to say that I admire the way you have sailed through this thread with a virtual smile on your face. You have absorbed or deflected the below-the-belts with great poise - perhaps you should consider a career in diplomacy? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## darkpony (Nov 20, 2013)

roperchick-yes I do use her quite a bit. Now that she isnt being taken to barrel races every weekend, and she is easily accessible, I ride her every weekend. She has been camping with me once or twice too. She also is a great babysitter for my boyfriends neice and nephew. She is an extra horse that anyone can ride, so she gets all the newbies. -The girl did do a good job on starting her, and the horse is as mellow as they come. (one of those once in a life time worth her weight in gold horses) 

The dad is not a horse person, he doesnt ride. She is more of a dog to him, and comes in his garage while he has a few beers and watches the Packer game. 


Bondre-Thank you!! everyone is entitled to their opinion. I did ask for it after all  I did my best not to get my panties in a bundle. Some of those opinions actually helped me to understand this girl and come to peace with the issue. The girl and I were at one point friends in my younger years. She used to follow me everywhere before winning got to her head.


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## frizzy (Jun 10, 2012)

I'm glad the mare is being moved. And the problem is sorting its self out  

Perhaps we could start a thread on relationships in general as I have opinions but don't want to hyjack this thread


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

Now thats all said and done, you owe us pics of this lil mare XD!


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

Roperchick said:


> sorry I read thru the first 3 pages, didn't get on for awhile and now theres 7 more so im skipping those. I have a feeling its a lot of repeat. but.
> 
> are you and your BF activiley using this horse? is the dad? no matter who is on the reg. or the BoS, imo if none of yall are actually riding and working this mare and its just a matter of not wanting THIS girl to have her...sell her to somebody else? does the dad still want to ride the mare? do you?
> 
> ...


WHY do people think they can't do as they wish with their own horse? It's been made pretty obvious they don't WANT to sell the horse.


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## darkpony (Nov 20, 2013)

KigerQueen said:


> Now thats all said and done, you owe us pics of this lil mare XD!


Kiger-you already know this mare. She is due to foal in July. 

I didn't include that whole thing in the original post because that is a topic for a entirely new thread!! And I can only handle one thread like this at a time


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## darkpony (Nov 20, 2013)

Frizzy- hijack away! It's already been done anyway


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## frizzy (Jun 10, 2012)

darkpony said:


> Frizzy- hijack away! It's already been done anyway


Why thank you dark pony  

I also believe in the importance of marriage and the meaning behind it but no one should ever judge the importance/status of a persons relationship just because they use the word boyfriend and I, I am engaged but we have no plans on getting married in the near future does that now mean that my relationship is seen as less significant because we are not married.

and as for the comments that unless they are married into the family they have no say in family matters my fiancées family is as much my own as his and vice versa I always listen to there opinions and they mine. 

Unfortunately in this day and age marriage is not what it used to be. People get married then divorced then married and so on. 

Back in my box I go


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## Corazon Lock (Dec 26, 2011)

DarkPony,
I figured you and your boyfriend shared items, money, etc. And I felt bad for that poor horse! Some people just shouldn't have horses.

You know, for me, I think of marriage as the ultimate step in a relationship, where you do own a house and share property, money, and items. BUT, I understand and respect that people do things differently. It's not my place to tell people what to do with their lives. Everyone is different, as is every family, and that is perfectly okay. Sometimes, you don't need a ring to state your opinion. And it's really nobody's business to judge that except the people directly involved. 

Also, I know that relationships and marriages aren't always happy. However, people love the other person enough to keep trying and have the strength to do it. Proper communication and compromises I believe are key to any relationship. In this case, the OP did communicate with her boyfriend that she did not believe that selling the horse to this girl was okay.

Plus, she was looking out for the welfare of the horse. It was never about control but about saving a horse from someone that was going to ruin it. It doesn't matter if someone thinks the OP is leaving information out really. This is an Internet forum. You can only read the text people give you and perhaps read in between the lines. You have to take the OP at his or her word and give the best advice you can based on the information given.

Okay, I am getting off my soap box now. I just really hate it when people decide to criticize the OP for something that isn't fact but opinion and is not central to the situation. Pet peeve of mine. 

OP, I'm glad it has all worked out.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

I prefer to just live my life and let others live theirs. If asked for advice, I offer it. You can take it if it suits you. If you don't, that's your business. It's not my place to sit in judgement over others, nor insist they live the way I want them to. I know, OT and I'm not even christian.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Darkpony I am glad you have a good relationship with your BF and his family. I sincerely hope it last.
My post was not meant to be judgemental , but as a warning. 
Why you are not married is none of my business. Good luck. Shalom


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

oh! Now i got to dig for foaling thread lol XD!


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

Also i understand putting off marriage. There are financial advantages to not getting married (tax wise). And it would make sense to buy a house before getting married. I have family that have been together for 20 years and never married. They never saw the point and it mikes life easier on their wallets to not be legally married.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

dbarabians said:


> Registration papers are not proof of ownership. It is not legal proof of ownership. Take someone to court and see.
> 
> I have bought mares and not switched the papers into my name that does not mean that until I did the former owner still owned the horses. A bill of sale is proof of ownership. Shalom


Agreed, but without a bill of sale, that horse would be considered the registered owner's. Years back, one of my aunts had a nasty divorce. Her ex-husband was trying to give as little to her as possible (he later married the gf he cheated with), listing her assets and increasing their values by large amounts. My mom helped her sister out by getting quotes of the actual low value of a very rusty beat up horse trailer that the ex-husband claimed was worth thousands. Among the assets he listed my aunt owned, he included 2 mares that were on the property that my aunt had been riding and taking care of. The reason their inflated values were removed from the list of assets owned by my aunt was because these mares were registered as half Arabians with the owner as one of my other aunts. My aunt going through the divorce did not legally own the mares, she did not have a bill of sale or any signature signing over the mares, she just had free use of the mares in exchange for taking care them. Some time after the divorce was finalized, my aunt who had been caring for the mares was given the transfer papers with ownership of the mares and she then transferred their registration. 

As a side note, the Arab Database has errors as these mares are listed on their site with incomplete pedigrees. Somehow they have their dam's pedigree but their own correct foaling date and information. They are maternal sisters out of a half arabian mare with different arabian sires... But according to the database, they are full sisters born 2 years apart :shock:


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

squirrelfood said:


> WHY do people think they can't do as they wish with their own horse? It's been made pretty obvious they don't WANT to sell the horse.


Don't know where THIS came from or why I was attacked for it.....

I did not post that in a rude or catty way (sorry OP if it came off that way)

Just to clarify...I never said ANYTHING about them not doing what they wanted with their own horse, and no it wasn't clear to me that they didn't want to seel it just that it was not a good idea for the other girl to get her.

As I did say, I was only able to read through the first couple pages so I missed out on a lot.

Sorry again OP if I came off rude.

To avoid further needless drama allow me to say I'm glad things are starting to work out and as Kiger said...pics would be awesome:wink:


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

Roperchick said:


> Don't know where THIS came from or why I was attacked for it.....
> 
> I did not post that in a rude or catty way (sorry OP if it came off that way)
> 
> ...


Wasn't you especially, just all the people who keep insisting the OP should sell the horse whether they want to or not.


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## Amba1027 (Jun 26, 2009)

darkpony said:


> Kiger-you already know this mare. She is due to foal in July.
> 
> I didn't include that whole thing in the original post because that is a topic for a entirely new thread!! And I can only handle one thread like this at a time


Wait, so, the mare has been pregnant for a bit and this girl is still bugging you to use her/buy her? Why didn't you just say thanks but we're planning on keeping her for breeding purposes/she is pregnant so we will be keeping her here now? I would think that the fact that you bred her would indicate to this girl that she isn't going to be using the horse for a while or that you really aren't interested in selling her. I don't know much of anything about breeding but wouldn't it be a bad idea for the girl to be running barrels with a pregnant horse anyway?


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## darkpony (Nov 20, 2013)

yes-she has not ridden her since last summer. She was given a price in June, then decide not to sell and we brought her to visit the stud in August. 

The baby is Due in July and she must have it in her head that the only reason we want her is to have the baby, and after we are "done with her" she will be for sale again. Not the case.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

All this "drama" took place nearly a year ago and the price quoted is well in the past? the mare is now due to foal in a couple of months?
Why did the title to this thread and the first post by the OP imply that the trainer was trying to harm and take possesion of the horse recently?
I can see no reason for this thread.


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## darkpony (Nov 20, 2013)

She is still trying to buy this horse. yes, all of this happened over a span on 2-3 years. I thought I was clear on that? This whole issue has been reoccuring.


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## darkpony (Nov 20, 2013)

I guess maybe I was unclear. This mare was born in 07. The family bought her as a weanling. She was started at 2.5/3 by this 16(or I guess she might have been 15) year old girl. Summer of the mares 3rd year (2010)the girl was already barrel racing her, and the horse needed shoes every 4 weeks because the girl rode the shoes off her. The horse was road foundered and lame. Fall of 2010 mom told the girl no more. Girl stays away for a year and a half. Spring of 2012 girl goes crying to dad who allows her to ride the horse again. She rides the horse off and on for a year. Spring/Summer of 2013 the girl began to take advantage(bringing the horse home with her/leaving her at friends house over night when she was not supposed to leave the propery except for shows). Early June of 2013 the girl had the horse at her home and told us we could not use her on a trail ride. We then brought the horse home. The whole family was upset about the incident and the dad told her unless you can come up with 10k, we cant have you riding her anymore. Girl tries to get a loan but fails. Family decides not to sell her. August 2013 Family brings mare to be bred. Present: mare is due to foal in July, and Girl texts mom saying she has the money and wants to buy the mare as soon as she foals. 

I hope that somewhat clears it up.


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## darkpony (Nov 20, 2013)

I am sorry if you feel I have wasted your time with this thread, but I was simple asking for advice on how to get this girl to stay away. Since she is a local girl, and used to be a friend, They were trying not to tick her off. I just wanted opinions or advice, This thread has been very helpful and I am glad I started it.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

Just tell her that you guys love her as much as she does and that you could not bare to part with her. That you love the mare and want to keep her and the foal. Also let her know that the father has no control over the horse what-so-ever and that you are sorry there was any confusion.

I can empathise with you. I lived in a small town and my life sucked when one person decided they did not like me. If she keeps making a stink about it after you tell her that you love her and that she is family, she looks the fool. Kill her with kindness and make it so that IF she decides to get upset you cant look bad. 

This is why i want to brand my mare (Apha Angle brand). People get a little too attached to her at times....


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

What kiger said.

Hopefully by moving to your place the girl will start to realize that this horse is just not an option. Good luck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

I have been in a similar situation myself personally. However, not as a horse owner, but as someone who wanted the horse. 

The horse was a Tennessee Walking Horse that I worked with at faire. He was a rescue, and no one bothered to really work with him until I went about and got some miles on him and his brain working. I offered to purchase him, pay for his vetting, his feed, tack and overall care while letting the faire lease him and keep him on the land. 

The only "catch" was I had to see how we "bonded." I would have paid the same amount he was purchased for initially (400 dollars). In the end I decided to pass because I couldn't risk his training getting messed with, and the true owners was never clearly defined. One person said it was hers as she paid for him (supposedly), and was supposed to be paid back, while the other person said he was paid three ways and I had to get all their permissions. 

Screw that. 

Now he's being used due to the work I put into him. Which is dandy, but his living situation is still not to par of what my standards would be, but... oh well.


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

You don't owe her a reason for not selling the horse. You/your boyfriend are the owners. You have every right to refuse a sale, end of story. 

She had no business contacting his mother about it. The mother is not the owner. At 18 - 19 years old, she darn well ought to know better. I think it's time to stop being nice. She's taken advantage of every kindness given to her, so maybe some tough love will get the message across.

PS: I hope she doesn't know where you're moving the horse to. I wouldn't put it past her to show up uninvited and help herself.


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## darkpony (Nov 20, 2013)

She has already asked to come see her at the new place. You are right. I would not put that passed her!!


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## jmike (Aug 21, 2013)

wow -- she is very persistant

hopefully not psychotic


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