# Is there a sedative you can put in horses feed



## Narvy10 (Jul 21, 2010)

Need a seditive but not needles or herbs? does anyone know?


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Why do you need a sedative? You can get sedatives in worming tubes, and yes you can get some forms that can be put in a feed, but they're not very strong, just take the edge off a little. Depends why you 'need' it though, if it's because your horse is a bit flighty or whatever, well, you'd be deemed a pretty irresponsible horse owner, you also can't sedate for competitions/pony club etc.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

You can give Ace through a syringe (under the tongue) without a needle. You can also give it in a pill form. It is a prescription drug though and should not be used when riding the horse. It's uses are more for trailering or for horses with HYPP that are being introduced into a new environment.

What are you wanting the sedative for? There are calming supplements that are legal to show with if that's what you are needing. Although, you'll get quite a few reviews on them, most people don't see any changes in the horses behavior with the use of them.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Watch out farmpony, they bite


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

farmpony84 said:


> You can give Ace through a syringe (under the tongue) without a needle. You can also give it in a pill form.


Does it help at all? I remember giving actually an Ace shot before the 1st trim and it had zero effect (and of course trim was not done  ).


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Kayty said:


> Watch out farmpony, they bite


C'mon, Kayty! How you give the dewormer then? I don't think it's any tastier than Ace! :lol:


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

kitten_Val said:


> C'mon, Kayty! How you give the dewormer then? I don't think it's any tastier than Ace! :lol:


Lol Kitten_Val, that wasn't about worming - above comments have been removed by the looks, I got shot down in flames for asking what the reason for sedation was and please not to sedate if it is for under saddle purposes  'They' referring to the OP


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Kayty said:


> Lol Kitten_Val, that wasn't about worming - above comments have been removed by the looks, I got shot down in flames for asking what the reason for sedation was and please not to sedate if it is for under saddle purposes  'They' referring to the OP


Oh, I see. Ha-ha! I do remember a discussion in Training Section about giving a dewormer and biting/bolting/kicking/etc. "side effects" associating with the whole procedure. :lol:


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I missed the removed comments! LOL.... 

I think asking "why" is a good question, especially when giving this type of advice.

As for the ACE. I think it depends on the horse. I first used it for Beauty when we were doing daily bandage changes on her leg after she severed the tendons. I used to be sick to my stomache just thinking about the bandage changes. It took three of us (it was a back foot). It was just such a painful process and that girl has some serious aimage! I saw a difference in her, enough to safely change bandages.

I used it again for Riley when he got stuck in the trees but I didn't really think it effected him at all so I think it depends on the horse and the situation.


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## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

The deal with Ace is that if a horse gets really upset he can override the calming effects of the drug. This is especially true if the horse is already worked up before you give the Ace or if you don't give enough time after dosing for it to take affect. And when they override it they are generally wilder then they would have been because they are drugged. 

But it is valuable in lots of situations and if used correctly. It's just that it won't work on every horse in every situation.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Ryle said:


> The deal with Ace is that if a horse gets really upset he can override the calming effects of the drug. This is especially true if the horse is already worked up before you give the Ace or if you don't give enough time after dosing for it to take affect. And when they override it they are generally wilder then they would have been because they are drugged.


Actually my horse overrode the one, which goes IV (it's not the Ace, but the one vets give to knock them down to do teeth etc., not sure about the name). Even vet said he never seen anything like that before. So Ace was obviously just like nothing for her.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

You can give Ace orally. I have put it in feed when I couldn't get to the horse with a shot. It doesn't have the same effect orally though, so you have to increase the dose. Ask your vet about the dosage, or if he/she recommends a different product.

I agree that you need to generally give a tranqualizer before the horse gets worked up, and keep them calm while it takes effect. In my case we needed to trim a horse's hooves. The horse was not big on trimming and hard to catch, so we gave him ace laced feed about 20 minutes before I needed to catch him. It worked like a charm.


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## Narvy10 (Jul 21, 2010)

Its to get my unhandled rescue filly on the truck to get her home, She doesnt lead so paste and needles arent an option.. Its not for showing or anything like that.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

Narvy10 said:


> Its to get my unhandled rescue filly on the truck to get her home, She doesnt lead so paste and needles arent an option.. Its not for showing or anything like that.


I would go with Ace then. Take some pictures of the horse and ask your vet about dosage. You can buy a big bottle for a relatively low price from your vet. I keep a bottle hand, "just in case." Squirt however much your vet recommends in a bucket of sweet feed and set it in the pasture for her. If there are other horses in the pasture with her, just dose all of the buckets. It won't hurt for them to have some. Then go sit in a chair and wait. Once she looks a bit more compliant, try to catch her or corral her. Be calm about it, so she doesn't work the sedative off. Once you have her in hand, if she's starting to act a bit frisky again, just sit with her to calm her down, then give her a little more in some feed. Get her on the trailer when she's calm, but not too wobbly. You don't want her falling in the trailer.

Good luck!


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## Narvy10 (Jul 21, 2010)

Yeah hopefully the lady that has her down there can do that, she has to travel 900km in the truck to get here


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## Juniper (May 4, 2007)

I want to know how a horse gets stuck in the trees?


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

luvs2ride1979 said:


> I would go with Ace then. Take some pictures of the horse and ask your vet about dosage. You can buy a big bottle for a relatively low price from your vet. I keep a bottle hand, "just in case." Squirt however much your vet recommends in a bucket of sweet feed and set it in the pasture for her. If there are other horses in the pasture with her, just dose all of the buckets. It won't hurt for them to have some. Then go sit in a chair and wait. Once she looks a bit more compliant, try to catch her or corral her. Be calm about it, so she doesn't work the sedative off. Once you have her in hand, if she's starting to act a bit frisky again, just sit with her to calm her down, then give her a little more in some feed. Get her on the trailer when she's calm, but not too wobbly. You don't want her falling in the trailer.
> 
> Good luck!


Please please please don't tell people it's a good idea to sedate a horse for travelling. Their balance and digestion are affected, and can easily go down or colic. Plus if you have ever seen a horse snap out of being ACEd badly, you would never want to put a drugged horse in a confined area under sedation like ACE again, it is horrendous. They often have no concern for their own physical well being and will do anything to get out of the situation, flipping themselves over and climbing up walls. Put one of these horses in a float/truck and you are asking for huge trouble.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

Kayty said:


> Please please please don't tell people it's a good idea to sedate a horse for travelling.


Ace is short term sedative. It wears off completely after less than an hour in most cases. It's great for travelling. No, you shouldn't sedate a horse to travel as a regular course of action, but in the OP's case, it makes perfect sense. As long as she explains her situation to her vet and follows his/her directions, I see no reason NOT to sedate her horse.

I have used Ace on hard to load horses before. You only want to give enough to make he horse more compliant, not enough to affect the horse's balance or mobility... In the OP's case, I would give a little more since the horse is unhandled, and then take it very slow when driving or let the horse sit in the trailer 10-15 minutes until the sedative starts to wear off a bit.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

Kayty, how else would you get an unhandled horse in a trailer, if you have limited manpower and no "chute"? I doubt the OP has weeks to work on gaining the horse's trust enough to halter and get it in the trailer willingly, and feeding inside a trailer (and then shutting the door behind the trapped horse) doesn't work for unhandled horses... Roping the horse and dragging it in or chasing it on to the trailer (with a make-shift chute) is very traumatic for everyone involved, including the horse. 

A moderate sedative and some trime is a much "calmer" way to handle the situation, IMO.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Yes, it is a mild and short term sedative. But what happens if the OP gets the horse into the truck, and half way along a busy highway it 'snaps' out of the sedation? Or if the horse goes down around a corner? 
Oh well, up to you. Personally I prefer to have a fully conscious horse in the float, it's nerve wracking enough without having to worry about the poor ****** losing the plot when the sedation wears off and it's suddenly in this noisey, unstable dark box. 
Each to their own.


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## Narvy10 (Jul 21, 2010)

Well personally i agree with luvs2ride1979 because she is TOTALLY unhandled, i dont see any other way on how they would get her into a huge transport truck without sedation. You cant run her up it, as this truck has over 100 individual bays. It wont be dark in the truck and they have padded flooring so the horse cant loose grip easyly. Its either she gets shot or gets on the truck to come to me, so you think about what the horse would rather.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Actually, she'd probably rather be shot than be scared half to death being trucked in an enormous truck, in a small bay when she's been unhandled. Shooting is over before she even knows what's happening.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Narvy10 said:


> as this truck has over 100 individual bays.


????? 100 bays?


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Kayty, you are being pretty extreme.

Is it the best thing to sedate a horse to truck it? No. It is not. 
Is it a clear death sentence waiting to happen so you might as well just kill the horse instead? Certainly not even close.

I think you would be shocked to know now many horses do what sedated with out a craptastic end result like you are trying theorize happens.

Ace is not the type of tranq that the mare is going to suddenly pop out of and freak. 

The likeliness of her getting down/hurt in the trailer on Ace is no more likely than a non drugged horse going down or getting hurt in a trailer.

A mild tranquilizer is the perfect solution for this situation.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

AlwaysBehind, I'm only being extreme because of the reply I had to my first post - reply has since been deleted. I offered sound advice, and got shot down in flames. Oh well, each to their own. 
Yes, they can be sedated to travel, but I would be very worried about her coming out of it while travelling and panicking, not necessarily because of a reaction to the drug, but because she is suddenly in a noisy, moving and small bay.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

luvs2ride1979 said:


> *Ace is short term sedative. It wears off completely after less than an hour in most cases. It's great for travelling.* No, you shouldn't sedate a horse to travel as a regular course of action, but in the OP's case, it makes perfect sense. As long as she explains her situation to her vet and follows his/her directions, I see no reason NOT to sedate her horse.


It's 500 miles (!) travel per OP. I wonder if the horse will stay on trailer all those 500 miles?


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Narvy10 said:


> Well personally i agree with luvs2ride1979 because she is TOTALLY unhandled, i dont see any other way on how they would get her into a huge transport truck without sedation.


I'm not gonna judge here if sedation is a good way to go or not for lack of experience and knowledge. What I know for sure though that both my fillies were TOTALLY unhandled and VERY BADLY abused in one case, but even though my friends were able to load them on stock trailer and bring them to me (~70 miles away) without big trauma for the horses. I don't know how they managed to do that but they obviously did (although the husband definitely has a way with horses, even bad ones). So there are ways (and I'm also 100% sure they didn't beat them or chase them in).


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

kitten_Val said:


> It's 500 miles (!) travel per OP. I wonder if the horse will stay on trailer all those 500 miles?


500 miles is not a long trip, Val. It is much safer to keep the horse on the trailer then to unload/load him again. When I moved from PA to SC I made the 750 mile trip with two horses in a 3 horse GN in a day only stopping to offer water and for me to rest.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

My daughter just brought the two barrel horses, one having just been sutured up non stop in the trailer, about 500 miles. They both traveled well, even poor Ginger. I think they do just as well in the trailer, traveling than getting on and off in strange surroundings.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Kayty said:


> AlwaysBehind, I'm only being extreme because of the reply I had to my first post - reply has since been deleted. I offered sound advice, and got shot down in flames. Oh well, each to their own.
> Yes, they can be sedated to travel, but I would be very worried about her coming out of it while travelling and panicking, not necessarily because of a reaction to the drug, but because she is suddenly in a noisy, moving and small bay.


Drugs do not 'suddenly' leave the system.

As far as trailering an unhandled horse - we do it every year when we wean the colts for the breeder. Back the stock trailer to the barn and push the colts through the barn. We unload into our indoor arena and push the colts into the barn stalls.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

mls said:


> Drugs do not 'suddenly' leave the system.


Ok so apparently you haven't been reading previous posts. A horse can 'snap' out of drugs, if the filly is unhandled and not confident around people, she may well fight the effects of the drug, in which case it is actually quite common, particularly if using ACE, for the horse to 'snap' out of it and become wildly dangerous to itself and anyone around it. A friend's horse broke it's back after being ACEd for clipping, it snapped out, galloped around like a manic, ran straight into a fence, flipped over and broke it's back. 
So yes, drugs most certainly can appear to suddenly leave the horse's system. When you have seen a few horses snap out of drugs, then I think you may re-consider your words.

One example
http://www.stockyard.net/vbulletin/horse-management/39706-horse-sedation-float-disaster.html


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Isn't this whole conversation moot, anyway?

The OP isn't there with the horse, so it'll hardly be up to her to decide whether or not the horse is tranqed for transport, or even know just _how_ she was coerced into getting on the trailer.

What intrigues me is this transport that has '100 bays' and padded flooring. I've seen horse transports with *40* stalls, and those were humongous and pulled by semis. I can't imagine _anything_ with 100 stalls unless it's being hauled by a locomotive, and although I've heard of padded _walls_, padded flooring would be dangerous.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I agree with MLS so though they were not my words I am willing to say they do not need reconsidering.

I have dealt with many a horse on drugs. No snapping. There are horses that do not tranq well. But they are not standing napping one second and freaking the next. They never get to the standing napping phase.

Kayty, you obviously have only heard of bad things......

In reality lots of horses are drugged lots of times with no ill affects.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Hmm ok, lets put this another way. You ever tried loading a horse that REALLY doesn't want to load? There's been a few down this way that I've witnessed at comps be sedated to load, just with ACE and a few other mild oral sedatives. No way in hell were those horses going to load.

Unfortunately I have to admit that I have gone down the path of sedation to load, it was my first pony, I was 10 years old, my parents didn't know the first thing about horses and the pony had never left the property on which she was born. We, along with the property manager tried unsuccessfully for a couple of hours to load this pony, and also enlisted the help of the local breaker! No way in hell was that pony going to load. 
So local vet was called to sedate her. First shot, didn't budge. Second shot. Didn't budge. Third shot. Didn't budge despite being half asleep. Couldn't give her any more without killing her according to the vet. It took 5 very strong blokes to literally LIFT her into the float, while she continued to fight, dig her heels in and attempt to run back out. 
Very dangerous practice, we were extremely lucky that she came out of it alright and I have since never used that vet again as I see that as an extremely idiotic thing to do, particularly with inexperienced horse people.

Moral of the story - if that horse is REALLY scared, or REALLY doesn't want to load, a light oral sedation is not going to load the **** thing quietly and willingly, and allow it to stand happily in a truck for 500miles. 
The amount of sedation needed to get the horse onto the truck would require a vet to administer a large dose of sedative, and in a truck, if the horse goes down it is in BIG trouble. 

Good luck.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I have loaded more than one horse in my life that thinks a horse trailer is trying to chew him up and spit him out. 

I have also dealt with many-a aced horses.

Ace can be very helpful. It can do nothing. I have never seen it be helpful and then the horse freaks out. Not that type of drug.


I do have to agree with speedracer though. The OP is not going to be there when this horse gets on the trailer so all this conversation truly means nothing.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Kayty said:


> So yes, drugs most certainly can appear to suddenly leave the horse's system. When you have seen a few horses snap out of drugs, then I think you may re-consider your words.
> 
> One example
> Horse+Sedation+Float = Disaster.


Nope - I won't.

I work in the equine industry. Have for more years than I care to admit.

Will place a bet I have seen many more sedated horses than you have. If you actually watch them, you will see them coming around.

FYI - news stories tend to dramatize things to sell papers . . .


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

iridehorses said:


> 500 miles is not a long trip, Val. It is much safer to keep the horse on the trailer then to unload/load him again. When I moved from PA to SC I made the 750 mile trip with two horses in a 3 horse GN in a day only stopping to offer water and for me to rest.


That's interesting. I do remember reading somewhere that you have to give them a break and unload every 200 - 300 miles. I never trailed that far myself though.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

mls said:


> As far as trailering an unhandled horse - we do it every year when we wean the colts for the breeder. Back the stock trailer to the barn and push the colts through the barn. We unload into our indoor arena and push the colts into the barn stalls.


I believe that was done with my paint as well. Definitely worked for everyone (because shot or syringe wouldn't be an option).


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## mdischler (Jul 22, 2010)

My horses have competed internationally in Dressage. If they are traveling long distances they will be unloaded and allowed to stay the night at another boarding facility along the way. Many professional shipping companies do this. It really helps to keep them happy when traveling long distances.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Welcome to the forum mdischler. What do you consider long distance?

As for my situation, there was no way possible, even if it would be necessary, due to one of the horses being a 2 year old filly with no previous trailering experience and a real problem to load. The trip took ~12/13 hours and went without incident.

As for what professional shippers do, I can tell you that I once had a filly brought up from FL to PA without the horse coming off the truck. The shipper I used was checked out very carefully before being hired.

Things may be different for International horses in Europe but I can also tell you that most of the cutting horse trainers I know - and I'm talking the upper echelon, will ship from TX to CO straight through.


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## mdischler (Jul 22, 2010)

My horses regularly travel from the Chicago area to Florida, California, Kentucky, and Texas in addition to Europe. They are very comfortable trailering and this works best for them and myself.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Juniper said:


> I want to know how a horse gets stuck in the trees?


I have no idea... I'm thinking he fit in between the trees the year before???


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Horses are just so dumb I have no words sometime. My generally very smart qh got her head stuck between the gate and the post couple years back. Wasn't the best experience I must say.


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## Juniper (May 4, 2007)

Oh my gosh, Farmpony 84, that is truly funny. Looks like your horse was pretty calm about the whole thing. 
MLS you give great advice on here but I have to say horses DO snap out of Ace and hurt people and themselves and that is not trumped up by the news. It's not my story so I won't give details but I do personally know someone recently that happened to, with the experienced good vet right there, so everything was supposedly being done correctly. It was a young horse and just started to come out of the Ace a little bit and something startled it and the horse went berserk and did serious damage to a person and itself.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

Here's a "smart horse" for you. This is my neighbor's TW gelding. He had some of these chairs stored in the barn. The horses found their way in to get at some grain and Cinnabar decided to rearrange the furniture, lol. He came running right over to my husband and I and we slipped it over his head. He was fine ;-).


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

I removed several posts - lets stay on topic.


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## Juniper (May 4, 2007)

the horse with the chair is hilarious. glad he was not hurt.


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## SaddlebredGrl (Oct 8, 2009)

OP I'm so glad you are trying to save that filly, and i think you should be fine if that is your only option. I mean it'd be different if you were actually there to help her load and really see how she is acting.

I'm so disappointed in horse people, I mean you asked a simple question, and people always have to find the bad, and think they know everything. I think they are good for offering their opinion on their experiences, and give their advice but that is all it should be. I don't understand why people can't get a long! I have the same problem at my barn.

All in all it's your decision, and it may go bad, but it may be just fine you just have to do what you have to do.

My horse is a crazy loon when it comes to loading, but never been sedated, We had two grown men trying the rope behind the butt technique, uh... they lifted his back feet up off the ground, and he still wouldn't get in, two hours later i show up, and lift the rope up tap him on the butt with a whip and in her goes!


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Kayty said:


> Actually, she'd probably rather be shot than be scared half to death being trucked in an enormous truck, in a small bay when she's been unhandled. Shooting is over before she even knows what's happening.


I'm not sure I understand the intent behind this post. Many people purchase previously unhandled horses and then face the dilemma of hauling.

Was your intent merely to stir trouble?


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Juniper said:


> O It was a young horse and *just started to come out of the Ace a little bit* and something startled it and the horse went berserk and did serious damage to a person and itself.


 
You said it yourself - (see bold)

The "berserk" is fighting the sedation.

Our horses coming out of anesthesia are kept in the operating room - which is 100% padded. Some start coming to and start fighting the anesthesia. Keep in mind horses are fight or flight animals. If not in control, they will fight.


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## Juniper (May 4, 2007)

So, couldn't that happen in the trailer? Personally, I might sedate the horse and take my chances. but isn't that what Kayty was saying that if you sedate the horse it is more likely to get startled coming out of it on a long trailer ride and get really hurt than just trying to get it in the trailer wild and taking your chances that way?


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## draftrider (Mar 31, 2010)

I have yet to go to a farm and not see at least a few pipe gates or panels laying around. Get the horse in the barn, back trailer up to barn and crowd the horse into the trailer. Its NOT HARD. Just be patient and take your time. Remember that if you are quiet and calm the animal will be MUCH more cooperative than if you are hooting and hollering and trying to force it into the trailer. Just crowd it. 

Make the trailer NICE inside. Make sure there is hay in there and it smells horsey. Make the trailer a nicer place to be than the scary pipe panels slowly taking up space.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

farmpony84 said:


> I'm not sure I understand the intent behind this post. Many people purchase previously unhandled horses and then face the dilemma of hauling.
> 
> Was your intent merely to stir trouble?


Nope, I was asked directly whether I think the horse would prefer to be hauled 500 miles or shot. I merely answered the question honoustly.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Narvy10 said:


> Its either she gets shot or gets on the truck to come to me, so you think about what the horse would rather.


There you have it


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Juniper said:


> So, couldn't that happen in the trailer? Personally, I might sedate the horse and take my chances. but isn't that what Kayty was saying that if you sedate the horse it is more likely to get startled coming out of it on a long trailer ride and get really hurt than just trying to get it in the trailer wild and taking your chances that way?


Thank you Juniper. I appreciate that YOU at least have though about what I have posted and understood it, rather than taking short snippets and mis - understanding them 

And as draftrider has just explained, there ARE other ways to get this filly on a trick than drugging her up and shoving her on - which again as I explained previously, is not as easy as whacking some ACE into her system and leading her on.

I have also been attacked over saying somewhere back along the line as part of a sentence that horses can go off the rails when the sedative wears off 'suddenly'. Obviously, if you read through other people's posts, it is not only my 'wild imagination' thinking that horse's snap out of a sedation when startled. So this little filly is on a truck, just starting to come out of a sedation, and the truck hits a bump and makes a loud noise. Filly sure as hell gets startled. But hey, is it worth the risk??? Apparently going by the flavour of this thread.


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## Juniper (May 4, 2007)

Yep, I think unsedated is what most people do with unhandled horses. But mostly around here they use stock trucks with lots of room, not small trailers, when the horse is not used to hauling.


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