# Smokey Black or Faded Black?



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Sorry those pics are HORRIBLE to judge color from.

The first one is the only decent one.

Sire does look black but dam I wonder if maybe is brown?

I want to say fading black from the first pic but again would want to see more/better quality.

He is VERY cool looking though I can't say I'm a fan of the ****y faces in a few of those shots, the dog one concerns me.

Would love to see more pics if you can get them, partially cause he's just so cool lol.

Clean close up/big pics in good lighting..


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Looks faded black to me. If you really want to know, you would need to pull hairs and test for cream. 

Also, the dam is not black. She has a light color around her muzzle. She is a dark bay/brown, however you want to describe the agouti mutation. 

If he is smoky black, then his sire would also be smoky black as it would be obvious if his dam who is based based had a cream gene. Has the sire ever produced buckskin or palomino foals when bred to bays or chestnuts?


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

The top picture is a smokey black (cream gene) and the bottom is a faded black horse. It's really hard to tell without testing for color.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

And, believe it or not, this horse is tested and is buckskin.


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## daystar88 (Jan 17, 2013)

Here are the only photos I can find that shows his actual color. 
Even his baby coat, I don't have a photo of it on my laptop, was a dark dark brown. 

The only other sibling he currently has that I know of is a dark bay tobiano who's in the photo with him playing. His sire is expecting more foals and one is from a chestnut mare so I'm waiting on her since she's due any day to see what color she throws. 

Again, I do not own him yet, but am hopping to buy him this summer so these are the best photos I can get right now. I am going to get him color tested as soon as I buy him.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

If you feel those last pics are accurate I definitely would test. Definitely cream and if you want agouti as well (to determine if he is black or may, he looks suspiciously buckskin-y though I don't see it in the previous pics).

Yes if the full sibling is bay-doesn't super look it in that pic- then you know the mother is NOT black. Cream hides on black, but black is black, agouti genes need to come from somewhere.

How old is he? And when were these pictures taken?

Curious as to the upcoming new sibling as well!


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## daystar88 (Jan 17, 2013)

Yogiwick said:


> If you feel those last pics are accurate I definitely would test. Definitely cream and if you want agouti as well (to determine if he is black or may, he looks suspiciously buckskin-y though I don't see it in the previous pics).
> 
> Yes if the full sibling is bay-doesn't super look it in that pic- then you know the mother is NOT black. Cream hides on black, but black is black, agouti genes need to come from somewhere.
> 
> ...


He is currently a year and 7 months, and these were taken over the summer which was his first summer coat. 

I'll definitely have every possibility tested.

Me too!! The owner is hoping for a boy, and the father is homozygous so she's excited about another paint!


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## RedDunPaint (Aug 23, 2015)

I just wanted to say he's absolutely gorgeous! I especially love his markings on the left side of his head/neck! I really hope you get him this summer. I'll be checking in for updates ;-)


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Subbing (8


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I would just call him a brown, and perhaps that is because I never worried much about color genetics, except those associated with genetic defects, esp in non breeding animals, or do you plan on keeping him a stallion?
The dog picture does not bother me, beyond someone not teaching the dog to not run with horses. Very natural for young horses, esp colts to 'play' with dogs as well as with each other


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## daystar88 (Jan 17, 2013)

Smilie said:


> I would just call him a brown, and perhaps that is because I never worried much about color genetics, except those associated with genetic defects, esp in non breeding animals, or do you plan on keeping him a stallion?
> The dog picture does not bother me, beyond someone not teaching the dog to not run with horses. Very natural for young horses, esp colts to 'play' with dogs as well as with each other


That's what I'm currently calling him, but everyone says I'm wrong. Whatever, I'll be getting a color test to too what he really is anyway.

He's supposed to be gelded before I buy him which would be great because it'll save me money. If not, he's going to be gelded once I buy him. I've already got one stud colt and don't need another. 

The dog belongs to his current owner and I'm not sure how well the dog knows his limits around horses. One of my dogs is terrified of horses, but loves to play with Cowboy. She never gets too close, but she teases him and they run around together a bit.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

That's how dogs get hurt though, so please be careful. Horses do not play gently, especially young males!


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

It is impossible to distinguish a smoky black from a true black.( yes I know about the whole true black but I am talking about a color tested EEaa vs EEaaCr/n(i think that's how you show 1 copy of cream). That being said there are some sun faded blacks that look like bays. My vote with the last two pictures is either a dark bay OR if there is cream at play he could be a sooty buckskin.


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## daystar88 (Jan 17, 2013)

Yogiwick said:


> That's how dogs get hurt though, so please be careful. Horses do not play gently, especially young males!


I don't know anything about his current owner's dog or how often she lets them around dogs. I do however know my dog keeps a safe distance and if a horse comes after her she runs to the other side of a fence. I do know it can be dangerous because my other dog, he's a Jack Russell and very protective, got kicked by one of my mom's mares in the jaw. Thankfully he's okay, but I know the risk. My Jack Russell got off his line when this happened, and I bought a new line since then.


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## daystar88 (Jan 17, 2013)

So the photo of the mare in this forum is NOT his mom. She is however the exact same color only not as much white. I'll see if I can get a photo posted.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

^Do please as the little details can be important. For example the mare you posted is not black but is brown which opens up a whole other bunch of stuff.

If mom is indeed black then baby is either black or possibly smokey (via cream hiding on one of the parents) and nothing else.


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## daystar88 (Jan 17, 2013)

This is the only photo I got of her and her color looks like just like her baby.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Well she's definitely sunfaded but aside from that hard to say for sure unfortunately. I _doubt_ she's buckskin and is either black/smokey black/brown but who knows.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Mom looks sun faded to me.
Do you plan to have color testing done?


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## daystar88 (Jan 17, 2013)

I do plan on getting him a color test to be sure.


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

Wow, just wanted to say.... he is GORGEOUS! I love his unusual markings.


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## daystar88 (Jan 17, 2013)

Remali said:


> Wow, just wanted to say.... he is GORGEOUS! I love his unusual markings.


Me too!


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## daystar88 (Jan 17, 2013)

Little Carma was born at 6:10am this morning! She's a half sister to the paint I posted originally inquiring his coat color. She's a bay tobiano out of the same sire.


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