# Can someone sell my horse on a verbal loan contract?



## DancingArabian

A person can sell anything in their possession. Whether or not its legal is another issue.

Technically you should be able to go pick her up and I think you should. However you don't have proof that you didn't give the horse away so be prepared to fight. Sounds like they believe the horse is theirs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Speed Racer

The person who's threatening to sell her has no proof of ownership, correct? You have a bill of sale and her registration paperwork? If so, go get your horse. 

This person is just trying to extort money from you, which is a felony. No way is anyone going to pay $10,000 for a grade horse, anyway. Once you get your horse, file charges against them for felony extortion.

NEVER, EVER let someone have anything of yours without a written, witnessed contract! Why do people keep getting caught with their pants down when it comes to this kind of thing?


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## dbarabians

Yes you do. Call the police and go get your horse.
This person is blackmailing you. You still have the horse in your name and they have no proof of ownership. Shalom


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## Kray012

Yes, I own all of her paperwork and have an original bill of sale on her. There was never a bill of sale for the person who is leasing her from me. Is there anyway for them to say they own her if I have all her paperwork?

It was definitely my bad for not creating a written contract! I feel like this just shouldn't happen!


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## Kati

Also, did anyone at this farm know about the arrangement? If so, I‘d inform them that you may need their support.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Skyseternalangel

No it's not their horse. You have the paperwork.. and even if you didn't I'm pretty sure since she has papers, they are in your name... right?


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## PaintHorseMares

dbarabians said:


> Yes you do. Call the police and go get your horse.
> This person is blackmailing you. You still have the horse in your name and they have no proof of ownership. Shalom


I agree. Call the police/sheriff and have them go with you to pick up your horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kray012

Yes, from my understanding the owner of the farm knows we loaned her to them. There was never a bill of sale or transfer of ownership.

Also, I don't understand why they contacted me. If they thought it was their horse why did they contact me to tell me they were going to sell her and that if I wanted her back I would have to pay..? Makes no sense to me. If they "owned" her they wouldn't have contacted me.. they would have just sold her.


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## DraftyAiresMum

Kray012 said:


> Yes, I own all of her paperwork and have an original bill of sale on her. There was never a bill of sale for the person who is leasing her from me. Is there anyway for them to say they own her if I have all her paperwork?
> 
> It was definitely my bad for not creating a written contract! I feel like this just shouldn't happen!


They can *say* all they want. Doesn't make it true or mean it'll stand up in court.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kray012

Skyseternalangel said:


> No it's not their horse. You have the paperwork.. and even if you didn't I'm pretty sure since she has papers, they are in your name... right?


Yes I have her papers and they are in my name.


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## DraftyAiresMum

Kray012 said:


> Yes, from my understanding the owner of the farm knows we loaned her to them. There was never a bill of sale or transfer of ownership.
> 
> Also, I don't understand why they contacted me. If they thought it was their horse why did they contact me to tell me they were going to sell her and that if I wanted her back I would have to pay..? Makes no sense to me. If they "owned" her they wouldn't have contacted me.. they would have just sold her.


That's where the extortion comes in. They probably don't have a potential buyer lined up. I would be willing to bet that if you called their bluff on it ("Ok, go ahead and sell her cuz I don't have the money"), they'd fold or come up with all sorts of excuses/lies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Skyseternalangel

Kray012 said:


> Also, I don't understand why they contacted me. If they thought it was their horse why did they contact me to tell me they were going to sell her and that if I wanted her back I would have to pay..? Makes no sense to me. If they "owned" her they wouldn't have contacted me.. they would have just sold her.


You can use that phonecall to your advantage if it comes down to that.


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## Speed Racer

They're just trying to extort money from you for your own horse. Do you have any witnesses to the phone call? This piece of scum needs to go to jail. In the meantime, go get your horse. NOW.

Registration papers do NOT denote ownership, which is why you need proof in the form of a bill of sale. A lot of horses' registration papers are never transferred from previous owner names. Doesn't mean the horses still belong to them. Those papers will just be helpful in this situation as back up to your bill of sale.


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## Kray012

DraftyAiresMum said:


> That's where the extortion comes in. They probably don't have a potential buyer lined up. I would be willing to bet that if you called their bluff on it ("Ok, go ahead and sell her cuz I don't have the money"), they'd fold or come up with all sorts of excuses/lies.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, I told them I was not going to pay them, and then they said that since I "don't want her back" someone is coming to pick her up Friday, March 1. I don't know if it is true, but it sure seems like it!


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## Speed Racer

Even if it's a bluff, why are you still dithering about it? Call the BO, and *go get your horse*.


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## Kray012

Speed Racer said:


> Even if it's a bluff, why are you still dithering about it? Call the BO, and *go get your horse*.


We are going to go get her later this afternoon!


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## Kati

Kray012 said:


> Yeah, I told them I was not going to pay them, and then they said that since I "don't want her back" someone is coming to pick her up Friday, March 1. I don't know if it is true, but it sure seems like it!


I agree with every one else. Go get her. Don't go alone and I would first file a statement with the police or something (what ever you feel is necessary) so that they can't just call in a stolen horse the minute you get her off the property. Remove her before Friday, or if absolutely nothing else works, ask for a third party to hold her until this can be sorted out. Do not let any _buyers_ (if they exist) take her.

I definitely agree that this is extortion. Unless the horse is actively showing (and doing well) or she has exceptional training and potential, I don't know any one who will pay $10,000 for a grade. I'm assuming if she was at a training facility she hasn't been actively shown?


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## Delfina

Don't tell anyone you are coming, just show up and take her. If you give warning, they'll have plenty of time to hide her elsewhere.


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## Kray012

Kati said:


> I agree with every one else. Go get her. Don't go alone and I would first file a statement with the police or something (what ever you feel is necessary) so that they can't just call in a stolen horse the minute you get her off the property. Remove her before Friday, or if absolutely nothing else works, ask for a third party to hold her until this can be sorted out. Do not let any _buyers_ (if they exist) take her.
> 
> I definitely agree that this is extortion. Unless the horse is actively showing (and doing well) or she has exceptional training and potential, I don't know any one who will pay $10,000 for a grade. I'm assuming if she was at a training facility she hasn't been actively shown?


She is a 1st premium Mare and is an exceptional horse (her father is Bolivar)! She has not been shown. I have used her as a brood mare and as a jumping horse, but have not done any showing (I am in college and just don't have the time). She is well worth the $10,000!!

I have contacted my sheriffs office and I am waiting for them to escort me to pick her up. I am also having a good friend of mine who owns a farm go with me.


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## smrobs

Kray012 said:


> I have contacted my sheriffs office and I am waiting for them to escort me to pick her up. I am also having a good friend of mine who owns a farm go with me.


This is very good. When you meet the deputy that will be escorting you, make sure that you show him all the ownership paperwork (bill of sale and her papers) before you ever go to the barn, so if they are there and decide to cause a fuss, the deputy won't have to examine the papers there in front of them.

Also, you really need to press charges for extortion. What they are doing (or trying to do) is a felony and they need to see some consequences. Even if they don't get convicted (which they may not unless you can show proof of their blackmail), it will still be on their record that they were charged for it.


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## amp23

Sounds like you have a good plan lined up despite the issues you've had. Good luck! Of course you'll have to let us know how it goes


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## Speed Racer

I'm betting this piece of garbage will turn tail and run when you show up. She most likely won't say jack to the police OR you, but you can bet I'd still be pressing charges! There are consequences for stealing and extortion, and this scum needs to know what it feels like to wear steel bracelets and have her picture taken by the police photographer.


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## Kray012

amp23 said:


> Sounds like you have a good plan lined up despite the issues you've had. Good luck! Of course you'll have to let us know how it goes


Yes I will definitely let y'all know! I'm just waiting to hear back from the sheriffs, so that I can go get her. This makes me so upset that they would do this!


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## Kati

Kray012 said:


> She is a 1st premium Mare and is an exceptional horse (her father is Bolivar)! She has not been shown. I have used her as a brood mare and as a jumping horse, but have not done any showing (I am in college and just don't have the time). She is well worth the $10,000!!
> 
> I have contacted my sheriffs office and I am waiting for them to escort me to pick her up. I am also having a good friend of mine who owns a farm go with me.


I'm sure she is! I don't want to offend. My only thought is the fact that you have her papers so they'd be getting a grade horse (no papered colts). Do these people know enough about her to advertise her properly to recieve $10,000 for her? (It's not that important. I'm just speculating.)


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## DancingArabian

Not to rain on the parade but I would get some security cameras just in case they come and try to steal her back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kray012

Kati said:


> I'm sure she is! I don't want to offend. My only thought is the fact that you have her papers so they'd be getting a grade horse (no papered colts). Do these people know enough about her to advertise her properly to recieve $10,000 for her? (It's not that important. I'm just speculating.)


Oh, I didn't take offense! It makes no sense to me either. I would never buy a horse without papers...especially for that amount of money and I don't know how they are planning on selling her. She has been at a well known jumping barn, so they could probably advertise her well, but probably not well enough for what they are asking! There are too many nice registered horses out there for much less than that! I think you are right, they are just setting me up.

Oh, and the buyer isn't even picking her up... They are supposedly shipping her. :?


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## Kray012

DancingArabian said:


> Not to rain on the parade but I would get some security cameras just in case they come and try to steal her back.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's a great idea. I am going to be taking her to my mom's property until I can arrange to move her to San Antonio, so camera's are a GREAT idea!


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## demonwolfmoon

subbing for updates. I hope everything goes well with the Sheriffs....all too often I've found law enforcement doesn't want to get involved when it comes down to it.

Unfortunately...


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## Kiara

Hope all goes well. People can be crazy sometimes.

I did have a question that maybe you could clarify: So you have your horse in training at this barn. How did this person come in contact with the horse? Do they take lessons there? Or are they some random people that hung around the barn?


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## Kray012

demonwolfmoon said:


> subbing for updates. I hope everything goes well with the Sheriffs....all too often I've found law enforcement doesn't want to get involved when it comes down to it.
> 
> Unfortunately...


Got an update! They said that they will be available whenever we decide to go pick her up, so I am just waiting on my friend to go with me.  

The sheriff said that if they cause too much fuss it will become a civil matter and then they are looking at theft of $10,000 (thats the price they put on the horse).


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## dbarabians

I recently had a mare taken from a pasture by the people that originally bought her at auction then turned her loose and chased her into my pasture.
I only needed to show coggins and vet bills to prove ownership to the deputy. That and a couple of witnesses verifying that the mare had been in my care for over a year. The thief even had the original bill of sale from the auction.
Go get that mare and then file a complaint with the local law enforcement officer. Shalom


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## Kray012

Kiara said:


> Hope all goes well. People can be crazy sometimes.
> 
> I did have a question that maybe you could clarify: So you have your horse in training at this barn. How did this person come in contact with the horse? Do they take lessons there? Or are they some random people that hung around the barn?


No, that's a good question. The person who was leasing her is related to another person who owned a horse on the property (I don't want to be to specific since I haven't picked her up yet). They didn't like their relatives horse... They only "bonded" with mine...


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## demonwolfmoon

Heh, and that's my point. Once it becomes a "Civil Matter' they won't want to touch it. They won't DO anything at that point, they will generally leave, write a report and tell you to file a lawsuit. In the meantime, your horse could go anywhere.

I am glad they are helping you. I'm crossing my fingers that the people who have her are so dazed by the Sheriff's presence that they let her go without a fuss.


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## onuilmar

Subbing.

Wow. Some people are sooo brazen. Can't imagine what you're going through. 

Good luck.


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## HorseMom1025

This sounds like extortion, I would press charges for sure!

Please keep us posted on how it turns out!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag

Wait a minute, conversations don't hold much water in court. Take your ownership and tell the police these people these people stole your horse. In Canada, theft over $5000 makes it a criminal offence. It might there too. Just deny having any conversation with them regarding you loaning them the horse. What they are trying to do is extort money out of you and that is a serious offence.Extortion isn't the correct word as there has been no threat of violence. The word eludes me at the moment but it is a serious charge.


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## Speed Racer

You're thinking of fraud, which really is the better legal definition than extortion or blackmail.

Fraud:
_A false representation of a matter of fact—whether by words or by conduct, by false or misleading allegations, or by concealment of what should have been disclosed—that deceives and is intended to deceive another so that the individual will act upon it to her or his legal injury._

Fraud is commonly understood as dishonesty calculated for advantage. In the U.S. legal system, fraud is a specific offense with certain features.

Fraud is most common in the buying or selling of property including real estate and personal property, as well intangible property such as stocks, bonds, and copyrights. State and federal statutes criminalize fraud, but not all cases rise to the level of criminality. Prosecutors have discretion in determining which cases to pursue. Victims may also seek redress in civil court.

Fraud must be proved by showing that the defendant's actions involved five separate elements: (1) a false statement of a material fact, (2) knowledge on the part of the defendant that the statement is untrue, (3) intent on the part of the defendant to deceive the alleged victim, (4) justifiable reliance by the alleged victim on the statement, and (5) injury to the alleged victim as a result.


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## WSArabians

demonwolfmoon said:


> Heh, and that's my point. Once it becomes a "Civil Matter' they won't want to touch it. They won't DO anything at that point, they will generally leave, write a report and tell you to file a lawsuit. In the meantime, your horse could go anywhere.
> 
> I am glad they are helping you. I'm crossing my fingers that the people who have her are so dazed by the Sheriff's presence that they let her go without a fuss.


That's EXACTLY what they told me when my horse was stolen. It's a civil matter, we won't do anything. Good luck. 
I got him back, no thanks to those...Ahem. 

Good luck, OP. I hope you learned a good lesson to keep everything in writing. 
I sort of wish I could go with you. I've been bored...


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## Copperhead

Can't wait to see her home. Don't wait too much longer. You don't want to give this person enough time to figure something out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DimSum

WSArabians said:


> That's EXACTLY what they told me when my horse was stolen. It's a civil matter, we won't do anything. Good luck.
> I got him back, no thanks to those...Ahem.


Just a point here, there's a lot of bashing about the police not getting involved in what amounts to a civil matter. I expect to get flamed here, but there is a good reason for that-they can't, it's forbidden by statute. Bottom line is they have no authority to interfere and would be in violation of the law if they were to do so. Not just criminal law, the police can (and have been) sued in civil court for big dollar damages when they overstep those strict boundaries.

LE deals with violations of_ criminal law_ and their powers are strictly delineated by statute, and they haven't much latitude. _Civil law _is another matter entirely, and when a situation falls under that category the law clearly states the Courts are the arbiters in those disputes. 

Now the OP's situation is a bit different than the average who owns horse dispute, these people are treading very close to extortion by threatening her. That might be something the local Prosecuting Attorney (they are the ones who decide what can be brought to a criminal trial-not the police BTW) might bring to a trial But, since she hasn't any type of written contract to back up her claim these people were only leasing the horse it walks that razor edge leaning into a civil law "he said she said"situation. 

I do hope the OP gets her horse back.


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## WSArabians

Oh, I won't really go into here, DimSum, but it was whole mess where they started to help (the guy admitted to the cop that he stole him) and then just left me high and dry. But...Different story. 

I'm sure the OP will get her horse back. Hopefully still in good and sane condition.


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## PaintHorseMares

WSArabians said:


> That's EXACTLY what they told me when my horse was stolen. It's a civil matter, we won't do anything. Good luck.
> I got him back, no thanks to those...Ahem.
> 
> Good luck, OP. I hope you learned a good lesson to keep everything in writing.
> I sort of wish I could go with you. I've been bored...


Yikes! Around here stealing a farm animal is a felony.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DimSum

WSArabians said:


> Oh, I won't really go into here, DimSum, but it was whole mess where they started to help (the guy admitted to the cop that he stole him) and then just left me high and dry. But...Different story.
> 
> I'm sure the OP will get her horse back. Hopefully still in good and sane condition.


Oh my friend, I didn't quote you to single you out...sorry. Just a general observation from reading threads in the legal area of the forum. Just wanted to clarify things in hope someone else reading here won't get caught in a bad situation. Which is why it is absolutely 100% necessary to get EVERYTHING in writing, even deals between friends and family


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## Cat

Subbing to find out how this turns out. Really hope you get your horse back smoothly!


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## WSArabians

DimSum said:


> Oh my friend, I didn't quote you to single you out...sorry. Just a general observation from reading threads in the legal area of the forum. Just wanted to clarify things in hope someone else reading here won't get caught in a bad situation. Which is why it is absolutely 100% necessary to get EVERYTHING in writing, even deals between friends and family


LOL
And hear I thought that you were reading my mind. :lol:


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## JustDressageIt

Wait, what? 
The horse is (was?) in training with Trainer. 
Person A talked you into leasing the horse to them. 
Where was the Trainer in all this? Or was the horse done with Trainer and just hanging out at the barn?
Are the bills in A's name? That's the only way they would be able to "prove" ownership. 
How long was the horse with Trainer? How long has A been riding the horse? Where is the barn owner in all this, or is the horse at A's property? 
This whole situation is not making any sense to me. I would not spend hours (ha that autocorrected to "horse") on a forum asking if I still legally owned the horse...
Anyways, call me a skeptic. Good luck to you, OP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## demonwolfmoon

DimSum said:


> Oh my friend, I didn't quote you to single you out...sorry. Just a general observation from reading threads in the legal area of the forum. Just wanted to clarify things in hope someone else reading here won't get caught in a bad situation. W*hich is why it is absolutely 100% necessary to get EVERYTHING in writing, even deals between friends and family *


True, having things in writing HELPS, but even if you HAVE something in writing the police can't FORCE the other person in a civil matter. Heck, they won't enforce COURT ORDERS from state to state. (Ask me how I know!) That's my point, if the OP isn't lucky enough to catch the person with their pants down, they can dance around saying "nah nah nah nah nah" all they want, and nothing will happen unless she takes them to civil court. 

I don't know whats wrong with people these days, it's really sad how no one can be trusted... =( smh


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## BigBenLoverforLife

Subbing to see what happens!


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## Kray012

We got her! No one even came out to talk to us... I'm sure they will be very unhapy when they go to get her tomorrow... if they will even notice (she was in a back pasture with about ten other horses).

She seems lame on her right front though :-(. I'm going to give her a few days and then work her to see if she actually is, she is VERY stressed! 

I still can't believe they were going to sell my horse to help with their own exenses.. They wanted to get some of their money back that they have paid for board, etc. Thats leasing... horses aren't cheap!


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## DimSum

Glad to hear it!


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## Casey02

Im really glad to hear you got your horse back!

I am confused though...They have 10 horses at their house, and she wanted to lease yours?!

And why on Gods green earth would you pay them because they were leasing your horse (that they STOLD!)


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## Kray012

Casey02 said:


> Im really glad to hear you got your horse back!
> 
> I am confused though...They have 10 horses at their house, and she wanted to lease yours?!
> 
> And why on Gods green earth would you pay them because they were leasing your horse (that they STOLD!)


I know!! To clear things up my horse never left the barn I originally had her in training at. The barn has over 50 horses on their property, but the person leasing my horse didn't own any other horses.


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## RunWalk

DraftyAiresMum said:


> That's where the extortion comes in. They probably don't have a potential buyer lined up. I would be willing to bet that if you called their bluff on it ("Ok, go ahead and sell her cuz I don't have the money"), they'd fold or come up with all sorts of excuses/lies.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think any statements that might allude to them having the right to sell the horse should be made.

Go get your horse. Don't play their games.


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## smrobs

Really glad to hear that you've got her home and safe.

Pictures of the gorgeous girl would be nice......hint, hint:wink:.


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## RunWalk

Casey02 said:


> Im really glad to hear you got your horse back!
> 
> I am confused though...They have 10 horses at their house, and she wanted to lease yours?!
> 
> And why on Gods green earth would you pay them because they were leasing your horse (that they STOLD!)


Logical explanation is all those horses were stolen.


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## KyMoMoF3CuTiEs

Glad you got your horse back!!! Hope her leg heals and all is fine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kray012

smrobs said:


> Really glad to hear that you've got her home and safe.
> 
> Pictures of the gorgeous girl would be nice......hint, hint:wink:.


Here is one from a while ago (its pretty horrible!)... I will post an updated pic soon!


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## smrobs

She is stunning!


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## Kray012

smrobs said:


> She is stunning!


Thank you!


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## Iseul

I'm glad you got her back!

I think it's time you send her to me on a gift basis with papers and a bill of..gift?Lol

I need one to start jumping with 

SShe's a beautiful girl, and I have no doubt one of the rich 4h jumper parents would snatch her up for 10k..Shoot, they offered 14k for a little black/white paint gelding who jumps and games, lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kray012

Iseul said:


> I'm glad you got her back!
> 
> I think it's time you send her to me on a gift basis with papers and a bill of..gift?Lol
> 
> I need one to start jumping with
> 
> SShe's a beautiful girl, and I have no doubt one of the rich 4h jumper parents would snatch her up for 10k..Shoot, they offered 14k for a little black/white paint gelding who jumps and games, lol.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hahaha thank you! Yeah I know I won't have much trouble selling her! She is such a good girl. 

If you were closer I would say you could come try her out!


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## natisha

JustDressageIt said:


> Wait, what?
> The horse is (was?) in training with Trainer.
> Person A talked you into leasing the horse to them.
> Where was the Trainer in all this? Or was the horse done with Trainer and just hanging out at the barn?
> Are the bills in A's name? That's the only way they would be able to "prove" ownership.
> How long was the horse with Trainer? How long has A been riding the horse? Where is the barn owner in all this, or is the horse at A's property?
> This whole situation is not making any sense to me. I would not spend hours (ha that autocorrected to "horse") on a forum asking if I still legally owned the horse...
> Anyways, call me a skeptic. Good luck to you, OP.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I had/have all those same questions. 
It's a good thing the horse is back where she should be but I would think this could have been easier by just calling whoever ran the barn & telling them that A was no longer allowed to have any contact with the horse. 
As a BO I know who owns who & would abide by the owner's wishes.


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## horsecrazygirl

Gorgeous girl! Glad you got her back.


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## Celeste

I'm so glad you got her back!

I would never free lease a horse that has a value of $10,000. If the horse is worth that much money, and you can't ride her, selling her is the logical thing to do. If something happened to her, you would be out the money.

She is a beauty!!


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## Cacowgirl

Glad you got her back-she is stunning.


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## AlexS

Glad that you got her back. 


I feel that you should now press extortion charges, if nothing else, it would stop them from claiming that you have stolen the horse by taking it back.


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## existentialpony

How is her lameness?  I would absolutely press charges (or something equally legal-scary, ha) if they hurt her in any way! She is just too gorgeous and sweet-looking.


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## sillyhorses

Kray012 said:


> Yes, from my understanding the owner of the farm knows we loaned her to them. There was never a bill of sale or transfer of ownership.
> 
> Also, I don't understand why they contacted me. If they thought it was their horse why did they contact me to tell me they were going to sell her and that if I wanted her back I would have to pay..? Makes no sense to me. If they "owned" her they wouldn't have contacted me.. they would have just sold her.


Question - so, this is your horse, and you had it "in training" somewhere - I suppose you "board" at this trainer's facility. You "loaned" the horse to the people - were they paying the board/training fees directly to the trainer or barn owner? Was the barn owner made aware by YOU that the situation regarding use of the horse had changed? Do YOU have a contract with your "trainer"? A "well known" barn should know better than to have verbal agreements with their clientele... especially not a barn that deals in $10,000.00 horses... 

Is there any other part of this story that is being left out? Were the people leasing her supposed to be paying "partial" board, and ended up paying full board because you didn't own up to your end of the deal? Something in this story isn't adding up to me... either the people are just nuts and you are making too big a deal out of something that someone who is clearly incompetent said, OR there is more to this story than is being shared... :/

Glad you ended up getting your gorgeous girl back, but your story really doesn't add up :/


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## nvr2many

So glad you got her back. Has anyone called or said anything to you since??


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## Cherie

If this person has been paying the training and board bills on her all of this time, "Yes!", they can claim they have a lien on her or the barn can claim they have a lien on her. In which case you would have to prove that you did not agree to keep paying the bills. In court, they would have to go to prove that you agreed to continue paying the training and board on the horse.

This is a 'civil matter' and not a 'criminal matter' if they have been paying all of the bills.

*In this situation, "Possession is 9/10 of the law".*

I would NOT call the sheriff or he will tell you to go to court and to leave the horse exactly where he is. (See ^^^) Just go unannounced and pick up your horse. Then THEY have to prove that you owe them for the training and board.

If they go to court and win, the court will order you to give the papers or pay all of the training and board bills.


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## wausuaw

I purchased a little filly a few years back for 200$ and took care of the mare throughout the pregnancy and nursing (they were in a bad financial place, and I didn't want my filly to have issues with malnutrition right off the bat). When she was 1, they came and took her (they already took their mare back) and told me I owed them 2000$ for her. They took her to an undisclosed location, so I couldn't take her back. 

As Cherie said, I was told possession was 9/10 of the law- and since was verbal, I couldn't do much about it. I won the court case (showed vet bills, feed bills, etc) but there was no way to FORCE them to give me my horse back, since they said they wanted to appeal (which they never did) . Took me 2 YEARS (after she was 3) to get her back, and by the time I got her back she was incredibly stunted (she hadn't grown an inch, she was kept in an area the size of an average backyard with 2 other horses, and was just very... Dead in the eyes, so to speak) The only way I got her back (even with winning in court) was I had to figure out where she was being kept, I went over there with a trailer when they weren't there and brought her back. They tried to take me to court for stealing my horse... But, again, possession is 9/10 of the law. I won, but my poor horse didn't. 

So, GO GET YOUR HORSE! And get it ASAP by any means necessary! 

And never, ever do a verbal agreement again. Done are the days where a hand shake works, there's just too many people you can't trust, even (in my case) people you have known for years.


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## wausuaw

(Didn't realize was such a dated post)


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## Critter sitter

Kray012 said:


> We got her! No one even came out to talk to us... I'm sure they will be very unhapy when they go to get her tomorrow... if they will even notice (she was in a back pasture with about ten other horses).
> 
> She seems lame on her right front though :-(. I'm going to give her a few days and then work her to see if she actually is, she is VERY stressed!
> 
> I still can't believe they were going to sell my horse to help with their own exenses.. They wanted to get some of their money back that they have paid for board, etc. Thats leasing... horses aren't cheap!


Glad you got her back.. Why does it seem that stuff like this always happens in TX? I would think they have laws for Stealing a horse cause that is what it really is if she had sold your mare.


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## Critter sitter

wausuaw said:


> (Didn't realize was such a dated post)


its less than a week old :?:


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## Cherie

It is not stealing. It is a 'disputed bill' if they would take it to court. It is up to the court to decide if the 'unofficial lessee' agreed to pay all of the bills without any ownership interest or if you were supposed to pay the bills. It is strictly a 'he said / she said' kind of deal without any signed paperwork that spells out who pays what and when and what 'rights' come with the 'free lease'. 

So, until someone files a suit (not likely in this case) possession is 9/10 of the law. Keep her locked up and post 'no trespassing' signs until you are sure they are 'over it'. 
Cherie


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## Celeste

With all the "they stole my horse" threads on this forum, I will be getting paperwork done for any kind of horse trades, sells, or leases that I am involved with in the future. It is amazing the stuff that goes on.


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## wausuaw

I suppose it's not dated. But, mostly that she got her horse back. February seems so far away! (Been a long month)


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## peppersgirl

Why on earth would you lease a $10k horse without anything in writing? ESPECIALLY to someone who guilt trips/ sob stories you into it...I have little patience for people who do that crap- and would be heading in the opposite direction once they honed in on my animal.. 

I am glad you got your horseback, But I sure hope you wisen up, and not let people take advantage of you.


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## dbarabians

It is a crime to steal livestock in the state of Texas. Texas has the most horses.
When my horse was taken in Jan a couple of vet bills and a coggins test proved ownership when the theif showed the sherriff deputy his bill if sale from the auction. I could prove that she was in my possesion during the preceding year. Shalom


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## JeepnGirl

I had a mare out on lease to this woman who was going to board her at a barn. I met with her, she rode my horse, decided she liked her well enough and wanted to go ahead with a lease. She had said if everything goes well, she'd like to buy the mare. I told her I was asking $3000 for her, but a lease would be a free care lease.

A week later I got a very weird e-mail saying I never paid for the mare when I got her, and that she liked the horse very much and if I was ok with it, "She would continue to provide a very good loving home for the mare."
Uhhh, I was there the next day with the trailer and picked up my horse - with my husband along with me.

I don't know what these people think. Do they think we are stupid and will just roll over? Did they think just because they were two hours away, that I wouldn't drop everything to get my horse?

When I was at her stable trying to get my mare into the trailer (that is another thing that I wonder what these people did in the week's span of time...), the woman told me she sure was sorry to see her leave, and her offer of just taking her still stands, because she couldn't possibly afford $3000. I asked her, what made her think she could try to pull something like this, and she never gave me an answer, just a nasty look. 

I had retained my mare's registration papers, and had made a lease contract. We had both signed it and there was a clause saying something about me being able to end the lease with out warning. People say that they don't mean anything, but at lease it was *something*...

Danielle


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## Sweeney Road

That's really...interesting. Was this in Washington state, and where was this person located (so I can avoid them too).


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## JeepnGirl

Hey Sweeney!
Is this the same Sweeney Road from the AH board?

And yes, in Washington. But the woman live in Seaside, OR. It was a good thing the drive there was nice. I didn't mind it going back, just minded *why* I had to go back.. lol

Danielle


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## Sweeney Road

JeepnGirl said:


> Hey Sweeney!
> Is this the same Sweeney Road from the AH board?
> 
> And yes, in Washington. But the woman live in Seaside, OR. It was a good thing the drive there was nice. I didn't mind it going back, just minded *why* I had to go back.. lol
> 
> Danielle


It is... .

If this person is in Seaside OR then I probably won't run into her. But you never know, you know how much horses can travel LOL.


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