# Buying A Horse With No Brand Inspection



## argrafton

I originally lived in Northern California where I bought my weanling Apha filly from a breeder in 2010. I was ignorant in not knowing about needing a brand inspection. I moved to Montana in 2011 with my horse and luckily never got in trouble for not having one. Now, 2 years later, I am moving her back to California and am JUST finding out about needing a brand inspection...I am told I can get her take away for not having one when I got her. This "breeder" apparently didn't think that was very important. Can I get one now? She is registered in my name. I am very worried and am in need of advice. Where do I go from here?


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## COWCHICK77

Yes you should have one, you get one in MT.


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## argrafton

COWCHICK77 said:


> Yes you should have one, you get one in MT.


 
But will they just give me one with no issues considering never having one?


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## Muriel

argrafton said:


> But will they just give me one with no issues considering never having one?


I just got a brand inspection in Idaho when I bought my KMH. I was talking to the inspector and she indicated (again in Idaho) you would be turned over for prosecution when you get the brand inspection. So yes, you may get in trouble, if you do it is like everything else, you own up to your own ignorance, pay the fine and move on. Good luck and get one done before moving to CA where it will likely be way more expensive.


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## COWCHICK77

argrafton said:


> But will they just give me one with no issues considering never having one?


I have never had to show a previous inspection to get a new one. Matter of fact I have never had to show proof of ownership.(I live in NV). I buy an annual every year. The gal I use comes out, writes up a description, notes brands or scars and I cut her a check.


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## Cat

Not all states require a brand inspection. If you live in Montana and need one to move back to California - how will they know you originally bought hte horse in California without a brand inspection?


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## COWCHICK77

When you cross the border into CA you HAVE to show your health papers, brand inspection and have an exact address of where you will be staying or moving to in CA. 
We were back and forth from NV to CA this spring shipping cattle and hauling our horses back and forth and at the port of entry we were required to aside and bring all of our paperwork inside. Of course you get around the port of entries, depends on where you are entering the state at.


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## argrafton

Here's what I'm looking at doing: Getting a BI for the purpose of traveling from Montana to California. Will they ask about where I got her? Or will they just leave it at that? COWCHICK77, did she need proof when she first did BI for you? Also, does anyone have any idea what the fines look like if it did come to that?


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## morganarab94

Stupid question maybe, but what is a brand inspection..?


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## COWCHICK77

argrafton said:


> Here's what I'm looking at doing: Getting a BI for the purpose of traveling from Montana to California. Will they ask about where I got her? Or will they just leave it at that? COWCHICK77, did she need proof when she first did BI for you? Also, does anyone have any idea what the fines look like if it did come to that?


No I never did have to show proof of ownership. But it may different up there. Since the horse is registered in your name I wouldn't worry about it.
Like you plan on doing, get a brand inspection for the purpose of crossing state lines. Get a Coggins and a health certificate from your vet. I keep all those things plus a photocopy of the registration papers in a binder that stays in the pickup. Then you come to the port of entry you are prepared and organized.

I don't know what the fines are, but supposedly they can seize your truck, trailer and livestock if caught without the inspection. 
This might answer some of your questions for MT
Montana Department of Livestock - Frequently Asked Questions

You might want to be clear on the states your traveling through as well.


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## COWCHICK77

I should add that you are supposed to show proof of ownership, like a bill of sale. But all the brand inspectors we have used, we know personally and knew are horses from coming out when we shipped truck loads of cattle. (which we were required to have a brand inspection on all cattle as well).
If I were you I would just call up a brand inspector, say you need an inspection to move across state lines to CA. If they ask for proof of ownership show them registration papers and/or the original bill of sale you got from the breeder. Shouldn't be a big deal. 

morganarab94- Almost all western states have a livestock dept that records brands for livestock and the paper trail that ensues for the purpose of anti-theft and disease control. Brand inspections are required for transportation of livestock out of districts and state lines, transfer of ownership and slaughter.


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## TessaMay

Wow, I have never heard of this before. Is it supposed to be required for all horse sales or just branded horses? I ask because when I looked it up I found that all cattle sold in my state are supposed to have a brand inspection done even if they aren't branded.


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## COWCHICK77

TessaMay said:


> Wow, I have never heard of this before. Is it supposed to be required for all horse sales or just branded horses? I ask because when I looked it up I found that all cattle sold in my state are supposed to have a brand inspection done even if they aren't branded.


Horses as well, branded or not.


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## argrafton

Thank you COWCHICK77 you have been a lot of help.

Does anyone even know what price range the fines may be in??

Also in addition, I finally got in touch with the breeder and she told me that where she was (Lakehead, Ca.), that BI aren't required. Any thoughts on that? If it's true that may help me a little but I still brought her here in the first place without one.


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## deserthorsewoman

As far is I know, BI is not required for horses in CA. Papered horse registered in your name, or a notarized Bill of Sale in case of an unpapered horse, plus of course required health certificate and current negative Coggins.
If you Google BI California, all info should come up.


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## argrafton

deserthorsewoman said:


> As far is I know, BI is not required for horses in CA. Papered horse registered in your name, or a notarized Bill of Sale in case of an unpapered horse, plus of course required health certificate and current negative Coggins.
> If you Google BI California, all info should come up.


 
Thank you! Hopefully that will help me out a little. Still need to figure out the original trip out to Montana...


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## deserthorsewoman

According to this, you need one anyway:
Montana Department of Livestock - Health Requirements


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## Cat

COWCHICK77 said:


> *When you cross the border into CA you HAVE to show your health papers, brand inspection and have an exact address of where you will be staying or moving to in CA. *
> We were back and forth from NV to CA this spring shipping cattle and hauling our horses back and forth and at the port of entry we were required to aside and bring all of our paperwork inside. Of course you get around the port of entries, depends on where you are entering the state at.


 
I thought you could get a Brand Inspection done upon entering a state that required one as long as you had the other required documentation and proof of ownership? A friend that moved out to Wyoming had to get one right after she crossed the state lines because she came from a state that didn't have brand inspectors so its was pretty much impossible to already have a brand inspection in hand before entering the state.


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## COWCHICK77

Cat said:


> I thought you could get a Brand Inspection done upon entering a state that required one as long as you had the other required documentation and proof of ownership? A friend that moved out to Wyoming had to get one right after she crossed the state lines because she came from a state that didn't have brand inspectors so its was pretty much impossible to already have a brand inspection in hand before entering the state.


As I understand it and I may be totally wrong, every states requirements are different, but you need to follow the requirements of state you are coming from. Since we were coming from NV into CA, I must have a NV brand inspection/transportation permit. 
The OP is coming from MT so she must follow the laws of MT brand inspection no matter if Idaho, Oregon or CA ask for it or not. If any of the states she will be travelling through requires a brand inspection and they ask to see one, she will need her MT one, not a brand inspection for the state she happens to be traveling through.
Once she moves to CA and travels she will have to follow CA inspection laws.

In your friends case that would be correct, again from how I understand it, since she came from a state that doesn't require a brand inspection or doesn't have a livestock dept. WY required her to have one to travel within the state and they obviously enforced it. 
Some states are stricter about it than others. NV is strict and in the eastern part of the state they will pull you over and check. 
Coming into CA over I80 they used to pull in all the hay trucks for hay inspection and you had to get stamped, but now they wave them all through(except for weight) and they pull in(at the bug check) all the pickup and trailers hauling livestock and you must show all your paperwork plus write down the exact address you are traveling to with your phone number.


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## tlkng1

Just out of curiosity, as us folks on the east coast don't have things like brand inspections  (Only a requirement for health certs and under 6 month old coggins), how would that work on say horses being transported by a commercial equine transportation company..say from east to west coast? (ie, a buyer on the west coast makes a purchase of a horse on the east coast and uses a commercial shipper to transport).


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## Corporal

I traveled to SD and CO for years without one. We always say the inspection spots off of I-90, but nobody would ever tell us how to get one. I finally got them for my current 3 horses in Keystone at the horse camp. It was really easy and I think it was pretty inexpensive. Just call around and get it done.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

There is no brand inspection requirement to ENTER California. Here's a link to the requirements: CDFA - AHFSS - AHB - Equine Entry Requirements

In Montana, before you can move the horse out, you need one. Here's the link to the state's site that tells you what you need and how to contact them to get an inspection: Montana Department of Livestock - Health Requirements


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## Celeste

"Brand Inspection is required:

Before removal from the County.
Before removal from the State.
Before a change of ownership (selling one head or more cattle or horses).
Before cattle or horses are sold at a livestock auction.
Before slaughter at a licensed establishment."


This looks like you will be ok just so you go on and get it done before you move the horse.


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## KigerQueen

Is it required in AZ? I never thought I needed one as my mare dose not have a mark on her.


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## Left Hand Percherons

When you live in a brand state a bill of sale or registration papers are *not proof** of ownership*. Period. What does proved ownership in a brand state is the brand inspection.

California is not a brand state therefore when your filly was sold, no brand inspection was requires to make the sale legal. When you moved to MT, by law you were supposed to obtain a brand inspection within 60 days. To get one, you needed just to provide the brand inspector with your original health certificate and coggins stating where the horse originated from. He would of written you one there on the spot. If you had some from another brand state, you would of provided your brand inspection from your old state and he would of written a new brand inspection for the state of MT. To leave the state of MT, you will need to get a BI. Dig out your paperwork when you moved her 2 years ago and they will straighten it out for you. The state of MT does not want your horse and will work with you to get things right. You want to do it by the book as you will travel through other brand states and you want as few hassles when traveling with horses. If you go through WY or UT is the sign says stop with all livestock trailers, by all means stop. It's rodeo season and 1,000s of horses and livestock go through each port of entry everyday. Play by the book. They will detain you at the port of entry.


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## Left Hand Percherons

KigerQueen said:


> Is it required in AZ? I never thought I needed one as my mare dose not have a mark on her.


AZ is a brand state so yes you do need one. All livestock branded or not need a BI. If you bought the mare in state, than the seller needed to provide one to complete the sale.


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## Left Hand Percherons

tlkng1 said:


> Just out of curiosity, as us folks on the east coast don't have things like brand inspections  (Only a requirement for health certs and under 6 month old coggins), how would that work on say horses being transported by a commercial equine transportation company..say from east to west coast? (ie, a buyer on the west coast makes a purchase of a horse on the east coast and uses a commercial shipper to transport).


If the horse is coming from a non brand state, that a BI is a non issue. You travel on your health certificate and coggins. If you end up in a brand state as your final destination, than you have a set amount of time to get a BI (typically 60 days and costs less than $20 for all states). Show proof of where the horse originated with the HC and coggins and you will obtain a BI. A BI is proof of ownership in a brand state. When you live in a brand state, by law, if you travel more than 75 miles from home with your horse, you need to have a brand inspection or permanent travel card with you. You often need them to unload or load up at a showground.

If the horse is coming from a non brand state, traveling through brand states and ending up in CA or WA (only non brand states for horses in the west) you just go about things like nothing. SD and WY do have a travel BI requirement (nothing more than revenue enhancement) but as I understand it it is for horses that are staying in the state for trailriding, rodeo and showing not for travel through.


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## nvr2many

Oregon is not a brand state for horses.


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## CowboyBob

I live in Montana and do a good amount of buying and selling horses, brand inspections are pretty important. It not much different from your title for your car. 

Now, I moved to Montana 7ish years ago with my mare from Indiana, with no brand inspection. 4 or 5 years ago I traded her for a younger horse and I had to take her in to get a brand inspection for her. The inspector wasn't very happy and told me I would be getting a "nice" letter for the Brand Inspection Office for bringing an horse into the state without a BI. They gave me a BI mostly the problem comes with your horse is branded, if you horse is slick/not branded. If the horse is branded then that is a big problem.


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## KigerQueen

The owner never got a brand inspection (heck he did not even believe in a vet unless it was bleeding -_-') so can I still obtain one? I never knew you needed a brand inspection. I don't know if my friend's horses have them for their horses 0.0


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## Left Hand Percherons

KigerQueen said:


> The owner never got a brand inspection (heck he did not even believe in a vet unless it was bleeding -_-') so can I still obtain one? I never knew you needed a brand inspection. I don't know if my friend's horses have them for their horses 0.0


You're not alone but you need to do some backtracking. You might have intentions of owning this mare her entire life or staying in AZ but you never know. Did the previous owner raise her? That's the easy route. You get the BI to issue a certificate for the sale of a home raised horse. Did she ever go through a public sale? (they automatically issue the transfer with the purchase). Does the previous owner have a BI but never bothered to get you one? Again easy if he can produce the old BI. Typically the seller pays for the BI but well worth $20 out of your pocket to clear things up.

In my experience with brand states, I think they have done a poor job in getting the information out to non large producing livestock owners. Cattle and dairy producers deal with them just about on a weekly basis so they know and understand the laws backwards and forwards but the parent who buys 2 horses for the kids doesn't get the same information unless the seller is knowledgeable in the states brand laws as well. The internet give us access to the information but if you don't know what you need to be looking for all that information doesn't do you much good.

Start with the old owner. If you can't get anywhere with him than call the BI for your county and get advise from him on how to proceed. The state of AZ does not want your horse nor can they afford to feed her so they are going to work with you and get things ironed out. Dig up old vet records that show length of ownership, registration papers... anything that creates a paper trail.


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## argrafton

Just to let everyone know, I called the brand inspector out and all he required was proof of ownership in which I showed him registration papers and all was good! Thank you everyone for your help!


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## stevenson

Your horse is obviously branded, and proof of owner ship should be able to prove with her registration papers. I guess you can get a brand inspection in the state you are currently in. 
Also be sure to have current coggins and other vaccines.


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## COWCHICK77

It doesn't make any difference if the horse is branded or not, the horse is coming from MT, which is a brand state(like NV) and it is required that you have one. Whether you get pulled over or asked for it at a state line or not it doesn't matter, your supposed to have it. Call me paranoid but after being pulled over and asked for BI's I get one.
I have used registration papers, old brand inspections and bill of sales for proof of ownership whether it is right or wrong, it is truly up to the individual brand inspector. Luckily, like I have said before, we have used all of the brand inspectors in our district at some point or another and a have seen our horses(and none of them had fresh brands ..LOL)

As far as CA is concerned, no it is not a brand state, BUT since you(the OP) came from a brand state you need to have one in the event that they ask for it at a port of entry. We just dealt with this all spring going back and forth from NV and CA. I have been through both the Truckee and Hallelujah Jct. POE several times this year and each time have been called inside to show all my paperwork. Perhaps I look suspicious? LOL!

Anyhow, I am glad the OP got her BI and hope she has a safe trip!


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