# Looking for Info on a Stallion



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

found one itty bitty pic of him - 









Scroll down to lot #63. Oklahoma Paint Horse Club - Land Rush Catalog 2010

It looks to me like you have a 25% chance of an OLWS foal this spring...


----------



## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Even from this tiny photo of him, I'd bet the farm that he's frame :-(









Couldn't find anything useful about his HYPP status, though.


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

And he's NH. Sorry dreamcatcher.

http://www.oklahomapinto.com/StallionAuctionPages/Obvious_Fancy_Gun_09.pdf


----------



## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Interesting... the photo from that PDF doesn't match the one from the Oklahoma Paint Horse Club that Nd and I linked to... :-?


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

I can see a white leg in the small pics... wonder if one or the other is "flipped" if that makes any sense.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

NdAppy said:


> found one itty bitty pic of him -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I found that pic and the Landrush ads, but I'm not seeing where they disclose his status? He looks frame to me too, and I wouldn't have done this breeding without test results to back up my decision.

I didn't want to bother his owner but since I can't find any disclosures anywhere, I will bug her to see what I'm looking at. HE is also Impressive bred all over the place and I want to know HYPP too, praying he's not N/H but since he's a halter horse and heavily Impressive, I'm not holding my breath on that one either.


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Another picture of the stallion from the owners FB page -


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

NdAppy said:


> And he's NH. Sorry dreamcatcher.
> 
> http://www.oklahomapinto.com/StallionAuctionPages/Obvious_Fancy_Gun_09.pdf




since it doesn't seem you saw this Dreamcatcher. It's a PDF ad of the stallion that discloses his HYPP status.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

NdAppy said:


> And he's NH. Sorry dreamcatcher.
> 
> http://www.oklahomapinto.com/StallionAuctionPages/Obvious_Fancy_Gun_09.pdf


 
Wellllllllllllll eff me runnin'! I can't get the page to open so I can read it myself, but trust what you're telling me. That's just the epitome of responsible breeding, ain't it? 

Guess I'm gonna wear out my knees praying for a healthy foal! SCHYJT!:evil:


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

I'll screen cap it for you DA hold on!


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Can you see this now DA?


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Thanks Appy, I can see it now. Like I said, eff me runnin'! WHY would anyone breed frame to frame and then throw in N/H Hypp on top of it? JEEEEEZUS! 

Welp, mare-ish is gonna get her tail pulled today to make sure she's N/N. For the love of God! And I know people still do N/H to N/H, I was just at a show and these folks had this gorgeous futurity colt and he was N/H and they told me they were 'debating' breeding him to their N/H mare but were weighing the odds. WTH? What's to weigh? AAAUUUUUUUUUUUGH!


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Keep us Udated DA. I have everything crossed that the foal wins the genetic lottery and misses being an OLWS afflicted foal AND HYPP positive.


----------



## SaddleStrings (May 15, 2012)

Oh Man! I'll cross my fingers for you DA, hope it's a healthy foal come Feb. Some people these days..... :?


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

NdAppy said:


> Keep us Udated DA. I have everything crossed that the foal wins the genetic lottery and misses being an OLWS afflicted foal AND HYPP positive.


Well, it may sound cold, but actually if he's N/H the best thing that can happen as far as I'm concerned is for him to end up OWLS because then he'll be put to sleep and it won't be a problem for anyone. I say "he" generically because then it also makes all the decisions easy, just geld him if he's N/H or if he doesn't end up being a lethal foal but a carrier, snip snip. So cross fingers for a colt too. 

JEEZ! Well, I like the mare a lot, so there's that consolation.


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

I totally understand DA. I'm just hoping the foal lucks out and misses being either. I don't think my post before made sense. :lol: that is how my day has been going.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

NdAppy said:


> I totally understand DA. I'm just hoping the foal lucks out and misses being either. I don't think my post before made sense. :lol: that is how my day has been going.


LOL, no it made perfect sense and I'm hoping for the same thing. Just sayin' how I feel about the genetic soup that someone has dished up for this foal.....BLEH!


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

I'm trying to find a website that I had seen in the past to show you that some APHA breeders just don't care... Went on about how it was less than 25% chance and how they had no problem breeding carriers to carriers (talking about frame here). I also know of people who have BRAGGED about the amount of OLWS foals they have had through the years... honestly it makes me ill.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

NdAppy said:


> I'm trying to find a website that I had seen in the past to show you that some APHA breeders just don't care... Went on about how it was less than 25% chance and how they had no problem breeding carriers to carriers (talking about frame here). I also know of people who have BRAGGED about the amount of OLWS foals they have had through the years... honestly it makes me ill.


Me too. I feel the same way about SCIDS in Arabians. Wouldn't even consider breeding a carrier to a carrier. Or the thought process of, "Well, as long as I only use clear stallions, I don't need to test my mares.". UMMMMM what if the stallion owner LIES? Have you made them show you the actual test results? I bet not. AAUUUUUUUUGH again!


----------



## SunnyMeadeFarm (Sep 3, 2012)

Sometimes the showman/woman who care more about fame than their horses just get dumb and don't care. Its really sad, But lets hope your mare isn't N/H!! jeeze. 
_But_ on the positive side, the sire seems to be pretty good at his showing, says hes 4 times pinto world champ, and world supreme halter. That won't look to bad on that babies pedigree


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

SunnyMeadeFarm said:


> Sometimes the showman/woman who care more about fame than their horses just get dumb and don't care. Its really sad, But lets hope your mare isn't N/H!! jeeze.
> _But_ on the positive side, the sire seems to be pretty good at his showing, says hes 4 times pinto world champ, and world supreme halter. That won't look to bad on that babies pedigree


 
I dug way way back in the mares pedigree and she doesn't have a drop of Impressive in her, HALLELUJAH! So, we know she's N/N, Thank God! I was terrified that they may have done a crazy cross there as well. 

I don't think it was a matter of not caring with this lady who owns the mare. The old time breeders tended to always blame the other side of the pedigree when things weren't ideal. My first exposure to that was an old QH breeder whose stallion had a pedigree KNOWN really well to produce Frame and throw lots of extra white. Every single foal who had "too much white" and couldn't be registered, he'd say something about how the mare screwed things up and wouldn't hear a word about his stallion. So when this lady told me she didn't know the mare's status but that she had lost a foal to Lethal White, and very quickly assured me it was the other stallion's fault.....I knew. So I just said, MMMHMMM, and went on about my business. She probably really does think it's the stallion's fault, since the mare never 'had any trouble with any other stallion'. She probably doesn't understand frame.

SO! I only have to worry about a lethal of the OLWS, and not worry about getting H/H on top of it. It's 50/50 whether I'll get N/H so I'm kind of figuring I probably will, everything can't be perfect can it? LOL! 

So praying we only get one copy of the frame gene, I can live with the rest of it. I told my husband I was figuring it would be a Frame, N/H, filly because to get a colt that I could geld would just be too easy. :lol:

The stallion is gorgeous, and if he wasn't N/H, and I had a Tobi mare with no Frame, I'd use him in a minute. But I've dealt with N/H and H/H horses and once I learned all about Impressive, I won't breed to anything but N/N when it's my choice of stallion.


----------



## Tarpan (May 6, 2012)

Wow, that makes me so mad for you. How irresponsible of the person who bred her to that stallion. I hope this doesn't end in heartbreak. If only there was a way to do amniocentesis to test for it in utero like with human babies!


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Tarpan said:


> Wow, that makes me so mad for you. How irresponsible of the person who bred her to that stallion. I hope this doesn't end in heartbreak. If only there was a way to do amniocentesis to test for it in utero like with human babies!


Unfortunately, aborting this late in the game wouldn't be an option anyhow, so better to just wait and see at this point. Don't be too mad at her, she's no different than a lot of old timers. I wouldn't have done the breeding, but I bought the mare knowing at least that the OLWS was an issue and since I also knew the stallion was a halter stallion, I had a pretty good clue about the HYPP too, which is why I started digging. I didn't have to buy the mare, but I liked her better than anything else I saw. I actually went looking for a BAY mare with not a lot of white..........OOOPS! But I'm a sucker for chestnut and chrome....

So, the deed is done and somewhere around Feb 14, I'll find out about this foal. I have:
50% Chestnut/Overo
25% Lethal White
25% Solid Chestnut
50% N/N for HYPP
50% N/H for HYPP
50% Filly
50% Colt

So! if things were perfect I'd get a Chestnut Overo, Colt that's N/N, which means I'll probably get a solid Chestnut who hides the Frame, filly that's N/H......LOL! As long as we dodge the lethal white bullet, I'll consider myself lucky.


----------



## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

If it makes you feel better, the guy in my avatar is an Ecaho son and out of a Bey Shah granddaughter, both who happen to be CA Carriers. He had the same 25% chance your foal does, and he came out CA N/N. Rare, but it happens. 
Keeping my fingers crossed for you.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

WSArabians said:


> If it makes you feel better, the guy in my avatar is an Ecaho son and out of a Bey Shah granddaughter, both who happen to be CA Carriers. He had the same 25% chance your foal does, and he came out CA N/N. Rare, but it happens.
> Keeping my fingers crossed for you.


 
I know it can happen WS, just not counting on it. 

Just for fun, I did a Hypomating on Allbreed and looking at the sire & dam's pedigrees combined, it doesn't say a real good reason to have done this breeding to me. I know you can't breed paper to paper and expect stellar results, but looking at sire and dam and seeing frame I sure wouldn't have done it, and now looking at the pedigrees I can say I still don't see a reason to have taken the chance. 

All Breed Pedigree Query

And bear in mind, that while the sire does have a line in his pedigree that doesn't show Impressive, it goes to Conclusive who is an Impressive son. I don't think I've ever seen a more heavily line bred Impressive horse.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Besides the fact that I liked the mare best of all I've looked at looks wise, here's what you get when you put her with my cremello stud who's N/N and now for sure will be tested for Frame, just in case. He's solid but I won't take any chances. 
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/index.php?search_bar=hypomating&query_type=hypomating&h=&hypo_sire=Skip+N+My+Assets&hypo_dam=Bright+As+A+Star&g=5&all=No&cellspacing=0&cellpadding=0&border=0&f=1&p=0&c=0&text_color=000000


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Cant see them without being a subscriber DA.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

NdAppy said:


> Cant see them without being a subscriber DA.


 
Oh oooops, didn't realize that! I'll see what I can come up with.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Looks like I have to link to each horse individually. 

Sire:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/obvious+fancy+gun

Dam:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/bright+as+a+star

My Stallion:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/skip+n+my+assets

Let's see if that works!


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

DA I can't remember if you have posted or not but your guy has been tested as NN right?


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

NdAppy said:


> DA I can't remember if you have posted or not but your guy has been tested as NN right?


 
Yes, he's N/N and clear of all the hereditary nasties, except I didn't bother to test for frame because I wasn't thinking of buying or breeding a paint mare. I've already pulled his tail hair and will send it in on Monday to find out his status on that. If I find he carries frame, I'll sell the mare (dammmmmmit I do not want to have to do that) after she foals and has weaned. I realllly like this mare, so I'm gonna hope real hard he's not hiding the frame gene from me.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Finally got around to taking some pics of Bright As A Star, aka Honey Boo Boo


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

She's pretty DA.

On your stud, I would update Allbreed just so I quit asking. :rofl: I remember asking you shortly after you got your stud :rofl:

*wiggles eye brows* you should breed her to CCH's stud lol


----------



## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Beautiful mare fingers crossed no HYPP and a healthy baby.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

NdAppy said:


> She's pretty DA.
> 
> On your stud, I would update Allbreed just so I quit asking. :rofl: I remember asking you shortly after you got your stud :rofl:
> 
> *wiggles eye brows* you should breed her to CCH's stud lol


CCH's stud?


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Smokes Navajo!


















He is NN for frame.  Smokes Navajo - Home


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

He's lovely but I'm actually not into pintos or Paints that much. I am really all about the dilutes and the Pally & Buckskins don't like 'excessive' white. LIKE THERE EVER COULD BE TOO MUCH! HAH! He does have a LOVELY athletic pedigree.


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

hehehe Yep knew you were in dilutes, so it was kind of tongue in cheek.


----------



## equinelyn (Dec 15, 2010)

I hope you get a healthy baby. Post pics and keep us posted!


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Well, we're looking at a Valentine's baby, so it will be a while, but I certainly will post how this turns out.


----------



## jbolt (Jan 1, 2012)

dreamcatcher, i am in the pheonix area and would love to be updated on this baby. if he/she makes it, id be interested in possibly buying especially a little gelding hint hint lol


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

jbolt said:


> dreamcatcher, i am in the pheonix area and would love to be updated on this baby. if he/she makes it, id be interested in possibly buying especially a little gelding hint hint lol


Hi JBolt, well I'll certainly update this thread when the foal arrives. I'm praying for a little gelding.......errrrrrr colt so I can make a gelding. THAT'S a whole new frame of mind! I'm used to praying for fillies, in the Arab world unless it's a superstar, nobody wants a colt and geldings are pretty worthless. It's nice to be working with a breed that appreciates a good gelding. :lol:


----------



## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

NdAppy said:


> Smokes Navajo!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hot **** that is one fine looking chuck of horse flesh!!


----------



## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

subbing


----------



## sommsama09 (Oct 28, 2010)

Subbing, can't wait to see her foal. Hoping for a clean sweep for you! Just finished a 10 page study on LWO.. horrible.. sending good vibes your way. :smile:


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

sommsama09 said:


> Subbing, can't wait to see her foal. Hoping for a clean sweep for you! Just finished a 10 page study on LWO.. horrible.. sending good vibes your way. :smile:


LWO SUCKS! I can't imagine deliberatley breeding 2 carriers, but then again, I wouldn't breed 2 N/H HYPP horses either. Heck, given my druthers, I won't breed to one N/H carrier. I've dealt with HYPP and don't need that in my barn. 

Do you have any good pics of Lethal White foals, so I can study and prepare myself to know what to look for just in case?


----------



## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Oh geez. I just read this thread for the first time. This definitely just sucks. Big hopeful vibes from me.

Here are some pictures of a lethal white filly.
Mountain Music: On the wings of an Angel

Or him


----------



## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

My pally and buckskins like excessive white


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Poseidon said:


> Oh geez. I just read this thread for the first time. This definitely just sucks. Big hopeful vibes from me.
> 
> Here are some pictures of a lethal white filly.
> Mountain Music: On the wings of an Angel
> ...


The Wings of an Angel article was informative. Thanks for posting that. Now we just wait. I figure we have 3 out of 4 chances this foal will be healthy, so crossing fingers and praying til Feb!


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

NdAppy said:


> She's pretty DA.
> 
> On your stud, I would update Allbreed just so I quit asking. :rofl: I remember asking you shortly after you got your stud :rofl:
> 
> *wiggles eye brows* you should breed her to CCH's stud lol


 
It's interesting. I've updated Allbreed a couple of times and the 'notes' where you put the things like that just won't show. I looked at his daddy and he's N/N and it doesn't show on him either. Must be a little glitch.


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

It's showing just N/N N/N in the notes now.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

NdAppy said:


> It's showing just N/N N/N in the notes now.


 
LOL, well, guess it just took some time for the 'puter to catch up with my flyin' fingers!


----------

