# Any clue what is wrong with his hoof? (Red frog)



## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

That's not something that I've ever seen in a horse, but I'm not a foot expert. Maybe others will think differently, but if my horse's foot looked like that and he was off on it I'd be getting the vet out ASAP. Better than not and causing permanent damage.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

looks like he ripped the "dead" frog tissue clean of. I would dry bandage him, like, yesterday, and call a vet out, and if it's only to make sure he's got tetanus coverage. 
actually, it looks like if it was cut off.


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## hermonine (Feb 10, 2012)

So dry bandage and call the vet. Thanks. My farrier did trim him a few weeks ago, I wasn't present and he has a new assistant (maybe something went wrong there). He always has a slight limp for he has an old injury on his other back leg making him walk weird overall. On top of this this injured leg is majorly toed in so he always walks weird on it anyway and to add onto that he has really bad arthritis so needless to say when we saw him miss stepping a few weeks ago we did not think too much of it for that is normal for him, he is never not miss stepping. This week he started walking worse which grabbed our attention that something else could be going on now as well. When I cleaned his hooves these few weeks I did not notice the bruising due to all the dirt covering it, only after hosing it down today did I see this. Poor old man, it was already hard walking, now to add this onto it all. Thanks for the help I will do as you advised.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

you're welcome 
But, are you sure nobody cut that piece off? it looks rather clean cut at the back.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

It looks to me like the farrier pared the frog off. Doing that is not uncommon in a shod horse but shouldn't be done with a barefoot horse. Did you push on it? If you didn't, you might want to next time you're out there. If necessary, use your hoof pick to push on it. If he's flinchy about it, I would likely call the vet. If he's not flinchy about it and there's no heat in the foot/leg, I would probably take a wait and see approach. He might have stepped on a rock after the farrier visited and busted a vessel in there and bruised it. If that's what happened, then it's possible he could abscess.


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## acorn (Nov 27, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> looks like he ripped the "dead" frog tissue clean of. I would dry bandage him, like, yesterday, and call a vet out, and if it's only to make sure he's got tetanus coverage.
> actually, it looks like if it was cut off.


 I thought it looked sliced off but can't imagine how a horse would do that.


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## hermonine (Feb 10, 2012)

smrobs said:


> It looks to me like the farrier pared the frog off. Doing that is not uncommon in a shod horse but shouldn't be done with a barefoot horse. Did you push on it? If you didn't, you might want to next time you're out there. If necessary, use your hoof pick to push on it. If he's flinchy about it, I would likely call the vet. If he's not flinchy about it and there's no heat in the foot/leg, I would probably take a wait and see approach. He might have stepped on a rock after the farrier visited and busted a vessel in there and bruised it. If that's what happened, then it's possible he could abscess.


He is barefoot and my farrier usually does a great job with no problems. This is the first time anything bad like this has happened making me wonder if it was his new assistant that did this. His last assistant he had cleaned the frog out with that scrapper thing while he did the rest. It makes sense that if the frog was cut short then he stepped on a rock he could of broke a blood vessel. 

I do not have hoof testers but I did squeeze the heel, pushing in on it, and he did not flinch. I also did not feel any abnormal heat in the leg or hoof, no swelling in the leg either, which is a relief. So far we just dry bandaged it and are going to keep him on stall rest and see how it goes. Thanks for all the help!


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## hermonine (Feb 10, 2012)

Would soaking it in warm water with Epson salt help any?


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I honestly don't know if it would help but I don't think it could hurt if you have the time and want to try it.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

That gave me a heart attack. subbing!


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

That kind of looks like a thrush infection that went really bad... like maybe turned into something much worse? But I'm not sure.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

I think you should call your farrier and vet ASAP. That doesn't look good, and almost looks intentional but it could just be the way the picture it showing up for me.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Oh my goodness, that looks awful! D: Subbing, to see what's up.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I wouldn't soak just yet. Is he more comfortable with the bandage? If so, then he needs to grow frog, that's all. if he's lame the same with bandage, it could be a bruise or abscess. He could theoretically have found a piece of glass in the ground and sliced the frog off... I've seen that before, just not that deep and bloody.


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## jcraig10 (Sep 14, 2012)

Another interesting thread to sub to for the outcome.


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## Northernstar (Jul 23, 2011)

DancingArabian said:


> I think you should call your farrier and vet ASAP. That doesn't look good, and almost looks intentional but it could just be the way the picture it showing up for me.


^Definately^, and I'd be calling the farrier _while the vet is on the way_ to boot! That looks bad, and by golly, if I were a farrier and had a possibly incompetent assistant (only an assumption), I'd want to know. Despite that, I'd get it checked immediately - so glad you discovered it, poor boy! 

**Loosie?!?!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Guys, with the even-ness of the V-shape of the cut, I'd be my right arm that the farrier (or assistant) simply used a hoof knife to pare the frog away.

Skip to 1:20 in this video and you'll see exactly what caused that part of it only whoever did it on the OP's horse took a lot more off.


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## quinn (Nov 8, 2013)

subbing...and sending well wishes to you and your horse!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

smrobs said:


> ...I'd *be* my right arm that the farrier...


Sorry, that's supposed to say BET my right arm.


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## GreenBackJack (Feb 23, 2012)

Well now that I'm going to have nightmares I might as well sub too. 
Sheesh! I do hope he's going to be ok, poor baby!


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

Subbing, definitely interested in this..Might have to find my notebook and 5" binder full of farrier stuff and see if there's anything about injured frogs..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

When I saw the OP's pic, my first thought was "Why did someone cut that poor horse's frog like that and so deep?" My next thought was, "Why isn't it actually bleeding?" 

I don't think that is ripped off -- it's too clean and sharp. It really looks like it was cut purposefully and I'd be mighty ticked off if that is indeed the case. 

I would not be inclined to soak it. If it's been cut, it needs to heal and toughen up. Soaking it will soften it. I would keep it clean and apply antibiotic cream on it. Probably/possibly put a diaper on it with duct tape. Every day, at least once - wash and rediaper. If no improvement in the first 36 hours, I would call the vet and farrier.


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## caseymyhorserocks (Apr 5, 2010)

Subbing!


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## SEAmom (Jan 8, 2011)

Subbing! I'd love to know the outcome! I hope the poor guy feels better soon!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

They definitely cut his frog too short. I wouldn't be too worried- my horse stepped on a broken glass bottle on a trail ride. I pulled the glass pieces out of her hoof and hand walked her home. Only once I was home I realized there was another piece in her frog that I didn't see, as it was in deep. The vet had to come and debride her frog. She used iodine to disinfect the hoof, said to soak (in iodine) I think. That was many years ago so I don't remember all the details, but my mare was fine.

Overall, I wouldn't be too concerned, but I would call the vet and ask if you should soak it or not.


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## hermonine (Feb 10, 2012)

Well, my moms horse is doing better. We had to double pad it (like a pillow), keeping it all together with vet wrap and a piece of duck-tape but he is starting to put pressure on it and walk. I saw him take a few normal steps the other day which is a relief. Stall rest is doing him good but it is going to be a long recovery till it grows back. Thanks everyone for all the help!


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## asrialnorton (Dec 22, 2008)

Id say keep it clean and dry and call the vet. It looks like he ripped his frog clean off. I seriously doubt a decent farrier would do that. I would think the main risk is infection.


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## Rialto (Dec 12, 2013)

To me, it looks like they trimmed right down to the frog coruim! In dissection class, we overtrimmed hooves on cadavers to expose the frog coruim, or cell producing sensitive structure of the frog. It is very red, slightly spongy, has nerves, and bleeds when you cut into it. 

Ouch! I would get a new farrier.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

So, have you had any communication with the farrier about his "helper?" Are they taking any responsibility?


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## hermonine (Feb 10, 2012)

Rialto said:


> To me, it looks like they trimmed right down to the frog coruim! In dissection class, we overtrimmed hooves on cadavers to expose the frog coruim, or cell producing sensitive structure of the frog. It is very red, slightly spongy, has nerves, and bleeds when you cut into it.
> 
> Ouch! I would get a new farrier.


 
It feels really really soft but it is not bleeding outside just bloody red internal in the frog. I have had this farrier for awhile now and he always does such a great job, trimming my horses with no problems, this is the first time something bad has happened. I find it very ironic it happens right when he gets a new assistant. He had his old assistants cleaning out the horses hooves and cleaning up the frog with that hoof knife thing before the farrier trims them. I think the new assistant messed up bad on my moms horse. His other back foot looks worse with more hoof and frog missing, I was surprised he showed no signs of limping and/or pain on that one was well.


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## hermonine (Feb 10, 2012)

NorthernMama said:


> So, have you had any communication with the farrier about his "helper?" Are they taking any responsibility?


 Nope we have not tried to get ahold of my farrier yet. So far we have been just busy with trying to get him all healed up first. Also, it's a pain just trying to get ahold of my farrier. He is very popular and is always booked and very hard to get ahold of.


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## hermonine (Feb 10, 2012)

My moms horse took a turn for the worse. Unfortunately a huge rain storm has been threw here for the last couple days and mucked up the pens. His poor feet which are very sensitive right now with little hoof protection could not handle it and he now has what we think is mud fever in now both of his hind feet. His other hind foot showed signs of being cut short like this one as well but without the major pain but was still vulnerable to the elements. Now after so much improvement he can't walk or even stand still without shifting his back legs from side to side. Now we are treating and padding 2 back feet....uck....We moved him to a dryer stall and are trying to keep his feet dry and clean to treat the mud fever. We are trying to get in contact with our vet to see if there is anything else he wants us to do. Poor old mans going to have two back duck tapped booted feet now.


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## IndiesaurusRex (Feb 23, 2011)

hermonine said:


> My moms horse took a turn for the worse. Unfortunately a huge rain storm has been threw here for the last couple days and mucked up the pens. His poor feet which are very sensitive right now with little hoof protection could not handle it and he now has what we think is mud fever in now both of his hind feet. His other hind foot showed signs of being cut short like this one as well but without the major pain but was still vulnerable to the elements. Now after so much improvement he can't walk or even stand still without shifting his back legs from side to side. Now we are treating and padding 2 back feet....uck....We moved him to a dryer stall and are trying to keep his feet dry and clean to treat the mud fever. We are trying to get in contact with our vet to see if there is anything else he wants us to do. Poor old mans going to have two back duck tapped booted feet now.


Mud fever another term for what those in the US call "scratches", a bacterial infection on the legs. Are you thinking of thrush? It's a fungal infection of the hooves (although most on here will realise it's not just feet :lol, and stinks to high heaven.

Feel really sorry for your boy! I would keep him in a stable where it is dry as possible, try and keep his feet as dry and aired as possible, and possibly a little pain relief if you have any bute on hand.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

hermonine said:


> He is very popular and is always booked and very hard to get ahold of.


He won't be for long........


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## hermonine (Feb 10, 2012)

Another turn for the worse....woke up this morning and now he is colicing.....so I have a horse who now can barely walk who is now colicing....uck....why!!!


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## SEAmom (Jan 8, 2011)

Poor guy! I hope things turn out okay for him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hermonine (Feb 10, 2012)

Celeste said:


> He won't be for long........


 I know right!!! If I ever get the time we will have to call him to warn him. If it is his new assistant he needs to know before he hurts anybody else.


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## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

Oh dear he is not having a very good time of it. I hope he gets better!!


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## GreenBackJack (Feb 23, 2012)

Oh for heavens sake! 
Please get the vet out for him ASAP. It may well be the pain that is causing him to colic. *just my uneducated guess. 
Is he in a deeply padded stall? He needs to have his pain eased until his feet start to heal some. All that pressure on them has simply got to be excruciating! Give him some pain meds of some sort and keep those poor little feet padded. 
Gosh this is just aweful and I personally want to beat the living snot out of both the farrier and assistant. 
I'm really praying for your boy, that the colic is very mild and that he is doing better soon!
keep us updated please.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

It sounds to me like you really need a vet at this point, especially with the colic.


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

Celeste said:


> He won't be for long........


Seriously. I sure hope that you have left messages with him and that he tries to make this right. You can bet that he won't have a lot of clients left if those horrible photos of your horse's feet get passed around...

I'm sorry to hear that he is having all of these troubles. :-( Call the vet, keep him as comfortable as you can, and I hope he starts feeling much better very soon!


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## HollyBubbles (Jun 22, 2009)

Definitely high time your mums horse see's the vet I think OP.. Poor poor horse :-( He at least needs some pain killers of some description at the very minimum.

He's probably gone and coliced due to 1. The pain and stress of having such sore hooves, and 2. everything else that he's going through at the moment, including the weather.

How are you wrapping and padding his hooves? I would recommend incorporating nappies and duct tape into your hoof wraps if you haven't already.. Wrap as you normally would with your padding and vetwrap or whatever your using, then put a nappy over top (like you would put it on a child, do it up over his hoof) and duct tape over the nappy, believe me when I say that mix is brilliant, I use that method when dealing with abscesses in winter and it has always kept hooves dry for me thanks to the duct tape, plus the nappy provides a little more padding also.

Is it mud fever or thrush? I got confused in your post on that one :lol:

And is he on any hard feed at all? Just thinking at this stage he might benefit from a good quality mineral powder (preferably produced locally if possible, then it's made specifically for what your grounds are likely to be lacking).. And a good warm mash might just make him feel a little better while he's eating it.

Poor thing, I hope you get this sorted soon


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

Id call your farrier and send him pics of this poor horse's feet.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

I understand it may be difficult to arrange a time for the farrier to come out, but have you left messages for him? If so, he should be responding. If not, I'd let everyone know what happened and that you are not receiving any feedback from the farrier. Shameful.


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## caseymyhorserocks (Apr 5, 2010)

I would call a vet. If you cant get a hold of your farrier, start looking around for another good one to manage your horses hooves until you can get your farrier to your place.


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

Subbing.. not even sure what to thinks. Hope the best for your boy1


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## hermonine (Feb 10, 2012)

Oh, we for sure have called out the vet but he will not be able to come out till sometime tomorrow to look at our poor guy. His colic is minor (hard to notice if you didn't know the slightest signs). We are pretty sure his pain caused his colic. It is not too bad. He is perky (well perky as a horse in pain can be), he wants to eat, he is pooping (what is left over to poop), he is making stomach noises, but he is very uncomfortable and has that sucked in tight belly. We walk shortly every few hours and on top of this the vet said to give him some bute for the pain. His hooves on the other hand look worse. All four of them are blood red and the base of the frog looks like an apple core (all split open, pushed out, and hanging)...it's very weird I could not describe it to the vet just pretty much said you have to see it to understand. 

After I cleaned his legs up today in the sunlight, it did not look as bad as my past horses mud fever legs. One leg is swollen on the canon bone area. But I am not sure if it is mud fever anymore...now that it is cleaned up in the light where I can see it properly. Hopefully not...don't need another thing to add onto the list. 

We have his hooves pretty bandaged up right now with pads, diapers, even Cotex pads (vets going to love those when he cuts them off tomorrow but got to use what you've got! ).

I want verification from my vet tomorrow that it looks to be a bad cut job before I put total blame on the farrier/assistant. It looks to be the case with it being so ironic this all happens after he comes out but I don't want to lay down the blame yet till we are pretty certain.

Just got to hang in there till the vet comes tomorrow....the answer to all my questions....

Thanks for all the best wishes and prayers everyone!!!


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## hermonine (Feb 10, 2012)

Here are some pictures of his other hoof. I took this while I was cleaning out the muck from his foot today. I was still in the process of cleaning it so please excuse the still dirty hoof. But underneath all the muck his hoof is as blood red as the others. He was not a happy camper with me trying to clean out the frog let along touch it...it was a pain and process to clean and bandage. I was trying to get a picture mainly of his cleaned up heal and how it is now flaring out, splitting, and coming forward. His hooves are so red and soft now. You can even see in one picture the red on the outside of his hoof.


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## hermonine (Feb 10, 2012)

caseymyhorserocks said:


> I would call a vet. If you cant get a hold of your farrier, start looking around for another good one to manage your horses hooves until you can get your farrier to your place.


 If worse comes to worse and the vet says that is was all due to a bad farrier job I do have another farrier I am interested in who sounds good but I will for sure get references first.


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## HollyBubbles (Jun 22, 2009)

Poor boy :-( glad your able to get the vet out tomorrow.. That's still pretty quick for a vet.. Here it would take a week or so unless the horse was literally dying right there and then.

How is he doing with his padded up hooves? Just wondering if maybe some foam pads or even some gamgee/cushion bandage padding might be more cushioning than just pads and nappies, it's a pretty experimental process when you've never seen anything like it before.

I don't know a whole lot about hooves and the way they are meant to look, but wow those definitely don't look normal at all.. Even the backs of the frogs look strange to me, as if the back of the frog hasn't been cut but the rest of it has. I hope your vet has some good advice tomorrow.

I wonder if some liniment would help his poor tightened tummy, I've not ever used it for that, but surely the tummy tucking would be him tightening his muscles up cause things hurt.

Poor guy he's certainly having a bit of a rough time of it


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## Khainon (Feb 24, 2013)

Celeste said:


> He won't be for long........


]

seriously..im an an apprenticeship right now...whenever i trim a horse..my mentor CHECKS to make sure everything is ok...he doesnt just walk away and leave it...thats extremely unprofessional...we apprentices NEED to have our work checked...


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## hermonine (Feb 10, 2012)

Khainon said:


> ]
> 
> seriously..im an an apprenticeship right now...whenever i trim a horse..my mentor CHECKS to make sure everything is ok...he doesnt just walk away and leave it...thats extremely unprofessional...we apprentices NEED to have our work checked...


 Good point! If the vet says it was the farrier then he is to blame to even if the apprentice did it. Sad to say for I really liked him. I have had him for a long time and he usually did so well but not going to go threw this again for sure. I have another farrier who I am ready to call and get references from.


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## Khainon (Feb 24, 2013)

hermonine said:


> Good point! If the vet says it was the farrier then he is to blame to even if the apprentice did it. Sad to say for I really liked him. I have had him for a long time and he usually did so well but not going to go threw this again for sure. I have another farrier who I am ready to call and get references from.


unfortunately this happens..even the best most experienced farriers make mistakes...but cutting the frog too low? i have never seen it...that was the first thing that i was taught not to do...well that and how to make sure everything is level...but still..no matter how nice the guy is..niceness does not make a good farrier...the knowledge does, this is why my mentor is paying for me to go to the school..he wants me to do right by the horses and to not make mistakes such as this...if it is indeed the farrier..i would call the american farriers association if he is registered with them because in all honesty...he should not be teaching.


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## hermonine (Feb 10, 2012)

HollyBubbles said:


> Poor boy :-( glad your able to get the vet out tomorrow.. That's still pretty quick for a vet.. Here it would take a week or so unless the horse was literally dying right there and then.
> 
> How is he doing with his padded up hooves? Just wondering if maybe some foam pads or even some gamgee/cushion bandage padding might be more cushioning than just pads and nappies, it's a pretty experimental process when you've never seen anything like it before.
> 
> ...


 A week! Dang, only once did it take a week for our vet but he was really really booked then. Though he is going pretty fast for us with coming out early tomorrow. Usually it takes a couple days, unless life threatening then he will come out pronto or if worse comes to worse and he is busy on emergency already he will give us to another vet he trusts. He knows we only call if it is a real emergency not just a little scratch.

The back of the frogs what is freaking me out as well. It was not like that a few days ago. It is just splitting like that. His hoof is soft like rubber now so it is probably splitting real easily and painfully right now. I am going to ask the vet if some of those horse therapeutic boots will be better than what we are self padding him with now. It will cost us but be worth it in the end if it makes him better.

My mom just checked him and walked him a few mins ago and says he seems much better and was actually out walking her in the corral as apposed to earlier, without his boots on, we were dragging him. On top of that he gobbled his small little mash she gave him.


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## HollyBubbles (Jun 22, 2009)

Hmm, do you have a dry area to stand him on for a little while each day? Just to let the airflow get in there, it will be uncomfortable for him unless he has bute or something but the last thing you want to add to the mix now is a bacterial or fungal infection from dampness and warmth that can occur inside the hoof bandages from his body heat.. Do hooves sweat??


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## hermonine (Feb 10, 2012)

HollyBubbles said:


> Hmm, do you have a dry area to stand him on for a little while each day? Just to let the airflow get in there, it will be uncomfortable for him unless he has bute or something but the last thing you want to add to the mix now is a bacterial or fungal infection from dampness and warmth that can occur inside the hoof bandages from his body heat.. Do hooves sweat??


 Yes, we take him out to clean his feet just stand with him in our driveway to give him a break. During this time we put betadine on his hooves and let his hooves dry out. After breaktime is over then he goes back into the bandages. I don't think horses hooves sweat, never seen then with all the padding I have done. I wish I could temp. move his corral into the driveway just to keep him dry but unfortunately we have tenits who need to use the driveway many times a day to get in and out. All we can do is keep his stall clean and as dry as we can keep it and let him have his standing breaks in the driveway right now. Hopefully no more big storms pass threw here to make things muddier.


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## HollyBubbles (Jun 22, 2009)

I hope things get better soon, let us know what the vet says tomorrow, I for one would be really interested to see how this case goes along


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## Khainon (Feb 24, 2013)

is it alright if i save the picture and show it to my mentor Robert? he may have some advice for you as well.


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## hermonine (Feb 10, 2012)

Khainon said:


> is it alright if i save the picture and show it to my mentor Robert? he may have some advice for you as well.


 Sure you can use them.


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## Khainon (Feb 24, 2013)

hermonine said:


> Sure you can use them.


awesome thank you, i will contact him tomorrow and see what he has to say, i will let you know when he gives me some info, keep your head up and i hope your baby starts to feel better....thats got to hurt like crazy


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Subbing.

Just want to say. If you are otherwise happy with the farrier to get him out or send him some pics and demand an explanation. If this happened to my horse I would probably have the farrier out before the vet or at least as well as.

I would ask if HE trimmed the horse or if the apprentice did and demand an explanation. If he gives you a good explanation and sounds legit I would give him a chance to fix what happened. It may not be his fault, or he may of had the apprentice do it (which is not ok that that happened, but if you made it clear that no one other than him was to touch your horse again may be ok to give him another try).

I would at least contact him first and see what he has to say and take it from there. Glad you're trying to get the vet out.


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## New_image (Oct 27, 2007)

I agree with Smrobs, it really looks like someone pared the frog clean off. Even these more recent pictures show the poor guy has no cushion left. I suppose if it was only one hoof he could have ripped it off in the pasture somehow. Poor guy!


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## Kayella (Feb 11, 2012)

Like Khainon, I sent a picture to my mentor. I'll let you know what he says. 

In the first picture, is that how muddy his stall is? If so, that could be a lot of the problem. I have seen frogs go red from being so water logged and diseased. 

My farrier just textedrme back and said it's hard to tell from the picture, but it may be cankerous. He said he'd do a biopsy and culture of the frog to see what's going on. I'll send him a couple of your more recent pictures to see if they'll give him a better idea.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kayella (Feb 11, 2012)

Talked to my farrier a bit more. He said the red looks like discoloration from serum(the water in blood). He said everything needs to be checked: temps, pulses, biopsy, culture, and take some radiographs. Let us know what the vet says when he comes out. 

My farrier also said he's never seen something like that before, so everyone is stumped for good reason.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## IndiesaurusRex (Feb 23, 2011)

HollyBubbles said:


> Hmm, do you have a dry area to stand him on for a little while each day? Just to let the airflow get in there, it will be uncomfortable for him unless he has bute or something but the last thing you want to add to the mix now is a bacterial or fungal infection from dampness and warmth that can occur inside the hoof bandages from his body heat.. Do hooves sweat??


Although they won't sweat in the true sense, they might be "sweating" in the way that cheese sweats when you leave it too long in an air tight bag in the fridge - condensation. His hooves will be relatively warm compared to the rest of the atmosphere, so there may be some degree of moisture being trapped between the bootie and his foot, as I'm presuming the boot is watertight.

Not much you can do about it, other than very regular changing, and letting his feet air as much as you can.


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## hermonine (Feb 10, 2012)

Kayella said:


> Like Khainon, I sent a picture to my mentor. I'll let you know what he says.
> 
> In the first picture, is that how muddy his stall is? If so, that could be a lot of the problem. I have seen frogs go red from being so water logged and diseased.
> 
> ...


 Thanks, the first picture was the corral he is stalled in but it was dry and not muddy when he was stalled in it. The mud was caused from us cleaning out his feet with the hose, then we switched and put him in a drier corral. The red frog actually happened before we got any rain here and it was pretty hot out for spring at 80 degrees outside. So the stalls were bone dry.


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## Kayella (Feb 11, 2012)

The vet is supposed to be coming out today, right? What is he planning on doing?


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## hermonine (Feb 10, 2012)

Well the vet came out and it just figures that my moms horse was acting perfect. He was walking normal again and trotting and not colicing, perky as ever....I was like perfect! Now the vet will think we are nuts!

The vet took a look at him. Cleaned out his feet and did a hoof test and said there was nothing wrong with him other than his feet being a little sensitive and his feet are sore.....................

He said his back feet were cut just a little short and his frog was soft so he wanted to harden up his hoof.

He said the frog was there so he did not understand why we said the frog was gone on the phone. As for the red hooves he didn't see a problem. He said it was just a little red but all horses have different feet. We told him this was not his normal color foot and was walking as if to keep weight off his hooves. Like I said our horse was walking normal went the vet came and passed his hoof test fine. He said due to his age it could be his arthritis acting up really badly due to this cold weather we are having (even though it started acting up when it was hot...ok....). And he has been in the wet mud to top everything. 

We told him he was on bute right now so he probably was feeling much better due to it. He told us to keep his boots off for he wants to dry out the hooves and for 5 days were are going to have him on bute to see how he is. We will call him after this time to tell him how the horse is doing.

I am very happy my moms horse is feeling better but I am just waiting for a relapse to happen when he is off the bute. Hopefully it is just something like his arthritis so we can just treat him for that. Thanks again everyone for all the help and prayers.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

hermonine said:


> Good point! If the vet says it was the farrier then he is to blame to even if the apprentice did it. Sad to say for I really liked him. I have had him for a long time and he usually did so well but not going to go threw this again for sure. I have another farrier who I am ready to call and get references from.


I would have called the farrier immediately, not to accuse but to let him know what is going on. You didn't so do it now. They know feet, there may be something he could do. 
Stop worrying about the feelings of the farrier! He would want to know.
Sorry to sound so harsh but something needs to be done.

ETA: Sorry, I didn't see your post about the vet. I'd still call the original farrier


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## LemonZeus (Oct 6, 2013)

hermonine said:


> Well the vet came out and it just figures that my moms horse was acting perfect. He was walking normal again and trotting and not colicing, perky as ever....I was like perfect! Now the vet will think we are nuts!


Zeus did the same thing a few weeks ago, isn't that irritating?! He would go down every chance he got, then magically got better and started eating when the vet arrived...
I'm glad he's feeling better! Though I'd keep a close eye on him when you get him off the bute.


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## hermonine (Feb 10, 2012)

LemonZeus said:


> Zeus did the same thing a few weeks ago, isn't that irritating?! He would go down every chance he got, then magically got better and started eating when the vet arrived...
> I'm glad he's feeling better! Though I'd keep a close eye on him when you get him off the bute.


I think our horses do it on purpose sometimes ...they are just like children and will do anything to get away from the doctor lol. But for sure he is going to be on watch especially the first few days off the bute. I am going to have his glucosamine upped. We have been giving him very little but if it is all due to his arthritis + the bad trimming like the vet thinks then he really needs more. I do not want to see him like that again.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

hermonine said:


> Here are some pictures of his other hoof. I took this while I was cleaning out the muck from his foot today. I was still in the process of cleaning it so please excuse the still dirty hoof. But underneath all the muck his hoof is as blood red as the others. He was not a happy camper with me trying to clean out the frog let along touch it...it was a pain and process to clean and bandage. I was trying to get a picture mainly of his cleaned up heal and how it is now flaring out, splitting, and coming forward. His hooves are so red and soft now. You can even see in one picture the red on the outside of his hoof.


How can ANYONE with ANY knowledge about horses say that this is OK? IT IS NOT! Call another vet and call your farrier. NOW.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

His feet do NOT look healthy. New vet now!


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## GreenBackJack (Feb 23, 2012)

I'm with NorthernMama! I don't understand this situation at all. Every picture you have posted and all your comments worry the heck out of me for this horse. I don't understand the lack of concern or urgency from either the farrier or vet. I do understand Hermoine that this is your mother's horse and I have no idea how much control you have over the situation but seriously, this poor boy's feet look like a nightmare to me. These are hooves you see on a rehab site as the "before" pictures. Going out on a limb here but, someone somewhere has their head up their b*tt and it's the horse whose getting the bad end of the deal. Those hooves do NOT look Ok in any sense of the word. 
Hermoine, your instincts are right. He needs help.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

I read through this.. and I have to say.. it looks to me like you are very close to LOSING this horse. He will eventually go down and not get up and that will be the end of that.

You need a new vet or even to truck him to a Veterinary teaching facility that can take him on. 

JMO.


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## Khainon (Feb 24, 2013)

Kayella said:


> Like Khainon, I sent a picture to my mentor. I'll let you know what he says.
> 
> In the first picture, is that how muddy his stall is? If so, that could be a lot of the problem. I have seen frogs go red from being so water logged and diseased.
> 
> ...


my farrier said pretty much the same thing..also said to get the horse onto dry ground as well lol


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

How did this turn out??


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

Yogiwick said:


> How did this turn out??


I'm also curious to know...


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## Nikkibella (Mar 10, 2012)

Any updates ??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Yes, would love an update. Our farrier, who I think is wonderful, had an apprentice with him at the barn last week, and I couldn't stop thinking about this thread while I watched the apprentice work on feet. :shock:


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## Strawberry4Me (Sep 13, 2012)

I am curious about the outcome of this as well! Update please!


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## hermonine (Feb 10, 2012)

Sorry for the late update, we have been busy here. My moms horse is doing so much better. He still has his bad days but nothing like anything before. He actually jogged up to his food the other day which made my day. His hooves are growing out and he is finally getting some padding, still a long way to go though. The vet told us not to wrap/pad his feet but we ignored that and on his bad days wrapped and padded his feet anyway. We saw it liked it as for when he saw us he would lift his foot and hold it as if wanting it to be wrapped lol. It relieved the pain a little so we saw no harm in it only help. After about 5 days we took him off the bute (ignoring the vet again who wanted to keep him on a much lesser dosage of bute for a week more). Even though it was such a little dosage of bute we were weary of giving him it for too long and took him off, padded his feet instead. He was in pain but it was better than what being on bute for too long could do to him. We also put him on a hoof growth feed (Farriers Formula) and I already see much improvement. That stuff is great and he loves it! On top of that we have upped the dose of his glucosamine (I think that was the only thing the vet said that we truly kept onto following ). I kept his feet very clean and put iodine on them everyday to help kill off any bacteria trying to form in his unprotected frog. Vet said stall rest but after a couple weeks of stall rest I noticed he would just stand in the corner not moving so I decided to give him very short walking exercise to get those legs moving and promote circulation in the legs. A week later when he was better I went to very very short jogging, one lap each way. He hated it and would majorly limp (felt so bad) but the next day I saw improvement and so kept this up every few days. Today he is almost like his normal self walking around. He is eating more, walking, and not looking as depressed. He still is sore (probably could not handle rough terrain) and I know we have a long road ahead of us before he will be fully healed and riding sound again but I am so happy that he can walk again. I love that farriers out there are getting assistants but you have to make sure they are being watched by their mentor to prevent mistakes like this from happening. Thanks everyone for all the help and prayers.


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