# Western Pleasure/HUS Stallion Search



## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

I know this might sound a bit dumb to ask but I would like to add some variety to my breeding program and could use some help. The mare I would be using (providing she is in foal therefore she is able to concieve) is my mare. She's not powerfully bred WP or HUS but she could produce a nice one with her movements and versitility. I'd like to find a stallion with more deep hock and a more flat knee movement. Also, I'd like to try and add height so 15H is minimal. I'd prefer to stay QH or double Registered QH/Paint. I don't have good conformations shots right now except on what is on my prior threads. Her back isn't horribly long like the picture portray, so if anyone finds a stallion with a short back that would be even greater. I've got serveral stallions on my list to look at so I'll post them later as I get a bigger list. Let me know what you find!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

Here is my list so far......some of them are just paint but I can be open to them.

Western Pleasure

Batt Man
Repeated In Red
My Final Notice
No Doubt I'm Lazy
One Hot Krymsun
Only In The Moonlite
Pure Dynamic
VS Code Blue
Righteous Invitation
Scenic Rio Krymsun
A Dream Remembered
TY
One Hot Invitation
Absolute Investment
Keeping It Good
Vested Legacy
Vested Pine
Good To The Max
Zips Chocolate Chip
Zippos MR Goodbar
Good Huh
Gucci Only
He's A Cool Hotrod
Invite The Artist
The Invitation
Diesel Only
Lazy Loper
Huntin For Chocolate
Macritz
VS Code Red

HUS

The Krymsun Kruzer
Iron Age
These Irons Are Hot
Coats N Tails
HBF Iron Man
Hot Ones Only


More to come later as I think.... if you can think of any please post them! Much appreciated!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheMethod (Jun 19, 2012)

For WP I'd vote for One Hot Krymsun, Kay Cee Leaguer, or My Final Notice(gorgeous blue roan and AMAZING!).

For HUS, I've always liked Huntin for Chocolate.

Good luck!


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## TimberRidgeRanch (Mar 6, 2012)

MyLittlePonies

You need to google this guy!!! hes 17.1 REG paint OMG and hes coming up the charts as a leading sire fast. His name is All Time Fancy aka NIKE
He is well built ans put together








he stands at Desert Paints along with a few other gorgeous stallions I am actually thinking of breeding my Spotted draft mare ROSE to their stallion Big Sensation next spring.
check them out www.DesertPaints.com 

TRR


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

Anyone else? Do they have a favorite from the list I came up with even?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tasia (Aug 17, 2009)

Zips chocolate chip.Theses irons are hot.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

MyLittlePonies said:


> Anyone else? Do they have a favorite from the list I came up with even?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's quite a list! I love The Invester lines, so any of those would be my choice. I own a 3 YO filly by My Final Notice and she'll be shown later this year in AQHA WP. I stay away from Zips Chocolate Chip....have met too many that can be a little difficult in the mind.

For HUS, Coats N Tails....


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## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

I have a penchant for Real Bonanza, love his versatile kids. AQHA/APHA


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## BarrelWannabe (Feb 8, 2011)

Oh, oh, oh! VS Code Red. 
I love that Guy, he's just gorgeous!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

Wow, you are all over the map....Generally, a breeder should know what would cross well with their mare and improve their program. Have you actually thought about this besides "short back"?


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

Do you have any current pictures of your mare? I don't think i've read any of your other threads with her pictures in it. Maybe you could link me?


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

GoAppendix said:


> Wow, you are all over the map....Generally, a breeder should know what would cross well with their mare and improve their program. Have you actually thought about this besides "short back"?


Actually, when I read the stallion list...it kept going and going. I expected to see a couple names on there, not a huge list...so I do agree with you.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

Well I like to look at a wide variety at a time. I won't just pick any horse to cross to my horses. I've thought heavily about this breeding. That's why I'm. Asking if anyone knows of any short back pleasure stallions. She has very little flaws and I want to be careful to keep it that way. I'm planning to get more current pictures MsBHavin so its easier for people so see her the way she really is.

So far, I'm liking VS Code Red (that would be an excellent cross), No Doubt I'M Lazy, Lazy Loper, Repeated In Red, VS Code Blue, One Hot Krymsun, and Absolute Investment.

But yes, I see exactly what you are saying about program improvements and such. At this point I just have one mare so I'm shopping for her proving she is in foal. She's given me the worst time breeding this year. I expect to get a couple more mares for next year. I'm building my program from the ground up. I just value other people's opinions as well. Its not easy picking the right stallion for your program when you have to focus it on one mare. Hopefully I'm expanded by spring with a few more nice mares.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

Ok, but you are looking at HUS and WP stallions. That isn't very decisive. The mare most likely is better suited to one type over the other. 

This just doesn't seem very well thought out.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

I'm looking at it from both angles. I wouldn't dare breed my mare to a HUS because she's not built that way in my opinion. Yes I know I post HUS but it gives me thoughts on crossing other mares with them. I'm still in the planning stages. I ask for opinions because there are other professionals who have been out there all the way who I can get advise from. I've talked to a few big time stallions owners and have learned by them to breed only the best. Anyways, I think I know who I'm going to cross her with providing she is in foal right now. Otherwise ill just buy another broodmare to fit my program if not make it a thousand times better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

Um, ok. You just seem quite inexperienced.


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## Lopin N Paint (May 30, 2012)

Without some photos and pedigree of the mare its really tough...

Some lines are just known for crossing well with others despite similarities or differences within pedigrees.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Is this the mare with Navicular?


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## spurstop (Mar 22, 2012)

One mare is not a program...

Video of the mare? Experienced breeders, especially for the rail classes, are going off a lot more than correcting one admitted fault in a mare.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

I'm new into the pleasure world as far as breeding but I've shown in it well. I used to study bloodlines as a kid and its very different from then as it changes all the time.

I'll post a link to the website and some pictures in a couple hours at most.

I didn't look at the lame mare and didn't take her because of that very reason that she is lame for a lifetime. If she wasn't lame I would take her in a heart beat for just bloodlines alone and she was gorgeous.

I just have one mare and she's a Go Lucky Sunbars granddaughter. If she was bred completely pleasure I would know how to cross that but I don't see much of her lines in the pleasure world. Its why I ask. 

I don't have a video sorry but if today wasn't in the triple digets I actually would show you her lounging. Reason I have rather a couple faults is because she really doesn't have anything major. The pictures I post later today are older so for now ill give you those. 

I know one mare isn't a program its just a start. I'm building it up carefully choosing the right bloodlines and conformation needed for pleasure. Of course there is more to that than just bloodlines and conformation but i think you know that. I'm planning to bring in two more mares for a spring breeding season. We a small farm operation at this time. Everyone starts somewhere. If the business isn't passed down to you, getting your foot in the door can be a battle and I've learned a lot from breeders and other people. 

Here is a serious question: 

We all talk about conformation faults needing to be fixed, but in the big breeding world most breeders will just cross them just because of bloodlines....now why not produce a nice looking horse with a great pedigree than produce something that looks butchered but people will buy it because of the lines? Maybe I asnwered my own question.....bloodlines. I've seen some really ugly crosses based solely on bloodlines alone. 

Anyways, I really do appreciate the comments because I learn more each time. My family is usually accustomed to breeding barrel horses. I like pleasure too and I've been riding both for years. I'd rather start out in the right way than blow it completely. I'm not in it alone..I have pleasure breeders give me tips all the time. I might sound inexperienced but I'm not clueless. Its her bloodlines I don't know which to cross her with except the stallions I like. Again if she was bred like Invitation Only or Zippos Mr Goodbar I would know how but I've not seen her lines being crossed with except maybe with halter or some other performance. She moves really nice. We win our pleasure and horsemanship classes with a breeze as well as other classes. If I had the money a while back she'd have at least a superior in open halter alone since she's beaten big halter type names in open shows. Sadly her height wouldn't survive either. Also another reason I wanted to try and get height on the baby and I know it usually falls between the parent's height. I'm well aware of that. If you want to give me tips/advice please PM me or whatever. I'm open. Just please no bashing. I'm still on a mare hunt for two broodmares who might have a show record or very proven offspring. I have my eye on a couple already...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

Here's the pedigree
I May Get Lucky Quarter Horse

And some old pictures

































They aren't very good pictures and they don't do her justice. I wish I really good conformation pictures at this time....


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

Thanks for posting the pics. I'm not busting on you, but in AQHA shows, she would not beat the real halter horses and would not get a Superior in Halter....but I would not let that bother me, because halter horses don't ride...and you want to produce WP horses. 

Now, her pedigree....I like the Eternal Sun even though everything else closer up is nothing spectacular. She's got a great hock set on her, and that is a HUGE plus for a WP horse. She's built more like the older style WP horses, and when I mean older style...I'm talking only like 12 years ago. WP horses have gotten much more modern, a little taller and a little more refined.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

GotaDunQH said:


> Thanks for posting the pics. I'm not busting on you, but in AQHA shows, she would not beat the real halter horses and would not get a Superior in Halter....but I would not let that bother me, because halter horses don't ride...and you want to produce WP horses.
> 
> Now, her pedigree....I like the Eternal Sun even though everything else closer up is nothing spectacular. She's got a great hock set on her, and that is a HUGE plus for a WP horse. She's built more like the older style WP horses, and when I mean older style...I'm talking only like 12 years ago. WP horses have gotten much more modern, a little taller and a little more refined.


What I was meaning was when I was at an open show with a bunch of AQHA mares, she beat some of the halter bred mares. The one mare she didn't beat and came second was an Ima Fancy Tee (I believe)....that was a congress mare. I know her height would probably be the only thing that stands out, but she's not bad. 

I think I have a couple stallions in mind.  The closer up area on her pedigree was actually in our family. Her granddam was a big 4H and Open show contester.


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

Height is not the only thing working against her.


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## DraftXDressage (Aug 29, 2011)

I would be more worried about her cow hocks than the length of her back.


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## DraftXDressage (Aug 29, 2011)

MyLittlePonies said:


> Here is a serious question:
> 
> We all talk about conformation faults needing to be fixed, but in the big breeding world most breeders will just cross them just because of bloodlines....now why not produce a nice looking horse with a great pedigree than produce something that looks butchered but people will buy it because of the lines? Maybe I asnwered my own question.....bloodlines. I've seen some really ugly crosses based solely on bloodlines alone.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Big breeding operations didn't get to be big, successful breeding operations by throwing any ol' mare with Three Bars way back in her pedigree out with their stud. "Most" big time breeders are not just crossing horses indiscriminately based on the names on their papers. Well bred horses tend to stay true to type, and that's why certain lines cross well together. But that's because of the careful work that went into creating and maintaining those lines, not because some moron looked at a couple of pedigrees and figured that two horses with names on their papers that he had heard of before should totally make babies together.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

She's actually not cow hocked. It's how she's standing plus her trimming at the time was way over due.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## howrsegirl123 (Feb 19, 2012)

I like Investment horses, they seem really great. I've ridden a horse out of Certain Potential, by Potential Investment, and he was beautiful to ride and great minded. He did anything you could want. 
My horse is out of Protect Your Assets, and he's a good all arounder. 
Zippos are really good WP horses.
As for HUS, Detail horses seem to dominate. Coats and Tails too. And I'm also seeing some good things with Dynamic horses.


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## DraftXDressage (Aug 29, 2011)

Well, she is standing in a way that makes her look cow hocked in every single picture. That sure is some coincidence....


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## howrsegirl123 (Feb 19, 2012)

I don't see it...


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

I didn't breed my mare the way she is. My was irresponsible and her sire ended up with two foals. I don't know the full story besides her being an accident. If it was my mare she would of had a different sire but in the end I'd never of had this nice mare. It all comes down to what God wants not us. We can choose a mate for our horses but will it always come out right? Not always. I'm religious but I'm not blind or using it as an excuse, but even I know something aren't meant to be. Even the big breeders are having major issues getting their mares in foal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

My aunt owned the horses when my mare was concieved.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

MyLittlePonies said:


> My aunt owned the horses when my mare was concieved.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What does that have to do with you breeding her now? 

Haven't you tried to breed her multiple times and each time she doesnt take? That right there should be telling you something...


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

Dressage10135 said:


> What does that have to do with you breeding her now?
> 
> Haven't you tried to breed her multiple times and each time she doesnt take? That right there should be telling you something...


Have you had a vet out to do a breeding exam on her?


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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

Me? I'm not breeding a mare!


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

MyLittlePonies said:


> I didn't breed my mare the way she is. My was irresponsible and her sire ended up with two foals. I don't know the full story besides her being an accident. If it was my mare she would of had a different sire but in the end I'd never of had this nice mare. It all comes down to what God wants not us. We can choose a mate for our horses but will it always come out right? Not always. I'm religious but I'm not blind or using it as an excuse, but even I know something aren't meant to be. Even the big breeders are having major issues getting their mares in foal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I have no idea what you are saying. You don't think the mare is well bred, yet you are thinking of using her as a pleasure broodmare? And it is God's choice?


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

Dressage10135 said:


> Me? I'm not breeding a mare!


lol no not you, the op.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

I really don't see her producing anything that would be remotely successful beyond little local shows. She's not built to produce what is winning today.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

Any horse can stand differently. Since it's supposed to be cooler I might get pictures up here. If she was cow hocked she wouldn't have been able to move correctly or win halter classes at that. She very lazy about where she puts her feet but I'll go out to see. She definitely don't move like a cow hocked horse does. I watch her in the pasture once in a while, but I'm not here to argue over bad pictures. Coincidence is what you see. I've had horses stand like that out of pure laziness and they're pretty correct.

All I was asking was asking about stallions with short backs with really good deep hocks and flat knee movement inwhich not all pleasure stallions have. That could be an argument but I'm not into arguing because most have it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

MyLittlePonies said:


> Any horse can stand differently.


In a single picture... sure, I'll give you that. But not in each and every single picture, like we have seen so far! :?


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I think she is a darling little mare and I'll bet she can kick some major tail in 4-h and local shows but in my opinion, if you want something that you can really be competetive with, then I would suggest buying a weanling or a yearling (if you want a baby). Her confirmation to me is not all that bad, but I don't think she's going to give you what you want.

My favorite stud is Chips Chocolate Chip. There is another one that I am madly in love with, A Sudden Vantage, but to be honost, I really think it would be more cost efficient to buy something already on the ground....


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

MyLittlePonies said:


> All I was asking was asking about stallions with short backs with really good deep hocks and flat knee movement inwhich not all pleasure stallions have. That could be an argument but I'm not into arguing because most have it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, pretty much all successful pleasure stallions have this.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

Yeah, I've tried three times. So far she has failed to come back into heat, but means nothing without an ultrasound. If she isn't pregnant then I will not use her. The first time I bred her the vet was in the middle of checking her ovaries but found out she was in heat so he didn't want to further on. At this stage I will probably have her fully examined like I wanted in the first place if she is not in foal. 

When I refered to God, I was saying that apparently she was supposed to be born because it was a freak accident. 

Why it matters is because I have to compare her whole pedigree and more to another stallion. With a different sire it could of made a difference.

There are many pleasure broodmares that I've came across that never should of been bred but they were because of pedigree. That also counts for "some" stallions.

I didn't say I hated how she was bred it's just. Her parents are half sibilings. I don't regret how she turned out.

Btw what is wrong with breeding her to a stallion that could make a big difference? You can't directly judge a mare without seeing the foal. Anyone can label a mare breeding worthy but its all opinion. I will admit she's short in height, has a long back, and a bit short on muscles than what she looked when she was in full training, and she's not really pleasure bred. I've accepted that and I want to improve her. Just because she is built the way she is doesn't mean she'll throw slaughter house foals. You can't prove that without seeing evidence. If I didn't like her I wouldn't think about this. Is there anything wrong with trying to improve the mare through the right stallion? (Of course, there isn't a real way to see what happends till it does).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DraftXDressage (Aug 29, 2011)

MyLittlePonies said:


> Btw what is wrong with breeding her to a stallion that could make a big difference? You can't directly judge a mare without seeing the foal. Anyone can label a mare breeding worthy but its all opinion. I will admit she's short in height, has a long back, and a bit short on muscles than what she looked when she was in full training, and she's not really pleasure bred. I've accepted that and I want to improve her. Just because she is built the way she is doesn't mean she'll throw slaughter house foals. You can't prove that without seeing evidence. If I didn't like her I wouldn't think about this. Is there anything wrong with trying to improve the mare through the right stallion? (Of course, there isn't a real way to see what happends till it does).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This logic is so flawed, I'm not even sure where to start. I guess I will leave it at, yes, there is something wrong with trying to "improve" a mare who isn't bred or built for the job with the right stallion.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

I'll give you that. Sucessful stallions do, but the question is: Will they pass it on 100 percent of the time? Most likely. Only the good ones.

She kick's major butt againt 4H and Open shows. But I also don't see her winning the major leagues either, but does that say the same for the foals? There are some who are just bad showers, but are producing much bigger show horses when crossed correctly. Others can't make it in the arena but also do well in the breeding shed. Every horse is different. She has points in American Ranch Horse Association just for halter alone. 

Like I stated earlier, if she isn't in foal I won't breed her anymore and I will just enjoy her. It's as simple as that (after a full exam to make sure it's not a simple isasue I can resolve).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

^^ Funny how it completely goes against the idea of breeding the best to the best, which the OP claims to have learned.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

Exactly what do you concider "built"? I see plenty of ranch horses doing well in pleasure and same going the other way. Apprently its against the law to ride a horse in a different event because it's not capable of doing what it was bred to do in the first place. Just because it is built to perform doesn't mean it can in the events it was bred to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DraftXDressage (Aug 29, 2011)

Having the wrong build for an event is fine for local open shows and 4H. I was under the impression that you were looking to breed a horse for more serious competition.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

You can make fun of what I learned. It doesn't bother me. I have one mare. If I had a couple others who were totally pleasure bred I would be set. As for my current mare, you can't make a horse do what it was bred to do if it cannot do it. If it performs well in another event then why is a total fuss? Did we expect Zippo Pine Bar to go pleasure? He wasn't even bred for it but he did it and produced it well. I don't compare him with my mare but I'm trying to make a point here. Just because they're bred for it doesn't mean it can do it. My mare is affraid of cow so we do other things and she likes it. I could probably breed her to some cow horse or reiner but can we all expect the same results of it's breeding?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

Have you thought about buying a weanling and raising it? That way you know exactly what you are getting.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

For her I can't expect much through her foals. I wouldn't mind if the result turned out to be a futurity horse or something more. I was planning to keep this foal. If it turns into something stellar its a good cross. I was hoping to produce a competitive horse. I just don't see how people can just judge a horse and say the foals won't be worth much more than a 4H horse. Maybe I can..

Genetics are funny that way.


Btw, I'm not always good at explaining things so please feel free to ask. I've noticed that a lot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

I've thought about buying one. But they're expensive around here even in surrounding states.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

MyLittlePonies said:


> For her I can't expect much through her foals. I wouldn't mind if the result turned out to be a futurity horse or something more. I was planning to keep this foal. If it turns into something stellar its a good cross. I was hoping to produce a competitive horse. I just don't see how people can just judge a horse and say the foals won't be worth much more than a 4H horse. Maybe I can..
> 
> Genetics are funny that way.
> 
> ...


You need to be extremely honest with yourself. The chances of a Futurity foal out of your mare are slim to none. Do you even have the money to campaign a futurity horse?


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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

You do realize that the stud fee is the least amount of money you will be spending right?


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Even though she and I usually don't agree on things, I completely agree with GoAppendix. I'm just going to put it short and to the point, no point in beating around the bush..

Yes, you have a nice mare, she does well at 4H and local level shows..Just on this alone and the fact that she MAY be able to produce does not mean she should be bred.. When it comes to your mare being the result of a "freak accident" and "God's doing"..Um false..That can be merely as simple as someone being irresponsible and not caring, or just being a back yard breeder.. No freak accident. 

Have you thought that while you've tried multiple times to breed her now and she hasn't taken that this will probably lead to also having problems during the pregnancy, let alone just taking? It seems as though you aren't breeding for the right reason, you aren't breeding for quality, and just for the "I want a pretty foal from my mare." people.. If you want a nice foal or prospect BUY one. You'll most likely get far better results that way.


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

DrumRunner said:


> Even though she and I usually don't agree on things, I completely agree with GoAppendix.


Miracles do happen! Ha, just kidding. Hey, we only disagreed like twice.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

MyLittlePonies said:


> I've thought about buying one. But they're expensive around here even in surrounding states.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well probably alot cheaper than breeding to some of these top studs you listed.At least too ,you know what you are getting:wink: The stud fee is the least of it!Add the vet fees to have her AI'd & care to maintain a healthy pregnancy you are going to probably spending more.All this on a mare that you have no idea on how she will produce or even if she will ever get in foal & not high on the odds of producing a higher level show horse that you are hoping:-(.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

GoAppendix said:


> Miracles do happen! Ha, just kidding. Hey, we only disagreed like twice.


Haha! I actually think it's because we're a lot alike, and we just like different things..So that's what makes it a little weird. Definitely had to laugh though when I was reading your posts and like "Crap, I agree with her..AND she's right.."


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

I don't breed pretty foal syndroms. I do know the stud fee isn't the last thing I pay. There is a lot that goes into breeding. If I wanted "just a foal" I'd of bred to the first stud who walked to my pasture like an idiot not caring what came out. (Not calling all people idiots) 

The reason I am breeding her is to pass on her good versitile, temperment, willing attitude, and beauty to a foal I can take much further since I know she wouldn't make it out there with the height issue alone. I am hoping that the stallion would correct some faults. I've had numorous offers to buy her and breeders watching her work. She is quite a package by herself.

Also, when i foal shopped there was always something wrong with it. A foal I was looking at herited a hernia from one of the parents. Such a grgeous girl and everything I wanted for the right price but her sisters had one too but didn't require surgury. Wouldn't of helped me later since I was looking for a show/broodmare prospect.
Ive yet to find the right one to buy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

What if this foal is born and doesn't grow taller than 15hh? There is absolutely NO guarantee with ANYTHING when breeding. You also don't know that you will get something nicer than your mare (which is what you need if you want to make it to the high levels).


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

MyLittlePonies said:


> Ive yet to find the right one to buy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then keep looking..


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

Gosh this phone is five minutes slow!

Just tallying up two breedings to one stud(no stud fee): about 1000-1500. I gave up with him and tried with my stallion. So far she has failed to come back into heat but that's no guarantee, but I am hoping. It would be our first foal with him. He's got several on the ground it's just I have only had him for a couple years. Nothing wrong with him. It was a test breed but I will have to see.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

:shock: A test breed!? 

This is not a mic check, this is a LIFE, a living thing.. There are no "tests".


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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

I didn't realize you had a stud as well. Is he quality enough to produce something nice?


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

I'm trying to aim high but I only have this one mare. Well, plus my stallion. I've been looking for the right bloodlines to cross with him that will take us to the top. 

If it doesn't get taller than 15 it doesn't mean I'll toss it away. 

I had my eyes set on some VS Code Red foals but boy they are a chunk of change. Tried to invest in a newborn and they wanted 15000 for all their weanlings each. I'd need eight jobs to pay that. Right now I'm just broodmare shopping. Plus, just to really support this I have to search for a job which is scarse for some reason... So I'm in a small dilima which I'm hoping to solve soon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

A *good* broodmare will cost you quite a bit of money as well. I don't think you understand just how costly and how difficult it is to make it to the top with breeding.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

Yes, he is a proven sire. The only thing he hasn't produced, which is what aiming for, is a world and congress champion. Otherwise he's capable of doing it. He's got the bloodlines and the complete package. I've came into contact with foal owners and they are satisfied with his offspring. I'm just trying to carefully select my broodmare band.

Test breed to me is seeing what is produced. I take care of my animals very well. I thought maybe he might improve something. He usually throws a copy of himself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

It's why I'm saving from a job. I am likely to spend around 10000 for a nice bred mare but market is down so there is a small benefit there in which I have a few lined up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

MyLittlePonies said:


> Yes, he is a proven sire. *The only thing he hasn't produced, which is what aiming for, is a world and congress champion. Otherwise he's capable of doing it*. He's got the bloodlines and the complete package. I've came into contact with foal owners and they are satisfied with his offspring. I'm just trying to carefully select my broodmare band.
> 
> Test breed to me is seeing what is produced. I take care of my animals very well. I thought maybe he might improve something. He usually throws a copy of himself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So, besides exactly what you are trying to produce, he is doing it? That makes no sense whatsoever! Why would you keep breeding him if he isn't producing what you want? Thats the ENTIRE point of you breeding is it not?


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

You're wanting to produce a "big time" winning foal..Out of a stallion that you just said hasn't produced a world or congress champion. That makes NO sense...Breeding him over and over again doesn't increase the chances in him producing a champion, especially with a mediocre mare that isn't doing well higher than at a 4H level.. 

A test breed usually turns out to the one of the MANY, MANY unwanted backyard breeder horses.. The exact reason of why most people today should NOT breed.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

That's not it at all. I have only had him for two years and going off progency records. He's produced regional experience champions, AQHA money and point earners, NSBA money and point earners, circuit champions, futurity champions, ROM Earners, and a youth congress team qualifier (he was injured before class). I believe he will throw a world and/or congress champion. They're quite versitile. I'm working to find the right mare to cross with him to show at those two shows.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

What is your studs name?


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## Tasia (Aug 17, 2009)

Look, I'm not trying to defend anyone here, it's obvious she's investigating this decision a lot and good for her, she's not pick studs with purty colours. She knows what she wants and that says a lot.


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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

Knowing what you want and being realistic about how to get it are two different things.


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## Tasia (Aug 17, 2009)

Dressage10135 said:


> Knowing what you want and being realistic about how to get it are two different things.


 That is true. I just thought the replies that the OP have made were mature, unlike other breeding threads I have read.


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

Tasia said:


> Look, I'm not trying to defend anyone here, it's obvious she's investigating this decision a lot and good for her, she's not pick studs with purty colours. She knows what she wants and that says a lot.



Unfortunately, her dream isn't matching up with reality.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

Let's get this out of the way. This is the first time I've ever bred him. He was breed by Lewis Quarter Horses before the husband died then he had to be sold. I bought him off the new owner. I don't know if any of them went to either show. But I'm not planning to breed randomly. Yes this one mare I did. That's it.

I plan to cross him with a stellar mare and go to congress and world. I'm not talking about my quarter pony(AQHA reg) either.

Lewis Quarter Horses I guess only bred their mares? I don't know. I know one thing for a fact. It takes dedication to breed the right horses and train them, then show them. I'm willing to go for it and I know he would produce it. I haven't advertised him in the AQHA journal as of yet. 
I had bloodline suggestions so I'm going to find a great broodmare and go from there. Yes, it's thousands of dollars to go through feeding, care, training, and much more to campain a horse to world and I'm willing to do it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

Since you don't appear to be listening to anything other than what you want to hear, all I can say is good luck. And I hope it works out for you.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

His name is Me Too Radical. He was shown very lightly as a two and three old. Got an 8th and 9th double judged at his home town futurity out of 16. That was out of my control. If I had him at that age he'd of been at world and congress. In two months when I bought him, I took him to an open show and it had been 11 years since he was been ridden or shown. Rode like he was never out of training. Did fabulous and had quite a bit of compliment from judges and breeders. Last year I took him to the futurity in my home town and just did a halter class. I rode him around. No big deal. Again, people were talking to us.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

I am confused. I thought we were off the pony subject. Where do we get off attacking my stallion, in which I am working to get a world caliber foal on the ground (from a different mare with pleasure build and bloodlines). 

Again, I'm plain confused. I've tried listening and all I know is apparently you don't think I haven't learned anything. Is it not enough that I'm trying to get this thing going? I know what I need to do to get a world caliber foal on the ground. Yes I get it. My 14h isn't good enough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

Well at first I just thought you were inexperienced. Now I think you are inexperienced and delusional.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

You've said you've never bred him..But you did create a facebook page for him..Where you had a contest for "discount breedings" to SELECTIVE mares..Which only ended up being three mares in the contest all together, none of said mares have great bloodlines.. It does look as thought you've attempted to boost his Facebook page but there's no interest in breeding to him other than the three contest mares...You're using someone else's picture from 1999 as his picture, and you don't have any proper pictures of him at all for trying to "Promote" him as a sire.. 

This, to me, doesn't scream "I'll produce a world champion" neither does the way you're presenting things about him..

























You have videos posted from 2007..Trying to advertise him..


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

I've had about enough. I've sat here and listened and answered questions. I am not delusional. Producing grade horses and expecting them to win the world show is delusional. Being inexperienced is attempting something you've never done. I have idea if any of them has been to world. I'm new to this and I'm getting called names? And my horses are being disrespected all because my stallion wasn't bred to a caliber mare. I am focussing on what is now and my goal is to try and produce a prospect for world shows. Why is that delusional? He wasn't bred to typical pleasure mares. I'm changing that. I shouldn't have to explain this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

Because world caliber western pleasure horses really do not just magically appear from lower quality horses. Which I am sorry to tell you, a mare only competitive at the 4H level, and not even remotely bred to be a pleasure horse, would be on the low end.

Your horses aren't going to produce world show prospects. That is just how it is.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

The only issue is the simple fact that he doesn't have a world/congress foal.

I am having professional pictures done in the fall. That was the first year I had him. I had him boarded at the worst place ever and had last resorts to do. He is relocated. At that time, I did not know anything about promoting stallions. But now I know how to take a proper photo but I'm still having it done professionally. Those are ugly mistakes I have learned from. I need to deleate those tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me. Seriously. I plan to do much better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

I just said I was buying another mare. That does make a difference.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

^^ No, that isn't the only issue. At all.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

That's the whole point.. You can't keep sticking up things like that, the test breeding, and breeding to crappy mares (Sorry, just being honest) like the ones on the facebook page, and making decisions of equal value and THINK you're going to climb the showing ladder.. It's just not going to happen. 

You are FAR better off saving your money and buying a kick *** prospect that you can start from the ground up with and show.. That is a good way to kick this off... Not going ahead and buying mares and all of that mess.. Buy a prospect.. Establish your stallion, VERY WELL, not just breeding to mediocre mares..You have to be selective and serious about it. You can't expect to be a back yard operation and excel at anything.. It wouldn't hurt you to go to a well known breeder and have a serious sit down with them. I honestly don't think you're really sure of what all it's going to take..and you're not making very responsible decisions to get you there.

You need to spend some quality time with someone who is actually successful in this and not just assume you can do everything..starting with buying a new mare.. That just isn't the case.


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## TheBlackHorse (Mar 25, 2012)

MyLittlePonies said:


> I'm trying to aim high but I only have this one mare. Well, plus my stallion. I've been looking for the right bloodlines to cross with him that will take us to the top.
> 
> If it doesn't get taller than 15 it doesn't mean I'll toss it away.
> 
> ...


So you have a sub-par mare, no job, and instead of getting a repro exam on the mare, you've been "test breeding" her to your stallion, who I presume is not a pleasure horse? You don't seem to be a great decision maker.


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## TheBlackHorse (Mar 25, 2012)

MyLittlePonies said:


> I just said I was buying another mare. That does make a difference.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you can't afford a decent quality weanling, chances are, you won't be able to afford a good broodmare. Or the stud fee on a stallion to cross on her.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

I am thinking about getting in touch with a few but there are a few who won't even talk to you around here. I agree that breeding crappy mares won't help either. I need to get the right prospects on the ground with the excellent brand of mares. I understand that fully. I truely do especially after how many pages of arguments.

I had a guy back in april talk to me about what bloodlines to cross him with and I am taking his advice. He was a friend of the guy who produced my stallion. Now I cannot change who he was bred to in the past but I plan to breed him to only the great mares in the future for now on. I advertising in the journals will be helpful too once I get on my feet and hire the right people. Like they say "Rome was not built in a day" and that is a fact.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

If they won't talk to you, go to the next person, then the next..You can't just stop if you're serious about this.

The big thing now is that you have to set some small goals.. You are looking WAY too far ahead in the game for what you're capable of doing right now. For now I think you need to completely put breeding aside.. Just no.. If you're serious about it you need to start promoting the stallion and if, IF, that works I would move to breeding and that's a big if.. You stallion hasn't actually done anything impressive in his life and you aren't doing anything to help him out with it. Especially making a name for yourself the way you are..test breeding, breeding to crappy mares..those things say a LOT about a person.

You have about six or seven big things you are wanting to accomplish and it's not possible to get them all done at once. It's just not going to happen.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

No i had her up at the vets and he was in the middle of the exam and found she was in heat(silent) so he decided to just breed her. I didn't know a cytology was inside the exam because he didn't mention her needing one since she was maiden. I was sceptical about that. She was bred twice to a different stallion whom I wanted a nice local show foal from, but that didn't work out. I couldn't afford a third AI so I bred her to my stallion. I shouldn't have used the term test breed. I should of looked it up. At the time, I was in college working both ends. It sounds dumb but I was nieve. I think I have an eye opener.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

He's a pleasure stallion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

You needed an eye opener..Hopefully you got one and can see that we're not just being mean, it's the God's honest truth. Something that you have to see and acknowledge before setting off on this tangent...

and I would not breed her again if she didn't take..


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

Would I be a fool to get a foal on the ground from a good mare and prove it? Isn't that basically what breeders do? I'm being serious.

I'll be heading to bed soon. It's like 2am here and my body is cramping from sleep deprive.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

I'm used to defending myself from being bullied so it's why I get defensive. I've had people bully me over this mare because the vet wouldn't finish the exam. 
I've been thinking a lot that she may be infertile. But an ultrasound will settle the direction I need to go.
I've had other thoughts of breeding for a successor son and have him shown up well. I feel every strong about it and I do not want to quit on my boy. Just because mistakes were made for his show record, doesn't mean he's worthless. He's one of the kindest stallions I ever handled without stud behaviors. Too bad more stud's couldn't more like that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

You'd be a fool to try to handle all of it at once.. You've already said you are having to find another job..to get a mare of high quality isn't going to be cheap, and you can't expect to buy cheap and get a high quality foal. Period. It just isn't going to happen. You're far better off and not a fool for saving up for a foal.prospect already on the ground while promoting your stallion. THAT is a smart move..Not buying a decent mare then going through everything to get you to that point.. If you just HAVE to buy a mare and breed wait until next year or so when you've promoted your stallion really well..

I hate to say it, but just because you love your. stallion doesn't mean that others will. There are many great stallions out there that have awesome temperaments and such..On top of that they are already well promoted and have accomplished numerous things.

Big thing to remember..and I have this problem as well..I have to tell myself frequently..

You have too many dreams right now and your dreams are too big for your pocketbook right now..It's better to wait until you can handle it all than to jump out there without a good start and then lose it all.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

Prospect on the ground to buy may be an idea...
If there aren't current foals doesn't that defer them? I know what you're saying but I have to ask questions while I can. He's 16 so that is another thing I have to keep in mind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

I was planning to breed until next year.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

*wasnt going to breed till next year.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

What do you mean? 

I'm really not sure what to tell you about your stallion..I'm not going to candy coat it, if you are able to successfully start breeding him it's going to be extremely hard. You're probably going to be shut down a lot..There are trends when it comes to breeding pleasure horses..I'm positive that GoAppendix, GotaDunQH, and other pleasure people can point you in the right direction when it comes to that. They ARE right, not just being mean.. Your stallion may have some nice horses in his pedigree but he didn't accomplish anything, it's not his fault but it's just a fact..It's going to be very hard to put him out there for breeding when there are so many other great stallions already.

If you want me to be completely honest about the whole situation is to do a lot of searching, tons and tons of research and asking questions..Save until maybe next spring or so, scrape every penny away, and go look for an awesome quality prospect, probably a filly with amazing bloodlines and ability to excel and what you want her to do.. Start with a trainer and bring her up slow, show her, take her to high levels of showing then when it comes time and she's accomplished great things breed her..Start your "program" that way.. You'll have a high successful high quality mare, you can breed her to a "big" stallion then, possibly get a colt and then go from there.. It's a long way in the process but overall it's a better plan than the one you're working on now..


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

Going OT for a second...I don't know who your farrier is but you need a new one. Both your stud AND your mare have terrible trims....WAAAAY too much toe.

Back to the topic. If you are deadset at finding a QUALITY broodmare, then keep tabs on when Rita Crundwell's herd is being auctioned off. I don't know where you live but it would be worth your while to get to that auction when it happens.

As for "making" a World or Congress horse, is just doesn't stop at breeding a top caliber horse. Your BIGGEST exense is going to be training and showing. Be prepared to put that horse into full time training WITH a big name trainer at the cost of $850+ a month. THEN there is going to enough shows AND winning to get the qualifying points for the World Show. Anyone can go to Congress, there is no qualifying but you better have the talent in yourself and your horse to compete there.

Honestly, I don't see your stallion producing top WP horses. Those Radical horses are notorious for being on the small side and MOST of them are better at Trail and Western Riding.


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## spurstop (Mar 22, 2012)

Boy this thread blew up. Can I be completely honest with you? There's two big issues I see here. 

The first thing is, I don't think that you realize the cost, time, and expenses that go into promoting and building a successful stallion -- especially one that you want to produce World calibre foals. He doesn't have the show career, which is hurting him. He's older, and it's going to be hard to put him back in a program and build his show career now, but it should probably be done if you want him to have any sort of name for himself. He is not a nice enough horse standing in the pasture to stand on his own merit. He needs some success to back it up. He's an older horse, so he's probably going to need some maintenance like injections to keep him limber. So now, you are looking at the cost of training, the cost of showing him (which is going to include trainer's fees as you will need to have a professional on board, banding, stalls, shavings, class fees, day fees, hauling fees), and injections if needed. You're going to need to take him to some of the bigger circuits to get him seen. Weekend shows are great for getting points, but you'll need to consider Sun Circuit, Big A, Stars and Stripes, etc. 

You're going to need to have a video done. People like to see nice quality videos, so unless you have the equipment and skills to put together a good video or a friend who will help you, you're going to need to look into hiring a professional service. 

You'll need better, professional pictures. Farm shoots aren't really cheap with the good photographers. Shooting horses is tougher than some people think, so you'll need someone with the experience to produce nice photos.

Are you planning on putting him in the Incentive Fund and Breeder's Trust? You really should because it could potentially increase any foal values. There's fees for that. 

He'll need to be advertised in the major publications -- QHJ, GoMag, EC, etc. etc. etc. You'll need to have your ads professionally designed unless you are a graphic design person. So, expect to pay for that. You can also sponsor classes at larger shows in his name. 

It probably wouldn't hurt to have a logo designed for use on merchandise in advertising. You'll need to pay for that. 

Banners, jackets, hats, etc. to promote your horse at the shows. 

When you are starting out, you'll really want to cater to the mare owners who are supporting your horse by breeding to him. Really, you'll want to thank mare owners throughout his career. I still have a mug that a stallion owner sent me for Christmas for breeding to her horse. It came full of candy for me and treats for the mare and was a really sweet gesture. The resulting foal from that is 6 this year, and I still think highly of that stallion owner for the above and beyond service throughout breeding.

If he hasn't already been tested for any communicable diseases, you'll need to have him tested for those. You need to decide how you are going to stand him. Breeding is very risky. Was it last year that AGM passed or the year before? Regardless, it was a freak breeding accident that cost him his life, and they were using a phantom. 

Another part of reality: I don't think you realize how expensive the World Champion producing mares are. These mares are regularly five-figure horses. If you can't afford them, you will need to be luring those mare owners in with all of those things I've listed above.

Here's the second thing. Just in those videos that I watched, I don't think he'd ever be a standout as a pleasure stallion. Maybe he could do the trail or riding, so that makes him a niche horse. Even the stallions who are very successful in the WR and are putting together full books each year are also successful on the rail. People probably won't be flocking to breed to your horse as a WR or Trail only horse.

Get over the open shows. No one who is breeding is going to care about them. What is your futurity? Unless it is a well-known event (like The Little Futurity, itself) no one is going to care about the local futurity events either.

Breeding is very expensive on both ends. It's expensive for the mare owner to get a mare in foal to a good stallion, and it's expensive for the stallion owner to stand and market a horse. Don't expect to get rich. 

I do want to know -- how involved in pleasure are you? How familiar are you with the classes? When you are at a breed show, can you easily find the winners in a class and know WHY they are the winners? You've really got to know the game if you want to play it.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

After careful concideration being I have had only six hours of sleep, I am planning to save money and put him back in a trainer. I have a couple local trainers I can call up. As for the WP classes I really think he could excell at other things. He does a little trail "course" and loves to be worked. I tried reining just for fun and liked it although slow but I'm not complaining. He pivots perfectly. He used to be spur trained so that isn't horrible without spurs unless you count having shove your heel in just to lope otherwise he'll do laps of it. 

I have been very aware on what it will cost training wise alone and I plan to price some shows. I'm not familiar with circuits so I don't know where they are. I have a home state futurity that runs during september. Our state club had at least 14 major shows this year that we actually knew where it was.

Also I have changed farriers. Trust me he was fired. He also nearly destroyed their feet. Movement was worse. My stallion just about didn't make it sound. I was not happy one bit.

He did have training jumping and some driving training(not with a cart that I knew of). All the foals based on show records and talking to foal owners, are very versitile. They excell in halter(regular and performance), showmanship, western pleasure, HUS, equitation, western riding, and reining. Hopefully if I can get him going in a few of those I would be set. I have given a few short showmanship lessons and he was pretty smooth.

Thanks for all the advice!! I don't thin k he'll have much of an issue getting back in showing. Last year they did a bunch of articals on horses well into their 20s showing at showing at world so who knows.

What are some really good circuits and magazines to advertise in? Or journals?

I can tell winners of the class. I used to go and watch them. But there are surprises. I probably need a refresher.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

Personally I like to watch congress over all. I've never been to world or even reicherts celebration.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spurstop (Mar 22, 2012)

You know that strangled yell Charlie Brown makes when Lucy pulls away the football as he's punting it?

I'm making it right now.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

I don't quite understand what you mean by that. I don't watch much football.

Is that a good thing?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

Probably not
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)




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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

Ok that is a bad thing... What is wrong with putting him in training now?
If it's about advertising I know only a few select places: AQHA and NSBA journal, Go Mag, Equine Chronical?, and sponsorship of classes, proffessional photography and proffessional ads done, hiring a website designer, and pure campaign, plus other expenses. What am I missing in the formula?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

Plus merchandise
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spurstop (Mar 22, 2012)

Being able to pay for it all?


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

That's all that was? Yeah I know. I'm working with some people to give me a loan. I'm planning to save plenty. Is horsemanship popular as far as what I'm trying to do? He loves patterns.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

No, thats not all that was. We have been trying to tell you what is "missing from the formula" this entire thread. I suggest you sit down with a pen and paper, and go back through this thread and read SLOWLY. Take notes on what has been said.


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## spurstop (Mar 22, 2012)

Listen, I think if you are serious about becoming a respectable breeder in the AQHA arena, you need to get more involved as an amateur and learn the ropes before you even think about standing a stallion. I get the impression that you really aren't that knowledgeable and up to date with the breed shows, and especially the pleasure. You don't even know what classes to put the horse in. What does that tell you?

If your horse is broke, why don't you go ahead and stick him with a trainer and start showing him _without the intention of standing him_. You need to learn a heck of a lot more about the industry than you currently do before you even think of putting yourself out there.

I am really trying to be nice, but everything in your posts is screaming that you are not ready to stand a stallion to the public. I am sure you are a nice person in person, but you seem very naive in your posts. You've missed the very obvious points that people have tried to make.

If you are standing a stallion to the public as a business, you need to have some business-savvy and people skills. If you want a World caliber stallion, you are going to need to invest quite a bit of money, and my understanding is that you are currently unemployed. Is taking out a loan right now really a wise choice? 

Your "test breedings" are further proof that you need some more knowledge before you stand this horse.

I am not really going to try to explain any more because my head is hurting from banging against the wall. Here you go:

You. Are. Not. Ready. To. Stand. A. Stallion.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

I plan to actually. But I really need questions answered if possible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

Your questions HAVE been answered, you just aren't listening.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

I know how to show but I have not competed in AQHA. I'm not going to test breed anymore and I probably won't do anything except show. I can let the trainer show him and I'll show my gelding getting into the ropes of things as you put it. Getting a job will make things go smoother I get that. It takes money, time and a lot of work to put this together. 
As a business, that's why I am in college. To get better social skills. I don't always say the right things and as usual it gets me into trouble.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

spurstop said:


> You know that strangled yell Charlie Brown makes when Lucy pulls away the football as he's punting it?
> 
> I'm making it right now.


Oh my..That was fantastic.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Local showing and then showing with AQHA is a COMPLETELY different world.. Completely different..Going into AQHA like you are now would be a complete train wreck. You have to learn more about all of this before you jump into it and fall on your face..I hate to say it but it's just the truth. You aren't nearly ready for this huge deal as you think you are..


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

If you haven't noticed I have been asking about what kinds of circuits there are because I'm not familiar with them. And I've asked about advertising places. I'm gathering info for future and if am wrong to ask then it's a sin.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

Its certainly not a sin to ask at all. But I think what the smarter route for you would be to make some smaller goals and accomplish those one at a time. Then, once you have completed them, make another set of goals a little bit larger. These things take a ton of time. You cannot expect to just produce that caliber of horses in a year or one breeding.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

If I didn't want to learn something then I wouldn't be sitting here asking. I know it's different. It's like learning a new language. It takes time and effort to get fluent. I have trainers I can work with and take lessons with and learn under them. Do I not sound like I'm trying to learn something? I'm not ignoring anyone by any means. I comprehend things differently than you do. Maybe I should make a new thread "What should you think about before thinking about standing a stallion?"
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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

Throughout this thread it seems you have changed what your goal is a bunch of times. Originally you were trying to find a stud that was a good match for your mare. Then you were wanting to raise the foal and take him to the top. Now you are saying you want to stand your stud.. So what is it? Its really not practical to try and do all of them at the same time.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

So getting my life back on track with a job and saving up to put my horse through training isn't a small goal? That is half a year to save and although it may not be enough, at least ill have a way to pay for it.

Also, for that futurity thing someone brought up, I have him in a few.
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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

Yes, that is a good goal. But go back to your original post. You said you "wanted to add variety to your breeding program". No offense, but you don't HAVE a breeding program..


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

MLP where are you located? Are there any big time breeders/people who show near you? If so go see them and see if they are willing to mentor you and get you into the show world *before* you start standing your stallion to the public. You need to have a firm base in the world you are getting into before standing a stud IMO.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Look, We're honestly just trying to help you..You have to realize that you're wanting to do an awful lot without the means to do so, I give you credit for going for your dreams but I just don't think you realize how hard it's going to be. We've given you the answers, the truth, and when you don't like what you hear you just go on the defensive and tell us we're wrong. You just don't like the truth, not that we're being mean.


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## spurstop (Mar 22, 2012)

AQHA shows are listed in the Quarter Horse Journal and some are on aqha.com.

Get a real trainer and they will help you.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

Here is my ultimate goal and please forgive how slow my responses are it's the cell phone. I want to get him out of retirement and showing to the furthest I can. If he qualifies for world then I will take him the following depending on if he makes the points before the deadline in May. I would like to take him to Congress if he's ready and I'm sure he will be with all the months I will be paying and showing, ect... But I would also like to get some ads done so people know he's alive and introducing him to the public so they can follow us as he shows. Does this seem reasonable now? 

I still want to get a mare or two for future even if I breed them to outside stallions. But that will be down the road.
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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

Your stud is 16. He hasn't been ridden in a while and probably never at the level you want to bring him up to (all in less than a year?). You have no job right now. Are you planning on riding him or will you hire someone to ride him?


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

You're also going to need entry fees, new show outfits, chaps, new show tack, new saddle, possibly a fake tail, getting his looks up to par, and yourself..you can't expect to do well looking sloppy and not wearing the "in" looks..


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

I didn't say you were wrong. I am making sure I have things straight.

I didn't say the operation was estabolished. In my definition, toy have to have all the equipment and more to do it. I know it's not an operation. I'm trying to start one. I'm sure there are several people on here who are asking the same questions I am but not actually asking. 

I have trainers and breeders around me who might be nice enough to mentor me. There is a pleasure judge around me I'm concidering for him. He's a really nice guy and wonderful family. He does world and congress shows as far as him showing. I don't know everything about him but he's local and they have a breeding operation there too as far as mares. I have a price on that.
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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

You need to go spend about a year mentoring under a good trainer and breeder, THEN come back to this and decide what you want to do. You are not ready right now..No amount of questions will make you ready now..We're giving you answers and when they're not the ones you want to hear you make excuses.. We can't help someone who isn't going to listen. You're going in all kinds of different directions with things, not making up your mind, and expecting everything to fall into place without you have to work your *** off for it. It's not going to happen.. You are NOT ready for all that you want to take on.


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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

Are you focusing on your mare or your stud? You've changed your mind in this thread alone at least 2 times.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

MyLittlePonies said:


> Here is my ultimate goal and please forgive how slow my responses are it's the cell phone. I want to get him out of retirement and showing to the furthest I can. If he qualifies for world then I will take him the following depending on if he makes the points before the deadline in May. I would like to take him to Congress if he's ready and I'm sure he will be with all the months I will be paying and showing, ect... But I would also like to get some ads done so people know he's alive and introducing him to the public so they can follow us as he shows. *Does this reasonable seem now?*
> 
> I still want to get a mare or two for future even if I breed them to outside stallions. But that will be down the road.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry to say, but no it does not sound reasonable. I feel for you, I REALLY do because you are getting a lot of "flack" on here and you have kept your cool. But you and this stud showing and qualifying for the World Show....are living a pipedream. In Sr WP at the 2012 WS, you need 17.5 to qualify. For Ammy, 22 points. Do you know how points are accumumlated?? Points are accumulated and based on the number of horses in your WP class and where you place. So pretty much...to earn THOSE amount of points within one year's time...you need to WIN big classes each and EVERY time out. 

My horse qualified for the World in Jr WP when he was 3. He was 3.5 points away for qualifying a second time as a Sr horse when he was 6. We were hauling fast and furious in the Northeast to get those 3.5 points. At the LAST show in our area available to qualify, a 4 day double judged....he coliced, had surgery, and was out of commission for close to 4 months. That was the price I paid, and believe me....I wanted my horse alive instead of getting qualified. He has a Superior WP with 103 total WP points in all divisions. THAT is enough for me to say, I had a top caliber WP horse....not the fact that I failed to qualify for the WS a second time. Would I have hauled him out to the WS? Heck no....he was good, but not good enough to get our name called. And even though my trainer had two WS belt buckles, I would have had to hire one of the BIGGER names to show him...and they already had their horses.

Now, as to the COST of hauling for points or just showing AQHA in general. I went to the VQHA Classic this year in Virginia....all the Congress and WS people go. I spent $1000 on this ONE SHOW! Two weeks ago, I was at an AQHA show in CT....it cost me $500, between hauling, day fees, entries, stalls. I've been to 4 AQHA shows so far this year.....so do the math on how much I spent. It takes a lot of money, a talented horse, and a talented rider.

You are very young and I admire your determination. But you simply aren't going to get done what you WANT to get down with the horse flesh you have now. This is reality....as depressing as it is. You have plenty of time to graduate from school, get a good paying job, buy yourself a young prospect of AQHA caliber (a mare), get her trained to the hilt (and not by a local trainer)....get a show record and points, and then retire her to be a broodmare.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

Hire. I have a show saddle, I'm price ranging my home state qh shows. I know there are memberships to pay and several other fees. I know that. I have show clothes that I bought at congress and hobby horse, ect. I can't fit into chaps right now. 

When I went to test ride him, they only had two weeks on him. There were 11 years inbetween the show years. They worked him for me before I got on and you wouldn't even know he was off work. He worked just that good just out of shape. We spent two hours doing obstacles and going around cones, over poles, just anything. He's very smart. I wasn't thinking about world till the following year but if he qualified and was ready then fine. As long as the trainer was confident and I am convinced then that's great.
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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

MyLittlePonies said:


> Hire. I have a show saddle, I'm price ranging my *home state qh shows*. I know there are memberships to pay and several other fees. I know that. I have show clothes that I bought at congress and hobby horse, ect. I can't fit into chaps right now.
> 
> When I went to test ride him, they only had two weeks on him. There were 11 years inbetween the show years. They worked him for me before I got on and you wouldn't even know he was off work. He worked just that good just out of shape. We spent two hours doing obstacles and going around cones, over poles, just anything. He's very smart. I wasn't thinking about world till the following year but if he qualified and was ready then fine. As long as the trainer was confident and I am convinced then that's great.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What state do you live in? If you don't want to say it here, you can PM because I can pretty much tell you what AQHA competition is like in each state. Also, because you have never shown AQHA before (correct?), you would qualify as a Novice Amateur, and if you've NEVER shown AQHA before..no matter how "good" someone thinks they are....this is the division you start in. There is a HUGE and I mean HUGE gap in horse flesh and competition between open shows and AQHA shows.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

I give up..You aren't going to listen at all. Good luck.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

If my stud isn't world or congress worthy, where does that leave him? I know how points accumulated. It took a couple years to understand but I didn't have a full interest till now. Would he be fine with a couple superiors under his belt until I get things in order in the right way? I don't want to kill him. I know he isn't a spring chicken but if he was younger maybe it be different. But I'm starting to see reason. Its the matter of my boy now.
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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

Who in the world said you had to kill him?? Just because a horse isn't congress worthy certainly doesn't mean they need to be shipped off to slaughter! Why don't you get him gelded, show him locally, learn the ropes for a couple years, save your money and THEN work your way up (with a different, more qualified horse)?


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

I'm from Indiana. That would be great GotaDunQH. Thanks. When I come back I will PM you, but right now we have trees down and power out.
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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

Kill him in terms of stress.

I think I know where I need to start. Thanks everyone.
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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

MyLittlePonies said:


> If my stud isn't world or congress worthy, where does that leave him? ]


As a very nice locally shown gelding..Very good way for you to get experience too.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

MyLittlePonies said:


> If my stud isn't world or congress worthy, where does that leave him? I know how points accumulated. It took a couple years to understand but I didn't have a full interest till now. Would he be fine with a couple superiors under his belt until I get things in order in the right way? I don't want to kill him. I know he isn't a spring chicken but if he was younger maybe it be different. But I'm starting to see reason. Its the matter of my boy now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A Superior is *50 points* in any one event. Indiana has a pretty good size AQHA affiliate and the competition is steep. I think you should just ride him and enjoy him, nothing more.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

Ok. I have thinking to do. I'm going to start up a new thread so if you want to help me out there that would be great.
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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

As far as you just riding him, stallions can't show in the novice classes. I think you'd be discouraged pretty quickly starting out in the amateur or open.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

If I had him showing him next year, id have his trainer show while I learn the ropes with my Gelding in novice/green/rookie classes. But as I said I'm making decisions and these don't take overnight to make. I might ride in a few qh shows here in Indiana while the year is still young. Still have plenty of state shows left.
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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

It wouldn't be fair to ruin him with his lines while I'm novice written. Gelded or not I want him to be ridden respectfully by a professions till I can do it right, not to say I can't ride, but I'm new to AQHA classes.
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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

In all honesty MLP. Your stallion is not congress or world quality. 

Why don't you find a young filly or mare, train her up and then breed her when she is proven. Start your program there. 99.9% of the breeders I know will tell someone starting out to get good mares and go from there, not start out with a stallion...


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

NdAppy said:


> In all honesty MLP. Your stallion is not congress or world quality.
> 
> Why don't you find a young filly or mare, train her up and then breed her when she is proven. Start your program there. 99.9% of the breeders I know will tell someone starting out to get good mares and go from there, not start out with a stallion...


MLP, this is seriously the best advice you can hear. I think you have a very good "dream" but there are just a lot of things that I don't think you realize you're going to have to do to be successful.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

I was looking into making a thread about that but after a storm tore into us, trees came down and power out for a long time, I had to save the battery for the phones. It was a mess around here. Just driving past town trees were torn out of the ground and in peoples homes. That what happens when there isn't any rain and the largest trees came down. Whew! Long night at my grandma's place. Good thing they were on vacation.
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