# "How to Discipline a Horse Without Using Aggression"



## capercowgirl (Oct 14, 2011)

How to Discipline a Horse Without Using Aggression: 8 steps - wikiHow

Loved this article! It gave a few pointers that I never thought of doing before. Hope it isn't a re-post


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## GhostwindAppaloosa (Jun 3, 2011)

i find the article contradictory. We have what i would consider a herd that runs together of 10+ horses. If you actually ever watched a herd in action you would see that horses rarely ever ask others to respect them. they TELL them. First is a pinning of ears and a warning and than a bite, kick or chase. So the whole article saying not to be firm with a horse but watch herd dynamics goes quite against each other.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Then again, it greatly depends on a person's definition of "aggression". Just because you don't _hit_ a horse doesn't mean that they aren't seeing you as aggressive.

Do you think the buckskin saw the gray as anything other than aggressive, even if his teeth didn't connect?









If a person is trying to train a horse based on the horse's own communication system, then that includes the person "pinning their ears" and, if necessary, striking out with "hooves and teeth".

That's why people who preach natural horsemanship in one breath and tell everyone that you "never ever-ever-ever" punish a horse for _any _reason in the next breath just frustrate me. That's a contradictive way of thinking.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Should read 'How to end up with an ill mannered horse with no respect in 8 easy moves'

Horses don't ask each other nicely for respect, they tell each other and if the other horse doesnt agree then hooves fly.

Reeco is perfectly mannered for me, he stops the second i stop, he never ever nips, bites, kicks or plays up. He doesnt dare leave his stable without permission even if I leave the door wide open. When tied up even if his rope comes undone he will not move away. All because the first time he has tried to nip/kick/bite etc he has had an enormous reaction from me which has normaly included a hefty smack and he has never tried again. he respects me and even comes cantering to the gate when I call (even if he has only been out 20 mins), he gives me cuddles and kisses and always wants to know what i'm up to if he can see me.

The lady who looks after him in the mornings for me will not smack a horse, Reeco already has the measure of her and nipped her yesterday. Nipping is a dominant jesture and shows that he thinks he is higher in the pecking order then her, I've told her to wollop him one if he even thinks about it again and to realy put him in his place then he won't try it again but she won't so I can see this morning arrangement not lasting long as soon he (as a young horse who quite quickly gets too big for his boots and thinks he knows best) will eventualy end up biting her or trying to kick her. Wolloping him is only what a more dominant horse would do, watch a herd: lower ranked horsey nips the boss of the field, boss gives lower ranked horses a good swift kick, lower ranked horsey generaly backs off and gives in.

Not smacking a horse is fine if you have a horse who is naturaly low on the totem pole and happy there. some horses just are and would never try to be dominant. Other horses like mine are naturaly wired to be top of the pecking order and need constant reinforcement of the fact that they are not boss and it is not safe for them to be boss, and even the slightest slip in discipline has them far too big for thier boots and can get dangerous. 

Reeco likes to know his place, and feel safe in that place. If he doesnt know his place he will try to be boss. So in the field one of the older bigger horses is boss, outside of the field I am boss and hence he is a happy smiley well mannered little pony who is a joy to own for me


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I havent' read the article, so forgive me if I say something already stated there, but I think the thing is to never discipline with anger, rather than never discipline with aggressions. They are a bit different. Disciplining with revenge being your motive is a very bad way of working with a horse.
You know, the "I'll show you who not to bite!"
Although, I confess that I sometimes have that way of thinking when I've been tolerant too long and the horse has moved into the "vacuum" I've left, then I get mad at him for overstepping the bounds (that I was too lax about). It sometimes takes feeling angry to make me step up and be firm. This is a personal fault, not a good thing for a horseperson.


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## attackships (Jan 12, 2012)

reading over the wiki i think those are generally good tips.I think the title means how to correctly discipline a horse by being consistent and even tempered. I disagree with not raising your voice though. I don't scream at my horses but I will raise my voice when they are being naughty. I think aggression should at least be matched when correcting, depending on what the horse did. (if it bites me, its getting smacked) but not used to simply "get back at them" like disciplining your horse way later for something he did earlier in the day.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Horses must think we are mad all the time because our ears are always pinned flat back. Except peops with sticky out clown ears.


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## Mstar (Nov 26, 2011)

LOL that was a good laugh


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

I think the article had good intentions, but I too don't think it sends the right message. 

As it's already been pointed out, the lead animal in the herd will TELL the other members how they are to behave. If anyone gets out of line, they'll usually get a warning first. If they don't yield to the warning, they'll get kicked or bitten. End of story. 

That's why I usually roll my eyes when people start saying "Oh you can never hit a horse. They don't understand that and it makes them headshy." It's an incorrect statement. Especially so if you discipline incorrectly. If you deliver the correct "kick" at the correct timing in the correct situation (like that lead herd animal would do), your horse is going to hear you loud and clear. Because you are the lead animal in your herd of two. Your horse needs to trust you and respect you for you to be the leader.


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

I like to remember that horses know that they're in the same herd; their innate sense of justice & proportion in reprimanding is there, & they don't want to lose any herd member for increased odds of survival, so they take care of each other. Yet horses, even though they learn that some humans can "speak horse", are far more skittish as to our intentions when we decide to punish them: In PNH, it's said that a horse doesn't think we're going to hit him when we go to punish; he thinks we're going to _kill_ him! So, punishment isn't used in PNH, only phases of discomfort.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

and hence why there are so many bad mannered parelli'd horses round that end up as project horses.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

I didn't read it, if I'm honest.

I don't use aggression.

I use firm correction.

And if that don't work. Its firmer.

Whether it be voice, stance, leadrope or a boot.

Eh. Let all pat the pretty pohnez now will they kick is- remember.. its only playing.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Northern said:


> I like to remember that horses know that they're in the same herd; their innate sense of justice & proportion in reprimanding is there, & they don't want to lose any herd member for increased odds of survival, so they take care of each other. Yet horses, even though they learn that some humans can "speak horse", are far more skittish as to our intentions when we decide to punish them: In PNH, it's said that a horse doesn't think we're going to hit him when we go to punish; he thinks we're going to _kill_ him! *So, punishment isn't used in PNH, only phases of discomfort.*



Just curious.. what is the phase of discomfort.. i.e what does the person do?

I was thinking is what I do to my horse really painful to him, or purely discomfort in comparison to the double barrel hoof prints she came in with on her chest....


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Northern said:


> ...So, punishment isn't used in PNH, only phases of discomfort.


MIA: What phase of discomfort will I be in if I try to nip you?

ME: That would be the ROOT CANAL phase of discomfort, followed by the "wearing your buttcheeks for earmuffs" phase of discomfort"!

MIA: I don't want to nip you.

ME: Isn't NH wonderful!


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

I just took on a friends horse who had become pushy, disrespectful, and spooky and had her too scared to ride. After our ride today I stopped to say hi to a friend. He kept swinging his head over the top of mind to look at something. The first time, i just put him back. The second time, he ran into my fist. He tried it a third time and I whopped him in the side of the head with the end of my split rein. He didn't try it again. I guess that was the right phase of discomfort for him 

After I unsaddled he was very happy for his after ride head rub, and hung around the gate until we left. 

He is already much meeker to handle. Less ears back, less invading my space. Basically a happier horse because he is learning his place. 

Discipline without anger is far more accurate, as someone mentioned.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Because my horses are usually at liberty when I am with them I will give a warning with a hand up and a firm shhh. If that doesn't get attention then I will approach with a demeanor that someone is in big trouble, which the horse reconizes and moves a step or two away. I do not strike my horses as I've found it's not necessary, altho if it were a him or me situation then it would happen.


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

I also found it very contradictory. They say do what a herd would do but show no aggression. Herd dynamics wouldn't function without any signs of aggression. My boss mare rarely has to do more than pin her ears or stomp a foot to get her point across, but simply because she doesn't follow through with a bite or kick doesn't mean that it isn't aggressive/dominant behavior. 

I rarely need physical force for discipline but if the need is there, it's there. More often than not, body language is enough but there are situations where some physical reprimand does come into play. If one threatens to kick, they can be assured a good crack on the rear is coming their way followed with a you really should choose to "keep your butt out of my space" lesson. If they are a biter/nipper, they can be assured I will be leading them with nails between my fingers the next time. If they bull up and don't want to move forward under saddle, they'll get an over & under with the leather poppers on the end of my reins. None of which will hurt them and all less severe than the punishment they'd get from their own kind. 

That being said, there were a few main points that I do agree with, mainly "control your emotions", "react immediately" and "be consistent". I think those things have a place in every horseman's bag of tricks.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

Aggression, or rather tempered aggression is necessary, not only with children, but also with people.

To spare the rod is to spoil the child.

That said, I think that hitting or striking a horse can often create more problems than it solves, but judicial use of force, applied at the right time solves a lot of problems.

Anger is another aspect, one of the seven deadly sins, and as I have my horses for my pleasure, I try to never be angry at them. Anger is a flaw within ourselves. Learn to deal with your own anger and you've mastered yourself. I still struggle with this, but I can say I've seldom been angry at my horses and don't correct them if I am.


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## nherridge (Oct 30, 2011)

*Dahlia's Training/Updates Thread!*

Nice article.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

When I think Agression, I automatically think of anger, revenge, tit for tat type thinking. So, as far as correcting without agression, I can correct my horse with a whip or carrot stick without being agressive about it. He does something wrong and gets corrected, cause and effect. Controlling your emotions is the main thing that will make your corrections effective. 

One of the best examples I have in my own life involves a new mare. She is one who will test you to see where the boundaries are. The farrier was out and I had been in town so the barn girl was holding the horses for him. I pull in the drive way to see KB, the mare, pulling her all over the yard, practically dirt skiing. 

I jumped out of the truck, picked up my carrot stick and went out and took the lead rope and stood the mare up for the farrier. She decided to try me, and came straight toward me to see if I'd give ground and she could back me away or run over the top of me. I stuck the carrot stick up to warn her but she didn't stop. So, I let her 'run into' the carrot stick and she got popped right on the tear bone. I wasn't angry and I wasn't paying her back or showing her anything, I just let her school herself. She has not tried to be a pill since. She still pushes the barn kid all over the place but that's because the kid tries to out muscle the horse. She's learning though, the horse is an excellent tutor and lets the kid teach herself how MUCH she's not as strong as a horse. LOL!


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

I'm a NH person and I NEVER punish my horse. To be understood as - I never use unnecessary means to burst out my negative emotions in case he hasn't understood something I asked. I will never yank on the reins if he goes faster than I ask, just because I don't recognize that my body and my inner tension has asked him to go faster. I will never whip him just because my body language was imprecise and he honestly did what he understood as being said to him. But I will TELL him to get out of my way, if he tries to be pushy or nippy. I will reinforce my demands with actions, I will smack him, if necessary, if he ignores my voice and body language cues that already warned him to cease his dominant behavior. And, if the situation is as it is, the smack may come by my hand, by a whip or a boot. He is a very dominant guy that still thinks he's a stud, and, no matter how good our relationship is, I won't be letting him stepping on my head just because I love him. That can end with my scull cracked open. So I just choose to correct his behavior firmly, but neutrally, without any negative emotions involved.

The problem with many ill-behaved horses is that their owners don't recognize between punishment and firm, confirming telling, between being too harsh and just being a leader. They are afraid to become violent and wish to be their horses' friends, and just forget that horses are not to be anthropomorphized, they are not humans and don't think like humans would - "Oh, she smacked me when I was just trying to go all over her, I won't be friends with her anymore..." 

Strange. My horse comes running and neighing to meet me when he sees me coming to the pasture.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

YOu make a good point in that people doing ground work, or just in day to day handling of a horse, often inadvertently 'tell' the horse to come closer , and then punish him for doing so. 
I see it a fair amount in lunging or round pen work in that when the horse turns and comes in toward them , the back up while at the same time swinging a whip at the hrose telling him, "no, back up!". Their body was saying "come here".

And your point about the rider's body leaning forward and telling the horse to speed up, then the rider punishing the horse for speeding up is very valid.


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

How about when a horse refuses a jump & the rider yanks on his mouth & whips him? That's an example of _punishment_ that is totally devoid of justice & effectiveness, as well. 

Nice to see people sharing that they know to keep the attitude of justice & to not get mean or mad at horses!

DuffyD, the phases are different depending upon whether you're touching the horse or signalling/driving the horse: w/ touch, it's hair, skin, muscle, bone, for steady pressure. With driving, it's finger, hand, lower arm, whole arm. If the driving must escalate into a whack, the rule is "No highest phase any harder than another horse would do!"

Hope that helps!


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Northern said:


> How about when a horse refuses a jump & the rider yanks on his mouth & whips him? That's an example of _punishment_ that is totally devoid of justice & effectiveness, as well.
> 
> *But that is bad riding, not just horsemanship...*
> 
> ...


Okay.. not saying if my horse bites me I'll bite it back, but the level of correction depends on the level of misbehaviour in the first place? I can relate to that. If she pushes past me to come out of her box, I'll back her up real quick and make her stand, then walk one step at a time. If she bites me, I would use the leadrope on her chest (In all honesty, me using my arms on her wouldn't even be felt ) and make her back up. Like that?


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

This is the bit from the video that I like:

Quote:
_Horses are very sensitive to the body language of those around them. A very talented trainer could control, discipline and reward a horse by body language alone. By imitating how horses communicate together, you can send a very clear message to a horse. Used with judgement, skill and timing, discipline is a form of communication that the horse understands and an aid to learning which will increase the level of respect shown to you by your horse.
_:unquote

This is the element of working with horses which is rarely demonstrated effectively, although if you watch Monty Roberts then you'll see it in action. The skill seems to come with age and experience - it is hard to fake.

Put yourself in the horse's place. The animal can't understand your words. It doesn't recognise you by your clothes, it 'reads' you in the same way as it reads its siblings. 
The animal puts meaning to your posture, your hands, your stance, your pace. 
It recognizes you from a distance by the way you walk. 
It 'sees' in you things you can't see in yourself. 
Finally when you come close, it hears your voice and smells your unique body odour. It can senses your fears - or your confidence. Once you are up on its back its feels your mood and your competence.

All this doesn't come quickly to a rider /owner. It is a unique relationship which builds up between human and equine. Sadly between some horses and some insensitive humans it simply doesn't happen at all. But between some horses and humans everything comes together and clicks.

Such horses can be chastised by the human simply temporarily withdrawing the connection - the empathy - you name it, there is no word for it.

In the same way, you as a human can snub a close friend. Think about it.


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

DuffyDuck said:


> Okay.. not saying if my horse bites me I'll bite it back, *and why not? KIDDING! Some people have bitten back, & it worked, though!* but the level of correction depends on the level of misbehaviour in the first place?* Yes*. I can relate to that. If she pushes past me to come out of her box, I'll back her up real quick and make her stand, then walk one step at a time. If she bites me, I would use the leadrope on her chest (In all honesty, me using my arms on her wouldn't even be felt ) and make her back up. Like that?


 Yep. Actually, I need to clarify that the phases I described aren't just corrective: you start at phase 1 for a request, also. 1-suggest, 2-strongly advise 3-order 4-promise the horse that he'll do it. All without getting mean or mad! 

I'll sneak in here that I saw video of Duffy & you - what a fabulous mover she is & I see a nice partnership!


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Thanks Northern!

I have to say thats what I know most people, here and otherwise, do... even riding.. ask, repeat.... tell ;D...and then do it or pedigree chum muahahaha!


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

my trainer always says that the first time you give a horse a command, you should give it lighter than you think you need to. ends in a very responsive horse.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Personaly I ask once, If I don't get what I want immediately then there will be severe conciquenses.

Means that should anything happen and I need my horse to do something immediately for his safety the he won't hesitate to do it.

EG this morning. It is very very icey outside, trying to get him from his stable to the field across a yard where someone has ever so helpfully tipped a bucket of water (which has frozen solid) was difficult, however he followed me quietly, sensibly and slowly accross the ice. Unfortunatly the TB mare following us out was pratting around, slipped and ended up on her side, I dropped Reeco's rope and went to help safe in the knowlege that Reeco would stay EXACTLY where he was put.

I've also have forgotten to undo legstraps on him and pulled the rug off with them still attached, he paniced about it but because I grabed him and told him to stand, he did (shaking all the while) whilst I untangled him.

I've ridden him on hacks out where I've had him in scarey situations where if he didnt do as he was told instantly he could have gotten badly hurt

I expect and get instant obediance from him. He is a happy, safe and well mannered little pony.


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