# giving ace to calm a nervous horse for a ride



## stevenson

Ace does not always calm a horse. If you have to Ace a horse in order to trail ride, you are endangering yourself and others IMO. Take the time to train your horse.


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## gssw5

See above! Take the time to train the horse.


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## gigem88

Not recommended.


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## blueriver

I suggest look at the feed source .... High protein to a horse is like a kid on chocolate. Yes an everyday working horse needs the energy ... the casual riding horse does not.


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## beau159

stevenson said:


> If you have to Ace a horse in order to trail ride, *you are endangering yourself and others* IMO. Take the time to train your horse.


Hit the nail on the head. 

:clap:


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## BarrelracingArabian

Yes I agree with the above ace is not meant to calm a nervous horse.Besides that there are other products for that such as calm n cool.


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## Cherie

It works if done right.

I agree that more training is a better choice. But, that being said, some horses have high anxiety levels when taken out with a large group of horses they do not know. Just like some people cannot stand large crowds and 'fall apart' when put in the wrong situation, some horses have a tough time being calm in a large group.

Before I gave one ACE, I would take it to some really busy, noisy horse groups practices and tie it there for hours at a time. If it still kept sweating out and having an anxiety problem after several trips to stand tied, you have only 2 choices -- sell it or give it a little ACE.

I do not agree that it is ever dangerous to its rider or others if it is done right. Most people give a horse too much. I have found that 1/2 to 1 cc for a 1000 to 1200 # horse, given orally, will take the edge off of one. Always give it 1 hour before you are going to ride in the large group. Always give it when the horse is quiet and not after it gets excited, mad or anxious. 

Given at this low dose, there is no outside indication to anyone else that the horse has had any medication. They do not stumble or act 'tranquilized' at all. They just are not as nervous or anxious. Ever heard anyone say to someone else, "You need to have a drink before you go to your lesson!"?? Well, maybe Dobbin needs one, too. 

I have seen many horses that went to two or three large trail rides with a 1/2 cc ACE dose and by their 4th or 5th trail ride, they did not need any help. An oral dose like 1/2 cc (about 10% of a full dose) took just enough of the edge off to keep them in a 'responsive' mode and not let them get 'reactive'. 

I would always start out with 1/2 cc orally. If the horse still sweat out and became a basket case, I would try 1 cc next time. If that did not work, I would go back to tying said horse up in busy places with a lot of horses. If the horse still could not take the pressure, he just needs a new Zip Code and/or occupation.

While we are on this subject, I usually give horses 1/2 cc of ACE before their first set of shoes. We handle horses feet and trim them, but their first shoeing can still cause anxiety and set them up to fear or resent subsequent shoeings. So, I give horses, new to shoeing, 1/2 cc before loading them in the trailer for the 45 minute trip to the horse shoeing school in Ardmore. When I unload them, no one can tell they have had a little ACE. They stand quietly for shoeing. The instructors brag on how good they were when I pick them up and how they could not believe it was their first set of shoes. Maybe they would have been just as good without the ACE; maybe not. All I know is that it works so well that I am afraid to not do it. I've only been doing this for at least 30 years. I never do it a second time unless a horse is particularly the nervous type and then I may do it the next time, too. 

If you can make something that much easier on the horse -- why not do it? Once a horse gets into a 'reactive mode', he does not learn a thing except to equate shoeing with a bad experience. We have all had to deal with horses that have had bad shoeing experiences and it took years to get them completely over it.


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## Kristyjog

Cherie you explained that so perfectly 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag

Often times to help a horse settle on a trail ride with other riders, is to let it find it's place in line where it's most comfortable. My good trail gelding would challenge any horse that tried to pass him. He had to be out front and yet my Arabian was content to bring up the rear preferring to not have another horse behind him.


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## Corporal

I have had two horses that I tried to use Ace with for fear issues. If your horse has ANY and I MEAN ANY excitement during one hour after administering ACE it is totally ineffective. It's not like you are using morphine, which would probably knock a horse to his knees. THAT wouldn't be safe to ride, either.
Please don't do this.


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## Cherie

A horse ALWAYS needs to be cool and quiet when it is given and for a least 30 minutes after giving it. It starts to work in 30 minutes (given orally) and is fully kicked in after 1 hour. It lasts around 5 hours. A horse usually acts the calmest about 4 hours in just before it start s to wear off. It wears off gradually and most horses do not get excited after it wears off. You can figure that the last 3 hours of an 8 hour ride has your horse going without 'help'.

If a horse is agitated or hot when it it given, Just don't. It can work exactly opposite and further agitate the horse. It should NEVER be given unless the horse is cool and quiet -- pre-need.


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## Smilie

Sorry, but I would not ACE a horse in order to trial ride him, or ride him period!
Get another horse, or get that horse broke first, or find another job for that horse.
Yes, I know that some people ACE horses, even at shows
I used to always wonder why this one pro, did not need to get up at 5 AM , in order to have a jr horse ready to show in trial at 8AM. Nope, she just rode out, had a smoke, and then did the class.
I then rode against her in a jr horse HUS class. She must have gotten her dose wrong! 
A fellow trainer\, watching the class, told the hsow manager that there was a drugged horse in the class. Since that horse was being offered for sale, the class was videoed by another member. I got a copy of that video, as my horse was in the class.
That trainer had her spurs in that gelding's sides the entire class to keep him going, while he 'hung' the whole time. In the line up, the horse looked ready to fall down, and she got off, literally dragging that horse out of the class 
Sorry, but I do not agree on giving ACE to a horse to ride him, regardless if it 'can be done, watching the dose'
Many think that any horse can make a great trial horse, and this is simply not true, any more than in any other event.Sure, you can get any horse ridden on a trail, but that does not make that horse a suitable trail horse


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## Smilie

Cherie said:


> A horse ALWAYS needs to be cool and quiet when it is given and for a least 30 minutes after giving it. It starts to work in 30 minutes (given orally) and is fully kicked in after 1 hour. It lasts around 5 hours. A horse usually acts the calmest about 4 hours in just before it start s to wear off. It wears off gradually and most horses do not get excited after it wears off. You can figure that the last 3 hours of an 8 hour ride has your horse going without 'help'.
> 
> If a horse is agitated or hot when it it given, Just don't. It can work exactly opposite and further agitate the horse. It should NEVER be given unless the horse is cool and quiet -- pre-need.


Sorry, Cheri, but I truly don't believe it is a viable practice to ACE a horse that you are riding. If you need to do that, in order to trail ride, ask yourself, 'what is the purpose, and am I having fun yet"!


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## trailhorserider

I read this thread this morning and then went riding with a very experienced friend. Someone who's done a lot of trail rides, both for fun and competition. And used to be a horse trader as well. So she's seen a lot. She said she knew of one group of trail riders (who presumably rode for pleasure) that probably about 25% of the horses were given Ace for the rides they went on. These were larger group rides. But still. I'm like :shock::shock::shock:.

Yeah I have trouble with my horses sometimes. Sometimes I am ready to trade them in. But if I had to drug them to ride them I would consider myself a complete failure. 

So I don't know. But if I *personally* felt I had to Ace a horse, I would either not take him on the ride or sell him/give him away. 

Not only that, but in competitive situations I would think it would be totally unethical. And not fair to honest competitors.


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## JCnGrace

Not something I have ever done or even felt the need to do.


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## HombresArablegacy

luke4275 said:


> 2 people I know give their horses ace to calm them before a trail ride.. do others do this? thoughts?


Oh Hell no! Wold you take tranquilizers and then go riding? Safety issues are the same, horse or human.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reiningcatsanddogs

If I understand what Cheri is saying the way she uses ACE is a lot like people are SUPPOSED TO use Ritalin with a kid who has ADHD.

You use the drug to remove all of the distractions, get focus, then you teach coping techniques and how to implement them, then work toward getting the kid off the drug. If you can’t get the focus first, they can’t learn how to learn.

Personally, I don’t see anything wrong with that as long as the drug does not become a replacement for training (like Smile’s friend), or a chronically mismatched rider skill to horse thing, rather than a temporary aid in getting past an emotional bump so the horse can move forward.


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## jaydee

Cherie has pretty much said it all but
Ace (ACP for Brits) has to be given well before you start doing whatever it is that unsettles the horse
You should always test the reaction/effects before setting out on whatever you are wanting to do - it can make some horses worse
It should never be thought of as a permanent fix
I have used it on horses that were extremely anxious due to previous bad experiences and had success with some but none at all with others


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## ecasey

I get the idea that drugging a horse to overcome training issues is not a good idea, and I can't imagine doing it personally. That being said, I always read Cherie's posts and know I'm getting expert advice from someone who not only has been there and done that a thousand times over, but she respects horses and wouldn't do them harm.

There are homoeopathic versions of calming treatments sold at all the horse feed stores. Valerian, Chamomile, Vervain, Hops, etc. I don't use them, but I hear they can be very effective.

Here's a link to an informative article I found.


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## 4HGirl

No matter what side of the Ace vs training debate you're on, if you use Ace or any drug on a regular basis, your horse is only going to build immunity to the drug. This means that someday when you have to give your horse Ace for an actual medical condition, it may not work very well if at all. I don't know how horses filter Ace through their body, but frequent use could also wear down things such as their liver or kidneys. I can see Cherie's point, but I think that medicine is best left used for medical conditions. Anxiety may be a medical condition, but if you are constantly dosing the horse with Ace to combat the anxiety, you are not helping the horse in the long run. Even if there are some things you can't train out of the horse, there has to be a better way to manage their anxiety than just drugging them.


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## Yogiwick

Cherie specifically said NOT to do it regularly.

I'm on the same boat. Personally wouldn't do it unless it was a last resort or desperate situation (or emergency/vet perscribed of course). I can definitely see it's use as a training tool though (in specific instances).

I also disagree with using it every ride. You can't ride your horse you can't ride your horse. No shortcuts.

Yes I've known people who do this...

So ACE for riding- in a case by case situation by situation...maybe. As a quick fix, definitely not.


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## Cherie

> Sorry, Cheri, but I truly don't believe it is a viable practice to ACE a horse that you are riding. If you need to do that, in order to trail ride, ask yourself, 'what is the purpose, and am I having fun yet"!


Sorry, I didn't see this.

Actually, just the exact opposite has been true. Without exception, the people I suggested it to thanked me over and over. One lady told me that the next ride she had with a tiny 1/2cc of ACE, was the most fun and relaxing ride she had taken her mare on. Pulling on a horse that was constantly speeding up or prancing, fighting her head and slinging slobbers was sure not fun. My first suggestion to her was just to sell her horse and get one that did not have as big a motor and did not have anxiety issues with a group of horses. But, she was her 'baby'. She took lessons on her and was learning to jump on her and had no problems until she took her to a different place that had a lot of horses. I told her she could never show her, but she did not want to show, she just loved her and wanted to learn to ride better.

Is it a perfect solution -- absolutely not. But, some people are not trainers and not going to send a horse out for months of training to get them slowed down. A lot of people have emotional attachments to horses that would be a lot better off with a different Zip Code and should be replaced with a better horse -- but it's not in the cards. many horses wouldnot even have anxiety issues if they had a better rider that did not hang on their heads and keep yanking them around. Heck! A lot of riders and horses would be better off if the RIDER had a low dose of ACE.

It should never be used in competition. This would be unethical and against all rules. That is where training and performance is judged, not the level of fun the rider is having. It should never be given in a therapeutic dose by anyone but a Vet. The low dose used for pleasure or trail riding is about 1/10 of a therapeutic dose. It should never be given in that dose (even by a Vet) to a stud or gelding. In order for a horse to build up a resistance, it would have to be used in therapeutic doses and used frequently for that to ever happen. 

But, the people that I have known that had horses that needed it and were not going to go out and get a different horse have thanked me over and over for letting them know how useful it was when given in such a small dose for anxiety issues.


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## jaydee

It isn't (or shouldn't be) about using it day in day out for the rest of the horses life
One example - We used it on a very well bred young horse that the people we bought her from (total amateurs who for some reason thought that owning land and stables and being able to ride their one and only horse that was old and very steady) made them experts who could buy potential competition horses to break and train as an investment 
This particular horse they ran around on the lunge a few times, stuck the tack on it and then tried to get on standing on two metal barrels perched one on top of the other. The horse moved, the barrels tipped over, the rider fell under the horse the horse fell over a barrel and ended up on the floor with the 
helper screaming hysterically throughout.
The took her through a correct lunging program but she was still terrified of anyone trying to get on her but a week on Ace (on our vets suggestion) was enough to calm her down so she could realize that terrible things weren't going to happen to her every time someone got on her and she got over it


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## faye

No I would never ever hack out on a doped horse. I have used it as a training aid on a super nervous horse in the controlled environment of a school but under strict vet supervision and as a last ditch method (if it didn't work the horse would have been shot)
Riding a horse on acp is extremely dangerous! Not only has the horse got impaired reactions which is what you are aiming for but is not good if they trip, acp also puts enormous pressure on the heart, it can also suppress breathing and is known to cause heart attacks and horses can and do just snap out of the tranqued state with no notice or warning perticularly if for any reason their adrenalin kicks in which normally leaves you in a more dangerous position then when you started.
The reason that domosedan was invented was because of the unreliable nature of acp and the side effects of acp.

If your horse can't cope with big groups either don't take it in a big group or go right back to basics and socialise it some more! It is perfectly possible to take horses that are terrified of their own shadow and school them to the point that you can gallop down a beach in a group of 30 without issue. But that takes time and like with children people don't want to take the time or make the effort so they drug them instead!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clava

Agree with Faye, but for me it is totally unacceptable to ride doped horses. I would always pursue correct training, diet and management (magnesium for example can make a huge difference if they are deficient as can 24/7 turnout).


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## faye

Believe me Clava the one time I have ridden a doped horse it was not done lightly and we had tried everything else prior to it and I do mean everything. It was done once, with the vet in attendance and the most we did was walk a few circles with someone on the horses back and someone leading the horse. Non of us felt it would be safe to do any more than that but it was a turning point for that horse.
I certainly would not do it without a vet in attendance nor would I have gone out of the walk! And I certainly wouldn't do it without exploring every other option first
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Delaware Equestrian

I personally think ace is gods gift to spooky horse owners haha. I wouldn't recommend doing it all the time but for certain trail rides and things it works wonders. You really don't need to give them that much just enough to take the edge off. I've done it to take my VERY spooky mare to the beach, and she was an angel. She wasn't dopey and still alert but it just took the unnecessary spook out of her.


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## jaydee

The effect of the Ace (ACP) totally depends on how much you give, when you give it and the horse itself
There's a dealer I knew well in the UK that doped awkward horses all the time We put a horse at that place round a course of jumps with no trouble at all and would have bought him if someone who knew the horse previously hadn't tipped us off - you would never know they were doped - they just ride calm and quiet. That's how come unsuspecting buyers end up with nutcases - Oh he was wonderful when we went to try him and never put a foot wrong
Then when the stuff wears off they don't
If a horse is stumbling, struggling to breath, having heart problems and feels unsteady then its been given too much


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## faye

With acp a heart attack can happen at any dosage! Acp thins the blood, which makes the heart work a lot harder to keep blood pressure normal, then thin blood also means the blood absorbs less oxygen meaning the horses heart has to work even harder.
Often there is no external visible signs that this process is going on!
Heart attacks become more likely the more often you use it.
In the UK acp and domo can only be obtained through a vet, my vet is a major vet hospital will not sell acp unless the horse has a known allergy to domo for exactly that reason!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaydee

I've never heard that it thins the blood - it dilates the blood vessels which reduces blood pressure and increases blood flow to the muscles

As far as I know its only available on prescription in the US as well - though most vets if they know you well enough are happy to let you always keep a supply of that or Dormosedan gel for emergency use - though the latter also comes with a warning to not use in horses with pre-existing atrioventricular (AV) or sinoatrial (SA) block, with severe coronary insufficiency, cerebrovascular disease, respiratory disease, or chronic renal failure. 
Everything has a risk element


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