# Comformation Critique for a Morab



## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

I assume this horse is a rescue. Very thin and a horse this thin is difficult to assess. 

That being said she has nice low hocks and correct legs tho she is a bit light in bone. Her feet need work. Her shoulder angle looks OK. 

Her head is also very large looking and she is a bit hammer headed. If her neck does not fill in after she has some groceries, then she will be Ewe Necked. 

Get some groceries in her and come back in about 4 months (or in the spring) and lets see her then. 

I do like a black horse.


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## SRCM16 (Oct 7, 2011)

Elana said:


> I assume this horse is a rescue. Very thin and a horse this thin is difficult to assess.
> 
> That being said she has nice low hocks and correct legs tho she is a bit light in bone. Her feet need work. Her shoulder angle looks OK.
> 
> ...


Yes she is a rescue, and has gained a lot in just one month. 

I blame her being light boned because she's an half Arabian. LOL. Her feet were all cracked when I got her and were done when I first got her and is due next week.

She is ewe necked but with more weight and muscle I don't think it'll look that bad because its already looking better then when I first got her.

I know! She's solid black too.  Haha I love solid black horses.

This is a picture of when I first got her and then a week later.


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## CocoPazo (Dec 2, 2010)

Well, she's looking much better than when you first rescued her!

Her neck doesn't attache into the shoulder very well, which could be a balance problem if you plan on dressage or something. Her head's a bit large, too, but she has a cute face and a lovely, fluffy forelock! (I love fluffy forelocks. My horse Coco has a few hairs to call a forelock  ). She has fairly steep withers, so be careful when you're choosing a saddle - it could slid and cause back pain and sores, but her hindquarters and withers are about even, which is good.

Overall, cute, eye pleasing. Might make a good trail horse, lesson horse for kids or a small hunter/jumper.

Hope that helped! 

PS: I wouldn't braid her tail like that at this point. It makes everything look too... skinny. No offence.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Nice looking horse, and you've done well with her so far! My only worry would be that her wither is quite a sharp drop so she may find it difficult to do any work on the vertical compared to a horse with a natural sloping wither. Her leg bones (sorry, I know all these in German hah!) are in a good proportion too, but her neck at the moment seems fairly thin. This will just take time to build up!

Good luck, and keep us updated with more pictures!!


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## TheLastUnicorn (Jun 11, 2010)

Elana said:


> I assume this horse is a rescue. Very thin and a horse this thin is difficult to assess.
> 
> That being said she has nice low hocks and correct legs tho she is a bit light in bone. Her feet need work. Her shoulder angle looks OK.
> 
> ...


Actually, from a purely structural standpoint an underweight horse is IDEAL to critique... There is no musclature or fat coverage to distract from how the horse is put together. (check out the sticky at the top of this section to see what I mean)

Musclature can be altered, depending on the structure of the horse, through correct work and enough groceries.... Weight can go up and down... The bone structure of the horse is set after maturity and will not change (barring injury, I guess)

The photos show a weak an unimpressive looking horse... And you can see both breeds of her cross in her structure. That said, with some more weight and SLOW AND STEADY work she will be a new horse come spring... And better still next year.

From a conformation standpoint I don't see a lot really wrong with her. Structurally she has A nice enough shoulder, her legs appear more or less correct, her pelvic angle isn't too bad (especially considering her breed, I have seen a lot worse), to me she could use some more pelvic length (point of hip to point of buttock if you just went "huh?"). Her back length is nice, though her wither is likely to be prominent even after she has filled in some, her LS placement is not too bad. Her neck will fill out (you can already see how much it has changed... It will continue to with proper nutrition and it will finish up much better with correct work), she does have an unfortunately unfeminine head... That won't be likely to change but when her neck fills out it should at least look less disproportionate. 

Overall she isn't as fugly as first glance might make her seem... Do remember that when you are bringing a horse back from emaciation to do any and all work very slowly at first, build it up very very slowly or you can wind up with an injured horse simply due to the fact they don't have the muscle tone and fitness to do the work. I start on the ground, ground driving or leading everywhere, mostly at a walk. (keep them short at first), when I start riding work I first get the walk MASTERED before moving on. A proper walk is hard work, and it will give you a good idea of when the horse is truly fit enough to work on the other gaits without learning bad habits or straining them. 

Good luck with her... And I hope to see updated photos next year showing a very different little lady!


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

I'm hoping that this isn't the morab that you were free jumping over 2-3' fences?

If she is a rescue, she needs to be put into work _extremely_ slowly, and even slower because she has less than perfect conformation. She could be seriously injured if you don't allow her to build up the muscle she needs first before even trying to trot her over poles.


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## SRCM16 (Oct 7, 2011)

CocoPazo said:


> Well, she's looking much better than when you first rescued her!
> Her neck doesn't attache into the shoulder very well, which could be a balance problem if you plan on dressage or something. Her head's a bit large, too, but she has a cute face and a lovely, fluffy forelock! (I love fluffy forelocks. My horse Coco has a few hairs to call a forelock  ). She has fairly steep withers, so be careful when you're choosing a saddle - it could slid and cause back pain and sores, but her hindquarters and withers are about even, which is good.
> Overall, cute, eye pleasing. Might make a good trail horse, lesson horse for kids or a small hunter/jumper.
> Hope that helped!
> PS: I wouldn't braid her tail like that at this point. It makes everything look too... skinny. No offence.


Thanks, the person was working her every day for 1+ hours in one direction in a circle! :shock: Given she was very muscly but if you don't have much feed (especially with three horses) and don't know how to properly train a horse you shouldn't be trying to do anything with it.

I know! They had her forelock cut straight across. :rofl: I gave her some layers so it doesn't look as bad. Haha.

I have a saddle with replaceable gullets, so I don't have to spend oodles of money for new saddle to fit her gladly. 

I'm training her for a kids dressage/jumper pony (she has the perfect temperament for a kid; very kind!).

I only did it for pictures. :smile:



DuffyDuck said:


> Nice looking horse, and you've done well with her so far! My only worry would be that her wither is quite a sharp drop so she may find it difficult to do any work on the vertical compared to a horse with a natural sloping wither. Her leg bones (sorry, I know all these in German hah!) are in a good proportion too, but her neck at the moment seems fairly thin. This will just take time to build up!
> 
> Good luck, and keep us updated with more pictures!!


It doesn't help that she has an ewe neck. LOL.
Thankss, I will



TheLastUnicorn said:


> Actually, from a purely structural standpoint an underweight horse is IDEAL to critique... There is no musclature or fat coverage to distract from how the horse is put together. (check out the sticky at the top of this section to see what I mean)
> 
> Musclature can be altered, depending on the structure of the horse, through correct work and enough groceries.... Weight can go up and down... The bone structure of the horse is set after maturity and will not change (barring injury, I guess)
> 
> ...


Please read above of how the girl worked her every day. :smile:
I just got on her a few days ago for the very first time since I've owned her. We're currently working on steering (its horrible since she was only ridden in a circle in one direction), stopping, go, and back up. 
Thankss I will.


Endiku said:


> I'm hoping that this isn't the morab that you were free jumping over 2-3' fences?
> 
> If she is a rescue, she needs to be put into work _extremely_ slowly, and even slower because she has less than perfect conformation. She could be seriously injured if you don't allow her to build up the muscle she needs first before even trying to trot her over poles.


Read above. :smile:


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## SRCM16 (Oct 7, 2011)

Oh and to Endiku did she look like she was having difficulty clearing the jumps?

...

I wouldn't have raised them if she was, and I wouldn't be jumping her if she wasn't ready. I'd been working her for half an hour since I got her (started out mostly walking until she got more weight to keep her muscles up and start building her neck up more). JS.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

OP- I was well aware of her situation when I made my post.

Riding or running that mare in circles does not count as 'careful and well planned training and conditioning.' In fact, it probably did the opposite. Riding her in one direction would cause the muscles in one side to develope much more than in the other, throwing her off balance and giving her a dominant and weak side. Now, I realize that it was not you who rode her this way, but if even you knew that this way of riding wasn't correct, why are you using it in your argument?

It takes more than just going in circles to prep a horse for jumping of any kind. You need to teach her to move off of her haunches rather than her forehand, and build up her hind end and shoulders. She needs a good topline to be established before she can jump, if you don't want to risk her getting hurt. 

You said yourself that she has very little muscle. IMO before any tough work she needs her basics established (certainly get her direction problems cleared up) and a lot of work needs to be done at the walk and trot before cantering her over jumps. She's also still in need of groceries, but not as much as the muscle.

I'm not saying not to jump her, I'm telling you that you need to get her conditioned first.

Did she look like she was having trouble over those jumps? In short, no. But I didn't tell you that it looked like she was having trouble. I told you that it was dangerous and could hurt her. Asking her to jump straight jumps that are as high as 3' repeatedly on her first day of free jumping is just asking for injury.

How is she telling you that she's ready? Just because she isn't refusing to jump doesnt mean its easy for her. It just says a lot for her personality.

I'll give you this. You have a remarkable little horse. She's definately not what I'd consider pretty, and not anywhere near to dressage or jumping quality in my eyes from afar, I probably wouldn't even jump her at all, even after some bulking up- but she's obviousely got the guts for it. If she didn't balk at all, and was able to jump that well as many times as you sent her over them; I'd say she's got a lot of potential. 

That said, I still stand with the fact that it would be best to stop the jumping and just work poles for now, and spend some time teaching her to ride in frame. Most eventers are started in dressage first to gain the endurance and muscles needed, then learn to jump. I think your mare would benifit from the same type of training. Get another thirty or fourty pounds on her, start from the beginning. She may have more potential that at first glance.


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## SRCM16 (Oct 7, 2011)

Endiku said:


> OP- I was well aware of her situation when I made my post.
> 
> Riding or running that mare in circles does not count as 'careful and well planned training and conditioning.' In fact, it probably did the opposite. Riding her in one direction would cause the muscles in one side to develope much more than in the other, throwing her off balance and giving her a dominant and weak side. Now, I realize that it was not you who rode her this way, but if even you knew that this way of riding wasn't correct, why are you using it in your argument?
> 
> ...


I didn't find out that she'd only ridden her in one direction in circles AFTER I jumped her that height, actually I found out when I rode her for the first time and all she wanted to do was go to the right in circles and not around the entire ring. 

In the picture she has very little muscle, because she'd been in the stall/small paddock getting grain and good hay while only being worked for half an hour. When I jumped her was almost a month after that picture was taken and she had much more muscle. I'd been working on her topline that wasn't all mush like when I got; it was hard.

I am working on her steering (now that I'm riding; I've only ridden her twice) at a walk only, and I won't trot her until she can go around the ring without a big fuss. I'm doing a lot of serpentines, across the diagonal, up centerline, and circles in both directions moving off leg pressure. I'm not even planning on jumping her until late next year. She doesn't have any ribs showing anymore that is why I've started riding her, so no she doesn't need the groceries as much as the muscles anymore. I'd upload newer pictures of her to show her progress but its been raining.


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## jess522 (Feb 19, 2011)

It is not a horse that I would look into. She is something that I would walk right by. Sorry.


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## SRCM16 (Oct 7, 2011)

jess522 said:


> It is not a horse that I would look into. She is something that I would walk right by. Sorry.


Why is that?


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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

Now, this is just my humble opinion, buuut:

When I got Mudpie out of the place that he was in, he had almost zero work and lots and lots of feed. I'd take him for walks (in hand) every day and did a tiny bit of trotting and cantering once he started to make positive progress. Granted, there was emotional recovery involved, but he's a trooper and bounced back fast.

Remember that, no matter how eager you may be to start training her, sometimes it's better to just give her time to recover and start gaining weight.

Mudpie wasn't nearly so skinny, either, yet I waited until he was at a very safely healthy weight before I started to work him again. Maybe it would be best to just let her recover a bit before starting to jump. :]

When she is in a good place with her health and weight, I'd recommend lunging her with properly adjusted side reins. This will help develop her topline and neck, and really put the muscle that she needs on. 

Before doing any sort of jumping, make sure that you do plenty of pole work, and not in a round pen. Riding should start out light. Maybe set up poles on a figure eight pattern? This will really help with the changes of bend and her balance, as well as her skill and confidence over fences. 

If at all possible, make sure to change things up a lot in her scedules, even going so far as to vary week to week. Keeping her interested is important. 

Maybe lunge her with side reins twice a week, and do easy (straight line) pole work once, then hard (figure eight) pole work once. Then go on a trail ride. Then maybe a day off, and then pole-less arena work?

One of the mistakes I did was to walk, trot, and canter Mudpie in both directions every single time I rode him. Now, you need to do that every time you ride, but I was doing it the same way EVERY DAY and he got bored! You'd get bored if you did the same exact thing every day, too. So what I did is I would mix it up and work on other things like transitions and figure eights, and still get all the basic, initial work done, but in a fun way! This really improved his work ethic (which is saying something because he had a great work ethic to begin with) and made him more positive about being ridden. 

When you start jumping her, remember that the maximum you can jump a horse per week is two days. Period. 

I speak from experience, particurally with Mudpie, who came out of a really horrible situation and made a full recovery, minus a fear of red stock trailers, cowboy hats, and sometimes certain body types in men.

I can definately understand that sometimes we get over excited (guilty as charged!) and want to maybe go a teensy bit further than we should. But patience is a virtue and unfortunately it is neccessary in horses. ;D

Trail rides work wonders for both horse and rider morale. And it sounds like minimal round pen work (save for lunging with side reins) would be best for her.

Have fun, love your horse, and remember: A transition is just a glorified half halt! ;D


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## SRCM16 (Oct 7, 2011)

mudpie said:


> I'd take him for walks (in hand) every day and did a tiny bit of trotting and cantering once he started to make positive progress.
> 
> Remember that, no matter how eager you may be to start training her, sometimes it's better to just give her time to recover and start gaining weight.
> 
> ...


That was a well written informative post. 

After a week of letting her hang out, get used to her new surroundings, gain some weight, and get to know me (grooming sessions almost every day for 30 - 40 mins) I walked her in hand on one of the trails around here and she did OK. Only a few "AHHHHH WHAT WAS THAT?!" moments but they were back up rear in fear straight up kind of moments so I decided to wait to take her out again until she was a little less spooky and had more ground work done. I do still walk in hand sometimes (besides walking to pasture and what not of course) when I'm working on her halter skills.

I agree but you also have to think of when I first got her she had rock solid muscles from the girl working her everyday for an hour+ so if I just stopped working her all together and she lost all that muscle she'd be even skinnier then in the pictures. Its like taking a TB straight off the track and not working it while your trying to get weight on. He'll still be gaining weight but he'll look worse once he doesn't have that muscle anymore. Also I've only jumped her once, and don't plan on jumping her again until next month or the month after that depending on how she is improving. I'm focusing on her groundwork and starting her under saddle.

That is good advice, but for others make sure your horse is doing well with lunging in both directions and has some muscle before you put the side reins on! I've seen many people start lunging a horse with side reins, and they wonder why the horse acts badly. Also start at a loose setting then work your way down to a more fitted setting.
I've been lunging her with side reins since the second week she's been her (no not every day, three times a week). 

First ride only lasted 10 - 20 mins, second ride was 30mins. A young/green horse should only be ridden for 30mins a day. You don't send your kid to school at age 3 and expect them to go the full day, do you? Its the same with horses, they need to keep it short and sweet so they are like "oh I might like this!", but if you make them do it for an hour+ they start to not like it. Also its not good for their back to all of a sudden start carrying someone on their backs for a long period of time.

Her schedule is lunge with side reins three times a week (mostly goes Mon, Wed, Fri), lunging exercises that usually happen on Tue (back up, roll back at w/t/c, turn on haunches/forehand both directions, fish hook (make the horse stand then walk around to the other side and pull the horse to you making it bend), and I just introduced side-pass and ground tieing). And Thur I am starting to ride her for half an hour. She gets the weekend off.

Take a green horse that's been under saddle twice on a trail ride with little steering? :shock:

I only jump my horses once a week, and it usually ends up being every other week or so.


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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

Why thank you.  I tried.

It sounds like people are just responding a bit hastily due to misinformation. It sounds like you know what you're doing. 

Mudpie runs with 12 other horses on 200 acres, so he always stays in good muscle and condition, plus I ride him pretty much daily, so we've got this down.  I definately understand about the trail riding without steering. Proooobably wouldn't be the greatest idea on the planet. I only say trails because getting them out there really helps with their mindset, work ethic, and it's actually a great place to take a wittle pony vacation. 

Once she gets better at steering, something that has improved Mudpie 10,000% is working on transitions. Halt-walk, walk-trot, trot-canter, and downwards. Walking, you ask for a trot. If she doesn't spring right up there into a trot, bring her back to walk and do it again. They won't get frusterated if you present it the right way.  And it really got Mudpie thinking, and BAM everything was better, the gaits, his attention, everything. Definately made my day. 

As far as the side reins go, I completely agree. Definately not saying "Get out there, crank 'em down, and chase her around like a madwoman!" which I have also seen.  It just really helps with the muscles along their topline and their neck, as well as with the acceptance of the bit and collection. But ONLY when done properly!

For getting weight back on her, which you seem to be doing quite well, may I suggest, if it is available in your area, EGM Stable Mix? When Mudpie was on it, he not only really packed on the pounds (which is saying something because he is a seriously hard keeper) but his coat also darkened and became more healthy, and there was clear improvement in his health. It was just a small change nutritionally, and WHAMO he just got schmexy!  That's Elk Grove Milling Stable Mix.

 I do wish you the very best of luck with your darling little girl and I hope that you will keep us informed of her progress!! 

She looks like a pretty little girl, a


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## SRCM16 (Oct 7, 2011)

mudpie said:


> Why thank you.  I tried.
> 
> It sounds like people are just responding a bit hastily due to misinformation. It sounds like you know what you're doing.
> 
> ...


LOL. No problem. 

We all come to here to learn, right? I mean I sure the hell did. LOL. Some people have good intentions that come out bad, and some just are mean. 

**** I wish I had your pasture acreage! :shock: Must be a pain to have to catch him in the big of a turn out or do you use a wheeler to get him? I would. ROFL. I'm too lazy to walk that much. 

I'm working on getting her "bomb proofed" in the arena right now with my "car wash" obstacle, tarp, "flying" bag (attached to my lunge whip hehe), & can crunching assistant. LOL. Tomorrow if its good I'm getting her used to passing cars because even though I live on a dirt road there are some people that use it and I want her to be not going "OMG" while I'm on her. Hopefully I'll be taking her on a trail ride by the end of next month. 

I'm doing that on lunge right now. I make her trot a few strides then bring her back to a trot, then make her trot again after a few walk strides. Same thing at canter. She's pro at the walk/trot, not so much at canter but she's coming along nicely. Its even helped slow her canter down a lot! 

This is a little off topic, but I was watching a documentary today and found out about some VERY harsh ways to get a horse's head down. The worst one was hock hobbles (pictured below) and was astonished at this! I hate hobbles in general but these made me sick.









You see how its hooked to the bit so every time the horse makes a step it forces the horses head down? :evil::evil::evil:

Hmmmm.. I don't know I'll have to ask around. I have her on Tractor Supply's (don't know if that's the actual brand or not but its the only one tractor supply sells with beet pulp in it) Senior Beet Pulp grain with 1/2 a cup of corn oil for her coat. I'm ******* what can I say. :lol: She's showing no ribs anymore! And you can't feel them at all.  I'll have to get some pictures tomorrow of her if it isn't raining. 

I will, thankss.


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## SRCM16 (Oct 7, 2011)

Finally stopped raining and was amazing out today! Here are some pictures of her.


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## ScharmLily (Nov 23, 2009)

Wow, she has really come into herself! She looks great, and I think you have done a really good job taking everything one step at a time with her.


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## SRCM16 (Oct 7, 2011)

I know! She went from hay bell to the extreme with some ribs to no ribs and no hay belly. LOL. Thankss I can't wait till hunting season is over & I can rider her again! The gun shots scare the sh*t out of her so I don't want to be on her when that happens. :lol:


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## TheLastUnicorn (Jun 11, 2010)

See.. I knew she wasn't a ugly one! LOL

Actually, some more work on her and she could be used as an example for a conformation tutorial... Structure vs muscle condition... A lot of people find it difficult to see the bones under the horse's condition, your early photos make the bones easy to see, your last set can help show the muclature that goes over them.


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## SRCM16 (Oct 7, 2011)

LOL. Nope, just a diamond in the rough. 

If you want to you can use the pictures, just credit my beauty to me.  I'd do the conformation thread thing but I don't know anything about it.


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