# Stallion got out and my mare got bred...need opinions



## suzyQ (Sep 19, 2011)

Hi ~
Here's the nutshell.... at the barn where I keep my mare in pasture, one of the barn owner's stallions evidently got out last year and my mare ended up pregnant. When my mare started getting big i repeatedly asked the trainer/barn owner if she could possibly be pregnant and I was repeatedly told no. The last time I asked was about 3 weeks before a filly appeared in the pasture. Turns out that the barn owners knew that the stallion got out but never told any of us mare owners. I had plans to take my mare to a couple of shows this fall which I now cannot do and also had poor riding with her before the baby came. The barn owners (who I also purchased my mare from) had bred her before and I can't believe they didn't know she was pregnant. (btw - I'm a first time horse owner who knows nothing about breeding and babies.) I realize that stallions can get out - I'm upset that they never told me and even after the filly was born never came to me to apologize.

So now - they think I should still be paying them board while the baby is with her. I think I should have to until the baby is weaned since now my horse is not available for me to ride. Would appreciate any comments.
Thanks!
suzyQ


----------



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

I'd be finding another barn and moving my horses ASAP.

They knew your mare was bred and LIED to you about it, knowing as a first time owner you'd believe them and not do the proper prenatal and postnatal care for your mare. 

They're scum, and you need to get your mare and foal away from them. Seriously, what_ more_ do you need to know?


----------



## Ink (Sep 25, 2009)

I agree with Speed racer 100%. You should be looking for a new place to board. That kind of behavior is inexcusable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Scoope (Oct 19, 2010)

Im not sure how it works - but in this situation, who's responsibility is the foal? If you were to move your mare, is the foal the stallion owners property or the mare owners? I would have thought the foal was your property (as the mare owner) but as the breeding was not approved and the result of the stallion being allowed to get out would it make it the stallion owners property?

just curious is all.


----------



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Foals belong to the mare owner regardless of the circumstances of the breeding, unless otherwise stipulated in written contractual form.


----------



## Scoope (Oct 19, 2010)

thats what I thought , but if your mare was bred without permission resulting in said foal than is that something you can hold the stallion owner liable for financially as it was done without your permission (presuming you could prove that). Given that their actions have directly impacted in your plans to show etc and the use of your property, could you - if you were unwilling to take responsibility for the resulting foal - force them to resume responsibility for the animal? or are you stuck with the outcome of their actions?

which isnt to say that you would not want to take the foal too at all ! , im just curious as to how it would work.


----------



## kayleeloveslaneandlana (Apr 10, 2011)

I agree, find a new place to board asap. In till you are able to find another place to board are you able to take the mother and her foal to your house?


----------



## suzyQ (Sep 19, 2011)

that was the part I forgot to mention... when I bought my mare from the barn owner there a breeding option in the sale agreement - so I am giving the filly to them. (I'm not in the market for a baby) so I'm kind of stuck there until the filly is weaned. But I don't think I should have to pay board while my horse is not available to me to ride. I have offered to meet them half way and pay half board - just so it's not so contentious. But the barn owner is balking at this.

As soon as that baby is weaned we are sooo out of there.


----------



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Suzy, you should pay board on your mare ONLY, not the foal. Since there was a breeding stipulation in your purchase contract, they should have been responsible for her prenatal/postnatal care, which I'm going to presume she didn't get.

If you want to get contentious, you could move the horse and then file grievances against them in court for loss of use, as well has improper care during her pregnancy.


----------



## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

Agree with the above. However, loss of use of the horse for riding bears little relation to whether or not you pay board on it. If the horse were to get injured and had to be out of work for six months, you would not get free board for those six months. At least not at any "normal" boarding stable.


----------



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Agreed, Silver. 

She should still pay board for the mare but I sure as heck would balk at paying anything for the foal, especially since they were underhanded about the mare being bred in the first place.


----------



## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

If you had direct expenses related to their negligence you could file a suit in small claims court. If you made money riding in shows or demos in some way you would have a claim. Find 3 places that will lease a horse of similar skills and training as your horse and get three price quotes for a lease for the amount of time your horse will be out of commission. Send the stallion/ barn owner a bill for the average of the three with a 30 day time limit. If they dont pay, go to court house and file a case in small claims court. Wont cost much and as long as you have your estimates paper work and your act together you should prevail. At least for the lease amount.
I won a similar judgement when someone damaged my bass boat and I was unable to fish for a few weeks. I got 3 estimates for renting a bass boat while mine was being fixed . I was awarded the middle amount.

In the mean time you still owe board. Its a separate issue.


----------



## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

suzyQ said:


> that was the part I forgot to mention... when I bought my mare from the barn owner there a breeding option in the sale agreement - so I am giving the filly to them. (I'm not in the market for a baby) so I'm kind of stuck there until the filly is weaned. But I don't think I should have to pay board while my horse is not available to me to ride. I have offered to meet them half way and pay half board - just so it's not so contentious. But the barn owner is balking at this.
> 
> As soon as that baby is weaned we are sooo out of there.


Not sure what your agreement was but usually you have to rent a mares uterous when you do not own the mare and they pay all mare expenses including board for the time the mare is bred until weaning. The part that I find really irritating is when she was bred she could have been given a shot by the vet to prevent her from getting pregnant.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

How old is the foal? Since they bred the mare without your permission I would tell them that the foal is their responsibility and if they don't want to raise an orphan, they can eat my mare's board fees. If they balk at that, find a new place to go, tell them to get a nurse mare or an igloo and I'd be out of there in NO TIME at all.


----------



## BaileyJo (Aug 23, 2011)

Okay, I am clueless here and need educated. How much more space can an unweaned foal take up that you have to pay extra board? Aren't they with their mamas anyway? As you can see I have not experienced foal raising 101. 

That's really too bad and you are lucky that your mare or the foal did not suffer or become ill from giving birth to an unexpected pregnancy. I can't believe how often this happens.


----------



## gigem88 (May 10, 2011)

Makes you kinda wonder if the stallion was intentionally let out of his stall/paddock instead of escaping accidentally?! But that is just my suspicious nature!


----------



## Amba1027 (Jun 26, 2009)

gigem88 said:


> Makes you kinda wonder if the stallion was intentionally let out of his stall/paddock instead of escaping accidentally?! But that is just my suspicious nature!


I was wondering this as well. Knowing that they would get the resulting foal I was wondering if maybe this wasn't a accidental escape.

Also I wonder if you could do what Joe said for the cost of leasing a horse but also the cost of renting a broodmare or whatever. Usually one would have to pay for either the foal or the use of the mare so since this was done without your consent I would think you could get something for that as well.


----------



## Red Gate Farm (Aug 28, 2011)

You should still be paying the regular board on your mare; however, you should not let them talk you into paying anything above that amount because she has a foal at side since it was their negligance which caused the foal.

You now see their true colours. They got a free foal and you lost time riding and enjoying your mare. I would seriously consider moving the mare when the foal is weaned.


----------



## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

well I dont think anyone would go through much trouble for a free foal, unless its some kinda champion bloodline, untrained foals are a dime a dozen. While the owner is perfectly in her rights to take her mare and leave, it isnt the foals fault what happend and it doesnt deserve to be abandoned or not get basic care until weaning. 
Id take both, I doubt your lease agreement covers breeding against your will or knowledge. I'd find another barn and take both animals, then suit them for what leasing a horse would cost.


----------



## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

thesilverspear said:


> Agree with the above. However, loss of use of the horse for riding bears little relation to whether or not you pay board on it. If the horse were to get injured and had to be out of work for six months, you would not get free board for those six months. At least not at any "normal" boarding stable.


An injury is not the same thing as a whole entire new life added to the mix!

However, if the mare we breed is a riding horse, we start them back in conditioning at two-three weeks post foaling. So OP, you are not out riding for a long period of time.

Any extras the mare needs to maintain weight though should be the responsibility of the stallion owner.


----------



## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Well, since the mare was bred without your permission, *I would be presenting all vet bills accrued during the gestation to them.* I would pay her board, but not the foal board. I would present the foal to them at weaning, if you don't want it. 

I would also move her to a barn with more responsible managers.


----------



## Prinella (Jul 12, 2011)

I would definately be moving the mare after the foal is weaned. I would also be asking for financial repayment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Left Hand Percherons (Feb 1, 2011)

suzyQ said:


> that was the part I forgot to mention... when I bought my mare from the barn owner there a breeding option in the sale agreement - so I am giving the filly to them.


What does it state in the breeding option? The senario that you're discribing can't be anywhere within those guidlines therefore their claim to the foal is a non issue. GIVING them the filly? Please don't say or agree to anything with these people. Consult a lawyer yesterday.


----------



## livestoride (Mar 30, 2011)

I agree that you should move your horse ASAP. I wouldn't want to risk another "accidental" stallion escape to my mare's pasture. 

As for board - you still need to pay for your mare since she would be there regardless of breeding. Any fees added to her regular vet/farrier and feed should be their responsibility. I have never boarded a foal, so I can't comment on the norm for that.

If it was my mare I would definitly not give them the foal. They are irresponisble and don't deserve the foal. If you can't/don't want to raise a second horse, then SELL the foal once it is weaned. If you don't mind the stallion owner's, then SELL to them. There is no way that any lawsuit they brought could hold when the pregnancy was not of your consent.


----------



## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

Honestly, id take the mare and foal away. Then sell the weanling so the BOs don't get anything out of the deal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

livestoride said:


> I agree that you should move your horse ASAP. I wouldn't want to risk another "accidental" stallion escape to my mare's pasture.
> 
> As for board - you still need to pay for your mare since she would be there regardless of breeding. Any fees added to her regular vet/farrier and feed should be their responsibility. I have never boarded a foal, so I can't comment on the norm for that.
> 
> If it was my mare I would definitly not give them the foal. They are irresponisble and don't deserve the foal. If you can't/don't want to raise a second horse, then SELL the foal once it is weaned. If you don't mind the stallion owner's, then SELL to them. There is no way that any lawsuit they brought could hold when the pregnancy was not of your consent.


Oops! Missed your post! I agree.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Maverick101 (Nov 8, 2009)

I agree...you're still responsible for your mares board. 
Now the way I do it (and most barns in my area), the foal is no extra cost to the owner until weaned...as until then the mare and foal are considered "one horse"...it isn't until such a time that the foal requires its own stall, separate handling, and pasture space that you should be charged additional fees.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

This has been bugging me for a while and I've thought this out more clearly. 

Basically what happened here is that the stallion owners have used this mare on a breed lease without the owner's knowlege or permission. Stallion gets out, mare gets bred and is found to be pregnant. Since they lied and denied knowlege of the incident the best option wasn't open to them, just buy a shot and cause the mare to abort in the first 15 days. So the pregnancy goes on until the mare delivers a foal. 

If someone wants to use one of my show mares to carry a foal for their stallion we do a breed lease. They pay for all BOARD, VET, FARRIER costs during the pregnancy and while the foal is still on the mare AND they buy Major Medical & Mortality insurance on my mare with me as payee to cover any losses that may arise from the pregnancy or delivery of said foal. They also pay me an agreed upon sum for the use of the mare (taking her out of the show ring) while she's bred and nursing the foal. My breed lease fees START at $4000/year so an 18 month breed lease is $6000 paid UP FRONT before any breeding is allowed to occur. 

In no way, shape or form do I owe the stallion owner a breed fee, board or anything else for allowing them to impregnate my mare. I'd be doing up a bill and presenting it to this extremely irresponsible stallion owner, my mare would have been moved by now and the unwanted foal left for them to figure out how they're going to raise it. I would REFUSE all signatures on any breed registration paperwork (assuming this stallion is even registered) and I'd notify the breed registry of the circumtances surrounding this foal's registration and get it flagged so they can't just forge a signature. Until and unless all my fees were paid to my satisfaction they would have a grade foal that could not be registered and I'd be watching to see if the foal got reg'd and I'd force the registry to pull the papers if they did. 

What this stallion owner did was extremely irresponsible to say the least, and beyond sneaky and dishonest to really dish it out. If my stallion got out and bred one of my boarder's horses I'd be taking the mare to the vet for a shot QUICK or if the mare owner declined and said they'd keep the foal, I'd be signing the stallions service certificate immediately on the birth of the foal and there'd be no silliness about board for that foal until it was weaned, owing me a stud fee or any other **** nonsense. That mare owner would be entitled to the free breeding fee and the paperwork to register that foal for FREE because of my ineptitude at keeping my stallion contained. 

As soon as I knew my stallion had gotten out and to a boarder's mare or, God Forbid, more than 1, I'd be contacting all the mare owners and figuring out what their wishes were AT MY EXPENSE, either to provide the vet care to terminate the pregnancy or to provide the free breeding and/or paperwork for the foal's registration. If the mare owners did not want the foals but because of personal belief would not allow termination of the pregnancy then it would be ON ME to provide the pregnancy related vet care for the mares and to provide for the resulting foals until they were weaned and could be sold. Once weaned, then my obligation to the mare would end but NOT to the foal, it would be my responsibility to care for until sold. 

Bottom line the STALLION OWNER is at fault here, not the mare owner who never asked for the breeding of her mare. I own more than 1 stallion and have NEVER 'accidentally' bred a boarder's mare.


----------



## caseymyhorserocks (Apr 5, 2010)

Move your horse as soon as possible... And you should only pay board for mare- NOT FOAL!! It should be viewed as like, the foal is yours, my mare is mine, why do I have to pay for something I dont own?


----------



## THN (Oct 11, 2011)

If you are paying board for the foal then the foal must be yours... or else some crazy logic says that other people will pay the the living expenses of my horse. If your paying board i would write them a letter saying that if I are paying board then i'm assuming the foal is mine. if this is not the case than please respond within x number of days. Move your horse and the foal to a better place. if they claim the foal then send them a bill for the board you have been paying for them as well as any other expenses you have had from the foal. after that i would contact local animal rescue organizations and explain the situation and their neglect of your horse(s).


----------

