# Horses + Cows on over 20 acres- impact?



## UberKio (Jan 30, 2015)

Hello everyone! This is my first post!
So I recently move back to my home town in to my Grandparent's home on 54 acres of land and can FINALLY have a horse again! I had to sell the horse I had as a teenager when I moved out of my parent's house and couldn't afford him anymore. Now I'm 32, and finally in a good spot! We are basically care takers of the property as no one in the family is willing to sell, since it means so much to all of us (it's been in the family for 5 generations).
So out of the 54 acres we have about 20 acres, possibly 25 that are pasture. For several years, a neighbor has been keeping 5-6 cows on the land in exchange for bush-hogging the rest of the land twice a year. He fertilized and reseeded last year, which cost something to the tune of $2000 from what he says.
He is currently rotating the cows between our fields, my uncle's field down the road, and now my cousin's field which is about 20 acres across the creek from our land, which he just fenced in today.
Because I'm neighborly, I didn't want him to show up one day and there be a horse in the field with his cows, sharing their hay, so today I helped with the fence building and asked him and his wife if they would be alright with it. And what I thought would be no big deal has suddenly turned in to the most grave matter EVER. She was not at all down with it (he kept mostly quiet) and was very obviously not happy about it at all, and made it very clear that it wasn't something she wanted to do.
So outside of the obvious problem of them acting like they own the place, which was solved when I spoke to my family who actually owns the land, and they gave me the green light, and basically said the cow owners could just deal with it....I'm really curious if they have a leg to stand on in this argument? On the 20 acre plot where I would like to keep my horse...would a maximum of 2 horses really be that big of a problem? Would they ruin it completely for the cows who spend fall and winter there (eating mostly hay)?
Sorry this is so long! I just wanted to make sure I got all of the details in there!


----------



## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

Welcome!

I have a horse and also 17 cows. They all share a pasture and eat the same hay. They get along fine IMO. 

Is there any way you can fence off a couple acres, like 10 acres, for the horses? 5 acres in one pasture and 5 in another and rotate them as they do the cows. I am sure 5-6 cows will survive on 10 acres for a period of time since the guy rotates them. 

If the people are not okay with the horses with the cows, fence off some land because its YOUR land.


----------



## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

Did they elaborate on why they did not want to do this? A few things that come to mind for me are: liability issues if the horse gets hurt by a cow (and vice versa); having to provide extra hay for the additional mouth(s) to feed; horse(s) running cattle off the feed. If these were the concerns, how would you respond to them (I know it's your land, but these are issues that should be considered and dealt with)?


----------



## UberKio (Jan 30, 2015)

Roman said:


> Welcome!
> 
> I have a horse and also 17 cows. They all share a pasture and eat the same hay. They get along fine IMO.
> 
> ...


Honestly, I'll probably end up doing something like that, and paying them the difference that they spent on that area in fertilizer and seed  I was really just curious to see if anyone could tell me any real reason why in such a large area that a horse or two would be a huge problem. It will probably work out better in the end to just divide the field, but it's such a shame!


----------



## UberKio (Jan 30, 2015)

Chevaux said:


> Did they elaborate on why they did not want to do this? A few things that come to mind for me are: liability issues if the horse gets hurt by a cow (and vice versa); having to provide extra hay for the additional mouth(s) to feed; horse(s) running cattle off the feed. If these were the concerns, how would you respond to them (I know it's your land, but these are issues that should be considered and dealt with)?


Apparently she was really concerned about the horses destroying the grass. I understand that they are tough on grass...but 20 acres? That seems like a stretch. I make it clear that I could gladly pay for hay, and with such a large area, we could have several different feeding areas. As for the animals hurting each other- I don't think they even thought about that, and neither did I. Due to the size of their cows (freaking HUGE), and the fact that I'm looking in to getting a Haflinger, I think I'm the one who would have to worry in this situation, but honestly I'm not. If they had concerns about it, I would be willing to sign an agreement to cover injuries to their cows if they did the same for me, and really I think that's the best that we could do. 
Thanks for the advice!!


----------



## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

If they are bushhogging it anyway, the pasture will be fine. The only thing that horses do bad to a pasture is to selectively graze so that the weeds are left over. If you keep it mowed and don't overgraze, you are good to go.

One issue I have had with pasturing horses and cattle together is that occasionally the horses will chase the cows through the fence. We also once had a bull knock a horse over for trying to steal his food. The horse was ok and she also stopped picking on the bull.

The easiest thing is just to fence off a small area for your horses. They will be easier to catch in a smaller area anyway.


----------



## Bellasmom (Jun 22, 2011)

A horse eats 1 1/2 as much forage as a cow, two horses would then take the place of two head of cattle. A horse also bites the grass off much closer to the ground than does a cow. What part of the country are you in? That makes a huge difference in terms of how much grazing 20 acres will support. That being said, I would be more concerned about the horses pestering the cattle (I have one mare we can't pasture with our cattle for this reason, she runs the calves). Also be aware that a lot of feed made for cattle can be quite dangerous for horses.


----------



## karliejaye (Nov 19, 2011)

I too am curious where you are at. In my neck of the woods, 2 horses (about 3 AU or the impact of 3 cattle) would be a big impact even on 50 acres. As Bellasmom pointed out, horses graze differently than cows, eating closer to the ground, taking out the crown of the plant (the part it regrows from). Cattle can't graze that low.


----------



## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Bellasmom said:


> I would be more concerned about the horses pestering the cattle (I have one mare we can't pasture with our cattle for this reason, she runs the calves). Also be aware that a lot of feed made for cattle can be quite dangerous for horses.


Now that you mention it, I had a horse that would try to steal calves and use them for her own baby. We had to separate her out because she wouldn't let them near their own mother and she had no milk.

About cattle feed, even a small amount of the additive monensin can kill a horse.


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Horses and cattle can graze well together - the situation mentioned by a few others also works in reverse as the cattle eat the long grass that horses refuse to touch.
If they're dairy cattle then I can understand why a farmer wouldn't want to have horses in with them that might set off any running around, I know Dairy farmers that won't even keep their own horses in with the cows for that reason
Your horses would do fine on just 4 or 5 acres so I think it might be a good time for the adults to sit down and discuss that with these people.
It would worry me that they're calling the shots on what happens on land that isn't actually there own. I hope your family has a formal legal written agreement with them


----------



## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I just reread your original post. People that lease land get so that they think that they own it. We took back a lease from some deer hunters because my son wanted to move home and live on that piece of property. 

Those guys were furious. They claimed to have spent a fortune on the land. They tried to claim we owned them something. But we didn't. We own the deed.

If you want to reclaim 5 acres, I would cross fence it and use it. Out of courtesy, I would notify the guy.


----------



## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Horses and cattle are complementary on most pastures. They prefer different pasture species and growth stages. In the wild, there are a multiple herbivore species in any one given area, exploiting slightly different niches, e.g. zebras, antelopes and giraffes grazing the same range. When we graze just one species of herbivore on a pasture, we are not actually getting the most out of that pasture, and we are more likely to have the pasture change gradually towards species that the animals grazing don't like (because they keep eating what they prefer and there are no other grazing species to create a more balanced scenario).

We find horses, donkeys and cattle graze together fine and even socialise a little with each other. The horses are always the bosses here and occasionally the alpha horse will herd the cattle spontaneously for fun. The cattle get a few minutes of exercise that way but no scrapes and no stress (it's play, and the horses and cattle do nose-to-nose "hellos" from time to time as well). Sometimes when I ride my horse when the cattle are in a playful mood, they jog along for fun, which is really hilarious to watch.

We have around 12ha of pasture and 50ha of remnant bushland. Our pasture is fenced into two 2ha paddocks and an 8ha "common". Having several paddocks avoids set stocking the pasture - rotational grazing is better for pasture productivity and composition, weed suppression and parasite control. You can rotate the horses and cattle together, but if you don't want to do that, it's best to follow the cattle with horses and then rest. Cattle prefer longer pasture and horses like the short pasture they leave behind. Cattle can't deal with lawn-short pasture as they have no upper incisors - horses can.

Horses don't depress the cattle stocking rate nearly as much as some people think, especially when you run fully grown horses, rather than a breeding herd. Generally speaking, a lot of people will run breeding or growing, fattening cattle with a couple of adult horses, which by comparison eat very little, especially if they are rugged in cold, windy, wet weather.

Fencing off small horse-only paddocks is a solution, but will reduce the food available to cattle far more than co-grazing or rotating them will, and degrade the pasture more where the horses are continuously kept.

Horses, cattle and donkeys co-grazing at our place:




























Jess the herding dog shows up in the last photo.


----------



## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

...and just for entertainment, our alpha horse spontaneously herding the Angus cattle we had before the current round of Friesian steers...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S8noWo0ta0


----------



## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

... a cautionary PS: If you have horned cattle, don't keep them in small paddocks together with horses. A neighbour had a yearling horse fatally gored that way 30 years ago (were yarded together and the horse couldn't get away).


----------



## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

My horses ran with the beef cows on98 acres until I moved away from home and took them with me. It was no big deal. Milk cows might be if the horses tried to herd them.

Cows eat the grass shorter than a horse can so, it's the horse coming up on the short end of the grazing stick if pasture is limited.

Me thinks the cow owners have come to view the land as theirs since they have been doing the maintenance and don't want to share what is not theirs:shock:

The bus hogging is a given , imho. If they didn't talk to your family about reseeding and just went ahead and did it, that was wrong on a few counts.


I hope things can be worked out, agreeably and your horses can have their full 20 acres


----------

