# Charlie Snell



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Subbing to come back too, but I can say from skimming them that while I don't know anything about this guy I like how he thinks! Thanks for sharing!


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I will have to bake some cookies for those that actually make it through that.


----------



## Beling (Nov 3, 2009)

Great descriptions, I could visualize almost everything.
He sounds like not only a good teacher of horses, but good with communicating with people too. Thanks so much for sharing! Next time I hope you can take a horse with you!


----------



## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

It was a great description. I may use the mounting block figure 8's


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

thanks to amyone who read all that.


----------



## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I'm just glad to see a topic on some other trainer then CA! Thanks for that!
Far as the info, not really new or different, except in a few areas, and that is okay, as we all take from each clinic as to what works for us.
A lot of what he is saying, is basically just the same thing ,accepted as good horse training, in perhaps a slightly different way.
Of course, you can't start in the beginning, and have a horse stop just off of seat and legs, any more then you can train any horse from the start,doing any maneuver, on a loose rein, even if that is the end goal of riding that horse as a 'finished horse!
A correct stop, is a hind end stop, and bit barrier teaches the horse to stay light in front, thus off his front end, while engaging his hind end. EVENTUALLY, you can then stop the horse off of seat and legs alone, with the horse respecting an 'imaginary bit barrier
Never getting into a pulling match with a horse, is a basic principle. You hold, and use legs, as needed
Far as the mounting block, as they say, there is more than one way. I just teach a horse a solid respect of the word'whoa'. If they swing hips away, ect, while learning, even if I still can get on, I don't. I take them away from that block, correct by making the horse back, or do several hard turns over the haunches, and take them back, position and give them a chance to do the right thing-with whoa meaning the entire body does not move

Far as the entire concept of teaching a stop, having the horse consider that bit barrier as an invisible wall, holding, never pulling, I think the video by Larry trocha , that I have posted before, teaches that concept as well as any I have seen.


----------



## TuyaGirl (Mar 14, 2014)

tinyliny said:


> thanks to amyone who read all that.



My pleasure, was a really nice read :smile:


----------



## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Far as three stride transitions, one can apply, the 'not always
When ahorse gets to a certain level of training, there are times you ask for a stop to lope transition. What is important in transitions, is to teach a horse to execute them by driving up from behind, versus trying to use forward momentum to fall into them
A good example is a horse picking up the lope by trotting faster and faster, until he falls into it, versus a horse rocking weight back and driving up into that lope departure from behind
Flexing ahorse's head and neck, endlessly , while standing still, I agree is over done by many NH trainers in particular, and done incorrectly, can be a negative, but it is not 'one or the other', as far as training, anymore then a counter canter as a training exercise, and does not replace a correct lead canter.
Yes, when you are teaching 'guide' to a horse, you only want to tip the nose slightly in that direction of turn, and then have the rest of the body follow through in correct alignment, using legs as needed, to teach this
Because you teach a horse to give his head, as you might need to do, in something like the one rein stop, does not mean the horse then will just over react, versus respond to a very light rein cue when ridden, following through with his entire body
Again, watch some videos by Larry Trocha (he has them readily available on youtube, and that is why I refer to him often )
In his vidoes on dealing with spooking, you will see him take the head away on his horses, along with the correct use of body control, to get a horse back to him, versus having them try to buck, bolt, ect
At the same time, watch any of his training vidoes, and those horses stay in correct aleignment, which means never over bending head or neck. You have to know how to use any tool correctly, and also teach the horse the difference


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I have seen that L. Trocha video before. it is good.

I think much of what I am talking about pertains to people who are not training for any discipline. in fact, they are low leverl riders, who are just looking to have better communication skills with their horses.

Charley isn't about you training your horse for quicker stops, though if his students were further along, he might go there.

he's talking about things that I consider much lower, more foundational. it has to do with how you think about your horse, how aware you are of him, and how he thinks about you. and how you can improve that by deep clarity, and that starts with the horse's mind. that is what he talks about . 

for example, having the horse who is flexed side to side, deeply, eventually gets to the place where the horse 'whips' his head over, side to side, because he wants to get through it all faster. he isn't really in there, thinking on what he's doing. he's going through automatic motions. also, as the horse whips its head around, it will rotate the head in such a way that real stretching doesn't happen, and the horse's weight gets thrown onto the opposite shoulder: the weight gets heavier on the forehand, which makes him less able to move his shoulders over, less ready to rock back onto his haunches for the next move. when the horse 'whips' through this so-called 'supplying' he goes past the point of thinking, of 'getting ready' for your direction. 

so, what Charley is saying is that all you really want is for the horse to be able to have enough conscious connection to the rein that he flexes and becomes ready, at which point you may decide to pull him all the way around, and if you do, he is THERE , on the rein, mentally. but the horse doesn't make that decision. yo9u may decide to ask him to step off in the direction you've flexed him,. or you may ask for a leg yield off the other way. but, your ideal is to get him to give softly , just enough and to be ready and available for further direction.

the mounting exersizes are not to GET him to be by the mounting block. they are akin to an small amount of lunging you might do to kind of test out your horse's mental state , before you do mount up. he was just saying that yo9u can do it from the mounting block, which gets your horse used to being focused on you AND the mounting black as the center of direction. there are many ways to make a horse stand still by a mounting block. some involve such things as having someone stand on the other side, basically 'forcing' the horse to do that. others make not standing there so uncomfortable the horse wants to stand there. many ways to get him to stand for mounting.

and with regard to 'taking the horse's head away'. it sure is a useful tool to have. (just yesterday I had to use that when my friend's horse spooked and wanted to buck under me. I hadn't ridden him in ages and he was very fresh)

but, it works best when the rein becomes connected to the hind end, so you can get that disengagement, to disconnect the 'engine' from the car. and, Charley wants to work on that process slowly, asking the horse to 'think' his way through each part of the stepping over and disengaging. if you watch Buck Branaman, he does it the same way.

in any case, the stuff that Charley is presenting is not meant to be necessarily a 'program' for training for success in any discipline. it's about the small things. about the many ways that we miss the chance to be on good footing with our horses.

for example. his emphasis on YOU leaving the horse, not having the horse leave you was a real eye openner to me, and yet, I now practice this and I think it is a better way. small thing.

and, having the horse's two eyes/ears before you pet the face. its a small thing, but the horse is keeping his escape avenues open, and you want him to commit to you, even if it's only for a minute. there's something important in that.

these are things I never even think on, but they make a difference. you watch folks like Charley use them and you see how much happier the horses are with him.


----------



## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Hi Tiny
I sure never meant to infer that what Charlie is saying is not just good horse sense but just like NH, nothing really new, far as fundamentals good horse trainers just 'know;
I can see where it simplifies things for people that ;t really have not had the time to just develop good horse sense, able to read a horse and use that connection, while understanding the basic innate things that govern a horse, because of the innate creature he evolved to be.
The 'leaving the horse', is a concept we have used to start colts for along time 
When we first get on a horse, we alway just stepped up in one stirrup'perhaps bounced up in it a bit, all the while observing the hroses comfort level, then stepped off, before we passed that comfort level, and walked away.
The horse would follow.
Repeat each side,before finally swinging on, always stepping off,letting the horse absorb, and the hrose would always follow as we walked away. This is one example of the correct use of join up
Far as whipping the head around, that is an example of doing lateral flexing to the extreme, and incorrectly, and I also agree that it is best done riding, while using body control also. If you watch the video by Larry trocha on spooking, that is exactly what he does
I am glad that you enjoyed the clinic, and tookthe time to share!


----------

