# Extremely girthy horse...help..



## My Beau (Jan 2, 2009)

I would have a vet out to have him scoped to check for ulcers. They can have ulcers along their digestive track that can make horses be extremely girthy. Does he act up when you brush him at all along his stomach/sides? How about the underside of his neck - does he ever get cranky when you touch that?

A poster here, MIEventer, has dealt with ulcers in her horse so maybe she'll come along and give you some pointers.

But, in all honesty, if he is normal in every other way and you're using soft girths and tacking slowly then I would check for digestive ulcers. And having the vet scope them is the only way to know for sure.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

I would have a chiropractor out ASAP. I had a mare like that and she had a couple ribs out right by her girth. Once she had a couple of adjustments she was much better. She's still "****y" when girthed up, but she no longer tries to eat you, lol.

Once you have him adjusted a couple of times (also have his saddle fit and back checked), start working on his manners. This is an old behavior and won't go away instantly. Start with just rubbing his girth area "roughly". When he acts right, give him treats and praise. When he acts ugly, use a Dressage whip and "correct him" quickly and sharply. Use this same technique when tacking him up. If he even flicks an ear at you in a "mean" way, "correct him" quickly and sharply. When he stands patiently, give him treats and praise. You must BE THE BOSS and show him that this behavior is not acceptable, but also show him that the right behavior will be rewarded.


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

Check saddle fit and other signs of pain, first thing. If it's determined that you just have a ****y horse, take him out, do a hole or two, then go back and undo them. Work up to having it fully tightened, then go undo it. This way he won't always associate you going to his girth area with tightening, but also with loosening.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## coffeemama (Jul 10, 2009)

luvs2ride1979 said:


> I would have a chiropractor out ASAP. I had a mare like that and she had a couple ribs out right by her girth. Once she had a couple of adjustments she was much better. She's still "****y" when girthed up, but she no longer tries to eat you, lol.
> 
> Once you have him adjusted a couple of times (also have his saddle fit and back checked), start working on his manners. This is an old behavior and won't go away instantly. Start with just rubbing his girth area "roughly". When he acts right, give him treats and praise. When he acts ugly, use a Dressage whip and "correct him" quickly and sharply. Use this same technique when tacking him up. If he even flicks an ear at you in a "mean" way, "correct him" quickly and sharply. When he stands patiently, give him treats and praise. You must BE THE BOSS and show him that this behavior is not acceptable, but also show him that the right behavior will be rewarded.


Yes I just bought a custom made to fit his back devoucoux saddle and I know it fits him well because the last saddle when I mounted him he would walk off and with his new saddle he doesn't bat an eye stands quietly. I can rub and brush the girth area before girthing but just after I remove tack I go to brush it and he side steps away from me and raises his hind leg. I don't give him treats anymore because it makes him very pushy and excited and once I stopped with the treats/apple, etc he doesn't push me around.Some days are better than others. Yesterday was really bad but then last week one morning I had to groom and wrap him in his stall due to time restraints when they fed horses late that let him eat a few mins before taking him out and when I finally did, I put him in crossties and he picked up feet quickly and didn't pay attention to me when I was tacking him up and cinching him it was amazing. that was just only one day and the rest of the time he's a grouchy pain. What was so different about that one morning...I'm trying to figure it out.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

Check for a muscle spasm in his girth area. They are usually pretty straight forward but as other posters have suggested, the behavior is usually the tough part to break. It should feel like one, maybe two peas in a pod right in the heart of the girth. If you find something, call in a massage therapist. These particular spasms can be difficult to break up because they are in such a sensitive area. They are usually reasonably priced and will fix that problem and your horse will totally thank you for it! 

Beyond that...I would suggest tucking a dressage whip between you and his face when you tack. He will swing his head to bit you and run into the whip. That way, the whip is the bad guy, not you.


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## coffeemama (Jul 10, 2009)

corinowalk said:


> Check for a muscle spasm in his girth area. They are usually pretty straight forward but as other posters have suggested, the behavior is usually the tough part to break. It should feel like one, maybe two peas in a pod right in the heart of the girth. If you find something, call in a massage therapist. These particular spasms can be difficult to break up because they are in such a sensitive area. They are usually reasonably priced and will fix that problem and your horse will totally thank you for it!
> 
> Beyond that...I would suggest tucking a dressage whip between you and his face when you tack. He will swing his head to bit you and run into the whip. That way, the whip is the bad guy, not you.


do the peas in a pod feel hard or soft to the touch? I thought I saw a few pea sized areas but when I ran my hand across I didn't feel anything. 
I will hold a whip between us that's a good suggestion thanks.


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## inaclick (Jun 6, 2010)

I rode an arabian mare that had some dramatic reactions to the girthing (flipping backwards :shock due to some moron grooms.
Some years ago some potheads figured it would be fun to squeeze the life out of her by suddenly girthing her all the way to the last hole. I don't even know how is that physically possible. Anyways she probably felt a huge amount of pain and since then girthing from the ground was quite a battle

If your horse is healthy (no ulcers etc) perhaps he had some similar trauma. My riding instructor used to ride her to walk carefully and girth her while riding her hole by hole while keeping the horse busy with turns and circles, to get her mind off the girth:/


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

I still say you need a chiropractor out. It sounds like he may have a rib or two out of place, or he could have some muscle issues. I like using a chiro who is also a vet. Mind does accupuncture as well.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

They can be both. Usually, they would feel like a slightly cooked pea. A bit firm on the outside but can be squished. She should give you a look or maybe even a bite if you press on them. They can be very problematic and can actually make her limit her stride capacity. Its like having a knot in your shoulder. While not in use, it doesnt really bother you. When you are asked to hold your hands up over your head, you would refused. It pinches.

Here is a pretty decent website with tons of massage therapist. Some of them are a bit hippy-dippy...wanting the moon and stars to align before working with a horse. Most of them are professional persons wanting to help with pain related issues. I saw that one of them was even a saddle fitter. Two birds-One stone!
http://www.socalequine.com/health_care/altern_therapies.htm


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## coffeemama (Jul 10, 2009)

corinowalk said:


> They can be both. Usually, they would feel like a slightly cooked pea. A bit firm on the outside but can be squished. She should give you a look or maybe even a bite if you press on them. They can be very problematic and can actually make her limit her stride capacity. Its like having a knot in your shoulder. While not in use, it doesnt really bother you. When you are asked to hold your hands up over your head, you would refused. It pinches.
> 
> Here is a pretty decent website with tons of massage therapist. Some of them are a bit hippy-dippy...wanting the moon and stars to align before working with a horse. Most of them are professional persons wanting to help with pain related issues. I saw that one of them was even a saddle fitter. Two birds-One stone!
> Southern California Equestrian Directory


 Are the spasm "peas" always there or just after working? I thought I saw a few like I previously described but were soft to touch they disappeared to touch but just called my trainer (4 days later) she just looked at him since he's being shod and she said there's nothing there now she doesnt know what I'm talking about. 
I told my trainer about what we can do to make this better...she had me grab my carrot stick and I put saddle on first hole both sides (with him kicking out and trying to bite) then she longed him ( he doesn't like to be longed he can't figure out the reasoning behind it) and she seriously moved his feet both ways then petted him and cinched him with no problems. 
So, perhaps it's both a pain thing and a respect thing combined. I know his girth was sore because after untacking when I rubbed my hand around his girth area he pinned his ears and lifted back leg up and swatted his tail but I guess if I can get a chiro to look at him and also can survive the first hole then I will do ground work with him to get the other holes tightened. I've done this before it' s just that my saddle slides back then when I reposition it if not in crossties then it may not be in right spot and also then I have to restart the entire process of girthing from hole#1.
I wish I could wave a majic wand and make this problem go away (doesn't everyone!)  
I hope I can get a chiro out there soon. He's never had a chiro and I'm just afraid the experience might make him worse or create a new problem or behaviour problem he doesnt have now...he's 24 years old...does this make sense? When the saddler fitted him for new saddle he was NOT happy with being manipulated..having his front leg pulled up over and over, etc. It was a bit scary actually. So what exactly does a Chiro do to the horse to put ribs back in place, etc? It's a big animal...how do they do it?


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## Just Ruthiey (Jul 12, 2010)

Have a vet out, & my mare does that- I finally just started smacking her on the shoulder. She stopped doing it. 

Now, it doesn't or shouldn't EVER hurt the horse- only make noise.


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## kpptt2001 (Sep 28, 2010)

Hi - I know this is an older post, but I was just wondering how you made out with your girthy horse? Did you ever end up using the chiro and did it help? 

I ask because I have a girthy horse myself, except instead of biting, pinning ears and kicking, he has decided to literally LIE DOWN while on the crossties!!! :shock: Nearly gives me a heart attack when he does this!

Let me start from the beginning. I first got him in April 2010. In June I bought him a new girth, and about two weeks later I watched him go down on his knees while on the crossties after tacking him up – shouted at him to “stand up” and he did…about 10 seconds later, he tried it again, getting a little closer to the ground. At this point I un-tacked him, and walked him back to his stall to watch for signs of colic or anything unusual – nothing, just looked at me like “Mom, aren’t we going to ride??” Re-tacked him up and immediately took him outside and he was fine. Let me mention before we get too far, that I never ever do up the girth tightly - I don’t believe in it. He was fine until about three weeks later (back to using the old girth) I had him on the crossties, tacked up and ready to go, when someone asked me a question. I turned to the girl to answer her (still standing in front of my horse) and all of a sudden his knees completely buckled under him – he went down and he went down hard, ended up shimmying himself sideways in the aisle, so badly I thought we was going to cast himself or hurt his back or neck. I yelled at the girls to help me get him up and it took about 6 of us to do the job. Again, un-tacked him, this time took him into the indoor arena. My coach checked his girth area where she found no abnormalities, let him settle down, and re-girthed him. He was fine. After this incident, he was deathly afraid of the aisle and being on crossties period – he scared himself silly! So, I quit tacking him up in the aisle and strictly groomed him and put on his bridle in his stall, I would then walk him outside and put on my saddle and girth on out there (I thought it would be safer than becoming a pancake had he decided to go down in his stall – he is 17.3hh after all). I would do up the first hole, walk him, do up another hole, walk him and so on until the girth was tight enough. Anyway, he was fine with this, never once tried to lie down while we were outside girthing - _and so on went my entire summer. _

Well, summer is past and the indoor arena is now open for use. We have been gradually working on having him stand comfortably in the aisle for grooming, for the farrier, vet etc. and he has done well, a little jittery about it sometimes, but tolerable. My coach has tacked him up a couple times in the aisle (but never on crossties) in the past month or so and he was fine with her – I on the other hand have been too nervous to try it. Last night I mustered up enough courage, with the help of my mother - I held him while mom loosely did up the first buckle on the first hole. Before she could get to the second buckle, and before I knew it he was plowing me over and practically running through the aisle. We were headed towards the arena, where he practically dragged me to, knocking over and stepping on everything in his path - which of course intensified his fear. :roll:

Medically, we believe he has ulcers. Back in May he had a stressful shipping experience and ended up having a vet out to see him. We didn’t have a scope done, but the vet treated him with ulcer guard and he is now on a maintenance program. This has been for a while now, and I haven’t really seen any difference in his girthing efforts. At this point however, I am willing to get a scope done to see if the ulcers are still present – in the meantime…

I have made an appointment for an equine chiropractor to see him next week. I am very interested to see what she can find – assuming we can get him to stand in the aisle long enough!  Again, I am not ruling out his ulcer, but I also don’t want to rule any other culprits. 

I have checked for a “pea sized knot” and can’t find anything there. Something is defiantly uncomfortable in his girth area though – when I brush him, he flinches or grinds his teeth, sometimes even brushing the back of his front legs will get the same reaction – especially if I brush them without warning. I hate to think that I am causing him discomfort and would really like to get to the bottom of this. I know his aisle issues have become more of a habit than anything, and he may have plowed over me in the aisle the other day because I typically walk him after cinching the girth, but he didn’t even stand to get both buckles done up! 

I feel like I am fighting a never ending battle! He is a phenomenal horse – Amazing 9 y/o Dutch WB hunter, not a spook about anything, calm and level headed, bit of a babysitter and has the best sweet (and comedic) personality…but girthing him scares me half to death! His nickname around the barn is “Bubble boy” as we have had several out of the ordinary instances with him (unrelated to girthing – but that’s a whole other thread!) – which, just makes him all the more interesting and loveable!

We had our vet out to check him a few times, but they have never found anything out of the ordinary. Does anyone have any other suggestions as to what I can look into?

Sorry about the length of this post…

Thanks in advance!


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## coffeemama (Jul 10, 2009)

kpptt2001 said:


> Hi - I know this is an older post, but I was just wondering how you made out with your girthy horse? Did you ever end up using the chiro and did it help?
> 
> I ask because I have a girthy horse myself, except instead of biting, pinning ears and kicking, he has decided to literally LIE DOWN while on the crossties!!! :shock: Nearly gives me a heart attack when he does this!
> 
> ...


There is a nerve disorder I read about in horses where if you press in the girth area or on the wither area with any pressure their front legs buckle. This might be what your horse suffers from as it struck me when I first read your post. I will research it online again and re-post with the name of the condition but it is from nerve damage that may have occurred before you got your horse and they listed several injuries to certain parts of body that can cause this but symptom is exactly what your horse does. 
As for my boy, I still haven't done chiro on him...girthing bothers me I am so gentle I just do one hole and walk away and come back later and then move him around and do another hole, etc he always pins ears and swings head around to bite at me..once I am on him I can tighten his girth all I want it's just on the ground but I have to get it up a certain amount before being safe enough to sit in saddle without it slipping so that's the part I hate. He has so many good qualities I can't complain too much but I am miserable tacking him up and so is he. I will repost once I get the name of this condition.


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## kpptt2001 (Sep 28, 2010)

coffeemama said:


> There is a nerve disorder I read about in horses where if you press in the girth area or on the wither area with any pressure their front legs buckle. This might be what your horse suffers from as it struck me when I first read your post. I will research it online again and re-post with the name of the condition but it is from nerve damage that may have occurred before you got your horse and they listed several injuries to certain parts of body that can cause this but symptom is exactly what your horse does.
> As for my boy, I still haven't done chiro on him...girthing bothers me I am so gentle I just do one hole and walk away and come back later and then move him around and do another hole, etc he always pins ears and swings head around to bite at me..once I am on him I can tighten his girth all I want it's just on the ground but I have to get it up a certain amount before being safe enough to sit in saddle without it slipping so that's the part I hate. He has so many good qualities I can't complain too much but I am miserable tacking him up and so is he. I will repost once I get the name of this condition.


Really! Wow, first I have ever heard of it! :shock:

I know exactly how you feel – love my boy to pieces, but the whole girthing process gets me very shaken up. Sure hope him and I can get to the bottom of it, as I hope it works out for you and your boy. I am confident with lots of patience and work we will both figure our boys out, and help them how we can – it’s just so discouraging in the meantime. 

I have a chiropractor scheduled to see him next Monday night, so I will let you know how it goes and if I see a difference.

Anyway, thanks so much for your post – I really appreciate it! 

…Off to do some Google research now!


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## coffeemama (Jul 10, 2009)

kpptt2001 said:


> Really! Wow, first I have ever heard of it! :shock:
> 
> I know exactly how you feel – love my boy to pieces, but the whole girthing process gets me very shaken up. Sure hope him and I can get to the bottom of it, as I hope it works out for you and your boy. I am confident with lots of patience and work we will both figure our boys out, and help them how we can – it’s just so discouraging in the meantime.
> 
> ...


One link I found describes your horse:
www.animalchiropractic.co.nz/pdf/*girth*y_horse.pdf


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## Gluey33 (Jun 2, 2008)

Have you tried a little lungeing before saddling, just enough to warm him up?
I to would try massage or chiro


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## kpptt2001 (Sep 28, 2010)

Thanks for the link! I have been doing some research after your last post, and most my findings are all along the same lines as this article. There are some other symptoms on there that I hadn’t even thought of as being symptoms! Looks as though the best form of treatment is the chiropractor, so I guess I am on the right path (booked for Monday). After a few adjustments, I will let you all know if I see any changes.

I have not tried lunging him specifically for “girthing warm-up”, this may help, but I defiantly want to try to get to the root of the problem, and no offence, but lunging prior to every ride and tack-up is going to get slightly tiring, on myself and him! Ha-ha I will defiantly give it a try though. I wouldn’t have posted here if I wasn’t willing to take suggestions, so thank you!

Thanks again!
Cheers


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## coffeemama (Jul 10, 2009)

kpptt2001 said:


> Thanks for the link! I have been doing some research after your last post, and most my findings are all along the same lines as this article. There are some other symptoms on there that I hadn’t even thought of as being symptoms! Looks as though the best form of treatment is the chiropractor, so I guess I am on the right path (booked for Monday). After a few adjustments, I will let you all know if I see any changes.
> 
> I have not tried lunging him specifically for “girthing warm-up”, this may help, but I defiantly want to try to get to the root of the problem, and no offence, but lunging prior to every ride and tack-up is going to get slightly tiring, on myself and him! Ha-ha I will defiantly give it a try though. I wouldn’t have posted here if I wasn’t willing to take suggestions, so thank you!
> Cheers


 I'm glad you read the link. the other members post was a good suggestion but you don't have to longe them completely..rather, you can just put them on a 12' line and halter and use a carrot stick or send them walking in each direction don't have to trot them just move them around to take their mind off the cross-ties and girthing up situation and then while the are out there after moving him around for a minute..tighten up one more hole than immediately move him in opposite direction, tighten one more then walk him around then back to crossties to put bridle on then mount up. However, if my suspicions are correct and he does have a nerve disorder/damage then he will drop at the first hole and it's over so definitely the chiro will help (I hope) or atleast confirm his disorder and have another plan of action. Good luck!
Thanks again!


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## horsemassage (Dec 10, 2010)

I am a certified equine sports massage therapist-I even have my listing on the SoCal Equestrian directory that another poster suggested! I would definitely get a therapist out as a chiro adjustment will work even better with a massage and many "girthy" horses really have muscle spasms or ulcers
My horse actually bit me when I first got him he was so horrible at girthing. Now I don't even have to tie him in the cross ties. Of course he gets *lots* of massages! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## amanda1996 (Nov 30, 2010)

I'd have him checked by a vet for ulcers, girl galls, etc, get the advice of a saddler, and for the meantime ride him bareback instead until you are able to seek some advice.


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## coffeemama (Jul 10, 2009)

amanda1996 said:


> I'd have him checked by a vet for ulcers, girl galls, etc, get the advice of a saddler, and for the meantime ride him bareback instead until you are able to seek some advice.


Due to his girthyness from previous owners/past, I had a saddler come out from Devoucoux and make him a custom saddle to fit his back perfectly and it has double padding in the panels to accommodate his back from years of previous (I am assuming) bad saddle fit, etc. This saddle is the best thing that ever happened to him. So, that problem is solved on the back issue end of things. He's a 16.1hh narrow thoroughbred high withered so can't ride him bareback, even with a bareback pad, or he will "Split me like a pair of aces"..:lol:

He is negative for girth galls of any kind. Not sure about ulcers. I really think he is just so damaged from his past that he will never forget. When I am on him I can cinch him all I want and he does nothing. 
So, I just have learned over the last few months to ignore his behaviour and when he tries to kick me while hooking up this girth with his back leg I just stay out of the way. I do last hole on both sides in the crossties then walk away. Put my helmet on, drink my water then go back slowly and put next hole up on one side then put his fly spray on which he likes when I rub his face with cloth then do the other side next hole, then walk him out and do one more hole then walk him around then back to crossties then put bridle on and mount.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I am not sure is this has already been brought up or discussed - but speaking about a Saddler....

My TB is girthy. He has ulcers and they are treated - but whenever I girth him up, he pins his ears back and bites the air. I thought it was a result of the ulcers, and then I thought it was a result of a poorly fitted saddle - so I contacted this Saddle Fitter to come out, and she did - and I learnt a lot from her!

She worked very thoroughly with Nelson and I, and a part of her thoroughness was watching me groom my horse and tack him up. She witnessed the ear pinning and air biting, and proceeded to do a "Feel over" on Nelson, where his girth lays.

She hit a spot, on his right side, where the girth rests over when done up, and he did the same thing - the ear pinning and biting the air, and she explained to me that my girth is actually the culprit.....because I'm using a girth with elastic ends on 1 side. She said that those types of girths can actually cause a lot of "girthy" issues because of *I cannot remeber how she explained it exactly* the non elastic on the one side puts a lot of pressure and doesn't move with the horse.......she explained that right at that particular spot, are nerves which are sensative...and hmm mm hmmmm mmmmm........I can't remember exactly how she explained it to me.

She told me to purchase a girth with elastics on both ends, and for my particular horse, a girth with fleece on it.

Please excuse me, but is that what "girth galls" are?


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

girth galls are like rubs or lumps on the side of a horse it can be caused from dirth girths, to tight ar loose girths etc it rubs them raw basically.
some horses are alot more prone to them then othere especially those woth soft skin who have been out of work for a while.
They can be like open cuts etc if your horse gets them leave them off untill they are fully healed then we use methyated spirits(sp) to harden the skin a bit to prevent them( i am quite sure the mets does something else but we just say harden the skin!)


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## coffeemama (Jul 10, 2009)

MIEventer said:


> I am not sure is this has already been brought up or discussed - but speaking about a Saddler....
> 
> My TB is girthy. He has ulcers and they are treated - but whenever I girth him up, he pins his ears back and bites the air. I thought it was a result of the ulcers, and then I thought it was a result of a poorly fitted saddle - so I contacted this Saddle Fitter to come out, and she did - and I learnt a lot from her!
> 
> ...


Yes I have always used a fleece girth double sided elastic from beginning for this very reason. 
This does bring something to my attention...my saddle pad, even though shorter than the usual standard close contact pads, does scrunch up on his sides due to cinching once I am on him and I can't straighten it out once I am up on him. I know this isn't causing a real issue like the other issues but anyone have same issue and is it a real problem?


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