# What can I improve??



## Phantomcolt18 (Sep 25, 2007)




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## Gillian (Aug 2, 2008)

One thing that really jumps out to me is that you ask him to go and kick him on but than yank back on his face at the same time. Especially when you're pumping your arms at the beginning. It's sending very confusing messages to your horse. No offense but the whole video makes me wince because all I can see if you yanking on his face. You can tell he's unhappy about it because of how he keeps throwing his head up, he's trying to tell you that he's uncomfortable.


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## SpiritJordanRivers (May 31, 2009)

You're yanking on his mouth and kicking him at the same time. You also smacked him a lot. Your horse is good and it doesn't look like there is any need to hit him if he responds to you kicking him. This is just a theory, I don't know if this will work, but sometimes western riders, like barrel racers, pole benders and such, when they come around a turn (to the left for a better example) will pull the right rein over the horse's neck and pull with the left rein also. I don't think bits that have shanks are ment to be pulled with that left rein (back to example). So does anyone have an idea is a snaffle bit would work better than a bit w/ a shank? I don't know and the question is kind of hard to explain.


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

I also agreed with the yanking on his mouth and kicking him.

Find a good place on your reigns that are loose, and instead of yanking in his mouth, find a place on his mane to grab. Heels down, and you really dont need to smack him because kicking hard enough hurts, you dont need both.


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## Phantomcolt18 (Sep 25, 2007)

okay wow was not expecting that. Well to clear the water a bit. I need to keep contact on the bit with him by sending little signals(hense the arm pumping) because if i pull back to keep contact he will obviously slow down so im giving him his head but also letting him know i am still there or he will loose focus. Also when i have to pull back hard before a turn and he throws his head up he kinda has no brakes when we run towards the gate so if i don't pull back hard he runs through the bit. The bit i have in his mouth is not a severe bit. I am going to be trying a snaffle over the summer when we work on jumping so i can see how he does with it gaming. Also my whip is not a whip it is a piece of very soft cotton that my friend hand braided for me it's just a little boost i would NEVER hurt my horse and i whipped myself with that thing coutless times becasue if it hurt me i was not going to use it on my horse.Also i only used it twice and the second time didn't connect. And i dont kick hard it looks like i am in the vid because i need to raise my stirrups so my legs hang to low and i wasn't making contact. Also if it hurt him he would associate the bit and riding as a bad thing but as soon as i show him his bridle he gets excited and starts to dance ears up and follows me around then he drops his head and takes his bit like a treat(i never trained him to take it that well he does it on his own)Also if you notice sometimes (at least where i ride and they are trained gaming horses) when someone pulls back to turn the horse they shake and throw their head a bit.


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## Gillian (Aug 2, 2008)

Contact does not mean pulling on him. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but with every stride it seemed that you were pulling back on him. I only game for fun and have never really done more than a few summers of it when I used to go up to a friend's ranch in Georgia, and I am certainly not that wonderful at it. I know I'm doing a different pattern than you but the concept is the same. I have contact with my horse's mouth but at the same time I am not pulling back on him. I don't know if this will help at all but here's a video of me doing a pattern. There's a lot that I need to work on but the point is that you can have contact and still not be yanking at him.

http://www.myyearbook.com/?mysession=dmlkZW9fd2F0Y2gmdmlkZW9pZD0zMDAxOQ==


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Your horse is very cute!
First off, I would suggest some flat lessons for yourself. I see a lot of imbalance on your horse, and that is translating to confusion for your horse.
The first few seconds of the video showed a lot. Your seat is not moving with your horse, your back is stiff and that's making you bounce around in the saddle. This isn't very comfortable for your horse - try relaxing your back and really moving your pelvis with your saddle, and think about sinking into those heels. 

Your legs are not solid, which works its way all up your body. See how they swing around a lot? Not just when you're kicking, but when you're trying to balance as well. A solid leg will really help all facets of your riding. I suggest lots of no-stirrup work and see if you can get an instructor to give you a few lunge lessons. 

Now, about your hands - they are very rough and unforgiving. You are catching your horse in the mouth and that is not a good thing. I really do suggest you buddy up with an instructor who can really go back over the basics with you. Do you see him flipping his head all over the place? That's when you're catching him in the mouth and he's trying to tell you he doesn't like it. 
I think a lot of your hands has to do with your unsteady seat and leg. 
Contact is when you keep a feel of the horse's mouth but you do not interfere with the horse's mouth, you are not accomplishing that at the moment. 

When you can work WITH your horse, that's when your runs will start to improve.


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## 1dog3cats17rodents (Dec 7, 2007)

I'm sorry, but that looked painful. You have a VERY patient horse. You are slamming on his back, kicking him, and yanking on his mouth. You need to sit straight, keep your hand quiet and keep you legs still.


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## RiddlesDarkAngel5 (Jun 2, 2009)

im going to have to agree with the previous posters. i understand needing to keep contact or he gets unfocused. i need that with my arab. if i let the reins go completely slack he stops listening. but, like someone above said, there's a difference between contact and yanking. and you are yanking and it doesn't look like you're doing it intentionally or anything. to me, it looks like you're off balance when he's moving so quickly and so to steady yourself you use your hands. but thats not fair to him. try doing some no stirrup or bareback work to strengthen your core and legs so u can keep youself balanced without having to pull on his face. i think this will also help with his turns. you said he has issues balancing. well it looks like thats bc he doesn't have a chance to lower his head. many horses need to lower their head to reorient themselves around turns so try actually giving a little around turns but maintaining leg pressure so he knows that he needs to move into the turn, not just slow down. i hope that helps


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## SilentBravery09 (May 22, 2009)

JustDressageIt said it all.
Your horse is very forgiving.
Mine would have dead stopped, reared and probably fall over on me if I ever pulled that much on her mouth.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

JustDressageIt said:


> Your horse is very cute!
> First off, I would suggest some flat lessons for yourself. I see a lot of imbalance on your horse, and that is translating to confusion for your horse.
> The first few seconds of the video showed a lot. Your seat is not moving with your horse, your back is stiff and that's making you bounce around in the saddle. This isn't very comfortable for your horse - try relaxing your back and really moving your pelvis with your saddle, and think about sinking into those heels.
> 
> ...


This is pretty good advice.


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## ilovelucy91 (Mar 11, 2009)

JustDressageIt basically said it all especially the part about how cute your horse is!
and SpiritJordanRivers did have a point about the bit. I couldn't see what type of bit you were using but if I remember correctly shank bits are meant to be used with one hand, like I said I couldn't tell what type of bit you have and I know there are several people who in this forum who know all about bits, so you can ask them about it because I am not sure


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I fail to understand completely why you ask people what you can improve, only to throw it back in everyone's face because you're apparently doing everything right already. As a person who loves Western and loves gaming, I find this attitude really negative on the entire discipline because it's so rampant, along with a horrendous amount of bad riding.

The "whipping" and kicking I get, I don't agree with it, but I get it. However, there is no excuse for you to constantly be yanking on your horses face. That's not contact, your horse is star gazing to the max numerous times from you slamming into his back and jabbing him in the mouth. Maybe you think you have a contact, but when you're bouncing all over the saddle, your hands are going with you, causing a jab, jab, jab motion instead of a steady pressure with a bit of half halting to remind him.

To be frank, I honestly think the vast majority of people who get into gaming do so because "no training is required" and yanking your horse around is just common practice. It doesn't make it right. Either you're not trained for this, or your horse isn't, as he's being yanked around each pole with his nose to the inside, as he runs sideways trying to understand what you want him to do.

I'm sure JustDressageIt is a lot more eloquent then I am, I'm just tired of barrel racers and gamers being looked down upon because so many think that the key to winning is kicking your horse as many times as you can. You would make ENORMOUSLY better time if your horse was taking his turns tight, you were sitting quietly and allowing him to roll into a good quick rollback instead of bouncing on his front legs because his nose is being pulled up and his back is being hollowed out. Plus it would be 100% easier for you to ride and not lose a stirrup.

Here is a video of my best friend barrel racing - the most amazing part being that this was only the second time in both of their lives they'd ever run a true barrel pattern. The first time was at a warmup the day before. This horse is so responsive to leg and neck reining, she had no problem tucking right into the barrels and getting off fast again. Notice that Shay-la does not kick her or whip her even a single time - she knows her horse is fast, she knows her horse will run, and all it takes is a squeeze and sitting quiet and you instantly become a LOT more aerodynamic and able to let your horse do his/her job better. She also never throws her head up trying to evade the soft contact given right before a turn to focus her. She's being ridden in a short shanked hack in this video.





 
Obviously I'm not saying you should never kick or whip your horse, I'm fully aware that some horses DO need the encourgement. But I just don't understand why people don't realize that a kicking, bouncing rider is going to slow you down, not speed you up. A horse can run a LOT faster with a quiet, able rider then someone who's moving around like crazy and throwing his center of balance off every two strides.

That's just my opinion anyway, mostly because if I ever had the auducity to kick or whip my mare for "more speed", she'd probably pile me into the closest fence she could find :lol: She knows how to run, and I better stay out of her way and let her get the job done!


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

It really, really, really bugs me when riders ride so much with their hands...if you really want to improve on your ride, and keep your horse calm and submissive to your hands, learn how to keep your hands QUIET unless you are giving him a CUE!!! Same with your legs...unless he is slowing, keep them quiet; all you do is sensitize the horse to your 'aids' by constantly applying so much pressure. 

You also tend to fall behind his motion alot, which is probably why you lost your stirrup; this will be fixed alot if you learn how to not ride so much with your hands. 

To improve on those things, you need to have someone longe you in all three gaits; no stirrups, no reins...and don't hang on, unless you have to, to the horn. Learn how to properly develop an independent seat; your horse will thank you for this, especially when you stop bumping and pumping his mouth so much!

Also, if you teach your horse to properly bend and flex to gentle pressure (both bit, and leg) his turns will improve, as well. He evades the bit, alot, but I think that is because of how he is ridden currently. Go back to a simple snaffle bit, and teach him how to properly bend, flex, and collect with it; even gaming events can improve with improvements in those areas.


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## melshorsesami (May 27, 2009)

I would really get a trainer to help you out with the basics as someone else had posted earlier. Its really much easier to learn when someone helps you out in person, then maybe you'll be able to stop yanking on your horses mouth. You'll thank yourself for getting a trainer and you'll end up being a much better rider.


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## Phantomcolt18 (Sep 25, 2007)

thanks for some others im a little hurt BUT i see where you are coming from (thats why i videotape myself so i can see what improve.) Thank you to all who said Phantom is a cutie  and yes he is very forgiving(as i have noticed~~wince~~) i guess i thought because i had been riding so long i was fine but there are always areas to improve lol. And i will be doing some balance exercises now like trotting and cantering without stirrups and have someone lunge him while i ride reinless (hope it goes well). As for the bit i think you are right about the shanks and since phantom doesn't neckrein and i need to pull with both reins im going to try a snaffle(im ordering one with my jumping saddle for jumping) so we will be able to work with that to see how that works. Also some background on phantom(im totally not blaming him im just saying he's limited) he has never gamed in his life before i got him the people who had him before us abused him and used him as a broken down lesson horse and the people that had him before them trained him in english(alot of the times he move like and english horse) we think he did at LEAST beginner level dressage and maybe beginner jumping(this is also why im hoping the snaffle will help). I am totally going to work on everything and i will try to get videos up of us to see if i am improving at all. And i think the reason i pull back so hard to turn him is because he doesn't know how to bend around the barrels/poles and in turn i need him to almost pivot around them instead. Also i think i need longer reins because ( i just tried it ) even if i give him his head when running and i have my arms all the way up to his neck(with no pumping) he still throws his head a bit. Also i am moving my stirrups up this weekend at the next show to see how that helps my balance and posture because my legs aren't bent at the angle thay are suposed to be (which might be throwing me off). Any other suggestions for training?? Should i add anything else to what i said above? (keep in mind i cannot afford a trainer right now so it will be me and my friend(who has had horses for about 45 years.) thanks for all of the advice everything will be DEFINATELY taken into mind and tried. I guess really the only wayto improve is to experiment and get advice sorry if i sounded hostile in the first response (im a stubborn person haha) but i thought about it and i ASKED for help and now im recieving help and i NEED to learn from it. So thanks so much im going to try to change everything so much. Oh by the way anyone know how to train a horse to bend around something so i dont have to yank his head around???


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## Phantomcolt18 (Sep 25, 2007)

oh btw since phantom was abused i have basically more or less gotten him to where he is now he used to only walk trot


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

You've come a long way with him then! Give yourself a huge pat on the back.

Lessons with this friend would be a great start. Just having a pair of eyes on the ground to correct you the instant you start to falter is going to improve your riding very quickly. 
If this horse was only ridden in a snaffle bit up until you got him, the shank bit might be very confusing to him - and with harsh hands, a shank bit is very painful to him.
Have you had his teeth floated recently? If his teeth are hurting him, no amount of "give" in your hands is going to help, and might explain why he was still throwing his head with a loose rein - the bit might be bugging his teeth. 
In any case, since your hands aren't the best or softest (sorry) I would strongly strongly STRONGLY suggest switching to a snaffle. If you are constantly bumping his face with a shank bit, he's probably getting annoyed and hurt.

I can just about guarantee you that if you really work on your position and keeping off his face, your times while gaming will improve.
I would also suggest you work on your position before attempting to jump, otherwise you might do the same thing, but it's compounded over fences. 

Good luck!


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## Phantomcolt18 (Sep 25, 2007)

He had his teeth floated about 2 months ago so he's good there. i have already started jumping him (since i have only jumped a few times before ) my friend helps out with my position. weirdly when i am jumping my position and balance are alot better and i feel as though phantom is calmer and more balanced i guess(which makes me think he has done it before. But i have been jumping with a western saddle hense why i am ordering a jumping saddle, bridle and new bit. we don't know what kind of bit he used before i got him (like i said they abused him and didn't tell us anything besides "oh that animal is useless and if you hadn't come to pick him up we would have sent him to slaughter!!!!!" he's such a sweetheart comes when you call him and he would do almost anything i ask of him. He was beat with everything on this planet and it took me a year and a half to show him that everything is okay and that we would not hurt him with anything so we did that and also walk, trot, lope exercises.) So since he is a bit "englishy" we thought to try a snaffle instead of his tom thumb hense why we ordered it.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

I'm sorry, Tom Thumb bits are really popular but they're an awful bit to use.
This is a long read but very worth it for your own education:
Today's Horse - The Trouble with Tom Thumb

I would really suggest that you work on the flat for a while right now and stay away from jumping or gaming - I'm sorry but your seat, hand and legs need a lot of work, and I fear that you're catching him in the mouth over fences as well. If you cannot see your lack of balance in this video, I am really worried you wouldn't be able to tell while jumping either, and jumping requires a lot more coordination than gaming.


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## Phantomcolt18 (Sep 25, 2007)

i have noticed that my balance is off (i mentioned that earlier) and i think it may be because of my stirrups. i am going to move them so that my legs are at the angle they are supposed to be. my friend said that would help with my balnce and my posture alot and i will be able to keep my heels down easier and i wont be bouncinig around in the saddle. because basically my legs are just hanging (i have realized) and it's hard to use them properly when they are not in the right spot. I will post a video of my riding after i have raised my stirrups. and when i get the bit i will post a video after that. As for the gaming i have a membership but i will use the shows as an opprotunity to work on my problems outside the arena with a bunch of people who can give me some hands on advice


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## Phantomcolt18 (Sep 25, 2007)

JustDressageIt said:


> I'm sorry, Tom Thumb bits are really popular but they're an awful bit to use.
> This is a long read but very worth it for your own education:
> Today's Horse - The Trouble with Tom Thumb


thanks so much for the article wow that totally makes sense about how everything is going with me i am definately going to switch to a snaffle. and not just for jumping but permanently.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Phantomcolt18 said:


> thanks so much for the article wow that totally makes sense about how everything is going with me i am definately going to switch to a snaffle. and not just for jumping but permanently.


I am very glad! You are obviously wanting to learn and do the best by your horse, that is really awesome!


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## Phantomcolt18 (Sep 25, 2007)

Im always open to advice i figure im 17 and soon ill be on my own so i better learn as much as i can now while i have the chance.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Phantomcolt18 said:


> oh btw since phantom was abused i have basically more or less gotten him to where he is now he used to only walk trot


For that, you definitely need to pat yourself on the back; trust me, been there done that. The horse I lost last month was a pretty messed up boy when I got him, and he wasn't even trained to ride, so I know the in's and outs of teaching them how to trust again! 

As far as teaching him how to bend and flex nicely, you can do alot of that on the ground, as well as from the saddle. 

If working on the ground, stand near his flank, grab the lead, and pull the slack out of the lead and toward his wither; hold the pressure on his wither until he gives to it, then release. repeat several times, and move to the other side. The more you flex him on the ground, the quicker he will pick this up undersaddle. You can do this exercise, either with his halter, or his bridle on. This is only the beginning part of bending. 

You will want to teach him individually how to yield his hip, and his front end to pressure, and then combining his ability to flex properly, you will be able to bend him around corners and objects neatly.
http://www.naturalhorsesupply.com/yielding.shtml


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