# What color is my horse?



## stingerscricket (Oct 3, 2011)

People have told me my horse was so many different colors, so I am very confused! Is she a buckskin, dunskin, dun, amber champagne or something I didn't even list? What do you guys think? As you can tell from the pics, her body is buttermilk buckskin colored, with dark brown points on legs and dark brown mane and tail. She has the main qualities of champagne (buckskin colored with dark brown points) but no pink skin or freckles. She has a faint dun stripe, ear edging, zebra striping on legs in summertime, cobwebbing on face, as well as frosting on mane and tail. I also read that she could be a champagne with the dun diltuion too. Oh and her AQHA registration papers say shes buckskin, but I know champagne is a fairly new term. Thanks in advance for your insight


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

I am leaning toward dunskin from the photos. However, it would be really useful to know the colour of her parents?


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## stingerscricket (Oct 3, 2011)

Her sire is listed as buckskin, unsure on dam, grandsire bay, granddam palomino, and other grandsire red dun.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Without the information on both parents, and possibly pictures, there is always a smidge of doubt in my mind. However, I am fairly confident that she is a dunskin and not just a buckskin. Another question - does her dorsal come and go, or is it there all year?


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## stingerscricket (Oct 3, 2011)

It stays all year but it is always faint and not as pronounced as most duns.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Given that she also has a cream gene, that is to be expected. Dun and cream are both dilution genes - they make the horse lighter. So one dun gene and one cream gene are going to mess with her markings to a certain extent. I am confident that she is dunskin


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## stingerscricket (Oct 3, 2011)

That makes sense! Thank you so much


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

Buckskin, I do not see anything that makes me think dun.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

haviris said:


> Buckskin, I do not see anything that makes me think dun.


Not even the dorsal stripe and the leg barring? :wink:

I vote Dunskin.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I am torn between buckskin with a countershading dorsal stripe and dunskin. Do you have any better pictures of her, preferably slicked off in summer coat where we can really see her markings and color well? The one picture of her from behind is pretty fuzzy so it's hard to see much definitive there.

Other than that, I don't see anything about her that says champagne.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

I'm110% with Chiilaa on the color of this one. Dunskin all the way.


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## yadlim (Feb 2, 2012)

What color are her eyes? If they are normal horse color, you can rule out Amber champagne. 

Here are some close ups of a weanling Amber Champagne with her mom in the backggound.

Here she is showing off her brown points.










And her off eye color...










Showing off her brown mane.


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## stingerscricket (Oct 3, 2011)

Her eyes are normal colored. The only trait that matches the champagne is her brown points, other than that shes nothing like them. The different lighting in the pictures really affects how black or brown her points and mane and tail look, but in person they are definitely dark brown. Unfortunately the only picture I have of her without a winter coat is the one I posted of her saddled from her previous owner...Here are a couple more showing her faint dorsal stripe but it is with a winter coat again..


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## yadlim (Feb 2, 2012)

Yup - I would go with the others thoughts. She is definatly not an Amber Champagne. The Champagnes have really really brown points and really really lite colored eyes. 

Oh, and when I bought the mare, the seller had no clue what color she was. I was told she was a "honey" colored mare. Hey - I will give a gold star to anyone who can guess the breeding of the filly... hehehe

Guesses? No? Her dam was 1/2 morgan, 1/4 TB, 1/4 Arab. The sire was a grade Percheron who was thought to be too young to breed the mare... Not a cross I would EVER suggest!!!


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## chandra1313 (Jul 12, 2011)

Wow she looks exactly like my sisters mare, which is a dun. One of my boarders has a buckskin and you can really tell the difference when you have both available to look at. I say she is a dun


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Not all buckskins have jet black points. Some, more common in the buttermilk colored ones like your mare, have definite dark brown points. I'm still not 100% convinced that she is carrying a dun gene, though it is darn sure possible.

She does look a lot like Daddy's Smokin' Caddy though.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

With the sire's parents being bay + palomino, the sire is definitely correctly labeled as a buckskin.

Without knowing the dam's side of the genetics, it's hard to so definitively if there is a dun gene present as well. The dorsal line is pretty faint, but the mane and tail have some 'two toned-ness" going on, which suggests dun to me, along with the striping on the legs.

I'd be pretty confident that she's dunskin, but you'll never really know unless you get her DNA color tested


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

For me it's the picture of her tail that sells it. A false dorsal usually won't change the tail like that.


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## Ladyreiner (Jul 23, 2009)

I had a filly colored just like her.. with the chocolate points instead on black.. your fill carried the silver gene.. that is what dilutes her points.. if her dorsal stripe is counter shading she is buckskin.. bay+cream+silver.. if her dorsal stripe is in fact a stripe she is a dunskin with silver..bay+dun+cream+silver.

Silver does not modify sorrel or chestnut horses.. they can be carries..
My stallion was a red roan sabino
the dam of my filly was a black tobiano.. or so I though
my filly was born a super light palomino..that was a bit of a shock as i couldn't figure out where the cream gene came from.. at the time i didn't even have a stallion that carried cream

any way after testing it turns out the mare is a smokey black tobiano and the stallion is a sorrel with the silver gene..
the filly s points including her mane and tail turned chocolate..


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I hate the term dunskin almost as much as I hate labradoodle. It looks like a buttermilk buckskin to me. I don't think it shows enough dun to be called a dun.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

No. No silver. Silver is _extremely_ rare in stock horse breeds.


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## xxdanioo (Jan 17, 2012)

int he first post- isn't that the dun leg barring on the front leg in the saddled picture?


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

You can clearly see the leg barring here - 









And the dorsal here - 










Counter shading would not carry into the tail like that. 

Another note on the silver, the horse isn't carrying any indicators of silver (white eyelashes, blond mane/tail, etc.)


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## sinsin4635 (Dec 1, 2009)

I'm with Kevin, Buttermilk Buckskin.


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

No, not even the dorsal or leg barring. The dorsal appears to be counter shading, the reason I would assume it appears to run through the tail is because of the horse's frosting, which is very common in buckskins (duns to), I have seen a flaxen sorrel w/ a similar looking affect. And I have seen sorrels w/ faint leg barring to.

I still say buckskin all the way! But would be interested in hearing the results if she's ever tested.

(I'm not a fan of the term dunskin either)


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## stingerscricket (Oct 3, 2011)

Everyones opinions are split half and half between dunskin and buckskin, so pretty much I will never know for sure unless I get her tested I guess. Thank you all for your replies. I'm going to try and find out what color her dam was and let you all know, but I won't be getting her DNA tested right now.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

She's a dunskin. I'm with Chiilaa and NdAppy. A light colored dorsal stripe can actually be countershading, but countershading does not put that kind of leg barring on a horse nor does it change a tail like that.

ETA: Excuse me. Is "buckskin dun" a better name for the color?


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Why not just chose one? Pick the one you like the best.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Because the horse is obviously carrying both the cream gene and the dun gene; she is not one or the other. 

Kevin, based on this page of pictures, what color would you call SBR Formula One? NewGallery He's a dunskin. He is obviously dun, but also obviously a buckskin.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

If I could have my way I'd say you could call it either a buckskin or a dun and if you could make the case for either one then you got to choose. I don't know if AQHA actually puts dunskin on the papers (it wouldn't suprise me if they do) but in Kevins world you would have to choose. Also anybody advertising purebred Labradoodles would be summarily executed!

It really doesn't matter much unless the owner is going to breed her in which case I would suggest she never mention it on this forum.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Your comparison doesn't make a **** bit of sense. A Labradoodle is a mutt consisting of two different _breeds_ of dogs. You can ask NdAppy when she's on again what my opinion of Labradoodles are. A buckskin dun, however, is a black based horse that has the agouti, cream, and dun _genes_, all of which are capable of being "layered" on top of each other. It is completely asinine to try to separate them. 

And furthermore, by your standards, a "dun" horse is actually the dun gene diluting a bay horse. So what is it then? Still dun or is it bay?


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

You asked my opinion and I gave it. Nothing interests me less than discussing color in horses except maybe reality television and People magazine. I'm kicking myself for getting sucked in here. Color is not the thing about horses that interests me. I'd rather see an ugly sorrel with a good handle than the latest fashionable color on a horse that doesn't handle well. As far as a horse that I own I want one with heart the most. Nothing else really matters if they have a lot of heart.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Ding Ding - Po -1, Labradoodles - 0

Seriously though..It's a Dunskin


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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> You asked my opinion and I gave it. *Nothing interests me less than discussing color in horses except maybe reality television and People magazine*. I'm kicking myself for getting sucked in here. Color is not the thing about horses that interests me. I'd rather see an ugly sorrel with a good handle than the latest fashionable color on a horse that doesn't handle well. As far as a horse that I own I want one with heart the most. Nothing else really matters if they have a lot of heart.


Coulda fooled me!! :wink:

I agree with the others, looks like a Dunskin to me.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

IMO in this case Dunskin is appropriate.


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## stingerscricket (Oct 3, 2011)

And the winner is...DUNSKIN!!! I just contacted AQHA and her dam was a red dun!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

Yes, I prefer buckskin dun.

And SBR Formula One is with out a doubt buckskin dun, he doesn't look anything like the OP's mare, and I'd bet money on a buckskin.

Truely the only way to know for sure is to test her. If you worried about being 'correct', no one can argue she's not buckskin (whether she also has a dun gene won't change that), then you can safely call her buckskin.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

If she is dun though, having a cream gene won't change that either. I have no problem with the term "dunskin" - it tells me everything I need to know - dun gene, cream gene, bay base.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

hmm when i was young these were called buttermilk duns...


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Stevenson, when you were young, we hadn't isolated the genes responsible


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

Oh ha ha.. no they had not. I still prefer the sound buttermilk to dunskin . 

Dunskin just sounds dorky.. LOL


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

I didn't know it was possible to feel that strongly about a coat color. :-|

I would just call it a washed-out or light buckskin. I have no clue what a "dunskin" is. It sounds goofy.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

A "dunskin" is a horse that is a bay base, with a single cream gene and at least one dun gene. Without the dun gene, it would be a buckskin. Without the cream gene, it would be a bay dun.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

so, I guess she should get horse genetic tested to find the true color.. which to me would be a waste of time and money, unlesss she is using it for breeding and wants to advertise the specific gene sequence in order to sell the offspring .


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Actually, in this case, I wouldn't even bother testing. He is a gelding, so no need to worry about what he can pass on, and I am 110% certain he is E_ A_ Crcr D_ - which all adds up to dunskin lol.


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## stingerscricket (Oct 3, 2011)

Actually she's a mare but she wont be used for breeding ever or any time soon, so I'm not going to test her. When people ask me what color she is, I am going to say dunkskin. I don't have a problem with the name and everything that Chiilaa is saying makes the most sense to me. "bay base with a dun and cream gene"


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

IF she has a dun gene. It's true that she'd be a dun, w/ our w/out a cream gene. My point was it's pretty clear she has a cream gene, so she is w/out a doubt a buckskin. The question is does she also have a dun gene, and since that is not clear, calling her a buckskin would be correct. Calling her a buckskin dun (dunskin if you like the word) may or may not be correct, no way to know w/out testing. 

I don't 'think' I would test her either if she were mine, I'd just call her a buckskin. (I say I don't think I would, mostly because she just looks like a buckskin w/ counter shading, but I can't be sure my curriousity wouldn't force me to do it anyway).


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Haviris, go back and look at the mare's tail and the last picture posted on the first page. A normal buckskin's tail would not have a dorsal stripe in the tail because countershading does not do that. In the last picture, you can clearly see leg barring all over her front left leg.


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

The tail is mostly due to frosting, I've even seen it in in flaxen sorrels, also had sorrel mare w/ light leg barring. Typically I don't see fake dorsal's (counter shading) run into the tail like that, but I'd also expect to see a true dorsal. If the op posts better pics of the dorsal I may change my mind, but from what she posted it looks like counter shading. Could also be muddled because of the winter fuzzies, a nice slick summer pic may help to.

This horse is listed as a buckskin, if it's correct, it has very clear leg barring, and color through the tail. The sire is a bay (definately, I found a pic), the dam is supposed to be palomino (but couldn't find a pic).
DreamHorse.com Horse ID: 1712893 - LB NICA SUNSHINE


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

Here's another one (hopefully it opens up the the pic that shows the legs),
Too Slick Two Watch - suziedavis' Photos
His tail is cocked to the side in this one, but here is one that shows his back and top of his tail (and light counter shading), you can see the frosting on either side, making it look like there is dark running through the middle,
Too Slick Two Watch - suziedavis' Photos


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Here is a better picture of that same stallion, showing that the frosting is very limited to his tail head.










As you can see, a big difference compared to the OP's horse:


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

And this should take you to that stallion's page, showing a winter pic where he has no dorsal evident.

Too Slick Two Watch - suziedavis' Photos


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

As far as this one is concerned:

DreamHorse.com Horse ID: 1712893 - LB NICA SUNSHINE

The dam doesn't have a picture, and as a palomino base, dun can "hide" easily on that. The dam's dam is a dun, so it's perfectly feasible that the filly is a dunskin.


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

Yes, that would 'could' be a buckskin dun, which is why I said, IF it's correctly listed. 

The frosting is limited on the stallion (in his mane and tail both), some buckskins have more then others, it's clear from the pic that the frosting gives the illusion of the color running through the tail, if he had more it would be even more obvious (just like the OPs). (not sure about the comment about the dorsal, he's not a dun, he's a buckskin).


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

That's why I mentioned the dorsal. The buckskin stallion does have a dorsal at some times of the year, so the fact it's not there at other times differentiates him from the OP's horse, whose dorsal is only questionable because of its paleness, not its existence.


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

It's really a moot point. W/out a test we can only say what color we 'think' the mare is.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

My next statement would have been "OP - go test the mare so we know!"


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

Actually, it is not clear from that pic if that stallion's counter shading is there year round, or seasonally (and counter shading can be year round). I can get a pic of my grulla from a similar angle and the dorsal not be obvious.


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

Chiilaa said:


> My next statement would have been "OP - go test the mare so we know!"


It would sure make it easier!


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## stingerscricket (Oct 3, 2011)

Ahh I know it would make this so much easier! Too expensive though! Especially since it would just be out of curiousity :/ I will always wonder too. Oh well..if people are still posting when my mare slicks out, I will post a pic of her stripe without a winter coat.


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