# Ever feel like quitting in the middle of a lesson?



## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

Today was horrible. To start with I was on time and the trainer was nowhere to be seen. I was told she would be back in a little while. I went to get my horse. When I came back with him she was there and scolded me for being late. "These lessons start at 2: you know. You should be ready to go. Just groom the saddle and girth areas. I quietly said this is the first I've heard of this (it's been 8 months). I always arrive at the specified time and prepare my horse. She even scolded me for picking his feet out "He doesn't need that" as I dug some stones out from under a branch of his shoe.

Then the lesson.. I did fine walking him and she said it was good. Then she asked for the trot- in my opinion he was going too fast and I tried to slow him down and rate him like she taught the last time. "What are you doing!" and the yelling began. I tried to explain and she went off WHY do you want to fight with me? I am a professional and you are a student! This horse has done nothing wrong! I got tensed up and angry and I knew my young horse could feel that. I wondered- why continue? I almost dismounted, put up the stirrups and led him out.

I didn't and did not say anything. It was not a great smooth lesson, it was a horrible lesson. I tried to do what she said. At times I could not hear plainly what she was saying and "soften" sounded like "sock him". I knew this cannot be right. Finally I did learn something useful about planting the outside foot when asking for the canter and loosen, don't tighten the reins.

I must add that I am 67 years old and she is a woman in her 30s.I am the eldest daughter and a nurse that ran a hospital at night. I do not take well to being disrespected. And there is nothing wrong with my hearing. She has an earphone communication device but it was not there today.

On the drive home I did not re ride the lesson in my mind like I have done in the past. I just thought about how great it would have been to dismount and lead him out. Do you think I should get a different trainer? Or does everybody have bad days.


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## ksbowman (Oct 30, 2018)

A person with your experience in life should not be letting someone you are paying treat you like this. You need to find a place closer with a good trainer and relocate your horse and quit letting someone like this be employed. Letting her treat you and your horse as she does is only enabling her. There are many good trainer/instructors out there go find one. When I was still working before retirement I had at times over 125 men/women working for me and I never treated anyone unfair or not like I wanted to be treat and you shouldn't let someone treat you that way. Find someone closer and better and let her know why you are leaving otherwise one as "thick" as her won't understand.


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## MeditativeRider (Feb 5, 2019)

I don't know. Has she been like this consistently in multiple lessons, or was it just this lesson. I like to err on the side of thinking everyone has bad days sometimes and to not take it to heart. Yes if they did it multiple times over, then I would move on, but otherwise, I would just try and forget it.

You said she was not there at the start of the lesson, perhaps she had something going on in her life that made her late, and it extended into her being not in a good space for teaching.

Regarding the lesson start time, maybe she has told others and not you, and she thought she had told you. Then combined with the maybe something going on in her life, she reacted to that inappropriately.

Sorry you had a non-fulfilling lesson anyway. I hope the next one is better.


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## Part-Boarder (Aug 17, 2019)

Sorry to hear! It is so strange how some trainers can be great with horses and terrible with people. Is your trainer always abrupt/harsh like this or was it maybe a bad day? Is there another trainer you could switch to? Is the trainer also the barn owner? If so that makes it more complicated.

If you feel that overall the instruction is sound and the relationship has been ok, probably best to chalk it up to an off day. Or if it is consistent, then tell her that you are really sensitive (though it’s her not you, she would hear it better this way) and prefer if she could be a little lighter in her correction and that you need the communication device during lessons (could be she was yelling to be heard and also frustrated about that; less able to put the nuance into her instructions). 

As a trainer, she should be adept in adapting her approach to what the horse needs so hopefully it’s not a far stretch for her to soften up to better meet the needs of her paying student. If she can’t and there are other places you can go to board/train, then I agree with the previous poster, time to look elsewhere. You shouldn’t have to accept behaviour like this (especially the yelling) in a service you are paying for.


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## twhvlr (Jul 5, 2017)

None ot this is ok. If I would have treated anyone like this when I was working, I would have been told to get out and don’t let the door hit your backside on the way!
You have been having doubts about this trainer for a while now so it is time to be proactive and do what is best for you and the horse and GET OUT of there. She is rude, unprofessional, not a great trainer nor teacher, and questionably abusive. I sure hope that the horse doesn’t end up with issues that you will be dealing with for years.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Yes, everyone can have a bad day. Don't let her treat you this way a third time. Meaning: If it happens a second time, be done with her.

I did have a coach who was mean to me. Frequently made fun of me in group sessions. But I was learning and improving, so I continued.

The good part was when we both ended up at a party and she was tipsy. She laughed and said she couldn't believe i kept coming back. I smiled and said, "I was amused that, in spite of your apparent dislike, you kept working for me." And we all laughed. I actually got a lucrative little side job from a local businessman who overheard that exchange. He liked my grit.


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## ksbowman (Oct 30, 2018)

Guys if you have been following Arago's threads on the on going problems she has been having with this trainer including the trainer being abusive to her horse and her. To top it off she is driving a 300 mile round trip to see her horse and take this abuse.


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## Part-Boarder (Aug 17, 2019)

ksbowman said:


> Guys if you have been following Arago's threads on the on going problems she has been having with this trainer including the trainer being abusive to her horse and her. To top it off she is driving a 300 mile round trip to see her horse and take this abuse.


My goodness!


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

My old instructor was like this. Anything you did wrong in a lesson she'd treat as though you had done it deliberately to upset her. Everything was your fault. And she wouldn't raise her voice on windy days and then she's get upset because people weren't "listening" to her. I sat in on so many kids lessons where the kids couldn't hear her, but she would turn around every time and tell me the kids had oppositional defiant disorder. The kids would even come up to her and say they couldn't hear her, but she would just ignore it. If you did something wrong, she'd go off on a lecture on a subject that was only tangentially related, e.g. if I'd lose contact because I was doing some exercise where I was concentrating really hard on something else, she'd give me a ten-minute lecture on how I thought I was being kind by not having consistent contact, but really it was bad for him and I needed to get the idea out of my head. I knew all of that and did not need to be lectured on it. Once she got started she was unstoppable.

She wasn't like this every lesson, but it was frequent. It's hard to learn from someone who is making a lot of incorrect assumptions about why you are doing what you are doing.

I don't think the two situations are entirely the same, but they are similar. If you're not learning from her, then stop the lessons. I know you were thinking about moving him -- I'd do it sooner rather than later.


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

Arago, you need to take lessons from someone else. She is wrong for you. Period. It doesn't matter whether she treats others as poorly as she treats you or not, she is being dismissive and perhaps she really doesn't want to give you lessons and is trying to get you to find another instructor. I am pushing 70 and there are some instructors who just don't like working with older people and have a bit of a bias. BTDT. Kudos to you for taking lessons and learning to ride!


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## StellarGrove (Jun 30, 2020)

If you need a referral for a good trainer in Oregon, I know one who is highly experienced and educated, gentle with horses, and encouraging with people. What you are experiencing is not ok. You can pm me if you’d like her name.


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

I dismounted and walked off a few times. Rude instructor, rank horse or (usually) both. Once I didn’t even take the horse back to the stable, I just handed it to the rude instructor. I am usually a very, very friendly person who almost never looses her cool but that is mostly because I don’t allow anyone to push me around and people feel it without me having to demonstrate it.

Strangely, it’s only people in the equestrian industry who sometimes fail to pick up on this in advance. Outside of the industry I never have to make such gestures.

In short, would you let anyone else you pay for a service treat you like that? Your plumber? Dentist? Hairdresser? French teacher? I’m guessing not.

I have no idea why it’s so common for people in the equestrian industry to feel like they are irreplaceable super stars.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I think I would have shut down. I can't ride for people like that...


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

When I read the title, I thought I'd come in here and say we've all felt like it just wasn't coming together and you should always follow through so you feel you are progressing. But then I read your post. Walk away. Especially if this is not the first time you have a bad experience with this person. She reminds me of a dressage coach my daughter worked with many years ago. She was a complete nutjob. We found someone else pretty quickly. 

Some coaches are tough, and some make a lot of assumptions about what you might know, so this can certainly lead to frustration on the part of riders. But it sounds to me like you are really not enjoying your riding and quite bluntly, do you really want to waste your time and money on this? I think it's important to find a coach that you're happy to work with. You deserve that.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Leave. Don't go back. She's a jerk and shouldn't be teaching anyone anything.


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

She yells at students like this. It's not just me. Her own daughter she insults horribly and threatens to take her horse away and she will never ride again. The lesson before this when she yelled (and granted it was for something I was doing wrong or not doing) and when calmed down she said "I know you're sensitive and that you've had a head injury. So I try to be nicer." When she yells it is in the horse's best interest. Because I am doing something that could confuse or harm the horse. She yelled because I was snatching back the reins when I got him to canter. She said (yelled) The reins are not the handlebars of a bicycle! She said that could teach him to rear and then she'd have to shoot him! I said you'd have to shoot me too. This certainly wound me up tighter even BUT. Because I did not quit right there I did learn to ask for the canter correctly. To sit down and sit back and hold the reins in a way to open the gate for the horse, so to speak.

I had wanted him to trot slower. She yelled This is a big moving Saddlebred not a jogging Quarterhorse! They don't move like that. In my experience the horse has a relaxed trot, a ground covering trot and a fast flying trot. I love this trot.

This ride he was halting by taking many extra steps. Last time he just halted. So I had read in a book that you want to halt you should give the horse a signal to get ready to halt by begin to squeezing the reins and begin to close your fingers. I was doing this and she yelled What are you doing? I said what I was doing and she said He has been under saddle for 8 months! That takes years,YEARS. She yelled Every time you pull on a rein it must mean something you are telling horse or else all your signals will become meaningless. This squeeze on the rein does not mean anything to him. 

Later I told my cowboy horseman husband about all this and he said laughed and said If he was ridden 30 miles I bet he would jog and stop  He says you stop a horse with your whole body. You 'stop riding' you become like a sack of potatos, you relax and sit back like in a chair. Then you give a soft rein signal to stop. This in a trained horse it takes riding but not years.

In three weeks from now I am bring my horse home. As much as I now dread these lessons I think I might as well ride this out. She means well and I do somehow learn things. I will have a talk with her. I will say my rides need to be on days she is not time stressed and I would like the earpiece system so Soften does not sound like Sock him. Also, maybe then she will not yell. If she yells with the earpiece I am dismounting and leading him out.


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

There is no excuse for an instructor yelling and being hostile. So damaging to one's self esteem. I would not be able to relax and ride with all that yelling. She sounds like the classic military drill instructor, tearing down the recruits. Hope if you continue she gets to the "building back up " phase. Does she ever tell you what you are doing right?


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Whinnie said:


> ... Does she ever tell you what you are doing right?


If she doesn't? Ask her straight out. "What am I doing right?"


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

If you stay - you will go backwards. I would go somewhere else or get a different instructor. She isn't going to work for you.


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## MeditativeRider (Feb 5, 2019)

I am sorry you have had a history of this with the instructor; I have not read any of your previous posts.

Sorry you have had a head injury. I hope your healing continues to progress over time.

I would not be anti-staying if I knew I had a leaving date, was learning something, and it was something that would not affect my mental health. If it is affecting your mental health, then leave. If you want to see our the last 3 weeks, I would tell both the instructor and myself some things firmly. The instructor would be firmly told that she needs the communication device for every lesson, and if you are driving a long distance, I would be ringing her or texting her first too on the day to remind her to have it ready; and I would tell her in no uncertain terms she is a paid professional there to teach you and any fair and polite critique of your riding is fair but she is not allowed to yell or resort to personal insults. If she threw her toys with being told that, then I would leave immediately. I would also tell myself firmly that it is her not me. She has a lot of noise and not much signal; I would tell myself to ignore the noise and just try pick up on the signal.


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

Believe me I can hardly wait to get out of there but I'm paid up until the last week of this month. I just want to find out how she had trained my horse. What are his signals? And I want to learn to reproduce these signals. He does get excellent care and is healthy and fit. When he got there shipped from New Jersey 8 months ago he was stressed out, thin, dull coat, had ulcers and was a squirrel temperamentally.


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## GoBlue (Mar 15, 2017)

I walked out on a lesson once. I didn't have a horse at the time and was just starting, so I didn't have any commitment to the place. The woman was a yeller too, but worse than that she seemed a little unhinged. I hopped off 10 minutes into my third lesson. I mean, it was super awkward. A lot of people where there. It was such IMMEDIATE relief, I can't even tell you. Later I would learn that she had a bad reputation and the first word people use about her is "crazy". I've also refused to get on an overly spooky horse for a lesson. That got me berated until the barn worker (who rides horses for a living!) hopped up and was unseated half way around the arena because of a spook. 

I also took lessons for a long time with another yeller. I kept telling myself "it's like having a tough coach" (I played sports in high school and a good coach can bring out good things and sometimes a little toughness helps). I kept telling myself, "she can't help it". I kept telling myself, "she's tough, but she's a good person." I kept telling myself, "she takes good care of my horse". I believe all of those things, but it didn't matter. The yelling is disrespectful to me as an adult. It's counter-productive to me as a student. The overwhelming tone of exasperation implying idiocy on my part was killing my confidence. It set me back. Confidence can be tough to recover. Best not to let anyone take it from you or chip away at it. 

I really agree with @farmpony84 . I would consider whether riding out the lessons is worth it, even if you've already paid for them. Can you even learn those signals from her when she keeps yelling down your questions? Your husband sounds like he can do more for your horse's training and for your riding than this trainer.


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

Meditative rider, here is the original subject What would you expect after 180 training rides?

Girl....in 2010 I fell off from where you throw stuff off of at the dump. I fell 16' straight down and hit my head on bare steel. It was an empty giant dumpster they haul away on semi trucks. I was found in a pool of blood 1/2 an hour later and was flown away in the helicopter to the ICU where I used to work. and put on a vent. The side of my head was caved in and I had a LaForte fracture Grade 3. That is when every bone in your face is broken. I had bleeding and air inside my brain, plus a broken pelvis and a compound fracture of my arm. It is a miracle of God that I am not a vegetable. I had 2 operations on my arm, three on my face and the sight was restored in one eye. Not only that, but I am still reasonably good looking. My IQ was tested by my neurologist and it is still high and unchanged. Do you think some egotistical female dog of a trainer going to break me? Heck no! One thing that many head injury people have is loss of inhibition. They get instantly furiously mad and will do rash things. I am on a medicine for that. Boy, recently that medicine has sure been tested. I think I should suggest the trainer should be on this medicine

GoBlue, if I can make it back from having my head caved in I can make it through these lessons, get what can be gotten for the sake of my horse. Then I can have my husband teach me and take a lesson or two locally for outside eyes opinion. There is a lady in this county that owns and runs a stable. I could go watch some lessons and see if it would be a fit (with no fits)


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

Reasonably good looking This was 18 months after the accident. My left eyebrow is paralyzed but I fix it with skin colored paper tape.


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

You can probably find out what your horse's cues are by having another professional ride him, unless she is off the wall with her training. Have you watched her ride him? Does he look obedient under saddle, accomplishing what you were wanting?


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## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

There is yelling in encouragement or frustration "c'mon I KNOW you can do this".. then there is angry yelling and belittling comments. I like strict instructors with a good and empathetic work ethic and I rather enjoy being whipped into shape occasionally 

I've walked out of quite a few and one even flipped the bird on my way out. You come across in all your posts as having enough common sense and experience to work your horse out with a better instructor anyway ^>^ My only other suggestion was maybe a few rides with her on him and asking her to talk through what she's doing, maybe recording it, the limelight might butter her up a bit. A lot of what helped me with my mare in the early days was doing exactly this. It gave me so much more confidence to try copy them when I got on (and then subsequently beat myself up when they did it beautifully and I looked like spaghetti ). 

I only know of three instructors of the 30ish (feels like hundreds) I've tried that really have a passion for teaching both horse and rider. You can just see them beaming at every bit of progress. Especially hard when I have zero intention to show which puts quite a few off. Amazing story about your recovery you'd never know!


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

Whinny, no, she never let me see her ride him. As I said in the 180 rides thread she won't ride him while I watch. I said I will pay you, its a lesson. Nope, she would not do it. I don't remember what the excuse was.

I drove up there to watch her ride her 2 best dressage mares in a lesson given by her dressage judge trainer. She was getting lessons and polishing her riding for an upcoming show or test, whatever they call it. They used the earpiece so I could only hear what her teacher was saying. There was no yelling. They kept practicing some kind of change of lead exercise that is done diagonally across the arena. She was using a snaffle. The trainer said if you go to a full bridle this expects a higher level.

Here is what dressage looks like to me to my untrained eyes. It looks like people are holding them back while spurring them on. They use all kinds of straps and nosebands to hold what is supposed to be a willing horse's mouth shut. I never had a lesson in my life of 50 years riding trail. I learned from books and experience. Somehow I got my horses to cross mountains and forests on and off trails, cross rivers, get out of forest fires by jumping, ride at night, race, ride in parades. Somehow I survived. Granted, my horses were not light and well trained and I am not trained. I don't want to make my beautiful Saddlebred dull, hard mouthed and hard sided because of my lack of knowledge.

After her lesson my trainers 12 year old daughter had a lesson on her own horse. The dressage teacher kept asking the child questions about what she's been taught to do and what she should do and what she is doing and the child, teenager-like, kept saying I don't know. Finally the teacher quietly said If you cannot say anything but I don't know why I am here and the lesson is finished.


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## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

Wow she would never demonstrate to you her training or riding skills? I've NEVER had that. Usually they are too eager to show off for_ free_ never had the opposite :O That alone would give me pause. I was a bit naïve and frightened when I got my mare so I went with the flow. I fortunately had lovely people to patiently demonstrate. Even THEN I still insisted on watching people ride, even my first sharer. I don't think I'd ever be happy having someone train any animal of mine that is afraid to demonstrate in person. I always explained that I don't expect perfect, in fact learning how they navigate any weaknesses or a problem was far more educational. She might be a nice rider but from what you've said struggling likely as a teacher, on the defensive... 

I think dressage is amazing at its core and my all three of my favourite instructors funnily enough were all highly rated dressage trainers, one an ex-national level judge, following the footsteps of her own mother who founded their school. All three emphasized relaxation, consistency and teaching the horse to carry itself, no gadgets or "shortcuts". Those that truly understand dressage, and I say this as someone still learning basics, are very different from those I've met, more commonly, that are interested in _just_ ribbons and prestige and fancy moves. Honestly there was nothing more amazing for me than watching the process of teaching a horse a flying lead change. Or teaching my mare how to do haunches in from the ground. Watching her brain tick over, trying to please and enjoying learning something new. How happy everyone was when she took that first step correctly, albeit a bit wonky. I can see it being addictive, definitely. I also see how in any activity or obstacle faced on the trail would also bring the same amount of challenge and joy. Ultimately it's people that ruin it :<

Your instructor feels like she's maybe a bit insecure, a bit of a perfectionist afraid to show up? Clearly struggling with communication. I feel sorry for her but its your money and you and your horse deserve better!


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

She freely admits that she "came up poor". Not from rich parents with $300,000 horses with even more expensive trainers. I think that may be the root of it. She is really a very good rider. I have only a few weeks to go. But its funny, as puffed up as I am about my life and riding experience and toughness at overcoming obstacles, I feel dread at the idea of the next lesson. I have never felt that was before.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Are you getting anything out of these lessons? If not, then just stop them.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

AragoASB said:


> Here is what dressage looks like to me to my untrained eyes. It looks like people are holding them back while spurring them on. They use all kinds of straps and nosebands to hold what is supposed to be a willing horse's mouth shut.


Um, no, that's not what dressage should look like at all. True, the riders are asking the horses to engage from behind and be on the bit in the front, but if you watch this video of one of the greatest dressage riders today, Charlotte Dujardin on Valegro, the horse's bottom lip is moving the entire time and his mouth isn't held shut. 






Spurs are used, yes, but must not be abused as that will get the rider disqualified. The spurs are there to give the horse very subtle cues because in dressage, the riders try to make their cues near invisible. The double set of reins also allows for a broader range of cues. 

At a far more basic level, this was my daughter working on Level 1 dressage last year with her coach. Notice her horse is wearing a very simple bridle with a plain D-ring snaffle bit. The reins are not even tight - there is contact, but she isn't forcing this head set. This is all achieved through gentle training - not yelling or gadgets. My point is that it is possible. It just requires a lot of time and patience to train a horse rather than force it. Is your trainer riding your horse with all kinds of gadgets on his face? Because if so, once they come off, he will not maintain the same headset/posture without them. That's the problem with using gadgets in my very humble opinion. 











I'm sorry about your accident - it sounds horrific. Glad you're ok. But it is NOT normal for someone to train your horse then refuse to ride him in front of you. That sends all kinds of red flags up. You're right to want to know how she trained him, but you don't need to take any abuse from this coach.


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

Even though you are paid up until the end of the month, if it were me I would just leave and cut my losses. Big red flag that she won't ride your horse for you to observe. You have paid her to work that horse. She blames you for the horse not performing correctly, but her not wanting to show what the horse can do under saddle tells me that you didn't get the training you paid for and she is putting you on the horse and then blaming you for the poor performance.


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## Dollarhorse (Mar 23, 2021)

Had a different reply, but after reading more posts I offer something simpler- get out and don’t look back.


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

I agree with you ladies and I can't wait to get out of there. But at these two last awful lessons I did learn something about how to ride this horse. I might as well tough it out. 

At her own lesson with the dressage judge/teacher she rode in a snaffle with a flash noseband. There was some discussion of going to a full bridle but this would be a higher level. There is level 1,2 3 I guess.

I admire dressage. When I was a working nurse I took care of Colonel Rochawansky and flew him back to England as his flight nurse. He gave me this picture.









To me, the ideal is dressage is like dancing the waltz with a horse instead of a person. Like leading with small pressures of their hand at the small of your back. This is the ideal. It is not something I wish to devote my life to at this stage.

She is not riding him with all kinds of gadgets on his face- she says- but I don't know for sure since she does not let me see her ride. She says she rides him in my bitless bridle. It is a Dr. Cook, but I don't have the reins crossed under his jaw. They are attached to the side rings on the bridle. It seems to me that the cross under jaw gives signals that are counter intuitive. This is a bridle I used to ride my Arab stallion in. 

Anyway, at first I rode him lessons in a snaffle but my untrained hands and arms made so much 'noise' she wanted me to go bitless. Well, as hard as I have to haul on him to turn, give cues or stop the horse plus the stupid things I do it is a good thing I am not in his mouth. She says you will develop lightness, it takes time. Meanwhile, I have ordered a nice snaffle bridle to use at home under the teaching of my husband and any local qualified trainer I can find.


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

I agree with everybody recommending that you ditch this trainer. In my opinion, it's important for you to be calm and maintain your dignity while you tell her that the way she treats others is not acceptable, and that the reason you won't be going back there is because she has been rude and disrespectful. Perhaps give some specific examples, if you can do so without losing your dignity. It seems unfathomable that some people have no idea how they come across - and it's actually helpful to them if you tell them. She has no right to treat you the way she's treating you and you certainly do not have to put up with it. If you feel like giving her a chance to improve her behavior you can, but you don't owe her anything.

My boss treats people very poorly and many have quit because of it. She makes extremely negative assumptions about people. I do not intend to leave my position unless I find a better one. Since it's a good position, I decided to speak up with dignity. I practiced what I would say and then when she insulted me I said "What you just said to me is incredibly insulting. I do not know why you would have hired me if you think so lowly of me." She was taken aback and has been much more careful about what she says to me since then. She now has it in her head that I'm overly sensitive so before she gives me negative feedback she prefaces it with a compliment and phrases things more carefully. That's OK with me - I've noticed she's more careful about how she talks to others now, too. I don't know how many people quit without telling her how she made them feel.

Your trainer is not your boss - she is your employee. You have every right to demand respect.


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

I was thinking of explaining it like this- You know how when a horse is trained with rough methods and beatings and now dreads being ridden?


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

AragoASB said:


> I was thinking of explaining it like this- You know how when a horse is trained with rough methods and beatings and now dreads being ridden?


Great way to start the conversation. You can continue with something like "Well, you may not realize it but you're treating me roughly and it's making me dread coming to lessons."


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

Oh - I just remembered what else I said to my boss. I said "you seem to hold me in very low esteem." She was surprised I felt that way.


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

I don't and won't focus on myself. My self esteem is home made and is very high.  I'll say you know how if a trainer beats a horse, especially a sensitive horse, they dread being ridden? Thats what you are doing to me. Just show me the cues you taught him and leave me out of it, personally. If I do it wrong say not like that, like this.

If I criticize her she will go off, and I will not be able to learn what I need to learn in the time I have to learn it for the best for the horse.


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

I


AragoASB said:


> I don't and won't focus on myself. My self esteem is home made and is very high.  I'll say you know how if a trainer beats a horse, especially a sensitive horse, they dread being ridden? Thats what you are doing to me. Just show me the cues you taught him and leave me out of it, personally. If I do it wrong say not like that, like this.
> 
> If I criticize her she will go off, and I will not be able to learn what I need to learn in the time I have to learn it for the best for the horse.


Yes! I can't wait to hear how it goes.


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

She texted about lesson this Thursday or Friday. I picked Thursday. My feeling of dread has worn off.


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## dkgoodman (Oct 20, 2013)

AragoASB said:


> Today was horrible. To start with I was on time and the trainer was nowhere to be seen. I was told she would be back in a little while. I went to get my horse. When I came back with him she was there and scolded me for being late. "These lessons start at 2: you know. You should be ready to go. Just groom the saddle and girth areas. I quietly said this is the first I've heard of this (it's been 8 months). I always arrive at the specified time and prepare my horse. She even scolded me for picking his feet out "He doesn't need that" as I dug some stones out from under a branch of his shoe.
> 
> Then the lesson.. I did fine walking him and she said it was good. Then she asked for the trot- in my opinion he was going too fast and I tried to slow him down and rate him like she taught the last time. "What are you doing!" and the yelling began. I tried to explain and she went off WHY do you want to fight with me? I am a professional and you are a student! This horse has done nothing wrong! I got tensed up and angry and I knew my young horse could feel that. I wondered- why continue? I almost dismounted, put up the stirrups and led him out.
> 
> ...


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## melissaburn (Aug 20, 2020)

I agree with those who say you should not accept this kind of treatment. I am 66 yrs old, not very experienced with horses, and need a good trainer. Fortunately, I have one who tries to meet my needs for communication as well as instruction. She would never berate me like your trainer has you. Instead, she provides the reasons and descriptions I need so I can "get it". Even if your trainer was having a bad day, she's not allowed to take it out on you. I've read that you need to check your own "bad day" when you approach your horse so he/she experiences a balanced, fair, kind human. The same is true for trainers approaching their horse-student pair.


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## Foreverivy (Nov 12, 2020)

AragoASB said:


> Today was horrible. To start with I was on time and the trainer was nowhere to be seen. I was told she would be back in a little while. I went to get my horse. When I came back with him she was there and scolded me for being late. "These lessons start at 2: you know. You should be ready to go. Just groom the saddle and girth areas. I quietly said this is the first I've heard of this (it's been 8 months). I always arrive at the specified time and prepare my horse. She even scolded me for picking his feet out "He doesn't need that" as I dug some stones out from under a branch of his shoe.
> 
> Then the lesson.. I did fine walking him and she said it was good. Then she asked for the trot- in my opinion he was going too fast and I tried to slow him down and rate him like she taught the last time. "What are you doing!" and the yelling began. I tried to explain and she went off WHY do you want to fight with me? I am a professional and you are a student! This horse has done nothing wrong! I got tensed up and angry and I knew my young horse could feel that. I wondered- why continue? I almost dismounted, put up the stirrups and led him out.
> 
> ...


This is ridiculous. Your trainer should be calmly helping you to learn to ride a horse, not stressing you out by yelling at you. The worst possible thing for riding is tension and stress, when you’re anxious you tighten your muscles and to the horse it feels like a clamp on their back, something they can’t soften to. When you relax and enjoy yourself, your horse can relax as well. That’s the technical side, putting aside the fact that riding is a hobby and should be fun!! Everyone has bad days of course but it sounds like your trainer is the source of it and that’s not ok. Drop her! There are 95 million trainers in the world, find one who respects you.


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## cassie17 (Jun 16, 2013)

AragoASB said:


> Today was horrible. To start with I was on time and the trainer was nowhere to be seen. I was told she would be back in a little while. I went to get my horse. When I came back with him she was there and scolded me for being late. "These lessons start at 2: you know. You should be ready to go. Just groom the saddle and girth areas. I quietly said this is the first I've heard of this (it's been 8 months). I always arrive at the specified time and prepare my horse. She even scolded me for picking his feet out "He doesn't need that" as I dug some stones out from under a branch of his shoe.
> 
> Then the lesson.. I did fine walking him and she said it was good. Then she asked for the trot- in my opinion he was going too fast and I tried to slow him down and rate him like she taught the last time. "What are you doing!" and the yelling began. I tried to explain and she went off WHY do you want to fight with me? I am a professional and you are a student! This horse has done nothing wrong! I got tensed up and angry and I knew my young horse could feel that. I wondered- why continue? I almost dismounted, put up the stirrups and led him out.
> 
> ...


People with a good knowledge and experience of any particular subject or topic, quite often then think they are in a position to teach. Unfortunately teaching itself is a whole new field of knowledge and just as important as knowing the subject matter itself. It involves not only management of students but equally management of yourself. It would appear that your instructor has knowledge of the horse training but very little knowledge of teaching, which is equally important. Stress is a very important aspect when training people or animals because this will seriously effect their ability to take in information. What is most important to the brain is survival and once you hit the stress button it is only interested in getting out of a potentially harmful situation. It this point processing information is of secondary importance. That is why you wanted to walk out. This is of particular importance when training animals as beating up an animal, because it doesn't understand, will only make matters worse. Your trainer may be terrific at her work with horses but you need teaching ability to make it come together. And may I add, at the end of the day you are paying good dollars for substandard service.


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## Light (Mar 4, 2012)

Hi.
I am older and don’t take well to people yelling at me. It causes me to yell back.
The bottom line is that you are spending your money, you are paying her. Not the pther way around. She has the privilege to train you and get paid for it. If she doesn’t appreciate that and can’t be professional then walk. 
Horses and training won’t be all kittens and rainbows but it should never leave you feeling like you are describing.
This woman sounds like a bully. Time to leave.


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## gottaquarter (Jun 8, 2012)

Goodness......that’s terrible. I know I wouldn’t do well with a trainer like that, and I would absolutely dread lesson time. If she was having a bad day that’s one thing but if this is her “normal” I would end my relationship with her and find someone more encouraging. I’m 60 and very easy going but if someone berated me about the late situation I would definitely defend myself. And yes, it would give me great satisfaction if I wanted to end the lesson early to get off, go up to her and lecture her in a calm but serious tone on why I wouldn’t be having anymore lessons with her. Sometimes it just feels good to say your peace to someone who is making your paying time with them miserable for you-I’m not in a habit of being outspoken and can certainly hold my tongue to avoid any dreaded drama, but this person sounds like she needs someone to tell her her attack mode style of teaching is not helpful and make her aware of what others hear. I feel so sorry for her daughter, who must be young......she’s being set up to a life of never good enough and a mother who is nothing more than a bully herself. Thank goodness your situation will be changing soon!


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

I heartily agree with all of the above and thank you. In an hour I am leaving to drive up there for another lesson. I am having to keep back the returning feelings of dread. I must not have this feeling when I ride my horse, like you say he will know. So I am replacing dread with imagining how happy I will be to see him, to groom him and feed him carrots, to make him mind his ground manners and give praise, the feel the joy of riding him, the way he moves. To see his astonishing beauty, to learn the signals he has been taught. I look forward to all these good things.

Heres the thing- in two weeks I am taking the horse home for the first time. Two weeks is not enough to develop a better relationship with this woman. So if and when she yells, and I do believe at the root of it she is thinking of what is best for the horse, when she yells I will quietly laugh to myself, relax and put up with it. It is only a couple of more lessons, at the most.


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## dandpchase (Oct 10, 2019)

So glad that you're leaving! Please remember - the bottom line is that you pay her, so SHE WORKS FOR YOU. I'm also an older rider who has been in a similar situation and almost walked out of a group lesson (but was too shocked and honestly also too much of a chicken), and will never tolerate that behavior again. And by the way, 'reasonably good looking'?? You're gorgeous, and your strength shines through!!


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

Well......how did it go?


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## addctd2horses (Jul 10, 2020)

Get a different instructor! I'm also an older rider at 56 years old. As a doctor, I've been the student and the teacher. I also homeschooled 8 children. Four of them were adopted as old as teens and Russian was their native language. A GOOD teacher knows how to take a skill, break it down, and MAKE LEARNING FUN! It doesn't matter how old you are. Learning something new, especially a physical activity, is really good for your mind and body! However, if the teacher isn't excited to teach you something, you will quickly be reduced to her level of anger and frustration. Some people simply are gifted to teach and you deserve that kind of person! I know how much it matters because I taught 8 children everyday to LOVE LEARNING anything new! They very quickly picked up on my attitude and excitement. As a Dressage student myself, starting in my late 40's, I had a teacher that wasn't excited to teach. It did matter, but I kept her because she had a talent for breaking skills down to smaller parts and being able to communicate it. It's difficult to find a teacher that knows how to do this effectively, so I tolerated her. It has colored my wanting to go back and find somebody new, and that makes me angry. Don't make my mistake. I'd pay double what I did for my old Dressage teacher to have a person who is fun and enthusiastic. I'd go one step farther. I wouldn't have a confrontation, but I would write a short, honest note about why I was leaving. It may change nothing. I'd venture to say it won't. But I feel as the wiser person, we should impart our wisdom to a person when they need it. It's up to them if they listen and change things.


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

Sorry, I am a little confused, your original post starting this thread seemed that you were very upset and asking opinions on these lessons and the instructor, and then as opinions were offered it seemed you are defending and justifying the instructor's behavior?


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

I am not defending and justifying her behavior. Like a mature adult, I am simply trying to understand this from all sides. She is a good trainer of horses and an excellent rider, she is just not a great teacher. Before our most recent lesson the day before yesterday she rode her retired 22 year old Grand Prix horse she bought back from a friend because the lady is pregnant. While I was warming up my horse she worked him, showed me his Piaffe, Spanish Walk, flying change of lead every 4 strides and other ballet moves I do not know the names of. The horse can literally dance. Then she had her barn manager take him cool him out and put him up to concentrate on my lesson.

I think she has been thinking about she and I not meshing. She really tried. This latest lesson she was positive and kind. She did not yell, she said not like that, like this. I found out a defect in our communication. She had me trot my horse, rate him slow him down and instantly stop rein pressure and give praise when he is at the desired speed. Later in the lesson she had me trot him and said What are you doing? Why are you pulling on his face like that? (it is a bitless bridle) I said I am trying to slow him down. She said but I was asking for his normal fast trot. I realized what I was doing is carrying forward things I had learned in other lessons that were not the new skill we were working on. This really messes me up. I learned that in a lesson the way she teaches you have to do exactly what is asked for, you have to live in the moment like a horse does.

She did not have a lot to do that day. She had timed the lesson so it would be like that. At the end I sat on my horse and we had a great heart to heart talk. She said that she knows I had had a head injury but I yelled at her too. She said people have commented about it. I did not notice that I had been yelling. To me I was explaining what I was doing and why. She said she knows I am really a sweet and sensitive person but because of traumatic brain injury people have loss of inhibition. She told me about her her own issues she has to deal with in life. That she has ADHD and dyslexia. When she rides a dressage test she has to wear two different colored gloves because she does not know her right from her left. She said she is bipolar. That she had gotten her first horse when she was 15 and rode for years having no lessons like I have done. Then she wanted to learn the art of riding and took lessons and studied hard. And that she had only figured it out and found out the feel of it when she was 32 (she is 37 now). Thats how long it took her to learn and she is still a student. If I had dismounted and led him out three lessons ago these things would never have been known.


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## Luna’s rider (Jan 23, 2021)

AragoASB said:


> I am not defending and justifying her behavior. Like an adult, I am simply trying to understand this from all sides. She is a good trainer of horses and an excellent rider, she is just not a great teacher. Before our most recent lesson the day before yesterday she rode her retired 22 year old Grand Prix horse she bought back from a friend because the lady is pregnant. While I was warming up my horse she worked him, showed me his Piaffe, Spanish Walk, flying change of lead every 4 strides and other ballet moves I do not know the names of. The horse can literally dance. Then she had her barn manager take him cool him out and put him up to concentrate on my lesson.
> 
> I think she has been thinking about she and I not meshing. She really tried. This latest lesson she was positive and kind. She did not yell, she said not like that, like this. I found out a defect in our communication. She had me trot my horse, rate him slow him down and instantly stop rein pressure and give praise when he is at the desired speed. Later in the lesson she had me trot him and said What are you doing? Why are you pulling on his face like that? (it is a bitless bridle) I said I am trying to slow him down. She said but I was asking for his normal fast trot. I realized what I was doing is carrying forward things I had learned in other lessons that were not the new skill we were working on. This really messes me up. I learned that in a lesson the way she teaches you have to do exactly what is asked for, you have to live in the moment like a horse does.
> 
> She did not have a lot to do that day. She had timed the lesson so it would be like that. At the end I sat on my horse and we had a great heart to heart talk. She said that she knows I had had a head injury but I yelled at her too. She said people have commented about it. I did not notice that I had been yelling. To me I was explaining what I was doing and why. She said she knows I am really a sweet and sensitive person but because of traumatic brain injury people have loss of inhibition. She told me about her her own issues she has to deal with in life. That she has ADHD and dyslexia. When she rides a dressage test she has to wear two different colored gloves because she does not know her right from her left. She said she is bipolar. That she had gotten her first horse when she was 15 and rode for years having no lessons like I have done. Then she wanted to learn the art of riding and took lessons and studied hard. And that she had only figured it out and found out the feel of it when she was 32 (she is 37 now). Thats how long it took her to learn and she is still a student. If I had dismounted and led him out three lessons ago these things would never have been known.


Looks like you found a place to meet half way?


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

Yep. The next lesson is Thursday


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

AragoASB said:


> Yep. The next lesson is Thursday


I'm glad to hear that.


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## MeditativeRider (Feb 5, 2019)

I think its great you went back and with such an open mind to things. I am the same as you and think we can always have something to learn from everyone.

The different colored gloves is a genius idea. I also don't know my left from right. Well obviously I know them but if you say go left to me when I am riding (or use your left leg), I cannot make those brain connections. My coach does a lot of "go this way" and walking things out to show me. Really I should have been able to think of something like putting a colored sticker on each glove that I can see. At my daughter's ballet, for the kids that can't do left and right, the teacher sticks a red hair scrunchy on their right leg.


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

Another way is to think of it is left is the driver's side. Although in your country the right is the driver's side I guess. 

I am glad I stuck it out too. It was best for the horse.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I've read all of this thread and near every post you have ever written on this forum...
You do recognize that this instructor gave you a list of excuses for her deplorable behavior towards you...and you accepted it and swallowed every bit of it.
I'm not saying she doesn't also have issues... 
I am saying it gives her no right to treat you as she has..._that is her problem._
And she has snowballed you into placating your anger in how she has treated you, and she already knew when this all started that you have issues that "taking a magical pill for ADHD" has awesome effects for thousands of people also afflicted with her ailment{s}....will not work for the kind of brain issues you do have.

Your time is limited in when you ride and I truly understand you wanting to know as much about how your horse has been worked and trained...
Have you asked her to please legibly write out...type it on a computer if she rather...but put it in writing she does this to achieve that.
A written tutorial because her in-person training of you astride has left much uncovered.
If she won't write it she can dictate it to a recording device...hand-held cassette tape works wonderfully. As she is riding she can vocalize what she is doing so you learn and can copy her as best you can.
The fact she refuses to allow you to see her ride your horse she is paid to "train" makes me truly wonder if she is riding or if she has someone else riding while she screeches at them.. This is a enormous red-flag to me...enormous.
Regardless of where the horse is in the education astride, _you need to know_ where they are and what buttons she has taught so you can work with those buttons to either keep them or change them if you not approve of them in honesty.
That is only fair a request made by you and met by her, period!

Now...my other immediate response to "she proudly got on a retired 22 year old Grand Prix horse she bought back from someone pregnant...".....
So...she rode a schoolmaster and made it look effortless and the horse did all these intricate maneuvers....
That horse if at that level,.. by moving your butt cheek should of been dancing for her in honesty....
Wiggle your finger, shift your behind, ride with a leg in a bit of different position, drop your hip....
_She sat on a made animal *does not *mean she trained it.._.
I am a effective rider and can work with many a animal to find their buttons that get them ticking in unison with me..and more importantly...I'm in unison and communication with them.
Do not be snowballed but take off the rosy glasses she tried to cover your eyes with and see her for what she is, what she has done, what she has not done and ...what is going to need to be retrained to your horse by someone who fills in the holes in the training you are about to discover when this animal goes home with you.

What you know you have is a animal you can get astride and ride.
The horse understands the basic of basics of w/t/c, turns and halt/stop.
Bitless bridle is fine to ride with when used correctly so communication as proper as possible can be delivered to the animal with gentleness and finesse.
You though need to know how to ride with a bit and quiet hand combination....
Has the horse been taught to ride with a bit and if so, you want to see the bit, photograph it and know where she bought it or the exact name, manufacturer of it so you can replicate it yourself with your new tack bought.
Snaffle bits, the most basic of them....must be several hundred choices between manufacturers and intricacies small but to the horse who carries that metal in its mouth mean a ton of difference in communication and understanding.

I have a gut feeling that you and with your husbands guidance will make enormous strides in the training of this horse that has had more than 180 rides on it and yet appears to know so little...
Her comment you relayed... "she had gotten her first horse when she was 15 and rode for years having no lessons like I have done. Then she wanted to learn the art of riding and took lessons and studied hard. And that she had only figured it out and found out the feel of it when she was 32 (she is 37 now). " and the fact the retired 22 year old Grand Prix horse do not mesh together when you do the simple math.
She bought a schoolmaster in the horse, but she _*did not*_ train it by her own admission of what she knows, what she learned and when....yea, no. I don't believe it..nope, no way.
To those who have understanding of what a true Grand Prix animal has been trained to do are also shaking their head...
I've sat on Grand Prix horses and did things I had no idea I moved or asked for...surprised I was was a understatement.
Holy cow the things I could in my innocence do astride on those animals..

Take your lessons, the few you have left.
Ask her for her to write or dictate those things she has worked on your horse with so you have a reference when riding and growing in your ability so you not confuse the animal....
Take all of your equipment, forget nothing, and leave when the time is up....
What you choose to say as a review of her or her business practice and tactics is your business...for me, honesty or say nothing is what she would face cause what she treated you and also the horse too is ridiculous...
Wait till the yelling and bad temper tantrums she has stop affecting your horse and bet you see a new animal emerge once home for a few weeks...the shell of the animal you think you know shall crack and a new animal emerge for you.
You are very right, she is not a good instructor, and she also is snowballing a lot of people of she did all this training...
She can't snowball people who have been there and understand a lot more of what is seen than what they hear come from her mouth...her actions speak loudly.
I hate to be watched riding...but I will mount up to demonstrate a animal can do or how to do if I must...
I have the knowledge, I don't have the gift to share my knowledge when it must be spoken during a live lesson...
I am not a trainer, and no way a instructor either. I am a rider, decent but far from great...
That if you are lucky is what has had your horse to train....
Any good rider with solid basics should be able to evaluate your horse and what has been taught and what was not in about an hours ride...then you go forward to fix, fill in or truly educate the animal, then both of you to learn together.
180 rides your horse should know and been introduced, but far from "made"...the foundation though should firmly be in place or the holes will be glaring to a real rider of decent ability. Truth.
You needed basic education put in place, not fancy if you are wanting a safe trail horse as you said elsewhere I remember. This horse needs to understand w/t/c, turns, stop...how to navigate uneven surfaces, think and be nonreactive if it gets the hooves caught in something...how to cross water safely, how to protect you, go over or around trees, open gates, close gates...ride in company or alone...how to load on a trailer of any design and stay put till told to get off.
It needs exposure to all the things we take for granted of garbage roadside blowing, smoke from a fire and not to panic but listen to you to get away from danger.
This animal needs life skills not the skills of a show horse but a working horse who will ride trails...basics that then as you ride together, learn to trust each other you expand and progress together in your expertise...

_I'm glad you are leaving. _
It's past time to go elsewhere or home as you want.
You both, the horse and you deserve better and _add your husband_ into that as you are so stressed & unhappy he walks on egg-shells to not upset you further. Truth...yes?
Now...don't allow her to walk all over you with excuses of why she can't give you verbal or written directions/instructions on what has been trained and is it finished, accomplished learned or a work in progress. 
She can, she must and no excuses do you take...for the sake of your horse you need to know.

I will now go 🤐 and continue to read and follow. 
I promise I will try to keep my fingers and hands still, away from the keyboard.
I wish you all the best....you got this and don't let this person tell you otherwise!
🐴...


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## twhvlr (Jul 5, 2017)

_“It was best for the horse.”_
Well only the future will tell for sure! I hope for his and your sake that this holds true.


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

Horseloving lady I always enjoy your council here and learn much from your advice.

But my goodness Horseloving lady, what a ball of anger. I could not even read all that. I do not feel this anger. It would not be good for my horse and anger would be poisonous for me. And as you said, "Regardless of where the horse is in the education astride, _you need to know_ where they are and what buttons she has taught so you can work with those buttons ". Exactly, that is why I am still there.

She did train the Grand Prix horse. Her barn manager told me months ago about this horse she had loved and trained, that she was bringing him home. She said he was a 10 year Eventer when she got him. Since one of the events is dressage he must have been trained in it but not to this level.

She has worse brain problems than I do and yet somehow she manages to function. *Everyone has a 'cross eyed bear' of some kind in life.* I suspect she did not always ride him 5 times a week but I'm not going to drag around a big bag of anger about it. In a week and a half I am bringing him home. In two more lessons I can finish learning the signals he has been taught in his bitless bridle.

Then my husband can teach us cowboy dressage. I had known my husband, my rancher neighbor, for almost 40 years before we were married. I have seen him train and ride for years. How amazing it is. He seems to ride lightly, mostly with his body and legs, not much on the reins. How refreshing after seeing all those dressage horses ridden on constant contact.

What a happy thing. Just today I finished the electric tape fence snaking along the river side of the pasture and my husband built the solid horse fence along the road. In fact, he fenced the whole 16 acres for horses himself. I had the barn built and I floored, walled and finished it. I also built the paddock myself although my husband dug a few post holes. We had to have a safe place to keep my horse while I finished these things. One whole side is a big stall for Arago. The other side is a stall for Dinky, his mini companion, and a hay room. After two or three more lessons I can learn the signals he was taught, bring him home and go from there. It's all good.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

No anger just frustration reading your posts and hearing your frustrations...
Its not my battle to fight or I would of been gone from this place a long time ago...
To many red flags, controversy of her and how she reacted to requests of learning what she is doing, how she is doing it and please demonstrate it...nope, not playing around I would of found a different place somewhere between this one and home and gone...
I've never been one to allow others to yell at me, regardless of why...don't yell at me.

Makes no difference what I would of done,..._its all been about you._
Very glad as I said that home is fast approaching for all of you.
If my hubby was as talented in the horse training aspect as yours...my horse would of been home a looooong time ago for educating under his approach which sounds refreshing, fair and good for the animal.
As said, _enjoy the new journey together in peace and harmony._
🐴...


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

Almost a year ago I could not bring my newly under saddle horse home because there was no place to keep him. The fences at the new place were a leaning barbwire joke held together with baling twine. Almost every day cattle got loose on the road.

My cowboy rancher husband never had a lesson either. I had known him for almost 40 years before I married him. He learned from training videos that started to come out years ago. He would get a new video and would call me up to come watch it with him. You can read books written by greats such as Ray hunt, but if you can actually see how it is done it is so much better. He did buy some horses that were better trained than he was and he learned from them. One of his non English speaking Mexican ranch hands surprised him one day out working cattle because he had taught the horse to bow. He also bought horses from lying little old ladies who assured him that her 11 year old grand daughter can ride him 

Mostly what I saw since I have known him is that he would raise colts and fillies from when they were just a gleam in the stallion's eye. He would grow them up and start them and train them. One day we were out riding he said it takes years to train a horse like this ( a horse of his that stepped around under him like the other half of a centaur).
That horse lived to be 32. When the old horse was found out in the woods, down and could not get up anymore and would not even try, he had to shoot him. I waited until I had gone so I would not see him cry.

My husband was skeptical about how much training my horse has had. Although after riding him in the arena I found Arago does know some things such as a canter depart. My husband said it is kind of normal for a green horse to become untrained on it's first trail rides, especially riding in company.

Oh well, it is what it is. Already he has been buying me training videos. Here is this 3 disc set Leg Yielding- riding with your legs by Cris Cox.


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

My second to last lesson is tomorrow at noon.  YAY!


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

This is what happened today. I got there 1/2 an hour early. The trainer was giving another lesson. I went out to get my horse from the gelding pasture. He was not there, he was in his stall. I noticed he was hyper and demandingly searching me for carrots. I have never seen him like this. I gave no carrots and took him and saddled him. The trainer came and said has he been outside? I said no, I found him in his stall. She put up his reins in in cheek strap and said to lead him into the arena and run him around.

Well, he had not been turned out and it was past noon. It was a cool windy day. Sure, he was fresh as a loaf of freshly baked bread. I have ridden him like that before when I first started my lessons 9 months ago. So, in the dressage arena I took a longe whip and trotted and cantered him for 5 to 10 minutes. Then the trainer came and said mount and walk him along the rail. That side of the barn is the back side of horse stalls walled up with no windows or doors. Almost every time a horse will be rolling and kick the wall or some kind of activity that spooks my horse. He is a young Saddlbred after all. I have gotten used to riding out these sideways spooks. Well, this time he spooked out of control all the way to the center of the arena. So She yelled do not let him go sideways like that. Do not pull him around like that. Kick him and make him go forward. We stopped and had a long talk about this. She says by making him move his feet forward you can control this sideways movement and dancing around. I did this and it is true.

But one other thing I figured out- I have been constantly pulling his head toward that rail because he wants to avoid these scary things over there. I have not been releasing him for his tries to go that way, Another thing- he does not halt briskly today, he takes extra steps. So I halt him, praise, then back him up a few steps. Since she was working two other horses during this lesson I did these things on my own without being noticed.

Just riding him around was a joy. She had me half halt to slow him down and praise and leave off when he was the right speed. She was telling me that I do not have the muscle memory yet to ride him through his spooks and his signals he has been taught. It is true one lesson a week is not for much for muscle memory in my opinion. But she only has time for one lesson a week. It is a 3 hour drive to get there and a 3 hour drive home.

I think that my husband can watch me and instruct me, and that I can find a teacher that is not so far away. My time I have paid for is up next week.

On the other hand, this week my huspand's 82 year old brother in Texas passed away. April 28th is his funeral and my husband will go there from Oregon. I have to stay and take care of the livestock. Maybe it would be better to take 2 more weeks of lessons before bringing the horse home. One the other hand, what muscle memory can be gained by two more lessons?


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## Part-Boarder (Aug 17, 2019)

It’s hard to let go, but when the lessons you’ve paid for are over, it’s time to go. You have persevered and made the best of it, but definitely do not extend.


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

Judging from what you have written about your husband's skills, you don't need this trainer. Riding more often and having your husband's help will very probably advance you much faster. If you have the time during the day, you could probably work with him twice a day (groundwork), and then riding another session after that. Three shorter sessions every day may be good for both of you.


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

I should have added, while your husband is gone, just do groundwork, no riding. Your horse will have to adjust to new surroundings anyway. When I changed barns, I didn't ride for 4 weeks because it took that long for my mare to feel relaxed in the new environment and I didn't want to risk a wreck. It woudl be a great time for you and your horse to really get to know and trust each other.


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

Agree with all of the above, thank you. 

I was going to start a thread about how long does it take for a horse to adjust to a new place. I have been blessed to be able to bring all my horses at home. Actually I never noticed that they were stressed by moving to a new place although they were stoic types (except the Saddlebreds). But never one so nervous and silly as this one. He really has a Woody Allen type personality. I mean, he is on U Guard powder so his ulcers don't come back


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

Horseloving- woman Thank you for this

"
I am not a trainer, and no way a instructor either. I am a rider, decent but far from great...
That if you are lucky is what has had your horse to train....
Any good rider with solid basics should be able to evaluate your horse and what has been taught and what was not in about an hours ride...then you go forward to fix, fill in or truly educate the animal, then both of you to learn together.
180 rides your horse should know and been introduced, but far from "made"...the foundation though should firmly be in place or the holes will be glaring to a real rider of decent ability. Truth.
You needed basic education put in place, not fancy if you are wanting a safe trail horse as you said elsewhere I remember. This horse needs to understand w/t/c, turns, stop...how to navigate uneven surfaces, think and be nonreactive if it gets the hooves caught in something...how to cross water safely, how to protect you, go over or around trees, open gates, close gates...ride in company or alone...how to load on a trailer of any design and stay put till told to get off.
It needs exposure to all the things we take for granted of garbage roadside blowing, smoke from a fire and not to panic but listen to you to get away from danger.
This animal needs life skills not the skills of a show horse but a working horse who will ride trails...basics that then as you ride together, learn to trust each other you expand and progress together in your expertise..."
...........................................
There is a woman who owns and runs a stable in this county that also gives lessons. She wears western type clothing and cowboy hats although she has an English accent. When I first bought my horse she and I discussed boarding my horse there while we fixed our place with safe fences and a barn. But she required new horses to be quarantined alone in a separate small barn for a month. My sensitive high anxiety horse would have been so stressed out he would have lost weight and gotten ulcers again. I could not have stalled my Dinky pony stallion next to him either, there was only one box stall. So.... I left my horse at the distant barn where he was already settled in. Anyway, I think that this Englishwoman could be the one to ride him for an hour and find the (many) holes in his training. As she is a western, trail riding type of person she knows what a safe trail horse is and needs to be.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

MeditativeRider said:


> I think its great you went back and with such an open mind to things. I am the same as you and think we can always have something to learn from everyone.
> 
> The different colored gloves is a genius idea. I also don't know my left from right. Well obviously I know them but if you say go left to me when I am riding (or use your left leg), I cannot make those brain connections. My coach does a lot of "go this way" and walking things out to show me. Really I should have been able to think of something like putting a colored sticker on each glove that I can see. At my daughter's ballet, for the kids that can't do left and right, the teacher sticks a red hair scrunchy on their right leg.


I'm the same. I do better with inside/outside. I know my right from my left, but I have to think about it. Every. single. time. And I am 50. It isn't instantaneous for me, anymore than reading a clock. I can do it, but it's not instant. Not sure what that means.


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

I didn't say all horses have difficulty adjusting to a new place. I said mine did. And possibly yours will. If not, then good.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

And to the OP, for what it's worth, I'm with @horselovinguy on this one. I'm glad you had a heart-to-heart with your coach. I know someone with a similar personality as what you describe. The person I know really does have a good heart. I still work with her on things we mutually support (I have gotten very involved in my regional equestrian association and so is she, so we work together on some projects). But my daughter and I no longer take lessons from her. Sure, she means well. She just can't control her temper/outbursts/bad communication. It is abuse, no matter how you frame it. We have walked away from that with no intention to ever return. Was she a good coach? Heck yes, if your only goal is to progress. To a certain extent, but then it seems to plateau when her limit of knowledge is reached. Do I think she is a great rider? YES! Does she take great care of all her animals? Heck YES! But she is a bad communicator and destroys the self-confidence of many of her students. No thanks. Not worth it. 

I don't know for a fact that this is your case. I hear your survivor spirit, you are clearly a very strong person. But I'm not at all convinced that this coach is all she wants people to believe she is either.


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

About him spooking to the center of the arena and being told to drive him forward to control him-- I told my husband about this and he said What has she taught about controlling his hind quarters? And being corrected for pulling him back to the rail on the inside rein. He asked Is driving him some kind of dressage teaching? The real world trail riding thing to do is a one rein stop because you are not in an arena. in the real world you can get hurt. Thats what he said.

I said I guessed going forward was a way of controlling the hind quarters. Then there is the real spook and there is the I don't feel like obeying your aid extended spook. She seemed to think he was spooking like that on purpose to get out of work and the cure for that is move their feet. This is all so confusing.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

AragoASB said:


> About him spooking to the center of the arena and being told to drive him forward to control him-- I told my husband about this and he said What has she taught about controlling his hind quarters? And being corrected for pulling him back to the rail on the inside rein. He asked Is driving him some kind of dressage teaching? The real world trail riding thing to do is a one rein stop because you are not in an arena. in the real world you can get hurt. Thats what he said.


There was a discussion on a thread a while back about this. I don't remember what thread it was, but someone's horse was spooking in a particular corner of the arena and she was wondering what to do about it. Her trainer was telling her to sort of ride through the bolt (I don't remember the details). And I was like, why would you do that........I don't want a horse to think bolting is okay. The answer seemed to be that dressage people always want forward. They never want to discourage the "forward." But I didn't really get it either. I want to rapidly gain control of the horse. Then start again when I am back in control. But hey, I'm just a lowly trail rider!

Edit: Okay, I remembered the circumstances a bit wrong, (I actually agreed with the trainer) but here is the thread I was talking about: 








Should I listen to my trainer or do this my own way?


Recently, Onyx has been horrified of the side of the arena near A, for no particular reason. A motorcycle without a muffler can go zooming by him while he's down near C and he won't react at all, but any slight noise when he's down by A makes him lunge forward and break into a really fast trot...




www.horseforum.com


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

"..I don't want a horse to think bolting is okay. " But bolting horses are not in their thinking mind. They are in their reactive mind aren't they?.

In the thread you linked to, I don't think the horse was really in their reactive mind if they persistently dreaded the spot and bolting from that same area. Or else, the 'training for bolting from the area had made him develop a 'thing' and conditioned a response about it.

" All I did before was I leaned back and circled him until he stopped running, and then brought him straight back to the scary thing until he calmed down. "

My trainer never wants me to go right back to the scary place. Just regain control and keep riding, get him responding to cues and getting praised, don't freak out because we are coming back to the scary place. Just work him as if nothing happened and after a couple of passes by the place and circles of the arena he has forgotten about it. It seems to work. This is young horse training she says. For purposeful bolters I guess maybe the method would be different.


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

Woo Hoo  Today I loaded Arago and brought him home. He seems to like his new barn and the Dinky horse friend across the isle. 34" tall Dinky has been alone for 8 months. He put on quite a little stallion display.


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## Part-Boarder (Aug 17, 2019)

Congratulations!!! So happy for you both. Maybe you need to start a new thread now that the whole saga of leaving those horrible lessons is over!


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

Quite the journey, this thread! I'm glad you figured out a way to communicate with your trainer. Sometimes that's really the best thing you can do; stop your horse, clear up with your trainer what you don't understand, and then try again. Great that your guy is coming now!




AragoASB said:


> About him spooking to the center of the arena and being told to drive him forward to control him-- I told my husband about this and he said What has she taught about controlling his hind quarters? And being corrected for pulling him back to the rail on the inside rein. He asked Is driving him some kind of dressage teaching? The real world trail riding thing to do is a one rein stop because you are not in an arena. in the real world you can get hurt. Thats what he said.
> 
> I said I guessed going forward was a way of controlling the hind quarters. Then there is the real spook and there is the I don't feel like obeying your aid extended spook. She seemed to think he was spooking like that on purpose to get out of work and the cure for that is move their feet. This is all so confusing.


The forward is more a way of giving your horse something to think about, while giving them an opportunity to release that anxiety. It depends on the situation of course, but sometimes you don't want to stop your horse (or you even can't!) cuz it could make his stress more, so instead you encourage him to do something specific, for one, and at the same time something that relaxes his mind (move forward fast). You keep his feet engaged, you keep his mind engaged. Confident forward movement is always good. On the other hand even if it's a "get out of work" spook, ignoring it and pushing him forward to show him that it doesn't change anything is still a good option.


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

One thing about it- after the horse was loaded I asked how much did I owe her for those three lessons and she said nothing.

He is a big long tall Saddlebred horse and my 6'8" stock/trailer the trainer thought was too small for him. I had left my trailer there for months so she could school him on loading. She said she never did school him unless a truck (my truck) was left there for hooked up to it because unsecured trailers can move when horses load. True I guess. But anyway, I told her she could use my bumper pull 2 horse trailer when her gooseneck truck was in the shop. She used it to take 2 horses to the vet and also got numerous loads of hay with it. Meanwhile I looked for a used larger trailer but they cost as much as my new barn right now.

You may have read about the trailer loading problems and methods she used to load my horse for trail rides. The first time I saw her load him by yelling and jerking. She did succeed after he had flipped over backwards.

Apparently there are 2 kinds of loading problems. One is the horse that has never or seldom loaded and is afraid. Horse Trailers: Loading The Nervous Horse This requires a different method than the horse that has loaded may times and has decided not to load this day. Horse Trailers: Loading The Stubborn Horse My horse was a show horse loaded many times and was also hauled across the United States when he was sold. So I was expecting a fight when we went to pick him up. Nope, he got right in just with her leading and me behind holding a longe whip. My husband later said she must have been working with him. So that was good.

I drove the 160 miles home like I was hauling a load of eggs. Especially the roller coaster-like mountain roads of the coast range. He had loaded himself facing backwards. This is a horse/stock trailer with open areas with bars all the way around above the solid section. My cowboy husband followed. He said the horse rode well.

Today was his first day here. He seems to like his new home. I only let him graze for an hour and kept the very excited Dinky stallion separated by a fence.


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

"The forward is more a way of giving your horse something to think about, while giving them an opportunity to release that anxiety. It depends on the situation of course, but sometimes you don't want to stop your horse (or you even can't!) cuz it could make his stress more, so instead you encourage him to do something specific, for one, and at the same time something that relaxes his mind (move forward fast). You keep his feet engaged, you keep his mind engaged. Confident forward movement is always good. On the other hand even if it's a "get out of work" spook, ignoring it and pushing him forward to show him that it doesn't change anything is still a good option."

I am open to this. It was what she was explaining in a not great way. She said he is young, this is how to do it. And it did seem to work. After a few more rounds the area rail he forgot about the scary area.

This was a training arena situation. On the other hand in a fall off a cliff or rub off on a low branch situation of course you have to take hold.


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

AragoASB said:


> "The forward is more a way of giving your horse something to think about, while giving them an opportunity to release that anxiety. It depends on the situation of course, but sometimes you don't want to stop your horse (or you even can't!) cuz it could make his stress more, so instead you encourage him to do something specific, for one, and at the same time something that relaxes his mind (move forward fast). You keep his feet engaged, you keep his mind engaged. Confident forward movement is always good. On the other hand even if it's a "get out of work" spook, ignoring it and pushing him forward to show him that it doesn't change anything is still a good option."
> 
> I am open to this. It was what she was explaining in a not great way. She said he is young, this is how to do it. And it did seem to work. After a few more rounds the area rail he forgot about the scary area.
> 
> This was a training arena situation. On the other hand in a fall off a cliff or rub off on a low branch situation of course you have to take hold.


Yes for sure. This is how I personally look at it; i don't know if everyone does, and it could be that she has a feel for what helps a horse spooking like that without really understanding or thinking about the reasoning behind it - just that it helps.


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

Ack! Trainer drama continues.
When I went to my final lesson 2 weeks ago my comfy Collegiate Memory Foam dressage girth was not on my saddle rack where I always keep it. She was in a hurry and so said here use this one. I then texted her a couple of times about the missing girth and she said she had used it to ride Arago and it is around here somewhere. Later I texted she said she found it and it would be with my stuff. So, several days later my husband and I showed up to finally bring my horse home and she was in a hurry and had to go someplace. She was annoyed that it took me so long to get there (a 3 hour drive one way). So I went and grabbed everything, my saddle, pads, breast collar, bridle, halter and helmet off the rack and tossed it in the trailer tack room.

A couple of days later I went to unload my tack and discovered his girth was not in there. It had not been with my stuff like she said. I texted about this and she said "I'm sorry you left it" and I could come get it. I asked her to please mail it to me because the gas to drive there and back cost more than the girth. Not only that, all of those girths in his size were sold out on the internet. She said she did not have time to mail the girth. I said I had just been to a post office that morning to mail a used cribbing collar to someone and it only took 5 minutes. Nope, she said she did not have time to mail the girth but said she could mail it in a few weeks. I would like to be able to actually ride my horse and not just have him be a lawn ornament for the next few weeks.

Let me backtrack and tell about the grooming tool fisaco. I had all my brushes and grooming tools in a carry tote that I kept there below his saddle rack. I came for a lesson one day and every brush except one was gone from the box. There was not even a hoof pick. I said Look, all my brushes seemed to gave grown legs. She said Well, if you leave them out like that people are going to take them to use and not put back, such as the bunch of kids she gives lessons too. So I bought a whole lot of more expensive brushes and tools and a locking tool box that said Arago on it. My husband, knowing about this and hearing about the missing girth said That stable is totally chaotic. Stuff is piled all over everywhere so it figures. He advised to just wait a few days and see if she mails it.

Fortunately, the next day I got a message from Tractor Supply that the 8 stall mats I had ordered 3 months ago had finally arrived. The whole state has been out of stall mats because of the fires last year. The TSC is in a town about half an hour from the training barn. So since I was going up there anyway I drove over to get the girth. When I got to the barn someone rummaged around and handed me my girth. It was dirty and sweaty and covered with short grey hairs of a horse that had been body clipped. The trainers dressage horse is a grey mare that is body clipped. Not mad, just laughed and glad to drive away from all this.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

Now, we can't wait to read about your successes as you enjoy your horse with your husband!


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

Arago follows my husband around. Right away he said you better stop hand feeding that horse treats and start 'accidently' bumping his face away with your elbow whenever he puts his nose on you. . My husband says he is not being friendly, he is a horse and is trying to see if he can dominate you. Next thing will be a bite, its just what horses do. At the training barn over the 8 months he was there he did bite two people leading him in from the turnout. So I did that and within 2 days he is standing respectfully not putting his nose on me.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

No, I would get my money's worth. I AM paying for instruction, instruct me, otherwise I was my cash back


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

So you are saying you *would* quit in the middle of a lesson plus want your money back?


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