# What makes a kid safe horse?



## Natura Dragoste (Mar 14, 2013)

This was suppose to go in 'Horse Talk'. Not sure how I managed to put it here. Mods please move it?


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

i would say a bullet to the head is pretty much it.
No living breathing thinking 1000 lb animal is ever gonna be 100% safe. Some are more docile than others, but they are still 1000 lb animals with a brain of their own, and if they get a notion they are gonna do something, not really a whole lot you can do to stop it. 
People wanna bicker of what is kid safe and what isnt but then you see the kids running all around the horse with flip flops on and riding with no helmets.


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## dazey (Nov 29, 2011)

Your reservations about selling this horse as kid safe are in my opinion valid. It's obvious from the info you have about it that whatever training it had was based on fear and punishment, which rules out its being at all trustworthy. It's true there's no such thing as a truly "bombproof" horse, but sometimes an older horse that's been through the experiences you described with a credible behavior history can function as a "kid safe" horse with proper supervision and observation of safety measures, ie: rider w/helmet and basic lessons in how to act around a horse. Good luck in trying to prevent an unsafe situation for a child with this horse.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

While, for the most part, I would agree with you that a horse with a "troubled" past should never be considered a kid horse....I actually lived the exact opposite. The horse that I grew up on had hurt a couple of cowboys very badly and was being shipped directly to the killer by his owner when my Dad picked him off the truck (against the owner's recommendation).

A few years later, after some serious training done by my Dad, he sort of stumbled into becoming a kid horse (long story). But, I believe the thing that made him an outlaw was the exact same thing that made him a great kid horse. That horse is the only one I've ever met that simply wasn't scared of anything.

All that being said, a problem horse can't be "cured" in just a few months, if they ever are. It takes a very unusual horse to go from having issues to being kid safe, and it takes a very talented and experienced trainer to get the work done and make that decision as to whether the horse is ready or not.

The biggest problem I see? People greatly underestimate what a good kid horse _should_ be. They believe that a kid horse doesn't need to be well-trained, just good natured. While a good natured horse is a big plus, if they don't have the training to allow the child to ride properly and easily (without pulling and yanking and constantly kicking to get them to do anything), then they shouldn't be a kid horse at all.

Edited to add:

This is my idea of a perfect type of kid horse. Notice that the horse is responsive to whatever the kid asks without being too reactive. While I don't believe that every child/beginner needs to have a horse trained to the world champion level, they should be supple and responsive and do exactly what they're told without too much effort on the rider's part.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Nobody knows the exact situation, and there are always two sides to every story. Example: before I purchased my horse, I was told he attacked other horses in the arena / bucked / kicked / was crazy. Test rode him and he was a perfect angel, have had him for over a year and never ONCE has he made any indication he would do any of the above. Good thing I didn't listen to someone I don't know. I know los of horses that through their training history have been full of bucks and spooks, but as they got more training calmed down considerably and are horses I would consider 'kid safe'. You say she 'claims' the horse has been fixed... well how do you know it hasn't been? While I agree horses with extreme problem pasts don't make the best kid horses, we don't know enough from reliable sources to tell you if it is / isn't.


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

Ill be back with my stories..don't have enough battery on my phone right now, lol.

I'll say it has to do with a rearer, a kicker, and an ottb.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

My gelding is considered kids safe but I'd never market him that way if I sold him. My 4 year old son can ride him, lead him, pick his feet, and load him in a trailer. He is spook proof, has been shot off of, used to drag things, ponied other horses, been extensively trail ridden and shown with no issues. However he can get pretty hot in speed courses and he gets worked up of other horses take off and leave him behind. He will remain behind but he's just begging you to ask him to go. Is he kids safe, yes under most conditions but kids don't always put themselves in just safe situations so ALL situations need I be considered. So no I don't think the horse in question is kid safe n
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

Alrighty..now, it all depends on who you're selling to and what the horse will be doing, in my opinion.

Let's start with Dude. Dude had a horrible rearing problem and I was the one that got stuck working with him (BO wanted to turn me away from horses without actually saying/doing it herself). But, Dude was/is a beautiful PMU foal that matured to a 16.2hh Flaxen Chestnut with Sabino, clydeXpaint gelding.
Dude reared as soon as something past walking forward was asked of him..You wanted to stop? He stopped and went straight up. You wanted to turn? Straight up he went. Wanted a sidepass? Straight up again. Wanted hin to go downhill or across mud/water? Still, he went straight up. Wanted to back up and he just about flipped himself over.
After about 3-4 months of me working with him and gaining his respect/trust and I'd have thrown a kid up on him for a trail ride, leading or following. He neck reined, never reared not once after the first 2 months, never spooked, etc. If someone wanted to buy him as a trail horse for their child, I'd have said he was a perfect candidate. If someone wanted to buy him as a show/gaming horse I probably would've laughed. He could show pleasure and trail, but he wasn't built to jump soundly, he was much too excited for games (he LOVED*it), but he could take both a pleasure and a trail class easily if the child learned his cues.

Lucky..well, she was the kicker. When I was still leasing her, I'd have her pegged as a perfect next step from the 4h pony. After 5 rides on her, she's never kicked (aside from her old owner..but she was ridiculously stupid, a 2yr old knows better than her). She only kicked at other horses/dogs/trees, never a person (I could jump up and down behind her). I'd be ease-minded to toss a kid on her and send her out on a trail leading or bringing up the rear, maybe in the middle. I'd toss a kid who knew how to ride and throw her in an arena to run barrels. She runs automatic, takes her pockets, and needs a bit of encouragement on the run home. When I first started riding her, I had to tell the gate keepers to keep the gate open and stand behind it when we went in/out. After one show we had no more problems with that, amd neither has anyone else. If you can show her that you're boss, she'd do anything she would for a kid that she would for me. Showing her you're boss wasn't hard either. If you whacked her when she tried to bite the first time (her first step of "testing", she never did it again and listened just as well. She could probably use a once a year tune up on being responsive and supple, she'd have been a great horse as a "next step" from the pony.

Alahna..I'd probably sell as a kids trail horse right now, even with only having her for 2 weeks with minimal training done. She will walk wherever you point her on the trail, never spooked, etc. If she gets loose (my fault lol), she'll meander back to the barn and stand at the gate. I mean, personally, I'd never sell her until I finished her in something and put beginners/kids on her at a show to show that she's kid safe..but I could advertise her as such and mean it, as a trail horse anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Natura Dragoste (Mar 14, 2013)

Nice to hear everyone's stories, and opinions. 
Smrobs, that video is awesome. That kid and his horse are amazing. I wish I was that good.
Pocco1220, we have every similar opinions. Your horse sounds lovely, and you seem very responsible.
Iseul, sounds like after some though work you really turned that boy around. I know other people who have had stories like that. While it's rare, I enjoy hearing about horses who have made a complete 180.



alexischristina said:


> Nobody knows the exact situation, and there are always two sides to every story. Example: before I purchased my horse, I was told he attacked other horses in the arena / bucked / kicked / was crazy. Test rode him and he was a perfect angel, have had him for over a year and never ONCE has he made any indication he would do any of the above. Good thing I didn't listen to someone I don't know. I know los of horses that through their training history have been full of bucks and spooks, but as they got more training calmed down considerably and are horses I would consider 'kid safe'. You say she 'claims' the horse has been fixed... well how do you know it hasn't been? While I agree horses with extreme problem pasts don't make the best kid horses, we don't know enough from reliable sources to tell you if it is / isn't.


In the OP I just glanced over what this horse & her new ''trainer'' have done. I kept it short to get to the point, and to not bash the ''trainer'' (& I use that term loosely..). I just wanted opinions about, " What is a kid horse?" Can a problem horse become a good kid horse? Get different opinions. But please understand, this horse & the girl are dangerous. Although I do respect that you are taking this on a forum with a grain a salt.

This girl has a tendency to lie. I think she may have a disorder that causes compulsive lying. She tells people she has trained with Ian Millar, Eric Lamaze or in Europe. She is 22, and I have known her since grade four. She has gone to Europe once for a highschool trip, and she lives in Western Canada.
Her first horse, she claimed was a sabino TB. And he was reg'd as a TB. She had him listed for sale, with his reg'd name.. He is a reg'd solid paint. Closest TB is 4 generations back. Told people he won 50k in shows, some people did a look up on him. He was shown once, before this girl bought him. 
This horse was given to her because she told the owner she was a trainer, and could work with a problem horse. She work this mare for a year and a half. She's been telling people that she's owned this horse for three years. I know for a fact she met the mare's former owner a year and a half ago. They met AFTER my first horse show. The moment she legally owned the horse, the mare went up for sale for 3k. (One month ago) See where this lying I was talking about?

This horse has bucked, I have seen it. The girl told me, the mare has never bucked. I stated that I saw her kick out with both hind legs at head height at a fun event. She told me, "Oh that's just a thing she does when she canters."
She advertising as an experienced barrel racer. This horse can walk a barrel pattern, but any faster, and she freaks out, gets excited violently tosses her head and bucks.
She is now bashing the former owner. Claiming the horse is calm and sane. When asked about the horse's past, she claims the last owner is a beginner who has not clue what she's doing & the horse spooked once, former owner fell, then tried to ship the horse. None of that is true.
Okay.. This rant needs to stop now. Sorry, for the rant. But I needed to get that out. I could go on for pages.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Kid safe horses? They're the wooden ones with wheels or rockers aren't they??


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

I would consider my mare kid-safe, but ONLY when I'm there. 

In her case, she's mostly blind and she's aware of her blindness so she basically functions like I'm her "guide human". 
She pretty much won't do anything unless I tell her it's ok. She does have a mind of her own but she's a VERY smart girl and I've found that she'll really only take reasonable risks.

Anyway, even though she is really safe and I feel confident letting kids do whatever they want around her in my presence, I would never allow a child to be around her if I wasn't there. I'm constantly communicating with her about her surroundings/giving her feedback on her behavior and that plays a big part in how safe she is. When she's just doing her thing, alone, and only really knows what she's found out about her environment, she can be really dangerous just because she's unaware of what most of her world looks like.

I love that video that smrobs posted, that's exactly what a kid-safe horse should be like. Sensible and reactive enough but not overly reactive. Smart enough to tune in to what's necessary and tune out stuff that's just extra "noise".


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

I would NEVER advertise a horse as "kid safe"...that is just opening yourself up to a liability lawsuit. I have horses that are very excellent and gentle with kids, but if I were to sell one of them, I would not advertise them as kid safe...


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

loosie said:


> Kid safe horses? They're the wooden ones with wheels or rockers aren't they??


I think even those ones have been known to "buck" their rider off, depends how fast the rider decides to go :lol:

No horse is kid safe... they all have their own brains which cease to work at times. Saying this, a horse to be advertised as kid safe should IMO have no buck, rear, bite or spook at silly things. They should have a good set of breaks and be steady and reliable. I would not consider the horse you described to be kid safe,and if I were to put my child up on that horse serious questions would be asked if it behaved in the way you described.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

I worry that many people looking for a kid safe horse may not have the knowledge and/or ability to work through issues if one arrises. Even the most wonderful mellow fellow can have a basic instinct take over in any given situation. I think if a horse has been a reliable mount for beginners one could state that but no horse is totally safe.

Here's another thought: What about having to prove that a kid is horse-safe before selling????


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## faiza425 (Dec 21, 2012)

No horse is completely kid safe. I work with horses that do hippotherapy for special needs kids - they have to deal with unpredictable, often excessively loud, unbalanced kids every single day. Many people would consider them completely kid safe, but every horse has their kryptonite. One of the oldest hippotherapy geldings who has been in the program for years will still completely lose it if something rolls in front of him (think garbage blowing in the wind, soccer ball being kicked).
I would be wary of any ad that promised a completely 'kid-safe' horse. They don't exist, unfortunately.


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## RiverBelle (Dec 11, 2012)

I think being able to call 'kid broke' or 'kid safe' horse all depends on the kid, not the horse.
Has the kid been around horses before? Has the kid ever rode a horse before? Does the kid plan on being able to take care of the horse them selves? Does the kid have the balance on stay on a horse without your having to worry it will fall off.

People go out and buy 'kid broke, kid safe' horses for kids that have never even touched a horse before. I don't care how broke the horse is, a kid should never be allowed around a horse by their selves without knowing about horses first.

My cousin is 6 years old and love love loves horses. She has never really been able to ride a horse before, and wants to come out and ride my Rose. Rose has been rode by kids only, and has no buck, kick, rear, bite, spook, or speed to her what so ever. I trust this horse. (trust is a lot to it too. If you can't trust a horse, can you really trust a horse with your kid?). My cousin in going to come out tomorrow and ride. I plan on having her ride behind me on the saddle for a while, but then I thought I would set her up on Rose in the saddle and walk beside Rose while my cousin 'drove' her where she wants to go. My cousin will have 'control' of the horse and be able to choose where she goes, but if Rose was to act up, I would be standing right there to help get ahold of Rose and let my cousin down.

I think that is the only way a child should be able to ride a horse on their own until they have a VERY knowledgeable grasp of horses, riding, and horse care. It is just safer that way. I mean, a horse can be the gentlest, sweetest, calmest, most broke horse in the world, the greatest kids horse ever made, but if that child wasn't able to hang on and slid off the horse, the horse wouldn't know it and would be liable to step on the child, hurting it and possibly killing the kid. So, safety, when choosing a kid safe horse is always first. 

My two sense. Just ignore me, lol


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Dustbunny said:


> I worry that many people looking for a kid safe horse may not have the knowledge and/or ability .....
> Here's another thought: What about having to prove that a kid is horse-safe before selling????


Yes definitely! I always do this - kids, adults... I want to know they're going to be good for the horses I sell and will always advertise 'to an experienced or well supervised home'. I know to many that's like real estate agents speaking of a 'sloping block':lol:, that it may mean the horse is a terror, but in my case I do this to reduce the likelihood of a potential owner being a terror! I don't buy & sell horses much though - care too much & the first one I bought as an investment, it took me a few months of prospective buyers before I found someone I was happy to let her go to - that was my appaLoosie...:-(


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## Marlea Warlea (Apr 27, 2010)

I have only read the OP and a few comments so my statement may seem out of place.
In answer to the 'a horse isn't kid-safe if it has past problems' or what-not, I don't agree with that and I feel that's labeling all horses unfairly.
Of course that could possibly be true for some horses, but definitely not all, or even most I would be happy to say.
A horse can be retrained, brought back up and learn again.
I can't say a lot about breaking in horses but I've saved a few small ponies from the knackeries, each of them where what most people would call problem horses, the one I own currently, 'Flicka,' i bought around 6 months ago from the local sale yards, no one else wanted her as she was nuts, the only other bidder was the knacker.
I eventually convinced my mum that I could handle her, and she paid the small price of $90 for her, instantly regretting it as it took as a solid three hours to get her on the float. She's only very little so she wasn't hard to handle, but she was continuously flipping herself backwords and kicked a guy several times.
We brought her home and the same thing happened, she was what my dad called a 'ferral.'
Now she's the sweetest pony you could ever meet, you can chuck a tarp over her, she'll follow you around the paddock and she's a massive smooch. She's still only a baby, so I can understand how this case is different.
Although another one is my old riding school used to buy ponies from the sale yard, one of which was again a 'ferral,' he would buck everyone who attempted to ride him and not many people had the guts to ride him, after a year of working with him, he's now the riding schools learning pony and the sweetest little fella you'll ever meet, he was 14 years old when he was retrained.

I'm only 15 so my stories and cases may be irrelivant and I may see too much good in every horse, which isn't all a bad thing if you ask me, but i believe a horse can be retrained to be a some-what 'child safe horse' or as child safe as a horse can be.
But then again, horses are like people in which they all have different personalities and some horses are naturally wonderful childrens mounts, others aren't.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

If this gal makes issue with the seller, if she's not buying, she's concerning herself with something that isn't hers to be concerned about. ie not minding her own business. My arab arrived with baggage, a huge issue with adults, kicked, bolted, you name it. With kids he was a completely different horse.


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

Faceman said:


> I would NEVER advertise a horse as "kid safe"...that is just opening yourself up to a liability lawsuit. I have horses that are very excellent and gentle with kids, but if I were to sell one of them, I would not advertise them as kid safe...


I agree 100%. I would never advertise one as kid safe or "bombproof" - despise that term, gets too many beginners/novices/first time owners in trouble by creating a false sense of security and opens sellers up to big liability issues. 

As far as what I look for and expect, I'm after a horse much like smrobs described. Well trained is always number one on my list of requirements, both on the ground and under saddle. Next is disposition and having some brains between their ears, a horse that can tolerate beginner mistakes and be confident in situations that a young/little rider may not be. A horse that needs an active leader to rely on in a potentially unnerving/new/horse eating plastic bag type of situation is not the one you want to toss a rookie kid on. Age is the next criteria though I have met and owned plenty of steady young horses that most would call 'kid safe' in controlled environments. Never would I buy a horse that only had a few years of training/riding time and with young horses that is what you get. I look for one that's had enough years under it's belt that it's had thousands of miles put on it, years of practical experience, been exposed to a lot of different situations and has seen the world a bit. That being said, being a senior aged horse doesn't necessarily make one a kids horse either. I've met and know horses into their late 20s that I'd never even consider putting a kid on. My 20 year old Hano mare is a prime example of that, she's a fantastic horse, very well trained but spent her life as an 'arena diva' and if you take her out of her comfort zone she is a lot of horse to handle. She's the "It's a stick, freak out" horse and needs an extremely confident rider to make up for her large lack of. She's getting better about it but no way would I let any child take her out of the arena. 

Also agree with the point made about the particular child the horse is intended for. What I would look at for my daughter is much different than what I would look at for a new to horses family type horse. My daughter is only 7 but has been riding since she could walk and has a firm grasp of what buttons make a horse do what - ie: sidepass, spin, how to ride a spur trained horse, etc and has put it to practical use on a dozen different horses. Just got her a new mare last weekend, 17 yo QH mare that's been shown successfully in many disciplines from WP to reining to being a 19/20 second pole horse. She was not advertised as kid safe/broke because she isn't what most would think of when they hear that. She's not the old plug that will pack a kid around all day, she is sane & solid but still requires a rider not just a passenger. She did test my daughter on their first ride, (she wanted to gawk and see what was going on in the pastures instead of doing her atm job in the arena) with M being an assertive kid rider she got after her once and EZ went to work. Another child that would be afraid to get after her butt about misbehaving wouldn't have gotten anywhere with her.

For the very new beginner/kid/family type horse, I'd be after one like my old sorrel mare. She's the epitome of babysitter. She is one that only does what she thinks the kid on her is capable of. She is great to start them on. M started on her and was frustrated for awhile because Jana absolutely refused to lope for her. Her seat, legs, hands developed and once that happened the old lady didn't hesitate to give her what she asked for. That being said I still wouldn't advertise her as kid safe, even though it's been about 23 years since she bucked or did something stupid under saddle. :wink:


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## LisaG (Nov 11, 2012)

While I agree that no horse is 100% "kid safe" or "bombproof," I think it's reasonable to expect that a horse that is sold as kid safe would be steady, not have any dangerous vices, and be tolerant of some shenanigans that kids would pull. 

Yes, the kids need to be taught how to handle horses properly, but they're going to make mistakes. They need a calm, experienced (and probably older) horse that isn't going to take advantage of their inexperience, and isn't likely to freak out.

This is a tall order, and there are fewer and fewer of these horses around. When I think of my first pony, I'm sure she'd be worth her weight in gold now. She wasn't fancy, but that little Shetland packed me everywhere and never thought about bucking me off (though any adult silly enough to try to ride her immediately ended up in the dirt). She didn't kick, bolt, rear, spook, or anything else, and I'm grateful to have had such a patient little horse to teach me how to ride. 

Personally, I don't think a horse that was bucking just a few months ago can be sold as kid safe. I bet they're not revealing that horse's history to the buyers. Concealing that kind of past behaviour in a kid's horse is not only irresponsible, but morally reprehensible. We all know that it's buyer beware when it comes to horses, but it really bothers me that someone would try to sell a horse like that to a child. 

I agree that sellers selling "kid safe" horses should prove that horse is kid safe. If I was looking at a kid's horse and I didn't know the sellers, I would ask the sellers to demonstrate that a child could ride the horse in the situations they've outlined. If they balk, something is hinky, I think.


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## faiza425 (Dec 21, 2012)

Definitely "horse safe" your kids before buying a supposed "kid safe" horse. Even setting up the sweetest, patient, most forgiving horse with the quietest, most conscientious child can go wrong if that child doesn't know anything about horses. It's not like buying a dog for your kids - horses are and always will be partially unpredictable and revert to instinct in certain situations. (Not to say that dogs won't, but it's less likely)
To the OP, if someone is trying to market a horse that had a bucking problem a few months ago as a 'kid safe' horse, you have every right to try to keep that horse from being sold to unsuspecting owners, especially for a child. No horse can be completely 'fixed' in as short a time frame as that.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

faiza425 said:


> It's not like buying a dog for your kids - horses are and always will be partially unpredictable and revert to instinct in certain situations. (Not to say that dogs won't, but it's less likely)


Agree with your post except this bit - dogs are smaller so therefore (generally) do far less damage, but I think that dogs & horses are both quite predictable animals - you can virtually rely on them 100% to behave like dogs or horses - and they're both potentially dangerous(& in danger, after they've 'aggressed') when paired with people who have no idea how to treat - or read/understand them. Just look at the dog bite stats... & how many are from 'kid friendly' labradors & such?? Don't blame the horse, or the dog... or the kid for that matter, but...


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