# Ughhh, I can't stop flapping like a bird!!



## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Hmm...does she seem lazy to you? It seems like you're trying to 'pump' with your upper body to push her forward and stay in a canter. Instead of pumping with your body, you should just put your leg on her.


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## Hidalgo13 (Dec 24, 2010)

Hmmm, now that I think of it... that too. She likes to suddenly stop cantering and burst into a very fast trot if I don't really encourage her with my seat. But I will try just giving her more leg like you say instead.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Try just sitting deep and closing your leg on her to urge her forward. Carry a crop, often that's enough and you don't even need to use it. 
I only watched a short segment of the video, but I think that's what's happening with your upper body. It's a really common mistake, but fixable!


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

_I was taught that your arms should move a bit with the horse as long as you are not pumping. But that would mean that your body stays still, and only from about your elbows to your hands are moving...and its more of an up and down motion as your horse goes up and down with his stride._

_Have to agree with spastic that it looks like you are pumping your body to keep her going. Second the carrying a crop. Ask with the leg, then tell with the crop if you got no response from asking with the leg. Don't "nag" at her, but make her listen. Really good excercise to start practising at the walk first, then the trot, then the canter._

_I think part of it is that the mare is strung out a bit and heavy on her forehand. If you collected her up a bit, sat up tall, and take a bit more in your hand and leg, you could keep her going without having to pump the same way. Its like shes pulling herself along with her front end, instead of pushing with her backend._


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Yeah, she's got you working harder than her. Upper body still, more leg, crop to re-enforce leg. Always go back and ask again with quieter aids if you have resort to crop to get her in front of your leg.


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## Hidalgo13 (Dec 24, 2010)

> _ If you collected her up a bit, sat up tall, and take a bit more in your hand and leg, you could keep her going without having to pump the same way. Its like shes pulling herself along with her front end, instead of pushing with her backend._
> ​


I noticed that, and I already thought that she would be so much nicer at a more collected canter, but how do you collect??? 



> Upper body still, more leg, crop to re-enforce leg. Always go back and ask again with quieter aids if you have resort to crop to get her in front of your leg.
> ​


Ya I had a crop in the beginning but she was doing well and I wanted to try to get her to canter by just asking with my leg. She did that beautifully but I will keep it in the future so I can use it to keep her going more. I already squeeze her with my legs to keep her going at the canter and I can feel she accelerates a little...


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## Hidalgo13 (Dec 24, 2010)

Ok, so I read up on collecting and basically you ask more impulsion by squeezing/encouraging with leg cues, and then you gently do half halts/tug a little to get the head to go up. When the horse gives a little, you release, and then ask for a little more a few strides later until his head has gone up enough. This all right?


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## Katze (Feb 21, 2011)

yup she looks like she needs constant leg to keep her going, I agree with Spastic_Dove, leg first crop after, and don't nag at her TELL her.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

It appears you are following the canter motion with your upper body instead of your hips. You seem tight in your low back.
The elbows popping out to the sides can be fixed by hanging your upper arms straight down & placing your hands on your upper thighs with the fingers pointing towards your knees & your thumbs in the area where the tops of your thighs meet your body. This will also allow you to move your hips more readily as it will be harder to move your shoulders so much.
Of course you'll look kind of dorky (but that's OK) & it's best to do this on a longe line unless your horse will stay in gait & go with minimal guidance. If those won't work for you, you could try it one arm at a time although that may push your non-thigh shoulder forward.
You have a nice seat & legs.


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

You should never ask for collection until you have forward first.......collection is the last thing that is worked on.......forward, straight, supple, collection....I think that is how it goes.??


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## Michelle and Mr B (Mar 12, 2011)

First thing I would say is shorten your reins up a bit and carry your hands a little higher and with the thumbs on top like you are carrying to cups of tea, still with some bend in the elbow.

I agree with others that the horse is very much on the forehand and not making use of any use of any energy that is being created because it is on the forehand and because of your rein length.

If you ride with a quieter upper body, carry a stick, use your leg and have a consistent contact you should get better transitions. If you want to get the horse going forward I would work on short transitions really getting the horse listening to the leg. Don't ask for canter until you get the trot more active, but not rushing, otherwise you will end up doing all the hard work and losing your position.

I think you may be tensing through your seat too from what i can see so you need to relax and like i have already said work on getting more energy from your horse in the walk and trot first. Watch that you don't end up nagging the horse with your leg though, only use enough to get the response you want then back off with the pressure (i don't mean ride with your leg off but don't constantly be asking) otherwise the horse will ignore your leg aids.

Is this a horse you have lessons on or is it your horse?


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## Hollaaaay (Apr 20, 2011)

Shorter reins, hands as if you're holding 2 ice cream cones. To me at the minute it looks as if you're pushing a trolley.
Your legs are nice, just use your calves to scoop the hrose into a canter. She/he seems to be a bit lazy, keep your leg on! It hurts if you arent used to it but after a while it comes naturally to wrap your legs around a horses belly constantly.
I think with shorter reins and more impulsion in the canter you will automatically sit back and stop flapping like a chicken because you've stopped relying on your upper body to pump the horse into a more energetic canter.


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## Shasta1981 (Nov 12, 2010)

Agreed, seems like you've got chicken wings because of the piano hands. Thumbs should be up. I would bet that you are having this issue because you are making a very honest effort to stay relaxed so don't beat yourself up over it. You are a nice rider! I agree with super nova, forward first then collection. She won't collect if she is behind your leg.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Lots of great advice. First , let me say that you are not a BAD rider, by any means. and I see a ton of improvement, also. The mare is not unhappy under you and she will be ok if you ask her for MORE!

to add to the many other great points, when you ride , rather than thinking so much about your arm moving to follow the horse, think of your pelvis come forward, aiming to go "through" your stable, steady hands. Your lower body moves to match the horse, while your hands "frame" this movement.

Also, think of your shoulders and elbows as riding above your hips. Kind of like "ride your own pelvis" as it moves under and through the framwork of your elbows and hands.


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## Hidalgo13 (Dec 24, 2010)

Thanks so much for all of your advice! I just got back from school and am a little tired, but I'm going to print all this out so I can analyze it all a little more.



> First thing I would say is shorten your reins up a bit and carry your hands a little higher and with the thumbs on top like you are carrying to cups of tea, still with some bend in the elbow.


Well usually I do have shorter reins at the canter and my hands are a bit higher, but my trainer had told me to lower them this lesson because I would automatically (for some reason) jab/pull on Coco's mouth when she took off on the canter, making the transition not very pleasant.



> Agreed, seems like you've got chicken wings because of the piano hands. Thumbs should be up.
> ​


However yes I do have piano hands. I am still trying to break that habit. :/ Thanks for reminding me. 



> Don't ask for canter until you get the trot more active, but not rushing, otherwise you will end up doing all the hard work and losing your position.


My trainer always tells me a good trot makes a good canter, but Coco was tired that day(she wouldn't stop yawning when I tacked her and untacked her, lol)



> Your legs are nice, just use your calves to scoop the hrose into a canter. She/he seems to be a bit lazy, keep your leg on! It hurts if you arent used to it but after a while it comes naturally to wrap your legs around a horses belly constantly.


I sometimes do wrap my legs around her belly but I wasn't ever sure if I was supposed to do it constantly. I have my answer now. 

Thanks again for all your comments.


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## Hidalgo13 (Dec 24, 2010)

> Don't ask for canter until you get the trot more active, but not rushing, otherwise you will end up doing all the hard work and losing your position.
> ​


Forgot to add that I have already tried that in the past and it worked, so I will definitely try to always burst her into an energetic trot, ask her nicely to canter, and encourage her with my legs to accelerate by using her hind end.


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## Hidalgo13 (Dec 24, 2010)

Not sure if this link is going to work, but here is a video of Coco at a show 3 years ago. She is going at the speed of light and is using her hind end!!!  Just in case some thought she was a lazy bum all the time, lol. :wink:
I can't wait to be a good enough rider so I can ride her like that! Sometimes I can feel when we canter that she could go faster if I pushed her, but I wasn't always comfortable going too fast... I used to always half halt her. 
Last lesson however I wouldn't have minded her accelerating, but she was being a little more lazier then usual (must have been the horrible rainy weather :?). Ouh I just can't wait for the next lesson! I want to practice that canter of mine! :-| Almost feel like calling my trainer and telling her I want to have a lesson this Saturday. Might just do that.

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## Hidalgo13 (Dec 24, 2010)

Called my trainer and I scheduled another lesson for this week instead of in 2 weeks. ) Can't wait to practice my canter. I just hope it won't rain again. The arena is not connected to the barn, so you have to walk outside for a little bit to get there. Not fun walking in the rain. :/


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## Hidalgo13 (Dec 24, 2010)

> Is this a horse you have lessons on or is it your horse?
> ​


Lesson horse. I wish she was mine though. She's the biggest sweetheart I've ever known.


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## Michelle and Mr B (Mar 12, 2011)

Good luck for you lesson, will you be updating this thread with how you get on and the feedback your instructor has given you?


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## Hidalgo13 (Dec 24, 2010)

Definitely! I do hope I'll remember all your instructions and manage to almost entirely fix my problem. :/ And because I'll have a private lesson she'll be able to concentrate more on me. In group she pin points the simple things like my legs, my hands, etc... In private she comments on every little thing usually. Although some issues she only brings up once I am more experienced, have already fixed other problems, and she believes it is now the time to fix the next one. 

For sure she noticed my flapping arms, but I think she wants to make sure I have a good seat at the canter before moving on to make me look graceful. I feel ready though! I am tired of looking like a dodo bird. :/


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## Michelle and Mr B (Mar 12, 2011)

I'm sure you will do great. Even if you are in a group lesson, I would still ask questions to the instructor too. If you know there is a certain thing you have been working on in your private lessons then ask how they have improved or what else you need to do to improve them.

Enjoy your lesson!


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## fuadteagan (Jun 10, 2010)

Don't bend your elbows so much, extend them. Trust me they won't flap like that. If you bend them they will flap so much.


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## Hidalgo13 (Dec 24, 2010)

Update! Well I sadly don't have any videos because my dad didn't have the camera with him when I was cantering, and when he did have it, it was the end of the lesson and I was only trotting. BUt I think it went well! COco was nicely collected because she was previously worked by another girl, so I felt like I didn't have to move so much and my arms felt still by my side. 
I felt the difference, so thank you all for all your tips!


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