# Do horses with Stifle injuries always "drag" a leg? - Diagnosis obtained



## VLBUltraHot (Oct 26, 2013)

Cinnys Whinny said:


> They said it looked like his hip was doing something weird when this happened. He isn't exactly dragging a leg behind as typical with a stifle injury, however.
> 
> I walked him on the lunge and I could see it now and again, not a drag just a weird step where it looked like the ligaments were quite holding his hip tight, like it was sort of dislocating but going back. I know, I need to try to get video.
> Opinions?



If you get the chance to video it, that would be great! 

When you say he's taking a funny step like his tendons aren't letting his hip go, it's not every step right? If it's not every step then you can rule out fibrotic myopathy.





And it's not severe enough to be a locking stifle?





It could be a lot of things to be honest. He could just be sore in his glutteal muscles or Sacroiliac (SI) joint and unwilling to extend the leg. If he appears to have a "short and stabby" gait, that usually coincides with hock lameness. 

Have you tried a bute trial? That can rule out pain versus mechanical or even mental issues.


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

I know in flex tests dragging indicates stifles, so I would assume dragging outside of flex testing would still indicate stifle. But that could be totally wrong lol


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

Mona does that every once in a while. I'll be riding and I will feel her back hip give a little for one step and then she's fine.
My chiro said it is a stifle injury. I had to stop using her for drill because all the tight turning was aggravating it. She's fine for regular trail riding. I just have to take it easy on her.


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## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

So here's my interpretation. 1. You gave him time off, and 2. He now has an issue with his stifle joint locking.

Some horses can experience a "loosening" of the patellar ligaments when they are out of condition/given time off. It isn't quite upward fixation of the patella (locking stifles) and is a functional lameness (ie. is not painful). You may also notice that when picking up the affected leg, the horse snaps the leg up close to the body and holds it for a moment before leaning on you. If you think that this is what Cinny has: to test, I would do a bute trial. The idea is that bute should NOT affect behavior if the horse is not in pain, and so it helps pinpoint a painful versus functional lameness. In order to do this, "baseline" your horse by examining your horse on a lunge line for a few days and picking out a behavior to monitor (in your case, it might be locking of that joint or stepping short on that leg). Then for 3 days administer bute and examine your horse on a lunge line to see his behavior has changed at all. After the bute trial, lunge again for a few days to see if the behavior is consistent, returns, etc. 

If it turns out that your horse doesn't respond to bute and you think it is a "loose" patellar ligament(s), the best cure is bringing him back to work! Slowly, of course.  FYI I dealt with a very mild form of this issue with my horse (the only symptom was the "snapping" of his leg when I picked it up and a slight shortness on that limb when jogging-- which showed up worst whenever he was given time off!). Hill work, trotting, anything that will fill out the muscle in his hind leg (thereby relieving the looseness of the patellar ligaments).

Just wanted to add--it doesn't make sense to me to give a horse a few weeks off after chiro work. A few days-- of course, and slow bringing back to work, but you need muscles to be strong and hold the changes in place, not loosened from being out of work (and therefore allowing old issues to slip out of place again). Just my two cents!


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

If you think your horse has a stifle injury, you need to phone a vet immediately.
Stifle injuries are very serious and often require nearly permanent confinement and very restricted riding - if the horse becomes ridable again at all. Early treatment is key to a decent prognosis.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

His stifle isn't exactly "locking" and there is no drag. It's not every step, not even every 10 steps but more like every 15-20 minutes. It happens when he steps under himself with his left hind, right when it's directly under his tummy. It will feel like he slipped, but then he's fine as he moves forward when it's directly under his hip. As he continues forward and it becomes farthest behind him, it's normal again. When the "slip" happens the whole muscle on his but sort of pops outward.

I am begining to agree that maybe the vet needs to see it. But knowing my luck we will spend half an hour walking him and trying to get him to do it, and he won't until after the vet has left. I'm going to go down tomorrow and get video and see if it's still happening. If it is I will get video and call out a vet. That way, if he doesn't do it while the vet is there, I will at least have a video of it happening.


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

existentialpony said:


> Just wanted to add--it doesn't make sense to me to give a horse a few weeks off after chiro work. A few days-- of course, and slow bringing back to work, but you need muscles to be strong and hold the changes in place, not loosened from being out of work (and therefore allowing old issues to slip out of place again). Just my two cents!


I didn't really mean to give him a lot of time off but with the holidays, kids out of school, family visiting, etc...I just didn't get down to the barn except to leave a grain check. He does get turned out all day EVERY day with other horses unless the turnout is iced over and they also pick feet for me when they bring him in. He only ever gets locked in a stall all day if we are having an ice storm (they turn out in snow, etc), or if he has an injury which has only happened twice since owning him.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Cinnys Whinny said:


> His stifle isn't exactly "locking" and there is no drag. It's not every step, not even every 10 steps but more like every 15-20 minutes. It happens when he steps under himself with his left hind, right when it's directly under his tummy. It will feel like he slipped, but then he's fine as he moves forward when it's directly under his hip. As he continues forward and it becomes farthest behind him, it's normal again. When the "slip" happens the whole muscle on his but sort of pops outward.
> 
> I am begining to agree that maybe the vet needs to see it. But knowing my luck we will spend half an hour walking him and trying to get him to do it, and he won't until after the vet has left. I'm going to go down tomorrow and get video and see if it's still happening. If it is I will get video and call out a vet. That way, if he doesn't do it while the vet is there, I will at least have a video of it happening.


If it IS a stifle problem - any vet worth their salt will see it. When flexed the horse will be severely lame and any pressure near the area (as you experienced while brushing him) will cause a big pain reaction.
Vet needs to come yesterday. The horse should be seriously confined into a stall or 12x12 pen.
Continuing to lunge and aggravate whatever is happening in there is just going to make it more inflamed and reduce the chances of it EVER healing.


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

Talked to the vet on the phone. He will be out on Thursday afternoon, He just scheduled an emergency C on a mare for tommorrow.


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

Went to put a sign on Cinny's stall so that he doesn't get turned out tomorrow (vets orders) and some bute for overnight. I was told by a fellow boarder that it has been noticed that the now 2 year old that Cinny is turned out (that rears and challenges me when I try to remove Cinny) with has been playing very roughly with him and no matter how many times Cin chases him off of him he just keeps coming back rearing, bucking, and frolicking. This is the same horse that tried to use Cinny as a jump when he tried to roll last fall, and landed on top of him. He is a no manners big baby half draft who's owner never comes to the barn, she just sort of leaves him there with full care and no training. I need to push for a new turnout situation for Cinny.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Cinnys Whinny said:


> I need to push for a new turnout situation for Cinny.


Yes you do!


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

VLBUltraHot It does NOT look like either of those videos, though it looks more like #1 than #2. In both videos the horses seem to have issues while moving their leg from back to front. Cinny doesn't have a problem until he puts weight on to the foot and then it's only once in a while. For the most part he seems perfectly fine and sound, even while riding (which I've stopped since I noticed it' keeps happening, don't worry) just once in a while something funky happens when he puts his weight on it.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Doesn't sound like stifle,but definitely some other joint aggravating. Without seeing hard to say. Intermittent locking patella they will lock up, drag & then pull leg forward with release.It is very noticable:wink:. Have had horses with stifle injury & in acute injury they are lame & short stride on the leg.As injury healed there wasn't the obvious lameness but they still would have continued short stride on that leg have trouble planting leg for stops & turns etc. there was no intermittent slipping steps as you describe:-(.
My mare had issues a several years back,tight over her back end,performance issues{trouble with canter},had trouble pinpointing her issue:-(.Tried several things to no improvement. She had no limping favoring of any one leg,but she did notice this occasional "slipped" or tripping step in her one hind legs.This went on about a year:?. Long story short she did finally come up notably lame in rear pastern. She was treated to that joint,had Chiro & farrier work plus just her physically maturing more she did recover. Has not taken another lame step is, no longer body sore & was able to progress on in her training. She has basically just had maintenance/preventative IM joint treatment for show season.
????I would suspect your horse probably more likely has problem in hock or pastern...


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

After the bute last night he seems better. I walked him around by hand, on the lunge, and loose for about half an hour and didn't see one mis step. Of course it was most likely because I video taped the whole time. He does seem to have hind stiffness in general, especially at the trot. 

This is what he looked like today. He was stiffer circling to the left and didn't really want to pick up a trot in that direction. Normally Cinny will NOT stay at a walk for anything, he is the trot master so his behavior when asking for the trot was very odd for him.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Did you have the vet out? 

My horse had a VERY slight stifle injury, so slight that it was not noticeable 98% of the time in the pasture, although I could feel the offness regularly when riding, but I am very in tune to what feels "right" with him. He was out about 8-10 months on pasture rest with a non-active herdmate and a small area (best I could do as we don't have stalls and I am not allowed to build one) before being sound enough start back up slowly with work. His was slight enough that it was visible with a flex test, but even then nothing extreme. 

If your boy is what you're describing I would not be trotting him around on a lunge or loose until you have a vet out. You could be seriously messing something up.


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> Did you have the vet out?
> 
> 
> 
> If your boy is what you're describing I would not be trotting him around on a lunge or loose until you have a vet out. You could be seriously messing something up.


The vet is coming out tomorrow afternoon.

As far as what I did today, I was following my vets instructions after I spoke with him about what was happening over the phone yesterday. He said to leave him stalled over night last night with a dose of bute. Then observe him at a walk and trot by hand, on the lunge in 15 and then 10 meter circles, and then for a few minutes free today. I was to look for whether or not he behaved normally in each situation including attitude, as well as whether or not he miss stepped at all and to keep notes or to video each and send it in to the office today so that he can compare the videos with what will happen tomorrow with no bute. 

I have chosen to share the worst video here, it shows how stiff his is at the trot on the lunge. However when he is turned free he wasn't as stiff so he either warmed up out of it or he's fine on a straight but stiff with circles.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

That's fine, I wasn't aware that you were following vet's advice, apparently I'm failing at reading comprehension. Just wanted to make sure you knew how long these things can take to heal, I would hate to see an injury aggravated and take even longer. It sucked basically losing a year on my boy and he's "just" a trail horse.


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

Vet came out today and...... it's not the hind! I thought it was his left hind but it's actually his right fore. After a few hours of walking and trotting in hand, on the lunge, nerve blocking and x-rays the diagnosis is a sprained foot! X-rays are 100% clean and the vet actually had some nice things to say about my farrier after seeing them  Nice to know that his bones and joints look nice with no sign of navicular, arthritis or any other issue there.

4 weeks of stall rest with daily walks and then see how he does. So so happy.


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

Wow, now that the news has spread that Cinny is on rest for a month I have people asking me if I will use their horse and help get it fit for spring. 3 people! I guess they must see something in my riding skills that I don't LOL.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I never would have seen that. all I could see was that his whole trot was kind of small, and mincing. He's also put on some weight since I ve last seen him in video.


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

Yeah, his QH is showing right now, ha ha. I like him this way in the winter though, and with this cold vortex thing happening it was a good thing.


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