# Possible Buy Grulla Colt



## Annanoel (Mar 29, 2011)

Well saw this guy the other day and fell in love with him. He is has black grulla color as they call it, not too familiar with it. Looking for him to be in all around western pleasure horse. What do you all think? Nothing to really judge too much conformation, it's dark in the arena. If you skip to the end of the video they do a walk around of him to judge his conformation. For $800 I'm thinking it's not a bad deal and he is registered with the AQHA. I'm going to go out and see him by the end of the week and I will get some more pictures!


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## Moveurasets (Dec 31, 2011)

I am no good at conformation yet, but I love baby horses and he is so cute lol


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

I've always loved the color. BTW, typically, grullo is male, grulla is female.


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## mystykat (Dec 4, 2011)

iridehorses said:


> I've always loved the color. BTW, typically, grullo is male, grulla is female.


 
Really? I've never heard of that, just used either/or as they came out. Learn something new every day.


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## AndreaSctlnd (Jan 17, 2012)

OH MY LORD! I could just eat him up with a spoon!


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

I would avoid this one. First off, he doesn't look grullo to me, he looks just plain old black (Would be interested to know what colour the sire is). This tells me the breeder/owner doesn't know as much as they should about breeding horses. Big red flag IMO.

Secondly, who sits a kid on a weanling? Then lunges the poor baby? That's just asking for problems. This looks like a baby with a lot of "un-learning" to do before he can start learning again.

Thirdly, his conformation doesn't look that spectacular from what I can see.


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

In the video it's kind of hard to get a good idea of what he really looks like. It'll be easier to tell once he sheds out. I don't agree with Chiilaa about the color. From what little I can see, he does appear to have "frosting" in his mane & tail which is one of the "dun factors". Once he sheds, it'll be easier to see if he has any leg barring, shadowing, webbing, etc. all which help determine the buckskin/dun/grullo breed-color. Many, if not most of the grullo's I've seen, actually do look 100% black, you have to looke VERY close to see the dun factor.

As for confirmation, it depends on what you plan on using him for. If it's going to be a trail horse, he's a possibility. BUT, he seems very stiff/short strided in the back. I also noticed that the top of his hip is very angular. If you look at him from the side, he looks like he has a triangle on top of his butt. From personal experience, this can cause a lot of problems. So be ready to spend $$ on a chiropractor so he stays sound if you plan on using him for heavy riding.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

I am almost 100% certain that this foal is NOT grullo. I am still interested to know what colour the sire is before I say completely certain. However, the foal is the wrong colour for a grullo, and the right colour for black. Look at this link for more pictures of grullo babies.

Dun Central Station - Grulla Colors & Markings

Another link, showing direct comparison of black foals with various dilutes. Again, the foal listed in the OP matches to the black, not the grullo.

Dun Central Station - Black, Smoky Black, Grulla Foal Color Comparison


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

Chiilaa said:


> I am almost 100% certain that this foal is NOT grullo. I am still interested to know what colour the sire is before I say completely certain. However, the foal is the wrong colour for a grullo, and the right colour for black. Look at this link for more pictures of grullo babies.
> 
> Dun Central Station - Grulla Colors & Markings
> 
> ...


I agree with you that with the pictures & video it is hard to be 100% certain, and to be 100% certain you do need to know the genetics. I'm not trying to be a brat, honest! I get kind of defensive about the color breeds (I was disqualified for several Quarter Horse halter classes back in the day, because "a buckskin is not a true QH". And a very loud paint I used to show, lost classes to a QH with no paint genetics and only a 2" spot on the cheek (skin wasn't even a different color)) I've been trying to find some old pictures of horses I used to show against on the IBHA (buckskin circuit) that were registered as grullo, and by looking at them you could've sworn they were black! But I guess that was to long ago to find any digital pictures (it was back in the '90's) But I did find some pictures on the IBHA world show website that you can see horses that look black, no frosting, dorsal, or anything that you can see from the shots. I know that IBHA/ABRA is very particular on what they consider buckskin/dun/grullo.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

To be frank, using any registry body as a yard stick for horse colours is just setting up for being wrong. They are so outdated and behind that it is ridiculous. Like you said, they are just all over the place with what they will accept and what they will call it. Look at the AQHA even now - they register cremellos, but not perlino or smoky cream...


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## Annanoel (Mar 29, 2011)

Here is his pedigree! I'm thinking about taking a chance on him, she's willing to go lower with price. He does look weird in the video, but his winter coat is thicker and thinner in spots so he looks weird. Thank you all for the input, I'm going out to see him again soon to decide!

Wcr Happy Jack Quarter Horse

EDIT;; And I do NOT like where he is as I have said, not a sympathy buy, but I do feel he will turn out to be a great horse with the right training and I can give him a better environment and just let him be a horse till he's ready.


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## trainerunlimited (Jan 26, 2012)

I don't think he is a grullo, IMHO. I'd like to see some pics of him all the way around.


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## Annanoel (Mar 29, 2011)

trainerunlimited said:


> I don't think he is a grullo, IMHO. I'd like to see some pics of him all the way around.



Will do! She is sending me some pictures, and hopefully a new video in better light. It's quite a drive for me at two hours to get out there. So have been going back and forth via email, and phone. Hopefully will have some new pictures and video tomorrow!


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## Annanoel (Mar 29, 2011)

Here's one more picture to go off of, I'm no color guru. She claims he's registered grullo with the AQHA. Is that possible? As I said I usually don't buy off of color, so this is all a plus... but again I'm not sure. I don't see the color here in the, nor have I seen his papers yet. Video and more pictures to come tomorrow. Thank you for all the responses so far. I am learning a lot from all you color gurus!


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## trainerunlimited (Jan 26, 2012)

He definitely doesn't look like a grullo to me, lol. I have never seen one shaded like that and he has no stripes or anything else to go by. I'd say she is trying to sell him by saying he is an unusual color, could be wrong though, I do learn something new every day, lol.


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## Annanoel (Mar 29, 2011)

trainerunlimited said:


> He definitely doesn't look like a grullo to me, lol. I have never seen one shaded like that and he has no stripes or anything else to go by. I'd say she is trying to sell him by saying he is an unusual color, could be wrong though, I do learn something new every day, lol.


That's what I was thinking, pretty convincing till I saw this picture. Would be a lot easier if he was closer! After the pictures and video tomorrow, I think I will go out and see for myself. He doesn't look anything like a "grullo" in that picture. I've been going through other pictures on the web and reading about the color. Very interested though I'll give you all part of the last email, not trying to start anything. LOL. Just want to get to the bottom of this. 
_
"He likes to sunbath in the summer! He is a true grulla, he is registered as one. We have been able to see his dorsal stripe for months, even under his fur. He does have the zebra striping on his shoulders as well. He is a black grulla, black grullas have a orangeish/red tint to their mane, tail, and forelock as foals. We have a friend down in Illinois that has a black grulla with the same markings as HappyJack."_

In all the pictures she's sent I see no dorsal stripe, no leg barring or striping. Maybe it IS hard to see in pictures. Although, in a lot of the pictures I've seen on the forum and internet, these features are prominent...


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## trainerunlimited (Jan 26, 2012)

That lady has no idea what she is talking about and is probably not too knowledgeable about horse breeding, lol. Still, if you like him regardless of his coloring, go check him out! He is a decent baby.


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## Annanoel (Mar 29, 2011)

trainerunlimited said:


> That lady has no idea what she is talking about and is probably not too knowledgeable about horse breeding, lol. Still, if you like him regardless of his coloring, go check him out! He is a decent baby.


Definitely what I'm beginning to think. She has now switched to more along trying to sell him to me on his color which I have told her isn't an issue as long as he's a good boy. Now though I think she is trying to "prove" in sorts that he is a grullo. So we'll see may have a road trip ahead of me!


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

Can I change my opinion? Coming from the buckskin background, I change my vote to a "no" on the black grullo. Black grullos look black, in that picture he's brown, with no visible dun factor. And lots of colors have red in their manes & tails. It's definately possible with his breeding, but I just don't see it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Can I just say that the footage of him being "lunged" was painful to watch? :shock: Poor baby!!

I say go look at him. He looks cute, but he looks like he may have some attitude (I didn't watch past the lunging, which took up most of the video).


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## trainerunlimited (Jan 26, 2012)

Brown in dark colored mane and tails is mostly due to sun bleaching, my buckskin mare has it to a degree:










Not saying it couldn't happen in the actual coat pattern, but I've never seen it other than being sunbleached.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Sticking by the "not grullo" opinion for sure now.

Foals often have a false dorsal, and other dun related markings, even non-dun foals. These primitive markings are part of a foal's camouflage. At the end of the day, dun is a DILUTE gene, it makes the horse's colour lighter. There are extreme cases that can appear to be normal coloured bays etc, but they are the exception, not the norm.

As far as "black grulla" goes, all grullas are black. There is some variation within the colour, but they are all just "grulla". It's the same as the difference between light bay and blood bay - shades of the same. They will still have the lightening of the body, and the primitive markings associated with dun factor.


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## Annanoel (Mar 29, 2011)

After some digging I was able to find a picture of his SIRE, cannot find anything from the Dams side besides normal pedigree information. Wishing I could find a picture. Sorry it's so small that was as big as it went! Still voting with most of you on here that he's not "grullo" ...









Walkers Major


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Exactly what Chiilaa said. "black" grulla is just a marketing term. 

IMO the colt is black, not grulla.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

How old is he, exactly?

From what I watched, he looks like the definition of a fugly yearling with poor breeding and training. I have no idea as to why they're lunging this early, if you can even call it that. Letting him canter around on a rope in circles, bucking and tossing his head is not what I would classify as lunging.

That aside though, its really just hard to tell. Not only because of the dark arena, but because of those winter fuzzies. My miniature horse tends to look like some sort of freakazoid pony during the winter months with every conformation error in the book, but when you shave her down she's actually a very decent little animal. He also wasn't squared and kept dancing around in the video. I did see poor LS joint placement, upright shoulders, toeing out in the back, and butt-highness. The butt high feature is totally normal for his age, and his legs might correct themselves a bit, but the other things will most likely not go away.

All in all, I wouldn't buy him even as an all-arounder, simply because he's already had a lot of bad manners drilled into his head and he thinks they're 'A-OK' right now. However, I won't say that for sure until I've seen better pictures. Its really just all together hard to see him in the video.


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## Kansas Spice Girl (Dec 6, 2011)

If you go and see guy and he looks like he actually has some "dun factor" make sure you rub him real good... I had a similair situation I went to see a little filly in Ohio ( a 4 hour drive for me) and the people were so desperate to sell her they used Show color enhanceing spray to literally paint on dun factor. The sad part was it looked legit, and I wouldn't even have known it was fake if i hadn't of rubbed my hand down her neck... her beautiful chocolate brown barring came off. Long story short alot of "breeders" think their hot stuff and they produce champion foals... when really they are are just back yard breeders that give themselves a fancy title to make up for all the crap that they tell you. A good breeder wouldnt be pushing the "Oh my foal is sooo Rare" card as hard as this person seems to be, they would let the foal speak for itself. Im not saying this specific foal couldn't be worth a trip, because I've seen some great things come out of a terrible situation. I've seen some pretty odd shades of Grullo/Grulla, but IMO he definitely doesn't look it! Good luck with this little guy! Hope all turns out well


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

Anyone ever seen a mouse in their life time? That is grullo, but this colt certainly is not grullo. Even an untrained eye can see that. He is bleached out, making it hard for me to tell whether he is brown or black. Though because Chilla has said he is black, that is probably the case.

If he interests you, go for him. He isn't something to write home about, but he isn't unappealing.

With the lunge (spelling?) line part... um? They should have just left that out of there and practiced their skills a little bit. :/ I've seen worse people at vo-tech do that better. I see nothing wrong with lunging a yearling.. Heck, at vo-tech we lunge weanlings. Just.. know what you are doing before you do it.


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## trainerunlimited (Jan 26, 2012)

Did you go look at him yet? What did you think?


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

I don't care if he's grullo, black, green, or purple. His hindquarters are really weird. His hip angle looks off to me and he looks sickle-hocked. Poor leg conformation makes me nervous. I'd pass on this one.


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## Annanoel (Mar 29, 2011)

Have not gone out yet, the lady selling him is really beginning to go overboard. She continues to email and call, preaching the "rare black grullo" it's just crazy. I wish like some of you had said, she'd let him speak for himself so to say..It is a far drive, but the more she continues to go on, the more it turns me away. We'll see what happens in the next few weeks still waiting on the new pictures and video.


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

Annanoel said:


> Have not gone out yet, the lady selling him is really beginning to go overboard. *She continues to email and call, preaching the "rare black grullo" it's just crazy*.*BIG RED FLAG!!!!* I wish like some of you had said, she'd let him speak for himself so to say..It is a far drive, but the more she continues to go on, the more it turns me away. We'll see what happens in the next few weeks still waiting on the new pictures and video.


I'd start getting a bad feeling about this. The only time someone calls me after I've looked at a horse is because there's another buyer and I'm getting forst dibs. Otherwise, she's trying to push him on you to dump him. He's obviously not stud quality, so he's going to be gelded (I'm assuming) which means it doesn't matter if he's yellow with lime green stripes. His color & genes from him aren't going to be passed on. It's starting to look like a fishy deal, and you're the one that's going to get burned.


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## Annanoel (Mar 29, 2011)

Thank you all for your help so far, it's nice to have people to talk to, and get HONEST opinions.

I'm basically hi-jacking my own thread. This just came up. A friend knows I've been having issues with the lady selling happy jack and she has another friend selling a yearling paint colt, registered. So she emailed me some pictures. Would like some opinions on him. Figured you guys could help, since you know how many issues I've been having. He is more straightforward no "grullo" problems to worry about. No lunging or crazy work has been down, he is very respectful, and a polite little boy at that. Still a stallion as well.

This sounds/looks more promising to me, and she's not preaching anything.

Love the first picture. This is, RVP SCOTCH ONTHE ROCK.


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

Cute! I'm really not that good at figuring out baby confirmation, so I couldn't help you in that area


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## Annanoel (Mar 29, 2011)

busysmurf said:


> Cute! I'm really not that good at figuring out baby confirmation, so I couldn't help you in that area


Me either  I mean he looks good now from what I can see, I'm no conformation guru, but their conformation can change so much as they grow and even out. He is a cutie though.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

He's cute, really butt high, but most of them are at that point. It's so hard to judge babies anyways. You might get a better idea from looking at his dam and sire. Does she have any confo pics of them?


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

Where is he? That farm looks familiar


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## Annanoel (Mar 29, 2011)

busysmurf said:


> Where is he? That farm looks familiar



He is in Delevan, pretty close to the Illinois border. So another two hour drive for me, but he looks promising. Those are the only pictures I have at the moment! Pretty sure I will be going to see him before the end of the week so I will snap some for you all. His dam and sire are both on site at the farm too, so I will get pictures of them as well.


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

Not them. Looked like a place around West Bend


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## Annanoel (Mar 29, 2011)

This boy is gorgeous and has a good start.

Here's a video of Rocky, will be picking him up in the next few weeks if everything goes well. Have given up on Happy Jack, he has some medical conditions they were trying to hide as well. Complications with being gelded and many other things.


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## trainerunlimited (Jan 26, 2012)

I like him a lot better than the other "grullo" colt. I'd say if the price is right and you like his temperament, go for him! He doesn't have any glaring defects and should be a nice boy!


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## Annanoel (Mar 29, 2011)

trainerunlimited said:


> I like him a lot better than the other "grullo" colt. I'd say if the price is right and you like his temperament, go for him! He doesn't have any glaring defects and should be a nice boy!


I think I might have to, he is a looker, good boy and she's giving me a deal if I do decide I want him. She's getting the coggins pulled just to be safe, and hopefully I'll have myself a new baby. 

Again, thank you all for the help!


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## Kansas Spice Girl (Dec 6, 2011)

I also like him much better than the Grullo colt!  He really is a pretty boy...Good luck and keep us posted!!!


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## trainerunlimited (Jan 26, 2012)

Better update with pics if you get him! 8D


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## Annanoel (Mar 29, 2011)

trainerunlimited said:


> Better update with pics if you get him! 8D


He will be here this Saturday! So be ready for a new thread with picture overload!


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