# How do i breed my overo mare to get a paint foal?



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Pics aren't showing.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Also, if you are breeding for color... Don't. Go buy what you want.


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## bhorselover (Aug 28, 2011)

sire











one that kind of looks like her


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Pics still aren't working.


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## BarrelracingArabian (Mar 31, 2010)

Also a vote for go buy what you are looking for you will save money and time not to mention not risk your mares life just for a 'cute paint foal'
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bhorselover (Aug 28, 2011)

i wont care what comes out i will love it anyways she is an amazing barrel horse but now is retired she has that drive and loves to do it so i want her generations to go further


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## bhorselover (Aug 28, 2011)

i dont want to take the risk of breeding her to another overo because im pretty sure she is an frame overo so i will not take the risk for a lethal white foal


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## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

Oh boy :shock:
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## bhorselover (Aug 28, 2011)

Idk why the pics arnt working if you go in my album her sire is the black and white loud overo


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## BarrelracingArabian (Mar 31, 2010)

Then look for something that will compliment her and not something based off color because if you breed tk the first paint stud you could end up with a foal that has major conformation faults or in an extreme case a lethal white ending in a dead foal, not trying to be mean just trying to help you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

I have no trouble seeing the pictures. If you are going to breed her, DO NOT BREED TO A FRAME CARRIER! You would have a 25% chance of a lethal white foal and be devastated. Any stallion you look at needs to be tested negative for frame. You could breed to any other color pattern, but there is never a guarantee for the color genes being expressed.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Your mare is for sure frame.. I still stand behind what I said. If you want color, buy it, don't breed it.


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## bhorselover (Aug 28, 2011)

i was thinking of breeding her to an tobanio but it still has to be tested for lethel white i am getting her tested to. i was also thinking of breeding her to zanton firewater what do you think of him?


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

SunnyDraco said:


> I have no trouble seeing the pictures.


At the time I was posting no pictures were visible and there was no album visible on her profile.


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## BarrelracingArabian (Mar 31, 2010)

Without an actual picture of YOUR mare not a look alike we can not tell you if any stud you choose will complimemt her
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

If your really set on breeding instead of buying, I would be looking at homozygous tobiano stallions. There's still a chance that you can get a VERY minimally expressed pattern (to where they may look solid) but your chances will be fairly good for getting a colored foal.

I wouldn't choose a stallion just based off of color. Really do your research and pick apart each stallion that your looking at. People here are absolutely wonderful with finding conformation flaws so the more stallions you find, the better chance you will have of finding the perfect stallion.

Really good conformation pictures of your mare is going to help tremendously for getting proper help to pick a stallion to cross with your mare.


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## bhorselover (Aug 28, 2011)

i will post a pic later this week this is a new computer and no pics on it so i will download them later


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## bhorselover (Aug 28, 2011)

Heres zanton firewater


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## bhorselover (Aug 28, 2011)

I dont really like is back end though


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Pics are working fine for me ....

Dad is sure a flashy thing, huh?


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## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

Why don't you just buy? I see nothing special about that stud above.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kctop72 (Aug 25, 2011)

Beautiful horses but I'm with the others. If you want a specific color/patterned paint, it's best to go find it instead of trying to breed for it because there is no guarantee. However I know wxactly what you mean about loving her and having her for generations to come. I am awaiting my my first foal this year and am very excited to see what her and the homozygous tobiano stud I bred her to produces color wise!


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## bhorselover (Aug 28, 2011)




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## bhorselover (Aug 28, 2011)

she has never had a foal before she has been bred though before i had her she was in a big herd and the stallion bred to her but she had a miss carrage because they think that she got kicked in the stomache


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## bhorselover (Aug 28, 2011)

She just turned 17 this year and we have had a full vet check last week to make sure she is ok to breed. we will be doing frozen or cooled semen.


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## BarrelracingArabian (Mar 31, 2010)

Since she is older and maiden you are risking her more please choose very wisely and research have multiple vets numbers in case of emergency and dont rush into it. I still believe you should go buy something however you seem set.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

I think a Homozygous Tobiano would be your best bet. You may get a paint from that stallion but you may not. I'm no colour expert but I think you will have a 50/50 chance. Shalom


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

I'm another vote for buying instead of breeding. There are SOO many young prospects out there that you would be interested in... I don't agree with breeding for color, breeding just because you want a cute baby from your mare, or just want to foal experience...Those are NOT reasons to breed... I'm also against it because she's an older mare, is a maiden, and has already had a miscarriage.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

I can see the pictures just fine. Has she had prior foals? Have you concidered breeding to a stallion who doesn't carry frame?
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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

If you are fully decided on breeding, I'm not sure that stallion is worth your time and I would look at another stallion. As for her being maiden at 17, do you have a vet who will foal out your mare? With maidens id rather see her at the vets foaling with 24hr care and watch than let her do it without an eye on her. Its just the age thing.
I will have my mare foaling at my vet hospital since she is 13 and maiden. Its worth a thought unless your good foaling mares.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bhorselover (Aug 28, 2011)

Dont mean to be mean to any of you who responded back but FIRST i said i am NOT going to breed her to another overo i am fully aware of the danger of a lethal white foal.....(2) I was just asking a question im not to worried about getting a paint foal dont get carried away and critisize so much and (3rd) I have had 2 vets and a breeder look at her and she is perfectly safe for breeding and they will be there every step on the way to make sure she will be perfectly fine....


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## ladytaurean515 (Apr 2, 2012)

Well, I am just going to say this...from personal experience..since you stated your mare is most likely a def carrier of frame..even if you don't breed to another overo other breeds and solids can carry it. So make sure ANY stallion prospect has been tested. Other wise if vets have approved and you have a breeder for stand by. I wish you the best and safety! Keep me posted of any prospects and the breeding. Personally I don't like the one stallion you've posted but just my opinion.


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## bhorselover (Aug 28, 2011)

I was thinking of slicks left prints


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## bhorselover (Aug 28, 2011)

And thank you for your reply vary understanding and not critisizing me because I want to breed and yes i will make sure any stallions that i even consider are tested for OWLS and i am also testing her for it.


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## bhorselover (Aug 28, 2011)

I ment LWO sorry


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## ladytaurean515 (Apr 2, 2012)

Now he looks good...has earned some nice titles in his life.


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## bhorselover (Aug 28, 2011)

His owner is mailing me his breeding contract


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## bhorselover (Aug 28, 2011)

his stud fee is cheaper than zanton fire waters (palomino)


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## ladytaurean515 (Apr 2, 2012)

I like him better than the palomino..but then again I'm not a huge fan of pallys...the one I have was given to me with a brood contract and thats it.


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## bhorselover (Aug 28, 2011)

This would be my first time raising a foal but i have many people helping me i am an junior instructor and trainer i have brken many horses by myself using most of the DUH method


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## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

What's your budget on this foal? You know that if you breed Slick's Left Print, you are paying $1200 for two tries, plus the cost of hauling to a vet and shots. You can buy a live foal from their farm for $1500.


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## bhorselover (Aug 28, 2011)

well his stud fee is 600 and 175 for editional semen shipments


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

oh vair oh said:


> What's your budget on this foal? You know that if you breed Slick's Left Print, you are paying $1200 for two tries, plus the cost of hauling to a vet and shots. You can buy a live foal from their farm for $1500.


His stud fee is $600. $250 booking fee included. First shipment if free. Additional shipments are $175. Where are you getting $1200 for two tries?

Slicks Left Prints

Yes there are the costs of vet but "if all goes well" She could very well by under $1000 depending on what her vet charges and how many shipments she may need. She's obviously got her heart set on breeding. Let's leave it at that and try to help as much as possible. 

Everyone is jumping and saying "breeding's bad, breeding's bad, buy a foal" Well, ultimately it's not our decision. The best thing we can do is help to make sure that the OP does everything she can do to have a safe and successful breeding.

Oh and, the cheapest foal from their farm from him is $2500.


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## bhorselover (Aug 28, 2011)

Thank you for understanding it more from my side idk where she got those number prices from she needs to do her reaseach before she starts bagging on me and I do rescue and rehabilitate horses so far I have trained and placed 4 horses to have been neglected to new homes one is even being used for a junior rodeo heal horse.


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## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

Sorry, I did not see first shipment was free, so I counted the 175 twice. And I wasn't bagging on you, I was being serious and expressing serious concern over the price. And there are TWO horses for sale, one is 1500 and the other is 1800... but they are Patch the Buck babies. Sorry.

And I don't care how many horses you have "rehabbed" or how many horses you have trained - breeding and foaling is an entirely different game. I'm just showing you the cost of breeding vs. buying. It's not a bad thing to be aware of pricing. You can see for yourself in my breeding thread exactly what we're doing and what we're expecting, and that my opinion is valid because, like it or not, I do have a lot of experience in this area, whereas you have not bred a foal before. Please do not criticize me, a simple "Yes, I'm aware of the costs and am willing to take on that financial responsibility" would be polite enough.


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## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

ALSO I am just going by what I see on the website:

"*Stud Fee: $600*
Book now ...$250 per mare
*First shipment included (overnight air)* 
$175.00 each additional shipment"

I do not see where is says the booking fee is included. I have had mares that have taken on the first try, and I have had mares that took 4 times to catch. You never know exactly how good your vet is, or how quickly you can haul the horse to the vet, and things can become very costly very fast. It comes with part of being a responsible breeder and is something you should be very aware of.


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## gigem88 (May 10, 2011)

Can't wait to see who you choose to breed to!


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## bhorselover (Aug 28, 2011)

My budget is 4000 or at least I would like not to go over that. And I think I am deciding on slicks left prints he seems like a good sire for a solid all around horse. How tall do you think the foal would be? Safire my mare is 16.2hh and slicks is 15.2hh Safire was an early bloomer but idk about slicks. I will post a pic of Safire on this Friday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

bhorselover said:


> My budget is 4000 or at least I would like not to go over that. And I think I am deciding on slicks left prints he seems like a good sire for a solid all around horse. How tall do you think the foal would be? Safire my mare is 16.2hh and slicks is 15.2hh Safire was an early bloomer but idk about slicks. I will post a pic of Safire on this Friday.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How you feed the foal in the next year will make a big difference.


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## WyndellaRose (Nov 7, 2011)

I know you may have made up your mind but I found one homozygous tobiano black toby stallion. Here is his link and good luck with whatever you decide. 

Black Forest


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

WR I wouldn't use him for the OP's horse as she is supposedly frame and that guy carries the frame gene as well.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Argh! That stallion has frame, which would give her a 25% chance of a dead foal.

ETA: Snap ND


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## WyndellaRose (Nov 7, 2011)

Sorry. I only looked at the homozygous tobiano part as I was only skimming the website. Nice catch guys.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

She is your mare and you know what your budget is, so it is your choice if you want to breed her.

I would only add one thing: You said she aborted a foal. EVERY single mare that has been pronounced in foal and subsequently doen't not produce a live foal should be cultured while she is in a standing heat.

Most mares abort foals because the fetus dies. This usually happens when a Strep bacteria or other pathogen is present. A very high percentage of these mares do not culture clean and will lose the next foal as well.

These kinds of uterine infections have absolutely no outward signs and the mares will pass an exam by a good Vet.

When we were breeding a large number of outside mares every year (100+), I got to the point where I would not breed any mare unless; 
(1) She was a 'maiden' and had not been covered or inseminated before or 
(2) Had a foal at her side.

Instead of having the normal (up to 10%) loss of pregnancy rate, I had a 2 - 3% loss rate after I started culturing every mare except the ones listed above. It was cheap insurance against losing a lot more money from all of the expenses of a lost pregnancy.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

Cherie said:


> She is your mare and you know what your budget is, so it is your choice if you want to breed her.
> 
> I would only add one thing: You said she aborted a foal. EVERY single mare that has been pronounced in foal and subsequently doen't not produce a live foal should be cultured while she is in a standing heat.
> 
> ...


What worked for me was every mare that foal in my barn had the vet put antibiotics inside her after foaling.

I also liked to re-breed on the foaling heat.


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## WyndellaRose (Nov 7, 2011)

Out of curiosity, how can you tell this stallion has frame?


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

You mean the stallion you posted? It states he is OLWS n/O. That means he is a carrier. OLWS n/n is a non-carrier.


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## WyndellaRose (Nov 7, 2011)

Ah. Thank you. I love learning new things.


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## bhorselover (Aug 28, 2011)

Here's more pics of slicks


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## kctop72 (Aug 25, 2011)

This is great, I love learning new things but hate feeling so inadequate. So if the stallion is homozygous for the tobiano gene, can they still throw a lethal white?


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Lethal white = frame = OLWS.

OLWS carrier bred to an OLWS carrier = 25% chance of a lethal, 50% chance of a carrier, and 25% of a non carrier.

OLWS carrier bred to a non carrier = 50% chance of a carrier, 50% chance of a non carrier.

non carrier to non carrier = 100% non carrier. 

It all boils down to if a horse is a carrier or not. A horse can be be many, many other coat patterns and carry OLWS or not. OLWS is the only thing that can cause a OLWS foal.


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## kctop72 (Aug 25, 2011)

Thanks! This thread has been a tremendous learning experience!


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## bhorselover (Aug 28, 2011)

Here she is sorry for the bad quality they where taken with my phone...and please no rude commets


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## bhorselover (Aug 28, 2011)




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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Nice mare. I see a few faults, those hocks are a bit sickled for one thing and her shoulder would like a little more slope to it.

I don't like Slicks. He is SO butt-high, it's not even funny. I know your mare is fairly level, but even so you should be breeding to a stallion that is also fairly level as being butt-high puts more strain on the forelegs which can go on to cause problems. If Slicks was plain bay, with no white, do you think he would still be entire? I doubt it. Bay is "boring" (yes I know that it's not, I have a bay) so there's no point in breeding for it.

Your mare is not just frame, she is also splashed white and most likely sabino. So not only does she have a good chance of throwing frame (50/50) she also has 50/50 of throwing splash, and 50/50 of throwing sabino.

I did a quick colour calculation, and this is what you'd end up with if you bred to a solid chestnut stud.
12.50% - ​ *Chestnut Splash * 12.50% - ​ *Chestnut Sabino/Splash * 12.50% - ​ *Chestnut Sabino * 12.50% - ​ *Chestnut Overo * 12.50% - ​ *Chestnut Frame/Splash * 12.50% - ​ *Chestnut Frame/Sabino/Splash * 12.50% - ​ *Chestnut Frame/Sabino * 12.50% - ​ *Chestnut *

Which means, your mare has a MASSIVE 87.5% chance of throwing one of her patterning genes. I honestly don't think you NEED colour to be a big factor when you're breeding, you've got a pretty good chance of ending up with it regardless of the stallion.


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