# Has no one started a thread about this yet?!



## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I just came here to start a conversation about it. Looks like Mexico is expected to follow suit too.


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

I'm not aware of this. What's the story?


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Canadian slaughterhouses refuse US horses - National horse | Examiner.com


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Just followed the link and read the article (thanks for posting it) .....it makes sense, considering the implications for cancer-causing agents being in the product, I wouldn't want to eat it either......although I don't eat horse meat! Doesn't kind of sit well with me, but that's because I grew up knowing horses as work and pleasure animals.......


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

It's not good at all for American horses, are hay prices are already through the roof. The market will not completely bottom out, and horses will be starving in a field rather than shipped.


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

Yay ! For the horses.... Hopefully they stop all the slaughter houses. 
just my opinion...


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

The European Union has shot itself in the foot if it wants to keep horse meat prices from skyrocketing.


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## StarfireSparrow (Jan 19, 2009)

I agree with AlexS. We were already in a bind with a limited outlet for the unwanted horses and now there is none. With no kill market and the cost of humane euthanasia and burial so prohibitively expensive for some people, we are going to be seeing a lot more cases of either neglect or abandonment. The market is flooded.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

This is why breeding should be 'controlled'.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Stockland, Shipshewana and Sugarcreek auctions have all cancelled their loose horses being run through the auction. 

For the anti slaughter people, what will now happen to these horses? What do you suggest?


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

Thanks for sharing that. Hadn't heard about it yet. I agree with Alex. I do wonder though if it might help push to get them opened back up here?


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

AlexS said:


> Stockland, Shipshewana and Sugarcreek auctions have all cancelled their loose horses being run through the auction.
> 
> For the anti slaughter people, what will now happen to these horses? What do you suggest?


I'm not anti-slaughter.....I'm anti-breeding for the heck of it, because I can, because I'm free to do it, because it will be fun, because I'm curious to see what I will get, because I have a few acres, because, because, because.......

I believe there needs to be a humane slaughter system, however I do believe the problem is not necessarily the lack of slaughtering facilities/outlets, I believe it's the share number of horses that are being bred....

Albeit now that there is nowhere for these horses to go there is going to be issues with regards to neglect/health etc.......

Don't breed em if you can't feed em.....


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## Strawberry4Me (Sep 13, 2012)

I keep telling my horse (when she is bad) that she is worth a buck a pound... I hope she doesn't find out about this! :wink:


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## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

I think it's time for more people to learn how to properly put a horse down with a bullet, if we are now officially out of "predators" and outlets to control the unwanted populations.


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## OutOfTheLoop (Apr 1, 2012)

Spotted said:


> Yay ! For the horses.... Hopefully they stop all the slaughter houses.
> just my opinion...


How do you propose all these unwanted horses are going to be taken care of? Do you have that much time and money?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Tianimalz said:


> I think it's time for more people to learn how to properly put a horse down with a bullet, if we are now officially out of "predators" and outlets to control the unwanted populations.


You're right, if you can breed them, better learn how to put em down too......
Better own a machine with a bucket, a sling, and a gun.....


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## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

Muppetgirl said:


> You're right, if you can breed them, better learn how to put em down too......
> Better own a machine with a bucket, a sling, and a gun.....


I'm talking about horse shelters. Too many horses being kept alive that people simply do not have the money to feed, horses that had a decent length of time to live. There is no cruelty or mistreatment in humanely putting a horse of old age down if there is a need to make room for younger, stronger animals. Would I do it to a pet? No, but if I were running a shelter full of unwanted and expensive animals then sadly it'd have to be survival of the fittest...


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## AndersonEquestrian (Sep 25, 2012)

I agree. I am freaking out about how to feed my 4 right now and I am buying hay at $13/bale. I have an older ASB who I need to place but I can't because the market is down. She is kid safe, papered, BEAUTIFUL. I can't even GIVE her away because she needs to be trimmed more often than most horses..

Now with this.. Crap. =[ Guess I am stuck with 4 horses. Looks like I am not breeding anyone for a while, if ever, now.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Tianimalz said:


> I'm talking about horse shelters. Too many horses being kept alive that people simply do not have the money to feed, horses that had a decent length of time to live. There is no cruelty or mistreatment in humanely putting a horse of old age down if there is a need to make room for younger, stronger animals. Would I do it to a pet? No, but if I were running a shelter full of unwanted and expensive animals then sadly it'd have to be survival of the fittest...


That's right.


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## Ashleysmardigrasgirl (Jun 28, 2012)

They don't say anything about ivermectin being banned for horses intended for human consumption yet it is clearly evident on every tube that they shouldn't be used in combination with such food destined animals.


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## fkcb1988 (Aug 16, 2012)

I bullet is more humane I see then slaughter if you cant afford euthanasia. But you cant make a dime off of using a bullet. I understand why it could helpful in a way but I think its more used as a cop out from responsibly. I dont see a horse as a farm animal and to me selling your horse to slaughter cause you cant afford it anymore or because its no longer serving its purpose is despicable. Lets just kill off everything thats a drain on us or doesnt suit us any longer. I see how slaughter tries to keep a balance but I have read and searched and more studies has shown no higher of a neglect or abandonment issue than prior years and times. To each is own but I cant find justification to it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AndersonEquestrian (Sep 25, 2012)

fkcb1988 said:


> I bullet is more humane I see then slaughter if you cant afford euthanasia. But you cant make a dime off of using a bullet. I understand why it could helpful in a way but I think its more used as a cop out from responsibly. I dont see a horse as a farm animal and to me selling your horse to slaughter cause you cant afford it anymore or because its no longer serving its purpose is despicable. Lets just kill off everything thats a drain on us or doesnt suit us any longer. I see how slaughter tries to keep a balance but I have read and searched and more studies has shown no higher of a neglect or abandonment issue than prior years and times. To each is own but I cant find justification to it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Unfortunately with the down economy people can''t afford it. The cost of living has skyrocketed and the cost of owning horses has as well. While I don't agree or LIKE slaughter I can't find any other humane way to dispose of the unwanted horses. The way I look at it is "Would I rather die of neglect and starvation or a quick bullet to the head?"


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## Strawberry4Me (Sep 13, 2012)

Going back to the original delema... I have thought from day one of the whole horse slaughter debate that it is IN FACT a much needed service, if you will. BUT I also think that it needs to be regulated. Do I think my horse should be someone's dinner? No. BUT there are billions of people starving, and billions of horses that are useless and also starving or suffering in one way or another... Why not feed hungry people AND help control the horse population at the same time? BUT we cant be feeding people contaminated meat, and the meat that IS contaminated still needs a place to go... The topic is endless really. Which is why it makes for such a great HF thread!!


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

A bullet is more humane then sending them to a slaughter house. If you think horses are not neglected there, you have another thing coming. I wouldn't even send my worst nightmare to a slaughter house.

where I live you might get 200 bucks from a meat buyer. Is it really worth it?


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## Strawberry4Me (Sep 13, 2012)

fkcb1988 said:


> Lets just kill off everything thats a drain on us or doesnt suit us any longer.


 
Trust me, if we could do this with everything (especailly people,) the world would be a much better place... In my humble opinion anyway.


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

A Plate of horse meat goes for $75, its the restuarants that make the money, Not the people raising or selling the horses, And they are not going to starving people either. Its a delicacy!


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## AndersonEquestrian (Sep 25, 2012)

Spotted said:


> A bullet is more humane then sending them to a slaughter house. If you think horses are not neglected there, you have another thing coming. I wouldn't even send my worst nightmare to a slaughter house.
> 
> where I live you might get 200 bucks from a meat buyer. Is it really worth it?


To get them off your feed bill? Sometimes, YES. Sometimes a horse is just so far gone you can't save them =[

The problem with a bullet is it's not LEGAL.. At least where I am. You have to have 5acres to bury a horse on your property. You can't shoot any livestock(or any gun) in city limits..


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

I believe that if the 'riding, pleasure, race, show, horse breeding market was controlled that there wouldn't be such an issue. It would drive the prices of riding horses up because there won't be as much dime horses sitting on the market, which is incentive for breeders, and would also make potential buyers more cognizant of the investment they are making. Breeding should also be licensed (however, that's another thread!) that would also sort the goats from the sheep!

And, if there is such a demand for horse meat for human consumption.....then start farms specifically aimed at breeding for meat, just like cattle farms. That way there would be controls for drugs in the meat etc....

That's been my thoughts for a long time......

(how many horses can you ride at one time? Last time I looked, I only had one ***!) LOL:lol:


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## Strawberry4Me (Sep 13, 2012)

Well, after the week I have had with my mare, I might be donating her meat to starving children. SO at least hers will go to starving people. 

Shape up or ship out.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Spotted said:


> A Plate of horse meat goes for $75, its the restuarants that make the money, Not the people raising or selling the horses, And they are not going to starving people either. Its a delicacy!


Spotted, I admire your passion! We are sitting on just slightly different fences, but I still like you haha!


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## AndersonEquestrian (Sep 25, 2012)

A point my friend made (On FB).

"If you ever raised a cow, they to are smart an trainable. All the beef cows you see raised by 4h and FFA were hand raised, bottle Fed, trained, and the way they win a show is the meet buyers are the judges and bid on the cow. My dad sold his cows to meet buyers right there at fair and didn't come home with the cow just the money an ribbon. Are you saying we shouldn't eat a cow now too? People don't realize that horses were food before we packed them and then rode them... cows pack, cows can be ridden, cows can be trained.." - Nickie


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## fkcb1988 (Aug 16, 2012)

I see some pros but mostly cons. If you have a horse you should know how to use a gun. I think slaughter is more used by inability to sale a perfectly healthy able animal from an capable owner than the ones in dire need because the lack of money. My god a bag of cheap $10 feed for one horse getting fed once a day can keep it alive and from starving. Heaven forbid you takr away from your cigs, fastfood, satellite, cell phone to buy a bag. Pasture board for horse at some old timers place is what $50 bucks. Try to find it a home or sale but slaughter? Lets just send all our old useless dogs there too. Put them down before you try to turn a profit on your responsiblities death.

Breeding needs to be controlled! And slaughter houses and transport needs to be regulated and monitored. Neglect whether being starved in a field by owner or neglect from beating, starved on location.... Its wrong and a hell of a way to die either way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

We raised a cow or two, a few lambs....

Mmmmmm rack of lamb.....

Sorry, thinking out loud.......:think::think:


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## AndersonEquestrian (Sep 25, 2012)

fkcb1988 said:


> I see some pros but mostly cons. If you have a horse you should know how to use a gun. I think slaughter is more used by inability to sale a perfectly healthy able animal from an capable owner than the ones in dire need because the lack of money. My god a bag of cheap $10 feed for one horse getting fed once a day can keep it alive and from starving. Heaven forbid you takr away from your cigs, fastfood, satellite, cell phone to buy a bag. Pasture board for horse at some old timers place is what $50 bucks. Try to find it a home or sale but slaughter? Lets just send all our old useless dogs there too. Put them down before you try to turn a profit on your responsiblities death.
> 
> Breeding needs to be controlled! And slaughter houses and transport needs to be regulated and monitored. Neglect whether being starved in a field by owner or neglect from beating, starved on location.... Its wrong and a hell of a way to die either way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes but we need to get the problem straightened out. I have been all for breeder licensing for a long time. In the mean time we need to thin out the population.. There is not easy way to go about it.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

fkcb1988 said:


> I see some pros but mostly cons. If you have a horse you should know how to use a gun. I think slaughter is more used by inability to sale a perfectly healthy able animal from an capable owner than the ones in dire need because the lack of money. My god a bag of cheap $10 feed for one horse getting fed once a day can keep it alive and from starving. Heaven forbid you takr away from your cigs, fastfood, satellite, cell phone to buy a bag. Pasture board for horse at some old timers place is what $50 bucks. Try to find it a home or sale but slaughter? Lets just send all our old useless dogs there too. Put them down before you try to turn a profit on your responsiblities death.
> 
> Breeding needs to be controlled! And slaughter houses and transport needs to be regulated and monitored. Neglect whether being starved in a field by owner or neglect from beating, starved on location.... Its wrong and a hell of a way to die either way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I understand your fervor regarding this topic.....of note here:
When they transport horses, cows, pigs, sheep, whatever to slaughter, they actually let them stand out without food for a day or so to empty out their gut, because contents from the gut can contaminate the meat....ie. feces.
(I know this because my sister is a government meat inspector and I grew up in a farming community) Im not saying its right to withhold food from an animal, but one load of gut content across a boning room floor can shut the place down and make many people sick.....


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## fkcb1988 (Aug 16, 2012)

AndersonEquestrian said:


> To get them off your feed bill? Sometimes, YES. Sometimes a horse is just so far gone you can't save them =[
> 
> The problem with a bullet is it's not LEGAL.. At least where I am. You have to have 5acres to bury a horse on your property. You can't shoot any livestock(or any gun) in city limits..


See the thing is not just far gone horses are sent. More are still able thats the thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AndersonEquestrian (Sep 25, 2012)

Yeah, unfortunately there are a lot that are sent but you can't save them all. =[


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Strawberry4Me said:


> Trust me, if we could do this with everything (especailly people,) the world would be a much better place... In my humble opinion anyway.


 
that is just about the most outrageous thing I have heard in a long time! put down with a bullet every thing , including people , that is a drain on us? every old or sick person? may you never be old or sick.



Now, sorry that I had a little snit there, forgive me. 

Back to the topic; can't horses be slaughtered for dogmeat? I meant to say "dog food". it's late here.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Strawberry4Me said:


> Trust me, if we could do this with everything (especailly people,) the world would be a much better place... In my humble opinion anyway.


I'm sure Hitler would have agreed with you!

As for me, I see horses as companion animals, like cats and dogs. We don't send them overseas for human consumption, do we? What's the difference, the size of the body? That because horses are large we need to sell them by the pound? They deserve better than that.

Maybe we need to have some low-cost euthanasia options for horses. Maybe there can be some low-cost options like they do for gelding clinics. I know Horse-Plus Humane Society in California does euthanasia clinics from time to time. 

I don't know about the rest of the country, but I really don't see this glut of excess horses everyone talks about. No one has offered me a free horse or anything. I think a lot of folks are just ****ed because they can't dump Old Nellie at auction for $500 so they can buy a new horse. :evil:


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

tinyliny said:


> that is just about the most outrageous thing I have heard in a long time! put down with a bullet every thing , including people , that is a drain on us? every old or sick person? may you never be old or sick.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dog Meat, yup, but not sure about the drugs issue.

I think strawberry was joking, but i guess it got your attention! although I do remember a few prominent figures in history wanting to do that.....eek!LOL!!!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I dont' see a glut either, but I think it's more of a regional problem, so might not be happening here as much as other places.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

trailhorserider said:


> I'm sure Hitler would have agreed with you!
> 
> As for me, I see horses as companion animals, like cats and dogs. We don't send them overseas for human consumption, do we? What's the difference, the size of the body? That because horses are large we need to sell them by the pound? They deserve better than that.
> 
> ...



According to this article

Equine Welfare Alliance, Inc.: Confusion Reins As Canadian Slaughter Plants Stop Slaughtering U.S. Horses - US Politics Today

"In 2011 the U.S. exported over 64,000 horses to Canada and 68,000 to Mexico."


I agree we need euth clinics, and more importantly an affordable way of disposing of the body. A great many people cannot bury their horse on their land.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

AlexS said:


> According to this article
> 
> Equine Welfare Alliance, Inc.: Confusion Reins As Canadian Slaughter Plants Stop Slaughtering U.S. Horses - US Politics Today
> 
> ...


Who in the heck is breeding all these horses? Are there some Octo-mares out there that we don't know about? Shocking.:shock:


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## AndersonEquestrian (Sep 25, 2012)

trailhorserider said:


> I'm sure Hitler would have agreed with you!
> 
> As for me, I see horses as companion animals, like cats and dogs. We don't send them overseas for human consumption, do we? What's the difference, the size of the body? That because horses are large we need to sell them by the pound? They deserve better than that.
> 
> ...


How have you NOT seen it? What are you paying for hay?

I can't GIVE away horses right now! It took me almost 3 months to place a stunning Khemosabi grandaughter and I GAVE her away. She was broke to ride, papered, easy to handle, been shown.


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## fkcb1988 (Aug 16, 2012)

Anything being sent to slaughter needs to be monitored and stricter guidelines put upon animals and the facility. My problems with slaughter might be more of a problem with peoples ethics and morals and why they're sending them to slaughter verses the slaughter for the meat itself. Do I or we have a alternative solution for unwanted horses, no but do I think the solution is slaughter, no. 

My neighbor in high school had to put down there animal they called the vet, they came out that late night and shot the the horse. They loaded it onto a flatbed trailer covered it in a tarp and disposed of him for less than 100 dollars.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

There are 300 horses per day being slaughtered here, not sure if that is all of Alberta or not.
And I have never seen horse in the ingredients of dog food.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Spotted said:


> There are 300 horses per day being slaughtered here, not sure if that is all of Alberta or not.
> And I have never seen horse in the ingredients of dog food.


Sorry Spotted, had to answer before I went to bed
I am thinking, please correct me if I am Wrong someone, but you find more horse in the not so good dog foods like the dog roll type.....but then again, who knows? I'll be looking it up tomorrow! Gotta know!


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

fkcb1988 said:


> My neighbor in high school had to put down there animal they called the vet, they came out that late night and shot the the horse. They loaded it onto a flatbed trailer covered it in a tarp and disposed of him for less than 100 dollars.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I guess that's regional. A friend of mine paid $300 last year to get a body disposed of.


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## fkcb1988 (Aug 16, 2012)

trailhorserider said:


> I'm sure Hitler would have agreed with you!
> 
> As for me, I see horses as companion animals, like cats and dogs. We don't send them overseas for human consumption, do we? What's the difference, the size of the body? That because horses are large we need to sell them by the pound? They deserve better than that.
> 
> ...


Amen sister!! Well said!

And I thought she was just being facetious. Like joking about jerk people, or family moochers etc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

Spotted said:


> ...
> And I have never seen horse in the ingredients of dog food.[/QUOTE
> 
> My cats' and dogs' Vet told me one time that in the list of ingredients section on pet food labels there is usually something called 'meat byproducts' (or similiar wording) and that's where the horse meat comes in.


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

There is a misconception that horses are commonly slaughtered for pet food, however. In many countries, like the United States, horse meat was outlawed in pet food in the 1970s. American horse meat is considered a delicacy in Europe and Japan, and its cost is in line with veal, so it would be prohibitively expensive in many countries for pet food.
Not sure about Canada.


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## EvilHorseOfDoom (Jun 17, 2012)

All this talk of meat is making me hungry :-( Due to the extraordinary costs of board (not to mention Sydney rents and a few other things) I can't afford to buy _my_ food this fortnight. And now all I can think of is a big hunk of horse steak...


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## Silent one (Aug 22, 2011)

Muppetgirl said:


> This is why breeding should be 'controlled'.



Seriously? And I suppose you are willing to be "controlled" in this area of your life? Tell me, who is qualified to control you? I really would like to know who you find acceptable to make your decisions for you. And if they can "control" this area of your life, why not others? 

Handing over rights to someone else never stops with just one more thing.....


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

Ha Ha I was thinking popcorn


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## fkcb1988 (Aug 16, 2012)

EvilHorseOfDoom said:


> All this talk of meat is making me hungry :-( Due to the extraordinary costs of board (not to mention Sydney rents and a few other things) I can't afford to buy _my_ food this fortnight. And now all I can think of is a big hunk of horse steak...


Are you for real?! Whats it taste like? Lol Your ok with eating horse even though you have horses? Very interesting. 

Fyi.... If your serious, you eat whatever floats your boat. No judgment here. I actually curious 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EvilHorseOfDoom (Jun 17, 2012)

Silent one said:


> Seriously? And I suppose you are willing to be "controlled" in this area of your life? Tell me, who is qualified to control you? I really would like to know who you find acceptable to make your decisions for you. And if they can "control" this area of your life, why not others?
> 
> Handing over rights to someone else never stops with just one more thing.....


We're talking about horse breeding here... Plenty of other things in life are regulated - you're not allowed to export or import certain species (e.g. pests or endangered species), food quality is controlled, and many other things. Are you saying that all these are bad? :?


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## EvilHorseOfDoom (Jun 17, 2012)

fkcb1988 said:


> Are you for real?! Whats it taste like? Lol Your ok with eating horse even though you have horses? Very interesting.
> 
> Fyi.... If your serious, you eat whatever floats your boat. No judgment here. I actually curious
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Never eaten it before but I've been hungry a few times and looked at Brock (my horse, see left, very fat ) and have thought, "Mmmmmmm!" 

But I'm a steak kinda girl (with salt and pepper and a little oil, tossed on the BBQ for 30 seconds each side, still cold in the middle, on a bed of creamy mashed potato and half smothered in sauteed mushrooms - NOM!).


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## fkcb1988 (Aug 16, 2012)

Ahaha! You got me  I thought about it after I hit send.

But I think I just threw up in my mouth though!Lol All that sounds good except 30 secs and cold in the center. Im a well done dont mind alittle dry type of steak girl. I like my winnies blackened, my burgers crispy and my plate free of red juices. I always tell my husband to "leave my food on the grill a little longer you know like mine burnt". He always replies with a turned up nose "I don't know how to burn food". Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

EvilHorseOfDoom said:


> But I'm a steak kinda girl (with salt and pepper and a little oil, tossed on the BBQ for 30 seconds each side, still cold in the middle, on a bed of creamy mashed potato and half smothered in sauteed mushrooms - NOM!).


I like my steak the same way, or even tartare! My daddy used to embarass me half to death in the restaurants, "Just wipe it's **** and run it across the grill, she just likes the grill marks.". 

My only gripe with Canada and Mexico refusing the horses is, the starvation and abandonment. There's already been a big hoorah down by El Paso where supposedly "PEOPLE" were dumping their horses, come to find out it was a well known kill buyer operation because the ones that were unfit for slaughter were being refused, even then. So they dumped like 300 horses to starve right there on the border.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I had the opportunity to try horse meat when I was a teen, I did not as I was too young and idealistic at the time. I regret that now, I'd like to know what it's like. 


Lots of auctions have announced they are not running the slaughter horses this week. 


Anyone have any idea how long Bute is in a horses system for? I thought that was the purpose of holding horses on feedlots before slaughter - to ensure it's all out of their systems.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

AndersonEquestrian said:


> How have you NOT seen it? What are you paying for hay?
> 
> I can't GIVE away horses right now! It took me almost 3 months to place a stunning Khemosabi grandaughter and I GAVE her away. She was broke to ride, papered, easy to handle, been shown.


Wow, it sounds like someone got a great free horse! 

I got an ex-broodmare mare for $500 a few years back, but that's about it. Well, about 12 years ago a friend gave me a horse that she knew I was in love with. I kept him until he had to be put to sleep for medical reasons at age 32. 

Hay? It is $15.50 a bale (100 lbs bales) plus tax. It goes up in winter (was $20 last winter :shock but I pray it doesn't go that high this winter. Because it IS Arizona and we don't have pasture, we have to feed hay all year long. Yes, hay is expensive for sure! Probably one of the highest hay costs in the country. But I still don't see free horses. Unless you count a few lame horses that I suspect people have turned loose. And they are very fat and shiny.

I WOULD definitely rather give my horses away if I could no longer keep them than try to sell them to just anyone (like a kill buyer) for a few dollars. I would pay to have them euthanized before I sent them to a low-end auction. I feel like they deserve better than to be shipped off to god-knows-where. I mean, they are like family. I care about them having a good home.

So yeah, I don't quite get the whole "unwanted horse" thing. I can't imagine free horses not getting a home. Unless they are aggressive or hopelessly crippled. In which case they would be better off euthanized. I still think what drives slaughter is greed. They are not doing you a service. They are in it to make money. And people would rather get a few bucks for Dobbin than give him away to someone who can feed him.

If I only lived somewhere with grass I think I would have a retirement home for old and "unwanted" horses. That would be my dream.


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

"But I'm a steak kinda girl (with salt and pepper and a little oil, tossed on the BBQ for 30 seconds each side, still cold in the middle, on a bed of creamy mashed potato and half smothered in sauteed mushrooms - NOM!). "



Yuck!! I hope you deworm yourself regularly


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> I like my steak the same way, or even tartare! My daddy used to embarass me half to death in the restaurants, "Just wipe it's **** and run it across the grill, she just likes the grill marks.".


Bahhahahaha!! I've never heard that but I really got a good laugh out of it. Priceless.


I'm all for the U.S. slaughter houses getting going again..they should be regulated and a nice system set up but I'd rather a horse get a bolt to the head than sit in a pasture neglected and starve to death, founder, and any other problem they will DEFINITELY encounter before their body shuts down and they slowly die.. 

We had a thread a while ago asking who would eat horse and I'd try it, I wouldn't eat one of mine but I'd try it... Horses are livestock, just like any other farm animal.. 


I'd REALLY like to hear what the anti-slaughter people are wanting to happen now? What's the plan and what would you like to see happen.. Facts is, horses are going to sit in pastures, neglected, and die slowly.. Sounds like a great way to go if you ask me!


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

According to the article linked earlier, Bute NEVER leaves the system.

I am not against slaughter and I completely agree that unwanted horses are a huge issue. However... I am also concerned with potentially harmful meat being sold and served to humans. 

We sold our home and bought one out in the sticks for the sole purpose of being able to raise our own animals. It is important to me that I know what my dinner ate. I raise our "meat", I love them, care for them and say goodbye when butcher day comes. I could raise a horse for food, to me it's really no different than Wilbur, Porky, Bacon, Miss Piggy, Sir Loin, Wings, Turkey Lurkey, Gobble Gobble and all the rest of the animals that have taken up residence in my freezer. 

To me the issue is "is the meat safe?". I don't think that endangering the lives of people (or pets) is the solution to the horse market. If the meat IS safe, I am fine with slaughter... otherwise, no I'm not.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Strawberry4Me said:


> Trust me, if we could do this with everything (especailly people,) the world would be a much better place... In my humble opinion anyway.


Advocating murder?:shock:


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I guess I just wanted to say, before I leave this thread, that I know we don't live in an ideal world. But I believe we should try to work towards that goal. We shouldn't just give up and send our horses to slaughter. We should work towards the goal of responsibility and a home for every horse. 

Actually, with the market so low, and no place to sell horses, that actually *discourages* breeding. If there is always a base price a slaughter house will pay on the pound, than it *encourages* over-breeding. 

There will always be a market for well bred horses, but I don't think it's such a bad thing if there is no market for lower end horses, even though I own lower end horses, because it will discourage the breeding of lower end horses.

As a horse lover, I WANT to be able to afford a horse. I like the market low. I think it should be more like dogs and cats. Getting them into a loving home is more important than the money you make off them. And eventually if there is no money in lower end horses the excessive breeding will slow down. Because folks will not be making money breeding low end horses so it will not be a business venture.

So I dunno. There is no easy answer. But I don't believe slaughter is the answer. It only encourages folks to over-breed because there is a steady market for low-end horses. Only by taking that steady market away will the breeding slow down......eventually. I think we are seeing that already.

While I have not seen free horses, I do know of at least a few people who are no longer breeding horses as a result of the low prices they are bringing. That's a start.


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

trailrider- I agree with you however there are alot of high end horses that go as well. 
My main issue with slaughter houses is how its done, how the animals are treated, and how they are kept. With all animals, not just the horses.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Humane Horse Remains Disposal : The Humane Society of the United States


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

DrumRunner said:


> Facts is, horses are going to sit in pastures, neglected, and die slowly.. Sounds like a great way to go if you ask me!


Who does that? A responsible person does not let a horse die out at pasture. Or any animal for that matter. I would have to think it's a crime as well. 

If you see this happening, it is not because of a lack of slaughter houses. It is because a heartless, lazy SOB is not responsible with their animals.

Call animal control and the horses will either be adopted or euthanized. This "they will starve" argument does not fly in my book. A responsible person will give the horse away before it starves. There is no excuse for starvation. 

So what we really want are slaughter houses so lazy, heartless people can easily dump their horses and make a buck doing it? 

If you see a crime being committed, report it!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

There's an auction company, not low end slaughter bound auctions, that has been doing live auctions for years and years, but has seen the price of well bred, well trained Arabians drop to the point that they now are doing the auctions on line to save money. The end result of this is, I've been watching auctions this week and last week where perfectly good, sound, usable, registered horses are selling for $300. I watched a Top Ten National Champion sell for $5000. That horse would have sold for $40,000 less than 5 years ago. These are NOT low bred, unpapered horses. Many are not only registered but have had extensive saddle training and been shown and are selling for $400 - $750. 

We better wake up before we end up buried in the carcasses of those who don't fare so well.


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

I also heard of a horse winning the kentucky derby and selling right after to japan. They believe he was eaten.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

trailhorserider said:


> Who does that? A responsible person does not let a horse die out at pasture. Or any animal for that matter. I would have to think it's a crime as well.
> 
> If you see this happening, it is not because of a lack of slaughter houses. It is because a heartless, lazy SOB is not responsible with their animals.
> 
> ...


In this state, with the economy what it is, we are already sending home back packs full of food with the kids every Friday so they will eat over the weekends. The kids get off the bus or dropped off at school and RUN for the cafeteria to get their free breakfast, come back at lunch and now teachers are keeping food in their desks to give them just before the end of the day, because some of these kids will not eat at home. And it isn't necessarily because the parents are ne'er do wells either, some of them aren't eating all that often either. So.....we have starving people, the worst drought we've seen in 100 years going on 2 years now and you think people can feed their animals? I see animals daily that don't look like they're going to make next week, let alone next spring. And it's not because someone is heartless, they are beyond broke and beyond desperate to care for their families.

We have no animal control out in the county areas, and the deputies are not going to seize a cow or horse if they can avoid it, there's no where to put it and no one to take it to. They'll end up having it in their yard and feeding it themselves or having to shoot it themselves because there's no money in the county to pay for euthanasia.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

This is Craigslist in my area:

show low farm & garden - by owner classifieds - craigslist

Yes, horses are "cheap" I guess, but I just don't see a glutton of quality horses going for nothing. Which I guess is good, because I really can't afford another mouth to feed.

I see a few cheap horses, but nothing like you guys are talking about. 

Anyway, this is an emotional issue for me and I need to distance myself from it.

I personally am glad horses are no longer being shipped to Canada or Mexico. I can't imagine someone who loves horses approving of sending them to slaughter. I just can't wrap my head around it.  We can agree to disagree on this.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

trailhorserider said:


> Who does that? A responsible person does not let a horse die out at pasture. Or any animal for that matter. I would have to think it's a crime as well.
> 
> If you see this happening, it is not because of a lack of slaughter houses. It is because a heartless, lazy SOB is not responsible with their animals.
> 
> ...


It is likely that you or I would not send our horse to slaughter, we would deal with the issue ourselves. However we are not talking about you or I. It is unimaginable to good horse people that they would let their horse starve, however some people do despicable things, often worse than starving animals. It is rather naive to believe that we can just report these people and their horses will be removed. Where should all these horses go? 
Heck we can't even look after children well enough.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Spotted said:


> I also heard of a horse winning the kentucky derby and selling right after to japan. They believe he was eaten.


I think that was Ferdinand (probably amongst a million others) and he was slaughtered because he was no longer a profitable breeding stallion. 

And I do think that's terribly tragic. How can a horse that's made so much money be thrown away like that? It's a tragedy. And if his previous (USA) owners had known, they would have had him shipped back. They were never contacted about him.


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

Its all just very sad, no matter how you look at it.


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## Cowboy Ringo (Sep 17, 2012)

While im sure some of you are happy about this, to be honest, it puts the horses in a much rougher position.
Slaughter houses are the key to keeping the population under control, and further more, hay more accessible.
Horse meat is primarily used for things you wouldnt think of like dog food, but it should fall on the owners who cant afford to feed there horses.
Ill open my gates and turn my horses loose in the wild before i keep em locked up to starve to death.

While i dont have an opinion either way because both options has its pros and cons, i can guarantee you that before the next 5 years, horse slaughter will be legal in the US again. Theres already rumors of places wanting to open in Tennessee.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

AlexS said:


> It is likely that you or I would not send our horse to slaughter, we would deal with the issue ourselves. However we are not talking about you or I. It is unimaginable to good horse people that they would let their horse starve, however some people do despicable things, often worse than starving animals. It is rather naive to believe that we can just report these people and their horses will be removed. Where should all these horses go?
> Heck we can't even look after children well enough.


I agree, it's not an ideal world. I guess I am just being idealistic, thinking that for every horse there is someone to love it. Or at least care for it properly. When I was a kid I cried almost every day for a horse. To this day, I think it is an extreme privilege to be around horses. And it's a lifestyle, not just having a pet. My life is all about my horses.

I guess I just love them so much, I can't understand how other people don't treasure them the way I do.


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## Cowboy Ringo (Sep 17, 2012)

trailhorserider said:


> I think that was Ferdinand (probably amongst a million others) and he was slaughtered because he was no longer a profitable breeding stallion.
> 
> And I do think that's terribly tragic. How can a horse that's made so much money be thrown away like that? It's a tragedy. And if his previous (USA) owners had known, they would have had him shipped back. They were never contacted about him.


 Your are right.

Another thing i love doing is going to see the past derby winners while there at the horse park in Lexington. Its a great experience and people would flip before they let anything happen to those horses.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Cowboy Ringo said:


> While i dont have an opinion either way because both options has its pros and cons, i can guarantee you that before the next 5 years, horse slaughter will be legal in the US again. Theres already rumors of places wanting to open in Tennessee.


What I am wondering about, is the whole thing with bute and other medications that are apparently never completely cleared from a horse's system. If that is the case, it makes me wonder how horses can even be legally used for human consumption?

And if they can not, then will it be profitable for slaughter houses just to use horses as by products in gosh-knows-what? 

It seems that the biggest enemy of horse slaughter may not be people who are against it on moral grounds but rather the fact that horses are too hopelessly contaminated to be safely eaten by humans. 

I can't count the times I have given my horses dewormer, bute, banamine, antibiotics, etc. over their lifetimes. If that never goes away (who knew!) then they have a lot more contaminants than animals like cattle that are raised specifically to be eaten.

Maybe with tougher laws on what goes into human foods, the whole slaughter debate will become mute. There will have to be another solution for "unwanted" horses anyway.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Cowboy Ringo said:


> Your are right.
> 
> Another thing i love doing is going to see the past derby winners while there at the horse park in Lexington. Its a great experience and people would flip before they let anything happen to those horses.


I visited the horse park once. It was awesome.


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

I know cattle are dewormed as well, so are dogs, cats ect. and people still eat them. 
This whole thing is going to open a whole nother can of worms.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

trailhorserider said:


> I agree, it's not an ideal world. I guess I am just being idealistic, thinking that for every horse there is someone to love it. Or at least care for it properly. When I was a kid I cried almost every day for a horse. To this day, I think it is an extreme privilege to be around horses. And it's a lifestyle, not just having a pet. My life is all about my horses.
> 
> I guess I just love them so much, I can't understand how other people don't treasure them the way I do.


I hear you. I am a foster parent for kids, and while there is ever a need for me - animals are much further down the list. 

It's just not realistic to think that some people are going to give a hoot about themselves, their spouse, their kids - and then it's a much longer road to make them care about animals.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

So breeding is obviously where it all starts. There are a couple of people here who specifically breed for color only. Their horses are not cheap, so they are not likely slaughter bound, initially at least. But I think they ultimately are. 

You get someone who buys a foal based on color alone, it's likely they are not terribly educated, but have money. It's not out of the realm of possibility that they cannot train that foal, it's sold for less. It's moved on home to home, for less each time. Ends up at slaughter. In fact I believe that happened already. 

The other end of the scale. There was someone I got to know who had a mare in foal and another horse, they needed self care boarding, as they could not afford full care. I arranged boarding for them. After the foal was born, everything was ok for a month or two. Then they couldn't handle the foal at all. 

To me neither of these situations should be breeding - however they both feel that they are ok to do so. 

So who should be breeding? What should be the limitations?


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## Cowboy Ringo (Sep 17, 2012)

trailhorserider said:


> What I am wondering about, is the whole thing with bute and other medications that are apparently never completely cleared from a horse's system. If that is the case, it makes me wonder how horses can even be legally used for human consumption?
> 
> And if they can not, then will it be profitable for slaughter houses just to use horses as by products in gosh-knows-what?
> 
> ...


I completely understand what you are saying.
I do not believe horses will ever be slaughtered in the US again for human consumption. Horses will be slaughtered primarily for the things like i mentiond in my previous post like dog food. 
The problem with slaughtering horses is that you will never get everyone to follow the rules of what to give and what not to give horses and people will buy horses to take to slaughter at small sales when they have no clue where the horse has been or where it came from. 

The process of slaughtering is a lot better than it use to be. Its a crazy thing to think of what use to happen. Back when i was a kid, horses would be taken down to Tennessee in a slaughter house and put in a pin. They would pay kids to shoot a 22 rifle into each of the horses heads, and pay the kids about 20 cents a horse to do it.

Were definitely a lot more civil now, but the horse market is in shambles. Of course you see these horses on the net going for 20000, but if you go to a small town stock sale, a really good horse will be lucky to bring $300. If you get the market back up and limit it, i think you'll find the quality of a horses life much better when there more valuable.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Horse meat is not in dog food in the US. It has not been for a good while now. Horse meat is eaten by people in different parts of the world.


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## aspin231 (Mar 20, 2010)

AlexS said:


> So breeding is obviously where it all starts. There are a couple of people here who specifically breed for color only. Their horses are not cheap, so they are not likely slaughter bound, initially at least. But I think they ultimately are.
> 
> You get someone who buys a foal based on color alone, it's likely they are not terribly educated, but have money. It's not out of the realm of possibility that they cannot train that foal, it's sold for less. It's moved on home to home, for less each time. Ends up at slaughter. In fact I believe that happened already.
> 
> ...


I don't think that anyone can decide this part, ultimately. What I do think needs to be imposed though, is a breeding fee, and registered breeding.
Imagine having to pay a nominal fee of $100 for each foal you have born. If your weanlings sell for $5000, a $100 fee won't matter much to you. However, if you're ending up dumping your weanlings at auction and having them sell for $50, you may reconsider having to pay that $100 fee!
I think that this is one thing that could help over-population.


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

And people wonder why I get crazy mad when I hear people say "Oh, my horse got pregnant" or "I bred my horse to the $100. stud down the road" or "We just want the experience of raising a foal" Ugh! Too many horses already going to slaughter because of those reasons for breeding.

I have not had an issue with the slaughter of horses for human consumption, my problem has always been and continues to be the cruel treatment of them in the process. The hauling in inappropriate trailers, the people who wait until they are a bag of bones to do anything with them. The standing in feed lots without shelter, food, water etc... The being penned in so tight they fight and hurt each other. If we are going to kill animals for food, then do it as humanely as possible. 

Want to cut down the numbers? Quit random breeding of horses. That will help a lot.


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## Tracer (Sep 16, 2012)

I'm just gonna throw in my two cents.

I'm both for and against slaughter horses, of any kind. For, because it helps with the over-breeding and such. Against because so many of them are ridiculously inhumane.

What I believe we need, although it is completely unrealistic and will never happen, is a horse 'rescue' dedicated to humanely euthanizing horses. People who are trained and licensed to shoot livestock such as horses for a minimal fee, if any. Hired guns, if you would. 

I also think that people should be required to buy a breeding licence. Studs and such could perhaps pay a yearly fee for X number of foals, and people who bred for their own purposes could pay per foal or something. I can't see many backyard breeders wanting to go out and pay a fee just to make some dogmeat. The hard part would be keeping track of it all though.


Back to the original topic though, I feel for you Americans and your horses. If the Australian slaughterhouses stopped taking horses, I have no doubt that we would drive down the road and see horses, particularly Standardbreds, starving or lying dead in the paddocks.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Unless the US slaughter houses reopen, every one of us living in the US can kiss horse ownership goodbye within 10 years. The responsible breeders will breed only for specific need, and trust me, that's not going to be for people like us.

Since horses will be scarce their cost will be exorbitant, as will anything having to do with such an elite luxury item. Sure, the market is flooded now, but it won't stay that way. As the current horse population ages, there won't be any younger ones to replenish the supply.

For all of you dancing in the streets about this, you won't be spared, either. Hope you're able to get another 20 or so years out of the ones you have, because you won't be getting any more. Unless of course, you don't care about quality animals and will be happy to buy Billy Bob's scrub foal out of his fugly mare and by his conformational nightmare of a stallion.

Owning horses has always been expensive but it really WILL become the sport of kings, because you're going to need a king's ransom to own just even one.

Some of you may not like the idea of slaughter, but it puts a bottom market price on what is essentially nothing more than a very big livestock animal. If there is no bottom market price, there is no industry.


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## StarfireSparrow (Jan 19, 2009)

SR I wish this were the case in a lot of ways. The problem is that Responsible breeders have already slowed down production or have limited bookings. This issue arises from every back yard and/or barn blind breeder who is convinced that every one ELSE is the problem. Those people will keep breeding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dead Rabbit (Jul 14, 2012)

the american people and their illogical reasonings on what they eat.......

meat is meat. somes better than others. but the people here get some mental conclusion that something is a pet and then they carry that mentality to the whole breed of animal. ridiculous.

horse has been consumed in europe and other areas for 1000's of yrs before this US ever became a country. so why is it so horrible to think of horses being slaughtered and consumed here in this country??

id try it if i ever had the chance.

as for what some consider humane or in humane. can someone explain what the inhumane treatment is in slaughtering horses? is it them standing in holding pens till they empty out?


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## Shropshirerosie (Jan 24, 2012)

I don't know wether to start a new thread on this, or to continue on this one - what I took from the linked article was that the EU are stopping accepting horse meat from countries that don't operate a horse passport system.

The passport system in the UK is 10 years old-ish. It was launched ineptly, and has plenty of faults BUT it has huge benefits! When I came here I was surprised to find there is no such system.

The horse is issued with a passport that identifies the horse by vet diagram, and chip number if appropriate. It acts as a record of ownership, and a record of all vaccinations. It can alsocontain pedigree information if appropriate so can act as breed registration papers. It also (I think) contains a statement that the horse is / is not suitable for the human food chain. If it were up to me, I would take that passport system, shake out the faults in it, and launch it in North America. It adds a one-off cost of about $30 to horse ownership - which I think is worth it!

PS to those in the UK reading this, I know our system is riddled with faults - but that comes back to the inept launch I was talking about. I'd go with one passport issuing agency if I were in charge.


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## StarfireSparrow (Jan 19, 2009)

Rabbit, I totally agree! I love my horse dearly, I enjoy riding, I am even willing to say that there is a certain amount of affection between us in so far as it may be possible. I would not for one moment be willing to say that because of how I feel working with MY horse that no horse anywhere should be eaten by humans. I loved and cared for my rabbits when I raised them, but I ate them when that was the best option for ones that did not make the cut as pets. I enjoyed raising my roosters from peeps and could tell them apart, but they tasted good when they came out of the oven. I think we need to take a step back and acknowledge that horses were food until they became useful for other purposes. Anything that is not useful to a SPECIFIC individual (meaning I feel the "all horses should be loved" argument is not solid) an be reasonably re-purposed BACK to food.


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## Dead Rabbit (Jul 14, 2012)

MysterySparrow said:


> Rabbit, I totally agree! I love my horse dearly, I enjoy riding, I am even willing to say that there is a certain amount of affection between us in so far as it may be possible. I would not for one moment be willing to say that because of how I feel working with MY horse that no horse anywhere should be eaten by humans. I loved and cared for my rabbits when I raised them, but I ate them when that was the best option for ones that did not make the cut as pets. I enjoyed raising my roosters from peeps and could tell them apart, but they tasted good when they came out of the oven. I think we need to take a step back and acknowledge that horses were food until they became useful for other purposes. * Anything that is not useful to a SPECIFIC individual (meaning I feel the "all horses should be loved" argument is not solid) an be reasonably re-purposed BACK to food*.



that last sentence says it all.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Another thought; those of us who ARE responsible owners won't be adding to our herds. I've had my eye on a black & white half Arab gelding, but with this news there's no way in hell I'm putting another mouth to feed on my property. I won't be the only one doing this either, so the slow slide into only the rich owning horses begins.

I'm also going to be putting padlocks on all my gates, so nobody can dump their unwanteds on my property. 

If you think I'm exaggerating or that I'm being unreasonably pessimistic, you haven't been following the news as closely as I have. Keep your heads in the sand, and go about your lives as if nothing has changed if you want to, but I heard the death knell of US horse ownership when the borders shut.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

trailhorserider said:


> Who does that? A responsible person does not let a horse die out at pasture. Or any animal for that matter. I would have to think it's a crime as well.
> 
> If you see this happening, it is not because of a lack of slaughter houses. It is because a heartless, lazy SOB is not responsible with their animals.
> 
> ...


Not sure about you but where I'm from there aren't many rescues at ALL and those that are here are full and wont take anymore horses, no one wants extra horses to feed, a good bit of people can't afford to feed their horses so they stick them in a pasture and say good luck. There are people like that all over the country. The market is in such bad shape that you almost can't give a horse away..those horses aren't taken care of, aren't getting their shots or vet care.. So yes, they are sitting in a pasture and with winter coming on wont have grazing and they aren't getting grain or hay..The animal control here doesn't do anything for horses because ghere's no where to put them and no one wants them..they give warnings to the owner and let them off with throwing a few square bales in the pasture with their horses.


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## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

> Call animal control and the horses will either be adopted or euthanized. This "they will starve" argument does not fly in my book. A responsible person will give the horse away before it starves. There is no excuse for starvation.
> 
> So what we really want are slaughter houses so lazy, heartless people can easily dump their horses and make a buck doing it?
> 
> If you see a crime being committed, report it!


If only it was that easy.

This little horse was left in a pasture, she was slowly wasting away to nothing. Animal control TOLD us they could do NOTHING because other horses were being fed. I suspect that they also took her worm belly as healthy weight, and knew that even if they did seize this horse that there would be no where for her to go anyways.









_(This is her picture when I got her home to my pasture)_

She is very lucky she found a new home before winter hit this year, I'd hate to think what she would have been like come next spring. This is not uncommon, I see it very often and the numbers are growing. Anyone who looks on a local craigslist can see it, so many skinny horses that owners cannot feed or even give away and as they deteriorate they become even more worthless and less likely to get a home. 

I WISH there was a place for these horses to be taken to be put out of these horrible situations because not all horses like my most recent mare will get a lucky break.


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## AndersonEquestrian (Sep 25, 2012)

I read somewhere that last year alone there were 167,000 new foals registered with the AQHA. That is the AQHA alone.. No other registries. No if you add in the mustangs, the Arabians, the wanna-be breeders, that is A LOT of babies born.

I have nothing against Quarter horses. I have a problem with their breeders a lot of the time. My friend who raises QH's (who moved to NV from Alabama) will have 4 or 5 mares and breed them all to whatever has 4 legs and a weeny. And on top of it doesn't even feed them very well.
I have several QH friends that do similar things.. It drives me up the wall because they don't get that the foal will have no purpose when it's older. It will end up being one of these slaughter horses that we are talking about.
Now I have also seen some of my Arabian breeder friends do this too. They have bred their 20 mares and hope to get $500-$1000 for their foals in the spring. 

I just only notice this more in the QH world and back-yard world..

I think there needs to be a license to breed. I think you should have to get it through the registry or something like that so there is a breed standard in place and have to buy the license or something.


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## AndersonEquestrian (Sep 25, 2012)

Not too mention the Thoroughbreds bred every year for racing and when they don't make it they are discarded..

I think we are looking at all the wrong people.


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

Im so confused.. Can anyone shortly explain to me why Canada is not taking horses from here anymore? and whats going on LOL.. im brain dead ATM


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## AndersonEquestrian (Sep 25, 2012)

barrelbeginner said:


> Im so confused.. Can anyone shortly explain to me why Canada is not taking horses from here anymore? and whats going on LOL.. im brain dead ATM


Go to the first page an read the article..


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Shropshirerosie said:


> The passport system in the UK is 10 years old-ish. It was launched ineptly, and has plenty of faults BUT it has huge benefits! When I came here I was surprised to find there is no such system.
> 
> The horse is issued with a passport that identifies the horse by vet diagram, and chip number if appropriate. It acts as a record of ownership, and a record of all vaccinations. It can alsocontain pedigree information if appropriate so can act as breed registration papers. It also (I think) contains a statement that the horse is / is not suitable for the human food chain. If it were up to me, I would take that passport system, shake out the faults in it, and launch it in North America. It adds a one-off cost of about $30 to horse ownership - which I think is worth it!
> 
> PS to those in the UK reading this, I know our system is riddled with faults - but that comes back to the inept launch I was talking about. I'd go with one passport issuing agency if I were in charge.


I agree it is all a PITA but, passports are issued to all foals and now they also have to be microchipped. As for costs - now a vet has to fill in the identification certificate and a vet has to inject the microchip. Costs are way above $30 if the US goes for the same.

In the UK it is nigh impossible for an owner to get any drugs other than from the vet. 

The fact that 'BUTE' is now banned means that any horse that has been given a dose any when in its life, should have its passport signed to say that it is no longer suitable for the food chain. 
That rules out over 90% of the horses in the UK.

The other point is that vets have not been told it is compulsory that they sign the passports to say it as had bute.

Over breeding and the current financial world is going to lead to a lot of horses just being abandoned or owners trying to keep them when they have not got the money.
People are already moaning about the price of hay - which is nothing to what we pay in the UK - conveniently forgetting that there was a severe drought this year cutting yields right back. Opposite in the UK where wet has destroyed most hay making and harvests. The cost of feed for animals will sky rocket as will the cost of human food. 

Personally I have taken horses to slaughter for human consumption, it doesn't bother me what happens to them when they are dead. What does bother me is the way that they are euthanised. 

I have had six horse put down in the last five years. All for a variety of reasons. All were put down at home by the hunt kennel man who also took the carcass to feed to hounds. As I have Foxhound pups here I collect flesh from them for feeding the dogs so I know I have fed some of our horses to our dogs. 
I find this no different to growing lambs or beef and having that slaughtered and returned to the dinner plate.

Slaughter of horses for human consumption and transporting of all livestock is far, far tighter than any other country in the world. 
There is nothing inhumane about how the horses are destroyed at all, they really do not know what is happening.

Something radical is going to have to happen in the USA to stop neglect and indiscriminate breeding. However there are no more stubborn people who will not want extra paperwork in registering horses for passports. 

It is all totally farcical, France, Belgium and other EU countries that eat horse meat are not anywhere near as particular about passports or whether a horse has had drugs or not before it enters the food chain.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

trailhorserider said:


> This is Craigslist in my area:
> 
> show low farm & garden - by owner classifieds - craigslist
> 
> ...


Give this news a couple of weeks to get out and see what happens. I now have 2 that I was thinking of selling before winter that I would now GIVE to a good home. They're both registered, one is double registered and UTD on everything. The problem is, they're not QHs and in this area it takes a lot longer to sell something that isn't a QH. They're young, so not ready to ride. NOBODY is going to buy them. And because they are not QHs, even if they're saddle broke nobody will buy them around here. I've quit breeding Arabians, these are the last 2. I've gelded the stallion, the mares are open and they're not even for sale because the Arabian market is so far down. 

With the refusal of American horses, if Mexico follows suit quickly, there will be such a glut of QH's in this area, I'll be very lucky to even give them away.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

AndersonEquestrian said:


> I read somewhere that last year alone there were 167,000 new foals registered with the AQHA. That is the AQHA alone.. No other registries.


For the last several years there have been less than 3,000 new foals registered in the Arabian Registry. AHAs stance is, there's going to be a shortage so you better breed anything with a womb........HOLY CRAP! Can we at least TRY for quality? 

And I know a lot of big farms who breed in excess of 100 foals per year. They don't register that many, and don't 'admit' that they had that many but they do it. 

And then there are the irresponsible stallion owners (Ibn ShouldaBeenGelded) who pimp their mediocre stallion to anyone with a mare, saying the stallion will 'fix' any of Bint Backyard's faults. And then there's Bint Backyard's owner who wants Bint Bint Backyard ShouldaNeverBeenBred, so her kids can experience the foaling process. 

We're all responsible to fix the mess we're in.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

We need another solution for the bottom of the market though, if Bute lasts a lifetime, that rules out the majority of horses for human consumption. 

Even if the US plants open up, that doesn't solve the Bute issue.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

Hi
Forgive me if I point out something thats already be said. I agree with others its not the cost of euthanizing a horse its that burying a horse requires a big hole or a big wallet. Some places cremate horses but thats running into the hundreds or thousands. You can low cost euthanize all you want but you still have to get rid of the body. 

I don't like that everyone blames the racing industry. I am not friend of the Thoroughbred horse or those that race them. I do think its unfair to blame them for the glut of horses that are unwanted. How many thoroughbred breeders do you know? How many people do you know who are breeding this horse to that horse because they want a foal? Remember, the Jockey club does not allow AI its all natural cover so you can't breed as many mares. I think the bigger issue is people who are not gelding their horses. To that end low cost gelding clinics are an idea. The issue there is of course that a equine castration is different that that of a dog. The drugs are more and the risks are higher. Dogs are not going to stumble and break their leg waking up from anesthesia. 

I think their is a valid risk for horse meat being contaminated. How many people have given their horse banamine or bute in the last 30 days? Lets not even talk about supplements. The idea of having horses set up just to be slaughtered is an interesting one; however, it would be a hard sell. As a general rule, cows are a bit easier keepers than horses. Horse need different fencing, and are more expensive to care for. A cow can have hardware disease (where metal they have eaten punches through their stomach), wall the infection off and go on living. A horse would promptly die. You start keeping horses as meat animals and you will have a reduction in care. Who wants to pay for shoes for a horse when you are only going to get .50c a pound? In addition, there is a 60 day hold for slaughter on banamine. Which means that sometimes (and I am not saying its right or wrong I am just saying it occurs) cows don't get pain medication when they probably should. If the cow goes down the tubes a few hours after the vet has left the property the owner can still load it, trailer and slaughter it before it would have the chance to die on their property. A lot of people inside and outside the horse world would have a problem with that sort of mentality. There is not as much romantic ideology in cows as their is in horses. No one every wrote a story called "The Black Bull" or made a movie about a high producing diary cow. When you talk about changing horses into a meat animal you are talking about changing an entire cultures way of viewing them.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

AlexS said:


> We need another solution for the bottom of the market though, if Bute lasts a lifetime, that rules out the majority of horses for human consumption.
> 
> Even if the US plants open up, that doesn't solve the Bute issue.


 
I think we need a credible study done that studies not only IF bute and others truly do last a lifetime or if that's been a scare tactic. And if we discover that while they last a long time, they actually clear in a specific amount of time, we need to know that time frame. 

If bute does not clear the system EVER, then we need to know how much over how long a time causes the ill effects. They've shown certain things are carcinogenic but then upon further study discover that they're only carcinogenic when consumed in amounts that would NEVER be realistically used and need multiple doses DAILY over a lifetime to cause ill effects. 

It's not that I don't believe that bute and some others store in the body for a lifetime, it's just that there's been so much misinformation touted and so many scare tactics used that I would want confirmation that it is indeed SO. 

We know dewormers clear in about 30 days, that's why there's a withdrawal notice on the labels. Let's re-check the other frequently used drugs and re-confirm what their withdrawals are, if there are indeed withdrawals. 

I think we need to re-examine the WHOLE picture from a perspective that will truly give us a clear picture of how we really stand. No slants, no cover ups, just cold, hard facts and the chips fall where they fall.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Very good points Dreamcatcher. 

I just received this email. 

*PRESS RELEASE*​ 
Contact: 
Sue Wallis, United States, Chair, International Equine Business Association
[email protected]
307 680 8515

*International Equine Business Association calls for quick resolution of international horse industry crisis to prevent increased horse suffering*

Yesterday, October 12, 2012, the international commerce in horses for processing from the United States to both Canada and Mexico was disrupted by an unannounced action of the European Union. Approximately 2,500 head of horses per week have been crossing the border to European Union regulated plants in Mexico per week, and an estimated 1,300 head to Canada in recent months. 

This is a higher number than usual driven by the widespread drought, devastating fires, high cost of feed, and lack of pasture forage in the United States leaving horse owners with few options except the selling of horses. There is a strong worldwide demand for cheval. Cheval is the common name for meat produced from the equine species in the same way that beef refers to meat produced from cattle, and pork refers to meat from hogs. 

In the United States, the USDA Food Safety and Inspection Service is still finalizing the validation of science underlying their equine drug residue testing program, which they anticipate will be completed by the end of the year. Several U.S. based companies anticipate receiving the necessary grants of inspection to begin operation at that time providing a much needed humane option for the horse industry in the United States. Currently the only viable outlet is transportation outside of the U.S. to the E.U. regulated plants in Mexico or Canada. 

Today, the leaders of the International Equine Business Association: Sue Wallis of the United States, Bill des Barres of Canada, and Olivier Kemseke representing Mexico, Argentina, and the European Union are issuing the following statement: 

"The International Equine Business Association (IEBA), including it's partner the Horse Welfare Alliance of Canada (HWAC), and its members in the United States and Mexico who are businesses engaged in the provision of accurate information and education respecting the health and welfare of horses and the equine products trade, have been working to advance an industry leading Equine Identification, Tracking and Traceability system that provides a fully compliant, auditable data base that exceeds the standards of the European Union. 

In consideration of the immediate welfare of some 48,000 horses in the next 3 months, it is notable that our organizations have sourced, contracted and facilitated the implementation of an internationally harmonized equine traceability system that can be fully utilized within the next 90 days in the U.S. and Canada. Major components similar to the industry driven IEBA Equine Quality Assurance Program in the United States, and the Equine Traceability Canada systems, are already in use in Mexico to assure all horses processed for food are uncontaminated, and that horses can be identified, tracked and traced in compliance with rules and regulation." 

To ensure the welfare of horses and avoid an international humanitarian and economic catastrophe, the International Equine Business Association joins with thousands of North American horse owners and businesses to call on all applicable government entities in North America and the European Union to work quickly to resolve this crisis as soon as possible. Times of worldwide economic and social hardship are exacerbated by regulatory actions that cause horrific, unnecessary animal suffering, destroy jobs, narrow economic opportunity, disrupt international commerce, and limit access to a sought after, affordable, high quality, and safe protein source for the world. 

-END-​


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Thank you, Alex. That last paragraph especially is something that's been on my mind. 

It's not just that horses will become scarce in the US if we don't find a solution, but many of the jobs the industry supplies will be lost as well. Our economy's already in the toilet; it can't take such a crippling blow without dire consequences.


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## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

Speed Racer said:


> Thank you, Alex. That last paragraph especially is something that's been on my mind.
> 
> It's not just that horses will become scarce in the US if we don't find a solution, but many of the jobs the industry supplies will be lost as well. Our economy's already in the toilet; it can't take such a crippling blow without dire consequences.


Especially for the next generation of horsemen and women like myself trying desperately to break "onto the scene." What effects the future of horses effects many equestrian careers people like myself are fighting to get into. Sometimes I wish my passion was for something more sustainable in this economy :lol:


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> I think we need a credible study done that studies not only IF bute and others truly do last a lifetime or if that's been a scare tactic. And if we discover that while they last a long time, they actually clear in a specific amount of time, we need to know that time frame.
> 
> If bute does not clear the system EVER, then we need to know how much over how long a time causes the ill effects. They've shown certain things are carcinogenic but then upon further study discover that they're only carcinogenic when consumed in amounts that would NEVER be realistically used and need multiple doses DAILY over a lifetime to cause ill effects.
> 
> ...


DA, the half-life of bute is already known...and it is relatively short, meaning the amount of bute residue goes down very quickly. However, the issue that is being argued is that even though the concentration gets very very low quickly, it never really goes away altogether. I'm not sure I agree with that...while it is true that no matter how many half-lifes transpire, the "residue" never gets to zero, many scientists will agree that at some point down the line the half-lives themselves become meaningless and whatever substance is involved is gone. Just because a half-life progression never reaches zero mathmatically does not mean some residue of a substance, no matter how small, will remain to infinity.

Using what appears to be the average estimate of the half-life of bute, after 50 days, there would be only 1/1024 of the bute left in a horse's system, and at 60 days there would be 1/4096 left - obviously at 60 days you are talking about just a slight trace. I am no doctor, but I seriously doubt such a small amount would be of any consequence, particularly when, although all the bute left would be concentrated in tissues that would be eaten (as opposed to bones, tendons, etc.), it would be spread over however much meat there is on a horse after butchering - I am clueless as to that, but from my hunting experience I would guess there is maybe 600 pounds of meat on a 1,000 pound horse. 

Overall, I think the issue, at least when it comes to bute, is a bit exaggerated, and I would think a quarantine of 60 days would be sufficient to avoid any problems. However, that is my opinion only. I do not know what level of bute ingestion is considered dangerous to humans. I can't imagine the dangerous level being as small as it would be in a horse after a 60 day quarantine, but I suppose it is possible...I'm no toxicologist...


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Anyone seeing a difference on their CL yet? 
Since yesterday there are 8 ads for cheap horses on my Craigslist. A normal amount would be 1 or 2 a week. 8 within the space of two days, is a huge number.


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## StarfireSparrow (Jan 19, 2009)

Honestly, I have not seen a difference since this news was released, but prices have been rock bottom around here for a while anyway.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

A positive thought about this that makes me happy is that the scam rescues that save horses from feedlots, and thereby giving massive profits to the meat guys will be out of business.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

People here tend to take their horses to the auction at Bristow, 2X/month. So, not on Craigslist. But I am seeing more and more tack and trailers for very low prices.

Round bales are being advertised for $100 now.


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

not recently.. but the last time I went to a livestock auction that happens every wednesday.. there are * NORMALLY* 16-20 horses there.. last time I went.. there was 75):


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

They've been running 300-500 horses through our local auction, 2X month.


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

dang^^


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

AlexS said:


> It's not good at all for American horses, are hay prices are already through the roof.


How are your bullet prices? 

Seriously, that's the best solution in this situation.

As for a long term solution, you could always start eating horses yourselves.


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

I think they could be used to make an affordable, quality dog food. I would feel much better about "horse" than "bone meal".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

ponyboy said:


> As for a long term solution, you could always start eating horses yourselves.


:shock::-| never! lol


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## StarfireSparrow (Jan 19, 2009)

ponyboy said:


> As for a long term solution, you could always start eating horses yourselves.


Yanno, come to think of it, I have RIDDEN a few that made me wonder how they would taste...


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

I cannot hate it until I try it. The only thing that would bother me would be trace drug contamination. If someone offered me 100% certified safe, and possibly organic, horse meat, you bet I would try it. Especially jerky. I am a sucker for jerky. I heard it is a leaner, healthier meat than beef.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

A bullet only kills the animal, it doesn't do anything about the 1,000 pound carcass. Except for certain areas of the country you can't bury said carcass, so what do you propose is done with it? Multiply that rotting carcass by several hundred thousand, and you have an ecological crisis. So a flippant statement about the price of bullets is completely unhelpful, and not at all humorous.

The SALE of horsemeat for human consumption isn't legal, but if you want to take your horse to the local butcher, it's completely legal to have it processed into meat.


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## goneriding (Jun 6, 2011)

Sooooo, what ever happened to the three s's? Shoot shovel and shut up.


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## Failbhe (May 8, 2012)

good luck shoveling a hole that big... you better have a backhoe or a pretty big tractor with a bucket. Oh, and your own land, and that land better not have a lot of rocks in the soil either.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

You also better live in a part of the country that allows livestock burials on your property.


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

^^ my neighbors ( 2 different neighbors) have had to bury there horses.. one.. broke her shoulder.. earned herself her bullet sadly.. and one.. was 31.. and flipped over a barbed wire fence and then died.. buried him as well.. We all come together and my parents and the neighbors with the broke shoulder horse have a skid steer. and dug holes for both horses.. but thinking about it.. we each have 40 acres.. so were not limited to property nor equiptment....

but not everyone is like that.. I just hope this is all figured out..


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

^^ my neighbors ( 2 different neighbors) have had to bury there horses.. one.. broke her shoulder.. earned herself her bullet sadly.. and one.. was 31.. and flipped over a barbed wire fence and then died.. buried him as well.. We all come together and my parents and the neighbors with the broke shoulder horse have a skid steer. and dug holes for both horses.. but thinking about it.. we each have 40 acres.. so were not limited to property nor equiptment....

but not everyone is like that.. I just hope this is all figured out..


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## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

My neighbor is having her old horse cremated (poor old man is getting up there, we don't think it'll be long now) when he passes on, I think she said it's going to cost $200, but I can't be super sure.

I do kind of like the idea of being able to take a horse to the butcher if you can guarantee a quick and painless kill... though in all honesty I can't see taking my own pets to such a end, bur then they have no place in any auction either... they're kinda stuck with me until the very end :lol:


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

Our county tried to suspend the dead stock removal service. It was soon reinstated with a $20 fee per animal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## goneriding (Jun 6, 2011)

Backhoes can be rented. You do what you have to do. It isn't like you are dropping multiple horses at one time. It is ONE.


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## Dead Rabbit (Jul 14, 2012)

Speed Racer said:


> You also better live in a part of the country that allows livestock burials on your property.



lol...hence the last *S*


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

True backhoes can be rented. You are sort of at the mercy of the operator because lets face it with that kind of machine I would not let joe nobody operate it. I know a few people who have had their horse euthanized and had to sit on it for a few hours with a gun for coyotes. 

This is all fine and dandy to discuss euthanizing horses, shooting horsing and burying horses among the equine community. We are people who are facing 13 dollar hay bales. A lot of the population in the USA is out of touch with farming and the features of living with animals.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

Sorry, horses were squealing and I had to go inspect the situation. All is fine! What I am trying to say is that how do you handle the fact that the people who are making decisions on equine transport/slaughter and the general unwanted horse population are largely from outside the industry. The disconnect between farm/ranch/animals as something different than a dog or cat is large. I guess the thorny question I ponder is how do you convince those outside horses that euthanizing a horse is sometimes the best option? How do you impress upon them the financial mine field that is equine rescue? God bless equine rescues and sanctuaries because that is a thankless and expensive operation. Equine rescues are not a realistic solution, in my opinion, to the unwanted horse issue, but it can appear that way to an outsider. How do you convince the good hearted to do what appears to be a cold hearted thing?


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

Also, don't forget to call before you dig!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Tianimalz said:


> My neighbor is having her old horse cremated (poor old man is getting up there, we don't think it'll be long now) when he passes on, I think she said it's going to cost $200, but I can't be super sure.


It cost me more than that to cremate my dog. I'd have to imagine that horses would be much more, but perhaps it's regional. 


All of the talk of burying is not an available option to most people who board their horses. 
Nor is it an option for many who would not be permitted by law.


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## Drifting (Oct 26, 2011)

goneriding said:


> Backhoes can be rented. You do what you have to do. It isn't like you are dropping multiple horses at one time. It is ONE.


I board my horse. The farm owner doesn't allow people to bury horses on her property (It's against the law due to property size/location.)

As AlexS said, it isn't always an option.

The people who come haul away horses charge $400.00 for pick up and removal where I live. And that's not counting the cost of the vet to come Euth (Though I would shoot it, if I thought I had good enough aim to be able to shoot him where it counts.)


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## Tracer (Sep 16, 2012)

You could always do what a horse stud near me does... Toss them down an old well. Or what another does, which is pile them up and set them alight. The downside of both of these is the smell; if you've never smelt burning horse, you're lucky. Worse than the usual burnt flesh smell.

Honestly, I think that America (and other countries of course) need to arrange a foreign aid deal. Horse meat might be a delicacy right now, but when there's such a large potential amount, it should really be shipped out to the countries that need it. Or, if Europe reopens trade, send it to Europe and they can send their beef to the suffering countries.

Better yet, convince some Hollywood stars to start eating it. The world always seems to follow in their footsteps. But I guess then PETA will be jumping on everyone's backs.


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## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

AlexS said:


> It cost me more than that to cremate my dog. I'd have to imagine that horses would be much more, but perhaps it's regional.
> 
> 
> All of the talk of burying is not an available option to most people who board their horses.
> Nor is it an option for many who would not be permitted by law.


Yes, yes I was wrong, sorry I was just reciting what I had heard during chit chat  I can't get an exact pricing without calling (and since its almost 11PM here I don't think I'd have a bunch of luck.. :lol: ) but most answers I got said it'd cost closer to $900-1200 for the typical 1000lb horse. :shock:


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

Tianimalz said:


> Yes, yes I was wrong, sorry I was just reciting what I had heard during chit chat  I can't get an exact pricing without calling (and since its almost 11PM here I don't think I'd have a bunch of luck.. :lol: ) but most answers I got said it'd cost closer to $900-1200 for the typical 1000lb horse. :shock:


She might have known the person who does it and got a deal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

LadyDreamer said:


> She might have known the person who does it and got a deal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know she got it from word of mouth, I'll prolly ask when I see her again as its a good thing for a horse owner to know about even if hopefully I don't need the exact information for many more years.


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

Here we have renduring plants. You call, they come pick it up. They charge a fee of $250.00 no matter what weight. The deceased animal is used for fertilzer, makeup , what ever you can think of.
Is there anything like that in the US?


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## OutOfTheLoop (Apr 1, 2012)

At an auction here in tn last night they were running loose 2&3 yr olds through and they were selling from 3-15$ .....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

OMG ! soo very sad  not for the buyer I guess.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Wow, this thread tooooook offffff!!


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

We have rendering plants here too Spotted. There used to be more "dead trucks" but when I put my old mare down 2 years back I had to search hard to find one. Ended up burying her on my property, but the truck was going to cost $250. That's on top of the $200 euth charge. Personally I would use a bullet and bury either of my current two before sending them to slaughter, however there are people who either don't have a problem with it or who need that $200 in their pocket as opposed to laying out $450. 

I don't like slaughter for my personal horses and I'm not going to lie, I do think it's heartless to send an animal you've owned for X amount of years to slaughter, HOWEVER it's not my place to tell someone else what they can or cannot do with their property. I may not like it and I will say something if I'm irritated or tired enough, but it's not my call. Nor to I want someone else telling me what I can or cannot do with my horses. 

I've been offered several very low priced horses... I keep turning them down even though right now I have the means (and thankfully enough hay for a year) to take care of them because I need to be able to take care of my two first. It's going to get nasty for a lot of horses this winter, especially if we have a bad one.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Spotted said:


> Here we have renduring plants. You call, they come pick it up. They charge a fee of $250.00 no matter what weight. The deceased animal is used for fertilzer, makeup , what ever you can think of.
> Is there anything like that in the US?


Yes, it costs somewhere in the range of $300-$400. 






OutOfTheLoop said:


> At an auction here in tn last night they were running loose 2&3 yr olds through and they were selling from 3-15$ .....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Every time I have been to New Holland auction, I have not seen the meat guy spend more than $35 per horse.


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

tiger- I agree, people can eat what they want, and do as they wish with the horses. I just don't like what happens in the slaughter, and if it were me I would perfer a bullet, then to go through that. Yes people need the money, I understand.


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## Silent one (Aug 22, 2011)

Really worried now about what is going to happen around here this winter. Several of my friends and I try to step in and take and rehome what we can, last winter was harsh on us and pretty much broke all of us financially. This winter is worse, as work has been slower and finances are much tighter. Not sure how much we will be able to do and I'm afraid this will result in even more need.

For those of you saying there is no glut on the market, and no good quality sound riding horses being given away, I salute you. You are obviously in a better area than I am. I would be happy to see the price of horses increase, if it meant less suffering for them around here. 

I no longer charge anything at all for the horses I rehome. However, what makes it doubly difficult is that I will not rehome them with just anyone that comes along. Sometimes that's just putting them back into the same situation they came from. I've given them to friends, members of the church, friends of the vet's, friends of the farrier's, friends of friends, until I'm out of places to give them. And all of the horses I place are sound and ridable, I can't afford to rescue any other kind, because I'm just a private individual, I can't keep the ones that aren't placeable.

So that means there are a lot of horses I just can't help. OMG, the poor horses I have had to walk away from, and what I've seen at the auctions. These are the things that haunt me.

And while I dreaded the thought of horses going to slaughter, to me it is a much better fate than what I have seen in the fields and at the auction houses. Starvation is such a slow, cruel death.

And kind of off track for this post, but Speed Racer is right. If you have studied economics at all and the rule of supply and demand, you will realize that within a relatively short time, horses will become only available for the wealthy. How sad.


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## Cowboy Ringo (Sep 17, 2012)

AlexS said:


> Horse meat is not in dog food in the US. It has not been for a good while now. Horse meat is eaten by people in different parts of the world.


No crap. It's probably because we dont slaughter horses here right now.
I was referring to when we did or when we start back.
I never mentioned it being in ther eright now.


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## Cowboy Ringo (Sep 17, 2012)

Simple answer is horse slaughter needs to come back.


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## Cowboy Ringo (Sep 17, 2012)

Over the years weve buried prolly 20 horses here in one of our fields.
Legal here...and with a tractor, about a 20 minutes process...


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## Regula (Jan 23, 2012)

Yep, that's the way it works in Europe. Every horse gets issued a passport at birth where the owner has to declare it as a food or a pleasure animal. If it's declared food animal, it has to be medicated according to food animal standards (certain drugs are not allowed at all and others have wait times). Pleasure animals don't have restrictions. When they die, they have to be humanely euthanized by a vet and properly disposed of. That will cost the owner.
During its lifetime, a horse can switch from food to pleasure, but never back. So even if the US were to re-open their own slaughterhouses, they couldn't sell the meat to Europe. So the prices stay down either way.
The market for horse meat in Europe isn't crazy huge either, so I'm pretty sure not accepting US horse meat is not going to drive the European meat prices up at all. The supply from Canadian horses alone is huge.

This is a very cruel way to do it, but I believe we are just seeing the market regulating itself here. As long as a careless breeder / owner / trader can always still sell his mediocre horses for slaughter, he will keep breeding. As soon as feed prices are up and a breeder knows he can't get rid of his animals, not even if he gives them away for free, the breeding will stop. The solution is not "learning to shoot a horse", the solution is THINKING before you buy, whether you will be able to afford the horse you are buying until its death. Even if that means you will actually have to pay for the horse to get euthanized and disposed of.
It is time that the meat market is not being seen as an easy way out to get rid of horses any longer, and it is time that the careless breeding, owning and trading of horses stops. The bad thing is that right now, the horses that have already been born pay the price.

In Europe, most horses are luxury items, and there are much less of them. I could never afford a horse in Europe, but here in Canada I can (on the same wage). Owning a horse, or two, or ten, is not a God-given right. I truly hope that this crisis forces people to reflect on whether they really want the horse they are breeding or buying, because they know it will.be hard to get rid of it again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Regula (Jan 23, 2012)

Silent one said:


> For those of you saying there is no glut on the market, and no good quality sound riding horses being given away, I salute you. You are obviously in a better area than I am. I would be happy to see the price of horses increase, if it meant less suffering for them around here.
> 
> And kind of off track for this post, but Speed Racer is right. If you have studied economics at all and the rule of supply and demand, you will realize that within a relatively short time, horses will become only available for the wealthy. How sad.


You are contradicting yourself here. If by "wealthy" you mean anyone who can afford feed, keep, vet, and a humane death and disposal if needed, then yes, horses should be made available only to the wealthy. It will greatly reduce the suffering, and it is pretty much the only way to reduce the suffering.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

No, that's not what she's saying at all. 

Horses will become elite luxury items, which means anyone who can't spend $20,000 or more on just the purchase price won't be getting one. Since they'll only be bred for specific buyers, the cost of everything having to do with them will also skyrocket.

Even if you can find a less than stellar example for cheaper than that, the cost to maintain it will be the same as that $20,000 horse.

If you manage to find a great deal and buy a Ferrari for less than the Prince of Dubai paid for his, the costs to maintain it won't be cheaper so the only break you got was on the purchase price. It'll be the same way for horses.

I don't know about any of you, but there's no way I can afford $50 bales of hay and feed, $100 just for a trim, or $300 farm calls, with that $300 being only the cost of the vet stepping foot on the property, never mind actually doing any medical treatment.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Thinking about the whole matter of horse slaughter it seems as if the EU are trying in a covert way, to stop horse meat reaching the dinner plate.

Bute has been around for a very long time. Horses in the UK being slaughtered for human consumption has been around for longer. For as long as bute has been around there have been people eating it.
How many have died as a result of getting cancer from this meant? No numbers could be given because no one knows. There are far more carcinogenic problems than a bit of bute in horse meat.


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## StarfireSparrow (Jan 19, 2009)

http://www.unwantedhorsecoalition.org/resources/UHC_Survey_07Jul09b.pdf

Unwanted Horse Coalition

There is a lot of good information here that I think is pertinent to this conversation. Worth the read.


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## WickedNag (Sep 7, 2010)

Cowboy Ringo said:


> Simple answer is horse slaughter needs to come back.


And if slaughter horses are reopened here who is going to buy? Horse meat has not been allowed in dog food since the 1970's and the European market will not buy them. So what do we do with them? There will be not even be enough money made to run a plant imo. Now saying this I am pro slaughter. Think there was a need for it before... now??? 

This is scary as hell to me :-(


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## WickedNag (Sep 7, 2010)

Cowboy Ringo said:


> Over the years weve buried prolly 20 horses here in one of our fields.
> Legal here...and with a tractor, about a 20 minutes process...


I think it is legal in more states than people realize. It everyone would do your research and you may be surprised to find it is legal in your state too.
I don't know where you are from CR but in SD they have guidelines. 

Interested in how you did a hole with a tractor (I board my horses and I don't think his tractor would dig a hole.) Both horses I have had buried on the private farm where I board, were dug with a backhoe I hired.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Wicked, the horses can be rendered and used in other ways instead of just as meat animals. We can use the hides, leather, bones, and keratin in the hooves.

Horse meat may not be listed in pet food, but it's still there in the form of bone meal and meat byproducts. It's just not the main ingredient anymore.

Trust me, if the plants reopen here in the US, the animals will be processed and utilized even if horse meat isn't offered for sale to consumers.


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## WickedNag (Sep 7, 2010)

I hope you are right SR.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Foxhunter said:


> Slaughter of horses for human consumption and transporting of all livestock is far, far tighter than any other country in the world.
> There is nothing inhumane about how the horses are destroyed at all, they really do not know what is happening.


In the UK don't they put the horse down individually in an enclosure? That is not how the USA did it or how Canada & Mexico do it.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Tianimalz said:


> Yes, yes I was wrong, sorry I was just reciting what I had heard during chit chat  I can't get an exact pricing without calling (and since its almost 11PM here I don't think I'd have a bunch of luck.. :lol: ) but most answers I got said it'd cost closer to $900-1200 for the typical 1000lb horse. :shock:


Have her ask what parts of the horse gets cremated. I've seen cremated horse remains & there is no way the whole horse is in that small of a box. I've heard only head, heart & hooves but I don't know for sure because it seems to be a secret.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

WickedNag said:


> I think it is legal in more states than people realize. It everyone would do your research and you may be surprised to find it is legal in your state too.
> I don't know where you are from CR but in SD they have guidelines.
> 
> Interested in how you did a hole with a tractor (I board my horses and I don't think his tractor would dig a hole.) Both horses I have had buried on the private farm where I board, were dug with a backhoe I hired.


 Humane Horse Remains Disposal : The Humane Society of the United States


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## Failbhe (May 8, 2012)

I don't want to derail the thread, but I'm just curious - does anybody know WHY horse meat is no longer allowed as the primary source of protein in pet food? Personally I wouldn't care whether my dogs are eating chicken, beef, or horse, so long as they're happy and healthy.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Failbhe said:


> I don't want to derail the thread, but I'm just curious - does anybody know WHY horse meat is no longer allowed as the primary source of protein in pet food? Personally I wouldn't care whether my dogs are eating chicken, beef, or horse, so long as they're happy and healthy.


Same reason-meds in the meat but not meds given during life, euthanasia meds. It used to be when dead horses were picked up & sent for rendering all parts were used for lots of things. Pets were dying & it was traced to the narcotic in the horsemeat. I'm sure some still gets mixed in.
Big cat places won't take a horse that was PTS by injection.

It's not profitable to use live horses for pet food.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

You can donate your live horse to a big cat rescue. They'll put them down with a bullet or bolt (not sure which) and feed them to the cats.


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## Failbhe (May 8, 2012)

Ok, that makes sense about the euthanasia drugs tainting the meat. Is it just horses that have been euthanized that have been banned though, or is it a blanket ban against all horse meat? That doesn't really make sense to me. If it's being used for human consumption you'd think it would be safe for pets as well. Anyway - derailment finished.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> You can donate your live horse to a big cat rescue. They'll put them down with a bullet or bolt (not sure which) and feed them to the cats.


I would be OK with that if it was done at home (not OK with the bolt though) as I could never send my horses off. I'm with them to the very end.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Failbhe said:


> Ok, that makes sense about the euthanasia drugs tainting the meat. Is it just horses that have been euthanized that have been banned though, or is it a blanket ban against all horse meat? That doesn't really make sense to me. If it's being used for human consumption you'd think it would be safe for pets as well. Anyway - derailment finished.


Horses used for human consumption are not killed with a needle.

Another reason dead horses aren't used for pet food even if they were shot is because there is a strong likelyhood that other meds were administered before death to try to save the horse.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

I know what you mean Natisha, that's my only compunction about that option.


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## Gremmy (Feb 17, 2009)

I have mixed feelings about this. Anybody who has tried to say that only an insignificant number of slaughter-bound horses cross the Canadian and Mexican borders is in for a very nasty shock. In that context I am glad that the issue is no longer being "swept under the rug" with us and Mexico left to clean up the mess so to speak, but I am very concerned about what this means for the horse industry in the U.S. and inevitably up here as well.


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## DimSum (Mar 28, 2012)

I am worried about the horses currently "in the pipeline". I shudder to think of where they will end up now. Here in Michigan the papers are full of starvation cruelty cases, and all the horse rescues I know of are at capacity or close to it. The Michigan Horse Council operates a hay bank by taking donations and helping folks feed their animals on a short term basis but with the cost of hay so high right now...sigh.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

I'm not seeing the excess of horses everyone is talking about and it may be regional - those hit with drought. While we had drought earlier this year, our summer actually finished strong for hay production. But these tend to be short term cycles not an all-over market horrors.

I'm not seeing tons of free horses or cheap horses. When I was looking for a horse a few months ago prices actually seemed to be up from a couple years ago - At least for decently trained horses. And I actually had several people wanting to buy the horse I sold this year and had a choice of homes for him. So much better than in 2008 - 2009 when I had a registered and trained horse that sat on the market for month without a single bite and I was being offered free horses on a regular basis. I see improvement out there overall. Now if you are one of those trying to sell an underweight barely broke 5 year old and its not selling - don't balme it on the market. Its more likely a fault of the product you are selling. Improve it and you will improve your chance of sale.

The reason thousands of horses went to slaughter was because there was a market for slaughter horses. Horses went to that market opening up a demand that breeders could fill. When that market closes up it will become economics 101 - basic supply and demand. The demand will go down so those supplying will eventually decrease production. No need for outside regulation. If people would keep their hands out of trying to regulate this it will naturally balance out. It might take a few years but it will get there.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

MysterySparrow said:


> http://www.unwantedhorsecoalition.org/resources/UHC_Survey_07Jul09b.pdf
> 
> Unwanted Horse Coalition
> 
> There is a lot of good information here that I think is pertinent to this conversation. Worth the read.


Great information in those links. Sadly my computer was resisting loading such a large pdf so I was only able to read the first half of it.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

Cowboy Ringo said:


> Simple answer is horse slaughter needs to come back.



Have you actually read any of this thread? It doesn't matter if slaughter comes back in the US now because no one wants to buy your horsemeat. 

Which is why I say, if you really believe slaughter is necessary then the only long-term solution is to eat horses yourself. If you're so worried that unwanted horses will be left to suffer then create a demand for their meat so that that won't happen.


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## DimSum (Mar 28, 2012)

Cat said:


> I'm not seeing the excess of horses everyone is talking about and it may be regional - those hit with drought.


I hope you're right, and am glad things are good where you are. I did a quick surf on Craigslist here and I found 20+ ads for horses under $500, and 5 for $100 or free :-|


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

I'm curious on the ones for under $500 what are ages and training level? Most of them in our area are +5 years and maybe greenbroke at best with a couple rides. Quite a few only halter broke. That is not a market issue but a product issue.


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## DimSum (Mar 28, 2012)

Cat said:


> I'm curious on the ones for under $500 what are ages and training level? Most of them in our area are +5 years and maybe greenbroke at best with a couple rides. Quite a few only halter broke. That is not a market issue but a product issue.


I'm seeing well broke, started, unbroke, yearlings, should-be-retired...you name it. It's a total buyer's market here. Even in the higher priced horse market there are some smoking deals out there on well broke show horses with points.

It's just plain bad here in Michigan between the (lack of) economy and the drought causing hay to skyrocket. Horses eat up disposable income, so when things tighten up like now with hay being sky high.. it's almost like a perfect storm. The rescue I work with is inundated with people calling looking to place their horses.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

Out of curiosity I checked my mom's craiglist - also in MI. There are a total of 7 horses for sale under $500. A couple minis, a young baby that is a mix of 3-4 breeds, a couple that are light riding only and only one that is trained but a quick sale is needed. Exactly what I would expect to see for under $500 even in an awesome market just because they aren't highly desired. 

Again - might be a regional thing.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Cat said:


> I'm curious on the ones for under $500 what are ages and training level? Most of them in our area are +5 years and maybe greenbroke at best with a couple rides. Quite a few only halter broke. That is not a market issue but a product issue.


My area CL:

3 minis, $200-400. 

3 Miniature horses

No price listed, very probably able to grab for $500. 

7 yr old sorrel quarter mix mare

Filly

Yearling filly

Haffie

2yr old Halfie Filly

TB for $650, likely grabbed for $500. 

TB Mare for sale

7 horses in one ad for $400-600

Horses need homes soon

2 for $600 each

Two Mares For Sale!

4 minis

Miniature Ponies

TB $300

Tb gelding looking for loving home

3 more minis

Miniature horses for sale

$200 pony

Green Broke Pasofino Pony

Mini babies

Miniature Horse Foals






All of those are just within two or three days on my two local CLs.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Most of the lower priced ones on mine are young or middle aged ones that haven't been fully trained... Then there's the horses in their 20s that haven't been ridden in years..


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

GOOD NEWS - they are shipping again. 

I just received this email from the International Equine Business Association: 


Friday European Union officials informed plants in Mexico and Canada that they were ineligible to import cheval (horse meat) to the E.U. produced from U.S. horses unless that had documentation to prove that the animals had been in the country where the plant was located for a minimum of three months. Today, that restriction was lifted. We wanted to share this information with you, although we will apparently not have many other details until later in the week. 

We are glad that what could have been a disaster and an international trade incident has been averted. As we have more information to share, we will. 

If you do not already receive alerts and updates directly and would like to, please input your email address to subscribe on our website at *http://IEqBAssn.org*. Please forward to anyone and everyone you think would need or want to stay informed about this evolving situation, and post on all horse industry networks and bulletins. 

In the meantime, we are trying to update and ensure the accuracy of our growing list of businesses and individuals who are involved in the international commerce of horses for processing, as well as those who look forward to participating in the industry here in the United States as FSIS finishes its work and issues initial grants of inspection in the next few months. Please contact me if you want to make sure you are included and we that we have your correct contact info at [email protected], 307-680-8515, or message me privately on Facebook at *http://facebook.com/sue.wallis52.*


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Yep, the dumps are once again open for business. Load up the trash.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Wait.
If meds and such are not meant to be used in horses that people eat, how does horse slaughter help wih unwanted horses? Wouldn't most horses have had something in their lives that makes them I eligible for human consumption? Are they tested and weeded out at the rendering plant?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I am confused about that too DA. I thought that was the purpose of feed lots, so the horses are held for whatever amount of time is required to get the meds out of their system. 

I've seen rumors during these past few days (nothing substantiated, just peoples thoughts) that some shippers were just sending horses, claiming they had come off a feed lot when in fact they were just picked up at auction. 

Maybe they put something in place to monitor this more closely? 







natisha said:


> Yep, the dumps are once again open for business. Load up the trash.


I agree with this sentiment. It sucks. But until we can change the world, it's a necessary evil.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this statement "Friday European Union officials informed plants in Mexico and Canada that they were ineligible to import cheval (horse meat) to the E.U. Produced from U.S. Horses unless that had documentation to prove that the animals had been in the country where the plant was located for a minimum of three months." mean that if the horses are kept in the country where the plant is located for three months the meat will be accepted by the EU? If that's the case it makes me question how worried they are about long term build up of meds in the horses..


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## WickedNag (Sep 7, 2010)

DancingArabian said:


> Wait.
> If meds and such are not meant to be used in horses that people eat, how does horse slaughter help wih unwanted horses? Wouldn't most horses have had something in their lives that makes them I eligible for human consumption? Are they tested and weeded out at the rendering plant?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Certain steriods and bute are never to be given to a horse that is going to be consumed according to the EU but they must have decided it is ok again now as they are again accepting our horses.


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## Strawberry4Me (Sep 13, 2012)

Wow, okay, there are a few things I want to address. Tiny, I was more half way joking about getting rid of unwanted people. And the ones I was refering to are not elderly or diabled people, just perfectly capable people who live off of our tax money while not working a day in their lives. They are useless and a waste of money, in a world where we cant afford to feed ourselves. We definitely can't afford to feed our lazy neighbors either. No, sorry, I don't want to be an advocate for grandma slaughter. 

Now this whole bute thing... Are people in the U.S. the only people who use bute and other chemicals on horses? They aren't refusing Mexican and Canadian horses? Certainly Canadians don't medicate their horses [insert sarcasm font here] There is something more to the story here.


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## Gremmy (Feb 17, 2009)

The U.S. does not produce nor export horse meat at this time - the issue wasn't so much the drugs in their body as it was the lack of documentation for their medical histories.


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## Strawberry4Me (Sep 13, 2012)

So do other countries have better documentation? Do they have a system for this that we have yet to discover? Why are they not sharing so called system of documentation so that we can get things on the right track?


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## crimsonsky (Feb 18, 2011)

a bit of a different point to take - how do we go about having horse meat sold for human consumption in the US then? that would solve some problems, no?


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