# What are the possibilities of Frame on both?



## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'd say they both have it. 

The paint most definitely, the mare, I'm 98% positive due the white on her face above the eyes.
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## equinelvr (May 7, 2012)

So, if I am reading correctly, should I decide to breed my mare, I should not breed her to this paint. Doesn't breeding frame to frame raise the possibilites of a foal death?


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

If you breed frame to frame (N/O to N/O), there is a 25% chance that the foal will receive frame from both parents, resulting in O/O. Homozygous frame is lethal. 

I wouldn't chance it based on looking at them. However, the test for frame is all of $25. Save yourself the worry about finding another stud if your heart is set on him and test your mare. If she happens to be N/O, choose someone else because I wouldn't risk that. If your mare is N/N, have at it with whoever you choose to breed to.

But as an example, this is my mare. She only really has this blaze and a small hind sock and she is N/O.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

^^^ yes. Just have the testing done.
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## equinelvr (May 7, 2012)

Definitely having the test done! I have bred this mare once before to a buckskin and came up with this bay, but with the risk, I am gonna get that test off in the mail ASAP. Thank you all for your help! I actaully own the stallion, just debating of possibilities at this time. In my opinion, so worth the 25 dollars to know for sure.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

I would test the stallion also in the event that you stand him to outside mares. It would be prudent to warn other mare owners if he is N/O.


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## equinelvr (May 7, 2012)

Poseidon said:


> I would test the stallion also in the event that you stand him to outside mares. It would be prudent to warn other mare owners if he is N/O.


Very good point, thank you for pointing that out!..would hate for any mare or owner to lose a foal!!


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## equinelvr (May 7, 2012)

Poseidon said:


> I would test the stallion also in the event that you stand him to outside mares. It would be prudent to warn other mare owners if he is N/O.


just pulled hairs on both the mare and stallion and they are in the mail to UC Davis....should know in a week or so for sure if they both have it!Thanks for the help all....would never want to intentionally breed a chance of a dead foal!
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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

equinelvr said:


> Definitely having the test done! I have bred this mare once before to a buckskin and came up with this bay, but with the risk, I am gonna get that test off in the mail ASAP. Thank you all for your help! I actaully own the stallion, just debating of possibilities at this time. In my opinion, so worth the 25 dollars to know for sure.


OT, but I'll take that bay off your hands in a heartbeat! ;-) Nom!!
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## equinelvr (May 7, 2012)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> OT, but I'll take that bay off your hands in a heartbeat! ;-) Nom!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks!! He is my little brat child  but I love him.....he was barely 2 in that photo....he is almost 4 now.
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## equinelvr (May 7, 2012)

That was a suprise, I just got the e-mail from UC Davis and both the mare and Stallion tested N/N for Lethal White Overo Gene!


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ummm...WoW. *scratches head*
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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

The mare doesn't surprise me, but I would have put money on the stallion having frame. I guess I still have more to learn ;-)


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Interesting. I'd wonder if your stallion would come up as splash then.


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## Samhwain (Oct 24, 2012)

the bottom horse looks like a strict Tobiano. However the belly spot could be an indicator of Splash or frame and because Tobiano does _not_ cause face white it's entirely possible they carry another paint gene ( sabino being most common for face white, splash, or frame overo being a possibility ) 


your mare looks like a minimal splash or minimal frame overo. have her genetically tested and don't breed her to another paint unless you know for sure 100% that the breeding will not cause an OO foal to be conceived.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Samhwain said:


> your mare looks like a minimal splash or minimal frame overo. have her genetically tested and don't breed her to another paint unless you know for sure 100% that the breeding will not cause an OO foal to be conceived.


Both horses were genetically tested and are negative for frame.


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## equinelvr (May 7, 2012)

I thought for sure the stallion was also going to come up positive! So now he has tested negative for lethal white and 'negative' for chimerism (no evidence found) but doesn't mean he still can't be chimeric. 

I may do a full work up on him for future use if I decide to use him as a stallion for outside mares. Knowing what genes he has will be helpful when breeding other mares, but my main concern was the saftey. 

I would never breed knowing there could be issues (other than the normal risks).

I think I may breed him to my mare, but have not decided 100% yet. I am interested to see what the offspring would be like. She is stronger where he is weaker and it may be a good balance.


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