# Help! My equitation is horrible



## SKB1994 (Sep 28, 2014)

I haven't seen videos of myself riding in a long long long time, nor had a lesson in at least 3 years. Everyone around me says I'm a really good rider, so I just assumed I was fine and went with it. One of my friends offered to take a video of me riding because I mentioned that the horse felt to be a little bit off at the trot. So she did. Can't figure out whats wrong with the horse so I got off him and put him away. I assume its his thrush that I've been treating. 

But the videos, oh god the videos. My equitation is HORRIBLE. Total trainwreck. Like why on earth are people having me ride their horses for them? My lower leg is out of control, just flapping in the breeze. My hands move every time I do the rising trot. My left heel is sneaking up frequently. I'm wholeheartedly embarrassed by how I'm riding in these videos... I don't even want to post them. But, for the sake of learning and getting better till I can afford lessons... critique and advice is very much appreciated. I already know I look like crap. I thought my heels were down. I was trying to keep my lower leg on and I thought I was doing a good job.. guess not. :shock:


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

He is goose-stepping in the back. (Flattening Out his foot for a period, then lowering it)

Your hands are my only crit. Work on loosening your shoulders and elbows so they don’t move up and down with your body. There is no need to hold them so wide, either.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

The reason your heels are going up is because you are not rising from your knees, but from the balls of your feet. If you want to really fix that, practice posting without stirrups. It's agony at first but boy will it help.


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

I have found that when I have several issues to work on, it helps me to take 5 minutes each to concentrate on just one issue at a time, then put them all together. I do have difficulty multitasking and with focus, so that is how I have worked out for myself to improve. I work at it until I am not thinking about it.

I had trouble keeping heels down until I started stretching regularly on a step, dropping my heels while standing on the balls of my feet on the edge of the step. Doing this several times a day, it didn't take long for it to be natural when I was riding.


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## Jolly101 (Jul 2, 2018)

If you have a safe horse to work with, I recommend warming up stirrupless walk, rising trot and canter. I always do this with my personal horses and I find It helps muscle memory in the long run. Stirrupless work in general really helps tone the proper muscles for riding. 

For your hands, I’m noticing a few things you could fix. Your hands need to be lifted and together. Your elbow also has the tendency to stiffen at times when you post ( causing your hands to come up and in opposition of the horse’s head movement). 

Try hooking your index fingers under the pommel and keeping them there while you rise the trot, so you are able to feel how much your elbow needs to open and close. 

Occasionally, I noticed your hands became uneven, although It was hard to tell in this video. I’ve used a crop under the thumbs in the past for this. You won’t be able to move one hand higher or lower than the other, but It is a good exercise for awarness on when hands get uneven and makes you steer with your seat and leg.


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## AndyTheCornbread (Feb 3, 2019)

Don't knock on yourself so hard, I would give body parts to be able to ride that well. My right leg is partially paralyzed from being in the Marine Corps so certain muscles in it that control fine movement don't work correctly. You can't tell so much when I walk but you can definitely tell when I ride for a while as my right leg gets floppy. I have had to teach my horses to ignore things that aren't truly queues coming from that side and to keep there trots to a level at which I can sit them vs post them. It's great you want to ride better but don't forget to celebrate what you already do well.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

this is not your horse, right? it seems that you are struggling to find your 'place' in that saddle. I think that it probably has a balance that is totally foreign to you. It looks like it might have a downward slope feel to it, and this is making your balance a bit tentative; struggling against a feeling of falling foward. Thus, your lower leg comes back, and your upper body has to be sort of 'held' back, which makes you stiff and then your hands are not independent.


I have found that some saddles are so different in balance, (and this can be due to stirrup bar placement, or the fit of the saddle making it oriented uphill or downhill) that my riding skill drops down several notches , just like that.


I had a lovely saddle that was SO comfy at the walk, was beautifully made. But, darn it all, I could not for the life of me post well in it. It turned our my friend, who is also fat like me, had the same issue. I figured out that the wide twist, which made it comfy to just sit in, pushed my knees outward, and made it hard for me to get up and over my knees for posting. I sold the saddle to a thinner person, who loved it.


so, the twist can also be a factor in how easily a person can adapt to any saddle.


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## SKB1994 (Sep 28, 2014)

Thanks for all the feedback guys! I plan to reply to everyone individually when I’m home this weekend.

I did feel as though he was off behind while on him. Any ideas what causes this “goose stepping”? His owner and I are working diligently on the thrush. It was easily the worst case I’ve seen in years.

This is not my horse, I’m exercising him for a friend. He is quite lovely to ride, very safe. He’s still rude on the ground, but he’s getting better. I can definitely work on my position with him. The first time I got on him I was tickled by how fun it was to ride such a large horse (Hawk and the other horses I ride are all in the 14hh range). Hawk is too squirrely to ride without stirrups in my opinion, but I’ll practice the best I can with him as well. 

The saddle has been mentioned as a possible issue. I’m thinking the gullet is too wide and plan to adjust it to MW vs the wide that is currently in it as I think it is changing the fit just enough to throw me off. It has a nice narrow twist and is supremely comfortable. I ride like this in all saddles, not just this one so I definitely think it’s my position more than the saddle itself causing the issue. It is new to me, bought I a few weeks ago right before Hawk got injured so I’ve barely ridden in it. 

Im surprised most people are mentioning my hands as opposed to my floppy lower leg. I plan to actively work on all aspects of my riding. I really want to get better, I’ve definitely plateaued or even gotten worse while I’ve been in school this past year and a half. I’m finishing my internship in the next 8 weeks and will have tons of time to ride after that! Once I finish school I should be able to afford regular lessons, which I’m very much looking forward to!


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

Transitions between two-point/sitting/posting will improve the leg. Just two-point and over poles as well. Post with no stirrups, one stirrup, switch stirrups, ect. As someone mentioned, the post is a motion from the knee. Like your whole lower leg is nailed to the side of the horse with only the knee hinged. Don't try so hard to post, just let yourself get tossed up, then sit down gently. Use your core strength.

Seat exercises will also help. The lunge line is best, but you can do them alone on a solid horse. Leg swings, swinging forward and back from the hip. Don't move your butt, only the thigh and lower leg. Can do this at the walk and trot. Reins can be knotted for hands free, or in on hand and doing arm circles at the same time. Depends on the horse. Warning, the leg swings will hurt if you have tight hips.

To quiet the hands, hold onto the mane, saddle, neckstrap, ect, or push your pinkies into the mane. By having the hand anchored, you are forcing yourself to move the elbows and let the arms move as you rise the trot. Think about the reins ending at your elbows, not the hands. Use your elbows and shoulders more than the hands and wrists.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

SKB1994 said:


> Thanks for all the feedback guys! I plan to reply to everyone individually when I’m home this weekend.
> 
> I did feel as though he was off behind while on him. Any ideas what causes this “goose stepping”? His owner and I are working diligently on the thrush. It was easily the worst case I’ve seen in years.
> 
> ...


I did not mention your legs because they are not that bad. You were not standing on your toes, swinging them, nor had them shoved in front of you. They looked relaxed. That (to me) is better than an “obviously shoved down” heel. Not for hunt seat, but for someone riding in a dressage saddle.....


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

It isn't your leg being floppy as much as it is the motion is originating from the wrong part. That was mentioned in a couple of posts. A floppy leg is one that is doing none of the work and being tossed around. That isn't pretty to watch. But preferable to a frozen or as an instructor called it a wooden leg that never moves with the horse but is instead frozen in place while the seat slides all around in the saddle as the body is tossed to and fro by the movement of the horse.


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## SKB1994 (Sep 28, 2014)

Jolly101 said:


> If you have a safe horse to work with, I recommend warming up stirrupless walk, rising trot and canter. I always do this with my personal horses and I find It helps muscle memory in the long run. Stirrupless work in general really helps tone the proper muscles for riding.
> 
> For your hands, I’m noticing a few things you could fix. Your hands need to be lifted and together. Your elbow also has the tendency to stiffen at times when you post ( causing your hands to come up and in opposition of the horse’s head movement).
> 
> ...


I took your advice about my hands, tried all of those exercises mentioned. I think that helped a lot with getting the feeling of my elbow opening and closing.


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## SKB1994 (Sep 28, 2014)

tinyliny said:


> this is not your horse, right? it seems that you are struggling to find your 'place' in that saddle. I think that it probably has a balance that is totally foreign to you. It looks like it might have a downward slope feel to it, and this is making your balance a bit tentative; struggling against a feeling of falling foward. Thus, your lower leg comes back, and your upper body has to be sort of 'held' back, which makes you stiff and then your hands are not independent.
> 
> 
> I have found that some saddles are so different in balance, (and this can be due to stirrup bar placement, or the fit of the saddle making it oriented uphill or downhill) that my riding skill drops down several notches , just like that.
> ...


This is not my horse, Im being paid to exercise him tho! Seeing the video of my riding had me thinking "**** she saw me ride like this and was willing to pay me to do it?!" He is a QH and built downhill as well. 

The saddle is new to me too. I bought it a few weeks ago because it was adjustable and a really good price for a Bates. I'm definitely getting used to it. But I can stand up straight in the stirrups quite comfortably without falling forward or back. I think I have a tendency to "fall forward" and try to get into a jumping/galloping position.


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## SKB1994 (Sep 28, 2014)

QtrBel said:


> It isn't your leg being floppy as much as it is the motion is originating from the wrong part. That was mentioned in a couple of posts. A floppy leg is one that is doing none of the work and being tossed around. That isn't pretty to watch. But preferable to a frozen or as an instructor called it a wooden leg that never moves with the horse but is instead frozen in place while the seat slides all around in the saddle as the body is tossed to and fro by the movement of the horse.


As someone surrounded by Hunter riders, I'm used to seeing a stable lower leg and thats what I aspire to have I guess. :shrug: I'm glad to know its not as big of a deal as I thought tho! :smile:


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## SKB1994 (Sep 28, 2014)

Thanks so much for all the feedback guys!

So this is unusual. As it turns out these exercises worked, but my knees don't even touch the saddle anymore when I put my heels down and calf on the horse? My friend at the barn said my lower leg was barely swinging at all.. but is my knee supposed to be off the saddle entirely?

Letting the horse "bump" me up to post felt very strange. I felt like I was barely getting off the saddle at all and it was a wonky feeling for sure. I'll work on it more.

I need to buy shorter leathers I think for my jumping saddle, they've stretched very unevenly. Something I've been working on myself for the last few months as ya'll know from a previous post. 

I rode both horses (the bay from the video and my own) yesterday. I actually feel more secure than I thought in my jumping saddle. Haven't ridden in it in a few months. I can sit quite easily provided I let Hawk horse jog rather than extended trot. It was much harder to stand up in the stirrups like some others suggested in my jumping saddle. I felt like I was being pitched forward and couldn't really stand up straight, but was in more of a jumping position. I suppose a jumping saddle would be inclined to put me into a jumping position tho, right?

I did the same exersise in the dressage saddle on the bay horse from the video I posted. I was able to stand up straight quite easily. Both horses are downhill to some degree thanks to their QH lineage. The bay horse is rather sour overall, especially to strong leg contact, I'm trying to ride him "tactfully" since I don't really want to know what happens when he explodes. Its a work in progress. I definitely don't feel 100% safe on him, he's already pretty nasty tacking him up. Quiet enough to ride but I feel like theres a ticking time bomb underneath me and I don't want to pick a fight with him. Likes to be ridden off mostly voice and seat, gets ear pinny and "sticky feet" when I apply more leg than he likes.

The saddles I have are a Circuit "Full contact deluxe" close contact saddle, and a Bates Caprilli dressage saddle. Being name brands I'd expect them to be decently balanced, no? I'm not sure, I'm new to English riding. I've been a western rider all my life.


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## SKB1994 (Sep 28, 2014)

AndyTheCornbread said:


> Don't knock on yourself so hard, I would give body parts to be able to ride that well. My right leg is partially paralyzed from being in the Marine Corps so certain muscles in it that control fine movement don't work correctly. You can't tell so much when I walk but you can definitely tell when I ride for a while as my right leg gets floppy. I have had to teach my horses to ignore things that aren't truly queues coming from that side and to keep there trots to a level at which I can sit them vs post them. It's great you want to ride better but don't forget to celebrate what you already do well.


Thank you so much! As an aspiring "pro" rider I guess I'm harder on myself than I need to be. I don't show currently, but I'd like to ride and train professionally down the road.

Thank you for your service to our country. You guys certainly don't get thanked enough for what you've done for us all.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

could the Bay horse have a saddle fit issue?


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## Filou (Jan 16, 2014)

Yes, it's normal for your knee to be off the saddle when your lower leg and thigh are on. Eventually your body will relax into the correct position over being forced into it and your knee will relax to the side of the saddle.


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## SKB1994 (Sep 28, 2014)

tinyliny said:


> could the Bay horse have a saddle fit issue?


Possibly. But he pins his ears about everything. Kicks when you brush him. Tries to bite when you walk past him on crossties. Bites when you have a treat. Breaks crossties for fun. Tries to get away when you try picking his feet. Rears when you ask him to step back before you grain him. Etc etc. I think it’s mostlt attitude. He is better when you’re confident. If you act at all afraid of him he gets worse. He’s gotten a lot better on the ground with me. Also, he’s not that nasty as long as you scratch his neck and take your time doing up hid girth. I think it’s a learned behavior from when he was a school horse.


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

SKB1994 said:


> As someone surrounded by Hunter riders, I'm used to seeing a stable lower leg and thats what I aspire to have I guess. :shrug: I'm glad to know its not as big of a deal as I thought tho! :smile:


I disagree that your leg isn't that bad. You aren't star-fishing, but your leg is not under control. Each post, your leg is bouncing and your toe is down for a portion of the stride while your heel draws up. That is bumping the horse with every stride and gives them a good reason to be sour to the leg. It is also not a secure leg.

The leg shouldn't be braced and never moving, but it needs to be still in relation to the horse. You have a leg like that on a sensitive horse and you will be on your butt quick. It's also going to dull an already dull horse. You also can't give subtle cues when the leg is moving constantly. How is the horse to know what's a cue and what's an aid?

Some hunters might ride with a braced leg, but they shouldn't be. You also don't want the jelly ankles you see on some dressage riders. Watch some videos of Big Eq riders. You can see their leg is still on the horse's side, but still moves to accommodate changes in gait and position.


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## SKB1994 (Sep 28, 2014)

ApuetsoT said:


> I disagree that your leg isn't that bad. You aren't star-fishing, but your leg is not under control. Each post, your leg is bouncing and your toe is down for a portion of the stride while your heel draws up. That is bumping the horse with every stride and gives them a good reason to be sour to the leg. It is also not a secure leg.
> 
> The leg shouldn't be braced and never moving, but it needs to be still in relation to the horse. You have a leg like that on a sensitive horse and you will be on your butt quick. It's also going to dull an already dull horse. You also can't give subtle cues when the leg is moving constantly. How is the horse to know what's a cue and what's an aid?
> 
> Some hunters might ride with a braced leg, but they shouldn't be. You also don't want the jelly ankles you see on some dressage riders. Watch some videos of Big Eq riders. You can see their leg is still on the horse's side, but still moves to accommodate changes in gait and position.


Just because others said it isn't as bad as I thought doesn't mean I don't plan to work incredibly hard to fix it. I feel like the rides I put in over the weekend helped a lot. Once I get shorter leathers for my jumping saddle I'll be working on my 2 point as well.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I thought about this thread today, out riding trails. I kept my lower leg quieter. good to think about this. helps with stability.


what is 'starfishing'?


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## SKB1994 (Sep 28, 2014)

tinyliny said:


> I thought about this thread today, out riding trails. I kept my lower leg quieter. good to think about this. helps with stability.
> 
> 
> what is 'starfishing'?


Starfishing is common with barrel racers, where the rider allows their seat to fly out of the saddle with their legs way off the horse kicking.


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

Yea, that's the most coming example of star fishing. Another is beginners who post from their feet, their legs fly out and forward, and this hand come up as the seat falls back.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Equitation is extremely important if you're riding in an equitation class at a show. Otherwise, it is very rigid and forced and almost, incorrect for lack of a better word. I see a relaxed quiet rider. Your legs are not flapping, you're moving them. Look at some of the top riders in different disciplines, it's not about proper equitation it's about effective riding. Equitation carries over but there's way too much of a focus on it, great early on but then I think because these things are drilled into our head we place too much importance on them. They are fundamentals, but fundamentals can be tweaked to suit situations. For example, I had a trainer specifically tell me to hold my hands far apart on my green mare, a trick that she had found very helpful in many years of training green horses. Are you happy and the horse happy? Great! Step up- is your riding quiet and effective and the horse moving responsively and carrying itself properly? Also great! Unfortunately hunter/jumpers as an in general is way more about "looking pretty" then proper riding. You can't jump a 5 foot fence without knowing how to *really* ride, but unfortunately a lot of that is lost in the lower levels. I'm not surprised you are surrounded by that, since that's where the focus comes from. I learned to ride in that style and regret it as I'm often too rigid and perched above the horse and have worked very hard to relearn *riding* vs *equitation*. Like I said watch the pros- if you want to do hunters, watch hunters of course! But also watch other disciplines, regardless of which you want to focus on. If you become a good rider it's easier to tweak a specific body part later on- hey my legs are moving a lot, I'll focus on keeping them quiet! Jumping too, most of what you're watching is actual jumping in those disciplines, you aren't jumping, a longer stirrup effects how your leg sits. Lots of things to keep in mind.

My equitation is horrible. I won't ever win a class. But I can ride green and difficult horses in lots of different situations and put training rides on other peoples show horses. I've had jobs riding horses. I'll never be asked to finish a show horse, but that's fine with me. Lots better then looking pretty and just sitting there. I always think of polo players as the best example, horrible equitation but boy can those folks ride!

There's stuff you can work on, there's stuff EVERYONE can work on. And lessons are great but don't be too hard on yourself. Take them when you can and just keep on riding lots and lots of different horses. And do get a video or a critique from an experienced friend, it's always good to have something in mind to work on with or without an instructor.

Oh and do keep on posting here too! It helps us all learn!


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

Equitation is more than looking good or winning classes. It's about how you sit on the horse and being effective. Equitation is not being stiff or rigid. Your leg should hang down from your hip into your heels, not because it looks good, but because it is the most effective position for communication in the majority of circumstances. You elbows needs to be elastic to maintain clear lines of communication. If the hand is subtly bumping the mouth with every stride, the horse isn't going to trust the bit. They don't trust the bit, they won't go forward. You sit correct because it allows the horse to move their back. Sit crooked or heavy or out of balance and they can't use their back. Spanish Riding School riders don't even get taken off the lunge line or given stirrups or reins until they are able to sit independently on the horse 100% of the time. They are on the lunge line for a year or more. "Learn to do nothing before you can do something".

It's certainly possible to be a quiet, effective rider with less than ideal equitation, but IME it's usually the opposite. Usually you will see a rider with good equitation who is also effective, though more commonly you find poor equitation with ineffective riders (because the horse world is dominated by amateurs. Just how it is.)

Form follows function. There's a reason equitation has evolved as it has, ubiquitously across disciplines.

Explaining away equitation with examples of pros is folly. More often than not, they have excellent equitation. When you're going around a GP course, they can afford to be less than picturesque because they have already mastered their equitation and can adapt to given themselves an edge. But if only 1/10 riders in a class of pros has eccentric equitation, that still says something. We can't all be Charlotte or Beezie, but that's no reason to start out trying to be Richard Spooner.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Oh I completely agree with you (and well written!), but equitation as you describe it and equitation as many people see it aren't quite on the same page. I don't at all intend to point the OP away from bettering herself or say it's not important to ride as properly (kindly and effectively) as possible. I think it's more important to focus on equitation as it truly is (which you described so well) vs what other people say it is and to keep that difference in mind. Quiet hands for example follow the horse and are not rigid in one place. But don't both meet the definition of quiet? As with most things, better to do it properly if you're going to do it!

The problem I find with teaching is people (teachers and students) focus soo hard on getting something like body position right it comes at a cost of feeling the horse and moving with the horse- and of course riding and understanding the horse. Riding with no stirrups or reins on the lunge one can work on proper equitation- WHILE still accomplishing those far more elusive goals. Not all teaching programs are created equal and I think the mindset, while not necessarily incorrect, has the wrong emphasis even if well intentioned.. not all of us can learn at the Spanish Riding School! *Riding properly should never be less important then a form as written on paper* They do go together, absolutely, but they are not the same thing.

I think where the OP is at of having a solid foundation (I assume, but she obviously has the basics as well as a knowledge of what she needs to improve on and how), right now her teaching has been coming from the horse and learning to feel and to follow and when to lead, etc, that's probably a very good focus for her to have/have had to build off that foundation, and now that she has that added experience she can tweak things that have "fallen to the wayside" and incorporate some exercises to get better leg control and posture. I think she's definitely on the right path. And, obviously very dependent, but I think often a break from instruction can be very beneficial after one has reached a certain point. Practice on your own then supplement an occasional lesson to build on that.


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## SKB1994 (Sep 28, 2014)

I love that this has turned into a discussion of form vs function so to speak. It’s been very informative for me and I’m sure it is for everyone else reading as well.

Surprisingly despite my less than ideal equitation, I’m generally pretty ‘sticky’ and can ride just about any horse in any situation and keep calm control. Perhaps the horses I ride are just very generous, but I’d say I do alright. I would agree that I’m a relaxed rider, perhaps too relaxed but I do want to improve! 

I ride a variety of seats, I’d like to get into eventing but I’m surrounded by hunter riders who have those incredible lower legs that I envy. I don’t have the money for the hunter circuit up here, and I don’t think my short little Arab cross would do well among all the big money imports. We’re channeling our Teddy O’Connor and going to try evening I think. It all depends on him and if he’s happy and sound at that level.

I follow Denny Emerson very closely, I admire his horsemanship and his approach to fitness for the horse and rider. I absolutely 100% am dedicating myself to get better. I’ve been recently invigorated with the riding bug again, I have been also struggling with motivation to even get on the horse. 

I wish I had access to the schoolmasters and trainers at the Spanish riding school. But I’m a broke emt who spends all my money on board and keeping my horse healthy and happy. Not too much spare change left for trainers and lessons while
I’m commuting 60+ miles a day for my unpaid internship. Definitely not much time to ride. I probably haven’t had a proper lesson in 3 or so years, so things have definitely fallen to the wayside. 

I can’t reiterate enough how much the feedback and advice from all of you means to be. I’m very appreciative! Hopefully I can get another video soon and you guys can tell me I’m improving!


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