# Please Help Me



## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

G'day all and thanks in advance for taking the time to read this!

I got my TB gelding four years ago, and I was very inexperienced (Still am) Anyway, when I got him he was a brilliant ex pony club mount and he had done, Show Jumping, Cross Country and Dressage. At the time I didn't think about riding him properly and I just galloped everywhere and jumped everything in sight, meanwhile Rigger (The horse) developed some very bad habits, Rushing everything, bolting, evading the bit every way he can, disrespect, and the worst would be Jigging. Now I can't ride with other horses because he has to be in the lead, but the other horses have to be where he can see them, and in the end I just end up having a fight over who's boss, and spend most of the ride trying to get him to walk. From what I've read they say to let him choose his pace or something like that but if I do he would just gallop everywhere until we got home. My brother suggested galloping him flat out, but he isn't sure footed and can only gallop in a straight line, or he gets unbalanced which I think is more my problem then his, and recently when we were galloping down the paddock (just for fun) He lost his footing and fell, at the time I didn't think much of it because there was a log truck watching, and I thought if I didn't get up he would stop and see if I was alright, so I got on and cantered back over where we fell, but it has shaken my confidence. I can gallop my brothers horse fine, but not Rigger.
I would like to work on our problems, but I don't know what I'm doing, and I'm thinking of selling him and getting a horse more my level of riding, but who would buy my horse?

If anyone has any advice on what I can do I would really appreciate it if you replied to my thread. I love Rigger to pieces and don't want to sell him, but is it the right move?


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

You need a trainer to help you be able to retrain him. It's not an over night fix. It takes two seconds for them to learn something new, and a long time to unlearn it.

You could sell him, or you could take it as a learning experience and work. I would spend the money on getting a trainer, rather than having to sell him cheap and pay out for a new one.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Lessons may be very helpful. If you are inexperienced you will have the same issues with a replacement horse.


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## gssw5 (Jul 30, 2013)

I suggest you find someone to help you go back to basics with your horse, start with ground work gaining control of his feet on the ground will help you transfer control of his feet from his back.

Then go back to basics on his back. Walk, stop, trot, stop, lope, stop, learn how to control all five body parts head, neck, shoulder, rib cage, and hind end.

You have been letting him make the decisions for far to long and now it is time you make the decisions. A lot of the problems your having will disappear once you become the leader and show him your in charge and worthy of being followed. That does not mean running him into the ground and being rude with the reins and riding aids, it means showing him what you want and rewarding his smallest tries.

If your horse was well trained at one point he still is, he has just gotten used to making decisions. Since you admittedly don't know what your doing seek out help from someone who does, it does not have to be a "trainer", it could just be a seasoned horseman with a lot knowledge. 

If you really think your over horsed no shame there, and someone with experience would probably be able to bring out the best in your horse if you were to sell. But get some help first and see how it goes. All is not lost the well trained horse he once was is still in there, they do not forget their training they just get out of practice.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

Thanks guys!

I have always wanted lessons or a trainer, but I can't afford it.

Sadly he has had over two years of making his own choices and for about 18 months I've been trying to start back at the start, but I've not progressed at all, well I've managed to get him to jump a few logs without rushing but it's rare.

I would ask my aunty to help me. She is very experienced and has started many horses including problem horses, but her new horse has recently got sick, and she is unable to spare time at the moment.

Should I ride him with other horses or wait and focus on walk, stop trot, stop, etc,. And should I do this from the ground or riding?


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

If I didn't get him I would never have progressed with my riding, so I have that to be grateful for.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Honestly, you need a trainer.

If you were to sell him, it would have to be for a very reduced amount and you'd end up spending more trying to get a new one.

There is only so much that we can help you with, not seeing or knowing the horse or your capabilities as a rider.

Two years is fine. I was over horsed and plodded around for two years, got a good trainer and turned out my plod was an amazing school master. 

If your aunt can't help now, wait till she can. For your safety, and his wellbeing too.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

I know but like I said I can't. 

My dad let me have a horse for the farm, and because I was horse crazy...I started out with a plodder which I rode for about 5 years, and I had a book shelf full of my first pony and 21 riding lessons type of books literally you wouldn't find another kind of book in there! Then I started what I called the horse jar and all my money went into to it, after over a year of saving I got Rigger, who hadn't been ridden for six months...His ad said experienced rider, so I don't really know why I was allowed to get him, but I did and I galloped about everywhere, and I did move along from kick into a canter and yank the reins to turn I got to the point I could do lead changes and leg yields, and use my leg aids. But I was lazy and only used them when someone was watching, I would usually let him choose the pace and place to go.


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## gssw5 (Jul 30, 2013)

Clydesdales said:


> Thanks guys!
> 
> I have always wanted lessons or a trainer, but I can't afford it.
> 
> ...



I admire you wanting to start back at the beginning, truthfully though, and I am trying to make you feel bad, 18 months with no progress is like banging your head on a wall and expecting a different result each time.

An experienced trainer/horseman will get results day one, they will be small steps but steps nonetheless. Even if your aunty could spend 1 hour with you once a week, give you some homework and check in once or twice you would get see results. 

Normally I would not suggest doing self help when horses are involved, when the rider has so many problems and little knowledge, but I am going to suggest a book it is by Clinton Anderson Clinton Anderson's Downunder Horsemanship: Establishing Respect and Control for English and Western Rider. It will give you a place to start, establishing boundaries for you horse and teaching you how to be a leader. If you do nothing but the exercises in the book, correctly, you will see a huge change in your horse, and your confidence. Then if you can get your aunty to spend a little time with you maybe everything will fall into place.

The most important thing is keep yourself safe. I would ride in an arena and work on walk, and stop until it is solid and work your way up. No jumping, galloping ect until you have a solid whoa. As for trail riding I am all about trail riding you can practice the same skills on the trail as you can in the arena, after all he needs to know he needs to listen to you wherever you are. But ride with people who are willing to help you and work with you, not just gallop around out of control.

I really recommend getting the book I mentioned above, start with the first exercise and progress, you will gain so much knowledge and understanding it is sure to help you and your horse be safe together.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Lessons need not be expensive. My father also came to realise that shelling out every other week for an hours lesson would keep me out of a hospital bed, or losing money on the animal.

Have you spoken to your father about this? I'm unsure how old you are, but could you pick up chores on a weekend for some pocket money? You sound like you are very serious in resolving this issue, and you need to let him know you can't do it alone. Show him how serious you are.

Depending how quickly you pick it up (and stick with it) will depend on how many lessons you need. But 10 lessons over a few months will give you more benefit than people helping without knowing on the internet.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

All I can say is that lack of balance such that he can only gallop on a straight line means that he is very stiff. stiffness is addressed by bending and by lateral exersizes. 

those can be done on the ground, on a leadline. invest in some videos on how to work a horse on the ground. I suggest Buck Branaman. 

your horse probably has very little real mental connection to the rein, other than as a brake, and even then , he considers it more a thing that inflicts pain as he leans harder on it and resists. So, all of your work for a while should be alway using one rein alone, or one rein with much more contact/effect than the other. get him thinking about each rein and what it means, rather than him thinking out past the pressure of the two reins, which are acting like a wall on his mouth but having no effect on his brain.

the more he move laterally and in circles, the softer he will get, and the more he steps his hind end under his belly to turn or stop (disengaging the hind), the better his balance will become.

and, if you get a very good ONe Rein Stop on him, you will feel better about galloping him, in the future.
for now, I'd not gallop at all. do most all your work at walk and trot.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

I just re-read what I wrote and I haven't explained my problem properly and I think I given you the wrong idea. I've made myself sound like a complete novice! Tonight I will re-type my problem with more detail.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Novice or not, if you're asking for help for these kind of problems, I would seek out a trainer to out you on the right path.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

Okay so I will start with my experience with horses so you get an idea of my riding capabilities.
I've handled more horses from the ground then riding, I have ridden for almost 10 years, but, without an instructor.

My first horse was an old plodder in her Twenty's and I was taught the basics of riding - How to go, stop, trot, canter, how to turn, etc,. I rode her for five years.

I got a horse as a kid to muck around on, Hack about and trail ride, I didn't take my riding seriously as I didn't think I was going to go anywhere with it. 
When my brother got his young horse I helped start him...not with the riding, just ground work, leading, and introducing different objects. When I did ride him it usually included a bucking session and if I stayed on, he would stop and do whatever I asked.

When I brought Rigger he was an ex PC mount, Show-Jumper, Cross Country and Dressage horse. Right from the start he rushed things, and I put it down to his old show days, not really giving it much thought or trying to stop it.
I still wasn't serious with my riding, I enjoyed trail riding, farm work and galloping everywhere...Jumping whatever we could. Meanwhile Rigger developed bad habits, and because I wasn't really riding I didn't know what he was doing due to my carelessness. 
After two years of owning him my sister was given an OTTB and I helped her bring him into riding - once again mainly from the ground. When I did ride him it was over trotting poles and low jumps, leg yields and transitions. It was then I thought I should actually ride Rigger properly instead of galloping about, I take advantage of Riggers training and learn how to ride properly, so I read millions of books and surfed the internet, I soon learned how use my leg aids, lead changes, leg yields, etc,. But Rigger wouldn't do it, he would start to jig and refuse, and he would back up with his head held really high, so I had no control. I thought that I must be doing it wrong, but when I rode my sisters horse or my friends they listened to my signals.

I asked my sister to ride him but he didn't change for her either. After awhile I thought he could be in pain so I got the vet out, she said he was fine, just needed a break. So I gave him six weeks off, and when I got back on he just got worse as soon as I got on he would jig. My sister suggested changing my saddle, which I did and it made a slight difference to my control, I then changed his bit to a lighter one, and he did slow down for a time.

Now whenever I get on he takes off as if I were whipping him or he was scared or in pain. He isn't as bad when riding bareback.

When riding on my own he doesn't jig as much or evade the bit, it's just a rush to get everywhere. If I ride with company the Jigging starts, the bolting starts, evading the bit, and he has to be in the lead, but if he can't see the other horse he holds his head up and jigs sideways, so he is in front but can see the other horse.

I was told to let him choose his pace, so I did and he takes off leaving everyone behind, then jigs when their out of sight, but he won't turn back to them either.
When jumping he jumps as early as possible and as high as he can, then rushes to the next jump and does it again, he nearly always clears them, but I have no control. I can jump my sisters horse without trouble.

I have been given the use of a small paddock which I will ride in for awhile rather then one of our big open paddocks.

I would like to have an instructor, but I can't at the moment. I'm intending to get lessons in the future.

Thanks in advance and I hope I've explained it well enough!


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

Duffy Duck If it were just me I would but I'm from a family of seven and five of us ride, and around here I can get lessons for $50 cheap, times that by five and it would cost 250 per lesson.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

I just skimmed through this, but you need to stop jumping this horse and work on flat work, lots of serpentines, spiraling in and out of circles and plain old basics. Many many circles, transitions, trot poles and not even cantering until this horse is totally listening to you. When you get the trot under control, then I would move to the canter, but every time he speeds up-circle. Do this in your smaller paddock if you do not have a riding ring. You will circle until you are dizzy and think you can not do another…..and keep circling. This will help with balance, provided you make sure he is not dropping him inside shoulder and collapsing into the circle, which starts at the trot.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

Thank-You frankbeans!!!
I will start ASAP...

Another question would moving him into a smaller paddock during the day or night help. The paddock he is currently sharing is pretty big, and my dad thought that if I rotated the paddocks every now and then might help.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Personally, I don't think that is a factor, unless he is hard to catch. I like mine out in a big area-they come in tired. ;-)


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## mrsgrubby (Jul 6, 2014)

I agree with franknbeans.

I would ride him in a smaller area, doing lots of circles, zig zag, direction changes, etc.

Keep him at a walk or trot, and keep his mind busy thinking of what you are doing. Trot and have him come to a complete stop, walk and weave around the area. Work on your leg aids, work on 1 reign stops, work on your posture.

No cantering, just walking and trotting. 

If he tries taking off on you, make him stop, and stand, and then start again.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

Thanks...This is a big help!!:happydance:


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

^^^^What Frank said. 
No jumping especially if you aren't in control. Lots of flat work. One day you just may stand in one place shifting around his front and hind quarters separately. 
If he's raising his head like you said when backing up, it might be that you are pulling back too hard. So try doing it with as little pressure as possible. You may only get a couple good steps with his head down and him relaxed. If tries to evade the bit when you do this, bend his head and move his hind quarters in the opposite direction in a circle until his head comes down, then start backing up again.
I also think you would benefit from group lessons. Someone who can see what you are doing can give you better advice and your horse can learn to focus on you around other horses and riders. Plus group lessons tend to be cheaper. You could also save up to take some local clinics on horsemanship.
Also, I don't know who told you that he needs to find his own pace. Yes all horses have a natural pace, but you should be able to control every aspect of that. He should go as fast as or slow as you want at each gait.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Well, this is a TB we are talking about so you have a quick smart learner on your hands which is always a plus. You spent 18 months letting him get away with murder which is a minus which is not so great. The good news about training issues is they can be solved. 

At my barn we have a very large hay field that I normally haul butt on with my TB. No I probably should not let him do that, but it's fun. I totally get that. Every once in awhile my horse decides he's going to start making some of the decisions on speed and that's when we do a schooling day. Just today we went up there and did just that. About 14 times I asked for trot and got head toss/crow hop/ attempt to grab bit and run. Every time I shut him down and asked again. I stayed consistent in what I wanted, patiently waited him out and on the 15th time got a beautiful deep trot the entire length of the field where he normally runs. My point is, if you have the right tools and your horse understands what you want, these things are easily correctable. 

I agree with the other suggestions, take him into a ring and ride him as effectively as you can. Be extremely clear with your aids, ask very specific things of him and REWARD EVERY TRY. You don't have to wax idiotic over him, just a simple softening of the reins and a "good boy" will do it. Unless he is unlike every other TB, you are riding a quick learner and when bored, an over thinker. Relaxation and rhythm are your friends. You can't get anything meaningful accomplished if he's tense, and you need to take control of the ride through your riding. Your posting should be metronome clear to him. If he speeds up, you keep your rhythm until he finds and matches it. Do lots of walk/trot transitions. Ride squares, circles, spiral in/out, serpentines, trot poles (assuming he understands how to do those properly). 

If you feel his attention start to wander off, you're spending too much time on one thing. Mix it up. Keep him guessing and looking to your for what's next. Ask for something different every 10 strides or so. Be his leader but never forget to be patient and fair in what you are asking. 

As far as the jigging stuff goes, know that tiring out a TB is not really possible, so forget any notion of longing him before riding in hopes of getting his energy level down. It will only make him fitter and harder to ride. Feel free to post video of your rides and we can help you along with things that may or may not be working. Please do wait until you two are on the same page before you ride him in the open again.

Good luck!


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

MyBoyPuck you are an angel at explaining things!!!
I will try film me riding on the weekends. There is not many places I can put my camera in this paddock.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

It depends on what he is learning...food quick...training/schooling gets board very quickly. His age won't affect anything will it....he 17 but that wouldn't make a difference would it?

Flytobecat there is a local man around here who does clinics and lessons, which I'm aiming to do in the future...I gotta save up. He does a two day clinic, following with ten lessons, and you can't do the clinic unless you do the lessons, he isn't cheap, but he is worth it, so I'm saving up and will be able to hopefully early next year.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

Thought I'd give you all an update on our progress.

We have gotten very good at the halt, which was one of the mains things I've been concentrating on. I also done a heap of lunging and I didn't relize that I was getting it wrong; I was shown how to do it properly and it turns out my horse is an expert at it!! 
I'm slowly introducing the canter toward the end of each ride. The first time he rushed and cut corners but I moved back down to a trot and started doing some transitions, then asked for it again, he rushed again so I took him back to a trot and after the fourth try he cantered a full circle twice without rushing or cutting the corners. 
I also moved one of his paddocks mates to another paddock, because this particular horse is a bit of a bully and upset my horse. Since he has been moved my horse has been very relaxed and actually trots up to me when I enter his paddock; he has started grooming his companion which he has never done before, so I'm thinking he is happy.
And I've been bareback riding as-well, and I've found that he is more responsive when ridden bareback. Yesterday I jumped on bareback and bridles in the paddock; usually he bolts but this time he listened to everything I asked and we even cantered a figure eight!!
Would I be alright to go for a trail ride? Or should I wait a bit longer?

Thanks guys for the help you gave me. Any advice is appreciated.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

Another update...

I took Rigger out for a bareback ride in an open paddock yesterday, and he was a different horse!!! Well behaved and listened to every instruction. A couple of times while cantering he tried to run out on me, but I made him canter a figure eight a few times; he got the idea and didn't do it again. He still has a problem with jigging, but I kept him focused on what we were doing; making sure his mind didn't idle and think of home....
I've also been taking him out for walks every morning and lunging each afternoon.

I'm going to continue working with him over summer until I can canter in an open paddock without him rushing or jigging, but then I'm going to sell him and get a horse that suits my riding ability.
I'd like to keep him, but I need a quieter horse and Rigger needs an experienced rider...do you think it's the right thing to do??


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Clydesdales said:


> Another update...
> 
> 
> I'd like to keep him, but I need a quieter horse and Rigger needs an experienced rider...do you think it's the right thing to do??


Only you can answer that, but it sounds like you already know what's the best option for you. Glad to hear you're making so much progress with him. I'm sure he'll make a nice horse for someone.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

Thanks.

I think if I want to move forward...I need to. He's too much horse for me.

I'm going to take him for a ride in a big paddock on Saturday to see how he goes...


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Just be warned, now that you know how to handle a hot horse, and apparently rather good at it, you might actually be bored by a bombproof one, so look at as many horses as possible once you start shopping for a better fit.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

Thanks!

I wasn't going to go completely bombproof, we've already got one of them that my little brother rides, I just need one more for an intermediate rider not an experienced rider!

My aunty is going to help me look and I'm hoping to try as many as possible, as long as it suits my dad schedule. And I'm going to take my time!!


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

I have another problem...not exactly sure if it's something you can help me with, but you might have some ideas.

Anyway now that I decided that I'm going to I'm going to sell my horse a couple of family members have spoken their thoughts...
They reckon it's a stupid idea and I'm selling a really good horse and I won't get another horse as good as him.
I can't seem to explain to them that Rigger is a great horse but not for me. He needs a experienced rider which I'm not and I'd like a horse that I can get on and enjoy, not freak out on and know that I can't handle.
Any ideas of how to explain this to them?


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

Somebody may have already suggested this and it is something even a novice can do.....when he starts to go faster than you have cued him to do, disengage him, make him circle a few times and then head out again. 

If he does it again, repeat as many times as it takes. Make sure he gets that head all the way around almost touching your foot (don't yank it there though). It usually just takes a couple of times and they get the message that they are getting nowhere fast and they are better off listening to their rider. 

Before you ride off you should always flex your horse and check that he will disengage, it is kind of like checking the brakes on a car before driving it.

If you are set on selling him then keep this in your bag of tricks for the next one.


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

I know Clinton Anderson is Western style, but here is a good rundown on disengagement and the steps the horse needs to know for it to be effective. 

Disengaging your Horses Hindquarters with Clinton Anderson | MyHorse Daily – MyHorse Daily


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

Thanks reiningcatsanddogs, I've come a fair way with him and have now ventured out into a big flat open paddock. He will do as he is told and hasn't tried to rush to much, although I haven't given him to many opportunitys where he can. Someone did mention it and works really well. 

I'm still going to sell him because I'd like a horse I can go out and enjoy...rather then know that with my limited experiance and knowledge I will run into the problem again or another one. I'd like a horse that I can enjoy and ride with my other siblings, and not have to hold my horse back while they have a race or start cantering.


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

"I'd like a horse I can go out and enjoy"

I know what you mean. There are a lot of good ones out there and I swear by the "eyes" method, some people say they are the window to the soul and it seems to have worked well with the horses I have ended up with. Is that the only thing I consider, no, but when I find a couple that I am interested in and have to choose, the "eyes" have it!

Look Him in the Eye - Western Horseman

Good luck to you and never stop learning!


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

I'll check it out...I've never actually heard of it. My auntie is going to help me look..thank goodness


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

That is a very good well explained article!! I'm going to print it!! Thanks Reiningcatsanddogs!!


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

You are very welcome and the best of luck to you!


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

Thanks! 

I'm going to take that article out and compare all our horses.!  It will be interesting to see which horse is which. Might explain a few things!


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## nikelodeon79 (Mar 3, 2008)

You don't need to explain it to them. It's your decision. Personally I think it's a good one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

Well one of them happen to be one of my parents so I had to explain it. I asked why he disagreed and he thought I was selling him because I thought he was a crazy horse, but once I told him why he was fine. My brother just doesn't understand why but I don't care what he thinks.

My auntie said she is glad I'm able to make a decision like that and understand that is my problem and not the horses. Which makes me proud because that is a huge compliment from her, as she is like my roll model!


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

Okay I haven't updated you guys for a long time...so I'll do so now.

I've been focusing on ground work and schooling for some time now, and re-considered selling him. Dad has agreed that I need lessons, so I'm looking for either a stable that I can take my horse or a local instructor to come to me, because I want to work on our problems with my own horse. 

He still gets over excited when in a group but he's managable, and he hardly jigs...unless one of the others randomly takes off...but we go straight into some schooling and he calms back down.

I can now ride into our biggest paddock and school him quietly while horses are being ridden in a paddock in his view and he keeps focused. Also he responds to the lightest leg aids I've ever used...with hardly any rein contact..unless we are cantering; I can get him to trot real slow then extended then stop and start at a canter then walk...without any trouble at all.
Our bond has become very strong and he comes to his name or when I enter the paddock...he also follows me like my shadow.

Now I'm going to work on bareback riding.

I've started doing his feet myself regularly and from a horse who would kick me and freak out he now stand quietly and let me go about my job..then we will go swimming in the dam or doze in the sun.

Thanks for all your help....I'm really happy with our outcome!!


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