# Emergency! Personal Locator Beacons?



## gamecock67 (May 26, 2009)

Having recently experienced a serious "wreck" on horseback in the backcountry which resulted in my sustaining seven-(7) broken ribs - some of them were multiple breaks - the question arose as to how would I have gotten help if I had not been able to physically crawl and walk back to camp? I have been researching *Personal Locator Beacons* (PLB) and would appreciate input from anyone who has on-hand and on-the-trail experience with them.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

You can also be located by carrying a hand held GPS or cellphone with GPS capability. They work on the same principle.


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

Speed Racer said:


> You can also be located by carrying a hand held GPS or cellphone with GPS capability. They work on the same principle.


Around here the mountains are bad enough that cell phones don't always work to locate someone. There's also a lot of canyons that you just can't get GPS service either. Cell phones do work in the regards they can at least figure out what the last tower was it had contact with and start a search from there.

I don't use a PLB myself but this discussion does come up on a very regular basis in the state as people go missing. All the search and rescue people say get one, they can find you in a hurry if you do. Arguments against: cost and tin foil hat wearers saying they don't want to be tracked by the guvmint. From a purely saftey standpoint, they can't be beat.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

carry a pack of matches, build a fire, need help faster ? build a big fire. 
How big are these locators and what do they work on? I am familiar with the shipboard ones but they are pretty big. I also imagine as more get on the market more false alarms will be going off causing them to get ignored. I mean when was the last time you saw cops come running at a car alarm ? I guess if someone knows when you left and when you are due back they could get the ball rolling. How about some links to the devices you have researched.


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## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

A buddy of mine has the SPOT locator and it's pretty much junk. Both times he has needed it, it hasn't worked for messaging. As far as GPS's not working in canyons or heavy timber, technology has come a long ways, even in the last couple years. I use GPS for tracking my dogs and they rarely lose signal. And when they do, it's not for very long. I can get a signal even in my house. I am talking about hundreds of hours of constant use. I am also a product tester for Garmin. I won't tell you what brand to buy because my experience is limited to Garmin and one megellan dash mount GPS. All I will say is that a quality Garmin GPS will not lose it's signal, unless maybe you're in a cave. I have never lost a signal on my 62 series hand helds. The transmitter collars will occasionally lose a signal when in the dog box but that's about it.


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

Joe4d said:


> carry a pack of matches, build a fire, need help faster ? build a big fire.
> How big are these locators and what do they work on? I am familiar with the shipboard ones but they are pretty big. I also imagine as more get on the market more false alarms will be going off causing them to get ignored. I mean when was the last time you saw cops come running at a car alarm ? I guess if someone knows when you left and when you are due back they could get the ball rolling. How about some links to the devices you have researched.


Take a road flare along instead. Unlike matches, the wet doesn't bother it.


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## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

Darrin said:


> Take a road flare along instead. Unlike matches, the wet doesn't bother it.


 
Or dip your matches in wax. Then the water won't bother them but they'll still light.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

I'm still wondering how much I would feel like building a fire with several broken ribs :shock:

Don't skiers have to wear some sort of device so you can find them after the avalanche? I don't know if they would work, or if they are to close range.


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## Painted Horse (Dec 29, 2006)

Years ago, I came off a horse who had stumbled into a bog, As the horse thrashed to get free it stepped on my chest breaking two ribs. I had to get back on the horse ( wet and covered in mud) and ride two hours back to my truck and then I had a two drive home before I could go see a doc. It was an absolutely miserable experience. Even if I had been able to use a cell phone and call for help. I'll bet rescue workers would have taken at least as long if not longer to find and retrieve me. Sometimes you just have to cowboy up and take care of your self.

This summer we had a fellow come from Austrialia to hike the Highline trail across the Uintas Wilderness. BearKiller knows the area also. He carried both a PLB and a Cell phone. He got lost and was never located. Search and rescue looked for him for more than 3 weeks and never found him. So carrying these devices doesnt guarantee that you will be found or rescued. They suspect, what ever got him, happened so fast, he had no chance to use the devices. A snow cornice colapse burried him under snow. Crossing a fast moving river and loose your footing and drown. It may be years before somebody stumbles across his remains and determine what happened to him.

Sometimes when accidents happen, You don't have the time or ability to use these high tech devices. A good friend of mine went for a ride on a sunny February afternoon. His horse slipped in some mud, My friend broke his pelvis and ruptured his bladder as he slammed into the saddle horn as the horse went down. Once on the ground, he was never able to get back to his feet. Even though his horse stayed with him. His cell phone didn't work, because he was behind a ridge that shielded him from the tower. About 9pm that night his wife got worried and called the sheriff who came looking for him. They flew by him with a helocopter several times, but never spoted him or his horse. Finally 14 hours after he got hurt, Searchers on ATV's found him laying ont he trail in 16° temps. It took another two hours to get him into a life flight helocopter and rescued to a hospital.

Point is we have chosen a hobby that has the possibility of getting hurt. Each rider will need to access the area he rides and choose for himself the risk that he is willing to accept. Having these devices is better than not having them, But often times having others with you is a much better option. I do ride alone, probably shouldn't, But it is a risk I take and I at least let my wife know where I'm going and when to expect me home.

Some of the placs I ride are 40 miles from the nearest town, Cell signals don't work in a lot of places.









GPS and SPOT signals will probably reach down into the canyons, But cell signals will never reach into places like this.


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## BCtazzie (Jun 7, 2011)

Golden Horse said:


> I'm still wondering how much I would feel like building a fire with several broken ribs :shock:
> 
> Don't skiers have to wear some sort of device so you can find them after the avalanche? I don't know if they would work, or if they are to close range.


Avy beacons are only good if A) your friends know how to use them and B) you have it turned on and C) your buried or playing marko polo

They only pick the flux if you are 50m away (I think the new ortovox is 80m) from the person/ beacon your trying to find. they then count you down to where the person is, but still if it's a deep burial then that is a whole heap of other issues. But you still need a start point for a search, last seen point or following cues (skis, glove, some over point of clothing equipment).you gotta get close enough to get it to work.

With the spot, we had a major incident here in 2008. The survivors activated it and the signal goes to Dallas Tx first then up to the RCMP who then call PEP and then RCMP call SAR, who then had to call members. There was 45 minute delay between Dallas calling the RCMP. If that incident wasn't as bad as it was, maybe we could have brought more home alive, maybe not.

If it was a major bleed on a hike or ride accident then that 45 minutes has taken a HUGE chunk out of the golden hour. Good weather, we can't get a heli up and manned in that time frame. I wish things moved quicker, but it doesn't.


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## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

Bearkiller - that is too cool that you are a tester for Garmin. I LOVE playing with my Garmin - it is an eTrex Venture HC - not super high tech but I love it to map where I have been, how fast I am going and top speed, etc. Way too much fun.

Wow - you guys are some tough old buzzards. Y'all are scaring the bejeesus out of me. I did get slammed twice into my horn on my saddle spring of last year. OMG I felt like I had been stabbed. I had an egg in my gut the size of a goose egg...no kidding. Black and blue stomach for weeks and I still have a knot it my stomach - ya hoo. We were about 3.5 miles from camp and each step hurt like crazy. Gaaa - can't imagine if I had been farther away.

I would think riding with others is the safest bet. One of my favorite riding buddies is my cousin - and bless her, she is the director of a huge ER and of a smaller one in the neighboring county. So having a nurse on hand doesn't hurt and she has the ambulance company on standby no matter where we ride. A lady got hurt on our ride last year (I wasn't there but hubby was) and this chick got knocked out when her 2 year old stud colt (idiot right there!) freaked out when she took him in deep water. He ran for the bank and she came off, shirt around horn. Hubby said she looked like she was barefoot skiing. She hit the bank and went down face first and was knocked out cold. Cousin got off and ran to her and lady's boyfriend yelled to leave her alone. Lady woke up cursing and saying to leave her alone. Cousin was on phone with air ambulance. Lady insisted she was ok. What a duffus. Thank God for her she was ok but she could have had a brain bleed like Liam Neeson's wife had - she died hours later after saying she was fine. 

Riding is a dangerous sport/activity, no doubt about it. The best we can do is be as careful as possible and never be afraid to get off in a dangerous situation. Cell phones and GPS's can help someone locate you if you are conscious - I carry both and hope I never get lost!!


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I got lost in the woods many years ago before there were any of these fancy devices. Fortunately, my horse was not as "directionally challenged" as I am. They have a pretty good homing device built right in their brains.


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## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

Celeste, Biscuit has amazed me with his sense of direction. He even corrected himself last month that had me and my riding buddy cracking up at him. He should have veered left but kept going straight. Going straight would have got him where we were going but the trail actually swung around in an arc but it was very faint. He was following the edge of the pond. He got about 20 feet from the trail and stopped himself, looked around to the left and right and turned around and went back. It was hilarious. He did that twice that day of correcting himself. He knew exactly where to turn right at a very sharp angle and the trail was so tiny but he knew exactly where it was. We laughed at him and said his name is now Biscuit Navigator Garmin. I know that if I ever get lost Biscuit will be able to take me back to the trailer.


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

While I have met a few directionally challenged horses most will get you home or back to the trailer. The funny part is that some will take you in a direct line without bothering with a trail and others will simply back track.


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## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

Whatever it takes Darrin when your lost. I wouldn't care how he got me back!!!


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## KatieQ (Apr 4, 2011)

I wouldn't depend on cell phones in the back country. A guy I knew died when he was accidentally shot in a hunting accident. The rest of his party tried to get help with a cell phone, but the signal was pinging off two separate towers 60 miles apart and the SAR people could not pinpoint their location. It took over 2 hours to find them, but by then it was too late.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

QOS said:


> Bearkiller - that is too cool that you are a tester for Garmin. I LOVE playing with my Garmin - it is an eTrex Venture HC - not super high tech but I love it to map where I have been, how fast I am going and top speed, etc. Way too much fun.
> 
> Wow - you guys are some tough old buzzards. Y'all are scaring the bejeesus out of me. I did get slammed twice into my horn on my saddle spring of last year. OMG I felt like I had been stabbed. I had an egg in my gut the size of a goose egg...no kidding. Black and blue stomach for weeks and I still have a knot it my stomach - ya hoo. We were about 3.5 miles from camp and each step hurt like crazy. Gaaa - can't imagine if I had been farther away.
> 
> ...


Since we have a tester for Garmin here, howabout testing the directions ? they totally suck. I still havent figured out how to work mine,


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## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

Joe, which one do you have? It took me a while to figure mine out. I got a book with mine which is more than I can say for my friend who bought the Dakota 20! She got a little pamphlet (I hate that word...it sounds bad) and that was it. 

I have the Garmin eTrex and it is similar in SOME features to Lee Ann's Dakota. Maybe I can help you with yours.


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## gamecock67 (May 26, 2009)

*Emergency! PLB's, Cell Phones, GPS - Self Help References.*

My hope in posting my real-life experience was to glean from the actual experiences anyone may have had with *Personal Locator Beacons* (PLB). I specifically focus on the PLB's because both Cell Phones and Global Positioning Satillite (GPS) units have serious limitations in the backcountry.

For anyone concerned about being able to reach Search And Rescue personnel should the need present itself while experiencing the backcountry - regardless of the circumstances - I would encourage the reading of the following article(s) by Don F. Jones, Jr. Don's outdoor and wilderness experience covers 50+ years of hiking, biking, sailing, backpacking, cross country skiing, and serious mountaineering - primarily in the Pacific Northwest.

Emergency Communication Devices Analyzed

We all know, or should know, the risks involved in horseback riding in the backcountry. However, knowing what could happen should be more reason for having whatever technology is available to help minimize the risks involved. I would hope to never have to use the services of Search and Rescue - but as my wreck proved to me, we are not always in control of circumstances and events that can put us in a very vunerable, if not, life threatening position.:-(

If I need help beyond that which I can provide to myself, I would like to be able to "...reach out and touch someone!"


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## Painted Horse (Dec 29, 2006)

Years ago, I used to take a raft and float remote rivers in Alaska, on one such trip we were chased by a grizzly bear. I was telling the story to some co-workers at dinner one night. A lady at the table chimed in asking if I called for help on my cell phone. I realized at that time, There are a LOT of people in this country who have no concept of what being remote and in a wilderness area really involves.

People have grown up using cell phones and expecting to have service. Help is always just a phone call away. The Sat phones and PLBs are just an extension of that belief. They can in many circumstances be life savers. They also can lead some folks into a false sense of security that allows them to do more than they should.

I live in a part of the country where every year people die in remote areas. They get lost, hurt or exposed to harsh weather and perish. Some of these people could be saved if they had PLBs and knew how and when to use them. Others may be better off if they just used common sense and stayed closer to their car. 

We had a mother and daughter fly in here from some where back east. They rented a car and drove to the mountains and went on a hike. They perished and it was several years later when their remains were found. With their remains was a camera that documented their visit. At first the photos showed two people having a great time in sunny weather, as the photos progressed you could see clouds and the storm front building in the distance. Eventually the photos showed them caught in a snow storm at high elevation where they perished from hyperthermia. 


If they had triggered a PLB, it might have help rescue workers to find them quicker. The response time might not have been fast enough to save them. But the family would have had closure a lot sooner than waiting several years for hikers to stumble across their remains. But they might have been better off carrying an extra coat or some basic survival gear that would kept them alive in changing weather. Or just using some common sense to get back to their car when the weather started to change.

Sometimes help, even if you can contact them is hours away.


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## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

Painted Horse - nothing can replace good ol' common sense and some people are so lacking it that!!!


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I live in Georgia, and there are places that have no cell service. I can't imagine how hard it would be to get help out west. Usually my husband rides with me. If I ride alone, I make sure that he knows which direction I am going. If I don't make it back in a timely manner, he comes looking for me.


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

Celeste said:


> I live in Georgia, and there are places that have no cell service. I can't imagine how hard it would be to get help out west. Usually my husband rides with me. If I ride alone, I make sure that he knows which direction I am going. If I don't make it back in a timely manner, he comes looking for me.


In Oregon we occupy ~4% of the state. To put it mildly, that leaves huge holes in our cell phone coverage. Even worse, a lot of those occupied areas show coverage where it doesn't exist due to mountains. Yeah if you stand still in just the right spot while holding your mouth right you just might get a weak signal.


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## Painted Horse (Dec 29, 2006)

A story on a local TV stationtoday about a man getting stuck in quicksand and setting off a Locate Becon and the county sheriff flying a helocopter into the remote area and saving him

Man rescued after being trapped in 'quicksand' for 13 hours in rural Utah | ksl.com


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## SailorGriz (Nov 28, 2010)

I carry my SPOT locator in my CamelBak pack. I send test signals on a regular basis which are received by my cell phone and computer, my wife's cell and computer, and a couple other people. I've never had a signal not go through, but sometimes it does take quite awhile. I guess I assume that if the test signals get through, the 911 signal would too. I hope I never have to test that assumption!

I also carry an amateur radio and an FRS radio. My 911 message includes what frequencies I'll be monitoring on both with instructions to at least try raising me on one or both of them, if needed.

My wife knows what frequencies I monitor, also. Not that it would do us any good if we were riding together and one of us got hurt!

I'm a member of the local Search and Rescue Team and I know that other members know I am an amateur radio operator. They'd know to try me on the amateur bands and what freqs I'd most likely be using.

One of my radios is also capable of using the same frequency that's used by the SAR teams. If I'm the "subject" I should be able to monitor them, and talk to them, on their own freqs as they are searching for me. And assuming they are in range. 

All of the above, of course, assumes I'm concious and able to use my devices. Shrug.

I also carry, in my CamelBak, firestarter stuff that'll get wet wood burning, a space blanket, cordage, a small can, and a few other odds and ends. With that stuff if I can move, I can survive, at least for quite awhile. I think. It's another thing I hope to never have to test!

Riding is a risk. We do what we can to minimize the risk. But it never, ever, goes away. I ride anyway.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Life in general is a risk. 
The biggest risk is to go through life afraid to do anything, and then one day you realized that you wasted your life. Live. Ride.


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## SailorGriz (Nov 28, 2010)

Amen, Celeste. Amen!


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