# How well do your English horses stop?



## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

I am a Western rider. Been riding before the age of 2 (have pics to prove it!) and I am now 24. I would consider myself a very experienced rider when it comes to Western as I've started a lot of horses myself as well as ridden all different types of horses. 

While I am attending grad school, I had the opportunity to ride English for the first time which was a blast because it is something new to learn and something I can certainly use to improve my horse skills. 

I went riding almost every Sunday for the past 2 years with 2 ladies who own their own horses and have their own indoor arena and such. They have 4 horses. I usually ride one horse the majority of the time but I have ridden the other horses too, one of which was 4 yrs old and just in training.

Now I don't mean this in a derogatory way at all, but I am just curious if it is something consistent with ALL English horses or if it is maybe just how they happen to ride their own personal horses. 

The one thing that made me VERY uncomfortable is that all of the horses did NOT stop very well at all. Being a Western rider, that is one of my requirements for all my horses: An immediate stop when I put pressure on the reins. No questions asked.

With their horses, you could literally pull and pull and pull before getting them to slow down (if we are going faster than a walk). And even at the walk itself, the stopping is not instantaneous like I like it to be (for safety reasons). Most of the trails we rode on were narrow and gravel, and not really ideal to do a one-reined stop. Although, none of these were running-crazy-out-of-control situations that required a one-reined stop --- I am just not comfortable with their horses' lack of quick stops. 

Of course, since these were not my horses and these ladies totally took me in on good faith being I was a student and allowing me to ride their horses for free, I didn't say a word about the stopping issue. However, on one occasion when it was raining and we rode in the indoor, I was riding the main horse for one of these ladies rather than the one I usually ride and this mare was _terrible about stopping_; worse than the others. But by the end of the indoor ride, I had her stopping nicely by using a strong voice "whoa" cue, lots of body language ("stopping riding"), and not releasing steady rein pressure until she stopped moving her feet.

So because of that, I am led to believe it is maybe just a problem with _their_ horses in particular, rather than a problem with English riding itself. 

But then again, since this is my only experience with English riding, I don't know that for sure.

My hypothesis is that because English riding encourages contact on the bit at all times, the English horses are less sensitive to the "stop" cue of putting backward pressure on the bit? Whereas a Western horse is ridden on a loose rein so they are more sensitive and quick to stop when they do feel rein pressure?

I know my story got long .... but any comments on how well or how not-well your English horse stops?

Like I said, I'm just trying to learn here! No offense meant at all to the English discipline.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Actually you usually stop the horse with your seat, not the reins. But my horses also know voice command, and I can stop my qh on canter to the dead stop with the voice command if I want to (although I very rarely do it). :wink:


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

My horse has an amazing stop when asked for. Something my trainer required all his horses (clients horses) to have.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

You've ridden 4 horses that belong to these 2 particular ladies. They do not represent the majority of English riders, so I'm not sure how you came to your hypothesis based on such a small pool of people and horses.

I've ridden English my entire life (tried Western, hated it), and none of my horses in those 33 years have been difficult to stop at a walk _or _trot. At the canter I'll give them some leeway, because they need to slow down first.

It's all in the way the animals are trained, and has nothing to do with bit contact. Sounds to me as if these women aren't training their horses correctly. Regardless of the discipline, all horses should stop when asked.


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## Zimpatico (Nov 5, 2010)

Most english horses know downward transitions and halt more from your seat than your hands. Next time you're riding, think of bracing your lower back with no hand pressure and see what happens. Most english disciplines look for quiet hands and engagement in the hind end coming into the halt, thus the need to train from the seat.


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## EmilyandNikki (Sep 7, 2010)

Most of the horses in my barn are good for stopping, if you know how to ask. 
I know one horse, I use a half-halt, he flicks his ear back, then when use my seat and a tiny bit of hand, he stops, instantly.

One of the other horses, I need to use a half-halt, then more hand than than the horse above. He is harder to stop, but after a few halt transitions, he is fine.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Zimpatico said:


> Most english horses know downward transitions and halt more from your seat than your hands.


True, and if the OP has never ridden anything except Western, she may not be giving the horse the correct signals to stop. So it could very well be rider error more than the horses being unresponsive.


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## MissH (Apr 10, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> True, and if the OP has never ridden anything except Western, she may not be giving the horse the correct signals to stop. So it could very well be rider error more than the horses being unresponsive.



Agree with this.


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## Babes Ribbon (Jan 25, 2011)

As a western rider I have noticed that myself, I don't think it's that the horses don't know how to stop but just like they said above the ques would be different and the reaction as well. We require are horse's in many western disiplines to slide and burry their butts in the sand from even a fast gallop, they don't need that but will slow the gaits down and the ask for whoa... If you know how to work the horse you'll get a stop. Just not the way we're used to it.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

> Actually you usually stop the horse with your seat, not the reins. But my horses also know voice command, and I can stop my qh on canter to the dead stop with the voice command if I want to (although I very rarely do it).


Kitten Val -- I do use my seat also when I stop, although I could have made that more clear in my original post. I like my reins to be the last cue I have to give (after saying whoa, sitting in my seat, "stop riding", etc). I know that verbal cues aren't a big thing in English riding based on what I was told by these two women I ride with and also what I have read in past magazines (I recall something about getting docked points if a judge hears you verbally tell your horse anything? I could be wrong, but is that true?) But I could be wrong on that too, as I obviously have only ridden English with one set of people and one set of horses.



> You've ridden 4 horses that belong to these 2 particular ladies. They do not represent the majority of English riders, so I'm not sure how you came to your hypothesis based on such a small pool of people and horses.


Speed Racer -- Well I am here and asking to _learn_, now aren't I?




> Most english horses know downward transitions and halt more from your seat than your hands. Next time you're riding, think of bracing your lower back with no hand pressure and see what happens. Most english disciplines look for quiet hands and engagement in the hind end coming into the halt, thus the need to train from the seat.


Zimpatico -- As I just said to KittenVal above, I do also used my seat when I ask for a stop although I didn't word that very well in my original post. And actually, I don't ride with any hand pressure on them at all because I am used to riding Western. The horse that I usually ride actually has a bad problem with leaning on the riders hands ... but not me! Because I don't _give him_ any rein pressure because I am so used to keeping the reins loose. He can't lean on me if there's no pressure to lean on. His owners have commented that it is good for him, I guess, to have me riding him that way. 



> True, and if the OP has never ridden anything except Western, she may not be giving the horse the correct signals to stop. So it could very well be rider error more than the horses being unresponsive


Speed Racer -- While I don't deny that there is certainly a chance I am not cueing the English horses properly, due to the difference in disciplines, the mare that I specifically mentioned about riding in the indoor, HER own normal rider also has problems stopping her. And she's an English rider.

So indeed, I didn't know if this was an English thing *or* if it is just their horses in particular. Which it is obviously sounding like it is their horses, from the general concensous here.



> As a western rider I have noticed that myself, I don't think it's that the horses don't know how to stop but just like they said above the ques would be different and the reaction as well. We require are horse's in many western disiplines to slide and burry their butts in the sand from even a fast gallop, they don't need that but will slow the gaits down and the ask for whoa... If you know how to work the horse you'll get a stop. Just not the way we're used to it. [/QUOTE]
> 
> Babes Ribbon -- Maybe that is more what the situation is. It's not that the horses don't stop at all; but I feel like they certainly aren't stopping as quickly and immediately responsive as they should be, which I guess is what I am used to in my Western riding (as you described too).


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## Crystal09 (Jan 7, 2011)

beau159 - yes it is true that you lose points for using verbal commands in dressage


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

With my own horses and with clients' horses, I will not work on anything more 'fancy' until I have a clear 'stop' and 'go'. If the horse does not move off immediately from a slight touch of my leg and lightening of the seat, then that's what we'll work on. Same goes for stop, if the horse does not stop from a deepening and slowing of my seat, we'll spend the time working on that. 

You absolutely cannot put all english horses in the same category because you've ridden a couple belonging to the same owners.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

beau159 said:


> Speed Racer -- Well I am here and asking to _learn_, now aren't I?


Your original post, although you said it wasn't_ meant_ to be derogatory, certainly could be taken that way.

Since you were hypothesizing based on your admitted limited knowledge that apparently _all _English horses were hard to stop, your tone came across as if Western horses must necessarily be much better trained overall. 

I was merely pointing out the logic holes in the first part and ignoring the insinuated second part.




beau159 said:


> Speed Racer -- While I don't deny that there is certainly a chance I am not cueing the English horses properly, due to the difference in disciplines, the mare that I specifically mentioned about riding in the indoor, HER own normal rider also has problems stopping her. And she's an English rider.
> 
> So indeed, I didn't know if this was an English thing *or* if it is just their horses in particular. Which it is obviously sounding like it is their horses, from the general consensus here.


Then it would appear that either the horse, rider, or both have gaps in their training, not that English horses in general are badly behaved. 

Why would you even _assume_ it was an 'English thing'? Have you never seen any other horses than the ones you've supposedly ridden for years and years?

I find that odd, since although I'm not a Western disciple, I've seen more than my fair share of Western classes and riding over the years. 

It's amazing that you've lived in such a protective little bubble that you've never watched the equestrian part of the Olympics, or anything anywhere pertaining to English disciplines.


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## raywonk (Jan 9, 2011)

a horse is a horse no mater what disaplen they sould all be reding the same. we just talk in diffrent laguges. my in laws and i have this descutions all the time. they think i know nothing because i do not use there terms and langues. So the point i am getting to is a fine trained horse should be able to do anything and a fine traind rider should be able to ride anything.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> Your original post, although you said it wasn't_ meant_ to be derogatory, certainly could be taken that way.
> 
> Since you were hypothesizing based on your admitted limited knowledge that apparently _all _English horses were hard to stop, your tone came across as if Western horses must necessarily be much better trained overall.
> 
> ...


Yes I realize my question can be taken in a derogatory fashion which was why I was very sure to say that I don't mean it in that way; I know that the whole English - Western divide can be a really touchy subject. I just didn't care for the snark in your first post so even though I shouldn't have replied back with it snarkiness to add to it, I did. I just really am clueless when it comes to riding English horses because of my limited experience with just these four horses and these people. And I did also say that I didn't know if it was their horses or all English horses in general. I said _both_ options because I don't know what is the case. I am not saying that Western horses are more "trained" than English horses. 

Because I _haven't_ ridden any other English horses besides these four horses, therefore I _don't_ have anything else to compare English riding to. The concept of riding with constant contact on the reins is a totally different idea to me. So how am I supposed to know if this is common thing across the board for the average English rider or not. Because I have nothing to compare it to because I have only had the opportunity to ride English with these people. 

No, I have not seen ANY other English horses until these four. Where I am originally from it is *very* highly *Western only*. There are a few scattered horse shows that have English events, but I have never been to them. Yes, I've seen them in magazines and every once in a while on TV but this is my first experience seeing and riding an English horse in the flesh. That's why I was so excited about getting the chance to experience it while I am in grad school -- because I've never gotten to. Pictures and TV can never amount to the real thing. Plus, pictures and TV are usually of world-quality events. As there is a difference between a world-class Western horse and the average person's hobby horse, there could be the same difference in the English world. And I don't know that. That's w_hy_ I am asking. Everyone else has been extremely nice about answering. 

So yes you may be primarily an English rider and still see some Western things, that's great, but not all areas of the country are like yours. Mine = Western. That's just how it is. 

How exactly am I supposed to watch the Equestrian Olympics on TV when I only had 10 channels of TV until I went to college? Heck, right now I *still *only have about 10 channels because that is what I can afford being in grad school, and really don't have time to watch it anyway. So call me jealous of you that you have gotten the TV programming to watch it. Because I really haven't. I'm sorry North Dakota is such a protective little bubble, but we like where we live.


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## Strange (Jan 11, 2009)

Just sounds like these horses have never been properly trained to halt and be consistently on the aids. 

There are well trained horses and poorly trained horses in EVERY discipline. My horse and many of the horses I ride can be jumping and be stopped almost instantaneously right in the middle of doing the course. Or, for example, in my dressage lesson the other day we were doing canter - walk - canter - walk exercises (not quite halt, but you get the idea). It comes down to proper training, regardless of what discipline the horses is being ridden and competed in.


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

_My coaches like to teach us to pick up our hands when we want the horse to stop, and not just to pull back on them. They teach new school horses this right away. I get a better halt if I lift my hands then pulling back. The kids who still want to pull back are just fighting with their horses/ponies._


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

I do Eventing and my horse is expected to halt immediately at the slightest of cues especially in dressage...sounds like these horses weren't trained as well with the halt cues.

Take a look on youtube and google some high level dressage riders and you'll see some precise halts!  

On the flip side I've ridden a couple Western trail horses who basically ignored every cue I gave them they were so dead sided from inexperienced riders paying to ride them. But I certainly know they don't represent the entire Western discipline...I've been on other western horses who you basically just have to THINK a cue and they read your mind 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LJohnson (Jul 24, 2010)

After reading all the comments here, I'm a little afraid all my fellow English riders will jump all over me for posting this, but, here it goes. Though every horse is trained and ridden with different expectations in whatever discipline they choose, I do find a general and rather stark difference in the halt expectations of English Riders as opposed to Western. I ride English, but went to a cow sorting with some friends a few times and helped to warm up the horses. This was my first experience riding Western. After loping the first horse around, I went to bring him back down. I sat down and back deeply in the saddle to stiffen my seat, quietly said "woah" and to my surprise the horse came to what felt like a screeching halt. As an English rider I was caught completely by surprise. This was no transition, it was a tear up the transmission - 3rd gear to e-break - whiplash halt. It wasn't just that one, all the horses I rode did that with little or no rein- just the que from my seat and heaven forbid the "W" word. 
So yes, beau159, I do agree that there is a major difference in the halt expectations of English and Western riders. I don't feel like my horses are unresponsive to the halt que, but they do down shift far more gradually than the western riding experiences I've had.


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## Babes Ribbon (Jan 25, 2011)

Thank you for saying that LJonhson, and like I said earlier it's just diffrence in what we require are horses to do. We need them to stop on a dime roll back and catch that cow that just got away and 99% of the time that cow is going flat out. It's not that western horses are trained better but that their trained diffrent.. I doubt my cow horse can jump a 2ft post, she'd probably spook and leave me in the dirt, but put a cow in front of her and I know I'm in the money But I still love going to spruce medeows... Grew up watching Ian Miller and Big Ben


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I will have to say, that I have seen more horses trained english be hard to stop than those trained western. That is just a generalization, but it has been my experience, too.
Could be the use of the curb in many western horses gets a very prompt reply. Also often gets a head thrown in the air and a transition that can be really abrupt, in the case of bad training, as in the case of poor training in English, you get the horse that leans on the bit and comes to a halt with great resistance


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## Amba1027 (Jun 26, 2009)

LJohnson said:


> After reading all the comments here, I'm a little afraid all my fellow English riders will jump all over me for posting this, but, here it goes. Though every horse is trained and ridden with different expectations in whatever discipline they choose, I do find a general and rather stark difference in the halt expectations of English Riders as opposed to Western. I ride English, but went to a cow sorting with some friends a few times and helped to warm up the horses. This was my first experience riding Western. After loping the first horse around, I went to bring him back down. I sat down and back deeply in the saddle to stiffen my seat, quietly said "woah" and to my surprise the horse came to what felt like a screeching halt. As an English rider I was caught completely by surprise. This was no transition, it was a tear up the transmission - 3rd gear to e-break - whiplash halt. It wasn't just that one, all the horses I rode did that with little or no rein- just the que from my seat and heaven forbid the "W" word.
> So yes, beau159, I do agree that there is a major difference in the halt expectations of English and Western riders. I don't feel like my horses are unresponsive to the halt que, but they do down shift far more gradually than the western riding experiences I've had.


I have to agree with this. The only English horses I've ever ridden that actually stopped the second they were asked, were the ones who didn't even want to be going in the first place. We're always being told "plan ahead for your halt", "start asking for the halt ahead of time so he'll actually be stopped once you get to [wherever you are supposed to be halting]". Maybe I've just never ridden a well trained horse, but I don't think that is the case. Granted, the only Western horses I've ever ridden are tourist attraction trail ride horses, so I can't really comment on whether or not they stop better.


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## Arksly (Mar 13, 2010)

From my experience it's all how the horse is trained. Jesse will stop quickly, balanced, straight, and square when I ask him properly. Which means he is forward, light, flexed, and has rocked onto his haunches. At the horse show we actually got nine's on all of our halts (First level test 3)! I was so proud! Anyway, if he isn't properly set up it takes forever to get him to stop. He begins to become heavy on the forehand, isn't straight and parks out. I've ridden some other horses that you have to ask them properly otherwise they'll just keep going lol. As I said already, it all depends on the horse's training.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Amen!! VEry well said.


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## Arksly (Mar 13, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> Amen!! VEry well said.


I'm confused. Who are you saying that to? (Sorry, it's late)


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

YOU, silly! Now go to bed.


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## Arksly (Mar 13, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> YOU, silly! Now go to bed.


Oh, okay :lol:. Of to sleep I go!


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## netty83 (Sep 21, 2010)

Hi - Just wanted to say that i haven't ridden too many different horses as when i find one i gel with i tend to stick with them but I am currently taking lunge lessons english and trail riding western lessons and the horse i ride on lunge is so finely trained that i barely have to do anything to stop him and the slightest squeeze to walk and away he goes infact i am sometimes a little scared to put any leg on incase i cue him straight to canter lol. My western lesson horse is responseive and has an excellent stop but sometimes he ignores my cues and i am in no doubt that he is just aswell trained but i sometimes clearly ask wrong.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

I don't think it's a case of better/worse training - it's more that there are different needs/expectations of the halt between disciplines. 

An English horse is expected to come into the halt still forward, into the contact, and engaged. Speed of the halt isn't an issue - as in nothing is going to go wrong if they take two seconds to halt instead of one if it is still correct. 

A western horse needs to bury their butt in the dirt as soon as the thought enters the riders head. The mechanics of the stop aren't as important except for stopping on the hind instead of the front - which has a practical purpose of ensuring the horse is immediatky balanced for the next task.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

If these horses were trained for English properly, they might actually think you are doing half-halts when you are trying to stop them. As you say, the typical Western halt is a quick cue/quick response. In an English half-halt you drive the horse forward and give a hint of "stop" before releasing to gather the horse's energy. If you are cueing and releasing, the horse might think you are simply half halting. 
My friend does a Western stop and when she rides my English horse she can't stop her very well at all. That's because she raises her hands up and keeps pushing her forward with her seat bones, which my horse interprets as "go." She is used to collecting into a stop instead.
When I stop it is more of a squeezing forward with seat and legs, then collecting the energy in my hands. When I feel that the horse is square underneath me I squeeze just a bit more and we stop. This can take a couple of seconds.
I have actually retrained a couple of reiners because it annoyed me that they were so sharp on the cues. When I say turn I don't mean "flip to the side right now!" I didn't think as they got older they needed to jam their legs into the ground so hard. It seemed like they were in the military. "Sir, yes sir! Right away sir!" It's not quite my style.


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## Babes Ribbon (Jan 25, 2011)

Tinyliny,

The abruptness of a western horse has nothing to do with the bit, I use a simple smooth snaffle to start my horses. I only use the bit in my stops as an emergency break, if the body and voice don't get a response then I use the bit and back them up and try again. The more trained my horse is the more extreme the bit becomes.... Like you said the proper use of a curb bit in western riding is not to use it at all. Although sometimes it's engaged for a fast correction..


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## justjump (Jan 18, 2011)

Mine stops when I pull back and say Woah. Or, he drops a gate when I say Woah without pulling. When I first got him (when he was as green and crazy as they come) that was the first thing we worked on. A friend of mines does not stop, and it's horrible at shows. She is always running into people because she has no breaks, and it's completely 100% her fault for not ever working on it, an Getting mad at him when he doesn't stop.

I guess it all depends on how much you work on it, the kind of rider you are, and the kind of horse you have
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

So the long and the short of it, a horse stops well if he's trained to do so. Point blank. And I totally agree.
I think that where myself and another poster see a "trend" is that in many English riders, a quick stop is not valued, therefor not trained into the horse. Whereas , in Western riding it "tends" to be a more valued part of the total, trained horse, so "tends" to be more trained into the hores.
All just trends, based on my observations. Certainly not the absolute reality.


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## LJohnson (Jul 24, 2010)

Amen TinyLily!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LJohnson (Jul 24, 2010)

Oops tintliny
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Babes Ribbon (Jan 25, 2011)

You said it better then I could Tinyliny!!!


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

i agree its just how you train. my english mare stops quick when i ask her to, but i hardly ever do, because its not something thats encouraged in dressage. i have her stop that abruptly sometimes for obedience.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Thank you everyone for the replies and discussion. This is proving to be very interesting and is certainly getting me to think about a few things! (Not to mention excited to try some of this stuff the next time I get to go riding with them.)



Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> On the flip side I've ridden a couple Western trail horses who basically ignored every cue I gave them they were so dead sided from inexperienced riders paying to ride them. But I certainly know they don't represent the entire Western discipline...I've been on other western horses who you basically just have to THINK a cue and they read your mind


I think my downfall here is that these are the _only_ English horses I have ever ridden. I just don't have any other experience to compare them to besides the limited things I have seen in magazines or on TV. But thank you for your comments regardless!


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I had the priveledge of riding a friends Reiner once, and man, could that horse stop! She said that all I had to do, was lean back and push my feet forward - and kaplow, he stopped!

Nelson stops pretty well, but I believe his ability to stop on a dime is due to his previous owner being a Dressage Queen. She took him 3rd level dressage.

All I have to do, is close my knees and close my hands - and he will halt. Very nicely too. But that's from the trot, or walk. I've never tried the transition from the canter yet.


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## Yoshi (Feb 6, 2011)

Interesting topic!
My horse has learnt to stop when I lean back a tiny bit and use a voice command. No hands needed.


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