# People that are for horse slaughter please see this! Thanks!



## Br4dRoDeOqUeEn

Hey there! I was just wondering if you could do me a small favor that would help in a BIG way! In the link provided is a petition that i have made for a good reason! It is to reopen horse slaughter plants in the US! I know that it sounds like that would be a bad thing to do, but the reasons are listed in the petition as for why we need them to reopen. Please read the petition and sign if you agree! If I get enough signatures it will hopefully overturn the law at congress! The choice is yours, but just remember that horses are counting on us! Also if you agree with this, please pass it on to others to get more signatures!

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/openslaughter 

Thank you and God bless!


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## barefoothooves

Online petition forms aren't considered by lawmakers as legitmate forms. If you really want to change the laws, you can email your senators and state representatives directly. I have =) You will have to provide your real name and contact information to the person you are writing to. They need to hear from horse owners and professionals in the Equine Industry,not just activists that never even had a horse.

Here's a link to find your Senator:
U.S. Senate: Contacting The Senate

Here's a link to your Represenative:
https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml


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## mls

Actually the petition is misleading. United States government did not ban slaughter. I believe IL closed it's plant for not following procedures and the other two states followed suit. But the closing was a STATE level government, not FEDERAL level.

The Federal government is working on the TRANSPORTATION issues (double deckers, down animals)


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## barefoothooves

mls said:


> Actually the petition is misleading. United States government did not ban slaughter. I believe IL closed it's plant for not following procedures and the other two states followed suit. But the closing was a STATE level government, not FEDERAL level.
> 
> The Federal government is working on the TRANSPORTATION issues (double deckers, down animals)


True, but it was a national campain to end slaughter, so keeping up with federal officials and voicing your issues keeps your intrests in the front. Several states are now looking into re-establishing horse slaughter plants after the back lash of flooded horse markets and downturned economy. It's ugly, but it's a way of stopping horses from being abandoned by famlies with lost incomes and forclosures, and would create a nominal amount of jobs and income from the sale of the meat, so I think economic strain and lack of resources is going to bring it back, like it or not. Keep in touch with your govt. officials directly to make your voice heard, and this applies to all pertinent issues, not just equine.


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## Tayz

I'm sorry to say, but noone on this forum will sign this petition. Horses are our life's. this forum is for people who love horses, not who want to help get a petition to slaughter them. These are my personal feelings and I mean no offense. I really don't see the point of killing such beautiful creatures what could make some little girls happy...


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## Xoras

Tayz said:


> I'm sorry to say, but noone on this forum will sign this petition. Horses are our life's. this forum is for people who love horses, not who want to help get a petition to slaughter them. These are my personal feelings and I mean no offense. I really don't see the point of killing such beautiful creatures what could make some little girls happy...


Except, y'know, there are too many horses and not enough little girls to make happy.

And I see horse slaughter as a necessary evil. Without it, we'd have a huge overpopulation of horses and few people to take them. That would probably cause a shortage of feed, of course, to feed all the overpopulated horses. The shortage would drive up the prices of feed, and at some point people wouldn't be able to afford it, and their horses would starve to death or be put down, most likely.

See? Necessary evil. If they're going to allow slaughter again, I most definitely think it should be regulated with strict laws.


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## jemmamalone

_im sorry but i agree with tayz
And these are my personal feelings and i dont mean offence either but just because horses may get overpopulated then you want to slaughter them?!?!?! 
you said that there are too many horses and not enough little girls to make them happy?
Does that mean that when kiddies don't have mommy's or daddy's that instead of sending them into foster homes and adoption agencies your just going to slaughter them? No one would think of doing that so why would any body think of doing that to horses that some of us people think of as our kids?
every body has our right to an opinion and this is mine
_


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## mls

Tayz said:


> I'm sorry to say, but noone on this forum will sign this petition. Horses are our life's. this forum is for people who love horses, not who want to help get a petition to slaughter them. These are my personal feelings and I mean no offense. I really don't see the point of killing such beautiful creatures what could make some little girls happy...


Do you have a suggestion for unwanted horses?


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## onetoomany

jemmamalone said:


> _Does that mean that when kiddies don't have mommy's or daddy's that instead of sending them into foster homes and adoption agencies your just going to slaughter them? _


Not to rain on your opinion but the two issues are not comparable. People are not a possession- horses are. By being a possession they fall into one of two catagories a need or a want. Horses are most definitely a want, a very, very large and costly one and thereby become a luxury.


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## Xoras

jemmamalone said:


> _im sorry but i agree with tayz
> And these are my personal feelings and i dont mean offence either but just because horses may get overpopulated then you want to slaughter them?!?!?!
> you said that there are too many horses and not enough little girls to make them happy?
> Does that mean that when kiddies don't have mommy's or daddy's that instead of sending them into foster homes and adoption agencies your just going to slaughter them? No one would think of doing that so why would any body think of doing that to horses that some of us people think of as our kids?
> every body has our right to an opinion and this is mine
> _


There's more value placed on the life of a human child than on an animal. Even if you think of the horse as your child, it's still an animal.
It's how society works, and you should realize that while, ideally, every little girl or boy has loving parents and that cute, fat little pinto pony in his or her backyard, this isn't an ideal world.

It's a painful subject, I completely understand why a lot of people are against it, but that's the reality of life. And wouldn't you honestly rather there be regulated slaughter so that the horses don't feel any pain at all or would you rather have them carted off to Mexico where they die in a particularly agonizing, painful death?

Think on it for a bit.

And if you really think slaughter is bad, do you have a suggestion on where those unwanted horses should go?


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## cowgirlfitzy

I agree with Xoras. It is a neccessary evil. I don't think anyone wants to see a horse slaughter. I would rather see them put down humanly then to starve to death. We have auctions here every month and it is sooo sad to see all the skinny horses. If I could afford to I would take them all in. 

I think people should be responsible with their breeding. It seems that most of these horses are from "backyard" breeders which contribute to the problem. Not to say that it doesn't happen to quality bred horses but most of the ones i see probably shouldn't have been breed in the first place. 

Thats just my opinion tho. I don't want to argue with anyone.


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## Whipple

I completely agree with you cowgirlfitzy. If you are not going to be responsible for the life you are creating when you breed (and I do mean forever) then you shouldnt breed. This applies to any animal. If you are going to breed. be willing to take the animal back if it needs a home. Do not let it go to slaughter.
I don't agree with slaughter. I dont agree with people who view horses as possessions that they get to rule over. They are just animals, but they are alive. A life is a life. Period.
(Sorry, this is a sensetive subject, as I'm sure it is to veryone, whichever side you are on)


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## Angel_Leaguer

Currently horses that are marked for slaughter may spend days in a overcrowded sometimes double decker trailer where they may then spend a few days in a holding lot. In Mexico, slaughter house workers with sometimes stabs the horse in the back or head several times before the horse drops, and then the horse is hoisted (sometimes still alive) by the back legs and then the neck is cut to drain the blood. 

In Canada I’ve heard that it is a little better were they take a shot to the head and then it is done... but the horses still have to endure the long trailer ride to the slaughterhouse.

Now Im for slaughter if it were regulated in the United States. What if multiple plants were opened throughout the states? What if the trailers had limited numbers of animals per the size of the trailer? If there were more plants the ride wouldn’t be as long and the animal wouldn’t go without food or water for as long. If the FDA could overlook how things are done maybe it wouldn’t be as brutal... 

Don’t get me wrong... I love horses, if I didn’t I wouldn’t but a good chunk of my income into them, but I still feel that slaughter is a necessary evil.

How can this be prevented??? IMO breeding needs to be regulated or at least held to some standard. How are we going to do this? Im not sure but it would need to be a collaboration of the breed registries. I have a hard time with embryo transfers and having multiple babies born out of the same mare and stud in one year. I don’t think we should stop AI but maybe studs can only service a limited number of mares each year. It isn’t the horses fault that they naturally breed it is our responsibility to ensure that quality is put in front of quantity. If a stallion doesn’t carry quality traits he needs to be cut and mares need not to be exposed if they aren’t of quality. 

I rather a horse be slaughtered in which they may endure a few days of hell then stand starving for months…


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## barefoothooves

I still think it's amazing how everyone can classify horses as being more worthy of life than a chicken or cow, or pig. Any of those animals can be made into pets and show animals, as horses are, but they are our favorite meats, so nobody really fusses over their slaughter, do they? 
And for the old horses that are suffering just from the cumulative wear and tear on their bodies,even if they are loved and wanted, eventually have to go. What's wrong with their bodies being processed into something for the living instead of becoming land fill and rotting? I personally don't want to eat a horse steak, but I doubt the horse cares after he's gone. In nature he'd be dinner for something, not become a chemical laden dead zone under ground polluting water tables. That's a bit graphic and morbid, but is the truth. 
I do think breeding should be done more carefully, but extra laws are not really going to help,unless you want Uncle Sam living with you to micromanage your every movement, which I don't, and I don't breed nags that go to slaughter, either. I just feel that slaughter in US is a more humane option than the tailer ride to other countries, the crappy conditions that it happens under elsewhere and is definitly better than starving somewhere and/or being crippled for years. 
The slaughter ban didnt' stop slaughter, it just made "getting there" a lot harder on the horses.Is THAT humane? I don't think so. I love horses as much as anyone, but do feel slaughter should be back in the US.


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## Whipple

barefoothooves, I agree with you. But I also think that the way slaughter is done, as Angel_Leaguer said, is cruel and should be done better. If it MUST be done, it should be done better. In my mind, and this is my opinion, either stop the slaughter and breeding entirely or better regulate the slaughter. But I doubt that will happen. Its not a fast enough fix for society nowadays.

I do have a question though, if you could not afford your dog, would you send it off to slaughter so the meat could be used in China? What about your cat? (theoretically in case you do not have a dog or cat)


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## MN Tigerstripes

Whipple - I don't mean to be rude but I don't think your question to barefoot is fair or realistic. 

I wouldn't send my dog/cat to the slaughter plant and onwards to China for people to eat... but I wouldn't send my horse either. 

However, a really important thing to remember is it costs A LOT of money to put down and dispose of a horse's body in some areas of the country. We just had to put our gelding down this last fall. Vet told us about $175 and rendering truck told us about $185. A lot of people don't have enough land to bury a horse or the resources (gun/experience) to kill a horse w/o a vet & rendering truck. 

My point is that if you don't have any money, like you cannot pay rent/mortgage, & wondering how you are going to feed your family... how are you going to find the money to get the vet & rendering truck out to humanely dispose of your starving horse? For a lot of people esp now it is coming down to which mouths to feed or which bodies to put a roof over. It isn't easy to give horses away in some parts of the country... The abandonment statistics are through the roof in most parts of the country. So yeah I think we need slaughter plants, but they need to be regulated and the transport to the plant needs to be regulated to make it as humane as possible. The same as it is (or should be) for cows...


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## MN Tigerstripes

Sorry my reply is all jumbled and not totally what I was trying to say... hopefully everyone gets the jist of it


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## Whipple

Sorry, I meant to be more clear. I was basing my question more on the bond issue. Like are we more bonded to our dogs and cats because theyre house pets, and horses are livestock. Is that why some people find it easier?
My answers are quite jumbled, but I understand the jist of yours. And I agree. I wish that nessesary things were done better, or the easier things (like rendering, ect) was cheaper. Life isnt fair, and most of the time it just plain sucks!


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## MN Tigerstripes

LOL, at least we understand eachother. I think for some people its easier because they are livestock... but I think for most people its a pretty traumatic experience no matter what they have to do.


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## Iluvjunior

i would in no way sign this petition before they banned slughter house most were killed for orse meat and thats wrong on soooo any levels! and if the adoption fee could be a little less people would buy them


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## Hoofprints in the Sand

Xoras said:


> There's more value placed on the life of a human child than on an animal. Even if you think of the horse as your child, it's still an animal.
> It's how society works, and you should realize that while, ideally, every little girl or boy has loving parents and that cute, fat little pinto pony in his or her backyard, this isn't an ideal world.
> 
> It's a painful subject, I completely understand why a lot of people are against it, but that's the reality of life. And wouldn't you honestly rather there be regulated slaughter so that the horses don't feel any pain at all or would you rather have them carted off to Mexico where they die in a particularly agonizing, painful death?
> 
> Think on it for a bit.
> 
> And if you really think slaughter is bad, do you have a suggestion on where those unwanted horses should go?


I personally agree with jemmamalone on this one -- to me, I don't think it's any more "right" to kill a healthy animal just because it has no home than it would be to do that to a human. And I'm sorry, but I don't have kids yet so my horse (and 2 dogs) ARE my "kids", I don't care what anybody says to me or how anyone else wants to judge me on that. 

However, Xoras is right about one thing -- without REGULATED slaughter in the US, they're being carted off to Mexico or Canada and treated VERY poorly on the way there and once there - nothing humane about it. So while I do not support slaughtering just because it's hard to find homes for the horses, if it's going to happen anyway, I would rather it happen in the U.S. under STRICT regulated laws and in a humane manner. Unfortunately, the last time these were legal in the U.S., there was nothing humane about most of them...so enforcing the laws would be the particularly hard part.

Sorry if anyone disagrees with me, it's kind of a sensitive subject for me, since my horse was a rescue...I'm SO glad no one decided to give up on her and send her off to slaughter - she's the most beautiful, loving mare I've ever met and SO willing to learn!! I'm glad she was given the second chance that many were not. I get really upset whenever I hear stories of horses being sent away to slaugher, esp. the ones who are young and had nothing wrong with them, just weren't wanted anymore or their owners weren't able to afford them. It's tough, I know people are practically GIVING horses away these days because they're too much money, but I believe that if you truly love someone or something, you'll find a way to take care of them or find a way to find a good home for them. I would personally never send my horse to slaughter.


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## iridehorses

Montana is very close to reopening their slaughter houses. Montana horse slaughter bill passes after impassioned debate, awaits governor's signature | Markets | Market News | Canadian Business Online 

Although there is such headed debate over the subject, it is a fact of life and perhaps having one under scrutiny in the US will make it more humane.


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## jumpwhat007

onetoomany said:


> Not to rain on your opinion but the two issues are not comparable. People are not a possession- horses are. By being a possession they fall into one of two catagories a need or a want. Horses are most definitely a want, a very, very large and costly one and thereby become a luxury.


Not to rain on YOUR opinion, but horses are a need as well. 20% of my states population is Amish, they need horses to survive, to take care of their crops, and for transportation. So in some cases, horses are also needs. 

In my opinion, children are a great example. Children are not "Needs" either. You don't need children. You also don't need to have them. We have an extremely large overpopulation of people as well as horses. So what do we do? STOP BREEDING THEM.


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## jumpwhat007

ALSO. People seem to disregard the care of animals because they cannot speak. They still feel pain. They still feel lonliness. And they are absolutely no different than humans.


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## bilyeuamber

I would rather horses have a quick get-it-over death at a slaughter house than literally starve to death somewhere. when they go to slaughter their lives end quickly instead of slow and miserable. Slow and miserable is the worst way that anything could die, so slaughter is helpful in the prevention of starving and neglected horses. Also, cows go to slaughter for the food we eat. I have no problem with that, but everyone puts the focus on the horses. Cows are animals too, people have their show cows and stuff too. Anyway... slaughter has been around forever and it is helpful in the prevention of neglected horses. If people have a problem with slaughter, then they need to stop buying purebred horses and go adopt one or rescue one.


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## onetoomany

Sorry Jumpwhat but I put people up a lot higher than animals. Sure animals have feelings but I have a lot more. Want to know something about your Amish? Those horses are tools for the Amish and believe me a lot of the horses you see going to slaughter come out of the Amish community. The Amish for sure view their horses as a possession. I would suggest reading Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal", it might put things into perspective for you. I just don't think people and animals are comprabable at all. 

I agree that overbreeding is the root of the problem but sadly there are always going to be people that will breed whatever they want. So be it but there has to be a place for those unwanted horses to go. I'd rather see a horse go to a slaughter house than starve in a field.


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## NewHeart

jumpwhat007 said:


> Not to rain on YOUR opinion, but horses are a need as well. 20% of my states population is Amish, they need horses to survive, to take care of their crops, and for transportation. So in some cases, horses are also needs.
> 
> In my opinion, children are a great example. Children are not "Needs" either. You don't need children. You also don't need to have them. We have an extremely large overpopulation of people as well as horses. So what do we do? STOP BREEDING THEM.


Actually, When you have children they do in fact become a NEED. If you cannot afford a horse, you can always sell it. I don't know about you, but I somehow see a problem trying to sell my child, not to mention the fact that it is illegal. 

I do agree that the horse population is quite crowded, and that putting a stop on some breeding operations would be a good option....In theory. You are always going to have people who over-breed, people who hoard, and people who do not have the resources to euthanize by means of a vet. 

At the end of the day in our economy, cash is king. The reality of the situation is that not everyone is going to view their horses as pets or family members. They are going to be viewed as livestock and profit, you are always going to have the people who would rather have cash/check in hand, vs. paying to have a horse euthanized, paying a vet call and paying to have a rendering service come, or finding a way to dispose of the body themselves.


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## county

Actually the number of horses has nothing to do with how many get slaughtered demand for the meat and profit margin does same as any species of livestock. If the number of animals dictatred how many we slaughtered then we'd be slaughtering them at record numbers. Fact is we have over 9 million horses and slaughter less then 1%. When we had 6 million we slaughtered 5%. 

And the fact is many horses have always gone to Can. for slaughter its much closer to Can. from the northern states then to Tx. We've hauled horses from here in Mn. to Can. for many many years its only a few hours to get there why haul all the way to Tx.?


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## Trissacar

*No way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!* >:-( *VERY ANGRY!*


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## Trissacar

Xoras said:


> Except, y'know, there are too many horses and not enough little girls to make happy.
> 
> And I see horse slaughter as a necessary evil. Without it, we'd have a huge overpopulation of horses and few people to take them. That would probably cause a shortage of feed, of course, to feed all the overpopulated horses. The shortage would drive up the prices of feed, and at some point people wouldn't be able to afford it, and their horses would starve to death or be put down, most likely.
> 
> See? Necessary evil. If they're going to allow slaughter again, I most definitely think it should be regulated with strict laws.


Well the put em down.
Don't shock them till they can't stand hang em upside down and slit their throats!!! :evil:


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## Trissacar

bilyeuamber said:


> I would rather horses have a quick get-it-over death at a slaughter house than literally starve to death somewhere. when they go to slaughter their lives end quickly instead of slow and miserable. Slow and miserable is the worst way that anything could die, so slaughter is helpful in the prevention of starving and neglected horses. Also, cows go to slaughter for the food we eat. I have no problem with that, but everyone puts the focus on the horses. Cows are animals too, people have their show cows and stuff too. Anyway... slaughter has been around forever and it is helpful in the prevention of neglected horses. If people have a problem with slaughter, then they need to stop buying purebred horses and go adopt one or rescue one.


Its not painless look at my other post.


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## RubaiyateBandit

I think slaughter plants should be reopened, but more strictly regulated than they were. The only way I can think of diminishing the need is to stop breeding all together -- not just the 'backyard breeders', but the 'responsible' ones, too. Because even the people breeding top-quality horses are pumping out piles of foals, and even they have the chance of breeding undesirable horses, or even horses that they just can't sell for whatever reason. In a perfect world, every horse that hits the ground is automatically of good enough temperament and conformation to, at the very least, be some little girl's dream pony, some farmer's work horse, or some family's expensive yard decoration. But the fact of the matter is, not every horse is suited to be ridden, or was just born in the wrong place and put up for sale for more than that little girl or that farmer can afford. And the breeder certainly can't just keep every horse that they can't sell, and rescue centers can't hold on to every horse that stumbles through their gates. 
In my area, there are several stories going around. I won't vouch for their accuracy, but they're real possibilities. One that I know is true, because I saw it with my own eyes, is of a local breeder -- He breeds Paints, high-quality, high-dollar, real nice horses, at least for around these parts. He hauled seven of his horses -- nothing wrong with them, mind you, he just couldn't sell them -- to an auction house and didn't sell a single one. Out in the parking lot, he refused to load them in his own trailer -- I flat out told everyone that if they wanted one, they could take it home, and whatever horses don't leave the lot, he was going to haul them up to Canada and drop them off at the slaughter houses. Only two of those horses walked off the lot in someone else's hands, and one of them came back the very next auction. 
Another one my uncle tells: A friend of his was at a riding trail and he left his trailer parked in the lot. When he came back, there were two horses in his trailer and no one else around. He called the DNR to get rid of them, and they refused to take them. This guy had to call for a second trailer, because there wasn't room to put his own horses in his own trailer. My uncle got one of those horses, and I don't know what happened to the other, but the one he got is probably one of the craziest S.O.B.'s I've ever seen, and he had to have it put down because, after four trainers and three years of work, it still couldn't be so much as haltered, and had actually given me a slight concussion.
Other stories floating around -- I'm sure some of you have heard variants -- include horses being left behind in a move, or let loose on the road, dropped off in people's pastures, etc., etc.
Now, would you rather these horses slowly starve or be attacked by wild animals, or be shot at by non-horse-friendly people who want them off their property, or other equally painful deaths because they were abandoned, or suffer a quick death at the hands of a regulated slaughterhouse?
Everyone says that slaughtered horses could be some little girl's dream, but not every little girl can afford a horse, and not every little girl is suited to have one. There's also the fact that, not every little girl is going to grow up into a horse-loving woman or teenager. It's like puppies and Easter bunnies -- the novel of owning a pony wears off, no one wants to take care of it after awhile, and it either gets sold, or is left neglected. I work at the only tack shop in town, and I've seen all sorts of parents come in lately, with good intentions, I'm sure, telling us "We just bought a horse for our little Jane. What do we need?" So many of them are entirely unprepared for the responsibility. So many families that previously wanted to buy a horse for their kids but couldn't afford the initial buying fee are now running out and snatching up a matching pair of pinto-ponies for a total of $50, and not thinking about what it costs to raise those horses.

If this were a perfect world where every horse got the care it needed, and everyone had enough money to properly raise their families and their horses together, I'd be against slaughter all the way; But, in a perfect world like that, there would still be slaughter -- there would still be that market for meat, just like there is for beef and pork and chicken.


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## jessetjames

Slaughter plants deff need to be opend with out them we would have wild horses running around dieing on people land roting and dieing away hidden in cramped stalls. and the list goes im. 

Personaly human life goes up and beyond any animal. No offence but Humans have way more right to live then animals do. If I Had to die or my horse id deff pic my horse once again no effence i just cant stand when some people put horses on the same level as humans. Yes they should be treated with respect and fed properly but humans have more rights ect.


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## Trissacar

jessetjames said:


> Slaughter plants deff need to be opend with out them we would have wild horses running around dieing on people land roting and dieing away hidden in cramped stalls. and the list goes im.
> 
> Personaly human life goes up and beyond any animal. No offence but Humans have way more right to live then animals do. If I Had to die or my horse id deff pic my horse once again no effence i just cant stand when some people put horses on the same level as humans. Yes they should be treated with respect and fed properly but humans have more rights ect.


So to be clear your ok with horses being shocked till they can't stand hung upside down and have their throats slit?


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## jessetjames

Trissacar said:


> So to be clear your ok with horses being shocked till they can't stand hung upside down and have their throats slit?


its better then having them rome the country or sitting in an un cared for stall starving to death. Slaughter is better for the animal then starving or being malnourished/treated and the list goes on.


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## Trissacar

jessetjames said:


> its better then having them rome the country or sitting in an un cared for stall starving to death. Slaughter is better for the animal then starving or being malnourished/treated and the list goes on.


So death is better then a cruddy life? If you asked them what do you think they would say.


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## ohmyitschelle

This is a debate thats gone on for decades... and everyone will always have different opinions on the subject. I help rescue horses here in NZ, and despite not being of a rich background I try really hard to help the lives of perfectly sound horses escape the bullet.
However, I completely agree it's a neccessary evil. I've been to the slaughter yard over here, and I've seen a dead, decaying cut up horse. I saw the paddock with the horses who were next on the chopping block. And I saw how young some were, and the old, and the barely functional. It opened my eyes up to a world I thought of as evil... I still don't agree with some things. I believe it ought to be quick and painless. But so is having the vet give them an injection too. There have been studies (why oh why can I not find the article lol) where euthanising a horse is traumatic. It makes the heart rate increase, and the horse can panic, and suffer from the ordeal, unlike cats and dogs, where it slows the heart rate down. My friend had her gelding put down, and had him injected with a couple of other things just to make him so dopey that he wouldn't feel the suffering so much. I prefer the bullet, even if it makes me sick thinking about it.
Does this make me love horses less? Or sound like a neglectful person? Well I guess to some, they'll find my opinion inconceivable. But I know that if my horse was to die (from serious injury) and I couldn't afford cremate, or bury etc, I would send off to the slaughter. I know the local man who does it, and he is a very kind person, if he sees a horse who shouldn't really be in his paddocks, he holds out, and tries to find it a new home. 
But I agree with others... cows, pigs and chickens suffer death for us to eat too... but you never hear about their injustice. I love horses more than most animals, and thinking of their death is incredibly hard. I try my best to save, but unfortunately not everyone has the money to take on unwanted horses and they end up in bad places. If adoption prices were lowered, then we'd have more people with lack of knowledge taking on horses and then neglecting them... there's a downside to every solution, so we're d*mned if we do and we're d*amned if we don't.
Just my opinion, and I respect all the others that have been said also... for both sides of the argument.
x


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## jessetjames

Trissacar said:


> So death is better then a cruddy life? If you asked them what do you think they would say.


so you would rather but stuck in a small prison cell that was never cleaned and u never got food and u never left it. rather the dieing?? 

I totally agree with u ohmyitschelle


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## Trissacar

jessetjames said:


> so you would rather but stuck in a small prison cell that was never cleaned and u never got food and u never left it. rather the dieing??
> 
> I totally agree with u ohmyitschelle


I think they would rather live a cruddy life then no life at all. So between life and death I think I would rather live in poverty then not live at all.
Theres no reason why they should be killed this way. They could have them put down if necessary. You might say "well these people can't afford it." Well they shouldn't have gotten the horse in the first place. As long as they are getting _paid_ for their irresponsibility we are encouraging the disease. They need to be held accountable for their actions. There are much bigger issues concerning this. Also they crimes that are committed and associated with horse slaughter raisese this issue even higher.


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## MN Tigerstripes

Trissacar said:


> You might say "well these people can't afford it." Well they shouldn't have gotten the horse in the first place.


Thats not a realistic statement. If it was then only people rich enough to never run out of money should own a horse. As much as you would like to think, things don't always work out. I don't see anything wrong with REGULATED horse slaughter. Of course they shouldn't be killed terribly, but neither should any other animal. Bolt to the head is how they do it with most cows, then they are hung to drain the blood before it can ruin the meat. By closing the US slaughter plants we've only made horses suffer worse. Anyways, this really is a pointless argument. Most people seem to have their minds made up and aren't going to even bother to listen to other's viewpoints.


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## ohmyitschelle

Trissacar said:


> You might say "well these people can't afford it." Well they shouldn't have gotten the horse in the first place.


 
I see the point you're making, but financial situations DO change. In the current situation of recession, there are so many horses up on the market because people cannot afford to own them anymore... what happens when their horse is overlooked, months on the market, they put it up for free, and someone else snaps it up, just to have no knowledge, but thinking "wahey a horse!" and it ends up being sent to slaughter because the novelty wore off and they wanted to make some cash. Believe me, this IS happening. Every little girl wanted their own pony as kids, and some get the opportunity by buying a cheap horse... and then knowing nothing about how to care for it. Over here our rescue organisations like the SPCA, MAF, ILPH struggle with the amount of cases they get and some of them cannot help because there is no room for any more animals on the property. It doesn't just happen with horses, people are trying to "live the dream", buy a lifestyle block, and get a calf, lamb and a few goats, maybe horses too. But when the novelty wears off these horses can be left to dehydrate, starve in paddocks overrun with manure and suffer conditions far worse. I'd rather not live in poverty if it were me. But that's just me. I know people are responsible for their animals, but there are some decent people in desperate situations today. If they cannot find homes for these animals, and it gets to the point where they for go food for themselves, then I can see how horses end up in positions we really don't wish for them. It's not ideal... but its happening to all animals, until people stop overbreeding, then the overpopulation will continue. Not everyone is so fortunate. Besides, if it was left to those who had unlimited finances to save all these horses, I bet you anything we'd have more of a problem. The racing industry itself is a main cause to so many horses ending up in slaughter. But that industry itself brings in a lot of money. It's a hard world. I don't like it, don't get me wrong, my heart swells when I hear about the cruelty, but my head understands why we have to have these types of places. I don't agree how its done... hopefully one day they'll change how it's done but for now my opinion still stands, it's a neccessary evil. 
x


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## county

How should it be done? Horses are slaughtered same way cattle are shot with a captive bolt, jugler cut to bleed them out, hung up by the back legs to be skinned and gutted. Pretty basic system thats been used a long time. Personally I don't see horse slaughter as a necessary evil any more then any other species. People eat meat so its necessary there is no evil to it unless you don't eat meat then I could see why one might think so. 

BTW racing isn't the main cause for horse slaughter people wanting the meat is. Racing doesn't even supply the most horses the private backyard owner does. But truth be told any horse has a very low chance at being slaughtered we don't even use 1% of the total number for that purpose.


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## MN Tigerstripes

County- I'm assuming she is talking about those videos from some Mexican slaughter plant? I know in the states its done like you say. We toured a slaughter plant for my school and they went through everything and as a meat eater it wasn't bad. Personally I feel better hunting  but I eat meat so I don't have a problem with killing animals just as long as it is humane.


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## Juniper

If you say you love horses, think about it this way. Very simple. Closing regulated U.S. slaughter houses has caused great suffering for many horses.
A rescue person I know, who's whole life is rescuing horses from slaughter plants, has said the same thing. It was a simple minded "feel good" solution for some people with no thought to the suffering they would actually cause horses.


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## county

Those videos from Mex. are some of the mom and pop type places that have slaughtered with a certain type knife for ever. The horses from the U.S. go to the brand new Beltex plant that was built and opened just before the state of Tx. banned horse slaughter. All the horses killed there go out of country same as when Beltex was in this country and everything has to meet EU Standards same as when they were here. Don't judge horse slaughter by the videos of private Mex. systems. Two totally different things.


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## county

People can love horses and be against slaughter same as people can love horses and be for slaughter. One has nothing to do with the other.


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## MN Tigerstripes

county said:


> People can love horses and be against slaughter same as people can love horses and be for slaughter. One has nothing to do with the other.


I agree 100%


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## ohmyitschelle

county said:


> BTW racing isn't the main cause for horse slaughter people wanting the meat is. Racing doesn't even supply the most horses the private backyard owner does. But truth be told any horse has a very low chance at being slaughtered we don't even use 1% of the total number for that purpose.





Over here, racing IS one of the reasons why horses go for slaughter. Here in the city I live is one of the biggest standardbred racing scenes in NZ. Because of this, we have an overpopulation of the breed. They are bred for the track, but we know statitically, most of these horses break down/aren't fast enough/refuse to work in the conditions etc... and there is a surplus of these horses being "sold or given away as hacks"... as a Standardbred horse owner myself, I've helped many of these horses in their transfer to riding. However, because they keep breeding for the track and the majority end up being chucked out the back door when their "use" is up, most of these horses are to be dog meat. When I visited the slaughter yard, there were many youngsters with one of the local SB stud farm's halters on their faces... and the majority were of this particular breed, only two being TB and a crossbred. So I do have to say that because a lot of the horses here in NZ are bred for racing, a lot end up going to the slaughter yard due to no one wanting to take them on.
No, I don't need to watch the videos, I've seen them before. I know what is entailed, and I accept what they have to do to get the job done. It costs money to put a bullet in their head, or inject them humanely, its why these places work on getting the job done quick and cost effectively. I've read "The Jungle" a book that one of the US Presidents read ... think it was Roosevelt.. describing the step by step process of killing cattle and pigs... it wasn't pretty, but I get why they have to do it this way. If they found a way to do it better, then sure I'm all for it... please excuse how I put my last comment, I meant to those who are so against it, its not nice, but it has to be done that way. My apologies for the confusion.
x


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## meganmoo

i think they should only kill the seriously poorly 1s, i would recommend to them to maybe think about selling horses instead, that way they would properly make lots more money?


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## county

In this country some race horses go to slaughter also but its illegal to use them in dog food. The people that eat horse meat are no different then those that eat any species of animal they don't want crippled, skinny, poorly conditioned animals for their meat supply they want young fat ones. How many people do you know that want a beef steak from an old crippled cow? 

Not sure what you mean by telling them to sell horses to make money thats exactly what their doing when they send horses to slaughter.


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## Nicole88

It is not a nice thing to think about obviously, but slaughter in any sense is not a pleasant thing. As some people have said, it is necessary. When any species of animal, with humans being the exception (which explains our ever-increasing overpopulation of the planet), begins to grow and exceed the space, food sources, etc that are available, they are slaughtered. Think hunting season for deer, fishing seasons, and so on. 

Humans are irresponsible, slowly ruining and depleting our resources and destroying the earth. We are nowhere near responsible enough to restrict over-breeding of horses, and thus we have run into a problem of overpopulation. Slaughter is the solution. Unless someone can give the human race a giant smack on the back of the head, this is not going to change any time soon, and until then, what else can we do? Regulated slaughter is the best and most REASONABLE answer. Some of you need to stop living in fantasy land where people are kind, responsible animal lovers, because the fact is, very few people are.


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## Trissacar

MN Tigerstripes said:


> Thats not a realistic statement. If it was then only people rich enough to never run out of money should own a horse. As much as you would like to think, things don't always work out. I don't see anything wrong with REGULATED horse slaughter. Of course they shouldn't be killed terribly, but neither should any other animal. Bolt to the head is how they do it with most cows, then they are hung to drain the blood before it can ruin the meat. By closing the US slaughter plants we've only made horses suffer worse. Anyways, this really is a pointless argument. Most people seem to have their minds made up and aren't going to even bother to listen to other's viewpoints.


I didn't say rich you think 180 dollars is rich?! PFF!:-x


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## MN Tigerstripes

Trissacar- Its more than $180 to euthanize and dispose of a horse's body. Actually around $400-$500 and if you've lost your job, can't find a new one, and can barely pay the mortgage or put food on the table for your kids thats a lot of money. I recently had to put a horse down and thats what all the vets/rendering trucks were quoting me.


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## NewHeart

MNTigerstripes makes a very good point. You always have to factor in the price of the vet call, the price to have a rendering truck come, plus the actual price to euthanize. At the end of the day it can get very costly, and obviously not everyone is going to be in the same financial situation to be able to afford all of that. People are losing their jobs all the time, and when it comes down to feeding their families or feeding their horses, most people are going to feed their families.


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## Trissacar

MN Tigerstripes said:


> Trissacar- Its more than $180 to euthanize and dispose of a horse's body. Actually around $400-$500 and if you've lost your job, can't find a new one, and can barely pay the mortgage or put food on the table for your kids thats a lot of money. I recently had to put a horse down and thats what all the vets/rendering trucks were quoting me.


I've heard it being as low as 180 dollars. But maybe I'm wrong. Haven't you people ever heard of surrendering your horse!? And don't tell me 'there all full' cuz thats just not true.


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## Trissacar

NewHeart said:


> MNTigerstripes makes a very good point. You always have to factor in the price of the vet call, the price to have a rendering truck come, plus the actual price to euthanize. At the end of the day it can get very costly, and obviously not everyone is going to be in the same financial situation to be able to afford all of that. People are losing their jobs all the time, and when it comes down to feeding their families or feeding their horses, most people are going to feed their families.


SO when they figure out they can't feed the horse they should do something about it this is not the answer. This is despicable. I wonder how many people for this have actually seen the horse's slaughtered.


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## Trissacar

Nicole88 said:


> It is not a nice thing to think about obviously, but slaughter in any sense is not a pleasant thing. As some people have said, it is necessary. When any species of animal, with humans being the exception (which explains our ever-increasing overpopulation of the planet), begins to grow and exceed the space, food sources, etc that are available, they are slaughtered. Think hunting season for deer, fishing seasons, and so on.
> 
> Humans are irresponsible, slowly ruining and depleting our resources and destroying the earth. We are nowhere near responsible enough to restrict over-breeding of horses, and thus we have run into a problem of overpopulation. Slaughter is the solution. Unless someone can give the human race a giant smack on the back of the head, this is not going to change any time soon, and until then, what else can we do? Regulated slaughter is the best and most REASONABLE answer. Some of you need to stop living in fantasy land where people are kind, responsible animal lovers, because the fact is, very few people are.


Yes we are capable of not over breeding horses. AND there is a big difference between slaughtering a domestic animal and a wild or one bred for meat.
So in your opinion we can do the same things to dogs and cats? We should eat them? Slit them by their throats?
I don't care how people spin this. Its wrong cruel and inhuman.


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## county

Its no more wrong and cruel then eating any other animal. We can't eat dogs and cats because its illegal here to do so horses are not. And it doesn't matter how many of an animal there is if no one wants to eat it none get slaughtered. Right now we slaughter way less then when we had 35% fewer horses so I really don't understand how someone thinks the reason we slaughter an animal is because theres to many


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## dvlqh

I live in an area where two years ago there were 6 factories in town. There is one today, and 1/4 of their employees are laid off. We are a farming community with very little industry. Our auction houses are getting $5.00 out of registered foals and yearlings. Many horses are given away, but it comes to a point where they is no where else for them to go. We have people losing their houses everywhere. Unfortunately, at a time like this people need to get rid of that horse. At least sending it to a slaughter house means the horse wont starve to death. I have been to the farm where these horses stay before going to Canada which is only an hour away. These horses are fed well and taken care of. They are not loaded onto double decker buses which is illegal here. They also ride anything that looks decent and try to place them before shipment. This country has been very spoiled for a long time. We dont have to scrape for food the way other countries do. If it meant your kids went hungry or your horse went hungry, I would hope the kids would win. We have a point earning Quarter Horse stud. He has thrown us beautiful babies in the past, but until this economy gets back on track, he will have to stay celibate. Not meaning any offense, but it really gets me that people think of horses as much or more than people. I love my horses, but at the end of the day, they are livestock. I have no problem eating a chop or a steak. I would be a hypocrite if I didnt want someone else to eat horse meat because I dont like it.


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## Juniper

well said Nicole88. Just curious about the anti slaughter people. Do you eat meat, eggs, drink milk? Cows, chickens, pigs can be just as endearing as horses if you have ever owned them. If you do not pay a little extra and buy free range chicken eggs you are contributing to the suffering of millions of chickens. They are stuffed in tiny cages one on top of each other under lights 24/7.


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## NewHeart

Trissacar said:


> SO when they figure out they can't feed the horse they should do something about it this is not the answer. This is despicable. I wonder how many people for this have actually seen the horse's slaughtered.


Like I said before, not everyone is in the same financial position to treat the situation the same. Sure they can sell the horse, but the market is poor right now, there are not enough buyers per how many sellers there are. As far as surrendering it, rescuers can only take in so many horses and when there are not enough people out there adopting, they do get overcrowded.


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## MN Tigerstripes

I just read an article about the horse rescues in CA being overwhelmed. Like over 100% more drop offs in the last year than they usually have. They're putting a lot of horses down. I would assume that at some point they will run out of money and have to start turning people away...


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## Nicole88

Trissacar said:


> Yes we are capable of not over breeding horses. AND there is a big difference between slaughtering a domestic animal and a wild or one bred for meat.
> So in your opinion we can do the same things to dogs and cats? We should eat them? Slit them by their throats?
> I don't care how people spin this. Its wrong cruel and inhuman.


If you have a plan of action to get North Americans to cut down on horse breeding so that, financially, we are able to properly care for the horses that need help, then by all means, share that plan with us. 

I am VERY against inhumane slaughter. VERY against it, and nowhere in my post did I say, "horses should be slaughtered by having their throats slit". Believe it or not, those of us on this board who are in support of horse slaughter do love horses just as much as you. Laws need to be put into place to ensure that the process of animal slaughter is as humane as possible, because slaughter itself is basically unavoidable.

And if you would like to bring up the subject of cats and dogs, there are thousands of Fido's and Fluffy's being euthanized every single day, BECAUSE we overbreed them and people are unable to care for them, and so they are surrendered. Welcome to reality... it is unpleasant, but it's life, and all we can do at this point is work towards laws that govern a more humane method of euthanasia or slaughter. Help the animals that way.


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## shmurmer4

Pretty sure I agree with everything Nicole88 has said.


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## Juniper

That is a very good point. Cats and dogs are technically "slaughtered" every day. The only difference is cats and dogs go into the landfill rather than being used for meat. Not sure the animal appreciates the difference. Even the most anti euthanasia humane societies have to decide which is more cruel for the truly unadoptable pet, to be put to sleep (eufimism for death) or live out it's life in a cage at the humane society. Lots of horses are not "adoptable" for many reasons. They can end up in some very cruel circumstances. Trissacar, how can you say it is less wrong to kill a cow or chicken or pig for meat than a horse? I honestly do not understand that. Are you a complete vegetarian? A cow has the same feelings or soul or whatever you want to name it as a horse. Have you ever seen a mama cow take care of it's calf? Pigs are extremely intelligent and capable of suffering. Go to a large pig farm and watch what happens there and then tell me it is better to be slaughtered as an animal raised for meat or having had a life as a "domestic" animal first. I actually think it is better to be, for example, a 4-H raised "pet" pig who goes to slaughter than an assembly line pig.


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## Spastic_Dove

I think Nicole said it all.


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## katiecelia

I get most of everyone's points on this matter, but I would rather shoot the horse and get it over with, over sending it to a slaughter house, because if it was regulated, how would they kill them?

SAY NO TO DRUGS!
Lol.


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## county

Same way they kill cattle when slaughtered with a captive bolt.


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## Nicole88

The industry would need a complete overhaul.. from transportation, holding, all the way to the actual method of slaughter. It would not just be about changing laws, but changing how the workers think about and perform their jobs... the people who work in this industry are often (but not always, don't get me wrong!) in a frame of mind where the animal that they are trailering, or killing, or whatever, is just a piece of meat. They are abusive, inflicting unnecessary pain along the way. 

I obviously do not expect to see horses riding comfortably up to the slaughter house in decked out trailers, or people handling them like they are Secretariat or Mr. Ed, but the entire process needs to be more humane. That is what is important here, and THAT is what people should be fighting for.


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## county

Nicole88 where in the world did you come up with that!!?? I have worked in slaughter plants, raised livestock, and hauled them to slaughter for over 40 years and its VERY rare anyone is abusive. Your post shows you have no idea about the subject. Are there cases of poor handling? Yes same as theres cases of abuse in someones back yard but their very rare. People don't get paid for abused, crippled, and dead livestock and thats a big reason why their in the business. To get paid, no income no business.


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## starlinestables

Breed Organizations won't do anything about over-breeding because even though they are Non Profit these people still want to keep their jobs!

I think all breeding animals both mares and stallions should be inspected to meet certain breed standards before their progeny can be registered. Meaning if they have bad conformation and undesirable genes they shouldn't be aloud to breed. I don't know if that will make a huge impact on horse populations but I don't think it would hurt either.


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## county

I have no need or desire to have someone else tell me what I want when I breed my horses. I only care about what I and my customers want. But I don't see what that has to do with slaughter? Conformation and breeding are not what sends any animal to slaughter demand for meat and profit do. Every horse could have perfect conformation and if demand and profit are up their going to get eaten. Every horse could have terrable conformation and if demand and profit are 0 thats how many would get slaughtered.


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## Nicole88

> Nicole88 where in the world did you come up with that!!?? I have worked in slaughter plants, raised livestock, and hauled them to slaughter for over 40 years and its VERY rare anyone is abusive. Your post shows you have no idea about the subject. Are there cases of poor handling? Yes same as theres cases of abuse in someones back yard but their very rare. People don't get paid for abused, crippled, and dead livestock and thats a big reason why their in the business. To get paid, no income no business.


And is "poor handling" any different from abuse? You are saying the same thing, using different words. I'm glad that YOU don't treat them that way, but it DOES happen. 

Cramming too many horses into small, dirty trailers travelling long distances is abuse. The horses are not watered or fed during travel. When I am saying abuse, I'm not saying that people stand there and beat the horses sensless for fun.. I'm saying that the methods of transportation, holding and slaughter are inhumane and abusive to the animals. Not just horses, but cows, pigs, sheep, etc. I'm sorry you mistook the way I used the word abuse, but I am not wrong, and I do have knowledge on the subject.


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## mls

Nicole88 said:


> but I am not wrong, and I do have knowledge on the subject.


We all have knowledge.

Put what is needed is proof. The great majority of those awful videos circulating are NOT plants in the United States.


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## Spastic_Dove

County I think what you're saying is true for the most part. 
However there is a problem of over breeding as well as the economy. People who may normally euthanise their horse or leave him as a pasture puff are now sending him to auctions/slaughter. I think what she was trying to say (and correct me if I am wrong) is that these horses who do get sent to an auction yard are more likely to get bought if they have desirable traits. Generally speaking, a well put together horse is going to have a better chance than something that looks like 3 horses put together. 

Supply and demand is obviously the biggest factor though. I do not have a problem with slaughter. I feel it is a necessary evil. I love horses and hate the idea of it, but I feel if we can make it as humane as we can, we are making the right steps. 

Horses are not really bred for consumption like cattle or swine. The more horses we breed, the more there will be to go to slaughter or whatever other end. So I think in that way, it contributes. Generally, people want their horses to be sold as performance horses or pets, not meat. If a horse is in demand for performance, breeding, whatever it will be less likely to be sold for meat. 

Conformation and breeding are NOT what sends an animal to slaughter. They may be however the reasons an animal is not chosen to be bought as a riding or breeding horse.

ETA: As far as proof, I have not WORKED in a slaughterhouse. I have however been around them quite a bit and can say that they are definitely being handled in less than ideal situations. It is dirty, cramped, and often unsafe for the horse. As far as the methods for the actual slaughter goes, I can't say for sure. If captive bolt is being used, from what I have read, this is nearly instant. Its not the slaughter itself I see as inhumane, it is the trip up to there.


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## Nicole88

Spastic_Dove said:


> Supply and demand is obviously the biggest factor though. I do not have a problem with slaughter. I feel it is a necessary evil. I love horses and hate the idea of it, but I feel if we can make it as humane as we can, we are making the right steps.


 
Exactly, that is all I am trying to say. It is not nice to think about, but it is necessary.. and I am all for humane slaughter. I think people will be more likely to support a necessary evil if we can make it as painless as possible for the animals.



> ETA: As far as proof, I have not WORKED in a slaughterhouse. I have however been around them quite a bit and can say that they are definitely being handled in less than ideal situations. It is dirty, cramped, and often unsafe for the horse. As far as the methods for the actual slaughter goes, I can't say for sure. If captive bolt is being used, from what I have read, this is nearly instant. Its not the slaughter itself I see as inhumane, it is the trip up to there.


And this was the other point I was making.. laws just need to be put in place to make things easier on the animals going to slaughter.


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## county

No Nicole actually were not saying the same thing I've hauled 1000's of horses and cattle to slaughter as have many people around here and I do not know of any time they were handled poorly. The people that haul them do so for a living and their not going to risk losing their job just to abuse some animals. Does it happen? Yes? Should slaughter be banned because a few do it? Only if were going to ban all slaughter and all people owning animals because a few break the law.

Spastic Dove I agree and have said many times the better bred and conformationed horse has a better chance at not going to slaughhter. But if all horses have perfect conformation the demand for them as food doesn't change. I love beef but if every head of cattle was perfect my desire to eat them isn't going to change. Why would those who enjoy eating horse be any different?


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## county

BTW slaughter horses already have the strictest transport laws of any species of livestock in the U.S.


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## Nicole88

Well county, if you believe that slaughter is humane enough as it is, I guess we will agree to disagree. I think more needs to be done.


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## county

I think more can always be done what I'm saying is the bad is very rare compared to the good. Personally I don't know even one person thats for inhumane slaughter of any species of livestock. I've transported many horses and cattle to slaughter and their done the same way I transport our show cattle and horses.


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## Nicole88

county said:


> I think more can always be done what I'm saying is the bad is very rare compared to the good. Personally I don't know even one person thats for inhumane slaughter of any species of livestock. I've transported many horses and cattle to slaughter and their done the same way I transport our show cattle and horses.


Well I am honestly really glad to hear that. The bad is what tends to be broadcasted... the "horror" videos, etc. and it is good to hear that some places are doing it right. I'm glad someone on here was able to share direct experience.


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## ffdfrontman

So the people against horse slaughter please realize this. HORSES ARE STILL SLAUGHTERED!! intead of being regulated and kept in the US the horse are sold by the 18 wheeler load everyweekend at auction and shipped to Mexico and other places south of the border with NO regulations, NO transport regulations, NO care regulations, etc. 

My 2 cents is this:
1. Why send the money to another country.
2. Why must we slaughter horses in another country with NO regulations on any part of it. It truly is a sad way to die in a torture like setting with various EVIL ways to kill the horse. VS. if kept in the US I am sure there would or has been a regulated way to put the horse down as there is with cattle, chickens, EVEN FISH.
3. I have 3 auction houses within 70 miles of me that hold auctions 3 times a week and I see the 18 wheelers from 1 close by leaving down the highway after each auction. 2 somtimes as many as 6 18 wheelers with MEXICO tags stuffed to the gills with horses. So you can sleep at night comfortable in your northern not close to mexico bed as we here in Texas watch the horses by the truckloads get shipped to be slaughtered in MEXICO.

I am not mad at people for not supporting slaughter as it is a touchy subject with me as well. I will only support it under regulation of killing, processing, transportation, care, and quantity NUMBERS. outside of that I am anti slaughter. However what I am a lil whacked about is the close minds of people who think YIPPY no more slaughter and not a single horse is sold or slaughtered in the US. That is not true it is a multimillion dollar industry in Texas alone that all goes to MEXICO. 

Weak stomachs who are anti slaughter in the US please watch the lovly videos of the non regulated slaughter we in the US send to mexico. Below are the top three results in google when searched. Open your eyes!

http://video.hsus.org/fr_story=06f9474eb9eda0b4c3755080cbe889257722da4b&rf=sitemap

From USDA website:
2008 Department of Agriculture figures, close to 80000 *horses* from the United States traveled to *Mexico* for *slaughter.*

U.S. horse slaughter exports to Mexico increase 312% - January 15, 2008
*U.S. horse slaughter exports to Mexico increase 312%*
*Despite American plant closures, slaughter continues across the border*


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## Crimsonhorse01

Its nice to see that we have someone here that actually hauls livestock, the right way even. There are always people that break the law and they are usually the minority, yet we always hear about them.
I am glad that this petition is started. I'm tired of seeing too many nice horses getting starved or have to take a long trip to Canada. 
Horses are indeed being used for consumption in the United States now. Everyone should have heard of the horses in Florida. But in Montana I know of a family that Had to butcher one of their horses because of the flood of horses and hungry children. I am pretty sure there are others.

I really wish people would care about their neighbors as much as they do the animals.


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## Juniper

People who are against slaughter should read that ffdfrontman. It really bothers me when "animal lovers" support laws that are not thought through. Slaughter may be horrible in their minds but by outlawing it they are creating so much more suffering. It feels good to them to be against slaughter but, yes, what about the horses who now have to go to Mexico. Do they even consider that, when they lay down on their pillow safe and snug at night?


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## roro

One word: *Euthanize.*

Why waste all this effort, time, money, and materials on a slaughterhouse when you can choose euthanizing or shooting them in the head? I think it is a lot more humane to let the horse die in a place that he likes and is familiar with. If you don't have the heart or the money to afford euthanizing or shooting and would rather send him to a cold strange place for his last moments because Mexico does it then maybe you shouldn't have a horse.


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## paintsrule

Slaughter is neccesary, and horses are livestock, deal with it. Just because one breed was picked out to be riding and working horses doesnt mean they get the keys to the kingdom and are atomatically given rights to a green pasture till they die of old age. Sorry but horses are still raised for meat and in many societys thats ALL horses are, good, yummy, meat. 
There are so many unwanted horses out there dying they need somewhere to go, and people need food, so kill em, end there suffering and feed people who depend on it...i myself see no probelm with it. Horses are possesions and livestock, they may be friends to some, just like a steer, chicken or pig, heck go on youtube people do CHICKEN AGILITY, like dog agility but with chickens NO JOKE, but chickens are still livestock in the end. I do wish it was more humane, that would be wonderful, but its not ALL bad, like you see. Anti slaughter people take the worst of the worst clips, stick them together and say look how bad it is, now attack the government when its not that bad. 
Go hug your horse and keep him from being unwanted or becoming livestock, or grab a chicken and teach it to shake, but still they will be food, to some people and thats ok, cause it is impossible for horses to ever become extinct...theres to many of them.


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## paintsrule

roro said:


> One word: *Euthanize.*
> 
> Why waste all this effort, time, money, and materials on a slaughterhouse when you can choose euthanizing or shooting them in the head? I think it is a lot more humane to let the horse die in a place that he likes and is familiar with. If you don't have the heart or the money to afford euthanizing or shooting and would rather send him to a cold strange place for his last moments because Mexico does it then maybe you shouldn't have a horse.


Because people in different societys need food and the poison in the euthaniza stops them from being edible anymore once you kill them with it. We arent the only people out there and the other peoples tastebuds crave horse and need horse, like we crave and need beef.


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## Sunny06

No need to bring this pointless thread back.


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## Juniper

Yes, roro I agree, euthanasia is ideal. And a long pampered old life in a big pasture. That is what I plan for our horses. But that is not the reality, now is it,for a lot of horses. So, do you want to end slaughterhouses in America, knowing you will be causing a great deal more suffering to horses just because you have an ideal? Ideally there would be no child abuse or hunger or violence. Have we ended that? No. Do we have enough foster homes for kids? Not by a long shot. We do the best we can given the circumstances. I am sure going to a slaughter house in America is not pleasant and possibly cruel and terrifying at times but far less so than the alternative that "animal lovers" have brought to pass by having them shipped to Mexico.


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## Sunny06

If you euthanize a horse, you are not helping society. 

If you have the horse slaughtered, you will know that that horse will be going to a good cause. Meat, fur, money, glue, etc.

However, to the horse, it IS scary. Which is partly why euthanization is a big option. It's a good option. But then the horse just goes in the ground.

So I have 2 looks on it:

1. Horse is euthanized, no pain, no fear, owner is at peace knowing her sweetheart is dying with pride. YET you spend an extra $200.
or
2. Horse goes to slaughter house, makes money, turns into food, gets US/Mexico money, causes fear, yet is for a good cause, yada yada, for free. You may even get some money in return.

I can't decide which look is best. Other than what are you going to do with the 90 million unwanted horses a year? I don't think we have enough dirt to bury them all from euthanizing them.


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## Juniper

[quoteI don't think we have enough dirt to bury them all from euthanizing them.[/quote]
Okay, I have to admit, that was kind of funny, even though it might be true.


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## Juniper

I guess I still have not figured out how to do the quote in italics thing.


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## Spastic_Dove

You can Euthanize a horse with a bullet to the head. A place I know used to euth their oldies with a bullet and the meat was used for exotic animals at a nearby zoo. You could also send the horse to be processed and used for food. 

Frankly, I don't care what happens to the body afterward, it is that the horse is killed in the least stressful way possible. A bullet (which would not effect meat), I think, is the most useful for everyone.


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## kevinshorses

I was at first excited about the petition but as I read it I realized it was quite stupid. One part wants to allow slaughter and another part says that slaughter buyers should be found and prosecuted. The whole thing was pretty poorly written and planned. There is not a greater supporter of slaughter than I am but I won't put my name on something like that.


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## Tennessee

I blame the protestors that were originally all upset about slaughter in the US. Congratulations to those ignorant people, because we are now sending these horses to Mexico where they are being treated MUCH horse than they ever would have been in the US. 

I think slaughter is neccessary. I don't like the idea of a horse being put through pain as much as the next guy, but I also don't like the idea of an overpopulated domesticated animal, causing an inflation in the prices and the suffering of horses that aren't getting the care they need.


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## MN Tigerstripes

Spastic_Dove said:


> You can Euthanize a horse with a bullet to the head. A place I know used to euth their oldies with a bullet and the meat was used for exotic animals at a nearby zoo. You could also send the horse to be processed and used for food.
> 
> Frankly, I don't care what happens to the body afterward, it is that the horse is killed in the least stressful way possible. A bullet (which would not effect meat), I think, is the most useful for everyone.


 
This how we put down our old gelding and my friend did the same to hers. It was quick, seemed as painless as possible, and my friend could bury her horse. Unfortunately it seems like a lot of people have a BIG problem with shooting as a method.


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## Spastic_Dove

And I can empathize with people who don't want to shoot their horse. If my horse were to get put down with a bullet, I would not want to be there like I may with chemical euthanasia, but that is just the emotions in me. I KNOW that it is quick, effective, and not traumatizing for the horse if you have someone who knows what they're doing. Unfortunately, it's a hard stigma to erase =/


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## lacyloo

Horse slaughter or no horse slaughter,people will still starve their horses or dump them on someone else.

Back when horse slaughter houses were open in the US ,there were still skinny horses standing in line for action.


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## lacyloo

MN Tigerstripes said:


> This how we put down our old gelding and my friend did the same to hers. It was quick, seemed as painless as possible, and my friend could bury her horse. Unfortunately it seems like a lot of people have a BIG problem with shooting as a method.


If I was given the circumstances and couldn't get a vet out I would defiantly euthanize them with a bullet.In fact,My vet keeps a gun in his truck for that reason.If someone cant pay for the euthanasia he will shoot them.Its very quick and the horse is blindfolded to reduce stress.


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## rocky pony

I'm not going to read this whole thing, but..

I'm sorry, but people who actually love horses should be more interested in finding a solution for this problem that doesn't involve horse torture. Cheaper euthanization? Hell, even hiring someone to come shoot him in the head, for god's sake. Horse slaughter is not necessary. That doesn't mean we should stand by and allow horses to be neglected, either, but the last thing on earth we should do is settle for slaughter as a solution. Horses, of all animals, do not deserve this.


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## MN Tigerstripes

Do you have any viable solutions? I'm just curious, not calling you out or anything. I've thought about this issue many times and haven't come up with anything that is actually workable. I don't think slaughter is the "answer" in and of itself. It doesn't really solve any problems, but it may be a part of the solution. 

Lacyloo/Spastic - In my experience no matter how it's done it basically sucks. I think some people need to realize that a quick bullet (or blow) to the head is a better death than a long slow one by starvation or disease. **** I hope to have that choice when the time comes.


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## rocky pony

As stated, they could just use a gun instead of the horrible process they go through now. Something that would not allow them to suffer. And the conditions that the horses are in could certainly be improved upon. I don't think it's that hard to not torture horses.


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## Sunny06

And serve absolutely no purpose for society and cut out millions of slaughter worker's jobs? Think of all the jobs that will be.. Gone. 

Just because you see slaughter houses on YouTube that 'abuse' does not mean all slaughter houses do. 

I think one should be able to drag their horse to the slaughter house, and shoot them there so they can use the corpse.


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## rocky pony

Well, I love horses. I think that not torturing them prioritizes over these people's jobs. Clearly they're not the best people in the world, I mean I personally would resort to prostitution before I would resort to this.
But even so, what I'm implying isn't necessarily to shut down the actual industry, it's to change it and make it so that they are using a more humane approach. I can't imagine why that would be so hard for them.


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## SmoothTrails

I have read quite a few of these, and I'm sorry if there have already been some others in the middle area that I skipped that said the same thing but here it goes.

Horses are not humans...they are animals. I love y horse, but at least when there was slaughter good horses were bought, adn bad ones were put out of their misery because it was worth it to sell them while they still had weight to make the money from meat. 

I know it sounds heartless, but really would you rather have these horses starve/be abandoned or put out of their misery quickly. Slaughter is not a pretty thing, but neither is euthanasia. Depending on the age, weight, etc. of a horse they may scream and thrash when given an injection. At least slaughter gives an outlet for unwanted horses that can be strictly controlled by the government.

In my area, if you go to an auction to buy a horse to save it you had better have your trailer locked. At the end of the sale horses will be loaded into random people's trailers or left tied in the auction house. These horses have no one to care for them and many of these people can't afford to take care of them. Most of the rescues are full as well. Yes, you may have gone to help one horse, but almost no one has an unlimited supply of money to care for all the horses you would like to. 

I woudl love to save all the horses I could, but all we can afford is one more. That is what we save and we pray for quick deaths instead of starvation or the long travel to Mexico for the rest.


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## SmoothTrails

Sunny06 said:


> And serve absolutely no purpose for society and cut out millions of slaughter worker's jobs? Think of all the jobs that will be.. Gone.
> 
> Just because you see slaughter houses on YouTube that 'abuse' does not mean all slaughter houses do.
> 
> I think one should be able to drag their horse to the slaughter house, and shoot them there so they can use the corpse.


 
and many of those are from mexico, which is where the horses go now because we have our slaughter houses with much tighter regulations shut down


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## heyycutter

ive been to a horse slaughter plant personally, and it was completely disgusting. the people who worked there told me sometimes the horses dont even die fast, and they lie on the floor writhing for several minutes until they bleed out. its so wrong, people should regulate horse BREEDING, instead of turning horse slaughter legal


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## mom2pride

Iluvjunior said:


> i would in no way sign this petition before they banned slughter house most were killed for orse meat and thats wrong on soooo any levels! and if the adoption fee could be a little less people would buy them


I don't think I could ever personally send a horse to slaughter; I would rather put him down and either have him rendered or buried in my own land. 

I do agree with you on the adoption fees needing to be drastically lowered in order to convince people to actually adopt! I was looking at a site not too long ago, and the horses being adopted out were more expensive than alot of normal sale horses, and THESE horses had a time limit on them before they were to go to a sale, in which they'd probably wind up back on the meat truck they were originally rescued from:roll: I couldn't afford to rescue a horse, with those kind of prices (we're talking 2-5 K!!!), not just a couple hundred, or a thousand dollar adoption fee! 

I also have to agree with slaughter houses being a necessary evil in some cases; the numbers of unwanted or abandoned horses is severely on the rise since the laws were enforced limiting the ability to send them to slaughter. I don't like the concept of some slaughter houses, and do wishe they were more regulated as far as how humanely treated the animals (not just horses) were handled and treated prior to being put down. It does need to be quick, and shouldn't be drawn out so the animal stands there suffering.


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## Sunny06

SmoothTrails said:


> and many of those are from mexico, which is where the horses go now because we have our slaughter houses with much tighter regulations shut down


See what Peta and 'slaughter-against-ers' do when they push their nose in everything?

Slaughterhouses aren't put here in US for the heck of it. They are meant to be *used*. And they were relatively humane (90% of them at least). MUCH more than US's. So now that Peta and everyone else that thinks slaughter is wrong has made Amerian houses illegal, unwanted horses are all going to literally be tortured in_ Mexico_ because there are no slaughter houses in US that were once relatively humane.

Thanks Peta and every other little girl that thinks our slaughter houses are horrible. Now you've just opened another can of worms.


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## rocky pony

People are truly sick. You see these truly amazing animals, you know them and work with them and they do all they can for you, and yet you're still willing to settle for something like slaughter as a solution.
No one with any brain whatsoever is saying to make slaughter illegal and let it sit that way. The idea is to find another solution, and if slaughter was not an option maybe we could find a better solution.
If humans wouldn't be so irresponsible and selfish, this wouldn't even be an issue. We just sit on our asses saying oh, they're just animals, it doesn't matter if they suffer.
It's sick. It's truly sick.


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## Tennessee

I find it funny how most people have absolutely no problem at all eating a hamburger, shooting a deer, grilling up a steak, etc. etc. and then get all freaked out about horse slaughter.

Hypocrites....


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## heyycutter

agree with rockypony, as i said before, we need to regulate and control breeding, instead of legallizing slaughter. while people are breeding their cute perfect little mare in their backyard just to see what it would look like, horses that need homes are being killed, often grusomely. another huge problem is the PMU companies, who constantly breed their mares to collect pregnant mare urine for estrogen replacment meds. where do the thousands of foals go every year? slaughter. execpt for a few hundred that get put in rescues. the problem that needs fixing is BREEDING.


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## Crimsonhorse01

Tennessee said:


> I find it funny how most people have absolutely no problem at all eating a hamburger, shooting a deer, grilling up a steak, etc. etc. and then get all freaked out about horse slaughter.
> 
> Hypocrites....


I fully agree. Livestock people. Shall we define Livestock?

_n._ Domestic animals, such as cattle or horses, raised for home use or for profit, especially on a farm.


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## Jessabel

I know this is a touchy subject, but I will say that I am against slaughter and always will be. I think it's wrong for any horse to die in a slaughterhouse, especially since many of them have worked hard all their lives and deserve much better. I would sooner euthanize an unwanted horse than send him to slaughter. I think there needs to be assistance for owners who have to euth their horses so they don't have to resort to sending them to market. If worst comes to worst, do it the old fashioned way and shoot them. If you can't do it yourself, find someone who knows what they're doing. It's much better to have them die in their own home and where they feel comfortable than in a completely alien environment and probably scared to death. That's just the way I feel and I would never personally send a horse to slaughter.


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## SmoothTrails

Crimsonhorse01 said:


> I fully agree. Livestock people. Shall we define Livestock?
> 
> _n._ Domestic animals, such as cattle or horses, raised for home use or for profit, especially on a farm.


 
I agree. I have friends who raise cattle and sheep. They sometimes hand-feed them, but they are a crop. That means that when they are grown, they are sent off to market. They breed, train, show, adn bond with these animals, but it's a way of life.


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## mom2pride

rockyxpony said:


> People are truly sick. You see these truly amazing animals, you know them and work with them and they do all they can for you, and yet you're still willing to settle for something like slaughter as a solution.
> No one with any brain whatsoever is saying to make slaughter illegal and let it sit that way. The idea is to find another solution, and if slaughter was not an option maybe we could find a better solution.
> If humans wouldn't be so irresponsible and selfish, this wouldn't even be an issue. We just sit on our asses saying oh, they're just animals, it doesn't matter if they suffer.
> It's sick. It's truly sick.


I guess I'm a horrible heartless horse owner then, because I would prefer to see unrideable, old, or broken down horses be sent to slaughter than to stand in a pen, in pain, or starving because no one has any room for them. 

Yes, if breeding were able to be regulated more, that could be an option, but since there is really no feasable way to do this, many horses are born each year who don't have anywhere to go; I don't like the concept of slaughtering a horse, but again, I'd rather see that happen than see the horse abused and neglected for a long life. 

If adoption agencies start adopting the horses out for more reasonable prices, more rescued slaughter bound horses would be saved; yes, still do the rigorous back ground and reference checks, but asking thousands of dollars for often untrained, rescue horses? As much as I would prefer to adopt, I couldn't afford that in one shot, and many people are probably in the same boat; it's not that we don't want to adopt and save horses, we just can't afford a large sum of money in one shot. 

I've made it known that I personally wouldn't send a horse to slaughter, but for the many thousands of horses that may not be in the best situation in the first place? Maybe that's (slaughter) the 'better' evil of the two. I wish there was an easier solution to the 'over populated' horse world, but there may never be. And I don't think this opinion makes me or anyone else who supports it heartless, or not dedicated to horses. My horses are always much loved, adored, and taken care of the best I can; but many horses aren't that fortunate.


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## Spastic_Dove

Jessabel said:


> I think there needs to be assistance for owners who have to euth their horses so they don't have to resort to sending them to market. .


There have been a few free euth clinics that have gone over well. But they're few and far between because SOMEONE needs to pay for it and what happens to the people who are euthanizing perfectly health animals? 

No one is pro-horse slaughter. Unfortunatly, until people start being responsible, it becomes a necessary evil. Well bred horses end up in slaughter, show ponies that the owner thought was going to a forever home end up in slaughter. It's just not poor breeding though that does play a part. Rescues are over run and no one wants to do the training that actually gives the horse a chance. I'd love if no horse had to be killed and they all died happy in a field somewhere. Unfortunately, I don't see anyway of that happening.


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## kevinshorses

rockyxpony said:


> People are truly sick. You see these truly amazing animals, you know them and work with them and they do all they can for you, and yet you're still willing to settle for something like slaughter as a solution.
> No one with any brain whatsoever is saying to make slaughter illegal and let it sit that way. The idea is to find another solution, and if slaughter was not an option maybe we could find a better solution.
> If humans wouldn't be so irresponsible and selfish, this wouldn't even be an issue. We just sit on our asses saying oh, they're just animals, it doesn't matter if they suffer.
> It's sick. It's truly sick.


Yeah and if Granny had balls she'd be Grandpa!! The world is what it is and horses are livestock and personal property. People need to eat and if there are excess horses then I see it as win-win as long as the horse is killed as humanely as possible.


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## MacabreMikolaj

Tennessee said:


> I find it funny how most people have absolutely no problem at all eating a hamburger, shooting a deer, grilling up a steak, etc. etc. and then get all freaked out about horse slaughter.
> 
> Hypocrites....


Agreed 110%. This is the fact alone that makes me SO irate. These people start calling you names, screaming obscenities for anyone who is "pro-slaughter", all while the hamburger juice is dribbling down their dang chin.

I love horses, but growing up we had some pretty darn cute calves that would come when you called (ROFL, they were named Hamburger and Steak, my grandpa has a wicked sense of humour :lol, follow you around, stand to be petted and "brushed". Every animal is capable of being a pet. I will never understand how killing one is ok and killing another isn't.


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## Juniper

I agree. Hypocritical to the max. Drives me insane as well. It is an emotional rather than thought through response.


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## MN Tigerstripes

Yup, I agree with that too. Same problem with the non-hunters (those that aren't vegetarians). I always want to ask the anti-slaughter people if they've spent any time with a baby cow? Cuz they're pretty darn cute AND trainable. I know a women who "rescued" a free-martin heifer who was going to slaughter and trained it to ride. It's been in her pasture for at least 10 years with her horse.


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## Sunny06

100% Agree. Very hypocritical. 

I will never understand it. 

And for-slaughter people on here: Enlighten me on your thoughts toward livestock and tell me the difference between killing an innocent cow and an innocent horse. You will find there isn't one.


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## MN Tigerstripes

At least the horse (generally) that is has a couple good years. In the case of turkeys and chickens their lives are pretty terrible right up til they get to the slaughter house. Most slaughter bound pigs never see daylight unless it's during transport. What about layer chickens that we get our eggs from? Read up on the industry standards there and tell me horses have it worse than other livestock. 

Not saying all livestock are treated badly, but if you're going to tell me how terrible I am because I'm not frothing at the bit about horse slaughter (which I don't love by any means) then I want to know what your attitude is towards the slaughter of other animals. I don't have a lot of patience with hypocrits (unless they openly admit they are being hypocritical).


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## roro

Sunny06 said:


> 100% Agree. Very hypocritical.
> 
> I will never understand it.
> 
> And for-slaughter people on here: Enlighten me on your thoughts toward livestock and tell me the difference between killing an innocent cow and an innocent horse. You will find there isn't one.


I am against slaughter and I see little or no difference in the value of the life of a cow and the value of the life of a horse. What I do see is innocent animals being killed. We already have horse slaughter banned in the USA, that is a huge step. It would be near impossible at this point to attempt to ban cow slaughter. I see a huge hole in the logic of stating that because cows are slaughtered, it is okay for horses to be slaughtered. If you truly cared about innocent lives being taken you wouldn't want any animal to be slaughtered. It doesn't make any sense to say "well, cows are being killed, so why shouldn't horses be killed too?" The less animals sent to slaughter, the better. I wish that cows were not slaughtered, but it is an incredibly powerful industry and ingrained into America. Uprooting horse slaughter is a lot easier because it is already banned and the majority of America does not agree with it. 

Also, the argument that slaughter is cheaper and easier than euthanization/death by bullet is invalid. It costs and wastes MUCH more (in money, time and materials, such as metal and gas) to construct, operate, and supply a slaughter house then to euthanize or shoot an animal. Where do you plan to get this money and materials to create a slaughter house? If you are thinking the government, they have many more important things to attend to then killing innocent animals. Creating slaughter houses will not solve the problem of too many horses. There would still be starving old horses sitting around in muddy paddocks. Horse breeders need to be educated and anybody that owns a horse must be able to supply a happy and healthy life for the horse or be able to sell the horse to another person who will be able to take good care of the horse, and be able to have a vet euthanize a horse at the end or have it shot in the head.


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## Sunny06

> I see little or no difference in the value of the life of a cow and the value of the life of a horse.


Technically, _this_ should be the end of the story. Because if you see no harm in killing a cow, then how is a horse any different? You can bond to a cow _just_ as easily as a horse. 

_Most _can't get past the whole 'horse slaughter' thing solely because they've been around _horses_ and not _cows_. Walk a mile in a cow-lover's shoes before one goes and make assumptions (not saying anyone personally is, but anyone who says that the life of a cow is _worthless_ when compared to a horse). I don't think anyone has blatently said it, but I've wondered a few times if that's where they were heading.

It _IS_ sad that innocent horses/animals/whatever are slaughtered. It really is. But they are put here for many reasons. One to feed us. Our bodies need protein. And really, if you don't want to eat meat, and think it's horrible, then by all means don't! 

I feel one is just wasting the animal when they turn their nose up at it (not saying anyone is). Like the whole fur coat thing all over again. I guess PETA never stopped to think that paint-balling a coat would mean that _that_ life would no longer be enjoyed, but would instead be making that life go to waste.



> We already have horse slaughter banned in the USA, that is a huge step.


Now they are all going down to Mexico where they truly _WILL_ be mistreated. Lovely!

*I guess I should ask this: If slaughter was done in a more humane manner, would it be more or less tolerable? *

Someone answer that. I'm curious to know.


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## kevinshorses

Cows, chickens, and pigs are all delicous. I haven't tried horse yet but I'm willing. Animals are for food or work. that's all they're for. Nobody expects the government to build slaughterhouses. There is plenty of money in it to pay for the facilities and create more jobs. As I have said before, if you don't like it then don't do it. Try not to stick your nose in my business.


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## Sunny06

kevinshorses said:


> Try not to stick your nose in my business.


Where'd that come from? Do you work in a slaughterhouse?


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## SmoothTrails

kevinshorses said:


> Cows, chickens, and pigs are all delicous. I haven't tried horse yet but I'm willing. Animals are for food or work. that's all they're for. Nobody expects the government to build slaughterhouses. There is plenty of money in it to pay for the facilities and create more jobs. As I have said before, if you don't like it then don't do it. Try not to stick your nose in my business.


My ag teacher in high school said horse was a little stringier and sweeter. I could eat it I think, but it's hard for me to eat a cow if I have seen it alive. Personally, I think it is the way of nature. I love my horses, and I would like to keep them all with me for the rest of their lives, but if they were totally lame, hurting constantly, etc. I feel there are plenty of hungry people in the world and unwanted horses that could benefit from having slaughter houses. We would be exporting most of the meat, but that is a good thing. At the moment we import much more than we export. America needs to export more goods to help the economy. It produces jobs, food, and a outlet for unwanted horses. 

I agree that breeding should be more regulated. I feel that it should be in dogs as well. I'm not even saying that you should not be able to choose what horses to breed, but I could see paying for a liscence and having to report to some kind of authority.


Horse slaughter is not the solution, but it is part of a solution. Right now, it is needed.


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## Sunny06

^ *Applauds*

I agree 100%


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## roro

Sunny06 said:


> Technically, _this_ should be the end of the story. Because if you see no harm in killing a cow, then how is a horse any different? You can bond to a cow _just_ as easily as a horse.
> 
> _Most _can't get past the whole 'horse slaughter' thing solely because they've been around _horses_ and not _cows_. Walk a mile in a cow-lover's shoes before one goes and make assumptions (not saying anyone personally is, but anyone who says that the life of a cow is _worthless_ when compared to a horse). I don't think anyone has blatently said it, but I've wondered a few times if that's where they were heading.


Maybe if you actually read the entire length of the post, you would have realized that I said I disagree with cow slaughter as well. I think slaughtering of any kind is terrible. I only said that because horse slaughter is outlawed in America, it is easier to stop the whole process (INCLUDING shipping to Mexico) then to stop the beef or poultry industry. It is better to save one species from slaughter rather than saving none.

If you want protein with as little land and money wasted on livestock, then eat edible bugs. I've done it before and they tasted fine. 70% of farmland is used on meat production. It takes 100 pounds of feed to create 10 pounds of beef. Here's a nutritional table comparing traditional meats and insects: Insect Nutritional Table
America does not need any mammal meat what so ever. Don't even try to argue with me that mammals deserve to die because they are tastier. Farming edible insects is cheaper, more humane, wastes less, and is healthier anyways. Besides, bugs have simpler brains and can't feel pain, therefore slaughtering them is more humane.


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## Crimsonhorse01

Well if you start thinking like that. How do you justify eating a bug? They are living breathing creatures. If you don't have a right to eat a mammal what gives you the right to eat a bug?
I adore horses. But people have to eat. Id rather see a horse be used than be put in the ground and wasted. But then again Id rather have a bear or something eat me when I die. 
My father-in-law butchered one for a family a few months ago. The family raises and trains horses for a living. With the houses closed though. The market is so flooded they couldn't sell and their kids were going to go hungry. The wife said it was pretty good. 
You might say how terrible they ate a horse. I would hope though that you would be thinking how terrible that children in the great USA would be close to starving.


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## MN Tigerstripes

Roro - Am I correct in assume that you are a vegan? No meat, cheese, eggs, fish, poultry (because some people classify it differently). You don't wear leather shoes, your horse doesn't wear leather tack, etc. Because if that's the case I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. You've obviously made an entirely different lifestyle choice than me and that's fine. Probably my main points in this thread are:

- If our horses (or any other animal is going to be slaughtered) it needs to be done in our country and as humanely as possible.

- If somebody wants to eat horse (or cow or deer or whatever) that's also fine. 

Of course, if your an "activist" vegan you're never going to agree with this so I guess it's pointless to keep arguing. But I don't think you can wipe out the whole "mammals are tastier" arguement as invalid because it's a good point. For most people eating is an enjoyable experience and it should be. I've eaten bugs before and a steak is a heck of a lot bigger.


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## roro

MN Tigerstripes said:


> Roro - Am I correct in assume that you are a vegan? No meat, cheese, eggs, fish, poultry (because some people classify it differently). You don't wear leather shoes, your horse doesn't wear leather tack, etc. Because if that's the case I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. You've obviously made an entirely different lifestyle choice than me and that's fine. Probably my main points in this thread are:
> 
> - If our horses (or any other animal is going to be slaughtered) it needs to be done in our country and as humanely as possible.
> 
> - If somebody wants to eat horse (or cow or deer or whatever) that's also fine.
> 
> Of course, if your an "activist" vegan you're never going to agree with this so I guess it's pointless to keep arguing. But I don't think you can wipe out the whole "mammals are tastier" arguement as invalid because it's a good point. For most people eating is an enjoyable experience and it should be. I've eaten bugs before and a steak is a heck of a lot bigger.


No, I'm not a vegan. I eat whatever I am given to eat and I use materials, including leather. Not chosing to eat/buy something does nothing about the problem, the problem is the production. The problem is stopping something at the source, a simple life choice is irrelevant to whether these animals are being slaughtered or not. I realize that many people on this forum are fine with horse slaughter, but I'm not, and I really hope that horse slaughter is not legalized because I find it inhumane and irresponsible to make animals die because humans are under-educated and unprepared for buying, breeding, and caring for horses.

MNstripes- Because we do not yet have a synthetic option to protein that is on the same level as a living animal, there is some reason to eating meat, whether it be an insect or a cow. Bugs do not "deserve" to die more than mammals, but it is not the same as killing a mammal. A bug does not feel pain, form relationships with other animals or people, or care about being in cramped spaces. All of those traits are found in mammals and are not traits of insects. Therefore, it is more humane to use bugs for food than to use cows or horses. About the family, I think that was a reasonable decision for them. They had little or no other option. The concern I have is that America eats a lot of meat without needing it. It causes obesity and heart failure, as well having an extremely wasting production. I don't plan on seeing anything any time soon in regards to anything changing, I am just pointing out that the situation we are in now is inefficient and unneccessarily inhumane, as well as unneeded.


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## Pidge

My personal opinion is that while I would preferably live in an ideal world where every horse had a owner and every owner had enough money for a horse we dont live in an ideal world...to many horses without good homes and to many that arent wanted...

So slaughter is needed though I wish it wasnt...an since it is needed I would preffer horses be slaughtered in the USA where we have regulations so the horses arent abused before being brutaly killed...


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## kevinshorses

Sunny06 said:


> Where'd that come from? Do you work in a slaughterhouse?


 
I meant my horse business but I have worked in a beef slaughter house and I saw very very little suffering. Being humane was a huge deal with the company. Nobody wants to make an animal suffer.


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## kevinshorses

SmoothTrails said:


> My ag teacher in high school said horse was a little stringier and sweeter. I could eat it I think, but it's hard for me to eat a cow if I have seen it alive. Personally, I think it is the way of nature. I love my horses, and I would like to keep them all with me for the rest of their lives, but if they were totally lame, hurting constantly, etc. I feel there are plenty of hungry people in the world and unwanted horses that could benefit from having slaughter houses. We would be exporting most of the meat, but that is a good thing. At the moment we import much more than we export. America needs to export more goods to help the economy. It produces jobs, food, and a outlet for unwanted horses.
> 
> I agree that breeding should be more regulated. I feel that it should be in dogs as well. I'm not even saying that you should not be able to choose what horses to breed, but I could see paying for a liscence and having to report to some kind of authority.
> 
> 
> Horse slaughter is not the solution, but it is part of a solution. Right now, it is needed.


If horse meat was for sale in this country I would buy it. I wouldn 't want to eat my favorite horse but I would raise one to eat.


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## SmoothTrails

kevinshorses said:


> I meant my horse business but I have worked in a beef slaughter house and I saw very very little suffering. Being humane was a huge deal with the company. Nobody wants to make an animal suffer.


I've seen pig slaughter. If the animals get too stressed the hormones ruin the meat and USDA inspectors will shut it down until noise levels, etc. get back to an acceptable level. To help with this animals are kept in pens based on gender, weight, and age. If animals are upset, cared for badly, sick, etc. producers miss out on money. All of these things cause a loss of production. No oneat a slaughter house likes it or gains from an animal suffering during and directly before slaughter. And no producer gains from having ill cared for or stressed animals. They are not like people, they quit eating when over-stressed, over-heated, etc. It is not good for anyone to treat them badly.


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## SmoothTrails

kevinshorses said:


> If horse meat was for sale in this country I would buy it. I wouldn 't want to eat my favorite horse but I would raise one to eat.


 I could see that. As long as I never saw it alive I could probably do it, but if I saw it I would think of it as I ate...lol. I'm weird like that.


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## Sunny06

I think everyone has pretty good points. From both sides.


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## Sissimut-icehestar

kevinshorses said:


> If horse meat was for sale in this country I would buy it. I wouldn 't want to eat my favorite horse but I would raise one to eat.


I've had horse meat and it's quite tasty. I prefer it over cow meat actually. I also agree with you that I couldn't eat my own horse.


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## Speed Racer

roro said:


> No, I'm not a vegan. I eat whatever I am given to eat and I use materials, including leather. Not chosing to eat/buy something does nothing about the problem, the problem is the production. The problem is stopping something at the source, a simple life choice is irrelevant to whether these animals are being slaughtered or not. I realize that many people on this forum are fine with horse slaughter, but I'm not, and I really hope that horse slaughter is not legalized because I find it inhumane and irresponsible to make animals die because humans are under-educated and unprepared for buying, breeding, and caring for horses.


So in other words, you're a hypocrite.

It's OKAY to eat meat, use/wear leather, etc., as long as it's not from a horse? 

How about the cow/goat/pig/chicken it came from? Don't you think _they_ would have liked to have been able to live out their lifespan instead of becoming food/products for humans?

Oh, but horses are 'speshul' and not subject to the rules for all the other species. Same old specious argument from someone who just expects horses to be excluded from the foodchain, because THEY want it.

For your information, horse slaughter in the U.S. IS NOT ILLEGAL, and never has been. I can legally have a horse of my own butchered or do it myself, if I so choose. 

The only thing that's illegal in the U.S., is _selling_ it to someone else. If however, I want to give the meat away, it's perfectly legal for me to do so. I can also sell it to someone outside the U.S., as U.S. laws do not pertain to meat sold to foreign countries.

People that decry horse slaughter 'just because' make my head hurt. Get it straight; horses ARE NOT MORE SPECIAL than any other mammal on the planet. Just because you have a bond with your own, doesn't mean everyone else has to think like you do.

The only thing closing down the U.S. slaughter plants did, was make a long, torturous trip even MORE long and torturous. Way to go, anti-slaughter advocates!


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## rocky pony

To those who responded to my posts, I apologize for not responding sooner.

As an animal rights activist and a gay rights activist, it is clear that I don't believe in just letting things be as they are when they're unfair. I know that the world will never be perfect, and plenty of people will always do these awful things, but I just don't see that as a reason not to work on fixing them. I'm not one to see something wrong and just accept it. If enough people want something to change, they actually can make a difference. They may not be able to completely diminish a problem, but they can take away from it. That's enough for me.


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## roro

Speed Racer said:


> So in other words, you're a hypocrite.
> 
> It's OKAY to eat meat, use/wear leather, etc., as long as it's not from a horse?
> 
> How about the cow/goat/pig/chicken it came from? Don't you think _they_ would have liked to have been able to live out their lifespan instead of becoming food/products for humans?
> 
> Oh, but horses are 'speshul' and not subject to the rules for all the other species. Same old specious argument from someone who just expects horses to be excluded from the foodchain, because THEY want it.
> 
> For your information, horse slaughter in the U.S. IS NOT ILLEGAL, and never has been. I can legally have a horse of my own butchered or do it myself, if I so choose.
> 
> The only thing that's illegal in the U.S., is _selling_ it to someone else. If however, I want to give the meat away, it's perfectly legal for me to do so. I can also sell it to someone outside the U.S., as U.S. laws do not pertain to meat sold to foreign countries.
> 
> People that decry horse slaughter 'just because' make my head hurt. Get it straight; horses ARE NOT MORE SPECIAL than any other mammal on the planet. Just because you have a bond with your own, doesn't mean everyone else has to think like you do.
> 
> The only thing closing down the U.S. slaughter plants did, was make a long, torturous trip even MORE long and torturous. Way to go, anti-slaughter advocates!


I have clearly stated multiple times now that I find the life of a cow as valuable as the life of a horse. The text you misinterpreted stated that whether or not I use the products is not the issue, *because opting for a salad will not save the lives of animals*. What would solve the problem would be shutting down slaughter plants. I have gone in multiple circles with pro-slaughter advocates now about the value of the life of a horse vs a cow and it seems to be the only argument I am being presented with, if it is repeated again I will not honor it with a response. Again, I believe that slaughter of cows is equally inhumane as slaughter of horses. I simply stated that the process of halting horse slaughter is a lot farther along than the process of halting cow slaughter. The horse meat that actually was produced in America was hardly used in America, it was sent over to Japan and Europe. That is a very large difference between the horse meat industry and the beef or chicken industry. If this answer does not satisfy you, then try actually reading all of my posts and not jumping to instant conclusions about my own morals.


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## rocky pony

roro said:


> *because opting for a salad will not save the lives of animals*.


 
actually, it will. basic rules of supply and demand. the less people that eat meat, the less meat is produced.
but anyway...


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## MN Tigerstripes

Yup and you would be able to argue your point MUCH more effectively. It's difficult to tell people "slaughter plants should be shut down" when your eating a steak/chicken/whatever and putting your leather bridle on your horse. Not saying you don't have a valid opinion, but people tend to look at you as being a hypocrite if you don't follow your own opinion/advice/whatever you want to call it. Sorry I'm tired, running on not much sleep.


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## nrhareiner

jemmamalone said:


> _im sorry but i agree with tayz
> And these are my personal feelings and i dont mean offence either but just because horses may get overpopulated then you want to slaughter them?!?!?!
> you said that there are too many horses and not enough little girls to make them happy?
> Does that mean that when kiddies don't have mommy's or daddy's that instead of sending them into foster homes and adoption agencies your just going to slaughter them? No one would think of doing that so why would any body think of doing that to horses that some of us people think of as our kids?
> every body has our right to an opinion and this is mine
> _


Ok answer me this. If you do not believe slaughter of horses is a necessary evil like other have stated. What do you suggest be done with all the unwanted lame un usable horses who do not have owners willing or able to care for them?? Would it be better to let 1000 horses starve or slaughter 500?? Are YOU willing to take in and feed even 2 of those unwanted un usable horses. Even the dangourus ones??

To compair children to humans is a very very large streatch and I an not even going to go there.


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## Juniper

That is a good point. How many anti slaughter people have actually rescued a lame, dangerous, or old horse that needs expensive care.


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## roro

MN Tigerstripes said:


> Yup and you would be able to argue your point MUCH more effectively. It's difficult to tell people "slaughter plants should be shut down" when your eating a steak/chicken/whatever and putting your leather bridle on your horse. Not saying you don't have a valid opinion, but people tend to look at you as being a hypocrite if you don't follow your own opinion/advice/whatever you want to call it. Sorry I'm tired, running on not much sleep.


I don't know if I made this clear in the last post, but I do not buy any meat personally. What I mean that is if it is served at someone's house etc then I will eat it, but I do not purchase the meat. If I do not eat it, then it will just sit in a bowl that was served to me and be a waste. I think you bring up a good point of hypocrisy. I am dying to know how many pro-slaughter advocates are willing and able to kill the horses themselves.


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## nrhareiner

I am pro slaughter and I would have little to no problem putting down an Old lame or dangerous horse or if there was no other way to care for it. It is much much more humane to put an animal down then it is to let it starve. I feel the same way about hunting. I would rather having people hunt an animal to control the population then to let them starve and over graze and ruin the environment around them and then you have more animal suffering then the ones who would have and should have been slaughtered or put down.


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## Juniper

Roro, Touche'. I am pro slaughter because I think it is the less cruel alternative. But I found out that actually putting that into practice is not so easy. I hit a pheasant on the road last year. Actually it flew into me. It was obviously suffering. I could not bring myself to end it's life. Luckily I knew someone who lived close by and they were home when I called. (What did we do before cell phones?) He drove right over and that was that. It really shook me up that I could not do what was right for the animal on the spot. 
You make an extremely valid point. All pro slaughter people should volunteer at a slaughter plant to help make the last time for the horses as good as possible and also to see if they are so sure of where they stand on the point when it is not just a theory but a reality.


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## nrhareiner

Juniper said:


> Roro, Touche'. I am pro slaughter because I think it is the less cruel alternative. But I found out that actually putting that into practice is not so easy. I hit a pheasant on the road last year. Actually it flew into me. It was obviously suffering. I could not bring myself to end it's life. Luckily I knew someone who lived close by and they were home when I called. (What did we do before cell phones?) He drove right over and that was that. It really shook me up that I could not do what was right for the animal on the spot.
> You make an extremely valid point. All pro slaughter people should volunteer at a slaughter plant to help make the last time for the horses as good as possible and also to see if they are so sure of where they stand on the point when it is not just a theory but a reality.


The things is you say it is hard to put down an animal suffering and that you could not do it. Fair enough. I know my mom would have a hard time with it too. However can you stand by and let that same animal starve do death. Live in less the ideal conditions where they are?? If not are YOU willing to take it and feed it??? Again I would love to not have slaughter plants. I would love to see every single horse live out it life fat and sassy and enjoyed by people. However that is the ideal world and we do not live there. We live in reality and the reality is that there are too many horses and not enough land and food/hay and people to care for them. To top it off people keep breeding crap horses who can not even get $100 for them once they hit the ground. However that is for anouther debate.

Until all the people who are anti slaughter are willing to put up not only their money but time, land, and everything else that goes into keeping these horses. Then they should not even go there.


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## MN Tigerstripes

I don't need to work at a slaughter plant to appreciate or understand what happens there. I've been in the slaughter plant at my school, watched videos, read articles. Besides that I've been there while my dad shot HIS horse that had been in our family for 27 years (my parents got him when I was a year old). When my friend shot her horse I was there. I helped shoot my cat that I owned for 10 years. I've held many animals as they've breathed their last including my childhood dogs and my cat that I had for 17 years. Many of whom I loved and they didn't necessarily die nicely due to accidents and other things. I've helped vets euthanize 6 month old puppies with TREATABLE illnesses or injuries because the owner couldn't afford treatment. When the time comes I will shoot Soda myself. 

Besides that I'm a hunter. I've killed ducks, geese, and pheasants. I've been deer hunting and coyote hunting. I don't remove myself from the death of animals. It's been an intimate part of my life for as long as I could remember. Life and death go hand in hand. 

Another point about slaughter houses. Generally (there are always exceptions unfortunately), they are designed and run to be as comfortable and as non-frightening as possible. The reasoning behind this is that when an animal gets stressed/frightened it releases hormones into it's bloodstream that make the meat taste terrible. Meat that tastes like crap isn't worth nearly as much and ranchers are going to waste their hard earned money by letting their animals get screwed with in the slaughter house. There has been a lot of work put into this (Temple Grandin)and it is really starting to be recognized more and more by the industry. Of course, nothing is perfect that's a given. 

Maybe a more realistic goal (instead of outlawing all slaughter because people will always want meat) would be to work towards making the process less frightening and more comfortable?


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## xLaurenOscarx

omg! i cannot believe someone would acctually want slaughter houses reopened!! your sick people!!


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## nrhareiner

xLaurenOscarx said:


> omg! i cannot believe someone would acctually want slaughter houses reopened!! your sick people!!


Ok YOU tell me what should be done with all the unwanted, neglected, dangerous, lame and excess horses??? How many of them are YOU willing to take and feed??

Do not presume to say b/c some are willing to be realistic that we are sick or out of our minds or do not care about the horses but that for the most part is the furthest from the truth. 

In reality it is all the people who want to save everything that are the problem. I have seen horses at auctions pulled from the kill pens b/c someone felt sorry for the horse. Problem it each time that horse ends up back there b/c it is dangerous and people just can not seem to get it. One almost ended up killing a person I know who tried to rescue the horse. Come to find out it had been pulled from the kill pen 3 times.


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## xLaurenOscarx

nrhareiner said:


> Ok YOU tell me what should be done with all the unwanted, neglected, dangerous, lame and excess horses??? How many of them are YOU willing to take and feed??
> 
> Do not presume to say b/c some are willing to be realistic that we are sick or out of our minds or do not care about the horses but that for the most part is the furthest from the truth.
> 
> In reality it is all the people who want to save everything that are the problem. I have seen horses at auctions pulled from the kill pens b/c someone felt sorry for the horse. Problem it each time that horse ends up back there b/c it is dangerous and people just can not seem to get it. One almost ended up killing a person I know who tried to rescue the horse. Come to find out it had been pulled from the kill pen 3 times.


o yeah coz you can't keep a lame horse??? my friends horse has just fractured his leg and might never be ridden again! never once did she think of selling him to be chopped up and eaten! would you do that if someone was told they could never walk again? aw they cant walk again we'll send them 2 a slaughter house! its the exact same thing!!

my horse i have right now was unwanted, unfed and broken spirited. practically all the horses at the riding school i go 2 were unwanted unfed and broken spirited! they have a 2nd chance of life!!

sorry you mean 2 say you care even though you'd be willing 2 sell your horse that could be being eaten over in france the next day!! coz that makes sense!! how could anyone kill their best friend for food! sick!

horses make great companions yanno!!!


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## xLaurenOscarx

Juniper said:


> That is a good point. How many anti slaughter people have actually rescued a lame, dangerous, or old horse that needs expensive care.


 
I have! my horse needed so much time and money put into him to get him the way he is now but let me tell you its worth every cent!


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## Spastic_Dove

Good for you for keeping companion horses. Are you going to go adopt all the poorly bred, chronically ill, badly trained horses? There are too many horses and not enough knowledgeable people to adopt them all even if they had the time, funds, and desire to. 

Not one of us wants dead horses.


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## xLaurenOscarx

nrhareiner said:


> The things is you say it is hard to put down an animal suffering and that you could not do it. Fair enough. I know my mom would have a hard time with it too. *However can you stand by and let that same animal starve do death.* *Live in less the ideal conditions where they are?? If not are YOU willing to take it and feed it???* Again I would love to not have slaughter plants. I would love to see every single horse live out it life fat and sassy and enjoyed by people. However that is the ideal world and we do not live there. We live in reality and the reality is that there are too many horses and not enough land and food/hay and people to care for them. To top it off people keep breeding crap horses who can not even get $100 for them once they hit the ground. However that is for anouther debate.
> 
> Until all the people who are anti slaughter are willing to put up not only their money but time, land, and everything else that goes into keeping these horses. Then they should not even go there.


 
sorry but what does that go about people in 3rd world countries? they're starving and are living in dreadful conditions! does that mean you want to put them out of their misery too???????????


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## Spastic_Dove

A horse is not a human...Our modern horses can not survive without humans.


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## xLaurenOscarx

Spastic_Dove said:


> A horse is not a human...Our modern horses can not survive without humans.


 
a lot of people couldnt have survived without horses.
without horses how would people have gotten from place to place years ago?
people nowadays still rely on horses to make a living i.e. racing showjumping eventing etc.


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## Spastic_Dove

We're not talking about pre-automobile horses. We are talking about the modern world. As it is -currently- there are an excess of horses and they are suffering because of it. The horses that make peoples their living, are generally not the ones that suffer. It's the poorly bred, poorly trained, mediocre horses that are making up the majority of slaughter horses. Yes, you will find some **** nice horses in a slaughter pen sometimes, but they do not make up the majority. Usually, KB horses are going to need some work before they are sound in mind, body, etc and average riders may not be able to rehab such a horse. 
Like everyone has said, no one wants to see horses going to slaughter, but right now there are not many viable options for the horses in kill pens.
Horses that can still have jobs, aren't usually the ones turning into steaks. 

*What is your solution?*


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## Spastic_Dove

[EDIT: Oops, double post!]


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## xLaurenOscarx

Spastic_Dove said:


> We're not talking about pre-automobile horses. We are talking about the modern world. As it is -currently- there are an excess of horses and they are suffering because of it. The horses that make peoples their living, are generally not the ones that suffer. It's the poorly bred, poorly trained, mediocre horses that are making up the majority of slaughter horses. Yes, you will find some **** nice horses in a slaughter pen sometimes, but they do not make up the majority. Usually, KB horses are going to need some work before they are sound in mind, body, etc and average riders may not be able to rehab such a horse.
> Like everyone has said, no one wants to see horses going to slaughter, but right now there are not many viable options for the horses in kill pens.


the poorly bred horses and all that are generally the ones who surprise you the most.
its sick


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## Spastic_Dove

I never said they were bad horses. They're less marketable horses.


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## nrhareiner

There is a big difference between humans and horses. SO stop going there. A horse with a broken leg is a lot different the a human with a broken leg. One can live with out a leg the other can not. The one can even with a missing leg can still fend for themselves the other can not.

Again you have not answered the question about what YOU would do to solve the problem with out slaughter. You say you have a horse who was unwanted. Great. That is *ONE* out of the thousands of unwanted neglected horses.

Again which would *YOU* rather see. 1000 horses dieing from starvation and neglect *OR* 500 humanly slaughtered???

Also like has been already stated. Pre autos horses where very handy to have around and truly needed. However today you can get around with out one. I make a good amount of money off my horses. I am one of the few who probably can say that their horses pay for themselves. Most can not. The pro trainers who make a living off horses do so by the leaser of people like myself. If it was not for people that do what I do they whould not be doing what they do. SO that is not an argument. When the horse industry as a whole suffers those who make a living from horses suffer also.

So until there are owners who are willing to feed care for train and maintane all the unwanted horses there is a need for an laternative. At this point like it or not is slaughter. OR WE CAN JUST SEND THEM TO *YOUR* HOUSE.


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## nrhareiner

Spastic_Dove said:


> I never said they were bad horses. They're less marketable horses.



That is just it. People for what ever reason do not make these horses marketable or they just never started out that way. 

Feed, train, and make a horse marketable so people will want them. Stop breeding the crap that starts out in the hole would be another good place to start.


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## Spastic_Dove

I agree. People at are fault for the number of unwanted horses. Training, conditioning, and also breeding (not as important as training, but it helps) are what set a horse up to succeed.


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## MN Tigerstripes

Spastic/Nrhareiner - I agree, hell I've kept at least 2 of my horses past the age of any usefulness and I'll do my damndest (sp?) to keep Soda for the rest of his life. But there's just no way I can support any more horses. All of my friends are in the same place. I always say one of the first things I'd do if I won the lottery would be to rescue a bunch of horses, especially the old and lame ones and give them a place to live for life. But realistically there is no way I can do that.

Again I ask the anti-slaughter people - What is your solution??? Do you have anything realistic or semi-workable? I don't think slaughter is the only solution, but it is a realistic and workable part of the solution.


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## kevinshorses

xLaurenOscarx said:


> sorry but what does that go about people in 3rd world countries? they're starving and are living in dreadful conditions! does that mean you want to put them out of their misery too???????????


No!! I want to feed them unwanted horses. 2 is a number not a word!! A horses life is not exactly like a humans life. Horses are lower functioning animals than humans otherwise we would be joined in this debate by horses on thier own computers. As you get older you will get wiser and realize that you can only fix what is in your influence and you should keep your nose out of everything else. If you would like to ban horse slaughter in Ireland (if it's not already) then go right ahead. There are some of us that think it is a waste for a 1200 lb animal to stand in a pasture never to be handled when that animal could feed a human. I have worked in a slaughter plant and I will tell you that the management is very aware of how animals are treated prior to killing. They spend thousands of dollars to make the handling of the animals as humane and stress free as possible.


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## kevinshorses

xLaurenOscarx said:


> the poorly bred horses and all that are generally the ones who surprise you the most.
> its sick


Most poorly bred horses don't perform as well as the better bred horses hence the reason you are suprised by a few of them that do.


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## kevinshorses

roro said:


> I don't know if I made this clear in the last post, but I do not buy any meat personally. What I mean that is if it is served at someone's house etc then I will eat it, but I do not purchase the meat. If I do not eat it, then it will just sit in a bowl that was served to me and be a waste. I think you bring up a good point of hypocrisy. I am dying to know how many pro-slaughter advocates are willing and able to kill the horses themselves.


Not only could I kill them but with the right seasoning and side dishes I could make a *fantastic* meal out of them. With all the human suffering in the world(abused kids, battered women, ethnic cleansing, genocide ect ect) how could any compassionate person spend a minute of time or a dollar on fighting the humane slaughter of unwanted horses? I see the ads begging for donations for the HSUS and World Wildlife Fund and I think that if there was not one hungry person in the world then I *might* think about donating.


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## Juniper

> [No!! I want to feed them unwanted horses.[QUOTE
> Another good point!


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## Juniper

Still can't get that quote thing right. Maybe I should let my horse get on and figure it out.


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## SmoothTrails

xLaurenOscarx I am proud that your friend kept one horse that is lame, and that you have. Most of us can't afford to do that. Unless you can afford to go care for every single horse out there that is starving and neglected, we need an alternative. That's all there is to it. Have you watched a horse that can't even walk on its own without limping, or a horse that will lie down for most of the day because it hurts to stand? Have you seen horses that are starved but are still wiling to paw your brains out if you come near them?

I have, and the horses that are like that need some place to go. I have seen dangerous horses given away to people who had no clue about horses because any person with and horse sense wouldn't do anything but pay for a bullet to protect themself when that horse came at them. 

And as Kevin said he wants to feed these horses to starving people. I am all for animal welfare, but animals are not humans. I will NEVER support animal rights. Animals do not have the rights of people, and I believe that as long as there is animal suffering people should take care of it. In this case it means by killing them. Taking them out of their misery, and making them useful. 

Is it wrong to give people a reason to at least have these horses at kill weight? Is it wrong that instead of being put in the ground the meat of a horse is put to use? 

NO, and until you can save every horse from suffering you have no right to say that there should be not alternative.


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## SmoothTrails

kevinshorses said:


> not only could i kill them but with the right seasoning and side dishes i could make a *fantastic* meal out of them. With all the human suffering in the world(abused kids, battered women, ethnic cleansing, genocide ect ect) how could any compassionate person spend a minute of time or a dollar on fighting the humane slaughter of unwanted horses? I see the ads begging for donations for the hsus and world wildlife fund and i think that if there was not one hungry person in the world then i *might* think about donating.


agreed!!


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## Cheshire

I haven't read everything but I wanted to add my two cents, regardless of much my point has been hashed over by now. 

The ONLY problem I have with commercial slaughter of _any_ animal is the way the animals are usually treated in the process (I know not all plants do this). I don't think we should be arguing about whether or not horse slaughter should be made illegal here or anywhere else -- thing is, it's necessary. End of discussion. You all might be willing to keep a lame horse and retire your lovies in some nice ol' big pasture for the remainder of their days, but truthfully MOST horseowners can't and will not. In my mind's eye, a quick death is preferable to a slow and painful demise through neglect. I can not tell you how many horses people are just dumping out in the middle of the desert out here because they can't afford them, to get hit by cars and starve. Our rescues are at their absolute limit. Some people just lock them up in a back paddock or barn and forget about them, or put them in a dead pasture. There aren't nearly enough homes willing to take them all in. 

So then what?

Here's what we *should* be bickering about -- better regulation of the industry so we KNOW laws are being abided and the animals are not being abused. Too many slaughter plants -- not just the ones for horses -- are conveniently brushing these regs aside and the animals are suffering needlessly as a result. Whether it be changing out the company owners, putting more observers in there who have not been corrupted by money or desensitisation, or whatever...there HAS to be some way to stop the terrible cruelty being committed in these plants.

Like I said, I have no issue with the act of slaughter. Just the way it is carried out and how the animals are treated along the way. Oh btw, getting horse slaughter banned in the US? Just means these horses are crammed on inhumane doubledeckers without food or water, or relief from the heat in the summer months, to undertake grueling journies across country lines where quite a few don't make it from the stress of the ordeal alone. At least that particular evil might have been prevented.

But as others have said, when plants were open here they weren't all perfect either. And neither are our slaughter houses for cows and pigs, or the commercial egg farms for chickens for that matter, as a few examples.

It's a complete lack of compassion and a total, consuming greed that make people abuse these animals. I say if we're going to raise them and kill them for their meat or fur or whatever, then at least do it a humane way. But that's not being done. And *that* is when my rage comes in.

Hope this disjointed ramble made a little sense.


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## kevinshorses

Cheshire said:


> It's a complete lack of compassion and a total, consuming greed that make people abuse these animals. I say if we're going to raise them and kill them for their meat or fur or whatever, then at least do it a humane way. But that's not being done. And *that* is when my rage comes in.
> 
> Hope this disjointed ramble made a little sense.


Have you ever seen the way animals are handled in a kill plant? I will tell you that economic factors dictate that animals are killed quickly and with as little stress as possible. I have been to several plants and they are all the same in that they try to produce the best product possible and to do this the animals have to be killed without stress. As far as the shipping across the country to slaughter, while I'm sure it's not comfortable very few animals are mistreated because the owners have spent money to get them to wieght and they don't want that money wasted. The horses are only hauled a certain distance and then they are let out and the trucks pick up another load and continue on. They don't ship horses that are about to die or are too cripled to make the trip. It's not just compassion for the animals, it's economics.


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## Cheshire

Well, ok. We can agree to disagree. There *are* good well-run slaughter houses out there. I'm sure you love you do and do a good job of it. Yet there are also people who could care less, which means there is room for improvement in the industry as far as I am concerned.

And while I have not been to a slaughter plant personally, nor would I ever want to, I do know people who have worked in them, and have heard stories. Yes, yes, they are "only stories", but there you go. 

As far as the greed thing goes...I'm not just talking horses here. I'm sure you are aware of the conditions that commerically bred sows, meat birds and egg-laying chickens are kept in this country? Even "economically speaking", there's no reason for that sort of disregard for life. Anyway I know that is a bit off topic here, but it really goes hand in hand. There needs to be a change.


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## Juniper

Is this topic setting a record for the most replies ever?


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## nrhareiner

You know why farmers ( cattle and dairy) do not eat a cow that has a broken leg??? They just put them in the ground. B/c the meat tastes like ****. You would have to keep the cow for 4-6 days with a broken leg and keep them comfortable without any drugs which can not been done. So they just berry them and be done with it. Same holds true when the animal in in the slaughter plants. While I will agree that there needs to be improved in transportation and housing. It is not as bad as most will lead you to believe. If the animal is injured or stressed the meat will taste like **** and no one will buy it.


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## Sunny06

I just think people need to get off Youtube 

Just can't believe every piece of crap you see off of it.


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## xLaurenOscarx

Sunny06 said:


> I just think people need to get off Youtube
> 
> Just can't believe every piece of crap you see off of it.


 
sorry but it must be true! how else would they get that footage?? its not as if you can special effect it all!!


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## nrhareiner

xLaurenOscarx said:


> sorry but it must be true! how else would they get that footage?? its not as if you can special effect it all!!


Do you believe everything you see at the movies too?? In some of these UT videos. They can not and do not prove when or where the videos where taken. Yes they can be very easily faked. Take a look at a lot of the videos on there. Many are fake


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## xLaurenOscarx

nrhareiner said:


> Do you believe everything you see at the movies too?? In some of these UT videos. They can not and do not prove when or where the videos where taken. Yes they can be very easily faked. Take a look at a lot of the videos on there. Many are fake


 








 
coz that looks so fake


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## Crimsonhorse01

LOL wrong video to put on the thread to prove your point.


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## nrhareiner

Crimsonhorse01 said:


> LOL wrong video to put on the thread to prove your point.



Ya I would have to agree with you on that too. Looks like a good reason to have slaughter to me. Starved horse or won that died and they for what ever reason could not berry it or dispose of the remains did that.


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## kevinshorses

Untill I saw that video I didn't know that horses died. I thought they lived forever like unicorns and tinkerbell fairies. I saw horses that were injured and were under wieght but I only saw two pictures of horses being slaughtered and I didn't see anything that would indicate that it was inhumane. The horse that was starving is more of an argument for slaughter than against it. Some of the pictures were of a trailer on its side, why is that even relevent? The picture of the white horse with the bloody head looks like it's getting medical attention for it's injuries not slaughtered. None of the other dead horses were slaughtered either. Just like the whole anti slaughter crowd, that video was meant to stir up peoples emotions so that their brains wouldn't kick in and see the solution.


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## Sissimut-icehestar

I fail to see how almost any of those pictures in that video are connected to horse slaughter. Starving a horse has nothing to do with it, there's not much to eat from a starving horse. Burning carcasses again has nothing to do with it either. Having trouble unloading a horse, nope no connection there either.

Or maybe I just don't get it because I'm a sick (to quote a forum member), gross, weird, disgusting, terrible and a heartless human being. 

*Did anyone else find it funny that the video said horses shouldn't be _eatin(')_?*


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## trIplEcrOwngIrl

uhh...well..I see how horses are just being starved and abused because of horse slauter ban, but allowing these beautiful animals to die a horrible death just because noone was williing to give them the love, care, and time they deserve is....awful!!! NO!! we should not allow horse slauter anywhere!! What really needs to happen, is that we need some responsible people out there who will take in these abused creatures, support stronger animal wefare laws, and educate the public on what we can do to make sure that horses become little girls' dreams, not glue or kibble!!! DON'T JUST TAKE THE EASY WAY OUT AND KILL THEM!!! EDUCATE, RESCUE, AND DON'T PUNISH THE ANIMALS, PUNISH THE PEOPLE WHO MISTREAT THEM!!!!


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## xLaurenOscarx

triplecrowngirl said:


> uhh...well..i see how horses are just being starved and abused because of horse slauter ban, but allowing these beautiful animals to die a horrible death just because noone was williing to give them the love, care, and time they deserve is....awful!!! No!! We should not allow horse slauter anywhere!! What really needs to happen, is that we need some responsible people out there who will take in these abused creatures, support stronger animal wefare laws, and educate the public on what we can do to make sure that horses become little girls' dreams, not glue or kibble!!! Don't just take the easy way out and kill them!!! Educate, rescue, and don't punish the animals, punish the people who mistreat them!!!!


 
yes!!!


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## trIplEcrOwngIrl

oh, and since ppl seem to be asking for suggestions to what to do with these horses, well, IMO the first step would be to strengthen laws on horse breeders so that, like, they have to take some class on animal cruelty and how wrong it is, and local humane societies are required to check up on them once a month and make sure a vet sees them atleast once a year. something like that


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## xLaurenOscarx

trIplEcrOwngIrl said:


> oh, and since ppl seem to be asking for suggestions to what to do with these horses, well, IMO the first step would be to strengthen laws on horse breeders so that, like, they have to take some class on animal cruelty and how wrong it is, and local humane societies are required to check up on them once a month and make sure a vet sees them atleast once a year. something like that


 
im all for your ideas


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## trIplEcrOwngIrl

thank you!!!


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## Crimsonhorse01

trIplEcrOwngIrl said:


> What really needs to happen, is that we need some responsible people out there who will take in these abused creatures, support stronger animal wefare laws, and educate the public on what we can do to make sure that horses become little girls' dreams, not glue or kibble!!!


Hmm well, Most little girls I know loose that dream about the time they get into boys. Or, more like when they figure out they have to muck out the stall. What happens to that little dream pony? 
Hey if you want to take in all the unwanted horses I will give you my address and you can come pick up all the unwanted horses of Wy. You will probably need to make quite a few trips. I do of coure expect you to properly feed all of them, get their feet trimmed regulary, deworm every two months, have their shots by a vet(Seeing as ppl just cant do that anymore), and give them all the medical attention they need no matter how futile. Which with these free horses your going to have quite a vet bill in no time. Oh yes and house them all without barbwire, because that is jut wrong. IF you dont do all the following of course Ill have to call the humane society and have you put under investigation for animal cruelty.


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## xLaurenOscarx

Crimsonhorse01 said:


> *Hmm well, Most little girls loose that dream about the time they get into boys.* Or, more like when they figure out they have to muck out the stall. What happens to that little dream pony?
> Hey if you want to take in all the unwanted horses I will give you my address and you can come pick up all the unwanted horses of Wy. You will probably need to make quite a few trips. I do of coure expect you to properly feed all of them, get their feet trimmed regulary, deworm every two months, have their shots by a vet(Seeing as ppl just cant do that anymore), and give them all the medical attention they need no matter how futile. Which with these free horses your going to have quite a vet bill in no time. Oh yes and house them all without barbwire, because that is jut wrong. IF you dont do all the following of course Ill have to call the humane society and have you put under investigation for animal cruelty.


thats a bit prejudiced


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## trIplEcrOwngIrl

Crimsonhorse01 said:


> Hmm well, Most little girls I know loose that dream about the time they get into boys. Or, more like when they figure out they have to muck out the stall. What happens to that little dream pony?


well, the women on here must not have lost that dream. I see your point that sometimes the girls do ot assume full responsibility for those ponies and they end up jsut getting sold because the girls get bored, and then the horse just gets passed around from barn to barn. but that isn't alwasy how it works out. the women on here must not have lost that little girl dream right???


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## trIplEcrOwngIrl

oh, and btw, crimson, I have taken in 6 horses already that some problably would have been abused or sent to slaughter becasue of there personalities and vices and I have taken wouderful care of them!! I am not trying to brag, jsut wanted to let you know that there are people who take in unwanted horses and DO care ofr them


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## xLaurenOscarx

trIplEcrOwngIrl said:


> oh, and btw, crimson, I have taken in 6 horses already that some problably would have been abused or sent to slaughter becasue of there personalities and vices and I have taken wouderful care of them!! I am not trying to brag, jsut wanted to let you know that there are people who take in unwanted horses and DO care ofr them


im soo proud that you did that!! well done!!
i bought oscar because no one wanted him because he couldnt jump and was the ugliest horse going. Now ive been offered so much money on his looks alone before they see him move and jump


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## trIplEcrOwngIrl

no way!! no one wanted him because he COULDN'T jump? wow!! he can too jump!


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## xLaurenOscarx

trIplEcrOwngIrl said:


> no way!! no one wanted him because he COULDN'T jump? wow!! he can too jump!


yeah. he was too weak and hes the kind of horse now that needs to feel your with him 110% before he'll do anything! i spent 1 month just walking him across a pole on the ground because he didnt feel confident walking across it when i was on his back so he learned 2 trust me on the ground 1st before i could do it on his back! That was 3 years ago and since then we've jumped 1.60m! He still doesnt jump or go as well on the flat with other people as he doesnt trust them which i can hardly blame him for!! He was in an awful state when i got him


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## nrhareiner

trIplEcrOwngIrl said:


> uhh...well..I see how horses are just being starved and abused because of horse slauter ban, but allowing these beautiful animals to die a horrible death just because noone was williing to give them the love, care, and time they deserve is....awful!!! NO!! we should not allow horse slauter anywhere!! What really needs to happen, is that we need some responsible people out there who will take in these abused creatures, support stronger animal wefare laws, and educate the public on what we can do to make sure that horses become little girls' dreams, not glue or kibble!!! DON'T JUST TAKE THE EASY WAY OUT AND KILL THEM!!! EDUCATE, RESCUE, AND DON'T PUNISH THE ANIMALS, PUNISH THE PEOPLE WHO MISTREAT THEM!!!!



Are you going to pay for all that??? Sounds all rainbow and butterfly but the fact is that horses cost money. Even at what it cost me to keep a horse for a year which I am going to bet is a lot less them what it would cost others in other areas. IT would not be possible to keep every single unusable horse that is standing here in the US today.

However if you have the time land and money go for it. I have on problem with people who want to do it.


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## nrhareiner

trIplEcrOwngIrl said:


> oh, and since ppl seem to be asking for suggestions to what to do with these horses, well, IMO the first step would be to strengthen laws on horse breeders so that, like, they have to take some class on animal cruelty and how wrong it is, and local humane societies are required to check up on them once a month and make sure a vet sees them atleast once a year. something like that



Well that is all fine and dandy who is going pay for it??? There is no repo vets in my area that are worth **** or I would let touch one of my horses. I run a stallion station and do all my own repo work. Heck I do some for my vet.

Most humane societies do not know **** about horses. You should see them when they get a call.

I do agree that there needs to be stronger laws. That would be great. My state is one of the worst for animal cruelty laws.

It would be great if people who are breeding crap that they can not get even $200 for a foal would stop however those are the ones who just keep on pumping out crap. I know I breed b/c I can not buy a prospect for what I can breed one for. The foals I do sell go for over 100 times that price. It is not the quality breeders who are the biggest problem is the breeder who breed just b/c (insert crappy reason here) that is the problem.


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## nrhareiner

xLaurenOscarx said:


> thats a bit prejudiced


I think you need to look up the meaning of that word.

Also that is just a fact a large majority of the time. I see is a lot. Unless there are boys around the horses.


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## nrhareiner

trIplEcrOwngIrl said:


> well, the women on here must not have lost that dream. I see your point that sometimes the girls do ot assume full responsibility for those ponies and they end up jsut getting sold because the girls get bored, and then the horse just gets passed around from barn to barn. but that isn't alwasy how it works out. the women on here must not have lost that little girl dream right???


They may not loose that dream but they are not riding the same horse either. I just did some photos for a client so they can sell their daughter first H/J pony. Great horse cute as a button a nice fancy little jumper. Only problem is the girl has out grown it. This happens all the time. Even if they keep that dream which a lot do not they are not going to only have one horse.


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## nrhareiner

trIplEcrOwngIrl said:


> oh, and btw, crimson, I have taken in 6 horses already that some problably would have been abused or sent to slaughter becasue of there personalities and vices and I have taken wouderful care of them!! I am not trying to brag, jsut wanted to let you know that there are people who take in unwanted horses and DO care ofr them


That is great. Now for the next 100,000 or so unwanted, neglected dangerous horses out there that need homes.


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## Crimsonhorse01

I didn't say all little girls I said most. 
The board only has 11,000 memebers. There are 300 million people in the USA. 11,000 compared to 300 million just in the US. 

Congrats to you! I bet most of the horsemen and horsewomen on this forum have taken in abused horses with vises. I love to go to sales or pick up that free wayward horse.


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## Crimsonhorse01

nrhareiner said:


> I think you need to look up the meaning of that word.
> 
> Also that is just a fact a large majority of the time. I see is a lot.* Unless there are boys around the horses*.


That made me laugh. Its oh so true.


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## MN Tigerstripes

Unwanted Horse Coalition


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## xLaurenOscarx

nrhareiner said:


> I think you need to look up the meaning of that word.
> 
> Also that is just a fact a large majority of the time. I see is a lot. Unless there are boys around the horses.


thats not true. the yard im at theres no boys down there but girls still keep there horses


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## MN Tigerstripes

But you guys are only a few girls. A majority of girls (at least in my experience) give up horses when boys come into the picture. Heck I've seen it in women my age! I guess I don't know how old you are, but are all the girls that you know that rode when they were 8 still riding when they're 16?


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## nrhareiner

xLaurenOscarx said:


> thats not true. the yard im at theres no boys down there but girls still keep there horses



Ok lets just say for arguments sake that every girl who dreams of having a horse has one and stays with it. How many of those girls are going to keep the same horse all the way through. How many are going to sell that first horse to buy anouther horse?? The majority of them are not going to keep that first horse. They are going to move up. If they are just out there riding a few times a week just b/c they want to ride. Those are the types that do not stay with it. The ones that do are the ones who are showing and competing. Those types will need a different horse as they move up.

I see it in my sport all the time. When someone starts reining at the green level to the time they are showing at the non pro level or even aged event level they will go through at least 3-4 different horses. It is just the progression that goes on. Nothing wrong with it. Just a fact. Same with any sport with horses.

Do you still have your first horse??? As you move up in what you wish to do will he work for you all the way?? If not are you willing to stay at HIS level so you can keep him or at the very least keep him and feed and care for him and work him even once you get your next horse as you move up??


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## Void

We took field trips to a slaughter house when I was taking Agriculture and a part of FFA in highschool. The only inhumane part of slaughter is the transportation and by closing down plants in the US we exacerbated the issue. 

I love my horse, I bought him injured from the track and rehab'd him. But I don't have the money to do that for every horse. It's just not feasible. So I'm all for re-opening the plants, and transportation reform.


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## SmoothTrails

Void said:


> We took field trips to a slaughter house when I was taking Agriculture and a part of FFA in highschool. The only inhumane part of slaughter is the transportation and by closing down plants in the US we exacerbated the issue.
> 
> I love my horse, I bought him injured from the track and rehab'd him. But I don't have the money to do that for every horse. It's just not feasible. So I'm all for re-opening the plants, and transportation reform.


I agree 100%


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## Juniper

Good to hear from someone else who has actually been to a slaughter plant and to hear your take on the situation. You sound very rational, wish we could put you in charge!


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## Sunny06

Love it when *true* facts are layed out about the slaughter issue


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## xLaurenOscarx

nrhareiner said:


> Ok lets just say for arguments sake that every girl who dreams of having a horse has one and stays with it. How many of those girls are going to keep the same horse all the way through. How many are going to sell that first horse to buy anouther horse?? The majority of them are not going to keep that first horse. They are going to move up. If they are just out there riding a few times a week just b/c they want to ride. Those are the types that do not stay with it. The ones that do are the ones who are showing and competing. Those types will need a different horse as they move up.
> 
> I see it in my sport all the time. When someone starts reining at the green level to the time they are showing at the non pro level or even aged event level they will go through at least 3-4 different horses. It is just the progression that goes on. Nothing wrong with it. Just a fact. Same with any sport with horses.
> 
> *Do you still have your first horse??? As you move up in what you wish to do will he work for you all the way?? If not are you willing to stay at HIS level so you can keep him or at the very least keep him and feed and care for him and work him even once you get your next horse as you move up??[/*quote]
> 
> Yup i still have my 1st horse.
> I plan on keeping him the whole way through untill he dies.
> Hes 10 at the minute so we've plenty of time and he's staying at MY level at the minute so we will be going a lot higher before we're at HIS level


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## shortbusgeek

It's just my opinion, but I would guess that triplecrowngirl and xLaurenOscarxs' ages are somewhere between 12 to 15 years old by the word choice and language they use. Am I right? If so, who is paying for all these horses you rescue? Is it you, or is it your parents?

Secondly, I don't really care to ship any horses off to Ireland, but triplecrowngirl, what state are you in? I'll be glad to bring horses from Georgia at my own expense up to you for you to take care of. There are free horses listed here all the time, and multiple auctions every week. Horses are being neglected and starved. I don't really want to take over their monthly feed, vet and farrier bills, but I'll happily transport them up to you for you to do so. Whaddya say?


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## Annaland13

I really don't think many people will sign that on this website. I think they should just be set free  That will never happen though...


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## xLaurenOscarx

shortbusgeek said:


> It's just my opinion, but I would guess that triplecrowngirl and xLaurenOscarxs' ages are somewhere between 12 to 15 years old by the word choice and language they use. Am I right? If so, who is paying for all these horses you rescue? Is it you, or is it your parents?
> 
> Secondly, I don't really care to ship any horses off to Ireland, but triplecrowngirl, what state are you in? I'll be glad to bring horses from Georgia at my own expense up to you for you to take care of. There are free horses listed here all the time, and multiple auctions every week. Horses are being neglected and starved. I don't really want to take over their monthly feed, vet and farrier bills, but I'll happily transport them up to you for you to do so. Whaddya say?


im actually 16
and i work to pay for Oscar. Ive worked since before i bought him to put money towards the cost of him and I've been working since to cover the cost of livery etc.


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## MN Tigerstripes

Annaland13 - So they can starve to death in the wild? My mare would be dead in a matter of weeks. A lot of these "unwanted" horses are in terrible condition and by setting them "free" all you're doing is killing them slowly. Of course it may help the wolf/coyote/cougar populations and I guess it is the natural way. Hmm.


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## nrhareiner

Ya set them free on already over grazed land so ALL of them can starve or be eaten instead of just a few. Now that makes a lot of seance.


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## Juniper

Someone around here set a bunch of horses "free". They found what was left of them in the spring in such terrible condition few could be saved. Like nrhareiner said, the horses were on overgrazed land and ran out of food. The person said he was letting the horses go back to nature, how they were supposed to live. He was getting in touch with his Indian roots. He was not prosecuted because he was pretty much deemed to be insane. It is hard to believe how much those horses suffered.


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## jemulchia

Although I don't agree with slaughter, I read most of your replies and a lot of them make sense. 

However, a lot of slaughter houses don't kill the horses 'pain free' a lot of them don't even know if the horse is fully dead by the time they rip off their skin. I would agree with slaughter if it was done humainly, saddly it isn't though. There for I will NOT sign your petition because I don't believe in it. If the horses became over populated and the slaughter houses put them down before they brutally ripped off their skin.. then I would sign it.


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## Juniper

jemulchia, the horse in your photo is absolutely gorgeous!


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## speedy da fish

its the people that breed the horse who are to blame, they breed too many. if horses were bred natually as possible then this wouldnt be an issue. i mean taking sperm from the stallion and concieving foals using AI ? that means that the stallion could have 100s of foals in a year. thats not just over populating but thats inbreeding too.


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## nrhareiner

speedy da fish said:


> its the people that breed the horse who are to blame, they breed too many. if horses were bred natually as possible then this wouldnt be an issue. i mean taking sperm from the stallion and concieving foals using AI ? that means that the stallion could have 100s of foals in a year. thats not just over populating but thats inbreeding too.


Ok this has to be one of the least resurrected statements I have ever read. If it was the stallions who are being bred AI are the problem when why are there so many TB foals each year. They have never and do not allow breeding in any manner but Live cover. Yet TB stallions cover 100's of mares a year. 

Also RESPONSIBLE breeders are not the problem. I breed and this years foal was sold before it was even bred. I did not have to pay for the stud fee or any breeding related cost. The person who bought the foal paid that. So the $25K I got for the foal was clear profit. Same with the next foal out my this mare. 

In a way you are correct. Breeding is a big problem and of course it is the root of the problem. If you do not breed there would be no more horses. That would really solve the over population problem now wouldn't it??

The problem is the people who breed because.... (insert reason here.) Like I love my mare and I want on just like her or I want a baby or I want a project horse never mind the mare is barely broke to ride and would fit that bill very well. I can go on but you get the reason. Do not even get me started on the people who breed for color or foundation %.


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## Void

jemulchia said:


> Although I don't agree with slaughter, I read most of your replies and a lot of them make sense.
> 
> However, a lot of slaughter houses don't kill the horses 'pain free' a lot of them don't even know if the horse is fully dead by the time they rip off their skin. I would agree with slaughter if it was done humainly, saddly it isn't though. There for I will NOT sign your petition because I don't believe in it. If the horses became over populated and the slaughter houses put them down before they brutally ripped off their skin.. then I would sign it.


Have you ever visited a slaughter house?

Captive Bolt goes straight through the brain destroying higher brain functions such as thought, action, pain. Brain stem is usually not damaged or as damaged and that controls basic life support functions, breathing, heartbeat, blood pressure.

After the captive bolt they slit the throat and bleed them out, thats one of the reasons why they hang them upside down. They do not know whats going on, nor do they feel whats going on, they are effectively dead at this point and even more so once bled out. They don't start taking the hair off until afterwards.

At least that is what the regulation of slaughter was in the US and Canada. I have no idea what they do in Mexico, but thats where most of our horses go now. So if you really want to insure that the hoses are getting a pain free death, bring slaughter back to the United States.


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## nrhareiner

It is no different then what you do with a Deer once you shoot it. You gut them hang them so they bleed out.


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## Juniper

Thank you Void for putting some real facts in the debate again.


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## Void

nrhareiner said:


> It is no different then what you do with a Deer once you shoot it. You gut them hang them so they bleed out.


Correct and the same methods are used in the slaughter of other livestock. Though pigs go through a morbidly funnier machine called a de-hairer. And I say morbidly funny because it's kind of surreal but kind of hilarious to watch.


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## tazassape

Tayz said:


> I'm sorry to say, but noone on this forum will sign this petition. Horses are our life's. this forum is for people who love horses, not who want to help get a petition to slaughter them. These are my personal feelings and I mean no offense. I really don't see the point of killing such beautiful creatures what could make some little girls happy...


Wrong! I have signed a dozen petitions *for* slaughter. I have stayed nights in a freezing barns with a sick horses. Have helped neighbors with newborns dying. I'm a horse lover who happens to live in the real world. I think slaughter is the only route for some horses, majestic or not. JMHO


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## Tennessee

I am getting a little frustrated with all of the ignorance on this thread. No, horse slaughter is not a beautiful thing. Would I like to get rid of it altogether? Absolutely. I wish that there was no need at all for sending horses into salughterhouses, whether they be in the USA, Mexico, etc etc. What are the chances that backyard and unnecessary breeding will ever stop? Slim to none.

One thing we must all realize is that when animals are in pain or extremely tensed at the time of death their meat is spoiled badly. Now, what good is a slaughter house that is producing only spoiled meat? Not much. I've been to two different slaughter houses. One in the US(a few years ago), and one at the top of Mexico. From what I personally experienced, not much pain at all was being experienced from these horses. I did realize, though, that the one in the USA took the horse's pain and feelings more into account, which is the main reason that slaughter should still be allowed in the US.

Another thing I want to point out is that associations like PETA and other animal rights activist are only out to make humans look like a piece of crap. Sure, they claim to care about animals and claim that they are only trying to help the world, but in reality they are filling our heads with biased nonsense.

I am for horse slaughter because I care for the welfare of horses. Like I previously said, it is not exactly the most gentle way to keep the population of horses down, but it does prevent many horses from facing a longer life of starvation, neglect, pain, etc.

All I am asking is that you learn the facts before you come on here and start bad mouthing us that are pro-slaughter. And just for the sake of maturity, PLEASE use correct grammar. My eye twitches trying to understand what some of you are saying, which is sad, because I am about the same age as the other teenagers on here THAT ARE TYPING LYK DIS.

/ending my rant/vent/novel


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## Juniper

Tennessee, If you are a teenager and can write like that you have a very promising future ahead of you. I bet you will get some great scholarships for college on essays alone.


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## SmoothTrails

Void said:


> Correct and the same methods are used in the slaughter of other livestock. Though pigs go through a morbidly funnier machine called a de-hairer. And I say morbidly funny because it's kind of surreal but kind of hilarious to watch.


When they shocked the pigs at the Jimmy Dean plant I toured everyone either laughed or was just like "really???." Their ears really stick up when you electricute (sp?) them!! It's morbidly funny then too because all you can think of are cartoons...


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## SmoothTrails

Tennessee: I hope you speak firther to people about this everywhere you go. You have a very good grasp, and we can all tell you have a very good way of putting it.  Good job. 

And I second the winning scholarships on essays (those are the best ones because not as many people apply too)


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## shortbusgeek

speedy da fish said:


> its the people that breed the horse who are to blame, they breed too many. if horses were bred natually as possible then this wouldnt be an issue. i mean taking sperm from the stallion and concieving foals using AI ? that means that the stallion could have 100s of foals in a year. thats not just over populating but thats inbreeding too.


Stereotype much? Not all breeders are bad. Responsible breeders breed for certain qualities in a horse. They don't breed horses that have certain diseases, bad conformation or poor attitudes.

Your argument is that if taking sperm and using it for AI for breeding wasn't done that there wouldn't be so many foals conceived? Are you serious? Do you think that horses are monogamous? Do you think that stallion would hesitate to mount more than one or two mares in a year? Stallions are like teenagers. Their mind is on one thing and one thing only when you get them around a mare. And it's not that nice mane you just combed out or their shiny coat you just groomed. Just as people can have many sex partners, so too can horses. Find another excuse besides AI.


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## Speed Racer

We have an absolute _glut_ of TBs on the market. 

TBs _cannot_ be bred AI, if they're to be registered with the Jockey Club. 

So the theory that AI is the debbil and everything would be hunky dory if horses were only bred 'naturally', has no validity.


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## Alwaysbehind

Tennessee, great post!


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## ponyboy

Xoras said:


> And I see horse slaughter as a necessary evil. Without it, we'd have a huge overpopulation of horses and few people to take them.


Only for a while. Once breeders stopped being able to make money off their excess horses they would stop over-breeding. The transition would be painful yes but it's an important one to make IMO. 

(Having said that, it is true that the current situation hasn't solved anything because horses are just being transported to other countries).

I am not against eating horses either, but let's face it, truly humane slaughter is just as unlikely to happen as a halt to over breeding. For that reason I say no-slaughter is the least-of-all evils option.


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## nrhareiner

The thing is the people who cut back breeding are the people who breed quality. The people who keep breeding crap keep breeding and those are the horses who either can not find a home or sell for $100. To me those are the people who do not need to cut down on breeding they need to STOP. I have no problem selling foals in the $25K range. However I do not produce a lot of foals each year.

So until every horse has a good home are they are not starving then slaughter IS a necessary Evil like it or not. I would much rather see a horse humanly slaughtered then starve to death.


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## tealamutt

Instead of debating the pros and cons of how to deal with unwanted horses, shall we discuss how to stop the problem in the first place? Since breeding has already been brought up, I'll just point out that in many other countries you are not allowed to breed (or even own a stallion) without a permit. The much more stringent rules have the result of not only ensuring that only responsible breeding takes place, but also that less unwanted horses are produced. 

For those of you on the "I don't want the government to control my life" wagon, you need to decide if you love horses or the right to breed whatever you want more. If you are a responsible person who truly only wants to breed quality then there is nothing for you to be worried about. We have a huge problem with finding unwanted horses dumped dead and alive here (as well as in other parts of the country I am sure). The people who do this are not horrible monsters, most of the time they are someone who has lost a job and has a family to feed and cannot afford to own and feed several horses as well. The current situation is far from ideal, but saying you love horses too much to see them slaughtered does nothing to fix it, and certainly does nothing for the horses benefit what so ever.


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## horseluver50

I dont get it at all..

First thing.. people were all upset, and signing online petitions to stop slaughter.. the government agreed and horse slaughter was banned from the US.
Now, everyone is trying to get slaughter back!? I just dont get it.. 

If we get slaughter back, then there will be people trying to stop it, so really its gonna keep going around and round again.


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## Alwaysbehind

Interesting thought on controlling who can breed, etc.

It sounds simple enough but really it will not work. How are you going to tell any of the racing industries that they have restrictions on what they can and can not breed?

And what happens to the BRB who breeds anyway? How will this be regulated? 


I compare the 'stop the breeding' theory to how well that has worked with small animals. We still have mass quantities of small animals that are PTS every year because there are no homes..... That is even with free spay clinics and such all over the place.

There is no way, even with laws, that people will stop breeding if they think their fugly horse is worth reproducing.


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## shortbusgeek

tealamutt, in addition to "I don't want the government controlling my life", there's the "I don't want my tax dollars spent on trying to regulate breeding, which will in no way prevent back yard breeders from breeding their animals. The government spends too much already and you want to increase that by creating another department, division, whatever, hiring people to administer the program, more people to make trips to the various breeding facilities, purchase vehicles for them to make these trips in, etc. There has to be a better way that doesn't involve increasing government spending."


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## Alwaysbehind

shortbusgeek said:


> tealamutt, in addition to "I don't want the government controlling my life", there's the "I don't want my tax dollars spent on trying to regulate breeding, which will in no way prevent back yard breeders from breeding their animals. The government spends too much already and you want to increase that by creating another department, division, whatever, hiring people to administer the program, more people to make trips to the various breeding facilities, purchase vehicles for them to make these trips in, etc. There has to be a better way that doesn't involve increasing government spending."



What Shortbusgeek said so well!


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## nrhareiner

Not only all rights and money and such that have already been stated.

My problem is that in the US there are SO many different breeds of horses and with in each breed there are many many different types. So who will decide. As a pro photographer I have shot many WB inspections over they years. You should see and hear what is and is not approved and the B/S in the back ground of what gets approved and what dose not. I have seen some nice ones not get approve b/c of who owned them and the other way around. Having talked to many with in these registries and trainers that are a bit more on the out side as they do not have a dog in the fight but train and show a lot of these horses they find that the inspections are more of a joke then anything. Now it might be different over in other countries but here.......


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## Speed Racer

What other countries do or don't do is immaterial. We're discussing the U.S.

Other countries have socialized medicine; we do not.

Other countries have marshall law; we do not.

Other countries require that their citizens have only one child each; we do not.

Other countries specifically breed horses for human consumption; we do not.

Other countries ban their citizens from owning firearms; we do not.

Our principles, values and laws are based on our ideals and the Bill of Rights. As U.S. citizens we have certain inalienable rights, and I for one won't give them up without a fight.

Thomas Jefferson wanted LESS government, not more. His idea was that states would govern themselves, and the federal government would basically keep their noses out of anything that had to do with the internal workings of the country. 

The federal government was only supposed to be a loosely governing body, not have a deathgrip on overall policy. We've certainly come a very long way from Mr. Jefferson's ideal!

Americans have a different mindset than the rest of the world. We're used to having our freedom and doing as we please, as long as it doesn't harm others. Now, we have a bunch of bleeding hearts who want to take all that away from us 'for our own good'.

Anyone who will not fight for the rights of the individual, are doomed to lose their own.


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## kevinshorses

Speed Racer said:


> What other countries do or don't do is immaterial. We're discussing the U.S.
> 
> Other countries have socialized medicine; we do not.
> 
> Other countries have marshall law; we do not.
> 
> Other countries require that their citizens have only one child each; we do not.
> 
> Other countries specifically breed horses for human consumption; we do not.
> 
> Other countries ban their citizens from owning firearms; we do not.
> 
> Our principles, values and laws are based on our ideals and the Bill of Rights. As U.S. citizens we have certain inalienable rights, and I for one won't give them up without a fight.
> 
> Thomas Jefferson wanted LESS government, not more. His idea was that states would govern themselves, and the federal government would basically keep their noses out of anything that had to do with the internal workings of the country.
> 
> The federal government was only supposed to be a loosely governing body, not have a deathgrip on overall policy. We've certainly come a very long way from Mr. Jefferson's ideal!
> 
> Americans have a different mindset than the rest of the world. We're used to having our freedom and doing as we please, as long as it doesn't harm others. Now, we have a bunch of bleeding hearts who want to take all that away from us 'for our own good'.
> 
> Anyone who will not fight for the rights of the individual, are doomed to lose their own.


You are a wonderful woman. Your boyfriend should marry you today!!


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## Speed Racer

kevinshorses said:


> You are a wonderful woman. Your boyfriend should marry you today!!


Laugh! I'll let him know you said that. 

Heck, not only do I believe in the right to bear arms, I own guns myself. My .38 was a gift from my BF. We tried out several different calibers, until I found the one that felt right in my hand.


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## mls

horseluver50 said:


> the government agreed and horse slaughter was banned from the US.


*Horse slaughter was never banned from the US - it is not illegal to slaughter a horse in the US.*


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## kevinshorses

mls said:


> *Horse slaughter was never banned from the US - it is not illegal to slaughter a horse in the US.*


 
When the government errects barriers that make it impossible for horse processing plants to operate they have effectively been banned.


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## Speed Racer

Except in California and Illinois, mls.

Apparently the liberal do-gooders in those states managed to get it passed.

Of course, that's just slaughter for _human _consumption. I imagine slaughter for animal consumption is still legal.

Someone correct me on that point, if it's a ban on all equine slaughter regardless of its use.


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## mls

kevinshorses said:


> When the government errects barriers that make it impossible for horse processing plants to operate they have effectively been banned.


Ah - but you can take the horse to the local butcher.


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## mls

Speed Racer said:


> Except in California and Illinois, mls.
> 
> Apparently the liberal do-gooders in those states managed to get it passed.
> 
> Of course, that's just slaughter for _human _consumption. I imagine slaughter for animal consumption is still legal.
> 
> Someone correct me on that point, if it's a ban on all equine slaughter regardless of its use.


California - banned for human consumption

Illinois - banned for shipment overseas for human consumption


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## Crimsonhorse01

*"Legislation in the United States*

There are US Department of Agriculture (USDA) laws governing the transportation of horses to processing plants.
Two bills, H.R. 503 in the House and S. 1915 in the Senate, were introduced last session to prevent the slaughter of horses for human consumption in the United States. H.R. 503 was passed in the House on September 7, 2006. The bill was anonymously blocked from a vote in the Senate, so *both bills died at the end of the session*. H.R. 503 and S. 311 were introduced January 17, 2007. The text of the bill reads:
A bill to amend the Horse Protection Act to prohibit the shipping, transporting, moving, delivering, receiving, possessing, purchasing, selling, or donation of horses and other equines to be slaughtered for human consumption, and for other purposes.
A separate bill ensures that none of America's wild mustangs are sent to slaughter.
On February 22, 2007, Rep. Robert Molaro introduced a bill, HB1711, to the Illinois General Assembly to prohibit the transportation of horses into the State for the sole purpose of slaughter for human consumption.
On March 28, 2007, the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia ruled that it was illegal for horse slaughterhouses to pay the USDA for their own health inspections. The next day USDA pulled their inspectors from Cavel, effectively ending slaughter of horses for human consumption in the United States."
Here is the site that the information is from.
Horse slaughter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## horseluver50

> *Horse slaughter was never banned from the US - it is not illegal to slaughter a horse in the US.*


I thought it was.. Thats why they transport them to Mexico and Canada for slaughter


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## Crimsonhorse01

Please read the post above yours. It says that it is not illegal. (except in a few states) The slaughter houses are closed because they made it impossible to have a slaughter horse.


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## nrhareiner

You really want to put a big crip on horse slaughter?? Then horses need to worth more then meat prices. This means all the stallion owner and mare owners for that matter who want to "test breed" their stallions at 2 or even 3 yet have not trained them for anything under saddle. Have not proven that these horses are breeding quality.

Horses unlike cattle, pigs, and other types of livestock. Horses have other value besides their price/lbs. However if you produce a foal who will only bring a few hundred $$ then that is their only value. If breeders made sure that what they where producing was of a higher value then meat prices then it would make the price of horse meat too expensive as the horse has more value alive then slaughtered. However as long as breeders breed b/c they can or to see what they will get then this value will never increase.


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## CountryLvr

I just don't understand how slaughter is the only solution for the overpopulation? I am involved in animal rescue and I can't even imagine the hundreds of thousands of homeless cats and dogs suddenly being sent to slaughter (they are food in other countries)... there is no humane way to slaughter a horse. So... like unwanted dogs/cats, why can't horses be humanely euthanized if homes cannot be found? Why subject them to slaughter? I've seen a horse auction here in Ohio and it is simply torture.


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## ShutUpJoe

I agree CntryLver we went to a "slaughter" horse auction once and I nearly cried. I had to leave. There were so many ponies and some really nice looking horses that were going through . The sadest part was the people selling them WERE losing money. The horses were selling for $50 and it cost $60 to put them through the auction, they have to have tests run by the vet and the cost to ship them.... Why not just have a vet come out and euthanize them?


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## Crimsonhorse01

Why waste meat?


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## ShutUpJoe

That made my stomach hurt. I'm out of this convo.


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## Alwaysbehind

Crimsonhorse01 said:


> Why waste meat?


Exactly!

Why not give them a purpose in their death?


Kind of like people donating organs or their body to science. Their death helps others.

If we just euthanize and bury all the unwanted horses (ignoring the logistical nightmare of the sure volume of carcasses that would have to find a place to be disposed of) (and maybe you had not noticed but cats and dogs are smaller than horses) it seems like a total waste of perfectly good protein that could go to a good use.

We are always clamoring about feeding the poor and starving and such but a perfectly good protein source is allowed to be wasted because some people think that Dobbin is too pretty to humanely slaughter and use.

And for the record, I think it is a great purpose for the unwanted cats and dogs too.


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## CountryLvr

Crimsonhorse01 said:


> Why waste meat?


Then the same should be said for cats and dogs if you feel that way.

again. there is no HUMANE way to slaughter a horse. Witness the auction and transport to slaughterhouse and you'd change your tune if you love these beautiful creatures.


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## Crimsonhorse01

It would be a waste of time for a cat or dog. They are Allot smaller than a 1000lb horse. Ive been to plenty of auctions and to regular slaughter houses. I have to say Ive never been to a horse plant. 
I do love horses always have. I think ive about horsed out my other half. I just don't like waste. When a critter is dead their dead. Use the meat hide hair.


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## Spastic_Dove

How is a well placed bullet to the head not humane? That is a method of horse slaughter. 
I don't care if people eat dogs or cats or horses. Am I going to eat them or send my animals to get eaten? No. Id rather see them eaten than starved though.


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## Speed Racer

CountryLvr said:


> there is no HUMANE way to slaughter a horse.


If propaganda videos are your only source of 'proof', then you have none.

Mexico and Canada are not subject to U.S. laws, so we have no control over any horse that goes to slaughter now. We did have, but now that the U.S. plants are closed, our hands are tied.

The horses are also taking much longer trips to the slaughter plants, because of the distance between the U.S. auctions and the facilities in Canada and Mexico. That in itself is inhumane, thanks to the anti slaughter advocates who made sure the U.S. plants were closed down.

What y'all don't seem to understand is that animals who are stressed out _*can't be used for meat*_, because the hormonal dump into their systems ruins the meat. 

So if the horses were being treated horrendously, they would be inedible. Which would mean no money for the people processing them. Which means that the shocking videos people see as 'proof' of inhumane treatment are the EXCEPTIONS and not the rule.

I've always found it amusing that the ones who scream the most about 'no horses to slaughter', have no problem eating other animals or using their hides for purses, clothing, and tack.

I'm for _humane_ slaughter. That includes ALL animals going to slaughter. Y'know, even the 'ugly', 'stupid' ones like pigs, chickens, cows and goats.

I refuse to be a hypocrite and say that one _particular_ animal is too good for slaughter while I'm buying up chicken, fish, milk, eggs, and beef for my own consumption.

There are several antis I admire, but they're few and far between. It's easy to talk the talk, but it's difficult to walk the walk. Trying to do it while eating a bacon cheeseburger, drinking a milkshake, and then putting leather tack on your horse is impossible, and a tad ridiculous.


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## Spastic_Dove

I like you speed racer.


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## shadow250

I think horses slaughter is wrong! I have not always felt this way but it just took a little research to change my mind. I am a horse lover and I would never want any of my horses to end up in a slaughter house!


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## Speed Racer

Spastic_Dove said:


> I like you speed racer.


Thanks, Spastic. You're aces in my book, too. :wink:

Shadow, nobody's saying any of YOUR horses have to go to slaughter. None of mine ever will either, because they're pets. I'll euth them before I'll sell them at auction.

However, what's wrong is people trying to dictate their _own_ opinions and beliefs onto the majority.

I don't get to tell you what you can do with your horses, and by the same token, YOU don't get to tell ME what I can or can't do with mine.

What I see with most of the antis is that THEY think it's wrong, so everyone must conform to THEIR ideas of what is right and wrong. Sorry, but the world doesn't work that way.

_Your_ right to do what you think is correct ends when it infringes upon _my_ rights.

Nobody HAS to sell their horses to slaughter, but the people who _don't_ find it an atrocious outrage should be allowed that outlet. 

It's only the antis who think otherwise, and most of their objections are based on illogic and emotion, not reason.


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## Juniper

CountryLVR, it is back to the same old point. In an ideal world the horse would be well fed, happy and have the vet come to their pasture and quietly put them down. I am not saying I love the idea of slaughter. HOWEVER, the anti slaughter people have caused a GREAT deal more suffering to the horses they profess to love by closing plants in the US. Can you grant that point at least? (Longer travel time and non-regulated slaughter plants.) So these people go to bed patting themselves on the back as do gooders. In my mind they are the epitome of simple minded selfishness. 
In the county where I live a dog license is $10 if the dog is spayed or neutered and $50 if the animal is not. That helps to pay for caring for the gazillion unwanted cats and dogs. Of course, the irresponsible owners probably do not purchase licenses anyway. The point being, anti slaughter activists should be working toward REALISTIC fund raising ideas to take care of as many unwanted horses as possible. Change is slow and takes lots of hard work and well thought out plans.


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## Alwaysbehind

Great posts SR, Juniper and the like!


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## BaileeJJMommy

ShutUpJoe said:


> I agree CntryLver we went to a "slaughter" horse auction once and I nearly cried. I had to leave. There were so many ponies and some really nice looking horses that were going through . The sadest part was the people selling them WERE losing money. The horses were selling for $50 and it cost $60 to put them through the auction, they have to have tests run by the vet and the cost to ship them.... Why not just have a vet come out and euthanize them?


I have to say, it cost WAAAAAY more than $60 to put a horse down. Heck,$60 isn't even the vet farm call. And then you have to add in the price of hiring equipment to come bury your horse. That my friend, is also WAAAAAY more than $60. 

I would never send one of my horses to slaughter. But, I am not against humane slaughter. Its the circle of life. Everything has to die eventually.


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## Speed Racer

BaileeJJMommy said:


> Heck, $60 isn't even the vet farm call. And then you have to add in the price of hiring equipment to come bury your horse. That my friend, is also WAAAAAY more than $60.


Absolutely correct, Bailee.

When I had to have my beloved gelding put down, it cost me a total of $400.00. And that was CHEAP, because I had my own land where I could bury him.

The vet cost was astronomical, as was the backhoe rental. Thank God I had friends who helped move his body and put him in his grave, otherwise I'd have had to pay someone to do that, too!

So, would you rather GET $60.00-$100.00 or PAY $400.00 (or more) to get a horse off your feed bill? 

For someone with little to no money, in financial straits and no other options, I don't see why they shouldn't have the ability to take the first choice.


----------



## BaileeJJMommy

Speed Racer said:


> Absolutely correct, Bailee.
> 
> When I had to have my beloved gelding put down, it cost me a total of $400.00. And that was CHEAP, because I had my own land where I could bury him.
> 
> The vet cost was astronomical, as was the backhoe rental. Thank God I had friends who helped move his body and put him in his grave, otherwise I'd have had to pay someone to do that, too!
> 
> So, would you rather GET $60.00-$100.00 or PAY $400.00 (or more) to get a horse off your feed bill?
> 
> For someone with little to no money, in financial straits and no other options, I don't see why they shouldn't have the ability to take the first choice.


When I had to put my gelding down in Oct the vet bill alone for putting him down was $362, thats not including emergency farm call that day. I was also very lucky that my brother in law is head hancho at a construction company, so he was able to have a mini escavator out within 2 hours of him passing. I could only imagine what it cost to rent one and have it hauled out.Sorry, totally off subject.

I agree some people need other options. In my honest opinion, I would rather see a horse going off to slaughter than to see it starve to death in someones back yard because they cannot afford to feed it.


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## Tazmanian Devil

I admit I didn't read through this entire thread. 28 pages is a bit much to go through. My point may have been made already.

Rather than commenting whether or not horse slaughter is right/wrong, I would like to point to the cause and a solution.

Unlike cows, chickens or pigs, horses in the US are not raised to be slaughtered. Horse slaughter is necessary because there are too many horses. If you don't like horse slaughter, we need to stop breeding them.

There are too many people that breed a horse simply because they "want a baby horse." I even know of a horse rescue that bred a rescue horse to her own horse! If a rescue doesn't understand the problem with over-population you know things are out of hand.

The same thing happens with dogs and cats, which is why so many meet a sad end at the local shelter.

I do think horse slaughter is a necessary evil. I also think much of it could be avoided by avoiding irresponsible breeding. People and groups opposed to slaughterhouses should be as active in going after the breeder who created the problem in the first place. That solves the problem be eliminating the cause.

Once you have too may animals and not enough people to care for them you have only two choices - put them out of their misery or let them die by starvation.


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## lacyloo

Tazmanian Devil said:


> Horse slaughter is necessary because there are too many horses. If you don't like horse slaughter, we need to stop breeding them.


Exactly.How can people say they are against slaughter, yet they STILL spend thousands on a "papered show horse" when they could be rescuing.I'm sorry but people need to quit living in a fantasy world where every pony is loved and nothing is killed.Wake up and smell the roses...


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## MN Tigerstripes

The papered show horse isn't the problem, generally anyways. The problem is the people who breed because the love their horse even if it has terrible confo, not registered... then they breed to the random stud down the road. 

People who breed expensive horses generally put a lot of thought into the foals in order to get the best possible. Which greatly increases the chance that the foal will have a lifelong home... Little Daisy down the street with the straight hocks, ewe neck, long pasterns, long back, and bad attitude from crappy training isn't so lucky. Her value is crap. The well-bred horses tend to keep their value even in a bad market or at least they only lose a little.


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## strawboss

the papered show horse is the problem!!!
these back yard breeders you talk about produce a fraction of the unwanted horses in america and most of them are probably papered. that's what makes them worth something. people know unregistered horses aren't worth as much as registered ones. the unregistered can't be shown in sanctioned shows. only open shows. the breed registries encourage people to breed more horses to make them money on the registrations and transfers. have you ever thought about how many horses are bred each year to race??? how about as cutters, reiners, halter, and those walk trot and harness horses??? only a few are good enough to win and the rest are unwanted horses that have to find a new home with a person that just wants a horse. there are 10s of thousands of them out there. lets outlaw horse shows. people on this forum are always talking about rescuing off the track horses. they wouldn't have to rescue them if the horses had much value and there weren't so many of them. now, how about the mustangs??? i've heard that the government spends $1250 per horse per year to keep them alive even though no one wants them. i don't suggest that none of them are wanted, but the excess are unwanted and can't be left on the range to destroy habitat for the rest of the living things out there that are native. the horses are not native to our ranges. they are just animals that city folks want to see on their vacation. much like the bear problems that have developed across america 'cause city folks want to see a bear when the go to country for vacation. the people in the country have to live with a bear they don't want so someone can see it (maybe) some time later.
if you don't want to sell your horse to a meat market, don't. but don't stop others who do from exercising their rights as americans to choose. you'll let them choose to kill babies. are horses more valuable to you than babies???
the horse population in america is a real problem. unwanted horses could fill a need. people food for those who want it. dog food for the rest. it drops the population and horse prices come up so a person can sell the horse they have and buy another.
i have a nice gelding that i want $500 for and a person wants him and i have too many and want to sell him. the other person will only buy him if he can sell his unwanted horse. he can't sell the horse he has and therefore can't buy mine. that's a problem for both of us and would be solved by a drop in the horse population.
turn off your emotions and turn on your brain. why run around trying to raise money to keep 100s of thousands of horses alive until they die of old age when they could be used for good and have value now and make your own horse worth more???
just my 2 cents worth.


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## nrhareiner

lacyloo said:


> Exactly.How can people say they are against slaughter, yet they STILL spend thousands on a "papered show horse" when they could be rescuing.


It is these type of statements that just really **** me off. I am not at all against slaughter. I am am against people who breed crap and then expect those of us who do not and show to pick up and fix and/or care for their crap.


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## Cheshire

nrhareiner said:


> It is these type of statements that just really **** me off. I am not at all against slaughter. I am am against people who breed crap and then expect those of us who do not and show to pick up and fix and/or care for their crap.


I agree. We NEED good breeders to keep breeding quality, useful horses to perpetuate their breeds to the highest possible standards. Rescuing is excellent...but the good breeders need to stay in business.

Now one of the biggest things, if not THE biggest, contributors to the population problem are the masses of backyard breeders that breed fugly conformation-trainwrecks that are often poorly trained and that no one in their right mind will want to spend hard-earned cash on. Sure, some may be good horses and a lucky few will get awesome forever homes...but all too many will NOT, and they will meet early ends. 

People must stop just willy-nilly breeding crap. Gelding needs to be waaayyy more widespread than it already is and although I think slaughter is somewhat necessary...yes I would prefer to see them euthanised instead, and I don't think it would be any great strain to do so. Been thinking a lot about this lately, but you see...here in the US at least, horses are on a "different level" than other livestock. Yes they work for us, but they are also often regarded as companion animals, no different from dogs and cats. We have a partnership with them that we do not with your average dairy cow. 

Yet do we send our unwanted dogs and cats to slaughterhouses across the border? In some countries they are bred for food...but here they are not, and it is and should be the same with horses.

True, we have an overpopulation problem with our household critters as well, and they are euthanised as a result. Sometimes...and more lately, oftentimes...I find myself thinking that it SHOULD be the same with unwanted or useless horses that can not find a home as a pasture pet somewhere. There is just something..wrong about it. In an ideal world, I'd tell those other countries to do what they wish and grow and slaughter their _own_ horsies, just as they do their own cats and dogs...but leave ours alone please. Just my opinion on that.

The senseless breeding needs to stop...but I don't see that even coming close to happening unless it is enforced to the full strength of the law, so as I re-enter Realityland I will say that slaughter is necessary...it needs to be better, but it is necessary...and I can only hope that one day people will finally wise up. It's a sad situation all around.


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## lacyloo

nrhareiner said:


> It is these type of statements that just really **** me off. I am not at all against slaughter. I am am against people who breed crap and then expect those of us who do not and show to pick up and fix and/or care for their crap.


My statement was clearly directed towards the ANTI slaughter crowd. I said nothing about good breeders adopting unwanted horses,and I'm sorry my point wasn't clear enough...I Have alot of respect for people that do breed the right way.


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## nrhareiner

lacyloo said:


> My statement was clearly directed towards the ANTI slaughter crowd. I said nothing about good breeders adopting unwanted horses,and I'm sorry my point wasn't clear enough...I Have alot of respect for people that do breed the right way.



Thanks you for clarifying.

I just get so sick of people saying do not breed go get one from a rescue. Thing is the one at the rescues for the most part are the ones who should have NEVER been breed in the first place. They will not fit what I need. Same is true of a lot of breeders who breed good horses. The people who are adding to the problem are the ones who should look at buying or rescuing before they breed.

You see what I am talking about all the time. They are on sales boards forums about should I breed my mare or who should I breed her too. Then look at Craigslist.


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## Speed Racer

Let's not forget that the BYBs aren't the _only_ problem, nor are they the greatest contributors to slaughter. 

Sure, they add to the problem, but I can go to any auction and find well bred, trained, papered horses out the wazoo going for next to nothing. Many of those will go to the kill buyers, because there just aren't enough homes for them.

Where do these horses come from? The majority are usually TBs and QHs; breeds which have recognized, reputable registries and traceable bloodlines.

Why do you think places like CANTER, AC4H, and others exist? They _know_ the majority of slaughter bound horses are TBs and QHs, and try to find homes for as many as they can.

Contrary to popular belief, it's not the old, sick, lame, or injured horses that are sold to the kill buyers. They want the young, healthy horses in good weight. 

Since slaughter bound animals are sold by the pound, it only makes sense for the kill buyers to bid on the youngest, healthiest animals.

I have a new horse; he came to me completely free of charge. He's just 3 months off the track, and his previous owner was desperate to find him a good, non-racing home.

He's 5 y/o, sane, sound, and has a lovely, endearing personality. He also has an amazing pedigree, and is beautifully put together conformationally.

If a horse like THAT has to be given away, what hope do the rogue, untrained ones have?

Then add the BYB mess into the pot, and you have even more horses that no one wants.


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## horsesroqke

*Its sick what they do to those poor horses, it makes no difference if its wild or your own, all horses mean the same to me because they are my life. Maybe not to some; but to me. *



> Yet do we send our unwanted dogs and cats to slaughterhouses across the border? In some countries they are bred for food...but here they are not, and it is and should be the same with horses.


*
TRUE!*


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## chrispy

Don't breed poor quality stock just because it's "fun". Pros: don't breed more horses than you can place. And if, after all, there are too many horses to care for, put them down humanely, just as is done for cats and dogs, even if it is more difficult to dispose of the body. Slaughter is not a reasonable option.


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## kevinshorses

chrispy said:


> Don't breed poor quality stock just because it's "fun". Pros: don't breed more horses than you can place. And if, after all, there are too many horses to care for, put them down humanely, just as is done for cats and dogs, even if it is more difficult to dispose of the body. Slaughter is not a reasonable option.


Slaughter IS areasonable option!! Wasting a 1000lb animals body because it's cuter than a cow is not a reasonable option. People all over the world STARVE TO DEATH. They aren't just hungry untill dinner or because they miss breakfast they are hungry untill they DIE and you think it is "humane" to kill a horse and bury the body. I think if there was real compassion in this country they would start slaughtering the excess horses and shipping the meat to places where people are starving. That would be "humane". 

Thinking with your heart is fine but keep your eyes open and see the world around you.


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## speedy da fish

I AM TOTALLY AGAINST SLAUGHTER
although, sadly i do understand why people do it. there are too many surplus. Some breeders need to control what they put out there! = that is the problem.
even sadder is a lot of the horses, here in th UK, that are slaughtered are ex-riding school horses. a lot or riding centres have closed down here in the past decade and the ponies could not be sold. even the more tallented ones, it doesnt matter, they are shot still 
here is a video, i done know how it works in the US but here is a taster of the evils over here:




 -be carefull when watching this.
If you dont want to watch then here are some main points:
- a pregnant mare went in for slaughter, nothing was done about the foal.
- an injured horse turned up 5 mins after clock-off, she was left in a concrete yard until morning, she could not stand and was in a lot of pain.
- young welsh pony from an equestrain centre, sound, sharp and completeley trusting in the man who led him to his death.


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## Juniper

I was surprised at how relaxed the horses were when they were led into that room. They did not seem at all aware of what was coming or concerned about the gun. The guy was very nonchalant about it, which is probably the best thing for the horse, but he was accurate. I don't know if I believe the injured horse was left there all night. It looked to me like someone was on a phone working out how to take care of the horse after hours and it was done in 7 minutes. A vet could not get there any faster. I have never seen a horse euthanasia but I imagine there can be some movement in their bodies even with an intravenous injecton. It is still death after all. And the tractor and hoist, don't you need something like that even if you bury them in your back yard?
That video really cemented my belief in keeping slaughter in the US where it can be strictly regulated. Because it looked to me like that plant had a system to make it as easy as possible on the horse.


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## Lonestar22

The slaughter ban is the reason that the horse economy is terrible and rescues are filled to the brim with horses that they cannot take care of. The rescues in my area are begging people to come and adopt, but the people can't afford their own horses and thats why they are in rescues in the first place. There are just to many unwanted horses floating around.


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## Crimsonhorse01

Juniper said:


> I was surprised at how relaxed the horses were when they were led into that room. They did not seem at all aware of what was coming or concerned about the gun. The guy was very nonchalant about it, which is probably the best thing for the horse, but he was accurate. I don't know if I believe the injured horse was left there all night. It looked to me like someone was on a phone working out how to take care of the horse after hours and it was done in 7 minutes. A vet could not get there any faster. I have never seen a horse euthanasia but I imagine there can be some movement in their bodies even with an intravenous injecton. It is still death after all. And the tractor and hoist, don't you need something like that even if you bury them in your back yard?
> That video really cemented my belief in keeping slaughter in the US where it can be strictly regulated. Because it looked to me like that plant had a system to make it as easy as possible on the horse.


Very well said. That seems like a very smooth operation. When they put a horse down by injection it is even worse. Ask any vet that will tell you the TRUTH and not just want your money. 

A great thought. Instead of sending money to Haiti, which we know will just be lost like the billions we already sent, we should send them our unwanted horses. Then at least the people of Haiti wont starve and the horses wont die of starvation or be neglected in the field.


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## speedy da fish

the thing is these horse were not ill and didnt need to be put down. all horses here are shot rather than injected as they are huge animals and the injection puts them through too much pain.


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## Lis

The cows, pigs, lambs and all other meat animals do not need to be put down either because they're not ill. For some people horses are the same as other livestock, they are a food source. The system in that slaughter plant was quick and humane. A bullet to the brain is quicker and kinder than lethal injection for a horse. These horses are not going to suffer being neglected, starved or abused. I love horses and no if I had a horse then it wouldn't be going for slaughter but if other people want to send their horses for slaughter so long as they go to plants like this then fair enough. Leaving that mare for 7 minutes while they sorted out her disposal wasn't cruel, the video said they filmed her for 7 minutes but I didn't see where it said she had been left til morning.


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## trIplEcrOwngIrl

It may be a neccessary evil, and you may agree with it for whatever reason, wherether it be a way to control overpopulation or anything else. But, if anyone can look at those faces in that video and tell me that it didn't upset you at all that they were about to die, or that you didn't want to help that poor mare AT ALL then all I have to say is WOW. I don't know, eveyone here may have been saddened or atleast touched by this video but by some of your replies, it makes me dought that. Now, please do not think I am talking to anyone in particular, I am not, I am just excercising my opinion on the subject. It is a very difficult subject. As I told a friend, God didn't create animals for us to eat, but He also didn't create us to sin and die. After the flood though He did give us animals to eat. That said, He also gave us freedom of choice and that gives proslaughter people the freedom to choose slaughter and me and other antislaughter people the freedom to choose no slaughter for the beautiflu horses. Just my two cents. 
-tcg


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## Juniper

Just curious. How many anti slaughter people feed their dogs lamb and rice dog food?
I mention that because I know some ferociously anti hunting people who feed their dogs lamb and rice. Do they not think about the poor cute little lambs dying?


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## Lis

Yes I did want to save the mare but she would have been far worse off coming to me than being shot because I can't afford to look after a horse let alone a pregnant mare then a mare and foal. So I look at it with my head ruling my thoughts and like I said what would have happened to these horses if they hadn't been bought for meat? There obviously weren't homes for them since they were sold to the meat man. It hurt watching them die but I know they aren't suffering anymore and their death is being put to good use.


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## roro

Juniper said:


> Just curious. How many anti slaughter people feed their dogs lamb and rice dog food?
> I mention that because I know some ferociously anti hunting people who feed their dogs lamb and rice. Do they not think about the poor cute little lambs dying?


I'm anti horse slaughter and I feed my dogs raw meat patties that are made from the cuts of beef most people won't eat. That's part of why I don't want horses to go to slaughter, we already waste so much meat.


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## trIplEcrOwngIrl

roro said:


> I'm anti horse slaughter and I feed my dogs raw meat patties that are made from the cuts of beef most people won't eat. That's part of why I don't want horses to go to slaughter, we already waste so much meat.


agreed


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## Crimsonhorse01

Ummm.... It is used. They are sent to slaughter. We waste it when we just euthanize, shoot the critter, or let it starve to death in a field. 
Absolutely nothing practical nor non wasteful about that.


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## Alwaysbehind

Crimsonhorse01 said:


> Ummm.... It is used. They are sent to slaughter. We waste it when we just euthanize, shoot the critter, or let it starve to death in a field.
> Absolutely nothing practical nor non wasteful about that.


So true. Someone saying they do not want to waste meat but horses can not be slaughtered...hmmm... what a contradiction.

I am so 'we should not waste meat' that I think it makes more sense to put down the unwanted dogs and cats in a manner that their meat could be processed and used too. There are countries that eat dog and cat meat. That too, in my eyes, is a horrible waste of meat.

Well said, Lis, on the mare thing. Making decisions based on facts instead of emotions is a good thing.


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## kevinshorses

roro said:


> I'm anti horse slaughter and I feed my dogs raw meat patties that are made from the cuts of beef most people won't eat. That's part of why I don't want horses to go to slaughter, we already waste so much meat.


You must have a mouse in your pocket because I don't waste any meat and I don't see alot wasted.


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## themacpack

kevinshorses said:


> You must have a mouse in your pocket because I don't waste any meat and I don't see alot wasted.


Not to mention that if it is being used in dog food it isn't actually being "wasted", is it?


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## kevinshorses

I worked in the slaughter and food processing industry for ten years and every part of the animal is used from the nose to the tail, literally. On a 1200 lb cow there is no more waste than you could hold in two hands so if meat is being wasted it is being done by the individual consumer and that is very minimal.


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## tmyfrnk

Suggestion - Maybe the government should pass a law that most colts must be gelded. Then we wouldn't have overpopulation and a need for slaughter. They would have to come up with certain criteria for a horse to remain intact.
Just a thought.


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## themacpack

tmyfrnk said:


> Suggestion - Maybe the government should pass a law that most colts must be gelded. Then we wouldn't have overpopulation and a need for slaughter. They would have to come up with certain criteria for a horse to remain intact.
> Just a thought.


While that may sound like a good solution in theory, the practical application would be impossible. As with all other laws, there would be the issue of enforcement and funding -- and the fact that people choose to disobey laws every day so in reality, it would likely do little to actually fix the issue of overpopulation.


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## Alwaysbehind

tmyfrnk said:


> Suggestion - Maybe the government should pass a law that most colts must be gelded. Then we wouldn't have overpopulation and a need for slaughter. They would have to come up with certain criteria for a horse to remain intact.
> Just a thought.


Yes, another law fixes everything. NOT!

Who would decide what the certain criteria would be? And why not spay mares too then? The mare owners are at fault too.


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## speedy da fish

All of which is why i am a vegetarian...


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## speedy da fish

trIplEcrOwngIrl said:


> It may be a neccessary evil, and you may agree with it for whatever reason, wherether it be a way to control overpopulation or anything else. But, if anyone can look at those faces in that video and tell me that it didn't upset you at all that they were about to die, or that you didn't want to help that poor mare AT ALL then all I have to say is WOW. I don't know, eveyone here may have been saddened or atleast touched by this video but by some of your replies, it makes me dought that. Now, please do not think I am talking to anyone in particular, I am not, I am just excercising my opinion on the subject. It is a very difficult subject. As I told a friend, God didn't create animals for us to eat, but He also didn't create us to sin and die. After the flood though He did give us animals to eat. That said, He also gave us freedom of choice and that gives proslaughter people the freedom to choose slaughter and me and other antislaughter people the freedom to choose no slaughter for the beautiflu horses. Just my two cents.
> -tcg


now i am not a religious person but i could not have put that better, thankyou TCG, i think that is what horse lovers realy think x


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## Speed Racer

No one's saying you have to send your OWN animals to slaughter, for cryin' out loud. Just that other people _should_ have that option if they so choose.

Not everyone anthropomorphizes and thinks of horses as hairy children that don't speak well; many of us actually think they're animals. Not just animals, but livestock. Gasp!!!

The problem with the antis is that they want everyone to think and do as _they_ do, not live and let live. If that were the case, we wouldn't be having these silly arguments.

I've never _once_ see a pro say you have to send your horse to slaughter, and if you don't you're a meanie doodie face who can't possibly love your animals. Yet I see that all the time with the antis, and I get sick to death of it. 

Don't break your arms patting yourselves on the back, thinking you're morally superior to those of us who have no issue with slaughter.

Just because someone sees no harm in sending excess, unwanted horses to slaughter where the meat will be put to good use, does not make them some evil, horse hating beast.

How many of you freaking out over equine slaughter use leather tack or wear leather shoes/boots/clothing? A majority, I'd say. If you want me to take you seriously, you should be completely vegan (eat ONLY plant matter), wear nothing but cotton, and have synthetic tack. Otherwise, you're nothing but a hypocrite.

For the person who said God didn't put animals on the planet for us to eat? You need to go back and read your Bible, sweetie. God gave us dominion over all the animals, which means we could use them as we see fit as long as we're good stewards to them. 

We're expected to treat them well as long as they're in our care, and if we keep them until death, are expected to make sure it's as easy on them as we can make it.

I've seen more than one horse die, and I had to put down my own beloved, once-in-a-lifetime gelding almost 3 years ago. Death isn't pretty, regardless of how it's packaged. Once the life force is gone it's just a body, and the animal that inhabited it no longer exists. 

Unless that body's been poisoned by chemicals, I see no reason why it can't be used to feed another living creature. Nature certainly has no qualms about it, which is why there are meat eaters (predators) and plant eaters (prey).


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## themacpack

Speed Racer said:


> No one's saying you have to send your OWN animals to slaughter, for cryin' out loud. Just that other people _should_ have that option if they so choose.
> 
> Not everyone anthropomorphizes and thinks of horses as hairy children that don't speak well; many of us actually think they're animals. Not just animals, but livestock. Gasp!!!
> 
> The problem with the antis is that they want everyone to think and do as _they_ do, not live and let live. If that were the case, we wouldn't be having these silly arguments.
> 
> I've never _once_ see a pro say you have to send your horse to slaughter, and if you don't you're a meanie doodie face who can't possibly love your animals. Yet I see that all the time with the antis, and I get sick to death of it.
> 
> Don't break your arms patting yourselves on the back, thinking you're morally superior to those of us who have no issue with slaughter.
> 
> Just because someone sees no harm in sending excess, unwanted horses to slaughter where the meat will be put to good use, does not make them some evil, horse hating beast.
> 
> How many of you freaking out over equine slaughter use leather tack or wear leather shoes/boots/clothing? A majority, I'd say. If you want me to take you seriously, you should be completely vegan (eat ONLY plant matter), wear nothing but cotton, and have synthetic tack. Otherwise, you're nothing but a hypocrite.
> 
> For the person who said God didn't put animals on the planet for us to eat? You need to go back and read your Bible, sweetie. God gave us dominion over all the animals, which means we could use them as we see fit as long as we're good stewards to them.
> 
> We're expected to treat them well as long as they're in our care, and if we keep them until death, are expected to make sure it's as easy on them as we can make it.
> 
> I've seen more than one horse die, and I had to put down my own beloved, once-in-a-lifetime gelding almost 3 years ago. Death isn't pretty, regardless of how it's packaged. Once the life force is gone it's just a body, and the animal that inhabited it no longer exists.
> 
> Unless that body's been poisoned by chemicals, I see no reason why it can't be used to feed another living creature. Nature certainly has no qualms about it, which is why there are meat eaters (predators) and plant eaters (prey).


*round of applause*


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## trIplEcrOwngIrl

Speed Racer;561578
For the person who said God didn't put animals on the planet for us to eat? You need to go back and read your Bible said:


> If you read my post, I said he didn't originally, He gave us diminion over the animals yes but he gave us fruit to EAT.But, after the Genesis flood he permitted use of animals for food but gave us free choice and I choos e not to eat horses for food or send them to slaughter. Doesn't mean it's not gonna happen, I just don't like it.


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## Speed Racer

You're _more_ than welcome to your opinion, and you don't ever have to send your own horse to slaughter. I have no problem with that _at all_.

What I _do_ have a problem with are the slanderous assertions from many of the antis that those of us not against it, means we must not have any love or empathy for our own animals.

That by not being against equine slaughter, somehow we're less loving and caring than those noble antis who would never, ever eat a horse. Rubbish!

ANY animal that's a pet should not go to slaughter be it a cow, chicken, llama, goat, duck, or horse. However, saying one particular _species_ is more deserving than another and none of that species should EVER go to slaughter, well, I just can't agree with that.

Horses are _herbivores_, and as such have been designed by nature to be prey for carnivores and omnivores, just like cows, deer, chickens, ducks, sheep, etc.

There are plenty of unwanted horses out there regardless of what some bleeding hearts want to believe, so why is it despicable that they be processed for meat? A quick death is much more preferable to starvation and neglect.


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## roro

kevinshorses said:


> You must have a mouse in your pocket because I don't waste any meat and I don't see alot wasted.


I'm talking about people who order huge amounts of food and then don't eat it. One of my friends works in a restaurant and they throw out at least 40 lbs of meat a day which comes back on plates. No, I don't have a mouse in my pocket. You seem to assume that because I do not agree with you, I am wrong and misinterpreting what I am seeing. Suit yourself, but that is incorrect.


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## kevinshorses

Speed Racer said:


> A quick death is much more preferable to starvation and neglect.


 
A couple years ago I had a horse that ijured a front leg badly enough that i had to put her down. She was very lame so I didn't want to send her to slaughter two thousand miles away so I shot her in teh head just like the man on the video but instead of her body being used for something I rolled her into a big wash. In the end, there was no difference in the way she died only in the waste of her body.


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## Juniper

Speed Racer, you say it so well. Just because we support slaughter does not mean we do not love our horses with an intensity equal to any. 
Roro, I love your posts and opinions on horses but I don't understand how buying meat to feed your dogs is not contributing to the slaughter of cattle. Cattle, who have as many feelings and rights to live as a horse. Cattle can be just as affectionate and who love their babies as much as any mare.


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## Speed Racer

Juniper, do you want to know the ironic part? I _used_ to be anti equine slaughter until I really thought about the implications and did some intense research.

That, and the fact that I'm all about logical, rational approaches to things, and the majority of antis are all about emotions and _feelings_. They have great rhetoric, but very little solid, logical reasons for _why_ horses should be exempt from slaughter.

I noticed that most pros were cool headed and presented their arguments logically, and realized I agreed with them more than the chest beating, emotional, over the top anthropormorphizing antis.

Kevin, good on you for not letting your old girl suffer. I wouldn't say her body went to waste though, since I'm sure you have predators who didn't let that bounty of meat go uneaten. 

Until someone has stroked the neck of their own dying horse, whispering that it's okay for them to go, and keeping the hysteria at bay so the animal isn't unduly stressed, they have _*no*_ idea what it's like. 

To say just because I'm not opposed to equine slaughter means I'm some hard hearted, evil harpy angers me beyond measure. Nothing could be farther from the truth for me _or_ the majority of pros. We love our animals too.

I lost my best and brightest almost 3 years ago, and I still mourn his loss. The day I let him go was one of the worst of my life but I did it for HIM, not me. If I_ had_ been selfish, hard hearted, and evil, I'd have let him continue to suffer.


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## roro

Juniper said:


> Roro, I love your posts and opinions on horses but I don't understand how buying meat to feed your dogs is not contributing to the slaughter of cattle. Cattle, who have as many feelings and rights to live as a horse. Cattle can be just as affectionate and who love their babies as much as any mare.


Dogs=carnivores, live on meat
Humans=omnivores, can eat both herbivorous and carnivorous foods

I choose not to feed my dogs pelleted pet food because it is often full of impurities, it is not an indulgence. Humans do not need meat, at least not in the sense that dogs need meat. America, as a country, already eats too much meat and not enough whole grains. Pelleted pet food, on the other hand, typically has too much grain for a dog and not enough pure meat. America does not need another meat at the moment if it's going to be wasted, overeaten, and rigorously argued by anti and pro slaughter advocates. Not to mention the effort and money needed to create and maintain these specialized plants that must be designed for horses instead of cattle(for example, the killboxes for a cow vs a horse are different). Anyways, this thread is close to a year old now and I am done here. If anyone wishes to discuss this with me further, you are welcome to PM me. For the record, I do not consider myself an 'emotional' anti-slaughter advocate. Perhaps some of us are, as there are also emotional members of the pro side, but I for one am not.


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## Alwaysbehind

*Scratches her head and wonders how saying I am taking my toys and going home because I do not want to play with you anymore is not an emotional reaction? :wink:


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## Juniper

Speed Racer, I am embarrassed to admit I supported PETA when I was younger. Until I learned the facts and realities. Hey, at least we can say with age comes wisdom. lol.


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## Juniper

Kevinshorses, Would you mind telling us how your horse injured her front leg? I am always looking for things to watch out for with horses instead of learning the hard way. Yesterday I let my horse rub on a gate when I was listening to the trainer. I was letting him relax at the gate because we were working on opening and shutting. But the trainer quickly cautioned me that Peppy could catch his bridle on the latch and have a big wreck. Common sense right!! (hits fist on own head for stupidity).


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## kevinshorses

When she was a yearling she got cut a little on her front knee. It was too late to stitch it up when I saw it and it didn't look too severe so I just kept it clean and let it heal. It healed just fine but there must have been something torn on the inside because her leg started growing bowed out at the joint. As she got heavier it bowed out more and more and when she started to get sore on it I put her down.


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## Juniper

Oh, thanks, I will put that in my memory bank.


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## speedy da fish

roro said:


> I'm talking about people who order huge amounts of food and then don't eat it. One of my friends works in a restaurant and they throw out at least 40 lbs of meat a day which comes back on plates. No, I don't have a mouse in my pocket. You seem to assume that because I do not agree with you, I am wrong and misinterpreting what I am seeing. Suit yourself, but that is incorrect.


yes and the supermarkets who throw it out when it is past its sell by date...



kevinshorses said:


> A couple years ago I had a horse that ijured a front leg badly enough that i had to put her down. She was very lame so I didn't want to send her to slaughter two thousand miles away so I shot her in teh head just like the man on the video but instead of her body being used for something I rolled her into a big wash. In the end, there was no difference in the way she died only in the waste of her body.


i think all horse disposal should be done on site, its not particulary the slaughter i disagree with, although it is upsetting, its the horribe transport conditions they have to endure. double deckers that are too small fgs...


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## horsegirl15

I agree with _ jemmamalone, _i used that as an arguement in a paper i wrote about banning horse slaughter for my english class. I view horses just like some people view their children. I love my horse and would do anything. i would take my own life before sending him to slaughter. People need to be resopnsible, if you are going to get a horse make sure you can afford to care for it and stop over breeding your horses those are two huge problems and all lead back to the owners, *not *the horses. Think People!


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## Crimsonhorse01

horsegirl15 said:


> I agree with _ jemmamalone, _i used that as an arguement in a paper i wrote about banning horse slaughter for my english class. I view horses just like some people view their children. I love my horse and would do anything. i would take my own life before sending him to slaughter. People need to be resopnsible, if you are going to get a horse make sure you can afford to care for it and stop over breeding your horses those are two huge problems and all lead back to the owners, *not *the horses. Think People!


Thats your opinion and your choice. You have every right to not send your horse to slaughter. I hope you would respect my choice and not try to infringe on my right if I choose to send a horse to slaughter. I love my horses but my daughter comes way before any animal.


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## PechosGoldenChance

How the **** can you justify coming onto a horse forum, only to ask these hores lovers to sign a petition to re-open horse slaughter plants? What the **** is wrong with that person?!! There is no way that I will sign any petition to re-open any horse slaughter house, and I highly doubt any of these horse loving people would either. This just down right chaps my *** dude!


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## Speed Racer

Pechos, to whom are you addressing your rant? I didn't see any post with a petition for reopening the slaughter plants.

Are you aware that Wyoming and Montana have already passed legislation to open equine slaughter plants in their states? It's only a matter of time before it happens.

I have no objections to reopening the equine slaughter facilities in the U.S. I've always thought it was a dark day for the horses when the last plant closed, and they were rerouted through Canada and Mexico.

Equine slaughter has _never_ been banned in the U.S., only the marketing and sale of horse meat for human consumption. If you so choose, you can have your own horses processed for your personal consumption, you just can't sell the meat to others. You can give it away, but not sell it.


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## PechosGoldenChance

I'm extremely against equine slaughter, but the only way I can be at stasis with you SpeedRacer, is when some one wants their horse slaughtered, therefore, it must be done in the most humane way possible. 

What I hate is when people slaughter horses for the sole purpose of their meat, when they are perfectly ridable, young, even foals (which believe me, it happens, mostly out of this country though). Horses that are bred soley for their meat are starved to where they are skin and bones because their meat is much better without all the fat, and the gun they use to knock them out is ridiculous. They must jolt them at least 3 times in the head before the horse is unconscious, and even then, when a horse is getting slaughtered some are still alive and alert. It's not just the horse slaughtering that bothers me, it's the slaughtering of all animals basically, it's just that I'm more sensitive to a horse than anything else. And you would think I'm a vegetarian, but I'm far from it haha. I do love meat, just not happy with how sometimes it is done.

My rant must be ignored, I must have misunderstood the person who started it. I thought they were trying to get people to be for horse slaughtering.


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## wild_spot

> What I hate is when people slaughter horses for the sole purpose of their meat, when they are perfectly ridable, young, even foals (which believe me, it happens, mostly out of this country though). Horses that are bred soley for their meat are starved to where they are skin and bones because their meat is much better without all the fat, and the gun they use to knock them out is ridiculous. They must jolt them at least 3 times in the head before the horse is unconscious, and even then, when a horse is getting slaughtered some are still alive and alert.


This is probably the most mis-informed paragraph i've read anywhere on this forum.



> when people slaughter horses for the sole purpose of their meat, when they are perfectly ridable, young, even foals (which believe me, it happens, mostly out of this country though)


The sole purpose for slaughter is meat and other by-products; What other reason can you come up with?

As for slaughtering foals for meat - now that is just laughable. Slaughter and meat sales are to make a profit - Why would you slaughter a foal for meat when there is barely any meat on it?



> Horses that are bred soley for their meat are starved to where they are skin and bones because their meat is much better without all the fat,


Again, incorrect. Most slaughter bound animals, not just horses, are sent to feedlots first to fatten them up to an acceptable weight. How much meat do you think is on a starving horse as opposed to a plump horse? Again, it's about profit. The more meat on an animal, the more money you will get for it. That is why drafts are sometimes purposely bred for meat - More meat on them bones!

There was a story recently about a man breeding horses for meat. He was starving them so that the meat was 'lean' - But it wasn't for human consumption, it was to be sold as food for game animals. I believe his farm has been shut down or investigated by the authorities as it was inhumane.



> and the gun they use to knock them out is ridiculous. They must jolt them at least 3 times in the head before the horse is unconscious, and even then, when a horse is getting slaughtered some are still alive and alert


Have you done any research on the captive bolt gun outside of PETA/HSUS?

The captive bolt gun is considered one of the most humane ways to euthanase a horse. In cattle it only stuns them and takes out the part of the brain that registers pain and awareness - In horses in kills them instantly due to the different size and placement of the brain.

If an animal is distressed or in pain when being slaughtered, the body releases chemicals that render the meat unusable for human consumption. Again, the business is all about profit, and it is in their best interest to kill the horse with the first bolt and make sure they are calm - Otherwise they have wasted a whole carcass worth of meat.


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## PechosGoldenChance

What I have posted was not made up. It is what I've researched. I can gladly give you the websites if you wish. If it is incorrect, not my fault. It is what I've read and what I've saw on videos (such as the stun gun). As for your information, it sounds correct but I want evidence so I can be sure I know you are right.


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## MN Tigerstripes

Can you provide your sources? I'm sure I can find plenty of sources to back up the fact that the hormones released when an animal is stressed ruin the meat. Our university run slaughter house used the captive bolt and the students that were present said it took 1 shot and they were done. We shot my horse right in the forehead and he died immediately. I can't imagine that the captive bolt is less effective...


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## wild_spot

I didn't think it was made-up - I just said mis-informed.

Where did you do your research? I would be wary of any research that comes from any group that has an agenda, and especially an Animal Rights group, not an Animal Welfare group - There is a big difference between the two. There is actually a good article on the captive bolt used on horses on horse.com (I think thats the site?) with quotes from a lot of vets and their opinions.

I also want to say that some of what you mentioned may happen, but it happens in unregulated plants operating outside of the US. Video can also be edited to play on the viewers emotions and make you see what they want you to see.

Horse slaughter is still legal and happening in Australia - Although we call them knackeries or the 'doggers' - not slaughterhouses. I believe most of the meat produced goes into pet food (Hence 'doggers') and not human consumption, but they still use the captive bolt.

A lot of what I know comes from talking to older farmers or country people who have knackeries in their towns, know people who work there, or have sent horses there.

Here is a Vet website with information about the captive bolt gun amongst other euthanasia methods: Emergency Euthanasia of Horses; UC Davis Veterinary Medicine Extension

And here is the article I talked about earlier: The Horse | Captive Bolt Controversy


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## PechosGoldenChance

Wild Spot: Great websites! I just basically when by what I saw on a couple videos where these people were hitting them several times because the horses are face shy and kept moving so they didn't get them in the right spot. I'm not sure what would be better, that or just shooting them honestly.

MNTigerStripes: Yes, I can provide some evidence (sources). Heres one I've read and found pretty interesting: Stop Horse Slaughter for Human Consumption in the USA.

I just think slaughter houses give a bad example all around. More and more illegal ways of doing it are going to be happening and they already are. I'm just not for it. I'd rather have my vet euthanize our horses and bury them somewhere instead of sending them to the slaughter house, hell, I'd rather put a bullet in their head before sending them off. It's kinda like saying that you're dog got to old to do anything such as showing or working, so you take him to a slaughter house somewher out of the USA. How could you watch that man? I'd break down.


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## Speed Racer

Pechos, the captive bolt and a bullet do essentially the same thing; kill the animal instantaneously. Chemical euthing is the method that takes the longest, especially if the animal has a compromised vascular system.

The next horse I need to have euthed, I'm going to ask the vet if the bolt gun is an option. Few vets carry actual firearms, so I'm fairly certain euthing by bullet won't be available.

Like all meat animals horses are sold per pound, so in order for the KB to make any money the animals need to be in good weight. Horse meat is much leaner than beef anyway, so I don't understand why anyone would starve an animal to try and make the meat 'lean'. All that does is make it stringy and tough.

As wild_spot indicated, many draft and draft crosses are raised as meat animals because they're bigger, heavier, and provide more meat than the lighter breeds.

I love horses, but I also love most animals on the planet. It does my heart good to see all the baby beefers frolicing with their mothers, even though I know the majority of the bull calves will be sold as meat steers.

Instead of ranting about slaughter, which ultimately is merely the end of life, we should concern ourselves with how well the animals are treated from the time they're born to the time they meet their fate. 

My objections to inhumane treatment go across the board for _every_ animal that's processed for food. That is partly the reason I plan to raise chickens and a beef steer for my own consumption; I'll know how the animals were treated before they become food.


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## Sissimut-icehestar

wild_spot said:


> As for slaughtering foals for meat - now that is just laughable. Slaughter and meat sales are to make a profit - Why would you slaughter a foal for meat when there is barely any meat on it?.


Not true actually. You can regularily find foal meat in Icelandic supermarkets. It's quite tasty actually, I prefer it to beef. It is more expensive though. Yes, it is about profits but you also have to think about how much is costs to raise the horse.


I do know that slaughter of horses (and all animals) here is heavily regulated. I was gonna try to translate some of the rules to give you an insight but the website they are on is down so it'll have to wait.


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## Speed Racer

Sissimut, I imagine it's like veal. Fairly expensive, because you don't get a lot of meat from a baby animal.


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## mls

PechosGoldenChance said:


> I just think slaughter houses give a bad example all around. More and more illegal ways of doing it are going to be happening and they already are.
> 
> I'd rather have my vet euthanize our horses and bury them somewhere instead of sending them to the slaughter house


 
More and more illegal ways of what?

You have to check with your area regulations. In our state it is illegal to bury a dead animal.


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## kevinshorses

In any live processing facility there is a USDA Vet and several inspectors at various stages through the processes. In the US captive bolt is the primary method and there is very little chance of missing when the gun is pressed against the horses head. Some plants in other countries do it differently but here in the US that is how it's done. If by some chance the animal moves and the bolt misses they can reshoot in about 3 seconds. I have watched hundreds of thousands of cattle processed and I have NEVER seen two misses on the same animal.


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## Snapple122

Tayz said:


> I'm sorry to say, but noone on this forum will sign this petition. Horses are our life's. this forum is for people who love horses, not who want to help get a petition to slaughter them. These are my personal feelings and I mean no offense. *I really don't see the point of killing such beautiful creatures what could make some little girls happy...*


You're living in a fantasy world. You would rather see a horse standing in some field, not being cared for and living a slow and painful death then see it quickly put out of it's misery? You know how many horses at auctions get sold to "kill buyers" because no one else wants them? This is the exact reason that people need to stop being backyard breeders. I'm not trying to offend anyone but it's the truth. 
I don't like the idea of horse slaughter, and I would never, ever eat horse meat. But I think it's just something that has to exist to control the animal population.


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## Snapple122

To clarify- I would never, ever, ever send Snapple to a slaughter house, I'd have a vet come and euthanize her humanely.

But you can't go around and euthanize every single unwanted, sick, abused, old, etc horse out there. It's not possible.


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## Vidaloco

Thanks for posting the link on the captive bolt W_S it was very informative. 
I think everyone should make a trip to a meat processing plant before they cast stones at the industry.


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## PechosGoldenChance

Speed Racer: Now that, was very well put! I see your point to the T and understand exactly what you're saying. It's just that the bolt gun seems so...how do I say it...'ouch'! haha I guess thats what I'm trying to say. And I also see your point on having them euthanized by injection and how it is pretty slow, but they say it's like going to sleep pretty much. I think if I had no other choice but to put my horse (s) down, I would just take my 12g out there, you can't really miss with that. I just think that unless the horse is suffering, than they should be able to live. Just because a horse isn't able to carry a rider or do anything but eat, poop, pee, and drink doesn't mean they should be slaughtered or put down in anyway IMHO. I would just send them out to pasture and let them be free until their fate comes. Like I said though, it's a different story when they're actually suffering.

To the person who was confused on what I meant by being more illegal (sorry I forget your name lol). I mean more illegal in the ways people are killing them in the slaughter houses. Yea you are supposed to usse the bolt gun, but we've seen in many videos (not just of horses) how people are kicking them around, and treating them, basically like pieces of s*it I guess. Obviously it's illegal to do anything else besides bolt them, so I hope you understand what I mean, whether you think it's true or not. I'm just going by what I've saw and read and it just disturbs me when I see it done in a horrible way other than quick, and to the point ya know.


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## Speed Racer

Pechos, I wouldn't send a horse of mine to slaughter because I consider them pets. However, many people don't, and it's not my place to say what they can and can't do with their animals.

As long as slaughter is legal, I have no objections to any prey species going for meat. I know some cultures even eat cats and dogs, but the idea of chowing down on a carnivore gives me the heebie-jeebies. Not because I think it's wrong and object to it on moral grounds, I just find the idea of eating a carnivore completely unappetizing.

Humans are omnivores, and are conditioned genetically to convert meat protein into fuel for our bodies. Some of us may opt to cut meat out of our diets completely, but we're not genetically engineered to eat _only_ plant matter.

As I said, I love animals, and the birth of a baby anything will make me croon over the tiny critter. That doesn't mean I don't know that ultimately many of them are going to become food. 

The fact of the matter is that there _are_ unwanted horses, and there aren't enough places where they can all go and live out their lives. 

Even if it _were_ possible to feed, house, and care for every unwanted horse on the planet, what do we do with all the bodies once the animals die? They have very big carcasses, and the places where a horse can legally be buried are becoming few and far between.

Cremation is expensive, so who is supposed to foot the bill to have every dead horse carcass cremated if you want to go that route?

If the animal was chemically euthed the renderers can't use it because of the toxic chemicals, nor can it be fed to a zoo predator, so what then?

These problems are very real and we need to come up with realistic solutions, instead of emotional pleas to 'save the horses from slaughter' without having plans in place to care for, and in the end, dispose of them.


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## PechosGoldenChance

Unfortunately, you are right. I just wish there were a better way, but this world is not a fantasy land, and I'm very well aware of that. But to give myself peace-of-mind, I will never send any of my horses to the slaughter house either.


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## Vidaloco

PechosGoldenChance said:


> Unfortunately, you are right. I just wish there were a better way, but this world is not a fantasy land, and I'm very well aware of that. But to give myself peace-of-mind, I will never send any of my horses to the slaughter house either.


I understand completely how you feel. I wish it were a better world for animals as well. I also wish it were a better world for children, and the poverty stricken. I also wish that I had a gazillion dollars :lol: The best I can do is not eat veal because I don't agree with the way they are raised. I try not to buy things made outside of the USA and buy only locally raised meat and eggs. It makes me feel better to do these things. Maybe if enough of us stopped buying the products they would stop selling them....I'm a dreamer too :-(


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## PechosGoldenChance

Vidaloco: Thanks for understanding how I feel! As for the veal, yea I don't eat that either, I cringe just thinking about it. I actually stay more with venison because it is so lean and way better for you than anyother meat, besides chicken. I do eat beef a lot only because my mom doesn' like venison what so ever, and I hate it because I end up cutting off so much fat and only have a little bit of meat, I can't stand crunching on a peice of fat, I just get so disqusted! Vension, is so lean, I end up eating everything and I'm like, "Hey, there's no fat left over, not one little thing." Sometimes the gamey taste gets to me if the fiance' doesn't use enough gamming seasoning lol.


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## Speed Racer

Pechos, an easy way to get rid of the gamey flavor in venison is to soak it overnight in salt water.

Fill a pot with regular water and add table salt. Make sure it's fairly salty.

Poke holes in the venison with a fork, put it in the salt water making sure the water covers the meat completely, put a lid on the pot and put it in the refrigerator overnight. Once you're ready to cook the meat, pour off the salt water.

I did that recently with a haunch of venison, and put it in the slow cooker. It came out delicious, with no gamey flavor at all.

I wish there were no starving people, every baby born was wanted and loved, everyone had proper housing, no one died from disease, and there was no violence in the world. But we have to deal with the realities, and do the best we can.


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## PechosGoldenChance

SpeedRacer: Well, I think he does that most of the time. Would you happen to know of any alternative to salt? I'm on a low sodium diet and I've been wondering if there was anything else we could use, such as a vinegar type soak, or any dressings? Thanks for the tip too!! 

And yes, we do have to deal with the realties as best as we can. I try to think of everything in a positive way even if it seems bad ya know.


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## Vidaloco

I like Cavender's on venison but I think it still has salt in it. I also like to use sage.


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## PechosGoldenChance

thanks vidaloco! I can have some salt, but I try to keep it to a minimum and eat as less of it as possible.


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## MN Tigerstripes

Try soaking it overnight in milk or buttermilk. I've tried it with goose breasts and it really cuts down on the gamey flavor.


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## Vidaloco

How did we go from horse slaughter to how to cook venison?:shock::lol:
That is a big stretch off topic :wink:


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## PechosGoldenChance

Thanks MNTigerstripes! I will try it! 

Vidaloco: Good question haha. I'm not quite sure.


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## Juniper

Hey, I like that off topic thing because I need ideas to make venison palatable for those of us who cannot abide the gamey flavor. I am going to try the salt soak and buttermilk.


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## kevinshorses

I saw a cheap pony advertised, does anyone have any good pony recipes?


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## Jordan S

um no thanks sorry


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## lacyloo

kevinshorses said:


> I saw a cheap pony advertised, does anyone have any good pony recipes?


 Well almost everything is better with BBQ sauce !


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## speedy da fish

Speed Racer said:


> Pechos, to whom are you addressing your rant? I didn't see any post with a *petition for reopening the slaughter plants*.





Br4dRoDeOqUeEn said:


> Hey there! I was just wondering if you could do me a small favor that would help in a BIG way! In the link provided is a petition that i have made for a good reason! It is to reopen horse slaughter plants in the US! I know that it sounds like that would be a bad thing to do, but the reasons are listed in the petition as for why we need them to reopen. Please read the petition and sign if you agree! If I get enough signatures it will hopefully overturn the law at congress! The choice is yours, but just remember that horses are counting on us! Also if you agree with this, please pass it on to others to get more signatures!
> 
> http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/openslaughter
> 
> Thank you and God bless!


here it is in the first post


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## Speed Racer

Thanks, speedy. I didn't remember seeing it, and only went back a few pages. Didn't know it was the original post. My apologies Pechos, you were right, it was this thread.

Kevin, as far as cooking poneh, since it's a domestic animal I don't think you need to worry about that gamey flavor. :wink:

I'll be honest, I'm pleased but rather surprised that we're having a calm, polite, rational conversation between antis and pros. This is how it should always be!


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## speedy da fish

yeah too right! although I dont know wheter i am anti or pro? If i am going to have a rant about slaughter it is the conditions that the horses are kept in before hand and the way that they are transported not the actual killing.


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## PechosGoldenChance

Speeddafish: I know my rant was a little harsh but I'm doing a school project on it and saw some horrible videos and I kinda vented a little bit. I apologize to everyone!

Kevin: I don't think I'll be eating pony anytime soon lol. Not quite my thing if ya know what I mean 

Speedracer: It's kool dude, my apologies as well for ranting lol. I'm also suprised this conversation is...pretty calm lol.


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## draftrider

What bothers me the most about this issue is that people say they can't afford to have their horse put down.

Well, I will say that it costs less to euthanize a horse than it does to feed it for a month or 2.

When I had my last horse put to sleep, it was a 2000 lb horse, and cost me 180$. I rented a digger for 125$ and buried him in the field.

His medication, feed, farrier etc cost more than that for a month of care.

He was my best friend. Would I sell my best friend to a slaughterhouse? Never. His euthanasia was painless and quick. The hardest part was he didn't lay down with the sedation shot and when his heart stopped he crashed to the ground. Seeing him fall like that was hard, but he was dead on his feet literally. It was very fast and he gave NO indication he was hurting at all. 

When I am faced with the decision again, I WILL opt to euthanize and bury.

And sorry, everything else- is an excuse.


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## Snapple122

draftrider said:


> What bothers me the most about this issue is that people say they can't afford to have their horse put down.
> 
> Well, I will say that it costs less to euthanize a horse than it does to feed it for a month or 2.
> 
> When I had my last horse put to sleep, it was a 2000 lb horse, and cost me 180$. I rented a digger for 125$ and buried him in the field.
> 
> His medication, feed, farrier etc cost more than that for a month of care.
> 
> He was my best friend. Would I sell my best friend to a slaughterhouse? Never. His euthanasia was painless and quick. The hardest part was he didn't lay down with the sedation shot and when his heart stopped he crashed to the ground. Seeing him fall like that was hard, but he was dead on his feet literally. It was very fast and he gave NO indication he was hurting at all.
> 
> When I am faced with the decision again, I WILL opt to euthanize and bury.
> 
> And sorry, everything else- is an excuse.


No one's saying that they can't afford it. I said in my last post that I would never, ever, ever send my pony to a slaughter house. Ever. But do you think that it's really realistic to think that people are going to go around euthanizing every single unwanted/sick horse out there? It really is not. It's not possible.


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## MN Tigerstripes

Draftrider - What if someone doesn't have that money? It isn't always an "excuse". It only costs me about $100 per month to care for my horse (about half that in the summer). That $400 euthansia expense is at least 4 MONTHS of my horse expenses. You need to remember that everyone has different expenses associated with their horses care. There are members on here who spend $1000 a month on horse care and those that spend under $100. And to some people $400 is a lot of money. 

Now I would NEVER send either of MY horses to auction or the slaughterhouse. Nor would I force someone else to do so. But who am I to tell someone else what they can or cannot do with their horse? As long as they aren't abusing it, it's their business. And if the auction/kill buyer is the best means within their reach to get rid of a horse they cannot feed? I feel for the horse (cuz I'm a big softie), but death is a part of life. 

It is important in my opinion to continue to make the process better for all animals that are slaughtered. I think there's always room for improvement, but there are plenty of animals that have it a LOT worse than a horse going to a slaughter yard.


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## kevinshorses

Ideally I would take my own animal to the slaughter house and lead him to the knocking box, pat him on the neck and make sure that he was killed quickly. After he's dead I could care less what happens to the body. I would just as soopn have it used for human consumption or even animal food as have it rot in the ground. Since I cannot take my own horse to the kill plant I will have to trust in the safegaurds that are put in place to make sure that the animal is calm and handled humanely. The reason I would not send a horse to slaughter at teh present time is the distance that they have to travel to the kill plant. If there were plants closer then I would have no problem with sending a horse that I had ridden and cared for. There could in theory be processing plants just over the border in Canada that would be closer than the plants in Texas and Illinois would have been so when the time comes I will have to do some research and decide if the horsee can comfortably endure that. I believe that the horses are transported in a manner that is as comfortable as economically possible but if a horse was unsound I might hesitate shipping it 20 hours to a plant or feedlot.


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## MN Tigerstripes

I couldn't send my old girl even if that was the case. Honestly I think it would be too traumatic for her to be taken off property and brought to a slaughterhouse. But this is a 30 yr old horse that hasn't been off property in like 10 years or so (beyond the occiasional trailride from the house). I'd be worried about any trailer ride for her at this point due to her balance and arthritis issues. But again that's my specific case/horse and doesn't have anything to do with your decision. 

When we put my gelding down, my dad shot him and we had the renderer come and pick him up. As far as I know his body was used. But really even if we had buried him, his body would've (eventually) been used by the plants/bugs/etc in the soil. But I don't think that's really the point or at least it isn't for me. 

For me it's the whole "personal freedom/choice" aspect. I don't like a bunch of strangers telling me what I can or cannot do with my animals. As long as I'm not abusing them (starving or physical) it's my choice. Personally I'm a big baby and I treat my animals like a part of my family w/ concessions to the needs of their particular species. But others are not like that and that's just fine.


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## Snapple122

The thing here is that we're talking about things on a much larger scale. I think most of us on here would agree that we would never send our own horses to a slaughterhouse. This is about controlling to horse population, for a lack of a better term. There are so many horses out there that are sick or unable to be rehabilitated, or whatever the case may be. Is it really possible to go around to all these different horses and euthanize them one by one? I don't think it is.


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## MN Tigerstripes

I agree with you. There definitely is a cost issue too. Whose going to pay to have all these horses euthanized? And what should be done with the bodies? In most areas you can't bury a horse that has been chemically euthanized (at least to my knowledge). 

Rescues are already overfull. Unfortunately there are a lot of horses out there that are unfit to be ridden. How many pasture pets can people support? How many mustangs are sitting in holding pens under the BLM's management? Should we just set them all free (mustangs, sick, old, mentally ill) and let nature take it's course? That seems a lot crueler in most cases. 

I'd like to know how many unusuable horses the average anti crowd person is willing to take in and pay for. I've already got one and can't afford to keep any more. Sure if the world was perfect every horse would have a wonderful home with a loving little girl whose always wanted a pony. And she'd never grow out of horses, or in the case of the show world would never grow higher in skill level than that first horse could take her. Until it died a natural death of course and probably after being unrideable for years at that point. But hey that's the price of buying a horse in the first place right? :roll:

One thing I do agree with the anti's on is that when you buy a horse YOU are responsible for deciding what happens to it. If it's no longer rideable or if it's completely nuts YOU need to decide what's going to happen. Either find a good home, put to sleep, or send to slaughter. DON'T pawn it off on someone else, like a rescue.


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## speedy da fish

A bullet is a much better way of going than chemical for a horse. Alot of the drug has to be used for such a big animal and it can often be a long death :s


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## MN Tigerstripes

Very true, esp if you shoot the right way. I've heard some nasty stories from the vets about euthanising horses... I have a friend who had a really terrible experience, ever since then she's shot anything that needs to be put down.


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## chrispy

"How many of you freaking out over equine slaughter use leather tack or wear leather shoes/boots/clothing? A majority, I'd say. If you want me to take you seriously, you should be completely vegan (eat ONLY plant matter), wear nothing but cotton, and have synthetic tack. Otherwise, you're nothing but a hypocrite."

Ahem. I haven't eaten meat since 1987 and the majority of my life is animal-product free, including my clothing and tack. Veganism gets easier all the time as more people become vegetarian and new products are developed. I'm on the heavy side (vegan doesn't necessarily mean skinny!), and Fuller Fillies just came out with half-chaps and boots that fit me -- and they are synthetic!

I am not claiming to be perfect. Cheese and eggs do sometimes pass my lips (although there is a new vegan "cheese" coming on the market soon that is supposed to actually melt and taste good. I have my fingers crossed). I feed my cats standard cat food (those by-products) and they do go outside and do hunt rodents. Some of my tack is leather (although I just found a synthetic bridle I want to try. The search is half the fun).

I am far from stupid, nor am I uneducated, nor am I completely unmoved by the pro-arguments, nor do I think the "pro" people are evil. But . . . nothing changes if nobody wants things to change. I prefer to try to change things rather than just accept the status quo I was born into. (Drives my family crazy, btw!)

I am going to bow out of this discussion, but will contemplate the ideas to help me figure out what I can do to improve the situation. That might not be much, but I will try, which is all that can be asked of anyone.


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## Vidaloco

We have shot 2 animals and chemically euthanized 3 including 1 horse. I'll take the chemicals any day. All 3 times the animal went quietly and as far as we could tell, without pain. Any time you need to have an animal put down do it a favor and give it a sedative before you do what ever method you chose. 

To Chrispy- Take a look at Zilco tack, I have a few pieces and have been very happy with them. Also National Bridle carries some plus size clothing but it may be mostly show type outfits.


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## BrucieBrown

mls said:


> Do you have a suggestion for unwanted horses?


well, keep them in the wild,, where they are supposed to be !!


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## Crimsonhorse01

BrucieBrown said:


> well, keep them in the wild,, where they are supposed to be !!


Alright! (oh what fun) Now since we humans are predators and horses are prey animals. (get it prey) The the only natural thing is for us to hunt and eat horses like they are supposed to be!


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## Speed Racer

Crimsonhorse01 said:


> Alright! (oh what fun) Now since we humans are predators and horses are prey animals. (get it prey) The the only natural thing is for us to hunt and eat horses like they are supposed to be!


Where's mah huntin' rifle? I'se gonna get me a horse steak fer dinner! :lol:


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## lacyloo

" Neighhhhh"
hay bubba, I heres one comin from over der..


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## nrhareiner

BrucieBrown said:


> well, keep them in the wild,, where they are supposed to be !!



Sure so they can starve b/c their is not enough for them to eat. Along with all the other animals that share that grazing land b/c all those horses have eaten it and trampled it.


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## WSArabians

BrucieBrown said:


> well, keep them in the wild,, where they are supposed to be !!


Yeah, like NRHAReiner said, they'd either starved or be shot by hunters or farmers who are fed up with their hay product being eaten. 
THAT'S not slaughter...


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