# what's the difference between a buckskin and a dun?



## Jubilee Rose (May 28, 2008)

What is the difference between a buckskin and a dun? I am just curious. They seem very similar in colour. 

Thanks!


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## mlkarel2010 (Jan 27, 2008)

Duns have primitive markings. Such as a dorsal stripe or zebra stripes


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## Supermane (Sep 23, 2007)

The difference is a genetic one.

A dun isn't really a color, but more of amplifier (?). The horse will have a base color, bay (bay dun; this one looks like a buckskin), chestnut (red dun), black (grullo) even buckskin (dunskin) and palomino (dunalino), but will also be affected by the dun gene, so it will show certain characteristics (dorsal stripe, primitive markings)

A buckskin is simply a single dilute bay (carried one creme gene). Some will have "frosting" as well. Genetically they are EEAACrcr, EeAACrcr, EEAaCrcr.


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## Jubilee Rose (May 28, 2008)

OK, that makes sense.  Thank you both for your helpful information!


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## Dziggetai (Jan 16, 2009)

Ooh, that's really interesting! Cheers, I've learned something today :3

Haha, I remember when I thought horse colours were so simple ... and then I discovered the internet ...


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

lol so is Sandie a buckskin or dun?? I was told buckskin, but she does have a hint of a dorsal stripe (very faded) going down her back...you can sorta kinda see it here:


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## free_sprtd (Oct 18, 2007)

and unless it's dirt, she looks like she has some of the striping up her legs??

dunskin maybE?


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Yes she definitely has dark legs...it's strange, she posesses some traits from BOTH dun and buckskin it seems (just read about them both on another website), so she may be "dunskin"!  She has the dark legs, the frosting in her tail (looks like highlights, it's cute!), dark tipped ears, and a faded (but there) dorsal stripe -- all of which are "primitive markings" that would point to Dun. but then she dapples out in the summer I'm told (and I can see dappling in certain light now that she's shedding her winter coat) and that's not characteristic of duns, it's more buckskin...and she's lighter than most duns I've seen, looks more like a buckskin. hmmmm...I may never know...either way, she's adorable! ;-)

here, you can see her legs better in this one:


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

So I searched for "dunskin" online and here's the first photo i found...sure looks like her color!


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Well now the internet is confusing me again...I found this passage on the following website (this one makes it sound like she is a buckskin - she does have a white face mask!): http://www.horsecolor.us/dilutions/dun/index.html 

A clarification: dun or buckskin?
*Buckskin is not just another name for dun, although the term 'dun' was used for buckskins for many years (and still is, in some breeds). To see what a buckskin is, see the pages about the cream modifier, because cream acting on a bay base makes a buckskin.*

*A buckskin horse will have the same black points as a bay, but the body color will be diluted by the cream gene to a yellowish color of varying intensities. Most common is a clear gold, but the addition of the 'sooty' pattern may cause dorsal shading, strong dappling, blotchiness at the top of the legs, and an upper face mask. Sometimes these sooty characteristics are mistaken for dun, but if you are attentive, you can discern the difference.*


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## mlkarel2010 (Jan 27, 2008)

Hmm, this is quickly getting confusing


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I would say that she is just a buckskin. Lots of buckskins have a very slight dorsal stripe and some bays do too. That is not necessarily indicative of a dun. Like someone else said, dun and buckskin are due to genetics


> Since the dun gene, when on a "bay dun" horse, can closely resemble buckskin, in that both colors feature a light-colored coat with a dark mane and tail, classic duns are frequently confused with buckskins. The difference between these two colors is that dun is a tan color, somewhat duller than the more cream or gold buckskin, and duns also possess the primitive markings. (Though a few buckskins do show a dorsal stripe.)
> Genetically, a bay dun is a bay horse with the dun gene that causes the lighter coat color and the primitive markings. A buckskin is bay horse with the addition of the cream gene causing the coat color to be diluted from red to gold, without primitive markings.
> To further confuse matters, it is possible for a horse to carry both dun and cream dilution genes; such horses with golden buckskin coloring and a complete set of primitive markings is referred to as a "palomino dun" or a "dunalino"/"buckskin dun" or a "dunskin." On such horses, the distinctive markings of a dun can be more noticeable during the summer months when the winter hair sheds.


Equiki: Dun


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

I worked for APHA in registration... Your horse is Buckskin not Dun.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

What makes a buckskin different than a dunskin? (and different than a "dun", at that!) too many names for a very similar color! ;-)


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## Supermane (Sep 23, 2007)

Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> What makes a buckskin different than a dunskin? (and different than a "dun", at that!) too many names for a very similar color! ;-)


A dunskin is a dun with a buckskin base so their genetic makeup is:  E?A?CrcrD?

So they have a black base (may carry red as well, but black is dominant), Ee or EE, With the agouti gene (bay gene, again dominant, so they can hold a non-bay gene as well), AA or Aa, a single creme gene (which makes the horse a buckskin instead of a bay, had the horse had two he would have been a perlino), Crcr, and then the dun gene (which is dominant, so they can hold a non-dun gene as well), Dd or DD.

A buckskin is the same, but has EeAaCrcrdd.

a dun is any horse that has Dd or DD, which can be linked with any base color.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

wow...i thought i understood genetics to a degree, but apparently not THAT well bc i am lost! lol ;-) so could you ever have a buckskin and a dunskin that looked VERY much alike? or would you def be able to tell them apart? 

Doesn't really matter much, I love Sandie no matter what her color is called, but now I'm just very curious! haha


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## alldun (Jan 18, 2009)

it is very hard to distinguish dun from dunskin as they are rather close in appearance. The dun factor lightens the coat as does the cream gene. The best thing to do (thank goodness for science) is test for the cream gene and the dun gene.
What do you know about your horse's background? What were her parents registered as and do you have pictures of them?

I think the face mask that is being referred to is a dark shadowing above their eyes-on duns you will actually see striping sometimes. It's not a white face mask-that would be facial markings and a whole other ball game.:wink:


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

alldun said:


> it is very hard to distinguish dun from dunskin as they are rather close in appearance. The dun factor lightens the coat as does the cream gene. The best thing to do (thank goodness for science) is test for the cream gene and the dun gene.
> What do you know about your horse's background? What were her parents registered as and do you have pictures of them?
> 
> I think the face mask that is being referred to is a dark shadowing above their eyes-on duns you will actually see striping sometimes. It's not a white face mask-that would be facial markings and a whole other ball game.:wink:


oh ok thanks! i know nothing about her parents yet...she was a rescue but it registered with APHA, so they have her papers...I'll get them once the paperwork is switched to me and finalized.


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## Jubilee Rose (May 28, 2008)

Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> wow...i thought i understood genetics to a degree, but apparently not THAT well bc i am lost! lol ;-) so could you ever have a buckskin and a dunskin that looked VERY much alike? or would you def be able to tell them apart?
> 
> Doesn't really matter much, I love Sandie no matter what her color is called, but now I'm just very curious! haha


Haha. Maybe you can just invent your own colour: Sandy! They can be called SHR horses! (Sandy Horse Registry). :lol:


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Jubilee Rose said:


> Haha. Maybe you can just invent your own colour: Sandy! They can be called SHR horses! (Sandy Horse Registry). :lol:


LOL great idea Jubilee!! ;-) Anyone want to register their horse with the SHR? Just let me know!! haha


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## Supermane (Sep 23, 2007)

Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> lol so is Sandie a buckskin or dun?? I was told buckskin, but she does have a hint of a dorsal stripe (very faded) going down her back...you can sorta kinda see it here:


It looks like it could be counter-shading...


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## alldun (Jan 18, 2009)

To me the bay coat on your mare looks to be a wild bay (black points are significantly less than a regular bay) with the cream gene. One of my dun mares is wild bay base and her points are significantly faded.


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