# Ex-owner hits my horse



## twh (Feb 1, 2010)

I ride with the lady who used to own my horse. For some reason, she thinks it is perfectly okay to hit my horse whenever she gets annoyed with him, claiming that he's "pushing her around". These are the times she hit him:

We went to her barn to try out a saddle. My horse started nuzzling with a horse in a stall. Rather than tell me to get my horse off (I was standing right there, and the other horse wasn't getting excited or anything), she grabbed my horse's rein and yanked him really hard twice.

Then today, he and a horse were sort of nosing while we were riding, and she reached over and hit him in the face (while I was on him, mind you). 

When I called her on it, she had an answer down pat: when horses are in her barn, they have to listen to HER, and she couldn't explain why she hit him on the trail, except to say "That's how I treated when he was mine".

I'm not quite sure how to tell her to cut it out without getting into a fight.

I would be okay with this if he were putting her in harm's way. But he's not putting anyone in any danger.

Opinions?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BFFofHorses (Jan 29, 2010)

Hit her!!!! I kno some people like that. Tell them flat out not to hit the horse. Be honest and tell her its annoying. She might get offended but....


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## Cougar (Jun 11, 2009)

I do not tolerate heavy handed people around my horses. Is there a reason your horse needs to be anywhere near her? (Board at the same barn and their stalls are close together?) I'd tell her she has no right to being that way towards our animal and from then on in set yourself and your horse up to not need to be around her.


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

if she hits him again tell her to f*** of hes not her horse and she has no right to touch him anymore. tell her you will report her to the barn managers and make sure theres consequences.


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## RadHenry09 (Mar 22, 2009)

That is what I was wondering too. Do you really need to be around this lady? If you dont like her hitting your horse tell her to stop, you dont appreciate it. You are your horse's voice and if you feel like something is happening to him that you dont like or approve of you should speak up.


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## Cougar (Jun 11, 2009)

I wouldn't use foul language when approaching the subject as it will only get other people's defense going. Acting rude never accomplishes anything more than resentment. I've dealt with it before. Stay firm with your belief your horse does not need to be hit but there are other more tactful ways to get your point across.

I'd certainly take it up with the Barn owner or manager if you are boarding at the same property.


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## Ilovemelady (Apr 16, 2010)

tell her that, that may be how you treated him when he belonged to you,but he doesnt anymore so dont touch my horse unless you get permission.


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

i didnt mean to actually cuss her out just let her know that thats not cool and you wont stand for it.


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

Do not be afraid to blow up in her face. She has no right to put her hands on your horse unless he's doing something dangerous, especially if you're right there. 

If she ever gives you that "well, that's how I treated him when he was mine" crap again, tell her that it doesn't matter because he is YOUR horse now and how DARE she punish him for no reason right in front of you. If he does something wrong, it's your job to address it, not hers. If it had been me, I would have gone through the roof. To me, it's like a stranger coming up and spanking a child in right front of the mother.


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## Trish2010 (Mar 15, 2010)

Thats horrible. If it was me I would tell her she gave up any right to touch him when she sold him to you! I would stop riding with her.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Act like an adult and remember that when you are on her property she is responsible for every horse and person that is there. It is not a good idea to let horses touch nosesfor a couple of reasons. One, you are passing and recieving every airborne illness either horse has come in contact with. Two, it often results in squeeling, striking and other bad behavior from one or both of the horses. If you keep your horse from behaving badly then you will not have to worry about her hurting your poor little horsie. 

She is simply trying to help improve your horse handling and barn ettiquette. She may not be explaining herself as well as you would like her to but she is not being as rude as I would be.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Eh. I personally wouldn't give a crap if she got offended. I can see why you might want to handle it like an adult and in a mature manor, but hon, if that doesn't work don't be afraid to get on her about it. 

I've worked at Toni's my entire life, since I was five and helping ix feeds and just learning to ride. Well, about two years ago there was an idiot trainer she hired who played off really great at first and it turns out, he was abusive. I actually trusted him and handed Jester off to him once because I had to go take care of the evening feeds and he promised to warm him up for me. 

After I fed everyone I went to get Jester for our workout and I found the ******* with a lunge whip, hitting my horse with it. Naturally Jester didn't do anything, just cringed and took it. But _****, _I was ****ed and I got after him with that whip and cussed him off my horse. 

I don't think Jester got but one hit with that whip, so he wasn't traumatized by it or anything but it was traumatizing for me and ever since then I've been freaked out about any movement of aggression (outside the normal fir training) towards my horses. 

Don't hesitate. Just let her know exactly what you think when you think it. Yeah, I suppose I'm a little over the top nowadays but I wouldn't tolerate that behavior. If she can act that way in public, what does she do behind closed doors?


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## dressagebelle (May 13, 2009)

She may have been trying to help you out with him, but there are much better ways to help you than hitting your horse, especially when you are right there and could correct a behavior she didn't like if she but asked you to not do something, or to do something different. I would let her know that it is unacceptable that she hit or otherwise correct your horse, unless he is seriously endangering her life, or someone else's life, and to please tell you, or ask you, or point out to you that something may need to be corrected, and you will then correct your horse as you see fit, as he is your horse, not hers.


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## rissaxbmth (Feb 2, 2010)

I'd be taking my horse to a different barn or having a serious talk with this lady. You may be on her property but your horse is YOUR responsibility and if anyone hit my horse I would be moving as fast as possible. Just because she did that to him when she had him does not give her the right to do that to him now. She could have simply asked you not to let him touch noses with other horses.

I would just tell her that since he is your horse now to let you handle what he does. Act mature about it and if she acts childish and throws a fit I'd say move to a new barn if you can.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

While she might have been trying to correct your horse for bad behavior, at the same time, she should have told you why the issue needed correcting and allowed you to correct the behavior yourself - he's YOUR horse now, and it's YOUR responsibility. 

I _will_ slap an errant nose when it's needed. But IMO, a horse should never, EVER be smacked when there's a rider on it's back, and you don't have the right to smack other people's horses. That's probably one of the first things I was ever taught, when I was a little kid learning about horses myself!


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## twh (Feb 1, 2010)

I do not board at her barn. I brought my horse to her barn to try out a saddle.

He actually hasn't been her horse for quite a while: she sold him to a mutual friend a few years ago (I got him from the mutual friend). So she hasn't been around him for two or three years. I feels very much as if there's an element of spite in this: he used to be her main horse and she probably wishes she hadn't sold him.

She has made it clear she's not giving up her God-given right to hit this horse, and the only way to stop her would be to get into a major fight.

Since I don't feel like the fight, I guess I just won't ride with her.

Thanks to everyone who posted!


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

since she used to own him and since you are apparently in her barn. I'd move him. I don't think she'll change her ways.


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## PechosGoldenChance (Aug 23, 2009)

I agree with farmpony84. You should move him. Techniqually, it IS her barn, therefore, she has to do what she feels is safe. Reguardless, I do agree that her hitting him for the reasons you posted are just silly, but there's really not much you can say since it is her property, her barn etc. Well, I mean, you can say what you want but it really won't matter. Since I have my own barn, no body has the right to hit my horses what so ever. We don't let people board or anything, it's just our horses, but since we run a theraputic riding program, the volunteers are always coming to ride. If I saw any of them hitting my horses or anything of the sort, I'd make them get off and leave in a heartbeat. I don't have to get too stern around them because I already present myself in a stern, aggressive, and assertive manner. I notice they are constantly looking over at me to see if I notice that they've done something wrong or have messed something up. I look over and I'm like, "Yea, I saw that." lol

So aside from that, you should really move him.


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## polkapiggy (Jul 30, 2009)

Just because he USED to be her horse, does not mean she has the same power over him as when she owned him. Next time she hits him POLITELY ask her to stop. If she does it again, don't be afraid to be rude. But, as a rule of thumb, the first time you should always be polite. She might not know that it bothers you.


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## Twilight Arabians (Dec 14, 2008)

Wow, yea if I were you it would be time to either have a talk with her or just move your horse, when I first got Onyx I had him boarded at a barn, he was deathly afraid of people from being abused and had been badly ear twitched, when I had him at that barn the BO tried to help me with him and told me he wanted to tie Onyx down so that we could mess with his ears and that eventually he would just be okay with it, I just told him no thank you, after a month or two I got Onyx to a pretty good place on my own, one day I let Onyx out in the pasture and was running around taking pictures of him, I think the BO thought I was trying to catch him and thought he was running away, he grabbed his lead rope and went and caught him and started hitting him with the lead rode and pulling hard on the halter and omg I flipped out, i seriously don't think I have even been so angry, I called up my friend the same day and had her come pick him up and never looked back, it took me almost 6 months to get him to the point that you could raise your hand without him trying to run away... Thankfully over a year since then Onyx is great, but truthfully all it takes sometimes is one 30 sec indecent to really mess up a horse. I'm not saying your horse is like this but if she keeps treating him the way she does it could be bad, if I were you really I would just leave, I can't stand to be around people who will hit a horse for every little thing, I do believe some horses need a stong hand if there really doing something bad such as biting, or trying to knock you down, other wise I think a good "knock it off" works just fine.


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## FlitterBug (May 28, 2009)

Wow, I agree with Kevin completely. You may not see your horse as doing anything dangerous, but a horseman that has been around long enough learns to spot everything before it happens. Like he mentioned, something as simple as touching noses can turn into something very dangerous, especially when you are in someone elses barn, have some courtesy. If someone came into my barn and let their horse walk up and touch noses with anyone of my horses, I would not be happy. Its a similar situation on the trail, I've seen a "touch noses" turn into a kicking match because there is no human taking on the role of the leader. I've always been taught in horses that I have a right to protect myself, this right also goes to protect my horses.

I can also understand her frustration, as training can be as easily undone as it can be done. I've seen horses that I've worked with to be respectful companions and mounts get in the hands of someone that didn't hold them to the same standard and yes, it is frusterating.

Just out of curiosity, what have you learned from this? That people shouldn't hit your horse? Or that you shouldn't let your horse be pushy and potentially put other horses in danger? I agree that her presentation may have been lacking, but you obviously weren't taking the situation seriously. If you don't want her hitting your horse, you have two choices, you can avoid interaction with her, or you can control your child. However, I don't think that you can get mad at someone for interfering with a potentially dangerous situation that you willingly allow to happen. Sure, most of the time, a touching nose can be just that, but when that time comes that the other horse spins around and nails you in the leg, you will start to think otherwise.


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## lauraleo (Aug 1, 2009)

Gosh - how unrepectful ! Im horrified !!!


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I don't put up with anyone hitting my horse, yanking him in the mouth or entering his bubble without my permission.

No one, touches Nelson in any negative manner - period.

I don't put up with that B/S!


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## kmacdougall (Feb 12, 2010)

MIEventer said:


> I don't put up with anyone hitting my horse, yanking him in the mouth or entering his bubble without my permission.
> 
> No one, touches Nelson in any negative manner - period.
> 
> I don't put up with that B/S!


I'm not trying to pick at this, but if you were at the barn and he did something nasty, would you accept punishment from someone else then without your permission?


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## twh (Feb 1, 2010)

FlitterBug: She was not worried about it turning dangerous. She was just annoyed that he wasn't "listening to HER". As I said, it feels very much as if there's an element of spite in this: he used to be her main horse and she probably wishes she hadn't sold him.

Do you think it is acceptable to hit a horse in the face when there's a rider on its back?

I may also add that you seem to be making a lot of assumptions.


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## HooverH (May 17, 2008)

Flitter, if I was ever riding with you or Kevin and you hit my horse without telling me -I- needed to correct him and giving me a chance to, we would have words. Not nice ones, and I would never ride or visit with you again. It may be your land and your barn, but that doesn't give you alpha over my horse. I realize there is a five second window, but she could have said "make him stop that" rather than just reaching over and smacking him. Why didn't she pull her horse away, if it was engaging in the behavior as well? In both situations, it seems like -both- horses were doing something she didn't like, but only -one- horse got disciplined. 

What I really have a problem with in this situation was that the punishment doesn't seem to fit the behavior. There was no ask, no tell. Just the demand, the hurt. Most of the time my boys know to stop a behavior by a sharp noise I make. (it's sort of like AAATCH!) It gets their attention, because it's not a normal sound, and then I can redirect their behavior. Yanking one rein is just mean to me, it bangs the bit around in the mouth horrible-almost like seesawing. She could have just taken the rein and turned the horse's head away from the other horse. Instead, she chose a harsh punishment. 

And I would like to mention, sometimes some people on this forum can get downright condescending, and it rankles me. You can give your opinion and advice without being acerbic. *see thread "Should you OWN a horse" for further insight*


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## FlitterBug (May 28, 2009)

Hoover - I make a living working with people whose horses have gotten the best of them and in many cases seriously injured them. Sadly, I have found that no one likes to listen until someone gets hurt. People don't understand how serious a small issue can be and I have found that to get it through to them, you either have to be a bit harsh, or let them get hurt. Now, this doesn't hold true to all people, but work with enough and you will see that different patterns form around different mentalities and its pretty easy to interpret once you've seen it enough.

Again, too much is being put into the action here and not enough into the meaning behind it. The first situation was a horse in the stall that she let her horse touch noses with, the owner could not control that. Could she have told her, yes, and the OP obviously connected the two things in her mind because she wrote them here for us to read. Did she learn, no, because she let her horse touch the other horses nose again on the trail. I have been on my horse when others did that and I had to tell them to go away before, move my horse, or even physically move their horse. Remember, once I am on my horses back, it is my job to protect them as well as myself.

In each instance that was described to us, the horse was doing something that wasn't acceptable in that persons barn. Whenever I bring my horse to a new barn for lessons, demos, etc, I don't let them wander around and sniff anything anymore that I would pick up everything off your shelves to examine it if I was in your home. It is called respect and I have been taught since I was younger that however ridiculous some peoples rules may be, if you are in their space or using their belongings, you respect that.

So I apologize, yes, the first time, she should have told you not to let your horse do that in her barn for whatever her reason may be, yet the second time, that was your fault, as you had been warned. 

I didn't see any assumptions I was making, I used the information given to me. If you had said "we were standing there nicely and she walked up and smacked my horse for no reason" then yes, that would be very unneccessary and rude on her part and I would recommend that you stay away from her. However, what you said is something that I commonly see and with the details that you gave me, that was the conclusion I came to.

As far as him not listening to her, again, this is something I see regularly. If a person is not controlling their horse, then I am going to assume the lead position for the safety of the herd (people and horses). In which case, yes, they would need to listen to me.

As far as hitting him with a rider on his back....... I'm missing the point here. I see it being even more important to have control over your horse if you are on their back. From what you are describing, she made one sharp correction. Not something that was carrying on without meaning. I have never seen a head shy or any other kind of shy horse from an appropriate physical correction. I see shy horses made from inconsistency and poor timing. The jerking on the mouth could have been avoided and she was at fault there. I'm just trying to make you see both sides here, that both parties were at fault. You weren't controlling your horse, and she could have told you verbally the first time and used a different technique the second time.

I apologize if I sound condescending, but it is something that I see far too often. Hoover, I would like to think that if we were riding together, you would not allow your horse to invade my horses space, because if you did more than once, you are right, we would not ride together because I would not compromise my horses safety or my own safety like that.

Remember the quote, "think about what happened before what happened happened." That is how you fix problems. You have to correct the source, not the end result. The source of this problem was the action that the horse made. Could the other person have been nicer in how they handled it? Yes, they could have, and if you don't like what they did, then avoid interaction with them. However, please learn from this and know that you could have controlled your horse. I have sold horses that I wish I hadn't sold, I don't walk up to them and hit them because of it, but if their new owner let them invade my or my horses space, then yes, I would always defend myself.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

> I'm not trying to pick at this, but if you were at the barn and he did something nasty, would you accept punishment from someone else then without your permission?


Nope. I would blow a fuse if someone hit my horse. 

I pay the barn to take care of my horse, to make sure he is fed and safe. I do not pay any of them to be my horses trainer, or disciplinarian. 

There are quite a few naughty horses at the barn I am at, and the men who work there are large and big and can handle any situation that occurs, but NEVER have I EVER seen them hit a horse.

Most of the handlers can get the horse back under control and continue on doing what they were doing, to ensure that the horse and other boarders horses are not in danger.

If my horse was being naughty, they would never discipline him in the manner others here would think - which is striking at the horse - they would just calmly and cooly ride out the scenario and move on.

IF ANYONE jerked my horse in his mouth, or hit him or struck him for any reason what-so-ever - I would rip them a new one, and move to a new barn.

It is absolutely unacceptale to me, to hit a horse that does not belong to you. 

I have been asked my boarders to help work with their horses, for instance, I worked with a horse that is hard to load, and I had some pretty interesting situations occur, but not once did I hit the horse. 

I've had horses ram into me, I've had horses forget my presence and walk all over me, but I don't hit them. I use my body language to fix the sitation and that works well for me. I learn to read the horses body language to keep one step ahead of the animal. 

And I if I see a situation that boarders aren't privvy to picking up on, I'll shout out "Hey, don't let your horse do that, because this is going to happen" and they quickly stop doing what they are doing, grab their horse and move them into a different position to prevent what may occur, from happening.

There is no need to hit someone's horse. There is no need to jar a horse in his mouth.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

MIEventer said:


> I pay the barn to take care of my horse, to make sure he is fed and safe. I do not pay any of them to be my horses trainer, or disciplinarian.


:-o

So, they are have to deal with your horse and have to put up with any bad behavior your horse decides to do along the way?

I can not imagine telling my barn owner that they are not allowed to punish my horse when he has one of those very rare moments where he forgets he is a good boy.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

I'm with Kevin and Flitter. If your horse is on my horse (nuzzling, rubbing, whatever) and I see you take no action to correct the situation, I will correct it. By not handling the situation - YOU are putting all four of us in potential danger.


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## kmacdougall (Feb 12, 2010)

Alwaysbehind said:


> :-o
> 
> So, they are have to deal with your horse and have to put up with any bad behavior your horse decides to do along the way?
> 
> I can not imagine telling my barn owner that they are not allowed to punish my horse when he has one of those very rare moments where he forgets he is a good boy.


I would have to agree. If my horse "shoved me" or such, you're darn right he'd be getting a smack. (Though I must admit, my favorite way to correct this is to grab the skin on his chest and just do a quick twist. I can also catch my horses if they escape with this method.) What if he decided to shove a child? He could easily walk over a child and do serious harm. He needs to understand that with every action there is a consequence. Horses are big, powerful animals, and I'm not saying "oh beat your horse" but there are situations where even the most saintly of horses need to be shown order.
I would expect and encourage my BO to do this. My horse would be in a "public" place where I was not available to watch over his actions all of the time. No, I'm not saying beat him, jerk his face, kick him, etc. But smacking him on the shoulder isn't going to hurt him and if you use it sparingly it's an effective form of discipline because your horse will think to himself "oh, no one ever smacks me, I must have done something wrong!!"


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## Rule of Reason (Feb 11, 2010)

mls said:


> I'm with Kevin and Flitter. If your horse is on my horse (nuzzling, rubbing, whatever) and I see you take no action to correct the situation, I will correct it. By not handling the situation - YOU are putting all four of us in potential danger.


Me too. I've seen way too many times when what starts out looking like a friendly nuzzle, 15 seconds later is squeal, wheel, and kick. 

My horse is boarded and has been disciplined without my knowledge for misbehaviors that have happened when I wasn't there. The barn owner told me about the situation the next time I came. I'd have more of an issue if she HADN'T done the disciplining, as it would be encouraging the bad behavior.


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## Equus_girl (Jan 25, 2009)

Does sound like she is out of line to be hitting your horse without giving you a chance to correct it. However I have smacked other people's horses when they were placing me in a dangerous situation. Once I was helping someone catch some horses and we had them in a corral. I walked the horse towards the opening, to load them into the trailer outside of the corral. Suddenly the horse spooked (no horses around it) and was inches from slamming me into the corral. I had half a second to think. I gave the horse a slap on the shoulder, raised my voice and with my body language made it get over. If I hadn't I would have been seriously hurt.

I have also slapped young horses I was working with when they were being brats. Like biting, trying to plunge into me ect. However I try to do everything else possible before slapping them. When I was teaching some foals to pick up their feet, two of them would nip me when I picked their feet up. Obviously I didn't want to smack them in the mouth, so I just stuck my elbow out and they bumped themselves each time they tried to bite. They didn't like it and so stopped. Not one of them is headshy or nervous to this day and they LOVE people and are extremely well mannered.

What I do not agree with is when people hit horses on their heads. Unless it is a light pop to the nose for biting I guess. But I have seen too many headshy horses to want to do that. A horse will kick or bite another horse a lot harder than you could ever slap it with your hand so I really don't feel it is abuse if it is a quick reprimend for bad behavior.

I think it is important to be careful with other people's horses as they are not your own, however if I am in danger of being injured or killed I will not hesitate to give a horse a slap on their chest or shoulder.


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## twh (Feb 1, 2010)

Since the users here who are agreeing with her hitting the horse are doing a lot of assuming lurid facts not in evidence, I conclude that it indeed was unacceptable for her to hit my horse when he wasn't doing anything. 

Thanks to everyone who posted!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> when he wasn't doing anything.


You yourself said he was touching noses, and numerous posters here have detailed how dangerous that can be - A friend of mine was kicked in the foot after some innocent sniffing of noses - But do go ahead and stick your head in the sand and say that anyone not agreeing is assuming things.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

I agree with both sides of this, to an extent.

Horses have personal space, just like people, and those personal space issues shouldn't be crossed when horses are being handled/rode.
Trail rides/arena's offered for public use often have courtesy rules - red ribbons for kickers, horse length between each horse for space - because when some horses get crowed, like people, they can get very cranky and things can escalate into a nasty situation very quickly. 
Everyone should be mindful of personal space bubbles. They are very important.

However, if I were riding with someone and in a moment of lasped attention (as it happens) and noses were touched and the other rider smacked my horse, I'd blow a freaking gasket. It would be a brave soul whoever raised a hand to my horses. I'd probably take the reins and smack her (HER, not her horse, mind you) right back. Politically correct? No. But neither is smacking someone else's horse when the owner is right there to take care of it. 
The owner also has to be on the ball about these things, too, though.


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