# New trainer, new outlook.



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

good to hear that you have some good help and goals!


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

This sounds like it's going to be exciting. I agree with taking the time. Nice and easy.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Slow and steady wins the race and the ribbons! Sounds like you've got a good one there.


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

Little update! We had a little breakthrough today-
My trainer came Thursday, free lunged my guy, and then started teaching him to line lunge, and he did at least one circle, lol! Kinda discouraging.
Today she came, free lunged him, got him on the line lunge, and it’s like his attitude switched, he walked and trotted out on the lunge line, did not fuss at all about it, and stayed out in the circle and didn’t come in once unless asked too.
She was expecting us to do another 6 months of ground work, and some riding here and there ( just her riding) but she said she’s going to continue line lunging, but she’s going to start some riding later this week, which is super exciting because we were both shocked that he did so good! Which means I can start doing riding work sooner.
I was so proud of him today! I have no clue where this good attitude came from, but it’s like something clicked in his brain, or he gained some more respect.


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## Morgan.taylor (Sep 1, 2020)

baysfordays said:


> Little update! We had a little breakthrough today-
> My trainer came Thursday, free lunged my guy, and then started teaching him to line lunge, and he did at least one circle, lol! Kinda discouraging.
> Today she came, free lunged him, got him on the line lunge, and it’s like his attitude switched, he walked and trotted out on the lunge line, did not fuss at all about it, and stayed out in the circle and didn’t come in once unless asked too.
> She was expecting us to do another 6 months of ground work, and some riding here and there ( just her riding) but she said she’s going to continue line lunging, but she’s going to start some riding later this week, which is super exciting because we were both shocked that he did so good! Which means I can start doing riding work sooner.
> I was so proud of him today! I have no clue where this good attitude came from, but it’s like something clicked in his brain, or he gained some more respect.


Finding the right “fit” can make ALL of the difference! Glad it is working out.


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

Today was a very discouraging training day, I knew I would have days like this though!
My dude has showed me and the trainer, his bad attitude, and bad behavioral issues.
He’s the type of horse that gets bored really fast, and then come up with ideas, and is really mean.
He picked up the habit (we think he came with the habit) of coming after you once he’s tired and he gets extremely aggressive.so we have to really watch him…
I don’t put up with any aggression like this..it’s SO disrespectful..
Thankfully my trainer has dealt with thousands of OTTBS with this issue, in fact, her ottb is literally my OTTBs twin (as in behavioral issues and personality)
We’re gonna take a little bit of a different approach tomorrow, and come to with a different training plan..
Also..
What’s yalls opinion on “breaking a horses spirit?”
Because she mentioned that we might have to break his spirit a little bit, she said she absolutely hates too, but when a horse actually gets this aggressive, we will have to, she said she had the same issue with her ottb, he was so aggressive that multiple people told her to put him down (she didn’t, and now he’s one of the best horses!) but she had to break his spirit just a tad.

discouraging, but I can’t have a dangerous horse.

Anyway, I was hoping to train him as a hunter, but my trainer said keep an open mind just in cause because he may be better off a show jumper, though it’s possible for him to be a hunter, but it’ll take longer…

but, my saddle fitter came today to check my new saddle, and said thoroughbreds are great hunters..which was good to hear.

im hoping we can come up with a better plan or approach to deal with this behavior.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

what does breaking his spirit mean? What does that entail training wise?


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

baysfordays said:


> Little update! We had a little breakthrough today-
> My trainer came Thursday, free lunged my guy, and then started teaching him to line lunge, and he did at least one circle, lol! Kinda discouraging.
> Today she came, free lunged him, got him on the line lunge, and it’s like his attitude switched, he walked and trotted out on the lunge line, did not fuss at all about it, and stayed out in the circle and didn’t come in once unless asked too.
> She was expecting us to do another 6 months of ground work, and some riding here and there ( just her riding) but she said she’s going to continue line lunging, but she’s going to start some riding later this week, which is super exciting because we were both shocked that he did so good! Which means I can start doing riding work sooner.
> I was so proud of him today! I have no clue where this good attitude came from, but it’s like something clicked in his brain, or he gained some more respect.


What it says is that this person asked in a manner that the horse understood and the horse responded to training instilled prior to when he came to you.


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

LoriF said:


> what does breaking his spirit mean? What does that entail training wise?


I looked it up, because I’m not 100 percent sure, but 
“*to break the horse's spirit in order to dominate the horse and bend its will to the trainer's by a struggle*.” Some horses will looked drugged or depressed, I didn’t want his spirit broken, but she said not fully, just a tad.. I would hate to have a horse that hates its life. 
im not really sure, but I’m gonna ask..she said she’ll discuss training plans today, so ill update yall


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I'm sorry bays, but I've worked with and owned OTTB for nearly 40 years, actually longer and bad attitude and bad behavioral issues are made by people who handle the horse or expect something of the animal that has been previously allowed or not corrected or it not know/understand. Few horses truly have either trait naturally....
Thoroughbreds who race, so prior to OTTB status _are_ handled by professional grooms and trainers. They don't have manners of a riding horse but a work-horse, as in a job to do and they do it, then earned the right to be left alone and not nagged.. Fact.

The horses, specifically Thoroughbreds I have had the pleasure of working with and caring for had a work ethic of do and do it right, please and get a praise for it and lets move on.
They can be and often are sensitive to your body English and how you handle them.
So many of the problems people make huge deals of *are* of the person handling/riding making... 
Animals follow the lead of their handler 99% of the time....what you really know and what you tell differently the animal shows you up for either as full of crap or indeed you know what you spouted off about.
Humanizing them, putting emotions and brain thought of humans on a animal is just wrong as is categorizing them._
_
Till _you change_ toward and understand you took a horse with no to little clue about being a riding horse or being handled as such and start to educate him correctly you will not have a rewarding experience dealing with a animal so smart he has you pegged for what you truly know and don't know.

When someone {trainer} with more experience took being in charge, the animal responded by making a great attempt to do what they think is being asked of them...figuring it out.
Thoroughbreds are a animal wanting to please, have a work ethic known for and recognized. 
Making him a hunter or show jumper..._your trainer_ should already be seeing a way of movement and travel that each of those different goals need in your athlete to become.

You bought a green animal, one from a off-track sale barn I believe it was and need to educate the animal in a new occupation.
That doesn't mean he has a bad attitude or bad behavior but instead maybe no one has formally introduced different to the animal now expecting....
Taking on a animal not already made indeed shows us what we really know or not cause the end result _*is*_ at your hand and made.
🐴... _jmo..._


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

What’s really confusing about it is that he did perfect for 5 days straight, and lunged perfectly on the line, and then he completely switched to being aggressive.. he won’t even lunge on the line anymore, and we continued to do the same thing everyday, so we’re tying to figure out the behavior, and rule out any pain.. 
he has no health issues, and we can’t find any pain, so we’re thinking behavioral issues, it could have even been from anxiety my trainer said, because the people I bought him from only had 3 rides under saddle straight off the track.


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

horselovinguy said:


> I'm sorry bays, but I've worked with and owned OTTB for nearly 40 years, actually longer and bad attitude and bad behavioral issues are made by people who handle the horse or expect something of the animal that has been previously allowed or not corrected or it not know/understand. Few horses truly have either trait naturally....
> Thoroughbreds who race, so prior to OTTB status _are_ handled by professional grooms and trainers. They don't have manners of a riding horse but a work-horse, as in a job to do and they do it, then earned the right to be left alone and not nagged.. Fact.
> 
> The horses, specifically Thoroughbreds I have had the pleasure of working with and caring for had a work ethic of do and do it right, please and get a praise for it and lets move on.
> ...


Yes I know, thanks though.
I haven’t done anything that I know has created this behavior (well
If I have, I’ll happily take the blame) that has caused his behavioral issues, but it could have easily been my last trainer because she didn’t know was she was doing. We’re starting from the ground up..we aren’t planning to ride him anytime soon.
he does have a sticky stifle so
We’re gonna get the vet out to see if it’s arthritis or lack of muscle. !Just want to make it clear that my trainer is the one working with him now!
She’s one of the best around, and has worked with ottbs her whole life. This has only been a week of
training, she said she can’t tell me everything about him In one week..so we’re doing basics with him.


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

I also just want to make it clear that I don’t know everything about ottbs, and every single ottb is different, mine has behavioral issues, and that’s just how it is, I know y’all have some opinions on that, but please don’t come at me for it..I know every trainer has a different way of training, and some of y’all won’t agree with this or that…I just wanted to share how he was coming along in the training


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

baysfordays said:


> What’s really confusing about it is that he did perfect for 5 days straight, and lunged perfectly on the line, and then he completely switched to being aggressive.. he won’t even lunge on the line anymore, and we continued to do the same thing everyday, so we’re tying to figure out the behavior, and rule out any pain..
> he has no health issues, and we can’t find any pain, so we’re thinking behavioral issues, it could have even been from anxiety my trainer said, because the people I bought him from only had 3 rides under saddle straight off the track.


So from Monday when he worked great to Friday when things fell apart he was perfect? You've brought this horse up in discussions over and over yet the end result is always the same. The one constant is you - the owner. That puts a lot of his behavior or lack of on you. There's always an excuse with tack or a trainers thar were supposed to be world class that didn't live up to your expectations.

I'd say working with thousands of OTTBs is quite the stretch.


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

QtrBel said:


> So from Monday when he worked great to Friday when things fell apart he was perfect? You've brought this horse up in discussions over and over yet the end result is always the same. The one constant is you - the owner. That puts a lot of his behavior or lack of on you. There's always an excuse with tack or a trainers thar were supposed to be world class that didn't live up to your expectations.
> 
> I'd say working with thousands of OTTBs is quite the stretch.


There’s no excuse. Thoroughbreds tend to have great days, and then bad days. Yes I’ve brought him up in discussions but not recently, most of those issues are solved. the trainer is coming everyday, and the day or days she doesn’t come, she tells me and shows me how to work with him. The tack was a huge issue, he has a low pallete, so he’s sensitive to some bits, his saddle didn’t fit, and I just bought a new one and the saddle fitter just came out yesterday and said the saddle fits him perfectly, we aren’t riding him currently.
my last trainer was bad, she did cause some of his issues, she did not know how to work with him, and at the time I did NOT know that, she lied to me about knowing how to work with OTTBS, and I found out later she dislikes them and doesn’t actually work with them, she did gave him so many mixed signals, which confused him and frustrated him, we’re now starting over his training trying to fix that. _*I am NOT making excuses, it may sound like I am, but I have brought him a long ways health wise, so he was out of work, trying to get him healthy physically. It has taken months and months to understand him. *_
sure, I could have screwed up somewhere along in the training and he could have gotten some behavioral issues, I’m not putting this all on everyone else, but so much of the issue has either been his health, tack, or trying to find the correct trainer.

Also I was using “thousands” as a figure of speech.


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

I am not on here to start arguments or blame anyone else about my horses training, my trainer and I are trying our best.
I think it would be best if I stopped posting threads about his training, because it seems to stir up the controversy


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I've read all your responses, reread the entire thread several times...
Don't stop posting but realize that posting is also going to raise questions by people who have trained, do train and do turn-out a nice riding partner....
Recognize like you already should because you say it doesn't make it so either or practical fact....the internet is a wonderful tool but can also be a fools way of delivering stories that can hurt others...be careful.
Be a bit cynical is how it is often safest on the www.

So....
His attitude to me, not confusing, it called boredom.... ????
He's bored and potentially uncomfortable because I'll bet you anything he is also unbalanced as most OTTB are and it hurts to be made to move in a constant arc at speed on yet immature joints and soft tissue. 
If he has potential stifle issues..._why are you lunging him and stressing that part of his anatomy? _ I don't understand.

I was told many years ago by a reining horse trainer any horse has only so many times to do any job put to them before they are worn out and done.... 
Be that jumping, reining, lunging or any other challenge we face our animal with...there is just so many times that part of the anatomy can be faced or over-faced using and its done...kaput.
You must keep that in mind when working with a animal who although young is already on a 2nd career, he has already used and put out a tremendous amount of his body at a young, tender age.

While he is in bare basic mode training with this new trainer_ *coming to you *_*daily,* sorry but the horse has been worked and taught and the best thing for you to do is leave him alone cause someone is confusing the animal while he learns elementary basics..._j__mo._
He needs consistency and that does _not_ come from many hands, _but from one_ who does consistent the horse can follow and learn from the repetition done. 
Till it is concrete in his repertoire and understanding...._*one rider, one handler*_ astride or on the ground giving him lessons and the less you interact even on the ground the better. 
New trainer to you also means you don't know there way of doing yet either if honest.
If his base of training is lacking there is no going forward till you go back and fill in the numerous holes made now needed to fix.

That is not to be nasty, but truthful and accurate...your new trainer has her hands full of a very confused horse right now...
If you were a boarder in a barn I managed, you would be asked to stand-down for a few weeks till the horse is sorted out. Come, visit him but do nothing with him "training" but give attention to him and not demand anything of the animal but to be in their vicinity.
That's hard, but is honestly probably the best for the horse right now.... let your trainer train and you step back and don't touch while she works what you hope is miracles.

I hope you do keep doing updates cause suddenly you should see a pattern emerging positive or if negative...can stop it and move to another training resource for a better outcome.
🐴.... _jmo._


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

I only have one thing to say since I don’t want taken to the woodshed over this thread:

The two photos you posted in the new Friday night conversation are photos of a very stressed/uncomfortable horse. His ears may be up, but he is not happy.

His stress could be mental/physical or both but he is not happy ——-


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

walkinthewalk said:


> I only have one thing to say since I don’t want taken to the woodshed over this thread:
> 
> The two photos you posted in the new Friday night conversation are photos of a very stressed/uncomfortable horse. His ears may be up, but he is not happy.
> 
> His stress could be mental/physical or both but he is not happy ——-


My trainer took the pictures of him, and she was shaking some grass to get his ears up.
Not sure why he wouldn’t be happy..but there were two other people (including the trainer) there, he was probably overwhelmed. 
the two other people left afterwards, he seemed happy and actually did awesome that day.


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

horselovinguy said:


> I've read all your responses, reread the entire thread several times...
> Don't stop posting but realize that posting is also going to raise questions by people who have trained, do train and do turn-out a nice riding partner....
> Recognize like you already should because you say it doesn't make it so either or practical fact....the internet is a wonderful tool but can also be a fools way of delivering stories that can hurt others...be careful.
> Be a bit cynical is how it is often safest on the www.
> ...


Yes he is bored..so keeping his mind busy is something we’re trying to do. and we’re thinking his stifle is because of lack of muscle, it’s been getting a lot better, but the vet is still gonna look at it next week. i watch him carefully to make sure he doesn’t get worn out too fast, and now she knows he gets upset when he gets worn out..
I’ll keep updating y’all then.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

baysfordays said:


> Yes he is bored..so keeping his mind busy is something we’re trying to do. and we’re thinking his stifle is because of lack of muscle, it’s been getting a lot better, but the vet is still gonna look at it next week. i watch him carefully to make sure he doesn’t get worn out too fast, and now she knows he gets upset when he gets worn out..
> I’ll keep updating y’all then.


^^^^Further to my comment the horse looks stressed and unhappy —————


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

My trainer is supposed to come today so
im thinking about discussing some stuff with her.
My mom had come and watched the training sessions yesterday, she pointed out that he is much more comfortable with me, than with her.
Probably because he has more of a emotional respect or bond with me, but, I don’t have near the knowledge or experience to train him with just my trainer at the sidelines..I feel like she too has to work with him..

also- with y’all saying he’s unhappy..how?
he has pasture 24/7, lots of hay, etc. and is spoiled (probably the issue lol) I try my best to keep his stress down..
But, maybe some of his stress is because there’s jets that fly over our house because a base is kinda close..they’re so loud!! they’re so loud that if I have anyone over or if I’m with family, we literally can’t hear each other 😅
Now that I think of it, the days he was bad, that night the jets were flying. 🤔
Idk just trying to think of things that would cause him to be “unhappy” and uncomfortable.😐

but, other then that, there shouldn’t be anything making him unhappy.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I just had to see those photos in question. I just see a horse. Not a happy or unhappy horse. The eye is not soft, but the jaw is not tight either. It's a nuetral expression , if you ask me ( and of course, you didn't )

Don't assume that the horse will stay aggressive if he has been a bit aggressive or bad tempered lately. I'm not saying you should ignore it, but I also wouldn't assume that he's doomed, either.

I wish I could watch how your trainer is working with him. I mean one must deal with aggression, but there are things , ways, that people 'push' on horses that build defensiveness and aggression in some. Most horses just suck it up , but some don't. either way, that sort of nagging push on the horse teaches them to resist, either in body or in a closed mental state. for example, constantly swinging the lunge whip at them to 'keep' them going. Or, forcefully making them depart or turn as fast as possible. It can help wake up a dull horse, in a way, but a sensitive horse will find that stressful and will become resentful, often.


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

tinyliny said:


> I just had to see those photos in question. I just see a horse. Not a happy or unhappy horse. The eye is not soft, but the jaw is not tight either. It's a nuetral expression , if you ask me ( and of course, you didn't )
> 
> Don't assume that the horse will stay aggressive if he has been a bit aggressive or bad tempered lately. I'm not saying you should ignore it, but I also wouldn't assume that he's doomed, either.
> 
> I wish I could watch how your trainer is working with him. I mean one must deal with aggression, but there are things , ways, that people 'push' on horses that build defensiveness and aggression in some. Most horses just suck it up , but some don't. either way, that sort of nagging push on the horse teaches them to resist, either in body or in a closed mental state. for example, constantly swinging the lunge whip at them to 'keep' them going. Or, forcefully making them depart or turn as fast as possible. It can help wake up a dull horse, in a way, but a sensitive horse will find that stressful and will become resentful, often.


Thank you.
Actually the one thing I don’t like is her always swinging the lunge whip at him, even if he’s going the speed she wants..which was something I was gonna ask her about today!


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Sorry - I see a horse with a tense face but all of his issues that are being discussed on these threads couldn’t possibly have anything to do with him being stressed or unhappy - He is no doubt in a tip-top frame of mind because his ears are up———-


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I want to follow along with your journal. I don’t have any preconceived notions, because I only read the Friday thread and nothing else.

I don’t love that she said break his spirit, but out of context that is a hard thing to understand the meaning of. I’ve always heard it as a bad thing, but it’s not something said in my neck of the woods.

There are tricks I know of that would be considered on those lines to me, and I don’t like them, but I doubt that’s what she meant. We’ve always looked at them as chicken doo doo. Like starving them out, or taking their shoes off and trimming them super short so they are tender. It’s a way to get around something and make it kind of have to go along. They have no will to fight, so I would think of that as breaking their spirit.

If she just means beating on him while he’s coming after her, that’s what I would do if a horse came after me. That’s an obvious no no and needs shut down right now.

I wonder though if it is her. You said her last horse did the same thing. I don’t think aggressive horses are common, and have only dealt with one in my whole life. So, for her to have two… you also mention her continuing the pressure while the horse is doing what she asked. If he doesn’t find the right answer, then maybe she is causing him to return to her with aggression. I think learning to release pressure when the horse is doing what someone wants is how they learn. Keeping pressure on is a mistake for they are being told they are still not at the correct answer. Does that make sense?

Of course not seeing any of it makes it really hard to say. She could be doing everything right for all we know. She does sound dedicated and it sounds like you like her, so I will start out assuming the best.

I hope you are successful with the horse!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

walkinthewalk said:


> Sorry - I see a horse with a tense face but all of his issues that are being discussed on these threads couldn’t possibly have anything to do with him being stressed or unhappy - He is no doubt in a tip-top frame of mind because his ears are up———-


it's very hard to look at a photo wherein you know something of the back story and NOT be influenced in how you percieve it. I guess the true test would be to post that photo where the viewers had not had any priviliedge info on the horse's backgground issues, and see what they SEE about him.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

tinyliny said:


> I guess the true test would be to post that photo where the viewers had not had any priviliedge info on the horse's backgground issues, and see what they SEE about him.


That is what happened. I was reading the Friday night thread, enjoying all the photos. My knee jerk reaction was the horse looks stressed, even though his ears are up. Anybody with a squeaky or waving Something behind the photographer could have got his ears up.

This thread only caught my eye four or so hours ago. I saw the fotos yesterday and they were the only reason I opened this thread.

His face just looks tense to me. It wouldn’t surprise me if he is dealing with ulcers, regardless of how calm an environment he might be living in.


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

Knave said:


> I want to follow along with your journal. I don’t have any preconceived notions, because I only read the Friday thread and nothing else.
> 
> I don’t love that she said break his spirit, but out of context that is a hard thing to understand the meaning of. I’ve always heard it as a bad thing, but it’s not something said in my neck of the woods.
> 
> ...


Thank you. She just left, and we had a great training day, she let me work with him, didn’t get involved at all, he did not charge, buck, or rear once, he was perfect!!
so we know now that he just doesn’t respect her/like her.
I’m pretty sure she meant break his spirit as hitting him when he charges at her, but she didn’t bring up anything about breaking his spirit once we figured out he just has no respect for her.
makes sense!


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

walkinthewalk said:


> That is what happened. I was reading the Friday night thread, enjoying all the photos. My knee jerk reaction was the horse looks stressed, even though his ears are up. Anybody with a squeaky or waving Something behind the photographer could have got his ears up.
> 
> This thread only caught my eye four or so hours ago. I saw the fotos yesterday and they were the only reason I opened this thread.
> 
> His face just looks tense to me. It wouldn’t surprise me if he is dealing with ulcers, regardless of how calm an environment he might be living in.


He came with ulcers, he’s on an ulcer supplant that REALLY helped him. There were 2 other people waving or making clicking sounds trying to get his attention and his ears up..


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## Michael972 (5 mo ago)

Knave said:


> I want to follow along with your journal. I don’t have any preconceived notions, because I only read the Friday thread and nothing else.
> 
> I don’t love that she said break his spirit, but out of context that is a hard thing to understand the meaning of. I’ve always heard it as a bad thing, but it’s not something said in my neck of the woods.
> 
> ...


So as I have zero training experience with a horse, do you think she should have the trainer guide her and let her do the training with less pressure? Just curious as to how you would suggest going forward. In my mind if the trainer is just pressure all the time and the horse doesnt know if it is doing what is being asked than maybe she could take over doing what the trainer tells her to do but with less (release the pressure when the horse is doing what she wants). Like I said I have never trained a horse but could that be a resolution?


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

@Michael972 I don’t necessarily think so sadly. When one asks a trainer to help them, they then are stuck following the trainers advice. It would work to say, have a lesson once a week and then take over, but every week the work done would be kind of reversed, if that makes any sense.

If I were to train someone’s horse, I would expect them to follow my direction, for if they believed they knew better than I did, I wouldn’t think they should hire me. Also, my plan works my way, and if I were to try and alter it, then it wouldn’t be my way and the horse and I would likely be confused.

I have worked someone through starting a couple of horses, but I did try and teach that person. It was very difficult, because you have two individuals you are trying to work with, and when the horse does something unexpected, the human has to respond in a way that needs taught to them. I found it difficult in any case.

If it were my horse and I hired a trainer, I would watch to see how the horse responded. I may be a bit too particular, so if I saw something that didn’t make sense I would then have a difficult time of firing my trainer. Lol.

This leaves someone in a conundrum. Say yourself, who says you do not have experience. How then would you judge the trainer’s actions and the horse’s response? I find it a difficult situation, and I have no answer. Some things we can feel are inherently wrong I guess, but without a deep knowledge it would be hard to decide.

So, I think someone without that knowledge would have to look at the trainer’s end results. What horses did they make? Now, luck happens on anyone, and anyone can buy a good horse, but look at several horses. Then I guess you may be stuck trusting the trainer, unless you saw something that just stuck your gut as wrong.

This trainer, for example, may be not giving the correct release. It is too hard to expect someone inexperienced to know that. Yet, @baysfordays seems to have caught a very important piece of information. She sees that the trainer continues to apply pressure when the horse is correct. If that were to continue, and I were her, I would have to walk away and find someone better.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

baysfordays said:


> Thank you. She just left, and we had a great training day, she let me work with him, didn’t get involved at all, h*e did not charge, buck, or rear once, he was perfect!!
> so we know now that he just doesn’t respect her/like her.*
> I’m pretty sure she meant break his spirit as hitting him when he charges at her, but she didn’t bring up anything about breaking his spirit once we figured out he just has no respect for her.
> makes sense!


I might not agree with that assessment. It might be that the reason he did not get snippy or agressive is that you were not asking as much from him as the trainer had been. Meaning, you were not requiring him to leave 'HIS" program to do yours. A lot of times a horse will go through the motions and appear to be doing as you ask, but as soon as you ask for more than he has in mind, or something different, you may see a different horse. And you may say, "well, he's good with me". But, if he cannot deal with things when they are outside of his comfort zone, when he inevitably IS faced with something that isn't on HIS program, he will react hugely.


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

tinyliny said:


> I might not agree with that assessment. It might be that the reason he did not get snippy or agressive is that you were not asking as much from him as the trainer had been. Meaning, you were not requiring him to leave 'HIS" program to do yours. A lot of times a horse will go through the motions and appear to be doing as you ask, but as soon as you ask for more than he has in mind, or something different, you may see a different horse. And you may say, "well, he's good with me". But, if he cannot deal with things when they are outside of his comfort zone, when he inevitably IS faced with something that isn't on HIS program, he will react hugely.


My ‘program’ is similar to hers, she does a lot of free lunging and then was going to teach him line lunging, but went back to basics like backing, and not walking in front of you..
I did free lunging, (yes I still work on him not walking infront of me) so I worked him the same, but, I challenged him a bit more and free jumped him, (plus she wanted to see his scopeit keeps his mind “busy” I guess, always thinking, and it actually helps him. Another problem is because he raced way to long, so he has the mentality of a 4yr, so right now, we actually have to look at him as a 4yr.
(yes I know y’all are gonna bring up his stifle..it’s getting better so thats why I’m jumping him)
I might post a video later of him jumping.

So I see where you’re coming from and kinda agree with you.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

How old is the horse bays and when did he retire? 
What age was he retired and do you know why he retired? Truthfully were told why he retired?
🐴...


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I scrolled through the responses but may have missed some. I'm going to start by slipping in a quick Moderator note, which is for all involved to remember the conscientious etiquette policy when posting in this thread. Next, I'm going to ask that you either go ahead and post the pictures everyone is referring to in this thread or we stop referring to them.

Next, I am reading you assuming this is all behavioral with no pain or other health issues involved but from your first post alone, without seeing pictures, Im guessing you have some pain and comfort issues mixed in. You can't take a "chunky" out of shape horse and then put him into training six days a week. That's not fair. You wouldn't go from sitting on the couch to running distance six days a week. Also, the fact that he will free lunge but is difficult on the lunge line makes me think there is a pain issue. 

I think you really should take just a minute to assume there is a health problem. Take a minute to look for it. And I would back off on the training if it were my horse. I'd get him in shape before putting him to that much work. That's just my opinion.


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## Michael972 (5 mo ago)

Knave said:


> @Michael972 I don’t necessarily think so sadly. When one asks a trainer to help them, they then are stuck following the trainers advice. It would work to say, have a lesson once a week and then take over, but every week the work done would be kind of reversed, if that makes any sense.
> 
> If I were to train someone’s horse, I would expect them to follow my direction, for if they believed they knew better than I did, I wouldn’t think they should hire me. Also, my plan works my way, and if I were to try and alter it, then it wouldn’t be my way and the horse and I would likely be confused.
> 
> ...


That makes total sense. I never thought about the fact that the trainer would be working with two individuals. That could be difficult and confusing to the horse. I also never thought about someone like me that would see something, with no experience and think it is wrong. I have nothing to make that assumption. Thanks a lot!!!


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

farmpony84 said:


> I scrolled through the responses but may have missed some. I'm going to start by slipping in a quick Moderator note, which is for all involved to remember the conscientious etiquette policy when posting in this thread. Next, I'm going to ask that you either go ahead and post the pictures everyone is referring to in this thread or we stop referring to them.
> 
> Next, I am reading you assuming this is all behavioral with no pain or other health issues involved but from your first post alone, without seeing pictures, Im guessing you have some pain and comfort issues mixed in. You can't take a "chunky" out of shape horse and then put him into training six days a week. That's not fair. You wouldn't go from sitting on the couch to running distance six days a week. Also, the fact that he will free lunge but is difficult on the lunge line makes me think there is a pain issue.
> 
> I think you really should take just a minute to assume there is a health problem. Take a minute to look for it. And I would back off on the training if it were my horse. I'd get him in shape before putting him to that much work. That's just my opinion.


He’s not out of shape, he has a thicker build, I was working him about 4-5 days a week, and then she came..I was lunging him before she came. I can post the pictures, but I think the convo about it had ended.


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

horselovinguy said:


> How old is the horse bays and when did he retire?
> What age was he retired and do you know why he retired? Truthfully were told why he retired?
> 🐴...


He just turned 8. He retired about 3 months before turning 7, so he was 6. He retired because he wasn’t winning, looking at his profile, he was winning up till late 2020, (I believe his last race was in November 2020) and he gradually stopped winning.. I was told by the owners that he just got to slow, and wasnt winning any money anymore, basically he had no more “go” I believed it, but I guess it couldn’t be true..? We did a PPE before we bought him and the vet cleared him. (Hope this makes sense)


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

baysfordays said:


> He’s not out of shape, he has a thicker build, I was working him about 4-5 days a week, and then she came..I was lunging him before she came. I can post the pictures, but I think the convo about it had ended.


You are confusing me.



baysfordays said:


> She was shocked about how “chunky” he was, she said in all her years of training tbs, she hasn’t seen one so “chunky” (Hes gotten rather plump off of work..)
> So he must have some good bloodlines and some old thoroughbred in him (which made me so happy because I love plump thoroughbreds and so glad my guy has gotten to this point)


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Here are the pictures everyone is asking about from that other thread.

It is said Thoroughbreds peak at 4.5 years of age for their best function and achievements made... I don't know...
Unless you specified in your PPE what you were searching for your horse got a wellness check up of eyes, heart, lungs and gut functioning well at that moment in time. The horse was standing on 4 feet with even pressure appearing to them.
If you had asked if the vet saw anything that could cause a issue on this horse you have aspirations of making a jumping animal you may well have got a different exam and report back....if you don't ask, they don't look for or tell.
🐴...


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

farmpony84 said:


> You are confusing me.


Oops!!!


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

horselovinguy said:


> View attachment 1134756
> 
> View attachment 1134757
> 
> ...


Once I bought him, I had my vet do a whole check, I asked him a lot of questions and if he could jump, he checked is legs, etc, he said his legs were fine for jumping.
Oh and the owners (that got him straight off the track) did a full vet check, so he’s had 3 full vet checks and no issues…


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

farmpony84 said:


> You are confusing me.


I meant out of shape as in out of riding shape..I guess being lunged everyday is still “in shape” sorry!!


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

What an impressive career! We’ve taken a horse off the tracks during a race, because the owner was unhappy with the performance and knew my father-in-law, meaning husband and I were sent home with her to ride her and decide if she was going to work or not. She was young though, three maybe. Ugliest horse you ever saw, but super kind hearted which made her endearing.

For a horse to make it that long racing is very impressive. He must have been quite the horse!

On the outside, with only a small amount of experience with ottbs, I seem to hear they come with a lot of health issues. I don’t know if it’s true or not. People often say reiners and cutters do, and that’s not always true by any means. It can be true, and I think it’s a mix of breeding for talent and not taking conformation into account at all, combined with a strenuous youth.

Anyways, the fact you had him vetted and he passed all of that, and you are treating him for ulcers, tends to make me assume he is healthy. Of course, vets can be wrong just like anyone else.

As far as just being naturally chunky goes, we’re all built differently. My filly is a total chub, and she’s getting worked decently hard. Can I get any of that weight off? Nope. It blows my mind, but I guess that’s how she’s made to look.


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

Knave said:


> What an impressive career! We’ve taken a horse off the tracks during a race, because the owner was unhappy with the performance and knew my father-in-law, meaning husband and I were sent home with her to ride her and decide if she was going to work or not. She was young though, three maybe. Ugliest horse you ever saw, but super kind hearted which made her endearing.
> 
> For a horse to make it that long racing is very impressive. He must have been quite the horse!
> 
> ...


That’s cool! Sometimes people who race horses shock me, the fact that some just care all about the money 

But yes..I guess some do come with health issues, that’s what I always hear anyway  
I was surprised he raced so long with no issues. 

thanks


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

baysfordays said:


> Once I bought him, I had my vet do a whole check, I asked him a lot of questions and if he could jump, he checked is legs, etc, he said his legs were fine for jumping.


Most any horse "can jump"....
But not all horses will excel in it, are built to take that kind of pounding on their physical anatomy and....this is a 2nd career for this horse and he has had a lot of wear and tear to his body from racing.
Accumulation over time a issue can and often come to be, now the secret is how to do what it is you want without making his issue worse...
My first step would be a lameness exam by a qualified lameness vet specialist, not just a vet by diploma.... There is a large difference in quality of a exam done and what is seen and advice given to continue on your plan of making a jumper or hunter horse....
If the horse though is already showing you a issue...proceed with great caution cause once you really hurt the stifle it is never the same and can be career ending before it even gets started....
Now apply and do some research unbiased on your own and see what experts say over decades of time....we can't feed you resources to read when you research, you find and read the thousands of options just make sure they have good credentials accompanying where they came from and not some blog or Facebook opinion page cause no way do you know who knows what they are talking about or a bunch of fluff want to spout nonsense....

@Knave... just like any horse breed people make generalities and its wrong as each animal is a individual.
I've had several Thoroughbreds who had stellar health, great feet, leg and minds...and then ones that made me near a pauper and full of issues.
Thoroughbreds as a rule are often a horse not made to carry a lot of extra weight, no horse should as you know cause it is bad for the horses health same as humans. They are what they are and comes with the genes.
The age at retirement, yes he was older and if he was a really good racer he probably would of found himself in the breeding shed instead of still running. Some horses just love to run and continue to run to near 10 and are sound...
_Any idea how old he was when gelded bays? _ That might tell you some hidden details...
Then he wasn't fast enough and didn't produce enough good results on the track was why he was retired....there is a lot of space between those comments were shared for interpretation by those who took horses off the track who didn't make it for various reasons...you can read that information very differently.
Could he be absolutely sound and no issue when he was retired...maybe.
Could he have been having issues that now are showing again with the stresses of added work that is known to stress certain body parts.... ... sadly very likely or the body is telling enough. Time to listen is my thought.
🐴...


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

horselovinguy said:


> Most any horse "can jump"....
> But not all horses will excel in it, are built to take that kind of pounding on their physical anatomy and....this is a 2nd career for this horse and he has had a lot of wear and tear to his body from racing.
> Accumulation over time a issue can and often come to be, now the secret is how to do what it is you want without making his issue worse...
> My first step would be a lameness exam by a qualified lameness vet specialist, not just a vet by diploma.... There is a large difference in quality of a exam done and what is seen and advice given to continue on your plan of making a jumper or hunter horse....
> ...


No clue when he was gelded, I wish I knew.  
When the vet comes out I’m going to ask him just do an overall check, and I’ll tell y’all how that goes. We think he did come with some issues, he would come down badly lame if he threw a shoe when I first got him, after 6 months, his hooves are _finally healthy!!_ and then I noticed his stifle, which improved once I worked him more, and doing some exercises that will help his stifle. but I’m still concerned about it..if it is arthritis related I might do yearly shots for him or whatever the vet suggests  ! 
He’s not overweight though, he’s just thick. 
The owners only had about 3 rides under saddle with him, so he wasn’t worked hard so maybe no issues could’ve popped up then.


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## Txshecat0423 (May 27, 2020)

I just wanted to add re: PPEs. I purchased a 7 yo mare to be a performance horse. Her previous owner mostly led her kids around on her and she wasn’t worked regularly. I had a PPE performed including x-rays of hooves and spine. She passed so I purchased her. However once I put her into work, it was discovered she had a twisted pelvis, causing her to be in pain and she bucked at every gait except a walk. I went ahead and did the injections suggested by the vet with no good results. She was not going to make a performance horse so I ended up selling her with full disclosure of her limitations. That prospective owner also had a PPE performed before he purchased her as he was specifically interested in breeding possibilities. Vet cleared her and off she went to her new home.

All that to say that even if a horse passes a PPE, some issues will not be apparent until the horse is put into work.

I wish you and your trainer the best of luck with your boy! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

Txshecat0423 said:


> I just wanted to add re: PPEs. I purchased a 7 yo mare to be a performance horse. Her previous owner mostly led her kids around on her and she wasn’t worked regularly. I had a PPE performed including x-rays of hooves and spine. She passed so I purchased her. However once I put her into work, it was discovered she had a twisted pelvis, causing her to be in pain and she bucked at every gait except a walk. I went ahead and did the injections suggested by the vet with no good results. She was not going to make a performance horse so I ended up selling her with full disclosure of her limitations. That prospective owner also had a PPE performed before he purchased her as he was specifically interested in breeding possibilities. Vet cleared her and off she went to her new home.
> 
> All that to say that even if a horse passes a PPE, some issues will not be apparent until the horse is put into work.
> 
> ...


Thank you!
poor girl! That sounds painful 😨
Thankfully my guy doesnt buck at every gait 😅


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## My Salty Pony (Jan 1, 2022)

I know its a little late to be posting on this thread, but been thinking about this horse while working outside, and to me hes just not cut out for this type of discipline that the OP whats him for. And when a trainer says they need to break his "Spirit" just a little bit, I'm like WHAT!!!!!! I have never ever in my life heard of such a thing to come out of a trainers mouth. And how do you break a horses Spirit in just a little way?!!! Sounds like this horse just needs to be left alone and just let him be a horse, when they get aggressive like what the op is saying its time for him to be doing something different as in just being rode down the trail for awhile before he hurts someone or himself.. Get him out of that round pen period..


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

My Salty Pony said:


> I know its a little late to be posting on this thread, but been thinking about this horse while working outside, and to me hes just not cut out for this type of discipline that the OP whats him for. And when a trainer says they need to break his "Spirit" just a little bit, I'm like WHAT!!!!!! I have never ever in my life heard of such a thing to come out of a trainers mouth. And how do you break a horses Spirit in just a little way?!!! Sounds like this horse just needs to be left alone and just let him be a horse, when they get aggressive like what the op is saying its time for him to be doing something different as in just being rode down the trail for awhile before he hurts someone or himself.. Get him out of that round pen period..


Sorry to ask- but cut out for what discipline? Jumping? Riding in general? Lunging?

we took another approach, actually he’s been doing good. We dropped the line lunging- he just seemed too confused. I still free lunge him/free jump him on the days my trainers not coming, his stifle is so much better it’s amazing. 
after dropping the line lunging, and then now just some free lunging (_w/t/c, but he hasn’t bucked or reared while free lunging so that’s a big improvement honestly I just think he needed to respect us a bit more, because his attitude has changed and he’s calmer now when lunging, and listens to all voice commands and not being aggressive_)
She’s dropped the “breaking his spirit” thing 

shes riding him now, but doing baby steps and being gentle..he understands riding work more easily then lunging work, he’s nice and calm and will just plop along, he hasn’t fussed once, & this is not even lunging before riding. And we’re using a hackamore which he’s way more comfy with!
I’m going to get his teeth floated and then we’re gonna play around with different bits to find the most comfiest one.


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## My Salty Pony (Jan 1, 2022)

I was thinking you already had him started,. So hes just in training, what type of training is he in? What is the trainer doing in riding wise? The more I read about this horse I really feel sorry for him, he just sounds like a confused horse thats been given so many mixed signals and just trying to cope the best he can and hes gotten really defensive. I would stop what ever you are doing to him and give him a break for a few months and see how his mind is after having a break. I think with all the training being intense as you said is making his mind a bit fragile so just be carefull as he could really blow up and someone could get hurt. In my opinion only one person should be working with him so he can focus on that one person for now.


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

My Salty Pony said:


> I was thinking you already had him started,. So hes just in training, what type of training is he in? What is the trainer doing in riding wise? The more I read about this horse I really feel sorry for him, he just sounds like a confused horse thats been given so many mixed signals and just trying to cope the best he can and hes gotten really defensive. I would stop what ever you are doing to him and give him a break for a few months and see how his mind is after having a break. I think with all the training being intense as you said is making his mind a bit fragile so just be carefull as he could really blow up and someone could get hurt. In my opinion only one person should be working with him so he can focus on that one person for now.


Well the end goal is for him to be a hunter jumper, so h/j training, if that’s what you meant. 
the trainer is only doing w/t, serpentines, circles, transitions, etc.
it’s kinda hard for only one person the work him, because she’s not coming everyday, only about 3x a week, him being a thoroughbred, he needs to be worked the other 4-5 days to get his energy out and to keep his muscle, etc.
Imagine if I didn’t work him the other days and she would have gotten on him..that would not have been good.
He’s needs the exercise, he’s a horse with lots of energy.
Letting him sit would be a waste, he’s very muscled up, and his stifle is getting better with work..he likes working but had no respect for people- yes he’s “confused” but that’s why we’re doing riding work, something he “understands” better.. lots of thoroughbreds do terrible at ground work and lunging, and for my guy, it was almost like a sensory overload..he couldn’t understand it. Plus another thing- I need to up his grain ration because of the amount he’s getting right now, is not enough for him to keep weight up/energy to do consistent work like we’re doing, so I’m upping that, part of his aggressiveness was when he got tired, he didn’t want to go, he didn’t want to do anything so he felt like he had to scare us, once he learned he couldn’t scare you, he’s back to his old gentle self, but when I bought him he had a respect issue where he would either rear at you or do something, and i didn’t correct it because I thought it was something else, so there for learned to try to get out of situations or anything he didn’t want to do, by rearing. And, he also did that on the track- he didnt want to run..then he’d rear, they had to pull him from multiple races because he wouldn’t go in the start, he’d just freak.
And no, hes not in pain, I’ve gotten so many vet checks on him, yes he has ulcers, he’s on a supplement for it.


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

My Salty Pony said:


> I was thinking you already had him started,. So hes just in training, what type of training is he in? What is the trainer doing in riding wise? The more I read about this horse I really feel sorry for him, he just sounds like a confused horse thats been given so many mixed signals and just trying to cope the best he can and hes gotten really defensive. I would stop what ever you are doing to him and give him a break for a few months and see how his mind is after having a break. I think with all the training being intense as you said is making his mind a bit fragile so just be carefull as he could really blow up and someone could get hurt. In my opinion only one person should be working with him so he can focus on that one person for now.


Also, he had about a 6 month break last year after I bought him, fixed some of his hoof issues, health issues, weight etc. it did him good because we found out a lot about him and some of his health issues at the time. he only had about a 3-4 week let down before I bought him, and it wasnt enough time.
and, he is a horse that craves attention- and adventure, so i switch up his “work” everyday, one day I’ll do desensitizing, one day jumping, one day walking by hand on a trail, lunging, etc, for him he needs something different each day, even if I decide to lunge him every day, I’ll do different ground poles or jumps each day, I won’t do the same thing.


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

A small little update, it’s not much but it’s something.

things have been going well, it’s been pretty steady and we haven’t run into any road blocks.

here’s a few little small celebrations:
• he learned to stand perfectly in cross ties!
• he’s no longer afraid of hoses/water by/on his face. 
• his hooves! They’re finally healthy!!
• his weight.
• his stifle

I know this is small, and to most, it’s nothing, but for me and him it’s big.
1. He came to me afraid of being in cross ties, and he would go backwards as fast as possible and break them, now it’s like nothing for him and he’ll stand there like a rock.

2. Water was a big thing for him, he hated the hose, and he hated water on his face.
when I bought him his face was covered in rain rot so it was a daily struggle to wash it/clean it.
This evening when I was rinsing him off he gently took the hose and was drinking water, lol!
As I held the hose still he would either put his head under it or just start playing with it or trying to drink it. I feel like some of his personality is coming out, especially because he’s mentally a 4yr, maybe he’s 
“growing” mentally too.

3. The farrier came yesterday and said his hooves are amazing, they’re finally down to the size they were before he got sick. It’s been officially a year and his hooves are finally healthy! 
I am so so so happy about this, because it was alott of work to get his hooves healthy.

4. his weight! I had soo many threads about this.
he’s finally muscled up and has a good weight, though is loosing some because he’s being worked everyday, so I see some of his ribs 
so I have to up it.
(should I up his fats or proteins..opinions??)

5. his sticky stifle, we worried it was a arthritis, but it’s a muscle thing.
The more he’s being worked, the more it’s getting better, you can’t even tell now. it was definitely a lack of muscle.

anyway, I know this isn’t much but it’s the little things!!







I don’t think y’all have ever seen a pic of him jumping!


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

New little update!!

he’s doing _soo good_ with riding work.
my trainer has been riding him all the time now and he’s responding great.
She was riding in the bitless but switched over to the bit to kinda see what’s up with that, she said he needs a positive experience with a bit, instead of negative, and sure enough, second time riding with _positive experiences_ with the bit and he acted like the bit didn’t even bother him at all and he didn’t fuss at all which is a huge step.

shes only doing walk/trot for now, asking for a tad bit more of contact each time she rides, and he’s starting to accept the contact and the bit and he’s starting to move nicely.

she let me get on him a few times and just walk so he knows with me on his back, it’s positive and not negative.

today I got to trot him for the first time since spring of 2021 which was super exciting, his trot is big and floaty and reminds me of a warmblood trot. he’s definitely improved big time because last time I trotted him he was choppy.
He’s also improving with bending, which is great!

I was not planning on riding him today, so I was in my jeans and cowgirl boots and my boots pinched like crazy when riding, ouch 😣
And of course I looked like a total sack of potatoes riding, embarrassing.😂
My poor training was probably like _oh geez she’s gonna need a lot of work_ 
🤣

I’m going to take up riding lessons again, it’s been forever and definitely need some tuning up!


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

Another little update!

from Friday to this morning it rained,_a ton_
so I wasn’t able to work my guy at all which was disappointing, though my trainer came today and worked with him though it was muddy in some parts.

because it was kinda muddy, she stuck to only a lot of walking, a few laps of trotting.
She worked on lots of bending, and flexing, some frame work.
It’s really hard for him, but each ride I feel like he’s improving more.
He gets a bit agitated when she asks him to be on the bit, when he finally did he started rounding, etc, and he looked soo much better and not like a giraffe, then went back to ‘fighting’.
my trainer explained it as he doesn’t understand, but when he’s on the bit he’s like “oh I kinda like this” and then he’s like “wait do I like this?” And goes back to ‘fighting’.
she held the rains very loose at one point, and he was just ‘fighting’ with himself, there was no pressure, and then he was like “oh” and stopped fighting. 
But by the end of the ride he was learning to be on the bit and accept the contact, but my trainer said it’s going to take awhile for him.

another good thing is that he’s learned he can be slow, there’s no pressure on going fast, and he doesn’t need to be in a rush, which is exciting, hes _really_ slowed down in a positive way.

we’re going to experiment with bits, supposedly the rubber D ring I’m using now, can “block him” from bending, or it can be a bit more difficult for him, or something in those words, she was wondering about trying an O ring with him (I hate O rings, I prefer D rings but it’s whatever is better for him.)
I was hoping to do hunters with him, but she said keep an open mind, because he’s athletic, he might be better for show jumping rather then hunters, but we won’t tell until he can be more round and flex more and be a bit farther down the line.


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

We had an awesome training day today!

my guy has come so far.
I was able to ride him today, I did walk & trot, and trot poles, and practiced on bending into every corner, and some bending around other objects like the mounting block.
His Demeanor has changed, he’s been a lot calmer!
He likes being ridden more then he likes ground work.
my trainer & I are going to test out some different bits tomorrow because he’s rooting when we ask for him to be on the bit/bend, it’s either the bit, his last trainer was heavy on the hands, etc.
anyway, it’s all going well and I’m super happy about it!


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

I noticed that I should probably update my journal more than i am, and share the great days ive been having with my guy!! 

I got the chance to ride him today and yesterday, light work, W/T and trot poles, bending, etc.
It’s funny how I took so long getting him in the mindset of “you don’t have to go fast” to now, he’s a kick ride! It’s so funny how he’s completely switched to this totally different horse I didn’t know he could be. 
I had to keep my leg on him the whole ride, he just plopped along, not in a bad way, I’m happy to have a slow horse, but this is so slow that I joke that I’m working harder then he is! 
it was around 45° but I felt like it was 65° from working so hard to keep him going. 
which is good, theres a bigger chance he’ll be a good hunter from his slow pace.. at first my trainer thought he’d be a better show jumper, from his athleticism and fast pace, now she’s like “Nevermind about that”
This horse is full of surprises, and I tried to tell her that.. oh well. 
I love having good experiences with him, it’s better bonding time! it’s gotten to the point I could probably ride him with no hands and he couldn’t tell the difference, actually he’ll try to be on the bit more with me not even touching the reins or with any contact, that’s a tad annoying.

I’m using bungees on him now and hes accepting them so good! I was expecting him to refuse them or fight with them, but he doesn’t mind, but you can really tell when he tucks his head and is on the bit, you can feel his weak stifle and hind end, but it’s improving, especially with more pole work I feel like he’ll strengthen right up. 

I reminded him the whole ride “if you’re good, you get a cookie” honestly I think it worked, the moment I untacked him, and was heading back with a cookie, he was whinnying.. how does he know? I rarely give him cookies unless he’s really good. 
I guess I need to try it more often..or he’s just too smart.😆

I’m going to post a few pictures too.


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

the quality of the picture is horrible, and it looks goofy because I had to blur out my trainer.
Also ignore my ugly pool in the background, I have to get rid of it, lol!

anyway, he’s getting the hang of things! 


this is something I forgot to add in what I said a few minutes ago, but we’ve switched him to a simple loose ring snaffle and he’s a thousand times more comfortable in it!


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

Yesterday was a great day for my gelding and my trainer, he did awesome and was in frame and did good.. my trainer taught me how to get him on the bit (I wasn’t on him though  ) 
Anyway, she didn’t come out today so it was my day to ride him.. I was overly confident about getting him on the bit, it really didn’t go to plan.. it was one of those days where it was just horrible! I am definitely not doing something right, and he’s getting confused between the two of us.. but since he needs to be worked everyday I have to ride him and she doesn’t come out everyday so it’s hard so we were hoping he would just learn to get use to both of us, but it’s not working well  
hopefully I’ll have some better training days with him in the future.

anyway, I’m going to try to do some lessons with her on him so she can really show me how to get him on the bit.. I’m really discouraged because im definitely not riding him correctly.. it’s just not working out, hopefully in the future it’ll work out, I love him to bits!

My trainer says I’m experienced and advanced enough to finish him off the end of this month, but I definitely don’t think so, we’re planing to show him by April!! And she’s hoping I can do a circuit and some Hunter derby’s, hopefully she’ll be jumping him by January.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Sounds like you need to have some lessons with your trainer while you are riding and she is on the ground to help you with the things you're having trouble with.


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

@Dreamcatcher Arabians yep, what I was thinking!


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

Yayyy had some (finally) awesome news from the vet today!!

had him out to do a stifle check, he did lots of different things and basically told me that my gelding has a very very very mild sticky stifle.. he said it’ll be fixed with work, and right now it’s hard to work him because it’s so rainy, wet, and freezing cold but he said by spring and summer he’ll be back to normal..
He also said it’s not worth putting him on eqiunoxx, just work him for an hour every day if possible, but make the warm up time longer than usual.. he’s also good to jump, but just needs a longer warm up time before jumping so his stifle doesn’t “stick”. 
he also lunged my gelding trying to show how his stifle gets “stuck” but it was so slight we could barley see it..in all honestly I couldn’t really see it lol. Then he showed me a video of a horse who did had a sticky stifle and it was pretty obvious and a huge difference between that horse and my gelding. 
sooo good news for me!

and he basically said it’s good to use a neck stretcher, but to use it correctly (so 5 mins one day, maybe 10 the next) and just gradually go longer and longer, and my trainer is just coming out whenever she feels like it and maybe it’s once every two weeks and expects him to be fine in the neck stretcher for 30mins, when he really isn’t ready for that length of time..and therefore making his neck sore.. and rushing the training.. which she fussed at me for rushing the training but wait what have I done? Lol! I haven’t pushed her at all. Oh the vet also checked his neck and said he’s fine.
time to find a new trainer? im definitely not paying her to make my horse sore 😑

Anywhooo, im going to try to work him everyday and do carrot stretches and he should be good! 

The riding arena should be done soon so it’ll make working him much much easier! Yippee!


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