# Pony Conformation Critique (possible buy)



## kerplop (Sep 22, 2008)

Hey everyone,
I found another pony in my area that I'm going to see this weekend, and the owner just sent me these conformation shots. I'm no expert, but one section of her looked... off to me. Or maybe she just needs a new farrier? 

Oh, and I'm looking for a pony jumper so conformation is pretty important to me!


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

Her feet look way off to me! I can't even look past those feet to see any other flaws those feet scare me! If you have a really good farrier in mind have him look at the horse before you buy.


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## lovemyponies (Jul 26, 2008)

okay I am really bad at judging feet, whats up with the feet on this pony? can you explain what is wrong with them, is it the angle? thanks!


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## kerplop (Sep 22, 2008)

Hah, okay, yeah, that's what was bothering me too. I think most of her toe could get the axe on the front, (I know nothing about feet but using my reasoning skills I'm assuming that...) but her front cannon bones seemed a little funky too- the way they come down out of her knee. Do you think that's because of her desperate need for a new farrier? Or am I just seeing things.

EDIT;
Sorry, didn't see your post lovemyponies...

I know that when my mare didn't get her feet done for four months and she had front shoes, (she was at a sale barn, but that's another story...hmph...) her feet grew out with the shoes in a similar way like this pony's and were like... caverns. Seriously, when I picked them out for the farrier when she was finally getting done, her feet were so grown over they were like caves on the inside. So I'm thinking that if the pony's foot was properly cut, then maybe the shoe would be a little farther back and her cannon bones wouldn't be so bent to compensate? And I'm pretty sure her pasterns are at about 45 degree angles so I don't think that's part of the problem... someone help me out here please!


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## lovemyponies (Jul 26, 2008)

thanks I agree they look off but I was hoping for a little more info....thanks! We have some farrier issues going on at our barn so I am trying to see as many pics and get as many opinions just to get more educated. interested to see others comments as well.....


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## bloodhoundmom28 (Jun 1, 2009)

unless its the picture her feet do look off almost like she has WAAAY to much toe and nothing in the back. her one leg does look a lil off also to me but then it could be the picture combined with the need for hoof work.


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## Fire Eyes (May 13, 2009)

_Awh, she's so pretty, but those feet are a bit iffy. :/ I'd get a *good *farrier to take a look before you buy!_


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## QHDragon (Mar 6, 2009)

She looks like she has the same problem Rocket had when i first got him. His past farrier for some reason was leaving his toes really long and his heals really low. My farrier came out and said it could be corrected in a few trims. We took his toes off and put shoes on him to raise his heals so they can grow. He moves better and I think he feels better too. 

I don't see anything glaringly wrong with her (other than maybe she has a bit of a steep hip), and her feet might be able to be fixed through some corrective trimming.


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

Conformationally, she's fine for what you want...HOWEVER

She is quite sore through her back, loin and sacrum. A peaked croup is never a good thing and is almost always an indication of a current or past sacrum injury.

She needs probably 6 months of rehab work; stretching, massage, chiropractic etc... to get her feeling better. 

And yeah, feet suck, but very fixable and will go a long way to making her feel better.


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## kerplop (Sep 22, 2008)

Mercedes said:


> She is quite sore through her back, loin and sacrum. A peaked croup is never a good thing and is almost always an indication of a current or past sacrum injury.


 
Someone posted a similar comment to that on the last pony I asked to be critiqued. I can't find anything on google that's helping me understand the cause or how to tell if a horse has a peaked croup- besides the obvious. Can you elaborate please?


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

kerplop said:


> Someone posted a similar comment to that on the last pony I asked to be critiqued. I can't find anything on google that's helping me understand the cause or how to tell if a horse has a peaked croup- besides the obvious. Can you elaborate please?


It was probably me that said it.

Just look at the croup...it comes to a peak. The muscling over the hindquarter should flow softly forward and into the loin. There should be no, lump, bump or peak.


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## 1dog3cats17rodents (Dec 7, 2007)

Isn't the pointed butt usually just do to lack of muscling?


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## reining girl (Jan 30, 2009)

she is nice looking, the feet definantly need work, but i think she is worht a try at least. How old, how tall, what bred (paint?) what has she done and how much are they asking?


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

1dog3cats17rodents said:


> Isn't the pointed butt usually just do to lack of muscling?


Yes and no. Typically the glutes are under developed from the horse not using them in an attempt to protect the sacrum from pain. In turn the loin is always tight and sore from take extra stress.

If the horse was emancipated, then we'd expect the croup to be peaked as the bone would be exposed. This is not the case with this horse. He's hurt himself at one time...slipped, been over jumped, or any other number of things.

The other time the croup will tend to 'peakiness' is with a weak loin coupling...badly placed ls joint. Again, something you want to avoid in a horse.


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## RedHawk (Jun 16, 2008)

Mercedes said:


> If the horse was *emancipated*...


emaciated :wink: The horse in your avatar is gorgeous, btw!


My horse has a goose rump, and he is not sore at all. In some cases, including his, it's just conformation. 
It is less noticable with more weight and muscle.


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

RedHawk said:


> emaciated :wink:


:lol: Yes, thx...note to self: don't try and do six things as once.



> The horse in your avatar is gorgeous, btw!


I'll tell him you said so. :wink:




> My horse has a goose rump, and he is not sore at all.


Not a goose rump. Goose rumped is when the pelvis is very steep and from the back, the hindquarter forms a 'V'.

Your horse is not the same as the horse posted by the OP. The horse the OP posted has/had a sacrum injury and also has a sore back and loin.

Your horse is only ever so slightly peaked and would not be at all if his/her back and loin was loosened up.


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## vbrill (Jul 8, 2009)

her back looks swayed and not very muscular but stretching her back by pulling the base of her tail then do so belly lifts then conditioning could solve it


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

The overall conformation is pretty decent, aside from a really steep croup. No major flaws as far as I can see, and would probably be well suited for low level jumping. He could use a lot more muscle, but his bone structure looks good.

However, her hooves look off and I think it's making her pasterns look funny. She has a little too much toe and her heels are really under-ridden. She needs more heel and that could probably be fixed with proper farrier work. You'll be able to judge her better if she gets her feet fixed.


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## RedHawk (Jun 16, 2008)

Mercedes said:


> Not a goose rump. Goose rumped is when the pelvis is very steep and from the back, the hindquarter forms a 'V'.
> 
> Your horse is not the same as the horse posted by the OP. The horse the OP posted has/had a sacrum injury and also has a sore back and loin.


Ok, but how do you tell the difference between a confo fault and a fault due to injury? Not trying to pick a fight, just curious. 



Mercedes said:


> Your horse is only ever so slightly peaked and would not be at all if his/her back and loin was loosened up.


How do I loosen him up?


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## LiveToJump (Jun 19, 2009)

My horse has a goose rump, although he had one when I got him. I assumed it was just his conformation, because he is not sore in the least, and is still pretty young. I know the previous owners, and I know there was never an injury to cause it.

I have started him in serious dressage training, to loosen his back and get him stretching. Your saying that in time, with this training and him loosing the tension, that this will go away?


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## LiveToJump (Jun 19, 2009)

Not trying to thread jack, sorry!

I do like the OP's pony, I do think it would do quite well in Jumpers as there isn't anything other than the rump that stands out conformationally. The pony is actually built pretty nicely, IMO.

The feet, as everyone else is saying, would worry me too. Just get a good farrier's opinion on it before purchasing, and you'll be ok. Good luck!


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## Sparkles (Apr 30, 2009)

She just has no heel that's all, that is an easy fix over time. 
She's an overall cute pony, just needs so muscle/top line.


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## Jillyann (Mar 31, 2009)

I agree with Sparkles, She just has no heal so it makes her toes stick out pretty far. That can easily be fixed.


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## kerplop (Sep 22, 2008)

Thanks for all of the replies!

I'm going to see her today, so I'll let everyone know how that goes!


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## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

Mercedes- are you talking about a "hunters bump"?? A hunters bump is from the tearing of some sort of ligaments in highest point of the croup (sorry, don't remember all of the terminology). It doesn't necessarily mean that it's had an "injury" as I believe a lot of horses that have been jumped or worked hard can develop them, kind of like getting a stress fracture. And if I remember correctly a horse with a long loin (like this horse has) is much more prone to developing them. From the picture though I can't decide if it's an actual hunters bump or if he's conformationally built that way. Some horse's just have a very high pointed croup. In the first pic he also looks downhill. The second shot? Not so much. 

As I mentioned he has a very long loin, which is not great for holding up to the rigors of jumping. But I'd be most concerned that his front legs are so far back underneath him! It'll be harder to get him back on his haunches like that. His shoulder is also rather shallow but nice and laid back. His neck is nice and long with a clean throat latch. everyone already mentioned his incredibly long toe and low heel but with a decent farrier that shouldn't be an issue. Overall he's very cute but there are some flaws on here that raise some concern. Let us know how it goes!


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## kerplop (Sep 22, 2008)

Here are the videos I got from today. (This is not me riding) Is it just me being picky or does her hind end look off at the walk? She was just starting off so it could have been a little been of that, but she felt so good at the trot I forgot to video her after she w/t/c-ed.

And she does bend and use her back- at the trot at least. I was playing around when I got on but felt bad that I was walking for 10 minutes, (her owner looked like she was falling asleep...) so then I started trotting and she really has the long and low thing down. There were several instances where she got a little too strong with her putting head/neck down and I couldn't tell if she was trying to get away from the bit or she thought she needed to put her head lower. (I remember the owner saying something about using side reins) That could be fixed though. At the canter she was definitely green, (issues with getting her leads, and getting them to swap in the back which I guess will come from more muscle?) and got a little strong in the corners- I really had to work to get her to not lean and stay up. On a good note, she was an awwwesome jumper. Definitely a pony jump, but you could feel the springs in her hind end. She was VERY good about taking care of her rider too. The owner was jumping over crossrails at an angle and got left behind a few times and the pony just kept going, and then when she went for the skinny and the sweedish oxer, (the combo in the video) the owner was left behind on both jumps and pony just kept truckin'! I went over the cross rails a few times and the oxer, and I played with long spots over the crossrail and for the oxer we got a little too close but she saved me and chipped in a bit. Again, she really took care of her rider over fences.

Walk
Trot
Canter
Jump

I liked her, but I still have to decide if she's worth going back out with my trainer. (who's away this weekend, and she'll see these videos when she gets back!) A couple of things made me kind of go "eh", including her constant tail swishing when you asked her to move. Not sure if she was completely comfortable in the saddle she was ridden in though. (It didn't look like it fit properly from a few angles)

Also, how much would you pay for her, personally? I thought she was overpriced a bit considering all the factors, (economy, and being green) and was trying to come up with a reasonable number that I would offer for her.

Thanks everyone.


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

RedHawk said:


> Ok, but how do you tell the difference between a confo fault and a fault due to injury? Not trying to pick a fight, just curious.


Well, that's called practice. Palpating a lot of horse to find the ls joint, working with chiro's and other health care practitioners, studying conformation and biomechanics, training a lot of horses in different disciplines to find their limits and so on...

Neither horse here has a confo fault in this area. Your horse's confo fault and why the back and loin are tight and the abs weak is that he's post-legged.



> How do I loosen him up?


Stretching, massage and correct work.


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

upnover said:


> Mercedes- are you talking about a "hunters bump"?? A hunters bump is from the tearing of some sort of ligaments in highest point of the croup (sorry, don't remember all of the terminology). It doesn't necessarily mean that it's had an "injury" as I believe a lot of horses that have been jumped or worked hard can develop them, kind of like getting a stress fracture.


I think you'll want to reread what you wrote. 

By the very nature of 'tearing' a ligament means there's been an 'injury'. That horses are generous and find a way to compensate doesn't make it any less of an injury, often times with permanent damage, thus an area of weakness that is more susceptible of reinjury.

And yes, a lot of jumping horses do have this injury because so many people lack common sense; jumping horses too young, over jumping them, not managing them appropriately and so on.



> And if I remember correctly a horse with a long loin (like this horse has) is much more prone to developing them. From the picture though I can't decide if it's an actual hunters bump or if he's conformationally built that way. Some horse's just have a very high pointed croup. In the first pic he also looks downhill. The second shot? Not so much.


Pictures are gone, but I don't remember the horse being long through the loin. And no, that in and of itself doesn't make the sacrum more susceptible, it makes the loin more susceptible to stress and injury. A poorly placed ls joint makes the loin AND sacrum susceptible as do a few other traits like being post-legged.



> As I mentioned he has a very long loin, which is not great for holding up to the rigors of jumping. But I'd be most concerned that his front legs are so far back underneath him!


His front legs are under him like that because his back, loin and sacrum are sore. It's a classic pain stance.


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## kerplop (Sep 22, 2008)

Sorry about the pictures, I noticed for the first time that I could put my photobucket pictures in albums and didn't realize that the addresses would change. Here they are...


































And is the soreness reinforced in her movement in the videos?


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

She moves like expected...leg mover, on her forehand, behind the aids, submissive but not seeking contact, very little joint articulation, but in a steady pace. Trot shows some toe dragging with hocks trailing and the thrust of the stride being behind the hip instead of under it. Canter same. No power, no animation, a horse who's just trying to get along and get through the day.

This is your good all-around user that you put your husband, grandchildren, inexperienced sister on. She could be much more than she is. The video is too jerky on my computer to tell if she's off...a few times in the trot video it looked like she was off in front...if she is, it'll be because of her feet. Behind is just that she doesn't get her hocks under her (that'll be that tight back and loin and the sacrum) and just pulls herself along with that big front end.

Was all the video on the right rein?

And not long through the loin.

Yet another horse in a martingale for no good reason. Is that you riding? If so, stop riding the horse's head. :wink:


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## kerplop (Sep 22, 2008)

Everything was on the right rein in the videos except the trot, which was going left too.

And no, not me riding.

Yes, I have noticed that as well about the martingales. The last pony I went to see had one too even though she probably didn't need it if ridden with more contact.

I'm going to show my trainer the videos and see what she thinks. Thanks for your input everyone, I'll mention the things you brought up.


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## jz131 (Jun 20, 2009)

What size pony are you looking for? how far are you willing to travel? price range?


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## kerplop (Sep 22, 2008)

Are you selling? PM me if you have anything and I'll let you know!


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

kerplop said:


> Everything was on the right rein in the videos except the trot, which was going left too.




Okay, well I only got part of the trot video downloaded and it was all right rein that's why I asked. Wondering if the horse was only ridden on the right rein, and if so, why?



> And no, not me riding.


Good, I was going to have to smack you if it was. :wink:


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