# Biting while bareback riding



## Candio (Jan 23, 2015)

Another example http://youtu.be/8CWWQd7Xo6g


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## EponaLynn (Jul 16, 2013)

Candio said:


> - she doesn't try this under saddle but honestly *if I was in the saddle my knee jerk reaction would most likely let her teeth meet my boot* (I know, bad, it's instinctive)
> 
> Candio


Personally, I'd be doing the above (bolded), even bareback, unless you don't think you can stay on afterwards (maybe wear a helmet that day). I don't think it's a bad thing to do, she's trying hard to nail you. In my world if it's them or me, I make sure it's them!

She may know you don't have as much control without a saddle and that's why she's trying it (I assume she doesn't do this with the saddle on).

She is doing this on purpose and you have to stop it asap.


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

With bareback, sometimes your coccyx (tail bone) can grind on the horse's spine as you roll back onto your pockets. I noticed in the first video she tried to nip you after a slight lurch back where you did roll back your pelvis slightly onto your tail. 

Since she doesn't do it under saddle, it may be her trying to tell you it hurts. Try to borrow a good thick bareback pad from someone and see if she still does the same thing.


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## EponaLynn (Jul 16, 2013)

Reiningcatsanddogs said:


> Since she doesn't do it under saddle, it may be her trying to tell you it hurts. Try to borrow a good thick bareback pad from someone and see if she still does the same thing.


 She mentioned it was only in the same place though. But you do make a good point.


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## Candio (Jan 23, 2015)

Reiningcatsanddogs said:


> With bareback, sometimes your coccyx (tail bone) can grind on the horse's spine as you roll back onto your pockets. I noticed in the first video she tried to nip you after a slight lurch back where you did roll back your pelvis slightly onto your tail.
> 
> Since she doesn't do it under saddle, it may be her trying to tell you it hurts. Try to borrow a good thick bareback pad from someone and see if she still does the same thing.


YES, I have one at my other barn, I will dig it out. It is my cue to her to stop, to sit back on my pockets or sit deepr (I'm trying to learn to ride with a lot less reins). But it doesn't do a lot of good if it hurts her. I will try the bareback pad. 

@EponaLynn thanks for your advice as well. When I was younger I would have given her a hearty kick to the nose while bareback but these days I'm more conscious of hitting the ground since it hurts more as the years go on. I think in the first video you can see her tense up when I correct her on the opposeite rein - she looks like her next move will be more drastic if I irritate her even more. She is definitely doing this on purpose and it's just sad because we used to be so good together. 

In this situation - what should I do as far as getting on with the rest of the ride? My goal today was to get a video of her gait (or lack thereof), but I had to cut it short b/c of her attitude. I walked her around and around for another 20 min or so but she continued to act like this. Eventually I picked a time when she wasn't misbehaving to end the ride. Did some more groundwork for awhile (she was bored and a lot less responsive). Frustrating. I feel like I could have walked her around a few more hours and she would have continued to steadily act like a turd.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Candio said:


> YES, I have one at my other barn, I will dig it out. I*t is my cue to her to stop, to sit back on my pockets or sit deepr *(I'm trying to learn to ride with a lot less reins). But it doesn't do a lot of good if it hurts her. I will try the bareback pad.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Candio (Jan 23, 2015)

tinyliny said:


> Candio said:
> 
> 
> > YES, I have one at my other barn, I will dig it out. I*t is my cue to her to stop, to sit back on my pockets or sit deepr *(I'm trying to learn to ride with a lot less reins). But it doesn't do a lot of good if it hurts her. I will try the bareback pad.
> ...


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

She doesn't look very happy with you overall. Is she different under saddle?

Agree try a bareback pad. A gaited saddle wont' necessarily fit just because it's gaited. Nor will a normal saddle not fit.

So figure out why she's so unhappy.

That said she is biting because you let her. She's really going at you (hope she hasn't gotten you yet!) and you sit there and let her.

You'd better be booting her in the face or grab a whip and spank her HARD. This will only get worse and it's worrisome it's gotten to this point.

If you genuinely don't think you can (and honestly dont' think you should be riding bareback if t hat's the case) hop off IMMEDIATELY and get after her.

This should of happened ONCE if that.

If the saddle fits "well enough" put one on and do exactly what you're doing in the video.

Yes she seems barn sour- you're letting her be, I do think she also looks annoyed overall and uncomfortable, don't know if that's her norm or if she doesn't like BB, and she's biting because she can because she's being sour and you're letting her.


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## Candio (Jan 23, 2015)

Hi Yogiwick, thank you for your response. I guess the consensus is I should get a saddle pad and give her a good hard kick (I need to be in the saddle for that). I just don't understand, I got this horse 4 years ago and never needed a tactic that was even remotely aggressive with her, it's been so long that I've thrown out my crop. She got this bad in the span of the last TWO rides which is why I thought I'd get advice before giving her a good hard kick.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

No matter WHAT the cause you need to discipline and I don't care HOW you discipline (assuming you aren't beating her!) as long as it is effective.

On the other hand I completely agree with figuring out WHY this is happening. DO correct the behavior and do NOT let it happen again but agree it's your responsibility in exchange to figure out what's bothering her.

How long have you been riding her bareback? It does seem to be bothering her.

She is acting barn sour but if there's something about BB that's hurting her it could be triggering that as in "get off I want to go home now". As I said even when she's not acting up she doesn't look exactly thrilled so I think a pad would be a good start and assuming the fit is "good enough" I would make a point of using a saddle. Some horses just don't like BB or you may be sitting in a way or gripping in a way she doesn't like. I agree a pad is a good first step in that direction.

If she continues doing this with discipline and with a well fitting saddle I would get the vet out. Maybe a chiro first.

So yes, you need a game plan but remember no matter WHAT the reason is this is unacceptable behavior.


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## Candio (Jan 23, 2015)

I've ridden her bareback for the 4 years I've had her, after the initial time it took to train her to let me do it. I'm going back to a saddle today. I stopped using the saddle b/c I suspected that it was keeping her from gaiting correctly, but I don't think it ever caused her pain, like the BB seems to. I will watch her closely with the saddle today and see if she's better. In the meantime I'm looking for a gaited saddle in hopes it'll fit better. 

With all this being said, probably she is ****y b/c her whole routine is changed (and there's the need for a bareback pad). Usually I take her out on a trail ride with another horse a few time a month. Not usually, always. The last week and a half, I've had her isolated and we've been doing only groundwork, walk/trot in a small paddock, every day rain or shine. I think she's just bored. It's also possible she has muscle aches from working every day. There are so many factors to consider. 

Either way, thanks everybody for your input!


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

If she was in pain she'd always be in pain, not only in one spot.

As you're not comfortable fixing this bareback this is what I would do. The second she turned her head I would slide off, pull her head to me & spank her butt around a few times, then get back on as if nothing happened. I'd have some nice long split reins for the job. That may sound mean but a chunk taken out of your leg wouldn't be too nice either.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Personally I think she looks more than just ****y (other than when she actually fusses lol).

If the saddle fits properly it shouldn't effect her gaiting, so it either fits or it doesn't. Make sure it's positioned correctly and isn't blocking her shoulders.

In the videos you're just walking anyways (or I missed it if you did anything else haha) so putting the saddle on to walk around shouldn't matter. I'd be curious to see a video of her "normally"


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Try carrying a crop or stick. Sometimes just pretending you'll use it can be a deterrent. If you have to use it, use it behind your leg, not on her rump, hip or shoulder. Give her a tap to start. She's doing her own version of a half-halt.


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## Candio (Jan 23, 2015)

Saddlebag said:


> Try carrying a crop or stick. Sometimes just pretending you'll use it can be a deterrent. If you have to use it, use it behind your leg, not on her rump, hip or shoulder. Give her a tap to start. She's doing her own version of a half-halt.


Hi Saddlebag - can you tell me why you advise to use the crop behind my leg? Just curious.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

It's used as an extension of the leg, only a little sharper. Many will tap a horse on the rump which often invites a buck. I've found that once a horse feels it and knows you are carrying it, the issues seem to disappear. For years I never rode my trail horse bareback without carrying a crop. Just his knowing I had it was enough to curb his shenanigans.


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## 1111aqua (Jul 25, 2008)

If my mare ever tried to do that when I was bareback, I would be off her slapping her rump with her spinning circles. Nothing teaches good manners like making them move their feet at your request.

Your mare is obviously lacking respect for you and you need to get that back. I'm not saying to beat your horse obviously, but a quick slap on the hind end either with your hand or the reins (if split) can do wonders.


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## Candio (Jan 23, 2015)

Okay folks. I didn't catch this on camera but I saddled her up and sure enough at the barn-sour-spot she reached around to bite me and I took the end of my long reins and cracked her hard right behind the ears (not sure why I picked that spot, it just happened). 

The first video I have is directly afterward. You can see at 24s I cracked her (near my leg) a second time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Prk6u4lRvY

After that I had NO PROBLEM 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlXDiSo_pkw

So I think I have begun to get my respect back but it is still my responsibility to understand if she might be in pain and why. I'm still working this; when you watch the videos, please see if you can find anything that might indicate soreness. She has an injury from last year on her back near leg.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

You hit your horse??!! Twice!!!! :wink:
Good for you! She may try it again thinking you made a mistake, but now you know what to do.


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## Candio (Jan 23, 2015)

natisha said:


> You hit your horse??!! Twice!!!! :wink:
> Good for you! She may try it again thinking you made a mistake, but now you know what to do.


Yes, I think she thought it might have been a terrible insect the first time. After I got her good the second time, she finally was like OH CRAP I GET IT NOW. 

I grew up on a stubborn old quarter horse who had to be switched to do ANYTHING. I didn't know better and I just continued on that tradition with him and I've _always _regretted it. When I got this horse a few years ago, I wanted to never have to hit her but I see I must find some middle ground.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

this is a Rocky mt. horse, right?

she sometimes seems a bit gimpy on her right fore.


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## Candio (Jan 23, 2015)

tinyliny said:


> this is a Rocky mt. horse, right?
> 
> she sometimes seems a bit gimpy on her right fore.


Yes she is a Rocky Mtn.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Good for you for nipping this in the bud! Great job!

Prompt and fair discipline is a good thing. Don't nitpick and definitely don't hurt her but if she sees the rules as black and white you will BOTH be much happier. Keep it up.

That said now that she is going forward more nicely I see that she still looks cranky and unhappy. I agree she's lame but it seems to swap around a little (I see a head bob on both feet at times).

She looks heavy, if she is fix that, it's not good anyways and won't help lameness.

Those tight circles are making me cringe even on a sound horse. Those are slow walking speed circles and still a little tight for that.

She's stretched out hollowing her back with her ears back in an uncomfortable way. She is moving forward now that you've made it clear but I do think she was/is trying to tell you something. I see limping on the LF but the headbob swaps at times. She doesn't seem "even" though.

Does she trot? That's easier for me for pinpointing lameness, but either way I'd be curious to see a video of her without you on her back, lunging, loose in hand whatever.

I would look at a good chiro and depending on the results a vet as well and until then not push her under saddle if you even ride her at all.

The saddle does seem to help a little though.

Here's just a random video of a same breed horse:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9Iz5orVpdM

Note the difference in body carriage, regardless of training (and breed) the horse should be happy and forward and in *some sort* of self carriage (training will enhance this of course). You mare is trying to avoid something and is moving very awkwardly as a result.

You said you noticed a difference in her gaits- I think the above is what you are feeling and since you said the saddle does fit would say it's 100% a physical issue.


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## Candio (Jan 23, 2015)

Yogiwick - here is a vid of her on the longe the same day. I'm new to this kind of work as well so I'll take critique here too http://youtu.be/Ze9cMnvVX9U

You are right, she is lame. Today I saddled her up to ride her and noticed she was really favoring her LF within 2 seconds of walking her on the longe during initial. So we quit and just hung out together eating grass for awhile. 

I'm going to let her rest and watch her for awhile. 

Btw thanks for letting me know those circles were too fast to be that tight. I honestly had no idea. I watch her play in the field while chasing the dog or pasture mates and try to keep it to what I think is her athletic level but I imagine now that it should be different when she's carrying a rider.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Altho no dire consequences when you let her have it on the poll, I've seen horses suddenly partly rear and throw their head back, smashing the rider in the face. Best behind your leg with the reins or a crop.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

It's great to have so much to go on!

Definitely lame LF. I'm concerned that since you've posted it's gotten worse and that it was that obvious at a walk today. I would get the vet out asap and not ride her until checked. If she's lame in the paddock I'd call the vet and get "until they come out" advice.

I was looking to see if she looked so unhappy without a rider on her back. She looks unhappy at the trot but is obviously sore and looks much better at a walk though a little fussy at being "directed" but that's not a pain response lol. So for the meantime I would be checking out her lameness and not worry about anything more than that.

As far as critique on the lunge- again with the small circles! Even if the horse CAN do it it is very difficult and even if not obviously difficult puts a LOT of stress on the joints. Get a longer line (at _least_ twice as long) and attempt to not walk with her (I always do a little because I get dizzy lol). Carry a lunge whip. You shouldn't need to use it since she seems responsive but the whip will be an extension of your arm so you don't need to be as dramatic. Don't lunge either until the vet has seen her.

She's a sweet little mare to be so cooperative when sore. She's making it clear she's sore but then she does it anyways and she is much cuter with her ears up and pleasant expression! lol

Circles- yes it's VERY different with a rider. Not only are those small enough to be physically difficult which is #1 concern but circles are very hard on the joints, even a larger 20m circle while not immediately difficult puts a lot of stress on the horse. It may be aggravating her lameness. Also a tight circle at a slow gait is much much easier than the same circle at a faster gait. She's very willing but see how you're almost yanking her around (you aren't, but you can get the impression of her going "oh this way now!").

It's relevant to fitness/athleticism but it's also even more about stress and strain on the body which won't be effected by fitness.

Small circles have a place but not in day to day or regular riding/training.

Let us know how things go. I like your little mare


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