# It disgusts me!



## alli09

People can't accept the fact that horse slaughter is banned here in the US!They have to figure out a way to be able to sell horse meat somehow.So how do they do it?They kill other peoples family horses :-x It seriously hurts me and my hearts go out to the people that have lost their horses because selfish greedy people wanted money.


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## ThatNinjaHorse

I know almost nothing about this, but wouldnt they take them out of the US to do it, i heard Canada? I could be wrong. And they do it, for money. They buy horses, legit, horses not many would want. So its not as if they take a familys beloved pet. Im not saying i like it, but its never going to stop. Theres a large market for it.


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## Lonannuniel

I totally agree. Horse slaughter is disgusting. All though the fact that they kill horses is terrible, i think the worst part about these slaughter houses is how they kill them. If they used humane methods and made the process quick and painless, it would make it slightly better, because the slaughter buisness is a massive market.

I am against the slaughter buisness, and the fact that canada is still allowing horse slaughter really makes me ashamed, since i live in canada.


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## Rissa

Lonannuniel said:


> I totally agree. Horse slaughter is disgusting. All though the fact that they kill horses is terrible, i think the worst part about these slaughter houses is how they kill them. If they used humane methods and made the process quick and painless, it would make it slightly better, because the slaughter buisness is a massive market.
> 
> I am against the slaughter buisness, and the fact that canada is still allowing horse slaughter really makes me ashamed, since i live in canada.



Do you eat cow? Chicken? Pig? Turkey? Farmed fish from mills? Is it okay to slaughter them? Have you ever seen how they kill chickens or turkeys? Cattle often get the same treatment that horses do from my knowledge.


If horse slaughter WASN'T illegal in the US the USDA could monitor slaughter houses and keep things lawful. Do you work in slaughter houses? Do you know for sure how they kill horses in these places? Or do you just know the shock value videos published by PETA or SHARK online to scare people with grotesque things that are not usually the norm? 

It's a necessary evil. How many QH's are registered each year? Thoroughbreds? Backyard bred grade horses? I know someone who rides a FRIESIAN stallion they rescued out of a slaughter house feed lot.

Where are these horses going to go if slaughter is banned totally on horses?

How is it any different than slaughter of a cow? Indian people don't eat cow and probably think we're barbaric for doing so since they are idols to them. 

Italy I know buys horse meat.

Japanese people eat shark fin soup and Orca meat. 

Until there isn't one single horse tied to a tree starving to death because Bobby Jo thought his gangly stud colt just HAD to breed to his mare, what can we do exactly? 

I know I know it's not just back yard breeders. I've seen lots of fine bred horses shipped off to slaughter too. Including Friesians. 

So what CAN we do? What do you think we can do?


Legal, regulated slaughter houses in the US that must function under lawful guidelines and kill in humane ways or keep it illegal and have them sent far away to other places such as Canada and Mexico where there isn't going to be the same scrutiny of the public and the law and the USDA?

Let the hundreds of thousands of horses who starve and die from neglect rot? 

Whine about it on forums online?

Who knows.

I love horses, but life is life. Sad as that is.


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## Rissa

Also there seems to be some sort of flaw in your logic.

Have you ever been to an auction house ANYWHERE in the US right now?

From Virginia to California? It's a Kill Buyers Dream. 

You know what a Kill Buyer said to me a few months ago while I fought him to unload a huge Irish Draught Sport Horse off his trailer? BIG and dappled gray with black mane and tail. He was beautiful.

*"He's worth more dead than alive right now."* and he made a slicing motion across his neck and walked away. People who buy and sell horse meat are not at a loss for stock right now. I really doubt they are sneaking off in the night whisking away little Susie's pony Merry Legs. All they have to do is have a couple hundred bucks and a trailer and pull into any auction house right now and leave with a full trailer.

The last auction I was at a large Percheron gelding, rode in by a boy was sold to a KB for 50 dollars. A pair of unbroke Arabian colts were sold for 25 dollars EACH to a KB.

The Irish Draught I tried so hard to get off the trailer was sold for 250. He was at least 17.1 and the first one put in the trailer and the KB wouldn't unload the seven other horses so I could get that boy off.


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## Spastic_Dove

I think what she was talking about is the cases where a family pet WAS stolen and butchered. I saw a few news reports of it happening somewhere in new york (?) apparently there is a demand for horse meat over there, and horses are getting butchered in a far more inhumane way than they ever would at a slaughter house.


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## Jillyann

As sad as it is, I have to agree with Rissa. She nailed it on a lot of points.


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## Rissa

Spastic_Dove said:


> I think what she was talking about is the cases where a family pet WAS stolen and butchered. I saw a few news reports of it happening somewhere in new york (?) apparently there is a demand for horse meat over there, and horses are getting butchered in a far more inhumane way than they ever would at a slaughter house.



Ah. Well. I guess some kind of facts, details, links or information would have gotten her point across a lot better.


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## MN Tigerstripes

I believe it was in FL that they were/are having that problem too....


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## QtrHorse

Unfortunately we have to face the fact that there is a large market for horse meat. Here where I live, it is sold in the grocery stores, in restaurants and there are special butcher shops that sell just horse. I think the "on the hoof" price is around $1 per pound now. There are many breeds that are bred and used for horse meat. Those animals who breed qualities do not merit the highest of standards are culled and sold for the meat. The Swiss Franche Montagne is an example. Many people purchase horse meat as an alternative to beef as it is less expensive. The market will continue to exist as long as the demand is there.
Supply and demand.


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## gogirl46

Rissa said:


> *"He's worth more dead than alive right now."*


The sad thing is it is true. Slaughter of any type is wrong (I'm a vegetarian so don't chastise me) but since it was made illegal in the United States, all the immigrants (especially in Florida) want horse meat because its part of their diet so horse meat is really expensive on the black market.


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## Crimsonhorse01

Its not Illegal to kill and eat a horse. Its illegal to sell it. Now stealing a horse and killing it is terribly wrong. I feel horrible for the owners in Florida. I cant imagine going to the pasture and finding my horse gone.


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## alli09

Rissa, I recommend slaughterhouse.You will see that when the horse slaughterhouses were open here in the US the USDA wasn't doing anything for them.They still aren't doing anything for the other animals that are slaughtered.Once you read that book you will change your views on all that stuff.


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## alli09

Crimsonhorse01 said:


> Its not Illegal to kill and eat a horse. Its illegal to sell it. Now stealing a horse and killing it is terribly wrong. I feel horrible for the owners in Florida. I cant imagine going to the pasture and finding my horse gone.


where are you getting your facts from? If the police found out you were breeding horses and butchering them and eating them on your property that would be considered animal cruelty and you will get fined for it.


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## Rissa

Ali, the only way I will change my mind is when I see you in the newspaper. In the new because you are giving shelter and food and medical care to every single suffering, used up, broken down, sick or unwanted horse.

Till then? We need them. Slaughterhouses. Sad as it is.

Let me know when I can see you on CNN.


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## Rissa

alli09 said:


> where are you getting your facts from? If the police found out you were breeding horses and butchering them and eating them on your property that would be considered animal cruelty and you will get fined for it.


I bought a pig, a little piglet. Raised it on my friends farm. When he was real bi I butchered him and we ate like kings.

In the grand scheme of things how is that any different? People have to eat. Circle of life, food chain. All that stuff.


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## flamingauburnmustang

Quote by Rissa: "It's a necessary evil. How many QH's are registered each year? Thoroughbreds? Backyard bred grade horses? I know someone who rides a FRIESIAN stallion they rescued out of a slaughter house feed lot. Where are these horses going to go if slaughter is banned totally on horses?"

If this is the case, they should start doing it with humans too, because there are so many, actually too many, humans inhabiting this earth. 'We must start slaughtering our own kind, it is the right thing to do'....

That won't be right at all. It is sick, just like horse slaughtering. People don't realise how disgusting they can be....the methods they use to kill them. This goes for all other animals too, like chickens and cows. They must at least be killed humanely if we are to eat them.

This is my opinion. I don't know about you all....if horse slaughtering HAS to go on, at least do it humanely, and make sure they have proper care before they are terminated.........

I hate this violent world we are in today....something has to give. = (


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## Rissa

Yeah, they probably should put some kind of population control on all species.


I loooooove how you flip around what I have said and male it look like I spoke about people. Such a typical approach.


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## close2prfct

Whether we like it or not there is a demand for horse meat it is no different than any other meat on the market here or elsewhere.
People also eat alligator, snake, snails, bugs, monkey brains and the list goes on and on it is absolutely no different with horses. It's all in the culture and mindset you grew up with. 
Slaughter houses are a necessary evil for those of us who love horses and they don't want and can't butcher sickly horses for human consumption no more than they can butcher sick cows or chickens. They have to have healthy disease free stock.
You can also bet your bootstraps if I had a horse that was an absolute danger to anyone it came in contact with and was healthy if there was a slaughterhouse nearby I would be telling them take the dang thing before it kills someone. 

Now the idea of population control? As much as I would love to see an end to stupid people breeding it's not going to happen and it is beyond wrong to want the government or any other type of entity to control the worlds population by extermination that is what Hitler and every other psycho nut job in power believed in. Create the perfect race and everyone else must die. Population control would start with those that are elderly, sick or crippled..how many of our grandparents and even parents would fall into that category? How many kids do you know that were in a wheelchair that might be a victim or someone who is blind or deaf? For years baby girls were killed in other countries because they were not boys, it very well may still go on because higher value was put on sons than it was on daughters. 

I do believe the original post was regarding those in FL that were stealing and killing horses illegally, as far as that goes a horse thief in my opinion should be hung just like in the old days. Unfortunately we are a more "liberated" country and hangings are not allowed because it's inhumane...rolls eyes.
Hang em I bet their buddies would think twice about stealing someone's horse or anything else for that matter.


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## flamingauburnmustang

Rissa said:


> Yeah, they probably should put some kind of population control on all species.
> 
> 
> I loooooove how you flip around what I have said and male it look like I spoke about people. Such a typical approach.


LOL. :mrgreen:

Well, in a way China is helping to reduce numbers in human population, but then again they are the one's eating all these weird animals like cats and snakes. You just never win, do you?


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## Crimsonhorse01

alli09 said:


> where are you getting your facts from? If the police found out you were breeding horses and butchering them and eating them on your property that would be considered animal cruelty and you will get fined for it.


Sorry but where are you getting YOUR facts from? I live in Wy and MT, I seem to bounce allot. Anyways, I would be charged with animal cruelty if I did not house or care for my animal. I would not be charged with animal curelty for killling my livestock. What is the difference between a horse and a cow? They are both listed under LIVESTOCK. I can take a horse, cow, chicken, rabbit, goose, whatever and kill it and process it. I can even take a horse to a regular butcher shop and get it processed. (mind they have to be willing to). Now if I lived in Michigan, I know they have a "humane euthinasa" law. I would probably be charged with animal cruelty, But I for sure will never live in Michigan or California (who is the only state actually to ban horse meet from the dinner table) for that reason. Different states have different laws. Im sure not going end up in the rediculus ones, . For sure they will all end up as vegitarians with time. :S So please do your research before you call me on my FACTS.


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## 3neighs

> Im sure not going end up in the rediculus ones, . For sure they will all end up as vegitarians with time.


Please don't make assumptions like this. I'm from Michigan and I can guarantee you I won't become a vegetarian based on our horse slaughter laws. 

The original post of this thread was regarding the illegal stealing and killing of horses in FL. One slaughter thread has recently been closed and this one is close to getting the same as it has gone off topic, there is no progress being made and the posts are getting rude.


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## Crimsonhorse01

3neighs said:


> Please don't make assumptions like this. I'm from Michigan and I can guarantee you I won't become a vegetarian based on our horse slaughter law.


I am sorry if I had offended you with that. Its just if you let the gov. decide what you can and cannot do with your horse. Like putting it down or not eating it, what Else can they tell you cant do? It just leads to more and more gov. influence on things they should not have. example: They can say you can no longer eat a chicken because they are inhumanely killed.
I saw they closed the other post, one of the reasons because of false facts. I wanted to make sure the facts were known. That its illegal to sell horse meet. Its illegal to eat horse in Cali. It is illegal to shoot your own horse in Michigan. It is not illegal in most other states to kill or eat horse in most states.


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## Aoi Miku

Wow, touchy subject.
I think I'd personally raise hell in the UK if they closed our slaughterhouses. I can't believe we only have 2, for the amount of crap England is spouting out in the Showing, Natives and Racehorse department we need at least 4.

I can't imagine the neglect cases that have arisen since this, well, law came into effect in the States.
I already knew the USA alone had a lot of horses, but banning slaughter? Seriously? Wow.

Everything that Rissa's typed, I 100% agree with.

For real "ZOMG they're hurting the pretty ponies." Check Europe and Asia out.
The Eastern Europeans breed Comtois, Bretons, Ardennes etc; in the masses for the sale in Maraus and the trip to Italy.
For those on the France Italy border, meh, not a long trip so it's only the rancid slaughter method they have to look forward too.
Not too mention the ones that come in from Poland.

In Asia they'll breed anything they get they hands on, use them for fighting then have yummy horse soup at the fight.
Nice.

Horses are livestock, no matter what way you look at it, they live, they breathe, they die, just like any animal.
I love Cows, Horses and Sheep alike not forgetting Chickens, hence why I'm a vegetarian.
I fail to see what makes horses so much more superior to any other animal.

It just seems like a never ending argument on the whole subject.


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## Rissa

flamingauburnmustang said:


> LOL. :mrgreen:
> 
> Well, in a way China is helping to reduce numbers in human population, but then again they are the one's eating all these weird animals like cats and snakes. You just never win, do you?



Well. Italy and Russia buy horse meat. French people eat snails. Dogs are consumed in cambodia. 

I don't think Chinese people are the only ones who eat weird things. Though in my opinion we all eat weird things. Ever really looked into what goes I into fast food?

Look up Balut. Popular with the Asian culture.


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## flamingauburnmustang

Rissa said:


> Well. Italy and Russia buy horse meat. French people eat snails. Dogs are consumed in cambodia.
> 
> I don't think Chinese people are the only ones who eat weird things. Though in my opinion we all eat weird things. Ever really looked into what goes I into fast food?
> 
> Look up Balut. Popular with the Asian culture.


Very true... :lol:


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## alli09

I hate seeing people talking about animal meat like they aren't living things and like they don't have just as much of a right to live as us.


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## Barrelracer Up

alli09 said:


> I hate seeing people talking about animal meat like they aren't living things and like they don't have just as much of a right to live as us.


I flipped through this discussion awhile back so I can't remember - Are you a vegetarian?

I eat meat, my body was designed to consume both plants and animals. Once, I raised an Angus beef calf that was half blind. He could not have led a full, comfortable life, so when he was a good yearling size we took him to the butcher. Did I cry? Absolutely. Did I eat the meat or let it rot? I ate it.

At least we, as higher mammals, can humanely kill our food. Most of us don't go and maul our prey like a lion would, or drown it like an alligator, or slowly choke it like a snake. In our history, we eat what we kill, we kill what we need, and we thank the animal and God for the life that it gave to nourish another. Today, we ARE a wasteful nation, but we still gotta eat. 

It is your right to not eat meat, but it is our nature as omnivores to eat both.

Would I eat horse? If it were cooked and offered to me, I would. Just like I would try alligator, rattlesnake, etc.... Would I eat my own horse? Not unless something catastrophic happened (war or disaster) and that was the only food available and both of us were starving to death, then I probably would. It isn't on my list to run out and try.


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## MacabreMikolaj

^ - Then don't read. You can hate it all you want but it's a fact of life.

It's called a food chain. Through whatever intelligence we managed to get away with in the great plan of evolution, it's ultimately put us at the top. I don't agree with the WAY we mass produce and consume animals, I'd be much happier if we saw a return to hunting and processing our OWN food instead of depending on mass corporations to feed us, but that's the way it is.

I'd definately try horse if I was given the chance. Meat is meat, and I find it very repulsive how people think it's not okay to slaughter horses, but somehow it's fine to lock cows and pigs and chickens into tiny crates for their entire miserable lives and then die a death much more horrific then most horses experience.

Nobody is talking about animals like they're not living creatures. Don't make silly assumptions please just to further your own sense of right and wrong. We all own horses. We all love animals. We all do whatever we can in life to make them happy and comfortable and fight for them when the rights they DO have are being taken away. 

Horrific things happen to animals every day in the wild. They starve, they get sick, they get injured, or they get eaten alive - slowly. Animals don't live in a rainbow molly coddled world just because we do, and we all do our best to ensure our beloved pets don't suffer. So I really don't see the issue in killing animals for food - that's simply what they are in the ultimate aspect. Prey animals exist for one purpose - to feed the carnivores. At least we're in a position to make it easier on them then being taken down by a pack of wolves or a cougar, and yes I agree we should live up to and fulfill that position but the answer does not lie in the ban of slaughter.


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## Barrelracer Up

We need to go back to the time when a piglet or two were kept in the backyard. It was fed all the leftover scraps -which would lower our landfill mass - then which ever Holiday it was prime sized for, we say Grace and we eat it.

Then as our children grow up, it isn't such a shock when they find out the meat in the pretty packages they eat comes from living animals.


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## xLaurenOscarx

horse slaughter is just pure sick! id never ever ever send any animal there!
the way they kill them is so unhumane! its disgusting! it wouldnt make it half as bad if they did it kindly! and the condition the horses have to travel in!!
animal rights!!


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## Rissa

alli09 said:


> I hate seeing people talking about animal meat like they aren't living things and like they don't have just as much of a right to live as us.



I prefer animals over humans. Always have always will. However there is this thing called the Food Chain.

Watch the Lion King?

I wish I lived in the Sunshine and Rainbow Unicorn Dust world you live in.


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## xLaurenOscarx

food chain.... funny how the majority of countries horses aren't all that popular are they??

no because i dont want anyone depressing it on me thanks


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## Rissa

xLaurenOscarx said:


> food chain.... funny how the majority of countries horses aren't all that popular are they??
> 
> no because i dont want anyone depressing it on me thanks



If you want to live in Sunshine Dust and Rainbow land maybe this isn't the right thread for you? There are many other categories on this forum that are much happier.

And *sigh* there are other countries where horsemanship blows the US out of the water. ...oh why bother.

*bangs face into wall*


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## roro

I am so sick of reading these slaughter threads and seeing immature and rude behavior. You are ALL disrespecting yourselves when you speak about such a touchy subject by mocking each other's morals. You can't assume because someone is anti-slaughter they have a wonderful perfect life. There is absolutely NO correlation between someone's view on horse slaughter and the quality of their own life, please stop making brash assumptions. People that are pro-slaughter on here, try not to let your emotions cloud your posts. You will make more of an impact, anti or pro, if you state clear facts and do not mock each other.

Responding to the OP, there is absolutely no excuse for stealing a horse off the property to slaughter it. It has nothing to do with "OMG it's because we can't use slaughterhouses in America!" This is THEFT. There is no excuse at all for such behavior and it should be punished by law. And for reference, many people don't seem to understand that the slaughter houses are not looking for old sick horses. The kill buyers want the young, healthy horses. If you take a look at auction reports, you will see that most of the horses that go to slaughterhouses are young, untrained horses. A kill buyer does not want something that is underweight or diseased, and an older animal (regardless of species) has a lower quality of meat than a younger one. It is a breeding and training problem no matter how you cut it. Killing a young untrained horse is not "putting it out of its misery" in any way, the horse is killed because the breeder did not know what they were creating and could not train the horse, and thus decided to dump the horse at the auction. Re-opening slaughter houses in America would only get rid of these horses, it will not solve the problem. This is not a horse problem in the slightest, it is a human problem. We must educate ourselves on breeding and training, it is wrong to have horses die because of our own foolish mistakes.


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## alli09

roro said:


> I am so sick of reading these slaughter threads and seeing immature and rude behavior. You are ALL disrespecting yourselves when you speak about such a touchy subject by mocking each other's morals. You can't assume because someone is anti-slaughter they have a wonderful perfect life. There is absolutely NO correlation between someone's view on horse slaughter and the quality of their own life, please stop making brash assumptions. People that are pro-slaughter on here, try not to let your emotions cloud your posts. You will make more of an impact, anti or pro, if you state clear facts and do not mock each other.
> 
> Responding to the OP, there is absolutely no excuse for stealing a horse off the property to slaughter it. It has nothing to do with "OMG it's because we can't use slaughterhouses in America!" This is THEFT. There is no excuse at all for such behavior and it should be punished by law. And for reference, many people don't seem to understand that the slaughter houses are not looking for old sick horses. The kill buyers want the young, healthy horses. If you take a look at auction reports, you will see that most of the horses that go to slaughterhouses are young, untrained horses. A kill buyer does not want something that is underweight or diseased, and an older animal (regardless of species) has a lower quality of meat than a younger one. It is a breeding and training problem no matter how you cut it. Killing a young untrained horse is not "putting it out of its misery" in any way, the horse is killed because the breeder did not know what they were creating and could not train the horse, and thus decided to dump the horse at the auction. Re-opening slaughter houses in America would only get rid of these horses, it will not solve the problem. This is not a horse problem in the slightest, it is a human problem. We must educate ourselves on breeding and training, it is wrong to have horses die because of our own foolish mistakes.


what I meant by the "It's because slaughterhouses are not opened in the US" is that if they were people would not be killing them themselves.They would give them to auction and collect their money because that is the whole purpose for horse slaughter.People try to say it's because there are unwanted horses, but when it comes down to it, those horses are being killed for pure profit and not because people care about them having a quick death. I know all of the facts you just stated and it makes me sick!


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## alli09

Rissa said:


> I prefer animals over humans. Always have always will. However there is this thing called the Food Chain.
> 
> Watch the Lion King?
> 
> I wish I lived in the Sunshine and Rainbow Unicorn Dust world you live in.


funny thing you mention lions, considering they need meat to survive and humans don't.


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## CrazyH0rse

ancient **** sapiens diet was mainly meat followed by leaves. We dont eat leaves now because don't have the digestive track to get as much nutrients out of leaves as we used to. We still have problems with lactose = lactose intolerance because eating lactose is a relatively new diet pattern. Fruits and vegetabless have always been in our diet same as nuts. Some people have even considered going to an all meat diet similar to some of our ancestors, that however has certain problems. Maybe with the new types of food meat could be cut out but I seriously doubt it because of our brain size/activity. As for the issue of slaughter its not nice It should be regulated but not banned imo. If it is regulated it can be easier to notice/report abusive/inhumane practices which is better than shipping it to who knows where, where it may not be regulated.


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## alli09

CrazyH0rse said:


> ancient **** sapiens diet was mainly meat followed by leaves. We dont eat leaves now because don't have the digestive track to get as much nutrients out of leaves as we used to. We still have problems with lactose = lactose intolerance because eating lactose is a relatively new diet pattern. Fruits and vegetabless have always been in our diet same as nuts. Some people have even considered going to an all meat diet similar to some of our ancestors, that however has certain problems. Maybe with the new types of food meat could be cut out but I seriously doubt it because of our brain size/activity. As for the issue of slaughter its not nice It should be regulated but not banned imo. If it is regulated it can be easier to notice/report abusive/inhumane practices which is better than shipping it to who knows where, where it may not be regulated.


so you're saying that meat eaters are healthier than vegetarians/vegans? and that isn't going to happen, so until it does happen I think it should be banned.Horse slaughter that is.


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## CrazyH0rse

no I wasnt saying either was healthier I was stating how we developed and our relation to meat. Everyone has their choice of what they can eat neither is right or wrong.


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## MacabreMikolaj

Because naturally it's better for horses to be shipped to Mexico instead where they have zero regulations. Makes perfect sense.


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## alli09

CrazyH0rse said:


> no I wasnt saying either was healthier I was stating how we developed and our relation to meat. Everyone has their choice of what they can eat neither is right or wrong.


I don't believe animals were put on this earth to die for our taste buds.


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## MacabreMikolaj

alli09 said:


> I don't believe animals were put on this earth to die for our taste buds.


And that's your opinion. Mine is that they were. That doesn't make me sick, nor does it make you disilliusioned. It's a difference of opinion and neither is right or wrong.


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## alli09

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Because naturally it's better for horses to be shipped to Mexico instead where they have zero regulations. Makes perfect sense.


they're going to go there no matter what.It's not like when the slaughterhouses were closed there horses started going there.Those slaughterhouses were already running and receiving horses from the US.


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## alli09

MacabreMikolaj said:


> And that's your opinion. Mine is that they were. That doesn't make me sick, nor does it make you disilliusioned. It's a difference of opinion and neither is right or wrong.


prove they were.If god was full of love then they weren't put here to die.It doesn't make any sense.


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## MacabreMikolaj

Why on earth do I have to prove anything to you? Prove that they WEREN'T put here to die.

You actually want to start quoting "God"? I don't believe in God, but enough of my family is religious for me to have read the bible. And what happened in the bible? Regular sacrifices of animals to "please God". They weren't eaten, they weren't used, they were merely slaugheted and burned to "please God".

So kindly don't use that arguement against me, because according to your religious scripture, God is the most blood thirsty of us all when it comes to animals and using them.


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## CrazyH0rse

alli09 said:


> I don't believe animals were put on this earth to die for our taste buds.


Maybe/maybe not but thats how we developed.


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## alli09

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Why on earth do I have to prove anything to you? Prove that they WEREN'T put here to die.
> 
> You actually want to start quoting "God"? I don't believe in God, but enough of my family is religious for me to have read the bible. And what happened in the bible? Regular sacrifices of animals to "please God". They weren't eaten, they weren't used, they were merely slaugheted and burned to "please God".
> 
> So kindly don't use that arguement against me, because according to your religious scripture, God is the most blood thirsty of us all when it comes to animals and using them.


Ehh I'm done talking to you.Here I am trying to have a good debate with someone and you have to get all angry and mean about it.goodbye.


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## alli09

CrazyH0rse said:


> Maybe/maybe not but thats how we developed.


the way animals were killed back in the day was quick and painless.Today, they are tortured and beaten.It needs to end.


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## MacabreMikolaj

No, you're done talking to me because you have no relevant arguement. Kindly describe exactly where I was so "mean" to you. You've been rude to everyone who's opinion differs from yours.

Quick and painless? How so? Did they have guns back then? No, they had knives. So they cut their throats. Exactly the same method of treatment you're so against now.


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## alli09

no, I honestly don't want to debate with someone that talks the way you are talking to me.I'm not being 'rude' to anyone so just leave my topic now please.


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## CrazyH0rse

I will agree that the beating and tortured needs to end not really nice for any animal that can feel pain. But what about buffalo kills where they would run them off cliffs do you think they would all die right away. What about when we were hunting with clubs and spears. Those two methods probably weren't to painless. But now we should definitely be able to do it quick and painless without a doubt.


----------



## alli09

CrazyH0rse said:


> I will agree that the beating and tortured needs to end not really nice for any animal that can feel pain. But what about buffalo kills where they would run them off cliffs do you think they would all die right away. What about when we were hunting with clubs and spears. Those two methods probably weren't to painless. But now we should definitely be able to do it quick and painless without a doubt.


ok, but the methods today are way worse than those.I read a book that I got from the library called slaughterhouse and OMG! that book is enough to turn a meat lover vegetarian.


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## MacabreMikolaj

alli09 said:


> no, I honestly don't want to debate with someone that talks the way you are talking to me.I'm not being 'rude' to anyone so just leave my topic now please.


Am I the only one utterly confused here? Please explain exactly how I'm "talking to you". With truth? Or are you only angry because everytime you try to be rude to someone else and shoot down their opinions, they have a well planned and well versed arguement?

My advice would be to not start debate threads until you can back up your opinion soundly. This isn't your topic, it's a public forum. You cannot expect to make topics and have everyone agree with you, it's not the way it works. I am not trying to be rude or mean to you, I am attempting to have a debate which is what you wanted. Or does that change when you don't get your way?

Nobody here is telling you you can't feel the way you feel. Good on you for feeling that way, that's definately your perogative. But that doesn't mean you can lash out at other people and treat them like dirt for having a different opinion and expect them not to react.


----------



## CrazyH0rse

alli09 said:


> ok, but the methods today are way worse than those.I read a book that I got from the library called slaughterhouse and OMG! that book is enough to turn a meat lover vegetarian.


Right enough but if the slaughter houses were moderated/regulated rather than sent too countries where it isn't moderated or regulated could cut down on a lot of the abusive/torturing tactics used else where. I would rather see it regulated than non regulated or banned. Frankly I don't ever seeing it banned altogether as it provides jobs, food, prevents them from depleting their habitats. I wouldn't mind seeing some gradually re introduced into the wild where they were pushed out or removed if possible.


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## ThatNinjaHorse

ohhkay unsubing from this now... 

Horses will still be killed in the manner they are, and used for meat, for a few more years yet. I cant see it stopping anytime soon, if ever.
We all have our different opinions. fine.
arguing over the internet is not going to save the horseys.


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## alli09

ThatNinjaHorse said:


> ohhkay unsubing from this now...
> 
> Horses will still be killed in the manner they are, and used for meat, for a few more years yet. I cant see it stopping anytime soon, if ever.
> We all have our different opinions. fine.
> arguing over the internet is not going to save the horseys.


I know it isn't.


----------



## alli09

CrazyH0rse said:


> Right enough but if the slaughter houses were moderated/regulated rather than sent too countries where it isn't moderated or regulated could cut down on a lot of the abusive/torturing tactics used else where. I would rather see it regulated than non regulated or banned. Frankly I don't ever seeing it banned altogether as it provides jobs, food, prevents them from depleting their habitats. I wouldn't mind seeing some gradually re introduced into the wild where they were pushed out or removed if possible.


they were being treated horribly here when the slaughterhouses were open here.That's why I was talking about that book.She has interviews with people that worked at the horse slaughter plants here in the US when they were open and the things that the men were saying happened to the horses were just horrible.and It was a daily thing.


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## CrazyH0rse

alli09 said:


> they were being treated horribly here when the slaughterhouses were open here.That's why I was talking about that book.She has interviews with people that worked at the horse slaughter plants here in the US when they were open and the things that the men were saying happened to the horses were just horrible.and It was a daily thing.


but was it regulated? and if so what were the rules and consequences?


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## alli09

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Am I the only one utterly confused here? Please explain exactly how I'm "talking to you". With truth? Or are you only angry because everytime you try to be rude to someone else and shoot down their opinions, they have a well planned and well versed arguement?
> 
> My advice would be to not start debate threads until you can back up your opinion soundly. This isn't your topic, it's a public forum. You cannot expect to make topics and have everyone agree with you, it's not the way it works. I am not trying to be rude or mean to you, I am attempting to have a debate which is what you wanted. Or does that change when you don't get your way?
> 
> Nobody here is telling you you can't feel the way you feel. Good on you for feeling that way, that's definately your perogative. But that doesn't mean you can lash out at other people and treat them like dirt for having a different opinion and expect them not to react.


you're making me out to be a bad and uneducated and I am neither of those things and I make this for people that agree with me.Not for people to try to convince me that it is right.


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## alli09

CrazyH0rse said:


> but was it regulated? and if so what were the rules and consequences?


The USDA didn't care and they did nothing about it.The guys said they complained on a daily basis because the horses were coming in still alive after they were shot in the head and they were saying that they knew they were still alive because they were making noises and looking around. They were purposely torchering them when no one was around that would try to stop them.


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## CrazyH0rse

well then the USDA would have been part of the problem in that situation.


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## alli09

CrazyH0rse said:


> well then the USDA would have been part of the problem in that situation.


very much so.That is why I think the purpose of them existing is pointless.What goes on in these slaughterhouses even with cows and chickens needs to stop.


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## MacabreMikolaj

Nobody can make you look bad and uneducated except for yourself, so the problem does not lay with anyone but yourself.


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## grayshell38

So...I'm confused. At one point you said that you wanted to have a debate and then not even a page over you said that you made this thread for people who agree with you. Did you intend to debate a subject with people who are for the same thing you are or what? Because I don't see how that would be productive at all....not that this thread is really going anywhere anyway.
Also, you are saying that people are condeming your point of view when, at thesame time, you basically slap down anyone's ideas or thoughts that are for slaughter.

And now my thoughts on the real thread: I don't believe that any of us would like to find our beloved horses mutilated in the pasture. And aren't these the times when you wish that we still held capital punishment near and dear to our hearts? Of course it's sickening, and I'd like to see them really pay for what they did, but this is from an outside view. What we should do is think about it from another angle. What if these men had families to feed? What if they had a reletive in the hospital and had no other job that could pay for it? We all like to point fingers at the bad guys, but sometimes things aren't exactly as they seem. Am I saying that what they did would be alright in any of those situations? No. Am I saying that they aren't just sick, money driven people? No, but we don't know why they did it for sure. What if you weren't a horsey person and for what ever reason you get force into a situation that requires despirate measures? What sort of illegal things would you do to survive or keep your family fed? Because, remember, to non horsey people, we seem crazy for loving these animals so much. What's one or two horses to these people? ....wow that got really long really quick... eh, to sum it up, They shouldn't have done what they did, but we also don't have all of the information nescessary to start casting all that many stones......


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## wild_spot

> I make this for people that agree with me.Not for people to try to convince me that it is right.


Lol! You should put a disclaimer in the OP - "Only people who agree with me and make me feel good about my opinion allowed. Any disagreeing or debating posts, no matter how tactful, will be met with fingers in my ears and loud reciting of LA-LA-LA-LA-LA"

I will probably get the same treatment because i'm in the 'slaughter is a necessary evil' camp. 

*Just a note - No book, video or story would stop me eating meat. I like it, it is healthy, and it is a staple in my diet.*

Yep, I hate that ANY livestock is mistreated during the slaughter process. I do think that slaughter for ALL livestock should be humane, and regulated.


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## rocky pony

just don't acknowledge them alli, people like this are at a point where their opinions won't generally be changed. the best thing we can do is to put information out there so that we can direct interested parties to it, and go about life as best as we can. and it's true that for a topic like this a disclaimer would probably be a good idea, though I'm certainly not saying so in as rude a manner as the above poster.

the last thing on earth I will understand is how anyone can justify killing any innocent thing, but we have to face the fact that most people are raised to see it as totally normal and necessary and think that people who disagree are crazy or misinformed in some way. oftentimes publicly arguing with them only makes us the targets of people who want to make us out to be crazed fanatics or something, and when we allow people to see us that way they're far less likely to listen to what we have to say.


and need I remind everyone: when you allow your arguments to become personal attacks, you're only shaming yourself and your beliefs.


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## MacabreMikolaj

Good gravy. Did the asylum bus crash around here and nobody informed me? Or are we just having a regular "pot calling the kettle black" week?

rockyxpony - EVERYONE is entitled to an opinion. And quite frankly, the only attacking I see occurring, and the source of the generated rudeness is coming from the people on YOUR side of the fence. You just managed to single handedly in your post tell us we're bonkers for thinking they way we do. And yet, in my post, I told alli09 that it was good for her to have an opinion.

I am not trying to change anyone's opinion, the point I'm trying to make is that don't make up lame reasons with holes in them to support your opinion. If you don't like slaughter, fine, but don't lash out at those who have a differing opinion, and don't attempt to debate if the best you can do is "because I said so, THAT'S WHY!" That doesn't make it true. 

Nobody called you or anybody else "crazy". I am MORE then willing to listen to what someone has to say, but I am a realist and a debater by nature. If you want to present an arguement, I'm going to debate that arguement. Debates VERY rarely result in either opinion being swayed, it is merely an exchange of facts that is SUPPOSED to leave both parties feeling like maybe they learned something.

I'll never understand why people get so angry during a debate and feel it neccesary to hurl insults. It's like they're personally being attacked and become so narrow minded they just shut themselves down to outside views. I am not trying to change anyone's view, I am merely attempting to explain MY side of the view. It's not my fault if people just become angry when I do so. Don't make assumptions that everyone that disagrees with you is trying to "change" you.


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## alli09

you just basically call us crazy and we're being rude?come on now.I'm not reading all of that stuff because there is no point.I don't want my topic to close so can you please just not post anymore.

and to wild spot, that book isn't just about how the animals get treated.It is about what you're really eating.You actually think meat is healthy when it is the leading cause of heart disease? When you eat a burger you are taking in more protein than you are suppose to and that isn't good for you.If you read that book you will understand where I'm coming from.


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## alli09

rockyxpony said:


> just don't acknowledge them alli, people like this are at a point where their opinions won't generally be changed. the best thing we can do is to put information out there so that we can direct interested parties to it, and go about life as best as we can. and it's true that for a topic like this a disclaimer would probably be a good idea, though I'm certainly not saying so in as rude a manner as the above poster.
> 
> the last thing on earth I will understand is how anyone can justify killing any innocent thing, but we have to face the fact that most people are raised to see it as totally normal and necessary and think that people who disagree are crazy or misinformed in some way. oftentimes publicly arguing with them only makes us the targets of people who want to make us out to be crazed fanatics or something, and when we allow people to see us that way they're far less likely to listen to what we have to say.
> 
> 
> and need I remind everyone: when you allow your arguments to become personal attacks, you're only shaming yourself and your beliefs.


exactly why I wish they would just stop posting in this topic.Now it's probably going to be closed because they have to get there point across.


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## Speed Racer

alli09 said:


> where are you getting your facts from? If the police found out you were breeding horses and butchering them and eating them on your property that would be considered animal cruelty and you will get fined for it.


Crimsonhorse is correct.

It's _not_ illegal to have your own horses butchered for consumption. You just can't _sell_ the meat. You can give it away if you want, just can't sell it to someone else.

Horse slaughter has _not_ been banned in the U.S. The _sale_ of horsemeat for human consumption in the U.S. has. These are two completely different things.

If you antis want people to take you seriously, you need to get your facts straight; not just spout propaganda.

As far as people's pets being stolen and butchered by thieves? Yes, that's horrendous, and needs to be stopped.


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## alli09

Speed Racer said:


> Crimsonhorse is correct.
> 
> It's _not_ illegal to have your own horses butchered for consumption. You just can't _sell_ the meat. You can give it away if you want, just can't sell it to someone else.
> 
> Horse slaughter has _not_ been banned in the U.S. The _sale_ of horsemeat for human consumption in the U.S. has. These are two completely different things.
> 
> If you antis want people to take you seriously, you need to get your facts straight; not just spout propaganda.
> 
> As far as people's pets being stolen and butchered by thieves? Yes, that's horrendous, and needs to be stopped.


then why didn't the slaughter plants just stay opened? why didn't they just give the meat away if the population/neglect problem is so bad or is going to be very bad.


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## Spastic_Dove

Why would they give meat away if you can sell it for big bucks?


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## alli09

Spastic_Dove said:


> Why would they give meat away if you can sell it for big bucks?


because if it is illegal to _sell _horse meat and if, like I said, horses are going to become overpopulated and there is going to be more neglect then people should just keep them open to take care of the excess horses, but no, they have to make profit on it or it isn't going to happen.


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## Spastic_Dove

Horses already are overpopulated. 
If slaughter plants would open, there would be a supply for the demand of horse meat that would also take care of the unwanted horses. I'm all for the re-opening of slaughter houses. There would be profit, yes. The reason they closed wasn't because there wasn't a demand (profit) for horses. So there would be profit, a solution for the over-abundance of the horses, and food.


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## wild_spot

Who would work in a slaughter house for free when they could have any other job and get paid? Business's HAVE to make a profit to stay open. There are huge running costs involved in a slaughter house - Machinery, facilities, staff training, meat storage, so on and so forth. They CAN'T run without money, it's as simple as that.



> and to wild spot, that book isn't just about how the animals get treated.It is about what you're really eating.You actually think meat is healthy when it is the leading cause of heart disease? When you eat a burger you are taking in more protein than you are suppose to and that isn't good for you.If you read that book you will understand where I'm coming from.


When you show me studies, statistics, etc. then I may beleive that meat is the leading cause of heart diesease instead of genetics, unhealthy lifestyles and eating the WRONG kinds of fat. Just so you know, I don't eat takeaway processed meat. I eat the freshest meat I can buy, or a home-slaughtered cow when we can get it from my dad's boss.


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## alli09

wild_spot said:


> Who would work in a slaughter house for free when they could have any other job and get paid? Business's HAVE to make a profit to stay open. There are huge running costs involved in a slaughter house - Machinery, facilities, staff training, meat storage, so on and so forth. They CAN'T run without money, it's as simple as that.
> 
> 
> 
> When you show me studies, statistics, etc. then I may beleive that meat is the leading cause of heart diesease instead of genetics, unhealthy lifestyles and eating the WRONG kinds of fat. Just so you know, I don't eat takeaway processed meat. I eat the freshest meat I can buy, or a home-slaughtered cow when we can get it from my dad's boss.


ever heard of high cholesterol? How do you think people get it? No matter how _fresh_ your meat is, it is still going to have saturated fat.

Heart Disease - Causes of Heart Disease

here's a great video that every meat eater/dairy consumer should watch and if you still eat meat or consume dairy after you watch this then you don't care about your health(just got to youtube to watch the rest):






and after this please stay on topic from now on.


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## CrazyH0rse

everything in moderation and daily activity. There is good cholesterol and bad cholesterol. And a little bit of fat on your meat is actually a good thing.


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## alli09

CrazyH0rse said:


> everything in moderation and daily activity. There is good cholesterol and bad cholesterol. And a little bit of fat on your meat is actually a good thing.


you should watch that video.


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## CrazyH0rse

es talking about unhealthy diets thought where there are fried grease loaded foods for every meal. Im pretty sure not everyone has

B&E for every breakfast
Cheeseburgers for every lunch
Fried foods for ever supper 
Ice cream for every desert.

Believe it or not some people do eat vegetables,fruits,nuts,fibre and other foods with benefits


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## alli09

CrazyH0rse said:


> es talking about unhealthy diets thought where there are fried grease loaded foods for every meal. Im pretty sure not everyone has
> 
> B&E for every breakfast
> Cheeseburgers for every lunch
> Fried foods for ever supper
> Ice cream for every desert.
> 
> Believe it or not some people do eat vegetables,fruits,nuts,fibre and other foods with benefits


you have to watch more than just the first part.


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## CrazyH0rse

I did but he doesn't mention healthy lifestyles he just assumed we all eat crap for every meal which isn't the case. And as long as you do exercise daily and have everything in moderation it does work out better. Also the person he took blood from admitted to having a greasy food before he had his blood taken which would have skewed his blood fat content because it didnt have time to get removed out of his system. Most meals are usually three to four hours apart for when I eat so I'm not really worried also I do try to exercise daily. I'm not perfect but I do try. Yes dairy products have fat but they also have benefits such as calcium among others. He only talked about negative side effects.


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## alli09

CrazyH0rse said:


> I did but he doesn't mention healthy lifestyles he just assumed we all eat crap for every meal which isn't the case. And as long as you do exercise daily and have everything in moderation it does work out better. Also the person he took blood from admitted to having a greasy food before he had his blood taken which would have skewed his blood fat content because it didnt have time to get removed out of his system. Most meals are usually three to four hours apart for when I eat so I'm not really worried also I do try to exercise daily. I'm not perfect but I do try. Yes dairy products have fat but they also have benefits such as calcium among others. He only talked about negative side effects.


I guess what I'm getting at is if you want to be even healthier there is a way to do it.I don't want to get this closed so I'm going to stop talking all that now.


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## wild_spot

> ever heard of high cholesterol? How do you think people get it? No matter how _fresh_ your meat is, it is still going to have saturated fat.
> 
> here's a great video that every meat eater/dairy consumer should watch and *if you still eat meat or consume dairy after you watch this then you don't care about your health*(just got to youtube to watch the rest):


Lol! Why do you think vegans have to eat a poopload of supplements and STILL generally have lower bone density, among other diet caused problems and deficiencies? 

My dad has genetic heart problems; He has watched his diet ever since he was a child, and he still had to go to hospital to have a stint put in an artery that was 90% blocked.

I know TONS of people who eat meat and dairy and have perfectly healthy cholesterol levels.

I eat meat and dairy every day and have perfectly healthy cholesterol.

How many top athletes are vegans? I would be interested to find out.

Mostly people get high cholesterol levels by eating an unhealthy, unbalanced diet, and not adequatly excercising. If going vegan was a 'cure' for high cholesterol, why don't doctors recommend it?

I can't watch youtube video's on this computer, but:



> I did but *he doesn't mention healthy lifestyles he just assumed we all eat crap for every meal *which isn't the case. And as long as you do exercise daily and have everything in moderation it does work out better. Also *the person he took blood from admitted to having a greasy food before he had his blood taken which would have skewed his blood fat content* because it didnt have time to get removed out of his system.


To me it sounds like the video is a skewed, one-sided piece of anti-meat/dairy propaganda. For it to be considered a reliable source, it would need to take samples from NUMEROUS people - Those who have healthy diets, those who don't, those who eat meat and dairy, those who don't, those who excercise regularly, those who don't. Does it do this?


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## Sunny06

> just got to *youtube* to watch the rest


THIS right here is the problem. Get OFF freaking YouTube.


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## CrazyH0rse

alli09 said:


> I guess what I'm getting at is if you want to be even healthier there is a way to do it.I don't want to get this closed so I'm going to stop talking all that now.


I would say its healthier all diet patterns have their positives and negatives. thats fine if you want to stop though I can stop aswell.


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## rocky pony

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Good gravy. Did the asylum bus crash around here and nobody informed me? Or are we just having a regular "pot calling the kettle black" week?
> 
> rockyxpony - EVERYONE is entitled to an opinion. And quite frankly, the only attacking I see occurring, and the source of the generated rudeness is coming from the people on YOUR side of the fence. You just managed to single handedly in your post tell us we're bonkers for thinking they way we do. And yet, in my post, I told alli09 that it was good for her to have an opinion.
> 
> I am not trying to change anyone's opinion, the point I'm trying to make is that don't make up lame reasons with holes in them to support your opinion. If you don't like slaughter, fine, but don't lash out at those who have a differing opinion, and don't attempt to debate if the best you can do is "because I said so, THAT'S WHY!" That doesn't make it true.
> 
> Nobody called you or anybody else "crazy". I am MORE then willing to listen to what someone has to say, but I am a realist and a debater by nature. If you want to present an arguement, I'm going to debate that arguement. Debates VERY rarely result in either opinion being swayed, it is merely an exchange of facts that is SUPPOSED to leave both parties feeling like maybe they learned something.
> 
> I'll never understand why people get so angry during a debate and feel it neccesary to hurl insults. It's like they're personally being attacked and become so narrow minded they just shut themselves down to outside views. I am not trying to change anyone's view, I am merely attempting to explain MY side of the view. It's not my fault if people just become angry when I do so. Don't make assumptions that everyone that disagrees with you is trying to "change" you.


easy, tiger!
most of my post I was talking to alli ONLY, and I specifically stated that. all I said that may have been directed towards you is that it makes people disrespect your opinions when you lose yourself and start to make personal attacks, which I'm fairly sure I recall seeing..
I have insulted absolutely no one in my posts. calm down. xD maybe you should take the time to read what I say before freaking out on me.


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## Sunny06

What was the point of this thread again?


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## alli09

Sunny06 said:


> What was the point of this thread again?


check the first page.


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## alli09

Sunny06 said:


> THIS right here is the problem. Get OFF freaking YouTube.


no, that's where I get all my FACTS from.


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## eventerdrew

have not read the whole thread so I might be totally OT by this point...

there is a person about 2 miles down the highway from me that keeps his horses in deplorable conditions. They are ribby, and gangly looking and it's obvious he treats them with no respect. Last week, I finally found out why: He breeds them to eat. NOT KIDDING. He waits until the horses are 3 and then eats them. He keeps a select stallion and some broodmares. Now, I don't know if he sells them to anyone else. Believe me, this has been reported numerous times. What do they do about it? NOTHING.

I think horse slaughter is disgusting. However, I would be a hypocrite (sp) if I were to say this and then eat meat. That is the main reason I am a vegetarian. The way any sort of meat is processed and taken from an animal is absolutely revolting to me..

bleh


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## Crimsonhorse01

I don't see how that would be THE reason why they are in that condition. All the animals that I have for the dinner table are well cared for. Really all my animals. I want a nice plump healthy chicken on my plate, not a skinny unhealthy thing. ick
I'm glad you stick to what you believe in Eventerdrew.


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## MN Tigerstripes

alli09 said:


> no, that's where I get all my FACTS from.


 
No sceintific articles or journals? No unbaised information? No information that was researched by people who don't just have a bone to pick? I would say if your getting all your facts from youtube you need to cast the net a little wider. At the very least if you're getting your facts from one source you need to look very carefully at who is putting the information out there. Statistics, video, and even research can be skewed very easily by anyone to prove a point. 

That said there's plenty of actual research done that shows both the benefits and detriments to eating meat. The same goes for vegan lifestyles. If you actually read the research that has been done the key thing to a healthy body is moderation in everything.


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## alli09

Please close this topic!


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## eventerdrew

yeah I think the reason they are skinny is because he has about five horses per acre at minimum. But you are right, it doesn't make sense that he is keeping them skinny for consumption. I think that is just the way it worked out with the overcrowded pastures


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## Rissa

alli09 said:


> ok, but the methods today are way worse than those.I read a book that I got from the library called slaughterhouse and OMG! that book is enough to turn a meat lover vegetarian.


I am just curious how you know this?

How old are you? Have you been around for the last 600 years? Did you take a tally of how animals were killed for food all over the world 150 years ago and that's what you're comparing things to?

I'm so confused by nearly everything you say.

If you're like twelve then I'm REALLY sorry about the harshness and I will understand your points of view so much better.


Also I'm very picky about the propaganda I read. Some people are easy to sway. Ask Goebbels. Almost nearly off topic but every time you exclaim to READ SLAUGHTERHOUSE I think Slaughterhouse Five. [email protected]

So it goes.




alli09 said:


> then why didn't the slaughter plants just stay opened? why didn't they just give the meat away if the population/neglect problem is so bad or is going to be very bad.



Uhh. Because if they ran a factory like that and GAVE the meat away how would they pay the employees? Or you know, utilities?


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## Rissa

woops double post.


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## lillie

havent read every single post on this, so may be repeating, but surely everyone can at least agree that there needs to be drastic steps taken to ensure that transportation handling and the entire process is is handled as humanely and stress free as poossible? what concerns me is that some of the posts i have read seem to suggest that if it is ok to, in thier opinion, to eat horse meat, then it is best not to question too closely the method of achieving "processing" as it is called- in my opinion that is an inhumane and heartless term in itself.- no horse or any other animal should have to be subjected to a long journey to another country or even across a long distance, and although i personally think horse meat should be banned, as they such a sensitive and intelligent animal, and should not be used in this way, i think that if it is not banned then it is far preferable to greatly tighten up every aspect of the industry. and i want to state that in my opinion, it is deplorable and inexcuseable to send a horse which has given an owner service throughout its life, to a slaughterhouse, to end its days. because it can be done at home, humanely. unfortuneately there are some people who want to get the last few bucks... i am sorry if thats not what people want to hear, or it makes people uncomfortable, or defensive, or agressive, but if that is the case, perhaps those people should be questioning there own beliefs, and not the people who are brave enough to speak out againgst something they strongly think is wrong. i perosnally applaud anyone who speaks out on the behalf of the welfare of horses- any horse, bred for whatever purpose, is deserving of compassion and integrity of handling, throughout its life, and to say or act otherwise is wrong.


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## MN Tigerstripes

Lillie - I think everyone agrees that there is always room for improvement in the process of slaughter (or raising) of any livestock. 

Some of us seem to think that re-opening slaughter houses is good for various reasons: give final value to horses, feed people, reduce unwanted horse population, and some people/cultures just like the taste of horse. 

Others seem to think that if you consider horse slaughter something that should be re-opened in the US you're a terrible person who doesn't care about horses. 

Would I send my horses to slaughter? No way. If something catastrophic happened and I couldn't feed my family, would I eat my horse? Yup (my neice's life is more important IMHO). If someone else likes horse meat and wants to obtain it should they be able to do so? Yes, IMHO anyways. I'm not talking about the FL cases where people are butchering someone else's horse w/o permission. That's just wrong on a lot of levels. But they should be able to go to the grocery store and buy a horse steak.


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## Sunny06

alli09 said:


> Please close this topic!


Like I said. No REAL information. Now OP's bailing out because she sees no way to prove her 'points'.

I'll listen to you if you get off YouTube, and do some REAL research. Then I might start to listen.

Until then. Have a fun time.


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## lillie

mntigerstripes, i think we probably agree on this , but one of the points i was making is that a lot of people would prefer to forget the issues exsist, or evade, or even verbally attack it because it makes them feel uncomfortable. i am sure we agree on most points, but i do not think, as a so-called civilized species, that we can justify the methods used in procuring (any) meat for the table. and i particularily dont think that we need to eat horsemeat, in a country where other more traditionally farmed livestock ( another discussion) is available. the horse as an animal has helped mankind, throughout history, in so many ways, and deserves more from us, than to become another dish for a palate that ussually eats way too much meat anyway, and for that reason, i do not think i would never want to see horsemeat available in a grocery store or butchers shop. however, i agree; if it was the case that a cultural people have eaten horsemeat throughout history, then it would probably be better to have it legal, for the reasons you state. my own personal view though, is that human nature being what it is; to put more value on horsemeat would only encourage more people to "process" it, with all of the ussual problems, welfare issues and transportation issues. but i do have to say, in the event of a catastrhophe, i would not be eating my horses, anymore than i would consider eating my best friend; i think they would be of far more benefit to me alive ie cultivating some crops, transporting material to make a shelter, etc... because the fact is, we can easily survive without meat.


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## 3neighs

The OP has suggested the thread be closed~


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