# Impressive bloodlines



## hiwaythreetwenty (Oct 2, 2009)

From my understanding Impressive line was really big in the halter classes. I do believe that others had also done some western pleasure. But that is about all I know other then the Impressive line has been inbred so much that you have to watch for HYPP and that is a huge debatable issue that we probably don't want to get into.


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## sillybunny11486 (Oct 2, 2009)

impressive, was just that a very impressive chestnut qh. lol. google him


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## QHChik (Jun 26, 2009)

hiwaythreetwenty said:


> But that is about all I know other then the Impressive line has been inbred so much that you have to watch for HYPP and that is a huge debatable issue that we probably don't want to get into.


Inbreeding is not what caused HYPP. A genetic mutation is what caused HYPP. This is why we don't want to get into it, because people don't always know what they are talking about.

Not to sound nasty, of course, just a soap box.


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## FoxTrottrGrl (Oct 21, 2009)

Impressive was a major halter sire. Nobody knew he had the genetic mutation causing HYPP, so he had a lot of mares bred to him - he's probably one of, if not the, top halter stallions of all time, and up with the top stallions of all time. Of course, it wasn't until much later that they realized his descendents had inherited the genetic mutation. There was no more inbreeding to Impressive than there was to Doc Bar, King, Wimpy, or any other major Quarter Horse sire.


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## hiwaythreetwenty (Oct 2, 2009)

That is why I said from what I understand. I don't follow quarter horses that closely so I stated what I have been told. From what the people in my area explain is that Impressive was linebreed so much (breeding daughters to uncles or sons to aunts) that the mutation was caused. But again I said it has always been a debatable issue and I don't know all the facts and I wasn't try to say I do. That was what I heard and from my understanding was Impressive was a huge halter horse which was what the question was.


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## QHChik (Jun 26, 2009)

I do follow quarter horses and have had halter horses (all Impressive decedents). I completely agree that there has been inbreeding but also agree with the previous poster who stated that it wasn't more prevalent there than in any other discipline. Linebreeding, or extreme inbreeding, did not cause HYPP. It was a genetic mutation.


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## FoxTrottrGrl (Oct 21, 2009)

hiwaythreetwenty said:


> From what the people in my area explain is that Impressive was linebreed so much (breeding daughters to uncles or sons to aunts) that the mutation was caused.


Well, not so much caused as intensified. But yeah, same thing happens in other breeds - a lot of Missouri Fox Trotters are ridiculously inbred to Missouri Traveler E., who was himself inbred (his sire was bred to his own dam).


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## hiwaythreetwenty (Oct 2, 2009)

Again I didn't mean for this to become the topic, PecosGoldenChance wanted to know what Impressive was bred for so I apologize for even bringing it up, it is a very debatable issue and I have no doubt that you know more on it then I do. So Back to topic what was the Impressive line bred for - halter, westen etc.


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## FoxTrottrGrl (Oct 21, 2009)

Sorry, I'm not trying to turn it into a debate - just trying to shed some clarification. And I know I'm really new here, but I fail to see how it could become a debate...? We know HYPP exists. We know it links back to Impressive. We know that inbreeding occurred (as it does in every breed - see previously mentioned Missouri Fox Trotters, or look at the popular sires for any breed out there). Yes, people have their own views over how good or bad inbreeding is, but that's not even part of the discussion here - it's simply a statement that inbreeding occurred. 
Besides, it was already mentioned that Impressive was a halter sire.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Impressive was a halter horse. He is actually what defined the breed characteristics of today. He was... Impressive to say the least. He had a lot of western pleasure horses in his prodigy as well. 

Inbreeding is NOT the correct word, line breeding is the correct term.

HYPP was a genetic mutation. It was not CAUSED by anything that is known. It was a genetic mutation in IMPRESSIVE. That is why it traces back to him. It began with him. The fact that his lines were so widely bred is the reason it spread. The fact that it took YEARS to trace it back to him is why it was so widely spread and the fact that it took many MANY more years for people to stop PURPOSELY breeding horses that carried the gene because it ended with desirable results in the halter arena is why it spread. There are OVER 100,000 horses with Impressive in their blood today.

Sorr about the rant but I'm passionate about setting the record straight when it comes to that horse. I hate that he is remembered only for the bad.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Like everyone said, he was most famous in halter classes. But, my mare is Impressive's granddaughter, and she always did terrible in halter. If she wasn't trained in WP, she would have been much better suited for dressage and jumping. =]


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## PechosGoldenChance (Aug 23, 2009)

hiwaythreetwenty: its ok lol i kno it is a very disputed subject. Thank you for your advice (and everyone else also). I tried looking it up on google and i got all this bs about the hypp thing so i just thought i'd ask on here. But yea she is a very beautiful chestnut qh and her butt is nice and big too, she is the largest horse in our barn at the moment.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Impressive was originally bred to be a race horse but for many reasons like his size lack of speed and such he was used as a halter horse and was very good at it. So now what you get from that line is of coarse your halter horses but they are also very well rounded horses when crossed correctly on other lines and Impressive bred horses have done well in many many other evens out side the halter ring.


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## Rissa (Feb 10, 2009)




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## FoxTrottrGrl (Oct 21, 2009)

Hmm...think they're mixing steroids into the feed?

That just looks freakishly unnatural to me.


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## Crimsonhorse01 (Sep 8, 2009)

It looks photoshopped to me. :S The large picture of Im kiddin doesnt look like the real looking horse on the right corner.


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## FoxTrottrGrl (Oct 21, 2009)

Naw, the socks are right. But not a great job of merging that picture into the ad.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

They aren't photoshopped. They do so much to build them up like that and by the time they are done, the horses can't even move nicely. Plus, I'm not positive but I think they both carry the gene don't they?


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## Aoi Miku (Sep 27, 2009)

Them stallions are actually making me feel ill.
Is it muscle or fat?


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Muscle. They are nephews to the great Arnold Schwartzenegger...


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## ridesapaintedpony (Apr 14, 2009)

farmpony84 said:


> Inbreeding is NOT the correct word, line breeding is the correct term.


It depends on what breeding you're talking about. Linebreeding is a breeding based on certain animal(s) in the pedigree. Inbreeding is breeding close relatives such as father/daughter, mother/son, brother/sister.

I'm not getting into the Impressive debate since I don't know much about it, but wanted to clear up the terms used anyway.


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## ridesapaintedpony (Apr 14, 2009)

Rissa said:


>


Oh ick!


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## equus717 (Aug 20, 2009)

I have an Impressive daughter. She is a registered paint though. But Impressive is on her papers. She would of made a great halter horse if it wasn't for her dropped hip. The original owners of her were going to put her down after she broke her hip by another horse. My vet asked the owners if she could have her and she would fix her hip. Looking at her you can't tell that she has a dropped hip until she is right on you but she runs and plays just like any other horse. We bred her to our paint stud and she is due to foal in Feb. I can't wait to see the foal and I will probably show the foal in halter as well. Maybe this place will help me to come up with some names for the foal.


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## APHA MOMMA (Jul 10, 2009)

My 2 1/2 yr old gelding I have now has Impressive bloodlines. But it is his Great x4 Grandfather. Every horse I have met that has Impressive lines have had such a wonderful all around temperment. With my gelding, I can't expect really to do gymkhana or any speed events, lol, just because he is sooo easy going, but I know he would maybe do good in halter if I ever got the nerve to show. If you want to know more information on "Impressive" himself here is some right here from www.allbreedpedigree.com.
*****
*Color*: sor
*Height*: 15.1

#0767246

HYPP N/H 
H-48 
World Champion Halter 
Sire Of: World Champion Halter horses 
#4 AQHA All-time leading sire by # of registered progeny 
2,250 Registered Foals 
Total Points Earned: 24,602.5 
AQHA Halter List: #9 All-time leading sire of Halter ROM qualifiers (43) 
AQHA Performance List: #19 All-time leading sire of Performance ROM qualifiers (89) 
#13 All-time leading sire of AQHA Champions (21) 
Foaled in Oklahoma, April 15th 1969. 
Deceased 1995 at 26 years of age. 
The genetic disease Hyperkalemic Periodic Paralysis (HYPP) has been traced back to this horse. 
For more info: AQHA
AQHA - HYPP INFORMATION
*****

Also here is a GREAT website if you would love to see more about Impressive himself and information on HYPP, it even has the myths and facts of it. 
Impressive


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## Kentucky (Aug 2, 2008)

QHChik said:


> I do follow quarter horses and have had halter horses (all Impressive decedents). I completely agree that there has been inbreeding but also agree with the previous poster who stated that it wasn't more prevalent there than in any other discipline. Linebreeding, or extreme inbreeding, did not cause HYPP. It was a genetic mutation.


I believe it was a gentetic mutation and have no reason not to believe it. But I feel the inbreeding and/ or linebreeding make it worse and show up more common today. Just becuase he was a great halter horse. 



Rissa said:


>


The stallions are why I am not a fan of halter horses in general and Impressive breed ones exspecially. I am sure there are halter horses and maybe even some of them sired by Impressive that don't look llike that


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## APHA MOMMA (Jul 10, 2009)

Only from what I have been reading, I believe that horses that look more cut or look like that are HyPP Positive, not ALL the IMPRESSIVE lines. This is something that I found off of a website.

*Myth*:* You can tell a positive horse by looking at it.*

*Fact*: HyPP is a disease that can only be proven through genetic testing. *HyPP does not increase muscle mass, but constant electrical firing in the muscles gives the muscles a hightly defined cut that horses without HyPP have to be worked through exercise to obtain.* The only outward signs of HyPP are seen during an attack episode. A horse who is not having an episode, will look like any normal horse. 

I bolded the part that reminded me of how cut these horses were and it just makes me wonder if they are HyPP positive.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

Here is our Impressive bred mare (N/N) and she is indeed _very_ stocky and big muscled. We don't show, but her sister has done very well in halter ...but... it very much depends on the judges. Some judges *love* the look and some *hate* it...calling them fat :-(
For our off trail riding, though, you can't beat her for getting you up a steep hill through the woods....she is one strong girl.


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## Rissa (Feb 10, 2009)

The backgrounds are fake. The tail on the dun stallion is fake. Other than that? They're real.

To those who think they are not real.

Here is that first horse, the Dun one at liberty.

Or whatever you call this. It's painful to watch this hulk stumble and drag himself around.

KIDS CLASSIC STYLE

How majestic....


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

Rissa said:


> To those who think they are not real.
> 
> Here is that first horse, the Dun one at liberty.
> 
> ...


1800 lbs !!! I thought our mare was a tank at 1100 lbs !


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## ridesapaintedpony (Apr 14, 2009)

Rissa said:


> The backgrounds are fake. The tail on the dun stallion is fake. Other than that? They're real.
> 
> To those who think they are not real.
> 
> ...


That was painful to watch.


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## Rissa (Feb 10, 2009)

Hard to believe he's so much bigger than Keegan.

In height and weight. 



This girl is five foot five.


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## FoxTrottrGrl (Oct 21, 2009)

Wow, that looked awful. Seriously, how can they think a horse that muscle-bound looks good? And 1800 pounds?! For a QUARTER HORSE?! I feel sorry for the poor guy.
And yeah, the backgrounds are often Photoshopped in. Not to mention the fact that they cut off half his hooves. Well, it's either a bad chop-job on Photoshop, or they desperately need a new farrier.


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## Eastowest (Mar 26, 2009)

Sometimes people forget that Impressive was sired by a Thoroughbred and his dam was over 1/2 Thoroughbred as well. He was bred to be an athlete, and many of his descendants are athletes-- its just that the "look" he passed forward was so distinctive and prepotent that more of his offspring were steered into Halter "careers". Impressive himself was not a behemoth-- only a bit over 15 hands, and although musclular, framed similarly to and not really much heavier-made than some of his TB ancestors-- 

Impressive--























Impressive's Thoroughbred sire, Lucky Bar,










Impressive's maternal grandsire, the Thoroughbred Lightning Bar,










Three Bars, Thoroughbred sire who appears three times in Impressive's pedigree (grandsire, great grandsire, and great-great-grandsire-- Three Bars was the sire to both Lucky Bar and Lightning Bar above)--

















Impressive's AQHA ancestors were no "lightweights" either--

Maternal grandsire to Impressive's dam, Sugar Bars (the thrid son of Three Bars in Impressive's pedigree)









More distant maternal relative Leo,









And Leo's sire Joe Reed II--


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

This is the look that I love...


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## APHA MOMMA (Jul 10, 2009)

Yes, I don't like them overly stocky like that dun, but Impressive and his sire and grandsires are AWESOME. I just love a heavy built horse, lol. Impressive was a very "impressive" looking QH.


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## qtrhrsecrazy (Aug 2, 2009)

I love that look too of the foundation QH's. Hoping someone knows this answer... I have heard that in the not so far future, that AQHA is to stop registering Impressive bred horses?


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

NO not Impressive bred horses but H/H horses are no longer eligible for registration. Now they are going after the N/H horses so as long as the horse is N/N it can be registered.


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## Kentucky (Aug 2, 2008)

nrhareiner said:


> NO not Impressive bred horses but H/H horses are no longer eligible for registration. Now they are going after the N/H horses so as long as the horse is N/N it can be registered.


 
Hopefully that will remove HYPP out of the gene pool.


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## Gidji (Dec 19, 2008)

My horse has Impressive bloodlines. Its his 3x great grandsire, I think. His great great grandsire is Noble Tradition and someone told me that was his best foal. *Is that true?*
My boy, Ricky, is tall and a little bit stocky. He stands at 14.1 and he's only a yearling.
He's negative for HYPP, but call me paranoid every time he shakes or shivers, I always watch him to make sure it stops.
Deposition Quarter Horse
There's his pedigree, sorry to hi-jack but do those Impressive lines carry a lot of HYPP?


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## Macslady (Oct 23, 2009)

I think the thing that most people forget is the fact that Impressive is not the only horse with hypp anymore. As with anything like herda, hypp, owls, etc. we must all be cautious buyers and make sure what we are buying is clean from these genetic defects in order to wipe them out of the respective breeds. Genetics are a funny thing to deal with, mutations are the way mother nature keeps everything in line. Nowadays he wouldn't be registerable unless he was gelded. Many N/H horses can be kept healthy without the muscle shivers with the right feed. On another forum I am on there is an owner that shows many Impressive horses they show and they know how to feed to avoid any of the problems. I personally have had 3 Impressive bred mares, all N/N. Two were sold when we changed to gaited horses, but we still have 1. They are the best minded most willing horses I have ever owned. And everyone has that gorgeous big behind that makes mine look small.:wink:


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## PechosGoldenChance (Aug 23, 2009)

I like you!! My impressive mare is amazing too, and she learns so quickly and her temperment is amazing!! I do have to say that she is kinda spooky, i was riding her bareback yesterday and we were going around a barrel right by the woodline and a stick cracked and she jumped around and stuff, but the good thing was that she calmed down fast, and i didnt fall off lol. I'm going to start working on her with controlling her emotions a little bit, but for me not working with her on that at all, she does pretty good.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Rissa said:


> The backgrounds are fake. The tail on the dun stallion is fake. Other than that? They're real.
> 
> To those who think they are not real.
> 
> ...


Do they consider that horse sound? He moves so....strangely. 
It kind of reminds me of a toddler with a large load in its diaper trying to run.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Mr Yella fella is a really big halter horse out of impressive. He looks like he could actually make a little western pleasure pony....

Fossil Gate Farms - MR YELLA FELLA


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## QHChik (Jun 26, 2009)

Gidji said:


> He's negative for HYPP, but call me paranoid every time he shakes or shivers, I always watch him to make sure it stops.
> quote]
> 
> 
> As long as he is N/N, then you should never be concerned about him having an attack. If he is N/N, then he doesn't carry any of the defect.


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## Void (Jun 26, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Do they consider that horse sound? He moves so....strangely.
> It kind of reminds me of a toddler with a large load in its diaper trying to run.


I recently got back from and English/Western show and the Western horses went around like the one in the video and it looked so weird, like every horse in the ring was lame.... but apparently its okay and normal and they pin them.

I think what is hilarious was in the warmup ring my horse trotted faster (collected trot) then most of the horses could canter. Come on AQHA foster some true gaits!


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Kentucky said:


> Hopefully that will remove HYPP out of the gene pool.



No it will not remove anything. All it will do is have more un papered horses that no one knows are N/H b/c they can not be registered. Now maybe 20+ years there will be no more N/H horses registered in AQHA but Hypp will still be around. It is just that no one will know as they will be grade horses with no pedigree to check.

Also APHA and APPYs do not require testing. So it will still be in those breeds.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Macslady said:


> I think the thing that most people forget is the fact that Impressive is not the only horse with hypp anymore. As with anything like herda, hypp, owls, etc. we must all be cautious buyers and make sure what we are buying is clean from these genetic defects in order to wipe them out of the respective breeds. Genetics are a funny thing to deal with, mutations are the way mother nature keeps everything in line. Nowadays he wouldn't be registerable unless he was gelded. Many N/H horses can be kept healthy without the muscle shivers with the right feed. On another forum I am on there is an owner that shows many Impressive horses they show and they know how to feed to avoid any of the problems. I personally have had 3 Impressive bred mares, all N/N. Two were sold when we changed to gaited horses, but we still have 1. They are the best minded most willing horses I have ever owned. And everyone has that gorgeous big behind that makes mine look small.:wink:


What other line has HyPP??? To this date the only line that has been found to carry HyPP is the Impressive line.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

nrhareiner said:


> What other line has HyPP??? To this date the only line that has been found to carry HyPP is the Impressive line.


It is linked directly to Impressive and only to Impressive.

I copied this info directly from the AQHA site for those interested.








*A LETTER FROM BILL BREWER*
Dear American Quarter Horse Enthusiast, 
For some time now, you have probably heard, or had first-hand knowledge, of the condition known as hyperkalemic periodic paralysis (HYPP). This condition is characterized by intermittent episodes of muscle tremors (shaking or trembling, weaknesses and/or collapse). 
At the 1996 AQHA Convention in Seattle, Washington, the AQHA Board of Directors approved some rules recommended by the AQHA Stud Book and Registration Committee and approved by the Board of Directors. Among the changes was a rule requiring disclosure of HYPP status on the registration certificates of foals born on or after January 1, 1998, which descend from any bloodline determined to carry the HYPP gene. 
Beginning with the 1997 AQHA Official Handbook, HYPP is in rule 205 among conditions commonly considered undesirable traits or genetic defects, such as parrot mouth and cryptorchidism. These conditions do not prevent a horse from being used as breeding stock or from participating in AQHA-approved events, subject to rules of the individual event. 
Beginning with 1998 foals, the rule requires the following notification to be placed on the registration certificates of foals descending from any bloodline determined to carry the HYPP gene:
"This horse has an ancestor known to carry HYPP, designated under AQHA rules as a genetic defect, AQHA recommends testing to confirm presence or absence of this gene."
Facts about HYPP have been gained through research projects funded in part by AQHA, through the University of California, Davis and the University of Pennsylvania. The first report, from Drs. Sharon Spier and Gary Carlson of U.C. Davis, was delivered to AQHA in the summer 1992, and published in-full in the September 1992 issue of The Quarter Horse Journal. As additional information has been made available, AQHA has promptly published it. I invite you to refer to [the Publications] page for a list of AQHA publications and others which contain information about HYPP. 
AQHA has a duty to its members and American Quarter Horse owners to keep them abreast of current information on HYPP, and indeed, all health matters, so that they may make informed decisions concerning their equine programs. 
Respectfully,
Bill Brewer
AQHA Executive Vice President


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

That's an old letter, but it was the start of some good changes in AQHA.

Here are some more rule changes that came around the 2003 time frame:

1) Foals of 2006 and later tracing to the stallion Impressive will be required to be parentage verified and tested for HYPP. 
2) Foals of 2006 and later testing positive for HYPP (H/H) will not be eligible for registration with AQHA. 
3) Foals of 2024 and later testing positive for HYPP (N/H) will not be eligible for registration with AQHA. 
In addition, the subcommittee supported a recommendation made by the executive committee to commence an education and awareness campaign informing the membership of the effects of HYPP. 


AQHA is trying to fix things, but it's been slow.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

*AQHA's HYPP FACT SHEET*
• Hyperkalemic periodic paralysis (HYPP) is an inherited disease that leads to uncontrolled muscle twitching or profound muscle weakness, and in severe cases, may lead to collapse and/or death.
• HYPP is listed as a genetic defect in AQHA's rules, along with Parrot Mouth and Cryptorchid conditions.
• To date, HYPP only has been traced to descendants of IMPRESSIVE, #0767246.
• Having negative (N/N) results on file may prevent a horse's offspring from being tested.
• Foals born in 1998 and later and tracing to IMPRESSIVE will have a statement placed on their Certificates of Registration that recommends testing for the condition unless test results indicating the foal is negative (N/N) are on file with AQHA.
• AQHA will test any foals who are required to be parentage verified and who trace to IMPRESSIVE for HYPP prior to them being registered. This testing will be performed with the same DNA sample submitted to the laboratory for parentage verification.
• AQHA will accept HYPP test results only if performed through a licensed laboratory. These currently include:
Veterinary Genetics Lab at University of California at Davis 
Shelterwood Laboratory at Carthage, Texas
Vita-Tech Canada Inc., Markham, Ontario 
NSW Agriculture in Australia
Veterinary Diagonostics Center, Fairfield, Ohio, (800) 625-0874
Stormont Labs, Woodland, California, (916) 661-3078
Gene Check, Inc., Ft. Collins, Colorado, (940) 472-9951
Maxxam Laboratory at Guelph, Ontario
Other laboratories are in the process of being licensed.
• Beginning with the 2007 foals, all Impressive progeny are required to be parentage verified and HYPP tested subject to the conditions listed in rule 205. Any that test H/H will not be eligible for registration.
• Possible results of HYPP testing are N/N, N/H and H/H.
HYPP is inherited as a dominant trait, which means a heterozygous (N/H) stallion or mare bred to a normal (N/N) horse will result in approximately half of the offspring being affected and half being normal. The rare homozygote (H/H) usually is severely affected with the disease and will pass the gene to its offspring 100 percent of the time. 
•HYPP can be treated through diet and medication in most cases.
• AQHA Testing Kits can be ordered for $40.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

farmpony84 said:


> It is linked directly to Impressive and only to Impressive.
> 
> I copied this info directly from the AQHA site for those interested.
> 
> ...


Yes I know the question was posted to the person who said that Impressive was not the only horse with HyPP any more. I want to know where they got this info and what other horses have HyPP.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I personally love the Impressive line. I don't like the horses who are built like pit-bulls (of any lineage) but the original Impressive lines, the ones bred for using, are the ones that I love. I have a grandson of Impressive that was a phenomenal roping horse and he also won points in WP, reining, and halter. However, he also had the more "using friendly" build; big but not bulky. Much of this was due to his mom and the build that she got from Hy Diamond (her grandsire). Every Impressive horse that I have ever been around was an easily trained, level headed, nice to ride horse.

I am with Farmpony, I hate to see people remember such a magnificent stud for something that he had absolutely no control over. It is not his fault that he was the progenator of a terrible disease. I thoroughly hate when people say that "I hate Impressive bred horses because of HYPP". There are just as many Impressive horses out there that are N/N as there are positive ones. That would be like saying that I hate Greg Louganis because he had HIV and it didn't matter that he won back to back Olympic titles.

Hate the disease and those that enable it, don't hate the ones who carry it from no fault of their own.


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## QHChik (Jun 26, 2009)

There is no other line that has HYPP. It was a genetic defect in Impressive, therefore, no horse without him in their lineage will have HYPP. Its not possible.

_•HYPP can be treated through diet and medication in most cases._
I really like that this point is mentioned. It is absolutely true. I have had two N/H horses and neither was ever on pills and neither has had an attack. I was never concerned about taking either horse anywhere (shows, etc) because they were not any trouble. They were pictures of health. Strong, good footed, and sound. Neither horse ever shook, seized, or had tremors.


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## BaliDoll (Sep 21, 2009)

I know about HYPP, but I alway wondered... Why was the Impressive line THE ONLY ONE to ever have it? How'd he get it?! Are there other horses that HAVE the illness just not QH's? I understand it's a genetic disease and all, but I am just wondering how it all started... I just realized I never knew Impressive was the only QH with it.


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## southerncowgirl93 (Feb 5, 2009)

I don't like the ones that look like pit-bulls as stated earlier. They are so....gross...its just unnatural.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

It is a genetic mutation. They happen all the time every time it splits and reproduces itself there is a chance of a mutation a chance they will not line up correctly. That is the simple answer it is obviously more complicated but I do not feel like getting into all of that. However most of them you would never know or see. It just happens that this one happen is such a way that it only takes 1 copy to present itself and with 2 copys makes it worse.


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## redneckprincess70 (May 5, 2009)

I was told when I bought Kay that she is a granddaughter to Impressive. Also, my Aunt has a gelding from the Impressive line. Alot of horses around the Indiana, Ohio, Kentucky area are out of this line. (So I've heard)


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## Kentucky (Aug 2, 2008)

redneckprincess70 said:


> I was told when I bought Kay that she is a granddaughter to Impressive. Also, my Aunt has a gelding from the Impressive line. Alot of horses around the Indiana, Ohio, Kentucky area are out of this line. (So I've heard)


 
All you have to do is look at the studs horses adds in Kentucky to confirm that.


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## BaliDoll (Sep 21, 2009)

Well if it's a genetic mutation, why is Impressive's line the only one to ever have it? In all the years and horses that have been bred in AQHA, and even APHA, how is it that we've never labeled another stallion as "the carrier" of it? Have other lines had it?

Sorry if I am not making myself clear, I don't know how to really phrase it I guess!


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## SmoothTrails (Oct 1, 2009)

BaliDoll said:


> Well if it's a genetic mutation, why is Impressive's line the only one to ever have it? In all the years and horses that have been bred in AQHA, and even APHA, how is it that we've never labeled another stallion as "the carrier" of it? Have other lines had it?
> 
> Sorry if I am not making myself clear, I don't know how to really phrase it I guess!


Impressive is the one that had the genetic mutation, therefore only his line carries the mutation.


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## Void (Jun 26, 2009)

BaliDoll said:


> Well if it's a genetic mutation, why is Impressive's line the only one to ever have it? In all the years and horses that have been bred in AQHA, and even APHA, how is it that we've never labeled another stallion as "the carrier" of it? Have other lines had it?
> 
> Sorry if I am not making myself clear, I don't know how to really phrase it I guess!


I'm sorry, the way you phrase it makes it sound equivalent to "If green eyes in people are a genetic mutation how come everyone doesn't have green eyes"

Genetics is a lottery. The possible combinations of hereditary material are endless (for a none scientific researcher's mind to comprehend anyways). The fact is cells in your body are reproducing all the time i.e. skin, hair, etc. All it takes is for one to "zip up" slightly off and viola you have cancer. But really how many times out of 10 would you think that would be?

So to me considering how many hundreds of years we've been breeding horses its no surprise that only 1 stallion out of the thousands of thousands of QH horses and horses to influence QH breeding is the only one with this disease.


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## tazassape (Oct 8, 2008)

There was no linebreeding, inbreeding in Impressive! :wink:


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## Void (Jun 26, 2009)

tazassape said:


> There was no linebreeding, inbreeding in Impressive! :wink:


Impressive has Three Bars 3x in his pedigree

Impressive Quarter Horse


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Yep, if you look back 9 generations on his pedigree, this is how many times he has certain horses on there.

Three Bars x 3
Ultimus x 5
Sandfly x 6
Domino x 11
Isonomy x 10
Doncaster x 9
Hermit x 9


Yeah, lots of line breeding there.


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## tazassape (Oct 8, 2008)

tazassape said:


> There was no linebreeding, inbreeding in Impressive! :wink:


This was meant to be a joke. See the wink?


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## BaliDoll (Sep 21, 2009)

No no no, I understand it's a genetic mutation, it's just weird to me that in all of the AQHA horses that have been bred he and his line are the only ones to have HYPP. It just seems strange to me... but I guess I get it.
I have a genetic disease myself that only four other people in the world have had to the extent I have it, so I *do* understand rare things, but it's just interesting to me...
Are there other breeds that have HYPP lines?


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## SmoothTrails (Oct 1, 2009)

BaliDoll said:


> No no no, I understand it's a genetic mutation, it's just weird to me that in all of the AQHA horses that have been bred he and his line are the only ones to have HYPP. It just seems strange to me... but I guess I get it.
> I have a genetic disease myself that only four other people in the world have had to the extent I have it, so I *do* understand rare things, but it's just interesting to me...
> Are there other breeds that have HYPP lines?


No, because Impressive was the only horse with the mutation that started HYPP, only horses out of his line can have it. All the foals he sired would be H/N, so they would only be carriers. When those horses were bred they made more carriers, and when horses who were cousins, uncles, etc. were bred they made H/H horses. This was not caught for many years because they didn't realize that Impressive had a genetic mutation.

This is why only horses that trace their line back to Impressive can have HYPP.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I think she's saying it's "strange" that it only happened to that one horse in particular... and I see her point, it is wierd that he's the only horse in the world that the genetic mutation happened to... and the funny thing is, had he been just a plain old average horse, he'd have been gelded and no one would ever have known... or if he had merely been a mediocre stud, his breeding would have been so much smaller and the spread not so much... it would have been something people rarely heard of... but since he was one of the great horses of halter, and he was so famous and built so well... and bred so much... HYPP is huge... I can see the use of the word... "strange"... 

luck of the draw?


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

SmoothTrails said:


> No, because Impressive was the only horse with the mutation that started HYPP, only horses out of his line can have it. All the foals he sired would be H/N,


No actually only about 50% of Impressives get would be N/H and the other where N/N


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## SmoothTrails (Oct 1, 2009)

nrhareiner said:


> No actually only about 50% of Impressives get would be N/H and the other where N/N


sorry I forgot that only one mutation would make him N/H.  you're right


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## SmoothTrails (Oct 1, 2009)

farmpony84 said:


> I think she's saying it's "strange" that it only happened to that one horse in particular... and I see her point, it is wierd that he's the only horse in the world that the genetic mutation happened to... and the funny thing is, had he been just a plain old average horse, he'd have been gelded and no one would ever have known... or if he had merely been a mediocre stud, his breeding would have been so much smaller and the spread not so much... it would have been something people rarely heard of... but since he was one of the great horses of halter, and he was so famous and built so well... and bred so much... HYPP is huge... I can see the use of the word... "strange"...
> 
> luck of the draw?


Ok I understand what you mean now.  sorry. It is, but I guess since the rate of mutation is so low anyways, and there are so many possible mutations he just got a strange one.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

farmpony84 said:


> ...and the funny thing is, had he been just a plain old average horse, he'd have been gelded and no one would ever have known... or if he had merely been a mediocre stud, his breeding would have been so much smaller and the spread not so much... it would have been something people rarely heard of...


I think this is a good point. I have to think it's certainly possible that any number of other non Impressive horses have had/have HYPP, and... just like in people, there are certainly many, many other 'bad' genetic mutations lurking around out there.


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## BaliDoll (Sep 21, 2009)

farmpony84 said:


> I think she's saying it's "strange" that it only happened to that one horse in particular... and I see her point, it is wierd that he's the only horse in the world that the genetic mutation happened to... and the funny thing is, had he been just a plain old average horse, he'd have been gelded and no one would ever have known... or if he had merely been a mediocre stud, his breeding would have been so much smaller and the spread not so much... it would have been something people rarely heard of... but since he was one of the great horses of halter, and he was so famous and built so well... and bred so much... HYPP is huge... I can see the use of the word... "strange"...
> 
> luck of the draw?


Exactly!! It's really crazy... and just a strange thing to have happen! haha


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## DMoon (Oct 15, 2014)

Being an owner/breeder myself, I was very fond of Impressive. I owned 3 Impressive bred horses (all bred by me). My first was Shesa Bold Bar a 1993 Palomino by Hes Triple Impress (Skip by Impress x Vanbargo) a grandson of Impressive. He was about 15.2 hands and roughly 1400 lbs. Not quite so massive as today's popular stallions and at the time I bred my mare we were just learning about HyPP being named officially and that it could be identified via testing. Naturally I had my mare tested (N/N).
My next Impressive bred horse, a nephew of my mare. Skip's Triple Dare a 1999 Palomino colt by DoUDare (Hes Triple Impress x Sizzle Raliegh Ann) I had the opportunity to use a friend's mare that I just loved - Miss Thirsty Jaguar (Mr Jaguar x Ima Thristy Angel) - I showed this colt at Halter even after a near fatal accident when he was impaled on T-Post and had the post go through his ribs, shred his lung and collapse it and lose a rib which after he spent 3 months recovering from, pulled through beautifully but the scar was obvious and so was the missing rib - I watched judges gather and debate looking at my colt but in the end he won. Later as a riding horse he was AWESOME, he was so smooth and so easy to train and work with he blew my mind - My mare was my personal favorite, last foal out of my first horse and a treasure. Later I had my colt tested (N/H) and decided at 2 to castrate him. I know many would have kept him a stud and said I was stupid for gelding such a nice colt, but hey - he ended up being an awesome kids horse. I've often said, responsible breeders will self police the industry without AQHA having to do much and for the most part the spread has been less prominent but I think after reading AQHA's stance on HyPP and future registrations that they are on the right track.

Read all the comments here, Although the vid link to Kids Classic Style is no longer working I have seen him myself in person like 8 years ago and can say he is truly one massive horse - not particularly my slice of pie, i don't like them quite that heavy - i love a more refined performance typed halter horse than just pure looks. (my opinion of course) but, Kids Classic Style does look like he does in pictures and of the vids of him out there on YouTube.

One question I found didn't quite get answered, which is the reason I am posting on this thread was, _why only Impressive?_ Well, Impressive is not the only individual or species to have HyPP. it has been found in Humans as well, been well documented and I have heard through other sources that there may be a specific line of beef cattle suspected to have this mutation too (though can't say the beef rumor is true) But I do know it's not just Horses. as for heredity of HyPP:


H/H, meaning they have the mutation and it is homozygous. These horses always pass on the disease.
N/H, meaning they have the mutation and it is heterozygous. These horses are affected to a lesser degree and pass on the disease 50% of the time.
N/N, meaning they do not have the mutation and cannot pass it on.
*Disease in humans*

Although much less publicized, hyperkalemic periodic paralysis has been observed in humans. In humans the disorder causes episodes of extreme muscle weakness, with attacks often beginning in infancy. Depending on the type and severity of the HyperKPP, it can increase or stabilize until the fourth or fifth decade where attacks may cease, decline, or, depending on the type, continue on into old age. Factors that can trigger attacks include rest after exercise, potassium-rich foods, stress, fatigue, weather changes, certain pollutants (e.g., cigarette smoke) and fasting. Muscle strength often improves between attacks, although many affected people may have increasing bouts of muscle weakness as the disorder progresses (abortive attacks). Sometimes with HyperKPP those affected may experience degrees of muscle stiffness and spasms (myotonia) in the affected muscles. This can be caused by the same things that trigger the paralysis, dependent on the type of myotonia. (See also paramyotonia).
Some people with hyperkalemic periodic paralysis have increased levels of potassium in their blood (hyperkalemia) during attacks. In other cases, attacks are associated with normal blood potassium levels (normakalemia). Ingesting potassium can trigger attacks in affected individuals, even if blood potassium levels do not rise in response.


The above Information I found for quick reference is not my own just posting info that is readily available on the net.


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## Prisstine (Sep 16, 2014)

Interesting thread! I own a mare with Impressive bloodlines. I don't have anything to add but wanted to say thanks because it's an informative thread for sure.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

DMoon said:


> One question I found didn't quite get answered, which is the reason I am posting on this thread was, _why only Impressive?_


I think the answer to that is that this particular mutation in Quarter Horses started with Impressive. And because he was so popular, his genetics were spread far and wide. 

Maybe we can't trace it or eliminate it in other species (I have no idea) but with Impressive we actually have that chance. We can keep his bloodlines while also eliminating the defective gene mutation. If we can do that, I think it would be win-win.  

And it would be good for Impressive lovers too, because then his name wouldn't have such a stigma attached. Because let's face it, when most people think "Impressive" they think "HYPP." I know I do. I really know very little about the horse, other than he is associated with HYPP and some breeders are breeding positive horses just because they show well (I guess that's why.....because why else would you purposely carry on a genetic defect?).

So that's my opinion for whatever it's worth.

I was actually considering a Paint mare once (for trails) and the fact that she traced back to Impressive was a bit of a turn-off. Although I did find out her sire was N/N, so it wouldn't have been an issue (her dam wasn't Impressive bred). So for a serious breeder maybe his name is a plus, but for joe-bloe horseman, his name has a stigma attached, which is a shame. 

Actually, I feel that way about halter horses in general, because I have this impression (wrong or not?) that they won't hold up to serious riding. I want a horse that stays sound for as long as possible because once I own a horse I tend to keep them. And I would rather feed a sound horse I can ride.


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## gingerscout (Jan 18, 2012)

this is an interesting thread, I just noticed it hadn't been posted in in almost 5 years though..lol


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

gingerscout said:


> this is an interesting thread, I just noticed it hadn't been posted in in almost 5 years though..lol


I noticed that but still felt like responding. :lol:


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

trailhorserider said:


> Actually, I feel that way about halter horses in general, because I have this impression (wrong or not?) that they won't hold up to serious riding. I want a horse that stays sound for as long as possible because once I own a horse I tend to keep them. And I would rather feed a sound horse I can ride.


It is a misconception that every halter horse, especially Impressive line horses, have been bred to have terrible legs and feet. Our riding, Impressive line mare has very good feet, is very sure footed on and off the trail, and has had no health/physical problems after 9 years of road and trail riding. You do have to get used to riding them as she is very big barreled and those legs can really pound the ground at a gallop, but the only "problems" are that you feel like a bowl legged cowboy after you get off from a long ride and you have to watch for enough room for your legs when weaving through the trees or you'll take one on the knee.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

PaintHorseMares said:


> It is a misconception that every halter horse, especially Impressive line horses, have been bred to have terrible legs and feet. Our riding, Impressive line mare has very good feet, is very sure footed on and off the trail, and has had no health/physical problems after 9 years of road and trail riding. You do have to get used to riding them as she is very big barreled and those legs can really pound the ground at a gallop, but the only "problems" are that you feel like a bowl legged cowboy after you get off from a long ride and you have to watch for enough room for your legs when weaving through the trees or you'll take one on the knee.


I had a Mustang like that......we were always a "wide load" wherever we went. (I think he had a little draft in him). Although I am a wide load myself, so we really matched up well. :lol:


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

trailhorserider said:


> I had a Mustang like that......we were always a "wide load" wherever we went. (I think he had a little draft in him). Although I am a wide load myself, so we really matched up well. :lol:


We call ours the "tank" ;-)


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

FoxTrottrGrl said:


> Sorry, I'm not trying to turn it into a debate - just trying to shed some clarification. And I know I'm really new here, but I fail to see how it could become a debate...? We know HYPP exists. We know it links back to Impressive. We know that inbreeding occurred (as it does in every breed - see previously mentioned Missouri Fox Trotters, or look at the popular sires for any breed out there). Yes, people have their own views over how good or bad inbreeding is, but that's not even part of the discussion here - it's simply a statement that inbreeding occurred.
> Besides, it was already mentioned that Impressive was a halter sire.


There is a difference between inbreeding and line breeding. 

I personally love the Impressive line. I have a mare that is a granddaughter to him and then I have her son. They are pretty to look at and are really smart. I use mine for all around, so anymore they are not "just" for halter. Although the Impressive lines are still winning big in the halter ring.

As for HYPP, it is what it is. I hate that people feel the need to make that the focal point of any discussion that has to do with Impressive. HYPP can only be passed on if you breed an NH or an HH horse. If you are educated in the disease then you can make good decisions. Although, there are those breeders that are still breeding for the disease....:-(


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

LOL, old cowboys around here used to say "The only difference between inbreeding and line breeding is the quality of the resulting stock. If it results in a good horse, then it's line breeding, if it results in a cull, then it's inbreeding" :wink: :razz: :lol:.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

smrobs said:


> LOL, old cowboys around here used to say "The only difference between inbreeding and line breeding is the quality of the resulting stock. If it results in a good horse, then it's line breeding, if it results in a cull, then it's inbreeding" :wink: :razz: :lol:.


I've heard the same expression here 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

Line breeding is inbreeding. if it was people having babies with this close of relatives.. well 
what kind of odd genetic diseases do you think they would have ? there is a disease in the Amish (no offense to anyone just using it as an example) because they were all related.


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## Kristyjog (Nov 11, 2013)

I've always heard the same expression smrobs in the horse, cattle, sheep and dog show worlds 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DMoon (Oct 15, 2014)

PaintHorseMares said:


> It is a misconception that every halter horse, especially Impressive line horses, have been bred to have terrible legs and feet. Our riding, Impressive line mare has very good feet, is very sure footed on and off the trail, and has had no health/physical problems after 9 years of road and trail riding. You do have to get used to riding them as she is very big barreled and those legs can really pound the ground at a gallop, but the only "problems" are that you feel like a bowl legged cowboy after you get off from a long ride and you have to watch for enough room for your legs when weaving through the trees or you'll take one on the knee.


Agreed there. I used to get comments from my friends on their "Performance bred" horses that my "Impressive Mare" couldn't out perform theirs, "She's just too heavily muscled, she's not bred for hard work" etc etc etc... lol well, I took them up on an all day trail ride in the mountains and around folsom lake, Ca. I had to constantly stop so their "performance horses" could catch their breath.. by the time we got back to our trailers to head home, they shut up about my impressive mare lol. One asked me how come she wasn't tired like theirs was. Answer came simply - I ride alot, she's used to the trails and lots of riding. Also, she remained sound, had no issues with her legs or hooves - I even do cattle round ups and anything else that crops up for fun. I've never had any problems with her or my other impressive bred horses in the performance dept. Mine were all bred in such a way that if they didn't have that cutting edge look that wins in halter, they sure as heck will make a great riding horse.


As for Impressive as a Performance horse Sire
Offspring Total Points Earned: 24,772; Number Shown: 949; Point Earners: 741; Lifetime Incentive Fund: $35,495; Halter Points Earned: 19,143.5; Halter Point Earners: 849; Halter ROMS: 68; Halter Superior Awards: 146; 
Performance Points Earned: 5,628.5; Performance Point Earners: 269; Performance ROMS: 118; Performance SuperiorAwards: 32; 
AQHA Champions: 25; Total SuperiorAwards: 178; Total ROM's: 186; Total World Championships: 38; Total Res World Championships: 28; High Point Wins: 7; 
Sired Race Earners: $1,653; Race ROMS: 2; Race Offspring Wins: 6Equi-Stat Offspr HLT LTE Fut Earnings: $8,188
Number of HLT Fut Offspr: 18
Offspr HLT LTE Fut Avg Earnings: $455
Equi-Stat Offspr WP LTE Fut Earnings: $6,542
Number of WP Fut Offspr: 3
Offspr WP LTE Fut Avg Earnings: $2,181
Equi-Stat Offspr Total Pleasure LTE Fut Earnings: $6,542
Number of Total Pleasure Fut Offspr: 3
Offspr Total Pleasure LTE Fut Avg Earnings: $2,181
*Leading Sire List*
AQHA Halter List: #12 All-time leading sire of HLT ROM qualifiers - 44 
AQHA Performance List: #22 All-time leading sire of perf ROM qualifiers - 89; #13 All-time leading sire of Open AQHA Champions - 21 
*Stallion Rankings - A Top Stallion Ranked By:*


All-Time Stallion Offspring Lifetime Halter Earnings
All-Time Stallion Offspring Avg. Western Pleasure Earnings


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