# would you risk your life for your horse...my story



## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

Today was without a doubt the worst day of my life.

Firstly, a freak early snowstorm blew in last night. With the leaves still on the trees, weathermen were warning of power outages due to limbs breaking under the weight of the snow and coming down on power lines. Travel was treacherous....


We board our horses on a private farm WAAAY up in the mountains. It's beautiful up there in the summer, cool and breezy....but winter weather creates some dangerous driving conditions. 
Since we don't have a vehicle with four wheel drive, the property owner where we keep our horses offered to come pick us up. The drive up the mountain was tense, with some major slipping, tree branches weighted down with snow so badly they scraped the roof of the car, and limbs all along the side of the road. 

We get to the farm in near whiteout conditions.....and proceed to do what we do everyday, clean the stalls, let the horses out to walk around the barn, groom....

My son was the first to spot the signs of trouble. Beau was acting strangely. His pulse was extremely rapid and very strong...shaking his entire body. We checked for gut sounds. NONE Colic...so, I get on the phone trying to contact our vet. I get an answering machine and leave a message. I check for gut sounds again. None. But then I notice that he isn't quite acting like a colic victim. He's calm, lethargic almost....we try to feed him, he can't swallow. He's got foam around his mouth. He moves his neck to the side alot. And his tongue keeps hanging out of his mouth.

maybe it's not colic after all. Oh no, he's got choke. Again. he's done this twice before....and while these episodes caused him distress, they resolved themselves fairly quickly without a vet.. this wasn't resolving....despite neck massages and using a turkey baster to try to get water into him (vet recommended). Vet calls. She can't make it to the farm, she's got another emergency call two hours away and the roads are horrible....I told her we don't mind waiting, he's not in danger of dying right away, and even if it took hours, we would wait. i can't make it there period, she says. Wow, did we feel betrayed. Our vet refuses to come...yea, the roads are bad, and while choke wasn't immediately life threatening, IT IS A MAJOR emergency.

so we call other vets in the area. We aren't clients of theirs, so they won't come. OMG, these people are just going to let our horse die??? Finally, I called the last vet clinic in our area....the vet says, try this try that....we did, i tell her. She says, call your vet back and ask her again to come. She already said no, I tell her... at this point I break down into a sobbing mass of hysteria. Vet has a heart and agrees to drive through these horrible conditions up the mountain strewn with tree limbs along the side of the road, and more coming down every minute.

It was a long wait. The drive which should have taken 30 minutes took over an hour.

In that time, the power goes out. No water, no lights, no heat....

We stand by the paddock door waiting and worrying...watching the road that leads down the mountain for the vet's truck... it's windy, it's snowing...suddenly there is a loud sound...OMG, a tree has just fallen across the only road leading to and from the farm. The vet can't get through when she does finally get there. We tell the farm owner. she and her husband and my adult son and daughter ride down to where the fallen tree is, and he starts cutting it with a chainsaw to clear the road so the vet can make it up to the barn. The electric company men arrive and start yelling at the farm owner and her husband. There are live wires down....he can't be cutting that tree with a chainsaw....they haven't located the wires, they are in the woods alonside the road somewhere he says. We have a sick horse, we need the road cleared for the vet farm owner's wife says. Electric man says " why are you people doing this...it's just a horse. i would see doing this for a person. A person's life is more important than a horse..." "A horse isn't important". It is to us, she says.
My son sees a truck pull up behind the electric company truck ....electric men are on one side of the fallen tree, farm owners and my kids on the other. My son says....it's the vet. He can't get over the tree, which is lying on the road, so he runs off into the woods along the road to get to the vet's truck. My daughter yells for him "stop, there are live wires in the woods somewhere" My son isn't listening. his horse is dying and all he can think of is getting to the vet. My daughter yells to him " at least wait for me, I am coming with you" As they are runningthrough the woods, she sees one of the live wires hanging down from a tree branch. A moment of fear shakes her composure. WHERE is the other one? But she and my son, who is beyond any fear except that of his horse dying, continue through the woods. They get to the vet. The only way to get to the farm is to walk BACK through the woods...so they lead her through. In a blinding snow, with branches coming down all around them....and a live wire hanging from a tree, the other one still not found. 

They make it to the farm and Beau is tubed. She disloges whatever caused the choke and pumped some water into his stomach to keep him hydrated since he could have been like this since sometime last night after we left or early this morning. 

The farm owners drive her back down the road to her truck as the electric company have cleared the road by then.

Beau is not allowed any hay till tomorrow....grass only, she said. But the grass is buried under a foot of snow. So, me and my daughter go out into the blinding snow and bitter cold. .... we shovel off an area of pasture and proceed to get down on our hands and knees and cut grass with scissors. I've never been so cold in my life. We cut 3 buckets worth of grass for him for the night.

But here the story gets even better. We give him the first bucket in his stall....spreading it out so it doesn't clump together and since he was soooo hungry we didn't want him to gulp it. The two other buckets were to be spread out in his stall in seperate feedings ....the farm owner had to drive us back down the mountain, and we all wanted to leave before dark, due to the limbs falling and the treacherous roads....which meant we had to leave at 6 pm...

so in the fading light we blanket him, put the grass around his stall and leave. 

We ask the barn owner to feed him one bucket at eight and the other at ten. 

Since it is bitterly cold and they have no power, meaning no heat, running water or lights, they were planning on going to a hotel. But then she wouldn't be able to feed Beau his 10 pm bucket. So she decided to not go to a hotel....her husband, her 19 yr. old daughter and herself are now spending the night in a cold, dark house.....with no heat, on a bitterly cold night up there in the mountains. They could be in a nice warm motel right now....instead they are bundled up in their frigid house.....all because of Beau.

My son and daughter ran through a snowy woods with two live electric lines somewhere in there to reach the vet....and the farm owners are braving a night without heat and in darkness....all for one silly gray horse.

I hope he realizes how much he is loved.


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

darn computer double posted. 

I apologize for the other thread...

I am really not myself tonight. It' s been a horrible day. My son and daughter kept their calm while I was in the bathroom sobbing my eyes out....of no use to them or Beau. I am so ashamed.

And apparently My computer skills are lacking as I posted the same story twice...somehow.

i think I need to go to sleep....:?


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## jumpingrules92 (Aug 2, 2011)

I posted on one of them...

It dissapeared! What in the world!

ANyways, I am SO glad everyone is okay-Including Beau. I was on edge just reading that so I can only imagine what you and your family must of been feeling...

Bless that vets heart for making it out there and taking that chance. 

What a lucky horse 

Hes very cute too!


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## Kiviknon (Jul 26, 2010)

Not sure if you want to listen to my story, or just to comment on your own. Titles are so confusing.

So here is mine anyways, October 2001, we do a nighttime HALO jump into Afghanistan. After meeting with out CIA contact he takes us to some local Northern Alliance villages who agree to sell us some of their horses. We had to go to three different villages before we could finally get everyone outfitted. I got this nice bay that I named, Trigger; it seemed appropriate. 

December of 2001 myself and someone who will not be named were coming back from a recon of the area when we were ambushed. Trigger took eight rounds in his hind leg, but managed to stay on his feet until I got off and charged the ambushers. There was nothing we could do for him, so I put him down right there on the side of the road. As a unit we helped dig his grave and put him in it. His grave marker can still be found along A75 just outside of Spin Buldak.


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

kiviknon...what a story.... wow.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Would I risk my life for my horses? 

Nope. Not a chance. If there is a significant risk of my dying, they are on their own. They are my horses, not my kids.

There is a non-zero probability of dying with almost any activity, and riding is riskier than most sports. I'll work with a horse that is thrashing around with colic, but not if she is going completely bonkers. I'll accept some risk, but not a high risk of serious injury or death.

When you take chances, sometimes luck is with you and it all works out.

"My son isn't listening. His horse is dying and all he can think of is getting to the vet. My daughter yells to him " at least wait for me, I am coming with you" As they are runningthrough the woods, she sees one of the live wires hanging down from a tree branch. A moment of fear shakes her composure. WHERE is the other one? But she and my son, who is beyond any fear except that of his horse dying, continue through the woods."

Now, lets suppose luck isn't with you. Suppose the next sentence in the news report is "Both children were electrocuted." Now it is no longer a heart-warming story.

The book "Deep Survival" (Amazon.com: Deep Survival: Who Lives, Who Dies, and Why (9780393326154): Laurence Gonzales: Books) discusses risk and outdoor activities such as mountain climbing and flying. When people take a chance and survive, it creates a mental picture that influences their future behavior. If it worked before, it MUST work again.

But it doesn't. Luck isn't always with you. Life isn't a Disney film, where the plucky heroine always wins. In the real world, when you take chances long enough, you die. The ex-military officer in me remembers the saying, "There are old pilots. There are bold pilots. But there are no old, bold pilots."

And I don't want either myself or my kids to die helping a horse. If that makes me heartless...well, losing my heart ought to lower my blood pressure, at least.


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## IndiesaurusRex (Feb 23, 2011)

Beauseant said:


> Today was without a doubt the worst day of my life.
> 
> Firstly, a freak early snowstorm blew in last night. With the leaves still on the trees, weathermen were warning of power outages due to limbs breaking under the weight of the snow and coming down on power lines. Travel was treacherous....
> 
> ...



I know of a girl who did risk her life for a horse - not even her horse, but a horse she worked with.

I was on my work experience with an equine vet when we got called out to a stud farm about 20 miles away from us. When we got there, we were told how the stud was out in a field, and there were mares in the field two over from him. He proceeded to try and clamber over the gate, but got his foreleg stuck between the gate and the gate post, lacerating it on the hinge.

This is where the story gets crazy - the yard girl, seeing all this happen, and how he was still stuck on the gate, runs over and gets UNDERNEATH this stallion that's thrashing around and lifts his leg off the gate (with his help, obviously), then hangs onto him with a rope whilst she calls the owner/manager and they called the vet.

He ended up needing stitches and box rest for a month, and I was left wondering 'what would I have done?'. To this day, I still don't think I really know.


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## christabelle (Feb 13, 2011)

No, I would not. My kids count on me too much. That and what good would me dying do for my horses? I don't know if anyone else would put up with them. I would be devastated if one of them were killed... But my family is more important. I think my answer would be different if you asked me when I was a teenager.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

I wouldn't endanger my own life or the lives of others for a horse. As much as I love mine, human life is more important.

I'm not sure how old your children are Beauseant, but even if they're teens your job as a mother is to protect them, even from themselves sometimes.

This isn't an Afterschool Special or a Lifetime Movie, this is real life. Your children had a very real chance of being electrocuted, and yet you let them go off into the dark woods with downed electrical wires.

As far as your BO and her family staying in their dark, cold house, that was their choice. Nobody's going to die from staying in an unheated house one night. Sure, they might be uncomfortable if they don't have a woodstove, but they'll survive.

I'm not sure why you and your family didn't volunteer to stay with them, seeing as you were already there, and worried enough about the horse to endanger human lives.

Sorry, but I don't see this as a wonderful, heartwarming story. I see it as people being stupid and irrational, and potentially getting themselves killed. It shocks and appalls me, not gives me the warm fuzzies about how much you 'love' your horse.


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

Just wanted to add:

my son is 20 yrs old, he is the horse's owner. My daughter is 28. I was not in the vicinity when the tree brought down the electric lines. He and my daughter went to help the property owners try to move it..... I was left to tend to the sick horse. I had no idea what was going on down the road...I heard the story from my daughter. While I do not approve of either of my adult children running through woods with live wires down....I know them well enough to have not been surprised when I heard what happened. I know my son, and he would die for his horses (both belong to him) and I know my daughter well enough to know she would never let her beloved brother go into a dangerous situation alone. She is that devoted to him.

So, here I sit the next day, not knowing whether to be proud of them for their love and devotion, my son to his horse, my daughter to her brother......or to spank them for taking chances like that!!! :-(

As for the property owner, she's a gem, really. An avid animal lover....and while i did not approve of her staying the night in a cold and dark house just to feed Beau, and told her so...I could not change her mind. She's an Italian...and makes her own decisions. She would never leave an animal in distress, not mine, not hers, not yours, not a wild animal. 

The vet...well, she was just someone doing what their heart told them to. BTW, she was very young...only looked to be in her early 20s...yet dedicated to her job. THAT is admirable!!! She drove through a dangerous storm, with tree limbs coming down all around her, up a mountain...only to find her road blocked by a downed tree and live wires....but within site of the farm where the sick horse was....and walked with my kids through the woods where the wires were....to help a horse in need. Words cannot describe her heroism and dedication to helping animals in need......did she go above and beyond what was required of her? OMG< YES....but again, that was her choice.

And I disagree, this is a warm and fuzzy story...and I am blessed to have been part of it. Where else can you find so much love and dedication and commitment these days? All people involved went to great lengths to help each other and a silly gray horse.... I am awed by the goodness and kindness and dedication and love I witnessed yesterday.

SR, I dislike the tone of your telling me how bad of a mother I am to let my adult children go running off into a forest with downed electric wires...but will assume since you didn't have all the details you made a rash judgement. Now that I've cleared up where I was and how I was not aware of the details...only that a tree was down and the property owners requested my kids' help in moving it.....I am sure you would not use such harsh condemnation


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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

Beauseant said:


> Just wanted to add:
> 
> my son is 20 yrs old, he is the horse's owner. My daughter is 28. I was not in the vicinity when the tree brought down the electric lines. He and my daughter went to help the property owners try to move it..... I was left to tend to the sick horse. I had no idea what was going on down the road...I heard the story from my daughter. While I do not approve of either of my adult children running through woods with live wires down....I know them well enough to have not been surprised when I heard what happened. I know my son, and he would die for his horses (both belong to him) and I know my daughter well enough to know she would never let her beloved brother go into a dangerous situation alone. She is that devoted to him.
> 
> ...


What in the world does being Italian have to do with anything? I agree with Speed Racer; why didn't you and your children offer to stay as well? Weren't they the ones that brought you there in the first place? How did you get home? 

I can understand being worried about your horse and trying everything possible to get help, but I think you need to take a step back and realize just how dangerous the situation was. Not for the horse, but for your kids. 

Also, it sounds like this vet told you no in the first place because it was too dangerous and then you kept bugging her so she relented. 

As for finding love and dedication; its everywhere. Some people who have that think with their heads though, not their heart.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Maybe the vet did it BECAUSE she was young. And like the kids, THIS TIME it worked out. Next time, she could be killed in a crash driving to help your horse, or electrocuted going thru the woods. Then all the heart-warming stuff goes away. A corpse remains.

Hate to be a downer, but I also don't like encouraging dangerous behavior based on it working out this time.


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

Who can say why the people involved did what they did? Guess they were just following their own consciences....and since all were adults, they have that right to make their own decisions.

The vet came because she wanted to. She did not know me, my horse..she was not my regular vet....she just responded to a distress call....whether you agree with them or not....everyone made their own decisions.

Me, I am just tending the horse...crying and frantic with worry about him, and what was going on down the road with the tree. Even without the downed lines, which i did not know about till later, moving a tree, even one that looks small...is dangerous in and of itself.


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

Unpopular opinion time: 

Yes I would risk my life for a horse. 

Oh my, How selfish of me to risk my life and taking a chance that I'd leave loved one's behind. You're selfish if you don't save the horse, so really I'm selfish either way. Just depends on what kind of selfish you choose to be. 

I won't have kids, so I won't have to worry about that little dependency upon needing their parents alive. As far as that goes, I'm not gonna risk anybody else's life other than mine to save an animal, unless someone volunteers to help. 

As far as luck goes I don't believe in luck. I believe in chance. Yeah there's a chance I can die, and there's a chance I might not. It doesn't scare me and I'll take my chance's in my life.


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

Just wanted to reiterate for those who didn't read my post: 

I did not send my kids into a forest with downed wires. I was tending the horse. Did not learn about the situation till after it had happened ....both children are adults in their 20s ..I've taught them to be independent and to make their own decisions....and yesterday they did. Despite what I think....:-(


Dressage person: She's an Italian was meant to poke fun at the idea of the bossy old Italian mother stereotype. Sorry that got by you.


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## palominolover (Apr 28, 2010)

Wow what a story. Good on you =) I would most definitely risk my life for a horse. Any horse at the farm I am at I would. Or if there was a horse in distress and somebody needed help I would to. I don't have anything to loose, I have people who could take care of my cat ( who I would also risk my life for). I don't have kid's, and it's my life. I don't think it's selfish i think it shows how deeply you care for your animals.


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

My son feels the same...as his mom, when I think of what could have happened...i am filled with sadness. I love my son deeply, he is my best friend....but I also know how he is...he is not just a horse owner, he is a horse lover...his "babies" mean the world to him and he would do whatever it took to save them.

A part of me is angry he took chances like that....the other part is proud of him for his dedication and selflessness on behalf of his horses.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Hmmm...seems some folks might want to include provision for their horse in their wills. 

There is an O. Henry-esque story lurking on this thread somewhere...


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

"You have never really lived until you have done something for someone who can never repay you" -Unknown. 

A quote I really like. 

If somebody chooses to be sad over my death of trying to save a living being human or not then so be it. I will ALWAYS consider myself a hero for trying to save any living being. If you choose to think of me as stupid, and not a hero for trying to save an animal, then so be it. I really could care less.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Beauseant said:


> A part of me is angry he took chances like that....the other part is proud of him for his dedication and selflessness on behalf of his horses.


LOL! Isn't that just what being a mom is? My mom & dad used to tell me, "We're not sure whether to kiss you or kill you!" after some of my more harebrained stunts. 

Now that I'm mostly grown up at 54, I probably would not go into the woods after the vet. At your son's and daughter's ages, I most assuredly would have and wouldn't have even thought for a NANO second about it. OH heck, at 54 I still might do it but would be able to envision all the consequences and then would decide that I really AM still bulletproof and do it anyway. Only when I got hurt would I realize that I'd screwed up again. Some of us are just wired that way I think. 

I'm glad your horse is ok, choke can be a terrifying experience. I'm sure the vet told you to watch for sudden recurrence in the next several days, if he tore a portion of his esophagus it could happen with a lot less provocation than before. You might want to have them consider putting some fairly large rocks in his feeder so that he has to slow down and pick his feed out from around the rocks. It sometimes helps.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Beauseant said:


> Now that I've cleared up where I was and how I was not aware of the details...only that a tree was down and the property owners requested my kids' help in moving it.....I am sure you would not use such harsh condemnation


So you didn't actually _witness_ any of this, just extrapolated it? Because in your first post, you made it sound as if this happened in your vicinity, and within eye and earshot.

You forgot to mention that your children are adults. As adults, of course they're allowed to make their own decisions. Since you've now stated the property owners asked them to help move the tree and they didn't just plunge bravely into the dark woods with live wires spitting electricity everywhere, that's rather quite different from what you originally posted, don't you think?

Except for the vet, I don't see anyone as having 'risked death' for the horse. I've helped move plenty of downed trees to open a roadway, and as long as you stay away from any wires you'll be fine. Wood doesn't conduct electricity, which is why it's used for holding up electrical wires.

You can believe this is a wonderful story of bravery and selflessness, but now that the actual _facts_ are being presented they're quite a bit less dramatic than what you originally posted, and I don't see this as any different than what I or scores of others would do for our own animals.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

bsms said:


> Hmmm...seems some folks might want to include provision for their horse in their wills.
> 
> There is an O. Henry-esque story lurking on this thread somewhere...


HAAAH, I LOVE O. Henry stories!

And since I do tend to be on the rash side, I actually HAVE made provisions for my horses should any of my rashness end up in my untimely demise.


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

So glad everything worked out for the better! And glad everyone is okay....to answer your question, 

I personally would risk my life for my horse. But, my husband and I dont have any kids. So Rodeo is like my little kid. When we do have kids, my answer will probably change. 

Might sound idiotic, or whatever, but he just means the world to me! Keep us updated on how Beau is, and hope the weather gets better for you!


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> ...I actually HAVE made provisions for my horses should any of my rashness end up in my untimely demise.


I need to make out a will, which may be why I thought of the comment. I *think* our kids would keep our horses if my wife & I were killed, but I'd hate to have Mia & Trooper trot up to me in the Great Beyond, and say, "They sold us to a meat-packing place in Mexico..." :shock: :shock: :shock:


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## Northernstar (Jul 23, 2011)

I think I stopped breathing after the first 5 sentences - what an amazing story! Where I live, we have winter storms like that every year, and I could feel your urgency, and sense of "keep going forward! We'll get through it!" 
This will be the first winter having my horse at home, and how grateful I'll be for the convenience of having her barn and pasture out back! Even so, trudging uphill during a blizzard bringing feed in 2+ ft of snow is no easy feat, (worked at a few stables in winter), but certainly a labor of love as most horse owners would agree! Thankyou for sharing such a _tremendous_ story - It definately brought tears to my eyes at the end!


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

Well, i've learned some things about the people in my life from this experience.

Our property owners went beyond anything I expected of them. The wife had the husband go down the road on the ATV to cut up the tree with a chainsaw since it turned out to be too big to move. THAT freaked the electric co. guys out so bad....a man with a chainsaw cutting up a downed tree with live wires somewhere in the vicinity???:shock: He didn't know there were live wires down, no one did till the electric co. men told them. 

Staying in a cold dark house to care for a horse that gets on your nerves most days and is called "nosey" or "beast", is also beyond the norm. 

We are very grateful that they are our BOs....such kind hearted and considerate people are to be treasured. They do so much for us and our horses on a daily basis....this was just more than special.

My kids have shown me that they've grown up and have minds of their own (my mind control techniques have worn off:evil and though their actions frightened the heck out of me, I am still proud of them...despite the fact that I've sprouted a few more gray hairs from the incident. I am especially proud of my daughter...following her brother into what she thought was a bad situation just because she loves him and wherever he goes, she goes....even unto death. 

My son is a good man....he is kind and considerate and not one given to rash or thoughtless actions.... and totally dedicated to his "babies". He put their welfare above his own yesterday. While some may think that is silly or impetous....it is what it is in each person's opinion. People are different....

I guess i have to say, I am proud of everyone, including the vet, and what they did or tried to do. 

I used to think of the whole event as the worst day of my life.....now I am beginnng to look at it differently.


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## cakemom (Jul 4, 2010)

At this point I would not have because I have small ones depending on me, but when the only thing I had depending on me was my animals, yes I have and would have as often as needed. 
And I'm going to tell ya, I know this is a forum and everyone is entitled to this opinion, but geesh I read some angry, mean spirited posts on this board.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> HAAAH, I LOVE O. Henry stories!
> 
> And since I do tend to be on the rash side, I actually HAVE made provisions for my horses should any of my rashness end up in my untimely demise.



I have something set up also.

And as far as the answer to the original question.

It is surprising what people will do. In a situation where mostpeople thrown into without the time to think things through I have found* MOST* people* WILL* do things they may not do given they had time to set all their ducks in a row. 

Would I leap into a burning barn to rescue horses that are not mine? Probably not if I had the time to see others there and could help. But I did just that a few years ago. People do these things and for those that were not in this situation, who can sit back in their rockers and think the situation through without any consequence it is an easy say to write back that they would not.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Would I? Absolutely. It's not rational, but I don't think I would be able to give it a second thought. However, I would never let a young kid risk their life for an animal.


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## pintophile (May 18, 2011)

I'm a little late to the table, but just to answer your original question, would I risk my life for a horse?

No. 

My two horses mean the world to me, I worry about them constantly, I do love and enjoy them and I would do anything in my power to help them if they were sick or injured. But as far as _actually_ putting my *life* in danger to help them? I really doubt it. As much as they are my most treasured possessions, in the end, they are still just animals. My life comes before theirs, always. And I have no doubt they would say the same thing, if they could talk.

With other horses, the answer is most definitely, 100% no. I'll do all I can to help a suffering animal, but I am not going to kill myself in the process.


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

Okay I have no problem with people not willing to risk their lives for horses. 

But I find it hypocritical to say I'm not going to save them because they are "Just Animals" 

Humans ARE animals, too, so I guess that means when I see a person in danger I shouldn't save them because humans are animals. Just saying.


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## SarahAnn (Oct 22, 2011)

Okay okay okay, to those who won't "risk" their lives for their horses because you have children and a REAL family- 

I am the proud mother of a beautiful 2 year old human, who I love with every once of me. However, I am also the proud mother of a German Shorthair Pointer, a Great Dane, a Bobtail cat, and 6 horses. 

I risk my life every time I get into a car, every time I drive in the snow, every time I WALK into a stall with a horse, every time I clean out hooves, every time I get in the saddle, I could go on FOREVER about the risks of horse ownership. They're big animals that can be potentially dangerous at any given time. 

Accidents happen, that's why they're called accidents, not on purposes. If my child was choking and an ambulance refused to come, I would INDEED do WHATEVER it takes to save her. The same goes for a horse. And in beauseant's case the ambulance refused to come while her child was choking- or in her case I think her grandchild (as its her son's horse.) 

It is a heartwarming story, and I'm so glad everything turned out okay. I don't personally think its necessary to go on and on about how everyone did the wrong thing- yet if it were your horse, it would have died, and you'd probably be expecting sympathy from everyone. You take chances for your animals, or you shouldn't own one at all, in my opinion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SarahAnn (Oct 22, 2011)

Oh, yes, also... I have it specifically outlined in my will how much money goes to what animals AND PEOPLE. I have it set up so that in the event of an ACCIDENT and I die, my husband will not have to worry about paying for hay and grain and a person to do all the things I do- (he works away from home for what seems like a thousand hours a week and doesn't have time to work in the barn AND make the money so that I don't have to.)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Katesrider011 said:


> ...But I find it hypocritical to say I'm not going to save them because they are "Just Animals"
> 
> Humans ARE animals, too, so I guess that means when I see a person in danger I shouldn't save them because humans are animals. Just saying.


It isn't hypocritical. It is a form of shorthand.

Would I risk my life for my horses or dogs? Not if I thought about it.

Would I risk my life for a stranger? Maybe - how much risk? 1%? Probably. 50%? Probably not.

Do I think I would be willing to give my life for my kids, at 100% risk? Well...there ARE days...but yes.

Have I gone up against a Rottie barehanded for my dog? Yes, and it worked because I know dogs, and I didn't doubt I could make it stick. Would I go up against a grizzly barehanded to protect them? Nope.

Saying "They are just animals" is shorthand for "They are animals that I don't value high enough to give my life for..." - and for me, that is certainly true of some people. 

Would I risk my life to protect a rapist in prison? Hate to break it to folks, but no. Will I take a 100% chance of death for a stranger? If you are that stranger, and I'm the only one who can save you...sorry, but it wasn't your day.

Guys have died jumping in hot pools in Yellowstone to save their dog. No, I didn't think, "How noble!" I just figured they jumped without thinking, and paid the price.


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## walkingwest (Aug 22, 2011)

Cakemom, I was thinking the same thing....


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

My opinion stands. 

EDA: Whether or not you are willing to save one is not my problem, but it's "Just an Animal" is no excuse. 

Maybe people are more important to you, but using the logic of "It's just an animal" doesn't make any sense because people are animals as well. We are just the most intelligent beings, but we are animals and serve no more of a purpose than to be animals on this planet. We aren't super beings just cause we're human.


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

Thanks everyone for your input...and I mean ALL who gave their opinions pro and con. 

Others (who know who they are) who just reply to the thread because they either are angry at the world and need an outlet or have a personal dislike for my posting style, me or "my" horses...I ignore. 

But As for the others who gave their opinions, I find this thread very interesting. I LIKE hearing how others feel and think about issues...

And while I happen to personally agree with those who would risk their lives for their horses, I also welcome replies from those who wouldn't. And I respect their reasoning. 

And if my son had "accidentally" found that live wire while running through those woods, I would certainly be singing a different tune right now...grief would obscure all. But he is my best friend...and as a toddler I tried to instill in him a great respect and love of animals. All animals. Just because they can't do calculus or haven't figured out the DNA double helix doesn't mean they are worth less, or are "lower" than us. They have feelings, they have emotions, and they were created by the same God who created us. Does that mean we should risk our lives for an animal? If your heart tells you to. Yes, we should all follow the dictates of our hearts. And in plain english that means that we should let our inner spirit guide us...and if your inner spirit guides you towards placing a value on one species over another, that's ok. It's ok to feel that way. But it is also ok to value an animal's life as equal to your own...and risking your life to save another, be it human or animal, is noble and honorable.

This may freak some of you out who don't understand how a person could value an animal as much as a human, but I love Beau as if he were my son. I often joke to my son that Beau is his brother, I have two sons....

do I really love a horse as much as my own family??? Honestly??? YES. I do. 

As weird as that may sound to some of you, step back and understand that we all value things differently.... and that's ok. 

And it's good to discuss these issues, and to hear what the opposing side has to say....and give them the same respect you yourself deserve.

SOOO...Thanks again to everyone (minus the hatchet grinders) who participated in this thread from both sides of the issue. THIS is what makes this forum so interesting.


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## HorseTrance (Jan 26, 2011)

What a great story. I know I would risk my life for my animals as well. Once my adrenaline kicks in, its like everything falls into place and you become ninja =P ..however, if you were to panic.. then most likely you would end up to your death. 

I believe risking your life for anyone or anything you truly care about is an act of compassion that you rarely see these days. I don't care what critics say about not risking their life for something they love (in this case a horse) it just shows how selfish some people are towards something that has given them enjoyment and even the gift of freedom, friendship, money, and love. Doesn't mean all critics are selfish though, actually most critics just know that other than risking their life for that certain thing they love, they have responsibilities to upkeep *several* certain things they love, and they might have to make sacrifices in order to do that.

At least thats what I think. Either way, I think it was brave in how much you all risked to save the horse, even with all the danger afoot.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"On July 20, 1981, David Allen Kirwan, 24, of La Canada, Calif., and his friend Ronald Ratliff, 25, of Thousand Oaks, parked their truck at Yellowstone's Fountain Paint Pot parking lot early in the afternoon. While the two young men looked at the hot springs, Ratliff's dog, "Moosie," a large mastiff or great dane, escaped from the truck and jumped into the nearby Celestine Pool, a hot spring found to be 202 degrees Fahrenheit. The dog began yelping, so Kirwan and Ratliff rushed to the spring. A bystander, seeing that Kirwan was preparing to enter the water, shouted "Don't go in there."

"Like hell I won't," Kirwan yelled back before taking two steps into the pool, then diving headfirst into the water. He swam to the dog and tried to take it to shore but soon gave up and tried to climb out.

Ratliff, pulling Kirwan from the spring, suffered second degree burns on his own feet. Another visitor, Earl Welsh, took Kirwan's hand; the skin already was peeling from his body. He appeared to be blind, his eyes totally white. Another man ran up to remove Kirwan's shoes; the skin came off with them. "Don't do that," Welsh said, and Kirwan, exhausted, said, "It doesn't matter." With third degree burns over 100 percent of his body, it didn't. The next day he was dead."

Death in Yellowstone: Accidents and Foolhardiness in the... - Chicago Tribune

snopes.com: Hot Springs Deaths

Hero? I agree with his dying assessment: "That was a stupid thing I did."

Life is hard. It is harder when you emote instead of think.


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## Northernstar (Jul 23, 2011)

I agree wholeheartedly! The people in our surrounding area are just like that - Including myself and my husband. We have long, harsh winters here, and _everyone _will go to extremes such as you described to help one another! It truly makes one appreciate simple country living, and although I'm having a moment on the computer, it's as time stood still up here. In reflection, you can now see the series of events in that major blizzard, and the selfless acts of everyone involved. It warms the heart and soul. Experienced many winters like that, and am both strengthened and humbled every time!


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

SarahAnn said:


> Okay okay okay, to those who won't "risk" their lives for their horses because you have children and a REAL family-
> 
> I am the proud mother of a beautiful 2 year old human, who I love with every once of me. However, I am also the proud mother of a German Shorthair Pointer, a Great Dane, a Bobtail cat, and 6 horses.
> 
> ...


well said!!! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

bsms said:


> "On July 20, 1981, David Allen Kirwan, 24, of La Canada, Calif., and his friend Ronald Ratliff, 25, of Thousand Oaks, parked their truck at Yellowstone's Fountain Paint Pot parking lot early in the afternoon. While the two young men looked at the hot springs, Ratliff's dog, "Moosie," a large mastiff or great dane, escaped from the truck and jumped into the nearby Celestine Pool, a hot spring found to be 202 degrees Fahrenheit. The dog began yelping, so Kirwan and Ratliff rushed to the spring. A bystander, seeing that Kirwan was preparing to enter the water, shouted "Don't go in there."
> 
> "Like hell I won't," Kirwan yelled back before taking two steps into the pool, then diving headfirst into the water. He swam to the dog and tried to take it to shore but soon gave up and tried to climb out.
> 
> ...


 He tried to save it being "stupid" or not. Whatever you think of it I really don't care. I might not go to that much extreme to save an animal, cause more than likely the dog was going to die anyway. I wouldn't have jumped in there to save a human, either. But hey I'm only talking in the safety of my own home, there's no telling what I'd do given the situation. 

I'm talking about saving animals from situations that's actually possible to save them from. I'd know it's not possible to save a dog from a hot spring like that. But it is possible to save an animal from a burning barn, or from drowning, and etc. 

What if it was his friend in there? Would you still think he is stupid for jumping in? Or would you consider it a heroic attempt? I would hope you'd think the first one.


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

A horrible story to be sure...:shock: 

But here's the problem ..... sure, he may have regretted what he did due to the horror of his injuries. But how can we know that if he hadn't tried to save the dog, and watched it die yet did nothing, that he wouldn't have been so emotionally traumatized that he ended up killing himself anyhow, either with drugs or a bullet. 

now I know we have no way of knowing what would have been this man's mental state had he not done anything and lived on....

I am just speculating. And trying to make a point that sometimes doing NOTHING can do as much harm as doing something reckless....emotionally, that is.

Again, this is where we have to all follow the dictates of our conscience and stay within the boundaries we set for ourselves. 

The trick is not to disrespect others with different boundaries, and conscience.


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## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

last year we had a nasty flood at our old barn. one of my barn mates and i dug her horse out of the mud and were able to move him to a clear dry stall... but it was freezing, mud up to our thighs, horizontal rain, and he (her gelding) was panicked. If he didn't accidentally kill us with his thrashing, the pneumonia could have done us both in. But alas... i am 28 years old with no kids and i am not as particularly in touch with my mortality as i "should" be. So neither her panicked horse, nor the pneumonia ever happened. And i would do it again this very moment if i needed to.
Even if my poor mother would want to whack me over the head for it.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Given that same situation, I'm sure I wouldn't have dove in face first, but try to save my dog?? hell yes I would have tried to do something!!! My dogs and my horse are my babies and like beau mentioned, had I just watched my dog yelp and drown painfully while doing nothing I'd be so messed up emotionally I'd likely never forgive myself for it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

Beauseant said:


> But here's the problem ..... sure, he may have regretted what he did due to the horror of his injuries. But how can we know that if he hadn't tried to save the dog, and watched it die yet did nothing, that he wouldn't have been so emotionally traumatized that he ended up killing himself anyhow, either with drugs or a bullet.


Well, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have killed himself cause he couldn't save his dog.


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## Northernstar (Jul 23, 2011)

Note : reply intended to Beauseant's comment # 37....


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

Katesrider011 said:


> Well, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have killed himself cause he couldn't save his dog.


 
No, not directly...i meant more along the lines of possibly feeling guilt for doing nothing. Not that he SHOULD feel guilty if he had done nothing...of course not....just that sometimes people FEEL like they should have done this or that and didn't...and then they start to feel guilty

self imposed guilt is a very destructive emotion....

Just speculating.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> Given that same situation, I'm sure I wouldn't have dove in face first, but try to save my dog?? hell yes I would have tried to do something!!! My dogs and my horse are my babies and like beau mentioned, had I just watched my dog yelp and drown painfully while doing nothing I'd be so messed up emotionally I'd likely never forgive myself for it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When a dog starts swimming in a pool of boiling water, there really isn't much one can do. The guy did the only thing that MIGHT have helped - and if he had gotten to the dog fast enough, maybe it would be a heart-warming story.

But when you risk your life, by definition, you are taking an increased risk of dying to do something. Would I go thru an area with downed power lines? Maybe. I would be careful, and watch where I was going, but that level of risk might seem OK to me, particularly since I don't have a lot of experience with downed power lines.

But even if the chance of dying is under 50%, it is still some given probability. Emotion is a variation of conscious thought. It is faster because it doesn't review the variables. It can be more accurate, since it sometimes cues off of things we have no conscious memory of seeing. However, it can also kill us, since it ignores things we have conscious knowledge of.

When people say they are willing to die for their horse, they generally mean they are willing to accept some level of risk in order to help their horse. Icy roads? I've driven a lot of those, and would probably accept it. Barn is burning like a torch, and I can hear my horse inside? Probably not - too much chance that it would end up killing us both. Swim in 200+ deg water to save someone's dog? Nope.

The danger of the heartwarming stories is that they inform our subconscious, and make it easier to respond because, vicariously, nothing bad happened to us when we read the story. (Amazon.com: Deep Survival: Who Lives, Who Dies, and Why (9780393326154): Laurence Gonzales: Books)

An adult can free climb if they want. 






No objections. Adults can make their own choices. But even the guy in the video above assessed his risk and decided it was worth the reward. He would not have tried it if his shoulder was broken that day. That is my point. When you read a story, pause to think about it. Let your subconscious also absorb, not just that it worked this time, but that it might not the next time.

Where you draw the line is for you to decide, not me. I just want folks to think about that line, and to realize that crossing it often will result in a short life. 

I spent nearly 20 years in jet fighters before getting stuck in a succession of staff jobs. It involved risk, and I considered it acceptable. But I didn't just assume it would work out in the end. I went to too many funerals of my friends to think I was invincible.


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

I'm aware that it might not work out the same again, but it doesn't change the fact that I'd try to help, knowing me I might even go in a barn burning like a torch (Not out of thinking I'm invincible). I am a teen, but I do not have that invincible attitude, I've been proven I'm not invincible after I was put in a choke hold till unconscious by someone who had a mental attack and took it out on me. If it wasn't for my friends being there, I would be dead from that experience because he wouldn't have released me from that hold. My friends saved my life that day, and I'm grateful they were there to save me. Something or someone was on my side that day and I'm forever grateful it worked out the way it did.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

I'd still do something to save my dogs...whether people see that as logical or not, beyond all conscious reasoning, they mean that much to me not everyone has that same sort of powerful bond with their pets so I can totally understand why some would not relate, but for me doing absolutely nothing wouldn't be an option.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Kates that's awful, so sorry that happened to you :-(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> Kates that's awful, so sorry that happened to you :-(
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks, but I'm happy it happened, well not exactly happy, but it changed my outlook of life. Definitely changed that "It won't happen to me" attitude.


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

:shock: Jeez... What a fiasco. Glad everything turned out okay.

You bet I would risk my life for my horses. I love them more than anything. I would never ask anyone else to, though.


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## cakemom (Jul 4, 2010)

By the way, the most heartwarming thing of it all is the fact that so many worked together to make sure Beau had what he needed. 
Emergencies are a way of life here. My husband is a firefighter/paramedic. I have seen and heard things others wouldn't fathom, yet he will still risk his life to save anothers, and will stop and reason but then dive in brains first to save an animal. God love the people who lead with their hearts, and perserve them. Beau and his gloriously beautiful buxum sister are lucky.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SarahAnn (Oct 22, 2011)

Another thing to think about is that (I dare say, MOST Of the time) your animal would indeed risk it's life for you. If you choose not to love that animal with every bit of you, and you choose to watch it die when you possibly could have done something about it- its on your shoulders. But I know my animals would die for me, even if they knew they'd die if they were able to save me- they'd still do it. My GSP (dog) would take a bullet for me. No doubt in my mind. Look at police dogs, they take bullets and die in the line of duty all the time. It's their job! Do you think they ever stop to think, "hmmm maybe I shouldn't do this, its JUST a human..."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DraftXDressage (Aug 29, 2011)

SarahAnn said:


> Another thing to think about is that (I dare say, MOST Of the time) your animal would indeed risk it's life for you. If you choose not to love that animal with every bit of you, and you choose to watch it die when you possibly could have done something about it- its on your shoulders. But I know my animals would die for me, even if they knew they'd die if they were able to save me- they'd still do it. My GSP (dog) would take a bullet for me. No doubt in my mind. Look at police dogs, they take bullets and die in the line of duty all the time. It's their job! Do you think they ever stop to think, "hmmm maybe I shouldn't do this, its JUST a human..."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think animals think about their mortality, and I absolutely do not believe that any animal undertakes an action to protect its owner "knowing that it will die to save you." That's far too much anthropomorphizing for my tastes.

If you want to risk your life to save an animal, that's your decision, but the notion that a police dog dying in the line of duty involves some sort of conscious choice to risk its life on the part of the dog should not enter into the equation. They are animals; they may be animals that we love dearly, and they may seem like they have the most wonderful personalities in the whole world, but in-depth cause and effect reasoning and metaphysical judgments on the meaning of life and death still aren't their strong suits.


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## SarahAnn (Oct 22, 2011)

Really? I can pretend to agree with you, but I don't. I just don't feel like arguing a point that you will never budge on and neither will I. Have you ever seen the video of a dog pulling another dog out of a busy highway after it was hit by a car? I could be wrong, but I think that dog risked his life for a friend. If you went looking you could find plenty of instances when a dog risked its life to save its owner. Probably instances of horses doing the same...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Actually, most who know me would say I have a very strong bond with my animals. But they remain my animals. I've put too many dogs to sleep during my life to think they last forever. I may be miserable when one dies, but I'm not going to jump into boiling water 'because I care'!

That is just **** stupid!

I don't think the children (who were adults, as it turns out) were in near the danger the original post made it sound. If they were, and if they repeat the behavior, then the next time it may well be "Both my kids died trying to help a horse..." Maybe some here value their horses as much as their family. I don't.

Dogs are pack animals. Pack animals survive because the pack survives, which requires the pack to take chances for each other. One of my 3 dogs was bitten by a rattlesnake last month. Kiss good-by to $2400 in vet bills. But if I had to choose between my Border Collie being bitten, and my youngest daughter...do it, Jack!

I think a lot of this "I'd die for my horse" is a bunch of Internet hooey. If some deranged gunman was threatening to shoot your horse if you didn't come out and let him kill you, would you go out? I doubt very many would. Would you send your kids out to let the gunman kill them, saving your horse? Maybe - but I'd call you a pervert if you said yes.

Caring more about my kids lives than my horses doesn't make me a monster. The reverse is true.

If the burning barn had a baby and your horse, and you could save only one, and you saved the horse, you'd go to jail for murder. And I'd be glad of your conviction.


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## DraftXDressage (Aug 29, 2011)

SarahAnn said:


> Really? I can pretend to agree with you, but I don't. I just don't feel like arguing a point that you will never budge on and neither will I. Have you ever seen the video of a dog pulling another dog out of a busy highway after it was hit by a car? I could be wrong, but I think that dog risked his life for a friend. If you went looking you could find plenty of instances when a dog risked its life to save its owner. Probably instances of horses doing the same...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nowhere did I say that animals don't put their lives at risk for humans. My point is that they do no have the capacity to comprehend the risk.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

DraftXDressage said:


> They are animals; they may be animals that we love dearly, and they may seem like they have the most wonderful personalities in the whole world, but in-depth cause and effect reasoning and metaphysical judgments on the meaning of life and death still aren't their strong suits.



It is a good thing you were not in the World Trade center 10 years ago and buried under a ton of rocks. The dogs that were used to FIND living humans clearly wanted to do their jobs and you could see in the TV program they had on TV they released last month that they looked very depressed when no more living humans could be found.


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## SarahAnn (Oct 22, 2011)

Doesn't matter, and that's what's important. I would never take the time to "comprehend the risk" in an emergency situation. Not with any of my children, human, feline, canine, or equine. I don't have time for that, I have lives to save.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

DraftXDressage said:


> Nowhere did I say that animals don't put their lives at risk for humans. My point is that they do no have the capacity to comprehend the risk.


I'm not sure many of us can comprehend the state of nonexistance. Reminds me of Buddhism...

Anyway, humans are colony animals...we also thrive in groups. Actually, if you look into "altruism", you'll find that the closer related someone is, the more likely they are to save their relatives, whether it is offspring, or cousin, aunt...but the further out the relation gets, the less likely they are to save someone at risk of their own life. Why? Well...saving a relative means your genes get passed on.

At that rate, I think the dogs are more advanced (though you could say "foolish", if you want to anthropomorphize lol), because they accept non-relatives as pack, and will risk their lives anyway. Human beings have an unfortunate tendency to imagine themselves as being somehow superior to animals because we have culture, but alas, it isn't necessarily so.

Just some things to think about. I've driven on some dangerous road to go rescue animals, and thanks to this thread, I think I'll be getting my Will done, just in case. =)


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

DraftXDressage said:


> I don't think animals think about their mortality, and I absolutely do not believe that any animal undertakes an action to protect its owner "knowing that it will die to save you." That's far too much anthropomorphizing for my tastes...
> 
> ...They are animals; they may be animals that we love dearly, and they may seem like they have the most wonderful personalities in the whole world, but in-depth cause and effect reasoning and metaphysical judgments on the meaning of life and death still aren't their strong suits.


This. I love my animals for what they are, not for what I want to pretend they are.

Anyone who expects their horse to run into a burning barn to save them has watched WAY too many Disney films. 

If you are 100 yards from a charging bear, and your horse has 200 yards from the same charging bear, expect the gap to widen. Your horse isn't going to go fight the bear for you. He'll run faster. That is what horses do. That is what horses ARE.

Dog will cross a busy street for a friend. They will also try to bite the tires of passing cars. Dogs aren't real clear on what cars are and how they work. They are dogs. They are wonderful animals. They think and understand more than some give them credit for, but they don't understand about guns, bullets, and ballistics. Any more than they understand pools of boiling water...

We should love our animals for what they are, not for some imaginary movie image.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

SarahAnn said:


> ...I would never take the time to "comprehend the risk" in an emergency situation. Not with any of my children, human, feline, canine, or equine. I don't have time for that, I have lives to save.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then you won't save the lives. You will die. 

Rescue workers - real ones - assess the risk. But if you want to jump in boiling water, because you "have lives to save" and you "would never take the time to "comprehend the risk" in an emergency situation", go ahead. 

You won't be the first, nor the last. The real world is harsher than the Internet.


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

bsms said:


> Rescue workers - real ones - assess the risk.


^This is true. In any situation.


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## outnabout (Jul 23, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> I see it as people being stupid and irrational, and potentially getting themselves killed. It shocks and appalls me, not gives me the warm fuzzies about how much you 'love' your horse.


Speed Racer, warm fuzzies???? :twisted:


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## SarahAnn (Oct 22, 2011)

I do love my animals for what they are. Members of my family.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DraftXDressage (Aug 29, 2011)

Spyder said:


> It is a good thing you were not in the World Trade center 10 years ago and buried under a ton of rocks. The dogs that were used to FIND living humans clearly wanted to do their jobs and you could see in the TV program they had on TV they released last month that they looked very depressed when no more living humans could be found.


Yes, it's a wonderful blessing that I was not trapped in the WTC. I still am not sure what your point is, though, or how you think this anecdote in any way contradicts what I have said.


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## SarahAnn (Oct 22, 2011)

bsms said:


> Then you won't save the lives. You will die.


Correction: there is a CHANCE I will die. A chance I am willing to take. You're not, and that's perfectly okay with me. To each their own. I love differently then you do, that's all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

SarahAnn said:


> Correction: there is a CHANCE I will die. A chance I am willing to take. You're not, and that's perfectly okay with me. To each their own. I love differently then you do, that's all.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


More precisely, there is a greatly increased chance of your dying, and a greatly decreased chance of your saving anyone. In fact, there will be a greater chance that you will need to be rescued.

Love without a brain is a disaster.

Try training a horse using just the power of your love. You'll end up with a nightmare. Horses want a leader - a leader who THINKS. Dogs like leaders - leaders who THINK. They don't want someone who cares, but someone who cares for them. There is a world of difference.

When I was in Afghanistan, some special forces got themselves trapped in a bad spot. The staff I was on started work on a rescue plan. That is the first hint - we planned.

The special ops guy came in and demanded we do XYZ immediately. The brigade commander, who was starting his FOURTH tour in Afghanistan, glared at him. "If we do XYZ, the enemy will do ABC. Then your men are dead. My men are dead. And no one gets rescued."

Warming to the subject, he continued, "If you weren't such a DF to begin with, your men wouldn't be trapped. If you hadn't played "I've got a secret", we would have the resources and planning done to get them out. Now sit down & shut up!"

About 12 hours later, the special ops guys were rescued. No one died. Happily, the Brigade Commander believed in assessing the risk, and planning. Smart trumps heart!


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Would I risk my life for my horse? Yes.

I don't care if this isn't a disney film or a lifetime special as previous posters have said. These horses are what I live for. I have woken myself up screaming because of nightmares from my riding accidents, not because I was hurt but because the thought of my horse being injured sent me into a panic.

I don't buy the whole "A humans life is more important" crap. It's that attitude that is making humans the overpopulated parasite of planet earth. The human race, the more of us live, the more our planet dies. This is why I am not afraid. I'm not afraid to die, because I know that the less humans on the planet, the better. However I will not deliberately cause harm upon myself. I will just do what I can to be sure the planet lives for as long as it possibly can. We've killed so many beautiful things for the sake of advancement.

I could give you my long drawn out story about the frightening time a strange man came onto my property and threatened my horses, but I didn't come here to do that. I came strictly to say that YES, I would risk my life in a heart beat for my horse.


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## Bay Lee (Aug 27, 2011)

I would risk my life for my horse..And I bet ya, everyone who says they would not, would also, ...If something would happen, and you equine was in a life threatening situation, your adrenaline would kick in, and you probably would risk your life..
A few months back, here in NB, a 16 year old girl rescued 15 horses from a burning barn, She could not save her own horse from the fire..If you would of asked her the day before if she would run into a burning barn, she would of probably said no way...


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Had to share  This horse could have just bolted away, it's not like his owner could really stop him...but he didn't. He trusted her instead, despite his instincts, and helped her save a little boy.


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

bsms said:


> Then you won't save the lives. You will die.
> 
> Rescue workers - real ones - assess the risk. But if you want to jump in boiling water, because you "have lives to save" and you "would never take the time to "comprehend the risk" in an emergency situation", go ahead.
> 
> You won't be the first, nor the last. The real world is harsher than the Internet.



Not true- You won't always die if you jump into a situation. It just increases your chance. 

True- Rescue Workers do assess the risk, they are trained to. 

Some people are willing to take bold chances to save an animal, get over it. If you won't then fine. I'm not worried about my life. More than likely I'd think before I'd just jump into the decision. But in such dire situations sometimes you have to limit your thinking time.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Oh and to the comments about trying to save my dog from a hot spring being "stupid"...let me clarify that I DID say I wouldn't jump in head first without thinking as that guy did. What I SAID is that I wouldn't just sit there and watch my faithful companion die a slow torturous death. I would TRY to do SOMETHING! Even if that something consisted of me stepping in and burning my legs alone (which I could surely recover from) and throwing something out to reach my dog/calling him over to me. My point is that he means too much to me to just SIT there and let him DIE like I don't give a crap about his life.

Someone else said it well earlier...God created them just the same as He created us, and I respect and love that. I took on the responsibility of dog ownership and when I am responsible for a living breathing being, I respect and care for that being the way I would anything else. NOW to clarify for those who have children, I have NOT in any way, shape, or form said that if I had a child and a dog and could only save ONE of them for some strange reason, it would be the dog. BUUUUT I don't HAVE any children, so I don't HAVE to make that choice!  

AND if I DID have a child, and for some odd reason both the child and my horse were in a burning barn, I would run in and save the child first, THEN go back in for my horse! My point is, I would always do my best to TRY...doesn't mean I'd always succeed, but to me you have to be just a little bit evil or self centered not to even BOTHER doing anything at all...


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## Bay Lee (Aug 27, 2011)

what an amazing story, thanks for sharing...


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> Oh and to the comments about trying to save my dog from a hot spring being "stupid"...let me clarify that I DID say I wouldn't jump in head first without thinking as that guy did. What I SAID is that I wouldn't just sit there and watch my faithful companion die a slow torturous death. I would TRY to do SOMETHING! Even if that something consisted of me stepping in and burning my legs alone (which I could surely recover from) and throwing something out to reach my dog/calling him over to me. My point is that he means too much to me to just SIT there and let him DIE like I don't give a crap about his life.
> 
> Someone else said it well earlier...God created them just the same as He created us, and I respect and love that. I took on the responsibility of dog ownership and when I am responsible for a living breathing being, I respect and care for that being the way I would anything else. NOW to clarify for those who have children, I have NOT in any way, shape, or form said that if I had a child and a dog and could only save ONE of them for some strange reason, it would be the dog. BUUUUT I don't HAVE any children, so I don't HAVE to make that choice!
> 
> AND if I DID have a child, and for some odd reason both the child and my horse were in a burning barn, I would run in and save the child first, THEN go back in for my horse! My point is, I would always do my best to TRY...doesn't mean I'd always succeed, but to me you have to be just a little bit evil or self centered not to even BOTHER doing anything at all...


I don't care who you are. No one can tell me they can listen to a panicking animal and not do a little something to try to help it.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

I'm with you kates but sadly there are some people who could very easily do just that :-(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

Would I risk my life?

Who knows. I don't think anyone knows until they are in one of those situations.

You can say, "Yeah, I would," or, "No, I wouldn't," but you don't really know until you are personally faced with the situation.

I'd like to think that I'd try to save my horse, but I don't know. I have lots of loved ones who would be crushed if I intentionally put myself in a life-threatening situation.

Actually, I once put my mom in tears from putting myself in a semi-dangerous situation.
Sunny panicked while tied, and for some reason her quick release knot did not work so I ran in to try to set her loose before she broke her neck.
But, as soon as I was smashed in the head by her head I quickly backed off and let her calm down.

It all depends.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Sunny that's very true...we can speculate all we want but we never really know until we've been faced with a situation like that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Oh just throwing this out there too...if animals wouldn't dare bother to save us and dogs only save other members of their herd, then why would a horse bother to do this? I don't know, call me crazy all you want, but I give a lot more credit to my horse's personality, feelings, and motives than some on here are doing.

Heroic horse saves woman from death by cow | Horsetalk - International equestrian news


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> Oh just throwing this out there too...if animals wouldn't dare bother to save us and dogs only save other members of their herd, then why would a horse bother to do this? I don't know, call me crazy all you want, but I give a lot more credit to my horse's personality, feelings, and motives than some on here are doing.
> 
> Heroic horse saves woman from death by cow | Horsetalk - International equestrian news


You know cause some people tend to "know" what an animal can or can't think. No, I don't think animals think quite like humans, but some people take that thought too far and view them like they are some kind of inferior or something. And I don't believe animals were put on this planet to serve humans because a silly book tells me so. I believe an animal deserves to be saved. Just cause nature made humans smarter, doesn't mean we're better. Hell I haven't seen any other species so intelligent that they start destroying the earth with their advancements.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I've known horses that don't like cows, and horses are generally not afraid of cows. The horse was not in any danger from the cow.

Horses can also trust their rider. But no, a horse will not knowingly give its life for you. They don't think in those terms. Horses and dogs live in the present. They don't think about their mortality. They are wonderful animals, and part of what makes them wonderful is that they are NOT humans.

You cannot love what you do not accept. Some women will marry a man, and then immediately set to work trying to change him. That is because they do not love him. They love WHAT THEY WANT HIM TO BECOME.

You cannot love the Grand Canyon from a picture. Until you go there, and experience it as it is, you cannot love it. You can love pictures if you wish, but you are missing the reality if you settle for the image.

If your dogs, cats, or horses are your "babies", then you do not love them. You are using them to meet your emotional needs by projecting an idea of them that the dog, cat or horse has not agreed to. Until you grant that they are an independent creature, outside of you, and are what they are, you cannot love them. You can only love your imaginary idea of them.

Rant over. Last post by me on this thread, since I doubt I will ever agree with the majority here. But as a husband, a father, and grandfather, and someone who has owned a lot of dogs and now has some horses - when you love someone, you love what they are. You don't try to make them into something they can never be.


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

Disagree. I love my animals more than you will ever know. Just cause I view animals differently doesn't mean I don't _love_ them. 

Dont be so arrogant.


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## Courtney (May 20, 2011)

As much as I love my animals, I would never risk my life for them. I plan in advance so I never have to risk my life - I leave travel kennels within easy reach of my hedgehog cages that are packed and ready to go in the case of a fire/emergency evacuation. At most, it will take me an additional 5 seconds to load a hedgehog into the kennel and go. Leashes are kept on top of my dogs' kennel and can be snapped on in an instant. They are ready to go. At the very most, getting my animals to safety will add an additional 10 seconds to my evacuation time, which is about the same time it would take someone else to grab what is valuable to them.

I have been known to reach between two dogs and separate them. I will enter a stall with a distressed horse, despite the risk. But I will NEVER put myself in a crazy situation where my death could be imminent. If I die trying to care for them, who will continue? I need to preserve my safety in order to preserve their safety. I will do everything in my power to save them, but I will never, ever risk my life.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

bsms said:


> If your dogs, cats, or horses are your "babies", then you do not love them. You are using them to meet your emotional needs by projecting an idea of them that the dog, cat or horse has not agreed to. Until you grant that they are an independent creature, outside of you, and are what they are, you cannot love them. You can only love your imaginary idea of them.


Yeah you're right, caring for her and making sure she's comfortable and healthy and doesn't have to worry about where her next meal comes from is just terrible. I should just put her out in a field and forget about her, since WILD horses don't have people to take care of them, right? And for that matter, you ride right? Well, I don't believe nature intended for us to sit on top of horses in a predatory manner, so why are you trying to CHANGE your horse to benefit you? :roll: You must not love your horse at all, huh?


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

I don't see how you can argue that animals don't have any idea of their mortality. Doesnt the life of any animal, human or creature, have the same main goal? To stay alive and reproduce. 

Of course they know they're mortal. Why do horses spook? Or dogs bite when they're threatened? They're trying to preserve their mortality. 

I'm not arguing that they don't live in the present, I'm sure they don't sit around pondering "what if" ituations. 

On the saving your life situations, if you are part of that animals herd or pack, they will protect you like they will one of their own. Because you are one of their own.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I've removed a bunch of posts for crossing the line in civility. It is fine to disagree with each other. And folks are welcome to jump in my chili, although none of the removed posts referenced me or my arguments in any way.

Please remember that all of us are here because we love horses and want to do better by them. Exploring what is meant by love, or discussing what horses know or don't know, and why we believe that - that is fine. Attacking each others' character is not.

I thought I had made my last post here, and I do not wish to contribute further to the subject of this thread. For the record, I wish y'all well, and hope you have a great time with your horses. Those who strongly disagree with me are welcome to do so...it isn't like I don't hold strong opinions myself.

But if the debate gets personal, I'll need to close the thread.  This has been an interesting thread...please keep it that way.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

bsms said:


> But no, a horse will not knowingly give its life for you. They don't think in those terms. Horses and dogs live in the present. They don't think about their mortality.


The dog WILL sacrifice the life for you if it loves your truly. I know too many stories (not the fairy tales, but real ones) on that. Moreover I know several stories when cats were risking their lives for the owner. I'm not sure about horses - I have to dig, but there are likely some too.


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

Did I miss some posts? I did not see where anyone crossed the lines of civility. I see a lively debate where emotions run high, and two opposing sides are trying to explain their stance. 


bsms, you are doing a great job keeping your eye on this post and I sincerely enjoy reading your input....even if i see things a bit differently. 

You have a tough job, moderating this thread without squashing the debate...it's a fine line....but all too often I have seen forums where one of two things happen...the moderator goes into hyperdrive and starts deleting things right and left that are really not all that offensive...or they do nothing and allow posters to be cursed at and ridiculed.

I am sorry you felt as though you had to delete some comments...I didn't see where things were brewing into a flame war...but I may have missed some posts... 

I have read so many interesting stories, and viewpoints on here...i've not seen anyone crossing the line. I guess i missed it while i was at the farm tending to the horses...

Serendiptious' posts seem to be missing..


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Beauseant said:


> Did I miss some posts? I did not see where anyone crossed the lines of civility...


I hope you missed some posts. That is why I acted quickly.

And I've removed a couple more now.

Removed posts do not die. There are moved to a section where moderators can review them. I have done so, and asked other moderators to check on what I did. If the other moderators believe those posts contribute to a helpful, encouraging discussion, they will be moved back to this thread. On this forum, no moderator acts without review.

If any of the posters are missing their posts, and want to know why, you can PM me or ask the other moderators. I hope I haven't offended anyone, and if I have, I apologize. I've enjoyed the discussion, and am glad Beauseant started the discussion. I hope others have found it interesting as well.


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

bsms said:


> I hope you missed some posts. That is why I acted quickly.
> 
> And I've removed a couple more now.
> 
> ...


 
This is one of the best moderated and enjoyable forums on the internet...and one of only two i participate in (on ANY subject matter), the other one i visit only sparingly as offensive words are used and tolerated.


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

I have another question for everyone: If YOUR children were adults and able to make their own decisions, would YOU be mad if your adult children had run off into a woods with downed wires to get to the vet to save their horse??? In other words, if your adult children had risked their llives the way mine did, would you admire them or be mad at them?

Cause sometimes I admire my son for his dedication to trying to save his horse, other times I feel peeved that he didn't think of what would happen to ME if he had died... He is my only son, and my best friend.... 

My daughter is just a nut....lol. BTW< She's the one who bought him this horse for his 18th birthday two years ago.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

I'd probably admire them... but then again they're fine and hindsight is 20/20 ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

Good point.

If i were planning his funeral right now, I might be inclined to be feeling something other than admiration..


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## jumpingrules92 (Aug 2, 2011)

bsms said:


> I've known horses that don't like cows, and horses are generally not afraid of cows. The horse was not in any danger from the cow.
> 
> Horses can also trust their rider. But no, a horse will not knowingly give its life for you. They don't think in those terms. Horses and dogs live in the present. They don't think about their mortality. They are wonderful animals, and part of what makes them wonderful is that they are NOT humans.
> 
> ...



I agree with this 100000%. So well said.


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## SMCLeenie (Mar 3, 2011)

I realize I'm a little late to this thread, and I don't want to rile up anyone but I do want to state my opinion.

Would I risk my life for my horse?
At this moment I say yes. If he was in danger and there was something I could do, you bet I would be doing it. The same goes for my dogs. I will do anything. I am young and while all my ideas of being "invincible" were shattered last August, I do think that my youth plays some part in this willingness. I do not have a boyfriend/husband/child. No one depends on me more than my horse. I'm not saying he's my "baby" because that isn't how I view him, but he is the creature in this world that counts on me the most. How could I not try to save him?


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

Depends alot on the situation and level of risk. If I was guaranteed to die, then probably not, even if my horse was guaranteed to live (party because, what happens to my horse then?). I will take risks to save my loved ones, and that includes the pets in my life, but I will consider the risks, and I don't panic. I wouldn't, for example, jump into boiling water to save my pet, most likely he's already gone, and killing myself to isn't going to help anyone. 

I don't have children, but if I did and was in a situation where I could only save one, I'd save my children, as it is I'd save my nephews or siblings (most of them), or parents. But if it was between my pet and a stranger? I'm not likely to save that stranger before my own pet. May be crazy to some, but people have been sued for trying to be a good samaritan, which may be why so many don't want to get involved. Atleast if it's an animal, it may not be greatful, but it's not going to make things worse for you. That said, again depending on the situation and level of risk, I probably would take alot of risk to help a stranger.

Possibly alittle off topic, but did anyone see the video of the 2 year old chinese girl that got run over? Twice? While people just walked by ignoring her? I'd atleast like to see people that try and fail, then people who could care less. 

All that said I would NOT want my family members risking their lives for me or my animals, so I guess in that way I am a hypocrite.


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## Kelly22790 (Oct 23, 2011)

Where do I start? Firstly, thank you for sharing.

A life is a life. There are no lives that are "more important" than others. This is a hard thing for people to accept. It requires many things that people do not like to do. One of them, is to face their own fears. Spiders', snakes', and bears' lives are just as much alive as our own. Yet, then, why do we squish spiders and say "it's only a spider." Fear -- Irrational fear to be specific. What harm was the spider really doing? Probably nothing. I am not, by any means, saying that defending yourself against an attacking deadly spider or snake is putting more value on your life over theirs; that is merely instinct, we are biological designed to defend our own life in times of need (either by running or fighting). Another is that, perhaps, forgiveness is required. It is often times hard for us to see another's life just as valuable as our's after they have hurt us & we have not yet forgiven them. Whatever the reason may be, the truth is, without a doubt or room for negotiation: A life is a life. I beg those of you who do not think so to take some time and think about why you believe that one life is superior to another's. REALLY think about it and think about WHY you think that way. You might find that the reason has more to do with yourself than anything else.


With that being said, life is driven by two things: Change & Chance. Change is the constant. It is inevitable -- we can not escape it. Change is another word for time. Chance, then, is our responses and adaptations to change. I do not have children but I know that if I did I would want them to be individuals that understand that change is going to come no matter what and that while it is okay to be hurt, angry, upset, happy, excited by a change, that it is NOT okay to forget about chance. Chance is our defense! We are adaptable creatures....that is our gift! We take chances in order to deal with the inevitable changes that make up time. Why is it then, that some people are against taking chances? I can not speak for anyone but my guess would be that they either are resisting change (the inevitable) or they are scared of the chance. Neither one of those things work.

If a life is a life and in life you must take chances to adapt to inevitable change.....then why would you do anything BUT what this young man did for his horse? He was presented with a change and he took a chance; the fact that the chance was based on a human life VS a horse life did not matter because he obviously understands that life is valuable in itself...no matter the source that is comes from. Momma, you should be proud! Looks like you did good X2, seeing as your daughter followed suit. Thanks for putting two wonderful people into the world. And for those of you who do not believe that a life is a life think then you can think about it this way....If these two would do such a thing for a horse, you can bet that if it was a person dying up in that barn that they would do the exact same. I don't know about you all but I think that those kind of people are wonderful people to have in the world.

I also want to address some comments about it being selfish to risk your own life due to children being dependent on you. Does this really have to do with how your children would REALLY feel if you died or is it based on how you would feel if yours died at a young age? The truth is is that we do not know, especially in death, what exactly anyone else is thinking or how another will react (unless, of course, we ask...and even then there runs a risk of not knowing completely). Of course your children would be hurt if you died. They would be hurt if you died regardless of the cause. But, and while this is another hard thing for people to accept, time brings more change and with more change those children who have lost their parents are able to have the CHANCE to grow & learn from one awful change that happened in their life. If you have taught them well enough then they will be able to get through something horrible such as losing a parent and find happiness again. You can not protect children from everything (you can not stop change). Bad things happen to ALL people and ALL living things. If you do not let your children take chances, then that is the equivalent of this woman PUSHING her two children down the mountain and straight into the live wire. Let them adapt. Accept it. It is their armor - YOU are not.

Committing suicide and taking a chance in order to save something that you love are two very different things. Taking a chance isn't automatic suicide. If a death was involved (the childrens or the horses) in this story, of course it would make the story more heartbreaking. However, I would just lastly like to note that when I die I hope I am doing something that I love or dying for something that I love. Death will come eventually (another hard fact), so what better way than to be carried out with love? I know no other way.

My post is not intended to offend anyone or directed at anyone specific. It is just my simple little opinion on the things that I read here tonight.

Goodnight & I am glad that this situation turned out well.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

Wow,what a story!

I would risk my life..I do not have kids but I have fur kids and they are just as important to me as humans.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

kelly22790 said:


> where do i start? Firstly, thank you for sharing.
> 
> A life is a life. There are no lives that are "more important" than others. This is a hard thing for people to accept. It requires many things that people do not like to do. One of them, is to face their own fears. Spiders', snakes', and bears' lives are just as much alive as our own. Yet, then, why do we squish spiders and say "it's only a spider." fear -- irrational fear to be specific. What harm was the spider really doing? Probably nothing. I am not, by any means, saying that defending yourself against an attacking deadly spider or snake is putting more value on your life over theirs; that is merely instinct, we are biological designed to defend our own life in times of need (either by running or fighting). Another is that, perhaps, forgiveness is required. It is often times hard for us to see another's life just as valuable as our's after they have hurt us & we have not yet forgiven them. Whatever the reason may be, the truth is, without a doubt or room for negotiation: A life is a life. I beg those of you who do not think so to take some time and think about why you believe that one life is superior to another's. Really think about it and think about why you think that way. You might find that the reason has more to do with yourself than anything else.
> 
> ...


beautifully said! :d


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## SarahAnn (Oct 22, 2011)

i cant believe this is still going on. Interesting though... I thought an animal lover was an animal lover, but apparently not.


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

I won't be any good to anyone else or any other horses, so if it puts me in a possibly fatal position, the horse will go before me. If I died for my horse, what's it suppose to do when it now has no one to pay for it and its well-being?

I'd like to read a story about someone risking their life for their heart horse or something, but it would be just that, a story; not real life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## caseymyhorserocks (Apr 5, 2010)

Yes. Totally.


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## Northernstar (Jul 23, 2011)

Outstanding! Thanks for sharing!!


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## hillree (Dec 30, 2010)

This is a tough question... not one I can answer easily. Not too long ago, I saw a true story on TV about a guy who jumped in the ocean to save his dog from a shark swimming under it! When I saw it, I asked myself... would I have done the same for my dog? What about for my cats or my horse?

I'll probably never know for sure until I'm faced with a situation like that. Most of me thinks that yes, if my house was on fire I would run back in for my pets. It may not be the best or smartest idea, and I'm sure my family and friends would KILL me if I died trying to save my animals. But the thought of my furry best friends being trapped and scared is just something I doubt I'd be able to handle. :-( 

I remember years ago, when I was around 13, there was a tornado warning in the area. My house didn't have a basement, so my parents said we would go to their friends' house which would be safer. But then they told me we would have to leave the pets because they wouldn't get along with the animals in the other house. The thought of saving ourselves and leaving our pets there horrified me. I refused to leave the house without them, but my dad and his powers of persuasion (sigh, parents.) forced me out. I remember feeling miserable the whole time we were out... I felt like I betrayed and abandoned them. Luckily, no tornadoes touched down in the area. All was well!


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

I think both sides have made some good points. I however do think that as a parent I have a different set of guidlines to follow. I find this post particularly offensive:



> I also want to address some comments about it being selfish to risk your own life due to children being dependent on you. Does this really have to do with how your children would REALLY feel if you died or is it based on how you would feel if yours died at a young age? The truth is is that we do not know, especially in death, what exactly anyone else is thinking or how another will react (unless, of course, we ask...and even then there runs a risk of not knowing completely). Of course your children would be hurt if you died. They would be hurt if you died regardless of the cause. But, and while this is another hard thing for people to accept, time brings more change and with more change those children who have lost their parents are able to have the CHANCE to grow & learn from one awful change that happened in their life. If you have taught them well enough then they will be able to get through something horrible such as losing a parent and find happiness again. You can not protect children from everything (you can not stop change). Bad things happen to ALL people and ALL living things. If you do not let your children take chances, then that is the equivalent of this woman PUSHING her two children down the mountain and straight into the live wire. Let them adapt. Accept it. It is their armor - YOU are not.


Read more: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-talk/would-you-risk-your-life-your-101923/page10/#ixzz1cVRgVDHJ
When I took on the role of being a parent, I did not do so lightly. It is a huge responsibility. It isn't just about taking care of their physical needs. Anybody can do that. I am raising three girls to be women one day. I want them to be the best possible adults they can be. 

I am terrified of leaving my children before they can become adults. It has nothing to do with me thinking they will never get over my death...of course they will. But in case you haven't noticed, there aren't people lining up to take on other peoples children. The foster care system is full of children that NOBODY wants. How many of those kids do you think turn out to be model members of the community? I want more for my kids. And don't get me wrong here....there are some very good foster parents out there, but they are few and far between. This isn't a disney movie where everything just turns out ok no matter what. 

I love my horse and dogs as much as any of you do. My first obligation, however, is to my children.

For anyone that thinks their livestock has the same value as a child are either childless or idiots.


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## tassinari (Jul 15, 2011)

I couldnt have said it better Sandy. Kids are a parents number one priority. NO ONE values and loves them more than their parents. That is if they have decent parents. We have great plans made up for who would raise them if we died. However it sickens me to think if that happened. Because as wonderful my sister and law is, they arent HERS. 

And to think a child is going to look at a situation where their parent died for an animal and think that child isnt going to have some strong negative feelings is delusional. Possibly some will. Change and chance might happen. Parents die yes. But to put yourself in a position where you die saving an animal is just bad parenting. Darwinism maybe? Lol. 

Before I was a mother I might have. As soon as I saw those two pink lines with my first son my entire perspective of love, life, and what is important changed as it does for most of us. 

I would however do a quick risk analysis and if serious injury or death wasnt involved of course I would try and save my furry babies!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

tassinari said:


> I couldnt have said it better Sandy. Kids are a parents number one priority. NO ONE values and loves them more than their parents. That is if they have decent parents. We have great plans made up for who would raise them if we died. However it sickens me to think if that happened. Because as wonderful my sister and law is, they arent HERS.
> 
> And to think a child is going to look at a situation where their parent died for an animal and think that child isnt going to have some strong negative feelings is delusional. Possibly some will. Change and chance might happen. Parents die yes. But to put yourself in a position where you die saving an animal is just bad parenting. Darwinism maybe? Lol.
> 
> ...


I applaud you for this last part of the statement...see, to me I don't have children but I'm sure if I did I would feel very different, like you say above. But I do like that you (unlike some others) don't say that your animals are "just animals" and you'd do nothing to save them. We all do quick risk analysis before jumping into any situation, even if that analysis only lasts a split second. You obviously care for your children AND for your animals, which I commend you for.


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