# The North Experience



## mmshiro

Tihannah said:


> Several people told me - DON'T get a TB. "They're crazy!" "They hard keepers and you can't keep weight on them!" North defies all the stereotypes.


You know what my response to that remark would be? "Horses mimic the emotional state of their handlers." Once they are detoxed from their racing career, given a few weeks to decompress with pasture, buddies, and freedom to move, they will still be sensitive horses, but they'll need someone to actually _drive_ them crazy to become that way.


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## Golden Horse

Third time a charm? So glad that North is working out so well, you deserve a good one.


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## Tihannah

mmshiro said:


> You know what my response to that remark would be? "Horses mimic the emotional state of their handlers." Once they are detoxed from their racing career, given a few weeks to decompress with pasture, buddies, and freedom to move, they will still be sensitive horses, but they'll need someone to actually _drive_ them crazy to become that way.


Oh, the other one I forgot was them being tight over their backs. My old trainer literally shut me down before I could even tell her about him. She pretty much hates TBs, so I knew it would not be a good environment to try and develop him in. I think we are both right where we should be.


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## egrogan

Can’t wait to follow along. He is a really nice looking horse!


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## DanteDressageNerd

Im so glad you found each other and are making such progress. I think it's a perfect match and you made the right decision for yourself. Tbs are very sensitive but willing to adapt.

I think your trainer, like a lot of dressage people cant ride a thoroughbred. Theyre sensitive and cant be bullied or manipulated and wont tolerate what a wb will. Wbs have a different brain and mentality. Tbs are often quicker thinking, listen and need a real horseman and someone they can turn to and trust. If someone cant provide that they shut down and get scared.


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## swimminchikin

Subbing!


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## NavigatorsMom

Yay, I've been waiting for you to start a journal about your new guy!! Can't wait to see how things go - third time's the charm!


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## jaydee

I just love the look of this horse
From my own experiences of having quite a lot of TB's and OTTB's the problem ones tend to be the way they've been made rather than them being born that way.
If you deal with things like ulcers that a lot of the OTTB's can come with then they aren't hard keepers - they won't all live out in harsh weather without some blanketing/shelter but that isn't really the definition of a hard keeper.
The last two we had came to us on the 'poor side' but soon turned into porkers that needed restricted grazing when they weren't in hard work!!


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## carshon

North is quite stunning. And I am glad you found your happy place again. Our Hobbies should make us happy!


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## Tihannah

I will try to get some video posted tonight, but Helen is going out of town tomorrow for a few days again, so last night I asked her to just hop on him to evaluate him for me. She rode him for about 30 minutes, just at the walk, and taught him a few things - a balanced halt, moving his shoulders and hind, moving off the leg, and just overall response to the leg. He picked up on things so quickly! They walked over a few poles and then she got off and said to me - "Tina, honestly, I don't think he's a jumper. I could be wrong, but I don't think he's hot enough to be a great jumper. But...I think he can EASILY go upper level dressage." 

She's going to try to squeeze in another ride tonight just to reinforce what he learned last night and give us some homework to do while she's gone. She really wants us to spend the next couple weeks at the walk to refine the communication and continue with the groundwork. He looked amazing last night for a first ride. I am simply giddy right now. Giddy! Below are just a few shots from last night.


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## PoptartShop

Oh, those people who stereotype TB's are out of their minds. :lol:
But, they are definitely not for everyone. They are very willing, but only if you put the effort in & respect them. They're sensitive & definitely not 'push-button' horses.

I have dealt with a lot of OTTB's & they have all taught me something. They are all so unique. North reminds me a LOT of my girl Promise. 

One lady I know told me she HATES Tb's because they all have serious issues & they're 'exhausting'. :lol: LOL, can't relate with mine! 
People tried to talk me out of getting MY OTTB & now they are like woah! :lol:

North needed you and you needed him.  

I am SO happy you have North now. I can tell he has those soft eyes (eyes tell ALL) & he took to you right away.  Subbing, I am so excited to see where you two go! <3

It is GREAT you are doing all of this groundwork with him, too. It will pay off, & I can tell it already is. It will make your bond so much stronger too.  You are doing everything right with him. <3


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## Tazzie

EEK! I can't wait to see video!!

I'm so happy everything is working out so well!! YAY!


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## sarahfromsc

I hope the best for you. After your trials and tribulations you need a good ‘un!

I must have missed it, but did you move to a different barn?


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## Tihannah

sarahfromsc said:


> I hope the best for you. After your trials and tribulations you need a good ‘un!
> 
> I must have missed it, but did you move to a different barn?


Yes, it's small and quiet and the grass is lush and plentiful. A handful of us came over from the old barn and it's just really pleasant where everyone looks out for each other's horses.


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## sarahfromsc

Changed is sometimes just what is needed to grow.

I really, really hope you do t have to horse shop again for a looooooonnnnngggggg time!

I really like the looks of him!


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## Tihannah

sarahfromsc said:


> Changed is sometimes just what is needed to grow.
> 
> I really, really hope you do t have to horse shop again for a looooooonnnnngggggg time!
> 
> I really like the looks of him!


Me too!! Lol. Unless i somehow win the lotto, he will likely be my last horse. We have plenty of time to grow old together! ;-)


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## seabiscuit91

I have been waiting impatiently for you to start a new journal! Haha

Congrats, he's absolutely stunning! Having a clean slated baby after all you've been through must be so refreshing and rewarding!


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## Tihannah

Good news and bad news...

The bad news is that I didn't get any video.

The good news is it's because Helen made me ride instead. Lol. But I promise I will get some this weekend!

She decided that it would be better since she was going out of town for a few days, and wanted to make sure I could get the same results when she wasn't there, so it turned into a lesson for both of us. I'm honestly glad she did too. We went over everything she taught him yesterday and he literally forgot nothing. It was only BETTER today. We worked in the roundpen.

He's super soft in the mouth and rounds his neck almost naturally, so Helen reiterated to me that I needed to totally leave his head alone and only work with my seat and legs. She said that because he was so soft in the mouth, we didn't want to teach him to duck behind the vertical. I was only allowed to use an open inside rein when I wanted to push him out. It was so much easier than what I was used to with Forrest and Tess and praise was the golden ticket for North. Each time I praised him for the correct response, it only got better the next time. Yesterday was the first time he'd been taught the halt. Today it was flawless and instant with just the use of my seat. No rein contact whatsoever. I was literally amazed. If I told you how exhausting it was trying to teach Forrest a proper halt for a YEAR and he still didn't have it by the time he left! Tess would halt, but you couldn't get her going again! Lol.

We worked on bending to the inside and outside, lots of change of directions, straight poles, then poles set up in a square, changing direction in the square, and halting in the square. He did so good in all of it, so for the first time... I got to trot! And he was fabulous! Omg, and I don't think I've ever appreciated such a smooth trot so much. Forrest had a gorgeous trot with lots of suspension, but each step was throwing you out of the saddle. With North, I could maintain my position and move him over, and not touch his mouth and it felt incredible. And when I asked him to walk with my seat, it was instant.

We kept the ride short, about 25-30 min. Helen said that he was doing so well that we didn't want to overwhelm him and for awhile, I should keep all work around 30 min. I rode him back to the barn with Helen walking next to us (just in case) and he remained relaxed the entire time. She said that seeing how amazing he was doing seriously made her want to get a clean slate baby to develop. Lol. Like me, she has had some tough horses with a lot of baggage.

And again, I sit here and wonder - HOW did this happen?? How did this amazing horse just happen to land in my lap under the circumstances he did? All I can say is the equestrian angels above must be smiling down on me and I am so very grateful.


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## Dwarf

Oh wow he's gorgeous! I've read your journal on occasion since when you were leasing Tess, and it's so lovely to see you with a horse who seems like a perfect fit! I hope you have a wonderful journey with North.


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## Hidalgo13

He looks and sounds AMAZING! Congrats! It seems like you were both made for each other, and that you have the perfect trainer to lead you both in the right direction.  Looking forward to more pics and videos of you guys.


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## PoptartShop

That is amazing. Using your seat is the way to go, & it sounds like he is such a quick learner & does not need much rein contact to slow down/stop. That is GREAT. A lot of people rely on the reins, when really, your seat is the answer! All about the seat.

& I am so happy you got to feel his trot.  I am glad it's smooth!! I'm sure it's nothing like what you are used to. 

Helen sounds like a great trainer & she wants the best for you & your horse, which is SO important. Isn't it crazy how things happen? So unexpectedly. I love it!!

You deserve it. All of the things you have been through with the others have taught you a lot, & now that you have North, things are a lot better all around.


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## Tihannah

PoptartShop said:


> That is amazing. Using your seat is the way to go, & it sounds like he is such a quick learner & does not need much rein contact to slow down/stop. That is GREAT. A lot of people rely on the reins, when really, your seat is the answer! All about the seat.
> 
> & I am so happy you got to feel his trot.  I am glad it's smooth!! I'm sure it's nothing like what you are used to.
> 
> Helen sounds like a great trainer & she wants the best for you & your horse, which is SO important. Isn't it crazy how things happen? So unexpectedly. I love it!!
> 
> You deserve it. All of the things you have been through with the others have taught you a lot, & now that you have North, things are a lot better all around.


Yes!! This! ^^^ Helen is not just a trainer, but also a good friend. I swear I have to force her to take money from me for lessons! Lol. But she only wants to see me succeed. And even though she never succeeded with Forrest, she never gave up trying to help me with him.

I've been holding this in for a long time, but I honestly just need to vent...

I was DEVOTED to my old barn and trainer, and did everything I could to help out or promote the place. I'd work shows, schedule clinics, take care of flight arrangements for the clinician. Me and my guy designed the new barn logo that everyone used for shirts and saddle pads and signs for the barn. I'd spend the entire day at clinics videoing everyone's rides and make a compilation video for the BO to post on her website. It didn't matter if I didn't ride until 2pm, I was there at 8am to catch the first ride. On holidays, when she couldn't get barn workers to show up, my guy and I would go out and help clean stalls and take care of the horses.

But when it came to me and my progress and learning, I was an afterthought. I literally have not lessoned with her since before Tess left. When I first got Forrest, she hopped on him and tried to strong arm him into the contact. When it didn't work, she got mad, and had nothing else to do with us. There were many a day when I was out there on my own struggling with him, and she'd walk right past us and not say a word. Offer not one inkling of help. But if she saw me working with Helen, she'd get mad or annoyed. We literally had to do lessons in secret when we knew she wasn't there so there wouldn't be any animosity, even though she never wanted to work with us.

When I stopped regularly riding Forrest because he was working with the horsemanship guy, I told her I was getting depressed not being able to ride. She suggested a few horses I could ride, and I thought "Oh, that's great. Maybe I will." Then she'd say "Okay, I have another lesson at 5p and then you can go after them." So no, not actually a horse you can get some ride time in, but pay me, and I'll give you a lesson. And frankly, by that point, and all that I had learned from Helen, I didn't want to lesson with her anymore. And then I was told that she was ridiculing the groundwork I had being done with Forrest and that it was stupid and pointless. Helen encouraged me to ride her schoolmaster mare to help me learn. Would teach me on her and refuse to take money for it. "She needs the exercise," she'd say.

I tried to tell her about North month's before he came. I texted her a pic and her response was, "OMG! Tell me more!" When I told her he was an OTTB, she stopped responding. When I saw her in person and tried to bring it up again, she didn't even let me finish. "DON'T get a TB! They're crazy and blah, blah, blah. You need to work on your seat more that way you have a better range of options for a horse." I was mad and said, "Improving my seat doesn't change my budget and I don't want another senior with either health or training problems I have to fix!" I never mentioned it to her again, so she probably thought I'd moved on from the idea. Later I told Helen about it and said, "How the hell would she know how good my seat is when she hasn't lessoned with me in over a year??!" 

I still remember lessons with her on Tess when she would be yelling at me to "Get her head down! More!" and I had no idea how to achieve that. Helen never yells or tells you to just DO something. She teaches you HOW to achieve the end goal instead. Even now when I keep asking her what she wants to charge for putting the basics on North, she just says, "I don't know..." and then changes the subject. Lol. 

So yea, it felt good to get that all out. We're in a better place now surrounded by people who support our improvement. It's a total win-win and I can't wait to continue proving her wrong with North. I post the hell out of him on social media, just so she can see how amazing my "crazy" OTTB is. Lol.


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## KigerQueen

Glad you found a trainer. some people dont like my trainer but she works well for me and explains how to do things, not just yell at me. And i own an arab and i deal with ALL the crap about how they are Stupid, crazy, Reactive, you cant do anything with them, blah blah. my arab used to be more calm than the QHs we would ride with. hopefully we get there again. Really looking forward to your journey with him! sometimes a clean slate is what we need.


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## DanteDressageNerd

I understand. I felt a lot better leaving the barn I was at. Loved the people there but the BO was crazy, sometimes you grow and just have to get away from toxic people who hold you back and get in your way. It annoys me to no end how many trainer won't and cant work with a thoroughbred or a horse that requires a partner, rather than a bully. Some literally just cant ride a thoroughbred and make them seem crazy, even though the horse isn't crazy at all but they can't stand a rider who puts pressure on, on, on and increases it without respect for the horse or explaining the situation. You can get away with a lot more on a warmbloods than you can with a thoroughbred. 

I also find it sad how many dressage trainers aren't horsemen and dont really have a clue what to do with a horse on the ground or how to desensitize them, gain their trust or partnership. I'm a big fan of NH and don't get why so many "conventional" disciplines shun it. It teaches a lot about energy and how you can raise or lower energy to get a response, it's about understanding the horse and being able to communicate it. Then you have people who have worked with one horse or a handful and think they know everything there is to know about horses and every situation. My pet peeve, I used to get so many side people commenting about Dante that didn't have a clue about him or the situation or how much we had worked through. People. Always easier to access and assume than to analyze and understand.

I'm glad Helen is able to help you so much with your new guy and is such a close friend of yours. Im glad you have each other to continue the journey on and are in a better situation with a horse you can achieve with. No doubt you learned a lot from Tess and Forrest but hopefully you'll have this guy the next 30 years


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## knightrider

Wow, yes, @Tihannah, I remember how frustrated you and all of us were on Horse Forum when you would describe your lessons, and people would write "fire your trainer!". I am so happy that you have someone who works well for you and that North is doing so well!


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## Tihannah

knightrider said:


> Wow, yes, @Tihannah, I remember how frustrated you and all of us were on Horse Forum when you would describe your lessons, and people would write "fire your trainer!". I am so happy that you have someone who works well for you and that North is doing so well!


Hahaha, yes. It was very hard for me to see it back then because, well, I didn't know anything! Lol. And when you're new to this, you want to believe that the people that have been doing it for years and years know what they're doing and are teaching you correctly. That it's something you're doing wrong instead.

In my opinion, a really GOOD trainer understands that all horses are different, and not everyone can afford (or even want) a big fancy warmblood. But they should be able to not only teach you, but help develop your horse as well. They should be able to assess your horse's strengths and weaknesses and help you build on or improve those. This is just not the case with my old trainer, but it took me a long time to see that. Her students never progress above training level, and if they do, it's because they stopped lessoning with her. She had one girl who was a naturally gifted rider and had been lessoning with her since she was 4yrs old, is 14 now with an educated horse, and STILL stuck at training level. She moved barns and started lessoning with Helen and within 6 months is now doing 2nd level. I'm too old to waste 10 years at training level. Lol

On a side note, I rode North last night for the first time outside the roundpen. There were some girls riding their pony in there, so I decided to risk it and see how he would do. A barn friend rode her horse out with us, and just sat nearby on him bareback. We thought it would make him more comfortable to have another horse nearby being ridden.

He was a saint. We did have one spook where he jumped sideways, but he was easy to recover and instantly acted like nothing happened. Lol. When the girls finished up, I took him in the roundpen. We tried the square exercise from the day before. He remembered instantly. We went through the square, circled around, and then without me even queuing him, he turned and went through the square again. Lol. I just love his brain and how quickly he absorbs everything. We practiced our walk halts, moving the shoulders, then haunches, and did just a little trot work and he gets better everyday. I feel like the sky's the limit with this one and am thrilled about the future for both of us.


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## egrogan

Tihannah said:


> In my opinion, a really GOOD trainer understands that all horses are different, and not everyone can afford (or even want) a big fancy warmblood. But they should be able to not only teach you, but help develop your horse as well. They should be able to assess your horse's strengths and weaknesses and help you build on or improve those.


This is so spot on. I'm really missing my old BO/instructor as she fit this definition to a T. She'd ridden in the Pan Am games, developed fancy 5-and 6-figure imported warmbloods...yet still took lessons with me and my little Morgan just as seriously, because her lessons were always about what that particular horse and rider needed in that particular moment. She didn't need to take my piddly $40/lesson to help me overcome a mental block around cantering my new horse when she could have been putting training rides on "the big horses." But she did. She's truly one of the best teachers of adults in any field or discipline that I've ever met. If/when I ever get a trailer, I can't wait to be able to haul back down to ride with her again.


Glad you and North are already having new adventures!


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## carshon

I agree about trainers and understanding what that particular horse and rider need. Just like @egrogan the trainer my husband rides with has had many many AQHA top 10's as well as AQHA Congress Champions the barns FB page is full of pics of certificates that horses have earned under her training. But she takes lessons with my husband and his TWH just as seriously as her high point earners. To say she is worth her weight in gold would be an understatement. We try to show her our appreciation and she just says "that is what I am here for" she even had someone comment to her once that she would take anything in for a lesson - even an old guy on a gaited horse - and she said well yes I will if they want to learn!

So glad North is working out - he sounds lovely - and you deserve those moments of sheer bliss that only a horse back rider can know.


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## PoptartShop

Isn't that disgusting? Your old trainer sounds like someone I know. :icon_rolleyes: LOL, like automatically disregards anything once you mention OTTB. It's sad.

She sounds super bitter. So happy you don't have to see her anymore. You definitely aren't surrounded by that negativity now, & I know that feels amazing.  My old BO was toxic, I had to get outta there. Best decision ever made.

Helen reminds me a lot of my friend Christina, because she has taught me about all this groundwork stuff too! They want what is best for the horse.

I am so happy you didn't listen to those idiots (well, OTTB HATERS lol) & you have North. 

I feel like both of our OTTBs are totally beating the stereotype. It is possible...I feel like groundwork is so important & people tend to skip it.

I know a lady who HATES OTTB's & only rides WB's. LOL. Her horses are push-button, too. OTTB's have taught me a lot. They just get such a bad rep. It's stupid.

That's great you rode him outside the roundpen, & he did so well!!  I love that, it's the best when they feel unsure/or if they spook, then...that's it! Carry on! LOL. :lol: I am soooooooo excited for you guys. <3 Love this!!


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## lostastirrup

Totally going to follow this journey!!

Congratulations, so glad he's such an easy baby


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## KigerQueen

i honestly met more crazy paints and quarter horses than OTTBs out here. even my friends horse wishinonastar was a saint and he raced untill he was 15 years old! breeding, training and energy of the people make the horse.

agreed about the trainers. my trainer works with anyone and each lesson is just as important. she is working with a 10 year old girl on a older stocky grade QH with dressage. she has been working with this little girl for a year. takeing her from never riding to winning her first training level test out of 7 riders and with a 76%. i mean for a little girl on a beefy QH with only less than a year of english riding (he had a good 4 months of anemia issues so he was not readable) i feel that's impressive. she is willing to work with odie and his quarks and me and my fear issues. she wont sugar coat it but she is not mean either. last lesson i got scared and freaked out trying to get him to lope. she told me i was a better rider than that. that stuck with me. every time now when i start feeling scared on a horse i remember that and i focus on what im doing NOW. Not what ifs.


I am SOOOOO happy North is doing amazing with you! Tbs are amazing horses. some are just not racers. Look at Cozmic One (zenyatta's first colt). he sucked on the track. he is training for being a jumper and he is a nice one at that.

dont let anyone get you down with this guy. hate to be that person but sometimes older horses are just so damaged they cant be fixed for certain things. Forest while he had the ability just was not going to be YOUR dressage horse. he might make a nice lesson horse or a plod along trail pony, but he was just to damaged to be what YOU needed. North seams to be just what YOU needed. Im excited for each update and i just love the new guy. enjoy working with a clean slate. sometimes they are the best to work with.


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## Hidalgo13

Hearing about your trainer gives me hope that I can find one like her some day.  Maybe there's a clone of her out there?? 

Except for the first trainer I had when I was 13, all the other ones were not so great teachers/horsewomen, and were definitely the wrong fit for me. I would read the forum and learn a lot, and agree with many things that were brought up here, only to find that in my lessons/at the barn, things were not I what I would want or expect them to be. Lessons were pretty much okay let's trot, okay walk. Okay let's canter. I would struggle with my horse, and I was simply told to be firm and not let him get away with anything. To ride on... Despite feeling that there were perhaps issues to be fixed. The tack for one was probably bothering the cr** out of the poor guy (saddle really didn't fit either of us), and I knew I was doing something wrong, but was never told what or how to fix it. Anyhow, rant over. I will be praying for a Helen to come my way. :lol:


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## Tihannah

Hidalgo13 said:


> Hearing about your trainer gives me hope that I can find one like her some day.  Maybe there's a clone of her out there??
> 
> Except for the first trainer I had when I was 13, all the other ones were not so great teachers/horsewomen, and were definitely the wrong fit for me. I would read the forum and learn a lot, and agree with many things that were brought up here, only to find that in my lessons/at the barn, things were not I what I would want or expect them to be. Lessons were pretty much okay let's trot, okay walk. Okay let's canter. I would struggle with my horse, and I was simply told to be firm and not let him get away with anything. To ride on... Despite feeling that there were perhaps issues to be fixed. The tack for one was probably bothering the cr** out of the poor guy (saddle really didn't fit either of us), and I knew I was doing something wrong, but was never told what or how to fix it. Anyhow, rant over. I will be praying for a Helen to come my way. :lol:


I'm sorry, and it's true. Learning to be a good rider is hard enough in itself. Especially when you're as physically uncoordinated as me! Lol. There are many days when I look at video of my riding and think, "Why do I suck SO bad?!" Lol. Position terrible, horse not on the bit, just all over the place. Then I watch these 10yr olds and I'm like, "How the hell do they do it so much better??" But we NEED those good trainers that encourage us and get just as much out of our improvement as we do.

It's been discussed in other threads I'm sure, but I think it's a great disservice to the horse industry that pretty much ANYONE can deem themselves a "trainer" and start teaching people. I think there is a lot of education and experience behind good teachers. There's an eye that has to be developed and certain level of knowledge in the mechanics of a horse. In my lessons, more or less, the object was to make a good 20m circle. I'd fall in, fall out, ride squares and octagons. I was never told HOW to do it. Just do it, and you're doing it wrong! 

You will find a good trainer, and when you do, you will know instantly. There will be lots of lightbulb moments and you will see and feel the difference in both your riding and your horse.


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## Tihannah

I did get some video this weekend, but I wasn't happy with any of it. Lol. Not enough to share. It's a lot easier when I have Helen standing there telling me what I'm doing wrong! I did send her videos while she was gone and she gave me good critiques. Saturday he was just too behind the leg, so Sunday I really focused on keeping him forward and straight. We stayed in the round pen on Sunday so it was nothing great to show, but we had some definite improvement. 

The Happy Mouth bit is not working for him because he won't stop chewing on it. Sunday, every time we started trotting, he'd start hacking and coughing so we couldn't maintain a good rhythm. When I took his bridle off, I noticed that he'd chewed the bit and created a little groove that stuck up in the top of it. I think that it was hitting the roof of his mouth and making him cough. So today I will try to find something else in my stash of bits. I think I have a HS eggbutt he might like and can't ruin. Lol.

Other than that, he's just been a great kid. Eager to please and learning quickly. He stands quietly for mounting and dismounting, which is something we didn't have to teach, so that's amazing. I taught him how to lunge on Sunday and he did well with that. Oh! And I almost forgot! We have a photographer coming out Friday evening to do a photoshoot with us! An old friend of mine put us in touch through FB and said she had a friend that was looking for a horse to shoot and she recommended me from all the pics I post. She just wants to use the pics for promotional purposes and will give us copies for free, so yea, pretty excited about that.


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## Tazzie

Ohhh, pictures!! They are going to be so gorgeous! Now I can't wait to see them!

I'm so glad he's doing so well for you!


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## Tihannah

Tonight's ride was probably our best yet. I was really frustrated with myself after watching my videos from the weekend, so I went back and watched the videos of Helen riding him and explaining everything she was doing. The biggest thing I noted is that no matter what, she stayed soft in her hands. If she used contact at all, it was a quick correction, then soft, but always seat and legs. 

Then today I found a youtube video from Tash (DressageMasteryTV). I like her older videos cause they're geared more towards lower level riders and learning the basics. She reiterated that when she was working with a young horse, she didn't care what the head was doing. All of the focus was put towards moving them off your leg and responding to your seat.

So tonight, I let go of my fear of letting go of the reins, and focused on my seat and legs. I gave quick corrections when needed, and focused on moving him off my legs. We weren't even in the round pen, so that was hard for me - letting go. With each correct response I got, I became more confident. I focused on my position and giving correct cues and staying soft in my hands and it just kept getting better and better. We'd go from one end of the riding area to the other doing walk-halts, laterals, bending, and counter-bending and the more leg and less hands I used, the rounder and softer he got. We went over poles and did a couple short trot sessions. I tried to keep him at the walk as much as possible, but every time we went over the poles and I praised, he got a little excited and wanted to go. Lol. 

Towards the end of the ride, I felt SO good and in total control. I was using my seat and core and sitting up straight and even felt balanced in my posting trot. And I could tell I was balanced because he was soft and round and responding to my seat, and for the first time in a really long time, I felt like I was actually becoming a real dressage rider and the mechanics made sense. North has opened the doors for me and the realization that this is just the beginning for us gives me butterflies.


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## Tihannah

** I should add that my issue with North has not been about his head, but trying to control his movement more with my reins than my seat and legs. When he'd start falling in or veering off course or speeding up, I'd over correct with my reins and it usually had the opposite effect of what I was trying to get. 

And I know part of the letting go is because he's young and I don't yet know what to expect from him like I did Forrest. But I'm learning how to trust myself and the process and I look forwad to developing us both!


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## Golden Horse

Lol, @Tihannah, I feel for you in that ‘over correcting’ mode, so easy to get into, I have to ride round chanting “less is more, less is more” in my head....

Glad to hear good reports, just keep it slow, he is young, you are a new team, you don’t need to be trying new things every time, go slow, get each step solid, you are going to have such fun with him.


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## Tihannah

Golden Horse said:


> Glad to hear good reports, just keep it slow, he is young, you are a new team, you don’t need to be trying new things every time, go slow, get each step solid, you are going to have such fun with him.


Besides lunging, nothing new has been introduced from the first ride. We've just been working on forward and moving off the leg. 90% of the ride is at the walk and most work has been done in the round pen. We won't move on to real trot work until we are solid at the walk. The change in exercises is so not to drill any one thing and to keep his attention and focusing on me. I keep the rides short and always end on a good note with praise. I think he is doing well.


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## PoptartShop

You are doing SO well with him.  

I don't think you are moving fast at ALL with him...you are allowed to try new things, & it doesn't sound like you are, you're just trying to use your seat more, less rein, more seat/leg...which is FANTASTIC.  That's how it should be. It sounds like when you use more of your seat, he responds better, which is what you want anyway. That is AWESOME.

It's good you took videos & then you saw Helen's videos with him, it definitely can show you what you are doing differently etc. It sounds like you already know what to work on, and that is great.
Sounds like you ended on a good note, yay!!

You guys are doing great! <3


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## Tihannah

We did our photoshoot yesterday and the photographer already sent us a few sneak peek pics. LOVE them! Especially since it was about 300% humidity outside and I was dripping in sweat and they still somehow came out great! Lol. North acted like he'd done it a million times. Such a saint! I love him so much and can't wait to see the rest!


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## PoptartShop

You better frame those. & those are only the SNEAK peeks?!!!! :O Wow!! SO beautiful. I love them!  

You guys look so happy and comfortable with each other. So amazing.


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## egrogan

Gorgeous-both of you!


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## lostastirrup

Gorgeous pictures!!!! You guys are a beautiful match. Those will be awesome in a shadowbox with some first show ribbons!


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## carshon

The last one is awesome! you can just see your love for him. Great photos!!!


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## Tihannah

lostastirrup said:


> Gorgeous pictures!!!! You guys are a beautiful match. Those will be awesome in a shadowbox with some first show ribbons!


Oh, what a great idea!!


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## jaydee

That is one big bodied TB - he's better built than a lot of WB's you see. Lovely photos


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## Tihannah

Had a lovely weekend with North and sad it passed so quickly. Saturday a bunch of us girls met up at the barn after Helen finished teaching and decided to take the horses on a hack. Four horses, all TB's. North was the only gelding. There is a small trail that runs around the perimeter of the barn. North was a little nervous, but he handled it well, and it helped that the other horses were there. It was fun and such a good experience for him. I was proud of how well he handled it. One of the girls horses is a rather hot, 11yr old chestnut mare and she was definitely the worst of the bunch. Her owner kept saying she was mad that my 3yr old handled it better. Lol. The trail comes out to the entrance to the riding area, so we took the horses in there to just mess around a bit, then hit the trail back to the barn. It was a really lovely, laid back ride, and I think North really enjoyed it.

Today we were on our own. Last week, Wednesday maybe, Helen rode him and introduced contact. First at the walk, then at the trot. As soon as she felt like he understood and got maybe 5-6 consistent strides from him, she ended the ride and lavished him with praise. The ride lasted maybe 15 minutes. Thursday we had our photoshoot, and Friday I didn't go out. So here's the thing about North. Once he gets it, and you praise him, it's locked in. He's like a sponge and just absorbs things and doesn't forget. Helen's only rode him twice now. But each time she's ridden him, he's retained everything, so that when I ride him, we only have to work on improving it. It's amazing the brain on this horse. 

I honestly thought it would be 30-60 days with Helen before I could really ride him or feel comfortable riding him. I worried that he may be too much horse for me for awhile, but it just hasn't been so. I have developed such a bond with him that it feels like he trusts me and I trust him. I marvel at how easy he is to handle and how quietly he stands for grooming, tacking, mounting, and dismounting. He feels like an old soul and every day that I spend with him, I just want to pinch myself and squeal in delight. He could not be more perfect for me.

Today we worked on the contact/connection and balance again. He blew me away. I struggled with Tess. I REALLY struggled with Forrest. But with North? There's no struggle. It's just a matter of teaching him and watching him bloom. And if I'm being honest here, I'm not that a great a rider. Lol. Only been doing this 3 years now, so I feel incredibly lucky to have found such an amazing young horse that tolerates my novice abilities.

Below are 2 short clips from our ride today. One is a little video edit I threw together and the other is just a short unedited clip. My guy was filming, so there was no one there to tell me my inside rein was too long, sit back, legs long, etc. There's much to improve and build on, but I was really proud of us today. Really proud.


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## DanteDressageNerd

I think you are WAY WAY too hard on yourself, you're doing a great job with him! And I am SO SO happy you finally have a horse you really feel right with, like you can really grow together. I absolutely believe both Tess and Forrest taught you a lot and gave you a feel and something within your energy and mind that will allow you to work with horses in a way someone who has only had well behaved, purpose bred, perfect horses won't learn. It's a quality that can't necessarily be seen in someone's riding but in the variety and types of horses they can ride effectively. For instance I think even though youre "less skilled" than a lot of Danish riders you see on these fabulous horses I think you would have far more success on something like Wonder than they would. I think he'd fight them and it'd get ugly like rearing, bolting, kicking out, tension vs you'd get on and he might not be perfect but I bet he'd never ever even think about rearing or being naughty because you learned a quality those riders didn't from riding fairly agreeable warmbloods who you can fight through with but not something with a mind.

You are doing GREAT with him! You two look like you were made for each other, you look so much happier with him than either of the other two. You guys just click, Im so so happy for you


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## Tihannah

DanteDressageNerd said:


> I think you are WAY WAY too hard on yourself, you're doing a great job with him! And I am SO SO happy you finally have a horse you really feel right with, like you can really grow together. I absolutely believe both Tess and Forrest taught you a lot and gave you a feel and something within your energy and mind that will allow you to work with horses in a way someone who has only had well behaved, purpose bred, perfect horses won't learn. It's a quality that can't necessarily be seen in someone's riding but in the variety and types of horses they can ride effectively. For instance I think even though youre "less skilled" than a lot of Danish riders you see on these fabulous horses I think you would have far more success on something like Wonder than they would. I think he'd fight them and it'd get ugly like rearing, bolting, kicking out, tension vs you'd get on and he might not be perfect but I bet he'd never ever even think about rearing or being naughty because you learned a quality those riders didn't from riding fairly agreeable warmbloods who you can fight through with but not something with a mind.
> 
> You are doing GREAT with him! You two look like you were made for each other, you look so much happier with him than either of the other two. You guys just click, Im so so happy for you


Thanks Cassie, and you're right, they both did teach me a lot. Forrest especially, taught me to be more steady with my hands and not hang on the mouth, how to use my seat and legs more, and the benefits of groundwork. I definitely appreciate what I've learned from both and I think it's helped me a lot with North.


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## egrogan

What a pleasure to watch! You DO look great together, and he looks very happy to do what you're asking him. What a sweet expression he has on his face. So happy for you that things are going so well.


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## PoptartShop

Stop being so darn hard on yourself, girl! You are doing FANTASTIC. You look lovely on him, it is clear that he trusts you. I do not see any struggle, either. The bond you guys have already shows & I am so glad you know what you need to work on & you are helping him as well, as he is learning! 

He is so handsome, & he looks really good!! That is great you were able to take him out with those mares. I mean he's a baby & look how well he is doing! That is amazing.  It is HUGE, HUGE that you are able to do that. The fact that it was a relaxing ride is amazing.

Keep it up, I also agree you look much happier with North. <3 You have the patience & determination to work with him & teach him. He needs you, you are his person!


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## Tihannah

PoptartShop said:


> Stop being so darn hard on yourself, girl! You are doing FANTASTIC. You look lovely on him, it is clear that he trusts you. I do not see any struggle, either. The bond you guys have already shows & I am so glad you know what you need to work on & you are helping him as well, as he is learning!
> 
> He is so handsome, & he looks really good!! That is great you were able to take him out with those mares. I mean he's a baby & look how well he is doing! That is amazing.  It is HUGE, HUGE that you are able to do that. The fact that it was a relaxing ride is amazing.
> 
> Keep it up, I also agree you look much happier with North. <3 You have the patience & determination to work with him & teach him. He needs you, you are his person!


Wish I could LOVE this!  Thank you for always being so supportive. I have enjoyed and will continue to enjoy sharing our journeys with these incredible horses! And you're right, I think that's the biggest difference when I watch my rides with North as opposed to Forrest and Tess. He is not being forced or stressed - his tail is not even swishing! We're talking it through and he's learning and eager to please and I love that about him and our relationship. I ask and whatever he is comfortable giving me, I praise and encourage, and the next time, he gives me more. He is so easy to teach that I know as long as I work hard to improve myself, he will only get better. I can't wait to see us in another year or two!


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## Tihannah

Not much to report back this week. North is still just an incredible baby.  We focused mostly on groundwork this week. Thus far, he's just been the complete opposite of every TB stereotype out there. I've heard many times that horses coming off the track do better going to the left because that is the direction they are trained to run. Not this guy. Right lead is his stronger side. He's stronger and softer and easier to bend going right, so our groundwork has been getting him more supple and stronger on his left side. We did some work in the roundpen and on the lunge just teaching him how to move off of that inside shoulder going left.

Last night I got on him for a short session just hacking around the barn. We did about 15 min at the walk doing bending exercises and changing directions and then maybe 10 min at the trot. His left lead trot was SO much better and as soon as he gave me 6-7 strides with a consistent soft bend to the left, I patted and praised him and hopped off.

**I guess I should also add a note because I'm sure a few have scowled at my use of spurs in the above videos. Also unlike many OTTB's, North is not sensitive AT ALL. He was rather dull and behind the leg actually and didn't respond well to pressure either on the ground or in the saddle. I'd got him yielding to pressure on the ground, but once in the saddle, it was still requiring strong leg aids just to get him walking straight or moving off the leg and I didn't like the idea of teaching him with strong kicks just to get him to move over. Helen suggested I use spurs instead to help him understand what we were asking. We tried the baby nub spurs first and he had no reaction to them whatsoever. I have smooth rowel spurs and from the first time I rode in them it made a big difference. So yes, we've done a few rides with the spurs, and now I can get on him without the spurs and get the same results because he understands what I am asking. He's not a difficult horse to teach, but if I can use a less aggressive method to help him understand and not stress him in the process, then I will. Also not sure why I felt the need to explain that except that I know that judgments fly rampant in the horse world. Not here to persuade or change anyone's mind, just telling our story.


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## DanteDressageNerd

I don't mind your use of spurs if it helps North understand the concept better and with lighter cues. I usually think of the mental projection or energy first, I find they respond quite well to that because they respond to the intent first then the cue. It sounds like the dullness is from lack of fitness and learning the "forward" aids. That is normal with a green youngster, he'll become more forward in time but glad he isn't a hot race car type. Will make him much more relaxed and supple. You're doing a great job with him!

As for judgments, I agree. I think a lot of people are very judgmental but the way I see it is those who do will and those who cant criticize. The only way imo to avoid criticism is to hide under a rock and do nothing. Insecure people always have to belittle, demean and bad mouth others who try. Some people simply can't help themselves, their only way of feeling important or in power or special is to belittle someone else and in my mind that is not a healthy, happy person and not a mind Id want to live in. I think I'm turning Danish, it's better to help and lift people up than to tear them down but most people aren't secure enough to be mindful or genuinely helpful. But I'm also a former Marine so let them F themselves is often my response to jerks. Or I'll just out perform you, learn more and work harder. Have a little bit of got to prove em wrong mentality :lol: spent my whole life being told why I can't or why I suck or whatever. Always turn those voices off, the only people I've known who are hyper critical are the ones who are jealous or cant do it themselves and feel insecure or threatened seeing someone else try and succeed. Keep it UP!!

This is YOUR journey and up to you to do what is best for both you and North, no one else is sitting in that saddle, paying his bills or putting the work in, so they have no place in your heart or mind. Enjoy it!!


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## Tihannah

DanteDressageNerd said:


> I don't mind your use of spurs if it helps North understand the concept better and with lighter cues. I usually think of the mental projection or energy first, I find they respond quite well to that because they respond to the intent first then the cue. It sounds like the dullness is from lack of fitness and learning the "forward" aids. That is normal with a green youngster, he'll become more forward in time but glad he isn't a hot race car type. Will make him much more relaxed and supple. You're doing a great job with him!
> 
> As for judgments, I agree. I think a lot of people are very judgmental but the way I see it is those who do will and those who cant criticize. The only way imo to avoid criticism is to hide under a rock and do nothing. Insecure people always have to belittle, demean and bad mouth others who try. Some people simply can't help themselves, their only way of feeling important or in power or special is to belittle someone else and in my mind that is not a healthy, happy person and not a mind Id want to live in. I think I'm turning Danish, it's better to help and lift people up than to tear them down but most people aren't secure enough to be mindful or genuinely helpful. But I'm also a former Marine so let them F themselves is often my response to jerks. Or I'll just out perform you, learn more and work harder. Have a little bit of got to prove em wrong mentality :lol: spent my whole life being told why I can't or why I suck or whatever. Always turn those voices off, the only people I've known who are hyper critical are the ones who are jealous or cant do it themselves and feel insecure or threatened seeing someone else try and succeed. Keep it UP!!
> 
> This is YOUR journey and up to you to do what is best for both you and North, no one else is sitting in that saddle, paying his bills or putting the work in, so they have no place in your heart or mind. Enjoy it!!


Thank you Cassie. I know I will make mistakes with him - already have! Lol. But the intent is always to develop us both in a positive way. I don't ever want him to become as damaged as many horses I've seen (like Forrest). I enjoy him immensely, and it's so refreshing to work with a horse that enjoys learning and has no big obstacles to overcome.

Which reminds me... I've been keeping in touch with the trainers who have Forrest. I don't think they really believed me when I told them we tried everything with him. As soon as they got him they brought the chiro in, dentist to have his teeth done (AGAIN), and did massage on him. I really think that they believed in 30 days they would have him on the road to becoming a dressage horse, even though I told them he would be better off as a therapy horse. A mutual friend said they are starting to realize just how dull and not too bright he is.

The same friend also informed me that they recently had him tested for EPM and are waiting on the results. I don't know if I ever mentioned it, but in the last few months, I kinda came to the realization that Forrest simply wasn't a very bright horse. He didn't seem retain anything you tried to teach him, which was why every day was like starting over and it was easy to find yourself frustrated and wanting to just throw in the towel. It is also part of the reason I am so astounded by how quickly North learns things and retains them. Anyhow, the mutual friend and I were discussing, and though I don't think it's EPM (my vet didn't see any signs), if it is, at his age I doubt they will want to pay for the expensive treatment. If it's not, then they should just resign to letting him be a therapy horse. 

Either way the results come back, it just proves what I already told them. He will never be a competition horse. They thought they would be showing him by the end of the year, but he is steadily proving them wrong, and these are very talented trainers who specialize in "problem" horses. The thing with Forrest is, he may give you a ray of hope one ride, but the very next ride it's like it never happened and he has no idea what you're asking him again and it's a never ending cycle. He is a sweet horse and he's done his time. I just wish he could live out the rest of his days in a job where he isn't trying to be made into something he's not...


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## egrogan

Awww....poor Forrest. If he doesn't work out for them in competition or the therapy program, does he come back to you?


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## Tihannah

egrogan said:


> Awww....poor Forrest. If he doesn't work out for them in competition or the therapy program, does he come back to you?


They have promised to give him a forever home and have already said he would be a perfect therapy horse because of his temperament and his movement. His big moving walk is very beneficial for physical therapy. They just believed, like I did, that his obstacles could be overcome because his natural movement is so geared toward dressage. And I told them that if they could somehow get him through it and make him a nice riding riding horse, then I would be just as happy. But no, he will stay with them and be well cared for. I just don't think he will be what they hoped for.


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## egrogan

Yeah, I can totally imagine someone looking at him and not really hearing what you're telling them. You're right though, a nice big active walk is highly beneficial for therapeutic riding. When I was an instructor, I had so many conversations with people who wanted to donate their pasture sound, weak backed senior citizens because the perception is that therapeutic riding is giving pony rides. Most people don't understand how physically demanding it is for horses, and how important it is that they get good cross training rides with capable riders to keep them fit and happy. With his great personality on the ground, I'm sure they'll like having him in the program!


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## DanteDressageNerd

Tina I can almost guarantee he wont become as damaged as Forrest. We are allowed to make mistakes, we all make them every ride and every day but we can learn from them and improve. It's a "special" talent some trainers have that ruin perfectly sound minded horses and it is tragic. 

Unfortunately there is a reason warmbloods were called "dumbloods" for a long time. Oddly enough all the really dumb ones I've known have been big bay geldings. One 18h and 1700lbs he would kick the stall but we eventually figured out it was because he didn't realize he had walked into the stall. Poor guy, he was a sweet horse but doesn't retain well. I can't imagine what riding him would be like if he had had bad training to start with. I think less intelligent horses can be great amateur horses if taught their job right because they usually don't pull as many tricks out of the hat as a smart one who asks questions. But once they learn a lot of bad tricks and are shut down there isn't much to be done. I think Frankie's mom was that way too. Hard to say, she was fried and unfixable but I also don't think she was a smart horse. 8yrs of psychological damage had callouses the size of my palm on her sides from spurs. Worked in a double incorrectly starting as a 4yr old. I've honestly seen more emotional/psychological abuse cases in dressage than any other discipline and my trainer who worked in a variety of disciplines said the same thing. Saddleseat horses are almost never fried like some dressage horses can be :-(

But glad North is nothing like that and isnt the stereotype. Though tbh most of the thoroughbreds I've worked with were pretty level headed. Wonder is the only one I'd really call HOT HOT. I'd ridden ones that were emotionally sensitive or sensitive in general but they werent that tense, anxious LETS GO, GOTTA GO, HAVE ants in my pants sort of hot. The only ones I saw behave like that were because they had tense, high energy riders who were juicing them up and I'd ride them and they wouldn't be hot or spicy at all. Just reactive to their rider's energy and not feeling secure in their rider or confident in what they're asked to do. A lot of thoroughbreds are over achievers and REALLY want to please and get upset when they don't feel like they understand what is being asked of them or their efforts are being punished or if they dont' feel like they can trust or turn to their rider. Not everyone or every trainer can work with a thoroughbred and ride them well. They're a very different brain from a warmblood or a PRE. I think that is why there is a stereotype. They wont tolerate the same emotional or psychological abuse that other breeds will tolerate because of their emotional sensitivity and awareness. A lot of riders are unaware of their own energy and are not very tactful. For example in Germany it's more "well just make them do it" or "push harder" "more force" and that just doesn't work with a thoroughbred. And when people get out of their scope of knowledge or the horse doesn't fit in their "box" they call it a bad horse or a problem and throw it out, rather than evaluating themselves and learning how to adjust to work with that horse. Or learning another way that suits the horse better.


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## Tihannah

DanteDressageNerd said:


> But glad North is nothing like that and isnt the stereotype. Though tbh most of the thoroughbreds I've worked with were pretty level headed. Wonder is the only one I'd really call HOT HOT. I'd ridden ones that were emotionally sensitive or sensitive in general but they werent that tense, anxious LETS GO, GOTTA GO, HAVE ants in my pants sort of hot. The only ones I saw behave like that were because they had tense, high energy riders who were juicing them up and I'd ride them and they wouldn't be hot or spicy at all. Just reactive to their rider's energy and not feeling secure in their rider or confident in what they're asked to do. A lot of thoroughbreds are over achievers and REALLY want to please and get upset when they don't feel like they understand what is being asked of them or their efforts are being punished or if they dont' feel like they can trust or turn to their rider. Not everyone or every trainer can work with a thoroughbred and ride them well. They're a very different brain from a warmblood or a PRE. I think that is why there is a stereotype. They wont tolerate the same emotional or psychological abuse that other breeds will tolerate because of their emotional sensitivity and awareness. A lot of riders are unaware of their own energy and are not very tactful. For example in Germany it's more "well just make them do it" or "push harder" "more force" and that just doesn't work with a thoroughbred. And when people get out of their scope of knowledge or the horse doesn't fit in their "box" they call it a bad horse or a problem and throw it out, rather than evaluating themselves and learning how to adjust to work with that horse. Or learning another way that suits the horse better.


I agree and this is something I've seen first hand with North and a TB at the old barn. I rode North before Helen did. It was only in the roundpen on a loose rein and asking him to walk around, but he was calm as cucumber and could not have cared less. I had been the only one working with him (groundwork and such) up until that point. The first day that Helen got on him, he was a different horse. He tried to take her back to the barn and was running sideways and I thought, "Omg! What's happening??" She stayed calm and rode him through it, but I honestly think he panicked cause he didn't know her and there was this strange person on his back asking him to do weird things, you know?

The other was another TB gelding. 2 GP riders, 2 separate occasions. One was John and the other was a lady we brought in to clinic from Florida. The owner was pregnant and couldn't ride at the time, but still wanted to maintain his training.

When John rode him, he looked amazing. Relaxed, coming over the back, and stretching down into the bit. The owner couldn't believe it. So when the 2nd GP trainer came a few months later, she asked her to ride as well. It was an UGLY ride. The poor horse looked so tense and confused and was fighting her almost the entire time. As she was riding she said, "TB's usually don't like my strong seat." and she almost scowled the entire time she was riding him. The owner was NOT happy. I couldn't believe the difference between the two rides.

So yes, while I don't have a lot of experience with different breeds, I do think this is a special breed that can be highly impacted mentally from the type of riders they have to endure.


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## Golden Horse

He is a handsome man to be sure, so glad you have found the (fingers crossed) right one, you look a good match, and he sounds great..

It kind of annoys me when people lump all OTTB’s together, they are as varied as any other horse, I’ve ridden several, known many, many, and they were everything from baby sitter types, to OMG he’s going to kill me. Many many great riding horses started on the track, just need a chance to shine in their new job, and sounds like North will be one of those.


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## lostastirrup

This is super weird, my experience with TBs has been different, they've been hot, sorta, but honestly horses that I could push and we're happier being pushed than some of the ones I've had to ride more tactfully- Arabs, a few QHs and an Irish sport horse come to mind. They did do this lovely thing where once they had an idea or concept, they totally HAD IT. I found that they were relatively easy if you were willing to sit them through and wait for the fireworks to settle. But to be fair also I mostly did remedial stuff- canter on both leads, go to the bit, try stopping please; For horses who had sat too long or unseated riders too often. The finnicky ones tended to be of different breeding, but nothing accross the board that I could label as "yep those were toughies". So it's possible that I just worked through a simple batch of TBs. Right now I have an Arab mare in training who is dumber than a box of rocks, and I also have my main dude (arabx), who is way way too clever by half. So I have a hard time stereotyping the breeds. Though I think we pick up more and more knowledge as we go and can notice some trends, as long as we also accept the outliers..... Hmmmmmm well except for the term "dumbloods" honestly I've never met a warmblood that knew where it's feet were. I don't know why, but every one I've met has not been spacially aware at all... Super strange. Also could have just been my luck and running into low quality WB's. 


Also, you might enjoy this article on TBs I thought it was very good. 


http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/i-had-forgotten-about-the-thoroughbred



Your dude sounds like he's coming along. I'm glad he's started easy.


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## Tihannah

lostastirrup said:


> This is super weird, my experience with TBs has been different, they've been hot, sorta, but honestly horses that I could push and we're happier being pushed than some of the ones I've had to ride more tactfully- Arabs, a few QHs and an Irish sport horse come to mind. They did do this lovely thing where once they had an idea or concept, they totally HAD IT. I found that they were relatively easy if you were willing to sit them through and wait for the fireworks to settle. But to be fair also I mostly did remedial stuff- canter on both leads, go to the bit, try stopping please; For horses who had sat too long or unseated riders too often. The finnicky ones tended to be of different breeding, but nothing accross the board that I could label as "yep those were toughies". So it's possible that I just worked through a simple batch of TBs. Right now I have an Arab mare in training who is dumber than a box of rocks, and I also have my main dude (arabx), who is way way too clever by half. So I have a hard time stereotyping the breeds. Though I think we pick up more and more knowledge as we go and can notice some trends, as long as we also accept the outliers..... Hmmmmmm well except for the term "dumbloods" honestly I've never met a warmblood that knew where it's feet were. I don't know why, but every one I've met has not been spacially aware at all... Super strange. Also could have just been my luck and running into low quality WB's.
> 
> 
> Also, you might enjoy this article on TBs I thought it was very good.
> 
> 
> The Chronicle of the Horse
> 
> 
> 
> Your dude sounds like he's coming along. I'm glad he's started easy.


I don't even know what to say about the "stereotypes", but I legit had 4 trainers either tell me NOT to get a TB or that they didn't think it was a good idea. One friend told me I was crazy for getting a 3 yr old OTTB. And the feedback regarding them was always negative at my old barn, but mostly as hard keepers with lots of health and soundness issues. The consensus was so strong that at one point, I wouldn't even consider looking at TB sale ads.

Every time we ride together, Helen remarks that North is just amazing and I really lucked out. She said she spent the first 8 months with her older mare, Winnie, just doing walk-halts because she wouldn't stop jigging and couldn't just walk like a normal horse. Even now at 19, she still won't stand for mounting. You just have to get on as quick as you can, and Helen said she spent months and months doing groundwork and NH training with her. I think as far as ANY breed goes, I lucked out with North.

This past weekend was pretty uneventful. Saturday we did another hack with the girls and a little trot work. Helen hopped on him and did a little bit of canter. I wasn't brave enough to do it myself for the first time. Lol. He's incredibly unbalanced in the canter, so this week we will do more work on the lunge. 

The only other issue has been his shoes. We can't keep them on! He tracks up too much and is still figuring his feet out and manages to pull the same one every week. The farrier has been out 4 times since I've gotten him! Saturday he pulled the same shoe again, so I talked with Helen and texted the farrier. We are just going to pull them. He's only shod on the fronts and has decent feet. We're not doing any serious work and only riding on grass footing so I think he'll be okay. He never looks off, sore or lame when he pulls them either. So I ordered him some Keratex to help get them stronger and I have him on a hoof supplement. I just cant deal with this losing a shoe every week and I'd prefer my horses go barefoot if they can. Tess was shod on all four for years when I got her and the keratex helped easily transition her to barefoot and we never had an issues. I'm hoping it will go just as smooth with North.


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## Tazzie

I agree with your comment that regardless of breed you lucked out with North. He seems just flat our amazing! There are breed stereotypes EVERYWHERE, and it's sad. My former trainer HATED that I had Izzie, a half Arabian. I'm sure she's not even interested in talking to me now that we have Diego (as evidence by the unanswered text from a week and a half ago). I feel Arabs are another breed heavily misunderstood. Most just want to overpower them since normally they are small, but you really just have to convince them what you're doing is fun and they WANT to do it. I'm sorry you were met with such horrible bias against North. He's such a lovely fellow that frankly it doesn't matter what breed he is!

And keratex is AMAZING! We used that for a while on Izzie until her hoof supplement kicked in, and on Diego until his feet grew out a bit. It's amazing stuff! I'm sure it'll go smoothly


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## Tihannah

We got more pics back from our photoshoot! Though I wish more than anything I was 20lbs lighter (haha), I still think they came out fantastic. I love him so much!


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## DanteDressageNerd

I know I already said on facebook and instagram but these photos of you two are so beautiful and stunning! You can really tell you've found your match and I'm so happy for you! I hope you two continue to blossom together, you make a beautiful pair  he has such lovely soft, kind eyes. So glad you found him and are doing so well together! Youre both lucky to have each other!


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## Tihannah

DanteDressageNerd said:


> I know I already said on facebook and instagram but these photos of you two are so beautiful and stunning! You can really tell you've found your match and I'm so happy for you! I hope you two continue to blossom together, you make a beautiful pair  he has such lovely soft, kind eyes. So glad you found him and are doing so well together! Youre both lucky to have each other!


Thank you, Cassie! He really does feel like my heart horse and I am enjoying every minute of this journey with him!


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## Tihannah

I am overwhelmed with emotion right now and simply have to record these moments...

This horse is a dream. Every day is so much better than I ever could have imagined and I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around it. How can it be this easy? This simple? I try to remind myself that this is just the beginning and horses can change as they mature. But his MIND...it's almost too much for a girl that has struggled so much with past horses just trying to nail down the basics. He makes me feel like I'm a decent rider. That I'm capable and that I can only get better.

And I won't kid myself. I know that Tess and Forrest played a big part in my ability to teach him, especially Forrest. These horses that were incredibly difficult to ride taught me patience and understanding. They molded me for him and I am forever grateful for what they taught me.

I didn't ride last Friday. Saturday was just a short hack and then hanging out with the girls and their horses just messing around. Sunday and Monday it rained non-stop, so tonight, I finally got to ride. As I took him out to the riding area, another girl was turning her mare out. She'd been stalled for 3 days due to the weather and having terribly bad feet that can't hold a shoe, so when the owner let her out, she tore across the pasture like a madwoman. North instantly went on high alert, watching and snorting and just looking uneasy since he didn't understand what was going on. So I decided to put him in the roundpen to get his attention back to me. It took 3 laps of trotting before we joined up. That was all it took. He was with me again. He'd glance over to the mare's pasture, but when I moved, he moved with me. I simply marveled at him.

Then I got on. We mostly stayed at the walk, practiced our bending, rhythm, halts, counterbends, and moving off the leg. I was in awe at how well he moved off the leg - in both directions. How soft he was in the hand and how all I needed was a little leg to get him round and bending. When we did a little trot work and he'd speed up when he lost his balance, I brought him back with just my seat and giggled inside. He loves the praise and it fascinates me how much it motivates him to get it right. I feel such an incredible connection and bond to this horse.

There were countless days that I came home after riding Forrest feeling exhausted and defeated. Every inch of me would be sore and aching and I'd spend the rest of the night online searching for new ways to reach him. Scouring forums for ideas and things I'd overlooked. There has not been one day like that with North. All of the traditional training methods just work with him. They make sense and he just gets it and it's so refreshing. I don't know what I did to deserve such a phenomenal young horse, but please, nobody pinch me, cause I don't want to wake up!


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## jaydee

From years of working in riding schools and livery (boarding) yards and dealing I can definitely say that dealing with bad experiences and coming through them OK varies a huge amount from one horse to another and breeding does seem to influence it. 
I've had TB's (and horses that were best part TB) that never raced and up to the point that they came into my care had always been done correctly and they were very straightforward and even if they were on the 'hot side' they weren't spooky or had any bad intent behind their eagerness to go.
If I compare them to something like our clyde x arabian its like chalk and cheese. She can get the anxiety issues that a Clyde shouldn't have but she's a slow learner with a leaning towards being thick as a brick but once she does grasp something its there for life so if someone inadvertently taught her a wrong thing simply by allowing her to do the wrong thing then changing that is nigh on impossible. When my son shot up from 4ft 11ish when he first got her to being over 6ft with long legs and she didn't grow from her 15.1 he started to treat her like a gymkhana pony and encouraged her to trot and then canter along while he ran alongside and then vaulted on. She thinks its the right thing to do and it makes my life really hard now he's gone because I cant do that and she struggles to understand that its no longer the right thing to do
As for the Dumb-bloods - Jazzy would walk into a wall if you don't ask her to go around it
K who's mostly TB with some Irish Draught still has some severe mental hang ups from being in the wrong sort of home for just a very short time even though prior to that everything was done correctly and she responded correctly. On the ground she's sweet and very obliging, a real case of a very talented horse that got totally screwed up by thoughtless riding


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## Tihannah

Not a great day today, but thankfully nothing to do with North.

Finally got my thyroid normalized with 2 consistent bloodwork results, so that was good, but this body is still plagued with chronic fatigue, so my doctor is running additional bloodwork and wants me to see a neurologist for more testing. It doesn't matter if I get 6 or 10 hours of sleep. I'm still tired, and if it wasn't for work and riding, I'd probably never get out of bed.

And then I got a text from the woman I gave Forrest to. The results came back positive for EPM. :-( So now, I'm kinda being made to feel this is my fault for not discovering it, and they can't afford treatment, but the vet said he is not far enough along to warrant being euthanized. She told me the treatment he needs is $1200, but if they don't treat, he will just continue to go downhill.

I called my vet today and he said those tests aren't very accurate and horses can come back positive even if they aren't. He says the only way to really know is with a necropsy, and the treatment she's referring to is the top of line most expensive ones out there. His suggestion, given Forrest's age and history, was to treat him for 30 days on another EPM product that costs $120. He said if after the intial 30 days, we saw no improvement, to consider euthanizing. He said that if he is indeed EPM positive, there is no need to let him continue to get worse and watch him decline.

So now I'm at a crossroads because I'm being made to feel like this is my fault and I knowingly gave them a horse with EPM, which is ridiculous, of course. They live 45 minutes from me, I've been keeping in touch, and had planned to go out and take lessons with them. If I was trying to dump him on someone, I would have sold him to a stranger and ceased all contact. But I love that horse, and I only wanted to see him in a good situation. So now I don't know what to do. Should I try and bring him home for a month and try the treatment? If it works and he continues to get better, I still can't afford to keep and board 2 horses. At the same time, if the decision is going to be to euthanize him, I would rather he be with me when he takes his last breath. I'm just not sure what to do right now...


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## carshon

what a truly crappy way to handle things with Forrest. You were completely honest with them about Forrest and you tried to hard to help him. They got a horse they could have sold for way more than they got him for and now they are complaining? I am sure @phantomhorse13 and others could tell you about EPM treatment as some horses on the East coast always test positive. I wish you could bring him home and help him but only you can decide how to move forward. I am sending you healing and warming thoughts (for you and Forrest)


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## seabiscuit91

That is so awful. The poor guy.

These people seem a little shady though.. at the start they said they could train and flip him in a month, then they complained about it not working, then they get this diagnosis.. That is a really tough situation. 

Thoughts are with you both!


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## Golden Horse

Oh jeez, that sucks royally......no advice, just positive thoughts.


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## DanteDressageNerd

Many horses will test low positive for EPM. Dante tested low positive and I wasn't going to treat but then we started him on estrone (Steroid) and he had pretty obvious symptoms, so I treated him and he's been fine ever since. My bet is they're trying to find an excuse for his behavior and a lot of people would rather blame someone else than accept sometimes things just dont go your way or you cant fix them all. I would NOT take Forrest back or pay for his EPM treatment. It is flat out rude of them to make you feel bad for not knowing and even so MANY horses will test low positive for EPM and never show symptoms. I also agree with your vet, you don't have to use marquis or the top expensive products. Use something cheaper. However I think it is unacceptable of them to make you feel bad about something you didn't know about and for all we know could be a false positive or he's had a low positive rating for YEARS and no one knew. I wouldn't feel guilty.


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## LoriF

Why would you even think that he might have EPM to test him? Why did they test him for this. I would tell them that you had no idea and no reason to test him for this. In watching him in videos, nothing screamed at me to test for epm although it might with an owner who knew him well. With the care that you give your horses, I'm sure you would have thought something. In some areas of the U.S., over 50% of horses test positive and there is nothing wrong with them. The fact is, a blood test for epm is not exactly the best way for diagnosing for epm that has gone farther than the blood stream.

They knew the issues you were having with him and thought that they would be the ones to change it and score big. They are disappointed. Can you take him back and tell them that you will see what treatment he needs if anything? I'm sure he is fine in this matter. And then, sell him as a nice trail horse with the disclosure about the issues he has with contact. Not everybody rides with contact on the bit. Personally, I ride with no contact on the bit most of the time. You can also just wish them the best of luck and try to educate them a little on EPM and what the test results mean and don't mean. More than likely, he has antibodies for EPM in his bloodstream and that is it. The one thing that I would NOT do is help pay for their vets recommended treatment. 

Are they truly making you feel guilty about this or are they just telling you and you feel bad? You feeling guilty may not be their intentions, only you would know exactly how they spoke to you. Maybe they are seeing if you would take him back.

I wish I could take him, he's a nice horse. 

I don't know about where you are at, but people will pay decent money for a nice trail horse here in Florida. My B/O just sold a young horse that belonged to a border. Mom and Dad buy three year old horse for their little girl who loves horses and loves riding but not exactly too confident. Young horse throws out a couple of happy bucks and now little girl is afraid to ride him. This gelding is sweet as can be, just a big goober, and goes well for most people but he's three and she can't handle him. He's huge and she's a little wisp which doesn't help either. Anyway, he was sold to a person that wanted a gentle trail horse and paid good money for him too. I might add, they paid good money for him in spite of him having an abscessed hoof at the time. I'm pretty sure he was sold for 4,500 dollars.


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## phantomhorse13

seabiscuit91 said:


> These people seem a little shady though.. at the start they said they could train and flip him in a month, then they complained about it not working, then they get this diagnosis..





DanteDressageNerd said:


> My bet is they're trying to find an excuse for his behavior and a lot of people would rather blame someone else than accept sometimes things just dont go your way or you cant fix them all. I would NOT take Forrest back or pay for his EPM treatment.


Couldn't agree more.

How can these people claim you _knowingly_ gave them a horse with EPM after how many professionals saw him while he was yours and not one them ever mentioned such a thing?! I call bullsh!t.

I also would not take the horse back nor pay for his treatment. Personally, wonder just what text the vet did to "diagnose" EPM. There are a couple different blood tests, one much better than the other (and therefore more $ of course). But the gold standard is a spinal tap, which is a very serious undertaking and very expensive, so I cannot imagine that was done. Did they mention what reason they/the vet had for testing for EPM to start with? What symptoms do they claim he is showing?


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## PoptartShop

That is horrible news about Forrest, but it is not your fault at all. It is true, many horses can test false positive or low positive. 

They are just making excuses it sounds like to me...you should not feel guilty at all. How would you have even known? No way.

I agree with your vet as well!!! Many tests can come out false positive. There's no need for the most expensive treatment right now. They are just being ridiculous. :icon_rolleyes: They are trying to put it on you, when it is not your problem or fault. The tests aren't always accurate. Your vet is right.

It is ridiculous they are doing this to you and making you feel this way. I would not take him back, as you have enough to deal with financially with North, and boarding Forrest plus paying for his treatments/medications. You don't want to go into a deep hole. Who knows what the vet ACTUALLY did? Is there any proof?

I agree, it sounds like they are doing EVERYTHING in their power to try to get you to take him back. First, saying the training isn't going so well, & now this? Yeah...just seems a bit shady.


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## Tihannah

phantomhorse13 said:


> Couldn't agree more.
> 
> How can these people claim you _knowingly_ gave them a horse with EPM after how many professionals saw him while he was yours and not one them ever mentioned such a thing?! I call bullsh!t.
> 
> I also would not take the horse back nor pay for his treatment. Personally, wonder just what text the vet did to "diagnose" EPM. There are a couple different blood tests, one much better than the other (and therefore more $ of course). But the gold standard is a spinal tap, which is a very serious undertaking and very expensive, so I cannot imagine that was done. Did they mention what reason they/the vet had for testing for EPM to start with? What symptoms do they claim he is showing?


His weakness in the hind end. Which is something I've always dealt with because he's always been allowed to go inverted with his head in the air. But they also told my friend that they pulled his tail and he almost fell over. I call total BS on that one because pulling his tail was a part of our routine stretches before riding and he NEVER almost fell over!

She texted me again this morning saying she was checking to see if I'd had any further thoughts on Forrest and I told her my vet's recommendation. Read, but no response. I'm not sure what she's expecting from me - either to pay for the treatment or take him back? I already informed her when I donated him to her program for FREE, that it was because I could not afford two horses and I just wanted to place him in a good situation.

The other thing that bothers me is that she says that it's clear he's had this a long time, and at the same time, her vet says that he is not ataxic enough to consider euthanizing. Which is it?? And I honestly don't hold much faith in her vet either. That she would tell her the only proper treatment is the $1200 treatment and make it seem like whatever test they did was solid, when I KNOW they did not do a spinal tap. This same vet treated my friends horse when he ripped his leg open. She did a crappy wrap job on him and left him. By the time my friend got her regular vet out to him, he had lost so much blood they almost lost him. She sent me the pics, and it looked like something out of a horror movie. The vet apologized and said she didn't think it was that bad. And THIS is who's information I'm supposed to be relying on??

At the same time, I feel kinda angry about it. They want me to take some responsibility for this. But if they had somehow been able to make him into a dressage horse, would I have then had to right to take him back then as well? They came out and thoroughly assessed him and rode him and I told them EVERYTHING and that I thought being a therapy horse was the best fit for him. But they were SURE he could be retrained to be a show horse again (if ever!).

But if I'm being totally honest here, the more I've worked with North, the more I kinda see what has happened with Forrest. He's simply not a bright horse and incredibly difficult to train. Why else would an imported Dutch Warmblood end up in a western barn in Alabama?? I spent a YEAR trying to teach him to halt! If he had EPM that far back, then he would not have been in the condition he was when I got him. Yes, he's had some bad riders and bad training, but even with the NH trainer, it took at least 30 tries before Forrest would join up with him and then his reaction was always slow and delayed. And even after 4 two hour sessions, it still took several attempts before he'd join up. North joined up with me on the first attempt.

After spending a year with him, I was honest and told them he was not a competition horse. It was the reason I didn't sell him. I feel like they chose to believe otherwise and want me to be somewhat responsible because he is not what they thought. They thought that all the previous trainers, vets, and chiros were wrong and that they could piece him together. I welcomed them to it, but I didn't promise them it would work, and now somewhow its my fault.


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## Hidalgo13

Sigh...I am sorry this is happening, you don't need this crap from them. I agree that it's not fair that they are trying to make you feel guilty. You honestly could not have handled your dealings with these people in a better way than you did. Any issues is on them. But I guess as you said, they are realizing that they were wrong. They had high hopes for this horse and their dreams have been shattered, and they need to blame someone to cope with the disappointment (because God forbid they be the ones in the wrong). 

Hang in there! This will eventually come to pass. Hopefully they have some sense, and listen to you and your vets advice.


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## PoptartShop

They knew he was not fit to be a competition horse. They knew this. They decided to take him in, & they knew why you didn't want to sell him. You did right by him by taking him to a place where he could potentially become a therapy horse. Not a show horse. 

It's ridiculous how people can just switch on you like this. I wouldn't trust that vet, PERIOD! They aren't making any sense, exactly. One says he needs the most expensive treatment ever, then the next says he isn't even considered to get euthanized.

They are just upset because they somehow thought they could 'fix' his issues & he could possibly become a show horse, & they can't (which they should have known anyway...) now they are making excuses & trying to see if you will just take him off their hands. NOPE!
They should listen to YOUR vet's advice, hands down. If they don't, that's on them.

I am so sorry they are doing this to you. It is not fair & you definitely don't deserve this crap. :sad:


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## Tihannah

She finally responded and just said, "Thanks. We'll take care of him." I guess it was not the response she wanted to hear.


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## seabiscuit91

They were clearly very much HOPING they could get a free warmblood horse, and make him a competition horse to make money off him. Now that it's not worked out and what you told them is sinking in, they're obviously upset and trying to weasel money or get something else from you. 

At the end of the day he was a free horse. Everyone in the horse industry should know, there is no such thing as a free horse, meaning without complication or a 'catch' to some degree. 

They definitely wanted to hopefully pull the wool over your eyes, saying he would 'stay a therapy horse' but i'd bet my bottom dollar IF it had worked out, and they got him going, they would of sold him for a massive profit and never have told you.


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## Hidalgo13

Tihannah said:


> She finally responded and just said, "Thanks. We'll take care of him." I guess it was not the response she wanted to hear.


Good. You gave him away for free while explaining his limitations, because you knew they would be a good home for him. Time for them to own up to their responsibilities and be the good home they said they would be (despite thinking he was more than he was). 
Ahhh people sometimes. I am glad they didn't press further for you to get involved.


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## LoriF

A spinal tap is the best thing to do to see if EPM has gone through the barrier, but even then, if blood gets into the sample it can still create a false positive. It doesn't take much blood at all to create that.

The only thing that I would worry about is that they knew what was said and where you were coming from with giving him to them. That being said, they sound like the kind of people who don't want to take responsibility for their own thoughts and actions so it would make me worry what they are going to do with him. That is why I say I would take him back and sell him for a trail horse. He might not be a competition horse, but other than that, he seemed to be a pretty good guy. I do know that if you can't you can't though. I understand that.


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## phantomhorse13

On my phone so can’t quote.. but somehow I had forgotten Forrest was a warmblood.. I wonder if he was a dummy foal?

For whatever reason that seems to happen more often with warmbloods and being slow to learn can often be a lifelong. I have known two and both had issues retaining training..


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## Tihannah

LoriF said:


> A spinal tap is the best thing to do to see if EPM has gone through the barrier, but even then, if blood gets into the sample it can still create a false positive. It doesn't take much blood at all to create that.
> 
> The only thing that I would worry about is that they knew what was said and where you were coming from with giving him to them. That being said, they sound like the kind of people who don't want to take responsibility for their own thoughts and actions so it would make me worry what they are going to do with him. That is why I say I would take him back and sell him for a trail horse. He might not be a competition horse, but other than that, he seemed to be a pretty good guy. I do know that if you can't you can't though. I understand that.


It would still take a competent rider to take him on the trails. He just doesn't listen or respond well to rider cues and he's very forward. Like the minute you get in the saddle, he's off and the walk just continues to get faster and then once he feels any contact in the reins, he'll instantly start trotting and WHOA and half halts mean nothing to him. He doesn't bolt with you, but you're on a huge 17.1h horse with suspension that just throws you out of the saddle running around with no real direction. When you try to use your reins to gain some control, he goes nose to the sky and locks his neck, so it would take a knowledgeable rider to be able to bring him back under control. This is why I gave up on the idea of selling him. Because the average rider that came out to try him, not knowing he was truly a gentle horse, would have said NO WAY. :-/


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## PoptartShop

I am glad they were short and to the point in their response. Exactly. THEY should be taking care of it, not you. One less thing for you to worry about now, they will have to take responsibility.


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## KigerQueen

I love people. if they want to say you knew direct them to his old thread. they are just throwing a tantrum. some horses are just how they are. and you cannot change them. Plain and simple. Apparently they did not like to find that out. also if someone is giving away a NICE horse away for FREE there TENDS to be an issue. like his and his inability to learn well. also bs on the tail thing. odie had that happen. ummm his back was out...


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## Tihannah

Not much to report on North this week. Only rode once Monday for a short period. I somehow managed to sprain my ankle, so we did groundwork Tuesday, took Wednesday off, and Thursday, a new chiropractor came out. She was phenomenal and really took her time and pinpointed and fixed all problem areas. I told her about him going through the fence and galloping down the road when he first arrived and she believed that most of what she saw was likely a result of that. I think what surprised me the most is that she kept calling out things I've seen with him, but didn't tell her about. Heck, some of them I just thought was part of his baby quirks. Nope, he was sore and as soon as she fixed him up, it was gone. I've seen 4 different chiropractors prior to her, and she was hands down, the best and most thorough of the bunch AND the cheapest. Half the cost of my last chiro and spent about an hour with each horse. My previous chiro was usually done in 15-20 minutes! I was very impressed and North seemed to be very pleased with the results. When I turned him out that evening, he was quite spunky and did some galloping with a few bucks. He looked like he felt really good and his canter was simply lovely to watch.

I'd hoped to get a ride in today, but the sky opened up as soon as I started grooming him. I hung out with him and cleaned his stall and by the time I was finished, the storm had passed, so I turned him out for the night.

The new barn has also put me in touch with an independent saddle fitter! She is from Texas, but will be coming our way at the end of September. I've already spoken to her on the phone and addressed my concerns. I know my saddle needs to be reflocked to him, but he still has so much growing to do and is quite butt high. I hope we can make my saddle work for awhile as he continues to grow. I also ordered him a new thinline half pad. We've only ridden in it once and the weekend forecast is dismal with thunderstorms so I don't know if we'll get to ride at all. :-( I've seen the difference on the ground from the chiro, but I'd really like to see the change in the saddle. Hopefully, we'll get at least one ride in before I have to go back to work on Tuesday!


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## Tihannah

Well, I did manage to get a ride in yesterday, but now it'll be more than the weather that keeps me from riding. :-(

It was towards the end of the ride and we were walking on a long rein when a large truck came speeding down the road parallel to where we were riding. It happened so fast that I never had time to gain control. North bolted forward, then a small buck and a spin and I came off the side. It didn't even hurt when I fell and I laughed about it. North stood there waiting for me to get up, and as soon as I did, he came over and nuzzled me. When I tried to get back on, I felt a sharp pain in my lower back and decided against it. My guy was with us, so we started walking back to the barn. With each step, the discomfort increased until I asked him to lead North. I got him put away and we headed home. It felt like I'd sprained my sciatic nerve, which happened once before on Tess, and I would just have to see the chiro first thing Tuesday.

By the time we made it home, I could barely get out of the car and into the house. I managed to get into the bed with help from my guy, but even that was extremely painful. It wasn't long before I realized it was more than just a muscle strain. The entire night was excruciating. Every slight move was an explosion of pain from my lower back straight down through my thigh. It took 4 attempts before I could make it to the bathroom. Each time the pain would hit me, I'd start sweating, get dizzy, and feel like I couldn't breathe. The pain meds I had had no effect whatsoever. By morning, I had to call an ambulance. Even with my guy's help, there was simply no way I could make it out to my car for him to drive me to the hospital.

When I got there, they checked me over and gave me something for pain, but that only brought it from a level 10 down to an 8. They did a CT scan and found 2 fractures in my lumbar transverse along with a strained sciatica. They said the good news was that I wouldn't need surgery, but the bad news is that it's extremely painful and it would take 4-6 weeks to completely heal. :-( They ended up giving me morphine to get me home, along with prescriptions for more pain meds and muscle relaxers. I am on bed rest the next few days and very light activity the next few weeks. 

The girls at the barn are great and said they would take care of North for me. Helen is also going to ride him for me. I really hate getting old and not being able to fall off a horse and bounce back like I used to. :-(


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## LoriF

So sorry that you got hurt:frown_color: That really sucks and sounds really painful

Falling off when young is usually better but not always. My worst fall happened when I was a kid. Broken collar bone, fractured wrist and shoulder blade. And the horse didn't even do anything. My friend and I were riding bareback doubled up on my gelding and we tried to squeeze through a small gate without getting off. My pants leg got caught on the pole and drug me off and I drug my friend off with me trying to hold on. I landed on concrete and she landed on me. End of story. Except that I lied and said that I fell off of my bike because I instinctively knew that my horse riding adventures would be highly micro managed after that if it was known what really happened. In hind sight, I think that my mother probably knew that it was horse related in some way and just didn't call me out on it. She wasn't stupid and we couldn't get much past her EVER.

Just let your body rest. Sending healing vibes your way.


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## Dragoon

I am sorry for your accident!

I liked your post for your upbeat attitude and recognizing that North is not to blame. Well, he is...but isn't. 
He isn't evil, or crazy, or in dire need of professional intervention. He is a baby, and acted like a horse. Accidents happen..I'm glad you have good people around you for support. I hope you heal quickly and are back in the saddle soon!

That level of pain for a fracture sounds terrible! Maybe you are resistant to analgesics? Get lots of rest! Sleep heals.
North will be fine He'll be busy, eating and growing! Its a full time job.


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## knightrider

So sorry you got hurt. Hope you feel better soon. That's such a bummer. Sending healing prayers.


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## DanteDressageNerd

I am so sorry about your accident Tina, I hope you make a quick and full recovery. That really sucks :-(


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## egrogan

Geez, not good news to read. Sorry that happened, and sending you healing vibes!


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## Golden Horse

Oh KAKA, that is so unlucky, sending you all sorts of healing vibes. Oh to bounce like a kiddy again!


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## Tihannah

Thank you all for the well wishes. I have seriously never known pain like this in my life. It's just brutal. All it takes is the slightest wrong movement and the pain causes me to scream out. I can't sit up, so my only options are laying down and standing up and I can't stand for very long. I can only walk when the meds are in full effect, but I have to take baby steps or more pain. 

My poor guy has been a saint waking up all during the night to help me when I've turned wrong or have to go to the bathroom. Getting out of bed is actually easier than getting into bed. I have to be positioned JUST right lying down or the pain is unbearable! I just keep hoping it gets better and a little easier for me. The meds are giving me crazy dreams, and on top of all this, we have a tropical storm headed straight for us and is due to make land by tomorrow night. We've got storm surge warnings and we live 2 blocks from the beach.:-( This is definitely not my week!


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## knightrider

Oh dear. I was following that storm and hoping you were NOT in the path. Thinking of you and hope the storm . . . and your pain . . . are not too bad.


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## seabiscuit91

I feel your pain, I've had 2 spinal fusions before, both lumbar. 

Thankfully you don't need surgery! Not that it makes the pain any easier!
Could you possibly get a brace from your doctor? They are annoying, but sometimes it can really help having something that "holds you in" place a little more. 
Also get a "grabber" like a claw on a stick to pick things up! Life savers! 

Wishing you a speedy recovery!


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## carshon

sending healing thoughts your way!


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## lostastirrup

Oh no! injuries are the worst! Ill pray for your speedy healing.


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## PoptartShop

I am SO sorry this happened to you. I can't even imagine the pain. :sad: Back pain is no joke, & this sounds extremely painful. I really hope the 4-6 weeks go by fast so you can get back to everything again. I am very glad you will not need surgery, thank goodness. 

Please rest, take care of yourself & feel better. 
PS- that was super adorable of North to nuzzle you & check up on you...he loves you. <3 You need some horse cuddles as soon as you feel better. And props to your guy for helping, that's a real man! I am glad you did the right thing & went to the hospital ASAP. Take baby steps, that's OK...I know it's going to be hard but you will get through this.


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## LoriF

Hope you guys are doing alright with the weather on you, stay safe.


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## Tihannah

We made it through the storm no problem! It passed by just east of us. I'm not even sure it rained! So grateful right now. All the horses at the barn are fine and they only lost power for a couple hours.

And on an even better note, I was able to sit up this morning in a lounge chair for about 20 minutes for the first time since Saturday! It felt so good, but really wore me out. It really sucks being bedridden. Everything else starts aching and all you wanna do is get up and move around!

Several non-horsey friends and my mom, of course, have asked or told me I need to give up riding. It's too dangerous, blah, blah, blah. Meanwhile I'm just planning how I can better prepare myself for the next time. More vitamins, yoga, strength building, and working on my seat! They could never understand how much I love it.


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## LoriF

Really glad to hear from you and just as glad that you guys didn't get plummeted by the storm to badly. 

Good for you that you are feeling improvements. A little at a time, don't push it too hard. The only time I have been bed ridden has been with the flu so I didn't care. I can only imagine. I was stuck in the hospital for five days without being horribly injured or sick and it drove me crazy.

Sometime you just can't control how you fall and you are going to get hurt. The things you are thinking of doing will help though. Even if you didn't ride, it certainly couldn't hurt to be stronger, more pliable and balanced. So I say go for it.

People don't understand that they are not really helping by worrying. I sometimes think that people think that they are supposed to worry. Don't be upset with them.


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## Tazzie

I'm so glad you're feeling a little better! And YAY about not getting the storm! We are getting the rain this weekend from it, joy :lol:

As for those telling you to give it up, they will never understand. Only other equestrians or those who fully understand having a passion for a hobby will understand why it's not that simple to just walk away.

But I think getting stronger will help! Though if an accident is going to happen, it will regardless of how fit you are! As my mom says, they are called "accidents." Not "on purposes".


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## PoptartShop

No WAY should you give up riding, are they crazy?! :lol: No way! Things like this just push us to do better.  I am glad you didn't get the storm, thank goodness. That was all you would've needed.

People that say those things really just don't get it. They don't understand like we do. It's our passion. Horses aren't just a thing we throw away or a sport we toss aside & just give up on...it's our lives!

You got this, and I love how positive your attitude is despite all of the pain you are in, I know you got this!!!


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## Tihannah

*Forrest is back home... :-(*

I got a text this morning from a friend telling me she saw Forrest yesterday and he DID NOT look good. She said she wasn't even sure if it was him. The trainer that owns the therapy center said she didn't have an available stall for him yet, so she was keeping him at one of the other trainer's place till one opened up. She said a month or so. The other trainer brought him back to her place yesterday and my friend saw him. She said I needed to bring him home.

They were having a schooling show at her property today and my old BO/Trainer was there with one of her students, so I texted her and asked if she had room to bring Forrest back with her. I then texted the other trainer and told her I wanted to bring him home and I would take care of him. She questioned whether or not I would do the EPM treatment (which made me mad from what was being relayed to me). I told her he would get whatever he needed, and just like that she turned him over. She let me know that he had lost some weight last week cause of the storms (huh?) and had some rain rot, but his condition was basically because of the EPM. But once I had him treated, he would start to return to normal. She sent 30 days worth of the medicine with him.

When he came off the trailer, I broke down in tears. He looked AWFUL. He's lost so much weight, his hooves are all brittle and split and look like he's been standing in a pond for weeks and hasn't been trimmed since he was with me. He had an abscess draining from one of his hooves. He was COVERED in rain rot and sores. He has cuts and bite marks all over both sides of his hind. His coat looks like it hasn't been groomed since he left me. I simply couldn't believe it. This was supposed to be his soft landing. They swore to me that he would be well taken care of and he looks like he's been through hell the past 2 months. And all of this is being blamed on the EPM. 

I'm so furious right now. I am so physically limited that friends at the barn had to give him a medicated bath for me. They soaked his hoof in epsom salt and put medicine on his abscess and then keratex on his hooves. I couldn't even lead him because I can't walk faster than baby steps and his strides are just too big. We treated his rain rot, but there was so much, it was almost overwhelming. I've never seen it that bad - on any horse. He just has crusty sores all over. His coat is dull and dry and brittle and just comes off in handfuls. His mane that used to be so thick and lush I didn't know what to do with it, looks so dry and limp like straw. It looks like they just threw him out in a swamp pasture and left him. I worked so hard the past year trying to get him in top health and in 2 months, he is far worse than he was when he came to me. Helen was so angry and called BS on their EPM explanation of his condition. If he's had EPM all this time, why didn't he look like this when I had him?? And now here I am with a fractured back and not one, but TWO horses, and one that needs a lot of special care. I don't even know how I am going to manage this, but as soon as she told me, I just couldn't leave him there like that. I wanted him home immediately. 

We don't have a stall for him, so he is in a pasture, but its lush with grass and its dry. One of the ponies was also in his pasture at the previous barn, so I put him out with Forrest, and he looked relieved to see a familiar face. I honestly don't know how I'm gonna manage this physically or financially, but I have to get him better. I will have both the vet and farrier out next week as soon as they can come out. Below is a pic I took of him not even a month before he left, and the rest are from today. Seriously, I just don't know if I can take much more this week. :-(


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## Golden Horse

Oh jeez, there are no words....that is awful in such a short time..


OK, I'm going to be the nasty person who says it, but I can't be the only one who has thought it...have you seriously considered just putting the poor boy down? I know it seems crazy, but if this is what happens if you let him go elsewhere, then that isn't right. If you have to compromise on yourself or North, is that right? This poor horse is just high maintenance, and sounds like he may only be a pasture pet.....maybe a quick and easy end would not be the worst end for him.

Whatever you decide to do, I send healing vibes your way, and hope that Forrest finds peace and contentment. I would go on to wish that the person who had him never finds contentment again, but I guess I should hold off on that just in case he is actually ill, and that is what caused such a rapid decline.......but the bites, that isn't illness!


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## Tihannah

Golden Horse said:


> Oh jeez, there are no words....that is awful in such a short time..
> 
> 
> OK, I'm going to be the nasty person who says it, but I can't be the only one who has thought it...have you seriously considered just putting the poor boy down? I know it seems crazy, but if this is what happens if you let him go elsewhere, then that isn't right. If you have to compromise on yourself or North, is that right? This poor horse is just high maintenance, and sounds like he may only be a pasture pet.....maybe a quick and easy end would not be the worst end for him.
> 
> Whatever you decide to do, I send healing vibes your way, and hope that Forrest finds peace and contentment. I would go on to wish that the person who had him never finds contentment again, but I guess I should hold off on that just in case he is actually ill, and that is what caused such a rapid decline.......but the bites, that isn't illness!


I have considered it and I'm going to have my vet out next week to assess him and let me know the best route. The pictures don't even show how bad it is. EPM is one thing and just plain neglect and sub-care is another. How does she even know this other lady was really feeding him?? And how often did she see him while he was in their care? She wants me to believe he lost all that weight last week cause it rained a lot?? I watched him in the pasture and he moved well, dropped and rolled after his bath. He didn't move like you would think a horse with EPM in his condition should move. I will try to get video tomorrow.


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## Fimargue

Oh my lord... :shock: What the h*** is going on there. They just abandoned him in the field??? Because he didn't make a dressage horse (and blamed you on it, little twats). And what are all those bite marks?

I have been reading, but not commenting lately. I'm really pleased you have found happiness with North and I hope you heal real quick to get to enjoy him fully again!


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## Tihannah

Fimargue said:


> Oh my lord... :shock: What the h*** is going on there. They just abandoned him in the field??? Because he didn't make a dressage horse (and blamed you on it, little twats). And what are all those bite marks?
> 
> I have been reading, but not commenting lately. I'm really pleased you have found happiness with North and I hope you heal real quick to get to enjoy him fully again!


I honestly don't know what they did, but they definitely didn't take care of him as promised.


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## LoriF

It's not what they did, it's what they didn't do. Looks to me that they just didn't feed him. Honestly, I can feel your panic with the two horses and everything else that is putting stress on you lately, but I don't feel that it's fair to end his life because no one can deal with it right now. I feel bad for him, he's such a gentle soul.


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## Golden Horse

LoriF said:


> I don't feel that it's fair to end his life because no one can deal with it right now. I feel bad for him, he's such a gentle soul.



Neither is it fair for @Tihannah, her family or North to suffer to battle to get to an unknown destiny with Forrest.....look this is very very real for me right now, I'm having my own struggle with making the best decision for my old mare.....it is never ever easy to make that final decision, BUT I just wanted tihannah to know that there are those who would not fault her for making the hardest **** decision out there.....North is every bit as deserving of a great life as Forrest is, what if she can't support both...


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## DanteDressageNerd

I know we've talked but I am so sorry you're going through so much at once between your back and Forrest :-( that's an awful lot!

I also will not judge negatively if you decide to put Forrest down, in truth I think it is a kindness depending on what the outcome may be. But if it's going to cost a ton of money to fix him. I don't think it is worth it, especially since you've tried placing him in a situation and this is the result. I would be SO LIVID AND FREAKING MAD about the condition he was returned in. That is neglect, not EPM. People can be so awful and cruel.


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## egrogan

Oh that’s heartbreaking. I am so sorry that this has happened.


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## Tihannah

LoriF said:


> It's not what they did, it's what they didn't do. Looks to me that they just didn't feed him. Honestly, I can feel your panic with the two horses and everything else that is putting stress on you lately, but I don't feel that it's fair to end his life because no one can deal with it right now. I feel bad for him, he's such a gentle soul.


It's not even that no one can deal with it right now. I'm thinking of the long term and what it would entail to get him healthy and comfortable, if that's even a possibility. All the work and love and money I've invested into him for the past year and we're not even back at square one. We're at ground zero with no definitive outcome in sight.

I'm at a self-care barn now and can't even care for North. The ladies at the barn have stepped up and been taking turns caring for him until I am physically capable again. They're taking care of his feedings, turning in and out, and keeping his stall clean. They've been running to the store and getting his feed and shavings for me. And now I have another horse who needs special care. I live 40 minutes away and he'll need to be on 3 different medicines for the EPM that has to be administered orally every day, plus feeding. I can't afford to pay them now that I'm paying board for 2 horses, and they wouldn't want money, but still I feel bad.

The most discerning part is that there isn't a "cure" for EPM. There's an expensive treatment with "hopes" of stopping the progression and seeing improvement. The recommendation is 3-6 months of treatment to see the improvement. The medicine she gave me is for 30 days and costs $300. North is getting about a pound a half of feed a day. Forrest will need 8-10 pounds a day. He was getting 8lbs/day maintenance before he left.

These are all of the things I'm grappling with. Did I mention I also have 4 children ages 14-18? So yes, I have to consider the big picture and at this point, nothing decided will be easy for me.


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## LoriF

Tihannah said:


> It's not even that no one can deal with it right now. I'm thinking of the long term and what it would entail to get him healthy and comfortable, if that's even a possibility. All the work and love and money I've invested into him for the past year and we're not even back at square one. We're at ground zero with no definitive outcome in sight.
> 
> I'm at a self-care barn now and can't even care for North. The ladies at the barn have stepped up and been taking turns caring for him until I am physically capable again. They're taking care of his feedings, turning in and out, and keeping his stall clean. They've been running to the store and getting his feed and shavings for me. And now I have another horse who needs special care. I live 40 minutes away and he'll need to be on 3 different medicines for the EPM that has to be administered orally every day, plus feeding. I can't afford to pay them now that I'm paying board for 2 horses, and they wouldn't want money, but still I feel bad.
> 
> The most discerning part is that there isn't a "cure" for EPM. There's an expensive treatment with "hopes" of stopping the progression and seeing improvement. The recommendation is 3-6 months of treatment to see the improvement. The medicine she gave me is for 30 days and costs $300. North is getting about a pound a half of feed a day. Forrest will need 8-10 pounds a day. He was getting 8lbs/day maintenance before he left.
> 
> These are all of the things I'm grappling with. Did I mention I also have 4 children ages 14-18? So yes, I have to consider the big picture and at this point, nothing decided will be easy for me.


Believe me, I completely understand your predicament. What I said to you isn't anything that I wouldn't have had a conversation with myself as well. Please don't take it wrong, I'm not being judgmental.


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## knightrider

This is an awful story. My heart is just aching for you. My horse had EPM so badly, he could only stagger a few steps. My vet had Oroquin 10 compounded for me. He had to take it for 10 days and he made a 100% complete recovery. The total cost, including 3 vet visits and the medicine was $600.

I'm not sure what medicine Forrest is getting, but that seems a very long time . . . and 3 meds?

The sad ending to my story, is that for my horse, the EPM came back after 2 wonderful happy years of many many rides. Within 2 days, he could only stagger to keep his balance to stand and could not walk at all, and the vet recommended to euth him, which I did. I miss him even now and am crying, remembering all the fantastic rides and love he gave me.

My point is, there appears to be other meds that work faster and cost less. . . and in the end, you often lose the horse, so GH's idea is not outlandish at all. There is no cure for EPM (if he even has it, which I wonder about), but many horses are able to be controlled for many years. Mine was not one.

Of course, my horse's EPM was obviously a very fast acting case, but he never lost any weight at all.


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## Tihannah

LoriF said:


> Believe me, I completely understand your predicament. What I said to you isn't anything that I wouldn't have had a conversation with myself as well. Please don't take it wrong, I'm not being judgmental.


I did not take it wrong at all and totally understand your sentiment. I love the big, dumb lug. I just wanted to clarify the situation I'm dealing with.

Me and my guy went out again today. Helen was supposed to ride North for me, but ended up teaching 4 lessons and ran out of time. I brought Forrest in and wormed him, gave him another medicated bath, treated his hooves, and went after the rain rot again. Had help from some of the girls since I can't yet bend over enough to do his hooves. I tried and almost blacked out from the sharp pain. Tackled and trimmed his mane and forelock. His forelock was halfway down his nose! We pulled North out and put Forrest in his stall to feed him lunch and give him some alfalfa. He's already looking better and looked so happy to be in a stall again and munching on alfalfa. If we had another stall available, I would try to figure out some way to put him on stall board.

I was better able to assess him today and found a kick on his right hind and it got me to thinking. It's obvious he was on pasture board only over there, and clearly in a pasture with horses that were bullying him. Forrest has always been a "keep to himself" type horse. At my previous barn, he was in a pasture with 10-12 other horses and never came in with any bite marks or kicks. He was fed in his stall. I'm guessing that IF they fed him, they fed him in the pasture and the other horses were beating him up for his food. At my old barn, pasture kept horses were separated into feeding pens and then let out when they were done to avoid this type of thing. 

This whole thing just makes me want to not start the EPM treatment on him yet. To just instead, give him the same care I was giving before and see what happens. Yes, he may very well have EPM, but their excuse of EPM for his condition just ****es me off and I want to prove them wrong.

I spent time grooming and hand grazing North while Forrest enjoyed his stall. Grooming Forrest and then grooming North made me appreciate how healthy and sound North is. His body is just solid to the touch, muscle everywhere, while poor Forrest is just a fraction of his former self. It made me feel good to see him look happy today though and I'm really glad I got him outta that situation. One of the girls brought 2 bags full of freshly picked pears from her parents property and Forrest could not have loved them more. So far, North won't touch even an apple! Lol.


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## Tihannah

knightrider said:


> This is an awful story. My heart is just aching for you. My horse had EPM so badly, he could only stagger a few steps. My vet had Oroquin 10 compounded for me. He had to take it for 10 days and he made a 100% complete recovery. The total cost, including 3 vet visits and the medicine was $600.
> 
> I'm not sure what medicine Forrest is getting, but that seems a very long time . . . and 3 meds?
> 
> The sad ending to my story, is that for my horse, the EPM came back after 2 wonderful happy years of many many rides. Within 2 days, he could only stagger to keep his balance to stand and could not walk at all, and the vet recommended to euth him, which I did. I miss him even now and am crying, remembering all the fantastic rides and love he gave me.
> 
> My point is, there appears to be other meds that work faster and cost less. . . and in the end, you often lose the horse, so GH's idea is not outlandish at all. There is no cure for EPM (if he even has it, which I wonder about), but many horses are able to be controlled for many years. Mine was not one.
> 
> Of course, my horse's EPM was obviously a very fast acting case, but he never lost any weight at all.


You see? This is what I am talking about! Forrest doesn't show those symptoms at all that you describe or I've read about. He had or has no balance issues. He doesn't stumble or stagger. He STILL has a nice even, big stride. When I turned him out yesterday, he dropped, rolled and then strode off into the pasture like normal. When I used to ride him, he was probably the only horse I ever rode that could trot or canter a 20 meter circle almost perfectly on his own. Even with his nose shot straight up in the air, he could canter wherever you pointed him. 

She gave me 2 bottles of ReBalance for the EPM (30 day treatment), a bottle of Vitamin E, and she said I will also have to give him Dexamethasone (steroid) to offset the effects the ReBalance will have on him. She said he would lose more weight and look really bad on the ReBalance for a little while and then start to get better. But each had to be given to him daily and the Dex for 10 days I think. I'm going to call my vet tomorrow to ask about the Oroquin 10. Thank you for the info!


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## LoriF

I have no doubt that his current condition was 100% due to lack of care. What a huge difference between then (when he left you) and now that he just came back. I would be disappointed too.


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## lostastirrup

Holy Heck! I just saw all these last posts! shame on them. Turn out board is minimal work, and the horse should not digress like that! thats absolutely uncalled for. best wishes in decision making with forrest, I can see both ends of the spectrum, I hope there is a perfect place for him, but I can also see letting him have a happy ending with you.


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## lsdrider

I'd probably be on my way to prison right now...

Best wishes to the both of you.


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## Cherrij

I am disgusted about how they have treated Forrest! Pasture board does not mean horses don't get care. 

There are many reasons why in Latvia pasture boards are increasing in popularity, mainly for people who don't compete though, however there are a few competing horses living 24/7 all year round in pastures with shelters. One of the main reasons is hay quality - quite often it is dusty and not the best, as noone seems to know how to collect good horse hay, so 24/7 with netted hay is the best how to keep horses breathing well. 
However, being on a pasture board does not mean that the horse does not get fed if it's needed and is neglected. We have 10-12 horses at the barn, at the moment 2 get fed supplements daily, One of them is mine, looks like there might be another few soon joining supplement feeding, and the BO has no problem with that. Even though it would be a lot easier to wait with the supplements till end of October when the horses will spend most of their time near the hay feeders, they go out of their way to make sure they get what they need. She said last year they fed one horse extra for the whole summer because he needed it! 

This spring we fed mine a little extra because he also needed it. 
So it's all just about wanting to do the right thing. 
And pasture boarding is not easier if you have small spaces. Now the barn has plenty of pasture that don't get poo picked, but just rested for a month or more, before the horses return. 

I had 5 on my property for winter, I only have 2 hectares available for horses, and I was poo picking a lot, checking fences, providing plenty of hay stations etc. 

And yes, our horses also have a few bites and kicks, but a few is normal... not being covered in them! 


I hope the best solution for Forrest comes easily, without too much sacrifice either way. If we were closer I would take forest home and babysit him!


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## carshon

My jaw dropped open at those pics. Seriously disturbed at how they could do this to him - and in 2 short months. Whatever path you choose I am sure you will put a lot of thought and care into. No judgement here. Sending healing and loving thoughts to you and your horses


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## jaydee

I've just caught up with your Journal and wanted to say how sorry I am to hear about your fall - best wishes for a speedy recovery. 
I'm also really sorry to hear about Forrest. I would think that his condition is all down to basic neglect, I followed your other Journal and while it was clear he had problems I'm not sure that any of them could have been easily described as symptoms of EPM. It seems odd that he was always the same when you had him and then this sudden decline in condition so soon after he went to the new home.
It is possible that he contracted it on their property if the serum IgG test is positive
The treatment could work but his debilitated condition isn't going to benefit recovery. A high dose of Vitamin E is supposed to be good for recovering horses.
My concern is that even if he does recover he's unlikely to ever be a safe trail riding horse for an average rider, you might be lucky to find someone who wants a companion horse but mostly those people prefer something smaller.
I know its always easier to give this advice to other people than it is to take it yourself - but euthanasia would probably be the wisest option to take.


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## PoptartShop

We have talked, but I have finally gotten around to reading this. I am so sorry. I am also highly disappointed in those people. They knew you wanted what was best for Forrest. You took such good care of him, he looks amazing in the first photo. I'm pretty speechless looking at the other photos. For them to do this, within the SHORT time that they have had him, is really just sickening. How do those people sleep at night?! Beyond me.

You have enough on your plate right now. You have a 3yr old, you have an injury which you are still recovering from, and not an easy one, plus the kids, and now this?! I know it's a LOT. Trust me, I understand completely. Whatever decision you make, I will stand by your side. Because at the end of the day...YOU know what is best for this horse. Period. You always have. It's a shame these people have done this to him, I am disgusted.

Plus I know it's hard since your barn is self-care. I am at a private, self-care barn as well & everything falls completely on you. I am glad people are helping, however, I know this will be a lot for you, physically & financially. 

I can't wait until the farrier/vet come. Then you will be able to make a decision, I know right now things are difficult & too much, I wouldn't make a decision just yet. Regardless, Forrest is back with you for a reason & he needs you, and you are doing everything that you can right now. That is all that matters. 

Hugs & please keep us posted!


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## Tihannah

I SWEAR, I just need some good things to happen right now!! Last night was unbelievable! 

The same trainer sent some ugly messages to Helen and her student's mom over some totally misunderstood 2nd hand information about her daughter that I asked a mutual friend about. She came at them basically accusing us of gossiping about her daughter because of an incident at the show and I guess the mutual friend just felt like causing some drama. Helen was blindsided and angry and the whole situation was totally misconstrued.

I was FURIOUS. Are you kidding me??

I was so ****ed I couldn't even sleep last night and my back was killing me from tending to 2 horses at that barn yesterday, so I was wide awake at 4am. The fact that the mutual friend would create unnecessary drama over nothing, and then the trainer went straight back to Helen and accused of her of ridiculous things from 2nd hand information, AFTER returning Forrest to me in such horrible condition. That was it and I couldn't hold back anymore. I sent her this reply at 5am this morning clarifying the actual conversation regarding her daughter and then laying into her about Forrest. I've only included the portion about Forrest.



> And even BEYOND that, I have been grappling with the condition in which Forrest was returned to me. EPM is one thing, but when he stepped off that trailer, I was HORRIFED and broke down in tears. Did you REALLY look at him when she brought him back to you?? I was told my horse would be loved and well cared for and he came back looking like a rescue situation. He did not lose “some” weight. He lost ALL weight. Even his face is hollowed out.
> 
> He was COVERED in rain rot and sores. His hind quarters are covered in countless bite marks and he had an untreated kick to his right hind leg. His front left hoof was draining abscess and all 4 hooves looked like they’d been standing in a swamp for weeks and hadn’t been trimmed since he was with me. His coat was so nasty, dry and brittle like he hadn’t been groomed in months. And to try and wrap my brain around all this and you questioning whether or not I would “give him a chance”. I spent the past year doing everything I could to make this horse healthy and in 2 month’s time, he is but a fraction of his former self.
> 
> Below is a picture I took of him in May, a picture "Other Trainer" posted of him in July, and pictures I took of him when he came off the trailer on Saturday. If Helen, Student or I were the kind of petty, gossiping people you perceive, then THIS is the gossip you would be hearing about and NOT your daughter. So from here out, I think all our communication can be done.


She messaged me back only minutes later trying to apologize for Helen and saying she didn't understand what happened with Forrest. That her vet saw him only 2 weeks before and he was not that thin. She said he was brought in every day and fed in a stall and groomed, so she didn't know why he was in such bad condition. She said she would get with the other trainer and try to figure out what happened. I didn't even reply to her.

There is NO WAY in hell that Forrest was brought in every day and fed and groomed. Is she gonna tell me her vet saw his condition and thought he looked okay?? If so, she's in the wrong profession! I left a message this morning with my vet to call and discuss his condition and the EPM and how we should move forward.


----------



## carshon

All lies! no way he got that way in 2 weeks. Never - Ever!


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## egrogan

What a mess. I can't even imagine how a person could say all those things to you with a straight face. 

Like so many other people have said, it would be completely understandable if you do decide that putting him down is the best option. I'm glad that at least he's back with you to make that call. 

Again, so sorry this is happening!


----------



## SilverMaple

Tihannah said:


> When I got there, they checked me over and gave me something for pain, but that only brought it from a level 10 down to an 8. They did a CT scan and found 2 fractures in my lumbar transverse along with a strained sciatica. They said the good news was that I wouldn't need surgery, but the bad news is that it's extremely painful and it would take 4-6 weeks to completely heal. :-( They ended up giving me morphine to get me home, along with prescriptions for more pain meds and muscle relaxers. I am on bed rest the next few days and very light activity the next few weeks.



I did that last year in October-- fell on some stairs trying not to step on a cat, and fractured two vertebrae and strained a bunch of stuff. I had a battle to get any pain meds at all, and aside from an injection in the ER (which I had to wait three hours to get because they insisted on a pregnancy bloodtest even though I informed them I was NOT pregnant) and three days worth of hydrocodone, they gave me nothing for pain. It was excruciating, but it didn't hurt any more to be up and around than it did to lie in bed, so I went to work, did chores that didn't include a lot of bending, etc. It finally started to feel better around Christmas, but I would recommend working with a physical therapist or at least starting with very gentle exercise to strengthen your core again and get flexibility back once you're healed. I can still tell my strength is low and my flexibility, which wasn't ever great to start with, is much worse. Feel better soon!


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## SilverMaple

I'm so sorry about Forrest. If he got that thin in two weeks, he'd have been dead in another week. And he's not. She just plain didn't feed him. Most likely they chucked him out in a pen with some other horses, and those horses ran him off the feed and kept him out of the shelter. So he basically spent his time there in the rain and sun, sweating himself into rain rot, with very little food. He doesn't look like an EPM horse, he looks like a starved horse. I think whatever decision you make for him will be the right one. Hugs to you, and I am so sorry this happened.


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## Tihannah

SilverMaple said:


> I did that last year in October-- fell on some stairs trying not to step on a cat, and fractured two vertebrae and strained a bunch of stuff. I had a battle to get any pain meds at all, and aside from an injection in the ER (which I had to wait three hours to get because they insisted on a pregnancy bloodtest even though I informed them I was NOT pregnant) and three days worth of hydrocodone, they gave me nothing for pain. It was excruciating, but it didn't hurt any more to be up and around than it did to lie in bed, so I went to work, did chores that didn't include a lot of bending, etc. It finally started to feel better around Christmas, but I would recommend working with a physical therapist or at least starting with very gentle exercise to strengthen your core again and get flexibility back once you're healed. I can still tell my strength is low and my flexibility, which wasn't ever great to start with, is much worse. Feel better soon!


Holy cow! I don't know how you managed! They gave me 30 hydrocodone, 20 muscle relaxers, and 30 Naproxen to go home with and I complained about that! lol. I could barely walk at all the first few days and needed help getting in and out of bed. Just getting to the bathroom was painful. The slightest wrong turn or step made me scream with pain. Its been 9 days though, and it's gotten SO much better. Today was the first day I could take almost normal steps, but I still struggle with reaching down for anything and staying comfortable once the meds have worn off. I plan to return to work next week.


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## Tihannah

SilverMaple said:


> I'm so sorry about Forrest. If he got that thin in two weeks, he'd have been dead in another week. And he's not. She just plain didn't feed him. Most likely they chucked him out in a pen with some other horses, and those horses ran him off the feed and kept him out of the shelter. So he basically spent his time there in the rain and sun, sweating himself into rain rot, with very little food. He doesn't look like an EPM horse, he looks like a starved horse. I think whatever decision you make for him will be the right one. Hugs to you, and I am so sorry this happened.


I agree. He's only been back with me 3 days, and everyone at the barn is already saying how much better he looks. And all I'm doing is providing simple care. The girls are feeding him in the mornings (4lbs Ultium) and then in the afternoon I feed North and pull him out of his stall and then bring Forrest in. I give him another 4lbs plus the Equine Omega Complete Supplement which is rich in Vitamin E, Omegas, and good fat that he was on prior to them taking him, and a flake or two of alfalfa hay. I treat his rain rot, hooves, groom him, give him a couple fresh pears as treats, and then turn him out again and he looks happy and content. I will give it a few weeks and post a comparison pic. Still waiting on the vet to call me back, so I'm not gonna start the EPM treatment until he's had a chance to come out and look at him.


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## Tihannah

My blood is BOILING right now and I need to calm down. The trainer just sent me what is supposed to be the "Journal" that the other trainer kept of Forrest's care. It's so full of sh*t I can't even believe she would have the gall to send me that. It goes all the way back to the day they picked him up, but below is just what I copied going back a month. She sent it in a Word doc. I removed names.



> August 12th: AM and PM Feeding the same.
> Grooming: sore in pole area again. Will talk with *Trainer* about when vet would be due back again.
> 
> Riding: Really good work to the left. Two whole circles on consistent contact to the left. To the right is still takes him a long time but actually gave me a whole circle on contact to right. His fitness still not there.
> 
> August 13th: AM and PM Feeding the same.
> 
> Grooming: Pulled his mane again and re-clipped a longer bridle path. He has so much forelock.
> 
> Ride: He gave me some good work but still feels just sluggish. So we went to work out in the field. He was better but tripped a lot.
> 
> August 14th: AM and PM feeding the same. Vet day
> Ride: I rode him lightly before vet came to check him. He was happy to work but still felt sluggish.
> 
> Vet checked his alignment and he was little sore but not out. She said he looked like he’s put on some top line. Decided to do neuro exam after we got to talking about how he felt sluggish and his fitness was not really coming along. Just to rule out EPM as the main cause in the first place of him looking muscle wasted.
> 
> August 15th: AM and PM Feeding the same. Rest day for him. He was happy to come in and have his feet treated.
> 
> August 16th: AM and PM feeding the same.
> 
> Light hack and some raised pole work today. Hopefully the raised poles will help strengthen his hind end. He was happy to walk and trot over them. Didn’t canter him today
> 
> August 17th: AM and PM feeding the same. Rain…
> August 18th: AM and PM feeding the same. Treated his feet with spray. Light hack in field but so wet here
> August 19th: AM and PM feeding the same: To much rain to do anything really
> 
> August 20th: AM and PM feeding the same. Forrest spent good amount of day in stall to help with feet.
> 
> August 21st: Am and PM feeding the same. May increase the S&S he is a big guy
> 
> Flat work today. He was very happy to work but still felt sluggish.
> 
> August 22nd: AM and PM feeding the same. Forrest has EPM. Will start doing rain drop therapies on him every few days to help boost his immune system. He loved his today.
> 
> August 23rd: AM and PM Feeding the same.
> 
> August 24th: AM and PM feeding the same. Probably the last ride on Forrest. He was a good boy. So sad he has EPM…my heart is broken. He got another rain drop therapy today. Along with extra frankincense.
> 
> August 25th: AM and PM feeding the same.
> 
> August 26th: AM and Pm Feeding the same. Today he got a third feeding. Also rain drop therapy.
> 
> August 27th: Am and PM Feeding the same. Farrier day. Farrier was very happy with his feet.
> 
> August 28th: AM and PM feeding the same. Frankincense oil applied on brow
> 
> August 29th: AM and PM feeding the same
> 
> August 30th: AM and PM feeding the same
> 
> August 31st: AM and PM Feeding the same. Rain drop therapy
> 
> September 1-3: Out of town. *Worker* did feeding and farm sitting while I was out of town.
> 
> September 4th: Prep for hurricane. Am and Pm feeding the same. Forrest wore fly mask during storm. All horses were turned out
> 
> September 5th: Horses checked all ok. Forrest came in got a bath after storm.
> September 6th: AM and PM feeding the same. He is the only one here after the storm skin looks horrible. Bathed and treated his skin. Due to no immune system.
> 
> September 7th: AM feeding. Didn’t get a chance to bath him again but did treat his rot skin. Hauled to MEC


His hooves are longer than I've ever seen them, yet they claim he's been done TWICE since they've had him and the last was just on Aug 27th!! She said she was working on getting his vet paperwork together. This was my response to her:



> Please don't send me anything else from *Other Trainer*. This journal is bullsh*t. If you had really looked at him, you would know this journal is bullsh*t. No mention of the numerous scars and bite marks. No mention of the abscess. No mention of the bleeding kick to his right hind. The farrier was happy with his crumbling split hooves? Were all these things overlooked during the massages? I've had him 3 days and already he looks way better. Please just send his coggins. That's all I need. Thank you.


I can't. I just can't. It makes me SO LIVID that she would send me this. You'd have to be a blind person to look at this horse and think this journal in ANYWAY corresponds with his condition. Zero mention of the dramatic weight loss and the fact that EVERY rib in his body was showing. And when a horse starts dropping weight like that you don't mention it or think to increase his feed?? I like that she threw in there at the end "due to his immune system".  No, this is due to plain NEGLECT!! I just want to scream STOP LYING TO ME!!! Just apologize for what you did to him and GO AWAY!!! GO AWAY!!!


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## carshon

She is just trying to cover her buttocks- she knows what happened - and she knows that it may get out in the small horse community you are in. She is trying to "document" everything so it looks feasible that Forrest was ill and not neglected by she or anyone acting on her behalf. They thought they got a high dollar horse from a "newbie" owner and were going to work him a bit and then flip him. When it became apparent that he was exactly what you said he was and they would not be able to flip him they put him out and left him. Now she is in CYA mode because you have documented what he looks like and others at your barn doing his care can corroborate your findings.

Get his Coggins and be done. Honestly if it were me I would be shouting from the roof top what this person did to such a nice horse!


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## Tazzie

Going through exactly the same situation, know that it is that horrendous person trying to save face. She doesn't want you spreading word how awful he came back to you. If it does, who would send her free horses? No one. There is no way that journal lines up, and we all know it. Also, what the he!l is raindrop therapy? Sounds like some made up voodoo crap.

I'm sorry you're going through this. I'm supportive of whatever decision you decide to make for Forrest. He's a sweet boy and didn't deserve this treatment at all.


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## LoriF

Tihannah said:


> Just apologize for what you did to him and GO AWAY!!! GO AWAY!!!


This would be the next and very last thing that I would text her, and then BLOCK so I wouldn't have to see anything else and be tempted to respond. Then I would just get on with life not having to be angry anymore.


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## PoptartShop

WOW! I am appalled just reading that! There is no way that journal is accurate...they really think they can just do that?! Doesn't line up at ALL. No way. No mention of anything...such liars. I also want to know what is raindrop therapy????? My barnmate's horse has EPM & he has never done that with him...never even heard of it. Ridiculous.

I hope they send the coggins & then you can just delete them out of your life. They are HORRIBLE people for this, & it's disgusting what they have done to poor Forrest. I am sure he is already looking better; he was totally neglected & they are trash for not even being apologetic or realizing what they have done...they should not have horses. Period.

I'd love to give them a review! :lol:


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## knightrider

I also wondered about "raindrop therapy" and googled it. Apparently, it is controversial.

The Controversy Surrounding Raindrop Therapy | Women of Grace

Doesn't sound very effective if he does, indeed, have EPM.


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## SilverMaple

Some EO's do have medicinal properties. However, even most aromatherapists who are LICENSED to work with EOs will tell you raindrop therapy is bunk.


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## LoriF

Sounds to me that raindrop therapy to them is leaving the horse out in the elements until he has rain rot, bite marks and not food. He got raindrop therapy alright.


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## Tihannah

Yea, the whole oils thing seems to be picking up in our area. Not sure what it's supposed to do or how it works, but it definitely didn't do a thing for Forrest. Perhaps she thought sprinkling oil and "Frankensense" on him would help him gain weight and cure EPM? She responded with more excuses today so I sent her another pic of Forrest today where, even though he's still thin and ribby, you can definitely see the improvement just from regular meals and care since Saturday. A couple of the girls went XC schooling today, so he got to spend the day in a stall munching hay. He got another bath and treatment of the rain rot and his hooves. The rain rot is 10 times better.

He also confirmed my suspicions today about being fed in the pasture and having to fight for his food. This morning, one of the girls' husband went out to feed him and bring in the pony he's sharing a pasture with. He had the pony on a lead and was trying to dump his feed and Forrest kicked out at him twice. This is something he would have NEVER done before. He felt like he had to protect himself from the pony when being fed.

Also spoke with my vet this morning. I told him the situation, Forrest's condition, and what they gave me for the EPM treatment and we discussed the Oroquin-10. He said he much prefers the Oroquin-10 and that he's found it to be far more successful and much cheaper than the ReBalance. He's coming Friday to begin the 10 day treatment and then said he will be on a powder for 90 days. He thinks it will clear up the EPM symptoms. My farrier will be out Thursday to take care of his hooves. I still don't have a plan for the future for him. I guess I'm going to play it by ear for now. 

These are the pics I sent her today. It's as if they weren't feeding him AT ALL.


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## Hidalgo13

Wow what an improvement! Good on you, he's flourishing so quickly back in your care. I hope an answer about what to do with Forest will become clear in time. Not an easy situation, but it's amazing that your barn is being really supportive in this whole affair. Prayers and good thoughts coming your way!


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## PoptartShop

He is already looking MUCH better back in your care. Sounds like she is chock full of excuses. She can take them and shove them up her you-know-what. & about him kicking, that raises my suspicions as well. I hope the EPM symptoms go away & the boy starts feeling better again...poor thing has been through so much. Playing it by ear is probably the best thing you can do right now. Excited for the farrier & vet to come out, that will give you some hope.


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## LoriF

I am so glad that he's showing so much improvement.


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## SilverMaple

He looks so much better in just three days... they weren't feeding him, and he was likely very dehydrated, too, to have put on that much weight that quickly.


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## Tihannah

SilverMaple said:


> He looks so much better in just three days... they weren't feeding him, and he was likely very dehydrated, too, to have put on that much weight that quickly.


Agreed. He's still very thin, but he no longer looks like he's knocking on death's door. His coat looks better and everything is healing. Someone informed me this morning that the "Other Trainer" is more concerned about people hearing that she starved him than his actual well being and complained that she used $300 worth of oils on him. Maybe that's where all the feed money went?

I just want to put all this behind us and not be concerned about those people again.


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## Tihannah

North finally got a groundwork session with Helen today. Tomorrow she will ride him. He's only been ridden once in the past 3 weeks because of weather and my accident, so I'm pretty sure he thought he was retired. Lol. They started on the lunge, but being the big baby that he is, he kept either trying to head back to the barn or run towards me. Definitely a momma's boy. Lol. So we moved him to the round pen.

Roundpen work was much better, but still, each time he came towards the side I was standing on, he wanted to stop as if to say, "MOM! Help me!" Lol. I probably let him get away with too much and he's a tad spoiled, so he's definitely not used to someone other than me telling him he HAD to work. They did trot work in both directions, just trying to get him to stretch down and relax, and then a little bit of canter. He's still very unbalanced in the canter and still figuring out where his feet are, so she didn't push it. It was a good 20-25 session. When they were done, he stood at the other side of the pen pouting about having to work, lol, and wouldn't follow Helen out, so I went in to get him. He's so freakin cute.

As we walked back to the barn, Helen reiterated again how lucky I was to find him. How he's not even built like a typical TB and his conformation will make dressage easy for him and he has such a great brain. She still believes he will excel more in straight dressage than if I tried to event him. Since I can't ride, she wants me to continue the groundwork with him, helping him learn how to balance and stretch down. She said that he's really up in the neck, so learning to stretch will be hard, but very beneficial for him. She remarked on what a nice topline he has despite being worked so little, and said that if we continue the stretching work, in a few weeks, his topline would be amazing. She said her younger mare loses topline so easily if she doesn't keep up with the dressage work on her.

Forrest was brought in to get groomed, some stall time, hay and dinner while we worked with North. He really enjoys stall time. The girls at the barn simply can't get over how much and how quickly he's improved since Saturday. North got a bath, pampering, then fed before I pulled both out for a pic. I swear, I have no idea how I'm gonna make this work, but I love both these boys so much. :-(


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## egrogan

Awesome picture! Glad to see you out and smiling :grin:


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## carshon

That picture! I am glad to hear that North is progressing well. He sure is stunning to look at. And Forrest - if I were closer I would take him in a heart beat. Wonder if warmbloods make good trail horses? hmmm....


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## PoptartShop

I LOVE that picture. <3 You look so happy with your boys! Glad to see you with a smile on your face, despite all the craziness that has been going on. Forrest already looks like he's in such great spirits. You can tell he's happier. & North is just so cute, such a babyface!

I am glad he did well with the groundwork even after having some time off.  Groundwork will be good for him, it's all I've been doing with Promise lately. It will pay off for these babies. LOL that's so funny he gave you that look, he loves his mama! Such a good boy! He's like save me, woman! I thought I retired early, darn it! :lol: 

They are both so handsome and spoiled.


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## knightrider

You look so good, and those two horses look fabulous. Forrest has come back so quickly with time and love.

What we are not seeing are updates on your back? What are you able to do? How much pain? What does the doctor say? Hope you are mending as quickly as Forrest!


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## Tihannah

PoptartShop said:


> I LOVE that picture. <3 You look so happy with your boys! Glad to see you with a smile on your face, despite all the craziness that has been going on. Forrest already looks like he's in such great spirits. You can tell he's happier. & North is just so cute, such a babyface!
> 
> I am glad he did well with the groundwork even after having some time off.  Groundwork will be good for him, it's all I've been doing with Promise lately. It will pay off for these babies. LOL that's so funny he gave you that look, he loves his mama! Such a good boy! He's like save me, woman! I thought I retired early, darn it! :lol:
> 
> They are both so handsome and spoiled.


As I watched Helen working with him yesterday, I just couldn't get over how amazing he looked. Just his overall build and the fact that he's only 3. I've always had seniors who I've struggled with to either maintain weight or build topline and muscle. Just watching him move in all his natural beauty is stunning. I wish I could have seen Forrest back in his prime days. He must've been breathtaking.


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## Tihannah

knightrider said:


> You look so good, and those two horses look fabulous. Forrest has come back so quickly with time and love.
> 
> What we are not seeing are updates on your back? What are you able to do? How much pain? What does the doctor say? Hope you are mending as quickly as Forrest!


I am also coming back quickly. I'm almost amazed because just last weekend I still struggled getting in and out of bed, and today I feel almost normal again. Yesterday was the first day I went without any pain meds at all and I spent the whole day at the barn with my boys. I even mucked North's stall, though I probably shouldn't have cause I was hurting afterwards and had to sit down a minute. 

But yeah, I definitely feel MUCH better and the pain is minimal and bearable now. I'm going to return to work on Monday even though they said I could take up to 4 weeks off. I have an office job, so I think I'll be fine. I'm going to get a back brace to help with the long days sitting. 

Its killing me not being able to ride, but I don't want to rush it and be back where I started or even worse.


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## jaydee

Looking at how quickly Forrest is recovering just makes it completely clear that those people neglected and underfed him


Horses like him can be a lot happier as trail horses than they are as arena horses.


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## SilverMaple

So glad your back is doing better! If you were closer, Forrest could come hang out in my pasture and go for the occasional ride down the road. He's a pretty boy.


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## Tihannah

Spent a little time with the boys today. Both vet and farrier are coming tomorrow to take care of Forrest and replace a shoe lost on North. Both were supposed to come last week, but got tied up. Forrest got another grooming session. Rain rot is almost gone and each day his weight is getting better. The stall next to North was freed up, so I brought Forrest in for dinner and hay. He and North got more acquainted and North was instantly infatuated with him. Forrest is such a quiet, easy soul that it's hard not to fall in love with him. I think North would've climbed in his stall if I had let him. They were adorable together. 

I took video of Forrest munching on hay in the stall. One week since he arrived and he is steadily proving what outright liars those people are. I also snapped a few pics of he and North getting acquainted. 

You might want to mute the sound. The fan in the barn has a bad belt and makes a terrible screeching noise, but today was so hot, we just dealt with it.


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## carshon

Those are framable pictures of the boys! And you are right. Outright liars - Forrest is looking great. I am glad that you seem to be feeling better too.


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## PoptartShop

Forrest is looking SO much better, wow! He looks so much healthier now...it's great to see what PROPER care can do...ugh those people I swear! They are such liars & it's disgusting. Horrible people. He looks a lot better.

OMG they are so cute! You definitely need to frame those pictures. They look like such happy brothers.  So sweet. I'm sure North really likes his calm nature.

Please keep us posted on how the vet & farrier visit goes today. Fingers crossed for Forrest!


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## Tihannah

Forrest officially started the EPM treatment today on Oroquin 10. My vet was shocked at his condition since he'd just seen him in May. He said that he did think Forrest could have EPM after watching him go and testing a few things, but his condition was definitely contributed to neglect and not the EPM. He will get a paste for 10 days, and then a scoop of some powder added to his feed for 90 days. The vet thinks I should see a big improvement overall in about 2 weeks and to keep him posted. He also got a steroid shot to help with allergies. I noticed the past couple days that he's been panting out in the pasture. The vet said it wasn't bad, but the shot would definitely help and he would get better as the weather cools down.

The farrier was just as shocked and said there was no way in hell his feet were done August 27th. He said if that's what they're claiming, then they need a new farrier. He agreed that Forrest had definitely been standing in water and said he'd never seen his feet look that bad, simply because we never had issues with Forrest's feet. When he was done, Forrest's feet looked SO much better. He was also skeptical about the EPM diagnosis though. He said he's worked with horses with EPM, and when he'd lift a leg, they'd almost fall over or had trouble standing. Forrest had none and stood quietly while he worked on his feet.

North on the other hand! He's so freakin cute. The toddler in him simply couldn't stand quietly while he was having his feet done! Lol. He was trying to play with the farrier, take his tools - just being the big baby that he is. You can't help but love him! We did some roundpen work today and it all carried over. Each time he started to stretch down, he used it as an opportunity to grab some grass, then bolt off, running around the roundpen with a huge wad of grass, roots, and dirt hanging from his mouth. We'd have to stop, pull all the grass out and get him going again. I couldn't help but laugh at his silly butt.

Video of North before we headed to the roundpen. Clearly tarps will not be an issue for this kid.


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

Boy Forrest has changed a TON in the short time you've had him, clearly they're full of sh!t. @ss holes!!

lol It's remarkable how North and Forrest's coloring is almost the same lol I'm so glad you have them in your life and it sounds like you're feeling a lot better than before! I have no doubt you'll pull through this and it will be better than ever before!

Hope the EPM treatment makes a real difference!


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## carshon

That pic of North with the tarp made me laugh. I had a mouthy young gelding - too smart for his own good. he could untie himself, remove fly masks, undo trailer ties, remove leg wraps, loves to steal hats. You can't get mad because they are so darn cute!


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## PoptartShop

North is so playful, it's adorable. He reminds me so much of Promise, because she would do the same thing with the tarp OMG. LOL! The toddlers just wanna play. :lol: I love it. What a personality! That's the best thing about having a young horse. They really are like kids. :rofl: Always trying to play with everything!! So entertaining. I can't deal!

& the vet is right. There's no way he was in that condition from EPM alone. I am glad he is going to get treatment though, & with proper care of course, he will do just fine I think. It sounds like you got a good report from the vet visit and he will improve. I'm happy for you and Forrest.  

I've watched the video of North a few times already, can't help it, he's just adorable!!


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## Tihannah

More roundpen work this week! Tuesday was a bit of a mess. I have spoiled North and often give in to his refusals cause, well,he's so darned cute! Lol. So Tuesday's session, I had to recruit one of the girls. I've been trying to work on getting him going, relaxed, and stretching down over his back, but Tuesday, he would have none of it, and I couldn't get him to trot more than a half circle without stopping and facing me. The kid is just too **** smart. He learned quickly in our join up sessions, that if he stopped and turned into me, that he wouldn't have to go. So then he would stop and turn in, trying to come to me after only a few strides! 

I am still not 100%, and he is not that scared of the lunge whip, so it was hard for me trying to keep him going, so one of the young barn girls stepped in. She directed him from the inside, and I directed him from the outside, and it literally took both of us to keep him going. He was not happy with us! Lol. Lots of snorting and trying to stop. When we finally managed to get 2 continuous trot circles out of him, we called it quits and praised him. We even did a little canter, which only produced more snorting and nonsense.

Yesterday was a new day. I guess he'd finally figured out what we wanted and for the first time, resigned to actually work, and gave us some beautifully stretchy trot work. We were both surprised. He was relaxed and quiet and seemed to really enjoy the stretching. We still need to work on more impulsion from him, but we were both really impressed with how quickly he caught on and responded to the praise we gave him for being a good boy.  Helen is riding him this evening and hopefully, I will get more video today. Really proud of my baby boy and how he's coming along. Everyone at the barn calls him Baby North cause he has such a toddler personality and they just love him. Below is a short video I threw together from yesterday. Heading to the doc to get clearance to return to work Monday!


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## jaydee

Love the tarp video - those nervy, spooky TB's eh!!


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## DanteDressageNerd

I hope Helen had a good ride with Mr North. I'm glad you're enjoying him so much, I'm sure a few years ago you couldn't imagine having a 3yr old thoroughbred but in the end it seems he's the best fit for you and your goals. 

I hope they're able to do some more on your back or that you continue to heal so you feel better. I can't imagine the sort of pain you're in. Hope you feel better soon!


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## Tihannah

DanteDressageNerd said:


> I hope Helen had a good ride with Mr North. I'm glad you're enjoying him so much, I'm sure a few years ago you couldn't imagine having a 3yr old thoroughbred but in the end it seems he's the best fit for you and your goals.
> 
> I hope they're able to do some more on your back or that you continue to heal so you feel better. I can't imagine the sort of pain you're in. Hope you feel better soon!


Hahaha, if you would've told me even last year that I would have a 3yr old TB, I woulda said, "SHUT YO MOUTH! Never happen!" But what a joy he is. Will try to get some video posted tonight of the ride. He was fantastic yesterday. This morning? Not so much. Lol. Helen had to go outta town again this weekend, so we tried to squeeze in one more ride this morning. North was not about that life! It was 8am and before morning feeding and he simply would not stop either trying to run to me or back to the barn. Helen could not get him to focus and decided it was probably too much to ride him so close back to back like that and before breakfast. North's whole focus in life right now is food and Mom!  BUT, when he decides he's on board, man, he's just lovely! 

And thank you, back is much better and I have weened myself off the pain meds. Going back to work on Monday, though I'm not looking forward to it. I seriously need to find a way to become wealthy and unemployed so I can play with my ponies all day! ;-)


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## Tihannah

Just a few pics from the end of yesterday's morning ride.  Helen rode in a jump saddle with hopes of getting in some canter work, but North was not happy about working before breakfast and 2 days in a row, so we ended up cutting the ride short. We will do more work from the ground instead.


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## lostastirrup

Awww. Baby North is not a morning person.


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## DanteDressageNerd

lol I know you would, you told me I was crazy I think when I suggested an ottb lol a long time ago :lol: but it all works out the way it should right?

He looks super  you should be really pleased, he looks like he's coming along and being a super baby!

Hope your back is feeling better! I had a small taste of your pain, I tweaked my SI and I was in tears anytime I moved. Again SMALL compared to what you had but I was like oh poor Tina. This is HORRIBLE.


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## Tihannah

DanteDressageNerd said:


> lol I know you would, you told me I was crazy I think when I suggested an ottb lol a long time ago :lol: but it all works out the way it should right?
> 
> He looks super  you should be really pleased, he looks like he's coming along and being a super baby!
> 
> Hope your back is feeling better! I had a small taste of your pain, I tweaked my SI and I was in tears anytime I moved. Again SMALL compared to what you had but I was like oh poor Tina. This is HORRIBLE.


I just love their personalities. I've had a Belgiulm-Paint cross, Friesian, and a WB, but he is by far my favorite personality. 

SI sounds painful! So glad better.


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## PoptartShop

North is looking so good! He was probably like umm, I need my rest, I'm just a baby! :lol: LOL. 

So happy Helen is so helpful & you have her. He really is looking so good, & I am so glad he's doing well with the groundwork. You two are on the right track!


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## KigerQueen

So glad things are looking better! If still put the other "trainer" on blast. I have had that happen to my mare 2 FLIPPING times! I mean each time I was only at a place for 2 months. Poor Forest. Maybe see if you can lease him out to be a companion horse or a therapy horse (ground and grooming only). 

Raindrop therapy... You mean leaving him out in the rain to rot? Ugh im so livid right now.


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## Tihannah

Haven't done much with North this week. We did one roundpen session on Monday(?) I think, but that's pretty much it. Yesterday I just hand grazed him and watched one of the girls ride before turning him out. He really needs to be in a regular work program. He's getting so fat and lazy! Lol. Helen should be riding him again this week.

Forrest is getting his last dose of Oroquin-10 today. He looks better every day, but still lacking a lot of muscle. Tomorrow, I start adding the powder medicine to his feed. I need to look again and see what it is, but I keep forgetting. I'm kinda on the fence as to what to do with him fitness wise. His weight is looking a lot better and he looks a lot happier. I don't know if I should start some groundwork or lunging with him to help bring some of his strength back? Or just wait a few more weeks to give the EPM treatment more time.

Anyhow, here is a small clip of North's schooling lesson from last week. I HATE my voice, it's kinda deep and mannish, lol, but it's unedited because I wanted to include our discussion while she is riding - what she's feeling and what not. This was his first ride in 3 weeks and I thought he did really well considering that and the fact he is so green. I think he will just continue to get better with each ride. Helen forgot her boots and wore leggings that day, so she'd probably kill me for posting. Lol.


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## seabiscuit91

He's so lovely!

He just looks to willing, and what a great natural rhythm for a 3yo!


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## Tihannah

Forrest got his last dose of the Oroquin today and I decided to put him on the lunge to see how he was moving. Watching him go reminded me why I fell in love with this horse and why I tried so hard to make him right. He still is a lovely mover. And I honestly can't say if the EPM treatment has done anything because I haven't done anything with him since he's come back, except feed and groom him, but he definitely did NOT look like a horse with EPM on the lunge. His movement was so fluid and balanced and he instantly knew his job and what was expected of him, and didn't object to anything. 

But again, he confirmed my suspicions about his treatment when he was with them. Forrest has ALWAYS been the easiest going horse who takes everything in stride. I've ridden him with a drone overhead, during fireworks, thunder, gun shots. He doesn't bat an eye. In the pasture, all the horses could be riled up and galloping about, and Forrest would just look to see what was going on, and then go back to grazing. Sometimes he MAY trot around a bit, but quickly lost interest. 

Tonight he was trotting on the lunge and a young horse at least 50 yards in a neighboring pasture started galloping. Forrest freaked out and started bucking and cantering on the lunge. I instantly brought him back and into me and his nostrils were flaring and panting as he watched the other horse with wide eyes. I soothed and patted him and told him he was okay. He was home now and had nothing to worry about and he started to relax. Inside? I was on FIRE!! Clearly, he was traumatized by the abuse he endured from other horses during his time there. What I saw tonight was a horse that was scared and instantly felt like he needed to protect himself from the galloping horse, even though he was behind a fence and more than 50 yards away. :-( I was enraged. How many bite marks, scars, and kicks would it have taken before they thought it might be a good idea to move him?? When he was seriously injured or dead?? I hate that I trusted those people and I hate that he paid the price for my ignorance.

I got a few seconds of video. It's not great since it's hard to lunge and hold the phone, but you can see how much better he looks, how well he's moving, and the outburst at the end when the other horse started galloping. My poor guy. I just don't know if I can trust sending him to anyone else again...


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## lostastirrup

That is just super super sad. Poor guy. 
There has to be a job for him doing something where he can be an equine good citizen. It's hard to look at him and go "nope" he's just too nice.


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## DanteDressageNerd

God poor Forrest. It angers me for you that they treated him with so much neglect because they couldn't turn the profit on him that they expected :-( people suck. In the horse world it is hit or miss. You meet the best and the worst and it's always the horses that pay :-( psychological trauma is one of the things that ANGERS me the most when it comes to horses. I've rehabbed so many horses from people being emotionally and psychologically abusive to horses and it's the one thing they hang onto for life most of the time. You can help but there is always residual. Forrest reminds me so much of Frankie's mom, Gracie. She was really sweet and the people who had her fried her brain. 

I agree with Helen on North. He's just figuring out the contact and how to carry himself. Babies and green horses usually get behind when working out contact and also because they don't have the strength to carry themselves yet. I'd much rather see a horse get behind but stay deep in their outline, over the back and fluid than hollow but nose in front. Helen's doing a great job with North. He's reaching and taking the contact, the rest will come. It takes time. It also will help with developing North that he's built on the bit, with all the horse's you've had that are so tricky in the contact. I think this will be SO much more rewarding to work with. When they're built on the bit I think it's easy for them to come behind but it's something easily fixed. I wouldn't worry about it.


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## egrogan

lostastirrup said:


> That is just super super sad. Poor guy.
> There has to be a job for him doing something where he can be an equine good citizen. It's hard to look at him and go "nope" he's just too nice.



Is there a 4-H program where he could be used in showmanship or halter type classes? Or in-hand trail classes? That probably doesn't get you out of being responsible for board on 2 horses, but it might help with your time if there were a couple of kids who would keep him groomed up and his brain engaged by working with him on the ground. 

I don't blame you about being worried about letting him go to someone else, I think I'd have those fears too.


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## Tihannah

egrogan said:


> Is there a 4-H program where he could be used in showmanship or halter type classes? Or in-hand trail classes? That probably doesn't get you out of being responsible for board on 2 horses, but it might help with your time if there were a couple of kids who would keep him groomed up and his brain engaged by working with him on the ground.
> 
> I don't blame you about being worried about letting him go to someone else, I think I'd have those fears too.


There has been another name mentioned to me 2-3 times by a few people. She also runs a therapy program local to the area and has a reputation for taking exceptional care of the horses. A couple people close to me have vouched for her. Right now I guess I am just going to play it by ear and focus on getting him healthy and strong again and then I will re-evaluate where his future lies and my options. I'm just feeling so guarded about him now and want to keep him safe for as long as I can.


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## PoptartShop

Poor Forrest. :sad: Ugh, still angers me that these people did that to him. With your help & reassurance, I know he will be back to how he used to be, in time. You can tell he has been through a lot. It's a shame.

I don't blame you for being guarded. I would be too. He's your baby, & after what happened I know it will not be easy to let other people care for him/take him on. I agree with your plan, re-evaluate once he is back up to speed & healthy again. He is already doing much better. I know it's hard seeing how he's changed, you can tell he is traumatized from those people...makes me livid.
He is looking better though & his movement too.

North is probably enjoying his little time off. :lol: LOL! Such a baby! Promise has also been sitting a bit this week, it's rained almost every day & I don't have an indoor, so can't do too much. :sad: North looks SO good!!! Helen is really doing lovely with him, and so are you. 
He is trying to figure out the contact, I agree. Promise is still trying to figure it out too at times. I have to work on lowering her head right now, I am definitely going to use a tie-down like you did with North. For him being green, he looks pretty darn good already.

LOL, I hate hearing my voice in recordings too. :lol: I always think I sound like a man. 

So proud of you guys  And Forrest is extremely lucky to have you. He knows you love him. <3


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## Tihannah

PoptartShop said:


> Poor Forrest. :sad: Ugh, still angers me that these people did that to him. With your help & reassurance, I know he will be back to how he used to be, in time. You can tell he has been through a lot. It's a shame.
> 
> I don't blame you for being guarded. I would be too. He's your baby, & after what happened I know it will not be easy to let other people care for him/take him on. I agree with your plan, re-evaluate once he is back up to speed & healthy again. He is already doing much better. I know it's hard seeing how he's changed, you can tell he is traumatized from those people...makes me livid.
> He is looking better though & his movement too.
> 
> North is probably enjoying his little time off. :lol: LOL! Such a baby! Promise has also been sitting a bit this week, it's rained almost every day & I don't have an indoor, so can't do too much. :sad: North looks SO good!!! Helen is really doing lovely with him, and so are you.
> He is trying to figure out the contact, I agree. Promise is still trying to figure it out too at times. I have to work on lowering her head right now, I am definitely going to use a tie-down like you did with North. For him being green, he looks pretty darn good already.
> 
> LOL, I hate hearing my voice in recordings too. :lol: I always think I sound like a man.
> 
> So proud of you guys  And Forrest is extremely lucky to have you. He knows you love him. <3


Thanks, Allison! I know it's going to take some time, but I just want to see Forrest happy and settled again. 

NO on the tie down! Lol. I think that's a term western riders use? I used side reins on him. You keep them loose enough that they can still lift their heads, but it encourages them to stretch down and work over their back and get comfortable with contact. The side reins give a more consistent contact than your hands and allows them to figure out where they're comfortable and get used to the idea. It's not so much about the head, and more about them using their backs. When they lift their backs and come through from behind, the head just naturally drops, if that makes sense. They can be very helpful, but just make sure you get someone to help you set it up before trying, and put it on real loose to gage her reaction.


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## carshon

That video of Forrest just makes me sad and angry. I second what others have said. They thought they lucked into a pot of gold and when he was everything you said they threw him to the side. I just want to love him and tell him the world is not full of horrible people


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## PoptartShop

Oh yes, I meant SIDE REINS!**************** LOL that's what I meant!!! :rofl: You can tell I am tired today haha. Not tie-down! :lol: 

Yeah I am going to put it on real loose, so she can get a feel for it first.  Definitely.


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## KigerQueen

On the therapy program. You can LEASE him to her as in a full lease. You still own him and have say in his care and have right to see him and what not, they just house him and pay for his care. Just a thought. That way if anything seams amiss you can just cancle the lease and take him back and same if he dose not work out.


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## Tihannah

Well...North is officially going through his toddler testing phase. He's not being worked consistently. I've kinda just resigned to letting him be a baby and only working him 2-3 times a week for short sessions. Helen is supposed to ride him twice a week, but plans, weather, schedules tend to get in the way, so he wasn't ridden at all last week.

Yesterday, I decided to lunge both he and Forrest. My guy was with me, so he helped with Forrest. I think Forrest is the only horse he's comfortable handling. I put North in the roundpen and worked with Forrest first. He's looking great. Not really dragging his hind feet anymore and I actually got him attempting to stretch on left lead and we were only working in a halter. Like most horses, he's different on each side. On the left side, he's kinda slower in his gait, but more willing to stretch. On the right, he has more impulsion, but was not keen on stretching. I think as he gets stronger, it will get better. Overall, I was very happy with what I saw, and I think in a couple weeks, I will see how he feels in the saddle. Right now, our focus is weight and strength gaining. But his coat is shiny again and he looks happy again.

North, on the other hand, has become quite the little brat. I'm starting to be able to read him and see when he's about to pull a stunt. All he cares about is eating right now and is pretty resistant to any kind of work. I've also spoiled him and let him get away too much, and starting to see the residual from it. I put him on the lunge in a rope halter. In a regular halter, he tends to ignore me, and just try to graze. He will ignore me and the lunge whip till I apply extra pressure and then act out because he is being forced to work. Mind you, we are doing nothing more than walk and trot at this point still.

Anyhow, yesterday I was working him on the lunge and he kept trying to stop and graze, so I had to be more firm. I saw the look on his face that he was about to cut up and he started fast trotting, then cantering and yanking back. I tried to correct him and the halter pulled right off his head. We had been working for maybe 5 minutes. :-/ He went running to the gate that leads back to the barn, but of course it was closed, so he just stood there grazing till I came to get him. I got the halter back on and tightened it and then took him back to where we were lunging. He almost instantly tried it again, but the halter was on good this time, and I gave him 3 sharp corrections. His expression changed, he sighed, and went to work. We did walk/trot both directions and ended with praise. 

This behavior has been going on the past couple weeks and mostly with just me. I mentioned before that I had one of the barn girls helping me with roundpen work and she stays after him when he tries to refuse. By day 3 of her helping us, he was going lovely and consistently in the roundpen and staying to the outside. The next time I put him in the roundpen by myself, I got the old behavior. Refusing to keep going, cutting through the middle, and just trying to turn in and come to me so he didn't have to work. So that's when I realized that I wasn't being firm enough with him. I'm not asking anything difficult of him, and his refusals are simply coming from the fact that he would rather graze. So I am going to continue more groundwork with him and re-establishing myself as the leader. After my injury, I know I can't get in the saddle when I don't have his full respect on the ground.

Anyhow, here is some lunge video of Forrest from yesterday. Today I think we will add some trot poles. I love this old guy and am happy he is back here with me.


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## seabiscuit91

Forrest is such a stunning mover. It's sad to think that over his life if he'd been in the right hands what he could of been like. 

I can definitely relate to letting things slide with babies. We learn the hard way you just can't. 
I too can get way to lax about little things, then little things add up and I'm like why is my horse a jerk? Oh because I let him be one haha. 

It's pretty quick to come back you just have to be super focused for your next few training sessions, I find even the little things work, like as soon as I get him from the field, he's on my time, so if he's trying to step to close, I correct and back him up a step, every time, so he gets the idea. 
It's a lot of little annoying things that can be SO easy to overlook. I'm definitely a 'spoiler' for sure!


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## PoptartShop

Forrest looks very good. He is such a nice mover. He will definitely improve on that one side once he gets more strength. So happy he is making such good progress.  He looks so healthy now too. Very happy for you guys.

Oh, I totally get it about North. I have the same issues with Promise at times. I've had to really really do more groundwork because at one point, she tried to be the 'alpha' & I could tell she was like, 'I don't have to listen to you, nope'. It's hard not to spoil/baby these guys since they're so young. We know they are learning & we let them slide sometimes. I know! Just have to keep at it, & work through it. I've learned if we let them slide, they will just keep doing whatever they wanna do. LOL, & throwing tantrums...yup, Promise has those days sometimes. Or they do stuff to try to get out of work. :icon_rolleyes: Such babies I swear!
The rope halter REALLY helps. I give Promise a nice tug if she misbehaves, it gets the message across. Gives them a bit more pressure.

Glad you kept at it, keep it up!  He's just being a testy toddler! :lol: They sure keeps us on our toes!


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## carshon

Forrest is a stunning mover. And not to be mean but I had to laugh about your North issue with the halter. Babies are fun and frustrating and Toddlers they will be!


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## egrogan

It's amazing how much better he looks already. I love his gentle attempt at putting his nose down in all that beautiful green grass. _Awwwww mom...just a quick bite please?!_


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## Tihannah

So much going on this week that I haven't had time to update!

Had a better lunge session with North after the tantrum episode. I put him in full tack - saddle, bride and side reins, but kept his rope halter on and attached the lunge rope to it so I wouldn't interfere with the bit connection. It's amazing really how much easier it is to correct him in the rope halter. He made a couple futile attempts at cutting up, got a firm correction, and then resigned to working. It was a good session. Helen rode him Monday and Tuesday this week. 

Monday started out kinda rough. The grass was kinda slick from rain earlier that day and he tripped and got ridiculously offended by it, as if Helen caused it. Started cantering, throwing his head, and a couple baby bucks, though I think most of it was just because he didn't want to work. Helen has an incredible seat though and smiled the whole time she rode him through it. They did transitions, lots of change in direction, trot poles, and even a couple baby jumps ( 12-18 inches). Helen has quickly picked up that when he is resistant or distracted, she has to keep his mind busy to keep him on board. So she gave him no time to THINK about objecting. Cross this, pop over that, change directions, and before you knew it, she had his full attention trying to figure out what was coming next. Lol.

She also started some real canter work with him. He's incredibly unbalanced in the canter, so when they started, he looked like a maniac running/jump into the canter and just all over the place. He didn't like cantering because he's so unbalanced, and would be resistant when she asked and then have a baby tantrum once he picked it up. I honestly don't think it's something I could've handled on my own. His trot and canter looked like they were coming from 2 completely different horses. Lol. But after only a couple rides of Helen working with him, he's gotten more confident and is learning how to properly use and balance himself without having a fit first. Again, it's amazing how quickly he picks things up.

Tuesday's ride was total opposite of Monday's ride. No objecting, no tantrums, just trying to figure things out. He had some lovely moments at the canter and was much more consistent in the bridle. Helen had another lesson off property that day, so she had to start riding him before I got there after work. I caught maybe the last 10 minutes of it and was really surprised to see the difference. Video below is from that ride. Something else she mentioned to me is that she discovered that he likes sitting trot better. She waits towards the end of the ride when he's nice and warmed up, but she said it helps him with his balance and being more consistent, but it is something she will do sparingly because he's so young.






And a few more things...

1. I FINALLY got cleared to ride from my doctor yesterday! Woohoo! Ended up doing a mini lesson with Helen after work. She rode him first for about 15 minutes, and then I hopped on for another 10-15 while she instructed. She talked me through his quirks, and the kinda contact he needs-steady but soft. I felt so rusty and uncoordinated, but it felt really good to be back in the saddle again.

2. North pulled a shoe Monday AGAIN, and then pulled the other Wednesday before the farrier showed up! That was it. I'd had enough and told the farrier I was leaving him barefoot. He was apprehensive and said he didn't know how he would do, but I've been religiously applying keratex to get them stronger and he showed no signs of soreness at all when Helen rode him Tuesday. Yesterday I applied Venice Turpentine before we rode and he had no issues at all. Didn't even step funny when we went over the gravel coming out of the barn. So hopefully, this is a done deal and we won't have to go back to shoes again.

3. I'm listing my saddle in hopes of buying Helen's old one. She bought it for her younger mare in 2017, but she bulked up only 8 months later and it no longer fit her. It's in Demo condition and my saddle simply doesn't fit North at all. Even with halfpad and thick shims, he still has large dry spots behind the withers. I also noticed him seeming a little back sore after being ridden in it. He's been ridden in Helen's old saddle 3 times and has shown no back soreness at all and not a dry spot on him when you pull it off. I also think my saddle is the culprit behind pitching me forward. I rode in her saddle last night and WHOA, what a difference. My legs just seem to fall into the correct position and as long as I remembered to sit up and put my shoulders back, my position looked lovely. I was almost shocked when I saw the video of myself riding. 

Anyhow, next week I will be in Vegas again all week for work, so Helen is going to continue working with him. Hopefully she can get 3 rides in on him while I'm gone. She said she enjoys working with him so much, that she wishes she could stop teaching and just have a barn full of Norths to train and ride everyday.


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## PoptartShop

The rope halter is KEY, I swear! & you can give them more pressure without yanking the bit, it's great. Helen is great. That's true, you always have to keep them occupied & focused. Or else they will continue to throw tantrums & do what they want. :lol: Or, try to get out of work! It's so true! Gotta keep their mind busy.
That is great that she is also helping him carry himself better at the canter. It'll take some time, but he is already improving, such a good boy! He is a quick learner!!  Love the video. His canter looks good! You can tell he is trying.
Once he figures out oh, throwing a tantrum won't get me outta work...he will give you his all, which is what it sounds like he is totally doing. I love it! & he's very smart!

YAY for being cleared to ride!!! I am so glad you got to get back in the saddle yesterday. Even though it was for a short time, it's something & still counts. You will get right back to it in no time.

I think him being barefoot will be fine. Promise is also barefoot. If he is surefooted which it sounds like he is, no need for the shoes. Promise is only ouchy on rocks (like on a trail, if it's rocky) other than that...I'd just throw trail boots on her when we go on rocky trails, which is rare anyway. 

No need for shoes, plus it saves you money & you don't have to get to the barn & check if they still have them on. :rofl: So that is good!!

I hope your saddle sells & it's great that Helen's fits you & North better. It makes all the difference when you are comfortable, and same with North. The fact that she loves working with him makes it even better, I think we all need a Helen in our lives! :lol:


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## Tihannah

Was a really nice pony weekend. Had a lesson on North Saturday. Wasn't great. My confidence is broken since the accident. :-( And it's not so much a fear of him acting out or being bad, but just the realization that my position sucks, my core is weak at best, and my seat is questionable. He's a baby and there are always going to be things that spook or startle him. It's totally normal and never bothered me before. But since my fall, I've lost faith in my ability to ride through these things. Throughout the lesson, instead of focusing on what Helen was telling me, I was focusing on whether or not he might spook or have a tantrum I couldn't handle. He needs a rider that can redirect his brain to focus, and I'm currently batting zero in the category.

So today, I tried again. Helen and 2 other girls rode with us, but Helen had to cut her ride short to leave and I was left with the two younger girls. I stayed on him for another 10-15 minutes, but we literally did nothing except plod around and watch the others ride. I couldn't shake my nerves, so I dismounted and walked him back to the barn. I HATE that I feel this way and it's a first for me. It was a beautiful day, and since I'm going to Vegas next week, I decided to get my tried and true trusted mount. I got Forrest. 

The 2 other girls brought their horses back as I was hurrying to tack him up and volunteered to switch out their mounts for the two barn ponies and ride with me. We decided to go on a hack and Forrest was fantastic. I'd kinda forgotten how BIG his strides were, but it took no time to adjust. We rode around the outside of the property and then off property across the road down through another area and back and it was so much fun. I've never taken Forrest on a real hack, but he handled it like a pro. I even got some decent halts out of him and we found a comfy place in rein contact that he was happy with and he actually looked like a normal horse. Lol. We stayed at the walk, of course, and I think it was great for him to just be able to relax and go with someone on his back. I wish someone had been able to get a picture of the 3 of us - a 17.1 Dutch WB trail riding with two 13h+ ponies! Lol.

If there's NOTHING else I can say about Forrest, I can say that he is a horse that I've never felt unsafe on. We came across so many different things on our hack and he just took them all in stride. I was able to work on my seat and position and feel how it affected his way of going without worry that I was doing something wrong or confusing him. It was nice and I think he enjoyed our little outing.  I think I'm going to continue using Forrest to work on me and rebuild my confidence. Helen said I could also get some rides in on Winnie (her older mare) while she continues to work with North. I have a lot to improve on and I want to feel more confident with North. Besides, he has a lot of growing to do, so I've got plenty time to focus on me.

Prior to riding either horse, I asked a friend to put Forrest on the lunge so I could get a little video of him going. It's been 30 days since he came home and I could not be happier with how far he's come in such a short time!


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## Golden Horse

Tihannah said:


> Was a really nice pony weekend. Had a lesson on North Saturday. Wasn't great. My confidence is broken since the accident. :-( And it's not so much a fear of him acting out or being bad, but just the realization that my position sucks, my core is weak at best, and my seat is questionable. He's a baby and there are always going to be things that spook or startle him. It's totally normal and never bothered me before. But since my fall, I've lost faith in my ability to ride through these things. Throughout the lesson, instead of focusing on what Helen was telling me, I was focusing on whether or not he might spook or have a tantrum I couldn't handle. He needs a rider that can redirect his brain to focus, and I'm currently batting zero in the category.



OK, take a deep breath and give yourself some slack.....while of course everything could use work, we all could, you are not a bad rider, you do not suck...so take that off the table.


Next, another deep breath and remember the story that green on green can equal black and blue, so neither of you are bright green, but he is greener than you are used to. He is though a really good boy, there is nothing bad or sneaky about him is there? You have a good plan going forward, pootle about on Forrest, let him just hold himself how he likes, and enjoy yourselves. 

If it takes a bunch of 20 minute walks on North, that's what you will do...LOL my coach had me walk for a month on Fergie when I lost it....I was begging to do more in the end.


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## Tihannah

Golden Horse said:


> OK, take a deep breath and give yourself some slack.....while of course everything could use work, we all could, you are not a bad rider, you do not suck...so take that off the table.
> 
> 
> Next, another deep breath and remember the story that green on green can equal black and blue, so neither of you are bright green, but he is greener than you are used to. He is though a really good boy, there is nothing bad or sneaky about him is there? You have a good plan going forward, pootle about on Forrest, let him just hold himself how he likes, and enjoy yourselves.
> 
> If it takes a bunch of 20 minute walks on North, that's what you will do...LOL my coach had me walk for a month on Fergie when I lost it....I was begging to do more in the end.


Hahaha, that's what Helen said. "If you want to spend the next two months just walking, then that's great!" And no, North is not at all bad or sneaky and I hate that I rode him for a month, no problem, and now I feel so unsure of myself.

I hate getting old and feeling so easily breakable. Lol. But I guess everything does happen for a reason and why Forrest ended up back with me. I NEED to ride for my own sanity and he will help get me through this period, I guess.


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## Golden Horse

Tihannah said:


> Hahaha, that's what Helen said. "If you want to spend the next two months just walking, then that's great!" And no, North is not at all bad or sneaky and I hate that I rode him for a month, no problem, and now I feel so unsure of myself.
> 
> I hate getting old and feeling so easily breakable. Lol. But I guess everything does happen for a reason and why Forrest ended up back with me. I NEED to ride for my own sanity and he will help get me through this period, I guess.



Bwahahaha, you aren't even approaching old yet......but it's true, there comes a time when we go ouch, rather than bounce..

I do believe that things often happen for a reason, maybe you and Forrest need each other for a little bit. Back to North, maybe buy, or rig up one of these https://www.jefferspet.com/products...848e9fa2600f000001c5/56c499fff2131d693c0000d1 I am so making I grab strap for me when I come back after my surgery. The trainer at the barn has one on his western saddle, always....he uses it for youngsters, two reasons, he wants to improve his chances of staying put if the kaka hits the fan, and second he wants to make sure that in staying on, he does not catch them in the mouth..


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## KigerQueen

Second the saddle oh crap handle. I have one on my saddle too. Odie is an air head and spaces out. Issue is when he time back in with a foot or spur in his side he spooks and bolts a few feet before he realizes what happened... That strap is a life saver. You can buy a wither strap or use bailing twine or rope.


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## DanteDressageNerd

Golden Horse said:


> OK, take a deep breath and give yourself some slack.....while of course everything could use work, we all could, you are not a bad rider, you do not suck...so take that off the table.
> 
> 
> Next, another deep breath and remember the story that green on green can equal black and blue, so neither of you are bright green, but he is greener than you are used to. He is though a really good boy, there is nothing bad or sneaky about him is there? You have a good plan going forward, pootle about on Forrest, let him just hold himself how he likes, and enjoy yourselves.
> 
> If it takes a bunch of 20 minute walks on North, that's what you will do...LOL my coach had me walk for a month on Fergie when I lost it....I was begging to do more in the end.


^this is very good.

You do NOT suck and you are NOT a bad rider, you are doing amazing!! You started riding late and have only ridden a few years. We all have these falls, the only trouble is we dont bounce like we used to. 

Im glad you have Forrest to gain your confidence on and other riding options besides North while you gain your confidence back. You can do this!


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## PoptartShop

I actually feel the EXACT SAME WAY you do right now. Since I am only riding Promise, my position hasn't really improved at all. It's pretty rusty (also haven't taken a lesson in over a year) & just not that good, because when I ride her, I can't really focus on 'myself'. I have to focus on her moreso, & worry about what she is doing, etc. Which, in the end, doesn't really help my position at all!

Forrest is a GREAT horse to better your position on. He is older, & more experienced. Less to worry about when you in the saddle on him. I think that is great you didn't give up & decided to tack him up to finish out your day. I know how you feel. Glad you had a good hack out with him, it sounds super relaxing.  Just what you needed! 

But, you don't suck! At all! It's NOT easy riding these babies, & we don't really get to focus on ourselves as much when we ride them, whereas if we are on an older, or more experienced horse, we focus LESS on what THEY are doing, & more on ourselves.

I am actually taking a lesson next weekend, & I can't wait...my new trainer told me, 'you need to ride one of my super broke horses. You haven't been able to focus on YOU, in the saddle. Always focusing/worrying about what your 5yr old is doing.' It'll be good for me to be able to focus on ME & not so much the horse for once, LOL! :lol:

Definitely take a ride on Helen's mare too. It'll help you a lot.  I am very proud of you!!! You got this!! & once you and North figure each other out more, you will be a champ at riding him. He is also learning how to carry himself! So much to learn!! It's not easy riding these kids, like I said. :lol: 

They say walking on the horse is actually the hardest. It's true. Nothing wrong with it at all. I have mostly been strictly walking Promise lately on our rides, because well, my position needs work & she also does! :lol:


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## carshon

Agree with what everyone else has said. You are a great rider - you had a fall and it was painful and scary - all sane people would look back and be a little apprehensive.

And I am so glad Forrest is feeling good enough for a hack. He looks great in that video.

As for straps - western riders call them Night Latches - when my daughter first started riding English we purchased a saddle carrier strap and just left it clipped to her saddle so if she needed some extra balance or umph she could grab that. It really helped her when going up steep hills. The straps are under $15 and just snap onto the dees of the saddle.


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## ShirtHotTeez

@Tihannah that is the most relaxing lunging video i have ever seen!! I love the property what a beautiful place and I can see why Forest is so special, he is lovely.


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## Tihannah

Last week in Vegas was an absolute nightmare. My entire airline experience was almost surreal. 

Going:
1. 1st flight delayed by an hour
2. Reached Dallas and had to circle airport for 45 minutes before landing due to planes being backed up.
3. Landed, but had to sit on tarmac for an hour and a half due to lightning
4. Missed connecting flight as a result
5. Rebooked for different flight and ended up sitting on the tarmac for another hour and a half waiting to take off.
6. Was supposed to reach Vegas at 5:30pm, got there after 10pm!

Coming back:
1. Connecting flight in Dallas was canceled. Nothing else going out, so had to stay overnight.
2. Airline says there are no direct flights for the following day, so I had to book a flight for another airport 1.5 hrs from home.
3. Arrive at airport at 9am for 11am flight. At 10:15, they announce the flight is delayed for 2 hours
4. As I'm sitting there peeved, I hear announcement over loudspeaker that a flight going STRAIGHT to my hometown is doing final boarding!! WTF?!?! I grab my bags and haul a** to the gate and BEG counter person to put me on the flight. He gets me on the flight.
5. We end up sitting on the tarmac for 2 HOURS due to weather. Pilot announces we have to return to gate due to regulations.
6. We get off plane for 30 minutes and are then allowed to board again. Pilot says they're remapping our flight due to weather. We have to wait for instructions and refueling. We end up sitting ANOTHER 2 hours.
7. Pilot says we're finally ready to go, punches in our new route, and computer informs him he's timed out!! We have to get off the plane again!!! And HOPE another pilot shows up.
8. New pilot shows up, everyone cheers, then they announce that the co-pilot may have timed out too. People are flipping out by now.
9. Co-pilot turns out okay. Should've gotten home Friday by 10pm. Got home Saturday around 7pm.

I'm never going to Vegas again!!

On a brighter note, I have to give MANY THANKS to @Golden Horse and everyone else that suggested the grab strap. I ordered one off Amazon for $10 while I was in Vegas, so it was waiting for me when I got back. I had a lesson with Helen today. You guys WOULD NOT believe what a game changer this thing was!! Even Helen was like "OMG, I'm making everyone of my students use one of these!!" Lol.

I didn't really use it at first. It was more or less just a security blanket, as suggested. North was really good and trying really hard, but as we went through the lesson, I could see that I was frustrating him. Helen has been doing the majority of the rides on him, and of course, she is a much more steady rider, both in seat and hands. I'm still working on my terrible habit of leaning forward, so I'd get him in a good trot and Helen would say, "Lean back!" and when I leaned back, he'd slow to a walk. North almost demands a steady, soft contact, but will still toss his head around until he finds it.

If you watch Helen ride him, it looks like she's using a lot of hands (she kind of is), but she explained to me that she's adjusting to his head movement to keep the contact consistent. I'm simply not quick enough for that and end up pulling on his mouth instead. So between my hands and my inconsistent position, we really struggled and I could tell North was getting frustrated with it, so Helen decided to put us on the lunge. She had me first just hold the strap with reins in hand and trot around in 2 pt. He stayed round almost the entire time. Then she had me post holding the strap, and it felt so weird, I had to ask her if I was doing it right. She said, "YES! You're sitting back! THIS is how you're supposed to post!" LOL. I swear it felt totally foreign to me.

Then I saw her head cock to the side as she watched us go and said, "I'm taking you off the lunge, and now I want you to do the same thing, but keep your outside hand with the rein on the strap and only take your inside hand off if you need to open it and bend or guide him."

It was like night and day. Working on the lunge helped me find my seat and position. I got a steady, forward trot no problem. Holding the strap with my outside hand gave him a steady connection to where he could find where he needed to be for softness. Because I wasn't focusing on my hands, I was better able to use my seat and legs to guide him. Helen was shouting, "OMG!! This looks AMAZING!!" She would just instruct me to push him forward more or sit back a little more, and VOILA! He was soft and round and I wasn't thinking about what MIGHT happen that could cause me to come off. We did have one small spook, but it didn't even phase me and we kept right on trotting, and she said I handled it perfectly.

He did so well, she hopped on at the end and cantered him in both directions. It still needs a lot of work, but it's definitely gotten better and he knows the canter cue now and doesn't explode when asked. He's just not yet balanced enough for me to try it. I was really proud of us today though and feel like I finally made some progress on my position and working through it. Below are some stills from today.


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## Golden Horse

So glad you found it useful, it’s a great tool, like so many things, for the right horse rider combination.

After a nightmare journey like that, you needed a great breakthrough day, making me smile a big smile here


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## Tazzie

Yay!! I'm so excited to hear your break through!! WOOHOO! I'm a HUGE believer in the grab strap, and intend to buy another two more (one for Izzie's second saddle, and one for Diego's saddle). I tend to grab that instead of mane when stuff goes sideways, but I plan to use it to help Nick learn his balance and position when he's able to ride again!

Those pictures look fantastic too! The happiness is radiating from those pictures!


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## DanteDressageNerd

You two look great together and YES the grab strap is for more than just grabbing when scared. I use it when Wonder pulls because he can be really unsteady in the contact and pull your hands EVERYWHERE, he doesn't do it in the double because he respects it but in the snaffle he's like hmm I want to avoid using my whole back and fight in my body, I know you're weaker than me so I'm just going to move the contact so you can't get me as through. The grab strap is so useful because then he cant move the contact or move me. Very useful tool!


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## PoptartShop

Hmmm, I may need to get one of those grab straps myself!!! I definitely could use it sometimes when I am struggling with Promise. The boyfriend has Amazon Prime...hmmm... :lol: Good to know!! It is definitely a good learning tool. 

I have been told I should get one in the past. It looks like it made a huge difference for you, & that is awesome!!!   YAY!!! You guys look really good! I love hearing stories like this, you guys are making such great progress. Isn't it crazy how like, the smallest things can make such big differences?! 

Love it!! Excited to hear more! :smile:


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## Tihannah

Haven't done a whole lot with the boys this week besides one short lunge lesson on North and he was such a good boy! Saddle fitter came yesterday and turns out Helen's saddle was not as good a fit as we thought. :-( So now I am on a feverish hunt for a saddle since I've already sold my Custom! 

North is simply a monster! Lol. The med-wide tree is apparently too small and he needs a MW+, preferably Wide tree since he has so much growing left to do. He also needs full front gussets to open up the saddle for his huge shoulders. I apparently need something with 17.5/18" seat and short or minimal blocks for my long legs. Helen's saddle was only a 17" and the fitter said was too small for me. She was very thorough through and spent over 2 hours with us going over everything. She said North is unevenly built from right to left side and we will need to do more work on the left lead to get him evened out and stronger on his right side. She said his tracing were not at all typical of most TB's she's done. Lol. She couldn't believe how big and stocky he was and said his shoulders were just ridiculous! Lol.

She brought several saddles with her from various brands, but none worked for us, so she's coming back in 3 weeks with another load to try. The only saddle that really fit him well was Helen's brand new custom Black Country Ricochet Jump saddle. It had all the special quirks that he needs, so she said we need to find one similar but possibly a little wider. Her mare has big shoulders as well.

I posted a ton of ISO's in various tack groups and have gotten a lot of responses, but few were what I was looking for. A BC rep based in England messaged me and said I could get a new one for my budget and have it shipped over. Apparently, it's a lot cheaper to buy them over there since that's where the factories are located. Hopefully, I can find something soon!


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## Golden Horse

Good luck with the saddle fitting game, always fun.


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## Tihannah

Sent a deposit on custom saddle for North tonight. The order will go in tomorrow and it should be completed in 3 weeks and shipped immediately. Shipping should only be a few days. I got an incredible deal (I still can't believe it) that made it well worth foregoing the endless search for a used saddle that I have to hope will work. I ordered the saddle recommended by the fitter and provided all of her specs and tracings. It will also give him room to grow, since I ordered a wide tree. I'm pretty excited and can't wait to see it. I've never even owned a new car, lol, so this one will be like an early Christmas for North and I both!


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## lostastirrup

Tihannah said:


> Sent a deposit on custom saddle for North tonight. The order will go in tomorrow and it should be completed in 3 weeks and shipped immediately. Shipping should only be a few days. I got an incredible deal (I still can't believe it) that made it well worth foregoing the endless search for a used saddle that I have to hope will work. I ordered the saddle recommended by the fitter and provided all of her specs and tracings. It will also give him room to grow, since I ordered a wide tree. I'm pretty excited and can't wait to see it. I've never even owned a new car, lol, so this one will be like an early Christmas for North and I both! <img style="max-width:100%;" src="http://www.horseforum.com/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" />




Oooh! What did you buy? Dressage saddle? Brand? 

You'll have to post pictures so we can ogle over new leather.


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## PoptartShop

That is SO exciting!!!!    Especially since you got an amazing deal. The next few weeks need to go by fast. I think it will be perfect for you and North, since it will be custom-made, & it's good you got the fitter out to figure out what he needs exactly.

I am so excited for you. And it will be BRAND new! Custom for you and North!! So awesome. :smile: It definitely feels like Christmas came early!


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## Tihannah

lostastirrup said:


> Oooh! What did you buy? Dressage saddle? Brand?
> 
> You'll have to post pictures so we can ogle over new leather.


I got a Black Country Eden dressage saddle.

Between the fitter and the rep, I think it's a great choice for us. Fitter said that I probably needed an 18" seat, but after seeing pics and video of us in my 17.5" Custom Icon and Helen's 17" Equipe, the rep didn't think I needed a larger seat at all. She said I need a longer flap.

So we got the 17.5" seat with 17" flap for me (16" is standard), front gussets and drop panels for North, and white piping just because I love the piping so much and it was only $70 to add it. What I loved most I think is that there were no extra charges for the longer flap, front gussets, or drop panel. All are included in base price. The piping was the only added charge. Can't wait till it gets here!


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## jaydee

The Black Country saddles are lovely so I'm sure you'll be pleased with it. 
I think maybe the British have a longer history of building saddles for bigger horses because of the long time popularity of the Irish Draught and Irish Draught x TB for hunting, showjumping and hunter classes which are nothing like the US hunter classes.
I've been buying more horsey things direct from the UK just lately because the exchange rate's good and it is cheaper than buying them from a US 'middle man'
Black Country saddles is based in spitting distance of where I lived for a long time as a child/teen and moved back there for some years as a young adult when London life lost its appeal!


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## lostastirrup

I will admit to looking up your saddle and drooling. But only a little bit.


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## Tihannah

jaydee said:


> The Black Country saddles are lovely so I'm sure you'll be pleased with it.
> I think maybe the British have a longer history of building saddles for bigger horses because of the long time popularity of the Irish Draught and Irish Draught x TB for hunting, showjumping and hunter classes which are nothing like the US hunter classes.
> I've been buying more horsey things direct from the UK just lately because the exchange rate's good and it is cheaper than buying them from a US 'middle man'
> Black Country saddles is based in spitting distance of where I lived for a long time as a child/teen and moved back there for some years as a young adult when London life lost its appeal!


Helen has two of them and they are gorgeous and such lovely quality. I can't wait to smell the new leather! Lol.


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## egrogan

So fun! Fizz's saddle is a custom Detante also made in England. The wait was torture :wink: Mine actually got held up in US customs on the way here- part of a big order coming to our fitter- so it tacked on a few extra days. But the wait was really worth it! 

I had to laugh at the customizations for you as they were the exact opposite of the customizations I needed. I had to have a short flap -15" instead of the standard 16". It makes such a difference, I can barely put my ankle bone on a horse when sitting in a standard flap. 

Hope you love it once it's here!


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## Tihannah

Okay...so just had my saddle high totally blown by the fitter when I told her I ordered the saddle AND specs she recommended!

I'm kinda baffled right now other than the fact that I guess she was wanting me to buy a saddle through her as a middle man??

I literally ordered the exact model, tree size, flaps, and panels SHE told me. The differences were the 17.5" inch seat instead of the 18" because the rep looked at my pics in both the 17" Equipe and my 17.5" Icon and said the 18" would be too big for me. That I needed a longer flap, not a bigger seat. The fitter was REALLY annoyed by that and said she hoped I was getting velcro blocks?? Both Helen and the BC rep asked why I would need velcro blocks. I honestly don't know. She initially said I needed a curvier tree, but both the UK Rep, Helen's BC rep, and 3 people from BC that make the saddles all disagreed and said North needed a classic tree. That he didn't have a curvy back, he was just croup high and downhill right now.

She seriously sounded MAD when I told her I ordered the saddle and that she was still researching trying to figure out what would work for us. Umm...hello??? You told me what I needed before you even left. I don't have a saddle to ride in right now?? The other person at my barn saw her back in July, and is STILL waiting on a saddle she ordered through her. Her daughter has been riding bareback for 3 months! 

I've ridden in Black Country saddles, I love the quality and feel in these saddles, and they provide all of the things my horse needs for a good fit. If I can get a brand new custom saddle within my budget in 3 weeks time, why would I wait and keep looking for a decent used one I can only hope will work?

I guess it was silly of me to think she would be happy that I was able to get a saddle for us within my budget and it not be from her. :-/


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## carshon

that is so sad. And of course if you need help later she may be reluctant to do so since you did not order from her


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## Tihannah

Again, not much to report this week. North hasn't been ridden at all. Did one 10 min lunge session and that was it. I may ride him tomorrow if the weather is nice, but I've kinda just resorted to keeping him on an easy schedule and letting him be a baby and continue to grow. I also don't want to ride him in saddles that I know aren't a good fit. The fitter said Helen's jump saddle was fine, but it's a brand new custom $4k saddle, so I really hate asking to use it, even though she said I could. 

Helen really wants us to do a schooling show, Intro A & B, in December. Just to get him out and get some experience. They're both just walk/trot tests, but I'd rather she ride him, lol. I'd love to get him off property, but not sure how he'd do in a show setting and how well I'd handle it.

The other exciting news is that John is coming at the end of January!! For those that don't know, John is my absolute favorite clinician. He used to come several times a year, but just after one year of marriage, his sweet wife was diagnosed with Leukemia, and he simply wouldn't go too far from home. But it seems she's been doing really well, and he finally decided it was okay to come. We are ecstatic and as soon as the clinic was posted, we had 16 riders wanting in. We adore him not just because he's a great trainer and an amazing rider, but because he teaches a 9yr old on a 28yr old pony with as much enthusiasm as he teaches an upper level rider on a 4th level WB. He simply loves teaching and doesn't mind answering questions and hanging out with everyone. I usually have a chair right next to his at every clinic, just so I can absorb everything he's saying, and ask questions when they're taking a walk break. No two lessons are the same, and he loves to explain why this exercise applies to one horse and a different exercise for another horse, even though they appear to be battling the same issue.

I'm SUPER excited for him to meet North. He's taught me on Tess and Forrest, so I'm anxious to get his evaluation on North and I as a team. I learn so much every time he comes, I just wish he could come more often!


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## Tihannah

I did a very short ride on North on Sunday. The weather was perfect and I just couldn't waste it, but I was also alone, so I was a bit nervous and apprehensive. The BO was there working around property, and one of the other boarders was towards the front messing with her horses, so I decided to just take a chance. I figured at least if something happened, I only needed to shout loud enough. Lol.

North was super good though. Temps the past week have been lows in the high 40s-50s and highs in the mid 70s to low 80s, so we've only been bringing the horses in to feed and turning them right back out to enjoy the weather. This seems to have had a good impact on North as he has been much more quiet when being handled and tacked up. It seems that when he gets too much stall time, he gets anxious and can't be still, and just wants to get into everything.

Last night after work, everyone was at the barn, so I rushed there to try and get a ride in before the sun set. North was quiet and sweet for tacking up again and when I got in the saddle, he was perfect. We worked on our walk halts, walk to trot, and trot to walk transitions. He was just listening so well and really paying attention, so I decided to run through dressage Intro Test B. I have never had an easier first run-through on any of my previous horses. He's just SO smart and learns so quickly that all the things we've been working on (sporadically!) just fell into place as we went through the test. 

I remember practicing left lead 20m circles with Tess over and over and over again! It was our nemesis and it seemed no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't keep her from falling out or losing rhythm. Heck, I could barely keep her trotting up center line! Lol. With North it felt so different. He'd kinda be like, "Wha? What are we doing? Oh, okay, got it." Lol. He's SO freakin cute, I can't even take it sometimes. And the praise... I truly wish you guys were there and could see how he responds to praise. We'd work on bending and softening and he'd get it just right, so I'd pat him and tell him what a good boy he was and then he'd mark it, and I wouldn't have to do anything except keep myself steady and he'd just continue on staying soft and round.

On Sunday, his halts were slow to respond, but as soon as he did, I gave him big rubs and praise. Last night, they were like instant, and I didn't have to touch the reins to get it. Just sit up and back in my seat and give a little squeeze in my thighs. It's all these little things that make me so excited to see how far we can go.

On another note, I decided enough was enough. My weight has been spiraling outta control. My guy is a terrible enabler and in the past year or so has really gotten me into some terrible eating habits. He's 6'4 and needs almost 3,000 calories a day to maintain. He also does almost all the cooking and loves to bake sweets at least once or twice a week. I get off work at 5pm, head to the barn, and then don't get home till 8pm most nights, where there is usually a high carb, high fat dinner and dessert waiting for me. Lol.

So anyhow, the other day, with the announcement of John coming, I decided it was time to end the downhill turn. I started the Keto diet, which I've read a lot of good things about and decided it would be something easy for me to maintain. My goal is to lose at least 20lbs by the clinic at the end of January. Going to be super hard with Thanksgiving and Christmas coming, but I guess I will allows those 2 cheat days, and I should be okay. I just don't wanna look or feel like this anymore. 

It's been 5 days and I'm down 3lbs already. The strange thing is that I don't even crave all those terrible foods I used to eat and crave constantly. Last night I came home and he made me stuffed peppers and salad for dinner and he and the kids had fried chicken. I didn't want the chicken at all. My stuffed pepper and salad were so yummy to me and I'm already starting to feel better. I only hope I can stay in this mindset and maintain it to my goal weight. I think it will not only be better for me, but North as well. I would love to give him less weight to carry! lol.


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## PoptartShop

I think a schooling show would be good for North. It wouldn't be too much pressure, & it would get him out a bit. It would be a good experience.  See how you feel, maybe he can ride him for the first show you go to, & if you go to a second show you can ride him? Just to see how he does.
I'm so excited for John to finally come by too. YAY!  It's gonna be amazing, especially now that you have North! He sounds amazing, I'm sure he's gonna love North! That is great.

So nice that you had those two good rides on him, even though you were alone (which I understand is new for you with him). Hopefully you can continue to have more great rides like that by yourself.  It'll build your confidence too. I love that he is so smart & a quick learner. That is awesome!!! I think he is a lot like Promise, especially with the praise...I can tell he probably LOVES praise. Like oh I'm doing a good job Mom? Is this what you want me to do? Oh, ok!! LOL. So darn cute. <3 I am so excited for you guys, you are going to go far!

As for the diet, same here...I need to lose about 10-15lbs before my cruise in February. Ugh. My boyfriend is an enabler too. Especially since I hate to cook & he does most of the cooking. We eat healthy at times, but not all the time lol. We just had pizza last night. *facepalm*

I wanna try that. 3lbs already?! Gosh! I gain so fast, it's so annoying. I'd love to lose that quick lol.


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## Tihannah

PoptartShop said:


> I think a schooling show would be good for North. It wouldn't be too much pressure, & it would get him out a bit. It would be a good experience.  See how you feel, maybe he can ride him for the first show you go to, & if you go to a second show you can ride him? Just to see how he does.
> I'm so excited for John to finally come by too. YAY!  It's gonna be amazing, especially now that you have North! He sounds amazing, I'm sure he's gonna love North! That is great.
> 
> So nice that you had those two good rides on him, even though you were alone (which I understand is new for you with him). Hopefully you can continue to have more great rides like that by yourself.  It'll build your confidence too. I love that he is so smart & a quick learner. That is awesome!!! I think he is a lot like Promise, especially with the praise...I can tell he probably LOVES praise. Like oh I'm doing a good job Mom? Is this what you want me to do? Oh, ok!! LOL. So darn cute. <3 I am so excited for you guys, you are going to go far!
> 
> As for the diet, same here...I need to lose about 10-15lbs before my cruise in February. Ugh. My boyfriend is an enabler too. Especially since I hate to cook & he does most of the cooking. We eat healthy at times, but not all the time lol. We just had pizza last night. *facepalm*
> 
> I wanna try that. 3lbs already?! Gosh! I gain so fast, it's so annoying. I'd love to lose that quick lol.


The last time I was at this weight was in 2007. We did a 17 week Weight Watchers program at work where we had to weigh in every Thursday. I ended up losing 30lbs on it and kept it off till about 2014 when my guy moved in and then I started gaining slowly. I've gained 20lbs since we've been together and he keeps telling me I'm perfect and don't need to lose an ounce and "Here, I got pizza! Or fried chicken! Or made pasta!" lol. 
AND baked a butter pecan cake with cream cheese icing! 

It tastes good, but at the then end of the day I feel fat and sluggish and don't want to do anything except lay around if Im not at the barn. Now I'm starting to feel better and am waking up ready to go. I've even been doing small workouts in the morning before work. I think the hardest thing for me is just getting in the mindset and staying determined and not giving in to my weakness for carbs and sweets.


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## Tihannah

He's giving me butterflies again...

Rides have been short, 20 minutes tops, so I rode again tonight. He's been rebuilding my confidence in him and my riding. The nervousness is slipping away to glee. He's just been so incredibly good. Calm, easy going, and eager to please. Helen was finishing up working her younger mare tonight and we sat watching nearby. A couple times they had tough turns and she came cantering right by us with only a couple feet between us. North stood quietly as they went by, only perking his ears in curiosity.

We rode in Helen's jump saddle, and at first, I was a bit nervous at not having the support of a dressage saddle. He put my fears to rest. He rode perfectly and objected to nothing, and the girls marveled at how lovely he was going.

And just now, as I sit here typing this, I almost wonder if it was the alfalfa?? I have been giving him alfalfa hay since he arrived, but ran out when I went to Vegas. Bought some alfalfa/orchard mix from Tractor Supply as well as grass hay and was giving him one flake of the alfalfa mix and 2 flakes of the grass hay. But since the weather's been nice, and he's been out to pasture, he's only been getting a little grass hay when he comes in to eat. Helen told me he probably didn't need the alfalfa since he was getting chubby anyways. But previously, his behavior had been getting increasingly worse. The baby tantrums, not wanting to work, and trying to run back to the barn - even on the lunge. Just being a brat about everything and spooking at nothing sometimes. But today when I was tacking up, one of the girls even remarked that she couldn't believe how quiet he was being. He's usually fidgeting with everything he can get close to. Not the past few days. He's just stood quietly as I groomed and tacked him up. So yea...I wonder...

Whatever it is, I love it, and the idea of taking him to a few schooling shows seems more and more appealing...


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## KigerQueen

All mine act like foola when on alfalfa so I'm betting on that. Rocket, even at age 33, is not aloud alfalfa. Its like crack!


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## seabiscuit91

Alfalfa is super rich, i definitely wouldn't feed it unless a horse is a hard does/in heavy work, otherwise they're just getting extra energy they don't need! 

Nutrition is definitely key to behavior, it can take a while to find out what feeds work/don't but you definitely get a massive difference!

I can't feed oaten hay, bc the sugar sends my guy absolutely bonkers, like he will bolt and jump out of his skin, it's crazy what a change it can make!


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## Tihannah

seabiscuit91 said:


> Alfalfa is super rich, i definitely wouldn't feed it unless a horse is a hard does/in heavy work, otherwise they're just getting extra energy they don't need!
> 
> Nutrition is definitely key to behavior, it can take a while to find out what feeds work/don't but you definitely get a massive difference!
> 
> I can't feed oaten hay, bc the sugar sends my guy absolutely bonkers, like he will bolt and jump out of his skin, it's crazy what a change it can make!


I honestly don't know why I didn't realize it sooner. And we were getting some really good alfalfa. The stuff from Tractor supply isn't that great. Lol. And its mixed with orchard. But I definitely like this North better! He's just so mellow now.

On a side note... I got the email today. My saddle is done!! I can't believe it! Lol. They said 3 weeks, and its been just over a week! It should be shipped out to me on Monday. I can't wait to see it and sit it on him!


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## PoptartShop

SO excited for you to get your saddle!!    I can't wait to see it when it arrives!


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## Tihannah

Farrier came out this morning and said he was surprisingly impressed with how good North's feet looked and how well he's transitioned to barefoot and so quickly. He said I did a good job starting him on the keratex and then transitioning to venice turpentine along with a hoof supplement. 

He was really apprehensive when I told him I wanted to just let him go barefoot. North was pulling shoes every other week and he was afraid that he would be lame and his feet would just crumble without the shoes, but in fact, he now says they look better and stronger than when he had the shoes on! Lol. He said it's not something you see too often with TB's, but it really depends on the horse and the diet and care on what's gonna happen when you pull the shoes.

Forrest got a trim too, but his feet have always been good and easy peasy.

Speaking of...

I'm really on the fence about him again. Managing the expense of caring for 2 horses at a boarding barn is really starting to weigh on me. He's at a good weight now and doing really well. I just wish I could find a good home for him where he would be loved. I honestly think he would enjoy being a trail mount after taking him on a short hack that day, and he doesn't spook at anything. I've put the word out with a few horse friends to see if they knew or could recommend someone. I just want a soft spot for him to land and have the easy life without someone trying to make him a sport horse again. :-(


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## lostastirrup

I wonder if he'd be a happy "pleasure horse" for someone who wanted to ambitiously canter trails and jump the occasional log. There are people who that is their #1 thing. And he has a to die for canter and low jumps seem to calm him.


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## Tihannah

lostastirrup said:


> I wonder if he'd be a happy "pleasure horse" for someone who wanted to ambitiously canter trails and jump the occasional log. There are people who that is their #1 thing. And he has a to die for canter and low jumps seem to calm him.


I think he would be happy as a pleasure horse.


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## PoptartShop

Glad the farrier visit went well, gosh that's so true. Most TB's require shoes. Very few can go barefoot.
Mine is barefoot too & it's very shocking!:lol: No need for shoes.
North will be just fine barefoot...sounds like it's working out much better for him, that's awesome. Plus it'll save you money...& you won't have to stress over him throwing shoes! Yay!

As for Forrest, I know it has to be hard. I hope they can recommend someone. It'd be nice if he had a relaxing environment, nothing like the last one. He will make a great pleasure horse too, I agree. He's a good horse.  Crossing my fingers that someone gives you some direction for him.


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## LoriF

Tihannah said:


> I think he would be happy as a pleasure horse.


I tried to tell you that!! 

I never want to have my horses land in a bad place so I don't trade them up. If I only had one right now, I would take Forest as a pleasure riding horse in a heartbeat if you let me have him.

What's going on with the EPM stuff. Does he even have it? If Forest is healthy, I would market him as a pleasure riding horse and tell people his issues. I wouldn't give him away. Not all, but most people see a free horse as a throw a way unless it's to someone you know well and they know Forest well.


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## Tihannah

LoriF said:


> I tried to tell you that!!
> 
> I never want to have my horses land in a bad place so I don't trade them up. If I only had one right now, I would take Forest as a pleasure riding horse in a heartbeat if you let me have him.
> 
> What's going on with the EPM stuff. Does he even have it? If Forest is healthy, I would market him as a pleasure riding horse and tell people his issues. I wouldn't give him away. Not all, but most people see a free horse as a throw a way unless it's to someone you know well and they know Forest well.


I honestly don't know if he ever really had EPM. :-/ I seriously have not seen a significant change or difference in him, except for the weight gain, but I've also only ridden him once since he's been back with me. I've lunged him a few times though. It's just hard trying to find the time for both at a self care barn.

I just want him to go to someone that's gonna love him and take care of him. He's not a high maintenance horse and has the easiest temperament. It's just at his age and ability, I'm afraid he will end up as someone's throwaway horse and spend the rest of days dying in the back of someone's pasture.


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## LoriF

Tihannah said:


> I honestly don't know if he ever really had EPM. :-/ I seriously have not seen a significant change or difference in him, except for the weight gain, but I've also only ridden him once since he's been back with me. I've lunged him a few times though. It's just hard trying to find the time for both at a self care barn.
> 
> I just want him to go to someone that's gonna love him and take care of him. He's not a high maintenance horse and has the easiest temperament. It's just at his age and ability, I'm afraid he will end up as someone's throwaway horse and spend the rest of days dying in the back of someone's pasture.


I think he would be happy as someones pet and pleasure horse. 

I have to defend myself a little bit. I have three and understand the time constraint of having that many. I didn't ride hardly at all last winter and don't usually ride much in the summer but my girls are hardly dying in the back of the pasture. lol. I've just started riding Laela again, Novia is not ready for riding, so that leaves Star. I bought her for my nieces to ride with me and now they are living their own lives and don't have much time so she sits more than she should. She's still happy and well taken care of. I would love to find a nice home for her as well, but until her special person shows up, she's taken care of. It would be cool if I could find someone to just ride her with me. She could use the exercise.


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## Tihannah

On another note...

I cantered North for the first time today!! We had a lesson with Helen, and she made it painfully clear that I wasn't riding him forward enough, hence our inconsistency in the contact. We did some exercises to get him bending better and softer in the contact, and then she made me really get him forward in front of the leg. At first, it felt like we were going to fast, but once I found my seat, I was like, "Oh! This IS better!" Lol. She made me ignore his head until I got him forward and then ask for the bend. He softened so easy and before I knew it, he was fully on the bit and bending and it felt incredible.

And then Helen said she wanted me to canter, and I was like NO WAY! Lol. She's been the only one to canter him so far, and there's been times when I wondered how the heck she kept her seat. She told me to just keep him in a straight line, cause he's still too unbalanced in the turns. I chickened out on the first attempt right before he picked up the canter and brought him back. Lol. Helen and another barn friend were yelling, "You can do this! It's not that bad! Just DO IT!" I was SOO nervous, but I did it. I asked for the canter and he picked it up instantly. We got 3 strides and he felt me lean back and dropped back to trot. I immediately thought, "That wasn't bad at all!" Lol.
I decided to do it again. This time we went 6 or 7 strides and he was perfect and I was ecstatic. He has a really nice, easy to sit canter, and he he didn't try to invert or run with me at all.

And finally, it looks like we are going to do our very first schooling show on Dec 1-2nd. I'm really excited and nervous at the same time. Its a 2 day show and Helen wants us to do a combined test the first day - Intro A and ground poles, an then do Intro B dressage only the second day. We're going to try and take North to my old barn to school before hand. There's a bunch of us going so it should be really fun. I just hope he's as good as he's been at home lately. I am seriously LOVIN "no alfalfa" North! Lol.


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## PoptartShop

That is lovely! The fact that he softened so easily & gave into the contact is GREAT!! I know that had to feel good!  That's great he went back into a trot from you leaning back into your seat. Yes!! Progress! I would be nervous too since Helen is the only one who really was cantering him, but now you can do it too! Even if it was 6-7 strides, that is awesome. & nothing better than a smooth, easy to sit canter.  It will only get better too.

The schooling show will be FUN! It won't be too much pressure & he will get a feel for it. I think he will do just fine, plus he trusts you a lot already.

Yes, no alfalfa must be making such a huge difference! :lol: Thank god!!! So happy to hear all the progress you guys are making. Such a great team. <3


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## Tihannah

*Saddle Pics!*

She just sent me pics of the saddle! It's shipping out tomorrow! OMG...I LOVE it! She said the pics don't do it justice. I can't wait to sit it on him!!


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## PoptartShop

EEEEK!!!! It is BEAUTIFUL! Lovelovelove it.   So exciting. It is gorgeous. I'm sure it's even more beautiful in person!


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## Tihannah

First of all, I hate the **** time change! I don't get off till 5pm everyday, so by the time I get off, it's already dark outside. In addition, the past 2 weeks have been rain almost every day followed by cold temps and gusty winds. I did 2 short rides on North last weekend. He did well, but we're still working on getting him off his inside shoulder on left lead. Right lead is easy peasy.

Though I almost had to go to blows with UPS and their incompetence, my saddle finally arrived yesterday and I LOVE it!! It fits North SO good and gives him plenty of shoulder room. I rode in it tonight for the first time. It was dark out, of course, so we just did a little bit using the light from the barn. He was the most consistent he's been with me in the bridle - ever! Again, I can't believe how much the grab strap has helped us. North is big on consistent, soft contact, but I struggled with trying to find a good balance. The grab strap has really helped me with that, and now I can achieve those things without holding onto it. On top of that, the nervousness I felt just last month riding him, has completely left me. I feel at home with him again and he's been trying so hard to do well. My BO is currently working on getting lights up for us in the riding areas, so hopefully, I'll be able to do more than just weekend rides with him soon.

Monday I officially sent in our entry for our first schooling show. I'm super excited and I think North will do well. There's a bunch of us going and we're getting saddle pads and shirts embroidered with Helen's business logo. It should be really fun and I'm eager to get North out in a show environment and see how he handles it.

Last night I stopped by my old barn to pick up time sheets to do payroll. I still handle all the office stuff for my old trainer and use the money to cover board at the new place. Anyhow, a friend of mine is selling her 19yr old Hanoverian cross for $3k and my old trainer brings this up. The friend says that he was once 3rd level, but she has had him for several years and hasn't really done anything with him except for a few clinics and maybe a couple schooling shows. I've ridden him a couple times and it's a serious workout just to keep him forward. Anyhow, she mentions how great he would've been for me back before I bought Forrest and I could've been doing 3rd level by now. Then she says maybe I can still get him. I say, "I already have 2 horses." And SHE says, "Well, what about selling North and buying him?" Seriously??? At first, I was just taken aback that she would even suggest something like that, but just said, "No, North is amazing." Then as I drove off, I just started getting more and more angry. She really does hate TB's!! But seriously, why would I sell my young, healthy, easy keeper with a great brain and high trainability for another senior, out of shape because he did 3rd level 6 or 7 years ago?? Because I need 2 senior horses like I need a hole in the head. The fact that she would even suggest that really rubbed me the wrong way, and the fact that she just continues to dismiss my horse as worthless because he's a TB just ****es me off! She's never even seen him in person! Again, I'm so glad I left there.


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## LoriF

The saddle is beautiful, I bet you were as excited as get out to finally ride in it. 

It sounds like you are so much enjoying the barn and show scene and enjoying North a lot. I wouldn't get mad at your old trainer, that's like drinking a vile of poison and expecting her to suffer for it. Just be glad that you are not having to deal with her now that you are an owner of one of those retched thoroughbreds. She has her head set on what thoroughbreds are like and she's probably feeling bad for you because of that. None of it has anything to do with what you like but she doesn't get that. I'm sure she really is thinking of you when she says these things though. Who knows, maybe she will someday be pleasantly surprised with the two of you. If not, then oh well, too bad for her.


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## Tihannah

LoriF said:


> The saddle is beautiful, I bet you were as excited as get out to finally ride in it.
> 
> It sounds like you are so much enjoying the barn and show scene and enjoying North a lot. I wouldn't get mad at your old trainer, that's like drinking a vile of poison and expecting her to suffer for it. Just be glad that you are not having to deal with her now that you are an owner of one of those retched thoroughbreds. She has her head set on what thoroughbreds are like and she's probably feeling bad for you because of that. None of it has anything to do with what you like but she doesn't get that. I'm sure she really is thinking of you when she says these things though. Who knows, maybe she will someday be pleasantly surprised with the two of you. If not, then oh well, too bad for her.


That's exactly what is it. In her mind, I'm dealing with a crazy, unpredictable, tight-backed horse that won't be good at dressage and I won't be able to advance much on. I am determined to show her just how wrong she is.

On a lighter note, I did pick my outfit for the show! Ordered this polo with Helen's logo. Really liked these breeches with the black full seats. I hate the seat stains you get in white breeches. My helmet is the One K in Navy blue, and the zipper on my half chaps recently broke, so I'm seriously contemplating these boots by Ariat with the navy at the top. North will be snazzy in a black bonnet and new white saddle pad with black piping.  I haven't done a show in ages and am overly excited. Lol


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## LoriF

Tihannah said:


> That's exactly what is it. In her mind, I'm dealing with a crazy, unpredictable, tight-backed horse that won't be good at dressage and I won't be able to advance much on. I am determined to show her just how wrong she is.
> 
> On a lighter note, I did pick my outfit for the show! Ordered this polo with Helen's logo. Really liked these breeches with the black full seats. I hate the seat stains you get in white breeches. My helmet is the One K in Navy blue, and the zipper on my half chaps recently broke, so I'm seriously contemplating these boots by Ariat with the navy at the top. North will be snazzy in a black bonnet and new white saddle pad with black piping.  I haven't done a show in ages and am overly excited. Lol


Love this ensemble


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## carshon

I too love the clothes and boots! You two will look Exceptional!


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## Golden Horse

YeH for new saddle, great show clothes and looking forward..


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## NavigatorsMom

I LOVE the show outfit you have put together! Those boots  I'm not in the market for new boots but now I feel like I want to be, haha! You two will look great together and I'm sure you'll do really well too! First shows with a new horse are so fun and exciting!


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## PoptartShop

So happy you finally got your saddle. YAY!!!! UPS...I have no words for them! 

I am extremely happy to hear that your first ride in it went so well. I'm sure North is feeling the huge difference, & he can actually move much better in it & he feels less restricted. After all, it's made FOR him!!!   & you! It will be so much better for you both now! That's good they're gonna put up lights, I know getting outta work when it's pitch black sucks. Tellll me about it! :sad: Such a pain. I LOVE the outfit for the show, too. That's good the breeches have the full black seats. White would get all stained up, no thanks! LOL. :lol: That will look great, & the logos are an awesome idea. I'd be pumped too! You & North will do great at the show. It'll be a fun time & good experience for him.

Those boots are nice too...go for it!!!


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## Tihannah

NavigatorsMom said:


> I LOVE the show outfit you have put together! Those boots  I'm not in the market for new boots but now I feel like I want to be, haha! You two will look great together and I'm sure you'll do really well too! First shows with a new horse are so fun and exciting!


Thanks all! You're gonna make me pull the trigger! Lol. I've been watching the boots for months! Lol. They have great reviews and most have said they're comfy right out the box with no break in time. They're also great for schooling and shows, which I really like. I'm not one that can afford a pair of boots for each, so I think these will give me a good middle ground.


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## tinaev

I just spent an hour reading this entire thread since it has been several months since I've logged in. I seriously commend you for taking Forrest back and caring for him while you decide what his future holds. There are not a lot of people that would do that and he's very lucky to have you. 



The new boy looks great and I love the show outfit you're planning. Best of luck!


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## lostastirrup

LOVE the show outfit! I'm a sucker for kerrits breeches as is, but I love their dark seat design for showing. 

An aquaintance of mine had those boots and really liked them, the only caveat is that they are hard to clean with all the nooks and crannies made by the seams in the leather. I love the blue tops though. Simply stunning. You will have to get someone to take pictures at the show! 

It's a little silly and probably a little inaccurate depending on horse and rider, but I always say I can count on the training I did up until 6mo ago to show through in a show, and anything more recent that is bonus. It makes me little less upset when I blow things we SHOULD know how to do but nerves overcame us and we couldn't.


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## Tihannah

lostastirrup said:


> LOVE the show outfit! I'm a sucker for kerrits breeches as is, but I love their dark seat design for showing.
> 
> An aquaintance of mine had those boots and really liked them, the only caveat is that they are hard to clean with all the nooks and crannies made by the seams in the leather. I love the blue tops though. Simply stunning. You will have to get someone to take pictures at the show!
> 
> It's a little silly and probably a little inaccurate depending on horse and rider, but I always say I can count on the training I did up until 6mo ago to show through in a show, and anything more recent that is bonus. It makes me little less upset when I blow things we SHOULD know how to do but nerves overcame us and we couldn't.


I'm trying to go into this thinking of it as a learning experience for North. Good or bad, I think it will be fun for both of us to get out and get a change of scenery.

We had a lesson with Helen yesterday and got really stuck trying to get him to loosen up, soften and bend on left lead. Like I said before, right lead has always been easy. I tend to give up to quickly when something isn't going a planned and then resort back to what was working, but Helen wouldn't have it. And she took us step by step. 

Forward first! Leave his head alone. Find his rhythm and keep him there. She said, "I dont care if you can't steer or your circles are all over ththe place. Just keep him forward!" Then when we got a good steady rhythm, she had me start asking for the bend. I was getting frustrated at my inability to achieve it more quickly, but Helen praised everything positive we did. We just kept making big circles around her as she talked us through it. Then she said, "He's about to give. Just stay steady and keep pushing him forward and off your inside leg."

And sure enough, he softened and went round. She talked me through keeping my hands steady and pushing him forward. Next thing I knew, he was soft and lovely! It took probably fifteen minutes to get it, but Helen said, "That's okay! He's 3! He's figuring it out." 

We did 3 circles with him soft and round and she declared that this was a good place to end it. I so wanted to keep going, but I knew she was right. He gave us what we asked, and the reward was to end on a good note with lots of praise. It was a great lesson, and hopefully we will get in a few more before the show!


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## PoptartShop

Glad you didn't give up, and Helen got you back into the game! I love how she doesn't allow any of that; she is so helpful and amazing. That's how a trainer should be. & praising the positives, that's how it should be too. That is awesome. YAY! That's progress right there. Just gotta keep at it. She's right, he is only 3 (I know, it's hard to remember that sometimes...even with my 5yr old, sometimes I'm like how come she's not getting this?! Oh...that's why). :lol: So happy to hear you had a great lesson.  Ending on a good note is important. I hope you get in some more before the show too, it will help you a lot!  GO NORTH!!!


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## Tihannah

Had to fly to DC on Sunday for work, and just flew back today. After my last trip, I was really nervous about flying the day before Thanksgiving and making it back on time without any delays or cancellations. Thankfully, the entire trip ran smooth and my plane landed ON TIME at 1pm this afternoon. Got home, dropped my things, and headed straight to the barn! 

There was another young girl and her mom there. Her mare and North share a pasture and she was getting ready to ride, so I asked her to wait for me while I got North tacked up so we could ride together. We decided to ride out in their pasture, and I thought North would be better if I had his buddy out there with us. Boy was I wrong!

The first 20 min or so was a complete mess! Lol. I could not get North to listen or pay attention to save my life! All he cared about was what the mare was doing and trying to follow her around. He was just completely blowing through my aids, distracted, and overall not listening. I'd finally had enough when he threw his shoulder out and almost ran us into the electric fencing. I put him in a halt. Then made him back up. Then made him stand. Then asked for a few strides of trot, before halt, then walk, then halt, then back up, until I had his FULL attention. By then, the girl was done with her ride and took the mare out, and his entire behavior changed. 

We did consistent, on the contact trot-work, changing directions, transitioning from walk to trot and trot to walk, and he was simply lovely and giving me his all. It was like night and day. It felt so nice and consistent, I was tempted to ask for a canter, but Helen wasn't there and I didn't want to push my luck! Lol. We did one run through of each test, Intro A & B, and then I praised him and hopped off. It ended as a fantastic ride, and probably the most consistent I've ever gotten him in the bridle without Helen there. I mean it felt REALLY nice.

So yea, note to self, the warm-up area at the show is likely going to be a HUGE distraction for him. Lol. But what I saw and felt today? Man, I really think we are going to be a great pair in the dressage ring. It's kinda funny because, even though he's so green, he's teaching me to be a better and correct rider. He's teaching me how to work through his quirks and become more confident in myself. He shows SO much potential for dressage, I can hardly believe how easy it is once we get it and find our rhythm. The mechanics and the way dressage SHOULD be ridden, just work with him. He's going against my hands? Leg and he softens. He goes too far above the bit? Leg and he gets back on the bit. He does well? Praise and he gives me more. These things just didn't work with my previous horses. Not my lease or Tess or Forrest. Tess didn't care how much leg you used. She was gonna do as little as possible and fake it till she made it. Haha. With Forrest, leg just meant run and keep going while using any means possible to get around the contact. 

But for the first time, North is showing me how it's SUPPOSED to feel. And I gotta tell you, it feels incredible.


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## Golden Horse

Reading the last part of your post with a big smile on your face, so nice to feel how it is supposed to...kind of hoping that Stella might give me that....because although Fergie gave me glimpses, she would never hold it...I am really hoping that Stella is a little more generous. So I really get that feeling of joy, and waiting to feel it.


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## Tihannah

Golden Horse said:


> Reading the last part of your post with a big smile on your face, so nice to feel how it is supposed to...kind of hoping that Stella might give me that....because although Fergie gave me glimpses, she would never hold it...I am really hoping that Stella is a little more generous. So I really get that feeling of joy, and waiting to feel it.


I know it's generally a bad idea to do a green+green situaion, but starting with a clean slate that has a great temperament and trainability had been worth its weight in gold.

I really need to catch up on that! How is it going with her? Between work and driving 40 min to the barn every day, I don't get much time to keep up on journals. 

Did she do any dressage with the previous owner?


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## Tihannah

Very short clip from last weekend. Will try to get some more from today or tomorrow. Still adjusting to the new saddle. It's not as restrictive or "locked in" as my custom, but it does a heck of a lot more for my position. I just need to get better in my seat and balanced posting. Still, despite my inabilities, he still manages to do well for me. He's so freakin adorable!


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## lostastirrup

Oh he's going so so good for you!!! I've never been a fan of restrictive deep seated saddles.. if it positions you well- the balance will come.


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## Tihannah

Our ride from today. I still struggle with keeping him forward. The kid is terribly lazy, but we're working on it. He was a super good boy though and I'm really happy with our progress thus far. I really feel incredibly lucky to have found him.


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## KigerQueen

you look so happy on him! 3rd times a charm! and sometimes the lazy is good. means they are not trying to explode or run through things. what i like about odie. he would rather not do unnecessary work but i CAN make him forward if i need to. otherwise he is inclined to meander and watch butterflies ****!


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## MistressToMares

I only just caught up with your thread, I think your an amazing horse woman and have such the right natural sense about you that more riders should!

North is the sweetest baby ever and forest is so darling as well! 

I broke my back in 5 places in a riding accident a few years ago so I can relate to the pain! 

I’m glad I stumbled upon your thread and will be in the audience watching, reading and supporting your journey with your boys! 

Also BRST OF LUCK AT THE SHOW! I’ll be riding in a clinic that day!


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## Tihannah

MistressToMares said:


> I only just caught up with your thread, I think your an amazing horse woman and have such the right natural sense about you that more riders should!
> 
> North is the sweetest baby ever and forest is so darling as well!
> 
> I broke my back in 5 places in a riding accident a few years ago so I can relate to the pain!
> 
> I’m glad I stumbled upon your thread and will be in the audience watching, reading and supporting your journey with your boys!
> 
> Also BRST OF LUCK AT THE SHOW! I’ll be riding in a clinic that day!


I don't know about the amazing horsewoman, lol, but thank you so much! These incredible animals have really changed my whole outlook on life. 

Have a great ride at the clinic! I honestly enjoy clinics more than shows! Lol.


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## PoptartShop

Ugh, you guys look great!  Such a good baby! I am so impressed with your progress too. That new saddle is helping also, which is great. Super excited for your show next weekend!


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## Tihannah

Helen's been outta town for the Thanksgiving holiday and tonight we had a lesson. She was amazed at the difference since our last lesson. I couldn't even explain what happened last week, except that I threw all my nervousness and uncertainty out the window, put my big girl panties on, and RODE my horse! Lol. She just kept saying, "This is amazing. He looks amazing!"

We rode in a different pasture tonight, and I don't know if it was the cooler temps or just being in a new riding area, but forward was no problem. He was a bit ADD looking around and losing focus, so Helen told me that whenever I lost his attention, to just tap him behind my leg with the whip. Worked like a charm. He'd start looking around, I'd give a slight tap, and he'd come right back to me like, "Oh! I forgot what we were doing." Lol. He's so freakin cute!

We worked on keeping him straight and not popping his shoulder out in the turns and walk-trot-halt transitions. His up transitions were lovely, but we need a bit more practice on the down transitions. Part of it was just keeping him focused and listening. The toddler attention span in him is very evident, but by the end of the lesson, it got better and better.

I'm so giddy about this horse. Riding him and watching his progression... I can't even explain the joy it brings me. It's what I've struggled for for so long with all my previous horses, and with him, it's so easy in comparison. I don't think I could've found a better match.

We'll get in another ride tomorrow. Chiro will be out Thursday to adjust a bunch of our horses before the show. Friday will be a lot of show prep, and then Saturday we'll head out around 8am. We don't actually ride till Sunday since we're only doing dressage, but a bunch of the others are riding Saturday because they're doing CT and XC. We're going to watch them ride and then get some schooling in. I ride first in both my classes on Sunday. Eek! Should be a fun weekend!


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## Tazzie

I'm glad Helen was proud of your improvement too! I know the toddler attention span all too well :lol: but he's such a good sport! I love it! I can hardly wait to hear how the show goes!! I'm so excited you decided to do it  it'll be a great experience for him!


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## PoptartShop

So glad Helen was impressed with you guys and your progress! That is great! OMG, tell me about it! The toddler attention span. :lol: It can be a pain, but cute at the same time LOL. Just gotta refocus them sometimes. Then they go oh, ok, I got it!

I'm extra excited to hear about the show. It's gonna be so fun, & I am sure North will do lovely. You guys truly are the perfect match <3 So glad you have each other.


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## Tihannah

I honestly don't kid myself in any way about North. I literally hit the jackpot with him. And most of the knowledgeable people I know were right to think I was crazy for getting a 3yr old OTTB when I've only been "seriously" riding for 3.5 years. But this kid, man, I adore everything about him. His temperament and sweet personality, willingness and brain, ON TOP of a great conformation? It's almost surreal.

A friend of mine sent me a video yesterday. She has several horses and has been riding for about 15 yrs. She purchased a WB baby a few years ago from a known breeder with great lines with the intention of this being her next upper level dressage competition horse. I believe she bought her as a yearling. The baby turned 4 this year and she had her started with professionals. First a Natural Horsemanship trainer, then a dressage trainer. In a lesson with the dressage trainer, the youngster bucked her off and broke her hand. She then sent her to a reining trainer for 2 or 3 months. She said to re-establish a good foundation. The video she sent yesterday was her riding the young mare in a roundpen in a western saddle with the dressage trainer. Before it even happened, I could see the mare was about to cut up. She was fussing and refusing to move forward - lots of head tossing. Next thing you know, she went straight up and my friend came off, and as soon as she hit the ground, the mare kicked out at her. Barely missed her, but my friend threw her foot up to block the kick and then quickly rolled away. The fall broke her humerus. The dressage trainer got on, she reared again, but didn't get her off. She's now putting the mare up for sale. Apparently, she's reared with every trainer she's sent her to. This horse is not willing in any shape or form and makes it known.

Watching that video and knowing how much time and training she's invested in that horse reminds me of how lucky I am with North. For him to be coming along so nicely with just me (basically a noob) and Helen working with him. He truly is a special guy and I feel like the sky's the limit with us.


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## PoptartShop

That really is the best feeling ever. <3 You truly have met your match. People are ALWAYS gonna have something to say, or call you crazy, etc. They're just jealous because you and North are coming along so nicely & you proved them wrong.  Plus, he's only 3 & look at him!

When I got Promise, people called me crazy & stupid for getting a 5yr old OTTB. But, best thing I've ever done. I've ridden many horses older than her, & never had the same feeling. I'm teaching her things & she is teaching me things. 

OTTBs get a bad rep, it's a shame. Then when you put young in front of it, people go ARE YOU NUTS?!!!!!!!!!!! :icon_rolleyes: 
Like ummm, not every OTTB is the same, crazy horse. My old lease horse was a 26yr old OTTB & he was insane, honestly...Promise is only 5 & nothing like him. Everyone wants to judge but you just have to laugh at them, and smile because your horse is beating the stereotype  All that matters.

You have to go for it & take risks in life. Getting North was the best thing you ever could've done.  You guys are amazing & already going so far. I know you loved Tess, but the bond you have with North is totally different and so much better. You guys are making so much progress in such a short time. I love it! 

Your friend's story, wow. That is horrible...but I know a lot of people think young horses are the end of the world, & they're babies so they're so horrible...but NOT ALWAYS THE CASE, clearly! :lol: 

The sky really is the limit for you guys. As it should be! Meant to be.


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## lostastirrup

Tihannah said:


> I honestly don't kid myself in any way about North. I literally hit the jackpot with him. And most of the knowledgeable people I know were right to think I was crazy for getting a 3yr old OTTB when I've only been "seriously" riding for 3.5 years. But this kid, man, I adore everything about him. His temperament and sweet personality, willingness and brain, ON TOP of a great conformation? It's almost surreal.
> 
> A friend of mine sent me a video yesterday. She has several horses and has been riding for about 15 yrs. She purchased a WB baby a few years ago from a known breeder with great lines with the intention of this being her next upper level dressage competition horse. I believe she bought her as a yearling. The baby turned 4 this year and she had her started with professionals. First a Natural Horsemanship trainer, then a dressage trainer. In a lesson with the dressage trainer, the youngster bucked her off and broke her hand. She then sent her to a reining trainer for 2 or 3 months. She said to re-establish a good foundation. The video she sent yesterday was her riding the young mare in a roundpen in a western saddle with the dressage trainer. Before it even happened, I could see the mare was about to cut up. She was fussing and refusing to move forward - lots of head tossing. Next thing you know, she went straight up and my friend came off, and as soon as she hit the ground, the mare kicked out at her. Barely missed her, but my friend threw her foot up to block the kick and then quickly rolled away. The fall broke her humerus. The dressage trainer got on, she reared again, but didn't get her off. She's now putting the mare up for sale. Apparently, she's reared with every trainer she's sent her to. This horse is not willing in any shape or form and makes it known.
> 
> Watching that video and knowing how much time and training she's invested in that horse reminds me of how lucky I am with North. For him to be coming along so nicely with just me (basically a noob) and Helen working with him. He truly is a special guy and I feel like the sky's the limit with us.




If I was a little closer (and I had the cash and time) I'd inquire about her. She sounds fun.


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## Tihannah

lostastirrup said:


> If I was a little closer (and I had the cash and time) I'd inquire about her. She sounds fun.


And you would probably do GREAT with her! Lol. 

Though she's been into riding a long time, my friend is not a "great" rider. I would put her around Training Level in dressage, though she said she did hunters for about 10 years. The mare is a chestnut mare ;-) and she's been to about 3 different trainers since April of this year in 3 different disciplines. My guess is she's likely fed up, lol, but too much horse for both me and her!


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## PoptartShop

A chestnut mare?! LOL it sounds like she fits _that_ stereotype. :rofl: Jk, but gosh, I hope someone can help her. 3 trainers since April is crazy!

It does sound like too much horse lol.


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## lostastirrup

Tihannah said:


> And you would probably do GREAT with her! Lol.
> 
> Though she's been into riding a long time, my friend is not a "great" rider. I would put her around Training Level in dressage, though she said she did hunters for about 10 years. The mare is a chestnut mare ;-) and she's been to about 3 different trainers since April of this year in 3 different disciplines. My guess is she's likely fed up, lol, but too much horse for both me and her!


I don't know where I'd be ranked as a rider, but as young as she is with a rearing problem already, there's probably more under the hood. I'd turn her out with the broodmares for six months at least and let her live for a year, bring her back in the summer and ride big country on her, not worry about frames or dressage until she's found her legs and remembered how to work. Horses aren't meant to run in circles. They need to hack out and travel for their sanity. I'm lucky because where I am at Ive got the place and the time to do that sort of thing. 

The other thing about a horse that rears is that you need to be an adrenaline junkie and fairly athletic. Because it can be scary and you have to be okay with riding through it without holding tension in your body or pulling on the reins. Lots of people either fixate on it and the horse gets worse or they get scared and don't push the envelope and the horse gets worse. It's kinda a happy medium of ignoring it and letting there be natural consequences. But in truth it's a habit that sticks around, and you mostly work to raise the threshold of work before it kicks in.


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## Tihannah

lostastirrup said:


> I don't know where I'd be ranked as a rider, but as young as she is with a rearing problem already, there's probably more under the hood. I'd turn her out with the broodmares for six months at least and let her live for a year, bring her back in the summer and ride big country on her, not worry about frames or dressage until she's found her legs and remembered how to work. Horses aren't meant to run in circles. They need to hack out and travel for their sanity. I'm lucky because where I am at Ive got the place and the time to do that sort of thing.
> 
> The other thing about a horse that rears is that you need to be an adrenaline junkie and fairly athletic. Because it can be scary and you have to be okay with riding through it without holding tension in your body or pulling on the reins. Lots of people either fixate on it and the horse gets worse or they get scared and don't push the envelope and the horse gets worse. It's kinda a happy medium of ignoring it and letting there be natural consequences. But in truth it's a habit that sticks around, and you mostly work to raise the threshold of work before it kicks in.


She honestly hadn't even gotten to the point of serious work- frame or anything. The owner has only ridden her 3 times with a trainer and 2 of those resulted in broken bones. First trainer was the horsemanship guy and he did groundwork only for about 2 months 3-4 times a week. Then just a few sessions in the saddle in the roundpen before it ended. Then I believe the dressage trainer was doing 2 rides a week for about a month or 2. Then she went to the reiner for I want to say 2 months. But in between those and prior - lots of turnout with other horses in big lush pastures with run in stalls.

I dont know how to send the video on here, but between the trainers, she probably hates the roundpen. Lol. I saw her with the NH guy and she did really well with him. But from then till now, she seems to hate the work.


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## lostastirrup

The poor dear. Well young, Chestnut and a mare does seem to be the recipe for dramatic. I wonder if she's hurting somewhere.


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## KigerQueen

id say pain. does she only rear for her owner riding her or trainers? Odie used to rear... my fiance had a nice thick pvc pipe he carried with him one day. let odie get half way up before cracking him HARD over the head with it. Odie NEVER reared again under saddle. seams mean but rearing can kill both horse and rider. not like bucking that can be worked through. rearers can flip over and land on you. 

that said i think a chiro and vet (preferably one in the same) come and look at that mare.


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## Tihannah

KigerQueen said:


> id say pain. does she only rear for her owner riding her or trainers? Odie used to rear... my fiance had a nice thick pvc pipe he carried with him one day. let odie get half way up before cracking him HARD over the head with it. Odie NEVER reared again under saddle. seams mean but rearing can kill both horse and rider. not like bucking that can be worked through. rearers can flip over and land on you.
> 
> that said i think a chiro and vet (preferably one in the same) come and look at that mare.


She rears whenever she's had enough. In the video, you can hear the trainer saying, "It's been 20 min and she's ready to be done." It could be the saddle,who knows? But this horse has been exceptionally well cared for and pampered. She's definitely a hotter horse that requires a more experienced and balanced rider than my friend to get her through this stage. I showed the video to Helen and she said, "Give her to me. She's cute and looks fun!" Because in the video, she doesn't look like a horse in pain. She looks like a horse with attitude that needs a confident rider who has a strong enough seat to ride out her objections and be firm, but fair. You can see her looking outside the roundpen, totally distracted, and flat out just not wanting to be there.

Had another short lesson last night. Didn't get off till 5p and it was already dark out, so we were confined to a small area under a light post. Despite this we did a couple run throughs of Intro A and worked more on our transitions. North was pretty distracted since it was dark and his pasture mate was being ridden around us as well. Wasn't bad at all though and he gave me some really lovely and light moments in the bridle where we felt really connected. Being able to run through our test in the dark with distractions and it not go half bad gave me high hopes for this weekend! Haha. We shall see...


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## DanteDressageNerd

Hard to say, I've known a few youngsters (especially mares) who would rear when green due to lack of confidence or clarity. It can be a stress response or from frustration, or to get away with something because they know if they intimidate the rider the rider will back off. They can learn that pretty easily. Reason for that can be a willful horse testing dominance or pain or simply needs to learn to enjoy work and how to work in partnership with a human and learn to understand human energy and language. I found with a lot of horses they'd really close off to people energy wise and it's like you had to convince them that you were different and could hear them before they'd open up and allow a person to influence them. I've found with a lot of horses it seems not so much about what you "physically" do but how you communicate to them emotionally and through energy. Horses understand that much better and if you send a very clear signal they understand that. Horses are pretty emotional and quite aware. I think the problem a lot of dressage horses face that natural horseman are aware of is that energy and connection and using the mind and opening up that network of communication vs dressage riders are more do this, do that and never listen. Just pressure and force. Done a lot of retraining and rehab projects. I've had a few who people would say were impossible or rear or bolt etc and with me I never had a problem but depends on the horse and the reason. Had others who were as described, just depends. Had others which this mare sounds like who are just sensitive to energy and don't trust or respect humans to let them in and acts out in defense and need someone to make the expectation crystal clear and leave them alone when good. Sometimes once they've gotten away with so many small things that people only see the big things now or you take something like my horse who if he gets away the little stuff that people arent usually aware of then it turns into loss of steering, brakes and a horse whose in control and making the decisions. And sometimes once they've learned how to get away with certain things, there is nothing you can do to unteach that. And some are just @ss holes (not saying this horse is) but some horses it doesnt matter who or how good the person is work with them, there is nothing you can do. Or you have some you'll see at the really high end barns that are mega talented but NASTY and dangerous and not at all for anyone but someone like Hubertus Schmidt or something. Hope this mare finds her right fit and is easily fixed. 

So many factors, hard to say. Some of those spectacular horses are really something else and professionals only types and some are types anyone could get on. Just depends. Also can see different aspects to a horse's personality when you ask for nothing vs if you ask for something and how you ask can be a factor too. But I've know quite a few horses who are talented and great if you ask for them to basically go around and do 2nd level type stuff but start asking for higher level work and they cant handle it. A higher level horse has to submit mentally and give it's body and mind to the rider. And that is something that takes convincing and takes a lot of work and a big reason why exercises like half pass or half steps are so important, it's not about pressure or schooling movements it's about the horse accepting the riders direction and releasing their body to the rider and that is where you'll see behavioral problems arise and where it takes some work to work through. Usually mares accept direction to a point and then are like hey wait a minute! It takes a very special horse who can make it to the upper levels for a reason, there are very few who can really do it. A lot of horses with potential, few with the ability. 

If you have horses with certain personality types, I've found most trainers pretty useless or can cause a lot of psychological damage that takes a long time to correct if ever. Where I used to live we had tons of FEI trainers and only one who I'd let sit on Wonder and she did a great job with him. I think the others would create a mess I couldn't fix with him. Horse world is frustrating and finding a good trainer even more so, especially if you have an unconventional horse. Like Forrest without sitting or working with them, people dont have a clue but how can they if they havent worked with something like that. A toolbox is based on experience. 

I'm really happy for you and for North. I'm really glad things are working out for you two and you're having such a great experience with him. It seems after your two with a lot of baggage, you were ready for something with a clean slate and an honest mind. I'm glad he's such a good baby. A good baby with someone in a program can be better than an older one with lots of baggage.


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## Tihannah

DanteDressageNerd said:


> Hard to say, I've known a few youngsters (especially mares) who would rear when green due to lack of confidence or clarity. It can be a stress response or from frustration, or to get away with something because they know if they intimidate the rider the rider will back off. They can learn that pretty easily. Reason for that can be a willful horse testing dominance or pain or simply needs to learn to enjoy work and how to work in partnership with a human and learn to understand human energy and language. I found with a lot of horses they'd really close off to people energy wise and it's like you had to convince them that you were different and could hear them before they'd open up and allow a person to influence them. I've found with a lot of horses it seems not so much about what you "physically" do but how you communicate to them emotionally and through energy. Horses understand that much better and if you send a very clear signal they understand that. Horses are pretty emotional and quite aware.


^^This! I think this describes the mare perfectly. I've found that communicating with my horses, not just through aids, but a lot of verbal helps a lot. I know the NH trainer used a lot of praise in his training with her - pressure, release, and praise and she responded well to that. But I don't know about the other trainers. I don't think she will ever be a horse that you can strong arm or be passive with. But if she doesn't understand, if she doesn't respect, she will test you and she will object. North is just not that way. He gets confused, but he also listens for the verbal cues and wants to please, doesn't get frustrated easily. But I talk to him A LOT and give LOTS of praise during our rides because I know my aids can get confusing and he's still learning.


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## carshon

a trainer I know just sent a young horse home who had learned to rear and flip herself over backward. The trainer had her in for WP training so I am sure she was just 2- the trainer kept telling the owner come and get her - she needs a break and the owner refused. Finally the trainer put her out in the pasture and told the owner I am done the mare is not mature enough yet.

the owner took her home and decided to "ride her on my own" and the mare reared up and flipped over. Sometimes I think we as horsepeople forget that these are still babies and some sensitive horses mature later. We "fry" their minds and they look for any escape route - and unfortunately rearing is the line most people draw and so the horse has learned to rear. I hope the little mare gets some time to mature and they try again later.

As for you and North- so happy for your continued good rides! Can't wait to hear about the show.


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## Tihannah

@carshon - agreed. I think the advantage I have with North is that he came from the track where they start them young and they're going going going - traveling, tacking up, baths, the whole 9 , so it's really all they know. I've spent a lot of groundwork and bonding time with him and everything is not about working. 

I wanna say she got the mare as a yearling and she's sat for a few years growing and just being fat and happy and then one day, boom! Work. I dont know that my friend has done much with her herself or spent time really getting to know her personality as she's one to always pay someone else to ride and work with her horses. I believe the mare is frustrated and confused from the different disciplines and different trainers.

She's not going to keep her, but hopefully she can find someone to work with her and make her into the fine horse she can be. It's just going to take a special person to get her there.


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## Tihannah

North saw the chiro today.

This lady is simply incredible and hands down, the best chiro I've ever used. The last time she came, North had several sore spots along his back that had to be worked out and I suspected it was my old saddle. This time? Not a single sore spot on his back. She was really surprised, but I told her I got him a custom saddle, and she commended me for it.

Same as last time, she found everything we were having issues with. He was definitely stuck in his neck on the left side, which is why our left lead is so much harder than the right. And then she asked me if he trips a lot, and I said, "OMG, at least 3 times every ride and usually when he's stretching down to the bit." She said it was because of his neck. She took my hand and showed me the spot. It was like a big rock in his neck. She suspected that it's been there awhile and likely happened when he was still on the track. She said not to worry though, a few more sessions and we would get it totally worked out. 

The last time she came, North was still on the alfalfa, and BOY did he give her a hard time. He whacked her on the head about 3 times with his chin, tried to bite her a couple times, and even kicked her when she was trying to work out the back soreness. This time he was a totally different horse and when I told her about the alfalfa, she laughed and said she liked this horse MUCH better! Lol. 

He didn't have as much needing attention this time, but every time she worked something out, it was like she gave him a dose of Xanax or something. She said it was endorphins being released, but I swear he looked almost drunk! By the time she finished, he looked like he could barely stay on his feet or keep his eyes open. Afterwards, I led him out to pasture and he even walked like he was drunk. When I took his halter off, he just stood there looking around like he didn't know where he was. Lol. She said we should have a really good ride this weekend though.

Spent the rest of the afternoon doing some show prep. Trimmed his mane and tail and cleaned some of my tack. Half of the group is leaving in the morning. The rest of us will leave Saturday. I feel like I have so much prep to do tomorrow and not enough time! Helen ordered custom stall guards for all of us and had a big banner made with her logo. We all got shirts and saddle pads embroidered. Student parents are bringing a table and setting up snacks and drinks for all of us. I'm so looking forward to this and seeing how he goes after the adjustment.


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## DanteDressageNerd

I'm glad things are going so well with Mr North and he had a clean bill from the chiropractor, super.

With the mare, it sounds like she'd be easy enough to work through the problems. Just needs someone very direct, consistent but very fair and maybe doesnt ask a whole lot. Just says hey this means this and this means that, then lets her cruise and mull it over and come back to it. That type seems to get frustrated easily and needs someone who leads and encourages like the natural horseman did. Always keep it simple and break it up without skipping a step and letting them know it's okay to try and get it wrong but they're not allowed to take control or have an attitude. Opinions, yes but attitude or naughty no.


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## PoptartShop

Yay for a good chiro session. That goes to show that the custom saddle really is working & is what is best for him.  Yeah, there's always at least one little thing they carry with them from the track. At least it'll be an easy fix though! LOL I'm sure he felt sooo good after that! :lol: Aww. I'm sure he will be looking so good this weekend! So excited to hear about how it goes.  You will rock it!

It'll all get done! & I have a feeling since he just got an adjustment, he will do even better!


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## Tihannah

*We did it!! (This is gonna be long!)*

The show was a total success and SO much fun!

We got there Saturday morning and my sweet baby North went from my little cuddle bug to like a crazed stallion from the moment he stepped off the trailer! I'd put a regular halter on him because he's been so easy lately. In the area where you offload, there's 2 rows of barns blocking the show area. He was already a bit tense, but when we walked around to the other side where our stalls were, it was like sensory overload!

His pasture buddy, another thoroughbred mare was there and coming off the trailer, he was comforted by here presence and they immediately called to each other as soon as he saw her. But when I took him around to the front, she stayed behind, and when he realized she wasn't near anymore, all hell broke loose! 

There was stadium jumping and dressage going on no more than 50 yards from us. Horses and people were EVERYWHERE and he just started losing it. He starts screaming for the mare, pawing, running around me and throwing his head, kicking out - it was nuts. My guy, who's not a horse person, started panicking and yelling, "WHOA!!!" I told him to calm down, that I had him, and I needed a rope halter. He said, "What if he gets away from you??" 

I told him, "I've got him! But if he gets away, it's okay, there are hundreds of horse people here. He won't get far." Lol. Thankfully, the mare's owner had brought her rope halter and quickly ran to get it and we somehow managed to get it switched out with his regular halter. I had to throw him in his stall, which wasn't even ready yet, cause my arms were aching from trying to hold him and keep him from flipping out and bolting. The worst part, is that one of the girls who I haven't seen since I got North and thought it was not a good idea for me to get a 3yr old OTTB, just happened to be walking by while all this was going on and said, "Is that North???" I must've given her a deadly look because she instantly went silent and kept moving without me saying a word. Lol.

Once we got him in his stall, we were able to get the rust of our stuff unloaded and get his stall set up. I gave him about an hour to relax in his stall, but Helen insisted that I needed to get him out and walk him around as much as possible to get him acclimated. So since the mare, who is ALSO 3 and could not have cared less about the environment, was showing next. I brought him out and tagged along with them, to try and keep him settled. He was better this time around, but still wide eyed and wouldn't graze. He just wanted to stay close to her. We stayed near while they tacked up and she rode her dressage test. With dressage we could stand right outside the ring when they rode, so he had a clear view of her. They called to each other a couple times during her test.

Jumping was on the other side and she had to go off further to do her warm up. There were lots of horses warming up, and North couldn't see her and started panicking again. I ended up having to take him back to his stall to calm down and let her do her jump course in peace. Lol. But even getting him back to his stall peacefully was a handful.

Helen had decided that as soon as everyone finished their tests and courses, we would do our schooling. Only me and another student were the only ones doing straight dressage and not riding till Sunday. Literally, up until that point, I thought it was a strong possibility I was going to have to scratch my rides. Thankfully, by that time, a lot of the commotion had calmed down. I tacked him up in his stall and when I put the saddle on, he instantly appeared a lot more calm. We got gully tacked and I walked him up tot he covered arena with the other girl and her horse that were riding. 

I had to mount outside the arena, so I asked my guy to hold him while I mounted and lead us into the arena. The arena is enclosed by gates, and I didn't want to take a chance of him freaking out and bolting with me. But it was the strangest thing ever. The moment I got in the saddle, his whole demeanor changed. It was like my legs were his security blanket and all the nervousness left him because he knew he could trust me. Though he could get a bit distracted at moments, it was nothing like the horse I'd been handling on the ground all day. I gave him half halts or taps with the whip to remind him to pay attention, and we went to work! Below is a small clip from our schooling session. I was honestly shocked at how well he schooled for me despite being an absolute MANAIC all day! Lol.






The next day we were up at 4am and back at the barn by 6am. We were the first ride of the day at 8am, so Helen wanted us fully tacked up and ready for warm up by 7am. Our warm up went really good and he was even more relaxed than the day before. We worked on our transitions a lot and did a lot of work at the walk. When it came time to ride out test, my nerves were totally gone and I thought, "As long as he doesn't jump outta the ring and I don't come off, this is will be good!"

I messed up on the first test. The first 20m circle is at A, but I am so used to doing them at E or B, that I started circling at the wrong spot, caught myself and then quickly veered back, but of course, it cost us points. Though North was a little nervous, he did his best to follow through of everything I asked and I was super happy with him.

He was literally a saint between our rides. They were 40 min apart, but Helen wanted me to stay in the saddle, so he wouldn't think we were done. So we hung around and watched the other two riders in our class, then hacked around the property a bit and came back. Went back in the warm up ring and schooled a little more before our 2nd test, and then went back in and rocked it! The second test was even better. We found our tempo and he was more relaxed. We got second place with a 62.2% on the first test and 1st place with a 63.1% on the second test! I couldn't believe it and got choked up when I went to collect our ribbons. I was so proud of my little man and he handled it all like a champ.

Below are just some of my favorite shots from both schooling the day before and the day of the show. It truly was a great experience for both us, and I am so excited to keep growing with him, and prove the naysayers wrong about what a fantastic horse he is for me!


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## knightrider

I DO hope you found that girl who doubted North and then saw how wild he was acting and showed her the two ribbons! I couldn't be more pleased for you!


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## Tihannah

knightrider said:


> I DO hope you found that girl who doubted North and then saw how wild he was acting and showed her the two ribbons! I couldn't be more pleased for you!


I actually did! Haha! She just happened to come in the show office when I picked up my ribbons! ;-)


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## Tazzie

LOVE this update!!! I KNEW you could do it!! The superstars of The Horse Forum!!


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## Golden Horse

Congratulations what a great weekend. Great scores, and so exciting to win, but to me the biggest win would have been North just settling for you when you got on...that’s the moment you bottle, and remember.


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## Tihannah

Golden Horse said:


> Congratulations what a great weekend. Great scores, and so exciting to win, but to me the biggest win would have been North just settling for you when you got on...that’s the moment you bottle, and remember.


ABSOLUTELY!! i think that is mostly why my nerves went away when it came time to ride my tests, cause I was like, "Look how awesome my pony is being for me a new environment!" Everything else was totally secondary! But when I realized we got 1st and 2nd place? It just made it even more surreal and justified my thoughts and how much potential he has and how far we can go together and that this is just the beginning of our journey.


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## carshon

Those pics are gorgeous! He looks so grown up! Congratulations on your show success!


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## PoptartShop

Congratulations!!! SO happy and proud of you both!!!!!!!! You guys totally rocked it!!!   *does happy dance* really, great great job. & screw that lady, LOL I bet she shut right up & was super jealous when she saw the ribbons. 

So exciting, especially since it was his very first show.  Amazing update. & he totally trusts you, it's amazing that he calmed down right when you got in the saddle.

Rope halters really are the best, I swear by those things! :lol: I love the photos & video, you guys did amazing!! <3 Eeeek!!!


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## KigerQueen

Congrats! Amazing first show! and this is just one of many. Just keep him in a rope halter when leaving the property. they dont hurt anything and are handy to have when needed. i almost exclusively use rope halters. not only are they good for ground manners but one halter fits odies moose head (he needs a warmblood halter) and i can use it to lead my arab and pony (they use yearling halters). 


you need to invest on one of the video cameras that sit on a tripod and track your movement around the ring. they even auto zoom. THAT would be awesome to use to see for lessons too.


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## Tihannah

KigerQueen said:


> Congrats! Amazing first show! and this is just one of many. Just keep him in a rope halter when leaving the property. they dont hurt anything and are handy to have when needed. i almost exclusively use rope halters. not only are they good for ground manners but one halter fits odies moose head (he needs a warmblood halter) and i can use it to lead my arab and pony (they use yearling halters).
> 
> 
> you need to invest on one of the video cameras that sit on a tripod and track your movement around the ring. they even auto zoom. THAT would be awesome to use to see for lessons too.


It's on my list! Thinking of getting one as a birthday present to myself in Feb. ;-)


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## Tihannah

Sooo...just some thoughts I had from last weekend regarding showing and wanted to get you guys' opinions that show and/or compete. Doesn't have to be just dressage, but...

Do you think it hurts a rider to show below their riding level?

I ask this because the other girl that showed dressage with me did not do as well as expected, and I was honestly baffled by her scores. She showed Training Level 2 & 3, but at home, she is solid first level and schooling most of 2nd and 3rd level and even recently started riding in a double bridle. She has been competing at Training Level for the past 3 years. Her horse is 17 and well schooled and I believe once actively competed at 3rd level. She only began lessoning with Helen this year, and Helen gets frustrated because every time she enters a show, she still enters at Training Level. The girl is almost 16, I believe, and has been riding since she was 2. She also used to do dance and is very athletic, so her position is always lovely. She's a MUCH better rider than I am, but scored 57% and 58% on her two training level tests placing 3rd and 4th in her classes, and the judge seemed to tear her up in comparison to the notes on my test. I watched her tests and was sure she would score in the 70's on the first one. But this has happened at several shows we have both shown in and even more recently when she competed at a Pony Club rally. She's been desperately trying to qualify for Pony Club Championships and she needs two scores 60% or higher, and this was her 3rd time not being able to achieve it.

Helen's theory is that she's competing below both her and her horse's level and that the judge is looking for different things at the different levels and it's hurting her. Where because she wants to qualify, she has felt that competing at a lower level guaranteed her qualification, but instead it has seemed to hurt her? The judge dinged her for doing sitting trot instead of posting and said she was not allowing the horse to be free in his back. Said she leaned too far back in her seat. Said her hands were too high. In other words, she rode like an upper level rider in a training level test and got shredded for it. 

I, on the other hand, made goofy, noob mistakes. One of my circles were too small, I veered off course, and North wasn't always consistent in the contact, but she gave me very encouraging remarks and said we were headed in the right direction and a lovely pair and both of my tests scored 5 points higher than hers.

So yea, it begs me to question... Does it really hurt to show and compete below your level? Thoughts??


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## PoptartShop

Hmm...I don't compete, but it does sound like it can hurt to show below your level in some cases, like that. It does kinda make sense, what Helen is saying, if the judge is looking for different things at different levels. I never thought of it that way, but it makes sense. Since she rode like an upper level rider in a training level, the judge was probably not looking for that kind of a rider & that is why she got a lower score. But in your case, since North is new to it, you did better than her & showed at the level which was more appropriate for you and North (which is great, pretty awesome that you got higher scores than she did lol!).  

She should be showing at a higher level. I see where she's coming from, by thinking since she and her horse are at a higher level, it'll easily qualify her when she shows at lower levels. But I guess that isn't the case. Not sure why she won't just show at a higher level, especially since her AND her horse could probably do well at it...hmm! Very interesting.

I think having a little challenge is good. If people showed below their level all the time it wouldn't really do much good for them.


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## Tihannah

Well, I know the rule of thumb in dressage is to show the level below what you are schooling. So if you are schooling 2nd level, then you should be showing first level. But I've tagged along with Helen a few times when she goes to teach this girl and in her lessons, they are doing a lot of lateral work, half passes, flying changes, etc. and then she goes to a show and does training level?? I don't get it. Lol. 

I do know that the overall frame of the horse is different when you get to the mid-upper levels and this horse goes in a very upward frame, unlike North, who is still in a more training level frame. She also got a lot of dings for the horse being "tense" or "tight over his back". I didn't see this either. This is a horse who will literally start dozing off if she stops in the middle of her ride. Lol. I thought North was a little tense, but not one remark on either of those for our test. So yea, I don't know...


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## knightrider

We need @DanteDressageNerd here. I'd like to hear her opinion about this.

I only had one experience similar to showing below our level. I had a young very green horse at her first show, but she loved to jump. Since it was her first show, I had entered her in some baby green classes where the jumps were only 18 inches. She hit every jump. Then I tried her in higher jumps and she got second place out of 10. She did not like those low jumps that, in her opinion, were for babies. She didn't consider herself a baby.

I also know that some judges are familiar with certain riders and have pre-conceived notions about those riders (happily never happened to me--big WHEW), and the judges might be giving this girl lower scores because they didn't like something about her? I know it's not right and it's not fair, but I saw it at shows sometimes.


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## Tihannah

Yes, I would love to hear from Cassie and @Tazzie and @lostastirrup on their thoughts as well. I wish I had video of her ride. Literally, our whole group was taken back by her scores, and I felt bad because after I rode my tests and got my scores, I told her there was no way she wouldn't get her qualifying scores. :-/

Gave North off Monday and Tuesday after the show and did short 20-25 min rides Wednesday and last night. It was chilly and dark out and we had one light post to ride under, but last night I left he barn just enamored with my pony. He was still out in the pasture when I got there, and I couldn't see him, but could see the new paint in the neighboring pasture running back and forth along the fence line, so I assumed he was in that direction. I called to him and started heading that way. I hadn't gotten halfway before I heard him loudly call out to me from the other direction. I turned around and he was trotting my way and making that noise he always makes when he sees me or its feeding time and it warmed my heart. He was like, "Mom! I'm here! Don't you dare go see that other pony!" Lol. He still stands tied, quiet as can be while we tack up. Once I get his bridle on, he's tied to nothing, while I grab my helmet and gloves from my trunk which is steps away. He doesn't wander off. Instead he follows me to my trunk to check things out in there while I get my helmet on. Never leaves my side.

Teaching him is so easy. Our past few rides, he hasn't wanted to stand for mounting, so I usually ask someone to hold him while I get on and get situated. Last night I was on my own and sure enough, when I stood on the block, he moved back or stepped sideways, and I only tried a couple times to line him back up straight before I just gave him a good tap on the butt with my whip and said, "Hey! I said whoa." I didn't think it would actually work, lol, but sure enough, he moved closer to the block and stood stock still for me to mount. He's a baby, so he does things to test me, but when I give him a correction, he's always like, "Okay, sorry!" and tries to do better. This is what I love about him.

During our rides, I've really focused on keeping a steady contact and keeping his focus on me. Schooling during the show, Helen told me I was too slow with my aids, and needed to work on catching it BEFORE he came above the bit or got too distracted. Wednesday was pretty good, but last night was fabulous. I really pushed to keep him forward and in front of my leg, bending, and on the bit. We focused on transitions down with me just using my seat and not touching his mouth, and transitioning up without him having to throw his head up. He did super.

What I can't get over, is how much he wants to please. I talk to him A LOT because he just responds so well. He loves the praise and pays attention to verbal corrections. His temperament and personality are simply perfect for me and we both continue to learn and bond. I am his person and he makes it clear. He is the kind of horse I've been waiting my entire life for, and I still can't believe I found him.


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## greentree

It really doesn’t matter what level you school or show, or have shown in the past. The judge only sees what is in front of them On That Day, In That Test. I had a friend whose mare had SHOWN PSG, and her trainer left, so she showed TL to bring her back.

Congratulations on the fabulous show!,! Yay!,! The pictures are gorgeous!


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## PoptartShop

Omg how cute!!!! He loves his momma! <3 I love that he follows you. That is true love right there. He knows you are his person. All it takes is a little correction & he's like ah, okay mom! That's what I love about babies. They test, but eventually they're just like okay, sorry! :lol: I am so glad you had a good ride on him. 

I have to talk to Promise a lot too & people probably think I'm crazy, but it helps doesn't it?!! LOL :lol: Yes! So eager to please & loves praise. You guys are so good together. It is definitely clear that you are his person. You are in this journey of learning TOGETHER! It's great. 

People always say 'don't get a young horse' but they don't realize how amazing it can be. Learning with your horse is one of the most rewarding things ever. So happy for you guys!!


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## Golden Horse

Second show last year I was very disappointed with the sores we got at Basic (training) level. Coach explained then that Fergie no longer looked like a training level horse, we were asking more of her, she was shaping up differently so I had to decide what I wanted to ride at...and we chose first and second, and that was better.


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## Tazzie

I absolutely believe they can be scored lower for shower lowing. There is a difference in going back to training level while riding in a training level frame... and riding like you do at home in a second level frame. These are very different frames. Training level is to show basics for the most part. The horse understands connection to the bit, suppleness, and forward. I went and pulled of what each level is looking for...

Training Level: To confirm that the horse demonstrates correct basics, is supple and moves freely forward in a clear rhythm with a steady tempo, accepting contact with the bit.

First Level: To confirm that the horse demonstrates correct basics, and in addition to the requirements of Training Level, has developed the thrust to achieve improved balance and throughness and to maintain a more consistent contact with the bit. 

Second Level: To confirm that the horse demonstrates correct basics, and having achieved the thrust required in First Level, now accepts more weight on the hindquarters (collection); moves with an uphill tendency, especially in the medium gaits; and is reliably on the bit. A greater degree of straightness, bending, suppleness, throughness, balance and self-carriage is required than at First Level.

Those are taken straight from Test 3 of all three levels. So if she is riding her horse with the requirements of Second, but showing in Training Level... well, she's not exactly show what Training Level wants. It's all fine and dandy that she's higher... but what she may look like to a judge is someone trying to just beat the newbies...


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## Golden Horse

Lol @Tazzie I was doing the scores for English Dressage at our last home show. I happened to notice on all of our barn divas tests.....Walk Trot, that the judge hoped she would be moving up next year...phrased a little differently on all the sheets, but very very clear that she is to get her backside up a level. This lady is riding a cute little Warmblood, that is trainer ridden 3 times a week, was trainer ridden and shown last year, and they just cleaned up in walk trot....

On our circuit there is a lot of frowning on people who insist on riding at lower levels, just to win...walk trot is for kids, and adult beginners.

Having said that , not sure where Stella and I will start....I would love to do walk trot and training....but i’m Pretty sure coach might not agree...depending on how she is developing...


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## Tazzie

@Golden Horse, for a green horse... I am always in support of trying the lower stuff first. I showed Diego who had been trainer ridden and shown for two years (at walk jog lope) in walk trot classes since it was an entirely different way of working with me. After the second super successful show of walk trot I said "ok, enough, time to show at the canter no matter how ugly it might be." I didn't feel right just whooping kids for fun. I made sure to ride in green horse/junior horse classes since he technically was, but he showed such an affinity for what we were now doing that it was an easy decision to move on up. I would have zero issue with Stella showing walk trot since the horse you have at home... isn't always the horse that shows up for a show. Diego's first show I was SO glad we weren't cantering. His mind was blown just doing walk trot. Canter would have been dangerous to the other riders and judge. Walk trot is also for young horses new to showing. Remember that :wink:


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## Golden Horse

LOL, sorry for side tracking your thread @Tihannah....

First show of the season is in March..she will either do walk trot with me, or if A is riding her might do training level.


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## Tihannah

Golden Horse said:


> LOL, sorry for side tracking your thread @Tihannah....
> 
> First show of the season is in March..she will either do walk trot with me, or if A is riding her might do training level.


No, no! This is the conversation I was looking for!

And she rode her horse just as @Tazzie said - in a second level frame - up in the bridle, sitting trot, with her hands like Charlotte D. She got dinged for both sitting and the higher hands. But like I said, her horse is practically a school master, and I don't think he even knows how to go in a training level frame anymore. At least I've never seen him in a lower level frame. Perhaps taking him into a training level test and riding like a 2nd level rider made it look like she was trying to skip the basics to win the ribbons.


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## KigerQueen

for a first show for a horse im all for in hand and walk trot classes. odies first 3 under saddle classes were walk trot because i had not even started loping him yet (never met a horse with 4 left feet. im amazing he does not fall or stumble more). BUT the rule with the saddle club circuit is if you show one year walk trot and place over a certain amount you CANNOT show walk trot for year end points after. even for kids. so next time i start showing him it will be 3 gaited classes. possibly take him in english since it will be another year at least before i start seriously showing.


I am SOOOOO glad you are having fun with north. now that i know how odie works (or tries to avoid it) i have a blast working with him. since i cant my friend has been riding and LOVING it. its an amazing feeling when you and a horse have a connection and they want to work with you and are willing to learn! being preggers is ruining my fun on that front ****!


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## seabiscuit91

Lower level Dressage is sooo different to the higher levels, and the judges are looking at/for entirely different things. So it's not surprising that even though she may have looked the better rider, it didn't show in her scores. 
It's the same with horses, even really fancy horses will score poorly at low levels, because they're not what's required. But will do exceedingly well once higher up because of how they move/carry themselves. 

Hopefully this pushes her to move up! also the higher up you move, the more movements you get, allowing potentially for far better scores, if she gets all 6s in a higher level test she should easily get over 60%


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## Golden Horse

Then there is the fact that horses, like Fergie, get bored during the lower levels, she had more time to get distracted...the more movements the better she was.


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## Tihannah

seabiscuit91 said:


> Lower level Dressage is sooo different to the higher levels, and the judges are looking at/for entirely different things. So it's not surprising that even though she may have looked the better rider, it didn't show in her scores.
> It's the same with horses, even really fancy horses will score poorly at low levels, because they're not what's required. But will do exceedingly well once higher up because of how they move/carry themselves.
> 
> Hopefully this pushes her to move up! also the higher up you move, the more movements you get, allowing potentially for far better scores, if she gets all 6s in a higher level test she should easily get over 60%


I've heard this before, that some horses bred for upper level dressage would never show well at the lower levels and vice versa. I think the girl is going to give up the training level thing and focus on getting her bronze now, which I think is a better move for her.

No ride time today. :-( It's been pouring all day. Our barn is self care, but we have a great little barn family that takes care of each other's horses. I live 40 min from the barn, so I can't do morning feedings during the week.I don't get off till 5pm, so someone has usually fed by the time I get there in the evenings. So on weekends, I often go out to feed so the others can sleep in, run errands, go to church, etc. It was a downpour by the time I got there this morning, and the horses were so happy to be brought in, only had to open pasture gates (not at the same time), and every one filed into the barn and into their stalls for breakfast. Forrest is still pasture boarded, but we have a couple open stalls right now. When he saw me, he started to head towards his feed pan, but I opened the gate and hollered for him to come in and get out of the rain. As soon as he realized he was coming in, he came trotting out and ran right past me, into the barn and in the empty stall. Lol. He looked so happy to be coming in. I fed him and gave him a load of hay and he got to stay in, nice and cozy to ride out the rain.

I did manage to get off work early yesterday and get a ride in while the sun was still out. Although I still need to work on keeping my heels down and legs long, I definitely think my position is getting better every day. Below are just a few stills from our ride.


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## Golden Horse

Looking fine! 

North is very handsome, take it as read, now look UP!

You and him just look like a good partnership, you just look different on him, the tension isn’t there I think. Lovely pics.


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## Tihannah

Golden Horse said:


> Looking fine!
> 
> North is very handsome, take it as read, now look UP!
> 
> You and him just look like a good partnership, you just look different on him, the tension isn’t there I think. Lovely pics.


Lol, yes and thank you! That's the other thing on my list! Such a terrible habit. During our schooling session for the show, Helen was talking to me while we were trotting. I got so engrossed in my exchange with her that I wasn't staring at the back of his head, and without even realizing, he was going so consistent and lovely. She then made me trot big circles only looking at her. Lol.

And you're right, I feel such a connection to this horse. It is not a struggle with him, but just figuring it out. He is such a joy to learn from and teach!


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## phantomhorse13

Want something silly to help you remember to look up? Slap a headlamp on your helmet, so the light sits just above the visor. You will suddenly be highly aware of just where you are looking as that weight sitting there makes a huge difference!!

All those years of my hunter coach yelling at me to look up and my trying and not managing for more than a couple strides.. and all she needed to do was give me a helmetcam. :wink:


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## KigerQueen

my trainer likes to remind me to look where i want to go. its a habit i have too. But she hounds me and i have gotten better. i find the less i stare at his ears the better he holds together lol!


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## PoptartShop

Boo about the rain. Awww, Forrest was probably loving that! Nice and cozy. 
Ugh, I have some issues with looking up too sometimes. I have to keep remembering LOOK where you want to go. It works and the ride is so much better.

You guys look fantastic. :smile: Happy you got to ride yesterday!! Your position is improving & now that you have a saddle that fits both of you properly, it makes a huge difference!


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## DanteDressageNerd

It depends on the horse and rider. What a judge score well at training vs first vs second vs third, etc is quite different. It also depends on the judge and what that individual judge wants to see. As Katie said the levels have different requirements and if you're not meeting those expectations you aren't going to score well. Same as I find people are MUCH more critical if they can see you're a capable rider than if they see you're starting out and they're less harsh. If the judge can see someone who clearly belongs in another level showing with "newbies" they may deem it unfair as well as score that rider harshly. 

For example I wont show Wonder training, 1st or 2nd level. Why? I know he'll never score well so why bother. He carries too much tension, he's too uphill and moves like a horse aimed for the FEI levels. He needs to be ridden on contact and worked in a deeper outline or he just takes control and does what he wants. He doesn't have natural suspension, he's not a big flashy mover, he's too uphill, doesn't really track up and he doesnt look loose or supple or pleasant to ride and you can feel his tension and anxiousness just watching him. Great quality for a GP horse, will never score well low or mid level. Its hard to explain but I think Wonder is a really good example. The BHSI trainer I cliniced with said between Frankie and Wonder that if I was serious about the GP to choose Wonder and if I wanted to score well and hear how nice a rider I am to keep Frankie. Low levels they want to see an easy, uncomplicated, relaxed, supple horse who tracks up is easy in the bridle. Doesn't collect too much with nose poked out. Upper levels and with collection the horse needs to be able to accept and take contact and really bring themselves under and engage from behind and over the back. The musculature in the upper level horse vs the low level horse is completely different and the mechanics of HOW the horse moves changes. I also know if/when I show Wonder I will show him in the double. He is night and day different snaffle to double bridle. But riding him in the double has made him better in the snaffle and each trainer/rider has to evaluate their situation and go with what's best.

Wonder is becoming more relaxed and he is becoming looser and more elastic but he isn't a horse who starts relaxed, that's something that doing half pass, half steps and piaffe works brings into him. Just walk, trot, and canter makes him more tense and anxious because he doesn't have something to settle his brain on and so would likely act up and get more tense in a training level test than say a 3rd level test. In Europe with horses like that they often will push them up the levels to get them ready to show at PSG, so they can sell them where they're worth something. The sales systems in Europe are designed to push out horses and horses that are really talented and something they take their time to develop but if it's a sales horse they dont put in the same amount of time. With a big, flashy moving youngster they may push them out early because they know that is the max value they'll get and that that fabulous horse will do great in the young horse classes but isnt going to make a GP horse. A horse who may be very plain but has good mechanics and they know has FEI talent they'll push up the levels to get it sold.

I think she needs to show at least 1st, if not 2nd. And get out of her comfort zone. People always want to play safe but sometimes you gotta take risks to grow.

But I'm really glad North and you had such a successful adventure with North at your first show. He seems to be exactly what you needed and something you can enjoy and grow with. Can be a lot easier to develop something with no previous habits than to work with something more experienced but know all the evasions.


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## Tihannah

Despite being cloudy and kinda chilly, it was a really nice weekend. Didn't get to ride last weekend because of nonstop rain, and only had a short lesson on Wednesday after Helen did a little canter work with him. Didn't ride any of the other days. Its always dark when I get to the barn and I'm usually the last one there and don't like riding in the dark by myself at night.

Yesterday was a fun day of changing things up. We did a little flat work, then played trotting over some poles, walking over a tarp, and then just hacking around the property. He was just so cute with everything and I love how hard he tries for me.

Tackling the poles (we both need work on this kinda stuff! lol)





Tackling the tarp





The scary hay bale





Hacking out. The girl I'm riding with is 10 and her mare is North's pasture mate and also a 3 yr old OTTB. A couple weeks ago was their 1st show too and they took 3rd place in a CT class. She still wears her show number on her mare's bridle. 





Today we got a little more serious and I decided to try and canter him. His canter is really unbalanced and discombobulated still and I didn't want to be all in his face, so I decided to put my german martingale on him. It was a lot harder than I thought and I really struggled to get him to pick up the right lead. I think we got it once! Lol. So after several attempts, I unhooked the martingale and we just did some nice trot work. Helen's going to have to do more work with him in the canter first. I just don't feel like I'm good enough to get it and teach him how to properly carry himself. We haven't pushed it cause he's a baby and I know his strength and balance will get better with time. 

I've gotten better about keeping him forward and he gets more and more consistent about the contact. I am still working on looking up and keeping my heels down. It's harder for me on left lead cause he tends to lean on that side and I need a lot of leg to get him off that inside shoulder, so I tend to bring my heels up as I'm try to push him into my outside rein. When I can remember to look up and bring my shoulders back, he's really lovely. All is a work in progress though, and I'm really happy with both of our progress. Helen is outta town for 2 weeks for Christmas, so no lessons for awhile.

Below is some of our trot work from today. 





And finally, good news for Forrest! One of the workers at my old barn is from England and has been riding and training a green horse for my old trainer. Well, now my old trainer wants her to lease the horse, and she's not keen on the idea of paying to train someone's horse for them. So I told her she could come try Forrest and if she can handle riding him, I would love for someone to help get him somewhat back in shape. She was ecstatic and said she LOVED Forrest and always wanted to ride him before he left.

So she met me out at the barn today and we got him tacked up. I told her that I've only ridden him once since he's been back with me, so I'd hop on first to see how he'd do. I explained all his previous quirks, issues about the contact, treatment with EPM, and his really big gaits. I got on first and did some walk and trot with him and though he was still resistant about the contact, it was nothing like before. He was a lot easier to soften and really responsive to my seat. I was rather surprised in fact. Lol.

Once I tested him out, she was ready to hop on and did REALLY well with him, and really enjoyed riding him. He was a good boy and really tried to do well. I feel so guilty about not having more time to devote to him, and would really love for someone to show him the time and attention he deserves. She's a really sweet girl and is used to riding green horses, so she may be a good fit for him.


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## Tazzie

Those videos are great! I love how much he trusts you to walk across the tarp! Such a good boy! The trot video is fantastic! I love how well he tracks up and he just looks so soft and happy with his job! A baby at times, but honestly that is expected with his age and level of education! I wouldn't worry too much about the canter right now. My trainer (and a lot of other trainers) always said to fix the canter, to work on the walk and trot. Get him working really well there and his canter will slowly improve! Of course he'll need some work at the canter, but at least it's something you CAN do in the meantime!


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## Tihannah

Tazzie said:


> Those videos are great! I love how much he trusts you to walk across the tarp! Such a good boy! The trot video is fantastic! I love how well he tracks up and he just looks so soft and happy with his job! A baby at times, but honestly that is expected with his age and level of education! I wouldn't worry too much about the canter right now. My trainer (and a lot of other trainers) always said to fix the canter, to work on the walk and trot. Get him working really well there and his canter will slowly improve! Of course he'll need some work at the canter, but at least it's something you CAN do in the meantime!


Thank you, Katie, that really means a lot! You've seen my journey with Forrest and Tess and how hard it was, so it's become really important to me to try and develop him correctly. For me, trying to undo bad training or psychological damage is so much harder than starting fresh. He really trusts me and is very comfortable with me, so I don't want to do anything to damage that. I really want to teach him without it being stressful or expecting too much. He has such a great personality and temperament and is so willing and tries so hard to get it right.

I also think it's helped being at a self-care barn now. At my old barn, if I was going out, I was always going out to ride, because everything else was done for me. So I almost think it created a wedge in my bond with Forrest and Tess. I think they knew that if I was there, work was involved. With North it's different because there's a lot of days I don't have time to ride. I go out and feed and clean his stall, just groom and spend time with him, and then turn him out, so he probably has a different perception of me than they did. I definitely feel a lot more bonded to him.

I try my best not to force him into a frame, but focus on him being soft. Helen's main horse came to her at age 9 and has a bad habit of sucking behind the vertical. No matter how much work they do, she can't seem to break her of it, so they always get pinged on their dressage tests at shows. It's an evasion tactic that I never want him to learn, so when he comes above the bit, I always go to leg first before hand, and if he's a little in front, I'm okay with that. We started him under saddle in August, so just seeing how far he's come in only 4 months really makes me happy. 

P.S. You might notice in parts of the video when he's not going right and I check/adjust my position and then he gets right back nice again.


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## Tazzie

I agree. That's what was happening with Izzie too, and she became a bit hard to catch. Now she sees me daily. She can still be a bit rotten about riding back to back days, but our connection has gotten deeper with her being home. I think you're doing an excellent job! I also prefer nose in front of the vertical. Izzie can suck back too thanks to her short neck, and it's a real challenge to get it out once she ducks behind. I think you're creating a very happy horse with how you're going about things  and yes! I noticed that! I love seeing minimal hand usage when riding!


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## Golden Horse

Your story is a good example of why you can’t answer the question “the one horse that taught me everything” sensibly.

Your harder horses have taught you so much, and now North is going to benefit, while teaching you so much more.


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## PoptartShop

I love all the videos.  What a good boy! Nothing seems to phase him. I love it.

He looks so good in the trot video, too. Such nice rhythm. 
The canter is a lot to 'perfect', I am still learning how to get Promise's canter to be more smooth. When Helen is back she can work with him more and it'll help you too. The trot and walk are just as important, and you guys are doing so well with those.

And wow, she's only 10?! That's amazing!!! I never thought a 10yr old would be able to handle a 3yr old OTTB LOL! She sounds like an awesome rider. That's pretty awesome.  

Wow, that is great to hear about Forrest too.  It sounds like she may be a match for him. It'll be good for him to have someone who can ride him all the time. That is such good news!!


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## Tihannah

PoptartShop said:


> And wow, she's only 10?! That's amazing!!! I never thought a 10yr old would be able to handle a 3yr old OTTB LOL! She sounds like an awesome rider. That's pretty awesome.


She's quite a fearless, gifted little rider.  We think her mare is 3, but she could be 4 now. They got her from a not so great breeder in Louisiana who never bothered to register her, and from what I understand, she was going up for auction when they found her. She was skin and bones when they got her with virtually no muscle. This is her first horse and mom and dad aren't horse people, but they've really done a remarkable job caring for the mare and bringing her back to a healthy weight and condition and just learning everything they can. Ideally, not the best idea to buy a 3yr old TB for a 10 yr old girl, lol, but just like North, this mare has defied all the stereotypes. Many worried that once she had gained weight and was healthy, that she would become too much horse for the girl, but surprisingly, her behavior has only gotten better since getting healthy.

She was calm as a cucumber at the show and walked around the place like she'd seen it a million times. She was the mare I had to latch on to to keep North calm when we walked them around. I think those two are going to grow to be a remarkable pair together.


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## Tihannah

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays All!

North got most of last week off due to the weather and working late. I think we did a really nice, short ride on Monday and that was it until last Saturday. We rode with 2 other girls and their horses and he was simply not game. One thing I've come to realize is that it is very hard to get him to focus on me when other horses are around. He basically just wants to do whatever they are doing and stay close to them, despite the other horses working or jumping with their riders. He would not stay forward or hold a rhythm. I knew it was just a baby thing and paid no mind and just tried to do what we could without getting him worked up. I only put my foot down once because he tried to throw a tantrum. We were just trotting along in a straight line and for no reason at all, he decided to buck and then start cantering. A month or two ago, it probably would have frightened me a bit (because of my fall) and I would have been nervous the rest of the ride. Instead, I brought him back, laughed at him, and then made him trot nice again. I laughed because he's not strong enough in the canter to do anything more than a few strides without losing his balance with me in the saddle. I also know that he's not a horse with a big objection and yields fairly easily when met with a firm no. Once he gave me 2 laps of a nice trot, I allowed him to walk. 

Sunday I worked him solo. We lunged for about 10 min or so before riding, just to work on the forward in his trot and open the stride a bit. He was really nice when I got in the saddle and got better and better on left lead getting off that inside shoulder. 

Yesterday, we worked on more building up at the trot, response to the aids, and transitions. He was really good, but I SO wish we had a real arena to work in. They had a big covered arena at the show we went to and he felt amazing riding in there. The footing was great and it was just easier to get him focused and working. Despite all this, he continues to get better with each ride. He is always fun to work with and such an easy and willing partner. I also LOVE his walk! Lol. He was such a nice working walk. I don't know what I did to deserve such a nice horse, but I could not be more grateful to have him. 

Below is a short clip from yesterday and just a few still from Sunday.


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## lostastirrup

OMG you look so professional! I love this one.


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## Tihannah

lostastirrup said:


> OMG you look so professional! I love this one.


Haha, thanks! I was so giddy that he was giving me such a nice trot that I was wearing a big goofy grin. Hence why my head is cutoff in many of the photos. Lol.


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## Rainaisabelle

I havent really been on horseforum lately but I am trying to catch up on everyones threads. I just had to say though, and it probably doesn't mean much but, I am so **** proud of you.


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## Tihannah

Rainaisabelle said:


> I havent really been on horseforum lately but I am trying to catch up on everyones threads. I just had to say though, and it probably doesn't mean much but, I am so **** proud of you.


Means a TON!! Thank you, Raina!


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## DanteDressageNerd

I'm really glad you have North in your life, he seems like the right horse at the right and you were at a point in your development where you could develop him. Temperament is everything and find the right balance for yourself and what suits you. I'm glad you had Forrest and Tess too, without them you couldn't have what you have with North now. Every horse and experience is important, even the bad ones and I'm so glad you have him and have the confidence again to laugh when he does little baby stuff. Normal for babies to have little moments. You're doing a great job with him, I'm glad to see the partnership here. It's definitely different from with your other two. You seem a lot happier and the partnership is a harmony.


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## Tihannah

DanteDressageNerd said:


> I'm really glad you have North in your life, he seems like the right horse at the right and you were at a point in your development where you could develop him. Temperament is everything and find the right balance for yourself and what suits you. I'm glad you had Forrest and Tess too, without them you couldn't have what you have with North now. Every horse and experience is important, even the bad ones and I'm so glad you have him and have the confidence again to laugh when he does little baby stuff. Normal for babies to have little moments. You're doing a great job with him, I'm glad to see the partnership here. It's definitely different from with your other two. You seem a lot happier and the partnership is a harmony.


Thank you, Cassie. I think you're right. Tess and especially Forrest were hard. Forrest was like a never ending struggle, but I fully appreciate what each horse taught me. I totally agree that I would not have been ready for North before either of them. And it's TRUE, he just fits me. He is just enough of a challenge to be enjoyable, yet not frustrating. He would probably be boring for you! Lol. But he teaches me as I teach him, so it makes the journey truly fun. 

I think when we choose a horse for ourselves, we always want that horse to be "the one". I wanted it with Tess, and I wanted it with Forrest. But not until North did I realize how much my partnership lacked with the other two. I am his person and he makes it known. He's bitten Helen twice. Snapped at a couple other barn girls. Never me. And when I go out to the pasture to get him, he simply wont allow his pasture mate to come between us. He pins his ears and makes her backup while I get his halter on. When I am done riding, I hop off, give him rubs and kisses, and then he follows me back to the barn. I dont have to hold his reins or anything. And when I ride, he tries so hard to get it right, even when I'm awkward and unbalanced, and each ride, we both improve.

He is the horse I've waited my entire life for, but the icing on the cake is that he's only 3.5, and we have so many years ahead together.


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## Tihannah

Squeezed in one last ride yesterday before the storms rolled in. I'm so bummed. I'm on vacation till the 2nd and weather is predicting rain for the next 4-5 days. I was so looking forward to getting our mini dressage ring setup at the barn and getting some more rides in during daylight hours. Below are some clips from yesterday.


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## PoptartShop

So glad you finally got to ride despite the weather being so darn crappy. :icon_rolleyes: Of course when you're on vaca!

North looks great as always. He really is coming along. <3 I'm so happy for you both. UGH and I love the pictures. You guys look fantastic!!


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## Rainaisabelle

Glad you got to ride! You guys look amazing


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## LoriF

OMG You guys look so great together!! I hope the new year brings so much fun for you and North.


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## Tihannah

11 days total vacation over the Christmas and New Years holiday and I swear it rained almost EVERY day! :-(

New Years day was the first time I got to ride since the last video and it KILLED me. Went to the barn every day to feed, clean stalls, and hang out with my lil man, but that was pretty much it. NY day was my last day of vacation, so a boarder friend decided she was gonna find us a trailer so we could haul to the local arena and ride. Another boarder was out of town, so we asked to use their 2 horse, but they weren't so keen on the idea, despite the arena being 3 miles down the road. We asked another boarder, but they were using their trailer that morning to move. So my friend, I'll call her Linda, asked another friend. Her daughter is 11 and owns the mare that pastures with North. The friend was happy to lend her trailer, but it turned out to be a stock trailer for hauling cows. Ehhh...

When her husband pulled up with the trailer, it looked real iffy, but they decided to see if their mare would load. Despite a 6ft ceiling, the mare walked in no problem. So we thought, it's right down the road so it may not be too bad. They decided to haul the mare over first and then come back for North. North is a couple inches taller than their mare so I still wasn't sure he would even load in that thing.

Before they even got there, the mare slipped and fell inside the trailer. Once they got to the arena, she was terrified and shaking and wouldn't unload. Also had a few scrapes and cuts from the fall, so they brought her back to the barn. It took us a good 45 minutes, treats, hay and feed to talk her out the trailer. She had a come apart at one point and ended up slamming her head on the ceiling a half dozen more times and getting a few more scrapes and cuts from the metal trailer, but we finally got her off and treated all her cuts. I was SOO glad I didn't try to get North in there. This mare is VERY laid back, so I know it would have been even worse with North.

But because of the whole incident and the mare getting hurt, Linda and her husband felt horrible for trying to haul the mare in that trailer, so yesterday they went out and bought a gorgeous 7ft 2 horse gooseneck with dressing room, sleep bay, and awning. She said no more asking people to borrow, or waiting for someone to give us a ride. From now on, North and Lou (the mare) could go anywhere we want! Lol. We are both so excited about the opportunities this gives us to go school, lesson and show at other places.

So anyways, since the mare had such a traumatic morning, we decided to ride in their pasture since it was pretty dry, and I offered to let her daughter ride North. Her face simply lit up with excitement. Lol. Although our horses are close in age, North is just better built all round for dressage. Her horse is built more like a hunter and has yet to learn bend, softening, or contact. So I thought it would be a good idea to let her ride North so she could learn what it felt like. North is a sweet horse, but he's not going to give you anything for free. Lol. The girl is 4'8 and probably 65lbs soaking wet and could barely keep North in a forward walk. It was like watching a toddler on a draft horse. Lol. I had to stay close and keep pushing him forward from the ground and then he'd try to just come in to me. She eventually got him up to a trot, but I had to have her keep her outside hand on the grab strap cause she doesn't have a steady hand yet. They had a few really good moments, but North is just way too smart and knew he could get away with quite a bit with her.

So at one point, I asked her to hop off and let me get him more warmed up. As soon as I got in the saddle, he knew the game had changed. Lol. He was brilliant. We did bend, counterbend, a little leg yield. He's getting SOOO much better with bending on left lead. I mean, he really felt fantastic, so I got off and had her get back on. More of the same. Lol. Plodding along, ignoring her leg. The kid knows. So after about 15 min, I told her she just needed more practice and we would definitely try again. She's just such a tiny thing and North has ever only been ridden by me and Helen. I hopped back on for another 10 minutes just o show him he wasn't getting away with anything and then we called it a day.

Below are just a few pics of her ride and at the end, I was standing and chatting with her mom when I felt him nuzzling my neck, so I gave him some smooches and my guy got the shot. I love him so much and omg...3 weeks until the clinic!!! And now we have a ride!! Lol.


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## Tazzie

We had to haul Izzie home in a livestock trailer, and it was such a nerve wracking experience. I made Nick drive super slow so she could keep her balance, but ugh!! How exciting they bought their own trailer though!! That will be SOOO nice!!! YAY! And awww, North! I love the pictures of him and you <3 gotta love when they just say "nope" to someone else trying. I'm sure the daughter will be ready to try him again later this year!


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## KigerQueen

you need the right stock trailer to use for horses. i have hauled my mare in one but it was like 8ft tall and VERY clean. my arab rides loose anyway because she tries to kill herself otherwise. That said luckily the mare did not kill herself hitting her head! have heard of that happening. we have helmets for our horses for when they go in shorter trailers.


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## Golden Horse

He is such a cutie....


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## Tihannah

What an amazing weekend! I'm talking clear blue skies, blinding sunshine, and highs in the mid 60's. It couldn't have been more perfect for riding. 

Saturday I rode with Linda's daughter again in our pasture. North was being a bit of a toddler and difficult. Not wanting to be forward, not bending, and just being completely uncooperative. So I suggested we take them on a short hack first. We hacked them on the outside perimeter of the barn and by the time we got back to our pasture, we was loose, relaxed, and bending again. We did a good 20 minute ride and I just basked in all the sunshine. Lol.

Sunday we decided to take the babies to the arena in the new trailer. Despite the craziness and what happened the other day, the mare and North both were fairly easy to load and unload. One of the barn friends, Alex, came with us to help the 11yr old school her mare and start teaching her bend. She's young, but teaches beginner kids. I think the more time we spend riding together, the more her mom is realizing that North is much farther along than their horse, and now wants to step up their training. I told her it's going to be difficult unless she gets someone to start riding their mare and teaching her so that they can then teach her daughter. She's just too young and tiny to understand feel and have the strength to get the horse to move off her seat and legs. 

Anyhow, as soon as we got the horses unloaded, we walked them around to get them settled with being there. Again, the mare could not have cared less about being in a new place, but North was a little uneasy and nervous. We walked them through the arena and out the other side and before I knew it, North had dropped and started rolling! The mare saw what he was doing and immediately followed suit! They were both covered in dirt and mud before we even rode! Lol. It was too cute and funny to even be mad about it.

Our ride was fantastic. North is just so much easier to school in an arena setting. With even footing and no distractions, he is just so much more steady and easy to work with. I could not have been more pleased with our ride. I then asked Alex if she'd be interested in cantering North for me. She does eventing and is used to going fast. Lol. She's never ridden North before and said she hoped she wouldn't get bucked off. I assured her it wouldn't happen. He didn't mind cantering, he just wasn't very balanced yet, so off they went.
She cantered him both directions in 2pt and it was great. Towards the end, it was more canter than gallop, and she was even able to sit a few strides. It was so great schooling them in there that we're going to try and go more often.

Below are pics and video from both days. Like I said, it was a really great weekend.


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## carshon

what great pics! North is just so handsome!


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## PoptartShop

That sounds like an amazing weekend!!   I'm so glad you got to get out & go to the arena. It sounds like North settled in just fine considering he rolled. LOL! What a silly boy. :lol: Love the pictures & videos! You guys look great. Love the stretching!

I love the one of you just taking in all the sunshine!

Being in an arena setting is a lot better. You have more control & it just makes things easier, less distraction. I hope you guys can go more often! I love that it's an indoor too - if it rains, you can still ride!

Aww, his canter looks good, unbalanced yes but that's ok!! Promise's is the same way. Baby stuff! It'll get better in time!! 

So happy you had such a nice weekend!! <3


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## Tihannah

I forgot to add a couple things!

I realize in our stretching video that he's a bit on the forehand and not forward enough, but I was okay with that because 
1. He's a baby 
2. He was reaching for the bit
Every positive step is a step in the right direction. We will continue to build on it. 

That girl came out to ride Forrest on Sunday. She loves him and wants to keep riding him, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to let her down. She handles him fairly well. Does not get in his mouth or try to force him to do anything. They spent most of the ride at the walk. But watching Forrest made me sad. He simply hates being ridden. Even when nothing is asked of him except to walk. He still fights you almost every stride and he couldn't wait to get her off. In fact, when we went to get him from the pasture and he realized it wasn't feeding time, he tried to run off. He's NEVER run from me.

On top of that, he just doesn't look great. He's lost so much muscle and top line from not being ridden. His weight has stayed good, but he still looks a shell of his former self. He's finished his EPM treatment, but frankly, I just haven't seen a big change, except that he looks like he's aged 10 years since he left me in July. Something is definitely still wrong with him physically (and mentally likely) and I just can't afford to figure it out.

When I brought him back, I had him on the oil supplement that I love, but it's gone up in price and its just too expensive to keep both horses on it. I took both of them off it for awhile, but just recently started North back on it. At this point, it would take A LOT of work and supplements and time to get him where he was 6 months ago, and he still wouldn't be rideable. And he doesn't want to be ridden or worked. Period. So how do I bring him back? 

So right now, I'm at a serious crossroads on what to do. Board and care for 2 horses is not easy. The vet is coming this week to do Coggins for North and I'm going to have him take a look at Forrest and assess his overall health.


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## PoptartShop

EXACTLY. Promise is the same way. She's just starting to stretch down into the contact. It's a step in the right direction. They're BABIES! They are learning how to use their bodies. Why rush things? I agree with you 100%.  No need to rush them.

Oh man about Forrest. :sad: I wish he didn't feel that way, because it sounds like that girl would be a good candidate for him. Sigh, poor guy. I know that's hard for you to see him like that. I hope the vet can give you some answers or point you in the right direction.  I wish there was a retirement place that could take him in, but I know it's hard to trust people and hard to find places like that. Crossing my fingers things get figured out, I know it's not easy caring for one horse, let alone TWO!


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## Golden Horse

Biggest piece of advice for you right now....any decisions about Forrest, take them with your vet, maybe your family, and your head. Everyone reading probably has their own ideal situation, but not one of us actually knows Forrest, and what it costing you financially and emotionally to support him. Make you decions, and know that we all have great sympathy for the position you and he are in.

As to North, I totally get it, slow and steady wins the game.


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## carshon

I agree about Forrest. You have done so much for this horse, you have made sacrifices and done everything right. But sometimes the damage is done. And retirement places and pasture homes all come with their own scary possibilities.

We are here for you and will support any and all decisions you make.


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## Tihannah

@Golden Horse , @carshon , and of course @PoptartShop THANK YOU for the support. I really appreciate all of your kind words.

After I posted that this morning, the girl who rode him sent me a text, and the realization hit me once again. She asked if she could take him on a 3 day trail ride out of town this weekend with some friends. :-/

And this is why I'm afraid to try and place him with anyone. He is in NO condition to go on an hours long trail ride for 3 days and she should have been able to see and feel that. And this is what would happen if I tried to place him with someone. They would try to force him to be a riding horse and do things he's not capable of doing and frankly doesn't want to do. And when they couldn't get their way with him, he would be mistreated, abandoned, or abused. I just can't live with that. I can't. 

I told her he is not ready for that, that the vet is coming out to look at him this week, and until I speak to him, I can't let her continue to ride him.


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## PoptartShop

I don't blame you at all. The 3 day trail ride would be torture for him. NO way. 
How did she not see that?! Or maybe she did but doesn't care. Ugh. People suck. :icon_rolleyes: A 3-day trail ride is a LOT, especially for him! She's nuts.

Yeah, definitely don't let her ride him until he sees the vet and you get some answers or direction. And if she gets upset, oh well. She should've known better than to even ask that!


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## DanteDressageNerd

I'm really sorry to hear about Forrest, as others have said you have gone through a lot to restore him to health. With EPM I think light work is really important to keep them fit, so they dont waste away and lose coordination but it really depends on the horse and the situation. When I did rehab, I saw improvement in the EPM horses after treatment. It took time to gain the musculature and coordination but when they did their quality of life improved imo because they could control their hind end and move in a free way. But they also weren't senior horses, even though they had had advanced EPM before treatment. The body of an older horse just isnt the same, they dont recover the same way. Some do but it's really hit and miss. I hope the vet has some ideas or can give you some good thoughts. I wonder if it's possible to start just basic things on the ground or doing trail type exercises with polls and turns on the forehand and turns on the haunches and some laterals steps. They're not to pressure him, the point is the mind-body connection of the laterals work. Maybe even just on the ground and maybe adding some games like having him seek objects or with the rope halter when you come in front of him that he turns to you and keeps his eyes on you and he moves where you point. Doesnt have to be taxing can all be at the walk, just something for the mind-body connection. He sounds depressed to me :-( maybe he's ready for the next step? I dont know but hope your vet can help.

Maybe the girl is just young and not perceptive? Most people dont particularly understand conditioning or horses and if she's young she might just not understand he can do a 3 day trip. Doesnt mean you should sign him over her to her but I think people people mean well in general, they're just not always aware. People are complicated and when I read something or hear something, I try to understand from their perspective to be fair and objective. Doesnt mean you trust people or have higher expectations of them, just a basic understanding. I agree. Most people want what they want and they dont care about the condition the horse is left in and they dont mind bullying or pushing a horse past breaking point. A lot of times I think people are just clueless and misguided, sometimes just mean but it doesnt sound like she is. Maybe just inexperienced? Special needs horses often dont fare well because most people cant afford or take care of them properly. I think there is an emotional component that most riders and trainers are simply clueless on. 

Glad North is doing so well, I can tell a huge difference in how you are when working with him vs the others. You seem so much happier, more self assured and confident. You're doing a really nice job, he's a cute kid. I think with babies a lot of the time it's the physical and mental maturity you're working with that takes more time. Living, riding and exposure is all new to them and they're still growing, so you cant really push them. Especially depending on the phase of growth and mental/emotional maturity theyre in. Just happy and easy but still clear parameters. Dont really have to worry about collection yet, small increases of pressure or expectation but not too much. Just can you keep rhythm, follow my position, do shallow loops, can you do a bit bigger or smaller trot, forward in the walk and regular in the canter, few lateral steps like shoulder fore, haunches fore and leg yield. Happy and fun ABCs kindergarten for horses


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## Tihannah

@DanteDressageNerd - 

The biggest things are time and resources. I work 9-5p M-F, sometimes even later, so during the week I get to the barn around 530-6p and it's already dark. Im also at a self care barn, so most days, I am just feeding, cleaning stalls, grooming and turnout and don't get home till around 8pm. If I try to get a quick ride in, it's even later. So the only REAL time I have to devote is on the weekends. When I had him, I worked him 4-5 days a week.

The other part is resources. Ideally he would need to be on joint, vitamin E, and muscle support supplements to get him started. But you already know, when he was healthy, I threw everything under the sun at him, short of taking him to the university to have a full body scan done. We did SI injections, TMI injections, monthly chiro, osteopath, acupuncture, daily stretch routines, pentosan, previcox, multiple supplements, bloodwork, fecal, several lameness exams. We even gave him bute for a week to see if there would be any change. NONE. In addition we worked with the natural horsemanship trainer, tried at least 20 different bits, hackamores, just going in a halter, countless training aids - nothing changed the way he went under saddle. The best I could get was a relaxed walk on a totally loose rein.

I will never know what happened to Forrest in his life to make him this way and it will always make me sad that I couldn't make it better for him. But what I don't want to do is keep pushing him to become something he will never be. If he was 8, 10, or 12? It may be worth it. But with him being at least 20 now, I have to ask myself who it would be really benefiting. I feel like he's been trying to tell me since I got him, and it's just taken way too long for me to actually hear him, because like everyone else who's had him, I could only hear what I wanted and what my hopes were for him. :-(


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## DanteDressageNerd

No I agree with you. Its not worth doing more diagnostics, I think you have gone above and beyond your call and provided him with the best life possible. I dont think you should feel any shame or sadness when you have done everything you could. It's not worth investing all the supplements or the expense, especially with kids who are yet to go to college. You have to be fair to yourself too. You have loved and provided for him in every way you could, it is enough. Maybe the desired outcome didnt come but you provided him with love and that is very special. 

I understand having a special needs horse, no one can understand unless they work with that individual but everyone thinks they have the magic solution or know how to fix the horse or somehow knows the horse better than you do and then when they try end up being humbled the same way or cant get a quarter what you can because there is nothing to compare to them. I dont think you ever mistreated Forrest or were unfair, I think you did your best as did everyone else whose tried. Sometimes that has to be enough even if the outcome isnt what you wanted. You gave him and are giving him a good life. Special needs horses are lucky if they ever find someone who invests in them and loves them.


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## SilverMaple

Special-needs horses who cannot or will not get better are also lucky if their owner is strong enough to do the right thing by them when all options are exhausted. I feel for you. Whatever your decision, I know it will be the right one for Forrest. I have a horse with some mental issues. When I can no longer care for him, I will put him down rather than subject him to the uncertainty of a new home, and the specter of the abuse he so recently escaped from. There are worse things than a gentle death. I think either way, Forrest is very lucky to have had you.


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## Tihannah

@DanteDressageNerd

I was not disagreeing with anything you said. I was just clarifying my situation in addressing his needs and why it's so difficult. Also why past attempts at making him better makes going forward seem even more fruitless. 



> Maybe the girl is just young and not perceptive? Most people dont particularly understand conditioning or horses and if she's young she might just not understand he can do a 3 day trip. Doesnt mean you should sign him over her to her but I think people people mean well in general, they're just not always aware. People are complicated and when I read something or hear something, I try to understand from their perspective to be fair and objective. Doesnt mean you trust people or have higher expectations of them, just a basic understanding. I agree. Most people want what they want and they dont care about the condition the horse is left in and they dont mind bullying or pushing a horse past breaking point. A lot of times I think people are just clueless and misguided, sometimes just mean but it doesn't sound like she is. Maybe just inexperienced? Special needs horses often dont fare well because most people cant afford or take care of them properly. I think there is an emotional component that most riders and trainers are simply clueless on.


She is young (early 20s I believe?) but with a good amount of experience with horses. She rides fairly decent and has worked with quite a few green horses, so I thought she'd be a good fit. But there is not a lot of "great" horse management/care with people in my area it seems. Over and over I see horses being ridden lame, out of shape, and being asked to do more than they should. Horses with clear hind end issues are being jumped 3ft and then called jerks because they're bucking after every jump. There's also a lot of miseducation. I heard about one girl at my old barn who's plan to combat her horse's lameness issue was to give him a previcox before she rode. That's not how previcox works. It's not like a tylenol you take when you get a headache and doesn't work if you only give it to them before you ride. But yea, it just seems fairly common in my area to just "ride them through it".

Regarding North, thank you. He is a super fun kid to work with.  Tried to get a ride in last night, but it was dark, most of the horses were already turned out, and I just could not get his head in the game, so I called it after only 15 minutes. He's a good boy and tries really hard for me, so I think it's okay to give in sometimes. I love spending time with him either way. Oh, and new accomplishment. He now stands after mounting for me to get situated! Lol. He used to just walk off as soon as I swung my leg over, but now he will stand, let me get my stirrups and wait for me to cue him. Pretty proud of that.  He will be 4 in just a few months so I'm pretty excited about the coming year and introducing more things.


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## Tihannah

During the worst years of my marriage, the stress and anxiety would get so bad that it seriously impacted my brain function. My brain would often get foggy, I couldn't retain stuff, and my short term memory would get increasingly worse. In the years since my separation and divorce, it has gotten increasingly better, but there are still periods where it can get pretty bad. I often wonder if I'm not a guaranteed candidate for dementia later on in life.

Work this week has been brutal, and the effects have taken me back to those days. I shed a lot of tears this week in sheer frustration about my current situation and the fact that my only choice is just to continue to push through it and do the best I can. The other day, a coworker yelled at me in disbelief because I couldn't remember the server and codes to get to a data table that we had just looked at the day before. He thought I was joking about my short term memory issue and just making excuses. My mind draws total blanks under stress and becomes so foggy that it's hard to get anything done and it's frustrating. But him (also a good friend) yelling at me in disbelief, caused me to just shut everything down and call it a day.

The only thing that has gotten me through this week is being able to go to the barn after work. At the barn, I don't have to think through complex code or deadlines or pressure from executives. I'm not buried and I can BREATHE. Riding clears my head and blows away the stress and anxiety, if only for a couple hours. But the sheer relief it gives me... Yesterday I drove to the barn just sobbing to myself and when I left, I left smiling and singing along to my favorite tunes and I never even rode. Just spent time with my horses and knocked out some barn chores. It has never been more evident how much I need this small part of my life.

Tonight I rode North. After our unsuccessful ride a couple days ago, I honestly wasn't sure it would go well, but he was SO great. From the first few strides, I knew it was a going to be a good ride. He was with me. We worked on bending and counterbending at the walk and then walk, halt, trot transitions . He was so with me. And it didn't take long for him to anticipate the changes, so that I had to switch things up. But I gave him lots of praise, and he loved it, and tried harder. We didn't ride more than 20 minutes, but it felt like we accomplished so much. I hopped off and smothered him with rubs, hugs, and kisses and then he quietly followed me back to the barn.

Without a doubt, this horse is my once in a lifetime. He is so smart and kind and eager to please that I can't even wrap my head around it sometimes. He's like a big puppy dog that just wants to do the right thing. He listens when I talk to him from the saddle and its amazing to watch him actively work for the positive praise and correct himself when I verbally correct him. I seriously can't believe how lucky I was to find him. He is perfect for me. Perfect.


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## PoptartShop

I understand completely. I'm sorry you aren't having such a good week. :sad: Things can get to be too much sometimes & it all happens at once.

I suffer with anxiety, and it makes me shut down at times. It's more of an internal thing, so people don't 'see' it. But it's there.

But...once I get to the barn, it all kinda, goes away. It's like therapy. I know if I'm having a crappy day, I will be at the barn afterwards and it'll be OK.

That's how it SHOULD be. You need that! I know at your other barn it wasn't like that, it was stressful and you didn't really like being there. But now you are at a much better place, and it is making a huge difference. <3 And of course, you have North. Makes everything better. I'm glad you decided to ride, despite your bad day. 

I'm glad you ended up having a good ride! There are going to be 'bad' days and good days with these babies. There are days where we wanna cry (I remember talking to you the other night about my little moment with Promise), but then the next day goes much better. All that matters. You and North are meant to be. Period. He is your heart horse, and I love it!!! 

I'm excited for what's in store this year for you two!!!


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## Rainaisabelle

I am very sad to read about your anxiety but I am glad the horses are helping you loads!


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## carshon

My husband and I were just talking about the horse therapy. He had a wonderful lesson yesterday and talked about how that one weekly ride (it is mid winter here) just carries him through the next few days. He suffers from depression and for the past 15 years or so has kept the worst of it at bay - but I will say that horses and in particular the one he has now - are a life line for him

Glad you had a good ride!


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## DanteDressageNerd

That is very sad. I think that's everywhere to be honest and really varies barn to barn. I think in the US in general from what I've seen people will spend more on diagnostics and invest more in the individual horse. From what I've seen in Denmark, as well as Germany people push them through it. The horses are fit and if a horse is clearly off, they dont push but if the saddle doesnt fit or the horse has ulcers or that sort of a thing. It's more of a well he just has to get over it or throw draw reins on it. And then I've also seen people go to the other extreme and try to diagnose there horse with A, B, C and the problem is that they're not pushing through or addressing the issues. It's a balance. Sometimes I think people just want to do what they want to do and dont care about the longevity of the horse. Lot of those top world class stables are like that, they run horses into the ground and few horses stay sound after the abuse they take. It makes me sick. Not all international stables are like that, the one I worked at wasnt like that but I know of a few whose programs are built off of super talented, high quality horses and they just push and push, inject and inject until the horse breaks down and is dead lame. But nobody cares they just see the medals, ribbons and trophies and to them horses are a dime a dozen and they dont really care. Just see a horse as a platform for their career. And that's what makes Carl and Charlotte so unique. They invest in horses the rest of mainland Europe wouldnt look at twice. Guarentee in mainland Europe nobody would have thought anything of Valegro and if developed under them wouldnt have become anything special. And their program is dedicated to the longevity and care of the horses, not just use them until they break.

For instance I can understand if a horse is mostly sound but something seems not 100% so the person tries bute for a week to see if it makes a difference. Sometimes can help isolate what is wrong but to use it as a mask or to push a horse harder I dont understand. To me it's miserable working with a horse who clearly doesnt enjoy their work. 

I also think a lot of people are misguided and dont really have anyone in the area to really help and guide them or a trainer who really knows or they dont listen to the trainer who does. Or sometimes the trainer doesnt say what a person wants to hear so they fire them. 

But that's a shame, so she should know better. 

I know the feeling. I think sometimes it's hard to relate trauma and how it changes you. I still struggle with some residual from my exs, that kind of trauma you just cant to explain to anybody because it affects something deep and internal. Anxiety and stress can mess with the brain's ability to maintain memory, if people fail to understand that then that's a shame. I think empathy can be really difficult for some people. I also think people think with mental health you can just steam roll through or push yourself into overcoming it and mental health doesnt work like that. It isnt an excuse or a mental fabrication. I think it's much harder for people to understand what they cant see it or feel it. The worst feeling in the world is when your mind becomes your prison and you cant control it. Management is possible but very tricky.

Short article on stress and memory
https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/memory-medic/201612/thwart-stress-effects-memory

But horses are good therapy. And I'm so glad you have North. You really deserve this and a horse who you enjoy being around everyday and can learn on, have fun and have a deep emotional connection with. Nothing like it in the world. That's a blessing


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## Tihannah

Another great weekend with my little puff and stuff. 

We finally got our makeshift dressage arena set up. Helen brought letters, buckets and pvc pipes from her parents house for the corners and I picked up some cheap orange and yellow cones I found at Academy for the sides. We hope to make it a little better later, but for now it's working okay.

I've come to realize that North is definitely an arena horse. He just works better when he has a defined area to work in. He's less distracted and more focused on what I'm asking. When I ride him in the pastures, it can take 20 min before I can get him focused and paying attention. He's a baby, so he's easily distracted. In the front riding area, there's tons of jumps, cavaletti's, barrels, etc. so he tends to be all over the place checking things out or snorting at suspicious pink crossrails. Lol. I've also realized that he's better when we don't ride with other horses. It just seems to be too much stimulant for him when other horses are working around him. He also prefers to have a human on the ground nearby when we school. I can't explain it, but he trusts us and feels more secure when someone is nearby. Like when we were doing the tarps. He didn't care that his pasture mate walked over them with no issue. It was when the girl's mom walked over them that he thought, "Okay, I can do this." Lol. He's so cute.

So yea, having our makeshift arena has made it really fun. He just understands that we're working now and pays attention. We rode in it for the first time Saturday morning and it was a really good session. Sunday we had our first lesson with Helen since before the Christmas holidays and she was ecstatic with both of our progress. She loves North so much and can't stop remarking how lucky I was to find him. "He is just a REALLY nice horse." She swears that her next horse will be a baby. Lol. I think she agrees with me that the journey is 10 times easier when you're starting with a clean slate as long as the temperament and willingness are there.

So advantages to having the arena is, of course, having boundaries - corners and lines to work from. We really worked on keeping him consistent in changes in the bend, keeping the bend on straight lines, and using the boundaries for changes of direction. For the first time since probably August, I put my spurs back on. Helen watched my video from Saturday and said I'm using too much leg to get what I want, and especially on the left side, I've just got too much going on. It's causing me to lose my position and for my lower leg to be way to active. He's stiffer on the left, so it's harder to get the bend and get him into my outside rein.

It was really a big difference with the spurs. I tend to be more conscious of what my lower leg is doing when I wear spurs because I don't want to poke him unnecessarily, so it really helped me to keep my lower leg more still. When I need a lot of leg (which I tend to with my lazy pony), I have the tendency to turn my toes outwards and really push with first my calf, then my heel. It's a bad habit and something I will be working to re-train. Helen showed me that I need to keep my toes pointed forward and kinda wrap my leg under him and squeeze. Then if I needed more reminder, I could touch with the spur. But having the spurs made a big difference on keeping him forward. He knew they were there and really worked to give me what I asked. I was worried that I would be clumsy with my lower leg and hit him too much and get some objections, but it didn't happen. 

Towards the end of our lesson, Helen wanted me to try cantering him, but I said, "You first!" Lol. After hopping on and giving it a few tries, she agreed that I was right to ask her to try first. It's just so hard to get the canter together with him. She started on right lead and he'd pick up left lead. Then switched to left lead, and he picked up right lead. Then cross cantering! Not to mention that he really struggles with turning in the canter and to him, canter means go fast! Lol. After several tries, they finally started to get it, and I was so proud of him cause you could see how hard he was trying to figure it out.

Below is a short video with clips from our lesson and then Helen cantering North at the end. You'll notice how much she pats him. He really loves to be told he's doing well and responds so positively to it. Did I mention how freakin cute he is?? Lol.


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## Tihannah

Just thought I'd include a clip from our Saturday ride with the issues notated that we worked on in our lesson Sunday. This will be fun to go back and look at in a year or two!


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## Tihannah

*Omg!!!*

I've gotten in touch with Forrest's former owner! Not the girl I bought him from, but the girl that owned him prior to her!

Apparently a mutual friend of theirs was at a show last weekend and ran into her and she asked about Forrest and asked for my contact info. She reached out to me through Instagram! We've just started chatting, but OMG, I wish I had found her long ago! She told me she bought him from the western barn in Alabama thinking she could rehabilitate him. She said he has a very long and unclear past. The guy in Alabama told her he was 12, but after her vet and dentist looked at him, they told her he was much older. She said she tried for 2 years and got nowhere with him. :-(

I feel kinda bad because I was sure this was the girl that had ruined him, but apparently he was already ruined when she got him, and like me, just wanted to make him a normal horse. Like me, she said she really loved him and he was such a sweet horse, but thought it was best just to sell him on and hope someone else could make him better. I guess through second hand information they told her that I had made good progress with him and that he was doing well. :-(

Still chatting with her and hoping to find out what else she knows about his history. I will update as soon as I hear more!

Oh! And almost forgot, chiro came out today to do North again. She said his neck is getting better on the left side, but we will have to just keep chipping away at it. But the rest of him, she said? AMAZING! She said his shoulders were incredible - so free and loose. She said, "I don't know what kind of saddle you bought for him, and I don't care how much it cost! It was worth EVERY penny!" She pushed hard down every inch of his back and not a single flinch! And then his hind? She said amazing as well. She said she RARELY comes across a horse that tests that well in his back or his hind. She said there's usually SOMETHING! Lol. She said that when we get the rest of that knot worked out in his back that North is just gonna be amazing under saddle.


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## Tihannah

Tihannah said:


> She said that when we get the rest of that knot worked out in his back that North is just gonna be amazing under saddle.


I meant to say knot in his "neck" not his back! Lol.

Anyhow, had a long conversation with Forrest's former owner. Her name was June and she was really sweet and her story with him sounded almost identical to mine, except she only did jumping with him. She said he would jump anything you pointed him at. Like me, she said she tried everything with him and could never get through. And like me, her vet could never find anything wrong with him. She said she could never find out anything on his history and the guy she bought him from stopped answering her calls just like he did with me. But he'd told her that Forrest was once a 3rd level dressage horse. She said when she bought him, her vet aged him to be at least 17 and that was almost 4 years ago. :-(

We talked about his current state, what happened when I tried to rehome him, and what we felt was right for his future. We both agreed that trying to rehome him would probably end with him in another bad situation. With everything we both saw from him, we agreed that at some point in his life, he was seriously mentally damaged. How and why it happened will always be a mystery, but there was some comfort in knowing we both loved him and tried everything we could to make him better. I told her I would update her after the vet came and let her know what how things went. 

Below are a few of the pics she sent me. The last one, she said, is the most she ever got from him as far as dropping his head and he was in a bitless bridle. I laughed and told her that was the same for me. That picture is the most I could ever get from him. Our poor, sweet, damaged Forrest.


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## lostastirrup

She looks like a good sympathetic rider, I wonder what went wrong and when it did for poor Forrest. 

I think 90% of us that have sat a pile of horses think we can fix just about anything given enough time, but sometimes it's not the case. When I hear "contact issues" that someone claims they can't fix, I always think it's not the horse it's the rider, and so many people are like me, and often we're right- So I can see the beautiful Forrest being passed around because what on the surface seems like "just a rider problem I can fix" and it ends up being a mental/trauma thing and the horse is unsuitable for the work.


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## PoptartShop

Awww, she sounds like a good person. I'm glad you could get in contact with her and you guys could share your experiences with him, they sound very similar. Seems like you both tried to help him and figure it out. Poor Forrest, it is a mystery. 
It reminds me kinda of my old lease horse. He was about 25. He had major issues, I could fix a lot of them, but some were just 'stuck' there and it was actually all from his owner, nothing I could've done to help him with certain things. I just had to accept it. :sad: He was mentally messed up because of her.

It makes me so mad that people can do that to horses (not just people). Sounds like he's been passed around a bit (before her) and who knows what people have done to him. 

Forrest is a sweet boy. He is very lucky to have you. I am anticipating the vet visit, I hope you can get some answers/it'll give you some direction. Crossing my fingers!


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## carshon

I am so glad you got in contact with her and to know that Forrest has had love in the past. Again, we all know you will do whatever is best for him.


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## DanteDressageNerd

That's really amazing you were able to reconnect with the former owner and she could share the story.

I've worked with a few horses pretty psychologically traumatized. The one that reminds me of Forrest is Frankie's mom. She was owned by a lady who had her as a 4yr old in a double bridle because supposedly she bolted off. What I think happened is she had a big canter with an ambitious, controlling rider (I know the lady, not sympathetic at all) all ambition and no compassion. Just runs her horses into the ground. Had her trainer pushing her 5yr old to school PSG. Which he did but he's broken now, saint of a horse. Anyways when we got Gracie she has callouses the size of my palm from spurs on either side and the BIGGEST underneck muscle I've ever seen on any horse, no topline, no trust in the rider and was just miserable when ridden. We let her rest and have two babies then tried to bring her back and she just couldnt take any pressure without losing it. She was explosive and unpredictable. She acted hot but I dont think she was AT ALL by nature. Neither of her babies were hot and she was perfect to go trail and hacking with. Where there was no pressure, she was perfect. Judging from how her previous owner rides and how she was trained, I absolutely think the "heat" was psychological trauma. I dont think she was hot at all. Sweet, sweet mare. We fixed a lot of issues but she was never going to be a dressage horse.

Another mare was made as a 5yr old schooling 3rd level and sure some can handle it like Frankie but not that mare and they did it wrong. They just pressured and drilled for movements and bullied her until she was bitter and angry. She used to lunge at the saddle teeth bared when she saw it near her back. 

Psychological issues take the most work and sadly you can fix a lot but you cant totally reverse total damage. I wonder if Forrest received some of the type of training I've seen at some barns with the draw reins abused and pressure and mechanically being made with whips behind and pressure, pressure, pressure if a horse asks a question. Spinning them around in a tight circle kicking them with the spur and spanking them with the whip. Then the rider makes a mistake and left right ripping on the bridle and spanking. The horses I've seen really shut down in those situations and become rocks. It's like when you're in an abusive relationship and just go to another place because you dont know what else to do and when people try to lure you to trust, you want to but canter. Cant let go of the trauma. And sadly I've seen more dressage horses with emotional and psychological trauma than hunters or jumpers or eventers. I cant speak for western, I've heard the western pleasure horses are pretty far gone from a guy who used to train them professionally and worked for a top trainer. But lots of bad apples out there and a lot of good ones too. Just sometimes hard to figure out which is which. 

I saw a lot of things in Germany that made me cry for the horses but seen worse than that in the states. Some people just dont care, a horse either fits in their program or it doesnt and they're not willing to adjust their program. So they either destroy the horse and it flunks out and they dont care. People Ive seen like that have all kinds of money. It means nothing to them to throw out a horse like Forrest. And those are the same people who are winning the junior-young rider classes, competing at nationals etc. Can sit real pretty on a made horse or something easy that doesnt ask question but put them on a challenge and they're useless. Big pet peeve, been around it a lot. Riders with huge egos and no feel and it's the horses that pay. I find it a million times more pleasant to watch a beginning rider with a good nature and kindness to the horse than a rider going to nationals whose made their way by ruining horses. 

She looks like a kind and empathetic rider. Im glad you found her.


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## Tihannah

I'm not a great rider (though I constantly try to improve), so in the saddle, 99.9% of the time, I blame myself. Last year when I rode Helen's horse, Winnie, in a clinic. She's competed at 3rd and schooled through 4th level. We picked up a left lead canter and we were ALL OVER the place! Lol. It was a mess and I kept saying, 'Sorry Winnie!!", cause I knew it was me. I'm weak on my left side and couldn't organize her because I wasn't organized. When I had Tess and rides were bad, I would hop of and be like, "Ugggghhh! I SUCK!" Lol.

I honestly think egos get in the way in this sport far too often, and the horses pay the price. I think every horse can teach you something no matter if you been riding 6 months or 30 years. I feel like it's a never ending journey of gaining knowledge and understanding and once we deem ourselves as "know it all" or been there done that, then we do a disservice not only to ourselves, but the horses as well. There is always more to learn.

The girl I got Tess from is coming down to ride in our clinic next weekend. Her parents bought her a $40K schoolmaster and she's hoping to break into 3rd level this year. She's 13 and just started doing dressage in late 2017. I've watched her ride in videos and think she is well on her way to being a good rider, but she is not where her parents think she's at. She wants to ride North when she comes down. I think it will be good for her. She can ride a schoolmaster, yes. A green baby? Ehhh...we shall see. Lol.


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## PoptartShop

That is so very true. Most people focus on their egos rather than what is best for the horse. Or people go on & on about how much they know or who they've trained with, yet they don't realize they are NOT their trainers, and it doesn't make them any better. 
All horses can definitely teach you something. They sure know how to humble you, too. :lol: Can't get too ahead of yourself in this sport, which a lot of people don't understand. 

Wow, a $40K schoolmaster?! :O Fancy fancy for a 13yr old! I think if she rides North it'll be good for her...it'll definitely be a challenge for her.  Which may be what she needs. He's gonna make her WORK for it! :lol:


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## LoriF

Is Forrest a good boy when it comes to being ridden with no contact? Maybe he can be someones trail horse that is not going to try to put the demands on him that is required with other sports.


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## Tihannah

LoriF said:


> Is Forrest a good boy when it comes to being ridden with no contact? Maybe he can be someones trail horse that is not going to try to put the demands on him that is required with other sports.


When I say no contact, I mean totally on the buckle. If he feels you pick up the reins in the slightest, then he's going up and forward. And he doesn't respond well to seat cues and he's VERY forward. The one day we took them on a hack for 30 min or so, I was sore for 2 days afterwards because it took everything I had to keep him under control and on the buckle.

So basically imagine trying to trail ride a 17h horse with no steering and no brakes if he decides to go above a walk with huge strides that toss you out of the saddle. The girl I bought him from bought him for just that purpose. For her husband to trail ride. He was too much and he couldn't handle him.


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## Tihannah

So I'm all over the place this week, but I really want to make sure that I document things to look back on in the years to come with North.

Left work early yesterday and made it to the barn to get a ride in before the sun went down. I rode him to the front riding area for the first time without anyone accompanying us. Usually I have either someone on the ground walking with us or someone else riding their horse. Helen was up there giving a lesson, so I decided to give it a shot because I wanted to ride in the arena. Easy peasy. He paused for a moment like, "Wait, we're going too far..." But I patted and talked to him just to reassure him that all was okay and he went on without further hesitation.

Helen hung around for a few minutes after her lesson just to chat while we rode and then later after she left, Alex came with another girl, just to do some lungework with another horse. So we were never really alone. For some reason, when I asked, he didn't want to pick up the trot. I asked again, baby kick out. Huh?? Asked more firmly, slightly bigger kick out. Helen was shocked. I said, "Hey! I asked for trot!" He picked it up with no more objection. Not sure what that was about. Rest of the ride went really well. We were killing our bends in the corners! Little bit of leg yielding from quarter line to wall. Halts off my seat are almost solid. We'd do a set of exercises, I'd get a good halt, then pat, praise, and give him a peppermint. He LOVES that. Then we'd do another set and he was even more on top of his game. Just REALLY paying attention and trying to give what I asked. 

So there we are coming out of our corner and trotting up the long side on left bend and out of nowhere, he leaps through the air, bucks, and takes off in a canter. The funny part is that I didn't feel frightened at all and remained very calm through it, but as I was trying to bring him back, cause it was a little crazy and happening so fast, I could feel myself starting to lose my seat and thought, "Oh geez, I'm about to eat dirt again and this is gonna be bad." But just as I began to slip, he came back and to a halt. I mean like immediately. I adjusted my seat and pat and praised him. And I swear, I think he felt me losing it, and stopped to save me from coming off. The last time I came off him, he just stood there watching me until I was able to pick myself up off the ground, and when I did, he made that flubber noise he makes when he's happy to see me and came over and immediately nuzzled me like he was sorry.

My friend Alex and her friend were standing nearby and I yelled, "What the heck just happened???" She said as we came out of the corner and up the long side, a squirrel came running up behind us and darted up the tree next to us. I guess North thought it was going to eat us. Lol. Alex congratulated me on keeping my seat and said I handled it really well. I was just grateful I didn't come off. This old body clearly can't handle falls off a horse anymore! We did another short trot set around the arena just to keep it like nothing ever happened. When I reached the far side, I saw that **** squirrel come down out of the tree and shoot across the arena again, so I called it, and patted him on a job well done. Once was enough and apparently the little ****** felt like messing with us! lol

So yea, another accomplishment down for the week. My seat is DEFINITELY getting better!


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## PoptartShop

Oooh, North was feeling himself yesterday! :lol: Baby moments! Kicking out like that! LOL. 

It definitely sounds like you are getting better with your seat! I love it! Using your seat is important, and especially if you can make your horse slow down or halt with it. It makes things easier. You don't have to work 'as hard' when coming down from a trot/walk to get them to slow down or stop. It kinda becomes second nature. And he is working off the praise, so he knows he is doing a good job!  He wouldn't let you fall! That squirrel better stay away. :lol: 

Now you know how much better your seat is becoming. Even though you of course didn't wanna feel like you were gonna fall, now you know that you are more balanced! 

Such a good update! <3


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## Rainaisabelle

Ooo baby moment! They’re almost hilarious to be honest ! And cute. Theo has them when he’s had enough and I always laugh about them!


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## Tihannah

The vet came yesterday...we laid Forrest to rest. :-(

This is not the vet I used for my EPM treatment. I have one that takes care of all maintenance stuff and one that deals with more serious issues. This was my maintenance vet, so he hadn't seen him since before I rehomed him when he was still at my old barn. Prior to treatment, I'd consulted him about the EPM on the phone, but I didn't tell him the backstory. He was a bit shocked when he saw Forrest's condition, because I kept him in top condition prior to him leaving. When I say he looked like he'd aged 10 years or more since July, I'm not even kidding.

I told him what happened when I rehomed him, how he started to look better when I first got him back, the EPM treatment, and then his swift decline in the past couple months. When I went to get him from the pasture, he moved so slow and sluggish, and my vet could see it right away. Helen and Alex were there and they recounted what they've seen with him as well. We talked through everything and then he (my vet) just gave it to me straight. He said, "Tina, you've done everything you could possibly do for this horse. I've rarely seen a great ending for senior horses that were passed on. Heck even with the younger horses. One day they're with this person, 6 months later I see them at another place, a year later they're with someone else. With seniors, especially ones who can't be ridden anymore, they end up in bad spots or on their way to slaughter. I think giving him a peaceful end right here with you is the best thing you could do for him." :-(

We walked him to his resting spot, I kissed him, told him how much I loved him, and that things would be really nice for him on the other side. I felt like he knew. I can't explain why. The vet wouldn't let me watch. He said it could be traumatic depending on how the horse reacted, so he waited until we left. We buried him in the perfect spot under some beautiful fir trees behind one of the pastures. The vet met us back at the barn and said he went easy. He gave me a big hug and thanked me for making the right decision for him.

I'm okay. One minute I'm fine, the next minute I'm sobbing, but I know this was the best thing for him. Helen and Alex were great and right there with me the whole time and I feel better knowing that he is still there at the barn with me and I never have to worry about him being mistreated again. I truly wish more than anything that I could have made him better, but at least I could give him love and some peace. :-(


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## Golden Horse

Huge hugs from me. 

Thank you for making the tough decision for Forrest, and we all know that you did everything you could to make a happy horse. It is the hardest thing that we can ever do, and the most blessed. He was not happy any more, you knew that, everyone knew that. Now he is at peace, and you can also be peaceful in your mind knowing how hard you tried, how much love, time and money you invested in trying to turn him around. 

RIP Forrest.


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## egrogan

I’m glad sweet Forrest had the peaceful end he deserved. It’s beautiful how you said he’ll always be right there with you-what a wonderful thing to have. I know it must have been a tough decision but thankfully you have such a strong support system. Goodbye to Forrest and lots of hugs to you.


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## horselovinguy

I have some reading to do...
I don't know the whole story but reading your "goodbye to Forrest" tells me that you did for this horse more than many would do and you did what was needed and best for this animal.
You chose the hard way for your heart and the path of easy release and love for Forrest to cross over to a new existence of pain-free and healthy a life in heaven.
A very hard walk is the last walk together...

Many hugs to you and some tears of understanding from this corner...
RIP Forrest... :gallop:
_hlg._


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## carshon

God Speed Forrest - you did the right thing. He was loved - up until that very last nano second here on this earth


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## sarahfromsc

You did the best for him. Doesn’t make it easier, I know, but I agree with your decision.


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## lostastirrup

Sending you horsey hugs. 
That's a really hard decision. But I think that he had the best life possible for you. Animals don't think about "how long they have left" they live in the moment, react in the moment, and enjoy the moment. So I'm glad he had so many wonderful, well fed, happy moments with you.


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## knightrider

How difficult for you. I'm sure you did the right thing. I hope you find peace. You gave Forrest a good life. ((((Hugs)))))

Someone once said, "Horses don't care about seeing their grandchildren grow up." For some reason, that resonates with me. I also had to put down my beautiful Sereno due to EPM. It sucks.


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## Tihannah

Thank you all for the kind words. It is appreciated more than you know. I cut a piece of his tail to keep before the end. I spoke to his former owner last night and let her know that he had passed and she thanked me for loving and caring for him. I may send her a piece of what I saved. 

We went to the barn this afternoon and it felt so strange. I kept looking towards his pasture expecting to see him there. His pasture mate was in his stall, but looked so sad today. He is a horse with a big personality and greets everyone as they walk into the barn with nickers and tongue wagging. He just stood at the back of his stall quietly. I brought hay down from the hay loft and since I have to pass his stall, he usually nickers and tries to grab a bite. He never moved from his spot on the wall. He still had a pile of hay in his stall untouched, which is VERY unlike him. I texted his owner to let her know he was acting strangely and not eating his hay. I wondered if he knew Forrest was gone. They were best buds. :-(

I tried to ride North today, but my heart just wasn't in it, and everything felt off. Tomorrow may be a better day...


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## Rainaisabelle

Like I said on Facebook I’m very proud of you, it’s a hard decision but at the end of the day you’re the one who knows him best and knows the situation the best so I know you made the right decision and I’m glad he spent his last day with someone who has showed him so much care and love


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## NavigatorsMom

Such a hard decision to make and I feel for you, Tina. You really did well by Forrest though. There are so many people who wouldn't have taken such care in trying to find him a better home, wouldn't have taken him back in. Many would have just sent him along and hoped that he ended up somewhere nice. He was very lucky to have ended up with you and I'm sure he was thankful to have you. I know it is a hard thing, but I think you did the right thing for him. Hugs and healing prayers to you <3


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## PoptartShop

Huge hugs. I am so sorry Tina. :sad: You did the right thing though, and he was very, very fortunate to live out his last days with you, in peace and happiness. You cared for him and gave him a good life, a life he deserved.
Your post brought tears to my eyes. I know it is never easy to make this decision. May Forrest rest peacefully. <3 I am glad you kept a piece of him, and I think it would be nice to give the other girl some too, so she has something as well to remember him by.
Omg, that must be heartbreaking to see his pasture mate like that. :sad: They know.  

It will get better day by day, I understand completely. Going to the barn and not seeing him will be very hard. But you did the right thing, and he went peacefully, knowing that he was loved and cared for. I am so glad he was able to live his last days with you and nobody else.


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## phantomhorse13

Take the time you need to grieve. Just because you did the right thing, it doesn't mean it was the easy thing. :hug:


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## LoriF

I'm really sorry about Forrest. I hope that you start to feel better soon. I've been in these shoes and it's not easy.


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## KigerQueen

You did the right thing. I would have done the same in your situation. He knew he was loved and was well taken care off at the end. He will never suffer again.


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## Tihannah

Managed to get a ride in last night after work. The clinic is in 4 days and I SO want to impress John with my new pony and am uber excited for what he can teach us. I think it's been almost a year since he was last here. He works with a lot of young, green horses and helps develop and train them up the levels. His eye for seeing through each individual horse is incredible and I'm anxious to his hear his feedback on both me and North. Both days are jam packed with rides with Saturday starting at 6:15a and ending at 6:15p with only a 45 min lunch break. Sunday is pretty much the same, just ending a little earlier so John can catch his flight out. Yet still, a lot of people couldn't get a spot and are pretty ****ed about it. It was overbooked 2 months out.

North started the ride being a bit of a brat, of course. This seems to be his thing when he's had too many days off in a row. Again, as soon as I asked for him to walk forward, he kicked out, then slowly moved forward. I asked for more forward, and he kicked out again. I asked, "What's your problem??" We stayed at the walk for about 10 min just doing bending exercises and trying to get him loosened up. When I asked for the trot, he gave it, but it was more like a slow jog and when we'd go into a turn and I'd ask for the bend to get him off the inside shoulder, and he'd drop to a walk, like he didn't feel like it. He did this 2 or 3 times before I'd had enough, put my firm Mom voice on and said, "NORTH! Knock it off!" and legged him back into the trot. Like always, his demeanor changed, and he went to work. We did a set of walk, trot, halts, change of direction, backing up, just moving quickly off my leg. It was good, so we stopped, praise and a peppermint. After that, he was golden. He was forward, listening, bending, soft and round.

I don't know how I managed to find a horse that responds like this, but I thank my lucky stars. That his "testing" me is just to say, "Nah, I don't wanna." But he still wants to please, so just me being verbally firm with him, puts him back in line, and then praising him kicks it up a notch. I desperately want John to ride and evaluate him. North is SO smart and learns and retains things so easily. I feel like just John riding him for 15-20 min can help clean up some things we've been working on, and he can tell me what he feels from North and what I can better do to refine some things. Plus I just want to see what he looks like with a professional on him. Haha.


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## PoptartShop

Yay! Glad you got to ride. The clinic will be AMAZING!! I am so excited for you. It'll be so fun, and you will learn some things and it'll really help you and North.   That is definitely something to look forward to! I'm glad you got a spot and will be able to show off North to him! Eeeek!! I can't wait, it'll be so fun watching him ride him too!

That sounds about right. Promise is the same way if she has too many days off. :lol: They definitely like to test, but all you gotta do is put that Mom voice on...and they're like okay, no biggie...I will do what you ask, sorry! :rofl: Honestly they are like children!

Gotta get into MOM MODE! LOL. It's good you kept going and didn't let him get away with it and ended up having a great ride. It doesn't take much for them to listen and praise is definitely key with these young ones. I'm really excited to hear about the clinic. You deserve it, and I know it will go amazing!!!! John will be super impressed.


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## Tihannah

The clinic was incredible and I was quickly reminded why we love John so much. He brings such a wealth of knowledge and his ability to teach and make things simple and easy to understand are just amazing. 

North was amazing as well. He now trailers like a pro with no hesitation walking on or off the trailer. We didn't ride until 2:30p on Saturday, but we hauled him over around 10a so he would have time to settle in and get comfortable in a new environment. He was a little nervous and looky stepping off the trailer, but after only 10 minutes of walking around, he had relaxed and begun to graze. The entire day he just took everything in stride. There were lots of people, kids, a few dogs, different horses being hauled in, coming and going. He was a total saint!

My ride on Saturday wasn't that great, but it helped A LOT. I explained to John what my current issues were - consistent contact, impulsion, and transitions. North was SO hard to keep in front of my leg and I was having to REALLY work to keep him forward, so it was super difficult to establish a good connection. John gave me great instruction, and we would have our moments, but it was not where I wanted it to be.

After our ride, I hung out letting North graze while I watched the other rides and he spent about 30 min just hanging out and playing with some little girls. One is the little girl that boards with us and has the mare that's his pasture mate. He was so incredibly sweet and gentle with them.






On my way home that night, my old trainer called me just to tell me that she was so glad to finally see North in action and that he had an incredible temperament and she was so happy for me. 

When I got home that night, I watched the video from my ride over and over taking in everything John was telling me and what I was doing wrong. Today (Sunday) was an entirely new ride!

Me and North KILLED it! Just taking the tools he gave us the day before and really focusing on applying them and being quicker and more consistent with my aids. It was like night and day! The ride felt amazing and John gave us such great commentary. Although she didn't get to ride, Helen was right there to support us for both rides, and giving John information on both North and my development. He covered so many amazing things and said he was really surprised by how round and uphill North was despite being croup high and still growing. He said that we were doing a really good job with him, that even though he was a baby, North REALLY took care of me and I did good by praising him so much. At one point during our ride, a dog jumped into the ring in our path. I semi-panicked, but North just stepped sideways and kept going, totally unphased. John said he was worth his weight in gold.

There was SO much great video from today, it was hard to choose, but I chose these because they contained not only good stuff from me and North, but really good stuff from John. We've already booked him to come back at the end of March and already, it's FULL, and I can't wait!!


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## PoptartShop

I am SO happy to hear the clinic went well this weekend. You and North rocked it! <3 Now you will have stuff to work on, and tools to use in order to help you guys progress even further.

I love the videos, you guys look amazing. So impressive!!! Just think, by March you guys will be even further along, and John will be so impressed.  So exciting.

And such a good baby! I love the video with the little girl. So adorable.
I'm glad your old trainer was nice and gave you guys a compliment, she was probably blown away by it all! Definitely sounds like it was night and day! I'm sure by Sunday you were more relaxed (physically and mentally) which helped also. I know Saturday was a big day for you guys. 

So proud of you both! <3 I knew it would go well, but seeing the videos blew me away too. Go Tina and North!!!!!:happydance:


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## carshon

the videos were great and fun to watch! I think North is stunning and love to see his progress.


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## Tihannah

carshon said:


> the videos were great and fun to watch! I think North is stunning and love to see his progress.


Thank you! I really think I hit the jackpot with him - from his incredible temperament to his willingness to learn and trainability, and the fact that he's just so dern cute! Lol.

It was really gratifying for both Helen and I this weekend to see all the doubt and skepticism surrounding him begin to lift and change from, "She made a bad decision" to "Wow, he's really amazing!" Lol. 

There was a moment in the day when I was hand grazing him and talking to my old trainer. I saw her eyes get big and she said, "He's standing on his lead rope! Is he gonna flip out?? I'm gonna back up!" I laughed and said, "No! North! Back up silly!" He was literally standing on the rope about a foot under his halter. I shoved him backwards and he kept grazing. Barely even looked up. She just said, "He's amazing."

I know that me coming off and fracturing my back in 2 places didn't help the skepticism either, lol, but he REALLY made me SO PROUD this weekend.


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## Tihannah

Got a short ride in yesterday. Worked from home cause I've been battling a terrible cold since Friday, but the weekend is forecasting showers, so I didn't want to let North go that long without SOMETHING and headed out before it got dark. 

We rode up front again and he was doing well to stay in front of the leg and we just worked on some of the exercises John gave us. Then at some point, one of the BO's workers decided to throw some trash cans around that spooked him and sent us flying across the arena in a canter. I kept my head, kept my seat, brought him back, but made him keep trotting like nothing happened. Helen and some of the barn girls were there and finishing up a lesson and left shortly after. They didn't even see what happened.

So after that we were on our own, but I really tried to keep him focused on me. We ended up having 2 more small spooks. North likes people. Trusts people more than he does horses, so I think having no one there on the ground with us and already getting spooked, put him a little on edge. The 3rd spook was when I'd had enough. The same worker was just cruising by in the golf cart with the BO's dog running behind and he decided to jump sideways. The golf cart and dog goes by 10 times a day every day, but suddenly he'd decided it was scary. Nope, wasn't having it. I told him to "Knock it off!" , legged him into a trot, and went to work, all the while verbally chewing his butt at the same time. "What is wrong with you?! You've seen that cart a million times! Stop acting like a nut!" LOL. It totally worked. He kept his ears turned back to me as I talked to him, put his head down, and went to work. He knew mom was not happy with the nonsense.

We worked on a couple good sets and then I patted him and we headed back to the barn. I didn't have the strength to do much, but I've found when I give him too many days off in a row, it's just that much harder to get his engine going again.

I'm planning on starting him on a new supplement soon. Have heard some good things about Platinum Performance. He won't touch his oil supplement anymore and I cant give him alfalfa cause he looses his mind, but I really want something that's like an all-in-one. He's lost some weight over the winter months and I'd really like to get him a little more bulked up like he was in the summer. The alfalfa had him looking like a tank, lol, but it was just too much energy for him. If anyone has tried the Platinum Performance, I'd love to hear from you. I spoke with one of their representatives, and we think he'd be fine on the regular formula which is about $80 a month cheaper than the next step up.


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## DanteDressageNerd

Trying to catch up on journals. Been SUPER busy, been home maybe 5hrs this week not including sleep. Also if you ever want to come to Denmark you are welcome to stay with me but I am 3hrs west of Copenhagen. Here is more natural beauty.

I know I already said on fb but I'm really proud of you (without sounding condescending) but admire your strength and courage in doing what is right for Forrest. It takes true love to consider the quality of life and doing what is best for him. Strength and courage isnt easy else we'd all have it. You did the right thing.

You and North look really super! I'm really glad you had such good lessons! I agre with Helen addressing those fights with young North. Even the sweetest horse can be pretty nasty when working through an issue that may seem little but to the horse is a big deal in releasing it's body. I kinda think it's like someone making you write an essay with your less dominant hand and getting frustrated because it's difficult or a yoga pose that make you address crookednesses or hard spots in the body and being frustrated it's harder. With the post I think of it as on a horse a bit behind the leg or on something you want to create more reach and suspension you stay in the air a hair longer in the post, long in the upward phase and when you sit landing like you're sitting on egg shells then up again. On something too forward sitting in the sit phase a hair longer and rising slowly with engaged core. Leg on or whip as come out of saddle, half halt when in the saddle. And in the canter, especially on youngsters or green horses really counting the beats and as though the back of your seat you use to sit down the croup and as your hip slides forward like your sitting lightly but allowing the shoulder to come up into your hips like your drawing the back up and inviting it in. Those visuals used to help me alot. And just thinking straight into the outside rein and then bend like John had you do on long sides. Seems to help a lot. Sounded like a really good lesson.

I like how honest North is and how willing he is. He doesnt seem to get too mad or frustrated in figure things out. He's just like well okay and takes it in stride. I dont think you could have found a more perfect partner for you. He just wants to be there and be a partner. He's a baby so typical wobbliness but he's honest and does his best to stay under you. That's a good partner and you seem much more confident in yourself and clear in your aids and expectation, you should be really proud!


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## Tihannah

@DanteDressageNerd - Thanks Cassie. I love what I am learning on him and for the first time, really feel like I am getting better, developing feel, and working through the true mechanics of dressage. Not sure it would ever happen for me, but I would love to visit Denmark one day. I was born in Germany and went back from age 7-13 and I miss it so much. I had the best childhood growing up there. I would live somewhere in Europe in a heartbeat if I could.

I loved hearing John tell Helen that she had to be careful not to let me get to THAT spot with him. I think he could see that North and I have a great working relationship, and because I'm not a strong rider, it is best to do what we've been doing and let Helen tackle the hard stuff with him. Not sure if I mentioned it, but on Saturday, Helen hopped on at the end of my lesson and showed John what we've done so far with canter (not much). John said he has a very nice, uphill, ground covering, base canter and it's good that we haven't pushed it or done too much to try and force it. Surprisingly, he said his canter is actually his best gait and once he realizes it, he's always going to want to canter. Lol.

After our ride on Sunday, Helen gave me a big hug and said she was SO proud of me, and that it made her happy to watch how well we rode and how far I've come in the short time I've been lessoning with her and North. Experiencing what a great temperament he has, it's now easier for me to have a discerning eye when looking at horses. I still browse sale ads all the time just for fun, and will look at certain horses and think, "Nope, he would be too much horse for me." Lol.


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## phantomhorse13

Tihannah said:


> If anyone has tried the Platinum Performance, I'd love to hear from you.


Lani and Kathy use this on all their endurance and hunt horses and have for years. It doesn't seem to make them crazy (and that includes Duroc, the race-bred TB that I ride who doesn't need any excuse to get hotter).


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## Tihannah

phantomhorse13 said:


> Lani and Kathy use this on all their endurance and hunt horses and have for years. It doesn't seem to make them crazy (and that includes Duroc, the race-bred TB that I ride who doesn't need any excuse to get hotter).


Oh, that's awesome. Do you know if they use the regular or Platinum CJ formula. The rep told me the only difference was that the CJ has 4 additional joint supplements added to it's and geared more towards horses in heavy work or older or those with joint problems. The regular has joint maintenance in it, so I was thinking that should be enough for North since he's not in real work yet and has no issues.


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## PoptartShop

Bahaha I totally get it, they can't go too long without some work. Even if you had a short ride, it was something. That's what matters. Winter sucks.  I haven't been able to work Promise most of this week, so this weekend will be interesting. :lol:

LOL, glad you got into 'mom mode' with him and told him to knock it off! Silly baby probably just wanted to get out of work haha. :lol: I've seen this cart a million times...but let me act like it scares the living crap out of me today. LOL. What a silly boy.

It's good you stayed calm and kept him working after the spooking canter across the arena. If he has all that energy to spook, he can use it to do some work! As for Platinum Performance, I think some girls at my barn use it, I've definitely seen it before. I think the regular one, not the CJ. I can find out and let you know how they like it.

I think the regular one would be good for North, since he's not in super heavy work and doesn't have any past injuries or joint issues. Gosh yes, alfalfa is a no-no!


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## phantomhorse13

Tihannah said:


> Do you know if they use the regular or Platinum CJ formula.


They use the regular formula.


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## Rainaisabelle

Love reading your journal! Was really excited to see all your pictures and videos with John they make me so happy!

I have to say Roy is the same if we have a riding lesson and I haven’t ridden for atleast 3 consecutive days beforehand it shows badly. He can be difficult at the best of times but without being in enough work holy!


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## DanteDressageNerd

Youre welcome! I'm glad you have good help and are progressing and happy  

I remember you had mentioned that, that sounds like a very neat way to grow up! And yes Denmark is lovely, if you ever visit. I would suggest May or June to be a good time. Less rain fall and can see it. I think the natural beauty and culture is very nice! 

I can see that, he wants what is best for you and for North and wants to make sure you both stay confident with each other and keep building and thinking well of each other in team work. Glad he likes his canter, canter and walk are the most important and good basic mechanics. The rest can be worked on, so that's super exciting! It's gonna be fun to see where you guys go together!

Experience definitely improves the eye, it's always changing and a thrill to develop. Glad it's coming


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## Tihannah

@Rainaisabelle - Thank you! This journey with North is just so enjoyable for me. He makes my heart smile. 

Was a really fun weekend even though the sun didn't really come out as promised! Saturday he was his normal blah, don't feel like it today, Mom! I didn't push. We messed around in the arena for about 15 min, just asked him to give me one decent trot set and then we went on a short hack with the girls.

Sunday was a better ride, and he was really trying for me, so I kept it short, about 25 minutes. The way that John showed me to develop a consistent contact has really just changed everything. I'm not doing all the crazy stuff with my reins anymore and it's allowing North to find where he's comfortable at when I push him into the bridle. Our downward transitions are also so much better. Who knew posting slow into the downward was so much easier?? Lol. The whole stretching thing is now his favorite, but he tries to take advantage from the start of the ride. At one point on Sunday, he was trying to lean into my hands or pull the reins down. It took one instance of me basically dropping the contact and then bumping him up with my legs to say, "Hey! You gotta carry yourself!" After that, he didn't try it again. I want him to take the contact down as I release it, but he was trying to make me give him the reins. After that, the rest of the ride felt great.

Below is just a short snippet from our ride. Please don't scoff at my chubtastic self. It's hard getting older and working a desk job, but my friend and I started WW yesterday. I did it back in 2008 when my kids were still young and managed to lose 30lbs and keep it off until about 3 years ago, so I am giving it another go. Just tired of feeling like a blob and think I owe it to my young healthy horse to get my butt in shape.


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## egrogan

Tihannah said:


> It's hard getting older and working a desk job...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JDaZTnCVSY&feature=youtu.be



I know we all have our ideals for how our body should look and feel, but I'll just say you look very fit and comfortably in harmony with your horse. And I'll also say I 100% relate to what you wrote! Sometimes I feel like I'm living a double life- tethered to the computer by day, and then busting my butt doing chores outside all weekend and in the evenings. Having the horses at home has been the best "get in shape" plan I've ever known- I think this will be the first winter I've ever _lost _weight! I curse how miserable it is to push a wheelbarrow through the snow or carry twice as many hay bales as we need the rest of the year, but it sure does keep your body working! :smile:


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## Tihannah

egrogan said:


> I know we all have our ideals for how our body should look and feel, but I'll just say you look very fit and comfortably in harmony with your horse. And I'll also say I 100% relate to what you wrote! Sometimes I feel like I'm living a double life- tethered to the computer by day, and then busting my butt doing chores outside all weekend and in the evenings. Having the horses at home has been the best "get in shape" plan I've ever known- I think this will be the first winter I've ever _lost _weight! I curse how miserable it is to push a wheelbarrow through the snow or carry twice as many hay bales as we need the rest of the year, but it sure does keep your body working! :smile:


Glad the videos are deceiving! Haha. But really, I would SO much rather spend my days at the barn than behind a desk. I honestly think it has been harmful to my overall health having to sit all day. My body aches all the time and I feel 20 yrs older than my actual age most days. I can't even imagine what I would be like if I didn't have horses in my life.


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## PoptartShop

You guys look great!!  
PSH, a blob? You? HA! Not even close!! You look great!! 

Working a desk job can be tough...I feel the same way, like I wanna be up and moving, but nope, sitting at a desk 8-9hrs a day. :icon_rolleyes: I tried WW 2yrs ago and it helped me...I may have to try it again. I need to lose like 10-15. Ugh. You really do look fine though! Plus you have long legs! At least you aren't super short lol!

You make it look SO easy when he stretches down, to keep your reins consistent. I am having an issue currently with it...what is your secret?! I tend to lean forward or lose the consistency in my reins when Promise stretches down. Ugh! I'll get it eventually haha.

I'm glad you got to ride this weekend  So happy with your progress!!!!


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## Tihannah

PoptartShop said:


> You make it look SO easy when he stretches down, to keep your reins consistent. I am having an issue currently with it...what is your secret?! I tend to lean forward or lose the consistency in my reins when Promise stretches down. Ugh! I'll get it eventually haha.
> 
> I'm glad you got to ride this weekend  So happy with your progress!!!!


Haha, thanks, but I'm definitely still working on it! I use to kinda just let the contact go and widen my reins and just throw everything out the window. You kinda have to just let the reins slide through your fingers, but keep the contact, and if you start to lose the contact, then shorten them back up again. But as they're stretching down, you still have to sit up and back and use your legs to push them down and out into the contact, if that makes sense. Like North will stretch down, but if I don't push him out with my legs to the bit, then he will stretch down and kinda curl behind the bit. It's a lot of multi-tasking and it takes some practice for both you and the horse to understand. North loves stretching now, but I have to make sure he's not cheating and doing it correctly so he's properly working over his back and not just trying to trick me into giving away the reins.


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## Tihannah

It was another fun weekend with Baby North. I think we got one ride in during the week and it didn't last but maybe 20 minutes. Never even got a good warmup. We still don't have lighting up front in the riding area, so the small area I have is poorly lit.

Helen was teaching pony club at my old barn on Saturday, so North and I decided to tag along to give him more experience getting out and be able to school in their dressage arena. Again he was a little nervous when we first unloaded, but it didn't take him long to relax and settle in. We hung out and hand grazed, watching the pony clubbers for awhile, before deciding to tack up and ride. He is just such an impressive baby and I adore him more and more each day. I have developed such a bond with him and love the way he is attached to me. 

Shortly after we arrived, I turned him loose in the covered arena, so I could go get our tack unloaded. When I came back, he was all riled up because a horse in a neighboring paddock was kicking up a fuss. He was at the far end of the arena watching the other horse, huffing, cantering and kicking out. I called out to him and as soon as he turned and saw me, he came cantering straight to me. It was like he was relieved to see me. I went into the arena with him and just walked around and he stayed close by my side just following me around as I spoke to him. And THIS, this is what I love about him and the bond we share. He trusts me and looks to me for guidance. I can reassure him when he is nervous or uncertain. I've never felt this type of bond with any horse and the feeling is just priceless.

Our ride was just as nice. Without a doubt, North is an arena horse. He seems to enjoy having boundaries and guidelines he must stay within. No matter how hard I try, I just can't get the same focus or work ethic that I get with him in an arena. It is definitely one aspect I miss about my old barn, but I know that my bond with North, his temperament, and just the pleasure it's been developing him would not have been the same if I had decided to board him there. He would have been in a crowded pasture with 10-12 others horses and handled by different people every day. Some who are teenagers and make careless mistakes a lot. I would have just been the person coming to ride and work him every day. The horses moved from that barn to the one we are at now are simply different horses. More relaxed and happy and easy to handle. I don't know that I could ever put him into a full boarding situation now.

Below are some pics and a little edit I put together from our ride Saturday. Both of us get better everyday and I'm super excited for the coming years and watching him develop further.


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## Tihannah

Okay, so now that the "ooey-gooey, my pony is perfect" stuff is out of the way...

Let me tell you about SUNDAY!! Haha.

We rode in the front riding area in our makeshift dressage arena. Here's the thing about North. He just simply favors people over horses when it comes to trust. So when I ride him up front, I generally need someone on the ground to be his "support person". And he's really weird about it. He wants someone in the center of the arena to feel fully comfortable. Not outside the arena and in the general vicinity. He just feels more at ease when someone is in the center of the arena. That person is often my friend, Alex, because she practically lives at the barn.

Yesterday she was teaching a beginner lesson, but afterwards, she, her student, and student's mom came to hang out in the middle of the arena to be North's "emotional support". It was really windy and for some reason, through traffic on the road next to the riding area was pretty steady. My guy and another boarder were there, but they were on the outside, so didn't really count. We were doing great, a couple baby legs yields, nice rhythm, and just nice overall response to the aids. Then Alex announced that she was taking her student back to the barn so they could untack the lesson pony, but would be back if I wasn't done riding yet. It was as if North knew exactly what she said because 3 strides later, spook and jump at nothing! And this is what he does, because he doesn't like not having a person on the ground nearby when we ride up front. Suddenly, everything and nothing is cause for alarm. I ride him through it and pretend like nothing happened, and they leave. We do 2 laps around the arena and suddenly out of nowhere, he's leaping through the air, bucking, and trying to canter. I never felt scared or like I was gonna come off. More so like, "What is this nut doing??" Lol. I brought him back fairly easily got him to calm down, and then patted him as soon as he relaxed. When I went back and watched the video, the only thing I could see was that a van drove by. :-/ Mind you, we're at least 30-40 yards from the road and it wasn't a loud van or anything. It was just North basically mad because our friends left and he had to keep working. So I made him go walk-trot at least another 10 minutes before I called the ride and then rode him back to the barn.

So yes, definitely an interesting ride and something we will have to work through, but even better? I got it all on video! Lol. These things happen very fast and prior to the big spook, we were working on a longer rein because I was asking him to stretch down. Not our most graceful moment, but I was pretty proud of myself for staying in the saddle and not getting freaked out about it.


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## greentree

Your beautiful horse looks off to me....after the “spook”.....which makes me think it was not a spook nor an attitude....


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## Tihannah

greentree said:


> Your beautiful horse looks off to me....after the “spook”.....which makes me think it was not a spook nor an attitude....


Looks off where? After which spook? The first one? He showed nothing after the ride when turned out, not this morning when he trotted in first breakfast.

This is not the first time he's done this. Always this area, always when someone leaves.


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## greentree

Tihannah said:


> Looks off where? After which spook? The first one? He showed nothing after the ride when turned out, not this morning when he trotted in first breakfast.
> 
> This is not the first time he's done this. Always this area, always when someone leaves.


He looks like he is dragging his toe. I think the right....there is a puff of dirt from it.


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## DanteDressageNerd

I agree he doesn't look 100%, I think right hind also but also looks like it could originate in the back and usually when it's something like that, I look at the back and see if maybe something is bothering them. Could be in the muscle or growing pains. One thing with babies is when they grow sometimes they can make themselves sore or as their body changes get annoyed because their body feels different or sometimes if they lose footing, they lose confidence *shrugs* could be anything and youngsters go through a lot of phases physically and mentally as they grow up. 

Or he could be totally fine and going through a phase *shrugs* horses.


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## Tihannah

greentree said:


> Your beautiful horse looks off to me....after the “spook”.....which makes me think it was not a spook nor an attitude....


I see what you mean by "after the spook" and that's likely because he leaped through the air and kicked out and he's neither strong or balanced enough to do that with a rider. I walked him the majority of the time afterwards and went back to look at the video and didn't see anything, but it's possible he pulled something when he did that. 

If you watch the video right before the spook, we are on left lead and as we go into the corner, he avoids using his left inside hind. I posted that in my video of the clinic where John tells Helen that that is something she needs to tackle and is not an argument that I need to have with him, and it's likely going to get ugly before it gets pretty. He also says its very common with the youngsters.

I share a lot of video of our rides, but right now he is only ridden on weekends mostly. If I do manage to ride him during the week, our rides are usually 20 min tops of walk and trot. I don't do a lot of circles with him and I try to stick to straight lines and diagonals as much as possible. He is cantered MAYBE once a month and not by me and I have the chiro out to check him monthly. Her last visit, she was amazed by how little she found. A residual knot in his neck was really the only issue. He is young, but I am also careful not to push him.

But like I said, this was not the first time this has happened. Every single time he has spooked with me in the saddle (even my fall) has been this exact same area. Not at the show (and we rode all over the grounds), the arena complex down the road, the clinic, my old barn, or hacking in the woods around our property. Just here. But if he did pull something, I will be sure and have the chiro check when she is out again this month.


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## Tihannah

Just want to say THANKS to @greentree and @DanteDressageNerd for noting that North looked off in the video. I should've caught that, but didn't. We were all 3 sort of right in what we saw. Greentree - that he was off, Cassie- that it was his back (and more), and me that it happened during the spook. 

Gave him off until today, but we did do a little groundwork during the week and I kept watch to see if he was showing any lameness. All appeared normal until I got in the saddle today. He didn't look off, but I could feel it, and we had a lot of tail swishing going on. We did a lot at the walk, and when I asked for the trot, he didn't hesitate, but something just didn't feel right. He was somewhat forward, but kinda tight in his back and difficult to keep in a bend. I asked a friend who was riding with me if he looked off or saw anything in his right hind. She thought he looked fine, but just had a slight stickiness in the right hind. We just sort of plodded around a bit and then at one point during the walk, he just kicked out. I immediately hopped off and told her something was definitely wrong. I rubbed him, kissed his face and took him back to the barn to untack and look him over. 

I thoroughly checked his legs, couldn't find any heat or swelling, but did get a reaction from his back. I immediately texted the chiropractor and told her something was wrong, about the spook, and what he was doing. She asked me to send video of him trotting. I told her I had video of the spook and video from today too and would send both. I sent the spook video first and before I could even send video from today, she responded, "You don't have to send any other videos. I saw it. Sacrum on the right and lower back. Silly boy!" She's coming out on Wednesday to get him fixed up. My chiro is just amazing with horses, and as soon as I texted the barn group to let them know she was coming, 5 more horses were added to her visit. 

I took a 4 day weekend for my birthday and now won't be able to ride which really sucks, but I'll still spend most of time at the barn pampering my pony anyways. Even worse is that starting Tuesday, we are forecasted rain for the next 10 days! Still better than being cooped up in an office all day trying to solve complex code!


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## PoptartShop

Glad you figured out what was wrong, and he was definitely having what I'd like to call a 'baby' moment, looks like he needed reassurance. It happens sometimes although I am super happy you stayed on like a champ!! :lol: I know it was probably hard to stay balanced because it happened out of NOWHERE! LOL, silly North! He definitely keeps you on your toes!
The chiro will fix him right up.  Boo about the rain, ugh but at least you can still hangout with him and pamper him. And yes, anything is better than being cooped up at work!!


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## Tihannah

North saw the chiro on Wednesday and got fixed up. She said it wasn't too bad and we've made good progress in getting him more supple to the left of his neck. He started the session being a little mouthy and busy body and then as always, turned to mush once the endorphins kicked in.

Today we had our first real ride since the spook. I think we were both rusty, but eventually found our stride. It didn't take much to get him forward and he felt really good. 

I ordered him a new saddle pad this week, and wanted to save it for the clinic, but couldn't resist riding in it. It's from Equestrian Stockholm and GORGEOUS. I love it so much that I think I might order a 2nd just so I can have one to play in and one for clinics, etc. I also ordered him a new bridle through Bridle2Fit. His current bridle is the one I got for Forrest last year and is a tad big for him. Bridle2Fit lets you custom order by piece, so I was able to put together everything I wanted and haven't been able to find. Can't wait to see it.

Below are just a few pics from our ride today and one after his bath. It's really warm down here right now (high 70's), so Im already dreading the coming summer. The humidity gets so bad here that its hard for me to breathe when it gets warm. I had to take several breaks during our ride to catch my breath.


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## KigerQueen

Oh! I cant find anything to fit moose head so ill have to checkout bridles2fit! 

North looks amazing buy the way. Makes me want to get a ottb.


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## Tihannah

Today was simply BEAUTIFUL out and I couldn't wait to get to the barn. We've had nothing but rain and fog for the past two weeks, so when I woke up and saw sun and blue skies, I could barely contain myself! Haha.

The horses had already been fed and turned back out by the time I got there, so I went out to fetch North. Once I got there, I decided to just hang out a bit and enjoy the sunshine with my guy while he grazed. I rubbed him and talked to him and he stayed close by. If I moved away, he'd stop and look at me like, "Where ya going, Mom?" At one point, the mare he shares a pasture with decided to walk over and say hello. He instantly pinned his ears and charged her, causing her to run off, then returned to me to graze. Eventually, we headed back to the barn to groom and tack up, but I can't lie, that moment absolutely tickled me. 

I am his person and not only does he know this, but he makes it known to others. I love this horse so much.

It was a super windy day, so I decided to put on his new bonnet with his new saddle pad. He looked SOOO handsome, I could barely take it. Lol. The mares owner showed up in time and they rode with us. We schooled for about 30 minutes, then took them on a short hack around the property. North was such a good boy and I enjoyed every minute of it.


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## Golden Horse

Love reading the updates, you look so different in the saddle on North, just like you are part of him.

I hear you on the breathing, but for the very opposite reason, I have been prescribed inhalers to help me breathe in this intense cold....windchills are at -40*C again....I can’t wait until warmer weather!


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## PoptartShop

I love how possessive he is of you. Promise does the same thing, it's quite endearing isn't it?! Like they KNOW their mommas, and don't want ANYONE getting any of the treatment they get! Or don't want anyone near them! :lol: So cute!!! He was like, this is MY person, MY momma, go away! :lol: So freaking cute. I bet he was so happy to see you! It's nice to just hangout and let them graze. It's a nice reward for them, and relaxing for you!

You guys look great, and I LOVE the bonnet on him. Looks so good with the new pad, too! So nice to see you riding, and in some sunshine finally!  You guys look fantastic. So glad you had such a nice weekend with your boy! I hope the rain and fog stays away, I know you are sick of it!


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## Tihannah

Golden Horse said:


> Love reading the updates, you look so different in the saddle on North, just like you are part of him.


I love this so much, because that is how it feels. Like we have a true partnership and understanding. It's something I've never experienced with any other horse and I wouldn't trade that for the biggest, fanciest moving WB. And the time spent with him out of the saddle feels just as good as the time in the saddle. And to know that he's just a baby and the fact that I'm only seeing the beginnings of his potential makes me giddy inside.

The girl I rode with yesterday has the young mare and she's desperately trying to learn and understand about contact, bending, and getting your horse round. She's only 11, so I've tried to explain to her mom that it will be AT LEAST another year or two before she's physically capable to use her body in way to ask the horse properly. She's really tiny. So yesterday, I lent her my grab strap just so she could work on keeping her hands still. I turned around and she had the reins pulled super short and tight trying to hold the mare and push her into dropping her head while mom tried to instruct her. The mare was so tight and tense.

I went over to them and made them stop. I explained to them that I KNOW it seems like it's about the head, but it's NOT, and it too took me a long time to fully understand it. I told them it's about their BODY and used North to demonstrate. We were just standing and his head was high in the air. I had a fairly long rein on him and just picked up a very loose contact. I legged him forward and asked him to bend just with my seat and legs, without doing ANYTHING with my hands and he instantly went round, soft and down into the contact. Mom's mouth fell open and I saw the light bulb come on. I told her that THIS is why her daughter would need to get bigger and stronger before she could properly ask and that she would never REALLY get correct contact by trying to hold her head down. The horse has to give it to you through their body.

And THIS is what North has taught me... and it's an amazing feeling.


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## DanteDressageNerd

Absolutely. I think what is really hard for most horses as they progress up the levels is releasing more and more of their body to a rider. It also take a lot of strength to be softer but still effective. 

I think one of the things that does irritate me when I know of some riders who are good riders but they just lack the feel and awareness of the horse's body and how to use the horse's body to bring the whole picture together. A lot of those details are things you can kinda give people an idea too but they cant really understand until they experience it. 

I remember teaching a lesson to a woman who was riding a mare I knew well and was very emotionally sensitive. She would absolutely refuse to be ridden by someone who was aware of how to use their energy or emotion to guide her. So I had to sit and try to teach what it feel like to release energy through the chest and tried to explain it's like opening and closing a valve and that when you get on a new horse. Instead of jumping into testing what the horse can do, ask basic questions like go, stop, turn on the forehand, etc and build from there. Start a basic conversation with the horse and develop a certain feel and understanding like getting to know a new friend, rather than jumping in and expecting each new horse to ride like the last one. It's a partnership. But I remember saying with energy it isnt something you can teach directly, it's something you have to have an idea for then feel and learn how to work with it. Else it's like describing the color purple to someone who is blind. Some things people just kinda need to have an idea in their mind and then a lot of practice riding horse after horse and lesson after lesson.

Also had a student with her bronze medal ride Wonder and I remember with laterals I had to explain it isnt' about "pushing" him over. If you try to "push" him with the lateral, instead of using your mind he will just push into the pressure and not take a single lateral step. And I remember because she rode Wonder, it really helped her get that idea on her mare and helped their laterals quite a lot. Sometimes a horse can show a person what a trainer or another person has tried to show them but they really needed to feel that moment with a horse to understand, if that makes sense? Quite an incredible journey.


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## Tihannah

DanteDressageNerd said:


> Sometimes a horse can show a person what a trainer or another person has tried to show them but they really needed to feel that moment with a horse to understand, if that makes sense? Quite an incredible journey.


This is very true! Riding "back to front" and developing feel was not something that was easy to understand for me with my previous horses. Trainers could tell me again and again, but I'm a person that learns by doing, so it was a hard thing to grasp on horses that had never been ridden this way, were seniors, and had 101 evasion tactics. North is just such a clean slate that he makes it easy to not only understand these concepts, but teach him as well.


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## Tihannah

Got off work a little early on Wednesday, so decided to do a short ride. Helen rode with me bareback on her horse and we took them out in one of the bigger pastures.

I started North on two new supplements a little over 2 weeks ago. One is the Platinum Performance Wellness and the other is a muscle builder. I really just want to make sure he's getting the vitamins and nutritional support he needs since he's always been kind of on the lazy side and a little hard to get forward and moving. Now? No spurs needed, lol, and I'm having to relearn how to ride him.

For quite some time, when I asked for the trot, we'd start out in a slow jog, and I have to keep pushing him to get more forward. I'd started wearing spurs again just because it was so hard to keep a forward momentum on him. Now he just feels great and no spurs are needed, but I almost have to stop myself from holding him back because I'm not used to the initial jolt of energy! It almost feels like he's running away with me, but once I get him on the aids, it's like we're coasting and it feels amazing.

Part of it too is my reluctance to ask for more when we're outside an arena. There are more outside factors, distractions, and what not so I'm more reserved and cautious. I don't mean to be, but the "what if" is always in the back of my mind and its hard for me to just let go. So I worked on that last night while we were in the pasture. Telling myself he was the same horse whether we were in a pasture or an arena and the same rules applied. So even though we had this HUGE open space and it felt like he was running with me, I didn't pull back, and instead kept asking for more until he went round and settled into the contact. And then when he got there, that feeling of connection came back and I was in control.

Our ride was 20 minutes tops including a short hack we did around the pasture, but it felt really nice. Hurdles one at a time right?


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## PoptartShop

I'm glad the supplements are working for him!  I've heard nothing but good things about the PP one. I bet it feels good not having to use spurs anymore.  It will be an adjustment for you, but a good one! 

I understand about hesitating a little when you are outside of the arena. There are more distractions & it's an open space. It can be a bit intimidating, especially on a baby! You know they are unpredictable & have their moments. But I think you are doing great!  That's all, just tell yourself it's the same inside and outside of the arena. Exactly, one thing at a time. You got this! <3


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## lostastirrup

Out of curiosity what is the muscle builder you have him on?


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## Tihannah

lostastirrup said:


> Out of curiosity what is the muscle builder you have him on?


AniMed Muscle Up. They sell it everywhere - Tractor Supply, Amazon, etc.

A friend of mine at my old barn pretty much rescued a TB last year who was skin and bones, knocking on death's door when she bought him off the girl who was trying to trade him for a barrel horse. He was being kept in a dirt roundpen with no access to grass or hay. Not even 2 months later, I kept mistaking him for her other horse because they were both chestnuts. I swear you couldn't tell that horse had ever had a hard life. He looked like he was lifting weights in the gym 3x a day and she barely rode him cause he was still a baby. It's fairly inexpensive. A 2.5 lb tub costs about $30 and last almost 3 months.

I wasn't sure, but North definitely looked like he was getting bigger to me, so I snapped a few pics the other night and then went and dug up another I took at the beginning of February. The first pic is from Feb 3rd. The second is from a week ago. He'd been on the supplement right around 2 weeks?


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## KigerQueen

Oh I need to get that stuff!


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## lostastirrup

I looked at it. It's got quite a bit of iron in it. But the rest is solid.


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## Tihannah

I CANTERED NORTH TODAY!!!! Heehee. It felt incredible. 

Had a lesson with Helen yesterday that ended up in us arguing about me cantering North. She wanted me to just do it. Just canter him. I argued NO, my seat's not good enough, and he's too unbalanced and crazy in the canter. SHE needed to canter him and teach him how to carry himself, so that I could be able to canter him. The last time she cantered him was mid January and it took 5-6 attempts before she could get him going somewhat normally on the correct lead. Because of his track training, canter to him means explode into an unbalanced, crazy gallop and I just don't have the seat or balance to teach him that it needs to come from the back and not the front.

We went back and forth for several minutes before she finally gave in and got in the saddle at the end of our lesson. And of course, just like in January when we had this same argument, I was proven right again. The first attempt wasn't bad at all. He picked up the wrong lead, but she just changed directions and kept him going, albeit a little fast, but he did well. The second attempt, he decided to brace and ignore her canter aid. She asked him to relax and soften and tapped him with the whip. Out of nowhere, he threw a huge buck and leaped forward almost giving Helen whiplash cause it was so unexpected. Much like he did with me in "the spook", but this clearly wasn't a spook and all attitude. Unfortunately for him, Helen has a much better seat than me and he got a one rein correction and was sent forward. He quickly realized his mistake, got back in line and was praised.

From then Helen was all business, and he responded accordingly. Previously, when cantered, she just kinda let him trot fast until he picked up the canter, and he often picked up the wrong lead. But now he is stronger and more balanced, so this time, when she asked for the canter, she didn't let him just jump into it, but actually use his hind and think about it. He got it on the 3rd attempt and she lavished him with praise. She changed directions and asked again and he picked up the correct lead on the first attempt and went into a lovely balanced canter. Once more in the other direction, and I swear it was the nicest I've ever seen him canter. She followed up in the downward transitions, asking him to stay connected. She got 3 good transition from him and then praised and ended the ride. From start to finish, I swear it was only about 10 minutes, and it literally changed everything. She said she would try to canter him again this week, but we were both really happy with what we saw.

So last night I went home and watched the videos from my ride and Helen's. When I say North is a smart cookie, I'm not even kidding. And this is the reason I have been able to do so well with him. Because Helen can get on and teach him something in one ride, and when I get on again, he remembers. I just have to make sure I'm doing it correctly. So when I went out today, I already had in the back of my mind that I would try to canter him myself. From the very start, the ride was fantastic. Both our upward and downward transitions were amazing. He was a bit behind the leg at times, but I figured he might have been a little tired from the day before. Regardless, it was one of our best rides. He was so consistent in the connection and really in tune to me and paying attention. So I decided to throw all my reservations out the window and just do it. 

He picked up the correct lead the first try. He didn't run, it wasn't crazy, it was actually really nice for our first go and I was ecstatic! But after our first try, he was anticipating and a little running in the trot, so I didn't ask again. We did a couple trot rounds and then I brought him back to walk and halt and praised him. He was good, GREAT in fact, and that was all I needed. I was beaming from ear and to ear. My guy was there to take video so as soon as I got him back to the barn, I sent it to Helen. She couldn't believe it. Lol. But I know my horse, and he's a baby, and I feel like he needs to fully understand what is being asked of him. I'm not a strong rider, so I don't think it's fair to him for me to get on and try to make him do something that I can't clearly communicate. And that's what I argued with Helen, but now I think she finally understands. 

So yea, AMAZING day! Below is some of our video today with a few strides of our canter. I'm so in love with this horse! <3


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## PoptartShop

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!  You guys look fantastic!!! <3 
And Helen is amazing too! That is so exciting!!! Eeeek! I'm sure you are so excited to do it again!

And don't worry if it isn't always 'perfect', he's a baby! It will get better the stronger he gets (he's already gotten stronger!) and he will become more balanced. It sure shows all the hard work you have been putting in is paying off. You guys look great.  So proud of you two!!!


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## carshon

Woo Hoo! This horse is amazing! What a team you two are!


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## Tihannah

I have a confession to make...

I have been on quite the bender for my pony. He's gotten the new saddle pad, new bonnet, some new polo wraps, a whole new set of Haas brushes (totally your fault @GoldenHorse - I saw your post), a new bridle, and today his new bit arrived. The first step is admitting you have a problem. My problem is I want the best of everything for my Northie. Lol.

He's such an amazing baby that I can't help myself. 

We had a lesson yesterday with Helen cause she's outta town this weekend. Normally I'll ride and then at the end, Helen will hop on and canter him a bit. Well, after she rode him last weekend, he was SO good the next day when I rode, so I got an idea. This time I told Helen I wanted her to ride FIRST. Give him a good tune up to the aids and canter BEFORE I got on. It was the right thing to do. She rode for about 15 minutes getting him forward and really responsive to the aids and then cantered him a bit. I swear his canter is 10x better now. By the time I got on, he was amazing. It was like I only had to think trot and we were off. 

I totally screwed up the canter though. It's what I always do, just over think everything. He'd go to pick up the canter and I'd bring him back to trot. We never got more than a few strides after several attempts because I couldn't make myself just let go. Helen got some video for us, so of course, I did what I always do. Went home and watched it multiple times. Today I went back after work determined to give it another shot.

I ordered him a Neue Schule Team Up bit. Said it was great for young, green horses and establishing a solid connection. He's not terrible about the contact, but I've always felt like maybe I should try something else. I've been riding him in a french link snaffle since I got him. He LOVED this new bit. I've never seen him so quiet in a bit before. Riding him was amazing. He was so soft, yet steady in the contact. I mean he just felt incredible in my hands and it took so little to communicate with him.

And we cantered! And I did so much better this time! I just had to tell myself to let go and ride him with my seat and body. I can't even convey how much I love this freakin horse. How many times can I post how amazing he is in this journal?? I feel like we can all start taking shots every time I say it cause I can't stop. A barn friend hung out with us while we rode. I swear he just keeps filling out and his neck is getting thicker every day. So we're trotting around my friend and he's SO round and so soft and she's like, "He looks amazing. He doesn't even look like a TB!"

Tomorrow they're doing Pony Club at my old barn again, so me and North are gonna go with them so we can school in the dressage arena. My guy is coming so I will have some video to share. I can't wait to share with you guys what I've seen from him in the past week. I'm so proud and enamored with my little Puff & Stuff.


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## Golden Horse

Lol, glad you ordered the brushes, you and North will love them.

CONGRATULATIONS, on your canters that is awesome, and it will only get better.

I so hear you on the overthinking, different for me now, because Chuck is far from green, but overthinking and over asking gets me in trouble. I’m learning to feel it, rather than think it, so awesome.


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## Tihannah

Golden Horse said:


> Lol, glad you ordered the brushes, you and North will love them.
> 
> CONGRATULATIONS, on your canters that is awesome, and it will only get better.
> 
> I so hear you on the overthinking, different for me now, because Chuck is far from green, but overthinking and over asking gets me in trouble. I’m learning to feel it, rather than think it, so awesome.


The brushes are amazing! I ordered the Alan Davies collection (cause Valegro-duh! Lol) I dont understand how they do it, but they get him SO soft and shiny!

So glad you are doing so well with Chuck. He looks like such a sweet guy. It's such a great feeling ain't it?


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## Tihannah

So I was fully prepared to post a video tonight of our amazing ride today in a dressage arena. We hauled North over and I got him fully dolled up, bonnet and everything. The Pony Club girls were using the arena, so I decided to hang out with North a little. Mostly just walked him around and then decided to warm him up with a little trot. There were a lot of kids and people there. 

In the area we were riding, there's mini bleachers with an awning/roof over it. North was a bit weary of this, but we rode past it without too much looking. Then a little boy went over and sat on them... North was trotting around lovely and then as we came around the next bend, the boy decided to just pop up. Startled North who threw the brakes on and went sideways. I remember thinking, maybe I can grab his neck and stay on. That was all she wrote. Apparently when I tried to grab his neck, he nailed me right between the eyes. I was out cold before I even hit the ground.

When I came to, I had no recollection whatsoever of what I was doing there, that I was riding, or how we got there. They said I kept asking the same questions over and over again.

"Was I riding??"
"Who was I riding??"
"I was riding North??"
"But how did we get here??"

3 of the parents there were doctors and my old trainer is a nurse so they checked me over but were alarmed that I kept asking the same questions over and over. 2 of them called their people at the hospital and let them know I was on my way. I don't remember how I got to my car. I just remember us leaving the barn. We went to the ER and they did a scan of my brain and all came back normal. Doc said I just got a concussion and needed to rest. I wanted to go back to the barn and ride but he said NO. Lol. My guy got the whole thing on video and after watching it, I'm seriously glad I wasn't more injured. 

When I got back to the barn, one of my barn friends recapped everything for me and I'm not gonna lie. I was cracking up! She said I was laughing after my fall when I asked them what I was doing there and how I got there. I was just grateful that I didn't injure my back again! My guy says I need a new hobby. I say, if you've never fallen off a horse, then you've never really ridden. Tomorrow is up in the air, but I'm hoping to get another shot at a decent ride! He was going so lovely before the fall! Lol.


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## Golden Horse

NO, do not be riding tomorrow....go love on him, do groundwork, let your brain settle down. You seriously do not want risk another trauma.

Sorry you got hurt, but he was going very pretty until then!


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## Rainaisabelle

What Denny said, 

Concussions and brain trauma are very serious, give yourself a couple of days to rest your brain before getting back on.


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## PoptartShop

So glad you’re okay. Ouch! 
I know you probably just wanna get back and ride! But I agree, don’t ride today, go and hangout with him of course but don’t ride. Just to be safe. I’m sure you did give your guy a heart attack too lol. With this sport, anything can happen but attitude is everything & the fact that you wanna get right back on is how it should be!  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dragoon

So sorry you got hurt! 
It was a valiant attempt to stay on! Glad you can see the learning experience in it!

But I must say, I am envious you got one of your falls on vid. I used to fall about once a month in my second year of riding..its gotten a lot less....but I really wish I had one of my more spectacular ones on video. Or any of them, really. Have fun showing your kids! Be interesting to hear what they say!


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## greentree

Yikes! Take care of yourself....take it very easy for a few days!


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## Tihannah

Woke up pretty sore this morning, so I'll just go out and groom and strip North's stall. He looked really happy to see me when I got back to the barn after the ER yesterday. He knickered at me when I called to him and then wouldn't leave the gate. Just stood there watching me. I'm really hoping that this doesn't affect me mentally when I'm back in the saddle again. You know, being reserved and nervous. I guess because I blacked out and had no memory of the fall yesterday, I had no reservations about going back and trying to ride again. My guy wants me to have Helen ride him a few times before I try to ride again, but I know my horse. There was nothing malicious in his actions or any intentions to try and get me off. He was in a fairly new place with lots going on and I'd never ridden him in that open space before. I told him, "When a horse wants you off, he will usually bolt as soon as he dumps you. North didn't move after I fell. Just stood there and watched me."

My memory came back of what I did prior to the fall and up to that moment when he went sideways, but nothing of actually falling and only remnants from when I came to, to when I actually made it to the hospital. I remember asking questions on the ground, but I only remember asking them once. My old trainer said we were going round and round in circles with the same questions 5-6 times. Lol. And I still don't remember getting up or how I got from the field to my car. Just remember getting into my car. My friend said as we were driving off, I looked at her, threw my hands up and shrugged like I was still confused. I don't remember that either. I also remember thinking that the hospital we were going to was too far and maybe we shouldn't go and I was alright and the next thing I knew, we were there!

Later the friend told me that one of the parents commented, "THAT is the reason I spent the dollars for our horse." Really?? Because you think the amount of money you spend on a horse determines whether or not your child will ever come off or they'll have the natural tendency to spook at things?? He bought his daughter a $14,000 friesian a few months ago. If you ask me, in 2-3 years my $0 TB will be kicking their Friesian's butt in the dressage ring.


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## lostastirrup

Ouch! That's an impressive hit ground. He really did look so lovely up til that point though.


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## NavigatorsMom

Yikes, that's a scary fall! Glad you're alright though, and I agree with everyone else, he looked amazing before the spook!


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## carshon

I am so sorry you fell off - and to be honest I think North's reaction was rather reserved. I was thinking shy, bolt, rodeo performance. He is such a lovely horse and you looked fabulous before the fall. The world holds so many scary things for horses young and old - I am happy you were wearing a helmet and were not hurt more seriously. Sending jingles for a speedy recovery!


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## Tihannah

Finally got back in the saddle last night after work! Aaaannnnnndddd...I came off again. :shock::shock: Lol. I think I'm okay, but pulled my sciatic nerve again and been trying to work it out since last night. It's not too bad though. I really need to go see my chiro and get all this stuff worked out.

So yea, we were doing great. I felt no nervousness back in the saddle, but took it easy for the first 20 minutes or so just staying at walk. My tailbone is still store, so I was worried about posting and having to really use my seat. A couple times, I tried to use my seat and it shot pain straight up my backside.

But of course, I just couldn't stay at walk for long and decided to ask for the trot. He was good - responsive, forward, and it didn't hurt to much. Then outta nowhere, cause he was going so well, I decided to ask for the canter. We picked up the wrong lead a couple times, but eventually got it and he was perfect. Didn't rush or run into it. Wasn't crazy and we probably got our best left lead canter.

I was going to call the ride and then said well, let me try right lead canter one more time, cause he was struggling to pick up the correct lead. I asked for canter, we picked up the wrong lead, so I brought him back and asked him to correct leads, and as he went to switch leads, he tripped and we both went down. He fell all the way down to his knees and I went right over his neck! Thankfully, we were already close to the ground. I swear I don't know how much more this old body can take! He got his footing back and calmly stood waiting for me to get up. My barn friend, Alex, was there with us and helped me up. We both laughed at the fact I came off again my FIRST time back in the saddle. I made sure to get back on and walk him around a bit. I don't want him thinking every time I come off, the ride is over. Lol.

So yea. 2 falls in less than a week! I'm batting zero here! Lol. I really want to try and ride today again, but not sure if my body is gonna let me without some pain. I've definitely had worse sciatic nerve pain. I've got 2 weeks till John returns and I can't stay in the friggin saddle long enough to get our canter work together and I don't even have a crazy horse! Lol.

Anyways, glad I didn't seriously injure myself, and mostly glad that getting back in the saddle doesn't make me nervous at all. Hopefully, he'll get better about his feet! We need to work some more on ground poles and cavallettis. He's definitely growing and his front end seems to have finally caught up with his hind end (for now), but I swear he looks bigger everyday. Even if I don't ride, I'll try to get some pics today. It really sucks getting old and not being able to bounce like I used to...


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## LoriF

Tihannah said:


> Later the friend told me that one of the parents commented, "THAT is the reason I spent the dollars for our horse." Really?? Because you think the amount of money you spend on a horse determines whether or not your child will ever come off or they'll have the natural tendency to spook at things?? He bought his daughter a $14,000 friesian a few months ago. If you ask me, in 2-3 years my $0 TB will be kicking their Friesian's butt in the dressage ring.


Ha, ha. As you know, I have a half Friesian that I adore. She'll be 12 years old this year and wouldn't call her a spooky horse at all. Well, guess what? Last year she spooked at whatever, never really saw what it was and I came off. So yeah, being a friesian doesn't exclude you from falls. Oh wait, I didn't spend $14,000. on her. Maybe that's what it was about. lol

Just take it easy and give yourself a break.


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## lostastirrup

Let me add that I payed a pretty penny for my former bucking rearing bolting fiend. Although he has the benefit of being "low to the ground" so that's safer I guess.


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## knightrider

Oh no, what rotten luck. I've trained a bunch of young horses and they do tend to fall. Comes with the territory, I'm afraid. I hope you feel better very soon and get back to riding with no more mishaps.


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## Tihannah

Got a short ride in yesterday and he was just lovely.

Saturday I went out and just spent the whole day at the barn with him, groomed him, and hung out with the barn girls. I wanted to ride, but my body told me that wasn't gonna be an easy task. My sciatic nerve was still making it a chore to get in and out he car. But Sunday when I woke up, it felt a lot better, so I figured I would give it a shot.

Spent the first few hours just hanging out and doing barn chores. My friend Alex was taking her horse up front to ride and jump, so I hand walked North up there with us and let him free graze while I watched her jump. He's most nervous in the front riding area, so I thought it'd be a good idea to just let him graze and explore it on his own. Unfortunately, he decided to stick to one area where all the clovers were.

Afterwards, we came back and I got him tacked up. He was quiet and lovely from start to finish. I rode him in the small area in front of the barn, so we only did walk-trot, but he was responsive. We only rode for about 25 minutes, but I was really happy with what we did, the fact that it didn't hurt much, and I managed to stay in the saddle. This weekend, we are headed to Destin, Fl for a mini vacay with the kids and to meet up with some of my guy's family, so I'm hoping to get in a few rides before then and work on our canter some more. 

Below are just a few shots from yesterday. I LOVE his new bridle and I got a PS of Sweden "James Bond" browband to go with it, so yesterday, we played around and did a little mini photo shoot with it. Alec held up the backside of one of North's sheet to create a photog background for it. It came with a flash, but he doesn't really need one, so if I use it, I always keep it pretty loose.


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## Tihannah

Saw my chiropractor yesterday and feeling SO much better! I really needed that and will likely go back a few more times.

Got a ride in this evening after work and left the barn feeling giddy again about my pony. 

We didn't even do much and didn't ride long, but from the very beginning, I knew it was gonna be a good ride. I walked him over to the mounting block and went to tighten my girth and drop my stirrups. Almost EVERY time I ride, he uses this as an opportunity to try and graze. Not this time. He just stood there while I fixed everything. Then when I walked back around to the side of the block, he walked forward and got right up next to it so I could get on. He's NEVER done that before. I usually have to guide him and line him up where I want him, tell him to whoa a couple times. Tonight he just did it on his own! Once I mounted, he stood quietly and let me get my stirrups.

During the ride, we just did some walk and trot, but really focused on getting clean transitions. The partnership I have with North is like nothing I've ever experienced, and sometimes I wonder what I've done to deserve such a horse. I've mentioned before that I talk to him A LOT during our rides, especially when I'm teaching him something. It's just the fact that I can SEE that he's listening and trying to figure out what I want that truly fascinates me about him and how smart he is. 

We were working on our halt transitions and I was trying to give subtle half-halts with my reins to ask him to stay soft into the halt. Often, when he comes down to halt, he immediately pushes his neck out and up against my hands. But for some reason, he misread my cues, and when I asked him to halt, but soften, he thought I was asking him to back up, and I immediately knew it was my fault. So we stopped and I said, "I'm sorry, baby. I'm confusing you. I know you're trying to figure it out." Then we tried again, and when he got it, I rubbed his neck and gave him lots of praise, and just like that, it clicked. He understood and after that, our halts were soft and lovely and there was no pressure against my hands.

We went through a similar exercise with our walk to trot transitions. And I realize that because I'm not a strong rider, that my aids are probably not as clear as they should be, and I'm SO grateful that I have a horse that still tries hard to figure out what I'm asking. After a few tries, we were able to get one clean upwards transition in each direction, so I lavished him with praise, gave him a peppermint, and ended the ride. I wish you guys could see how he reacts when I tell him "What a good boy!" during our rides. He just eats it up and whatever he gets a "good boy" for, he does his best to keep doing it. We could have easily jumped into some canter work tonight, but he was so good that I felt he deserved the short ride.

So yea, that was our evening. Just so much happiness that kid gives me. He's like my sunshine.


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## LoriF

I'm so glad that you had such a wonderful ride and he looks so handsome in his attire.


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## PoptartShop

So glad you had such a great ride.  LOL, I'm glad I'm not the only one that constantly talks to my horse. I swear...they really do understand. It helps. I see people ride so quietly, I don't get it. :lol: I HAVE to talk to my horse. They really do work off the praise. 

I also think you had a good ride because you just 'knew' it would be a good ride. And I'm sure you relaxing and being positive helped him.  

I think it's great you ended on that note, no need to push it. That is how it should feel. I am glad you are back in the saddle & enjoying your boy. <3 
By the way, he looks super handsome in his new gear!!! What a fancy bridle!!


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## DanteDressageNerd

North looks super handsome and fancy in all his new gear, it looks really good!

I'm sorry you've had a few accidents with him, hate to say it comes with the territory of young horses and no matter how kind 

I think that is the best part of working with a thoroughbred, they want to please and do the right thing. A thoroughbred will give everything they can to please and they try to work out what you want. Sometimes they overthink and then have to stop and take breath to release their anxious energy and let them return to calm but I think they become the most willing partners with a lot of heart. I think they tend to be a bit more mental to ride and that is where some people get hung up. In europe I think most of the riders are used to using force and being able to beat a horse into submission or yank up on draw reins to force submission until the horse tunes out and just does what its told like a machine. Thoroughbreds I dont think will allow that. They're about the partnership and the conversation. 

North looks great you should be proud, even with the bumps along the way. It happens to all of us. I've broken bones, been kicked in the head, multiple concussions. It happens, just gotta dust yourself off be glad you're okay and keep on keeping on. Hope Florida was a great trip.


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## Tihannah

DanteDressageNerd said:


> North looks super handsome and fancy in all his new gear, it looks really good!
> 
> I'm sorry you've had a few accidents with him, hate to say it comes with the territory of young horses and no matter how kind
> 
> I think that is the best part of working with a thoroughbred, they want to please and do the right thing. A thoroughbred will give everything they can to please and they try to work out what you want. Sometimes they overthink and then have to stop and take breath to release their anxious energy and let them return to calm but I think they become the most willing partners with a lot of heart. I think they tend to be a bit more mental to ride and that is where some people get hung up. In europe I think most of the riders are used to using force and being able to beat a horse into submission or yank up on draw reins to force submission until the horse tunes out and just does what its told like a machine. Thoroughbreds I dont think will allow that. They're about the partnership and the conversation.
> 
> North looks great you should be proud, even with the bumps along the way. It happens to all of us. I've broken bones, been kicked in the head, multiple concussions. It happens, just gotta dust yourself off be glad you're okay and keep on keeping on. Hope Florida was a great trip.


Thank you! And yes, I think with any other horse, I would be nervous getting back in the saddle again, but I just don't feel that way with North, even after 3 falls! Lol. I am so grateful that these last two weren't so bad that I couldn't ride. I just know that I have a really great partnership with this horse and he wants to do good and wouldn't intentionally try to get me off and that's enough for me to keep trying.

From the TB's I've seen and experienced and the people that own and work with them regularly, there seems to be consensus that these guys have a very delicate mind. Whereas, if you are a good partner to them, they will give you a 110%, but if they are mistreated, the damage can be long lasting and difficult to get over or work through.

I saw this in a TB mare whose purchase was intended as a lesson horse for more advanced students. She spent 2 months with a trainer, was injured twice, and likely subjected to some harsh treatment. She ended up never being able to be put into the program because she was too spooky and tense and everyone thought she was crazy.

Months later, the former owner's daughter moved down and the mare was brought up. She said that was NOT the same horse they had used at their barn for years as a lesson horse. She said they could put ANYONE on that horse, and that she suspected something was done to her in that time span with the trainer. Although the mare was eventually sold to a teen with no fear who could ride out the spooks and deal with the behavior without reacting, the mare was never really the same. The teen does well with her and events her now, but to this day, no one else will get on her. 

And this is why I'm so protective of North... He's such a clean slate. Never raced, just a handful of training runs. Never sold at auction. He was bred and trained at the same barn before going to the non-profit. He was pampered and given top notch care at the non-profit before he came to me. He's pastured with only one other horse now and handled only by me and 2 other barn friends everyday. He's easy not only because he has a great temperament, but because he has no past scars or trauma, and as long as he's mine, I'm going to do everything I can to keep him that way.


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## Rainaisabelle

I have to admit TBs can be pretty delicate for the big animals they are ****. Roy has pretty average treatment after he finished racing and before he came to me. He's extremely stubborn and not an easy horse to ride/organise. I really feel for him at times, he's a good boy but sometimes you can just tell something isn't all there with him.


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## DanteDressageNerd

I agree. I think a lot are emotionally fragile or sensitive and very impressionable. I think most are pretty right brained and willingly accept confident, clear and fair leadership. With most I've worked with, I've found them very straight forward and honest. I think they could be prone to being over reactive, spooky and emotional but if you are calm and put away the anxious energy towards being calm they're very willing to learn. I think desensitization and giving them clear direction gives them a lot of confidence. And being a stable person, they really reflect your energy and emotions. Making it super important to be aware and how to channel them. I rode some that were really-really nervous and anxious and had to just stand in the middle of the arena when they'd get anxious and over think and help them learn it's not so serious if they dont know the answer and it's okay. Not worth stressing over. And just help them learn to take a breath. I've seen people get mad at them when they ask questions and then they get really nervous, stressed and panic. That's usually when I've seen people with bolting issues or if someone is a nervous person to too loud in the seat. Or that's usually where you'll see the rearing and bucking. They're not confident in the handler or rider and/or are confused. Sometimes can be a test a dominance. I generally dont think of them as being very hot, I think of them as sensitive and forward thinking with an eagerness to please but most I really dont think of as being that hot but in the wrong situation will seem explosive and unpredictable but really it's just them being scared and hitting the panic button. Anxiety. Exception would be Wonder but he is what he is. Very thankful very few horses are wired like him, I think those ones are the ones that either find their forever home or end up being put down. I think a main difference with Wonder and most thoroughbreds is if Wonder were mistreated there is no doubt in my mind he'd go after someone. Heck he struck at me because I wouldn't let him graze on a walk. Most thoroughbreds I think tend to turn inward when mistreated and either have a break down or shut down. Think why peoplethink thoroughbreds are hot and crazy. They're not, just sensitive and in the wrong situation will show behavior a less sensitive horse would not.

Most thoroughbreds I think turn inward when mistreated like the mare and tend to be anxious, nervous, fearful and tense vs calm, relaxed and happy. I retrained a few from not necessarily bad situations but from owners that just didnt know how to work with thoroughbreds or couldn't ride sensitive or it was just a mismatch personality wise. So they'd say the horse was crazy or had rearing, bolting, bucking, etc issues and for the most part I could get them through it pretty quickly. They just needed to know their job and purpose and be confident in their handler or rider. I think when confused and pressured and stressed it's like someone with anxiety. Just need to know the way and have confidence that it will be okay.

It helps a lot to start with a clean slate, can avoid so many issues. When a horse has a backstory it's a lot of work. Emotional and psychological damage can be made better but I dont think it can ever be undone. Especially with especially sensitive horses, they dont forget and if they sense the wrong energy can easily become unglued. North is really lucky to have you and have so much love in his life. I'm glad you've found your horse of a lifetime and partner that you never lose confidence in and can be proud to have. People at the stable may say things when something happens but as you said wait a few years and watch what happens. I think when you have a horse you believe in and you know what they're capable of time is your best friend because they'll show what they can do so others who doubt can see.


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## Tihannah

DanteDressageNerd said:


> It helps a lot to start with a clean slate, can avoid so many issues. When a horse has a backstory it's a lot of work. Emotional and psychological damage can be made better but I dont think it can ever be undone. Especially with especially sensitive horses, they dont forget and if they sense the wrong energy can easily become unglued. North is really lucky to have you and have so much love in his life. I'm glad you've found your horse of a lifetime and partner that you never lose confidence in and can be proud to have. People at the stable may say things when something happens but as you said wait a few years and watch what happens. I think when you have a horse you believe in and you know what they're capable of time is your best friend because they'll show what they can do so others who doubt can see.


^^^LOVE this! Thank you! It is exactly how I feel.

And on more of what you said, I think this is why there are just some riders that don't click with this breed, like my old trainer. She was a competitive type, "ask, tell, demand" type of rider and when that didn't work, she could get strong with a horse. I just don't think her way of riding meshed well with these horses, so she wrote them off. I think that I am an ask, clarify, wait till you figure it out, then PRAISE type of rider. I'm not competitive, so I'm not pushing to achieve some sort of recognition. I only look to improve and build a strong bond with my horse. For me, that is more than enough and everything else is just a bonus.


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## Tihannah

This weekend we had the clinic and I was stoked as always. I LOVE lessoning with John because I just learn so much, not just in my lesson, but watching others in their lessons as well. He spends parts of the lesson in the arena and parts on the sideline giving direction, and I often get the opportunity to sit next to him and shoot a question about the exercises he gives or why a horse is doing this or that, and he really seems to love explaining the mechanics and what he sees.

Saturday was a really good day, and John decided to tackle hind end engagement with us. As much as I wanted to, he would not let me use my reins to soften. But even before this, we were asked to bump our time up a slot, because another rider was waiting on the farrier to finish with her horse and running behind. North had only been unloaded 20 minutes before, so not much time to settle in, but I said okay. Because of my recent mishaps, I asked my old trainer to hop on him and warm him up to get the nervousness out and get his mind right. With her too, John would not let her ask him to soften with the reins. She even said, "He's so soft in the mouth, I can feel it. If I ask even a tiny bit, he'll soften." And John said, "YES! That's what he wants you to do, because that is what he is used to. But that's not what we want. We want to send him out to the contact, not bring it to him." And sure enough, she kept driving him with her seat and legs and down he went right into the bit. It didn't take long to get him focused, so I got in the saddle soon after.

It was, of course, a little harder for me. I'm used to hold my outside rein, pushing him forward with my legs, but also using my inside rein to ask him to soften and round. North is also used to this, and what I learned is that because it's so easy for him to soften and round in the neck, he can kinda cheat from really using his hind and coming under himself, because once he softens, I kinda stop pushing him forward. So yea, it was really ugly for a few minutes, with North running around looking like a giraffe, lol, but man, once he realized that I wasn't going to give it to him, he started coming from behind and went out to the bit, and it was a totally different feeling in the trot. The most John would let me do is lift my inside rein slightly, but other than that, I just had to use my seat and legs and keep sending him out to the bit. He just kept saying, "You don't bring it to him. Let him take the contact from you!" And next thing I knew, there he was, pushing down into my hands and really coming over his back.

We started out on left lead, and when we switched to right lead, it suddenly got much harder. John thought he was showing some weakness in his right hind, which baffled me, because right lead had always been our easier side. We got some good moments, but definitely not as good as left lead. We didn't push it. John is ALL about developing a happy horse and letting things be their idea (like going out to the bit). He remarked several times on what a smart horse North was and how willing he was. Although all horses have one side that's weaker than the other, John said that he wanted to lunge North on Sunday before I rode so he could see how he went without a rider.

Sunday I got him tacked up and fitted with side reins and just watched as John lunged him. He did surprisingly well on the lunge even though I haven't lunged him in a few months. He was really responsive to John and reaching down to the bit, so we moved to under saddle. And that's when the red flags showed up. He was not half as willing as he had been the day before. He didn't want to use his right hind, he felt short strided, didn't really want to stay forward and was tossing his tail about. We stopped after only 10 min and began discussing. John said he didn't think it was a temperament thing because it was hard, but if it was, he didn't want me to be the one to work him through it. He could see that North was a "want to please" horse, but he would rather someone with a stickier seat be the one to push him through it. I reiterated that the right side has always been our easier side, so John had me hop off and started to take a look.

He started feeling and checking his right stifle and when he did, North almost kicked out at him. Just to make sure, he went around and felt the same spot on the left side and then told me to come feel. Sure enough, I could feel it. John said it felt like he had a pocket of fluid in his right stifle. He said it had likely been there for a little while, and the work we did Saturday really making him come under and use his hind, had increased the pain. He said it also explained why North did not appear lame at all, but then didn't want to use himself once under saddle. :-( But he told me that in a young horse, this can be normal with growing pains and the way the play out in the pasture and then begin learning to use themselves. He said it was likely the vet just needed to drain it and relieve the pressure.

He also told me not to worry and he would never think a horse this young would need injections. He has 60 horses at his barn and told me that NONE of them get hock injections. He said people often think that hock injections are necessary at some point. He said jumpers often need hock injections, but dressage horses usually need stifle or SI injections if necessary.

I called the vet this morning and am hoping he will be able to make it out our way on Wednesday. If not, they said it won't be till next week. I also called the chiro and sent her video and talked to her about checking him again as well. After the clinic, we hauled him home and I kept him in last night, just to give him some time to take it easy. Keeping my fingers crossed that this is something simple. 

Below are just a few pics from the clinic. I'll try to post some video later. Just not a whole lot to share since we didn't really ride Sunday and only a little bit from Saturday. And for some odd reason, there was a film over my video from Saturday. I guess I didn't clean my lense very well or something.


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## carshon

I cannot even begin to tell you how much I loved your post. Not because North is sore (I am sorry to hear that) but because there is a trainer out there that says - lets not push through this, lets not just go to chemical solutions - lets wait and see how the horse heals himself.


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## Tihannah

carshon said:


> I cannot even begin to tell you how much I loved your post. Not because North is sore (I am sorry to hear that) but because there is a trainer out there that says - lets not push through this, lets not just go to chemical solutions - lets wait and see how the horse heals himself.


This, too, is what I love about John. He is ALL about the horse. I've seen him cut multiple lessons short because a horse looked uncomfortable or off. He simply will not try and make a horse "push through" and he definitely won't try and "force" a horse to do anything or push them beyond their physical or mental limits. He takes into account age, conformation, training, fitness and rider ability and then applies the best approach, so there are no two lessons alike.

A key example is the TB mare that pastures with North. She's VERY opinionated and often looks angry during rides with pinned ears because she is being asked to do things that are difficult for her. The lesson with John was probably the first time that I ever saw her being ridden where she wasn't getting upset and was being allowed to figure things out on her own time, yet they got the desired result-just in a happy horse. She looked so content and WILLING to try and do the work and it was really eye opening.

He has such a great eye on what is affecting each horse and WHY they are doing what they're doing or why they are going a certain way that it's fascinating to watch him teach. I would give anything to be able to lesson with him on a regular basis.


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## PoptartShop

So happy you had a good clinic.  I love how John explains things, and breaks them down. I love it! Sounds like he wants what is best for the horse  And that is important, how a trainer SHOULD be. And letting the horse come to the bit on their own, yes!!! I love it!
You guys look really good.  Definitely an eye-opener, in one lesson you can learn SO much. So much to process!

I am sorry to hear that about North's stifles, poor baby. :sad: Keep us posted on the vet visit, and crossing my fingers it's something simple. Try not to worry, although I know it's hard, it's your baby!


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## Tihannah

Not from riding, but video from the clinic of John lunging North to the right. If you skip to 1:50, I start to ask questions and he starts explaining what he sees and what he's doing.


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## Tihannah

Vet came yesterday. He said North was definitely hurting and it was definitely the stifle. He had his assistant take him out and hand trot him and noted that he was dragging his right toe. He then told her trot him in a circle. He went left and showed a little resistance, but went she tried to trot him right, he only took a couple steps before he pulled back and threw his head around. Vet said that was enough.

He said that he'd strained it and had likely caused some bleeding, hence the pocket of fluid, though it had already gone down since Sunday. He said this was normal in young, growing horses and something that usually resolves itself as they get older and stronger, but in the meantime, we should go ahead and blister the stifle to tighten the joint and relieve him of the pain. He decided to go ahead and blister both stifles. He said the left wasn't bad, but it wouldn't strengthen both and give us time to build up the strength in both without causing him any discomfort. I've never done this procedure, so I asked a lot of questions. He said to keep him in regular work and riding and to give him as much turnout as possible, which I already do. The whole thing took maybe 10 minutes. They sedated him, and then shot a needle of stuff into both joints. Done. Vet said he would follow up with us in a month to see how he was doing. When he woke up from the sedation, I turned him out, and headed back to work to read up more on blistering.

For the most part, it did seem to be common in young horses, and blistering seems to be an old practice. Some of the stuff I read on various forums made me a little nervous. Some people said they didn't like it and it could be painful for the horse. My vet said it's only painful if they aren't being worked and getting enough turnout to keep the joint active.

After work I headed to the barn. My friend had already brought him in for feeding, so I asked her how he was coming in. She said he was great. I decided to lunge him...

The difference was nothing short of amazing. He was a totally different horse on the lunge-from that morning even! We started on left lead, and from the start, he had a nice, forward moving walk where he was tracking up and moving through his whole body and it only took a few minutes before he was reaching down to the bit. The trot was more of the same and I was shocked at how quickly he started stretching down. His nose was practically tickling the grass as he trotted. We did a couple walk-trot transitions and there was no objections from him, no tail swishing, no head tossing, no giraffe, nothing.

Then we changed to the right. I could see at first that he was a little cautious since this had been his bad side, but after several strides, it was like he realized it didn't hurt anymore, and just totally relaxed, let go, and went to work. We picked up the trot and went a few circles before I realized... I'd never attached the side reins! Lol. So he'd been forward, tracking up, and coming over his back down to the bit, without any help or encouragement from the side reins! I did go ahead and attach them and he went right back into work mode, immediately stretching and reaching down for the bit. This was RIGHT LEAD, and there was not a moment of objection. Again, he showed no signs of discomfort, no tail swishing, nothing. His walk was just beautiful- big, forward moving strides. I could even ask for more impulsion without him jumping into the trot. I couldn't believe it and lavished him with praise.

In the end, I felt bad. I should've caught this sooner and realized he was hurting. He's such a good baby and a willing horse that I should have known he had a reason to be fussing or objecting to the work. He looked like a different horse last night. If he would have felt that good for the clinic last weekend, he would've blown everyone away. Anyhow, another lesson learned about my baby. We're supposed to be riding in another clinic on Saturday, but things are still up in the air, so we'll see. I'm just happy he is okay now and not hurting anymore. Poor baby.


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## seabiscuit91

Stifles are such ******s. 

Definitely keep him in as much work as you can, it's amazing how much better they get, they just need to be active. It's the same with sticky/locking stifles, even though if you've never seen one it can look a bit.. awful to keep working them, it helps so much and they get so much better with more work. 

He is looking so great Tina!


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## greentree

I am so glad you finally got a diagnosis! I am glad he is feeling better!


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## PoptartShop

So glad he will be okay, I know that is such a relief. We always expect the worst. It's great that you were able to continue to work him!  What a good boy, I'm so happy you had such a nice lunge session, and yay for no giraffe or head tossing. He is definitely starting to understand a lot more. 

I know, it's hard to distinguish between them just being kids, or in pain. :lol: I wouldn't have known either! They are so willing. So glad he is starting to feel better already. Sooo excited for your next clinic even though it's a bit far away, still!


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## Tihannah

Lunged him after work again tonight. I still have butterflies from watching him go...

I seriously thought it was a training/strength thing. That he didn't yet fully understand how to use his hind. The reason he threw his head up and jigged into a trot when I asked for impulsion at the walk. The reason it took time to get him to release through his back, relax, and stretch into the work. Why it was so much work to get clean transitions. I could not have been more wrong.

It all looked so natural and easy for him tonight. It was nothing for him to jump into the trot without throwing his head up. We lunged for 20 minutes in both directions and he never threw his head up once. It was nothing for him to transition down and keep moving in a big, forward walk. He loved stretching over his back and it was lovely. He's never been so easy on the lunge.

Tomorrow we ride... I'm excited. Will try to get video.


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## Tihannah

Weather wasn't great this weekend, but we managed to ride both days. Hadn't rode him since the clinic, and felt a little rusty in the saddle. Despite all this, he was great, and I was so happy to see and feel how well he was doing. Right off the back, his trot felt totally different in the saddle. 

For context, this is a short clip from the clinic last weekend. I watch this now and just wanna smack myself for not instantly realizing there was an issue more than just weakness. I could barely keep him forward and his hind end just seems to be dragging out behind him.






And this is us this past Saturday. THIS, this is the horse I've always seen in North and knew I had. I'm honestly not sure how I lost sight of him. My stirrups are too long, and I think I need to get my saddle re-flocked. His body has changed since he was last fitted, and it doesn't help that he's a bit croup high and growing, but it dips down in the front despite having shims and pitches me forward. I think it may be a little too wide for him now. So now I'm on the hunt for a decent saddle fitter that can adjust it for me. It was a good weekend, and I'm really excited to keep progressing with him throughout the year.


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## PoptartShop

What a difference from the first video to the second. You could tell he was uncomfortable in the first video & dragging a bit, but honestly, he's still a baby so it's not your fault for not noticing that, or thinking anything of it. Cut yourself some slack! I am glad he is feeling better, he looks amazing! Your stirrups do look a bit long, they could probably go up a hole or so. But longer is better.

I hope you can find a good saddle fitter, then you will be more comfortable. So glad you had a great weekend <3 Just think, the next clinic will be even better!!!


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## Tihannah

Decided to lunge North last night after work. We usually only do walk and trot on the lunge, but I decided we need to start building on his canter work. Now, I don't know anything about track training, but I am CERTAIN, that he carries some residual scars from something they did or whatever method they used to try and get him faster.

Walk-trot on the lunge is easy peasy. He shows no real fear of the lunge whip, but responds well to it. Canter is a different story, and one of the reasons I kinda stopped lunging him. But since we've been doing a little canter work with him under saddle, I thought things would be a little different. He tends to get strong on the lunge in the canter, so I asked my friend Alex to step in and do the canter part for me. Just as before, it was nuts. 

We forgot that you can't have the lunge whip in your hand when you ask for the canter. I can't explain why it doesn't bother him with walk and trot, but if you ask for canter with a lunge whip in your hand, he immediately tries to bolt and you have to plant your feet or he will drag you. If you somehow get him to canter without bolting, then he's crazy running fast around you like a mad person. Alex just slightly tossed the lunge rope out trying to untangle it while he was cantering and he startled, jumped back, and tried to bolt again. He was clearly frightened and shaken up, so I told her to let me take over.

He knows me better and knows I would never hurt him. As soon as I asked him to move out though, he anticipated the canter and jumped into a fast trot. So I used my voice to soothe him and bring him back, just telling him it was okay, and mom was here now. I could see the change instantly. He came back down to a normal, but forward trot, and started stretching down again. I let him relax before I started to ask for the canter again. But I didn't do it the way she did. She would say, "Caaaan-ter!" and kinda flick the rope at him. I didn't flick it at all. He knows what canter means, so when I asked for it, I asked in a soft soothing voice, and he went into a faster trot. I told him it was okay and asked for canter and I kinda walked with him asking for more until I eased him into the canter. He took only a couple strides before breaking to trot, but I praised him heavily and let him relax again, before asking. I used my voice and body language more than anything, just trying to let him know it was okay, and just like that, he gave me a beautiful canter without running or trying to pull back. We got 2 lovely canter circles in both directions and I praised him and ended it letting him know what a good boy he was.

So now we have something more to work on. I want to get him over this. The only thing I can imagine is that someone chased him with a whip or something trying to get him run faster and it must have been traumatizing for him. He came off the track in March of last year and I've had him since July of last year, yet it still terrifies him when someone asks him to canter with a lunge whip or on the lunge line. He is not like this AT ALL when you ask for the canter under saddle. So now I'm going to try and lunge him at least 3 times a week to work on this, and I won't let anyone else do it. He trusts me more than anyone and I want to teach him that it is okay.


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## PoptartShop

That is very interesting. I think it does have something to do with the track, because I've noticed Promise has the same kind of issue (with cantering on the lunge) with the whip. She goes CRAZY, but under saddle, she's not speedy gonzales at the canter (most of the time anyway). If I put the whip down, things go much smoother. But it's something they have to get over, in time. I think in time you will be able to get him over this, it is just probably so stuck in his mind, from the track. He's only been off of it a little over a year, so it makes sense. Especially since it's not under-saddle, only on the lunge. Sounds like they chased after him on the ground with the whip & when you simply ask him with it, he automatically thinks GO! 

A lot of OTTB's have some sort of 'PTSD' from the track. They definitely take some stuff with them when they leave the track. Flicking the rope probably triggered something in his mind & caused him to react like that. Keep working at it though, he will eventually learn it means no harm, & that you just want him to canter smoothly, not like a speedracer.


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## Tihannah

PoptartShop said:


> That is very interesting. I think it does have something to do with the track, because I've noticed Promise has the same kind of issue (with cantering on the lunge) with the whip. She goes CRAZY, but under saddle, she's not speedy gonzales at the canter (most of the time anyway). If I put the whip down, things go much smoother. But it's something they have to get over, in time. I think in time you will be able to get him over this, it is just probably so stuck in his mind, from the track. He's only been off of it a little over a year, so it makes sense. Especially since it's not under-saddle, only on the lunge. Sounds like they chased after him on the ground with the whip & when you simply ask him with it, he automatically thinks GO!
> 
> A lot of OTTB's have some sort of 'PTSD' from the track. They definitely take some stuff with them when they leave the track. Flicking the rope probably triggered something in his mind & caused him to react like that. Keep working at it though, he will eventually learn it means no harm, & that you just want him to canter smoothly, not like a speedracer.


It is weird. I wonder if that's how they taught them to shoot out the gate? Cause that's literally how he acts - like a gun was shot off behind him and he has to run for his life. Poor baby.


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## PoptartShop

Yes, that's exactly what it looks like. I assume so, I don't know much about the track, but that makes sense. It's like in that moment they don't pay attention to anything else but the thought of GOING. Once he sees the flick of that whip, it sets it off. Promise does the same thing, it's hard to get that out of their minds. She used to do it at a trot on the ground, now she doesn't, but at the canter it's definitely a work in progress. 

It's definitely a trigger. Cause that was all they were used to. :sad: Like all they know is to go, nobody ever coaxed them or were patient with them. 

I agree, you should solely work with him on this. Nobody else. You know him best and he confides in you. Maybe for the other girl flicking the rope & saying 'CAAAN-TER' works for her horse or other horses, but not with a young ottb! Nope. They just assume that means GO, as fast as you can.


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## carshon

Hmmmmm- can you put that in training issue? I know there are those on here that have track experience and could shed some light on it. I am very curious. For what its worth when I was young we were taught that horses should lunge on voice command and should never bolt into the canter (these were 4-H horses not OTTB) but my daughter has worked for a local trainer that last couple of years and all of her horses get on the lunge and are crazy and are chased with a whip. We do not lunge horses at home so she asked me why they did this and I said it was a short cut - because teaching a horse to lunge correctly takes time.


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## Tihannah

carshon said:


> Hmmmmm- can you put that in training issue? I know there are those on here that have track experience and could shed some light on it. I am very curious. For what its worth when I was young we were taught that horses should lunge on voice command and should never bolt into the canter (these were 4-H horses not OTTB) but my daughter has worked for a local trainer that last couple of years and all of her horses get on the lunge and are crazy and are chased with a whip. We do not lunge horses at home so she asked me why they did this and I said it was a short cut - because teaching a horse to lunge correctly takes time.


I've always worked with him using verbal first. The whip is just more or less there as a backup and when used, we just kinda hit the ground with it. I also use it as a visual tool. I create sort of a "V" with my arms with the lunge rope as an extension of one and the whip as an extension of the other. When he's asked to move forward, the whip stays raised and when I ask for whoa or halt, the whip is lowered to the ground. But I've never had to chase him with it. He will often spot that I've lowered the whip and take that as the signal to slow. He does not react at all when you tap the ground at walk or trot, but just the slightest flick at canter and he flips out. So that is what baffles me. Cause he even did it when Alex flicked the lunge line and had already tossed the whip to the side, and he was a good 8 ft away from her.

It was even worse in the beginning because he would pull back so hard, he'd come right out of his halter, so I had to stop lunging him in a halter.


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## Tihannah

Lunged North again tonight and managed to get the canter in both directions, on the correct lead each time, without ANY dramatics whatsoever. I was so proud of him and really tickled at the relationship I have with this horse. Without a doubt, he trusts me, and I love that. He SO wants to please, and really looks to me for guidance, and I thoroughly enjoy the relationship we have. 

I didn't push him or make a big deal out of it. I just talked him through it and used my body language to get the canter...literally! Lol. I literally had to simulate the canter for him to get him to pick it up and then lots of praise. But the funny part is, in order to keep him going, I had to canter with him! Lol. And when I stopped, he stopped. It didn't matter. Whatever made him feel comfortable. It was like, "Look what mom's doing!" and right on cue, he would pick up the canter and circle around me as long as I kept simulating the canter motion with my body and praising him. He never got worked up or frightened and really looked rather proud of himself for getting it. He is such a fun baby and a joy to teach. 

Tomorrow I hope to ride.


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## PoptartShop

YAY!!!  I knew he would get it if you were doing it, not anyone else. He trusts you. <3
That is good!! Whatever works ya know?! Anything to help him understand what you're asking, even if you look silly doing it! :lol:

So glad you are making so much progress.


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## Tihannah

Had a great lesson last night after work. The weather was so nice - low 70s, cool breeze. It was perfect. North was an absolute saint and really tried so hard for me and it felt like we accomplished so many things. It's funny too, cause I was really nervous about putting him back on alfalfa. I started adding the soaked cubes to his AM meals a little over a week ago to try and add back some of the weight he lost over the winter. Last year, I'd had him on alfalfa hay and the 2 loads we picked up were really rich and green and he started acting like a nut. Lol. But I figured that maybe the cubes wouldn't be as bad, and sure enough, it's really strange, but he almost seems calmer and more level headed. Lol.

Anyhow, we really worked with Helen on our transitions and responsiveness. This kid is so freakin smart, it amazes me sometimes. He just really works hard to try and figure out what you're asking, and then once he figures it out, really tries hard to get it right each time. Helen was surprised at how much more forward he is since we blistered the stifle. He was SO good while we worked on the transitions that when Helen said, "Okay! Let's try and canter now!" I felt no reservations at all. 

Usually, I ask Helen to get on and canter him first or I feel a little nervous about it. We were also working in the smaller area in front of the barn, and I've never cantered him over there, just because its right between the road and pasture fencing and there's not a whole lot of room. But he felt so steady eddy throughout the entire lesson and was really listening and focused, so I said, "Let's do it!"

I really do get in my own way a lot. My position, my hands, trying to make it perfect. A few times I felt him getting frustrated with me like, "Mom! What are you doing?? I'm trying to canter!" Lol. But eventually, Helen talked me through it, and we got a "decent" canter in both directions. But this is what I love so much about him. Despite me being a novice rider who makes a lot of mistakes, he puts up with me and still tries so hard. Despite falling off of him 3 times now, I don't feel afraid when I ride him. I feel like he tries to take care of me, and despite what some people think or feel in regards to horses and their interactions or behaviors with us, I really do feel like he loves and trusts me or at least knows that I love him and take care of him. He's just different with me than he is with other people, and I believe it's because of the bond I have with him. There are days when I go out and don't ride. I either just lunge him or hang out grooming him and spending time with him. On several occasions, he has not wanted me to turn him back out. He has literally planted his feet and not wanted to go. And then when I turn him out, he just stands there at the gate staring at me. I've never had a horse that didn't want to be turned out. Lol.

After our lesson last night, I gave him a quick bath, and then turned him out so I could get some barn chores done. After everything was done, I went and got a couple flakes of hay and walked out to the pasture. It had gotten dark and I couldn't see him anywhere up front. So I called out to him a few times, and as soon as I got inside the gate, I could hear him coming. Galloping from the back of the pasture. What a great feeling...

Below are a few shots my friend Alex got from our ride. I thought they were pretty cool with the sun setting behind us. Also a couple shots from our canter. Like I said, they're aren't great, and clearly, I don't know how to sit deep (lol), but I was really proud of both of us. We managed to canter 20m circles without any craziness.


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## PoptartShop

So glad you had such a good lesson, and you cantered!  You guys look fantastic. You truly have an amazing bond, it's the best feeling when your horse chooses you over the pasture! :lol: So cute. The canter will get better the more you practice, and your seat will too. Don't be so hard on yourself!
The shots are great! I love the sunset.


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## Tihannah

I had morning barn duty this weekend, so I was out early both days. Helen and Alex went to a show in Georgia, so took care of the AM shift to make sure all the horses were fed and taken care of. Even though I'm at a self-care barn, we're kind of spoiled because Alex has basically made it her job to be there every day to feed. She has 2 horses there, but is also paid to care for 3 others, so often just goes ahead and feeds everyone, since most of us have to work early mornings and I live 40 min away. 

Saturday I didn't ride. The weather was kinda gloomy and threatening rain, so I just fed the horses, pampered my kid, and turned everyone back out. Sunday was absolutely beautiful, so I couldn't pass up the chance to ride.

North has been getting better and better each ride with transitions and responsiveness and just staying forward in the trot. It really has taken time for me to adjust to this new way of going. I can't tell you how many times I felt like he was running with me and brought him back in the trot, to go back later and watch the video to realize that nope, he was nicely forward as he should be. Downward transitions are SO good, but I've really been struggling with upward transitions. We worked on it in our last lesson with Helen and there was a lot of improvement, but when I rode Sunday, I noticed that when he initially pushes off, he's going up instead of forward to resist throwing his neck out and pushing against my hands, and then needs a few strides to adjust and get forward. 

I sent video to Helen and she said that yes, it looks like he doesn't know how to really push off from his hind. So he kind of tip toes into the trot, then pushes his head out, then softens and gets a more forward moving stride. I told her that she will probably have to hop on him and teach him this, as I don't think I can, or I'm not making it clear enough. It's almost as if he's saying, "I can either tip toe trot without throwing my front end forward or I need to giraffe a few strides to get the momentum and then soften."

So I watched the videos of our ride a lot and found that I'm REALLY inconsistent in my contact. I'm constantly changing or adjusting my rein length and they're always uneven from outside to inside rein. I have the tendencies to allow my inside rein to be longer or more slack because I'm always pushing him into my outside rein. So last night I rode again, and really focused on keeping a consistent contact and keeping my reins even. It took us about 15-20 minutes to get it sorted out, but I realized that once HE realized I was going to stay consistent, he was able to figure out where or how he was supposed to be through the transitions and maintain it. We got some LOVELY upwards transitions, and oh, I'm getting a lot better at keeping my heels down! Lol.

Tonight we have another lesson with Helen and hopefully I can get it again. We've also been talking about doing an online dressage show. It was posted recently in some of the local FB groups. It's inexpensive, we don't have to travel, and we can get some good feedback on where we are with our horses. You just have to have someone video your dressage test, and submit it with your entry form and fee($19). No show crowds and no pressure and it gives you things to work on for real shows. I think it could be really beneficial for us at our barn.

Anyhow, these two were my favorite pics from Sunday. It was such a beautiful day. I really hope it's the same this coming weekend. My lil puff & stuff is so freakin handsome and really starting to look like a big boy. Sometimes I can't believe he's mine. <3

P.S. His right hind wrap looks kinda funny. It's a hybrid type wrap (half fleece/half elastic), and though I love them, if I don't wrap them JUST right, one of the hind ones will slip down at the bottom.


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## Rainaisabelle

You guys look really good, I love how Intune you are with what's going on during your ride!!


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## Tihannah

Sooo...lesson didn't really happen. The past few days, North had been acting really funny about me brushing him on his right side. Actually snapping at me, even using the softest brush. But no reaction to actual tacking up, girthing, or bad behavior riding. I figured maybe he'd gotten some bug bites that irritated his skin or something. But at the beginning of our lesson, as soon as I picked up the trot, Helen said he looked off in his right hind. :-/

I hopped off and she hand trotted him and sure enough, I could see it. The right hind was sticky. So we canceled the lesson and I texted the chiro and asked if she could come out and look at him before I called the vet. She had a hectic schedule and was traveling but said she would stop in last night on her way to the next town. When I got to the barn last night, they told me he had kicked out at 2 of the girls. One for just trying to turn him around in his stall and get his halter on!

So when the chiro showed up, I told her he was being really grumpy and to be careful. I was worried for her. He didn't want to even let me put his halter on for her to come into his stall. I went to get a peppermint and she said, "Put that away!" She marched right into his stall and said "Come here!" and he stood and let her put it on. Lol. What was I thinking? She'd already worked on 12 horses that day.

She checked his neck, his back, his hind. He had ONE tiny spot out in his lower back on the right and that was it! And then she said to me, "The problem was 10% his back, 90% his mind." I basically have him done every month and try to stay on top of any and everything that ails him, so when he gets one little ouchy and doesn't want to work, he goes to the extreme. I typically ride him for 25 min 2-3 days a week, mostly on the weekends, and take numerous walk breaks. This week, I tried to ride him 3 days in a row, and on the 3rd day he said, "Nope. Too much. Can't do it." She and the vet both said I have to work him through it. She said he's lazy, and spoiled, and knows how to push my buttons. She touched him all over and he never flinched. 

So she gave me a remedy. She said she just got done treating another girl's horse that used to board with us. I remember her getting so frustrated with her horse (barrel racer), that she sent him off to a trainer for awhile, and he still came back the same. But now, he's KILLING it at shows, and she can't even believe it.

So apparently, my chiro is really into homeopathic treatments, and she said we're going to do a detox on him. She pulled out this big case with all these vials in it and started mixing some tubes right there. She gave me 3 tubes. He gets a tiny cap full just dropped on the inside of his lip. One tube, once a day for 7 days, then skip a day, then the other tube for 7 days. We skip a day, and then he gets the last dose. She said I will see big improvement for the first 3-4 days and then he may take a downturn. She said no matter what, to keep working him through it, and then he will go on the upswing again. That if I see any odd behavior, to just call her. She gave him the first dose and he loved it and she said it tasted like sugar. She said it would clean all the toxins out of his system and help get his mind evened out about the work. She said in 3 weeks, he will be amazing, but she gave me a little extra of the final dose and said I may have to give him more in 5-6 weeks. I walked him out to the pasture, and sure enough, as soon as I turned him loose, he went galloping across the field, not a single sign of lameness!

When I got home, I texted the girl who did the same treatment on her barrel horse. She said the difference was incredible. That at the last show she was exhausted and hurting, and that he basically ran the pattern on his own and she was just a passenger and he still killed it. I don't know anything about homeopathic treatments, but I love my chiro, and how she works with horses, so I guess it's worth a shot.

The funny thing is that I've been so worried about doing TOO MUCH with North, that I've essentially created a monster that only wants to do just enough. I've been doing 25 minute walk trot sets with him for 7 months and now that I'm asking for more, he's like, "Nope. Nope. Too hard. Don't feel like it." and I give in because he's my baby and I don't want to push him. He didn't even break a sweat our last couple rides. Lol.

So I guess now I've got to stop babying him. I'm only asking him to do what he's capable of, and if I'm ever going to get him stronger, then he has to actually break a sweat. Lol. So yea, I guess we'll see what happens with this detox thing and our rides this weekend.


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## PoptartShop

I am glad it was only a tiny spot! Gosh, North! :lol: All that kicking for one little spot?! He knows how to keep you on your toes!
Glad it wasn't anything serious. It's very hard not to baby a baby. Asking more of him will be good though, just keep it consistent. Then he will learn ok, I have to work a bit harder! :lol: He will gain confidence that way. You will have to start pushing him, you aren't being mean, he just needs to know he can't always do the bare minimum, push him a bit. Test his limits a little, challenge him. I think he will do just fine!

The detox thing sounds really interesting. I hope it helps.  I've never heard of it on horses before, only humans!


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## knightrider

This is so interesting! I always enjoy your posts and look forward to the next installment.


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## KigerQueen

well some hit their terrible 3s late lol! but he is a good boy and just needs to learn that he cant grump at people like that.


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## Rainaisabelle

Babies are hard sometimes. They will push you in the most subtle of ways to see if they can take an inch. Theo does it and he’s not even 2!! He is the coolest baby ever but if he’s had enough then he just stop doing what you want. Persistence is key that’s what I’ve learned you have to want it more then them. 

They’re good fun though and I’ve probably learnt a lot more in this year with Theo then in the last 4 with Roy in regards to ground work.


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## Tihannah

This weekend was...well, WOW! Lol. We did the first treatment on Wednesday. I didn't go out on Thursday because of really severe weather and Friday because we were Spring Cleaning the house, so Alex gave him his doses for those days. When I went out on Saturday, they said he'd still been acting up on the ground. Reared twice being brought in for breakfast with Alex just because he didn't want to be lead, but walk in on his own. Tried to bite her a couple times. Thank goodness she's great at handling horses. She worked at my old barn for 3 years handling 30 horses a day, so she doesn't let them get away with anything. Friday morning, he somehow got out of his stall, and sent everyone into a panic when they realized he was missing. They found him grazing behind the barn. It also doesn't help that the mares in the neighboring pasture are all in season.

So anyhow, I get to the barn Saturday, and am briefed on my little monster. I declare that I'm taking him off alfalfa again. It's been over 2 weeks since I added the cubes back to his diet, hoping he wouldn't get crazy again, but I immediately thought that it must be the culprit. He acted up a bit when I went to bring him in for breakfast, and later when I tried to go in his stall to get his halter on, and he moved away and turned his butt to me! I popped him with end of the lead rope. Clearly someone had lost his mind! He let me get the halter on and I brought him out to groom. Again, he's being funny about being brushed, but I finally saw it. Right behind his shoulder, he had 5 or 6 big bug bites. So after checking him, I brush him everywhere but where the bites are, and once he realized I wasn't going to touch them, he settled and let me groom him with no objections. What's weird is that the bites weren't visible before. I guess it took a few days for them to swell up? So that solved that mystery.

I knew I wanted to ride, but based on his recent behavior, I decided it was probably safer to lunge him first. But the weird part was that as soon as I started tacking him up, he got quiet as a mouse, just standing patiently. Okay... I decided I wanted to try riding him in the front riding area. We hadn't ridden up there in awhile and I really wanted to work in our makeshift dressage arena. I had Alex tag along as our ground support.

Right away he went to work on the lunge. He was listening and responsive and seemed to have no qualms about working. Usually he's a bit looky and nervous when we work up front. It was really windy, and the road next to the barn was pretty active, but he didn't seem bothered by any of it. I was shocked. We did WTC on the lunge for about 15 min, but his behavior was so solid, that I felt no doubts about riding him.

I gotta tell you. I have ZERO clue what was in the vials the chiro gave me. Today he got his 5th dose before we rode. I lunged him today too before riding AND we rode up front again. He was AMAZING. I swear, EVERY SINGLE RIDE, we spend 15-25 min just trying to get him focused and listening and MOVING. Not yesterday or today. He wasn't looky, or nervous, tense or distracted. Today, there was another boarder working her horse just outside the arena, and her horse was running around like a crazy person. North barely glanced at them. I couldn't believe it. And he was so down to work! It was odd. Lol. Whenever I asked, he just said, "Okay, let's do it!" During both rides, mistakes were 95% my fault. 

When I say he was good? I mean all parts. Even cantering on the lunge. He didn't get worked up or dramatic, and even started stretching in the canter on right lead! Mounting and dismounting he was a saint. Stood quietly while I got my stirrups. He had ONE small spook yesterday at a paper cup in the grass, but we never stopped, and he went right back into work mode like we didn't skip a beat. This weekend, he acted more like a 6 or 8yr old than a 4yr old, and I was just SO proud. I didn't canter him in the saddle, but I kinda wish I had. We were just on such a good streak that I didn't want to push my luck. Lol. So yea, no clue what's going on with ground North, but work North is on point and I love it! So for now, I'm gonna keep him on the alfalfa. He's filling out really nice.

After our ride today, I gave him a bath and turned him out. He looked so shiny and gorgeous standing out there in the pasture that I snapped a photo. Then tried to run in there, to get some better shots. Of course, he saw me coming and immediately decided to roll. Lol. This kid...he's so freakin cute!




























And finally, I got videos from both days of riding, but I'm still going through today's ride. As most of you know, I am a HUGE fan of Game of Thrones, and as we were re-watching all the old seasons to prepare for the new season, I found a song from the Season 6 soundtrack that I LOVE and want to use one day for a freestyle with North. I love it so much, and since we're still a few years away from qualifying for a freestyle, my guy helped me use it for our video. I really wish we knew more and were ready to do more, but all in due time right? Like I said, most of the mistakes were my fault, and please try not to dwell on my still crappy position and training level skill. Lol. We're both getting better each day.


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## greentree

You can’t feel how off he is?


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## gottatrot

TBs can be dramatic, but I don't think it's 90% in his mind. He moves like something is sore and I'd try to figure it out or at least give him some time off to see if it improves rather than push him through it.


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## Tihannah

Here is video from Sunday and you can see he is moving better. He had 4 days off in that video. The vet blistered his stifle and said I HAVE to keep him working in order to get through the stiffness. I thought I mentioned that earlier. As you can see in Sunday's video, he looks better. The blistering makes the joint tighter, so you have to keep them in regular work to keep it from getting sore and stiff. Thanks for the concern.

I should also add that when North hurts, he doesn't hide it. He's not inclined to work, swishes tail and tosses his head a lot. Let me know if you see a lot of that in this video.


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## PoptartShop

I agree with you Tina.
He looks a LOT better in the second video from yesterday. If he had 4 days off, it's understandable he was stiff like that. Again, if he wasn't exercised, he was bound to be a bit stiff because as you said, the blistering makes the joint tighter. Your vet told you to work him, you are doing what your vet said to do. Which is pretty reasonable. He's not swishing his tail or showing any signs in the second video that he's in pain/uncomfortable. 

EXACTLY. TB's do NOT hide it either if they don't feel well. If he was swishing his tail & throwing his head, you'd know he was feeling crappy. Definitely looks way better in that video. You aren't doing any strenuous work with him either.

I am glad he is more inclined to work, it sounds like that stuff is working!  LOL omg don't they always roll after they get hosed off? Like come on now! But it's the cutest thing ever. :lol:


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## gottatrot

Tihannah said:


> The vet blistered his stifle and said I HAVE to keep him working in order to get through the stiffness. I thought I mentioned that earlier.


Then his movement makes perfect sense. I missed that the vet had done a treatment, and only read about the chiro saying one tiny spot was sore, and homeopathic treatments, which seemed like they would not be causing him to move like that. But blistered stifles...definitely. 

:smile:


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## jaydee

Those bug bites - do you by chance have Lyme Disease in your area? 
If your horse was in my area a vet would suspect Lyme Disease - fractious behavior and soreness/stiffness are key symptoms.


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## Tihannah

Just wanted to say a Thank You to those of you that have followed this short journey and maybe? enjoyed it. Haha. 

I waited till I was almost 40 to fulfill my lifelong dream of owning a horse and I have enjoyed every moment of it, even the tough ones. North is my absolute joy and release from the stress of daily life and I very much look forward to the years to come with him. 

Unfortunately, I've decided that I have shared enough. For those I am friends with, you know you can always see my updates on FB.

I hope you all have many great rides! 

-Tina & North


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## Tihannah

*Just decided to pop in and say Hello!*

It's been 2 years since I've posted here, and North and I both have gone through quite a bit of growth and are in a very happy place, so I thought I'd post an update for those that remember us and the start of our journey together and perhaps share a little that may help others. I don't think I will be updating regularly, but I thought it would be nice to just pop in and let a few old forum friends know that we are indeed still around.  

I think I must have fell and smacked my head on the pavement when I decided to adopt a 3yr old off the track thoroughbred with a whole 4 years of riding under my belt! Haha. Fractured my lower back in 2 places and a concussion simply because my seat was about as sticky as a slip and slide! Needless to say, I've learned so much the past 2 years. And North? Well, he's 6 yrs old now, my absolute heart, and couldn't get me off now if he tried! Lol.

While I would love to say that our journey of growth was mostly growth through learning, we unfortunately went through long battles with lameness, and it is one of the reasons I wanted to share. It's not something you see everyday when trying to figure out wth is wrong now?? In addition to a fabulous new trainer that spent most of her career developing young horses, we finally found a new vet after several wrong diagnosis by my old vet. Thinking back, I would almost say it was the licking your finger and sticking it in the air type diagnosis. 😕 The new vet is fabulous. He's thorough and went right to work addressing issues we were dealing it - xrays, ultrasounds, etc. We'd get him going sound again and in 2-3 months, almost like clockwork, something else would pop up. I could almost set my watch to it. Not always the same issue, but it kind of rotated between 2-3 different things.

This past summer things were really coming to a head. Between my vet, farrier, chiro and muscle worker, we'd addressed EVERYTHING, but North was still telling me things weren't right. It had gotten to the point where he wouldn't even trot more than a few strides under saddle. And yes, we had his saddle checked. In June, a well respected clinician came into town after almost 2 years because of Covid. He met with us the day before the clinic to do a private lesson and I told him about all our woes. He watched us go under saddle and then had me hop off and began checking North over. Saddle - fit. Hind end - looked fine. He looked at his hooves, stood him up square and said, "His right front leg is longer than his left. Tell your farrier not to bring that hoof up anymore or he's gonna be even more crooked." We continued the lesson, but MAN it was ugly just trying to get North to cooperate and trot around the arena without a fight.

My farrier came out a few days later and I told him what the clinician said and it was like a lightbulb went off. "THAT'S why he's still overloading that front right!!" From the day North came to me, his front right hoof was always lower and flatter than the left. So the farrier, trainer and I had been working to get him to stop overloading that hoof through trimming and riding. It has improved A LOT, but what we didn't realize was that it was what was causing the imbalance in his body that led to the breaking down every few months. So my farrier had an idea. He said North was a crooked table we had to fix. His solution was to put a wedge under his left front and right hind only, to help him shift the weight. It was the first time I'd ever seen North grazing in the pasture and standing almost square. He always grazed splayed out with his right front stretched way out in front of him.

That was the beginning of the change. After that, I decided to start over and slowly build him back up. I had a new friend at the barn who was an experienced horseman. Her mother bred horses and she grew up around them all her life. We began riding together everyday. She didn't compete anymore and just did trail rides, hacking, and basic training on a solid halflinger/gypsy vanner cross. We started out just doing long hack walks on a long rein. I didn't want him to feel any pressure. No demands and no reasons to brace or object. Just relax and go with it and we would just chat as we rode. Her pony was such a great support friend for North. We started hacking in new areas, and when he got nervous, the pony somehow reassured him that all was okay.

Eventually we started trotting on a long rein. Always in big open spaces. We did this for weeks until I felt him start to come around and trust me again. We hauled the horses to go on trail rides, and to different places to ride and more and more North became this easy going relaxed guy. It used to be that whenever I hauled him somewhere new, I'd have to walk him around for 15 minutes and then lunge him for another 10-15 minutes before he was calm enough for me to get in the saddle. Now? I can unload, tack up and get on, no problem. 

Over this time, my friend and I both noticed not only his temperament changing, but his body changing. He used to ALWAYS look bigger on his right side than the left side. I would change directions and it was like seeing and riding a different horse. Now he looks and feels so much more even through his body. And with these changes, he filled out like a beast! Lol. I had to get a new saddle of course.

It's been approximately 6 months since that clinician made the observation about his legs. My farrier measured them and he was indeed right. I can't remember how much the difference was, but no one had ever noticed. In that 6 months I have a new horse. We are partners through and through. We only spend about 2 days a week actually schooling dressage or in the arena. The other 2-3 days are spent hacking, trail rides, or doing ground pole work. He hasn't gone lame since then either. Who da thunk it??

To add a bit on myself. I ran into a trainer back in 2019 at a clinic I was attending. At the time, she was managing and training young horses for one of the largest Danish WB breeding barns in the US. I didn't dare ask her if she was interested in working with this old lady and her quirky OTTB. Lol. But as luck would have it, she ended up teaching a clinic at the old barn I used to board at. I signed up and we clicked instantly. She was exactly what I needed. I could talk through my lessons with her. Tell her what I was feeling in the saddle. She could read North and tell when something was bothering him or he was just being a brat. I started lessoning with her after that. She feeds my analyst brain and tries to help me understand things more. She sends me videos and articles that help explain things we worked on in our lessons. She has ZERO ego and I love her for it. 

So for now, I would consider us to be Training/First Level dressage. I'm not sure if I'll ever seriously compete outside of schooling shows. The whole thing gives me anxiety and turns my brain to mush and I can't remember my **** test to save my life! lol. But I still thoroughly love dressage and the goal is to eventually get us to Third Level. No timeline whatsoever. I am truly enjoying this new partnership with my horse and just hoping to continue it. I hope everyone has been well and everyone's ponies are happy and healthy. If you made it this far through the read, you are a champ! Lol.

Below is a little video I made from last weekend of some fun with ground poles. I'm still a ****e rider, but hey, I started dressage at 39, I have 4 kids (including twins) and I work a desk job. I'm doing my best! 







I swear I love this kid so much and can't believe how nice he is becoming and how lucky I've been with the support I've found. 💙


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## ARJ

Sound like and awesome horse I’m currently riding a OTTB he’s a bit older 8yo, i hope your journey goes well. OMG WHAT THE HELL! I never knew ground work paid off THAT much, like going into a frame his first ride! What a show off must be very supple 
keep up the outstading work,
have a nice night!


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## Tihannah

ARJ said:


> Sound like and awesome horse I’m currently riding a OTTB he’s a bit older 8yo, i hope your journey goes well. OMG WHAT THE HELL! I never knew ground work paid off THAT much, like going into a frame his first ride! What a show off must be very supple
> keep up the outstading work,
> have a nice night!


Haha, no, definitely not the first ride, but we've definitely just started working on connection more. Groundwork definitely helps, but we also do really long warm ups to help with relaxation. We walk at least 20 minutes on a long rein before we start any trot work.


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## Tihannah

Double post.


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## ARJ

I’m glad everythings working out, maybe give free lunging a shot and see if he can jump, that would be cool ive tried that on my instructors OTTB


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## Tihannah

ARJ said:


> I’m glad everythings working out, maybe give free lunging a shot and see if he can jump, that would be cool ive tried that on my instructors OTTB


Lol, he's not a jumper. I've had him 3 years now. He has no talent for it. Just like me. ;-)


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## Danneq

What a handsome lad. I'm glad you got his lameness issue sorted out! Have fun with him.


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## egrogan

So glad to see you posting again! And loved all the updates. He’s such a fabulous horse and so glad you’re having fun with him


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## gottatrot

It's great to hear you are turning into a real team and that you've been able to sort out your horse's mysterious lameness issues. You two are looking great!


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## ARJ

Tihannah said:


> Lol, he's not a jumper. I've had him 3 years now. He has no talent for it. Just like me. ;-)


hahahaha that makes sense im a jumper so you know LOL


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## carshon

So glad to see you back on the forum!


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## jaydee

Its so good to see your progress - and so much progress!

After everything you went through, its great that North is proving to be the horse you wanted.

Hope we'll see more of you.


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## MajorSealstheDeal

I really enjoyed this update, I enjoyed your posts about North and the horse you had prior to him. Thank you for sharing your journey


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## knightrider

Oh! Oh! Oh! I've missed you so much and thought about you so much. I felt so sad when you dropped off the forum because I always clicked right away on your journal when I saw a new post. I have long wondered how you were doing. That's such a great update. I wish you would continue your journal. It's great to hear from you.


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## Tihannah

knightrider said:


> Oh! Oh! Oh! I've missed you so much and thought about you so much. I felt so sad when you dropped off the forum because I always clicked right away on your journal when I saw a new post. I have long wondered how you were doing. That's such a great update. I wish you would continue your journal. It's great to hear from you.


Awww, thanks! I'm glad someone enjoyed our crazy journey! lol. He's just a really cool, sweet kid and I have thoroughly enjoyed watching him grow and developing him into a solid citizen. <3

I


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## whisperbaby22

Yea, it is good to hear from you. I have heard of this leg thing somewhere before, it jogs my memory of an old book by a farrier that I have somewhere. Could it have been discussed in there, or did I just hear of it happening to some horse in the course of my life? I'm going to have to try and find that book!


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## Tihannah

whisperbaby22 said:


> Yea, it is good to hear from you. I have heard of this leg thing somewhere before, it jogs my memory of an old book by a farrier that I have somewhere. Could it have been discussed in there, or did I just hear of it happening to some horse in the course of my life? I'm going to have to try and find that book!


It was definitely something very interesting when you look at the cause and effect of lameness issues with horses. With North, it felt like we were on this constant merry go round of fixing issues without truly understanding the source. First it would be his hind end - was it the hocks or the stifles? Then it would be his front right hoof (the one he overloaded), but it would rotate between either a sore toe or a sore heel. We began corrective shoeing as soon as he arrived. We x-rayed the hoof to make sure there was nothing internal going on. The imbalance in his body and uneven weight distribution caused neck and poll issues as well. It was exhausting because he was started on routine body work from the time I got him at 3. In fact, the only area that didn't seem to have issues was his back. And that was because I'd had him a custom saddle made not long after I got him. Oh, his lower back, but not the area that a saddle would be the culprit.

I rarely cantered him his first year and a half under saddle. Mostly just walk and trot (lots of walking) and I kept rides 25-30 minutes. I just couldn't understand what was happening. Friends at the barn joked that if North stubbed his toe, it was like he was dying. They'd take their horses out to 3 day events, do conditioning work galloping them in the pastures, jump 3-4 foot fences and my sweet Princess and the Pea could barely canter a lap around the dressage arena. Haha. Some said, "He's spoiled. You've pampered him. You need to MAKE him work."

But that one little observation from the trainer changed everything. My farrier said after North, he ran into another lady that had had the same issue with her horse for years. He was 18yrs old and always had lameness problems. She said she'd never been able to get him to stand square and she was reluctant to let him try it. He applied the wedges on the opposite front and hind feet like he did North. The horse stood square and he said she started crying. If we hadn't discovered it with North, I have no doubt he would not have made it to see 18. The imbalance and all the issues it caused were just wearing him down.

Today he is the coolest kid and just a real pleasure to own and ride. Not only has his body settled, but his mind too. 

Below are a few pics from our adventures. Trail riding with friends, an older pic riding bareback before he became a tank (I've gotten quite good at that, by the way ), when we did a little fun mock schooling show at our barn, and then just some arena fun.


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## Tihannah

Happy New Year!!

I took North to a schooling show at the beginning of December. We did First Level tests 1 & 2. The first test was a disaster. In November, it got down in the 30s a few days and North grew a thick winter coat. By the time December hit, temps were back up in the mid 70s and even 80s a couple days. Our show day was pushing 80 degrees and after our warm up, North decided he'd had enough. When we left the warm up arena and he realized we were going into yet ANOTHER arena, he started having a tantrum. Nope, nope, nope, NOT gonna do it! It took everything I had to get him through the first test, and he threw every tactic in the book at me. Although it was a crappy score, the judge commended me for getting him through it.  Second test wasn't great either, but we managed to pull off a 64.14% and second place. I had to REALLY talk him through it - like literally! Mumbling through closed teeth at what a good boy he was and he could do it, and sneaking scratches behind the withers through the whole test. Lol. I clipped him as soon as we got home! Over the years, I've learned he really responds to verbal praise and truly wants to please and be a good boy. At the same time, he can be very much a brat when he doesn't want to do something. I rode with a clinician once who said, "Wow, he is quite full of himself!" Lol. It's very true.

Anyhow, we ended the year on a very positive note. Our focus has mostly been building his strength and balance and my sweet boy shows improvement everyday. I, myself, will never be a great rider, but I can't help my love for dressage and riding and learning and just seek to continuously improve. As long as he will tolerate me, I'm happy. This was our last ride of 2021 and I'm looking forward to what we can accomplish in 2022. I hope everyone had a safe and happy new year and that 2022 is a better year for all of us.


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## whisperbaby22

Well doesn't he look terrific! I have not forgotten about the book, it is not here at the house and I rarely go up to where I think I have it. When I do go, I'll look.


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## Tihannah

Whew... life has been crazy! I really thought long and hard if I wanted to share this, but you know what?? F.I. Lol. I'm quite proud of my Puff & Stuff, though training has been on the back burner since January. February 1st I got a call from my property manager saying the owner wanted to move back into our lease home. My youngest, twins, have one year of high school left and he drops this on me in the middle of an absolutely terrifying housing market for both leasing and buying. We had till the end of May. They would at least let the kids finish out the school year. North was at the height of our training together, but this news sent me into such high levels of stress and anxiety, that I couldn't muster the energy to ride. We had been taking weekly lessons and both of us were improving so much! My SO and I are not from the area and have no family here, so our plan was to let the kids finish out school and then decide where we wanted to settle down and buy a home. Rentals in our school district were few and far between, and those available were smaller than our current lease for considerably more money. So we were basically forced to buy a home. Under a serious time crunch, with our amazing realtor, we were able to buy a home for $22k under asking... in THIS crazy market!! But it's because my guy is incredibly handy and we saw the potential in a home that I guess others just didn't see. We closed on March 30th and then spent the next 3 weeks working feverishly to get the home the way we wanted it. We moved in at the end of April. With May came an early summer and temperatures and humidity to snatch your soul. I've lived in this area for 18 years now and it's easily one of the hottest summers we've seen. So because of this, we've had minimal riding time.

So anyways, that is why this video is kind of old. It's basically where we left off. North is 7 now, fat and happy and holy cow did he fill out even more the past couple months! He's around 16.3 and a tank! But our relationship has never been better. 

So to reiterate what I shared earlier... the beginning is where we were when we discovered his imbalance issue. I was apprehensive about sharing because it is ugly... I mean REALLY ugly. But this was the clinic where the change began. To give a little context, our only focus for the 3 days of the clinic was to try and get him to go straight. Meaning not crooked in his body and stepping the right hind under himself. You can't really tell in the video, but I swear it took every thing I had to keep him trotting. We were trying to use a counter bend to bring the right hind under him and he fought every step of the way. I felt extremely depressed and defeated after this clinic. I got yelled at A LOT for my inability to stay out of his face. He didn't say it, but I could feel how disappointed the trainer was that we had gotten to this point. He hadn't come in almost 2 years because of covid. North was still a baby then. But he was the one that noticed North's right leg being longer than the left. And he was the one that drilled into me "FORGET WHAT HIS HEAD AND NECK ARE DOING!! Focus on what his hind end is doing!!"

And that was the beginning... That was when I started over. I messed up so bad and overlooked the issue for so long, that I had to regain North's trust. Lots of long rein hacks at the walk. Long reins at the trot. Working on my seat and position. I took him on trail rides with friends, which was a different kind of challenge. Slowly he started to trust me again and I could pick up the reins more. And then I could have contact. And the re-balancing of his shoes and lots of body work. I worked on building the strength in his right hind by posting on the wrong diagonal when we were going right to allow him to bring the hind end through more. The trainer told me, "His left hind is doing all the work and his right hind is out having margaritas with the girls! So what's happening is that his left hind is getting tired from carrying all the weight and then he throws a tantrum."

I really spent a lot of time just "listening" to my horse and coming to understand him. We have had days when he would just spook at everything! Spook at nothing! I would be so nervous and tense riding him and feel like I had to keep a firm hold cause at any minute he was going to jump sideways. Once I improved my seat, it no longer made me nervous. But once I started REALLY paying attention, I learned that 95% of the time, he wasn't spooking because something startled him. He was spooking because something was bothering him! l realized that North is not the kind of horse that would ever buck or rear out of pain or discomfort. He spooks out of pain or discomfort. And it can be the smallest thing. A couple months ago I purchased a new gel halfpad. He was tense and spooking at everything. I got off, switched it out and put his old halfpad back on. He was totally relaxed, not a care in the world anymore. It's taken a long time, but I've finally figured him out. His nickname at the barn is Princess because everything has to be JUST right or he will give you hell. lol. I know him like the back of my hand now and he knows me. I can catch his spooks before he even does it. I just tell him, "Aaah! Quit being silly." and we'll continue. But I know.. if he's being looky, if he's being jumpy, something is bothering him. 100%.

Anyways, so here it is. This is how ugly it got (prepare to cringe) and this is where we left off. I'm proud that we got through this. I'm just hoping we can make it through this brutal summer and get back in the swing of things. I also hope everyone has been doing well and having good rides! Hopefully some of you live where the summer isn't so grueling! I barely have time to check the facespace anymore, so I have no clue what everyone has been up to on here. My days start at 6am, headed to the barn by 630a to feed and ride if possible, then back home by 11am to work from home till about 8pm. Shower and bed and do it all over again. It's an exciting life, I know.


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## whisperbaby22

I can't find the book, I know I had it, and it describes what you have. Anyway, it is good to hear from you.


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## jaydee

Always good to hear about your progress with North.


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