# AQHA Western Bits for a horse who hates curbs?



## HorseMom1025 (Jul 17, 2012)

Ok, I've been reading a lot about bits, but cannot seem to find what I'm looking for. I'm hoping some experienced AQHA show riders can help.

Our mare (age 8) HATES curb bits with a fiery passion. She will throw he head and be a complete PITA on a curb. We've tried just about every type out there from solid to jointed. If it hthat port of any size, she hates it. She is fine in a jointed or dog bone style bit. 

I may be reading the rules wrong, but in Western Classes are curb bits required for horses over a certain age? My daughter (who is the rider) is 10 and in the Novice Youth division. Kitten tries to be soft in the mouth, but she's still learning.

What bits would you recommend that are legal to show in?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spurstop (Mar 22, 2012)

The rule changed this year, and in novice classes, the rider can use a snaffle.

However, I would recommend getting your mare more broke in the curb because if your daughter points out, she'll have to be in one.

AQHA: Home for the rulebook. It's all available online.


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## HorseMom1025 (Jul 17, 2012)

I have the AQHA rule book ap...I just wasn't sure even after reading the rules.

I don't know if we'll ever manage to get Acey in a curb. She REALLY hates them. She's usually really easy to bridle (opens her mouth and reaches for the bit) but if she even sees a curb, she clenches her teeth and can be very stubborn about taking it. Kitten rides English as her primary discipline, then enjoys play days and trail.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

If she is fine with no port try a Billy Allen bit. That's what I show my mare in.


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## GottaRide (Dec 10, 2007)

I really like this bit, as do my horses: FES Bit Western Swivel 7 1/2" Loose Flat Cheek in Mullen/Low Port at Schneider Saddlery

However, a bit like this is also legal to show in if your horse likes the broken mouthpiece:
7" Engraved Aluminum Shank Snaffle Bit - Toilet Seats - Bath - Home


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## HorseMom1025 (Jul 17, 2012)

I really like that 2nd bit! So curb doesn't mean it has to have a port? I have a bit with similar shanks (pretty and engraved), but it has a port and Acey was a brat in it.
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## spurstop (Mar 22, 2012)

If your daughter is recently stepping up to AQHA shows, I would suggest finding a trainer.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

OP - Curb is any bit with shanks, technically. Doesn't have to have a port.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I haven't shown AQHA in years but I do show my mare in other assocations in this bit.

Smith Brothers Western Horse Tack


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## HorseMom1025 (Jul 17, 2012)

Thanks SorrelHorse. I wasn't sure because the rules always show a bit with a port. 

SpurStop, Kitten has a trainer... I'm just the type who likes to get 2nd, 3rd, and sometimes 4th opinions. No matter how experienced someone is (our trainer's daughter has won state and national shows), they cannot know everything. Plus, all her WP horses show in a ported curb bit (thus, that's what she recommends)...that's why I was hoping to find other AQHA show people to give me other ideas. 


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

"State and national shows" is an odd thing to say for AQHA. The trainer is a world champion? A congress champion?


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Does Acey neck-rein well? What sort of action on the bit produces a head-tossing reaction? Is Acey being ridden on a loose rein 99% of the time and working off seat and leg only, or is she being ridden with a lot of direction from the rein?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HorseMom1025 (Jul 17, 2012)

Kitten still rides a little tight (her foundation is English). Her coach is working with her on it. Any bit action causes her to toss her head. She rides in a snaffle with cheek bars in English and does really well. For barrels/play days we have what's called the "Million Dollar Bit". Acey LOVES that bit.

So I've been trying out different bits to see what works.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HorseMom1025 (Jul 17, 2012)

Sorry, still learning AQHA terminology...we've only done 3 AQHA local shows ourselves. . I just know her daughter finished out her horse and won titles at a huge shows. (I think they also show APHA)? They sold that horse for close to $20k...after buying him for $5k as a 3 year old.
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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

I'm sorry, but 20k isn't the price you'd expect to see on a horse with "titles" from "huge shows." I am sure it was just a nice horse. That's a pretty average price. 

It is important to have the terminology and your facts correct.


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## HorseMom1025 (Jul 17, 2012)

The point of this thread was not to discuss what I know of AQHA show levels. I've admitted that we are new to the horse world and showing. I'm not really sure why you felt the need to take this discussion completely off track... Does it make you feel superior? Our trainer is a great trainer for the level my daughter plans to show at. Our trainer's daughter and the other kids on her show team have done very well.. I've seen their awards, I've watched these kids clean up at every show we've been to and seen the evidence of other successes. My daughter has no aspirations for high level shows. Our goal is to have fun and do the best we can on our little mare. I would like to find a legal bit that allows us to do this and keeps our horse happy. Other posters have been very helpful and I thank them for their recommendations.

I am asking a question of knowledgable show people about options for bits...not looking for a critique of my knowledge and facts about AQHA show levels.
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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Curb bits are fundamentally supposed to be used on finished horses; so the rein should be looped loose and the horse ridden off of seat and leg aids (and neck reining) - not much bit action at all. Perhaps taking a step back and getting the basics down before switching to a curb might be an idea. Many horses will get upset if ridden like they`re in a snaffle - and for good reason; the curb bit is a leverage bit that uses the jaw as a fulcrum point. I know many (many) riders and trainers `jig`the bit in the horse`s mouth to get them to drop their nose and listen, but really that`s not what the bit is there to do. 
I definitely suggest looking at the riding style and get the horse and rider trained properly on how to use a curb bit before expecting the horse to pack it around quietly.


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

HorseMom1025 said:


> The point of this thread was not to discuss what I know of AQHA show levels. I've admitted that we are new to the horse world and showing. I'm not really sure why you felt the need to take this discussion completely off track... Does it make you feel superior? Our trainer is a great trainer for the level my daughter plans to show at. Our trainer's daughter and the other kids on her show team have done very well.. I've seen their awards, I've watched these kids clean up at every show we've been to and seen the evidence of other successes. My daughter has no aspirations for high level shows. Our goal is to have fun and do the best we can on our little mare. I would like to find a legal bit that allows us to do this and keeps our horse happy. Other posters have been very helpful and I thank them for their recommendations.
> 
> I am asking a question of knowledgable show people about options for bits...not looking for a critique of my knowledge and facts about AQHA show levels.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Superior? Not at all. But if you are going to pull out credentials, best to get it right or it really does the opposite of what you'd like.

Fun is always a good goal. I am sure your daughter will enjoy it.


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## spurstop (Mar 22, 2012)

I spend the first part of every ride two handed on my horse -- pulling on the bit, pushing her body around, breaking her up and getting her loose. All in a curb bit.

A broke horse will know what you are wanting and will give to it. 

The problem with the OP's horse is that it's not broke.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I have a mare that I'm currently training to a curb bit. She's always been ridden in a Myler Comfort Snaffle and now she's old enough to go curb. I have her in this bit:

Robart

And she's taking very well to it. She has always been very sensitive to the bit, I have to be VERY light handed even in a snaffle. She does not fight this bit the way she has fought other training bits I tried. 

*Robart Pinchless Bit System *

This Pinchless Junior Western Pleasure bit designed for a more finished western Pleasure horse. Excellent bit to help our horse transition to a "Finished Look". The spring loaded shanks (patent pending) allows individual shoulder control, unlike stiffer bits. Encourages your horse to relax. 

A revolutionary idea and bit design to implement it. Instead of training and working a horse on the basis of creating pain and the anticipation of pain. The patented David Robart bit corrects by pressure and eliminating the pain. 5" mouth. 


They also make this bit:

Robart Pinchless Short Shank Training Bit - Western Bits

Which might be an even better transition bit for her.


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## Rachel1786 (Nov 14, 2010)

HorseMom1025 said:


> Kitten still rides a little tight (her foundation is English). Her coach is working with her on it. Any bit action causes her to toss her head. She rides in a snaffle with cheek bars in English and does really well. For barrels/play days we have what's called the "Million Dollar Bit". Acey LOVES that bit.
> 
> So I've been trying out different bits to see what works.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is this the million dollar bit?


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

I use a Robarts reiner, every horse seems to work well in these.
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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I can't imagine anyone referring to any other bit as the "Million dollar bit" without referring to that one, by Martha Josey.

Decent for the strongest of barrel horses with those who know how to use it...A lot of bit for a young girl though.


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## Rachel1786 (Nov 14, 2010)

SorrelHorse said:


> I can't imagine anyone referring to any other bit as the "Million dollar bit" without referring to that one, by Martha Josey.
> 
> Decent for the strongest of barrel horses with those who know how to use it...A lot of bit for a young girl though.


I don't know much about western bits so I googled the bit and wanted to see if that was the bit she was talking about, looks pretty harsh to me, I can't imagine a horse "liking" it so I thought maybe I was looking at the wrong bit.


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## HorseMom1025 (Jul 17, 2012)

Yes, that's the one she came with when we bought her. The original owner gave it to us with the horse. She has always moved very well in it, she doesn't throw her head and is quite responsive. She was used mostly for barrels at play days by the gentleman's daughter. When his daughter lost interest, we leased her for 9 months before deciding to purchase her. 

My daughter only really uses that bit when we do fun play days at the stable (barrels, poles, etc.). They actually do very well in these events.  Otherwise, she mostly rides English in a snaffle bit (smooth bit, copper, single joint with rings and short bars on the ring). Right now, she is focused on flat work (W/T/C) and equitation.

Since many shows seems to want to see a horse that can "do it all" we want to work on Kitten's western riding. Thus why we've started doing one western class per show. Usually a rail class with Walk and Jog...although I think next year we will have to move up to the Walk / Jog / Lope classes since my daughter will turn 10.

I'm guessing it's the ports on the curb bits that are probably causing our mare stress. (I thought port and curb we're the same...but I'm learning that they are not!). Every bit recommended by our trainer had a port...but that's just not working for our horse and rider. I need to find a legal curb bit without a port that works. I've looked at what the Barn Owner (not our trainer) uses on the school horses and she seems to prefer the Tom Thumb...but reading this forum and other I'm not sure I want to go that route either.

Our trainer is constantly working on their legs (riding without stirrups, trotting through poles with no reins (legs only), learning to post without stirrups, etc. She works on getting them to loosen up their hands and work with their seat, legs and words as their primary communication devices. All this is wonderful, but it does not alleviate the need for a bit that we can show in during Western classes.

As for whether or not our horse is broke, I would argue that she is quite well broke. While she will never excel at one discipline or be a million dollar show horse, she is willing to try anything my daughter asks of her. She's not spooky, she has done parades, play days, shows, costume contests, trail rides and trail challenges. Heck, she and Kitten have been playing at team sorting occasionally with cows. (Acey LOVES cows!). Our mare has proven that she is a perfect fit for my daughter and they are both exploring and learning together. No, Acey isn't perfect and she has her bad days...I think that's part of working with a living creature that has feelings too.
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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

HorseMom1025 said:


> I'm guessing it's the ports on the curb bits that are probably causing our mare stress. (I thought port and curb we're the same...but I'm learning that they are not!).
> 
> As for whether or not our horse is broke, _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't know what the other person meant when she said your horse was not broke, but what the fighting the bit with a port means to me is: She is NOT BROKE to THAT BIT. She may be "broke to death" over all but she hasn't been trained to use a curb with a port in it. Everytime you change frome 1 bit to another bit, there is an element of training that needs to happen. 

Your mare is broke to a snaffle very well, now the trainer needs to break her to the ported curb bit so that she will also accept the curb. It's not difficult but if the trainer hasn't/isn't doing that and explaining to you that it's a necessary process and what it entails, she's not doing her job. She may be an excellent rider, an excellent RIDING instructor and she may be able to get a trained horse to respond well, but IMO, she's not the trainer for your horse at this stage of the game. 

Breaking the horse to the new bit is a process that just takes what it takes. You're on horse time and she will let you know when she's going to accept that bit. Your trainer should be the only one riding with that bit right now, until the horse accepts it, it's really not a good idea for your child to be riding with the new bit while she's still not broke to it. You child can continue riding with the snaffle but until the horse is more accepting, a small child shouldn't be trying to ride and learn at the same time the horse is. 

All this is IMO of course, and you can do as you please (or don't) with it. :lol:


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## HorseMom1025 (Jul 17, 2012)

So,a curb bit must be ported for shows? Or will one of the other recommended bits work at an AQHA sanctioned show?
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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

No, you are not required to show in a ported bit, just a curb, which means shanks & a curb strap. It's up to individuals if they want to use a port, jointed, whatever mouthpiece. From what I am reading, your horse & your daughter don't know how to use indirect, lateral cues. Stay two handed until they get some help, otherwise things might get worse. Good Luck!


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

HorseMom1025 said:


> So,a curb bit must be ported for shows? Or will one of the other recommended bits work at an AQHA sanctioned show?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, you do not need a port on a shanked bit, but it DOES need to be a shanked bit. I show AQHA, and the key with the ported bits is that the horse is trained to "pack it"...meaning the horse IS broke enough to pick up and bit and hold it in it's mouth, and work off seat and leg with a draped rein. The signal for the horse to make a "correction" only takes the slightest lift of the rider's hand, and the bit starts to rotate in the mouth....with a finished horse that is ALL it takes for the horse to correct itself. It's hard to do this with a joined mouth shanked bit, but it is certainly ok for you to use one of these while your daughter and her horse are getting "finished" together.


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