# critique possible buy: thoroughbred mare



## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

What has she been doing since she retired? I would assume from her muscles that these pics were taken either at the track or soon after that? 

Looks like a nice horse to me, I have had a bunch of OTTBs so I would recommend a vet check on her, particularly her legs. 

What do you want to do with her?


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## armydogs (Apr 14, 2010)

I am not positive what I would want to do with her yet. I know nothing about dressage or any kind of enlish riding, so I have been researching it. I trail ride mostly. But, I think she has the potential to do much more than that. 

As for when the pictures were taken, I am not sure, I think they were shortly after coming off the track. I will be getting a ppe done, thanks for recommending having her legs checked out.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I love OTTBs, every horse I have owned other than my first has been one. They can make great trail horses, however they can have a lot of problems too. There is a lot of retraining that goes into them and that takes a while. So it completely depends on what she has done since being off the track rather than how she looks, in my mind at least. 

I am a big supporter of TBs, but I think if you are looking for a trail horse and frankly why spend the time retraining TB, so a Quarter Horse might be a better choice. 

Of course, I don't know her personality, my current OTTB would make a great trail horse, as he is so lazy and slow and reacts minutes after something has happened. He is so dumb and slow, did I mention he is so slow? LOL. But he is not quite the norm, TBs have a reputation for being hot and want to go, they are bred for this and so it is natural. The pic I have in my avatar is his dumb rear meeting himself in the mirror, he met his 'friend' for about 20 minutes before he figured it out. 

Based on what you are looking for, I would suggest that it is a nice looking horse, but if you want to just trail, she might not be the best choice for you. If you are looking to event or jump, he looks like a nice horse to me. 

Keep looking, it is easy to fall in love while you are looking, but there are so many horses out there right now.


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## armydogs (Apr 14, 2010)

I want to do more than just trail ride, but I am not sure what I want to do at this point in time. My main thing is I am 6'2" tall, and I like a tall horse. I do not know what she has done since she has been off the track, I have not spoken to the owner yet. I didn't want to interrupt her Thanksgiving to ask her about the horse. I am going to call her tomorrow and see what information I can find out.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Makes perfect sense. I am a jumper, it is what I enjoy doing with horses, but I bought a young unknown horse off the track and I am suffering through dressage, as I know he needs to learn this. But gawd, does it bore me to death.

I seriously hope that he can manage to jump half decently, when I really make him try next year, as he is only 5. But if not, I will suffer through dressage as much as it pains me. 

Of course, as I have the same opinion as you, I agree. I think it is great to do whatever a horse can do well and just go with that! 

For what it is worth, if I were looking to buy, this horse looks like a nice horse and I would be interested in it.


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## Clementine (Sep 24, 2009)

What a cute mare! She's got some nice horses back in her bloodlines...Northern Dancer, Secretariat, Mr. Prospector, and Bold Ruler...anyone would recognize those names! (Okay, well, most horse people _should_.) 

Anyway, conformation critique. Here goes.

Pros:
*Her legs are long and elegant looking, but still very sturdy. She has nice big knees, short cannon bones, and apparently flat, clean tendons. 
*The length and angle of her pasterns is very nice, and ideal for long-term soundness. 
*Her shoulder also has a good angle to it, which should, in theory, make for a long, smoother stride.
*Her overall balance appears to be flat or slightly uphill. Which is beginning to be a rare thing in OTTBs.
*She has a gorgeous chiseled face and bright, kind eyes. 

Cons:
*Her back, though of an average length, appears unusually swayed for a 6 year old mare. (Has she been used for breeding at any point?) However, this could be an illusion due to the height of her withers. 
*She is post legged (very straight through her hocks)
*Appears cow hocked, though that could be her posture and/or simply signify a need for corrective shoeing. 

Overall though, I think she's a very nicely built horse! If you're looking for a fun sport, I bet she'd make a nice jumper.


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## armydogs (Apr 14, 2010)

Clementine, thank you for breaking that down for me. I love her bloodlines. I recognize all the big names, and some of the small ones as well. I really need to learn how to critique a horse. I am looking at what you wrote, and am slowly seeing what you say. Thanks again.


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## SaratogaTB (Jun 14, 2010)

Her grandfather is Storm Cat, which is very impressive, and wasn't mentioned above. He was the #1 sire for many years.

She is one year younger than my OTTB. in 7 months, my guy has gone from racing to winning first place in a hunter show. OTTBs are versitile sport horses and can do most anything. I also happen to have a slow guy, but slow is relative...for the hunter ring, its working out just fine. He did get caught in traffic in the last show and decided to race his way out of it. Terrifying moment!:wink:

I love her looks, and if you are set to explore english riding she looks perfect. I wouldnt say that to a less experienced rider, however. OTTBs do require someone with experience. In terms of the "sway back" comment....once she begins working her top line will develop. She looks a tiny bit underweight which will go away with time and different muscles will develop, especially in the neck and hindquarters.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Good for you for taking in an OTTB!* I have a Storm Cat daughter too!*

What I can see is she has something funny going on with her back legs, not sure what there. Maybe a tad post-legged.

However, she has good shoulder and pastern angles which will contribute to her being a smooth ride with nice extented gaits. I love her head, it's very refined.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

I agree with what Clementine posted as confo analysis; but would like to add a few points. 

Her neck ties in very high on her shoulder, which gives her good depth of chest, but can also produce high head carriage and an inverted way of going. Her neck is also short compared to her overall body length. 

Prominent wither with a signifigant dip behind the wither; better topline muscle would help but won't change it entirely. 

What would worry me most about her as a pleasure/sport horse prospect is that she is going to be extremely difficult to fit for a saddle with that pronounced wither. 

She is also going to be a difficult reclaim if you want a horse with a relaxed top line or a round way of going.


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## TheLastUnicorn (Jun 11, 2010)

Body Length = 12.4cm
Shoulder Slope = 48.43 Degrees
Shoulder Angle = 89.2 degrees
Scapula Length = 4.21 = 33% of Body Length
Humorous Length = 3.28 = 78% if Scapula Length
Forearm Length = 2.88 = 88% of the Humorous length
Cannon Length = 2.2 = 76% of Forearm Length
Pastern Length = 1.06 = 48% if Cannon length
Back Length = 5.27 = 43% of Body length
Ribcage Length = 5 = 95% of Back Length
Hip Length = 4.39 = 35% of body length
Femur Length = 3.73 is smaller than hip length
Pelvic Length = 3.7 is smaller than hip length
Hip Angle = 55.07 degrees
Femur Angle = 71.6 degrees
Pelvic Angle = 54.31 degrees
Neck Length = 6.03 = 49% of Body Length

Overall, this mare fit’s the image of a racehorse - which is what she is. That on it’s own is actually somewhat of a hindrance to her as a sport horse though. A racehorse is built to do one thing, and do it well, that’s go fast. 

She is square built, and that’s a good thing for. She is uphill - another good thing for her. 

Her shoulder slope is 48. 43 degrees, which is actually not bad, it’s almost steep, but not too badly. She has a shoulder angle which is 89.2degrees - which, unfortunately is a rather closed angle. Paired with her steep slope, she’s not going to be the most comfortable ride. Her scapula length is actually bare minimum at 33% of her body length (any shorter and her stride length will be shortened dramatically, especially with the shoulder angles). The Humorous length is countering that a little though with it’s nice 78% of her scapula length. 

Her forearm length is great though - and that will help the shoulder issue as well. Her cannon is over 75% of her forearm length… too long for my liking. Her pastern length is closing in on that 50% of the cannon too… paired with her shoulder, and cannon length, I’m not over joyous about it, it’s coming closer to being a serious weakness. She doesn’t have bad bone, or foot size. 
Her back length is ok, but her ribcage length is showing that she does have a bit of excess length through her loin - so we’re continuing to add to her “weaknesses”. To go along with that slightly too long loin she is also lacking loin girth… this will weaken the loin in general. When we look at her back the most noticeable thing is that her wither is high, and extends back quite a ways into her back - this will reduce her ability round her back, it will make saddle fit hard too. Being that she also has a weaker loin, I’m going to go out on a limb and say her back conformation is looking more like it gets added to the “weaknesses” list…. The clincher to me, is how far back her LS placement is, not promising when added to the rest of the back. 

Her hip is over 1/3 of her body length, which is good, but, her femur and pelvic lengths both drop off. We can see here that she has a pelvic angle which is “thrown off” by this lack of equality to her hindquarter… I mentioned in another thread that this type of conformation is pretty typical of horses bred to do one speed and do it “well”, but it’s a hindrance for horses which will be expected to change gaits smoothly, stop well, collect, or turn sharply because it limit’s the horse’s ability to bring the hindquarter down and “sit”. Furthermore, adding to the "negatives" of her hindquarter is she's post legged... almost extremely so if this photo is even remotely accurate. If you were to picture her hind cannons verticle to the ground her hind limb would lose almost all it's angulation - and she'd ride like a jackhammer. 

Her neck is over 1/3 of her body length, so I wouldn’t say it’s too short at all… but it ties in high to her chest (which means she has good chest depth) which wouldn’t be so bad, if she had a better shape to her neck in general… she has a rather straight neck, with little in the way of a natural arch. This may make it tougher for her to be able to relax her topline and come “round”. 

Overall… She has some strengths, but, If I were buying, for a sport prospect, I’d pass on this mare. Her weaknesses are too close to potential soundness problems and uphill training battles. As a trail horse, she’d probably do fine, or if you just wanted to lightly dabble in other stuff - but it would greatly depend on what they’re asking for her if I’d “bother” for that purpose either. 
I hope this helps you decide J


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## armydogs (Apr 14, 2010)

Unicorn, thank you so much for really breaking her down for me. I appreciate it. If I get her I know I will mostly trail ride, and maybe do some playday stuff. I want to learn all I can on english riding, so I can try things out with her, and decide if I really like it or not. I am about to call her owner and see what I can find out about her.


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