# Sitting Trot Help



## mswp27 (Nov 6, 2009)

mswp27 said:


> I am currently riding dressage and just started working on my working trot about a month ago.


Oops, sorry! I meant sitting trot, not working trot It makes more sense now haha.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Wow, if your lower back is hurting much, please take it easy. I overdid something, including riding , recently and hurt my lower back and now it won't seem to go back to normal.

Perhaps you are either rolling your pelvis too far forward, or not enough. You need some bend in the lower spine (lumbar) to absorb the motion, but too much will hurt you. NO bend in the spine is also bad because the spine's only way to absorb motion is through that bend increasing and decreasing. If you try to stack the back totally vertical and stiffly hold it there, the motion cannot be absorbed, only a small amount via the disks between each vertabrae and this is not good for the back over long periods of time. We NEED that spring action ofthe curved back.

Also, having strong core muscles is essential to being able to sit the trot. I don't have them and I dont' stit the trot very well, at least not for long periods of time.

When you have the chance, post a video.


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## mswp27 (Nov 6, 2009)

Ok, thank you. I will be going out to the barn a lot this week and will try to get some one to take a video


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## raywonk (Jan 9, 2011)

I tell my girls to prettend like you are posting with your tummy. Then as your mucsels develope try to refine it so you do not look like you are moveing. I also tell them to see the bounce going out thier heels and tummy.


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## rottenweiler (Apr 16, 2009)

I have trouble doing 'everything' together properly at the sitting trot. i can sit a trot pretty well without stirrups but when i have my feet IN the stirrups I have trouble keeping my heel down. when I put my heel down, my body gets stiff and I bounce more. When I bounce my hands bounce too! That makes sense about the abdominal muscles because when I DO sit a trot, I get stomach cramps. Jeez, if you ever think you are in good shape...just take an english riding lesson! Half the time I am PANTING, trying to catch my breath to have a conversation with my instructor about what I'm doing! I asked my friend if that was normal or was there something wrong with me and she said that english riding is a very good cardio workout. At least I am getting better in that respect and don't get winded too quickly now


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## mswp27 (Nov 6, 2009)

Haha thanks for the tips. I'll try to post a video a.s.a.p. My trainer told me I could use her school horse whenever I want so that I can practice the sitting trot without stirrups (she advises me not to while riding my horse haha), but I rarely have time to ride both my horse and the school horse. Of course, I am going to ride my horse first.


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## rosie1 (Feb 28, 2011)

I used to have a lot of back pain too due to hollowing out my back, make sure you wear appropriately fitting clothing so that your instructor can see exactly how you're using yourself. It can be hard to tell whats going on without eyes on the ground sometimes, especially when it comes to your position, I had no idea I was riding around with my right hand several inches higher than my left until someone pointed it out to me lol! Once you work out your back problems sitting the trot will become easier, having sore muscles from working out is one thing but if you're putting yourself in pain due to the position of your spine its going to be pretty difficult to keep yourself relaxed and supple enough to absorb the motion of your horse.


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

sounds like a lot of good advice in here already.

i just wanted to add that core muscles will support your lower back so make sure that they are strong and engaged. lower back should stay soft and relaxed, and ankles stay soft and relaxed to act as your shock absorbers (not your back!).

one friend once compared sitting trot to a hobby of hers - belly dancing - where your abs hold you together, your midsection moves, and your lower body stays steady and it really makes a lot of sense to me. think of staying soft and relaxed and moving with the horse's motion - not against it. that should help and good luck!


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## mswp27 (Nov 6, 2009)

Thanks guys! All this advice really helps a lot. I tend to stiffen up in the saddle and brace against my stirrups, especially because my horse has a habit of running off with me, not that I don't trust my horse. I think relaxing and using my heels as shock absorbers will really help. I will most likely be going out of town this week, but I'll try to get a video next week. Again, thanks so much!


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet, is how your horse travels. If he is going with a stiff or hollowed back, it is much harder to sit on him as he is not carrying you. 
A horse that is working over the back and is swinging, will be much easier to sit on. 

You can also slow the trot, when I am struggling to sit a big moving horse, I will ask the tempo to slow to the point that I am able to sit the trot easily and absorb the movement through my pelvis. Once I feel comfortable at that tempo, I'll ask the trot to come a little bigger and so on, until I'm at the trot tempo that I want. 
I find that once you lose your rhythm there is little point trying to continue, as you'll bounce further out of the saddle! So put in a quick rise and then go back to sitting and start again. 

Sitting trot out of walk is also much easier, than trying to get the trot going and then sit it. 

But as others have said, your core strength is the most important part of being able to sit trot, along with the ability to 'work' your pelvis. Some people (like myself!!) are not so loose and open in the pelvis, and as a result have to work very hard to develop the looseness necessary to sit a big trot. Some though, just naturally have an open hip and pelvis and seem to be able to sit any horse. The length of your leg does play a part in this, my legs are very short (bit sad I think I'm the shortest dressage rider in my state ) and I struggle to open my hip and pelvis, as do a lot of my 'vertically challenged' friends compared to my longer legged friends who all seem to have a naturally loose pelvis!


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## Valentina (Jul 27, 2009)

So several things help a person to sit the trot.

1.) Horse need to have a "raised" back. That means horse is using it's hind legs (hence while your need to be back a bit) and stepping underneath itself in such a way as it seems like they're lifting their shoulders. In reality shouders are not coming up but hocks (rear legs) are bending and horse is starting to sit.
2.) Rider needs to have a long RELAXED leg, knees point down (NOT ahead). If rider is "tight" in back, legs, ... this will cause them to bounce harder and further out of the saddle. 
3.) Just like when you post and your elbows open as you post up and close as you sit, your elbows need to open and close at the sitting trot as needed (otherwise you "hit" the horses mouth making them tense and you bounce more). This is called an independent seat, meaning that your upper body can be doing one thing while your lower body is doing something else. 

Sgtart learning sitting trot by getting a nice big relaxed and swinging (horses tail should be swinging) rising trot. Once you have that sit until you feel you're bouncing. Once you start to bounce "too much" go back to rising trot. Keep this up and if you relax (low air out of lungs) you'll be capable of sitting for longer and longer periods of time. 

Try that to start then post a video.


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## cloud9 (Mar 1, 2011)

There is a brilliant book that goes into the rider's position and the aids in great detail. " Dressage Formula" by Erik Herbermann .... it's brilliant.


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## mswp27 (Nov 6, 2009)

Thanks so much guys! I applied this advice to my ride today and felt that my riding was much more lose and relaxed and my horse also seemed more relaxed and happy I'll post a video a.s.a.p.


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## rottenweiler (Apr 16, 2009)

Oh good! I was going to make another suggestion as I had a riding lesson today as well. My instructor had me go to a sitting trot and then had me try to do leg yields, I haven't done that before. I found that when I first started doing the sitting trot I was having my usual problems of bouncing but then I was working on the leg yields (which I apparently suck at) and realized...'HEY, I'm sitting right down in the saddle and not bouncing!' I find that with most things the more I think about it and focus on trying to do it, the worse I am at it. Since I was not focused on sitting the trot, rather focused on trying to do the leg yields, it seemed like it came pretty naturally to me. So maybe you can try that. Do the sitting trot but work on something like getting your horse round, bending etc...


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## mswp27 (Nov 6, 2009)

Thanks for the tip I usually end up doing something other than just sitting the trot in my rides because my horse gets bored quite easily and in lessons, im ALWAYS multi-tasking haha. I will definitely be finding more cirlces and things to do while im sitting the trot because I, too, found that is much easier to sit the trot in a leg yield.


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## alexiskimd (Mar 7, 2011)

I find that doing yoga or stretches in general helps to loosen you up, and strenghten as well. You will be able to sit deeper into the saddle.


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

Your body is learning new skills. Maybe your muscles need development especially around the inner core. Go look for a pilates instructor and tell him or more likely her, what you are aiming to do and attend classes at least once a week.

When sitting to the trot your body has to absorb in the toes, ankles, calves, knees and hips the upward thrust of the horse's movement. You also have to maintain an upright posture for which you'll need stomach muscles. 

It is no easy ride, this game of horse riding.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

When my daughter-in-law started learning to ride last month, I told her one of the keys to learning riding as an adult was to calculate the cube root of four-digit numbers while riding. She looked at me like I was nuts, so I explained that adults try to learn to ride with our conscious minds, which is impossible. The less we 'think', the faster we learn.

As it turns out, she is enjoying her western lessons so much that she is smiling the whole time, so I think she'll learn fast.

I'll add that for me, riding western, the key to learning to sit the trot is LONG stirrups, and putting my foot in the stirrup up to the heel. Then I don't worry about losing the stirrup, and the horse has to move my entire body weight up, not just my body weight from the hips up. Also, coming down, very long legs gives me more contact along the thigh, and more shock absorption from my thighs moving out, as well as less distance to come down since I didn't bounce as high to begin with. It also keeps my leg loose, and my big problem for the last 2 years has been tensing my legs. Pine boards don't flex...


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

BSMS says:

_"adults try to learn to ride with our conscious minds, which is impossible. The less we 'think', the faster we learn"_

Why didn't I think of that? It is true isn't it!

Barry G


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

This is obviously western and not dressage, but notice how straight his leg is (although forward), how straight his back is and his depth in the saddle. I'm sure spending 12+ hours a day in the saddle helps too, but his position cutting cattle in 1907 has elements common to dressage.










"_Charles Myers cutting animals out from the herd. LS Ranch, Texas_, 1907"

Erwin E. Smith Collection Guide | Collection Guide

Great collection of online photos, BTW. But move his heels back and lower his hands, and give him a top hat (oops, new rules, a helmet), and it might look more familiar.


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

Bsms

I think you might find some similar photos in modern rural Spain where they ride Doma Vaquera style. Straight legged, upright posture but on a traditional hand made saddle and riding an Andalucian horse.

Barry


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

HSA Marketing sells photo copies of horse books written around the beginning of the twentieth century which includes one written by a Major Dwyer. In Dwyer's book on page 71 he describes the advantages of the straight leg including better control of the horse's hind legs.

I get the impression that the bent leg came into fashion as more and more leisure riders wanted to jump their horses - which of course the old cowboys did not need to do. In the US the plains are open whereas in Europe the grassy plains have been divided into fields separated by hedges - which are obstacles to be jumped especially by the hunting field. 

Nowadays of course young ladies are passionate about jumping artificial fences made out of painted wood. Hence shortened stirrups and jumping saddles cut with wide skirts and fitted with deep knee rolls.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Barry, I think you are right. The modern seat for jumping is great for jumping, but only if you first develop a good, independent seat. For that, a long leg helps a lot.

I've been trying to teach myself to ride from reading, and most of the books were written by dressage riders. I'd try to move my hip bone here, put my leg there, curl my lip in a snarl like this, and...it was like the scene in "The Paleface" (Amazon.com: The Paleface: Bob Hope, Jane Russell, Robert Armstrong, Iris Adrian, Bobby Watson, Jackie Searl, Joseph Vitale, Charles Trowbridge, Clem Bevans, Jeff York, Stanley Andrews, Wade Crosby, Norman Z. McLeod, Robert L. Welch, Barney Dean, Edmu) where Bob Hope tries to follow all the advice of gunfighters and gets everything screwed up.

In December, I gave up. I ordered an Australian style saddle and decided I was going to just have fun. And if Mia wasn't thrilled, she could suck it up because I was feeding her and she didn't have to be happy all the time. And to heck with all the dressagy advice, and lengthen my stirrups and try to have fun.

And an odd thing happened. When I stopped trying to put my leg somewhere, and couldn't prop it up on a short stirrup (no, I can't blame that on dressage), gravity pulled it underneath me. And if your leg is under you, your back has to straighten because it feels weird otherwise. And since I wasn't worrying about my horse's reaction, I stopped looking at her head - so my head came up and my arms came back, and...

...and I started looking more...more dressagy? Mind you, any beginner dressage rider could still find lots to critique, but one passing by would no longer slam on the brakes, jump out of the car, and shout, "Who is that deformed man, and why is he clinging to his horse's neck?" When I gave up, I started to succeed. And when I stopped worrying about Mia, Mia started to relax as well. Her tension - some of it - was MY tension, reflected.

That was when I realized why young kids learn to ride better than adults do. They have fun. And while they have fun, their bodies adjust. That doesn't mean we can't have instruction, but we can't solve 12 things at once.

I like the instruction my daughter-in-law is getting. About twice an hour, the instructor says "Toes up", or "look ahead", and that's it. The rest of the time she is being taught the cues for stopping a horse, or slowing the trot, or navigating obstacles or cones or whatever...and after 4 lessons, she sat the trot almost the entire hour. No one told her it was hard. She was focused on something else, and lesson 5 was done almost entirely at the trot, and sitting, and she was smiling and having fun.

I can look and see she is leaning back a little, and her feet are a bit forward, but I spent TWO YEARS working to get where she is at on lesson 5. And she didn't work! I've spent so much time making riding hard, when it was supposed to be fun. To sit the trot, accept the horse's movement rather than fight it. Enjoy your horse. Work on something together. If you bounce a bit, so what? It won't last forever. Your body will figure it out. Your mind cannot.


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

*BSMS* Dr Alexander says that to do something a new and different way , we first have to unlearn the way we have always done it. That means you have to do it the new way 300 times, before the brain learns that that's the way we ought to do it, because we've been told to do it the new way, because the new way is better and anyway it is correct and the proper way because that's the way it should be done and any way it is the book that says that etc etc etc etc.

The our sub-conscious brain says 'No' - our old way is best because that's the way our muscles want to do it now.

I learned that when I started to fall off because I went on hollday and watched a Spaniard riding like Clint Eastwood and I wanted to ride like he did. Trouble was I had a cob called Joe and he wasn't an Andalucian and he didn't speak Spanish.

If the horse could answer, he'd tell us that he could cope whatever way we rode.

Barry


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

I think what others said about hollowing your back might be creating the pain and difficulty. I recently started doing pilates again. At the start of every session, when I'm on my back, my lower back doesn't come remotely in contact with the mat. It's only after working my core for a good 15 minutes or so that it starts to release and touch the mat. I agree with others that a lot of this will be solved by a stronger core. Stronger core seems to equal a more supple back.


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## Cheyennes mom (Aug 6, 2010)

remember to put your heels down. I have trouble with sitting trot too cuz my horse's trot is so big and bouncy. I just shove my heels down and sit deep.


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