# How to beat fancier horses...?



## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Get a solid flying change down pat. That will really come into play against the big boys - you will get docked badly with a simple change or staying on the wrong lead. I will watch the video when I have better reception and try to help. I would strongly suggest you PM Maura if she doesn't visit this thread - she has fantastic advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mackieb (Aug 16, 2010)

kk, thanks JustDressageIt! The only issue is convincing my trainer to let me school pi on flying changes while hacking, then taking private lessons to work on courses with flying changes. I'm not sure why she won't let me work with him or work on him herself, she said he would be going to all the rated shows if he had a flying change! I'll find some way to convince her, though


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Better training will beat out age and breed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

The video is a tad hard to critique with the angles and wobble, but I'll try. Coming into the third fence, he looks like he's about to add a stride (almost a pat-down, but I don't think it was) but then jumps a tinch long instead - you land on the other side a bit unbalanced, look down, and take a stride and a half to get reorganized. Always look up and where you want to go. The next line (going away from the camera) the striding is a bit (just a tinch) off again, which makes him dive just the slightest bit. Getting him to listen to your striding will help, or if you have a bad approach to the first fence, you know you have to either push forward or hold back a bit to get proper striding to the second. Get him to engage through the hindquarters more as well - he looks to be quite heavy on the forehand on the landing side; that will improve his quality of step as well. 
The lead changes will be the killer, though, if that's your weak spot. Really try to get those solid.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

DancingArabian said:


> Better training will beat out age and breed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, and a big no... The OP's horse doesn't move like a hunter, he moves like a stock horse. That can work against her in the show ring - a horse that's bred to have the big step and stride will find getting to the fences easier and have a smoother trip than someone with a shorter-strided horse that has to be pushed forward to get the correct striding. A hunter is supposed to look like a push-button horse requiring little to no direction from the rider. Horses bred to have the step will find that job much easier - getting the striding right will affect how the jump is; a horse that makes it to the base of the fence correctly is going to have a much easier time making the jump look perfect.
Training absolutely does come into play - unfortunately a big part of that will be the changes; the judge wants to see a correct lead right off, or a snappy auto change, which comes from correct training.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

I didn't watch the video, but just wanted to comment:

Why do you need to beat 'fancy' horses? Does a ribbon REALLY matter that much? 
I compete for my own self satisfaction, if my horse behaves, stays on my aids and does a good job, then I am happy - whether I came first or last 

You're only 13, you have years to go. Right now, you should be mucking around, hooning around on your horse having a great time and not worrying about ribbons and beating other horses. We don't ride for ribbons, we ride for the enjoyment we get from being with our horses, and the satisfaction of their progress due to our training. 
Eventually you will be up there with those 'big fancy horses'. But don't stress yourself out of it, you have PLENTY of time! At 13, I was still bashing around on a fat little welshie that bucked me off on a regular basis, always came last, and heaven forbid I enter an ODE on her - every single jump she would clear, then bolt and stop dead. I'd go flying over her head and eat dirt, get eliminated, get back on, jump, fall off, get back on, jump, fall off.... and you know what? I'd finish at the end, with a huge grin on my face, covered in mud and bruises, wanting to go back and do it again!!!! Yep, the older girls had their beautiful, sleek, well trained thoroughbreds and parents who bought them everything, but they would get off at the end of the competition, a scowl on their face, tie their puffing horse to the float, and go off to talk to their friends. 

And now? Most of those girls have given up riding, and the ones who are still in it, I have beaten by a significant margin at nearly every competition we have attended. I saved my pennies, bought myself my own 'big, flashy horse' and have put in the hard yards to get there. 

So smile, have fun with your horse, and enjoy being a kid!


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## Mckellar (Apr 18, 2012)

Best answer: practice practice practice!!! Judges can tell who rides all the time and who doesn't. I don't know what afancy horse in your area looks like but ours are the big 16+ warm bloods in pelams that look spotless and the riders are amazing. Remember the horse is half of it ( maybe none if your in eq.) it's your job to make your horse look good, and that's the name of the game. There will always be amazing riders and horses and there will be the not so flashy ones. Give it time, practice your butt off and tell your coach to work on the leads or do it yourself. Most horses in hunters have auto changes, it's expected in my area even from the lowest cross rail classes.


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## Mackieb (Aug 16, 2010)

Ok, thanks everyone for your advice and critique! I am gonna see if I can hack pi today, and see if I can atleast get him to swap his front feet for me  my trainer said to do a change on him, to sit up and go really straight, and even then, it might not work  ill see if I can surprise her with popping a change, or atleast swapping the front feet at the next show, which is july 29th. Ill try and have a friend tape me if we make any progress during our possible hack, though 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Swapping the front legs only is worse than not changing at all!
You do NOT want to encourage the horse to change and canter disunited. Bad bad bad! 

Just sitting up tall and straight will not teach a green horse changes. It will probably just confuse him and he'll stop because your body is no longer following the canter's motion.


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## Mackieb (Aug 16, 2010)

Also, to clear up some confusion, Pi isn't my horse. He is owned by my coach, but I show and lease him. He has a lead change and learned one when he was being trained, but he is a lesson horse in his lower teens and is more often ridden by younger kids who haven't learned flying changes, so he has pretty much forgotten how to do a change and stay balanced in the process. My plan is: when I hack him, I will just re-work him through flying changes so he is more comfortable with them, practice them until he is balanced and steady through them, then try and apply them in courses. I was also talking to one of my friends who rides, and she said once, in a lesson, she got pi to do a flying change during a course, and to do it, she sat up, looked ahead, and pulled on the outside rein until he did it. As in pulling her outside elbow back to her thigh. Pi was too busy with lessons today for me to hack him, and will probably be too busy on thursday, but I am keeping my fingers crossed for friday, since pretty much the only lessons that day are privates for riders that go to the rated shows. And Kayty, i understand your point that swapping only the front feet is bad, but he isn't green and knows how to change, he just needs more balance and regular work on his changes. I won't mind if he isn't balanced or confident enough to do the full change on his first day trying, but like whenever you learn or re-learn something, his balance will improve with practice, and i will expect a full change by the end of our second or third hack, it depends. If he is still having issues after that, I will set up a pole on the diagonal, I have seen videos of horses schooling lead changes over poles.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Green or not - I always demand a clean change. Sometimes you'll get a horse change a little late behind, thats ok if they swap leads and find balance - but you keep riding and asking for the hind legs to change, not just settle for the front legs, which will throw the horse wildly out of balance and end up making him nervous to change at all. 

I'd say the person that got him to change, swapped her weight and shifted her legs to ask for the change. Sitting up and pulling on one rein isn't going to do it unless you want a terribly unbalanced change.


Please, get lessons on how to ride changes before you start trying to unbalance the horse enough to fall into a change. That is how you un-do a horse's training.


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## enh817 (Jun 1, 2012)

If you can't get the changes down solid by the show, then I would suggest working on getting him to land on the correct lead. It's pretty simple really. Just ask for a bend, in the direction you're wanting to go, over the jump. The same way you'd ask him to pick up the canter from a slower gate. You don't want/need to make any huge movements. As long as he's not sticky with either lead, subtle cues should have him landing on the correct lead. Then you won't even have to worry about the lead changes


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## Mckellar (Apr 18, 2012)

Awww no pull the rein to get it and no front change only. That worse, ugly and basically wrong!!! Put down poles to get it, do simple changes down the diagonal with 6 trot strides the. 5,4,3,2,1 that's how many people teach it. Or set a pole across the diagonal and ask it there. You should care that the horse is balanced and you do not want to get a horse to start cross cantering. If you where on my horse and you started to do that I would pull you off of him as fast as I could ( I have a horse on a lease). And if I saw someone yanking the face to get the lead I would have made them get off right there. She was probably using her leg but how you described the reins ... Yah ... No. You won't do well in a hunter class by doing that and you will do WORSE by cross cantering. Didn't you want to do better against the other horses? 

There are right ways and wrong ways and honestly if it's a lesson horse and no one else will keep up the work you may have a hard time keeping the horse doing the changes. Another poster said get it over the jump, try that.


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## equestrianbratt (Jul 10, 2012)

he is actually pretty cute


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## Mackieb (Aug 16, 2010)

Ok, thanks everyone for your advice on lead changes! My new plan is: try and work on balanced FULL changes without yanking on pi's face, and use poles to help. If it turns out that he can't get a balanced change without the help of my trainer, I will just work on getting him to land his leads  Now, to get the thread back on topic... any more advice and critique on how to "overcome our underdog status"? Thanks!


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Who cares if you win or not???!!! Seriously, it does not matter in the least. 
If you don't have changes, you can't expect to go out and beat horses that have them - fancy and expensive or not, the horse that has the best training and the most tactful rider is going to place over one who does not. Just go out, do your best, and that gives you a benchmark to improve on for next time.

If you go out with the mindset that you're the underdog and its all so unfair that the others have got big, fancy horses, then I assure you that you won't enjoy yourself.


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## Corazon Lock (Dec 26, 2011)

You know what? I'm in the same position. My Quarter Horse-that-looks-like-a-Thoroughbred has only had one year solid jumping experience. He doesn't do flying leads yet. He hasn't ever been to a jumping show, and he as sure as heck isn't a fancy horse.

My plan? Just do the best we can! Rusty has improved so drastically that I will accept him as he is - simple leads and all! A horse show is for you to show off what you've learned and to have fun and meet new people - not to win. Getting ribbons is nice, but the experience and goal-reaching will be more fulfilling in the end. Yeah, there's going to be tons of horses that do auto changes, jump every jump exactly square, riders who could have their eyes shut the entire time...but can most of them honestly say that they're having fun just sitting back not doing anything? Did any of them train their own horse to jump?

There's going to be elegant Thoroughbreds and Warmbloods that will never miss a beat. And then there's going to be me and Rusty, probably doing simple leads and flying over the fences - maybe even the arena fence accidentally! Lol he'll jump just about anything. But we've come so far, my riding and his manners, and that should be enough of an achievement itself.


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## Mckellar (Apr 18, 2012)

Not to get extreamly off topic, but to the last post... Riders who have horses do auto changes, get perfect distances , just sit there and do nothing... Ever consider they are just good riders? Yes there are young young kids on amazing point and shoot horses but 99% of the time those winning riders deserve to win because they can ride and make it look effortless ... Just a thought!


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## Prinella (Jul 12, 2011)

You seem to be contradicting yourself slightly. 

You're 13 of course you want ribbons. But you're riding a partial lease horse who's not perfectly suited to your chosen dicipline. Will the flashy 10000 pro trained horse with an equal rider do better? Yes 90% of the time. 

You and Pi have one job. Go out there ride as well as you can that day. And have FUN. 

I'd not be trying the flying change on your own it's quite complicated to get right I'm confused why your trainer won't teach them to you.

Now an anecdote 

I'm not an expert on hunters (not alot of it in aus) but I can relate. I fox hunt on an almost 15h qh mare and when the master found out I was bringing her his only question was 'can it jump?' 

Pfft call her the pocket rocket.

I didn't care she wasn't the 'nicest' horse out there she looked after me and I had fun! I'll be entering the hunter show in August and NOT be placing. But I'll get to go out and compete and without having unrealistic expectations I'll enjoy myself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Corazon Lock (Dec 26, 2011)

Sorry, I do realize that, too. And I highly respect those riders. I guess I just wanted to highlight that there are LOTS of children on point and shoot ponies that really don't have to do much - you know, worry about the horse making it over the jump, lead changes, cutting, etc.  But point taken!


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

what i have learned in life is that you can only control what YOU do, not others. if you try to control other people or worry about what they have that you dont, you will only make yourself happy. you havent walked in their shoes so you really dont know how easy their life is. all you can do is work hard and do your best, and be happy with how you did. 

i hate when people get judged about having a 'fancy' or 'push button' horse. when i started eventing my pony we were winning right away and people used to whisper about how i just sat there and didnt do anything. little did they know, my pony was abused and it took be years to train him. people were very snotty to me when i won or placed, but i didnt let it bother me, i was just proud of me and my pony. 

you will be a lot happier if you stop worrying about other people.


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