# Hes JUST" a Trail Horse



## SwissMiss (Aug 1, 2014)

Love it!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

me too! love this post so much that I think it need publishing, in a big name magazine.

we trail riders need to stop apologizing for being "just" trail riders!!!


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## ChieTheRider (May 3, 2017)

This is so true. Once I literally got lost in the woods so I hopped off (because the trees were too thick and scrubby to ride in) and held onto one rein and just let Tess walk. She got me back to the trail. If a horse can trail, that horse can do anything.


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

ChieTheRider said:


> This is so true. Once I literally got lost in the woods so I hopped off (because the trees were too thick and scrubby to ride in) and held onto one rein and just let Tess walk. She got me back to the trail. If a horse can trail, that horse can do anything.


I can't even count how many times hes found his way back for me. Sometimes I SWEAR we should go one way and hes like "mom no you need to listen to me" and will turn to go the other way (the right way_...yeah 5 minutes later I realize he was right.


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## seabiscuit91 (Mar 30, 2017)

SO true. 
I've had so many times my horses know the way home when I definitely did not!
You also have to put a great deal of trust into them, knowing they're not going to spook at a bird or what have you. You can comfortably walk on a loose rein without fretting, not because it's 'lazy' or because we don't understand 'contact' because we know our horses, have independent seats, and can relax. (okay mini rant, only because recently I seem to have come across a lot of people who only ride in arenas, and are terrified to let the reins go on their horses ... even for a moment)


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

True, a great trail horse is very valuable, esp to those who mainly trail ride. You don't ride the papers, and upper level training on a trail, means nothing, if the horse is an idiot, endangers either you or himself, or both
However, as in all things, there is a middle ground, and trail horses do have an upper limit in value, based on expectations.
I rather like the fact that my show horses also are good trail hroses. For instance, my gelding Einstein was a great trail horse, that I trusted completely. He also, though, could do every other stride lead change, could nail a tight trail pattern, could win at western pl, HUS, western riding, trail, and could also, ride any tough trail out there.
The reverse is not true of most trail horses
Thus, I take that post with a grain of sand. My husband only needs a solid trail horse, one that will also pack in camp, or pack out an elk if needed. That is invaluable to my husband, who has no interest in showing
However, I like a horse to also be able to show competitively also, and ahorse that is just trail ridden, sorry, is the same as a horse that is just arena ridden, far as that arena horse riding out well, or that trail horse able to compete successfully, esp when advanced maneuvers are included, moving with true self carriage and collection
I can trail ride my show horses. Can you show your trail horses ?


Charlie the show horseand Charlie the trail horse


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Einstein the show horse, ApHCC supreme member of the breed

Einstein on top of Powderface-long steep climb


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Smilie the show horse,ROM , both open and non pro, western pl, trail, HUS, Halter, Horse improvement classic in halter and performance, and Smilie the 
;real 'trail horse,


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Sure I can show my trail horses. They may not win a ribbon but I'd be able to count on them to go into the arena, do as asked and not act like a fool.

By the way @evilamc, I love that article too.


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

Smilie has a good point. I admire a good all around horse. But the thing is, to match the horse to the needs of the owner. There's no need to disparage a good trail horse. Those are valuable animals to those who need that type of horse. There are a lot of mediocre and bad trail horses out on the trails. 

There are plenty of folks who never train a horse beyond accepting a rider, get up, whoa, and turning with a plow rein. And plenty of folks who never ride beyond that point and are happy with it. Actually, that last bit is rather scary to me. It's been my experience that a large number of recreational riders are not riding at all. They are simply sitting on a horse while it's moving.


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## buggy (Aug 8, 2016)

I want a sound, sane-minded, willing horse that takes things in stride. Everything else can be worked on.

I agree with @JCnGrace, I would expect my horses to go into an arena and not act like fools. I want a horse that gives a solid effort no matter what I ask. I wouldn't expect them to win anything without preparation for such events. As it stands now, they are "just" trail horses, and that is what I need.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

Jax has such soft eyes... I mean, he just looks SO laid back in every picture. He's just precious, evilamc.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

A "trail horse" used to be called a "horse". Maybe in the not-so-distant future, what we call now a "car" will be called a "street car", with "car" referring to those driven competitively on a race track. "What, you only have a car to get from A to B? Do you even compete? You aren't a real driver!" – Yeah right.

Now, let us think about the practical implications of remarks like that. What value does one derive from being acknowledged as a "true equestrian" by the one or other person? How does it change your relationship with your horse? The benefits _you_ derive from _your_ riding? 

I'm certainly among the biggest phonies there are: I race my race horse, but across the field for fun, never competitively. I drive my sports car on a track, but for track driver's ed, never competitively. I ride an adventure motorcycle, but never on long-distance trips. I could get flak from three groups of "true" _whatevers_.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

Cordillera Cowboy said:


> There are plenty of folks who never train a horse beyond accepting a rider, get up, whoa, and turning with a plow rein. And plenty of folks who never ride beyond that point and are happy with it. Actually, that last bit is rather scary to me. It's been my experience that a large number of recreational riders are not riding at all. They are simply sitting on a horse while it's moving.


As someone who's started out like this - but wanted and wants to learn - I can honestly say a lot of people just don't understand the reality of owning a horse, or riding one. Even in this area where horses are so common if you throw a rock you'll hit one, most people just. don't. know. Guys see Hollywood western horses, girls see all these Hallmark Spiritually Wounded Horse Meets Child of Divorce Couple and the Two Bond In the Round Pen While Girl Screams and Cries.

People are far removed from the era when horses and livestock were a practical necessity. We live in an era where animals are pampered and greatly anthropomorphized, and we seriously have people that believe plain milk comes from white cows and chocolate milk comes from brown cows. I guess they think skim milk comes from thin cows? IDK.

Anyway. We're sold the dream, we seek out something that's missing in our lives (and that's another discussion altogether, how urbanized humanity has become and yet we're so desperate for something - animals - to fill a missing place in our lives, perhaps our hearts?) and we buy into the sales pitch that Horses are the Perfect Companion.

All the dreams of liberty you had as a child (because that's what a horse represents, isn't it? An unfailing loyal companion that you can do things with, and the liberty to do them) come to mind immediately when you think of a horse, when you see Wyatt Earp's Revenge Posse in the movie Tombstone, or the horses of The Magnificent Seven? Or the Terrible Descent in the Man from Snowy River? NO ONE sees those people, on those horses and thinks bah... pffft. Whatever... 

No. We see those people doing those things on those horses and we think My God YES! I want to do that! That right there! That should be ME charging off into the sunset, sticking to that horses back like a tick and of one mind together! 

That's why Hollywood puts an actiony 'horse riding' montage in every western, every movie that can feature a horse or doing things on a horse. Because it appeals to a wide variety of people.

And if they have the balls to show the person getting bucked off, smashed or kicked or bit, they always get up, dust it off, and they're fiinnnneee.

And horses SMELL GOOD. (you can't put that in a movie can you?) WHY do they smell sooo good? Is that the ancient predator in humans, recognizing a meal? IDK! But I can stand there and inhale the smell of horse until I go nose deaf and it never gets old.

And they SOUND good. From the cadence of hooves hitting the ground when they run and play, to the loud buck snorts Trigger makes when he's confused and trying to understand what I'm asking of him. I love every sound our horses make (so long as it's not a squeal of pain or alarm).

So we buy into the dream, for a lot of reasons.

Then reality sets in and if you put in even a little bit of time sitting on a horse, you realize very quickly (if you and your horse are lucky) that a horse is not a four wheeler or a UTV. Its not a vehicle you can just plug a key into, turn the ignition over, and it goes where you tell it to without question. It has its own needs, physically and emotionally, even intellectually, and if those needs aren't met by you, you're both screwed.

Reality is: Horses are sweaty, nasty, dirty (not in a bad way but I never leave our horses with clean hands or jeans and don't get me started on the green or grainy slobber they love to smear on me), they shed as much as a dead cat (At least Trigger does, my GOD he sheds constantly yet never seems to run out of hair), they have days when they're grumpy or nervous... even if they're feeling fresh and playful, they can hurt you, they require almost daily interaction, and they do not care if you've had a bad day or you're tired from work. Then, physically, most of us don't have the core strength or the balance to RIDE a horse, especially if we're older. We're overweight, we're out of shape, we're clueless and we're struggling. 

And we think just sitting on one is riding. 

Not how it works, is it? Sitting there is just the first step in a series of a thousands of steps.

I see my friends, who have grown up in a saddle, doing all the things I wish I could, and I am envious. But I can't get there from here - because they have 30+ years of experience on me. So I'm having to start at A, work my way to B... hope I can get to C by late autumn, and ultimately? I have a grandbaby on the way. I hope he or she has the privilege of growing up in a saddle. I'll never have the skill my friends do, neither will my kids, but I hope for the grandbaby, y'know?

I know, I'm so sorry - Brevity is not my strong point. I blame it on being a hobbyist writer, but those are my thoughts for the day, from a person struggling to learn to RIDE, not just sit on an atv with a saddle.


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

AtokaGhosthorse said:


> Jax has such soft eyes... I mean, he just looks SO laid back in every picture. He's just precious, evilamc.


Aw thank you  He has a very sweet personality to match! He can be quite the class clown though sometimes...I always tell people there is never a dull moment when living with him. My poor mare Orianna puts up with soooooo much!!


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

Oh, and... my husband is one of those guys who grew up either on a horse or messing with cattle... I didn't believe him, when we were in HS and we were dating, that he could rope a steer off the back of a horse.

I stood in the back of his dually one afternoon while his friend, the guy that gave us Supes a couple of years ago, rode out, ropes swinging, to round up heifers and steers to take to auction.

I watched that crazy mare he was on run full tilt across the pasture, her head cranked back trying to bite his shin, and him kicking her in the nose, while trying to rope a heifer. Her name was Hellb*&% btw, after the horse on Lonesome Dove.

THAT was riding, not just sitting on a moving horse. LOL


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

AtokaGhosthorse said:


> As someone who's started out like this - but wanted and wants to learn - I can honestly say a lot of people just don't understand the reality of owning a horse, or riding one. Even in this area where horses are so common if you throw a rock you'll hit one, most people just. don't. know. Guys see Hollywood western horses, girls see all these Hallmark Spiritually Wounded Horse Meets Child of Divorce Couple and the Two Bond In the Round Pen While Girl Screams and Cries.
> 
> People are far removed from the era when horses and livestock were a practical necessity. We live in an era where animals are pampered and greatly anthropomorphized, and we seriously have people that believe plain milk comes from white cows and chocolate milk comes from brown cows. I guess they think skim milk comes from thin cows? IDK.
> 
> ...



Maybe because I grew up around horses, I've always viewed them as royal PITA's but still adore them.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

Smilie said:


> Smilie the show horse,ROM , both open and non pro, western pl, trail, HUS, Halter, Horse improvement classic in halter and performance, and Smilie the
> ;real 'trail horse,
> 
> View attachment 926082
> ...


I don't think the post was meant to discount show horses and if they can be show horses and trail horses, that is great. Just like there are trail horses that don't belong in a show ring there are that same many show horses that would be dangerous on the trail.

I think the post was simply saying that trail horses are worthy for what they are and for a trail rider, invaluable.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

evilamc said:


> Aw thank you  He has a very sweet personality to match! He can be quite the class clown though sometimes...I always tell people there is never a dull moment when living with him. My poor mare Orianna puts up with soooooo much!!


The McDonalds picture actually made me laugh out loud, not just an LOL for emphasis... I honestly laughed and had to show the hubs.

He just looks so smug and satisfied with his McDonald's haul.

I've seen that look on the face of only one of our horses, and that was Sarge the day he quite delicately, stealthily, stole my slice of cheddar cheese right out of my fingers while I wasn't paying attention. He didn't even bother to look apologetic.


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

mmshiro said:


> A "trail horse" used to be called a "horse"...


That's pretty much how I view horses. I need them to do what ever I ask of them. Of course, some will be better at one thing than the other. My maternal grandfather, who I never saw have anything to do with livestock, had a horse when my mother and her siblings were young. He rode it "across the mountain" every day to work in the furniture factory. Probably 6 or 8 miles each way. As far as I know, that horse had no other job. And I have no idea how well, or poorly he rode. The horse was transportation, I think during the gas rationing days of WW2. 

As a kid, we used our horses. We just expected them to do what was needed, whether it was go from here to there without any drama, gather stock, or go into the 4-H show arena. Except for the year he spent in a big field eating and growing with a herd of other yearlings, the colt I raised and trained never left our small place except to ride out on the logging roads in the nearby woods. When he was about 3, we were at a small local show with my sisters and their ponies. The girls were doing well. My dad and I decided to go back home and get the colt. We backed the old pickup against a hill, and the colt just walked in. Took him the 15 or so miles down the highway and unloaded him at the show. Loudspeakers, crowds, no problem. We took 4th place in the western pleasure. Point being, we USED our horses. Similar to the point Smilie makes, though I'll never need the degree of finesse that she requires.


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## george the mule (Dec 7, 2014)

And how do you train a great trail horse? Mmmm, you ride him on trails; lotsa trails, with all sorts of _distractions_; you get him home safely, and praise him for being brave.
Just ain't no other way . . .


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

AtokaGhosthorse said:


> People are far removed from the era when horses and livestock were a practical necessity. We live in an era where animals are pampered and greatly anthropomorphized, and we seriously have people that believe plain milk comes from white cows and chocolate milk comes from brown cows. I guess they think skim milk comes from thin cows? IDK.


_Totally cracked me up!! :lol: :rofl: :lol:

_ I am living in a area of cattle, horses and various livestock.
Ranches of beef cattle, dairy cows abound...and horses, lots of horses.:smile:
Yet some younger school kids do think white milk from the white cow, brown milk {chocolate} from the brown cow...they haven't quite figured out what they get from brown & white cows nor where that strawberry flavored stuff comes from, yet.
All they know is...take it out from the refrigerator and pour from a container. :-o

I will *not *say though that any show horse can be a good trail horse...and vice versa.
To be fair...some "show" horses no matter what training done will never be a good trail horse or even a mediocre trail horse...wrong brain in the head. :-x
And some "trail" horses no matter how much training will not cope well with the show ring atmosphere...wrong brain in the head. :-x

Smilie, your horses _*are*_ so well-rounded it is a credit to you and your dedication to a riding partner. 
It_* is*_ your time and training that made them this way...
You, _are_ in the minority of exposing and requiring of your horses all you do...many people do not and that is limiting the horses ability to have more than one career and goal in life. 
Show horse, trail horse or best of both worlds and have one horse who does both and both well!!
I happen to have one that can show and trail too.._not_ because I trained him, but I purchased him from someone who did both and did them well, and my horse benefits from a dual use if I need/want him to. 
_My show ring days though are done!!_ :-x
I do though want/enjoy the horse that has the knowledge to challenge me with ring work along with that trail experience I find relaxing and fun.:smile:
:cowboy:...
_jmo..._


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

I think there is a misunderstanding, even among riders, as to what being a worthy trail horse entails, which is part of what gives rise to this "just a trail horse" idea. Anyone who has ridden out alone on a difficult trail knows the difference between a nondescript ignorant horse who will plod along carrying a rider, behind another horse, and a savvy, sure-footed, soft-gaited, alert, well-trained bona fide trail horse. It can be the difference between a lovely, if adrenaline-producing, ride, and a sore walk home sans horse.

But most people don't ride alone and don't ride those kinds of trails. 

"Just a trail horse" is usually code for too ugly and common to be a show horse, so nobody bothered to train them to do anything besides go forward, turn, and stop.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

Glad you posted this! My Hubby takes lessons at a show barn- mostly AQHA show horses - very high caliber - he just wants to learn to ride better and maybe one day do an open show. At one of his lessons I commented on how we had felt a little snubbed by someone at the barn because we are only "trail riders"! She said better not happen in front of her- her comment was most of these people will never ride their horses for hours at a time or over obstacles or ride out a spook- that riding trail can be as hard or harder than showing . This from a person who willingly admits that she does not enjoy trail riding. 

It was nice to see and hear that she understands and appreciates horses in any discipline.

I love my "trail" horse!


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## SketchyHorse (May 14, 2012)

Avna said:


> "Just a trail horse" is usually code for too ugly and common to be a show horse, so nobody bothered to train them to do anything besides go forward, turn, and stop.


YES! This describes like over half the trail horses in my area. Locally all the trails are either paved, stone, or mowed grass. They're relatively flat & there isn't much exciting to them (ya seen one, you've seen 'em all). Forward, turn, stop. Yep. That's about it. Follow up the other horse's butt - you're golden. 

There's _that_ type of trail riding & there's the type many of you on here do. Which I give ya'll props for - you do not "just trail ride" or have "just a trail horse." You do some tough trails, deal with some difficult questions, and _ride_. Those are the types of trails I'd like to be doing too. Way more interesting than basically riding in an outdoor arena with some trees.


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## KLJcowgirl (Oct 13, 2015)

EXCELLENT!!! 

I haven't read everyone's replies yet but just wanted to add my experience.

As someone who didn't have opportunities to go trail riding until recently, I did think this at one point. I am learning now how hard it really is. I always knew my gelding was a bit clumsy and awkward, but now after taking him out on a few trail rides, I know I certainly can't trust him to keep me safe. I love him dearly, but he just doesn't watch his feet.

The first trail ride I got to take him on was a few years ago with my mother's work. And to keep what could be a very long story sort, he was a mess. He pranced and chomped the entire time. I couldn't stand him still, and he very nearly hurt us both once or twice.

I've gained a whole new respect for trail riding since then. I haven't had an opportunity to take him on another big ride with many people since then, but I have been taking him out on the little trails up above town. He's doing much much better, other than he still won't watch his feet haha. I'm almost positive he'd walk right off the edge of a cliff if I didn't stop him... It's been really good for both of us. He works in the arena much better the more I trail ride him so anyone who fears it's going to "ruin" their horse are just crazy! It's also brought to light some things I need to work on.

Anyways... I could keep rambling... This is an excellent post, thank you!


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

I am always amazed when non-trail horse people come into my barn and have major panic attacks when my horses "skin" past the big tub fans, can calmly turn their big selves completely around in a three foot wide aisle if they need to, and a host of other narrow misses in my small barn that we don't give a second thought to. 

My terse reply is always: They are trail horses, they know how to negotiate around things for crying out loud.

My horses are not exquisitely broke -- that isn't what I am after but they are well broke for the necessities out in the real world.

My horses have all been good thinkers --- all of them ---- different breeds but all of them good thinkers. Some took longer to learn not to panic in certain situations but they got there eventually. They were all traffic broke - all hard core trail horses need to be traffic broke; riding in heavy traffic was a way life where I am originally from.

One of my top trail horses was a ring sour Morab. The people couldn't wait to get rid of her because she became "useless in the ring". The day I bought her, I took her right down to the Shenango Trails, got on her bareback and away we went, on the trail beside the Shenango River. That precious horse thought she had gone to Heaven. She was enthralled with all the sights and sounds; I gave her her head so she could look around and enjoy her new freedom. She was one horse that never looked back at the show ring.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

JCnGrace said:


> Sure I can show my trail horses. They may not win a ribbon but I'd be able to count on them to go into the arena, do as asked and not act like a fool.
> 
> By the way @evilamc, I love that article too.



There is more to it then that, esp when you add the entire show ring exposure. When I mean 'show' I mean show so the horse is competitive, and not just go around that arena without freaking out.
Also, trail hroses come in all kinds of level of \broke', and you can ride a pretty green horse out, in the presence of some well broke seasoned hroses, but try riding some of those hroses out alone, and different story.
Don't get me wrong, I have ridden many many horses out over the years, and can thus appreciate a great trail horse, that goes at the speed you want, on a loose rein`, that can pick his way carefully, down or up a steep slope with a drop off, after all, I have hunted Bighorn sheep with hubby, thus have ridden trails the average recreational rider never ventures on

Not all of our horses were shown, some were just trail ridden. Hubby has zero interest in showing, thus his horse, first picture, can ride around an arena just fine, ride down the trail one handed, pack out an elk, pack in camp, but you sure could not ride him on handed and show him in trail pattern, or go collected along the rail. That is all fine, as he serves his purpose very well, and therein lies his value, BUT I would consider that original post as not truly being accurate
Second picture is also of a horse hubby just trail rode, while I showed that mare some at the all breed level. We are above the treeline, having climbed there, on frozen sh=now packed steep trail for over two hours. The horses are shod with borium smears
Last is a picture of my main trail hrose, Carmen. No, she was never show quality, but is a great trail horse. I admit to not taking my show horses on hunts, where horses must leg picket, as I have other horses for that. A scar on a show horse is avoided, while a small scar on a trail horse is not important. Does not mean I value my straight trail horses less, but since I have enough horses, have the luxury of 'protecting'my show hroses some, but then, I am talking of the type of trail riding that the average trail rider does not do!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Avna said:


> I think there is a misunderstanding, even among riders, as to what being a worthy trail horse entails, which is part of what gives rise to this "just a trail horse" idea. Anyone who has ridden out alone on a difficult trail knows the difference between a nondescript ignorant horse who will plod along carrying a rider, behind another horse, and a savvy, sure-footed, soft-gaited, alert, well-trained bona fide trail horse. It can be the difference between a lovely, if adrenaline-producing, ride, and a sore walk home sans horse.
> 
> But most people don't ride alone and don't ride those kinds of trails.
> 
> "Just a trail horse" is usually code for too ugly and common to be a show horse, so nobody bothered to train them to do anything besides go forward, turn, and stop.



My point exactly. A =horse plodding along, on a well groomed trail, following other horses, is NOT a great trail horse-he is a packer! Even a Dude can ride such a horse, and you find them in those Dude strings. Try riding some of those hroses, that will go anywhere,as long as their nose is practically up the **** of the hrose in front of them, off by themselves, and different story!
For many, trail riding is some sort of organized group ride, usually with the amenities of a staging area, and take some of those same trail horses, where I ride, and you soon separate the hroses that can be trail ridden, from the great trail horses!


Yes, I admit that there are many show horses that are never ridden out, thus disasters to ride out, until they get that experience.
A truly great trail horse is also born, as, while you can ride any horses out, depending on your own skills, some are just more fun to trail ride, being sensible, versus 'space cadets' Now that I am older, I really appreciate the true great trail horse, versus one that has just been ridden out, as the only criteria!


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## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

I'm extremely disappointed in how this thread went so far off what @evilamc was even saying.

Having literally just discussed this on our last trail ride with her (a REAL trail ride for this area, before we get smacked with "well you didn't ride in the mountains, so that wasn't trail riding."; it was in part of the Appalachian mountain range just FYI), I KNOW what she was trying to get across.

So many people post horses as only good for trails. Which yeah, maybe they could become trail horses, or only be ridden on groomed trails. But people are discounting how well behaved and well trained a trail horse NEEDS to be.

I know I'm a bit in the minority that I have a horse I do trail ride with. I wouldn't call her a full blown trail horse as we occasionally have idiot moments. So I know without a single doubt evilamc was NOT trying to discredit those of us who show or those of us who do both, as some here feel has happened.

Looking at all the people I show with, and the other types of shows that are presented here, you couldn't pay me to ride some of them down a groomed "trail" area. Park horses in pads, Arabs that show the stereotypical side of the breed, more Saddlebred show horses than I care to count. I wouldn't trail ride a single one of the ones I see regularly.

And yet, people want to make comments that people who trail ride would need to show to prove their worth? Really? AND be competitive. The majority of the show horses these days will never see a trail. Least not where we show. So why should we expect "just trail horses" to go into a ring to prove their worth? Aren't they already proving their worth by safely bringing home their rider?

This thread was started because it was a cute thing evilamc found on her Facebook. She wanted to share it with like minded people. Not to have people jump her because she supposedly discredits show riders, or those who can do both. I'm just astounded it even went in that direction to begin with.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Another point often overlooked is that excellent trail horses, like excellent show horses, are born, and then made. I have a pretty darn good trail mare I would take anywhere, just turned seven. I'd like to say "I trained her myself", which I did (with a lot of coaching), but the truth is, she was born with sound conformation, good gaits, a steady mind, and a willing heart. She grew up in big steep pastures that taught her how to use herself safely before she ever had to balance a rider down a trail. So I started out with the right material. We've many miles to go before I would call her finished, but she is already an excellent trail horse, mainly because of who she is.

Something else is that in real trail riding, the importance of the trust and connection you and your horse share cannot be overstated. In arena sports, you may not turn in a good performance but you always have the option of quitting and walking out the gate. If you are hours from a trailhead and get in a jam, it is often your relationship with your buddy that will get you out of there intact. There is nothing in arena sports that is like the conversation you continually have with your trail horse about which path is the most negotiable, which way home is, and whether that crackling in the brush is worth getting excited about or not.

Anyone who has come to a huge downed tree in the middle of a narrow cliffside trail will treasure the horse who can step by careful step back up until they can safely turn around. That there is a trail horse.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Love love love this thread!


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## mkmurphy81 (May 8, 2015)

I think the "just" a trail horse comment also applies to "just" a kids' horse. 

My two are "just" kids' horses and would be considered "meh" in a show ring. However, they're worth their weight in gold if you have a kid wanting to learn to ride. I expect them to be more broke than any other horse and to put up with whatever I throw at them. That's their job.

I have ridden each of them out alone to go explore and find trails. I expect them to act dead broke and go where I point them. Again, that's their job.

It's like the old saying, "if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spend its whole life thinking it's stupid." We don't judge a barrel racer on its ability to jump. We don't judge a jumper on its ability to cut cattle. We shouldn't judge a trail horse by its ability to perform in a show ring if that's not its job.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I am the first to give credit to a good trail horse. All I was trying to say, is that the original post was a bit of a hyperbole, when it compared various trail riding attributes to what is required in some specialized disciplines, as being sorta one and the same.
Just a trail horse, unfortunately, lumps all trail horses into the same cataglory , and that is simply not so. I have seen some horses ridden out on trails that I would not enjoy riding, esp now. They jig, they start to get on the muscle, soon as you turn them towards home, they ride out with other horses,but not by themselves. They do not tie solid well, etc ect
So that was my point-some horses that are trail ridden, truly are not what I would consider a good trail horses
I don't think that comment is a put down, but only if you take it to be one
To me, it purely means a horse that has just been recreationally ridden out, versus having been used in any event that requires some specialized training
I do admit, that when someone inquired about one of our well started young horses, and that horse had only been trail ridden, I would say that he was just trail ridden- with no distain or demeaning intention
What is the big concern here-the word, 'just'. ? I guess it can be, depending on how you take that word, but to me, it "just' means the horse has only been trained to trail ride=period.
One then can decide, just like with any horse, what level of trail horse that horse is


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Tazzie said:


> I'm extremely disappointed in how this thread went so far off what @evilamc was even saying.
> 
> Having literally just discussed this on our last trail ride with her (a REAL trail ride for this area, before we get smacked with "well you didn't ride in the mountains, so that wasn't trail riding."; it was in part of the Appalachian mountain range just FYI), I KNOW what she was trying to get across.
> 
> ...


Are you reading the same thread I am? Maybe you could pull some quotes to bolster your argument? Because I can't see anyone who is saying the things you are accusing them of.


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## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

Smilie said:


> I can trail ride my show horses. Can you show your trail horses


Here ya go @*Avna* . Basically trying to shoot @*evilamc* down for writing about "just" trail horses. All of these posts proving a point about show horses crossing over into trail horses is entirely unnecessary on a thread dedicated to a horse that is "just" a trail horse. I could have been that person instead and posted pictures of myself and the numerous championships we've won as well as my mare on the trail, but I didn't. Why? Because this is a thread for TRAIL horses. Not "can your trail horse show in an arena too?" Essentially, those posts entirely tried to rip down the fact that some people only have a desire to ride out on the trails, no matter what those trails could be. Asking if they can be shown was ridiculous and had nothing to do with the purpose of this thread.

So yes, to answer your response to me, I AM reading the same thread that you are.


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

I really wasn't trying to discredit show horses at all. They CAN do a lot of things I can't and when they're versatile enough to be sane trusty trail mounts AND show horses, even better! 

I just thought it was cute what I saw posted on facebook so decided to share it. I usually ride with older ladies who also prefer to trail ride. I've heard MANY times from people my age/younger "Oh you just trail ride?" or "Oh hes just a trail horse?". I get tired of hearing it. Yes I COULD do other things with him, he does great in obstacle courses and he has the speed if I wanted to train him to do western speed type events...Or we could try our hand at gaited dressage...but I'm not interested in doing that. I wasn't bashing anyone else's choice though just saying why bash MINE.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Tazzie said:


> Here ya go @*Avna* . Basically trying to shoot @*evilamc* down for writing about "just" trail horses. All of these posts proving a point about show horses crossing over into trail horses is entirely unnecessary on a thread dedicated to a horse that is "just" a trail horse. I could have been that person instead and posted pictures of myself and the numerous championships we've won as well as my mare on the trail, but I didn't. Why? Because this is a thread for TRAIL horses. Not "can your trail horse show in an arena too?" Essentially, those posts entirely tried to rip down the fact that some people only have a desire to ride out on the trails, no matter what those trails could be. Asking if they can be shown was ridiculous and had nothing to do with the purpose of this thread.
> 
> So yes, to answer your response to me, I AM reading the same thread that you are.


Not that Smilie needs anyone to defend her, but the original post, if taken a bit more seriously than was probably intended, sort of invited that response. Which was, um, one post in what is getting to be a long thread almost entirely about trail horses and how they need to have a lot of skill and talent. 

Of course so do arena horses. A somewhat different skill and talent set. 

I think that arena horses these days are often -- not always -- narrowly trained, with so a limited set of experiences that they cannot cope with what many pleasure riders consider quite ordinary situations. Thus the statement that a well-trained trail horse could do decently at a lower show level, but many winning show horses would lose their marbles simply walking along an easy trail. So one could make the argument that the trail horse is a more well-rounded horse. If you were in an argumentative mood.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

I will speak only for myself, but when I read Smilie's posts that say over and over again that the only "real" trail horses are ones that climb to 9000 ft above the tree line and pack out a herd of elk on their bare backs though 7 feet of snow after polishing off a reining pattern in the show pen (hyperbole mine...but that's sort of the braggy way it comes across) I generally stay out of those threads. It's made such an impression that I no longer call myself a "trail rider" but a "happy hacker" on here so no one will jump on me for not being a back country rider.

First, riding backcountry is literally impossible for a lot of people depending on where they live. Same for riding at extreme elevation or on risky mountain trails. After spending the past two nights sobbing through the ending of the book "Riding the Crest: Not a Walk in the Park" ( https://www.amazon.com/Riding-Crest-Not-Walk-Park/dp/0615424775) I'd submit that extreme back country riding like Smilie described is just that-extreme, and not something most "trail riders" should or could attempt. I think that makes Smilie's accomplishments with her beautiful horses truly unique and admirable. I just can't quite figure out why she puts down so many people with different experience.

I would submit there's a whole lot of territory in between extreme backcountry and a near-dead horse plodding down a groomed straight path. God knows I'm no riding prodigy-far, far from it. But I also really loved the spirit of @evilamc's original post celebrating that a "good," if not "real," trail horse needs to be able to do a lot of things right to have a fun, safe ride. I think that's what the post was supposed to be about.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

Tazzie said:


> Here ya go @Avna. Basically trying to shoot @evilamc down for writing about "just" trail horses.


You have to forgive smilie - she once told me that I'm not really "trail riding", just "riding out", because I'm not overnighting in the Rockies, just bushwhacking in the Berkshire mountains for half a day at a time. So, not only do I not compete, I don't even have a trail horse since she doesn't even do that. Now I don't even know anymore if I got a real horse...


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## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

And the points @egrogan and @mmshiro made are EXACTLY what I was meaning.

I remember countless threads by Smilie CONSTANTLY putting down people if they aren't scaling mountain tops on their trail horses. I've seen the exact threads that have been mentioned by these two. Repeatedly. Comments about trail riding in sliding plates, or perhaps it was something about removing the sliding plates. Or both. My brain is fuzzy and I truly don't care to try and dig them back up.

I see zero reason to continuously put down someone purely because they aren't doing something to the level in which they are doing. This is the EXACT reason the horse community is dying. Making someone no longer want to call what they do trail riding because they aren't doing extreme trails? Really? What kind of person even does that?

As I essentially agreed to in my original post on this thread, MOST show horses these days would never see any kind of trail. Not even groomed ones. I routinely show at primarily Arabian shows where Saddleseat has a huge outing as does what is called Hunter Pleasure now. NONE of those horses would be safe on a trail. I've gone to Saddlebred shows, and you couldn't PAY me to trail ride them.

But as someone who shows ALL YEAR ROUND, I saw the entire point of Alicia's post. As someone who does Dressage and a multitude of other types of classes, I UNDERSTOOD the concepts that were being stated. No one is saying these horses will go rock a Dressage test or win a jumpers round. But they know where their feet are, and they aren't afraid to safely clear an obstacle. There is zero reason for people who are perfectly happy rolling down a trail to jump into an arena just to prove their horse is as safe as they say and carry all of these concepts.

So yes, perhaps I am in an argumentative mood @Avna. But it's also clear I wasn't alone in my feeling of how this thread went so far sideways to not even be talking about how nice that post was for people who enjoy TRAIL riding. And whatever kind of TRAIL that may be!


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

_*Excuse us.....*_

This was a nice thread and will remain that way in nature....

Let us return to a pleasant discussion or have the mod team in attendance do their deeds....

_Now, we *WILL *return to a nice discussion...._

_Continue on please...
:gallop::gallop:
_
_HLG and the mod team._


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## RoanUnderSaddle (Aug 22, 2017)

What is your definition of a true trail horse?


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

egrogan said:


> I will speak only for myself, but when I read Smilie's posts that say over and over again that the only "real" trail horses are ones that climb to 9000 ft above the tree line and pack out a herd of elk on their bare backs though 7 feet of snow after polishing off a reining pattern in the show pen (hyperbole mine...but that's sort of the braggy way it comes across) I generally stay out of those threads. It's made such an impression that I no longer call myself a "trail rider" but a "happy hacker" on here so no one will jump on me for not being a back country rider.
> 
> First, riding backcountry is literally impossible for a lot of people depending on where they live. Same for riding at extreme elevation or on risky mountain trails. After spending the past two nights sobbing through the ending of the book "Riding the Crest: Not a Walk in the Park" ( https://www.amazon.com/Riding-Crest-Not-Walk-Park/dp/0615424775) I'd submit that extreme back country riding like Smilie described is just that-extreme, and not something most "trail riders" should or could attempt. I think that makes Smilie's accomplishments with her beautiful horses truly unique and admirable. I just can't quite figure out why she puts down so many people with different experience.
> 
> I would submit there's a whole lot of territory in between extreme backcountry and a near-dead horse plodding down a groomed straight path. God knows I'm no riding prodigy-far, far from it. But I also really loved the spirit of @evilamc's original post celebrating that a "good," if not "real," trail horse needs to be able to do a lot of things right to have a fun, safe ride. I think that's what the post was supposed to be about.


We don't all live in the Rockies (good thing, because then they would be way too crowded) but most of us who trail ride have to make the effort to get to trails. This is off topic but I know so many people who say they wish they rode trails more, who say they envy me going horse camping, or day riding in different state and county parks within an hour or so of here. But even if they have access to a trailer, they just don't make the time, or solve the challenges of whatever is standing in their way. Many of these same people will admit they are simply afraid to do it. Afraid of trailering, afraid of riding alone, or just afraid of what their horse will do outside an enclosure. Since I don't hang in show circles, I don't hear this personally but apparently there are quite a few people who are also afraid their expensive show horse will get mussed out there. 

All this was totally unknown to me when I was growing up -- people just rode from A to B on whatever horse they had. Everyone expected their horse would do so, as part of being a basic broke horse. As Smilie said, 'just a trail horse' meant a broke horse which had not had other specialized training at that point. I had never heard of a show horse too good to ride out, or of anyone who was afraid of riding outside an arena. These are new developments in my part of the world. 

I am in no way denigrating the hard disciplined skilled work of bringing a horse to a new level in any arena-based sport. I'm just saying that trail riding used to be called "riding". You didn't have to be in the back country to do it. Now, trail riding is something many horses don't even know how to do. Different world.


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

The OP shared a neat thing she found on the internet. Those things are generally rather simplistic. In here, we are able to take things like that, and either dissect them or add flesh to the bones. Evilamc has started, what to me, is a fascinating discussion. And she posted photos of her horse doing things that a great number of horses will not do. 

Several different aspects are coming up in the discussion. A common thing coming up to me is finding what a horse is suited for, and working towards that. The horse lowest on the rung here seems to be the dude string type horse. The barn I rode for just before retiring needed that type of horse. His wasn't a nose to tail type operation, but he needed traffic safe, no spook, no trip, follow the group type horses. When I first started riding for him, a bit over 10 years ago, he told me he had to buy 10 horses in order to find 1 that would work under those conditions. When I left this year, he said that number had gone up to 15 or 20 horses he had to sift through. When he found one, it stayed there. Some would be leased out, or sold. but as the riders progressed, he often bought the horse back. Some few of them had enough sparkle to place in the local fun show, but that was not their value. That value was in being "just" plow rein, dude packing, trail horses.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

I like my horses, they are pretty darn nice rides, And, at the moment, they are trail horses. They ride with other horses and are nice about it. They ride by themselves and are nice about it. They cross bridges without fuss, go through water, jump downed trees. I've never ridden on the side of a cliff as we don't have many of them down here in Florida but they don't freak out over the gators either. Did I mention that they are really fun to ride?

I had Laela in training for showing but didn't get very far as she was pretty badly injured from a pasture accident. She is sound now and I want to keep her that way. I may show my filly but I doubt it because at this time in my life I don't have the patients for a lot of what goes with it. She will be trained like she is though and will be a trail horse because that is what I like to do the best.

I do think that when people say just a trail horse, they mean JUST a trail horse. Nobody ever says "Oh, He is just a dressage horse" or "just a show jumper" or "he's just a barrel horse". I also think that a lot of really good trail horses are capable of doing other things if given the opportunity to do so. Unless they have been so soured in the arena that they don't want to anymore.


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

Another thing this thread is bringing to my mind is the value of trail work to a performance horse. Whether that is hardcore, tough trails, or just "riding out" into the manicured park. I recall Foxhunter telling of taking in burned out race horses. She let them cool off some, then took them foxhunting. That change was often enough to allow the horse a respectable return to the track. 

Similar to Smilies reluctance to take her show horses elk hunting, I was chewed out as a teenage stable hand for using my 4-H show horse for the morning horse gather. The boss, who also sponsored the 4-H club, said it was too dangerous for a good horse. He wanted me to use one of his low dollar hack horses. And we always kept a handful of them penned up just for that purpose. But my horse took to the job with a passion. Without any real training on my part, she knew just what to do and how to go about it. All I had to do was trust her and hang on. I believe it helped both of us. She was one of those horses I mentioned earlier that we simply used for what ever was needed. But we won the regionals, and placed in the top 10 in the state. Keep in mind that in addition to the practical stuff, we spent hours and hours in the arena doing repetitive, boring things.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

Cordillera Cowboy said:


> Another thing this thread is bringing to my mind is the value of trail work to a performance horse. Whether that is hardcore, tough trails, or just "riding out" into the manicured park. I recall Foxhunter telling of taking in burned out race horses. She let them cool off some, then took them foxhunting. That change was often enough to allow the horse a respectable return to the track.
> 
> Similar to Smilies reluctance to take her show horses elk hunting, I was chewed out as a teenage stable hand for using my 4-H show horse for the morning horse gather. The boss, who also sponsored the 4-H club, said it was too dangerous for a good horse. He wanted me to use one of his low dollar hack horses. And we always kept a handful of them penned up just for that purpose. But my horse took to the job with a passion. Without any real training on my part, she knew just what to do and how to go about it. All I had to do was trust her and hang on. I believe it helped both of us. She was one of those horses I mentioned earlier that we simply used for what ever was needed. But we won the regionals, and placed in the top 10 in the state. Keep in mind that in addition to the practical stuff, we spent hours and hours in the arena doing repetitive, boring things.


Ha, that's it! I am now going to call my horses performance horses. They perform beautifully on the trails. Now, they are no longer JUST trail horses. 

Thanks for the idea.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I only trail ride , these days, and only on groomed semi-urban trails. So, I end up explaining that , somewhat apologetically, when people ask me 'what KIND of riding do I do?"

It's understandable that people like me, who only became able to ride at all in middle age, and who cannot even OWN a horse, much less trailer it for camp outs or moutain rides, may feel 'lesser' than those that were born into that lifestyle. 
It might make us a bit quick to feel denigrated by someone who has all that we will never have. But, I think that's oiur own problem. IF we can't stand up and say, "I do the best I can in MY circumstances", and believe it, why should we expect anyone else to believe, and respect, it?


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> I only trail ride, these days, and only on groomed semi-urban trails. So, I end up explaining that, somewhat apologetically, when people ask me 'what KIND of riding do I do?"
> 
> IF we can't stand up and say, "I do the best I can in MY circumstances", and believe it, why should we expect anyone else to believe, and respect, it?


I agree with your last statement wholeheartedly. So I ask: if you believe that too, then why did you use the word "only" in your first statement - not once, but twice? And why are you explaining apologetically?


Whoever it was that said the problem wasn't being a "trail rider" but with being "JUST" a trail rider had it dead on, IMO.

I know as many people who plod around being passengers on their show horses as I do people who plod around outside of an arena being a passenger. Yet, I would never describe any of them as "just a lower level dressage rider" or "just a WP rider" any more than I would call one "just a trail rider."

It's an issue of respect. Why do people have to put someone else down in an attempt to make themselves feel better?


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## gingerscout (Jan 18, 2012)

we don't have hills or such to ride around here.. land is flat as a pancake.. most trails you find are groomed.. and you know what I'm thrilled to be able to do them.. do I consider it trail riding absolutely.. if there is woods and not in an arena.. then it's a trail in my eyes.. some people have an attitude that they are not going to be pleased no matter whats said, and their way is the only way.. then you just smile and nod. I have noticed tons of bashing in the past.. heck I left this forum for quite a while because of it.. can't we all just be nice.. were all here for the common goal.. no 2 riders and horses are the same


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

I guess it must be different where I'm from. You don't see too many fancy show horses around here, but the ones you do see are multi-taskers. Around here we trail ride (and YES, regardless of what anyone else tries to say, we call it trail riding even when we're just crossing open state land that's all grass and gopher holes), then pack up that same horse who went up Granite Mountain yesterday and haul off to a rodeo or a show. Horses advertised as trail horses are snatched up for a premium, while strictly show horses sit for months on end, trying to find a home. At the local show series at my barn, you're more likely to see trail horses in the ring competing in WP than you are to see spit-and-polish show horses. But, maybe that's because with so many working ranches around here, not many people have use for a horse than can only do one thing. 

Say you're a trail rider around here and you get people asking you what trails you like and when the last time you got to go out was. Say you show and you're only met with mild disinterest...unless you can say you trail ride on the weekends or run rodeo. 

One of the best trail horses I've ever ridden was dumber than a box of rocks. But she was fearless, she knew her feet, and she was a point-and-shoot type ride. I can only hope that one day my 17h monster (who is already pretty handy on the trails, despite how green he is) can be half the "just a trail horse" that Paleface was.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

tinyliny said:


> I only trail ride , these days, and only on groomed semi-urban trails. So, I end up explaining that , somewhat apologetically, when people ask me 'what KIND of riding do I do?"
> 
> It's understandable that people like me, who only became able to ride at all in middle age, and who cannot even OWN a horse, much less trailer it for camp outs or moutain rides, may feel 'lesser' than those that were born into that lifestyle.
> It might make us a bit quick to feel denigrated by someone who has all that we will never have. But, I think that's oiur own problem. IF we can't stand up and say, "I do the best I can in MY circumstances", and believe it, why should we expect anyone else to believe, and respect, it?


I agree with you that it is your own problem, and I don't mean that disrespectfully. Maybe you feel that way because there is so much more that you would like to do and don't feel that you have the opportunity yet. 
You can change your mindset though. I would be saying "I trail ride, and OMG it's so much fun!!!" Because it is.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

I sincerely detest anyone using the phrase 'just a trail horse' a good trail horse is a fantastic find, or build...

I also don't much care for the term just a trail rider, if it is used as an excuse why a person shouldn't put a little effort into improving their skills, and that of their horse.

Everyone needs to get out and enjoy riding their horses, and working for a partnership between us and them.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

phantomhorse13 said:


> I agree with your last statement wholeheartedly. So I ask: if you believe that too, then why did you use the word "only" in your first statement - not once, but twice? And why are you explaining apologetically?
> 
> 
> Whoever it was that said the problem wasn't being a "trail rider" but with being "JUST" a trail rider had it dead on, IMO.
> ...



I agree. and, How much do you charge per hour for therapy? I'd probably benefit from it! you'd do me good!

It's true , what I said, but it's so easy to end up feeling 'less than', when you are surrounded by others that do so much.

thanks for the pep talk!


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> How much do you charge per hour for therapy? I'd probably benefit from it! you'd do me good!


Ha! Go ride your horse - they are the best therapists of all!


To relate this back to trail riding, I once had someone who was (gently) taking me to task for riding on Sundays instead of attending church. She wasn't quite sure what to make of me telling her that by trail riding, I _was_ communing with a higher power..


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Why would a trail horse have to prove itself as a show horse? Why would a trail rider even care if their trail horse could show? Why would they care if the top monetary value of a trail horse is less that the top monetary value of a show horse? The types of folks who make comments like that just want to feel special because their horse can do both. Well, that's great. More power to you.

But I honestly don't care if my trail horses have the potential to show or not. Truly......I don't care if my trail horses can show because I have no aspirations to show either. Actually, if they are NOT show quality, so much the better, because I can hopefully get them for a better price and will be perfectly happy with a good trail horse that doesn't show well. 

Now I look for certain skills and a good temperment. I want a horse that rides out both alone and in a group. And I want a horse that is pretty safe and trustworthy. No buck, no spook is a real plus. But other skills I like in a trail horse, such as backing, sidepassing, neck reining, standing for mounting, etc, I can work with and train myself. 

To me, a good trail horse is priceless because what price can you put on your safety and enjoyment out in nature? A horse you really trust and enjoy makes all the difference in the world between having the time of your life and being scared of the next potential disaster. 

If other people don't value them as well because they don't have the skills to do some other discipline, well that doesn't bother me at all. I have absolutely no interest in riding in a show ring. Just sell me that awesome trail horse cheap because he can't perform to your show ring expectations because he's "just a trail horse." :wink:

And really, some people are perfectly happy just enjoying horseback riding out in nature. We don't have to climb the highest mountains or camp out for weeks or ride the roughest trails. We just want to go out for a few hours, enjoy our horses, maybe see a deer or some other wildlife, and that's about it. My big rush might be bugling to an elk and getting an answer. Does that make me less of a trail rider? If a person only has access to tame trails, never leaves them, and only goes out with a group, does that make them less of a trail rider? Maybe that's what makes them happy. This isn't a competition. Horsemanship is a journey and not everyone is on the same paths. Not everyone has the same goals either.

About 20 years ago when I first started out, I had two Arabians that I trail rode. The other boarders had stock horses. They would make comments about "crazy Arabians." It used to bother me because I really loved my horses. Then I had an epiphany. My horses only had to please ME. Not everyone else. As long as they pleased ME, that's all that mattered. They were MY horses, not theirs. (And all those people weren't riding their horses out on trails, nearly everyday, alone, like I was). 

That still holds true. My horses only have to please ME. If someone doesn't like that I'm riding an Arabian, Mustang, grade or gaited horse, that is their problem. If someone thinks less of me and my horse because we "only" trail ride, that is their problem. As long as I am happy with what me and my horses are doing, that's all that matters. Because they are my horses, not theirs. And I really don't care what goes on in the show ring. Nearest I can figure, showing has ruined many a nice breed by breeding only for showing, not for using. I want a using horse. Best horse I ever rode was a BLM Mustang.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Just to give you an idea of what it's like here...

Out of the seven horses for sale on the first page of my local Craigslist farm and garden, the two highest priced ($4000 and $2500) are being sold mainly on their merits as trail horses. The most expensive one is an all-rounder (rodeo, gymkhana, trails, parades, ranch work, queening), however what they focus on most is his suitability as a trail horse.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Why not stay on track, with the original post?
My sole point was, not 'every just a trail horse', fits that description in that original post. Ones that fit that criteria are a sub species onto themselves, under the general heading of trail horse
That is not knocking whatever riding opportunities anyone is able to enjoy with their horse, knocking any horse ridden out,where they live, just that that original post does not truly define many horses trail ridden. 
You can take any good minded horse out for the first time, and ride some easy trails, without that horse needing much of a 'learning curve, to handle that ground
Take one out where he has to walk along a narrow steep trail, and it is a learning curve, until that horse learns not to let one foot or another slip off that trail, making those first few rides on those trails on that green hrose, not very relaxing
However, once a horse does learn, he then matches one of those criteria in the original post_ that of being sure footed.
As I have said before, I value a good trail horse, that they are born, like in any other discipline, and if I had to chose between a highly trained reactive show hrose and a steady trail horse, to ride on a trail, I like anyone else, will pick that proven trail horse
I am not in any way knocking where anyone rides with their horse, as any time on a horse, doing what you love, is what it is all about.
I just think, the original post, does not truly represent a great number of trail horses, often through lack of opportunity .
I;ve also been known to sign a letter to the editor, as 'just a concerned citizen. Am I putting myself down? Never thought of it that way!


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Smilie, I guess I never took the original post as literally as you did. I don't expect my trail horses to be "bold as a Foxhunter," "agile as a Show Jumper," "cope with bursts of speed like a Racehorse," etc. I think those are exaggerations, at least for me. 

But some of the comments made afterwards seemed pretty literal. Such as this quote:

"I can trail ride my show horses. Can you show your trail horses ?"

I guess my answer would be "no." But the point of my post was that showing is not a necessary skill in a trail horse. And actually, I don't think trail riding is a necessary skill for a show horse either. Would trail riding be good for a show horse? I think so. Is arena work good for a trail horse? I'm sure. But can you be successful at one without the other, of course. And if a person only wants to trail ride then who cares if their trail horses can show?

I think all-around horses are great by the way. There's nothing wrong with that. You've invested a great amount of time and training to get show AND trail horses all in the same package. But that's not necessary for a good trail horse.


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

trailhorserider said:


> .....
> 
> About 20 years ago when I first started out, I had two Arabians that I trail rode. The other boarders had stock horses. They would make comments about "crazy Arabians." It used to bother me because I really loved my horses. Then I had an epiphany. My horses only had to please ME. Not everyone else. As long as they pleased ME, that's all that mattered. They were MY horses, not theirs...


This is actually what folks are saying in here. But, we are dissecting it out into the many degrees and categories that a "trail horse" can fall under.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Cordillera Cowboy said:


> This is actually what folks are saying in here. But, we are dissecting it out into the many degrees and categories that a "trail horse" can fall under.


Then I'm preaching to the choir. :mrgreen:


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

tinyliny said:


> I agree. and, How much do you charge per hour for therapy? I'd probably benefit from it! you'd do me good!
> 
> It's true , what I said, but it's so easy to end up feeling 'less than', when you are surrounded by others that do so much.
> 
> thanks for the pep talk!


It's easy to feel 'less than' because it's human nature to worry what the peanut gallery is thinking of us. It's also easy because that is what we've trained our minds to do. 
I've spent the last several years re training my brain to listen to me instead of me listening to my brain. My brain is a tool, it is not who I am. My ego wants to take over continuously. When I realize that my head has been going on and on with endless negative chatter, I'll stand back and look at it and say "Alright, what do you want, what is it that you have to say?" "Go ahead, I'm all ears." When I do that, do you know what happens? It stops!! LOL "Oh crap, She's looking at me" The ego does not like to be looked at. And then I say "That's what I thought, now shut up". Then I make a conscious decision to think about what I want and what I want is to be happy more than anything else. I think about all of the good things in my life already. I also think about things that I don't have like I already have it right now. Even though it is not completely true, it will be eventually.

My life is far from perfect. I have little messes here and there, but you know what? It's ok. It's life, you can't get it wrong. Don't beat yourself up, Just start from where you are. Relax and go with the flow.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

When I was growing up on my OTTBs they had to show English Pleasure (hunt seat), Equitation, Hunter Hack, Gambler's Choice, Jumpers, and be trail horses too. If they couldn't do it all, they were not long in our family. I still believe that way, if they want to stay here they have to be able to be shown at whatever level(s) they're capable of AND they have to have the mind to be a trail horse too. For me, a horse that can't go out on trail, chase a cow, pen a cow, sort a cow and then go for a trail ride and come back the next day to do Ranch Versatility or Western Pleasure or a Trail Course or whatever I want to do with them will soon be finding a new home. It's not a matter of snobbery but the fact that I love to show and be competitive and I love to ride out on trails, whether up in the Catalinas of AZ or just out at a state park here in OK. I use the trails to prove my show horses and shows to prove my trail horses. If the horse doesn't have the mind to be safe out on the trail and doesn't enjoy going out there, then he can go be in a show home where that's all they want him to do. Vice Versa, if a horse only wants to do trail and can't cope with the show ring, I don't want him. Since I breed a large portion of the horses I ride, I breed for those mind traits in addition to all the other things I breed my horses for. 

When we took Ducati to Color Congress as a 2 year old people were stunned at how well he handled it. I wasn't, I expected it. As a 3 y.o. at the World Championships he was in the Ranch Versatility classes competing with horses who were "made" Ranch Versatility horses. I was stunned to find out that only ONE other horse in any of his classes had been ridden outside of the ring. They did all their versatility training in an arena and showed in an arena and that was it. When we told one guy that Duc had been out doctoring and sorting cows, he couldn't believe it. He said his horse would have lost his mind. I sometimes think we don't expect enough of our horses, most of them can do so much more than we ask of them. For some show people to ride your horse out of the arena is just no good because they're 'worth too much'. I say that if I can't ride them out of the arena they aren't 'worth enough'. 

A good, husband/kid safe trail horse is worth his weight in gold. They're very hard to find for a reason.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

Avna said:


> I think there is a misunderstanding, even among riders, as to what being a worthy trail horse entails, which is part of what gives rise to this "just a trail horse" idea. Anyone who has ridden out alone on a difficult trail knows the difference between a nondescript ignorant horse who will plod along carrying a rider, behind another horse, and a savvy, sure-footed, soft-gaited, alert, well-trained bona fide trail horse. It can be the difference between a lovely, if adrenaline-producing, ride, and a sore walk home sans horse.
> 
> But most people don't ride alone and don't ride those kinds of trails.
> 
> "Just a trail horse" is usually code for too ugly and common to be a show horse, so nobody bothered to train them to do anything besides go forward, turn, and stop.


I could be horribly wrong, but I suspect there are also a LOT of ignorant (And I mean that in terms of people who just genuinely don't. know.) horse snobs out there. Their specific event, their way of riding, what they do with their horse is the only way that's good and right and worthy and all others are losers.

Another discussion for another time, I'm sure, but... other than the dog? What other animal can anyone think of that's been bred and diversified as the horse? By that I mean you have your basic breeds, Arabian, QH, TB, Standardbred, Saddlebred, Appaloosa, etc., but then you get into specific bloodlines and you find racers, hunters, jumpers, cutters, 'cow sense'... and depending on what you want out of a papered horse, you buy according to that horse's potential, which is predicted if you will, by his or her bloodlines.

I can think of no other domestic animal we expect so much of, tbh, not even dogs.

Me, I'm in the I Just Want Go, Stop, Left, Right, Back Up, Don't Kill Me, Don't Kill Anyone Else, Don't Break your Leg, or Mine, Or Anyone Elses Out of Ours Camp. For now. 

Again, folks like Smilie, with the lifetime of skill and experience, not just to ride, but to teach and train a horse AND OR other riders, are people I truly envy... That's not an emotion I feel often, and its one I don't like to admit to feeling.


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## Dixiesmom (May 26, 2013)

I almost always ride alone, and no, my horse would need a heck of a lot of work to show, but she's perfect for me and what I want. I can not ride for months and hop on for a safe ride. Basically, I don't care what others think of what I do with my horse - she fits me and my needs (lots of physical issues so we're pokey trail walkers) perfectly and keeps me safe which is priceless. JUST my 2 cents.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

LoriF said:


> It's easy to feel 'less than' because it's human nature to worry what the peanut gallery is thinking of us.





Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> A good, husband/kid safe trail horse is worth his weight in gold. They're very hard to find for a reason.


_I believe these thoughts are some of the most relevant from the 7 pages and 66 posts preceding this one...
_
_*Do your own thing, *do it because it makes you feel good and enjoy that activity you participate in *"just"* because...
Go ride, ride to the best of your ability as that will keep you safest...
*"JUST" RIDE because you love it and being with the horse... *
:cowboy: :cowboy: :cowboy:.....
 
The only person needing to be pleased by their horse is *YOU.*
Not me, not your neighbor, not the show rider across the barn aisle, nor the trail rider at the end of the barn...*"JUST" YOU!!!
*
I look at it this way...
A little diversity, each doing something slightly different, at different levels of difficulty or expertise....we all contribute what we can and that makes the horse-world revolve.

I intensely dislike the show ring but was required to as it showcased sale horses where I worked...:-x {past tense}
Now, I ride for me, no one else and no one to impress...*all me! *:smile:
As little as I choose to do or as much as I can push man and beast together to accomplish *it is only to please me...*and my horse of course. :redface:
That pleasing is what it is all about to me....me, pleasing me {and horse} !_
_I *don't *care what others think...nor what comes from "the mouths".
Let others march and sing to their own tune...loudly if they want.
A horse is no better or worse because of a "label" they wear....
If the horse meets the needs and wants of the rider, doing the work asked quietly, willingly and without issue...then that horse is a perfect animal in their amount of ability, training level and exposure to various venues that the rider needs.
*Now, please go ride and ENJOY THE HORSES!!*
__:runninghorse2:....
jmo..._


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

gingerscout said:


> we don't have hills or such to ride around here.. land is flat as a pancake.. most trails you find are groomed.. and you know what I'm thrilled to be able to do them.. do I consider it trail riding absolutely.. if there is woods and not in an arena.. then it's a trail in my eyes.. some people have an attitude that they are not going to be pleased no matter whats said, and their way is the only way.. then you just smile and nod. I have noticed tons of bashing in the past.. heck I left this forum for quite a while because of it.. can't we all just be nice.. were all here for the common goal.. no 2 riders and horses are the same


Cow and game trails through thick brush over hundreds, if not thousands of acres are considered 'trails' for riding here. I am NOT KNOCKING ANYONE WHEN I SAY THIS: But I kinda chuckled about the tools on a trail ride thread and the people that bring pruners. If we tried that? We'd be pruning all day long. Its more a... whole lot of OH SH*^ and Duck here, get as low as you can in the saddle... and still get your cap, hat, your hoodie hood, or hair wadded up in a bois d'arc tree or your face whapped by a fully pollinating eastern red cedar (Okay, who has the nasacort and ibuprofen in their saddle bag? Has been heard many times.), get dead twigs broken off in your shirt... and down in your bra... spiders on your neck (I've gotten so many bites back there... I get at least two a year), scratches on your face and arms.

It goes against every grain in my body - but there are times we just have to let the horses have their head and let them figure out the best, safest route for everyone. THAT is so hard to do, and requires a trust I do not yet have in any of them them except Gina. She's our mountain goat, go anywhere, with a ride as smooth as glass horse.... she's our trail horse and hog hunting horse and she's fearless, agile, and smart... and just 5.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

_So, after re-reading this thread again.... a lot of reading folks...
I took these & decided to try and see if it feels right...

We should "re-phrase" our thoughts from....
"Just a trail horse"
to
"MY PERFORMANCE HORSE"
or 
"MY HORSE".....

Takes those "labels" that seems to wig many out away....the training and degree of it has now been de-stressed....

Horse is yours and does what you want and need....*PERFECT!!! *:wink:

How does that feel???

Next..

:runninghorse2:.......
_


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

I've been reading through this thread this morning and a thought came to me.

In the past, I competed on motorcycles for several years. There are many forms of competition on motorcycles and someone who "just trail rode" was somehow considered in lower esteem than those that competed in one form or another.

I even felt that way toward the "just trail rode people" myself. Looking back, I do not clearly understand where my mind was. 

So anyhow, this thread to me seems to be in some ways about valuing those that compete above those that don't.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

Cordillera Cowboy said:


> the dude string type horse.


Let me just thank you for causing me to find that song on YouTube! I'd never heard that term before, and a quick Google search led to a lot of chuckles...

If there's anyone else who hadn't had the pleasure:


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

trailhorserider said:


> Smilie, I guess I never took the original post as literally as you did. I don't expect my trail horses to be "bold as a Foxhunter," "agile as a Show Jumper," "cope with bursts of speed like a Racehorse," etc. I think those are exaggerations, at least for me.
> 
> But some of the comments made afterwards seemed pretty literal. Such as this quote:
> 
> ...



I perhaps worded things not quite right, in that original statement, because if you go on, you will see that I certainly give credit to a good trail horse only, and in fact,own some of those myself
I have also often posted, if you are buying a horse, then try him in the intended job. Thus is your interest is trail riding, then try that horse out on an actual trail, both alone and with other horses
Perhaps, the entire misconceptions would never have occurred, had the original post not compared those trail horse skills to different specific show level training. 
In fact, you most likely would not wish to take a trail champion show horse, out on an actual trail, without that horse first being introduced to an actual trail. One judge mentioned being given such a horse, on a visit, and that horse almost walked off a cliff with him, devoid of being able to use his own judgement at times, for input
My husband's trail horse has never seen a show ring, nor has my main trail horse Carmen. I value them, being 'just trail' horses, because they specialize in that job, and are thus my pick, when ever we 'rough it', need to sure as to how the hrose will react, when confronted with game, gun fire, ect

I ride my show horses out, because it is good for their mind, but that does not mean I don't enjoy riding a horse that has specialized in trail riding only, thus has more trail miles, has been tied up over night in a remote camp, has been exposed to game, has been de sensitized to early morning gun fire, as you ride out at the break of dawn, ect
No offense to a horse that is 'just a trail horse', was ever intended by me. Just credit him with his won unique skills, versus trying to make him into a super combo of all show hroses!


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

It's okay that my horses are "just trail horses".....because, I'm just a trail rider.....

I have no plans to ever grace the gates of an arena with my horses....they're much to good to put them through all the stuff.....for what? A ribbon?


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Smilie said:


> ...Perhaps, the entire misconceptions would never have occurred, had the original post not compared those trail horse skills to different specific show level training...


It was a joke. It was meant to be a funny reminder that trail horses are NOT "horses who failed at competition so putzing around on a trail is all that is left to them and their pathetic riders". And yes, I've met people who acted that way.


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

mmshiro said:


> Let me just thank you for causing me to find that song on YouTube! I'd never heard that term before, and a quick Google search led to a lot of chuckles...
> 
> If there's anyone else who hadn't had the pleasure:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zj9pV7jXEzQ


You're welcome! The link won't open for me (probably my 3rd world connection). But, if that's the Dave Stamey tune, it's a sure enough good one. 

And if I had a nickel for every rent-a-horse cowboy who told me he used to ride the rodeo, I could have retired long ago. I did notice that they're usually trying to impress the girl they're with.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

Cordillera Cowboy said:


> And if I had a nickel for every rent-a-horse cowboy who told me he used to ride the rodeo, I could have retired long ago. I did notice that they're usually trying to impress the girl they're with.


ANNNND now we know why Shania Twain's song That Don't Impress Me Much was so wildly popular in the 90s, the LAST time the rodeo trend was hot in the U.S.


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

I was talking to a working cowboy/ranch owner one day about riding. I asked him if he ever did rodeo. He said a few times in his younger years to earn a buck or two when he needed it. He had a couple of really well-bred horses. Asked him if he ever showed or competed any of them. He laughed and said “heellll no.”

He never had a riding lesson in his life and I am sure that if a video was posted of his riding for critique you could find plenty wrong in the way he does it using show standards. 

What really matters is did he get the job done?

Like cowboys themselves the way they ride doesn’t need to be pretty or finessed, probably more than a little rough around the edges but, they get the job done. In that respect, a working cowboy “Finishes in the ribbons” every dang day. A cowboy isn't a fashion model, he doesn't have a fancy pedigree that includes Dukes and Lords, he's a cowboy.

There is a practicality to the way they approach riding and all of life that I find more admirable than all of the bling and blitz found in the show ring. It is a way of living life whose value is sadly, being lost on most people these days. 

A trail horse is "just" a trail horse in the way that a working cowboy is "just" a cowboy. They don’t have to be pretty or papered or perfectly groomed. They don’t have to have a doctoral degree in anything but common sense.

Did the two of you get the job done whatever job that might be? Yep. Well then, that is all that matters.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Reiningcatsanddogs said:


> I was talking to a working cowboy/ranch owner one day about riding. I asked him if he ever did rodeo. He said a few times in his younger years to earn a buck or two when he needed it. He had a couple of really well-bred horses. Asked him if he ever showed or competed any of them. He laughed and said “heellll no.”
> 
> He never had a riding lesson in his life and I am sure that if a video was posted of his riding for critique you could find plenty wrong in the way he does it using show standards.
> 
> ...


Your thoughts on the working cowboy bring up a good point. I think, for centuries, most people rode for necessity and just wanted to get the job done, get from point A to point B, etc. They didn't worry about their form or how they rode, just that they stayed up on the horse and didn't get thrown and had a decent line of communication with them. Sure, there were some riders pursing perfection, but I think they were in the minority. 

Nowadays, if you just want to enjoy nature and enjoy your horse but not necessarily pursue lessons or showing, you feel like you are somehow lesser than those who do. Because you are aware of all the things you do "wrong." You get told about all the things you do "wrong." Before, I don't think a lot of people were aware they were doing things "wrong." They just did whatever worked for them and their horse.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

bsms said:


> It was a joke. It was meant to be a funny reminder that trail horses are NOT "horses who failed at competition so putzing around on a trail is all that is left to them and their pathetic riders". And yes, I've met people who acted that way.


 Guess my Hee Haw, must have been lacking!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

trailhorserider said:


> Your thoughts on the working cowboy bring up a good point. I think, for centuries, most people rode for necessity and just wanted to get the job done, get from point A to point B, etc. They didn't worry about their form or how they rode, just that they stayed up on the horse and didn't get thrown and had a decent line of communication with them. Sure, there were some riders pursing perfection, but I think they were in the minority.
> 
> Nowadays, if you just want to enjoy nature and enjoy your horse but not necessarily pursue lessons or showing, you feel like you are somehow lesser than those who do. Because you are aware of all the things you do "wrong." You get told about all the things you do "wrong." Before, I don't think a lot of people were aware they were doing things "wrong." They just did whatever worked for them and their horse.


 I don;t think that is entirely true.
I 'just trail rode for years, before I ever took one riding lesson. Only when I started to raise hroses, did I consider the need to learn to show my horses, as , face it, that did help get decent prices for the offspring, create a market for my horses, that otherwise would not have been there.
Had I not gone the route of raising horses, I most likely have never shown them either
As I learned to train them to be competitive in various disciplines, can't say I did not enjoy that chellenge
Far as looking down, that goes both ways by some people, and there are trail riders, professionals that use horses in the back country, who look with disdain, towards anything they do not consider to be a 'top using horse (ie packer of dude horse, that can survive on not much, that would never be seen blanketed, even in the worst weather, or that can't be left picketed out all night.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

I had a horse snob tell me I didn't know what I was doing and that horse was riding me.....

My response was " Your right....but I do it a lot".

I could care less about a fly lead change etc. that's not what I ride for. I ride simply for the pure joy of it. Ignorance is bliss to me....as I don't want to "find another horse to get me to the next level". 

I love being in the mountains. I love the peaceful quietness, the stunning beauty of the scenery, and having the whole place to myself....no cell service to interrupt the moment. My horses take me there....to places I couldn't go without them anymore.

I did take one lesson...if that's what you want to call it....when I asked the girl to get on Miss Lacy and show me, (demonstration drill Sargent!) she couldn't mount from the ground, never mind showing me.

That was it for the lessons.....

I'm okay with not doing it right.....


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I rode many trail miles, before I ever took one lesson
Probably have enjoyed trail miles as much as anyone here, esp since my husband only trail rides, is an avid trophy hunter, and horses are what gets him into the wilderness he and I both love.
Even in the years I was actively showing, I balanced that with many family pack trips into wilderness, and both my sons have those memories
Now that I am older, no longer am raising horses, I have gone back to mainly trail riding, for several reasons.
I never showed just for personal glory-it was part of trying to have a successful breeding program, make sure the horses I raised and started, had both a demand and a future, much as possible, and without needing to pay some trainer.
Sure, you can still just raise recreational horses, but then you are lucky to break even, and I sure would never have had those International buyers
I have reverted now to mainly trail riding, because it is easier, more relaxing, less stressful.no need to keep a horse in show condition, ect, etc Much cheaper also! Can't justify showing on the breed circuit, if not trying to market horses,as it is not cheap!
However, there is no shame, in also enjoying putting great lead changes on a horse ( certainly not on the horses I just recreationally ride), so why should there be any shame in those goals also?
It can be one or the other, or a blend of both, depending on your goals
I do know, that I sure kept my horses ridden more regularly, when I had to keep them show tuned and in show shape
I also know what I learned from many of those clinics that I took, not only served me to show horses, but to train them more successfully for trail riding also
When I long trot on a trail ride, to make time, I do not worry about diagonals, but nice to know them, for other times.
I think I also learned a lot of correct bit function, progressing a horse from a snaffle to a curb, through good show training programs. 
If you only wish to recreationally ride, then I agree, you have no need to teach your horse flying changes
, nor leads
However, I do know, because my horses sidepasses well, if we come to a gate, I get to work it . No, you don;t need to show to put those things on a horse, but you are more liable to, if you do show
My husband is happy if a horse he rides, goes down that trail calmly, is pretty much the same, without needing regular riding, and thus that is perfectly okay for anyone like him, as he has the horse that serves the purpose for his needs.

Me, sorry , but when I ride out by myself around home, I sure like to lope along once in awhile and do every other stride lead changes. I don't think that is wrong, but is not what everyone else might require.
You do with your horse what you both enjoy-end of story!


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

I raised and field trialed beagles for many years.....got a closet full of dust collectors (trophy's) to show for it. Finished one second at the nationals...

Frankly, it stole the joy out of it.....the more I got into it, the more extreme it got....I went through probably 150 dogs or more looking for "that one" who could do it "by the rule book". I let a lot of pretty good hounds go as one day I went out back and had 21 hounds....more than I could possible evaluate, much less work with and train....

The problem with the rule book is judges interpret it differently....then there's the "being on the circuit" element....."that dogs got two wins"....etc....never mind the buddy buddy, wink and a nod.....you put a win on mine and I'll put a win on yours....that covertly happens....

At the end of the day, I paid to get another man's opinion of my dog, sometimes an honest opinion and sometimes not.

I refuse to get drawn into that with my horses again. They're not perfect, and neither am I.....

I do go to a few horse shows every year.....but there's a few things I don't really understand about them..

For example, a one horse class? Really? At least with field trialing, we had a minimum number of entries.....can't make up a class then it was scratched.......So, there's one horse in the class, it gets the "blue ribbon"...and what have they accomplished other than showing up?

Some shows, actually, most shows, allow geldings.....which I don't get.....they can't breed, so how does putting a win on a gelding help the breed?

There's a lot of people who do enjoy showing and I think that's great....not slighting them at all....but often I've been asked "why don't you show Miss Lacy?

My answer is because I love her to much to do that to her.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

I'm remembering my little horse that I had when I was a kid. He was barely a horse at 14.2 hands. He was not exactly the most attractive little horse and we would have been laughed out of a show ring.
Growing up in S. California in the seventies where there was more room to ride than there is now, but still not a whole lot. My best friend and I rode that pony everywhere. We were both to young and ignorant to know that a horse could get us hurt, dump us and leave us in the dust to run home and get hurt himself too. This little horse never gave us a clue that could happen.

I got him from the animal shelter who had rescued him from neglect. Someone had trained this little horse at one time because we would ride him around in the ring doing figure eights with no saddle or bridle on him. We would stop, back up, go forward, and sideways all this just giving cues with our legs and seat. Honestly, we were even too ignorant to know that was what we were doing. 

We rode him on the streets of the valley for hours at a time. Going through McDonalds drive thru for fries and a coke (which we shared with him), up and down streets with cars whizzing by (some honking their horns), through school fields where we would stop and ride around goofing off and doing stupid things, pretending he was a famous racehorse running as fast as he could around the school track. We would pretend he was a trick horse and do stupid moves with him. We would fall off sometimes and he would just stop and patiently wait for us to get up and get back on. I would stop at the house and put him in the backyard while I got something to eat and drink, and then go back there and play touch tag with him. I would chase him and then slap him on the butt and then turn around and run and he would chase me back. Never a foot out of line with him. 

That little horse had a good part in who I am today, the person that is reasonably fearless around horses. I wish he were alive today so I could give him one more big fat carrot, a hug and a kiss on the nose and tell him thank you.

And, he was just a little, ugly, trail horse that would never see anything else but that. He was worth his weight in gold to me at a time when I was still learning and too stupid to know anything different.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I think a lot of us who are still into horses today had one of those "just a trail horses". They are invaluable. Better than any babysitter, Iphone or TV.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I have taken lessons and shown in dressage, hunter/jumper, western pleasure, AQHA Style HUS, and I have spent multiple hours on trail and riding in the backyard. I'm not your typical show person. I bought my first horse at 3 and I still have him, he is now 33. I showed him for years and years with me being the "trainer" (No true experience mind you), we moved up levels together and when he leveled - I stayed where he leveled. When I got my new horse, I used a "real" trainer. They put all sorts of training devices on him and taught him headset and this and that. I showed him, we earned points, he lamed up on me (Navicular). I bred for him so he was born mine and is now 10. I ride him bareback around the yard or haul him out to the mountains for a ride and show him local level on occasion. Now my new horse - I got him at 6 months. I sent him to boot camp for 30 days as a yearling and then I sent him for a start-up package as a 2 year old. Then as a 3 year old he got the basic tune-up and upgraded package. I haven't shown him yet but I've been cruising around the yard having a blast. I'm thinking about hauling him to the mountains to see the leaves changing and may send him back for the "King Ranch" package as a 4 year old. I might take him to a show in November... but we'll see. For me it's more about having fun and enjoying the horses. I have never thought that "Just trail horses" and riders have been less than but I do feel like certain "show" people think they are more than. It's kind of like parents... I see on facebook all the time - these stay at home moms doing their fat shaming - drink a shake and exercise videos while they post pictures of the fancy meals they've cooked and the clean living rooms... Almost like they think they are more than because they stay home while others work... I can post pictures of my dirty house, overgrown lawn, pre-made lasagna but I'd rather be at the baseball field with my kid... Not sure why people compare... ok - that's my rant anyway...


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

gunslinger said:


> Some shows, actually, most shows, allow geldings.....which I don't get.....they can't breed, so how does putting a win on a gelding help the breed?



Because geldings are the backbone of the entire horse industry, regardless of breed. Geldings also show what their parents can produce, and although they themselves may not be breeding-worthy, as are far too many mares and stallions, they are often performance champions in their own right. Just because a horse is gelded doesn't mean it's not an exemplary example of its breed.


I could be wrong and someone correct me if I am, but haven't the majority of the Tevis Cup winners been geldings? Those are some amazingly fit athletes, and I don't see anyone poo-poohing because they're geldings. The same can be said for the Dressage ring, as well as any performance based activity, even racing. 


So it makes absolute and complete sense to have geldings compete in both breed and open shows, since they're showing what they as individuals can do, as well as showcase what their parents have produced.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

While is is nice to see what a mare of stallion themselves can do, their true value as breeding animals is in what they produce, esp if that is with some consistency
There is also you own ethics involved, far as showing, same as in anything else

I was also never the ' type of show person where winning became everything, nor even a typical breeder, as I have horses I could have sold for very good money, at one time,when they were winning, but instead kept those that had become special to me, and when the time came, gave them a good end.

There is no line that defines you as a good horse person, dividing you as either a show person or a trail rider, nor does that division group horses in those that are loved, well cared for, and those that are just 'tools'

I knew a trail rider, that belonged to the local light horse, but only took part in the trail riding activity, and never showed
He rode an Arabian, not that the breed of horse mattered. He rode that horse with a long shanked curb and a tie down, and had no problem, explaining as to how he showed that horse, 'who was boss', jerking on that bit
Maybe the horse was lucky one spring, as that 'just a trail rider;, rode along a river bank, that gave out. The horse, un able to swim, drowned, thus ending the abuse

I started with 'just a trail horse' several of them, and rode one such horse, in the Calgary Stampede parade. I also rode and packed into the back country a lot, before I ever took one clinic, and then ventured into showing

Just because one decides to show, does not mean you then need to turn into a 'jeckle and Hyde' horse person
I already stated that I appreciate a good trail horse, with that truly great trail horse,being a horse you do something with, beyond just riding outside of an arena,and those whose business involves good trail horses will sure recognize the difference.

I also know people that show, who are not just 'buckle Bunnies and point chasers, who love their horse every bit as much as recreational riders, who give those horses a very good life, keep them for life and mourn their passing, same as any other horse lover.

Parents also have a lot to do with, far as their children's show ethics. For example, my one friend, who shows reining horses, once let her daughter, who was about 10 at the time, use her mare at a 4 H show. At one point, that girl jerked on the bit , being frustrated. My friend told her to get off the hrose and they were going home. Of course, her daughter became upset, and tearfully begged to stay. Mt friend did not relent, told her she jerked on her horses,s mouth, and show day was over. That girl grew into a great horse woman.

I also know recreational riders, and also hunters that just use hroses as a means to an end, where that 'just a trail hrose' is not living in utopia
Just a trail horse, just a show horse or a combo, does it matter, if that horse is well cared for and enjoys a partnership with his owner?


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

gunslinger said:


> .So, there's one horse in the class, it gets the "blue ribbon"...and what have they accomplished other than showing up?


Just thinking about this. Maybe the idea is that 6 or 10 people who view the one horse class win say to themselves, "Shoot, I could have beat that horse with so and so back home in his pasture", and then at the next event there may be 6 or 10 entries?


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

gunslinger said:


> For example, a one horse class? Really? At least with field trialing, we had a minimum number of entries.....can't make up a class then it was scratched.......So, there's one horse in the class, it gets the "blue ribbon"...and what have they accomplished other than showing up?


Have you ever watched some of the "world shows"? I watched the Palomino World show a few years ago - they streamed it live. A friend of mine won the world. She has a WORLD CHAMPION palomino. Wanna know how many people she showed against? Three. There were three people in the class.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

many shows combine classes, if there is only one entry.
Far as an exhibitor, at the breed level, it is a waste of money to go around on your own, as breed circuits work on points earned, not ribbons, and if there are not at least three horses in a class, you get no points
If you have a good horse, you want a good sized class as points are based on number of horses in that class. It costs to haul a horse, and entry fees, at the breed level are not cheap
It is not a plus, to have a horse doing great flying lead changes, enter western riding, and find that you are the only horse in that class
Awards like ROMs , year end buckles, ect, are based on points earned. Heck, ribbons are not even given out at our Appaloosa shows anymore, ect perhaps for a grand championship at halter
If you show at open futurities, again, no sense in just winning your own entry fees back.

When I showed at the Alberta Horse improvement show, and during the time the Alberta government put up money, having at least 10 horses in any evaluation class, was a plus, as then the horse with the best score, got $500
Far as all breed entry type shows, where ribbons are given out, why not give that child, riding her horse out there , by herself, that first place ribbon?


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

gunslinger said:


> For example, a one horse class? Really? At least with field trialing, we had a minimum number of entries.....can't make up a class then it was scratched.......So, there's one horse in the class, it gets the "blue ribbon"...and what have they accomplished other than showing up?


Actually, at most shows, if there's only one entrant and the judge feels they are undeserving of a ribbon, the judge has the option to withold placing. It's happened a few times at our local shows. Once was a girl who entered a walk-jog class as the only entrant on her incredibly skinny, sloppily body clipped mare. You could count this poor mare's vertebrae. The judge spoke to the show hosts before presenting ribbons and they decided that, due to the mare's condition, they would not place her, even though she was the only entrant. Another was a young lady in the geldings under 3 halter class. She was witnessed shanking her gelding HARD with a stud chain on because he wouldn't square up at the end of the class, so the judge refused to award her a ribbon, even though she was the sole entrant.

The thing is, for the most part, horse show classes are judging the horses' training and suitability for the class they are entered in. So, if someone enters a class as the sole entrant and their horse doesn't perform well or doesn't meet the ideal for the class, technically they shouldn't place.


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## weeedlady (Jul 19, 2014)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> A good, husband/kid safe trail horse is worth his weight in gold. They're very hard to find for a reason.


This thread just convinced me to go ahead and make an offer on the husband horse I've had my eye on! Thank you @evilmac for starting it.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

weedlady said:


> This thread just convinced me to go ahead and make an offer on the husband horse I've had my eye on! Thank you @evilmac for starting it.


:clap::happydance::happydance::clap::vs-king:


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

weedlady said:


> Dreamcatcher Arabians said:
> 
> 
> > A good, husband/kid safe trail horse is worth his weight in gold. They're very hard to find for a reason.
> ...



Yayyyy!! Good! I never regret for a second buying Orianna. She's such a good safe relaxed horse. She will go through anything you put in front of her and never bats and eye. Only thing that "gets" her is if she thinks you're about to beat her. If you move to fast on the ground to her or she doesn't realize what's in your hand she thinks you're going to beat her, poor thing. 

Hope you enjoy the new horse!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Actually, at most shows, if there's only one entrant and the judge feels they are undeserving of a ribbon, the judge has the option to withold placing. It's happened a few times at our local shows. Once was a girl who entered a walk-jog class as the only entrant on her incredibly skinny, sloppily body clipped mare. You could count this poor mare's vertebrae. The judge spoke to the show hosts before presenting ribbons and they decided that, due to the mare's condition, they would not place her, even though she was the only entrant. Another was a young lady in the geldings under 3 halter class. She was witnessed shanking her gelding HARD with a stud chain on because he wouldn't square up at the end of the class, so the judge refused to award her a ribbon, even though she was the sole entrant.
> 
> The thing is, for the most part, horse show classes are judging the horses' training and suitability for the class they are entered in. So, if someone enters a class as the sole entrant and their horse doesn't perform well or doesn't meet the ideal for the class, technically they shouldn't place.


True, a judge can make a statement, and I have seen a judge start his placings from third on down, as he considered none of those horses deserved first or second
Far as a lone rider, he is not really placing. Unless he is disqualified for going off pattern, why not give him that ribbon, as it means nothing except perhaps to that rider, who is most likely at entry level, as seasoned show people, esp at the breed level, really don't care about ribbons

what difference does it make, if at some entry type level show, he gets a ribbon for his effort? Just something that might give a boost to a child or a novice rider
To 'place' you have to place against someone, LOL!
I would agree with that judge, that a horse in poor condition, is a disqualification, so in that case agree, but not far as some little kid at his first show , so-give him that darn ribbon!


Most people at the bigger shows, if they are the only one in a class, will srcatch,unless just going in that class, might give them a point towards hi -pt ( that is not a breed awarded point, just a point given by that show towards hi pt tabulations 
For instance, if someone is riding for hi pt, and also takes the trouble to show the horse HUS, or reining, ect, that person should get recognition for that versatility, far as hi pt award, over and above someone just riding the rail
Of course, at the Horse Improvement evaluation show, scores versus placings were always used
Once the government money was gone, just awards remained, based on scores.

For "CLassic' a horse had to score 75 and over.
If the hrose scored 85 and over, he got "premium' Alberta bred. Very few horses got that

Thus, in a class, you could have several horses score Classic, or none, depending on the quality of horses in that class


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Husband horses at our place, have always been horses either I or my oldest son rode /trained first.
Yes, get a good safe horse for the husband, as he will then be more likely to ride with you.
My main interest has always been horses, while hubby is an avid trophy hunter and lover of wilderness. Thus, the show thing, training horses was my thing, and hubby went on some non horse hunting trips and hikes in wilderness
The trips we took out there together, on horses, and still do, is something we share

Hubby's horse Rubix, is the same, even after weeks, even months of not being ridden ( condition excluded, LOL)This works for hubby, as he wants a nice calm trail horse he can just get on and ride. I have three of my own horses to keep ridden, so just can;t put time on hubby's=he has to remain a horse you can just haul out of the pasture, put in a trailer, and head for the mountains
I do try and have a friend ride the horse once in awhile, just to be fair tot he horse, so he is not completely out of condition.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

What's wrong with a trail horse??? I don't understand it, a horse that does his job is a good horse, whether he's chasing cows, packing kids around or jumping courses. A horse that does his job well is a good horse, period.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

waresbear said:


> What's wrong with a trail horse??? I don't understand it, a horse that does his job is a good horse, whether he's chasing cows, packing kids around or jumping courses. A horse that does his job well is a good horse, period.


 
This!!!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

waresbear said:


> What's wrong with a trail horse??? I don't understand it, a horse that does his job is a good horse, whether he's chasing cows, packing kids around or jumping courses. A horse that does his job well is a good horse, period.


I don't think anyone said there was anything wrong with a good trail horse, and in fact, many of us went into great trail horses we have ridden,owned and still own, and how a great trail horse is born, just like a horse in any other discipline, far as excelling in his job


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

waresbear said:


> What's wrong with a trail horse??? I don't understand it, a horse that does his job is a good horse, whether he's chasing cows, packing kids around or jumping courses. A horse that does his job well is a good horse, period.


Some years back, the lady who did a lot to help Trooper & Mia told me about a draft cross she had once owned. She said he had a rough canter due largely to his build, and she spent 6 months trying to get him to 'move better'. One day, she realized that while his canter was no fun, his long legs were covering ground at a walk & trot in a way that left most horses behind. And yes, he was a trail horse.

She concluded, she said, "_Sometimes you need to love a horse for what he is, and not for what he is not!_"

She was probably hinting to me something about Mia. However...

I appreciate the original article as a humorous way to point out the range needed by a good trail horse. But if someone wants to knock Bandit or Trooper for being "just a trail horse", I'm content to feel sorry for the person making the comment. Not for my horse.

Heck, Bandit has his faults as a trail horse, too. And he is ridden a bit tilted and awkwardly by a 59 year old rider who is no gift to the world of riding and horses. Neither of us would ever win prizes in a show. But I can appreciate Bandit as a horse who smells and listens before entering a wash. Who is careful about putting his feet in place going down a grade. Who is improving at zig-zagging between the cactus. Who has mostly turned from a horse who races to a horse who keeps track of those behind him. Who will stop when he thinks we are getting too far ahead - because he can see behind him and I can't, and he knows I don't want to get too far ahead. Who walks slowly yet seems to constantly pull away from the others, requiring us to stop & wait - with Bandit as impatient about it as I am.

IOW, I'm happy to appreciate him as my companion on a trail. I don't feel any need to compare him to show horses or sport horses, or even to other trail horses. If someone told me we had no future in WP or reining or dressage, I'd laugh my butt off. After wiping the tears from my eyes, I'd reply, "_Devastated, I am!_" 

I'd do the same if someone told me that THEIR trail horse never worries about trash cans, or an empty bag of potato chips beside the trail. Or the MISSING empty bag of potato chips beside the trail a week later. Oh well. Mine does. He's not for sale!



waresbear said:


> ...A horse that does his job well is a good horse, period.


My judge is Bandit. His judge is me. His job is making me smile. Mine is making him perk up at the sight of a saddle. _A horse that does his job well is a good horse, period. _


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## gnpenning (Aug 19, 2017)

Sorry didn't have time to make it through all the post. As someone who has completed in more than a few different types of show and speed events. Trail riding has the potential to be the most dangerous of anything I have done. Couple that with the fact you don't have a sandy place if things go really bad. 

I used to get heck from other competitors about hunting, packing and trail riding on my performance horses. They were burning out horses pushing them in competition and not riding anyway else. 

I used the same horses for years. They enjoyed not be pushed and getting out for relaxing rides and not having a bit in their mouths. 

I do like my horses responsive to hands and leg cues. 

Most the people I competed with horses would never put up with much of the outside stimulus a good trail horse does . By the same token most trail horses couldn't work a cow the same way there horses would or be as responsive. 

Bottom line be proud of being an accomplished trail rider. Never push your 
Horse or yourselve to be something your not. Embrace and enjoy your strengths! !

I love trail riding on a good horses with good company.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Nothing like a good trail horse when out riding where those attributes really count
I rather ride a good trail horse out, then an upper schooled horse who's a 'space cadet ' on a trail ride.
When you are going up or down a tricky trail does not matter if your horse is dead leaded, can doing flying changes, but rather as to whether you can pitch him slack, and he carefully picks his own way down that tricky trail,whether you can trust him to cross that fast flowing river, have him spook in place when a deer suddenly pops out of the trees,can leave him tied up all night, and then just ride out at dawn, wind blowing, no lunging, just get on and ride
I value such a horse, same as the next person=a horse you can leave tied all night, and sleep tight, knowing he still will be there in the morning. A horse you can guide through a bog,versus that horse blindly plunging to what he thinks is solid ground. A horse that is calm when mountain bikes suddenly come up on him,quads, logging trucks, horse drawn wagons, ect, ect
A good trail horse is NOT a horse you can just ride out with other horses, and therein, perhaps lies the failure of recognition by many, of what is truly a great trail horse, thus coining the phrase, 'just a traIL horse\
Just a trail horse, should still know how to give in the face and poll when asked,go in any bit, or even bittless,not need things like tie downs, not jig, can be ridden out alone, or with other horses, and in any position
Can have saddle bags on him, accept having things taken out of them while mounted, stand on a loose rein, when asked, so you can take pictures, stand by anything substituting as a mounting block, and most of all, in my books, go at the speed asked,on a loose rein, whether going towards camp or away from it


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## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

I'm with Smilie on this one. A good trail horse, a really good trail horse, has a surprising amount of training put on him to be a good trail horse. They are exposed to a lot of scary things and have to listen and have trust in the rider in order to find the best way to get themselves from point A to point B. Except of course for the times you need that horse to be sensible and choose his own path, over rocks or whatnot, without getting hot and tearing through the obstacle at 900 miles an hour or sending you both off a cliff. Sure I like to do the fancy things like flying lead changes and spins ... but I'm also equally happy riding a nice broke trail horse on a loose rein off into the wilderness, knowing that we're going to have a smooth fun ride. A dependable calm trail horse that does what you ask willingly is worth his weight in gold. 

-- Kai


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