# Ugh..this made me sad..again..



## Zanesgirl (Jun 21, 2008)

Me, im not a supporter of PETA either, i eat meat, etc, but i in no way condone animal cruelty! bull fighting, dog fighting, cockfighting its all the same to me, absolutely abhorrent behaviour!

im glad you dug your heels in on the bullfighting thing, it would have been very traumatic for you, for anyone i reckon!

me, i guess im close to a pacifist, well sort of lol

anyway, happy to read your vent, and hope you feel better soon!

hugs for you


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## geewillikers (May 4, 2008)

I don't think you sound weird at all.,Education can do wonders I won't get into all the detailed evidence I have regarding the meat industry in the US, or animals rights (because I'll probably get slammed), but man, it is great to have you on the forum. I feel quite alone here in respect to these issues. Thanks for posting.


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## RusticWildFire (Jul 6, 2008)

Well good, I'm glad to hear I'm not alone either!! We got through our presentation and made a pretty good argument I thought. Like we said...eating meat isn't wrong. Both of us presenting the argument eat meat but things need to be done to ensure that the animals are treated well and slaughtered (I'm not so sure I like that word) humanely. Some nasty things ARE done and it's wrong. And like you (geewillikers) said I don't want to get into it either to start an argument or get slammed. We all have our opinions and such..and not every slaughterhouse is cruel. There are some good ones...but yeah anyway...before I go on a rant I'm just gonna smile  haha!


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## Joshie (Aug 26, 2008)

When you're researching things online please remember to check out the source. Much of the information you find about KFC, for example, is from PETA or similar organizations. KFC is huge. They don't own the chicken farms. They purchase chickens from farmers. KFC is in the restaurant business not the farming business.


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## RusticWildFire (Jul 6, 2008)

Yeah, I know. I realize everything on the internet isn't true. 

I also did a bunch of research on the KFC thing before and I know they don't own the farms. I may have made it sound like I thought they did earlier but I know they have "supplier farms" or whatever you want to call them..But still, just because they don't own the farms doesn't make it right.


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## geewillikers (May 4, 2008)

Joshie said:


> When you're researching things online please remember to check out the source. Much of the information you find about KFC, for example, is from PETA or similar organizations. KFC is huge. They don't own the chicken farms. They purchase chickens from farmers. KFC is in the restaurant business not the farming business.


Understood. But KFC supports those farms and keeps them in business. All fast food and large scale food distributors support the worst farms of the meat industry. They are warehouses, not farms. Most animals are made in a test tube.


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## RusticWildFire (Jul 6, 2008)

geewillikers said:


> Joshie said:
> 
> 
> > When you're researching things online please remember to check out the source. Much of the information you find about KFC, for example, is from PETA or similar organizations. KFC is huge. They don't own the chicken farms. They purchase chickens from farmers. KFC is in the restaurant business not the farming business.
> ...




Exactly.


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## Deb (Feb 12, 2008)

There is no such thing as humane slaughter. The animals don't stand there quietly so that the killers aim is true. Chickens twist and turn and don't quite hit the stun bath and so as they pass the knives, sometimes their throats are cut, but sometimes legs are cut off or wings instead. Pigs and cattle don't hold still for the bolt gun either, and that bolt will hit them in the eye or face instead, breaking bones and tissue, but not killing. And because there is an assembly line,the next one is already on the way in, so the chain gets wrapped around the leg, they are hoisted up and throats cut and bellies ripped. 

Yes PETA does make some of the videos, because no one else will. They stand by and do nothing even though their hearts are breaking, so that the video record can be shown to the world. When you think to convince yourself that your eating habits aren't all that bad, google cattle slaughter video, or pig slaughter video. Find out how really humane it is.

If you are Jewish, google Agriprocessors animal abuse and see what your kosher beef goes through. Do any of you dare?


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## Joshie (Aug 26, 2008)

Deb said:


> There is no such thing as humane slaughter.


Boy, I hope you don't eat meat, use a leather saddle, use cosmetics (have been tested on animals, if not now, the basis of all current cosmetics, shampoos, etc., have been animal tested), use medications, use bug spray, etc. 

OK, it stinks when things are killed. Life is life. But, I don't believe the worth of an animal's life is equal to the worth of mine, or any human's.


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## Deb (Feb 12, 2008)

Joshie said:


> Boy, I hope you don't eat meat, use a leather saddle, use cosmetics (have been tested on animals, if not now, the basis of all current cosmetics, shampoos, etc., have been animal tested), use medications, use bug spray, etc.
> 
> OK, it stinks when things are killed. Life is life. But, I don't believe the worth of an animal's life is equal to the worth of mine, or any human's.


Good for me, don't do any of those things. The only thing I have to admit to is that the old saddle that I bought fifteen years ago (second hand at the time also) still hangs in my barn. But I am retired and on a limited income so cannot go and buy a new one. But if I could, synthetic is the way I would go. As far as my riding goes, we no longer do the riding arena practises, instead choosing to just trail ride in our neighborhood and I usually lead my second horse as we go so it is more like going for walks just to break up the monotony. My horses have a pretty good life. And when they finally die of old age, the saddles will be destroyed not passed on to someone else.

I don't use anything that has been tested on animals, nor do I use any eggs or dairy and definitely don't eat flesh. And when I say good for me, that is true in more ways than one. My risk of heart disease is waaaay down, as well as various other illness including cancer. Because most processed foods contain animal products of one kind or another, I eat far less of those as well and instead eat more fresh vegetables and fruit and beans and legumes and nuts which are loaded nutrients and fibre. My weight is now down to a very healthy level (without "dieting") 5'4" and 120 lbs. and it is stable without me having to control it. It just is.

One day long ago, I looked at my horses, at a little bunny that we had, my dogs, and knowing home much I loved them and delighted in their being, I realized that to butcher them or anything like them, was a travesty that I could no longer be involved in. I became a vegetarian for many years from that point on, and about a year ago, extended that to embrace veganism. The absolute hardest thing about being a vegan is seeing how people continue to use animals without thought to their feelings and pain. That tears me apart.


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

Good for you for standing up for your beliefs about the bull fighting!!!! As for some of the posts...I just have to say...I believe that certain animals must be killed...its the natural way of things. I eat meat, use leather and no telling how many other animal based products. However, we as humans are supposed to be the most intelligent among living things...cant we find a more humane, quick and painless way to slaughter!!!!


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## Joshie (Aug 26, 2008)

Deb said:


> I don't use anything that has been tested on animals, nor do I use any eggs or dairy and definitely don't eat flesh.......The absolute hardest thing about being a vegan is seeing how people continue to use animals without thought to their feelings and pain. That tears me apart.


See, I think we all use animals. If you go to the store and purchase anything you've been a part of their use of insecticide, products that have been directly tested on animals etc. I think that it's very difficult to know what has been tested on animals and what has not. Some of these things were tested on when they first came out but no longer are. But we would not have these products today if not for the original animal testing. Also, what about all our medications? These are, or have been, tested on animals.

But, I think you're assuming a lot if you think that because I eat mean and use animal products that I don't care about the welfare of animals. That's just not so. Think about the service hunters perform for us. Deer season is in the fall. Deer populations can balloon out of control in areas where hunting isn't allowed. Deer in those areas may overpopulate the area's resources and starve. 

I absolutely do care about the welfare of animals. I think animals feel but they are not human and they are different from us so I try not to assign human thoughts and feelings to them. I think it's important to be a good steward for animals but, because we are all different, we're going to do that differently. It's not that one way or the other is wrong. It's just one of those differences all have.


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## ScarlettPompey (Oct 14, 2008)

Debs - just want to put my points across on a couple of your comments.

Ultimately we are designed to be omnivores, and intake a selection of foods. Being vegan DOES NOT automatically mean you have a better diet... not every meat eater is over-weight, and the lack of protein in vegetarian diets (particularly vegan), can result in other problems (particularly with the digestive tract, liver and kidney function). Pulses and nuts are secondary proteins and are not as good as protein from meat and fish!

Also, i just want to add, that not every meat eater resorts to processed food either...


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## hillbillyin (Jul 26, 2008)

Well, I don't approve of the bullfighting at all. But, I feel kind of bad now, because we bought a hog this spring to raise for slaughter for our own meat. She's due to go to the butcher in a month. Hope noone thinks I'm horrible for this, it's just good to know that the meat I'm eating was raised humanely, and also to know what she was fed. But I don't think I'm brave enough to watch any of those videos.:-|


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## RusticWildFire (Jul 6, 2008)

Not all slaughtering is inhumane. Don't feel bad. It's not wrong to eat meat. And besides, you know you raised the pig and gave it a good life  This is mostly directed to those who are treated inhumanely throughout their life.


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## Kincsem (Oct 27, 2008)

The protein in milk and eggs is just as good as the protein in meat. Milk is low on iron but some greens can provide that. Some people could have a few well protected chickens or ducks for eggs instead of raising animals to eat. Contrary to what some peole claim well fed chickens can provide just as many eggs when they are older as they did when they were one. Years ago a man who had battery cage hens sold some locally for 1 month before sending the rest to slaughter. I bought 20 of them. Some were very sad looking and some were well feathered(the dominant ones.) Some were still laying and some were not. After a couple of months and new feather growth they all looked good except one that died. They all started laying really well and kept on laying until they died. I did not eat any of them. I had them for years. I also had ducks. Duck eggs are sweeter tasting. Dogs like eggs and can eat them instead of meat also. Ditto for milk and cheese. Some people have a cow for milk and cheese and a cow does not need to be freshened every year. A cow can keep on giving milk for years. I have raised cattle also and have seen a cow nurse the same calf for 3 or more years. Cruelty in raising,transporting, and slaughtering + other cruelty turned me into a vegetarian. I am against all cruelty and I believe the Biblical saying "man hath no preeminence above a beast". Testing on animals was never necessary and never proved safety for people. Tissue cultures give quicker more accurate results. Fetal cell cultures can help distinguish what drugs may be harmful to developing embryos. Only species specific cultures provide reliable data. Things that harm one species could be harmless in another.


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## Snapple122 (Aug 8, 2008)

> the saddles will be destroyed not passed on to someone else


OK, what good is that going to do? Sorry, but I just don't get it..

I am all for animal rights, and they should never , ever be abused. But I mean, cows are _raised_ for their meat.. what else are they good for? Honestly. And then, if no one ate meat, how would ranchers earn their money so they can feed their families, etc. I don't believe in eating dogs, cats, horses, rabbits, etc because they were not born to be eaten.. they have a purpose. But some cultures do eat them, and it would be very ignorant to sit here and tell them that they shouldn't; It's what they believe in and they are entitled to that. 
And just because you don't eat meat, it doesn't make you any healthier. I want to see solid, reliable proof from a reliable source that eating meat is bad for you. I mean, some fatty meat is bad for you obviously, but has important omega fats and stuff.


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## Kentucky (Aug 2, 2008)

*I don't support bull fighting, cock fighting or dog fighting.* The breed of bull used for that is bred for fighting, a former friend of mine had one on my place. that little terror of impossible to work with. He was killed after he left my place after tring to kill three guys. That breed is the last living desends of a breed of wild cattle of Europe that has (in the wild) exinct since Roman times. i hate that breed, that have to sure to anyone outside rodeo, and those poeple who do that sport.
*Is is more cruel to quickly kill an animals or let it live and suffer? *


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## VACountryGirl (Jan 14, 2009)

Snapple122 said:


> OK, what good is that going to do? Sorry, but I just don't get it..
> 
> I am all for animal rights, and they should never , ever be abused. But I mean, cows are _raised_ for their meat.. what else are they good for? Honestly. And then, if no one ate meat, how would ranchers earn their money so they can feed their families, etc. I don't believe in eating dogs, cats, horses, rabbits, etc because they were not born to be eaten.. they have a purpose. But some cultures do eat them, and it would be very ignorant to sit here and tell them that they shouldn't; It's what they believe in and they are entitled to that.
> And just because you don't eat meat, it doesn't make you any healthier. I want to see solid, reliable proof from a reliable source that eating meat is bad for you. I mean, some fatty meat is bad for you obviously, but has important omega fats and stuff.


Red meat is very high in saturated fat. Its a proven fact that a diet high in saturated fat leads to obesity, high cholesterol, and clogged arteries. Read: bad for your heart! Numerous studies have been done that show people who eat a diet low in red meat and high in vegetables and omega fats have less heart problems and lead healthier lives. Proof of that is the mediterranean diet. Obviously, red meat on occasion isn't going to hurt you. But according to this study, people who ate red meat more than three times a week had higher cholesterol than those who didn't.

As for farmers/ranchers, they could grow grain or vegetables. If they did it organically, it'd been even better. The amount of pollution released by slaughter animals is staggering, and has led to global warming. Here's an article on it, but all you have to do is Google "Global Warming and Cattle Farming." Cattle produce more global warming gases than cars

Also, I think factory farming is heinous. There is a humane way to slaughter animals, and this is NOT it. Organic meat has not gone through this type of handling, and thus can be purchased with less guilt. Not everyone can afford organic, but if you can, its definitely better. Cattle who are used for organic milk are treated much better and lead happier lives than those stuck in a rotating cage that has an apperatus that attaches and sucks on their udders. Your statement about "what else are cows good for?" doesn't make a valid point. What are squirrels good for? What are horses good for? Some people have cows as pets and show them! What are ferrets good for? We could go on and on. And in other cultures, the cow is revered as a sacred animal. (I believe in Hinduism, but I might be wrong.) Who is to say what each animal was born for? It was humans that decided each animal's purpose, not a higher being. So its all relative.


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## NewHeart (Dec 10, 2008)

Deb said:


> As far as my riding goes, we no longer do the riding arena practises


I am just curious if this is a personal preference that does not pertain to animals cruelty, or do you really feel that the use of an arena is considered cruel? I am not seeing the connection, but that very well just could be me. Personally, I think my horses are just as happy doing arena work as they are out on the trail, but then again thats just me.


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

Lol, following NewHeart's tangent, we've got a horse that isn't ever completely calm and relaxed unless she's in an arena. Maybe someone wacky could say that's only because she's been raised in a supressed manner and is now screwy in the head thanks to humanity... but I'm not even going to try to get into that.

I do keep to a mostly poultry, fish, eggs, and dairy diet (veggies and fruits included) and when life allows for it, I plan on getting myself a few chickens rather than to store buy eggs. And yes, with all said and done, the human being is an omnivore... no denying it. That's why we have the little pointy teeth in our mouth (though you're welcome to file them off if you like... don't know whether that would mess with your enamel or not).

As for destroying a leather saddle just so other people can't use it. There's an element of stupidity in that. The animal who gave that leather is already dead. Nothing can be done to undo it. But if you pass the saddle on to someone else, they are not as likely to buy a new leather saddle and thus perpetuate the killing. Make sense?


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

Most animals are made in a test tube? This township has over 10,000 head of cattle and 1 million turkeys. Not 1 from a test tube. So tell me all you that think meat comes from these terrable places do you eat meat? Have any suggestions to raise it another way and still feed over 300,000,000 people?


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## morganshow11 (Dec 19, 2008)

ugh, why would some one let their horse get stabbed with the bulls horns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that made me fricken cry!!


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## RockinTheBit07 (Jan 3, 2008)

wow I never knew they used horses in bull fighting! I never liked bull fighting to begin with, what is the point in provocking an animal and then slowly killing it? A little demented and sick to me. And then blinding a horse???? I have just lost my respect for the spanish, portugesse(sp i dont care...) and other "things" that do that and sit there and watch it..... I just dont see the point, if you want to see blood and gore then fight anotehr human like the gladiators to the death instead of using poor animals especially since horses usually arent bred to fight like that.....i was actually planning on visiting spain when (if) i go to England...not now.


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## Kentucky (Aug 2, 2008)

I believe and am almost sure of this, but in Portugesse bull fighting the bull is not killed. Unlike in Mexico, Spain and several other countries.


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## Kincsem (Oct 27, 2008)

I do not understand why the Pope has not told them to end the cruelty. The Catholic church teaches that animals do have souls and they have a day set aside where they bless animals. If I was the Pope I would tell them to stop the cruelty or be excommunicated. I just had my 33 year old horse euthanized last month by the veterinarian and it was humane. He injected the sodium pentobarbitol(blue not pink) in her neck and she died peacefully. She had gone down and could not get up.


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