# Disappointed in a Buck Brannaman Clinic



## MyBoyPuck

Wow, I can certainly understand your disappointment. It is odd that he would take shots at dressage riders when there were some right there and was otherwise rude. Sorry you felt like you threw money out the window. I do know how bad that feels.


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## Ike

Actually the story you are telling mirrors EXACTLY what I saw in a 2-day Ray Hunt clinic I attended just a couple of years before his death. I was glad I audited it instead of paying to participate. Several riders left after the mid afternoon break and didn't return.

Ike


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## gigem88

I've never been to one of his clinics, just watched some videos. While he seemed to be quite knowledgable, he definitely was not a teacher or even a decent public speaker. Some people are speakers and some doers! Sorry you had such a bad experience.


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## boots

That's a shame. I would have been disappointed, too.


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## womack29

That sucks. Thanks for sharing so others do not have the same experience.


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## TurkishVan

gigem88 said:


> I've never been to one of his clinics, just watched some videos. While he seemed to be quite knowledgable, he definitely was not a teacher or even a decent public speaker. Some people are speakers and some doers! Sorry you had such a bad experience.


For as many clinics as he's given, I was disappointed with his teaching abilities too. I just thought he'd be a bit better than he really was. His descriptions were very vague, and there was hardly any feedback at all. I think he addressed the same 4 people everyday, and that's it. Usually just to tell them, "Getting better" or something along those lines. He mostly just sat in the middle of the arena either talking to organiser or his helper, or just watching. A couple of times it seemed like he forgot about us, then after 30 minutes he would tell us to do a half circle in, and switch directions. 

At the end of the clinic he made a comment about how hard it would be for all of us to remember all of the information presented in his clinic, and how we should come to more clinics or audit them. My friend and I talked about it afterwards and agreed that we'd have a hard time forgetting the little bit of info he presented us with, as we did the same thing everyday, all day...

It just seemed like there was a lack of real instruction there. It was mostly, "Just keep doing it until you figure it out on your own." My friend and I actually critiqued each other.


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## TurkishVan

Ike said:


> Actually the story you are telling mirrors EXACTLY what I saw in a 2-day Ray Hunt clinic I attended just a couple of years before his death. I was glad I audited it instead of paying to participate. Several riders left after the mid afternoon break and didn't return.
> 
> Ike


So Ray Hunt was like this too? Interesting. I thought maybe Buck's attitude came from his bad past, but maybe he picked it up from Ray. 

You know, even if Buck couldn't teach, I realized that he knew what he was doing. It's such a shame that such a good horseman had to be lacking in simple manners. I could've excused the bad teacher part and left disappointed, but not hurt. The bad attitude just put the icing on the (foul-tasting) cake. :-|


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## EmilyJoy

^^Check out Clinton Anderson (You Tube) He's got a lot of good stuff, and he is a very good people teacher.


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## Saddlebag

Buck speaks openly for how his father treated him and his brother. It seems the apple has fallen close to the tree as many others have complained about his treatment of those attending his clinics.


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## Ninamebo

I'm sorry you had that bad experience. 

It's these types of stories that make me hesitant to ever go to any clinics- when a well known horseman is given this bad of a clinic review I am too worried to spend my money on any persons clinic. Maybe I'll get over my silly fears someday, but for now I'll stick to my instructor


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## tinyliny

TurkishVan said:


> For as many clinics as he's given, I was disappointed with his teaching abilities too. I just thought he'd be a bit better than he really was. His descriptions were very vague, and there was hardly any feedback at all. I think he addressed the same 4 people everyday, and that's it. Usually just to tell them, "Getting better" or something along those lines. He mostly just sat in the middle of the arena either talking to Kip Fladland or his helper, or just watching. A couple of times it seemed like he forgot about us, then after 30 minutes he would tell us to do a half circle in, and switch directions.
> 
> At the end of the clinic he made a comment about how hard it would be for all of us to remember all of the information presented in his clinic, and how we should come to more clinics or audit them. My friend and I talked about it afterwards and agreed that we'd have a hard time forgetting the little bit of info he presented us with, as we did the same thing everyday, all day...
> 
> It just seemed like there was a lack of real instruction there. It was mostly, "*Just keep doing it until you figure it out on your own." My friend and I actually critiqued each other.*


Unfortunately, that is pretty much true. you really do have to keep doing things until you figure them out on your own.

The turns on the fore/hind are something that are done for the horse's benefit. doing them MANY times is helpful to the horse. Doing them many times, back to back, such as in a clinic, is artificial. But, doing them a LOT , out on the trail or while riding, anytime you feel your horse brace up, will help to make a soft horse. the movement of stepping under with the inside hind, lifting the fore and stepping over wiht the inside fore are important for suppling the horse, and much more effective than just pulling his head around til his nose touches your toe, at a stand still (CA).

It's going to be really, really boring, though , doing them over and over. And, with so many people, you don't get any feedback about HOW you are doing it. and HOW you are doing it matters. Are you training the hrose to do it himself? or are you dragging him heavily, resistant, around on his forehand? That would be where some help , one on one, would be valuable. And with 30 riders, he can't do much to help.

I think that his being rude is his original humor becoming sour. I think he's becoming jaded and may not see that his trademark, old timey cowboy humor is becoming a bit ugly or mean. He always says he doesn't have time or reason to not say it like it is, but being rude or mean for the sake of it, I wonder if he realized that that's how people see this.

So many people treat him like he's some kind of god, maybe he's succumbed to that belief.


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## Palomine

TurkishVan said:


> I really didn't want to put this in the "Horse Training" section, as I'm more disappointed in a person here.
> 
> So my friends and I saved up to attend a Buck Brannaman clinic this summer. We chose to attend the clinic this last weekend. I'd been reading about Ray Hunt's methods and riding for months, and my friends had been preparing as well. One friend was in the Ranch Roping session, so he roped endlessly. We were all geared for a good time, and anxious to see how our skills would be put to the test. None of us really had the money to attend, but we scrimped and saved, and decided to split frozen dinners instead of cooking decent meals, just to attend this clinic. We were all very serious about this clinic, so we didn't goof around or act stupid. We hung on his every word, and tried our hardest at the exercises he assigned.
> 
> So Day 1: We arrive at the Equestrian Center. The stalls are more like a sale barn- just cattle panels making a square stall. No wheelbarrows for transporting manure, just muck buckets that you have to drag. Irritating, but we made do.
> My friend and I each decided to take the Horsemanship 1 session, thinking that's where everyone has to start. We get our horses into the arena, and the first 45 minutes is Buck talking to us about molding a good bridle horse. After that, we are sent around the arena to do small serpentines and circles, to practice pivoting the horse on his back and front feet only. We do this for the next hour and a half. Then we quit and Buck talks and takes questions. We did not do ANYTHING else that first day.
> During the activities, Buck talks about past clinic participants, and gets really rude. He talked about asking one woman "where her belly button was" (I'm assuming in relation to her pelvis posture), and the crowd laughed when she, not quite understanding, pointed to her belly button. A few other participants were asking about the mecate reins that he wanted everyone to use, and he looked at them and said they'd be laughed out of any arena he and his friends were in, because they had rope halters under their bridles. (We talked to them later, and they said they expected there to be quite a bit of groundwork, which was the reason for the halters.) Buck also talked down about dressage and dressage riders, describing them as snobby. He had about 5-6 participants riding in dressage saddles, so I didn't think it was a wise choice.
> 
> Day 2: Buck spends the first 45 minutes talking. We do small serpentines and small circles again. Practice pivoting on back feet, practice pivoting on front feet. Same thing as Day 1. Most people don't seem to be struggling with it, and by this time my horse was about ready to kill me, as she had been doing it right on Day 1, and there was no variation in the tasks assigned. All of this is done walking. We do no trotting whatsoever in the entire 4 days.
> Today Buck makes a few rude comments, one about people in his California clinics that come up and say to him, "Buck, I've got a rescue horse..." He said that then he has to "save the rescue from the rescuer" and went on to say that "feeding and watering a horse isn't enough. They aren't content with just that." I understand that some people make excuses for their horses, but what's wrong with people caring for them if it makes them feel good? And , the guy who arranged the clinic (in reality, he just took the checks; he didn't do much else), was by the fence when I went by him and he laughed and said to a guy next to him, "Hear how quiet it is?" It was just rude. Like my friend said, it was a pretty stupid remark for Buck to make, considering he himself is a "rescue."
> 
> Day 3: Talking for 45 minutes. Same serpentines and small circles. He added backing to the list, to try to get people to develop a "soft feel." It mixed it up a bit more, but not much. Buck was nicer, and nothing nasty was said. Spent the last 45 minutes answering questions or just telling stories.
> 
> Day 4: Talking for 45 minutes at first. Small serpentines and small circles, and turning while backing. Trying to develop a soft feel. Buck was still nicer, but I expected stuff to come together on the last day. We ended the session about 15 minutes early, with the last 30 minutes being devoted to him advertising a "Legacy of Legends" gathering in Las Vegas.
> 
> 
> 
> All in all, we were very, very disappointed in the clinic. When I left for this clinic, I literally had $50 in my bank account. I had to withdrawl $200 from my emergency fund bank account (of $600) just to have money for meals. I cried on the 2nd day because I felt so, so cheated. I could have used that money for vet bills, HAY, my car... And I just wasted it.
> I couldn't believe that we didn't accomplish more at this clinic. What Buck taught me in 4 days (12 hours of riding), could have been taught by my current riding instructor in 1 hour of instruction (at $40/hr). In fact, I knew everything that we were doing in the clinic. I'd covered it millenia ago, and even my friend, who didn't take lessons but who'd ridden her whole life, was disappointed. My guy friend wasn't unhappy with the roping session, as they got to practice on live cattle. I wish I would have done that instead. I overheard about one participant that didn't have a lively horse, asking the organiser what he thought the problem was. He went on and on about how he'd seen horses that were scared of cattle, and that was definitely the problem. He got p***y with the people when they tried to kindly object. Actually, that horse was as cool as a cucumber when a cow whizzed by him- he just seemed bored, as most of them were standing around all the time.
> 
> One mother and her son were participating, but they left a day early. The little boy was probably 7, and he was an excellent rider. No idea why they left. A dressage rider across from us was p.o.'ed about the rude comments towards those in dressage. I'd ridden around her quite a bit, and saw that her horse was well-trained, and relaxed. She wasn't hanging off his mouth by any means. No one was, actually.
> 
> I just don't know what to think.... How disappointing. We went for a fun time, and it was just pure torture. All of the horses there were reasonably well-trained (no dangerous horses), and no one got injured, or even close to it. But Buck kept stating that "We'd never have a horse as broke as his." I wanted to say, "Well, probably not, but can't we try? What's wrong with trying? Why shoot us down when we haven't begun to try yet?" It just seemed like he always wanted to prove something. And we kept asking ourselves, "So, are we going to be the entertainment for the next clinic?"
> 
> I just don't know what to think anymore... :-(


THIS! Right here has me mad as can be!

But Buck kept stating that "We'd never have a horse as broke as his." 

Really? How does he know one of YOUR horses MIGHT surpass HIS!??!!!

Put bluntly? You got shafted and he ought to be ASHAMED of himself.

And everyone should be getting their money back to.

I could have taught you that which you learned OVER THE INTERNET!!!

And if you wanted to hear CHEAP SHOTS????

You can go to you know who's youtube videos for FREE!!!!!

HOW DARE HE!

And THIS right here is what happens when these clinicians get to believing in their own PR. They lose sight of the reason people attend, and it is NOT to hear them rattle their heads either.

As an offset to this whole "I am a superstar" thing? Years ago I had the honor of attending a venue in the woods of AL with 10 of the top country western acts in the world...Riders in the Sky, Waddie Mitchell, Don Edwards and the like. R. W. Hampton was there.

I had the chance this past year to see R. W. in a town not far from me so I bought a ticket and went to see him, there were 2 other acts there too, and there were some art things for sale.

R. W. and the others had, of course, CD's for sale, so I bought all of his, and one of each of the other acts too. I got autographed picture of him, but there were also posters of the 3 acts together so I asked the others if they would autograph it and then asked R. W. 

He did it, but let me tell you, the look that went across his face when I asked him to? Was just pure hatred and arrogance. Whether he didn't realize i had bought CD's or not? I don't care. But he acted like I imagine he really is, which is someone who is too big for their boots.

I'm on his FB group and frequently see him talking about his fans and how important they are to him, and so far have managed to not say how he really is...but he is NOT grateful to his fans. At all.

Saw this too with The Blackwood Brothers. The son of the original founder? Can get up there and sing old time religious songs all he wants too. He is no more a Christian than my dog, if how he treated our MR/DD consumers is any indication of how he really is. That is one evil man.

Honestly, I would write and tell his agent how disappointed you were, how humiliated you felt when he put people down, and how bad it made him look to disparage the dressage people when one was there, and how you did NOT pay to hear anecdotes about his past morons he had worked with.

You saw the REAL man there...shame you had to pay money for it....at least you know who doesn't make you pay to see people being made fun of.

I am disgusted so much by what you have written here, I can only say he has knocked CA down from the number 1 spot.


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## Critter sitter

Buck Said.....and he did take shots at ALL riding Disciplines not just dressage. 
I have heard from 7 people who attended that clinic and they were from many riding spectrum's. they all Loved the clinic. and yes they told me about him taking Jabs at the riders. 

I really wanted to go to the Clinic but work and Family stuff got in the way.
I would have gladly taken your place!


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## TurkishVan

tinyliny said:


> The turns on the fore/hind are something that are done for the horse's benefit. doing them MANY times is helpful to the horse. Doing them many times, back to back, such as in a clinic, is artificial. But, doing them a LOT , out on the trail or while riding, anytime you feel your horse brace up, will help to make a soft horse. the movement of stepping under with the inside hind, lifting the fore and stepping over wiht the inside fore are important for suppling the horse, and much more effective than just pulling his head around til his nose touches your toe, at a stand still (CA).
> 
> It's going to be really, really boring, though , doing them over and over. And, with so many people, you don't get any feedback about HOW you are doing it. and HOW you are doing it matters. Are you training the hrose to do it himself? or are you dragging him heavily, resistant, around on his forehand? That would be where some help , one on one, would be valuable. And with 30 riders, he can't do much to help.


I found it ironic that he talked about the benefits of switching things up on the 2nd day, but we didn't do anything different. He talked for about 20 minutes on how when his horse gives him the correct move, he praises them and moves on to something else. I do the same thing with my horses. When they do the correct move, we quit. Resting is their goal, and their prize for doing something correctly. Originally my horse was a bit bracey, as she has an arthritic hind hock. But she relaxed, got more flexible, and was doing it nicely. And I should have just stopped her there and walked her, because she was performing correctly and softly, and doing what I asked. But I didn't know what else we could do, so I tried walking a bit, then went back to the circles. She started to get a bit sour about doing so many of them. I'm not sure if it was because we were doing them right and she was getting frustrated, or because her hock was aching. But either way, this behavior went in waves. My friend's horse almost fell asleep, doing the same thing over and over again! I saw quite a few horses that, after a half hour of doing the same thing, their owners had to really kick them to get them to wake up. 

He did teach us how to hobble a horse (though not the beginning stages with a rope and practicing with pressure). It was a helpful 20 minute demonstration, and it broke up the monotony of the 3rd day. But during the demo he made some strange comment to organiser about a "dinner they'd had last night" where he had talked about the benefits of hobbling and that "that woman had said she wasn't into that cowboy stuff." (I'm guessing he was referring to another dinner guest.) Then he proceeded to badmouth her, and say something along the lines of, "Well, if she has problems, it'll be her own fault." It was, honestly, very unusual and out of the blue. 

I guess what I took from this experience was to never participate in a clinic unless you've audited several beforehand from that person. One woman that we sat next to during the Ranch Roping session chose to audit the clinic, and had come all the way from Wisconsin. She was disappointed in the outcome, but happy she hadn't paid to be a participant.


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## Palomine

Critter sitter said:


> Buck Said.....and he did take shots at ALL riding Disciplines not just dressage.
> I have heard from 7 people who attended that clinic and they were from many riding spectrum's. they all Loved the clinic. and yes they told me about him taking Jabs at the riders.
> 
> I really wanted to go to the Clinic but work and Family stuff got in the way.
> I would have gladly taken your place!



I'm sorry but the time he spent taking potshots at other riders and other disciplines is not what people pay for. They pay to learn. And a good point TV made about wondering if she and others would be fodder for his next clinic.

If he wants to do potshots, and make fun of people, there are plenty who would pay at least one time for him to do a stand up speech only, and he could then regale them with just how many idiots he has to put up with.

But until he takes his show on the road that way? He is robbing the people who go to the clinics to learn.

And can't imagine anyone enjoying anything where they have paid to basically hear low rating of other people either. Wonder how your friends, the 7 of them, will feel if he uses them as entertainment in the next clinic?


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## Critter sitter

what I was told he sad about dressage " and was told by a Dressage rider"

He said he would like to see people now days do it the way it was meant to be done. With one rein, not 2 . to see them do it the way the soldiers did.
She the Dressage rider under stood that it was not offensive. People get their feelings hurt WAY to easy over something so silly!.
If you did not like the Clinic I am sorry But Many did . I would take it up with Him if your That upset


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## Critter sitter

Palomine said:


> I'm sorry but the time he spent taking potshots at other riders and other disciplines is not what people pay for. They pay to learn. And a good point TV made about wondering if she and others would be fodder for his next clinic.
> 
> If he wants to do potshots, and make fun of people, there are plenty who would pay at least one time for him to do a stand up speech only, and he could then regale them with just how many idiots he has to put up with.
> 
> But until he takes his show on the road that way? He is robbing the people who go to the clinics to learn.
> 
> And can't imagine anyone enjoying anything where they have paid to basically hear low rating of other people either. Wonder how your friends, the 7 of them, will feel if he uses them as entertainment in the next clinic?


there was One girl there that is a trainer and she has been and he pointed out to Many of his clinics over this summer .. I am not sure if it was all of his clinics but many of them. hmmmm I wonder what she would have to say.


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## Corporal

gigem88 said:


> I've never been to one of his clinics, just watched some videos. While he seemed to be quite knowledgable, he definitely was not a teacher or even a decent public speaker. Some people are speakers and some doers! Sorry you had such a bad experience.


Boy, there's a LOT of this around.
I, too, am sorry that you wasted your money.


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## Farmchic

I'm sorry to hear you were disappointed, BUT let's try to look for the silver lining. 

1. You always wanted to go to one of his clinics, now you don't have to dream about going cause you did it!

2. You got to spend time with your horse and your friends.

3. You probably met new friends.

4. You learned how to make sacrifices to get something you want. 

5. You horse got to be in a new environment and it sounds like he did very well. Something you can not simulate at home.

6. You gained experience and I'm sure learned something new even if it wasn't what you expected.

Now, those are the ones that I can come up with and I don't know you or your horse  I'm sure you could add to the list.

When I was first getting into horses I submersed myself in everything and anything horsey and still do somewhat just make It more specific to the breed I have now. A new experience for your and your horse is never a bad thing. I spent a week camping on the show grounds to watch the Friesian Nationals one year, now I own Paso Finos. I don't regret the time I spent watching the Friesian Nationals at all. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is yeah, it sucks that it was not what you anticipated but I'm sure it wasn't all bad if you really try to see the good things that came out of it. Not everyone is going to mesh with all trainers and there are few I could listen to for 3 days straight!! But we can learn at least something from everyone. 

JMO :wink:


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## deserthorsewoman

I had to go and read up on his website about the clinics.
It says, as a requirement, bring headstall, snaffle, and MECATE TYPE REINS. And states that, if you're new to that set up, they'll help you rig it.

For the rope halters under the headstall, it states Foundation Horsemanship is half groundwork, half under saddle, so halter wasn't needed for Horsemanship 1

Horsemanship 1 is mainly for green horse and green rider. This might explain the rather simple, but very important exercises. 

What I gather from that is, reading educates. 

His website also encourages people to send him a personal letter, address is given.
I would do that if I was so frustrated and disappointed.

As for his behavior in general, I completely understand the man. I can imagine how many " yeah, but" s he has to listen to. Not saying it is right, what he supposedly did and said, but I really understand it. I quit giving lessons a long time ago because of the " yeah, buts" and folks who get their feelings hurt when told the truth. I have no patience for that. I guess that comes with age lol.
Oh, one more thing, horses usually react completely different in a clinic type setting. 

So, he isn't politically correct, oh well. Speaks for him, I think.

I'm sorry that it was a bad experience for you, OP.


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## TurkishVan

Critter sitter said:


> what I was told he sad about dressage " and was told by a Dressage rider"
> 
> He said he would like to see people now days do it the way it was meant to be done. With one rein, not 2 . to see them do it the way the soldiers did.
> She the Dressage rider under stood that it was not offensive. People get their feelings hurt WAY to easy over something so silly!.
> If you did not like the Clinic I am sorry But Many did . I would take it up with Him if your That upset


What I failed to say is that I was riding dressage also. I was a bit irritated by the comment (I mostly worried that it was angled towards me). I hear bad things about western riders all the time from the dressage side, and didn't expect to get a rebuttle from a top notch western rider. He has nothing to prove, so why pick the fight? And one other person riding dressage DID get very offended. But when you pay $700 + trailering, gas, food, stalls, etc., you don't expect to get crapped on because of the discipline that you choose to ride. It was a stupid thing to say, and he shouldn't have said it. Regardless of how sensitive everyone was or wasn't, he shouldn't have said it. 



Critter sitter said:


> Buck Said.....and he did take shots at ALL riding Disciplines not just dressage.
> I have heard from 7 people who attended that clinic and they were from many riding spectrum's. they all Loved the clinic. and yes they told me about him taking Jabs at the riders.
> 
> I really wanted to go to the Clinic but work and Family stuff got in the way.
> I would have gladly taken your place!


Critter, I would have gladly given you the place!
I didn't hear Buck go after western riders at all. He went after people that couldn't ride or had no interest in riding right, and he did specifically state the line about "snobby dressage riders." Speaking from experience, I've met an equal number of rude people in both disciplines! (I ride western pleasure and dressage.)

We did question some of the other participants, to see how they felt about the clinic. They all blamed his comments on his "black past", and said he didn't mean them. Some of the people that we talked to enjoyed the clinic, others did not. While I wasn't expecting a miraculous turnaround (i.e., "In just FOUR DAYS you'll learn how to BE ONE with your HORSE!"), I did expect to learn more. My friends and I talked about it, and we feel like Buck really aimed his teaching at the beginner-beginners. We literally felt like everything he had to say was catered towards people that had gone out and bought a horse the week before, and brought it to the clinic to ride for the first time.
To someone with no instruction, it might have been a lot of information. For me, it was very, very little. For my friends, who never take lessons but who have ridden for a long time, it was still very little. 

What you or I think of the clinic are our own opinions, and no one else's. I'm just relating how disappointed I was with the whole experience. I had imagined myself getting something out of the clinic, and I really didn't. I just want to give others the advice that they should AUDIT before participating.


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## TurkishVan

deserthorsewoman said:


> I had to go and read up on his website about the clinics.
> It says, as a requirement, bring headstall, snaffle, and MECATE TYPE REINS. And states that, if you're new to that set up, they'll help you rig it.
> 
> For the rope halters under the headstall, it states Foundation Horsemanship is half groundwork, half under saddle, so halter wasn't needed for Horsemanship 1
> 
> Horsemanship 1 is mainly for green horse and green rider. This might explain the rather simple, but very important exercises.
> 
> What I gather from that is, reading educates.
> 
> His website also encourages people to send him a personal letter, address is given.
> I would do that if I was so frustrated and disappointed.
> 
> As for his behavior in general, I completely understand the man. I can imagine how many " yeah, but" s he has to listen to. Not saying it is right, what he supposedly did and said, but I really understand it. I quit giving lessons a long time ago because of the " yeah, buts" and folks who get their feelings hurt when told the truth. I have no patience for that. I guess that comes with age lol.
> Oh, one more thing, horses usually react completely different in a clinic type setting.
> 
> So, he isn't politically correct, oh well. Speaks for him, I think.
> 
> I'm sorry that it was a bad experience for you, OP.


We actually called to talk about the reins, because we wanted to know more about them too, and the organiser talked to him and confirmed that they weren't needed if it was too much trouble. We couldn't find a pair anywhere nearby, and they were super expensive. Plus, when I thought about it, I'm going to be riding my horse in my tack most of the time. I won't ride with mecate reins because they don't serve my discipline. So why not learn with my tack? I did have a snaffle bit- we all did. But we all had regular style leather or cloth reins. Other people did too. And we were all told by Kip to have a halter and 12 foot lead rope handy, because we'd likely do groundwork first. Other participants that had done his clinics before said they usually do groundwork in Horsemanship 1. This was the first time that they hadn't. So yes, everyone read the website. When you pay that much money for a clinic, why wouldn't you? But they had said they wouldn't be following those rules, so I can see why there was confusion. 

Everyone at the clinic was very nice, and very eager to learn. The only "yeah but" that I heard was from a woman who stated she had to work 10 hours a day, and didn't get home until late. She asked how her training would progress if she couldn't work with her horse each day. That was the only one. No excuses were made.


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## deserthorsewoman

TurkishVan said:


> We actually called to talk about the reins, because we wanted to know more about them too, and organiser talked to him and confirmed that they weren't needed if it was too much trouble. We couldn't find a pair anywhere nearby, and they were super expensive. Plus, when I thought about it, I'm going to be riding my horse in my tack most of the time. I won't ride with mecate reins because they don't serve my discipline. So why not learn with my tack? I did have a snaffle bit- we all did. But we all had regular style leather or cloth reins. Other people did too. And we were all told by the guy to have a halter and 12 foot lead rope handy, because we'd likely do groundwork first. Other participants that had done his clinics before said they usually do groundwork in Horsemanship 1. This was the first time that they hadn't. So yes, everyone read the website. When you pay that much money for a clinic, why wouldn't you? But they had said they wouldn't be following those rules, so I can see why there was confusion.
> 
> Everyone at the clinic was very nice, and very eager to learn. The only "yeah but" that I heard was from a woman who stated she had to work 10 hours a day, and didn't get home until late. She asked how her training would progress if she couldn't work with her horse each day. That was the only one. No excuses were made.


I didn't say it was your course with the yeah but's. I can imagine how many of that kind he has to deal with in general which can cause his " behavior". The attitude builds up over time. 
I learned one can never please everybody. Simple fact. 
Like I said, I'm really sorry you had this bad experience, but try to see the good points, too;-)


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## TurkishVan

deserthorsewoman said:


> I didn't say it was your course with the yeah but's. I can imagine how many of that kind he has to deal with in general which can cause his " behavior". The attitude builds up over time.
> I learned one can never please everybody. Simple fact.
> Like I said, I'm really sorry you had this bad experience, but try to see the good points, too;-)


Sorry, I misunderstood! There really wasn't any "batting of the eyelashes" or whining at this clinic. Quite a few mature horse people, really. 
The bit about hobbling was informative, which was nice. I'm just trying to encourage people to audit before participating. I looked up all sorts of reviews before I decided to jump in fully, and only found the strawberries and rainbows stuff. I just want people to realize what it may be like if they attend, and to be prepared. I sure wasn't! It was a real shock to the system!


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## deserthorsewoman

I can imagine! Website also says to start out with his groundwork DVD. That is probably meant to give an idea about his philosophy with horses. I have the bridle horse DVD set. He talks really in depth about the why's and how's of the exercises. But he can't make buying them a requirement before attending a clinic, can he. 
If I was you, I would indeed write him a letter and explain my point of view. I'd be really interested if you'd get a response;-)


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## Blossom in Srping

He is coming to a place near us on the 13th. We are going to just audit.


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## 1horse2many

I agree with most of what you said. Buck is a brilliant hand with a horse but it would appear he has lost touch with his roots. I know a lot of ranchers and his kind of humor wouldn't go over well at all. In most circles to talk ill of others is viewed as low rent. It sounds as if he's been around the monied elite a couple of days too long. Those jokes at the expense of others make him look bad but no one apparently wants to tell him. Instead his disciples imitate his behavior to the point of a p*****g match. Grace and kindness are free for the taking Mr. Brannaman. They buy you long friendships, trust, and respect. I certainly hope you find your way home.


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## LouieThePalomino

Wow sorry he was so rude! I never really liked him actually, I watched his movie and even there he came off a bit snobby and that everything he knows/does is right. And the snobby comments are just plain uncalled for and people blaming it on his past is rediculous. People went there to learn not hear sob stories and listen to rude comments.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## apachiedragon

To put it bluntly, he doesn't care anymore. I have a friend who has gone to many of his (and many others) clinics over the years, and put it to me this way. Ever since his movie came out, he has droves of people that will pay whatever money he asks just so they can brag about riding in one of his clinics. He doesn't have to be personable, or even a good teacher. He just has to show up. People will still pay it, because of his fame. She has told me that some of his more upper level clinics are better, but the beginner level stuff for him is just money in his pocket. He flat doesn't care.


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## Celeste

I could take the $700 you spent on your clinic and use it to send my horse to a really good trainer for a few weeks. I am sure that she would learn something new and then the two of us together would be a better team. Or I could take 10 very expensive private lessons for myself. Or for me and my horse. I think that even if it was good, it was over-priced.


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## COWCHICK77

That is a bummer TV since you made some sacrifices so you could afford to go. That sucks, I would be ****ed too for that amount of money. ($700= about 10 lessons with a cow horse trainer with a cattle charge)

I like BB, he's a good horseman, but I have admitted before on this forum before that when I had bouts of insomnia I would watch his videos so I could fall asleep..LOL.
Not saying that the information wasn't important it just put me to sleep. 

I watched some videos of some Ray Hunt clinics and he was the same way, very simple and vague. He gave direction but not the answers. It was up to the rider to figure it out then help the horse find the right answer.

Honestly, even though I think BB is a good horseman I probably wouldn't pay for a clinic other than to audit for basic horsemanship. Your not going to get anything magical or earth shaking at that point. I don't think any clinician is going to teach me something that no other decent trainer is going to teach at that level.

Again, sorry that you had a bum trip


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## Northern

Anyone who directs a rider to put his horse through an exercise for hours/days, when the horse is silently screaming that he's BORED, FRUSTRATED, & going NUTS with it, isn't a true horseman. 

On top of that, the riders lost MORE respect from their horses by resorting to KICKING them into doing the exercises! BB allowed all of that meltdown, if OP is to be believed: unbelievably unfair to the horses.

Imo, every clinic participant who bored his horse to tears, then gave her pain to keep her doing the exercises, lost major points with his horse.

Did anyone learn this lesson from the poor horses?


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## SorrelHorse

I'm sorry you had this experience.

I, honestly, have never liked Buck. I'll just leave it at that.

It's frustrating to me that he did that, and behaved in that way. He sounds like an old cutting horse trainer I took an all day clinic from awhile back - Repetitive, no help, snide comments, and a total waste of money.


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## tinyliny

It is a major drawback of having the teaching in the format of a "clinic". you must keep at the excersize for much longer than you should , so that all the riders have the necessary time to get it right. IN theory, at least.

I auditted a Buck clinic a couple of years ago. I learned a lot from his "ramblings". But, it was very crowded and I am glad I did not spend a lot of money to participate. The clinic is too large for any one person to learn a lot.


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## AnalisaParalyzer

Palomine said:


> And if you wanted to hear CHEAP SHOTS????
> 
> You can go to you know who's youtube videos for FREE!!!!


LOL not to be too off topic, but im a harry potter fan, and laughed my lil nerd butt off at the "you know who" reference. we have our own "dark lord" teehee

im sorry you were disappointed... ill be going to a clinic in vero beach next week, lots of different things going on, and im not sure who the main attraction is yet, but i really hope im not wasting a weekend....

ive only seen some of bucks work, i can imagine him being too big for his britches in person. i agree with writing to his handlers and giving them what for.


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## Muppetgirl

I always liked this:


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## deserthorsewoman

Muppetgirl said:


> I always liked this:
> 
> View attachment 275169


^^^THIS is so true, Muppet. In my case, all the ones who inspired me are all dead........


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## Critter sitter

your right it is our own opinions. I showed your review to My Trainer friend who was there all 4 days and he did say that it seemed Buck didn't move on to other things because the riders were not getting what he was going through. So if you were "getting it" and didn't get to move onto better things I am sorry. It seems you maybe only heard the Snobby Dressage comments because they were aimed at your "group" and were seeing red after that even though he stated Not to fret he would pick apart all riding styles before done Maybe you didn't hear the others? I know My Dressage Friend who was there heard them and so did the trainers.. and guess what .. they were not offended because they were there to learn and listen. And they brought back to me what they learned. 
I am surprised you didn't say anything about the Bit comments he made?


TurkishVan said:


> What I failed to say is that I was riding dressage also. I was a bit irritated by the comment (I mostly worried that it was angled towards me). I hear bad things about western riders all the time from the dressage side, and didn't expect to get a rebuttle from a top notch western rider. He has nothing to prove, so why pick the fight? And one other person riding dressage DID get very offended. But when you pay $700 + trailering, gas, food, stalls, etc., you don't expect to get crapped on because of the discipline that you choose to ride. It was a stupid thing to say, and he shouldn't have said it. Regardless of how sensitive everyone was or wasn't, he shouldn't have said it.
> 
> 
> 
> Critter, I would have gladly given you the place!
> I didn't hear Buck go after western riders at all. He went after people that couldn't ride or had no interest in riding right, and he did specifically state the line about "snobby dressage riders." Speaking from experience, I've met an equal number of rude people in both disciplines! (I ride western pleasure and dressage.)
> 
> We did question some of the other participants, to see how they felt about the clinic. They all blamed his comments on his "black past", and said he didn't mean them. Some of the people that we talked to enjoyed the clinic, others did not. While I wasn't expecting a miraculous turnaround (i.e., "In just FOUR DAYS you'll learn how to BE ONE with your HORSE!"), I did expect to learn more. My friends and I talked about it, and we feel like Buck really aimed his teaching at the beginner-beginners. We literally felt like everything he had to say was catered towards people that had gone out and bought a horse the week before, and brought it to the clinic to ride for the first time.
> To someone with no instruction, it might have been a lot of information. For me, it was very, very little. For my friends, who never take lessons but who have ridden for a long time, it was still very little.
> 
> What you or I think of the clinic are our own opinions, and no one else's. I'm just relating how disappointed I was with the whole experience. I had imagined myself getting something out of the clinic, and I really didn't. I just want to give others the advice that they should AUDIT before participating.


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## Critter sitter

sounds like you were not prepaired for his clinic If it required those things? and as for the reins they are not expensive and I found a pair at Bronco Billys for pretty cheap.


TurkishVan said:


> We actually called to talk about the reins, because we wanted to know more about them too, and Kip talked to him and confirmed that they weren't needed if it was too much trouble. We couldn't find a pair anywhere nearby, and they were super expensive. Plus, when I thought about it, I'm going to be riding my horse in my tack most of the time. I won't ride with mecate reins because they don't serve my discipline. So why not learn with my tack? I did have a snaffle bit- we all did. But we all had regular style leather or cloth reins. Other people did too. And we were all told by Kip to have a halter and 12 foot lead rope handy, because we'd likely do groundwork first. Other participants that had done his clinics before said they usually do groundwork in Horsemanship 1. This was the first time that they hadn't. So yes, everyone read the website. When you pay that much money for a clinic, why wouldn't you? But they had said they wouldn't be following those rules, so I can see why there was confusion.
> 
> Everyone at the clinic was very nice, and very eager to learn. The only "yeah but" that I heard was from a woman who stated she had to work 10 hours a day, and didn't get home until late. She asked how her training would progress if she couldn't work with her horse each day. That was the only one. No excuses were made.


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## deserthorsewoman

Critter sitter said:


> your right it is our own opinions. I showed your review to My Trainer friend who was there all 4 days and he did say that it seemed Buck didn't move on to other things because the riders were not getting what he was going through. So if you were "getting it" and didn't get to move onto better things I am sorry. It seems you maybe only heard the Snobby Dressage comments because they were aimed at your "group" and were seeing red after that even though he stated Not to fret he would pick apart all riding styles before done Maybe you didn't hear the others? I know My Dressage Friend who was there heard them and so did the trainers.. and guess what .. they were not offended because they were there to learn and listen. And they brought back to me what they learned.
> I am surprised you didn't say anything about the Bit comments he made?


Im glad we get to hear a second opinion on that particular clinic. Thanks, CS.
There are always two sides to a coin( German proverb);-)


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## 1horse2many

Critter Sitter, I was also at that clinic and for the life of me can't figure out why more help wasn't offered. At any given time Kip Fladland was in the arena (he teaches BB methods) and a very capable young man who was BB's assistant was also there. The young man spent his downtime working with a young horse he had apparently brought along but Mr. Fladland was usually just parked off to the side. Sure would have been nice to have gotten some feedback (that being the purpose of our expensive purchase!) I saw too much confusion and uncertainty on the faces of other riders to ever believe they came out of there with full certainty of what was required of them. If I had to do it over again I probably would have risked p*****g off Mr. brannaman by making him nail down what we needed to improve on. Don't dare tell me he had "too many riders"! He sets the limit. If he can't do the job he shouldn't be taking our hard earned cash.


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## TurkishVan

1horse2many said:


> Critter Sitter, I was also at that clinic and for the life of me can't figure out why more help wasn't offered. At any given time Kip Fladland was in the arena (he teaches BB methods) and a very capable young man who was BB's assistant was also there. The young man spent his downtime working with a young horse he had apparently brought along but Mr. Fladland was usually just parked off to the side. Sure would have been nice to have gotten some feedback (that being the purpose of our expensive purchase!) I saw too much confusion and uncertainty on the faces of other riders to ever believe they came out of there with full certainty of what was required of them. If I had to do it over again I probably would have risked p*****g off Mr. brannaman by making him nail down what we needed to improve on. Don't dare tell me he had "too many riders"! He sets the limit. If he can't do the job he shouldn't be taking our hard earned cash.


 
Thanks for chiming in, 1horse2many. Please don't take offense if I don't give you a description of myself or my horse (which is not the one in my profile picture). I was sort of hoping I was the only one with these opinions, but apparently not. 

Critter, I didn't see red. I can assure you that. Being a student, I've had to endure verbal abuse before. My philosophy is that you "kill 'em with kindness!" So I don't get too worked up about things like that. As I stated before, the comments were made to the side, but they were put out there very strongly nonetheless. I was there to learn as well. But learn to ride, not to insult.


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## Northern

Subjective opinions: Not enough info, too high of a charge, snide comments on dressage/whatever, no wheelbarrows, too many students to effectively teach, lack of preparation on the part of humans, etc etc etc.

NOT a matter of opinion: The horses were being BORED, FRUSTRATED, SOURED to their humans, who then proceeded to KICK them to MAKE them continue, destroying the relationships with their humans all the MORE!

THIS is the real lesson of the whole event.


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## Beling

I'm sorry for your experience.

I audited a clinic, and it was pretty good; but even then I could see that Buck is much better with the Problem Horse than with nice horses, or people for whom Alpha is not so much admired.


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## thesilverspear

Having been to clinics/workshops for both horses and music (but not any of Buck's), I always come away with a sense of disconnection between teacher and student. The teacher sees these students for a few days and then will never see them again. He/she will travel on to the next clinic the following week and see a different group of students for a few days who he/she will never see again. Then the next week, do the same thing, ad infinitum. It takes a special sort of person, someone who has a real passion for teaching and who is very good at reading and communicating with people, to do this as a career and not become jaded, cynical, and eventually stop caring about their students and the work they do with them. They see hundreds of people each year, doubtlessly with similar problems. I have heard Mark Rashid and his student, Kathleen Lindley, are very very good. Mark's passion for teaching and learning comes through in his books. But I suspect a lot get very jaded. I probably would. I love teaching, but I don't think I have the equanimity to manage a heavy travel schedule and trying to teach snapshots of hundreds of people who I will never forge a connection with. 

Although I've heard it many times, I have never thought "he cares about the horses, not people" to be a good excuse for instructors/trainers behaving badly towards their students. Yes, I have had that trainer, and used that as an excuse to write off her behaviour, until I got older and wise and concluded that she was just an ****. It's about people as much as it is about horses. It does not matter how good a horseman/woman *you* are. If you can't communicate effectively with the owner of the horse, their ability to handle the horse and the horse's training won't improve.


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## LiveAndLetLive

I believe kewpalace summed Buck's, Ray's, the Dorrance brother's horsemanship style perfectly in another thread titled Buck Brannaman:
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-trainers/buck-brannaman-567882/

These are horsemen first and clinicians second. Certainly this type of horsemanship isn't for everyone, to each his own, but complaining after the fact isn't constructive. 

Be direct. We all have to take responsibility for our lives, speak up for ourselves, voice our concerns at the time, directly to the person we're in disagreement with. Call or write him, he will respond even now, two years later. You matter, your experience matters but do resolve things with him; he cares.

Tell him your story, express your disappointment and share the outcome here.

Thank you for sharing your experience with us.


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## alysia

Thank you for your honest discussion of your experience at that clinic. I would be incredibly disappointed myself had that happened. I would be offended if I had paid money and got rude comments like some of those there did. We did in fact, adopt a rescue horse and we need a lot of help training her! She just isn't like the three other horses I have had in my life. 

Perhaps you can ask for a credit to attend another clinic. It sounds like you deserve that.


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## Conejajo

*Buck Brannaman clinic*



TurkishVan said:


> I really didn't want to put this in the "Horse Training" section, as I'm more disappointed in a person here.
> 
> So my friends and I saved up to attend a Buck Brannaman clinic this summer. We chose to attend the clinic this last weekend at Equestrian Center. I'd been reading about Ray Hunt's methods and riding for months, and my friends had been preparing as well. One friend was in the Ranch Roping session, so he roped endlessly. We were all geared for a good time, and anxious to see how our skills would be put to the test. None of us really had the money to attend, but we scrimped and saved, and decided to split frozen dinners instead of cooking decent meals, just to attend this clinic. We were all very serious about this clinic, so we didn't goof around or act stupid. We hung on his every word, and tried our hardest at the exercises he assigned.
> 
> So Day 1: We arrive at the Equestrian Center. The stalls are more like a sale barn- just cattle panels making a square stall. No wheelbarrows for transporting manure, just muck buckets that you have to drag. Irritating, but we made do.
> My friend and I each decided to take the Horsemanship 1 session, thinking that's where everyone has to start. We get our horses into the arena, and the first 45 minutes is Buck talking to us about molding a good bridle horse. After that, we are sent around the arena to do small serpentines and circles, to practice pivoting the horse on his back and front feet only. We do this for the next hour and a half. Then we quit and Buck talks and takes questions. We did not do ANYTHING else that first day.
> During the activities, Buck talks about past clinic participants, and gets really rude. He talked about asking one woman "where her belly button was" (I'm assuming in relation to her pelvis posture), and the crowd laughed when she, not quite understanding, pointed to her belly button. A few other participants were asking about the mecate reins that he wanted everyone to use, and he looked at them and said they'd be laughed out of any arena he and his friends were in, because they had rope halters under their bridles. (We talked to them later, and they said they expected there to be quite a bit of groundwork, which was the reason for the halters.) Buck also talked down about dressage and dressage riders, describing them as snobby. He had about 5-6 participants riding in dressage saddles, so I didn't think it was a wise choice.
> 
> Day 2: Buck spends the first 45 minutes talking. We do small serpentines and small circles again. Practice pivoting on back feet, practice pivoting on front feet. Same thing as Day 1. Most people don't seem to be struggling with it, and by this time my horse was about ready to kill me, as she had been doing it right on Day 1, and there was no variation in the tasks assigned. All of this is done walking. We do no trotting whatsoever in the entire 4 days.
> Today Buck makes a few rude comments, one about people in his California clinics that come up and say to him, "Buck, I've got a rescue horse..." He said that then he has to "save the rescue from the rescuer" and went on to say that "feeding and watering a horse isn't enough. They aren't content with just that." I understand that some people make excuses for their horses, but what's wrong with people caring for them if it makes them feel good? And , the guy who arranged the clinic (in reality, he just took the checks; he didn't do much else), was by the fence when I went by him and he laughed and said to a guy next to him, "Hear how quiet it is?" It was just rude. Like my friend said, it was a pretty stupid remark for Buck to make, considering he himself is a "rescue."
> 
> Day 3: Talking for 45 minutes. Same serpentines and small circles. He added backing to the list, to try to get people to develop a "soft feel." It mixed it up a bit more, but not much. Buck was nicer, and nothing nasty was said. Spent the last 45 minutes answering questions or just telling stories.
> 
> Day 4: Talking for 45 minutes at first. Small serpentines and small circles, and turning while backing. Trying to develop a soft feel. Buck was still nicer, but I expected stuff to come together on the last day. We ended the session about 15 minutes early, with the last 30 minutes being devoted to him advertising a "Legacy of Legends" gathering in Las Vegas.
> 
> 
> 
> All in all, we were very, very disappointed in the clinic. When I left for this clinic, I literally had $50 in my bank account. I had to withdrawl $200 from my emergency fund bank account (of $600) just to have money for meals. I cried on the 2nd day because I felt so, so cheated. I could have used that money for vet bills, HAY, my car... And I just wasted it.
> I couldn't believe that we didn't accomplish more at this clinic. What Buck taught me in 4 days (12 hours of riding), could have been taught by my current riding instructor in 1 hour of instruction (at $40/hr). In fact, I knew everything that we were doing in the clinic. I'd covered it millenia ago, and even my friend, who didn't take lessons but who'd ridden her whole life, was disappointed. My guy friend wasn't unhappy with the roping session, as they got to practice on live cattle. I wish I would have done that instead. I overheard about one participant that didn't have a lively horse, asking what he thought the problem was. Kip went on and on about how he'd seen horses that were scared of cattle, and that was definitely the problem. He got p***y with the people when they tried to kindly object. Actually, that horse was as cool as a cucumber when a cow whizzed by him- he just seemed bored, as most of them were standing around all the time.
> 
> One mother and her son were participating, but they left a day early. The little boy was probably 7, and he was an excellent rider. No idea why they left. A dressage rider across from us was p.o.'ed about the rude comments towards those in dressage. I'd ridden around her quite a bit, and saw that her horse was well-trained, and relaxed. She wasn't hanging off his mouth by any means. No one was, actually.
> 
> I just don't know what to think.... How disappointing. We went for a fun time, and it was just pure torture. All of the horses there were reasonably well-trained (no dangerous horses), and no one got injured, or even close to it. But Buck kept stating that "We'd never have a horse as broke as his." I wanted to say, "Well, probably not, but can't we try? What's wrong with trying? Why shoot us down when we haven't begun to try yet?" It just seemed like he always wanted to prove something. And we kept asking ourselves, "So, are we going to be the entertainment for the next clinic?"
> 
> I just don't know what to think anymore... :-(


So sorry You did not enjoy the clinic. The small circles and serpentine are necessary for you to have soft control of your horse at more advanced moves, such as trotting..... everything he does I see a specific building plan for a bridle horse. Of course you don't have to make a bridle horse. A nice snaffle bit horse is awesome. It's kind of hard to learn if you are not open to understanding what the teacher is trying to say..... oh why do I say that? Because those were your only comments with no comments on any understanding obtained, which is what he was trying to impart with the talking.... questions are a good way to clarify and make sure you get your money's worth, rather than just criticize something you don't understand. But then again, maybe developing a partnership and dialogue with your horse isn't something you are interested in or have already mastered..... attending my third clinic now. It has been a journey and required some effort on my part to develop a true understanding of the message he is trying send. I have gotten the most out of this clinic than the other three. In no small part because I have done my homework and prepared myself for it. Mostly by opening my mind and being prepared to listen and apply and ask questions when I don't understand. Here's hoping you safe and happy riding.


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## jaydee

Mod Note
Please be aware that this is a very old thread (2013) and the OP might not be active here any more


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## Primalwoman

*did a google search about Buck Brannaman*

I realize this thread is old. I received dvd set of Buck Brannaman and started watching by first watching the documentary called Buck. I could tell there was 'attitude' there. And while I am sure I can learn tips and tricks from the clinic dvd set, I have to say that this guy is a .......

I did a google search to see if I could see reviews about him and found others feel the same.


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## Joel Reiter

The OP may be long gone, but this thread is a good cautionary tale about attending an expensive clinic. Before you spend your money, it would be worth personally contacting someone who has been there and asking exactly what they did. Or auditing, as has been suggested.

Looking at reactions from both sides of this thread, I still see three issues that make this clinic sound like a disaster:


Too much time talking instead of riding
Never getting out of a walk
Not enough feedback while doing exercises
My reaction is perhaps colored by the fact that of more than a dozen clinicians that I have either seen personally or read their books or both, Brannaman would be the least likely to offer a clinic that would interest me.

If it were me, and I got what I was looking for otherwise, I wouldn't pay any attention to perceived rudeness or insults. If you want someone who will be kind to you, I suggest you stick with Richard Winters or Stacy Westfall or Mark Rashid.

If your priority is time on horseback and moving faster than a walk, I'd suggest you go with Clinton Anderson. He won't be nice to you but he knows how to teach.


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## AnitaAnne

Joel Reiter said:


> The OP may be long gone, but this thread is a good cautionary tale about attending an expensive clinic. Before you spend your money, it would be worth personally contacting someone who has been there and asking exactly what they did. Or auditing, as has been suggested.
> 
> Looking at reactions from both sides of this thread, I still see three issues that make this clinic sound like a disaster:
> 
> 
> Too much time talking instead of riding
> Never getting out of a walk
> Not enough feedback while doing exercises
> My reaction is perhaps colored by the fact that of more than a dozen clinicians that I have either seen personally or read their books or both, Brannaman would be the least likely to offer a clinic that would interest me.
> 
> .


Totally agree with this part of your statement. Especially the AUDIT BEFORE PARTICIPATE RULE

IMO it is most important when selecting a clinician to determine if what they are promoting is what you want to do with your horse. 

Some clinics I have audited purely out of curiosity, especially if it is something new and of reasonable cost. 

The only time I rode in a clinic before auditing was when I went with a friend, and I left a day early (3-day clinic) because I was so disgusted with the clinician. I had already wasted my money, I was not about to waste any more of my time too :evil: 

I won't mention his name, just to say I too was stuck walking for two days and listening to insults. He was/is a self-proclaimed "master" of dressage. I consider him a master of BS. 

Will add one more note of caution; stay away from any Clinician that won't let you video tape your ride.


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## tinyliny

Joel Reiter said:


> The OP may be long gone, but this thread is a good cautionary tale about attending an expensive clinic. Before you spend your money, it would be worth personally contacting someone who has been there and asking exactly what they did. Or auditing, as has been suggested.
> 
> Looking at reactions from both sides of this thread, I still see three issues that make this clinic sound like a disaster:
> 
> 
> Too much time talking instead of riding
> Never getting out of a walk
> Not enough feedback while doing exercises
> My reaction is perhaps colored by the fact that of more than a dozen clinicians that I have either seen personally or read their books or both, Brannaman would be the least likely to offer a clinic that would interest me.
> 
> If it were me, and I got what I was looking for otherwise, I wouldn't pay any attention to perceived rudeness or insults. If you want someone who will be kind to you, I suggest you stick with *Richard Winters or Stacy Westfall or Mark Rashid.
> *
> If your priority is time on horseback and moving faster than a walk, I'd suggest you go with *Clinton Anderson*. He won't be nice to you but he knows how to teach.





I find it interesting that you lump these diverse persons , including Buck , into ONE category. To me, the things you will learn, and the philosophy that is presented, and the culture of the group you will experience, is SOOOO different from each of these names that I do not think they should be so easily placed in one pile to choose from.


To me, Clinton Anderson is as far from Mark Rashid as one can imagine.
There is a gulf between them in terms of how they view the horse. In terms of how much you'll walk or trot or lope in a clinic, . . .well . . they might be similar, but I would never select and pay for a clinic based on that.


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## Joel Reiter

tinyliny said:


> To me, Clinton Anderson is as far from Mark Rashid as one can imagine.


I have spent many hours watching both of them in person. I have Clinton Anderson's Colt Starting kit and I have many of Mark Rashid's books. To my mind their similarities are a hundred times greater than their differences. Rashid does the same things as Clinton Anderson, only much slower and with greater patience.


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## CrossCountry

I paid to be an intern on a ranch that is very closely related to Buck Brannaman and it was absolutely horrendous. Circles, circles, circles not much else in the day - which made the horses so upset. I was given horses that wouldn't move no matter how much you asked them to - just to make me look like an idiot. All other ways of riding were criticized, and people were cruelly joked about behind their backs. 


I'm not surprised his clinics are the same way. I'm sorry you got cheated.


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## Cjmason9

Iâ€™m taking his Horsemanship 1 clinic now, itâ€™s 3 days. Similar in. Subject matter. Sounds like those who were disappointed shouldnâ€™t have been in this clinic as it too basic for them . Iâ€™m an ok rider and I have a young four year old mare. This clinic is exactly what I needed. People need to do more research when they pick clinics and clinicians. Itâ€™s 2019 and he must have softened his approach. Heâ€™s very helpful to anyone that needs it. I saw in the past he was hurtful in comments about certain things, the only thing he said I thought was derogatory was why anyone would have more than one or two dogs, and heâ€™d rather hear a baby cry at the arena than dogs barking. Iâ€™ve really enjoyed the clinic itâ€™s helped me immensely, do your research before signing up for a clinic


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## loosie

EmilyJoy said:


> ^^Check out Clinton Anderson (You Tube) He's got a lot of good stuff, and he is a very good people teacher.


...& if you're already desensitised to rude & pompous... :Angel:


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## loosie

Palomine said:


> Honestly, I would write and tell his agent how disappointed you were, how humiliated you felt when he put people down, and how bad it made him look to disparage the dressage people when one was there, and how you did NOT pay to hear anecdotes about his past morons he had worked with.


Yes, absolutely! 



> I can only say he has knocked CA down from the number 1 spot.


Hahaha!


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## horselovinguy

*Just a mod note that this thread originated in 2013....so some years ago.*
Adding a current critique is always nice, but those who make comment or question...
You might not have a response since some members are not in attendance anymore.
:runninghorse2:...


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## loosie

1horse2many said:


> Those jokes at the expense of others make him look bad but no one apparently wants to tell him.


That's what I find with many 'gurus' - if they do do something 'low', people ***** about them, but no one tells them - and sometimes they have no idea about the way they come across.

Bit different, but... I've always had a rather sarcastic sense of humour. I've learned, especially on forums over the years that it often doesn't come across in the way it's intended. But I didn't just innately know I was being offensive & not care, I had to be told.


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## charrorider

I can't remember if it was here, or some other forum, but someone had similar complaints about a Clinton Anderson clinic she had attended.


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