# I'm at my wits end!



## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

How have her feet gotten proper care in 7 years if her feet can't be picked up? :?


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

Have you been able to cinch it up all the way yet? I would let her _"buck it out"_ in a roundpen.

*edit* I re-read and it appears that she needs other things "fixed" before the saddle training comes in. I would go back to basic respect on the ground.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

RodeoLoco said:


> At one day old, the vet ( who was supremely scared of equines) put the nose twitch on her. 1 DAY OLD. After this, she started to develop bad habits, like crowding, biting, headbutting and kicking.



This is the problem, in my opinion - and not for the reasons you think. You are making excuses for your horse, feeling sorry for it, and so allowing these things to happen, well because it is understandable. 

It is not acceptable, no matter what. And you need to be assertive and make it stop.


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## Dusty1228 (Dec 2, 2010)

That is the EXACT same thing that my Dodo Bird was doing to me! I was like CRAP! I'm stuck between a leg swingin at me and those giant teeth. It was like I was dealing with two totally different horses within a matter of seconds!
But, we got it nipped with two butt tons of grooming, desensitizing to the girth strap itself, which I originally thought was the problem and a little poof of air from a bottle toward his nose every time he started his BS.
The scariest thing was not giving in and moving my feet. I had to practice aLOT of breathing and make sure I was centered where he couldn't get me.
I tried numerous things, though, that worked well with other horses.
When he would lash out, I would slap a piece of leather against my leg to make a loud noise. I tried biting him back. I tried stomping my foot each time. These things DID work, just not for him.
My problem personally, was a respect issue, nothing more, so if that's what you're dealing with, I agree 100% with the others who have posted.
Good Luck!!!


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## RodeoLoco (Mar 11, 2011)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> How have her feet gotten proper care in 7 years if her feet can't be picked up? :?


She has never needed her feet done. She has went shoeless and has never been trimmed. I think this is because of the 24 hour pasture in the summer, witch has tonnes of different terrains.


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## RodeoLoco (Mar 11, 2011)

lacyloo said:


> Have you been able to cinch it up all the way yet? I would let her _"buck it out"_ in a roundpen.
> 
> *edit* I re-read and it appears that she needs other things "fixed" before the saddle training comes in. I would go back to basic respect on the ground.


She does have respect on the ground. She leads well, and I do not need to lunge her.


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## RodeoLoco (Mar 11, 2011)

AlexS said:


> This is the problem, in my opinion - and not for the reasons you think. You are making excuses for your horse, feeling sorry for it, and so allowing these things to happen, well because it is understandable.
> 
> It is not acceptable, no matter what. And you need to be assertive and make it stop.


I still give her proper discipline. I take no pity on her now. I do not feel sorry for her. This was when she was younger. I am just starting her training now.


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## RodeoLoco (Mar 11, 2011)

lacyloo said:


> Have you been able to cinch it up all the way yet? I would let her _"buck it out"_ in a roundpen.
> 
> *edit* I re-read and it appears that she needs other things "fixed" before the saddle training comes in. I would go back to basic respect on the ground.


Oh, and yes, I have gotten her cinched up all the way, and I do not have access to a round pen, only my large pasture.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

At one day old, the vet ( who was supremely scared of equines) put the nose twitch on her. 1 DAY OLD. After this, she started to develop bad habits, like crowding, biting, headbutting and kicking.

So you are saying that you can tell that she was going to be a perfect angel until the vet twitched her? Umm...big hole in that logic. 

I am not one to push the professionals but this girl needs one. If she is 7 and has never even had her feet professionally handled, she is way behind. A trainer is your best and safest bet.


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

my horse gets INCREDIBLY girthy when he's getting ulcers from weather change and/or stress. i put him on an ulcer supp and the issue stopped. it could be something like that - or it could be that she just needs to be trained to deal with a girth period.

you can try clicker and/or treat training - i caution you if you do treat training for positive reinforcement / to keep her distracted and reward her for allowing you to cinch her DO NOT OVER DO IT WITH THE TREATS!!! the goal is just to teach her that cinching is positive experience despite the mild discomfort of something around her belly. 

as for everything else - i'd work on getting her feet picked up ASAP - that to me is a far bigger issue. just because her feet have not overgrown in all these years does not mean that they are balanced and suitable for a rider. while i know you are not planning on riding her right away and are still working on her training, you need to make sure that you CAN handle her feet and legs. what if she gets a puncture wound in her lower leg in the pasture? or develops a stone bruise that abscesses? you will need to be able to handle her for that sort of thing.

keep it positive, and remember baby steps. don't push too much because although she is 7, she still has the education of a yearling (or less - maybe more since you have been working with her for some time now). so take it slow, lots of praise for good stuff, and build on that. good luck!


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## RodeoLoco (Mar 11, 2011)

CJ82Sky said:


> my horse gets INCREDIBLY girthy when he's getting ulcers from weather change and/or stress. i put him on an ulcer supp and the issue stopped. it could be something like that - or it could be that she just needs to be trained to deal with a girth period.
> 
> you can try clicker and/or treat training - i caution you if you do treat training for positive reinforcement / to keep her distracted and reward her for allowing you to cinch her DO NOT OVER DO IT WITH THE TREATS!!! the goal is just to teach her that cinching is positive experience despite the mild discomfort of something around her belly.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I have trained many horses over the years, and have never done treat training. I don't like it much. I have also never seen a horse this bad with the girth. I got her front feet up with the strap with no problems today, so she is coming along nicely.


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

yeah treat training is okay in moderation but people (imo) tend to overuse it and then just create yet another vice to fix. clicker + treat training can work because pretty soon the horse will associate the clicker as positive and you won't need to give treats as much then.

really even any positive reinforcement like vocal praise can do a ton and help her realize cinching is not the end of the world. and i would check for ulcers (or just try an inexpensive ulcer supp for a month or so - you'd see a difference in 1 - 2 weeks) because with all the change in her life, stress can easily give a horse ulcers and it's believed the majority of horses do have ulcers in some form. and since this is all new to her, it would be that much easier for her to be oversensitive to even mild ulcers you know?

YAY on the feet thing. glad she's progressing nicely!!!!


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## RodeoLoco (Mar 11, 2011)

CJ82Sky said:


> yeah treat training is okay in moderation but people (imo) tend to overuse it and then just create yet another vice to fix. clicker + treat training can work because pretty soon the horse will associate the clicker as positive and you won't need to give treats as much then.
> 
> really even any positive reinforcement like vocal praise can do a ton and help her realize cinching is not the end of the world. and i would check for ulcers (or just try an inexpensive ulcer supp for a month or so - you'd see a difference in 1 - 2 weeks) because with all the change in her life, stress can easily give a horse ulcers and it's believed the majority of horses do have ulcers in some form. and since this is all new to her, it would be that much easier for her to be oversensitive to even mild ulcers you know?
> 
> YAY on the feet thing. glad she's progressing nicely!!!!


I have heard of clicker training, I heard it works well too. And she is progressing nicely, thank you. She has made a wonderful improvement on her kicking and biting too, she hasn't tried in over a month!


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

RodeoLoco said:


> Thank you. I have trained many horses over the years, and have never done treat training. I don't like it much. I have also never seen a horse this bad with the girth. I got her front feet up with the strap with no problems today, so she is coming along nicely.


So please don't treat us like idiots who do not read other horse internet forums. So you do not give your horses bread as treats or meals, and you are not a horse trainer, who may or may not be married? Of course this depends on whether your niece is at the keyboard or not huh?


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

AlexS said:


> So please don't treat us like idiots who do not read other horse internet forums. So you do not give your horses bread as treats or meals, and you are not a horse trainer, who may or may not be married? Of course this depends on whether your niece is at the keyboard or not huh?


Wheres my like button? I posted a warning months ago on another thread and it was removed. Just waiting for her to blow up and start feeding her horses "bread" again. :rofl:


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Ain't no thang wrong wif feedin' dem bread. My belgian/appaloosa/friesian/cocker spaniel stallion luffs it!


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## RodeoLoco (Mar 11, 2011)

HowClever said:


> Ain't no thang wrong wif feedin' dem bread. My belgian/appaloosa/friesian/cocker spaniel stallion luffs it!


I agree with this. I do feed my horses bread, 3 loaves soaked with warm water in the winter, 2 loaves dry in the summer. 
And to every one else. The reason I switched forums is to get away from ignorant rude people.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

RodeoLoco said:


> . The reason I switched forums is to get away from ignorant rude people.


Just wonders out loud, and if you find some more ígnorant and rude' people on every forum you go to, maybe you best look at yourself rather than them.


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

My chickens love bread...Horses are close enough related, right? :think:


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## Lizzie4Brodie (Apr 18, 2011)

same but my horse doesnt dislike the girth he dislikes grooming maybe she has a tickley tummy i can sratch his stomach and everything but grooming he pulls faces and kicks out we simply tell him off and now he only pulls faces so it could be that?


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

*Shrugs* I still suggest starting this horse from square one. Leading, backing up, picking up feet, disengaging hindquarters, all around groundwork. You don't need a roundpen to do those exercises. Use the horses field if you have to. I do not have a roundpen and can still accomplish those. 

I didn't go back to the first post but I remember this horse hasn't been handled most of his life. I just wonder why you are asking for saddle work already without doing the basics? IMO its alot easier to train a horse that knows respect than to grab one from the field and saddle-em up. That leaves holes in the training :? I think I am wasting my energy typing this but , Its just my suggestion... 

Cinchy horses are tricky I have never dealt with one that has become dangerous. The ones I have seen handled are given a quick ground lesson as soon as the unwanted behavior starts. Whether the saddle is on or not. The horse soon learns that standing quietly is good thing.


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## RodeoLoco (Mar 11, 2011)

lacyloo said:


> *Shrugs* I still suggest starting this horse from square one. Leading, backing up, picking up feet, disengaging hindquarters, all around groundwork. You don't need a roundpen to do those exercises. Use the horses field if you have to. I do not have a roundpen and can still accomplish those.
> 
> I didn't go back to the first post but I remember this horse hasn't been handled most of his life. I just wonder why you are asking for saddle work already without doing the basics? IMO its alot easier to train a horse that knows respect than to grab one from the field and saddle-em up. That leaves holes in the training :? I think I am wasting my energy typing this but , Its just my suggestion...
> 
> Cinchy horses are tricky I have never dealt with one that has become dangerous. The ones I have seen handled are given a quick ground lesson as soon as the unwanted behavior starts. Whether the saddle is on or not. The horse soon learns that standing quietly is good thing.


She does lead, back up and she is now picking up her front feet. She is quite respectful on the ground. I will post a video of me working with her later.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

RodeoLoco said:


> She has never needed her feet done. She has went shoeless and has never been trimmed. I think this is because of the 24 hour pasture in the summer, witch has tonnes of different terrains.


Yikes. Every horse needs it's feet trimmed to keep them balanced. Every horse. Even on turnout. 
Yikes. Poor horse. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

RodeoLoco said:


> She does lead, back up and she is now picking up her front feet. She is quite respectful on the ground. I will post a video of me working with her later.


A video would be nice. You said she is cinchy, thats why I said "move her until she wants to stay still".


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## aneternalflame (May 25, 2009)

RodeoLoco said:


> I agree with this. I do feed my horses bread, 3 loaves soaked with warm water in the winter, 2 loaves dry in the summer.
> And to every one else. The reason I switched forums is to get away from ignorant rude people.


Wait, what? That just does not sound good to me.. like choking hazard or causing an intestinal blockage not good. Maybe it hasn't happened to you yet but.. you can't possibly tell me that is healthy for your horse.. can you not feed them food designed for horses and their nutritional and digestive needs?


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## Xela (Jan 26, 2011)

I would start this horse over and IMO send her to a pro trainer... Obviously she has HUGE holes in her training..


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## RodeoLoco (Mar 11, 2011)

Xela said:


> I would start this horse over and IMO send her to a pro trainer... Obviously she has HUGE holes in her training..


This is not an option. Around here, the closest pro trainer I can get is over 100 miles away, and is 800$ a month. I am a horse trainer. I have trained many horses, and I train other's horses for a living.


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

Did you get a video?


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## RodeoLoco (Mar 11, 2011)

No not yet, we were out shopping yesterday. I will get one today with my new girth.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

You train others' horses but don't know about basic farrier care? Yikes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RodeoLoco (Mar 11, 2011)

JustDressageIt said:


> You train others' horses but don't know about basic farrier care? Yikes.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Um. Yes, I do know about basic farrier care. I am just saying that Lady has never needed it.


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

AlexS said:


> So please don't treat us like idiots who do not read other horse internet forums. So you do not give your horses bread as treats or meals, and you are not a horse trainer, who may or may not be married? Of course this depends on whether your niece is at the keyboard or not huh?


Just wondering what her question here has anything to do with her being married or feeding her horses bread. She may not give it to them as a reward when training. As she has stated, she doesn't like to do that.
AlexS, I wonder if your thread about being mean to a child was just for the attention, as you obviously don't care to sensor yourself, and like the drama.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Whisper22 said:


> Just wondering what her question here has anything to do with her being married or feeding her horses bread. She may not give it to them as a reward when training. As she has stated, she doesn't like to do that.
> AlexS, I wonder if your thread about being mean to a child was just for the attention, as you obviously don't care to sensor yourself, and like the drama.


If you had come across this poster on another board you would have the back story.

In this case I don't think that Alex has any need to censor herself, there is a world of difference between a child who is trying to learn and is open to suggestions, and someone who can't keep their story straight for 5 minutes and who posts provocative scary stuff on a number of boards.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Whisper22 said:


> Just wondering what her question here has anything to do with her being married or feeding her horses bread. She may not give it to them as a reward when training. As she has stated, she doesn't like to do that.
> AlexS, I wonder if your thread about being mean to a child was just for the attention, as you obviously don't care to sensor yourself, and like the drama.


If you'd read the thread, you'd realize that AlexS only created it because she didn't realize she was being rude to a CHILD and felt different conduct was necessary when an innocent and potentially naive child is asking for advice.

Adults who only post to be provocative are going to GET provoking responses.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Wait... is this horse the same "Lady" as in you barn, pictured with a saddle on, tied to the side of a shed? I can't see well enough, I sure hope there is twine or something that she is tied too, because she must be about to flip out!


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## RodeoLoco (Mar 11, 2011)

Chiilaa said:


> Wait... is this horse the same "Lady" as in you barn, pictured with a saddle on, tied to the side of a shed? I can't see well enough, I sure hope there is twine or something that she is tied too, because she must be about to flip out!


Yes , this is her. And why should she flip out? Oh. . . and this is our extra barn . . . And she is tied with a nylon chain lead rope, to a metal rung put through the wall. this is out tying station.


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## RodeoLoco (Mar 11, 2011)

And Chiilaa , I stated earlier that she is doing much better. This was taken not too long ago. And once she has the saddle on, she is fine. I can get on her, climb all over her. Its the cinch that she doesn't like.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

There is no way she can't have needed farrier care.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RodeoLoco (Mar 11, 2011)

JustDressageIt said:


> There is no way she can't have needed farrier care.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, I cleaned out all of her feet today (with a bit of trouble from the back) and they were perfectly healthy. They need a bit of a trim, but this is because she has been standing in the barn for four months.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

RodeoLoco said:


> And Chiilaa , I stated earlier that she is doing much better. This was taken not too long ago. And once she has the saddle on, she is fine. I can get on her, climb all over her. Its the cinch that she doesn't like.


In your original post, you said you needed help with this. Not that she is getting better with it. You said she 'goes haywire' if you touch the cinch after it is done up, and that you can't take it 'anywhere near' her stomach. 

Where did you say that it was getting better? I read all the pages before I posted, and I don't recall seeing that. It is early here though, maybe I missed it???


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

RodeoLoco said:


> Well, I cleaned out all of her feet today (with a bit of trouble from the back) and they were perfectly healthy. They need a bit of a trim, but this is because she has been standing in the barn for four months.


Good Lord. Yeah she needs a trim! 
Ok, I should take my leave from this thread. Amazing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RodeoLoco (Mar 11, 2011)

Chiilaa said:


> In your original post, you said you needed help with this. Not that she is getting better with it. You said she 'goes haywire' if you touch the cinch after it is done up, and that you can't take it 'anywhere near' her stomach.
> 
> Where did you say that it was getting better? I read all the pages before I posted, and I don't recall seeing that. It is early here though, maybe I missed it???


I said *she *was getting better. I can get on her, climb all over her when its on, I just can't touch it. I needed some opinions on what to do about her cinch sourness. I can pick her feet up now, lead her, brush, saddle, bridle, heck, I can even tie a rope on her foot and lead her around ( this is my way of doing things when she doesn't have a halter on) I can pretty much do anything to her, but I don't like how she hates the girth.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Thanks for the support MM and GH. 

Whisper, I was horrified that I had spoken to a child in the way I would an adult. 

With this particular poster, she has quite the history on other internet boards, quite the history. And her stories here are already not matching, how would a trainer not know how to deal with a cinch issue?

And now she is not getting the desired responses the horse is doing better? And it has not had its feet done in how long?


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## RodeoLoco (Mar 11, 2011)

AlexS said:


> Thanks for the support MM and GH.
> 
> Whisper, I was horrified that I had spoken to a child in the way I would an adult.
> 
> ...


I do know how to deal with it, I wanted to know others opinions. I have dealt with some cases like this before, but every horse is different. I wanted to try something new.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

RodeoLoco said:


> I do know how to deal with it, I wanted to know others opinions. I have dealt with some cases like this before, but every horse is different. I wanted to try something new.


The title of your post is "I'm at my wits end!" Yeah, definitely sounds like a trainer who knows how to deal with the problem and doesn't need help.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

uhh huhhhh!


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

I am curious to see pictures of the feet. Feel free to PM me if you like


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

ease up.
the stuff he/she says may not add up at all, but that doesn't warrant acting judgemental, especially via the internet. who are ya'll to judge?


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## RodeoLoco (Mar 11, 2011)

lacyloo said:


> I am curious to see pictures of the feet. Feel free to PM me if you like


I will take some of her feet today. I also have a video of my daughter working with her in the barn, she took yesterday. I will upload later, as I have to go to work in 10 minutes :-|


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## RodeoLoco (Mar 11, 2011)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> The title of your post is "I'm at my wits end!" Yeah, definitely sounds like a trainer who knows how to deal with the problem and doesn't need help.


I posted I'm at my wits end! to grab peoples attention, and to state that I am fed up with it.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

You make me laugh.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

*head desk*


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Forget it NM


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

RodeoLoco said:


> I posted I'm at my wits end! to grab peoples attention, and to state that I am fed up with it.


So FIX it then uber trainer!


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

I actually have read AlexS thread all the way through and even commented on it. I see nothing in this thread that screams LIAR from the OP. To be called out on subjects that have nothing to do with this thread is pretty rediculous. If this forum is not for asking the advice and oppinions of others then what is it for? Are you people actually telling her because she's a trainer she should be able to fix any problem with her horse and she has no business seeking the advice from outside help. WOW there's some super nice people here. Some of you really are like a pack of wild dogs going in for the kill, get over yourselves.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Whisper, the poster is KNOWN to make things up. We are nice. We just don't like people who claim to know it all but make super rookie mistakes or whine and complain when they get called out, make up stories, or claim to be something they're not. 
There are places for fantasy play - this is not one of them.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Whisper22 said:


> I actually have read AlexS thread all the way through and even commented on it. I see nothing in this thread that screams LIAR from the OP. To be called out on subjects that have nothing to do with this thread is pretty rediculous. If this forum is not for asking the advice and oppinions of others then what is it for? Are you people actually telling her because she's a trainer she should be able to fix any problem with her horse and she has no business seeking the advice from outside help. WOW there's some super nice people here. Some of you really are like a pack of wild dogs going in for the kill, get over yourselves.



No, SHE'S the one who claimed she could fix the problem herself, so why is she asking for help? You don't get to retain an arrogant self centered attitude about your abilities if you've already admitted you CAN'T DO IT by asking for help on a public forum.


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Uhhhhhh when did she say she fix the problem herself? 
Here's a crazy thought, when someone asks for advice on a certain subject, give it on that subject. If you have nothing to say on that subject, don't go searching for ways to make the thread more exciting for yourself. I see no reason for AlexS to call the OP out when what she said has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. The only effect it had was it seems to have lit a fire under everyone else to be as rude as they can. That's why my point was that she obviously learned nothing from her own thread, as that was a point brought up several times. It's not fun to be called out is it? If RodeoLoco is looking for attention, I can only assume others are doing the same.


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

:rofl: Someone has been into the bread


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Assume away Whisper, but would you not think that a cinching issue is a pretty basic issue, and one that could be dealt with by someone who is paid to train horses?

Can we see the pics of the horses feet OP?


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

AlexS said:


> Assume away Whisper, but would you not think that a cinching issue is a pretty basic issue, and one that could be dealt with by someone who is paid to train horses?
> 
> Can we see the pics of the horses feet OP?


I'm also waiting on the pictures. I have heard stories about horses going years without being trimmed but never a picture or in person.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

*shrug* There is no way to tell if a horse truly doesn't need a trim by looking at the hoof without picking it up and seeing the balance and wear. So if said horse couldn't have its feet picked up prior to a few days ago, one can assume that the OP had no clue. 
I have never seen a horse that hasn't needed farrier care.


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

AlexS said:


> Assume away Whisper, but would you not think that a cinching issue is a pretty basic issue, and one that could be dealt with by someone who is paid to train horses?
> 
> Can we see the pics of the horses feet OP?


Maybe it is, but if someone says they need help and you have no help to give, why start drama so that you have something to talk about? She said she has encountered this problem before and has solved this problem before, but in this horses case he is extra sensitive and she would like some new ideas she may not have thought of. I'm not seeing the problem, maybe you would like to point it out?


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Whisper, I am moving along as you seem to not like the drama while doing a wonderful job of prolonging it. 

JDI - the OP just said that she was able to pick the feet up, so maybe she could take a pic of that to?


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

I'd like to apologise about my earliest post in this thread regarding feeding my cocker spaniel cross stallion bread. I don't really feed him bread, he gets fed weetbix and coco pops. 

My niece got to the computer you see.........


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

JustDressageIt said:


> Whisper, the poster is KNOWN to make things up. We are nice. We just don't like people who claim to know it all but make super rookie mistakes or whine and complain when they get called out, make up stories, or claim to be something they're not.
> There are places for fantasy play - this is not one of them.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

christopher said:


>


Winning!


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## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

RodeoLoco said:


> Here is the story, just so this all makes sense. (You don't have to read all this.)
> 
> Lady, is a tb cross mare that was born at our farm 7 years ago. We did not have the time to put into her, so she became a pasture pet. Her mother died, less than 24 hours after the birth, so we were forced to bottle feed her. At one day old, the vet ( who was supremely scared of equines) put the nose twitch on her. 1 DAY OLD. After this, she started to develop bad habits, like crowding, biting, headbutting and kicking. We didn't have the knowledge to stop this, so we left her in the pasture for seven years (taking care of her of course). She cannot pick up her feet, she is very very aggressive, and such. Since we sold my project, Keeper, I have taken her in as my new project.
> 
> ...


I'm no professional but, you need to go back to basics. 



RodeoLoco said:


> Thank you. I have trained many horses over the years, and have never done treat training. I don't like it much. I have also never seen a horse this bad with the girth. I got her front feet up with the strap with no problems today, so she is coming along nicely.


wait hold on, so you can now pick up her feet before she wouldn't let you and went crazy if you did 



RodeoLoco said:


> I agree with this. I do feed my horses bread, 3 loaves soaked with warm water in the winter, 2 loaves dry in the summer.
> And to every one else. The reason I switched forums is to get away from ignorant rude people.


boy, this is definitely interesting. 



RodeoLoco said:


> This is not an option. Around here, the closest pro trainer I can get is over 100 miles away, and is 800$ a month. I am a horse trainer. I have trained many horses, and I train other's horses for a living.


so, if you've trained many horses, how come you can't train your own? This horse needs to see a pro trainer sorry 



RodeoLoco said:


> Um. Yes, I do know about basic farrier care. I am just saying that Lady has never needed it.


Than it's this.... If my horse went years without having a proper trim, i could only imagine. I'd like to see some pictures to OP. If you know about basic farrier care than you should know that all horses need a trim. 


I'm no expert but, there is something not right here. First, the horse has been sitting for 7 years, no work but, than she's working Lady, than she cleaned her feet out and they were okay but, needed a trim (yet she hasn't needed one for 7 years) and she's been sitting in the barn for 4 months (i thought you were "training her") 

she's making up stories.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

It doesn't matter guys, her daughter is training Lady now


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

I really wanna see videos and pictures before i comment i dont really know this poster at all have no prior knowledge of her threads so im a blank canvas however you do contradict in this thread


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## RodeoLoco (Mar 11, 2011)

First of all, this IS my daughters horse. She is training it. I am helping her with what she wants to be helped with. I cannot post pictures and videos until later, because I work a double shift today. I will get back on later and post them. 
As for the strap - Its a leather piece I use to hold the feet up, when I don't want to be kicked by an aggressive horse, it has nothing to do with the cinch.


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

AlexS said:


> Whisper, I am moving along as you seem to not like the drama while doing a wonderful job of prolonging it.
> 
> JDI - the OP just said that she was able to pick the feet up, so maybe she could take a pic of that to?


My problem is not the drama, it's the fact that you are hell bent on creating it at the expense of someone else. I can't stand trolls and this thread is full of them. Thank you by the way for not answering my question. I didn't think you would have a good answer for that.


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## RodeoLoco (Mar 11, 2011)

Whisper22 said:


> My problem is not the drama, it's the fact that you are hell bent on creating it at the expense of someone else. I can't stand trolls and this thread is full of them. Thank you by the way for not answering my question. I didn't think you would have a good answer for that.


My daughter can pick up her front feet, and so can I . She has videos of it all. Brushing, saddling, picking up the feet, I just have to have the time to upload them . it would be nice if you guys could tell me what you want to see, instead of me uploading all 12 of them. My daughter has also made an account, since I have allowed her. Her name is Southern, if you want to talk to her, or anything , but please, be nice. She is 13.


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## RodeoLoco (Mar 11, 2011)

Also, whisper, thank you for saying what you said. You are the only one with enough sense to actually talk about the subject. Thank you.


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## lovesmyhawse (Mar 18, 2011)

How tight are you cinching her girth?
I've seen horses act like that before and it was because their owner was pulling their girth too tight too quickly. No wonder. It must hurt.
Try just cinching the girth up only tight enough to keep the saddle on her back while you lead her around for a few minutes. Then tighten it up another notch, but only enough to hold the saddle up while you mount. 
then ride her around at a walk for a bit before finally tightening her girth all the way.


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## RodeoLoco (Mar 11, 2011)

lovesmyhawse said:


> How tight are you cinching her girth?
> I've seen horses act like that before and it was because their owner was pulling their girth too tight too quickly. No wonder. It must hurt.
> Try just cinching the girth up only tight enough to keep the saddle on her back while you lead her around for a few minutes. Then tighten it up another notch, but only enough to hold the saddle up while you mount.
> then ride her around at a walk for a bit before finally tightening her girth all the way.


Tay cannot ride her yet (my daughter) but she does lead her around the field after she saddles. according to her, she tightens it up in steps, loose, walk, tighter, walk, tighter, walk, and then she pulls it as tight as it will go, and walks her around the whole field, and checks to see if the saddle doesn't slide around.
Edit to add:
I rode her on the rode for the first time yesterday. It didn't go well, I dont think she will be ridden for a while yet, you can see you my other post in Scary Falls.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Whisper22 said:


> My problem is not the drama, it's the fact that you are hell bent on creating it at the expense of someone else. I can't stand trolls and this thread is full of them. Thank you by the way for not answering my question. I didn't think you would have a good answer for that.


I do have an answer, I have a few of them - but to post them here, would be doing exactly what you are complaining about - it would be creating drama at the OPs expense. Do you care enough that you want me to pm you?


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

AlexS said:


> I do have an answer, I have a few of them - but to post them here, would be doing exactly what you are complaining about - it would be creating drama at the OPs expense. Do you care enough that you want me to pm you?


I think it's pretty obvious you, among others, are jumping to conclusions and looking for any reason to call her a liar. A pm is not necessary because it's not so much what you have to say at this point but the way you've chosen to say the things you already have. And just so we are clear, it's not only you but several members here who have chosen to jump on your bandwagon over something that was a fairly simple question. 



RodeoLoco said:


> Also, whisper, thank you for saying what you said. You are the only one with enough sense to actually talk about the subject. Thank you.


I may not have the answers you are looking for but I have zero patience for rude people and saw no reason for it on this thread. I apologize for those that have chosen to treat you that way. Unfortunately it happens a lot on this forum, usually by the same people, I would just ignore them from now on.


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## RodeoLoco (Mar 11, 2011)

Whisper22 said:


> I think it's pretty obvious you, among others, are jumping to conclusions and looking for any reason to call her a liar. A pm is not necessary because it's not so much what you have to say at this point but the way you've chosen to say the things you already have. And just so we are clear, it's not only you but several members here who have chosen to jump on your bandwagon over something that was a fairly simple question.
> 
> 
> 
> I may not have the answers you are looking for but I have zero patience for rude people and saw no reason for it on this thread. I apologize for those that have chosen to treat you that way. Unfortunately it happens a lot on this forum, usually by the same people, I would just ignore them from now on.


I see where you are. I left HGS to get away from rude people. Now it seems that they have followed me here :rofl:


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Left or got ran off with pitchforks? :roll:


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Left or got ran off with pitchforks? :roll:


WOW thank you for being a perfect example of what I was talking about. Completely unecessary and rude considering she has been nothing but nice to everyone else. :roll: right back atcha.


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## RodeoLoco (Mar 11, 2011)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Left or got ran off with pitchforks? :roll:


Unless some one can throw a pitchfork through a computer and make it travel a very long distance, I doubt I ran from pitchforks ;-):think:


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## RodeoLoco (Mar 11, 2011)

Whisper22 said:


> WOW thank you for being a perfect example of what I was talking about. Completely unecessary and rude considering she has been nothing but nice to everyone else. right back atcha.


Exactly, I just make it into a joke :roll:


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Whisper22 said:


> WOW thank you for being a perfect example of what I was talking about. Completely unecessary and rude considering she has been nothing but nice to everyone else. :roll: right back atcha.


Oh get over yourself, pretending to be nice to a bunch of people who have no idea what a lying troll you are doesn't excuse you from past actions. And it seems the pattern just continues here!


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## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

First you are training Lady and now you have an aggressive horse but, a couple of days later is fine, that your 13 old daughter is now training this horse.

so who's training her you or your daughter. 

Whisper her story constantly changes.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

beauforever23 said:


> First you are training Lady and now you have an aggressive horse but, a couple of days later is fine, that your 13 old daughter is now training this horse.
> 
> so who's training her you or your daughter.
> 
> Whisper her story constantly changes.


THANK YOU! It's pretty darn hard to give advice when every single aspect of the question seems to change every 5 seconds.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Whisper22 said:


> WOW thank you for being a perfect example of what I was talking about. Completely unecessary and rude considering she has been nothing but nice to everyone else. :roll: right back atcha.


Whisper have you read the thread? Every reply?

While the OP has not been rude as such, their every reply to any advice has been along the lines of "well that won't work because I have already done it" or "well that won't work because I won't do it". Completely ignore the fact that the horse isn't getting adequate care, since that clearly doesn't matter in this case :-x

The OP's story has changed several times. First she couldn't do the girth up without the horse going 'nuts' and she couldn't do her feet for seven years because the horse is so badly trained that she can't touch her feet. Then when other posters question this, either by showing photos of the horse happily wearing a snugly fitted girth, or by suggesting that in seven years most horses might need a once over by a farrier, suddenly the OP's story changes to "once the girth is on she is fine" and "oh she let me lift her feet this morning and they are fine".

People started the thread with genuine advice. The OP chose to twist it around.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Just wanted to say i have been a member here and hgs since long before you joined hgs so can safely say i did not follow you anywhere 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RodeoLoco (Mar 11, 2011)

beauforever23 said:


> First you are training Lady and now you have an aggressive horse but, a couple of days later is fine, that your 13 old daughter is now training this horse.
> 
> so who's training her you or your daughter.
> 
> Whisper her story constantly changes.


My daughter is training this horse. I am helping her with what she wants to be helped with. This is what she wants to be helped with. And why the heck are you calling me a troll?!? I find this very rude. . . and a bit immature .


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## RodeoLoco (Mar 11, 2011)

HowClever said:


> Just wanted to say i have been a member here and hgs since long before you joined hgs so can safely say i did not follow you anywhere
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Haha thats fine :lol:


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## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

Now this is the part that utterly baffles me, from the very first post.



RodeoLoco said:


> she started to develop bad habits, like crowding, biting, headbutting and kicking. *We didn't have the knowledge to stop this*, so we left her in the pasture for seven years


If the OP and her daughter are such talented horse trainers, as the OP professes to in later posts, and have worked with so many other problem horses and "fixed" them, why on earth did they let the horse stand in the pasture for 7 years and not do anything at all with her?


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Whisper22 said:


> I think it's pretty obvious you, among others, are jumping to conclusions and looking for any reason to call her a liar. A pm is not necessary because it's not so much what you have to say at this point but the way you've chosen to say the things you already have. And just so we are clear, it's not only you but several members here who have chosen to jump on your bandwagon over something that was a fairly simple question.



I sent you the pm anyway. It is a lot of reading, but maybe once you have read it, you will understand the feeling that some of us have as we have seen her on other boards.


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## coffeeaddict (Jun 18, 2010)

> I think it's pretty obvious you, among others, are jumping to conclusions and looking for any reason to call her a liar. A pm is not necessary because it's not so much what you have to say at this point but the way you've chosen to say the things you already have. And just so we are clear, it's not only you but several members here who have chosen to jump on your bandwagon over something that was a fairly simple question.
> ​


I have to agree with you. This is one of the reasons I don't post here as much as I do on other boards. There seems to be a mentality that it's ok or even expected for members to jump on someone the first chance they get and try to call them out about whatever they can. It's a hostile environment to some degree. (fyi I know nothing about the OP, so I have no opinion there either way)

Does everyone do this? No. But some do and it's allowed. I think the reasoning behind it is "horse welfare comes before you're feelings" and I can agree with that idea. It should. But there are ways to make a point without being aggressive or passive aggressive. 

I'm a member on a few pet related forums and some manage to be able to run it in such a way that the above statement is true, while still being a welcoming and friendly place. And others cannot achieve that. It goes one way or the other but can't be balanced. In my opinion, this place falls into the second catagory. 

There are awesome members here, and I still like this forum quite a bit, but anyone can be gutted if they post the wrong thing and I often feel like you need to walk on eggshells. No forum is perfect though....


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## Magaidh (Apr 13, 2011)

Hmm. Weird thread. 

RodeoLoco, perhaps you can post the video showing the issues you're having, and then we will have a better idea how to help.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

Wow.

That is all I have to say. Some excellent advice offered from the forum - as usual. All I have to say is good luck to the OP.

And I hope they make the best choice for the horses care and safety and the safety of her 13 year old daughter training the horse - that obviously has some extreme training faults.


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## Jessskater (Mar 16, 2011)

Wow, what a read.. OP: Just take your time with her. Try holding the girth lightly to her and once she relaxes let it go. Repeat. Then actually do it up once she gets more comfortable. My TB had the same problem.


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

RodeoLoco said:


> I have heard of clicker training, I heard it works well too. And she is progressing nicely, thank you. She has made a wonderful improvement on her kicking and biting too, she hasn't tried in over a month!





Chiilaa said:


> Whisper have you read the thread? Every reply?
> 
> While *the OP has not been rude as such*, their every reply to any advice has been along the lines of "well that won't work because I have already done it" or "well that won't work because I won't do it". Completely ignore the fact that the horse isn't getting adequate care, since that clearly doesn't matter in this case :-x
> 
> ...


Have YOU read the thread all the way through? She never said the horses feet weren't done because she was so badly trained. She said the horse never needed it because she lived in a pasture with different types of terrain. The horse now has a hard time with her feet because they havn't been handled. The part in bold is a perfect reason to remain respectful yourself. The OP's post I quoted is an example of her agreeing with advice given.



MacabreMikolaj said:


> Oh get over yourself, pretending to be nice to a bunch of people who have no idea what a lying troll you are doesn't excuse you from past actions. And it seems the pattern just continues here!


I actually have read some of her other posts from other threads and she has been perfectly nice in all of them, I don't think she's pretending. Even if she was, that's better than someone who doesn't even try.


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

I've been rude, no secret there. I have also typed this out twice thanks to my lame computer. 

Anyways- I have requested pictures of the feet, asked questions regarding the cinch and would be thrilled if the OP posted a video of what she is talking about. Obliviously the OP can use a keyboard, why not let her defend herself?


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

lacyloo said:


> I've been rude, no secret there. I have also typed this out twice thanks to my lame computer.
> 
> Anyways- I have requested pictures of the feet, asked questions regarding the cinch and would be thrilled if the OP posted a video of what she is talking about. Obliviously the OP can use a keyboard, why not let her defend herself?


I think we all should wait to hear from the OP again, maybe she can't get on the forum at the moment?

I am not defending the OP, and this is not directed at you personally - But we should *ALL* remember out respect towards others. I have not seen the OP's other threads. However I have read through the whole of this thread.

To the OP, is there any chance you could get these photos/videos up?


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

No problem waiting for the OP to respond to this thread. I know she will. I generally give people the benefit of the doubt but not when they have an extensive post history on other forums. 

On a side note...Good to see you around, Chingaz.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

lacyloo said:


> No problem waiting for the OP to respond to this thread. I know she will. I generally give people the benefit of the doubt but not when they have an extensive post history on other forums.
> 
> On a side note...Good to see you around, Chingaz.


Fair point. Hopefully we'll get a positive reply soon.
Thankyou, I just took some time off to work with Chinga a lot and catch up on school!


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## RodeoLoco (Mar 11, 2011)

I have been very busy lately, with bills, and taxes and what not, but thank you to every one that is being positive. I will get more done when I can.


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## brackabrack (Feb 27, 2011)

RodeoLoco said:


> My daughter is training this horse. I am helping her with what she wants to be helped with. This is what she wants to be helped with. And why the heck are you calling me a troll?!? I find this very rude. . . and a bit immature .


Im sorry, but i have a 4yo gelding who ( in no dis-respect) is far more advanced than Lady, but he still has his issues. I would not allow a 13 year old to train HIM, never mind Lady with the previous problems discussed. Regardless ! I do apologise, but for her to go 'haywire' and attempt to strike out and 'never be able to turn your back on her' .. i wouldn't let anybody near her but myself! with full insurance cover! 
The others are right, it is a huge respect issue! That is the issue with alot of horses that have been left to do what they wish for so long, my boy has it and when he shows signs of dis-respect i take him back to ground work to show him who is boss. only when he listens to me, is when we do something HE likes (hacking/trail rides)..
Try talking to her in a soft voice when shes good, like baby talk and cuddles when grooming.. and say shes shes giving you a hard time with picking her feet, increase the TONE in your voice and pressure on her leg to make it clear shes doing wrong not giving her foot. the MOMENT she lifts her foot, go back to baby talk and just support the foot. Works wonders with mine. he used to put so much weight onto his lifted leg he would fall onto you. now i tap and cluck and he lifts with no trouble! hes rewarded with a pat and baby talk. 

All in all, i think everyone should concentrate on the question in hand. regardless if she is changing her story. _Negativity and abuse_, verbal or physical gets *nowhere* with _*humans*_ AND *horses*! YOU SHOULD ALL KNOW THAT !

Kudos for coming forward with a problem, its what we are here to do regardless of our 'employment'.
I have learnt alot here, for those who have met me in previous threads know this! did i mention im a 20 year old dancer?? But been with horses my entire life. Doesnt mean i know everything ?! People here have gave me soft advice, which have certainly made me think about how i can turn my horses behaviour around. And look! It worked! Still a few holes in his training though.. I am working on this! it all takes time and my goodness patience of a saint ! (also insurance :lol: )


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

brackabrack said:


> All in all, i think everyone should concentrate on the question in hand. regardless if she is changing her story. _Negativity and abuse_, verbal or physical gets *nowhere* with _*humans*_ AND *horses*! YOU SHOULD ALL KNOW THAT !)


worthy of quotation


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