# How To Correct A Chair Seat



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

It could be either.

Gravity wants to force our rumps into the lowest part of the saddle, and to keep the stirrups hanging vertical. Anything out of those positions will require overcoming gravity.

When you sit in the lowest part of the saddle, and let the stirrups hang loose, where are they? If you have to move your feet forward to get them in the stirrup, then the saddle is trying to put you in a chair seat.

However, sometimes our bodies do it to us. For most of the first 3 years of my riding, I've used a chair seat. My legs and hips just would not flex enough to allow them to hang loose beneath me. So I had to choose - a relaxed leg with a bit of a chair seat, or a tense leg without one.

I find a relaxed leg is more important to a good seat than leg position, so I had a mild chair seat. OK, more than mild. With time, my body is getting looser and I'm increasingly able to have my legs relaxed AND my heels at my hip. That helps me sit deep and also helps me keep my shoulders back - but I started at 50, and 40 years of daily jogging left me VERY tight.

Even now, I can get my heels under my hip IF I'm riding my narrow Arabians. If I ride a 1200 lb Quarter Horse, it ain't happening. Back to a chair seat for me.

So it depends. Also, a chair seat can be a defensive reaction due to fear the horse will stop suddenly and we'll pitch forward.

I still think a relaxed, loose leg is better than heels under hip/toes forward/etc. It isn't that the other things are bad, just that some of us can't get there right now without putting tension in our legs. And any tension in my legs makes me bounce like I'm on rubber.

In my limited experience of 3 years, lots of books and instructors teach based on what THEY can do, and not what a beginner can do. You can explore the chair seat with your instructor while the horse is standing still. Your instructor SHOULD be able to feel your leg in different positions, see where you are seated in the saddle, and tell you if you are able to ride relaxed without a chair seat.


----------



## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

Firstly, don't be hard on yourself for it; it takes time to adapt the human body to the proper "standing in your horse" position! Tendons & all must go thru changes!

Stretching the front thigh muscles is really good: bend knee, heel to bum, grab foot with same side hand, gently hold in a vector, move to other vectors. Can be done standing on one leg, or lying on one's side.


----------



## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

A chair seat is very natural for anybody that starts to ride. You are not balanced when you sit this way and you are bracing against the stirrups for security. This is normal, too, bc the darned horse moves you around when he walks and trots and canters--WHY can't he move more like a car?!?!?
Seriously, the best remedy is to sit a VERY safe lesson horse for many lessons without stirrups. You just let your legs hang down and let your toes point downwards, too. It all has to do with riding weighted. The longer you are sitting in a saddle, the more weighted your body becomes, and this corrects your chair seat. Since you are taking lessons, you are not sitting the saddle long enough to have this happen. Therefore, riding for hours and hours without stirrups will correct this.
Many 19th century painters, like Remington, observed that the Native Americans were great horseman and they loved to paint them.










See^? Perfect leg in line with the hip and the shoulder. Also, note that his body is balanced independant of the reins. Hope this helps!! If you'd like to talk more about this, please PM me! =D


----------



## emeraldstar642 (Jul 16, 2011)

Riding positions are solely based on balance. It's kind of like an automatic balance-the-scale system. The center of the saddle is the pivot point. So, for example, if you move your legs back, your upper body will automatically come forwards to balance your weight.

The chair seat is usually caused because the rider is sitting too far back on their butt instead of on their seat bones. Your seat bones are basically what they sound like: bones that you sit on. But in order to sit on them, you need to roll your hips forward. You should feel it when you're sitting correctly.

Just by doing this, you are encouraging your leg to slide back and beneath you. If you try to bring your legs under you when you are sitting too far back, it will be uncomfortable and unsafe because you are unbalanced. Fix the way you are sitting and it will become much easier to bring it back.

Once you've fixed the problem of your seat, focus on dropping the weight into your heels. Make sure you are not gripping with your knees, which is another common cause of the chair seat. Also, remember always: balance. If your leg _still_ slides forward, consider the possibility that you may be tipping backwards with your upper body. If this is the case, try to lean forwards a bit.

But remember: it's not going to be extremely easy. When riding in chair seat, you are slacking. You are depending on other parts of your body like your knees and butt instead of using your muscles. When you start riding properly, you're muscles are probably going to be fairly weak and very sore. But keep at it, and pretty soon you'll gain the muscle you need to continuously ride correctly. It all comes with practice.

These are the basic reasons of why you could be sitting in chair seat, but of course it would be much easier to identify the core problem if we could see some pictures. That way, we could tell you exactly what the problem is and exactly how to fix it. Post some as soon as you can. 

Hope I was helpful.


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

emeraldstar642 said:


> ...The center of the saddle is the pivot point. So, for example, if you move your legs back, your upper body will automatically come forwards to balance your weight...


In all honesty, that is contrary to my experience. When I move my feet forward, my shoulders follow. Why? Because if they didn't, I would pivot at the saddle and end up lying on the horse. So if I move my feet forward, my shoulders follow. This puts my center of gravity on a vertical line halfway between my toes and my rump. Thus I am 'balanced'.

If I move my feet too far back, I tend to throw my shoulders back to compensate and retain my 'balance'.

I've noticed this very strongly this last month, because it is only very recently that I could stretch enough to put my heels under my hips while trotting - and suddenly, my whole "Put your shoulders back!" (to quote my instructor about 1000 times) just happens.

When my heels are forward, my shoulders want to follow like this: >

If I don't, then I would do this: / until I did this: --

I don't know if that makes sense, and I don't know if anyone else is like me. :shock:

It may be a bit hard to see, but look at my avatar - taken a couple of years ago. Both feet and shoulders are forward.


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Here is a picture from 2 1/2 years ago - shoulders and feet both forward:


----------



## Passion4Horses (Aug 25, 2011)

Thanks guys! Any other help/suggestions? I really want to fix this.


----------



## emeraldstar642 (Jul 16, 2011)

bsms said:


> When my heels are forward, my shoulders want to follow like this: >
> 
> If I don't, then I would do this: / until I did this: --
> 
> ...


It makes sense... but I don't understand what you are disagreeing about; you basically restated what I said, just adding a little bit extra. First of all, you said "if I don't, then I would do this: /". Well, that's what I mean by it's an automatic thing to move back to balance your weight. HOWEVER, what happens to you is that you know when your upper body is too far back, and so when your leg comes forward (and your upper body moves back), your automatic reaction is to fix that by moving your upper body forward. Thus, the reason that you are moving forward like this: > is in attempt to fix your upper body, not to 'follow your leg'. I never said it was impossible to have both your feet and upper body forwards. 

I hope that made sense...


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

^^ It did.


----------



## Passion4Horses (Aug 25, 2011)

Ok I know I wrote this thread a few weeks ago but I finally got a video that shows my not so hot position. Here is the youtube link- hope it works


----------



## Valentina (Jul 27, 2009)

Passion4Horses said:


> Thanks guys! Any other help/suggestions? I really want to fix this.


Since you're taking lessons (private?) ask for a lunge line lesson to work on your position. If your balance is decent you can remove the stirrups - that WILL promote a nice long leg and help eliminate a chair seat. Also pay attention to the saddle that is pushing you into this seat - do you use the same saddle every time? If so is it because that is the only saddle available to you, or the one that fits your horse? Then ask your instructor if they have a saddle with longer flaps (for longer thighs). A saddle can force you into a chair seat or encourage you to continue in a chair seat. 

A dressage saddle with front thigh blocks can help "train" your leg to be longer. If you don't have that available a longer flapped saddle with thigh blocks (perhaps longer stirrup leathers?) would also "tend" to help fix the ole chair seat.


----------



## catsandhorses (Aug 6, 2011)

Passion4Horses said:


> Ok I know I wrote this thread a few weeks ago but I finally got a video that shows my not so hot position. Here is the youtube link- hope it works


Trotting without stirrups - the cure for many issues! FWIW, here is what I like to do...

When you first get in to the saddle, flip your stirrups across over your saddle to get them out of your way and to prevent them from swinging around and hitting the horse. Then let your legs hang down. Swing your legs from front to back from the hip to get them loose and really relax. They should drop another 2 inches. Relax your lower back, still tall, look forward, and walk on letting your hips follow your horses' movements. 

When you are ready, squeeze with your lower legs in to an easy trot. Keep pressing with your lower legs, allowing your knees and lower back to remain soft to absorb the bounce. Keeping your calves on helps keep you on the horse!..as well as keeping him moving forward.

Practice going large, then in 20 m circles, then figure 8's then over cavaletti poles...

I do work without stirrups at least a couple times per week - keeps me fit...and honest


----------



## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Passion4Horses said:


> Ok I know I wrote this thread a few weeks ago but I finally got a video that shows my not so hot position. Here is the youtube link- hope it works
> 
> [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtUQtoWob4M"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtUQtoWob4M[/URL]


That saddle is all wrong for you. It puts you in a horrible position, your body is being shoved to the rear of the saddle, and the flaps are not forward enough for your body type. 

Also, your posting is very loud, and your seat should never make contact with the saddle on your downward movement. You are making far too much of an effort to post, when your posting should be soft and light, allowing your horse to make you do the movement...you shouldn't be forcing it - againa, this is your saddle.

Your saddle should put your leg underneith you directly, where you can balance oer your feet. Your weight should be distributed near the pommel area where you are sitting over the girth, also when you sit, you cannot fit a handswidth between your seat and the rear of the saddle - that saddle is all wrong for you.

You need a saddle with a much more forward flap, and bigger in size. When you sit in the saddle, you should instantly be balanced.


----------



## Passion4Horses (Aug 25, 2011)

Thank you for your info MIEventer. I kind of had a feeling that my thigh didn't fit the saddle very well. I have my next lesson on wedensday and I will talk to my trainer and see about a different saddle, I am not sure if we will have another option or not, but hopefully I can find a different one! Do you think I will have a hard time fitting into saddles because I have longer thighs though? Also I know my posting is off it feels and looks like it is a huge movement, so do you think that with the right saddle that will be fixed?

Thanks for all the posts everyone. I am learning so much, I really love this forum!


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I saw the vid, but I don't know how MIeventer can tell about the saddle. I feel like I'm peeking out and can hardly get any detail.

You do post too "loud", but I think that is because you are posting off your knee. You are levering yourself up and working a lot harder than necessary. When you can get you leg more under you and post with your weight comeing all the way down into your stirrup, it will be much lighter, both goin up and coming down. 

There was some discussin about the upper body coming forward or backward, according to whether or not the lower leg was forward or back. 
here's my experience: If the lower leg is too far forward, the upper body will have to compensate to keep the body balanced. The only way to not do that is to resist by pushing hard into the stirrup, but when posting , if the lowe leg is too far forward, you HAVE to more your upper body also forward.

If your saddle is not sitting correctlly on the back of this horse, for reasons of poor saddle fit or because the hrose is by nature very "uphill' in build, the front of the saddle will be too high. You will end up kind of sitting on a "hill" and will constantly be struggling to "climb" it every time you lever yourself out of the saddle. This also results in the rider often falling behind the motion (the trot rythm) of the horse, and then landing not as soft as they should in each down stroke of the post.

Look at the saddle sitting on the horse's back. See if the back (the cantle) is about 1 inch or so HIGHER than the front. If the front is higher than the back , then the saddle's position is off. Might indicate that it's too narrow in front, too.

How tall are you? What size is that saddle?


----------



## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Passion4Horses said:


> Thank you for your info MIEventer. I kind of had a feeling that my thigh didn't fit the saddle very well. I have my next lesson on wedensday and I will talk to my trainer and see about a different saddle, I am not sure if we will have another option or not, but hopefully I can find a different one! Do you think I will have a hard time fitting into saddles because I have longer thighs though? Also I know my posting is off it feels and looks like it is a huge movement, so do you think that with the right saddle that will be fixed?
> 
> Thanks for all the posts everyone. I am learning so much, I really love this forum!


You are welcome, glad I was able to shed some light on the subject. If you had a feeling, then follow that. That saddle is all wrong for you and puts you in a not so good position.

Remember, your saddle should aid you, not hinder you. It has to work with you, not against you - and that saddle is against you. It's just not right for your body type at all.

Yes, you need a more forward flap of a saddle - but see what your coach can come up with. You might not have that much of an option if you are using a lesson horse and lesson saddle.

If you have your own, I would highly encourage you and your parents to go to a saddler, and sit in a multitude of saddles that they put out for you pending your body type. You have a long leg like me, I have to have a forward flap to accomodate that.

My new saddle, puts me in a beautiful position, naturally. I don't have to fight or struggle to achieve it - your saddle should put your feet under you naturally, the twist should accomodate your pelvis size, the flaps must accomodate your leg length. You want to beable to get a handswidth between your seat and the cantle when you are in the sit position. And yes, when you are balanced over your feet and your seat is put in a proper position, your posting will grow quieter and softer....because your saddle is working with you. 

Let me know how it goes!


----------



## Passion4Horses (Aug 25, 2011)

Tinyliny- I am 5' 7" or maybe 5'8" and I am not positive but I think the saddle is a 17.

MIEventer- It is a lesson saddle, so I will hopefully find one that will fit me better. I will see how it goes and post a new vid on wedensday if I get to use a different saddle.

Thanks everyone for their posts.


----------



## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I am 5'7" and I am in an 18", with a forward flap. Being an Eventer, I have to have a forward flap.


----------



## NoHorse (Feb 18, 2011)

I used to have a BAD chair seat and couldn't understand why posting was so difficult. Finally my instructor got this idea to use a rubber band-like thing (bright yellow, probably 4 feet long, 6in wide, thin like latex, very embarrassing ) to tie to both stirrups and wrap behind the cantle. That kind of taught me how proper position is supposed to be/feel and I've never had a problem with chair seat since.


----------

