# "Frugal" Things You Do/Don't Do



## CopperLove (Feb 14, 2019)

Ok, I realized after I finished this it’s an absolute book to read, but I’m very interested in learning about other people’s lifestyles and experiences, so I hope even just a few members are interested enough to participate :lol:

I have been fascinated for a while now with the “minimalism” movement in the sense of keeping less stuff, or only the stuff that brings joy (or in a practical sense, stuff you NEED. ie. dish towels don't necessarily bring me joy but I NEED them.) To me, this idea also crosses over with financial planning/saving for future endeavors, which I've just recently become really engrossed in after getting my first really decent full time job. I've sort of turned financial planning/saving into a challenging game in my mind so that it seems less stressful.

I just paid my first boarding check for my mare this past Sunday when we moved her out to the ranch I’ve been taking lessons at. I’m getting a great deal (or so I believe, time will tell. But I really admire their horses and their lifestyle, and I think they will do a great job with Dreama and help me learn to do the same.)

That got me thinking about how we all value different experiences and things that we invest our money in. Obviously, owning, leasing, or even taking riding lessons with horses is not a “frugal” thing to do at all. (“Frugal” is another word that gets thrown around a lot in certain financial planning videos I enjoy watching, and being not too many generations removed from my grandparents who literally lived in the hills of KY and farmed tobacco, I wonder if some of the people in these videos actually understand what “frugal” and the necessity to be frugal actually is.)

I was going over in my mind the things that I do and sometimes my partner does that save us money, some of which I’ve heard people talk about as “strange” ways to save money. I don’t think any of them are strange at all and I’m betting that other Horse Forum members feel the same, as we all come from various walks of life and financial situations.

SO I was wondering about what you all do that saves money or is “frugal” in ways that some people might think was strange? (And maybe pick up some ideas for myself.) I’d love to hear what other horse people think about this subject, or if it’s something you even have to think about or just subconsciously do. Also, if you do consider yourself a very money-conscious person, what are the things that you think are worth splurging on? I have already seen a few fabulous things that other members do with their properties to conserve resources and re-use materials. 

Here is my list of examples of things that we do:

-	I don’t cut my hair.
-	My partner cuts his own hair.
-	Dishwasher pods – just started making my own. No adverse effects so far on the dishes or dish-washer.
-	Laundry powder – about to start making my own. I’ve seen all kinds of pros and cons of this online, but my mind was made up when I discovered I have a co-worker who has done it for years and loves it.
-	When I kept pet rats, I used fleece bedding that I washed instead of wood shaving or paper disposable bedding.
-	Clothing - I wear thrifted or hand-me down clothes. I was tempted to do a complete wardrobe re-do when I got my new office job. Mom helped me thrift for some dress-pants and blouses, and I decided I’m NOT buy any new clothing until winter, when I may have to invest in some work-appropriate sweaters. I did buy appropriate boots to ride in as I really didn’t have a truly safe pair.
-	No real TV service, nor home phone - We split Netflix with my partner’s family, and I watch pretty much everything else I want to online. 
-	Dish towels/rags – We use them for almost everything. For napkins, cleaning, dish washing, etc. I don’t keep disposable sponges. The only reason I still keep paper towels is that I don’t like cleaning up cat-vomit or the toilet with something that isn’t disposable.
-	Re-usable Swiffer pads – I love my Swiffer, but I crocheted my own pads! They get thrown in the wash and re-used like the dish towels. I'm also thinking about donating my swiffer and replacing it with a different brand, as I didn't realize when I purchased the wet-jet that I couldn't refill the cleaning solution myself - they've made it so you can't refill those containers, so you have to keep purchasing their refill pods. I know there are versions out there I can fill with my own cleaning solution. Over time, I think that would save some money and be more environmentally conscious (less plastic waste and I could refill it with something more eco-friendly.(


Some quirks that keep me from saving more money:

-	Books. We have a local bookstore I love (and worked in the coffee shop in the front while I was in college). I still love the library and second-hand books, but I’ve decided to make room in my budget to purchase one from them once a month or every few months. (I have so many currently to get through I’ve put myself on a book no-buy for the next couple of months :lol: ) It’s important to me to support local businesses when I can.
-	Shoes. As with other clothing, I don’t keep a lot of shoes and the ones I do have were primarily hand-me downs and gifts, but boy when I do decide to buy a pair of shoes… I want quality. I want leather typically. I want something that’s actually going to stand up for multiple seasons instead of falling apart after one summer or winter of use. I’ve been shocked by how quickly some of the name-brands have fallen apart from being worn every day so I am more careful now.
-	When I DO decide to buy any new clothing, I’ve decided I am interested in certain natural fibers and brands of quality that may not be cheap. I am still researching what brands I actually want to start to add to my wardrobe in years to come, and I do still intend to search second-hand first.
-	Eating out - Something I am trying to do better about. My friends and I are all so busy though, that sometimes the only way we get together is have dinner at a restaurant before we head home in the evenings. What I am trying to completely cut out is fast-food… where I travel between the different locations of my workplace, it is often way too easy to not devote the time to cooking and just grab something on the way there.
-	And obviously, horse care :lol:


I will be surprised if anyone made it this far :rofl: Congrats to anyone still reading! I hope someone out there finds this sort of thing as interesting as I do.

** Edit to say, by "first really decent full time job" I mean that I had a full-time job straight out of college but it was miserable, I freelanced in my field for a while and worked multiple part-time jobs. So I've never not had income, as is obvious by the things I've talked about spending money on. It's just that I feel I can attempt to really plan for things and evaluate my goals more accurately now.


----------



## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

I've been doing the "do it yourself, do without or make it do" thing for about ... forty-five years now. I used to spend a lot of time with my grandmother, a former farm wife back when farms were nearly self-sufficient entities. She made all her own and her children's clothes, sewed quilts out of flour sacks lined with wool from her own sheep, helped butcher hogs and made ham and sausage and soap, grew and put up all the fruit and vegetables they ate all year. She taught me to make bread without a recipe, darn socks, make soup stock, and many other things. She put me on my life track I guess.

I know how to do a lot more self-sufficient things than I have energy for, these days. I still keep hens but I no longer keep dairy animals and make yogurt and cheese the way I used to. I don't have the energy to keep up a veggie garden. We just moved last year and I have replanted some of the apple orchard that used to be here. Am returning a great deal of the stupid acre of lawn to natural meadow. But I'm not young any more, and I want to use what time and energy I can on what I enjoy the most, which is riding.

It's good to be aware of the monumental excess and waste that living in a capitalist economy forces you into whether you want it or not. Just try not buying single-use plastic -- it is EVERYWHERE AND IN EVERYTHING. You cannot avoid it. Same with burning fossil fuel. You have to swim upstream with everything you've got just to not float down the bloated river of mindless waste with everyone else.

But saving money is super easy. Simply making a box lunch for work and drinking water out of the tap, is a radical move. Cook at home, mend your clothes, walk or bicycle wherever you can ... these things are both frugal and rewarding. 

Another thing capitalism wants you to do besides never think about the consequences of what you are buying is to be too busy to do for yourself, so you have to buy convenience. It's a whole system. 

I am a pessimist by nature; I think humans are destroying the living fabric of the planet as fast as they possibly can. I try not to cause harm -- that's about all I have the means to do. That it also saves me money is a byproduct.


----------



## RidingWithRuby (Apr 18, 2019)

I do buy used books (sometimes. I live in a small town and we don't have a used bookstore, and our library stinks selection-wise)

Try to use coupons for anything I can. I'm a crafter, so A.C Moore, Michael's, and Joann's are my weaknesses. Also pet stores, because my dogs MIGHT NEEEED a 3-foot long beef trachea chew. Obviously.

Wear clothes over and over until they're worn out, shop for sales, never buy any new clothes unless I need them or they're ridiculously cheap.

Reusable water bottle and tap water. Might not taste *quite* as good as the bottled stuff, but hey. Better bland water than plastic bottles.

I never ever buy trinkets or knicknacks. I am tired of clutter, tired of stuff. Unless it has a purpose, I dont want it. I don't buy things just because they're pretty or would match the curtains.

Our luxuries are food and Internet/services. We have really bad Wi-Fi and data signals, so we have unlimited data on both so we can bounce between the two. We also travel a lot, and I stream too much music. We have Netflix, Amazon Prime, Spotify Premium and Hulu. Guilty pleasures, but cheaper per month than buying a new DVD or CD. We eat lots of fish, and that's pricey. But fish is so gooooood.


----------



## CopperLove (Feb 14, 2019)

@Avna I have found, even though I like researching financial/minimalist/diy things, a lot of it is stuff that we were already doing or that my family did growing up. Despite the fact that I eat out way more than I should, I still meal-prep every week and never buy bottled water. I definitely know people who eat out for almost every meal, or only do pre-ready stuff at home. Because I'm not always purchasing new clothing, I'm not good at sewing but I have learned to repair small holes in things sufficiently enough for my needs. I also know how to knit my own socks! But good sock material these days is pretty pricey.... usually a nylon/wool blend is the most practical because it keeps the property of the wool while being machine washable and dryable and holds its shape very well over time. Even though it would cost more in the long run, one of my goals is to eventually have knit all my own socks :lol: The knitting also doubles as entertainment and can keep me occupied for hours while also providing a rewarding end-product.

There is definitely such a fine balance in the world today of trying to be a little self-sufficient vs. completely wearing yourself out. There are things I'd like to learn while I do have the energy to do so. I'd like to have chickens one day. Not so much to save money, but because I feel very bad for chickens in factory-farm settings and it would be nice to know where all my eggs came from. I'm also learning to grow things... or more like just making an effort to grow things. I am growing just a few peppers and tomatoes this year, but I have to grow them in buckets since we rent and I doubt our landlord would let me dig up the yard :lol: Having to get the containers and soil to grow stuff in if you don't have a place for a garden is probably too expensive to be worth the produce I'll actually get from it... but I just wanted to do it. Start small, read and learn and maybe one day have a garden when I have a place to do so.

A few years ago I decided I wanted to switch to personal care and home cleaning products that were not animal-tested. That started a whole new journey because it opened my eyes about what kind of products we pour into the environment daily. It led to me really using less, because a lot of the more eco and animal friendly products also cost more. Overall it made me more conscious of all the "stuff" I was buying, because if you start thinking about what's in those kinds of products, you inevitably start thinking about the impact other things have as well. The processes of making clothing, synthetic fibers, where labor comes from, etc. I agree about trying not to cause harm. I try to do my personal best and not think too hard about the rest because it just becomes too overwhelming.


----------



## CopperLove (Feb 14, 2019)

@RidingWithRuby Ha! We also are not "this knicknack matches the curtains" kind of people. Nothing against those who do love home decor. We don't actually even have curtains :rofl: We rent a very cheap place that is probably a bit smaller than we would like, but the goal is to save on cost of living and focus on saving money on the down-payment for a future home. At that point in time, I think I would like to save some money to buy some local hand-made art to decorate with, which again ties in with wanting to support local when possible... I spent a year doing art and craft vendor sales on the side and that stuff is such hard work. I have a weakness for hand crafted items and art. It has a deep value to me and I know what it means from personal experience to the artist when someone buys their work.


----------



## TimmysMom (Aug 15, 2009)

Well, I think you are well on your way to achieving absolute minimalism! For a few years, I lived in an RV and was surprised how little you actually needed to survive. Cheap gym for showers, parking place for saving gas, etc. I NEVER buy those wasteful and eco-deadly water bottles - watch the "Plastic Planet"!

Now, years later, on a small SSI income, I rent a room, culled my clothes (all Goodwill!), shoes, pictures, anything I either don't look at or use.

I no longer have a horse, though one time, I left my ranch manager's job, with just my horse and dog in tow. I had nowhere to go, so I parked at a trailhead and put signs around it looking for a live-in trainer/manager. Luckily a person called me, and I had a place to live cheap and a place for my horse. The toughest period of my life.


----------



## CopperLove (Feb 14, 2019)

@TimmysMom For a little while I was obsessed with the idea of tiny-home/RV living. But I think that also had something to do with being in a job situation that was wearing on my mental health and the idea of just being able to drive away from it all, no matter the cost, was very appealing. Changing jobs and moving into a smaller, better-kept rental space grounded me a little bit though.

I will never really be able to fit under the "minimalist" label. There are too many things I do like having even though I don't need them... making one's own clothing and accessories often costs more these days than store-bought, but I love to knit and crochet and make things, collect shiny bits to make jewelry from. I will probably always have more than the minimal, but who needs labels anyway, right? :lol: Some of that stuff I make to sell or as gifts though. I have down sized on the craft-room quite a bit now that I'm not trying to do it to seriously supplement my income.


----------



## RidingWithRuby (Apr 18, 2019)

CopperLove said:


> @RidingWithRuby Ha! We also are not "this knicknack matches the curtains" kind of people. Nothing against those who do love home decor. We don't actually even have curtains <img style="max-width:100%;" src="http://www.horseforum.com/images/smilies/rofl.gif" border="0" alt="" title="ROFL" class="inlineimg" /> We rent a very cheap place that is probably a bit smaller than we would like, but the goal is to save on cost of living and focus on saving money on the down-payment for a future home. At that point in time, I think I would like to save some money to buy some local hand-made art to decorate with, which again ties in with wanting to support local when possible... I spent a year doing art and craft vendor sales on the side and that stuff is such hard work. I have a weakness for hand crafted items and art. It has a deep value to me and I know what it means from personal experience to the artist when someone buys their work.


Quoting this just for the sake of testing. Tried to post a reply and I was told I didn't have permission. Weird.


----------



## RidingWithRuby (Apr 18, 2019)

Of course it worked. After my draft disappeared. ={

Nothing against home decor here! I just don't need anything fancy.

I'm going to admit something here: I am an amateur photographer and my favorite subjects are my dogs.....so I have an Instagram dedicated to them. Maybe silly, but true. :'D

Anyway, I see so mamy beautiful handmade items on Instagram that I just cannot justify buying. $45 for a dog collar? I can make one cheaper than that.

It's gotten to the point where I make all my own bandanas and I'll soon be dabbling in collars, dog tags, leashes, etc. I've been considering selling online at a reasonable price, because so much is either overpriced or mass produced in a factory. (I haven't found a handmade harness for under $40. I have two dogs. $80 would feed them for....a long time. $80 would cover a yearly exam plus some.)

Speaking of dogs, they're too expensive
😄 Once spent $400+ on a scratched eye. Then she went and did it again.


----------



## CopperLove (Feb 14, 2019)

@RidingWithRuby Earlier when I came back to look at replies (we're having a slow day at work, I am admittedly bored) I noticed that this thread seemed to actually have vanished for a little while. I wondered momentarily if I had done something to accidentally have it removed. Probably just some small glitchy things happening, I totally believe you that it didn't work the first time!

Since I'm an Etsy seller myself (but mostly I kept an Etsy shop while I was doing in-person sales so that I had somewhere for my business card to point to and show inventory, it's terribly out of date right now), I will warn you that selling on Etsy can be a pain sometimes. Trying to set up your tags and titles so that their SEO actually allows people to find your stuff is the most irritating thing. I can imagine that pet stuff would probably be pretty popular though, and the fact that you're already familiar with photography would help you out too. My last few orders have simply been from people I knew on Facebook. You might actually do well to try starting up a Facebook page first, add your friends you think might be interested, and grow from there. I know people who sell a surprising amount of product on Facebook (and you wouldn't be out any money like listing fees and sales fees with Etsy. Although Etsy shipping labels are pretty handy. There are pros and cons to everything!)

:lol: I believe it. Both my cats have had to have a substantial amount of teeth removed... that was like $500 each in our area. Thankfully their issues happened about a year apart.


----------



## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Oh, well, if I was really wanting to be frugal the first thing to go would be the horses, for pity's sake.Then the dogs. 

So, obviously, don't call me frugal.


----------



## RidingWithRuby (Apr 18, 2019)

@CopperLove Been researching different ways to sell and Etsy does look complicated, haha. 

Ugh, yes. Vets are just so dang expensive. Our old dog is almost 12, and she's had a bad back since she was about 7. It costs anywhere from $100 to $450 whenever it flares up. $100 covers a vet visit and some painkillers, maybe an injection. $450 is for when things get really bad. Thankfully it doesn't rear its ugly head much, just a few times a year. She's blissfully plump and happy most days.


----------



## CopperLove (Feb 14, 2019)

Avna said:


> Oh, well, if I was really wanting to be frugal the first thing to go would be the horses, for pity's sake.Then the dogs.
> 
> So, obviously, don't call me frugal.


Right? :razz: That's why I tend to use the word frugal very loosely... and really wonder about it. I definitely would not consider myself to be frugal personally even though I've tried to apply some new habits to different parts of my life. I especially see people on youtube whose channels focus on financial topics talk about being "frugal". My grandparents... I feel like they probably really knew what it meant to live a frugal life when they were younger. Mom even remembers from early childhood that they didn't have electricity in the house when other neighbors did. She's told me other stories as well, and I think my grandmother especially had a hard time of it back then. It makes me extremely grateful for where I am today, and for some of the things I pay for for the sake of convenience. There is definitely something to be said for money spent that brings you happiness, and I think horses and dogs and other pets definitely fall into that category for all of us.

My partner recently told me a story about a co-worker who bought, if I recall correctly, a $10,000 bedroom set because that was something she considered a necessity. The only furniture we have was bought used or is a hand-me down from when my parent's replaced their old trailer or from former roommates, so I know I don't really have a solid grip on what new furniture costs, but I STILL think that sounds like a lot more money than I ever want to spend on a set. Also, I know everyone is perfectly entitled to make their own decisions with their money, but knowing what my partner makes where they work in the same position and that she lives by herself, I somehow doubt $10,000 for a completely new bedroom set was a wise idea.

Anyway, then a few weeks later after she spent all this, she was talking to him about how she had gone to the vet to get flea treatment and de-wormer for her cat, found out that was a monthly thing for outdoor cats, and threw a fit because it was TOO EXPENSIVE. What? $10,000 for new furniture was a great idea but you can't afford the basic yearly care for your cat?


----------



## RidingWithRuby (Apr 18, 2019)

Whaaaat??? $10,000 would buy a nice used car! Heck, it would be a solid chunk towards a new car. I have never actually bought any new furniture for my room. I'm still using the dresser set and bed I had when I was 5, haha. The only things I've bought in recent years include two lamps and a squishy foam bed pad. 😛


----------



## CopperLove (Feb 14, 2019)

@RidingWithRuby Yeah. I'm pretty sure she put it on a payment plan. She is older than I am, I can understand wanting some nicer things as you go through different stages of your life. Maybe she is trying to build her dream home, I don't know. When mom retired, my parents replaced their old trailer and they bought new furniture. Some of it was used, but in good shape and new to them. Overall it wasn't a necessity for them, but I was glad that mom got some things she liked for their new home.

It was just the fact that this particular co-worker described it as an absolute necessity but then wouldn't get the stuff her cat needed that irritated me. That's the part I couldn't understand. Obviously not any of my business, just my thoughts.


----------



## Aprilswissmiss (May 12, 2019)

This thread has been really enjoyable to read through! I thought I was alone (within the horse world) when I try to keep my possessions simple!

I think this comes from my strange mental state rather than the idea of minimalism, but I try to keep all the stuff I'm living with at any point in time small enough to fit in a few boxes. By strange mental state, I mean it in that I hate knowing I have something in my possession but not being able to find it. So for that reason, if I don't need something or if it doesn't hold sentimental value, I get rid of it. It makes it so much easier for me to find things I truly do need (especially paperwork such as my passport or lease agreement).

In the past two years, I've moved from Maine to PA (college dorm), then PA back to Maine, then Maine back to PA (apartment). When I moved into my college dorm, I brought one full backpack, three or four medium-sized boxes, and my bike. All I needed was hygiene things, school supplies, bedding, and clothes (also some horse/riding equipment, of course). When I moved back to Maine, I was able to fit all of my possessions that I had lived with for the past 8/9 months into my Toyota Corolla, including my bike and fish tank (kept me sane when I didn't have any furry pets). Bike in the back seat, fish tank and fish in the passenger seat, and a couple boxes in the trunk. That felt great. I was astonished that most students "needed" entire trailers plus their own car plus their parents' car to get all their stuff back home. How did they even fit all of that in a dorm room?!

When I moved into my apartment, I had to take some furniture with me, but it was a very reasonable amount. Just my dresser, standing shelf, and fish tank stand. I was moving in with my boyfriend, and since he only lived about an hour away from the new apartment while I lived seven hours away, he agreed to get most of the furniture in before I made the trek down, such as bed, couch, TV stand, and dining room/kitchen table. Other than furniture, I was amazed at the difference in space we inhabited through our possessions. He filled an entire pantry with cooking supplies that we've maybe used once each, and his dresser is just overflowing with clothes. And he still has about twice as many clothes back at home. Meanwhile, my dresser is about 3/4 of the way full and those are all the clothes I own, and my parents are threatening to chuck all my stuff I left at home (just one desk and its contents) if I don't come back and get rid of it myself since they want to use my old bedroom for something new.

We're moving to a different place at the end of the month, and since it's already furnished, we're donating most of our furniture to charities before we leave. This includes the dresser I brought with me, which is/was my deceased grandmother's dresser. I sorta felt bad about this at first, since it does hold sentimental value. But then I remind myself that there are far better ways to remember her than through a material possession, and someone else will get much better use out of it. Where we're moving, my boyfriend and I will be sharing a closet with ample shelving to use as our "dresser." Has anyone else tried this?

Going back to my boyfriend's "need" for lots of possessions, he wants to bring a lot of our furniture with us, which I think is sorta crazy. We're discussing the limits of a single bedroom, and he's convinced he can fit our queen bed, his dresser, my standing shelf, his TV stand, and my desk in there (everything currently in the room is leaving). Right now, that same bedroom is barely fitting in a twin bed, a dresser, and a desk. And I'm just sitting here going... No? How?? Why?? We can make do with the bed, my desk, and his dresser. He keeps arguing that "we might as well make use of the space we have," but my argument is that if you fill that space with furniture, it's no longer useable space - and that's assuming it can all fit in. I'm the type of person that would much rather have open space and few possessions than more possessions/storage space and a tiny walkway to squeeze through it all every day. What's everyone else's take on this?


----------



## Aprilswissmiss (May 12, 2019)

Sorry for writing an essay :rofl: Since I'm moving very soon, minimalism has been on my mind a lot!


----------



## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Aprilswissmiss said:


> Sorry for writing an essay :rofl: Since I'm moving very soon, minimalism has been on my mind a lot!


Nothing like moving to make you re-examine your possessions.

When I left home at 16 I lived out of a backpack for six or seven years. Then it was a backpack and a box of books. Then that and a box of "treasures". Gradually I moved less and less often and gathered more and more stuff. My last house I lived in for nearly 40 years (if I include the house next door that I lived in for nine). Believe, stuff builds up! Especially if your husband builds and repairs everything (needs a shop full of tools and building materials and spare parts aka 'junk') and you have goats and chickens and dogs and horses and occasionally ducks, geese, and sheep. Oh, and all the stuff your kids left behind but don't want you to throw out.

We moved 3000 miles away a year and a half ago. That did winnow things down ... but from an 1100 square foot house to a 3500 square foot house with three attics and a full basement, a sugar house, a stable, a goat shed, a tool shed, and a two car garage. Also 25 acres of woods and pastures. It's been interesting.

There's stuff that catches your fancy -- yet another pair of sandals, a blingy bridle, a set of tea cups even though you never drink tea -- and then there are things like good steel buckets, a brush hog for your tractor, a subzero parka for chores when it is ... subzero. A different class of objects.


----------



## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

Having horses all my adult life has forced me to be frugal with everything I do. I want good value for my money or I don't do it. 
I shop carefully and almost all my clothing has come from the Thrift Shops, you can find some really good quality clothing there if you shop carefully, I still do even tho' now I don't have to watch my pennies.
Also my clothes last me forever, still wearing things 30 or so years later, and when my Mother passed away I was the only one who fit all her shoes so I have a life time supply of good shoes. I have been wearing the same riding outfits for showing for many years, I only wear them on show days and they will probably do for the rest of my life.

I save and reuse most of the disposable containers that I get, I don't throw out much and if I do it's not much good for anything by then. On garbage day when I drive down the road and see two or three bags sitting there and we only put one out every couple of weeks.
I don't shop just for the sake of shopping and buying (I hate shopping) so I only do so when I really need something. I found that if you go to a Mall etc and just go in for a short time you will end up buying something, probably don't really need it, so I just don't go. 

My furniture is old but still usable to I see no reason to replace it, it's just getting really comfortable and if we had expensive new things I wouldn't want us coming in in old work clothes and sitting on "my showpieces"

I never smoked, rather put the money to my horse and I don't drink much so that money went to more important horsey stuff.


----------



## Aprilswissmiss (May 12, 2019)

Avna said:


> We moved 3000 miles away a year and a half ago. That did winnow things down ... but from an 1100 square foot house to a 3500 square foot house with three attics and a full basement, a sugar house, a stable, a goat shed, a tool shed, and a two car garage. Also 25 acres of woods and pastures. It's been interesting.


This is one of the many reasons I think when I'm older and (hopefully) have enough money for a house, I'd want something small - just a small house and a small stable, and a bit of land. With space comes an excuse to get more things! I grew up in a relatively small one-story house (plus a basement) and I've always felt sort of overwhelmed by the possessions in larger houses whenever I visited friends or family. The amount of times I've heard "Yeah, I did have that [insert somewhat expensive item], but I lost it somewhere in the house a few years ago" makes my brain hurt. Sometimes I sit and think about the thousands of dollars worth of "lost" items in a single house that must be beneath beds and in cabinets and in the back of closets, and think about all that wasted money and wasted space. It would drive me crazy! Plus, I really, really dislike the hassle of walking _around_ things rather than through an open space. Excessive furniture just seems like a good way to convince you to stop weaving through it all and instead sit down... Which, as an active person, I don't like lol.

Single story house with an open floorpan and a lot of natural light... That's the dream! It helps that I don't want kids, and neither does my boyfriend if it counts for anything. All that time and money can instead go towards my/our pets, most of which would be out in a stable and pasture anyway ;-) It helps that we're both tracking pre-vet! Reduced vet bills!!


----------



## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Great topic, @CopperLove, and straight away I wanted a "love" button for what you wrote, and what @Avna wrote straight after you. I'm closer to Avna's age than yours, and her thoughts on this whole mess we're in are very similar to mine (and naturalist and documentary presenter David Attenborough, who's nearly twice that age, basically thinks we are doomed); but you're a young person, and to see your enthusiasm and willingness to be different, and to make a difference, is very heartening for me, and I think positive change happens mostly from the bottom up, rather than the top down.

Brett and I are members of the Australian _Grass Roots_ community, which is loosely based around a magazine created in 1973 to give voice to and connect the Australian hippie and DIY/alternative lifestyle communities, and is now a well-loved alternative cultural institution in this country. I've also been writing for the magazine since just after our own "tree change" in 2010. We found it really hard to live lives that weren't ecologically destructive when living in suburbia and doing fulltime professional jobs. You could do some things, like reduce, reuse, recycle, drive a small fuel-efficient car, take public transport, not buy truckloads of stuff you don't need, buy second-hand, DIY, etc, quite easily. But, the entire system is just so rotten to the core - for example, you put things in the recycling, and then find out that most of it isn't actually recycled anyway (in Australia - because lots of recyclable items aren't recycled by the local governments that charge you recycling fees and provide you with recycling bins but then put a lot of it in landfill anyway, and in some places, bribes were given by industry to bury recyclables like glass so recovered materials wouldn't compete with newly made ones and drive their price down, etc, and now China is rightly saying we should stop sending our recyclables to them and process them ourselves, so a whole lot of stuff is getting stockpiled while ineffectual people supposed to be running this country are scratching their heads).

It's such an obstacle course to be a mindful consumer in a country where you actually have no idea under what environmental and social conditions goods are produced - and labelling laws are weak - unless you know the actual makers of the items, and even then you have to trust they're not lying to you. In so many ways you are so locked into a sinking ship, and it's hard to get away from it. Avoiding wasteful packaging is difficult as it's so ubiquitous; ditto with built-in obsolescence in modern consumer items - things are designed to fail shortly after the warranty expires, so you're encouraged to buy a replacement. Repairing isn't as easy as it was; many items are made with cases you can't get into, spare parts often aren't available etc - when I was a child, electrical items were designed to last, and to be reparable, but now, economics has determined that more money is made when people are forced to buy low-quality things with built-in obsolescence. We try to find items that last, and can be repaired, but it's an obstacle course - the Internet is helpful there these days, though.

There are many many more points... I'll stop ranting now, or my book will be longer than yours. ;-)

When we tree changed, we saw an opportunity to make a more radical change to our lives, and to reduce our ecological footprints more. We designed and built our own eco-house on a modest budget that was smaller than the average Australian building budget. It took us five years, but now we live in a house that naturally stays in comfortable temperature ranges through passive-solar, superinsulated design with appropriate thermal mass, we're independent for electricity (via solar panels and storage batteries) and water (rainwater tank, solar bore), and we recycle all nutrients that enter our house as food into food-producing systems (waterless compost toilets make organic fruit tree fertiliser etc). We grow our own heirloom F&V from seeds, and are now around 50% self-sufficient for food, having never gardened before our tree change. If I kept a milking cow and we killed our own beef cattle (currently they all go to market), we'd do better still, and that's on the possibilities list for the future.

The only externally sourced energy that goes in our house is a camping bottle of gas for cooking, about every two months. This costs us under $150 a year, and is the sum total of the utilities costs for our house. We have a small wood heater with cooktop, oven and water-boosting ******* that gives the solar rooftop water heater a bit of a hand on cloudy winter days. It's on around two evenings a week in winter, and the wood comes from firebreak clean-ups of fallen branches, in our 50ha on-farm bushland conservation reserve.

We've now successfully downshifted from two fulltime professional salaries, to one part-time salary and a bit of freelancing. We've got the equivalent of one fulltime position freed up so we have more time to work for ourselves, via food-growing, managing bee hives and a small herd of beef cattle, more ambitious DIY projects than when we were both in the rat race, and establishing a farmstay to eventually replace much of the part-time salary. We're also in a position to steward biodiversity conservation on our own farm, and to implement sustainable farming practices, which we've been doing from the start - planting shelter belts, tree fodder, not overstocking, using organic growing principles and permaculture design, etc.

But most of all, downshifting has given us a less stressful life, and more time for each other and the things we consider important.

Photo albums of all that here: Red Moon Sanctuary

And we totally share your attraction to books - we literally live in a library now!  Books are our luxury. We also buy good-quality chocolate, and have stationery fetishes. :Angel:


----------



## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Aprilswissmiss said:


> This is one of the many reasons I think when I'm older and (hopefully) have enough money for a house, I'd want something small - just a small house and a small stable, and a bit of land. With space comes an excuse to get more things! I grew up in a relatively small one-story house (plus a basement) and I've always felt sort of overwhelmed by the possessions in larger houses whenever I visited friends or family. The amount of times I've heard "Yeah, I did have that [insert somewhat expensive item], but I lost it somewhere in the house a few years ago" makes my brain hurt. Sometimes I sit and think about the thousands of dollars worth of "lost" items in a single house that must be beneath beds and in cabinets and in the back of closets, and think about all that wasted money and wasted space. It would drive me crazy! Plus, I really, really dislike the hassle of walking _around_ things rather than through an open space. Excessive furniture just seems like a good way to convince you to stop weaving through it all and instead sit down... Which, as an active person, I don't like lol.
> 
> Single story house with an open floorpan and a lot of natural light... That's the dream! It helps that I don't want kids, and neither does my boyfriend if it counts for anything. All that time and money can instead go towards my/our pets, most of which would be out in a stable and pasture anyway ;-) It helps that we're both tracking pre-vet! Reduced vet bills!!


We built our first house ourselves (just the two of us, no contractors just a few friends helping), and we had that small eco house you want. But we could only afford a steep hill in a redwood forest (200' evergreens all around, ie dark), in California. We wanted another one of those little eco houses when we moved to Massachusetts -- buy, build, or have built -- but we couldn't find good land to put it on here, either. So we ended up with a 230 year old farmhouse instead. Not insulated worth a darn either. We did change that, and have many more ideas to decrease our carbon footprint, but the stable, the pastures, the trails, the deep quiet and the beauty, sold us. We don't regret it.


----------



## Spanish Rider (May 1, 2014)

I don't know if I would consider myself minimalist, but I am definitely frugal. But, no-frills country living does make it easier to be frugal, too, doesn't it? I mean, in our village, there is no place to get a haircut, have your nails done, buy a designer coffee or a new pair of shoes. So, impulse buying is completely eliminated. And, when you _do_ buy something, it is most likely something you really need and have been thinking about for a while, because you have to drive quite a ways to get it.

Today, for example, I am off to the city for lunch out with my son because it is his last day of exams. Later, we'll go get myself 2 new laundry baskets for my new laundry room that I have been needing for a long time. Isn't that exciting? Well, for me it is.

I have also recently bought on amazon those reusable produce bags to take to the supermarket, instead of using plastic bags. Several people have already asked me where I bought them, so I think people are becoming very aware of the evils of plastic.

Which brings me to another point… bottled drinking water. In our dry climate, the water often comes out of the tap yellow and smells like sludge from the bottom of the reservoir in the summer. So, yes, we use bottled water. Please don't hate me! But please help me find a smarter solution (did the Brita thing - still not potable).


----------



## IRideaHippogriff (Jul 19, 2016)

This thread definitely caught my eye because I consider myself a very frugal person - I got the habit from being raised by a single mother with a teacher's salary. I read the thread so far, though, and I probably couldn't be considered as minimalist or eco-friendly as some, though I definitely try! We live in the suburbs in New England, so it's a bit difficult to be as eco-conscious as I'd like.

I'll share some of the things that I think make me frugal:

I really avoid buying things as much as I can. I wear clothes and shoes until they're really worn out (the same few outfits). I don't buy/wear jewelry. 
Anything I do buy I always buy the cheapest version (online, I always sort search results from lowest cost...)
I lost a lot of weight recently and had to replace most of my wardrobe, and discovered ThredUP for the first time, so all new outfits I got were used and I managed to probably spend about 1/5th to 1/10th what I would have spent buying new.
I had to buy a new car last summer after my 10 year old Altima with almost 200k miles stopped accelerating on the highway. After discovering Certified Pre-Owned I will never buy a new car - cars depreciate by more than half within 3 years. 
I bought a Chevy Volt that feels new, and I almost never need to buy gas any more so I cut out my fuel expense. My work has an EV charger so I barely have to pay extra on my electric bill at home to charge.
My husband does any DIY projects around our house himself - he has rather advanced carpentry skills from his father.
I buy all of my groceries from Aldi. This cut my grocery bill in half.
I don't buy drinks - we only drink tap water.

Things that aren't as frugal:

I love to travel. The way I travel is frugal compared to the way many travel (very affordable hotels or AirBNBs, I do all the planning myself to cut-out travel agents, cheapest flights possible even if it means layovers), but I recognize travelling in and of itself isn't frugal.
My dog. Up until last month he was going to doggie daycare 2 times a week at $200 a month...Ouch. (I'm trying to turn this more frugal by seeing how he does at home during the day instead.) I also have health insurance on him, which I consider a significant monthly expense.
My husband and I bought a modest house (3 small bedrooms, 1.5 bath) and while we can completely afford the mortgage, it about doubled our monthly expenses. Taxes in our area and having to get PMI due to a low down-payment doubled what the mortgage itself is. For at least the next 5-10 years we will owe more on the house than we could sell it for, which is a really awful feeling to be honest. I love our house though, as it made it possible to get my dog.


----------



## CopperLove (Feb 14, 2019)

(Sorry, lots of people tagged in this as I respond. I've really enjoyed reading everyone's posts!)
@Aprilswissmiss I kept an aquarium in college also! (A 10 gallon, the biggest we were allowed.) I have made so many moves with an emptied tank and a cooler full of fish! :lol: My family’s home was only about an hour and 15 minutes away from where I went to college, but after my first year moving in and out I learned quickly that I didn’t need as much stuff as a lot of my peers wanted in a dorm. I had a falling out with my roommate my Sophomore year for partly that reason (although there were many other isses). She would always bring SO MUCH stuff. More stuff than any person in the room (we shared a 4 person dorm) and always had to have help getting it all back home (She was from Maryland, we went to school in KY.) That particular semester my aquarium had crashed, and she kept asking why I didn’t just take it home if it didn’t have fish in it. So I finally did, and came back after that weekend and she had moved and taken my desk because I “didn’t need it”! I ended up getting a friend to help me and crammed everything I owned in that room into my Nissan Altima and I left. A few belongings didn’t make it… I was so mad and ready to get out of there I trashed what wouldn’t fit in my car (which obviously taught me I did not need something I was willing to trash in a bad situation.) After that I started thinking a lot more about what I lived with. Junior and Senior year I brought even less (I also hid my pet rats in my wardrobe closet, so that kept me from keeping too many clothes at that time as well :rofl: ) I definitely have a lot more stuff now, but I still have list in my head of what I’d pack up in my car and leave with if I had to if something bad happened.

My boyfriend and I share the closet in our bedroom, a single dresser, and then he has some stuff in one of those small set of rolling plastic shelves that I’ve had since I lived in the dorm. But we do have another closet that we have heavy winter clothes boxed away or hanging in. I don’t think we would have that much clothing if our parents didn’t give us clothing occasionally (which I appreciate, but sometimes it’s really more than we need. I end up donating some of what mom gives me.) Sharing the space works out fine for us. The dresser is a bit overflowing but he crams some things in there that probably should go elsewhere… there are some shipping materials, tools, etc. I agree with you about wanting space to move around in, furniture you don't need is just a waste of space and peace of mind.
@SueC You were one of the members I was thinking of I’d seen talk about what they’ve done with their land and their home before :lol: I went to college with the man who manages local recycling, and I know he is really concerned about the environment and is always trying to learn more, so I trust that the right thing is being done with recycling locally but honestly there is a lot that they can’t take here, including glass. After it leaves here for wherever else it has to go though, who knows? I’ve heard people say similar about the US, that a lot of recycling actually just goes to the landfill. It’s also hard to find a place locally to take electronics to be recycled when one has pooped out and you can’t repair it. Kentucky really is a beautiful place, despite the stereotypes you’ll hear. The land that used to be my grandfather’s farm is actually in my name, and I intend to hang on to that as long as I can despite the fact that I’ll probably never live there just so no one will be able to come in and cut the trees down. But as you drive up that mountain and are looking at the beautiful forest… there are still people who throw their furniture and electronic trash like TV’s, washers, etc. out into the woods and valleys. :sad: It’s hard to look at.

I will have to do a lot more research before I ever look at buying or building a home and the property it’s on. Building a home seems so far out of reach right now, but I suppose if I planned carefully, building a moderate home with a few tweaks might be as economical as buying one. Many of the houses I’ve seen on properties that would suit my dream home are either very old and need a lot of work, but are small like the kind of size I would want, OR they are the big old, poorly insulated farm houses like Avna mentions (probably not 230 years old here, but the kind of houses that people who had big families and farmed actually used, but are big and boxy and have fallen into dis-repair from not being used and cared for.)

One reason that buying or building a house seems so daunting to me, is that my parents lived in a trailer for as long as I’ve been alive. When mom retired, they simply moved the old trailer, bought a new one, and placed it where the old one sat. I’ve had former friends from other states who didn’t understand the phenomenon of so many people in this area living in trailers. But it’s pretty common here. It’s a cheap payment to own. But they don’t hold their value over time like a well-kept house does, can be more dangerous in bad weather, and often aren’t well-insulated. It’s an investment that won’t last but for a lot of families it’s all they can afford and all they know. We currently rent a trailer. It’s definitely not my dream home but it’s small, cheap and pretty easy to heat and cool because it is so small and I feel like living there really is helping us save for whatever we decide we want to do in the future.



Avna said:


> We built our first house ourselves (just the two of us, no contractors just a few friends helping), and we had that small eco house you want. But we could only afford a steep hill in a redwood forest (200' evergreens all around, ie dark), in California. We wanted another one of those little eco houses when we moved to Massachusetts -- buy, build, or have built -- but we couldn't find good land to put it on here, either. So we ended up with a 230 year old farmhouse instead. Not insulated worth a darn either.


I work for a community/technical college, and I am able to take a free class per semester if I want to, as long as I can work out a schedule with my supervisor to make up any hours I might miss during work. I REALLY want to take some carpentry classes, learn to use the tools and build and just things I don’t know how to do… my dad thinks this is a horrible idea, as I will obviously “go and cut some fingers off with a saw.” I wonder how he thinks riding is a much safer hobby for me? :lol: I am in awe of people who can just... up and build a house!



Spanish Rider said:


> Which brings me to another point… bottled drinking water. In our dry climate, the water often comes out of the tap yellow and smells like sludge from the bottom of the reservoir in the summer. So, yes, we use bottled water. Please don't hate me! But please help me find a smarter solution (did the Brita thing - still not potable).


There are definitely situations where one simply cannot drink the water out of the tap. Before a water line was run to mom and dad’s property, we had to haul water to a cistern, which I’m guessing now looking back on it that it just wasn’t built in a great place. When it would rain heavily, the water would run brown with dirt that had washed over into the cistern. I even remember one time as a child that I ran a bath and there were earth worms chopped up in it!

I don’t know if you’ve heard of what has happened in Flint Michigan in the U.S. but they’ve not had clean drinking water from the tap for… I don’t even know how long. I feel like it’s been over a year now. It’s a ridiculous situation that made the news for a while, but it didn’t do much to help fix the problem.

Unfortunately I know nothing about filtering your own water :sad: Maybe someone else will have an idea.
@IRideaHippogriff That sounds like a fantastic car! Brand new cars will also not be in our future for a very long time, if at all. I currently drive an Altima that's about 12 years old now and I intend to hang onto it as long as possible. I don't know if I'll be able to get such an economical on gas option when it's gone though :sad: Living in a rural area, needing to haul hay, horse, etc. When dad is gone (as bad as I hate to think about anything happening to my parents) there won't be anyone to help with that kind of thing unless we own our own truck.

I think despite my dad's wishes, I am still going to sign up for carpentry courses where I work. I would love to be the kind of person who knows how to build and fix my own stuff. Travel is also on my list of things that I value that I would like to save for. I love my home, but I want to see more places!


----------



## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

I used to consider myself frugal, but these days the money is just getting spent. Mostly because of the horses....different tack, horse trailer, feed, shoes, show fees......I don't actually spend a whole lot of money on myself, but I would definitely NOT put myself in the minimalist category of living. My b/f I would actually consider a bit of a hoarder (we have a shop and he works on his cars - so he keeps any little piece of scrap metal that could be used). 

Some areas in which I TRY to be frugal:
- I don't pay for satellite - all our tv watching is either movies or from Netflix. However, with all the movies I've ordered from Amazon I probably might as well have paid for satellite. 

- I try very hard not to spend money on 'extras' when grocery shopping. 

- We plant our own veggie/fruit garden. So at least during the summer months we have fresh produce at our finger tips. 

- I am a big reader. I ended getting a Kobo for Christmas one year so I just load it with the cheapy $1-$5 books on Kobo. 

- I try very hard to buy most of my horse tack used. Now that I'm getting into showing I am also going to buy my show clothes used as much as possible. 

- I am a huge stickler on not wasting resources. Lights NEED to be turned off when no one is in a room. I am crazy OCD over this. I also try not to use my dryer as much as possible and will hang laundry on the line as much as possible (weather permitting). 

- When I have time I make my own buns/bread and baking. I also hardly NEVER eat out. 

I know where I could cut costs, but just choose not to. I am a long distance runner, so the numerous pairs of running shoes I have that look almost brand new would make someone think I was nuts. But as soon as any of the cushioning starts to break down I buy a new pair and they run me around $150/pair. I buy a new pair every 3-4 months. That is one place I will not cheap out on. I also like having wine in the house - so I do spend copious amounts of money on wine. I don't really drink a whole lot of it, but I like to have full wine racks. 

There are other things - but honestly, 90% of it is related to owning horses and maintaining my vehicles to haul my horses.


----------



## CopperLove (Feb 14, 2019)

cbar said:


> I know where I could cut costs, but just choose not to. I am a long distance runner, so the numerous pairs of running shoes I have that look almost brand new would make someone think I was nuts. But as soon as any of the cushioning starts to break down I buy a new pair and they run me around $150/pair. I buy a new pair every 3-4 months. That is one place I will not cheap out on. I also like having wine in the house - so I do spend copious amounts of money on wine. I don't really drink a whole lot of it, but I like to have full wine racks.


Honestly, the whole point, for me, of saving money in certain areas is just so I can put it toward other things. We could rent forever if we wanted to, but I would really like to OWN a home in our area. I could do without my horse... I'm such a beginner. I'm still taking lessons. But I don't WANT to do without her... I already have her, I don't want to give that up even if we both need some work. That's a choice, something that makes me content. It felt so good driving out to the ranch yesterday to see her (just started boarding her here vs. keeping on the family's property so she is closer, we can get some training together and I can work with her more frequently.) It felt like coming home, even though their property obviously isn't my home. I do know I need to save for retirement, emergencies, etc. But I think mainly it's a decision to devote money to the things I really want to do vs. the things I don't care about as much. It can be surprisingly hard to weed those things out though, the things that eat up my time and money that don't really matter. Running is important to you, so it makes sense that you invest in the equipment which is also an investment in the health of your feet!


----------



## RidingWithRuby (Apr 18, 2019)

Speaking of old cars....

The family cars are a '91 Mitsubishi and a '98 GMC Safari. They're not pretty, they're not the cleanest, but they're older than I am and they still work.


----------



## Spanish Rider (May 1, 2014)

> We could rent forever if we wanted to, but I would really like to OWN a home in our area.


I am sure that I am quite older than you, but for me this was essential (perhaps a sign of my time). I was raised that renting for more than a couple of years is just throwing your money away. So, I told my then-fiancé, now-DH, that I was not going to get married to live in a rental property. He took me seriously, and before there was even a ring, there was a down payment on a teeny-tiny condo in the city where we were working at the time (Madrid). [In fact, we never even bought an engagement ring because I preferred something small, simple and sentimental, which was my great-grandmother's ring.]

When we bought the condo, I was 24. By my mid-forties, it was paid off. Rental on that property now pays for the mortgage on the home we built in the country, so we are basically living for free (...knocking on wood as I write this). Something to consider, as it is the only way we can pay for our kids' college educations in the US.


----------



## whisperbaby22 (Jan 25, 2013)

This may not fall into the category of frugal, but I drive old cars. The cost of a new car is not just the price, it is the whole industry, the setting up, changing things, cost. The fuel mileage is bad on my cars, but insurance and repairs are cheap. And what happens to all these cast off cars. They just end up in a junk heap. Is it better to get a car that gets better mileage, or just repair the car you have? Now obviously living here in So Cal you can keep driving old cars. Some climates that may not be possible.

But going back to the beginning, cars were welcomed in cities because of the amount of manure. Now cars are polluting the planet. Now we are told to buy a car that gets better mileage. What's next? We just keep casting off and buying new cars? How about my plan of keeping my old cars.


----------



## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

CopperLove said:


> <snip>
> I will have to do a lot more research before I ever look at buying or building a home and the property it’s on. Building a home seems so far out of reach right now, but I suppose if I planned carefully, building a moderate home with a few tweaks might be as economical as buying one. <snip> I am in awe of people who can just... up and build a house!


Just want to say: building your own house is a LOT cheaper than buying one. If you truly build it _yourself_ -- when most people say "we built a house" they mean they hired someone to build it. 

But. Building a house is far too difficult for most people. You have to be willing to learn many trades (plumbing, electrical, foundation work, construction carpentry, sheetrock, flooring, tile, finish carpentry etc etc). You also have to be able to work like dogs for, usually, a few *years* -- sunup to sundown. For a typical contractor built house, trained crews come in, do their work in a few days or weeks and then the next crews come in after them. There might be more than a dozen skilled people working on site. Contrast that with ... just you, who have never done this before. Then there is how to support yourself while you build your house. And how to pay for the materials -- a contractor house has a construction loan on it, high interest (high risk), flipped to a regular mortgage when the permits are all signed off. So, usually a few months of high-interest loan at most. But you -- much slower than a contractor's crew -- are going to be carrying that loan for much much longer.

Oh, and the stress! The typical owner-builder couple (who actually completes their house) gets divorced in the process. It is SO high stress (see: high interest loan). 

We were successful because 1. we were living right next door for free in my parents' vacation house. 2. My husband already was a plumber and electrician and had done a lot of rough carpentry. He loves to build things and had done it all his life. 3. I had drawing skills so I taught myself drafting and designed and drew the plans. Pages of them. 4. My aunt sold us the lot for a quarter of its market value. 5. We had saved $60K by not paying rent, which is what we built the house for. 6. My husband negotiated with his workplace to go on part time so he could build the house. 6. I am super organized so I was able to figure out all the hoops the county wanted us to jump through, pulled all the permits, made up all the materials lists and ordered all the lumber etc. 

We still fought a lot. We were young and strong and full of drive to do it, with a lot of the necessary skills and the cash on hand. It was a simply enormous amount of work. More than I can begin to describe. 

We built it in 1982 for $60K, and sold it 2018 for $850K. 1100 square feet. Two beds one bath. That was another astonishing piece of luck, the insane California real estate market. That's what we bought our farm with.


----------



## lostastirrup (Jan 6, 2015)

On Wednesday I hauled my horse in my little single horse straight load toaster. Bought for $500, built in 1970, it does just fine. I unloaded and the owner of the property I was riding on looked at my little trailer and said it was a good little trailer for a good little horse. I said "I love it, it means freedom." Which I got to thinking about why I felt so strongly about my tiny trailer, and came to the conclusion that I bought the trailer for the same reason I went to engineering school, and the same reason I live in a studio apartment and sew and repair and refurbish and make do. It's the reason my phone's don't get thrown out when they crack, it's the reason not being able to open half my car doors is not a problem. It's the reason I sat on my porch and picked at the spinach in the pots for breakfast before crawling back through the window and leaving for work. My life is inexpensive so that I have time and money to invest in what actually matters and it is so so so very freeing. 

It boils down to a Wendell Berry poem I posted on my journal around Christmas. 
I think we have been wired to "run the rat race" and by our way of living to force others to do so also. But if I can step back a little and keep stepping back as I get older, and teach my children (future, none presently thank you very much) to do the same, and hope that somewhere in other communities someone else is doing the same things and ever so slowly we can start to set things on a better path. 

They have since moved, but my pastors family lives out of their garden (they haven't yet established a new one) and I sat at the kitchen table and the youngest was sent out to get thyme from the garden. She did not come back with thyme and was quickly set straight by her older sister who exclaimed "what kind of five year old doesn't know what thyme looks like?!?" And I could only think, if I can raise kids that think it's ridiculous to not know the name of a tiny leaf by age five I will do well. Nowadays I get hand-me downs from their 14yo so if you're looking to be frugal it helps to start with burning your pride at the stake :|

_.Manifesto: The Mad Farmer Liberation Front
by Wendell Berry

Love the quick profit, the annual raise,
vacation with pay. Want more
of everything ready-made. Be afraid
to know your neighbors and to die.
And you will have a window in your head.
Not even your future will be a mystery
any more. Your mind will be punched in a card
and shut away in a little drawer.
When they want you to buy something
they will call you. When they want you
to die for profit they will let you know.

So, friends, every day do something
that won’t compute. Love the Lord.
Love the world. Work for nothing.
Take all that you have and be poor.
Love someone who does not deserve it.
Denounce the government and embrace
the flag. Hope to live in that free
republic for which it stands.
Give your approval to all you cannot
understand. Praise ignorance, for what man
has not encountered he has not destroyed.

Ask the questions that have no answers.
Invest in the millennium. Plant sequoias.
Say that your main crop is the forest
that you did not plant,
that you will not live to harvest.
Say that the leaves are harvested
when they have rotted into the mold.
Call that profit. Prophesy such returns.

Put your faith in the two inches of humus
that will build under the trees
every thousand years.
Listen to carrion – put your ear
close, and hear the faint chattering
of the songs that are to come.
Expect the end of the world. Laugh.
Laughter is immeasurable. Be joyful
though you have considered all the facts.
So long as women do not go cheap
for power, please women more than men.
Ask yourself: Will this satisfy
a woman satisfied to bear a child?
Will this disturb the sleep
of a woman near to giving birth?

Go with your love to the fields.
Lie down in the shade. Rest your head
in her lap. Swear allegiance
to what is nighest your thoughts.
As soon as the generals and the politicos
can predict the motions of your mind,
lose it. Leave it as a sign
to mark the false trail, the way
you didn’t go. Be like the fox
who makes more tracks than necessary,
some in the wrong direction.
Practice resurrection. _

And since @SueC is on this thread I think I better add some music. I like this one, and I think it relates to what we're all trying to avoid:


----------



## CopperLove (Feb 14, 2019)

Spanish Rider said:


> I was raised that renting for more than a couple of years is just throwing your money away.


I think there is a calculation you can do based on the area you live in to determine whether renting or buying is more financially economical, depending on the number of years you'll be living there. At this point I've lived where I do long enough it probably would have been better to purchase, but there are other factors that kept me from purchasing. Until 4 or 5 months ago when I started this new job, I had no idea where I would end up settling for work. I went to school for graphic design, currently work in PR and marketing. So there was a big chance we were going to have to move out of the area. There's not a lot of opportunity to do either of those things here. I was extremely fortunate to land the job that I did, and instead of requiring me to be on the main campus in a city an hour away, they gave me the option of having my main office at the local campus. So we didn't have to move. Had I known that I was going to find work in the same town I went school in for 6 years... Well, hindsight is 20/20.

I go back and forth now between wanting to buy a place and waiting/saving money for a bigger down-payment for a future place. My partner, (he's not my fiance technically but we've been together so long "boyfriend" just feels like the wrong word to describe where we are at in planning our future) he went to college a few years but never finished. For the last 2 years as I finished school, worked part-time, and hunted a full time job, he's worked locally full time at a factory. He makes only slightly less than I do at my new job, not bad at all as far as local jobs go. But he's thinking about getting a certification from the technical college I work at so that he could do something different, broaden his skillset, etc. We both agree that could provide better job security in the future and open some doors for him. Once we're married he would qualify to use the free credit hours I get from working there. We're still trying to decide how soon he's going to do that and what he wants to take courses in. That would also likely determine where we go in the future, especially since with my job I think they would be flexible with campus location if we wanted to move closer to a different campus.

The place we rent is $500/month (water and sewage bill is included in that, we pay electric), we don't pay extra for our pets, don't have to own the tools for or pay someone to do our lawn work since the landlord takes care of it, and the landlord is very good about taking care of anything that needs fixed. So I think for now, we are still saving money by doing this as we don't have to pay out of pocket to repair anything. But on the flip side, if we owned it we could sell it if we moved. If I happened to see the right place for sale it might change my mind. I'm a worrier and a planner, so it's hard for me to decide :-| 

@whisperbaby22 I think cars are a bit like everything else today... we as a society tend to consume consume consume, the newest, the best, etc. without considering where the "old" stuff goes. (Cell phones are another good example.) I definitely plan to hold onto the car I have until it doesn't work anymore. For me, because I don't know how to do ANY of my own repairs, which is another thing I wish I knew more about, there will come a time when the cost of repairs won't be worth keeping the car and it will make more sense for me to purchase another used car. Only then to I plan to switch cars. Partner's car is older than mine, he purchased it from an older gentleman and there were a couple of things that happened that needed work done. But he will also probably drive that one until it just stops going.



Avna said:


> Just want to say: building your own house is a LOT cheaper than buying one. If you truly build it _yourself_ -- when most people say "we built a house" they mean they hired someone to build it.


Oh I definitely don't think I could EVER build a house myself. When I say "build a house" I definitely mean I'd have to hire help. I want to take the carpentry classes for other reasons... it would be nice to be able to repair and build some things myself, not on the scale of a house. My aunt's fiance did the work on the inside of the building we use as a barn. It's far from perfect, but it works and he just took the materials and did all that. Built stalls, put another doorway in, etc. I'd like to be able to do some of that stuff for myself in the future.

@lostastirrup You know, I don't think I even knew that single-horse trailers existed. The smallest I've ever seen is a 2-horse. Thank you for sharing, I love that poem  A very appropriate song also :rofl: That's how I felt when I quit my first full-time job I hated and worked a bunch of freelance and full time stuff... it almost feels like a sell-out to settle into a traditional office-type job but honestly, it was very stressful to me balancing my freelance/part time schedule. It feels better for me, at least for now, to go to work a set number of hours and then come home and lay it down and just do what I want. I am still trying to learn how to take things off my plate and NOT put them back on. I also feel good about the place I work for because I feel like my education made such a big difference in my life, and I feel like we are really trying to provide that to students. Yeah we all want to keep our jobs, but I work with tons of people who really care about the students and that's refreshing to see. At my first full-time job, my boss put up a front like he cared about a lot of things (he was a preacher at a local church), but after working for him I figured out quickly the god he really worshiped was his money.


----------



## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

I :loveshower: that poem, @lostastirrup . Thank you for bringing that into my life. Here's one you might like, with related themes. It's by Australian poet Judith Wright, and was written at a time when ecofeminism was a buzzword.


_*EVE TO HER DAUGHTERS*
Judith Wright, 1966

It was not I who began it.
Turned out into draughty caves,
hungry so often, having to work for our bread,
hearing the children whining,
I was nevertheless not unhappy.
Where Adam went I was fairly contented to go.
I adapted myself to the punishment: it was my life.

But Adam, you know ….. !
He kept on brooding over the insult,
over the trick They had played on us, over the scolding.
He had discovered a flaw in himself
and he had to make up for it.

Outside Eden the earth was imperfect,
the seasons changed, the game was fleet-footed,
he had to work for our living, and he didn’t like it.
He even complained of my cooking
(it was hard to compete with Heaven).

So he set to work.
The earth must be made a new Eden
with central heating, domesticated animals,
mechanical harvesters, combustion engines,
escalators, refrigerators,
and modern means of communication
and multiplied opportunities for safe investment
and higher education for Abel and Cain
and the rest of the family.
You can see how his pride had been hurt.

In the process he had to unravel everything,
because he believed that mechanism
was the whole secret – he was always mechanical-minded.
He got to the very inside of the whole machine
exclaiming as he went, So that is how it works!
And now that I know how it works, why, I must have invented it.
As for God and the Other, they cannot be demonstrated,
And what cannot be demonstrated
doesn’t exist.
You see, he had always been jealous.

Yes, he got to the centre
where nothing at all can be demonstrated.
And clearly he doesn’t exist; but he refuses
to accept the conclusion.
You see, he was always an egotist.

It was warmer than this in the cave;
There was none of this fall-out.
I would suggest, for the sake of the children,
that it’s time you took over.

But you are my daughters, you inherit my own faults of character;
you are submissive, following Adam
even beyond existence.
Faults of character have their own logic
and it always works out.
I observed this with Abel and Cain.

Perhaps the whole elaborate fable
right from the beginning
is meant to demonstrate this; perhaps it’s the whole secret.
Perhaps nothing exists but our faults?
At least they can be demonstrated.

But it’s useless to make
such a suggestion to Adam.
He has turned himself into God,
who is faultless, and doesn’t exist.
_


I think this is an amusing poem which makes some interesting points - but I also think that environmentally friendly is not the sole property of women. One of the reasons I fell in love with Brett is that he was even more environmentally responsible and frugal than I had managed to become, and with a partner like that, it's much easier to become better at living with a smaller footprint. (But there are many reasons I fell in love with him, and why I love him even more now, after 11 years of marriage. His heart is in the right place, he's creative, he's clever, he's funny, he's warm and compassionate, he thinks independently and outside the box. He can climb a mountain better than anyone else I've ever hiked with, and his voice and telephone manner still melt me. He's got a profuse head of hair that is impossible to tame. He thinks washing up is man's work, and growls at me when I try to do a surreptitious turn of dishes. He's an amazing cultural curator for me, for music, literature and drama - of which there is so much in this world that curators come in handy for finding the gold in the mud. I could go on but it would turn into a book. )



We make a point of climbing mountains on our birthdays, and this was on Brett's last birthday.  (Does anyone need a bucket? I tend to wax lyrical... it was a long wait in both of our lives to find the right person.)

Frugality in the photo:

When buying new, we look for good quality, responsibly made items that last - _not_ the cheapest, which usually come at a huge environmental and social cost. We've had these backpacks since before we got engaged, and will have them for the rest of our lives. All our mountaineering thermals (pants, tops) are already over a decade old in the photo, and they are quality and last. My zipper broke, so I fixed it - that's just normal clothes-fixing, like my grandmother used to do. The Merino wool thermal top Brett is wearing wore out in the last couple of months, so we bought an exact replacement. The old top is still good enough as an undershirt for winter, and will be worn to smithereens there - but the Swiss Cheese appearance near the armpits is not to our taste for outerwear.

The _Keen_ brand walking shoes we would highly recommend because they have excellent cushioning, are actually wide enough for human feet not to crowd your toes, and these shoes last the distance. We can't vouch for the social justice or otherwise of their production, but if anyone knows of any good walking shoes manufacturers where these details are known and positive, please let us know.

The dog is recycled. Some pond dweller took a drive and dumped her in a forest when she was just under a year old. The cute puppy obviously became too demanding for the pond creature's limited attention span... and she ended up at a farm dog rescue, where they told us that since the film _Red Dog_ was released in Australia, there's been a huge spike in young kelpies getting abandoned. People want one just like in the movie, and don't consider that these are working dogs unsuited to life in suburbia, unless homed with a long-distance runner or cyclist or horse-rider or someone else who is willing to give them hours of actual running exercise... Jess came home with us, and she's staying. She'll be seven years old this year, and she's great. She gets a good-quality, high-protein dry feed, and bones from the butcher, and table scraps (our diet is healthy enough to do that), and extra pumpkin from the garden, and eats the equine table leavings for extra fibre.

The food in the backpacks is all home-made, with many home-grown ingredients. I typically make apple strudel as a mountaintop treat that's easy to eat (cream on it helps!), and "dog food" for climbing ration - a baked loaf made from a mixture of rice, fish, spring onions, eggs, grated cheddar cheese, Greek yoghurt and pepper, which is excellent for all-day walking. We cook everything from scratch, because we want to enjoy our food for one thing, while not poisoning ourselves with additives and cheap fillers; and because it's more eco-friendly, especially when you're using increasing amounts of home-grown ingredients, and you try to barter locally for things you don't produce yourself.

Home-made food looks like this at our place:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/redmoonsanctuary/albums/72157687753093115

We make our food as nutritious as we can - we don't usually use standard cookbook recipes. I even have pie crust mixes that don't use refined flour or sugar, and taste so much better - I base my crusts on oats and nuts, and don't add sugar. Flour is wholemeal and stoneground from a local supplier. I'm still working on ways of improving where I buy ingredients we don't grow / grow yet.

We started with small changes, and just kept adding. We've gotten a fair way, but still have some way to go.


Thanks for the song too, @lostastirrup - _excellent_ lyrics!  And very much reminds me of this, thematically:






I chose a version with Spanish subtitles especially for @Spanish Rider, a fellow Cure fan. I know she doesn't need the subtitles, it's just a little gesture! And because her mother grounded her when she had tickets to the _Head On The Door_ tour. Very bad... (mine never let me anywhere near a rock concert, if it's any consolation to you, so I had to do that later in life... but somehow I think it's worse if you've already got tickets...)

For those who aren't into this style of music, here's the lyrics, as they are topical - and serve as a nice critique of the "fill me up" mentality of modern life - when we could really be creative and constructive...

_*WANT*
The Cure, 1996

I'm always wanting more
Anything I haven't got
Everything I want it all
I just can't stop

Planning all my days away
Never find new ways to stay
Never feel enough today
Tomorrow must be more

More drink, more dreams
More bed, more drugs
More lust, more lies
More hate, more love

More fear, more fun
More pain, more flesh
More stars, more smiles
More fame, more sex

However hard I want
I know deep down inside
I'll never really get
More hope or any more time
Any more time
Any more time
Any more time

I want the sky to fall in
I want lightning and thunder
I want fire instead of rain
I want the world to make me wonder
Want to walk on water
Take a trip to the moon
Oh, give me all this
And give me it soon

More drink, more dreams, more drugs
More lust, more lies, more love

However hard I want
I know deep down inside
I'll never really get
More hope or any more time
Any more time
Any more time
Any more time
_


As this is heavy, I'd like to end this post on a short, light note that everyone can enjoy. ;-)


----------



## MeditativeRider (Feb 5, 2019)

I have not read all the responses, but we are very minimal and try do as much stuff as possible ourselves, not no save money but to be environmentally friendly.

–We all have our hair cut at home. I cut mine and the kids. DH does his own.
–We try our best not buy anything in single use plastic for our general day-to-day life. Food is all grown at home, bought from bulk bins direct into glass containers, or if we purchase pre-made things, it is in glass or a can. This can be hard to keep up with on certain occasions like when we are traveling or going on an extended camping trip where we will need to buy food along the way.
–We try buy locally grown food and locally made items as much as possible. 
–We have reduced our meat consumption to only eat fish approximately once a week, and all other meats only on special occasions or when eating out.
–Cleaners are either simple homemade (e.g., vinegar and baking soda) or bought from bulk into reused containers.
–We do not use single use plastics for wrapping foods to take for lunches.
–We make all our food from scratch where we can. The things I want to improve on this are pasta (used to make it, have gone to buying it from a local factory) and nut milks (again used to make it, but have resorted to tetrapaks, which are terrible).
–I sew and knit. We buy second-hand where possible or very good quality (so it lasts) if not. Always natural fibers apart from the unavoidable (like some synthetic content in socks to improve wear). I mend holes in everything multiple times until it really is beyond repair, and then it becomes rags.
–We have minimalist wardrobes. I cut mine down to a capsule wardrobe about 10 years ago and decided on some main colors for my wardrobe, and have been entirely fine with it. Recently, I suddenly wanted to add some extra colors to it for winter/autumn. So I am knitting up some scarfs and beanies so I can accessorize with these colors rather than buying new clothes I really do not need.
–We use all washable cotton rags for home cleaning.
–I make all our general personal care/toiletry items like deodorant, moisturizer, and hair care products. I don't make sunscreen as I am worried about getting it wrong and like the reassurance of an item that has gone through testing to check its UV rating. If anyone is interested in doing this, I highly recommend it. It is very easy and super cheap to do.
–I use a menstrual cup rather than disposable items (TMI?).
–We walk and bike where ever possible. 
–We do as much DIY work/repairs on our house as possible, and we don't change/renovate things just to have the latest modern look or things. Things are only updated when they are broken or a safety issue. 


There is probably more, but we have done this for so long (early 2000's) that it has just become normal to me and I don't realize all that we do. I think we started when we had one year that we set ourselves a challenge of only spending $20 a week at the supermarket. All other items we needed had to be bought at a local market or grown or made. So that really forced us to rethink our habits. I used to be the type of person that ate yogurt out of single-use single-serve plastic containers until I shared an office during my PhD with someone who was a solid waste expert (note: solid waste is trash not sewage).


----------



## whisperbaby22 (Jan 25, 2013)

My cars are so old it's cheaper to repair than to buy another one. I don't think anything of dropping a new engine in, or getting a new radiator. I then have a ready to go car that is dependable. That's another thing with these old cars. They kind of let you know if something is starting to go. 

I did think of something I am frugal about, drying my laundry. I use a clothesline year round.


----------



## MeditativeRider (Feb 5, 2019)

SueC said:


> Home-made food looks like this at our place:
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/redmoonsanctuary/albums/72157687753093115


Yum! Food at your place looks like our sort of food (except we are dairy free, and mostly vegetarian or pescatarian). But glad to see someone else cooks like us.


----------



## MeditativeRider (Feb 5, 2019)

whisperbaby22 said:


> I did think of something I am frugal about, drying my laundry. I use a clothesline year round.


Well done! I know in SoCal that is well outside the norm. We lived in San Diego for almost 4 years and I always got looked at strange for wanting to put my clothes in an airing rack on the patio rather than using the dryer. Where we are from and live currently (NZ), drying outside is the norm. Even in winter, where it's a cycle of putting it in and out between rain showers, and sometimes rehanging it the next day because it did not get warm enough to dry it the first day. There is something about sunshine and air that make for much fresher nicer clothing!


----------



## Filou (Jan 16, 2014)

One thing I do is go shopping at stores like 99c store, or Dollar Tree before I shop other places like Target, or even the grocery store. 

I can't eat gluten, and I don't like meal prepping for work _every day_, so an average of 1 day a week I will bring a microwave dinner to work. With my food allergy things can add up pretty quickly. I found that if I go to the 99c store on the 2nd week of the month they usually have Udis gluten free dinners, and of course they are 99c each. This beats the 4, 5, 6, 7, 8!$ I could spend at trader joes, target, or sprouts. I just have to deal with eating the same tasty ravioli for a few weeks on end, boo-hoo it's so good. 

I tried doing stuff like making meals in the crock pot, but I found to make it tasty, you need a lot of ingredients and I calculated the costs, I wasn't saving any money. Besides cooking in bulk, I found buying certain things in bulk wasn't saving me any money either, because I'd forget and things go bad, or it just took too long to consume. So I actually save money just buying what I need when I need it. I think I pay a little premium over the bulk items, but it does save me money in the long run, especially now when I'm living on my own and bf isn't around. 

I do buy things like TP and paper towels in bulk though, I might be inclined to use the savings to buy a higher quality product so that I don't feel super cheap all the time. 

I used to thrift for my clothes, and I still do on occasion, but I found that I was lacking a certain quality of life, so while many of my clothes are from the thrift shop, I still enjoy buying new clothing on occasion. I have more clothes than I may need, but I have 3 wardrobes, work, street, and horse. I think I'm just doomed to having 3x more clothes than normal people. That's ok. 

Going off that quality of life thing... I used to save some money by having dread locks. I still had to shower and shampoo them, but I didn't need conditioner, hairbrushes, haircuts, etc... Now I removed the dreads and I need to use conditioner and brush my hair, but I was just feeling a little too woodsie with them in, and they got really heavy after several years. It costs me a tiny bit more time and some conditioner. 

I save by doing some things with the horses too. Trimming their feet on my own is one, which saves me about 90$ per month. I don't mess around with the cheap supplements, I buy the ones that I know work and I see results from, I'm not throwing my money away. I like to buy used tack when I can but sometimes I just want something new so I get it, because sometimes saving money isn't worth starving off the desire. 

I used to save a lot of money by not spending it, buying almost nothing, repairing clothes, not pampering myself, but then I had reached this point where I saved enough money, and with a job where I now have enough disposable income that I don't have to do that quite as much. I can get things I want without having to trade off for other things. I think I am less frugal now, but there's still things I do so that I'm not blatantly just handing out free money, like buying an $8 tv dinner...

Oh and I also just washed half my clothes in the bathtub because I didn't want to fill 2 loads for $2 each and then pay $4 more to dry them... Clearly I think my time is 'free'...


----------



## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

One frugal thing we did is make outbuildings, garden structures, rustic furniture, artworks etc from building site waste, from our own house build. This also meant we had no skip bin at the building site. Here's what we did:


----------



## CopperLove (Feb 14, 2019)

@MeditativeRider I don’t think it’s TMI on the menstrual cup at all! In fact I almost included that when I started the thread, as I would recommend one to every woman. But I’ve known even women who find the topic unnerving so I refrained. It's always good to find others who are willing to share that info. I also have washable cotton and cotton fleece pads that I love that are SO much more comfortable than the disposable versions.

I didn’t think of this when I started this thread, but isn’t it interesting that what we consider today to be “money saving” tactics also tie in with trying to be environmentally friendly? Even if that isn’t something at the forefront of your mind, you automatically reduce your waste just by buying less.
@Filou I am still not sure my meal-planning is very successful. I found the same problem as you with making things in bulk that went to waste. My partner “forgets” to eat leftovers, whereas I am more willing to eat the same thing multiple days, or keep fresh ingredients in the fridge to throw something together quickly. It’s a work in progress. Making sure we both have healthy options is another motivation for me to cook more and keep trying various renditions of this “meal-prepping” idea.

The town I live in only has one “thrift” type store and that’s a Goodwill. I like to buy shorts and casual things there but the rest gets picked over so fast, being the only one in a college town, that it’s hard to find work clothes that are in decent shape. There’s a small thrift store where my family’s from where mom helped me find some dress pants, etc. But I suspect that come winter, I will be needing to make an investment into some work-appropriate sweaters, etc. I will need to do a little more research but I’d really like to buy from a brand that’s really going to last well.

I used to do the “no-poo” thing, made my own shampoo from baking soda, then read that wasn’t good for your hair over time and switched to soap nuts. You have to mix those with water and if you mix too much and don’t use it fast enough, especially in humid weather, the concoction will mold. So now I pay for the convenience of shampoo bars from a natural company. I only need to buy maybe three bars a year because they last so long, and it is well worth the little extra I pay for the convenience. But the journey was pretty cool along the way learning to take care of my hair.
@SueC You all are fantastic, the “perfect” couple :lol: Thank you for sharing the article about your home, that’s pretty amazing! I also wish my attempts at food looked as lovely as yours :rofl: You’ve made me think though… I think I’d really like to learn to make bread. We don’t buy a lot of bread but I think it would be nice to do for myself.

My partner and I are very… different people from each other. He is attentive and willing to learn about things that matter to me though. As you’ve seen before on another thread, he’s recovering from times in his life that weren’t the best. We both enjoy the outdoors although neither of us get to spend as much time in outdoor activities as we’d like. He was not an “animal person” at all before we met. He had pets as a child but mostly because his mother wanted them. When we met, I had a pet rat that loved to challenge him every time he came to visit. He couldn’t sit on my bed if Fiver (the rat) was out because that was Fiver’s territory and he’d pee on him to prove it :rofl:

We now have a little, fat black cat that demands he lay down as soon as he gets home from work so she can sit on his chest and rub her head on his beard. I get a chuckle listening to some of their “conversations” in the kitchen over the lactose-free milk. A few weekends ago while we were visiting home he helped me with the evening feeding for the horses. I gave him a treat to give “Sweet Windy”, my aunt’s less-pushy mare, because I knew that she is very gentle and would be the least likely to accidentally nip fingers. When he held his hand out I said, “Oh, you’ll want to do that from the other side. She can’t see you there.” He asked why she couldn’t see him on that side. It never occurred to me that he wouldn’t be able to tell from her cloudy eye that she was blind on that side.

I explained that she’d had some kind of accident in the field before my aunt bought her and that she was blind in that eye. Her ear on that side is bent from whatever happened too (I really don’t know the story, just that she wasn’t born like that.) He walked around to look at her bad side. Then went back to her good side to pet her neck. I can see the wheels turning. He’s starting to understand why so much money and energy goes into the animals. He’s starting to see what we receive in return.


----------



## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

There are all different angles to "being frugal". My guy loves to fix things and build things and hates spending money. On anything. He'd far rather do without than buy something to solve the problem. Ease and convenience are not motivators for him except in kind of odd ways (like he only drinks out of really cheap cups because that way he doesn't feel bad if he loses or breaks them -- both of which he does a fair amount). He is intense about being self-sufficient but it is more about personal control than about 'being green'. Me, I am all about eco-sustainability, eating organic (especially for the sake of the soil -- I spent years working in the organic gardening/farming movement in its early days in the 1970's in California). My husband's affinity is for machines, structures, and problem-solving. Mine is for animals, plants, and art. So I guess we balance ... most of the time.


----------



## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

@CopperLove, :rofl: about that cat / beard thing, and the rats! :rofl: Animals...

You're very kind to compliment us, but I need to underline that we are _not_ perfect, neither environmentally, nor personally!  We try, and we're works in progress. It's very helpful that we're on the same page with many things.

It's so true that frugality and low environmental footprint are closely correlated. It's so frustrating to think that our grandparents were automatically more environmentally responsible than we are (far less consumption, things made to last, repair and make do, walk, cycle etc), and that our utmost efforts are very similar to what they were always doing anyway. With our Grass Roots community, there's a lot of people over 70, and they're always writing in and telling us, "Yeah, that's just what we did, and now it's got a name?"

It's really sad that the way quality of life is measured in the capitalist system is by "living standards" - which is all about material consumption, and which is so terribly damaging to the planet. Yet, material consumption and happiness are not synonymous - indeed, rich Western nations often do worse on happiness surveys than poor countries where people struggle economically. Real quality of life is about good quality basics economically so that you have good food, shelter etc - and then above all about relationships and community, and experiences, and nature, and creativity - the "intangibles". We really need to step away from looking at people, and everything else, through an economic lens - it's tunnel vision, it's damaging, and it's totally distorting reality.

If you want to make bread, I recommend a good basic breadmaker - unless you want to spend time actually kneading and getting floury to your elbows - and some people do!  It's so funny when our breadmaker is on, because I look at the solar panels on the shed and think, "The sun is powering all this, and kneading, and baking for us!" The nice thing about the breadmaker is that it minimises baking mess, cleanup etc in the kitchen, but you have 100% control over what you put into your bread. A good way to start is with pre-mixes (supermarkets have them; pick good ones, preferably wholemeal); it gives you a good feel for the process. You can add walnuts, sunflower seeds, caraway, poppyseed, sesame seed, whatever you like to premixes - I sometimes add cheese and bacon and herbs - but adding too many herbs, and particularly adding garlic, will actually kill the yeast, so be careful, or you'll get a herbaceous brick! :rofl:

Once you're getting good results with premixes and additions like that, you can start substituting stoneground flours and so on for part of the premix. Up to 50% works well for me; beyond that, the breadmaker can have problems, and the yeast-raising on short cycles becomes insufficient. That's when you start looking at sourdough fermentation, and that's another chapter...

Oh, pumpkin bread: Substitute 1/4 to 1/3 of the premix with cooled steamed pumpkin, and reduce water added to mix accordingly. Beautiful bright orange loaves!


----------



## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

I make bread all the time. I've done it all my life, literally. Really isn't that hard, just takes time (mostly in the rising). Typical bread: mix up the ingredients (10 minutes). Knead for 20 minutes. Let rise for an hour to an hour and a half. Punch down (1 minute). Rise again a half hour. Make into loaves (3 minutes). Let rise again a half hour. Pop in the oven and bake an hour. Done! 

So in actuality you are not _working _very long. You just have to be home. One of the best things about baking your own bread is that it is virtually always much better than commercial bread, even if you mess up in some way.


----------



## RidingWithRuby (Apr 18, 2019)

Mmmmm, bread. I love bread. Good, thick bread, not supermarket sliced stuff, which is unfortunately all we buy. I'm going to try my hand at making bread one of these days.

People say I'm excellent at making apple bread, though. I made it once for my dad and he's been dropping hints ever since. "This jam would be good on that apple bread you made."
"Do you want me to pick up some apples for your bread?"

That man's heart is going to explode from my baking.


----------



## MeditativeRider (Feb 5, 2019)

We also love baking bread. I went through a phase of doing sourdough but have given up on that as it required a bit too much care for my time. At the moment we have a breadmaker but we just use it on the dough cycle as we don't like how it bakes. We also do 50% stoneground wholewheat/wholemeal and 50% premix blend. Our local bulk store has a range of premixes (soy and linseed, rye, four seed, country grain etc.) and we cycle through using them. 

I found a great recipe the other day for Middle Eastern taboon flatbreads that make excellent pita pockets and for all sorts of other meals. They are super easy to make and quick to bake (about 5 to 6 min in a pre-heated really hot oven).


----------



## MeditativeRider (Feb 5, 2019)

CopperLove said:


> The town I live in only has one “thrift” type store and that’s a Goodwill. I like to buy shorts and casual things there but the rest gets picked over so fast, being the only one in a college town, that it’s hard to find work clothes that are in decent shape. There’s a small thrift store where my family’s from where mom helped me find some dress pants, etc. But I suspect that come winter, I will be needing to make an investment into some work-appropriate sweaters, etc. I will need to do a little more research but I’d really like to buy from a brand that’s really going to last well.
> 
> I used to do the “no-poo” thing, made my own shampoo from baking soda, then read that wasn’t good for your hair over time and switched to soap nuts. You have to mix those with water and if you mix too much and don’t use it fast enough, especially in humid weather, the concoction will mold. So now I pay for the convenience of shampoo bars from a natural company. I only need to buy maybe three bars a year because they last so long, and it is well worth the little extra I pay for the convenience. But the journey was pretty cool along the way learning to take care of my hair.


It can be hard to find thrifted clothing that is worth buying. I do a mix of thrifted of brands I know last well, and high quality new. I should say, I have it relatively easy in terms of wardrobe though as I am a freelancer and work from home and never meet my clients in person, so I don't need a work wardrobe. We also live in town, so I don't need farm clothes. I pretty much live in jeans, a t'shirt, and sweater. Then I just need a few things for exercise and riding. 

Oh and I am the worst for doing too much research on absolutely everything. It probably contributes to my minimalism as I work myself into a state of not being able to choose anything because it might be the wrong choice and I won't be able to have/experience the other choices. I recently tried to force myself to be more of a decision maker without all the endless research, and all the things I choose I ended up returning. So that did not work!

Everyones hair seems to respond differently to various hair care regimes. I do conditioner only, and my hair is healthy and shiny with one conditioner only wash per week. My daughter needs her hair done with conditioner only at least twice a week, and could probably benefit from shampoo but I have not tried making any yet. I buy the stuff to make our conditioner (and other personal care products) from a local company that does all glass or compostable packaging, and has a good range of natural products (e.g., oils and butters) and mild additives that are used in the likes of natural/organic commercial products. I usually make up about 1 kg at a time and it lasts us a really long time (months).


----------



## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

MeditativeRider said:


> It can be hard to find thrifted clothing that is worth buying. I do a mix of thrifted of brands I know last well, and high quality new. I should say, I have it relatively easy in terms of wardrobe though as I am a freelancer and work from home and never meet my clients in person, so I don't need a work wardrobe. We also live in town, so I don't need farm clothes. I pretty much live in jeans, a t'shirt, and sweater. Then I just need a few things for exercise and riding.
> <snip>.


For well-made used clothing from non-fossil-fuel fabrics, try ebay and etsy. You have to know your size, and you must also know the maker. I stick to a very few manufacturers with a good rep. Some, like Lands End, have gone way downhill recently in quality but their old stuff is worthwhile. My last purchase was a thick cable knit winter pullover sweater by l.l.Bean, 100% wool. It is great. Cost about $25. I am a small petite and it is very hard to find practical clothing in my size even new. Petite is mainly a sportswear and dress category -- I don't wear a lot of either but I have gotten fed up with walking on my pants cuffs and having my shirt sleeves droop over the tips of my fingers. Try finding cotton flannel and linen shirts, and wool sweaters, for a 5'1" frame. 

For work wear, Carhartt is my go to.


----------



## RidingWithRuby (Apr 18, 2019)

Avna said:


> MeditativeRider said:
> 
> 
> > It can be hard to find thrifted clothing that is worth buying. I do a mix of thrifted of brands I know last well, and high quality new. I should say, I have it relatively easy in terms of wardrobe though as I am a freelancer and work from home and never meet my clients in person, so I don't need a work wardrobe. We also live in town, so I don't need farm clothes. I pretty much live in jeans, a t'shirt, and sweater. Then I just need a few things for exercise and riding.
> ...


Hi there, fellow petite. 😉 I'm 5'2 and at this point, I can either wear womens XS-S or girls L-XL. Shopped in the 'petite' section once. Everything looked like something my great grandmother had once owned. In addition, nothing fit anyway. Too short in the legs and too big in the waist.

I have a hard time in the womens department because everything is cut too low for me, and the girls department is similarly tricky because everything has stars and hearts on it. Not my thing.

So I don't buy new clothes often, ha. I wear leggings and tank tops a lot, dresses when I'm feeling fancy. Lots of soft old sweaters.


----------



## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

RidingWithRuby said:


> Hi there, fellow petite. 😉 I'm 5'2 and at this point, I can either wear womens XS-S or girls L-XL. Shopped in the 'petite' section once. Everything looked like something my great grandmother had once owned. In addition, nothing fit anyway. Too short in the legs and too big in the waist.
> 
> I have a hard time in the womens department because everything is cut too low for me, and the girls department is similarly tricky because everything has stars and hearts on it. Not my thing.
> 
> So I don't buy new clothes often, ha. I wear leggings and tank tops a lot, dresses when I'm feeling fancy. Lots of soft old sweaters.


Hah, lucky me, I have stubs for legs and no waist to speak of. In summer I wear jeans and scoop tees, in winter I wear turtleneck tees, long underwear, snow pants and a parka. About sums it up. For awhile there I worked very diligently at finding dresses I liked. Now I have about ten if I count skirts & non-barn sweaters. They will probably last me the rest of my life of going to church, anniversary dinners, and the like. 

My great grandmother wore corsets.


----------



## RidingWithRuby (Apr 18, 2019)

Corsets sound terribly uncomfortable but I cannot deny that they sound cool. 😜

I have no waist but sharp, jutting hip bones. 😛 And long legs. I look like a short scarecrow, or a baby giraffe.


----------



## CopperLove (Feb 14, 2019)

SueC said:


> @CopperLove You're very kind to compliment us, but I need to underline that we are _not_ perfect, neither environmentally, nor personally!  We try, and we're works in progress.


I am a bit fascinated with fairy tales. Sometimes I feel like we’re all living our own fairy tales, and by that I don’t mean the beautified Disney versions. Someone might be disemboweled or baked into a pie along the way, but there’s a lesson to be learned and life goes on... mostly :wink: That’s how I see it at least. Every time we grow, change and survive it’s just one more thing to add to our story. Perfect is relative. Happiness is important. And that is definitely the prettiest sandwich!

*This bit is for Avna and SueC and MeditativeRider* since the topic has come up…. So, having a breadmaker, just takes out the mixing and kneading, is that correct? What kinds/shapes of pans should one use to make loaves of bread?
Once as a teenager I decided I was going to make some kind of yeast/bread starter that you had to feed every day… that didn’t go well. I am heartened to know that I can start my trials with a pre-mix from the supermarket :lol:

@MeditativeRider I do have to have an office wardrobe but the dress code is “office casual”, so I am at least lucky that I can combine my personal style with work and wear a good portion of my “work” clothes outside of work as well. But I find that 9 times out of 10 when I’m not at work I choose a t-shirt and jeans combo also, so I still own way more clothing than I need!

I keep a running list of things we would “like to have” in our house… the list keeps growing but I haven’t purchased a single item on it! Every time I look into buying something on the list I just think… ehhh, we could do without that for a while. Eventually, “do without that for a while” turns into “Why did I want this in the first place?”

I’ve seriously considered adding a conditioner to my hair routine lately… I only wash my scalp with the shampoo bars and let the rest go with a rinse… it’s long and curly and as long as I don’t strip it all of the natural oil it seems to do ok. I’ve been using argan oil (which is what I use to moisturize my face when needed as well), but I’ve seen people with curls I envy who use only conditioner.



Avna said:


> For well-made used clothing from non-fossil-fuel fabrics, try ebay and etsy.


Yes! There is another site, Mercari, that sells used clothing from various vendors, sort of like Ebay but for clothing only. This past winter I needed to replace my old winter coat and I REALLY wanted a red wool peacoat… but I only had part time work at the time and didn’t want to purchase one new. A friend suggested the site, and gave me a coupon code. I found exactly what I was looking for and I think I maybe paid $30 for it, shipping and all. It was clearly used but not in bad shape. I cleaned it up, and this fall I’ll need to sew new buttons onto it as the old ones are loose. But that's ok; I think I would prefer a different color of buttons anyway and I can easily replace them. I love browsing Etsy but seldom think to look for clothing there, I will have to consider that the next time I need something.


----------



## CopperLove (Feb 14, 2019)

RidingWithRuby said:


> Corsets sound terribly uncomfortable but I cannot deny that they sound cool. 😜
> 
> I have no waist but sharp, jutting hip bones. 😛 And long legs. I look like a short scarecrow, or a baby giraffe.


I feel like the modern "petites" section takes into account mostly the height and not the build of the individuals searching for clothing. One thing I know how to do in principal but not in practice is hem pants, could be a good skill to learn :lol:


----------



## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

@*CopperLove* , I actually sort of disagree with going the bread machine route and much prefer starting by hand for nearly all recipes so you really learn how your dough should feel for different types of bread (plus that's one less giant appliance sitting around in your kitchen). I recommend that all aspiring bakers take a look at the King Arthur Flour recipe collection online: https://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/. Their recipes are well tested and include tips from people who have actually baked the items - and a free baker's hotline number or online chat for advice. (I'd also recommend their magazine, Sift, but having a hard copy magazine doesn't necessarily fit with the minimalist theme of this thread :wink 

As far as pans, you can get a basic loaf pan if you want to make sandwich bread, or just a regular sheet pan for more rustic loaves or rolls. A good deep bowl to rise in, some decent olive oil so it doesn't stick, and a clean dishtowel or Bee's wrap to cover the bowl during the rise. It definitely does not require a lot of fancy equipment.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Avna said:


> I make bread all the time. I've done it all my life, literally. Really isn't that hard, just takes time (mostly in the rising). Typical bread: mix up the ingredients (10 minutes). Knead for 20 minutes. Let rise for an hour to an hour and a half. Punch down (1 minute). Rise again a half hour.* Make into loaves (3 minutes). L*et rise again a half hour. Pop in the oven and bake an hour. Done!
> 
> So in actuality you are not _working _very long. You just have to be home. One of the best things about baking your own bread is that it is virtually always much better than commercial bread, even if you mess up in some way.




@Avna question: do you knead a second time? before forming into loaves? or after punching down? or do you just punch down and do nothing more?


I used to make bread for my siblings and mother. My mom paid me fifty cents per loaf, and I made 6 loaves at a time! this was our sandwich bread for the week. For me, at that time (early 1970's), this was good money for one day's work.


I'll tell you a funny story . . . . I made this huge ball of dough, kneaded it up nicely, put it in the biggest bowl we had, which was a blue plastic one. I put that into the oven, and , as usual, turned the oven on for a minute to just raise the inside temp a wee bit. But, normally I kept my hand ON the oven door to stay put and remember to click oven off when temp was up a bit. This time, my teenage mind got distracted, and only the awful smell of something burning brought me rushing back to the oven.


Flinging it open, I saw that the bread bowl was GONE!!! magically just gone, while the lump of dough was sitting naked on the oven rack. WTH???? how could this be?


Then, I noticed this smoking pile of blue goo in the bottom of the oven and put 2 and 2 together. What an awful, awful mess that was to clean up; melted, then solidified plastic on the racks, on the floor of the oven.


major learning experience.


----------



## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

The old Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book is a great starter book for understanding bread. 

No I don't knead the second time, I just shape the loaves. 

I agree with @egrogan, there is no need for a bread machine at all. This is a simple procedure which for some reason has acquired this aura of mysterious difficulty. Pastry is hard. Bread is easy. Easy, cheap, and healthy. 

I don't do sourdough. You need a lot of consistency to keep the mother going and I am erratic. And you need some way to steam your bread, which is quite fiddly when you have an ordinary oven.


----------



## SwissMiss (Aug 1, 2014)

Chiming in on making bread :Angel:


I agree that there is no need for a bread machine. Just a bowl, measuring cups (personally I prefer a scale to weigh out my ingredients), a dish towel to cover the dough while rising, a cookie sheet (pizza stone if you prefer crusty bread) and an oven... It is really pretty simple! 


My motivation to bake bread myself wasn't born out of the idea of being frugal. It happened after my move to the US and I wasn't able to find a bakery with decent bread :shock: 

Just a word of caution: It is hard to go back to store bought bread once you start making your own :wink:


----------



## MeditativeRider (Feb 5, 2019)

Yes, 100% agree, you don't need a bread maker. We went without one for a really long time making bread without one, and only have one now because my mother was wanting to get rid of hers and we have an excess of cupboard and bench space to keep and use it. I do like that it simplifies it somewhat in that I can put it on and go out and not have to do some of the steps. For baking, we don't use a pan of any sort. After the bread maker dough cycle (which includes mixing and rising), I just shape it into a loaf on a flat tray, leave it to rise for about an hour, and then bake.


----------



## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

@CopperLove, re breadmaker, it does the whole lot - knead, raise, bake - and I have no complaints at all about mine, which was a present from a late friend in his 80s, when his kids gave him a new one. Now I think of him every time I bake a loaf. I've made bread both ways - I make all sorts, including flatbreads and pizzas, and brioche, and yeast pastry bases for European plum cake etc. These days, I always get the breadmaker to start my mixes of whatever I am making, because it saves washing up and cleaning and time kneading and trying to fandangle a warm place for raising - the breadmaker keeps it at the right temperature. While the breadmaker is doing the kneading, I am not getting flour all over the kitchen and can go trim one set of donkey hooves instead - in 20 minutes, I can do that - and I have five donkeys to trim, so this means that the time the breadmaker saves me kneading just one loaf a week frees me up for all my donkey hoof trimming in a 6-week cycle. Considering how long our to-do list is, and that the breadmaker does an excellent job of it, I don't feel attached enough to the traditional process of kneading bread to continue to do it. However, if people enjoy it, and have unallocated spare time, they should do it. It's a very earthy thing to do. As far as the bread is concerned, it comes out just as well in my breadmaker as when I'm doing the traditional process. Sourdough, though, I don't make in a breadmaker. It's a different process.

But, I even let the breadmaker knead my strudel dough, which it does beautifully, and then take it out to roll. Just like I take the dough out if I'm making pizzas, flatbreads, braided bread, pretzels etc. When I want to make just a normal loaf of bread, I let the breadmaker bake it.

I use a really basic breadmaker, with a basic 2 hour knead/bake cycle, not an ultra-modern thing - and I've even repaired it, when the fan belt drive broke - spare parts are available. In our household, the oven is powered by gas, but our electricity comes from our solar panels, so it's actually more eco-friendly for us to use the breadmaker for baking. Because of its small size, it also uses much less power to run than an electric oven would (but you can to a degree negate that by baking pizzas or oven roasting a pumpkin etc at the same time as baking a single loaf of bread in a conventional oven). And, there's less washing up and cleaning up. None if you do it right, actually...

However you decide to do it, it's great to eat home-made bread.


----------



## CopperLove (Feb 14, 2019)

@egrogan Thank you for the website recommendation! I think I’ve used a king Arthur flour recipe for biscuits before (Only kind of bread I have made before, biscuits and cornbread. Unless you count the dough for southern-style dumplings.)

I’ll never be able to fit the label “minimalist”. Minimalism would have to pry my books from my cold dead fingers :rofl: I’ve seen so many suggestions to rid yourself of hard-copy materials and just keep digital copies and that just doesn’t make me happy. If I read something I know I don’t want to read again, I’ll pass it on or trade it in. There are also some digital copies of things I read. But as a graphic designer, I love laying hands on printed materials. I love looking at the layout, the cover design. And my partner collects certain kinds of CDs and blu-rays (old obscure horror that boutique labels have started re-mastering.) We have a neat space for each of our collections, but I doubt unless something bad happens and we just have to leave them, we’ll never give up our physical collections.
@Tinylny :rofl: That IS a great story. We have a food-day every Friday through the Summer at work, and I mentioned to a co-worker earlier that I’d been thinking about and getting some advice about making bread. She mentioned the same thing, that she heats the oven for a bit on the lowest temp, then turns it off and sets her dough inside to rest if she’s making something where that’s needed (she was talking about cinnamon rolls in particular though.) I think I’ll invest in some kind of metal mixing bowl if I’m going to do this because that sounds a bit like something I’d do. :rofl: She also scolded me for not making my own pie crust. Said if I was going to make bread and I had already made biscuits and dumpling dough, that I needed to practice my pie crust and that she was going to bring me her recipe :lol:
@Avna Thank you for the book recommendation as well! Perhaps it is pastry that I’ve been thinking of as why I had always assumed bread would be difficult? My mother had a friend at work for a while who made and sold sourdough bread. It was SO GOOD. I never knew you had to steam it though. I think that was what I was trying in vain to imitate, and obviously had no idea what I was doing. (I wasn’t aware that bagels were boiled until recently either though.)
@SwissMiss I think before I take on the endeavor I might have to invest in an actual mixing bowl and some measuring cups… I have a single measuring cup that I wash and use for everything :lol: This thread has inspired me though; I need to really re-organize my kitchen and take stock of the tools I already have.
@SueC Ohhh ok. I think I’ve only seen a breadmaker once, and not in use. I was imagining something that mixed the dough and prepped it but I didn’t realize it took care of the baking too. I can see how if I tried making my own bread and really loved it, a breadmaker would be good to have… my other hobbies all require my hands, and 20 minutes to do something else (like organize, clean, knit, read a book, etc.) would probably be appealing. That’s my main problem with trying to keep up with cooking as it is… I want cooking to be important to me. In theory, it is. But I need to make it a point to really make the time for it. All of you have convinced me I need to do a good organize/clean out of my kitchen/cabinets and fridge this evening and take stock of what tools I have. Very exciting


----------



## Spanish Rider (May 1, 2014)

@SueC , thank you for The Cure dedication.

I have had a bread machine for years, but our village has an excellent baker, so now I only use it to make cinnamon rolls for my kids. However, in recent years, I have had a love/hate relationship with bread. When I eat too much four or too often, my dermatitis blooms. So, once again, I am trying to stay away from it right now.


----------



## whisperbaby22 (Jan 25, 2013)

I am one of those people who just does not do well with digital.  It makes me dizzy, and I have to limit use. If the grid fails, I will still have my books.


----------



## CopperLove (Feb 14, 2019)

whisperbaby22 said:


> I am one of those people who just does not do well with digital. It makes me dizzy, and I have to limit use. If the grid fails, I will still have my books.


I can relate to this. I don't get dizzy, but because my full-time work is completely digital, I worry that being glued to digital reading is just going to ruin my eyesight faster. I tend to indulge myself with some cheap fantasy novels from time to time when I'm stressed out and just want to loose myself in an easy read in a world that doesn't exist, and these I tend to buy cheaply on the kindle app on my phone. When I let myself do this for too long I can definitely tell my eyes don't feel the best between work and entertainment and that I need to go back to paper reading. One eye starts hurting before the other. I'm not sure what that mean if one eye could possibly be weaker than the other. I've heard that the kindle/e-reader screens eliminate this problem and don't hurt your eyes. But again, not going to invest in an e-reader when I like the paper version better anyway.


----------



## WildestDandelion (Apr 4, 2019)

I don't do anything that requires too much work tbh. When I was a stay at home mom I made my own detergent, hand washed dishes etc. This was more about avoiding toxins than saving money though. Right now, I am working 3 jobs. My full time job, and two art businesses (one where I sell my art work, and the other as a face painter, so these don't have set hours but bring in extra income).

My main thing is that we RARELY eat out. I meal plan, and stick to it. Including lunches at work. 
I have a monthly budget that includes setting aside money for haircuts, car maintenance, etc. That way when one of us does need a haircut, it's not a huge lump sum. I've saved up for a few months.

My kids rarely get new toys. We spend money on experiences, or better yet free experiences. We have zoo memberships etc that is a once a year expense we use it year round. 

I never go clothing shopping just for fun. I do it when needed.

We have netflix and hulu, but no cable. No home phone. I use the library instead of buying books. 

Right now we are just trying to pay down debt incurred by our wedding and getting my art businesses to the point where I can quit my full time job.


----------



## CopperLove (Feb 14, 2019)

@WildestDandelion Very cool that you have the goal of taking your art business full time! I thought about this thread the other day. I recently made the decision that I was going to spend the rest of summer, fall and winter working on continuing to build my credit score and pay down my student loan, and then I am finally going to start hunting for a property to buy and stop renting.

Meal planning is still something I struggle with. I'll do really well for a few weeks. Then I'll hit a week where I have to travel a lot for work or stressful things have happened in general life and I loose my rhythm of shopping/cooking/planning. I still eat out a lot less than some of my peers, but a lot more than I'd like to.


----------

