# My horse is pulling away



## Fimargue (Jun 19, 2015)

I invite you to read this thread: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/mare-nopes-out-situations-736042/

It is about a horse who also pulls free and there are a few suggestions listed.

May I ask, how did you end up with this horse? I'm not sure if it's a good match, you being nervous and having a horse with this kind of problem as your first


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## horsekaren (Mar 8, 2017)

Thanks, I will take a look. I was aware of the issue to start, he has so many positives so I thought it would be a challenge that I could take on. He has only pulled away 3 times. 1 on his first day, but I think he was unsure of his surrounding, 2 when being lead in with another horse (twice all with out the rope round his nose) and 3rd time I was lunging him in a head collar which to be honest was my fault as he should have been in a bridal. 


I acknowledge that this is a huge challenge for me to over come, especially with me being nervous but I think if I can over come this it will be such a big achievement and I aim to learn so much from him.


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

Part of your issue I think is that this is a new relationship and he might not have quite made up his mind about you yet. Doesn't make it okay or something to ignore but, from his perspective, I believe it is how he sees it. Being nervous yourself probably isn't helping him decide that "Yes, I'll follow her because she knows what she is doing even though I don't."

You will need to convince him that you are worth following. You didn't mention whether or not you are working with an instructor or have any horse experienced people around that can help you. Not only will that do wonders for your own confidence, it will also do the same for his confidence in you!


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## horsekaren (Mar 8, 2017)

Reiningcatsanddogs said:


> Part of your issue I think is that this is a new relationship and he might not have quite made up his mind about you yet. Doesn't make it okay or something to ignore but, from his perspective, I believe it is how he sees it. Being nervous yourself probably isn't helping him decide that "Yes, I'll follow her because she knows what she is doing even though I don't."
> 
> You will need to convince him that you are worth following. You didn't mention whether or not you are working with an instructor or have any horse experienced people around that can help you. Not only will that do wonders for your own confidence, it will also do the same for his confidence in you!




Thanks for your response, that makes a lot of sense, I am coming across unsure which he is obviously picking up on. I walk him to and from the field clinging really tightly hoping he isn't going to pull away. I do have very knowledgeable people around me but it is something I feel I need to try and do myself so he knows to respect me and not just the people helping me!


I have so much to learn! :cowboy:


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

Never be afraid to ask for guidance! They don't have to do it for you, just instruct you so that you can learn to do it for yourself. 

I have found that having a set of eyes on me can really help with picking up on things I don't even realize that I am doing. Horses are so good at reading body language that it can be almost impossible at times to hide what you are really feeling or thinking. That extra set of eyes on you can be invaluable. If you have it, use it.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

It looks as if you're in the UK 
If the Dually doesn't work you'll get suggestions from US members to try a chain but they aren't as readily available over there as mostly only used by some stallion owners 
If I have a horse that's trying to pull away when led I make up what I call a 'field bridle' out of an old bridle and lead from the bit using a 'connector' which is just a strap that fastens on to each side of the bit with a ring in the middle that you clip the lead rope on too
The more extreme version of that is to use a Chifney bit but they aren't for people who lack experience
The lungeing thing:
If you can't hold him on the lunge off a headcollar or lunge cavesson then I'd suggest you run the clip through the bit on the side that's going to be nearest to where you'll be standing, take it over the poll and then clip it to the bit on the opposite side - this does mean that you have to change over when you change direction but it gives you more power over the horse without pulling directly against the bars of his mouth
This video shows how to do that and also how to secure the reins if you want to leave them on the bridle
The second method she shows is OK for a horse that's well behaved on the lunge but not one I'd use for a horse that pulls against you


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

He can probably sense that you are unsure, or nervous that he is going to walk away. You have to be the leader, and let him know you are confident. I agree that having a trainer help you with this would be a good option if you have tried everything else. Sometimes all it takes is a little push for us to get ahead.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I used to ride a hrose that would do what you are describing, but only when loading into the trailer (float). he was so sneaky, too, waiting until the last second and getting away from me by getting his head away from me, so that he could line up with his hind end toward me, and his head away, and then power off away from me. a freight train could not stop him then.

the trick was to keep him always facing me, even if he started to dance around. his head must always, always be facing me.
so, I learned to give the lead a short, sharp snap the second he started to look away, because he could take that 'look away' into getting his whole neck and shoulders away, in a milisecond.

you want him 100% attention on you, and looking at you, and face on you. 
Now, believe it or not, it's easier to get this done with a little bit MORE lead line between you and the hrose. when your hand is right up under his halter (head collar), you have little actual leverage, and he will be looking PAST you. if he swings his head , you can't really 'snap' much on the halter to say, "back here! buddy boy!"

by giving him a good 4 feet of line, you can really give it a good snap if he starts to look away, and if moves his head away, you can yank it back easier. and have him walk more behind you, so his head never gets past your shoulder. 

I know it sounds counterintuitive, but it's harder to keep a hrose with you when you have a hold right under his halter, and he will be LESS focussed on you because he is not actually seeing you as well, too.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

horsekaren said:


> Thanks, I will take a look. I was aware of the issue to start, he has so many positives so I thought it would be a challenge that I could take on. He has only pulled away 3 times. 1 on his first day, but I think he was unsure of his surrounding, 2 when being lead in with another horse (twice all with out the rope round his nose) and 3rd time I was lunging him in a head collar which to be honest was my fault as he should have been in a bridal.
> 
> 
> I acknowledge that this is a huge challenge for me to over come, especially with me being nervous but I think if I can over come this it will be such a big achievement and I aim to learn so much from him.


I'm actually going to disagree and think that this is an excellent challenge for the OP. There are FAR worse vices to have and this is one easily fixed by proper handling. The OP sounds like she has a VERY good head on her shoulders and admits she's nervous but is also handling him very very well and is taking steps to fix this solution. As for putting the rope over his nose- BRILLIANT. I can't say I've ever seen anyone do that aside from an experienced person who needs a chain and doesn't have one and even then people still tend to not think to do it. I'm VERY pleased you came up with that yourself. And she has an excellent support group as well from the sound of things.

I wouldn't bother with a dually halter and just buy a lead with a chain. I dislike the way they are built and it is just another trainer gadget to me. You can get a leadrope with a chain for <$10. Just my preference, works much better and you can move it as you need to and it won't hurt the horse (if done correctly). "If the Dually doesn't work you'll get suggestions from US members to try a chain but they aren't as readily available over there as mostly only used by some stallion owners" read this after lol!

And, purely generalizing of course, the fact he's a young 16hh cob is probably why he does it lol. That type of horse tends to learn very quickly what they can get away with due to their size. It's unlikely you taught him this but it absolutely can be fixed by you, you just need it in the back of your head he has a tendency to do this.

Now I find it interesting he does it MORE when being lead double.. I wonder if he's not comfortable with the other horse yet.

The trick in addition to head gear is to stop it before it starts. You will NEVER stop a horse that size if he gets lined up and going, don't even try you'll get hurt. But if you can pop his shoulder out pull his head around and keep control you'll be good to go. It doesn't sound like he's doing it to be mean at all just doing it because he can. So be confident. I'm very impressed by how things are going already, just keep on working on it.

"the trick was to keep him always facing me, even if he started to dance around. his head must always, always be facing me."
I STRONGLY disagree with this. Without knowing the horse I think it's potentially very dangerous as some horses will just bolt over you instead. While I agree with the concept (head in towards you and shoulder pushed out so they can't line up and can't point away from you) I would definitely not want the horse actually facing me to where I would block him physically should he go. Plus it's just an awkward way to walk lol. Maybe I'm misunderstanding but just wanted to mention it for the OPs sake.

I agree to not lead him with a death grip. Hold him close and be ready but try to just be nice and normal. I think having different equipment on him will make a huge difference for him (I agree he's probably mostly testing you at this point) and I also think it will help you a great deal with your confidence.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Yogiwick said:


> I'm actually going to disagree and think that this is an excellent challenge for the OP. There are FAR worse vices to have and this is one easily fixed by proper handling. The OP sounds like she has a VERY good head on her shoulders and admits she's nervous but is also handling him very very well and is taking steps to fix this solution. As for putting the rope over his nose- BRILLIANT. I can't say I've ever seen anyone do that aside from an experienced person who needs a chain and doesn't have one and even then people still tend to not think to do it. I'm VERY pleased you came up with that yourself. And she has an excellent support group as well from the sound of things.
> 
> I wouldn't bother with a dually halter and just buy a lead with a chain. I dislike the way they are built and it is just another trainer gadget to me. You can get a leadrope with a chain for <$10. Just my preference, works much better and you can move it as you need to and it won't hurt the horse (if done correctly). "If the Dually doesn't work you'll get suggestions from US members to try a chain but they aren't as readily available over there as mostly only used by some stallion owners" read this after lol!
> 
> ...



facing you does not mean that he has to be whole body lined up directly at you. it means FACEing you, meaning his face turned toward you. yes, having a bend in his body, such that his shoulder is pushed out is best because it keeps him from lining up in front of his hindquarters, and having the power to either tank off, or to come over you.


as for it being awkward, leading a horse while facing back towards it can be a very powerful way to lead. I'm not a big Klaus Hemphling follower, but he deals with some very powerful horses, and his #1 leading position is right in front of the horse, looking backward at it. this keeps the horse looking right at him and very, very aware of his space and his power over it.

all this is too much for a beginner to comprehend, but the idea being, keep the horse's nose pointed toward you, and keep him back behind you (off to one side, of course)


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Yes bend is good just wasn't sure on the description 

I dealt with an even bigger horse who did that and I stopped him- so he did it again and when I went to stop him again he slammed me against the wall (where I decided it wasn't worth it and let go!). So yeah, I'm not getting a mean impression from the OPs guy at all (that horse had issues) but good to play it safe and standing in front of a horse trying to get away I would not recommend.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

_Stupid internet went out while I was writing my response...out for near 20 hours :-x 
By now you have several posts of ideas...
I'll still add mine too...
So far of the responses I've seen I have to agree with most of what I read. 
Good thoughts and advice on your situation noted by many. :grin:
_
So,.... 
_First off* WELCOME to horse ownership....* and *WELCOME to the forum!*_

So, please understand this is _*not *_a criticism post aimed at "hurting" you but to help you; but when I write sometimes it comes across not very nice..._it is NOT intended that way, *promise.*_

So, here we go...
You are new and unsure of yourself and if you are doing things just right or not.
Your horse is picking up on your insecure feeling and capitalizing on it...
Horse is taking advantage and you are allowing it to happen, even though you wish it were not, it is.
So...you need to do handling techniques and ground work...lots of it.
Your horse _*must*_ respect you, your authority and leadership. 
Till you have that well understood he will continue to take advantage of you and test you, push you further and further into dangerous territory.
If you feel more secure, in control and the leader by putting a bridle on the horse to bring him in from the field, _do it!_
You need to be confident in handling this animal...so bridle him over his halter if he wears it in t/o...
Fasten a way to clip both sides of the bit at the same time so if pressure to him is needed it is equal to his mouth.

It _*is*_ time for you to learn how to get tough with your horse and not let him walk all over you.
You lead, he follows or he discovers he not like what happens in response to his disobedience. 
You entire "persona", your personal being and space, the horse perceives has suddenly gotten 10 feet tall and with a tough demeanor.
If he gets out of place, he should be thinking "OMG, what have I done" when you get big and ugly at him in _immediate response._
_Don't back down, don't relent _as he has already beat you at his game of being superior to you...and yes, horses do think of it this way. 
Called being the leader, the dominant member.. or the follower, peon or underling in the herd hierarchy.
The best way I can describe it simply is you make a request, ask for him to do something {always request first}, he refuses, now you demand of him a response. In your present situation you have requested he walk quietly with you and he is not....so...
Many make that now _"demand_" to move the feet in a certain way, how many steps, how fast and where he is to put his feet... INSTANTLY in response to his disobedience. You _*do not*_ wait a minute or two..it is immediate to his refusal to comply to your wish and asked response.
If you were the herd lead horse and pulled the nonsense he is doing to you, as a horse you would turn tail, kick and bite at him in disapproval and punishment immediately.
We as humans must get "big" and ugly and make the horse think the sky is falling on their head from their disobedient behavior...
We are small in size and weight compared to their bulk...so make up for it by outsmarting them and their pea sized brain.

At this point you have been tested twice _at least_ by the horse and failed miserably, sorry.
You now are needing to play catch-up and work harder and be tougher to regain the upper hand.
Someplace in time this way of acting became a game to this horse. 
He shows dominance over you and that is wrong and dangerous, period!
You know how he should act because you said the other horse is perfect with ground manners...so should your horse be. 
It takes time to overcome and re-train good behavior when bad has been allowed.
It takes time to learn to handle sternly, but with compassion and when to haul off and get nasty in response to a challenge of your authority and safety.
It takes time to learn, to gain the natural confidence that you will come to have as you handle more horses of different personality.

My suggestion would be....
Watch the person who has the horse with those impeccable ground manners and ask that person if they could help you to get that way with your horse.Could they, would they work with you, teach and show you and help you to break the bad habit your horse has so no one gets hurt handling the intimadator I would call him cause that is what he is doing to you...intimidating you!
Time for role reversal and the horse be and learned respect so he stops testing you, he respects that he will be disciplined quickly and appropriately for bad actions from him..
You_ don't_ need to be cruel. 
You _do_ need to be firm, consistent in handling, give praise where it is earned and instant discipline that fits the crime committed when he is bad and disobedient.
I've walked many a horse backward to home because he tried to bolt, pull-away...so now he works hard going backward away from me. Amazing the next time I needed to handle said horse he walked quietly on a loose shank with me, never leaving my side...

If done right...the horse will shadow your movement of shoulder. 
He _will_ watch you, follow you and literally shadow your every movement with his. 
Today, some call this join-up. One of "the names" in trainers many follow and now hyped commercially has videos out on you-tube you can watch to understand what I mean... 
It is _not _a new concept and has been done by horseman for more years than I can remember {40+} but now it just has a fancy name and audience marketing to it...

_*It all boils down to respect.*_
Right now the horse has near "0" for you and needs to learn it fast.
You have no respect or confidence in your handling of the horse and feed into his bad behavior...
Together, you need to realign the herd leader/lead mare and follower/underling position.
Needs done now, as quickly as possible so your future melds together where you ask and horse responds correctly to that request.
Right now there will be some testing by him and discipline by you...both are learning their proper place. 
Yours_* is*_ to lead...
Horse* is* to follow your lead and request...

We all go through this with a new horse who is testing where they stand and how much to get away with...give no lee-way. 
Make your demands fair and just, clearly understood so compliance can be given. 
When tested ...look-out cause the clouds should part and the horse KNOW HE DONE WRONG immediately.
Once disciplined, drop it and continue on as before it occurred. 
You only discipline when disobeyed...give punishment then move on with a clean slate.
Soon, there won't be the test and bad behavior as it is far easier to be good and praised than be made to work hard for being bad and disrespectful.
So...end of the tale...
_*The horse needs to learn to respect you. *_
You need to learn how to ask for, then demand that respect and never ever give it up once you earn it, _you keep it.

I also second getting a chain shank. Stallion shank some call them. 
With a 20" - 30" inch chain that is attached to a cotton or nylon rope or leather strap...no flat nylon though {it can cut you severely}.
http://www.chicksaddlery.com/page/CDS/PROD/2001/392050
Saddles Tack Horse Supplies - ChickSaddlery.com Heavy-Duty Nylon Lead With Removable Chain
Please, please no matter how tempting to make a loop and hold it wrapped around your hand, DON'T! Fold it instead...always fold it.
If the horse pulls back and snaps that shank around your hand you will be dragged or possibly lose part of your hand in the process... never loop and have your hand where it can be caught. 
You know you have a issue...work with that to remain safe...

To safely apply a chain shank..
_Most often, the chain needs to be snapped on the opposite side of the handler, at the link next to the horses eye. It is then run down, through the cheek link, then over the nose next to the halter nose band, through the cheek link closest to the handler, then to the lead rope. This applies pressure to the nose and is most often sufficient.
Only ever use the least amount of force needed to make your message clearly understood.
There are other ways to apply a chain described in the link following.  { http://www.ehow.com/how_4473151_use-stud-chain-stallion.html}
 
Now, if I confused you...ask and I can try or others _{please}_ chime in and add, correct if it came out wrong and clarify if you can make it understood more easily...:loveshower:

_Remember none of us were born with all the answers or known tricks either, and all of us still can learn from another by their experiences...
__No question is ever foolish or stupid to ask.
The foolish or stupid question is the one left unasked...._

Good luck.
:runninghorse2:...
_jmo..._


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## horseylover1_1 (Feb 13, 2008)

I was working with a horse that had the same issue. After three sessions of ground work in the round pen (I use Clinton Anderson methods-there are Youtube videos if you want to learn more) she walks behind me like a puppy dog because she is starting to respect me and knows what I want her to do. I also would carry a long whip with me and wave it around her face if she started getting close just as a reminder... "Hey, I don't want you in my space!" I wouldn't reccommend the whip without the ground work though as it could turn into a band aid fix. You want to be able to lead comfortably without one of course.

Edit: I skimmed over other's replies. As far as halters go I really, really like rope halters. They have pressure points on the nose that sends a clear message to the horse on what you want them to do. Just make sure you take away the "pressure" when they do what you want. And they're cheap. I've not tried a dually halter, but I've seen them for like $70 which IMO is ridiculous.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

You have received good advice. 

I always say that problems like this can be stopped from the stable. 

When he is inside the stable you need to be sure that he is totally obedient to you, you ask for something and he does it immediately.

My 'thing' about instilling manners is to make the horse stand at the back of the stables sideways on and not move. If he does he gets placed back. Watch his knees for warning of when he is going to move, he will take all the weight on one leg and unlock the other knee. The moment he does this you issue the verbal command 'Stand' if he moves poke a finger in his chest and push him back, if he ignores this use thenpointed end of a hoof pick and make him go back to where he was. 

You make him stand like this even with the door open, he must not move until you tell him he can. 

He must move over when you ask him and when the standing still whilst not tied is established you can get him to move over without him walking around the stable. 

These bigger set horses need a very firm but fair hand. They soon learn their own strength and will take advantage. Be bossy with him he will respect you all the more for it. 

Sorting the little things in a confined space will usually stop the major things from happening.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Well, I guess personal choice, far as whether you wish to use a bit to lead the hrose, or a chain run under the chin
Jaydee is correct, that a chain run under the chin, is a very common practice on this side of the Ocean, and not Just for control, but used in the same context as spurs, to create a horse very light in hand, where that chain seldom, if ever, then needs to be engaged, same as a horse, who has been taught to respond to light legs alone, ridden correctly with spurs for back up
There are people showing stallions at halter, who run that chain through the mouth, but to me, that mouth is sacred, on a horse you are going to ride, so I prefer to use a chain if needed, and also teach my horses to accept a chain run under the chin, as that is the way they are shown at halter and showmanship, and not for control, as they are led everywhere else with a plain halter and lead shank-but for finesse in hand.
Some people also find a rope halter or a Be Nice halter, effective, far as control
Agree on good improvision, far as butting the rope over the noseband, giving the halter 'more bite'
In an emergency, on a horse that wants to suddenly get 'strong', I have also used that lead shank to make a quick version of a war bridle, by just putting it over the poll and back over the nose, and through the bottom halter hardware on your side


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I don't use the chain over the nose, unless a horse really wants to rear
The mildest application of the chain shank, which we even used, hand breeding stallions, is to run it through the near side bottom of the halter, under the chin, up through the opposite bottom hardware, and then snap it onto the halter hardware that is up near cheek level. The chain must be long enough, to have no action, unless the horse resists, and then also gives instantly again, soon as the hrose gives

Over the nose is next severe. I don't like it anywhere near as much, as it is always there, and can pull against eye, unless wrapped around nose band

Through the mouth is most severe


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Smilie... the chain just "being their" is more than enough reminder of manners and attitude  kept in check for many.
Just because it is their doesn't mean it is engaged as it sounds you also found with your horses...:smile:
Sometimes just run through the center rear halter ring normally used...the added weight and jangle is more than enough reminder to the alert and smart horse.
A chain used judiciously, carefully and as a training aid is not a bad thing. 
Used improperly as any other "aid" it can turn cruel quickly._jmo..._
:runninghorse2:.....


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

horselovinguy said:


> Smilie... the chain just "being their" is more than enough reminder of manners and attitude  kept in check for many.
> Just because it is their doesn't mean it is engaged as it sounds you also found with your horses...:smile:
> Sometimes just run through the center rear halter ring normally used...the added weight and jangle is more than enough reminder to the alert and smart horse.
> A chain used judiciously, carefully and as a training aid is not a bad thing.
> ...


Agree, it becomes a conditioned response.
Just a good example where I did not even need to use the chain-just put it on!
I was breeding my one mare, to an outside stud I had shown that mare both in hand and under saddle, so she was used tot hat stud shank run under the chin.
Anyway, that outside breeding became a two year night mare, with my mare getting a uterine infection. Found out that the assistant was 
inseminating her when she was not in heat Anyway, wound up she needed quite a few treatments,and ultra sounds, with me hauling her to my vet,,back and forth, after she got home
She thus got trailer loading associated with procedures, and once being easy to load, now at times became difficult.
One time, when I went tore load her, after yet another ultra sound, she balked. I thus got the stud shank out of the trailer and put it on her. The vet looked a bit concerned, but I told him, 'don't worry, I won't even have to use it'.
True enough, without the slack ever going out of that shank, she loaded just fine.
The vet just said, 'that is even funny"! Conditioned, versus physical response!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi, If you were aware of this issue before you bought him, does that mean he did it with his old owner/everyone, or just tried it on you before you purchased? If it's not an ingrained habit, may well be that he's new to the environment & you & your being unsure is either making him nervous & reactive, or making him want to take charge.

It doesn't sound like a big deal, that you have to stress about, but just one of those things that you need to learn how to deal with effectively.

If you're new/nervous, you shouldn't be left leading 2 horses together - one's enough. It is entirely reasonable that you have someone to take the other horse, if you can't separate them. I wonder, perhaps he pulled back with the other horse because the other one told him to 'bug off'.

I know it is normal to lead a horse with a hand right under their chin or up close, but this often leads to people putting constant or nagging pressure on the lead, causing them to, at best learn to ignore it, at worst, get frustrated & reactive, trying to relieve it. In addition, if you are holding him so closely, when you want to be firm with him, you won't have much 'oomph' if needed. Rather, if you walk him on a loose rein, he will learn that he has freedom when he's 'good' and only feels uncomfortable pressure when he does 'wrong'. In addition, if you have *at least* 1" away, pref a fair bit more, you will have leverage there to put some strong, quick pressure on him when needed, to 'correct' him(or, when he jerks back, for him to correct himself).

I disagree with lunging him in a bridle/bit, at least until/unless you and he are experienced/good with lunging. The extra length of rein means there can be constant uncomfortable pressure on his mouth even when you aren't meaning, and too easy for that leverage length to cause pain. In fact, I wouldn't lunge him at all until he's leading/driving well up close.


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