# Wait....what????



## Gillian (Aug 2, 2008)

I was originally taught to be very handsy, and to this day it is something that I have to check myself about every single ride. I WISH I had been taught correctly when I first started riding! It's very frustrating to learn as you grow up just how wrong your instructors were when you were little. It simply amazes me that these people don't care enough or aren't educated enough to teach their students properly. I'm at the point where I'm very wary about how much hand I use when I ride. Zeus has taught me a lot and he does NOT accept a rider who is all up in his face. He's teaching me how to ride with my seat, as that is how he responds best. My dressage lessons are also doing wonders for me and for Zeus, and i'm slowly breaking all the bad habits that were installed in me when I was 6-12 years old and didn't know any better. But I must tell you, you know how frustrated you get watching that? Image how frustrating is it trying to break those habits and become a better rider.

I agree with you 100%. 
I just don't get it.

*shakes head*


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

> I WISH I had been taught correctly when I first started riding! It's very frustrating to learn as you grow up just how wrong your instructors were when you were little. It simply amazes me that these people don't care enough or aren't educated enough to teach their students properly.


Exaclty! That is the BIGGEST issue I have in the Equestrian World. Too many uneducated Coaches, turning out uneducated Riders.

Sure opened my eyes - just because someone says to me that they ride for a college team...doesn't mean they are good riders. 

I'm with you Gillian. I was in Pony Club for years and took lessons for years and never learnt stuff that I shoud of learnt. 

As David O'Connor says - it takes a million times of repretave work to fix 1 bad habit.


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## Gillian (Aug 2, 2008)

Yup yup. I find it depressing that I've been riding for 12 years, taking lessons mind you, and I only learned about collection and "seat into legs into hands into soften" a few years ago. I mean, if I had a real educated coach when I was younger I'd be a much better rider than I am now. I could honestly rant about this forever. That those coaches held me back from becoming a better rider... ugh. I'm just lucky that I have found an amazing, EDUCATED coach, and a wonderful horse who will not accept less than the best from me.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

I totally know what you're talking about. 
I know I personally ride with my hands way too much and I've never been taught how (I've kinda taught myself a little but not enough) to do anything with my seat except sit on it, yet I've been told I have very good hands. :shock:
It scares me quite a bit that I have "good hands"... What are bad hands? :shock:

All the time I find myself asking Lacey to back up by pulling back the reins first, when I know I can and should squeeze her, lean back a smidge and gather up a little more rein (she responds so much better to the second method as well, I just get stuck by the first). Craziness.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

I was SO excited for my college equestrian team when I started school this fall. I worked my entire schedule around it and was just super stoked. 


Then they rode exactly like you are describing. Some of the riders were dangerous and I don't feel like they put the horse first. 
I'm not going to be riding on the team anymore and am instead using that money to take more lessons out at the eventing barn who teach riding with seat rather than hands. 

I was really upset when I saw that's how the team rode, and worse to hear thats how other teams are riding too.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Wow Spastic Dove......


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## StormyBlues (Dec 31, 2008)

I have been VERY handsy up until VERY recently. Geof has taught me that he will brace if I ask wrong! Now I sit up tall, close my calf, and squeaze with the reins. It feels so much eaiser than ripping the horse's face off!


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I used to ride inter-school. It was the same thing only we didn't have test riders. We drew the horses name. Notes were marked by the owner on his tag. It was a ton of fun.

There is a show barn really close to me where the college kids ride and the thing that I didn't realize is alot of them learn to ride IN COLLEGE. Which means you have riders with very little experience jumping ... really high jumps... scary....


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Yeah, the people riding in our advanced riding class in the equine program generally are in their third semester of riding. Eep


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Ahhhh. I did not know that!


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## StormyBlues (Dec 31, 2008)

That's silly. a year and a half of riding and in an advanced class?! crazy!


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## My Beau (Jan 2, 2009)

How high do you jump in an advanced class?


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Im not in the class, so I don't know. I know if you come in with no horse experience, you get put into beginner. Then intermediate next semester, then advanced. 
To jump through IHSA, you have to have shown in a jumping class or have had 6 months jumping lessons. I am not sure how the non IHSA jumping works. But as far as general flat goes, the advanced riders CAN be riders going into their third semester (and many are). After that they can go into colt breaking and training.


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## StormyBlues (Dec 31, 2008)

So they let a person who has only been educated in riding for 2 years break a horse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 0_o


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Essentially yes. It's terrifying. 

That's why Im not an equine major and not doing their club anymore. 
And they are not the only school that does it this way from what I have looked into.


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## StormyBlues (Dec 31, 2008)

That is horrific, the poor horses!


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## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

Totally depends on what school you go to and their riding program. Some are actually quite good, some are terrible. I went to a college on the east coast with a pretty extensive riding program that's very popular. Even though I had been jumping for yeeeeears there was only room for me in the 2"6 class, so that's what i did, even though it was much lower then what I had been jumping at home. In fact, no one in the jumping program learned to jump in college, they were just in the same boat I was in, trying to get into a class so they could ride/show. And you didn't move up a level unless the coach said you were ready, so there were some who stayed in, say, Intermediate for years. 

I know schools where you've had to be competing and winning at the top A shows in the big Eqs (Maclays and such) to even be remotely looked at and some where they pretty much take anyone who's been on a horse before. Just like any other show, you get some with great foundations and some with trainers who should find a new job.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Upnover, that's exactly what I was hoping to find. I looked at Delaware Valley College, Cetenary, and the Perdue team is great. Unfortunately I could only really afford staying in state. I think those teams would be awesome to ride on.


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## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

Riding in college is a fun experience  but quite honestly it wasn't for me. I think it really shows who can ride and who can't (as MIE saw) but a huge part of riding for me is the training and the progress that I see when I bring a horse along. Plus, showing for me in the past was about me and my horse. When you show in college you really are showing on a TEAM and I hate the pressure of letting down a team if you don't ride well! 

Spastic Dove- don't know what the teams in Montana are like but I hope you find a school with a good one! In my day Virginia Intermont was the team to beat. St. Andrews, Cazenova, etc are usually pretty good. I know some really spectacular riders at Savannah College of Art and Design. But I also hear that IHSA has gone down and now NCAA is where the great riders are.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Hmm I'll have to look in to it. I've found a great barn of eventers who I am learning a lot from without the pressure of competing and the team like you mentioned so I'm happy. I was just shocked when I went to the first few meetings/practices.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> and the Perdue team is great.


I know a girl who goes to Perdue! We billeted with her family when we went over. She rides Mounted Games, don't know if she would be on the eq. team.


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

Why are you so surprised that you see so many inappropriate scenarios going on around you in this horsey world? There is just so much to learn about handling and riding a horse.

Believe me, being with horses is the learning exercise of a lifetime and you will never stop picking up ideas or tips. You will be wrong sometimes, you will be correct on other occasions.

The difficult is always to put your point across in such a way as to acheive a positive result. Dealing with the horse sometimes is easy - dealing with the human owner can be a serious problem. Sometimes just raising an issue can cause a relationship issue with the owner or rider. 
But if the horse is suffering, then weigh up the odds, think about how to make your point and start talking.

Remember you are going to need more tact with the owner, than you might need with an unbacked, in season, stroppy, Thorobred mare

Some folks do try to learn and they keep their eyes open,
Some folks don't seem to realize that what they are doing is either bad for the horse, dangerous for them or dangerous to other folks around them.
Some folks simply don't care.

But if you want to be in this horsey world, then you are part of it. And we must all try to help eachother. Sometimes the problem revolves around ignorance - no more no less.

Never ever stop asking questions
Never ever stop querying your own attitudes
Never ever worry about asking for advice
Never ever be afraid to admit you are wrong.
Never ever stop putting yourself forwards - but just be careful how you do it.
and 
never ever watch cruelty to a big, dumb, quadruped that can't speak up for itself.

Barry G

And accept the fact that when you get old and grey like me, you are going to prefer the company of horses (and dogs) to that of most humans (except for other horsey folks of course)


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

I went to uni on the East Coast at a place with very highly regarded equestrian team, both eq and dressage, which won nationals for several years in a row. You had to be a good rider to get on the team. There were intense, scary try-outs and of course the team was determined year after year to retain its status so the pressure on the riders to compete well was relentless. Due to its reputation the uni attracted good riders, so it was a self-perpetuating thing. This all seemed to be like the least amount of fun anyone could have on a horse so I never even tried out. That and I knew I'd never get on since I'd have to try out for the First Level division as I had shown (and made an **** of but nevermind) Second Level and there were FEI or close to it level people who were making the team at that level. 

Anyway, the quality of the riders at that place was overall pretty good. That was just the kind of place it was. I'd consider myself kind of an okay rider but was very much towards the bottom, mediocre end of things there, since a lot of people weren't mediocre, but excellent. It was high pressured enough that even though I wasn't competing much, I got a neurotic complex about how much my riding sucked. It in fact turned me off competing. Before I started uni I showed dressage regularly but lost the will to do it there due to the crazy intensity, and if your 53% was on the board below everyone else's 70%, you felt pretty sh*te about it. 

During my first year I let them use my horse in one of the IHSA dressage shows. Cause she is a good girl, the other teams put their dodgiest riders on her. Obviously I had zero control over who was on her at that point and could only bite my nails and watch (and to be fair, it wasn't horrendous, it was just out of balanced riders lugging around the arena) but it was the last year she ever did an IHSA show.


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## southerncowgirl93 (Feb 5, 2009)

I use leg and seat cues as much as possible, but even so, when I ask a horse to stop I gently bump back on the reins once while I use my seat. They seem to do better with just a little pressure. That may just be my horses. lol I don't like getting in a horses mouth a lot. I feel like I'll hurt them.


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## Amba1027 (Jun 26, 2009)

I hope whatever school I end up going to is not like that. I'm looking at Delaware Valley and Virginia Intermont and poeple have said good things about their teams so hopefully I will be ok.

I'm so happy the barn I rode at was owned by a very good trainer. I took a half hour dressage lesson from her every week in addition to my regular group lesson. It was very rare that I had a lesson with her where I was allowed to have my stirrups and reins. It was always one or the other. It used to drive me crazy at the time but now I know it made me a much better rider and I am really thankful for that.


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## anrz (Dec 21, 2008)

Hmm... all of these stories don't sound too good... it makes me very thankful that I ride with two great instructors! One of them has me riding on a lunge line for the first half of the lesson. Whenever I start to use my hands more than my seat, she makes me ride on the buckle walk, trot, and canter, using only my seat and body to slow down the horse. It helps SO much, and it makes me disappointed that so many coaches are teaching the 'reins to stop' way. However, I can understand that some riders are still getting the hang of it, and- especially in shows- they might forget about using their seat.


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## TroubledTB (Jun 26, 2009)

I've had friends who have done the program and one in particular is an intermidiate/advanced rider who had no problem with the program, but she had already had experience getting catch rides and took the opportunity to get on anything. Anyways your lucky the girl on the pony even had a coach, most of them are using the strongest member of the team as a coach and that could be dangerous depending on who it is. There were a couple of A circuit riders who didn't need any help and some very novice riders who showed where the divide was, but no one I saw was jumping very big, probably not even 3 foot. One of the girls on the team was going to state and it was obvious she had won an eq medal or two in her days so no surprise. People who take competitive riding seriously aren't used to seeing people just participating for experience around them. It makes having three or four horse show experiences affordable to an average college student interested in riding horses, give these guys a break, most are doing cross rails or hunter hack. Besides for those of you who donate your horses for a day think of how it makes your horse appreiciate you riding them. I would just use it as a threat from time to time, "don't make me send you back to those college students again!"


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## kchfuller (Feb 1, 2008)

ok so i didn't read everything that everyone wrote b/c i wanted to respond BUT i rode in college and our team was very competitive. We had extensive tryouts and the cut a lot of people. 

I have been riding and showing for years and i was shocked when we completed against other schools how people made the DUMBEST mistakes. 

For example: 

In the flat classes we did like a dressage type thing, were at the indicated letter you did whatever they had specified (sitting trot, canter, halt ext) ... well there were people who would flop all over in the sitting trot or would be on the wrong diagonal the whole pattern or instead of preparing to stop at letter A the wouldn't stop for another 1/4 of the arena! I was on a 4 yr old in one class and there were people on MUCH nicer and better trained horses and i got second- my jaw dropped b/c I knew I did the patters right and perfect but I was on a young not to perfect horse so I didn't think we would do well ...

Then in jumping they would just assume the horses would jump, HELLO you have to ride the horse.

So needless to say it was a lot of eye opening for me. Our team was polished to the nine but other teams were kind of a joke- and we were Division 1 so they should have been good.

BUT don't get your hopes down that riding in college isn't a good idea- you can find good teams out there and you can learn a lot. For the 1st 2 months our trainers made us ride without sturrups or reins on a lounge line so that we would have a super solid core.

I can tell you that it def. made me a better rider and used to getting on random horses here and there and having to adjust.


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## IheartPheobe (Feb 15, 2009)

I have originally been taught to be very "handsy." Roger and I were having a big problem on Wednesday because, I would try to give him a lot of rein but, when he took off I would say "he obviously can't do this on a long rein" and shorten them, therefore... he would go faster.  i FINALLY got myself to sit down and slow him down. >.<


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

> Hmm... all of these stories don't sound too good... it makes me very thankful that I ride with two great instructors! One of them has me riding on a lunge line for the first half of the lesson. Whenever I start to use my hands more than my seat, she makes me ride on the buckle walk, trot, and canter, using only my seat and body to slow down the horse. It helps SO much, and it makes me disappointed that so many coaches are teaching the 'reins to stop' way. However, I can understand that some riders are still getting the hang of it, and- especially in shows- they might forget about using their seat.


I think that is absolultey amazing anrz! You have a great coach! Your coach is 100% in this for your education, and I say bravo!


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