# Would you buy a horse with club foot? Pics



## jessrud14 (Jul 8, 2015)

So I've been talking to this lady who has a 3 year old registered blue roan gelding that she is giving away. 90 days professional training, sweet temperament and He is gorgeous. Only downfall is he has "club foot" on this right side front hoof. Does anybody have experience with this? She said he gets a little sore if ridden too hard. But I heard that it could he managed with proper hoof care and maybe boots. Any help or advice would be appreciated. Thank you!


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## Kotori (Jun 18, 2012)

Giving away? Is he not sound enough to hold up to what she wants? I'd ask her specifically how much riding he can handle. Ridden hard can mean two different things to two different people. I can't see the picture, so can't comment, but some club hooves are caused by bad trimming, or can be minimized with good trimming, but I don't know much about that. 

The boots might work, since the reason a club hoof is lame is due to shock not being properly absorbed, but I feel like that could add up to worse problems down the road. In line with that, I'd expect his threshold to strenuous activity to drop over time. Still, a free three year old? I'd probably go for it, but be aware of what could happen (and wait for loosie to show up! she knows way more about club hooves than I do!)


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## jessrud14 (Jul 8, 2015)

Yep, he's just not sound for what she would want to use him for and would be a pasture ornament if she kept him. She said it's been really hard to decide to find him a new home because he's such a great horse! From the pictures, it doesn't look like it's too Bad at all But this is coming from someone who doesn't really know a lot about club foot in horses. She said he gets sore in that right front foot. I guess the trainer noticed him getting sore when he took him on hard ground, but was doing great in an arena with soft sandy. I think I'm just going to go ahead and pick him up and take my chances since a free 3 year old with 90 days professional training is just not something you come by often. He's a gorgeous horse and worst case scenario I can hopefully make him into a horse my kids can poke around on! 
If someone knows how to manage club foot enough to make him sound enough for pleasure riding I would appreciate your advice.
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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

That foot defies the adjective of a "great" horse.

Are you looking for something to just have in your pasture? Do you like trying to keep a horse out of pain? Because even if not ridden, this guy is going to have joint problems on up the leg, into the shoulder, and likely beyond.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

It would depend a lot on the horse and what you want him for. I have had a mare with a severe clubbed foot and she was the best trail riding horse, on some ugly terrain, that I've ever had. She never took a lame step. We managed her with trims and she never wore a boot. Would I BUY a horse like that? Nope. But I might take a chance on a free one again. 

Here's where we used to go riding, along the Salt River: 









Here's Odie: 


















Can't say that every horse with a club will be as sound as she was, but she never had a problem.


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## 3rdTimestheCharm (Jan 18, 2015)

My gelding has club foot, and he's never been lame and is barefoot. However, his is a minor case.

That situation sounds a bit sketchy, so I say if you want this horse you should get him vet checked and have a good farrier look at him before you make a final descion. He's very handsome!
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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

There was a horse that a youth rode at the AQHA shows around her that I absolutely adored. She was a palomino, which I'm not usually drawn to but she had the best attitude and she won all the time. Every time I mentioned how much I liked that horse my trainer would say "She has a club foot"... I don't think it ever effected her.

I just did a google search and found her: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A0xrmFWMlc


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

My horse has a mild club foot and it has yet to be a factor. He's 13 and winning his dressage phase almost every show. The horse you're considering has a more severe club. I would not touch him before getting an xray to see if any rotation has taken place. It all the inner bones are still lined up well, he might be okay for light riding.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

i know someone who's gelding has two clun feet. both fronts. he is bearfoot and she rides him everywhere and hard. she dose not use boots for him ethier.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

If the horse showed lameness when he was being ridden initially then the chances of him being sound are remote. As he ages so it will get worse. 

Some horses cope with a club foot, most do not make old bones. It can be helped a bit but never 'cured'

As to the horse with two club feet, it is possible it was lame on both and not noticed.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

nope. he is 19 year old and he gets ridden sevral times a week, and normaly not light trail rides. she goes on overnight campouts with him as well. i have watched him playing in the arena and the horse dose not take a lame step. another friend has a paint with one front club foot. no issues and i have ridden this horse, not a lame step. and my sister in law's 20 year old 17hh morgan has a club foot and never has soundness issues as well. if proporly trimmed clubed feet should not majorly effect a horse. now someone trying to "fix" the foot might have caused the horse OP is talking about to go lame.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

If you DO NOT try to 'fix' or "improve' them, most stay sound indefinitely. I've known race horses, barrel horses and ranch horse that rode sound for years. My Vet considers it a 'blemish' and not an 'un-soundness'.

I had a gelding in the trail string for several years that had a club foot as severe as the one shown. We just made sure it was trimmed and shod at the angle it wanted to grow. As long as you never try to lower the heels, most stay sound. 

I would not pay much for one, but I would take a free one that is broke to ride in a heart-beat. It always affects one's resale value negatively.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

*This horse is free for a reason.*

He can't hold up to 90 days as a 3 year old what makes you think he will be sound.

Honestly he's better off as a pasture puff. Still will need money put into him though.

My friend has a horse with a club that compared to this one looks normal. She is having the worst time keeping him sound for basic light riding.

For all these examples that stay sound how many were unsound as a 3 year old with 90 days? (and a 17hh Morgan? no offense but I am skeptical)


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

KigerQueen said:


> . now someone trying to "fix" the foot might have caused the horse OP is talking about to go lame.


This is a very valid point. Farriers who try to make the foot "look normal" are only doing harm. It needs to be trimmed properly in the context of what it is, a club foot. If you hear a farrier say he can make the feet match, run far away.


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

My friend's mustang with a club foot always sored up on the trail until she switched trimmers. New trimmer stopped trying to lower the heel, and the horse hasn't had a problem after that. It is hard to find a trimmer at least around here who knows how to trim them though.


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

No, I would not. 

I would not buy a horse with any significant conformation default or any sort of unsoundness. 

For a few reasons. First, horses with issues usually are cheaper to purchase which adds to their appeal. However, whether you spend $100 or $1000 or $10,000 a horse costs the same to keep. It requires the same effort. In fact, these ones with issues can even require more. They also require the same training, the same experiences etc. 

Horses with issues will always cost less. If you spend a $1000 training a normal horse and $1000 training one with issues, the value of the normal will likely rise significantly where as the one with issues will likely still be worth next to nothing. The horse with issues is only ever going to be a money pit and a year down the track, five years down the track the issues can grow and become quite significant. 

For a three year old to be unsound for whatever reason isn't really acceptable. Taking that on could lead you to have a chronically unsound horse. It could lead you to having a horse that is impossible to rehome, and it could lead you to spending a lot of money with no gain in sight. 

I'm not willing to take a risk on soundness, most owners and buyers aren't either. Just consider the horse and your position, do you really want a possibly unsound horse that you may have to keep for many years?


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

flytobecat said:


> My friend's mustang with a club foot always sored up on the trail until she switched trimmers. New trimmer stopped trying to lower the heel, and the horse hasn't had a problem after that. It is hard to find a trimmer at least around here who knows how to trim them though.


This is exactly why most of them are unsound. This is also why my wise old Vet said it was not an an unsoundness but a blemish. 

This is also why all of the ones we have had were unsound when we got them but were completely fine, even for hard riding, as soon as we had them long enough to get their hoof angle right -- for them. 

If any of them had problems right after we got them, we just backed up the toe of their hoof or shoe until we got them comfortable. They were fine from then on.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

I second getting x-rays. There is no such thing as "free" lollol.

His feet need a good farrier for starters. From the top it doesn't look too bad but, he is in dire need of a trim.

He needs to be trimmed by somebody who knows how to trim a club hoof without soring the horse. That could be why the horse is sore - the farrier doesn't know what he's doing.

I said all that because I have a 21 year old TWH with a club hoof, on the LF. I have his papers so we know his hoof is genetic. His was deemed by the vet as "less-than-Grade 1" years ago.

He was been with me since he was 2-1/2 and has hooves like a goat. I have trail ridden him, barefoot, in places my other two Walkers, had to have shoes and, love his tough, challenging mind and soul, that horse has never come up lame.

I did shoe him a couple times when we were going to be in places, I wasn't sure about and knew there was a lot of rock and shale but he has trail ridden in several states, barefoot, most of his life.


What has happened over time, is the muscle on the opposite leg (the RF) has become 1/2" longer. We measured it, the vet measured it. But he isn't lame, nor does he limp.

A few years back, he did start to develop a toe crack in the club hoof and a toe crack in the diagonal rear hoof (RR). I've been thru a few farriers and none of them knew how to correct that. 

My current trimmers are brothers with minimal formal schooling and a ton of common sense, coupled with 16 years experience. 

The brother who trims this club hoof horse unwittingly understands the physics of the hoof and has, over time, completely eliminated the toe crack in the back right hoof.

The toe crack in the club hoof is almost grown out and I keep after it 3 - 4 days a week by keeping it clean and spraying Banixx into it, so the hoof doesn't end up with seedy toe. What I started with and what is left now aren't even on the same ball field. 

*Meaning and to repeat myself, you need a farrier who understands how to trim a club hoof.*

My horse been retired a few years only because I am the one who can't ride. I am lucky to have 23 acres, so he is on plenty of pasture to get good healthy exercise. He is one tough trail horse and the more challenging the trails were, the more he bore down and I just sat there while he made me look good:cowboy:

However, get the x-ray, before you take the "free" horse home, then find a farrier who knows how to care for that kind of hoof

*Another thought on the lameness issue:*

He could be full of thrush, including in the sulci. Club hooves are very prone to thrush, even on the best of days and in the cleanest of stalls. A good farrier knows how to trim the horse to reduce that issue, although it may never disappear 100%.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

walkinthewalk said:


> He could be full of thrush, including in the sulci. Club hooves are very prone to thrush, even on the best of days and in the cleanest of stalls. A good farrier knows how to trim the horse to reduce that issue, although it may never disappear 100%.


Another great point. My horse did develop sulcus thrush before I found a farrier who knew what they were doing. It's long gone with the good farrier, but club feet do seem to be a haven for sulcus thrush.


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## jessrud14 (Jul 8, 2015)

Cherie said:


> This is exactly why most of them are unsound. This is also why my wise old Vet said it was not an an unsoundness but a blemish.
> 
> This is also why all of the ones we have had were unsound when we got them but were completely fine, even for hard riding, as soon as we had them long enough to get their hoof angle right -- for them.
> 
> If any of them had problems right after we got them, we just backed up the toe of their hoof or shoe until we got them comfortable. They were fine from then on.


So how should my new farrier be trimming his club foot then?
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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

Look at the side-view of his hoof. You will see that from the hairline in front down about 3/4 of the way down to the ground is a straight line. You will also see that the lowest 1/4 of his hoof flairs forward and is not part of a straight line.

That upper 3/4 of his hoof is the hoof angle he needs all the way to the ground. That is the hoof nature wants him to have. So, a farrier needs to keep backing up the toe until there is a straight line from his hairline to the ground. You need to make him break over like he had that straight line. This can be hastened if they are shod and the shoe is set back or you can patiently keep trimming him back so that the last quarter of his hoof is aligned with the top 3/4.

The horse with a clubbed hoof has extensor tendons that are shorter and do not allow the heel of the hoof to come down where a normal horse heel does. Lowering the heel (like most farriers try to do) only strains and makes the extensor tendons sore. The shorter tendons can be acquired through injury at a young age or can be congenital and even hereditary. Either way, it usually shows up between 6 months and 2 years. 

The longer a horse has that flair and delayed break over, the more apt they are to also have rotation in their third phalanx. The ones with growth rings that are closer at the toe than the heel probably do have rotation. This also does not seem to affect soundness in a horse with a clubbed hoof. We've had x-rays made on several and at least half had some rotation.

The horse in the photo definitely has enough flare on the toe of his clubbed hoof to cause him to go lame if ridden hard. If you cannot find a farrier that will do what you need to have done, try to find one that trims and shoes saddle mules. They will understand that he needs the hoof angle nature gave him. I've seen mules with severely damaged tendons from farriers or owners trying to make their feet look more like a horse's feet.


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## jessrud14 (Jul 8, 2015)

Cherie said:


> Look at the side-view of his hoof. You will see that from the hairline in front down about 3/4 of the way down to the ground is a straight line. You will also see that the lowest 1/4 of his hoof flairs forward and is not part of a straight line.
> 
> That upper 3/4 of his hoof is the hoof angle he needs all the way to the ground. That is the hoof nature wants him to have. So, a farrier needs to keep backing up the toe until there is a straight line from his hairline to the ground. You need to make him break over like he had that straight line. This can be hastened if they are shod and the shoe is set back or you can patiently keep trimming him back so that the last quarter of his hoof is aligned with the top 3/4.
> 
> ...


Thank you, thank you! That was more helpful than some of the articles I've read! I never thought of finding a ferrier who works on mules.
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## jessrud14 (Jul 8, 2015)

Also, most articles I've read say you should take off heel little by little. Should this not he done?
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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

NO! NO! NO! That is what almost everyone wants to do and that is what strains the flexor tendons and makes them sore. If those contracted or short tendons were going to stretch and get any longer, they would have done it before now. That is WHY they have a clubbed hoof. Those tendons either did not grow as they grew or they were injured and subsequently contracted. Once the horse is mature, they are not going to stretch -- at least I have never seen them stretch -- I've only seen the horse go lame where people tried to make them stretch.


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## jessrud14 (Jul 8, 2015)

Cherie said:


> NO! NO! NO! That is what almost everyone wants to do and that is what strains the flexor tendons and makes them sore. If those contracted or short tendons were going to stretch and get any longer, they would have done it before now. That is WHY they have a clubbed hoof. Those tendons either did not grow as they grew or they were injured and subsequently contracted. Once the horse is mature, they are not going to stretch -- at least I have never seen them stretch -- I've only seen the horse go lame where people tried to make them stretch.


Maybe this was his problem then? The farrier his previous owner used took back a lot of heel at once. He is with me now and it's been 8 weeks since his last trim(way too long!) he needs one pretty bad and I'm trying to get mine out Asap. Just to make sure, I should have him just trim the toe to the correct angle and no heel at all? I see how trimming the heel can stretch their short tendon and make them sore.
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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Foxhunter said:


> If the horse showed lameness when he was being ridden initially then the chances of him being sound are remote. As he ages so it will get worse.
> 
> Some horses cope with a club foot, most do not make old bones. It can be helped a bit but never 'cured'
> 
> As to the horse with two club feet, it is possible it was lame on both and not noticed.


Agree, plus feet can be made to look clubby, through im proper trimming, as it is rare for a horse to have two true club feet
That horse appears to have a grade four club foot, since the coronary band is almost the same height at the heel as at the toe
I suspect that the horse has some rotation, thus not sound under hard work
Agree on x-rays
Charlie has one club foot, but it is a fairly mild one, and she is barefoot sound
I posted some links of the hoof board, and they are excellent far as going into grade, and pathology within that hoof capsule


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

jessrud14 said:


> Maybe this was his problem then? The farrier his previous owner used took back a lot of heel at once. He is with me now and it's been 8 weeks since his last trim(way too long!) he needs one pretty bad and I'm trying to get mine out Asap. Just to make sure, I should have him just trim the toe to the correct angle and no heel at all? I see how trimming the heel can stretch their short tendon and make them sore.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



No, you do not take a lot of heel at once, nor try to make that foot match the opposite foot. You have to obey live sole, far as lowering the heels, and you do not take anything from below at the toe, but just dress any flare from the top. There already is too little sole in front of the apex of that frog

Many club footed horses has the opposite foot develop a long toe and under run heel, and often that is the foot that first presents with a problem. Thus, you keep that toe backed up on the opposite foot, and heels under the horse, and allow the two feet to be different


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

KigerQueen said:


> nope. he is 19 year old and he gets ridden sevral times a week, and normaly not light trail rides. she goes on overnight campouts with him as well. i have watched him playing in the arena and the horse dose not take a lame step. another friend has a paint with one front club foot. no issues and i have ridden this horse, not a lame step. and my sister in law's 20 year old 17hh morgan has a club foot and never has soundness issues as well. if proporly trimmed clubed feet should not majorly effect a horse. now someone trying to "fix" the foot might have caused the horse OP is talking about to go lame.


Depends on grade of a club foot
if ahorse has a high grade, it can be very difficult to keep him sound


This is some info from Dr Stephan O'grady, who is both a vet and a farrier, and specializes in equine podiatry 

Farriery to correct a high hoof angle accompanied by a flexural deformity becomes more of a challenge. Again, the object of farriery is to load the heels, compensate for the shortening of the DDFT and improve the hoof-pastern axis. To accomplish these objectives, farriery is directed at lowering the heels, but the amount to remove can be difficult to determine. In mild to moderate clubfeet, an estimate of how much heel to remove can be made by placing the thick end of a 2° or 3° wedge pad under the toe of the foot and allowing the horse to stand on it (Fig 10). If the horse does not resent the tension it places on the DDFT, this test allows the farrier to safely trim the hoof wall at the heels in a tapered fashion starting at the widest part of the foot using the thickness of the degree pad as a guide. The toe is shortened by trimming the outer surface of the dorsal hoof wall with a rasp. The trimmed foot is fitted with a shoe that has the breakover forged or ground into it starting just dorsal to the apex of the frog and tapering toward the toe to further decrease the stresses on the DDFT.
With the more advanced cases of clubfeet, the heels should still be lowered to load the heels and unload the toe, but the addition of heel elevation following the trim is necessary to compensate for the shortening of the musculotendinous unit. The amount of heel elevation needed can be demonstrated following the trim by placing the trimmed foot on the ground 15-20 cm palmar to the conralateral limb. A space will generally appear between the heels of the foot and the ground. The author uses a wedge shoe or places a degree pad or a bar wedge between the heels of the foot and the shoe to compensate for the shortening of the muscle-tendon unit (Fig 11). This method allows the heels to be weightbearing but at the same time decreases the stresses on the musculotendinous unit. Creating breakover in the shoe to further relieve stress in the DDFT, as described above, is essential.

Here is the entire article:

Equine Podiatry | Dr. Stephen O'Grady, veterinarians, farriers, books, articles


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

jessrud14 said:


> Maybe this was his problem then? The farrier his previous owner used took back a lot of heel at once. He is with me now and it's been 8 weeks since his last trim(way too long!) he needs one pretty bad and I'm trying to get mine out Asap. Just to make sure, I should have him just trim the toe to the correct angle and no heel at all? I see how trimming the heel can stretch their short tendon and make them sore.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



No, not completely right.
Yes, you do not want to lower the heels more than the grade allows, but you do want to lower them, and then use heel wedges, if needed.
You do not take toe off. You back off any flare from the top only

The artical from Dr Stepahn O'Grady, goes into detail, and will help you under stand the mechanic needed


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## jessrud14 (Jul 8, 2015)

Smilie said:


> Agree, plus feet can be made to look clubby, through im proper trimming, as it is rare for a horse to have two true club feet
> That horse appears to have a grade four club foot, since the coronary band is almost the same height at the heel as at the toe
> I suspect that the horse has some rotation, thus not sound under hard work
> Agree on x-rays
> ...


So even if the hoof is not 'heavily dished it's still considered a grade four? I looks up a diagram and it said that grade four is classified as being heavily dished.
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## jessrud14 (Jul 8, 2015)

His foot is not that heavily dished at all.. It barely is actually.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

jessrud14 said:


> So even if the hoof is not 'heavily dished it's still considered a grade four? I looks up a diagram and it said that grade four is classified as being heavily dished.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Not necessarily, as you need x-rays and we are not seeing the solar surface either. It could be just a lower grade, that has been allowed to get away
Do you have a picture of the opposite foot?

Also, you are right< i did not consider the dishing.
Thus, maybe this link will be more helpful, as the illustration shows a grade 2, and goes into how it should be managed


Is this a club foot? - Horsetalk.co.nz


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Just want to add while I do absolutely think the OP should be aware of what needs to be done I would let the (good) farrier be making the calls here.

Do get x-rays.

My friends horse has a mild club and has had long term issues with short striding (naturally due to club) causing more stress/shock on an upright leg causing soreness overall and specifically soreness in the coffin bone causing short striding etc. This has also caused chiropractic imbalances and musculoskeletal issues throughout the body. And again, this really isn't a super impressive club, I don't think the average non horse person would even notice. Lots of vet time, xrays and corrective shoeing (every 3 weeks!) as well as other stuff (chiro etc). He's still not 100%

Hence my being skeptical, I do think he'd be better off as a pasture pet. Shrug. Do get xrays and a good farrier. Take it one step at a time. I'd get some sort of padding on that foot as well as trimming it properly and get a thorough look over by the vet when they come for xrays.


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## jessrud14 (Jul 8, 2015)

I've lunged and rode him lightly twice since I got him on Sunday and he seems to be doing ok with that so far. I'm being very careful about not pushing him too hard. I would never use this particular horse for really strenuous, long, or hard work but if he isn't in pain for easy pleasure riding once in a while I see no problem with it....
I just had to post a pic of him to show him off a little. He's the sweetest thing. Very personable!


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## jessrud14 (Jul 8, 2015)

Smilie said:


> Not necessarily, as you need x-rays and we are not seeing the solar surface either. It could be just a lower grade, that has been allowed to get away
> Do you have a picture of the opposite foot?
> 
> Also, you are right< i did not consider the dishing.
> ...




Here is a picutre of his opposite foot


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

yeah that hoof looks way off.


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## jessrud14 (Jul 8, 2015)

KigerQueen said:


> yeah that hoof looks way off.


In what way?
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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

not the best angle but his heal looks long and runforward.


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