# Introduction and pic of Strawberry Roan Brindle Mustang.



## Wiyanna

Hi everyone. I'm new to this site and wanted to introduce myself and share a pic of my strawberry roan brindle (blm stated color) Mustang mare. ) I see there are a lot of color genetics people in this forum, and I LOVE THAT! I know a bit about it myself, but definitely NOT EVERYTHING and I REALLY WANT TO!! lol


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## DancingArabian

She's beautiful!
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## Monty77

WOW! If I remember correctly, this is a type of chimeraism, this horse should have to sets for DNA, one set is coded for one colour while the other set the second colour. It is believed to be inherited, but if there is a gene for brindle it hadn't been discovered yet. This is definetly one of the most striking brindle horses I have ever seen.
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## Peppy Barrel Racing

Beautiful
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## Lexiie

She's gorgeous!!!


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## Lins

Wow, I've never seen anything like that! That is the prettiest color I've ever seen, what a beauty! MORE PICS!!!! Please? 
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## MangoRoX87

She is BEAUTIFUL!! Strawberry roan is reall normally a roan with flaxen mane and tail, kind of a made up name, so she is really just a red roan, but still brindle and cool looking!
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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

Very striking!


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## Critter sitter

Welcome to the forum your hors is beautiful.. I would love to see more of her


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## Wiyanna

Thank you everyone. 

I agree that Strawberry Roan has a flaxen mane. BLM has Strawberry Roan Brindle on her paperwork, but I take everything the BLM says with a grain of salt anyway. lol I call her a Red roan brindle myself. Chimera is one cause of a brindle coat pattern, but not the only cause from everything I have read. Chimera is also non-hereditary, while the other cause MAY BE inherited. I have not had her dna tested, but I plan to as soon as finances agree with me. lol More pix...No need to twist my arm...I LOVE sharing her pix. lol 

It was 105 degrees with 100% humidity here the day these were taken, so she was sweating just standing in her shed.


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## Critter sitter

she is so beautiful I do love her color.


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## Lexiie

:O Seriously, she's absolutely stunning.


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## Wiyanna

She was too wild to put a halter on when I adopted her, so I had them load her without one and after a year, I was finally able to touch her and had gained her confidence and trust enough to allow me to put a halter on her with no fuss at all. Now, she LOVES being scratched and strangely enough LOVES to have the inside of her muzzle played with. 

First touches....









Massaging her inner muzzle. I can't believe she loves this so much. lol









Scratching her itchy spot...pretty much anywhere. lol


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## Bridgertrot

My god she is gorgeous! Mind sharing how much you paid? I always stalk the fancy colored or marked horses and see how much they go for.
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## deserthorsewoman

She has not only thus stunning color, but is downright pretty too.


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## Wiyanna

I got her for the base price of $125 because she was 6 years old and the BLM said she was too wild to be adopted...her future looked grim. Far be it from me to walk away from a challenge, especially one as beautiful as her.


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## Golden Horse

Very pretty, love the color and she looks very expressive as well.


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## StarfireSparrow

What a looker! And in that pretty colored wrapper to boot!


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## CLaPorte432

Wow. What a gorgeous horse!
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## Bridgertrot

Wiyanna said:


> I got her for the base price of $125 because she was 6 years old and the BLM said she was too wild to be adopted...her future looked grim. Far be it from me to walk away from a challenge, especially one as beautiful as her.


Wow! That's a great price. The browns with no white go for that...would never expect to see that with her lol

Curious as well...how did you find out about her? Since I'm going to assume they didn't list her anywhere for auction since she was "too wild".


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## Chevaux

Welcome Wiyana. She is a beauty. What is her story? Age? Training? How long have you had her, etc?


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## verona1016

Beautiful horse, and sounds like she has an interesting back story as well!


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## Poseidon

She is lovely. And even a decent looking horse rather than a lot of the other brindles (legitimate or not) that have all kinds of "..wut" conformation. 

I also greatly admire your patience. Owning a horse for a year without being able to touch her takes the patience of a saint. She is a lucky animal for having you.


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## Elizabeth Bowers

She is absolutely striking!! Love it!! I can't get over how beautiful she is!! Love the pics!!


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## Wiyanna

I adopted her on July 31, 2010. She was 6 years old and totally wild. 

How I came about getting her was a friend of a friend works directly with the BLM Wild Horse and Burro Program. What he does is goes to holding facilities and picks out horses to bring back, train, and us as Promotional animals to encourage people to adopt the wild ones. Well, he had a small adoption scheduled for the 6 or 8 horses that he and a couple of other trainers working with him had trained. My mare, LeTigre, was NOT listed in the group to be adopted. When I saw the trainer, he asked me which one I was getting and I told him that he didn't have anything that I was interested in. He told me to "wait right here" and he walked away. Well, a short time later, LeTigre came running down the lane leading to a small corral and loading chute. My jaw dropped and the trainer smiled and said, "How about now?" He told me that he had picked her up in May and was planning to train her, but in the months that he had her, the only thing he had accomplished was being able to get in her 60 foot corral without her trying to dive through it. After the adoption, he told me that I was the only adopter that he was willing to let her go to, because he knew I would take my time and I would get through to her, IF anyone could. HUGE compliment to me. 

As for training, the only training she has is what I have done. I have developed a bond with her, gained her trust (BIG ACHIEVEMENT) and respect. She leads, lets me pick up and trim her feet....ONLY ME so far though. She has nervously let my boyfriend and daughter touch her. The round pen training I have done in her Non-round pen, has taught her to face me and watch for my cues. I have been on her back about 5 times with no issues, except once when my heel bumped her (ACCIDENTALLY) and it startled her and she bucked...not terrible, but I hit my leg on a pole which took my foot out of the stirrup and I bailed off laughing. I got up and she stood quietly while I got back on her. She isn't scared of having me up there, but she does not like things bumping her ribs...working on that. She is still scared, but she likes me alot and nickers to me every time she sees me.

First time on her back.









Second time on her back. And texting....lol I trust her.


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## Wiyanna

I was told that if I hadn't adopted her, she was going to be sent back to the BLM and labeled as untrainable and who knows what would have happened to her then.


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## Nokotaheaven

She's GORGEOUS! I WANT! What region is she from? And as far as I know red roan & strawberry roan are the same colour, they're just whatever people prefer to call them


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## franknbeans

She is beautiful. One of my friends just got a mustang (she entered one of the challenges, trained it, then bought it at the auction after). They are amazing animals. She is truly one of a kind.


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## Nokotaheaven

I wonder if you bred her, if she'd have brindle babies


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## Wiyanna

She's from Beatys Butte, Oregon.

I don't know if she would have brindle babies. I plan to have her DNA tested for Chimera. IF she is Chimera, she will not through brindle to her foals anyway. Either way, I have no plans of breeding her anytime soon. She needs to only have me for a while so I know She'll accept me around the baby if I ever do breed her.


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## Wiyanna

Nokotaheaven said:


> ... And as far as I know red roan & strawberry roan are the same colour, they're just whatever people prefer to call them


As far as I can tell, the BLM calls all red roans a "strawberry roan". I really don't care. She's a red roan to me. Like I said earlier, I take everything the BLM says with a grain of salt. lol


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## franknbeans

^^ that made me smile. Just because my friends (and several other mustangs in the challenge she was in) were stated to be 5-7 yrs old by the BLM, but equine dentists and vets said 10-12. So, don't count on the age, either.


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## Wiyanna

lol Well, LeTigre LOVES to have her mouth played with, so I have looked at her teeth a time or two and am pretty good at judging age that way...she's pretty close to 8, I think. But I have adopted weanlings before that they called yearlings and they still had the short curly tail and fuzzy foal coat. Annoyed me, because babies need to be with their mommas longer than that.


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## Nokotaheaven

Wiyanna said:


> As far as I can tell, the BLM calls all red roans a "strawberry roan". I really don't care. She's a red roan to me. Like I said earlier, I take everything the BLM says with a grain of salt. lol


Lol okay 
And I thought all brindles were caused by chimerism?


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## QOS

What a gorgeous beautiful girl!!! So glad you found her and have gained her trust. Hope y'all are out on Happy Trails before you know it.


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## Allison Finch

It's about TIME you found us!! I've been following your adventures with leTigre for years. I love the fact that you were so patient and went so slowly with her.

WELCOME to Horse Forum!!


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## Wiyanna

Thank you again everyone. Yes, I've been sharing LeTigre's info all along in YouTube mostly. 

Nokota, Chimerism is one cause of a brindle coat pattern, but it is not the only cause. Unfortunately, they have been unable to determine the other causes, as far as I know. I do know of other brindles that were tested and proven not to be chimera. Also, Chimera cannot pass on their brindle pattern. The other type of brindle can pass it on. When I have LeTigre DNA tested for Chimera, I HOPE it comes back negative. Then I will know there there is a possibility of someday (NOT RIGHT NOW) having a brindle baby out of her.


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## Quixotic

Wow, she is GORGEOUS! Thank you for sharing your beautiful mare & her story! You're both very lucky to have found each other.


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## nvr2many

Wiyanna, are you in Oregon?? She is gorgeous!


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## Wiyanna

I feel like I'm the lucky one for sure with LeTigre. I never dreamed I'd ever have a horse like her. I am SO PROUD of her! 

No nvr2many, I am in Michigan. LeTigre was just captured in Oregon.


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## EquineBovine

That is an AWESOME colour!


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## Nokotaheaven

Wiyanna said:


> Thank you again everyone. Yes, I've been sharing LeTigre's info all along in YouTube mostly.
> 
> Nokota, Chimerism is one cause of a brindle coat pattern, but it is not the only cause. Unfortunately, they have been unable to determine the other causes, as far as I know. I do know of other brindles that were tested and proven not to be chimera. Also, Chimera cannot pass on their brindle pattern. The other type of brindle can pass it on. When I have LeTigre DNA tested for Chimera, I HOPE it comes back negative. Then I will know there there is a possibility of someday (NOT RIGHT NOW) having a brindle baby out of her.


Ah, haha okay. Well, I don't know of any that aren't chimeric either. But just for the sake of it, here is the most popular brindle horse i know of, who happens to be a stallion lol.
Dunbars Gold


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## Chiilaa

Wiyanna said:


> Thank you again everyone. Yes, I've been sharing LeTigre's info all along in YouTube mostly.
> 
> Nokota, Chimerism is one cause of a brindle coat pattern, but it is not the only cause. Unfortunately, they have been unable to determine the other causes, as far as I know. I do know of other brindles that were tested and proven not to be chimera. Also, Chimera cannot pass on their brindle pattern. The other type of brindle can pass it on. When I have LeTigre DNA tested for Chimera, I HOPE it comes back negative. Then I will know there there is a possibility of someday (NOT RIGHT NOW) having a brindle baby out of her.


The "genetic" version of brindle doesn't look like brindle to me. I have done a bit of research, and it has only appeared on dun horses. This makes me think it is just extra expression of dun factor primitive markings, rather than any other variation of the colour.


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## Wiyanna

Yeah, he's cool, but has never reproduced his pattern (He is Chimeric). I wouldn't breed to him to try to get a brindle foal. 

Here is a page that shows some inheritable brindle patterns all linked back to the foundation AQHA mare Im A Star Moon Bar who is a brindle. BRINDLE HORSES « JUSTA SPLASH OF BRINDLE HORSE FARMS

At the bottom of the page, it also shows pix of FRS Reckless Dan, Dunbars gold, and Sharp One, who are all gorgeous, but Chimeric and do not pass their coat pattern on to their foals.

And this page compares the offspring of the mares Im A Star Moon Bar and Brenda Batty Atty, who also produces brindle foals... The owner managed to go 3 generations of brindles and would have gone further, if she had not needed to sell out her stock. 
http://www.brindlehorses.com/battyatty/webped/webped.htm

Just some interesting info.


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## Nokotaheaven

Yeah.. :/
I remember I think there was a scenario where they crossed Dunbars Gold and Sharp One, but were having trouble registering the foal because his DNA did not match his parent's. He wasn't brindle though either. The story showed up in the AQHA magazine lol.
And thank you, it is interesting 
Now if only to find a stud who is not chimeric.. lol


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## Wiyanna

Exactly right about Dunbars Gold/Sharp One's foal. DNA testing showed he wasn't sired by Dunbars Gold OR out of the mare Sharp One, even though he was. lol It was pretty interesting and even more interesting how they figured out that he was. lol That's a persistent owner to make that happen. 

There are studs mentioned in one of the links...one is a dark bay (non-brindle) out of the mare, Im A Star Moon Bar who has thrown several brindle foals, so he's a carrier. And there is a grulla brindle colt on one of the pages that I WANT TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT! He's gorgeous!!! lol


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## ArabianGrace

Wow she's GORGEOUS! 

Also I read somewhere a while ago that brindle(with black stripes not white) could be a mutation of the sooty gene?


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## Wiyanna

ArabianGrace said:


> Also I read somewhere a while ago that brindle(with black stripes not white) could be a mutation of the sooty gene?


I have read that too. We think that LeTigre's stripes are actually red over the roan...or through the roan, however that works. lol


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## Nokotaheaven

Chiilaa said:


> The "genetic" version of brindle doesn't look like brindle to me. I have done a bit of research, and it has only appeared on dun horses. This makes me think it is just extra expression of dun factor primitive markings, rather than any other variation of the colour.


http://www.brindlehorses.com/brindlehos/stallions/FRS_Reckless_Dan/dan.htm


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## Nokotaheaven

Wiyanna said:


> Exactly right about Dunbars Gold/Sharp One's foal. DNA testing showed he wasn't sired by Dunbars Gold OR out of the mare Sharp One, even though he was. lol It was pretty interesting and even more interesting how they figured out that he was. lol That's a persistent owner to make that happen.
> 
> There are studs mentioned in one of the links...one is a dark bay (non-brindle) out of the mare, Im A Star Moon Bar who has thrown several brindle foals, so he's a carrier. And there is a grulla brindle colt on one of the pages that I WANT TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT! He's gorgeous!!! lol


Lol! I think whem my filly's old enough I will try to breed her to one of them. She's a grulla/grey Nokota, so it'd be interesting to see what happens


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## Chiilaa

Nokotaheaven said:


> http://www.brindlehorses.com/brindlehos/stallions/FRS_Reckless_Dan/dan.htm


I am not sure what point you are trying to make here. The horse is brindle, but his sire and dam, and three of four grandparents are grey. We don't know what base colour is under there - that doesn't rule out dun.


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## Nokotaheaven

Chiilaa said:


> I am not sure what point you are trying to make here. The horse is brindle, but his sire and dam, and three of four grandparents are grey. We don't know what base colour is under there - that doesn't rule out dun.


Actually, If u look on the sire's side far back there is a dun, but i believe the grandmother on the mare's side is sorrel, so im betting either sorrel or chestnut


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## Wiyanna

Nokotaheaven said:


> http://www.brindlehorses.com/brindlehos/stallions/FRS_Reckless_Dan/dan.htm


Sorry, Nokota...FRS Reckless Dan is Chimeric, not hereditary/genetic brindle.

I completely missed Chiilaa's post. Sorry about that. I disagree. I think the genetic brindles still look brindle. Just not as bold as the chimeric brindle. 


Im A Star Moon Bar (genetic brindle) 









This filly is out of Im A Star Moon Bar and sired by a paint stallion.


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## Nokotaheaven

Wiyanna said:


> Sorry, Nokota...FRS Reckless Dan is Chimeric, not hereditary/genetic brindle.
> 
> I completely missed Chiilaa's post. Sorry about that. I disagree. I think the genetic brindles still look brindle. Just not as bold as the chimeric brindle.
> 
> 
> Im A Star Moon Bar (genetic brindle)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This filly is out of Im A Star Moon Bar and sired by a paint stallion.


Yeah. I think I missed the point too actually lol. Eh, live and learn


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## Chiilaa

I am not saying they don't look "brindle", just that I think they are extreme examples of primitive markings rather than anything separate. We already know that primitive markings are expressed stronger in some families than others, and can be selectively bred for in equines - check out the Quagga Project for some interesting ideas around this. For those who don't want to google it, basically they are selectively breeding zebras that have shadow striping in an effort to reduce and eventually eliminate the white portion of the striping. As the white is disappearing, it is becoming very apparent that the stripes are actually dun factor markings.


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## Wiyanna

Oops....forgot this one. He's a bay colt named Shadow's One, a grandson of Im A Star Moon Bar. He has a seasonal brindle pattern, but still a brindle.


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## Wiyanna

Chiilaa said:


> I am not saying they don't look "brindle"...


Actually, you did say they don't look brindle. lol 

[/QUOTE=Chiilaa]The "genetic" version of brindle doesn't look like brindle to me.[/QUOTE] 

but anyway, no, they are no where near as bold as chimeric and I understand what you are saying. However, I just posted a pic of a bay colt (or rather his rear end). He has no dun factor, but is a brindle, so genetic brindling does occur even in the event of no dun factor.


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## Chiilaa

Wiyanna said:


> Actually, you did say they don't look brindle. lol
> 
> [/QUOTE=Chiilaa]The "genetic" version of brindle doesn't look like brindle to me.[ /quote]
> 
> but anyway, no, they are no where near as bold as chimeric and I understand what you are saying. However, I just posted a pic of a bay colt (or rather his rear end). He has no dun factor, but is a brindle, so genetic brindling does occur even in the event of no dun factor.


A literal interpretation of my words could lead you to believe that, yes. But that wasn't what I meant, as I continued to explain in a later post.

As for the bay colt - a "seasonal" brindle is hardly going to change my mind, especially when that picture seems to be the only one anyone sees of him. Additionally, none of the horses that are "genetic brindle" have had any DNA testing for other colours, such as dun. Granted, those two webpages linked are so old that the dun test probably wasn't offered at that point in time, and no new information has been provided on any of the horses or their get.


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## Nokotaheaven

Chiilaa said:


> A literal interpretation of my words could lead you to believe that, yes. But that wasn't what I meant, as I continued to explain in a later post.
> 
> As for the bay colt - a "seasonal" brindle is hardly going to change my mind, especially when that picture seems to be the only one anyone sees of him. Additionally, none of the horses that are "genetic brindle" have had any DNA testing for other colours, such as dun. Granted, those two webpages linked are so old that the dun test probably wasn't offered at that point in time, and no new information has been provided on any of the horses or their get.


I know that with my filly, most people would assume she's brindle. some have even thought she's blue roan cuz of her greying. But in her case, take out the grey and she's a grulla with primitive markings that run down the side of her body and flanks. They also don't stand out as much, and are fading as she greys


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## Wiyanna

Okay. You completely ignored the "lol" in my post. I was trying to make light of the conversation to avoid arguments. 

The fact that the breeder that was doing the brindle breeding had to sell out her stock and I believe I read that she passed away (I could be wrong, but that is what I believe I read), would be good reason why these pages have not been updated. Also, no one knows what actually causes the brindle pattern and from what I've read, is NOT limited to horses with dun factor. I also read that if breeding for a brindle pattern, reds, grays, and roans should be avoided because their coat pattern can and will hide the brindling. I also saw pix of a solid black mare that had a brindle pattern. You could only notice it by the variation in her hair. 

At any rate, since no one has been able to pinpoint the actual genetic code that creates brindle, it's all speculation anyway.


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## Nokotaheaven

I have to agree with Wiyanna


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## Wiyanna

Shadow's One at 8 yrs old.


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## flytobecat

Stunning mare. I think I have a new favorite color.


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## Wiyanna

More pix and info about Shadow's One. It seems the earlier page was confused...Shadow's One was not a bay colt, but rather a bay filly.http://www.brindlehorses.com/battyatty/webped/one.htm


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## Chiilaa

I am not disputing that there are striations present in the coats of these horses. Not even disputing that this could have a genetic link. I am just saying that without testing further to eliminate other possibilities, why would you jump on the "kool kolor™" band wagon? The only documentation of these "brindles" has come from one person, who has a biased interest, as she is the one person who was able to profit from them. 

I have never come across anyone who has a sound, extended knowledge of equine genetics (not saying you don't, just that since your horse is brindle, it is natural for you to be interested in brindles and not delve into other colours), who agrees with this being a genetic form of brindle. In fact, the general opinions I have come across seem to be disdain and scorn for a woman who put the ethics of breeding for sound and sane horses second to breeding for kool kolor™. 

There is nothing present in these horses that cannot be explained by other genes at play. Dun can cause these striations - that is well documented. Brown horses can also often be somewhat striped at different seasons - I have seen these with my own eyes. As Nokota pointed out, grey and roan can both mimic brindle at various stages. Curlies can also mimic brindle in certain light conditions. 

I am not saying it is impossible these horses are "genetic brindle". I am just advocating for a broader point of view.


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## MangoRoX87

I am with Chiilaa.

Buuuuut...

What if there is just a weird mutation in the roan gene with your horse that is causing the red hairs and the white hairs to make stripes?

Kind of like how the whole Lp thing works. Doesn't make spots, just reorganizes into spots. Haha
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nokotaheaven

Well, the only other thing I can think of right now that ur mare could be if she isn't brindle (I believe she is though) is a sabino roan. That's all


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## Wiyanna

Oh, No, Chiilaa...I am not on the kool kolor bandwagon. I have researched and researched all color variations that I could find that could cause LeTigre to be striped and so far, I have yet to find anything that is even close to her pattern that would make me believe she is anything other than brindle. The cause of her brindle pattern is the question.

Sabino roan would be white on the lower side more than the upper, I would think, since most sabino have high white socks and belly white. So I'm not going with that possibility. 

Also, if it was just her stage in roaning, it would have changed in the 2+ years I've had her. It hasn't. 

Here is another Mustang that I own...She is a 9 year old. I never even considered that she may be brindle. Unique, with her amber eyes and odd color, yes, but the stripes seem to have disappeared in the few years I've had her.


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## Chiilaa

Again, don't get me wrong. Looking at Le Tigre, I can see she is a brindle. I was talking solely about the "genetic" brindles, and my lack of belief that they are indeed a inheritable brindle.


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## Wiyanna

lol I don't think I got you wrong in any of your posts. I have no problem with your opinion. You are obviously knowledgeable in this subject, as am I. There is nothing saying that we can't disagree. 

I understand your reasons for doubting that inheritable brindle can or does occur. Here's food for thought. If inheritable brindle can occur in cows and dogs, why not in a horse? Just because they haven't isolated the cause does not mean it doesn't happen.


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## Serenity616

What a beautiful mare!!!! WOW! :-o You are very lucky!


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## Nokotaheaven

Your other mare there, I'm guessing she is a dark grulla? If not then a dark dun? And looks like she has primitive markings, because it's somewhat similar to mine


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## Wiyanna

Nope..not a grulla or sooty dun. Smoky black. She has no dorsal stripe, no stripes on her legs...lots of funky shadowing and mane frosting, but no actual "dun factor" that can't be dismissed as anything other than sun fading.


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## Wiyanna

And thank you Serenity. I love her. She's definitely ALL Mustang. She knows WHO SHE LIKES and WHO she DOESN'T Like and has no issues with showing it. Her old owners said that she HATED them and they could never catch her....Strange, because she follows me like a puppy everywhere.  She's my spooky girl. (not spooky as in shy, but spooky like Halloween spooky. lol)


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## Nokotaheaven

Wiyanna said:


> Nope..not a grulla or sooty dun. Smoky black. She has no dorsal stripe, no stripes on her legs...lots of funky shadowing and mane frosting, but no actual "dun factor" that can't be dismissed as anything other than sun fading.


Ah okay. I just uploaded some more pics of my filly on here. In one pic you can sort of see the markings I was talking about that she somewhat resembles.
But yeah, that's kinda weird to see on a smokey black i think lol


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## Wiyanna

This is another smoky black (dna verified) mare that I owned. 
She sun faded just like my Mustang mare, except I think my Mustang mare might have a sooty gene as well. Hard to say really. lol


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## Eolith

Just an interesting little factoid about the BLM: they age all of their horses at the beginning of the year similarly to TB breeders and the like. So that's why you'll get a "yearling" who is clearly still quite babyish. According to the BLM my yearling turned two last January, but given the way he's been maturing I feel he's a late spring / early summer baby who didn't actually turn two until May or June.

Also, their "unadoptable", "too old" and "too wild" horses typically go to Long Term Holding, which means they're turned out on a whole lot of acreage to live out their lives. This is likely what would have happened to LeTigre if you hadn't adopted her. It's not a terrible fate to be sure, but I think that in the long run a domestic life is better... especially when they begin to take a real interest in novel things and activities. I know my mustang came to a point where new activities, new places, and new things became more interesting than they were scary. I think he enjoys having his mind engaged.


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## nvr2many

Wiyanna said:


> I feel like I'm the lucky one for sure with LeTigre. I never dreamed I'd ever have a horse like her. I am SO PROUD of her!
> 
> No nvr2many, I am in Michigan. LeTigre was just captured in Oregon.


Darn! Was hoping to have another Oregonian here!


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## verona1016

nvr2many said:


> Darn! Was hoping to have another Oregonian here!


There are a few of us lurking about


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## Cacowgirl

You have a very unique lovely mare! So glad you got her & have the patience to work w/her-love hearing the successful adoption stories. All your horses look very nice.


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## Wiyanna

Thank you CaCowgirl.

I think I'm VERY lucky to have my girls.  They are my sanity....or insanity, depending on who you ask. lol


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## atthe4th

She is stunning!! Good job!


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## joseeandjade11

Oh god ever gorgeous!! <3


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## Piaffe

She is absolutely STUNNING!!!


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## BrieannaKelly

Beautiful horses! Both you and they are lucky to have each other ;-)


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## stevenson

you can send her to me ..anytime ! Gorgeous. Chimeric . Strawberry roan is red roan any red shade .. light to dark.. Very pretty .


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## Wiyanna

stevenson said:


> you can send her to me ..anytime ! Gorgeous. Chimeric . Strawberry roan is red roan any red shade .. light to dark.. Very pretty .


Thank you. 

As I said earlier, I know strawberry roan is just red roan...I just used the BLM's words as shown on her paperwork when I adopted her. I also said I take everything they say with a grain of salt. lol

LeTigre has not been DNA tested yet, so she hasn't been proven Chimeric (one cause of brindling), but she is definitely a brindle. I'm hoping she's negative for Chimeric, so that, in the future, I might get a foal out of her with brindle stripes.


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## equinelvr

Hello all, I find this entire conversation interesting, since I own a brindle horse as well. He is wonderful and at this point is still a stallion. I have send a DNA, both hair and blood test to the University of California Davis and had him tested to see if he was a Chimeric horse and the test came back negative for chimerism. So my guy somewhere in his genes MAY have the potential to pass this on. His Dam is a dark brown and his sire is a black and white paint. Right now he is about 2 1/2 and right at 16 hands, so he is gonna be a big guy. I have not decided at this point if I am going to geld him to use as a jumper, which is why I purchased him, or to leave him as a stallion and breed a few 'test' mares to see if anything that hits the ground shows the brindle pattern. I though having the test done would solve the questions, but it only added more! If the test was positive for chimerism, then he was going to be a gelding very quickly afterward. Now that he has the potential to pass it on, I am at a personal loss of what is the right thing to do.


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## Wiyanna

Your stallion is beautiful! And I LOVE seeing that he's not chimeric.


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## Celeste

It looks like the two of you need to get together.


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## Wiyanna

lol I was thinking the same thing. Where are you located EquineLvr?


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## Chiilaa

equinelvr said:


> Hello all, I find this entire conversation interesting, since I own a brindle horse as well. He is wonderful and at this point is still a stallion. I have send a DNA, both hair and blood test to the University of California Davis and had him tested to see if he was a Chimeric horse and the test came back negative for chimerism. So my guy somewhere in his genes MAY have the potential to pass this on. His Dam is a dark brown and his sire is a black and white paint. Right now he is about 2 1/2 and right at 16 hands, so he is gonna be a big guy. I have not decided at this point if I am going to geld him to use as a jumper, which is why I purchased him, or to leave him as a stallion and breed a few 'test' mares to see if anything that hits the ground shows the brindle pattern. I though having the test done would solve the questions, but it only added more! If the test was positive for chimerism, then he was going to be a gelding very quickly afterward. Now that he has the potential to pass it on, I am at a personal loss of what is the right thing to do.


The right thing to do is to geld him. Looking at the one picture of him, I can see that he isn't breeding quality. Colour is no reason to keep a horse entire, no matter how rare that colour is, if the horse is not worth breeding. If he was a plain chestnut, he wouldn't be worth keeping entire, and the same rule should apply to "special" colours.

Secondly, a test that comes back negative for chimirism doesn't mean he isn't a chimera. To completely rule it out, they would have to test every hair on his body, to ascertain for sure there was not a second set of DNA anywhere at all. 

And if you test extensively, and find no second set, it is likely that this sort of patterning is a somatic mutation, which is not inheritable.


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## Piaffe

Chiilaa said:


> The right thing to do is to geld him. Looking at the one picture of him, I can see that he isn't breeding quality. Colour is no reason to keep a horse entire, no matter how rare that colour is, if the horse is not worth breeding. If he was a plain chestnut, he wouldn't be worth keeping entire, and the same rule should apply to "special" colours.
> 
> *Secondly, a test that comes back negative for chimirism doesn't mean he isn't a chimera. To completely rule it out, they would have to test every hair on his body, to ascertain for sure there was not a second set of DNA anywhere at all.
> *


This. Same thing with brindle gelding as well unfortunately. I can't really be "ruled out" ...just confirmed....


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## Reno Bay

Chiilaa said:


> Secondly, a test that comes back negative for chimirism doesn't mean he isn't a chimera. To completely rule it out, they would have to test every hair on his body, to ascertain for sure there was not a second set of DNA anywhere at all.


That right there is probably the reason that some brindle horses come back as non-chimeric. You won't always find both sets of DNA in a single pulled hair sample. Heck, I would bet my bottom dollar that you would even have to do testing on things *besides* hair (blood, tissue samples from different areas of the body, etc) because a chimeric creature can have one set of DNA in, say, their lung tissue and the other completely different set in their liver.

I read something recently (may have been here about horses or somewhere else about whatever) where the child did not come back genetically to the father, but there was testing done and they discovered that the second set of DNA was in control of the sperm (if you will). So even though the father _was_ the father, it was his second set of DNA that manifested in that area...if that makes sense. I can't remember where I read it. Oh well.


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## NdAppy

There was a similar case to that where one of a woman's ovaries was her "sister's" so her kids were testing as not hers.


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## equinelvr

I agree that is not the best photo if him, he in person does look more correct, although does not have a large hip. He is still growing and is in that gangly 2 year old phase. Of course I am partial since I love him  When I pulled the sample of his hair, I tried to be diverse in what I sent, I pulled white hairs from his mane and black ones from his tail hoping to cover a little more than just one pull from the same area. What makes this guy great is his mind. He is absolutely a dream to handle and very easygoing. I am able to work him in a roundpen within 20 feet of my mare and he stays focused on the job at hand, even when she is calling to him. I first saw him in November of last year and both testicles were dropped at that time, so his hormones are definitely here, but he is respectful. I am not in any hurry with him, since I have him here at my house and he is in a solid pen suitable for a stallion. Figure I have the winter to make up my mind on what I want to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chiilaa

equinelvr said:


> I agree that is not the best photo if him, he in person does look more correct, although does not have a large hip. He is still growing and is in that gangly 2 year old phase. Of course I am partial since I love him  When I pulled the sample of his hair, I tried to be diverse in what I sent, I pulled white hairs from his mane and black ones from his tail hoping to cover a little more than just one pull from the same area. What makes this guy great is his mind. He is absolutely a dream to handle and very easygoing. I am able to work him in a roundpen within 20 feet of my mare and he stays focused on the job at hand, even when she is calling to him. I first saw him in November of last year and both testicles were dropped at that time, so his hormones are definitely here, but he is respectful. I am not in any hurry with him, since I have him here at my house and he is in a solid pen suitable for a stallion. Figure I have the winter to make up my mind on what I want to do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Training does not make a stallion worthy of having testicles still. EVERY SINGLE stallion should be trained like this. And all of them can be trained like that. That doesn't mean he is worthy of having the ability to reproduce.


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## Iseul

Absolutely beautiful horse! I'm jealous, extremely jealous.(;

But, on the brindle without chimerism..couldn't it be a mutation of the rabicano pattern? Rabicano can display a white brindle-like effect on the lower barrel and the **** tail, what garuntees that it will only effect those areas? I'd like to see the stud colt tested for rabicano and see what that test brings in. It would also be a reason as to why not all brindled test Chimeric, in my only slightly educated opinion, lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chiilaa

There is not a test for rabicano yet. And it really doesn't look like it to me.


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## Nokotaheaven

Honestly I think she is pretty obviously brindle


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## sinsin4635

She is a Brindle. They can run as many tests as they want,she's a Brindle in my book!


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## Tryst

She is a beauty!! Do you know which HMA she came off of? Mi have never seen a brindle mustang before! Congrats on getting her! I am surprised they didn't return her to the wild for her color alone.


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## NdAppy

*sigh* I wish you people would actually READ. No one is saying she isn't brindle... They are debating if she can pass it on or if it is just a mutation with her.


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## Wiyanna

Tryst said:


> She is a beauty!! Do you know which HMA she came off of? Mi have never seen a brindle mustang before! Congrats on getting her! I am surprised they didn't return her to the wild for her color alone.


Thank you Tryst. When I called the BLM to request further information about the area she was captured, the officer I spoke to remembered her well. He told me that she was a problem during the capture (ended up with a scarred leg from one of her stunts) and they didn't want her back out there. lol I'm NOT surprised. She's SMART!!!!

She's from HMA OR002, which is Beaty Butte, Oregon.


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## smguidotti

Wiyanna, I was just curious if you named your mare LeTigre after the band?


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## Wiyanna

smguidotti said:


> Wiyanna, I was just curious if you named your mare LeTigre after the band? deceptacon - le tigre - YouTube


lol Never heard of the band. It translates to "The Tiger" in English.


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## Reno Bay

Nokotaheaven said:


> Honestly I think she is pretty obviously brindle





sinsin4635 said:


> She is a Brindle. They can run as many tests as they want,she's a Brindle in my book!


.......
Really?
Where has *anybody* said that the mare *isn't* brindle. The "debate" is whether she is Chimeric (aka absorbed a twin in utero, therefore has two individual sets of DNA) or not (which is unlikely to really exist as to rule out Chimeric you would need to test every single hair and tissue in her body).


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## Celeste

You could most likely determine if she was a chimera by sampling hairs from both colors of stripes. If being a chimera is what is making her have stripes, then there would have to be varying DNA in each of the stripes.


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## Chiilaa

Celeste said:


> You could most likely determine if she was a chimera by sampling hairs from both colors of stripes. If being a chimera is what is making her have stripes, then there would have to be varying DNA in each of the stripes.


Possibly this is the case - however, given she is a roan base colour, and the tests require tail or mane hair, how can you determine you have pulled the right hairs? Roan by definition causes white hairs to grow in the dark hairs, so this makes it very difficult to know what hair belongs to what part of her pattern.


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## Celeste

Good point.


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## Nokotaheaven

Reno Bay said:


> .......
> Really?
> Where has *anybody* said that the mare *isn't* brindle. The "debate" is whether she is Chimeric (aka absorbed a twin in utero, therefore has two individual sets of DNA) or not (which is unlikely to really exist as to rule out Chimeric you would need to test every single hair and tissue in her body).


Yeaa... I was replying to Iseul... And guess I made another mistake cuz i thought they were talking about the mare


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## Nokotaheaven

Chiilaa said:


> Possibly this is the case - however, given she is a roan base colour, and the tests require tail or mane hair, how can you determine you have pulled the right hairs? Roan by definition causes white hairs to grow in the dark hairs, so this makes it very difficult to know what hair belongs to what part of her pattern.


What about following the base of the hair strands to where they meet in the neck or tail? I'm guessing it would likely belong to the same DNA that the area of the skin it attaches to does


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## Wiyanna

Nokotaheaven said:


> What about following the base of the hair strands to where they meet in the neck or tail? I'm guessing it would likely belong to the same DNA that the area of the skin it attaches to does


That is exactly what I am going to be attempting to do when I pull the hair for the tests. Hopefully I'll be able to get enough to get accurate results. Her stripes are pretty defined on her neck, so hopefully that will help.


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## Celeste

Well we are all ready to know so hurry up.


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## Wiyanna

I would love to RIGHT NOW, but I just had a HUGE vet bill trying to save my daughter's Arabian mare. We failed.  Gotta get everything else back on track before I can do it.


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## Celeste

That is so sad. It really hurts when you lose one. I'm sorry to hear your bad news.


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## Wiyanna

Thank you Celeste. She was VERY special to us and my daughter's best friend in the world. At 34 degrees, my daughter slept in the round pen with her, her last night.  Breaks my heart to think about it.


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## Celeste

Well the huge vet bill is a reassurance that at least you tried. You would feel bad forever if you had not. I have outlived several. My daughter is only 23, and she outlived 2 fine animals. (They were old when they came into her life.) One was a tiny, ancient shetland pony that we bought for $300 when my daughter was 4 years old. She had so much fun with that pony! She rode her, braided her hair, washed, combed, dressed her in clothes, and basically used her for a barbie doll. That pony was worth her weight in gold. It was so sad to lose her, but so nice that she was in our lives.


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## Wiyanna

Everyone one that we have lost has been cherished. Her black Arabian mare, Satin, was her best friend and had been for 8 years (my daughter is 21). We fought it for 6 weeks, but unfortunately, there is no saving a 20 year old horse from a strangulating lipoma.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing

Sorry for your loss :-(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nokotaheaven

Wiyanna said:


> That is exactly what I am going to be attempting to do when I pull the hair for the tests. Hopefully I'll be able to get enough to get accurate results. Her stripes are pretty defined on her neck, so hopefully that will help.


Haha well thats good


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## Army wife

I'm so sorry for you and your daughters loss 
On the other hand, my gosh this mare is GORGEOUS!!!!! And she came from Oregon?!?!??!?! Your lucky I didn't snag her first


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## Wiyanna

Thank you all again. DID NOT mean to turn this into a sad thread. Back to LeTigre. lol 

Her winter coat is coming in and it's like her stripes are a different texture than the rest of her coat.

















NO, those are not her ribs showing. lol Here's another pic same day.


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## crimsonsky

the different colors on my appys always come in different lengths on their winter coats so that's not so surprising. does make for interesting grooming sessions.


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