# Best trreatment of seedy toe/white line disease



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi,

There are a multitude of things you can use. The infection, same as 'thrush' can be bacterial, fungal or both, and is anaerobic. Therefore oxydation & opening it up to the air is also helpful. I think that generally speaking, it needs to be dug out, as the infection can travel a long way and you won't get rid of it if you don't track down(or up, as the case may be) the end of the infected area.

If the infection runs into the sensitive laminae, or under the sole(or treating thrushy frogs), it's important not to use anything too harsh that will necrotise the tissue. I've never used any commercial preparations, but tend to find a mix of honeycomb(drained & ate the honey first!:lol mixed with some copper sulphate & tea tree oil works well. Bees wax is one of the few things it's safe to plug up a hole with - remember, anaerobic infections best left open - because it forms a very mild hydrogen peroxide when it breaks down, effectively helping continue treating the hoof in between treatments. I also use it because in this environment, the hole would very soon be clogged with muck otherwise. In a dry environment (that I dream of!), I'd leave it open & just treat with copper & tea tree.

To reduce the susceptibility of the horse to these infections, well balanced nutrition is very helpful, as is keeping/getting feet functioning well & kept well trimmed.


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## happygoose123 (Jan 19, 2009)

loosie said:


> Hi,
> 
> There are a multitude of things you can use. The infection, same as 'thrush' can be bacterial, fungal or both, and is anaerobic. Therefore oxydation & opening it up to the air is also helpful. I think that generally speaking, it needs to be dug out, as the infection can travel a long way and you won't get rid of it if you don't track down(or up, as the case may be) the end of the infected area.
> 
> ...


Wow!! Thanks sooo much! Your infomation is EXACTLY what I was after! I much prefer making remedies like you have sugested rather than spending a fortune of chemicals out of a bottle that sometimes dont even work. the bees wax is an awesome idea! Their paddock my horses are in is usually dry, it can get quite muddy if it rains. Bit it is mostly thick grass so there isnt much there that could clog it up. I might get some honey comb and keep it just incase we get a rainy few days. Im going to try the copper sulfate and tea tree oil mix today. Thanks a tonne


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

loosie said:


> Bees wax is one of the few things it's safe to plug up a hole with - remember, anaerobic infections best left open - because it forms a very mild hydrogen peroxide when it breaks down, effectively helping continue treating the hoof in between treatments. I also use it because in this environment, the hole would very soon be clogged with muck otherwise. In a dry environment (that I dream of!), I'd leave it open & just treat with copper & tea tree.


Very interesting about the beeswax, Loosie. Never heard that before. I wonder if that would help with very deep, persistent thrush in the muddy season... hmmm...


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## happygoose123 (Jan 19, 2009)

vasaline will also work the same way as bees wax


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Just a note that this problem is often never really cured but more managed.

My old dressage horse had this problem and every spring we had to go through the same routine of cutting it out, draining it and putting the shoes back on. He HAD to have shoes as his seedy toe basically ruined his hoof.

In his case his previous owner ( I bought him at 2 1/2 years old) that felt all they needed to do to trim him was to take a pair of pliers and hack away with them. When I got him his feet were a mess.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

happygoose123 said:


> vasaline will also work the same way as bees wax


Vasaline does act as a barrier against dirt to a degree, but not half as well as beeswax, because the beeswax actually goes hard & forms a plug. Also vasaline & other stuff(I've even heard of a farrier advising blue-tack!) seal the hole to the air, which actually provides a nice anaerobic environment for any thrush bugs you haven't killed, or more that do get in. Beeswax on the other hand, seals out the dirt & bugs and also continues to mildly oxydate the area. 

I have used vasaline before, mixed with copper & stuff, have only just started using beeswax this last 6 months or so(feel like a hippy, putting beeswax & honey on horse's feet!) and while it's been a particularly bad year for seediness in this neck of the woods, I am more than happy with the results. Even in the worst situations - horses living in muck, owners that don't clean out/redress infections more than weekly, etc - I've even seen improvement & we've been able to get infections under control.



> I wonder if that would help with very deep, persistent thrush in the muddy season...


Yes, IME it has. Of course there's more to it than just filling gaps with the stuff - good trimming & cutting out at least the bulk of the infected horn, etc. It's no miracle either, but I have been impressed. I've found esp this year, with hardly a dry day & even the tops of the hills being boggy(bring back the drought!:twisted, there have been some cases in bad situations that I've just been resigned to manage & keep from getting worse at least, until the place dries out. But this year, using this stuff, even most of these cases have actually got markedly better. While I think it's generally important to cut out the infection as much as possible, sometimes it just goes too deep/high to get it all without opening the foot up too much or exposing it to more infection because of the muck, so I've been doing the best I can without going too far(BTW I will NEVER invade live, sensitive tissue, only talking about wall material) and then treating with this stuff. Of course, if the owner can soak the feet regularly for a couple of weeks as well that's very helpful, but some just don't/can't/won't...


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## happygoose123 (Jan 19, 2009)

Spyder said:


> Just a note that this problem is often never really cured but more managed.
> 
> My old dressage horse had this problem and every spring we had to go through the same routine of cutting it out, draining it and putting the shoes back on. He HAD to have shoes as his seedy toe basically ruined his hoof.
> 
> In his case his previous owner ( I bought him at 2 1/2 years old) that felt all they needed to do to trim him was to take a pair of pliers and hack away with them. When I got him his feet were a mess.


Thanks Spyder. Yeah I figured it was more something you need manage rather than cure. My horse, Chucky, is really prone to it but he doesnt usually get it bad. He sort of just gets it then it goes away pretty quickly. Doesnt really affect anything. This time though it seems to be a bit worse and he has had it about a week and cleaning it alone doesnt seem to be helping this time round. Probably because he is in a new paddock which get lots of dew every morning. Every paddock he had been in previously has been really dry.


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## happygoose123 (Jan 19, 2009)

loosie said:


> Vasaline does act as a barrier against dirt to a degree, but not half as well as beeswax, because the beeswax actually goes hard & forms a plug. Also vasaline & other stuff(I've even heard of a farrier advising blue-tack!) seal the hole to the air, which actually provides a nice anaerobic environment for any thrush bugs you haven't killed, or more that do get in. Beeswax on the other hand, seals out the dirt & bugs and also continues to mildly oxydate the area.
> 
> I have used vasaline before, mixed with copper & stuff, have only just started using beeswax this last 6 months or so(feel like a hippy, putting beeswax & honey on horse's feet!) and while it's been a particularly bad year for seediness in this neck of the woods, I am more than happy with the results. Even in the worst situations - horses living in muck, owners that don't clean out/redress infections more than weekly, etc - I've even seen improvement & we've been able to get infections under control.


Oh ok I didnt realise that bees wax still allows oxydation. Yea bees wax sounds heaps better! Going to keep that on hand


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Spyder said:


> Just a note that this problem is often never really cured but more managed.


I think, esp after this year's climate:-(, that may sometimes be the case - eg. if the environment is always boggy & the horse has no chance for it's feet to be clean & dry, it is difficult to really be effective with some cases. But generally speaking, I disagree. If the infected area is cut out sufficiently, if it is treated effectively & if the feet are kept trimmed appropriately, it can usually most definitely be 'cured'.

Bad hoof function & mechanics, bad diet causing 'low grade' laminitis, imbalanced nutrition and constantly mucky footing can cause a horse to be prone to this type of opportunistic infection, but if those factors are in order / rectified, a horse shouldn't be prone to ongoing/recurring seediness, unless it wasn't treated effectively. As an opportunistic bug - meaning it generally only infects already unhealthy tissue, like thrush & frogs - I look on it more as a symptom than a problem of its own accord. Treating the base causes rather than only focussing on the symptom will yield it treatable, not just manageable.


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## happygoose123 (Jan 19, 2009)

how much tea tree and how much copper sulfate do I use loosie? Do I make a paste?


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

happygoose123 said:


> how much tea tree and how much copper sulfate do I use loosie? Do I make a paste?


Yeah, for ease, I make a paste, so it's a one-step procedure. Not measured amounts, but it's something like 300g beeswax(with some honey left in it), about a desertspoonful of tea tree and about a heaped teaspoonful of CS. The honey needs to be cold extracted, as heat destroys some of it's qualities, but if you get it on the comb, it definitely is. There have been studies done that show Manuka honey(from NZ or Aus) is best for antibacterial, but my naturopath reckons any honey that's cold extracted is fine. I warm the wax, just to about 25 degrees C so it's softer & it mixes easily.


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## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

Great information! Biscuit seems to have quiet a bit of white line that I am working with. He had thrush around his frog and that seems to be under control and now I am fighting some white line. Keeping it cleaned out and rasped helps as he is barefoot. I didn't get to do his feet for 3 weeks as I had surgery. I worked on them Monday and was not happy with the little pitty areas. I am going to get some beeswax and follow this protocol!


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## happygoose123 (Jan 19, 2009)

loosie said:


> Yeah, for ease, I make a paste, so it's a one-step procedure. Not measured amounts, but it's something like 300g beeswax(with some honey left in it), about a desertspoonful of tea tree and about a heaped teaspoonful of CS. The honey needs to be cold extracted, as heat destroys some of it's qualities, but if you get it on the comb, it definitely is. There have been studies done that show Manuka honey(from NZ or Aus) is best for antibacterial, but my naturopath reckons any honey that's cold extracted is fine. I warm the wax, just to about 25 degrees C so it's softer & it mixes easily.


Cool thanks And if I didnt want the bees wax I spose its pretty much the same procedure only with it left out. Thanks heaps for all that, you are a great help


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