# *WARNING* GRAPHIC* pasture to plate video



## Royal Pine Buck

Horrible:-x:evil:


----------



## BCtazzie

I'm going to get some popcorn...........4.....3......2......1..........


----------



## buckskinpinto

I fail to understand why this was necessary to post.


----------



## Speed Racer

Reported this thread. Just how many 'horszee slaughter is eeevvviiiilllll' threads do we need? :-x


----------



## Royal Pine Buck

if you wish to not watch...do not watch. keep it simple.

some people would like to know. I for one, like to be informed.


----------



## bubba13

Article and video don't match. Different years, different companies. Have anything more recent?


----------



## Royal Pine Buck

Speed Racer said:


> Reported this thread. Just how many 'horszee slaughter is eeevvviiiilllll' threads do we need? :-x


who in this thread said horse slaughter is evil. I personally think we should go to the SOURCE of the problem with irresponsible breeders and owners. 


keeping their colt a stallion because " he is sooooo cute! and sweet!" nevermind he is downhill and has the worst conformation for breeding , then letting them jump the fence, because they are too lazt to properly contain and separate them.:roll:




keeping a horse and starving it to death slowly in a backyard is just as cruel!


----------



## Courtney

To lighten the mood...

When asked about horse slaughter, a non-horsey friend of mine replied: "Have you SMELLED horses? If they smell that bad, imagine what they'd taste like? NO WAY."

She was not amused when I offered to let her lick Vanna to make absolutely certain that she did not enjoy the taste.


----------



## bsms

Have you ever had a dog killed at the vet's? I have - a number of times. What I saw on that video isn't any worse overall than what some of my dogs have done as I held them in my arms. Sometimes they go down easy. Sometimes they fight it. One of my dogs thrashed around for a minute, with me bawling like a baby. 

I hate to break it to some folks, but death isn't pretty. If you don't die in your sleep, you will probably experience pain and fear. Most wild animals do. Lots of people do too. Only a society divorced from nature would freak over that video. IMHO.


----------



## Speed Racer

What does breeding irresponsibly have to do with that video? It's a tenuous connection at best. If you wanted to talk about irresponsible breeding, why post that video at all? It's not important to the conversation.

Besides, we've been down this sad, tired road a million times already. You can't MAKE people be responsible, and the majority of horses going to slaughter do _not_ come from backyard fugly breeders.

Another thing, why is it that only HORSES go to slaughter? Why are chickens, cattle, swine, and other livestock _processed_, but only the pwetty, pwetty horsies are _slaughtered_?

I also agree with bsms. Death when it comes isn't pretty, _regardless _of the way it happens. I watched the video. I didn't cringe in horror, wring my hands, or cry, so whatever point you're trying to make was lost on me. I've already seen death up close and personal more than once, and a lot more bloody than anything in that video.


----------



## twh

The slaughter debate has been beaten to death (no pun intended) on this forum. Also, I think pretty much everyone here has seen some video or other about horse slaughter, and if they haven't but want to, a simple Google or YouTube search will do the trick.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Royal Pine Buck

bsms said:


> Have you ever had a dog killed at the vet's? I have - a number of times. What I saw on that video isn't any worse overall than what some of my dogs have done as I held them in my arms. Sometimes they go down easy. Sometimes they fight it. One of my dogs thrashed around for a minute, with me bawling like a baby.
> 
> I hate to break it to some folks, but death isn't pretty. If you don't die in your sleep, you will probably experience pain and fear. Most wild animals do. Lots of people do too. Only a society divorced from nature would freak over that video. IMHO.


i just recently had my dog die, i pleaded with the vet to let me back to the room he was in before he passed. i think i was too late, because as soon as i reached him he was gasping for his last breathes and tongue hanging out of his mouth.

blood was coming out of his mouth AND rectum h(e was vomiting blood and having pure blood coming for the other end).... i know the image. he passed naturally before the vet could euthanize him. it is something i wish i could get out of my mind daily.

the difference is there are some things we can help and some things we can't ...this is one of the things we can make a bit more HUMANE.


----------



## bubba13

There you go. The things we CAN control, we SHOULD.
Nothing wrong with a captive bolt, but you should have a 99% first-shot kill rate. If not, you need to be reevaluating employee training and practices. I'm on the fence about what that video showed. There are also ways to minimize trauma/fear/distress on slaughterbound animals, such as what Temple Grandin has done for cattle. I hope they're at least trying to move in that direction.


----------



## bsms

Royal Pine Buck said:


> ...I personally think we should go to the SOURCE of the problem with irresponsible breeders and owners...
> 
> keeping their colt a stallion because " he is sooooo cute! and sweet!" nevermind he is downhill and has the worst conformation for breeding , then letting them jump the fence, because they are too lazt to properly contain and separate them...


Can I assume you are volunteering to determine who is or is not a responsible breeder? Or do you want a bunch of idiots in the government, most of whom strongly resemble the southern end of a north-bound horse, to determine it by law?

I've met folks I thought were irresponsible breeders of dogs and horses, but I've never met anyone who thought THEY were irresponsible breeders.


----------



## Royal Pine Buck

Speed Racer said:


> What does breeding irresponsibly have to do with that video? It's a tenuous connection at best. If you wanted to talk about irresponsible breeding, why post that video at all? It's not important to the conversation.
> 
> Besides, we've been down this sad, tired road a million times already. You can't MAKE people be responsible, and the majority of horses going to slaughter do _not_ come from backyard fugly breeders.
> 
> Another thing, why is it that only HORSES go to slaughter? Why are chickens, cattle, swine, and other livestock _processed_, but only the pwetty, pwetty horsies are _slaughtered_?
> 
> I also agree with bsms. Death when it comes isn't pretty, _regardless _of the way it happens.


connection : if people bred responsibly there would be LESS horses being put through slaughter, there would still be horses going through it. but not as needlessly.


----------



## MHFoundation Quarters

Speed Racer said:


> Another thing, why is it that only HORSES go to slaughter? Why are chickens, cattle, swine, and other livestock _processed_, but only the pwetty, pwetty horsies are slaughtered?


Very interesting point SR. I'd not thought about that but very true. 

I also agree that death isn't always pretty even in the most prepared of circumstances. I also wonder how much of that is residual nerve twitching, muscle spasm type stuff afterwards. With just short bits it's impossible to say for sure from a video. I, as I'm sure most of us, realize that slaughter isn't always pretty but for me, I won't make decisions from propaganda videos that have or can be edited to validate the makers views.


----------



## Royal Pine Buck

bubba13 said:


> There you go. The things we CAN control, we SHOULD.
> Nothing wrong with a captive bolt, but you should have a 99% first-shot kill rate. If not, you need to be reevaluating employee training and practices. I'm on the fence about what that video showed. There are also ways to minimize trauma/fear/distress on slaughterbound animals, such as what Temple Grandin has done for cattle. I hope they're at least trying to move in that direction.


 
that would be my point for posting this video. i am not against horse slaughter. but I am for trying to be as humane as possible.


----------



## Cowgirls Boots

No matter how many times the videos get posted or the topic gets brought back up will ever change those minds who find nothing wrong with slaughter. It's just a topic that's been beaten to death (as twh said)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Speed Racer

Define needlessly. 

Fugly, as well as very well bred animals go to slaughter every day. It's just the luck of the draw which ones get to live out their lives in good homes, which are neglected/abused, and which are sent to slaughter.

As I stated, it's not the fugly breeders who supply the majority of horses to be processed. It's all those 'responsible' breeders.

I don't think any of us are for_ inhumane_ treatment of animals regardless of their ultimate fate, so other than the shock value, what was your point with the video?


----------



## Royal Pine Buck

Cowgirls Boots said:


> No matter how many times the videos get posted or the topic gets brought back up will ever change those minds who find nothing wrong with slaughter. It's just a topic that's been beaten to death (as twh said)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nowhere in the original post did I mention that I was Against slaughter.

I did say horrible however. more so to the amount of times it took the staff to stun the horses.


----------



## bsms

Royal Pine Buck said:


> ...the difference is there are some things we can help and some things we can't ...this is one of the things we can make a bit more HUMANE.


How? If a vet cannot put a dog down more 'humanely' than the horses in this video, just how are you going to make horse deaths nicer? If my 85 year old Mom thrashed in pain when a heart attack killed her, then how are you going to exempt horses? My Dad died in a helicopter crash, after the rotor came off. His death was instantaneous, but he had time as the helicopter fell knowing what was going to happen and with nothing he could do to stop it.

Death is ugly & scary for most who die. Modern man only thinks otherwise because he refuses to look at the dying.


----------



## Royal Pine Buck

Speed Racer said:


> Define needlessly.
> 
> Fugly, as well as very well bred animals go to slaughter every day. It's just the luck of the draw which ones get to live out their lives in good homes, which are neglected/abused, and which are sent to slaughter.
> 
> As I stated, it's not the fugly breeders who supply the majority of horses to be processed. It's all those 'responsible' breeders.
> 
> I don't think any of us are for_ inhumane_ treatment of animals regardless of their ultimate fate, so other than the shock value, what was your point with the video?


 
the point in posting the video was to show people that it could be done better, instead of being complacent with what was already there. 

the box should be a bit smaller so that they can't move around as much and the accuracy of the the gun should be SURE ( i know you can't always be accurate (as avid HUNTER). but i sure think it can be done much better than that.

what is the point of not posting the video?


----------



## bubba13

$#!+ does happen. Botched chemical euthanasias do occur, but aren't exactly common. The two horses I've had put down went peacefully, with just the unsettling post-mortem body tremors that appall the owner but don't hurt the horse a bit. Same with the dogs, rodents, and birds I've seen euthanized at the vet clinic. 

As for captive-bolting and minimizing stress on the horse (you can skip ahead to about the 3:15 mark):


----------



## Cowgirls Boots

Royal Pine Buck said:


> Nowhere in the original post did I mention that I was Against slaughter.
> 
> I did say horrible however. more so to the amount of times it took the staff to stun the horses.


It was a generalized statement. Not towards you or anyone on this forum. I'm not for or against it. I usually don't get into these debates since they usually turn into an all out war. 

But yes, your right. It is horrible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## mls

Royal Pine Buck said:


> the point in posting the video was to show people that it could be done better, instead of being complacent with what was already there.
> 
> what is the point of not posting the video?


I agree with Speedracer - you are trying to shock folks. For every one that goes wrong, there are hundreds that go right. The news doesn't report all of the good throughout the day, it only reports the bad stuff.

Captive bolt may become the way to put a horse down instead of using drugs. Many areas are finding less companies willing to pick up a horse that has been put down with the traditional drug cocktail.


----------



## Speed Racer

Very interesting video, bubba. 

Shows how processing an equine can be fairly trauma free for the horse. I also enjoyed that they didn't use any hyperbole or hysteria. It was simply the killing and butchering you'd see with any livestock animal.

Thanks for sharing it.


----------



## twh

bubba13 said:


> $#!+ does happen. Botched chemical euthanasias do occur, but aren't exactly common. The two horses I've had put down went peacefully, with just the unsettling post-mortem body tremors that appall the owner but don't hurt the horse a bit. Same with the dogs, rodents, and birds I've seen euthanized at the vet clinic.
> 
> As for captive-bolting and minimizing stress on the horse (you can skip ahead to about the 3:15 mark):
> 
> Le Sang des bêtes (Blood of the Beasts) part 1/3 - YouTube


That horse was not as knocked out as I would have liked. But it was fast. 

Looked like a nice horse, too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Speed Racer

twh said:


> That horse was not as knocked out as I would have liked. But it was fast.
> 
> Looked like a nice horse, too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


His frontal brain was destroyed. He was already dead when he hit the ground. Those movements you see were merely nerves.

He was an older horse, but definitely in good flesh.


----------



## twh

Speed Racer said:


> His frontal brain was destroyed. He was already dead when he hit the ground. Those movements you see were merely nerves.
> 
> He was an older horse, but definitely in good flesh.


Oh, okay. Then in that case, he probably didn't even know what hit him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Sharpie

Agreed with many others- I don't see how killing horses is any different than killing cattle, swine, chickens, dogs, and cats (among other species). It's not pleasant, but so long as people continue to eat meat, so does this. As long as death is quick and the transport there is as low stress as possible, it's better than them starving to death.

I will say that while not all of their shots looked as clean as I would have liked, but if those 6 examples are the worst cherry picked over two days, they must generally do a decent job. How many of you have seen a horse euthanized by a vet? How many of you have done it? Not much different in terms of tremors, kicking, etc. Horses don't die gently.


----------



## bubba13

Sharpie said:


> I will say that while not all of their shots looked as clean as I would have liked, but if those 6 examples are the worst cherry picked over two days, they must generally do a decent job. How many of you have seen a horse euthanized by a vet? How many of you have done it? Not much different in terms of tremors, kicking, etc. Horses don't die gently.


Jerking and spasming in death throes is one thing. Being genuinely terrified is another.


----------



## wyominggrandma

We just shot two steers that we fed all summer. Hit them right in the head between eyes and ears, the magic cross. The steers hit the ground with their heads in the grain bucket. DEAD. Now, we slit the juglar to have them bleed out. There were muscle spasms and nerve twitches until they bled out, basically until the heart was empty, about 2 minutes. Yes, it looks as if the animal, inclduing horses killed with captive bolts are alive, but they are dead, stone cold dead, the front of the brain is basically blow apart, there is nothing there to feel pain. If you look at the eyes of an animal that has been shot in the head, by the time it hits the ground the eye is blue and the cornea/pupil has no reaction. DEAD. There is no pain, there is no anything, the brain has ceased to function when it gets shot in the head, the muscle spasms and nerves are reacting to the death also.
I have assisted in many many deaths of animals at the clinic, big and small ones. With an injection, the animal is overdosed and the heart stops beating and the animal is dead. Sometimes the animal will fight the injection and make noise or move around, but they are still in a "coma like state". Beuthanisia Special is a high dose of barbituate, it puts their heart to sleep immediately. 
A shot in the head kills the brain immediately, but the body, especially in a big animal has to die, but the brain is gone already. Yes, some go wrong, but some vet assisted ones go wrong also.
To make it easier to understand, when a person is considered brain dead, but kept on a respirato for organ transplants, they will breath but have no feeling or anything, the brain has ceased to function,but the nerves and such move until the heart is finished. Captive bolts are the same thing, the brain is dead immediately and the body quits when the heart does.
These videos are done to keep the "humaniacs and bleeding hearts feeling sorry for the horses and to keep the fight alive. Like somebody else said, we slaughter horses, but process all the other living creatures.


----------



## smrobs

It's much like when you kill a snake. You can cut it's head completely off with an axe and the body will continue to writhe around for a few moments. It's just the nerve endings dying, you can be guaranteed that it feels no pain without a head.


----------



## bubba13

Like I said, I'm on the fence about the video as it didn't show much, but they wouldn't have kept bolting those horses if they were good and dead. So at least those few times, they missed, to the horses' detriment (the film claims 40% misses on the first shot....which I guess may or may not be accurate).


----------



## goneriding

Royal Pine Buck said:


> connection : if people bred responsibly there would be LESS horses being put through slaughter, there would still be horses going through it. but not as needlessly.


What kind of fantasy world are you living in? You honestly think the world is perfect and pretty? Wake up and get a reality grip! You think I haven't or anyone else for that matter seen videos like that? Ugly yep, reality yep! Sometimes emotions get in the way of making rational decisions. As it was mentioned in an earlier post, death is ugly. One last thing, I choose to euthanize but I can tell you this, not all of my horses that I euthanized went down peacefully. The one that fought it hard still makes me cringe to this day. Euthanasia is not always a calm way out.....


----------



## animalartcreations

If anything, it's not the small time backyard breeder that floods the market. It's the high end specialty breeders that breed excessively to get that perfect horse for their given sport or showing career. That ends up producing a large number of horses that...aren't fast enough, don't jump well enough, aren't fluid moving enough, aren't cowy enough, etc. Many horse sport organizations require that horses be proven in their sport at too young an age which often results in lameness or other health issues....so they are then tossed away.

What it comes down to, is WE need to stop supporting horse sports that encourage a throw away mentality and that put a horses health secondary to winning. WE need to do this, not the government, not a regulation board, not another layer of laws...WE THE PEOPLE. Ending horse slaughter will not solve the problem. Re-opening them will not _solve_ the problem. This problem belongs to those of us who love horses, see what is happening in the sport world, and say nothing. We must all take responsibility in one way or another. 

I'm not against horse slaughter if it can be monitored by a third party 24/7 via a weblink to ensure that it's quick and clean. Banning it or allowing it won't solve the problem either way, so perhaps folks on both sides of the issue need to ask a different question.


----------



## SMCLeenie

To Those who are asking the difference between horses going to slaughter, and pigs sheep cattle etc, I think I have an answer but please don't jump all over me. I am trying to form an educated guess, not stating my opinions.

To people who own horses their horse is a pet. It is more like a dog or a cat, but with a closer bond because of all the work the horse and ridder do together. When people think about horse slaughter they many of them think about the bond they have with their horse and are horrified that anyone would kill an eat such a special creature. It is not on the same plane as a cow or chicken because cows, chickens, pigs, sheep, etc are all raised to slaughter, they are born with their death planed. Horses are not, when a horse gets sent to a slaughter house it is because something went wrong, either with the horse or with the owner. As far as I can tell that is the difference and let me say again, this is not MY opinion but an educated guess as to how others for theirs.


----------



## ponyboy

bubba13 said:


> As for captive-bolting and minimizing stress on the horse (you can skip ahead to about the 3:15 mark):
> 
> Le Sang des bêtes (Blood of the Beasts) part 1/3 - YouTube


That video a) takes place in France, not America, b) is a just a taaad outdated, and c) doesn't represent the factory-like setting of a modern slaughter plant. What is its relevance to the current situation? 

_Of course_ a captive bolt is humane if the horse doesn't see it coming and has no reason to be nervous. But building a slaughter plant like that would cost more money than North Americans are willing to spend on the issue. It is just not part of our culture to care about animal welfare that much. 

I suppose you can argue that slaughter is inevitable, but as humane as possible? Nope, not the way we do things on this continent.


----------



## Chiilaa

animalartcreations said:


> If anything, it's not the small time backyard breeder that floods the market. It's the high end specialty breeders that breed excessively to get that perfect horse for their given sport or showing career. That ends up producing a large number of horses that...aren't fast enough, don't jump well enough, aren't fluid moving enough, aren't cowy enough, etc. Many horse sport organizations require that horses be proven in their sport at too young an age which often results in lameness or other health issues....so they are then tossed away.


I'm going to have to say that I disagree with you here. Little Janey that breeds her 'best friend' because she wants a piece of her to keep IS the reason that the horse market is screwed. If all the Janeys out there bought a 'cull' instead of breeding their own fugly poneh, there would be no problem. Talking down breeders who breed for a definite purpose, with a definite goal in mind and a plan to get there, is not the way to solve this. These breeders are not churning out horses with funky conformation or anything like that - they just haven't found the one THEY want. Their "culls" are still usually of high quality, but Janey has shut down the market for them with their foal that has a piece of it's mother. 

Show me a large scale breeder that WANTS to send young stock to slaughter, and I will show you a liar.


----------



## bubba13

SMCLeenie said:


> To Those who are asking the difference between horses going to slaughter, and pigs sheep cattle etc, I think I have an answer but please don't jump all over me....


This thread might interest you: http://www.horseforum.com/general-off-topic-discussion/how-do-you-feel-about-horse-104173/



ponyboy said:


> That video a) takes place in France, not America, b) is a just a taaad outdated, and c) doesn't represent the factory-like setting of a modern slaughter plant. What is its relevance to the current situation?


Not sure what you're accusing me of and arguing about, since if you'd read my posts you'd see that you're just agreeing with me....

____________

As for which breeders to blame, it's all those who don't obey the laws of supply and demand, whether large scale or small scale. And those who produce a poor quality product, and those who make no effort to screen homes (this is and the following go for everyone selling a horse, not just breeders), and those who don't bother to put training on a horse, or who create vices and then pass it down the line....


----------



## animalartcreations

I'm going to kindly disagree with your disagreement, Chiilaa. Pure numbers to pure numbers, it is the large scale breeder that has a larger impact on the horse population, not that they want their stock to go to slaughter, they are just upping their odds of getting a winner at the expense of the horse. I'm not talking down discipline breeders as a whole, I'm talking about a specific type of breeder that should be addressed other than the BYB. You know, folks who breed 100+ mares to get a handful of show stoppers, who stud out their stallions for big bucks without taking a look at the recipient mares, who don't even bother to put some riding skills on young mares before putting them straight into a brood band, etc. It's putting money and pride ahead of the welfare of the horses. Yes, there are really great breeders who seriously take the time to increase their chances of producing excellent quality horses, but there are too many out there that don't. Folks like that are Little Janey on steroids. Those who care don't mass produce, period. And consider, even with the best to the best, you aren't guaranteed the best results. I've seen some fugly horses with amazing pedigrees. I'm merely suggesting that everyone, from the small time horse owner, horse sport enthusiast, and all the way up to the top show people, needs to take a good look at the whole picture and accept some measure of responsibility instead of blaming the other guy.


----------



## bsms

SMCLeenie said:


> ...To people who own horses their horse is a pet. It is more like a dog or a cat, but with a closer bond because of all the work the horse and ridder do together...
> 
> ...Horses are not, when a horse gets sent to a slaughter house it is because something went wrong, either with the horse or with the owner. As far as I can tell that is the difference and let me say again, this is not MY opinion but an educated guess as to how others for theirs.


I'd guess pet horses, like mine, don't make many trips to the slaughterhouse. While I have a closer bond with my dogs, since they live with me all the time, my horses won't get put on a truck and sold for meat.

Not all horses are pets. Many - too many, IMHO - live in boarding facilities where their owners see them 2-3 times/month. Others get about the same use living in the back 40.

And of course, there are many horses used for sport or work. They work for food, and when they can't work more, they become food. It is a lot like living in the wild, only with a better life and faster death.

You are, I think, correct in why many object to slaughter.


----------



## Faceman

animalartcreations said:


> I'm going to kindly disagree with your disagreement, Chiilaa. Pure numbers to pure numbers, it is the large scale breeder that has a larger impact on the horse population, not that they want their stock to go to slaughter, they are just upping their odds of getting a winner at the expense of the horse. I'm not talking down discipline breeders as a whole, I'm talking about a specific type of breeder that should be addressed other than the BYB. You know, folks who breed 100+ mares to get a handful of show stoppers, who stud out their stallions for big bucks without taking a look at the recipient mares, who don't even bother to put some riding skills on young mares before putting them straight into a brood band, etc. It's putting money and pride ahead of the welfare of the horses. Yes, there are really great breeders who seriously take the time to increase their chances of producing excellent quality horses, but there are too many out there that don't. Folks like that are Little Janey on steroids. Those who care don't mass produce, period. And consider, even with the best to the best, you aren't guaranteed the best results. I've seen some fugly horses with amazing pedigrees. I'm merely suggesting that everyone, from the small time horse owner, horse sport enthusiast, and all the way up to the top show people, needs to take a good look at the whole picture and accept some measure of responsibility instead of blaming the other guy.


It is both. 

In support of your position, simply consider that 10,000 racing bred Thoroughbreds a year are sent to slaughter - that alone is 10% of the total. There is no question that big breeders, contribute highly to the overpopulation and many of their culls and mediocres make it to the slaughterhouse.

However, backyard and novice breeders greatly contribute to the problem, too, breeding horses that have no market value. Of course they often "plan to keep" the foal, but as we all know they rarely do...or can. What is even sillier are those that breed poor horses with the intent of selling them and making money...something that true breeders can't help but chuckle at...breeding poor horses will get you some tax deductions and that is about it...


----------



## COWCHICK77

I am not sure how much more humane it could be????

Like someone mentioned before, if that is all they found after 6 days..that ain't so bad. Considering a kill plant for cattle will process a couple thousand head a day. I have no idea what the numbers are on horses and it does depend on the size of the plant. 

Also I have had to shoot horses, dogs and cattle. If they have any adrenalin pumping they will thrash like that. And smrobs said the same thing I was thinking about a snake. I have killed plenty of snakes and it may take hours before the nerves quit. We had a saying about Rattlesnakes don't quit until the sun goes down.

I just don't see the point...I only hope when it's my turn to go, it's that fast.


----------



## Royal Pine Buck

goneriding said:


> What kind of fantasy world are you living in? You honestly think the world is perfect and pretty? Wake up and get a reality grip! You think I haven't or anyone else for that matter seen videos like that? Ugly yep, reality yep! Sometimes emotions get in the way of making rational decisions. As it was mentioned in an earlier post, death is ugly. One last thing, I choose to euthanize but I can tell you this, not all of my horses that I euthanized went down peacefully. The one that fought it hard still makes me cringe to this day. Euthanasia is not always a calm way out.....


 
ummm, did you even read my statement that you quoted? the statement wasn't even directed at the way the horses were euthanized... 

the statement was about how horses are being bred without a second thought to where they will end up! i think they big breeding facility and small should have a couple potential buys lined up to buy the foalt once it hits the ground. and not breed again until that foal SELLS.

that was the needless part was about too. I am going to say again that nowhere in my OP did it say i was against horse slaughter. it wasn't about SHOCK VALUE.

i know how euthanasia goes, I have seen my share of horses put down ( and even stayed with one when nobody else would!) some pass peacefully, some go down with tremors and the like and still even blink once they are dead.

my dog was even just put down (the day after halloween) . the final minutes he was vomiting pure blood and expelling pure blood from his rectum. so please...what kind of fantasy world am i living in?


----------



## COWCHICK77

Royal Pine Buck said:


> ummm, did you even read my statement that you quoted? the statement wasn't even directed at the way the horses were euthanized...


Actually on page 2 of this thread you said it could be done more humane.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Royal Pine Buck

bubba13 said:


> $#!+ does happen. Botched chemical euthanasias do occur, but aren't exactly common. The two horses I've had put down went peacefully, with just the unsettling post-mortem body tremors that appall the owner but don't hurt the horse a bit. Same with the dogs, rodents, and birds I've seen euthanized at the vet clinic.
> 
> As for captive-bolting and minimizing stress on the horse (you can skip ahead to about the 3:15 mark):
> 
> Le Sang des bêtes (Blood of the Beasts) part 1/3 - YouTube


 
THIS ^ would be fine, that was done with a PENETRATING bolt gun. it actually penetrated the brain and destroyed it. i believe the type of bolt gun they are using in this video is a non penetrating device (less reliable). it is now commonly used to prevent the spread of disease ...mostly for cattle ie: mad cow disease).

i think that they should be sure that they penetrate the brain and properly unconcious or dead before starting the butchering process. this was all this post/video was suppose to be about.

which I was going to write on the OP but I had to walk away from comp and not allowed to edit after 10 mins.

i could be wrong about the type of bolt gun...


----------



## Royal Pine Buck

COWCHICK77 said:


> Actually on page 2 of this thread you said it could be done more humane.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
yes...but the comment she quoted was about the breeders, hence my confusion. she has a right to her opinion. could have stated it kindly, instead of bashing. 

nobody is going to be open minded and listen if they are too busy defending themself. ( which is how i felt,defensive.)

and yes, i still feel like it could be more humane,certainly not the worst. but could be better.


----------



## kevinshorses

Thank you OP for posting this video. I feel much better about my decision to send a horse to slaughter last month. Every horse in the video was killed quickly and humanely. Most were knocked twice. Once in the forehead and once on the poll to make sure they were dead before going further. Like Cowchick and Smrobs, I have shot many animals and they may be braindead and still thrash around. Sometimes they are even still for a time and then start to thrash around. I won't try to explain what happens biologically because that isn't where my education lies but I know what happens in real life. I hope when it's my time I die as quickly as those horses.


----------



## Beauseant

faceman said:


> in support of your position, simply consider that 10,000 racing bred thoroughbreds a year are sent to slaughter - that alone is 10% of the total. There is no question that big breeders, contribute highly to the overpopulation and many of their culls and mediocres make it to the slaughterhouse.
> 
> However, backyard and novice breeders greatly contribute to the problem, too, breeding horses that have no market value. Of course they often "plan to keep" the foal, but as we all know they rarely do...or can. What is even sillier are those that breed poor horses with the intent of selling them and making money...something that true breeders can't help but chuckle at...breeding poor horses will get you some tax deductions and that is about it...


 
this!!!!!!!


----------



## eventerjumpergirl

MHFoundation Quarters said:


> Very interesting point SR. I'd not thought about that but very true.
> 
> I also agree that death isn't always pretty even in the most prepared of circumstances. I also wonder how much of that is residual nerve twitching, muscle spasm type stuff afterwards. With just short bits it's impossible to say for sure from a video. I, as I'm sure most of us, realize that slaughter isn't always pretty but for me, I won't make decisions from propaganda videos that have or can be edited to validate the makers views.


Slaughter of cattle, is a lot more humane usually. Depends where it is, but some facilities in the U.S have 3rd party cameras to keep people honest. Slaughter is ugly. Starving is worse. I'm not pro slaughter, I hate it for any animal..but it does have a plus on the alternatives. Its quicker than starving for a month or so. No one dies pretty. It just doesnt happen. The issue is there is bad regulation that needs to change. And people need to stop foolishly and greedily breeding. Even the best of the best do it.


----------



## AlexS

As others have said, the ending of a life is not pleasant. 
My beloved dog was put to sleep at a vets office, it was not quick and it was not painless, I had my hand on his heart and I felt when he died, and I held him before that when he suffered. It was not the image I had of him closing his eyes and going to sleep - it was about a million miles from that. 

I really don't see what posting those videos achieves, and I'm not really sure why they have not been removed, considering that the slightest snark towards other posters is removed.


----------



## COWCHICK77

eventerjumpergirl said:


> Slaughter of cattle, is a lot more humane usually. Depends where it is, but some facilities in the U.S have 3rd party cameras to keep people honest. Slaughter is ugly. Starving is worse. I'm not pro slaughter, I hate it for any animal..but it does have a plus on the alternatives. Its quicker than starving for a month or so. No one dies pretty. It just doesnt happen. The issue is there is bad regulation that needs to change. And people need to stop foolishly and greedily breeding. Even the best of the best do it.


I don't see how it is more humane, they use the same method in kill plants for cattle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bubba13

I'm not an expert on this subject, but I have done pretty extensive reading. For one thing, the captive bolt is specifically designed for cattle. It does work on horses, but not as well, as it's harder to get an accurate shot. It's also easier to keep cattle calm and (relatively) stress free throughout the shipping, feedlot, loading, and slaughtering process.

Not sure how I ended up there, and not sure what the text says, but I watched this video earlier and was impressed:





 
The cattle are still scared, but it's an improvement. And if you follow some of the Temple Grandin stuff, she's got it down to a really exact, humane science. Of course, there are still plent of serious violations at some plants, and some pretty awful cases of abuse. But overall I think the cattle industry has a better handle on it than the equine one.


----------



## christabelle

Beef is huge in America. I doubt they would invest that much time and effort on horses. Neet video though. I can't watch the horse ones. I know it has to happen, I just feel that the whole time the horse is wondering why his friends, that he was taught to trust are now going to kill him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wyominggrandma

The horse does not think" My friends are going to kill me and here I trusted them". ANIMALS do not think like that. I know it seems the horses are in a panic because they are going to be killed, but in reality its probably the same panic a horse has at a barn or pasture when it is suddenly taken from its pasture mates, or pasture mates are taken from him and the horse is alone. A horse that is put in a trailer an taken to a show alone, hollaring for the buddies left behind is not thinking" oh my, the people I trust are going to take me away and never bringing me back" it is thinking, "where did my herd go, where is my barn buddy". 
People need to quit putting human emotions into the way an animal thinks.


----------



## caleybooth

If my family was starving and we had no money, I would butcher and eat my own horse before I would let my family go hungry. Other than that, I wouldn't want to eat a horse. HOWEVER, I am for humane horse slaughter. Just because we, as Americans, don't eat horses, does not mean that other countries and cultures feel the same way. 

As far as the backyard breeders and big scale overbreeders are concerned - there is nothing any of us can do about that but change our views. So I changed mine to - I'm glad these people are breeding these crap horses, I sure wouldn't want to deprive other countries of Grade A quality 100% American horse meat!


----------



## ponyboy

wyominggrandma said:


> The horse does not think" My friends are going to kill me and here I trusted them". ANIMALS do not think like that. I know it seems the horses are in a panic because they are going to be killed, but in reality its probably the same panic a horse has at a barn or pasture when it is suddenly taken from its pasture mates, or pasture mates are taken from him and the horse is alone.



Yes it is the same panic. So what? If your horse is herd bound, you work to fix the problem and stop them from panicking. Why shouldn't we try to stop horses from panicking during the slaughter process?


----------



## Casey02

bubba- intresting video on the horse and cow

To bad they couldnt make something to hold the horses head steady like they do the cows, it seems to work nice


----------



## christabelle

wyominggrandma said:


> The horse does not think" My friends are going to kill me and here I trusted them". ANIMALS do not think like that. I know it seems the horses are in a panic because they are going to be killed, but in reality its probably the same panic a horse has at a barn or pasture when it is suddenly taken from its pasture mates, or pasture mates are taken from him and the horse is alone. A horse that is put in a trailer an taken to a show alone, hollaring for the buddies left behind is not thinking" oh my, the people I trust are going to take me away and never bringing me back" it is thinking, "where did my herd go, where is my barn buddy".
> People need to quit putting human emotions into the way an animal thinks.


Im pretty sure that they can smell death and blood. I don't believe for a minute that they are concerned about their buddy. I just don't. I defiantly don't presume to know for sure what a horse does and does not think. I do believe that horse slaughter is a pity, but it will continue because of human nature. It is better than a horse starving in a backyard, and I think better than standing on overgrown feet, in small pen up to his fetlocks in manure, but a pity none the less.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wyominggrandma

I am sure they do, just like when you load a dead deer or elk on a horse.They flare up, snort and get all big eyed cause they smell blood and a dead animal. BUT, they don't think" oh my, I am probably next.". They smell blood, they smell fear, but don't think like we do as to what is next...


----------



## Baylen Jaxs

I couldn't watch passed the draft horse after it had been shot twice. That was just horrible. If those slaughter house people we're educated in how to shoot the horse RIGHT, that wouldn't have happened. Then when he said to that horse who neighed "I love you too" I about jumped through the computer screen. 

I am for slaughter and every time I say it I cringe. But the fact is we need it. People over breed and continue to breed horses that are not worth breeding at all. Therefore we get horses no one wants and there in lies slaughter houses. 

If people were educated in breeding and humane slaughter, we wouldn't be seeing videos like that.


----------



## ShutUpJoe

This is why I left this place..... 

Okay firstly, in 2013 EU regulations will not allow any horse over the age of six months that does not have a FULL and complete medical history to be slaughtered. We are sending toxic horse meat that can cause serious illness in children, pregnant mothers and people with compromised immune systems. We slaughter horses that have been treated with MANY substances that are banned for horses intended for slaughter. The same reason why we stopped using horse meat in dog food in the 70s. Why even take that risk? 

So in 2013 all the over bred Quarter Horses and Thoroughbreds... etc will not be eligible. What does this mean? Has anyone else noticed that we've had a shortage of hay? Why? Because we are shipping our hay over to Asia in the empty containers that they send their stuff over on. The pro-slaughter groups plan to start breeding slaughter specific horses, partly because they think there will be some huge market for it here even though the majority of Americans would not eat it, which will mean that we will require more hay to feed these animals that shouldn't be here as Americans don't raise their animals for meat. Which will make hay more expensive (even though the price has doubled where I am) and raise the prices on milk, beef and have a reverse effect on the neglect cases. Which is one of the things pro-slaughter claim is a reason we need horse slaughter. Which... is kind of odd because we still have the slaughter option.. it has not went away. I'm wondering if everyone has come to realize yet that the majority of abandoned horse cases are rejected slaughter horses? It cost less for a shipper to set free the horses that don't make the cut than it does to take them back and feed them. They bring cattle back on the trucks as well so they don't have room for them. So they set them free where they starve to death. Over 5,000 horses didn't make into the Mexican borders and in Texas there have been just slightly above that in cases of abandoned horses. I'm not saying it doesn't happen in private homes, I'm just saying that you've got to look at the consequences of horse slaughter. 

Then you've got to think to yourself..do you really want that in your city? The last two plants had continuous drainage problems, the by-products attracted wild animals into the city, it brought down the value of surrounding homes and invited criminals and illegals to come work for them. Not something I want near me. 

I've seen a few..what's the difference and cows and swine and chickens... Well I've solved that problem for myself. I do NOT eat factory farmed meat. In fact I've been pretty much turned off meat for awhile. I get my meat from a source that individually slaughters their animals as the French video posted. I know the meat is chemical free, I've seen how the animals are treated and how they die. I do NOT believe in factory farming, period. Call me a bleeding heart radical... call me what you want.. if I am then I am. 

To the people who say that if this is all that happened in the six days they had the video I'd urge you to view the full report on the ones that were not shown in the video. And I'd love to inform you that the slaughter house in this video is a TEMPLE GRANDIN APPROVED slaughter house! I'd like to tell you that each factory run slaughter house has a failure rate of around 15%. Which means that that percentage of animals is allowed to be inhumanely slaughtered. Allowed to be alive on the bleed out line, allowed to bolted in the head a dozen times, allowed to break a leg in the process, allowed to have foals cut from their bellies. And that is IF they follow procedure! If not...well than more than 15%, or roughly more than 6,000 horses, aren't killed humanely. And I'm sorry... that is not a number I'm okay with. I'm sure that the euthanasia process has far less of a failure rate, especially if you have a vet who knows how to do it right. 

Let's go back to the 2013 EU thing. Horse slaughter is a bandaid that holds back the fact that certain people don't think beyond the fact that we are human, therefore we are a superior race and rule all, it is a dumping ground for irresponsibility. Once that bandaid is no longer available to the recreational horse world, due to drug related issues, then we will have to find a solution. 

Me? I'm going to continue to fight for the horses. I'll continue to put down factory farming. I'll continue to remind people that we are only temporary guests on this planet (and no I'm NOT religious). We should live how we want, speak up for what we believe in, but be willing to consider the other side. Factory Farmed Slaughter is NOT humane. It's just not. They don't have enough time to individually make certain that each animal is humanely killed. And in the end they stope caring because they want to go to lunch, because they are ready for the day to be over with. They haven't seen that animal born, they haven't raised it from day one. 

That's all I have to say and I will say no more. Some people, like Kevinshorses, are so full of your self zealous ideas that you can't see the bigger picture. And in the end that will come to bite some of you in the rear.


----------



## bubba13

> We are sending toxic horse meat that can cause serious illness in children, pregnant mothers and people with compromised immune systems.


Name ONE verified case of someone getting sick from said "toxic horse meat."



> The same reason why we stopped using horse meat in dog food in the 70s.


Yet they still feed this exact same "compromised" meat to valuable and endangered big cats in zoos all over the world. 



> Has anyone else noticed that we've had a shortage of hay? Why? Because we are shipping our hay over to Asia in the empty containers that they send their stuff over on.


I think the whole "drought" thing may have had something to do with it, as well....



> The pro-slaughter groups plan to start breeding slaughter specific horses


Who, exactly, is planning on doing this?


----------



## sierrams1123

It could be worse, look up how chickens, pigs, and cows a slaughtered.
I am not saying that I enjoy watching this, but I am SO SICK of hearing about horse slaughter, find a new topic to talk about.


----------



## wyominggrandma

Yes, I agree.. Topic after topic, thread after thread about horse slaughter. Its gonna happen folks, no doubt about it. You can feel its needed, (which I do feel it is needed) or you can hate the thought and feel sorry for the horses. 
If you are rich enough to never have to worry about keeping your horses for their entire lifetime, have enough land to bury the horses when they die or when you have to put them down for injury or illness. You can not eat any meat, you can eat meat. 
It is all personal preference and to keep posting to reopen threads is silly. A thread about slaughter will die for weeks, then somebody will bring it up again and it starts over. Everybody has a right to their opinion. 
Shutupjoe:If you only eat stuff killed by people you know and raised the way you want it to be raised, or raised yourself, thats great. But, to say 
Some people, like Kevinshorses, are so full of your self zealous ideas that you can't see the bigger picture. And in the end that will come to bite some of you in the rear. is wrong and being pretty self zealous and idealistic yourself. YOU feel horse slaughter is wrong, YOU feel that others ideas are not seeing the bigger picture. Maybe us "self zealous" folks feel you are not seeing the big picture.
No reason to get almost nasty about your feelings


----------



## sierrams1123

ShutUpJoe said:


> Americans don't raise their animals for meat.



Where are you from?
Cause I live in the south and I have been raised raising animals for meat.


Have you never eaten fast food or at a restaurant?
You only eat at home with the meat you get?
I find that really really hard to believe.


----------



## Kimmylikestojump

sierrams1123 said:


> Where are you from?
> Cause I live in the south and I have been raised raising animals for meat.
> 
> 
> Have you never eaten fast food or at a restaurant?
> You only eat at home with the meat you get?
> I find that really really hard to believe.


While I don't find it hard to believe, I know that it just isn't feasible for every American. I live in the city. We are not livestock friendly. I can't raise my own meat animals in my back yard, or I would. It would be amazing to live on a farm where I could oversee what every animal I planned on consuming ate and how they were treated. Truth is, for the vast majority of the suburban community, its just not possible. 

As far as horse slaughter goes, this topic has been beat to death. Instead of harping on a forum about how slaughter is evil and every horse dies horrifically, why not try to enforce the regulations? Instead of writing your thoughts and feelings on a board, why not do your best to see that every horse that ends up at the packers is treated fairly and dies as quickly and as painlessly as possible.


----------



## bubba13

ShutUpJoe said:


> I'm wondering if everyone has come to realize yet that the majority of abandoned horse cases are rejected slaughter horses? It cost less for a shipper to set free the horses that don't make the cut than it does to take them back and feed them. They bring cattle back on the trucks as well so they don't have room for them. So they set them free where they starve to death. Over 5,000 horses didn't make into the Mexican borders and in Texas there have been just slightly above that in cases of abandoned horses.


Cite your sources. I have never heard of this, I would think that if it were true, it would be all over the news. How could a horse not make the cut, so long as it can stand and walk through the production line? I also haven't heard anything on 5,000 unaccounted-for stray horses running around in Texas.



> Then you've got to think to yourself..do you really want that in your city? The last two plants had continuous drainage problems, the by-products attracted wild animals into the city, it brought down the value of surrounding homes and invited criminals and illegals to come work for them. Not something I want near me.


That may be true, but how would an equine slaughterhouse be any different than a plant for any other animal? It's not like the byproducts of horse slaughter are any different than for the swine, poultry, and beef industries. Any plant problems are the fault of the management, not the institution itself.



> I do NOT believe in factory farming, period. Call me a bleeding heart radical... call me what you want.. if I am then I am.


I'm opposed to factory farming, too, but you can't really equate horse slaughter with factory farming, given that equines aren't confinement-raised, pumped full of growth hormones, bred specifically for slaughter, etc.


----------



## themacpack

ShutUpJoe said:


> This is why I left this place.....
> 
> Okay firstly, in 2013 EU regulations will not allow any horse over the age of six months that does not have a FULL and complete medical history to be slaughtered. We are sending toxic horse meat that can cause serious illness in children, pregnant mothers and people with compromised immune systems. We slaughter horses that have been treated with MANY substances that are banned for horses intended for slaughter. The same reason why we stopped using horse meat in dog food in the 70s. Why even take that risk?
> 
> So in 2013 all the over bred Quarter Horses and Thoroughbreds... etc will not be eligible. What does this mean? Has anyone else noticed that we've had a shortage of hay? Why? Because we are shipping our hay over to Asia in the empty containers that they send their stuff over on. The pro-slaughter groups plan to start breeding slaughter specific horses, partly because they think there will be some huge market for it here even though the majority of Americans would not eat it, which will mean that we will require more hay to feed these animals that shouldn't be here as Americans don't raise their animals for meat. Which will make hay more expensive (even though the price has doubled where I am) and raise the prices on milk, beef and have a reverse effect on the neglect cases. Which is one of the things pro-slaughter claim is a reason we need horse slaughter. Which... is kind of odd because we still have the slaughter option.. it has not went away. I'm wondering if everyone has come to realize yet that the majority of abandoned horse cases are rejected slaughter horses? It cost less for a shipper to set free the horses that don't make the cut than it does to take them back and feed them. They bring cattle back on the trucks as well so they don't have room for them. So they set them free where they starve to death. Over 5,000 horses didn't make into the Mexican borders and in Texas there have been just slightly above that in cases of abandoned horses. I'm not saying it doesn't happen in private homes, I'm just saying that you've got to look at the consequences of horse slaughter.
> 
> Then you've got to think to yourself..do you really want that in your city? The last two plants had continuous drainage problems, the by-products attracted wild animals into the city, it brought down the value of surrounding homes and invited criminals and illegals to come work for them. Not something I want near me.
> 
> I've seen a few..what's the difference and cows and swine and chickens... Well I've solved that problem for myself. I do NOT eat factory farmed meat. In fact I've been pretty much turned off meat for awhile. I get my meat from a source that individually slaughters their animals as the French video posted. I know the meat is chemical free, I've seen how the animals are treated and how they die. I do NOT believe in factory farming, period. Call me a bleeding heart radical... call me what you want.. if I am then I am.
> 
> To the people who say that if this is all that happened in the six days they had the video I'd urge you to view the full report on the ones that were not shown in the video. And I'd love to inform you that the slaughter house in this video is a TEMPLE GRANDIN APPROVED slaughter house! I'd like to tell you that each factory run slaughter house has a failure rate of around 15%. Which means that that percentage of animals is allowed to be inhumanely slaughtered. Allowed to be alive on the bleed out line, allowed to bolted in the head a dozen times, allowed to break a leg in the process, allowed to have foals cut from their bellies. And that is IF they follow procedure! If not...well than more than 15%, or roughly more than 6,000 horses, aren't killed humanely. And I'm sorry... that is not a number I'm okay with. I'm sure that the euthanasia process has far less of a failure rate, especially if you have a vet who knows how to do it right.
> 
> Let's go back to the 2013 EU thing. Horse slaughter is a bandaid that holds back the fact that certain people don't think beyond the fact that we are human, therefore we are a superior race and rule all, it is a dumping ground for irresponsibility. Once that bandaid is no longer available to the recreational horse world, due to drug related issues, then we will have to find a solution.
> 
> Me? I'm going to continue to fight for the horses. I'll continue to put down factory farming. I'll continue to remind people that we are only temporary guests on this planet (and no I'm NOT religious). We should live how we want, speak up for what we believe in, but be willing to consider the other side. Factory Farmed Slaughter is NOT humane. It's just not. They don't have enough time to individually make certain that each animal is humanely killed. And in the end they stope caring because they want to go to lunch, because they are ready for the day to be over with. They haven't seen that animal born, they haven't raised it from day one.
> 
> That's all I have to say and I will say no more. Some people, like Kevinshorses, *are so full of your self zealous ideas* that you can't see the bigger picture. And in the end that will come to bite some of you in the rear.


I'm confused, if you "left this place" as you claim right there in the first sentence, how did you come to know about and respond to this thread? 
To the bolded, -- Pot meet kettle?


----------



## demonwolfmoon

ShutUpJoe said:


> *The pro-slaughter groups plan to start breeding slaughter specific horses*, partly because they think there will be some huge market for it here even though the majority of Americans would not eat it, which will mean that we will require more hay to feed these animals that shouldn't be here as Americans don't raise their animals for meat.


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Ok now that I'm over that...are you serious? Who in the world would raise "slaughter specific horses" which they are going to get a much lesser "meat" price for, rather than a horse they think some person is willing to buy? For example, the people down the road from me still breeding "sport horse" crosses.... (and other more reputable breedings).
Also: Prove it. Did you come upon "their" secret evil plan stashed away somewhere? :shock:


----------



## demonwolfmoon

sierrams1123 said:


> Where are you from?
> Cause I live in the south and I have been raised raising animals for meat.
> 
> 
> Have you never eaten fast food or at a restaurant?
> You only eat at home with the meat you get?
> I find that really really hard to believe.


Hell, I live in a city and I used to raise coturnix quail for meat and eggs! They're small, don't take up a lot of space and lay daily. And the roos don't "crow" like roosters.............


----------



## loveduffy

all I can say is a head shot kills the animal is brain dead the rest of the body takes time to die but the brain is dead that is why they are still moving I have see this even when a vet puts a horse down-do I like the idea of slaughter no but it is one of these thing if you are going to eat meat- I take the indians way I thank the animal for what they are doing for me respected the animal before and after


----------



## KissTheRing

*Note: Did Not Reading Previous Posts*

I would like to recommend that all videos come with a summery before hand. If a monitor would some how make that a rule please. 

I dont mind graphic but I think our younger viewers would and when someone puts a video like this on here, without a COMPLETE warning, it could end up bad.


----------



## smrobs

I guess there aren't many people who are aware of the horse feedlots all over the country :?. You know, those places where horses (and other animals) are taken by kill buyers after auction to fatten them up and give them time to metabolize any and all drugs out of their system before they are slaughtered....


----------



## Sharpie

Of course there are horse feedlots. I know one "rescue" that works with a feedlot- they try out horses that are there and advertise or buy the ones that are in decent health, good temperament, and have training for a set amount over what the owner will make on their meat price. Works out quite well in some ways, though it's not a job I'd be able to handle on a regular basis.


----------



## COWCHICK77

^^^ Sharpie and smrobs are right.
Also they don't reject horses at the plant just like they don't with cattle, however it is required
that they are able to walk off of the truck. No down cattle/horses.

The hay shortage is due to drought like Bubba said, not because we ship it all overseas. We do ship hay over there but not all. I believe most of it is Dairy test hay that you cant feed to horses anyhow.

I would love to know where Shutupjoe gets his info....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Courtney

As far as I'm concerned, there will always be slaughter. It's what happens, people need to eat and there are processes in place to ensure that the meat we buy is safe for consumption. That is why animals are slaughtered the way they are, and hung to bleed out. As much as I love horses, it is hard to differentiate that meat from deer, moose or cow. It is a source of food and although it's a little strange to us as equestrians... it's not a new practice. Just take a look at other countries and cultures - some cultures would much rather eat dog than cow, while others consider horse a delicacy. I know a few people who LOVE to eat kangaroo and snake, while others gag at the thought of eating chicken. 

As for death not being gentle (I'm going a few pages back), maybe I've been lucky, but the animals I've had to euthanize have gone peacefully. Whenever I have to make the choice to euthanize one of my ailing pets, I ask that the animal is anesthetized first so they are sleeping peacefully. If they are very ill, the anesthesia will typically stop their heart before the vet even has the final needle ready. For all intents and purposes, they die in their sleep. I've only had three of my animals die without my help and I can assure you... I'm still trying to rid my memory of that image. When Hemi (my hedgehog died), the last thing I remember is her going into convulsions, biting her tongue and squealing because she was in such an extreme amount of pain. When she died, her quills were standing straight up and she looked as if she was steadying herself for a fight. Her mouth was wide open and during one convulsion, she had managed to bite down on something hard and break every single one of her teeth. Her legs were splayed and every single toe spread wide apart... Five years later, I still cringe when I think of the fear and pain that enveloped her final moments. When Cuda and Kismet, two more of my hedgehogs, died, they died in their sleep and were completely relaxed. Cuda had his head rested on the stand of his wheel and Kismet was stretched out in her sleeping bag. They were the lucky ones... they passed naturally, instantly, in their sleep.


----------



## Can He Star

may i ask why on earth you would post a video of such a awful thing!!!!!
it is not necesary at all and is quite disturbing to watch. !!!!!im sure there are enough threads on here adressing that without the need for more !


----------



## kevinshorses

May I ask why on earth you would watch it if you knew it would offend you? And why on earth should anyone care about offending you?


----------

