# This guy drives me crazy



## Regula (Jan 23, 2012)

Sorry, just a little rant.

I have no idea why, but my facebook feed keeps showing me ads for this guy I am not going to name here. I'm sure people who get the same ads will know who I mean. Anyways, this guy advertises his book about gentle horse training,and every single photo he posts of himself I go "ugh". 
The latest is of him sitting on a horse like a bag of potatoes, with his back rounded, legs stretched way forward and hands almost at his knees. 
He had another post talking about soft hands with an image of him ripping at a horse's face and the snaffle bit pulled through the horse's mouth to one side. I actually commented on that one (in a polite manner), but of course it got deleted right away. All the comments that remain are about how awesome he is.

If I had ever considered buying his book, now I sure don't anymore.

Just no.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rocky pony (Oct 5, 2007)

Might as well say who you're talking about because I can think of at least two people this could be referring to.


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## Regula (Jan 23, 2012)

Neil Davies
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Regula said:


> Neil Davies
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Never heard of him, but then I avoid Facebook most times!


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## kewpalace (Jul 17, 2013)

I do go on FB, which is my primary contact to alot of horse goings-on and I've never heard of him either. Googled him and am not impressed. But looks like he's in Malibu & Australia! So must be doing something right, LOL ...


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

never heard of him either. and I fb plenty.


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

I googled his name and watched some of the videos on his site. Pretty standard stuff, but I disagree with him riding in a bareback pad on the horse's first rides. It may be impressive to the layman, but he does a lot of bouncing during the trot. With stirrups he'd be better able to post, as well as keep himself in a better position in case the horse made a sudden move. 

As far as the rounded back, it may be something he can't help if he's older, or has been injured before. A lot of older people develop something like a "dowager's hump", and I know several older men who look like they are hunched or stooped.


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## Dreamcatcher5 (May 15, 2012)

He's one of the members in the advice column in NZ Horse&Pony magazine, which I read frequently. In the most recent issue there was a question about teaching a Standardbred ex-pacer to jump. 

Instead of actually giving advice, the guy just started going on and on about how Standardbreds shouldn't be taught how to jump, since most of them can't even trot or canter. He wrote that some Standies could become reliable riding horses but their trot and canter would never be good. 

Oh really? So are you saying my Standardbred gelding is not actually a Standardbred? :wink:



Okay, Standardbred-obsessed rant over


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Lol how can they not trot? That doesn't make sense...

I at least get the "theory" for the canter but trotting? Really?


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## Dreamcatcher5 (May 15, 2012)

He was saying something about their genetic makeup not allowing them to have a good trot or canter because pacing is hard wired into their brain. 

Which makes some sense but just because a horse is trained to pace doesn't mean they can't trot too...? It's like "just because you trained your horse to canter doesn't mean that now he's going to canter every time you ask him to trot." It's the same with pacing. Trotting is a different gait, and even though it's not allowed on the track, the horse can learn that off the track this gait is allowed.
I mean, my sister got her little Standie gelding when he was 17, and he had received no proper schooling after racing for a whole apart from the odd trail ride. It took some time, but now, at 19 years of age, his "hard-wired pacing brain" lets him trot and canter under saddle and pop the occasional low jump. 

That part of the column just really bothered me because it might put people off getting off track Standies, and there's really so many of them that have awesome potential.


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## Regula (Jan 23, 2012)

This was the picture that he used for his post about light hands and how curb bits shouldn't be used...
(Photo is from his website, not sure if it's ok to post it here or if I should use a link instead)









_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

SBs are either trotters or pacers. It can take a year to rebuild muscles if retraining a pacer to trot. What we'll often see is the horse reverting back if suddenly upset but that can be temporary if trained right.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Edward Gal on Tolitas:










OK, he looks better than the old guy. Maybe. Don't like to see a curb bit with shanks nearly parallel to the ground. I have no idea what the old guy was trying to show in the picture in the previous post, so I don't know if it makes any sense or not.

But I went to his website and did some reading. I don't agree with it all, but I don't disagree with it all either. For example:"_A horse has no understanding of good or bad. He doesn’t know what we think is appropriate or inappropriate. When a certain response relieves pressure once, he’ll use it next time. If it works again, it’s reinforced in his mind. If it keeps working, the horse will keep using the same response_." Fear Free Horse Training with Neil Davies​I agree. Even when a horse knows what is wanted and CAN do it, and refuses - the rider can then either train the horse that refusing does not work, or train the horse that the horse is the boss. Either way, though, the horse is not being "naughty".OTOH: "So-called “desensitisation” is another example of pressure being applied when horses have no idea how to find relief. Horses are under pressure when flags and tarps are flapped around. Whether the horse stands, moves or rushes away, the trainer keeps flapping. There’s no logical way for the poor horse to relieve the pressure of the continuous flapping." Fear Free Horse Training with Neil Davies​I'm not a fan of doing a lot of desensitization, but the whole point of it is to teach the horse that what seems like "pressure" IS best ignored - ie, what seems tough is really easy if you just relax. I don't see a lot of reason to desensitize a horse to tarps, but I'm trying to desensitize Bandit to trash cans, garage doors opening, gun shots (hunting season), etc. I also like curb bits and see value in a round pen if it is used correctly - for a specific short term training goal.

But I don't see much reason to get upset with the guy. I'm sure a lot of folks would say his heels are too far forward. I often ride with my heels forward as a conscious decision about what works best for me, my saddle and my horse where we ride. Others will say I suck at riding. Oh well.

I don't like pictures of folks riding with contact all the time. I don't see why it would be needed and I don't enjoy watching it done. But millions of riders do it. Riding with constant contact is desired by a lot of folks. Having a horse with its face vertical annoys me, yet a lot of folks desire it. So...I try to ignore it. Not my horse, not my decision. Do it while on my horses and I'll tell you to stop. Your horse, though, your choice.

I don't know how facebook works, but I try to ignore all ads on the Internet. I guess you could say I've desensitized myself...:wink:


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

Anyone can be an expert on line.


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## BreezylBeezyl (Mar 25, 2014)

Regula said:


> This was the picture that he used for his post about light hands and how curb bits shouldn't be used...
> (Photo is from his website, not sure if it's ok to post it here or if I should use a link instead)
> 
> 
> ...


I had a pretty good idea who you were talking about in your OP, this confirms it.

Yeah, I saw this photo a few weeks back and lol'd. He preaches about the importance of soft hands, but look at how tight those reins are! This is a horse who is being worked on the front ONLY. This horse is on the forehand because the rider isn't teaching it to use its back, and because the inside rein is being PULLED down. I've been taught to LIFT the inside rein, to lift the horse's shoulder and bring the horse up. And of course, this can only work if the horse is using its hind end.

He doesn't have soft hands. He takes a hold and pulls, and gives no release.

Based on some of his 'historical' posts, he looks like a cowboy who can teach a horse to work in a feedlot and that's about it. I'd never trust him to work my horse in an arena for direct reining at all.


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

Gaited horses are discouraged from trotting often, but that doesn't mean they can't do it. They can have a harder time with the canter because they have a tendency to shift leads.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"He takes a hold and pulls, and gives no release."

From a still picture, one cannot tell. This is a screen capture of the same horse & rider on what he describes as the next lesson:










https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bijm36rZm3E

I'll delete the picture in a few weeks since this isn't something I feel the need to save. I don't want to defend the guy since I don't know him and I disagree with some of what he writes. But really...doesn't seem to me he is some evil person, nor a pee-poor rider. I'm not going to buy his book because I have a lot of books and his doesn't interest me, but I'm not sure why he deserves such condemnation. I've seen stuff that bothers me more watching top competitive riders...

If you don't want to buy his book, don't.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Yes but Standardbreds have trotters and pacers and race both trotters and pacers. If you have a horse that trots it won't want to pace any more than a pacer wants to trot.

I do get the theory and how it applies to canter at least but am missing the trotting part as plenty of STBDs are trotters and not pacers. Pacers get the focus because it is "unusual" but that doesn't mean they all pace.

Obviously the trotters will be perfectly able to trot!! XD

That's the part I don't even understand, clearly he doesn't know the breed at all let alone to make a comment like that!


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

Yogiwick said:


> Yes but Standardbreds have trotters and pacers and race both trotters and pacers. If you have a horse that trots it won't want to pace any more than a pacer wants to trot.
> 
> I do get the theory and how it applies to canter at least but am missing the trotting part as plenty of STBDs are trotters and not pacers. Pacers get the focus because it is "unusual" but that doesn't mean they all pace.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the clarification! I have only seen Standardbreds that trot (like mine). They are used as buggy horses by many Amish people in my part of the country. I thought the pacing gait was inherited, not taught. My mare canters just fine (OK, she is only half Standie) and I know others that have no problem with the 3 gaits.


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## LilyandPistol (Dec 2, 2014)

Found him on Facebook, left a few *polite* comments.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Whinnie said:


> Thanks for the clarification! I have only seen Standardbreds that trot (like mine). They are used as buggy horses by many Amish people in my part of the country. I thought the pacing gait was inherited, not taught. My mare canters just fine (OK, she is only half Standie) and I know others that have no problem with the 3 gaits.


All horses have a tendency to either trot or pace and all those in between gaits have a tendency towards one or the other. Some are more firmly cemented than others.

Now for a racer they don't want them to break and are taught to go as fast as possible within gait without breaking into a canter. Therefore teaching a horse to canter after it has been trained thoroughly not to would be more difficult than a horse that hadn't had that. Definitely not impossible though.. and of course a trotter would be perfectly able to trot!

Actually did some googling as I responded last night and found this pretty interesting: All About Standardbreds: The difference between a pacer and a trotter

Even if you insist it's a "purebred" STBD thing (you said your mare is 1/2) that's still not realistic as while there is a truth behind it, it would only apply to racers.

I don't understand the purpose of teaching a trotter to pace/vice versa. They are two versions of the same gait essentially and unless you have a truly gaited horse (like my MFT who does every gait under the sun and comes up with some of his own lol) just let your horse do their version so you will have walk/trot OR pace/canter. Shrug. Maybe that's just me lol.

But while training can reinforce something you can also untrain that. Peoople can even train gaits so why can't you just retrain.

Again I get the theory and agree with it to an extent but to make black and white blanket statements is just inaccurate.


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## LilyandPistol (Dec 2, 2014)

Yeah, he deleted my comments too. Oh well. I couldn't care less. XD


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