# Best breeds for endurance or competitive trail



## Reflections

I have ridden horses for many years and competed mostly in dressage. I used to trail ride and drive too. My horse died in the spring after owning her for 23 years. I am just starting to think about buying another horse. My horse was an Arab/Trakehner cross and she did very well in dressage, but she was always hot on trails. Now that I am getting older, I'd like to get a quieter horse.

I plan on doing mostly trail riding, and maybe working up to endurance or competitive trail (neither of which I know much about). I have only ridden a TWH a couple of times, and it seemed like I would need to learn to ride all over again to ride a gaited horse correctly . So I've been thinking I should get something like a quarter horse, because they tend to be quieter than Arabs. Looking on the internet though, it didn't seem that quarter horses are usually suited for endurance. 

I have been enjoying looking at ads for horses for sale, but now I need to narrow down what I am looking for. Disposition is most important to me. I had a bad fall many years ago when my friend's horse bolted and I was dragged. I refused to stop riding, but it took me 10 years of riding 4-5 times a week before I wouldn't tense up every time a horse made a sudden move at a canter. I have improved a great deal, but some of that fear is still there. So I don't want a spooky horse. But after riding dressage for so many years, I still want a horse that will move along at a good clip. I know very little about endurance or competitive trail, but they interest me and I would like to have that option available with my new horse. I am competitive, so my goal would be to finish well if I do end up competing. 

So . . . what breeds tend to do well in endurance and competitive trail? Are their specific traits or conformation I should look for when buying a horse for endurance or competitive trail? How about age? How old should a horse be to start training, and how old is too old?

Thank you!

Mary


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## QOS

Mary, any horse can compete - if your objective is just to compete and not win. To ride and finish is to win for some. I am trying to get up the cajones to ride in a Limited Distance ride. I do ride a QH and my partner in crime for endurance training rides an Arabian. Not all Arabians are hot - some are a little quieter. My horse is stabled at an Arabian ranch so I am around them all the time. Find a horse that you are comfortable with and get out on those trails. I so understand the tense up...I had a bad spill myself and have spent the past 3 years trying to not get anxious or scared at times. Working on it - haven't totally mastered it but hey...I am making strides by leaps and bounds. Now if it would just stop raining and I could get out and ride!!!


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## phantomhorse13

Reflections said:


> I am competitive, so my goal would be to finish well if I do end up competing.
> 
> So . . . what breeds tend to do well in endurance and competitive trail? Are their specific traits or conformation I should look for when buying a horse for endurance or competitive trail? How about age? How old should a horse be to start training, and how old is too old?


If you want to be competitive, then finding an arab or part-arab gives you the best chance. There are certainly other breeds that can do well, but in general, the most competitive horses have arab blood (rather like saying you can run barrels with a non-stock horse.. but it's going to be a lot harder to find a welsh pony who can be highly competitive versus looking for a QH).

For me, I like a horse with a decent amount of bone and good overall balance. Age isn't as big of a factor, though your horse has to be 4 to do limited distance and 5 to do endurance. You are not going to find a "seasoned" endurance horse much younger than 7 or so because of that. As for the older end of the age range.. that just depends on the horse. There are a couple horses in their 20s in my region which consistently finish endurance rides (but note I said finish, not win).

From your post, it seems like focusing on a horse with a personality you like/can trust will be the most important to you.


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## DancingArabian

Basically what the others have said.

Remember that in a group setting many horses are different than when alone. My Arab is very mellow when we ride alone but add in other horses and he gets hot. If its one other horse and it's a pokey fella my horse keeps it together but add in horses that want to go and m horse wants to GO GO GO. His acrobatics look really flashy but they are actually really easy to sit out - his Dressage training makes him lift his back and really use his hind end so his leaps are not hard to ride. My horse under many circumstances is so mellow that people comment on it! I tell them to reserve their opinion until we're moving!

Basically while Arabs can be hot, how they express it will vary. My horse likes to canter in place which is pretty harmless. Some horses will try to run through the bit, something which is more concerning. Best thig to do is to find a farm that specializes in endurance Arabs and go from there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jillybean19

Forgive me if I say something that seems obvious - having given lessons for a while now, you never know what people will assume about horses 



Reflections said:


> I'd like to get a quieter horse...So I've been thinking I should get something like a quarter horse, because they tend to be quieter than Arabs. Looking on the internet though, it didn't seem that quarter horses are usually suited for endurance.


- I've been raised with quarter horses. Yes, quarter horses have been the quietest "just do it" horses I've worked with - but I've also had one that was out of cutting stock that was HOT HOT HOT, as many lines are bred to be. As others have said, it all depends on the horse, not necessarily the breed. And while quarter horses are quiet, their spooks are in quality and many, once the rare spook comes, loose it and it's hard to get them over it. My arab, who I LOVE on the trial, spooks or shys occasionally (which is HUGE because he used to set back at the squeak of a gate!), he's so smart and works through it now. Basically, if I say it's ok, he knows it's ok. So it just all depends.

As for endurance ability, I believe endurance news just ran an article about some of the regular 100-miler draft horses, and I know a few ladies that ride drafts on our rides as well as a few ponies! If a draft can do it, any breed can. And any horse, conditioned sufficiently, can complete an LD. However, NOT every horse can be competitive, and not every horse can complete the 50+ endurance rides. Traits in these horses include an efficient mover (with more forward movement rather than an "upward" movement - this depends on the shoulder), good conformation of course (particularly in the legs), and a general willingness and happiness to just keep going. Trust me, you don't want a happy horse for the first loop, who thinks the vet check means they're done, and then you still have 15-25 miles of fighting your ****ed off horse after he realizes the vet check was NOT the end of the ride.



Reflections said:


> But after riding dressage for so many years, I still want a horse that will move along at a good clip.


Some quarter horses will, others won't. Again, see how efficiently they move, particularly at a trot. If you have to push, push, push to get them into a working trot (approx 8-9mph), it's not going to be a fun ride for either of you. I.e., don't get a western pleasure jogger  On the other hand, one girl I know has to hold her quarter horse back because she trots so fast I have to lope behind her (thus why I started riding on my own - this was not good for my horse). Starting out, though, you don't want to be going that fast because you'll ruin your horse. Build slowly but surely 



Reflections said:


> I know very little about endurance or competitive trail, but they interest me and I would like to have that option available with my new horse. I am competitive, so my goal would be to finish well if I do end up competing.


Going into endurance with this mindset is dangerous. Even if your horse can be competitive right off the bat, it's not necessarily the best to let them do so. You can really do some damage. It takes time to build the muscle, lungs, and eventually the bone density required to prevent sprains and stressed ligaments, worst case scenario hurt the bones. This can only come with time. I've been told it takes 3 years of regular endurance to build a 100-miler horse. Until then, just admire the people who've worked hard to get there.

The best advice I got was to treat actual rides like a really long conditioning session. Eventually you'll "accidentally" top 10. There are two kinds of riders - those that compete for miles and those that compete for placings. Usually, these are two different riders and don't mesh well. The people I've worked with that are very competitive only ride the rides they think they're going to win (based on terrain, time, who's competing, etc), and pass up all the others. They've also been doing this for years and years - most around here since the 80's and even 70's. Unfortunately, we had quite the scare at the last ride when one seasoned rider won the 50 two days in a row. Minutes after the final vet check on the second race, the horse went severely downhilll and was in danger of dying for the remainder of the day. And when you're in the middle of nowhere for a ride, you do not want to need a vet. The vets there do not have all the resources they'd normally have, and treating a horse is their worst case scenario. The guy almost lost his horse - and the same guy DID lose a horse a couple of years ago at a ride. Please don't become this kind of rider.

Want to be competitive right from the start? Compete for turtle (last place) - it's quite a nice ride when you're not stressed about everything else, including overriding your horse, and you still get a prize! Turtle can get pretty competitive, at least around here - one time a few riders hid off-trail and waited for a friend of theirs (who ALWAYS got turtle) to pass them - it was quite a shock at the award ceremony when she thought she'd gotten it again until they announced it!

As the AERC motto goes, "To finish is to win."



Reflections said:


> How about age? How old should a horse be to start training, and how old is too old?


They can do LD's at 4 (based on actual birthday, not Jan 1); They can do endurance rides (50+) at 5. If you plan on doing the higher milage (like 100's), I'm told you want to wait until they're 9 or so to fully mature. It's a whole new ballgame when you start talking about "training" and how young is too young - I'll leave that debate to the training forum. But for beginning an endurance horse, I think 6 or 7 is about ideal for starting conditioning, but definitely no younger than 4 for LD conditioning (I personally think that is too young though, especially for Arabs who mature later) or 5 for endurance since that's the limits you have to follow anyway. I've seen horses into their early 20's competing on endurance rides, and a few in mid 20's doing LD's, but it all depends on how hard you've ridden your horse. If you've ridden hard, your horse will not last as long in life. I personally want to go for the decade team - at least one 50+ mile endurance ride with the same horse and rider for ten years in a row. I won't make it there if I'm shooting to win all the time.

Anyways, that's my 2 cents. My biggest fear is people getting into endurance and just going about it all on their own and then ruining or injuring their horses. This is one of the most extreme equine sports and we ask so much of our horses - everything has to be done with the horse's health as top priority. Once it stops being the priority, you move closer to loosing a horse at the ride. Above all, find a good mentor that has goals similar to you and has ridden for years - as in at least a decade. You can find people who've competed for much longer. Good luck


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## Reflections

Thank you everyone for the detailed answers! They have given me lots to think about.

I think I wasn't clear when I mentioned being competitive. I didn't mean competitive right away. I meant trying to get a horse that was closer to being physically able to do well. e.g. I owned my horse's mother (1/2 Arab, 1/2 quarter horse) and showed her dressage, then bred her to a Trakehner because I wanted better conformation for dressage. I owned her foal for 23 years, and we did better than I ever dreamed we could, because she had the conformation to do well in dressage. I'll post a poem sometime about what my wonderful mare meant to me. I carefully raised her and trained her. She wasn't rushed. We competed at Training Level Dressage when she was 4, and First Level when she was 5. We only showed a few times a year, but it gave me goals. We competed successfully to 3rd level, and then worked with a classical dressage instructor for many years because I loved the softness and beauty. Tara was never lame or seriously sick a day in her life, until she hurt her knee in a pasture accident in her late teens and developed arthritis in it. I couldn't get another horse, so I had nothing to ride for 5 years before she died, but I wouldn't part with her. I care a great deal about the welfare of my horse. If I do end up competing with my new horse, I'll be just as careful not to hurt her. 

Since my horse died, I have been fostering horses for the local Humane Society - ground training them and introducing them to under saddle work. The first one was a 7 year old Arab mare. She was the one who got me thinking about endurance. She has a beautiful long walk and trot. I love her. She is sweet and learned very quickly. For an Arab, she wasn't super hot. However, when she spooked, she took off like a lightning bolt. Many, many times I considered adopting her. But the bottom line was that I want to relax while I trail ride, not worry about spooking. I don't think I am the right person to train her to calm down. I still have that fear. This was reinforced when she went back and I started working with a 3 year old quarter horse mare from the Humane Society. The difference in temperament was huge. The quarter horse is easy going and hardly anything bothers her. She has some Thoroughbred in her I think, and she's not poky. Her canter is fantastic. I can see me enjoying a trail ride with her. But her trot is up and down, and her walk is stiff so she may not be very comfortable on a long ride. Fostering has renewed my interest in owning a horse of my own. I am having a lot of fun looking at ads and dreaming about what I want. 

It's been over 30 years since I bought my mare's mother. I feel like a kid, because it's been so long since I bought a horse. I figure I should try to get one that might be physically and emotionally able to compete some day, just in case. Realistically, I know that it takes years of training to successfully compete. I'd need to learn a lot and build her up over the years. Only time will tell if I decide to go that way.

Everyone's feedback has given me lots to think about. Thank you all so much!

Mary


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## clippityclop

The very first competitive trail ride I entered, it was on my 8 yr old QH gelding and we won Novice Sweepstakes right out of the barrel. That was a blast, but there was one thing about him that made him a little more competitive than other QH's...he was narrow built, long and lean, more TB type. He had a deep chest, but he wasn't heavily muscled - in fact, he was more sinewy, lean and greyhound type, right at 15hh.

Any horse can do distance, but heavier muscled types are not good radiators and can't get cooled down. Now like others said, if you don't mind competing in rear of the group (maybe even for the coveted turtle award) then that's fine.

I have an Arab who is dead quiet but incredibly smart. He reminds me of a rattlesnake - sits and watches and learns. Sometimes things scare him, but I would never consider him hot by any means. So I consider that the best of both worlds - the arab genes for distance, and the brains to keep us safer.

My walker (who has a LOVELY 8 mph trot -yes, I said trot!) is a hot hot hot type - 14.3hh - but because of his competitive spirit and drive (he is also very lean built and greyhound like) he does SUPERB at vet checks because he's always giving everyone sass and the vets always give us A+'s for his obvious relentless energy to continue.

You sound like you might enjoy a 'jack of all trades' type horse that can compete in anything you point his nose to and will behave enough that you can actually enjoy it. I think any breed can fill that job!

Can I recommed a couple of good books to you if you are considering distance riding? Check out 'Go the Distance' by Nancy Loving and then 'The Complete Guide to Endurance Riding and Competition' by Donna Snyder-Smith - they have details on attitude/body type/how the horse was raised/ etc when choosing a distance horse. Just a little tid-bit (off topic a bit) of info for you if you ever find yourself down that bunny trail.

Good luck!


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## Kato

My best advice as to breed is along the lines as what other have said in reguards to a horse with good conformation and a temperment you can work with. 

I have known some crazy arabs, but I know more arabs with nice calm dispositions. 

If you hope to be competitive several years an arab, morab or other arab cross or per change a morgan. Any breed can do well if conditioned correctly and if they enjoy their work.


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## Joe4d

Any breed cannot do well. That is a myth of wishful thinking. The reality is if you want to do endurance you pretty much need an Arabian. If you got into it and already have horses go for it. But no way I would intentionally shop for a horse with the idea of doing endurance and have it not be at least half Arabian. ALso stay away from mixes with heavy muscle breeds like QH's. You are just gonna end up banging your head against heat issues.
Yes I am well aware that Billy bobs cousin's uncle down the road had a 3 legged shetland clydsdale cross that did endurance. If you want a competitor, or even a finisher with alot less work look for an at least 50% polish Arabian. The Arab crosses that show up as competitive seem to be Morgans, TB's and Saddlebreds.


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## Celeste

Joe, you are too funny!


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## Princess Bubblegum

What about a Haflinger? Super hardy, have Arab and Alpine Pony blood.


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## Brighteyes

Well, since the thread said endurance _and_ competitive trail, I can speak for the competitive trail side. :wink: Competitive trail is a broadish term. When I say it, I mean a pace race where you have a window of time and ride between 15 and 40 miles a day for two or three days. I particularly do rides sanctioned by NATRC, so that's where most of my experience is coming from. 


Almost _any_ horse can do Novice/CP level rides if you put a little effort into conditioning. These rides are usually around 20 miles a day for two days and are usually paced at around 3.5-4.0 miles per hour. For most horses, that means fast walking and a little trotting. I've seen huge drafts and little ponies complete and even win. I see a little bit of _everything_.

Many horses can do Open level rides. These are around 30 miles a day (sometimes 35/40 the first day and a shorter day after) at a 5 or 6 mile per hour pace. Doesn't seem like a huge increase in pace, but it leaves you trotting where ever you can and cantering when it's good, especially when rougher terrain has made you walk. They also put you down harder trails than Novice/CP sometimes. Also, a lot of horses can complete one Open ride or two... But don't last the whole season.

Once you get Open, it's a lot of Arabs. Arabs do very well. We also have a lot of fox trotters, TWH, half arabs, morgans, lean QHs, and an odd appy. I've noticed it isn't so much breed as body type. Lean, lithe horses; built like greyhounds. A pretty fit bunch.

CTR is also a strategy game. You can beat a fitter horse if you plan better. Find a good place in the pack, a good way to make pace time (some horses do better with long trots and some with intermittent smaller ones), decide where to stop and how long, etc. Plan your ride so you'll be a couple minutes a head about two miles out from the vet check and walk in. Your less fit horse will pulse down better by walking in than a fitter horse will do by running in, if that makes sense.

So yeah. You can make most horses into CTR horses if you know your stuff.


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## Joe4d

When people find out I am into endurance they all seem to think that every out of control, untrained, horse that likes to run off or fight to run when other horses are out in front will, "Make a good endurance horse". Even though they have never been to an endurance event and know absolutely nothing about the sport. Often these people tend to have some third hand knowledge of some odd breed that did well, Of course when I look up the results they are either non existent or the horse came in dead last once, Competitive trail is different than endurance and only a small percentage of your score actually comes from riding time. There are also lots of differnt rule sets, most of which I know nothing about so I cant really comment on.
Anything I say is based on Endurance and Limited distance events under AERC rules. While I am currently conditioning my second TN Walker for the fall season, I am under no delusions that she will ever be competitive. I am hoping I can make her into a consistent 50 mile finisher at least on the cooler rides. I am passively keeping my eyes open for an Arabian, or NSH, or Morab, WOuld consider a really special Anglo arab,


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## clippityclop

Yes - I agree with you Joe - you can do the miles on Tour de France with an off road bike, but you will not beat Lance on his customized racer.

And yes - some people still call it endurance racing when the more common term is 'endurance riding' - we don't race as much as we compete. So it tends to give folks the wrong idea when in fact our sport is the most organized and veterinary controlled that exists, I do believe! Last I read, Endurance is second in the world for horse sports with the most turn out (participants) at an event, with show jumping being first.

Bright Eyes you are so right about CTR - that is a fun sport that almost anyone can compete in, horse or rider! I did CTR for a long time in the 90's and strategy really does play a huge part since everyone has a set time to finish. 

I enjoy horses that can do all of the above, some weekend camping, some dressage, and some of mine even get trained to cart. Now if I could only teach them to run errands at the store or pick up the kids............


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## Eolith

I can attest to the fact that there are definitely some super chill Arabs out there. The barn owner where I ride has three purebred Arabs that she uses almost exclusively for her lesson program... and several of these lessons are for the beginningest beginners.

I'm sure you already know that to some extent though, given your experience with part bred Arabs.


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## Reflections

So much great feedback! I am learning a lot. I think I am going to enjoy learning more about competitive trail riding and endurance riding. I like a challenge.

I spent the week looking at horses. It's been over 30 years since I "shopped" for a horse. It's addictive - lol. I saw a couple of quarter horses. I just don't think they're for me. One didn't want to get caught, and her feet were breaking up because it looked like her shoes had been on for 6 months. I saw a Tennessee Walker who was barn sour and a Missouri Fox Trotter who reared, bucked and wouldn't stand still to be mounted by the woman showing her to me. I asked a bunch of questions before going to see these horses, and they were all supposedly calm, reasonably well-trained horses. Quite the adventure!

I strongly favor mares over geldings, but at one of the places they also showed me a 1/2 Arab gelding. I really hesitated over him. He was rangy and lean. He moved right along, but wasn't crazy. Well behaved and about 7 years old. Seemed like a good candidate for me. I finally decided to keep looking, because I really do like mares better.

The one I liked best was a Rocky Mountain mare. She's not gaited, but was obedient, soft and not crazy. She had nice big feet and good legs. Just from our brief discussion here, it helped me to figure out that temperament was most important to me. I have to learn more about the different types of competitions. I like figuring things out, and I liked that she looked at obstacles and was willing to try. Driving home, I kept thinking how much fun it would be to go different places to ride and try different things.

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I'm sure I'll have more questions soon.

Mary


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## jillybean19

I'm glad you're having fun on your search for your new friend! Having just gone through that in January and thinking I wanted some traits but just wasn't sure what I wanted, I know just how you feel. My problem was that I passed over perfectly good candidates because of things that shouldn't have taken top priority and almost missed out on my beautiful boy. I just did NOT want a chestnut! But after looking at many, many horses, I just didn't feel that "click". I tried to talk myself into a few horses, but in the end just couldn't commit. Finally, I went back through the list of horses I'd passed over and decided it couldn't hurt to go look at this bug-eyed, giraffe of an Arabian (I wanted a more "sport horse" Arabian that looked at least half sane. Well, a few hours later, I couldn't get him off my mind and ended up taking him home two weeks later. What closed the deal? Just before I left, I was standing in front of his stall talking to someone, turned to look at him, and he was sticking his tongue out at me - and it wasn't just hanging out, it was pointed!! I just had to have him


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## Druydess

I agree with Joe.. there are exceptions, but in the long haul, an Arabian is THE endurance prospect. It's difficult to argue with thousands of years of meticulous desert breeding where horses were wealth and status, yet put to the test as the best, strongest, and most desirable. Who would survive that but the most proven?
Not to even get into their weight-carrying ability, larger nares for respirations and cooling, and huge heart girth/chest, efficient hemodynamic regulation, as well as little need for water over long distances.


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## dazey

My experience has been with registered Rocky Mountain Horses competing in judged obstacle trail rides. These gaited horses can also compete in endurance, but what I enjoyed was the challenge of teaching the horses how to perform at obstacles. They have basically good temperaments and will startle in place rather than spook or bolt. Also, they have the glide ride of an asynchronous 4-beat lateral gait that is comfortable and thrilling to experience. There are, of course, exceptions to this overall description. 

Now, at age 76, I am retraining an experienced 15-year-old trail mare. She's a Kentucky Mountain horse with the above mentioned characteristics. My aim is just to have a safe, enjoyable mare (I also prefer them) to take on trails for pleasure. I'm using with great success the methods recorded by another owner of Mountain horses in her handbook Basic Training for a Safe Trail Horse, because I became interested in riding without a bit. This mare has responded quickly to big changes from how she was ridden from age 2 in ways I never expected after only 5 months of intermittent riding. I'm surprised at how she has happily adjusted to the easy methods described in this book, so keep this in mind when you too become an elderly rider!


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## Joidigm

Personally, I would love to find a smart, healthy, well conformed OTTB to endurance ride with. I love long trail rides, and Thoroughbreds are so athletic. 

I honestly look forward to retraining and then conditioning. Talk about a challenge. :rofl:


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## Eolith

Joidigm said:


> I honestly look forward to retraining and then conditioning. Talk about a challenge. :rofl:


I honestly look forward to gentling, training, and conditioning more of my own mustangs from scratch in the future. Maybe we're masochists, maybe we just enjoy the "journey" as much as the "destination". :lol:


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## WSArabians

Joe4d said:


> I am passively keeping my eyes open for an Arabian, or NSH, or Morab, WOuld consider a really special Anglo arab,


Well, geez, why didn't you say so? I have a pasture full or Arabians and Morabs that are SUPERB endurance candidates.


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## Joidigm

Eolith said:


> I honestly look forward to gentling, training, and conditioning more of my own mustangs from scratch in the future. Maybe we're masochists, maybe we just enjoy the "journey" as much as the "destination". :lol:


Haha probably the punishment. :lol: I mean, journey. :rofl:


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## usdivers

jillybean19 said:


> Forgive me if I say something that seems obvious - having given lessons for a while now, you never know what people will assume about horses
> 
> 
> - I've been raised with quarter horses. Yes, quarter horses have been the quietest "just do it" horses I've worked with - but I've also had one that was out of cutting stock that was HOT HOT HOT, as many lines are bred to be. As others have said, it all depends on the horse, not necessarily the breed. And while quarter horses are quiet, their spooks are in quality and many, once the rare spook comes, loose it and it's hard to get them over it. My arab, who I LOVE on the trial, spooks or shys occasionally (which is HUGE because he used to set back at the squeak of a gate!), he's so smart and works through it now. Basically, if I say it's ok, he knows it's ok. So it just all depends.
> 
> As for endurance ability, I believe endurance news just ran an article about some of the regular 100-miler draft horses, and I know a few ladies that ride drafts on our rides as well as a few ponies! If a draft can do it, any breed can. And any horse, conditioned sufficiently, can complete an LD. However, NOT every horse can be competitive, and not every horse can complete the 50+ endurance rides. Traits in these horses include an efficient mover (with more forward movement rather than an "upward" movement - this depends on the shoulder), good conformation of course (particularly in the legs), and a general willingness and happiness to just keep going. Trust me, you don't want a happy horse for the first loop, who thinks the vet check means they're done, and then you still have 15-25 miles of fighting your ****ed off horse after he realizes the vet check was NOT the end of the ride.
> 
> 
> Some quarter horses will, others won't. Again, see how efficiently they move, particularly at a trot. If you have to push, push, push to get them into a working trot (approx 8-9mph), it's not going to be a fun ride for either of you. I.e., don't get a western pleasure jogger  On the other hand, one girl I know has to hold her quarter horse back because she trots so fast I have to lope behind her (thus why I started riding on my own - this was not good for my horse). Starting out, though, you don't want to be going that fast because you'll ruin your horse. Build slowly but surely
> 
> 
> Going into endurance with this mindset is dangerous. Even if your horse can be competitive right off the bat, it's not necessarily the best to let them do so. You can really do some damage. It takes time to build the muscle, lungs, and eventually the bone density required to prevent sprains and stressed ligaments, worst case scenario hurt the bones. This can only come with time. I've been told it takes 3 years of regular endurance to build a 100-miler horse. Until then, just admire the people who've worked hard to get there.
> 
> The best advice I got was to treat actual rides like a really long conditioning session. Eventually you'll "accidentally" top 10. There are two kinds of riders - those that compete for miles and those that compete for placings. Usually, these are two different riders and don't mesh well. The people I've worked with that are very competitive only ride the rides they think they're going to win (based on terrain, time, who's competing, etc), and pass up all the others. They've also been doing this for years and years - most around here since the 80's and even 70's. Unfortunately, we had quite the scare at the last ride when one seasoned rider won the 50 two days in a row. Minutes after the final vet check on the second race, the horse went severely downhilll and was in danger of dying for the remainder of the day. And when you're in the middle of nowhere for a ride, you do not want to need a vet. The vets there do not have all the resources they'd normally have, and treating a horse is their worst case scenario. The guy almost lost his horse - and the same guy DID lose a horse a couple of years ago at a ride. Please don't become this kind of rider.
> 
> Want to be competitive right from the start? Compete for turtle (last place) - it's quite a nice ride when you're not stressed about everything else, including overriding your horse, and you still get a prize! Turtle can get pretty competitive, at least around here - one time a few riders hid off-trail and waited for a friend of theirs (who ALWAYS got turtle) to pass them - it was quite a shock at the award ceremony when she thought she'd gotten it again until they announced it!
> 
> As the AERC motto goes, "To finish is to win."
> 
> 
> They can do LD's at 4 (based on actual birthday, not Jan 1); They can do endurance rides (50+) at 5. If you plan on doing the higher milage (like 100's), I'm told you want to wait until they're 9 or so to fully mature. It's a whole new ballgame when you start talking about "training" and how young is too young - I'll leave that debate to the training forum. But for beginning an endurance horse, I think 6 or 7 is about ideal for starting conditioning, but definitely no younger than 4 for LD conditioning (I personally think that is too young though, especially for Arabs who mature later) or 5 for endurance since that's the limits you have to follow anyway. I've seen horses into their early 20's competing on endurance rides, and a few in mid 20's doing LD's, but it all depends on how hard you've ridden your horse. If you've ridden hard, your horse will not last as long in life. I personally want to go for the decade team - at least one 50+ mile endurance ride with the same horse and rider for ten years in a row. I won't make it there if I'm shooting to win all the time.
> 
> Anyways, that's my 2 cents. My biggest fear is people getting into endurance and just going about it all on their own and then ruining or injuring their horses. This is one of the most extreme equine sports and we ask so much of our horses - everything has to be done with the horse's health as top priority. Once it stops being the priority, you move closer to loosing a horse at the ride. Above all, find a good mentor that has goals similar to you and has ridden for years - as in at least a decade. You can find people who've competed for much longer. Good luck


well said


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## usdivers

clippityclop said:


> The very first competitive trail ride I entered, it was on my 8 yr old QH gelding and we won Novice Sweepstakes right out of the barrel. That was a blast, but there was one thing about him that made him a little more competitive than other QH's...he was narrow built, long and lean, more TB type. He had a deep chest, but he wasn't heavily muscled - in fact, he was more sinewy, lean and greyhound type, right at 15hh.
> 
> Any horse can do distance, but heavier muscled types are not good radiators and can't get cooled down. Now like others said, if you don't mind competing in rear of the group (maybe even for the coveted turtle award) then that's fine.
> 
> I have an Arab who is dead quiet but incredibly smart. He reminds me of a rattlesnake - sits and watches and learns. Sometimes things scare him, but I would never consider him hot by any means. So I consider that the best of both worlds - the arab genes for distance, and the brains to keep us safer.
> 
> My walker (who has a LOVELY 8 mph trot -yes, I said trot!) is a hot hot hot type - 14.3hh - but because of his competitive spirit and drive (he is also very lean built and greyhound like) he does SUPERB at vet checks because he's always giving everyone sass and the vets always give us A+'s for his obvious relentless energy to continue.
> 
> You sound like you might enjoy a 'jack of all trades' type horse that can compete in anything you point his nose to and will behave enough that you can actually enjoy it. I think any breed can fill that job!
> 
> Can I recommed a couple of good books to you if you are considering distance riding? Check out 'Go the Distance' by Nancy Loving and then 'The Complete Guide to Endurance Riding and Competition' by Donna Snyder-Smith - they have details on attitude/body type/how the horse was raised/ etc when choosing a distance horse. Just a little tid-bit (off topic a bit) of info for you if you ever find yourself down that bunny trail.
> 
> Good luck!


What kind heart rates do you get with your walker?


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## Joe4d

Just started working with Emma, she is bigger stronger faster, and has lots of surface blood vessels, hoping this translates into better heat management. We shall see, I just started working her, but she seems awful slow pulsing down even when she doesn treally seem tired. Gonna keep on her this winter see how it goes. But may end up with an arabian soon.


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## clippityclop

usdivers said:


> What kind heart rates do you get with your walker?


 
After 6-8 months of conditioning for LD, he can hold a mile canter not peaking over 135 bpm during the canter and after a 15 mile ride at a good 6-8 mph, he will pulse down to 60 within five minutes of slowing to a walk, and is at 56 by the time we hit the first vet check...that's pretty much his 'staying' power that he holds all day...of course, we trot and rarely canter. (Yes, trot - even tho he is a walking horses..LOL!).

We were doing pretty good and placing in the mid to upper 20's of the pack (pack being 60+ riders) at this rate. Not a first place contender, but with work, maybe a top 10 at some point.


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## clippityclop

Eolith said:


> enjoy the "journey" as much as the "destination". :lol:


 
Hey...I think i saw that on a Tshirt at Zazzle or something..LOL!


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## Celeste

clippityclop said:


> After 6-8 months of conditioning for LD, he can hold a mile canter not peaking over 135 bpm during the canter and after a 15 mile ride at a good 6-8 mph, he will pulse down to 60 within five minutes of slowing to a walk, and is at 56 by the time we hit the first vet check...that's pretty much his 'staying' power that he holds all day...of course, we trot and rarely canter. (Yes, trot - even tho he is a walking horses..LOL!).
> 
> We were doing pretty good and placing in the mid to upper 20's of the pack (pack being 60+ riders) at this rate. Not a first place contender, but with work, maybe a top 10 at some point.


I wonder if that is the key. The trot. The rack or running walk may use a lot more energy.


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## usdivers

Celeste said:


> I wonder if that is the key. The trot. The rack or running walk may use a lot more energy.


When my guy trots, it usually is a mistake ...he is most happy when he is doing the running walk.


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## Celeste

usdivers said:


> When my guy trots, it usually is a mistake ...he is most happy when he is doing the running walk.


Do you know how he does with heart rates?


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## usdivers

Celeste said:


> Do you know how he does with heart rates?


I had arabs before, so I am use to low recovery heart rates. This is my first TWH, ie. when we finish doing a quick 20km training ride in the soft sand, as soon as I get off his heart rate is almost always around 67 bpm no matter how hard we work, within 10 minutes it is down to 52-57 bpm. I have yet to get him below 50 post workouts. At the moment in the mornings his resting HR is around 45.


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## usdivers

usdivers said:


> I had arabs before, so I am use to low recovery heart rates. This is my first TWH, ie. when we finish doing a quick 20km training ride in the soft sand, as soon as I get off his heart rate is almost always around 67 bpm no matter how hard we work, within 10 minutes it is down to 52-57 bpm. I have yet to get him below 50 post workouts. At the moment in the mornings his resting HR is around 45.


Forgot to mention my guy is being used for the HW division carrying 100+ kgs.


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## clippityclop

We do LW division...my walker trots because he's not full blood - he has a gait and it is there, but it is not his predominant gait. I've been working on his walk for sometime but he is wired more for diagonal than lateral footwork.

So we go with his natural way of going and he's got such fire and competitive spirit, that he is a blast at endurance. He sees the glimpse of a tail a mile in front, and he will pick up and pace himself at a brisk trot until we overcome the front runner, and then he starts looking for another... 

he is a very HOT horse, and we ride best alone. He is at his best when he is moving forward down a trail. If I stop too long and visit with someone, he will get mad and bite my shin or gnaw on my toe. If I stop to get off and pee, he will need to pee as well (no fun - the splatter factor). If I get off to walk and don't walk fast enough, he cuts me off and stops repeatedly until I get on - and with one foot in, he's off on that 8 mph jog again, loose rein, ears up - off we go!

We cross train in dressage (I call it horsie yoga/pilates) for flexibility...
here we are doing a very basic and first time piaffe...(Pics are tiny - pulled them from a video). He is a jack of all trades - my awesome real live ATV!


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## clippityclop

usdivers said:


> Forgot to mention my guy is being used for the HW division carrying 100+ kgs.


 
Those are GREAT recoveries for HW!


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## usdivers

clippityclop said:


> We do LW division...my walker trots because he's not full blood - he has a gait and it is there, but it is not his predominant gait. I've been working on his walk for sometime but he is wired more for diagonal than lateral footwork.
> 
> So we go with his natural way of going and he's got such fire and competitive spirit, that he is a blast at endurance. He sees the glimpse of a tail a mile in front, and he will pick up and pace himself at a brisk trot until we overcome the front runner, and then he starts looking for another...
> 
> he is a very HOT horse, and we ride best alone. He is at his best when he is moving forward down a trail. If I stop too long and visit with someone, he will get mad and bite my shin or gnaw on my toe. If I stop to get off and pee, he will need to pee as well (no fun - the splatter factor). If I get off to walk and don't walk fast enough, he cuts me off and stops repeatedly until I get on - and with one foot in, he's off on that 8 mph jog again, loose rein, ears up - off we go!
> 
> We cross train in dressage (I call it horsie yoga/pilates) for flexibility...
> here we are doing a very basic and first time piaffe...(Pics are tiny - pulled them from a video). He is a jack of all trades - my awesome real live ATV!
> 
> View attachment 109095
> 
> View attachment 109096


That is funny, I wonder if that is a TWH thing. Comanche will do the same thing when we are out riding, the minute he sees someone in front, he will pick up the pace until he catches them, and then he will look for the next one to overtake. He is still very young, so I have had to rein him in when he puts it into overdrive so as not to overstress his young legs.


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## Joe4d

Bo would only drop into a trot when he was fatigued and it was bone jarring. Bo is show stock and has the high stepping rack movement. My new horse emma is old school flat runs shuffle steps ground covering with minimal work. We shall see. I'm gonna be training her at 8-10 mph.


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## usdivers

Joe4d said:


> Bo would only drop into a trot when he was fatigued and it was bone jarring. Bo is show stock and has the high stepping rack movement. My new horse emma is old school flat runs shuffle steps ground covering with minimal work. We shall see. I'm gonna be training her at 8-10 mph.


We are not quite at the 8-10 mph level yet, still early days for Comanche, as he will just turn 5 in January 2013. I would love for him to average 10mph/16 km/h, that kind of pace is enough to be top 3 for HW division over here.


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## clippityclop

Joe4d said:


> Bo would only drop into a trot when he was fatigued and it was bone jarring. Bo is show stock and has the high stepping rack movement. My new horse emma is old school flat runs shuffle steps ground covering with minimal work. We shall see. I'm gonna be training her at 8-10 mph.


 
Emma sounds like she would be fun. Do you have a ride picked out for her first?


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## phantomhorse13

clippityclop said:


> Emma sounds like she would be fun. Do you have a ride picked out for her first?


You should bring her up for the november jersey ride!


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## Joe4d

was looking at JD's ride in Patrick SC, right around thanksgiving, The thought of pulling a horse trailer north through DC baltimore, jersey gives me the heebee jeebies.

a few new walker riders and one new arab rider want me to do the 20 oct sandhills ride, but it is a 35 mile LD,,,, if I do 35 Id rather hang in there for a 50, and I am not gonna take emma to a 50 in oct. My friend likes fox catcher and she tends to have me figured out and pretty much gets me to do what she wants eventually. I imagine I will end up there in the spring.


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## clippityclop

That sounds like so much fun...

we have a ride over Thksgiving weekend here in the central region that takes place in the hill country, one of the harder places in our area for rides (ups downs elevation changes, LOTS OF ROCKS and switchbacks) but the kicker is, you might be in the 90's on that day or you might be in the 40's. GOtta love TX!

It's a great ride (the TEST ride) to take horses on to see what they are made of but I never choose this ride as a horse's maiden voyage because of the difficulty. For the beginner, I usually head to east TX where it is flat and in the piney woods, or a private ranch with flat trails.

What is your ride like in Patrick SC? Just curious to know what type of terrain you might try for Emma's first. Of course they all are different (horses, I mean) so it is different for everybody...


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## Joe4d

Patrick SC, is nearly flat with sand trails. No rocks. I did my first ride there and got turtle award. Some heavy rain over the previous couple days made the trails even easier. I had been warned repeatedly about the soft sand, so I imagine if it is dry it could get worse.
Another ride in the similar region is two weeks earlier. It is also a 2 day ride with nicer camp area, Plus the above mentioned girl has decided I should go to that one. (Broxton SC. ) Guess in my old age I am just getting much more pliable. So Broxton SC mid nov will be Emmas first ride, see how she does and may or may not ride the second day.


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## usdivers

Joe4d said:


> Patrick SC, is nearly flat with sand trails. No rocks. I did my first ride there and got turtle award. Some heavy rain over the previous couple days made the trails even easier. I had been warned repeatedly about the soft sand, so I imagine if it is dry it could get worse.
> Another ride in the similar region is two weeks earlier. It is also a 2 day ride with nicer camp area, Plus the above mentioned girl has decided I should go to that one. (Broxton SC. ) Guess in my old age I am just getting much more pliable. So Broxton SC mid nov will be Emmas first ride, see how she does and may or may not ride the second day.


I am looking at the end of September for Comanche's first training ride. We will have to compare notes .


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