# Farriers Using Twitches



## LinRodeo (Jan 30, 2008)

My farrier has shod my horse 3 times with little or no problem. However, this time she gave him a hard time. He managed to shoe the front feet, but when he got to the back ones, she was trying to kick him and would not stand still.

When he suggested using a twitch on her muzzle, I said absoultely not. So she has her front feet shod, and no shoes on the back. I was disappointed that he gave up so easily, and I did pay him the full price.

To be honest, I have never used a twitch on my horse because I think she'd probably go psycho. What's your thoughts?


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## free_sprtd (Oct 18, 2007)

hmmm i dont know anything about a twitch but i would switch farriers. He should not have finished without doing the job. maybe she was just having a bad day, or maybe she doesnt like the guy! shoes can be kind of expensive and that is absolutely ridiculous that you paid full price without him finishing the job. My farrier trimmed my green 1 1/2 year old and did it with a broken hand. He is super gental and very kind with the horses, but firm when he needs to be. Your guy should have offered to come back and finish the back another day if he was unable to perform his service properly... :? :?


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## Sara (Jul 6, 2007)

A properly used twitch releases calming endorphins to the brain. I've never seen a horse go haywire from having a twitch applied. Improper use can cause nerve damage...therein lies the controversy.

If it helps the vet or the farrier do their job safely, I'm all for humane use of a twitch. I'm probably biased since I used to accompany my mom (a vet) on so many of her equine house calls.


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## jazzyrider (Sep 16, 2007)

twitches arent a problem as long as they arent used too 'hard'. we had to twitch my warmblood at first getting his feet done and cuase it was used properly all it did was make him relax and go all sleepy  it doesnt need to be pulled really tight to get an effect and its quite harmless and painless for the horse


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## tim (Dec 31, 2007)

I use one whenever I need to clip his ears out. It's not cruel, just the exploitation of a convenient biological function. :wink:


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## Harlee rides horses (Jan 13, 2008)

If a professional recommended it, I would do it without questioning them.


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## LinRodeo (Jan 30, 2008)

While I'm not a so called horse expert, I do have good horse sense.
I won't always follow the instruction of a so call professional either because I know my horse best.

I failed to tell you guys that my horse is a purebred arab (hot tempered). She is extremely sensitive and on cross ties while shoeing her. It is not a good idea to use a twitch when the horse is cross tied (in case they rear up) Oh, I also failed to mention that he didnt actually have a twitch, and wanted to use a crimper (the farrier tool used to bend the nails). 

Unless I have a death wish, think I did the right thing by saying absolutely not!


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## Harlee rides horses (Jan 13, 2008)

Well maybe you should fill in the details next time.


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## LinRodeo (Jan 30, 2008)

Sorry :wink:


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## ilovemydun (Nov 2, 2007)

I have to disagree. Not every so-called professional uses "humane" devices. I've heard professional trainers suggest whipping a horse to force it into control. There are "professionals" out there that abuse their authority. 

Just because a professional reccommends it, doesn't mean it's right or what works for you and your horse.

I agree that a twitch can be used under the right circumstances and in the right hands...but I believe you made the right decision LinRodeo.


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## jazzyrider (Sep 16, 2007)

well now that ive heard the full story, fair enough especially if he wanted to use one of his tools as the twitch. im confused as to how he would even do this :? 

p.s. a twitch can easily be made out of bailing twine and a small piece of pvc piping about an inch in diameter. thats what we have. in fact i dont think ive ever seen anything other than that lol 

just a side note, i used to have quite a hot arab myself and even though i thought he would freak out with the twitch, he didnt. it was the only time he ever stood still and wasnt really worried about everything going on around him


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## Harlee rides horses (Jan 13, 2008)

jazzyrider said:


> ust a side note, i used to have quite a hot arab myself and even though i thought he would freak out with the twitch, he didnt. it was the only time he ever stood still and wasnt really worried about everything going on around him Smile




Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the reason horses are calm is because their lips affect their brain cells or nerves in their brain, not seriously, but enough to calm them?


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## Jr_lover (Apr 14, 2007)

i'm sry but i have to disagree with all of you on this. I don't think twitches are good to use at all.

Junior was used with a twitch before i got him and i don't know if they did it wrong or what but he is nose shy now. Even though he lets me touch his nose because he trusts me enough he wont let some people touch his nose and in some cases he even gets nose shy to me if i have to do something around his nose and i make fast movements. Just saying this because even some professionals can screw up :wink: .


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

If it was dangerous to do it crosstied, you could have just as easily hooked a leadrope on the horse and held him yourself. 

If you weren't going to allow him to feel safe doing your horse, then why should he risk it. Being a farrier is a rough job, why make it harder.


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## Tammy (Mar 1, 2007)

i totally disagree with using a twitch for getting his feet done. it should be made a good experience and your farrier should be able to handle when things come up like this.the first time my horses feet was done he was terrible even though i had worked with his feet everyday for a month to get him ready but my farrier helped me get him settled and have had no prolbem since.


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## Piper (Sep 14, 2007)

I think you made the right decision in not allowing her to do it, especially since she didn't even have the right equipment. Sounds like your horse just had an off day and your farrier could have had a little more patience. One thing you might try before the next visit is giving your horse a little bit of a work out to take some of the edge off. Also, maybe practice picking up the hooves and tapping on them a few days ahead of time. These things might help your horse be more relaxed and know what to expect before hand. Hope things go better next time.


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## Grendel (Jan 22, 2008)

Sara said:


> A properly used twitch releases calming endorphins to the brain. I've never seen a horse go haywire from having a twitch applied. Improper use can cause nerve damage...therein lies the controversy.
> 
> If it helps the vet or the farrier do their job safely, I'm all for humane use of a twitch. I'm probably biased since I used to accompany my mom (a vet) on so many of her equine house calls.


i agree.

also, you can try grabbing some of her skin near her shoulder and twisting also releases endorphins.


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## jazzyrider (Sep 16, 2007)

if done correctly it isnt a bad experience for them. my wb needed it the first time but since then we have been able to work with him more and he has no issues with the farrier now nor is he nose shy. the biggest issues come from it not being done properly


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## kim_angel (Oct 16, 2007)

I dont think the farrier had to endanger his health, well being, life & source of income by doing a horse that was trying to hurt him.
I would walk away and not finish the job if I felt that my safety was in question.

The horse needs to learn respect maybe. Or if the horse is jumpy and a problem, maybe use some sort of calming product like Quietex?


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## tim (Dec 31, 2007)

kim_angel said:


> I dont think the farrier had to endanger his health, well being, life & source of income by doing a horse that was trying to hurt him.
> I would walk away and not finish the job if I felt that my safety was in question.


Yes, my farrier is a really nice guy and great to work with, but before we started putting back shoes on my horse, he told me to get a hammer and just knock around on his back feet.

Farrier said if my horse kicked him he'd charge me but he wouldn't put the shoes on.


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## Jr_lover (Apr 14, 2007)

oh and i also think that using a twitch is like avoiding the situation and taking the easy way out. this is just my opinion.


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## Harlee rides horses (Jan 13, 2008)

Jr_lover said:


> oh and i also think that using a twitch is like avoiding the situation and taking the easy way out. this is just my opinion.


Even if it is the easy way out, why not take an easy way out? Why risk your safe-being when there is other ways.


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## free_sprtd (Oct 18, 2007)

Harlee rides horses said:


> Jr_lover said:
> 
> 
> > oh and i also think that using a twitch is like avoiding the situation and taking the easy way out. this is just my opinion.
> ...


I think what JR means is that it's not actually solving the problem, it's just a quick fix, the horse isnt learning anything.....I think


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

The twitch when used properly can be a handy tool in a bad situation. Some of you may be against it, but if it was an injury situation or the general health of the animal was in jeopardy I wouldn't hesitate to use a twitch. I think the farrier should have just put it off for another day if you objected to the twitch. I certainly wouldn't have paid him for work not done, and my farrier wouldn't have accepted it.


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## Tammy (Mar 1, 2007)

I don't disagree with a twitch altogether i have had to use them before in emergncy cases but not to get their feet trimmed i just think the farrier should have had a little more patiecne and i'm not saying put his life in danger didn't you say that your horse had been done before?was there any problems the times before?


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

As stated before, twitches can be extremely useful in some situations, and I have no objection to them whatsoever. However, as with just about ANY piece of horse equipment, it has to be used properly otherwise it could cause damage. 

If it hasn't been said before (which I'm sure it has by now) taking a hoofpick and using the bendy side (the u-shaped side) and tapping it on your horse's feet will desensitize the horse to it and may make shoeing easier 

The fact that the farrier wanted to use a piece of equipment not intended as a twitch would make me leery about him/her, not to mention that they wouldn't finish the job. I might suggest looking for another farrier..?


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

This is not pointed at the OP. It is in general reference to the hoof handling remarks. 

That is one of the things I always stress with my babies. Picking up thier feet well. Once they know to pick up thier feet. I will move thier leg around in the air. Slap thier feet with my hand(or if I have the hoof pick), and rub all over thier legs and surrounding area while the foot is picked up. I do all sorts of stuff to them that I can think of when I have thier feet in my hands. To me, safe foot handling is the number one thing a horse can learn. 

To the OP, good luck with your situation. I hope everything settles out alright.


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## Jr_lover (Apr 14, 2007)

free_sprtd said:


> Harlee rides horses said:
> 
> 
> > Jr_lover said:
> ...


yea thats basically what i was trying to say sry if it didn't come out right.


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## jazzyrider (Sep 16, 2007)

as much as i agree that its avoiding the base problem (and im a huge believer in fixing the problem not masking it) sometimes things have to be done. when i had to get my wb's feet done there was no putting it off for another day. my vet had even said his feet need doing ASAP (i had just got him and he had been neglected). i had bought a sedative injection from the vet but decided to see if we could do it without drugs. at became clear we couldnt but decided to try the twitch before sedating. please keep in mind this is a situation where it HAD to be done.

he settled down nicely and had all his feet done. it certainly has been better since then too. and, he has no ongoing fear of farriers. in fact we havent had a prob since. this i believe is because the twitching was done properly and all it did to him was make it feel like he'd had a few beers and it was time for relaxing 

if a twitch is used for such things as subduing a horse cause it pulls its head up when being bridled or something like that, then no, its not necessary and the root of the problem needs to be sorted but when you have a situation where an already dangerous job is being done then there is nothing wrong with making it safer for the people involved and in most cases, less stressful on the horse cause he is in a zen-like state


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## Jr_lover (Apr 14, 2007)

yea i understand what you are talking about but basically i just say if you have to do it do it right. Just because something happened to Junior during the time of doing that and i'm just making sure nothing happens to anyone else's horses on here too.


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## jazzyrider (Sep 16, 2007)

^^^ which is fair enough


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## barefoothooves (Sep 6, 2007)

I just found this post.

First, I have to say, as a farrier, a person's safety far surpasses the need to "finish the job today" , for all of you that were against him quitting for the day. Would you pay for all his lost money if he were incapacitated for 3 months thanks to a bad kick, just becuase he wanted to stick it out? Probably not. And the horse was not at risk because he didn't finish that day. So "fight and run away-live to fight another day" I say.

IF it's ever such an emergency that it's absolutely got to be done today, and the horse is being a jerk, a good chemical sedation is, IMPO, the best thing. Horses can still kick with a twitch, most owners refuse any kind of hobble (which if done properly on a horse that's trained, but just being a jerk, is acceptable, but not on young, or wild or emotionally scarred animals). I'll say it again, if the animal is poorly trained, or just plain dangerous but the owner insists the it gets shod/trimmed, a sedative is the safest for all involved. 

Now having said that, if there is testy mare that's normally good with this guy, she might have been in heat. Some mares don't like the hind end messed with at that time. In that case, a twitch might be enough, but not some jerry-rigged mess, just a normal twitch, used properly.. If she is stil a jerk, I think the best thing IS to wait for hormones to subside, no big deal, everyone is safe.

Sometimes horses just have bad days. Weather, kids running around, lots of activity, the pasture mate is off at a show, can influence a horse's behavior, as well. These should be considered. Most of the time, a good longing before the farrier works on them, does wonders to calm them down. 

For me, if a normally good horse is touchy, I just spend a couple of extra minutes rubbing, petting and letting them stretch their legs into the hold I need. But if they kick, that changes my approach_I keep myself safe and use ropes to pick up the legs. I would wonder about joint pain somewhere, as well. All these things should be considered.

When a farrier has other appts, he may give up on a horse that's taking too long, esp if the owner doesn't want to try his methods of restraints (as an owner you have that right, beleive me!) and he's not making any money working really hard on one horse, when others are waiting for him, who may not be nice about him being late. So I can understand charging for the time and his risk, even if you didn't get the result, and him moving on to more cooperative horses. Perhaps you could find out what the problem was in the mean time_estrous, joint or back pain, or just a bad day.

Hopefully, next time your horse will be normal again, and the farrier will be able to finish, and everyone will be safe and happy. If you don't like his twitch, maybe you can ask him to allow extra time to take it slow the next time.


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## catatapult (Jan 22, 2008)

are there any other farriers in your area? If so i would seriously consider having one of them see if they can do it. I think that even if he did have other appointments he still should have sceduled the time in so he doesn't have to rush. He should also leave a bit of extra time incase there is a problem. I think that you should ask him to come back out some time soon. If he really values your investment then i'm sure he will be happy to give it another try when he(or she sorry :wink: ) is having a better day.


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

I can't believe that some of you aren't giving this farrier an ounce of credit.
In my opinion, I don't care if my horse is having the worst day of his life--unless he is in physical pain, he MUST pick up his feet, and he BETTER not kick me. Not saying I'd beat him or anything, but horses are 1,000 pound animals that can be incredibly dangerous. I can't risk my horse throwing kicks out or dancing all over the place when I go to clean his feet, or if the farrier comes. It is simply not an option for him.
With that being said, it is NOT the farrier's job to train your horse. If your horse won't pick up her feet or is trying to kick him, HE is not the one that should spend 'a little extra time' with her to fix her. That is YOUR job; being a farrier is a hard career, and if he spends a little extra time on your horse, and the next one, and the next one, he'll be exhausted and those horses will be no better for it--because the problem isn't the farrier, it's the owner. He has plenty of other horses that are probably much better behaved--why should he waste his time on one that is trying to kick him? What if she'd kicked him in the head--all because she was misbehaving? You may call it an 'off day', but it comes down to the horse simply not being disciplined enough to allow the farrier to continue on with her feet (unless she was in pain--which you have said isn't the case...?).
The farrier then gave you an option to twitch your horse. You mentioned it's unsafe to do so on crossties... it's also unsafe to shoe horses on crossties as well. I agree that the farrier shouldn't have tried to use something that's not intended to be a twitch, but twine would have gotten the job done. Horses are not 'too hot' or 'too sensitive' to be twitched... when it comes to the safety of a person in this type of situation, I am all-for using one. They are humane (if used correctly), and have been around forever.
This probably sounds harsh, but I hate when farriers and other equine professionals get a bad rep when they are just trying to do their job and not get hurt in the process. Not only is it dangerous for them to get hurt... but they also could be out of work for months--who's going to pay them and their family then?


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## toosexy4myspotz (Oct 7, 2007)

FIrst off a twitch doesnt hurt them it just destracts them. Also, you cant be irritated because he gave up so easily. He would be putting himself in danger for what? There is no good reason. If a horse was to act like that with my farrier its either twitch them or you deal with it but he wont. They cant put themselves at risk just because your horse wont cooperate. Its not his fault. You should have let him twitch her. Next time she will be even worse because now she knows she can get away with it. Sometimes situations require a little more action and that is where a lot of horse owners go wrong and let their horses get away with stubburn behaviors.


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## toosexy4myspotz (Oct 7, 2007)

If you dont know what she will do you cant say she would go phsyco! It CALMS them. Being arab and hot tempered has NOTHING to do with the matter. You should have let him do it. A good horse owner will know NOT to let a horse get by with such behavior. So somewhere your horse sense went wrong.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

Why would you have paid the full price?!

I recently had a similar issue. I have my own farrier. Had him for the last 2 years. He works with the horses really well and is very gentle with them and always is able to work with them even on the random occasion they decide to be difficult.

Because I moved my horse to the new barn a few month ago, I decided I would give this farrier a go since he was the barn's main farriers. Thought it might be easier.

Anyways, my boy is excellent with his feet, never had problems. 

The farrier came on a day I was at work so I wasnt there. According to him my horse was a "monster". He kept trying to kick him and he wouldnt stand still. He ended up doing trims on all fours but didnt rasp at all. 

Only difference is, he didnt charge me because he "couldnt finish the job" and couldnt handle him. I have no idea what happend that day and find it hard to believe my horse was a "monster".

Needless to say if this farrier cant handle my horse, who is one of the calmest and sweetest horse you have ever met, he will not be getting near my horses again and I will make sure to go back to my private farrier.


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## Abby (Nov 26, 2007)

My (ex!)farrier was out yesterday and did something that APPALLED me! He took the stud chain and put it IN my moms RESCUE horses mouth and put it under his top lip and on the upper gums and YANKED! Then slapped him and said no for pulling back and yanked again. I got so upset I told him to STOP IT and told him if he did it again I'd sue him for abuse of my animal and took the chain out of his mouth and it had cut his cums and made them bleed. I told him to leave immediately. I will NEVER use that farrier again, I was so upset. I can't even tell my mom what he did to her horse. I had gone to go get a treat for Rocky afterward so he wouldn't be so nervous and when I came back he was yanking on our horse. My barn manager uses that farrier and I thought he was okay when he did her horses but now I know why they are so well behaved when he comes, because he tears there mouth apart!

edit- just as a note he didn't even give rocket a chance to be good he just immediately went and put a chain in his mouth and cross tied him and everything. I thought, okay cross ties whatever and left and ooh I'm so mad. The sad thing is that horse has a hard time trusting men and now I have NO idea how we are going to help him with that going on.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

That's really unfortunate. Nothing worst than someone destroying hours of work with a horse. :?


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## Haffy (May 25, 2008)

I had a farrier use a stud chain on my mare like Abby said happened to her moms horse. Mine went straight up and over and got a $750 concussion. He said he would come back in three days to finish the other horses since I was frantically trying to get a vet. Never heard from him again. So I will never just follow the requests of a professional again. My mare only acted up because he was burning her feet with hot shoes. She has never acted up before or since she got hot shoeing. My current farrier used what she called a nerve line and it worked great on another horse that was pulling his feet away from this other farrier. It is just a 1/4 inch rope with two rings tied on it and it runs around over the poll and under the upper lip and thru the other ring like a pully......rather than JERKING you just apply gentle pressure when the horse struggles and it releases endorfphins and when they stop you release. Worked great....used it twice and now he stands fine again. Was more like a training technique than a twitch would be even though they sorta do the same thing. :x


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## HooverH (May 17, 2008)

MK- I agree. The horse needed to not be allowed to attempt to kick. Unless she was in pain, that shouldn't happen. If my boy attempted anything like that with our farrier, he would in trouble. 

Now, we've heard farrier horror stories, how about some praise for good farriers? Just because your farrier was a butt doesn't mean they are all bad or mean. As MK said, it's not a farrier's job to make the horse behave, that's the owners responsibility. I am always there for Hoove's trimmings, and if he steps out of line, he knows it.

Two stories: Our blind horse, Smokey, used to go over the tack rail when he was trimmed he was so upset. Our farrier, Jason, has been trimming him for a couple years, and now Smoke falls asleep during the work, he's so comfortable with Jason. 

When Hoover came to me, he had been beaten around the legs with whips and crops, and also had a farrier that pinched his chestnuts to make him give his legs. His first trimming with Jason, I was worried he would be upset, just from seeing a farrier. Jason came in, petted and spoke to him. Hoover gave him no trouble, and even was offering his back feet by the end of the trim.

Also, Geldings...maybe your horse was upset because his alpha wasn't there, and got over the farrier. New person, he's not going to behave for them no matter how sweet he is. He's going to test anywhere he can. My horse knows better than to nip, but it's the first thing he tries with new people.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

Work with your horse's feet every single day. Even the hottest horses can overcome issues with feet handling if they are worked with.

I don't agree with the use of twitches, but I can understand him wanting to using one if your horse was misbehaving. This is his livliehood, if he gets hurts, that's it for him. 

Why can't you hold your horse for him to work on? Maybe the horse is having a fit being in the cross ties? Some horses don't do well at all in cross ties.

Hopefully you don't get a reputation through the farriers for not wanting to work with them - he might just see it that way and pass that on word of mouth. I assume the horse's back feet still need done?


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## love-a-hero (Apr 3, 2008)

Solon said:


> Work with your horse's feet every single day. Even the hottest horses can overcome issues with feet handling if they are worked with.
> 
> I don't agree with the use of twitches, but I can understand him wanting to using one if your horse was misbehaving. This is his livliehood, if he gets hurts, that's it for him.
> 
> ...


Amen


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## jazzyrider (Sep 16, 2007)

toosexy4myspotz said:


> FIrst off a twitch doesnt hurt them it just destracts them. Also, you cant be irritated because he gave up so easily. He would be putting himself in danger for what? There is no good reason. If a horse was to act like that with my farrier its either twitch them or you deal with it but he wont. They cant put themselves at risk just because your horse wont cooperate. Its not his fault. You should have let him twitch her. Next time she will be even worse because now she knows she can get away with it. Sometimes situations require a little more action and that is where a lot of horse owners go wrong and let their horses get away with stubburn behaviors.


it isnt even so much of the distraction thing. its more that the twitching process releases endorphins in the bloodstream which calms them down


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## dustytrailzz (May 25, 2008)

*farrier*

I agree with all of the farriers here! I own and train arabs. As an owner, it's my responsibility to make sure my horses are well behaved. If my horse misbehaved for my farrier, I'd be embarrassed! Farriers are not horse trainers. It's their job to come and trim the horses feet and shoe them. It's our job to make sure they can do that safely. They do not work for a corporation that gives them workman's comp, disability, etc. It's really not that hard to pick up your horse's feet everyday and tap on the bottoms, or stick them in between your legs to get them used to the procedure. I won't tolerate any misbehaving with the farrier, even if it means twitching them once in awhile. The biggest thing is to work with your horses. Most farriers will not come back if your horses are bad, and I certainly don't blame them!


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## Dumas'_Grrrl (Apr 2, 2008)

I couldn't agree more...I would be SO embarrassed if my horse acted up for the farrier... I wouldn't WANT the farrier to work on my horse if it was acting up either. Why risk them getting hurt for a trim??? That doesn't even make sence to me. I go out and work my horses a bit to make sure they are in a good frame of mind before the farrier is to arrive and pick up their feet and rub down their legs. I know a farrier friend of the family (we don't use him because we don't shoe) will offer to sedate the horse and if the owner refuses he will not do the service yet he will bill for the milage and fuel costs because he was there to do the job. I also hold my horses for the farrier. I want to be there. I can understand wanting to hesitate because of the jerry rigged twitch but I would be on the side of the farrier.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

I would for 1 find another farrier and 2 work with your mare so that she behaves herself next time he comes.


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## Callie's Mom (May 18, 2008)

I was just faced with this myself a couple weeks ago... my farrier had me try twitching my mare to finish putting her last shoe on because we had tried everything and she was so upset... normally a very mellow horse rearing up, pulling away from us etc, it was obvious that she was in pain and we needed to get that shoe on and let her be done with it.
I had never twitched her before but it allowed him the finish the job and for her to relax.
I had work done on her this week (her back and that shoulder were out )  
If your horse is normally good for the farrier I'd get it checked for pain, if your hors normally has issues with the farrier- I'd find a farrier who can deal with the horse safely without having to twitch every time- if possible.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I think it's funny that so many people are yelling "find another farrier!"...

I looked hard and long to find my farrier, he's a very, VERY patient man. My horses are good but my mare has issues with the leg she injured last summer, she's pretty cowkicky because she doesnt want to flex, she's lost the mobility and it hurts, she also is lazy and puts 100% of her weight on him while he's doing that leg. I litteraly have to push with all my might to keep her from laying on him. He will spend an hour just trimming her. And then my baby, is only 2 and he's got your usually don't wanna stand don't wanna do it baby issues and this farrier is a SAINT! If he ever for any reason asked me to twitch a horse, I'd do it. I trust him.


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## kickshaw (May 7, 2008)

I am sure I'm not going to say anything that's not already been said, BUT: 

Twitching Issue: Scientifically, it does work. Psycologically, you stand a very good chance of making your horse goofy(er) about the whole process. Instead of twitching, practice as much as you can...if she gets rowled up, take her for a walk (if possible?) Can you shoe her outside/not in crossties?

Farrier Issue: My farrier would have taken your money, too. BUT, he would have come back out to do the feet another day. Sometimes farriers have bad days, and we all know that horses have bad days, too. It was probably just not the day for either of them. If your mare acts up again, ask him to take a break; let you walk the horse, let him sit and have a drink. 

When I hired my farrier 5 years ago, I made it perfectly clear that my horses tend to have little quirks. He and I agreed that I would be the one to discipline (if needed), and if it became impossible, we would try again later. So far, it's worked - and through patience and not quick fixes, my horses are basically "quirkless"

[ON SOAPBOX]Farriers are a bit like children (around here, this is how it is - owners and farriers in other areas, please please please don't take offense). They need their ego boosted on a regular, if not constant basis. Farriers are a bit like children in that they like to be the "biggest, baddest" dude out there...again, stroke ego. Farriers are like children in that they don't like it when someone pushes back - -it's a battle of brawn, and most farriers, like children, don't like to admit defeat. [OFF SOAPBOX]

I'm sorry that this happened to you and your mare. Hopefully, it will be a more pleasurable experience next time.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Kishshaw your soapbox speach was funny! LOL.... My farrier is a saint... I took me years and years and years to find him... he's so patient.......


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

kickshaw said:


> I am sure I'm not going to say anything that's not already been said, BUT:
> 
> Twitching Issue: Scientifically, it does work. Psycologically, you stand a very good chance of making your horse goofy(er) about the whole process. Instead of twitching, practice as much as you can...if she gets rowled up, take her for a walk (if possible?) Can you shoe her outside/not in crossties?
> 
> ...


Love what you said.


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## chasin the dream (Jun 2, 2008)

im all for it if its done properly.if we hadn't used one...im sure id be dead because my uncles colt was getting trimmed and it was horrible!


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## eclecticstar (Dec 18, 2008)

LinRodeo said:


> While I'm not a so called horse expert, I do have good horse sense.
> I won't always follow the instruction of a so call professional either because I know my horse best.
> 
> I failed to tell you guys that my horse is a purebred arab (hot tempered). She is extremely sensitive and on cross ties while shoeing her. It is not a good idea to use a twitch when the horse is cross tied (in case they rear up) Oh, I also failed to mention that he didnt actually have a twitch, and wanted to use a crimper (the farrier tool used to bend the nails).
> ...



I completely agree with the decision to not use his "professional advice". The horse I just adopted two weeks ago hadn't seen a farrier in four years and the prev owner stopped picking up her back feet last summer cause she kept kicking. He trimmed her first time, no problem! She is also an Arab. I'd switch farriers!:?


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## kchfuller (Feb 1, 2008)

i will have to go both ways on this one ... 

a twitch used correctly isn't bad

but your farrier shouldn't have to put himself in an uncomfortable situation to put shoes on. If your horse isn't willing to be worked with by the farrier then he shouldn't risk getting hurt. sometimes it is better to walk away with 2 shoes on then cause a big problem and get 4 on or 3(haha this would be horrible).

my mare is AMAZING for everything but her back right leg when she gets the shoes on. she doesn't hurt but she has learned that this is the one that she likes to through a fit on... i twist her ear (kinda like and alternative to a twitch) and she is normally better) i swear she has add but that is another story... anywho you have to find out what your horse needs done and your farrier should NEVER be in harms way in order to make you happy with 4 shoes. Over time your farrier will learn your horse and things should get better.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

1. Farrier's have a very hard job and their opinions should be respected but it is your horse if you don't feel comfortable you shouldn't do it. There are all sorts of different twitches.. buy one that you do feel comfortable using and keep it on hand for tough situations. Example: You have a colicky horse that won't let you get near them with a needle. There is no coming back at a better time.

2. It is your responsability to make sure your horse stands good for the farrier. I wasn't there to see how your horse was acting, but if your horse was a nut case I would charge you full price too.. 

3. Lunge the crap out of your horse before the farrier if she doesn't stand well. 

4. I will also "tease" with treats to keep them occupied if they are a little fresh. I hold them in my hand and rub their nose and face so they can smell it and give it too them only if they are standing quietly. I'm not big into treats but a farrier comes what? every 6 weeks? I think its ok. )

5. Good luck with your farrier! I hope you work out this issue.


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## I Love Lane (Dec 11, 2007)

i Have not read this whole thread so sorry if i get the wrong idea here but i think tht used in the correct manner a twitch is a very useful object. I have no hessitation in twitching one of my horses if they are misbehaving - it is not always a matter of training your horse better - some horses are just naughty in certain situations because they dont like it not because they dont know any better (like the way that some people are just jerks). I would much rather my farrier and myself were safe when dealing with an ill mannered horse then worried that a bit of pressure on the horses nose may make them annoyed at you......... jmo


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

I would not use a twitch. If the horse will just not stand still for the farrier, then I would really start working with the horse. But, bottom line, I won't use a twitch.


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## Horsegma (Dec 1, 2008)

Your situation is the exact reason why I had to get into horse training.

I bought a very young, green horse. I had the farrier come and do his hooves within the first few days of owning him and he was fine. 

Not the next time, he was more comfortable at his new home and wasn't afraid to show he was now afraid of the farrier.

My horse was all over the place, kicking, biting and eyes that were wild. It shocked me, I wasn't expecting this.

It was his back legs that really sent him in a tizzy.

I told my farrier he could stop, I didn't want him to get hurt. My farrier said he couldn't leave him uneven like that so he twitched him.

I swore that my horse was never going to have to be twitched again.

So, I put in hours and hours of working with him.

It is not the responsibility of the farrier to train a horse. That is putting their life at stack for under a hundred bucks! 

My farrier told me that this horse would always have to be twitched. Boy was he surprised when he came back the next time and there stood a more relaxed horse.

I did ask my farrier to take the time to reassure my horse throughout the trimming. As long as the farrier would stop and go back to his head and pet and talk to him, that kept him calmer.

By the third farrier visit my horse stood like a pro. I now do their hooves, but, I know that anyone can handle his hooves anytime.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

If your horse does not normally need a twitch and your farrier randomly pulled one out because the horse was being fussy, I'd grab the horse away, give the farrier 10 bucks and tell him cya later.I would then find another farrier.

If your horse on the other hand is known to be bad then you have some things to work on. I would impressed to see a farrier even come out for a horse that just does not handle itself well. When a farrier comes out, he should be expecting the horse to be well trained and have been worked with.


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## Skyhuntress (Sep 9, 2008)

My2Geldings said:


> If your horse does not normally need a twitch and your farrier randomly pulled one out because the horse was being fussy, I'd grab the horse away, give the farrier 10 bucks and tell him cya later.I would then find another farrier.
> 
> If your horse on the other hand is known to be bad then you have some things to work on. I would impressed to see a farrier even come out for a horse that just does not handle itself well. When a farrier comes out, he should be expecting the horse to be well trained and have been worked with.


 Exactly! 
if the farrier automatically goes to the twitch just because the horse is maybe a little fussy, id get another farrier. If, however, the horse was misbehaving, and was possibly even dangerous, than the farrier was definiately in his right to twitch the horse


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## g8ted4me (Sep 3, 2008)

A normal twitch can be an ok thing to use at the right times. I have used a twitch on my horses on rare occasions for vet, ect. (checking if my new mare was pregnant as we didn't know what she would do!) I don't feel that twitching this mare would have been the greatest choice. I think more was possibly behavior related and needed to be worked with not just like someone else said- masking the real problem at hand.

First off- the farrier has every right to not finish the job, as stated it is his job on the line and his body that could get injured to the point that he can't chance. I feel he had every right to charge you full price- would I be happy about it...NO, but I would understand as it was his time.

I don't like the fact that you use the excuse (or I took it as an excuse) "hot tempered" Arab. I feel like that is just a cop out for a not behaved horse. Take the time and work with your horse. Take her out of the cross ties and hold your darn horse. When she is misbehaving make it uncomfortable.....with your farrier in the loop the second he gets out of the way make her do circles or something- correct the right behavior- just standing there and letting the farrier do his job. 
I guess I feel that you should be working with your mare. Picking up her feet, ect. Yes, horses have off days, but if this becomes routine then the owner has to take responsibility and correct the issue. 
If we have a horse that gets a bit lazy about picking up their hooves for us- we begin a daily routine of picking and working with thier hooves. It just becomes "normal" then. 
I have a foal that is not even 6 months old and I work with him daily on his feet and it is so routine. I don't shoe my horses and will not shoe, but I still take my hand on the bottom of his hoof and pound a bit to get him used to a loud noise on the bottom there. I use the rasp and hoof jack to make my trimmers job easier.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

I've got an Arabian mare, Brianna (She almost looks exactly like your own!) who is the most quiet horse in the world on the ground, but as soon as you go for her legs she just trips herself out.
He put the twitch on her after she had tried to cow-kick him and almost got him right in the head.
I do not expect my farrier to come out and put himself in harms way of ANY horse and if they act like that, they need to be disciplined.
HOWEVER, the farrier needs to be educated on twitches and have the proper tools. My farrier left it one only for a minute before he removed it from her.
We got her front feet done but I left her back until I worked more with her, because I wasn't going to have him getting hurt.
I've seen some trainers even just reach in and pull their tongue out, and that seems to work. 

Beautiful mare, by the way? What is her pedigree?


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## tazassape (Oct 8, 2008)

Didn't read all the post but in my opinion the farrier did no wrong. It is the owners job to provide a SAFE animal to the farrier. It's not his job to train them. And I think that is her biggest problem. Lack of respect or ground manners.


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

A twitch when used properly is a great tool. After being married to a farrier for 12 years I think they should use a twitch more often or refuse to do poorly trained horses.


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

it doesnt sound like to me that the ferrier gave your horse enough time to settle down and wanted to jump right to the twitch. I think you need a new ferrier. Major is a nervous horse around the ferrier and the last time he was having his hooves trimmed he kept pulling away and jerking his hoof away. the ferrier stopped for a few minutes and petted him and calmed him down....then finished the job....no more problems. Sometimes thats all they need. sounds like your ferrier was just interested in hurrying up and getting the job done.


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

I'm not sure how i'd feel if my farrier put a twitch on any of my horses. Vega is a dream so I can never see one being used on her. Montana gets fussy but settles down as well.
Gem on the other hand, we've been working with him to have a very dramatic free shoeing/trimming. Gem has tried to rear, backs up, goes forward, tries to nip the farrier, etc. 
Our farrier has never suggested that, so I can't see one being used.


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## 1dog3cats17rodents (Dec 7, 2007)

Twitches are very useful tools. My horse through a fit getting clipped (rearing, spinning, kicking) It was not safe for anyone invloved, so he got twitched and settled right down. It's like picking up a kitten by the scruff, it makes them relax. 

Get the twitch on QUICK though or you might have a problem. My horses upper lip is short and thick, so getting it on was, uh, "interesting". Once he had it on he was fine though.


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## bgood400 (Nov 10, 2008)

I personally think that twiches work very well. We twich my horse every time we have to clip his ears, it's never a problem.


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## Ne0n Zero (Dec 25, 2008)

I'm not sure about twitches but last time I saw one used, the horse's lips turned full-out blue 'cause it was so tight. However, it was for mane-pulling. Still doesn't make it different though.

I was really ****ed when my old trainer used a gum chain on my horse and made him bleed.


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## Curly_Horse_CMT (Jun 8, 2008)

I think that twitches are a useful tool, but only when used properly, of course. Once, one of or ex ex farriers used a twitch on our paint mare that is already touchy about her feet and hates being tied. So,she likes to already rear back if she doesnt like the person handling her feet. We were trying the guy out, and the first and second time he came out he did fine with our horses, but then he just seemed to get really impatient and when she didnt want to stand still, he got p****d and went right for the twitch without even asking us. I was really angry when I heard about it (only my mom was there) Luckily, my mom said to stop, of course. We stopped using him after that. 

So, what I bealive is this: the person that owns the horse should know it just as well as the farrier. When to use the twitch, when not to. If the horse cant handle it, then dont push it. Work with your horse if it becomes dangerous with the farrier, so a twich isnt needed. I dont think it should be used everytime. Once or twice, but no more then that. If there is a situation where the twitch is required, then you should know that your horse has some issues to be worked on when it comes to handling having it's feet trimmed and shod even. Just my two cents :lol:


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## hotreddun (Jun 27, 2008)

I didn't read the whole topic...but here's my 2 cents...

Every situation needs to be looked at seperately to see if the farrier is being abusive BUT IN GENERAL...I'd rather put a little pressure on a horse's nose and let the farrier do his job...then have the farrier wrestle with a horse...nip him to close and have the horse lame for months :?


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## somersetfarms (Jan 6, 2009)

I know this is an old post, but being a farrier I feel a need to reply. 
As many of the posters have said, it's NOT the farrier's job to train your horse. 
It's not the farrier's job to risk their lives. 
If a horse is upset it should NOT be in crossties, the owner (or someone who knows the horse) should be holding it. 
If the horse is too upset, I may suggest twitching or putting on a "Stableizer" ( The Stableizer ) or some sort of war bridle, or sedation if available. 
It is up to the horse owner have their horse trained and be able to control their horse. 
I personally have charged full price and not completed a job when the horse esculates to the point of being dangerous. One reason I will charge full price is because I don't want to come back to work on a dangerous horse, especially if the owner isn't cooperating with the training or restraining of the animal. 

Have you ever seen a farrier with their knee blown out from a kick? 
Have you ever seen a farrier with a broken arm or leg from a kick? 
Have you ever seen a farrier with their face kicked in? 
Have you ever seen a farrier being thrown 30 feet from a hind leg kick? 
I have seen all of these, it's not pretty, there is no reason NOT to do everything you possibly can to keep the farrier safe.


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## saddleEMupCOWGURL (Jan 5, 2009)

Yup- if he wasn't going to use the proper equipment, it's not worth the risk of possibly ruining your horses future ferrier experiences... good choice!! I would have paid full price instead, also


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## ohmyitschelle (Aug 23, 2008)

I haven't finished reading this conversation, but thought I'd put in my 2 cents 

I have a mare who I have to twitch to have injections in her neck and sedated to have her teeth done. She is fine when I come out with a syringe and put it on her neck, even if the vet does the same... but she becomes a complete and utter mess with a real needle... you can't leave that down to manners or my not trying everything out to fix this problem cos thats not the case at all. She has very good ground manners for the vet in every other way, just injections and her teeth. For the benefit and safety of everyone in the situation, I will gladly twitch or sedate her. Why risk someone's life? It takes only one kick to kill sometimes, and I certainly don't want that on my conscience. 

As for asking for the horse to be twitched if it was playing up to be shod, again if the farrier has tried and just can't do a GOOD ENOUGH JOB, then I'd gladly twitch... he's dealing with their feet, and the first thing a horse, as a flight/fight animal will attempt to flee... if it can't it will use it's feet. I can understand the logic... I also dont want to be paying for a job done poorly because my horse won't behave itself. (Not that I've ever had to twitch for feet, but I would if asked).

I do not however believe in using anything but a twitch (or man made one with a handle and twine) to twitch a horse. I am glad you stopped that from happening. Sucks that you paid full price also. But I can see the logic in twitching.

Hope you can find another farrier who is more suitable to your mare.
x


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## TimeChaser (Jan 13, 2009)

Twitching, in my opinion, is perfectly fine. It does not hurt the horse if done properly. While it is not my first choice, it is sometimes a needed tool. It is a way to keep your farrier safe while he is trying to take care of your horse's feet. If you are against the idea of the twitch, work with your horse's feet to desenitize them (lifting them, tapping or slapping your palm against them, etc.) before your next farrier appointment. You might want to work on some ground manners with her as well, if that seems to be the problem. If you belive that the farrier was causing the problem (if he was treating her roughly for example), I would look for another one. I hope this helps!


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## mandaleacalico (Feb 14, 2009)

I would get a new farrier. If he gave up without trying different things to get her to stand, means he's got a short temper. When my horse was shod, he fell over and was stiff in his knee, and couldn't stand for that long on it (with the other leg up of course) 

Our horses would go in a small yard, with their halters on the gate, and his money under the rock next to the water trough.

I came home one day, with small sores on Taffy's stifle, that were bleeding. Even though it wasn't much, it was still noticeable. 

My farrier had whacked my horse with the rasp every time he tried to put his foot down because he was hurting.

We got rid of that farrier quick smart.

I don't like using twitches, and Taffy had a twitch used on him for the first time last year - he got a grass seed in his eye, and it scratched his retina, so we had to take him to the vet. I though that using the twitch was unnecessary, seeing as he was obviously in pain. And it made things worse. The vet eventually had to sedate him, numb his eye, and get him to lay on the grass so he could look at it.

I could have just lugged his ear, but obviously that was to easy.

To lug an ear, grab it and squeeze it, and sorta pull it down. It seems horrible, but all it does is make them think about something else other than what's going on. Or, you could give her small pinches on her neck, and give her big praise when it's over.


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## Lucara (Apr 5, 2008)

I don't like twitches and would do any other resort before using them but I know Samson had to be twitched when we first started getting him trimmed. His previous owners always had him sedated because it was faster and less of a hassle I suppose. So, the first time we had him trimmed w/o sedation he freaked out. He ended rearing up and caught the farrier in the back. The guy we used was very professional though, and did his best to calm him down before using the twitch.


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## I Love Lane (Dec 11, 2007)

i think it comes down to safety myself. To me it is more important to keep your farrier safe by putting a little pressure on the horse then so be it. It is not fair to the farrier to put himself at risk because you dont want to twitch your horse so get another farrier that has more time or deal with his rules....... they are the choices that you ultimately have.......


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## booner (Aug 17, 2008)

My horse was twitched last time he got shoes, hadnt the few times before but he was behaving badly and he straightened right up after, so it worked out well, but I wasnt there to see the whole deal and when I first heard about it I was ****ed(got over it) but I trust the farrier to do what is appropriate and safe for all.It may take the one twitch experience to settle my horse down or a few.We'll see but I really dont want to search for another guy now.He knows our horses and they know him.


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