# Worst advice?



## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

"You need to buy this Wade tree Buck Brannaman saddle. You'll find that his saddles fit every horse and every rider because they are made to his design." (I ride English; did not follow this advice).


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## Caledonian (Nov 27, 2016)

On you get, have a ride around. You'll grow into her and, honestly, she'll be the best buy you'll ever make.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

I really have not had too much input on riding. About the only bad advice that I have gotten was unasked for advice, lol. I have received well intended but bad advice on horse care but that is another story. I have also received bad advice on what kind of riding equipment to use on horses if you want to call it advice. It was more like comments just put out. 

One piece of bad advice that comes to mind for me. "You really shouldn't use a bosal for trail riding. The horse could get away from you and it's really hard on their noses. You really should use one of these" as I am being shown a thin twisted wire snaffle bit. I know it's all in the hands of the rider and personally I don't have issues with one using something like a spade bit if used correctly. But a thin twisted wire snaffle looks horrifying to me.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

Avna said:


> "You need to buy this Wade tree Buck Brannaman saddle. You'll find that his saddles fit every horse and every rider because they are made to his design." (I ride English; did not follow this advice).


The only thing missing from this advice would be to spell it like so: "_because they are made to *His* design_"!


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

The worse advice I received - way back in 1964 came from several school teachers and a careers officer - Don't go into horses, you will soon tire of it.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

Foxhunter said:


> The worse advice I received - way back in 1964 came from several school teachers and a careers officer - Don't go into horses, you will soon tire of it.


I got that kind of advice from my parents when I was young. Their reasoning was "It's too expensive". I think that they kind of knew better than to tell me that I would tire of it.


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## Sandycat (Apr 7, 2017)

When I was 10 or 11, I took a couple riding "lessons" at a neighbor's house. When it was time to trot I was told to "kick her hard and hold on". Looking back, the neighbors were pretty rough on their horses. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Just give him a good boot to go, pull the reins to stop. And never get off if they're being 'disobedient' & always get straight back on if you fall/are thrown.

You can't do any real riding without a bit/horse shoes.(these days I refer those people to Houston mounted police...)

And yeah, I got careers advice to the tune of its not realistic to want a horsey shmorsey job - horses only cost you money, you can't make a living working with them. Hence it took me many years of drifting thru crap jobs I hated before I took a horsey shmorsey career seriously.


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## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

*"You don't want to compete? My goodness, don't even THINK about owning a horse. It really isn't worth owning a horse unless you compete."*

*"Keep your stirrups so long that you leg will stretch down into it."* (This is how I got good at cantering without stirrups ****) 
*
"You're scared of mounting your horse? Sell her, she doesn't deserve your type. Get a cob."* :'< (This was at a place I'd only ridden once and from another rider on the same hack...)

*"If he bolts on you hang on for dear life, do not let him go at any cost"* in regards to an old stubborn 17hh thing while hand walking him. I ended up rolling under his belly while he ran off >.< decided then to NEVER follow that advice at my own risk.


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## george the mule (Dec 7, 2014)

About the only thing that comes to mind is an old cowboy once explaining to me that you can't ride trail in an English saddle. "They just ain't safe out in the woods, don't ya know."
I didn't argue the point with him, having ridden plenty of "unsafe" miles on Oily in his Dressage saddle; just lucky, I guess


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"_Get a bigger whip!_"

New to riding. Had a very nervous Arabian mare who had grown up in corrals and had no experience in the real world. Not surprisingly - or at least not to anyone with some experience - she was afraid of a lot of things and didn't want to go where she was very afraid.

I was told to get a whip and just whip her past. Tried a little one. Didn't work. Was told to "Get a bigger whip!" So I took an 8' leather split rein and folded it over in half, giving me a 4' long, heavy leather double whip. When she balked, I whipped her.

She started backing up. The harder I whipped her, the faster we went - backwards! About 200 yards later, running out of room to go back, it occurred to me I had received some bad advice. When I stopped whipping, she stopped backing. Then we stopped, and she looked back at me & I swear she said, "_I don't know what that scary thing was, but it sure hurt me! But don't worry. I got us both away!_" In all seriousness, I don't think she realized I was the one whipping her...

Horrible advice from people with decades of experience. Glad the mare didn't hold it against me! *Shameful advice.* My first lesson in not trusting people just because they had ridden XX years!

PS: Had her 7 years. She taught me a lot and I taught her some. Traded her for my current horse. She now lives in northern Arizona, has had 2 foals, and goes pretty much everywhere in a bosal.


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## JoCash (Dec 20, 2017)

I think the for the most part, when horse people give advice they are trying to help. Sometimes people are not ready for the advice, such as "it's you, not the horse".

But with that being said, I have heard some things I thought were a little crazy at the time.

When I was still able to ride bare back as an adult, I often would. This would usually be for a quick trail ride for about 30 minutes when I just wanted to ride after work before it got dark or if it was hot or something. One old cowboy told me I was making my horses back sore and I needed to have the saddle on to protect his back.........Now as I kid I only rode bare back. For hours here, there and everywhere. The horses were fit and not sore. As an adult I was fit and in good shape ( not so much now lol) my horse was also. So.....

I have heard that English saddles are worse for a horses back because they have contact with the horses back over a smaller area and therefore put more pressure on the back. I have heard that Western saddles are worse because they are bigger and heavier. From various people depending on who you talk to.

In my search for a well fitting saddle for my barrel horse who was proving hard to fit, I was told by a woman to buy an Arab saddle because they were the horses with the widest backs.......that was probably the worst advice. But she was trying to be helpful.


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## Sagebrushhh (Mar 31, 2018)

I ride mules. On a mule, the back cinch must always, always, ALWAYS, be tighter than the front cinch. The way their bodies are designed, they;ll slip the saddle off otherwise. Someone told me this was false, so I rode with a loose back cinch on my mule. She rolled the saddle off, reared out of it, and I thankfully managed to avoid any broken bones.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

My well-meaning parents told me I couldn't make a career with horses, so I didn't. And I regret it.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

My worst advice was told to me by a 4-H leader, "Throw your heart over the fence and your horse will follow." If you are riding stubborn ponies, this is very bad advice. I threw my heart over the fence, and then I went over the fence . . . without the pony. Many times. You may believe with your heart and soul that the pony is going to jump, but man, that pony has other ideas.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Sagebrushhh said:


> I ride mules. On a mule, the back cinch must always, always, ALWAYS, be tighter than the front cinch. The way their bodies are designed, they;ll slip the saddle off otherwise. Someone told me this was false, so I rode with a loose back cinch on my mule. She rolled the saddle off, reared out of it, and I thankfully managed to avoid any broken bones.


That I would love to have seen!




knightrider said:


> My worst advice was told to me by a 4-H leader, "Throw your heart over the fence and your horse will follow." If you are riding stubborn ponies, this is very bad advice. I threw my heart over the fence, and then I went over the fence . . . without the pony. Many times. You may believe with your heart and soul that the pony is going to jump, but man, that pony has other ideas.


My instructor would tell me "Well, you meant to go over it even if the pony didn't!"


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

"A curb bit will give the horse a dead mouth."

" Shoeing makes horses lame."

" Alfalfa is the only hay suitable for horses."

I never listen to absolutes.


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

"I should really lunge her first though. I always lunge her first."
"Pfffffffft, just get on, you'll be FINE!"


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

SteadyOn said:


> "I should really lunge her first though. I always lunge her first."
> "Pfffffffft, just get on, you'll be FINE!"



Nope, lunge first CAN be good advice or the biggest waste of time...my view of this changed when we bought Fergie, first horse that I ever lunged before riding....

Worst advice I listened to...My mate saying "He's fine you are just to fussy"


So instead of moving Big Ben to a better place and mounting, I went with what I had, and woke up in an impact crater with the ambulance in attendance.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

The worst advice I ever received, albeit it was well-meaning, came from a lifelong friend in 1998 when I was moving from PA to SoCal. I was 51 at the time and had owned horses my entire life:

"*That old truck (1978) will never make the trip --- especially pulling the horse trailer. You'd be much better off selling the truck and the horses --- they can all be replaced".
*

The truck and those three horses not only made it to SoCal, they made it to Tennessee for retirement five years later (2003). Two of the three horses made it to 27 & 29, and are were laid to rest on this property in 2014 & 2015. The third horse is now 24 and will join his buds when his time comes. The truck still runs "like a top".


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

Golden Horse said:


> Nope, lunge first CAN be good advice or the biggest waste of time...my view of this changed when we bought Fergie, first horse that I ever lunged before riding.....


With the pony in question, she was really green and always needed something done with her for at least 10-15 minutes before it was a good idea to get on her. And then she'd be fine. It was more about getting her focused and in "work brain." Didn't have to be lunging. Could be taking her for a long hand-walk, having her move her body around, etc. Just about getting her mind on you.

This time, when I took the bad advice and skipped getting "work brain" from her first, she exploded and threw herself on the ground the second I mounted... Twice in a row. Glad she didn't kill me.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

SteadyOn said:


> With the pony in question, she was really green and always needed something done with her for at least 10-15 minutes before it was a good idea to get on her. And then she'd be fine. It was more about getting her focused and in "work brain." Didn't have to be lunging. Could be taking her for a long hand-walk, having her move her body around, etc. Just about getting her mind on you.
> 
> This time, when I skipped getting "work brain" from her first, she exploded and threw herself on the ground the second I mounted... Twice in a row. Glad she didn't kill me.





LOL. brain work, that's it entirely.....I would lunge Fergie and then you would see the brain actually engage, then I could get on, it was as obvious as a switch being thrown...Now I just get on...having said that been away for a month, may have to re-asses that :rofl::rofl:


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Kalraii said:


> *"You don't want to compete? My goodness, don't even THINK about owning a horse. It really isn't worth owning a horse unless you compete."*


Gee Kalraii you've had some rippers! The above reminds me of someone getting stuck into me years ago for going away & leaving my horse for a year(in care of a friend of course, with other horses on 100 acres), because I was incredibly cruel not to have someone ride him regularly.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

She's been out with Hounds before getting on a young horse in Eire only to be bucked off before my butt hit the saddle. 

Yes, she had been out with Hounds more than once but only because she jumped out of her field and followed them loose!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I was told that I should have whipped my horse when it spooked, since he knew he shouldn't be spooking


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## SwissMiss (Aug 1, 2014)

Double pad, that will make your (too narrow) saddle fit :shock:


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

"Never neck-rein that horse again. You'll just confuse her."

I bought a really lovely, finished Western horse who neck-reined beautifully, but I mostly rode English, and my instructor at the time insisted I convert her COMPLETELY. Missed a lot of opportunities. Of COURSE I could have done both. Ugh!


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

SwissMiss said:


> Double pad, that will make your (too narrow) saddle fit :shock:


Double pad a NARROW saddle? :rofl:


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Don't give a horse treats, that will spoil them and they won't work.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Kick them in the gut and then you can pull the girth tight. Horses hold their breath when you go to saddle them


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Draft horses have to be put in stocks for shoeing (this from a farrier)


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

"If you correct him hard enough (for bad behavior) he won't to it again!" 

Yes, actually he will. 

And now I feel like I have an adversarial relationship with my horse. It has taken a long time to get over that way of thinking too. :evil:


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

And here's one I've never tried. "If they rear up, crack an egg over their head!"


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

knightrider said:


> My worst advice was told to me by a 4-H leader, "Throw your heart over the fence and your horse will follow." If you are riding stubborn ponies, this is very bad advice. I threw my heart over the fence, and then I went over the fence . . . without the pony. Many times. You may believe with your heart and soul that the pony is going to jump, but man, that pony has other ideas.


Well, that sound romantic. Your pony can see all of your little heart bubbles floating over the fence :loveshower:and just follow them like they are alfalfa lollipops. And then, THUD, you wake up. :confused_color: lol


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

AnitaAnne said:


> Don't give a horse treats, that will spoil them and they won't work.


I just ruined almost all the horses at the farm. I found a bag of mints in my kitchen cabinet, and each horse that said Hi! to me at the fence got one today. Should be an interesting week then...


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

@mmshiro now, if you go ruinin' those horses, they're gonna have to throw you out of the barn!


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

trailhorserider said:


> And here's one I've never tried. "If they rear up, crack an egg over their head!"


:rofl: oh my I forgot about that one!! I have plenty of eggs...now how do I get the horse to rear up so I can test it??


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

I guess the winner of worst advice was the person who told my mom that I would grow out of the "horsey stage" 


:riding:


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

AnitaAnne said:


> Don't give a horse treats, that will spoil them and they won't work.


Well of course they 'should' work purely out of desire to please you, because they know you're their God, not for a reward - there's absolutely no reason to give them anything better than lack of pressure & verbal praise or a good smack on the neck as a reward. If you start giving food treats, they will only work for treats & never want to work just for a person ever again! And you'll have to have a bucket on you whenever you go near them & you will turn them mean, make them 'rude', start biting you.... etc etc. Oh and you'll make them fat, make them insulin resistant, don't forget that! (Rolling eyes & muttering)


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

It's OK to stand in front of a horse running at you - it will never run you over. Yep - false. I still have the scar to prove it.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Some really great ones in here! 

I haven't had a lot of bad advice in recent years, but as a teenager in the 80s, heard some doozies. Since it was pre-Internet, I had no way of finding out if they were true, so sadly, my poor horse paid the price. 

The worst one was "Don't let your horse go out for more than 1-2 hours a day because he'll become wild and impossible to handle." 

My horses now have 24/7 turnout. And oddly, they don't act like wild stallions!


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

"Just make her do it."


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## george the mule (Dec 7, 2014)

mmshiro said:


> I just ruined almost all the horses at the farm. I found a bag of mints in my kitchen cabinet, and each horse that said Hi! to me at the fence got one today. Should be an interesting week then...


George runs on Peppermints, and will reach back and tap me on the knee when he thinks another installment is due. "Quarters for the Pony Ride." ;-)

Oh; and he does a particularly nice job for one of the chocolate ones I get from the Mexican restaurant sometimes.

Interestingly enough, this rewards program is negotiable. "George, you just _had_ a Peppermint. Let's get down to the creek (whatever), and I'll get you another one." Sometimes he forgets, but equally as often he remembers, and pulls a full stop at the creek crossing until the promised candy is produced. We're riding in a club Obstacle Course/Fundraiser event next month; wonder if we lose points for bribery :-D


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

AnitaAnne said:


> Double pad a NARROW saddle? :rofl:



It still is pretty common belief that you can make any saddle fit if you add more pads....


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

_"The only way to teach a horse to tie is to hard tie 'em to a good post and let 'em fight it out."_

Uhm… *no*.

_"Get in the trailer and pull while someone whips him from behind."_

Not just *no*, but *He77 NO*!

_"Don't hose that horse down if he's still hot and sweaty after a ride - you'll put him in shock!"_

Really? I guess that means I can't ride him through the creek. He's pretty hot and sweaty!


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

LoriF said:


> Well, that sound romantic. Your pony can see all of your little heart bubbles floating over the fence :loveshower:and just follow them like they are alfalfa lollipops. And then, THUD, you wake up. :confused_color: lol


It is an old saying what it really means is to be determined to get to the other side of the fence preferably with the horse! The horse will feel the determination and more than likely jump it. 

Something I often saw was with people riding cross country, I would tell them to jump a fence placed on a steep hill probably around 2'6" so uphill it was a higher jump, there were rarely any problems. Reverse direction and tell them to jump it downhill and most riders would let the horses run out or refuse because they were worried about the downhill slope.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

AnitaAnne said:


> Kick them in the gut and then you can pull the girth tight. Horses hold their breath when you go to saddle them



This was standard operating procedure when I was a kid, not on horses, but on ponies...the sight of small people trying to get their knee high enough to give a swift 'oomph' in the stomach of a round and hairy pony was a usual sight. Funny it was always the ponies that you could barely get the girth to meet on, and then would spend the rest of the ride taking girths up!


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Just hop on this one, he looks a little sparky but you'll be fine. No I wasn't.

If he takes hold (out hunting) just aim at a big hedge and that will stop him. No it didn't, he jumped it galloped a smallish circle and jumped back to join up with the rest of the 'field'.

If you were to have asked my parents:
'Just get her a pony, she'll soon get bored and fed up with the work they involve and get into something less expensive and time consuming.' No that didn't work.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

SwissMiss said:


> Double pad, that will make your (too narrow) saddle fit :shock:


I forgot all about that bad advice. That one went right through one ear and out the other with me. Why would anyone even think that would work.

You all are making me feel bad. I haven't given my girls any treats for a while. Now I'll have to stop at the store for some mints on the way to the farm today.


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## SwissMiss (Aug 1, 2014)

LoriF said:


> You all are making me feel bad. I haven't given my girls any treats for a while. Now I'll have to stop at the store for some mints on the way to the farm today.


The barn we are at has a strict "no hand-fed treats" policy. 
My mare is the only exception, as I always give her a whoa cookie when she stands for mounting. Guess which horse in that barn stands like a rock while/after I get on ? :biggrin:


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

SwissMiss said:


> The barn we are at has a strict "no hand-fed treats" policy.
> My mare is the only exception, as I always give her a whoa cookie when she stands for mounting. Guess which horse in that barn stands like a rock while/after I get on ? :biggrin:



I'm not really against treats, I guess I've just been being thoughtless and stingy about it. lol They would be mad if they saw how much my dogs get them.


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

Mine give me goo-goo eyes, hypnotize me, and the next thing I know, they're eating treats from my hand. Bad me. Bad me.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Change said:


> Mine give me goo-goo eyes, hypnotize me, and the next thing I know, they're eating treats from my hand. Bad me. Bad me.


Here comes "worst advice" from me, lollol:

I have been taking soda crackers to the barn with me this summer because I sweat so much --- haven't had a muscle cramp since I started doing that

I made the mistake of giving each of the horses a soda cracker early on ----- to my amazement both horses love those salty soda cracks more than the Manna Pro horse treats that look like Mini Tootsie Rolls!

I can't let Joker pig out on too much of that starch but he gets more soda crackers than Manna Pro cookies, lol

And if anyone were to feed a few, cup them, edge up in your hand so the horse can easily lip the cracker(s) right into thy mouth

Worst treat advice from someone who knows better:|:|


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

carshon said:


> It's OK to stand in front of a horse running at you - it will never run you over. Yep - false. I still have the scar to prove it.


Bad advice?? But it doesn't matter that you were run down - Monty Roberts did it, repeatedly, despite being run down every time! So it must be good advice??

I was given the book 'the man who listens to horses' before I'd otherwise heard of the bloke. His description of doing things like this had me think he was... a bit of a goose. And had me very perplexed when I learned how wonderful so many people thought he was...


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

walkinthewalk said:


> - haven't had a muscle cramp since I started doing that


OT & something I guess you're probably aware of(maybe 'soda crackers' whatever they are address this) but magnesium is likely what you're lacking if you get cramps or muscle spasms.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Change said:


> Mine give me goo-goo eyes, hypnotize me, and the next thing I know, they're eating treats from my hand. Bad me. Bad me.


Your horses are excellent trainers! Mine too...


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

walkinthewalk said:


> Here comes "worst advice" from me, lollol:
> 
> I have been taking soda crackers to the barn with me this summer because I sweat so much --- haven't had a muscle cramp since I started doing that
> 
> I made the mistake of giving each of the horses a soda cracker early on ----- to my amazement both horses love those salty soda cracks more than the Manna Pro horse treats that look like Mini Tootsie Rolls!


Mine love cool ranch doritos but can't stand cheese nips crackers. Cheese nips make them gag. They'll stand there with their heads hanging, mouth wide open trying to get them to fall out. It's pretty funny actually. Kind of like putting tape on a cats paws. I know, I'm mean.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

I've heard so much bad advice over the years that I can't remember specifics. I do remember good advice that I didn't listen to..."You can only ride one horse at a time" advice given by ME to a friend complaining he couldn't go riding with us because he had too much work to do what with having 30 - 40 horses. Guess what I turned around and did several years later? Highest count was 32 when we were breeding them but down to only 9 now. LOL


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## seabiscuit91 (Mar 30, 2017)

*saddle doesn't fit horse*

Your girth isn't tight enough. 

Yep.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

LoriF said:


> Mine love cool ranch doritos but can't stand cheese nips crackers. Cheese nips make them gag. They'll stand there with their heads hanging, mouth wide open trying to get them to fall out. It's pretty funny actually. *Kind of like putting tape on a cats paws. * I know, I'm mean.





tape on a cat's paw!!!! oh, girl . . . . you make a me laugh!!!!!


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## hollystewart500 (Aug 28, 2018)

*You don't EVER need to put a cover on horses*

Advice we got when we were new to owning horses. Our poor TB who was used to wearing covers her whole life suffered a few miserable nights in negative temperatures with driving wind and rain and NO shelter.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

carshon said:


> It's OK to stand in front of a horse running at you - it will never run you over. Yep - false. I still have the scar to prove it.


Oh, I did that once...only difference is that it worked out. I was leading a horse that was being bullied off the pasture, when one of the horses came at us full speed. I led it come closer before throwing my arms up and yelling at it to, uhm, how shall I put it, kindly pick a different path of travel. It's the surprise that made it change its path, not my standing there, I believe. Sometimes a horse spooking is a feature, not a bug...


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

walkinthewalk said:


> And if anyone were to feed a few, cup them, edge up in your hand so the horse can easily lip the cracker(s) right into thy mouth
> 
> Worst treat advice from someone who knows better:|:|


The mints I gave them can fall to the ground easily because they are so small and a horses's lips aren't exactly surgical instruments. So I gave them the mints holding them between the tips of my index finger and thumb, placing them between their teeth.

That's right...living on the edge!


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

mmshiro said:


> Oh, I did that once...only difference is that it worked out. I was leading a horse that was being bullied off the pasture, when one of the horses came at us full speed. I led it come closer before throwing my arms up and yelling at it to, uhm, how shall I put it, kindly pick a different path of travel. It's the surprise that made it change its path, not my standing there, I believe. Sometimes a horse spooking is a feature, not a bug...


We used to live next to a forest trail coming down a steep hill, right past our property. Before our house was built, my husband had built me a tiny writing studio there. I was writing ... and I heard faint shouts and screams! So I ran out, and heard "Stop him! Stop him!" and heard galloping hoofs. 

Naturally, I dashed to the bottom of the trail, just in time for a big loose saddled horse to come charging wild-eyed down the hill at me. I threw up my arms and said "WHOA! WHOA!" He slid to a stop and I grabbed his reins. In a couple minutes a lady came charging out of the woods after him. She was kind of gobsmacked that I had caught him. She said she dropped her hat, got off to get it, and her horse got away from her. 

I didn't think much of it and it was only after I had recounted it a few times that I gathered that I had been a hero. I did the same thing to a four foot iguana once. It's my nature to catch animals trying to escape, I guess. I mean, isn't it everyone's?


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## george the mule (Dec 7, 2014)

mmshiro said:


> The mints I gave them can fall to the ground easily because they are so small and a horses's lips aren't exactly surgical instruments. So I gave them the mints holding them between the tips of my index finger and thumb, placing them between their teeth.
> 
> That's right...living on the edge!


Well mine have "Surgeons" lips then:

You can drop a handful of sweet-feed into gravel, and they will delicately pick it out, leaving a nose-sized crater in the gravel. They can segregate a single blade of grass from the surrounding unpalatable background vegetation. They can (and I'm still struggling with this one) pluck and devour Thistle flowers, and do so enthusiastically whenever the opportunity arises. Ever try to pick a Thistle?!?

And these are free-fed Epicurean Equines, too (BCS 5.5 - 6); by no means "starving" horses


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## george the mule (Dec 7, 2014)

Acadianartist said:


> Your horses are excellent trainers! Mine too...


And mine as well; they are both subtle and consistent in their efforts, and once they get a desired response, they never forget . . .

Oily has learned that if he comes into the barn while I'm doing chores and looks wistful, I will usually give him a fistful of Alfalfa shake. Now, just like clockwork, after the others have finished their breakfast and gone on about their day, I can count on Oily to show up for that little extra treat.

Long ago, George taught me to do his ears for him. Then I began to notice that after a thorough "Ear Job", he would step forward and present me with The Butt. "What's with The Butt, Georgie; didn't you like having your ears scratched?" It wasn't until he began to back up and gently bump me with the thing that his dull human realized he wanted a butt-scratch in addition to the ears; a Full-Service Scratch, if you please.

That immediately became a routine; the ears, then the butt, and now The Mare Mandolin has learned the cue as well . . .

So from that; more questionable Equine advice: "Having a horse present his butt means he is angry with you." Undoubtedly, sometimes, but by no means invariably


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

george the mule said:


> Well mine have "Surgeons" lips then:
> 
> You can drop a handful of sweet-feed into gravel, and they will delicately pick it out,


Yeah, but the challenge is to pick it up on the first try, from an area equal to the palm of your hand, rather than shuffling it around with your lips to (a) find where it is located, (b) explore it, and finally (c) grab a hold of it. It's usually the "locating" phase when the candy gets pushed off the hand if I stick to the "flat hand only" technique.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Always feed a horse a treat from the palm of your hand. 

I found this problematic with the little children, anything would roll off their hand so as he treat was nearly always a carrot I would have them hold the carrot in their first. The horses were always very gentle taking small bites and near the end feeling for little fingers.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

george the mule said:


> And mine as well; they are both subtle and consistent in their efforts, and once they get a desired response, they never forget . . .
> 
> Oily has learned that if he comes into the barn while I'm doing chores and looks wistful, I will usually give him a fistful of Alfalfa shake. Now, just like clockwork, after the others have finished their breakfast and gone on about their day, I can count on Oily to show up for that little extra treat.
> 
> ...





It's remarkable how many people do not realize how much there horse would like the inside of his/her ears scratched. Admittedly, some horses do not like this, but many do! when I show them, the owners are like, "Wow! I never even thought of that". Same with the mare enjoying being cleaned /scratched between her teats. So many mare owners don't even realize that their mare needs to be cleaned there, and how pleasurable it is for her to be scratched there. I show them and they are surprised. It never even occurred to them.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

tinyliny said:


> It's remarkable how many people do not realize how much there horse would like the inside of his/her ears scratched. Admittedly, some horses do not like this, but many do! when I show them, the owners are like, "Wow! I never even thought of that". Same with the mare enjoying being cleaned /scratched between her teats. So many mare owners don't even realize that their mare needs to be cleaned there, and how pleasurable it is for her to be scratched there. I show them and they are surprised. It never even occurred to them.


Kodak was terribly head-shy when I first got her. They said she was always trying to get out of working, couldn't be haltered (so they just left her halter on 24/7), and was "aloof" because she didn't like people. 

I worked hard to desensitize her to having her head touched, but the day she discovered I could reach inside those ears and scratch all those bug bites was a changing moment. 

This summer, I was giving her all-over scratches on a particularly bug-ridden day, and got to her udder. I got right in there between her teats, finding lots of bug bites to scratch. Ever since, she walks up to me anytime I'm nearby, and puts me right at her flank. So when we do our ground work routine, at the end, I take her halter off and we do liberty training just for fun. Scratching her udder has become the best possible reward. She will do anything for it. I give her a treat, which she quickly grabs, then immediately positions herself for an udder scratch. She would do cartwheels for them if she could. 

I admit, I was one of those people who never thought of scratching there. But now that she knows these human hands are good for something, she follows me around like a puppy begging for scratches. So much for being aloof towards people.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

mmshiro said:


> Yeah, but the challenge is to pick it up on the first try, from an area equal to the palm of your hand, rather than shuffling it around with your lips to (a) find where it is located, (b) explore it, and finally (c) grab a hold of it. It's usually the "locating" phase when the candy gets pushed off the hand if I stick to the "flat hand only" technique.


Ever try feeding a Tic-tac to horses? Kodak doesn't care for them (it took her some time to accept "normal" horse treats), but Harley picks them out of my hands with his lips, then proceeds to place them between his front teeth to crush them, and suck on them all at once. Talk about surgical precision!


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## george the mule (Dec 7, 2014)

Acadianartist said:


> But now that she knows these human hands are good for something, she follows me around like a puppy begging for scratches. So much for being aloof towards people.


I tell George: "Monkey-fingers." 

IMO, a good scratch counts as Quality Time with your animal, and is a bonding exercise. Sometimes they will "groom" you back if you let them.


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## elkdog (Nov 28, 2016)

"You can pee on an electric fence and it won't shock you."

WRONG!!!!


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

elkdog said:


> "You can pee on an electric fence and it won't shock you."
> 
> WRONG!!!!


You'd have to interval-pee, and time it carefully...


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

elkdog said:


> "You can pee on an electric fence and it won't shock you."
> 
> WRONG!!!!



Being female makes it rather difficult to try that one but my cousin told me if I touched the fence with a timothy stalk it wouldn't shock me. He lied!


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> It's remarkable how many people do not realize how much there horse would like the inside of his/her ears scratched...


I was one of them. Bandit isn't fond of having his ears touched, so why would I stick a finger in them? But a week or so ago, the bugs were bad and I thought "What the heck!" Put my finger in. He froze. For about 5 seconds. Then he started rubbing his head a little. Then the light bulb went on and it was all I could do to keep my hand steady as he rubbed his inner ear against my finger.

Stopped, and then he turned around and put his other ear next to my hand. Well, that didn't seem too subtle! So...OK. He once again rubbed his ear against my finger, hard, then looked at me as if to say, "_You humans can do that? And you didn't TELL me? Sheesh! Get with the program, Little Monkey!_"

One problem with being self-taught is that you don't find advice about things like that in many books or videos about equitation! I mean, how many YouTube videos are there on proper ear-rubbing techniques? And it sure wasn't mentioned in the Cavalry manual...:evil:...and if truth be told, the few times I took lessons, no one suggested it either! "_Get with the program, Little Monkey!_"


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

PS: It is one of the nice things about HF. Threads like this can give those, "_You mean I'm not the only one?_" moments, or better, "_You mean horses don't explode if you do XXX? They LIKE it?_" moments! Gotta buy me some mints...

:thumbsup:​


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## livelovelaughride (Sep 13, 2011)

A shoulder fore in ridden in two tracks !


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

That I would regret purchasing a 14.2 green broke mare for mountain riding.


Wrong. That little mare was handy, sure-footed, could jump downed limbs like a deer, scramble up steep slopes and across shale slides like a mountain goat, turn around on a trail 8"wide, and was fresher at the end of a long day than most of the big horses. Plus she was really easy to get on, and could slither under branches without getting me whacked in the face. Win-Win!


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## ChestnutPony4Life (Dec 30, 2017)

To get into half seat with a closed hip angle on a very forward and pushy mare, on the way to a solid fence that she'd already refused twice. I was twelve... Broken ribs hurt.....


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

bsms said:


> PS: It is one of the nice things about HF. Threads like this can give those, "_You mean I'm not the only one?_" moments, or better, "_You mean horses don't explode if you do XXX? They LIKE it?_" moments! Gotta buy me some mints...
> 
> :thumbsup:​


Feel free to start a new thread "Things your horse trained you to do for it" and see if anything else seems like a good idea. For example, it bothers me to see a horse with crusties or discharge in their eyes - haven't met a single one that didn't ultimately let me poke a finger right "there" and scratch it clean.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Worst advice?

Never, ever, ever grab your saddle to hang on under any circumstances...... Ouch (Arthritis in my neck now)

This one was about a cow: If you stand in the gait, she can't get by............ Ouch (Still got scars)

Never, ever, ever do an emergency dismount from a bolting horse.............. Ouch (I wish I had not landed on my tail bone....... )


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Celeste said:


> This one was about a cow: If you stand in the gait, she can't get by..........


Or sheep if you're smaller - just pictured my then 5yo sister doing a really impressive somersault over the sheep we were trying to catch when my dad told her to stand in the gateway....


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

mmshiro said:


> Feel free to start a new thread "Things your horse trained you to do for it" and see if anything else seems like a good idea. For example, it bothers me to see a horse with crusties or discharge in their eyes - haven't met a single one that didn't ultimately let me poke a finger right "there" and scratch it clean.


Gunna do!


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

loosie said:


> Gunna do!


Then post a link here so we can find it.


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## GMA100 (Apr 8, 2016)

I can’t think of much bad riding advice besides pulling the reins for literally everything you want the horse to do. Almost everything I knew about horses was from reading or watching experience horse people, so while I messsed up a LOT because I was self taught, I wasn’t given a whole lot of bad advice. 

But prolly the worst advice I was given was if a horse wouldn’t respect you tie his nose to his tail till it gave in. How that works? I have NO idea! I didn’t try it out! I didn’t like my horses to walk around with a broken look like that persons. I like a little bit of spunk!!!


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

To ride in a two point, get your butt WAY up out of the saddle. Shorten your reins right up and park them half-way up your horse's neck. Stay rigidly like that the entire time and jump your whole course like that, essentially in jockey position. Give a crest release over the jump, which in this case means pitching yourself even further forward somehow, and throwing your hands even farther up the neck despite the fact that they're a foot and a half farther up already. Aim to punch him in the ears or something, I guess. Somehow get your horse around and over the jumps like this, and manage to stay on.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

loosie said:


> And yeah, I got careers advice to the tune of its not realistic to want a horsey shmorsey job - horses only cost you money, you can't make a living working with them. Hence it took me many years of drifting thru crap jobs I hated before I took a horsey shmorsey career seriously.


I know a good one though. :rofl: How do you make a million dollars with horses? - Start with two million!




Kalraii said:


> *"You don't want to compete? My goodness, don't even THINK about owning a horse. It really isn't worth owning a horse unless you compete."*


:rofl: I refer all to this recently deceased personage, who had a wonderful life with horses and lived to the age of 94:

https://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding/alternative-german-rider-1922-2016-3-a-793527/













mmshiro said:


> The only thing missing from this advice would be to spell it like so: "_because they are made to *His* design_"!


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:




knightrider said:


> My worst advice was told to me by a 4-H leader, "Throw your heart over the fence and your horse will follow."  If you are riding stubborn ponies, this is very bad advice. I threw my heart over the fence, and then I went over the fence . . . without the pony. Many times. You may believe with your heart and soul that the pony is going to jump, but man, that pony has other ideas.


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

AnitaAnne said:


> Don't give a horse treats, that will spoil them and they won't work.



Ask'em if this applies to husbands as well! :rofl:


What balderdash...poppycock...nincompoopery...big vacuum in the cerebrum...


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

loosie said:


> Bad advice?? But it doesn't matter that you were run down - Monty Roberts did it, repeatedly, despite being run down every time! So it must be good advice??
> 
> I was given the book 'the man who listens to horses' before I'd otherwise heard of the bloke. His description of doing things like this had me think he was... a bit of a goose. And had me very perplexed when I learned how wonderful so many people thought he was...



inkunicorn::blueunicorn: 

And speaking of "the _men _who listen to horses" - yeah right. That's the dominant culture for you. What would women know! And how many of those are publicly put on undeserved pedestals for their horsepersonship?

I have the same low opinion of all that Banjo Paterson stuff, which is so paradoxically beloved of many horse riders. _Read_ the poem. Not only are all the men riding and the women in their proper places as helpmates, but look at this:

_And he ran them single-handed till their sides were white with foam; 
__He followed like a bloodhound on their track, 
__Till they halted,* cowed and beaten*; then he turned their heads for home, 
__And alone and unassisted brought them back. _
_But his hardy mountain pony he could scarcely raise a trot, _
_*He was blood from hip to shoulder from the spur. *_

Yeah, let's all celebrate that. Not. I think it's a truckload of old crap myself. And go on, hate me, I don't care!  I always thought this was nauseating in so many ways, like lots of these "legends".


:wave: :winetime: :evil: :evil: :evil:


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## lostastirrup (Jan 6, 2015)

Foxhunter said:


> Always feed a horse a treat from the palm of your hand.
> 
> I found this problematic with the little children, anything would roll off their hand so as he treat was nearly always a carrot I would have them hold the carrot in their first. The horses were always very gentle taking small bites and near the end feeling for little fingers.



This was how I always fed carrots. The horses I grew up on got used to sharing a carrot with me as a break. We had sweet sweet Alaska carrots, totally delicious. I miss them but thinking about them, me and whichever backyard creature that had been designated "steed" would alternate carrot crunching back and forth. 

My current horse was hilarious the first time he got a carrot. I held it in my fist to let him take bites and he sucked it up and held it in his mouth for five minutes. He didn't know what to do with it. Just stood there looking perplexed and needing help. Eventually he spit it out and I dusted it off and broke it up for him. Still one of the funnier expressions I've seen on a horse.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *LoriF* View Post 
_Mine love cool ranch doritos but can't stand cheese nips crackers. Cheese nips make them gag. They'll stand there with their heads hanging, mouth wide open trying to get them to fall out. It's pretty funny actually. *Kind of like putting tape on a cats paws. * I know, I'm mean._



tinyliny said:


> tape on a cat's paw!!!! oh, girl . . . . you make a me laugh!!!!!


 What about tying a thick long sock around the waist of a cat, just in front of its pelvis? It doesn't hurt the cat, apart from its dignity, but is quite amusing. Especially when the cat has just done something it shouldn't have. 


Like hiding behind a door and then jumping face-height as you pass! :rofl:


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *elkdog* View Post 
_"You can pee on an electric fence and it won't shock you."

WRONG!!!!_



mmshiro said:


> You'd have to interval-pee, and time it carefully...


:rofl: Your fence better be set to "night" mode. Anyone who can actually do this, please contact the Guinness Book of World Records... and your local friendly urologist...


On a related and (to me, because I'm evil, and getting more evil the older I get :evil amusing note, many moons ago a patron of the Oktoberfest going home decided to pee down the side of one of Munich's bridges over the electric railway line, aiming for the train track's overhead electric cables, because that's soooooo funny! Toast. Darwin Award, before those awards came into being. Man did we need those awards...


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Finishing with the stereo equine ear scratch. It's a real problem to have less hands than animals sometimes:


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Celeste said:


> Then post a link here so we can find it.


In the horse talk subforums too. ;-)


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Love that cartoon sue!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

SueC said:


> I have the same low opinion of all that Banjo Paterson stuff,


GASP!! Sacrelige!![TIC] I don't get upset about the 'sexism' as that was just a product of the times. Spose you could forgive the 'nice' bits in TMFSR for the same reason. I did get irritated though at feminists a few years back protesting that the event they hold yearly at Mansfield should be called 'The Person From Snowy River'. 

I used to love that poem - used to be able to recite the whole thing off by heart, can still remember most - but yes I always mumbled the bits 'cowed & beaten' and 'hardy mountain pony he could scarcely raise a trot' and cringed at 'he was blood from hip to shoulder from the spur'. 

I love & used to know by heart Clancy of The Overflow' too, but my favourite Banjo poems are A Dog's Mistake' and 'For Sale A Mountain Station' and... what's the name of the one that was an argument in verse between he & Lawson... starts "So you're back from up the country Mr Lawson, where you went And you're cursing all that business with a bitter discontent..."



> nauseating in so many ways, like lots of these legends.


Spose you're going to spew sacrelige against Ned now... 

...sorry for so much ot mm!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

SueC said:


> *Kind of like putting tape on a cats paws. * I know, I'm mean.[/I] done something it shouldn't have.


Which reminds me of seeing many a horse wearing boots for the first time. But funniest thing I saw was a young horse frighten himself when he picked up my jumper from a fence post & it flapped... & he bolted & bucked in terror for minutes with it flapping on his neck & back because he didn't think to let go of it! :rofl:


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Sue your Darwin awards pic reminds me, did you know, most people that get bitten by freshwater crocs are trying to get the fish hooks out if their mouth?? 

Once went on a camping trip & a bunch of us were literally crying & :rofl: ... watching one mate in terror with a turtle stuck to his face... after he tried to bite thru the fishing line it got hooked on!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Dear @*loosie* , Messieurs Paterson and Kelly are dead. Not so with Mr Scomophobe PM and some of our unfortunate parliamentarians...


Love the turtle story... :rofl:


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

loosie said:


> I don't get upset about the 'sexism' as that was just a product of the times. Spose you could forgive the 'nice' bits in TMFSR for the same reason.



People make that argument, and I don't buy it. Racism was also a product of the times in MLK's America, and in many other places and times, but not everyone was a posterior orifice to others, or thought themselves more equal than other people, based on whatever differences, be they gender, ethnic background, sexuality, etc. There always has been a minority of people in any society who haven't taken advantage of others just because their social mainstream endorsed that. You can go back thousands of years and see that, in many different societies. It's just that the _majority_ seem to be lemmings, and/or like having an excuse to take advantage of other people for their own gain. Independent critical thinking, integrity, empathy and a backbone have always been available to those who would avail themselves of them. MLK wrote a really interesting book about this called _Strength to Love_, which explodes a lot of those myths about "products of the times" - you can't unhook personal responsibility for behaviour just because other people might be setting bad examples and saying it's OK. Just look at Australia today... and the kind of things the mainstream is turning a blind eye to. In twenty years, will people say, "Oh, locking young refugee children up in prison was just a product of the times?" You're living in those times. You tell me!


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I digress, but I looked up the poem. I’m not sure I ever read it before, although I love the movie. I liked it. I see why you don’t @SueC, but I did. 

On the same note there is a song called “End of an Age” and I love it too. 

As far as bad advice goes, I’m sure I’ve heard some that is general, but none really stand out in my head. Sometimes I get crazy over bad advice, but I think it wouldn’t be bad if it were a different situation. People may advise for something different, but they don’t feel the horse or understand why the rider is doing what they are doing. I think as far as bad advice goes, the best advice is to only do what speaks to you. Listen to it all, but don’t do it all.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I like Banjo Paterson's poems. Not all, but I bought a book of them and enjoyed quite a few. Not sure things written in the 1890s should be judged by 2018 standards. I'm currently reading a book about Grant and Sherman and battles at places like Shiloh. The sheer amount of DEATH and suffering they saw again and again is impossible for me to imagine. They both had multiple horses shot out from under them, and both had aides whose heads were removed by cannonballs while standing next to them. At Shiloh, Sherman had three horses killed underneath him and was himself hit twice.

IIRC, one of Paterson's poems involved a guy coming across an old horse for sale cheap, and recognizing it as a horse he had ridden many miles when both were younger. The man buys the horse and puts him to pasture. And even in the Snowy River poem, it goes:

But his hardy mountain pony he could scarcely raise a trot, 
He was blood from hip to shoulder from the spur; 
But his pluck was still undaunted, and his courage fiery hot, 
For never yet was mountain horse a cur.​ 
Kind of reminds me of Bandit. I don't own spurs nor feel a need for them. But Bandit has a mental toughness my other horses have lacked. Mia was strong-willed, proud and sensitive. Bandit is not as strong-willed, and I wouldn't call him proud or sensitive. But he's tough. Some one could push him very hard, whip and spur him, and at the end Bandit would still be very much his own horse - 'his pluck still undaunted'. He doesn't need it, but he wouldn't buckle under it either.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

SueC said:


> ...you can't unhook personal responsibility for behaviour just because other people might be setting bad examples and saying it's OK...


If you were raised in Alabama in 1830, how opposed to slavery would you have been? Well, maybe. There certainly WERE abolitionists and some probably were raised in Alabama in the early 1800s. But we swim in a culture, and the culture we swim in affects our perceptions.

We currently swim in a culture too, and future generations may judge us very harshly for things we unthinkingly accept now. I try to avoid judging anyone who lived 150 years ago for things they accepted without question, and hope those living 150 years from now will extend the same courtesy to me.

I've never felt a need to spur a horse onward while chasing a wild herd, but my next meal has never depended on my catching a wild herd of horses. When I look at what wealthy people will do to their horses to win a blue ribbon, I don't feel too judgmental about those who pushed their horses brutally while living on the edge of starvation themselves.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

There's always culture and subcultures, and always personal choice. I don't think I'd have been for slavery, because I don't just swallow the things my current culture presents to me as acceptable either. I was surrounded by people who bullied others based on difference, in my family and in the surrounding culture, particularly in Australia, and that doesn't mean I ever joined in, and not before when I was European either, and not "other" myself by cultural definition. And I don't think I'm some sort of paragon of virtue; I just really dislike it when people, or animals, get hurt, or get treated unjustly.

Judgement is one extreme, and making excuses is another. They say you've not really been tested ethically until you've got some skin in the game, and you have to make decisions that are to your own personal disadvantage - such as when you are starving, or when you are being ostracised, or when you're being nailed to a cross actually. It's all very well making ethically good decisions when they align themselves with your own interests, but watch what happens when the shoe is on the other foot.

So racism - well, there were always people who weren't. Ditto sexism. It's really interesting reading Charles Dickens' _Great Expectations_ and looking at the way he thought and felt as a human being within the context of his own culture. He was way ahead. Some of the Greek philosophers from thousands of years ago were too. You don't have to let yourself be anaesthetised by your culture, or your family - you can always use your brain and your compassion to evaluate things independently, which is exactly what the people I've been talking about have been doing throughout history.


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## Spanish Rider (May 1, 2014)

Worst advice? "If you can walk, then you can't have broken anything."


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

bsms said:


> I like Banjo Paterson's poems. Not all, but I bought a book of them and enjoyed quite a few. Not sure things written in the 1890s should be judged by 2018 standards.



So judge them by the Sermon on the Mount. How's that? That set a pretty high standard way before the 1890s. The thing is, it's all so predictable... Whatever you believe or don't, it's so uncanny how the aspects of human nature Jesus took to task really haven't changed. The ultimate irony to me has always been how many people turned around and paid lip service to those things and aligned themselves as somehow connected to that philosophy, when they were not.


And he wasn't the first one to point these things out either. The Buddha was pretty lucid as well, lots of philosophers were, probably lots of peasantry too whose lives and views were not recorded.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

loosie said:


> Which reminds me of seeing many a horse wearing boots for the first time. But funniest thing I saw was a young horse frighten himself when he picked up my jumper from a fence post & it flapped... & he bolted & bucked in terror for minutes with it flapping on his neck & back because he didn't think to let go of it! :rofl:



A horse in 'flight mode' will often clamp his jaws, so if he was truly scared, he couldn't have dropped it if he'd wanted to.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^yeah appreciate that silver, but it was still pretty funny - I was alerted to the spectacle by his farts!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

And yes, I absolutely appreciate your argument Sue, and agree with it... to a very large point. 

But can you rationally say, if you were brought up in a totally different culture(many, even these days where people aren't taught rational thinking & ethics, but to 'follow the rules', have blind faith, etc), you would have the same morals & ethics you do now? If you don't have the knowledge of choice & alternative... kind of like blaming those young kids who grow up(brainwashed before they're old enough to think) in an army with a kalishnikov shoved into their hands, for not knowing better. Culture & perception do have a lot of effect. I think to a large degree we *learn* our morals, we aren't born with them, and if there is no one to teach you better ones...


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

Spanish Rider said:


> Worst advice? "If you can walk, then you can't have broken anything."


Oh, that's my rule of thumb: If it hurts, check its range of motion. If it moves, tape it up and get back on the horse. If it doesn't, hit the Emergency Room.


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## Captain Evil (Apr 18, 2012)

Perhaps the worst advice I know about I gave... albeit unwittingly. My young horse-loving sister and I were passengers in a car driven by a friend of my Mom's, who we really didn't know at all. We came upon a woman leading an obviously young and skittish horse down the side of the road. She was doing okay, but clearly having a bit of a struggle keeping the young horse from dancing all over her and the road. 

The driver said, "Should I stop the car?" and without ever imagining that anyone would ever do this, I said, "Blow the horn so she knows we are here." 

And our driver did. Never in my wildest thought did I think she would do it! I mean, nobody would, right? Wrong. 

And while nobody got hurt, it was not pretty.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

Get a bigger bit, that'll stop him better.

(OR MAKE HIM STAND STRAIGHT UP)



When he rears, make him back up...

(About that standing straight up thang...)



When he rears up, or tries to, beat his @#* the reins...

(And completely lose his trust for another year? Yeah nah, how 'bout no?)



When he bolts, make him run till he's sick of running...

(Yeah nah mate. He will run for two hours in the summer heat. He'll drop of a heart attack before he decides he doesn't have go Must Go Faster).


(When he's emotionally spun out and over stimulated at a rodeo in July and I'm chillin' with him, bringing him down a notch as I say)
Old Roper Walking by LEADING HIS HORSE: By gawd, you ortabe ridin that #*$# horse...

(Me, knowing the rodeo clowns are about to blow up a chicken in the arena)
Yeah nah mate. We're good. Preciate the bad advice doh...


If you get bucked off, get right back on.

Okay - maybe. But there are times you realllly, really, need to not do that. Like, if you're addled and have a concussion.



Don't get off if they're acting off, that gives them what they want.

Well, no. If they're being a ****** because they want you out of the saddle, right. But if they're wanting to simply RUN back to the barn, getting out of the saddle, rather than fighting them and getting hurt, and leading them home at a leisurely pace, or a really hard working pace (I find obstacles to have to go around and up and down, etc) doesn't give them what they want. 



Don't use snacks (Like, ever, for any reason) because then you don't have a partner...

Well. It works for my husband. 22 years married this weekend. It's kept him on his best behavior. 

It works for my dogs...

It's worked for every. single. horse. I've had that came to us emotionally wasted. The trick is to use them when you need them, and as you build a rapport and gain trust, you gradually back off on who gets treats for what. Trigger doesn't get treats for coming to me in the pasture or holding still while I get in the saddle any more. He gets them for not killing me. His reward for every day normal stuff? He gets lots of affection and sweet talk. I also know where all the scratchy spots are. I can make him, and every horse we have, absolutely curl up and fall over if I want them to. LOL


Get rid of that flank strap. Unless you're roping, you don't need it. (Western saddle specific)

Not true. A western saddle is designed to work with a flank strap. That flank strap is there to keep the saddle from pitching up and forward if you're going down a steep incline, roping cattle, etc. If you're riding in a controlled environment, on level ground, say in a nice arena, and not roughing it or working cattle, then nah, you can get by without one. But for what we do? You better be rigged up right. Also, for horses in regions where western tack is common, you better get them used to it anyway - just because YOU don't ride with one, doesn't mean the next person won't. All our horses are perfectly comfortable with a flank cinch.



JERK THAT CINCH TIGHT! You can't get it too tight! Pull the flank strap so tight they fart! You can't get it too tight.

Dude. No. Just... go away. No wait... Here... let me throw you down, and snap that belt around your waist about five holes too tight without warning... how dat be? No? That's what I thought - moron.



I.. think that's it.

Also, no, Trigger hasn't killed me. We're still learning. Someday, we'll meet in the middle. I rode him at a friend's rodeo in the grand entry - and he thought he was going to MUST GO FASTER the second we were in the ally. He looked like a fire-breathing barrel horse, we crabstepped and high step trotted all the way around the arena, but we did not bolt. He was spun out, watching EVERYTHING, every event all big eyed and high headed, super focused and excited.... like a 4 year old on Redbull. Convinced more than ever he's a blown up Black Rodeo Relay horse.

He's still my buddy though. M'boi. Anyone else (Had a barrel racer friend get on him last weekend and Ooohhh my God... it was like a switch was flipped... he was Trigger Two Years Ago, all over again, until she got off him and I took over again) gets on him, he loses his mind and thinks it's time to bolt anywhere, everywhere, or bounce up on the front end if he's denied a bolt.


P.S... we're galloping now, he and I... but always away from the trailer. We joined the 'Tombstone revenge posee' a couple of weekends ago - 8 teenaged rodeo kids, charging around on 4000 acres and up feed truck roads, through big,deep creeks, up steep creek banks, and some Man from Snowy River Ride stuff. A good time was had by all, and I let off on the brakes, threw out the training wheels and We Go! It was great. 

I needed a beer and a smoke later, but overall, he and I both held it together the entire afternoon/evening.

Good times.

And... Hey ya'll!


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

Tangental advice:

You need to be in church more (From my husband who goes everytime the doors are open)

Me: A day spent on Trigger is a day spend in prayer. 





Husband: Doctor wants me to exercise more.

Me: Ride with us more.

Husband: Doctor wants me to do some sort of exercise that gets my heart rate up.

Me: Clearly we're putting you on the wrong horse.... Ooohhh Triggeerrrr! C'mere boy!




Advice that was sound and ignored:


My horses, all of them, have a special sort of hate for a handful of people. I liked those people, at first, but over the three years we've had horses, things have changed. They could hide what they were from me for a while, but not from my horses, apparently.

Each and ever person that any of my horses have acted aggressive toward turned out to be total jackwagons of the worst sort. Of all our horses, Old Superman is the most attuned to people, and he will not tolerate bullying or unwarranted aggression. He'll fight you, as in trash you.

I wish I'd listened to my horses more when it came to people they didn't like.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

OH Oh! TWO DAYS AGO - an acquaintance said I need to ride Trigger in a small ring, thin mouth piece twisted snaffle, and then SORE HIS MOUTH UP with it by tying his head down and leaving him IN IT FOR 24+ hours. I ride him in a short shanked Argentine life saver right now, and we get along just fine. But she thought he needed bigger brakes, like... Brembo brakes... rather than the whole do circles until we calm down thing.

THE HECK?

How about a hard pass? A heck NO? Seriously?

Sure, the circles are annoying, I don't like it either, but I will not lose his trust again, not because of intentional pain inflicted on him. No. Just... stop.

I'll keep working him through water/creeks, deep sandy soil, thick trees and brush so he's forced to slow down. I'll keep sliding off him and talking to him and rubbing his forehead until he 'comes back to me'... as long as it takes... to get him to learn he doesn't have to run till we drop anymore. That life is long gone, I'm having to reprogram him, and I have a lot of years left, so does he - we hope. We're in no hurry to get anywhere or do anything. We have all the time we need.

Soring his mouth up is a hard NO.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

@AkotaGhosthorse All that I have seen happen when people jerk on a twisted wire bit on a runaway horse is that the horse changes from running to bucking. I saw one horse almost fall on her rider due to that same jerk that harsh bit philosophy.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

The first thing that comes to mind as bad advise goes is backing a horse as soon as you get on or backing a horse rapidly and aggressively as a form of punishment whether it be in the saddle or on a lead. I see so many people tell others to do so and see a lot of people do it and it makes me cringe.


Horses who are tight when you first get on will flip over backwards. I've seen it and I've admittedly done it to myself.


Punishing a stallion for screaming by yanking on the chain to back him as a punishment creates a stallion who will scream then start flying backwards knowing whats coming. I worked for a trainer who accidently killed a horse from doing so. Horse flew backwards knowing what was coming, feet tangled up, flipped over backwards and hit his head on a brick wall killing him. Of course it was a one time deal and it won't happen to every horse but it can create an issue of the horse running backwards every time it thinks hes about to get in trouble.











tinyliny said:


> It's remarkable how many people do not realize how much there horse would like the inside of his/her ears scratched. Admittedly, some horses do not like this, but many do! when I show them, the owners are like, "Wow! I never even thought of that". Same with the mare enjoying being cleaned /scratched between her teats. So many mare owners don't even realize that their mare needs to be cleaned there, and how pleasurable it is for her to be scratched there. I show them and they are surprised. It never even occurred to them.



Ive heard of some trainers and clinicians some what discouraging making friends with a horse by scratching on their horses. I can understand at what they are trying to prevent but I scratch on all mine, they all have their spots!


The little filly I bought last spring was pretty ouchy. She'd just assume tip an ear blow snot and paw you in the head than have you touch her. I am of the belief that a lot of it was bluff. As if someone played into it rather than ignored it creating an issue of it. However catching her in 12 x 24 pen was a challenge but soon after she discovered I'd pull the ticks she was covered with off and scratch the itchy sores left behind, she'd come up to me on her own politely showing me her neck where she loved to be scratched. 

Even after me being gone for the last three weeks I had expected her to revert some to her old ways yet yesterday she was the first to the gate and stuck her head in her halter. She allowed me to pet her on the forehead which before result in her buckling her legs and crouching like a cat about to attack to avoid.


My geldings like having their butt cheeks scratched which I'm sure looks quite odd to the untrained eye of passerbys! LOL


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

AtokaGhosthorse said:


> OH Oh! TWO DAYS AGO - an acquaintance said I need to ride Trigger in a small ring, thin mouth piece twisted snaffle, and then SORE HIS MOUTH UP with it by tying his head down and leaving him IN IT FOR 24+ hours.


Hope you offered to practice the technique on them??!:evil:


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

loosie said:


> And yes, I absolutely appreciate your argument Sue, and agree with it... to a very large point.
> 
> But can you rationally say, if you were brought up in a totally different culture(many, even these days where people aren't taught rational thinking & ethics, but to 'follow the rules', have blind faith, etc), you would have the same morals & ethics you do now?


That would be an absurd claim, and it isn't one I made, it's just a caricature of my position. We are all made up of the sum total of our experiences. But, there is an element of choice, and there always has been, over what experiences you are going to have; and there have always been minority positions.

I've nothing to add now, except a song.


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## Spanish Rider (May 1, 2014)

@mmshiro , unfortunately, being able to walk and maintaining a normal range of motion may not account for internal bleeding! Be careful.


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## necryptonix (Aug 30, 2018)

Worst Advice from the last year:

*1.* "That horse is faking, just keep working her and working her. Eventually she'll start acting right." -- This from a riding instructor while I was riding a 6yr old OTTB mare that had gotten a bucking problem. Turned out she had a grade 2 suspensory injury that never healed right, which is why she was objecting to the work. When my instructor first told me to ride her it was no big deal, instructor put me on her since they joke I have velcro on my [email protected]@. The horse kept bucking, not as much since she couldn't throw me off, but kept the problem up. I noticed it was strange though that she seemed to have a good work ethic over all, and had been training very, very well until the last 6 months or so. 

Took her to the barn managers on a whim (after instructor had insisted to other riders NOT to take her to the barn managers) and they had the vet ultrasound her -- voila, found the injury that was the cause of the trouble. She was given rehab time, and my instructor was LIVID with me. She somehow still seemed convinced that the horse was faking it, and berated me for going "over her head" by getting the horse looked at. Mind you, she doesn't own the horse, the barn does. I promptly dumped her for a different instructor in the same barn. Moral of the story, trust your instincts. Care of the horse is more important than your competitive goals. Always.

2. "Just keep spurring him, don't stop!" This from a different trainer who was working with me on my own 3yr old OTTB gelding. He was getting back in shape after a hind leg soft tissue injury. For this reason, he was weaker on one side than the other and found cantering in that direction difficult. He's also notoriously lazy, but he'll go if you tell him. Well he had given me about 4 good strides in the canter on his weak side, which for him is practically a miracle. I was satisfied, he had already been working for quite a while and was exhausted, and I started cooling him out. Trainer insisted I go back and ask for the canter depart again, since he didn't do a full circle. I objected, but eventually did as I was told. 

The fact of the matter was that my horse was just too tired and weak to do it again. When my legs weren't enough, my trainer took off her spurs and put them on me to reinforce my leg and keep asking. So I tried again, no response. She said to start outright kicking with the spurs. He promptly began bucking. He didn't throw me, but once he calmed down I brought him to a stop. I showed her that even just so much as touching him with the spur made him buck (from a standstill!), so his brain was just too fried to continue. He was tired and frustrated and we needed to stop. Trainer then insisted that I just wasn't good enough and was going easy on him because I was scared. I told her if that's the case, then she can try and get on him and see if she can do it, because I would love to learn what I was doing wrong. She refused to get on him, because that "wasnt her job" even though...as my trainer who had been riding him....it was her job. Finally I cooled him out and dismounted, and she told me that I had just "ruined" him and that he would never canter on that side again without bucking. Cue my ride a week later, without the trainer (who I ended up firing), where my horse cantered off on his difficult lead the first time I asked, quiet as can be, and was able to hold it for multiple circles since he wasn't exhausted. He acted the perfect lesson pony. Funny how that works. 

Moral of the story is to trust your knowledge of your horse. You know your horse, and you have to advocate for them. Don't let somebody walk all over you and make you feel bad for making a decision that you know is best for your horse. Trust your gut.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

loosie said:


> Hope you offered to practice the technique on them??!:evil:


Oh man. I just... I don't even. I just politely said I'll keep it in mind. Meaning: No. But you're a nice kid. No.


Also bad advice... no.

Not advice. Just... whaattt?

Had quite a few brash young men eager to lay the spurs to Oops and 'buck her out' to 'break' her.

Oops has had 4? 5 rides on her, no buck. Y'know why? Because we're taking the 'teach her' approach. She needs to be taught. Not 'broken'. But I still get a lot of men claiming she needs a good 'breaking'.

Yeah. Nah mate. We're good. She's learning her lessons just fine, she's seemed eager to learn and accepting, except for a few days where she didn't want to be bothered... but we're all getting along. She's done well, and we get a lot of compliments on her personality and willingness.... from older horse and cow folks.

So.

Here's MY advice:

First and foremost: Learn bad advice from good advice, and understand that everyone has advice.

Leave your ego somewhere well away from horses. They do. not. care. about your pride or ego. It has no place around horses. 

Learn to be quiet. Not just verbally, but in your body language, and by that, I mean even the most subtle cues. Because if you're high octane, a horse will be. If you're anxious and scared or fearful, so too will they.

Because horses don't contextualize (I learned THAT here and it changed everything.)

And they will know it, no matter how hard you try to hide it.

Learn to speak their language. That means spending a LOT of time in the company of horses, asking nothing of them. Just be around them, observe, learn what different things mean (Hoof stomp - impatience or flies? Tail slap... annoyance or... yes. Flies? That big, long, bone-relaxing sigh... folks that means all good things... and it's contagious.

Quietly grooming your horse is better than beer after a stressful day, and they'll agree... and it helps you get to know them, and them you like nothing else.

Trust your horse... but that's a two way street. Help them trust you... by...

Being fair, being honest, being immediate, and not being brutal when discipline is require - and and it will be. Because that's what horses do - they evolved to constantly jockey for power within a band or a herd, and you as part of that herd, will be challenged at some point. Know it when it happens, be fair and consistent with your response.

Learn where those scratchy spots are. I can make all but one of our horses curl up in delight because I know what places to scratch.

Turning their butt to you is not ALWAYS a threat or disrespect - sometimes they just want a good butt scratching. Which brings me back to learning to speak their language. Know a threat or disrespect from trust and conversation or requests.

I could go on and on, but I have dinner to eat.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

Celeste said:


> @AkotaGhosthorse All that I have seen happen when people jerk on a twisted wire bit on a runaway horse is that the horse changes from running to bucking. I saw one horse almost fall on her rider due to that same jerk that harsh bit philosophy.


Yeah, we have one slow twist snaffle bit - but it's a bit too thin for my liking. It's not seen the mouth of a horse in two years. There are other ways to get what you want without tearing up their mouth and intentionally inflicting pain. I'd prefer to figure those ways out and resort to pain only when absolutely neessary (A smack with a crop or a lunge whip to get them to back away from the gate or the trough while I feed is ok. I've backhanded Oops smartly on the nose for straight up biting me on the forearm trying to 'drive me'. Tearing up a mouth or soring them is an absolute no).



COWCHICK77 said:


> The first thing that comes to mind as bad advise goes is backing a horse as soon as you get on or backing a horse rapidly and aggressively as a form of punishment whether it be in the saddle or on a lead. I see so many people tell others to do so and see a lot of people do it and it makes me cringe.
> 
> 
> Horses who are tight when you first get on will flip over backwards. I've seen it and I've admittedly done it to myself.
> ...



We got that advise for Superman... but if you try that, he'll back up for a million miles. In fact, my son tried that last October on a trip to put out deer corn. Superman wouldn't go forward, but he'd go backwards... sooooo Son said, well. Okay then. They rode the trail backwards for about 100 yards before the Old Man figured out he might want to turn around and behave. THAT was funny stuff.

I also have gotten the old Saw on his Mouth at the Same Time advice. 

He'll stand straight up if you try that on him and I've seen it, and it scared me because he looked about two inches away, or closer, to breaking that axis where he'll go over backwards. 


I've had people tell us to shank our horses too if they call out to others... why? Okay, I get that it's a sign of an insecure horse, or one trying to call out a horse they want to challenge, but shank them? Seriously? We don't have stallions, but for our geldings, fillies and mares, we always remind them who they're with, politely... by talking to them and refocusing their attention. Trigger used to be the WORST and he rarely does it now. (Sarge... OTOH... needs work. So big... and so insecure, but also thinks he's a stallion, but he's not, so we have to know which it is - challenge or insecurity... and handle it accordingly. Sheesh, dude).


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

AtokaGhosthorse said:


> Oops has had 4? 5 rides on her, no buck. Y'know why? Because we're taking the 'teach her' approach.


Which reminds me of another bad advice - paid good money to a (coughs) 'pro' saddle fitter when my young boy had had about 20 rides on him without a trace of a buck. She put the saddle on that she thought fit, put him on a lunge & shooed him off.... he bucked like a rodeo stud! She told me he was just being ****y because he was green, that it wasn't anything to do with the saddle. "Trust me, I know young horses, I'm a trainer too" ...Well IMO that's one way to... depromote your business!

And I had a vet, a bodyworker & a trainer out to my kid's pony when he was new to me(& had a tent shaped rump & very imbalanced hooves), to assess what I thought was pain. Was told by all he was just a '****y pony' & to ignore it, there was nothing wrong with him aside from his 'attitude'.

Then the second bodyworker that saw him(one I didn't believe in because she did chiro & even more 'fluffy' cranio-sacral, only humouring a friend that got her out) fixed him - changed his whole bodyshape along with his attitude!


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

COWCHICK77 said:


> The first thing that comes to mind as bad advise goes is backing a horse as soon as you get on or backing a horse rapidly and aggressively as a form of punishment whether it be in the saddle or on a lead. I see so many people tell others to do so and see a lot of people do it and it makes me cringe.


Yes!! I think my horse must have had this done to her before I got her, as she has (had?) this awful habit whenever we got in a tricky situation. It has gotten much better as we've ridden more miles together, but it does still happen and I hate it.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Worst advice bar none - tie the horse up by the hind leg to teach him to tether out to graze. I was about 10 years old when some idjit cowboy told me this, even then I knew better


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