# "drooping" neck on P.R.E.



## PranaHorse (Oct 17, 2014)

Hello All,
Beginners questions regarding a P.R.E. ( Espanola)
I am speaking, in my not so great spanish, to others here about their P.R.E.s and am wondering what anyone thinks about the prevalence of a droopy neck. Sorry, to describe better:
The top ridge of the neck, where the mane grows from.
Some of them have such large neck structure, and in some it seems the top ridge begins to droop over, almost like it is too heavy to stay completely upright.
How normal is this?
Is it genetic, and therefor a problem?
Is it simply age?
I am getting info here, but again, my spanish is lacking, and I thought I'd turn to some of you.
I'm here in Costa Rica, by the way.
Working on my spanish and finally getting my hooves wet, so to speak.
Thanks in advance for any help.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

you mean the crest of the neck is laying over on one side?

I am now riding an Andalusian. he has a bit of this, but, it has gotten less the more weight he has lost and the more I rdie him. he also has a dip in front of his withers, that I am not sure is from how he was ridden, or some genetic factor. but, he is a very easy keeper and tends to get hard fat deposits on hi neck and buttocks.


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## Dehda01 (Jul 25, 2013)

It is called a fallen crest. It is most common in stallions that were allowed to get obese ( really fat) who then lost weight rapidly. It can be caused by some metabolic diseases and occasionally injury.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I have most frequently seen a 'fallen crest' in a stallion that was gelded at an older age. I have owned 2 of them -- one was a stallion that was given to me when he was 20 and the other one was a BS Paint that I bought at the age of 9. I bought the paint to use as a teasing stud when I was breeding a lot of outside mares. We cut him when we were through using him as a teaser and within 2 or 3 weeks, his crest fell over to his mane side. Both of these old ex-studs made outstanding saddle horses and we just ignored their old floppy crests.


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## PranaHorse (Oct 17, 2014)

*So is a fallen crest genetic?*

So this is why I asked the question. We now have a P.R.E. in our possession and we are trying to figure out if she is the horse for us.
She does have a fallen crest.
We are being told by the man selling her that she is of very high breeding stock.
She is also, acording to him, pregnant with a very high end stallion being the father. We are having a vet check out if she is pregnant, but not until next week,
She is huge, almost 17 hands and he is attributing the crest to her size and age, now 10 years, he says.
So I am confused by some of the previous comments.
I did look this condition up on line and see that it is a disqualifying feature in order to register an Espanola ( PRE) but some of you are saying it is most common in stallions or that it worked it's way out.
Her's is pretty apparent, and I am guessing that the issue will not resolve itself, but that is why I am here looking for input from any of you who have some experience with this.
Thanks very much!


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## PranaHorse (Oct 17, 2014)

*Wow! Just found all of this info*

For anyone who is interested, and has 15 minutes or so to read this, take a look:


I'd love to get any responses/ feedback.

I really like this mare, for so many reasons, and I am doing my best NOT to talk myself around any issues, so that is why I am being so vigilant with looking into all of this.
Thanks again.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

PranaHorse said:


> For anyone who is interested, and has 15 minutes or so to read this, take a look:
> 
> I'd love to get any responses/ feedback.
> 
> ...


The advice DrDeb is giving in that link goes against everything I've been told about cresty necks. Fat deposits on a cresty neck are soft and squishy. My vet has shown me what this looks/feels like on an IR horse. My own horse has a thick neck by conformation, but it is not cresty. That is, he does not have palpable fat deposits along the crest area- instead it is firm. It was like this when he was underweight when I got him, and continued to be that way earlier this year when he was at his heaviest (not that he got obese... but he was probably a 5.5 or 6 on the Henneke scale and did get a squishy fat pocket behind his elbow). It has never been soft/squishy, and I'd be greatly concerned if it were.

Her claim that a soft, squishy crest is retaining water also make no sense to me. Edema is subject to gravity and will sink to as low a point as possible- not sit on the top of the neck.

I've read Dr. Deb Bennett's series of articles on conformation in Equus and have high respect for her. I'm a bit surprised to read this advice of hers, as it goes against all the mainstream knowledge of 'crestiness' that I've read and heard from vets. It seems downright irresponsible and dangerous to tell people that their horses should have a soft, spongy feel along the crest...


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## PranaHorse (Oct 17, 2014)

Thanks for that input.
The part of all of this I am most interested in knowing about it whether or not this is an hereditary issue, or more of a "care" or lack of, issue.
The mare that I am referring to is more then likely pregnant.
We will know more next week. She was put in with a stud in April. She is 10 years old, has a very good lineage, is very tall for a P.R.E. at almost 17 hands and is sweet and gentle as can be.
She does however have a fallen, or falling, crest.
The stud she was with is a very highly regarded stallion here in Costa Rica.
The forum that the link takes us to ( see last post) mentions a few times that the falling crest issue is NOT hereditary and therefor should ( or could) not be a factor in deciding to breed.
Any further thoughts in this part of the discussion??
Thanks.


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## PranaHorse (Oct 17, 2014)

Here she is by the way:


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I'm afraid that I cannot be of much help for you. I have known several cresty necked mares and geldings that were not castrated late in life. Their crests had not fallen. Some were firm (hard as a rock) and others were soft. They were often times related to IR and the horses were prone to chronic laminitis. 

My experience has told me that a cresty neck may be related to genetic factors and that some families are more prone to them. Letting a horse get obese can also produce a cresty neck (but not in all horses) that does not go away when the horse loses weight and gets into better condition. Do you know if this mare has been obese at some time in her life? She certainly is not thin now.

As far a Dr Bennet goes -- well, I have read so much of her stuff that was totally opinion but presented as fact that I have pretty much discounted all she has written. She has zero credibility with me. She is good at forming an opinion and then going out and finding incidents that support it. That is far from scientific to me.

You might find this to be an interesting read.Winnow Equestrian Outreach
And this -- Feeding Lusitanos & Andalusians


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## Bondre (Jun 14, 2013)

Hello, I'm afraid I have no personal experience of this but I googled it in Spanish to see what came up. The terms in Spanish, as you probably already know, are 'gato' for a neck with fat deposits along the crest, and 'gato vencido' for the fallen crest like your mare. 

One article on morphology in PREs made three main points:
1) A certain degree of 'gato' is seen as desirable and is selected for by PRE breeders. 
2) 'Gato vencido' or excess of fat deposits is a disqualifying defect as you already stated.
3) PREs are easy keepers so a horse that has been selected for a 'gato' neck can evolve into a 'gato vencido' with insufficient or incorrect exercise and/or unbalanced diet. The author suggests that it is preferable to keep PREs out at liberty rather than stabled.
The author of this article didn't commit on whether genetics may influence more, or less, than correct management.
How are you for reading Spanish? I can PM you the links if you want.
I also found an interesting forum post in a Spanish-speaking forum 
FORO - GRUPO PRE - La web del caballo de pura raza espa?ola
The general consensus here seemed to be that a 'gato' neck is a recessive characteristic, and if mare and stallion are both 'gato', the foal will automatically be 'gato vencido'. But in the next generation you would only get 'gato vencido' again if you cross with another recessive 'gato' carrier. In any case, the 'gato vencido' characteristic only shows in older animals, and whether or not it ever shows probably depends on the horse's lifestyle.

Two posters on that forum cited examples of mares or stallions that had the 'gato vencido' defect but didn't pass it on to their progeny. So I guess whether or not 'your' mare's foal develops a 'gato vencido' in later life depends on the stallion.

I hope this helps! She looks a nice horse. She has a noble face.


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## PranaHorse (Oct 17, 2014)

Mil Gracias!!!
Thanks so much for taking the time do do the research and to pass on your thoughts, it is great to be a part of this forum and the horse world. I do read some spanish, and have to admit to using an online translator as well. Poco a poco.
Yes, if you would, it would be great to see the other articles if you could PM them to me.
It seems like the same info is out there in most places, and that is that none has a definite opinion as to whether or not "fallen crest" is due to specific genetics or not.
She does belong to a very noble line, and I can imagine that that means at least two things:
She could have been bred to have a large neck / crest
And, it's possible that she picked up a recessive gene due to interbreeding.
I need to know more about her lineage to answer that one.
The man I got her from did not register her when she was younger ( with out the fallen crest) as it is a VERY expensive thing to do here in Costa Rica since all of the paperwork needs to end up back in Spain…..bla bla bla. 
He does admit that she was stressed out there for a while without as much attention as needed as he dealt with health issues and is now "getting rid" of most of his things including horses and property, so maybe this contributed to the situation.
In any case, she is being well taken care of, and we will just see how this unfolds.
We find out tomorrow if she is pregnant or not.
Thanks again for your input.
If anyone finds or knows more about the genetics of fallen crests in P.R.E.'s I'd love to know everything I can.


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