# Show horse issues... regumate? Blocks? insecure? attitude? Help!



## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

That's a lot of stuff.

With a coming three year old, it could be the trainer is pushing too hard too fast and needs to slow it down. 

You said that you ruled out pain so I'll not add that to the mix.

The pinning her ears and coming at you on the lunge sounds a lot like a horse that is trying to be dominant and is trying to put you in your place. Don't back down.

I think regumate should be last on your list for now. She's young and green so if you wanted to try something, I would go with something more like mare magic or quiescence to start. If that doesn't work, I'd ask your vet about the steel marble. 

I think your issues lie w/in the training though.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

I would consider having her checked for ulcers:-(. with some of those behaviors,the fact she is young & showing stress in training....:-(


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

Good point on the ulcer stuff... I don't see the signs... but may want to put her on a preventative 


Training. I have been around the block.... this particular trainer I choice based on her personality. I actually believe he is not pushing her. I rode her today and she leaned in on circle. I corrected and she tensed and picked up shoulder.... pogo sticks.. for a bit then dropped shoulder. Trainer said leave that.... one step I have a process.... as she progresses we will address that but right now I need her to gain some confidence.... loosen up and just feel the lope... she 50% relaxed.... still uptight...


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Nell J said:


> She is insecure and untrusting.... I have worked hard to gain trust and respect... she will out of the blue.... ears back, teeth, toward me on lounge line...


Does sound more like dominant type behaviour & I don't believe it would be 'out of the blue', but that may be/become her 'default setting' if she's nervous/uncomfortable too. If she's hurting, of course that will effect her behaviour & trust & 'respect' of people too & lunging & riding a 2yo baby can do damage. Of course, horses can have physical issues not in relation to 'work' too. But you said you ruled out pain, so I'm interested what you have done to rule it out?



> easily rattled at tiny pick up rein... worked some days she feels coiled, tense,


That sounds like either fear or pain to me. Nutrition/diet also plays a big part in behaviour. For eg. too little magnesium &/or too much potassium will impact on 'shyness' and 'aggression'.



> it may be a show issue. He admits he needs to slow down, be consistent,


I don't get what you mean about a 'show issue'? Sounds to me like he's realised he was going too fast for her. 'Mental blocks' happen when things go too quickly & gaining confidence & consistency hasn't been a focus.

reprimand yes.... but she stays stiff... training is progressing bit WE feel also she mentally blocks... what is taught. I told him to put her on regumate as full bloom heat. 4 months training... anyone dealt with the like? How much time should I give her?



> But as pain ruled out a go too stiffen up he needs more time but other horses with squeal and tail going... results questionable.


Don't really understand this. Post is a bit hard to follow.



> but right now I need her to gain some confidence.... loosen up and just feel the lope...


So if you want to focus on confidence, do things that are fun & easy for her, and aren't likely to hurt her, as cantering under saddle may, especially as she's still an immature baby - I'd be avoiding cantering & doing little trotting under saddle or on a circle yet. Get her good at the basics first, and let her get more physically mature too, before working on 'higher' level stuff. She's in 'kindergarten', not high school yet.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

She is only 2!!! turn her away untill she is rising 4! she isnt physically or mentaly ready for what you are doing with her and hence the attitude problems!


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Hoping Cherie will chime in on this one……OP-you have my PM. Yeah-ulcers would be good to look into for sure. I personally would have her tested. I know there is now a fairly simple test-my BO just had her 2 reiners tested.


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## Cynical25 (Mar 7, 2013)

Ulcers come to mind, but maybe she just isn't mentally ready for her training schedule. I don't have a problem lightly working 2 & 3 year olds (you'll get plenty here who will flame you,) but I will not hesitate to put one back to pasture for 3-6 months if I feel they need it mentally or physically. You're not going to score well at a show if she's pinning her ears & swishing her tail anyway.

Personally, I'd start with the vet checking for ulcers and teeth issues, then get her a massage or chiro adjustment to rule out physical issues, and finally change up the bit and saddle in case they are bothering her in some manner you don't see. Then I'd start with the absolute basics to get her confidence up - no focus on headset or collection, just moving out and turning nicely. I would really hesitate to start messing with hormones at such an early an age.

Good luck!


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

She had a full check by the equine hospital... chiro has been done, teeth done, only health issue was irregular heat cycles and big follical. Vet said otherwise healthy. She is in heat now.... touch girth squeal... keep touching she stops... touch another place squeal....she even squealled when I touched her nose. *laughs * This is not pain... I brought regumate with to training. I don't know why he did not put her on it... when asked he said it is expensive so he wanted to wait to use it. 

As far as training goes she is almost three. I started her at 2.5 if I was a pro shower I would start her at 2.... health comes first. Physically she is vet checked and fine by pros.

Mentally yeah she does stress... she goes up and comes down fast. Like I said we realize it is 50% attitude and 50% insecurity. She is unsure..... knowing her personality I picked a specific trainer on purpose....he is the most willing to work with a horse and start things slow. PLUS i told him not just show horse but hopefully a forevwr horse.... I told him shows come second and asked for him to go exrra slow.Trust me been around the block... she seems to like him a lot... she usually doesn't come around that fast.... to liking people. She trusts and goes up to him... friendly with the trainer. He was trying to work slow with her trust/moody personality and we both ruled out any health issues we can think of. I already spent a boat load. 

What I am looking for is advice from show trainers dealing with a moody/insecure horse. Do I sell her? What are the chances of coming around to be a good show horse? She is working and learning... smart horse.... it is very slow... she just stiffens up... hard to get her to relax.. 

Trainer is starting regumate as of today...


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

Before you guys judge me and get teed off. She was born in a show barn.... they went to catch her and she kicked and broke a guys ribs.... they then sold her at auction as a yearling.... some poor trail/none show lady bought her and she was afraid of people and lady was going to send to auction again. Good lines, misunderstood.... I brought her home. At first if I looked at hind end she ran in fear. She also did not trust nor want to be touched. I spent a lot of time with her until she dropped her guard and started following me like a puppy dog. Respect yeah wormer super slow wiggle around mouth area.... she put foot up to strike... I blocked and jigged rope halter with a no... she froze up... I scratched.... and started over and she was much better. I then had teeth done, picked particular trainer, then chiro, and all the above.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

I show at very high level. I wont start a horse at all untill they are rising 4 as thier brains dont cope and I prefer my horses to still be going when they are 25! not burnt out and stale by age 6. If they do anything before then it is on the floor or occasional leaning over them.
For all you are saying health comes first you are doing the exact opposite, the growth plates in a horses knees and shoulders do not seal untill 3.5yrs old! And the mare is very clearly telling you she is not ready for the stress you are putting her under both physically and mentaly.


My lad actualy didnt grow up enough mentaly untill he was 6! that was due to his bad start in life.

Throw her in a field with anouther youngster for 6 months or better yet a year and I can garentee she will come back a far far better horse.


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

Maybe my rescue attempt here was me getting what I paid for ... I was hoping to work through it and make her a good horse. I thought she was just misunderstood, but now perhaps she has psychological issues. She is 100% better, but I did not expect the working attitude to be as big a barrier especially with my trainer pick. He suits he personality well... but might not be enough....

What do you think?


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

I think you've blown her brain by doing too much too soon! as I said turn her away for 6 months and she will come back a far better horse. At 2 irregular cycles are not unusual as the mare is essentialy going through puberty, I wouldnt put her on any suppliments at all and I certainly wouldnt put her on regumate. Give her the time nature intended and she will come right (oh and get a trainer who doesnt rush horses past thier mental ability)


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

faye said:


> I show at very high level. I wont start a horse at all untill they are rising 4 as thier brains dont cope and I prefer my horses to still be going when they are 25! not burnt out and stale by age 6. If they do anything before then it is on the floor or occasional leaning over them.
> For all you are saying health comes first you are doing the exact opposite, the growth plates in a horses knees and shoulders do not seal untill 3.5yrs old! And the mare is very clearly telling you she is not ready for the stress you are putting her under both physically and mentaly.
> 
> 
> ...


In NRCHA 3 year olds is big money.... then 4 year old derbies. I skip futurity as I will not put that much training into a young horse. I did three months at 2.5 and took home for trails and light riding for three months now she is back at trainers to put minimum on to bring to shows for exposure then will get time off again.

I REALLY wish they would change the show ages..... it is ridiculous!


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

thing is of the horses who win the 3yr old classes how many go on to have long full careers? how many horses that actualy enter training for these classes actualy ever enter the ring and how many end up on the scrap heap? it is a rare horse that is mentaly ready for those classes and your mare obviously is NOT ready and she is telling you that, you however cant see past your showing goals to realise that this horse will not be mentaly able to do those classes for you and you should either turn her away and let her mature or sell her and buy somnething that is able to cope. 

We have young horse classes over here but 4yrs is the youngest they can be shown, very few horses who do well in the 4 yr old classes ever make it to top level competition as that much that young makes them very very stale very quickly!

I wanted to have my horse at RIHS level as a 5 yr old and HOYS as a 6yr old, physically he would have been ready, mentaly he couldnt cope, last year he did local showing with one champs show at the end of the year. This year he will be doing RIHS qualifiers, he is now 7yrs old! But to me his mental health and longevity come above a silly piece of ribbon and hopefully my longterm planning will mean that he will win me far more ribbons over the long term than he would if I burnt out is brain aged 5!

She is not a problem or difficult horse she is just a horse who has been pushed too far too young.
If you chose to sell her please ensure she is placed in a home who are willing to let her grow up mentaly before pushing her!


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

Cynical25 said:


> Ulcers come to mind, but maybe she just isn't mentally ready for her training schedule. I don't have a problem lightly working 2 & 3 year olds (you'll get plenty here who will flame you,) but I will not hesitate to put one back to pasture for 3-6 months if I feel they need it mentally or physically. You're not going to score well at a show if she's pinning her ears & swishing her tail anyway.
> 
> Personally, I'd start with the vet checking for ulcers and teeth issues, then get her a massage or chiro adjustment to rule out physical issues, and finally change up the bit and saddle in case they are bothering her in some manner you don't see. Then I'd start with the absolute basics to get her confidence up - no focus on headset or collection, just moving out and turning nicely. I would really hesitate to start messing with hormones at such an early an age.
> 
> Good luck!


Interesting.... she had some time off... actually isn't doing as well as she was doing after three months off.... trying to build her confidence up... 

Saddle check is probably a shot in the dark... even though she sqeauled like twice for me at home... she was way better after a little time ... I had a semi quarter horse bars saddle.... trainee used a full. She recently grew put of semi but doesn't perfectly fit a full bar. I noticed trainers saddle was a tad loose as I am looking for a saddle to fit her right. ..

Hmmmmm....


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

Trainer is currently working on boosting her confidence level.... he is going to keep at it and put her on regumate. Vet recommended as follicals can get painful.... no pain on pressure point now.... was why I had her checked to begin with first time. She is MAJOR heat moody...


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

I will need to make a decision in next month as I don't have a ton of money to keep working with her or sell her. I would also be a bit worried about what home she gets and that is a huge problem. She needs the right type of owner for her personality. I really enjoy her moody or not she is safe and fun for me. I may end up making her a trail horse instead...but I can't keep paying training fees if it won't work out.... because I won't have a show horse then....


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Oh dear, I give up.

What your trainer is doing is the same as giving a 10 yr old child the pill and expecting her to be normal at the end of it. All it will result in is either a life time on regumate or a totaly messed up mare. 
Enlarged folicals are only painful when pressure is applied over them - like when riding! they are a perfectly normal part of a mare growing up.

You are on a path to totaly ruining what sounds like a lovely horse because you are determined to rush her and force her into something she cant cope with!


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

We click pretty well actually. I get her and feel the trainer does to. He likes her just concerned about her show potential for me. She trusts us but has a reserves worry there.... trust wavers.... she tenses and goes *oh okay* and works for a bit... over and over... probably the main issues is I really like her and want it to work out. Maybe I have my answer..... she probably does not have the personality to relax and learn... may need to go super slow. Perhaps cheaper to do the training myself... problem is she is super smart and a lot of horse...


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

Nah vet said she would only have to be on it for a year


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

you obviously dont get her that well!!!! the mare has been screaming at you that she isnt coping and you keep going. 

Your trainer is right, the mare is never going to make that level of competition at that age! she isnt metaly strong enough. 
Oh and waiting untilll 4yrs is not going super slow, it is actualy going at a normal pace for a normal horse. It is only exceptional horses that can cope that young and this mare is obiously a normal horse not an exceptional one!


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

faye said:


> Oh dear, I give up.
> 
> What your trainer is doing is the same as giving a 10 yr old child the pill and expecting her to be normal at the end of it. All it will result in is either a life time on regumate or a totaly messed up mare.
> Enlarged folicals are only painful when pressure is applied over them - like when riding! they are a perfectly normal part of a mare growing up.
> ...


I love these sites... simply because only the owner knows all the information. We also go from our background. Also early training etc gets our emotions entwined because we love horses. 

She would probably be at slaughter if I didn't buy her. Breeder actually told me she in dangerous and send her to auction.

*waves hand* No such thing since I took her home she tried a few shenanigans and now is perfectly safe.... happier... more trusting. I WOULD most definitely pull her out of training if I felt she was tweaked out.... she isn't. She seems happy... trainer got off looped reins up and she followed him to me.... I scratched her.... there is no burn out.... and the trust issues she has need to be worked out the most or she will be a dangerous fearful horse 

Have to keep asking, let her realize she isn't being hurt, and let her figure something out.... give praise... gain her confidence that OH that wasn't so bad.... I am fine everything is good. 

This is what the trainer is doing... relax... we are working on her confidence she is NOT hammered on... she is so sweet and sensitive.... my only reprimand has tiny pick up on inside shoulder dropping and she tenses up.... or ask to spin rib out, no spur push rib very slight with leg ans she tenses up.... stop her and scratch.... ask spin again.... alright good girl...

Relax this is all our "meanness"


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

My Mom's two year old is there too, he is going on three. *smirks* He is a little slower mentally... but his sire was as well and placed high. Trainer just said with him have to take it easy and go at his pace... will make a nice horse just take a little longer


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

The mare is not ready for it but you keep insisting on it. If you keep pushing her she will totaly flip on you and do some serious damage to either you or your trainer. Of course she is friendly once your trainer has gotten off her, she is under no pressure at that point.

I cant believe any vet would be so horribly irrisponsible as to put a young sexually immature filly on regumate for any time at all! let alone a year.

I dislike breaking them young, however some horses can cope with it. This one CANT, so stop before she gets to a stage where her only option is hurting someone!

You are Ribbon blind. This mare has reached her limit for her mental age and is screaming at you to stop before she freaks!

My lad was all sweetness and light on the floor as he felt he was safe and could cope, ridden he was not mentaly mature enough to cope so freaked out big style when pushed (and by pushed I mean asked to take a step forwards with a rider on his back)! Your mare is on the same track!


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

faye said:


> you obviously dont get her that well!!!! the mare has been screaming at you that she isnt coping and you keep going.
> 
> Your trainer is right, the mare is never going to make that level of competition at that age! she isnt metaly strong enough.
> Oh and waiting untilll 4yrs is not going super slow, it is actualy going at a normal pace for a normal horse. It is only exceptional horses that can cope that young and this mare is obiously a normal horse not an exceptional one!


Nothing wrong with waiting until 4.... that isn't super slow. .. Three is the best age I findmentally for training... still curious and trainable... not as "set in ways" yet.


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

The training has nothing to do with ribbons... if I wanted a ribbon she would have been in training right when I bought her and have a years training at 3. 

My mom's going on four year old mare. The trainer said could take world NRCHA let me keep her in training.... he wasn't joking... my Mom said nope, give her some time off maybe Derby year competitions... he was crest fallen.... oh well.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

So why will you do it for all your other horses but not for this one? she clearly needs time off and a slower approach but you keep pushing her!


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

my 2 cents. 

I knew a mare that was tense, flighty and dangerous. She was bred and raised by her current owner. when she was a yearling(who had been worked with extensively) she saw something on the ground, took off and crashed through a fence, ripping a huge gash on her hip. When she was 2.5 she was sent off to a reputable trainer to be started lightly, so she could race as a 3 year old. She scared the trainer badly(been starting race horses for decades) with her flightiness, nervous reactive personality and he ended up sending her home. She was left till 3 when she was sent to the track to be restarted and gate approved. she scared the trainer there, caused some accidents and they didn't want to work with her. She came home and had tons of desensitizing done. at 4 she raced briefly, but hated being at the track, and only ran when she felt like it, with her favorite jockey. She was ridden around the farm after that, and slowly started on trails. By 6 she was a nice saddle horse, and now, at 7, she could start training for a specific discipline. 99% of owners would have given up on her.

moral of the story: some horses take years to mature. These horses are best left to grow up, and started later, slowly.


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## SaddleUp158 (Dec 26, 2008)

Another thing to possibly try to make her more comfortable in her heat cycles is to have her ovaries injected. Not expensive to have done and typically only have to have it done once a year, 2 at the max. It has helped two of our mares tremendously.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

You're ignoring Faye's excellent advice, humming and hawing over the same thing over and over again.
If you don't agree with futurity ages - there's a simple answer: DON'T DO THEM. 
IMO so d horses can handle training young and others can't. My rising 4 year old is mentally an old soul and was practically born broke, she's doing stuff I wouldn't expect from a more immature 3 year old. 
Your mare is trying to tell you that she isn't ready, in whatever way she can. Regumate on a 3 year old? Give your head a shake. 
Poor thing. 
Throw her in a field for 6 months to a year and then try her again. I'd bet that she just can't handle work at her young age. Nothing wrong with that. If Zoe showed any indication of not being okay with what I'm asking of her, I'd let her grow up more. 
If you're concerned about showing first and foremost.... I can't help you. Or won't help you rather.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

Never heard of injecting ovaries interesting. I investigated this filly after I bought her. .. that was when I was told she was dangerous after.... and learned her Dam while she won a lot was a real "witch" from what I was told. Makes me wonder if her Dam doesn't have heat cycle issues to and second WHY they bred her? They stopped breeding after my filly. 

Trust me had SEVERAL fillies... her heat cycles are off the chart. She is way better more relaxed when not in heat 75% less anxious/moody and she works beautifully when she decides too....

Poster with race horse..... now that is the type of story I am looking for there. 

As far as training goes.... she has to get that confidence up.. it is coming. I may take her home next month see what the regumate does... and let her settle in a bit more. The heat totally doesn't help....


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## SaddleUp158 (Dec 26, 2008)

Nell J said:


> Never heard of injecting ovaries interesting. I investigated this filly after I bought her. .. that was when I was told she was dangerous after.... and learned her Dam while she won a lot was a real "witch" from what I was told. Makes me wonder if her Dam doesn't have heat cycle issues to and second WHY they bred her? They stopped breeding after my filly.
> 
> Trust me had SEVERAL fillies... her heat cycles are off the chart. She is way better more relaxed when not in heat 75% less anxious/moody and she works beautifully when she decides too....
> 
> ...



Not all vets do inject the ovaries. We have a local vet who does, but she won't share her secret. lol. I know some others who do this, but not many.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Reading through your replies, Nell, I'm confused as to what you want anyone to say. 
The horse is screaming that she isn't ready for what you want. 
You acknowledge that this can happen, but are insistent that it isn't happening with your horse. 
You agree that waiting till 4 is okay, but won't do it for this horse. 
.....what do you want then? 
I'm shocked to hear a vet put a 3 year old on Regumate. It disgusts me actually. 
Anyways, you're talking yourself in circles and I don't know what you're ultimately looking for. 

I wish your mare all the best.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

Showing isn't first and foremost. I posted that so the horsy huggers understand the age is not even close to abnormal start age actually older then in sport. *wacks head again post over and over again. The did three months at 2.5 took home three months ask trainer super slow... is going slow.... and dangerous if she doesn't have confidence AND if you ever read these posts people do have a difference of opinion and cutting them to shreds doesn't change that... 

I believe I learned not to ask for advice... I already new this. 

I did take in some of what was written.... however can't follow everyone's advise and beating me down won't change my opinion. 

Think and have a mental temper tantrum all you want. She isn't any where near ruined..... or having a mental falling out... at this point.... oh heck you didn't see the horse or know her. Tensing up any horse can do.... *sighs*


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

It is hard with different disciplines. I was looking for not a training age fight but someone in the discipline that may have had a similar type horse and what they did....

The race horse post is interesting... also heat cycle help... she obviously has issues there and I am following vet... some horses past youth age have issues... so agree to disagree there


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Didn't you just have similar problems( hopefully) resolved with your show gelding?
Two horses, both the same or similar problems, the filly showing it better because she still has her hormones..... I'd say both are not coping too well with what you have in mind for them. Not all horses are capable to deal with what is asked of them for what your goals are. I used to know a mare who went through all that for the futurity... she was a complete mental wreck. And she wasn't the only one of that year's lot. 
For me there are only two possibilities.... either keep getting youngsters until you find one who can handle it, or step back in your expectations. 
I just recently watched something about the Lippizans in Vienna... they get started at 4, and start performing at 10. The most recent retiree was 28.......


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

I have a lot of years experience I know what burnt out is.... she also needs to be worked with. I have issues and home to still working on trust... but I don't have the time. She needs so ght challenge and confidence gentle figuring it out if you ask me or she will mature with these feeling and her nature....


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

Deserthorsewoman: I started him way later and super slow.... two months here and two there.... he has different issues resolved with u-gard right now

As far as everyone thinking I over push them. My gelding at three two months training, at four three months, and rode trails and played when not in training, at five two months... then none all play and clinics.... at nine three months sounds real stressful

My filly mentally yep slow. Started later then anyone else in sport... three months then time off all vet checks... now back with allowed trainee there is hand picked... yet everyone seems to think I over train stress... I am 100 times less push then anyone else in the sport.


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

Done here signing off...


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

Maybe the problem is that unlike everyone I compete against I start late and trail ride.... maybe I am too light only coincidence I can think of


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

My gelding had a different trainer. I chose this one for my filly as slow and works with horse


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

same issues, in my book....


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

All I wanted to know was heat issues, and stress horses and peoples experience so I could determine TO find a better prospect for shows ready, if pull out of training, was to work through it.

She has some mental issues different from other horses.... want advice with that.

Basically I am done.... attacked is not a way to get me to listen...


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

Should I keep her even if pull from training do you have like horse... could she be ready for four year old Derby does that clarify


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

Okay obviously not... I will sell her... off to post her for sale...


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## ropinbiker (Aug 3, 2012)

If this is a high strung horse, then you need to allow her to "mess" up, get tense, and then show her how to "untense"...All of my head horses are super high strung racehorse types, so if you put a leg on them, they want to run. You have to allow them to run, then bring them back down by bending left and right(not a one-rein stop, just working her head left then right...keep riding her until she slows down). Once she slows down then let her walk for about 3 minutes, then, put the leg on her again, if she speeds up, ok, no worries, just bend her back down slowly to a walk....this may take a month, it may take a day...don't know. My grey head horse was this way, he was nothing but go go go...it took about two weeks of just riding him and asking to pick up a trot, not straight to the lope. Once that was good, it was straight to the lope, but not the canter/gallop/run, etc. Then once I could control his upward speed I worked on bringing down his speed with my seat and slight bump of the bit. Then I moved to a leg on him, until he understood the leg didn't mean - go faster, but it meant "move away" from it...all in all, I didn't get him to where he could maintain speed, move off my legs, and to stop relaxed and with control for about a month....

You couldn't mount this horse without him trotting off at the start...now, he will stand all day and wait for you to tell him what to do. 

Doing this will teach the mare that no matter what, she can regain composure without freaking out.


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## ropinbiker (Aug 3, 2012)

Also, you say you trail ride, I would work this horse out of the arena for a month or more...I would be circling trees, walking up hills, trotting up hills, etc until she is looking to "settle down", not to tense up and freak out.

There are some horses that can't handle a lot of pressure, this may be one; so just ensure that the only "pressure" she is getting is when she does it to herself when she braces up and gets tense..show her that you are the one that is relaxing her....she will get it, as I said, you may have to go sloooooow, but she will get it.

To all the folks saying you can't start'em at 2.5-3 years .... hogwash. Most NFR horses(calf, team ropers, steer wrestlers, and barrell horses) are started no later than 3....the AVERAGE age of an NFR horse is usuall around 20, and in many years it's 22 or 23.....yes, you don't hit them hard, but you can surely get them trained safely and with no issues 99% of the time.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

nobody was attacking you. we were all stating facts. 
And, as I mentioned, it is normal that of a lot of, say, 40 youngsters only 2 or 3 actually make it in the futurities, no matter how well bred and talented they are. 
If to want to reach this high, it might be a better choice to get a youngster that needs only fine tuning. Or 20 weanlings and be prepared to" throw away"19.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

I, too, thought I was having deja vu! I even went back and looked at the other threads.....

Turn the filly out for a few months. It may be miraculous.

Nancy


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Rope, everyone has said that perhaps THIS horse can't handle it. 
Some can handle training young. Others can't. Based on the info given, this horse may not (probably not) be able to handle it. 
Anyways, OP doesn't care for my suggestions so I'm gonna stop wasting my letters 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ropinbiker (Aug 3, 2012)

Yep, could be the case.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Nell J said:


> Nothing wrong with waiting until 4.... that isn't super slow. .. Three is the best age I findmentally for training... still curious and trainable... not as "set in ways" yet.


I personally find that mentally, depending on how you go about it, they're not too young at 1yo & they're absolutely not lacking curiosity & trainability when they're 20. Unless it's been knocked or worn out of them. 

My concern with starting horses too young is the physical aspect. Saying 2yo is too young but 2.5 is not, is purely academic & from the point of view of immature bones & joints, rather pointless. Of course, it also comes down to personal preference - having a horse who wins prizes at a young age & having a horse who will go soundly into it's 30s is not necessarily compatible, so it depends what you want out of the horse in the long term.


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

loosie said:


> I personally find that mentally, depending on how you go about it, they're not too young at 1yo & they're absolutely not lacking curiosity & trainability when they're 20. Unless it's been knocked or worn out of them.
> 
> My concern with starting horses too young is the physical aspect. Saying 2yo is too young but 2.5 is not, is purely academic & from the point of view of immature bones & joints, rather pointless. Of course, it also comes down to personal preference - having a horse who wins prizes at a young age & having a horse who will go soundly into it's 30s is not necessarily compatible, so it depends what you want out of the horse in the long term.


I have read up on the actually ages... technically six is when they are fully grown depends on breed too of course. 

We just start ours young still but not as young as the rest do in my sport. Trainer actually when we said what age to start said two she is ready to go! I said ah forever and show horse. He said okay 2.5, we still bring them home only put light three months on and trail ride and then bring them back.... and not for futurity I skip that too many bad deals there. 


As far as another poster. Most our absolutely fine at two for futurity and Derbies you are right...... takes a special horse. I just want to show her in training shows as a three year old so she can settle into the commotion and have small goals right now. With where she is at I am unsure that I can show next couple years. I actually didn't mean Derby I was using that to explain training ages and it could he a goal. 

THE trainer is far from pushing her. I apologize post is more do I sell if I want to show.... or will she come around... trainer is so so on this. Trainer is doing as suggested by many. Said it a few times physically she is fine and doing great... very athletic... Martha Mega Jac and Smart little Lena bred. 

Mentally she really on ground not training or training she is super light. .. she just goes to pogo stick tight... moves but not fluid.... trainer is starting off letting her lope til she relaxes and head in game... but he is worried that she light cue tenses. (I.e. pick up rein) he just asks soft and consistent until she relaxes fluid gives praise move on. She won't ahhhh how do I put it she mentally processes she is just very unsure of herself... more so then I would hope.

I am going to take advice and sorry keep her there for another month with confidence building AND heat is very bad regumate...then if she doesn't seem to be relaxing/coming around I will take her home for a while. I will probably mess up some of the training but I can continue doing what he is doing and maybe with trails relaxing she will gain more confidence.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Firstly, finding your writing hard to understand. Would be helpful if you didn't abbreviate & leave words out so much.



Nell J said:


> We just start ours young still but not as young as the rest do in my sport.


Just that you're(generally, not meaning personal) not as bad as some doesn't make it good or right. IMO that goes for 'if I didn't buy her...' too, to justify it's OK to do certain things. *Like I said, I mean this generally speaking, not trying to assume, just responding to what you've said. 



> Said it a few times physically she is fine and doing great... she just goes to pogo stick tight... moves but not fluid.... trainer is starting off letting her lope til she relaxes and head in game... she is just very unsure of herself...


I feel like you're talking in circles & ignoring/discounting/contradicting half of what you've said. 'pogo stick tight' is either due to too much physical or mental stress. IOW, something is indeed 'too much' for her. I know you've said she's physically ok, but you've also said she is not being worked too hard/fast(contrary to what you're telling of her reactions), must be on a drug to reduce her hormonal pain & you've also said you appreciate horses aren't physically mature until around 6yo & yet you're riding her at a lope at not even 3yo. & if she's 'not sure of herself' I'd take that as not mentally ready(not due to immaturity IMO) for whatever she's being asked, aside from physical considerations. 

I haven't read whole thread, but have noticed you're feeling 'attacked'. But I for one, have only seen people objectively responding to what you have written. Of course, if your prerogative is showing & you don't mind the physical damage that may be happening due to riding a baby, if you are positive the horse is not being 'pushed' too hard mentally, despite appearances(based on what you've said), that's your choice, but you have come here for advice & we have just given it, based upon what you have told us.


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

loosie said:


> Firstly, finding your writing hard to understand. Would be helpful if you didn't abbreviate & leave words out so much.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I appreciate your sensitive approach. It gets tough when I see both sides. Six yeah.... truly she. Grown scientific fact.... though personally several horses (usually start at three) three happy eager, four same, five is when they go wait a minute this isn't really that fun looks low work... six settled in. Personal experience. Now Chica I really have been told by several numerous times I am too cautious and put human emotions to my horse. Told over and over when opposite side.... here I figure different perspectives I am a freak on horse care. She is in a safe barn as over paranoid and with mental I do agree she needs slow maybe slower then she originally showed me. If you saw horse if could post video would clarify some.... She is not in harms way truly I would freak.... looking for right way or I would not post slightly alarmed yet I really trust the trainer... a lot he is horse savvy (bash on him I will freak..... he is doing a great job and brought to attention the need sorry maybe I live in horrid trainer state but past trainers I have seen I can tell you.... ) 

I gave her three months off recently.... she is worse then prior three months off.... she has been there three weeks again. I shall let her go another month (four hours away) drive down weekly... apparently all posters think she needs more time. 

OKAY WHERE WOULD YOU GO FROM HERE let's try new question..... what should I be doing. I said sell but she super pulls my heart stings processed and forget that..... she really won't let boarders touch her in our barn a pest to me and my mom.... next step here goes.... tell me!!!


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

Yep despite anger here I am not stress factor she gives me a bit more then others maybe why I likehher a lot... she has given me her trust ... riding she gets tense but relaxes and I give her that.... I just calmly work on what she knows til she goes oh okay.... so where from here?


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Really hard to understand what you're on about when you write like that. Proper sentences, punctuation & paragraphs are really helpful.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

As I think has already been suggested ad nauseum, let her grow up for another year or more & then start training more slowly, easily & positively. 

If your horses start out happy & eager & are over it by 5, IMO you're going about it the wrong way. But then, I'm into horses because I like them, so I like my horses to enjoy their 'work', not just do it because they must. I do appreciate not everyone cares about the horse's attitude.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I see several possibilities, if you're not bent on showing her.... find a ranch, make her work there. Gives all the stuff she learned a purpose, keeps her mind fresh, she gets more than enough exercise, demanding, yes, but differently.
Or,
as old timers did, breed her. Find a nice, laid back, equally talented stallion, who made it through the training without issues, and, with a little luck, produces the next prospect, while she can grow, mature, and get her hormones in check,
or
Being her home and trail ride her for as long as it takes her to find herself.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Firstly I apologise that I haven't read through all the posts so I'm likely repeating what some others have said
No two horses are ever the same so when someone says that they have started horses at such a young age with no trouble therefore all horses should have no problem with that I just see a person who has only owned a specific type of horse or not many horses.
*I have had mares on Regumate, if you handle it carefully then its not a risk to you but the mares I used it on weren't high strung, aggressive or difficult to handle in any way - they were just way too 'high sexed' when they were in season for their own good - so pushing themselves on other horses in the field who didn't appreciate it and getting themselves injured. If anything when they were in season they were really affectionate - too affectionate at times.
*The squealing and kicking back that some mares do can also be a dominance and submission thing commonly seen when you move a mare to new surroundings and new companions
*I would always treat for ulcers in a horse that's as fractious as this and has had a recent history of being moved from one place to another with a change of routine and handlers because it causes stress and stress causes ulcers
*Did your vet check for ovarian tumour(s)? They are one of the most common causes of extreme behavior in mares and your mare is displaying typical symptoms
http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=90522
* Have you wormed her for encysted worms? They can cause severe discomfort and ulceration and will make a horse very fractious. I knew someone who had a horse put down because it was too dangerous to be around and an autopsy revealed it was full of encysted worms despite having been wormed regularly with conventional wormers
*Has the vet checked her for brain tumour?
*If this was my mare and I ruled out all the possible health issues I would turn her out 24/7 for at least 3 months and do nothing more with her than check her over and feed her every day. It would give her a chance to relax and wind down - you could then start again with a clean slate


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Jaydee - I've no problems giving mares regumate if nessecary, however this is a 2.5yrold filly who is essentialy going through puberty. If you give her regumate now you will mess her up for life! Just like if you give a 10yr old child HRT for those going through the menopause it skrews up thier system permanantly.


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## 40232 (Jan 10, 2013)

*just noticed there was 7 pages. Oops. Probably repeated a lot.

If you are really asking us if you should sell her or not, based off of her being a naughty, immature 2 1/2 year old, you might as well sell her. She sounds like she is not mentally ready to be ridden like you expect her to be. My "show-bred, show-barn kept" horse didn't get seriously ridden until 4. It sounds like you are pushing her way too fast. I would not be surprised if this horse turns into a nasty show sour horse with how she is now. 

When my horse was 2 1/2 he did 10 minutes of ground work, if that, a day. Sometimes he would be saddled, and sometimes I would sit on him. No more than that. Now, at 5 years old, he is mentally and physically ready to work. He meets me at the gate and loves being out on a ride. 

My advice? Stop the show training. Bring her on pasture rides, trail rides, or just bring her out to be groomed and groundwork. Or stop riding completely for a few months. She needs time. Not more pushing, not to be sold, time.


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## ladygodiva1228 (Sep 5, 2012)

The filly sounds like one that just needs more time mature and grow up. 

My Saddlebred wasn't broke until she was almost 7 and I owned her since she was 3. Her brain just wasn't there at 3 she really needed the extra time to grow up. Now at 10 she is a wonderful equine citizen. I also did alot of ground work with her which made a big difference in her attitude and flightyness. When I go out to the paddock with a bridle she is running over to great me as she knows it is time for riding.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

There was a time I worked with 2 year olds that someone else had trained, on a large ranch with 80 head of horses. Whoever had started these babies had pushed them too fast and they'd become rebellious. I learned the owner pushed for fast results. I refused and started them from the beginning and what they learned was solid but not fast enough for the owner. He was a cruel man when it came to horses and that I couldn't deal with and left.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

faye said:


> Jaydee - I've no problems giving mares regumate if nessecary, however this is a 2.5yrold filly who is essentialy going through puberty. If you give her regumate now you will mess her up for life! Just like if you give a 10yr old child HRT for those going through the menopause it skrews up thier system permanantly.


This mare is nearly 3 years old and (I double checked with my vet who specializes in breeding) a filly reaches full sexual maturity by the age of 15 months - some as young as 10 months so its not going to mess her up at all
However I don't think that this mares behavior is anything to do with her reproductive cycle/in season behavior so its unlikely that Regumate would have any effect - though the OP could try it for a few months to see if it did. She can only get it through her vet who will surely advise
As for humans - HRT does not screw up your system permanently - its only effective while you take it - the same as the birth control pill


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

jaydee said:


> Firstly I apologise that I haven't read through all the posts so I'm likely repeating what some others have said
> No two horses are ever the same so when someone says that they have started horses at such a young age with no trouble therefore all horses should have no problem with that I just see a person who has only owned a specific type of horse or not many horses.
> *I have had mares on Regumate, if you handle it carefully then its not a risk to you but the mares I used it on weren't high strung, aggressive or difficult to handle in any way - they were just way too 'high sexed' when they were in season for their own good - so pushing themselves on other horses in the field who didn't appreciate it and getting themselves injured. If anything when they were in season they were really affectionate - too affectionate at times.
> *The squealing and kicking back that some mares do can also be a dominance and submission thing commonly seen when you move a mare to new surroundings and new companions
> ...


VERY good info. At 2.5 and telling the trainer to go slow as slow gets because I knew she is a sensitive horse... raise voice and she tightens up/worried. She started off really well.... he said he was not asking a lot but she kept giving.... then kick out, squeals (she squealed a little prior but she squeals here and there doing anything.... a lot when in heat). Stop squeal kick out, pee.. so he called me asap this was toward end of three months she was coming home soon any ways... to be a horse for a while. Vet said bladder infection and trainer treated hopped on and same deal except horse he stopped riding her and I took for to top notch rated high in nation Anoka equine hospital. She already had a chiropractic done and more. Teeth were done prior to training to FYI, and equine hospital vet rechecked chiro, pressure to side kick squeal.... he checked for ovarian tumors and found a "huge follical sure you don't want to breed her people pay to find this when breeding" Ha Ha.... NO!! Any how he said all the issues were pain from big follical that would drop soon and she had abnormal heat cycles. He prescribed regumate. He said she is uncomfortable in heat can be common, give her regumate and in a year her heat cycles should get on schedule and you won't need to use the regumate.

Wormer interesting. I used Zimectrin Gold last time and as I rotate wormer trying not to miss any I used Safe Guard the other day.


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

I didn't check for brain tumor

She is bottom of the herd of six we have

Also currently she isn't kicking out, rearing, bucking.... she just tenses up and squeals on stops and petted and squeals about every freaking thing. I wanted to try to not use regumate and see how she does. I pressure checked where follicals are no pain or squeal or kick there 

She is affectionate she wants to he scratched.... I was scratching her neck and she looked like she was going to fall asleep on me... stopped she put head by hand I pet end of nose squeal stomp FOR REAL....I backed her up firmly and went back to scratching nose on purpose took two squeals then she stopped it.


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

Main issue is she gets tense she is working sort of good. She just tenses up... trainer is perplexed he really wants her to like her job and want to work. He just shook his head said I am going slow she just isn't relaxing even small moves she knows... staying stiff mental block have to calmly keep at what she knows even and she relaxes... then on to next thing repeat. He is frustrated because he wants her to want to work. 

The gelding my Mom has there same age (yes different mentality) is really liking the work, nice soft eyes, soft look, paying attention. Most his horses are pretty friendly, healthy, happy horses.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

If the Equine Hospital are suggesting Regumate then I would take their advice and try it for a few months. the effects are very fast so you would see a change in her quite soon if that was the cause of her problems. If it doesn't work then you are back to looking at other options but if she is in pain from this then its pointless trying to proceed with her until you have it controlled


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

No pain right now mainly mind... so we shall see if regumate helps the mind. I think I will put her on U-gard as a preventative for ulcers as some people on here suggested it.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I would try the U-Gard - again its not going to hurt anything
Its not always easy to tell if a horse has some internal physical pain and pain definitely does affect the mind
Take a step back from the level of work you have her on and give her time to settle in and relax. Horses are like people - they don't all deal well with the same pressures of work. I have one that takes way longer to train to anything new and falls apart mentally if I push her too hard - gets very wound up like your mare does - but taken really slowly she gets there in the end and once she does performs very well


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)




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## 40232 (Jan 10, 2013)

Nell J said:


>


She still looks so young to be ridden :/ my main question is are you willing to stop riding her for a while to give her time? (If it doesn't turn out that the regumate or uguard helps)


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

Yeah, I will haul her home. Giving her this month to see what happens. I wish I didn't live in Minnesota.... otherwise there would be more ground work etc trust building activities I could do at home myself now. She has always been insecure, come a long way from where she was. I hope the medication helps....heat definitely makes it ten times worse. Like I said that is trainees main goal..... but even going slow she may need more time. We shall see...


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

I am a determined woman... pretty near dang sure I found the problem with my poor little filly. 

ANYONE have heat issues check this site out! Pretty sure I am taking her home soon.

Why Does my Mare Always Act Likes She is in Heat and Act so Witchy for Most of the Time?


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

Trainer is correct I think the problem is going to take a while to straighten out.... a long while... poor thing!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

If it's all 'in her mind', then no, Regumate will not do anything. Training is likely the problem there. While of course that pic isn't great for evaluating the saddle fit, it looks like it may be over her shoulders & too long - looks like skirt is up to her hips.


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

Loosie I agree with the saddle.... does not quite fit right. As far as he mind goes it isn't' a bad thing jisy means super super super slow.... my biggest need is confidence building exercises.. have to look some up. Funny thing is she deplays most of the submissive mare symptoms:

Bottom of herd, but she doesn't avoid all the other horses.... we got a new mare she is buddies with been good for her.

She didn't have a relaxing start to life on top of all that prior to me getting her, fearful thing

Squeals... but I did take her to a clinic once where I took her in corner away from herd mate and did soft circles until she settled down... she later hours later was calm, smooth lope, she actually seemed to loke the cow work....no squeals or peeing there with me on her...even to start with not in heat though I I was super gentle only some nudging which she responds too.

Squirting pee that she does... why we had bladder check and ovary check... like I said she did have big painful follical then... 

Might have to take home like I said. Article says time off tried that for a bit, course with time off maybe even tinkering I do better there, also said some times mares like her take a month to settle in to training, slow slow slow work, and they can come around some. Confidence is key.

I will still as way worse heat.... talk to trainer tell him NOT worried about performance must walk her put on regumate and ugard one month then probably coming home. 

Have to see what happens.... I can save up for another horse later in time. I did know she was fearful just not to this extent... figured right hands she would come around faster.... not as fast as she seemed to for a bit....


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

For shows she may be a show horse later. I am a little worried a my ability down road workong with her. She should gain confidence with me and it will be slower AND I will certainly mess up a few things.... but oh well healthier, happier horse. I have decent foundation on working with young ones. I lack confidence in my ability to keep super soft etc... pro training going. I can start and ride a nice horse just no where near ability of show....maybe be a good confidence builder for both of us ****


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

Sorry for spelling and grammar on my phone I can't see all of what I just wrote and hard to scroll to correct.


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

Update: Mare is squealing less, little less tense, BUT is definitely in full bloom heat. See what happens? Is of regumate not as tense or squealing? Is it that I told trainer confidence and trust no performance goal til I can figure this out and probably take her home. Hmmmmm I curious to see what happens because she was way better at home when out of heat. 

No not taking the trainers word for it even though I trust him. Four hours away but will see once a week til she comes home unless she magically settles in.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

What I would try if I were you...

Take her home and throw her out in a pasture with a secure, confident horse (sounds like you have other horses). About 3 times a week I'd saddle both horses up, ride the secure, confident one and pony the filly along on trail rides. Once she's totally relaxed at this then have your mom or someone else ride the confident horse and you ride the filly. As long as she's being mannerly ask nothing of her but what she is willing to give. In this I mean make sure she knows and does the basics like stop, turn and back but leave the speed up to her. Once she gets this stage down pat start taking her out by herself for some short rides. Then switch off with trails and a little bit of arena riding. Send her back to the trainers next winter to get her ready for the show season.


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

JCnGrace... I like that one!! She has another filly at home she really bonded with and started to come around with another gelding.... playing I was so happy to see that before she went back to training. Prior she was more afraid of others except food times lol..... but her best buddy is going to training soon (my Mom's rescue... not so odd they connect similar past). 

I trail rode her once....she stops and goes. She knows the basics already. She bipassed my Mom'sfilly took lead and not so stressed. Can't say she liked the trails but I tried hard to leave her be no push. She paused at down logs... but rather then push the other horse took the lead and she went through and again passed other horse. Hour ride no longer as young and at a walk.

Per medical I read on her personality.... not necessarily fearful of new places etc....more people and other horses. I like the idea though because she seems to forget about me so much sitting there.


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

Update: Checked on my filly in training... she is now working under saddle he switched it up to a little longer warm up on the ground and walk with little correction... she is way more relaxed UNDER saddle... but FULL bloom heat. Squeal about everything... embarrassing. He thinks what she needs is consistency...building on trust recommends I keep her going. I did ride her again. This time she was smoother for me and paying attention. He said cannot sell a horse like her... 90% of people would not handle a horse like her correctly. She needs patience and consistency. We shall see my own program is similar. Waiting to see what happens next week. I said one month we are on two weeks back in training.


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

One month and two weeks under regumate that is.... so two weeks into give it another month


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

Regumate... took away the heat. I picked her up from training. The riding was fine... she settled in...became apparent she was tensing up and getting overwhelmed with all the activity on the ground. She stopped squealing under saddle and relaxed... but around the people and horses.... she would squeal and stomp and get uptight... too much activity for the young submissive horse mindset...

End story... I will let her settle in at home... then ride light and sell at a loss to a happy trail home etc with less demands and activity going on. Once she settles in get her back up on ground work to stop the stomp and squeal which is disrespectful, but due to stress. Still can't let that get away. Weird I kept focusing on the riding took a while for me to understand the activity around her seemed to be the stressor. Arena by herself... she actually settled in to work mood and calmed down.


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## Shacane (Feb 3, 2014)

Nell J said:


> So I have a two year old coming three soon in training. She started kicking out, squealing, and trainer called. I took her to an equine hospital.... irregular heat cycle, big follical, and he said put her on regumate. I took her home. She is insecure and untrusting.... I have worked hard to gain trust and respect... she will out of the blue.... ears back, teeth, toward me on lounge line... I popped her one... ears forward... calm worked like a dream. Get on her... ride around... soft and easily rattled at tiny pick up rein... worked some days she feels coiled, tense, and I calmly and patiently... ignored tantrum with slight correction. She got over it soft.... worked, then random wrench (I.e. no forward movement let's try backing on ya lady) correct, uptight for a bit then okay work like an angel. Next time... soft and there and willing.... repeat. So I put her back in training... she is currently... squealing with no link to pain... In heat... head bashing and comparing notes with trainer. WE feel (both of us) it is part insecure and lack of confidence.... also attitude. Trainer is progressing he said slow and consistent but as squeals now at touch nose, girth, etc.... it may be a show issue. He admits he needs to slow down, be consistent, reprimand yes.... but she stays stiff... training is progressing bit WE feel also she mentally blocks... what is taught. I told him to put her on regumate as full bloom heat. 4 months training... anyone dealt with the like? How much time should I give her?
> 
> Trainer said athletic, talented. But as pain ruled out a go too stiffen up he needs more time but other horses with squeal and tail going... results questionable.
> 
> I really like the horse... she has great lines, problem past of wrong homes.... but curious on your thoughts? Experiences helpful, please post!


That sounds like a mare with a cyst on her ovary. 
So the regumate helped? And you're opposed to keeping her on it?

You know how it is when we are on our period...lol.


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

No she was checked for a cyst... she had none just a big painful follical... why regumate was proscribed... she has heat and anxiety with people and horses... she needs a lot of time and Patience... I am trying to sell her cheap .. super good bloodlines, breed to perform, but she had a rough start... between that and heat cycle issues... poor little filly needs the right hands or she will end up in a bad situation... 

Worked through most of it, but I don't have the time or money... need to be realistic. Hopefully I can find someone who does have the time and correct care... sell cheap for huge loss... or work with her with the time I have.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

Got her home and my filly completely switch to a normal and happy horse. Great news!!!! Problem was I watched the trainer ride her... and she would relax after ten minutes... she has a young mind adamamy everyone was right... the new barn and activity at her age was too much. WOW what a change at home. I am very relieved. Apparently I thought she had major heat issues by the squeal and stomp seems to be more her go to stressed and worse in heat. None of it now that she is home, but of course she did just go out of heat to. The trainers barn, to young, and bad heat. I will work with her at home slowly.... build up and exercises with some stress on purpose then bring down... repeat. First she gets a few months off just interacting on the ground with people and being a horse.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

So glad it took you another month of putting her through all that because you refused to entertain the thought. At least you're giving her a few months off - better than nothing at least, but I wouldn't expect much difference after only a few months, especially with what she's been through.


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

loosie said:


> So glad it took you another month of putting her through all that because you refused to entertain the thought. At least you're giving her a few months off - better than nothing at least, but I wouldn't expect much difference after only a few months, especially with what she's been through.


Did I say I was sending her back to the trainers? I don't believe I said that..... unbelievable... get off your high horse... I don't know who stuck a silver spoon in your mouth.... but I am trying to learn here. I wasn't born knowing all there is to know about horses. Apparently I shouldn't own any because you need a four year degree in horsemanship pre owning. One step at a time honey.. I try to learn from my mistakes and encourage others respectfully without being as ***. You bash a lot of people with some harsh words. Hate to brake it to you but us "dumb bunnies" are asking questions and trying to grow. Is that so wrong?

Us dumb *** hillish billy types well ya see here we buy us guys some ahh horses too ma'am!!! We feed and give them dar little fellers a home. Thought I would put some nice grammar in there.


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

Also will add I was following trainers... several of them saying she was okay to go to training. A few others now tell me the main trainer was wrong and she just needs heavy duty ground work per riding. 

They may be right... we all have our opinions... she is staying home and I am going to take the rest from here. She is going to have some time off then some ground work, check respect... light ground work... bonding time and more relaxing... then light riding that is not as demanding, progress from there. She will tell me what she is ready for... 

Ready set go! I can see the criticism already!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Nell, you came here asking for advice & then denied the validity of anyone's opinions that she was too young or too much was expected of her. Of course, you're entitled to your opinion & I also appreciate you were asking for & getting contradictory info elsewhere, but you requested advice, then by the sound of it, you didn't want to even consider anything that disagreed with the conclusions you seem to already have drawn. So, as said, I'm just glad it only took another month to see things differently. If you don't like the advice, you seem not to have a problem ignoring it. I don't get what you're niggly about particularly, but FYI, your own posts have come across to me very 'silver spoony' as you put it - you want advice, but know better than everyone...


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Nell J said:


> she is staying home and I am going to take the rest from here. She is going to have some time off then some ground work, check respect... light ground work... bonding time and more relaxing... then light riding that is not as demanding, progress from there. She will tell me what she is ready for...
> 
> Ready set go! I can see the criticism already!


& for what it's worth, that sounds like a good plan to me.


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## Nell J (Nov 28, 2013)

Loosie... I will take in what you said about how my own posts come across. You don't always know unless you hear another prospective. Thank you for your honesty at least!


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