# Silver bay? No way - right?



## SorrelHorse

....Subbing o.o


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## xxdanioo

also subbing. I love the dots/spots/things she gets.. so beautiful.


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## Ink

Well whatever color she is, she's gorgeous!


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## StellaIW

Thanks everyone!

She's in foal to this handsome palomino, He's going to be four years anytime now.


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## Lins

Wow is she ever gorgeous. The fact that she changes colors so drastically makes her all kinds of different levels of gorgeous! That is going to be a beautiful foal!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stevenson

interesting color. sort a silver dapple . is she a pony ? she kind of has that dapple color found in kentucky mtn horses. And a color i just call pony dapples.. lol , my own term, as the color is seen a lot in ponies. 
You should have a really pretty colored foal.


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## StellaIW

Lins; Thank you, she change color all the time, sometime's on competitions, people even think I've bought a new horse. 

Stevenson; Yes, she's a pony! Oh, it's called dapples? Thanks! I'm gonna go google kentucky mtn horses! 

Hopefully the foal will get some good looking color. If she's chestnut, it's either palomino or chestnut. But if my mare is some other color, I have no idea...


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## Endiku

also subbing. Thats some drastic color changing! It looks like that dorsal is probably actually counter shading, because it is 'smudgy' and not always evident, but beyond that I don't know. She's definately not like any chestnut I've ever seen though...

my bet is silver dappled something though, with all of those spots and the smokey appearance. The red coat throws me off!

You could always get her tested. Its not too terribly expensive. Can't wait to see the baby!


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## Lockwood

Ok, I'm curious too. Sorrels have flaxen manes and tails, or variations of flaxen. 
Bays have black points with black manes and tails.
I don't see your horse as a chestnut.


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## palominolover

Silver dapple something  oh and google Rocky Mountain horse not Kentucky mountain =)


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## StellaIW

Here's some more dapples for y'all to look at.


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## StellaIW

Soooo.... If she's a silver dapple. What colors are to be expected for the foal? (Palomino sire.)


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## Cacowgirl

She's absolutley gorgeous. When is she due to foal?


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## NdAppy

Red based with flaxen, pangre, and sooty.


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## NdAppy

BTW shaved/clipped coats are not to be used to gauge color as they are _not_ showing the true color but the undercoat of the horse. Every horse changes colors while clipped.


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## StellaIW

Thank you!

Yes, thats why I showed you pictures of her before clipping and after! 

1. Not clipped
2. Not clipped
3. Clipped
4. Not Clipped
5. Clipped
6. Not Clipped
7. Clipped
8. Not Clipped
9. Clipped
10. Clipped

And the last picture in the Iv'e only trimmed the legs with a scissor. 

The last two pics, her coat is clipped, but she still got dapples "unclipped".


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## StellaIW

She's due to foal i May.


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## NdAppy

DApples are generally a sign of good health and usually nothing more complex than that.


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## WSArabians

Thing about chestnut/sorrels they can have so many shades. I have three that don't look the same colour but are all chestnuts. 
She does have some sabino charactertistics - the jagged white over her hocks, chin white. But I don't know if her breed carries Sabino-1, which is the only test available. I have five sabino Arabians but none will test positive for Sabino-1. 
UC Davis does colour tests which will tell you what her base colour is and what she can throw colour wise, and I believe it's around $35. I'm betting on chestnut/sorrel.


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## StellaIW

Well I'm relived. I wanted her to be a chestnut. 

But what about "sooty", Could she pass that down to the foal?


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## LovesMyDunnBoy

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StellaIW

I was thinking about testing her! Hoping for chestnut/sorrel. 

Her breed is unknown too, so I have no idea if it carries Sabino-1. 

Thanks for the help!


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## NdAppy

Yes sooty can be passed on. it can be minimal or extreme and can vary from season to season as well.


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## EquestrianCowgirl4

this isn't much help but she is soooooooooooooooo pretty!!!!!!! i love her color whatever it is! or should i say colorS haha


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## Chiilaa

I don't think she is a silver bay to be honest. I think she is a chestnut with seasonal sooty.

Some of the pictures, in fact most of them, are really bad for judging a horse's colour. They are great in terms of photography, but pics taken in the "golden hour" just before sunset tend to have a lot more red and yellow in them than the horse does normally.

I don't think she is silver because of several things. First, the colour of her coat is too "chestnut" in several of the pics, including your avatar. Silver bays tend to have a deeper reddish brown, rather than the reddish orange of a chestnut. Secondly, horses with silver usually have white eyelashes, which she does not. They also usually have some striping to the hooves, which again, she does not (it wouldn't be on a hoof with a white marking, but she has a leg without white that has no striping).


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## Tapperjockey

she looks flaxen chestnut to me. Some sooty. Does she have Morgan breeding do you know? I know of a lot of sooty morgans for some reason. Anyways.. i don't think she looks Silver Dapple Bay at all.


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## lilkitty90

since her legs are so pale, couldn't she just be a chesnut with pangare? i think thats how you spell it?


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## StellaIW

Ndappy; Thank you! 

EquestrianCowgirl14; Thank you. 

Chiilaa; Thank heavens. I was starting to worry that I had a silver bay/dapple etc. 

Tapperjockey; I have no idea what breed she is. But I think she's too heavy to have morgan breeding?

lilkitty90; I will Google that!


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## Hidalgo13

I loove your horse's color! I have now found my dream horse coat.


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## Jacksmama

I second Chiilaa. I work with Rocky Mountain Horses and they're famous for all different kinds of silver expressions,lol. A silver bay is a bay that has the silver dapple modifier, which fades black to chocolate brown on the body and can just tinge the mane and tail or can completely bleach them to white. She would be marked like a bay, just with brown points rather than black. She is absolutely gorgeous btw!!


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## mystykat

StellaIW said:


> Ndappy; Thank you!
> 
> EquestrianCowgirl14; Thank you.
> 
> Chiilaa; Thank heavens. I was starting to worry that I had a silver bay/dapple etc.
> 
> Tapperjockey; *I have no idea what breed she is. But I think she's too heavy to have morgan breeding?*
> 
> lilkitty90; I will Google that!


 
It wouldn't really surprise me if she had some Morgan in there, she does somewhat resemble a Morgan. I have seen some pretty thick Morgans, there are a few different "strains" if that's what you'd call them.


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## MelissaAnn

palominolover said:


> Silver dapple something  oh and google Rocky Mountain horse not Kentucky mountain =)


 
Both the Rock Mountain horse and the Kentucky Mountain Saddle Horse display a coat color similiar to this horse!


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## lilkitty90

is she gaited first of all? because if she isn't then RMH's and rules out and most morgans have a gait. so that would rule morgans out as well.


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## Cacowgirl

There is a strain of Morgans that are gaited.


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## Iseul

I think you meant "aren't" gaited, Cacowgirl?
All the Morgans I've seen at shows around here are not gaited. So I'm sure it isn't rare to have a non-gaited Morgan. A lot of crosses don't get the gait as well, from what I understand.
Also, she is absolutely Stunning!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StellaIW

In gaited, you guys mean other gaits than walk, trot and canter right?

Then no, she only got walk, trot and canter. 

But she moves pretty well for a pony. 

Trot





Canter


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## LoveHaflingers

Truthfully, I have no idea what you would call her! The coloring in the picture from her withers back reminds me of my old riding instructor's Connemara stallion, who she proudly calls "smokey dappled dun". But she changes color so drastically, I don't think there can be one color!

But now that someone mentioned Rocky Mtn Horse, she does look a lot like some I've seen. But then when she has that golden coat, she looks a lot like a Haflinger...

I don't know, but she is GORGEOUS!


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## churumbeque

xxdanioo said:


> also subbing. I love the dots/spots/things she gets.. so beautiful.


 nThe dots spots are dapples which is a sign of a healthy coat.


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## EthanQ

cannot wait to see what this foal turns out like. mostly just commenting so i can keep updated on


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## churumbeque

That was enjoyable to see such a wide variety of color changes and a healthy attractive pony


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## xxdanioo

churumbeque said:


> nThe dots spots are dapples which is a sign of a healthy coat.


Thanks, 

I wasn't sure what to call them. I had never seen dapples like that!


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## aggiegirl14

churumbeque said:


> nThe dots spots are dapples which is a sign of a healthy coat.


Dapples aren't necessarily a sign of health--not to say this pony isn't healthy because he obviously is. Just in general, if dapples are present, they will show up on a healthy coat as opposed to a poorly managed horse who would have dapples if other wise managed properly.


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## RoosHuman

What a lovely lady! She is gorgeous.


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## QOS

She is absolutely stunning!!! What a fun horse to have!!! I'll take her in a heart beat!!!


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## Bridgertrot

Subbing. Definitely post foal pics
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StellaIW

LoveHaflingers said:


> Truthfully, I have no idea what you would call her! The coloring in the picture from her withers back reminds me of my old riding instructor's Connemara stallion, who she proudly calls "smokey dappled dun". But she changes color so drastically, I don't think there can be one color!
> 
> But now that someone mentioned Rocky Mtn Horse, she does look a lot like some I've seen. But then when she has that golden coat, she looks a lot like a Haflinger...
> 
> I don't know, but she is GORGEOUS!



She's from the Netherlands if that helps (In order to guess what breed she is.) 

I'm guessing she got some Welsh Cob in her. 

EthanQ; Neither can I, only three months left! 

Churumbeque and RoosHuman; Thank you! 

QOS; I actually almost sold her to the States a couple of years ago, There was a family here in Sweden looking for a nice 
pony for their daughter, they loved her color. But in the end, I could not bear the thought of parting with her. 

Bridgertrot; Will do so! 

This is the look she's sporting for the moment. Fat and Fuzzy.


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## Kaibear

I have no idea on her colour, but I LOVE her!!! She's gorgeous!!


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## StellaIW

Kaibear said:


> I have no idea on her colour, but I LOVE her!!! She's gorgeous!!


Thank you!


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## mudpie

You, my dear, have a very pretty pony


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## StellaIW

mudpie said:


> You, my dear, have a very pretty pony


Hopefully I will have two very soon.  :happydance:


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## Bridgertrot

Is it possible to take a closeup pic of her funky marked rear leg? I'm curious about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StellaIW

Bridgertrot said:


> Is it possible to take a closeup pic of her funky marked rear leg? I'm curious about it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is this good enough?


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## Bridgertrot

Weird. Looks like it was trying to form like the one on the right (you can see the point) but the white got suppressed. Neat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## karebear444

Well she's beautiful and hey it's cool that she changing colors and gets spots it keeps things interesting. Like the star on her butt too!


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## karebear444

On 2nd thought, maybe it's possible that your mare has some chocolate palamino in her. Check out this ad. That horse turns dark and gets spots too. Chocolate Palomino Reining Horse


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## NdAppy

karebare- not possible. She would have to have the cream gene and she doesn't.


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## karebear444

Ok just a thought


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## dreamsunwind

Her coloring is soooooo beautiful, I've never seen anything like that!!


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## yourcolorfuladdiction

*"Pangare: *Pangare is a modifier that acts by lightening certain portions of a horse's coat, usually  the muzzle, the belly, the inner forearms and thighs, and sometimes even the chest or around the eyes. When it acts on a chestnut coat, the horse usually will have a flaxen mane and tail. It can act on any color, and varies in intensity. It is often found in pony and draft breeds, such as Haflingers, Fjords, Exmoors..."

If you look at her even when she's completely "chestnut" looking, her muzzle is slightly lighter, and from the pictures the backs of her front legs and the fronts of her back legs look a little lighter.

"*Sooty: *Sooty is a common color modifier that can act on both red and black based coats. Sooty, also known as smutty or countershading, causes dark hairs to be spread throughout a horses coat, usually concentrated from the top of the back down. Sooty horses often have spectacular dappling because of the contrast of colors in their coats. Sometimes the sooty hairs are concentrated into lines resembling leg barring and dorsal stripes on non-dun horses. Some horses are so sooty that their true color is unrecognizable. For example, some sooty buckskins have been mistaken for dark bay or black horses."

I looked up Silver Dapple too and it says it only acts on the black gene not the red so it's impossible for your horse to have it 

So I find your horse's coloring fascinating you've got the pangare that looks like it comes up from the bottom, and then the sooty that looks like it drops down from the top to give her a whole new looking color. As for her being sabino, it might very well be possible, not only because of her odd looking leg markings but also the way her facial marking carries so far under her chin.


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## lilkitty90

yourcolorfuladdiction. those were the suggestions i made. i think they fit fer pictures perfectly! i think thats why her leg without the white is so light and why she is all mealy. and sooty does cause amazing dapples and makes their true color go in and out so it is hard to tell. so i think those mixed with chesnut would describe what she is perfectly.


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## StellaIW

That clears things up quite a bit!

This picture shows off her white belly. And how dark she can get. (When bright sunlight don't highlight the parts that's chestnut.)


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## Clementine

I have no idea what color to call her either (though I think silver bay is WAY off), but she is absolutely gorgeous in all her shades! Do you know what breed she is?


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## StellaIW

Thank you! 

No, I have no idea what breed she is. All guesses are welcome!


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## Tapperjockey

I'm still going with flaxen chestnut lol. She doesn't look like anything else to me.


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## BansheeBabe

This horse is gorgeous!!


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## BansheeBabe

Also, when is she due?? Put the foal on when she foals!


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## Lockwood

Hey, I have a question...
It has been many years since I have studied color and apparently things are different now. In one of my horse hair and coat reference books, studies were done on the hair shafts themselves and the coloration inside the hair that makes the hair appear the way it does.

The book showed for example, how a chestnut and sorrel hair look the same on the outside, but inside are put together differently. This book also called a sorrel as being different than a chestnut altogether aside from the sorrel having the flaxen mane and tail, while a chestun has a mane and tail of a chestnut color. This book (which I wish I could dig up, but is packed away) also showed inside the hair shaft for all the various shades of any given coat color, like the different shades of bay, the different shades of chestnut, brown, roan, etc...

So my question is....... Is sorrel and chestnut now considered the same? From reading this thread it seems so. If so, how does the make up of color in the hair shaft between the two (and flaxen mane/tail) play into things?
(Again, my previous knowledge is a bit dated and rusty so be kind to me.)

BTW, to the OP... beautiful horse!


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## lizzy12312

hmmmmm im stumped!!


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## yourcolorfuladdiction

She looks a lot like a Haflinger mix to me  She's a real cutie.


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## livestoride

I was thinking Halflinger or Halfie cross as well. She has the same coloring in some of the photos as our Halfinger/TB cross (the ones where she is more orange and a little darker) He even has the white belly, high white rear socks and multicolored tail.


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## karebear444

Lockwood from what I have always known chesnut and sorrel are different. Sorrel is more of a red tint. I agree I think she looks like a Halflinger cross.


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## NdAppy

Chestnut and sorrel are genetically the same. The are both ee (lacking black pigmentation). At the genetic level )(at this point in time)I there is no difference between sorrel and chestnut. They are both red. I liken it to the differences in shades of bay or as in people the different shades of the same natural color people can have.


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## Lockwood

Here is a link to the book I mentioned that I own. Perhaps someone else owns it too. Very insightful book overall, and it does call a sorrel as being different from a chestnut.
Amazon.com: The Color of Horses: A Scientific and Authoritative Identification of the Color of the Horse (9780878424375): Ben K. Green, Darol Dickinson: Books

Various websites on horse color seem to confuse the issue, or go against what the book says. The book has the hair shafts of each color illustrated and explains what makes each color of horse what it is according to the hair itself.
I can't remember if there is genetic content on each color in the book, sorry.
Either way, some people are calling this a flaxen chestnut (not picking on those who are, promise) or a chestnut sorrel. According to the book there aren't such things so I'm just trying to gain a better understanding. 

NDAppy- posting at the same time, missed your reply before posting mine.


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## CessBee

I am going to go with chestnut and not bay, her points are very pale so point to chestnut and not bay.


She is gorgeous either way though 


Chestnut and sorrel are just different names for the same thing, from my understanding calling a horse sorrel is an american thing, never once have I heard someone in NZ refer to a horse as sorrel, it is always chestnut.


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## NdAppy

Lockwood - I go by what the genetics say. Genetics say they are the same color... they may appear different but genetics at this point in time state otherwise.


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## xJumperx

Subbing! Your horse is like a kalaedaskop or something XD


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## Katee

This is a beautiful pony! Can't wait to see her foal.


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## ButtInTheDirt

Would it be legit just to say your horse is magical? This is definately curious, but at least once you get bored of her color she'll probably just change again.


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## yourcolorfuladdiction

Not magical, she's "A Horse of a Different Color" teehee


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## Nine

I thought "chocolate palamino" when I saw the first pictures. Then I thought "palamino", then I thought "What In The World?!" Now I am quite sure "Beautiful" is the right word. She really is pretty. I too thought Haflinger when I saw her. Can't _Wait_ to see the foal! Thanks so much for showing us the pictrures.


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## StellaIW

Hi everyone! We have four haflingers here, and she looks nothing like them and they are purebred, and she got completely different gaits than they have. But perhaps she got a little haflinger in her, but I don't think she's purebred. 

And like some of you said, you never get bored... Now she's starting to shed her winter fuzz and she got some funky things going on. 

Her face is getting really dark!


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## Hoofprints in the Sand

OMG what a beauty!!! I love how drastically she changes colors, can't wait to see the foal!! :-D


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## Nine

No matter what her color, she is pretty! Can't wait to see the foal pictures and curious to see if the foal likes to sport different colors also.


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## StellaIW

I think she's going to be dark this year!










And perhaps, she's keeping her dots and spots. (Yes, she had a nice mudbath, but I think you can she her color anyway. )


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## Cacowgirl

She is such a beauty! Can't wait to see the foal.


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## verona1016

She's gorgeous 

And to add to the sorrel vs. chestnut debate... I was under the impression that they were the same color, just that stock horse breeds call it sorrel and pretty much everyone else calls it chestnut. But, I don't remember where I heard that...


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## Chiilaa

You are on the money Verona. Genetically they are the same


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## BennysLace

Nnot sure of her color but she does look Sabino to me, she has white that goes down under her chin, her whites are jagged and the white on the back legs have seperation and parts are above the knees. Which means she can pass that one especially if daddy has similar markings.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing

Beautiful horse!


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## StellaIW

Thanks everyone!



BennysLace said:


> Nnot sure of her color but she does look Sabino to me, she has white that goes down under her chin, her whites are jagged and the white on the back legs have seperation and parts are above the knees. Which means she can pass that one especially if daddy has similar markings.


Her baby daddy has similar markings.


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## StellaIW

His sire and his(I think you call it...) grand sire also had similar markings.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand

"baby daddy" HAHAH!! :rofl: You just made my day!


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## Corporal

StellaIW said:


> Lins; Thank you, she change color all the time, sometime's on competitions, people even think I've bought a new horse.
> 
> Stevenson; Yes, she's a pony! Oh, it's called dapples? Thanks! I'm gonna go google kentucky mtn horses!
> 
> Hopefully the foal will get some good looking color. If she's chestnut, it's either palomino or chestnut. But if my mare is some other color, I have no idea...


BE warned--ANY brownish or reddish with KMH's is some of CHOCOLATE. I think they support Fannie May or some other chocolate manufacturer!! ROFL


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## wetrain17

I hope you start a foaling thread for her. She is worth keeping track of.


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## chandra1313

That is probably one of the prettiest colored horses I've seen.


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## StellaIW

Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> "baby daddy" HAHAH!! :rofl: You just made my day!


Lol, happy to make someones day by forgetting to put a "s" at the end of a word. :wink:

Wetrain17, She got a foaling thread! http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeding/stellas-foaling-thread-115621/page2/


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## aqharyder

She reminds me of a chocolate palomino, but then you have the chestnut-looking pictures, so I'm not sure. She is gorgeous though!


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## TheNinja

She is absolutely stunning!! I am thinking she is chestnut, too.
Gosh, please keep us updated on her foaling. I would LOVE to see this baby.


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## sjwrightauthor

If she has some Rocky Mtn/Kentucky Mtn. in her lineage, she may be a chocolate or creme silver. My horse is chocolate with flaxen mane and tail. He doesn't get the dapples like that, but he does turn a lighter brown and almost red during the winter.


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## corymbia

What a stunning horse! I had a chestnut silver filly with similar coat changes to her. The stallion was the standard silver- chocolate coat with dapples and silver mane and tail and the mare was a liver chestnut.

In winter she looked sooty and burnt caramel and in summer she looked regular chestnut with slightly caramel points below the knee.

She had a big ugly head though :wink:


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## StellaIW

Lol, my mare looks horrible right now, she's shedding her wintercoat. She has some funky things going on though. 





























Her belly is growing for sure, 275 days pregnant now.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand

Horrible is not a word I'd use to describe your mare!!! She is beautiful!!  I just love how unique her color and markings are!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HorseLovinLady

Gorgeous mare!! Where's the drooling icon? :smile:


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## StellaIW

Not a lot of change since last. But I think she is trying out every shade of chestnut at the same time. 

And I don't know what to think about the white on her flank. (I hope that is the right term.)










What color do you guys think she's gonna have this year? Will she keep her dots and spots? will she be a liver chestnut or perhaps a regular chestnut?

(BTW, She's 290 days today!)


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## Endiku

I don't know but I want to see that baby! When is she due?


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## StellaIW

Endiku said:


> I don't know but I want to see that baby! When is she due?


She's 290 days today. So her "due date" should be somewhere around 27 of May. But we think she's going to be early.
She's got a big udder and clear liquid. 

We're just crossing our fingers hoping she wont deliver a premature baby. 
Vet's been out. Nothing wrong. Told us to keep an extra eye on her.

Iv'e ordered freeze-dried colostrum today, in case she's gonna be leaking milk before she have the baby. Just in case.


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## Endiku

Very smart of you to be planning ahead. I have my fingers crossed as well that she doesn't deliver early!

She ought to deliver on the 22nd ;D that's my colt's birthday. Either way it looks like thats going to be one big baby! She's huge!


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## StellaIW

Endiku said:


> Very smart of you to be planning ahead. I have my fingers crossed as well that she doesn't deliver early!
> 
> She ought to deliver on the 22nd ;D that's my colt's birthday. Either way it looks like thats going to be one big baby! She's huge!


Lol, I have a arsenal of things for the foaling now. Got to get a sharp knife (red bag delivery) and a bottle, if I need to bottle feed the colostrum. 

I hope she holds on to the baby all the way to 22nd. 

I was thinking the other day; "The baby must be supertiny... I wonder if they mixed up the semen, and got me a miniature stallion. :-|"

But when compared how she looks now to what she normally looks like. :wink:


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## Cacowgirl

She is just gorgeous. Can't wait to see the foal.


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## Ripper

She sure is "a horse of a different color".

Very cool.


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## Hunter65

Wow she is gorgeous, will be not so patiently waiting to see baby!


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## Thyme

One of my favorite horses on the whole forum!
Can't wait for the baby!

<3


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## Country Woman

Very lovely


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## TexanFreedom

First of all, I have to note you are a great photographer, and she is beautiful ^_^ 

I think she's a silver dapple, or has a sooty gene


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## Chiilaa

TexanFreedom said:


> I think she's a silver dapple, or has a sooty gene


The OP's horse is not silver dapple. Silver dapple refers to the silver gene acting on a black base coat. She does look similar to a silver bay, which is what I assume you meant. However, she is too "red" to have a bay base coat, her mane and tail are the wrong shade of white, and she doesn't exhibit any other characteristics of a bay silver - white eyelashes, darker legs, etc.

As for the sooty gene, well yes, she probably does have sooty. However, there is no single gene that is responsible for sooty that we are aware of yet. In all probability, sooty is caused by a combination of genes. This would explain why it displays so differently from horse to horse, and why it's inheritance is so, well, weird.


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## TexanFreedom

She has to be a sooty silver bay. 

She gets the white mane and tail from the silver gene, which would turn the black points to a silverey color, and the brown coat to a reddish, tan or light color. In most cases of the silver gene, it barely affects the legs, but in some, it completely turns the black pigment white, hence that front leg turning silver(it's shown really well along with the other legs in the list three pictures on the first post) Silver bays' mane and tail aren't always snow white, they are sometimes a lesser silver, turning them a creamy flaxen color. Same with legs, most of the time it only turns the legs a shade darker, but on this silver bay [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/SilverBein.jpg/220px-SilverBein.jpg] you can see it. 

Silver only affects black pigment right? That's why the areas on her body where a normal bay would have black points (legs, mane, tail, are white or a lighter color. 

She has to get that dorsal stripe and the dark dapples and smudgy countershading she has all over her body from the sooty gene. And since it isn't always present and isn't permanent, it can't be the result of the silver gene on a buckskin, dun, or grulla. 

There really is no better explanation for her color. 

My reference: Equine Color Genetics 
It's very helpful and pretty descriptive.


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## AndreaSctlnd

subbing


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## StellaIW

She don't have white eyelashes, but they are pretty light.


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## HarleyWood

so what is on her cogins bay silver?


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## StellaIW

HarleyWood said:


> so what is on her cogins bay silver?


I actually don't understand what you are saying? What does cogins mean?


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## QHDragon

whatever she is, she is stunning!


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## QHDragon

HarleyWood said:


> so what is on her cogins bay silver?


Poster is in Sweden, I don't think they have coggins there. 

OP, coggins is a test here in the US for equine infectious anemia. Any horses has to have one to go to shows, or be moved across state lines, and some barn owners will require a valid coggins before allowing a new horse to move into their barn.


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## StellaIW

Oh, thank you!

No we don't do the coggins test here to go to shows. I googled and EIA is extremely rare in Sweden. Never heard of it before.


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## HarleyWood

oh haha sorry i didnt know you guys didnt have them.


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## StellaIW

No worry! I like to learn new things, so thanks!


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## LoveHaflingers

When I saw her as golden/chestnut, she looks VERY much like a Haflinger! And just the way she is built, I think she is a color-changing Haffie! (or Haffie cross).


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## QHDragon

LoveHaflingers said:


> When I saw her as golden/chestnut, she looks VERY much like a Haflinger! And just the way she is built, I think she is a color-changing Haffie! (or Haffie cross).


I thought she looked very welsh cob like, that could explain her high whites and big blaze.


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## StellaIW

LoveHaflingers said:


> When I saw her as golden/chestnut, she looks VERY much like a Haflinger! And just the way she is built, I think she is a color-changing Haffie! (or Haffie cross).


We have four haflingers here, and she looks nothing like them!

Now when she's fat and pregnant, she looks a little bit like them, but not otherwise.

QHDragon, I think so too. She got a lot of knee in her trot for one thing.


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## Chiilaa

I am almost 100% certain she is not silver anything. I think she is a chestnut with flaxen (causing her pale mane and tail), and sooty (causing the dapple effect). If she was silver bay, I would expect a different shade to her coat - she is far too "red" to be bay. Silver only acts on black hair, which is why you would still expect the bay tone to the coat.


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## StellaIW

Good! That means that her baby will either be a Chestnut or a Palomino!


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## Hunter65

StellaIW said:


> Good! That means that her baby will either be a Chestnut or a Palomino!



Oooooh another palomino???????


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## StellaIW

Yes, the father is a palomino so there is a 50% chance for a chestnut and 50% chance for a palomino baby.

It will be exiting to see if the baby will get lots of white, since my mare has lots of white and the father has even more white.


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## verona1016

StellaIW said:


> She don't have white eyelashes, but they are pretty light.


Everything I've read indicates that many horses with the silver gene "outgrow" the white eyelashes. The presence or lack thereof in an adult horse doesn't really indicate anything about whether they carry the silver gene or not.

I'm with TexanFreedom- I think she is a sooty silver bay.


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## Hunter65

StellaIW said:


> Yes, the father is a palomino so there is a 50% chance for a chestnut and 50% chance for a palomino baby.
> 
> It will be exiting to see if the baby will get lots of white, since my mare has lots of white and the father has even more white.



Ahhh lots of chrome lol I can't wait for baby to be here.


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## TexanFreedom

Chiilaa said:


> I am almost 100% certain she is not silver anything. I think she is a chestnut with flaxen (causing her pale mane and tail), and sooty (causing the dapple effect). If she was silver bay, I would expect a different shade to her coat - she is far too "red" to be bay. Silver only acts on black hair, which is why you would still expect the bay tone to the coat.


I still disagree. the silver gene DOES have an affect on the bay color. all of these hores below are silver bays.


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## Snizard93

Subbing! I have no idea on colour or breed, but she is lovely 

Please please please post photos of the foal!!


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## Chiilaa

And they all look silver bay to me. They don't look the same shade as chestnut. The OPs horse is the one in question - and she is far too "red" to be bay based IMO. Look at all those silver bays. They are a flatter tone of brown, rather than red. They also get darker as you go down the leg, a common thing for silver bay. The OP's horse gets lighter down the leg, a common trait of chestnut.

The fluctuation of the OP's horse's coat is caused by the seasonal tendancy of sooty to change from shed to shed, interacting with the flaxen and the pangare she has going on.


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## TexanFreedom

Sooty is caused by multiple genes or traits in combination, it isn't just a single gene that shows up by itself. 
Chestnut is caused by the absence of any black hair, and there is no difference in genes of a true flaxen chestnut, or a true liver chestnut. It is all just different shades of the exact same gene. The different shades of chestnut are genetically indistinguishable. 'Flaxen' is not a separate dilution or modifier gene.
Since sooty has to be caused by a combination of genes, I don't think sooty can show up on a horse that is only chestnut, and not hiding or carrying anything else(like cream or Agouti). It would have to have some other underlying gene somewhere in there to make up the sooty. 

I don't quite get what you mean by 'the same shade as chestnut'. You say it over and over, but as clearly shown in the pictures, she changes shade seasonally. And in my opinion, she doesn't really look 'red' at all, especially in the winter pictures. There are many factors that may make the color of the horse seem a shade off, like lighting, camera quality, flash/no flash, or effects the sun has on the horses coat. The sun has been known to bleach dark palominos to looking like a totally different color. You also have to note that she has sooty, which can totally affect the coat. There are many many different shades of chestnut.


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## Chiilaa

When I said the "same shade as chestnut" I was referring to silver bay. Silver bay does not present the same red colour that chestnut does - the coat tends to have a browner shade than a chestnut. Look at the pictures you have posted and you may see what I mean. I also never said it didn't have any effect on bay coats - I said that it acts on black hair (which is true) and so does not alter the actual coat colour of a bay horse - it changes the points that are usually black.

I agree that sooty is a combination of genes, If you flick through the pages and read either in this thread or another with a sooty horse involved, you will see me say that several times. I disagree that sooty needs a "hidden" gene to show up, but that's not exactly applicable to this case, as the OP's mare hasn't been tested.

I also agree in that chestnut is chestnut, no matter the shade. Flaxen, however, is definitely being caused by a separate set of genes - again, like sooty, I think it is poly-genetic, it's just too "random" in its inheritance to not be. However, you have to agree that it is being caused by something, and that something HAS to be genetic, as too many horses have it for it to be something else. 

I am still of the firm opinion that the OP's horse is not a silver bay. None of the indicators are there except for the darkening of her coat seasonally, and that is very easily explained by sooty at work. If she were mine, I would still test her, but I would be confident of her coming back as ee and not E_ at all.


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