# Dr.Bristol Bit? good or bad?



## SaddleUp158 (Dec 26, 2008)

Without knowing the horse, I will say that a Dr. Bristol is a fairly mild bit. So he should be fine in it provided he likes it.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I am curious to know how a Dr Bristol is a fairly mild bit?

A Dr Bristol's mouthpiece is designed to position in the horses mouth with the bar in the middle of the mouthpiece to rest at an angle, where the edge of the metal bar is directly onto the horses tongue.

Where a French Link rests flat on the horses tongue, the Dr Bristol does not. So when the reins are pulled and the bit comes into effect - the edge presses down onto the horses tongue.

I would consider the Dr Bristol to not be a mild bit.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

It depends on the horse, and the bit. Some Dr Bristol's are mild, others are more harsh. It depends on the size of the middle piece, the thickness, and how it's angled.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Welcome to the forum.

Did you ask his previous owner why they used the Dr. Bristol? If there is no good reason then, personally, I would switch to a French Link and see how he goes.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Based on MIEventer's and my discussion in another thread about confusion about the names of bits, it would probably be useful to see a photo of the bit you're asking about.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

That is a great idea Maura, good thinking!


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## FjordFan (Oct 3, 2008)

I would switch to a French Link too to see how he goes in that. Its a milder bit whereas the Dr Bristol is sharper with a more pronounced pressure to the tongue.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)




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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

thats what it looks like.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

yes, that is definately a Dr Bristol - I would switch to a French Link personally.

Have you been riding your new horse with a different bit? Or with the bit that came with him?


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

With the bit he came with, Im thinking about trying my other horse's bit on him, BUT I don't know if there is a reason why he has the dr.bristol bit. My other horse's (Abby) bit is just a simple eggbut snaffle.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

There is a very old saying: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". If he is going well in the Bristol and you have good hands, I would leave it alone.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

yeah I think I will stick with it, he is easy to ride, and doesn't pull on the bit very much. Thanks for all the help!


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

But your new horses, previous owner - may not of been educated in this department, and just used the bit because they were told to, or they bought the bit without knowing what it was.

So your horse could be going with this Dr Bristol in his mouth, for no reason other than human ignorance??


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

could be! I didn't notice until after we bought him though so I guess i'll never know! kinda sucky but what can do? But I think I will try him with a different bet just to see how he goes! Thanks alot for the advice!


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

MIEventer said:


> So your horse could be going with this Dr Bristol in his mouth, for no reason other than human ignorance??


For all we know, the former owner was very well versed in the use of that bit and found that the horse went best in it. 

As I suggested in a previous post, she should contact the former owner and ask why that bit was used. From there she can make an educated decision as to what to do. Changing bits because someone does not like the bit is not a good reason - it's the horse that needs to like or dislike it. More information is needed.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I agree, contacting the previous owner asking them why they use that particular bit. Find out if they knew it was a Dr Bristol, or did they believe it was a French Link like many mistake the mouthpiece to be?

I have a dear friend at my barn, who is 11, and rides a 16 year old TB. His TB came with a Waterford Bit. I dislike Waterford Bits.

After a while of watching the two together, I came out and asked "Why are you using that bit?" his response was "I don't know, it came with him"

I asked his Mother, "Why are you using that particular bit with this horse?" And her response was the same. 

The BO heard our conversation and she said "Use what you need. If that is the bit that came with him, then there is a reason and I wouldn't change it"

So - I hummed. I was asked to ride the horse, and I put him in Nelson's Myler.

Guess what - the horse didn't need that blasted bit at all - it was human uneducation. Now, due to that, this horse has a very hard mouth, rigid, throws his head up in the air when you give the slightest twiddle with your fingers. Moves around with his back dropped, no topline, head carried high - has no education.

I got off, and told my friend that he doesn't need that bit. I rode the horse just fine without it.

So that is why I say - maybe, the OP's horse is using this bit, for no reason at all, but human uneducation.

So yes - ask his previous owner WHY does this horse "NEED" this bit?


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

MIEventer said:


> I agree, contacting the previous owner asking them why they use that particular bit. Find out i*f they knew it was a Dr Bristol, or did they believe it was a French Link *like many mistake the mouthpiece to be?


A reasonable mistake - good point. I can understand your analogy and I agree. Too many people ride with things in their horse's mouths that don't belong in there and they have no good explanation as to why.

When I bring a new horse in I look at the tack that was used and ask a lot of questions. Many times the seller/owner has no good reason for using a particular bit other then insecurity on their part or another reason unrelated to the horse's needs.

I had a mare a few years ago that was ridden in a double twisted wire snaffle when I went to see her. The rider had soft hands, stayed out her mouth and the horse went well. I asked why that bit and her reason was that she was afraid that if the horse bolted, she would need some control. I bought the horse, put her in a shanked Billy Allen (she had a great rein to her and moved off my other aids) and rode her over the trails all summer. She never offered to bolt or misbehave. The bit was used for the rider's insecurity not the horse's needs.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Excellant point - I like that and very true - Riders use tack, gadgets and other vices on their horses - for their own insecurities, not for the horses needs.


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## dressagebelle (May 13, 2009)

I definately agree with the above. When I went to try out my Thoroughbred, she was being ridden, and jumped in a twisted wire full cheek, and a standing martingale that was so tight she could barely move her head at all. When I was riding her, I had literal loops in the reins because I did not want to touch her mouth at all with the bit. I never actually had to ask why they rode her in what they rode her in, because the girl explained it all. They decided that the then 7 year old relatively green Thoroughbred needed a harsher bit cause she didn't listen, and they actually stopped riding her shortly after they got her. The trainer was the one that rode her for the rest of the time until I got her. I even jumped her over 3' fences with very loose reins, and she did excellent. Very nice and calm and quiet. As soon as I got her home, I switched her to a french link loose ring, and got rid of the martingale completely, and she was awesome. A harsher bit does not solve the problem, as the problem especially in a horse that young, is often rider error, and inexperience on the horse's part.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

I completely agree with all of you! ahahaha and I think it was because the girl that had him before me, well... when we went to go see him (Duckie) she was lunging him (he needs to be lunged for a few minute before riding cuz he gets a stick in hid butt if you don't lol) but all the girl did was walk Duckie and then some other girl got on him and trotted and loped him. I don't think she was comfortable (or not that good of a rider) to do that much with him. Duckie was a doll and still is, he moves great and you don't need to pull on his mouth that much (only for a hard stop or tight turn) and both me and my sister rode him and he was perfect (why we bought him ;D) and I didn't notice what bit he had because he was already tacked up.

I also don't have any information to contact the girl


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Just try Duckie in a different softer bit, and see what happens.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

It wouldn't hurt to gear down in bits as MIEventer suggested. 

Just for future reference, I never buy a horse that is tacked up before I get there. I want the horse brought in from the pasture or in his stall. I always get there 1/2 an hour sooner then expected to be sure he wasn't worked. You can hide a lot of faults before a prospective buyer gets there is you know when he is expected.

I also want to see the horse untacked so I can see his reaction and any sweat marks as well as the tack used.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Great advice both of you! thanks! I'll try a softer bit on him the next time I ride with him. I also have another question... What about a martingale for my other horse Abby? I don't want to put useless gear on her but she tends to throw her head and when she does that she crow hops! and of course for no reason!


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Abby is a standardbred by the way. She used to harness race until be got her and a trainer re-trained her to saddle. The trainer did a good job just that Abby needs some more tuning!


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Although I've used martingales (tie downs) and training forks (running martingales for you English riding folks) in the past and would again if I thought it was necessary, the first thing I would do is to look to the physical for a problem. What I mean is to have saddle, teeth, bit, adjustments, etc. etc, looked at first. I would then look at the way I'm riding him and how much contact I'm giving his mouth or how I'm sitting on him.

If I found nothing, I'd go to the round pen or lunge line and work my horse there for a bit, maybe even long line him. If he was not doing it with me off his back, and there were no physical reasons for the behavior I might put a running martingale on very loosely. Sometimes it is just an avoidance issue and having him bump himself a few times might cure it. I use the running martingale for a short time just so that he realizes that throwing his head will cause discomfort. 

Like the old story of the man who goes to the Dr. He raises his arm and says "Dr, it hurts when I do that" The Dr says, "Well then don't do that". 

In any case that is how I handle a situation such as yours.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Great post iride!


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

yeah! I think I just need to do some ground work with her. She's 8 and was only trained to saddle last year. And check her saddle, I might be putting it to far up.


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## HorseLove4ever (Apr 21, 2009)

MIEventer said:


> I agree, contacting the previous owner asking them why they use that particular bit. Find out if they knew it was a Dr Bristol, or did they believe it was a French Link like many mistake the mouthpiece to be?
> 
> I have a dear friend at my barn, who is 11, and rides a 16 year old TB. His TB came with a Waterford Bit. I dislike Waterford Bits.
> 
> ...


 
why do you dislike waterford bits? i use one and i LOVE it.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Because they are in the category of severity.

The balls are all linked and work indavidually, and when a rider pulls on the reins, they are wrapping the mouthpiece around their horses jaw - how fun is that? The balls work as pressure points in the horses mouth - again, how much fun is that?



No wonder the horse stopps quickly, I would too if I had metal balls wrapping around my mouth with pressure.

This bit, falls under the category as Iride stated - it is used for rider convenience, not because the horse needs it.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

MIEventer said:


> Because they are in the category of severity.
> 
> The balls are all linked and work indavidually, and when a rider pulls on the reins, they are wrapping the mouthpiece around their horses jaw - how fun is that? The balls work as pressure points in the horses mouth - again, how much fun is that?
> 
> ...


Yes, but (and I know I am usually not an advocate for harsh bits!) this bit does have a use, and I've seen it correct some pretty bad rooting problems with little to no fuss. For the horse you know, it sounds like it was the wrong bit to use, but in good hands it can fix stuff that otherwise requires a bit too much roughness for my liking.
Like, there's a small little girl I know on this stupid pony. The pony does whatever it wants and the girl rides it around on a loose rein in a really nice soft bit. As soon as she picks up contact, the pony nearly pulls her over it's shoulder. It only does this with the girl on it. I've seen a clinician walk beside this pony and every time it did this give it hell and it still didn't stop. In my opinion, instead of the nice $150 Sprenger KK in this horse's face, there should be a big ol' waterford. The girl has lovely hands, is super balanced (plus she's like 80 pounds) and other then the pony being an *** it is cute.

As far a Dr. Bristols, I have never seen this bit do any good. All I see is horses with their mouths open and flipping their head around with virtually no rein contact. If the horse is so desensitized to that bit that it isn't doing this, then you need to switch to a softer bit because that horse's mouth is probably so hard.

Good luck!


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## HorseLove4ever (Apr 21, 2009)

My horse does perfectly fine in his waterford. It is the bit for him. It doesn't hurt him and i know what im doing. It is not severe at all and i never said that he stops quickly.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

It is a severe bit - and as Anabel stated in her thread - this is a bit that should be used by educated hands, for certain issues. When the issue is fixed, the horse should be put back onto a regular snaffle or regular bit.

Correct riding is what fixes issues, but when the issue gets severe enough, I can see a bit like this being used for short term until the issue is corrected.

Someone who uses this bit for everyday riding, has holes in their training and education.


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## HorseLove4ever (Apr 21, 2009)

MIEventer said:


> It is a severe bit - and as Anabel stated in her thread - this is a bit that should be used by educated hands, for certain issues. When the issue is fixed, the horse should be put back onto a regular snaffle or regular bit.
> 
> Correct riding is what fixes issues, but when the issue gets severe enough, I can see a bit like this being used for short term until the issue is corrected.
> 
> Someone who uses this bit for everyday riding, has holes in their training and education.


 
It is NOT a severe bit. My horse does not have issues, he is just heavy on his forehand. This is working well for the both of us. He lets me know when he doesnt like a certain bit, and is taking well to this one. I use it everyday on him and i have no holes in my education. Either way, you are not the one to say that I have holes in my training and education, I have a trainer, and that's what she is for.
You dont know me, nor do you know my horse or seen me ride, so i wouldnt judge


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

^ No, MIEventer is right. The Waterford bit is known to be on the severe side of the bit spectrum.

that's great that you know how to use it. Most people don't. But it's still severe, no matter how good your hands are.

I use what is considered a harsh bit also. The 3 ring elevator. However, I do not use this for everyday riding. only on XC.


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## savvylover112 (Jul 17, 2009)

HorseLove4ever said:


> why do you dislike waterford bits? i use one and i LOVE it.


But does your horse love it?
I liked one bit that my horse hated so I changed it its not about what you like but what your horse likes


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

"it has the potential to be very harsh on the tissues. It offers no relief to the tongue or bars, and no way for the horse to escape it, and no reward for the horse's correct responses. When the reins are engaged, it is firmly dug in to the tissues. Because the surface is uneven, the balls are digging into the tissue rather than resting on top of it. Rather than thinking of it as conforming to the mouth, I think of it as relentlessly assaulting the mouth without relief. And, if it is of anything but the highest quality, with no additional unevenness or sharpness of the many edges along the mouthpiece, it is potentially that much more damaging to tissue.
I'm not sure how good hands can avoid discomfort with this bit, since any contact traps the tissues with this uneven pressure and forms an indented ridge across the horse's tongue. I would consider this bit to be unnecessarily severe for these reasons."


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

> It is NOT a severe bit. My horse does not have issues, he is just heavy on his forehand.


If your horse is heavy on the forehand, you don't fix it by using a bit that uses pressure points to teach him to not be on his front end. You use your seat, legs and upper body to fix the problem through correct riding to get him on his back end.

If your trainer says a bit will fix that problem, I'd be looking elsewhere. I'd be looking towards Dressage Training and going back to the Training Scale personally.

*Great posts Eventerdrew.*


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## HorseLove4ever (Apr 21, 2009)

looking else where? lmaooooo she was in the pre olympics and is a professional dressage rider.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

And? What does that have to do with anything? I find that quite surprising since Waterford's are quite poo poo'd in the dressage world since they do not incorporate proper riding. 

Many Top Level riders I've had the priveledge of riding under in Clinics all stress that bits do not solve problems, but proper education, riding and training does. 

If all your horse is, is is heavy on the forehand - then there are holes in your education and your horses. The Waterford teaches you nothing, nor your horse - I guarantee you, you take that bit out of his mouth and he will be heavy on his forehand, yet again. 

I'm not going to argue with you on the Waterford bit. I stand hard on my beliefs with that bit, and that bit is not meant for everyday riding - ESPECIALLY if you do dressage. And especially if your horse does not need it.


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## HorseLove4ever (Apr 21, 2009)

MIEventer said:


> And? What does that have to do with anything? I find that quite surprising since Waterford's are quite poo poo'd in the dressage world since they do not incorporate proper riding.
> 
> Many Top Level riders I've had the priveledge of riding under in Clinics all stress that bits do not solve problems, but proper education, riding and training does.
> 
> ...


 
listen, i believe this is a huge misunderstanding. im 13 years old, and not very expierienced. when my trainer jeri rides pumpking she uses a dee ring snaffle. hes fine, and shapes up and looks beautiful. he is 7 years old but he coliced badly when he was 5 and had surgery. we just bought him and are just putting him back into work. since i have more important things to worry about than his bit for right now, we are using the waterford until i become more confident. then we are changing into a more mild bit. jeri is in the process of training pumpkin and she rides him once a week. the only reason i have confidence problems is because i took a nasty spill in august and went to the hospital and blacked out and yada yada yada. im sorry for the misunderstanding and i hope you realize what im going through and that i would NEVER EVER EVER want to hurt my horse. btw i dont ride dressage


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Thank you for the explanation, I do appreciate it. It makes complete sense as to why you are using this bit for the time being, so that you can become a more educated, strong rider that your pony needs.

I am sorry about your accident, that is very traumatizing to have to go through, but be proud of yourself for riding again! 

*HUGS*


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## HorseLove4ever (Apr 21, 2009)

MIEventer said:


> Thank you for the explanation, I do appreciate it. It makes complete sense as to why you are using this bit for the time being, so that you can become a more educated, strong rider that your pony needs.
> 
> I am sorry about your accident, that is very traumatizing to have to go through, but be proud of yourself for riding again!
> 
> *HUGS*


 
thanks!! and it doesnt help that im a little bit of a ***** sometimes  oh hormones lol

haha
*HUGS BACK*


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