# Owner Looking for 2 Older Horses Sold At Auction in NJ, Camelot



## tayloranngenevieve (Dec 31, 2013)

These two older geldings (most likely 20+) were taken from their home because their owner didn't pay our BO back fully. They were at our barn for approximately two days but were gone the Wednesday after they arrived. I thought the woman had paid the BO and got her horses back… Until I saw them on the Camelot website. Their owner is looking for them. If you have been to any auctions in the NJ area, or if you have seen either of these horses (one is lame) please let me know! Their owner just wants them to live the rest of their lives in peace!! I hope with all of my heart that they were not sent to slaughter...


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## tayloranngenevieve (Dec 31, 2013)

I know it is entirely legal for a BO to do this, it's just very sad.


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

The owner should try and make a police report. There are rules regarding acting on a lien. It does not sound like the BO followed those rules. 

Were the horses also on private property? You said they were there for 2 days? If the horses were moved off the BO's property, and the BO went to someone else's property to get them, that is stealing. It doesn't matter if there is a lien or not. It is a matter for small claims court, it doesn't give the BO the right to go get them. 

" Under the laws of most states, boarding stables do not automatically own boarded horses merely because the owner has fallen behind on payments. The answer would be different, however, if the stable followed - to the letter - all of the requirements of the applicable state law. Laws that apply in these situations are known as "agister's lien" laws or "stablemen's lien" laws.

For example, under Michigan's law, Michigan Compiled Laws Section 570.185 (and the sections that follow), a stable must wait until 9 months pass, without payment, before holding a special public sale that a sheriff's deputy or authorized court officer must conduct with the purpose of selling the horse to the highest bidder. The top bidder pays the money and wins the horse. One month before the sale, a specially-worded notice must be sent to the owner using language that has been supplied by the statute."


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

For another thing, I believe the owner should have been notified that she was behind on payments- some sort of notification, before the horses were taken. If the BO does not pay out any remaining proceeds from the sale, that is also illegal, as it would be stealing money from the horse owner.

*What happens to the proceeds of an auction?
* After the auction, the expenses from the auction are first deducted from the proceeds of the sale. The remaining proceeds are then applied to the payment of the indebtedness to the stable operator. Any remaining proceeds must be paid to the owner of the horse. If the horse's owner does not claim the remaining proceeds within 60 days of the sale, the remainder must be paid to the municipality in which the stable is situated for the support of the poor.

New jersey lien laws:
New Jersey's Stable Operators Act - Liens For Unpaid Board - AFFIRMED:* A New Jersey Equine Law Blog
http://asci.uvm.edu/equine/law/lien/nj_lien.htm


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## OhBoy (Jun 7, 2012)

If you're on Facebook check out Camelot Horse Weekly. They aren't the actual auction house but advertise the horses up for auction and try to find good homes. They have pics and info for every horse, maybe if you can find them on there they can get you some information as to where they went?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

You might try posting them on the Camelot FB page……you can also look back if you know about what date this happened and perhaps find them that way.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

i would move my horse, I would never keep my horse with that BO.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

I would bet that there is more to the story. Find it hard to believe any BO would take horses after 2 days for underpayment.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

In Ontario a registered letter must first be send regarding amount owing. That doesn't happen over night. Also an ad must be run in the local paper stating owner's name, common name of horses and amount owing. Then the horses can be sold but it has to be by public auction and those don't happen everyday. Usually the time frame for this is approaching 30 days or more. The BO is allowed to file for reasonable expenses, feed, cost of trailering to auctions, newpaper ad, etc. Should the sale exceed the costs the remaining monies are to be paid to the owner. If there is no other story behind this, the BO may have put herself in a position to be sued. Isn't that called Theft by Conversion - selling something you don't own?


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## tayloranngenevieve (Dec 31, 2013)

4horses said:


> ]Were the horses also on private property? You said they were there for 2 days? If the horses were moved off the BO's property, and the BO went to someone else's property to get them, that is stealing. It doesn't matter if there is a lien or not. It is a matter for small claims court, it doesn't give the BO the right to go get them.
> 
> " Under the laws of most states, boarding stables do not automatically own boarded horses merely because the owner has fallen behind on payments. The answer would be different, however, if the stable followed - to the letter - all of the requirements of the applicable state law. Laws that apply in these situations are known as "agister's lien" laws or "stablemen's lien" laws.
> 
> For example, under Michigan's law, Michigan Compiled Laws Section 570.185 (and the sections that follow), a stable must wait until 9 months pass, without payment, before holding a special public sale that a sheriff's deputy or authorized court officer must conduct with the purpose of selling the horse to the highest bidder. The top bidder pays the money and wins the horse. One month before the sale, a specially-worded notice must be sent to the owner using language that has been supplied by the statute."


The horses have been off property for over two years, my BO decided to take them now rather than before. She went to the woman's house and trailered the two geldings back to our barn before (we think) bringing them to auction two days later. I have no idea what is legal here in NJ, but I do know that we all sign a contract that if you do not pay a bill, after 30 days, your BO is allowed to take your horse in to his or her own custody and sell that given horse.

I wish I knew where these two were, I hope they are safe.


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## tayloranngenevieve (Dec 31, 2013)

franknbeans said:


> I would bet that there is more to the story. Find it hard to believe any BO would take horses after 2 days for underpayment.


They were at our barn for two days after the owner left just short of 3 years ago with her two horses. The horses weren't paid for (i guess) for over 2.5 years. They were brought to our barn for two days, they left on a Wednesday, I thought their owner paid my BO and they were brought home, but then I was looking through Camelot Weekly and their owner posted looking for them on the page. She still hasn't found them.

I'm behind on payments because my BO made a deal with my dad that we would only pay twice a year rather than every month. I never liked the idea but I can't go anywhere until we pay her.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

I am now even more confused. The owner of these horses left with 2 horses, and left these 2 behind? She then did not pay for their board for about 2.5 yrs? SO why were they moved to your barn at all? I would think the original place that had kept them for the 2.5 yrs would have sold them off for back board.

I cannot have a whole lot of sympathy for someone who didn't pay for 2.5 yrs and now wants the horses back. Sorry.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

^Well, if the owner was two and a half years behind on board, then there's not much she can do except find her horses and buy them back.
I don't now the exact logistics of the laws here in CO, but a horse can be surrendered in lieu of board. I've seen it happen.

Regardless as to what the deal is, I hope she finds her horses. ):


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

I have boarded at places that will take your horse after 30 days. In this day and age of folks dumping horses, it only makes sense to me. As long as you pay your bills, there is not an issue. If you don't, well-sorry. I certainly would not expect someone to pay them for me. Besides that, most BO's do this as a last resort, at least the ones I know. Typically, if yo communicate with them something can be worked out. But, if you basically desert them-yeah-I get the BO selling them.


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

It sounds like the BO had the right to sale them, but your story is really confusing.
Did the original owner move them to a new barn and the old BO came and got them?
It's possible the old BO had a court order to take them and then the original owner moved them trying to prevent that.


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

franknbeans said:


> I have boarded at places that will take your horse after 30 days. In this day and age of folks dumping horses, it only makes sense to me. As long as you pay your bills, there is not an issue. If you don't, well-sorry. I certainly would not expect someone to pay them for me. Besides that, most BO's do this as a last resort, at least the ones I know. Typically, if yo communicate with them something can be worked out. But, if you basically desert them-yeah-I get the BO selling them.


Most BO's actually lose more money seizing a horse for non-payment with court costs and other expenses involved. As a small business even if something is stated in a contract, you still want to make sure all your i's are dotted and t's are crossed before you do something like that.


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## tayloranngenevieve (Dec 31, 2013)

franknbeans said:


> I am now even more confused. The owner of these horses left with 2 horses, and left these 2 behind? She then did not pay for their board for about 2.5 yrs? SO why were they moved to your barn at all? I would think the original place that had kept them for the 2.5 yrs would have sold them off for back board.
> 
> I cannot have a whole lot of sympathy for someone who didn't pay for 2.5 yrs and now wants the horses back. Sorry.


Noo, I'm so bad at describing the scenario.

The woman had her horses at our barn and took them to her home about 2-3 years ago. I don't know how much she owed my BO. We haven't heard from or about the woman until December. 

I don't want to blow the whole thing out of proportion, we just want to know where the horses are and if they are safe, not asking for sympathy or anything, just hoping someone knows where they are.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

flytobecat said:


> Most BO's actually lose more money seizing a horse for non-payment with court costs and other expenses involved. As a small business even if something is stated in a contract, you still want to make sure all your i's are dotted and t's are crossed before you do something like that.


I understand that. Noone really "wins" in this scenario.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

The OP asked a straight question - Does anyone know of the whereabouts of these two horses or how they might be traced
She did not ask to have her story questioned or dissected and discussing legal issues is really not relevant since the horses have gone
My best advice is that the owner contacts Camelot Auctions and asks if they might be willing to contact the buyer. There will be a record of the sale and the horses sold there have to have a current Coggins now so it wouldn't be difficult to identify them and associated them with a buyer


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## tayloranngenevieve (Dec 31, 2013)

My BO DID have a right to sale! I'm not saying she didn't. I don't care about that, I don't even care if the owner gets them back, I just wanted to know if anyone in the NJ area has seen them. I am worried about them, only because they are so old and in bad condition. I would just like to know if they found their way to a safe place. That's all their owner wants too. She stated, " I just want my boys to live out their retirement in peace".

I have looked through Camelot's webpages tons of times, there are no pictures of these two. I have no idea where else they could be, I'm just hoping they're safe. That's all I care about.

My second post said that I knew it was perfectly legal for my BO to take them to the auction. I explained the story the best I could, I'm only trying to make sure they didn't end up going to slaughter. I realize that I may never know. They're not mine, I'm not looking for sympathy or consolation or anything of the sort.

This post was only meant to alert people in New Jersey to keep a look out for these two geldings - and if anyone has seen them or knows of there whereabouts, I hope they will contact me.

Thank you


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

franknbeans said:


> I cannot have a whole lot of sympathy for someone who didn't pay for 2.5 yrs and now wants the horses back. Sorry.



I have zero sympathy for the owner but it isn't fair to the horses either. I am very confused about the actual details. You would think she (the barn owner) would have taken the horses for herself rather then dump that at such an auction where she would likely not get anything for them. Especially if one was lame. Poor horses. Sounds like a crap situation all the way around and once again, the animals suffer.


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## tayloranngenevieve (Dec 31, 2013)

*To clear things up...*

The horses were at my barn 3 years ago, I don't know how long they were at my barn, I'm guessing it was 6-12 months that they were at our barn.

The horses were OFF PROPERTY at their owners house for 2-3 years.

I guess she had not paid her board in full, though I do not know how much she owed.

(This is way past the 30 day mark, so our BO is able to take them.)

My BO trailered them back recently.

They were here for 2 days.

They were gone after those 2 days.

I thought they went back to their owner.

They didn't go back to their owner because she posted looking for them on Camelot Weekly the night the horses would have gone through - and posted several times later looking for them.

I'm JUST worried that they got sent to slaughter because one was definitely 18+ and the other was definitely 20+, one was lame, they both looked in bad condition.

I am JUST looking to see if anyone has seen them in the NJ area because I'd like to know if they are safe. 

Their owner just wants them back so they can "live out their retirement in peace".

She is willing to pay for them. I'm just hoping that these horses are safe. 

I hope you understand the story now. I didn't think it was a confusing story until everyone started picking it apart. Now, if anyone has seen these geldings, please pm me!


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Thanks for clarifying. From this, it sounds like it may be an old dispute over $$ owed. I am guessing here, but if that is the case, and your BO went and got the horses to sell them to try and recoup the debt, IMO is just plain wrong. If there was $$ owed, the horses should not have been allowed to leave in the first place. If, indeed, the BO went and got them for this reason and I was the owner-I would be calling the police, since that is stealing.

I am pretty sure there are 3 sides to this story, just as any other-perhaps even 4 in this case. The owner, the BO, the truth, and the OP. No offense, OP, but you have no idea who did what to whom, and neither do we. 

I hope the horses are safe. THey do deserve better than all this "stuff".


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

It does appear that what the BO did was illegal. The barn owner can claim the horses as long as they were on his property. 

Once the horses left the BO's property it is a matter of small claims. If the BO did not get a court order to remove the horses, than what she/he did was stealing.

If you are in contact with the horse's owner, I would encourage her to go to the police.

It is not legal to go to someone's property (3 years later!) and take someone's horses. Not without a court order, and not without proper notice to the owner. Even if that person owes you money...

For example, say I leave my apartment and don't pay my rent- the landlords can't just go to my house one day 3 years later, open my garage and steal anything I have of value! 

Most states have a statute of limitations. After 3 years the BO may have been outside that statute of limitations and unable to collect.

What the barn owner did was very questionable as to whether it was legal or not. Yes, he may have been owed money, but in most states you cannot just charge onto someone's private property, load up their horses when they aren't home, and auction them off. It would be different if the horses were on the BO's property, but it is a whole other story if they were on private property. 

The horses owner would be well advised to go to the police. If this is a case of stolen horses, the police could probably locate the horses much quicker than asking around facebook and a bunch of online forums. 

It is not like the owner will be in trouble for attempting to make a police report... Either what the BO did was legal or it wasn't. 

I feel sorry for the horses, but I think some of the blame lies with their owner. If they were my horses, I would have been at the police station the moment I saw them missing.


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## HorseMom1025 (Jul 17, 2012)

Hopefully the BO did more than just show up on someone's property, load the horses and dump them at an auction...regardless of the back story on why she did it, I would consider this theft and if it could be proved, filing criminal charges against the BO.

I actually looked into this on Texas recently (our BO was having some issues with a border not paying). 

How do I foreclose on a stable keeper's lien? Your foreclosure has to comply with Section 70.005 of the Texas Property Code. Under that section, you must: 1) have possession of the horse for 60 days after the date the charges accrue; 2) make a written request to the owner to pay the unpaid bill; and 3) if the charges are not paid on or before the 11th day after you made demand for payment, you may sell the horse at public auction after giving the horse owner 20 days’ written notice. 

Also from that article:

Remember—the stable keeper’s lien is a possessory lien. This means that if you give the horse back to the owner before the bill is paid, the stable keeper’s lien is, practically speaking, no longer enforceable. In that case, you will need to file suit against the debtor to collect the unpaid board. This is why it is essential to obtain a written board agreement from every customer that contains the date you started boarding the horse, sets forth your fee for board, and includes an agreement that your customer will pay out-of-pocket expenses for care such as worming, farrier, supplements, and vet work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

Isnt there a time limit as well for claiming animals due to liens etc? 

Maybe the owner can contact Netposse- https://www.netposse.com/ - and see if they can help her get word out/see what legal options she has.

Good luck


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## tayloranngenevieve (Dec 31, 2013)

franknbeans said:


> Thanks for clarifying. From this, it sounds like it may be an old dispute over $$ owed. I am guessing here, but if that is the case, and your BO went and got the horses to sell them to try and recoup the debt, IMO is just plain wrong. If there was $$ owed, the horses should not have been allowed to leave in the first place. If, indeed, the BO went and got them for this reason and I was the owner-I would be calling the police, since that is stealing.
> 
> I am pretty sure there are 3 sides to this story, just as any other-perhaps even 4 in this case. The owner, the BO, the truth, and the OP. No offense, OP, but you have no idea who did what to whom, and neither do we.
> 
> I hope the horses are safe. THey do deserve better than all this "stuff".


But I never claimed to know everything... Why has this turned in to a question of legality? All I am saying is that if anyone sees the geldings, they could contact me to let me know they are safe. How many times do I have to say it!?

I'm getting really frustrated here. I am not trying to say I know everything. I am SIMPLY trying to find these horses, and I posted on here as many people here are knowledgable and many people are from NJ and I am hoping that SOMEONE has bought these horses from the auction and have given them good homes. 

I only want to know that they are safe. What's done is done. I am ONLY trying to look at the future, not the past.

It's none of my business what happened, I don't want to know what happened between my BO and their owner. I feel bad because if I'd known they were going to auction I may have helped the owner find the money to keep them. That's all. 

So if anyone has seen them, I'd like to be notified so I can let their owner know their whereabouts and that they are safe.


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

Taylor- I think we know you are trying to find them. The problem is this is an international forum. It is very unlikely that someone over the internet is going to know where they are.

The best thing you can do, is if you know the owner's name or where she lives, is to stop by and talk to her about it. If what the BO did was illegal, the owner would need to fill out a police report and the police could find the horses or at least find out who bought them from the auction. You could always go down to the police department with the owner as moral support. 

The best people in position to find those horses are the police. You may try calling the Camelot auction, but since you are not the horse's owner, you may not be able to get any information from them.

I'm sorry, but short of the police getting involved and looking for those horses, there is very little you can do. You may want to try contacting any rescues in the area, but it is a long shot. 

In general, finding a horse with such little information would be very difficult. For all we know, the BO could have lied and the horses went to a different auction than Camelot. 

Goodluck in your search.


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## tayloranngenevieve (Dec 31, 2013)

I've done all that I am able to do, and I posted on here knowing it might not help - but with the hope that it might. Isn't that why there's a Stolen Horse forum on here? to find missing horses? I'm just asking people in the NJ to keep an eye out.

I know its a long shot… I didn't expect so much criticism for trying to help these horses.


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

Its not so much criticism as free speech. Just gotta take it in stride. 

Everybody in here genuinely wants to help they just also like having the full picture and sometimes its not always conveyed in a practical easy to read manner (especially being a multi national site) and with high emotional topics such as this its even more touchy and sensitive for all involved.

Anyways good luck, hope the outcome is good and please keep us updated if you're willing


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