# Conformation On The Quarter Horse



## EmilyJoy

Hi,
Can anyone reply with what you would like to see in a quarter horse? 
Like explain the hip an all that...Maybe post a picture of what a very correct quarter horse is then post a picture of what the opposites are...example "This is a picture of a good hip....and this is what you do not want to see..." 

And the shoulders, what makes a fast quarter horse, a good jumper, cutter etc. in the breed? 

Why do you want a "butt" high horse? I all ways thought that was bad ( I mean butt high as in the hip is higher then the withers)

What would you look for in a yearling?..I know that they grow so much so it is hard to tell, but what would you absolutely NOT want to see in a weanling/yearing?

I was not looking to buy one, just curious :wink:
Thanks!


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## AQHSam

As a new owner of a QH, I would like this information broken down also.


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## Northernstar

I am a fairly new owner of my registered American Quarter Horse, but not an expert on all of your questions (there will be some experts that will reply to this thread, for sure!) - one thing I do know is that the Quarter Horse is generally a sprinter, used for 1/4 mile racing back around the pioneer days.... This piqued my curiosity, so looking at her now in the pasture, her butt is about even with her withers with her neck down grazing, and is large and rounded (but not overly) which is of course characteristic with the breed.


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## Northernstar

AQHSam said:


> As a new owner of a QH, I would like this information broken down also.


AQHSam, your avatar is striking! Do you know anything of the pedigree?


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## AQHSam

NorthernStar. Thank you very much. Sam melts my heart and gives me tingles every time I look at him. 

Here is a link to his pedigree. Ddf Sam I Am Quarter Horse


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## Northernstar

Very nice! I looked in earnest for anything on there possibly related to my mare, but no go - she's older than him, but I when I saw his star, I thought, maybe...!
Unfortunately I don't know how to attatch it, but since you're an AQHA member, you can see hers under, "Ms Northern Star". Her grandsire was Impressive, a world halter champion. Star is her barn name, and she's a healthy, nice backyard pleasure horse for me. Tomorrow is her 21st birthday, and she'll be getting lots of extra hugs, apples, and kisses!


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## EmilyJoy

Northernstar said:


> I am a fairly new owner of my registered American Quarter Horse, but not an expert on all of your questions (there will be some experts that will reply to this thread, for sure!) - one thing I do know is that the Quarter Horse is generally a sprinter, used for 1/4 mile racing back around the pioneer days.... This piqued my curiosity, so looking at her now in the pasture, her butt is about even with her withers with her neck down grazing, and is large and rounded (but not overly) which is of course characteristic with the breed.


 Thanks for your input:wink:

Yeah, my horse now (the one in the picture, it was taken when he was younger) has his butt about like what you're talking about... kinda...lol...almost... And he is fast...

That's another thing... How fast is fast for a quarter horse?

Does anybody have a good picture of what a good shoulder on a horse that is built for speed (sprinter) should look like?









Thanks for any advice!


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## PaintHorseMares

EmilyJoy said:


> Does anybody have a good picture of what a good shoulder on a horse that is built for speed (sprinter) should look like?


If you're looking for the speed part of a QH, you want to look at the rear, not the shoulder. The big butt and rear legs are what provide the quick acceleration.


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## EmilyJoy

Ok, show me your "ideal" speed butt


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## BarrelRacingLvr

I am a barrel racer so I might want a different built horse then some other QH owners.....

-Good big hip
-Shorter Back
-Good Slope to there Shoulder
-Long Underline
-Level (Not uphill or downhill built)
-Nice even hocks with his knees
-Low Hockset
-Good neck (not to short or long)


A well rounded horse that I see as Barrel Horse Conformation would be Bully Bullion










He has

-*Great Slope to his shoulder* (what you want to see in speed events)
-*Nice Big Hip* (power house to really use his hind end)
-*Shorter Back* (keeps him athletic and wouldn't interfere with his performance)
-*Good Underline* (Able to really reach)
-*Nice set neck*
-*Nice low hocks* (Able to get under himself and work)
-*Level *(but would like to see his hocks set just a TAD bit more even with Knee)
-I also would like to she a tad bit shorter pastern. 


And for a barrel horses there are things you do NOT want....such as a downhill horse. People who say that obviously have never ridden or know how a barrel horse should work. If a horse is downhill what are they going to be working off of more? There *front end* so they are not going to be able to get their hind end under themselves they need to to really work around the barrel. And is going to cause their knees to break down a lot faster from the jarring in the long run. 

You don't want a long back or a super short back....a long back would be like having a 18 wheeler turn sharp VS a Sports Car turn sharp...the Sports Car is going to turn a lot faster. Same with a short back, a horse with a short back is going to get caught up and loose a lot of bend in their ribcage causing them to run stiff. 


So you see the conformation Bully Bullion...now I am going to show you horses with some faults. Now I couldn't find a horse with all of the things or close so will be posting individual photos....

*Small Hip*- This horse has a much shorter hip then Bully Bullion does, so would have less power in the Hind End. 
*









Long Backed- *This horse has a long back and a small hip...









*Straight Shoulder-* Which will cause a short choppy stride and a rough ride. 









Those are some of the main ones to visualize.....

And I don't really start looking at a young horses conformation till they are at least 2yrs old because then their growing has some what evened out at one point. But I want to see the same as I would in a grown horse....

Hope this helped


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## Eolith

One of the things I've noticed about several QHs is that they've got these gorgeous solid bodies... but on spindly legs and teacup hooves. It just looks "off" to me. What lines tend to have more substance to the legs/feet? Are there certain disciplines that downplay or emphasize solid legs and feet?


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## QHriderKE

Here's a power butt:








She doesn't have great confo, but she's built for power. I'd own a hundred of horses like her if I could.

Now, this mare doesn't have anything that screams power or anything. She isn't built for instant speed like the mare above. But, this mare does have some speed, you just gotta build her up to it.









And this mare is built all around for speed and power.


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## BarrelRacingLvr

Eolith said:


> One of the things I've noticed about several QHs is that they've got these gorgeous solid bodies... but on spindly legs and teacup hooves. It just looks "off" to me. What lines tend to have more substance to the legs/feet? Are there certain disciplines that downplay or emphasize solid legs and feet?


Now that has to do with some of the bloodlines.......such as a lot of Halter bred/show horses have these big 16hh+ draft bodies on toothpick legs and triple ott feet. But if you look at roping, barrel, cutting, reining horses you see they have a lot more bone. I don't know why but it seems the halter world (I know not all) seem to like this big hideous beefed up horses on thin legs and small feet. We only have a few horses on our place that are a double ott.....the rest are in 1s or Otts and have BONE when we look at a horse to buy as a prospect or a broodie we look at bone, if they don't have bone or have small feet we run away. 

So like I said it has a lot to do with certain breeding.....and if a horse has a lot of run (more of a TB build running body) you will get he thin legs and little feet. But if you go down South to the big time QH races those horses are built like brick houses and solid with great bone and feet. 

So just depends on the individual horse....just like people some have bigger bone structure then others and is in every breed, not just QHs.


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## PaintHorseMares

BarrelRacingLvr said:


> Now that has to do with some of the bloodlines.......such as a lot of Halter bred/show horses have these big 16hh+ draft bodies on toothpick legs and triple ott feet. But if you look at roping, barrel, cutting, reining horses you see they have a lot more bone. I don't know why but it seems the halter world (I know not all) seem to like this big hideous beefed up horses on thin legs and small feet. We only have a few horses on our place that are a double ott.....the rest are in 1s or Otts and have BONE when we look at a horse to buy as a prospect or a broodie we look at bone, if they don't have bone or have small feet we run away.
> 
> So like I said it has a lot to do with certain breeding.....and if a horse has a lot of run (more of a TB build running body) you will get he thin legs and little feet. But if you go down South to the big time QH races those horses are built like brick houses and solid with great bone and feet.
> 
> So just depends on the individual horse....just like people some have bigger bone structure then others and is in every breed, not just QHs.


Yes, I've seen some of those toothpick leg/tiny hoof horses...

Our mare, Mandy, has a very nice 'classic', muscled QH body, big butt and chest/shoulders, solid powerful legs, great feet, and a pretty good bloodline. Sorry she's not squared up...we were actually teasing her the day I took these.

Ultimate Fleet Paint


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## cowgirl928

*QH confo*

Different QH are built and bred for different things. These are photos of my QH mare I owned quite a while ago. She is huge, built like a tank, and she needed to be. She is a cow horse, so she is fast and quick to cut and chase, and she is thick and strong to rope and hold 'em down. Many people thought she was a gelding poor girl...:lol: 

(excuse me for not having good pics-these are about 3/4 years old and I don't own her anymore)


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## EmilyJoy

BarrelRacingLvr said:


> I am a barrel racer so I might want a different built horse then some other QH owners.....
> 
> -Good big hip
> -Shorter Back
> -Good Slope to there Shoulder
> -Long Underline
> -Level (Not uphill or downhill built)
> -Nice even hocks with his knees
> -Low Hockset
> -Good neck (not to short or long)
> 
> 
> A well rounded horse that I see as Barrel Horse Conformation would be Bully Bullion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He has
> 
> -*Great Slope to his shoulder* (what you want to see in speed events)
> -*Nice Big Hip* (power house to really use his hind end)
> -*Shorter Back* (keeps him athletic and wouldn't interfere with his performance)
> -*Good Underline* (Able to really reach)
> -*Nice set neck*
> -*Nice low hocks* (Able to get under himself and work)
> -*Level *(but would like to see his hocks set just a TAD bit more even with Knee)
> -I also would like to she a tad bit shorter pastern.
> 
> 
> And for a barrel horses there are things you do NOT want....such as a downhill horse. People who say that obviously have never ridden or know how a barrel horse should work. If a horse is downhill what are they going to be working off of more? There *front end* so they are not going to be able to get their hind end under themselves they need to to really work around the barrel. And is going to cause their knees to break down a lot faster from the jarring in the long run.
> 
> You don't want a long back or a super short back....a long back would be like having a 18 wheeler turn sharp VS a Sports Car turn sharp...the Sports Car is going to turn a lot faster. Same with a short back, a horse with a short back is going to get caught up and loose a lot of bend in their ribcage causing them to run stiff.
> 
> 
> So you see the conformation Bully Bullion...now I am going to show you horses with some faults. Now I couldn't find a horse with all of the things or close so will be posting individual photos....
> 
> *Small Hip*- This horse has a much shorter hip then Bully Bullion does, so would have less power in the Hind End.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Long Backed- *This horse has a long back and a small hip...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Straight Shoulder-* Which will cause a short choppy stride and a rough ride.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those are some of the main ones to visualize.....
> 
> And I don't really start looking at a young horses conformation till they are at least 2yrs old because then their growing has some what evened out at one point. But I want to see the same as I would in a grown horse....
> 
> Hope this helped


YES it did help! Also what about the less then desirable necks on the pictures you posted?

Also to QHrider the horse in the second picture does that horse have a long back?

Thanks all, this has really helped me "see" the difference, and I hope it has helped others too. I've never really "seen" the difference,so I didn't really know what to look for.. This has been really great keep it up!

Cowgirl92- At first I thought your mare WAS a draft! Could she run fast?


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## cowgirl928

girl that horse had speed and stamina. she could work cows all day long and be ready at 7 a.m. the next morning rarin to go. I actually ran a qh race in our town with her and won 1st place one year and 2nd place the next LOL

The neck of a qh needs to be thick, muscular, and tie in well to their chest. The horse in the 2nd photo has all the muscling on the top of the neck, muscling needs to be throughout the neck to provide better movement, horse in the 3rd photo has a nice neck, but her back is long and she has a small hip, so she wouldn't be able to reach under herself that well and would therefore be slower. Because of her lacking a large hip and the nice qh butt, she also lacks power. If you ever see a qh take off at a full run you will see that they rock back onto their haunches and more or less "launch off", with their first stride being a huge one. Watch some qh races or rodeo events and you will see what I mean. If you want to see the qh butt in action, go to a rodeo! lol

K so the horse in the last photo has wayyy to straight of a shoulder for a qh. Qh usually travel in 2 ways: they either have a huge stride from using their hindquarters, so they kinda "gallumph" along, or they have the nice chill movement. The horse in the 3rd photo would have a short choppy stride, and his front legs wouldnt be able to reach out as far as fast for him to really kick it in his qh butt and move. He has a nicely muscled neck, but its a bit short for my liking, and its also kinda skinny if you get what im saying. It makes him look out of proportion- skinny neck, big head in comparison to the neck, and quite honestly that horse looks like an awkward qh/tb cross to me lol but dont take my word as truth, im not the best confo except when it comes to qh because thats what i was raised around and for. I know what a good working horse looks like and thats about it


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## Chopsticks

Barrelracinglvr is being modest by not posting a pic of her horse. I'm linking to her thread as I think this horse screams "what you want in a QH"

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-conformation-critique/conformation-critique-116764/


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## EmilyJoy

Hey I found this youtube video, that might help some of the others that wanted to know about the quarter horse conformation...
Reining & Cutting Horse Conformation... Good Or Bad? - YouTube 

I just watched it today. Tell me what you think? I know it's for a horse that is a reiner/cutter but someof the stuff he points out applies to all quarter horses right?


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## EmilyJoy

SV Farms Paint Horses
Is this horse what you're talking about when you say "spindly legs and teacup hoofs?"

sorry 'bout the double post


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## SkyeDawn

It really depends on what discipline you want your quarter horse for. Racing quarter horse? Cutting? Reining? Team Penning? Barrels? Halter? Jumping?

Honestly, you want a different conformation for different disciplines. As far as the 'perfect quarter horse', I don't know.


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## Eolith

EmilyJoy said:


> SV Farms Paint Horses
> Is this horse what you're talking about when you say "spindly legs and teacup hoofs?"
> 
> sorry 'bout the double post


That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about! :lol:


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## EmilyJoy

SkyeDawn said:


> It really depends on what discipline you want your quarter horse for. Racing quarter horse? Cutting? Reining? Team Penning? Barrels? Halter? Jumping?
> 
> Honestly, you want a different conformation for different disciplines. As far as the 'perfect quarter horse', I don't know.


 Yeah I know that there is a big difference between all of the different types of quarter horses. I just wanted to know the pointers... etc. of what makes a good quarter horse...no matter what he/she excels in. I wanted the terms broken down, and to be honest I really just want to train my eyes for the good/bads in the horses... Each person will have their ideals, but all will probably lean toward a horse that can get himself around easily.

About the halter horses..lol you just have to ask yourself will this horse REALLY carry himself and me with out putting a pretty heavy load on those legs? 
Do people really ride this kind of horse? What IS the point of these horses? I mean they show them for what? Their excellence at looking like a greyhound x beef? lol lol:


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## DressageDreamer

My 10 year old AQHA mare has a bit of a longer back but is thick boned with a large butt and wide chest. Her jaw is like a stallion's. I know she can't be a barrel horse because of her back length, but can she do pole bending?


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## EmilyJoy

Lol I don't know...I'd post a picture...Maybe we can learn some pointers that way, by listening to what the experts have to say about your horse

I thought about posting my horse on here, but I don't know what they mean by "squaring" up a horse and how to do it?


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## DressageDreamer

Yeah I was trying to figure out how to do that.  Here goes nothing. These are not the best pics of her, but all I can find right now. He legs don't look near as thick in these pictures as they do in real life.


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## EmilyJoy

Wow it does look like she has a long back...But don't go by me I am new to this too

I've heard you want a quarter horse with short ears, wide eyes and a pretty head...got an example? I realize the extreme for the ears would be a mule... lol

A side note does anybody like quarter x arabs as well as just plain quarter horses? I love the quarter horses x arab that look a little like a arab but way stockier... They just seem a bit elegant-er (lol like I always imagined the "Black Stallion to be)

Are they (the crosses) going to be as popular as a riding horse as a breed by itself? Are they hot tempered?

I was just curious.


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## Corporal

QH's come with lots of different bloodlines and this is why they are such a versatile breed bc different builds can master different disciplines. 
I suggest that you start by studying basic good conformation.
Conformation of horse , horse and pony conformation explained
I used to enjoy "Conformation Clinic" in "Practical Horseman," and here is a link from "Horse and Rider."
Test Your Eye for Horse Conformation
*PLEASE understand that it is MHO* that anything overdeveloped on any breed of horse may specialize that horse to a certain skill, 
but it doesn't necessarily make a better athlete.
Since I want to sound like an "equal opportunity critic", LOL, I have never liked that breeders have put a little hoof on QH's, 
who are often weightier than other "light" breeds of the same height.
I'm not sold on the overdeveloped butt, a recent phenomenon, as a conformation plus. Certainly, "Wimpy", the original QH sire didn't have this
http://www.king-ranch.com/images/photo_quarter_horses1.jpg
yet he was a very _balanced_ horse, without extra high withers, and you can see that he could stride under very well. 
Back legs that are too straight make for an uncomfortable ride.
If you search the Horse photos to see those QH's that you like, ask yourself WHAT it is that you like about their build. My QH, 
"Ro Go Bar" (1982-2009, RIP) was built downhill for racing (his grandsire was "Go Man Go", a QH racehorse) and he spent his life 
wearing out his front legs, which, btw, were minus the characteristic bulging QH forearm:








He had a very nice slow trot, but had trouble balancing at the canter.
One more thing--look for legs where the toes point foreward and short cannon bones that help carry weight.
Just MHO's, folks--dont' throw that brick by your foot at me, pplllleeeeezzzz!!!!!
**Corporal runs for cover!!**


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## DrumRunner

Hickory is a pretty good example of a nice QH, he is more foundation built because he's 87% foundation bred..short, very stocky, lots of muscle..He doesn't look or act his age at all, he's 22..He could have better hocks but that's really his only "flaw" ..He definitely has the QH baby doll dead..

















He's on the right.


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## EmilyJoy

Corporal said:


> QH's come with lots of different bloodlines and this is why they are such a versatile breed bc different builds can master different disciplines.
> I suggest that you start by studying basic good conformation.
> Conformation of horse , horse and pony conformation explained
> I used to enjoy "Conformation Clinic" in "Practical Horseman," and here is a link from "Horse and Rider."
> Test Your Eye for Horse Conformation *I love the conformation clinic!!!I saw it before on the web...Although now it seems like they have the same horses over and over again so it isn't much fun...That is what we should have on here!!!*
> *PLEASE understand that it is MHO* that anything overdeveloped on any breed of horse may specialize that horse to a certain skill,
> but it doesn't necessarily make a better athlete.
> Since I want to sound like an "equal opportunity critic", LOL, I have never liked that breeders have put a little hoof on QH's,
> who are often weightier than other "light" breeds of the same height.
> I'm not sold on the overdeveloped butt, a recent phenomenon, as a conformation plus. Certainly, "Wimpy", the original QH sire didn't have this
> http://www.king-ranch.com/images/photo_quarter_horses1.jpg
> yet he was a very _balanced_ horse, without extra high withers, and you can see that he could stride under very well.
> Back legs that are too straight make for an uncomfortable ride.
> If you search the Horse photos to see those QH's that you like, ask yourself WHAT it is that you like about their build.*That's my problem...some horses really look good to me but I can't tell you why cuz I don't know...They just seem "put together" That is also why I wanted to know about the "butt" on the quarter horse, because I always thought they were bad... But they're not and I wanted to know why and what to look for in a good "butt"lol* My QH,
> "Ro Go Bar" (1982-2009, RIP) was built downhill for racing (his grandsire was "Go Man Go", a QH racehorse) and he spent his life
> wearing out his front legs, which, btw, were minus the characteristic bulging QH forearm:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He had a very nice slow trot, but had trouble balancing at the canter.
> One more thing--look for legs where the toes point foreward and short cannon bones that help carry weight.
> Just MHO's, folks--dont' throw that brick by your foot at me, pplllleeeeezzzz!!!!!
> **Corporal runs for cover!!**


my reply is in bold green above...

Do they actually use halter horses for cutting etc.?

Drum Runner- Do you have a side picture of your horse?

Also another confusing thing for me is they say to look for balance the neck is supposed to be balanced to the body hip...Is the neck actually supposed to be the same as the back and the hip? there is no way a hip could be as long as the neck is there? Could you go over that?

Can someone show an extreme case of long cannons,pasterns, and a VERY straight shoulder?


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## PaintHorseMares

DressageDreamer said:


> My 10 year old AQHA mare has a bit of a longer back but is thick boned with a large butt and wide chest. Her jaw is like a stallion's. I know she can't be a barrel horse because of her back length, but can she do pole bending?


Don't count your horse out of any discipline without trying!

Years ago, people told me over and over that our mare, Angel, who is long backed would never be good in the 'ranch' disciplines, but she is a very confident, calm horse with good cow sense and did very well in team penning.


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## DrumRunner

Halter horses probably won't ever make a cutter..they are too top heavy with tiny feet to balance and support all that weight in that type of discipline. 

I'll post more pictures of Hickory when I get home..I'm on my phone now.


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## EmilyJoy

DrumRunner said:


> Halter horses probably won't ever make a cutter..they are too top heavy with tiny feet to balance and support all that weight in that type of discipline.
> 
> I'll post more pictures of Hickory when I get home..I'm on my phone now.


 So they get the halter horse trained they may/may not win...then what happens? Do they use him for anything after that? Trail riding?


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## DressageDreamer

PaintHorseMares said:


> Don't count your horse out of any discipline without trying!
> 
> Years ago, people told me over and over that our mare, Angel, who is long backed would never be good in the 'ranch' disciplines, but she is a very confident, calm horse with good cow sense and did very well in team penning.


Thanks! I have had people tell me that Desi is too long in the back to cut the barrels. Of course I am not planning on trying for pro...just local events for fun. I thought Pole Bending might be better for her, but wasn't sure. I guess if I am doing it for fun....what difference does it make? :wink:


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## MN Tigerstripes

Emily, this is a fairly good example of squaring up:











You need to teach your horse "whoa" and how to stand. It helps to have someone else hold them. 

Soda is a QH, I've been told he's very "typey" His legs are a little twiggy for my taste as are his hooves, but he's not quite as delicate as he appears..


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## QOS

Little bay horse is hubby's 93.3% Foundation Quarter Horse - Sargent San Peppy. 

He is a grandson of Colonel Freckles on the top and San Peppy horses on the bottom. This picture was taken the day we brought him home. He has the smoothest lope I have EVER rode and I used to ride a horse with western pleasure points out the wazootie. Sarge can spin on a dime, go all day, rides like a dream and is super smart and very cowy and quick on his feet. He wishes he still got to chase cows but he doesn't get to as often as he would like!

The big sorrel horse, Dashing Big Red, was my horse until I gave him to a lady on this board. Red is by Dashing Val, who is by Dash For Cash. Red has a Register of Merit in Racing and a speed index of 98. Red is FAST as all get out. Hahahaha. Sarge is the dominant horse but couldn't catch Red on his best day and Red's worst. Red is a little down hill as a good racer should be - but has ridiculously small feet - he is the Rhett Butler of feet. He won 2 races, a few 2nd's and 3rds, and was in the money for many of his races. He raced 20 times. His new owner is doing dressage and going to go into eventing on him. He loves to jump!

Biscuit is a QH but is a longer than Sarge - not as long as Red - in the body. This picture he was heavier muscled than he is now. We have done tons of the long slow distance riding and he has trimmed up considerably. He is fast as all get out, strong and quick on his feet. 

They all three are QH but just a little different. QH's are great for their versatility !


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## SkyeDawn

EmilyJoy said:


> my reply is in bold green above...
> 
> *Do they actually use halter horses for cutting etc.?*
> 
> Drum Runner- Do you have a side picture of your horse?
> 
> Also another confusing thing for me is they say to look for balance the neck is supposed to be balanced to the body hip...Is the neck actually supposed to be the same as the back and the hip? there is no way a hip could be as long as the neck is there? Could you go over that?
> 
> Can someone show an extreme case of long cannons,pasterns, and a VERY straight shoulder?


Noooooooo, straight bred halter horses can't even be ridden. Or shouldn't be, I should say.


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## Chopsticks

EmilyJoy said:


> Wow it does look like she has a long back...But don't go by me I am new to this too
> 
> I've heard you want a quarter horse with short ears, wide eyes and a pretty head...got an example? I realize the extreme for the ears would be a mule... lol
> 
> A side note does anybody like quarter x arabs as well as just plain quarter horses? I love the quarter horses x arab that look a little like a arab but way stockier... They just seem a bit elegant-er (lol like I always imagined the "Black Stallion to be)
> 
> Are they (the crosses) going to be as popular as a riding horse as a breed by itself? Are they hot tempered?
> 
> I was just curious.


I have a quarab and I LOVE him. He is older now but man can he turn on a dime. One day for fun I tried a barrel exercise on him where you canter along the rail and then turn them in towards the rail for a tight change of direction and he just did it on the first try like a pro. I might move him to actual barrels next for fun but he turns so tight I almost lost my seat! Here's a pic.


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## SkyeDawn

Straight shoulder and long pasterns. Pictures from google.

ETA: Balance in the horse: http://www.horsekeeping.com/horse_conformation/conformation_evaluation_balance.htm

Still looking for information on sectioning a horse in thirds (neck, back and hip)


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## DressageDreamer

Pretty horse Chopsticks! Love the dappling


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## Poseidon

EmilyJoy said:


> So they get the halter horse trained they may/may not win...then what happens? Do they use him for anything after that? Trail riding?


They more or less go to shows to stand around and look pretty for most of their lives and if they're actually "good" at it, they are retired to breeding until they ultimately get navicular from the disproportion of their bodies to their feet. If you didn't notice, I am also on the list of folks who does not like the current fad in halter horses nor do I understand why it became that way. 

Like DrumRunner, I have a horse that is 87% FQH bred (although she's registered APHA). She has a longer back, but she has a decent shoulder and hip. I love her legs and hooves. Her legs are thicker and straight and her hooves are pretty big. I don't know what size shoes she wears because I've never had her shod, but I know I measured her for boots once and she needed a 3.


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## EmilyJoy

MN Tigerstripes said:


> Emily, this is a fairly good example of squaring up:
> You need to teach your horse "whoa" and how to stand. It helps to have someone else hold them.
> 
> Soda is a QH, I've been told he's very "typey" His legs are a little twiggy for my taste as are his hooves, but he's not quite as delicate as he appears..


When you say "how to stand" is that basically with his feet side by side each other? ( hind feet next to each other, and front the same)?

Is his neck a bit thick? Does it tie into his shoulder high or low? I've still been trying to get a hang of where the neck is supposed to come out.

QOS- When you mean a speed index of 98 how fast is that in mph?
You've got great horses, and I like the coloring of the first one...

Skyedawn-"Noooooooo, straight bred halter horses can't even be ridden. Or shouldn't be, I should say." Then why do they?...........Oh I see...not... lol Yikes that horse has BAD feet ouch! I think I've got that figured out...

Pose- You'd think they'd breed the horses up so that they could actually function....

How is the neck supposed to tie into the chest?


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## missnashvilletime

Poseidon said:


> They more or less go to shows to stand around and look pretty for most of their lives and if they're actually "good" at it, they are retired to breeding until they ultimately get navicular from the disproportion of their bodies to their feet. If you didn't notice, I am also on the list of folks who does not like the current fad in halter horses nor do I understand why it became that way.
> 
> Like DrumRunner, I have a horse that is 87% FQH bred (although she's registered APHA). She has a longer back, but she has a decent shoulder and hip. I love her legs and hooves. Her legs are thicker and straight and her hooves are pretty big. I don't know what size shoes she wears because I've never had her shod, but I know I measured her for boots once and she needed a 3.


I agree whole heartedly! I'm showing my colt in halter and everyone's like "you need to feed him more so he'll grow he's too small for a two year old halter horse, etc"
My only problem with that is I want to actually use him when he's older, I can't do that if I founder him to grow into an adult before he's ready :/ I literally got chewed out on another forum for saying I was showing him halter...I just don't understand, I think it's a good experience for him since I can't ride him yet.

And for the OP quarter horses didn't used to have such a variation on build and conformation. The breed was set up so you could use one horse for several events! I think AQHA has lost some of that over the years, heck most QHs at the beginning were 14.2-15.3 ish but I feel good conformation; no matter the breed is still good conformation


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## EmilyJoy

One quick question is it ok to go to any horse ad grab a picture and post in on here? Or is that not a good idea? I was just going to ask questions on them...


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## EmilyJoy

maybe it'd be better to use my horse...


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## DrumRunner

I don't any good shots of him from the side..like conformation shots..I do have these few..He looks a tad long backed. 

He was 21 here


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## EmilyJoy

Was he slightly over at the knees?


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## QOS

Thanks so much. Sarge is a pretty boy and has a metallic sheen to his coat - even his thick winter coat shines coppery!!! 

As for the speed index - it is a little different at each track as it is a compilation of times ran on that particular track. Quarter Horses can hit speeds of 30-45 or more and he did win the race!!!


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## DrumRunner

Not really, his legs are straight..I think that one picture is just wonky or something..He IS fat though..


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## EmilyJoy

yeah he looks a little plump...lol

When you were to buy a weanling from someone can you tell alot about how he's going to turn out by looking at his parents? I mean people buy weanlings/yearlings all the time is there some rhyme or reason to it?

So you want,

straight legs
low hocks (?)
a neck that is low and thin(?)
a neck that comes out of the chest not to high but not to low..(?)
A power butt..
A nice head that attached cleanly at the throat latch..
Small ears (?)
Wide apart eyes...
what else?

If you had to give a little on any of the conformation which would you chose?


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## MN Tigerstripes

Emily, by how to stand I mean how to stand still without someone right by his head. You don't want their legs perfectly lined up with each other, preferebly you have the near side ones straight (square) and the off side ones a little offset. See how Soda's hind legs are? 

As for his neck, it isn't thick or low set as far as I can tell. If it was any thinner he'd look very wrong. I believe it's set correctly for a QH and his build. Others are welcome to rip him apart if they'd like to help you learn, he's been critiqued before and my feelings aren't hurt easily. :lol:


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## Corporal

This might help a little. FIRST, perfect conformation specimins are RARE. You shop for the best you can find and 
overlook flaws that you can live with. Personally I will take a horse 
with a conformation flaw and great temperment over a horse more perfectly put together but bad tempered.
Here are pics of my two 5yo geldings, different breeds. The first is gaited (Kentucky Mountain) 








Notice the high withers and a longer back than you WOULDN'T want want in a QH. Also his croup drops off. He is more TWH in his build than KMH. 
He moves like a TB, slower to start and turn and he doesn't do a slide stop.
The 2nd is my adopted, but unregistered QH.

















Notice his back is shorter. QH's can look more camped out behind than many other breeds but still be able to 
stride under well enough for a smooth ride. One picture earlier in this thread shows too high withers, 
which is unacceptable in any breed. 
"Buster", my QH, is typical of the breed. 
He has a comfortable slow trot and can stop and turn on a dime.
It is work to collect a horse's frame. He/she will do it naturally when crossing terrain that requires it and people can develop collection. 
Horses will naturally put 2/3 of their entire weight onto their front 2 legs. This is bc his head and neck are weighty, 
and they are lazy...like we are. Training your horse to "collect" is training him to carry his weight and your weight evenly on all four legs, 
just like a square table distributes weight evenly on all four of the table legs. Collection is physically demanding, 
but if you have a horse built downhill, it is just that much MORE difficult for the horse. 
The same is with a horse that is camped out or the back legs are too straight.
I'm afraid that developing your eye for conformation is going to take time. I loved getting my copy of "Practical Horseman" every month 
(when I had a subscription) and I studied the 3 horses's pictures in the Conformation Clinic until I started to 
understand the expert's comments. 
The pasterns need a decent angle. I think I remember that farriers trim the front hooves to create a 45 degree angle 
and the back hooves to a 50 degree angle, and 
both should carry through the pasterns. There is a lot to studying conformation.

Initially I couldn't see good from poor.
Another way to tell is to find horsey friends, judge their horse's conformation and then ask how their horses ride to see 
if you are correct in your judgement.
Happy studying! =D


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## EmilyJoy

Corporal said:


> This might help a little. FIRST, perfect conformation specimins are RARE. You shop for the best you can find and
> overlook flaws that you can live with. Personally I will take a horse
> with a conformation flaw and great temperment over a horse more perfectly put together but bad tempered.
> Here are pics of my two 5yo geldings, different breeds. The first is gaited (Kentucky Mountain)
> 
> Notice the high withers and a longer back than you WOULDN'T want want in a QH. Also his croup drops off. He is more TWH in his build than KMH.
> He moves like a TB, slower to start and turn and he doesn't do a slide stop.
> The 2nd is my adopted, but unregistered QH.
> 
> 
> 
> Notice his back is shorter. QH's can look more camped out behind than many other breeds but still be able to
> stride under well enough for a smooth ride. One picture earlier in this thread shows too high withers,
> which is unacceptable in any breed.
> "Buster", my QH, is typical of the breed.
> He has a comfortable slow trot and can stop and turn on a dime.
> It is work to collect a horse's frame. He/she will do it naturally when crossing terrain that requires it and people can develop collection.
> Horses will naturally put 2/3 of their entire weight onto their front 2 legs. This is bc his head and neck are weighty,
> and they are lazy...like we are. Training your horse to "collect" is training him to carry his weight and your weight evenly on all four legs,
> just like a square table distributes weight evenly on all four of the table legs. Collection is physically demanding,
> but if you have a horse built downhill, it is just that much MORE difficult for the horse.
> The same is with a horse that is camped out or the back legs are too straight.
> I'm afraid that developing your eye for conformation is going to take time. I loved getting my copy of "Practical Horseman" every month
> (when I had a subscription) and I studied the 3 horses's pictures in the Conformation Clinic until I started to
> understand the expert's comments.
> The pasterns need a decent angle. I think I remember that farriers trim the front hooves to create a 45 degree angle
> and the back hooves to a 50 degree angle, and
> both should carry through the pasterns. There is a lot to studying conformation.
> 
> Initially I couldn't see good from poor.
> Another way to tell is to find horsey friends, judge their horse's conformation and then ask how their horses ride to see
> if you are correct in your judgement.
> Happy studying! =D


Thanks for your input. I've been working on the conformation thing for a while. Some horses really stick out to me as really put together, but I can't explain it in terms (neck ties really good/hips big-long etc.) And this is really helping me...I also wanted to get familiar with the goods/bads of the quarter horse. I want to know their faults and what makes a really good horse. So I can judge a Quarter horses faults/and good points to tell if I like him or not... I do understand that all horses are not perfect, 
I know that, but I do want to know what is wrong with him and if it will affect him, so if I ever get another horse I can know that when a horse appeals to me WHAT appeals to me about the horse...ya know?

I'm not looking to get a horse..lol... I already have one to practice on...I'm just shall we say "curious" :wink:

Tigerstripes- Thanks for the info....And the permission to tear your horse apart...lol..I'll have to look at him again and see what I can judge about him, and you'll have to give me feedback on if I'm right or not.:wink:

Thanks everyone...! I hope this is helping someone other then me...If you have any other questions feel free to ask...I might learn something from other peoples answers to your questions...

Ok I've another question that's still hanging around in my mind... Can ya get me a picture of a REALLY short hip and a really long one? I think I know the difference but I'm not totally sure...


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## MN Tigerstripes

Here's an article with some drawings: 

http://www.ker.com/library/advances/116.pdf

http://cru.cahe.wsu.edu/cepublications/eb1613/eb1613.pdf

And here is the AQHA standards per their website: 

www.aqha.com/~/media/FDDB1ACBFF23430E99122269EB25448C.ashx


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## EmilyJoy

Tigerstripes, Thank-you!!!!!! That is some really good info. I read through it and am coping it off to study it... Thanks!:wave::happydance::thumbsup::clap:


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## smrobs

EmilyJoy said:


> I've heard you want a quarter horse with short ears, wide eyes and a pretty head...got an example? I realize the extreme for the ears would be a mule... lol.


Denny is a perfect example of an ideal QH head, it is relatively small and well made, with small, well shaped ears, and wide-set eyes that are relatively large.





















EmilyJoy said:


> So they get the halter horse trained they may/may not win...then what happens? Do they use him for anything after that? Trail riding?


Like others have said, so many of the current "popular" halter horses are virtually useless for any kind of riding work. Many of them don't even stay sound under their own weight, let alone that of a rider.

As for ideal conformation, like others said, that will greatly depend on what you want to do. I have some customers that breed amazing QHs that have spectacular bone/hoof structure and often have near perfect conformation.

For example, this filly would be well suited to cattle work, ranch work, roping, and other similar disciplines. She isn't too tall, has a short back, good shoulder and hip angles, and her legs are straight and strong with good angled hocks (sorry, I know the picture isn't square but it was her first day here and she'd never been handled before so I snapped a pic where I could)









And this gelding was suited much the same. His legs were less than ideal though. He was back at the knee and a little too posty legged on the back with fairly upright pasterns all the way around.









Those two show a very nice, powerhouse, QH butt.

Whereas these 2 mares were more suited to speed events like barrels. See the longer backs, the longer legs, the well angled shoulders and hips and the all-around leaner figure.


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## EmilyJoy

Thanks, I'm beginning to see what a power butts looks like...

Let me ask another question on the last horses you posted, are _any _of the quarter horses supposed to have a butt higher then the withers?

Between the top two horses I like the filly better.
Between the bottom two I like the last one better..

I thought the last/first one had an ideal Quarter horse head... your opinion?


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## smrobs

Being downhill (butt higher than withers) is not a desired trait, but it is so common these days that it's virtually impossible to find a QH that isn't downhill to some degree.

You have a good eye, of the stockier horses, the filly is much better conformed...and just better looking all the way around. As for the bottom 2, the brown mare had a much better body, I just wish she hadn't been such a raging psycho witch LOL.

As for their heads, yes, both the bay filly and the brown filly have very nicely made heads that would be considered ideal.


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## EmilyJoy

They look very nice! The gelding just looks less appealing for some reason... And the mare under the gelding looks a little long?


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## smrobs

Yeah, the gelding was one of their crop out type horses. For whatever reason, he was born less than attractive with his bad legs, straighter shoulder, and coarse head. Just goes to show how much variation can happen even within the same gene pool. 2 of the other horses I posted were full sisters of his and the other was a half sister.

The sorrel mare is one of those horses that is a perfect example of a horse that has a longer back that is still in the realm of acceptable. Horses like her are usually the ones that can really stretch out and cover some serious ground at a run. However, if she had been much longer, then her back would have been considered weak because of it's length.


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## EmilyJoy

When you mean "psycho", is that in bolting type stuff? She (the bottom one) really reminds me of my horse, lol maybe that is why she appeals to me... My horse used to like to bolt and it got pretty scary but she's a lot better, now that I've done some ground work with her...

I'm kinda confused on the stifle and the placement, it hasn't clicked with me on where it should be etc. Can someone enlighten me?


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## smrobs

She was a psycho in the sense that she would go along perfectly for a minute or an hour or a day under saddle, then she would spook violently at absolutely nothing. I managed to get her over her tendency to bolt, but if she was fresh, the spook would trigger a bucking fit. If I let her sit without work for 2-3 days, she would be 10 times worse. That's why she's so fit in the picture, I was loping her about 5 miles a day in the summer heat at that point just to keep her semi-rideable.


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## wishes4kissez

EmilyJoy said:


> Hi,
> Can anyone reply with what you would like to see in a quarter horse?
> Like explain the hip an all that...Maybe post a picture of what a very correct quarter horse is then post a picture of what the opposites are...example "This is a picture of a good hip....and this is what you do not want to see..."
> 
> And the shoulders, what makes a fast quarter horse, a good jumper, cutter etc. in the breed?
> 
> Why do you want a "butt" high horse? I all ways thought that was bad ( I mean butt high as in the hip is higher then the withers)
> 
> What would you look for in a yearling?..I know that they grow so much so it is hard to tell, but what would you absolutely NOT want to see in a weanling/yearing?
> 
> I was not looking to buy one, just curious :wink:
> Thanks!


I think it would depend heavily on what the horse was bred to do and what you planned on doing with it. Quarter horses are bred to all kinds of things and what they are bred for is going to have an impact on how you want them built for example a reiner and a racing quarter horse probably arent going to look too similar and people looking for a prospect in each discipline are going to look for very different things.


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## GotaDunQH

wishes4kissez said:


> I think it would depend heavily on what the horse was bred to do and what you planned on doing with it. Quarter horses are bred to all kinds of things and what they are bred for is going to have an impact on how you want them built for example a reiner and a racing quarter horse probably arent going to look too similar and people looking for a prospect in each discipline are going to look for very different things.


Like this post best of all! Quarter Horses have become extremely specialized in the past couple of decades....according to event/discipline. Not only is a certain conformation desired for these events/discipline but bloodlines too, because THAT is where the conformation and mind set come from. So in other words, what I look for in a WP horse is different from what I would look for in an HUS horse, a timed event horse etc.


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## EmilyJoy

I just wanted to know what a quarter horse should look like and what it shouldn't look like ( defects that you wouldn't want no matter what the type, regardless of what it is bred for.. Like you wouldn't want a warmblood butt on a quarter horse, you wouldn't want posty legs, ewe neck, long back, etc.

What would you want for a reg riding horse? would you want a WP horse?


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## EmilyJoy

Can any quarter horse work cattle regardless of whether he/she excels in it?

I've got a quarter horse that I'd like to use for cattle a bit...Any horse can catch on right?


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## smrobs

EmilyJoy said:


> I just wanted to know what a quarter horse should look like and what it shouldn't look like ( defects that you wouldn't want no matter what the type, regardless of what it is bred for.. Like you wouldn't want a warmblood butt on a quarter horse, you wouldn't want posty legs, ewe neck, long back, etc.
> 
> What would you want for a reg riding horse? would you want a WP horse?


Most actual conformational faults are pretty universal across the species. Calf knees are not desirable no matter if you are talking about QH or TWH or drafts, neither are post legs, ewe neck, offset knees, upright pasterns, etc. Stuff like chest width, where the neck ties in to the body, and the angle of the croup, among other things, tend to differ a bit depending on the breed and individual preference. Arabs tend to be flatter crouped than other breeds, as do some TBs. ASBs and fresians tend to have necks that tie in very high to their shoulders and come out very upright. A neck like that is undesireable in stock horse breeds.

Personally, I wouldn't want a WP type horse as my regular riding horse. I prefer the short, stocky horses that have speed and quickness. But, like I said, thats a personal preference. There are many other people out there that have WP types as everyday horses and love them.



EmilyJoy said:


> Can any quarter horse work cattle regardless of whether he/she excels in it?
> 
> I've got a quarter horse that I'd like to use for cattle a bit...Any horse can catch on right?


Yes, any horse can be taught to work cattle. They may never be great at it, but most will learn what is expected of them and give it their best shot. The biggest deciding factor will be how adept _you_ are at working cattle. Because some horses have no natural sense of where they should be or when they should move, they depend on the rider to tell them what to do and when to do it. If the rider teaches them the wrong move or the right move at the wrong moment, then that's what the horse will learn and they will do the same wrong move every time.


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## EmilyJoy

I think I could easily get better at cattle if I had an idea of how to do it(by cattle I mean a few steers and milk cows.. no John Wayne cattle herds) I manly use him to try and round up a few head and chase them back into where they belong...I'm not good enough nor is the horse, to cut them out...etc...It'd be nice though!

I would like to train him in cows but for right now I am focusing on his ground work...I've just noticed in the pasture when he's loose he can do some pretty good "wheeling" (roll-back?) by himself...

I just learned about the croup in horses, that Arabians tend to have flatter ones (endurance)and quarter horses more angled ( sprint). Something I never knew about, and something I now look for when I'm looking at horses... whether they are more the sprinty type or the endurance type...

I guess you learn something new every day!

A question on the WP horses...Are they your more slim built quarter horses? 

Thanks!


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## GotaDunQH

EmilyJoy said:


> I think I could easily get better at cattle if I had an idea of how to do it(by cattle I mean a few steers and milk cows.. no John Wayne cattle herds) I manly use him to try and round up a few head and chase them back into where they belong...I'm not good enough nor is the horse, to cut them out...etc...It'd be nice though!
> 
> I would like to train him in cows but for right now I am focusing on his ground work...I've just noticed in the pasture when he's loose he can do some pretty good "wheeling" (roll-back?) by himself...
> 
> I just learned about the croup in horses, that Arabians tend to have flatter ones (endurance)and quarter horses more angled ( sprint). Something I never knew about, and something I now look for when I'm looking at horses... whether they are more the sprinty type or the endurance type...
> 
> I guess you learn something new every day!
> 
> *A question on the WP horses...Are they your more slim built quarter horses? *
> 
> Thanks!


Nope, not at all. My WP has a body on him....his dad was a World Champ, mom was a Skipper W bred halter horse.


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## smrobs

They aren't necessarily more slim built, but they generally are a fair amount taller than what I like. I like my horses on the lower side of the 14-15 hand range and I don't see many WP type horses that are under 15 hands, most are 15-16 hands. Anymore, the really specialized WP horses seem to be a bit leggier, more like an appendix than a foundation.


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## EmilyJoy

OK, so lets focus on the stockier type horses.
What do you look for in the stockier type horse? 

shorter 
flank almost as wide as the heart girth
stocky
Good stout bones with large (in proportion to the body) hooves
Short cannon bones (both on front and back)
big barrel?
short hips that my or not be a touch higher then the withers
longish hocks
thicker, short, neck that's a tad bit more upright?
flat forehead
wide set eyes 
short ears
clean throat latch that ties into the neck clean and smooth
short back with pronounced withers?
broad chest

Is this right? Anything else that is extremely different then a WP & halter horse?

Thanks!


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## JustAwesome

Here is my mum's QH gelding.
Pictured here at 4, he is a paddock pony recovering from health related problems..
His sire is Mytee Obvious Te and Dam Cool doll by Ima Cool Seeker.
He's out of work, fat and living life being a horse!

He's 6 now.


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## EmilyJoy

OK, I will check it out.

Thanks,


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## EmilyJoy

Thanks for the info, I will check it out...


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## EmilyJoy

He's _is_ fat!_ lol..._ To bad he has to be retired at 6!

Are his pasterns well set?


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## TexanFreedom

The official AQHA website has a lot about QH confo. 

It also varies if you have a gelding or a mare/stallion, because mares and studs are breeding animals, and should have good conformation, but geldings are pretty much solely working animals, so they need to have good confo that supports a good ride and doesn't affect their riding or athletic ability, if that makes any sense.


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## GotaDunQH

EmilyJoy said:


> OK, so lets focus on the stockier type horses.
> What do you look for in the stockier type horse?
> 
> shorter *- most are shorter*
> flank almost as wide as the heart girth-*deep heart girth is desired*
> stocky*-the right stockiness without being coarse*
> Good stout bones with large (in proportion to the body) hooves-*bone and hooves proportioned to the rest of the horse*
> Short cannon bones (both on front and back)*-yes*
> big barrel?*-rounder barrelled*
> short hips that my or not be a touch higher then the withers-*short hips???*
> longish hocks*-long hocks???? You want a lower set hock*
> thicker, short, neck that's a tad bit more upright?*NO NEVER*
> flat forehead*-yes*
> wide set eyes*-yes*
> short ears*-yes*
> clean throat latch that ties into the neck clean and smooth*-yes*
> short back with pronounced withers?-*shorter back with a laid back wither*
> broad chest*-yes, as long as the horse is not base narrow*
> 
> Is this right? Anything else that is extremely different then a WP & halter horse?
> 
> Thanks!


My answers are in bold....but I look for alot of those things no matter what style QH it is.


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## JustAwesome

EmilyJoy said:


> He's _is_ fat!_ lol..._ To bad he has to be retired at 6!
> 
> Are his pasterns well set?


I will say he's not that fat now.. few kgs off! Should get new pictures!

No idea, other then he is a lovely boy to have around!
He's not retired just healing, he's mostly fine now and is going to the trainer soon to see how he goes.

It was his feet that caused the problem, taken a long time to fix, full care place my mum had him at and they neglected him..


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## Spirit Lifter

Nice thread. My girl is great, great grandaughter of Impressive. Double negative for HYPP.


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## EmilyJoy

Show some pictures of her! I like seeing what good quarter horses look like so I can look at what I _should _look for in a Quarter horse.

The more I learn of them the better I like them! They're "my kinda style"


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