# What do you do with a drunken sailor?



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I find that when my horse turns into a 'drunken sailor' it's because I'm not looking where I want him to go. I'm looking sideways at my friend, body follows. I'm looking down at his feet, or just down in front of his nose..etc etc. When I raise my eyes an look down the trail straight out into the distance, he tends to walk straighter.


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## BarrelWannabe (Feb 8, 2011)

Not to impede, but I actually feel proud of myself for knowing what a "drunken sailor" is.

I had a horse like that. Couldn't walk a straight line to save his life. Looking forward and to a distance did help. I wasn't concerned where or how is feet fell. Just made sure we were headed in the right direction.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

What Dreamcatcher said. Believe it or not your horse is watching you and in turn looking where you are looking. Everytime she turns her head to see what you are looking at she will arch her body and shift to a side. Try keeping yourself looking straight down the trail.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

What kinda trails? he is either trying to getoff the gravel or he is purposly trying to go as slow as he can and stay as close to the trailer as possible, Mine will do this heading out some times. He just doesnt wanna go, break of a handy branch and smack him the *** a few times to get the lead out.


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## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

Biscuit was all over the place because he was allowed to do so by whom ever former owner threw up there to ride him (read anyone and everyone - most people had never rode horses). So when I got Biscuit I have found that to not make a pleasant ride for me. The barn manager has helped me and he is actually being ridden by a trainer 2 times a week to learn his aids better and to specifically train him to go straighter. Barn Manager does alot of dressage training and said going straight is a very hard skill for horses to learn. Biscuit tends to arch his entire body and double track with his front and back hooves...even if he is just cantering free in pasture and arena. 

I ride sometimes with a very nice lady who lets her horse be all over the place. :shock: She cuts in front of you, weaves in and out, pushes people over, etc. Her mare (both of them actually) do this because she allows them to. It makes for a very nerve wracking ride because the old mare will kick and the young one will snake her head at Biscuit, ears flat teeth bared. Now she never actually bites and now won't do it after I got onto her while doing her feet (she was actually well trained until this lady got her!). But there have been a few times that it made for an unfun ride for me.

I rode with her a week and a half ago for 4.5 nerve wrecking miles. My cousin and I and our horses were a nervous wreck :evil: when we dismounted because of her weaving in and out, speeding up, slowing down...she was all over the place. 

So yeah, I think it is a big deal for other people you are riding with. I have had to work every single ride with Biscuit to get him to GO straight. If you are on the trail by yourself or with one other person and they are ahead of you the drunken sailor mode won't effect them. 

Biscuit has improved so much by not allowing him to just drunken sailor along - teaching him his aides, etc. Makes for a much more fun ride for me!


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Bonnie is 14 years old and I've owned her for just about 6 months. She was the dictionary definition of a drunken sailor and it drove me crazy. It's taken a lot of work and constant attention to keep her on the path. She's gotten much better - it just took consistency.

What still gets me concerned is when we are on a narrow path with a steep drop off on one side; she will walk very close to the wrong side and I've got to keep my aids on her.


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## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

OMG Bill - I live in mostly flat country!!! I am scared of heights where I don't feel secure - and on the back of a weaving horse on a drop off is not a secure place!!


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

When I'm on a trail like that, I keep my feet very shallow in the stirrups. My thought is that if the trail gives way under her, I can get off and not take the trip to the bottom with her.


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## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

ok...note to self...shallow in the stirrups!!! We are going riding at McKinney Roughs near Austin, TX Thursday - Sunday. It has some trails that drop off pretty darn steep - when we were there in April I just kept my eyes ahead!!!


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

iridehorses said:


> Bonnie is 14 years old and I've owned her for just about 6 months. She was the dictionary definition of a drunken sailor and it drove me crazy. It's taken a lot of work and constant attention to keep her on the path. She's gotten much better - it just took consistency.
> 
> What still gets me concerned is when we are on a narrow path with a steep drop off on one side; she will walk very close to the wrong side and I've got to keep my aids on her.


This might seem a bit odd at first.

Lean your body slightly (just enough to shift your center of gravity) to the outside, you know that side where the long fall exists. Our natural reaction is to lean away from danger but this causes your horse problems. He now has to adjust his weight the other direction to counter balance you, aka closer to the edge. So you go against your natural instincts and lean into the danger so your horse has to go away from the danger to counter balance you.

OR, just force yourself to stay centered in the saddle and not lean away from danger.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Thanks for the tip, Darrin. When I'm on a trail like that I ride center, keep my inside leg on her (leg towards the drop off) and rein her as in a side pass. It can get pretty unnerving at times but she is pretty sure footed despite riding too close to the edge for my comfort.

Sunday we were riding a ledge between a drop off of ~30' to a lake on one side and a steeper drop off to a rock filled catch basin on the other. There were hikers coming from the other side and it did get a little hairy for a bit but she is a steady trail horse, thank goodness.


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## Painted Horse (Dec 29, 2006)

It's fun causing the flatlanders to cry for dramaine when they ride with us.

The horses don't want to roll down the hill any more than you do, So they are pretty sure footed even though most folks fret about it.

One thing you can do is push your weight down on the inside stirup every time the horse lifts that leg. This will force the horse to take a shorter stride with that step. Short steps on one side and long steps on the outside and pretty soon the horse is working his way into the center of the trail.










It's just natural for the horses to want to walk the edge to get away from anything in the bushes on the uphill side



























Now everybody go take your dramamine


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## MySerenity (Jul 18, 2011)

> I find that when my horse turns into a 'drunken sailor' it's because I'm not looking where I want him to go. I'm looking sideways at my friend, body follows. I'm looking down at his feet, or just down in front of his nose..etc etc. When I raise my eyes an look down the trail straight out into the distance, he tends to walk straighter.


I think this is a really good point (and thanks also to those who agreed or added to it). It makes perfect sense because she is very sensitive to leg movements and body weight shifts. It really does always end up being our fault doesn't it! :wink:

So then here is my follow up question. How do I fix this if the reason I go on a trail ride to look around and to chat with the person riding next to my horse? If I sit straight, look ahead (with my hands and feet inside the vehicle) then I'm missing the cool looking oak tree or the hawk flying over head, aren't I?

Or am I supposed to be able to keep my body "looking" forward while I actually look elsewhere? Or am I just as distractable as my horse? Or do I just learn to live with it?


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I think it's likely that your horse has sore feet. Try what has been suggested and if that doesn't work then try a set of shoes. If you trail ride very often then it's quite likely that your horse is wearing his feet off faster than they are growing and leaving him tender. There is no trimming technique that will correct this. You will either have to use boots or horseshoes. Judging by the number of hoof boots I've found on trails they don't stay on real well.


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## Endurance Chica (Oct 1, 2010)

kevinshorses said:


> I think it's likely that your horse has sore feet. Try what has been suggested and if that doesn't work then try a set of shoes. If you trail ride very often then it's quite likely that your horse is wearing his feet off faster than they are growing and leaving him tender. There is no trimming technique that will correct this. You will either have to use boots or horseshoes. Judging by the number of hoof boots I've found on trails they don't stay on real well.


Shoes arent always the solution. There are things that will toughen up a horses feet if they are just being sensitive. I found that venice turpentine works well. And if your doing more riding than thier feet can handle, there are also many boots that do actually stay on well. All my horses are barefoot and when we trail ride I use Easyboot Epic. Best boot I have found, and being an endurance rider I have really put them to the test. With out the boots my horses will tend to wander to the edge of the road to avoid rocks.

But I also have a 5 year old I just started trail riding alone with and she does the drunken sailor walk bad. With her though its not so much how my body is positioned as it is lack of confidence so when she looks to the left at the garbage can we wander over that way, then when we look back to the right at a mailbox we wander back the other way. In her case the cure is just more outings


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Endurance Chica said:


> Shoes arent always the solution. There are things that will toughen up a horses feet if they are just being sensitive. I found that venice turpentine works well. And if your doing more riding than thier feet can handle, there are also many boots that do actually stay on well. All my horses are barefoot and when we trail ride I use Easyboot Epic. Best boot I have found, and being an endurance rider I have really put them to the test. With out the boots my horses will tend to wander to the edge of the road to avoid rocks.


I thought I was being quite open minded to suggest boots in the first place. Properly applied shoes do no harm to a horses hooves.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

The only reason to avoid shoes in a normal horse is to save money. The horse is not injured by properly applied shoes that are reset or changed on a regular basis.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

And just for the record Celeste, what is your education and profession?


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

No one has mentioned yet - push her forward! Generally the faster a horse travels, the straighter they will travel. Applies more at a gallop but the same principal applies at the walk. Most of mine will wander when they are being lazy, but at a good march we travel pretty true.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

kevinshorses said:


> And just for the record Celeste, what is your education and profession?


I am a Georgia state licenced, USDA federally accredited veterinarian. After 25 years of equine practice (with a little small animal practice mixed in , I retired from practice after one too many emergency colic call and I now teach anatomy at a small college.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

So what are the potential problems caused by properly applying horseshoes and what would some drawbacks be to going barefoot?


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## Endurance Chica (Oct 1, 2010)

My mom went to school and became a licensed farrier about ten years ago and after learning and seeing first hand what shoes can do to some horses we opted to go barefoot and have been ever since. If a horse doesnt grow much hoof the constant reapplication of shoes can really tear up the hoof wall. That was one of our horses problems. That and he would come up lame every few months or so. Started barefoot and he hasnt been lame since. 
A horses foot is designed to flex and contrast with every step. This takes away some of the concusion to the rest of the horses leg and keeps a constant blood to the hoof. When you put a shoe on, it eliminates the hoofs ability to do that. I have one horse that had calcium building up in his joint and wouldnt stay sound. You could actually see the increased size in his joint. Quit shoes and started a natual hoofcare trimming schedule and he was actually able to be brought out of an early retirement. Lameness problems disappeared. 
There isnt one solution for every horse out there but for me barefoot was definitely the answer. Some of the drawbacks are the experimental process of figuring out what boots and hoof protection work the best for your riding, and the putting on boots. Not the most fun thing to do in the winter when fingers are cold, or the boots are muddy to take off. But much cheaper in the long run.
Just my opinion


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## MySerenity (Jul 18, 2011)

> No one has mentioned yet - push her forward! Generally the faster a horse travels, the straighter they will travel. Applies more at a gallop but the same principal applies at the walk. Most of mine will wander when they are being lazy, but at a good march we travel pretty true.


I like your thought process. The only problem with that is that my 16h warmblood and I ride with 14 something hand QH/arab types and the only way we can ride together is if I'm doing a collected walk... lol I can try to keep her in front of my leg more and maybe that will help.

(Oh and thanks for staying on topic and not strangely hijacking the thread)


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

A horse with normal hooves should not have any problems with properly applied, properly maintained shoes. 

The main problem that I have seen with shod horses is when the owner tries to make the shoes last over 6 or 8 weeks. The horses overgrow the shoes and bruise their soles. Another problem with leaving shoes on too long is that they will throw a shoe and a chunk of hoof with it. This may take a while to grow back. I have seen horses kept in extremely muddy environments that had trouble keeping their shoes on. They even had bigger problems with thrush. 

If shoes are not maintained on a regular schedule, they will do more harm than good. 

Shoes protect horses from rocks and general wear and tear. Horses that are seldom ridden probably don't need shoes. Horses that are heavily ridden usually benefit from shoes. 

In my own case, I keep shoes on the horses that we ride. The freeloader bums usually go barefoot. 

The decision to shoe or not to shoe a normal horse is a purely an economic one.


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

I've read stuff from a vet that says otherwise when it comes to shoes, they always cause harm. I'm not an expert so not going to get into that debate any further then that. 

What I have done is researched both sides of the debat and came to the conclusion I will go without shoes. When a horse has a cronic lameness issue that shoeing will help, then I'll shoe them.

Back to the drunken sailor problem. If you are riding with horses that have a much shorter natural stride then "drunken sailor" might be one way your horse tries to keep going at the same forward rate. IE, putting more motion into side to side then forward. So, does she do this when solo?


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## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

I applied some of the techniques here on keeping Biscuit off of the outside edge of a drop off this weekend! I made sure I was sitting straight with weight equally distributed. 

He can be a bit of a drunken sailor and I was letting him choose his own path as it was freaking rocky as all get out there. Hubby noted "Biscuit is all over the place" so after that I turned to training mode and while everyone else was tracking on the left of the trail I made Biscuit track on the right so he wasn't just "following" the other horses. He did a terrific job with a little help with leg pressure and occasional light touch on the reins. 

All of the horses had boots on this weekend as it is not rocky where we live and we rode at McKinney Roughs in central Texas near Austin. My horses are barefoot and I do barefoot trimming on them. My former horse had shoes and it was a nightmare and expensive as all get out keeping him shod. He was shod from the time he was about 18 months old and had 0 or 00 feet and was a 15.3 hh racing bred Quarter Horse. He had the littlest feet that were not the best and I really believe all of the shoeing is what put his feet in that condition. Don't understand why race horses are shod in the first place. They are trained in soft dirt! 

My horses back feet looked terrific after the rides - their Mustang Rolls looked even more "rolled"!! The rocks and sand really did their feet wonders! I wish they were tough enough to go totally barefoot there but they aren't. My hubby's horse might have been able to; he has got feet of steel.


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## ButtInTheDirt (Jan 16, 2011)

My horse Sadie does that too, but she will weave off of the smooth dirt path onto the gravel threshold between the field and the dirt. My dad rides her, and gets really stressed out and has no idea how to handle it. I don't see us riding again untill spring but it would be nice to know how to fix it. She is barefoot, and such a piggy; but it is not like we can trail ride anywhere that doesn't have fields with hay/grass.

Nobody has any controll of her when riding. She will try to quit and stop real close to anyone on the ground. And when I am riding my gelding she will weave and bump into him. -.- I would love to know ways to fix this.


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## talleyho (Nov 23, 2011)

My Cleveland Bay used to do the same thing as a youngster. I used to claim I rode twice the distance as everyone else on the ride! Some days I thought I was riding a snake! In time we worked out of it. I think it is one part looking around, one part inexperience, one part youthful exuberance and one part just excited to be a part of it all. If you gently try to keep urging her to stay straight, she should stop "staggering" in time.


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

ButtInTheDirt said:


> My horse Sadie does that too, but she will weave off of the smooth dirt path onto the gravel threshold between the field and the dirt. My dad rides her, and gets really stressed out and has no idea how to handle it. I don't see us riding again untill spring but it would be nice to know how to fix it. She is barefoot, and such a piggy; but it is not like we can trail ride anywhere that doesn't have fields with hay/grass.
> 
> Nobody has any controll of her when riding. She will try to quit and stop real close to anyone on the ground. And when I am riding my gelding she will weave and bump into him. -.- I would love to know ways to fix this.


It could be she was not trained well to begin with and needs additional training. Or, she's been trained well enough but has your number. A trainer can fix or tune her up but a problem still exists and that's you.

If you and your dad don't learn what you are doing wrong she'll go right back to doing what you sent her to a trainer to fix. Take yourselves and your horse to a trainer and have them teach you what you are doing wrong and how to correct her.

Every ride is a training ride and it is often easier to teach horses bad habits then good ones.


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## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

Darrin said:


> Every ride is a training ride and it is often easier to teach horses bad habits then good ones.


That is so true!! I have had Biscuit 13 months and every ride with him has been a training ride. He is/was sweet, gentle and willing but was also allowed to just follow mindlessly on the trails with a totally inexperienced (read never rode a horse in their life person) on his back so he just tuned everything out. 

Every ride has been to reinforce his good points and work on those that aren't good or could be better. Leg aids on and hands gentle but firmly on the reins has helped. Also me learning better aids has helped IMMENSELY because Biscuit wasn't the only one that needed training!!


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