# Are my heels down too far?



## texas cowgurl (Oct 13, 2014)

Sorry the picture is from a phone and I retook the photo with my tablet.
I was told my heels are down to far...


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Doesn't look like it, not a good picture but your legs are too far forward and heels are in the horse's side, maybe you were in the middle of a cue for something?


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## texas cowgurl (Oct 13, 2014)

waresbear said:


> Doesn't look like it, not a good picture but your legs are too far forward and heels are in the horse's side, maybe you were in the middle of a cue for something?


I'm sorry I forgot to say I was in the middle of cueing her to side pass. 
That's why my heel was into the horse's side. 
Probably why my leg was too far up as well. 

However, I had someone taking me my heels were too far down.

Tomorrow, I can get more pictures. My boyfriend took the photo. 
Thanks


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

How do YOU feel about it?

I'm not trying to be facetious or going zen on you. Does the position do something for you that you like?

My heels would never go that low, because I'm a 57 year old guy and lifelong jogger and my calf muscles won't stretch that far. I got in a quick 10-15 minute ride this evening before darkness and chores forced a stop. Bandit and I did mostly 2 point in my western saddle because he still sometimes braces at a trot and we didn't ride long enough to loosen him up.

My heels were not as low as yours, but they were low enough to firm up the calf muscle. Bandit stops very well - better than I'd like, frankly - and my heels were low enough and my lower leg firm enough to keep me from being launched forward in my aptly names "slick seat" saddle with a "slick fork" front.

OTOH, I wasn't FORCING them down, so there was no bracing. All in all, it felt good tonight. I had the right position to help me do what I wanted without anything bad happening. But no one could look at a picture and know that. That is something I have to determine.

So how did it feel? Were you forcing anything? Any bracing? Or were you relaxed with a stretched but relaxed calf muscle? Did the amount of heels down make you happy?


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## texas cowgurl (Oct 13, 2014)

bsms said:


> How do YOU feel about it?
> 
> I'm not trying to be facetious or going zen on you. Does the position do something for you that you like?
> 
> ...


Yes, I felt happy with my position with my feet for that picture because of I was giving a cue to my horse.
I know you're suppose to ride with your heels down, but I never heard your heels are too far down...which someone told me today.

I'm 99% sure my heels aren't that low when I'm riding without cueing my horse for side pass. Also I'm almost 20 and I have more stretch. Also I felt balance as well.


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## enh817 (Jun 1, 2012)

I wouldn't necessarily say that your heels are too low, but it does look like you are pushing against your stirrups, which has forced your feet forward and your butt up against the cantle. You have enough stretch through you calves that I bet your heels will stay down, without you even thinking about it. I would suggest that instead of worrying about your heels, try to focus on just letting you legs hang down relaxed from your hips, with your toes pointing forward (when you aren't using a spur) and think about having weight on the outside of your foot, rather than the inside. Try to think more about lifting your toes up, rather than pushing your heels down. 
And scoot your seat forward as far as you can, so that your thighs are toughing your swells (it will be hard to maintain until you get the muscle memory for it, so just keep grabbing your saddle horn and scooting yourself up until it gets easier). That will put you in a much more balanced and relaxed seat, than the tight and bracing one I see in the photo. I know it might feel secure to have a bunch of weight pushing in your stirrups and your butt pushed back against the cantle (I rode like that for many, many years... and fell off regularly for many, many years), but the tighter you are, the easier it is to get popped out of the saddle. The looser and more relaxed you are, the more your body will just flow with the horse. 


Here's the only decent picture of my heels that I could find without having to get out my external HD. It's not a great representation of what I was saying about your seat, since I was just trying the saddle and the seat was too small for me (plus I got a little soft after a month off traveling) and I think the stirrups were probably a hole or two too short. I was struggling to keep my seat far enough forward to stay off the cantle. But it's a good illustration of what I was saying about heels -- you can see that even though I have my heel down quite a bit, there's really not a ton of weight on my stirrups. Enough, but not too much that I'm bracing against my stirrups. I don't generally ride with my heels down this much, when my stirrups are a better length. 











This is more typical of how I ride, my heels really aren't very far down. (stirrups are still a tad too short though probably...)










I think it's not as important how much your heels are down, rather that you let your legs hang relaxed beneath you, allowing gravity to pull your weight through your heels, with your ankles loose and relaxed. When I'm riding well, I can't sit a pretty bouncy trot or lope, without my seat ever leaving the saddle, by allowing my ankles and heels to absorb the shock and bounce. If you looked closely, you'd probably see my heels bouncing up and down with each stride. You can certainly hear it in the jingle of my spurs (it's not my spurs actually sliding around, they are tight on my boot). Figuring out how to loosen up and relax through my legs and ankles has vastly improved my ability to sit a bouncy horse.

Not that I'm an equitation guru or anything, but it is something that I have been intensively working on for the past year, with my equitation-hound of a boss/trainer. My equitation was TERRIBLE when I first came to work here. It's slowly improving though 



Sorry to veer off topic, but I can't refrain from asking about what is on your horse's head in the picture. Is that a mechanical hackamore? My personal dislike for them aside, it appears to be sitting far too low on the horse's face. Excuse me if I'm mistaken, it's hard to see clearly in the photo


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## enh817 (Jun 1, 2012)

Take a look at this video of Charlotte Dujardin and Valegro.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcDLLxgWa_Y

One could easily argue that this is some of the best equitation in the world. Certainly, no one can deny how 'with' her horse she is and how solid, deep and balanced her seat is. It is NOT easy to sit very collected or extended gaits. When the horse really finds that round frame, much of the energy is moving up and down, rather than flat. 
See how well she sits every gait? Now watch her feet. Her heels are not particularly very far down, but you can see how every stride, her heels and ankles absorb the shock. That's what I'm talking about. 

I would kill to be able to sit a horse like she can!!


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## texas cowgurl (Oct 13, 2014)

enh817 said:


> I wouldn't necessarily say that your heels are too low, but it does look like you are pushing against your stirrups, which has forced your feet forward and your butt up against the cantle. You have enough stretch through you calves that I bet your heels will stay down, without you even thinking about it. I would suggest that instead of worrying about your heels, try to focus on just letting you legs hang down relaxed from your hips, with your toes pointing forward (when you aren't using a spur) and think about having weight on the outside of your foot, rather than the inside. Try to think more about lifting your toes up, rather than pushing your heels down.
> And scoot your seat forward as far as you can, so that your thighs are toughing your swells (it will be hard to maintain until you get the muscle memory for it, so just keep grabbing your saddle horn and scooting yourself up until it gets easier). That will put you in a much more balanced and relaxed seat, than the tight and bracing one I see in the photo. I know it might feel secure to have a bunch of weight pushing in your stirrups and your butt pushed back against the cantle (I rode like that for many, many years... and fell off regularly for many, many years), but the tighter you are, the easier it is to get popped out of the saddle. The looser and more relaxed you are, the more your body will just flow with the horse.
> 
> 
> ...


 I saw how she sat with every gait. GREAT seat. 
Do you think the stirrup is too short that's why my legs are forwards or i'm bracing?
I don't sit with every gait I'll admit. I post my trot (yes, even in my western saddle when I don't show, it's more comfortable for me). But I do stay balanced. 

I don't see how you're balanced at all! Not with your stirrups too short. Oh no, my little legs wouldn't handle it. 

No it's not a hackamore, it's a shanks from the bit. 
Sidepulls hackamore are my personal choice. Again I know it's not a good picture. 

Today when I was loping, I noticed my heels were like shocks today. I always remind myself heels down (not to the point where I'm uncomfortable though) During the lope, I used my feet properly. I used the horn to pull up as well, instead of sitting back with a chair seat. I felt very balanced, especially with my loping to a stop.


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## enh817 (Jun 1, 2012)

I don't think your stirrups are too short. It's hard to say though just from that picture. It could just be the way the saddle is built or it could be that you are bracing against your stirrups. More pictures or, even better, a video would make it more clear. 
I think you would benefit from some work without stirrups, preferably bareback, if you're comfortable with it, practicing just letting gravity pull down through your whole leg and keeping relaxed through your hips. Feel the difference in your muscle tension when you actively try to put your heels down versus when you just relax through your whole leg, ankles and feet included, and just let gravity pull your legs down around the horse's side. Try riding around at different gaits while trying to keep your heels down and then try riding the same gaits with your legs hanging like the girl in this photo. Even try riding around with your toes pointed down Take note of the differences you feel. Which feels more balanced and secure for you? 









Another thing to notice, with your feet out of the stirrup or bareback, how far can you put your heels down? Have someone take a picture of your leg like that, so you can see it. That's really as low as your heels every need to be. If your heels are much further down than that with stirrups, that's a pretty good indication that you are bracing in order to achieve that, since you can't do it without the stirrup. There is nothing advantageous to having your heels down drastically, versus just slightly. The important thing, is just allowing everything to be relaxed so as to absorb shock. Just as you saw in the video of Charlotte Dujardin, her heels really aren't down much at all, and it certainly isn't a detriment to her riding 


I ride cowhorses, and we typically ride shorter stirrups than other disciplines, because you do need your stirrups to help stay balanced for the very quick maneuvers that happen on a cow. If you're reaching for your stirrups, it's a lot easier to lose one when things get faster. But, yes, my stirrups are too short in both those pictures I posted and in the one, the saddle is too small for me as well, which further contributes to making it hard for me to have a proper seat. 
Here's a picture from the same ride that the first picture I posted is from. Even though the stirrups are short, I am still able to stay balanced and centered while spinning pretty quickly. It probably wasn't as easy (or as pretty) as it would've been with stirrups a little longer, but I don't remember having any problems. If you can keep your muscles relaxed, you can work around improperly fitting saddles, too short stirrups, rough riding horses, wild bronc rides, etc.








I didn't work a cow that day, so I can't say how I would've fared through that, but I do some sliding stops without issue. 
But the short stirrups are the reason my heel is so exaggeratedly down in the pictures from that ride. And my ankles were pretty sore before too long. 


Just keep working on it! Equitation is a constant battle we all have to deal with. It sounds like you are having success playing around with some different techniques. So long as you're making an effort to improve, it will get better/easier!! 
I wish I had a before picture easily handy, so I could show you how terrible my equitation was a year ago, before I started really working on it. At the time, I knew it wasn't good, but I didn't know why. I needed someone to point out to me, exactly what needed to change. I'm far from perfect, but I'm a bajillion times better than I was! And, amazingly, I haven't fallen off nearly as much as I used to, when I was riding with terrible eq!!


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## texas cowgurl (Oct 13, 2014)

enh817 said:


> I don't think your stirrups are too short. It's hard to say though just from that picture. It could just be the way the saddle is built or it could be that you are bracing against your stirrups. More pictures or, even better, a video would make it more clear.
> I think you would benefit from some work without stirrups, preferably bareback, if you're comfortable with it, practicing just letting gravity pull down through your whole leg and keeping relaxed through your hips. Feel the difference in your muscle tension when you actively try to put your heels down versus when you just relax through your whole leg, ankles and feet included, and just let gravity pull your legs down around the horse's side. Try riding around at different gaits while trying to keep your heels down and then try riding the same gaits with your legs hanging like the girl in this photo. Even try riding around with your toes pointed down Take note of the differences you feel. Which feels more balanced and secure for you?
> 
> 
> ...


I'll try to get a video if not, than more pictures today after work when I go for my evening ride. 

Yes, I was surprised how balanced I was yesterday from loping to a sudden stop. My hips were relaxed and I didn't feel like falling to the ground was an option.
Thanks for the tips. I'll keep that in mind this evening. I'm always looking to get better and a friendly critique is nice! 
I use to ride bareback a lot actually. My heels weren't down during those rides, my core and thighs did all the work.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

texas cowgurl, you alone know if you are bracing or not. It is impossible to tell from a photo. 

There is nothing magic about heels down. When it happens, your heels can function to absorb some shock - but only if there is weight in the heels, which means pressure on the stirrup, which means part of your support is coming from the stirrups. It is important if you are jumping, perhaps, but not for western riding.

Apart from that, toes up stretches the calf muscle, so your lower leg has a firm yet flat surface to grip the horse if needed.

It also makes it easier to brace against a sudden stop with support from the lower leg.

"One could easily argue that this is some of the best equitation in the world."

It is dressage. It is excellent dressage, but dressage is not the end all of riding. Dressage emphasizes collected gaits. Western riding, on the whole, does not. A position that is mechanically sound for riding a collected gait is not mechanically sound for riding fast, or trail riding, or jumping, or polo, or many other things.

Her feet were not absorbing shock. They were giving cues, constantly. Outstanding dressage, but not western riding.

There is no ideal amount of heels down. George Morris, writing about a forward seat, says the toes should point out 10-45 degrees, depending on the rider and horse. He's right. No one can say XX deg is the right amount because too much depends on the rider. Heck, my left foot always sticks out further than my right. That is true when I go jogging, as well. It's just the way my body works.

Same with heels. Heels level works fine for many people, including Charlotte Dujardin and my youngest daughter. I ride a western saddle in a forward seat, in part because my western saddle has no swell and is a "slick seat".

On short, thick little (13 hands) Cowboy:










On Mia, using an Australian style saddle:










The best advice I've seen about "position" comes from VS Littauer. He wrote there are only two important tests of your riding position:

*1 - Are you in fluid balance with your horse?*

A horse doing a collected gait has its balance to the rear. One galloping has it to the front. Going around a tight turn, to the rear. A horse's balance shifts and our balance should normally match the horse's balance (or be slightly behind for stability). You can either move your balance over the horse's, or teach the horse to move his balance under you. But your horse will perform best if your center of gravity is close to his.

*2 - Can you give the cues you need to give to your horse?*

In the dressage video, she was constantly giving cues with her heel. That is part of why that position works for dressage. She could not cue the horse the way she needs to if her feet were forward.

But I use a very simple set of cues, since my horses and I are all simple. I almost never use my heel for a cue. I almost never feel the need. I use my lower leg, but almost never my heel. I'd flunk a simple dressage test, but it works fine for trail riding.

If my horse is getting nervous about something ahead, I slide my legs forward. This tells my horse "Don't try to turn. I want to go forward and you can do it." That is a cue for them. It is not one needed in dressage, but it is one I need with my horses pretty often.

If you are in fluid balance with your horse, and you can give the cues you like and need to give, then your position is fine.

On the whole, texas cowgurl, I "like" your position better than enh817's - but then, I don't ride the horses she rides with the goals she has. Larry Trocha, a guy who teaches cutting and reining, would "like" her position better than mine. I like Larry Trocha and I tried following his advice for about 3-4 months, but gave it up because it didn't match the riding I do. My main riding horse is a 15 hand, 800 lb Arabian/Mustang mix. He just moves differently than a Quarter Horse bred for explosive power. I like Bandit, but he's not built the way a good cutting horse would be:










Think about Littauer's advice. Unless you are training for a specific sport or expecting to be judged, only you and your horse can say if your position is right for what you both do.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

bsms said:


> texas cowgurl, you alone know if you are bracing or not. It is impossible to tell from a photo.


As much as I tend to agree with you, bsms, I have to disagree on this point.

I can't get the photo to work, but I have a pic of a lady at my barn who you can FEEL how braced and stiff she is just from looking at the pic. Seriously, I showed it to a friend who has been riding all her life (50+ years) and she looked like this :shock: and said "She needs to relax and stop bracing!"


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

IMO, if you always think "My heels need to be down!" You will get bracey and jam your heel down, throwing your whole seat off.

Just relax, think about sinking your whole body into your heel without bracing against the stirrup. 

Also keep in mind that some peoples heels will be end up naturally lower than others.

This is usually where my heel sits.

Notice how I'm not bracing against anything at all?

Thats kind of what you want.


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## texas cowgurl (Oct 13, 2014)

Okay I tried y'all's advice. I know you, it takes time...but here are some pictures.


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## enh817 (Jun 1, 2012)

I think you have done a wonderful job getting your legs more underneath you, and I think you look a lot more relaxed, especially in the last photo. Your heels look good too! Just remember to keep your ankles loose and your eyes up. You don't need to look at your horse, you can feel him. Look where you want to go 

From the head on shot, I want to say that it looks like your right stirrup might be a bit longer that the left stirrup? Perhaps try putting it up a hole and seeing how that feels. You can always put it back if you don't like it.

Keep at it!!  I love your horse's face marking


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## enh817 (Jun 1, 2012)

I also wanted to point out how much better you're sitting in your saddle! You aren't pushed back against the cantle in any of those pictures, you're sitting up in the middle of your saddle. Sometimes that can be really hard, depending on how a saddle is build. The ones that have a seat (and stirrups) that just help you sit up there against the swells, without making you work to stay there... those are the great saddles


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## texas cowgurl (Oct 13, 2014)

enh817 said:


> I think you have done a wonderful job getting your legs more underneath you, and I think you look a lot more relaxed, especially in the last photo. Your heels look good too! Just remember to keep your ankles loose and your eyes up. You don't need to look at your horse, you can feel him. Look where you want to go
> 
> From the head on shot, I want to say that it looks like your right stirrup might be a bit longer that the left stirrup? Perhaps try putting it up a hole and seeing how that feels. You can always put it back if you don't like it.
> 
> Keep at it!!  I love your horse's face marking


Thank you!  This made my morning that I'm doing better. 
I used your advice to pull up from the saddle horn. As looking down at my horse I do that a lot, I know eyes up...gotta work on that too.

Yes, I love her oddly shaped blaze. I used to call it a puzzle piece because in the middle of the blaze is the random O, it looks like you could put a puzzle piece in there to finish it. lol.

As for my heels I thought of toes up instead and I caught myself curling my toes upwards and was like....I don't think this is what ENH817 meant....


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Lovely change in your legs already!

One thing that changed too is your back. In the first pic it's nice and flat, and the more recent you have a lot of curve going on. 

It just takes a little tilt of your pelvis (I think of tucking my pockets under slightly) or aligning your shoulders over your torso to flatten your back again.

Experiment a little with what accomplishes that, keep your legs under you beautifully but also have a nice straight back (not stiff) so that you aren't putting any excess pressure on your lower back


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

looking at this picture:











it looks as if the saddle balance makes it sort of easy to be in a chair seat. and when you post, your leg naturally goes forward, encouraging a push into the stirrup that's too much, and brings the lower leg off the hrose. this becuase the stirrup bar is set quite far forward. the fender hangs down from the front part of the saddle, instead of closer to the middle.

this last photo shows you getting your leg back under you, but I suspect that the saddle itself makes it hard to do this. did it feel hard?


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

The stirrup is set in a normal position, behind the swell. It takes some pressure from the leg - and a resting leg can do it - to move the stirrup forward of the swell.

Nor is that position a "chair seat", since the thighs are mostly vertical. In the picture below, I'm not thrilled with how Bandit is moving - we're working on it - but my position is not a chair seat, nor is it caused by the saddle:








​ 
Any time the stirrup is under the swell, it is not caused by the stirrup placement, because the stirrups of all western saddles are hung behind the swell. It is just the leg moving the stirrup forward.

But that does not imply a chair seat. It does imply you are behind the motion, but that is often a good thing in western riding. Why? Because while a horse has to work a little harder when you are behind the motion, it is also more secure when the horse suddenly stops, or trips, or changes direction - things a dressage rider should not have to worry about.

A horizontal thigh is perched on top of a horse. A mostly vertical thigh is wrapped around the horse. A thigh like the OP's:








​ 
is most assuredly not perched on top of the horse, but wrapped around it - unlike a chair. Edward Gal is not in a chair seat:








​ 
Heel under hip is not always desirable. Larry Trocha's advice on riding is that I ought to raise my stirrups and get my feet further in front of me. He says that makes it easier to stick with a cutting or reining horse. I like it deeper...just feels better to me. Maybe because my horses are so slender, or a defensive response to all the times Mia tried to twist out from under me. The pictures of enh817 riding look spot on with how Larry Trocha says to ride a cow horse.

Heel under hip works well with a well trained horse in a collected gait. When the horse is not collected - as with Edward Gal in the picture above - then it ought to be OK to have the heel move to a more secure position.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

Is your bit on backwards in the first photo? 
Hard to tell, but it looks like it is.
It could be a bit I have never seen before though.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

TC, I keep thinking the same thing...it is blurry and I cannot tell. It almost looks like a mechanical hackamore, but if so, it is way too low, and still looks backwards.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

greentree said:


> TC, I keep thinking the same thing...it is blurry and I cannot tell. It almost looks like a mechanical hackamore, but if so, it is way too low, and still looks backwards.


About 2/3 down the first page, the OP states that it isn't a hack, it's a bit. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## texas cowgurl (Oct 13, 2014)

It's a bit! I stated this....and yeah someone missed with my headstall the first picture it's backwards. The other photos if you can't tell I fixed it. No damage to the horse's mouth! It's a curb bit with shanks, not a hack! 
I like sidepulls if it's a hackamore.

Thanks. 
Always I have problems with my back, so some days are worse than others....
I was more focused on my legs honesty.


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## texas cowgurl (Oct 13, 2014)

Also I love her blaze, the random O on the side...always called it the puzzle piece because it looks like another piece of a puzzle would complete it.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

Relax!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just stating it might be on backwards! Some people don't realize this! 
Does not matter if it a bit or a hackamore or a side pull! if it is on backwards, it is on backwards! 
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## texas cowgurl (Oct 13, 2014)

Taffy Clayton said:


> Relax!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just stating it might be on backwards! Some people don't realize this!
> Does not matter if it a bit or a hackamore or a side pull! if it is on backwards, it is on backwards!
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


A curb bit works on leverage...rather than pressure.

Wait...how can a hack be on backwards?  I understand a bit but a hackamore?
Uhh I'm pretty sure it matters for a horse's cue if it's on backwards.

I fixed it, but man I couldn't believe I didn't noticed it before mounting my horse. Blonde me...


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

So, I also kind of want to say that sometimes, your saddle does mess with your position. Barrel saddles (looks like thats what youre using) have their stirrups hung a little bit more forward, to help with sitting you deeper in your turns when barrel racing. This also will kind of make your leg sit a little bit more forward than whats "proper" and youll just end up fighting your saddle for position.
Both of my saddles (team roper and barrel) put my leg a little bit more ahead than what's "correct" 
As you can see here:



But I'm still capable of getting my leg under me in other tack:


So that's something to consider when you're looking at your position, ask yourself if you feel like you're fighting your saddle.


I also want to address this:


To me, that is a dead give away that you are bracing and are very stiff.

You should ride around at a walk with your feet out of the stirrups and let your leg hang down and relax, let it hug your horses barrel, and when you feel relaxed, think toes up and in, which will help you stretch your heel down without sticking your feet out.
This isnt the best example for this because I have my weight shifted over, but you can see the differences between my leg and yours.


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## texas cowgurl (Oct 13, 2014)

QHriderKE said:


> So, I also kind of want to say that sometimes, your saddle does mess with your position. Barrel saddles (looks like thats what youre using) have their stirrups hung a little bit more forward, to help with sitting you deeper in your turns when barrel racing. This also will kind of make your leg sit a little bit more forward than whats "proper" and youll just end up fighting your saddle for position.
> Both of my saddles (team roper and barrel) put my leg a little bit more ahead than what's "correct"
> As you can see here:
> 
> ...


It is a barrel saddle. I use to race back when I was in high school. 
That photo was the same day as the other photos in that post...in the other ones, my legs aren't that far away from the barrel of the horse. Do you think maybe it's cause it's in a faster gait, I was kicking up my horse?


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Hackamores most definitely can be put on backward and they are completely ineffective (and can cause serious damage) if used backward. My friend accidentally had her Quick Stop hack backwards for a few rides and afterward, her gelding was a bear to bridle for quite a while.

As for the bit being backward, I would say it actually probably matter MORE with a curb than with a snaffle if it's backward or not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

If you're pushing your horse up, your leg should be on it.


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## texas cowgurl (Oct 13, 2014)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Hackamores most definitely can be put on backward and they are completely ineffective (and can cause serious damage) if used backward. My friend accidentally had her Quick Stop hack backwards for a few rides and afterward, her gelding was a bear to bridle for quite a while.
> 
> As for the bit being backward, I would say it actually probably matter MORE with a curb than with a snaffle if it's backward or not.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 I never said it didn't matter! 
And I would disagree it would matter I whole lot more in a snaffle than curb...IMO.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Confession time: Last week, I rode little 13 hand Cowboy. He was fine on left turns, but kind of slow on right turns and stops. About two miles down the trail, I got off and took a look. Sure enough, the left rein was attached to the bit, and the right was still on his halter. It isn't my first faux pas with tack, and won't be my last. Can't blame little Cowboy for giving me the stink eye, though...

FWIW, I find it easier to let my lower leg hand next to my horse if my toes go out some. My left is always further out than my right - which is true when I jog as well - so it is about 40 deg & 20 deg. If I try to put my toes straight ahead, it drives my lower leg off my horse. Don't know if that is because I'm in 50s, but that is how it works with me.


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## Saddlebred11 (Mar 27, 2014)

The way I see it you are putting you heels down but in order to do so you are simply pushing your legs out in front of you. Build a base of support in your leg, don't put your heels down. Try to make a straight line, ear,shoulder, hip to heel.
As I understand from reading other responses you may have been giving a side pass cue when the picture was taken so I understand this may be a result of that.


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