# Oh No It's Another Leasing Question



## redbadger

Oh no here we go again.


(sidenote: the barn is currently closed to customers proper, but as 'people involved in the care/wellbeing of pets/animals/livestock' are considered exceptions, there's, uh, leeway. which is important as horses are one of my last current connections to sanity at this point.)


I digress.


I was told today that the young woman who leases Jasper - the other horse I ride besides Toby - has been laid off for 3 months and can't afford to keep up her lease. My trainer offered the lease to me. (til the young woman is back, of course.)


It's $200/month, so with me often riding 2x a week (at $40 for a trail ride and $60 for a lesson) that's ultimately less than I pay by session, and my trainer wouldn't charge me extra for a lesson. I'd be allowed to ride him 3x a week, for however long, whenever he's not otherwise working. And it certainly doesn't preclude me from riding Toby if he's available, either.


Overall it's a really solid deal. But, Jasper is a big horse and forward - he's 16.1(ish?), covers a lot of ground, likes to move. He will work in the ring (his leaser does), though he doesn't like it, and he might be difficult on that note especially to work him at a speed above a walk. For all his forwardness, though, he is a very smooth ride (just. so tall. so much legs.) and not nuts. (working theory, though no one knows his background, is maybe someone tried to make an eventing horse of him, but his perspective on jumping is just to haul over an obstacle without grace or care so that may not have worked). So I guess my worry is that he's too much horse for me, but at the same time, we have worked pretty well on the trail together, and 3x a week might help that issue.


But I am seeking counsel from wiser horse people before I make a decision.


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## Jolly101

I think it sounds like a good opportunity for you and if your instructor has suggested it, then they must think that you'll be capable or capable to learn how to handle him. Plus, I think riding a horse a little out of your comfort zone could challenge you enough to improve on your riding abilities. I say go for it! If it doesn't work out, then there is no harm in stopping the lease later on.

Plus, 3 rides a week with one lesson free of additional charge is a great deal! Yu don't come by that often.


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## tinyliny

From what I've read of your progress, you are ready. Grab this opportunity, while you still can.


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## Chevaux

Sounds like the perfect opportunity to glean experience, skill, knowledge and expand the old comfort zone. Give it a good try and know you can always pack it in if it truly isn’t working out for you.


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## Wild Heart

From what you've explained it sounds like this horse would be the perfect candidate to expand your skills! I'd go for it!!


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## Kalraii

It sounds like a safe deal - you will have people around you that can assist and your trainer ofc if you feel out of your comfort zone. My girl is sensitive and forward - it was a bit of shocker actually after riding schoolies, even "forward" schoolies prior so I can understand the underlying anxiety. But she, and Jasper by the sounds, are good horses with good minds. Given the entire circumstance I can't think of a better or safer opportunity for you to push the limit. If he regularly rides those trails as well you've already got a massive head start! Picture of Jasper? ^>^


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## redbadger

Kalraii said:


> It sounds like a safe deal - you will have people around you that can assist and your trainer ofc if you feel out of your comfort zone. My girl is sensitive and forward - it was a bit of shocker actually after riding schoolies, even "forward" schoolies prior so I can understand the underlying anxiety. But she, and Jasper by the sounds, are good horses with good minds. Given the entire circumstance I can't think of a better or safer opportunity for you to push the limit. If he regularly rides those trails as well you've already got a massive head start! Picture of Jasper? ^>^


I've ridden him a fair number of times (he's the happy fool who gave me my first canter) just not worked as extensively as with Toby, nor in the ring... I think with a lot of time we could do pretty well. No, Jasper's not wild, he's just like "we're going out? Well, what're you waiting for? We haven't got all day, let's GO." 

And here he is:


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## QtrBel

I think you are over thinking things. You have the basics down, you enjoy the trails, the mental therapy a horse provides is being handed to you. No reason to spend time in the ring for anything but the lessons and have a goal that makes the lessons something the horse will enjoy as well. Plenty of games that build skills. Not endless circles. If you feel safe and your surgery has healed then take what is offered and enjoy yourself. 



Now time to see pics of you on Jasper.


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## redbadger

QtrBel said:


> I think you are over thinking things. You have the basics down, you enjoy the trails, the mental therapy a horse provides is being handed to you. No reason to spend time in the ring for anything but the lessons and have a goal that makes the lessons something the horse will enjoy as well. Plenty of games that build skills. Not endless circles. If you feel safe and your surgery has healed then take what is offered and enjoy yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> Now time to see pics of you on Jasper.



You're right. It's in my nature to overthink. :lol:


Every day I get to ride is a good day to ride. It's been rough at work - I think I'll go play with the horses today.


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## QtrBel

I have been spending more time with our crew and getting those that have had too little time spent on them working towards being good saddle citizens. Helps destress.


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## redbadger

Jasper's truly handsome when you get a decent photo of him. :lol:

We had a good ride, trotted and did a canter, off to a good start for the month.


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## lb27312

@redbadger - you two make a handsome pair!! I hope it works out! Good to see a picture of the two of you...


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## Queenofsomethinghopefully

He's gorgeous! I hope it goes well


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## QtrBel

I was thinking the same. Y'all look good together. May you have many happy miles! His build suggests draft.


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## redbadger

QtrBel said:


> I was thinking the same. Y'all look good together. May you have many happy miles! His build suggests draft.



Thank you!


Yes, the general guess (he was bought at auction 7 or 8 years ago by the barn owner, so no one actually knows) is that he's a draft cross of some kind. About 16 (16.1?) Big feet, big neck, big Roman nose. My trainer's suggested maybe saddlebred or walking horse in there somewhere, just from how smooth he is and how he moves (and sometime I'll try and take video, because I can't really *see* what he's doing, just feel it.)


He just makes everyone look good.


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## redbadger

So I'm into my fourth month of leasing Jasper. His gal is back, so we're both leasing now - she comes so rarely, we never run into each other. Jasper and I can go out by ourselves now, and it suits him well - he doesn't have to wait for anyone else. We walk, trot, and canter, and go exploring (within the confines of the town land, which is pretty big). We've crossed the river, and gotten mildly to moderately lost. It was very much a good decision to lease him.


I told my instructor, out of everything he has taught me, or will teach me, above all he's teaching me courage. 



I rode on my birthday (Monday) alone for almost two hours, and same today. The deer flies were so terrible Monday, that I doused myself in heavy-duty bug spray, doused him, and - since mint repels some insects - grabbed some sprigs from my yard and stuffed them in my boots, my pockets, and wove some into his mane. He looked like a stray from a poorly-budgeted fantasy film, but it did seem to keep the biting flies away, so that was better. We found a good spot to have a decent canter (maybe 100 yards - it's longer than the other stretches we've done). It's much fun, and we are having a good time together, I think. I don't think he'd run like he does - as long and as eagerly as he does - if he didn't enjoy it.


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## lb27312

@redbadger - Happy Belated Birthday!! :happy-birthday8::happy-birthday8: Sounds like you had a good one with the ride.... I'll have to try the mint trick! 

Sounds like the lease is going awesome and I'm glad you can continue with it.... he does sound like a great confidence booster.


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## ACinATX

I guess I missed the pictures you posted to this thread before. He's a very handsome boy and you two look great together! I'm glad you're doing so well with him.


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## redbadger

lb27312 said:


> @*redbadger* - Happy Belated Birthday!! :happy-birthday8::happy-birthday8: Sounds like you had a good one with the ride.... I'll have to try the mint trick!
> 
> Sounds like the lease is going awesome and I'm glad you can continue with it.... he does sound like a great confidence booster.



Thanks! It was a pleasant and low-stress day. 



I mean, I was doused in 40% DEET spray *and* he had bug spray on, so I can't say the mint made a world of difference, but it's free and plentiful, so why not? Every little bit to keep us both from being eaten alive. :O


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## redbadger

ACinATX said:


> I guess I missed the pictures you posted to this thread before. He's a very handsome boy and you two look great together! I'm glad you're doing so well with him.



He really is! Now that the rest of his winter coat has shed out, he's even more stunning, especially in the sun - the hair right above his hooves and fetlocks is close to copper, and it shines like nothing else. He's a fine old gentleman.


My smartwatch clocked him/us at 10.7mph, and I bet if he had space - like when the beach rides are available (can't right now, d/t covid and nesting birds) - he could get to 11 or 12mph. I hope we can do that sometime.


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## redbadger

So, I took Jasper out today and he was ... um. More spirited than he usually is. A lot more. And I enjoy trotting and cantering, but *he's* not the one who has to worry about the overhead in the woods.


So I came back, asking "what did you feed him for breakfast? Red Bull?" 



Pretty much, actually: he's been a little off for a couple of weeks (sluggish, kinda disinterested), and could stand to gain some weight, so he's been on senior feed. Turns out, he's been switched over to this stuff called fuel. Well, *that* explains it. No wonder we covered 5 miles in under an hour and a half...


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## redbadger

There was ... upset, at the barn, last night (arguments), which rather dampened the mood, but according to my smart-watch, the last couple of rides Jasper's hit or exceeded 11mph, which is pretty cool. It was humid and muddy yesterday, so I was surprised he hit speed again, since we didn't get any good stretches in. Been eyeballing the berry bushes (blueberries, blackberries or/or black raspberries) on the powerline hill and the gas line hill and thinking about bringing a little bag up there if I can reach 'em before the birds do.


Hopefully things simmer down by Wednesday, when I ride next. Yikes. (the arguing has nothing to do with me, it was mainly over whether or not the woman who primarily takes care of feeding, watering, and stall-cleaning does her job properly, and there is some validity to the argument that she doesn't, but it's also a discussion I very much do not want to get roped into. I just want to enjoy horse time.)


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## QtrBel

If it is Proforce Fuel it is controlled starch/low sugar and high fat formula for metabolic issues and hard keepers. Max calories for minimum pounds feed but of the "cool" kind.

Hate that kind of barn drama. That's one to me that needs to he private. If you board or lease you lodge your complaint privately and the BO checks behind the complaints to see if warranted then handles the consequences in private.


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## redbadger

QtrBel said:


> If it is Proforce Fuel it is controlled starch/low sugar and high fat formula for metabolic issues and hard keepers. Max calories for minimum pounds feed but of the "cool" kind.
> 
> Hate that kind of barn drama. That's one to me that needs to he private. If you board or lease you lodge your complaint privately and the BO checks behind the complaints to see if warranted then handles the consequences in private.



Yes, I believe that's what it is. Jasper is older and, like I said, could stand to put on a bit of weight (he's not hugely obviously underweight - you've seen the photos of him) and keep it there, especially when he's working on the line. But it gave him a bit more spirit than I anticipated. As long as he doesn't accidentally take me into a branch, we'll be alright. I don't mind the spirit so much, as long as he still listens (he is) and we're having a good time.



I think this argument has been a while building. While I think there's merit to it (cleaning the water tubs and not waiting all day to fill them has come up a lot, and that's all the horses including the hack line herds), I'm also not the one cleaning stalls and filling water tubs for x dollars a day in New England weather. And the BO can be ... um ... tetchy, let's say. So I don't want to be corralled (hah!) by anyone on any side of this issue.


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## redbadger

30 seconds of unadulterated nonsense: playing "hide and seek" with Jasper while he cools off after our ride.


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## redbadger

Honestly I'm mostly here to report we're having a good time. Yesterday and today my watch clocked Jasper at 12.3 and 12.5mph respectively (I wasn't trying to push him, either), and he's wanted to make some extra turns that give us more time, so my sense is he's feeling pretty good. Speaking of turns, we've made some turns at the canter (intersections on the trail) and not fallen off. Yesterday, I was thinking well, I'm feeling pretty good myself, pretty balanced, why not try a little canter without stirrups? Last time I'd tried the trot in the ring it had been rather ... humbling. But that was early in the pandemic, and we've been riding a lot together during the least. So I tried, actually I did it twice (near the end of the ride) and it went nicely. Same thing today - a little more wobbly the first go-round, but I was probably thinking too hard.


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## QtrBel

So glad you're getting to enjoy ride time! The skills come when the time is put in and you have a good partner. You have both.


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## redbadger

So we had some significant winds from Isaias - worse in the western part of the state, medium where I am and where the barn is - so there's quite a few trees and branches down. My riding instructor was warning me to be careful - not only is there a ton of debris, the terrain is a bit slick in spots, and Jasper has been a bit off the last week and we're not totally sure why. There's a tree - a little skinny pine tree, you know the sort that's all bristly dead branches except for the very top - downed directly across one of the trails that's a favorite spot to canter. So my riding instructor told me to keep it light and also, not to trot over the downed tree because it'd cut his legs up. Sounded fine by me. 



The way out was fine. He walked over it. The way back, though ... well, he didn't trot over it, which is good. 



He jumped it instead, because he is a knucklehead. 



For some reason, I didn't anticipate this as an option, and he's only jumped an object once with me, but I stayed on and we were fine. I felt bad for not keeping him to a sensible walk. I did try. I failed. Sigh. 



However, it should be noted that if he wasn't feeling off, the notion of jumping an object is not completely terrifying, and I would have been less annoyed with myself and enjoyed it more. I am unhappy that he is feeling off and I'm not sure what's wrong - I asked my instructor if she thought it was my riding (because most of the public trail rides are walk or walk/trot, where I take him out for an hour and a half of w/t/c) and she insists it's not. She says there are other people from the barn who ride him much harder than I do, but I still feel bad, and I said if she asked, I wouldn't mind taking time off from him. He'd still be doing trail rides, but like I said those are usually walk rides for an hour, versus out regular 1.5-2hr adventures.


Anyway, I want him to feel better.


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## redbadger

Well, Jasper is pretty badly sore right now - or he was, as of Thursday. Ordinarily, when we come to a trotting/cantering spot, he picks right up and needs to be reminded to wait for my cue. But no, he didn't even attempt it. This horse has never in all the time I've known him not wanted to trot at least once. But he was so miserable, and this was on the easier side of the woods, virtually all flat. My trainer thinks he's got a popped splint and this might have been going on for a while, he's just so enthusiastic and stoic that he didn't let on. I feel awful. I keep thinking it must be my fault, riding him out alone and w/t/c, though my trainer says it's (most likely) not to do with me or how we ride. I am nonetheless deeply upset by it. (and I'm a hockey player - I understand Jasper wanting to just keep going through whatever hurts, I've done that too.) And unfortunately, the treatment should be rest, but he's a working horse, so even if I don't ride him - and I can't do that to him - he still has to do trail rides when they need him, so I don't know when he'll get better. I'm afraid he *won't* get better. 



On top of that, even though I know it's entirely unfounded - he really started acting his hurt the same day I decided I would file an application with an equine adoption agency to maybe adopt a horse (I say maybe: lots of people want the horse in question, and the horses are in a training showcase that goes to auction at the end of a 3-day competition, which means whoever has the deepest pockets can get her), which makes me feel like a black cloud (as we say in EMS). Again, I know it's ridiculous and it's only correlation, but it does make me feel terrible.


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## ACinATX

Just imagine, though, if you had your own horse you wouldn't have to feel bad about other people riding her even though she's in pain. I know that at the first sign of pain you would stop riding and get to the bottom of the problem. You would know that she is being taken care of. And of course with a rescue horse, you would additionally be taking a horse that had a bad history. So maybe you should look at it the other way -- his injury is showing you how you could take care of a horse, if you owned it.

I think it's great that you're looking at rescues. I know a lot of people, including honestly me, hesitate with them a bit since (depending on the rescue I suppose) you never truly own the horse. I still hope to take a rescue horse one day, once we get our own land. Anyways, you didn't ask for advice but I'd say don't get too focused on this one horse. Most horse rescues get a handful or two of new horses every month, depending on their size, so even if this one doesn't work out for you, there's another one on the way.


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## redbadger

Of course - which would be great. For the moment Jasper is who I've got (and, rather selfishly, if he doesn't get better I have no one, because Tobes is a) owned and b) also hurt, and none of the other line/lesson horses are suitable for me, if only size-wise). So I worry and I'm upset that I contributed somehow. 

So this horse is part of a trainer face-off where trainers pick adoptable horses and train them for 100 days. This culminates in the final competition and auction. It's a very cool process. My trainer's daughter had actually told my trainer about this mare, and she is lovely and I totally understand why she will likely go for a lot. (And I'm happy the rescue would get that much.) Apparently horses in this contest usually go between 2k and 3k, which was more doable. 

I'm open to options. I try to broaden my searches because I feel like I'm looking for a unicorn, and horses seem to show up in waves. Most of the other horses in the contest are too small (short or fine build), or too much horse. I certainly don't *need* a horse in the sense I won't die without my own, so it's not an urgent process. (I just feel like I cursed my buddy somehow.)


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## redbadger

I'm pleased to report that Jasper is feeling better. I rode him Wednesday - on the regular 1-hour route, trying not to do anything major - and he was full of beans, perhaps to excess. He doesn't quite grasp the concept of "light work" - but we're out, he seems to say, we're out, no one is around us, why aren't we GOING? And he didn't seem sore when we got back. We ended up going out twice - we were supposed to drag for a trail ride, but the customers did a no-show, so we just went back out. I'm riding him again on Monday. Typically, things get less busy once school starts - lots of people still come on weekends for foliage, but the weekdays aren't as crowded. We'll see how that works with COVID.


As for the adoption - it turned out, the mare I was interested in couldn't be auctioned off, because she had a swollen stifle. According to the agency, they'll rest her for 3-6 months and re-evaluate her then, to see if she's still suitable to be adopted out in the regular way. That's a tough situation for her and her trainer and the rescue. So maybe I will be a candidate, or maybe I'll find a horse elsewhere, or maybe not. It would be very nice to have my own partner, but Jasper is still strong and steady. I'll just keep looking and see what happens.


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## redbadger

In an unexpected turn of events, the adoption agency auctioned off the mare anyway, and she went for $3700, so I've been a little salty about that for a couple of weeks. I don't think it was very fair of them. I'm trying to take it as "what's done is done", but it was frustrating and doesn't make me feel very good about the agency. I am still looking at horses, semi-casually. It would be nice to have a long-term partner. I love Jasper and he's healthy for now, though. (and my heart fears making decisions and being trampled on. I am not sure if I have the strength right now, in the pandemic.)


We are doing well. While he seems to be feeling better, I promised him we wouldn't go up the powerlines until his feet are done (he's due Friday), so we're on the regular, less-wild trails by the co-op farm. I've been trying to ride as much of our rides as possible without stirrups - I think it helps me feel the way he moves, and then ultimately my balance is better and I get stronger. I don't always drop them when cantering, because I'm still working on that (but getting better!), and my own nervousness. I am glad I didn't on Monday - he was full of beans, and when I gave him a bit of a squeeze when cantering to see if he wanted to go a little bigger, he absolutely flew. I wish my watch had been running, to catch how fast he was. It was quite a feeling. Might want to try it again sometime. (makes me wish we could do the beach ride - my trainer tells me he loves it and really moves with the long stretch of beach and nothing in his way.)


I think - aside from that his canter is as smooth as it is - he was good for me to start (and keep learning) to canter on is that he seems (I don't have a horse brain) to love running so much. I think he gets a kind of joy out of it, so I'm happy to oblige him (when it's safe).


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## lb27312

@redbadger - sorry you lost out on the mare, maybe it wasn't meant to be? Don't be too soured from it. It will happen. In the meantime it sounds like you are getting so far with Jasper and getting more confidence which is a good thing! I like to hear about your cantering stories....


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## redbadger

lb27312 said:


> @*redbadger* - sorry you lost out on the mare, maybe it wasn't meant to be? Don't be too soured from it. It will happen. In the meantime it sounds like you are getting so far with Jasper and getting more confidence which is a good thing! I like to hear about your cantering stories....



I have mixed feelings when I spot a horse for sale that I like, and then they're gone the next day. It's good that I'm getting better at spotting suitable horses with good conformation, but not so good that they all get bought up. Clearly the pandemic hasn't stopped this part of the economy (not here, anyhow). :lol: 



Jasper is a pretty wonderful guy! I had a very hard time stopping him Monday, though - which is entirely my fault, I asked him to go faster, knowing he was full of beans - so we'll try to stick to regular speeds. There is much to see and enjoy no matter what speed we go. We've seen the co-op farm's goats (he doesn't like those, two of them are escape artists and I worry he'll punt one), deer, birds of all kinds, dogs (and their people), we saw a mountain biker (who was extremely courteous), and we've even seen a horse and rider we didn't know at all (i.e. not from our barn). 



The local trail riding association is hosting a Halloween ride in the nearby state forest, and my instructor is trying to convince the barn owner to let people go (it's on a Sunday), and she said that if it's allowed I can go with Jasper. I'm excited to maybe ride in a different place and dress up to do it.


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## lb27312

@redbadger - How's it going on your search? Any luck? Just checking.....


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## redbadger

lb27312 said:


> @redbadger - How's it going on your search? Any luck? Just checking.....


Not super well. A lot of places are well out of my price range (even for horses they've had for months, or sold and had returned and are re-selling). My trainer's right when she points out Jasper's a spoiler horse - aside from not being a graceful dressage-y horse, he really does most anything you put him toward, within reason. 

There is a place in CT with some nice-looking horses, and they are not at all far (like an hour and a half), so my trainer & I might go on a field trip sometime. She's known people who've bought from them before and says they're a little higher than my range, but open to negotiation. 

So it's been a bit of a disappointing search. Compounding that, my dad & I had a good line on a lovely standard poodle, who was being rehomed d/t pancreatitis, but the owner decided to place him with a vet tech instead. So it's been something like 5 very long months dogless. (We've gotten poodles the last three dogs b/c dad is allergic to regular dog fur.) It feels like we'll never find a dog, or a horse.


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## redbadger

I've finally gotten a bit of video over the past couple of weeks. I should note, for the record, that Jasper is not a fan of the ring. Also, for this one, I had to prop the camera in a corner of the ring, so there's a couple minutes of me setting up, and some waiting at points for Jasper to come into view. 










On the trail, he's been grand. My watch has clocked him at 16.6 and 16.1mph in recent days.


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## MeditativeRider

Sorry you are having issues with the dog and horse hunt. We have been dog-less since our border terrier (he was a re-home that we got) died in early May, and my daughter would commiserate with you. I don't mind waiting so much. We are hopefully getting a puppy (Irish terrier) in Dec but will see if it actually works out. We got offered another border terrier puppy not long after ours died but turned it down as it was not the right time. 

Hopefully a poodle turns up for you soon.


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## redbadger

MeditativeRider said:


> Sorry you are having issues with the dog and horse hunt. We have been dog-less since our border terrier (he was a re-home that we got) died in early May, and my daughter would commiserate with you. I don't mind waiting so much. We are hopefully getting a puppy (Irish terrier) in Dec but will see if it actually works out. We got offered another border terrier puppy not long after ours died but turned it down as it was not the right time.
> 
> Hopefully a poodle turns up for you soon.



I did actually go to a sales barn last weekend. They didn't have exactly what I was looking for, but they struck me as sensible and honest people, and I've heard good things from others. It was an interesting experience, not least to ride in a ring on a strange horse in front of a stranger. :lol: I've also talked to my dad about the prospect of buying a horse. I'm going to get in touch with the sales barn again and let them know what I'm looking for and if ever they have anything fitting that description, I'd like to go down and check 'em out. They're a little over my proposed budget, but apparently they can be flexible and I might be able to get my dad to kick in some of the cost.


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## redbadger

Still looking for my own companion, but Jasper and I are coming along. He is, however, a madman, and I am a fool for not recognizing this consistently. Storms passed through last night, leaving a number of small trees down across the trail. All big enough and awkward enough that we need to go around them. On the way back home, though, we'd just finished a canter down the pipeline corridor and come into the woods at a trot, down to a quick walk, and _I_ intended us to go around the deadfall, like we'd done on the way out. Jasper, however, decided to tighten his buns and hunker his hind-end and launch himself over a chest-high (for him, at 16.1) obstacle, something I did not anticipate at all. We're both fine, thank god, I didn't fall (just came forward very ungracefully), he seems okay - I was just terrified he'd hurt himself somehow. And I felt horrible for not exerting control over our shared brain cell, but I just - I didn't think "jump the trees" was in any way an option.


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## redbadger

Due to my own lack of competence, Jasper jumped the deadfall again on Wednesday, this time at a canter. I just couldn't slow him down. I love that he's got the Happy and he wants to run - I do not love that I felt like I was getting taken along for the ride. If I could take a jump like that safely, _and_ it was my choice to do it, it'd be fun, I think, but it's too big and too scary right now. So, we're going to ride with my instructor on Monday and probably a few more times to work on reminding Jasper which one of us has opposable thumbs and binocular vision and therefore controls our shared brain cell. 

I will say, from outside my disappointment in myself, that his physical abilities are remarkable. When I think about him taking a obstacle as tall as his chest, from nearly a dead stop, and clearing it without a scuff, I am in awe. That would be like me doing a 3-foot box jump at the gym. Even clearing it at a run is just ludicrous to imagine - not a pause or a sniff, he just flew over it. I know professional riders take entire courses of jumps like this (even regular amateur riders), I just still think a 25-year-old horse who half the barn thinks can't/won't even canter (sneaky old man) bounding a deadfall like he does it every day (he does not) is still pretty impressive.


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## lb27312

Yikes that does sound a little scary since it wasn't your choice to do the jump... but glad you came out of it okay! Sounds like you are enjoying Jasper a lot.


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## redbadger

lb27312 said:


> Yikes that does sound a little scary since it wasn't your choice to do the jump... but glad you came out of it okay! Sounds like you are enjoying Jasper a lot.


No, it definitely wasn't! But I didn't fall or even lose a stirrup, so I suppose that's something. I despaired to a friend of mine, and she reminded me that it's not necessarily a bad thing to have a willing horse, which is true. It does mean if I ever learn to ride a bigger jump, we'd be alright. It's not at all his fault for jumping - it's mine for not having enough control to hold him back. He just has the Happy, and ultimately that's better than when he was sore and trudging and sad.


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## walkinthewalk

Mehbee you ought to buy Jasper


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## QtrBel

Is scary when it happens unexpectedly. And then to happen again, at least you recognize your limitations and are making an effort to regain control. My child rides a freight train and it has taken and still takes a reminder to the horse that he's the engine and not the caboose. 

Goes to show how much you have improved and love reading about your rides. Jasper sounds like he makes you happy.


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## redbadger

walkinthewalk said:


> Mehbee you ought to buy Jasper


Ah, believe me, I'd consider it. One, I don't think the barn owner would sell him - he's the largest horse on the line, and he's versatile. Two, he really is in his mid-twenties, and he could be full sound another 5 or 10 years, or ... not. It's hard to say, which is maybe a little harsh of me to say. What I want is Jasper, fifteen years ago, or a time machine, but neither of those things are in my price range. A twelve year old horse that does what he does, with the build that he has, is probably - around here - more than $8000. 

(I want Jasper to live forever. Almost as much as I want my instructor's horse to live forever.)


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## redbadger

QtrBel said:


> Is scary when it happens unexpectedly. And then to happen again, at least you recognize your limitations and are making an effort to regain control. My child rides a freight train and it has taken and still takes a reminder to the horse that he's the engine and not the caboose.
> 
> Goes to show how much you have improved and love reading about your rides. Jasper sounds like he makes you happy.


It's scary, but it's also good to know that it's not so absolutely terrifying that I never want to get on again. Like, a couple of years ago, if Toby had run out on me, I would've been scared to death. Now, Jasper does it, and I think ok, I need to solve this problem, so we can keep riding and not die. And maybe sometime, if I get better at it and we _both_ want to, maybe we'll jump another fallen tree or two together. 

I do love him. He's a madman and possibly a forest spirit in horse form. I feel oddly privileged that he canters for me, since half the barn seems to think he won't or can't, and he doesn't for a lot of people. Although, as noted over the last week or so, we could stand to, perhaps, not run quite so enthusiastically. :lol: I think he feels comfortable and happy (insofar as horses feel happy) enough to do it, and that makes me happy, too.


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## walkinthewalk

Well, here’s my Pearl of Wisdom

As a child, mom was always having to tell me “A Watchpot Never Boils”. It took over a year before my granddad found a horse he felt was safe for a 12 year old but also had enough “motor” to keep me happy

Jasper seems to connect to you and you have a great light hearted-after-the-fact-manner of handling his “sins” and relaying the adventure 

Maybe you should stop actively looking for your own horse. You have REALLY grown as a rider/handler and I’m pretty sure Jasper recognizes that and prefers you over the people who can’t make him canter

Sadly you will never find another horse like Jasper - you might come close but he can never be replicated.

There are those of us who truly have been blessed to have that one special “once in a lifetime” horse come into our lives; and we don’t always recognize that heart horse early on. I have loved each and everyone of my horses to the depths of my soul but it was Bonafide Genius, aka Duke who stole it for the 24 years I was privileged to care for him.

There will never be another Duke, there will never be another Jasper. I understand the risk of buying a horse his age when you are so young (I’m 73, that makes you “so young”).

Maybe you could convince the owner to give you an exclusive lease on Jasper, stating all the reasons why he is a better lease horse for you and you alone - he won’t canter for others for starters

Besides, we love hearing about the “Adventures of Red Badger & Jasper“ 🐎🐎


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## lb27312

@walkinthewalk - That was sooo well written! Hard to add anything to that! I have that once in a life time horse that you refer to... whew!


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## ACinATX

walkinthewalk said:


> Besides, we love hearing about the “Adventures of Red Badger & Jasper“ 🐎🐎


"Jasper and the Red Badger." It could be a book!


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## redbadger

@walkinthewalk - I tell you, if Terry (the barn owner) would sell him, I would buy him. He does canter for other people, just not all the time, and I probably ride him the most of anybody, even his other leaser. I mentioned it to one of the young women at the barn and she said if it was just me taking care of him and he wasn't on the hack line (6-7hrs a day of the public in summer), he'd be happy as a clam for a long, long time yet. But I just don't think the barn owner would ever sell him, even if I leased him back. (Granted, I haven't asked...) 

Due to weather and work I had a long (week and a half) time off, but we went out yesterday and it went alright. We went with my instructor and another woman on Baby. Baby is a spicy old Arabian gal who needs to go last because she is a proper lady who doesn't like anyone within sighting distance of her backside, so I ended up taking the lead. It was just walk-trot, and Jasper mostly behaved himself with care. No major obstacles, just a nice meander through the woods. 

After we got back, there was enough light for a little bit of time bareback in the ring. It was only my second time, and I'm still ENORMOUSLY nervous - but I mounted up all by myself this time! We are still closely supervised by my instructor, but she said she wanted to give me some space to try on my own at least to mount up. I got better when I started singing my riding songs to him (I made them up to sing on the trail) and calmed down. We even did some serpentines around ground poles. It's fun, once I don't panic - and very interesting, just to feel how his body moves without the saddle and the pads. I hope to get better at it. I don't think I'll ever be as brave as these guys: 










But I can hope. ;D


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## walkinthewalk

Ok, @redbadger, you need to watch Stacy Westfall win the 2006 tackless reining championship

I have watched this a hundred times and can never watch it without having a box of Kleenex close by. Partly because of the elegance and “oneness” between horse and rider, and partly because she lost her father 24 days before this ride and dedicated it to his memory.

I am (make that was) a way better than average bareback rider. I started out at nine or ten, riding bareback behind my older cousin, at breakneck speed, thru our grandmother’s woods. She could ride like the wind and somehow always managed to hang onto me, if I started to slide going around a turn on the trail.

More than one person has asked if I had Velcro on my butt after sliding down a muddy river bank and digging up the other side, or digging up a steep power line with arms wrapped around the horse’s neck and hoping I didn’t slide off its rump before we got to the top, lol. I can say, I was never anywhere close to the bareback rider Stacy Westfall is

She also has a website and I think a podcast.






I think you have one marvelous trainer to give you the freedom to try new things with Jasper. Once you get your confidence up and find your seat, you may never want to use a saddle again

You have talent and good sense/instinct - I hope the money is always there for whatever riding level you want to pursue


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## ACinATX

I love riding bareback. There is some discomfort for me -- Pony is as flat as a board and three times as wide, so without a saddle my legs tend to get cranked out at an odd angle, and Teddy has a bony spine (I just use a bareback pad plus two saddle pads now LOL), but I still love it. I think you could grow to really like it if you did it more. Just take it slowly!

Plus, frankly, the less tack I have to deal with, the better. And the less you use in the way of saddling, the less time you have to spend cleaning your horse off before riding! Oh, and also, in the winter (I'm sure you've noticed, given where you live) it's nice to be sitting on something warm!


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## redbadger

Jasper, being an old man has quite the prominent spine, as in, it seats precisely into my backside. It is ... awkward? Like, he's not a sofa, unlike some of the horses. He's also comparatively high-withered. 










(That's Toby in front of him, relaxing)

So, without a pad, I wouldn't want to go for more than about 20 minutes at a walk, but that's about where I'm at right now. Last week, the terrain was ... rough, that sort partly compacted, slippery snow, and I'm nervy on ordinary ground at a walk so, while I did think about taking a bit of bareback time, I decided against it. We did have a nice ride at a walk, though, on the trails. I don't want to make it sound like I don't enjoy bareback time! I really like it, actually, it's just the underlying lizard brain panicking, even though consciously I know full well it's not the tack that keeps me upright and balanced, it's _me_. It will just take some time. The weather is supposed to hold til Wednesday night, so I'll try again later in the week. Perhaps I will finally get my chance to ride in lush, deep snow. (I have been angling for this since autumn). 

I don't mind tacking him up. I wish his saddle fit him better, but from my admittedly untrained eye he's somewhat difficult to fit and I haven't yet won the lottery to buy him the perfect saddle.

A client of the farrier is selling her horse, a handsome percheron cross who is 16.3 and 16 years old. Much cheaper than the sales barns. Unfortunately, weather has gotten in the way two weeks in a row, so I haven't even met him. Perhaps in the meantime I will win the lottery.


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## fireandicehorse

redbadger said:


> Honestly I'm mostly here to report we're having a good time. Yesterday and today my watch clocked Jasper at 12.3 and 12.5mph respectively (I wasn't trying to push him, either), and he's wanted to make some extra turns that give us more time, so my sense is he's feeling pretty good. Speaking of turns, we've made some turns at the canter (intersections on the trail) and not fallen off. Yesterday, I was thinking well, I'm feeling pretty good myself, pretty balanced, why not try a little canter without stirrups? Last time I'd tried the trot in the ring it had been rather ... humbling. But that was early in the pandemic, and we've been riding a lot together during the least. So I tried, actually I did it twice (near the end of the ride) and it went nicely. Same thing today - a little more wobbly the first go-round, but I was probably thinking too hard.


I am so happy you are enjoying Jasper. I bet he can go much faster than 13 mph, and can probably hit 20 mph. Most horses can hit between 20-30 mph at the gallop, and my Icelandic horses have definitely surpassed 20 mph racing up hills, while my stallion has been clocked at pace races going 29+ mph (the fastest Icelandic recorded in the pace was going 32 mph).


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## redbadger

fireandicehorse said:


> I am so happy you are enjoying Jasper. I bet he can go much faster than 13 mph, and can probably hit 20 mph. Most horses can hit between 20-30 mph at the gallop, and my Icelandic horses have definitely surpassed 20 mph racing up hills, while my stallion has been clocked at pace races going 29+ mph (the fastest Icelandic recorded in the pace was going 32 mph).


My watch tagged him once at 20mph, and if he's feeling good and the terrain's good it'll pick him up at 16-18mph. I'm told he truly flies on the beach - in the woods, obviously, we have much less space to get to speed and slow down safely.


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## lb27312

@redbadger - Ooooh sounds like you may have a promising lead on a horse! Can't wait to hear about him after you get a chance to go see him!

I am the weird one as I DON'T like riding bareback especially on trail... I don't mind tooling around the pasture every now and then with just a rope around the neck... but I just don't feel comfortable on the trail to do it... When I was young I would do it much more but now just don't like it.. and forget trotting ouch! lol


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## QtrBel

My pssm mares started losing muscle there before anything else. Ground work and driving kept it built up better than riding. There just came a point where I couldn't keep up with what was needed and rode in a saddle or with a thick saddle pad that had shims and was sticky. Not meant to be a bareback pad and I rode with just that, no trying to girth it down. Worked fine.


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## redbadger

QtrBel said:


> My pssm mares started losing muscle there before anything else. Ground work and driving kept it built up better than riding. There just came a point where I couldn't keep up with what was needed and rode in a saddle or with a thick saddle pad that had shims and was sticky. Not meant to be a bareback pad and I rode with just that, no trying to girth it down. Worked fine.


I cannot say I'd want to go bareback on a whole trail ride, but it's a learning experience. It's fun in small doses.

Jasper's around 25 (we don't really know, but that's the vet's guess and based on how old he probably was when the BO bought him), he just kinda has an old man build. He was probably never much of a couch to begin with - he's likely always been high-withered. But he is healthy and strong.

@lb27312 - so far, the one ding on his prospect is he has "mild ringbone", which I am a bit leery about. But, the farrier has worked on him a long time and never noticed any issues. I gather his owner's daughter rides him but wants to do hunters but that'd be hard on him. I've talked to several people who say for what I do - enjoying trails a few hours a few days a week, an occasional longer adventure or the St Patrick's parade, he'd be fine for many years yet. 










He is quite the handsome chap. Obviously it also depends on how we get on - he may not be "mine".


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## walkinthewalk

redbadger said:


> - so far, the one ding on his prospect is he has "mild ringbone", which I am a bit leery about. But, the farrier has worked on him a long time and never noticed any issues. I gather his owner's daughter rides him but wants to do hunters but that'd be hard on him. I've talked to several people who say for what I do - enjoying trails a few hours a few days a week, an occasional longer adventure or the St Patrick's parade, he'd be fine for many years yet.


he is very handsome but the “mild ringbone” would be deal breaker for me.

How old is he? If you said, I missed it and I apologize. I sense he is younger as several people have told you “he’d be fine for many years yet”. I have dealt with high ringbone in the past, and currently low ringbone in my metabolic horse that foundered in 2012.

Neither horse developed ringbone until they were in their 20’s, I lost the first fella when he was 27, in the mid-80’s.

It was discovered on my current horse this past Spring on the top of the P3 and inside the hoof near the coronet band. He is 25. He is metabolic, Cushings and has some other issues.

Maybe ringbone is common in bigger draft-type horses at an early age, but I will say handsome and no matter how perfect the horse is otherwise, the progression of ringbone can never be predicted.

It was a painful thing to watch my horse of the 80’s struggle to get up from a good roll due to the pain the ringbone caused him. Back then there wasn’t a lot that could be done and it had progressed quickly so I made the horrid decision to lay him to rest.

My current horse doesn‘t have near the pain level he had six months ago and that is because I spend a LOT of $$$ on things to keep him comfortable.

He has to wear shoes and pads for the residual founder issues. The farrier recently switched him to the Versa shoes which are a pliable plastic material and they have done wonders to help.

I also have this horse on a couple of supplements for arthritis that are not cheap. Now that the nights are colder, I wrap his legs with quilts when he comes in at night to keep his circulation up - something the lameness vet had told me to years ag, when he foundered.

*****

If you go look at that beautiful horse, please realize “mild ringbone “ will not stay in it’s current mild state forever. It gradually worsens, the same as Cushings does but that progression can vary with each horse AND the level of care they receive. By level of care, I mean how much money are you willing to spend on a horse that may end up not rideable sooner than later?

After all that ^^^^ if you still like the horse, find a disinterested vet clinic (one that has never seen the horse) that can x-ray those hooves (all four of them), and get the opinion of that vet (hopefully a lameness vet) based on the work level you expect from the horse.

In this case, I don‘t care about the opinions of any of the people offering them up to you. They aren’t the ones who will have to foot the bills or watch the horse in discomfort and none of them are lameness vets

Please don’t be mad, I’m just trying to save you some heartache. They are selling the horse due to the ringbone. They are telling you about it because they know it will show up in x-rays and that makes them more on the honest side than the dishonest


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## redbadger

Not at all! That long term is what worries me - will he just have some sore days, or will he be crippled in short order? He is sixteen, I am told, so neither very young nor very old. I am to understand that high ringbone has a better prognosis than low, but I don't want to be immediately on the hook for an unrideable horse. I don't know if it's a recent development or not. The farrier's judgement I trust because he's been at this a while (40+ years) and also has no particular reason to sell me on a specific horse or not. Beyond that, everyone is suspect.


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## walkinthewalk

From my two experiences, he is on the young side to develop ringbone.

There are things for treatment today that weren’t available in the 80’s when I first dealt with ringbone.

Another consideration is what happens when the horse does reach the point where he can’t be ridden? You might still be boarding, therefore not financially in a position to put him to pasture and still buy another horse. Selling him would likely mean a cruel death sentence, so he would have to be PTS’d.

Its a tough decision, as to whether or not to even go look at him. He is a looker. If he goes as good as he looks and is as gentle natured as he is handsome, then you really have to think hard about a future with him and be prepared to put the money into him to keep him comfortable for light riding.

Also, being in the 16 age range, his stocky built self is also prime to develop metabolic issues, so something else to consider


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## redbadger

True. I can't in good conscience keep a lawn ornament at this time, but in 5 or 10 years that situation will probably change. (I mean. I hope. My income is stable, and I make more than many people and in a year when I'm done university I'll have more energy to devote to additional work.) My understanding is that he's at a fancy h/j lesson barn right now, and his owners teenage daughter has been riding him at that level. I would not be riding him at that level, but what is "light"? w/t/c trails a hand of times a week? A walk, once a week?

In an ideal world, of course, I buy Jasper and he lives forever. That, or I finally find that horse I sort of hallucinated one time which may not even exist. (I am not ordinarily that much of a believer in supernatural things, but ... Well.)

He is rather a chonk in that photo. He looks a bit lighter in other photos but wider than Jasper for sure.


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## walkinthewalk

Being a hard core-go-where-no-man-has-ever-gone-before-trail rider, light riding to me means groomed trails such as a metro park. Walking, some trotting, very little cantering. At this stage he could probably handle 4-6 hours once or twice a week, or a couple of walk trot hours daily.

Fury was 27 when I laid him to rest. He was 25 when he rode his last 20 mile organized ride through some fairly rough trails and across a river. He was not showing any symptoms of ringbone and he was never lame after that ride. With him it seemed to blow up during his last two years.

Swimming would be good if the horse didn’t have to slide down a riverbank and dig up the other side - as long as he knows how to swim.

I don’t think my beloved Duke (RIP) could swim. He would cross anything up to his knees but deeper than that and he was having none of it. He was my only horse that did not like big and deep water and I never forced the issue.

Yes, the way to solve this dilemma would be writing a check for Jasper


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## redbadger

Our trails are not wildly hardcore, but not nice groomed bridle paths. Think regular state park hiking trails. 

I suspect that if I were a young woman with a fine behind I'd have better luck buying Jasper... Alas I am not. Granted, I haven't asked, either. The storm is petering out here, so I'm aiming to head over and go for a short ride. Perhaps I will see the barn owner. 

I don't know if Jasper swims, per se. There is a creek we cross that is sometimes up to his belly, but he's so tall.


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## ACinATX

That is a really good looking horse! I was wondering, you say his owner had been doing h/j with him. I may have missed it, but do you know if he even LIKES being on trails? My Teddy loves being in the arena but he just loses it out on trails, especially if he's on his own. I'm sure he's not the only horse like that.


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## redbadger

ACinATX said:


> That is a really good looking horse! I was wondering, you say his owner had been doing h/j with him. I may have missed it, but do you know if he even LIKES being on trails? My Teddy loves being in the arena but he just loses it out on trails, especially if he's on his own. I'm sure he's not the only horse like that.


I believe so, yes. As in, I asked the woman selling him. But, it's been a truly horrendous couple of weeks and I don't remember exactly. However, our farrier probably would not have passed along the info if he wasn't trail-worthy, either. 

Too snowy/cold at the barn to ask any questions today of the barn owner (lots of clearing work, ice breaking, etc). But, I did have a really nice little bareback ride with Jasper - just on the property itself, walking around the parking area and up to the barn owner's house. Was nervous getting up, but felt really good otherwise, seated and centered. It was very beautiful in the snow, too.


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## redbadger

So I went to go see the horse. He is a nice horse. But I just don't feel like he's "mine". He could make someone very happy, I just don't think it's me. I also felt sort of pushed by the seller, and wasn't exactly pleased with the way she disparaged Western tack/saddles (like, I don't have a choice in the kind of tack I use, excuse me for riding in what's available to me). He's also never been off property with them (they take their other horses on hunts), and they bought him a year ago after he sat for 10 years. (he is 16). But honestly I think it just comes down to: this is a nice horse, but he isn't "mine". We've had enough dogs at home that I know what that feeling is and it's just not there. But I chatted with a friend, and I will chat it out with my instructor just to be sure.

I was thinking, off-handedly, if I offered my barn's owner this arrangement: I buy Jasper, for [x], but let him use Jasper for trail rides on my work days (which, being a paramedic, are basically two days/week), and his other leaser (who rides him maybe once a month or so) can use him as long as she calls me in advance. That way, he doesn't entirely lose a trail horse, and I don't take him away from his other leaser, either. I don't know if that would seem reasonable.


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## egrogan

Seems reasonable to me. And, if the BO knows you went to look at a horse for sale, s/he knows you're shopping so it's the perfect time to bring up why Jasper IS the right horse. That's sort of how it worked for me when I bought my first horse- I test rode a bunch of other horses, knowing I had the option to buy Isabel, who I was leasing at the time. All the other horses I test rode just reinforced how Izzy was the right horse for me at that time. I ended up over-paying for her, but I considered it in some ways a donation to the barn (it was a therapeutic riding program that also housed a few boarders), and a price that was worth it to me for the feeling of comfort and confidence I got in her as my first horse.

Good luck if you decide to start the conversation!


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## redbadger

The topic of me buying a horse has come up before, but I'm not sure how actively aware of it the BO is. :lol: Obviously he knows I'm leasing and sees us go out on the regular - heck, he saw us bareback in the snow the other day. I think the big sticking point would be that Jasper is a trail horse _and_ a big horse able to comfortably carry larger, taller people - by far the biggest on the line. He has gotten few new line horses, but they're average size grade horses. (One turned out to have super bad front legs, but one of the boarders fell in love with her and bought her anyhow). (But _I_ am in love with Jasper. Why can't I be someone who falls in love with a line horse and buys them? Is it because I'm not young and nubile? ...maybe. It's been a long few weeks, excuse the flippantry.)

I'll run the idea past my instructor. I'm going to the barn tomorrow anyhow.


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## redbadger

After talking with my instructor, and thinking about it, I think I'm just going to stop looking to buy for a while. Nothing is coming up anyhow, and I can still lease Jasper. It's just not our time for animals - I can't find a horse, dad can't find us a dog... Probably better to just enjoy what I've got.


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## walkinthewalk

Mom always told my anxious self that “a watchpot never boils” 

A dog will find your dad at the most unexpected moment, and you have the cash money ready to pounce on Jasper’s owner when you catch him in a weak moment We all hope it is meant to be that Jasper becomes yours🏇


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## redbadger

I am a little discouraged by our lack of animals. We have no one to scarf dad's food crumbs from his chair or counter-surf. 

He keeps applying for (rescue) dogs (due to allergies, we have breed restrictions and have been looking for another standard poodle), but they keep going to other families... My riding instructor suspects they see an application from a 75 year old single man (albeit I live with him) and figure he's apt to up and die and leave the dog. That is probably true, unfortunately. 

I actually have fairly significant financial assets, I just don't want to spend all of them on a buying horse from the get go. Could I give him $6k for Jasper? Probably. That wouldn't necessarily leave me a lot of leeway for vet costs and board. I'll just keep leasing him and try to find a time machine.


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## walkinthewalk

Well, I sure didn’t have 6K in mind, lollol. BUT it does sound as if you can get your hands on cash pretty quick, so be ready.

The short story of our buying the another 9 acres of this old farm, to give us 24+ acres of the original farm, happened that way, lollol. A real estate friend talked the owner (another real estate person) into selling us the nine acres of unperkable pasture, saying it would be easier to sell the old house on one acre. We were financially ready to jump, not giving the seller time to think too hard. That was 11 years ago and I am still happy as a clam over that swingin’ deal


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## redbadger

Some of that cash is going into a secret (from her) gofundme to help my riding instructor with her horse's vet bills. Antibiotics and steroids are expensive.  (he has EPM)

The slightly odd woman who leases Lavinia offered $6K for her, but she's quite a bit younger, and also I think her first owner (not the barn owner) has some sort of final right of decision on her. I forget where you are, but here (Massachusetts), $3k - $7 seems typical for a sound, trained horse with no vices. (The lady offering the percheron cross had him at $1500, and will put him up for $2500, but he also has ringbone, is herdbound (!!), never been on trails, AND he's only been being worked for a year - they got him from a woman who basically had him as a lawn ornament for 10 years). I can find horses cheaper, further away, but at the moment there's a problem of going to see them, and in the long run the effort and expense of hauling them back. My aunt lives down in MD near a farm that, going off their ads, seems to specialize in draft crosses - if not for COVID, I'd be taking a field trip to see family and detour for horses. A pal from medic school just moved to NJ, where I hear there is a not insignificant horse scene, so maybe when I'm looking for houses for her (it's a fun pasttime and if I find a house they buy, she's promised me a new goalie mask with a paint job) I'll accidentally find a horse. :lol:

I was going to ride him today, but just found out the boss booked a trail ride in that slot, so, here I am, still feeling rather glum about everything.


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## redbadger

Alright: I went out to the barn to give my riding instructor her Christmas present, and rode Jasper bareback around the yard. I feel better about life now. (Especially because my instructor saw me being Very Confident and not tipping or tilting or panicking.)


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## redbadger

We had a pleasant, utterly uneventful ride yesterday. Made up for the terrible day at work Tuesday/Wednesday. It was funny, though, I realized once I mounted up that the last two times I've been on him were both bareback. The saddle felt rather different. :lol: But it was nice. I rode a little bareback after, around the yard. 

The supervisor at work bought a new tub of soft mints - the ones that are basically compressed powdered sugar with mint flavor. I gave Jasper one (just one!) and he was utterly beside himself. Weather will be tough tomorrow, and it might be an ice rink by Saturday, so I don't know quite when I can ride again.


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## redbadger

I noticed something funny: after riding bareback a few times and becoming more comfortable with it, the way I sit in the saddle changed. That is, in the saddle, my body settles more like how I would bareback. 

It being winter, with less daily work, Jasper has more energy than he knows what to do with. So, we've had to go in the Spin Cycle a few times recently. He's not being a jerk, just... Energetic. If the weather holds we'll go on a longer ride or two. 

Up and out of the blue, someone replied to a CL post I made more than a month ago. She's selling a 16h, 16yo grey draft cross, purportedly sound and trailworthy. He is not far, so I'll go see him this week. I am enjoying Jasper-time, though, so if this guy doesn't spark, it is what it is.


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## lb27312

Ohhhhh! Can't wait to hear about the new possibility! Yeah the ponies get a little excited when not being ridden as much and it being colder... it's been a little bit since I've ridden my old guy, can't wait to get on him... lol


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## redbadger

lb27312 said:


> Ohhhhh! Can't wait to hear about the new possibility! Yeah the ponies get a little excited when not being ridden as much and it being colder... it's been a little bit since I've ridden my old guy, can't wait to get on him... lol












This is him. A riding friend said he looked kinda swayback, which may also be the angle. But it's no great fuss to go up and see him, if nothing else it's a lovely drive.


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## lb27312

Oh @redbadger to me he's pretty! But I have a question and please take it with a grain a salt... but did he have a too small of a halter on?


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## walkinthewalk

I don’t see swayback. I am not all all up,to speed on how a Draft or Draft Cross should look physically.

What give me pause in the picture is the “well” in the horse’s top line, plus the fat pads everywhere.

I know Drafts have big necks but that looks like a metabolic neck.

The horse has a really sweet face and kind expression.

If you think you might get serious about the horse, take clear side view picsand try to get some clear pics of the hooves, top and bottom.

I have had two metabolic horses, somI am really gun shy when I see a horse with what looks to be too much of the wrong kind of fat. I hope I’m wrong, but it’s. Heads up at the very least


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## redbadger

lb27312 said:


> Oh @redbadger to me he's pretty! But I have a question and please take it with a grain a salt... but did he have a too small of a halter on?


It looks like an indent in the winter fuzz. I haven't gone to see him yet, this is the owner's photo.


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## ACinATX

Wow, you have a knack for finding lookers! What a face that guy has! He's too cute!

I am, however, with @walkinthewalk about his weight. It's the first thing that jumped out at me. My Pony has been called obese (I think he's just kind of fat) but this guy is way over that. And this is how he looks in the winter, when most horses lose weight! 

If / when you go to see him, I'd ask what they are feeding him. Maybe they're just over-feeding him and if you cut down on it he'll be fine. I'd also have someone who knows what they are doing take a really good look at his feet, for signs of laminitis.

But wow he's beautiful. Really beautiful.


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## redbadger

Very good points about his weight/metabolic! I will take them into account. Hopefully it's just a too much food/not as much work situation.

















These are the other two photos I have. She sent me some video where his feet are visible (dratted snow) but it's a bit grainy. I will take an up-close look at feet and feeding when I go tomorrow.


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## walkinthewalk

Well —- I see the sway back now

It could just be who he is, and hopefully doesn’t continue to worsen.

Orrrrrr, it could be muscle loss due to Cushings which has or has not been diagnosed, and hopefully doesn’t get worse.

I‘ll bet he is o e of the sweetest horses to come down the pike which is why you cannot be swayed by emotion more than logic.

Agree to take someone experienced with you who can recognize founder issues in the hooves and hopefully has experience recognizing metabolic issues.

Look the person dead in the eye and hold their eyes to yours when you ask why they are selling the horse.

on this horse, I feel it would be prudent to include blood work to check iMuslim levels and ACTH. That’s two viles of blood and probably not at all cheap in your area. 

Also, if you see Jasper or the other horses before you look at this guy, run your hand gently under Jasper’s throat and behind the cheek bones to feel for his glands. Jasper is healthy so you shouldn’t feel any enlargements. Do the same thing with this gray horse. Not feeling any enlargements still may not mean anything but i5 sure will mean metabolic issues if you feel enlarged glands.

Both my metabolic horses developed enlarged glands.


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## redbadger

All this could be avoided if I could figure out how to make Jasper live forever. 

I mean, nearly all the horses I've met have had lovely personalities. I just haven't felt a spark with them. That could very well be true with him as well. The perch cross was lovely but couldn't do what I want to do. (Tho like, the lady selling him legitimately laughed at me when I asked about metabolic health so...) This guy may be the same. The owner's story is she is selling all her equines - this guy, a QH, and a mini - because of personal/financial issues (times are tough). 

I am trying to take this all casually. It's not like medications or a car - I don't _need_ to own a horse, it would simply be nice to have my own buddy who can't be borrowed for trail rides 4 days a week of summer. It would also be nice to have a buddy who doesn't think doing 10 minutes of patterns in the ring once a month is horrible torture. But I am not showing and I don't need a working horse, so que sera, sera as it is. 

Hopefully, he is sweet, sound, and just a bit of a chub from overeating. 


















After all this here are some shots of Jasper.


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## walkinthewalk

Jasper is handsome -very - very - handsome


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## redbadger

The face of a man who is categorically unimpressed. I brought him in and gave him a couple flakes of hay. He looked at the grain bucket in the stall, looked at me, poked the grain bucket, looked at me, then picked up the hay and dropped it into the other corner.


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## walkinthewalk

As the old song goes --- "he's got personality!"

It doesn't hurt that Jasper is in my favorite color hue

You need to catch his owner in a weak moment, with cash in your pocket


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## redbadger

walkinthewalk said:


> As the old song goes --- "he's got personality!"
> 
> It doesn't hurt that Jasper is in my favorite color hue
> 
> You need to catch his owner in a weak moment, with cash in your pocket


At twenty-five (would you believe it?) he's earned a personality. 

He really does look good in any kind of weather. Chestnut is the new black?


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## redbadger

He's chunky. So are his roommates. (The QH and the mini). They're all barefoot and need their feet done. The footing in the seller's yard is awful. He looks sound though - not stiff or off. He's sweet but hasn't been worked in months. I will say he settled into being ridden fairly quickly, for not having done much but poop and eat for 5 months. However, it took 15 minutes and two people to put a bridle on him (saddle he was fine) and he just ... I think he's more of a project (willing, but way out of practice) than I strictly want to take on.


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## QtrBel

If the only thing is bridging that can be worked on. If you decided to consider then a metabolic panel beforehand I would be requesting. Diet can be changed and correct work can improve the topline.

He's got such a sweet face.


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## redbadger

It might surprise me if both horses (I can't speak for the mini) were both metabolic - the QH is also a chonk, as the young people say. They are in all in a very small pen eating and not working, so my gut (hah) sense is they're just both out of shape. To be honest, I just don't quite feel a spark with him. On the other hand, if the barn owner bought him, I'd be happy to have him around as a hack line horse. Fortunately, the lady selling him is not overly eager to sell him (or any of them), and has given me multiple assurances that should I want to come up again, bring a friend, take him out for a trail ride (in better weather), I am welcome to do so. 

(she also said it's hard to get him to run under saddle. well, then, what's the fun of a horse who can't get his beans up and book it at 20mph down the trail? jk jk I could do with someone a notch slower than Jasper, but honestly I'm used to his liveliness now.)

No, I think I'm still looking.


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## redbadger

Toby's gone. Not deceased: no, he's still fine that way. But, his dad moved him (and Louie, the gelding his wife owns) quite abruptly to some family property, much closer to where they live. I am perplexed and upset by his going, though I know he's safe and much loved. (also, I cried about something else on Sunday, which has used up my quota for the next couple months apparently). I am unclear if Jasper misses them in whatever way a horse misses other horses, in the sense he knows the situation has changed. He's been a little more pockety (that is, "in one's pocket") the last week or so, but that was before they left, too. 

He is full of beans, as per usual, possibly espresso beans at this rate. He's particularly bad about it once we turn to go home, and I'm on my toes (not literally) trying to find a balance of letting him trot/canter when we can, and come down to a normal pace when needed. I've been working hard at keeping my elbows relaxed and springy, and riding on my pockets. We did ok today, though had to go into the spin cycle once, and took an extra loop. But it was such a nice day, and it's been dry, so it was a good day for running too. We encountered the train twice, which is unusual (it's a short-line freight railroad, with a few regular clients and typically a morning and afternoon trip). He isn't fond of the train, but he doesn't spook at it, though there's one spot where the grade passes within 20 feet of the trail and I think he's considered it there. 

I'd like to take him up on the hill again, but there's no good way to get to the west side of the railroad tracks right now. The river is too deep and too cold, and the other option is to go up the gas line (pipeline corridor), which is steep on a good day. There are trails on the other side of the road from the barn, but I haven't been up there in a long time, and we haven't been up there by ourselves, either.


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## walkinthewalk

Horses do care and often react when herd members leave and it always changes the herd dynamics, sometimes the shuffle can llast awhile until thy figure out who now belongs where in the pecking order. 

Some horses seem to struggle with their friends leaving more than others and will act out, similar to a child who has just learned its parents are getting a divorce. 

You be careful riding near or on the train tracks. I was leary of them years ago when I was young. You want to really be aware of hobo encampments and lone transients trying to jump the train or hanging out in the woods. 

I have always worn a No-Fear T-shirt but I take a few steps back when it comes to riding in close proximity to working railroad tracks — even when I carried a gun. 

Use a saddle if you do go along the tracks, so you have better security to urge Jasper on, if you have to.


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## redbadger

The stretch of trackage we pass by is fairly open, crosses by multiple walking/hiking trails, and passes by a number of backyards. I've not seen any transient activity so far, but I'll still keep an eye out. (I do know people hop freights from the yards up in Worcester.) 

I always use a saddle on the trail. I am in no way adroit enough or brave enough to try hacking out alone bareback. :lol: plus, I'm not sure either of our bodies would appreciate it. 

The herd is certainly smaller now, and Lou and Tobes were sort of the bosses by the end of their tenure. I do suspect he perceives the change and that two herdmates are gone. No one pushing him out of the run-in.


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## redbadger

Jasper and I faced (and defeated!) a TERRIFYING MONSTER today. 

So to get to the regular trails, we have to walk through the neighboring properties, and the barn owner's brother was throwing out a (rather ghastly) orange sectional sofa. It is leaning, upright, on a telephone pole at the end of the drive, along with its bits and pieces and all the cushions. Jasper, a man not ordinarily taken to anxieties, saw it and said um, sorry, WHAT ON EARTH IS THAT. It took us about 15 minutes or so, circling closer and closer, until we could finally pass it by. 

I was somewhat concerned because, again, Jasper is not really prone to balking or fussing over any little thing. He's not like Steel, the horse my trainer rides as a lead, who needs to check absolutely everything, because he is, by god, going to make sure it is perfectly safe. (a few weeks ago, he got all bent out of shape because the co-op farm had sawed a dead tree into pieces, so now it smelled different and was shaped differently. But I digress). My trainer reminded me, though, that we did get past it - it just took some time, and it is a massive sectional sofa, which has never, ever been there before. And he was fine with it on the way back. 

(the snowfall was also very lovely and very deep, and we were the first ones to walk in it since the storm ended. score!)


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## walkinthewalk

Oh my, that was a great visual, lollol

I don't think there are too many horses who wouldn’t look twice —- or thrice at a fifty foot tall orange sofa leaning against a telephone pole. I’m not even sure my beloved Duke (RIP) would have passed it without giving it the sideways eyeball😂😂

Great job to both of you😀😀

In case I haven’t said this before—- your trainer sounds like one in a million😘


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## redbadger

walkinthewalk said:


> Oh my, that was a great visual, lollol
> 
> I don't think there are too many horses who wouldn’t look twice —- or thrice at a fifty foot tall orange sofa leaning against a telephone pole. I’m not even sure my beloved Duke (RIP) would have passed it without giving it the sideways eyeball😂😂
> 
> Great job to both of you😀😀
> 
> In case I haven’t said this before—- your trainer sounds like one in a million😘


(fifty is an exaggeration that Steel would make. It's on end, though, so tallwise). Against the snow, it's appears nearly the same color as Jasper! Which is a great color for a horse, but not such a great color for a sofa (imho. I mean whatever rings your chimes.) But he also can't see color the way I can, so imagine a lurking bluish-gray lumpy thing looks even scarier. It's not a garbage can, it's not a rock, it's not a car, it sure as heck isn't food, so what could it be? 

She's a great person. She challenges me to work harder and try new things, but she is very patient with my anxieties. (she knows that if Jasper hadn't decided it was time to canter, I would've taken longer to get to that point. It was probably better that Jasper decided for us.) I remember how proud she was of me when I was riding drag on a trail ride, and got off to help a lady who had lost her stirrup and couldn't get it back. I was so scared that I wouldn't be able to get back on him - that I'd lose the saddle or sprain something, or fall in front of all the customers - but it was easier for me to get to the young woman than have my trainer come all the way back down the line. But I did manage it, and no one was the wiser. I was so pleased with myself and that I made her proud. And happy that she was willing to let me try.


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## redbadger

I asked my trainer if she would take some pictures of us bareback. I swear I am enjoying this, even if I look terribly serious. Mostly, I want to show off how beautiful Jasper is. Isn't he the most resplendent?


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## ACinATX

You guys look amazing together.


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## walkinthewalk

Yes — Jasper — is — the Most — Resplendent 😘. I can’t say the same for all that snow, lol

Jasper is happy, he loves what he is doing with you, and you sit him wonderfully.

You honestly make a great pair— darn it, you need a Bill of Sale that says Jasper Is yours


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## redbadger

The snow has its downsides, but properly bundled (as seen here), it's very beautiful - especially when you're the first ones to go tromping through it. When we were out on the trail (not bareback), the wind would lift the snow off the trees and in the sun it was just dazzling - like walking through glitter. And, NO SOFAS TODAY, no furniture monsters of any kind. So that's nice. I think we had a bit of a breakthrough with the Hideous Sofa Monster, because it was such an easy, quiet ride today, no pausing, no fussing, just utterly relaxed. 

(but doesn't he look good against the snow?)

I feel a lot better on him bareback than when I started! It was a trial to get these photos, though, because man does not like standing still when we're out. We're out, he says, why are we just STANDING here, where there is NO FOOD, let's GO.


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## egrogan

walkinthewalk said:


> You honestly make a great pair— darn it, you need a Bill of Sale that says Jasper Is yours


THIS!! Great pictures


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## redbadger

Funny story: in ... normal ... times, there's a big local St Patrick's day parade that the barn has always participated in (because parades are fun and it's good advertising). I've wanted to ride in it, but last year, pandemic happened, and this year it's cancelled again because, pandemic. Sigh. 

Anyway, before knowing it was cancelled, I asked my trainer hey, is there even a slim chance, if there's a parade, I could ride Jasper? And she said well, there are a couple of other people who might want to ride him, but physically, I think you could do it. Anyway, yesterday, having come back in from our adventures, she mentioned that this otherwise nice woman who also loves Jasper (everyone loves Jasper) had said that _she_ wanted to ride him in the parade, and my trainer had said well, he has two leasers... and the third woman said we should both lose out and _she_ should ride him. :lol: I did think that was a little mean to say. (I mean, I think of anyone besides customers, I ride him the most. But I'm not going to be a jerk about it, because I love him and want him to be whatever a horse feels as happiness.) 

Right now, the barn owner is laid up with a kidney infection/stones, and is righteously cranky at just about everybody. So probably not a good time to ask, unless the doctors decide to up his painkiller regimen. 15 minutes after a dose of dilaudid, most people will agree to just about anything. (but, that would be dishonest and mean.)


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## lb27312

@redbadger - You look awesome bareback! Great pics, you look very comfortable to have started doing bareback a little nervous. Jasper looks splendid! Thanks for sharing the pictures!


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## redbadger

lb27312 said:


> @redbadger - You look awesome bareback! Great pics, you look very comfortable to have started doing bareback a little nervous. Jasper looks splendid! Thanks for sharing the pictures!


I still do feel nervous, but much more secure than the first few times. (as you can see, I'm not grabbing his mane for dear life ) We still just go around the yard, nothing too wild. 

He's a beautiful horse. Makes everyone look good.


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## redbadger

The last few rides have been so - serene, almost - that I have to give greater credence to the breakthrough theory. I asked my trainer, and she said it was a bonding moment for us - we faced the Hideous Sofa, we survived, and are the better for it. We can protect each other from the scariest of things. Today, in particular, was such a smooth, easy ride. If this is the new normal, I'm down - he's not lost any of his strength or energy, he's just been, somehow, easier. It is hard to describe. I look forward to keeping this going.


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## walkinthewalk

redbadger said:


> The last few rides have been so - serene, almost - that I have to give greater credence to the breakthrough theory. I asked my trainer, and she said it was a bonding moment for us - we faced the Hideous Sofa, we survived, and are the better for it. We can protect each other from the scariest of things. Today, in particular, was such a smooth, easy ride. If this is the new normal, I'm down - he's not lost any of his strength or energy, he's just been, somehow, easier. It is hard to describe. I look forward to keeping this going.


There some of us on here that truly get what you are describing

I think you have reached the true and honest point of camaraderie. Jasper trusts you will take care of him in certain situations, and you trust he will take care of you in certain situations. That doesn’t mean there won’t be spooks but by and large, the trust sounds to be a solid two-way street.

It is a joyous moment in a good horse/human relationship when you say to your horse “ you have GOT to trust me on this one” and likewise you say to the horse “I trust YOUR judgement on this one.

That “marriage” doesn’t always happen and the big mistake many people make is trying to force it to happen (the bonding moment, which I am not too fond of that much over used term

Jasper’s owner simply needs to accept your cash offer to make Jasper legally yours and be done with it. He’s being greedy and playing ALL ends against the middle because Jasper is such a great guy.


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## QtrBel

Great photos! Love looking at snow from a safe distance of many multiple states away..... I'd say that top ond is frame worthy.


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## redbadger

walkinthewalk said:


> There some of us on here that truly get what you are describing
> 
> I think you have reached the true and honest point of camaraderie. Jasper trusts you will take care of him in certain situations, and you trust he will take care of you in certain situations. That doesn’t mean there won’t be spooks but by and large, the trust sounds to be a solid two-way street.
> 
> It is a joyous moment in a good horse/human relationship when you say to your horse “ you have GOT to trust me on this one” and likewise you say to the horse “I trust YOUR judgement on this one.
> 
> That “marriage” doesn’t always happen and the big mistake many people make is trying to force it to happen (the bonding moment, which I am not too fond of that much over used term


Reading the way you put it, I realize it's a partnership - not totally unlike what I have with my regular partner on the ambulance. He and I have had some seriously critical, seriously messy calls together - and now, on an emergency, we already often anticipate what the other one wants, already setting up before the other one asks. While I can't work with Jasper as a human - being he is a horse and all - we can be a pair. We hope not to encounter any monsters, but if we did, we could handle it. I feel like I keep talking about it (and probably that people are a little tired of it) but it's such a heady feeling - we're going to be okay together. 

And yes, he was a bit fussed about going out Monday - in his "but I want to be lazy and eat hay in the sunshine" way - but then we were relaxed. I didn't get to ride today, because the recent weather has made the trails too icy, but hopefully things will improve by next week.

(in fairness: I haven't actually asked the barn owner if he'd sell Jasper to me. But he is also still cooped up in his house on antibiotics and apparently not nearly enough painkillers, being a grouch to absolutely everyone via the phone.)


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## walkinthewalk

Yes, a great analogy as being similar to your partnership with your EMT partner

I honestly hope the BO gets to feeling better sooner than later — BUT — Somebody drug that Barn owner up and put a pen in his hand😂😂

P.S. I can see why everyone loves Jasper. He exudes personality thru his pictures. He is one of those “It” horses


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## redbadger

My trainer has suggested that if I could find an affordable horse who can carry like Jasper, and w/t/c, for a reasonable price, but who I didnt "click" with, I could theoretically purchase said horse and theoretically trade for Jasper. So the BO gets his big strong horse for heftier customers (most of our horses are fairly light-bodied) and I get my pal. Of course, the issue is finding a big horse that _can_ w/t/c - if he or she only had to w/t, we'd be golden.


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## walkinthewalk

Well now — that certainly beats a big fat “no” 👏👏

You do seem to have a knack for picking out some beautiful and solid built horses. If you can find the w/t/c criteria, as you say, you and Jasper would be golden


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## redbadger

walkinthewalk said:


> Well now — that certainly beats a big fat “no” 👏👏
> 
> You do seem to have a knack for picking out some beautiful and solid built horses. If you can find the w/t/c criteria, as you say, you and Jasper would be golden


The C is the trouble! Lots of big strong horses, not so many who want to C. But as has been discussed on the draft horse/trail horse thread, full drafts are not necessarily built for running. 

SO. I had a lovely ride today, in the mist. But afterward, we were sitting and talking, with this girl who owns two horses (this is key - one of them used to be a trail horse, but she bought him because she liked him and wanted a horse that was rideable, as her other gelding is barely halter broke) and the BO came in and etc. And the girl mentioned to the BO that if he ever wanted to sell Jasper, this other woman (who had previously bought one of his trail horses) had expressed interest. Now, aside from being PROFOUNDLY INSULTED by her bringing this up in front of me, and I did interject immediately - so did the BO, who pointed out that I ride him most of anyone and spend a ton of time with him and should therefore get first dibs. I suggested that if I could find a suitable replacement, we could trade, or I could give him money for Jasper so _he_ could purchase a replacement, etc. So: he is aware of how much time I spend with Jasper, and it seems he's amenable to selling or trading Jasper as long as there's a replacement horse. 

Anybody know a horse in the New England/Mid-Atlantic between 15.3 and 17hh, of stout build, who could carry someone 6ft+ and/or over 225lbs, for less than $5k? :|

Sometimes I was thinking: do I really have more of a claim to Jasper than anyone else? But you know what: I do, hang it. I ride him more than anyone else. We go out alone and we are safe. We run together (when the footing is good). Sometimes he jumps (sometimes when I would rather he not). We defeated the sofa!


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## PiebaldPunk

Hey! Just read through this thread and I have to say you and Jasper make a great pair! It's wonderful when you find a horse that you truly connect with. 
I wish you luck finding a suitable horse to trade for Jasper, as he definitely seems as though you have a great time together.


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## egrogan

redbadger said:


> Anybody know a horse in the New England/Mid-Atlantic between 15.3 and 17hh, of stout build, who could carry someone 6ft+ and/or over 225lbs, for less than $5k?


Well, you just gave me a reason to start horse shopping! 😉

In all seriousness, what would it look like for you to start shopping for his replacement? Would you test ride? Would BO or other people from the barn have to test ride? How far in New England would you be willing to travel?

My first thought is that you should get in touch with the folks at Pond Hill Ranch in VT. They have a great reputation, get the kind of horse your BO would need, and are open to understanding your “wish list” and following up if/when they get something in that meets your criteria. The $5k might not get you all the way there, but it’s possible. Horses for Sale Vermont, Horses for Sale Northeast, Horses for Sale New England, Ponies to Purchase in Vermont, Horses for Sale VT, NH, CT, RI, MA, NY, ME, NJ, PA, OH

I really will start paying attention and asking around though!


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## walkinthewalk

@redbadger ok —— my lifelong friend up in western PA was horse shopping with her adult niece who wants to get back into horses now that her children are older.

Along with the foto of the beautiful Leopard App her niece bought, my friend also sent a foto of her niece standing beside the most absolutely drop dead gorgeous young Percheron I have ever seen. 

*the Percheron is 19 hands!*

I am having a hard time believing the horse is 100% Percheron because he looks too slender.

I don’t even know if the horse is for sale and I can’t post the foto.

Although all of us are prone to travel to look at a horse, I am thinking this horse is somewhere on the west side of PA.

If you think a young 19H inky blue-black Percheron or Percheron/cross might have potential, I can text my friend and ask if the horse is for sale. It could be the owner only got the horse out so my friend’s niece could have her picture with such a striking 19H beauty


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## redbadger

19hh might be a bit too much for most customers! :O

I have been horse shopping a bit, but more with an eye for what I want personally. With a slightly wider criteria and no need to have a personal connection, it may be easier. I am willing to go just about anywhere in New England, a good bit of New York, and south as far as Frederick, MD and DC. I have family in Maryland, so it's also a good excuse to see them.  

I think I've had a good eye for conformation so far, and consider myself pretty patient and a good judge of human sellers. I think the BO would trust me to test ride a horse and be thoughtful about its long-term suitability. He's bought horses sight unseen before, but his regular dealer passed away a couple of years ago. 

I could pay more than $5k, I'm just trying to hedge a bit. 

The horse I looked at in New Hampshire was actually one I thought the BO would like. Good-natured, sturdy, on the tall end. His two big problems were how long it took to bridle him, and that he needs some polishing. He was overall willing, but he'd need a proper 30 day refresher, and I'd need to look into whether the bridle was comfort, lack of practice (he'd been out of work 5 months), or teeth issues. Not sure how a 30 day trainer would run. Couple thousand? Thus, preferably a ready horse.


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## PiebaldPunk

I might be wildly offbase because I know next to nothing about the geography of the USA, but is this guy anywhere in your travelling distance? He's not as stocky as a draft horse but he's tall and the ad states he's honest and good for a lesson program. 
Please correct me if I'm wrong lol.
Big Bodied Pleasure Horse - Quarter Horse for Sale in Yardley, PA (horseweb.com) 

You tempted me into browsing horse ads while I was having a cuppa rofl.


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## redbadger

PiebaldPunk said:


> I might be wildly offbase because I know next to nothing about the geography of the USA, but is this guy anywhere in your travelling distance? He's not as stocky as a draft horse but he's tall and the ad states he's honest and good for a lesson program.
> Please correct me if I'm wrong lol.
> Big Bodied Pleasure Horse - Quarter Horse for Sale in Yardley, PA (horseweb.com)
> 
> You tempted me into browsing horse ads while I was having a cuppa rofl.


No, that's definitely within my search range. I appreciate the looking!


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## QtrBel

In my experience with drafts and lesson barns the taller the horse the more apprehensive the large, adult bigger is. The kids love it. 

Height doesn't make a horse appropriate to carry weight. Actually combined with a long lean build makes it less likely to be able to carry substantial weight. You want short back, strong loin, dense bone. Suffolk Punch and punch crosses, shorter stockier builds - there are some stout QH lines that can carry a pretty hefty load.


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## redbadger

I definitely have a range to work with - taller than Jasper would be too tall. A horse similar to Toby (my old pal) or a heftier Louie, up to one similar to Jasper. Since I'm looking for a horse for a job versus a horse for me, that gives me a bit more leeway. I am sure it is possible. I may have to go a bit further afield, which is harder with COVID, but hopefully that gets better soon.


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## redbadger

Well, in an unexpected turn of events, the gal who also leases Jasper is moving south in June. The effect this has on whether or not he could be mine is still pretty neutral, because there's still no replacement (successor?) for the hack line. And with the season turning, it'll be harder to keep him to myself. I think my trainer, a trail guide, tries hard to keep him for me when she can, which I appreciate. 

The search is a bit frustrating - a lot of too much of this and not enough of that, too young, too tall, too short, too slim, not trained enough, not sound enough. Holy Moses, there are a lot of thoroughbreds for sale. The BO said one of his contacts was getting a batch of new horses in the spring, though the horses he's gotten from that guy have been ... uh ... well, let's say not exactly trail ready. (I suppose there is a reason when trail riding places get rid of certain horses at the end of a season).

That said, as the weather gets nicer, I'm feeling up to a few things. For one, with my trainer around in case I get myself in trouble, try riding out on the trail bareback. Two, I really wish we could go off-property for something special. I want to give him an adventure, we've been riding on the same loop for MONTHS, and it got even shorter last week due to a MASSIVE downed tree. Eventually, the creek will go down and warm up, and we'll be able to get up on the hill, but it'd be nice to try something new together. I don't think it could ever happen, but the local trail riding association hosts a very casual hunter pace in the fall and since he does love popping over things (small things please Jasper SMALL THINGS) I really would like to enter the Weenie Division and see how we stack up.


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## ACinATX

@walkinthewalk Do you think the horse is really 19hh? Isn't that almost unheard of? 

Of course, I have all shorties, but I'd be worried that such a large horse would be prone to health issues and a shorter lifespan. Just doesn't seem natural for a horse to be that big.


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## gottatrot

ACinATX said:


> @walkinthewalk Do you think the horse is really 19hh? Isn't that almost unheard of?


I've seen some Belgians that big at our state fair. Apparently Belgians in particular can be that tall. They groomed them on step ladders.


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## walkinthewalk

@redbadger, well this a turn of events - I hope it works out to your advantage

i can only imagine how tough it has to be to find a Jasper replacement - once in a lifetime horses aren‘t easily found

Once the creek goes down and the tree gets cut up, you’ve got all summer to hone your bareback skills and also the hunter pace Weenie Division, which sounds like a LOT of fun



ACinATX said:


> @walkinthewalk Do you think the horse is really 19hh? Isn't that almost unheard of?


Yes, I do. I have the foto but I can’t publish it. My friend’s niece is 5’7”. She is standing beside the horse looking up at him —- about to put her neck out of joint.

That whole family was raised with horses. I know my friend well enough to know that she would have swore and said “how tall is that horse!?” and the owner likely replied 19H.

If the horse isn’t 19H, it has to be darn close because I’ve never seen a horse that tall either. My friends niece is holding the horse inside a barn, on level ground, so there was no camera skewing.

The horse is allegedly pure Percheron. I don’t even know if the horse is for sale, or the owners were gracious enough to bring it out for my friend’s niece to get a picture with

*Ok, I just went back and examined the foto of this horse.*

There is a shedrow type setup inside a huge barn; hay is probably stored on top of those stalls, like is done in training barns. “Stalls” being the operative because they have to be high enough for the average sized horse.

This horse’s ears are higher than the top of these stalls


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## redbadger

Hand-height is useful when searching, because it gives a rough idea of what I want, but ultimately I'm not out there with a measuring stick marking down inches. I mean, someone could tell me "this is a 17hh horse", but it turns out they're only about Jasper-sized, or a horse is Jasper-height but lighter bodied (like some of the thoroughbreds).

Whoever bred Jasper did an incredible job with conformation, imho. Whether it was accidental or intentional I don't know. Perhaps the only aesthetic knock against him as a show horse would be his delightfully Roman schnoz. Would that I could find whoever raised him and see if they have a clone. :lol: But I believe he came from an auction, so who really knows? 

Some of the horses I see have lovely strong bodies with good necks and shoulders, but then those teeny toothpick legs.  

@walkinthewalk That is a _lot_ of horse! :O Also really, as long as the obstacles are not massive, and there are go-arounds (which there are - not that Jasper believes in Going Around The Thing) I think we'd be alright. I would need permission, but it's on a Sunday, so that's not so likely (Sundays are very busy). 

Every time the clock hits 11:11 I make a wish for Jasper.


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## egrogan

I’ve been keeping my eye out on FB, but not seeing anything big enough. But it’s been fun looking!


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## redbadger

At last! The snow has almost all melted away (of course we're getting a bit tonight, naturally) and the ground is spongy, yet firm. Jasper was excited to go out. 

We saw a turkey vulture on the trail! Which was pretty great until it moved and scared Jas. (it was still pretty cool to see it so close). 

But the big deadfall is cleared and the footing is good, so we got to run. Jasper thought that was GREAT FUN, but he does have a case of the Springtimes: full of beans, that one. Slowing him down is the harder part. We had to go in the spin cycle several times, to have a discussion about how we cannot just trot (minimum) the entire trail. (this actually is something that scares me a bit about entering a hunter pace: I can't say he wouldn't go, "OH MY GOSH A COURSE? FOR ME?" and take the whole thing at a canter, which is ... not the objective). We did an extra loop of Walking Only. I don't feel too discouraged: I think he's just excited to get moving, and we'll get through it. (I feel a little discouraged, because we were doing so well... sigh. It's all a process, isn't it?) 

I did try popping over a couple of the fallen branches that are basically embedded in the dirt (effectively, a fat ground pole), trying to practice timing and deliberately cueing him. It went ... passably. Not beautifully, but passably. 

Though it's due to snow (a little) tonight, the weather will be clear through the weekend and next week, with mild temps. Eventually, the novelty will wear off (maybe) and he'll settle in.

It still does confound me that somehow, for some reason, he'll refuse to canter for so many people and yet, under me, he'll do anything EXCEPT walk. I appreciate the faith and comfort, but would like a little bit of balance.


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## walkinthewalk

‘‘Tis The Season for spring fever” Everyone and everything has it to some degree

I think you handled Jasper’s spring fever marvelously

In terms of trail riding, I have never expected absolute perfection, except when lack of it could mean a hospital bed or death <—— walking a trail on a cliff ledge where there was no room to get off the horse, for example.

Jasper pretty much did what you asked, with what I call respectful hesitation (“aw mom do I HAVE to?”). Don’t be hard on yourself or Jasper, you both did great


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## redbadger

It's true - I can't say I haven't been excited to do things like wear a vest at work (instead of a job shirt) and run with Jasper on the trail. I'm also happy that it makes him happy (he wouldn't do it if he didn't want to). I've said before, I think, that I wish so badly I could give him a field or a beach or some straightaway flat trail where he could really fly, where he tires himself out long before I have to pull him up.


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## redbadger

Sometimes I feel like I'm never going to find a replacement for Jasper. (That is, a replacement for the BO, so I can have Jasper all to myself). That said, the BO did get two new horses, at least one of whom is an utter peach (needs to put some weight on, tho), solidly built, about 15.1(ish), lovely personality. I can't speak for the other one yet. So at least there's more horses in rotation and Jasper isn't quite so desperately needed. 

We had a stretch of lovely weather. Rain melted off the last of the nasty frozen snow, and the ground was loamy without being greasy. On Monday, we actually rode three times: once by ourselves, and twice as a drag rider. The second customers were great: two absolute beginners, but very chill and balanced. The first customers were ... well, one young lady had booked in for a w/t/c, and she would've been fine, but the other two _said_ they could w/t/c and ... couldn't. I think they were a couple, but the one woman was terribly overbearing to her partner (?) (who had never ridden, and was incredibly nervous, like petrified) and also had 0 concept of how uncomfortable she was. My instructor had to pony the nervous woman part of the way, we trotted twice, and then just walked the rest of the way. I felt bad for the young lady on Baby who had booked the ride in the first place (tho she loved Baby and wanted to come back and ride her again), but I felt bad for the woman on Romeo (one of the new horses) who was so scared. 

Jasper was great: we're trying a new bit with him - still an eggbutt snaffle, but with thicker bars (?). The hope is that if he can go nicely in it, customers can use it and it won't be so hard on his mouth if they panic, are inexperienced, or just terrible. But he was polite and containable. We tried it by ourselves on Thursday, did a walk/trot to see how he did. He was difficult to slow from a trot back to a walk, but he is even with the other bit, and it could also just be me. He didn't break into a canter or anything, so we know he won't outright run through it. More testing is needed, though. (not a problem). 

He gets his feet done tomorrow (hooray!). The week is due to be a little grey in patches, but mild. No great heavy rain. Maybe some small saplings or branches down that we can hop over. (eventually, the ring will be more solid, and we can practicing timing in there). We've been taking a couple downed logs (which are perhaps 8" in diameter and stuck in the earth) in a regular space and we are often awkward, but mildly successful (actually Thursday was our very best: a legitimate, deliberate jump over the smaller log). No more two-foot deadfalls though, please. But on the off-chance (the infinitesimally slim chance) we could go to the Hunter Pace in the fall, I'd like us to have a good time and be able to go over a jump or three.


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## egrogan

@redbadger, I keep looking for you and am sending you a PM because of the ban on posting links to FB on this site, and that's the only place I see horses posted.


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## walkinthewalk

@redbadger , you write very well and with good humor

Me thinks you might enjoy the musings of a former large animal vet turned write/comedian by the name of Baxter Black.

I love this guy.




__





Baxter Black


The official site for Baxter Black– cowboy poet, master humorist, and so much more. Buy books, cards, CDs, DVDs and more! Find him on TV, Radio, and in print.



baxter-black.merchmadeeasy.com





He also has a few YouTube videos






P.S. maybe @egrogan has found THE horse to keep Jasper off the string


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## redbadger

@walkinthewalk Thank you! I've led a comparatively bonkers life (even before becoming an EMT/paramedic), so I've learned to have a sense of humor. Life is too short, and sometimes too horrible, not to laugh when you can. (it's also too short to leave a good story untold.)


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## egrogan

Hey @redbadger - check out “Sampson” here: Available Equines


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## walkinthewalk

egrogan said:


> Hey @redbadger - check out “Sampson” here: Available Equines


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## QtrBel

Nice looking horse. Certainly worth a look.


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## redbadger

We had a bad day.  When I got there, I thought we didn't have enough time to go out for real because there was a ride at noon, so I rode around the yard bareback. He was - not great, although sometimes he is fussy about bareback because we don't do it very often. (for my part, I felt like I have been wobblier recently, so some time bareback would be good for me). Turns out that ride cancelled due to rain (it wasn't really raining - just sprinkles off and on), so I was like alright well, we'll take up and go for a little ride. 

That did not go well _at all_. He was a real pill - he'd get up to the BO's yard, stop, turn sharply around. Kept trying to turn around - couldn't even get him past the back paddock. Really tossing his head. My trainer had to come and help me out and he was still a jerk even with her right next to him and holding his reins. He has never, ever behaved this badly for me, not even in the ring (which he thinks is a Great and Terrible Crime). The closest he's come to being like this was when we faced the sofa, and we still got past that with time and coaxing. However: I'm not mad at him. I know if he's being this bad, something is wrong. It might be something evil is in the woods (possible: sometimes he's fussed when he smells or hears something that I don't), or he's in some kind of pain (also possible: he doesn't feel acutely lame or sore, even on palpation, but we've had big temp swings so his joints could be bothering him), or maybe the barn worker who feeds him breakfast has started giving him fuel, or some combo of the above. He's been spicy with fuel before, but he's not a refuser by nature - he likes going out, very little actually scares him, and we've worked very hard together and I think we know each other pretty well. 

With my trainer, we walked a few times around the perimeter of the yard, then went back in. I checked him over for bumps and bruises, put some liniment on, and gave him some bute. Nothing seemed to be bothering him more than normal, but I know for me when weather shifts my joints can get bad or my old healed breaks can hurt without necessarily being tender to touch. Hopefully, we are both just having an off day. But he is never a jerk or a refuser without some sort of understandable reason, so I don't think he's just being bad or naughty. (if it's just the barn woman feeding him a large scoop entirely of fuel for breakfast, uh, maybe we could just cut back on that a tad.) I worry that something is hurting him, though. 

On the positive side, he was walking right fast and jogged a bit and did some sharp turns while I was bareback and I stayed on. _shrug_ Better luck next time?


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## walkinthewalk

I agree this is not Jasper’s M.O.

It could be any one of things you mention.

My first thought is teeth and/or gums.

if Jasper wears a bit, check his teeth and gums, even if they were looked at recently


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## redbadger

walkinthewalk said:


> I agree this is not Jasper’s M.O.
> 
> It could be any one of things you mention.
> 
> My first thought is teeth and/or gums.
> 
> if Jasper wears a bit, check his teeth and gums, even if they were looked at recently


He is never super happy about having his mouth messed with (I don't think many horses are), but he wasn't worse about it than he usually is. I believe he is due for teeth floating, but he is eating lustily and in the usual way (i.e. not tossing his head or slopping grain around). I've been riding him in a thicker snaffle than his public one on advice of my trainer (for about ... a month?), that it might not bang around in his mouth so much. 

It's what's confusing - he didn't seem bothered anywhere I poked and prodded him, even his grumpy leg. He had a particularly nasty insect bite just under his left armpit that I put ichthammol on. I stretched his neck and rubbed him down. He can be stoic - he'll power through a lot right up until he's really off - but he does let you know if you poke a bad spot. I know he's trying to tell me something's wrong, I just don't know what, so I will just keep my brain open in the meantime. 

The irony of all of this of course is that two of the boarders were just remarking on how happy and comfortable and relaxed he is with me, more than anyone else. (one of them has rough board up near where we come back from the trail, so we see her often on our way home).


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## walkinthewalk

I still would not discount gum or tooth issues. There could be an issue clear in the back where you can’t see or feel without use of a speculum 

When Joker had the plaque caps popped off his teeth, his gums were red around both teeth. He never turned his head sideways to eat, never dropped a drop of his feed pan stuff.

These are the caps the vet popped off Joker’s teeth - without anesthetic I might add 

I check mouths periodically. When I spaw red gums just about ready to bleed around the teeth, I called the vet.

You are so right that horses, being flight animals, hide pain very well. Joker only displYed the usual annoyance at me poking around his mouth when I pressed on his red gums.

And yes, these ARE plaque caps that popped off two of his teeth pretty much whole - yuck.


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## QtrBel

If the fuel you are referring to is Proforce Fuel - it is a controlled starch (20% or lower nsc), high fat (13%) feed. It isn't a feed that winds a horse up. The fuel refers to the high fat as it is not a low calorie feed, and it is meant to provide a "cool" energy source for horses under a harder work load that are on pasture or fed adequate hay as it is not a replacement for fiber (10%). I will say in my experience with it the smaller and greater number the feedings the better it performs. My experience is they do best on 2 to 3 pounds at a time and no more. With that gains are quickly seen. It is not a feed for those with wheat, soy or corn intolerance. Comes in at 1600 calories per pound.


Sometimes they just have an off day. Whether it is you, something in their head, the surroundings, weather can be a big one... It doesn't sound like he was just allowed to go back to his comfy space. I would think not likely to happen again.


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## redbadger

@walkinthewalk those are revolting, I love them. And no: I am for sure no vet, so it absolutely could be teeth or gums. The BO sets up all of that for horses he owns, and I believe Jasper is due, but I'm not sure when that will happen. I thought he had been checked with his vaccinations not long ago, but I could be mistaken on that. I'll ask my trainer. He has been, I think, fussier and more impatient lately (pawing in the stall or when he's on ties), which I chalked up to spring and maybe being a bit bored (due to winter, haven't had much variety in the trails). 

@QtrBel To be honest, I'm not sure it's fuel he's getting. I know the barn's vet recommended it to put and keep weight on some of the horses. But, G., the barn-hand, feeds Jasper breakfast and it might be some mix that she's come up with. I went out today, but didn't see her, so I couldn't ask. (I didn't ride today, because it was gross out - all heavy wet snow and gray). They do all get plenty of hay, but their feeding is ... a little erratic, because G. is not a morning person, and sometimes no one gets hay until 10:30 or 11 or close to noon, and then they get night hay around 6pm or so. (it's [x] square bales per field, dependent on number of horses, scattered around so everyone gets a pile.)

We'll see if he tries to pull nonsense over the weekend when he's working. Hopefully he just had a bad day (a REALLY bad day) and things will settle.


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## redbadger

Surprise! It was a one-off bad day, thank goodness. We went out Monday morning and he was a bit strong-headed - the usual "are you _sure_ we have to go this way?" stuff he pulls occasionally. Came in line nicely, and he's doing fine with the bit - overall being a good listener. It was a beautiful day, too. Calm and bright and not too hot. 

I stayed into the afternoon. My trainer had to guide a four-horse ride, which would've meant she would've had to use him (I was gamely hoping someone would be a no-show...). But, the way it turned out was: there was a 13yo and his mom, a 17 year old girl, and a - maybe 10-12 year old boy. The last one had been booked by his mom, under her name, so no one had any idea it was a child. It also turned out he was autistic. The older girl had some sort of developmental delay, too, but more to the point she was scared to death on a horse. So, my trainer pulled Robin - a sweet, senior quarter horse she uses for lessons who is perfect for kids but not ordinarily a line horse because she's mostly-retired - and had me ride drag. She ponied the younger boy, had the older girl behind them, and then the older boy and his mom. I kept an eye on the younger boy and the girl (the boy was content to sit on the horse, follow direction, and tell Robin how wonderful she was. He was not, however, really strong enough to control her). So I had to catch up to them on Jasper, who usually finds them by the co-op farm's orchard (about five Jasper-minutes from the barn). 

So I come up on the driveway to the orchard and hear a lot of shouting. Turns out, the older boy fell off his horse - we think he spooked at some critter in the brush, and stumbled, and the kid tipped. I didn't see it and neither did my trainer, but that's what the mom said. He was not severely injured, thank goodness: likely he has a concussion from flopping off a horse (helmet yes, but the brain bounces about in the skull), but nothing was broken and he was able to get up and move around ok. We offered to have a car come around for them. The neighbors helped us walk their horses and them back to the barn, and I tell you: Jasper was an absolute saint. I'd had to dismount to check on the kid and get direction, then mount up from a tree stump, walk back to the barn, put away Baby and Romeo, advise mom & kid and give them the BO's number (I have no refund authority) then mount back up and go find my trainer and the two other kids. We met them back at the far end of the orchard and followed back. Let Jasper eat in the yard to help the girl dismount and get Lala in, bless him he just shoved his face in the grass. As much as I know he LOVE LOVE LOVES to eat grass (delicious spring grass no less), he also stayed put, _and_ didn't put up a fuss when I had to dismount, remount, dismount, remount and go back and forth to the orchard in a short amount of time. I like to think he knew I needed his help. I was so pleased with him. 

(and yes, there has been a talk about clarifying with people _who_ is actually riding, how old they are, and if they have any sort of issue that may affect their ability to control the horse or follow direction. and my trainer told the BO she's only taking out kids if it's a private ride, versus a public one. and yes, the neighbors are wonderful people.)


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## redbadger

Round we go: he felt a touch off at the first trot today, which I thought was maybe his saddle loosening. He has a tendency, particularly when he is feeling energetic first thing in the morning, to walk his way out of it even when I tighten it up well. But it wasn't, when I checked. And aside from disagreeing about which way we should go (and man, the water needs to warm up enough for me to feel comfortable crossing it so we can have a change of scene, or we need to coordinate with my instructor to go up the hill across the street) he was full of beans. But when we got back and I checked him, he was very unhappy having his right front picked up - like, pulling it away, stomping. He's sometimes like that with his back right, which has (as long as I've known him) been the "bad" leg (and his back legs are much better lately with regular applications of liniment). That was the side he felt off on, but we couldn't find any hot spots or anything swollen or visibly off. No rocks, no loose shoe. My trainer had me put some thrust-buster on it and says she'll keep an eye on it to see how he is. He is generally pretty stoic, as I've said, until he really hurts. 

Sometimes I feel like one of those finicky horse owners (though I don't own him) who wants things just right and seems to forget their horse is still a horse - I feel like I'm always asking "is this ok? can we do this? is it safe? will he be alright?" But I just want him to be comfortable doing things that make him happy (like going out on trail and running and jumping).


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## walkinthewalk

1. If he has it, his arthritis could be worsening, or he could be developing it. Is he on anything for arthritis?

2. Have you been there to watch his shoes get nailed, recently? If so did he jerk back or flinch when the nails went into his hoof(s)?

3. I’m thinking Jasper hurts somewhere and this is his only way of saying something. He may need some x-rays


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## redbadger

He almost certainly has arthritis in his right hind, based on his age and behavior about it. He's seldom really grouchy about it, but more "hey, no so fast there, pal" if you try and lift it. But my trainer and I have been putting liniment on at the end of his work days and he's been quite a bit better. The right fore is different and worse. Something is absolutely bothering him, but the right fore seems to be an acute problem versus a chronic problem, as he's never been particularly fussed about his front feet. He was in no way reluctant to speed up during the rest of the ride (yes, we have an ongoing discussion about being a good listener and not going on autopilot and not thinking that Trot is the ideal pace for all trailwork). 

He is not on anything for arthritis, and I don't believe he has ever - in his time here - had x-rays of any sort. Some of this I don't have as much say in as I would like, because he is legally the BO's horse and there's always that fine line of suggesting something without seeming insulting. 

My trainer was there when he had his shoes done and reported nothing unusual, and neither did the farrier. He wasn't tender when I rode him that day, either. That was late March. His right feet, however, were particularly ... uh ... stinky, when I cleaned them on Thursday. Not a major punch in the face kind of rank, but definitively funky versus the usual combo of post-ride dirt. 

Another possibility is that he popped a splint, something that happened last year. I thought he might have a new bit of calcification (he has several old ones) but wasn't sure. Those got better with rest and care. Hopefully it is something non-complicated that just requires a bit of TLC.


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## walkinthewalk

1. When horses hurt HERE, they will compensate for it somewhere else. Since the front end of a horse bear the brunt of the action anyway, it’s possible he now has issues on his front end from quietly compensating for so long.

2. The hoof odor is thrush — If you an buy your own Thrush Buster at TSC, sneakily pick and brush his soles/frogs really good and pour the Thrush Buster down in the collateral grooves alongside the frog, over the frog,mand in the central sulci between the heel bulbs if it’s cracked open.

3. I might ask the trainer to approach the BO about Jasper’s behavior as you both suspect it is pain related - hopefully he will care enough to get a vet out — or sell Jasper to you because he doesn’t want to spend the money

4. At Jasper’s age and given his overall great nature, I see his behavior issues as pain related and hopefully his owner will get a vet involved


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## redbadger

Thrushbuster we have readily available (free for barn use), and I cleaned it up and put some on yesterday. His right front ergot was also ... Mushy? Not peely-soft but mushy soft. And put icthymmol on that. 

Usually I do use the trainer as the go-between. If the BO would go ahead and sell the unrideable horses he owns ... (Austin is sound but trained as a bucking horse and does it well, Danby is sweet but a ball of anxiety and needs one focused, experienced person, and Latigo needs pretty much the same)... Maybe he could buy sound and trail-ready horses so Jasper didn't have to be used so much...(I wish). I'm going to check with my trainer today and I'm going to see Jasper again Thursday.


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## redbadger

The old man is doing well. I swear we just mirror aches and pains some days. 

Rode in the morning yesterday, beautiful spring morning. The sun came out unexpectedly, the air warmed up considerably, calm wind, and the apple trees down in the orchard have blossomed. We walked, trotted and cantered. Went over the two logs that are our "jumps". Then he got so happy on one canter he jumped over a stick about an inch or so in diameter. 

Late in the day, the 4pm trail ride cancelled, and my trainer and I went out by ourselves. Got to show her our jumps, which she said were not bad, but reminded me to keep my eyes forward and not look down. I was very nervous to show someone else! We had some cantering, too, and my trainer and her horse were happy to get out too. I was also happy to go out with just her and show off a little and have a fun ride. Jasper and I like going out alone, but it was nice to have a friend for once too. 

(I cut a bridle path for him last week, and when I asked for a rubber band - to keep his hair together - she followed it with "Do you want an envelope, too?" She is a kind and understanding person.)

Also, I had been toying with the notion of dropping the stirrups another hole (I often ride without them), and happened to do so that second right just by accident. I had somehow forgotten entirely about the midday ride that went out that used Jasper, so I didn't check my stirrups. I thought: huh, feels a bit long, but I'm probably just a little tight from roaming around all day. Then when we got back and I was untacking him I remembered and realized the stirrups were in fact down one setting from where I usually have them. Go figure. :lol: Sometimes the best way to try things is to not think about it.


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## redbadger

Hopeful that I have more grain.


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## walkinthewalk

*“Sometimes the best way to try things is to not think about it.”*

Amen to that, lol.

Look at that handsome, beseeching face! Pleeeezzzz may I have more treats! I have been so good today - I have not done one thing wrong


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## MeditativeRider

I love that picture. It reminds me of our puppy. She is always looking at me like that for just a little more (generally for apples, carrots, or peanut butter).


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## redbadger

walkinthewalk said:


> *“Sometimes the best way to try things is to not think about it.”*
> 
> Amen to that, lol.
> 
> Look at that handsome, beseeching face! Pleeeezzzz may I have more treats! I have been so good today - I have not done one thing wrong


Heck, that's how I cantered for the first time: Jasper decided! I had nothing to do with it at the time. 

He rarely gets treats from me. He would like more grain though. 

I told my trainer that while he is not always good, he is always perfect. (unfortunately, many other people feel the same way.)


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## redbadger

I hadn't seen him in more than a week - last Thursday he was down the Cape, Monday he was down the Cape again. He's just about shed out all his winter coat and let me tell you: he's stunning and some days he's the most beautiful thing I've ever seen, and no picture could capture it. Do you know how sun looks on tall grass when it moves in the wind? Make that shades of red and copper, and that's how he looks when he moves.

Happily, he is full of beans. Unfortunately, today he was 15lbs of beans in a 5lb bag. He gets the happy - we'll run, and then the next time he's even more ready, and the next, and the next, and he's hard to slow down. I know a not insignificant part of that is probably me getting subtly tenser as he gets faster and anticipating him running. He was rather too much today - even going in the spin cycle (which eventually becomes detrimental), or weaving around in the woods or the back orchard to put some work into his brain he just didn't want to bring it down. As much as I love his enthusiasm... yikes. (but I wish I'd had my watch set, he might've set a new record). He did eventually slow down after weaving about the back orchard several times. Back to square one: maybe just walking for a little while. (the opposite of "make him work" I suppose. Make him do it the hard way, by walking instead of cantering). 

So we came back, untacked, had a rest. Tried to coax him into having some more water (water in a bucket, he says! how PEDESTRIAN of you. I want SPECIAL water, which is full of microbes and tastes like moss). 

After our siesta: got back on bareback. That actually went swimmingly: with a LOT of singing on my part (it calms me down), we went down the trail and made it all the way to the neighbor's driveway and back, which is perhaps a quarter mile (at best), but is actually on the trail and not just in the yard. There are some up and down bits which were tricky, but we survived and so I count the day as a wild success.


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## walkinthewalk

YAY! Jasper is feeling better!

A great description of his glowing coat. I am sure his handsomeness takes your breath away and that was probably a big part of Jasper’s “I Feel Good” (think James Brown’s I Feel Good dance. antics —- he knows how handsome he is

When you said the bareback ride “-went swimmingly-“ you know where my first thought went😂. 

I was glad to read on and learn that wasn’t the case


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## redbadger

walkinthewalk said:


> YAY! Jasper is feeling better!
> 
> A great description of his glowing coat. I am sure his handsomeness takes your breath away and that was probably a big part of Jasper’s “I Feel Good” (think James Brown’s I Feel Good dance. antics —- he knows how handsome he is
> 
> When you said the bareback ride “-went swimmingly-“ you know where my first thought went😂.
> 
> I was glad to read on and learn that wasn’t the case


I am glad he feels good! But, we do need to work on better listening (and me communicating), even when he is happy. There are good safe places to run, and places that are not so safe. Also, I'm not sure how fast he can actually go (he's been clocked at 20mph), but there is a "too fast, this isn't fun" threshold, at least for me. (it's also a little frustrating because, since he doesn't do that for most other people, it's hard to talk about that with all but a few people - I don't want the kids, for one, to get the idea that they can just run him around, because he'll either get hurt or he'll get mad when they start hauling on his mouth). 

Oh, lord knows he knows he's a beautiful and magnificent creature. Why shouldn't he go fast? Fast is the BEST OF SPEEDS. Minimum, a trot. (and he's got the most pleasant jog you can just float to). I can only imagine what he was like at 8 or 9. He's not just fast, either - he's brave. This fellow firmly believes that the best way to get past any obstacle is a straight line. Going around it is for weenies, and he is no weenie. 

You know, honestly, if I didn't have a phone in my pocket (and my medic license in my wallet), falling off into the water wouldn't be so terrible bareback. The lakes are still a bit cool - in the low 60s - but neither of us minds water, and it hurts less than ground. And no tack would get ruined!  

Turns out on Monday we get to go down to a state forest about an hourish south of the barn - hooray for a change of scenery, and for big, wide, flat trails. (seriously: this is the place where the hunter pace is held, and I watched some people's helmet videos, and thought: wow, this is so ... clear, and flat, and free of roots and branches.) I've hiked on the human trails there before, and it's very pretty.


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## redbadger

So! We went to a different state park a few miles away for the field trip but it was still fun and new. The horse-accessible trails are mostly groomed and some are wide enough to accommodate three horses side-by-side. It was a beautiful day with beautiful scenery. Jasper tried to snack, because of course, a new place is a great place to test out whether maybe he can eat on THIS trail... We had the chance to lead a few times, which was good for us, I think - Jasper wasn't too sure about it, because neither of us had ever been here, but we got over it. He was excited to be in a new place, a little jiggy, but alert and interested. We rode for about two hours, mostly walking, some trotting and cantering. At first he wasn't too sure about cantering in the lead, but my trainer suggested it's because neither of us knows what's ahead (I mean, I can see that the trail is clear and flat, but do we really _know_ it like we do the trails at home? No, not the same). It was a lovely time. 

Also, lucky Jasper got to spend many, many minutes eating tasty grass before we set off and after we got back to the trailer to untack. Happy Jas. 










I could go on for entire paragraphs trying to describe exactly what his coat looks like. Suffice to say I think he is beautiful in all ways. (his butt is sort of canted toward me in this photo, which is why he looks a bit off.)

The weather has been superb (well, less superb for working in - 83F and sunny is less fun when you are wearing long cargo pants and a polyester blend button-down) and will be again tomorrow, so it should be a good ride. I am happy to spend time with him regardless. Horse-time makes up for work being brutal. 

There is a new boarder at the barn, which is causing something of a stir (she needs to be in a private paddock because she is highly aggressive toward other horses, she is a cribber, she ripped a piece of flashing off an inside window within 4 hours of being at the barn, her owner wants her stalled all but one hour of the day...and she's not a small horse, either, she's close to Jasper's height ... hoo boy) and thus something I just want to avoid as much as possible. Don't think she likes Jasper overmuch, but I've gotten the impression she feels that way about most horses. I'd feel bad for her if I didn't think she was going to hurt someone.


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## walkinthewalk

What a great ride you had! It really sounds like you have an Aces trainer - I hope you never lose her? or him?

Jasper as usual is looking “brutally handsome” but he does seem to be saying “all this new grass to test and you have tied me to the trailer——-“

Why on earth would the new mare’s owner want her in lockdown 23 hours a day? Unless she is metabolic, she would be much better off outside provided there is someone she can get along wit. Even being metaboli,she still needs more than an hour turnout — no wonder she’s a nut job

Thru the years, I have had folks ask me to board their horses and I always say no. I tell them A) you can’t afford me. B) Even if you could, you would not like my rules—- the owner of the new mare would not like my rules


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## redbadger

walkinthewalk said:


> What a great ride you had! It really sounds like you have an Aces trainer - I hope you never lose her? or him?
> 
> Jasper as usual is looking “brutally handsome” but he does seem to be saying “all this new grass to test and you have tied me to the trailer——-“
> 
> Why on earth would the new mare’s owner want her in lockdown 23 hours a day? Unless she is metabolic, she would be much better off outside provided there is someone she can get along wit. Even being metaboli,she still needs more than an hour turnout — no wonder she’s a nut job
> 
> Thru the years, I have had folks ask me to board their horses and I always say no. I tell them A) you can’t afford me. B) Even if you could, you would not like my rules—- the owner of the new mare would not like my rules


Her. She is a good friend. She reminds me a lot of another friend of mine across the country - also a horsewoman, but not able to ride or work with horses right now due to circumstance. 

Oh! I only tied him to untack him (and to practice tying a quick-release knot). Fear not he had plenty of time to gorge. (maybe not enough time by HIS standards, but plenty by the standards of the guy who has to clean his butt in the springtime so the flies don't get him). 

I wish I knew!  I think it might be their first horse? She is very pretty - tall, black and white paint, good conformation from what I can see (don't really wanna get too close), good weight. But god - even just in the stall with the ordinary comings and goings, her eyes were so wide you could see the white all around. She looked like she was about to have a heart attack. She's young (five, so I'm told), and honestly, she probably would be a lot better with some good outside time. Let her work off some of that nervous energy and maybe learn some social skills (of course, the BO and staff sensibly don't want her to hurt any of the other horses). But Jasper was in the stall next to her - not even looking at her, not even facing her - literally, the opposite direction, munching hay - and she'd scream and get set to start kicking the walls. It's a big yikes.


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## walkinthewalk

1. Wow - I feel sorry for the horse. Even if she is healing from some sort of leg injury, all her stall antics aren’t going to help the healing process.

Some years back my friend’s horse suffered a tendon injury on a hind leg. She had to keep him locked up nearly the entire 24 hours and he was only allowed out if she led him. He was on her farm, she was retired, and it was still a nightmare as the horse was only 6-7 at the time.

Conversely, my Joker hyper extended a tendon in a hind leg (the lameness vet’s words). He did not want Joker shut in, except at night. Joker’s side of the barn opens into a 1/2 acre barnyard. He could see the other horses most of the time.

Joker is a fairly quiet/laid back horse, the vet wanted him to be able to be in/out of the barn at will, and be able to be alone in the barnyard so he could exercise himself at his pace, which is generally slow. I had to cold hose and wrap his leg 2X/day. Joker healed as fast as any horse in lockdown, and a lot more sane in the process.

@redbadger , if you ever get your own farm, be sure to have not only a paddock befween the barn and main pasture, but be sure to make a small “sick bay“ area, to where the horse can get in the barn or has plenty of shade. I’ve lost count of the times I have used that side yard for illness or injury, in the 18 years we have been here.

2. I figured the look on Jasper’s face wasn’t quite the truth, lollol.

3. You are so fortunate to have a trainer who is so astute to the horse. Whatever your training fees are, they are worth every penny


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## redbadger

Barn rest when they're injured is another matter - and it can be very hard on them. Most of the horses at this barn live outside 24/7 365. Stall boarders come in for breakfast and dinner, and stay in during bad weather (snowstorms, hurricanes or major rainfall, extremely cold temps). The barn has four main pastures (well, "pasture" - New England soil and weather do not make for tons of lush grass) - one for the ponies, one for the stall boarders, and two for a combination of boarders and hack line horses. Then there are a hand of smaller paddocks. There's a lot of flexibility in the set up, at least to a point. The new mare seems to be otherwise healthy. She's calmed down a touch but still looks like she'll jump out of her skin at any moment. Hopefully things work out. 

I say trainer - I don't do formal lessons with her in the ring as much anymore, though mostly because Jasper thinks that being in the ring is a Crime Against Horse (tm). However, when we ride together, she advises me, and I go to her for advice often. Since I don't pay her for regular lessons, I covered a few rounds of her horse's medication (he has complications from EPM). But I would've done that anyway. She is a good person and sensible. 

So, well - I said it would be a beautiful day for a ride, and it was. But, I've finally done it: I've finally fallen off a horse. 

Things were going well. He's got a new saddle pad (brand new!) and it's obviously not as broken in as his other one, and I thought the girth needed tightening, so I got off (on trail) to tighten it up (as I've done before). Well, I tightened it up (or so I thought!), found a rock to use as a block, put my foot in to swing up and - down it went, taking me with it. Jasper stopped just about as soon as I hit the ground. I tied him to a tree (good practice with the quick-release knot), retacked him, and then found somewhere to hop on where I didn't have to use a stirrup (this meant scrambling up a massive downed tree). He wasn't thrilled with this process. We went on a little further just so we weren't going straight home, and then went home again. I feel a little bit like a sack of pears that's spent a few miles in the bed of a pickup truck, I've got some nasty scrapes (skinned my knuckles on a tree), and my brain feels a little jostled, but I'm ok and more importantly so is he. 

I can't even say my pride is all that battered - yes, I took a spill, yes, it was my fault, but neither of us is seriously injured and we both stayed sensible about it (mostly: Jasper thought we should go right home once I was back on) and here we are. We'll just try again next time, no big deal.


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## knightrider

Glad you are OK. I fell off this morning also. My Chorro did a spin bolt when he saw an escaped hunting dog come over the hill. I thought I was going to stay on when he leaped sideways, but went flying when he took off galloping. I hurt, but nothing is broken, sprained, or torn. Tomorrow I go camping for 4 days taking 2 horses. I couldn't pack anything before today because I have a rat problem in my trailer and have to keep things rats might chew stored until I leave. But I've managed to get everything packed OK so I think it all will go well.

I hope you are feeling better. I'll be commiserating with you.


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## walkinthewalk

@redbadger I don’t consider the saddle slipping, before you even took a step, a fall, lollol

Many kudos and cookies to Jasper for simply standing there and not using the opportunity to head home sans his rider 

I have ridden bareback the bulk of my life. I have climbed up footholds in cemetery walls, put horses down in three foot deep ditches, taught them to park out, used tail gates of trucks, climbed up huge rocks while watching for Sidewinders in the Southern California rock hills. If you can think it up, I probably crawled up it to get back on my horse, lollollol

@knightrider I hope you really are feeling ok — I can tell by some of your descriptions of falls that you sometimes mask the reality.

Have a great camping trip and stay safe


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## redbadger

He was on his way as I was getting up - I had my leg already over as I came down, and he was taking a few steps because LET'S GO ALREADY (and the train was in the vicinity). I was a little surprised he stopped, too, but the saddle was nearly under him, so I don't know that he could've gone far. I always thought it was a bit of a toss-up as to whether he'd leave a rider behind, with a lean toward "probably not", because he'd notice the rider was gone and he'd at least stop somewhere. Anyway, it's enough of a fall that I am feeling the ground (and some old chronic injuries of mine are more than a little upset). 

I am happy to use whatever to bring me up to a suitable height to mount up. Lots of stone walls in these parts, and plenty of glacial boulders. I just didn't want to test the stirrup again. :lol: Jasper fusses over my (to him) incompetence. 

@knightrider I'm glad you're ok - falls AND rats! What a time. I have no advice for either, but I do have A TON of liniments and ice packs to recommend. I hope you have a ton of fun camping without any loose dogs to scare your Chorro.


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## redbadger

Well, all is forgiven, apparently - he went out happy (aside from eyeballing the grass - in fairness, he usually eats before public trail rides while the guide is getting everyone up), no trouble. We were out at the same time as three other folks from the barn, but not with them. (one is the gentle but ditzy woman who owns a nice, but young and inexperienced horse, and another is a woman who hasn't ridden her horse in most of a year because she moved to Georgia and didn't take the horse with her. Last time she rode this horse, the horse bucked her off. I felt like I ... did not want to be in proximity to any of this. So I was just like yeah, Jasper and I need to go and be by ourselves so we can settle up about the fall and all the accompanying nonsense). 

We just walked. Walking is fine! Walking is great. He would've trotted and cantered had I asked, but a) the ground was a bit iffy after the storms last night and b) sometimes not running is just better also c) it was a bit hot by the time we left the barn and why stress if it's not needed? He was unhappy to discover that Special Water (a seasonal stream that runs down from the under the railroad grade to the lake) has all dried up. Can't say I'm thrilled either - it dries up just when it is most needed. 

We came around a turn and found an ATV'er heading right toward us. Nowhere to get to. Fortunately the guy saw us and stopped. Jasper turned away as the guy got close, but he didn't run, and once the guy stopped we walked right by him. Jas wanted to pick it up and get away - I don't blame him - but we still just walked. I was pleased with him - he was brave, after all, to stand and face a whole noisy ATV and not run (there wasn't much to run to, but I've no doubt if he was really scared, he'd have made some room). 

I'm going to DC for a week+ next Thursday, but I should see him again on Monday before I go. He's seeing the farrier tomorrow, he's got his equi-spot on (which is working nicely!), and I'm going to worry over him when I'm not busy eating home cooking, touristing, and doing my swimming race. (but I do often. I'm hopeless. I know he's fine, I just miss him when I can't see him).


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## walkinthewalk

Coming face-to-face with an ATV’r who had some common sense was the best thing for both you and Jasper. It truly gave you an opportunity to instill another layer of trust and respect.

Two thumbs up for all three of you

A creek has gone dry already? I thought your storm brought a lot of rain? Dry creek’s where you live, this early is a double eyebrow raiser. I hope the hay growers can stay on track with production this year. We have already had some first cuts in my area. When I lived on the OH/PA border first cut was generally end of May or June, and I can remember some first cuts around July 4th.

Your vacation is a two-edged sword, lollol. I understand the worry over Jasper but he will be fine

Your family will be so happy to see you that you won’t have too much time to be lonely for Jasper


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## redbadger

An ATV, other horses in the woods, no running ... sure, let's throw all kinds of wrenches into this ride. :lol: He did very well. It was good for us to see a bunch of weird things. (hey, at least it wasn't a sofa... )

Well, "creek" would be well overstating the case. It's a very shallow little stream - doesn't even show up on the maps. And it's typically seasonal and flows most heavily in the Spring. It does dry up pretty quickly but this is somewhat early for the whole thing to go. In summer we typically stop for a drink at the river on our way out, either going on toward the co-op farm or crossing the river and going up the power lines. We've got steady rain in the forecast all weekend, so I'm hoping it'll help with the dry/drought conditions. It's also been very hot very early - many of the local the lakes are already into the 70s in some spots, which doesn't usually happen til mid June. And the pollen has been ghastly. 

My friend says I have a crush on my horse and she's kind of right :lol:. I want to buy him nice things, I think about ways to make him feel better and stay healthy, and whether or not he's getting enough to eat and drink and not getting exhausted and frustrated. I worry the kids (teenagers) will get wind he runs for me, or even that he can jump, and try and make him do it in the ring and get him hurt. (Some of the kids just haven't quite learned yet that not every horse is suitable for every activity, for any number of reasons (age, size, personality, soundness, experience) and that that's ok.)

But I also trust my trainer to do her best to make sure he's ok (she cares about all the horses anyway, and she knows that he and I have a strong relationship). So I'll only worry a little before going off and having fun.


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## redbadger

I missed my buddy. Of course, I came back from my trip with a sore throat, and then the worst reflux I've had in 10 years, which landed me in the ED for most of Tuesday (had to call out of work, which I did _not_ want to do). Still not feeling my best. I followed out on a couple of trail rides yesterday - regular old walk rides. I just didn't feel up to going by ourselves, but I did want to spend time with him. 

The second trail ride was a bit of a pain - one of the boarders came with us some of the way, peeled off to go by the lake, and then caught up with us later, which Jasper didn't like - she cantered/trotted to catch up with us, and then Jas was stuck with her horse on his hip and me keeping him off Lavi's butt. He was making ears at the boarder's horse. 

Today, after some unpleasant pre-scheduled medical testing, I went to go see him and we went out by ourselves. We had a good ride. Energetic, smooth, good off the leg. We didn't have to have any major discussions. He was very unhappy that the little stream has gone bone dry again - he was all set to try and follow the course all the way back up to the railbed, hoping it might still have something in it. Alas: all gone. Life is hard, that he must drink ordinary water from a bucket. (that's fair: running water is probably better) We'll just have to stop at the river (creek) instead, which does have a good flow. After the farrier comes and I feel ok taking him up and down the powerlines/gas line, we'll cross it. (he's due and those are relatively steep, long hills). 

Explicit word from the BO is that he _would_ sell me Jasper if/when he gets a replacement - which, god, I would love. I know Jas is an old man, but we are buddies. We could be happy with however long we get together. Of course, finding a horse that is sane, sound, and reasonably priced ... well, you know, how it goes. "Pick two". But I'm still looking. I didn't get a chance to ask if I can make off with him for the hunter pace in the fall - the hardest part about that is that it's a Sunday, and weekends into November are still pretty busy, especially with the foliage. I would just pay him for what he'd make in a day if it came to that. I don't think we'd do well - I just want to know if we can go to a strange place, and ride together successfully there by ourselves. And I think Jasper would like it.


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## walkinthewalk

I am so sorry you came home with a bad sore throat. That water your meet was in was pretty polluted🤮🤮

Many many years ago there was a biker band in Cleveland, Ohio called the Burnt River Band. They were a great band - I heard them a few times.

They named themselves for the Cuyahoga River, after it literally caught on fire from all the pollution — you can google that true story, lollol

The BO actually committing to selling Jasper to you, provided a Suitable replacement can be found is great news!!

That means many of us are on a serious hunt for a replacement. Even the out West folks who may know someone who knows someone


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## egrogan

I have seen a few posted lately that made me think of you! I will copy them over here when I see them


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## redbadger

@walkinthewalk I'm uncertain if it was the water or not! Which neither smelled nor tasted (like, I didn't drink it, but you've got no choice in getting it in the mouth) particularly foul - better than some of the rivers here on a toasty summer morning. That said, the water _is_ high on my list of culprits. I know of the Cuyahoga - it caught on fire _several_ times during the 20th century. 🤢 And Boston, of course, is infamous for its own dirty water - both the harbor and the Charles River are now far cleaner than they were 15 or 20 years ago, though like the Potomac, the sediment will probably always be bad. At any rate I'm feeling somewhat better today.

The BO actually used to have a dealer that he used who'd sort of trawl the auctions and sales and bring over a few horses, and apparently it'd basically be one or two would be suitable. That's kind of how things are going now (the dealer passed away a couple of years ago) - he'll acquire a couple of horses, they turn out to be not very suited to trail work. Of the ones he's purchased in the last few years, one is a handsome QH but bucks (as in, was probably trained to do it), another is a high-anxiety TWH (which he just sold, actually), one needs some significant retraining, one was bought by the nice, gentle, ditzy woman who used to lease Lavinia, another one one of the pony kids/now trail guides fell in love with and just bought (ok, "someone fell in love with this horse and bought it immediately" is actually several horses), and finally there's one who's still on the line. (he's actually a fine, good-natured fellow who, if I didn't have Jasper, I would probably be in love with. He needs to build some muscle and put some weight on, but he's the only one of any he's bought that I immediately thought "I like him. I'd ride him.") He's gotten a bunch of them from a guy up in VT who seems to have found a good way to get rid of the dregs of his hack herd (obviously, not @egrogan !) 

I believe he got Jasper from an auction about 2 hours west of Boston, which I guess is widely known for being hit or miss (I guess all auctions are). @egrogan might know more about - I've never been there. Now that COVID's receding (we hope), I might take a trip out and see what it's all about. Not to buy - I have more sense than to go alone to a livestock auction and buy something without thinking long and hard about it, and coming the day before for a test ride. No matter how cute any of 'em are. (There are many good horses. Many of these horses would be good for other, more experienced people. The place down in WV that did a bait-and-switch with the belgian cross last year has a bunch of drafts and draft crosses this year, but they're all young and were feral: great horses, perhaps, but not for me.)


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## egrogan

redbadger said:


> He's gotten a bunch of them from a guy up in VT who seems to have found a good way to get rid of the dregs of his hack herd (obviously, not @egrogan !)


Haha, a dealer I am not- mine are here for good once they get here. But yes, there are a fair number of camp horse/summer trail riding places in VT and horses come and go with the seasons at those places. Pond Hill Ranch has a reputation for being pretty trustworthy, others, maybe not so much. 

I'm a sentimentalist at heart and I'd really just like you and Jasper to end up together. And I know how hard it is to find what you're looking for, given my own searching in the past. Temperament and training wise, I'd recommend in a heartbeat that you visit my mare's breeder down in Litchfield, CT. But they are Morgan people and as solid and strong as a Morgan is, that's not the horse that you can put on a public string and have the horse able to stand up to all shapes and sizes of riders that visit the barn. 

I will continue to keep my eye out for you!


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## redbadger

egrogan said:


> Haha, a dealer I am not- mine are here for good once they get here. But yes, there are a fair number of camp horse/summer trail riding places in VT and horses come and go with the seasons at those places. Pond Hill Ranch has a reputation for being pretty trustworthy, others, maybe not so much.
> 
> I'm a sentimentalist at heart and I'd really just like you and Jasper to end up together. And I know how hard it is to find what you're looking for, given my own searching in the past. Temperament and training wise, I'd recommend in a heartbeat that you visit my mare's breeder down in Litchfield, CT. But they are Morgan people and as solid and strong as a Morgan is, that's not the horse that you can put on a public string and have the horse able to stand up to all shapes and sizes of riders that visit the barn.
> 
> I will continue to keep my eye out for you!


We actually have a morgan (I don't know if she's registered, I think she might be) on the line! Sometimes she can be a witch, and sometimes she can be spectacular (she is often very good with kids, but if she thinks she can get away with eating, she will. The whole way.). She is a strong, sturdy horse but yes, not for the big-and-tall-beginner set. 

I wish I knew where Jasper came from. Then I might have a line. :lol: But a horse like him, 10 years younger, is probably worth a small fortune. (fun story: I was idly flipping through a John Wayne movie the other day, and one of the horses looked exactly like Jasper, save different leg markings.) 

Perhaps by the end of summer places will be starting to thin out their herds for winter. At least if I'm not looking for a horse for _me_, I just need a horse who meets qualifications, not one that I'm in love with. 

Jas was feisty today. The weather was perfect, not hot, not humid, just bright and clear and dry with a nice breeze. He was happy to go over the logs, but didn't want to slow down. I never know exactly what to do with that: if I had the space, safely, I'd just make him run his beans out until he realized it was in fact hard work. (he is, though, in good shape: I think he could take the whole regular 3 miles at a trot/canter and be fine. Unfortunately, there are just too many rocks, tree roots, and down hill stretches to test this). 

He is funny, too: ordinarily he's very fussy about his face, which is a perfectly fine, normal thing for an animal that has major blind spots and no binocular vision (though he's less tolerant than many horses). But today he wanted ALL the brushing and ALL the ear-scratches. He was more than content to have me all but scrub his blaze for him.


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## walkinthewalk

If there are any Amish communities within your driving distance, I might be tempted to visit one and ask if they know someone who has a horse of that fits your bosses criteria and would make a good string horse.

They all specialize in going to auctions and you might stand a chance of picking up a good horse for not much money.

Of course when it comes to riding and buggy horses, the Amish are divided as far as care and abuse. Some are fantastically good with all their horses, others need me to use my rusty old pig denutter on them. 

You would also have to be wary of them over pricing a horse because “a Yankee” is doing the inquiring. If you have been reading @Cordillera Cowboy ’s thread about a possible horse purchase, dealing with the Amish can be in similar vein, lollol. 

I was raised around them and could relay good and bad stories of how they treated all their animals.

Just another avenue to ponder


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## redbadger

There are a few - a fairly recent settlement up in Vermont, and I think a few communities in Maine. My trainer lived in PA for a long time and had similar experiences with Amish folks as you have - the folks she encountered, as she described it, would train a horse beautifully, but also tended to treat their horses more as farm equipment than companion animals. So, mixed. 

It depends on what "overpricing" is. Within the realm of possibility for a sound, sane, rideable horse in New England is very different than in Texas. Of course, now that we can travel reasonably safely, it would not be a bad time to go on a roadtrip, either...


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## walkinthewalk

@redbadger I was raised on the OH/PA border and spent my first 50 years there.

Lancaster, PA has a huge Amish population. I actually remember when our local Amish sects were so depleted of “clean“ marrying blood, elders made a trip to Lancaster to bring back women - I am not kidding, lollol. I can’t remember exactly when that was but I was boarding my horses so it was sometime in the early 90’s. It was done on the QT but there were no secrets in the rural end of the county I lived in, if you knew who to ask, lollollol

Anyway, the Amish communities in and around Lancaster, PA area might be a decent place to inquire.

This might be a place to start. These folks may be Mennonite unless the Laws of the Amish have changed and they allow their pictures to be taken.

I am surprised to see a website promoting Amish trade but again, it may be a place to start an inquiry



https://www.amishbuggyrides.com/


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## majesticonelove2132

I think this is a great deal!!! Do It!


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## redbadger

Well this is a bit of a monkey wrench. The BO, who can be ... cantankerous, let's say, lost his temper and fired my trainer (who is also a trail guide and barn help) on Saturday. I'm upset on her behalf (her income! her horse!) and I think the BO will regret it, but I also feel (rather selfishly, I know) sad, and nervous because even if we don't really do lessons anymore (Jasper thinks the ring is a Crime Against Horse) she's a guide and mentor. I know we go out alone all the time, but it's nice to have someone there to hash things out with (and show off to).  

This doesn't change my leasing situation - I'm still leasing him, and allegedly the BO is acquiring a few more horses (there was a new one there on Monday). But now I don't think we'll get to go to the hunter pace (so selfish, I know, I'm sorry) because I'd have to find someone to drive us. (I could hire my trainer to do it, as she has her own trailer, but I'm sure that would cause friction...) Anyway. We will keep working at what we can, though. (I say we: he is much better at this than I am.)

It's supposed to be much, much cooler tomorrow after the rain. Monday was bad - we left the barn at 8:30am, were out for about 45 minutes at a walk on largely level terrain, and he still came back soaked. (of course, he still would not deign to drink freshly filled inside water, but shoved his head in the outside tubs IMMEDIATELY on being turned out.)


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## knightrider

That's a real bummer. So sorry.


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## walkinthewalk

I am so sorry to hear this turn of events - especially if it was unexpected and came out of nowhere. I hope the BO didn’t “cut his nose to spite his face“ as the saying goes.

I hope you can forge ahead with Jasper, in that the next person doesn’t try to reduce your time with Jasper ——- or maybe the BO will see the error of his ways and being your trainer back

Keep us posted, please


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## redbadger

Word on the street is he was angry because the folks who bought the (so far) unrideable TWH are going to move to another barn (they already have a TWH and a warmblood). They were (at least the mom was) going to be, ah, stressful owners anyway - they decided they didn't like our shavings, so they bought their own, and then demanded no other horse be allowed to use the stall at all. (As in, during the day when horses are out and the barn is doing trail rides and other things). Anyway he accused the barn staff of "costing [him] another boarder" and there was a fight. The BO can be a hotheaded old man and I believe he will regret this. There are two women who love Jasper (they don't lease - only ride every month or two) I think only liked to ride with my trainer. (A few of the regulars do). 

Since I endeavor to stay under the radar and carefully neutral with the BO and others I don't think there's bias against me and I'm largely outside the drama. I just want to spend time with Jasper in peace. Nothing complicated. If I owned him, I suppose I would have his teeth looked at and maybe look into something for his arthritis (which might be less aggravated with one person riding him regularly). But he is healthy, in good shape, alert and seems content, so I am happy. 

I was not able to physically ride today (but, medicine has figured some things out and I should be back to normal soon), but I visited to drop off his lease check and give him breakfast and brush time. I think he was a bit confused and perhaps disappointed not to go out with me. I had a time getting him out - the TWH is getting aggressive in a way that will quickly become dangerous. The young woman who owns Chief (the absolute mildest QH, a labrador with hooves) had to distract him so I could bring Jas in.


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## redbadger




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## walkinthewalk

Well that’s a barn soap opera drama in the making If folks really like your trainer/friend, maybe they will speak up to the BO about bringing her back. 

Yes it is best if you can avoid being made to take sides and stay neutral.

This ^^^^ is the picture of two people who should be together permanently


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## redbadger

I mean, I also wouldn't blame her if she didn't want to come back. The BO can be a right jerk, and she's put up with a lot from him. 

As a paramedic (and having worked in customer service) I've become uncomfortably practiced at a kind of earnest neutrality. The sort of countenance you put on when someone is clearly crazy or wildly out of bounds, but you need to keep them calm and maintain at least a semblance of professionalism. :lol: 

Isn't he a stunner? It's hard to get a good photo of his face, because it's roughly the size of a smart car and my arms are simply not that long. And he doesn't like having his picture taken, sneaky old fellow. But that's a thinking face and I love him for it. Always looking over at me like "Hm. What're you up to over there?" Lots going on in those old-man eyes. I like to wonder what he knows. (I'm a romantic.)


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## gottatrot

Every time I see new posts on this thread I hope and hope to read ..."and Jasper is mine." I will be throwing a party here.


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## redbadger

Update: still not mine. I'm ... let's say a little frustrated (ok, more than a little). It's been a long week (had to work on my birthday, had a long night and got out an hour and a half late). I usually ride on Thursday morning, but because there were already trail rides scheduled in the morning (and the kid who guides doesn't put in who he's using) I put myself in the schedule book for 4pm today. Like, quite clearly, right there. The ponykid - who is now taking out pretty much all the trail rides, since my trainer was fired (and, sure, put your business in the hands of a 16 year old, be my guest) - had already untacked, fed, and turned out Jasper. So I then had an absolute time with him, because of course, his brain recognizes that naked+food+field=all done working. He balked and balked and balked, and we didn't even make it down to the meadow. So I was frustrated with myself, and furious at the ponykid for putting him back out when he knew full well that I was on the schedule. In fact, he'd just finished turning Jasper out as I got there at like 3:45. I know I shouldn't let Jasper get away with being a knucklehead, but I'm exhausted and all I wanted was a nice, peaceful ride with my buddy. And I'm frustrated that I couldn't make him get into gear, and that it feels like he's never going to be mine. Every time the BO buys a new horse, I swear, it's either unrideable or too small - he just bought a grey mare a couple of weeks ago, but she's a light-framed lady and only about 15hh. It's driving me wild. 

It's not Jasper's fault. We'll try again Monday. He got some double-barrel ear scratches (he puts his head down, and I scratch-scratch-scratch in his ears until he snorts and shakes, he seems to enjoy this). He's lucky he's pretty.


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## walkinthewalk

I hit “like” based on your last paragraph and to acknowledge I read - the - entire - post.

Genius move on the part of the BO — putting a 16 year old in charge of something as serious as leading a trail ride of people on his horses

Happy Birthday and the mom in me says to get some sleep, tomorrow will be better


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## redbadger

I'm not disparaging 16 year olds by any stretch, but god love them, their brains just aren't finished cooking yet. They can make some pretty good decisions and some pretty bad ones. (I qualify "leading a ride out when it's definitely thundering" as a bad decision, which apparently he did the other day.) My trainer (I guess my friend now) suggested maybe after hard work day in and day out the kid'll get a sense of the not-so-fun parts of barn life. 

Tropical Storm Elsa, such as she is, is moving through today. As long as the winds aren't bad, the horses will be fine and filthy.


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## walkinthewalk

My favorite phrase for teenagers is “you just don’t have the street smarts yet”.

My good friend’s husband’s favorite phrase is “you ain’t got the seniority to decide on certain issues”


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## redbadger

Consequences are hard to grasp for teenagers. Like, why you really shouldn't go out when there's thunder. The other thing that worries me as a paramedic is that emergencies can be very hard to handle - even as an adult with experience and emotional resources. If someone takes a fall, or has a seizure, or some other medical issue, you've now got three or four other adults, and horses, along with an injured person, out in the middle of the woods. (admittedly, none of our woods are very far from civilization, but it still takes resources and coordination!) He's got a drag rider for the four and five person rides, I think, but she's still a teenager, too. I'm nervy but I think it's a disaster waiting to happen. (and that's not the hand of fate I really want to come smacking down on a kid.) 

One of these days the BO's gonna get a couple lazy old draft crosses and I'm gonna plunk down a check and Jasper's never going to have to worry about teenage nonsense again. (Except, there are two women who are also fond of him, and they could ride him as long as they asked me first. They ride rarely, and one of them doesn't want to come back unless my trainer does.)


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## redbadger

Update: no, I still don't own him. (is he my horse, in the sense I ride and love him more than anyone else, and we are partners? yes.) But, we had a much better ride this time. Monday the rain was horrendous (it's been a very wet July for us so far). The trails were not as ghastly as I thought - half mud, half "the rain has washed everything down to pine needles and clay". The bugs, though, are the devil's messengers and we both hate them. We just had a walk, due to trail conditions, didn't do our little jumps, and he was a good listener, even though he wanted to speed up at the usual places. (Are you sure, he says, are you SURE you don't want to run? Well I do want to run, but sir, neither of us wants to fall.) The river/creek is too high and too fast to cross - even from the trail, you can see the bubbles from the current along the deepest part. What I need to learn is to get across the street to the opposite hills with him - but I haven't been there in FOREVER, and I'm afraid to go by ourselves. I don't know how he feels about it, I haven't asked. But that would be a good thing to try, since we can't cross the river until it comes down.

We had some visitors at the barn (I think there was a pony ride miscommunication), couple of kids and their moms. He was much admired and stuffed with apples. The bigger kid did something like a snapchat on his phone with a picture of Jasper on the cross ties and the text REALLY BIG HORSE written on it, which was delightful. 

I'd gotten a couple of pears to try and give him, because he's had some trouble with crunchy stuff and I thought maybe he'd like a softer treat. He sniffed it, seemed to say, "what the heck is that?" and ignored it. He has opinions, he does (the other day he was interested in an otter pop/tube popsicle I was eating, but when I tried to give him a piece he was offended by how cold it was). Comet, another horse (a little old man of a quarter horse) took it and chewed it thoughtfully: "This is the strangest apple I've ever eaten." I gave some to Lavinia, the morgan mare, and she thought it was AMAZING and would've eaten them all day. Funny creatures.


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## walkinthewalk

At least the two of you are still sharing adventures and sort-of popsicles.

If Jasper is having trouble breaking off apples, you might see if the BO will let you put a sign on his door to please not feed him due to Senior age tooth issues. Choke would be a huge worry if he misses a chew and a big piece were to get stuck in his throat.

You could always chunk the apple into bite sized pieces at home, and put them in a container for you and Jasper to share once you get to the barn

FWIW I never did have a horse who liked pears but my Arab/Saddlebred was so crazy for blackberries he figured out how to pick them off the bush without getting his lips pricked, lol.


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## knightrider

All my horses like pears. I didn't know that some horses don't. Some horses like banana peels and some don't. They have to learn to like watermelon, probably because it feels cold. I would bet my horses would scarf down popsicles. Chorro and Windy love strawberry tops, but Isabeau and Acicate won't eat them.


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## egrogan

I tried to give Isabel pears eons ago and she hated them too. Same with bananas. Apples are fine.


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## knightrider

Here is a funny food treat story. My parents had a beef cattle farm in Melbourne, Florida, and on the side they had citrus trees too. When my niece was 6 years old, she flew to Florida to spend a month with her grandparents on the farm.

Soon after she arrived, my mom was showing her the farm. She stopped at a tangerine tree, picked a couple and let my niece reach through the fence and feed them to the cows. Our cows and horses love oranges and tangerines.

A few days later, my niece told my mom she had fed more tangerines to the cows. My mom thought that was cute until she went outside and discovered my niece had picked every single tangerine off every tree and fed them to the cows.

A few months later, each tangerine tree had about 6 or 8 absolutely HUGE tangerines up too high for my niece to reach.


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## redbadger

We tell visitors (and everyone) that all the horses only get sliced apples, not whole ones.  The pear was sliced as well. Jasper seems to be a traditionalist: apples and carrots. He didn't like watermelon, didn't like pears. I'm allergic to bananas, so I never have them on hand. (My dad eats them, but he buys exactly enough to have one a day for a week - no more, no less). I think he would've liked the popsicle if I'd plopped a piece in his water. My trainer said some folks will make them popsicles out of fruit & water in a jello mold, then put it in their water bucket. Jasper, who barely deigns to drink simple bucket water, would probably think I was nuts. I bet Romeo (who love LOVES drinking DIRECTLY from the hose) would probably think it was pretty good.


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## redbadger

knightrider said:


> Here is a funny food treat story. My parents had a beef cattle farm in Melbourne, Florida, and on the side they had citrus trees too. When my niece was 6 years old, she flew to Florida to spend a month with her grandparents on the farm.
> 
> Soon after she arrived, my mom was showing her the farm. She stopped at a tangerine tree, picked a couple and let my niece reach through the fence and feed them to the cows. Our cows and horses love oranges and tangerines.
> 
> A few days later, my niece told my mom she had fed more tangerines to the cows. My mom thought that was cute until she went outside and discovered my niece had picked every single tangerine off every tree and fed them to the cows.
> 
> A few months later, each tangerine tree had about 6 or 8 absolutely HUGE tangerines up too high for my niece to reach.


Aha! The amateur pruning technique! :lol: That's delightful. I didn't realize they could eat oranges! I was worried about the seeds.


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## redbadger

Just a handsome fella giving me the eyeball after being turned out on Monday. He rarely lets himself be photographed this effectively. Excuse the mud - the rain here has been utterly relentless and overwhelming the drainage.


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## walkinthewalk

Jasper sez “WHAT?!?!” “Surely you don’t want me for something else! I am hungry and thirsty!”

He is such an expressive doll face, lollol🥰🥰


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## redbadger

walkinthewalk said:


> Jasper sez “WHAT?!?!” “Surely you don’t want me for something else! I am hungry and thirsty!”
> 
> He is such an expressive doll face, lollol🥰🥰


"This water doesn't have nearly enough slime and backwash in it." 

See what I mean? Gears turning in there, full of opinions. And many more years of experience than I have, for sure.


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## redbadger

Well we've not been out much lately - last week it rained terribly on Thursday, but I went out to see him and give him breakfast anyway. I had also wanted to go out to one of the tack shops for a roping-style rope girth - he has a straight style one, but it's also not quite the right length. My trainer advised that the roping-style ones distribute weight better and are more comfortable for the horses, but it was a devil of a time finding one. I wanted to go to a local store, not a chain - but one local store was closed, and the other had just one rope girth. I ended up going to SmartPak, which has become mostly English (at least, this location), but found two there, both on clearance. Monday I had work-related training, so I went out Thursday.

But yesterday and today have been so, so hot - heat warnings and advisories. It was already in the 70s and humid at 6am when I got up to walk the dogs, and wasn't looking too good when I got to the barn at 7:30. But I only needed a short walk to see what he thought of at least one girth. Jasper wasn't thrilled with standing on the cross-ties while I fussed around with it, though he was happy with an early breakfast. It was too hot to do any more than walk, and just for about a half-hour. He clearly thought it was a bit strange at first, but then became more comfortable. Unfortunately, he also very badly needs his shoes done - the BO doesn't like to get the line horses done more often than every eight weeks. Likely, if he goes out over the weekend, he'll lose a shoe. I believe my trainer was going to try and finagle cancellations of any rides scheduled today, because it was just so ruthlessly hot. 

At any rate, no, he is still not mine (if he were, he'd get his shoes done in good time), and I will travel far and wide to keep him comfortable. I will even cut baby carrots in half for him to eat. 

I will say aside from fearing the terrible burning ball in the sky, going out early-early was actually rather nice.


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## walkinthewalk

It has been brutally hot everywhere. I’ve been at the barn by 6:30 AM most of the week, to let the horses have early grazing time (they’ve been living in front of their fans much of the day) and so I can get chores done and be back in the house by 9:30AM.

I can feel your frustration over Jasper. The BO is sounding less and less like someone I’d like  Keep doing the best you can for Jasper without getting the BO PO’d and you lose any chance of buying Jasper.


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## redbadger

walkinthewalk said:


> It has been brutally hot everywhere. I’ve been at the barn by 6:30 AM most of the week, to let the horses have early grazing time (they’ve been living in front of their fans much of the day) and so I can get chores done and be back in the house by 9:30AM.
> 
> I can feel your frustration over Jasper. The BO is sounding less and less like someone I’d like  Keep doing the best you can for Jasper without getting the BO PO’d and you lose any chance of buying Jasper.


The barn is consistently hotter than outside - even with the fans. Fortunately other than meals, the stall boarders and everyone else pretty much live outside all the time (with a few exceptions for weather, etc). 

The BO is basically an old cowboy. To a degree, I think he sees horses as working animals - more than farm equipment but less than companions. He's also stubborn, so yes, I am biding my time and paying my bills on time and periodically reminding him I want to buy Jas. 

I forgot - I did have a question about his saddle. I know it doesn't fit super well, but it's all we've got that comes close. He has high withers, a short back for his height, and is a bit narrower than you might imagine. Wonderful build to ride but hard to fit. But I was curious if anybody had an idea of the provenance of his saddle: 

















(We'd just got back) It has a badge that says "K BAR S", but no mark beyond that. It's also unusual among all the barn saddles for really not having any tooling at all - really just the contrast stitching, and an edge around the fenders. Aside from the seam being split on the leather at the top of the saddle horn, it's in good shape. I just can't seem to find anything quite like it on google.


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## walkinthewalk

K Bar S is a brand name but I don’t know who the manufacturer is. They make roping saddles and your saddle looks like a roping saddle.

I am the worst when it comes to eyeballing saddle fit. I know that folks suggest putting a white towel under the saddle andride just long enough to sweat the horse up and see where the saddle leaves sweat marks and where the towel is dry.

The saddle is just behind the wither bone, which is where should be and it stops before Jasper’s hip bone, which it should. Given he is short-backed, finding a western saddle at the barn to fit him this good was a bit of good luck

For all the more you are able to ride, it is probably a decent fit. Unless you see gald marks on his whithers from the saddle, I wouldn’t worry too much. You now have the girth situation hopefully resolved with the roping girth — did I say I have used those since I first heard of them in my 20’s or 30’s 

If the day comes that you see yourself able to trail ride several hours at a time, then I would get more serious about saddle fit. At that time, you might consider an endurance style saddle or. Plantation style saddle such as what are popular for Walking Horses

A horse doesn’t need to do endurance to wear an endurance saddle, nor does it have to be a Tennessee Walker to fit into a Plantation saddle


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## redbadger

He often does - in the summer and fall - work five hour-long trailrides, with breaks in between, and all kinds of people. No, he has no galls or any clear irritation. Yes, all the Western saddles seem terribly long - none of the ones the BO has bought in recent months would fit him, they all be on his hips.

His shoe situation was worse today, so I didn't ride him. I told him to throw a shoe if he knows what's good for him. I'm surprised he hasn't already. No dice yet. I know he's miserable and I wish I could fix it for him. 

On the upshot, I did get a chance to ride Romeo. Romeo is perhaps the only really sound horse that the BO has purchased (from the shady folks in VT) in the last year. Fortunately, he is also a sweet-natured chap whose only real vice was that he wasn't too keen on being mounted from the block. But one of the boarders and my trainer worked with him regularly and he's chilled out about it. He's a lovely dark bay with one of those falling manes, and a little bit of feathering that makes him look like a storybook horse. He's gaited, though I don't recall what. 

I rode him in the ring to get a sense of him and have supervision. After riding Jasper for more than a year ... being on anyone else is strange. Romeo is shorter, with a reasonably paced walk, but much slower by comparison. He has a heavier step generally, particularly on his left front.

I walked him around the ring a few times. My trainer isn't very familiar with gaited horses, but she told me not to post and he should be able to do it on his own. He's very smooth! It was fun. Very different than Jasper's various speeds. His canter was also small and quite smooth. And slow. So slow by comparison. Jasper _has_ a very slow, collected canter, but he also has a rolling canter (I call it the "Carousel canter"), and a long canter, and a normal canter. Romeo was very different to ride, but comfortable - for all that it is a different horse, a different saddle, and a long time off from being in the ring (which Jasper believes is a Terrible Crime Against Horses). Also, Romeo does some very interesting lateral movement when he's trying to tighten the circle. (not what I asked for, pal). It was good to give it a try, and also really fun to realize how much calmer I am with this completely new horse after spending so many hours working alone with Jasper. My trainer did not once have to tell me to relax or loosen my elbows :lol: A long way from when I first started, for sure.


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## redbadger

My trainer called as I was waking up from post-work nap to tell me Jasper FINALLY threw a shoe last night and the farrier is coming on Saturday. Joy! I told her to tell Jasper he is wonderful (not specifically for throwing a shoe just in general.)


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## walkinthewalk

Now that’s a smart horse🥰 

👍”GOOD JOB JASPER!!”👍. <—— this is what I say to my horses and dogs with two thumbs up. Believe me, they all know what it means. Their ears come forward and they wait for the rest of the pay off, which is cookies or soda crackers😂😂

Well —- the horses wait for soda crackers — they love soda crackers


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## redbadger

I mean, I also enjoy soda crackers, so I get that. I am happy that he'll not have to be ridden on overgrown feet for several days. Indeed, it's supposed to rain most of the weekend here so he may get a nice break overall if people cancel. Two meals a day, plenty of hay, and mud to roll in.


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## redbadger

It is _possible_ that, if a truck and trailer are available, we can go to the hunter pace in September. I am excited but not too excited. I told my trainer that if we ribbon (they do 1st 2nd and 3rd in each division) that the BO should have to give me Jasper. But I'm hoping dearly that we get to go and have a good time regardless. Let him run on some good, clean, wide trails.

Not much storm damage. Some branches down. He was a bit of an antsy-pants because he hadn't worked in four days. But, he was happy because Special Water was flowing due to the rains. We had a short ride, because I was late getting out and my trainer needed him for noon. But, when we got back there was APPARENTLY a tornado warning out (it missed us) so that ride rescheduled. Um, good thing I came back early just in case? 

We went out bareback for a bit in the yard. Had a bit of a time with him at first (antsy? weather? wants grass more than work? all of the above?) but we got it together. We trotted bareback! A little trot, not bouncy, and just for about 20-30 feet. It was very successful! My trainer saw us! I was very excited!


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## walkinthewalk

redbadger said:


> It is _possible_ that, if a truck and trailer are available, we can go to the hunter pace in September. I am excited but not too excited.
> 
> *I told my trainer that if we ribbon (they do 1st 2nd and 3rd in each division) that the BO should have to give me Jasper*. But I'm hoping dearly that we get to go and have a good time regardless. Let him run on some good, clean, wide trails.
> 
> Not much storm damage. Some branches down. He was a bit of an antsy-pants because he hadn't worked in four days. But, he was happy because Special Water was flowing due to the rains. We had a short ride, because I was late getting out and my trainer needed him for noon. But, when we got back there was APPARENTLY a tornado warning out (it missed us) so that ride rescheduled. Um, good thing I came back early just in case?
> 
> We went out bareback for a bit in the yard. Had a bit of a time with him at first (antsy? weather? wants grass more than work? all of the above?) but we got it together. We trotted bareback! A little trot, not bouncy, and just for about 20-30 feet. It was very successful! My trainer saw us! I was very excited!


To the contrary Red, if Jasper is in the ribbons, the BO’s eyebrows will raise and so will Jasper’s price,LOL

Fingers crossed you are able to get a rig and take Jasper

Great news you didn’t see much storm damage.

We didn’t see anything from any of the hurricanes, however Humphries County about 75-80 miles NW of us had storms come thru and sit on top of them. One area has 17.2 inches of rain in less than 24 hours, easily blowing past the old state record of 13+ inches in less than 24 hours.

The town of Waverly was nearly wiped out. To-date 21 people lost their lives, including 7month old twins and a toddler. I think around ten people are still unaccounted for. I’m sure it’s on the AP wire and the national weather channels are still covering it.

I saw some of the videos on local news and I just cannot watch anymore. I cannot dwell at looking at other people’s tragedies. I listen to the updates without watching.

I  did that crybaby whining to tell you, once again, I tip my hat in a big way to you and all of your EMT friends for everything you do. It can’t be easy emotionally- it takes special people to deal with these tragedies, get up the next day and do it all over again.

That alone ^^^^ would be enough for me to campaign for Jasper to be yours😇😇


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## redbadger

Counterpoint: since I can get him to run and jump willingly, if I place, I've earned him. (I will not place, I am not adroit, I have never done this before.) I just want us to be able to go and have a good time. Look what I got you, Jasper: a race! 

I tell you the all-nighters and the string of less-than-competent EMT partners is a strain. I got to the barn yesterday and leaned on Jasper and I think I'd have stood there all day just having a good lean and scratching his back and neck. 

My dad and I are going camping over labor day weekend and I found a place just over the border in NY for a trail ride. I'd really like to take him to see Jasper, but he's so impossible about going anywhere outside his routine.


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## knightrider

In the hunter paces where I rode, the time was decided by the judges, but unknown to us riders. They decided an "optimum time" which we foxhunters had to guess. We tried to figure out about how fast a fun foxhunt would go and tried to ride at about that pace. I never succeeded in guessing the correct time. I know that some years the judges made it very fast, much faster than a normal foxhunt pace would be. So then the next year we'd go very fast, but the next year the judges would decide to make it slower.

I don't know how your hunter pace is judged, but if I were you, I would find out if it is a race or is it "optimum time" or something else.


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## redbadger

It's an "optimum time", with different ones for each division/level - ie the more trot & canter, the faster the ideal time is. I know how long it takes him to cover 6 miles at a mostly walk with some trot and canter; whether or not that's the same as optimum for a normal horse... His trot is faster than some horses' canters.


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## redbadger

Hooray! We can go to the Hunter Pace! Now for fall to get going so it's not roastingly hot here.


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## redbadger

In spite of the heavy rain Wednesday into Thursday, the trails were not too terrible. The weather cleared off spectacularly by the time I got to the barn. Jasper had his breakfast "al fresco" as all the stalls were full (everyone stayed in due to the weather). He was good to go, energetic, responsive, and the weather was wonderful - dry and bright with a little cool wind. All the water was high, and the rushing seemed to make him a bit antsy - his ear said "hey, something's there". We didn't quite make it to Special Water - the approach was flooded to a foot or so, clear, still running from the railroad grade. So he had a good drink, and then tried to turn around - no dice, pal. (I could see the bottom clearly). Splashed along through it and hooked left to go back down the straightaway. He was good about it. Just a nice ride.

I am excited that we get to go to the Hunter Pace. All the jumps are optional, but I think we'll try a couple. He's better at it than I am, so we'll look for small ones. My trainer is going with us and riding the horse she guides with, but she says she'll let us go ahead and follow later. I think we'll have a great time.


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## redbadger

Sometimes Jasper pulls nonsense - like today, balking and trying to turn around in the first 10 minutes or so - but I feel more certain, now, that he has (at least what he perceives to be) good reasons. On the other hand, when I came up to him in the paddock today, and said, hey, let's go, he followed me without a halter and lead. And yesterday - he was eating grass after a trail ride with a customer (grass! best thing!), and I came up and said, hey, time to go inside. He popped his head up and followed, nice as you please. Followed me away from grass, even. As much as it was the end of the day, I think that says something about what he thinks of me.

I registered officially for the pace. A friend advised to enter the low (trailblazer) division to "focus on excellence" as she puts it. So we will.


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## egrogan

Hi @redbadger! I kind of want this horse, but since I'm in no position to be shopping figured I'd post the ad for you instead 😉 From the FB page Homes for Morgans (there are pictures and the seller's info posted there but unfortunately can't link to it per HF rules):



> “Prince” is a beautiful 6 year old grade Morgan gelding standing 15.0 hands high. Prince is smart, willing, wants to please, and wants a job. Prince is about as sweet as they come. He loves to be groomed, pampered and loved on.
> In the barn, Prince is the first to greet you at the gate in the mornings to say hello. Prince has incredible ground manners, he stands quietly in cross ties, he stands like a dream to be clipped and he stands for both the vet and farrier. He also quite enjoys being bathed. Prince is turned out in a mixed heard and gets along with everyone, he is at the very bottom of the totem pole. He doesn’t mind being stalled or being turned out 24/7.
> 
> Under Saddle, Prince is a gentleman. He has three very comfortable and uphill gaits with an easy stop and back. Prince is happy to go out or stay around the farm. This lovely boy is not spooky in the least bit, he has been and continues to be very well exposed both on and off of the property.
> 
> Prince enjoys having a job. He has a heart for jumping and he is a natural at it. He has always been honest and straightforward over fences since day one. Prince comes back together beautifully after a jump and prepares himself nicely for the next fence ahead.
> 
> Off of the farm, Prince is equally as safe and honest. He enjoys a nice trail ride and can go all day. Prince will cross mud, water, ditches, bridges, hills, he will ride alongside the road with no reaction towards horns, trucks, semis, motorcycles, tractors, bicyclists, or joggers. Prince has wonderful feet and does not require shoes. Prince is best suited for an intermediate rider.
> 
> Under Harness, Prince is simple and easy. He is great in traffic and always happy to stop and stand for lights and stop signs. He backs into shafts and moves up when asked. Mechanicsville, MD. $6500
> 
> https://youtu.be/ucHHKW_zIvw
> https://youtu.be/7e1twI-gqIQ


(PS- as often happens in sale videos, I don't think the rider is doing him any favors but I like a lot about him despite the way he's shown in the videos).


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## redbadger

Yes, she looks as if she's pulling on him, but maybe he's just full of beans as well. He's a handsome lad, but young for me (personally) and probably not a good replacement on the line for Jasper. Our Morgan here, Lavinia, is a bit taller, and stockier than this fellow (round round gal)... if someone had a horse like her ... (she can get a bit spicy tho). Thank you for looking! Funnily enough my friend and I are going to the Big E on the same weekend as they have the Morgans showing.

Jasper was good today. Gave him breakfast (the woman who feeds out the hay ... is not a morning person. The hay isn't usually all out til maybe 11am or so), felt bad because the last of this truckload of hay is pretty cruddy (tough, not rotten or anything). Told him to eat his veggies anyway. Too slick to do anything but walk, even though he was being antsy. The upshot to the rain is that Special Water is flowing. Sometimes he'll bypass it, though, if he thinks we're going to jump the logs - he seems excited to do that, as if it's something he looks forward to. 

Since I didn't get to ride Monday (was driving back from Cape Cod), I'm going to ride tomorrow. Then the Hunter Pace is on Sunday. I asked the BO what I owed him for taking Jasper all day, and he insisted I didn't have to pay. (I did say I thought it would be fair to pay, since I _am_ taking him on a weekend day, and the forecast is good).

I wish sometimes that I knew where Jasper came from - I think he was loved and cared for, was probably quite a spirited fellow when he was young (he can be pretty full of beans now). It doesn't matter to how I care for him now, but I'd like whoever loved him before to know that he is healthy, happy, sound and strong.


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## lb27312

@redbadger - I can't wait to hear about your Hunter Pace adventure! That's nice the BO didn't ask for payment.... 

Good Luck for Sunday! I keep wishing you would come on here and say HE'S MINE!! That would be awesome...


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## redbadger

Maybe he's happy that I pay my fees and costs on time at all! (He's very nice, and some people take advantage of that.)  I assumed I would, because I'm taking him for an entire working day and, of course, gas for the truck. But it is very kind of him to let me use him for the day.

If anyone asks me what I want for a graduation present (December! One more class!) they all ought to know what the answer is.


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## redbadger

I've had a very difficult couple of days (yesterday was a mental health day) so I'm just now getting around to posting about the Pace!

Jasper was very alert in the morning. He knew something was up. He definitely knew something was up when we got to the venue. I was so nervous! I'm glad my trainer came with us. Jasper absolutely knew what to do - when we were giving our time card to the start timer, he was all ready to go. Why are we stopping? He said. There is a trail right there. I know what to do! Let's go! 

I was so nervous I forgot my helmet because I was wearing my hat.

It was shorter than my trainer thought it would be - just six and a half miles - so we were WELL over time and didn't place. It's ok. It was only our first time. Hopefully we can do another one next year - maybe even in the Spring! (Hah). 

Anyway. The course was beautiful - about half was wide, flat, straight rail-trail with a footing of sand/crushed limestone. A quarter was pleasant, flat, in the woods. The other quarter was - not great. Lots of up and down with medium-to-large sized stones embedded in the trail, like a streambed, and slick from recent wet weather. The sort of footing you worry your horse will catch a foot in (heck, I'd worry about _me_ catching a foot in it). But the flat parts were gorgeous - the weather wasn't too hot, and there was a nice breeze, low humidity. Lots of birch trees starting to turn yellow. The rail-trail part runs through a wetland, and actually extends well past the state forest in both directions. The trail in Massachusetts is 22 miles total, and connects to another trail in Connecticut that, in two sections, covers another 46 miles! This is the part where most of the jumps were. 

These were Real Jumps, not just logs lying on the forest floor. So I was nervous and the first two I went at, Jasper knew it, so he swung wide. He said, "nah, you're not really serious about this". Then we went for a third and we did it! I was so happy. We did five, together. Probably the five smallest ones, but that's not the point. I think he loved it - he was up and alert and didn't want to slow down once we got over the first one. That's my Jas - Trot is the Ideal Speed! Early on, I had a little trouble getting him to canter the first time, which got funny because Steele was cantering away, and Jasper was keeping pace with him and even getting away from him at a trot. Big ol' long-legged man. 

Steele was amped to see if there might be any mares he could add to his herd (good luck buddy). Jasper was busy tackling the course. Man with a plan, that one. He got some carrots and lots of bigeloil afterward. I think we did well - I was afraid he'd try to swing home, or refuse and not trust me, but we did it. (and I hope to do it again sometime. Maybe ... if he's ever mine.) 

He had a day off on Monday (he deserved it), and today he went to the Cape (without me). I'm seeing him tomorrow, though. It'll be good for me. I had sort of a mental breakdown enroute to work yesterday and took the day off and didn't quite trust myself to drive all the way out to see him, or I would've. Doing better now. 

Hopefully we get to go to the cape together sometime. When the tide is out, we can run on the sandbars. If I'd known how short the course was (and needed to trim the time), we'd have run some more on the long straightaways.


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## ACinATX

Did you take the jumps in a western saddle? If so, was it uncomfortable?


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## redbadger

ACinATX said:


> Did you take the jumps in a western saddle? If so, was it uncomfortable?


Yep! And no, not to me anyway. However, I have nothing to compare it to - this is the only saddle he's got. I might feel differently if I'd ridden in an English saddle in the non-distant past.


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## redbadger

A lot has being going on. Work is difficult. I had to take a mental health day a couple of weeks ago. I've been mildly ill off and on, and caught a cold from my dad. The cough got so bad I've gone to the urgent care, and gotten some prescription cough meds. They also think I may have lyme disease (LOVELY) and have put in tests for that and other tick borne illnesses. 

That said: I did go off camping on Cape Cod for four days and feel WAY better about life in general now. Also, Jasper makes me happy.

Last I saw him was last week on Monday, when it was raining, and I didn't ride. So I really hadn't ridden for two weeks. I think he missed me. I got to the barn today and he was waiting at the gate (granted, it's breakfast time, and he is clearly STARVING, ERIK). I was worried, since I hadn't ridden in two weeks, that all our mojo from the hunter pace would have dwindled, but we had a perfectly lovely ride. Since I am not feeling great, I decided we would just walk. And it was a beautiful morning - sunny and not too hot, with that nice gentle breeze that feels like a soft, soft blanket. The colors are definitely turning now, and the leaves are falling from the smaller trees. He was alert and responsive, though he seemed concerned that I was not singing. He had some Special Water. 

The co-op farm has another family visiting, with two young kids (maybe 6 - 8 ish) and they were excited to see us pass, so on the way back, I led him up toward their yard and asked if they wanted to say hello. He got to eat grass, and they thought he was pretty grand. My trainer said they're coming over to the barn tomorrow for pony rides and a trail ride, so I guess they got a little preview today. The kids were a little shy, but he's a big fellow, and it's pretty brave for a small fry to come up and pet him. (have I mentioned how much I miss hanging out with kids who are not my patients?)

He was put out that he didn't get to have MORE GRAIN after our ride (only hay! horrendous! eat your veggies, Jasper.) When I turned him back out, and stood by to watch him (how can I not? He's wonderful) he came back over to nudge me like he was asking if I was alright. Or saying he'd missed me.


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## walkinthewalk

Gosh I hope you don’t have Lymes but I’m glad you are otherwise on the mend and feeling better

Jasper is in tune to you, my thought is he was nudging you to ask how you are.

Joker has different nudges to ask different things. It seems that he senses when I am feeling off as he will insist on a few extra sniffs of my face on those mornings. He was really insistent and confused the day I had oral surgery. I’m guessing he could smell the anesthetic and as confused/upset by it.

Jasper wants to know you’re ok


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## redbadger

I hope not either, but it would explain some things! Emotionally I feel a lot better after my nature time (my dad was home with the dogs, so it was just me). Physically, eh ... 

Usually, after I turn him out, he has some water at the tub and then wanders off to go do fun things like eat hay, claim the shelter, stand next to Romeo, and roll in filth. But this time he had his drink and then turned around to lean over and nudge me. So he was, I think, checking to see if I was alright. I'm sure he can smell when I'm sick, and probably if I'm taking a different medication or using my inhaler. After all, we metabolize things we ingest and excrete the byproducts in various ways - so Joker can smell your anesthetic, probably even for several days afterward - and Jasper can smell my albuterol and the cough suppressant.


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## walkinthewalk

redbadger said:


> he was, I think, checking to see if I was alright. I'm sure he can smell when I'm sick, and probably if I'm taking a different medication or using my inhaler. After all, we metabolize things we ingest and excrete the byproducts in various ways - so Joker can smell your anesthetic, probably even for several days afterward - and Jasper can smell my albuterol and the cough suppressant.


I think it’s great that you, being in a boarding situation, Jasper isn’t even yours legally, and not seeing him every day, are so in tune to him and he to you.

Testimony to what many horse owners are missing by not paying attention to the horse when it “speaks”

A lot of people who strive so hard for “connection” miss the boat for a lack of understanding how that works and that humans cannot force it.


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## egrogan

Hope you get some answers on the Lyme-and that it comes back negative 🤞🤞🤞


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## redbadger

walkinthewalk said:


> I think it’s great that you, being in a boarding situation, Jasper isn’t even yours legally, and not seeing him every day, are so in tune to him and he to you.
> 
> Testimony to what many horse owners are missing by not paying attention to the horse when it “speaks”
> 
> A lot of people who strive so hard for “connection” miss the boat for a lack of understanding how that works and that humans cannot force it.


Thank you.  It bewilders me when people don't "listen" to their horses. I mean - he has better senses of hearing and smell, and he has more feet on the ground than I do. I can't go riding without a horse, and he's not allowed to go out without a rider (lol). Today, he knew the little girls were there before I saw them - and he told me, with an ear, that something different was there. What if it wasn't a couple of kids, but something dangerous, and I didn't listen? Worse, what if he was hurting and trying to tell me, and I didn't listen? What kind of human would I be - the one with color vision and depth perception, a cell phone, and access to vet care - if I didn't listen to my horse, my buddy? I'm glad he talks to me. I've heard that the ditzy woman, who fusses so over her horse on the ground, rides him to exhaustion (and lameness) on the trail. She used to do the same when she was leasing Lavinia. It does take time, for sure, and thoughtfulness, and care. It can be challenging. But now we're getting into this really cool groove together. Like when I come up to him in the field and he follows me to the gate without haltering, or when we go explore a different path or take a new route and he doesn't fuss about it.


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## redbadger

Funny we were talking about listening today - Jasper and I went out this morning, and when we got out to the short hill past the co-op farm, he put his ears up and whinnied. He only does this when he thinks (or knows) someone else, on a horse, is out in the woods. He's done it if people are coming behind us, or if another ride is ahead in the woods. But I knew no one from our barn was out, so I said huh, that's weird, better keep my eyes peeled because there might be a strange horse around. We didn't see anybody else, but he let me know that someone might be there, and I should be aware of it. 

Fun things: because Jasper has taken to following me through the paddock to the gate without a halter (note: I halter him before I open the gate, because things can happen), I decided to try something out. When he came back from a trail ride this afternoon, I kept my hand close to his reins, but not on them, and let him follow me down the aisle to a stall, which he ... mostly did, except he wanted to go into a different stall than the one I'd opted for. Later in the evening, I was going to turn him out, so I took him out to this space that's between the barn and a bunch of different paddocks and the outside stalls. You can put a 2x4 across the door to the barn, and basically enclose it. The paddocks open onto the space, and you can let horses into the outside stalls that way. So I led him around on a very loose lead rope for a bit, and he followed. I asked my trainer to put the 2x4 up, and took the lead rope off at the far end of the space, and said ok, follow me. And he did! About six feet before his gate he got kinda distracted by the grass but didn't actually go eat, but he did follow me without a lead - just about thirty feet or so. So that was really neat.


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## walkinthewalk

Moments like what you describe are joyful lump-in-the-throat moments.

Back when there were several horse forums and I belonged to all of them (lollol), I participated in a couple of serious conversations regarding how horses respond to people who think in pictures vs. those who think in abstract.

The general consensus was people who think in pictures not only achieve positive training results faster with a horse but the horse seems to open up and want to communicate with them faster than they would someone who thinks in abstract.

I would be surprised if you say you think in abstract and probably would even say you’re wrong about your own thoughts if you do say that, lol.

I believe it is difficult for Jasper to communicate because he is in such a commercial environment and his past, whatever it is, also holds him back. I could be way off the mark but I believe he wants to communicate with you, now that he trusts you - a trust that has been a long time coming because he just wasn’t sure.

Keep working with Jasper and communicating in whatever manner he responds to — and lets hope Jasper can be yours soon


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## redbadger

I am an artist, so more or less, yes, I do think in pictures. It can be difficult for me, sometimes, to express a concept or thought process because I have to translate a picture, a sensation, etc, into practical words. I also spend a lot of time practicing other languages, and thinking in pictures is helpful for adapting from one set of linguistic rules to another. Russian, for example, is very different (structurally) from English, so you basically have to stop trying to map it onto English and look at it from its own fresh perspective. Listening to Jasper is like this. He is not a human, and doesn't think or perceive the world like I do. His senses and wiring are different, so like when I practice Russian, I have to see from his perspective in order to hear him. His response to a discarded sofa or a UPS truck seem silly and outsized for a person, but they make perfect sense from the horse perspective. I think when he follows me, or puts his ears up to say there's danger, or pauses, or nudges me, he's saying hey, you, Not Horse, you are Sometimes Horse, a herdmate or companion. In ASL (American Sign Language) there is a sign that is written in English as Think-Hearing. What it expresses is that the person who is Think-Hearing sees everything from a hearing perspective, ignoring or even putting down the Deaf perspective. I think that there are people who, around horses, are Think-Human. 

The more we hang around, the easier it is to "hear" him, but also, the more he talks to me.


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## redbadger

So the barn I ride at offers a trail ride on Cape Cod. It's about 3 hours away on a long stretch of beach, requires trailering the horses, and is longer and more expensive than an "ordinary" trail ride. For various reasons, I've never yet had a chance to go. BUT! It turns out, next Thursday (the 28th), there is a spot! I can go! (With Jasper, obviously). And low tide - with its big, flat sandbars - is at the perfect time (noonish). I'm so excited! He's freshly shod as of Monday and antsy-pants with the cooler, bright weather. Beach ride! I'm vibrating.


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## knightrider

I'm going beach riding on Nov. 2 for 4 days! I'm vibrating too! Yay for us!!!


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## ACinATX

Take pictures! Both of you!


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## walkinthewalk

Yes! At least a few pictures from both of you or you’re both grounded, lol😳 

Both if you have the most wonderful time and be safe!!👍👍


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## gottatrot

Happy beaches to both of you! Sounds exciting! Which area of the coast will you be near @knightrider? I've been to Cape Cod (beautiful) and areas of the Florida coast so I like to imagine and live vicariously.


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## knightrider

@gottatrot , I will be in St. Augustine. Here are some pictures from past rides to get @redbadger even more excited.































Different horses, different trips. Horse Forum friends!


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## walkinthewalk

Shoot - I wanna go!🐎


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## gottatrot

knightrider said:


> @gottatrot , I will be in St. Augustine.


Beautiful pictures! I think the closest beach we were on was at Vero Beach, so I'll imagine that sand and surf when I think of you riding there.


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## pendleton

QtrBel said:


> I think you are over thinking things. You have the basics down, you enjoy the trails, the mental therapy a horse provides is being handed to you. No reason to spend time in the ring for anything but the lessons and have a goal that makes the lessons something the horse will enjoy as well. Plenty of games that build skills. Not endless circles. If you feel safe and your surgery has healed then take what is offered and enjoy yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> Now time to see pics of you on Jasper.


i agree


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## redbadger

@knightrider Might be a bit warmer down there than up here. Beautiful. I love the ocean. I am sure my trainer will do her best to take photos - Jasper doesn't like stopping, as you could tell from the Hunter Pace photos, but she'll try. 

In the meantime, we achieved another great success! For some time, due to construction (a bunch of property was cleared for a large solar farm) and other things, the trails across the road from the barn have been inaccessible. However, National Grid is doing work on the high tension wires in both directions and figured it was easiest to simply clear brush and build their own road up the lines. Now there is a nice, wide service road which is crushed limestone part of the way and a cleared, flattened dirt track about 10 feet wide the rest of the way. The only caveat is that it's fairly steep. 

The first big thing is just to get across the road. I don't think anyone's asked him to go across the road in as long as I've been leasing him. Of course, he's been up there before, it's just been a while. And it's just the two of us, no one else. He was ... a little confused, I'll grant, and alert, because we were doing A Different Thing, but we crossed safely (it's a two-lane road, but a long straight stretch where folks well exceed the posted limit), passed the National Grid lot and got up onto the small back road and then on up the power lines. He balked a bit at the gate across the power line trail - too tall to get over, and no clear obvious path to either side - but found his way. It took us a while to find a way to get into the trees, just about to the peak of the hill. If we keep going and follow the lines, we theoretically can walk over the hill to the barn where my trainer's horse lives. 

It was a relatively short ride (just under 3 miles) and he was fussy particularly after I walked him into some deep leaves and astonishingly deep mud (HOW DID IT GET SO DEEP), and also annoyed that we did not Do Running around a large cornfield (admittedly the "no trespassing" signs on the far side actually did make me want to leave pretty quickly. sorry! we're lost!). On the whole, however, the ride was a great success. Things are very overgrown and the fallen leaves have mulched about knee deep, but there's still some clear paths and while it is Not A Winter Trail, we had some fun exploring. He got some apple and some grass after.

Of course then I accidentally let him into the wrong gate (Austin and Houston were crowding the other gate, and force of habit) where the Barn Owner had half the paddocks open to do some fence work and clearing of brush, so he ended up in BO's yard eating grass after having Tons Of Fun trotting and running away from the humans. No one told him he is 26. I can't stay mad at him; he was great today, trusting me to keep us safe, and going on an adventure. We'll do it again before the ice comes.


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## walkinthewalk

Now that was some trail riding and real test for both of you - singularly and as a team

It sounds like the two of you did an awesome job of negotiating new and a bit rough terrain🥇🏆🥇🏆

My only word of caution is to be very careful in all of those leaves. When they damp or wet, they are slicker than snot. 

That’s how @rambo99 has ended up nursing a tendon issue on her horse, who needs ridden every day. All he did was slide out from under himself in a layer of wet leaves.

Healing tendon issues takes forever and is labor intensive, so be careful While you’re exploring — those maintenance roads sound like fun


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## redbadger

It was deceptive, it just looked like a single layer over dirt, but it felt like it was about 3 years worth of dead leaves all mulched together - not so much slick as just like sinking into a pile, very soft. Wasn't sure where the dirt went - the actual ground on top of the hill is pretty hard. The mud was worrying - it looked like shallow puddles, but it was much deeper. I thought he might scrape himself or get caught or stumble. He was alright when I looked him over back home. Alright enough to run around the paddock like a knucklehead . We'll keep an eye out if/when we go back up and try to find some solid ground.


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## redbadger

Well, we had a mondo storm yesterday - all day. A nor'easter, just not cold enough to be snow (thank goodness - 4-6" of rain translates to a LOT of snow). Southeastern Massachusetts and Cape Cod got the worst of it. Unfortunately, due to power outages and storm damage, and that the customer is, uh, stuck in Boston apparently (yeek), the ride has to be postponed.  I understand, but I am sad about it. 

Tomorrow is one of my regular days anyway, though it may be very wet indeed (after working in repeated downpours and winds yesterday), so at least I'll go and see Jasper. 

Work got so desperate they gave everyone a not-insignificant raise (as in, by dollars and not cents) and now I'm getting travel compensation (since my commute mileage has roughly tripled), so. My trainer recommended a vitamin E supplement (another person at her barn tried it with her horses, who didn't like it) that she's seen improvement in her horse (who has some chronic problems from EPM and an old injury). I might also look for a new saddle blanket for him at the Equine Affaire later in November.


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## walkinthewalk

I am glad to hear all,of you are ok. I thought about you and @egrogan when the Weather Channel started talking about the N’Easter that was going up the coast😨. 

I know the West Coast was hit with a Bomb Cyclone but I thought I heard your storm also categorized as one — or ”there I go thinking again” and just thought I heard them say that, lollol

I am so sorry your ride was postponed but “postponed” is a more hopeful word than “cancelled”, so there’s still hope 

Congratulations on getting a raise that you can actually see in your wallet - much deserved👍👍.


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## redbadger

It was much worse in the east and south. We did get moderate winds and heavy rains where I was working, and of course EVERYONE had to be transferred out AFTER it got worse ... can't just hold the patients one more night ... alas. And yes, apparently bombogenesis did occur. I was most unhappy about driving to work - it's an hour away, and it's still dark at 6am, much more so with the clouds. And then it poured down rain about halfway there and it was awful. We'll see how the rest of the season shapes up. 

I was already making a lot more than state or federal minimum wage, but as we've all talked about here, cost of living is very different. I am fortunate to live with my dad and be able to bank quite a bit of savings while otherwise mostly paying my own costs for the car, my books (my dad has paid for tuition), equipment, Jasper of course.

Postponed is good - the customers (a woman and her mom) really want to go, just beach rides have a limited schedule - just weekdays, and limited to the days my instructor is not at her other job. And as long as it's not -30 on the beach I'm willing to layer up and enjoy it. :lol:


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## egrogan

We got lucky with this storm and didn’t really have anything out of the ordinary. We had 48 hours of rain, but not several inches of it, thank goodness! Fairly high winds yesterday, but no one blew away 

Glad you’ll still get to do the beach ride @redbadger!


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## ACinATX

Congrats on the raise!!!


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## redbadger

We didn't go out on the trails today, because I figured they'd just be super muddy and slippery and leafy. Not a great time to be tromping through deep mud for an hour. Instead, I rode him around the yard bareback for a little bit, with a brief stretch of trotting. After that, I took him into the round pen (just to have a secure space where he couldn't run off and cause mischief) and we played "follow me". First to clarify: "follow me" is just for fun, not looking to replace the halter and lead. 

In "follow me", I lead Jasper around on the lead like usual, encouraging him to "follow me". Now and then we stop ("ho") and turn around. I loosen the lead rope until I'm basically just holding the end, still praising him for following me around, and stopping when I do/say so. At that point, I took the rope off (he still has a halter on). As interested as he was in the (Very, very dead) grass, he still followed, and stopped when I said so! Excellent work on his part. He would walk along with me, at my elbow, and would come forward when I faced him and asked (though he was hesitant). No trying backing or turning without the lead at this point - sticking with nice simple "go" and "stop". :lol: I would hesitate to even call this anything like liberty training, because it's really just fun bonding time and play and we're not looking to do anything fancy or go any faster than a nice casual walk. I think it engages him and he's curious what we're up to, otherwise I suspect he'd tell me to (quite literally) pound sand. He is an old man with opinions. (we did not do this for a long time, and he got grass after).


----------



## redbadger

While I am struggling to recuperate from work each week, Jasper remains a bright spot. It is clear and crisp right now - even at 10:30 in the morning, there was still frost in the shady spots. Jasper was bright-eyed and happy to see me and energetic, so, a bit disappointed we did not do Running. It's still muddy in many places, and the creek is high. Some places were safe for running, but I wasn't feeling up to it, and sometimes, I get to use the brain cell. 

When we got back, and he got undressed (Thursday is the best of days, because there are no other rides on Thursday, and we have all the time to ourselves, no need to leave him tacked), we played Follow Me in the round pen. We're getting better at it. Not perfect or exceptional, but better. Grass is still Green and Very Interesting. But we walked, we stopped, we changed direction. We turned in some smaller circles in both directions. We tried to figure out backwards. He follows me pretty reliably (aside from Grass, Can I Have It?), right about at my elbow. As I said on the Friday Night thread, when I stop, sometimes he puts his head quite gently over my shoulder or toward my arm. Not pushy - he just waits there. Then when I start walking, he comes along. I'm going to see if tomorrow there's some time when my trainer can watch us.


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## knightrider

Just got home from my beach camping trip and couldn't wait to check in and see how yours went. I am so sorry it was postponed . . . but I'll have something to look forward to . . . seeing the pictures when you do get to go.

@4horses took piles and piles of pictures, so when she sends them, I'll put a few up on your journal so we can smile together about the fun I had and the fun you are going to have.

Unfortunately @LoriF came off her young mare Novia when she exploded into bucking and broke her rib. This is a good journal to post on because I have a burning question: why do some broken ribs hurt quite a lot, but the victim is still relatively functional while other times, when the same person breaks a rib, they cannot even lift their leg.

I have broken ribs 3 times in my life. My first two experiences were the latter. I had to psych myself for twenty minutes just to find the courage to turn over in bed, it hurt so bad. The third time, I had two cracked ribs and two broken ribs (you would think that would be worse than 4 cracked ribs), and it really really hurt, but I could still shop, cook, and do many things I never could have done the first two incidents.

LoriF broke a rib a few years back when we were swimming our horses. We were bareback, wet, and her horse suddenly did a big spook. She came off. Although I begged her to get checked out at the ER, she thought she was OK, loaded her horse in her trailer, and DROVE HOME. Later, it hurt so bad, she did get it checked out and it was broken. That was then. But this time, she could hardly get off the ground. At the hospital, the pain was so bad, she vomited.

Why do some broken ribs completely incapacitate people and others are somewhat still slightly functional? I've always scorned novels where the hero breaks a rib and then scales a wall or fights someone. I couldn't even bend enough to get into a car!

Aside from @LoriF's sad experience, our beach trip was fantastic. I've never gotten Windy to do such smooth running walk. I was thinking of @walkinthewalk , because I would call it "champagne running walk". And I got an amazing canter a couple of times. I think Windy liked the wide open beach.

We rode two days on the beach and two days in the most beautiful camping place I have ever seen. One old picture from other years to pique your interest.


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## knightrider

walkinthewalk said:


> Yes! At least a few pictures from both of you or you’re both grounded, lol😳


Your wish is my command. Here are some pictures from our 5 days at the beach.


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## walkinthewalk

What beautiful photos! And what.a happy looking bunch of folks!👍😎👍😎

Yepper - I am envious😍


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## gottatrot

Looks like fun!!


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## knightrider

@gottatrot , do you know why some broken ribs are completely incapacitating and other ones are just extremely painful? Is it the area where you break the rib?


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## gottatrot

I also asked my very smart coworker and we think it is based on what area is broken. More specifically, the area involved will determine if more nerves are affected.

My coworker pointed out that we put chest tubes in from below a rib because more nerves are along the top of a rib. 

Probably a fracture involving the top part of a rib near the area where more nerves are would be more incapacitating.

Different areas of ribs also will have more or less movement with respiration, making them more painful.


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## redbadger

My trainer watched us play "follow me" on Monday, and gave me some good advice. She said to try and get his feet moving more, distract him from the grass so he pays firmer attention to me. She said to give actually lunging him a try to see how he reacted. Figured it can't hurt - he's surely been lunged before, and just keep it short not to strain his big old man body. 

Well, turns out, when he sees the lunge whip - just sees me holding it, not even doing anything with it - he freezes in place. Gets in a very submissive posture, won't come near me at all. So that ... is tabled for the moment. Instead we walked around on the lead rope, walking and stopping, turning, walking, backing up, walking more, and then off the lead for a while. Much less distracted by grass. Except when he was happily following me to the gate I picked up the lunge whip to bring it inside with us and he stopped and backed off and wouldn't come near me again. Ok, fine. Obviously he knows what it is. And he'll move for me without it, so it's not being stubborn about moving. There is very little that he's concerned about (I hesitate to say afraid of - this is one of the bravest horses in the lot) and virtually never without a sound reason. We'll try another route and work on explaining that the lunge whip is just a regular ol' thing, no reason to be worried. 

On the trail (before follow me time), a FedEx truck came up behind us, we saw a jogger, _and_ we saw a mom and two tweenage kids, so the world is just full of things today. Beautiful weather, and we had some nice running now that it's been dry for a longer stretch. Monday, we went down by the lake for the first time in a while. There's a big tree that was uprooted - maybe a couple of years ago now - in a storm and leans a little bit more it seems every day. Now it is so low that to get under it I have to be plastered on Jasper's neck. There's a way around it, sort of, but the way is very muddy. 

Work is so difficult, it seems to take me two days at least just to recuperate. I simply haven't felt up to tackling the other side of the street again. I'm told that I'll get help at night soon. I can only hope. At least this week I feel capable of interacting with other people, and not just Jasper. (Jasper is a good companion. He is quiet, and he is brave.)


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## redbadger

We've been working, off and on - I said "working" very loosely - with teaching Jasper that the lunge whip is not scary. The thing is, I suppose, he doesn't need to know it, because it's not a necessary part of his life - he gets plenty of exercise being a hack line horse and with me, and playing "follow me" is just for fun and doesn't need a stick. But it just bothers me deeply that someone, at some point in his life, taught him that the lunge whip is for hurting (in particular, hurting his face/head). Today I leaned it very casually up against the outside of the stall, just about a foot of it peeking over the edge, at one end. Not doing anything. Just there. He went to the other side of the stall - even when I wasn't touching it, even when I came in to untack him and give him brushing. Went to the other side and bent his head away from where it was, even.

It's sort of an academic question - that is, what matters is what happens now, and for the rest of his life. He likes me to give his face a good brush (all that itchy loose hair) and rests his head on my shoulder now and then (looking for treats most likely), which he doesn't do for just about anyone else (he'll take a carrot and dart back to eat it). He takes the bit keenly and is easily bridled. He lets me wipe off his eye boogers. He is much loved.


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## walkinthewalk

1. I doubt Jasper will ever get over the lunge whip issue — whatever that is. When my beloved Duke was young, I had to board a few years. At one facility, I happened to walk in the barn early one Saturday morning just in time to see the punk kid who fed and cleaned stalls, drive Duke to the back corner of his stall and force him to stand there, while the feed was dumped into his feed pan.

It was uncalled for as Duke was a gentle, non-confrontational horse. I got the kid fired - there’s more to that story but it’s not relevant😨

Duke lived to 27 and he never forgot that incident. If DH even threw up his hand to adjust his hat while walking past Duke’s stall, Duke would run to the back of his stall. I put a stop to hat adjusting and hand flailing in front of Duke, even though DH’s action was innocent.

2. I highly doubt Jasper puts his head on your shoulder for treats Joker does that to me a lot and he will also often put his nose to my face — these are their way of showing showing affection🥰

The two of you have become each other’s salvation😇


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## redbadger

I ask Jasper for "good manners" when I feed him (as in, "Jasper, show me good manners") so he holds off and doesn't shove his face directly into the bucket while I try and pour it into the bin.

No, probably not - he's an old man. Whatever happened was a long, long time ago for him. There's really only been a hand of things he's ever been really scared of, and his fears have been perfectly reasonable (was the sofa a monster? No. Was it reasonable for him to think it was and be really careful about going near it? Totally valid concern, my guy, let's keep an eye on it, but I'm pretty sure it's just a sofa and can't eat us). It's also very evident, from his behavior, his health and soundness, and his willingness (if you are good to him and ask right) to power through just about anything, that he was very much cared for for the bulk of his life before he came to auction. Someone got very, very lucky when he was foaled. I know I did, much after the fact. 

I was remembering to my trainer about how I cantered the first time (she was with me) - Jasper decided (I asked for "faster" which was "a trot" in my mind. Jasper said "FASTER? OK."). It was not a decision I would've made by myself. I was still too nervous. But Jasper decided, and we got through it, and I realized it really wasn't so bad, and we could maybe do that again sometime. And he said hey, alright, this guy wants to run with me, let's do it. When I was first leasing him, I had to keep a solid 3/4 of my attention on him. Now, it's like 1/4, because we listen better to each other. I don't worry so much about him making crotchety old man decisions, and he doesn't worry (so much) about me making dubious choices of my own.


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## redbadger

Haven't been on this thread in a while, given I haven't ridden or done real ground work with Jasper in a while. Mostly it's been going out to feed/brush/blanket as needed, with my hand as it is. He's thankfully really good about following me through the field to the gate. 

So: right now, due to freeze/thaw cycles, the field has some honking big patches of ice. As of today, they have a very thin dusting of snow on them, making them even harder to see. I was sent out to go find Blue, an aged OTTB that boards there. He likes to hide at the far end of the field, in part because his feet are in horrendous shape (ongoing issue involving his owner) and walking all over the ruts and ice is difficult. I go out and Jasper follows me around as he does, and I said, hey, Jas, can you help me find Blue? It was getting dark and hard for humans to see, and I swear this: where I walked, he would only follow at my hip if it was safe. I was heading one way toward Blue, and Jasper stopped. He stopped, and started looking another way, to the other side of a snowy patch. He was right: the way he was looking was the safe way, and it was too icy where I'd been going. Good man, he is. Real good.


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## egrogan

Here’s one for your BO, @redbadger!


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## walkinthewalk

GREAT JOB @egrogan !!😍😍

@redbadger 📞them!


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## redbadger

I've seen ads from these folks on CL before (I recognize that background) - they seem to be in VT. Have you had any interactions with them? I think I recall asking them about one of their horses and he was in the 8-9K range.

A place in Maine still has a "brabant" gelding, 16.2 and 20 years old, handsome, moves rather smoothly for a stocky horse. I'm wondering what's up, as they've had him for a month+. Maybe folks are just scared off by the age. I hadn't been able to go anywhere, with the hand, and other things.


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## egrogan

@redbadger, you're right they're in Vermont. I don't know them personally, but they seem to be dealers based on their posts. Some dealers here have a pretty good reputation (Pond Hill Ranch is the one I know the best; I've ridden some of their horses and have had friends buy there), but I don't know about this one specifically. I think they tend to do the whole "buy ranch horses, ship them east, flip 'em." Maybe a good excuse for a road trip when you're up for that?


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## redbadger

Great joy! After nearly 2 months (last rode on December 15th) I finally got astride Jasper again. I came out after work and there was just enough daylight to bring him in, bridle him, and ride him bareback up and down the drive for ten minutes or so. I was so nervous getting up on the block, but just as soon as I got on, it was like I'd never stopped. It took a minute for my heartrate to go down, for sure, but I felt perfectly secure. 

He was a bit of a butthead about putting the bridle on but no seriously so. Enough to get an elbow and a reminder, but he settled. Stood nicely to be mounted. Doesn't super like walking around the yard (work! it's winter! appalling, human!) but he never does, really. It's go out or not go out. 

Anyway. I missed it so much. I would've stayed past dark, but I had rehearsal.


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## redbadger

Draft cross gelding - farm & garden - by owner - sale


Perfect trail horse. 10 year old 15.2 hand quarter horse draft cross gelding. Super quiet. We’ve had him out in the ice and snow with no issues at all. Good around cars and trucks. Goes out alone or...



hudsonvalley.craigslist.org





Little short according to the "replace Jasper on the line" criteria, but I think he's a handsome shape. Would like to see him move, but that involves contacting the seller.


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## ACinATX

Wow he's a cutie. Just looking at him, though, to me (and I'm no expert) I would have thought he was less than 15hh.

Do people not list prices any more


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## egrogan

redbadger said:


> Draft cross gelding - farm & garden - by owner - sale
> 
> 
> Perfect trail horse. 10 year old 15.2 hand quarter horse draft cross gelding. Super quiet. We’ve had him out in the ice and snow with no issues at all. Good around cars and trucks. Goes out alone or...
> 
> 
> 
> hudsonvalley.craigslist.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Little short according to the "replace Jasper on the line" criteria, but I think he's a handsome shape. Would like to see him move, but that involves contacting the seller.


He's cute! Nothing wrong with flirting...


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## redbadger

ACinATX said:


> Wow he's a cutie. Just looking at him, though, to me (and I'm no expert) I would have thought he was less than 15hh.
> 
> Do people not list prices any more


My impression is that people often/sometimes don't list prices in order to force you to ask. If I look at an ad and I know it's well out of my price range, I'm not going to make contact. But if I don't know, I might contact the seller and find out, if I like the item (horse, furniture, tchotchkes) enough. 

I think it's hard to tell because he's got nothing around him for reference, but yeah, he doesn't quite look like he's big. I think he looks kind of young, which is unusual - I feel like I see more ads where the horse clearly looks older than they're billing it.


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## redbadger

Also, I have no idea what happened here. But, I brought Jasper in, grooming him, gave him dinner, usual such things, and he was being his usual self (if not perhaps a bit more interested in scritching and brushing than usual). No one else was there, so I didn't want to take him out in case something happened and no one knew where we were, so we were just chilling. I decided to work on the lunge whip again. Well I don't know maybe it was the carrots in my pocket (he hadn't seen them, they came from the office in my pocket), but he didn't back off and plaster himself against the far side of the stall when he saw the whip this time - even before the carrots. He stayed. He would take a lil carrot while it was next to me, and while I was holding it. He was a little tense about it, but not scared like he was. We only did a little bit with it, but it was such a drastic change I don't know what brought it on. We'll see if it's the same on Wednesday.


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## QtrBel

redbadger said:


> Little short according to the "replace Jasper on the line" criteria, but I think he's a handsome shape. Would like to see him move, but that involves contacting the seller


I really dislike seeing the implication that height determines carrying capacity or that longer legs need a taller horse when that is so far from true. 15.2 is a good solid horse. A cross likely to take up any length of leg and being on the shorter side for a draft if built stout and with a short back, strong coupling most likely the better option.

He's built well and would likely be a great addition to their program. Feet need attention.


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## redbadger

QtrBel said:


> I really dislike seeing the implication that height determines carrying capacity or that longer legs need a taller horse when that is so far from true. 15.2 is a good solid horse. A cross likely to take up any length of leg and being on the shorter side for a draft if built stout and with a short back, strong coupling most likely the better option.
> 
> He's built well and would likely be a great addition to their program. Feet need attention.
> View attachment 1125404
> View attachment 1125405


 I agree, but it also has to pass the BO's opinions, and the public's perception. At 15.2 he's a bit taller than Romeo, who is also a sturdy and powerful built horse we could put bigger people on (Romeo does need to gain weight, which is a separate issue). Our farrier is great, too. 

Unfortunately it depends also on how much the guy's asking for this fuzz.


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## QtrBel

Years ago a friend borrowed one of my draft mares for adult riders that needed something stout. Kept her for the summer. Not one adult would get on her as they only thought they wanted and needed something that big to ride until they were handed the lead rope and asked to go saddle her up. The kids though had a blast with her.


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## redbadger

QtrBel said:


> Years ago a friend borrowed one of my draft mares for adult riders that needed something stout. Kept her for the summer. Not one adult would get on her as they only thought they wanted and needed something that big to ride until they were handed the lead rope and asked to go saddle her up. The kids though had a blast with her.


I feel like so often I see a picture of a horse and I'm like wow that's the perfect shape - and then it turns out to be like a 12.2hh pony. Which is ... a little too short. "Excuse me, do you have one of these in a larger size?" 

Jasper is going well. We've had some chats about who holds the brain cell. He's lost a bit of weight being in regular work now the weather's nicer, but he's on senior feed with that now, and will stand to build some muscle. He's generally a healthy guy. He does well on the vitamin E (Health-E) supplement - I really think it helps the arthritis, as he's less grumpy about his back legs when he's on it.

As of this week, he's being tried in a different saddle. Nothing in the barn fits him really, really well, but he was apparently getting very grumpy wearing his old one after public rides. This one is - I think it might be this one: #08516: 16", 17" Double T Trail style saddle - TexanSaddles.com though I haven't looked too closely at it. The barn owner bought a couple of them for cheap from one of the consignment places nearby. He seems to do alright in it - my trainer says he's less grumpy after the public days. It's a little longer than the old one, he's a relatively short-backed guy for being so tall. Of course, the other thing is that _I_ have to get used to riding in it, too, and the seat's a big larger and shaped differently, and the stirrups are a little different. (I don't really use them 90% of the time, but they're nice to have available). I think it's bothering my leg a bit to ride in it (ok maybe a lot) but that's a me problem. More stretching. (there is really only so far I can drop the stirrups simply because eventually, I run out of inseam). 

I do need to get across the road again sometime. The powerline hill is a righteous beast, but word around is that there's been some agreements to cut a new trail close by where the old (and less ... uh ... stressful) trail was, which was blocked off when a company bought the land and built a large solar farm. I am told up and back in the woods are some good fields for running, which would be nice.


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## knightrider

Every time you post, I hope that there will be something about your postponed beach ride. I have not forgotten how excited you were to be able to go. And I really want that for you. Any progress on the beach ride?

Also, if the saddle doesn't fit you, you probably will never really like it. It is quite difficult to find a saddle that fits both you and your horse (ask me how I know). I've had to sell a few saddles that seemed to fit my horse right well but left me in misery. We both have to have fun for it to be a "go."


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## redbadger

Soon! I hope. There's a big chunk of the summer that we can't because the plovers will be nesting, but my trainer is aware that I want to go. 

I mean - I can't say the other one fits me quite perfectly either. My leg often hurts more when I use stirrups more than not, which I had been doing with this one because I'm not used to it. The stirrups themselves are metal with rubber treads and make a gentle/annoying bonk (like distant sheep bells) when I've got my feet out. As nuts as it sounds I think the sound makes Jasper antsy. (And the weird squeaking of a saddle that is not 50+ years old).


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## redbadger

Preface: I know, he's not my horse, and I don't get to feel this way. But one of the women at the barn was talking with the BO about doing lessons again (since Toby and Louie were sold, and Robin retired, we don't really have a suitable lesson horse) and saying she wanted to try out all of Terry's horses and see how they did in the ring. So she asked me how Jasper does and I said he knows what it's for, but as far as I can tell, he thinks it's dumb and boring (and I suspect he feels like our ring is quite small for his body). She said she'd only use him if she had "a really big person". And - I mean, I know he's not my horse, like I said. I don't get to object to this. But I'm selfish. I don't want him getting dragged on in lessons. 

I don't think I'm ever going to find a horse that meet the BO's qualifications in both stature/conformation as well as price (aka cheap) that'll be a suitable swap-out for Jasper, so I don't think he's ever going to be legally mine. I think I just have to resign myself to us being what we are. (We are good together. I love him. He's going to break my heart if I own him or not. I think if he has a Human Preference, it's me.)


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## walkinthewalk

Too bad you couldn’t find an attractive way (as in $$$) to convince the BO to lease Jasper exclusively to you.

It sounds like he’s running out of lesson horses thru attritio, and Jasper should not be left holding the bag by ending up giving lessons to everyone.

The BO is going to have to bite the bullet and buy a couple of horses. After reading the hay shortage article someone posted, I think the price of horses is going to take a nose dive in the coming months. Finding a couple of good horses may not be that difficult.









Hay supply projected at lowest level in more than a century


Beef Outlook: Beef producers may see even higher hay and corn costs if USDA planting projections hold.




www.farmprogress.com





Keep looking. You will find a suitable trade for Jasper when you least expect it💐💐


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## redbadger

There are no current lesson horses. There are four trail horses, up to five when the ponykid guides because he uses his own horse. At $50/person/hour, Jasper makes more in a couple days rides (3-4 rides a day in summer) than I pay to lease him, and as a trail horse he brings in well more per month than board (even with the board raised to $450 this month). Some prospects the BO has lost to private sales (so and so falls in love with the new horse and now it's a boarder not a public horse). He makes more money over time if I don't own him, and if I bought him outright for the average CL horse price round here ($2500-$4500) that's still less than a year's worth of board, and less than a month of rides if I'm mathing correctly (and yes, I have that money, and even if I didn't, I could make it in a month). If I went to an auction and bought a couple-three horses for cheap, there's no guarantee they'd be workable. (I have a decent eye for external conformation which tells me 0 about internal problems or behavioral issues). It would take an actual miracle for me to be able to buy Jasper.


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## redbadger

So, recently, one of the original stirrups from the new saddle broke (it's one of those long square "endurance" stirrups, and the bar at the top broke, something like). So I put on a spare pair of oversized (I wear my clonky boots everywhere) stirrups. However: these stirrups are "taller" than the other ones, so I found that if they were set where the other stirrups had been, they were too far/long for my leg. So I set them up a little bit - found them still too long. Set them up again, and I think the right leather/stirrup strap is shorter than the left, but they still don't fit right. This is very frustrating. Admittedly, 90% of the time I just don't use them, but they're nice to have just in case, and I do still use them when cantering. (Yes, the solution is just to learn to canter without stirrups, I suppose). At any rate this is still an adjustment and I'm confounded by it. 

Overall tho he seems comfortable in the new saddle and we are having good rides. He is getting senior feed and hasn't lost any more weight, and I think his arthritis isn't as bad with the vitamin E supplement. He is his usual charming self, full of beans and opinions. I haven't let him jump any of the little logs in the new saddle - some of that is my discomfort and some is just wondering how he'll feel about it - but he wants to, so that's a good sign. I'd like us to ride in another hunter pace this year, if we can.


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## Sombrablu

redbadger said:


> Oh no here we go again.
> 
> 
> (sidenote: the barn is currently closed to customers proper, but as 'people involved in the care/wellbeing of pets/animals/livestock' are considered exceptions, there's, uh, leeway. which is important as horses are one of my last current connections to sanity at this point.)
> 
> 
> I digress.
> 
> 
> I was told today that the young woman who leases Jasper - the other horse I ride besides Toby - has been laid off for 3 months and can't afford to keep up her lease. My trainer offered the lease to me. (til the young woman is back, of course.)
> 
> 
> It's $200/month, so with me often riding 2x a week (at $40 for a trail ride and $60 for a lesson) that's ultimately less than I pay by session, and my trainer wouldn't charge me extra for a lesson. I'd be allowed to ride him 3x a week, for however long, whenever he's not otherwise working. And it certainly doesn't preclude me from riding Toby if he's available, either.
> 
> 
> Overall it's a really solid deal. But, Jasper is a big horse and forward - he's 16.1(ish?), covers a lot of ground, likes to move. He will work in the ring (his leaser does), though he doesn't like it, and he might be difficult on that note especially to work him at a speed above a walk. For all his forwardness, though, he is a very smooth ride (just. so tall. so much legs.) and not nuts. (working theory, though no one knows his background, is maybe someone tried to make an eventing horse of him, but his perspective on jumping is just to haul over an obstacle without grace or care so that may not have worked). So I guess my worry is that he's too much horse for me, but at the same time, we have worked pretty well on the trail together, and 3x a week might help that issue.
> 
> 
> But I am seeking counsel from wiser horse people before I make a decision.


If you want to maintain sanity come to Wyoming! Nothing changed here we didn’t even notice the shenanigans. Come join the free crazy people and ride your horses and live life again!


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## redbadger

I haven't updated this in forever, but I don't want to clog the Friday night convos, either. 

As much as we have our awkward moments, I am really incredibly fortunate to have a horse like Jasper. He's strong, sane, experienced, brave, sound, no vices, he actually seems to prefer going out alone, all his gaits are comfortable, he's perhaps the best teacher I could ask for. Also he's just a really nice looking horse imho. Who doesn't love a big, beautifully conformed chestnut? 

My trainer told me that we need to practice control. She wanted me to practice stopping and standing, on the trail, for at least a count of 3 and work my way up. That's actually going well - he's not asked to do it often, but he's smart enough and believes me enough that he's quickly getting the hang of it. We have been given a reprieve because the deer flies have been a complete horror-show, and stopping when there are clouds of flies biting away is just unpleasant for everyone. Today and yesterday, the bugs were not quite as bad, so we did practice again. Funny things he's been doing since we started practicing: 

1. In all the time I've known him, he keeps walking when he's on the trail and needs to poop. I have never told him he has to, but he does. Now that we've been practicing the stop and count, he stops to poop. 

2. Because I've taken to halting him to pick biting flies off his ears (they are under a fly mask, but the bugs are devils), when he gets one, he now slows down and sort of leans his head back as if to say "hey, help me out here". (he gets helped). 

Last week we had a nice chance to prove that we have, in fact, been practicing. A gal has started leasing Romeo, and she'd like to go out alone, but the BO and everyone of course want to make sure that she's capable of that (and that Romeo is willing to do so - he's not buddy sour, but he Loves His Friends). So we ended up all going out (the three of us) last Thursday. Walk/trot/canter. So I got to show my trainer that I can hold him back when I decide (so he doesn't, as he is usually allowed to, just start trotting with everyone else) and control his speed more adroitly. We did well! I can't speak for how skilled the gal is or is not. Romeo is, at least in part, gaited, and she's now added to the list of people who don't like his gait. (I rode him in the ring once. I liked his gait! It was fun. But many people are, for whatever reason, not fans of it.) Hopefully things work out. 

Our last two rides together have been tremendously peaceful. No one else is around, and we are enjoying the scenery and lack of bugs (at least I am enjoying the scenery). There are bees in the wildflowers, all kinds of birds, the young hawk is being a loud teenager (but when we are quiet, we come up very close to her before she takes off). The odd snake basking. Pine needles are baking away in the heat with a lovely smell.

Today was funny. So, my trainer is letting me use an old pair of her angled stirrups, because they are supposed to be good for cranky knees (like mine). 90% of the time I don't use stirrups, part of which is habitual and part of which is comfort (my knees). But I typically wear them cantering for a bit of security (the trot I can do either way). The angled stirrups are indeed much more comfortable, but they're also a little more difficult to "find" when I need to wear them. (this is just going to take some practice). We were on our second canter and my right foot slipped out cueing him up, and for some reason, my immediate solution was to just drop my left stirrup and keep going. Which we did, and just as comfortable as having them in, no problems transitioning down. It didn't occur to me til later that most people probably would've tried to put their foot back in, not just drop the other one. :lol: 

It's going to be much too hot to ride tomorrow and potentially Friday. I start a new job on Monday, so we'll see how my schedule works out in the future.


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## redbadger

My riding instructor has been very sick, and between new job shifts, Jasper and I have been dodging other trail rides. He is also not getting worked as much so he is getting, let's say, zesty. I love that he has that energy, but I do not necessarily love having to go into the spin cycle on our rides. It's hard. There's sort of a limited number of places we can go, though we've been creative in avoiding the other rides. Last week we went across the street, up the long powerline hill. That's not ideal, because it's very steep. I also don't know the trails on top of the hill well, and he challenges me if he thinks we're getting too far from home up there. We've also gone into the back field to waste time avoiding a trail ride, gone down another trail that hasn't been used in a while, etc, etc. I looked at the creek/river today and I still don't like the looks of it - now it's so murky it's nearly green, and I don't know what's under it. 

On the other hand: we are doing better at stopping and standing on my cue, and got up to a count of 7. We stood to the side and waited very nicely for other riders to pass in the opposite direction. We've had some really nice canter-trot-walk transitions. So all is not lost. Perhaps if my riding instructor feels better and the BO lets us, we could go to the hunter pace again. The plovers are no longer nesting and maybe there will be a beach ride. 

On the third hand, something seems "up" with his left front. He's not lame as far as I can feel or tell, not unwilling, but he was sensitive when I cleaned it out and was very fussed about having the right picked up. I texted my instructor, who cautions it might be an abscess, or it might be thrush. Or he pulled something being himself or having butthead-battles with Beau and Peppy out in the field. I don't know at this point (something I don't like), but I put on liniment after our ride on all four legs, and hosed the foot down in case it's an abscess, and put thrush buster on. And then he got carrots. I won't see him again til next Thursday. My instructor says she'll try to come down in the meantime to check on him. Hopefully it's nothing major and he's ok soon.

(good thing my credit limit was just raised, innit?)


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## walkinthewalk

It can be very frustrating trying to figure out exactly where the ”off” is. Sometimes even a video doesn’t help.

Hopefully your trainer soon feels better and can get to the barn in a day or so. At least you know which leg it is because Jasper doesn’t want to put weight on it when you picked up the opposite leg🥴


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## redbadger

It's frustrating in human medicine - that much more so when Jasper can't say "ow, my foot hurts" . At least if there was something obvious like a scrape or a swelling. And then because he's not refusing anything - he's being his usual self, zesty, willing, even still wanted to pop over our favorite log. And that's all with my body being stiff from my big swim, so surely not feeling the best to him. 

I had thought maybe a pull, because the other day we tried to go around a tree that has tilted so far we can't go under it (certainly not with a Western saddle), and discovered the lovely moss was actually that sneaky moss that grows in mats over exposed roots/branches. The kind you step on thinking it's solid and end up butt deep (for humans) in a loamy hole. So many options. 

Hopefully it's something straightforward, and otherwise he's a healthy fella with good feet and no underlying conditions besides being an old man.


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## redbadger

My riding instructor is still recuperating, so a few things are happening: 

Jasper is "spicy", I think in part because between my instructor being ill and the younger guide(s) being back at school, he's simply not getting worked very much. I can only be out so many days, with work and other responsibilities. I would not say he's testing me, just ... energetic. On the one hand, I want to wear him out a bit, on the other, I don't want to "reward" his zestiness by allowing him to run exactly when or as much as he wants to. When he doesn't listen, we go into the Spin Cycle, which we've done probably 2-3 times the last few rides. I don't particularly like it, nor does he really. On the other hand, overall, like I said, he's not testing me he's just energetic, because otherwise, he's good about doing things like "I want to go this way" and "we're going to stop and stand until I say we go". Actually he's getting a lot better at that, but it's those spots where we _can_ go faster where he's like OH BOY. TIME TO GO. I want to run too! But I need it to be controlled. A conundrum. 

When we're in an unfamiliar space and/or he's being a severe butt, he will do this thing where he ducks his head very low (to his knees) and backs up when he doesn't want to go where I want to go. He does this often up on the hill across the street, which is not at all familiar to us and he thinks we're going "too far" from home. Ideally, we'd be with my riding instructor, but when we're alone it's just very difficult. I don't want to get us hurt, but I also want him to _not_ be a butt and think that exactly 1hr is the time limit for working (man has a VERY functional internal clock). I'm not sure what to do about the head ducking (vs the giraffe-ing). Either way he seems to be trying to escape the bit? 

I suppose we could go up the gas line hill to the trails up top for a while. It means having to go back down the gas line hill, but going across the street is a hill, too. The gas line has some plateaus at least. I'd like to find the fields up across the street but we haven't yet, and Jasper keeps thinking we're going Too Far. Doesn't help it's all overgrown.

What we probably should do is just find somewhere to go out for like 2 hours where we can just work on communication for a while, incognito. I miss my riding instructor. (I do want her to feel better for non-selfish reasons)


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## knightrider

You didn't get your beach ride in the spring. Will it happen this fall? I want you to get to have that ride!

We are planning our beach ride now and hope you get yours too.


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## redbadger

Well, the birds have long finished nesting season, but my riding instructor (who guides) has been sick. I hope so. We couldn't do the hunter pace, either. I'm angling maybe we could go for a more local field trip when she feels better. Somewhere serene with lots of space. Beach is an ultimate goal, though.


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## redbadger

Well we had a day, I suppose. 

So, this was the plan: 










Spoiler: the plan was not successful. At least, not as I laid it out. 

The biggest question was whether or not that trail between the road and the lake trail actually existed. The second biggest question was whether or not Jasper would be willing to go there, seeing as how he'd never actually been (to my knowledge). It was ... a time. Getting across the first big road is a challenge. By the '3' marker there used to be a turn to the right to go up the hill, but it's closed off due to a solar farm being build on top of it. So he sort of knows at least up til that point. But he was fussed most of it. We made it to the turn! The trail exists! ...but it's not safe for creatures with 4 legs. I could navigate it with two legs and my trekking poles, but it just wasn't going to be passable on horseback. The town maps indicate there's another trail about 200yds north of the first, but Jasper was _not_ going to go any further. Sigh. So, we went back. We ended up working in the ring for a while. One of the boarders (used to be a riding instructor at one time) gave us a relatively unbiased eye and helped us out. We practiced lots of halts, starts, and circles, much perhaps to Jasper's chagrin. But we got better at it. 

Things we did which were successes:

1. We made it to that trail, even if it wasn't passable. We got passed by a car, and big a big dump truck. We're alive. 
2. We did well with the ring practice.
3. We managed to open the ring gate at the end, by ourselves - one of those 12-foot-wide sections of fencing. He actually side-passes when push comes to shove. Sort of. 

So even if we didn't make it to the lake, we made some progress. It may or may not go better if we go with someone else, like my riding instructor. I can't say Steele wouldn't have a fit about it, either.


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## walkinthewalk

Number one on your list Is the most important🤠🤠. The only thing worse than a big dump truck is a big dump truck pulling a backhoe on a low boy, on a narrow road🤯🤯

You and Jasper did great💐👍💐👍


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## redbadger

I feel a bit disappointed in myself for not making it to the lake one way or another. It's hard to remember that it's still progress to get him somewhere we've never been and that we are not actually required to go a certain minimum distance. It's sometimes hard to remember that this is a learning experience for both of us. It's also hard not to feel disappointed at not being able to do everything by ourselves and that it's ok to wish we had help. At that, I feel like a lot of trust has been placed in us to be let to go wander alone and I want us to live up to that. 

And people were merrily speeding along what's shown on that map as Upton St. (The speed limit is 45mph which people take as a suggestion.) Even where it curves, folks don't slow down. 

(It wasn't helpful that I was still sort of recuperating from a headache/earache so bad I went to the ED last night, where, naturally, it felt better by the time triage got to me. I think it may be a nascent ear infection. Not to make excuses.)


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## egrogan

walkinthewalk said:


> The only thing worse than a big dump truck is a big dump truck pulling a backhoe on a low boy, on a narrow road🤯🤯


I’ll add to this…going around a blind curve in that narrow road while the dump truck pulling backhoe comes towards you from the other direction 😳

My mare and I found ourselves in that situation this summer. Luckily the driver was going pretty slow because of that curve, but we were still so close I could reach out and touch the backhoe. She’s about as steady as they come but even she was rattled by that. We were riding with a 6 year old gelding in his longest ride ever away from home, but he handled it like a champ-his rider and her husband own an excavation company so he sees things like that going by his paddock all the time!


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## walkinthewalk

@egrogan , and some people think a trail horse is a “nothing” horse🙄🙄

My Duke (RIP) was like your mare, unflappable. There isn’t enough money for a solid trail horse with a good brain😍😍


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## redbadger

So don't anyone take this as gospel. My trainer talked to me yesterday. Said the BO had spoken with her a couple of times about, if he were to sell Jasper to me, would I be willing to "lease back" and allow BO to use him a certain number of hours a week. She told me he'd brought it up once, but he is often idle talk and his memory can be a sieve. But he's brought it up a second time.

She had told him to be aware that, being wildly in love with this horse, I would likely want him to myself. What I did say to my trainer was that I would be willing to allow him used for a written, proscribed number of hours or a particular day a week. The benefit to me would be that since the BO is "leasing back", my board cost would remain the same. I would have more responsibility for his vet care (vaccines, teeth, if he gets hurt with me I'm responsible, if he were hurt on a public ride the BO would be responsible). I also said if I just lease Jasper for the rest of his life, it is what it is. I am not hoping one way or another, just aware that the slimmest prayer exists.


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## walkinthewalk

YAY!!! It is something positive 🐎🐎. It would give you more control regarding Jasper’s usage.

Here’s hoping🙏🙏


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## redbadger

The usual barn shenanigans that I am only peripherally associated with, because I don't have time for that kind of drama and stress: there are, if I haven't lost count, four new boarders. Two are rescues, pleasant if somewhat ragged looking geldings who are slowly gaining weight and becoming more interested in people. One is an appy, owned by a woman who knows horses, and is by all accounts pretty much just a sane, easygoing guy. The fourth is a great big draft cross - unfortunately, purchased by a young woman who's been riding less than a year, and this is her third horse in some months. She apparently has friends who pick the horses for her, and ... she needs new friends. One was sick, one came up lame, and this one ... well, she's scared of him. Also, he keeps shoving his head into the burrs (efforts to eradicate them are ongoing), and now is being treated for an eye ulcer because of it. Busy times. 

Moving to a full time schedule as of next week - it's a rotating pattern that I haven't quite firmly figured out yet, but it's on my calendar, and I still get to spend, where possible, at least twice a week with Jasper. We are doing well and working on communication. We're better - he stops pretty easily when asked, without fuss, and we haven't had to have any firm discussions regarding who decides when we go faster and when we just walk. More frequently, now, he walks with collection. Today we had a short trot that felt very "dancy" in its lightness - bigger than his jog, but light, strong. 

I noticed he has some bald patches on his pits that my trainer says are the beginnings of girth sores. The skin isn't tender and it's not raw, or broken. I am frustrated because I bought the girth he has now - a diamond-shaped rope/mohair girth - because my trainer said they were less likely to cause sores, and I'm careful about doing up the girth and positioning it right, but... other people are not so careful, and here we are. They'd rather do it fast than come in earlier and do it carefully. And here we are. But I have no say. My trainer is careful, too, but three days of the week she's not in. 

Funny thing - I noticed this, and I asked about it - he's got a preference for where I stand when I lead him. He wants me on his left shoulder, and he'll actually hang back and maneuver if he can in order to place me there. Not aggressively, but he's kind of like - hey, what are you doing on that side? You should be over here. 

The autumn colors make me sentimental. He looks at me with some kind of thought and interest, talks to me with his ears and his body. I think he enjoys my company, in whatever way that means for him. I enjoy his.


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## walkinthewalk

YAY on your new job going full time — I think🥴

I feel for horses that keep getting flipped because the humans aren’t capable of making a good decision. I hope things improve for the new horses.

Jasper — you are in tune to what he asks for👍😎👍😎.

Duncan, the Dutch Warmblood who landed on my farm for retirement is very precise. He has lived his e tire life in a strict and controlled environment. He is uncannily intelligent and wants certain things done THIS way. He kindly lets me know if I mess up, so I try my best to oblige him by standing in the proper position to halter him or put his is fly mask on for example🥰

My Walking Horses have never been that precise because they were/are die hard trail horses. Out on the trail, one never knows when when one has to improvise and “proper” goes out the window. Or that your human is only 5’2” , now uses a cane, and sometimes throws the fly mask over your ears because you didn’t quite put your head down far enough for my shoulders to reach up😇

There are no answers for Jasper’s girth sores when there are other people cinching him up☹ The best you and your trainer can do is to possibly keep ointment on them, when you’re at the barn, to keep them from breaking open.


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## redbadger

Three of the four new horses are apparently in good hands - at least, the two rougher ones are settling in and thinking humans are pretty ok, and Doodlebug the appy (btw a perfect name for him) has fit right in. I feel for this woman and going through so many horses - her "friends" are clearly doing a terrible job, and she's got to be paying through the nose each time. It sounds like she needs the quietest, sanest lump of a horse available, and that's just ... not happening. Bad for the horses and liable to get her hurt. 

Yes, my trainer said Jasper was probably trained at a place where humans _always_ walked on his left shoulder, and taught him he needed to be on their right. It's interesting to consider how he might've been trained, or where he came from, based on his behaviors and what he seems to know (and dredge up when asked) now. He puts his head down automatically for the bit and the halter. I've managed to teach - or re-teach, or convince - him to stand in place while I grab the mounting block (from about 10 feet away, so still within sightlines), and he's reasonably good at simply following me back into the barn when we're done and waiting for me to unbridle him before going into a stall. (I don't have any particular reason for this, I just want him to have good manners, so I always ask him to stop and wait for me before letting him go into the stall. Just like I tell him 'show me good manners please' when he's doing his vacuum cleaner face over food, so he turns to the side and waits politely for me to give him his grain or hay). 

Would something like A&D paste work as a protectant? Or maybe desitin?

I didn't ride today, but I know he's going to work hard over the weekend.


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## walkinthewalk

In this case the A&D ointment might better.

Diaper rash paste is one of my favorite things but it is messy and will be more difficult to clean off the cinch🤠

The good thing is your or your trainer can keep an eye on him for half the week if the sore does break open - Forbid that happens but the BO, by all that’s right, should not let Jasper be ridden if that happens.

The mercenary statement to him could be, if the wound gets sore enough under the cinch Jasper might take to really misbehaving or even bucking and he wouldn’t be happy if one of “those other people”:got bucked off or lost their balance and fell off because Jasper was jigging around😛😛

That would buy Jasper some time away from the string 👍👍


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## redbadger

A&D is mainly lanolin, I think. That'll work. I don't see him again til Monday so hopefully nothing happens over the weekend. 

The BO is currently house-confined with an injured knee. He injured it last Friday and kept stomping around on it til Monday, when he started complaining about it. And, you know farmers, horse people, if the BO's complaining it absolutely hurts. But he's down for the count and all he can do is make phone calls. The inmates are running the asylum at the moment, so to speak. 

My trainer is the guide on Friday and Saturday. So, while it's busy, I know she will try to avoid using him too much if possible, and I know she'll cinch him properly (she taught me to cinch, I learned all my good habits from her). Sunday one of the "kids" is guiding and he's, let us say, not careful. (honestly, his own horse's saddle doesn't fit _at all_, it's a cool saddle and all but I swear it perches there like a bird but I digress). But him and the other gal are mostly into getting things done quick - they don't always brush the horses out properly, or make sure the blankets and pads are clean and free of hay where they touch the horse's back, that sort of thing. 

Jasper is typically an exceptionally good lad for the public. If he behaves badly, something is seriously wrong - he never complains (like the BO) unless it's urgent.


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## walkinthewalk

@redbadger even when your comments are of a serious nature, you have an entertaining and humorous way of writing 🤠🤠

Maybe writing & publishing your own short stories could be a side hustle and even a means to early retirement✍ 🌴✍🌴


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## QtrBel

redbadger said:


> feel for this woman and going through so many horses - her "friends" are clearly doing a terrible job, and she's got to be paying through the nose each time. It sounds like she needs the quietest, sanest lump of a horse available, and that's just ... not happening. Bad for the horses and liable to get her hurt.


Playing devils advocate. I'd say I feel sorry for the friends. She is quite possibly placing impossible demands in front of them and they are doing their best. Either she'll wise up or the friends will step away. I hate that drafts seem to come with a sign that says just love on me; I'm the quietest, safest, lump you'll find. So not true. In theory it sounds great. The reality is very different. I feel they and the crosses are also somewhat of a status symbol. Too often they end up in hands that can't manage their size or personality. 

Hoping things work out for you and Jasper. It would be nice to have that extra control. The two of you have come so far.


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## redbadger

QtrBel said:


> Playing devils advocate. I'd say I feel sorry for the friends. She is quite possibly placing impossible demands in front of them and they are doing their best. Either she'll wise up or the friends will step away. I hate that drafts seem to come with a sign that says just love on me; I'm the quietest, safest, lump you'll find. So not true. In theory it sounds great. The reality is very different. I feel they and the crosses are also somewhat of a status symbol. Too often they end up in hands that can't manage their size or personality.
> 
> Hoping things work out for you and Jasper. It would be nice to have that extra control. The two of you have come so far.


Her other horses have been two grade horses of average size (in the 15s), so I don't think she's particularly after a draft cross or something big and pretty. I can't say she's making great choices - she bought each of the without seeing them in person, relying on the friends, who also did not ride any of the horses themselves. At any rate as always I prefer to watch all of this go down from the sidelines. The bleachers even. The nosebleeds if possible.


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## walkinthewalk

redbadger said:


> The bleachers even. The nosebleeds if possible.


With binoculars- don’t forget the binoculars 😎👍😎👍


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## QtrBel

Even with binoculars in the nosebleed you might get sucked in though....

I'll pass a rec along to a knowledgeable person that knows what they're looking for for a client but to the client - nope. That's why they hired someone. To someone looking for a horse that asks for recommendations - nope. But I will give them the names of local trainers/instructor's that I know in hopes they sign on for lessons and/or an evaluation in ability before they go out and purchase. That way they have two things going for them and the horse they're considering. First is that the trainer will know more about their needs and how the horse will be housed and utilized which figures into needs and second is that if they do run into trouble they have that person to fall back on if their ego doesn't get in the way.


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## redbadger

Working in EMS for 8 years - a very insular profession - got me pretty good at avoiding internal drama. Thank goodness. I am happy Jasper is perfectly pleased to go out by ourselves - we just quietly get ready and go out and enjoy the birds and occasional beasts and the changing seasons. I hope this year we can get in a snow ride. 

The other best thing is if I owned Jasper maybe we could go on a "field trip" somewhere, a state park or some conservation land. My friend and I went to a state park north of me that is a former farm estate, still a working dairy farm, very popular with local equestrians, big wide paths, gently rolling hills. (They actually host a hunter pace there sometime during early summer I believe). I like to imagine I have pretty simple, uncomplicated horse wishes. Me, my horse, a quiet trail, pretty birds, good communication.


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## redbadger




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## walkinthewalk

Jasper you handsome rascal😍😍


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## redbadger

I bought this for him at the Equine Affaire because no one had regular blaze orange bonnets in his size, and I thought it'd be nice to have the extra visibility. I am unclear if he looks absurd or handsome or both, but it's definitely visible.


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## redbadger

Confession: I have an irrational fear that if I buy Jasper something practical that something bad will happen. Like fate will say HAH! YOU LOVE SOMETHING, IT'S GOING TO GO AWAY. I am aware he is an old man - I don't know how old and lord knows if he's slowed from his youth I wonder what his youth looked like.

Jasper has lost some weight. More than he should, going into winter, though he is not lacking appetite or energy. My trainer has upped his grain and when I bring him in I make sure he eats as much hay as he can in the time I'm there. On my trainer's suggestion I bought him a turnout sheet - light, for the cold rain which will inevitably be most of December. And until we get his weight back up. Most of his field has lost weight - they were just wormed a couple weeks ago, so not that. Just unsure. For Jas, maybe a tooth. He's not dropping his feed or looking like he's struggling with it. Some of that is out of my control unfortunately - the teeth, the type of hay (BO just gets a big ol trailer load every few weeks). Anyway. 

Riding wise things are going pretty ok - when he's too full of beans, we do have to do some work (spin cycle, a lot of turning and backing). But more frequently now we find the "sweet spot" of a quick, collected trot. Not his dancing jog, but one where you can just about feel his legs flicking in time, even, strong. It's hard to describe it, but it's a fine time. 

He is a good boy, really. My trainer says she seldom really sees a horse his age so strong and energetic. (What's his age? Who knows. 26? 27? 30?)


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## ACinATX

Where I boarded a few years ago, one winter all of the horses lost a lot of weight. The barn owner wasn't giving them enough hay, but she had convinced herself that because they were on acreage it was fine, they'd get the calories they needed somehow.

When you mention giving him hay when he comes in, and all the horses lose weight, that's what that reminds me of. I would buy bales of alfalfa hay and give it to my horses whenever I brought them in. But I shouldn't have had to do that -- she should have fed them enough so they weren't losing weight.

She lost a lot of boarders over that.


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## redbadger

The BO can be a combination of old school and tight fisted and you have to convince him that things are his idea. Sometimes the hay in the trailer is not the tastiest (per the horses reviews). But it's also his policy that if a horse is in (like for trails, or when the boarders are in at night) they are to have hay and water in front of them at all times. 

Jasper's field which is... Two ponies, and seven horses (I could be miscounting) gets I think 5 45-50lb bales twice a day (morning and evening), spread out in piles so they don't fight as much over it. I'm pretty sure on Sundays when the teens are working they don't give the trail horses (who are in all day because they're working) hay in their stalls, tho.


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## redbadger

We had two nice rides yesterday - one by ourselves and one tagging along with a guest. He didn't fuss and try to trot when I hadn't asked, walked nicely. Got to drink from his special water. The footing is mixed. The other day we saw a fisher cat, but not again. We've also seen glimpses of what I think is a northern harrier. 

Slightly more often, I am finding the "sweet spot" to cue Jasper into a quick, collected trot I internally call the carriage trot. It's tricky because of course no one sees us, and it's difficult to articulate what I'm doing to ask if I'm doing it "right". Jasper, also, seems to be reaching into the distance recesses of his brain to dust off what the cue is for. It's very pleasant, both the gait itself and the communication. 

Then we got home the second time and he was a right brat, which I'm still frustrated by. Ordinarily when I walk him to a stall, he will stand nicely and wait for me to take the bridle off before he goes in. Or, stand nicely and wait for me to walk in with him. Oh, no. This time he turned around and tried to drag me into a totally different stall (which had grain in it), then when I wrangled him tried to drag me into the original stall. Pulled him out and made him circle several times before putting him back in. Think I made an impression because after a bit he was yawning and licking his lips in what I recall is a horsey "I'm sorry, you're the boss" expression. 

The guest had some carrots in the immediate aftermath and asked to give him one. 

"No. Maybe later." 
"Aw but look at his face, he doesn't know any better."
Me & my trainer simultaneously: "Yes, he does." 

He very much has better manners than that. I am mostly (now) embarrassed by having him drag me around in front of everyone. (I am not still mad at him). It's supposed to rain tomorrow so we'll see if I see him.


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## walkinthewalk

Ahhh! The “me thinks I will test you in front of strangers to see what I can get away with” test😇😇

In my entire life with horses, I have only ever had one horse who was a perfect horse in that regard and that was my beloved Joker who passed last February. Joker never once tried anything bad🥰🥰

Rusty, to this day, is my all time worst for testing. He has no pride - he can be looking me straight in the eye and try something 😂😂

Sooner or later, for whatever reason, they will try some thing just to see🐎🐎

Good on you and your trainer for not letting “that person” give Jasper a treat. That would have been a roundabout way of rewarding Jasper for bad behavior, for starters.

He is still a cutie😍😍


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## redbadger

It's nice to know (and good to remember) this happens to long time experienced horse people too. 🤣 

He had plenty of hay and water in the stall so he was being deprived of nothing but attention and ear scratches. He is, as I told the guest, "a grown-up man" who knows how to behave and does not get rewarded for mischief. I like to think I try hard to make sure he minds (and maybe generalizes to others, but I'm actually not sure to what degree horses generalize their behavior when it's not immediately beneficial like "where the food is" or "avoiding work").

He got carrot from me later, before turning him out. He is still sweet and handsome and most of the time a gentleman.


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## redbadger

A certain tall redhead lost a front shoe sometime in the last 24-48h (presumably since he was used recently, probably yesterday) which means while we couldn't ride today, it does mean that he gets his winter shoes on sooner than he would otherwise. (BO likes to push the trail horses out to 12 weeks, not my idea, and not something I have a lot of control over unfortunately). Clever horse. 

But I have a conundrum with the upcoming Weather. Here, it's supposed to start raining Thursday night and continue with rain and high winds through Friday. But then the temps are supposed to plunge on Friday from a high of 58 (!!) to a low of 17. We have been, basically, putting the turnout sheet on when it's wet and windy (so, like, that 40 degree cold rain with wind). 

It seems like if we put the sheet on for Friday, it'll be much too warm, even with the wind. But if we don't put the sheet on til nightfall, he'll be too wet (unless the rain stops) to put it on anyway. Help. Why is this so complicated. (additionally complicated by the fact that I am working Thursday so I can't put it on Thursday evening either, I'd have to have someone else do it).


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## egrogan

Pretty much the same setup here @redbadger. For me, the sheets will be on to keep them dry in the rain. Then the medium weights will go on as close to the big temp dip as I can make happen (i.e., before my very early bedtime). I know that's not as easy when they aren't in your backyard. But yes, I'd rather have them slightly stuffy through the rain than soaked to the skin in wind, and then the below freezing temp drop. And really, even though the temp are that "high," with the wind and driving rain, I don't actually think they're going to get too hot. I can't stand the idea that one 50*F day is going to cause so much havoc (we have all this snow that is going to partially melt and then flash freeze, ugh).


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## redbadger

God, yeah, you guys are going to be encased in a skating rink, aren't you. Yikes. I'll take the rain on hard ground. 

So would you sheet him starting Thursday night and then just leave him til Saturday morning when the sun comes back out? He has basically the "jacket" (a tough1 waterproof sheet), an a more insulated blanket we've used in cold-cold temps. Those are my two choices. I don't think it's cold enough for the heavier one as long as he's dry to begin with.


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## egrogan

Personally, I would put on the sheet. Will someone check him to make sure the sheet doesn’t soak through between Thursday and Saturday? That would be my only concern about that length of time. Even good sheets can get leaky with 24+ hours of heavy rain.


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## redbadger

There will be someone there who can probably check - he's brought in for a meal in the morning at least. Technically he's supposed to be brought in for breakfast and dinner, but the evening person is not great at that so most likely Friday morning.


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## redbadger

Okay, I've left instructions for the plan: 

Thursday PM: sheet before it starts raining
Friday: leave the sheet on. I may or may not be able to make it out but when he gets fed in the AM it should get checked. Unless he refuses to come in. 
Friday PM: if possible have someone switch out his sheet for his blankets aka pajamas. Leave it on til Saturday. 
Saturday AM: un-blanket, apologize for making him wear clothes. 

I left my phone number too in case there's any questions. My trainer is away for xmas which does complicate things slightly.

He also got his winter shoes on today.


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## redbadger

Back to the barn at last. No, I did not think I was going to ride. Aside from the fact that tacking sounded tiring, it was also heavy-mist-turning-to-rain at the time and riding in cold, pelting rain isn't much fun. Okay, maybe I hoped I would feel well enough and it would be dry enough to walk around the yard bareback. It's ok. 

He got fed - sort of, there was a delay in the grain shipment, so he got only senior feed instead of his usual mix, which I am sure pleased him just fine. Several small flakes of hay while being groomed, which I spent a while doing. In particular the poor guy had not just dingleberries but most of a dinglevineyard. He's fortunate I love him enough to wash his butt crusties off (with _warm_ water, I promise). He is never particularly bothered by this - in fact, he was more bothered by the initial attempt to curry the crud out. Anyway, I just spent some time hanging around and brushing and grooming him and gave him his annual mint or two and turned him out. 

His turnout has gone missing, for some reason. This is mostly my fault for not remembering my good fabric marker to put his name on it (it doesn't have a tag inside for that, for some reason), and then getting sick for nearly two weeks, so I couldn't keep an eye on it. But it is not in any of the places it might be, and absolutely not in the place that it _should_ be. (there are some hooks where his heavier blanket lives, which is where his "jacket" should be when it's not being used). All three people, who work at the barn, and were there today, claim no knowledge although one of the women who works there says she "might have" put it on one of the boarders by mistake, even though it's a) the wrong color and b) rather more importantly, the wrong size. Fortunately, if it is on him, he can't get too far, and no one in the boarders' field is especially destructive with blankets. It will turn up and I am too tired to be particularly peeved at this time (ask me again in 3 days when I still don't know where it is).


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## redbadger

Hah! His turnout was found yesterday, on him, though he had apparently rolled in filth at some point and was not groomed under it. So I don't know who found it or where it was between the time I turned him out and the time my instructor came by and he had it on again. 

We did get to go out today. Not as long as we might otherwise, but good to get back at it, and the footing wasn't awful. The creek and all the streams are high and fast. He declined to take a drink at Special Water, because of course, since we went all that way to go see it, he should skip it. Just took a nice walk in the mist, basically.

I will say he wasn't - clingy is not the word, but curious, checking with me more often when he was eating/I was letting him "marinate" in the saddle before fully tightening it. If I coughed he would snort back. When I went to bring him in, I was going to see if Romeo would come along as well as they get fed at the same time. They were in the far end of the field and Romeo went off toward the gate nearest the barn, but Jasper stopped at the gate where I was. I asked if he wanted to go down with Romeo, he looked that way, then looked expectantly back at me and came up and nosed the gate. So, I guess he wanted to come with me instead. I think he must've missed me while I was gone, and wondered where I had gone, and then wondered why we didn't ride on Tuesday. He seemed happy to go out - back to normal for him, I suppose. "Oh good, the human who doesn't bother with stirrups is back."


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