# Belgian Conformation



## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

So many of you have already seen all my posts on my newest baby <3 He's just the love of my life!!

Just for learning's sake I'm curious about his conformation. I've never met another Belgian like him! Most Belgians I know are 16-17 hands, broad, heavy legs and light feathering, they're also almost all chestnuts (flaxen or otherwise).
Revel is about 18.2 (couldn't quite measure him he was flapping around ) and narrow, not as heavily built as the other Belgians. Does anyone know if there is a special line of Belgians that they're making to be like him? Are the bred for a different purpose?

He lived his life as a carriage horse (i drove him years ago) after a few years of watching his condition deteriorate I quit, a few years later they finally were willing to sell him to me. He came in pretty terrible shape, it's been almost 2 months so his weight is coming back on and he's rehydrated. So in judging his conformation keep in mind that he's coming back from being very underweight, he had lost almost all his muscle tone on his top line and hind end.

Sorry for my novel ^^ here are the pics!!

















































For size comparison, I'm 5ft









This was the condition he arrived in - it's been about 2 months since then


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## Jake and Dai (Aug 15, 2008)

What a cutie! 

I don't know anything about Belgian conformation but am definitely interested as I have a cross who looks way more Belgian than whatever it is he's crossed with. But he is of the heavier persuasion, 17hh and as wide as a couch.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

I just looked - What a cutie Jake is!!
That's the type of Belgian I usually see, the big and heavy. Revel is tall and narrow and he's a gold champagne - which I didn't think Belgians could come in? But I could be wrong.


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## Jake and Dai (Aug 15, 2008)

Thanks PunksTank!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

First of all....I have no clue about drafts
But, I assume he's been gelded very early. Early geldings tend to grow taller but stay a bit narrow. 
He was malnourished, no muscle. Once he fills out to where he should be, he'll widen. My Snipper was narrower than my Arab when I bought them. She gained the much needed 300 lbs and turned into the tank she should be.
Color: I don't see golden champagne? I see a flaxen chestnut. Might be my phone...anyway, deep, rich color comes with proper nutrition, also. So I wouldn't worry...just keep doing what you're doing


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## TheLastUnicorn (Jun 11, 2010)

From what these photos show (better photos would be easier to work with), he's a nice looking fella. I think he looks like a typical Belgian to me.

Have you actually used a stick with a level to measure him? There are certainly 18+hh Belgians, some show hitches can get gigantic...

And I know this is picky and everything, but since you brought it up, he isn't a gold champagne - at least not one single photo here makes me think he is. His eyes appear dark, and there are no freckles on him, he also doesn't appear to have a diluted coat - champagnes MUST have gold or green eyes AND freckles, and usually their coat is obviously diluted (golds can mimic Palominos and ambers can mimic Buckskin... But none that I have ever seen look red). Aside from that, I think you are quite correct, I have never heard of champagne in Belgians - from what I understand ALL American Cream Drafts are champagne though (or perhaps it's that they need to be to be papered...). Just a totally useless bit of information there. To me he looks like a flaxen chestnut like most Belgians I have seen.

He is very cute, and looks like he has a great temperment! Looking at the before picture, he is very lucky to have found you!


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Funny I always assumed he was a champagne (maybe not gold?) because he has really light eyes. But he doesn't have freckled skin, he has lavender skin :3
I just ran downstairs and got some pictures of his eyes




















This was him a few years ago, back when I first started driving him when he was healthy and in a summer coat:






















And yes - he has definitely got a personality on him! Much like a puppy dog ^^ I don't really care what color he is, but if he's not champagne it explains his belgian-hood 
I haven't got a stick to measure him with either, just a tape that he wouldn't stand for xD


But what do people think of his conformation?


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

What a beautiful boy! And lucky too, what a shame he got in that condition at the carriage company. Great job getting him back on track.
His hind quarter hip area looks weak. That is what eventually did in two of my Clydes, They couldn't get up off the ground any more.


I had two Belgians, The mare I bought for my Mom to ride and drive, She was about 15.2 and relatively stocky.










Of course she was bred, and her colt was taller and leaner, he topped out at 17+. This photo I think he was about 3.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Aww Taffy they're lovely!! Those are the Belgians I'm used to seeing and I feel like he just looks different, maybe I'm just seeing him different cause he's my baby 
I'm very concerned about that Taffy, about his hind end - is there anything I can do to help prevent that? He's on a special EPSM diet, very high fat and vitamin E.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

I used to ride for a lady who had a Belgian gelding who could have been your guy's clone. He was 18.1hh and, even though he was chubby (all her horses were lol), he was more narrow than her other two Belgian geldings, Bud and Jasper (Bud was 16.3hh and Jasper was 17hh). 

King was even the same lighter flaxen chestnut with pangere that your guy is.

Wish I had pics of King. I have pics of all of her other horses, but not King.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

I don't think there is anything to do about the hips, except take care of them, don't ask him to do anything that might stress them, like pulling something too heavy,. not a cart or anything like that. Don't ask him to pull down brick walls.
And don't let him get too fat, the more weight they have the harder it is for them to get off the ground. 

I found this photo of the Ozark Empire Fair, this is the pair halter class. The horses are all Belgians, except for 4 Clydes down towards the end. Lots of different colors.


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## TheLastUnicorn (Jun 11, 2010)

PunksTank said:


> Funny I always assumed he was a champagne (maybe not gold?) because he has really light eyes. But he doesn't have freckled skin, he has lavender skin :3
> I just ran downstairs and got some pictures of his eyes
> 
> 
> ...


He has neat eyes, but I still don't see champagne in any other trait of his... Not any of the champagne dilutions (red is diluted to gold, bay is diluted to amber, black is diluted to classic (a mousey color), and if there is a double up of dilutions (like with cream, or dun) the coat tends to wind up paler still. 

Here is my DNA tested Amber Cream Champagne (so, in simple terms she is a buckskin with champagne, and we know it for fact because it was confirmed by testing), her coat is ultra pale because of the cream gene paired with the Chamapagne, not all of them are so pale coated, but none are red, bay or black looking, they always have that goldish/champagne tone. 

You can see she has light gold eyes, and her skin is freckled (similar to what we see on Appies)


















You could always have him tested, if he were positive for champagne, I bet there are quite a few people who study horse color genetics who would find him a facinating case, I know I'd be very surprised if DNA test results were positive for champagne with this horse.


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## Weezilla (Aug 3, 2012)

I loff him, PunksTank! Love the pic of you two bareback-what a beautiful head he has!

I know diddley about draft confo, so I'll just suggest that you do what you can to keep him lean but build muscle, especially in the hind end. Walking hills, then working up to trotting, will help build strength, and you might try some ground poles to get him to pick up his legs-walk first over one, then 2, then 3 or more. You can also try trotting one first, the add a pole and gradually more if he's having no trouble negotiating the one. 

Walk poles spaced 2 1/2 to 3 ft apart
Trot poles spaced 4 - 4 1/2 feet apart

Since he's quite heavy on the front end, have you thought about doing some dressage with him? It would help strengthen his hind end, and help him carry more behind. 

Bravo for rescuing him! Looks like you found him in the nick of time - lucky fellow


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Aw, he's such an elegant looking guy and those eyes are stunning .

From what I've seen in draft breeding in recent years, they seem to be going the same way as dogs. There are lines that are bred for shows and nothing else; those horses tend to be taller and less substantial, and then there are the horses bred for work who continue to be broad and thick. You can see the same thing in Percherons and Clydesdales, lots of really tall ones without much bulk and thin legs (relatively speaking) and lots of shorter ones that are still huge and heavy with tree-stump legs.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

He has a steep croup and is straight throught the hock.. but here is the thing.. if this horse worked hard for years and it still sound, my critique is pure BS. Conformation is about structure for soundness for work. Or it should be about structure for soundness for work.

The horse worked. He is still sound. He is a good horse. Phooey on conformation. 

Just sayin'


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Elana, aren't steep croups and straight hocks pretty common in drafts, though? If you look at the pic Taffy Clayton posted, the majority of those drafts have steep croups.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Yes there are various lines in Belgians. If he were in a 6 horse hitch, he'd likely be in the swing team. The lead horses are usually a little smaller with lots of snappy action and the big stout ones are the wheel horses.He is a very nice example of a Belgian.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I have seen some of the lighter colored belgians working draft hitches at the county fair. You get some good food in him and I would be he would dapple up and look amazing! He is a bit more leggy than most I have seen but that means nothing. If he did his rounds in the carriage industry than he probably originated in Amish country and in that case, really all bets are off. I would guess he is pure belgian but a "working" lines one more than a "show lines" horse. Also congrats on your new arrival!


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## MangoRoX87 (Oct 19, 2009)

He's a brick....HOUSE.


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## OliviaMyee (Jul 31, 2012)

GOOD conformation has the conformation attributes for his breed. 
. Bigger shoulder
. More upright shoulder
. More of a longer back
. In the pics of him in good shape he has lovely muscle and a great weight
. Heavier Build
. Set hocks
. I like the front legs i dont see major rotations
. Front legs are camped under
. Neck is thick but thats common in the bigger breeds


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## OliviaMyee (Jul 31, 2012)

. He is built for pulling his so his front end will be bigger and more muscled than the hind end. 
. He wont excel at dressage obviously, and that will be hard for him, so just remember what his made for


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Thanks everyone! Weird I haven't gotten any e-mail notifications about the rest of these posts.
I like learning about conformation, so thanks for the explanations. Cool to know about the different types of breeding lines for Belgians.

Thanks also for the exercise ideas to keep him in shape. I took him for our first very short trail ride the other day - he seriously enjoyed that! But then of course, 2 days later, he came up lame  He got a stupid abscess. So no more trail rides till he's well past better. 

So I get that he's not a champagne - but while I was washing him yesterday I noticed he does have freckled skin, just not on his face? Anywhere else I could see skin the skin was freckled.
Does that have to do with the pangare? Or is it something else? Just curious for learning's sake!


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## Left Hand Percherons (Feb 1, 2011)

OliviaMyee said:


> . He is built for pulling his so his front end will be bigger and more muscled than the hind end.


Not true. The power comes from the hind end in pulling. That's why hind leg conformation is so critical in pulling horses.

His coloring is a straight up chestnut with a flaxen mane and tail. More commonly called a blond. His build of taller, leaner plus blond is where the breed has moved to in the hitch horses. He is not of farm (too tall, too lean, finer boned, too thin) or pulling (too thin, too lightly muscled-not just unfit, lack of bone, lack of mass plus uncommon to ever see a blond puller) breeding.

Set him up with his head up not eating for some pictures.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Punk, did you know that for years Canada produced the finest Belgians in the world. Back in the earlier beginning of PMU, people bred the mares to the cheapest stallions around and killed the resultant foal. A Saskatchewan Minister (political) imported a very fine Belgian stallion and offered it's services for a token fee. Eventually this lead to Canada leading the field in Belgian breeding. This lead to the export of many fine stallions back to Belgium and other european countries. For years there was a Manitoba 6 hitch that showed very successly. One couldn't help but marvel at the size of the hindquarters on the wheel team, as round as a MacIntosh apple.


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## TheLastUnicorn (Jun 11, 2010)

The skin mottling you are seeing might be caused by sabino... While he doesn't have much "obvious" sabino, the fact he has facial white might be indicating he does actually carry some form of sabino. Or it might be something else entirely, maybe pangare... Not really sure... But his lack of golden (or diluted) coat, and the fact the freckles you are seeing are not also on his muzzle/eyes makes me dead sure he is not champagne.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

TheLastUnicorn said:


> The skin mottling you are seeing might be caused by sabino... While he doesn't have much "obvious" sabino, the fact he has facial white might be indicating he does actually carry some form of sabino. Or it might be something else entirely, maybe pangare... Not really sure... But his lack of golden (or diluted) coat, and the fact the freckles you are seeing are not also on his muzzle/eyes makes me dead sure he is not champagne.


That's really neat! I thought with Sabino they needed some white on their legs too? His legs are white - but I always thought it was Pangare that caused that? Since his lighter coloring comes up to his belly and throat and muzzle. But it fades in, not a bold line like sabinos. I also didn't think Belgians could carry sabino, but I could be wrong!


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## TheLastUnicorn (Jun 11, 2010)

There is some thought that it is a form of sabino which causes facial white... I don't believe they have proven it though. You are quite right, I don't think his white legs have any sabino white, but it if is true that sabino causes facial white who knows... I think I did read somewhere that there are some obviously sabino Belgians, but that's sort of a different topic. 

I don't know enough about pangare to know if it can also cause that mottled skin too, but I suppose it might.


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