# debates about breeding



## mybabysewanka (Feb 15, 2009)

I am very sorry if some one gets aggravated with me but this is a new thread about debates in breeding.. As a forum reader in the breeding section I have seen quite a few people get bashed or topics on breeding go completely off track with hateful words and remarks about breeding horses.


I understand that we all in the equine industry view breeding highly different, and ones expertise should be answered to someones quetions, and I dont think they should be answered in a negative way.. So hence why I created this thread for all of you that like to debate breeding then debate it here please. I just find it a hassel to try to read questions try to answer them in a professional way, then come back a day later and it be all negative. Granted I have my opinions on breeding as well as everyone else on this forum, but I just dont feel the need to discuss them. So for those of you that do again please post here... Thank you all for your time and have a wonderful evening.


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## close2prfct (Mar 9, 2009)

I could not have said it better myself I almost thought about not coming back to HF after I posted a question regarding breeding. The only thing I found out is how rude and disrespectful some can be, yes everyone has their own opinion but going off track and ridiculing people or bashing their beloved horse is uncalled for. Hopefully if they want to argue breeding they will post it here.


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## Joshie (Aug 26, 2008)

It is neither mean or negative to ask a person to carefully consider all the implications of a proposal as important as breeding a horse. You might also wish to notice that many of those making breeding proposals are adolescents. I think you're expecting a bit much if you think that such debates will happen only in this thread. If you're only interested in "advice" that green lights everything you wish to do then why are you asking for online advice?

One thing I appreciate about HF is that people do NOT speak to others in a disrespectful tone. They do not bash one another. Disagreeing is different from bashing.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

Joshie - well said. I agree 100%.


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

I think lots of people bash others on here and their horses to say it doesn't happen is sticking ones head in the sand. If someone wants to tell another they shouldn't breed thats fine but if someone else wants to tell them they can that should also be fine. Why should one have the right to state an opinion and someone else be told in any way they don't? Either you beleive everyone has an opinion or you beleive everyone should think one way.

Personally I'd love to see 3 million less horses in the country but someones wants should never trump anothers rights.


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## mybabysewanka (Feb 15, 2009)

county said:


> I think lots of people bash others on here and their horses to say it doesn't happen is sticking ones head in the sand. If someone wants to tell another they shouldn't breed thats fine but if someone else wants to tell them they can that should also be fine. Why should one have the right to state an opinion and someone else be told in any way they don't? Either you beleive everyone has an opinion or you beleive everyone should think one way.
> 
> Personally I'd love to see 3 million less horses in the country but someones wants should never trump anothers rights.


 
Exactly why I started this thread.. So everyone can voice their opinions... I believe people SHOULD hear the good, bad, and the ugly, but to try and completely distract people from what they in their hearts want to do is wrong. But when someone asks a simple question I think their questions should be answered, tell them what aspects of breeding you know, again the good, bad, the ugly.. but when it comes to arguments such as degrading someones choice to breed it should come here... That all...


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## close2prfct (Mar 9, 2009)

County that is exactly the way I see things. One person's opinion is no better than the next but it always ends up in some heated argument. Makes me feel like banging my head on the wall. The things I have seen said to people about their horses is like telling a mom her child is ugly..you just don't do it. 
I think if a person wants to breed their horse and they understand the time, money and risks involved it is their business period.


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

I have to laugh at the people who say you shouldn't breed a horse because some day you may not be able to afford them. They don't do if someday they can afford their horse either but they still have them. Under that line of thought no one should ever have a horse, their not immune to not being able to afford one.


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## alldun (Jan 18, 2009)

The biggest problem is too many people are breeding their horses with their heart. They are unable to see their horse trough the rose coloured glasses and the glaring faults or faultiness of their decision they are about to make.
Having someone step up and point out the wrongness of their decision is not a bad thing. Nobody is saying 'stop loving your horse because she's got this and that wrong with her'~most people are saying that allowing that horse to reproduce is not a good idea because of those faults.
If you consider it likened to having someone proofread your project and go about giving you advice instead of personalizing it, it can be taken into hefty consideration where people can realise that breeding that particular horse is not a good idea.

Ultimately-people can take the advise, get huffy and do what they want anyways or actually learn some valuable information.


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

I agree and see many horses I personally wouldn't breed and think theres some that wouldn't breed what I do. Not everyone wants the same thing and thats good not bad. And the end result isn't the same importance to some as to others. Also good not bad.


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## weefoal (Apr 4, 2009)

Im pretty new here and yes I was taken aback by some of the rude responses that are posted over and over regarding breeding.

I have learned over the years the best way to educate someone is not by attacking them. Once you do that the other person stops listening. Its not what you say its how you say it! And no Im not saying to make everything butterflies and roses but you dont have to constantly beat someone over the head either. 

We do breed our horses and we do it very selectively. I have a waiting list for foals and we show and promote our farm. And no I dont breed for 20 foals a year the most we have ever had in one year is 5. 

My best advice for someone wanting to get into breeding horses is to watch some marestare online cameras. YOu will see the best and the worst of what happens. 

Foaling season is something I so look forward to and dread at the same time. Its the single most stressful time of the year for me. Im always so relieved when its over. 

Our goal is to improve the breed and to produce the very best horse we can. Now having said that you can breed best to best and still get mediocre. Its not an easy goal like some think it is. There is so much research that goes into planning a breeding.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

I want to say that I participate in number of forums (related and non-related to horses), and HF is the most nice and polite one. Even the critique section 99% of the time is very nice. 

I agree with Joshie that "disagreeing" does NOT mean "being rude". OK, some people are more straight than others, but in the end they are free to bring up their own opinion (in a nice way). 

Breeding (whether horses, dogs, cats, etc.) involves the LIVE animals, not cars, not PCs, not garbage cans. So the breeder IS responsible for what (s)he is doing and (in principle) the FUTURE of the live creature (s)he created. That's just my opinion I stand. 

I have NO PROBLEM at all with the breeder knowing what (s)he is doing (and I know there is a number of such breeders on this forum). I also know the local person, who crossed her nice grade mare couple times and her foals went to loving homes (also local, so she still checking on them and all), but unfortunately too many times it's not a case.


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## close2prfct (Mar 9, 2009)

Same here I was taken aback at the rude comments and what makes it even worse those doing it don't see they are being rude..however the mods do because they end up closing the thread..


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## carriedenaee (Apr 17, 2008)

There are some rude remarks here and there. When you really read every post though, most people are mearly thinking of the horse first and foremost. I got alot of remarks about having barbed wire fencing. I didnt take it hard though i was glad they were concerned about my horses. Lets me know people here are real horse lovers and not alot of talk. It has alot to do with the frame of mind you are in. Reading type without the advantage of hearing a person's 'tone' is a scary thing. I am in customer service and there are alot of times they take my emails in a bad way because there isnt a verbal cue to tell them i am just concerned and trying to lead them in the right direction to correct their situation.

So I would say that while some on here are first to bash someone with the "you dont know what your doing" and " you cant do that, are you crazy??", most everybody on here is really tryin to keep people pointed in the right direction with their horses and actually give some awesome advice!! Just keep thinking positive when you read and you could pick up some excellent pointers here and ther. No matter how much you know, youll never know enough and someone else will always know more!
sorry kinda long


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## mybabysewanka (Feb 15, 2009)

weefoal said:


> Im pretty new here and yes I was taken aback by some of the rude responses that are posted over and over regarding breeding.
> 
> I have learned over the years the best way to educate someone is not by attacking them. Once you do that the other person stops listening. Its not what you say its how you say it! And no Im not saying to make everything butterflies and roses but you dont have to constantly beat someone over the head either.
> 
> ...


I agree with you on the marestare thing... I only have 3 horses 2 being mares and 1 gelding and I only breed my paint mare, because she is what I look for in a quality mare, the other one not so much so she will never be a breeder.... I also think marestare is an amazing way to get educated as well, not only can you watch mares foal even if it goes terribly wrong but it gives you the chance to talk to certain ranches and visit their message boards and get loads of information...


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

All I have to say is people have their own lives, their own money, their own horses, and their own time. What you do with it is nobody's business. But when someone asks a question, it needs to be answered, even if the outcome is bad, or negative. I realize that in all tall over the world, children are starving, wether thy are human, horse, dog, cat, polar bear, or what ever. If your opinion is to "rescue" something that is being starved, rather than to create another, your thinking in the right direction. BUT my own opinion to breed is not for anther's breeding quality. Sure, no pedigree, or anything special... but the foal's disposition would be great. Bombproof to be exact. Then the "attacks" start. AGAIN, its someone else's opinion, and everybody needs to respect it, wether it right or wrong. 

I'm not saying lets pick a a "pretty" mare and breed it to a pretty palomino (thank you JDI for the refence =p), you need to WATCH what your doing. I've seen a lot, breeding good and bad, but it all comes down to what is "right or wrong". Nothing is "right" anymore. I've always wanted to breed a mare, and just one little foal, even if its not pure, not papered, but still, it OUR farms one and only foal. Again, this arises arguemts "What if you have to sell, the foals survial will be questioned!" - I cannot tell the future, but I can tell you that I would sell my house, AND my car before I sell my ponies. I might not be making ny sense, because I haven't slept in a few days, but I hope it tells some people my opinion. Some may agree, but most will probably oppose. Oh well, my opinion, I'm glad you have your own.

Anny <3


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

carriedenaee said:


> I got alot of remarks about having barbed wire fencing. I didnt take it hard though i was glad they were concerned about my horses.


Yes, I had similar experience too (not the barbered wire though).  And if at first you feel little hm-hm upset then after thinking about it you realize that people are in fact concerned about your horse(s) and are not indifferent. My local horse forum is often much more -straight- than HF. Lol!


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Speaking in defense of the HF and as a moderator, we try to keep as many threads as possible on target. There are some threads that become very heated and there are many members who are so passionate about certain topics that they can't see the other side of the coin.

We moderators keep a close eye to those certain topics and need to be vigilant to the direction those threads take. Usually, they are breeding, Natural Horsemanship (Parelli in particular), slaughter, and some others.

We try our best to keeping the HF civil and informative. We also rely on our membership to inform us of problems. It takes a lot of effort on the Administrator and the moderators to keep our forum a place where our members are happy to participate.

I hope that everyone who comes here can be comfortable with the direction we try to keep the HF to.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

I don't want to add anything other than to say to ILMP that I was not referring to her horses in any way at all in the other thread regarding a palomino horse.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

I have to say that I honestly don't think HF is a rude community at all. They are alot of people (me included) that have certian veiws and we try very hard to get other people to see our views but try not to be rude about it, even though some might say we are rude, that is not our intention. 

I also have to say that debates are healthy, we just have to decided to handle them like adults!!


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

So what exactly were you refering to JD It about the yellow horse? You seem to say people should express their opinion as long as its the same as yours anything else you then should make remarks about the person or their horses.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Not at all. I am all for everyone expressing their opinions... along with that, I express mine. If a person doesn't agree that is all well and good with me, it is not affecting my life. 
I offer opinions that I feel are worthwhile mentioning.

Regarding the palomino comment, I was just saying that I'm not one to say "ooh, pretty mare, breed it with a pretty palomino stallion to see what color you get!" and ILMP thought I was referring to her horse - I was not, and I was informing her of that. (Palomino was the first "pretty" color into my head.) Rather, I encourage responsible breeding, something beyond wanting a foal just because. 
Nothing more, nothing less.

To keep my sanity and so the mods don't have to write me up, I'm going to take my leave from this topic  

Happy debating!!


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Oops! Time for a moderator to throw in the *Conscientious Etiquette Policy *reminder. Please do your best to stay on track and refrain from name calling or character attacks as they will only lead to infractions and closed or removed threads.


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

Seems to be a double standard in that area. One can slam what someone does and knows and call it " their opinion " while the next is called an attack.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

The only thing that I have ever seen go on in this section (breeding) is people debating about resopsible breeding. 

Some people, ( Me, JDI, and others) have higher standards on what should be breed. Now I speak for myself here, sometimes I do think people that just want to breed to breed are wrong, in fact most of the time I do, but those same people also think I am wrong for thinking so. 

I like to think I'm a pretty realistic person, and I see the downfalls on over breeding. It effects me first hand. I also know that we still need new foals and that not everyone can afford a world champion bred horse. However we need a happy medium, but before that can happen people need to stop breeding everything that has a set of...well you know what I mean.

Over breeding of horses is what sends hundreds of thousands of horses to slaughter every year. And we call ourselves horse lovers? 

I really don't believe that we should stop breeding horses all together but I do think there should be conditions..

1) Every stallion should pass an inspection before he is able to keep his manhood.

2)Every animal that is bred should be registered and the resulting foal should be registered as well.

3) Breeders should have a limit on how many foals they should be allowed to have, say 10? That is still lots! We had one foal this year, two last year and one the year before...that was plenty!

I know it sounds like a pretty communist thing to have set rules about breeding, but we honestly wouldn't need them if people would just think ahead before they decided to breed that not so attractive mare that they have out in the pasture...


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

I also have very high standards on what I breed and think theres way to many hgorses in the country especially poor quality ones. But I don't think anyones right to breed what they want should be taken away or limited. It goes against everything our form of gov. stands for and to many people have given their life to protect our rights.

Over breeding sends horses to slaughter? I've seen no evidence of that at all. The demand for meat dertimes whats slaughtered if no one wants to eat it doesn't matter how many there are none get slaughtered. We don't slaughter cattle because theres to many we do it because theres a demand for beef. All species of livestock are the same.

Limit how many animals one can breed? Sorry its called free enterprise and I'm very fond of it.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

county said:


> I also have very high standards on what I breed and think theres way to many hgorses in the country especially poor quality ones. But I don't think anyones right to breed what they want should be taken away or limited. It goes against everything our form of gov. stands for and to many people have given their life to protect our rights.
> 
> Over breeding sends horses to slaughter? I've seen no evidence of that at all. The demand for meat dertimes whats slaughtered if no one wants to eat it doesn't matter how many there are none get slaughtered. We don't slaughter cattle because theres to many we do it because theres a demand for beef. All species of livestock are the same.
> 
> Limit how many animals one can breed? Sorry its called free enterprise and I'm very fond of it.


I am done wasting my time on you, I really am.


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

LOL God forbid anyone not think the way you do about something.


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## KenyiGirl (Apr 10, 2009)

county said:


> But I don't think anyones right to breed what they want should be taken away or limited. It goes against everything our form of gov. stands for and to many people have given their life to protect our rights.
> 
> Over breeding sends horses to slaughter? I've seen no evidence of that at all. The demand for meat dertimes whats slaughtered if no one wants to eat it doesn't matter how many there are none get slaughtered. We don't slaughter cattle because theres to many we do it because theres a demand for beef.


I agree with the first part of the statement. If you take away the right to breed freely, everyone will be affected, not just the BYBs, but the responsible breeders and barns too. 
I don't know whether overbreeding _sends_ horses to slaughter, but it tends to be the mediocre ones who go first, not the good sound flashy ones. So, by breeding a mediocre horse, and probably getting a mediocre foal, could be potentially dangerous for the foal.


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

Oh for sure the less value a horse has the better the odds it goes to kill. But the odds any given horse sells for slaughter are very remote we slaughter less then 1% of the horse population each year in the U.S. Even at its peak we only did 5%.


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## ChrisM (Apr 6, 2009)

I breed to my standard, most foals have a buyer before the breeding even takes place. That said I agree a lot of people breed out of emotion, wanting a "baby" from sweet suzy in the pasture. She may be long, hard headed as a mule and all for hooves point different directions. Big headed and eyes so close she looks cross eyed, but for some reason they want another just like her, except maybe painted or palamino? Its their choice, their animal and their responsibility to make sure that colt has a sound foundation and home.

To the lady from Canada,

Who is going to set the standard on these breeding stallions and mares? People in the QH world like several different horses. Show, cow, and race bred horses. Are you qualified to make this decision? A perfect horse for all? I doubt it, we have been breeding horses for thousands of years and still have hundreds of breeds and off shoots of breeding. Check your own horse, what horses were mixed to create that breed?

So now you think others should be stopped from progressing what THEY like in a horse because its not your cup of tea? If you can dictate who breeds horses I should be able to teases riders who wear helmets, after all that's not my cup of tea!


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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

county said:


> But the odds any given horse sells for slaughter are very remote we slaughter less then 1% of the horse population each year in the U.S. Even at its peak we only did 5%.


1% is still too many horses that are being killed for no reason. Think about it, say there are only 1 million horses in the U.S. That means that 10,000 horses are being killed every year. 5% of 1 million is 50,000. Thats a lot of horses dying because people aren't being responsible with what horses they are breeding.

I think the point that is being made here is that there are too many people breeding their horses just because they can. A lot of people need to take a step back and look at their situation before they start reproducing animals that shouldn't reproduce.


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## close2prfct (Mar 9, 2009)

Horses have different conformational requirements just as dogs it is ridiculous and biased to say a great dane should conform to the same standards as a chihuahua. I do believe horses should be sound body and mind before breeding, but if their neck is a little short, their hip a little big or their nose a little long if it does not interfere with the horses ability to perform the job it is required to do whether it be show, cutting, barrel racing, jumping or whatever it is totally up to the owner if they want to take the risks involved in breeding. 
I also believe people should have a large degree of health knowledge about horses and basic vetting skills, because when it's time for baby and the vet is unavailable you better know what to do if there are complications have a vet kit handy and be ready to put your hands where you never thought they would ever go. Now that is my opinion but like everyone else I am entitled right???


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

There aren't any horses slaughtered for noi reason there killed for food same as other species of livestock. Not everyone wants to eat them nor should they but thats no different then any other species.

BTW if to many horses are the reason some are slaughtered then theres been to many since theres been horses thats how long they've been eaten.


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## weefoal (Apr 4, 2009)

I do know in Europe stallions must pass a stallion inspection in order to sire foals. They put them through movement tests etc. Not a bad idea in my mind  

We will not breed a stallion that has not proven himself in the show ring. While they dont always have National Champion titles (one is a nat champion top ten) they do have show records where the judges agree that this stallion is breeding quality. We also put a lot of time and money into putting show records on our fillies before they are breeding age. 

I know there are quite a few breeders that say they dont need to show their animals and cry politics etc. To me that is excuses and a serious breeder does show what they produce.


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

If one wants to show thats fine but I hardly think a " serious " breeder has to. I have a freind that breeds 20 or so mares a year and has never shown a horse in his life. He raises, trains, and uses ranch horses on his 6000 acre ranch to help work 3000 head of cattle. His horses are in very high demand on ranches around the country and he uses them every day at home. He puts a great deal of time and thought into what he produces. Not a serious breeder because he doesn't show? I hardly think so.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

weefoal said:


> I know there are quite a few breeders that say they dont need to show their animals and cry politics etc. To me that is excuses and a serious breeder does show what they produce.


That is a rather blanket statement and I have to disagree. While showing may be prevalent on the east coast and, perhaps, CA, I believe that in the US the majority of breeding goes on at ranches much as county wrote. 

I know of quite a few that breed upwards of 20 per year for the purpose of use not show. Granted, that pertains to stock horses (AQHA, and APHA as an example) but they represent the highest amount of registered foals per year.


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

At the last Billings sale I was at a grade ranch broke gelding sold for $8100. There were a whole lot of reg. " show " horses that brought less.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

iridehorses said:


> I know of quite a few that breed upwards of 20 per year for the purpose of use not show. Granted, that pertains to stock horses (AQHA, and APHA as an example) but they represent the highest amount of registered foals per year.


iride, I don't think those 20 have poor conformation.  To work on ranch the horse must have an ability and I believe certain build/conformation. Otherwise it just won't be able to handle that (am I correct here?). And as you mentioned -registered- foals. 

My (foundation) qh is from such a ranch (in Canada), and she has really nice bloodlines for cow work (from what I was told by number of people including this forum  ). However, I'm not sure sport people will find her very attractive though, because she's just 14'3'' and stocky built, but that's what she is. What I'm saying is I'm not sure setting standards is an easy way to go. Again even among qh foundation ones are very different from appendix, so who'll set the standard?  

However I do think BYB producing gazillion of foals (some if not the most ending up at the auction) or those breeders mixing appy/pony/tb/tw to get something conformationally sick looking but say having fancy color should be panished. Most of such "breeders" generally doesn't even care about vet, farrier, and training of the babies, so the quality and health conditions of the horses are just there to prove it. The problem though is it's pretty hard to do anything even with AC.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

county said:


> At the last Billings sale I was at a grade ranch broke gelding sold for $8100. There were a whole lot of reg. " show " horses that brought less.


County, I'm sorry but there are ALWAYS exceptions. Do you see grade horses sold very high all the time at the local auctions? I don't (and we have 3 auctions around). Nice build -registered- horses bring WAY more money 99.99% cases.


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

No grades don't always bring high prices and neither do reg. horses. The ones that bring the most at the auctions I go to around the country are the really well bred, those with a solid show record and or the really well trained, grade or reg doesn't matter.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

ChrisM-it would be the registries reasponsibility to select breeding quality stallions. There are registries that do that now, just not the stock registires...and what is the most common breed to go for kill? STOCK!

ChrisM you think what you want to think and I will think what I want to think. I don't believe in a cummunist world, however people are not going to make MATURE, REASPONISLBE decisions until something is done to punish them for making IMMATURE, IRREASPONSIBLE ones. And it seems no matter how much they call themselves horse loves the fact the thousands of horse get killed needless each year is not punishment enough for them. 

All you backyard breeders out there, keep breeding your horses if you want but know that you, and others like you are guilty of sending horses to slaughter!


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## ChrisM (Apr 6, 2009)

Some of you are saying that horses should be shown before breeding. Please explain to me exactly how this would work? Okay, so you start in a halter class, would they need to be a grand champion and superior halter horse? After the halter class I guess you would have to work hard and fast to get them ready for the track? What would their SI need to be to qualify as possible breeding stock? After that I'd guess they would need to atleast win a few futurities or would it be necessary to be world champions in other events like jumping, Western pleasure, dressage, roping, barrels ect... They would need to do all this before breeding police would allow a breeding to take place.

What makes a great halter horse does not make even a good race horse, what makes a great race horse does not make a good cutting horse. What makes a great cutting horse won't make a jumper. Exceptions to every rule of course. If we set one standard to a breed of horse it won't work!


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

county said:


> those with a solid show record and or the really well trained, grade or reg doesn't matter.


I don't argue with that.  But many horses do not have show records (for the number of reasons), and that's when the confo and papers come in place.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

ChrisM said:


> Some of you are saying that horses should be shown before breeding.


Actually most responses I've seen (including those from Fehr and JDI) say it's OK to breed a horse, which doesn't have significant show records as long as it has great confo and good blood lines (although I don't quite remember about 2nd one). :lol:


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## ChrisM (Apr 6, 2009)

That's why I wrote "some" I've already said that not all horses should be bred and that the majority breed out of emotion versus the quality of what the foal will be. What I don't agree with though is "breed wardens". Each organization has a breed standard, yet for example a QH that is cleaning up in the halter ring in most cases won't do well at cow events. In general halter judges like big heavy bulky horses, those horses have trouble getting out of their own way in timed events.

You want to change what people are breeding for? Tell the judges to judge by the standard already set.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I try to stay out of breeding threads because I believe that people should be able to consider breeding a horse without being slammed for it. I do believe conformation, health, finances and the end plan for the foal should all be taken into consideration. But I believe the overall decision should be to the owner of the horse. 

Now, that being said, there are way too many people out there that are taking what they consider a pretty mare and breeding it to stallion that lives 4 houses down, not even caring that the stud is a poor quality, bad tempered mediocre animal. How to stop that type of situation, I don't know. This is not just a horse related issue. There are tons and tons of people out there doing the same thing with dogs. They are overbreeding and bringing out poor quality unhealthy dogs, you have puppy mills and everything else. And if you were to buy a pure bred dog, you may get slammed for not going to a local shelter. I have a shelter dog and a pure AKC registered dog. It's my right to choose the animal I want.

I have horses that are registered and nice quality. I have horses that are not registered and not the finest quality, what they lack in confirmation they make up in attitude and willingness and since they were purchased merely for pleasure riding a piece of paper saying they are breed worthy didnt matter to me. Of course they are gelded and will were never planned for breeding purposes.

I also think that standards for breeding should be set in place only with the intention of preserving the breed standards. I am a huge quarter horse fan, yet in my opinion, the "show quality" QHs look more like TBs to me now. I like the big butted thick bodies strong QH of the past. I also have a small understanding of the inspection process that warmbloods go through in order to acheive registration but to me, they are just fancy mutts. So... I have no idea where I was headed with this rant but I've lost my train of thought... 

This is a very interesting thread though. I hope that it can remain open for discussion.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Well said Jenny (even with a little Attention Deficit Disorder at the end)


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

I don't think your horse has to have a solid show background UNLESS you are breeding for performance (Show). 
Someone said you can't compare a great dane to a chihuahua (Sp?) and expect them to have the same conformation. Of course not. What is important though, is to make sure the Great Dane has the best possible conformation and dispositions as you can. 
If you are on a ranching facility, obviously your horse does not need to have titles in pleasure. You want to breed for a horse with good cow sense and legs that will hold up. 
The breeding standards change for every breed and every discipline. Regardless though, it is of most benefit to the breeder and to the horse/breed that the sire and dam be complimentary of each other and both proven in their discipline. If you want good ranch horses, you breed together good ranch horses because event though it is not garunteed, your chances are better than breeding together a shetland and a TB. 

It is your choice to breed. I will not argue that. What most of us breeding bullies want though, is that you make informed choices. 

Personally, I would love to see stallions getting approved and all horses being in a registry. Breeding regulations would be great too. I don't see it happening anytime soon though. 

As far as grade vs registered, I'm not going to say that a registered horse is better than a grade horse. I will however say that to many people, registration (mostly in the show world) is very important. If they have two identical horses...one grade, one reg, they will go with the reg one. 

Again, if youre not showing, obviously you don't need to be registered...It does give more value if you have to sell though.

Of Topic: County, were you at the Billings auction in Montana or is there a Billings in MN?


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## JMMarroq (Apr 4, 2009)

One time I posted something (on another site) about what possible colors my mare's foal could be; the sire was a black tobiano and the mare a palomino tobiano, and all I got was horrible feedback about how I was a backyard breeder, we don't have time to tell you what colors your foal can be just because your lazy, and yadayadayada. I was shocked at how people just assumed I was a backyard breeder, because of the way I worded how I wasn't sure what color my mare was. On her papers it says palomino, but she is a very dark palomino, almost chestnut.

I was soo angry, because both of the parents are registered and they came from a VERY well known breeder. She is also our only pregnant mare, because we breed for QUALITY not QUANTITY 

Some people just need to not be rude, even if you do think what someone is breeding isn't right...don't go accusing people, just INFORM them. I would have been fine if someone had kindly been like why don't you know what color your mare is, why are you breeding, etc. I just get angry when people blow up at you when they don't even know you...but that's the internet


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## mybabysewanka (Feb 15, 2009)

farmpony84 said:


> I try to stay out of breeding threads because I believe that people should be able to consider breeding a horse without being slammed for it. I do believe conformation, health, finances and the end plan for the foal should all be taken into consideration. But I believe the overall decision should be to the owner of the horse.
> 
> Now, that being said, there are way too many people out there that are taking what they consider a pretty mare and breeding it to stallion that lives 4 houses down, not even caring that the stud is a poor quality, bad tempered mediocre animal. How to stop that type of situation, I don't know. This is not just a horse related issue. There are tons and tons of people out there doing the same thing with dogs. They are overbreeding and bringing out poor quality unhealthy dogs, you have puppy mills and everything else. And if you were to buy a pure bred dog, you may get slammed for not going to a local shelter. I have a shelter dog and a pure AKC registered dog. It's my right to choose the animal I want.
> 
> ...


I completely agree 110%


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

Alright, I not even reading anyone's responce here other than Chris M (I did read Farmpony's and it was a great read!) 

Chris, I do understand that there is diffent discplines that people want to show they QH's in and I don't disagree with that. A good stallion is a good stallion weather it is suited for Halter, Cutting, Western Pleasure, etc, etc, etc. I understand that the horses that excell in these diccplines all have a different builds, but overall, they have relativily the same conformation. 

It's horses like this http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_uT-i4wrm9Ec/SKiglJ9y5mI/AAAAAAAACD0/pojl3NT86B4/s400/fuglypainthorse.jpg That are good for nothing! This horse is a stallion...I mean come on, are you kidding me!?

I also think that breed wardens are somthing that we shouldn't have, even though I suggested it. The reason I suggested it is because so many people don't understand what breedig a fugly mare to a fugly stud results in. Would it be better to say that their should be "breeders courses?" To educate potential breeders on disired conformation traits and the pro and cons of breeding horses. The consequneces of breeding bad horses, etc, etc, etc. 

I also understand that the market is different in the states then it is in Canada, you guys aren't seeing what I see her. I go to a local auction occasionally where backyard breeders will bring in their crop of foals, every single one of them going for meat (they are still slaughterd here) 

I also worked for a man training horses that had a "Flashy Paint Stallion," that had less that medicore papers, a bad temperment and terrible conformation, he had a band of 30 mares all registerd but again all with terrible conformation. Everyone of his foals went for kill, he breed those horses strictly to kill. 

I have SEEN first hand what happens to backyard foals, have you guys? Ever been to a kill factory and seen how it operates, I have?! You all think that I am just a breeding snob, nowhere near, but I have seen the suffering that these poor horses go thru because of selfish backyard breeders. I am passionate about this because I am passtionate about horses! Because I care for them I will do whatever I can to stop more unwanted foals from entering the world. Not because I want to tell someone what to do or how to do it!


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

FehrGroundRanch said:


> Would it be better to say that their should be "breeders courses?" To educate potential breeders on disired conformation traits and the pro and cons of breeding horses. The consequneces of breeding bad horses, etc, etc, etc.


My vet clinic actually offers a course a few times a year on breeding fundamentals. What to look for in horses of different breeds and what not. I keep saying I am going to attend one. It's free to their clients. They send out flyers. They hold all sorts of clinics, on lameness, sports injuries, etc. nothing on training - all health related....


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## weefoal (Apr 4, 2009)

> He raises, trains, and uses ranch horses on his 6000 acre ranch to help work 3000 head of cattle.


To me that would be the same thing and yes that is a serious breeder that takes the time to train the horses etc. So to clarify a serious breeder either shows or takes the time to train the horses to have a job. 

What I am talking about are farms that produce upwards of 20 foals per year and the entire herd and foals have no training and there is not thought put into what would produce the best horse. No goals etc. 

What you show in depends on what kind of horse you are trying to produce. That goal is set by the breeder. But I get tired of people using excuses for not doing anything with their horse and then wondering why they dont sell. They dont show them, they dont train them or even handle the foals. 

I invest thousands of dollars in showing my horses. And untold hours of labor and sweat. (we show all of our own) If I was taking horses on the show circuit that keep getting the gate then I would have to seriously rethink what I am doing. While I love showing for the most part, believe me there are days when I would rather not go clip horses and pay hundreds of dollars to show. The best thing a barn blind person can do is take their horse out and let the judges decide. I have seen it be an eye opener for many people. But then it only opens peoples eyes if they can be open to the idea that the horse that they love may not be the best horse to breed and reproduce. 

Not every horse is meant to breed or should be bred. Doesnt mean the horse has less value or is less loved.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

That is a great idea Farmpony, but maybe it should be a mandatory thing before you can have a breeding farm or facility?!


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## ChrisM (Apr 6, 2009)

I personally would not mind each association having a online breeders course. After you successfully passed the course you get a breeders number. Without that number you could not register that foal. Thing is ALL associations like money!!! And by requiring a course they would lose tons of it. I don't see that happening.

The slaughter house thing were just going to have to disagree on. All though I feel for those animals I feel more for those left in our desert to fend for themselves. But that's a whole other topic.


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## close2prfct (Mar 9, 2009)

Slaughter isn't the issue here it's attitudes toward breeding that is.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

farmpony84 said:


> . So... I have no idea where I was headed with this rant but I've lost my train of thought...


Iride was right. Bet a carrot floated by.

To get serious I DO believe a STALLION at least needs to prove himself before breeding. I have almays been dead set against people breeding their 2 year old colt " just to see what he can do".

I remember when my boy was 3 and I had someone pester me to breed their mare. It told them then that until he goes to at least one under saddle show...no breeding no way. At that time he had already secured placings on the line but I was not satisfied.

I also feel (mainly I guess because this is more of an English/sport thing) that both sexes should be inspected by an inspector in the registry the horse is being registered/approved in. So if I sound harsh when I make a post on breeding I have seen too much of the "lets see what happens thing". 

My main beef in the breeding world is actually with many registries and some of the requirements/rules they expound so best not to start any threads about any of the sport registries here..:twisted: .LOL


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Did someone say carrot?


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

farmpony84 said:


> Did someone say carrot?


Now why did I know that would get a rise from you!!!! :lol:


No ADD there.........LOL


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## Joshie (Aug 26, 2008)

farmpony84 said:


> Did someone say carrot?


Talk about making a thread go downhill, BAD OLD farmpony.


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

I've been in slaughter plants, hauled livestock to them,. and work in them. Nothing pretty about them but people eat meat, always have, and thats not going to change so slaughter isn't going to stop nor should it for any logical reason I can think of.

While I'd love to see every animal bred be what I think they should be thats not real either nor should it be. As long as the animal is cared for properly thats all that really matters to me. And I've seen no evidence that only low quality horses are slaughtered theres even been a Kentucky Derby winner go for meat and many many horses with show records. The vast majority of slaughter horses are young, fat healthy ones same as any other species of livestock. Every horse could be well bred, great conformation, anything you want but the demand for meat doesn't change people still are going to eat.


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## close2prfct (Mar 9, 2009)

county said:


> I've been in slaughter plants, hauled livestock to them,. and work in them. Nothing pretty about them but people eat meat, always have, and thats not going to change so slaughter isn't going to stop nor should it for any logical reason I can think of.
> 
> While I'd love to see every animal bred be what I think they should be thats not real either nor should it be. As long as the animal is cared for properly thats all that really matters to me. And I've seen no evidence that only low quality horses are slaughtered theres even been a Kentucky Derby winner go for meat and many many horses with show records. The vast majority of slaughter horses are young, fat healthy ones same as any other species of livestock. Every horse could be well bred, great conformation, anything you want but the demand for meat doesn't change people still are going to eat.


You may not have a lot agree with you county lol but on this I do. Just because in our culture it is unacceptable to eat horse meat in many others it is or even more so over beef, swine or chicken. As long as there is a demand for horse meat there will somewhere in the world be people who breed for that sole purpose as we do our cattle and hogs. 
I've been to sales more times than I can count and the majority of the horses I see there with a few exceptions are sent there specifically for slaughter because that's what they were bred for, old horses which the owner no longer wishes to care for, injured or sick horses they don't want to pay vet expenses on, tons of minis, horses that are psychotic or lack a sound mind and a few decent ranch/riding horses. Anyhow it's not the backyard breeder its the breeder that produces tons of foals each year with only one thing on their mind $$$$$


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

Actually very very few old crippled type horses go to slaughter 93% are from 4 to 9 years old, very healthy and fat. Who like eating meat from old crippled animals?

Who ever asked me if it was Billings Mt. sale I go to yes thats the Billings I meant. I go to sales in Mt., Mn., Dakotas., Mo., Tx, and Ok. each year.


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## close2prfct (Mar 9, 2009)

sorry I didn't mean the old crippled horses were going to slaughter, i meant those were the horses i seen most at the sales unless they were the horses( younger healthy) that were bred for specifically for slaughter.


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

I'm sorry, i just have but a few words to say. 

People have their own opinions. Opinions are opinions, and EVERYBODY needs to respect that. Even to you, if that is good or bad. People have the right to breed - YES. Should you just breed to breed - not exactly. Country, what you said earlier about high demand for meat is different form over breeding- - your right. but BAD breeding leads to horses being slaughtered. Poorly bred animals are sold cheap, to home how want a pony for their 3 year old, and end up not being able to afford it. Those poorly bred creatures really have nothing but a loving soul, and nobody really in this economy can afford that. In desperate attempt, BAD owners sell the horse in an auction, or to a slaughter house. In auctions, horses and ponies that are not broke end up in the hands of Pony Dealers, who mistreat and abuse them. Yes - some go to rescues, but shelters and rescues a filling up with unwanted animals and BAM - some have to be put down. 

Just think about that.


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

-- another thing, close2perfect is right. In some cultures pigs is forbidden, but horse meat is in ours? Think about it.


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## KenyiGirl (Apr 10, 2009)

Why is horse meat so forbidden in our culture? I've never really understood that. In some cultures it's natural to eat dog or cat...


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

Dealers mistreat and abuse horses? None that I know of do they can't make any money with them and making money is why their in business. Maybe there are some that do but theres way more private horse owners that do so. Think about it.

And horse meat isn't eaten in our culture. Whats your point? What logical reason should all cultures eat what we do? Just think about that.


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## weefoal (Apr 4, 2009)

> Dealers mistreat and abuse horses? None that I know of do they can't make any money with them and making money is why their in business. Maybe there are some that do but theres way more private horse owners that do so. Think about it.


I unfortunately live just a few hrs from a kill auction house called Sugarcreek. Google it and you will see just how bad they are treated and still treated today. HBO even did a documentary on it. Person after person has called the sherrif during the auctions he holds there every week as every week he violates the law. (sick crippled horses going through, pregnant mares ready to foal--one foaled while being auctioned!) Every week he hauls them on double deckers which is supposed to be illegal yet nothing is done. HBO even followed his double decker to Texas and proved that not once from Ohio to Tx did they ever stop and offer the horses water or food and the horses were so crammed on there several were dead by the time they made it to TX. 

There are other horses there but the main buy is the owner who is the meat buyer. When you walk in the smell of death is everywhere. It was the most disgusting saddest auction I have ever been to. And this happens every single week. 

It is not acceptable to eat horse meat here in the States because horses are what helped settle this land. Horses are what we used in our wars to protect this land.


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

Are you talking about Leroy Baker? He was fined $163,000 this past Jan. for violations out of Sugar Creek which is a good thing. When someone breaks the law they should be fined. Ban what they broke the law about? No if that were the case virtually everything would get banned.


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## weefoal (Apr 4, 2009)

That amount of money is nothing to Leroy Baker. Any other auction house would be shut down for the numerous violations he has had for YEARS. But because he generates so much money in that town they are very reluctant to do anything but perhaps fine him. Hey if an HBO documentary on how bad the conditions are there cant get him shut down nothing can. 

Im not saying Im against slaughter. But I am against the horrendous conditions at his sale barn. And the horrible way he transports them to the slaughter houses. 

Im just disagreeing with your statement that most meat dealers treat the horses right. I have honestly never seen a meat dealer that treated the horses they transport to slaughter right. They actually could care less because if one dies in transport there are a hundred more waiting. 



> Dealers mistreat and abuse horses? None that I know of


So if you already knew about Mr Baker then you DO know a meat buyer/dealer that does not treat horses right!


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

I meant know them personally I've heard of Baker but don't know him. I do know 4 people with equine feed lots and their just like the people I know with Bovine feed lots. They take great care of their livestock and are excellent business people. Their making a living depends on it.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

ilovemyPhillip said:


> In some cultures pigs is forbidden, but horse meat is in ours? Think about it.


Well, pigs are forbidden ONLY because of religion. They considered to be dirty in muslim and jewish religions. And as far as I know they do not raise them to sell outside the county too (correct me if I'm wrong here). Same with cows in India (although they consider to be saint  ). However horse meat in US is forbidden in the same way as cats and dogs. Cultural thing. They are more of a friend and partner just historically. So do you suggest also to slaughter unwanted cats and dogs for chinese/korean dinnner? Those countries consider dog meat as a delicatessen as well as French/Cube/whatever do the horse meat. Why are they any different from the horses then? Think about it.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

county said:


> Dealers mistreat and abuse horses?


THEY DO! It's a known thing happening at my local auction (the authorities were called number of times by rescues, because people just couldn't stand the abuse). And at the famous (in bad way) New Holland, which is rather close to me.


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

Selling cats and dogs for slaughter here in the U.S. is illegal. Selling horses for slaughter is legal. Think about it.


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

Theres also private owners that abuse horses should all of us be banned from owning a horse because of that fact?


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

kitten_Val said:


> So do you suggest also to slaughter unwanted cats and dogs for chinese/korean dinnner? Those countries consider dog meat as a delicatessen as well as French/Cube/whatever do the horse meat. Why are they any different from the horses then? Think about it.


Although the use of cats and/or dogs in the US for food would be considered outrageous in our culture, there is a black market for that in certain areas. In fact there is currently a major problem in the Miami area of FL concerning the slaughtering of horses in their stalls and in pastures for their meat. There is a black market for horse meat to feed many of the Cuban refugees with meat selling for upwards of $20.00 per pound. Imagine going out to feed your horse in the morning only to find the slaughtered carcass of your pet. if horse meat was legal to sell there wouldn't be that problem.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

county said:


> Theres also private owners that abuse horses should all of us be banned from owning a horse because of that fact?


No, but some (not sure the most) of those abusive owners ARE banned from owning animals. However I NEVER heard something like that was done to the local dealer. Democracy is certainly not in place here.


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

I've never heard of private owners being fined $163,000 either. No one I know of approves of abuse but to ban an entire industry because some exists makes no logical sense.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

iridehorses said:


> Although the use of cats and/or dogs in the US for food would be considered outrageous in our culture, there is a black market for that in certain areas. In fact there is currently a major problem in the Miami area of FL concerning the slaughtering of horses in their stalls and in pastures for their meat. There is a black market for horse meat to feed many of the Cuban refugees with meat selling for upwards of $20.00 per pound. Imagine going out to feed your horse in the morning only to find the slaughtered carcass of your pet. if horse meat was legal to sell there wouldn't be that problem.


Yes, I read about it too couple days back. It's just horrible. Personally I think the punishment for that should be REALLY high, but from what I've seen noone was even caught. Frankly I think EVEN if selling horse meat would be illegal here it would be on market no matter what. And I certainly remember the stories about the chinese restaurants selling cat/dog food as chickens and all that. Unfortunately, authorities usually don't care much about animals (even though they say they do).


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

county said:


> I've never heard of private owners being fined $163,000 either. No one I know of approves of abuse but to ban an entire industry because some exists makes no logical sense.


Well, may be fining tens of thousands of $$ & jail would help to stop abuse from private owners. I think that would be a good idea. Now they just pay $100 (if not less) and do it again month later. 

As for banning the entire industry. Well, I don't know. I don't have too much against horse meat itself and can understand using them as beef, but shipping them to Canada and Mexico and abusively killing there is just... I agree with Tiff, I havn't been on plant, but I've seen the videos. It's just awful, that's all I can say. Now that meat industry is all blooming because too many unwanted horses. If that wouldn't be a case then then industry would just go down naturally.


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

Slaughter is abusive in Can. and Mex.? Actually in Can. they have strict regulations and both there and the new Beltex plant in Mex. they have to meet EU regulations which are very strict. There are a few mexican slaughter plants where that culture uses a knife to kill the horse or cow but thats been the culture for centuries and has nothing to do with the horses that go to Beltex they use a captive bolt to kill them same as in the U.S.

Horse slaughter doesn't boom because of two many horses if it did then theres been to many since theres been horses thats how long they've been eaten. It exists because people want to buy and eat the meat thats not going to change because of horse numbers if it did then right now would be when more are slaughtered then any time in history and were far from that.


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## weefoal (Apr 4, 2009)

I guess we are really getting off topic now LOL

Again I am not against horse slaughter. It is a necessary evil. I just am against the ones that dont do it responsibly. 

Last I looked its a free country and anyone can breed what they want. Im always telling people though if you are going to breed educate yourself on what good horse conformation is. There are no perfect horses but you have to try and eliminate as many faults as you can. Its not just about a horse winning ribbons or looking pretty--*-its about a horse living a long healthy pain free life! * Many leg faults cause early onset arthritis so if you are breeding those in you are dooming that horse to a life of pain. 

I will also say the hardest horses for us to adopt out are lame horses. Apparently no one wants to look out the window and see a horse hobbling around the pasture  

I started CMHR so that I could give back to the horses that have given so much to me. If you breed horses you should pick a horse rescue that you believe in and then support it! Give back to the horses! I always tell breeders you never know when we maybe picking up one that you bred.


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

I agree thats why we rescue horses ourselves.


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## close2prfct (Mar 9, 2009)

kitten_Val said:


> Yes, I read about it too couple days back. It's just horrible. Personally I think the punishment for that should be REALLY high, but from what I've seen noone was even caught. Frankly I think EVEN if selling horse meat would be illegal here it would be on market no matter what. And I certainly remember the stories about the chinese restaurants selling cat/dog food as chickens and all that. Unfortunately, authorities usually don't care much about animals (even though they say they do).



Well not all "authorities" do not care, I prided myself on taking on animal abuse cases and winning. Most of the other officers I worked with also had a zero tolerance level for abuse...BUT this topic isn't about slaughter, animal abuse, whether it should be legal or not to eat horses it is about BREEDING.

The OP's purpose was to debate breeding yet it always ends up to a slaughter debate. So please could we get back on the subject


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## weefoal (Apr 4, 2009)

County


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

weefoal said:


> I guess we are really getting off topic now LOL


Yes and now has no interest for me.:-(


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

close2prfct said:


> Well not all "authorities" do not care, I prided myself on taking on animal abuse cases and winning. Most of the other officers I worked with also had a zero tolerance level for abuse...


I didn't mean "all" at all.  If you know lots of officers like that - GREAT! If you fight on animal abuse - my respect! I just wish ALL of the AC would be like that and people would take animal abuse more seriously, but from press too often the abusers just slip away. 

Anyway, getting back to the breeding topic. :lol: Without any state or county-level rules it's impossible to prevent any BYB from just crossing whatever or keeping private parts on stud, which should of be gelded in his 1st 6 months. Try to educate such people? I think it's not gonna happen ever, because usually those people don't care about "educating", because "old pap knows everything, so he'll tell us". Push on eduction before opening the "certified" breeding facility would work, but again most BYB don't open any "breeding facilities", they just breed.


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

You can try and " educate " people but who gets to decide what education is? I've had people on here slam what I breed and I like what I breed very much as do my customers. I've sold horses I breed from coast to coast and to Europe, Can. , and Mex. Why should I consider someone elses idea of " Educating " me to what they think I should do?


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

Sometimes people just have to learn to accept the world isn't going to step in line the same way they do. Why and what people breed is many many different things and reasons and theres nothing wrong with that. Some breed for money, some could care less about the money. Some breed to raise show horses some breed because they like to have a foal and theres nothing wrong with that. Some want all horses to have great conformation some aren't concerned about it nothing wrong with either thing just different. Someone told me once I shouldn't breed a mare because its not they type they like and the get might end up going to slaughter. Well I could care less what they like, I'm not anti slaughter, so if the owner chooses to sell it for that purpose I have no problem with it thats totally their business. 

The worlds a huge place and thankfully not all of the people in it think one way about life and all thats involved with it.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

*climbs onto chair, wobbles slightly*

"MY NAME IS JENNY AND I AM A BACKYARD BREEDER!"

I bred my personally owned mare to get my colt, who will be three years old in just 2 days. My mare has great bloodlines (Impressive bred but HYPP/NN). The stallion I used also had impressive in his blood, also HYPP/NN. My colt has a neck that is shorter and thicker then the preffered comfirmation... But I love him very very much.

"MY NAME IS JENNY AND I AM A BACKYARD BREEDER!"


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

farmpony84 said:


> *climbs onto chair, wobbles slightly*
> 
> "MY NAME IS JENNY AND I AM A BACKYARD BREEDER!"


Oh, c'mon, farmpony!  Again I mentioned that before and say it now I (personally) have NOTHING againt people taking breeding seriously, doing some research, having in fact enough money to breed/feed/vet, and training the baby. You can't ALWAYS get a perfect horse even from the most perfect parents in world. But he's registered (I assume) and has good bloodlines (I assume), and HYPP N/N(!!), and if you train him and he doesn't have major confo faults (like leg problems) you'll be able to find him a good home even in this market if something goes wrong in life (knock on wood, of course).

That's actually NOT a definition of BYB (at least in MY understanding). We have those old (and not so old) folks around who throw mares with stud and get 10 foals every year. Some they even register, but no vet, no farrier, no training - they are just wild as they can be (but cheap!). In good case scenario they are fed in winter, but some don't even get that. 
Bet where they go when those folks need money or (worse) die?

Anyway, I'm done here with all this BYB discussion. I've seen it enough in my area to be very much against popping out gazillion babies without even taking care of them. I think it has to be stopped this way or another (by say checking the farm/facility with the authorities every 2-3 years), but it's just my own opinion.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

kitten_Val said:


> Oh, c'mon, farmpony!  Again I mentioned that before and say it now I (personally) have NOTHING againt people taking breeding seriously, doing some research, having in fact enough money to breed/feed/vet, and training the baby. You can't ALWAYS get a perfect horse even from the most perfect parents in world. But he's registered (I assume) and has good bloodlines (I assume), and HYPP N/N(!!), and if you train him and he doesn't have major confo faults (like leg problems) you'll be able to find him a good home even in this market if something goes wrong in life (knock on wood, of course).
> 
> That's actually NOT a definition of BYB (at least in MY understanding). We have those old (and not so old) folks around who throw mares with stud and get 10 foals every year. Some they even register, but no vet, no farrier, no training - they are just wild as they can be (but cheap!). In good case scenario they are fed in winter, but some don't even get that.
> Bet where they go when those folks need money or (worse) die?
> ...


Oh dang.:-( I thought I had a label... *climbs off chair and plops down in it*...

I am an obnoxious breeder of one gelding?:wink:


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

farmpony84 said:


> I am an obnoxious breeder of one gelding?:wink:


Well, at least you don't keep his b..s so his momma won't have some date with him in pasture! Lol! 

Actually one of my local friends made I believe 2 or 3 babies from her grade mare (who is very nice in confo and disposition). I know they were all given away (or sold) to the local people, who are very happy. I wouldn't call THAT "being BYB". However she always blows up on local forum when we start discussion BYB and such. :lol: 

I was thinking about breeding my paint after she'll get older when I just got her, but after doing some research and taking everything into consideration (like she has papers, but they are not that great, as well as how much money I have to put into the whole process) I just quit.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

After some thinking... Hm-m-m-m... I'm not sure what would be the right "label" in your situation. "Home breeding" may be? :lol:


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

...I geuss I'll stick w/ the one that was bestowed apon me.... "mean old farmpony"


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## close2prfct (Mar 9, 2009)

How about not labeling anyone until you know the whole story instead of jumping out there and insinuating they are total idiots for asking a question about breeding?


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

close2prfct said:


> How about not labeling anyone until you know the whole story instead of jumping out there and insinuating they are total idiots for asking a question about breeding?


...Ouch....


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

I don't think I've ever done that. 
Inform people about making responsible breeding choices, sure. But I don't think they're idiots.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

close2prfct said:


> How about not labeling anyone until...


I'd go with -not labeling- anyone. Without any "until". :lol:


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Good point.


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## close2prfct (Mar 9, 2009)

lol shakes head I was so in a hurry and going to put something else then changed my mind......grabs eraser & erases the "until"


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

farmpony84 said:


> *climbs onto chair, wobbles slightly*
> 
> "MY NAME IS JENNY AND I AM A BACKYARD BREEDER!"
> 
> ...


No the term home breeder would be more appropiate. I myself am a home breeder. When I took my mare ( my boy's mom) and CAREFULLY looked around for the right stallion taking into account what I wanted to produce, my mare's bloodlines and the sire's bloodlines and searched for the best I could afford. That is not backyard breeding and it sounds like this is much like what you did.

A BYB is a person that breeds any mare to any stallion to produce any foal without regard to the breeding, conformation of the parents and potential result of that breeding.


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## Joshie (Aug 26, 2008)

farmpony84 said:


> Oh dang.:-( I thought I had a label... *climbs off chair and plops down in it*...
> 
> I am obnoxious :wink:


Well.....

Being obnoxious IS a label, isn't it?

<Runs for cover now....>


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

...so is meaniehead! teehee....


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

farmpony84 said:


> ...so is meaniehead! teehee....


Yeah Joshie is a meaniehead !!!!!!!


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## Joshie (Aug 26, 2008)

farmpony84 said:


> ...so is meaniehead! teehee....



I was just trying to agree with you. 















Spyder said:


> Yeah Joshie is a meaniehead !!!!!!!


And you have eight big stinky feet!


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

oh that just gave me the heebie jeebies.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

farmpony84 said:


> oh that just gave me the heebie jeebies.


 
Understandable....that is a very, very bad spydee and a black sheep of the family.:evil:

Me................... I am just the nicest one and fuzzy and cute too.


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## Whipple (Feb 2, 2009)

You _still _have far too many limbs and eyes. Freaky, but not as bad as the non fuzzies.

I'm enjoying this thread btw.


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## Joshie (Aug 26, 2008)

Spyder said:


> Understandable....that is a very, very bad spydee and a black sheep of the family.:evil:


That was a photo of YOU and you know it.

Bad, bad, bad Spydee.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Joshie said:


> That was a photo of YOU and you know it.
> 
> Bad, bad, bad Spydee.


It was NOT. I am that cuddly one in my Avatar.

See folks...I am replying here perfectly innocent and meaniehead Joshie is leading this thread south.


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## Joshie (Aug 26, 2008)

Spyder said:


> It was NOT. I am that cuddly one in my Avatar.
> 
> See folks...I am replying here perfectly innocent and meaniehead Joshie is leading this thread south.











Spydee is the one with the bad breath.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Joshie! In the corner! You are a meaniehead and you know it! To your room! NO DINNER FOR YOU!


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## Joshie (Aug 26, 2008)

farmpony84 said:


> Joshie! In the corner! You are a meaniehead and you know it! To your room! NO DINNER FOR YOU!


I's a good girl. Did you see that horrible, hairy picture she said was mine? And Spyder said I have big, hairy feet when hers are larger and hairier than mine. You bullies are pickin' on me!


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

OK Guys, the thread is getting hijacked from the original question so let's either get it on target or, if we are finished, closed.


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## KenyiGirl (Apr 10, 2009)

I think that animals should be bred for a specific purpose. If you have no purpose in mind for the breeding, then it should not be taking place.


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## peace love and paints (Nov 10, 2008)

i dont breed for showing purposes. i breed for characteristics i like, and thats my deal. i have never sent a foal to a slaugher market. all the ones i have sold have happy homes and i check on them from time to time.


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