# My horse acts spooky



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi & welcome to HF!

First, you may notice, I turned your pic around for you. ;-) I know you said the creamy is yours, but as you've shown that pic, the chestnut(guessing the other one her foal by the looks?) looks like she has a seriously funky & weak looking hind end, so probably has a fair bit of pain there. 

Regardless of how they look, esp when a horse starts a 'new' behaviour like you describe, pain/discomfort is the first thing you want to rule out/treat. So I'd consider the saddle, your riding & weight, back probs, ulcers, hoof pain, teeth/bit pain, etc. You may need a bodyworker(like a chiropractic vet or such) if your vet is not specialised in body issues.



> He lunges ok clockwise but not very well counterclockwise..he will walk in toward me and stop. I try to tap on his left flank to move him but he just goes backwards. It's not a dominance issue because he lowers his head and licks his lips after lunging.


Those 'problems' may be simply that he doesn't know what you want, hasn't been taught, or you aren't being clear or such. Agree that it's not likely a 'dominance issue', as they're not really behaviours of a 'dominant' type horse, but not that lip licking has anything to do with it. That tends to be an indication they've come to some conclusion, which could be simply that coming in to you or backing away from you, depending what you're asking, gets you to stop hassling him.



> On the ride he will trot and gallop on command. I just need help making him a stable and predictable horse. I never know what hes gonna pull each time we go out and I'm sick of it


You say you never know, but is it in any particular gait? Is he saddled or bareback? What sort of riding do you do? What standard rider are you? Is he alone or are there other horses around? And saying you're 'sick of it' makes me think this has been going on for some time? That he's getting habitual about it? And what do you do when he 'pulls this trick'?


----------



## Jolly101 (Jul 2, 2018)

Has the vet and/or chiropractor been involved? If not, I’d start there. The issue could be pain related. 

However, some horses, by nature, are just prone to spooking and your horse could be this type. There are certain things we can do to help with their confidence undersaddle, but the behaviour will never go away entirely.

You could work on desensitizing on the ground, then move to working in the concept undersaddle. Slowly building his confidence through obstacles as well. Gradually expose him to new things, building his trust in you and confidence himself.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

H m m . . . my general suggestions, without see any other factors, nor watching this situation come about, is keep him busy . Keep him answering a request from you, and don't give him time to start fabricating things of his own.


His inability to lunge in one direction may indicate some kind of soreness. Has he been seen by a vet, chiropracter or body worker ?


A 15 year old horse can be very set in their ways, but they are not OLD. He may just be becoming savvy on how to cut short his 'work' session with you.


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Mike Gillis said:


> About 15 min into my ride my horse gets spooky acting. He will stop all of the sudden , start walking sideways, backwards, and does tiny bucks ..all without any stimulus whatsoever. If there is a stimulus he will turn real quick etc. !


The way this is worded this horse is not spooky but is nappy (barn sour) and wants to get back home to his buddies. 

There are many ways of dealing with this and for all you need to be very determined and firm.


----------



## horsesnames (Apr 14, 2020)

Sudden changes in a horse's behavior are always suspect. Something happened, and it's the human's job to figure out what it was and how to explain it to the horse. One of my most solid horses became spooky after she saw a hawk kill a rabbit in the field next to the riding ring. For a while she spooked whenever we passed that spot.

They have lives that don't include us.

You need to become a detective. Does it happen at the same place or same point in the riding routine? Have you ruled out pain that might be distracting the horse so things seem to pop out of nowhere in his distracted mind? Are you letting his mind wander with boring repetitions? Has something changed where you ride? A blue trash can was my mare's undoing at one point. She was fine with any other color. But we didn't figure that out until we'd ruled out the new dog next door, overgrown bushes, and a dozen other variables.

One of my favorite trainers dubbed those moments “frizzy brain hairs”. That's a very apt description.

I've had good luck de-spooking them by starting a program for a while that involved teaching a complicated series of movements or behaviors that kept their brains engaged while I worked them past the trigger. Make it hard, then going back seems easy. But always, always rule out physical causes. Something as minor as the small polyp at the edge of the iris in his eye becoming a little larger and blocking his view or a cataract beginning to become visually significant can do it. So can an ill-fitting saddle or some other piece of tack that only presses, tweaks, pinches, or jingles under the right circumstances can be extra hard to suss out. Take the time to work though this. You and your horse will have a close relationship if you do.


----------



## Aprilswissmiss (May 12, 2019)

Everyone's made some great recommendations about ruling out health issues before behavioral issues, but I would like to add (as I haven't seen it mentioned yet) that while you have the vet out, make sure they check his eyes. His vision might seem fine to you but you could be missing something that a vet will catch. A recent change in his vision in one eye could explain his one-sidedness, as well as a recent change in his behavior. I worked at a stable with a horse who progressively lost 90% of his vision and he was so spooky you couldn't even walk by his stall without him flinging himself against the wall. Not to say vision is definitely the problem, as this can absolutely be a hole in training or a behavioral issue or a chiropractic issue among many other things, but it is something to ask the vet to pay specific attention to during an exam.


----------



## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

Licking and chewing literally just means that they were tense about something, and now they're less tense. It has nothing to do with dominance, or learning, or a lot of the things that people ascribe to it. It's a release of tension. That's it.


----------



## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I'd start with ruling out any pain first, before anything else. Saddle fit also. 
I also second getting his vision checked.


----------



## Keira Cloudhawk (Nov 18, 2019)

I agree with everyone else on pain issues (chiropractor, teeth floating, etc.). Aswell as saddle fit.
I'll also like to second @loosie with the lunging. He's doing what he knows to do. I would recommend just working on lunging to teach him.


----------



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

SteadyOn said:


> Licking and chewing literally just means that they were tense about something, and now they're less tense. It has nothing to do with dominance, or learning, or a lot of the things that people ascribe to it. It's a release of tension. That's it.


Thought I'd written just that, but looking back, must have had a brain fart!


----------



## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

If pain or other health issues are ruled out then he is almost certainly simply expressing his displeasure in having to go any farther away from the barn. 

If you have a good trainer to work with, that would be most helpful. If not, then you are just going to have to be determined to outlast and outsmart him. 

My mare isn't a really difficult horse but when I ride her out by herself after she's had a long vacation, for the first mile or so she will randomly stop and act like her feet have become nailed to the ground. I don't get mad at her (that would get her very agitated), I just keep asking her to go forward until she gives up and takes that first step. If it takes too long for her to make up her mind I might swat the saddle with the ends of the reins. The main thing is to just be bothersomely persistent in not permitting unwanted behavior until the horse realizes it isn't worthwhile to do anything but go forward. Make the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard. 

If your horse has been able to get you to give up and go back home -- even once! let alone consistently -- then know that it may take quite a lot of repetition before he completely gives up on the idea.


----------



## Mike Gillis (Apr 13, 2020)

Thanks for all of the replies just figured out how to reply on this forum. The part that I did not mention is that he has no problem going back to the barn.. he tries to walk faster so no health issues just a case of the stubbornness.he does spook easily so that's what I was worried about..he threw me off once when a butterfly flew out of a bush...he did a quick 90 degree turn..

What should I do when he starts walking sideways and backwards.? I tried kicking on him and whipping him with reins but he doesnt behave. I didn't have this issue last year.. thanks for all the replies I'm on my own over here been learning from videos..


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I think you have to be more proactive. YOu have to watch. Usually a horse will give you signals that they are starting to do the thinking on their own about what to do, where to go. If you see that (evidenced by a slight pause, them slowing, their ears going back, head bobbing, . . etc), you immediately give them something to do, with authority.


----------



## mslady254 (May 21, 2013)

If it's safe to do so, and only if you're sure of that,,,,,,,,when he goes sideways or backwards without being asked to, you ask for more and/or faster sideways and backwards. Think to yourself, or even say out loud "great idea, lets go sideways. yay" and cue to continue what he started. Don't think "you want sideways, you so and so, I'll give you sideways!" because that will change your emotions and he will feel it as punishment which might get more bad attitude or behavior from him. Easier said than done, I know, but better if your frustration doesn't show. After you've (safely) gone sideways or backwards much further than he intended, halt and ask for forward again. Hopefully, he will decide that it's not so great to suddenly go sideways or backwards because all he wanted from it was to get his way, not to improve his sideways or backwards. It may only take once, or it may take several times before he decides he really doesnt' want to give you the idea to go sideways or backwards.

All this is ,of course,dependent on you knowing how to cue for sideways and backwards and are comfortable and confident at those movements. Also, dependent on you knowing for sure that he's not truly afraid of something about to eat him.

Good luck. Stay safe. Have fun.


----------



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Mike Gillis said:


> Thanks for all of the replies just figured out how to reply on this forum. The part that I did not mention is that he has no problem going back to the barn.. he tries to walk faster so no health issues just a case of the stubbornness.


Yeah, sounds quite possibly just behavioural. BUT horses are incredibly stoic and I wouldn't say you've ruled out physical probs simply for that reason. He might have 'no problem' going home because he knows it will alleviate the discomfort sooner.

If he has a 'case of stubbornness', this is unfortunately your doing. Horses try stuff and do what works, quit doing what doesn't work, simple as that. If he tried it on once & it worked for him, he will do it again. If it happens & works repeatedly, he will become more confirmed that that is the Right Thing. If he has to fight you, but eventually gets his own way, you are teaching him to be 'stubborn' & outpersist you. He will be prepared to fight longer & harder each time.

You haven't told what you do, before and when he does this behaviour? I'd be a)aiming to make going out with you easy, rewarding and fun, and b) ensure his behaviour doesn't work for him, BUT c) if it is real fear, he is reacting in self preservation, don't try to force the issue, but accept that you've asked too much for him for now.



> he does spook easily so that's what I was worried about..he threw me off once when a butterfly flew out of a bush...he did a quick 90 degree turn..


Perhaps he doesn't trust going out with you, or the places you want to go. So he feels he has to 'save himself' by reacting as he sees fit, rather than relying on you to keep him safe.



> I tried kicking on him and whipping him with reins but he doesnt behave.


If you were put into what you believed a dangerous situation by someone you didn't understand or trust to look out for you, would it help you get over it, become more confident if they hit you & tried to force you? I think quiet persistence, being considerate in ensuring you're not asking too much, and rewarding him for what he CAN do is a better way to go.


----------



## Mike Gillis (Apr 13, 2020)

I also turn him in tight circles left and right when he misbehaves. Hes a real good horse otherwise. Great for the ferrier stands good for brushing bathing saddling. My mare is food aggressive and bullys him I have seen chunks of mane missing from both of them.


----------



## Mike Gillis (Apr 13, 2020)

What about just getting down and making him walk with you in the direction that he does not want to go maybe that would be a start or is that just a bad idea all together? I don't want to whip him with the reins but I don't know what else to do I could get down and lunge him around in circles and then get back on him every time he does that maybe that will work.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

You could do that. but, you may have to always do that. And, if you do it, and walk him out a bit, get back on, will he then go forward? or will her pull the same stunt?


Try it and see. How you deal with this depends in part on how good your own riding skills are.


----------



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Mike Gillis said:


> What about just getting down and making him walk with you in the direction that he does not want to go maybe that would be a start or is that just a bad idea all together? I don't want to whip him with the reins but I don't know what else to do I could get down and lunge him around in circles and then get back on him every time he does that maybe that will work.


If he is truly 'spooky', as opposed to being perfectly confident, just doing it because he has learned it works, then IF he trusts you on the ground, yes, walking in front & leading them past a 'scary' can indeed be helpful. That is what I do with most green horses when they're afraid of something on the trail - say a bridge, stream or such.

If he doesn't trust you on the ground, that won't help, especially if you're trying to force him. When horses are frightened, they tend to *react* rather than respond, and cannot think & learn clearly. If you do punish fear reactions, that tends to just lead to worse fear & reactivity, as they now have another Bad Thing to associate the situation with. And you will also be associated with that emotion/response.

If you are sure he is not doing this in fear, just due to previous 'lessons', then punishment can be effective as *part* of the answer. But remember, horses cannot think rationally, cannot understand abstracted ideas, cannot associate cause & effect unless it's *instantly* linked. If you're going to punish a horse, for it to be associated with the crime, it should be done *at the time of* the crime, and stop when the behaviour stops. Or at worst, *within* a couple of seconds of the behaviour you intend to punish.

So doing something like circling in punishment will likely only make circling punishing/unpleasant. Especially if he does this, you get off & then start lunging circles - there is WAY too long in between, AND it is an unrelated behaviour. This will only cause bad associations with lunging.


----------

