# Why even use a bit?



## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

One big reason I use a bit is because I can't show with a rope halter. If you think in order to control a horse with a bit is to yank it, yes a rope halter is better in those hands, since that means you are not using your weight, seat or legs. It is not a matter of which bit I use, it is matter of which bit my horse will reach for and how much pressure I will apply with my other aids to keep him there. While I started youngsters in bosals, they reach a point where more precision & finesse can be asked for.
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## KSL (Oct 4, 2012)

Well I mean besides from showing


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Yes, I can ride both my horses [20 year old Paint mare and 4 year old QH filly] in a flat nylon halter and lead rope. I don't do this often though, because I feel using a bit allows me to give a more subtle and refined cue. Bits are useful tools. They can be abused, certainly, but it is ridiculous to assume that everyone riding in a bit doesn't have the same relationship or training with their animal as you do or that they aren't a real horseman. And I will say this loudly, BITS ARE ONLY AS HARSH AND PAINFUL AS THE RIDER USING IT.

I ride my little one in a French link D ring. Maybe it's possible to train all the things I want in her with a halter, but that would require a VERY experienced horseman and that's way over my [already high] experience level. I don't yank on her face. I can ask her to bend by squeezing with my ring finger, it applies a slight tickle to the side of her mouth. I can give and take and increase the pressure until she responds. In my opinion, by having a lead rope tied to the sides of the halter as reins doesn't allow your horse the opportunity to respond to a lighter cue. Yes, your horse can eventually be trained to respond to leg and seat aids, but you can't get on a horse for the first time and expect it to turn by applying leg.

I ride my older mare in a Kimberwick. I tried many bits, a French link, a single-jointed snaffle, a solid rubber snaffle, and finally my Kimberwick. She loves it. In this bit, I can refine our cues to ever so slight touches and pressure. She rides beautifully in it, floats underneath me, lifting her back, engaging her hindquarters, it's marvelous.

Bits are used to improve COMMUNICATION. We only speak so much "horse," we NEED something to help create a language we both can understand. I use my bits to fine tune and refine. Just because I have a bit doesn't mean I'm hanging on their mouth and causing them pain.
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## DieselPony (Jul 26, 2010)

I use a bit because it is clearer to my horse than just a rope halter. I can ride her in a halter and rope, but its just easier in a bit. She responds better to a bit than her halter while riding. 
I've always ridden with a bit. The few horses I have ridden in a bosal the cues felt "muddy". Probably because both the horse and I weren't bosal pros.

I know how to use the bit I'm using, my horse knows how to respond to it, and I don't see why I have to work towards just a halter and lead rope.

My opinion: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. 

Besides, I find people that ride with lead ropes and halters only tend to just to brag about it. Not saying everyone does it to brag, just the ones I've come across that always do it, do it for bragging rights.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Well if you have ridden a well trained "bridled" horse, you will be hooked. You barely more your hand, it's just a vibration and the horse feels it and responds. Or a long strided English horse, rounding his back, reaching for contact and giving you air time with an extension like no one's business. Those things I have not been able to achieve bitless or at liberty. Heck I sweat like a hog getting my horse to jog poles at liberty!


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## BarrelWannabe (Feb 8, 2011)

For refinement. There are some things that you just can't do with a rope halter. 

Not every horse likes being ridden without a bit. They're all individuals who have their preferences. 

Riding with a bit is all fine and well, with the right set of hands. Sure, anyone can hope on and haul away at a horse's mouth. Then I understand the dislike towards bits, but not in all cases. 

It'd be like telling a cross country runner that he shouldn't need to wear shoes because he can or should be able to compete without them. Sure he can, but those shoes are a tool worth using. They have a purpose, and that's to aid in his performance. 
Just like riding a horse. Lets say it's a reining class. Yeah, you can go in there with a halter on and run your pattern, but you lack the finesse and refinement of a bit to clarify what you are wanting. 

Using a bit IS a matter of preference, but most people chose to use them.
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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

If you are hurting the horse with a bit then your hands aren't light enough to be using it. A halter or bosal still work on pressure. Hard hands are hard no matter what you ride in.


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## KSL (Oct 4, 2012)

Well it's not really for bragging rights. Mostly for the benefit of the horse. 

I disagree that any horse "loves" any bit. You wouldn't "love" a metal bar stuck in your mouth. Tolerate it well, maybe. 

I see no difference when I ride in a bit and a bosal. My horses were trained in a bos and respond wonderfully and super light. I don't think a bit would improve anything at all with my horses. They know what I'm asking.


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## EvilHorseOfDoom (Jun 17, 2012)

Most bits aren't cruel, plenty of hands are. Rope halters still have pressure points, often in more sensitive places on the horses head. Yanking on a rope halter will be unpleasant for a horse, just as yanking on a bit would be. It's not about what you use, it's about how you use it.

If you ride properly there is nothing wrong with riding with a bit, and the responses are more refined. If I'm just riding a trail I'll ride on the buckle but if I'm doing training in the arena I want refined responses from the horse. A bosal just won't give me that. I'd also like to see someone stop an excitable young horse in a rope halter...


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

My horse certainly prefers her big bad Kimberwick to riding in halter. She knows precisely what I want in a bit, but a halter allows too much room for confusion.

The discipline matters greatly. If you are just riding trails, it's easy to say my horse knows what I want. In dressage? Hardly. I can combine a seat, leg, and rein aid and my horse can move a particular muscle. Can you do that?

If your only intention is to tell us you have better horses and methods than we do, I don't plan on continuing posting. You said you were genuinely curious, which suggests you have an open mind. If you don't, you'll find most of us have no tolerance for that.
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## alexis rose (Oct 1, 2012)

My old horse Shadow won't let you put a bit in her mouth. When I got Phar Lap I tried a bit and he kept rearing and crow hopping. I put a hackamore on him and he was a total different horse. I ride both of them most of the time with just a halter and they are very sensitive with those and do what I want when I want. Plus, when we go trail riding and take breaks it is nice not having a bit in their mouth so they can eat grass easier. It seems to be a much better break for them too.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Honestly, I find a number of mild bits even gentler than many rope halters. Rope halters with thin rope or knots on the soft pressure points of their faces can be seriously painful. I used this example before, but I (a barely 5 foot tall girl) can take down a full grown man wit the use of pressure points, and you can ask him, the pressure HURTS. There are a large number of mild bits designed for riding and communicating more clearly than a rope halter anyway.

Look at mullen mouth unbroken snaffles, or french link snaffles, or bumper sweet water curbs, or those soft rubber bits (not talking about happy mouths, talking about the ones made completely out of rubber that's a straight bar and bends in their mouth). Inside the horse's mouth the horse has the ability to move and hold the bit with their tongue and angle their heads in a way to relieve all pressure. With a rope halter they can't relieve excessive pressure or the mild pressure of it simply resting on them, like they can with a bit.
These are those bits I was referring to:






























Rope halters also are NOT designed for riding in, when using one like a side pull you are guaranteed to twist it, putting the knots in all the wrong places, even potentially dangerous places. It slides all up and down their face when reins are used. When using one like a bosal with a rope tied to the bottom, the communication is ALL wrong. Don't even get me started on too much pressure with that one!
See how it slides around? it's nearly poking the horse's eye out:









Many bitless options are actually far more dangerous than a mild-medium bit. I've seen more and more broken noses in horses with this new 'bitless' craze. Mechanical hackamores and poorly fitting rope halters are just plain dangerous. Any tool used improperly is dangerous, bitless does not equal nicer.

All this being said, my horses are all taught riding with mild bits, then I put them in Indian hackamore's, that's my bitless preference. I personally put a nose fuzzy on mine, so they solid rope over the nose has some cushion so that it doesn't bother or rub her nose. I also only use the variety that have metal rings for the reins to run through, rather than fabric loops, so release of pressure is immediate.
Indian Hackamore (this one's pretty strong, with such narrow ropes, mine's thicker and again has a nose fuzzy on):









Now I completely agree people need to spend more time with their horses rather than just up-bitting them. But bit's used properly are just fine.

ETA: Wow in the time it took me to write this it went from no responses to 2 pages xD hot topic I think!


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

I feel that riding with a bit affords a more precise communication between myself and my horse. I find that the communication in some ways is less clear in a halter.

Personally most people that I see riding in a halter do it just to brag about doing it and don't ride under a particular discipline.
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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

alexis rose said:


> My old horse Shadow won't let you put a bit in her mouth. When I got Phar Lap I tried a bit and he kept rearing and crow hopping. I put a hackamore on him and he was a total different horse. I ride both of them most of the time with just a halter and they are very sensitive with those and do what I want when I want. Plus, when we go trail riding and take breaks it is nice not having a bit in their mouth so they can eat grass easier. It seems to be a much better break for them too.


Obviously, some horses will not do well in any bit. However, without trying every bit, you don't know that your horse doesn't like any bit. Some horses have low palettes and are harder to bit, some have neglected teeth, some have injuries, etc etc.

If I just wanted a horse that would go easily on a trail/pleasure ride, I would keep my little one in a halter. However, we will eventually get into dressage. I cannot, ever, train her to piaffe in a flat nylon halter with broad, imprecise cues. Once she learns how, sure, but not to train it.

OP, what is it you DO with your horses, exactly?

ETA: Well said Punks!
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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Also I wanted to add there are a number of jointed bits that can be kind and mild too, I noticed I only really pointed out the unjointed ones. Myler has come up with a gentle formula for bits (with steep prices to match x.x) but I like their designs:









ETA: It looks like there's no description for those things. Copper inlay for increased salivation and something to keep the horse's mouth soft. Slimmer mouth peice for more room for the tongue. Barrel to prevent nut-cracker action. Curved mouth piece to provide complete tongue relief. Smooth action, means the bit turns rather than pinches. The hooks provide a clear place for reins and headstall keeping the bit held and working properly. Though I wish they put the hooks on the other side so they didn't poke in, but not all mylers are like that.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

KSL said:


> I disagree that any horse "loves" any bit. You wouldn't "love" a metal bar stuck in your mouth. Tolerate it well, maybe.


I don't love hay, grass living in a field, I wouldn't want to carry someone on my back for miles either. I prefer to travel in the truck rather than the trailer.

I can see little point in the comparisons.

I'm sure my horses would be quite content to live their lives without my inconvenient and 'abusive' insistence at putting saddles on them, bits in their mouths and requiring them to do my bidding for a small % of their lives.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I switched from bitless to a bit because as I advanced as a rider, I wanted more communication with my horse. More precise communication. With a bit, if she gets excited and starts to go faster or get strung out - something she is prone to do - I can take the slack out of the rein as each shoulder starts to move forward. Left, right, left right...and my horses interpret that as 'move your front leg a little less far'. In about 6-10 strides, they will relax and collect a little. The result is a more relaxed, balanced trot or canter. It also works when my mare gets worried about something. It seems to establish in her mind that I'm on her back and I know what I want her to do.

I couldn't do that bitless. My mare didn't know what a bit was until a year ago, but I have no desire to go back.

No, I've never had a bloody mouthed horse. They don't flinch at the sight of a bit. They open their mouths for it to go in. They release it gently at the end of the ride.

Do they love it? Nope. They don't love having a saddle put on either. At heart, they would be happier if I left them in the corral and fed and watered them forever without riding. But they nuzzle me at the end of the ride and I don't tie them up to clean or saddle them, so they don't object very much.

I do object to people who haven't met my horses telling me bitless is better. I spent 3 years bitless and my horses are more eager and more confident with a bit. YMMV.


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## EvilHorseOfDoom (Jun 17, 2012)

bsms said:


> I do object to people who haven't met my horses telling me bitless is better. I spent 3 years bitless and my horses are more eager and more confident with a bit. YMMV.


I agree, bsms (yes, I actually said that! :lol. My horse willingly accepts the bit (a mild one) and I have no intention of changing to a bosal or rope halter - the communication from a bit is a lot clearer and he gets very frustrated when he feels like he is getting unclear or mixed signals. And frustration ends up in a massive bucking temper tantrum if I can't stop it from escalating... :?


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

If we're going down the bitless vs bitted path...
Do you ride in a saddle? Saddles are cruel, all horses that wear a saddle have got some kind of musculature issue along their backs. No matter how well fitting the saddle is, it compresses the muscles and causes damage. 

Giving horses grain isn't natural, is that cruel?

Putting a horse in a trailer, must be cruel. Confining a prey/flight response animal in a small rattling, moving box. 

Taking a horse away from its paddock mates it cruel. 

How about getting its teeth filed? Very cruel. 
Shoes? Torture. 

Tell my horses how much their being abused by wearing a bit.... especially my gelding who opens his mouth for me. And my 2 year old who has only just been mouthed and already searches for the bit when I bring his bridle out. 

If your hands are quiet enough to not smack the horse in the mouth with a bit, then maybe the rider should go back to learning to ride with an independant seat. Otherwise, if you're a good enough rider not to be yanking on a horse's face, they don't have many objections to a well fitting, comfortable bit.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Hey guys, anyone wanna come start my two year old bridleless? I don't think I'm a real horsewomen, I'm too concerned to get on without some headgear. :lol:


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## EvilHorseOfDoom (Jun 17, 2012)

SorrelHorse said:


> Hey guys, anyone wanna come start my two year old bridleless? I don't think I'm a real horsewomen, I'm too concerned to get on without some headgear. :lol:


I will, if you'll ride Brock bitless - whichever of us ends up in hospital last gets a snazzy wheelchair as a prize!  :think:


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Seriously though, I'll bite.

This is my mare bridleless.










I can rope like that. I can play with some cows. I can lope (Not run) a barrel pattern like that. I can do a reining or eq pattern like that too.

Here's the question though. Why the hell would I do that?

Sure I can rope like that, but she's a cowhorse. Without the bridle cue, she won't stop long enough for the string to break. She'll chase that cow until she tramples it. That turns a three second run into a five second one. There goes a check from the jackpot.

I can play with cows. But again, she's a cowhorse, and a **** aggressive one. She'll chase the cow regardless of my opinion. She'll listen maybe, but she's delayed. There's no finesse with that.

I can lope a barrel pattern with that neck rope. But there's no way for me to pick up her shoulder. No way for me to set her up. If I ever asked her to run she'd fall on her face and kill us both, or have to recover by going wide.

Sure I can rein like that. But there's no finesse. She won't ever be perfectly in frame like that. She'll occasionally look to the outside of a circle. She won't have any support form the bridle in the stop. Same with the spin and lead change. No support, no cues from me placing her body, no finesse. Sure we might do okay, but a bridle is the differance between a neutral score and a +1 or +1 1/2. Surely you, miss owner of a three time world reining champion, can understand that.

Now let's explore a little more into the bits here, shall we?

My transition goes like this: 

Loose rein french link/lifesaver snaffle.
Myler Comfort Snaffle Level 2
Jr. Cowhorse (Smooth w/ copper roller) or short shank Billy Allen

From there, it's anywhere. O ring combo dogbone bit, pozzi lifter, low port short shank, medium port S shank, little S hack, Jim Warner Hack, Sherry Cervi Diamond Lifter, Sweet Six, Simplicity, Loomis, Draw Gags, whatever.

If the horse likes it, works good in it, doesn't fight, by all means, STAY IN IT. Selena has a differant bit for every event. Smooth eggbutt for English. Low port short shank for roping. Billy Allen long shank for reining/cowhorse, Short shank Jr. Cowhorse for gaming and speed events, O ring combo bit for trail riding. Why? Because that's how she works.

Am I cruel in my choices? I do not believe so. I'm not here to play "true horsewoman" with someone on a forum. I'm here to chat and have fun, and then go out and ride with finesse. You flat out cannot get that in a rope halter. Bosals do not even have the same action as a rope halter, contrary to popular belief.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

EvilHorseOfDoom said:


> I will, if you'll ride Brock bitless - whichever of us ends up in hospital last gets a snazzy wheelchair as a prize!  :think:


*gasp* Can mine be a purple wheelchair if I win?? Then can we get "Para-Barrel Racing" in the WEG? :lol:


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

I think maybe you have a bit too bias idea of what bits are about, and perhaps about riding horses. But then I used to think exactly the same, so I'm not gonna judge you. I think a good place to begin is that, ideally, a bit has nothing to do with controlling a horse. If a person needs to have any contraption to “control” their horse, they, or whoever, haven’t trained it properly, and no bit is going to control a horse that really wants to go. What bits should be about is communicating what you want to the horse. However I think the trouble is that too many people do think bits are about controlling their horses and so we see the emergence of various bits that are harsher than the last one; and then there’s many bits that, to someone who is naive about their use look very harsh but in reality, if used how they are intended, are about as gentle a piece of equipment you could ever use on a horse. 
I hackamore train horses with the long term aim of getting, at least the ones I own, into a full bridle with a Santa Barbara spade bit (and just to give you a little perspective I personally think most people shouldn’t be allowed to ride with a rope halter like a hackamore, they can be quite nasty on a horse). In this process of training a horse the bit has nothing to do with control but about allowing the horse to pick up clear instructions through minute changes in the balance of the bit and your seat. Changes too minute for most bits to convey clearly; and in such a way that the bit has little to no contact on the horses jaw. That type of bit is designed to be picked up and held by the horse in its lips and tongue and carried on its poll, not resting in the bars of its mouth. So why use one? That’s a decent question because you have to have the horse to a high level of refinement in a hackamore before you think of putting the bit in its mouth; which suggests you could forgo the bit and just use a rawhide bosal. And indeed you can. The reason for using the bit is mainly double, 1) that it allows for more refined signals than even the most finely made and well balanced light bosal mecate combination, 2) because since even a bosal has direct contact constantly on what it is working on, even thought the signal is the cue, not direct pressure, a horse can potentially still harden to it given enough time. Can a spade bit be harsh? Hell yeah, if you go pulling the reins firmly, much less jerking on them; should they be harsh? Absolutely not, indeed they are designed to be so soft that they hardly touch the horses gums, if at all. 
Like others have said, its usually not the bit thats bad but the person using it. There are some exceptions, like the spiky Indian driving bit (see the worst invention thread) but they are designed from the outset to be harsh.


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## Sandi B (Mar 25, 2012)

*Bitless at last!*

I have had my horse for little over a year and never felt that I was steering well at all. I must say that I have not had time to ride much due to my husband's heart problems (I stay close to him) but I had no confidence. Also he (my horse!) was trained Western, I was trained English and I fight my dyslexia every day. 
Lately I have been getting slapped in the face with bitless articles everywhere I look, Something is trying to tell me Something. So last night I took the reins off his bridle and put them on his halter and we had such a better ride, more connection and 100% more success. My Jacey was a school horse and likely was sick to death of having his mouth hauled on by learners. I think he also sensed that I hated him having a bit in his mouth, I have hated bits since I read Black Beauty as a child and I also have a fast gag reflex so event he thought of one gags me. Before last night I would cry after riding at my own clumsiness at communicating, last night I felt on top of the world.
PS why do they not make "Smilies" with horses on them?????


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Sandi, what the hell has dyslexia got to do with riding? I too am dyslexic but it does not affect your riding as it is a difficulty with the written word not with balance or coordination


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## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

faye said:


> Sandi, what the hell has dyslexia got to do with riding? I too am dyslexic but it does not affect your riding as it is a difficulty with the written word not with balance or coordination


That's what I was thinking! :rofl: I was diagnosed with dyslexia at a young age, it just means I get things backwards sometimes, doesn't mean I can't steer a horse.

Just so I add something contributing to the thread; I enjoy riding my seasoned and well trained trail horse in a mechanical hack, because SHE enjoys it, she responds in it much better than anything else we've tried. The only thing that rivals it is her full cheek snaffle, and that's what I have guests and family ride her in because the hack DOES have the potential to be harmful and takes a skilled hand to properly weild. 

My new girl is in a snaffle for her training, but she seems much quieter in her halter... so once she graduates we'll probably be trying her in a little s (well wrapped and padded) to see how she likes it.

Bits or bitless, neither matters to me except which one my horse responds better in, it's a silly thing to nag someone about and unless the bit doesn't fit both the RIDER and the horse, then I'm not about to get on someones neck and breathe abuse on their conscience about it :?


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## Sandi B (Mar 25, 2012)

I do not know if it is actual (dr. sanctioned) dyslexia but I mostly cannot tell my right from my left and have a hard time understanding bending my horse with one leg when I want him to turn the other way. You should see me try to fold the flaps of a box so it closes!


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## Sandi B (Mar 25, 2012)

It it s whole lot easier to call it Visual Dyslexia than admit I am stupid, un-coordinated and generally an idiot, eh?
I do not mean any disrespect to real dyslexics, but what else can I call it and have some shards of self-respect and keep on trying? I suffer from a deep chronic depression and PTSD, when I fail it really cripples me and it is hard to go on.
Sorry, I seem to have derailed this thread! I was just trying to celebrate my success going bitless.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

When I trained and showed my mare we used three bits. The snaffle was for general schooling at home. The curb was when we were working on western pleasure. The hackamore was games. In time she knew the difference. She learned that with the hack we were going for speed. At the show some mixed up pleasure/trail classes with games and she transitioned well with the bit changes.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Sandi B said:


> I have had my horse for little over a year I think he also sensed that I hated him having a bit in his mouth.


Stop anthropomorphizing your horse. He has absolutely_ no_ clue that you hate bits, based on reading a children's book back when you were young and impressionable. 

I also don't know where you read in Black Beauty that bits are horrible and cruel, because I've reread it multiple times and _never_ came away with that idea. Checkreins and overchecks when they're done to the point of the horse not being able to get their head down yes, but bits? Nope.

If YOU don't want to use a bit, then don't. Just stop with all the soppy sentimentalism about how bits are_ so cruel_ and horses HATE them. Neither assumption is correct. What horses hate are ham fisted riders who yank on their mouths. If you don't have the finesse or training to ride bitted without hurting the animal, that doesn't make the_ tool_ at fault.

Besides, bitless bridles aren't easy and gentle either, in the wrong hands. They put pressure on sensitive areas of the horse's face, jaw and poll, and if the pressure is too hard it HURTS. So much for bitless being 'gentler' than bits. :?

I've had horses for 34 years. None of mine have ever been traumatized because I use bits.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Sandi, it doesnt sound like dyslexia, sounds more like dyspraxia which is a lack of coordination.

Before you start claiming you have it though it is best to get it officialy diagnosed.
Dyslexia is diagnosed by an educational psycologist not a doctor.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

If dislexics wear a watch or bracelet always on the left arm can this not help them realize left from right. A teacher yesterday mentioned that years ago he'd given the 6 dislexic kids in his class watches to always wear on "that" arm and to remember that it was the left hand. He said it made a huge difference for the kids.


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## Sandi B (Mar 25, 2012)

I give up, I was just trying to celebrate my small success. Thank you very much Faye for telling me of dyspraxia, I am looking it up now.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

yes you can use visual cues to help with dyslexia, whilst some struggle with the concept of left and right, dyslexia itself does not affect coordination, dyslexia is however often found in conjunction with dyspraxia but they are 2 distinct conditions with different symptoms and different coping mechanisms

I personaly paint the nails on my left hand a different colour to those on my right (currently cream on the right, blue on the left). I also have an addiction to coloured pens, this is a classic sign of dyslexia as it is a coping mechanism, different colours help enormously!


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

When I taught children to ride of course they wanted the saddle, bridle, like in the movies. I'd put the snaffle bridle on and the child would mount in the ring. Horse wouldn't move. I would explain to the child he doesn't trust that their hands might pull too hard, that it would hurt his mouth. I'd then switch him to a flat halter and he was good to go. Usually about the third or fourth lesson we'd try the snaffle again. The child would be thrilled as she recognized her advancement in hand skills.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Sandi B, if your horses perform better for you bitless, go bitless. There is nothing cruel about going bitless if your horse feels confident and happy and responds to you well. But I wouldn't celebrate it as an achievement, because it doesn't mean you've done something special. Maybe you read Black Beauty, but your horse didn't. Maybe using a bit made you feel angry or tense, and horses DO sense a tense, angry, frustrated rider. So by all means, feel free to go bitless if it works for you!

But that doesn't mean it gets the job done for all riders on all horses on all types of riding. Take a good look at post #23. Some horses will work cows without taking it personally. Some horses take a much more aggressive approach. My gelding will try very hard to do what someone wants. He is an extremely submissive horse. But he is more confident he is doing what his rider wants when he has a bit in his mouth, and that extra confidence helps him to relax. Mia is more high-strung. She was sold to me as perfect for a beginner, but she wasn't and isn't. If we go 50 yards without my messing with her mouth somehow, her head comes up and her ears turn back as if to say, "Are you still there? Are you awake? Are you taking care of me?" And if I take some slack out of a rein or use my seat to ask her for a different speed, she calms down.

She is an 11 year old horse with a lot of deep seated fears. We're working on that, but it takes a lot of time. I rode her for 3 years without a bit, and now ride her with one. She is more relaxed and confident with a bit than without. So should I celebrate achieving bitted riding with her?

Well, in a sense, yes. Anytime you figure out a way to make your horse more relaxed and confident, THAT is cause for celebration. But I'd honestly feel a bit silly if I boasted that my horses now use bits. I might as well boast that my horses now have saddles that fit...

Mia with a bit, on a trail. *SHE* has pulled her head around and put tension on the outside rein. Does she look like a horse in pain? Is "Chestnut Beauty" suffering?










Hint - given the stiffness of my lower back, I'm the only one feeling pain in this picture...


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Saddlebag said:


> If dislexics wear a watch or bracelet always on the left arm can this not help them realize left from right.


Yes and no, if you tell me "away from my watch" or "toward my watch" I'm there, 100% turn on a dime, tell me "turn left" I have to look and check which side my watch is on, process the thought that there is my watch, my watch is on my left hand, turn toward my watch, *sigh* by then the moment has passed:rofl:


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

bsms said:


> Sandi B, if your horses perform better for you bitless, go bitless. There is nothing cruel about going bitless if your horse feels confident and happy and responds to you well. But I wouldn't celebrate it as an achievement, because it doesn't mean you've done something special. Maybe you read Black Beauty, but your horse didn't. Maybe using a bit made you feel angry or tense, and horses DO sense a tense, angry, frustrated rider. So by all means, feel free to go bitless if it works for you!
> 
> But that doesn't mean it gets the job done for all riders on all horses on all types of riding. Take a good look at post #23. Some horses will work cows without taking it personally. Some horses take a much more aggressive approach. My gelding will try very hard to do what someone wants. He is an extremely submissive horse. But he is more confident he is doing what his rider wants when he has a bit in his mouth, and that extra confidence helps him to relax. Mia is more high-strung. She was sold to me as perfect for a beginner, but she wasn't and isn't. If we go 50 yards without my messing with her mouth somehow, her head comes up and her ears turn back as if to say, "Are you still there? Are you awake? Are you taking care of me?" And if I take some slack out of a rein or use my seat to ask her for a different speed, she calms down.
> 
> ...


Isn't your horse a bay? What were you both looking at? She's very pretty & looks happy too.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I don't know horse colors. She is 'reddish brown' to me. We were waiting for the others behind us to catch up. The picture was taken with a zoom from about 150 yards away.

As she gains in confidence, she is getting more impatient with other horses. Lately, I've had to turn her back to the other horse because she doesn't like standing around waiting. We just started working on going out alone, and I think she is going to like it as long as I build her confidence slowly. But 11 months ago, the trainer I hired to work with her problems said, after 4 sessions, that some horses have fears that can't be trained out of them. It was the next session where she concluded the horse I had ridden for 3 years actually had never been broken to ride at all. It has been a long slog up, but the progress has been huge since that day!


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

I can ride both my mare and gelding with a halter at a walk and trot, but I am hesitant to ask for a canter, though i have done so before. My horses know the difference between a bridle and a halter, and know that a bridle means work, but a halter means we're just playing around.

The horse I've sold can be ridden at all gaits with just a halter and he's a four year old gelding who was gelded only six weeks ago. Even when he was a stallion, I rode him at all gaits around mares, with just a halter... he's never responded as well to a bit as he does with a halter.


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## Toymanator (Jul 31, 2009)

You would be doing your horse more good by developing your hands and seat, then by riding it in a rope halter. The rope halter does not allow you the proper communication you need to create a clear precise signal. Riding horses is all about communication between you and a horse, when communication isn't clear a horse can become frustrated or disgruntled. Spend your money on a quality bit, designed and engineered to the horses mouth. Not just engineered to provide tongue relief, a bit geared towards tongue relief often only moves the pressure to the bars and creates the horse to brace with it's tongue. This all leads to an uncomfortable horse, but in all reality the proper hands can work well with most bits. You should be more proud of the hands and seat you have developed than the fact that you can ride your horse without a bit in its mouth. But that is just one man's opinion...


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## KSL (Oct 4, 2012)

riccil0ve said:


> Obviously, some horses will not do well in any bit. However, without trying every bit, you don't know that your horse doesn't like any bit. Some horses have low palettes and are harder to bit, some have neglected teeth, some have injuries, etc etc.
> 
> If I just wanted a horse that would go easily on a trail/pleasure ride, I would keep my little one in a halter. However, we will eventually get into dressage. I cannot, ever, train her to piaffe in a flat nylon halter with broad, imprecise cues. Once she learns how, sure, but not to train it.
> 
> ...


We live on a working ranch so I do a little of everything. Cutting, working calves, trail riding, packing... Really just anything I need them for that day. I compete lightly in local cutting and penning competitions when I have time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

Since we just trail ride we have the luxury of putting the horse in whatever they work best in vs. shows/disciplines that require certain bits. We have one that rides bitless, one that just left who rode in a short-shanked curb, and a new one I'm trying in various bits to see what he likes best. Horses are living creatures and they do have preferences - some prefer the contact of a snaffle while others prefer neck reining and don't like direct contact. Some do well bitless while others have sensitive noses and don't like the nose pressure.

With that said - I don't think them carrying a bit (with kind hands) is a big horrible issue when we care for them and provide their nice safe homes for them.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

faye said:


> yes you can use visual cues to help with dyslexia, whilst some struggle with the concept of left and right, dyslexia itself does not affect coordination, dyslexia is however often found in conjunction with dyspraxia but they are 2 distinct conditions with different symptoms and different coping mechanisms
> 
> I personaly paint the nails on my left hand a different colour to those on my right (currently cream on the right, blue on the left). I also have an addiction to coloured pens, this is a classic sign of dyslexia as it is a coping mechanism, different colours help enormously!


Faye, I have only met one other dyslexic individual.....and I worked for him. It took me a while to realize he was dyslexic, one of the staff where we worked finally told me after he was screaming and pointing at a gate saying 'stand at this gate!!!!' and then no more than ten seconds later he was screaming 'no no no, I said stand at THAT gate!!!!' completely pointing in the opposite direction! :lol:
After a while I made a note of double checking with him about, where and how and when! He was a good guy! He just laughed when I told him what he'd done (we had over 200 head of sheep to take through some gates!)


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

bsms said:


> I do object to people who haven't met my horses telling me bitless is better.


Can I love this????:lol:
Riding a horse in a halter is not a final goal. I start my colts in a halter, not end up in one.

Sure I can ride all of mine in a halter and rope off of them, just like SH said, if need be. 
I own four horses now, all of them are different on bit or headgear choices and how it is adjusted. When I used to have 10 horses in my string, I had a bridle for each one. I don't get rid of bits unless I have duplicates because it is trial and error finding a bit that a horse likes and works well in, it is up to us to figure it out.
A halter is not a "one size fits all" solution....that is an uneducated assumption.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

COWCHICK77 said:


> A halter is not a "one size fits all" solution....that is an uneducated assumption.


 
:clap: :clap: :clap:


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## old97fan (Sep 14, 2012)

It would seem to me that whatever you use should be what is best and appropriate for the sum of what the horse and rider need for optimum communication. Some horses do do better with a bit, some better with a halter. Some riders also are the same. There are horrific bits out there and some that are just enough to do the job. Halters are the same. I've seen ones knotted in such a way as to practicly rub a hole in a horse and others that were so badly missized that they could become a noose.

The one thing I have noticed is it seems that people on both sides of this issue think their way is superior for whatever reason. In my eyes, those people are limited by their prejudice and I have less faith in them to be open minded enough to recognize that sometimes, their way is just wrong when trying to solve a problem with a horse.

I've seen people who have trained horses their whole life do things with a halter or even a neck rope that bit people claim can only be obtained with a bit. I can't count how many times I've seen horses that were genuinely confused because the halter wasn't working for them or their owner. Neither is superior, only different, and ultimately only effective when used where it's needed by a horseperson who is actually taking the time to see what is actually needed for that horse and that person, in that circumstance.

Hopefully, all of us will pay attention enough to what is going on with the horse and rider that we won't have the ultimate goal of going halter only, bit only, or whatever, but what is correct for that combination.


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## old97fan (Sep 14, 2012)

oops sorry


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I ride my horse with a mild curb bit. She is perfectly happy in it. I rarely actually use it. When I do need to communicate with her, I can do so with a gentle touch. Communicating with a halter can hurt their face, and you lose all the fine tuning control. 

If you want to go all natural, you should not ride at all. Riding is not natural.


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## KSL (Oct 4, 2012)

People went wayyyyyyy off track. 

I am NOT saying ride in a halter all the time everyday and that bits are bad. I'm saying why use one when you don't need one. And, that you SHOULD be able to ride with only a rope halter at any given time. Not that you should always, but you should be able to control your horse that well. 

I ride in a rope halter a lot.. Why? Because I don't "need" a bit on my daily rides. When I do need one for whatever reason, I use one. 

Do I think they are bad? No. But I do think its selfish to use one when it isn't needed and to not have your horse trained to ride in only a rope halter. Emergencys happen. I had a friend out riding in a bit and the horse broke its bridle. If that horse couldn't have been ridden in a halter or the rider wouldn't have known how her horse responded to one, it could have been a terrible experience.

Use a bit if you need one but you SHOULD have your horse responsive enough to ride without it is the main point here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## old97fan (Sep 14, 2012)

Mostly with you KSL. Ive just seen a few horses that really don't care for the halter. Usually, they were fairly insecure ones for whatever reason and wanted the constant reminder from a bit.


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## StarfireSparrow (Jan 19, 2009)

KSL said:


> You wouldn't "love" a metal bar stuck in your mouth. Tolerate it well, maybe.


With all due respect, I find this particular argument a bit silly. The way a humans mouth is built, we are not able to accommodate a bit. As long as the bit in question is shaped to follow the curve of the horses mouth, there is no reason to believe that simply carrying a bit causes them any discomfort.

However, a more direct rebuttal would be: Explain tongue rings.


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## MangoRoX87 (Oct 19, 2009)

Probably because I ride a spunky 5 year old who would probably laugh at me if I rode her in a rope halter.



But I have always wondered..who's idea, in the beginning stages of man riding horses, decided, "AH HA! We put rock in horse mouth. Rock make horse whoa whoa."


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## MangoRoX87 (Oct 19, 2009)

Also, you should watch said 5 year old grab at the bit. If she hated it, she wouldn't be trying to put it in her mouth.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

KSL said:


> ...I'm saying why use one when you don't need one. And, that you SHOULD be able to ride with only a rope halter at any given time. Not that you should always, but you should be able to control your horse that well...


Define need one. I could ride my horses tomorrow bitless and they would do OK. But if they work better WITH a bit, then it would be arrogant of me to ride bitless for my own pride. What would be the point? So I could tell others how superior I am for going bitless? If my horse is more relaxed and confident with a bit, then why would I go bitless?

If I care about my horses, I'll do what is best for THEM. And Trooper and Mia have both been ridden bitless many times - for 3 years - and they ride better with a bit than without. So I'll do what is best for them...and that means riding with a bit.


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

Fair enough, but I would reiterate my original point; bits don’t, or at least shouldn’t, control horses. And, forgive me if Im wrong, but it appears you are making a judgement that a rope halter is more gentile on a horse than a bit; after all why, if you don’t think they are bad is it selfish to ride in a bit if you don’t have to? What is selfish about using a bit if you use it to communicate fine signals to a horse that is trained to understand them? And what the hell was your friend doing to break her/his bridle? Again, I don’t want to give you the idea that I'm judging you. Years ago I thought bits were just outright cruel and decided I'd only ride in a hackamore, to this day I count my lucky stars that I did think like that because it lead me to learn how to train horses in the californio style, but I'm also more than happy to admit that I was totally wrong about bits and that they are not cruel in and of themselves. And though, pound for pound I'd argue that a hackamore (rawhide bosal, mecate, headstall, fiodore) probably doesn’t have the potential to do as much damage as a bit, they can still be a nasty bit of work if one wanted to use one as such, as could a rope halter. If used properly what is selfish about riding with a bit?


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## nikelodeon79 (Mar 3, 2008)

KSL: what people are trying to say is WHY should horses be able to be ridden in a rope halter since to some horses, a rope halter is actually more severe than a bit. Some horses just plain don't like pressure on their noses like that.

And why a ROPE halter? Why not a regular halter? Our completely bridleless? If you're trying to make the point that all our horses should be so well trained we shouldn't need bits, why pick something that is essentially a bit alternative?

BTW I rode my, QH in a bosal or curb, but didn't really need them. Mostly the reins laid slack and I communicated with leg pressures. I think he prefered the bit because he would turn his head and open his mouth for the bit, but seemed put off when he saw it was the bosal. 

I rode my Arab with an indian hackamore. I rode my pony with a snaffle. My new horse will be a dressage horse so I'm planning on starting with a loose ring snaffle.

As far as the off topic stuff being discussed, I never realized issues with telling left from right was part of dyslexia. I have to pretend to write in the air to tell which way is right and which is left. It hasn't really affected my riding too much because I don't think in terms of left and right, but instead just think: I want to go "that way." 

I also have a hard time telling time, I have bipolar disorder, adhd, and celiac disease. Do I win some sort of a prize? :-D

Sorry, thought we were playing "who's the most messed up." VBG
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EvilHorseOfDoom (Jun 17, 2012)

nikelodeon79 said:


> KSL: what people are trying to say is WHY should horses be able to be ridden in a rope halter since to some horses, a rope halter is actually more severe than a bit. Some horses just plain don't like pressure on their noses like that.
> 
> And why a ROPE halter? Why not a regular halter? Our completely bridleless? If you're trying to make the point that all our horses should be so well trained we shouldn't need bits, why pick something that is essentially a bit alternative?
> 
> ...


I see your bipolar, adhd and celiac and raise it with bipolar, anxiety, arrhythmia and rheumatoid arthritis 

fftopic:


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I still cannot see one legitimate reason why the OP would have posted this except to flaunt and call people out on something.

Someone must of been bored.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

AnrewPL - I'd argue that hackamores can be more severe that a bit pound for pound. I've seen a horse who had a broken nose due to a gerrman hackamore.


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

if you ride in a bit make sure it doesnt interfere with the horses anatomy, and if you ride bitless make sure whatever you use wont damage the horses face, other than that you can split hairs until your heart's content.

the other end of the reins is so much more important that i now no longer care enough to have a preference.


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

faye, when I use the word hackamore I only mean rawhide bosal, horse hair mecate and perhaps a fiadore; as for the rest I regard them as mechanical hackamores, I have never used one, don’t know how to use one and don’t know what they are for, and probably never will use one.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

KSL said:


> People went wayyyyyyy off track.
> 
> I am NOT saying ride in a halter all the time everyday and that bits are bad. I'm saying why use one when you don't need one. And, that you SHOULD be able to ride with only a rope halter at any given time. Not that you should always, but you should be able to control your horse that well.
> 
> ...


So it seems your horses aren't as well trained & responsive as they were in your first post.


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## Sandi B (Mar 25, 2012)

All I was trying to say was that I was having trouble "steering" with a bit and when I tried bitless(I will try anything for my horse) I got so much more out of my boy, he was happy (not anthromorphizing here!) and cooperative. I was "celebrating" - for lack of a better word - that with my own personal "challenges" I was finally making progresss, however small. I was not saying that anyone else was wrong in what they do, I was just hoping for an *encouraging* sort of "good for you, new rider" kind of thing. That is all, folks. I will shut up now.


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## nikelodeon79 (Mar 3, 2008)

Sandi B said:


> All I was trying to say was that I was having trouble "steering" with a bit and when I tried bitless(I will try anything for my horse) I got so much more out of my boy, he was happy (not anthromorphizing here!) and cooperative. I was "celebrating" - for lack of a better word - that with my own personal "challenges" I was finally making progresss, however small. I was not saying that anyone else was wrong in what they do, I was just hoping for an *encouraging* sort of "good for you, new rider" kind of thing. That is all, folks. I will shut up now.


It is fantastic that you found something that works well for your horse. When I was first training my QH, Cody, I was at my wits end because he would NOT work in a snaffle. He didn't understand neck reining, so I couldn't try a curb. My farrier recommended trying a mechanical hackamore (which, btw, is NOT a "cruel torture device" when used properly") and I got to have that AHA! moment of pure bliss when I watched him finally "get it" and start responding to my cues.

So, Sandy B, GOOD JOB to you, for finding what works well with your horse. I will caution you one thing, though: just because he responded well in a regular halter with reins attached doesn't mean he always will. I could ride my Cody bridleless in the arena but I wouldn't dare try it on the trail. The trail is an entirely different story and it's important to have some "stopping power." Nothing scarier than being on the back of a horse that's bolting like a runaway freight train. 

THAT is why I do have a bias against rope halters, etc. because so many people hear the "bits are cruel!" argument and decide their horse needs to be in a rope halter RIGHT NOW and so they throw their bits away and buy whatever trainer's "horse friendly" device happens to be popular at that moment. All it does is put them at risk and probably sets their horses' training back since they don't understand the cues given with a rope halter (which feel completely different to them than with a bit). 

So, if you want to continue to ride your horse bitless, I would recommend finding a hackamore, etc. that's actually meant for riding. Look into indian hackamores. I used a nice, soft one made of all nylon (not like the wicked looking ones with knots, etc.) that worked FANTASTIC on my Arab. He responded to just a slight rein movement, yet still would respect the "whoa," even in an emergency.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

KSL said:


> You wouldn't "love" a metal bar stuck in your mouth. Tolerate it well, maybe.


This right there makes your argument invalid. A horse's mouth and a human's mouth are COMPLETELY different. In a horse's mouth, there is a gap between the front teeth and the back teeth, and a bit fits just nicely in there. In a human's mouth, a bit is unbearably uncomfortable, because we don't have that gap.

Bits have been used for centuries. So have halters/hackamores/bosals. It's all down to what works best for the individual horse and its rider.

MY gelding is softer in a halter (flat or rope), but I still ride him in a bit most of the time. For me, the reason for using a bit at all is purely because I show and it's not legal to show without one. A mechanical hackamore is also acceptable in my discipline (I ride jumpers) but I refuse to use one as they are extremely harsh. To circumvent the comparative lack of softness, I ride my horse mostly off seat and leg aids. He responds well.

I haven't read the whole thread but I see it ALL the time in the pro-halter campaigners - "would YOU like a metal bar in your mouth?!" - and **** straight, I wouldn't like a metal bar in my mouth, but my mouth and my horse's mouth are completely different. The bit is DESIGNED to fit the horse's mouth, not the human's.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

AnrewPL said:


> faye, when I use the word hackamore I only mean rawhide bosal, horse hair mecate and perhaps a fiadore; as for the rest I regard them as mechanical hackamores, I have never used one, don’t know how to use one and don’t know what they are for, and probably never will use one.


Anrew, I have no doubt that a lot of horses do well in a bosal; however, I had a horse that I rode in one for a while and I had two problems. First off, I had no fine tuning control or communication. Second, I noticed that he was losing hair on his nose. When I felt of it, he was obviously sore.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Celeste said:


> Anrew, I have no doubt that a lot of horses do well in a bosal; however, I had a horse that I rode in one for a while and I had two problems. First off, I had no fine tuning control or communication. Second, I noticed that he was losing hair on his nose. When I felt of it, he was obviously sore.


A good quality bosal has quite a bit of feel and if it fits and used properly it shouldn't sore a horse. If it rubbed the hair off the bridge of the nose, it is just doing that rubbing up and down rather rolling when you pick up your hands/reins.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

PunksTank said:


> Honestly, I find a number of mild bits even gentler than many rope halters. Rope halters with thin rope or knots on the soft pressure points of their faces can be seriously painful. I used this example before, but I (a barely 5 foot tall girl) can take down a full grown man wit the use of pressure points, and you can ask him, the pressure HURTS. There are a large number of mild bits designed for riding and communicating more clearly than a rope halter anyway.
> 
> Look at mullen mouth unbroken snaffles, or french link snaffles, or bumper sweet water curbs, or those soft rubber bits (not talking about happy mouths, talking about the ones made completely out of rubber that's a straight bar and bends in their mouth). Inside the horse's mouth the horse has the ability to move and hold the bit with their tongue and angle their heads in a way to relieve all pressure. With a rope halter they can't relieve excessive pressure or the mild pressure of it simply resting on them, like they can with a bit.
> These are those bits I was referring to:
> ...


Just feel the need to repeat _all_ of that as it seems to have been completely lost.

OP I completely agree with the aspect that you should be able to control your horse in the piece of tack that makes your horse the most comfortable. I also completely agree with Andrew, _bits are not for control_ and anyone using bits for control are doing it all wrong, which I think is what the OP is actually trying to say.
Bitted and bitless bridles are objects to translate human to horse what we want our horse to do. The kindest thing you can do for your horse is use a bridle that translates_ clearly and quietly._ 

I am going to be completely honest here people should _not_ ride in rope halters. A rope halter is far more severe than any bit I have in my tack room, if I have to resort to using one, it'll be on the ground where the communication is clear. Rope halters are NOT designed to be ridden in they shift out of place and can cause damage to the horse's nose and face. Rope halters slide all up and down their face causing rubs and sores and don't apply pressure to the correct places every time. 

If you choose to ride bitless please do your research! Rope halters are not "a kind alternative", there are a number of bitless options that have more clear communication.


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## KSL (Oct 4, 2012)

natisha said:


> So it seems your horses aren't as well trained & responsive as they were in your first post.


No, they are. I can ride them in whatever I want and have no changes in their response, Sensitivity or behavior. I was just saying that isn't right for EVERYONE ELSE but you should be about to control your horse without a bit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Sandi B said:


> All I was trying to say was that I was having trouble "steering" with a bit and when I tried bitless(I will try anything for my horse) I got so much more out of my boy, he was happy (not anthromorphizing here!) and cooperative. I was "celebrating" - for lack of a better word - that with my own personal "challenges" I was finally making progresss, however small. I was not saying that anyone else was wrong in what they do, I was just hoping for an *encouraging* sort of "good for you, new rider" kind of thing. That is all, folks. I will shut up now.


I understand your excitement & I'm glad you found something that will work for you & your horse.
Many times I get a horse in for training that doesn't understand a bit though the owner has been using one. We use a side pull or other bitless bridle until the horse learns cues & lightness. It doesn't take long to transfer those signals to a bit if one chooses to.
I've never ridden in a rope halter but I see lots more people on the trails riding with one so they do work for some horses & people. 
Use what works.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

In a perfect world with perfect horses that have been perfectly trained before we buy them and are all placid and never do anything unpredictable or feel like just running for the sheer fun of it now and again
How easy life would be - or how boring?
I should maybe take a video of 3 of our horses who when you hold the bridle up in front of them will actually almost put it on themselves - if they found the bit so painful and unpleasant I dont think they would do that
There is no need to be hauling away at a horses mouth if you (or someone else) trained it correctly and you know how to ride correctly
All my horses will ride bitless but they are definitely more fine tuned in a bit and I know for a fact that if they do decide to get a bit too 'forward' or something spooks them and they did try to bolt I can hold them better in a bit so safety is also a factor. 
As for a rope halter being mild - well when our Clyde cross who is very strong decides to have her 'I want to lead in at a much faster pace than you do' moments I can hold her way better in a rope halter than I can in a leather or nylon one which says to me it puts a lot more pressure on her nose and hurts quite a bit when she pulls against it.
*OP* Riding bitless (not including most mechanical hackamores) has nothing to do with how good a rider you are or how well trained your horses are but more to do with the type of horse you own and what you do with it. 
If you dont understand this then you haven't ridden and experienced many horse in your life so have no right to judge anyone.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

KSL said:


> No, they are. I can ride them in whatever I want and have no changes in their response, Sensitivity or behavior. I was just saying that isn't right for EVERYONE ELSE but you should be about to control your horse without a bit.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I guess I got confused when you said you sometmes use a bit after stating that those who do are selfish or have under trained horses.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

natisha said:


> I guess I got confused when you said you sometmes use a bit after stating that those who do are selfish or have under trained horses.


Whassa matter, natisha? You don't understand when people talk out of both sides of their mouths? :lol:


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

I used a mechanical hackamore on my horse for many years. This was before all the fancy bitless one came out (I'm dating myself). However, she was first trained with a bit, leg & seat cues & neck reined beautifully. A loose rein & neck reining is a must with a MH.
I started using it when I was too lazy to warm a bit for winter riding-we both liked it so kept using it.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

PunksTank said:


> ...I am going to be completely honest here people should _not_ ride in rope halters. A rope halter is far more severe than any bit I have in my tack room, if I have to resort to using one, it'll be on the ground where the communication is clear. Rope halters are NOT designed to be ridden in they shift out of place and can cause damage to the horse's nose and face. Rope halters slide all up and down their face causing rubs and sores and don't apply pressure to the correct places every time...


I've got to disagree with this. I rode my horses for 3 years using a sidepull halter made of thin rope. It was NOT severe. Mia & I did a number of bolts with them, and had an epic 2 hour battle where she would NOT stop long enough for me to dismount - and she 'won' BTW, since it was getting dark and I ended up jumping off of her. But while I pulled mighty darn hard, and did a LOT of it, she was not damaged other than about 1/2" of hair removed in a narrow strip on top of her nose. Given the hundreds of times we spun around that evening, that is minimal wear & tear!

I now prefer bits because SHE seems to prefer bits, but a rope halter like these (taken about 3.5 years ago) would make it pretty tough to hurt a horse as much as you can with a bit:










There is a slightly different rope halter I started using shortly after the picture above, and it now rides under her bridle when we go on trail rides:


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Speed Racer said:


> Whassa matter, natisha? You don't understand when people talk out of both sides of their mouths? :lol:


LOL, not too often :wink:


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

I hate all the horsey "fads" going around. You want to bitless, fly at it, but stop telling me I'm cruel for puting a bit in my horses mouth. My mare readily takes a bit. She rides just as well in a bit as a halter.

People stand on their soap boxes and yell about cruelty. You want to know an unnatural thing humans get to wear?? how about bras? Oh so unnatural and restricting. How dare those mothers make their daughters wear them!!! And your horses saddle? totally cruel. But wait, bareback over long distances is cruel too, so their is only one opption left. To be a good horse owner I simply have to allow them to not ever be ridden, and live out their lives in the pasture.

I would say horses with bit problems are probably caused

1) 80% by uneducated, rough hands. Yes the horse will go better in a halter because you have stopped jarring on their mouth. OR you could learn to use your hands properly?

2)The wrong bit for the horses mouth. Some have shallow pallets. Some love copper, some hate it. Some like this mouth peices, some dont.

3) pain issue/mental. If a horse has been scarred mentally by cruel hands, or they have teeth issues.

I can ride my mare in a halter, in several different bits, in a side pull or with a string around her neck. I have very soft hands, and I find the most clear line of communication is with a bit.

I've also had the misfortune of watching many people that stand on their soap boxes preaching cruelty loose control of their bitless horses. Seen them run into other horses, or get run away with.

And beware the "bitless are gentle" line of thought. they can be every bit as cruel in the wrong hands.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Bsms looks to me like yours was designed for riding with the reins smartly attached lower on the nose band, with the halter fitting more snuggly than a typical rope halter. This would eliminate the biggest problem. The biggest problem i see is when people clip or tie reins to either side of the rope halter thats designed for ground work, that doesn't fit snuggly. If it's loose and the reins are on the side then any pressure will cause the rope to rub up and down and twist the halter on the horses face. Your's seems to be designed to eliminate those issues. I like yours.
That being said, it's still got some bite, not much more or less than a bit but at least yours works techniqually speaking. My mare will not tolerate rope halters, let the head tossing ensue, which is why i nose fuzzy her indian hackamore. The cross under gave me the strength i needed but the fuzzy softened the pressure on her sensitive nose.

Every horse is different and every horse is going to have tack prefeences. Your horse seems to do very well with that piece of tack  thats exactly how it should be. But the piece of tack needs to be able to clearly and without pain convey the cue you're asking. Your looks like it would do that, but a typical rope halter would not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

KSL said:


> No, they are. I can ride them in whatever I want and have no changes in their response, Sensitivity or behavior. I was just saying that isn't right for EVERYONE ELSE but you should be about to control your horse without a bit.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok.....you ride in a parade, run barrels and go rope a cow without a bridle..(be sure to have 911 on your speed dial) ....you don't make sense, if you're just plodding around a farm all day, then so be it, don't use a bit....however I think if you were PUSHED into leaving your comfort zone, which I am suspecting is your back yard, you might have a change of heart.....


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Speed Racer said:


> Whassa matter, natisha? You don't understand when people talk out of both sides of their mouths? :lol:


 Funny that because a fan of a certain well loved Youtube trainer who describes bits as 'weapons of torture' (or something like that) was posting on another Youtube channel that this person actually has nothing against bits (or whips and spurs)
I see how easy it is to get confused now


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

BlueSpark said:


> You want to know an unnatural thing humans get to wear?? how about bras? Oh so unnatural and restricting. How dare those mothers make their daughters wear them!!!


If it weren't for fear of being knocked unconscious while trotting, I would happily ditch mine.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

COWCHICK77 said:


> I don't get rid of bits unless I have duplicates because it is trial and error finding a bit that a horse likes and works well in, it is up to us to figure it out.
> A halter is not a "one size fits all" solution....that is an uneducated assumption.


There you go, i is that simple, just find what your horse goes best in, he gets the final vote



nikelodeon79 said:


> "
> 
> Sorry, thought we were playing "who's the most messed up." VBG
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That'll be me, so thank you for playing, but no prize today




PunksTank said:


> Every horse is different and every horse is going to have tack prefeences.


Yes....same as food, blankets, type of work, living in or out, gotta work with it, or work to change it.


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## grayshell38 (Mar 9, 2009)

Some horses work better in a bit than in a hack or halter. They are individuals. Just because something works for one horse, doesn't mean it will work and be good for another. 

Case and point, my 24 year old mare. She's been there and done that. I tried to down grade her and put her in a bitless option, however, she absolutely hates face pressure. Flips her head, hollows through the back and just gets ****y. Put a simple snaffle on and she is a happy camper.


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## Bobthebuilder (Jan 8, 2012)

I'm going to start off asking the point of this thread- do you expect us all to say "aha! Bits ARE cruel. I've seen the wrong of my ways and will never use a bit again".
Then, you say all horses should be able to be ridden bitless. Can I ask why? That's a bit like saying all people should be able to run 10k in an hour. It'd be great, I'm sure, because we'd probably all look pretty fine, but it's not possible. A 2 year old can't do it. A 95 year old couldn't do it. Some people have old injuries/arthritis etc which would prevent them from doing so. Some people wouldn't see the point- and wouldn't do it. 
Similarly, some horses do not like face pressure. Some have had pasts that takes bitless off the table. You get where I'm going with this.
Secondly, says who? 
Generalization is usually not a good idea. As people have pointed out, horses are individuals. I put my mare in a micklem bridle once, no bit and she flipped out because she hated the pressure on her face. Try to put that bridle on her. She will not let you. 
Also, going on from that- if bits (which are a mean of finesse- not control) are cruel, then spurs and whips must be too. 
Go on, take my horse and ride her in an advance dressage test, bitless and no spurs. She has never had a hard mouth, mouth sore, whip mark or spur mark, ever.
Everything is cruel when used incorrectly. An umbrella could be used to poke someone's eye out. Does that mean they're torture devices? No. 
The majority of the horse world uses bits. 
The majority will not change because there is no reason to.
Also, there are so many worse things horses can be subjected to, that are really cruel (beating, starving, overgrown feet etc.). Perspective is key.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

I could ride my horse in a halter, she does fine.
I would prefer a bridle though.. halters slide around and could cause damage, not saying that a bit couldn't.. Even with a bridle you really don't have to use the bit to control the horse. For a lot of people I know, it's just there to really define the cue with a slight touch that goes along with your body movement.


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## KSL (Oct 4, 2012)

Muppetgirl said:


> Ok.....you ride in a parade, run barrels and go rope a cow without a bridle..(be sure to have 911 on your speed dial) ....you don't make sense, if you're just plodding around a farm all day, then so be it, don't use a bit....however I think if you were PUSHED into leaving your comfort zone, which I am suspecting is your back yard, you might have a change of heart.....


I do WAY more than that and about 50% of the time I'm at the ranch riding (which is 140 acres) and the other 50% I'm out at arenas and national forest and working cattle with other people. So, before you act like you know what I do, ask first. 

You can't have a "comfort zone" with horses. If you do, you aren't ready to be a rider.


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## KSL (Oct 4, 2012)

Lexiie said:


> I could ride my horse in a halter, she does fine.
> I would prefer a bridle though.. halters slide around and could cause damage, not saying that a bit couldn't.. Even with a bridle you really don't have to use the bit to control the horse. For a lot of people I know, it's just there to really define the cue with a slight touch that goes along with your body movement.


And I commend you for being able to control your horse enough to be able to ride in a halter alone, some of the time.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

KSL said:


> I do WAY more than that and about 50% of the time I'm at the ranch riding (which is 140 acres) and the other 50% I'm out at arenas and national forest and working cattle with other people. So, before you act like you know what I do, ask first.
> 
> You can't have a "comfort zone" with horses. If you do, you aren't ready to be a rider.[/
> 
> ...


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

KSL said:


> I do WAY more than that and about 50% of the time I'm at the ranch riding (which is 140 acres) and the other 50% I'm out at arenas and national forest and working cattle with other people. So, before you act like you know what I do, ask first.
> 
> You can't have a "comfort zone" with horses. If you do, you aren't ready to be a rider.


 Well I'm glad that you do something with your horses which is more than a lot of the bitless brigade do
I disagree with the comfort zone thing though. One of the biggest causes of problems with horses and riders is that too many DONT realise what there comfort zone is and they expect to be able to do more than they or the horse is capable of which usually = a train wreck
The pathway to becoming a good rider is to take it one step at a time. There are many people who are quite happy to do no more than follow the trails on a docile well behaved horse and others that are only happy doing something reckless. The one is no less of a rider in terms of pleasure and what they get out of it
Someone trying to jump a 3'6 cross country fence before they have mastered a pole thats a foot off the ground is asking for trouble they are so far out of their comfort zone.
Theres a difference between aspiring to do something and training to get there and going out there like an idiot and jumping in at the deep end


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

KSL said:


> I do WAY more than that and about 50% of the time I'm at the ranch riding (which is 140 acres) and the other 50% I'm out at arenas and national forest and working cattle with other people. So, before you act like you know what I do, ask first.
> 
> You can't have a "comfort zone" with horses. If you do, you aren't ready to be a rider.


-rubs temples-

Anyone else still thinking this in an arrogance trip? 

I quit now. It's talking to a wall. We aren't going to win, because the OP won't settle on a position. There is legitimately no guns to try sticking to.

Bye guys.


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

Celeste. If you know how to use a bosal you can get horse doing everything nearly as precisely in the bosal as you can in a spade bit. Indeed the horse has to be going to an extremely high level of refinement before you even consider putting a bit in its mouth. All the sliding stops, the spinning, side passing, all on a loose rein needs to be there and silky smooth and soft in the bosal before you get to the bit; the idea that you cant get a horse to a good level of refinement in a bosal is nonsense. And if you had the bosal rub hair of the horse's nose and made it sore you haven’t learned to use it properly. a) you shouldn’t be using the kind of pressure on the bosal to do that in the first place, b) sometimes we do need a little more, and direct, pressure and thats what having the appropriate bosal mecate combination is about to maximise the surface area (and wrap felt/fleece around the bosal if need be) c) the bosal will rub at first a bit just by being on the horse and that is why you just don’t stick it on and leave it in one spot but periodically adjust the position of the bosal up and down the horses face, and the tightness of the mecate to distribute pressure until the horse is used to it, like the way a person's backside gets used to sitting in a saddle for long periods, and you transition from direct pressure to signal cues. Just because you had a sore nosed horse, don’t go blaming the equipment if you didn’t know what you were doing with it.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

AnrewPL said:


> Celeste. If you know how to use a bosal you can get horse doing everything nearly as precisely in the bosal as you can in a spade bit. Indeed the horse has to be going to an extremely high level of refinement before you even consider putting a bit in its mouth. All the sliding stops, the spinning, side passing, all on a loose rein needs to be there and silky smooth and soft in the bosal before you get to the bit; the idea that you cant get a horse to a good level of refinement in a bosal is nonsense. And if you had the bosal rub hair of the horse's nose and made it sore you haven’t learned to use it properly. a) you shouldn’t be using the kind of pressure on the bosal to do that in the first place, b) sometimes we do need a little more, and direct, pressure and thats what having the appropriate bosal mecate combination is about to maximise the surface area (and wrap felt/fleece around the bosal if need be) c) the bosal will rub at first a bit just by being on the horse and that is why you just don’t stick it on and leave it in one spot but periodically adjust the position of the bosal up and down the horses face, and the tightness of the mecate to distribute pressure until the horse is used to it, like the way a person's backside gets used to sitting in a saddle for long periods, and you transition from direct pressure to signal cues. Just because you had a sore nosed horse, don’t go blaming the equipment if you didn’t know what you were doing with it.


Yup, I've seen people who really know how to handle a BOSAL properly.....it's the YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO ANYTHING WITH YOUR HORSE IN JUST A HALTER AND LEAD ROPE that bothers most of us. A BOSAL is a completely different piece of equipment than a halter....if we didn't need a bit (or a BOSAL, if you know how to use it) then we wouldn't have invented one....
'necessity is the mother of all invention'.......


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

Oh yeah, and don’t think for a minute that if you are doing that to a horse's nose with a bosal you aren't doing it to their mouth with a bit.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

AnrewPL said:


> Oh yeah, and don’t think for a minute that if you are doing that to a horse's nose with a bosal you aren't doing it to their mouth with a bit.


That's right!


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## KSL (Oct 4, 2012)

You people take things WAY out of context. Geez.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

KSL said:


> You people take things WAY out of context. Geez.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't make me go back through all your posts here and in the other thread and copy paste all your comments....
You have insulted quite a few talented riders.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

KSL, I still want to know why you think a rope halter is so kind or such an advanced piece of tack. I could easily walk downstairs and ride my horse in a rope halter. It would result in a great deal of head tossing and a face-sore horse. 
What makes you think a rope halter is any more gentle or takes any more skill than a bitted bridle? The knots on the pressure points on the face of a horse are equal to if not worse than any mild-moderate bits. And assuming you're not using the very well designed one that BSMS showed, I'm assuming you're using the sort most people use as halters - those are improperly designed for riding in. The amount of shifting and pressure on those halters when reins are attached and pulled on cause rubs and pinching and pressure on soft pressure points. Honestly I don't see a rope halter as a kind tool, it's a tool for training horses in, not an ultimate goal.
Riding in a flat halter or bridle-less takes a responsive horse and a horse and rider who have solid body communication more than hand communication. This is an OK goal to shoot for, but not a competitive one. It should be every riders goal to communicate clearly with your horse using the mildest tools you and your horse are safe using. Riding without a bit or without a halter as strong as a rope halter can be dangerous, as response time isn't as immediate and there is no 'emergency brakes'. I don't think I'll ever see rope halters to be milder than average bits, so I don't see why you seem to think it's so much better to ride them in a rope halter?


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Unfortunately this huge onslaught of riding in only a halter has been a direct result of certian, not all, clinicians marketing. Obviously the marketing proved successful...


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

Muppetgirl said:


> if we didn't need a bit (or a BOSAL, if you know how to use it) then we wouldn't have invented one....
> 'necessity is the mother of all invention'.......


this is an assumption.



Muppetgirl said:


> it's the YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO ANYTHING WITH YOUR HORSE IN JUST A HALTER AND LEAD ROPE that bothers most of us


in a perfect world you should indeed be able to (eventually) have your horse do any movement you desire in any piece of tack (or an entire lack of tack), including a halter and lead rope. and if you (eventually) can't, then you are more than likely relying on your tack to control your horse rather than your knowledge of and of how to influence horse behaviour.


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## BubblesBlue (Jun 29, 2010)

Well there is one problem with all of this. 

We obviously don't have your experience oh and yeah, we aren't gods. Our riding skills will never reach that point. And what about kids? Do you really expect them to ride in just a halter and rope when their lives could be in danger from no control?
I see many holes in your thinking that could lead to injuries to others.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

christopher said:


> in a perfect world you should indeed be able to (eventually) have your horse do any movement you desire in any piece of tack (or an entire lack of tack), including a halter and lead rope. and if you (eventually) can't, then you are more than likely relying on your tack to control your horse rather than your knowledge of and of how to influence horse behaviour.


You're absolutely right! Every horse should know and understand how to respond in any piece of tack, or lack there of, every rider should be able to ride in every type of tack and lack there of. The only thing bothering me is that she seems to think a rope halter is gentler than a typical mild-moderate bit. Or that rope halters are better designed for riding. They're tools for training horses, and though you could ride in one, it's better to ride in what you and your horse do best in.


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

Oh this is just getting ridiculous. Can't we all just appreciate that we each have different goals with our horses. What is right for me may not be right for you. If you are having a good time with said horses and learning something along the way, then you are doing something right. 

The world ain't perfect and it ain't never gonna be. If I had all the time in the world, christopher, I might (great big might) reach that hefty goal. As it stands, my horses and I will have to suffer through my lack of knowledge and controlling tack.


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

double post.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

christopher said:


> this is an assumption.
> 
> 
> 
> in a perfect world you should indeed be able to (eventually) have your horse do any movement you desire in any piece of tack (or an entire lack of tack), including a halter and lead rope. and if you (eventually) can't, then you are more than likely relying on your tack to control your horse rather than your knowledge of and of how to influence horse behaviour.


Assumption or not......????

A perfect world doesn't exist, and this really upsets people who believe in having everything all fluffy and nice.......well I'm for sure a hard core realist......and the OPs posts are telling me that experience in the real world for her is seriously lacking.....
Anyone can ride in ANYTHING they want....just don't preach to people that they are not real horse people if they cannot ride their horse in a halter and a lead rope.....she posted in another thread a day or two ago and then started this one......
If your skilled enough to ride a 'bridle horse' in a spade bit and do it well, kudos to you! And if you are skilled enough to get on a horse completely bridle less like Stacy Westfall, than kudos to you too!
But don't lump a persons skills into one thing, and that is whether or not you can or choose to ride in a halter ......


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## brighteyes08 (Jan 20, 2010)

I don't know why your so against bits like its some kind of horrible thing? No matter if its a simple snaffle or a ported pelham, its all about how you ride and theres absolutely nothing wrong with them.


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## KSL (Oct 4, 2012)

brighteyes08 said:


> I don't know why your so against bits like its some kind of horrible thing? No matter if its a simple snaffle or a ported pelham, its all about how you ride and theres absolutely nothing wrong with them.


Never said I was against them. Ever.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

KSL, sorry to keep bugging you but I'm beginning to wonder why you keep avoiding my questions to you?


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## KSL (Oct 4, 2012)

Sorry, let me go back and read them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KSL (Oct 4, 2012)

PunksTank said:


> KSL, I still want to know why you think a rope halter is so kind or such an advanced piece of tack. I could easily walk downstairs and ride my horse in a rope halter. It would result in a great deal of head tossing and a face-sore horse.
> What makes you think a rope halter is any more gentle or takes any more skill than a bitted bridle? The knots on the pressure points on the face of a horse are equal to if not worse than any mild-moderate bits. And assuming you're not using the very well designed one that BSMS showed, I'm assuming you're using the sort most people use as halters - those are improperly designed for riding in. The amount of shifting and pressure on those halters when reins are attached and pulled on cause rubs and pinching and pressure on soft pressure points. Honestly I don't see a rope halter as a kind tool, it's a tool for training horses in, not an ultimate goal.
> Riding in a flat halter or bridle-less takes a responsive horse and a horse and rider who have solid body communication more than hand communication. This is an OK goal to shoot for, but not a competitive one. It should be every riders goal to communicate clearly with your horse using the mildest tools you and your horse are safe using. Riding without a bit or without a halter as strong as a rope halter can be dangerous, as response time isn't as immediate and there is no 'emergency brakes'. I don't think I'll ever see rope halters to be milder than average bits, so I don't see why you seem to think it's so much better to ride them in a rope halter?


1. Never said it was advanced piece of tack. I use rope halters without pressure point knots, and I try to find a wider/softer rope. I also don't ride with side reins. I just clip reins to the bottom. I also make my own halters that are nice for riding out of a softer cotton rope, plus the measurements are exact to each of my horses and they fit perfectly.. I don't like nylon because of the metal parts. 

2. I don't need emergency breaks with my horses because I work with them 2-4 hours a day every day and they know what I want when I want it. We have solid communication and I don't need a bit to improve that. I don't care if other people use a bit, the point is to have solid communication so you don't use the bit as a crutch. I don't look down on people who use a bit. I've competed in bits a few times, competed in rope halters a few times. Whatever. I just enjoy riding with a rope halter. My horses response time is equal in a bit and rope halter. 

Here's my point: I do not care if you use a bit ALL THE TIME but you SHOULD be able to control your horse without a bit at any given time. If you cannot, you and your horse do not have clear communication. If you rely on a bit to be able to ride, you shouldn't be riding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

KSL said:


> ...I do not care if you use a bit ALL THE TIME but you SHOULD be able to control your horse without a bit at any given time. If you cannot, you and your horse do not have clear communication. If you rely on a bit to be able to ride, you shouldn't be riding...I work with them 2-4 hours a day every day...


And the point of the majority of responders is that bits allow more precise communication because of their design, and that it is physically impossible to be as precise with rein cues using a bitless bridle.

If clear communication is your goal, then bits are superior.

And BTW - few riders have the option of riding their horses 2-4 hours each day. Some have lives outside of riding. And that life often pays the bills for the horse...no $$, no hay! :evil:


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## KSL (Oct 4, 2012)

bsms said:


> And the point of the majority of responders is that bits allow more precise communication because of their design, and that it is physically impossible to be as precise with rein cues using a bitless bridle.
> 
> If clear communication is your goal, then bits are superior.
> 
> And BTW - few riders have the option of riding their horses 2-4 hours each day. Some have lives outside of riding. And that life often pays the bills for the horse...no $$, no hay! :evil:


It is possible. I do it daily. 

My job needs horses, so same difference. Everyone can make time though to work with their horse at least an hour a day. It makes a difference.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Live2Ride15 (Feb 22, 2012)

KSL said:


> If you rely on a bit to be able to ride, you shouldn't be riding.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So are you saying that if a rider is still learning and rely on the bit that they shouldn't ride just because they have not learned yet? That if they have yet to be perfect that they should just stop riding??? I don't mean to sound rude but that is what you just said.


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## KSL (Oct 4, 2012)

Live2Ride15 said:


> So are you saying that if a rider is still learning and rely on the bit that they shouldn't ride just because they have not learned yet? That if they have yet to be perfect that they should just stop riding??? I don't mean to sound rude but that is what you just said.


 If you rely or hang on the bit, stop riding. Go back to ground work and work with your horse on sensitivity and feel. If that horse NEEDS that bit for you to ride him, stop. You've got holes in your training and are probably hurting the horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EvilHorseOfDoom (Jun 17, 2012)

KSL said:


> If you rely or hang on the bit, stop riding. Go back to ground work and work with your horse on sensitivity and feel. If that horse NEEDS that bit for you to ride him, stop. You've got holes in your training and are probably hurting the horse.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry but sometimes it's not the _rider _who needs the bit but the _horse_? I mean, you ever tried riding a racehorse in a halter? A bucker? Bolter? Rearer? So we're just supposed to give up on problem horses because they require a bit to be ridden in? Or horses that prefer bits (like mine, he doesn't like face pressure but enjoys the secure, clear communication afforded by a gentle french-link snaffle)?

Seriously...


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## Live2Ride15 (Feb 22, 2012)

What if this rider has not learned to ride with their seat yet just because they have not been riding long enough, would you not want the rider to keep riding and to learn to ride properly or to stop just because they have not learned yet?


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

KSL said:


> If you rely or hang on the bit, stop riding. Go back to ground work and work with your horse on sensitivity and feel. If that horse NEEDS that bit for you to ride him, stop. You've got holes in your training and are probably hurting the horse.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok, you have a flawed way of seeing this. I ride a reining horse, I hardly ever have to touch his face, he works in a correction bit shock: horror) he responds well to my seat and legs......HOWEVER, when I am in an arena with a group of other riders and I'm loping a circle and some kid is riding into my circle looking down at her horse and not where she is going and I need to stop hard and fast to prevent a wreck, then YES I rely on my voice, seat, bracing my legs and MY BIT! 
So does that make me much less of a rider? My horse is a finished Reiner, purchased from a world class reining trainer.....he stops just with my thinking it practically....but I rely on my bit, it's my back up plan when things go sideways.....does that make me less of a rider.....should I send him back to his trainer and say 'hey, can you ride him in just a halter for a while, because I think you've left holes in his training because I use a bit on him just like you do and it's probably hurting him' ....yikes, I'd be laughed out the door and down the road.....


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## nikelodeon79 (Mar 3, 2008)

KSL said:


> Never said I was against them. Ever.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Really?



KSL said:


> If something is better, healthier, more natural and less painful for the horse, why not use that? I'd go out and actually say that users of a harsh bit to gain control of their horses are selfish and don't care about the horse.





KSL said:


> I disagree that any horse "loves" any bit. You wouldn't "love" a metal bar stuck in your mouth. Tolerate it well, maybe.


Sure sounded that way to me.



KSL said:


> It is possible. I do it daily.
> 
> My job needs horses, so same difference. Everyone can make time though to work with their horse at least an hour a day. It makes a difference.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Gee, you are just going out of your way to insult people, aren't you?

How is a job that needs horses the "same difference" as a job that doesn't?

I can't exactly ride my horse into the office... I can't cram him in the elevator and ride up 15 floors. But... I suppose I should have him trained better so I can do that, right?

Don't assume you know everyone's lives and schedules and don't judge those of us who don't have an hour every single day to work our horses.

Don't assume that all of our horses actually need/benefit from an hour's work every single day. People generally get a couple days off per week... why shouldn't horses?

In fact, isn't it cruel and unnecessary to overwork a horse, just so you can boast that you can ride in a rope halter?


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

I grew up riding my pony in a halter bareback all over Appalachia. I literally could point him at something and he would just do it. I developed great balance ducking through briars and going over hills, but really didn't learn much about anything else. It is only just recently that I feel like I am finally learning how to ride & communicate effectively with my horses. 
I don't think riding bitless makes you necessarily a great horseman, but I do think a horse that will ride bitless is a pretty great horse. (ie.. Roxy)


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

nikelodeon79 said:


> Really?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Haha Nickleodeon, they make great big service elevators now....do ya think he'd fit? :lol:


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

KSL said:


> I disagree that any horse "loves" any bit. You wouldn't "love" a metal bar stuck in your mouth. Tolerate it well, maybe.


I hate this argument. It doesn't prove anything. If you want to pull that card, then quit saddling and riding your horses as well.



KSL said:


> Use a bit if you need one but you SHOULD have your horse responsive enough to ride without it is the main point here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You SHOULD be able to have your horse responsive enough to ride WITH a bit. That is the point a lot of people are making here.



MangoRoX87 said:


> But I have always wondered..who's idea, in the beginning stages of man riding horses, decided, "AH HA! We put rock in horse mouth. Rock make horse whoa whoa."


"Rock make horse whoa whoa." I laughed pretty hard at that.

They actually used rings through the horse's nose as control, and later moved into the horse's mouth. It isn't a crazy concept - If you have control of the horse's head, you have control of its body (usually, lol). When horse's were used for battle and work, you needed to have precise control. So the riders had direct control of the horse's sensitive mouth.

Now, here's my opinion on all this hullabaloo...

A lot of times the horse's behavior has absolutely nothing to do with what's attached to its face. A horse has a lot more leverage against you if you are riding in a halter. If a horse decides to put its head down and really use brute force against you, it has the leverage of its entire head and neck instead of its jaw. So you can train your horse to 'respond to a halter' all you like but in the case of a buck or god forbid a rear (where attempting to pull the horse's head to the side to prevent it from flipping will only result in the horse feeling pressure on its nose ... which means backwards you go) you have to consider that the horse might try to use its strength against you and you want to have the upper hand when it comes to that.

When I use a bit, I ride in my frenchie snaffle and I just bought a rubber mullen mouth snaffle. These bits are extremely mild and to top it off I have soft hands.

If you want to use the argument that we are selfish for using bits if the horses don't "need them", then let me just say YOU are selfish for using a rope halter just because you don't want to train your horse to ride bridleless. Think about it. You think that riding in a halter is some how kinder to the horse because it doesn't go into its mouth. Well.. what's even kinder than that? Not having anything on its face at all causing pressure and making it uncomfortable. If you work with your horse enough it SHOULD be able to respond to only seat, leg, and vocal cues. Isn't that the argument you are making? That the only reason people use bits is because they have not trained their horse to be ridden bitless?

If you want to argue that your horse responds to seat, leg, and vocal cues anyway, you just have a halter "just in case" or something, then what's the difference between that and a bit, honestly? If it's not being used except in an emergency, there will be uncomfortable pressure for the horse regardless of whether it's on the horse's nose or in its mouth. They are two completely different types of pressure but that's all they are: PRESSURE. A bit will not hurt a horse unless you are outright abusive with it, and the same can be said about your miracle rope halter. There are lots of sensitive tissues on the horse's face that can easily be damaged if someone rides them in a halter with a heavy hand - especially a thin rope halter with knots.

I think you've been watching too many Youtube horse trainers that try to drill into your head rope halters are kind and bits are not. They like to post videos of people using bits horridly wrong and pass it off as a general thing. Judging by your signature "It's NEVER the horse's fault" I have a feeling I know which trainer that is. If you want to ride in a rope halter and ignore the fact that not having something in its mouth does NOT equal a pain-free and stress-free horse, go ahead. But don't come here trying to say that people who use bits properly are still doing wrong by their horse.

I make my own rope tack and made this makeshift bosal (same exact pressure as a rope halter, just attached to a bridle) for my horse:










I also ride him in a halter:










Oh, I have also had this horse for less than two weeks and I did not have to do any "special" training with him to get him riding bitless. If your horse leads fine and respectfully, then it will ride in a halter most likely. Riding in a bit is a whole different type of pressure that has to be trained. Halter pressure is something the horse should have known most of its life.

I understand that rope halters slide and cause inconsistent pressure which does not allow me to train certain things properly. They are very confusing if you want to accomplish certain things. I also use a gentle snaffle on him when we're working on something new.

Bits have their places. The people that talk them down are people who were never properly trained to use them or people that have low aspirations of things to accomplish with their horse.

So, to your first question, "Why bother using a bit": Precision and communication.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Equilove......thanks, you took the words out of my mouth....I'm too lazy to write all that!


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

KSL said:


> It is possible. I do it daily.
> 
> My job needs horses, so same difference. Everyone can make time though to work with their horse at least an hour a day. It makes a difference.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, maybe if everyone rode for 2-4 hours a day every day, they'd all be perfect too. :evil:

But no, you are wrong. I've used a variety of bitless bridles, and none of them allow the precision and subtlety of cues that a bit does. Particularly a design like you describe. So if accurate and gentle communication is your goal, ditch your bitless bridle and get a bit for your horse.

And you might ditch the attitude as well. Most of the riders I know work to pay for their horses. Most horses are owned by recreational riders. And no, most riders do not have at least an hour a day to ride horses.


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

bsms said:


> Most of the riders I know work to pay for their horses. Most horses are owned by recreational riders. And no, most riders do not have at least an hour a day to ride horses.


Right. I live 45 minutes away from my horses and use a quarter tank roundtrip. I drive a truck. It is not cheap. I can not afford to fill up my truck 2 times a week. It's just a measly 26 gallon tank but you get what I'm saying. -.-

Not everyone is blessed with horses in their backyard. If my horses were on my property, or even 15 minutes away, you bet your rootin tootin hiney I'd be out there every day.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

The sun was about to rise when my wife, a nurse, left for work today. It is now 9:30 PM, and she hasn't made it home yet. Should nurses be prevented from riding because they don't have enough daylight to ride their horse daily?

When in the military, a 12 hour day, at least 5 days a week was the norm for me. I was deployed overseas on average 6 months a year. Guess folks in the military should be banned from owning horses too...


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

KSL said:


> [Egg Butt snaffle]: Explain this bit to me, what it does for the horse and some uses for it (western, trails, English ect.) I have one in my barn and have never touched it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/egg-butt-snaffle-140078/

???????????????????????????????????????????????


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

i long for the day that the bitted/bitless debate is resolved using sound mechanical and biological facts, rather than using individual examples of horses and personal experience of riders.

and on that note:


bsms said:


> and that it is physically impossible to be as precise with rein cues using a bitless bridle.


yes the pressure will be in different places, but X pressure in X direction can always be clearly distinguished from Y pressure in Y direction, *regardless* of bitted or bitless. this is a simple mechanical fact because there is nothing about bits through the mouth or nosebands around the nose that impedes the transmission of a changing or constant directional pressure.

so explain to me how there is any difference in precision, without telling me about a horse.


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## KSL (Oct 4, 2012)

bsms said:


> http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/egg-butt-snaffle-140078/
> 
> ???????????????????????????????????????????????


 Problem?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

_Here's my point: I do not care if you use a bit ALL THE TIME but you SHOULD be able to control your horse without a bit at any given time. If you cannot, you and your horse do not have clear communication. If you rely on a bit to be able to ride, you shouldn't be riding._
_Posted via Mobile Device[/QUOTE]_

I dont think I have ever heard such a load of pompous crap
Who on earth do you think you are dictating like this?
Its obvious that you've never ridden a horse thats super fit and got some real 'go' in it over a complicated cross country course or you wouldn't be saying stuff like it. 
There were loads of kids in my area - including me - who rode our ponies bareback in halters and stood up on their backs going along the road too. Its a rite of passage sort of thing. A lot of those ponies came from gypsy horse dealers - they weren't well trained, we weren't great riders and we all spent our fair share of time in hospital waiting rooms. Being able to ride in a rope halter proves absolutely nothing to me about how good someone is. Mostly we were just showing off. Kids do that a lot.
Before you do any more preaching about what negligent owners we are because you feel we have such gaps in our horses training you might try managing your property better since according to what of your other threads you have a horse there that is constantly pooing out worms. Now that is a serious probem which means all of your other horses are going to have the same worm burden - I'm amazed they even have the energy to go forwards. Its real easy to stop a horse in a rope halter if you are having to bang the sides out of it to make it go - basically you just stop kicking


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## HighstepperLove (Aug 6, 2012)

Did not read all of the replies, but here is my two cents for what it's worth. My TWH mare is particular about bits LOL. I have her an Indian Hackamore AND a very low port TWH bit. In the Indian Hackamore, I have the control to turn her left and right, to stop her, and that's about it. It's fine for riding around in the fields and playing. I like it. BUT, on a serious trail ride, I prefer a bit and here is why: TWHs have an awesome NATURAL gait. It's part of why a lot of trail riders love them.. but with many walkers, they do kind of depend on their rider to "hold them" in their gait.. and that requires contact with their mouth and encouragement with horses like mine. She will not gait in her hackamore. She gaits beautifully and just flies in her bit. It really depends on what I'm doing with her and what I am asking of her what works best. 

I don't like the bit vs no bit debates. It's like the Stay home mom vs. the working mom crap. Do what works for each situation... don't worry about what other people are doing or why. It's just not that important nor is it anyone's business. You can possibly know every person, every horse, every family, every situation. I've been riding for 25 years and training/breaking horses since I was 12... every single horse is different and every rider is different.


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## HighstepperLove (Aug 6, 2012)

KSL said:


> It is possible. I do it daily.
> 
> My job needs horses, so same difference. Everyone can make time though to work with their horse at least an hour a day. It makes a difference.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actually, this is untrue. I have 3 children of my own and both my hunny and I are full time military. Tuesday-Friday, I get them up every morning at 0530, I'm at work by 0700. I leave work at 1730 and have to get the kids by 1800. At 1800 it's starting to get dark and i have to feed the kids and get them to their activities (baseball, ballet, 4-H, etc). Please, tell me where I have time for an hour of riding a day... b/c I'm doing my best and my horses are WELL cared for.. but I physically CANNOT ride an hour a day. My hunny works an hour away with the same work hours... so he gets home an hour after I do.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

KSL works from _home_ y'all, on her parents' property. Her horses are in her parents' barn so she doesn't have to pay board, which the majority of horse owners do. 

She either has a home based business or one that involves riding horses on a daily basis, depending on what thread you're reading. :?

So whichever one is true, she has absolutely NO CLUE how the real world works, and that people actually have jobs they have to go to in order to afford their homes and horses.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

KSL said:


> Problem?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep.

You claim to be a pro working with horses, and to be experienced with bits & training horses...but you don't know what an eggbutt snaffle is used for? You are ready to tell people that all horses should be trained to ride bitless, as though riding a horse bitless requires some special level of training, but you don't know anything about using an eggbutt snaffle?

I conclude you don't know squat about bits & thus aren't qualified to start an argument about the inferiority of horses using bits. How can you say "Why even use a bit?" if you don't know about one of the most basic & commonly used bits?


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## KSL (Oct 4, 2012)

Speed Racer said:


> KSL works from _home_ y'all, on her parents' property. Her horses are in her parents' barn so she doesn't have to pay board, which the majority of horse owners do.
> 
> She either has a home based business or one that involves riding horses on a daily basis, depending on what thread you're reading. :?
> 
> So whichever one is true, she has absolutely NO CLUE how the real world works, and that people actually have jobs they have to go to in order to afford their homes and horses.


Both actually. My business is home based and in my free time I I ranch work for my sick dad. Which involves horses.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HighstepperLove (Aug 6, 2012)

KSL said:


> Both actually. My business is home based and in my free time I I ranch work for my sick dad. Which involves horses.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's great for you. Not all of us are able to do that.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I think that KLS is a kid that is in over her head in this conversation. 

Some of us have been riding before your mother was born, child. We do know what we are doing. Our horses are healthy, happy, and well mannered. 

*To all bitless people:* Show is some video footage. I want to see walk, trot, slow lope, hand gallop, turns, circles, roll backs, side passes, backing, spinning, and roping. I would also like to see your trophies for first place trophies at reining competitions. Then I would like to see you take an extremely hot Arab and ride her at a slow canter toward her barn. Her head needs to be low. We're looking for peanut rolling. All in a halter. A bit would be cruel, right? Oh, don't forget to slow lope a four year old OTTB out in an open field, do a rollback toward the barn, gallop for five strides, then slow to a lope again.............


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## KSL (Oct 4, 2012)

HighstepperLove said:


> That's great for you. Not all of us are able to do that.


Never said that was a bad thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

christopher said:


> i long for the day that the bitted/bitless debate is resolved using sound mechanical and biological facts, rather than using individual examples of horses and personal experience of riders.
> 
> and on that note:
> 
> ...


Well, a loop of rope hanging around the nose does NOT mechanically give the direct, focused cue that a bar across the jaw does. Imagine holding a bit in your fist. You will feel slight pressure on the bit far better than you will if someone puts a rope around your fist.

It works that way with horses. Yes, a rope bitless bridle WILL allow you to put their face around even when they are excited. However, it will NOT allow you to use a lagging rein. By that I mean take an excited horse and as each shoulder moves forward, lag with the rein on that side. Don't pull BACK, just move the rein with your little finger a hair behind the horse's shoulder moving.

Horses understand that as 'don't move that front leg so far forward in your stride'. That is what I was told, and it worked like that with my mare who had NOT been given any training on it. We worked with it at a walk and at a trot. Now, when she gets all wound up about cantering and either wants to move into a canter while at a trot, or wants to string herself out on the front end while at a canter, I can use a lagging rein to 'collect' her. Not to put her into a collected gait, but to keep her moving with her rear while her front end takes slightly shorter front steps, balancing her and relaxing her.

This proved invaluable when I needed to teach her to canter with a rider. She was clueless, and our first few attempts were dangerous. She had her nose inches above the ground and the vast majority of her weight on her front legs. She was flailing, and it felt like we were going to flip **** over tincups.

You cannot do that with a rope circle around the nose.

You also cannot turn the rein like you are starting a car with a key, and have the horse respond by keeping its shoulder up. They just do not feel a rope sliding on their nose with the precision that they feel a bar across their jaw. A rope halter, and I rode with them exclusively my first 3 years of riding, just is NOT mechanically as precise.

Take a look at this picture. Notice where on the horse the rope halter is working, vs a bit in the mouth:



















The same is true of pulling their head to a more vertical position. Pull both reins back with a rope halter, and it will first move up on their face. That is not nearly as precise as a bar located in their mouth near the tip of their nose. I am NOT talking about forcing a horse into a frame. I'm talking about getting a very excited or frightened horse to yield.

A rope halter, even if it is designed as a bridle, is NOT as precise and does NOT give the leverage that a bit in the mouth does.


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## HighstepperLove (Aug 6, 2012)

KSL said:


> Never said that was a bad thing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Didn't say you did.. but you did make the assumption that everyone could make an hour a day for working with their horses. This is not a true assumption.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

I read through most of this thread, skipped the last couple of pages.

I feel there is an ego thing going on here with the OP. So, to the OP, I think that's great you can ride your horses with a halter, or bitless...that's great. But who else on here can't do that? Pretty much everyone else can, so I don't understand your thinking that if someone CAN'T do it, they aren't a rider.

So, I will one up you....how about bridleless? I can ride with a bit, with a halter, and bridleless on my horse...and he will respond the same way BECAUSE I use seat and leg FIRST, no matter what is on his head or NOT on his head. Here are some pics at the jog (and yes, I can walk, jog, lope, back, spin, and do a pattern on him bridleless inside OR outside.)




























If you know anything about riding....you know that there are 3 basic aids....hand, seat, and leg. To get ultimate refinement in how your horse uses it's body, a bit is needed due to the hand communication. To go bridleless, bitless, or in a halter and have your horse perform correctly....well, that is the END of the training because everything else to get to that point has been done in a bit.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I don't want to bash or bully an individual. I do disagree with a few ideas postulated. I am a lucky person who is a full time student and keeps her horse at her parents property. That is about an hour away from where I go to school. This would mean that on a given day after 8 hours of campus work I would have to drive an hour home, ride/work with the horse for an hour and then drive an hour back to school. Where I would then complete the assigned readings. That does not happen. 

I also disagree with the idea that anyone who uses a bit or not a rope halter is a bad rider. I don't show and I don't own a rope halter. I work my horses in either a D ring snaffle or a french link. I do this because I like the precision of the bit. I use more ounces than pounds of pressure to get a desired response. I also like having brakes. I am not saying that a bit is the only brakes. I am saying that if I ride down the trail and a deer jumps out and scares my horse. The horse takes off like a bat out of heck. I like that I can use that bit to help me stop them. They are going to pay more attention to the most important thing in that situation (me and MY safety). The rope halter is a fine enough tool; however, I choose not to use it. I don't think that makes my horses less trained or me less skilled then someone who rides only in a rope halter. 

Third reason to think horses should be exposed to it. Most horses in this day and age will be sold. Which means that they have a pretty good chance of having John Q public go out and slap a bit in there mouth and toss a saddle on. We can only hope they don't throw some god awful shank bit curbed monstrosity in the horses mouth without first knowing how to use it. The only thing you can do is expose the horse to bits (even a humble snaffle) so its not a total mess when a future owner puts a bit in the horses mouth and rides off into the sunset.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Well this thread went well didn't it:lol:


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

jaydee said:


> Well this thread went well didn't it:lol:


Depends on whether or not you're the OP, I guess. :twisted:

But then, _all _her threads seem to go trainwreck-y, mostly because of her Ever Changing Story.


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## MangoRoX87 (Oct 19, 2009)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KSL (Oct 4, 2012)

It's easy to be a bully when hiding behind a computer. Thanks everyone for all the help. All I was doing is asking a simple question.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

KSL said:


> It's easy to be a bully when hiding behind a computer. Thanks everyone for all the help. All I was doing is asking a simple question.


No you werent asking a simple question, you started this a couple of days ago in another thread, in which you said something along the lines that 'if you cant ride your horse in a halter that your not a real horseman' and again, dont make me copy paste all your remarks from that thread and time line them on here. Anyone can view your posts.
If you insult people, this is what happens.
Ive had plenty of back and forths with people on this forum, but nine times out of ten i would have either conceded to agree to disagree or apologized for offending someone. Im not to prideful and egotistical to do that.....its called maturity.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

KSL said:


> It's easy to be a bully when hiding behind a computer. Thanks everyone for all the help. All I was doing is asking a simple question.


You asked why we use bits. Pretty much everybody said that they use them for the refined communication with their horse. It was my impression that you didn't like that answer. 

I have ridden bit-less. If my bridle were to break out on a trail, I wouldn't be afraid to snap my reins on to my halter. But that is not the way I am going to ride on a daily basis.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

KSL said:


> It's easy to be a bully when hiding behind a computer.


It's also apparently easy to be an arrogant, entitled git. Pot, meet kettle.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Hey Speed, want to come pet my unicorn??? You can ride him too, but just not with a bit


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> Hey Speed, want to come pet my unicorn??? You can ride him too, but just not with a bit


Nothing doing, anabel! I'm too crappy a rider to ride bitless, especially a unicorn! I ride mine in a double twisted wire snaffle, with extra jaw cracking action. Can't control him otherwise! :rofl:


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Speed Racer said:


> Nothing doing, anabel! I'm too crappy a rider to ride bitless, especially a unicorn! I ride mine in a double twisted wire snaffle, with extra jaw cracking action. Can't control him otherwise! :rofl:



I prefer to ride in something resembling this:









I find it helps me to reef my helpless horse's head around and cause him to bleed from the lips and gums. Which is the ultimate purpose of dressage, who are we kidding?? Who doesn't like that nice, bloody mouthed look?


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

At least it has a rope on the nose....


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> Who doesn't like that nice, bloody mouthed look?


Well, duh! How _else_ is the horse's mouth going to stay nice and moist?


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

In all seriousness, this thread has made me question on thing about my horse. I recently switched him into the french link. He has been rather eager for the bit since the change. I was not coordinated one day and had taken his halter off before being fully ready go bridle him (sometimes I am bad like that). He reached over and took the bit into his mouth to play with. It was like my horse said "here let me take this and help you because you clearly need it.". Is this not normal? If he is supposed to hate a cold piece of metal in his mouth why did he reach over and take it?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

This thread has run it's rather warped lifespan, I think it's time to kiss it goodbye.


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