# What do you guys think of the "Tap Method"?



## Aizea (Oct 26, 2008)

If you don't know what it is, look up Endospink on youtube. He has plenty of videos of him doing the Tap, a training method he has come up with.


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## SonnyWimps (Feb 22, 2008)

forcing a horse to the ground is not my idea of training nor something I'd ever do or want to do.
So other people don't have to look on youtube...here is a link for one 




This one actually shows from the other side on what the person does...and it IS just forcing the horse down


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

SonnyWimps said:


> forcing a horse to the ground is not my idea of training nor something I'd ever do or want to do.
> So other people don't have to look on youtube...here is a link for one
> This one actually shows from the other side on what the person does...and it IS just forcing the horse down


 
Hmmmm SW since the OP mentioned specifically the tap method as performed by endospink ( Paul Williamson) please do not show what other people are doing. Especially using the term _hybrid_ in conjunction with those videos as this term is used exclusively by him. They are entirely different. :roll:

Here is the website if anyone is interested.


Contact Us


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## SonnyWimps (Feb 22, 2008)

Well she did say just search for that on youtube..and I did, and that's what it came up with.

EDIT: They used the word Hybrid, Sypder because they were using HIS technique....not because it's an "upgrade" to his


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Laying a horse down is an extremely old method of teaching submission. There has always been a lot of controversy about it and was "successfully" used in the movie "The Horse Whisperer".

Like any training method it should be done by someone who knows the method and how to apply it correctly. It's not for every horse but it has it's place. I've never used it but I have seen it done with amazing results.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

When Endospink uses the technique, usually it's on horses that would otherwise be heading to a dog food can pronto, so his extreme method is necessary. 
For others that have more time to bring a horse around, I don't think the tap method is the way to go.
He also warns against using it on your own.
I think he is a highly trained professional that HAS turned many horses around, and kudos to him - they would be re-named Purina if he hadn't done something.


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## AllyKatSki1 (Apr 2, 2008)

I think its a realy cruddy way to get a horse to Submet (SP), there practicly (SP) dragging them the ground... and for what purpose??


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Again, Endo uses this method to turn around horses that would otherwise be sent to slaughter. In my mind it's better being hauled to the ground a couple times than being sent to a can. He's done wonders with the horses. Go search him on Youtube.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Alli, They are not draged to the ground and there is a purpose. Please re-read the posts and follow the TAP webside: Home

This is a method that has been successfully used as last resort for well over 100 years.


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## Dumas'_Grrrl (Apr 2, 2008)

The "TAP" is a tool and should be respected as any tool should be. Done correctly it is not damaging IMO.


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

Dumas'_Grrrl said:


> The "TAP" is a tool and should be respected as any tool should be. Done correctly it is not damaging IMO.


I agree Amy. And this is something that if you're thinking about doing, GET A PROFESSIONAL! I would not want to even try attempting this by myself.
I applaud what Endospink has done for those horses. He's giving them a chance and helping them.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

way off topic but... Endospink is the guys name? It just cracks me up!!! LOL....


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## Painted Ride (Jun 30, 2008)

^ hehehehe


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

farmpony84 said:


> way off topic but... Endospink is the guys name? It just cracks me up!!! LOL....


No he is a transplanted Aussie ( to Japan) called Paul Williams.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I don't agree with his methods at all but that may just be me. If they work for him then power to him but my dad has been training horses for 40 years and many of them were horses with problems or were just downright dangerous and he never made a horse lay down to gain submission. There are some people who believe in this method completely and that is fine, but I don't agree with it. If you teach a horse to lay down of his own free will, that is cool but I just don't agree with his methods. I am going to have a Percheron colt next spring and plan on riding him when he is older so I am going to try to teach him to lay down on command so that I will be able to get on him. There are better methods than this to teach a horse respect.


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

I don't get the point of it.
The horse is just put down by applying so much pain it get's enough endorphins to be completely drugged. Like a deer hit by a car, but surviving the crash. It just lies there for a while.
Question is if the horse even can notice or learn anything when it's that drugged down by endorphins like that. How much of the pain remains when the endorphins wear off?
I don't like it at all, maybe, perhaps as a last try on a very problematic horse. But I still think most problems will be solved with patience and corrections in the right time.


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## Curly_Horse_CMT (Jun 8, 2008)

*Horse Whisperer?*

This kinda reminds me of the novel, The Horse Whisperer and the movie that they made off of it...Robert Redford did smiliar things to the horse to get it to "lie down", using that training method. :-|:? hmmmm I wonder if it is the same thing/similar idea...


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Curly_Horse_CMT said:


> This kinda reminds me of the novel, The Horse Whisperer and the movie that they made off of it...Robert Redford did smiliar things to the horse to get it to "lie down", using that training method. :-|:? hmmmm I wonder if it is the same thing/similar idea...


I have seen the Horse Whisperer and the "tap" method. The Horse whisperer method used force through ropes. I believe he tied a leg up. This is old style western to get wild mustangs subdued....and there is considerable pain and fear involved. 

The tap method does not use ropes. I see no pain involved at all, nor do I see any horse all doped up on endorphines. I have seen MANY videos including one taped live demonstration in the trainers challenge held just a few months ago here in North American and believe me, no one was in pain or doped. So I would like to remind people that in Japan the horse *MUST* be ready to raced ASAP or it is put in a can....period. Taking your time is not an option. Someone has found a method to reduce the time and in a roundabout way save the horse.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I think it's kinda pointless, but that's just me.  If done correctly, I think it's OK- but if not & you're forcing the horse down I don't agree with it.


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## phaebarrett (Oct 31, 2008)

I have followed Paul's methods very carefully and he has personally advised me on problems with my OTTB. He has never 'forced' a horse down to the ground (without tying up a leg, it is pretty hard for a 5 foot 'nothing' guy to 'throw' a 600kg horse on the ground - you try it!) Nor is the horse drugged. The endorphins RELAX the horse, it is NEVER in pain and there are no bad effects during or after. It is just controversial because people don't understand what they are seeing. 
His methods have completely saved my own horse, quickly and effectively... plus I am much, much safer. All I did was 'half tap' my horse twice to achieve a completely new horse who had a plethora of problems.
Having had the priviledge of his personal advice (he even called me from Japan once), I have absolute respect for ALL his methods, which is not only The Tap, but he is truely talented in all areas of training and his Love and Dedication to horses is transparent. He often gets people's back's up because his sense of humour makes 'quips' at natural horsemanship. He lives in a different world with the pressure to produce colts for racing on the track. 
But without ranting on, the question is about "The TAP", and I know for a fact it can be a very very effective method.


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

Drugs relax the horse too. :angel:

Endorphins are let out when the horse feel enough pain, to cover the pain. (Same as when I shattered the wrist; it took me half an hour to feel it thanks to endorphins.. but it hurt like hell afterwards)
And effective isn't always the same as good.


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