# How to stop a dark bay mare from bleaching?



## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

_Winter and summer coats tend to look slightly different to begin with. _

_If you dont want her to bleach out though, you can get her a fly sheet. To help prevent her neck from also bleaching out, get one that has a neck cover on it._


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Thanks. I was searching Schneiders, and there were separate categories for "stable sheets" and "turnout sheets". Is there a difference?


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

_For the summer, a fly sheet would be best, as it is still breathable. _

_I have no idea. LOL. Maybe the fabric?_


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

What do you think about this one? Wish it came in something other than white, that's sure to be brown in a few days :lol:

Soft Interlock Mesh Bellyband Combo Fly Sheet in Other Fly Sheets at Schneider Saddlery


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

Yup, that's what you want! You won't find too many fly sheets in darker colours, as they are used during the summer. Lighter colours help reflect the sun, where a dark colour would absorb it. 

I think Baker has a light brown plaid one....but I don't know the price on them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## candandy49 (Jan 16, 2011)

What a lot of horse owners do is stall the horse during the day and turn them out at night. It also helps to keep the horse from being bothered by flies in the Summer.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

^We would do that, except there's too many coyotes around here at night that would gladly take down a few little mini foals. Plus, Molly weaves if left in for more than a few hours, so I've been leaving her out during the day and most of the night now.

The Baker's 90-100 and doesn't come with a hood. When should I start turning her out with the sheet once I get it?


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## PaintingMissy (Nov 9, 2009)

I know there is a supplement called Black as Knight on the market. I have heard good things about it but have not personally used it. Blanketing is probably the best option of you though.


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

A stable sheet doesn't have the back leg straps. You need the leg straps. If she rolls she could get out of the blancet or get herself cought up in it.


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## MagicAmigo92 (Jun 16, 2010)

I have the same problem with my horse. He is a Seal Black therefore he fades to dark bay in summer. The best thing I have found to work is to get a darkening supplement and keeping him sheltered during the day and letting him out at night. The only downfall is that the grass at night gets dew therefore gets more sugar which may infact cause a weight problem. But if there is no concern with that then you should be fine =)


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## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

my guy is kinda' the same way. i use Black as Knight as well as a fly sheet. If i don't keep him covered then he looks pretty homeless when we go to the shows and he's all bleached out!


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## MagicAmigo92 (Jun 16, 2010)

Lol I know how that is. I also used a wash for black horses and it worked great for a temporary thing


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

myhorsesonador said:


> A stable sheet doesn't have the back leg straps. You need the leg straps. If she rolls she could get out of the blancet or get herself cought up in it.


Thanks Sonador, I'll make sure to get that.

The other problem with leaving them out at night, besides Molly's weaving, is coyotes. Our main pasture backs right up to a ton of woods where they live, and we've had coyotes come right up in the backyard. The mini foals would be ready-made appetizers :shock:


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

equiniphile said:


> Thanks Sonador, I'll make sure to get that.
> 
> The other problem with leaving them out at night, besides Molly's weaving, is coyotes. Our main pasture backs right up to a ton of woods where they live, and we've had coyotes come right up in the backyard. The mini foals would be ready-made appetizers :shock:


You might want to get some hot wire and string it up on the out side of your pasture near the woods. Also have you thought about a live stock gardian dog???


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

We have electric fencing in addition to the wood fencing, and the coyotes never bother anyone during the day. At night, though, we hear them all the time. Last week my mom and I were feeding and heard a bunch of coyotes taking down a dog pretty close to where we were. I'm guessing it was a neighbor's, but it was scary how close. As for the guardian dog, we do have dogs, but they all stay inside at night and would be helpless against a pack of coyotes. We haven't had a problem in 21 years, but I don't really want to risk it.


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## ScharmLily (Nov 23, 2009)

Just as a side note:

A turnout blanket will have a higher denier fabric and will also be waterproof for variable weather conditions. A stable blanket will not be waterproof. Most stable blankets do have leg straps; the ones that don't are usually labeled as an underblanket for layering, and may have slots for the leg straps of the top blanket to be passed through.


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## justjump (Jan 18, 2011)

Personally, I like her better in the summer! Haha
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Woodland Eventer (Jan 26, 2011)

I recommend feeding a tablespoon or so of paprika with her feed(it's actually a main ingedient in most darkening supplements, and much cheper). I have a black event pony and it kept her black all summer, full turnout. I try to start feeding before she sheds, so the coat gets whatever it gets before she sheds. It works amazingly.

Here's her mid-summer:
http://i351.photobucket.com/albums/q463/eventinglunatic22/Satin/Satin.jpg
http://i351.photobucket.com/albums/q463/eventinglunatic22/Satin/Satin4.jpg


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## MagicAmigo92 (Jun 16, 2010)

Woodland Eventer said:


> I recommend feeding a tablespoon or so of paprika with her feed(it's actually a main ingedient in most darkening supplements, and much cheper). I have a black event pony and it kept her black all summer, full turnout. I try to start feeding before she sheds, so the coat gets whatever it gets before she sheds. It works amazingly.


:shock: omg I would have never thought paprika helps them stay black. Do you think it would help a Seal Brown color horse? If I keep him stalled he is perfectly black, but if I don't, he turns into a bay :-|.


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## Woodland Eventer (Jan 26, 2011)

MagicAmigo92 said:


> :shock: omg I would have never thought paprika helps them stay black. Do you think it would help a Seal Brown color horse? If I keep him stalled he is perfectly black, but if I don't, he turns into a bay :-|.


I would assume it would help any dark colored horse. I've seen it work on many horses.

The only reason I had even ever looked into the paprika is because I don't like to cover them from the sun due to its ability to help the body produce vitamins.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

How do you feed the Paprika? We grain once a day, could I just feed it once a day?


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## MagicAmigo92 (Jun 16, 2010)

Woodland Eventer said:


> I would assume it would help any dark colored horse. I've seen it work on many horses.
> 
> The only reason I had even ever looked into the paprika is because I don't like to cover them from the sun due to its ability to help the body produce vitamins.


Ohhh... If you feed twice do you put it in twice or only once a day?


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## Woodland Eventer (Jan 26, 2011)

Most people feed it twice daily, it has a stronger effect that way. But I only feed once daily, and it always seemed to work fine fed once daily.


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## MagicAmigo92 (Jun 16, 2010)

Woodland Eventer said:


> Most people feed it twice daily, it has a stronger effect that way. But I only feed once daily, and it always seemed to work fine fed once daily.



Thanks bunches =) I can't wait to try it!


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

We only grain at night, in the morning can I just feed her a handful of grain with the tablespoon of paprika or will it be too strong alone?


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

DONT GIVE PEPRIKA IF YOU PLAN TO SHOW!!!! It gives a false negative


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

myhorsesonador said:


> DONT GIVE PEPRIKA IF YOU PLAN TO SHOW!!!! It gives a false negative


 You're kidding! I might have to stay away from that one then as showing "drugged" horses at our fair results in disqualification all fair week, and I believe ion future years as well.

Anyone heard anything about Black as Knight?


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

equiniphile said:


> You're kidding! I might have to stay away from that one then as showing "drugged" horses at our fair results in disqualification all fair week, and I believe ion future years as well.
> 
> Anyone heard anything about Black as Knight?


yup it also hase peprika in it.

try Black oil sunflower seeds. there safe and efective. 

also flax is good but it can be hard to digest so dont give to much


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Where do I get the sunflower seeds? How much/often do I feed?


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

equiniphile said:


> Where do I get the sunflower seeds? How much/often do I feed?


its the kind you feed birds.

one hand full once or 2xs a day is fine. Sonador likes them beter than her grain or cookies!


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Hmm, I might still try the paprika. We don't go to high-level shows, and I've never seen them test horses locally unless they think there's reason to.


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## Woodland Eventer (Jan 26, 2011)

About the false negative thing, I don't ever worry about it. As long as you're not showing a horse who demonstrates signs of being under the influence of drugs, it's not a big deal. My mare, who is extremely dead headed, has never been tested. If your horse does get tested, and you get a false negative, you could probably explain the paprika without too much drama. I personally wouldn't worry about it. My vet even says that he wouldn't worry and that any false negative he gets is usually from a paprika regimen or a strong darkening supplement.

And as for the Black Oil sunflower seeds, I've never heard of them having a darkening effect. We used them strictly to maintain weight on an old horse(it did make her shine though). They are very fattening, and can be dangerous if not fed carefully...


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

I've heard the paprika thing before...does anyone know if there are any negatives to feeding it, or is it completely harmless (besides the false positive thing)? 

*And does it work on mane and tail as well, or just coat?* My buckskin's black mane and tail are always so sun bleached with ugly orange streaks by mid-summer, I actually had to dye it black last year it looked so bad!


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

equiniphile said:


> We have electric fencing in addition to the wood fencing, and the coyotes never bother anyone during the day. At night, though, we hear them all the time. Last week my mom and I were feeding and *heard a bunch of coyotes taking down a dog* pretty close to where we were. I'm guessing it was a neighbor's, but it was scary how close. As for the guardian dog, we do have dogs, but they all stay inside at night and would be helpless against a pack of coyotes. We haven't had a problem in 21 years, but I don't really want to risk it.


They were taking down a dog??? :shock: omg that's freaky, esp. since I don't live far from you!!! YIPES! Glad my doggies are indoor pups! Our little Lhasa Apso wouldn't stand a chance! (also why our back yard is fenced in with aluminum fencing with the posts close together (so our skinny Whippet can't get out haha!) :wink:


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> They were taking down a dog??? :shock: omg that's freaky, esp. since I don't live far from you!!! YIPES! Glad my doggies are indoor pups! Our little Lhasa Apso wouldn't stand a chance! (also why our back yard is fenced in with aluminum fencing with the posts close together (so our skinny Whippet can't get out haha!) :wink:


 Yep, a dog. We turned the radio on full blast and talked loud, hoping to scare the pack a way, but no luck. I hear 'em howling all the time when I'm in the barn at night.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

creeeeeepy!!!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Woodland Eventer (Jan 26, 2011)

Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> I've heard the paprika thing before...does anyone know if there are any negatives to feeding it, or is it completely harmless (besides the false positive thing)?
> 
> *And does it work on mane and tail as well, or just coat?* My buckskin's black mane and tail are always so sun bleached with ugly orange streaks by mid-summer, I actually had to dye it black last year it looked so bad!


I've never experienced any negatives to feeding paprika. As for mane and tail, it works to an extent. I usually end up using a bit of well blended in Just For Men in black. I'd be really careful to keep it off the body while rinsing on a buckskin though... And make sure you rinse VERY well, and dry with a not too dark towel to make sure you got it all.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

yeah I used Feria last year and a big plastic drop cloth over her butt lol...but couldn't figure out how to do her mane without getting it on her neck so stuck with the tail only 
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## Woodland Eventer (Jan 26, 2011)

I'd try pinning plastic wrap to the underside of her mane, then wrapping it up while you wait to rinse. I'd try to use plastic wrap or something to guide the water off of the horse's body.

When I did my mare's forelock, I actually ended up pinning it back with the rest of her mane and wrapping it up afterward with a paper towel to get the extra off and to keep the color off her star.

The Just For Men really lasts. I've used it for a few years now, and it has never even faded.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

cool  yeah it was a giant pain but her tail sure looked nice afterwards!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

I am going to get some Just For Men for Sarge's mane! It bleaches out and looks like the pits.


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## Midnight Angel (Oct 31, 2010)

I have a black thorougbred mare and a black Tennesse Walker - and I fight the same battle ! I use Black as Knight - I stall them during the day - and I still use a sheet when they are out at night in the summer because the sunrises is early here in Florida - I also use a black shampoo - but even with all of that they still sometimes fade out on some parts of their body.

I suppose you could say Welcome to the dark side - ha ha - there is no real solution - you just need to keep trying !


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## Eliz (Jun 16, 2010)

I use ground flax seed... I get it at the local grocery store. It's like a powder, so they can digest it.

It improves hooves as well. It makes them SO shiney, they look wet 

I would be careful about paprika... although your horse doesn't look drugged, a lot of the tests are completely random.
You CAN buy a show version of Black as Knight, without the pap. But still, there are cheaper alternatives.


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## Katze (Feb 21, 2011)

omg I can't believe you guys use pharmacy brand hair color on your horses...:shock:....do you realize how bad it is for them?? I'm a salon owner and color technician (hair color specialist) the stuff they sell in the pharmacy is EXTREMELY bad. The amonia content alone is 3-5x stronger then salon brand colors. Please don't color your horses just for esthetic reasons, you never know what effects it can have on them long term.:-(


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

^ my horse is still *gasp* living and breathing! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

I tried straight spanish paprika with no effect. Black as Knight, however, worked very well. The trick is to start feeding it before the sun starts to get strong. I'm going to start feeding it next week since my horse just started to shed. I'm busy at work now, (sort of, ha ha) but will try to post pics with and without when I get a chance.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Black as Knight comparison pics. Top one is without. Bottom one is with. Without pic taken in May 2010. With pic taken July 2009.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

^Wow, those results are great!


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

Ha I love this thread! It is the total opposite of what I want XD 

I want my mare to totally get lighter in summer =D She is a bay.


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## DubyaS6 (Aug 30, 2010)

So...after 5 pages I have gathered that everything that makes them darker contains paprika which some people think is not good for the horse and will fail tests, correct?

So there really is nothing else that will keep them darkened (other than fly sheet and keep them inside during the day)?


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## Katze (Feb 21, 2011)

Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> ^ my horse is still *gasp* living and breathing!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do w/e you want it's your horse, i'm just passing on some proffessional advice, it's up to you to take it or not, I dont really care lol. I've been studying/practicing my trade for many years and know a wee bit about what's in hair dyes, how they work why they work etc.., just saying, don't forget it's a chemical, i've seen some pretty bad allergic reactions, and it was on a human  Oh and last I heard they were using lead in "Just for men", they took it off the shelves for awhile and replaced the lead with something else. oh yeah lead is bad...isn't it?...:wink:


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## Woodland Eventer (Jan 26, 2011)

Well, if they've replaced the lead you believe was in it(weird, 'cause my dad uses it on his face), it shouldn't be a problem anymore. Or at least, that's how I'm understanding this? I used it on my horse, never harmed her.

And I've used the paprika for years, and she's always been fine, you don't even have to feed the pap all show season, just a month or so before they shed... So, no need to worry about drug testing at shows. Tada. Problem solved, no?


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## Katze (Feb 21, 2011)

^ Read the box, your in the USA, i'm in Canada, canadian version had lead they took all the boxes off the shelves and changed lead ingredient, no idea whats in it now all I know is there's alot of poop lol and hard to pronounce most of it, main ingredients in professional color are: pigment, vitamin C, amonia and shampoo.

The paprika seems like a good deal, I read somewhere that Black Knight doesnt work all the time, no idea if thats true, was on HT I believe. And if your not doing any eventing the drug test would be kind of moot lol.

From everything that i've read only "sure" thing is a fly sheet with the neckpiece, out only after sundown, keeps em dark and smexy.:wink:

Do u feed the pap throughout the winter or the whole year?


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## DubyaS6 (Aug 30, 2010)

How long does the paprika take to get "out of their system" for the drug test?

I am not familiar with how the test is done (I would assume its not a hair test, but I have no idea).


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## Woodland Eventer (Jan 26, 2011)

I've never been too worried about the chemicals in the Just For Men, they're not very strong. And as long as you're not using them around the nose and mouth of your horse, there shouldn't be any inhalation problems.

I only feed pap from February til the middle of April(I start showing in Mid May), and it keeps her color fairly deep. Of course, she fades a tiny bit as she's out 24/7 in the sun with no sheet. Sometimes, if I plan to show in the winter, I feed mid September to late October as well.

The pap gets absorbed, and the the darkening properties are taken and used, but the chemical makeup of it gets digested like normal food. Or at least, that's how I'm understanding it. I've never REALLY looked into it, but that's how I would think it happens...

They usually do a pee test, but will, on occasion, take blood around here. I've never seen a blood test happen at any local shows, but heard of a few intstances at some events on Dressage horses...


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## Katze (Feb 21, 2011)

But does the pap still show up as a negative in the test even after stopping use after 1 month?


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

^FYI I never used Just For Men  all I know is my horse didn't react to what I used and she's fine...and let me tell you she has sensitive skin and allergies and the dye didn't do anything  

Not saying all horses would have that experience...just makin a point that not all dyes are evil with lead in them 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CCH (Jan 23, 2011)

Opentip.com: Healthy Haircare Product Sunflower Sunscreen Quart - Hscr32 <-----This for mane, tail & forelock

Then a sheet & neckrug. No your horse will not die of Rickets if you keep him covered.

I too disagree with coloring a horse's hair for two reasons 1. OTC colors I believe to be more damaging and generally not good for horses and 2. It is against the rules in many breed associations.


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## SilverSpur (Mar 25, 2010)

i dont know if you have it over there, but FFS(full fat soya bean meal) is fantastic for darkening and conditioning a horse! on all the horses ive used it on ive had fantastic results. my current boy was very badly sun bleached and a month on FFS is already a whole lot darker. you only need to feed 1 cup a day for a horse, so it works out pretty cheap(well here anyway)


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