# Breeding color



## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

If you do breed this cross, you have a 75% chance of a red roan and a 25% chance of chestnut (no roan)... Assuming neither are homozygous roan as it is unusual to be homozygous roan (few roans have tested to be homozygous roan which proved the theory of homozygous roans of being lethal, killing the foal inutero/early development)

As far as what the potential foal's best discipline would be, that is all part of the breeding gamble and has many variables including the foal's personality/heart to compete.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Yes but assuming homozygous roan is not viable, then wouldn't the outcome be 2/3 roan 1/3 chesnut?

Guess that's not really a huge difference haha!

Completely agree, there are SOOOO many different factors in breeding.


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## kricket (Apr 1, 2015)

They both are not homozygous roan I believe
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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

Homozygous roan was once thought to be lethal in utero, but it has been found that it not actually the case. This came out of early difficulty testing for roan and suspect results. Here's a list of several homozygous roan studs. Most commonly seen in AQHA and Belgians. Â Hancock Horses .comÂ Â |Â Â Homozygous Roan Stallions


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Yogiwick said:


> Yes but assuming homozygous roan is not viable, then wouldn't the outcome be 2/3 roan 1/3 chesnut?
> 
> Guess that's not really a huge difference haha!
> 
> Completely agree, there are SOOOO many different factors in breeding.


I forgot to finish my thought before posting LOL

It was a theory that homozygous roan wasn't viable in development but that was proven wrong when a few roans tested as homozygous. It just isn't common for a roan to be homozygous as there is only a very small percentage of roans who are tested homozygous ;-)

So crossing two heterozygous roans gives you 25% chance homozygous roan, 50% chance heterozygous roan and 25% chance no roan. 

There are so many factors in breeding for a discipline that even the race horse industry is stumped as to why a perfectly bred racer from the best bloodlines is a plod along pony and a no name bred racer is a born winner on the track. 
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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

I got a deal on 2 qh mares once that were 3 in 1 packages. Stallion was a blue roan, mare #1 was a sorrel. The foal at her side at the time of purchase was a red roan colt and the following spring she had a bay roan colt. Mare #2 was a red roan and had a black colt on her side, and a black filly the following spring. Those horses just didn't listen to the statistics at all!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

JCnGrace said:


> I got a deal on 2 qh mares once that were 3 in 1 packages. Stallion was a blue roan, mare #1 was a sorrel. The foal at her side at the time of purchase was a red roan colt and the following spring she had a bay roan colt. Mare #2 was a red roan and had a black colt on her side, and a black filly the following spring. Those horses just didn't listen to the statistics at all!


I always got frustrated with "learning probability" in school... Good to get the idea but an excellent example of how ultimately it really does NOT matter! lol


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

JCnGrace said:


> I got a deal on 2 qh mares once that were 3 in 1 packages. Stallion was a blue roan, mare #1 was a sorrel. The foal at her side at the time of purchase was a red roan colt and the following spring she had a bay roan colt. Mare #2 was a red roan and had a black colt on her side, and a black filly the following spring. Those horses just didn't listen to the statistics at all!


So that means sire was heterozygous black and heterozygous roan. Mare #1 had agouti hiding under her red coat. Mare #2 didn't. Mare #2 was heterozygous roan, as well.

With sire being heterozygous black, there was a 50/50 chance of black-based or red-based for both mares. Chance for roan with mare #1 was 50/50. With mare #2, it was 25% chance homozygous roan, 50% heterozygous roan, and 25% chance solid. 

This is assuming the same stud sired all four foals.

Punnet squares are fun when you try to do them in your head after a ten-hour work day. :lol:
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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Yup, same stud and got into the 25 percentile twice. LOL Same way my favorite mare had a 50% chance of throwing a filly each time but gave me 4 colts out of 3 different stallions. In fact I looked long and hard for baby daddy #2 because I added throws a higher percentage of fillies than colts to my list of must haves. That stallion was also a tovero which at that point in time the experts said 75 - 80 percent chance of getting a spotted foal out of solid mares. I got a solid bay colt. Well he had one white anklet and a crooked blaze but no white that would qualify him for the regular registry in APHA. 

This is how my luck runs!


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

JCnGrace said:


> Yup, same stud and got into the 25 percentile twice. LOL Same way my favorite mare had a 50% chance of throwing a filly each time but gave me 4 colts out of 3 different stallions. In fact I looked long and hard for baby daddy #2 because I added throws a higher percentage of fillies than colts to my list of must haves. That stallion was also a tovero which at that point in time the experts said 75 - 80 percent chance of getting a spotted foal out of solid mares. I got a solid bay colt. Well he had one white anklet and a crooked blaze but no white that would qualify him for the regular registry in APHA.
> 
> This is how my luck runs!


Studies have found that it is sometimes the mare that can have a preferred foal gender, the environment of the uterus can give more advantage to a particular half of the semen (either the X chromosome sperm for fillies or the Y chromosome sperm for colts). While stallions may have an overall higher rate of one gender over another as to what they produced, some mares influence the odds with uterus environment. 

Just like sometimes the method and frequency/timing of breeding can influence the gender. The Y chromosome sperm for colts tend to swim faster which can reach an egg faster than the counterparts but they also tend to have a shorter viability (burn out faster). So, if you do live cover or AI right as a mare ovulated, you have a higher chance of a colt whereas if ovulation occurs shortly after the breeding, you get a higher chance of filly. ;-)
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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

We always did live cover. AI was just getting starting to get popular back then.


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