# help- dog pouncing on horses.



## JamieLeighx (Nov 27, 2010)

I posted here because i thought there would be alot more direct answers.

So , Leon my 3 year old boxer sometimes pounces on my horse and my male donkey. He sometimes humps the donkey , Thankfully the donkey and Dealer are very placid and dont kick out-yet-.
Leon has never encountered farm animals before now as we lived in a town.He is doing very well so far except this problem which is quite serious.
Has anyone had any experience with their dogs doing this and how did you train them to stop?
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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Either tie him or pen him up (the dog). You can probably train him to behave when you are there watching by punishing the bad behavior, but that won't stop him from doing it again when you aren't watching. IMHO, there would be too much risk of either the horses getting tired of it and attacking or him taking it a step farther and getting nippy with the horses, which can lead to biting, which can lead to an attack and serious injuries/death for either the dog or one/both of the horses.


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## JamieLeighx (Nov 27, 2010)

He is penned this is why I want to train him to stop because it isn't fair to keep him penned 24/7. 
He doesn't do it at every chance he gets, only the odd time. I want to solve it because my horse is coming home for the summer and he is alot more powerful than the donkeys and can do alot of harm.
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## christabelle (Feb 13, 2011)

Any of our dogs that have ever harrassed the horses (2 that i can think of, my dobie and a herding type dog my mom had when i was young) have eventually gotten a kick, and the problem was solved. Not by death... They just Didint do it again.
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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

Invest in a shock collar. Typically I am a _"let him learn his lesson"_ but when you see many cases of dogs with eyes kicked out and the vet bill...You change your mind. Its worth a shot IMO


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## JamieLeighx (Nov 27, 2010)

Im trying to avoid him getting kicked as lacey said I dont want an eye out or brain-damaged.
Are there any more natural training methods?
Im not for shock collars as IMO I think they are quite cruel.
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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Getting kicked is a lot crueler and more natural.

There are ways to train your dog to leave other animals alone but it's going to be difficult do to his age. I would train the command "leave it" first and then start applying that command to the other animals. This will require you to keep your dog on a leash when around the other animals so you can administer an appropriate correction. 

Does your dog sit, stay, come, down, and heel?


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## JamieLeighx (Nov 27, 2010)

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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

One of my dogs used to hump ponys back legs. 

Harvey booted him one and he has never done it again.No major damage to dog or pony and one very very obediant dog who wont go near harvey and does not harrass any horses now.

Personaly I think they will only take one kick to get the messege. 

We also trained our westie to leave sheep alone by putting him in a pen with some rams. Pen had a small ledge that westie could get under and rams couldnt. The rams terrified the westie and he never ever chased sheep again. That is much much kinder then a bullet from a farmer if a dog is found chasing sheep.


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## JamieLeighx (Nov 27, 2010)

I just don't like the thought of giving him an electric shock.
Yes, he knows all basic commands but because there were no other animals around he was never trained to that extent. Like most boxers he suffers from a bit of selective hearing , he will come though but I do have to yell at him to get him away from the horses.
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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Faye, our dogs stopped stealing the horse's food when Soda nipped them. He's actually a very vicious biter, but just nipped them pretty lightly. No damage done and the dogs leave the horse's food alone. 

Our dogs are trained to leave the horses alone with a "leave it" or a "heel" or a combination of "sit" and "stay." Basically you take away the opportunity for the dog to perform the unacceptable behavior, eventually they will understand that it is not acceptable and will cease to do it. Some dogs (with higher prey drives) will never be trustworthy with it and will need to be supervised. Others will get it quickly and you won't have to worry about it. Either which way it requires your dog to understand some basic commands and you to be committed to training it. That's why I asked what your dog was already trained to do.

ETA - Sorry I didn't see your post. Ok if you don't want to use a shock collar then you need to keep him on a leash when around the horses/farm animals. Teach him "leave it" with other things and then bring that to the animals.


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## JamieLeighx (Nov 27, 2010)

Thank you tigerstripes, I was thinking over and I think this is what I need to do-
1.get good consistant leave it with dormant objects.
2.at a distance walk past telling him leave it.
3.keep getting closer over a period of time.
4.long line
5.only when that is perfected work on it off lead. 

I think it would also be benefital to teach him that he is not aloud into the field. One step at a time for now though I think!
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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

That is definitely a good idea. I don't worry about that particular one with my dogs, but they know that horses are not toys. My house lab does know "out of the kitchen" and "git" means to get out of either the kitchen or that particular area.

You can teach a dog almost anything it just requires patience and persistence. I think you'll be fine if you really work at blocking the behavior (leash/long line) and teaching him a command that SHOWS him that it's unacceptable (leave it). 

Not sure how much exercise he is getting but that could be a big deal too. I know Boxers are generally a fairly high energy breed (much like Labs) and especially at his age he's probably got a ton of it. Maybe if you took him on runs/bike rides 1-2x a day it'll help him relax a bit. Or see if he likes to retrieve.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

JamieLeighx said:


> He is penned this is why I want to train him to stop because it isn't fair to keep him penned 24/7.


It is not fair for you to let him get hurt because he has not been taught to behave around the horses either.

I agree, a good leave it command is needed here plus you not allowing him access to the animals when he is not supervised.


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## Serendipitous (May 27, 2011)

Is he fixed?
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## JamieLeighx (Nov 27, 2010)

He is walked everday and is usually out about 3-4 hours supervised around the house along with our jack russell.
Leon knows to get out of the room with "Git" Aswell and he will go lay down out of the way with "Get to bed".
He is not neutured because we didn't feel the need to as it never affected his behavior before and we don't have any plans to breed him.
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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Seems that it is affecting his behavior now though, as he is humping the donkeys. I'd get him neutered if I were you, and just keep him away from the horses or leashed when he is around them. 
One of my closest friends has a Lab that has always been around horses, she rides with the dog all the time. But the other week he got too close to a horse, and was kicked in the face, he lost most of his teeth.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Get him neutered.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

JamieLeighx said:


> He is not neutured because we didn't feel the need to as it never affected his behavior before and we don't have any plans to breed him.


It's cruel to leave him intact if he's not going to be a breeding animal. He has all the instincts and you're restricting him from acting on them, which is why he's trying to hump anything with four legs.

Get him neutered, put some actual training on him, and let him be a dog. Otherwise, he's going to get stomped by a ****ed off equid, hit by a car, or some annoyed farmer is going to SSS, and you'll be responsible for his death.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Get him neutered.
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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Another vote for neutering.

No reason to leave a dog intact (unless you are a truly responsible breeding operation).


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Yet another vote for neutering.


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## JamieLeighx (Nov 27, 2010)

I thought this would come up. I understand what you's are all saying, I just don't have over £100 spare to get him neutured.
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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

From google it seems that low cost neutering is only available in Ireland if you are on benefits or a pensioner. 

You will have to keep him away from the horses then til you can afford it. That doesn't mean he has to be penned up all the time, just leashed.


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

The spca do discount neutering or set up payment with your registered vet


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Maggi, the OP is in Ireland.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

JamieLeighx said:


> I thought this would come up. I understand what you's are all saying, I just don't have over £100 spare to get him neutured.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Not trying to be offensive at all, so please don't take it that way, but if you can't afford the things required to keep your pet safe (and neutering certainly tops that list if he is putting himself in harms' way by humping your equids), and are unable to otherwise restrain him for his own protection, then maybe you should consider re-homing him to someone who can provide the care he needs?


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## JamieLeighx (Nov 27, 2010)

In my eyes (and many other peoples I know) it is not essential if you buy a dog to neuter , I had no reason at the time to do so. I think this can be solved with persistant training and at 3 years old I doubt it would change his behaviour. Selling is not a option , he is fed and well cared for.
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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

JamieLeighx said:


> In my eyes (and many other peoples I know) it is not essential if you buy a dog to neuter , I had no reason at the time to do so. I think this can be solved with persistant training and at 3 years old I doubt it would change his behaviour. Selling is not a option , he is fed and well cared for.


I know lots of people who think things that are not good for them or their animals are a good thing. It does not make it so.
Neutering might not be essential, food and water are essential, but it is the right thing to do if you are a responsible pet owner. 

Are you saying that the training will not change his behavior or the neutering?

I am thinking you mean neutering though that is not what the sentence says. 
Even at 3 the lack of testosterone after neutering will change his behavior.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

JamieLeighx said:


> In my eyes (and many other peoples I know) it is not essential if you buy a dog to neuter , I had no reason at the time to do so.



I think your dog is quite clearly showing you why that logic doesn't hold true. If you glean no other education from this experience, nothing else, at least take that as one lesson learned?


ETA, I think the premise here is it shouldn't take your dog showing you WHY it needs done, although in this case, that is what it has come to. Yes, neutering will stop him from humping your donkey. Once the testosterone clears his system, he will no longer have that desire. 

Would you find it logical to wait to geld your horse until he has broken through the fence, bred six of your neighbors mares, and broken a leg in the process? The point of good pet ownership isn't about waiting until your animal gives you a reason to have it done - it's about being proactive for the protection of your beloved pets.


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## JamieLeighx (Nov 27, 2010)

This is not entirely true , in my case it could also be to show dominance. This may or may not stop from neutering as it is not always 100% I have many examples to show this.

I started this thread for training advice as this is what I plan on doing.
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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Training will be much easier if you are not fighting with the testosterone that is telling the dog something different.

Just a FYI - Indy has quite a bit of dog owning and training experience. She is not just a casual dog owner. 



I think you are going to find training your un-neutered male dog pretty difficult because you sound like the type of owner who makes excuses for everything the dog does wrong. You do not want to 'hurt' the dog, you do not want to pen the dog, you do not want neuter the dog.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

JamieLeighx said:


> This is not entirely true , in my case it could also be to show dominance. This may or may not stop from neutering as it is not always 100% I have many examples to show this.


And you honestly find that valid justification for NOT neutering him?? It COULD be true, though the fact remains that it is not the most rational reasoning, the need to be neutered is still the MOST LIKELY CULPRIT here. 

You obviously know so much about canine nature, I'm not sure why you need training tips, you clearly know it all.

Why did you even ask for advice?

I suppose a 1000 vet bill to sew up your dog's broken and kicked open head is much more palatable in your mind than 100 for your dog losing his beloved manly bits.

You can't fix stupid. I'm done with this thread! :roll:


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## JamieLeighx (Nov 27, 2010)

I'd be up for it if I had the money to do so but I don't as Im a teenager with no job until September. 
That is the reason why I asked for training advice, when I have the money to neuter him I will but for now I don't
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## Serendipitous (May 27, 2011)

Isn't it funny how I had absolutely nothing to go off of with my suspicions that your dog was not neutered with the exception of his behavior? And gee wow, it turnedout to be true. That should tell you something.

It probably never occured to anyone else because they would think: "Well, surely if her dog is exhibiting a SEXUAL behavior like humping and asking about how she can fix it, she would have already done the obvious thing and taken his hormones out of the equation." I, however, have much lower expectations of the common sense of people.

Get him neutered before his behavior becomes habit-based in addition to hormone-based, please.
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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

I am also in the neuter him camp, If he is not going to be bred from then there is no point and it does sound like your problems are hormone based

One of my Dogs is nuetered, one isnt. The one that isn't is a beautiful specimen of a golden retriever with a temprement to die for (a kid once poked him in the eye and he got up and walked away) and whilst we have no plans on breeding him now we have concidered it in the future when we have a bit more time. 
That said he has never jumped out to go after a *****, he has NEVER caused problems anywhere, we let him off the lead on the beach/in the woods because he comes back perfectly and whilst he will greet any dog he has never even thought about getting agressive. He only ever humped a horses leg once and got kicked for his efforts, he now trys to play football with them instead (the kick was actualy in quite a controled situation so very little chance of real damage, just alot of bruising), he has never ever humped a humans leg. He is a young (3 yr old), VERY fit, Extremely athletic (seen him jump a 5ft gate from a standstill when out on a walk, whilst we struggled to manhandle the other dog over the style) dog who seems to believe he is a teddy bear!

The neutered one is also a golden retriever, however he is nervy/nurotic and not the type I would think about breeding from (rescue doggy who was very obviously a puppy mill doggy). He was cut to give him a better life and to ensure that his bad genes never get passed on.

Do yourself and your dog a favor, get him nutered so that he doesnt have to deal with the hormones and doesnt get himself injured or killed jumping out over fences or humping horses.


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## JamieLeighx (Nov 27, 2010)

I will neuter him , when I have the money. He is from a exceptional breeder with the looks and temperment , he has never jumped a human or other animal until now . As I have no desire to breed I will neuter.
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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Have you mentioned to your parents the need to get this dog neutered?


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## JamieLeighx (Nov 27, 2010)

Yes, my mother wants to breed him( i wont let her) and my father doesnt like the idea for of his manly bits being taken away.
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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

It sounds like he might not have been a good purchase for your family to start with.


Maybe one of these times when the dog is humping the horses he will get kicked. Then your dad and mom can pay a whole bunch more to have those manly bits removed than they would have paid for a normal neuter.


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

JamieLeighx said:


> Yes, my mother wants to breed him( i wont let her) and my father doesnt like the idea for of his manly bits being taken away.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Research the internet and show them facts on the benefits of neutering.

We almost lost a mastiff due to our negligence of not neutering. He developed Prostatitis and became very ill. The vet bill cost more than what it would have cost to have him fixed. Lesson learned


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## JamieLeighx (Nov 27, 2010)

He was bought as a family dog to start with not just mine but a few months after buying him my step-father died and then that created more problems and the dog war the only comfort i had at the time.
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## coffeeaddict (Jun 18, 2010)

I'm going to second, third, etc. the suggestion to neuter him. Weather he's humping due to dominance or sexual behavior neutering him will lesson, if not stop the behavior completely. 

Even if the neutering doesn't stop the humping on it's own, it'll still make any training you do much, much easier. 

I have four male dogs, two are neutered, two are intact. The two intact are show dogs, however I'm considering having it done anyway since they both have wonky ears that don't match up to the breed standard. They're perfectly nice dogs and have excellent conformation otherwise, but if the ear issues don't get resolved they'll both be taking a trip to the vet for a snip. 

Do they NEED it done? No, they don't hump, they don't roam, they don't act intact at all, but I've seen dogs die from testicular cancer. A show breeder friend of mine lost one of her best males to it. If my dogs aren't showing, they're getting snipped.


Unless your dog proves himself in the show ring I see no reason to breed him. There are too many really nice Boxers out there already, and far too many poor examples of the breed. We don't need more puppies in the world unless they come from fantastic parents and breeders that are trying to improve the breed as a whole.


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## JamieLeighx (Nov 27, 2010)

He is due for the snip soon , had a talk with my mother and she has agreed. She still wants a litter from him out of my aunts ***** which I am not keen on.
He has been judged by a few boxer breeders and his only major fault is he has an un-pigmented third eyelid(im not sure if you can show with this or not) . He is an excellent mover and is very square with a good head.

But he will be getting the snip very soon.
I started his training today , he done very well! He was off lead after 5 minutes. Didnt attempt to hump once and responded promptly and was enthusiatic about it. I went inside and watched to see what he would do left unattended , he went into the field twice - first time to pee and second he went to get a drink from the trough both times the donkeys walked over to him and he didnt even look sideways at them! I even went into the chicken and goats(on leash) and I must say the were more badly behaved than him!
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## coffeeaddict (Jun 18, 2010)

Being judged well by boxer breeders means nothing unless those breeders were also judges at a dog show you paid money to enter. When it comes to the third eyelid that really depends on how noticeable it is and what your breed standard says. In general it's not desirable. 

I realize it's your mother that wants this litter and not you, but I do hope you two are able to work something out that doesn't result in more puppies. 

In regards to his training, I think you're moving too fast for him. I would suggest slowing it down and not giving him so much freedom when he hasn't earned it yet.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

JamieLeighx said:


> Im trying to avoid him getting kicked as lacey said I dont want an eye out or brain-damaged.
> Are there any more natural training methods?
> Im not for shock collars as IMO I think they are quite cruel.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They are not at all cruel. If you get a good one you can just vibrate and warn them. They also have setting to adjust from a minimal shock to a more severe shock so it is up to you to decide how much power it has


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

churumbeque said:


> They are not at all cruel. If you get a good one you can just vibrate and warn them. They also have setting to adjust from a minimal shock to a more severe shock so it is up to you to decide how much power it has


Ok if money is an issue as I just read the other posts skip this idae because a good collar is not cheap


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## GeminiJumper (Jun 12, 2008)

Glad to hear he is getting the snip snip!

Who is paying for the neuter? Parents? If YOU are the owner, and your mom or aunt really wants pups out of your aunts dog, could you possibly charge them? That might help cover the neuter fees or put off their idea of breeding him.

The whole humping deal is, yes, caused by his testosterone. Especially when a male is not allowed to mate, your dog will have a lot of built up sexual frustration and start mounting things. It is also a sign of dominance. Getting him neutered will greatly help with the training as well as relieve you and him from future health issues caused by him remaining intact.

Another question. Was he always off lead when you let him outside and allowed to wander? Have you ever wondered if he's mated with other dogs? Just something to think about having left him intact and not bothering to neuter.


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## JamieLeighx (Nov 27, 2010)

He always stays in on our property(only about 2 acres). There are no bitches in our lane only 2 lab males.
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