# Sorry Buckskin people but I have a stupid color question...



## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Buckskins are bay + cream. The picture you posted is very much a buckskin.

Red duns are chestnut/sorrel + dun. Dun dilutes similarly to cream, which is what makes the chestnut color so light. (Bay duns look very similar to buckskins because of this.)

Verrrry different genes. :lol: 

Neither dun nor cream exist in the Arab breed, so not a stupid question. :]

Gimme a second and I'll get a picture of a buckskin and a red dun standing next to each other (I conveniently happen to have a few. )


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

My buckskin and my friend's red dun:
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...0276843773233_517383232_7780132_2114255_n.jpg

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...0276844803233_517383232_7780160_5000873_n.jpg
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...0276838898233_517383232_7780020_3289073_n.jpg

I honestly don't blame you because this summer, I mistook that gelding for Abby all the time when they were out in their pasture. Their body color was very similar and he was a rather dark tail.


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## MySerenity (Jul 18, 2011)

that's really helpful! The reason I asked in the first place was I'm looking to buy a red dun and they said she was ibha eligible so it confused me. Cute horses!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Horsesdontlie (Mar 11, 2011)

This is stupid ol' me asking, but I thought buckskins could NOT have white on them? They had to be solid.....Or is just just a registry thing?


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Who said she was ineligible? The owners or the IBHA? Colors Eligible Red dun is listed as acceptable on the IBHA's website.



Horsesdontlie said:


> This is stupid ol' me asking, but I thought buckskins could NOT have white on them? They had to be solid.....Or is just just a registry thing?


Definitely not true about any registry that I've ever heard of. Buckskin isn't any different than any other color and a rule that they cannot have white would be ridiculous. Unless you'd like to be the one to explain that to the annoyed face in my avatar that her blaze is unacceptable.


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## Horsesdontlie (Mar 11, 2011)

Hmm I am rather unknowledgeable on the colors subject. But its what I had heard from somone, I thought thats why SBR Formula One was considered a Dunskin. Or is it merely pedigree and the lack of a creme gene? From what I understand he can't be both dun and buckskin....but they combine it anyways?


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Sure they can! SBR Formula One (I love him, by the way) is a buckskin with the dun gene or "dunskin". Hollywood Dun It was too.Dun can affect any color it wants to.

This is the best way I've heard horses with multiple layers of color genes (like a dunskin): 
"Think of it as adding food coloring to water. If you drop blue food coloring into water, what color will the water turn? Blue! But what if you add yellow color to the blue water? There's no law against adding a second modifying color to the blue water, so do it! It then changes to green. You can keep on adding colors, and the water will keep changing for a couple more turns."


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## Horsesdontlie (Mar 11, 2011)

He is adorable. xD I personally love buckskins/duns with white on them.

That makes sense. Thank you for answering. =)


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## Macslady (Oct 23, 2009)

I hope to not sound stupid, but which causes the barring on the upper part of the leg and the stripe down they back? Is that the dun factor? My girl is gold with the barring, stripe down the back, would that make her a dunskin or is that a lighter color? I get so lost in all these color definitions.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

The dun gene gives the primitive markings of leg barring,dorsal stripe etc.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Macslady said:


> I hope to not sound stupid, but which causes the barring on the upper part of the leg and the stripe down they back? Is that the dun factor? My girl is gold with the barring, stripe down the back, would that make her a dunskin or is that a lighter color? I get so lost in all these color definitions.


Could you post a picture of her? Or does she have a black mane and tail or white? I mentioned earlier that dun can affect any color, which includes palomino.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Excellent explanations, Po .

Macs, like Po said, dun can affect any color: dun gene on a black horse = grullo, dun gene on a sorrel horse = red dun, dun gene on a buckskin = dunskin, dun gene on a palomino = dunalino. Even though there are very few of the rarer dun colors like dunskin or dunalino recognized by registries, that doesn't make them any less a real color.

BTW, here is a good picture of a dunalino. Does your mare look similar to that?


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## MySerenity (Jul 18, 2011)

now Im really confused. what general coloration defines a "dun" then. not genetics, just colors...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

The colour must be diluted (made lighter). There must be a true dorsal, not countershading. There should also be other 'dun factor' markings - dark ear tips, shoulder barring, leg barring, face mask, shoulder mottling etc.









This pic shows a lot of the dun factor.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Myserenity, unless I am mistaken, what would be called a typical dun is a dun gene on a bay horse.









Though technically, a "dun" horse is a horse of any shade or base color that exhibits the characteristics of the dun gene such as leg barring, dorsal stripe, shoulder bars, etc. The other words just decribe what the base color underneath the dun is.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Yep, Smrobs, the color that is typically referred to as only "dun" is actually a bay dun. Bay duns are also a perfect example of how the dun gene dilutes (lightens) a coat, as they are often mistaken for buckskins.


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## outnabout (Jul 23, 2010)

smrobs said:


> Macs, like Po said, dun can affect any color: dun gene on a black horse = grullo, dun gene on a sorrel horse = red dun, dun gene on a buckskin = dunskin, dun gene on a palomino = dunalino. Even though there are very few of the rarer dun colors like dunskin or dunalino recognized by registries, that doesn't make them any less a real color.


So does that make my little guy a dunskin? I always wondered about this. First two pics are of him, and the last two of his sire (gorgeous!) and dam (flea-bitten grey, meh).


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## outnabout (Jul 23, 2010)

OK, so I forgot the flea-bitten grey dam pic, but you all don't need a visual for that...


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

It would depend on what color his dam was before she grayed out. It's possible with how light he is, but he would have needed to get the cream gene from one of his parents, and I don't entirely think it was his sire.


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## outnabout (Jul 23, 2010)

Poseidon said:


> It would depend on what color his dam was before she grayed out. It's possible with how light he is, but he would have needed to get the cream gene from one of his parents, and I don't entirely think it was his sire.


So interesting... I will try to find out what color she was. It is not really that important since none of them are registered but it would be really cool if he was a "dunskin". He is pretty special, as it is


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

For kicks and giggles, you could have him tested for cream to be 100%. It's a $25 test.


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## MySerenity (Jul 18, 2011)

I need to dig up a pic of my last Arab then. He was born a bay with a dorsal stripe, shoulder bars and zebra stripes. He grayed out in the end so most of it disappeared but would he have still been a dun even if he wasn't diluted? Although he was about the same color bay as the one in the picture above so would he be a dun even though he grayed out?? 

This is all very interesting. I absolutely love the fact that there is so much variety in horse colors. It makes things so fun!


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Foals are often born with what looks like dun markings (the zebra barring on legs, dorsal stripe, etc), but it is just meant as camouflage. Foals are also born a with foal coat that looks only vaguely like what their adult color will look like (ie, black horses are born kind of a mousy gray/brown color).

He definitely could not have been a dun because dun does not exist in the Arab breed, nor does cream. That's why you never see a buckskin or grulla Arab. At least not a purebred one.


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## Macslady (Oct 23, 2009)

Here are a few pics of her. I always put a disclaimer on since I take about the crappiest pictures ever. Husband says don't quit your day job. :lol: She is the lighter color, the rest were taken in the shade. It's a gold, but a deep gold so I am guessing by your description she is a regular dun. She used to be a broodmare before we got her, she's 17 now. I guess she foaled a lot of grulla/dun babies.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

I would say bay dun and not dunskin. She is gorgeous.

As far as the photos go, while so close to sunset is great for 'nice' photos, they are not great for photos to show a horse's colour. The light is really gold, and makes the horse appear a different colour. Aside from that, they are really good photos. She is beautiful!


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## outnabout (Jul 23, 2010)

Poseidon said:


> For kicks and giggles, you could have him tested for cream to be 100%. It's a $25 test.


Next time vet comes out I'll ask for it! Thanks for the info.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Outnabout - You don't use your vet for color testing. Use a place like UC Davis ( Horse Tests )


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## outnabout (Jul 23, 2010)

NdAppy said:


> Outnabout - You don't use your vet for color testing. Use a place like UC Davis ( Horse Tests )


Ok. Thanks.


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