# Clinton Anderson training question :>



## Fimargue (Jun 19, 2015)

I treat adult horses and babies differently. Babies are in the process of learning and they have a short attention span. They also have days when they can be more tricky and out of reach. The babies I have raised are now at their best as rising two year olds. Between there were temper tantrums and days when they didn't want to know lol. With babies, I might teach new things everytime I dealt with them. With adults, I assume they know things.


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## Abstang2002 (Feb 16, 2017)

Fimargue said:


> I treat adult horses and babies differently. Babies are in the process of learning and they have a short attention span. They also have days when they can be more tricky and out of reach. The babies I have raised are now at their best as rising two year olds. Between there were temper tantrums and days when they didn't want to know lol. With babies, I might teach new things everytime I dealt with them. With adults, I assume they know things.


Thanks. This has given me some more info
About what to do.
My gelding is almost two but as you said, has a short attention span. But he is a quick learner. So I think it's safe to say he can be treated differently than the adults. Thanks for replying.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I completely disagree with the blanket statement to "treat all horses the same" I might not care about the breed much, certainly not color . maybe you shouldn't let the past training influence you too much, but you still don't treat them exactly the same. you'll get a better result if you consider the personality some, what the horse needs most, the best way to reach a good place with them.

some horses do NOT get to becoming better horses by being asked to move around more. they need to learn how to slow dwn and think first. others need to learn how to stop thinking so much outside the pen and think on you, some need you to be really firm, others need you to have slower, more careful timing and give them some time to react.

to think you can approach them exactly the same is to think of them as nothing more than pieces in a cooker-cutter , formula of training. it can work on every hrose, but a considerate, varied approach can work better, IMO.


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## EmberScarlet (Oct 28, 2016)

I one up @tinyliny. I can't do the same things the same way with a small pony like Elvis the same way I do with big ol' Ellie. They are all different and work different ways.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

There are many things that you can do the same but I have to agree that you can't do everything the same. Some horses are very reactive and that will give you a different response than you would get from a horse that is a thinker. The blanket statement is fine. You can definitely use a ton of techniques on just about any horse but there are some things that work well with a certain type of horse and not so well with another. I have used the CA method on 2 of my 6 horses. The first horse does just fine with his "aggressive" approach. I call it aggressive because I am a generally a quiet ground person so the lessons that he gives are to me, aggressive. My second horse that I'm doing it with is very reactive so I have to go at it with a much slower easier pace. I'm doing the same stuff but slower and quieter. 


As for the baby. No. You have to look at a baby as just that, a baby. Think of a two or three year old person. They have a really short attention span so you only have a short time to work with them. They also don't focus 100% of the time which means you may only get to work on one thing for a ten minute session. If you go to long you end up with a fit, if you end up with a fit, you end on a bad note... So one baby might give you twenty minutes of good work while another might give you five and then you have those days where baby doesn't want to work. No matter how hard you try. So you have to groom, pick feet,or blanket, something seemingly small, but still a win....


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

My assistant and I just had a chat about baby training. In her case it was a very young dog and she was trying to 'train until he gets it', in one session. I told her to put a toddler on the pot and leave him there til he's potty trained. He'll have a college degree and still not know how to use the bathroom. Babies have very short attention spans and need several short sessions. If your horse just came 2 in Jan, I would not expect him to 'get' the training anywhere nearly as quickly as a horse who turned 4 in Jan. Shorter attention span, still growing a LOT, needing to learn how to find his feet, there are a bunch of reasons why that horse is not the same as an older horse. 

I take CA's statement to mean that you should treat a horse like a horse. Each horse is different, but it's still a horse and needs firm, fair, consistent training methods, needs to be respectful of your space and person. Not every horse will respond to the same training methods, anymore than all humans respond to the same training methods. Some of us are visual learners and learn by watching, some auditory and learn by being told, and some are kinesthetic (physical) and learn by doing. Horses have different learn styles and stages too.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I agree with what others have said - maybe misinterpretation of what CA actually means is the reason why some people fail when they try to follow his methods or maybe he does mean it literally.
Young horses do have something in common with all young things, including human's, they don't have a very long attention span. Even as they get older some horses still don't have the ability to spend too long on one thing and get disruptive or lose focus - exactly the way that a lot of children in a classroom do. A good schoolteacher wouldn't expect all of her pupils in a mixed age/ability class to progress at the same rate so why would a horse trainer?
OP - you're mostly looking at young horses but I wouldn't expect a horse that's had past training or handling that's been different to the one I might use to react in the same way in the first week to one that's been trained and handled in the same style that I use. One thing we soon learn with horses is that everything a handler does with them is training so if a previous person has allowed a horse to do something wrong they've trained it to do that and a horse will remember that 'bad training' every bit as well as we want them to remember good training.
I also wouldn't expect to treat a very reactive, high energy horse in the same way that I would treat a placid sensible low energy one because that's a really good way to get yourself hurt


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## Abstang2002 (Feb 16, 2017)

tinyliny said:


> I completely disagree with the blanket statement to "treat all horses the same" I might not care about the breed much, certainly not color . maybe you shouldn't let the past training influence you too much, but you still don't treat them exactly the same. you'll get a better result if you consider the personality some, what the horse needs most, the best way to reach a good place with them.
> 
> some horses do NOT get to becoming better horses by being asked to move around more. they need to learn how to slow dwn and think first. others need to learn how to stop thinking so much outside the pen and think on you, some need you to be really firm, others need you to have slower, more careful timing and give them some time to react.
> 
> to think you can approach them exactly the same is to think of them as nothing more than pieces in a cooker-cutter , formula of training. it can work on every horse, but a considerate, varied approach can work better, IMO.


Clinton doesnt mean to treat them all the same like that, you are completely taking it the wrong way. Have you watched his videos? if not, then that explains it, but if so, then clearly you didnt get the message. Clintons point is about abuse, or past, or their previous training. If i was training 2 horses, one was a normal horse, and the other had been abused, i would go though the same steps and treat them the same. If the normal horse kicked at me, i would whip the ground as a warning. If the abused horse kicked at me, i would whip the ground as a warning the same as i did with the other horse. Because im not going to give the abused horse special treatment because he is abused! The horse doesnt know the difference. And the thought processes behind that sort of training is, if you had a herd of horses and one was abused, and it was feeding time, do you think the herd would let the abused horse eat first because he has had a rough time? NO. he will go into the pecking order like any other horse. When training, you become a part of the pecking order, and you , should be, the leader of the herd, so you should treat the horses the same. Same with horses that are trained/untrained. If i put 2 horses in a herd, one was trained and was worth millions, and the other could barely walk on a lead, they would be treated the same. They would both go into the pecking order the same. And thats one thing about Clintons training that i like, because when you are training the horse is going to size you up and put you above or below him, and the horse is going to treat you like you are one of the horses in the herd, so why shouldnt you just treat him like you are in the herd? 
But i also didn't request your opinion about the statement "All horses should be treated the same" I asked your opinions about age. And i really didnt see you address that in your reply.


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## Abstang2002 (Feb 16, 2017)

Im also going to have to correct all of you by saying, we really areent talking about a baby here. He didnt come out of his mom yesterday. He actually is almost not considered a yearlong because he is only a few weeks from being 2. That might not change your guys opinions and thats fine, but i would love it if people could stop acting like im training a horse that has been out of his mom for less than 3 seconds. He isnt clueless, its not like he is scared of people.. yeah he has the attention span of about 15 minutes, but he isnt a baby, if he was a human i would put him at about a nine year old. I feel like a few of you are basing your opinions off of the fact that im training a "Baby" but im really not. I said in my question that he was a yearling, then in a reply i explained that he was almost 2. And again, that might not change your opinions at all. but a few of these replies are based off of the fact that im training a baby....


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Abstang2002 said:


> Clinton doesnt mean to treat them all the same like that, you are completely taking it the wrong way. Have you watched his videos? if not, then that explains it, but if so, then clearly you didnt get the message. Clintons point is about abuse, or past, or their previous training. If i was training 2 horses, one was a normal horse, and the other had been abused, i would go though the same steps and treat them the same. If the normal horse kicked at me, i would whip the ground as a warning. If the abused horse kicked at me, i would whip the ground as a warning the same as i did with the other horse. Because im not going to give the abused horse special treatment because he is abused! The horse doesnt know the difference. And the thought processes behind that sort of training is, if you had a herd of horses and one was abused, and it was feeding time, do you think the herd would let the abused horse eat first because he has had a rough time? NO. he will go into the pecking order like any other horse. When training, you become a part of the pecking order, and you , should be, the leader of the herd, so you should treat the horses the same. Same with horses that are trained/untrained. If i put 2 horses in a herd, one was trained and was worth millions, and the other could barely walk on a lead, they would be treated the same. They would both go into the pecking order the same. And thats one thing about Clintons training that i like, because when you are training the horse is going to size you up and put you above or below him, and the horse is going to treat you like you are one of the horses in the herd, so why shouldnt you just treat him like you are in the herd?
> But i also didn't request your opinion about the statement "All horses should be treated the same" I asked your opinions about age. And i really didnt see you address that in your reply.



sorry that I could not offer you any insight as to how to handle age differences. but , other folks gave some excellent feedback.

your explanation was excellent. thank you.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Abstang2002 said:


> So i have already posted about CA. but i now have a question for people who use his method often and are VERY familiar with it. Like myself. One of the things i hear Clinton say a lot, its kind of one of his slogans, is "Treat every horse the same regardless of breed, past, training, color, gender, etc."
> And I agree with this 100%! but one thing he hasn't said in that slogan is...age. I dont know if he has left it out on purpose, if i just haven't seen the videos where he does say age, or if its just a coincidence and age is included in treating all horses the same, regardless of age.
> So im asking you guys, the people who use his method, and agree with treating all of them the same regardless of breed, gender, color, past training, and if you think age is included. Wold you treat 2 horses the same if they were different ages? Or do you think Clinton has left that out on purpose and its the exception??
> 
> ...


In your question you did not say you were training a two year old. You said you were training a yearling. People responded as such.


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## jgnmoose (May 27, 2015)

I am a fan of "The Method" and Clinton's general philosophy.

You are taking the statement a bit too literally to mean every single horse gets exactly the same thing.

What Clinton means is don't treat an Arab, a Tennessee Walker and a Quarter horse differently. Don't treat a horse with an ugly past differently than a horse that came from a good farm. It is meant to answer all those "Well, my horse is a Mustang crossed with a Morgan and her previous owners left her to rot in a pasture.." type questions. Or "My horse is a 30k colt by Gunner, why isn't he perfect?"

He is exactly right. The horses don't follow different rules because of their breed, color, past or whatever. Throw a new horse out with a bunch of cranky older mares. They won't treat that horse any different, they are bottom of the pecking order and they have to earn their spot in the herd. A top Mare won't hesitate to discipline a horse because they are skinny or came from a bad home. Read on his philosophy or watch the introductory video where he talks about it in detail, even with some real time examples of yearlings testing each other while he pets on them.

With young horses Clinton does treat them differently simply because their physical development and attention span aren't the same as a mature adult horse. It is the same stuff, just mindful of the fact they are babies. See the Titan series for a free example. The colt starting series goes into it in depth.


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## jgnmoose (May 27, 2015)

I should add that he talks a lot across a lot of material about chilling out hot horses and "heating up" cold lazy horses. I think he terms this the Luke warm horse, not hot and nervous and not falling asleep on you.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Abstang2002 said:


> If the normal horse kicked at me, i would whip the ground as a warning. If the abused horse kicked at me, i would whip the ground as a warning the same as i did with the other horse. Because im not going to give the abused horse special treatment because he is abused! The horse doesnt know the difference. And the thought processes behind that sort of training is, if you had a herd of horses and one was abused, and it was feeding time, do you think the herd would let the abused horse eat first because he has had a rough time? NO. he will go into the pecking order like any other horse. When training, you become a part of the pecking order, and you , should be, the leader of the herd, so you should treat the horses the same. Same with horses that are trained/untrained. If i put 2 horses in a herd, one was trained and was worth millions, and the other could barely walk on a lead, they would be treated the same. They would both go into the pecking order the same. And thats one thing about Clintons training that i like, because when you are training the horse is going to size you up and put you above or below him, and the horse is going to treat you like you are one of the horses in the herd, so why shouldnt you just treat him like you are in the herd?
> .


 That to me is fundamentally wrong and could get you or someone else that tried this method that didn't have CA's level of experience or confidence seriously hurt
If you have a horse that's been abused by humans that isn't going to affect the way it interacts with a herd in the same way a horse that's trained isn't recognized any differently by the herd to a horse that isn't but that's got no comparison at all to human interaction with those horses
If you whip the ground at a horse that's been abused and learnt to be defensive as a result of that abuse you're likely to get yourself run into the ground
If you whip the ground at a horse that's been abused and is afraid of the whip it will attempt to run away from it
If you whip the ground at a horse that's never been abused and has been desensitized to the whip so it sees it only as 'tool' it will do exactly what you've trained it to do in response to that 'cue'


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## jgnmoose (May 27, 2015)

jaydee said:


> That to me is fundamentally wrong and could get you or someone else that tried this method that didn't have CA's level of experience or confidence seriously hurt
> If you have a horse that's been abused by humans that isn't going to affect the way it interacts with a herd in the same way a horse that's trained isn't recognized any differently by the herd to a horse that isn't but that's got no comparison at all to human interaction with those horses
> If you whip the ground at a horse that's been abused and learnt to be defensive as a result of that abuse you're likely to get yourself run into the ground
> If you whip the ground at a horse that's been abused and is afraid of the whip it will attempt to run away from it
> If you whip the ground at a horse that's never been abused and has been desensitized to the whip so it sees it only as 'tool' it will do exactly what you've trained it to do in response to that 'cue'


True, but this is a good example of why people who want to try CA's stuff need to pony up and buy the kits, rent them or find a friend to borrow from. Don't watch the youtube videos and what is on RFDTV and go try it in the round pen. You would be missing a lot of critical information. 

He goes into extreme detail about how to handle basically everything. Clinton likes to talk, and he likes to explain things. In his philosophy DVD he talks at length about how much he hated all the jargon in horsemanship when he was learning and his goal is to be crystal clear about everything. 

There is literally troubleshooting for every step. You don't just chase a horse around with a flag and a whip and hope for the best. There are specific steps in a specific order with a clear picture of what is expected from you and the horse, the ways it can go wrong, and what to do in each case.

I mean we are talking literally something like 12 hours of video just on ground work and another 6 or so just on basic riding exercises. 

The problem with some of his sayings is that they are true, but easily taken out of context. One that everyone should be able to understand is "Green and Green makes Black and Blue".


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## TaMMa89 (Apr 12, 2008)

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## MajorSealstheDeal (Jan 4, 2011)

I've been watching some of his older DVD's lately, in particular the series where he shows the whole progression with a BLM Mustang from beginning to end.

I wasn't really a big CA advocate until watching this series. Prior to that, I watched about an hour or two of his round penning DVD's, again he was very young so I'm not sure how old they are. 

It was really cool to contrast the two series, because one was a fat spoiled riding horse and one was a feral horse. He approaches the two very differently, and I really give him a lot of credit for that. CA was really soft and understanding with the feral horse, whereas with the fat and spoiled horse he was less so. Not cruel by any means, but there was less leeway with that one. 

I also like to watch his youtube videos before bed since they are short and entertaining. He has lots of good one liners and he's a good showman. The more I watch him, the more credit I give him. 

I like watching him because there isn't a lot of fluff, it's a lot of technique. I like reading Mark Rashid because he provides lots of principles and anecdotes. 

They seem like polar opposites, but I'm finding a middle ground between the two trainers that seems to really resonate with the opinions and ideas I already held, and it works with the horses.


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