# Day at the pasture ~overload of pictures!!~



## lilkitty90

ok so basically we finally fenced in a new pasture! not sure how many acres it is but it's about 3,000-3,500 feet along the fence line. and today we took tons of pictures. and 2 of the horses that arn't ours that are skinny are finally picking up weight, and charlie is beginning to fill out with all this grass, and baby is starting to be FAT! eeep! lol 

and once again as a disclaimed. ****the Appaloosa and the big chesnut with the red halter are NOT mine**** though we are begginning to get the owners to understand that they NEED to feed the horses. and plus they are now on a huge grassy pasture instead of our other 2 acre pasture that was all dirt.

and here are the horses in the pictures.
Chesnut with Red halter ~ Red
Appaloosa ~ Snowflake
Seal brown colt ~ Sparta
Bay Paint ~ Adelaide
Bay with blaze ~ Carmen
huge bay ~ Charlie
white looking horse ~ Baby
German Shepherd ~ Sophie
little white doggie ~ Claire

























































































































More comming!


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## lilkitty90

and more.. and once again.. excuse the poor old horsie i wish i had the money to help them out more = (


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## lilkitty90

and this is their other horse.


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## lilkitty90




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## lilkitty90

Sparta turned a year old on march 9th!!!








































































































one more set i believe


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## csimkunas6

Great pictures!! Looks like a great pasture...and looks like the horses love it!!


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## lilkitty90

aww poor little guy.. i think he has like the worst conformation EVER. but i still love him.. and he looks like he has a wormy belly.. yet i worm him every month and i am swapping between like 3-4 different types. when the vet comes out to geld him we are gonna get them all tube wormed. so maybe that will help?


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## SMCLeenie

great pictures!


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## AlexS

What's the story with the 2 horses that are not yours, why is the Appy in such terrible shape?


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## lilkitty90

honestly idk. that's sparta's mother. me and girl went in half and half for her. so while she was pregnant i owned her. she was in great condition. but once sparta was born she was no longer mine. they took good care of her at first. but then she deteriorated as the "new" wore off of her. plus she's in late 20s early 30s. so that doesn't help either = / we are trying to motivate them to feed her more. and at one point she was even MUCH skinnier that we paid a man to use their pasture and hauled her horse against her will to this pasture so she could pick up weight. and then after that month was over she forced to have her moved back. = / she's getting better. but her age isn't helping. the chesnut was bought by them at an old auction and he was bought as a 10 year old mare. and when the guy pulled him off the trailer. i was like "bobby, this is a gelding.." and i checked his teeth and he's over 15. sadly the appy hasn't had it's feet done in awhile, and while her toes arn't long, her heels are high which probably isn't comfortable. and luckily they did have the chesnut's done the last time we had our done which was about a month ago. so the chesnut gets better care than the appy,

and also we had animal control called, but the people called on snowflake's eye. because she is blind in one eye.... they didn't call about her weight.. it was about her eye..! wth! and the animal control said that she is fine  at least for now and if she gets anywhere he will come take her.


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## AlexS

Age makes it harder but it is not the reason. I would be calling animal control myself if I were you. 
I know it's not your horse, but its on your property - are they paying you board? Can you not feed her more? Who does the feedings?


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## apachewhitesox

Thats sad that the appy is like that. But I just want to say I love Baby and the paint (forgot its name) they are both very pretty.


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## lilkitty90

me and mom plan to call them, but they are already doing monthly check ups.

and actually it's not our property.. it's their property sadly. but we have it leased for 10 years. we buy OUR feed and feed our horses. and we feed their horses though we shouldn't have to. but they supply their feed, they have both of their horses on a senior feed. and the each get 4 quarts a day. on top of eating the hay WE buy for OUR horses. so basically yes we are caring for their horses. and technically their condition should fall back on us. but we are doing our job. she needs a vet. and probably pretty severely. and we've told them that. and we've told animal control that. and animal control has told them that. but they still haven't.

that big chesnut needed a serious vet when he poked his eye on a branch and it took a big chunk out of his eye. and i repetedely(sp?) called them and told them their horse was hurt that he needed a vet. and he waited 2-3 weeks before he finally called a vet. and got some antibiotics to put in his eye. he could have had complete vision back but because he waited the chesnut has limited vision in one eye. and the appaloosa is completely blind in one of it's eyes (though they bought her that way)

so we pay them 80$'s a month to lease the whole 60 acres of property. and technically it's their grandmother we are paying. and we have complete and full right to make them move their horses for not taking care of them. but thats just going to cause a whole lot of problems for us and our horses to stay there, and i feel if we did that it wouldn't be safe for our horses to be here. nor would they or me feel happy and i wouldn't feel comfortable being there.

it's all realyl a nasty situation = /


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## lilkitty90

thank you apachie. i do feel really sorry for snowflake and i wish i could afford to do more for her. 

and thanks baby is my pride and joy and i truely believe she is my heart horse. i trained her myself from scratch when i first learned to ride. and she was the first horse i ever rode.

and adelaide (the paint) is my sisters horse. we found her at an auction. she is a diamond in the rough. she is so well trained that as a 3 year old any beginner can ride her as plain as day and she will do perfect for them.


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## AlexS

I understand it's a tough situation to be in. And you are getting one heck of a deal on the price of the land. Would the grandmother maybe be willing to let you go rent free for a while while you get their horses back to health?


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## lilkitty90

no, because we were going rent free because she wanted someone to get use out of the land, plus her kids (the horses owners) don't exactly take good care of her, and she NEEDS the money badly, like one day the payment was a couple days late and she went hungry = / and my stepdad fixes her heat and airconditioner and stuff for free because she can't afford it. sadly it is a very sad situation but she was letting us use the land for free even though we pushed and pushed to pay, and finally she agreed to a lease. we needed the lease badly incase these people decided our horses needed to be off of their property now, and we had no where to move our horses.


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## lilkitty90

and as for the price of the land. i know we are! and it's great for us because we honestly can't afford horses. but because of her graciousness we can. and it really warms my heart. she was letting some guy use and farm and make money off of all 60 acres, and only paying her 40$'s a month. but he was getting up in age and his machines wont stay working. so we offered her double and she took it.


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## AlexS

I understand it is not your responsibility, but you have 5 horses of your own, I would not imagine at this level of herd, it would cost too terribly much more to feed the other two back to health. 

Something needs to be done to help that mare.


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## lilkitty90

oh i promise that they are providing the food and she gets her 4 quarts, sometimes 8 a day. on top of the grass. and actually you wouldn't believe it, but she has improved.. sadly and the chesnut has greatly improved. here i'll post pictures from before they grew their winter coats.

this was snowflake when she was first in my care..
and the date is wrong. it was NOT in 2007. it was about september/october of 2010
and in this picture she was waiting to have her hooves trimmed up

















and these are of the chesnut horse this summer... when we forced to have them moved to the guy's pastured and paid the man 30$'s per horse for both of the horses to stay there for a month, and this was after 2-3 weeks of being at this pasture.. so they had already put on weight.

































































and they rode him while he was this skinny..
























i'll post snowflake next.


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## apachewhitesox

I feel bad for that boy being ridden not only when he is underweight but also with all those sores


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## lilkitty90

bah! edit! it was september/ october of 2009!!!! because sparta wasn't born till march 9th 2010! my bad! lol 
ok and here is snowflake.
























































































and once again... they RODE her in this condition..








and they can't even get the saddle and blanket on right..











this is a few months after sparta was born, before she got to bad. she got bad QUICK so he moved her asap


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## apachewhitesox

I bet they are sweet horses that wouldn't put up a fight either poor things. Just wondering what is with putting they're tails up like that it looks funny


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## lilkitty90

yeah apachie. he was pitiful. he's alot better weight wise and his sores are gone. but he's just such a bully with a rude personality. he will practically maul you for food.. (hmm i wonder why???)
and he's aggressive, he kicked my mom the other day. so bad that she just got in the car and left. and had to pull over and passed out and looked like she was siezing.. i was so scared he got her in the head or something. but she's fine. just a giant bruise on her thigh and one on her elbow. and his bone tail bone got her head. i called his owner and said that horse HAD to do. and he's still here.. he's dangerous.. what if it would have been the younger kids. mom's thigh WOULD have been their face. because they wouldn't be able to turn around as fast as her. it scares me.. it really does.


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## lilkitty90

i did that as an excuse to get pictures... i took those with a cell. and it would be suspicious taking picture of their butts and stuff for no reason. so we just made their tails and stuff up funny for pictures to be inconspicuous


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## apachewhitesox

Good excuse. That is sad that he is that bad there is no excuse for it but I'm not suprised


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## lilkitty90

yes, i love snowflake and red. but i hate them at the same time. though snowflake is the sweetest horse that probably ever walked with earth, and she doesn't deserve how she is being treated, so i honestly believe that she needs to be put out of her misery. because it's better than what she is now. or she needs to be given away. (which they wont do.. they probably wouldn't take less than 100-200$'s for them.) so that they can be properly loved and taken care of. red, he's wonderful sometimes and an absolutely witch others.. sometimes i get so angry that i just can't stand his guts and others he's just an absolute darling. maybe it's because our personalities don't mesh? but i really hope they find other homes and thats these people don't get anymore.


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## lilkitty90

sorry posted a photo twice. this was suposed to be the other one.


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## BrewCrew

Wow, what a lovely pasture! Those are some lucky horses; I hope they know it, lol! That's a great place.

Hard not to comment on the poor condition of the two....Just keep doing what you can; looks like they need you. :/

...not to be rude, but looks as though it's time for a trim?


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## lilkitty90

hehe brew crew i figured someone would mention it, and yup time for their trim next week. seems like the toesies grew out faster this month then they have been, but i assume thats cuz all the hair is falling out so the hooves grow more in the warmer weather than in the colder weather. plus we got a new farrier and i think he doesn't take as much off the end as usually, but at least he's doing the mustang roll! we finally found someone who does that!


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## Alwaysbehind

I am not sure why you proudly post photos of horses that look horrible.
You obviously feed that appy (since it is eating grain in those photos). Feed it more, get its teeth done, do something. Age is no excuse.
Just because you have at some point put weight on a horse does not make the condition of these horses (not just the appy) OK.




lilkitty90 said:


> ok so basically we finally fenced in a new pasture! not sure how many acres it is but it's about 3,000-3,500 feet along the fence line.


Basic math.
1 acre = 43,560sqft
3,000 x 3,000 = 9,000,000sqft
206.6 acres


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## lilkitty90

i'm proudly posting photos of my horses and my pasture. the appy does not belong to me. and yes i feed it. but i feed it the food they provide. and i can only feed it so much because then we get fussed at and accussed of feeding our horses their food because they run out to quickly.

whats wrong with the horses besides the appaloosa?
Charlie. i admit yes he's skinny. he is a rescue and still needs about 250 pounds. 
besides him i don't see anything wrong with any of the others except they are due for a trim.

and i'll be the first to admit i'm not good at math. and it's not 3,000 x 3,000
it's just 3,000 all around.


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## Alwaysbehind

Pretty much all the horses look like your deworming program is very lacking.


You posted a whole boatload of photos of just the skinny appy. Really you could have skipped those photos all together. It is not your horse and it looks horrible, so no reason to boast about it.

Me thinks you like the drama.


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## lilkitty90

me thinks you like drama. it always seems to follow you around. i posted a bunch of photos of the appy to make a point. if you read, not sure if you did.
which horses look like the are lacking worming? because they all get it. and it's always rotated. personally the worst one i see is my little yearling, sparta. and he gets a wormer once a month. and it's rotated between 3-4 different types.


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## Alwaysbehind

I read....

I know you post that you deworm. Your horses just do not look like you actually do it.


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## lilkitty90

so i lie about how i care for my horses?

honestly i think what youre seeing is a grass belly. this pasture is new and they've only been on it for about 2 weeks now.


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## Alwaysbehind

I did not say you were lying. If my horses looked that poorly on a deworming program I would be sitting down with my vet to figure out what else is not right.

It is not just the belly, it is the whole horse.


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## lilkitty90

which is why when sparta is being gelded, which is comming up this month. they are all going to be getting tubed wormed incase something it being missed with our wormers.

also how do you tell? i know the belly, but what else tells you? i'd like to learn for future purposes.


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## MIEventer

Here is a link for ya lilkitty:

Parasite Control


I love the first few shots - of the horses enjoying their new pasture, and the dogs, lol - they are adorable and looks like they are all having a hoot!

I'd throw out round bales too, just to give that added extra needed nutrition. My fellow is on pasture, with access to a round bale, which believe it or not, he eats right down.


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## corinowalk

Im sorry, I have a really hard time believing that animal control has been there, seen those horses in THAT condition and left without the animals. Those horses are in HORRIBLE shape. If you are paying $80/month for pasture for 5 horses, you are saving a HUGE amount of money. Buy some extra hay. Have the vet out. Do something. Those horses are SUFFERING. How can you stand by and watch them RIDE these horses?! How do you justify that? 

Just know that if it gets bad enough that they would want to confiscate those horses, there is a possibility of them taking your 'rescue' horse also.


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## lilkitty90

as stated animal control came. and they said our horses even charlie are fine and healthy. and that they are gonna keep watch on snowflake and red for the next year. to see if they loose weight. don't get me wrong, i'm against it and i think they SHOULD be confiscated. and they arn't my property so i can't do anything about them sadly as it is.

i will pass on the round bale idea to my mom, but my stepdad *ruler of the roost* says that with so much grass they don't need hay, or even grain. but me and my mom fought so that we can keep feeding the grain.

also cori. at the time of the pictures of them riding. we didn't have a lease for the land, so we couldn't stir up trouble with them having the ability to kick us off of the land with no where to move our horses.

but i have the officers name and number if you'd like to call and ask, or even report. because honestly i think the horses deserve better myself but theres not much i can do about it and AC isn't doing much either apparently.

and also again animal control wasn't called out for their weight.. it was for her being blind in one eye.. which they people we bought her from bought her like that 14 years ago. so who knows how or when she got it.


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## lilkitty90

also to make it worse. the AC officer is a horse owner and lover as well. he owns several arabians, which also worries me because he's quite a large guy. not necessarily in width but in height, he's very tall which automatically makes him weigh more for a little arabian. but who knows and thats none of my bussiness. but i do know it's about time for him to do a check up in the next week or 2. and if he doesn't call then we'll be calling him up ourselves.


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## MacabreMikolaj

Arabians are designed to easily carry full grown men, I wouldn't worry about it.

Glad they have such a nice big pasture now!

Sorry about the circumstances, I know it sucks. Nobody likes to see a horse suffering, but how far can you push our own wallet and finances before you say enough is enough? I think some people are being very judgmental, we ALL want to do what we can to ensure horses aren't suffering but it is NOBODY'S right to make this person feel guilty for not going bankrupt to save someone else's horses. I've been in that situation and it's a HORRIBLE place to be.

You'd be amazed, the Appy obviously looks old and as long as she has food and water, animal control usually won't do squat. People think it's so easy to get animal control involved, and it's a ridiculous pain in the ***. Animals usually have to die before anything is done due to the legal red tape. If animal control was called and saw the animals in the state of the riding pictures, yes, something should have been done. But in 99% of cases, if the animal has food, water and shelter, they won't/CAN'T confiscate even a blatantly emaciated animal.


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## corinowalk

You can feel free to PM me the name of the officer and the phone number. I will call and wont mention any names. Those horses need medical attention, not riding. Since you are unable to provide for them, AC should take over. Sorry to be so blunt but it is just inconceivable to me that those horses are in that condition with no medical attention.

Also to be perfectly clear, my statements aren't coming from a judgmental place. Those horses need help. That is a FACT and not an opinion. Age should be taken into consideration when assessing a horses weight status but being that underweight, more is going on than just an older horse.


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## Buckcherry

I think its terrible that you are putting pictures up of horses that look horrible and showing them off. and then making excuses as to why it is skinny. 
We have a 29 year old hanovarian at our barn and he's not skinny at all as a matter of fact he's a little over weight. 
If they have to fight for their food then you should separate them while they eat. 
Obviously you don't have the funds to take care of your horses properly.

And please explain why you would be riding that horse that is easily 200lbs underweight if not more.


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## Alwaysbehind

Buckcherry said:


> I think its terrible that you are putting pictures up of horses that look horrible and showing them off. and then making excuses as to why it is skinny.


Thank you. That was the point I was trying to make.


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## MacabreMikolaj

Buckcherry said:


> I think its terrible that you are putting pictures up of horses that look horrible and showing them off. and then making excuses as to why it is skinny.
> We have a 29 year old hanovarian at our barn and he's not skinny at all as a matter of fact he's a little over weight.
> If they have to fight for their food then you should separate them while they eat.
> Obviously you don't have the funds to take care of your horses properly.
> 
> And please explain why you would be riding that horse that is easily 200lbs underweight if not more.


THEY'RE NOT HER HORSES.

Good grief, do we have an illiteracy problem on this forum? She's already spent her OWN money trying to help these horses, and you can't even be bothered to read enough to NOT be ATTACKING her?

Srsly, for your sake, learn how to read before you make yourself look even more foolish and attempt to guilt trip even further someone who IS trying to help them.


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## Buckcherry

Lilkitty: obviously your parents need to cut down on the number of horses and put the extra funds towars the ones your keep its not about quantity its about quality. What I mean is the horses quality of life, which is obviously lacking in some aspects.


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## MacabreMikolaj

corinowalk - I agree, but how is this HER responsibility? What if she DOES pay for the medical bill? To have the vet tell her what they need and have the owners refuse to provide it anyway? How much money is she expected to spend, how many of her own horses does she have to sell because animal control won't step in?

I just think it's absolutely asinine to blame the OP for this. I would do everything I could to help these horses to, but a lot of us simply don't have unlimited bank accounts, or even remotely large ones.


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## Alwaysbehind

Macabre, there is no need to yell at us.

We know they are not her horses. Very much so. 

Does that explain away the need to post how many photos of a grossly underweight horse that obviously gets no care while bragging about their pasture?

This thread could have been made with out those photos, easily, then all we would have is a bunch of horses who are obviously wormy and a little lacking all around, not some grossly skinny uncared for older appy who gets a bunch of individual photos.


ETA - there are eight individual photos of that sickly looking appy. Eight of them. You can easily miss him in any of the group shots. If the OP did not want comments then the eight individual photos of the appy should have been left out of the post. They were put in just to make drama. Period. No purpose otherwise.

And her horses seem to desperately need their feet done along with some deworming. Those are her horses, so you can not yell at me about that.


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## lilkitty90

buckcherry if you'd be so kind as to read that she is NOT mine. and it's NOT me riding her. go back and read.

MIE thanks for the link! i'll check it when i'm home and show it to my mom as well! she'll probably happily take action to fix what may be wrong. it's just my stepdad is such a tightwad.

Macabre it is horrible i hate it, i hate inviting people over to ride with me, or bringing people over to see our horses. because then they think she's mine, and she's not. and it's hard to see her that way, and i'll pick cuckle burrs and stuff out of her fur and try to brush her which is hard due to her ribs and boniness and it really is just hard to be around and not be able to do anything.

thats also what animal control told me. but she was also not in as bad of condition as the riding pics at the time. plus it was winter and her puffy coarse hair made her look not as skinny. and he said that she clearly has food and water and shelter, just lacking the attention. which clearly she is. they also don't ride often or well really since those pictures which is GOOD. i think she needs to be retired do to her condition. i know if she had been treated right she could easily have been ridden at this age. but thats not the case.


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## MacabreMikolaj

I agree in some respects, no, we don't need these photos, but obvious progress HAS been made in comparison to the riding photos. I just don't understand how attacking the OP is helping whatsoever here. Perhaps she is not doing as much as you or I would do, but she obviously hasn't been sitting idly by and IS attempting to do her best and the chestnut looks a lot better by comparison.

Why can't we help her, instead of attacking her for someone ELSE'S enormous lack of responsibility?


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## Buckcherry

Only two of them aren't hers. 

Whats the excuse for the others?!?!?

Do your horses look this way? I would hope not and if they did I doubt you would post pictures of them being ridden


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## MacabreMikolaj

I wasn't "yelling" at you or corinowalk, AlwaysBehind. We'd already resolved the issue of them not being her horses when Buckcherry took it upon herself to waltz in, not read a thing and start accusing and pointing fingers again.

You pointing out the deworming and farrier work, perfect example of helpful!


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## Buckcherry

I'm sorry your being a bit rude i didnt say they were hers

Did you not read my last post I know they aren't hers. Exactly why she shouldnt be posting pictures of them

I don't care if i fit in, I don't know you and could care less what you think about me. BUt why don't you READ before being a total brat to me when I am looking out for the horses. Obviously you don't see that the horses that are her's don't look favorable either.


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## MacabreMikolaj

Buckcherry said:


> Only two of them aren't hers.
> 
> Whats the excuse for the others?!?!?
> 
> Do your horses look this way? I would hope not and if they did I doubt you would post pictures of them being ridden


I don't know, you tell us? Again, if you'd bothered to read, the bay TB is a RESCUE and is putting on weight. As for the rest of them? Aside from the feet needing to be done, they are all in good weight.

The ONLY riding photos she posted were the two that AREN'T hers.


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## lilkitty90

yes and with a link provided. and honestly buckcherry, just stop. stopp being offensive about my horses sure they arn't high dollar dressage horses and nor do i have the money to board at some schmancy stable where other people take care of my horses for me and i ride. (not saying you do either! i'm sure you take great care of your horses but accusing me of not when you don't KNOW our situation because you don't read, simply gives you no right to say they arn't well taken care of and loved. we just spent 900$'s of our money to get this new pasture built so they could have grass as well as hay AND grain. and it wasn't just for my horses benefit either. you see the other 2 in there as well. and did their owners help pay for the pasture? nope. and did their owners help set it up? nada. so i am doing what i can for them. and mine but i don't have a huge wallet loaded with 100's it takes time. but at least we get it done.

and also buck if your gonna say something is wrong with them. then i want you to list it. and how to fix it.


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## Buckcherry

I do believe that numerous people have said your horse look wormy and lacking in more than one.


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## AlexS

MM I don't agree with you. The Appy mare is in a terrible condition, I realize that the OP does not own the horse, but she is physically doing the feeding. And it is obviously not enough, the horse is starving. 



lilkitty90 said:


> the appy does not belong to me. and yes i feed it. but i feed it the food they provide. and i can only feed it so much because then we get fussed at and accussed of feeding our horses their food because they run out to quickly.


You are only paying $80 a month to board your five horses, if I were you I would buy extra feed for the appy. I could not stand by and watch an animal in that condition even if it is not yours. 

And the fact that you are ashamed to take friends there means that you know this. So step up and help this mare.


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## Alwaysbehind

How ashamed can she be about taking friends there if she is willing to post eight individual photos of the horse here?


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## MaggiStar

Whilst there not your horses and in some ways your hands are tied in others your not.
Buy beetpulp and oil and feed the appy on its own and just give her some loving it wont take that long.
Also when you get your vet out for yearly shots the call out fee wont change if he just assesses her and gives you some guide lines. there is loads of threads on here about weight gain maybe have a flick through to see what you can afford and do?
Also whilst your horses dont look like super show horses i think they look adequately cared for sure there feet could use a tidy up but there not horrificly long and they could do with a worm blast ye but apart from that i am not appaled at all.
If this was my situation i would
1 buy a large yard bottle of a panacur online (you can get a discount) and worm everybody. There is no poinbt in worming just your guys and not these as you are throwing away money. Then if you have no stables tape off a section of your paddock for a week and keep them in there whilst they are dispelling the worms and poo pick i also would clean the rest of the field whilst nobody is out there.
2 buy a large good quality round bale and leave it in the field so they can pick at it. The grass is not nutritious enough for weight gain yet so they do need more roughage.
3buy a big bottle of oil and a bag of beetpulp for the skinnies and feed them on there own once or twice a day. ideally if you could keep your fenced in paddock they will be seperate and you can go ride whilst there eating.
4depending on weather maybe throw an old rug on her just so she is using no additional energy to keep warm

please do keep us updated i want to see how they are getting on


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## lilkitty90

thanks maggi. thats the type of critism i like to hear. your being very constructive about it. and we do add some of the food we buy to hers. but like i said i would happily feed her more of her feed. but her owners get all ****y. we were buying hay and splitting our hay down the middle and giving them some of each. but they whined and wanted us to pay them back for the hey used to feed all of the horses while our hay was being used. they think their horses should get only half a bale each. a day to be able to gain weight. and that was when they were all dry lotted... -_- then we started feed them all our hay and theirs is still wasting away in the barn because we can't touch it. so we've been buying large round bales to feed them all. and boy hay isn't cheap. right now their horses are on a really nice senior feed. they just need MORE of it than 4 qrts a day. and we've told them that. beetpulp is lovely but we don't want to be at fault for their horse choking on it and dying and so it makes my mom nervous with the choke hazard. because then we could be sued for killing their horse. they were getting wight supplements and corn oil and everything else.and were gaining weight again but then the owners slacked back off,

so we are gonna help but beetpulp is also about 20-25 dollars a bag, which is why we can't afford it. they will go through it so quickly. we can't even afford to feed our own horses that much. and everything we use to feed their horses is less we can use for ours. we got the 80 a month because she knows we can't afford it but she likes to help us while we help her. we buy our food in bulk, it's about 1,000-1,500 pounds every month and a half. and it's only 125$'s

it's not really cold enough for a rug here, she just takes a long time to loose her winter fur = / instead of the panacur we are doing tube worming. where the vet comes and gives them each of the different types of worms at once and uses a tube to go straight to their stomaches to make sure that they get it.

also while we are discussing my horses health issues. since they are in this huge pasture will it be safe or should we be worrying about founder now with april comming around?


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## AlexS

So if your board is $80 per month, and your feed is $125 for 6 weeks, you are paying about $160 per month for 5 horses. If this is a struggle for you and your family, you need to downsize as this is incredibly affordable. 

I see ZERO excuse or reasoning here for a starving horse. While I realize this is not your horse, it is starving and you are the person feeding it even if you are not responsible for it. 

Please to echo Cori, please send me your location and I will call animal control myself. I will not look at photos of a dying horse and listen to excuses.


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## Buckcherry

> While I realize this is not your horse, it is starving and you are the person feeding it even if you are not responsible for it.


This was my point...

Also alfalfa cubes are pretty cheap $15 a bag. also Oats are really cheap as well. About $9.00 for 50 lbs Just make sure you soak the alfalfa cubes for a while before you feed them. 
If you can't afford to feed him extra i would do all i can to see if animal control will step in. I would keep calling and see if i could get others to call. Or maybe if there is a rescue that would be able to step in. I know your probably friends with these people but it is in the best interest of the horses.


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## AlexS

Buckcherry said:


> This was my point...


We are on the same page Buckcherry. 

I would imagine that the OP could be charged with some kind of neglect herself for the condition of this mare, knowing that no one is doing anything to help it.


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## MacabreMikolaj

OP, maybe it would be best if you just gave these nice members your address so THEY can start sending you money to feed this mare.

How about it folks?? Instead of personally attacking the OP, how about you put your money where your mouth is and HELP this mare then? 

Or is it easier to point fingers, accuse and judge from behind your computer?


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## jdw

HOLY COW!!! I suppose its the one you are calling an app (saw no spots on its rear) and I know she's old~but gracious! Around here that's considered second degree starvation. I know she is not yours, but she looks TERRIBLE!!! She could not feel good, either. The other one they own doesn't look too good, either but this one has the swollen looking stomach while everything else is caved in. I didnt notice where you live, but I cannot believe animal control would not DO something then and there!! Thank God you are feeding them; how would these people love to be STARVED??? sheesh............


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## MacabreMikolaj

Again, I REALLY don't think most people understand the purpose, obligation or legal right of animal control. In MOST cases, they will not/cannot confiscate an animal that HAS food or water, regardless of the condition of the animal. They can make recommendations, but in most cases they have NO plausible proof why the animal is in this state - she could be old, she could be sick, she could be a rescue, etc.

Animal control does not have the legal right, nor the FINANCIAL ability to simply confiscate every single emaciated animal they see. It's a crying SHAME but welcome to the real world. It happens time and TIME again where people are calling relentlessly and it takes YEARS to have something done and we're taking EXTREME cases - in most cases, death of animals has to occur before they will step in.

In most jurisdictions, they wouldn't even consider confiscating an animal in this mares condition when she has food and water in front of her. They don't have the resources to be confiscating animals who are being "cared" for by the most remote standards.

Do I agree with it? Absolutely not. But blaming the OP for this entire situation is beyond harsh. Yes she could do more, but she is NOT the devil here, these horrid disgusting vermin owners are. 

We had to watch a 32 year old mare starve to death because she was so old and rickety, she simply couldn't eat enough to nourish herself and the owner REFUSED to put her down. Despite decent care, this mare like 10x worse then the Appy mare and we could do NOTHING - we TRIED calling animal control, tried having her ordered to put the mare to sleep and NOTHING could be done because she was feeding this mare.

I really think people have a LOT to learn about how the system works before they accuse other people of "not doing enough".


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## lilkitty90

thank you macabre. it's nice to have at least someone believing the same way i do and putting a little effort to stand up for the same thing. i'm tired of posting and constantly being put down. it's shameful and makes me regret ever joining. but i just love the knowledge of all you horse people who've owned horses longer then i've been alive. i've only had my first horse on december 22, 2008. i had never ridden before that, nor had i ever read up on horsecare. yes it was the wrong way to go about things. but being the responsible child i am i've speant years constantly learning about horses and their care and i find this forum is a great way to do so.

and for anyone else. i hope you guys are honest enough not to try to pin the blame on me like you are doing so here. and not to get my horses taken. as stated. animal control HAS been here and said that WE are in NO fault. we are feeding theirm are as we've been directed. doing otherwise would be against the law, and if she died because of that we could be blamed. and AC has told us this themselves.

also as MM has stated. if you'd like to donate i'm open to money. and i'll gladly give you my address and go buy her food.

she's had supplements, and we used to feed Alfalfa which really had no effect at all. we blistered up and splintered our hands breaking up those darned cubes so it would be easier to soak and for them to eat. and they didn't even like it. the only oats i've really seen around here are Steam Crimped oats which was about 15 dollars for a 15 pound bag.

and use the AC wisely. even though it's not much of a threat, if you report or tell them something out of line i WILL be ****ed. AC has been here and checked everything, and maybe they'll let you know if you call and ask if they have been here, the horses pasture is on a road called Random lane. ask if they've had any reports of a horse down there.

also she is an appaloosa, she's a varnish roan. and she does have spots just not with her winter coat. i believe i posted a previous picture of when she was fat and sassy and very much so pregnant.


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## AlexS

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Do I agree with it? Absolutely not. But blaming the OP for this entire situation is beyond harsh. Yes she could do more, but she is NOT the devil here, these horrid disgusting vermin owners are.


I am not blaming the OP, I realize it is not her horse, but throwing your (you MM) hands up in the air and saying nothing can be done is not the answer either. 

OP you have a pm.


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## lacyloo

I'm kinda on the fence... Yes the horse(s) need help but I do not think it is the OP's job to do that. *I would not pay out of my pocket to clean up someone else's mess.* I doubt animal control is doing a darn thing about these horses. They have food/water, most areas- thats all that is required. I would simply move my horses far, far away from that place! And make dang sure that animal control is aware of these horses and the conditions they are in. 

To the OP- Is there any way you could purchase this horse(s)?


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## apachiedragon

I am not getting into the dispute on this thread except to touch on the AC issue, as I live in NC also. (I think everything else that needs to be said has been said, and said well.) 

AC in NC will do next to nothing to remove a horse if there is any way in the world they can avoid it. Which unfortunately leaves many in a very bad way. A part of the reason is they are not set up to take horses, or large animals of any kind, and our couple of tiny rescues are grotesquely overflowing and fostered far and wide, so they are no help at all. Another major reason they will not take a horse unless there is no other option is because a few years back, in Forsyth County, where I live, AC confiscated 25 horses and other animals from a lady, and she sued the county, and won, because they did not follow protocol and have a vet come out at the time of seizure with them. Even though several of the horses looked like that appy, AC was charged with trespassing, breaking and entering (as they took dogs from inside the residence) and a couple other charges as well. It was settled, and she got every one of those animals back, and now AC is afraid to breathe wrong around here, and are essentially useless. It's a horrible thing, but that's just the way it is.


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## Alwaysbehind

lilkitty90 said:


> thanks maggi. thats the type of critism i like to hear. your being very constructive about it.


I have given you detailed answers about deworming and feet in the past. It has obviously been ignored. :wink:



lilkitty90 said:


> t
> so we are gonna help but beetpulp is also about 20-25 dollars a bag, which is why we can't afford it. they will go through it so quickly. we can't even afford to feed our own horses that much. and everything we use to feed their horses is less we can use for ours. we got the 80 a month because she knows we can't afford it but she likes to help us while we help her. we buy our food in bulk, it's about 1,000-1,500 pounds every month and a half. and it's only 125$'s


Have you actually priced beet pulp? Or are you just assuming it is that price? Of all the grain products I buy it is the cheapest. Certainly not $25 a bag.

Maybe the lack of quality that is the way cheap crap you are feeding your horses is adding to their failure to thrive look.









jdw said:


> HOLY COW!!! I suppose its the one you are calling an app (saw no spots on its rear) and I know she's old~but gracious!


Apps comes in all kinds of coat patterns.




AlexS said:


> I am not blaming the OP, I realize it is not her horse, but throwing your (you MM) hands up in the air and saying nothing can be done is not the answer either.


I am blaming the OP for posting photos of a scary skinny horse on purpose just to get people riled so she can then proclaim 'it is not mine there is nothing that can be done about it, you people are all mean'.


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## Buckcherry

> How about it folks?? Instead of personally attacking the OP, how about you put your money where your mouth is and HELP this mare then?


I would definatly help the mare out if she was at the place I board and have done similar things in the past. 

I realize that lilkitty it's not your horse, Maybe you could try talking to the local rescues around and seeing if they can help out in any way. I know it's probably a long shot but it's worth a shot.


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## Speed Racer

lilkitty90 said:


> the only oats i've really seen around here are Steam Crimped oats which was about 15 dollars for a 15 pound bag.


I'm not sure why your prices would be so high for crimped oats and beet pulp since I'm in south central VA, which isn't that far from the NC border.

$15.00 for a _50_ lb. bag of crimped oats is pretty much the norm around here, not $1.00 per pound. I pay about $12.00 for a 50 lb. bag of beet pulp, which is certainly nowhere near the $25.00 per bag you're claiming.

Find a TSC or Southern States. You're obviously using a small, local feed store if you're paying that much for what is essentially the cheapest food per pound.

I think that Appy mare first and foremost needs to see a vet to determine just what's wrong with her. She obviously has a heavy worm load, as do all the others, but she's probably long overdue for a floating, which of course could contribute to her not thriving.

I understand that these are not your animals, but you should have known you'd catch heck for posting photos of wretched looking horses who are in with your own. Personally, if they were in with mine, I'd make sure they were fed and cared for properly. But then, I'm a sucker and a sap who can't stand to see an animal suffer, especially if they're right in front of my face, day in and day out.


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## apachiedragon

Buckcherry, unfortunately there are two rescues (and a third that calls itself that but isn't) and they are all full to the gills and desperately begging for help to care for the ones they already have, due to rising expenses and nobody adopting. 

I agree someone needs to step in and do something for these horses, I'm just afraid it would have to be someone doing a personal "rescue" for it to happen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Alwaysbehind

apachiedragon said:


> I'm just afraid it would have to be someone doing a personal "rescue" for it to happen.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would think that if someone was getting board that crazy cheap for their own animals they might be willing to help out a horse that is owned by the person giving them crazy cheap board.


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## apachiedragon

Yep, you would think, AB. But it sounds like they can barely afford all the ones that ARE theirs. I shudder to think what would happen if they actually had to pay a normal boarding fee on even one of them, if they can't afford a few extra bags of feed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lilkitty90

i'm not paying the people that keep their horses here for board, and if i was i'd think they should be able to take care of their horse. i'm paying a little old lady that lives out in the middle of the property, who is their grandmother who they also don't help take care of properly, instead we take care of her, and she's like a grandmother to us.

we priced that at TSC except the steam crimped oats were priced at the local feed and tack shop, though my mom doesn't wanna feed the beet pulp because of the choke issue and she doesn't want THEIR horse to choke and be blamed on US for killing it.


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## Poseidon

I have a question completely unrelated to the Appy problem and I'm not trying to fuel the fire, I'm genuinely just curious. (Don't take this in a rude way)

Why did you want to keep Sparta a stallion, only to later say this at the beginning of this thread? "_aww poor little guy.. i think he has like the worst conformation EVER._"


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## lilkitty90

poseidon, mainly because with all his winter fur it's hard to tell his conformation. i really couldn't see how bad it was, also because i am biased to my little guy and when your biased you can look by quite a bit. and now with it shedding off i can tell he really is NOT even remotely stallion worthy which is why the vet is comming to geld this month for sure.


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## lilkitty90

and also because all i really noticed wrong with them before, was long pasterns, and a little cow hocked, which obviously it's more then that, so what i was going for was that if he was decent enough at showing, and the mares were picked right it would not be a problem, though thats clearly not the case.


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## Speed Racer

lilkitty90 said:


> we priced that at TSC except the steam crimped oats were priced at the local feed and tack shop, though my mom doesn't wanna feed the beet pulp because of the choke issue and she doesn't want THEIR horse to choke and be blamed on US for killing it.


Beet pulp also comes in pellets, not just shreds. Those can generally be fed like any dry pelleted food. Unless a horse is_ prone_ to choke, there's no reason to think beet pulp pellets are worse than any other kind of feed.

I'm surprised that the TSC in your area charges $25.00 a bag for beet pulp, since everywhere else I've priced it it's been about the same, including Northern VA, which is a _very_ high priced area. :?


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## Alwaysbehind

SR, I have bought beet pulp at Tractor Supply in over priced NY and it does not cost any where near as much as the OP is saying.
They also have it in both pellet and shred form.



So you pay squat for board and you are saying that if you paid that amount to the owner of this poor horse the horse would be properly taken care of.
You are basically saying it would not cost much at all to take care of this horse. I do not get why you just do not do it.


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## lilkitty90

SR i may have priced the wrong thing but i believe thats what i was looking at when i seen the price of $25.00

and i never said taking care of a horse was cheap. but i'm saying those arn't the people we are paying and if it was then the 80$ would HELP pay for the horse but clearly we arn't paying them. it's the elderly lady we are paying, these people will be the owners of the land when this lady passes away though, and they will probably sell the land off. the lady was offered 3 million for all 60 acres to develope the land, she turned them down and instead wanted the 80$ a month to keep the land used. once our 10 years are up though, the kids will probably kick us off and then sale the land for development.


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## lilkitty90

also Always, *I* don't have a job. *I* don't have a license. and *I* don't have a car. my mom can't make all the decisions because most of our income comes from my stepdad who could careless about horses and thinks he knows it all. he doesn't like getting the vet out, and he doesn't think hooves need to be trimmed as often as they do, and he doesn't think they need hay or grain while on grass. we're fighting tooth and nail but we can't do everything. and he also thinks the *cheap* food is just as good as the non cheap. so we have no choice. it's his say. and while me and my mother would love to spend our money on good food, and mix it daily and blister our hands on alfalfa and bust our bums to get our horses as good as possible, my stepdad doesn't let us.


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## lacyloo

That mare needs alittle more than just a few "quarts of sweetfeed". C'mon guys, bumping up grain isn't the best way to go about fattening up a horse. She needs to see a vet and quite frankly, its not the OP's families job to do that. 

Would YOU care for horses that weren't yours? Should she also take upon the responsibility's for farrier work, teeth floating, _basic horse care_?!?!


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## apachiedragon

Actually I have, lacyloo. We had a horse pasture boarded (he was the only pasture boarder, so was left alone every night and literally had a come-apart being alone) at the farm we had ours at, and the owner came out one day a month to pay board, and never even looked at the horse, and then just quit coming at all, just mailed a board check. And we paid for all farrier, vet, feed and all other bills, and put him in with ours every night, just because we couldn't stand to see him that way. And he was never in THAT bad of condition. We picked up his care before he got that bad. He ended up becoming ours when the barn close down, but that was after a full year of paying all his bills, and with no intention of ending up with the horse for it. It's called compassion...


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## lilkitty90

but apachie. you were being paid for that weren't you? he was paying YOU board. right?

i shouldn't be paying THEIR Grandmother board, AND paying for THEIR horse. i could see caring for their horse if they were paying me to do so.


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## apachiedragon

No we weren't. We were boarders there as well, and we never saw one red cent.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## apachiedragon

And at $80 a month for 5 horses, I would still consider it a bargain even IF I had to care for their horse. Anywhere else, that wouldn't be board for even 1.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Poseidon

I pay $80 in board for ONE horse and that's AFTER I clean stalls and do barn chores every Saturday and Sunday morning. That's just board though. I also just dropped almost $400 on a vet bill and then a separate $85 on supplements for the summer. I would kill to pay that much for 5 horses.


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## lilkitty90

it's a lease though not a board, we had to do ALL of the fence work for every pasture, we have to do all of the land work, we have to do all of the barn chores, all of the scraping and fertilizing and like i said we just spent 900$ on 1 pasture. not to mention the 500 on the other pasture not to long ago. along with 150-200$ every month and a half on their feet, and 125$ every month and a half on feed. and round bales at 25$ a piece and 80$ a month. plus with a family of 5, and other pets we have to take care of. not to mention our 300$ vet visit for our cat. and our other 150$ vet visit for our other cat just last month.


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## NdAppy

Your still boarding. Your paying to "board" your horses in their pasture. Part of your "board" is making it livable for your horses.


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## Alwaysbehind

lilkitty90 said:


> also Always, *I* don't have a job. *I* don't have a license. and *I* don't have a car. my mom can't make all the decisions because most of our income comes from my stepdad who could careless about horses and thinks he knows it all. he doesn't like getting the vet out, and he doesn't think hooves need to be trimmed as often as they do, and he doesn't think they need hay or grain while on grass. we're fighting tooth and nail but we can't do everything. and he also thinks the *cheap* food is just as good as the non cheap. so we have no choice. it's his say. and while me and my mother would love to spend our money on good food, and mix it daily and blister our hands on alfalfa and bust our bums to get our horses as good as possible, my stepdad doesn't let us.


Ya know what.... I am sorry that your step dad does not bend over backwards for you. 
If this was my situation, I would then say, "I am not going to leave my horses neglected just so I can have them" and I would find them new homes where they could be properly cared for.
It is nice to point fingers and blame your step father for their lack of care, etc. I might feel sympathetic if you were not always getting new horses, etc
Your horses did not ask to be owned by people who refuse to take proper care of them. 
Period.


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## Buckcherry

> it's a lease though not a board, we had to do ALL of the fence work for every pasture, we have to do all of the land work, we have to do all of the barn chores, all of the scraping and fertilizing and like i said we just spent 900$ on 1 pasture. not to mention the 500 on the other pasture not to long ago. along with 150-200$ every month and a half on their feet, and 125$ every month and a half on feed. and round bales at 25$ a piece and 80$ a month. plus with a family of 5, and other pets we have to take care of. not to mention our 300$ vet visit for our cat. and our other 150$ vet visit for our other cat just last month.


All parts of owning animals. We all go through the same types of bills for our horses and other animals. 
If it's such a burden on your stepdads pocket book then why do you have horses? It's kind of selfish to expect him to spend all of his money on animals. 

I agree with AB they would be better suited with other homes. Just because you can have horses doesn't mean you should have horses.


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## apachiedragon

Buckcherry said:


> Just because you can have horses doesn't mean you should have horses.


Very true statement.


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## lilkitty90

so i told mom about what i read in MIE's link. and i told her i wanted to go around the pasture and pick up all the poo, and she just said "have fun with that" so i guess i'm on my own here. and since tube worming cost about 25$'s a horse and i make 50$'s every 2 weeks, i guess i can get my 2 done, and maybe that will motivate my mom to get her horses done. or at least i can only hope.


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## Alwaysbehind

lilkitty90 said:


> so i told mom about what i read in MIE's link. and i told her i wanted to go around the pasture and pick up all the poo, and she just said "have fun with that" so i guess i'm on my own here. and since tube worming cost about 25$'s a horse and i make 50$'s every 2 weeks, i guess i can get my 2 done, and maybe that will motivate my mom to get her horses done. or at least i can only hope.


Almost no one has the vet tube deworm anymore. 

I am not sure why you are proclaiming that is what is necessary.


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## lilkitty90

because it would just be easier to get them dewormed for all the worms at once than to buy several different tubes, that i can't even give all at once, and it will help elminate the worms faster, or at least that was the impression i got, am i wrong?


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## Alwaysbehind

How do you know what worms you are trying to get rid of? Have you done fecals?


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## lilkitty90

nope, but again i was also under the impression that a tube worming was a dose to expel ALL of the most common worms at one time.


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## Speed Racer

Most vets won't do tube worming any more. Too much risk. They're all recommending the Panacur Powerpacs nowadays.


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## lilkitty90

hmm, could i possibly find panacur at TSC or would i have to order it offline like before? though if it's over 20 some dollars i bet my mom wont go for it so i'll have to wait until i can get my checking account open and then i'd pay for it.


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## HopalongCassidy

Well.... I've read the whole thing. And i came to a conclusion......

OP, Call animal control and get the red haltered horse and that appy off that place immediately! 

See what I've read your trying your best to take care of them when you're having trouble taking care of your own. (or that's what it looks like.) There can't be think first act later when it comes to taking care of a horse in need. You've got to act upon it like it was your own child in need (that is if you love your horses) So saying that it's almost like AlwaysBehind said get them a new home. Also show the pictures you got of them neglecting there horse. (The pictures with them riding the horses skinny and with sores) I think that will be enough to get them horse taken away from them. If not the animal control isn't doing there job. Also all they have to do is look at the horses. 

Best of luck, Bye.


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## lilkitty90

scratch that i found it. it's 14.99 at TSC for a single dose, and i only have 40 dollars to my name so i could only afford 2. one for each of my horses.


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## MacabreMikolaj

Have you considered selling some of your horses lilkitty? I know it's a rough subject and nobody likes to think about it, but it does seem like unfortunately you guys are struggling a bit to care for your group. I recently hit that situation and had to either sell Jynx or find a cheaper place to board - thankfully I managed to find a cheaper place to board that I think will work even better then the last place.

I'm an adult and I make good money and I couldn't imagine keeping up with the costs of 5 horses, even if I owned the land! What are you going to do if your stepdad gets fed up and refuses to keep paying for them?


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## lilkitty90

honestly not sure, the only one my family would consider selling is Charlie, but we really arn't supsoed to as the previous owners said that if we decided we didn't want him to tell them and they'll came pick him back up, not sure if it would still be right to sell him

on the off hand i spent an hour shoveling crap from the field by myself... and i don't think i even but a dent in it... there HAS to be a better way..


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## JustDressageIt

Alwaysbehind said:


> Ya know what.... I am sorry that your step dad does not bend over backwards for you.
> If this was my situation, I would then say, "I am not going to leave my horses neglected just so I can have them" and I would find them new homes where they could be properly cared for.
> It is nice to point fingers and blame your step father for their lack of care, etc. I might feel sympathetic if you were not always getting new horses, etc
> Your horses did not ask to be owned by people who refuse to take proper care of them.
> Period.


Absolutely 100% agree. If you cannot provide basic care and veterinary care, you should not have the horse. Period. Doesn't matter if you're fighting tooth and nail to convince Jim the horses need more than they get - if they aren't getting the care they need, they need new homes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lacyloo

lilkitty90 said:


> honestly not sure, the only one my family would consider selling is Charlie, but we really arn't supsoed to as the previous owners said that if we decided we didn't want him to tell them and they'll came pick him back up, not sure if it would still be right to sell him
> 
> on the off hand i spent an hour shoveling crap from the field by myself... and i don't think i even but a dent in it... there HAS to be a better way..


Call them up and see if they will take him now. 

Whats the reason behind picking up the crud?


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## lilkitty90

who said they weren't getting veterinary care? sparta is getting gelded. and i was going to get the horses tube wormed.. but apparently panacur is better so we're going with that.. how's that not veterinary care?


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## lilkitty90

lacyloo i was reading the link MIE gave me and it said for horses that are wormy, cleaning the field twice a week.. which it going to take forEVER with a field this size.. will help keep the worms down which will help when i get the panacur.


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## lacyloo

lilkitty90 said:


> lacyloo i was reading the link MIE gave me and it said for horses that are wormy, cleaning the field twice a week.. which it going to take forEVER with a field this size.. will help keep the worms down which will help when i get the panacur.


 Oh okay, Well maybe you could try to sell the crud to gardeners? :lol:


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## lilkitty90

ahaha thats a good idea, just gonna take awhile for me to get it all up, and with 7 horses pooing everywhere it's not gonna get done to quickly lol wish we were allowed motorized vehicles, then i'd scrape with with a heavy log and a 4-wheeler, would be MUCH more simple.


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## JustDressageIt

You said you are fighting to get farrier work done, which is basic care. You said he doesn't believe in providing hay to them while out on pasture - if there isn't enough grass, they need to be supplemented with hay. Worming is basic care that needs to be done as needed. All of this seems to be a struggle to get done, when it is basic primary horse care. 
I admire you wanting to help and get them worked, but that's the tip of the iceberg. Good luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lilkitty90

oh no, they get farrier care, he just thinks it shouldn't be done as often as it gets done, and while they were dry lotted they ALWAYS had round bales and such to eat. he just said while they were on the new grassy pasture that he didn't think they needed hay. and they DO get wormed. but apparently all the poo in the pasture after being wormed is just giving them the worms right back, hence my cleaning. 

sparta was beign wormed every month as a foal should and the others were beign wormed every 4 months which is why i am so suprised that they look wormy to everyone.


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## JustDressageIt

Being wormed every four months won't do a thing. 
1) by older thinking, horses should be wormed every 8-12 weeks. 
2) even that seemed ineffective, so it's now recommended to do fecal exams and worm purely based on the findings of the fecal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lilkitty90

how often would you have the fecal done? and really? i was reading up on it and it said a decent worming schedule was twice a year but the more the better, which is why i was doing every 4 months! i guess you learn something new every day.


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## MacabreMikolaj

Our horses are dewormed three times a year (April, July, October) with Pyrantel Pamoate, Ivermection and Moxidectin in rotation and have never looked wormy. That is standard around here, except for major barns where the horses are kept in tiny paddocks where it's every 8 weeks. Nobody does fecal counts.

A proper worming rotational program of every 4 months shouldn't have the horses looking like that, for most of my life we only wormed twice a year with only Ivermectin because my grandpa didn't know any better and it always worked - the bigger the pasture, the less of a concern of infestation due to not eating by/on the manure.

I would speak to your vet when he comes to do Sparta. Exactly what have you been deworming with? Have you been weighing them so you know to give them the correct amount?


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## JustDressageIt

Twice a year would be even more harmful than good - a lot of worms can build up in the gut, and when a large number die due to worming, it can cause impaction colic. 
You will find all sorts of information out there - some people believe that diatomous mineral is a good worming alternative as it's a sharp, silt-based mineral that can cut up and do harm to the worms. While it may kill some, it won't get them all. You will find some people believe horses' feet only need to be done twice a year, or that they don't need to be done in the winter or when the horse isn't being ridden - we know that is completely false of course. 
Lots of information and misinformation out there. Your best bet when dealing with health issues, period, is to consult with a vet that keeps up-to-date on information. Some vets won't continue their education past their DVM degree, and their information may get outdated - quickly, in today's day and age. Of course they still have valuable information, but some might be outdated. Others keep up on their education, and they know what's what.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lilkitty90

i've used a Safeguard Dewormer on sparta i believe it was a Fenbendazole,
i've used an Anethelcide
i've also used Ivermectin of course
and i've used a Pyrantel Paste

and have been rotating between those through the last 6 months, giving him a different one every month.


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## MacabreMikolaj

Unless you're multiplying your doses of Pyrantel, nothing in there kills tapeworms. Moxidectin does that, though you do have to be careful administering it to young, old and sickly horses as a wrong dosage can be fatal.

Again, I would talk to your vet, there doesn't seem to be a good reason why they look wormy. I knew someone else who had horses who looked similar and said they dewormed regularly, so I'm not sure what it is. I know fecals are the PROPER way, but 90% of equestrians in my area deworm the same rotational way and never have a wormy looking horse.


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## MacabreMikolaj

Merp, sorry, I meant Quest Plus which is moxidection + praziquental which is what kills tapeworms. I always call it moxidection because it's easier, LOL.


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## lilkitty90

i'll look into that when we go to TSC, do you also suggest panacur as well? and do you know if it kills tapeworms?

and also when the vet comes for sparta's gelding do you suggest we get a fecal of each of them or would just one sample do it considering they share a field?


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## JustDressageIt

Do a fecal on all of them, and dose accordingly. Not all of them will have the same concentration or species. 
MM, unless you had fecals done, you don't know if your program works or not. They may not look wormy, but that doesn't mean they don't have worms, even a heavy load might not show. Just want to make sure that someone doesn't think "oh, 4 times a year worked for MM, it must be universal."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AlexS

Lilkitty, fecals are in the $20 range. It's not expensive and that way you find out exactly how to treat and what is going on.


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## Buckcherry

Our vet here in Maryland recommends fecals twice a year and worming twice a year. I've been told by vets that we are worming too much when it's not needed and it's better to let the horses get rid of some of the worms themselves. Because then they don't get immune to the de-wormers. 

My horses haven't had worms for the past few fecals.. So they must be on to something. 

I do have one question can you test for tapeworms?


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## AlexS

Buck, my vet in England used to tell me the same thing. I wormed when I needed to, but I did bi monthly fecals. If it was not needed, I still did it twice a year. 


Lilkitty, if you cannot afford wormer for 5 horses, then you cannot afford 5 horses. Period.


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## lilkitty90

i never said i couldn't afford 5 wormers, as i said we have been worming every 4 months, because thats what we thought was right. are you asking me if i can test for tapeworm? because if we get the fecal done then they should be able to test for tapeworm shouldn't they?


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## lilkitty90

mom has agreed that it might be in our best interests tel sell charlie, so if anyone is remotely interested let me know, he wont be really expensive, do to he's still have weight put on him and trying to get his hooves back in order. and i know all you guys will take good care of him!


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## kitten_Val

AlexS said:


> Lilkitty, fecals are in the $20 range. It's not expensive and that way you find out exactly how to treat and what is going on.


Just have to add... If you use Marion duPont Scott Equine Medical Center they charge $7.50/horse for the count. I just did it in Feb (sent it in with priority mail). Kitty, if you decide on it give them a call and they explain you the whole procedure and prices.

In ANY case you have to deworm at least once/year from tapeworms. I use http://www.smartpakequine.com/ProductClass.aspx?productclassid=1661&cm_vc=Search (they have free shipping too!).


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## ptvintage

lilkitty90 said:


> honestly not sure, the only one my family would consider selling is Charlie, but we really arn't supsoed to as the previous owners said that if we decided we didn't want him to tell them and they'll came pick him back up, not sure if it would still be right to sell him





lilkitty90 said:


> mom has agreed that it might be in our best interests tel sell charlie, so if anyone is remotely interested let me know, he wont be really expensive, do to he's still have weight put on him and trying to get his hooves back in order. and i know all you guys will take good care of him!


I think you should honor your agreement and contact his old owners to ask if they want him back. 

I hope everything works out.


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## JustDressageIt

lilkitty90 said:


> mom has agreed that it might be in our best interests tel sell charlie, so if anyone is remotely interested let me know, he wont be really expensive, do to he's still have weight put on him and trying to get his hooves back in order. and i know all you guys will take good care of him!


Please tell the previous owner first - you said that they may want him back. If they have right of first refusal and you sell him without asking her first, she may have a legal leg to stand on. Even giving a horse away will save you $ right away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lilkitty90

definitely, we're going to look for her number but now that she has her new horse i doubt she'll want him back

the reason she got him was to rescue him because he was being starved at a barn, she had him for 3 weeks and put 250 pounds on him. but she was only paying for one stall, and he had to leave her property that day, because the next day her 25,000$ show horse was arriving and she needed the stable. so she gave him over to us, if she didn't want to pay for 2 stalls then i doubt she'll want to pay for 2 stalls now but i'll give her a call anyway, though we've tried calling her a few times for his papers and she never picked up, it's still worth a try though.


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## AlexS

lilkitty90 said:


> i never said i couldn't afford 5 wormers,


Yes you did, you said you had $40 to your name and so could only afford to buy two wormers.


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## Buckcherry

I'm just curious, if fecals, hay, extra feed and basic necessities for horses are to expensive how do you and your family afford to have 4 horses teeth floated. And how are you affording to have sparta gelded. 

Seems to me I would find new homes for the rescue (which I see you are considering) and sparta(because that gelding fee could go else where) and focus your funds on the two horses which you would have left. Because in my opinion you can improve the quality of life for those two horses if you cut down the numbers. That would be half the feed, farrier, vet and hay bills. 

I realize you love your horses and probably have good intentions, but you need to realize having four horses might be too much of a burden on you and your families budget. And the only ones getting the short end of the stick are the horses.


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## lilkitty90

it's 5 horses, and the gelding is comming from my mom's check. i just mean that me, myself has 40 dollars and since mom doesn't want to do all the fecals and stuff with her money then i'll do it with mine, she happily does the others but again she finds this unneccessary, which is why i'm hoping if i get the fecals and wormers for my horses she'll do the same for the others. i get paid 120$ a month, and thats enough for the extra's that mom doesn't want to pay for on my horses.


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## AlexS

Lilkitty, you have endless excuses, you are responsible for these horses, and you need to be insisting to the people who are paying for them. It's just not good enough.


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## lilkitty90

ok guys, as an update!

today the AC officer called my mother and has set up an appointment to come out tomarrow around 3-4:30, i'll update with what he says when i get back from that

also i am getting ready to call the vet's office and set up the appointment for sparta's gelding (probably going to have to seperate him atm from the mares until that date because he's definitely acting studdy.. no mounting yet but he's chasing them around and biting at their withers.. and thats NOT typical behavior) SO on that i am also going to ask his price for fecals and probably get that done as well. i also told snowflake's owner that i was going to have her looked at as well to see what the deal is with her. (that is if AC hasn't took her by then) so we'll see what happens!


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## AlexS

I wanted to say that about your colt and his age, but you had enough going on with the starving mare. 

I trust that the mare will be there and so AC can see the horse. Can you be there with the pics and info?


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## lilkitty90

pics probably not, i have no way to print them out, but they already know, it's the same officer that has been comming out.

and what about sparta?


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## lilkitty90

oh nvm you mean seperating him from the herd because of the whole gelding thing! lol i got it.

and snowflake WILL be there. we told the owners that the AC officer was comming again. and the AC officer has been working with us and calling us and such instead of them so that there is no way that they can hide her and stuff. so she will be seen.


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## AlexS

Let us know how it goes.


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## lilkitty90

ok so the vet appointment is set up on Friday the 15th, going to have sparta gelded and all of the horses are getting a fecal! yay!

AC came. and he said yes they are in bad condition. but they ARE better then they were from the pictures..  so for now, nothing different on that front. and he did recieve the pictures and he printed them off and brought them to me and showed me them and asked me about it and all.


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## AlexS

What was the officers name that came out?


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## AlexS

There is something that does not make sense, how did the officer know which phone number to call?


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## lilkitty90

because like i said, he's been out before. it was the same officer that's been comming out. i really don't know his first name though, but i know his last.


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## Buckcherry

Obviously that officer doesn't know anything about body condition. I agree something seems fishy. 
I am glad that u are getting Sparta gelded and having them checked for worms


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## apachiedragon

I know you guys are stressing over this, and for good reason, but the AC around here is not interested in taking a horse if there is any way around it. If they are seeing improvement from the pictures, I can promise they will not take the horse, as much as we may want them to. They don't have the resources.

I'm glad the OP is having the vet out for hers at least, maybe they can give her some idea of what else to do to help the app that won't be too much for their checkbook. Personally, I'd tell the owners of those other two that the vet WILL be out to check all the horses, to expect a bill, and have him look at them too, while he's there.


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## lilkitty90

i did i told snowflakes owners that we are having the vet out and that snowflake NEEDS to be checked because i think she has tapeworms. and such or at least thats what i told him. and i told him that infront of the AC officer and he agreed that regardless if any of the others get checked that snowflake needed it the most.


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## lilkitty90

now we have even more to add to this mess, today i noticed baby limping, her rear left leg is swollen around the pastern, and about half way up to her knee/hock or w/e you wanna call it. i felt around and really didn't feel much heat in it except right at the bottom towards her hoof on the back, i believe it's called the pastern (sorry not very good with all the leg terminology) the vet is coming out this friday, and it's to late today to call and see if he can come out tomarrow, anything i can do for her until friday?


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## AlexS

Sounds like as the vet is coming tomorrow, today when you read this, you can ask him then. 


Do you have any recent pictures of the mare and gelding that are not yours? How are they looking now?


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## lilkitty90

no, no recent pictures but we can take some next time we remember to bring the camera, but i'll say as of right now, they still pretty much look the same.


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## ptvintage

It's hard to determine exactly what it is your looking at. I was thinking of a bowed tendon, but I think there's usually heat all the way up. Is the swelling in the soft tissue or is it hard like bone? You could try cold hosing her leg for about 20 minutes a couple of times a day, and keep her in a restricted area.

I was just about to say that it sounds kind of serious, so I hope the vet gets out sooner, but then I realized today is Friday. I hope the vet will be able to help you out with her.


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## lilkitty90

i hope so, and in the off chance that it is serious (i'll have him look at her before he gelds sparta) that way i can make the decision if it's severely serious i'll get her taken care of and just toss sparta out in the pasture with the 2 geldings and let him keep his boys a bit longer. as we only have about 200$ budgeted to spend on the vet bill this go around, but hopefully i wont have to do that and he'll give me a suggestion on what i can do!

it feels a little hard but thats only because it's swollen and her skin is stretched. it is pretty squishy and all i have to do is barely touch her leg and she'll jerk it up in the air from the pain, so i know she's hurting. i really hope it's nothing serious and maybe she just pulled something.


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## lilkitty90

yellow is where the swelling is seen and felt, and green is where the heat was felt.


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## Alwaysbehind

When is the vet coming?


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## JustDressageIt

Is Sparta sharing a fenceline or kept anywhere near0 the mares?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lilkitty90

unfortuantly yes he's in with 3 mares, the vet is comming between 4-5 he said he would call. so i'm just waiting on the phone for now.


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## NdAppy

So are you going to have the mares checked to make sure they aren't pregnant or are you just going to hope that they aren't?


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## horseobsessed977

They look very happy in their newly fenced pasture ^.^
I love all their furry winter coats


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## lilkitty90

he isn't tall enough and the vet said there is pretty much no chance of him impregnating them at this point. but he's now gelded anyway.

he felt around on baby's leg and looked at her and pretty much just said that she did hurt her tendon but without the ultra sound he can't know exactly what it is, i told him what i wanted to do, with the hosing and stalling and wrapping and linement and everything. and he agreed and said it's going to be a LONG road to recovery but she should be fine.

she is off in a stable by herself and i think it's pretty much putting more of a strain on her, as she is constantly pawing at the door and freaking out, because she's the lead mare and is used to be with her herd. this is the first time she's been alone without any horses in almost 3 years. when i walked her down to the hose she wanted to trot and drag me because she wanted to get back with her herd = / i feel really bad for her.


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## NdAppy

Trust me, height doesn't mater. If there is a will there is a way and the deed will be done.


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## Buckcherry

You might want to try a calming suppliment while shes stalled. Im not for drugging horses but it might take the edge off.


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## lilkitty90

poor girl is going to be stalled for the next year lol, poor thing's gonna be a drug addict lol


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## Poseidon

Don't tranq her every day. Dear lord. That would cost a fortune and just be unhealthy for her. Get SmartCalm Ultra or something.


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## lilkitty90

what is that poseidon?


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## Poseidon

It's a calming supplement made by SmartPak. It'll take the edge off while she's stalled. You can order a month's worth from SmartPak. It only takes a couple weeks to start working. You could get that and see if it'll calm her down a bit about being away from her herd.


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## lilkitty90

i'll look into it, she was doing better today and you can't really see a limp when she walks, but you can tell it still hurts her, just barely touch it and she jerks it up. and she cried when i left the stall

and here are updated pictures of the 2 horses.


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