# english discipline?



## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

H elooks like a QH cross? Maybe built a little down hill and a bit green? 

It is hard to tell from these photos but in photo #1 he is on his forehand and in number 2 not so much but not trained enough yet to collect. 

What do you want to do with him in English discipline? I always started horses on the flat working on balance and collections, turns, learning to shift weight to the rear and things of that nature. This is essential education and from there you move up. 

Maybe I do not understand the question?


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## dashforcache (Nov 2, 2010)

Elana said:


> H elooks like a QH cross? Maybe built a little down hill and a bit green?
> 
> It is hard to tell from these photos but in photo #1 he is on his forehand and in number 2 not so much but not trained enough yet to collect.
> 
> ...


he is QH/Pinto cross.not downhill.he's 12 but had almost 3 years off due to not being able to move him to where i moved as well as then getting pregnant and having a son. last winter i moved him to a new barn near me and started putting time on him again. so ya, he's green. i was going to use him as a reiner but things didn't turn out that way so i walked away from that idea and decided to do kindove an all around guy. i want to show him a bit more this year but i wanna do western and english with him. i'm just trying to figure out what classes i want to do with him. i am not going to do any jumping with him, only flat. we are working on getting him more balanced right now...any thoughts on what i should do with him and excersises to help all these things?thanks.









here is a picture from the spring time, i know he's behind the bit and my hands are horrible, i was under direction of a trainer to have my hands like that with him, that is now fixed.i just didn't add this one cuz i'm riding him western here.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

He is on his forehand in this photo too, tho appears a lovely horse. 

Long trots up hill will help him physically. Cavaletti (trotting). Teaching him to lenghten stride and shorten stride. Work on smooth transitions (start at the walk). The object is to work the horse sort of like an accordian.. if that makes sense.. Lots of half halts and transistions up and down.. lots of transitions from extension to collection. 

It is a LOT of work to get a horse to travel with his weight to the rear and to lighten his front. Lots of hours of gymnastics. I used to train in the arena and on the trails.. never let the horse get sloppy.. and lots of transistions out on the trail too.

In this photo one of the tell tale signs of being on the forehand. Look at his left front foot nd his right hind foot. In the canter on the right lead, these ttwo legs move together. Notice the left front is on the grund but the right hind foot is not. This shows he is cantering down hill. If he were lightening his forehand the feet hit the ground simultaneously and if he were light inhis forhand the hind foot would strike the ground before the front foot in the canter on the right lead.. even on a circle. Another indication of being on his front is he is over at the bit (chin tucked behind the verticle). I would suggest not cantering.. going back to the trot and working that until he is relaxed and supple. Canter work is then started on a loose rein on the straight.. a few strides then a series of half halts down to a balanced transition back to a trot. 

Trotting lots of circles.. spiral in and out.. looking at the center of the cricle to keep the things round. go both directions of course.


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## dashforcache (Nov 2, 2010)

Elana said:


> He is on his forehand in this photo too, tho appears a lovely horse.
> 
> Long trots up hill will help him physically. Cavaletti (trotting). Teaching him to lenghten stride and shorten stride. Work on smooth transitions (start at the walk). The object is to work the horse sort of like an accordian.. if that makes sense.. Lots of half halts and transistions up and down.. lots of transitions from extension to collection.
> 
> ...


thanks.he has strangles right now so i won't be able to try anything yet but when he's better i will.where we live, there are LOTS of hills around us, unfortunately everything is ice here right now, but hopefully once he is better it will be better. i haven't been using cavaletti becasue we don't have any...and even though i had him jumping a little bit last summer we haven't done any since so last time i even had ground poles out while i was on him he freaked and would refuse to go over them so i started putting him on a lunge line and doing it that way and he is better now. with it but i will have to wait until he is better. lengthening and shortening his stride at the trot i don't have a problem with. at the canter he's quite speedy though and i have a very hard time slowing him.as well as his tranistions are much better. i have been working on getting him lighter off my leg too because he tends to lean on my legs so this has helped with his transitions as well.thank you. i will work on all this and when he gets better i will get some more pictures to add.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

The reason he is speedy at the canter is because he is unbalanced and on his forehand (a very common problem with horses that are not balanced). Don't canter him until you can get smooth transitions at the walk and trot.. this means trot to halt, halt to trot, trot to walk, lengthening and shortening the trot stride. Lengthen and shorten at the walk as well. turns.. circles.. all at the trot.

Caveletti is something you build. If you do them correctly and start with one at ground level and then add a second one and so forth until you can get him to trot 4 on the ground.. then you rotate the X and raise the poles a bit. You also later the spacing as he is more confident to show him how to lengthen his stride. 

Training a horse to be balanced on the flat is where MOST trainers fall down. It takes a LOT of time.. months really.. to get it right. If more folks did this work and really got the horse physically able to collect and extend then when they added jumps or started higher level dressage work the horses would do much much MUCH better. 

When a horse is balanced and working off his hind quarters he will round naturally and respond to the rider's most subtle moves. Just sitting up staright will get a balanced halt.. and a slight pressure with your leg and a weight shift will initiate a turn.. Pick up a rein and the horse will collect in anticipation of your next request.

Horse training is like the most beautiful ballet.. and that is what you are after.. the lightest possible seat and cue to elicit a response. 

If you ever get the chance to ride a horse that has a high degree of training you will know what it feels like.. and, beleive me, it is like being a centaur. You THINK what you want to do next and it is done.. lightly and beautifully.

I want to add.. this horse is capable of that. Take a step BACK in his training and take your time.. LOTS of time.. and get him off his forehand. He will work longer and older and be such a JOY. You will need a ton of time and dedication.. but when you get it the feeling is magic.


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## dashforcache (Nov 2, 2010)

Elana said:


> The reason he is speedy at the canter is because he is unbalanced and on his forehand (a very common problem with horses that are not balanced). Don't canter him until you can get smooth transitions at the walk and trot.. this means trot to halt, halt to trot, trot to walk, lengthening and shortening the trot stride. Lengthen and shorten at the walk as well. turns.. circles.. all at the trot.
> 
> Caveletti is something you build. If you do them correctly and start with one at ground level and then add a second one and so forth until you can get him to trot 4 on the ground.. then you rotate the X and raise the poles a bit. You also later the spacing as he is more confident to show him how to lengthen his stride.
> 
> ...


ya, i figured as much that thats why he's so speedy at the canter.thanks so much for your help!it's been great and i can't wait until he is better so we can get back to work :lol: i just have a question, and it's not that i don't have faith that he can do it, i'm just curious as to why you think he can do this? i will be stepping back with him and working with all your suggestions. maybe once we get going again i will make a progress thread.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

From the photos, he looks to have all the parts in the right places. Really you are not asking anything other than to build his foundation. He reaches way under himself with his hind feet so that says a bit. You sit up nice in the saddle, so that says more (helps to lighten his front). 

He has learned to evade the excercise by going over the bit (tucking his chin) and that is a hard thing to fix.. but by taking a step back and rebuilding the foundation this horse has a look (in the photos) that I like very much. Wish I could watch you and help or get on him and show you and help. He has THAT sort of look and I am a sucker for seal bay horses.


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## dashforcache (Nov 2, 2010)

Elana said:


> From the photos, he looks to have all the parts in the right places. Really you are not asking anything other than to build his foundation. He reaches way under himself with his hind feet so that says a bit. You sit up nice in the saddle, so that says more (helps to lighten his front).
> 
> He has learned to evade the excercise by going over the bit (tucking his chin) and that is a hard thing to fix.. but by taking a step back and rebuilding the foundation this horse has a look (in the photos) that I like very much. Wish I could watch you and help or get on him and show you and help. He has THAT sort of look and I am a sucker for seal bay horses.


thanks. we have actually fixed the evading problem, and it wasn't as hard as i thought it would be, all i had to do was just fix how i was told to have my hands and it fixed itself.i will start to get some videos once he is better and post them. he is quite the horse to ride. he is very forgiving, willing, and has just enough attitude to keep things interesting. and on top of it all, he is a very confortable horse to ride, i find his gates very smooth.lol, i know he looks seal bay but he is actually a solid black, for some reason he bleached out this year, i have owned him for 5 years and rode him for 2 before i bought him and this is the first year i have ever seen him bleach out at all.well see what happens to him this year.what do you think he could excel in?


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Every horse has a niche. The horse will let you know what that is. I had an appy mare years back who did not excel at anything.. was just miserable.. until I took her jumping to the fox Hunting arena. Best field hunter you could ever ask for!

I had another horse I trained in dressage.. actually got a levade on him.. and he was in his element in competitive trail riding. 

A thoroughbred I had was bred for the hunter ring.. and she was a darn good cow horse! 

I woud get the basics on a horse and try different things. Some horses were great at a variety of things. 

BTW if you horse fades and is "black" he is actually either a seal brown of a fading black. Most black horses are not really black (blue black that never fades). Most are seal brown or fading black. Has to do with the Locus and black allele... 

I think if you go back to basics with this horse.. get him more balanced.. you will find what he is good at. It might be dressage (tho going to higher levels is years of work). It might be 3 foot hunters.. or 3'6" hunters.. or even reining.. 

I do like his look.


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## dashforcache (Nov 2, 2010)

Elana said:


> Every horse has a niche. The horse will let you know what that is. I had an appy mare years back who did not excel at anything.. was just miserable.. until I took her jumping to the fox Hunting arena. Best field hunter you could ever ask for!
> 
> I had another horse I trained in dressage.. actually got a levade on him.. and he was in his element in competitive trail riding.
> 
> ...



















just thought i would put these up for ya to see. this is when he was 7 when i first bought him. look how black he was here and this in in aug.i was unaware as to why he got so brown this year.

ya, last year when he was jumping a little bit he seemed to really start enjoying it but then he just stopped. so i dunno, i am just going to take him back a step like you said and work on these things and see where things take us. IMO i think he would do well in a variety of things. but it could just be my oppinion cuz he's my baby  thanks a ton


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

The bit of white on his forehead lets me know he is a fading black and not a bloue black horse. 

BTW if he is intelligent, he will get bored. If you want to jump you have to work flat and have a jump out there.. maybe do some caveletti and bounces.. gymnastics.. tho as much on the forehad as this horse works, I woud not be jumping him a lot until I had that working for me. 

Still, you don't want to be too repetitive jumping. Horses get bored. You work the flat and then throw a little jump in almost as a surprise. If he has not done much jumping at all, he can get sore too. Even foot sore depending on his feet and the landing surface.

The thing is you want to keep things changing. Never let him know "oh this is ANOTHER figure 8." More like Oh.. a figure 8.. where did that come from.. and now she wants a half pass.. Oh my.. or a little bit of shoulder in.. or a half halt to a stop... 

Humans are good at making patterns. Horses are good at recognizing them. Be better at being random and your horse will stay interested.


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## dashforcache (Nov 2, 2010)

Elana said:


> The bit of white on his forehead lets me know he is a fading black and not a bloue black horse.
> 
> BTW if he is intelligent, he will get bored. If you want to jump you have to work flat and have a jump out there.. maybe do some caveletti and bounces.. gymnastics.. tho as much on the forehad as this horse works, I woud not be jumping him a lot until I had that working for me.
> 
> ...


thanks, i don't think we will be doing much jumping for a while i'm just gonna step back like you said. you have given me some things that i am looking forward to working on. thanks


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## dashforcache (Nov 2, 2010)

well, i went out and rode him today...not for very long. but anyways, he hadn't been ridden for a while so was kindove fresh but i did transitions with him, i threw a few small circles in his warmup randomly at the walk and did some transitions on circles and some spiraling in and out of circles at the trot and it really helped him to settle down, lighten up and relax. if it's not too cold in the next two days, i will take the camera with me and see if i can get some video to post.


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## dashforcache (Nov 2, 2010)

YouTube - chance 1 april 5.wmv here's a quick updated video of him decided he's really enjoying hus and wp so that's wut were working on. He is improving incredibly quick. This was after him having 2 weeks off and at the very end of our ride. I do have more video but I'm on my phone and can't add them to youtube yet lol. Let me kno what everyone thinks.


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