# Stocky Pony - Heavier Rider



## OutWest (3 mo ago)

I've been doing some searching, and have read several threads on the subject, but thought I'd ask my specific question anyway. Here it is:

I am interested in a Gypsy Vanner...the only thing is, she is not a horse, but a pony--standing (currently) at 12.3 hands. She is a 3 year old mare, and may grow some more, but it's pretty likely she'll stay at about the size she is at.

I would like to be able to ride this mare eventually, but I worry I'm too heavy for her. I am 5' 5" and hover at around 180lbs. The mare is very stocky--I'd say almost more than most Gypsy Vanners even. I do not do any hard riding, just casual walks/trots around the fields (no jumping, racing, climbing, etc.). Would she be able to carry me comfortably?

Also, I have considered driving, but I'm not sure I'm as comfortable with it as you're not able to feel the horse like you can when you are riding. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks!


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Wow, that is really small. Are you sure she’s full gypsy? I thought they tended around 15? I would say a three year old draft has a lot of growing to do, but if you don’t own her already, I would pass on that small of a horse.


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## DollyandAya (4 mo ago)

That is quite small. I don't think she could carry you _comfortably_, maybe for short rides and as Knave said she may grow more. But that is very small for a Gypsy; looking it up that would make her a "mini vanner", or a crossbred.


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

As has been said above, she seems to be much too small for a full Vanner, so I doubt she will be able to carry you comfortably. Besides, she still has many years left to mature. Draft types don't fully mature until they are around 8, so should not be lightly ridden until they are at least 5-6, no matter how "stocky" they look.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

OutWest said:


> Also, I have considered driving, but I'm not sure I'm as comfortable with it as you're not able to feel the horse like you can when you are riding. Any advice would be appreciated.


Sensitive hands are sensitive hands and are very effective for feeling the horse. Driving can bring as much or more pleasure and open a whole new world as you can share without the worry of placing someone with unknown skills on your animal. Driving - you are in control. 

Size - I'd give the pony a hard pass. Over 14 hand range and draft pony then consideration time. This height. This age and IMO just no.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

OutWest said:


> The mare is very stocky--I'd say almost more than most Gypsy Vanners even.


This suggests obesity. Though there are two differing types of draft horses and I'd say same for draft ponies that there are farm and pulling builds (think body builder) and sport or hitch builds (think ballerina).


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

If, if she is a Gypsy Vanner and 3 years of age she has about 3 more years max of growth to reach her potential "larger" self.
Now, that also includes width not just height as all horses do both.
Vanners fall under classification of draft horses and need remembering that about them and how they grow and mature.
_*Have you seen the sire and dam?*_ Offspring usually fall somewhere around the parentage in what they finally become.
You did not mention registered_ {that's your business}_ but papers that match the horses markings give you a definite age not guesstimates.

Because she is stocky does not mean she can carry you either.
@QtrBel breeds drafts and can tell you there is a difference in build and what a draft can carry. 
You would expect drafts because of mass can carry more and that is just _not_ true....
It has to do with how the horse is built, not fat.. not muscle_ {that helps though}_, but bone structure is what truly is a guide to what a animal should or should not be made to carry and do.
Again, according to breed characteristics Gypsy's fall between 13 - 16 hands so yours is not far off the mark for being in breed specifics and on the smaller side..

Your horse is yet young....because of mass do not forget this animal is still a youngster. 
Growing, developing and maturing, again if this is a Vanner goes 5 - 7 years according to a google search of growth ahead.
To soon to ride at 3 years of age for me....you want to do preliminaries, fine....but to actually saddle up and ride...no.
Would not be me at your current weight in honesty.

I found you this from a breeder of and may be more information shared correct with finding mature height of a animal of this breeding.








Growth Rate of Gypsies | hiddenponds







www.hiddenpondsgypsies.com




I do worry when you say the animal is what sounds obese is health and indeed structural issues of carrying so much excess to the soft bones and more to the organs the animal needs to be healthy for its entire life.
If you are that serious about this animal at this age and want to ride now...then a PPE done for health reasons and since so obese I would be having x-rays taken of bones and joints that obese can truly affect negatively.
More than that, if the animal is this age or possibly a few months less those knees would absolutely be on the hit parade of picture taken. I personally will never get astride one with open knees for their future soundness...they are babies and not ready to carry weight astride. That is not just this breed but any breed of horse/pony...closed knees or no weight to the back and riding, no to the added stresses of hard-training either, period.

I also follow the 20% rule...._ the horse at its current size and weight should *not* be carrying more than 20% in weight of rider and all tack it wears...its not just the rider but saddle and all the tack added._
So if currently that animal is weighing in at say 850 pounds then you are to heavy for it to carry and ....if this ends up being a smaller animal and only matures to the magic number of 1,000 pounds you are near tipping the scale to *no* in your stocking feet without any tack held in your arms..._sorry._
Since you_ don't know_ where this animal is to finally mature and weigh in at....that is a very close margin and error can affect the future of the animal.

Found you this one of generalities might be a easy read and a bit of enlightening of the animal pro & con.








Gypsy Vanner: Horse Breed Profile


The Gypsy Vanner is an eye-catching breed known for being talented in multiple disciplines, highly trainable, and for having a great disposition.




www.thesprucepets.com




It gets a lot more involved when you refer to young, growing and yet maturing animals than matured ones who weight in, present as a finished product we then can look at and say this animal works for me or it not in fairness to the animal who carries us and does our bidding.
🐴... _jmo..._


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

Sounds like she's fat. Have a picture?

I ride a 12.1h, I'm 130, 5'8. He's not thin boned, but also not drafty boned either. I don't ride him when I reach 140, as I personally feel I'm too heavy for his back & joint health at that weight.

I'd look for something taller & fit.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

At that age and height she may put on another inch to 1/2 inch. I wouldn't expect her to be over 13 hands or if over not by more than a fraction of an inch.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I've never seen anything suggesting the 20% Rule is valid. It doesn't make much sense structurally and I've never seen evidence for it in scientific studies or my own experience. There was one bad study that "proved it" because it was designed to prove it. I'd interpret their data to suggest a 30% Rule - using the same information!

A 3 year old that size might be an issue. But this is 13.0 Cowboy and me when I weighed 180 lbs, using a 30 lb saddle:






This was some years later, when I was down to 155 and using a 20 pound Abetta saddle.






Three years old is a little young. You would definitely need all the leg bones to be sound - and I'd pay far more attention to the diameter of the legs than the weight of the horse.

That goes back to the structural problem of the "20% Rule": As the horse's weight goes up, the legs have to support his OWN weight along with the rider. A lighter horse with thick legs is structurally better at carrying a heavier rider because it isn't hauling around a bunch of its own weight. Suppose someone has a fat horse who is hauling around 150 pounds of fat already. That extra weight does NOT mean they can carry more. It means they can carry less!

People worry about the horse's back, but it isn't the spine that carries weight. It is the muscle of the back that carries it. You can strengthen the back with progressive exercise, but the leg bones are what they are and their cross section largely determines the load bearing capacity of the legs.

As an animal's weight increases, the cross section of the bones increase by the square (X times X) but its weight increases by the cube (X times X times X). If proportions stay the same, a horse that is 1.2 times larger (in each direction) would increase the cross section of the bones by 1.44 but increase in weight by 1.73.

Ponies don't get the respect they deserve at carrying weight. Many can handle a weight well out of proportion to their size:















Meet The 70-Year Old Who Came To Mongolia To Race The World’s Toughest Horse Race, And Won It


Mongolia through the eyes of the Mongol Derby 2019 winner, Bob Long.




www.forbes.com





That said, at 180 pounds and a 3 year old horse, _*I'd look for a little bigger.*_ I think 180 pounds is near Cowboy's upper limit and he's a very experienced horse (who had to carry over 200 pounds regularly in his lesson horse days!) and he's about perfect in conformation for carrying heavy riders. Without knowing any more than I've read in your post, I'd pass. Some horses that size could make it work but others could not. Why chance it?


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## OutWest (3 mo ago)

Hey everyone,

Thanks for your replies. The sire and dam of the Gypsy I'm looking at were both in the 14 hand range (14.2/14.3), so I do expect this one to get a little bigger, but she is clearly going to be smaller than them. 

She is definitely not obese...my wording probably threw you off, sorry. What I meant by that was that she is in the full-draft type category of build with thick legs and a strong back and neck (at least, that's what I noticed when I went to see her). I have miniature horses and when they are getting a little overweight, it's easy to tell... I went to see the Gypsy because I was interested in driving, but I'm not sure about that yet--I'm definitely more familiar with riding. And, I do agree with you all that she is probably too small for me (or I need to make myself smaller). 

Any suggestions for getting into driving, then? (And can you start them at 3 years old, or should I just do groundwork until she's older?) I haven't decided to purchase her yet, which is why I'm asking questions. Thanks everyone!


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

I started ground driving at half that age if they were mentally ready. Most it was closer to 2. She'd be fine for pulling a light load on flat ground or noise makers to get her used to something behind her.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Here's a read that may help.








Tall rider on a chincoteague pony?


So I'm a tall rider 6' 1". I read today that the chincoteague pony swin and carnival was canceled for 2021 and they are doing an online auction for the ponies. July was the time frame I was planning on for buying a new horse. So it kinda works out, but my grandmother (and myself kinda) are not...




www.horseforum.com


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