# Choosing a Wintec Gullet without a Gauge



## AQHSam (Nov 23, 2011)

My new Wintec 2000 saddle and the adjustable gullet kit arrived today. I purchased the gullet kit used. All of the widths were included, but not the gauge.

I can order a gauge separately, but it will take time to arrive. Finding one local is not an option and I am already planned on a trail trip this weekend.

Does anyone have experience with fitting the brace to the horse without the gauge? Are there any tips you can provide me to get it right on the first (or second) try?

The medium (black) brace is installed in the saddle. From my first look, it is too narrow and causing the saddle to sit higher on the withers than desired. 

Which leaves me three possible fits (blue, red, and white). 

Any advice you can give me other than trial and error will be greatly appreciated.


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## unclearthur (Feb 25, 2012)

The gauge often measures too narrow. You don't really need it.

If you have loose gullets, the easiest way to measure is this. Get a roll of sticky tape. Measure three finger-widths (2") back from the back of the horse's shoulder blade and stick a piece of tape there. This is where the tree points should sit.

Then take a gullet and drop it over the horse's withers so it lines up with the tape position. The correct fit gullet should sit snugly against the horse along it's whole length - if there's a gap at the top over the horse's spine it's too tight, and if it rattles side-to-side it's too big.

Two caveats, though. If you have a very wide/flat withered horse you may need to press down on the gullet from above, so it sinks into any subcutaneous fat, to be more accurate. And if you have a horse with poorly developed trapezius so it dips in behind the shoulder you may get a slight rattle with the right fit. In this case, if you press the gullet close to the horse on one side and can get one finger or less into the gap on the other, you've got the right fit but probably need a flock adjustment to correct the discrepancy. These latter two are really a matter of experience.

Once you fit the selected gullet, girth the saddle up tight enough to mount to check the front to back balance (ie. if it sits level with cantle slightly higher than pommel) and check it from the back and front (so it's not sitting to one side). Then put the flat of your hand in the gullet at the pommel and run it down the back of the horse's shoulder, between saddle and horse and on both sides, to make sure it's not tight. You should feel firm pressure but your hand shouldn't stop when it gets to the tree point.

Voila! Now you can pull off the piece of tape!

Best of luck


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## AQHSam (Nov 23, 2011)

Thank you.

Unfortunately, I was unable to read this before I headed out to the barn, so I did my own trial and error. I ended up selecting the white gullet brace, but my reasoning appears to be wrong. I put the white brace over the horse until it stopped without force. There was probably 2 inches between the horse and the top of the gullet brace, but it had the most touch area to the horse (compared to blue and red).

I am also going to use the tape and make sure I am not too far back.

I will try this with the red and blue braces on Thursday, pushing down on the braces to see if they will ease further down the horse. My horse is not what I would call fat at this time. You can feel his ribs and spine. He is definitely mutton withered though.

however, there is a possibility that the red brace would be an appropriate fit, had I pushed down on the brace.

following this method, How will I know if a brace is too big? even with the white brace, there was still clearance at the withers when the saddle was placed on the horse.


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

Easy solution - take pictures and bring them here! 

If it's too narrow, the saddle will look "perched" on the horses back:


And if its just right, it will look like its hugging the horse 



I'm not sure how well you can tell in this pictures, but if you look hard enough you will see what I'm talking about


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## AQHSam (Nov 23, 2011)

Thank you QHRiderKE. I will take pics tonight. Yesterday I was dead set on trying to get everything put together for a turn around the barn before I picked my hubbie up from the airport.

I figured I would "tweak" it tonight so when I arrive at the campground Friday I don't need to deal with anything. I'll take pics and post tonight.

Wow. I felt like a total noob the entire evening though. :shock: My western to English analogy is: the difference between getting in a car and riding a motorcycle. 

The English AP saddle does provide more stability, when compared to bareback. It's just amazing how different it feels when you remove the high pommel and horn and the skirt in back of the saddle. It's a visual/tactical difference. Also, not having the stirrup attached to the fender is something to get used to.


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## unclearthur (Feb 25, 2012)

AQHSam said:


> Thank you.
> 
> 
> following this method, How will I know if a brace is too big? even with the white brace, there was still clearance at the withers when the saddle was placed on the horse.


It'll rattle - the gullet will sit on the horse's spine with no gap but you'll have gaps underneath it either side as it runs downwards.

I sounds to me as if the white gullet (XW) may not be wide enough. QHs can be a pain


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

When I ride tonight, I will take my medium gullet plate and take pics of it on my narrow filly, same with my med/narrow or so plate and the saddle with the wide plate in it and you can see what fits and what doesnt.

It would still help if you got pics!!!


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## AQHSam (Nov 23, 2011)

Well my iPad isn't playing nice with the forum. So VERY frustrating. I have been uploading photos recently without issue but tonight when it matters I cannot. :evil:

I am worried that my saddle looks more perched than hugging. But, there are no gaps along the sides or back. Furthermore, it sits snugly but I can move my hand underneath without any pinch points. My western saddle had two definite pinch points. 

I may be a little far forward. The saddle looks even. 

I know. Pics would help. I have about 10. As soon as I figure out why the system is not cooperating I will get them up.


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## AQHSam (Nov 23, 2011)

I uploaded the pictures to Facebook. Maybe this will work.

https://www.facebook.com/natalie.a....0201942060137971.1073741827.1378660771&type=3


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

Nope, don't work for me


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## unclearthur (Feb 25, 2012)

Did for me 

Okay - I'd say from the pics the shoulder and gullet angles match, the level looks fine from the side, and if you can get your hand in everywhere when it's girthed up that ought to be fine.

Two things I can't tell (i) whether there's any gap between horse and saddle mid-panel. Probably not, but you can tell by sliding your hand between horse's back and saddle at the back edge of the flap. And (ii) whether it tilts down one shoulder more than the other - it looks okay but you can measure between horses wither and inside of front arch (at the very top of the panel is usually easiest) with your fingers. You should get the same number of fingers in on each side. Really scientific, huh? 

Then just ride on it and see if you think the horse goes any better ie. more freely, the same, or worse. If the latter it's re-think time. If either of the first two...yay!


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## AQHSam (Nov 23, 2011)

unclearthur said:


> Did for me
> 
> Okay - I'd say from the pics the shoulder and gullet angles match, the level looks fine from the side, and if you can get your hand in everywhere when it's girthed up that ought to be fine.
> 
> ...


Thank you. There is not a gap anywhere before or after girthing. In fact, for the first time I could run my hand underneath the saddle tree after it was girthed. My western saddle had two distinct points at the front of the tree where my hand stopped. 

During the ride I was feeling around and could still push my hand into his muscling and gain access between him and the saddle at the front tree points. 

We did a 3 hour trail ride this morning. Steep ups and downs, trotting, loping, you name it. My opinion? He loves it. I do believe he moved freer.

The test? His saddle pad was wet through evenly and consistently in all spots where the saddle placed weight. The very edge of the gullet and maybe 2 inches back along the spine seam on the pad was dry, but that area did not touch the horse. i made a pocket. The horse was wet in this area. 

Thank you everyone for your advice.


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## RubyRace (Apr 3, 2019)

*Choosing a Wintec Gullet without a gauge*

Hi guys. I know this thread is long dormant, but it seems that ye might be able to help me  I have a pony that's fairly wide. I have a Wintec Wide saddle which, on paper, should fit her. I have the narrowest gullet in it at the moment (I think it's a very light lilac). No matter what way I pad it or shim the pad, the stupid thing slips off to the side. Would putting a wider gullet in this saddle just make the slipping worse or would it help because the saddle will sit lower down on the shoulders?

I hope my question makes sense


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## unclearthur (Feb 25, 2012)

It makes perfect sense. Slipping one way is a common problem and in wider animals, most often caused by three things
(i) the gullet is too narrow, or
(ii) the horse is uneven side to side, or
(iii) a combination of both

Wide horses (I mean XW-plus) are difficult to judge gullet width for. That's because there's often so much fat or muscle - or a combination of both - behind the shoulder, that working out the angle you need can be, well, a bit of a nightmare. 

If you've got the full kit I'd generally try a wider gullet (the 2XW works for a lot of horses). The saddle will sit lower in front, but whether that's an issue depends a lot on whether the horse is croup-high or level. Put the saddle on, ungirthed, and slide it about on the horse's back to judge how much movement there is. Then fit the wider gullet and do the same. If the fit is any better you'll get slightly less movement.

Unless you've got a Wintec shim kit you won't be able to do anything much if it slips to one side. Looking down the horse's back from the tail end when it's stood square should give you an idea of whether the left or right shoulder is bigger, or whether one has a deeper hollow behind it into which the saddle will drop.

Best of luck


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## RubyRace (Apr 3, 2019)

Thanks very much. I spent half the day on Saturday putting in and taking out gullets and putting shims in the half pad that I have. For the moment, I seem to have gotten a combination that is least worst of them all  . The second biggest gullet with the pad shimmed on the left shoulder to make up for a small unevenness between the two. Thanks again for your help.


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