# How would you have handled this driving class?



## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

You know, it's so nice to be able to watch this again and again and again and see what COULD have been done, but even though the whole thing took 5 minutes, that seems like no time at all in a situation like that sometimes.

The announcer was quite calm and gave clear instructions. She saw the issue quickly and gave some warning. That was good. Perhaps in driving class, or any class for that matter, there should be (maybe there is already) a code word for runaway horse. You know, like CODE YELLOW! 

However, who in their right mind would try to catch or STEP IN FRONT of a paniced horse??? DUH??? And where did the owner/driver go? This is the guy that should know best how the horse will react to certain things. 

I think the best thing would be to clear the arena as soon as possible, which it appears they did do, even though it looks like it took forever. what other options do you have? Runaway horses happen at shows all the time. The big difference here is the cart and the additional danger it presents.

I don't show, I don't drive, so maybe my ideas aren't good, but that's all I've got.


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

That looked like a great showing of poor horsemanship. The guys that were 'trying' to catch the horse were just holding out their hands and hoping the horse would dodge!

I've lunged at a runaway horse before and caught the halter, and I weigh all of 100 pounds. You don't ever get in FRONT of them... but someone could have grabbed that horse or tried to corner it earlier.

Watch it without sound and it looks a heck of a lot more ridiculous with people just going, 'OMG OMG OMG--YOU catch it, /I/ don't want to get hurt!'


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## xilikeggs0 (Sep 14, 2008)

northernmama said:


> You know, it's so nice to be able to watch this again and again and again and see what COULD have been done, but even though the whole thing took 5 minutes, that seems like no time at all in a situation like that sometimes.
> 
> The announcer was quite calm and gave clear instructions. She saw the issue quickly and gave some warning. That was good. Perhaps in driving class, or any class for that matter, there should be (maybe there is already) a code word for runaway horse. You know, like CODE YELLOW!
> 
> ...


Wow, that video was horrible. The guy whose horse spooked first should have brought his horse to the inside, rather than trying to stay on the rail. If he had done that, the whole thing probably never would have happened. Everybody else could have exited the arena while he got his horse under control.

And yea, you are supposed to step in front of a runaway horse. Of course, you don't try to do it when he's 10 feet away, but if all the people in the ring would have made a line to act as a wall to keep the horse running straight, one of them could have stood at the end and stopped it. I've seen it done before on a busy street with a runaway carriage horse. Trust me, as long as you give them time to stop, they will not run you over. Just stand in front of them, wave your arms, and tell them to "ho" or "whoa" or whatever.

edit: Watch the guy at 3:35. He stood in front of the horse, and it didn't run him over. It turned and ran to the left. Imagine how easy it would have been to catch the horse if it couldn't have gone anywhere.


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## Ne0n Zero (Dec 25, 2008)

Were they trying to untangle that horse at the end or did he have to be put down?


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## TipTop (Mar 2, 2007)

No, he was fine. I think he went on to win National Champion if I remember correctly.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

xilikeggs0 said:


> Wow, that video was horrible. The guy whose horse spooked first should have brought his horse to the inside, rather than trying to stay on the rail. If he had done that, the whole thing probably never would have happened. Everybody else could have exited the arena while he got his horse under control.
> 
> And yea, you are supposed to step in front of a runaway horse. Of course, you don't try to do it when he's 10 feet away, but if all the people in the ring would have made a line to act as a wall to keep the horse running straight, one of them could have stood at the end and stopped it. I've seen it done before on a busy street with a runaway carriage horse. Trust me, as long as you give them time to stop, they will not run you over. Just stand in front of them, wave your arms, and tell them to "ho" or "whoa" or whatever.
> 
> edit: Watch the guy at 3:35. He stood in front of the horse, and it didn't run him over. It turned and ran to the left. Imagine how easy it would have been to catch the horse if it couldn't have gone anywhere.


I can understand making a line to block a horse, but just stepping in front is asking for a trip to the hospital, IMO. Also, don't forget the difference between a paniced horse and one that's just running. I've caught several runaways, but none of them were paniced.

I wonder if that driver would have been even capable of turning the horse to the inside without flipping. Looks like he bailed at his first opportunity anyway.


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## Skippy! (Dec 18, 2006)

I know nothing of Driving Horses, but...

If I was there, after seeing the second horse get SLAMMED into by the first horse, I would have had everyone unhook the carts from the horses.. it just seems to make sense to me o.o; I at least would have had all drivers get out of the carts if nothing else.

It seemed they had enough spotters in the little area in the center of the ring (even after a bunch of them ran out to "try" to stop the horses) to systematically hold horses so the drivers could get out and unhook the buggies, then roll the buggies to the center of the ring close that little area. I would then work at getting the horses out of the ring.

I think the announcer did the best out of everyone. She stayed really calm, and even had the presence of mind to tell everyone to keep quiet. I want her to Announce my next show 

That video is the epitome of a train wreck. It just keeps getting worse and you can't look away.


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## xilikeggs0 (Sep 14, 2008)

northernmama said:


> I can understand making a line to block a horse, but just stepping in front is asking for a trip to the hospital, IMO. Also, don't forget the difference between a paniced horse and one that's just running. I've caught several runaways, but none of them were paniced.
> 
> I wonder if that driver would have been even capable of turning the horse to the inside without flipping. Looks like he bailed at his first opportunity anyway.


 Watch at 1:30. That's exactly what I'm talking about not doing. If that guy had put his arms up, waved them, and yelled, the horse would have at the very least not run him over.

The guys at 3:30 had the right idea, but they all got scared and moved. The last guy did the best, at least he didn't dive out of the way. But the horse still turned to avoid running into him.


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

Sorry, but no. These horses had something chasing after them (carts and men in white coats!). There is no way in hell that horse would see, recognize, and stop for someone 'waving their arms'. There is a difference between a scared horse, and one running in blind panic. I've seen them run over barrels, into trees, etc. A person waving their arms? Doesn't stand a chance.


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## xilikeggs0 (Sep 14, 2008)

mayfieldk said:


> Sorry, but no. These horses had something chasing after them (carts and men in white coats!). There is no way in hell that horse would see, recognize, and stop for someone 'waving their arms'. There is a difference between a scared horse, and one running in blind panic. I've seen them run over barrels, into trees, etc. A person waving their arms? Doesn't stand a chance.


 I'm not going to turn this into an argument, but I have seen a carriage horse go from a gallop to a dead stop because of someone standing in front of the horse, waving their arms and telling the horse to 'whoa.' If the people in that ring had done something similar, rather than trying to stand off to the side and hope that they can catch the reins, that video wouldn't be nearly as long as it is.


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## LauraB (Nov 11, 2008)

xilikeggs0 said:


> I'm not going to turn this into an argument, but I have seen a carriage horse go from a gallop to a dead stop because of someone standing in front of the horse, waving their arms and telling the horse to 'whoa.' If the people in that ring had done something similar, rather than trying to stand off to the side and hope that they can catch the reins, that video wouldn't be nearly as long as it is.


I am sorry but it is very dangerous to step in front of a horse with a cart attached to it while it is moving. Do you have any idea of what the tip of that shaft could do to you if it hit you at that speed?


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## xx chico (Mar 12, 2009)

That was strange, the guy driving the runaway horse was in the cart then all of a sudden he was out.
Did you notice how at 1:30 a guy almost gets run over, there was another one too. Why stand in front of a scared horse???? With blinders on as well.

At the same time, I think they still handled it some what well, considering you cant really just stop a mad galloping horse.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Yup, panic is so totally different. The horse ran into other horses for heaven's sake! You wanna risk your life and try to stop it by waving your arms, *xilikeggs0*? You just go right ahead. I'll call 911 for you.


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## xx chico (Mar 12, 2009)

northernmama said:


> Yup, panic is so totally different. The horse ran into other horses for heaven's sake! You wanna risk your life and try to stop it by waving your arms, *xilikeggs0*? You just go right ahead. I'll call 911 for you.


:lol:

xilikeggs0 - Are you referring to something you were told once? I have been told by a few others that horses will *not* run you over, they will simply run around you or 'jump' over you (if your laying down i'd assume lol). This statement, yes can be very true, but in a situation where the horse is in extreme panic for its life, standing in front of the horse can result in some very bad results. 
If this is not what you meant, please do explain what you were talking about. (And just to make sure nothing nasty comes out of this, I'm not trying to argue with you on your opinion, just understand it a little bit more :wink


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## CheyAut (Nov 26, 2008)

xx chico said:


> That was strange, the guy driving the runaway horse was in the cart then all of a sudden he was out.
> .


When I first saw this I thought he bailed, but then I think maybe the cart bumped the wall and he fell out... show carts don't have much (if anything) of a back to them and are easy to tumble out the back if the wheel hits the wall like I THINK it does (hard to see due to the angle)


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## xilikeggs0 (Sep 14, 2008)

LauraB said:


> I am sorry but it is very dangerous to step in front of a horse with a cart attached to it while it is moving. Do you have any idea of what the tip of that shaft could do to you if it hit you at that speed?


 That's why I pointed out that the guy at 1:30 stepped in front of the horse at the last minute and got run over. The guy at the other time I posted (5:something?) was standing in front of the horse, somewhat stood his ground, and he horse swerved to avoid him.


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## xilikeggs0 (Sep 14, 2008)

xx chico said:


> :lol:
> 
> xilikeggs0 - Are you referring to something you were told once? I have been told by a few others that horses will *not* run you over, they will simply run around you or 'jump' over you (if your laying down i'd assume lol). This statement, yes can be very true, but in a situation where the horse is in extreme panic for its life, standing in front of the horse can result in some very bad results.
> If this is not what you meant, please do explain what you were talking about. (And just to make sure nothing nasty comes out of this, I'm not trying to argue with you on your opinion, just understand it a little bit more :wink


 Yes, it is something that I've been told, but I'm speaking from experience. I've seen it happen multiple times with runaway horses, including a carriage horse once. They will not run you over if they can avoid it. They will either slam on the brakes or go around you. If you step out in front of a runaway horse, yes, you will probably get run over. But if you're standing far enough away that the horse has time to see you and stop, they won't do it.


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## orchid park (Jun 1, 2008)

I cant view the clip as yet .... will have to wait til I use another computer, but does sound quite horrid.

I understand this particular time, it was your U.S. style of show carts, but since so many people on the interent are not aware of the workings of harness, its probably best not to suggest to stand in front of a bolting carriage horse, for safety reasons. If the panicked horse doesnt run you over, the vehicle probably will as its far wider then the horse. We would hate to hear of people getting hurt by doing this.

Harness is a very pleasureable and romanticised horse sport, but it does require a certain level of respect. Hopefully this clip will not have turned anyone off the sport, but just offer people the chance to respect what so many others (including myself) love and enjoy doing.

Happy and safe driving everyone. 


Regards,


Laura.


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

One, why are the people in the stands screaming? They need to shut up. All that they are doing is making a situation worse.
Two, I would of let first horse let it run itself out, and kept it on the rail. That could of prevented everything.

Those are amazing horses, so beautiful, and graceful...


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## Nine (May 25, 2008)

*I've driven horses. First, if the horse is panicking, a steady pull on the reins isn't gonna phase them. Saw the reins, jerk the reins, get the horse's attention. Keep your voice soft and calm. *
* I think the drivers should have gone to the middle of the ring, gotten out of the carts and held their horses' heads. Let the other people keep the runaway away from the other rigs.*
* And it just has to be said: How much more pretentious can the judges get, than running around with lab coats on??! Rediculously silly.*
* Of course this is all hindsight. Except for the dooffus judges and their lab coats.*


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## CheyAut (Nov 26, 2008)

I'm assuming it's NOT the judges, but the headers. Headers are people who come with the driver, and at the end of the class step in and stand in front of the horse's head. They are supposed to wear "lab coats." (I haven't seen the video in over a month though and can't at work... but that's how driving classes work)


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## TipTop (Mar 2, 2007)

What I heard was that in the Arab world it is the trainers that wear the lab coats.


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## CheyAut (Nov 26, 2008)

Often trainers will be the headers, so that makes sense to me. I will say my breed show knowledge is limited to AMHA and AMHR shows (miniatures)


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## Nine (May 25, 2008)

*I've never shown, so I don't know who wears what. It seems to me that arm bands would be more horse friendly, than lab coats. But in any case, I feel sorry for those panicked horses and the owners, who all have a lot of work before the next show. I've heard that once a horse has run with a carriage/buggy/etc, that they are about ruined for carriage work. Is this true?*


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## cowgirl4jesus94 (Jun 14, 2008)

Wow! What a mess...!


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## TipTop (Mar 2, 2007)

Nine said:


> *. I've heard that once a horse has run with a carriage/buggy/etc, that they are about ruined for carriage work. Is this true?*


Not from what I have observed at horse shows. I have seen horses that run away with the cart in one class at one show and then never another problem after that.


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## Juniper (May 4, 2007)

Can you believe those people in the stands who were shrieking? How asinine can you get? I was wondering also, since I first saw that video, what might have been done differently. Unhook the horses, that was a good idea. It is true, is it not, that panicked horses will try and dive into the other horses. Safety in numbers thing. Easier said than done to keep the horse on the rail.


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## Dreamer1215 (Jan 31, 2009)

_I don't know anything about driving horses, so I can't comment about how things should have gone. It's always easy sit sit back & watch & critique after the fact about what "should" have been done. I think they did as well as they could under the circumstances._

_I did read some of the comments on the You Tube page. Knowing that the lady who was still sitting in the cart towards the end was paralysed & could not move on her own makes it that much more scary. I'm glad to hear all the horses were fine, and I hope all the humans were fine as well._


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## tempest (Jan 26, 2009)

two words... holy cow. All that just because of one horse.


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## ponyluv (Apr 25, 2009)

sometimes a runway can end up ok.. but once the horse has been in an accident.. they are ruined as a driving horse.. being trapped and having no way to escape is terrifying for any animal.. it takes alot of trust to be a driving horse.. if you think about it.. how un-natural it is to have a big clunky thing behind you and not being able to see it.


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## arablvr31 (Apr 23, 2009)

*Not so true about training after an accident.*



ponyluv said:


> sometimes a runway can end up ok.. but once the horse has been in an accident.. they are ruined as a driving horse.. being trapped and having no way to escape is terrifying for any animal.. it takes alot of trust to be a driving horse.. if you think about it.. how un-natural it is to have a big clunky thing behind you and not being able to see it.


That's not true. I drive regularly and work with a professional trainer in the Carriage Driving world. Many horses have accidents and come back just fine. The horse that was lying on the ground, tangled in the traces, was a Youth National Champion in Driving the next year. My trainer worked with a Friesian mare that was in a bad driving accident, the cart she was pulling was destroyed. The mare never had a problem with being driven again. She had a very few spooky issues, but she had more issues when she was being driven by someone with no confidence. I firmly believe that more drivers have problems after a crash than the horses do.

Driving does require a great deal of trust between driver and horse. The training process should be slow and steady, building the trust before the horse is ever hooked to anything that could cause damage. Spending a lot of time with ground driving in a blind bridle and good old fashioned lunging in a blind bridle can be the key. The horse needs to understand voice commands and be 100% steady long before training shafts and weight are added to the harness and way, way before a cart is put anywhere near the horse.

My 10 YO mare was trained to drive over a 3 month period. She was very broke to ride and had extensive ground work on her with a blind bridle before the trainer ever started with her. We went to our first show in driving this last weekend and got a 2nd and a 3rd in our 2 classes. The picture below is her first drive in a heavier cart, with my trainer driving her. This was almost exactly 90 days after she started in training. (By the way, she's a purebred Arab)


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## xDressageDivAx (Apr 28, 2009)

Nine said:


> * I've heard that once a horse has run with a carriage/buggy/etc, that they are about ruined for carriage work. Is this true?*


This is only true to an extent - most of the time the horse will remember the runaway and will be nervous, or looking for the next oppurtunity to do it again. Depends on the trust. I have been on a carriage twice when the same horse has run off with it (I wasn't the driver, only the groom) as we were warming up for driving trials, the horses where in tandem and they always used to 'scuttle' for a hundred yards, and then they bolted out of the blue several times because they could, once landed the driver in hospital, the next landed me in hospital, and the time after nobody was hurt. They weren't used as driving ponies again and were sold as ridden ones xXx


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

To tell you the truth, I'm paranoid and always expecting disaster to strike in events like this. I probably would have gotten off and just held on to my horse.
When panic strikes and a disaster like this happens, it happens so quickly and everything so unusual happens so suddenly, I dont know that you can really make quick enough, rational decisions. 

Really sad and unfortunate for those poor horses and the stupid handlers involved.


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