# Building Neck Muscles.



## WelcomeStranger28

i have nooo idea sorry maddie!! i know how to get *** muscles!!


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## ChingazMyBoy

So do I Zoe, so do I. .


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## Valentina

ChingazMyBoy said:


> ...Well I was wondering how do you get neck muscles. I know that for a horse to be a good dressage horse and be able to "tuck" their head they need neck muscle. So I was wondering how can I work on neck muscles...Thanks Maddie.


Riding correctly since it is using the back that develops the neck muscles. (If the horse just tucks its head the underside of the neck will build up - and dressage wants the crest of the neck - topside - to build up.)

Ride horse forward off leg into longer reins and encourage the horse to bring it's head low but use reins to bend horse outside then inside. NOT constantly just once quickly outside followed immediately by a quick bend inside and slight push forward into the reins by a light leg. 

When you do the (SLIGHT) bending do NOT make the other rein loose - do when you bend the horse to the outside so you can see the edge of it's eye the inside rein stays at the same length it was pre-bend. 

You should be able to do this at walk trot and canter. If horse is not pulling on reins or throwing head into the air then you should see a slight BULGE in the center of the neck (if he's giving over his back into the reins). If not you're not doing it correctly, if he is and you continue to ride him this way he'll develop the muscles you're talking about.


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## Kayty

Valentina said:


> Riding correctly since it is using the back that develops the neck muscles. (If the horse just tucks its head the underside of the neck will build up - and dressage wants the crest of the neck - topside - to build up.)
> 
> Ride horse forward off leg into longer reins and encourage the horse to bring it's head low but use reins to bend horse outside then inside. NOT constantly just once quickly outside followed immediately by a quick bend inside and slight push forward into the reins by a light leg.
> 
> When you do the (SLIGHT) bending do NOT make the other rein loose - do when you bend the horse to the outside so you can see the edge of it's eye the inside rein stays at the same length it was pre-bend.
> 
> You should be able to do this at walk trot and canter. If horse is not pulling on reins or throwing head into the air then you should see a slight BULGE in the center of the neck (if he's giving over his back into the reins). If not you're not doing it correctly, if he is and you continue to ride him this way he'll develop the muscles you're talking about.


Couldn't agree more.

Re: side reins. I love them, however they're not a miracle tool to develop a topline. The horse needs to have a solid understanding on how to give to the rein and work over the back to get any benifit from them on the lunge. They're also not a training tool to use lightly as a beginner, you need to have a solid understanding of how to correctly lunge a horse in a bridle and saddle in walk, trot and canter. You can flip a horse over backwards in side reins if you don't know exactly what you're doing!!
Once a horse has a firm concept of working into the bit without leaning, and working over its back, you can introduce side reins. You can get elastised or fixed side reins, I prefer elastised for horse's learning about being worked in side reins, as there is a bit of give in them, however in the more advanced horse I like fixed ones. If you introduce them too early and are not exactly clear on how to use them and what you intend to achieve from their use, you will end up with a horse that either sucks back from the contact and while it may look pretty and have it's head tucked in, that's not correct and will compramise your ability to train the horse to any higher degree of dressage as it will not take up contact on your reins. The other result is that you will get a horse that hangs onto the rein, hollows and goes onto the forehand. 
Dont think side reins will automatically build top line. All that will build top line is a good diet, correct and consistant work, and perserverance. Hill work is great for building back muscles, work the horse in trot up the hill in long and low (no not on the forehand with it's nose on the ground) and it will be stretching it's back and developing those muscles absolutely necessary to achieve collection and further dressage work. Without these muscles your horse will also struggle to jump


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## flamingauburnmustang

I would also like to know how to build neck muscles, because my mare Night Heat has a weak topline, for one) she is abit thin and two) she has not been worked much. So I would like to hear ideas. = )


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## ChingazMyBoy

Valentina said:


> Riding correctly since it is using the back that develops the neck muscles. (If the horse just tucks its head the underside of the neck will build up - and dressage wants the crest of the neck - topside - to build up.)
> 
> Ride horse forward off leg into longer reins and encourage the horse to bring it's head low but use reins to bend horse outside then inside. NOT constantly just once quickly outside followed immediately by a quick bend inside and slight push forward into the reins by a light leg.
> 
> When you do the (SLIGHT) bending do NOT make the other rein loose - do when you bend the horse to the outside so you can see the edge of it's eye the inside rein stays at the same length it was pre-bend.
> 
> You should be able to do this at walk trot and canter. If horse is not pulling on reins or throwing head into the air then you should see a slight BULGE in the center of the neck (if he's giving over his back into the reins). If not you're not doing it correctly, if he is and you continue to ride him this way he'll develop the muscles you're talking about.


I'm counfused about the bending part, although I only read it quickly. So your saying riding him on a lose rein with leg to push him on works?


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## Kayty

Not a rein with a loop in it, you need to keep a contact on their mouth, but ask them to start stretching out into a longer rein. It's tricky if you go straight into a long rein and expect the horse to stretch into it, so start with a shorter rein and get them working their back, so leg, transitions, leg yielding, etc. until the horse starts to work it's back and reach for the rein. Give the reins out a little and if the horse stretches out to reach them (while still carrying itself and not rushing forward or falling on the forehand) you know you're on the right track, until you'll be able to give the reins right out almost to the buckle and have the horse stretching to meet the contact with a loose, swinging back... THAT is long and low and will assist in building up your horse's topline.

Also, what do you feed him? If he's only on hay, it's a bit harder to build muscle, so put him on a good quality, non heating hard feed


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## ChingazMyBoy

He gets corn, calm proformer, oat and chaft and wheat and chaft. Then he gets a biscuit of hay with that. So I want to start by giving him a little more rein then usual and get him to bring his head lower.

So instead of having him look like this:




_/

I want 


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## Kayty

Yep I understand what you want to acheive, it's what everyone wants 
As said many times above, leg leg leg, transitions, circles, figure of 8's, lateral work (leg yield is excellent), hill work etc. Don't hang off his gob, seesaw on the reins etc and you'll be on the right track 
Get yourself a good instructor who will teach you to ride a hrose into the bridle rather than pull its head down or let you ride him around like a giraffe, much more effective than having someone try to teach you over the net because we need to be there while you're riding to tell you what to do as you are doing it!!


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## ChingazMyBoy

Yes, my instructor works on it with me every week. But its only once a week, and I figured some more ideas couldn't hurt.


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## ~*~anebel~*~

The only way to correctly build muscle is to ride correctly. Correctly built muscle will take months to develop and only after years will your horse have a neck like a Grand Prix horse, and even then only if it actually is a Grand Prix horse.
There is no "quick fix", like in the rest of dressage. Although some trainers do give the horses steroids to build muscles quickly. This is being seen more and more in young horses at auction in order to make them look more advanced and thus - sell for more money.


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## madisonfriday

I agree with everyone yes and it takes a long time!! I would def try side reins so Chinga can get the feel of how to have pressure like that on the bit, then when you ride it'll be easier to get him to work.

Hero went fron trotting like this 5 months and thats not even getting anywhere yet - my horse is terrified of lunging so i had to do this all undersaddle.

You can see his neck was very under muscled in the left photo and in the right its getting there..









Then To this most recent










It takes time - I cannot wait to see how Chinga looks after you work with him!!


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## flamingauburnmustang

Wow! That is a huge change in your horse! It's hard to believe that's the same horse... :-o


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## IheartPheobe

Have you practiced bending before? (To the inside/outside?) This would probably help..


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## Kayty

madisonfriday said:


> I agree with everyone yes and it takes a long time!! *I would def try side reins so Chinga can get the feel of how to have pressure like that on the bit, then when you ride it'll be easier to get him to work.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It takes time - I cannot wait to see how Chinga looks after you work with him!!


 Scares me to think that people will go out and put side reins straight on a horse who has no concept of working over their back into the bit :shock: You'll end up with a very stuck horse with no hind legs, or one which curls in under himself to evade the pressure, which is hell to undo!!!!! But yeah I spose if you want the horse to look 'pretty' with blugy neck muscles while working, sure you can strap their heads up with side reins, just don't expect them to be very sound over the back in a few years.
Side reins should only be used when the horse has at least a basic understanding of how to work over their back and take the contact on the bit.


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## ChingazMyBoy

IheartPheobe said:


> Have you practiced bending before? (To the inside/outside?) This would probably help..


Do you mean peg type bending? I'm confused, I just don't want to screw it up.


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## madisonfriday

im not saying side reins will be the fix but itll help build up the muscle chinga needs, and itll help him except the bit.


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## Kayty

Whatever you say :S It'll teach him to 'accept' the bit by grabbing it and holding himself up on the sidereins, and developing some lovely undermuscle because he's got tension through his neck  Go for it, forced frames are all the go in pony club


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## ChingazMyBoy

I would only use side reins as a tiny help, sorta like a twig in a tree type thing?


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## mom2pride

A syrcingle and side reins set up can help the horse travel in a proper frame, without interference from a rider. I'm not talking about tight side reins either, just enough to help him understand and accept bit pressure. 

Chinga, you've gotten some decent advise so I won't add any right now


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## ChingazMyBoy

Thanks mom2pride, and everyone else for your wonderful advice!


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## madisonfriday

Kayty said:


> Whatever you say :S It'll teach him to 'accept' the bit by grabbing it and holding himself up on the sidereins, and developing some lovely undermuscle because he's got tension through his neck  Go for it, forced frames are all the go in pony club


 i said itll help not the solution - i didnt use anything on my horse and he is turning out fine.


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## ChingazMyBoy

Thanks everyone for your advice, but one quick question. I was wondering if I am doing it right. I will ride him forward with my legs on a large circle and then get him to bend in/out so I can see his eye. Am I meant to be doing this on a circle, I can't think of any other way.


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## madisonfriday

You should be able to do it straight his body straight but his head bent in - you should see his nose.
Hold taught with your outside rein - push with your inside leg and sponge with your inside rein every few strides.


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## ChingazMyBoy

_I had a thought, I'm not saying I'm going to go for it or I'm not going to go for it. As I am unadvanced in building neck muscle I figured, lets find a natural muscle builder to give us a hand. So has any one got any reasons towards/against and any suggestions on one and how much to give him per day? But I also thought, is it possible for neck muscles?_



> We are trying to develop a top line and get some muscle tone on my horse- a great activity I do with him is to lower my hands so they are just above my knees, then bring my hands back so you have just a bit of arch in the horse's neck. Then using your seat push him on and sort of "Into the bit" if that makes any sense.
> 
> This has really helped not only to build a top line on him but to work on his headset too. Just make sure you give him some time to just rest his head so you aren't always holding him in that position.


Someone posted this on Yahoo answers, would it work. Wouldn't it pull on his mouth? (He is quite soft). Has someone already said this and I've just read it wrong.


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## Kayty

You can try using supplements, but hounestly, that's not going to build the muscles you want over the topline. Correct work is the ONLY way you can build those muscles. A feed additive will simply help to LIGHTLY bulk him up, but if you are still riding him with his head stuck up and no hindlegs, there is no way it's going to build that topline. 

As for the above post of dropping your hands and bringing them back. That's called 'pulling a horses head in to fake muscle'. That's going to build up a lovely undermuscled neck with a bit of muscle on top in the wrong places, and a nice weak back. If you want to drop your hands and have your horse's head down, find a GOOD dressage instructor, and work on teaching him how to stretch forward into the contact, not pull him down onto it.


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## ChingazMyBoy

Okay thanks, my instructor did teach me something similar, to get his head down. I bring my wands down to the sides of his neck (without pulling) and he brings his head down.


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## Kayty

If you're not pulling him down and just dropping your hands, no worries! I do that with the youngsters and green horses. It matches the action of side reins or similar and gives a different leverage so the horse finds it easier to work out how to drop it's head. However, you absolutely HAVE to have the horse's back swinging and hind legs working efficiently to be able to build topline, otherwise you'll just build undermuscle if the horses head is in but the hind quarters are a mile out behind it. 
Pulling is a whole other can of fish, It does absolutely nothing to benifit the horse unless you want it to look like a polo pony with an upside down neck and disgusting mouth.


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## ChingazMyBoy

So I want something like this:


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## ohmyitschelle

Good on you for asking for advice, and giving it a go.
Like Anabel and others have said, the only way to get correct muscle a topline, is by correct riding. There are no shortcuts.

A lot of riders seem so focussed on getting their horse "on the bit" ... I used to be one of these riders. It's actually from the back end of a horse that we can engage the animal and work from, in order to achieve a well rounded horse. Like many have said, riding off the leg and engaging the hind will create the activity to harness and allow for bend. Worrying about Chinga's head carriage right now isn't the top prioriety. It's getting that back end swinging and stepping underneath him. It takes months to get a good topline and even longer to have the correct buildup on muscles. I used to think if the head comes down the rest will follow, but a horse's engine or powerhouse is in the back end. 
Exercises such as transitions, variations in speed of pace/gait (ie really slow trot, to a active working trot), and exercise such as figure 8s and serpentines will all help with this.
Please don't get too focussed on using side reins. Although they have their benefits, its through correct riding that you can truly help muscle build.
I hope I'm making sense... it's late at night here and I'm quite tired, lol.


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## MistyMorning

^^ 
Completely agree! 

My mare has a tendency to be on the forehand and lazy, not using her back end and running on with her front. 
I have had to slow everything down, do lots of slow lateral work, get the horse bending and using their whole body, stepping underneath themselves. 

Once they have got the hang of this the rest should start to follow. Its certainly not the quickest or easiest route but it will get the truest results!! 

Good luck!


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## Kayty

Nope, you see hun in the photo's the horse is not stepping under itself and is just leaning on the bit. You want him to pick up his back, have an inside leg that steps right under, and the head set will follow. As said above and many times previously, there's no quick fix. It comes with correct work. Transitions etc etc will all help you.

POSSIBLY employing the use of draw reins for a few rides could help you too, but ONLY if your instructor knows very well how to use them. They can be misused so easily, they're not there to strap a horses head down. 
I used them for a handfull of rides when I took on a VERY green QH x appy mare that was build disgustingly downhill and had a polo pony neck.
A few rides in draw reins really helped her to get the idea of giving to the bit, and because she was happier in front I was able to start giving her the idea of stepping under herself and carrying her back. Lots of people will poo-poo me for saying draw reins, but hounestly, a few good rides in them to give a horse the idea of where you want them can be a blessing. My mare was lovely after just 5 rides and her muscling developed considerably after that.


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## ohmyitschelle

Kayty said:


> Nope, you see hun in the photo's the horse is not stepping under itself and is just leaning on the bit. You want him to pick up his back, have an inside leg that steps right under, and the head set will follow. As said above and many times previously, there's no quick fix. It comes with correct work. Transitions etc etc will all help you.
> 
> *POSSIBLY employing the use of draw reins for a few rides could help you too, but ONLY if your instructor knows very well how to use them. They can be misused so easily, they're not there to strap a horses head down. *
> *I used them for a handfull of rides when I took on a VERY green QH x appy mare that was build disgustingly downhill and had a polo pony neck.*
> *A few rides in draw reins really helped her to get the idea of giving to the bit, and because she was happier in front I was able to start giving her the idea of stepping under herself and carrying her back. Lots of people will poo-poo me for saying draw reins, but hounestly, a few good rides in them to give a horse the idea of where you want them can be a blessing. My mare was lovely after just 5 rides and her muscling developed considerably after that*.


I understand you're being very cautious in suggesting these, but I personally wouldn't even go near draw reins. Only a very experienced rider should use them, and only in circumstance where they are truly needed (in my humble opinion I have yet to experience such a situation, but they do have their place). I really don't think they are a correct tool to use in this kind of situation, as it's very easy to make a horse become inverted from their pressure... it's also important not to teach the horse that mouthing the bit is something bad... I've seen several horses who would lean or grab the bit and run after ill-used attempts with draw reins.

Hope this doesn't sound offensive, like I said, they have their place but you were right with your first paragraph, transitions and simple lateral work will engage the behind. There is no quick fix


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## Kayty

No offence taken, as I said, I expected people to jump on me about it. Hence why most post was very cautious about the OP having a GOOD coach that knows the ins and outs of draw reins and can she the OP how to use them, and then only for a handfull of rides because as you said, they can result in a horse that sicks back from the contact.
However, if used correctly they don't teach a horse that mouthing the bit it bad, Most of the ride they're not even in use, but should the horse throw it's head up and set its jaw on the bit, they give you that slightly more leverage, and it's not a constant 'pull' you can use them as you would normal reins and move them. 
I have seen them have fantastic results, but yes, also some very bad ones. But in 9/10 cases, the bad results were created by a rider deciding to take it upon themself to 'experiment' with this 'contraption' called draw reins to yank the horses head in by hanging off the draw reins and forgetting about the snaffle rein. 

Also, I know you should work a horse back to front, create the power behind and the head will go with it. Yes. However it's a bit of a catch 22. Sometime you'll get a horse that will stick it's head up and evade the bit, and no matter how much you drive it forward, it's just not going to give. In this situation, you're going to have far more control of being able to push the horse back to front when you put a set of draw reins on to get a bit of control in front, and then ride the horse into that. But yes, again, it depends on the rider. Hence the very cautious suggestion as a last measure to the OP. Certainly not recomending that they jump straight onto draw reins, not by any means!! 

But again, as I've stated in MANY of my posts in this thread, correct work is the only way to build topline -NOT jamming it's head in.


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## ChingazMyBoy

Thanks a tonne guys! My trainer wants to use them on the lunge with him (lightly). But she will do the lunging with them, not me. They will be our last option, after Shonel has ridden him and can't see any result after several months. But at least his brung his head down, he use to have it very high in the air, so his brought it down so thats a start.


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## ohmyitschelle

Do you mean side reins whilst lunging? Not draw reins? Lol.

*Kayty* - yes I agree with a lot of what you said, but in most cases draw reins are in the wrong hands, or more importantly, are not needed. Some good solid work and patience from the rider can correct most things without even needing draw reins


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## ChingazMyBoy

Yes I do, sorry. May I ask, what are draw reins? I have heard of them.


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## ohmyitschelle

They run from the girth through the bit and into your hand. I don't like them, but that's my personal preferences.


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## ChingazMyBoy

Thanks, so its similar to a Martingale in a way? But without the neck strap and instead of conecting to your reins it connects straight to the bit. So its kinda the same as over tightening a martingale in a way?


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## Kayty

Nope it doesn't connect to the bit. It runs from the girth, through the bit and to your hands, so it's like rding in a double, and also about as sensitive as riding in a double hence the massive caution about using them  Not really like a martingale at all IMO, You control them so the horse can either have zero contact on them and be ridden just with the normal snaffle rein, or yuo can have full contact and drop the snaffle rein (aka people who have no idea how to use them thus giving them a bad name!!). The one and only horse I have used them on responded extremely well, and I kept zero contact on them and rode 95% of the time in a snaffle. Only when she decided to have a truely deffiant stage did I put any contact on the draw reins. You don't want to put any more pressure on draw reins than you would put on a curb rein. If you put too much pressure you will get a horse with it's head jammed into it's chest. All that is required, is a light feel of the reins, to let the horse know that it's a bit uncomfortable having it's head jammed up and clenching it's jaws aroudn the bit. As soon as it drops it's head you can release the pressure entirely. 

I personally think that in the right hands, they are kinder than weeks of horse and rider fighting about head carriage, with only a handfull of rides this mare was going so kindly, beautifully into the hand and rarely messed aroudn with her head so I was able to put my full attention into having her off my leg. 

And yes you can lunge in draw reins too, you just connect them differently. They're actually much kinder than side reins on a horse that hasn't been lunged with a contact before


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## ohmyitschelle

Not really. Basically because they run through the front of the legs, and come into your hand (a running martingale doesn't come into your hand), you can, in the wrong hands, simply reel your horse in so much that you're forcing it into a frame that is not only ineffective but hurtful. It can also lead to serious injury if the horse was to act up. I've just seen too many "idiots" (for no better term really) think they'll use draw reins and end up flipping a horse or making them inverted. It baffles me as to why time and correct riding is just SO HARD for some riders.


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## Kayty

You saying that because I've found draw reins to do my mare wonders after a handfull of rides then never needed to use them again, I'm not riding correctly? I think these 'gadgets' can be very benifical in the right hands. YES anything can be and is misused, giving it a bad rep. God, I'd much rather pop a horse in a set of draw reins for two rides, have it suddenly understand that throwing it's head above the bit is going to be annoying to it more than the rider and go merrily on it's way happy and not confused anymore, than saying I'm a 'correct' rider because I don't use gadgets and try for months unsuccessfully to get the horse to come ove rit's back, but clearly I'm a 'correct' rider because I'm not using 'gadgets'. Meanwhile the 'incorrect' rider is out there on a beautifully educated horse that totally understands its job and responds to 'comfort and discomfort' rather than having it's head yanked and guts kicked because the rider is 'correct'.
Sorry, big rant there but it does really drive me nuts!!


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## ohmyitschelle

Kayty said:


> You saying that because I've found draw reins to do my mare wonders after a handfull of rides then never needed to use them again, I'm not riding correctly? I think these 'gadgets' can be very benifical in the right hands. YES anything can be and is misused, giving it a bad rep. God, I'd much rather pop a horse in a set of draw reins for two rides, have it suddenly understand that throwing it's head above the bit is going to be annoying to it more than the rider and go merrily on it's way happy and not confused anymore, than saying I'm a 'correct' rider because I don't use gadgets and try for months unsuccessfully to get the horse to come ove rit's back, but clearly I'm a 'correct' rider because I'm not using 'gadgets'. Meanwhile the 'incorrect' rider is out there on a beautifully educated horse that totally understands its job and responds to 'comfort and discomfort' rather than having it's head yanked and guts kicked because the rider is 'correct'.
> Sorry, big rant there but it does really drive me nuts!!


 
No, I was not refering to the riders who use them *correctly*, only those who *do not* have the experience or the correct guidance to use such a gadget Kayty. You completely misread my statement. As I have through this thread, AGREED with you several times, I don't know how you connected my sentence that said "some riders" to all riders who use draw reins. 
The idiot comment was directed at the likes of people I have witnessed myself, wanting a quick fix and hopped aboard their horses (at horse shows!!!) with draw reins on. 
I can be seen as an "incorrect" rider too, as I opted to put my gelding who twists at the jaw in a grackle noseband temporarily... because it helped him understand why twisting wasn't going to help him out... and yet he is easily ridden in a flash now. All gadgets, like you said can be misused.
If I offended you, it was not my intention whatsoever.


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## Kayty

Thanks for explaining, sorry I do get a bit snappy about things like that. It just irritates me that I hear all the time people saying anyone that uses anything other than a snaffle bridle and a saddle is 'incorrect' and wants a 'quick fix' when this is so not the case with riders who understand how to use them. As with your gelding and the grackle noseband, I've found draw reins can be very effective at giving the horse a clearer idea of what the riders wants and thus when you go back to riding with the 'gadget' the horse is so much more confortable in it's work as it lacks that confusion. 

Again, appologies for snappy, I misunderstood and didn't read your reply thoroughly.


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## ohmyitschelle

You're fine, I used to belong to a forum where I got heavily attacked for riding my horse in a flash noseband - because that "wasn't true dressage at all" Lol... horse people are weird.


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## WelcomeStranger28

hahahahaha!! yer they can be rather odd can't they!!

Hey maddie i would use side reins when you lunge too!! Altough you should have him on a lunge rein instead of free!!


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## ChingazMyBoy

Hi Zoe, 

I would only use them on the lunge. But they are a last option. I've disscussed side reins with my trainer in length and we have both agreed that they will be a last option.

Thanks though,

Maddie.


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## ChingazMyBoy

Valentina said:


> Riding correctly since it is using the back that develops the neck muscles. (If the horse just tucks its head the underside of the neck will build up - and dressage wants the crest of the neck - topside - to build up.)
> 
> Ride horse forward off leg into longer reins and encourage the horse to bring it's head low but use reins to bend horse outside then inside. NOT constantly just once quickly outside followed immediately by a quick bend inside and slight push forward into the reins by a light leg.
> 
> When you do the (SLIGHT) bending do NOT make the other rein loose - do when you bend the horse to the outside so you can see the edge of it's eye the inside rein stays at the same length it was pre-bend.
> 
> You should be able to do this at walk trot and canter. If horse is not pulling on reins or throwing head into the air then you should see a slight BULGE in the center of the neck (if he's giving over his back into the reins). If not you're not doing it correctly, if he is and you continue to ride him this way he'll develop the muscles you're talking about.


I'm really having trouble with this, even though I only bend lightly and keep the other rein taught, he just turns?


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## anrz

ChingazMyBoy said:


> I'm really having trouble with this, even though I only bend lightly and keep the other rein taught, he just turns?


Are you using leg, also, to push him 'off' of the bend, so to speak? You can't just use your reins, you need to 'block' him from turning with your leg. A bend goes through the whole horse, if that makes any sense. Just because you can see their eyeball, doesn't mean that he is bent. Again, I'm sorry if I'm making assumptions, but if you AREN'T using leg, you are going to want to start doing so.


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## madisonfriday

again it takes a long long long time... my horses neck still is ugly and skinny I hate looking at it - there were days where it looked really goood but I havent been riding lately with the weather so now its flopped back.

Just keep working him - more riding helps build up muscle you just dont want to build up incorrect muscle.
its great to see before and afters to make sure to take photos!

Again turn the key with inside rein HOLD until he gives...then release.. push him through with inside leg during (maybe every few strides) and allow your outside rein to remain tight to block the action coming in from the inside. But once he does bend and drop his head you need to let go of the pressure on arm and leg its like rewarding him.


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## ChingazMyBoy

Hi.

So I've been _trying_ to build neck muscle in my boy. But I'm having a really hard time with the exersizes, so I figured I'd qoute a few things and ask a few questions and hopefully I will have a better understanding on what I am trying to do with him by the end of this.



> *Ride horse forward off leg into longer reins and encourage the horse to bring it's head low but use reins to bend horse outside then inside*. NOT constantly just once quickly outside followed immediately by a quick bend inside and slight push forward into the reins by a light leg.


How can I encourage him to bring his head down? 



> So start with a shorter rein and get them working their back, so leg, transitions, leg yielding, etc. until the horse starts to work it's back and reach for the rein. Give the reins out a little and if the horse stretches out to reach them (while still carrying itself and not rushing forward or falling on the forehand) you know you're on the right track,


So, I want to get him working and if I can get him working correctly then he should reach for the rein, but I want to start with a shorter rein so its easier for him and so he understands?



> As said many times above, leg leg leg, transitions, circles, figure of 8's, lateral work (leg yield is excellent), hill work etc. Don't hang off his gob, seesaw on the reins etc and you'll be on the right track


Leg yielding, I believe he has never done it, how can I get him to understand that I want him to leg yeild?



> Hold taught with your outside rein - push with your inside leg and sponge with your inside rein every few strides.


Sponge with my inside rein, I really don't understand that? Also that would be to get him to bend out, correct?


These are questions I have from reading threw the whole thread. I'm trying the bending again this afternoon and I will try and get some video fotage. 

Thanks to everyone for their help and patients.


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## ChingazMyBoy

What do you think of this video, I would go to my trainer about this but she is on holidays till January the 3rd and I am going away on January the 4th


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## ChingazMyBoy

Bump! Come on guys, help me out!


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## Kayty

ChingazMyBoy said:


> Hi.
> 
> So I've been _trying_ to build neck muscle in my boy. But I'm having a really hard time with the exersizes, so I figured I'd qoute a few things and ask a few questions and hopefully I will have a better understanding on what I am trying to do with him by the end of this.
> 
> 
> 
> How can I encourage him to bring his head down?
> 
> 
> 
> So, I want to get him working and if I can get him working correctly then he should reach for the rein, but I want to start with a shorter rein so its easier for him and so he understands?
> 
> 
> 
> Leg yielding, I believe he has never done it, how can I get him to understand that I want him to leg yeild?
> 
> 
> 
> Sponge with my inside rein, I really don't understand that? Also that would be to get him to bend out, correct?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are questions I have from reading threw the whole thread. I'm trying the bending again this afternoon and I will try and get some video fotage.
> 
> Thanks to everyone for their help and patients.


 
Ok encouraging him to bring his head down, it was worded a bit wrongly IMO. Yes, getting a horse through is about riding back to front, but when your horse is hanging onto the bit and running with it's head in the air, I find it is so much easier to teach that horse to understand above giving to the rein by dropping the nose. THEN once you can put a bit of rein on and have the horse give, you can think about where the hind legs are and the horse will also be more likely to start coming over it's back as it has an understanding of giving to a contact. 
I attended a clinic recently just as a spectator, and the clinician (a very well respected German trainer) really backed up my opinion that if the horse grabs the bit and runs itself onto the forehand, life is easier if you teach it to give in front first.
He taught this to one particuar horse by halting, then applying light pressure to the bit. The horse backed up, went sideways etc. and he did not move that pressure at all, until the horse stopped and dropped its nose, then the pressure was released immediately. A few goes at this and the horse would drop to a light touch, so he moved onto walk then trot, and each time he took up the reins and put his leg on, the horse would drop the nose and come under itself. The end result was excellent, from a horse that used to run with it's head up, on the forehand and hold the bit, to a horse that was so happy in the mouth, and when the rider put her leg on the horse would immediately bring its hind legs under and a touch of the rein would control this new energy, and you could see with each half halt the croup drop and the back come up. 


As for leg yielding, do you know how to ask for it? If you have done it on another horse that understands how to do it, then you'll find it much easier to train as you'll know the feeling to expect.
Do you have an arena to ride in? If so, take him down the 3/4 line in walk, and get him walking forward in a straight line. Once he's comfortably walking straight, shift your weight slightly to the inside and take your outside rein off the horse's neck (this will indicate to him that you want him to move in that direction, by leaving him an opening of the outside shoulder in which to move towards), while putting your side leg on to push the horse across. A little inside rein will help you to keep the bend. You want him to be bent AWAY from the direction of travel. It is easier to start with if you get him really steady at quite a slow walk. He needs to cross his front and hind legs over, so that he goes slightly sideways and forwards at the same time. 
Once he will leg yield by having the outside rein off his neck, you want to start pushing him across into a contact on the outside rein. So start bringing it closer back to his neck and still expect him to move across from your seat/weight aids. 

Sorry I am terrible at explaining these things over the net! I'll try to find a video. 

Having a contact on the outside rein does NOT make a horse bend out if you know how to effectively control your seat and leg aids. A young horse does not understand the outside rein, as does a green horse in your case. Leg yield will help to give both of you and understanding of riding a horse into the ouside rein. Ideally you want to use your outside rein for half halts, control of speed and direction etc. While the inside rein may be used for finer degrees of bend and flexion, and indicating direction. 

Having an outside rein means that you are 'blocking' the ouside shoulder, thus reducing th 'escape route' a horse may take say through a turn. If you try to turn right for example, and you give your outside rein away and pull with your inside rein, you are going to find that the horse will overbend to the right, block the neck, fall onto either the iside or outside shouder and swings its quarters out.
On a horse that understands the outside rein, turn right with some contact on the outside rein (not a solid grip so that the head cannot move, but just a firm feel) an inside leg, and an outside leg controlling the position of the hindquarters, and the horse will stay upright, not falling onto either shoulder and will maintain a steady bend through it's body throughout the turn. This will come mainly from your weight aids, where you can just drop your hip to the direction you want to do, move your shoulders over and just guide with some inside rein while supporting the shoulders and hindquarters with a little rein and leg.


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## madisonfriday

its hard to explain over the internet...
i tried drawing a photo LOL

Sorry i cant draw hands...









So hold a tight outside rein not too tight but just enough so there isnt really any slack, you wanna be able to see his nose on the inside
with the inside rein turn thekey and HOLD HOLD HOLD while pressing with your inside leg you have to wait even wigggle (sponge) with you inside hand he'll drop his head evenetly and you RElease everything stop pressing your leg and turn the key back to normal riding position im at work and bored can you tell?
here is better example than my drawing lol












he'll soon relize hey when i put my head down she stops kicking me and pulling n my mouth..
this method work for me so its worth a try!

Another excerise I worked with Hero on is leg yeilding its really not hard to do just ride again the rail..
i might have to draw another awful photo if i cant explain but face Chinga on a fence...shift your seat over the opposite way you want him to go, then pressure him with that side of your body (if you want to go right) sit deep left and pressure him with your whole left body and push him, he should step along the rail stepping sideways..his head and neck should also be bending in the oppisite direction (if i remember) then you immediately trot off getting him to bend the other way its good exercise for there neck.


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## anrz

^^ Good advice, but I just want to say to remember to use your body as well as your reins. The horse isn't necessarily bent just because you can see their inside eye. I know that you probably know this already, I just wanted to clarify so people don't misunderstand


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## madisonfriday

oops your right - a horse in frame isnt just its head its the whole body...getting him to move out from the hind end is important before fussing with his head.


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## ChingazMyBoy

madisonfriday said:


> its hard to explain over the internet...
> i tried drawing a photo LOL
> 
> Sorry i cant draw hands...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So hold a tight outside rein not too tight but just enough so there isnt really any slack, you wanna be able to see his nose on the inside
> with the inside rein turn thekey and HOLD HOLD HOLD while pressing with your inside leg you have to wait even wigggle (sponge) with you inside hand he'll drop his head evenetly and you RElease everything stop pressing your leg and turn the key back to normal riding position im at work and bored can you tell?
> here is better example than my drawing lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> he'll soon relize hey when i put my head down she stops kicking me and pulling n my mouth..
> this method work for me so its worth a try!
> 
> Another excerise I worked with Hero on is leg yeilding its really not hard to do just ride again the rail..
> i might have to draw another awful photo if i cant explain but face Chinga on a fence...shift your seat over the opposite way you want him to go, then pressure him with that side of your body (if you want to go right) sit deep left and pressure him with your whole left body and push him, he should step along the rail stepping sideways..his head and neck should also be bending in the oppisite direction (if i remember) then you immediately trot off getting him to bend the other way its good exercise for there neck.



Wow! That is so much clearer now! Thank you!


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## ChingazMyBoy

I got his head down, I got his head down! Thank you so much everyone! I am so happy, he did it really well once he got the idea of it. I will have to get pictures of Wonder Poneh  I think he actually enjoyed riding more. I love this forum, thank - you everyone.


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