# Riding: "You either got it, or you dont" Discussion



## starkon16 (Aug 15, 2011)

Just like the title says. I've spent 7 years riding and throughout those 7 years have seen people who have taken lessons all their life and literally cannot ride properly to save their life, yet I've seen a small handful of others who, like me, have never taken lessons and are some of the best riders I've seen, and both scenarios go vice versa. This had led me to think that riding is like everything else, you either have the talent and natural ability to do it and do it good, or you don't and no matter how much training you have it will only get you so far. What are your opinions on this? This is a discussion so any and all opinions and views are welcome.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I am not sure it will be much of a discussion.

Yes, riding is like every other thing in life.

There are people that it comes naturally to and people that have to work really hard to do an adequate job.

What is there to discuss?


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## Dresden (Jun 24, 2011)

Alwaysbehind said it best.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

starkon16 said:


> yet I've seen a small handful of others who, like me, have never taken lessons and are some of the best riders I've seen


"Like me" ?

So you are considering yourself one of the best riders?

Even the 'best' riders and trainers take lessons, attend clinics and seminars to expand their knowledge and abilites. The world of horses is an infinite ocean of knowledge.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> There are people that it comes naturally to and people that have to work really hard to do an adequate job.


Not to mention,* no one* is so naturally gifted that they can go without some professional instruction to hone their skills, _especially_ someone who thinks they're talented enough to become a trainer.


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

mls said:


> "Like me" ?
> 
> So you are considering yourself one of the best riders?
> 
> Even the 'best' riders and trainers take lessons, attend clinics and seminars to expand their knowledge and abilites. The world of horses is an infinite ocean of knowledge.


Took the words right out of my mouth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

starkon16 said:


> yet I've seen a small handful of others who, like me, have never taken lessons and are some of the best riders I've seen.


What someone calls "great rider" to me may be a beginner not nearly being a "good rider", and who I'd never even let close to my horse. 

You (general you) don't claim yourself being a "great rider" (especially when the person really IS a great rider). The achievements and well-trained horses do.


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

Yes, to some degree there needs to be some raw ability. However raw talent alone will not make a "great rider". 

To be truly great one needs to immerse one's self in learning & training to become better and never stop. I think when you quit trying to better yourself you become a passenger not a rider.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

No, I don't agree. 

The best riders I've ever seen all have years, if not decades, of lessons, studying and mentoring to bring to them to that level. 

And how do you define "best" - by competition results? You won't find very many self taught riders at the higher levels of competition. Training results? I think good trainers have to have input from a variety of different sources and even different disciplines, so I can't think of any really terrific entirely self taught trainers either. 

Certainly I've seen people with natural talent, and learning core skills is easier for them than for folks without it, but I've seen both be types be successful, it's just easier for those with the gift of natural talent. 

The one point of agreement we do have is this:


> seen people who have taken lessons all their life and literally cannot ride properly to save their life


 Yes, I've seen those people too, but my opinion is their problem is one of several things: 1.) anthropormorphization - ascribing human qualities to the horse, rather than learning how a horse thinks and reacts. People who think it's "mean" to discipline a horse, and bring them extra carrots so the horse will like them and take that canter lead; or people who are unwilling to be the boss 2.) poor instruction. Most typical is the negative method - students ride around in a circle and are told "Heels down!" "Don't slouch." "Don't get in his mouth!" but are never shown what they should be doing, given a positive model to emulate or have skills broken down into teachable steps. It's amazing that anyone ever learns to ride under this method and 3.) complete lack of fitness, athletic ability, timing or feel. Rare, but it does happen.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Almost every great sports person (in any sport) still works with a coach. 

I cannot think of one single great rider that I know who would declare themselves as such, as they still know people who ride better than they do.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

AlexS said:


> I cannot think of one single great rider that I know who would declare themselves as such, as they still know people who ride better than they do.


So true. 

The people who usually boast the most about how great their ability to do something are the same people who truly lack that ability.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Plus,_ good_ riders know that they can hardly consider themselves experienced if they've only ever ridden* one* horse. 

Good riders, regardless of whether it's talent or just plain old hard work, know you need to ride different animals with varying degrees of temperament and conformation in order to become well rounded and able to handle more than one horse.

I used to think I was a pretty good rider when I only had one horse. When he died I told people, 'I thought a was a good rider. Turns out, I had a great horse.' :wink:

Anyone who's_ really_ any good hasn't done it alone. They also don't brag about their abilities.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Is this an example of your theory on being a top notch rider?

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding-critique/critique-my-riding-please-95103/#post1137253


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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

I'm sorry, but you must not have seen a lot of good riders if those videos are examples of "the best you have seen". 

Don't get me wrong, they aren't BAD...but certainly not the best. I sometimes think its the cocky attitude of people that get in the way of truly learning to be a better rider.


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## crimsonsky (Feb 18, 2011)

maura said:


> 3.) complete lack of fitness, athletic ability, timing or *feel*. Rare, but it does happen.


this is what i've noticed as having the most impact on how a person progresses with their riding. if you don't have the feel naturally, imo, it's almost impossible to teach. 

totally opinion/experience based so i'm sure there are exceptions. :wink:


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

Some people pick it up easier than others, but I think any person with a good instructor can be a fairly decent rider. 

Its harder than you think to spot a "good" rider. I've seen many riders on these horses and they look wonderful, great position and contact, and the horse goes beautifully. Then I have seen them on one of their friends horses or something and everything falls apart. There are a lot of these "fair weather riders" which are fine when everything goes well, but when things go down hill they can't cope, which I think is the problem with riding schools - they don't (well can't really) teach a rider to actually ride when things go bad. Horses teach riders a lot, not just instructors, my first horse taught me more about actual riding (the sticking on, bolting, shying, control parts) than I think any instructor could.

I've also seen riders who don't have the greatest position or just don't look or that polished, but they can get a horse to go really well for them. 

I think a good instructor can be a benefit to everyone, but there are many poor instructors, especially at the big, factory-esque riding schools.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I've been riding for over 40 years and competing for nearly that long and I still take 3 lessons a week and learn something from every one of them. 

Just as with anything there are people who have 7 years of experience at something and have improved a lot during that time and then there are people who have 1 year of experience 7 times during that same 7 years and they'll never move past it. And for most of them, it really doesn't affect their enjoyment of riding.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

I've been riding a long time and done lots of things....but I still have plenty to learn. I will clinic with coaches, when given a chance. NO ONE is too good to be coached. I guess that is why it is so important to have an Olympic coach...don't ya know....

I am sorry you feel you have nothing to gain from an experienced "eye".


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I started riding at 50. I have never been a natural athlete in anything, and 40 years of jogging 3-5 miles/day left my legs & hips tight in all the places that need to be loose for riding.

Will I ever be a great rider? No. I'm jealous sometimes of those who started young, have lots of natural ability, etc. I often feel like I'm working 10 times harder just to progress at 10% of the rate anyone else makes.

But you wrote, "This had led me to think that riding is like everything else, you either have the talent and natural ability to do it and do it good, or you don't and no matter how much training you have it will only get you so far."

I'm guessing you are young, because with age you realize that many with tons of natural ability never achieve squat because they don't work hard enough. Anyone in a physical sport knows that their body will limit their upward progress. At 5'8" & poor depth perception, I was NEVER going to dominate the NBA. 40 years of running has proven I will never break the 5 minute mile, let alone the 4 minute one.

But hard work, determination & the willingness to admit how much you do not know is about 90 percent of achievement. Not at the elite levels - I'll never win anything in cutting, reining, jumping or dressage no matter how hard I try. But after 3+ years of riding, I can already say I don't fit in this: "literally cannot ride properly to save their life".

And some of the work has helped me in ways a natural won't know. It took me 2+ years to sit the trot as well as my 25 year old daughter in law did after 2 lessons, but along the way I learned WHY some people have problems sitting the trot. Having legs like pine boards has taught me the value of a loose leg. Since I was a new rider on a green & spooky horse, I learned WHY some folks ride defensively, and why that may be right for them until their body gets in better shape. Same with things like toe position, leg position, shoulder position - I think I've done everything wrong, and the conscious effort to overcome these faults have made me conscious of some of the reasons why others do the same things.

If an instructor shouts, "Shoulders back" a few hundred times without the student 'learning', then either the student is just incredibly stupid, or there is a reason why the student isn't able to do it. And while I don't know all the reasons for it, I now know why I did it and why being told "Shoulders back" didn't help me.

No, I will never be a great rider. At my rate, my horses and I will likely die of old age before I become an OK rider. But for some of us, the struggle is the reason.

There are two things that fascinate me about riding. One is my stubborn, dominant, spooky mare. There are times I feel like shooting her, but the quest to learn how to ride and work with her is infinitely more interesting than getting on a trail ride concessionaire horse and being carried like a sack of potatoes along a trail. The second is my total ineptitude at riding. No "Feed a Black Stallion seaweed and 3 minutes later be galloping along the beach" for me!

Yes, there are 12 year old girls who can get on a horse and outride me within a week. I don't envy them. They won't ever puzzle over the posts of folks like Speed Racer, Alwaysbehind, Allison Finch and many others here in a near futile attempt to understand why their riding sucks. But neither will they know the joy when you finally catch on, and months of frustrated struggle becomes achievement. They are like someone born to wealth, who finds money meaningless. For many of us, it isn't about being great. It is about being our best. There is a huge difference...:wink:


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Bravissimi BSMS! I'm 54 and still competing and riding. And I have another insight for you, after 50 ain't nobody a natural at nothin'! I was one of those "natural rider" kids and as I've gotten older and the arthritis from all the falls and injuries has set in I've found that the most natural position I have is when I'm sitting on my mounting block staring up at the horse I WISH I could mount without help. 

You absolutely can too be a winner at cutting, reining, dressage or hunt seat. You may not make it to Prix St. George or Puissance Wall competitions, but for your level of ability and desire, you can compete and you can win. 

Another little secret that I'll share is, as a kid I never understood what "Ride for the ride not the ribbon." meant. I do now. I ride for the best ride I can have on that day at that moment with that horse. As long as I see improvement over the previous ride, I'm good with whatever our place in the class is, be it 1st or last, not a problem. I'm actually getting my money's worth out of every class I show in, NOW, because I learn something new each time. I'm no longer riding for the ribbon and I lost my show nerves somewhere along the way too.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Bravissimi BSMS! I'm 54 and still competing and riding. And I have another insight for you, after 50 ain't nobody a natural at nothin'! I was one of those "natural rider" kids and as I've gotten older and the arthritis from all the falls and injuries has set in I've found that the most natural position I have is when I'm sitting on my mounting block staring up at the horse I WISH I could mount without help.
> 
> .



I was never a natural rider, I do seem to have natural balance on a horse, which is hilarious since I have zero when I am on my own 2 feet, but the rest of this post, OH yes:lol::lol:

I kept leading Bert up to the block last night, and not getting on, DH asked if she was being difficult, I had to admit she was being fine, but I was trying to loosen up enough that I thought I would be able to sling my leg right over her, and not run into her half way up.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

If someone has been taking lessons a long time and still isn't very good, it's probably because they have a bad instructor... or they taught themselves and never learned any better.


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## brackenbramley (May 29, 2011)

OP If you have never had lessons then how do u have any idea of the standard your at??? We must let the olympic teams know they are wasting there time. Sorry but bit of an arrogant post!


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## Jamzimm101987 (Aug 11, 2011)

I truly believe that those riders who are great riders, trainers, instructors, and friends are those people who are dedicated to what they are do. They are the ones who are at the barn riding when it is 20 below outside or the ones who have a bad cold, but deal with it because their customers or training projects are important. 

Lets face it, riding is hard; plain and simple. I have ridden many different horses and I still have my struggles. I believe the talented person is the one who puts countless hours towards their goal. The one who listens to everyone's advice (no matter how wrong or right you think the person is).


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## IslandWave (Nov 25, 2009)

starkon16 said:


> Just like the title says. I've spent 7 years riding and throughout those 7 years have seen people who have taken lessons all their life and literally cannot ride properly to save their life, yet I've seen a small handful of others who, like me, have never taken lessons and are some of the best riders I've seen, and both scenarios go vice versa. This had led me to think that riding is like everything else, you either have the talent and natural ability to do it and do it good, or you don't and no matter how much training you have it will only get you so far. What are your opinions on this? This is a discussion so any and all opinions and views are welcome.


I have come to believe that it has more to do about if you have the PASSION for working with horses rather than your natural ability or lack of it.

I've known many a talented young person sit on a horse and have natural feel, good balance, and timing. I've watched them after a few rides be up to where I was after 5 years in the saddle. And then I've watched them get out of riding after a year or so, never to return to it.

Riding and training does not come naturally to me. I would not go so far as to say that I don't have any feel, but all that I know, I have been taught or have learned from trial and error. But I WANT IT. I WANT to be good at this business of horse training. I will fight against what my body naturally wants to do to achieve this. I will leave everything and everyone I know (my own horse included) to pursue this passion of mine.

So no, I don't believe it's all about whether "you've got it or you don't." It's about your drive to do this. It what makes people be perfectly happy hacking out once a month while another group of people may ride for the adrenaline rish of XC and yet others can doing a reining pattern with invisivle cues, etc. No matter what your goal, your passion for it and horses is what pushes you to achieve it. 

Great topic!


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

bsms said:


> They won't ever puzzle over the posts of folks like Speed Racer, Alwaysbehind, Allison Finch and many others here in a near futile attempt to understand why their riding sucks. *But neither will they know the joy when you finally catch on, and months of frustrated struggle becomes achievement. *They are like someone born to wealth, who finds money meaningless. For many of us, it isn't about being great. It is about being our best. There is a huge difference...:wink:



Ahhhh....but I DO get to know that feeling. I have several 50+students who struggle that way, too. I get that WONDERFUL burst of excitement when I see them overcome some big obstacle. I take huge pleasure in helping them do this. I am the result of my coaches hard work and I owe them big time. I repay them every time I teach and use THEIR wisdom to help my students. A student becoming comfortable galloping their horse for the first time is every bit as exciting to me as it is to them.

I am not more able than other people...I was just luckier to have the opportunities that I did.

I have a fairly new student. A 50+ who used to be a good rider. She suffered a major head injury and is just now trying to get back to riding. Due to equilibrium problems, she fell last year shattering her pelvis. She has three wonderful horses. Today, after her third lesson with me she trotted for the first time in a year. I was so excited I was beside myself. We will go slowly and I am lucky enough to share her exhilaration for everything SHE achieves.


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

I'll be the first to admit that I have no talent for riding whatsoever. It took me years to learn what most people pick up in six months. There was a time when I was taking lessons regularly and was working my butt off, but I just didn't have the gift. 

It's just like anything else in life. You're either good at it or you're not.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

^^ You make an excellent point. Even those who learned early and had lots of natural ability can, by teaching, know the thrill when a student succeeds.

I'm surprised at the idea that natural ability trumps all. Maybe in a Disney film, where the girl is fated to win competition XX on the horse no one else could ride, but not in reality. For 99.9% of humans, success is a team effort. For riding, it requires a student's heart & mind, a teacher who cares and helps, and the horses who pull us outside of ourselves.

The last is what caught my interest in riding. I thought it was a lot like riding a dirt bike. Learn the skills and apply them. Then I met Mia. Mia is not a dirt bike. I may ride her. I may guide her. But I can never just 'use' her - she won't allow it.

When you realize riding isn't about applying Aid A in Spot B, but getting a sentient being to be your partner, a whole new world opens up. It isn't about riding, but learning to dance. It isn't about dominating, but cooperating. It is about getting 1000 lbs of muscle to trust you and use its mind and abilities to work on a common goal. And each new horse is a new world to explore.

I can't believe any truly good rider believes he is doing it by his natural gifts alone. If you are a truly good rider, you are never alone in the saddle. You have your horse, and every friend or teacher that has taught you riding with you!


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## Eliz (Jun 16, 2010)

I just don't compare myself to people. I'll think "Oh, I'm really improving and going great!" Then, I'll look at the next person and get humbled REALLY quickly. I try not to do that anymore. I'm out to better my riding, not ride like other people.

When I first started jumping, I group lessoned with a 13 year old girl. She had sat on a horse for the first time ONE year ago, and was already jumping ahead of me. I had been riding horses 13 years (no lessons, granted) but she is definitely a talented little rider.

I think you can have natural talent to give you a leg up, but that doesn't mean you can't ride well without it, given that you have correct instruction and are willing to work at it. Being a natural does not mean that you don't have to work hard at it, though. That's for **** sure.

I respect both riders with natural talent, and the ones that are just scraping by and working their butts off.

The moment you stop being humble is the moment you fail, IMO.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

This topic hits a little close to home for me- I've been back riding seriously (1-2 lessons/week and riding 4-5 times total/week) for just about a year now, and I'm honestly not sure I'm improving. I've been thinking a lot lately about why.



IslandWave said:


> I have come to believe that it has more to do about if you have the PASSION for working with horses rather than your natural ability or lack of it.


The thing is, I feel like I have this nailed- I'm a financially independent adult and want nothing more than to throw myself into horses completely. The passion piece isn't missing. I think about riding all day at work and can't wait to get to the barn. Yet, I still just don't feel like I'm all that much better a rider than I was a year ago. I'm a really competitive, perfectionist type and while I'm a serious and hard worker, I'm also lucky that so many things in life that are challenging for others have come easily for me. I'm willing to put in the time and work to develop as a rider, hang around the barn learning as much as I can, but I don't see the sort of progress I expect. So, I don't know...maybe I just really _don't _have enough natural ability to improve at this sport? It's a sobering thought to imagine that dedication, admiration for horses, openness to learning new things, willingness to take instruction from a good trainer just might not be enough...Hmmm...


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## Eliz (Jun 16, 2010)

Oh, and I definitely second the passion thing. If you want it that bad, you'll find a way to get it whether you have natural ability or none at all.


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## jrcci (Apr 28, 2011)

i started riding when i was 4 years old. the trainers said that i was a natural. but i dont feel like i am. i always always always have something to work on with riding. once i fix one thing... something else gets messed up. you can never be a perfect rider. you might pick it up fast... but that by far does not make you the best rider.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Don't forget that what defines a "great rider" is a subjective value judgment.

If you saw me ride and judged it by "textbook" riding, you would likely laugh and make fun of me.

But I've been riding for 54 years, have ridden hundreds of horses, have broken and trained around 100 horse I bred, have ridden endurance over terrain in the Rockies that most people wouldn't even try to negotiate, and have never - never - lost my seat or injured a horse.

So am I a poor rider, or something more? Or possibly something less?

I have laughed many times at classic riders trying in vain to negotiate endurance riding in rugged terrain, just as they would laugh at me if I rode one of my horses into an arena.

It is all relative and I think many people are a bit quick to judge - basing that judgment on a very limited universe, when there is actually a big world out there.

Just saying...


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

egrogan said:


> This topic hits a little close to home for me- I've been back riding seriously (1-2 lessons/week and riding 4-5 times total/week) for just about a year now, and I'm honestly not sure I'm improving. I've been thinking a lot lately about why...


What follows may have NOTHING to do with you. It is about me, and my riding.

I've now been riding 3 1/2 years. For someone who owns horses and has them in his backyard, and who rides regularly, my progress has been abysmal.

From the beginning, I've been serious about becoming a good rider. But I've faced some problems...

My body was very stiff, and I didn't realize HOW stiff, or how it affected my riding. It was only at the end of July when I was trotting on Trooper that I wiggled a bit, got my heels under my hip...and suddenly, my shoulders followed and my sitting trot made a quantum leap forward. From the time I started lengthening my stirrups and trying to stretch my legs down, it took me 7 full months of riding.

It would have helped if an instructor had said, "Your shoulders are forward because your legs are forward, and your legs are forward because your hips and thighs are too tight to allow them to come back without tension - which only tightens things more. Here are some stretches you can try, but expect it to take months..."

Many physical skills require the subconscious to control things. Your conscious mind cannot direct your body's muscles to do what they need to do in the time available. In martial arts, I think the main debate is if it takes 1000 correct repetitions or 5000 correct ones to create a new 'muscle memory'.

Sometimes you can trick your muscles. I couldn't get myself to relax during a sitting trot until one day I simply kept doing it until exhaustion made my body relax.

Lots of times, there are no tricks.

Add in the fact that many things are inter-related, and it is natural and normal to hit plateaus that last for months. 

Sometimes a change can jar us out of the rut. A change from English to Western in saddles, or a different horse. I rode English saddles defensively. That isn't surprising...riding Mia can make one defensive, and English saddles don't offer a new rider much protection. When I bought an Australian style stock saddle, the seat remained very English like, but it was much deeper than my Bates jump saddle and had Mickey Mouse ears (poleys) on the front to help me if Mia decided to do an emergency stop on her own.

A later switch to riding in a Western saddle gave me a different perspective, and some of what I learned there still applies in a jump saddle.

Gotta leave the house for a bit, but plateaus are normal. It doesn't mean you WON'T progress. You may need time. You may need a change in horse or instructor or environment.

Someone with a ton of natural ability will not experience those same plateaus. A flexible 14 year old girl won't face the same problems my 50+ year old male body faced. And some plateaus will be permanent. I spent years lifting weights, but I reached a point where I wasn't getting stronger and had neither the time nor the desire to push past that point.

But after a year of riding? You haven't peaked. You've just flattened out for a time. If you desire to ride, you will make progress again.


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## IslandWave (Nov 25, 2009)

bsms said:


> I can't believe any truly good rider believes he is doing it by his natural gifts alone. If you are a truly good rider, you are never alone in the saddle. You have your horse, and every friend or teacher that has taught you riding with you!


Very true! I didn't think about this in my first post, but good riding isn't made by the rider and his/her passion alone. It takes a team of a horse that matches the rider and a trainer that matches both the rider and horse. If you have one missing element, your progress will most likely be slower.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

egrogan said:


> This topic hits a little close to home for me-
> 
> 
> Yet, I still just don't feel like I'm all that much better a rider than I was a year ago. I'm a really competitive, perfectionist type and while I'm a serious and hard worker, .........
> ...


This right here is telling me what I think is holding you back. You're comparing yourself to perfection and expecting it in approximately 1 year. You'll start to progress (or see yourself progressing) when you stop being so demanding and harsh with yourself. 

It's taken me years to learn that every ride is a good ride as long as I improve even 1 tiny thing. The whole picture will come together in time but sometimes it's in very small steps and pieces. I've been riding for close to 50 years and I still learn every day and every lesson. 

I got a new Western Pleasure horse back in April and showed him in May. Each class went better than the 1st one but we didn't set any world records for spectacular performance. That's ok. I kept riding him 3 days/week in lessons and just got home from another show. Every ride has been an improvement in some area and this show went well from the start. Again, I don't feel like we set the world on fire with our performance but we DID accomplish 2 things that make me very happy with our progress. We finished qualifying for the US National Championships next month and for the first time ever, I felt like I had a willing partner in the arena with me during that last class. THAT WAS HUGE! I met this horse in Dec and thought he was everything I wanted except that he was still intact and had a well deserved reputation as a PIG and an angry stallion. I made the sales deal with the stipulation he be gelded. I then took him to my trainer and we discovered that this horse had no steering (?how in Hades do you show a horse that you can't turn???) and no idea of collection. It's taken since Feb with me riding 3X/week consistantly to feel like he has finally decided to come to the party. 

Little steps.....both human and equine and the job gets done. Stick with the riding and practice and come back and tell me how you feel in 5 years. One year is just a very short time to practice on reaching perfection. I bet if you saw a video of your first ride 1 year ago and your latest ride last week or this week, you'd see someone who has progressed a lot, just not maybe in all the directions you think you need to. I'm going to repeat to you what I've been told all my life and only recently started to truly understand. Ride for the ride, not the ribbon. Don't look at other people and what or how they do, you are not them, you are you and uniquely so with your own set of unique abilities and issues. Just work on improving YOU and I think you'll be a lot more satisfied.


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

One of the things I learned in art school was that talent only made it easier to get through the door. The rest was hard work, time, and an open willing mind.
Riding is like that. Sure there folks that have a natural seat, but to develop any true skill takes time in the saddle, a lot of hard work, and a willingness to listen, adapt, change, and learn.


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

After twenty-years of riding, my equitation is and has always been rubbish (c.f. all the pics of me on my horse in her profile). I quit showing dressage years ago, as my riding only got worse under the pressure of a dressage test, but I still love doing the movements and improving them for their own sake in the privacy of my (livery yard's) own arena. That horse is the best teacher, ever. You don't have to be Olympic material to ride her (luckily!) but you have to be balanced, loose, and fluid, or no amount of leg, whip, and pleading in the world will get her in front of the leg. Clever girl. 

I'm definitely in the class of a crap rider who has a good horse.


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## Dresden (Jun 24, 2011)

Faceman said:


> Don't forget that what defines a "great rider" is a subjective value judgement...


THIS!!

I saw a girl place at a horse show this weekend who was leaned so far back in the saddle (western) her head was past the saddle. I thought it looked awful. 3 judges disagreed with me. Subjective.

And honestly, outside the show ring, if a person can stay on and not hurt themselves or their horse...and both are enjoying themselves...does it matter how "good" a rider they are? I've been thinking about this a lot lately because I'm not near as good now as I was as a teenager and I am super hard on myself about it. I've been trying to convince myself I don't have to be the best to enjoy my horse...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## starkon16 (Aug 15, 2011)

I should have worded that better. I didn't mean to categorize myself like that, yes I'm a decent rider but not the best and certainly could do with a few lessons. But I wanted your opinions on wether or not you have seen what I'm talking about as mentioned in the OP.  No hard feelings, it was my fault for not wording my OP better.


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## Calmwaters (Aug 24, 2011)

I use to think I was a good rider 10 years ago but then I decided to try to ride an English saddle and boy did I find out I was good for the way I use to ride but now its a definate learning experiance thats hard work that I love every minute of.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Dresden, as long as you're not hurting yourself or the horse I don't see why it's an issue, especially since you're riding for your own pleasure and not expecting to hit it big in the show ring.

However, someone who thinks they're good enough to become a trainer without ever having had the benefit of a professional themselves, _has_ to be running more on arrogance and braggadocio than actual skill.

How can you train the finer points if you don't have a clue what they are? Anyone with good balance can get up on a horse and go charging around. Doesn't make them qualified to train anyone or anything else.

Talent is only_ part_ of the equation. I was told by a trainer early on in my riding career that I advanced faster than she did when she was a newbie rider. That made me feel good, but it didn't lead me to believe I was better than her. She knew her stuff, and knew how to bring out the best in both me and the horse.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

When you say it comes easy to you, are you talking balance and control?


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

It's like anything else really, isn't it? Music, rock-climbing, writing, underwater-basket weaving, math, whatever. Some people have an easier time with the initial learning curve than others. That's all it is. If you *like* doing whatever it is, you'll keep at it even if you're not one of the people who picks it up easily, whereas if you don't like it, you'll conclude "This is hard and I suck at it" and do something else. At the end, wisdom, experience, and hard work count for more than raw talent.


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## Daisy25 (May 29, 2011)

LOL!

Yes, I will say we all have an innate ability at something...whether it be riding or singing or math or poetry. But without dedication, training, and TONS of practice, that natural gift never comes to it's full fruition.

OTOH - in today's ecomony, trainers are looking for steady income just like everybody else. I think you should take it with a grain of salt when you hear that you or your child has "natural ability" and "should stick with it".


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Daisy25 said:


> OTOH - in today's ecomony, trainers are looking for steady income just like everybody else. I think you should take it with a grain of salt when you hear that you or your child has "natural ability" and "should stick with it".


A crappy trainer will for sure say something like that. A good, honest one will tell you what you_ need_ to hear, not what you WANT to hear. :wink:

I started riding many moons ago when dinosaurs roamed the earth and my first mount was a velociraptor, so I'm an old fossil of a rider now, not some young greenbean who needs to be stroked and cooed over.


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

Speed Racer said:


> I started riding many moons ago when dinosaurs roamed the earth and my first mount was a velociraptor, so I'm an old fossil of a rider now, not some young greenbean who needs to be stroked and cooed over.


That's a lovely visual SR  

I can relate but my mentor was the velociraptor....my mother :shock:


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

I totally hearted the raptors. They were great mounts, but you had to stay away from their teeth and back legs. Those itty bitty front legs though, couldn't reach you. :thumbsup:


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## Calmwaters (Aug 24, 2011)

LOL You guys are funny.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> A crappy trainer will for sure say something like that. A good, honest one will tell you what you_ need_ to hear, not what you WANT to hear. :wink:
> 
> I started riding many moons ago when dinosaurs roamed the earth and my first mount was a velociraptor, so I'm an old fossil of a rider now, not some young greenbean who needs to be stroked and cooed over.


 
I SOOO relate to this!


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

I never rode velociraptors, but several of the horses I rode as a child still had three toes. I'm fond of saying that when I started riding, George Morris and I were both young and boot garters and plaid ratcatcher shirts were still in style.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Speed, I never saw your rapter.....but that T-rex you were showing was a real stunner!!


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

He was quite fetching, wasn't he? 

Such a sweetie, as long as you didn't walk around in front of him at feeding time. 

The raptors were smaller and faster, but nothing says 'power' like riding a T-Rex.


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## AKBarbWire (Aug 6, 2009)

Interesting & fun thread, I read *almost* all 6 pages. 

I think one has to ask themselves what makes a good rider? Is it winning competitions? And which competitions make the best riders? Is a dressage rider better than a hunter/cutter/reiner?

A couple pages back someone mentioned a person who looked like crap and won at a show. What was being judged, the rider or horse? I know someone who looks absolutely ridiculous riding, head bobbing blah blah blah, but she shows A rated and cleans up because she knows how to get the best from her hunters and make them shine. 

But do I consider that the pinnacle? 

Short answer, nope. 

Passion, I agree helps, natural talent is good to have, the willingness to be taught other ways. I have always been an efficient rider, soft hands, been pretty brave I suppose according to folks who don't venture very far or try new things. But I am always looking for the next thing to try and keeping my horizons open. 

The other day I learned something. My friends little girl has been in lessons since she was 3. She has always had the best trainers & horses for her level. She is a beautiful little rider. The one thing she missed out on is FUN. They started having behavioral issues with the new pony and scared the kid (parents are nonhorsie). This NH trainer came in and started working with her and she has found her passion again as a 14 year old. She has found confidence and a bit of playfulness which was missing in the "lesson" world. Good for her, they thought the horse days were done. Maybe the parents wished a little of that too, though! 

Everyone seems to have their own agenda for riding horses, some do it to win, some to get places their own feet can't take them, some ride very business-like all work, some ride to get their therapy... Millions of reasons really. What's it to me if someone wants to spend years in lessons but maybe their physical/confidence will never get better? Who am I to judge what their point is? The reality is it isn't my journey, none of my darn business. 

Of course this is coming from a 45 year olds perspective, not 16 or 17 when one upping my neighbor is all so important.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Allison Finch said:


> Speed, I never saw your rapter.....but that T-rex you were showing was a real stunner!!


Is that Sarah Palin?


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## AKBarbWire (Aug 6, 2009)

You betcha!


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## LetAGrlShowU (Mar 25, 2009)

farmpony84 said:


> Is that Sarah Palin?


 hahahahahaha


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

egrogan said:


> This topic hits a little close to home for me- I've been back riding seriously (1-2 lessons/week and riding 4-5 times total/week) for just about a year now, and I'm honestly not sure I'm improving. I've been thinking a lot lately about why.


Year is still a very short period of time. :wink: Plus can be other things on top of it: saddle doesn't put you in right position, training approach should be different, etc. 

I truly believe everyone can learn how to ride if you have a will for it and ready to work hard. If one can go to the higher levels of competing is the whole different story, but w/t/c and even showing on lower levels - why not? I see people with disabilities can do wonder on horse, and remember the story of mentally disabled kid who still was able to show and win in western circle.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

farmpony84 said:


> Is that Sarah Palin?


Yeah....Joe Sixpack tacked that T-Rex up for her.............


BTW, Speed...I would vote for YOU!!!


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

He has to be about 30 hands or so at the withers...I'll bet she can see Russia from way up there. Looks like his teeth need floating to me - quite a few points there...


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

He sure does Face! Might need a die grinder for those bad boys!


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

kitten_Val said:


> Year is still a very short period of time. :wink:


Of course, I definitely agree with this! That's why my recent thoughts have been about improvement from where I started, not being a top-class rider in just 365 days  I guess I'm personally feeling like I'm at a plateau, and can't see a good plan for getting over it right now. I'm _not_ showing, etc., just riding for pleasure on a horse that's not mine, so right now my goals are pretty modest. Yet, I don't _feel_ the improvement week-to-week, and that's what's got me a bit down. 

Maybe this should be another thread, but as I've been thinking through this lately, I've wondered if it's because I don't have a particular date/goal to work towards (i.e., I don't have a show on Sept. 25th that I'm getting ready for, or a horse that needs to be capable of x moves at x time for x reason). If you are also an adult without aspirations of showing and without your horse, what motivates you? How do you set goals for improvement that help you monitor your progress while also keeping riding fun and interesting? I'd love to hear about other folks' experiences.


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## BFFofHorses (Jan 29, 2010)

I just read all 7 pages, and liked several posts. I'm only 16, and while yes, I have beeen riding my whole life, and yes, I'm told I have natural ability or whatever they call it, that does not make me a good rider. It takes years and years to become a good rider. It takes work and passion- not just for riding but, IMO, everything about horses. That includes mucking stalls  I have lost one horse to a broken leg, and am now selling all of the family horses because of situations in my family. But you know what? The heartbreak teaches you. The times you smack you butt on the ground teach you. Every horses you ride teaches you. Give me someone who has ridden for 20-50 years, fell off 20-50 or more times, and had horses break there heart and possibly and arm or leg or hip and if they are still riding, still humble, and still learning more every day- AT is a good rider.
EDIT- love the T Rex btw


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## goneriding (Jun 6, 2011)

Allison Finch said:


> Speed, I never saw your rapter.....but that T-rex you were showing was a real stunner!!


 
Wow, for a second I thought she looks like Sarah Palin.


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## goneriding (Jun 6, 2011)

goneriding said:


> Wow, for a second I thought she looks like Sarah Palin.


I missed the Sarah Palin quote from the previous page.....I'm not copying


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Allison Finch said:


> BTW, Speed...I would vote for YOU!!!


Awww, thanks Allison, but I don't want the job. I can't imagine why anyone wants to rule the world. There are _people_ in it! :shock: :wink:


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Speed, speed, talk about a missed opportunity. 

If you ruled the world, you could keep the stupid people from breeding and making more.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Hmmm, that's a thought, Maura. :think:

Intelligence testing at intervals of 5, 7, 9, and 11 years of age. If they're not up to snuff, they get spayed/neutered! 

Their sire and dam get spayed/neutered too, because apparently their genetic pairing is inferior.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Laugh!

Can you toss a line in there about mandatory spaying if you have been found guilty of going out partying and leaving your three kids under the age of five home alone?


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I understand this is light-hearted fun, but it is worth remembering that many countries, including the USA, practiced forced sterilizations for the mentally retarded.

Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., writing for the majority in Buck v. Bell, said:

"The judgment finds the facts that have been recited, and that Carrie Buck 'is the probable potential parent of socially inadequate offspring, likewise afflicted, that she may be sexually sterilized without detriment to her general health, and that her welfare and that of society will be promoted by her sterilization,' and thereupon makes the order. In view of the general declarations of the legislature and the specific findings of the Court, obviously we cannot say as matter of law that the grounds do not exist, and, if they exist, they justify the result. *We have seen more than once that the public welfare may call upon the best citizens for their lives. It would be strange if it could not call upon those who already sap the strength of the State for these lesser sacrifices, often not felt to be such by those concerned, in order to prevent our being swamped with incompetence. It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind.* The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes. _Jacobson v. Massachusetts,_ 197 U. S. 11. *Three generations of imbeciles are enough*."

:shock: :shock: :shock:

BUCK V. BELL, 274 U. S. 200 :: Volume 274 :: 1927 :: Full Text :: US Supreme Court Cases from Justia & Oyez


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Someone I know had her son get a vasectomy. He will never be mentally over the level of a 5 or 6 yo (he is in his mid 20s). He is not able to make a decision regarding that on his own but he is sexually mature physically. He has a 'girlfriend' who is very similar to him (he sees her at 'school' ever day).

Though he is well supervised they thought it best to not worth the risk leaving him with the ability to get someone pregnant.

How is this wrong?

(Though we are not even close to be on subject here.)


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

How did I *know* someone was going to post that? :?

I _almost_ put a disclaimer on my original post stating it was a joke, but figured that would have been overkill and insulting to people's intelligence. Guess I figured wrong.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I was joking around too, though the post right above is factual and not joking.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> How did I *know* someone was going to post that? :?
> 
> I _almost_ put a disclaimer on my original post stating it was a joke, but figured that would have been overkill and insulting to people's intelligence. Guess I figured wrong.


Since I started the post with "I understand this is light-hearted fun...", I obviously didn't misunderstand your intent. I almost replied in kind, but then I realized that I felt uncomfortable with joking about this subject. So after I pointed out your intentions were fine, I posted what made me uncomfortable. It probably reflects having re-watched "Judgment at Nuremberg" recently. Excellent movie if any have missed it:

Amazon.com: Judgment at Nuremberg: Spencer Tracy, Burt Lancaster, Richard Widmark, Marlene Dietrich, Maximilian Schell, Judy Garland, Montgomery Clift, Ed Binns, Werner Klemperer, Torben Meyer, Martin Brandt, William Shatner, Kenneth MacKenna, Alan B



Alwaysbehind said:


> ...Though he is well supervised they thought it best to not worth the risk leaving him with the ability to get someone pregnant.
> 
> How is this wrong?
> 
> (Though we are not even close to be on subject here.)


Well off topic, but I distinguish between those things a parent does for the health and welfare of a child, including informed consent for those who cannot give informed consent, and acts of governments. 

I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone or jump into politics. It's just is a subject that I feel queasy joking about...YMMV.


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