# What makes a 'strong' horse or pony?



## Finalcanter (Apr 15, 2013)

Is it just a horse that has too much go? Is it a horse that just doesn't respond to cues to slow down? And is it a personality or training issue? 

If any of the above is correct, i've ridden quite a few of them and I can't for the life of me cue them to 'chill out' but circling them. These horses really opened up my eyes about how useless bits can be because half of the time said horses are dead in the mouth/ignore any resistance nor seat cues. I'm riding literal freight trains at times. 

Some listen to spoken voice though, and I can only infer sometimes strong horses are just really tense horses. But is there not much to do but circle-mania? I ride lesson horses so I can't change anything, but i'm just curious in general what could be done, for any horse.


----------



## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

"Strong" is such an unspecific term. Does the horse pull? Does the horse just not listen well to the bit? Is it too keen to jump/run? Does it take off?

My mare doesn't listen very well to the bit when she's over-keen but will halt from gallop in a few strides with just a loud exhale. Is she strong? Not as far as I'm concerned. I can still stop her, safely, without having to haul on her. I strictly ride her in a snaffle. 

Circling does not work. People always say it does but I've had multiple "strong" horses (strong for differing reasons) and not a single one has responded to circling by slowing down.

A strong horse is not a safe lesson horse. Sorry, not sorry. If it doesn't stop easily, it isn't safe.

"Strong" in most contexts means that the horse doesn't stop easily. I know one person who uses it to mean "the horse pulls" but usually it's about stopping.

It is usually training. I have a very hot, very sensitive OTTB who had absolutely no understanding of bit and rein cues when I started working with her. I have since retrained her, but if you pull her mouth in a gallop, she'll lean into you and go faster, because (here at least) most racehorses are trained that way. Doesn't make her strong, though; like I said she'll halt in a few strides if I ask the right way. So what did I do? 
I remouthed her. Mouthing is the process of teaching a horse what the bit is for. Remouthing is repeating that training, as a reminder. You do this on the ground to start with, and then once they're good and consistent you do it from their backs, starting in walk. Only once they're consistent with stop, go, turn, and reinback do you trot, and only once you have a nice consistent trot to halt do you canter. It takes... about a week, with most horses? It's really not that difficult if you have timing and feel.

As part of remouthing I teach flex to halt/one rein stop. I feel it's important to be able to safely stop a horse with only one rein, because what happens if one of yours breaks?! 

So if remouthing has not worked to break the horse of being strong, you would then one rein stop it. Do this carefully in a controlled area as they CAN and some WILL gallop with their nose on your boot.


----------



## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Hmm. I think you are onto something in saying they are tense. But I guess it also depends on each person's definition of "strong." I guess a horse could be strong (high energy or powerful) but not tense, but in my (limited) experience, I think most strong horses are nervous and tense. 

I guess to me, strong would be forward and high-energy. But I guess it could be defined multiple ways. In my own horse experience, I think there is also a barn sour component. That is if my forward, barn sour-ish mares were considered "strong." And I'm not sure if they are/were. But they are definitely forward and high energy. And on the bit and on the muscle when you turn for home. 

It will be interesting to see how others define a strong horse. A strong horse might simply be a forward horse that doesn't want to come back down to the rider's requests.

Circling has never helped me either. Sometimes I will actually stop them and make them face the direction that they don't want to go, just so they will stand and I can have a break! If I ride enough the barn sour and hurrying goes away. But those first handful of rides for the year are interesting!


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Oh boy, strong horses I have had a plenty! 

I do not agree that it always goes along with tension either. 

Many of the jump racehorses could be very strong and on the gallops would hook off with a not so experienced rider. A lot of it was just because they wanted to run. All were ridden in a snaffle. 

The 'art' of getting them to settle was to never let them get into a stride but to swing them from side to side so they were never in balance. Once they realise that they cannot just go, they settle and listen to the bit cues much better. 

When I started riding there was Pony Racing and several of the riding school ponies raced. This did make them quite strong but they were perfectly safe to use in the riding school. A couple were kept for lead rein riders, but all were perfectly safe off a lead in the arena. 

Another thing I found with many a strong horse was to use a neck strap and pull up on that rather than the reins. Most soon settled.


----------



## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Foxhunter said:


> Another thing I found with many a strong horse was to use a neck strap and pull up on that rather than the reins. Most soon settled.


It's interesting you mentioned that, because on the other thread, about not having reins and riding home in a handbag strap around the neck.......they were talking about the importance of riding with your seat and legs, and the result is presumably a horse you can ride with a strap on it's neck. 

But back when I was green as could be, with my first horse, I could ride him in an arena with a neck rope and he responded beautifully to it. So know it wasn't my brilliant riding skills because I never had a lesson at the time. And yet, he knew how to respond to a neck rope. I kind of have a theory that if a horse knows to move off your fingertips (like backing up on the ground) then maybe he responds to a neck strap the same way. What do you think? 

I bet a lot of horses would steer and stop in a neck rope (otherwise bridle-less). I just would never trust them out in the open with it. But I think a lot of them seem to know what you are asking with it.


----------



## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

trailhorserider said:


> I bet a lot of horses would steer and stop in a neck rope (otherwise bridle-less). I just would never trust them out in the open with it. But I think a lot of them seem to know what you are asking with it.


My mare _sort of_ steers and stops with a neck rope. I was working on getting that consistent/better with her bridle on her as a backup (reins knotted so I could grab them but they weren't hanging down by her knees) before she hurt herself. I may take the opportunity (she's only cleared for walk under saddle at the moment) to do some more with it.

The point is, while she is actually pretty well educated on the flat, I'm doing specific training. Could I safely ride her with only the neck strap? Probably. But only as far as stop/go, she doesn't steer very well. And with a bridle on? She steers off seat.


----------



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Finalcanter said:


> Is it just a horse that has too much go? Is it a horse that just doesn't respond to cues to slow down? And is it a personality or training issue?


Yes, depending on context/situation. A horse can be 'strong' but happy & still in control too.



> If any of the above is correct, i've ridden quite a few of them and I can't for the life of me cue them to 'chill out' but circling them. These horses really opened up my eyes about how useless bits can be because half of the time said horses are dead in the mouth/ignore any resistance nor seat cues. ...I can only infer sometimes strong horses are just really tense horses. But is there not much to do but circle-mania? I ride lesson horses


In that context, I'd agree that the horses are tense, unhappy, have probably not learned to relax under a rider, may not have been well educated at all, and have learned that bit pressure(or at least, pulling back on both reins) is just another uncomfortable but meaningless affair to be ignored. There may also be a matter of 'excess energy' if they 'come down' & become 'soft' after doing lots of circles. If these horses are educated and behave well under an experienced rider, it may be that they have learned novice riders are just something to be resisted and endured.

LOTS of stuff you can do, depending on specifics, but not so much to be done if you're just having lessons on a horse like this... except ask for a different horse. Of course, perhaps these horses are indeed OK after a couple of circles or such, and your instructor is meaning to teach you something specific about riding horses such as these, but my knee jerk reaction to your post is that if you are paying for lessons to learn to ride, then your instructor is not doing you any favours by putting you on horses you have no control on & I'd suspect a different riding establishment, where they put you on horses who you can learn on, would be a good move.


----------



## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

There was a judge who said “I don’t know how to define pornography, but I know it when I see it” so that.

I find that strong horses respond best to working on the outside rein, along with responsive, nice horses. Working on the outside rein doesn’t really work for lazy horses, at least in my experience.


----------



## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

Since I ride with such an emphasis on being soft and having a loose rein, I very rarely have a horse that will pull on my hands (not including colts and horses I'm training who don't know any better). And honestly, the only times I've had horses get 'strong' is after a long layoff, for instance after Mirage's colt was weaned and I started riding her again after being off for her foaling, or in the spring with Dreams since we don't do a lot of riding in the winter up here. But when they do get strong, I too find circling to be useless. BENDING, now, bending is good. True bending I mean, with the horse moving his ribcage off your inside leg and arcing his whole body, and his inside tracks stepping into his outside tracks. Serpentines, yielding the hindquarters, backing, shoulder in/out, two-tracking … I've found the worst thing to do with a strong horse is let them go straight. With a real runaway I'll one rein stop (again, a TRUE one rein stop, taught correctly from the ground before I ever climb aboard, with the horse disengaging his hindquarters and stepping across his outside hind with the inside one) and then we'll move right on into bending, yielding the hindquarters, etc. 

But first and foremost, I want softness. Who here has ever had a horse run off on them while still giving to the bit and being soft in their hands? I don't mean running off with his nose on his chest with you holding onto the reins for dear life, because we all know they can do that. I mean galloping off while you pick up the rein with your thumb and forefinger and the horse gives to that pressure. Don't know about any of you, but I've never had a horse do that. And I've yet to hear someone complain about their horse being too soft on the rein, either. No one ever comes home in a huff and says "Doggone it honey, we gotta sell this nag because every time I pick up on the reins the darn thing give to the pressure!" I'm not saying it can't happen, but in my experience it hasn't. 

So if I ask Dreams to lope down the trail for the first time this year and he tries to squirt out from under me, the first thing I'll do is ask him to give to the bit or bosal. Asking him to be soft instantly brings his attempt to reach Maximum Warp down to a dull roar and says "Hey now, listen to me please", and we can bend at the lope around rocks and bushes or do serpentines, etc until he's got it all out of his system if I feel like his speed is unsafe. If I ask him to get soft and listen to me and he doesn't, that's when I bring out the big guns and one rein stop him, then we go from there. A soft horse by definition is not pulling on the reins - which to me is what defines a horse being strong. So, to eliminate 'strongness', I work on encouraging softness.

-- Kai


----------



## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

A tense, worried horse can get strong with a rider, but also agree with @Foxhunter that strong horses may not be particularly tense either.

You can help a tense, worried horse improve, but you may not necessarily prevent a horse from getting strong by training or experience, if they have a certain temperament.

I'll say that I expect horses to learn not to jig and rush at slower gaits, and even if they revert back to some behaviors like that after a lack of exercise from bad weather, injury, etc., I expect them to be responsive again once that problem is overcome. Every horse should be able to learn to relax under normal circumstances at the walk, trot and canter, and feel responsive.

That being said, some horses will always be strong when excited or galloping at times, especially when in groups of horses, open country, or competition. To me this is not a training issue because this can be true for horses that can do very nice canter to halt transitions, for example. It's not that they aren't trained well to cues, but still you may end up with a horse that gets strong at the gallop.

I wouldn't call a horse that ignores cues "strong," but would say the horse does not have enough training, is in the wrong bit or in a circumstances where they are overwhelmed and running off.

To me a strong horse might be one that needs reminders to slow when and where the rider asks, such as half halts or counter-bending as @Foxhunter describes. That horse will push forward strongly and might keep accelerating without these cues, or at top acceleration (full gallop) may need some strong cueing and core strength from the rider to break down into a slower gait. The horse will not ignore the cues, but will feel "strong" or require strong cues for incentive.

A strong horse is an "at times" prospect, while a horse with a training issue will be consistently ignoring or pushing through cues.

I'm perfectly comfortable galloping a strong horse full out, because they will respond to my cues. I will not gallop a horse that is unresponsive to cues, because that is an unsafe prospect.


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

When working in jump racing, there was a horse that everyone hated. He was not nice in the stable and riding him was a chore - on an easy day when they were just walking out, he would be cantering sideways down the road. He was always wringing wet after work and would be in a cold sweat when afternoon stables came around. 

He was notorious for running off with riders and never did any good in races as he took to much out of himself early in the race. 

We had snow and could only get the horses out on the cleared roads. One morning I swapped with the lad who was due to rode him. I swapped his bridle from an ordinary snaffle to a cheek snaffle, I also used my jumping saddle on him. 

At no point when he was cantering sideways, did I ever get annoyed or frustrated with him. I just pulled up on his neck strap. I also took over looking after this particular horse. 

I did things that I wouldn't normally do, I used mints as bribery, never told him off when he threatened me in the stable, just stood my ground. Soon, he was absolutely fine with me doing anything with him in the stable and in about three or four days he was out walking the rest of the string. 

When the all weather gallop was opened and we started cantering the horses, I was on him. I kept him at the back of the string. He started to tank off with me, I started to take a hold on the reins and he went faster. Fortunately I put my brain into gear, stopped a hard contact, a finger in the neck strap and he dropped the bit and settled. 

I rode that horse on the grass gallops without any trouble. First time he was working with two other not so good horses, he left them standing at the top of the hill. Three days later he worked with two other better horses. Again he left them well behind up the hill. So it happened that he was tested against two other good horses and finished with them. 

I was taken off him and one of the young jockeys was to ride him work. Paddy asked me how to ride him. I told him and again he worked really well and was totally settled. Paddy rode him in two races and they easily won both. 

The horse was entered on a good race and the son of the boss was to ride him. On the gallops he was hooked off with and for the first time in weeks the horse was in a cold sweat that afternoon. They came nowhere in the race. Paddy rode him again and won the next race. 

.............

Another horse was coughing. I had the task of riding him out on hos own. He was a nappy so and so but realised that I wasn't going to let him have his own way. When he didn't cough I started trotting him and then cantering him up the verges by the side of the road. I told the trainer he hadn't coughed for a while and she told me to start trotting him. I told her what I had been doing so next day I was to ride him on the grass gallop. 

He went out with the last lot. There was a goog horse come back into work, a big grey that was notorious for being very strong. The lad who was riding him asked that everyone stayed well back from him. 

I was about mid string. We were to canter (slow gallop) single file, straight up the hill. 

Soon I was near the front and a big grey butt was looming closer. I knew that if I drew alongside we would both be hooked off with so, I swung my horse out the string to a place where we often stopped before going around the bowl. He pulled up with no problem waiting for another horse to join him. 

When they had all gone past I started to follow but he decided that having been conned all he would do was walk! At the top of the hill the trainer asked what had happened. I just replied, "he started to cough!" 

I had to ride him out on his own for a couple more days and when he was back in full work someone else was riding him!


----------



## Finalcanter (Apr 15, 2013)

Just to reiterate, I'm not really looking for help with anything per say, I'm more curious on other's take on this word and it's meanings, and possibly what they do. I'm loving all these opinions! 

I also agree that circling hasn't helped but it is often touted as a cure all. I have found other methods that work if one or two circles does not. My personal definition of 'strong' differs from 'forward'. Forward horses react quickly to the rider and easily. Strong horses do this, but have issues with coming back down. I also often pair the strong definition with pulling the rider when he or she asks for a slower gait.

on that note..
My hands are soft and very quiet normally, and the way the hunter horses are at my barn, even the lesson ones, a pullback on the rein means slow down. They are not trained with seat cues here, though I've ridden horses that are. Most times I let the reins loose because they are responsive to leg cues, thought I've seen other riders fight 'strong' horses with rein only- it's...hard to watch in some cases. I use a combination of things, including voice, and do a few laps around the arena, especially if I'm riding an anxious or excited horse. They 'get' it, not immediately, but they slow down. Of course this wouldn't work on every horse there but the ones I ride seem to react well.



--edited several times because my keyboard is throwing a fit...


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

With horses that like to take a 'hold' I have done several things. 

In an arena I will ride them on a loose rein, and I mean with the reins hanging down, no contact at all. This is usually fine at a walk but once trottting they start to look for the pull back and will panic and start to shove their head down and to go faster searching for that contact. 

This is when circling helps, without pulling back you guide them onto an ever decreasing circle until they come back down. Again this is when a neck strap can help. 

It doesn't take long before they realise they can work on a loose rein. 

The other thing is to put them on a circle at a trot, ask for a canter and then immediately as for them to come back to a trot so you are only cantering one stride. Soon they are anticipating this and will do it of their own accord. Then you can ask for two strides and slowly increase the length they are cantering.


----------



## Aprilswissmiss (May 12, 2019)

My best longest-term trainer (after I had already had plenty of experience under my belt, of course) put me on a lot of horses that most would describe as strong, forward, etc. Every single time, he'd start out with "drop the reins." That meant completely. On the buckle, no contact whatsoever. I'd get yelled at if I picked up the reins at all. Most horses, you could feel their entire body and mental energy scale down 5 notches, even the crazy ponies that would buck you into next week without a second thought. They had nothing to take a hold of, after all, so they can't take a hold. After some walks, trots, and canters around on the buckle (at which point the horse often began reaching down and searching for contact themselves), I would start to slowly gather my reins, and we'd proceed through the lesson like any other horse, just always keeping softness and timely release in mind. They just needed that mental reassurance that no one was going to hang on their face, and nothing to physically lean onto that enables the behavior, and to learn how to search for the contact rather than have the contact be forced. Horses that were brand new to this drop-the-reins concept would at first be like "You mean RUN?" but after a couple strides forward, go "oh, you're not tearing up my face, okay," and relax just like the others.

The horse I currently own is exactly like this. If you don't touch her mouth, she's the softest horse in the world. She'll turn off of a single finger rested on one side of her neck. If you get on and pick up the reins for immediate contact like you mean business, she'll be a fire breathing dragon running around with her head up in the air and you'll never get her to walk unless you just let go. The feel needs to be taken slowly through softness and release.

The key, to me, is starting and ending without expectations for contact, and in the middle, always releasing when releasing is due. It makes you a softer rider and your horse more responsive. I like @Foxhunter's post above.


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Skipper, my late boss's Irish Darught hunter was very strong and would lock on to the right side of the bit. 

In all the years I had him in my care I could _never _get him out of the habit. I am fairly sure that this stemmed from an injury he had to his left hind. We never discovered what the problem was but he was crippled lame, wouldn't trot at all, walk or canter. 

This injury was high up in his groin and no matter what testing he had, we could not get a reaction of exactly where it was hurting. Four months at grass and he came up sound but with the locking on habit.


----------



## kiwigirl (Sep 30, 2009)

My mare Phoenix was a big strong Suffolk Punch, Clydie X draft. She was a very strong, forward moving horse, however I broke in using a snaffle bit and she was very soft and responsive to it. I honestly thought I rode her with minimal contact on the bit, preferring to neck rein and use my legs. I had no issues with her and all though very forward moving and inclined to be in a hurry to see what was around the next corner I could slow her simply by firming my seat and doing a subtle one rein check.



I then decided to do away with the bit and ride just in a halter. Well, that was a very interesting experience lol. As my ride progressed she began to push through the halter more and more and I could not get her to bend at all. The ride progressively got scarier and scarier until finally I could not keep her in hand any longer and she bolted. Fortunately we were heading up hill and by the time we got to the top she was pretty tired and was willing to let me take charge again. She was pretty full of herself though, tossed her head and snorted like a right madam all the way home.


After that I rode her in a halter under her bridle, bit in her mouth but the reins on the halter and we never had any issues again. She responded to the halter just the way she did to the bit. 



I'm not sure how to explain that behavior!


----------



## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

Speaking as to Trigger alone... that was the number one scary problem with him... ignoring any cue to halt and really getting into his mouth would send him straight up. He would run right though the bit... just set his neck and tear off. Back in my Bigger Bit = Better Brakes days, I thought I'd just go up and up and up on bit strength until some day I actually landed on one that would get his attention.

It wasn't a lack of having his attention. It was multiple problems and I just made them exponentially worse by getting meaner and bigger with the bit. He was anything but dead in the mouth. If anything, he is very soft in the mouth. It was his head that was on wrong... his brain wasn't wired right.

1. He was a nervous hot mess suffering from PTSD from suspect past abuse. A long list of reactions to very, very specific stimuli - Men with strong/loud/aggressive tones of voice... but I learned last weekend also women with aggressive/harsh tones to the voice, NOT being able to see your eyes aka wearing sunglasses, spinning a head or heel rope anywhere near him, showing him the end of the rope, reaching for his ears would freak him out so bad he'd nearly stand straight up, and he would shake uncontrollably under saddle, talking with your hands, loud body language. 

2. Mounting evidence suggests he was a black rodeo relay horse. This explains why he'd be ready to take off like a shot as soon as you got your left boot in the stirrup and your right foot off the ground.

3. He took every ride like a race. In an arena with one other horse and rider walking side by side? He'd get a little faster, a little faster... and the other horse would get a little faster, then next thing you know, he's blazing a full circuit around the arena hard as he can run. There was no shutting him down, no keeping him from picking up speed... he would ignore me and just run right through the bit. 

4. I was scared of him and not able to ride any horse without being tense as a loaded spring. He sensed my tension and concern, worry, and he's super sensitive to his rider... and responds in kind immediately. I don't mean there's a couple of seconds of lag there. He is immediate in his reaction. So he'd want to GO... he was afraid because I was afraid, so MUST GO LADY! If you're scared, I'm scared and we go!

He was and still sometimes is, a hot mess. But he stops for me now. He may not LIKE it, but most of the time he stops just fine. The best thing I've done for him is trail ride. I will preach that gospel till I die... because the trails here are narrow and wind around. He can't gather up a full head of steam in most places. The second best thing I can do for him and let him keep his feet moving... he will give me his head easily, he's very soft in the neck... so we used to do a lot of circles till he cooled off and figured out we're not going anywhere. Then I started packing snacks with us... and every time he stood still to let me get in the saddle, I would and still do... tap his shoulder. He reaches back, taps my shin, gets a snack. We do this on each side before we move out. If I forget, he will tap me once... then twice... then a third time like hey... hey lady... laddyyyyyyy you forgot my snack! If I ask him to stop on the trail, he has a choice: Keep moving his feet, sure if he wants... but we're going to do it right here in a circle... or listen to me, stop when I ask, and get a snack. Of his own accord, he's began stopping in the middle of the trail if I slip my boots out of the stirrups. If he feels them suddenly swing loose? He will stop and look back at me to make sure I'm okay. He by GOLLY gets a snack for that, yes sir! Because I feel like he'll stop if there's a real problem. He listens for the velcro on the horn bag now. I get my water bottle out? He hears that velcro sound and he is STOPPING and looking back at me. LOL

I've also learned to be serene... not just quiet... but serene... and rock steady calm no matter what... when I'm around him. I've learned to modulate my tone and keep my voice calm... no matter what. But we also, all of us I camp with, talk normally, loudly, and with our hands a lot... but cheerfully so he's learned to understand talking with hands is okay... and loud voices aren't always bad.

He's still very sensitive to tone of voice... so if I'm telling a joke loudly on the trail, over my shoulder, he's fine. If I notice when we get back to camp my other horse is gone (happened once) and I raise my voice and my tone is full of alarm... he wigs right out and gets emotionally compromised. Then he's an accident looking for a place to happen. He will try to take off on me and head straight to the trailer.... sooooo I watch how I say things these days.

On the trail... I usually let him pick his pace. It's two hours in and two hours out buddy - feel free to trot all you like! You're just wearing yourself out, sir. He can trot about two hours solid, btw. It's exhausting, but he's learning to calm down - he has no one to blame but himself. But he also gets to burn off tension before it builds up enough he things he has to run.

These days, on a nice straight away if he wants to, I will let him off his chain and we GO! And he can FLY... but he always listens when I ask for a shut down - Because I'm learning to trust him and he's learning I'm not going to beat him, he doesn't have to 'win' every 'race'. 

So, for him, it's partly his nature, but it's largely conditioning and what he was expected to do in his past life. It's taken about four years to mellow him out... but he's anything but dead in the mouth. He was by and large made into what he was, by someone else, before I got him... because that's what they wanted him to do, everything from walking off to wanting to RUN EVERYWHERE... someone else expected it of him.

Annnnd I'm still working on chilling him out. Trails, he's by and large golden now. Parades and grand entries at rodeos are the next Big Thing we're working on. Those are some tricky situations - Much Picking of Battles goes on there because I have to keep the safety of everyone else around me in mind and he gets sensory overload and is just mentally GONE. Much work to be done, but we'll get there.

The rest of our horses have always been very meh about running off on us... unless it was heading home. And that's why we started hauling away from home to ride. Hard to bolt back to the barn when there's no barn to run back to, and at camp, there's not a lot to look forward to other than being tied to a picket line or stand around in a pen.


----------



## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Finalcanter said:


> Is it just a horse that has too much go? Is it a horse that just doesn't respond to cues to slow down? And is it a personality or training issue?



Of course, everyone's definition of "strong" is going to differ. Just like everyone's different of "well broke" is going to differ. 



For me, if a horse does not respond to cues to slow down, then that is a training issue. That's not what I call strong. That's just untrained. 



I feel that "strong" refers to their personality. Strong is a horse that requires an experienced rider. It's not that they do not listen, or aren't well trained, but they are POWERFUL in their movements and PASSIONATE about their job, whatever that may be. 



Since barrel racing is my main thing, that's often where I relate the word "strong". For example, when Shotgun knows it is time to make a barrel run, he is strong. That is the only time I will allow him to throw his nose and get pushy, when he wants to get into that arena and GO. And he does. He wants to get in there and he wants to work. The rest of the time? His favorite speed is walk (or perhaps stop, LOL). My daughter is currently 3 1/2 and she rides him (with assistance) all over the place. This summer I will allow her to start learning to ride him by herself. He's not spooky. He's not reactive. He's a good kids horse. But....he can be strong when he is doing his one job he really enjoys = barrel racing. 



Red can be strong too, but in a different way. He's not as "strong" as Shotgun. He allows me to "hold" him more when we're going down the alley. He doesn't do the nose throw or the pushiness as much. Yes, he still loves his job but it's a different kind of strong. 





Finalcanter said:


> If any of the above is correct, i've ridden quite a few of them and I can't for the life of me cue them to 'chill out' but circling them. These horses really opened up my eyes about how useless bits can be because half of the time said horses are dead in the mouth/ignore any resistance nor seat cues. I'm riding literal freight trains at times.



Dead in the mouth, ignoring seat cues, etc. All those things are untrained, to me. 



One that won't chill out, are just ones with a hotter-type personality. And to me, hot is not the same as strong. 





Finalcanter said:


> Some listen to spoken voice though, and I can only infer sometimes strong horses are just really tense horses. But is there not much to do but circle-mania? I ride lesson horses so I can't change anything, but i'm just curious in general what could be done, for any horse.



Whether circles work or not, depends on the horse.


----------

