# Being Sued



## freedomfoundfarm

I recently sold a horse to a man in another state. He was determined he wanted THIS horse...and wanted me to deliver it too. I asked him to please come see the horse and try him out but he stated he was in NY and would not be back in GA for a week but after emailing pics and a short video he said he wanted him and I asked or a deposit PLUS cost of vet check up front (feeling leery he was being so demanding) Emailed him a contract he printed, signed and overnighted with a check for deposit but not for vet check. We had a conversation thru texts and via phone because I was not comfortable he was already breeching contract. He stated he was upset over deposit amount and REALLY wanted this horse for his daughter so asked how we could work thru this issue. I finally broke down and agreed to accept remainder of payment and vet check fee PLUS hauling fee (which was VERY MINIMAL...$150 for a 5 hr drive ONE WAY!!) when we brought the horse to him. We showed up as planned Saturday (a little early and waited for over and hr for him to arrive. We unloaded the horse AFTER he arrived and he and his teenage daughter did not even have a clue what a lunge line was, as they bought one thinking it was a lead line. I told this man over and over that I will NEVER claim a horse is bomb proof or child safe because it is an animal with a brain and 4 legs. We lunged the horse, trotted him up and down the road and his daughter took the horse for a walk thru the fields. We were there a good hour with him and the horse and he never voiced a concern about the horse. Just as we are getting back home (5 hrs later) he calls and says the horse is lame!! I asked what happened to him and he said nothing, you sold me a lame horse!!....for hours afterwards he harrasses me and my vet that did the vet check, threatening and harrssing us finally stating in a text his daughter was thrown from the horse and he just cant have her getting hurt so "come get the horse". He stated he had a 3 day period in which to return the horse. I have never heard of this. He then claimed I was a "horse BUSINESS" and he was a CONSUMER and I HAVE TO REFUND HIS MONEY and come get the horse!! First I do NOT operate a horse selling business. This was a horse I was aquired and I am a mare type person. He was too big of a horse for me as well as a gelding. He never showed signs of lameness with me or his former owner. Now this man is suing me for violating the Tennessee Consumer Protection Act. How is this possible??? Im not a business. He signed a contract with NO warrantees or guarantees and my vet found the horse sound just days before the trip. ....I do not even know how to go about finding a lawyer for this issue.....HELP!!! I feel it is buyer beware and his daughter is afraid of the horse and now I am getting sued because he has money. Suggestions???? OH yeah and I kept ALL his emails and texts too!!


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## DancingArabian

You need a lawyer.

Not trying to assign blame but why would you go through this sale? The guy didn't seem to know much if anything about horses, his daughter doesn't either, and the horse isn't even kid friendly and it's the daughter the horse is for.

In many states when you sign a contract for something you have 3 days to change your mind. I think it applies to things like gym memberships - not horses. An equine lawyer is what you need.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Joe4d

yeh you need a lawyer, and be sure to counter suit for legal fees


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## Joe4d

Oh and i ran into a similar incedent. He is saying the "Horse business" thing because it changes the legal aspect of the sale most likely. Under VA law all horse sales are immediate and AS IS, UNLESS you are a horse professional. Of course the law doesnt define what a Horse professional is. So thats gonn abe the argument point. Have you ever filed a tax return listing Horse income or expenses ?


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## mls

freedomfoundfarm said:


> this man is suing me for violating the Tennessee Consumer Protection Act. How is this possible??? Im not a business. He signed a contract with NO warrantees or guarantees and my vet found the horse sound just days before the trip. ....I do not even know how to go about finding a lawyer for this issue.....HELP!!! I feel it is buyer beware and his daughter is afraid of the horse and now I am getting sued because he has money. Suggestions???? OH yeah and I kept ALL his emails and texts too!!


Have you been served paperwork or is he just telling you he is going to sue you?


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## churumbeque

The one thing I am going to point out is you should NEVER use your vet for the pre purchase exam. That is a big NO NO. You want an impartial vet that has no ties to you or your horse. 

I would consult some legal council but I would be concerned for the horses welfare so I may handle it differently as you sound just glad to be rid of the horse. I would never sell a horse with out someone coming to look at it and meeting them.

I would go get it and charge probably a 1.50 cents a mile (or what ever going rate is) for the delivery and pick up and send the balance back.


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## freedomfoundfarm

The horse IS kid friendly and had been shown by a young girl prior to me owning him and trail ridden by several kids too and I have a STRICT rule of never telling anyone a horse is DEAD BROKE, BOMB PROOF or KID SAFE because this is an animal and they have a brain and 4 legs and ANYTHING can happen.......I did not know they were NOT horse smart till I met them...he lied a good game and as they untangled the new lunge line and said WOW this is a LONG Lead line I knew.....They were boarding him at a very nice barn that looked to be a english jumping barn and said she was taking lessons there. I stated both in my ad and over and over that this was a WP and trail horse. NEVER guaranteed him to be a guaranteed show horse now either....I didnt really use "MY" vet I used a vet in the area. He had pulled Coggins for me a few months back and this guy wanted this done FAST and he was the first vet that could get it done within this man's time frame. Its not that I hated the horse. I just felt he was not what I wanted or would use. and yes...I was served with papers being sued ...me and the vet last week...trying to find a lawyer that wont break my bank =(


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## churumbeque

freedomfoundfarm said:


> The horse IS kid friendly and had been shown by a young girl prior to me owning him and trail ridden by several kids too and I have a STRICT rule of never telling anyone a horse is DEAD BROKE, BOMB PROOF or KID SAFE because this is an animal and they have a brain and 4 legs and ANYTHING can happen.......I did not know they were NOT horse smart till I met them...he lied a good game and as they untangled the new lunge line and said WOW this is a LONG Lead line I knew.....They were boarding him at a very nice barn that looked to be a english jumping barn and said she was taking lessons there. I stated both in my ad and over and over that this was a WP and trail horse. NEVER guaranteed him to be a guaranteed show horse now either....I didnt really use "MY" vet I used a vet in the area. He had pulled Coggins for me a few months back and this guy wanted this done FAST and he was the first vet that could get it done within this man's time frame. Its not that I hated the horse. I just felt he was not what I wanted or would use. and yes...I was served with papers being sued ...me and the vet last week...trying to find a lawyer that wont break my bank =(


My point was that if you had met them and watched them ride you would have seen they weren't horse people and you could have declined the sale if that was a deal breaker for you. How much money are you talking? If it is a small amount don't waste your time on a lawyer just go to court and let a judge decide or take the horse back and deduct some reasonable fees as I mentioned before. That sounds like your best options to me. 

Usually he would have to file in your town but since you delivered the horse you might have to go to his town and spend all that time driving again.

It is also customary for the buyer to contact a vet and pay them directly and leave you out of the loop. That way they are also in control of how much they want checked and how much to spend.


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## Daisy25

I know that hindsight is 20/20...

but I have to wonder if the whole thing was a scam from the get-go? The whole story of buying out of state and exchanging checks for incorrect amounts and needing THIS horse RIGHT NOW is the same pattern many other scammers use with different sorts of products. (I have never heard it being done with a horse before!)

Plus - the buyer is awfully quick with his lawsuit...

I'm wondering if you can contact someone in law enforcement or government agency to report this? I know that the FBI investigates certain kinds of buying/selling fraudsters...


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## Daisy25

And IF it's a scam....

the buyer will probably claim (falsely) that something bad happened to the horse. His goal will be to get his money back PLUS keep the horse (all the while maintaining it had to be put down for its injuries).


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## Chevaux

This is more subbing purposes as I would like to see the outcome. You've got some good comments from the members to help you follow up on things. I'm not from your country so am unfamiliar with the legal system (heck I don't even know my own country's) but an initial consult with a lawyer is probably the way to go and he/she should be able to give you some advise on whether you tackle him in court if your case looks strong or pay out to minimize your costs (which sucks I know). Have you touched bases with the vet that's been sued? Is there an opportunity for a joint defence (if that's legally allowed)?


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## mls

freedomfoundfarm said:


> I was served with papers being sued ...me and the vet last week...trying to find a lawyer that wont break my bank =(


Our benefit plan at work has a hotline we can call for legal advice. Maybe check into that?

Your vet may be able to recommend an equine versed attorney too.

You can always countersue to ensure your attorney fees + are covered.


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## freedomfoundfarm

HInd sight is 20/20 and I wondered asbout the scam as well. He paid $3000 for the horse and is now suing me for $25,000!!!! I feel soooooooooo stupid and decieved =( He asked for and spoke directly with the vet on the phone as well before we delivered the horse too. I begged him to come ride the horse but he kept saying he was in NY on a business trip....FYI he is SVP for the "Medicine's Company" and told me he will spend whatever it takes to make me PAY for this!!! I have multiple threats via phone message, texts and emails from him. He filed in MY home town. He lives in GA and hired an attorney who lives in TN 3 hrs from me....it all just seems sooooooooooooo wrong.


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## Joe4d

send him a letter back saying you will see him in court. This case will never see the light of day. They will start sending settlement offers soon. I would still counter for legal fees though.


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## Daisy25

freedomfoundfarm said:


> HInd sight is 20/20 and I wondered asbout the scam as well. He paid $3000 for the horse and is now suing me for $25,000!!!! I feel soooooooooo stupid and decieved =( He asked for and spoke directly with the vet on the phone as well before we delivered the horse too. I begged him to come ride the horse but he kept saying he was in NY on a business trip....FYI he is SVP for the "Medicine's Company" and told me he will spend whatever it takes to make me PAY for this!!! I have multiple threats via phone message, texts and emails from him. He filed in MY home town. He lives in GA and hired an attorney who lives in TN 3 hrs from me....it all just seems sooooooooooooo wrong.


Hmmm....

I wonder if he is trying to scare you into settling the lawsuit by refunding all his money? or if he thinks you have deep pockets?

Can you contact Tennessee Consumer Affairs? 1-800-342-8385
See if they can direct you to someone who can help defend against this (possible) scam...


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## JoesMom

Save every message he sends you!!!!
Do not respond to him in anyway!! Call an attorney and ask for a reference to an attorney familiar with equine law. Don't post any more case specific information on this forum about him or this deal. No one here can help you stop this guy from railroading you into court for what appears to be a fraudulent transaction. When you file your counter charge be sure to file for court costs as well.

Get Professional Help Now!!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

And stop discussing this with anyone other than YOUR attorney. Anything you say and or write about this can be used in court and can come back to bite you. From now on, no comment and when he tries to talk to you, threaten you via e-mail or cell phone, refer him back to your attorney and refuse to talk to him. Only answer you give from her on out is "My attorney is......XXXXX, his phone number is...XXXXXX, do not contact me again, all discussion and correspondance is to be handled by attorney(s)." And don't get sucked in, period.


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## Chevaux

Dreamcatcher, Joe4d and Joesmom have very good points -- please ignore the questions in my response. Stay strong, don't panic and you will survive this. I await the post, though, that says all is resolved when the time comes.


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## Maple

I'm with the others - tell him to speak with your attorney at any time he tries to contact you. He is trying to intimidate you, and as the others have said I believe this was a scam from the getgo. I know hindsight is great, and you are kicking yourself for going through with it after the initial hesitation; but what is done is done and you can't change it. All you can do is follow the proper channels and trust that karma is going to kick this man's butt. 

If you have done nothing wrong, and the vet has done nothing wrong, you have nothing to be afraid of. As was mentioned, keep record of EVERY text, email, call. Keep a journal of do not miss a beat. Make sure when you do go to court that you look for your legal fees. 

I do wish you the best of luck, and I hope you can eventually come back and let us know that you sorted out this scheming toad.


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## Clayton Taffy

He cannot possibly sue you for $25000 on a $3000 horse.

Are you sure he is really SVP at that company it is easy to look up.


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## JoesMom

He can sue for whatever he wants. The judge decides what he would be awarded if he were to win. 

You have heard about the woman who sued McDonalds when she spilled her own coffee? She was awarded $2.7mil + $160,000 in medical bills. The judge later reduced it to a confidential settlement upon appeal.


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## JustDressageIt

As much as I'd like to follow along and get updates, I would really suggest contacting a mod to have this thread deleted, just to cover all your bases. 
Best of luck - what an awful situation to be in..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COWCHICK77

Welcome to "I refuse to be held accountable for my dumb actions, I blame you."

Unfortunately there are some folks new to the horse world that think that buying a horse is like buying a microwave at WalMart, if it doesn't work right- take it back, rather than doing the homework and finding a knowledgeable horse to aid in the search for daughters "my little pony".
I wish you the best of luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clayton Taffy

JoesMom said:


> He can sue for whatever he wants. The judge decides what he would be awarded if he were to win.
> 
> You have heard about the woman who sued McDonalds when she spilled her own coffee? She was awarded $2.7mil + $160,000 in medical bills. The judge later reduced it to a confidential settlement upon appeal.


Yes, you can put any number on a frivalous law suit, but his nubmers are baseless.

This shister is trying to intimidate you with big numbers.

There is no pain and suffering involved. 

Pain and suffering, loss of use, loss of income is where the big bucks come in.


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## equiniphile

Sorry for the situation you're in, and I hope you can update us when everything is done and behind you.


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## freedomfoundfarm

Ok Yall Im gonna keep everything else quiet on this matter but as soon as I have answers I will post them !!! Yall have been soooooo helpful. TY TY TY


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## Equilove

What a nightmare! Hope everything works out!


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## paintedpastures

What a nightmare is right.:-( hope things work out:-( this guy seems pretty off,could very well be a scammer:shock: {{{hugs}}} of support coming your way,update us when you can.


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## Clayton Taffy

I know you are not responding any more and that is good.

I just reread your OP, and if it were me I would just go get the horse and return the money minus trailering before the horse disappears. Hopefully the horse is not ruined. Could you possibly talk to the barn owner and find out if the horse is okay or get the real story.

Good luck!!

For inspiration read Bird's thread about the barn owner is keeping my horses hostage, the good guys do occasionally win.


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## mls

Taffy Clayton said:


> I just reread your OP, and if it were me I would just go get the horse and return the money minus trailering before the horse disappears


NO NO NO!

No physical proximity - could escalate into assualt.

If she were to take the horse, he might say she stole it and expound the situation.

As was mentioned - get an attorney and first thing - draw up a cease and desist so he cannot harass you. Save all texts, e-mails and voice mails for the judge to see.


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## ozarkmama

document, document, document all conversations. Date, time, exactly what he says word for word and what you said in reply. Keep a notebook by the phone.


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## LizzieE

Subbing.... Good luck!


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## wetrain17

I hope everything works out in the best interest of the horse, good luck!


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## Palomine

Since you have both his name and address?

Google him and see if this is something he does often, as I am betting it is.


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## franknbeans

^^ then just feed any info you find to your lawyer......good luck! Why are some people such cretins? UGH.


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## Asama

Subbing


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## mls

Any new developments over the weekend?


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## freedomfoundfarm

NO developments...not sure of a court date yet. Need to respond by the 17th and still no attorney =( I googled...just found info of his employment nothing else.....ummmm what exactly is the Tennessee Consumer Protection Act?? Anyone know????


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## Equilove

The Tennessee Consumer Protection Act (the "TCPA") forbids not just "deceptive" acts and practices, but also, "unfair" acts or practices. When violations of the TCPA are alleged in a lawsuit, the stakes can become much higher for the parties than they would be in a lawsuit involving the same conduct, event or transaction, but in which only typical breach of contract and/or negligence claims are alleged.

Why? A plaintiff who proves violations of the TCPA by the defendant may be able to recover its attorney’s fees (or, more likely, some of them) as well as triple the amount of the plaintiff’s actual damages.

Some Tennessee courts have given guidance as to what types of conduct do and do not amount to "unfair" conduct for purposes of the TCPA. A Tennessee appeals court very recently decided that "simple incompetent performance of contractual duties" does not amount to an "unfair" act or practice which violates the TCPA. In that case, a bank, despite repeated requests by the plaintiff who had fully repaid the bank’s loan, had been unable to deliver the title to a truck which it had financed for the plaintiff.

In another Tennessee case, the court held that the defendant did engage in an "unfair" act where it refused to release the title to a vehicle for which the plaintiff had fully paid unless the plaintiff referred two people to the defendant’s dealership who purchased vehicles.

In Tennessee, every act that results ultimately in some loss to a consumer is not necessarily a violation of the TCPA because it is "unfair." It is also clear that, in Tennessee, every negligent act or practice does not violate the TCPA. It is equally clear, on the other hand, that a plaintiff, even if he or she cannot prove that the defendant acted deceptively, can still prevail under the TCPA if that plaintiff can prove that the defendant engaged in an unfair act or practice. To prevail on such an allegation the court, of course, would have to agree that the defendant’s conduct was unfair.

(Hope that helped)


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## mls

Equilove said:


> It is equally clear, on the other hand, that a plaintiff, even if he or she cannot prove that the defendant acted deceptively, can still prevail under the TCPA if that plaintiff can prove that the defendant engaged in an unfair act or practice. To prevail on such an allegation the court, of course, would have to agree that the defendant’s conduct was unfair.


OP - You have the prepurchase correspondence where you repeatedly mentioned they needed to try the horse prior to buying - correct?

I would think the paragraph above covers you!


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## TrojanCowgirl

Oh my god, I just read this thread. So sorry! I just went thru a lawsuit as well. It isn't fun! But do you have any thing in writing that states he will not come try the horse out? Even if it's via email, print it out and bring it to court. That could be a huge break in your case. Any judge would know you don't buy a horse without trying it out, and if you do, there are risks.


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## freedomfoundfarm

Yes I have that plus he is claiming I am a "horse business" which I am not and quoted that I was doing business in EAST TN...referring to a "web site" titled Freedom Found Farm which is NOT me and clearly states who owns and operates it and yes they are a horse "business" however he claims because my email is freedomfoundfarm.....therefore I am a business. BUT....contract was signed by MY name and HIS name and I have over 200+ texts and even tons of emails from him where I CONSTANTLY state I make NO guarantees with this horse and ask him to come see whcih he again states he is in NY and wont be back in GA till that fri nd wants the horse delivered the following day....he was soooooooooooooooooooo animate about delivery THAT day he even insisted it be by 10am!!!


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## freedomfoundfarm

I have also found in TN that it is "buyer beware" with horse sales and not sure how he can claim I violated the TN consumer protection act becuse I have video and vet statement and vet check too....its a man with a HIGH title in a business that has mloney to burn and wants to sue.....I seriously think this is a scam too as in his legal docs he states the horse is FOR SALE.....ummmm..how can he even attempt to sell the horse with this going on???


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## TrojanCowgirl

freedomfoundfarm said:


> Yes I have that plus he is claiming I am a "horse business" which I am not and quoted that I was doing business in EAST TN...referring to a "web site" titled Freedom Found Farm which is NOT me and clearly states who owns and operates it and yes they are a horse "business" however he claims because my email is freedomfoundfarm.....therefore I am a business. BUT....contract was signed by MY name and HIS name and I have over 200+ texts and even tons of emails from him where I CONSTANTLY state I make NO guarantees with this horse and ask him to come see whcih he again states he is in NY and wont be back in GA till that fri nd wants the horse delivered the following day....he was soooooooooooooooooooo animate about delivery THAT day he even insisted it be by 10am!!!


Frankly that's all you should need. I didn't even have a lawyer in my case and I still won. If you have proof that you told him that you make no guarantees, you made no such refundable offer, and he refused to test ride the horse. It's his own fault. End of story. Any judge with half a brain would see that.


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## Delfina

See if you can locate the actual owners of Freedom Found Farm and obtain a signed statement that you are not and have not ever worked for, been an owner of or been associated with them in any way.


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## chrislynnet

Delfina, that is a great idea.


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## Maple

freedomfoundfarm said:


> I have also found in TN that it is "buyer beware" with horse sales and not sure how he can claim I violated the TN consumer protection act becuse I have video and vet statement and vet check too....its a man with a HIGH title in a business that has mloney to burn and wants to sue.....I seriously think this is a scam too as in his legal docs he states the horse is FOR SALE.....ummmm..how can he even attempt to sell the horse with this going on???


To be honest, I would bet any money that this is a man who USED to have money to burn and a high title. This sounds more like a desperate man who is trying to live the high life that he was accustom to and can no longer afford. A lot of wealthy people I know would have asked to return the horse, not gone out of their way to sue for an insane amount of money. 

I'm no lawyer, but I would think that once you keep a record of all these documents that you have nothing to be worried about. Let this prat know that you'll be looking for your legal fees at the end, and let him go to town with this ludacris case. 

I am crossing my fingers for you, but if the judge has any common sense at all, you'll be done and dusted with this in no time.


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## Corporal

DH (an atty) and I have been horse owners for 27 years. JUST bc someone sues does NOT mean they are guaranteed a win. GET AN ATTY and let your lawyer speak for you. Do NOT hire a Ron Konoski or other chain attorney. Talk to friends and family and find someone _local _who will fight for you. (They may recommend another atty who works for a firm that handles out-of-state cases, and that's okay, too. OUR office does this for certain cases, as well.)
Don't worry, either. This isn't the first time an idiot bought a horse from someone and complained. I bought, retrained (for CW Reenacting) a QH, and a newbie bought the gelding. He brought him home and HIS farrier trimmed too short and made the horse lame. He accused me of selling him a lame horse. We resolved it, mostly bc we saw each other a lot and he apologized, but these things happen.
After your lawyer draws up the paperwork and you sign it, *do NOT talk to the buyer on the phone, or in an email, or on FB, or IM.* Become a mute about the subject until it's resolved.
OH, and next time you want to sell a horse, post it on THIS FORUM first, so you can talk to real horse people.


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## freedomfoundfarm

I would love to hire an attorney but the ones I asked want outragious amounts to handle it and I dont have that cash at the moment due to being in a workman comp settlement at the moment and being out of work for a yr dont help =( I have not spoke to him....OR his attorney's since their last threatening phone call almost a month ago. He is a SVP of a major compny and still makes and has money I have a text from him stating his daughter was thrown from the horse hrs after I dropped him off and he just cant have this horse hurting his daughter. I also have a contract he signed that gives NO guarantees on the horse, just a sale of the horse. If anyone lied it was HIM....leading me to believe his daughter could ride!!! I would feel better with an attorney and my et has an atorney but I guess Im flying this one solo praying my videos, pics and witnesses help me out. Never in a million yrs thought this could happen from selling a horse. UGH


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## TrojanCowgirl

freedomfoundfarm said:


> I would love to hire an attorney but the ones I asked want outragious amounts to handle it and I dont have that cash at the moment due to being in a workman comp settlement at the moment and being out of work for a yr dont help =( I have not spoke to him....OR his attorney's since their last threatening phone call almost a month ago. He is a SVP of a major compny and still makes and has money I have a text from him stating his daughter was thrown from the horse hrs after I dropped him off and he just cant have this horse hurting his daughter. I also have a contract he signed that gives NO guarantees on the horse, just a sale of the horse. If anyone lied it was HIM....leading me to believe his daughter could ride!!! I would feel better with an attorney and my et has an atorney but I guess Im flying this one solo praying my videos, pics and witnesses help me out. Never in a million yrs thought this could happen from selling a horse. UGH


It's a lesson learned from not just you now. You very well may be saving someone from a situation like this again in the future.


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## Casey02

I guess I am wondering why you sold him the horse in the first place. 

-He didnt give you the correct amount of money for vet fees etc.
-He NEEDED the horse that minute
-Wanted you to deliver it
-Never even saw the horse in person
-And his daughter didnt know what a lunge line was (that would have been a big enough deal breaker for me)

I dont mean to bash you but there were lots of red flags. The second I would have heard a goofy email from that guy I would have been done with him, I dont understand why you let him be so pushy with you. YOU were the owner of that horse. Things can be done on your terms. Im worried about the horses well being right now. I do think if you find an attorney, you have more than enough evidence proving your side. Hopefully you can get the horse back in the right hands. Good luck, people have given great advice. Let us know what happens


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## Corporal

Agreed, hard lesson learned. You can still go to Small Claims court. Get ALL contracts and correspondance ready and don't show or give any originals to the other party or their attorneys. Make and keep copies of EVERYTHING. ONLY relinquish paperwork by order of the judge. You don't have to give "Discovery" to the other party's atty bc you yourself are not an atty.
You might get on the phone or INet and look for a small firm that is a start up. There are many good attorneys just out of law school, and you might find someone who is new but diligent. Good luck. =D


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## jinxremoving

Oh my... look, if you're being sued you need to hire an attorney. End of discussion.

However much you will lose paying that attorney and as a business owner trust me, I know how much they charge, it will probably be less than you stand to lose should the other person be victorious in their suit. An attorney will also look into the option of counter suing, recovering costs from them, etc. It's been said a few times in this thread, but you need to get an attorney and fast. Stop screwing around, regardless of how much it costs because you will be in a world of hurt if you don't get someone on this soon.

Edit:

Corporal made a good point. A lot of law schools have legal clinics or offices you can reach out to for help. They probably wouldn't be interested in this case but it would be a good start.


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## Chevaux

Don't get discouraged FreedomFoundFarm -- keep plugging away. Is there some sort of legal aid department or office in your state? While they probably due criminal work, they may be able to point you in the direction of some civil attorneys, as well.


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## freedomfoundfarm

First I sold him the horse because with every red flag he smoothed it over. 2nd I would LOVE an attorney however with NO cash in hand IM SCREWED!! 3rd no legal aid will deal with this. So Im flying solo on this and sadly will probably get screwed. All because Im a nice person and never thought I was getting walked all ovger. I dont sell horses ALL THE TIME I have NO CLUE what I was up against.....yall bashing me for selling him a horse do NOT understand I DID NOT RELIZE this was turning out to be what I feel to be scam to screw me and keep the horse.....sorry if I sound defensive but Im pretty tired of being bashed for being TRUSTING..believe me...lesson learned......


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## chrislynnet

There is a poster on here who had to go to court without a lawyer, and the guy she was opposing DID have a lawyer -- and SHE won! The poster's name starts with "Bird" and she was trying to get her foal back from a former BO. It's a great story. The trick is that she got hold of every single bit of communication and proof for her side. The judge ruled in her favor. So collect everything, make extensive notes, organize your notes so you can tell a coherent story. Don't assume that you can't win, especially since you have this guy's stupidity in writing. 

Also, I agree -- it is totally NOT helpful to give you an armchair analysis of whatever mistakes you might have made. Like you don't know that already, geez.


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## freedomfoundfarm

chrislynnet said:


> There is a poster on here who had to go to court without a lawyer, and the guy she was opposing DID have a lawyer -- and SHE won! The poster's name starts with "Bird" and she was trying to get her foal back from a former BO. It's a great story. The trick is that she got hold of every single bit of communication and proof for her side. The judge ruled in her favor. So collect everything, make extensive notes, organize your notes so you can tell a coherent story. Don't assume that you can't win, especially since you have this guy's stupidity in writing.
> 
> Also, I agree -- it is totally NOT helpful to give you an armchair analysis of whatever mistakes you might have made. Like you don't know that already, geez.


 
TY.....its the only words I have to express your suppot.....TY!!!


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## Maple

chrislynnet said:


> Also, I agree -- it is totally NOT helpful to give you an armchair analysis of whatever mistakes you might have made. Like you don't know that already, geez.


 
I 150% agree. Hindsight is a fantastic thing! We all have things we'd change if we could. All I'm seeing is that there was a horse for sale, it was sold in good faith, and somebody got into trouble. You can't vet a buyer, you can't tell who you are selling to. Plenty of people spin a good story, and I'm certain many horses are sold to pretty crap homes and the sellers would never know. 

Keep your head up, things will work out and karma is going to give this "man" a kick in the backside and manly bits at some stage!


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## WickedNag

I don't believe you can hire a lawyer in small claims court and I don't think the amount is big enough to take it out of small claims. 

Here is your defense...you can only control what happens to the horse when you owned it. You have no idea what he did or didn't do to that horse in the time it has been in his possession. 

Take a deep breath ... you will come out of this ok  Keep us posted


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## freedomfoundfarm

WickedNag said:


> I don't believe you can hire a lawyer in small claims court and I don't think the amount is big enough to take it out of small claims.
> 
> Here is your defense...you can only control what happens to the horse when you owned it. You have no idea what he did or didn't do to that horse in the time it has been in his possession.
> 
> Take a deep breath ... you will come out of this ok  Keep us posted


Both the buyer and the vet (who he is also suing) have attorneys and he is asking for $25,000. Its is Chancery court


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## WickedNag

freedomfoundfarm said:


> Both the buyer and the vet (who he is also suing) have attorneys and he is asking for $25,000. Its is Chancery court


Ouch! Should have read all the posts I guess


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## mls

freedomfoundfarm said:


> Both the buyer and the vet (who he is also suing) have attorneys and he is asking for $25,000. Its is Chancery court


Unfortunately the judge may delay the case if you show up without an attorney. $25,000 is a large amount to defend yourself over.


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## DimSum

freedomfoundfarm said:


> Both the buyer and the vet (who he is also suing) have attorneys and he is asking for $25,000. Its is Chancery court


Have you been served with any papers yet, or is this all "just talk to intimidate you" at this point?


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## Corporal

Are you a member of a Farm Bureau? If so, or if you can contact the Farm Bureau in the county where the case will be heard, you could look for an attorney to do your case Pro Bono, which means his/her services are free. Attys are expected to do a certain amount of these. I know that if it were being heard in Champaign Co., IL, where my DH practices, he, a fellow horseman, would at LEAST give you a free consultation to assess your case. You might find a horse-owning attorney who wants to help.
I'm curious, too--have you been served papers, or are you just being harassed? Is there a filed docket on this case? Look for the circuit clerk's site in the county where the buyer lives to see. Ours looks like this:
Circuit Clerk of Champaign County, Illinois
You look for the name of the filing party. If there is already a filed docket in our county, you would look for:
Small Claims
*REMEMBER: ANYBODY can sue ANYONE about ANYTHING. * All they have to do is pay the filing fee, and the Circuit Clerk's office is happy to take their money. There is NEVER a guarantee to win a lawsuit. Lawsuits are a lot of work for the attorney, they want their cut, they often charge way over $100.00/hour to the person who is SUEING, so it often becomes more expensive to continue the suit than to drop it, and they are lazy, like everybody else.
Oh, and I'd pray about this, too.
I'll be you a nickel that guy is bluffing.


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## chrislynnet

Probably not bluffing per se, but looking for a settlement. Settlements are many times more common than court trials because they're less expensive and faster to finish. However, the OP has such a good case I think I'd risk it and go to trial. Believe me, I understand about not having the money to hire a lawyer.


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## Lins

Yikes, people are crazy! I hope this works out for you. Sadly, u just can't trust anyone these days..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## freedomfoundfarm

DimSum said:


> Have you been served with any papers yet, or is this all "just talk to intimidate you" at this point?


I have been served..no court date yet I have till Aug 17th to respond....my vet's attorney just sent a letter to his attorney and me saying they represent...Im sooooooooo confused at how to respond UGH


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## Chevaux

Have you had any luck securing your own legal counsel yet?


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## jinxremoving

freedomfoundfarm said:


> I have been served..no court date yet I have till Aug 17th to respond....my vet's attorney just sent a letter to his attorney and me saying they represent...Im sooooooooo confused at how to respond UGH


Please, find an attorney... you are way, way in over your head. Ignore anyone's advice on this forum that doesn't have the words GET AN ATTORNEY somewhere in their post. An attorney will be less than the $25,000 you will probably default on for not filing a proper response in time.

... and if that doesn't sink in:

IF YOU ARE NOT A TROLL, AND YOU ARE SERIOUSLY BEING SUED, YOU NEED TO TALK TO AN ATTORNEY IMMEDIATELY REGARDLESS OF HOW MUCH IT'S GOING TO COST YOU. FORGET EVERYONE ELSE'S ADVICE AND TIPS ON HOW YOU CAN TRY AND FIGHT IT. THE ONLY ADVICE YOU NEED IS TO FIND AN ATTORNEY. A JUDGE WILL TELL YOU, THE CHANCES OF YOU WINNING BY REPRESENTING YOURSELF IS USUALLY VERY LOW. *AT THE VERY, VERY MINIMUM YOU NEED TO TALK TO AN ATTORNEY* -- MOST WILL TALK TO YOU FOR FREE AND TELL YOU WHAT THEY THINK.


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## TrojanCowgirl

jinxremoving said:


> Ignore anyone's advice on this forum that doesn't have the words GET AN ATTORNEY somewhere in their post.


Some people are taking into consideration that FFF _may not_ be able to afford one, period. Can FFF afford to lose? Nope, but _maybe_ FFF can't pay for it out of pocket right now without digging them self into an even bigger hole. I don't know. But a lot of people on this thread have great advice.

FFF, I'm sure there are resources in your area where you can sit down and get a free consultation, correct?


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## jinxremoving

TrojanCowgirl said:


> Some people are taking into consideration that FFF _may not_ be able to afford one, period. Can FFF afford to lose? Nope, but _maybe_ FFF can't pay for it out of pocket right now without digging them self into an even bigger hole. I don't know. But a lot of people on this thread have great advice.


I agree there is a lot of great advice but it hasn't seem to done any good since the OP still appears to be confused as to how to respond to the lawsuit.

I totally understand that the OP probably doesn't have the money to hire an attorney but the problem is, if she loses what would have been a few grand down the drain could potentially be $25,000 down the drain. This is a very serious thing and most law firms have payment plans available, they all know they cost a crap load and a good chunk of their clientèle cannot afford to pay up front.

It's just totally insane for someone to be sued for $25,000 and still not at least make a consultation with an attorney... and that's why I feel like this is a troll. I hope so, because if the OP is serious than she's in for a world of hurt when it does go to court - assuming she doesn't default.


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## DimSum

freedomfoundfarm said:


> I have been served..no court date yet I have till Aug 17th to respond....my vet's attorney just sent a letter to his attorney and me saying they represent...Im sooooooooo confused at how to respond UGH


You have to respond-or you will "default"...basically be a no show and the judge will find for the plaintiff regardless of the merit of the lawsuit. Hock your jewelry, get a loan from family, take back deposit bottles or DO WHATEVER it takes to get enough to hire an attorney to look it over respond. At this point you have no other choice.


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## churumbeque

jinxremoving said:


> I agree there is a lot of great advice but it hasn't seem to done any good since the OP still appears to be confused as to how to respond to the lawsuit.
> 
> I totally understand that the OP probably doesn't have the money to hire an attorney but the problem is, if she loses what would have been a few grand down the drain could potentially be $25,000 down the drain. This is a very serious thing and most law firms have payment plans available, they all know they cost a crap load and a good chunk of their clientèle cannot afford to pay up front.
> 
> It's just totally insane for someone to be sued for $25,000 and still not at least make a consultation with an attorney... and that's why I feel like this is a troll. I hope so, because if the OP is serious than she's in for a world of hurt when it does go to court - assuming she doesn't default.


Well if she is that tight on money and she looses she will probably need to file bankrupcty


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## jinxremoving

churumbeque said:


> Well if she is that tight on money and she looses she will probably need to file bankrupcty


Possibly but it sounds like she has a decent chance of winning based on what she's presented here... or at least not paying out the full $25,000. There's always the option that she can counter-sue if the case is dismissed and hope to recoup the attorney fees that way. An attorney would lay down her options and also a realistic expectation of the outcome during the initial (usually free) consultation.

Regardless, the whole situation just seems weird to me...


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## TrojanCowgirl

I get those craigslist responses all the time. Some people fall for it and some don't (no offense). Personally, when people get THAT pushy with me, I tell them to back off, give them a fake address and say 'Have a nice day'. I wouldn't be so quick to judge and call this a troll.


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## Celeste

I don't see why somebody would sue for $25,000 for a $3,000 horse. If the kid was injured, it would be a much bigger suit. If there were no injuries, I don't understand what the guy would be trying to sue for except maybe to get his money back.


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## DraftXDressage

The answer to that is that he's not actually suing for $25K. I'm sure it says something like "damages in excess of $25,000" in the prayer for relief, purely as a rote recitation establishing the court's jurisdiction over the matter.


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## freedomfoundfarm

ok let me just address everything that hs been posted. 1. I am NOT a troll. I am a 40 yr old woman who sold a horse. I sold the horse because I have been in a workman comp battle for awhile now and out of work with NO income and hay is gonna be awful in a few months. I DO NOT have the $$$$ for an attorney. I have spoken to several who want at least $2500 UP FRONT...NO PAYMENTS!! ALL tell me it is bogus and a joke but no one will help. IT do9es say he wants $25000 for damages he incurded and WILL incur with the horse, no mention of injuries and ya know what...I KNOW I NEED AN ATTORNEY...I KNOW IM GOING W/O one and yes I know a LOT is at stake that I could get screwed because this guy is a scammer!! What I came here for was trying to find ways to find horse laws and opinions not people bashing me selling the horse or calling me a liar! Im sorry I did not disclose my entire life story and what really sucks is yall as horse people need to stick together not bash one of us for getting screwed by someone else. I have not asked for a hand out nor do I want one. I asked for some information and help and I got bashed. How dare any one of you JUDGE ME.....JUDGE NONE LEST YOU BE JUDGED!!! I should be setling my comp case within 8 weeks...after over a YR OUT OF WORK and NO INCOME.....THEN....THEN I could afford an attorney....untill then, thanks for letting me know that Im screwed because he has money and I dont.....UGH.....IM SO FRUSTRATED and now just insulted, called a liar and troll just made my monday....THANKS!!


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## freedomfoundfarm

FYI...if you wnat to see copies of the papers filed....private message me and I will send them as proof Im no troll...as well as a signed contract and hell if ya want the texts....I will send them as well...


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## Speed Racer

FFF, all the floof aside about trolling, is there any way you can get a count appointed attorney? Since you're obviously unable to afford an attorney, generally the courts will assign one to you. 

This isn't really an equine related case so much, as just an idiot trying to get blood out of turnip for no other reason than he thinks you're unable to fight back. 

The horse just happens to be the vehicle for the lawsuit; it's not really about the horse at all.


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## Chevaux

I'm going to preface this by saying I know nothing of USA laws so....If you don't have your attorney yet, is it possible to go to court and ask for some sort of extension or deferral of any further acdtion until you can gather funds together for an attorney?


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## Chevaux

One more thing, FFF, I know you're not feeling good about things right now but try and make use of the narly stuff you've heard from this forum as a learning experience -- at the very least it gives you an idea of how it might be when you are in court and duking it out with the other side (metaphorically speaking of course). Don't despair and keep working towards a solution.


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## DraftXDressage

freedomfoundfarm said:


> IT do9es say he wants $25000 for damages he incurded and WILL incur with the horse, no mention of injuries and ya know what...I KNOW I NEED AN ATTORNEY...I KNOW IM GOING W/O one and yes I know a LOT is at stake that I could get screwed because this guy is a scammer!!!


I'm not doubting that's what it says. What I am trying to explain is that, in basically all cases where the precise amount owed to the plaintiff is not clearly defined (so basically everything other than suits for default on a note or breach of a contract with a liquidated damages clause), the plaintiff puts in whatever the jurisdictional amount as a placeholder. That does not mean the plaintiff is seeking that specific amount of money, or that s/he expects to recover that sum if s/he prevails.


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## HorseMom1025

First (((((HUGS))))). I have been watching this thread, but did not speak up because I had nothing constructive to add. However, I wanted to let you know that not everyone believes you are a troll or feels the need to point out stuff that happened in the past.

The fact is, it happened and now you are looking for help.

So, go to the court and talk to the judge. Tell him the facts and ask what you should do. Let them know that you cannot afford an attorney (that you HAVE looked). Show him a record of the attorneys you contacted and what they said. Hopefully, the court can offer guidance and will be willing to do so since you have tried.

Good luck an know that this lady in Texas is sending positive thoughts your way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Speed Racer

Agreed, Draft. They always go for the gold, so to speak. There's no reason to believe he'll get anything.


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## DraftXDressage

FWIW, courthouses often have a "self-help center," where you can go in and have a licensed attorney explain the process to you, help you with forms and checklists for preparing your answer, etc. You should check to see whether such a resource is available in the county where the case is venued. It is a distant second to having your own attorney, but at least they will help clarify what your duties are in responding to the complaint and defending the suit.


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## chrislynnet

That's a very good idea Draft; FFF, I'd check. Also, another thing to think about is getting a paralegal to help you file the paperwork. They can't represent you in court or give you legal advice but they will know the forms you need to fill out and file. BTW I've used NOLO law book series successfully for myself in a couple of situations, but you might be more comfortable with a paralegal.


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## ccbmmom

Keep your head up! Hopefully things will turn out alright. We had a scammer threaten to sue us, but we just couldn't see having to pay a lawyer just to keep from paying the scammer! I don't know if it was the smart thing to do, but we just couldn't afford it either and hoped that if it went to trial that the judge could see how this person was just out for the money. Luckily, it never came to that. She kept threatening (saying she had a lawyer, but we never received any papers from a lawyer) and we kept telling her to just to take us to trial, telling her that she was the one that would look like a fool. It was all just part of her plan to threaten a lawsuit so that we would settle with her just so that we wouldn't have to hire a lawyer to fight her. That was years ago and haven't heard from her since. Hopefully yours will just get dropped also.


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## freedomfoundfarm

Speed Racer said:


> FFF, all the floof aside about trolling, is there any way you can get a count appointed attorney? Since you're obviously unable to afford an attorney, generally the courts will assign one to you.
> 
> This isn't really an equine related case so much, as just an idiot trying to get blood out of turnip for no other reason than he thinks you're unable to fight back.
> 
> The horse just happens to be the vehicle for the lawsuit; it's not really about the horse at all.


Sadly NO....its civil so they do not appoint attorneys unless its criminal. I really am trying to find a way to obtain an attorney, however I cant even find one to do payments. Its truly sad that our justice system works as it does. If you have money....you can almost get away with murder


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## freedomfoundfarm

HorseMom1025 said:


> First (((((HUGS))))). I have been watching this thread, but did not speak up because I had nothing constructive to add. However, I wanted to let you know that not everyone believes you are a troll or feels the need to point out stuff that happened in the past.
> 
> The fact is, it happened and now you are looking for help.
> 
> So, go to the court and talk to the judge. Tell him the facts and ask what you should do. Let them know that you cannot afford an attorney (that you HAVE looked). Show him a record of the attorneys you contacted and what they said. Hopefully, the court can offer guidance and will be willing to do so since you have tried.
> 
> Good luck an know that this lady in Texas is sending positive thoughts your way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


TY TY TY!!! Your support is so very appreciated!!!


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## loveduffy

wow I hope this all works out in your favor god bless you and I will keep you in my prays


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## KarrotKreek

You should be able to get a lawyer to at least draft a response letter for you. They will charge an hourly fee, most likely it will cost you around $200 to have a response letter drafted. Any responses received would be charged at the hourly rate for the lawyer's review. IF this goes to court, that's when the larger amounts start kicking in. 

Change up what you are asking for "services". Explain that you need a response letter and ask for the lawyer to handle correspondence. There are lawyers who will not charge a retainer fee. That's likely the cost you are being quoted. Ask if they charge a retainer fee. Look for one that works on a flat rate or hourly fee. That way you don't have to shovel out for all the expenses up front. And its pay as you go. It's as close to a payment plan as you may get.


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## nikelodeon79

First: as much assistance as you have gotten on this forum PLEASE be careful about posting details of this case online. Anything you say regarding this case is discoverable (the other side can ask probing questions to find out who knows details of the case, etc.) and things you say can be twisted and used against you. It's really best not to say anything on public forums.

Secondly, here is a list of Tennessee legal aid offices/pro bono attorneys: http://apps.americanbar.org/legalservices/probono/directory/tennessee.html

Good luck!


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## xXSweetBreezeXx

I don't know much about laws, as I am not from the states. But like HorseMom1025 I have been watching the thread, and I have my fingers crossed for you and your case, and am looking forward to hearing a positive outcome!
Hugs-Melissa


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## DraftXDressage

> You should be able to get a lawyer to at least draft a response letter for you. They will charge an hourly fee, most likely it will cost you around $200 to have a response letter drafted. Any responses received would be charged at the hourly rate for the lawyer's review. IF this goes to court, that's when the larger amounts start kicking in.
> 
> Change up what you are asking for "services". Explain that you need a response letter and ask for the lawyer to handle correspondence. There are lawyers who will not charge a retainer fee. That's likely the cost you are being quoted. Ask if they charge a retainer fee. Look for one that works on a flat rate or hourly fee. That way you don't have to shovel out for all the expenses up front. And its pay as you go. It's as close to a payment plan as you may get.


She has already received a complaint, meaning that she needs to serve and file a formal answer; a letter will not suffice at this point.


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## Failbhe

Like a few others, I've been following this thread without commenting because I really don't have any advice to offer. I'm sorry you have to go through this and I hope that it gets cleared up sooner rather than later, I can only imagine how it must feel having this hanging over your head.

:hug:


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## Randella

Like many have stated previously, I've been watching this thread but have said nothing due to my inexperience and unfamiliarity with the subject.

All I can say is I hope everything works out for you, and best of luck! We're all cheering for you!


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## Rachel1786

I'm also hoping everything works out. I don't see how he could possibly win with all the documentation you have. 
I'm not knowledgeable when it comes to law, but can you and the vet go to trial together?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WickedNag

I think the OP has left us. Has not been here to visit since 8-7


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## nikelodeon79

WickedNag said:


> I think the OP has left us. Has not been here to visit since 8-7


Either that or they got an attorney and were told NOT to post online about the case. That's certainly the advice we would give at the law firm I work for.


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## Chevaux

nikelodeon79 said:


> Either that or they got an attorney and were told NOT to post online about the case. That's certainly the advice we would give at the law firm I work for.


I hope that is the case.


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## TrojanCowgirl

Any updates, FFF?


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## Runninghot88

Hi was just wondering what the outcome or if anything else has come up.


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## Chevaux

As far as I know (which is very little at best) there has been no further communications. I suppose we'll just have to be patient a little longer.........


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## Adam

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but I wonder if this could of been turned into homeowners insurance? Reason I ask, I was sued regarding a boating incident, but a part of my homeowners policy covered things similar to this, and my insurance company's lawyers handled everything for me. 

Hope everything works out!


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## TimberRidgeRanch

I have been following the thread and hoping to hear good news. I havent posted any responses to what is going on simply because I wanted to know more before doing so. I do know that when buying a horse its not like buying a car and the breaks go. We are talking about a animal with a mind. With all that she has as far as paper work copies of emails etc etc and bill of sale. Which Im sure the guys lawyer has not even seen yet is going to make this case go out the window. Contracts and emails of refusing to go see the horse is enough for any smart judge to look at the guy and say YOUR A IDIOT! he has no leg to stand on with this and like some have said anyone can sue anyone doesnt mean the person will win most cases are tossed when it comes to things like this. what exactly does he have other then the horse? She has copies of contract etc etc. He may have money and chances are hes going to waste it. 
I wish her luck and may the law be on her side.

TRR


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## eliduc

The thing that is really fishy about this is that the buyer continued to contact you after an attorney served a complaint on you. It appears he is trying to scare you into a settlement. Ordinarily, your contact would be through his attorney. If the attorney has knowledge of this harassment he might be liable for an ethics complaint to the state bar. You might check with your state bar association to see if the attorney has had complaints filed against him or action taken against him by the state bar. It's far out but the attorney could be part of the scam if there is one. It could be a scam but there are nut cases that will file a suit that has little or no chance of succeeding.


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## Saddlebag

Usually an attorney will warn a client to refrain from contact with the other party. If this guy is so far off center that he's asking for a huge settlement, it wouldn't come as a surprise that he's taken this upon himself despite the warning. On the other hand, as previously mentioned, perhaps there's a plan to split the pot. When I was facing a legal issue it proved advantageous to get a lawyer who carried more social status than the other party. It also is advantageous to go in to court dressed to the nines.


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## eliduc

Over the past year I have advertised a truck and a boat for sale on Craig's List. The same scam artist replies to every ad and the reply is almost identical to the one described here. He offers to buy the item at full price. He can't come and pick it up himself because he is away on business. He is buying it for his son etc. I replied that the item would only be sold for cash in a face to face transaction. I was surprised when he emailed back and tried to persuade me to accept a Pay Pal payment. I also received a telephone call along the same lines. When I asked the guy if he was calling from Nigeria he went into a profanity rage and even called back when I hung up on him. It was pretty funny but this isn't. I would report this guy to your state Justice Department's Division of Consumer Affairs. You can probably file a complaint online. They are required to investigate the complaint. The darker side of this is that many of these scams are raising money for terrorist groups such as the Taliban. You might check with the court clerk to make sure the complaint was even filed.


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## churumbeque

eliduc said:


> Over the past year I have advertised a truck and a boat for sale on Craig's List. The same scam artist replies to every ad and the reply is almost identical to the one described here. He offers to buy the item at full price. He can't come and pick it up himself because he is away on business. He is buying it for his son etc. I replied that the item would only be sold for cash in a face to face transaction. I was surprised when he emailed back and tried to persuade me to accept a Pay Pal payment. I also received a telephone call along the same lines. When I asked the guy if he was calling from Nigeria he went into a profanity rage and even called back when I hung up on him. It was pretty funny but this isn't. I would report this guy to your state Justice Department's Division of Consumer Affairs. You can probably file a complaint online. They are required to investigate the complaint. The darker side of this is that many of these scams are raising money for terrorist groups such as the Taliban. You might check with the court clerk to make sure the complaint was even filed.


 Why wouldn't you accept a paypal payment? Pay Pal guarantees the funds that is why you use paypal. I would be ****ed to if I was a legitimate buyer and you wouldn't take my money.


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## ozarkmama

People can scam through Paypal too. I had a lady come into my store to ship an expensive piece of jewelry that she sold on Craigslist. The buyer paid with Paypal. She came back later the same day to pick up the package (luckily it hadn't shipped yet). PayPal contacted her and told her the transaction was fraudulent. If you sell something expensive through Paypal don't get in a hurry to ship it, wait a few days to make sure the payment clears.


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## JustDressageIt

It can take a while for funds to clear through PayPal just like through a bank. When I sold a saddle on payments, each payment made to me via PayPal had to be held to clear for 5 days.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Golden Horse

churumbeque said:


> Why wouldn't you accept a paypal payment? Pay Pal guarantees the funds that is why you use paypal. I would be ****ed to if I was a legitimate buyer and you wouldn't take my money.



Because she had already said cash and face to face?

If she lost a a legitimate buyer, then it sucks, but you have to be careful these days.

I like paypal, it's the easiest way to do a distance transaction, but nothing in the world beats good cash and a face to face handover, preferably at one persons home.


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## jess93

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sharpie

Agreed- when I sold my utility trailer, I would only take cash, and said so right in the ad. A few people tried to get me to change my mind, but really, it's just not worth it. Now, if it was something long distance, I would consider paypal, but would stipulate that the item Would Not Ship until funds had been cleared.


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## loveduffy

I hope the horse is alright you know how some people are with things they do not wont


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## TrojanCowgirl

PayPal isn't always reliable, and I recently learned neither is Ebay costumer protection... whatever. I'm moving to Amazon, just sayin'.

Whenever I sell something, I always wait a few days before I ship it.

I've had people send fraudulent money before. Not fun, I finally got something out of them.

Another time was recently, I had sent out the item when I said I would and the day it was shipped, the buyer opened a case against me and demanded the item AND a full refund. Luckily I won that case, but there are a ton of scammers all over the place.


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## Cowboy Ringo

This is exactly the reason i dont do animal sales over the internet.
Also, when i sale a horse, i make sure 100% the pay is in full that day AS IS, and the customer has to take the horse out of the barn and load it himself. 
Its the only sure way.


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## liv885

I just read all posts and hope that all is going well for the OP. It has made me research consumer legislation for my state and what consumer protection covers (private sales). So just wanted to say thanks now I'm more up to date on laws here when I finally buy or sell a horse.


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## Corporal

When I bought my gelding the breeders required a bank cashier's check for payment at the time I took ownership. Good way to go.


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## Speed Racer

Corporal said:


> When I bought my gelding the breeders required a bank cashier's check for payment at the time I took ownership. Good way to go.


Those can also be forged Corporal, so there's no guarantee that a cashier's check is more safe than any other type of payment.


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