# Great trail with Kodak and question about loose dogs



## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

When I lived in Southern California there were loose BIG dogs everywhere. Some were indeed aggressive.

I was told to carry a squirt gun full of water and blast the dogs in the face. While that did work wonderfully, it wasn't enough for me, lollol

I had my Dukie-Duke back then, who was born wearing a no-fear T-shirt. I taught him that, when I lowered the reins and said "GET THEM!", he should go after the dogs.

He would put his head down and charge them. I taught Rusty to do the same thing, as he he always has been the one to chase stray dogs out of the pasture.

With Kodak being timid, buy yourself the biggest squirt gun you are comfortable carrying on a horse and shoot, shoot the dogs in the face with water and fiercely holler "get back!" at them.

You can talk to the owners of the dogs until your face turns purple and the likelihood of getting any co-operation out of them will be slim and none


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

When I'm by myself, I go armed: PepperBlaster II (Red)

It's not an aerosol, so while you won't be hitting your horse (unless you shoot over his head), you do have to aim for the substance to hit. On the bright side, once it does hit, it'll really keep the dog busy.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

@Acadianartist Big dogs can cause a horse to spin and bolt - a trail run with your friends dogs may not be a bad idea. Most horses tolerate large non-aggressive dogs pretty well. 

I have carried squirt guns with water and lemon juice in them to try to "sting" the dog in the eye. Bear spray would drift back to your horse and cause its own issues

I have found that generally screaming at the dog and yelling does help and getting the heck out of dodge helps. Do this at a walk as some dogs will chase a horse that turns and runs away.

Unfortunately there is no tried and true way to desensitize to an aggressive dog.

But! Just wanted to let you know that I smiled when I saw your post subject! So happy that you are out on Kodak and riding the trails.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

You are wise to be aware of this situation, even if your horse is used to dogs, if you are in an area where the horse is a little nervous anyway, the dogs can sure add to the confusion.
It's a good idea to get horses used to big dogs in a controlled environment as you are thinking of doing. The more exposure to dogs the better.
If a dog comes running out I will order it back in a very stern voice, they don't usually attack or anything but will circle around behind the horse which I don't like. I have turned the horse around to face the dog and chased them away.
Best if the horse is used to dogs and then not react too much to them.


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## GMA100 (Apr 8, 2016)

My mare does the same thing as Walkinthewalks horses were taught to. It it the best! Ok, well my sister doesn't think it's funny when I sit back on my mare and tell her to "get her" . It's not aggressive, just following her around, she will trot, turn around etc whenever I say to "get" the living being in front of us! It comes in handy with cows and dogs lol.


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

I think it might be a good idea to introduce Kodak to some larger dogs.....that way she might not completely lose it seeing one on the trail. 

I have had dogs come out and bark at me while I'm riding. If they just stay in the yard barking that's fine, but I have turned toward them and chased them back home if I feel they are getting too close. 

Only once did a dog scare the crap out of my horse....it came out of a tall field of grass charging towards us barking. I was so angry and swore I would spray that stupid dog with bear spray next time. It is a neighbors dog though, so not sure that would go over so well. It may sound bad but I hope that dog dies of old age soon b/c I really dislike it.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

I am too klutzy to carry or use spray. I just carry my Growly Authoritative Voice, which has the backing of a lifetime of dealing with resistant animals. I say "Hyaaah. You Go Home. Git." Normally I can blow a dog back just with that. Dogs unfamiliar with horses can be amazed to discover that weird-shaped giant beast has the voice of a human being!

Normal dogs will be defending a territory. Their aggressive display will decrease the farther you get from its boundary (which perhaps only they can see). If possible I move away at a dignified controlled pace. Normal dogs will understand you are peaceably passing through and their barking is just warning you to keep moving. 

Of course, those are normal dogs. Abnormal dogs are another thing entirely.


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

walkinthewalk said:


> When I lived in Southern California there were loose BIG dogs everywhere. Some were indeed aggressive.
> 
> I was told to carry a squirt gun full of water and blast the dogs in the face. While that did work wonderfully, it wasn't enough for me, lollol
> 
> ...


LOL Walk thats so funny. Jax is the SAME way! He'll ignore dogs if I tell him to but if we have a trail dog riding with us....or if a dog he doesn't know gets in his paddock he'll try and get them! So I'm pretty sure if a stray dog did come at us it wouldn't take much convincing on my part to get him to go after it!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

yesterday I took X out for a ride, and for the first time, I just rode him in a halter. he was perfect, and was even more responsive than in a bit! 

but, when I passed a lady with a schitzy dog, I was a bit worried. X has kicked at dogs before, so I warned her to keep a hold on the dog's leash. Well, after I'd passed her and ambled down the trail , I hear her yelling at the dog, and here he comes, blasting up behind me. (he'd pulled away from her) I thought X would either kick it, or dash off. but all he did was flinch and pin his ears. 
whew! I was more worried than he was. I think being worried yourself can make your horse more worried. 
but, then, it's hard to know what's going to happen when the dog is charging toward your horse's hind end.


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

We have lots of loose dogs around. People out here are just not good at keeping their dogs on a leash. We even have some feral packs. How the horses respond I think has a lot to do with their past experiences. Oliver and Caspian both (our primary trail horses) are "attack" horses when it comes to dogs. 

In the few situations where we have encountered a lone dog who is aggressive, both horses will stop, face the dog and then if the dog continues, and left to their own devices, will charge right at them. Usually the dog backs off and is very careful afterwards about getting too close. We then calmly turn and walk away. I keep an eye on the dog and prepare for a rear end kick if the dumb thing decides to get too close again. 

A group of dogs acting as a pack are a different story though, I have also seen Oliver and Caspian with the help of the others run the occasional feral pack off in the pasture.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

mmshiro said:


> When I'm by myself, I go armed: PepperBlaster II (Red)
> 
> It's not an aerosol, so while you won't be hitting your horse (unless you shoot over his head), you do have to aim for the substance to hit. On the bright side, once it does hit, it'll really keep the dog busy.


Looks promising, but pepper spray is very controlled in Canada and I'm betting that thing is not getting past the border check 

Best I can do is carry "bear spray", which a lot of people carry when they're alone in the woods for a variety of uses (my friend takes hers when she goes camping alone in campgrounds and it ain't for protecting herself against bears!). But as some have pointed out, the broad spray is likely to get in Kodak's face as much as in the dog's.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

So it doesn't sound like there is a simple solution to this problem.

I'll expose her to my friend's large dogs to see what happens. I like the idea of turning her towards the dogs because I'm guessing they would back off in most cases. That, along with a big voice. I agree that trying to run away from the dogs would only engage them.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

carshon said:


> @Acadianartist
> 
> But! Just wanted to let you know that I smiled when I saw your post subject! So happy that you are out on Kodak and riding the trails.


Aww thanks! Yes, it was a great confidence-building ride for both of us! Didn't start out that way, but I'm glad I decided to explore another area because it ended on a really good note. Kodak prefers when Harley is with us, but Harley is kind of a mess out on the trail, so I need Kodak to step up and be a leader! She did well today, and that makes me really happy! She's the kind of horse that does better when ridden a lot though. I have to try to take her out as much as I can because there is such a big difference!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Best thing to do, when a dog comes charging out at you, JMo, is have your horse face that dog, yell at that dog, and then ask the horse to run at the dog.
The dog will usually run back wherever it came from, and your horse gains confidence, knowing he can make that dog move
The worst thing you can do, is let that dog run up behind your horse-turn your horse to face that dog.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I carry pepper spray with me but could only use it effectively if the horse I was riding was remaining calm and solid
We've got dogs, including one quite large one, that bark way too much so none of ours are afraid of barking dogs or of dogs that run around and they think chasing a dog, fox or a coyote to be a fun sport but I'm not sure what they'd do if a dog turned into an attacker. 
Would they suddenly revert to being the prey animal when faced with a real predator?
We had to go past a very aggressive large dog on the trails one day last year, it was leashed but it really did mean business and I'm sure it would have attacked if it had been loose. We were on a narrow track so Honey went as close to it as she could without it actually being able to reach her and she ignored all of its threats but still not sure what she'd have done if it had been able to bite her.


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## Caledonian (Nov 27, 2016)

It wasn’t until one of mine was kept next to buildings with two Dobermans, that I got a desensitised horse. He would still jump (as did I) when they’d come barrelling out of bushes but he became aloof or bored of dogs out on rides. I’ve never been able to get that level of immersion since. 

Here, dog owners risk a lot if they are identified as having allowed their animals to get out of control and dogs have been put to sleep following reports to the police. 

I’ve been lucky with dogs so far but I’d try to go with the BHS suggestions: to stay calm and if possible, put distance between the horse and dog (at a controlled speed); if being attacked, to allow the horse to defend itself, which may mean that it turns it’s back on the dog; to keep the horse’s vulnerable head and neck away from it; and, when safe, find a way to identify the dog or owner (easier if it’s a domestic animal). We’re also told to report any incidents, regardless of how small, to the police. 

I’d agree with the others, that it’s a whole different ball game if it’s a pack.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

When I go trail riding, my dog (in the past, 3 dogs, all got old and passed) comes with me, in case of bears and cougars and the worst of the worse - GROUSE! Those birds are crazy, they will stay put until you almost walk upon them, then they fly up and sometimes attack. My dog flushes them out of the trail.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

I prefer wasp spray with the long red slim nozzle. No spray back in wlindy conditions like pepper or bear spray. I keep it in a water bottle holder clips to my saddle with the red nozzle at the ready.

My Arab will chase and strike out if needed though.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

I like the idea of turning Kodak to face the dog, should one ever get close. Obviously, we are talking about a situation where a dog could likely be deterred. If it's going to attack, then it's a different ball game, but one where Kodak would be allowed to defend herself as she sees fit (ie, turning to kick, etc.). A pack would be an entirely different story, but hopefully that will never happen. 

Intrigued by the wasp spray idea though...


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

We have a lot of strays around here, so the horses are all sensitized to their eyeballs. We even have a local pack casually meandering down the school very often and they like to take their spot in the middle and watch us ride. And we have the barn cats lined up on the gate so it's all rather cute.

There are two parts to the equation: sensitizing your horse, which can only be done with exposure to dogs, and warding off aggressive dogs.

For aggressive dogs, both on foot and mounted I start by cooing to them in a baby voice, being very friendly and happy. It solves 99% of the encounters. I also carry kibble on me, and throw it at dogs and that sorts out the remaining 1%. My guess is that food only works on stray dogs because they are usually hungry (poor souls). We generally don't get pets roaming around so I'm not sure how to work with them.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Horsef said:


> We have a lot of strays around here, so the horses are all sensitized to their eyeballs. We even have a local pack casually meandering down the school very often and they like to take their spot in the middle and watch us ride. And we have the barn cats lined up on the gate so it's all rather cute.
> 
> There are two parts to the equation: sensitizing your horse, which can only be done with exposure to dogs, and warding off aggressive dogs.
> 
> For aggressive dogs, both on foot and mounted I start by cooing to them in a baby voice, being very friendly and happy. It solves 99% of the encounters. I also carry kibble on me, and throw it at dogs and that sorts out the remaining 1%. My guess is that food only works on stray dogs because they are usually hungry (poor souls). We generally don't get pets roaming around so I'm not sure how to work with them.


Huh, now there's a different approach! But if you throw them food, won't they just follow you hoping for more? Maybe I could start with firmly telling them NO!, and turning Kodak to face them, and using the kibble as a last resort to distract them while we calmly walk out of their territory. 

But yes, I will start desensitizing. The neighbors also have a big black dog that sounds scary, but doesn't attack (they have horses themselves). He might come running at us with his big bark, but at least I know he's not truly aggressive. I could ask the neighbors to be nearby and ride over to their property, letting the dog come at us and working on Kodak just ignoring it. 

Thanks for all the great advice! I know I can't prepare for every single possibility (bears, rutting moose that think my horse is a cow moose...), but long gone are the days when I nonchalantly rode into the woods without a thought for safety. Especially since I'm going to be taking my 12 year old along, on her jiggy horse.


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

Acadianartist said:


> Huh, now there's a different approach! But if you throw them food, won't they just follow you hoping for more? .


Well, kibble scatters so they spend some time sniffing around for it and by the time they finish, I'm out of their territory. I think it really depends on the type of dog you have roaming around. Strays are different to pets. Pets might chase a horse because it's something fun to do, much more fun than boring old kibble. Strays are just busy surviving so they usually don't go out of their way looking for trouble, at least around here. I'm not saying all strays are like that, just most in my experience.

Pets might respond to commands, like a firm NO or SIT. I used that a few times I was accosted by large offleash dominant males when walking my dogs, one of whom is also a large dominant male. Standing between three seated large dogs intent on each other is not fun :/ Eventually the owner of the other dog showed up and rescued me.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Did the same trail again this afternoon with my daughter and Harley in tow! Not literally. I wasn't ponying him or anything, but Kodak led the way. Harley was jiggy, and Kodak a little nervous because it was windy, but we got through it, and my daughter loved the new trail! Seems Harley is happier if he doesn't have to cross water. Something he'll have to get over eventually, but every positive experience takes us one step closer to fulfilling our dreams of having two solid trail horses. And we didn't run into any savage, horse-eating dogs either  

My goal is now going to be to expand our trail gradually so that the horses can feel just as comfortable on new trails as they do on the little loop around our property. I'm thinking that if we could eventually loop all the way around and go through water on the way BACK towards home, Harley would come to associate that crossing with a happy place and be much more eager to cross there. 

Wish I had through to take pictures, but as always, I was too busy just making sure everyone was ok. Will try next time. It really is a cute little trail and our neighbor keeps it neatly trimmed. There are a few low-lying branches, but nothing we can't duck under or walk around.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

Nice to hear you had a good ride, many more of them will only help to improve the quality of your rides.

On one of our rides there is a small hunting hut set up by the woods and at the edge of a field, it has large open windows on three sides with drapes hanging on the outside of the windows and on a windy day these curtains flap right out and practically blow into the horses face. There is only a narrow path past this hut and when I take a horse out to meet it for the first time I plan my ride so the horse has had a fair good workout and is on the way home plus a non windy day if possible. Plan your battles for success is my theory.

It's really nice that you have these trails right on your doorstep.

It's really nice that you have these trails right on your doorstep. 

Getting out for rides is great for you and your daughter and sure helps to keep the horses from becoming stale from all that ring work. A good balance is the way to go.


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

Acadianartist said:


> Intrigued by the wasp spray idea though...


If you choose to carry this or any other spraying/squirting thing (including a water pistol), make sure you practice _a lot_ at home.. because the hissing sound of the aerosol spraying or the sudden appearance of a jet of water shooting past the eye of an already-on-alert horse may well be the last straw in an already upsetting situation.

My guy is pretty noise reactive and has also unfortunately been attacked by loose dogs on trail. I have worked with him on facing dogs (or any other surprise wildlife) and moving at them (also using the GET IT verbal cue). I cannot imagine trying to get out a can of spray in such a moment.. and if I did, I suspect we may no longer be occupying the same space once I triggered it.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

waresbear said:


> When I go trail riding, my dog (in the past, 3 dogs, all got old and passed) comes with me, in case of bears and cougars and the worst of the worse - GROUSE! Those birds are crazy, they will stay put until you almost walk upon them, then they fly up and sometimes attack. My dog flushes them out of the trail.



Actually, in our Alberta National Parks, you are not allowed to ride with dogs, for the very reason that they will bring a bear back to you, very often!
The instinct of a dog, when faced with something he fee;s threatened by, is to come back to you
We used to always take our dog along on rides, still do, but I am aware that the dog can just as easily bring a predator back to you and the hroses, then chase it away!
It was not abear our dog once brought back out of the trees, to within a few feet of our horses, but an angry cow elk. She must have had a calf in those trees. The horses were not impressed!
That path was the only way by, with a rock cliff on the one side, and abig drop off, on the side of that strip of trees. Each time we tried to ride by, she would come charging back out.
Finally, my son galloped his three year old by, while calling the dog. Down the trail went my son, dog at the heels of his horse, and cow elk close behind
Once that cow elk decided the dog was far enough away, she doubled back, and we had no problem passing that spot without the dog
You might be okay with a cougar, esp with more then one dog, but some do prey on medium size dogs, and in fact , the Indian reservation near Banff had a problem with a cougar that was hanging around, feasting on their dogs
Those grouse are great de spookers, and our horses pretty much spook in place, even when one flies up practically right under their nose
On the other hand, our dog chased a rabbit (a stupid one, I think someone released out west ) right under my horse Carmen., who just sort of humped up a bit. Good thing I was not riding Charlie!
Then there is the feral horses! Some bachelor studs got too nervy one year, not taking no for an answer. I told my dog to 'get em'. It was like, 'that is a trick command, right?. I'm not allowed to chase horses!"
I prefer hubby along with a gun, but now it bothers him to have that scabbard under his leg, so in non hunting season, he leaves it most times in the trailer. They should make hand guns legal for riding in Canada, out west< JMO!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

phantomhorse13 said:


> If you choose to carry this or any other spraying/squirting thing (including a water pistol), make sure you practice _a lot_ at home.. because the hissing sound of the aerosol spraying or the sudden appearance of a jet of water shooting past the eye of an already-on-alert horse may well be the last straw in an already upsetting situation.
> 
> My guy is pretty noise reactive and has also unfortunately been attacked by loose dogs on trail. I have worked with him on facing dogs (or any other surprise wildlife) and moving at them (also using the GET IT verbal cue). I cannot imagine trying to get out a can of spray in such a moment.. and if I did, I suspect we may no longer be occupying the same space once I triggered it.


There is that,! When that cow elk came charging out, behind our dog, and I am busy controlling my spinning horse, who has thoughts of getting out of "Dodge', my husband yells, 'honey, get a picture!"
Yah right, I am going to haul that camera out of my saddle bags, while holding the reins between my teeth and get that photo op!
One reason I don't carry Bear spray, as I might just as easily incapacitate myself, esp with wind blowing in the wrong direction.


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