# Why so few Male coaches and career question



## Jipner16 (Apr 30, 2018)

So this may be a bit of a rambly post but just looking for some conversation on this topic. I am a 20 year old guy starting to work with people's horses in attempting to train them to meet the desires of the owners if possible. In being around horses in a couple different countries mostly involved in the English discipline I have found it really flooded with the female gender and we all know generally why, but why do you think so few guys end up as coaches in your mid range horse world. Meaning not professional coaches and competing but at the level of your typical horse barn. I know ranching and the rodeo draws a lot of guys if they are going to be involved with horses, but what have you found. I would say that it is challenging for me to feel generally comfortable where I can just be myself when it is just you and the girls and the only guys you run into are the boyfriends and dads. 

The second part of it is just a question of the viability of being a traveling trainer. One who will go to the horse and teach both the horse and the owner how to progress through certain issue instead of sending your horse away for a month or two. Is that a viable way of making money full time with a good client base? I am asking for people who actually have done it and not so much just for speculation. So far a week or two into it I have 5 clients with 1 -5 horses each who need work.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

I don't know why this is so, but in Hispanic countries, only boys and men are interested in horses. I used to live in Ecuador and Puerto Rico and found this to be true. As an adult, I taught school with predominantly children from El Salvador, and only the boys liked horses or had interest in riding. Almost no girls did. It must be some kind of cultural thing.

I now live in N. Florida and find that there are many more men who ride in this area than where I lived in Maryland. When I go riding with a group of friends in Florida, I find that I might be the only woman riding in the group. If there are women, there are often an equal mix of men and women. Never the case in Maryland. Hmmmm.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

Definitely a self-reinforcing local cultural thing. Just look at field hockey - a sport for manly men in Aussie, India, Pakistan, and Europe, but almost exclusively a girls' sport at US high schools.

To me, the "pretty horse, pretty outfit" aspect of horse riding is a turn-off. There are two reasons why I clean my horse: so it doesn't have debris under the saddle or the girth, and to get off sweat, dead hair, and other irritants. I couldn't care less if she rolled a minute after washing her, and I certainly spend less on riding attire than on horse shampoo. That's me personally - I can't extrapolate to the male population as a whole, but it definitely is less of a concern for Western-style riding. On the other hand, I do like the English tack more.

If I gave my horse to a trainer, I'd need to see a lot more credentials than you seem to offer, to be quite blunt. All you say is that you are 20 years old, but you give no reference about successful apprenticeships, a track record of training horses, especially difficult horses, under supervision, etc. The mere fact that you ask these questions about the career indicates that you haven't even spoken to anyone who's been doing this for a living for some time.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

In the US, I see three kinds of male coaches. First, in the classic Western arena and rodeo competitions, except for barrel racing and western pleasure, men dominate. Second, at highest level jumping and eventing, there are plenty of men. Third, in the western-style spin-offs of Natural Horsemanship and Western Dressage, you'll see a lot of men, probably because the founders are mostly men. 

Getting into teaching as a career, in the horse business, means you generally have to have a lot of experience and success in the discipline/s you are offering, before you hang out a shingle. A mentor is pretty essential, as well.


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## Jipner16 (Apr 30, 2018)

mmshiro said:


> If I gave my horse to a trainer, I'd need to see a lot more credentials than you seem to offer, to be quite blunt. All you say is that you are 20 years old, but you give no reference about successful apprenticeships, a track record of training horses, especially difficult horses, under supervision, etc.



Like sheesh man, does it seem like I am trying to promote myself here and see if it is viable for me? Did I give you all the information about my qualifications? I am asking is it viable in general, and does anyone do it. Specifically traveling to the place where the horse is being kept. So am I going to be training the next baloubet de rout? No, try to give some helpful information instead of bashing. I get that I have a lot to learn, but everyone does and if you think someone thinks they have it all together than they are going to get a big wake up call.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Agree with @Avan.

Being a teacher requires more social skills than being a horse trainer. If you just basically want to train a hrose, you don't even have to ever say one single human word. But, if you want to teach the humans that handle that horse, you will need a whole different skill set. A complimentary skill set.

It can be very challenging to put into human words things like 'feel', when talking about horses. Those that can do this well will make good teachers. Woman are usually better able to sense what the listener is feeling, i, e, where they might be lost or confused. 

On the other hand, men are generally better at projecting believable authority, believalbe to both horses and humans, so often are automatically more respected as teachers.

I think the thing is to be open about the limits of your own experience, but not apologetic. Even at 20, you are likely to know things that your client doesn't. And, even the most experienced horse trainer makes mistakes . We all do.

Just let them know you feel confident you can help them, but that you will be honest with them if you come to the place where your current lifetime experience is tapped out, and a more experienced trainer is needed.

I know lots of folks who would love to have a 'big brother' come and help them through some rough times with their horses. We literally have two horses at our barn, now, who could use that brother.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

As far as your question about trainers going to the horse instead of the other way around, I think it is not common for a number of reasons. For one thing, a trainer will generally have a superior facility, and all their favorite props right there. If they are training a horse rather than a rider, they will want to put in a lot of hours -- most trainers will train a horse almost every day. That's a lot of travel time. As for teaching riders, unless it is extremely local, traveling is usually a clinic type of thing -- a day or several days, people either all boarding at the same barn or congregating at a large facility. Otherwise it's hard to see how it would be worthwhile financially, for the instructor.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

Jipner16 said:


> Like sheesh man, does it seem like I am trying to promote myself here and see if it is viable for me? Did I give you all the information about my qualifications? I am asking is it viable in general, and does anyone do it. Specifically traveling to the place where the horse is being kept. So am I going to be training the next baloubet de rout? No, try to give some helpful information instead of bashing. I get that I have a lot to learn, but everyone does and if you think someone thinks they have it all together than they are going to get a big wake up call.


Your career chances are directly correlated to your qualifications, are they not? So if you ask about your chances in this career, your qualifications are relevant to give you accurate information. 

Does "anyone" do it? Yes. So what? There are people who are concert pianists, but knowing this has nothing to do whether I can become a concert pianist.

I am not concerned about whether you feel bashed, _I am concerned about the horses_ that may be entrusted to your care, without a second pair of eyes, while you have "a lot to learn".


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

By travel, do you mean local travel or go anywhere? For local travel - the lady who worked with me and my horses did both home training and going to the person. Depended on what the person wanted. I liked having her come to our place and work with us here. But lots of her clients wanted to drop off their horses.

She worked as a school teacher and worked with horses in her free time, slowly building up a reputation as someone who could work tough problems successfully. When she thought she had enough business, she quit teaching school and went full time.


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## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

I trained bomb dogs and exotic animals for tv and film. I retired my company so I could go into nursing due to some very private life altering life experiences. I STILL train animals regularly. I have exactly zero degrees. I initially got an interview aged 18 with a top airline and did a demo with an untrained dog and their chief trainer. Be ready to have some simple, easy tricks up your sleeve for when you're asked on the spot to prove something or some common problem The people who here say its about social skills, reputation (mainly word of mouth) and networking are 100% correct. You also have to absolutely document every. single. bit. of. progress. If you wanna make it from scratch you can't just blase say "I got a horse ride ready" for example. People want a website, VIDEO proof of before and afters and with you dealing with issues. There is a market to train animals where the owner couldn't give two POOS about their own knowledge and if you wanna earn be open to that kind of job. And seriously... you need your core training values as obvious to every potential customer. What makes you so different, so special and why should they take a risk on you? It is mostly business sav and then afterwards ... can you provide the product.

Degrees are overrated. Most people these days just want you to have a degree for the sake of having a degree, never mind which one. As if it's proof that you're willing to slave away like the rest of the sheep. BUT there are degrees that absolutely are necessary for a certain line of work. You can't just be a backyard surgeon. And degrees do make things easier in current society. Having being trained a set way is great for a potential employer. Not gonna lie, an English teacher with an English or teaching degree is probably gonna get the job over you. Be prepared to slave away and picked last for several years before you have enough PROOF OF WORTH to change peoples minds. 

And if you cannot have your own on-site facility travelling at the start to scout potential business is fine. I would try find somewhere that you could "rent" for a year. Come up with some sort of deal to test the waters - and get proof of potential for a business loan. That is if you're truly starting from scratch. Be very realistic. Get a website - I made mine from scratch. It has to be informative not fancy. Use youtube and even if you get 1 like... keep posting so anyone who looks you up sees you aren't a quitter.

Like Tiny said be open about your experience and not apologetic. If you come across as shy or insecure you will lose business. At 19 I was having to work with some really top end directors for some very well known films. Where I was crapping my pants I actually had to pretend to be super confident in my ability, even if I inwardly was a bit unsure if I could pull it off. 


Sorry this was a very disjointed ranty type response. Good luck!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Definitely more women than men in my part of the world. The only male trainer I know is Western, and I do see more men in Western than English, which is pretty exclusively female. 

I've paid to have people come help re-train my horse, and was glad to do so. It's hard to find someone willing to do that here, so I ended up signing up for an online course, which was fantastic. I prefer to have someone come to me rather than send my horse away, but I may not be typical. I figure there isn't any point in having a horse that is good with a trainer, but falls apart again when I handle it and ride it, so I need to learn right along with my horse. Around here though, it seems more people send their horses away for 30 or 60 days, and expect a perfect, polished horse back. Me, I wouldn't trust anyone to do it right, especially given that my sensitive, spooky mare had a bad past. 

So I think there is a market for what you're selling, but of course as everyone points out, it depends on your skills. It also depends on your fees. Expect to keep it low to start out. Build up a reputation. A trainer who came out to desensitize my horse was only charging me 30$ per session. And she had a pretty good drive (30 min.) to get here. I often gave her little extras to show my appreciation.


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

I was actually thinking about this the other day - why I see so few men trainers. I suppose they are out there, but I think it really depends on discipline. At the barn I ride at, my trainer is a female and I don't think I ever saw a male at that place (aside from the trainer's husband). I recently attended the Mane Event, and it was interesting to note that probably 80% of the people there were female. 


As for travelling to a client's barn - this makes sense if the client has a really good set up. For myself, I prefer to trailer my horse to my trainer's - they have the tools and the set up to work efficiently and safely.


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## Jipner16 (Apr 30, 2018)

Ok let me start over and give some more information. So I was first introduced to horses when I was 13 and I began volunteering in South America for a chance to be taught and eventually ride. I was there at the club 4-5 days a week for 3 years working with a trainer who has had his students make it to the Brazilian Olympic team in jumping. So I would say I learned from the best. The most important things he taught me were to do things the best you can for the horse and also for the people you are working with/for, but he showed me that one has to have their own standards and to uphold those no matter what pressure or drama happens because of it. I am sure you know of how ruthless the horse world gets. His horses were some of the most well trained I have encountered in all the places I have been. In regards to training he knew his horses through and through to the point where he could tell you exactly what was causing a them a bad day and even had an automatic halt whistle for his lesson horses. So as to my qualifications? Well in recent years I have spent the last 2 summers teaching kids to ride at a ranch camp for 5-6 hours a day in being able to use what I learned from sitting in on hundreds of classes with my coach. So the few horses I am working with now is kind of an experiment that fell into my lap when I asked about the viability of people wanting a visiting trainer catering towards the people on their own farms that may not have the time or expertise to work on their horses. Again that was JUST a question as to the viability of it on a facebook horse page that kind of blew up with a number of different people contacting me and wanting my help. I didn't charge much at the start or promise big huge changes but I told them what I saw as far as the horse was at and heard what they hoped would be the end result and told them what I was capable of doing and showed that through my work. So I was not claiming to be able to train professional reigning horses but I could desensitize a horse and work on their responsiveness to be safer during trailrides. I was also able to take out the spring energy of horses and bring them back into a good place when the owner was concerned about dealing with that because of their injury not allowing for the risk of a worse injury. so all of this is very much looking to the future where I hope to get my riding levels here in Canada and begin getting certified as a coach all in the midst of schooling. So do I expect to change the horse world as of right now, but I know I work hard, I do my best, and when I run into something I can't handle, I admit it and then learn from those who know better. Hope that helps. So yes word of mouth has already happened with a few of my clients.


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## pennywise (Feb 1, 2016)

mmshiro said:


> I am not concerned about whether you feel bashed, _I am concerned about the horses_ that may be entrusted to your care, without a second pair of eyes, while you have "a lot to learn".


I mean, to be fair, they didn't make a post asking if they were qualified to do this and because of that (I assume) they left out their resume and experience. but tbh I don't know how much experience a 20 year old _can _have unless they've been apprenticing a while. That seems really hard to do though... I'm 22 and my life, at least ,has put me no where close to thinking that I could train a horse. I certainly don't know any who could, anyway. The story could be different though (and if it is, I'd be incredibly jealous.)

But.. @ OP... this is the main kind of question you're going to get. You're describing something like a clinic, but clinics are given by accomplished people who show up at a town and get random folks attending their training sessions because they've been in the industry long enough to make an impact. I don't think you would have a steady job if you start out by trying to do that... how do those people know that they're going to get a trained horse? How do they know that your work is quality? You may have to wait a little bit before you do that. But if you are able to stick with it long term and you have lots of training success, I imagine the testimonials would definitely show people that you're worth their time. It's all about marketing your skills and knowing how to convince people that they want to hire you. Not to mention, the pricing... sending a horse off for training is expensive and no one wants to risk losing money on a faulty trainer. Heck, people wont even buy things off Amazon if there's no ratings or feedback yet. Not one wants to be the guinea pig. 

As far as male coaches.... I knew of a grand total of one male coach. He worked (still does?) at a large facility that hosted all the pony club shows. We hated him (he was really handsy....:icon_rolleyes Other then that, I follow a few people on Instagram who have male trainers. There's too many women. Women are everywhere. I'm sick of it lol There are two guys that board at my barn and, I'm not joking, they come by an our before it closes and I wouldn't be surprised if its to avoid all us barn witches.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Even as a traveling trainer you will have a base (where you live) and then a limit for the number of miles away any one horse can be to keep your costs from biting into your profits. IMO there aren't going to be a rash of owners that consider a one time session as the end all be all and cure the ill they are seeking to cure so you'll need to manage your time to accommodate those that you do make agreements with so you can make repeat visits especially if you are starting horses that is never a one and done situation. Once you have a name then clinics may be the answer for you where the local owners (singly or in a small group) come to a preset location and work with you. I say this because one client, unless your charge is way to much for most to pay, at a time isn't going to be enough to pay your bills. I know many farriers that will travel from area to area and spend a few days working with the owners splitting travel/living expenses to make it worth while.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

Seems to me that it takes experience, knowledge, talent, results and the ability to relate to owners, and the patience and time to build a business and client base. I suppose where you are in the world makes a difference as far as the male/female thing but you have to start with a good foundation in order to be successful and make a living.
Also, not snapping at people who give good advice, especially when you ask, is helpful. : )


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## Luv2Train81 (Jun 17, 2014)

Yeah I agree with everyone bout men. there are a lot more training western than English. I mean after all this is where western riding comes from. Being not comfortable around boyfriends or fathers isn't something you should think too much into. It's not like you're there to steal their girlfriends or daughters. Just be yourself. Make it about the horse and keep it professional. 

See I started out cleaning stalls as probably most of us have at some point. Was asked to start out babies,then asked to give lessons, then asked to ride horses. I became a travelling trainer and went to my clients. And it was a niche in the market that hadn't been explored as much when I started. I had a lot of clients that wanted to keep their horse home because they've lost trust in prior trainers because things didn't work out. After a while I got the horses a lot of certified trainers didn't want. You simply just start somewhere and build yourself your reputation. After that it's word to mouth. And I agree document everything. Every client is an experience you can add to your resume. Do well with their animals and do well with the owners. Be friendly and professional and your success will show over time. There's always people giving you a chance. Especially when you go to them. it was important to me to involve them in the training of their horses because after you're done they are left with their horses and have to be able to handle them and understand them and the cues they have been taught. 
Without trying you will never know. 

However if you expect to make enough to right away make a living out of it... Well don't. Because clients come as fast as they go sometimes. Shot happens, situations change. keep your rates low. Better to charge little and have 20 clients than charge too much and have almost no customers. In this economy horse trainers count as a luxury expense and people will bite the bullet and pay their bills before hiring a trainer. So keep that in mind. I ended up doing really well for myself but I started small. I went all over the state. Was training horses in 7 counties as well as two other states. Then was hired to manage lesson barns, boarding barns, a rehabilitation center for abused mustangs and a breeding facility for paints, quarter horses and then andalusians, iberian aporthorses, aztecas and friesian sporthorses. And have my own breeding program for friesian sporthorses. If you hold on to your priorities and make the love for the horse and it's well-being your number one priority, you will do well. 

Another thing you can do to have a more steady income is start out as a caretaker or live in stall cleaner... Or working student at a large facility. Thought the student positions usually don't pay but are more for you to gain knowledge. Stall cleaners etc is a good option to have that steady income you can depend on. And it's a good way to get your foot in the door. 

You're still young that's true,but you gotta start somewhere. Just don't expect everything to fall in your lap right away. Because it takes commitment, versatility,ambition and lots and lots of hard work and good social skills to work your way up. But it's possible


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