# Chanti's Pregnancy Thread



## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Actually, your chances for something other than chestnut are a fantasy. Even though they may have black based horses in their pedigree, they did not recieve a black gene. Each only carries two copies of the recessive red which is why they are chestnut. 

Hope you get a flashy appy though 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## horsecrazy84 (Mar 20, 2011)

Yeah we are hoping for spots! I was guessing she'd have an April Fools baby but it probably won't be that soon. I'm just hoping she has it on a weekend so we have more time to spend with her and the baby. We have snake eggs incubating so we can't really go off and leave them any longer than necessary


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Where are you registering with since the stud is a grade?


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## horsecrazy84 (Mar 20, 2011)

ISHR..International Spotted Horse Registry. I just want to be able to keep track of her pedigree, what little I know.


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## horsecrazy84 (Mar 20, 2011)

Here's new pics taken yesterday. While she was eating her grain the foal was extremely active. I should have gotten a video of it. lol I checked her bag and she has clear liquid. I don't know why the flies love biting her bag so much. I clean it off just about every time I'm there and we are going to get fly spray too.





























She also got dewormed today.


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

why are her teats all bloody? sorry i just saw why.


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## darklotus88 (Mar 20, 2012)

thats what i am wondering


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## horsecrazy84 (Mar 20, 2011)

Flies. It's already been upper 80s here so flies, ticks, and mosquitoes are out bad already. We are going to pick up fly spray.

3-31 Update: Still just a clear, waterlike discharge from her teats. Foal is still very active. She must be sitting right under her hips because when she moves Chanti swishes her tail and sidesteps and moves trying to get comfortable. I have upped her grain just a little. She is on 24/7 pasture but it hasn't come in all the way yet and she is on a Mare and Foal grain.
Chanti has been sweating a lot with it being unseasonably warm and she's trying to shed her winter coat. Our weather is very crazy and we're supposed to get severe thunderstorms in a few days so I figure she'll wait until it's really stormy before she has it.

She is now about 373 days along so she really needs to hurry this process up lol.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Has she been with the stud the whole time? If so it is a possibility that she aborted and was rented later throwing off your dates...


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

is 373 days a typo?


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## HorseLovinLady (Jul 18, 2011)

I've been wondering about her and you, Good foaling vibes from me to Chanti and you!


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## trainerunlimited (Jan 26, 2012)

Something is wrong if she is supposed to be 373 days along. She looks nowhere near that and something could be severely wrong if she has gone more than 365days.


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## horsecrazy84 (Mar 20, 2011)

She was bred March 17-23 last year because it was the same day I took her to the vet. So she is over the 365 day mark. yes, she has been with Sundance the whole time but she never came back into heat and he only bred her twice that one day. She is a maiden mare and mares CAN deliver up to 390 days without problems. Maidens tend to go longer. We had a hard winter and that might have slowed her progress a little but she is getting bigger every day it seems, foal is active, and her bag is getting bigger. Still just the clear stuff coming out but I really do think she only has a week to go. Going out again today to spray her and get more pics and check her. I'll have to find that receipt from the vet to check the exact date but she did not abort and get rebred later.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

You don't know for sure she never aborted and was rebred at a later date unless you were watching her 24/7. Yes horses can go longer, but it is NOT normal. If a horse goes past the normal range there is usually a reason for it. Also the horses that are KNOWN to have super long gestation were not in with the stallion past initial breeding so their final breed dates are known. Yours are not.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

My mare was confirmed in foal with a scan last year, was running with the stud the whole time. She aborted and was re bred, resulting in teh longest foal watch ever, because I didn't realize it.

Her udder doesn't look any where close yet. Poor girl looks really sore as well, I hate flies.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Remember, this is the poster who didn't need a vet because "animals have babies all the time without help." Check her past threads
One I found amzing, here is pic she posted back in November asking how far along her horse was then, I think she is bigger back in November than now.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Yep WG. I kept from even mentioning no vet care as the op has had tantrums over that being brought up in the past....


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Mare looks bigger because she is carrying condition, she is going to need to be fed heavy to feed this foal, personally I would like to see more weight on her at this stage.

The OP is right a lot of mares foal out really easily and without any problem.

Some die

Personally I like my mares to much to take the risk of not having the vet at least on standby


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## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

To me in the first picture she just looks like she has a huge hay belly. I'd have the vet out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

A vet could not tell she was pregnant bred the same day the vet examined her, which is what you just said above. And after rereading your first posts about her being pregant at 4-5months which you wrote in November, I don't beleive themare has been checked since then. So, if I read correctly,she was never confirmed pregnant by a vet, just you guessing. I think you have a very fat horse that was fatter in November than she is now. 
Even if she is pregnant and at 373+ days, most caring horse owners would be checking to see what is going on, not waiting..
For the sake of the horse, get a vet out.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Also is the stud going to be kept with her post foaling?


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

wyominggrandma said:


> I think you have a very fat horse that was fatter in November than she is now.



Just interested do you see her as 'fat now'? I see angular hips, I can see rib shadows on her pics, not fat at all


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

I meant fat as in hay belly,not fat body. Her body condition is poor, especially when you look at the hindquarter view.


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

NdAppy said:


> Also is the stud going to be kept with her post foaling?


I kept foals in with the studs without any issues, they are herd animals, my studs love the foals and are protective of them, none of my studs have ever shown any aggression towards them. They play and eat together, My Icelandic stud has only "kicked out" one colt of his herd, and he doesn't bother the gelding in the herd either, maybe because they have been together since the stud was a yearling. My Paint stud is the same way, I moved one of his mare out of the field when she foaled and he got really depressed so I had to move them back together.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

cmarie said:


> I kept foals in with the studs without any issues, they are herd animals, my studs love the foals and are protective of them, none of my studs have ever shown any aggression towards them. They play and eat together, My Icelandic stud has only "kicked out" one colt of his herd, and he doesn't bother the gelding in the herd either, maybe because they have been together since the stud was a yearling. My Paint stud is the same way, I moved one of his mare out of the field when she foaled and he got really depressed so I had to move them back together.


I was more concerned with rebreeding a grade stud on the mare's foal heat and adding _another_ grade foal to the world... I think the mare isn't registered with a reputable registry either but not 100% on that...


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

When my maiden Haflinger shocked all of us by foaling early with no warning signs, Alto was fine, although very excited. I pulled them out pretty darn quick because I didn't want her rebred.


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

^^^ I understand what your saying.
WG, I agree that the horse in the current pictures is under ideal weight for a pregnant mare she has gone down hill since the pictures posted in November, but I have one mare that's older that does something similar when she's ready to foal, her ribcage really springs and she looses all her muscle tone in her back and rump, so she looks like a starving horse, it's past time to retire her.


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## horsecrazy84 (Mar 20, 2011)

When she went for the vet in March it wasn't about her being pregnant. I wanted her checked for something else because she had lost her balance and fallen over a few days before so I wanted bloodwork done,etc. She was in standing heat then and when she was put back in with Sundance is when he bred her. She never came back in heat after that so she did NOT abort the foal and get rebred. Like I said earlier it was a hard winter, hay was scarcer than before and not as high-quality so she did lose weight but is gaining it and I am going to keep her on grain. There are no plans or intentions of selling her foal so it doesn't matter if it's grade. It'll be trained for whatever we think it'll do good at.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

horsecrazy84 said:


>


Stud looks skinny too.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

I know why she went to vet in March, as I said, as far as I have read, you have never had this "pregnancy" verified by a vet. She was very fat in your November photos, now, she doesn't look pregnant to me, just a big belly that could be worms or lack of feed... 
I would like you to answer this one question: HAS she been seen by a vet to verify pregnancy, or are you just guessing. If she is 373 day and no signs of a bag,, I wonder if she is actually pregnant. If sheis 373 days,WHY have you not had a vet out to check her? It is NOT normal for a mare to carry that long without some signs of being pregnant< a bigger bag>, etc.
Just answer that one question, Has her pregnancy actually been verified at some point by a vet?


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

She was starting to get a bag in the picture with the bloody teats. I pasture breed and I rarely catch my stud in the act. Personally I think that even though she can back from the vet in full blown heat, I don't think she took on that pairing, and possibly took later, it appears that your horses had a rough winter, and be careful of all the spring grasses, hungry horses and rich spring grasses are a recipe founder.


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## palominolover (Apr 28, 2010)

I'm going to say the same thing...Your mare does not appear pregnant to me. I HIGHLY suggest you get a vet out, it just seems almost like you don't care .


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

I don't think it's a matter that the OP doesn't care about her horses, I think it's more of a financial issue, vets are expensive, money could be better used for feed, housing, or what ever, and like it or not prenatal care for a horse is not really necessary if you can give your own shots and have experience in broodmares.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Which she is lacking that needed experience though cmarie...


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

True, I would venture to say the OP is possibly a teen.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Lacking in experience and even if a vet costs money, there are times that you need to call one... I feel for this horse is she is pregnant,if she starts having issues,will the OP decide its perfectly normal to labor for hours or never go
into labor since "animals have been having babies forever" and not call a vet?
Looking at that photo in November, she looked big then.. yet, smaller now... so, how can a pregnant mare be big in November, then smaller now when she is supposadely 373plus days?
I am sorry, if most good owners had a mare at 373+days, I imagine they would call a vet out to see what is going on. Most BIG places keep checking on mares when they are overdue, they don't just let them go.
I see the OP has not answered my question yet.


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## horsecrazy84 (Mar 20, 2011)

I am not a teen and I have had horses since I was 8, wenmt to school for it. No, I never had a vet tell me the obvious, "Yup, she's in foal". I can FEEL and SEE the foal moving, her bag is getting bigger. I am not some idiot who has no experience with horses. Yes, money was the main reason she didn't see a vet to confirm pregnancy. My husband lost his job and it took him a while to find another but a house payment and bills must be made first,l plus I have my own doctor appointments. And yes, they are both thinner than what they normally ever are, but I explained all that. Most people around here have fescue in their hay and I was not about to bring any fescue in for her so it was very hard to find good hay. She is on a Mare & Foal grain, fed daily by me or my brother since I can't make it out every day, and she has access to grass. As soon as we can we're going to get some square bales if our usual supplier has any left and I'll probably add wheat germ oil to both their grain. I know 11 months is the norm and I also know she was not rebred after March. Sundance never showed any other interest in her at all and plus somebody would have seen them acting different. I have more pics I took today. Foal was still until we hosed Chanti down, then she got active lol. Her vulva was very relaxed also. I just made this thread so I can post updates and pics of the process and of the foal when she comes. I don't really care what everybody's opinion is, I KNOW she's pregnant since I'm the one who's here and seeing and feeling the foal move and all the other changes. I don't really want any criticism, I know everything that has been pointed out and anything you say won't change my plan or what I think. We are keeping the foal and don't intend to rebreed her since that would be really hard on her but also don't have a way to seperate them unless she stays in a tiny stall in the barn and we sell some snake babies to get the vet fee covered to have him gelded. If she does get pregnant again we will most likely keep that foal too or decide to keep the better foal but just because it's a grade foal doesn't mean it's worthless. Sundance has the best personality and is the easiest horse to teach and Chanti has her great qualities too. That's all we want in a foal


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

You might want to try corn oil I believe it is less expensive and is a safe way to put on weight quickly. And by the way I wish you and your horse nothing but luck.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Actually, a grade foal IS worthless. It is only worth something once it has some training. That is why a grade foal gets sold at a price per pound, while a registered foal gets sold at a price suitable to its bloodlines.

A grade foal has only itself going for it. A registered foal has the years of breeding put into the previous generations. It may not be the better horse of the two - but the future buyer knows a hell of a lot more about the registered foal than the grade. I would NEVER buy a foal of unknown bloodlines. A grown horse, sure. You can see what they do, and what they have done. Their parent's parent's parents don't matter.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

I'm sorry but it is absolutely asinine to assume that because you or someone else hasn't sen him mount her that she wasn't re-bred at a later date. The only way to know for sure when a horse was for sure bred is to keep the mare and stallion apart and control when breeding takes place. You can't sit there and type that you know for a fact she is 373 days in foal. You never had her confirmed in foal or checked for twins, nor did you watch them 24/7/365. 


I stand behind what I have said in this thread. If you personally cannot see the differences in the pictures of the mare, you need to go back and reevaluate things. 

You've never had either horses for genetic defects such as HYPP before breeding either did you?

Having two horses was functioning reproduction organs and "sweet dispositions" is no reason to add even more grade horses to an already saturated market. Doesn't matter that you claim you will keep them forever. Crap happens and that doesn't always come true (as was just evidence by your husband's lack of work for awhile). You don't know the future. No one does. 

Do yourself, and the world a favor. Get the vet out to check Chanti and geld Sundance at the same time. He never was stud material.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

**Shakes head sadly**

Look horsecrazy, I feel for you in a way, a lot of people were chasing me to get Ace checked by the vet last year when she went over. The difference was that I had had her vet checked, I had spoken to the vet and he wasn't worried about her. He told me what to look for and we agreed that she was fine.

In the end as I said she foaled out to a much later and unobserved breeding. My stud does not breed the mares he is running with very often, and I am not naive enough to believe that I see him every time he does serve a mare. In fact I have 2 very pregnant mares here and I never saw him cover either last year.

Ace certainly looked pregnant










she had a good udder










And she was in good condition.

Your mare has had NO vet care

She is showing NO SIGNS of foaling 

She IS in poor condition

You are not doing the best for this girl, I worry for her


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Ace sure had everyone on pins and needles forever with that thread GH!


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

NdAppy said:


> Ace sure had everyone on pins and needles forever with that thread GH!



She did indeed, but it was so worth the wait:wink:


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## arrowsaway (Aug 31, 2011)

horsecrazy84 said:


> When she went for the vet in March it wasn't about her being pregnant. I wanted her checked for something else because she had lost her balance and fallen over a few days before so I wanted bloodwork done,etc..


so you bred a mare with a possible neurological condition? ><

good gods.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

So, you KNOW for a fact she was not bred again..Did you sleep with your mare? You yourself said you don't see her every day.Since you could not have possibly watched her day and night, you don't know 100%...But, you seem to know everything, so guess nothing anyone says means anything anyway.
If you have animals,it is your duty to make sure they are taken care of. This mare has probably had no vet care,no vaccinations, no anything.Has her teeth been floated lately? Wormed? She is in poor shape and you expect her to drop a healthy foal one of these months? 

so very sorry for both this mare, your stallion and any foal coming from this mare if there is one.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Hey, OP,why don't you go over to Ronner's Baby Watch and look at the recent photos of that mare whom is ready to foal ,due on April 23... You can see her bag from the photos , how full it is. This mare looks pregnant and ready to foal, unlike yours...


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Your mare looked preggo in that older November pic,but the new pics she doesn't look preggo nor does her bag look like a pregnant udder.:? Don't think you'll be seeing a baby anytime soon....:-(


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Seriously.....SERIOUSLY?! She never had a vet check to confirm the pregnancy to begin with, she's been out with a stud this entire time, both of them are in very poor condition, and yet you still stomp around like an entitled child spouting you own naive opinions as unquestionable facts?

I feel very sorry for your horses, I really do. I started freaking out when my 18 year old retiree started showing _one_ rib this winter and it really bothers me that you seem completely unconcerned that both your horses (one of whom _could_ be pregnant) are sporting bony hips/shoulders, full visible rib counts, prominent spines, and very large hay/worm bellies (note that I _didn't_ say pregnant belly:?). I didn't even mention the mare's poor udder. If the flies are out so badly to have already chewed her udder up so horribly, why did you not _already_ have fly spray?? If the mare had been bred last year and was 4-5 months along in November like you guessed, then she would be showing indisputable signs of an impending foal at this point.

In spite of what you claim as gospel, that mare is _not_ at 373.

For your mare's sake, I truly hope she aborted the foal and what you are feeling is nothing more than gut movements. She's in no condition to raise a healthy foal and maintain her own health at this point.


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## horsecrazy84 (Mar 20, 2011)

Here's a pic from today.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Hmmm, had a well fed older gelding that came out of winter looking like that........


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

^^Oh, I know, I have a 3 year old gelding with a belly similar to that, though he doesn't have the ribs, hips, and spine sticking out like that poor mare.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

horsecrazy84 said:


> Yes, money was the main reason she didn't see a vet to confirm pregnancy. My husband lost his job and it took him a while to find another but a house payment and bills must be made first,l plus I have my own doctor appointments.


I understand that things happen and horses are expensive, but is your life situation not a reason to stop breeding and spend the money on gelding? 



horsecrazy84 said:


> As soon as we can we're going to get some square bales if our usual supplier has any left and I'll probably add wheat germ oil to both their grain.


Winter is over, why have you not already been doing this? Your horses cannot wait until 'as soon as we can'. 
Same applies to fly spray/sheets/predator flies. 




horsecrazy84 said:


> If she does get pregnant again we will most likely keep that foal too or decide to keep the better foal but just because it's a grade foal doesn't mean it's worthless.


So you already can't afford to feed the two you have, have a 'possible' foal on the way and don't seem to care too much if you have another any time soon. 


So much of what you are saying is horribly alarming. And you don't seem terribly concerned when this is pointed out to you. 

I bet the money you spend on internet service would buy the vets services that your horses need.


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## horsecrazy84 (Mar 20, 2011)

This is HorseCrazys husband hijacking her thread for a minute I have been around horses since i was three years old im 30 this year she has been around horses since she was 8 and she is 28 this year so combined we have 40 years around horses I know they are not at ideal weight 98% of all hay from this area was sent on 18 wheelers to texas due to their drought so we got whatever bermuda we could find she is on mare and foal grain now and personally I have little use for people who think they have the right or the nerve to show no respect or common decency ie wyominggrandma and indyappy or whoever the heck it is BUT when we ask for your opinion feel free to give it we have a vet we can call at anytime we NEED her we are keeping an eye on her now wyoming and everyone else on here tell me when you have seen a mare become rebred or even bred without coming into heat? NEVER a mare has to be in heat to be bred we are out there at least every 2 days so keep all opinions to yourself unless you have somthing positive to say!!!!!!!!! And lastly this is the FIRST and The last time you will hear from me so please keep your opinions to yourself my wife and I know what we are doing as it seems some of you fart and think its a thought please refrain from being belittleing to my wife I take it very very very very seriously feel free to be complimentary polite and respectful if you cant do that please read someone elses thread. Have a nice day!!!!


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## trainerunlimited (Jan 26, 2012)

I have to say they are commenting on things that may hurt Horsecrazy's feelings, but they are very true facts. The stud you posted a pic of has worse conformation than your mare and should have never been allowed to breed in the first place. Both of your horses have not even had the minimum amount of feed to maintain weight, not to mention thrive. A foal coming out of this situation is a nightmare waiting to happen.

There is a chance it will be born weak from not getting the nutrition it needs, your mare is more apt to have complications going into labor because she is not healthy, and if you can't feed the two horses you have, how are you going to feed another? I would consider giving the poor quality stud away to a rescue or geld him, you do not need any more foals out of this pair of horses. 

Also, if you just happen to make it out every 2 days or so, you CAN miss a breeding very easily, regardless of what you think. That mare looks like it was bred and in a lot better shape last november, now she looks like she has aborted and rebred, or doesn't have anything in her stomach except a tiny foal from lack of proper nutrition, or has a huge wormy belly from not getting enough to eat. If the truth offends you, don't post on a public forum. Especially with poor horses.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

I'm sorry Horsecrazies Husband, but it simply doesn't work like that, by posting pics and stories on the internet you are inviting people to share your story, and you cannot compel what sort of responses you are going to get.

What we are concerned about is the state of the mare as shown by the pics, and it clearly shows to me that 40 years of experience doesn't prove anything.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Ugh, I hate it when people use lame excuses and blame their _own_ lack of caring on everything else. Take some responsibility for your _own_ choices and your _own_ actions instead of whining and sniveling when people point out things that you should _already_ know, considering your "experience":?.

I live in Texas, I know _exactly_ what the hay prices are like. That's not a legitimate excuse to not bother to get even mediocre vet care for either horse (to include preg check and gelding). If you cannot afford to have the normal vet care and feed that the horse needs _when they need it_, then you simply shouldn't have horses.

Money's tight for me too, but you don't see me letting my horses get skinny, or going without a vet when they need it, or leaving my ungelded colt in with my mare and saying...for over a year I might add...that I _plan_ to get him gelded but I just don't have the money right now. They all have hay, they get vet care, my colt was gelded and got the surgery he needed.

Why wasn't that stud gelded the instant that you brought him home? If you didn't have the money to geld him when you took him in, then why did you bring him home in the first place knowing that you had a mare that would end up bred due to the lack of basic knowledge and proper fencing to house a stud?

Everything about this story tells me that you really aren't terribly concerned with the care of your horses. You can't afford vet care or feed for the 2 you have, but it seems you are trying awfully hard to end up with a 3rd....and a 4th....and a 5th.

It's simple, be a _little bit_ responsible. Have the mare preg checked, if she's still early enough, have the foal aborted, get that stud gelded, spend a few hundred now to prevent a cost in the thousands for an unwanted and unmarketable foal that will hit the ground in an unprepared household.

For goodness sake, open your eyes. You can't feed 2 horses, yet you are doing nothing to prevent a 3rd. I'd bet dollars to donuts you're still spouting "We _plan_ to get him gelded" _another_ year from now. If you can't give the horses the care they need and deserve, then find someone who can.

What are you going to do if the mare does have complications during the birth? Let her and the foal die and blame it on "it happens in the wild all the time"?

Seriously, wake up :evil:.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Just because you didn't see something, doesn't mean it didn't happen. My mom checks her mares daily and watches them while she is in the house (handy to be a homemaker with your horses just outside your front door) and the only reason she knew that one of her mares had miscarried is because she saw something red hanging from her butt. The mare had not yet passed the placenta at the time my mom was feeding her horses in the morning. If she had passed the placenta, my mom would never have known that there was a miscarriage while she was sleeping at night.

Another thing, you can have false pregnancies, a miscarriage due to poor feed, the mare isn't cycling because her body is too stressed, and countless other possibilities. If she is over 370 days like you claim, you already have a major reason to call the vet. If you don't believe me, I challenge you to call your vet up and ask over the phone if they would have any concerns for an underweight mare to go past 370 days gestation. 

I would also suggest reading this thread with a mare having a false pregnancy after being bred. She had a small bag and a long relaxed vulva too. http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeding/false-pregnancy-late-term-pregnancy-vet-115859/

Please at least talk to a vet on the phone...


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Im sorry, but this is ridiclious. You dont even have the money to properly feed 2 horses. So add another, a foal. But wait, you dont have any way to seperate the stud from the mare. So she WILL be REBRED! Its guaranteed! You say youve taken horse classes, well all that falls under Horse Care 101. If you cant afford them, get rid of them! You cant even afford to cut your stallion, you shouldnt own one. You will have baby after baby until the problem is solved. 

Your horses are skinny. Your mare, if she foals, will not be able to keep up on the milk production because shell be so emaciated because there isnt enough food to support herself, let alone the foal! 

And its completely, 100%, absolutely possible that the mare aborted even just 1 or 2 months into the pregnancy and was rebred. You arent out there 24/7, you dont know if he bred her again. There is no way to tell. 

For the sake of the horses, i do hope something gets done. Times are hard, but we have to learn to be responsible.


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## doubleopi (Dec 27, 2011)

I don't know where, exactly, you are at, but I know a lot of horse rescue will help with gelding costs...might be something to look into. He will be healthier as he won't be expending calories on those...activities. No more babies to have to feed...Plus he will be worth more as a gelding as more people want geldings than stallions. Just a thought.
Stallion To Gelding Support
One Horse At A Time, Inc.
Unwanted Horse Coalition
NATIONAL EQUINE RESOURCE NETWORK


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

horsecrazy84 said:


> I know they are not at ideal weight 98% of all hay from this area was sent on 18 wheelers to texas due to their drought so we got whatever bermuda we could find she is on mare and foal grain now


The purpose of an internet message board is for people to discuss things, so it doesn't really work if you just ask for the nice opinions, as long as no one is violating the rules of this board. 

I checked, based on your wife's location description and there appears to be quite a few TSC stores in your area. For future hay shortages, it would be an idea to go to TSC and get hay pellets. 
Why was the mare allowed to drop so much weight before she was given the mare and foal feed? 
Is the stud being fed something 'now' too?


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## Casey02 (Sep 20, 2011)

I dont know how I got through that whole thread.... I cant believe what i have read. So heres what i got two horses very under weight, who should be SEPERATED, one a stallion who by no means should be one, and a very poor looking mare who is in foal. There is no reason that she should be in foal, just because you want the color of daddy and mommys personalities........

You also said that if she has this foal and is rebred that you would keep that foal too. When you cant afford the two you have!! Let alone buy them the feed they NEED! Sorry but if you cant afford to feed and get them vet checked you better seriously start thinking about getting rid of them. Money is tight for everyone now, thats not an excuse. The people that care put there money towards their horses. I also got that you were going to keep having babies, sell them so you could pay to get him gelded..You have got to be kidding me.

The reason people are so harsh to you is because you do NOT see what is wrong here, quit trying to make a buck off two horses. Get your stallion fixed and seperate the two horses. This makes me sick we already have thousands of horses that need homes because they thought they could make a buck off of their horses too.


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## MelissaAnn (Aug 26, 2011)

Here we go....


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Add soaked beet pulp to their diet to help put some weight on them. If their teeth are bad (I don't know if you've had them done lately), they're not getting nutrients from grain or hay, and beet pulp will be easier to eat. I have my two TBs and my senior on beet pulp (3qts 3x/day) along with Nutrena SafeChoice.


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## DraftXDressage (Aug 29, 2011)

This thread makes both my brain and my heart hurt.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

to the OP's husband, I have been involved with horses and dogs for over 50 years, and have worked for vets for over 35, so sorry, but I do have plenty of experience, much more than you or your wife. You don't like some of the answers because they don't fit with what you want to hear.
as far as the breeding, mares can and do have silent heats and can come into heat, be bred and go out of heat in a day or two with nobody seeing them. Your wife stated she doesn't even see the mare everyday.. The mare was much more pregnant looking in the November photos and she was also healthy looking, she does not look pregnant now nor is she in good health. Just because hay was not plentiful, there is hay cubes available in the stores. I imagine low funds did not stop you or wife from eating all winter.
You say you have a vet available, but both you and your wife REFUSE to have the vet come out and actually check this mare. Why?? 
If she is 373 PLUS days now, with NO bag development, just a bloody skinny bag from flies, something is wrong. 
I think both your wife and you are afraid to have a vet come out because it might show the mare is open and because both of you have been pretty much calling everyone who has given an opinion stupid, you would have to admit you are both wrong.
Why not prove all us opinion givers stupid and have positive proof this mare is pregnant? Why are you both so against having a vet out? If one of my mares was that far overdue, I would be worried for her health and the foal, not trying to save money by not having a vet out.
I will be the first to admit I was wrong if the mare does foal, but imagine this thread will just disappear with nothing more said before too long


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## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

Bluh. I _really_ didn't want to get involved on this thread, but I'll put in my 2 cents and leave it at that.

Last year we had NO hay in Texas to be found, and it was crazy expensive. But we have two pregnant mares. So what do we do? First of all, we sold all of our nice geldings. Secondly, I couldn't get my wisdom teeth taken out, nor could I go get a new glasses prescription. Third, we bought hay pellets and alfalfa, and put down grass seed in the pasture. Fourth, we scrimped and saved to get our mares the quality vet care that they needed.

Personally, I'm not surprised by any of this. They are her horses, and she can do what she wants, whether or not we like it. She is not running a breeding program to contribute to world-class, pedigreed horses. She is breeding for personal gain, and it sounds to me that she breeds everything she owns - horses, dogs, snakes, etc. It's not about quality, it's about breeding for the sake of breeding an animal. 

You simply cannot argue or convince people who already have a set pattern established in their heads. Breeding is exciting, it gets her all the attention she lacks in her personal life, and it makes one look like an established horse person simply because they can "train a baby/rescue/etc". She is not a trainer, she is not a breeder, she is an "experience horse owner" (the title of which she gave herself), so there is no need to give her any more of the attention and validation she craves....

Adieu.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

oh vair oh said:


> Secondly, I couldn't get my wisdom teeth taken out, nor could I go get a new glasses prescription


:lol::lol: OK I know I shouldn't be laughing, but seeing as I'm reading this peering through very scratched glasses, that I know are now the wrong prescription for me, and hoping that my teeth don't start hurting again, I feel your pain, literally.

But we do what we have to do so the critters are fed right?


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

> But we do what we have to do so the critters are fed right?


SOME of us do...


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## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

CLaPorte432 said:


> SOME of us do...


The ones who care about their animals do...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Casey02 (Sep 20, 2011)

I dont know how they can sit down and eat knowing their three horses are starving


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## Rachel1786 (Nov 14, 2010)

Like has already been said, she looked more pregnant in November then now. 

OP if you were pregnant would you not go to the Dr and get checked and have regular check ups? Doesn't your mare deserve the same?


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## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

Apparently not, Rachel. 

I don't know WHY they even opened this back up. 
Oy vey
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Now why would a pregnant lady need to go to the doctor.After all, woman have been having kids for years and have babies everyday. (okay, I admit I am being sarcastic,but what the heck)


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

wyominggrandma said:


> Now why would a pregnant lady need to go to the doctor.After all, woman have been having kids for years and have babies everyday. (okay, I admit I am being sarcastic,but what the heck)



I am 36 and married. My daddy would like to believe I am still a virgin. 

I guess that as he has no idea of my monthly cycle and has never seen me having sex ...... well I suppose.... I must be a virgin then. :lol:


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## reining girl (Jan 30, 2009)

you shouldnt be allowed to own anything with working reproductive organs. this is just terrible. if you want a foal so bad go buy one instead of adding more poorly conformed, unwanted horses to this world that are going to end up on someones plate in france. Its a stud you freaking RESCUED!!!


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Yes,but sounds as if they own an animal that can produce they will breed it. Maybe it makes these folks feel like they are breeders in their minds. Plus provides them with money to keep making more baby animals, even though they do not feed them well.
How sad for any of the animals they own.


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## New_image (Oct 27, 2007)

> I wanted her checked for something else because she had lost her balance and fallen over a few days before so I wanted bloodwork done,etc. She was in standing heat then and when she was put back in with Sundance is when he bred her.


 
:think:


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

> Its a stud you freaking RESCUED!!!


Rescued? LoL. I don't call what they are doing as "rescued"...


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## reining girl (Jan 30, 2009)

oh but they did, they "rescued" him. So why not breed a rescued horse, you dont know what breed they are, if they have any disease they could pass along to the baby, have horrid confo, but hey he still has his balls and they just happen to have a mare so it must be meant to be.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

This thread is going nowhere,think what needed saying has been said:wink:,the OP can do with it what she may:?.Seriously don't think we'll hear much more from her,or that things have changed....:-(


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## sapphiresrider (Dec 19, 2011)

She probably is having a foal but at the same time is underweight, so it doesn't show. :S


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## horsecrazy84 (Mar 20, 2011)

Here's pics taken today. April 4.








































Appetite still great, still just the clear liquid. She is so itchy and scratching bald spots on herself but at least the weather will be cooler in the next week but we're supposed to get thunderstorms in a couple days.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

*shakes head* She is so severely lacking in weight...


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

But good to see her boobs looking more comfortable, still nowhere near looking like foaling, my girl who is at least 3 weeks away has a better udder than that


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

She doesn't look close to me at all.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I still think she aborted the foal and was re-bred. No way is this mare close to dropping. On top of extra feed, she really needs to have been ridden consistently before and during the early months of her pregnancy to keep her fit to carry and deliver a foal.


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## BaileyJo (Aug 23, 2011)

I just don't get it... just don't get it.... just don't get it....

Why don't you have the vet out to check her? Why don't you get that stud gelded? If you don't have the money to do that, you have no business taking on another horse that needs a farrier, feed, routine vet care. 

Caring about your horse is much more than just saying it's cute, putting them in a pen, saying you own a horse and _saying_ you love them. I don't think you are getting that. Honestly, I think you are putting that into your care. There is a difference in care and responsible horse ownership. 

BTW, your mare is very thin - too thin to be giving birth in a healthy manner. You can see her backbone in the last picture. Of course her appetite is big. She's trying to make up her weight, produce a baby and produce milk. It's called starving, not a healthy appetite.


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## trainerunlimited (Jan 26, 2012)

I can see her backbone in both body shots. She needs to be fed free choice hay and quality grain twice a day with supplements to help with both weight gain and a bred mare supplement before a tragedy takes place.

I already feel bad for the foal because if she is bred, the foal hasn't had a chance to get the proper vitamins and minerals in its diet that it needs before birth for healthy bone/muscle growth. 

With the new pics, I do believe that she is more likely to be bred, but is not 370+ days along. She most likely got bred at a later date and you didn't notice, regardless of what you think.

You are going to have to learn to think with a more open mind and take others' opinions who may be and probably are more experienced than you into consideration, or you will have a rough time all around being so close-minded. 

Quit making excuses and take the actions needed to get your poor horses in better shape, or face the consequences when things go wrong later on with them. 

That mare could easily die in the shape she is in trying to give birth, simply because she may not have the energy required to complete the deed. BAM, dead mare, probably dead foal. <--- Extreme circumstances, but you are definitely heading in that direction. If she is bred, the heavier she is in foal, the more energy is required to sustain it, the weaker/poorer she will become....unless you actually do something about it now.


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## kayleeloveslaneandlana (Apr 10, 2011)

......

This mare is no where close to foaling. She needs much more food in her diet, free choice of hay, everything. I would also geld the stallion to make sure this doesn't happen again. I won't go too much into in because I know the OP probably isn't reading the comments anymore, I just can't imagine having a mare be overdue and not even look that pregnant.


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## Casey02 (Sep 20, 2011)

Pictures April 4th..... and still as skinny as ever


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## Casey02 (Sep 20, 2011)

> Of course her appetite is big. She's trying to make up her weight, produce a baby and produce milk. It's called starving, not a healthy appetite.


 
I couldnt have said it better


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

My job title: Zoo Keeper! Not! It's really rat breeder, bunny feeder, snake wrangler, dog groomer and general grounds upkeep aka housekeeping! Oh, and egg sitter

That is at the bottem of her pages.Guess when you breed everything you can, its okay to "rescue"horses and breed them.. sad sad sad..

It is sad, neither her husband nor her will admit why they won't have a vet out. I don't believe it is a money thing, I believe they don't want to have someone tell them the poor poor condition their animals are in. Even if this mare is pregnant, although she is not at 373+ days like the OP says, the foal will likely be sickly and will be surprised if mom and baby make it. I had said I would apologize if the mare is pregnant, but have changed my mind. I won't apologize for saying what I have said, I have NEVER seen such blantent disreguard for an animals health or well being that this mare and her skinny stallion. She will never geld that stallion either, heck, you gotta own a stud to be cool.Bet their dogs are not neutered either.Never mind, I remember she bred Great Dane/Pyranees puppies and she was so very proud of producing a litter of mutts.


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

This mare appears to me close to foaling, she seems under weight, I don't remember seeing how old this mare is. I have a mare that gets the same starved dog look when she is about to foal, but she's 20+ yrs old and has been a broodmare for many years, and hasn't been worked or ridden in years. It doesn't matter how fat her tummy is she has no top line any more and a "sprung ribcage".

With that said it's time to try and help this OP get her mare in better shape.

An inexpensive safe way to put weight on your mare is to start giving her about a 1/2 cup of corn oil with her feed, you can put it right on her hay if that's all you are feeding her, or with grain if you are giving her that. 

The mare is under weight and needs help if she is going to have a healthy foal and not starve herself to death nursing the foal.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

The mare is about six or seven cmarie. The OP states that she (for all intents and purposes) basically didn't give hay all winter...


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

I feel for the horses, and the OP lack of understanding, all's anyone can do is give her suggestions the rest it up to her.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

This is going to be an unpopular post, I'm afraid, but what do ya'll think you are accomplishing by attacking this poster?

The vast majority of all horse owners in the world don't feed the best of feed, a multitude of supplements, house in posh stables, train with a trainer, haul to horse shows, have routine vet care, individual feeding programs, registered horses, etc.

Ya'll are NOT the average horse owners .. seriously. People run stallions (many sub-par) with mares that have unattended foalings and once a year wormings and trimmings... really. Many horses lose condition as they overwinter on less than adequate pastures .. every year. 

I don't know of a single agency that would confiscate this poster's horses for "starving". They are underweight, the owner knows this. Whether or not the mare was bred when is irrelevant.. she'll foal, if she's going to foal, when she's going to foal. The owner believes what she believes about this.

Tons of people, many on this board, have unregistered, sub-par (according to whomever) horses. They are valuable to their owners. Some priceless. 

To Chanti's owner.

Please don't quit posting. I, for one, am interested in when this mare foals and watching her condition improve as the spring is, hopefully, more kind to you (and her) than the winter has been.

Please know that there are many very knowledgeable horse people on this board. Don't throw away every suggestion because none of us are EVER to knowledgeable to learn. Read and consider every post, choose your own plan. Always strive to learn more. Ignore the rude posts, consider the others.

I do agree with the corn oil suggestion, and look forward to seeing Chanti's progess.

I'm available for you if you want to chat. Just PM me.

~tg


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

I fed my horses, even the ones there are 26+ plenty of hay during the winter in 
-30 degrees for years and years. No supplements, no stables, no trainers, BUT, they always had hay in front of them at all times during the winter. They get wormed, they get their shots, they get VET care when needed, I don't haul to shows,and I have registered and unregistered horses. BUT, the average horse owners still cares enough to feed their horses and there are plenty of AVERAGE horse owners on this forum, but rich or average, sub par horses or expensive horses, we all CARE enough about our horses to make sure they have enough food to not starve....
If you have no pasture during the winter, but feet of snow for 8+ months like I do then the average owner would at least make sure they had enough FOOD to feed the horses during the winter. 
IF I could not afford to feed them, as the OP posted and let them go all winter pretty much with no food,then I would not have kept aquiring more animals before winter. I would not have bred a litter of mixed breed puppies, nor rats, or bunnies.
I would have got rid of some animals so the supposedly pregnant mare would have enough food to support her and the foal.


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

No, Texasgal your post is very true, I do apologize to the OP for being harsh, I too am interested and excited to see this foal.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Wygrandma:

My point is, no amount of attacking her is going to change any of that .. what is done is done .. and it only makes us look like bullies.

We can only make suggestions. The rest is up to her.

(And, FWIW, I don't think you are an AVERAGE horse owner. You are above average from where I stand..)


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

TG - those may be what you consider "average" owners, but that sure isn't what the rest of us consider acceptable or responsible... 

I am 110% in agreement with what WG had to say.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

NdAppy said:


> TG - those may be what you consider "average" owners, but that sure *isn't what the rest of us consider acceptable or responsible... *
> 
> I am 110% in agreement with what WG had to say.


But it's reality. Most of "us" are in a horse fanatic bubble. It is NOT how the majority of horses live, or majority of horse owners are. Right or wrong, it's reality.

Running them out of our "perfect bubble" doesn't make it any less real, only less visible to "perfect us" ..

Chanti is real, she's probably in foal, her owner is reaching out and excited to share .. we can suggest and share, or we can run her off. I choose to be helpful and want to share in this experience with her owner.

Just my lil' ol' opinion ....

~tg


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

That is your opinion. Obviously a majority of the people who have posted on this thread obviously feel that she is not a responsible owner. Biggest thing proving that... She did not provide enough feed to get her horses through the winter at an _acceptable_ (read not emaciated) weight... and that is regardless of the fact she has allowed to grade animals with unknown genetic histories (HYPP, HERDA, etc) to reproduce. So no, IMO she does not deserved patting on the head and telling her it's alright. She is an adult, she needs to be treated like one and not coddled like a two year old. 

Like I said... What you describe as an "average" horse owner is an irresponsible one. There is no denying that nor trying to defend it. Rationalizing someone's irresponsibility does nothing for them, their animals or you.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Reality is facing up to the truth, and how can you help someone who 

a) Believes sex doesn't happen unless you actually see it

b) That it is OK to let a mare get into that shape before foaling, and not seem in the least worried about it.

c) Doesn't see the need to bother the vet about a mare who if she is at 370 days + is needing to be looked at.


Oh, and I don't own a stall, my horses live out 24/7 365 days a year, I do have a run in and a barn, and have actually kept a horse in for the odd day here and there if needed.

They live out there in weather that can get down to -40 degrees, no blankets, no fancy food, just a vitamin and mineral supplement, oats and soaked beet for some of them. Everyone has hay in front of them 24/7, it may not be the best quality but there is plenty of it. I consider myself average, I do the best I can for my horses, and sometimes I have to scrimp, even on their care, but food isn't the place to do it, especially when a mare is pregnant


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

NdAppy said:


> That is your opinion. Obviously a majority of the people who have posted on this thread obviously feel that she is not a responsible owner. Biggest thing proving that... She did not provide enough feed to get her horses through the winter at an _acceptable_ (read not emaciated) weight... and that is regardless of the fact she has allowed to grade animals with unknown genetic histories (HYPP, HERDA, etc) to reproduce. So no, IMO she does not deserved patting on the head and telling her it's alright. She is an adult, she needs to be treated like one and not coddled like a two year old.
> 
> Like I said...* What you describe as an "average" horse owner is an irresponsible one. *There is no denying that nor trying to defend it. Rationalizing someone's irresponsibility does nothing for them, their animals or you.


I'm not disagreeing with you. Most horses do not live like ours. But they LIVE .. everywhere. The fact remains .. what has happened has happened. Beating someone up for what can't be undone is useless. We can chose to be helpful or be hurtful. 

Just like horses are varied and different in their breeding and training .. so are people that own them. Think about it.

Chanti is worth something, and I don't want to see her owner run off because she's "not like us" .. 

That's all.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

I understand what you are trying to say, texasgal, but this OP is an adult and can't seem to fathom why we are all saying her mare has no business being pregnant. She has had no health care, and does not even know what genetic issues either of her horses has,she just bred them. ( She has bred a litter of mix breed dogs and was so proud of that fact, in the days where pounds are full, nobody wants mix breed dogs, heck its hard enough to sell pure bred dogs, which is why I gave up breeding. I bred dogs that were sold to Japan as show dogs for $10,000, sold puppies for over $2000 each at 8 weeks old and had a waiting list of over a year. My dogs were health tested. I bet the OP did not do hips or elbows,both major health faults with Danes and Pyrenees..)
I am an average horse owner.I have lots of years in horses, lots of vet knowledge and general experience,but there is nothing about me that makes me above average. I love my horses, make sure they get proper vet care,and plenty of food, especially during winter. They have pastures for summer. I barter for pasture, I work hard for hay.My horses always come out of winter fatter than they went in after a fall of hard riding and hunting season. I have a nice trailer to haul them in. I do not use a trainer, nor have a barn, nor show my horses. I am an average horse owner, however my horses do not suffer from lack of food or care.
A mare goes through big changes during 11months of carrying a foal and having a foal.They need shots at certain times.They need to be in excellent health to even think about carrying a foal. 
Sure, there are sub par stallions running with sub par mares and having foals without help ..That does not make an excuse for having horses that you can't afford to feed during the winter.You can always get an extra job at McDonalds to buy hay for the horses that the OP loves, but instead, she just feeds them less. She is a sub par owner, period.She doesn't care about the horses, she just wants a cute baby to "raise and train"... And keep forever. so if the mare foals a live foal,how will they feed another horse for next winter?
Same as there are girls carrying babies everyday, having them in the bathroom and then dumping them..Carrying babies that are born with drug additions,or any number of things wrong. Just because it happens doesn't mean it should,nor should everyone have kids.
Being an adult means to open your eyes and see what everyone else is seeing.Realize that the people whom the OP asked advice for is giving it, they just don't want to see it. Neither the OP or the husband will say why they won't have a vet out to check this 373+ day pregnant mare with no bag... Just that the mare doesn't need one. The AVERAGE owner will provide vet care with a pregnant horse, dog or whatever,not just "wait and see". 
I love to read on the OP's posts something to the effect of " can't understand why some people think their horses and dogs are the only good ones". Maybe its because, OP, that we care about our animals, don't breed just because we can and think about making sure our animals are fed and healthy.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

> Chanti is real, she's probably in foal, her owner is reaching out and excited to share .


I'm sorry but I wouldn't be excited...I'd be downright embarrassed if my horse looked like that! Ontop of that, if we all get excited for her, then she'll continue to believe it's okay to act like this. 

It's NOT okay to treat animals like that! It's NOT okay to not feed horses that are in need! It's NOT okay to be excited about this horrible situation!

It's a harsh world but maybe this "wake-up call" will knock some sense into her about the mistreatment of her "beloved" animals.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

I'm sorry, TG, but the fact you think that we should sit by and not care simply because it's the "reality" that horses are mistreated every day? What kind of logic is that? That's the same as saying that people starve every day, so we should just not feed our kids. It's a crap way to justify neglect. Not "normal". Not "reality". Neglect.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Exactly Chiilaa. That is why I said that rationalizing it does nobody any good.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

It is simply beyond me how anyone can sit here and, with a straight face, defend one bit of what has been put forth by the OP in regards to this horse's condition, her abilities and judgement as an owner and the treatment to which she is subjecting her animals.


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

OP, I know it isn't fun to hear things you may not want to hear. Please take the advice given here and seek vet care for your mare and please have the stallion cut to prevent future pregnancies. If she is truly at 370 days plus, she REALLY does need to be seen by a vet. From the way she looks, I do believe she is in foal but slipped the foal at some point and was re-bred. There are so many things that can go wrong with a healthy mare that's on schedule when foaling but with this mare's condition and possibly being very overdue the dangers are exponentially increased. 

The care of broodmares and impending foals is not a cheap venture nor is it easy and stress free. When we make the conscious decision to breed animals we are accepting responsibility for the sometimes intense care and expense that it entails.


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## horsecrazy84 (Mar 20, 2011)

All I am going to say is...we DO care. I do not like the fact that they are underweight and except for a few weeks out of the winter they did have hay. I have already explained why so won't go into that again. They are regularly dewormed and get vet care as needed. If something does happen and she needs a vet when she foals I have the emergency number to the vet I normally use.
Yes, we have gone without dental visits for ourselves, I know all about giving up something I need in order to pay bills. I have needed to see a dentist for the past year and I deal with severe pain almost every day. We just can't afford it when it's either go get my teeth fixed or keep a roof over our head. 
Yes, we breed rats to feed our snakes. We breed snakes because that's a good income. Our first ever clutch of Ball Pythons are due the end of May and will sell from $75 up to $350 each and we have 6 good eggs. I will be breeding Mini Rex rabbits as a small income there and we have white New Zealand rabbits to breed for our large snakes and to sell the extras as pets. This is how we get by and are able to cover expenses that pop up.
Sundance will be gelded when we have the money, but if we want to keep him a stud that is really up to us. We aren't ever going to stud him out but it's not a crime that he bred Chanti. 
I will continue to post pics and will post pics after she foals. yes, I do know she is going to look worse after she foals and I expect that. The grass is coming in great and hopefully our hay supplier will have more hay this coming fall. We are already planning on stocking up with as much hay as we can find but this weekend after my husband gets paid I am going to get a bag of hay cubes and add that. I have used the corn oil before but I saw better results with wheat germ oil and they carry it at the local Orscheln's store. 
I am just as ready as Chanti for little Chica or Rebel to get here


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

horsecrazy84 said:


> All I am going to say is...we DO care. I do not like the fact that they are underweight and *except for a few weeks out of the winter they did have hay*. I have already explained why so won't go into that again. They are regularly dewormed and *get vet care as needed.* If something does happen and she needs a vet when she foals I have the emergency number to the vet I normally use.
> Yes, we have gone without dental visits for ourselves, I know all about giving up something I need in order to pay bills. I have needed to see a dentist for the past year and I deal with severe pain almost every day. We just can't afford it when it's either go get my teeth fixed or keep a roof over our head.
> Yes, we breed rats to feed our snakes. We breed snakes because that's a good income. Our first ever clutch of Ball Pythons are due the end of May and will sell from $75 up to $350 each and we have 6 good eggs. I will be breeding Mini Rex rabbits as a small income there and we have white New Zealand rabbits to breed for our large snakes and to sell the extras as pets. This is how we get by and are able to cover expenses that pop up.
> Sundance will be gelded when we have the money, but if we want to keep him a stud that is really up to us. We aren't ever going to stud him out but it's not a crime that he bred Chanti.
> ...


First bolded - nevermind, just bang head here.

Second bolded - She NEEDS vet care now - she NEEDS to be evaluated so that pregnancy can be confirmed or ruled out - she NEEDS to be evaluated for any underlying issues or results of the degraded body state she is in - she NEEDS the help of a qualified professional.


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## Mike_User (Oct 24, 2006)

horsecrazy84 said:


> I have needed to see a dentist for the past year and I deal with severe pain almost every day. We just can't afford it when it's either go get my teeth fixed or keep a roof over our head.


Horsecrazy84, 

I'm sorry, but if you're in such dire straits that you haven't been able to see a dentist for the past year despite being in severe pain every day, then the truth of the matter is that you have no business taking on another horse, and it is nothing short of reckless to not at least ensure that your mare can't get pregnant again since, based on your description of your financial situation, it sounds like the welfare of every living creature where you are is already at stake, including your own.

This thread was previously closed and then reopened when you made it clear that you were determined to continue discussing what may or may not be your horse's pregnancy despite the responses you were receiving by starting another thread about it. However, it seems that each additional detail you reveal makes it more clear that a productive discussion about this potential pregnancy simply cannot take place between yourself and conscientious, responsible horse keepers.

With that, I am closing this thread. You are welcome to start a thread about your foal if and when it is born, but unfortunately nothing can come of this thread's remaining open but more arguably justified expressions of frustration and outrage.

To be sure, the Horse Forum does pride itself in remaining friendly, helpful, and welcoming, but we are a community of animal lovers at the end of the day, and the community can only take so much...


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