# Is this asking too much of a horse?



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Any well trained horse should be able to watch others canter away without losing their mind. Even my spastic, sees a monster behind every bush, Arabian gelding stays calm if the rest of the group goes off. As long as I'm trotting behind, he's fine. 

I don't know what kind of badly trained horses your friends are used to, but I expect either of my riding horses to deal with it if the others gallop away and I don't want to go that fast.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

ITA with SR on this one


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

Can't see why not,the horse needs to listen to you, it would be the same as if their horse spooks and takes off, you need your horse to listen to you.. Be sure that when your horse stays you tell it good girl or boy.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

For me a horse thats been correctly trained has to do that, if he doesnt then he's not actually listening to you and then theres a risk that if something spooks him he will also not listen and bolt.
A couple of mine might dance a bit on the spot on occasions but thats all.
Your friends seem very inconsiderate to me. If you dont know how your horse is going to react then train him in an enclosed area with just one other horse going away from him - first at the walk and then move it up through trot to gallop as he learns what you want.


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## SwatRider (May 30, 2012)

I fully agree with all others. My friends and myself will take all three of our horses out and we all ride at different paces. They do not need to stay together in a group, they need to listen to the individual rider...which they do 99% of the time!


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

To me, *not* working towards that (and other things) as part of your training is expecting too little of the horse -


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## Shropshirerosie (Jan 24, 2012)

I agree with all the others that training a horse to be comfortable with the others leaving him behind is an important part of the horses education - but the OP isn't yet ready to deal with a gallop in a group, so I'm guessing that s/he doesn't yet have the skills or confidence to manage a horse who has a paddy when the rest of the group takes off.

It will come, with lots of training and confidence building on the part of the rider as well as the horse.


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## Heelsdown (Jun 5, 2011)

Okay so I'm not alone here. I've honestly found that real life is very different from what I've learned in forums. I feel like in real life, people know a lot about a little if that makes sense. The people I ride with know trail horses and that's it. I mentioned a few types of warmbloods once and they were like huh? But anyway, they know about trail riding in groups. Their horses are VERY herdbound and that is one trait I cannot stand in a horse. 
I don't own a horse yet. I'm on my 3rd year of lessons and I'm hoping this year to find a horse that is more independent minded. It's just when I mentioned them riding off and me meeting up with them, they were like "Are you crazy?" and laughed at the idea. I asked if there was a horse at the barn that would do that and they said no way. 

I love the barn where I ride but I don't want a horse that is basically nothing but a string horse that will kill itself and/or me if it sees its buddy ride away.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Even a well trained string horse won't lose its mind if its buddies gallop off.

When I went riding with a group in Wyoming, we used ranch horses. They wanted to gallop off, and I didn't. The horse I was riding called a little, but he was by no means uncontrollable.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

I am still working on this with my horse. Yesterday I got her to not bolt after the others but she was definately doing a jig and throwing a hissy fit. I will not tolerate her running after the others if I don't want her to. 

But I also have to work on getting her to not bolt away from the group as well....sigh


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## Heelsdown (Jun 5, 2011)

Well that's a relief to know that I'm expecting too much of my hypothetical horse, lol. I don't know why they feel this is something that is too much. But like I said, I've found people on forums like this to be much more knowledgeable about horses overall. Where in real life, it seems like people know what occurs in their barn or with their group of friends. I guess nobody has seen a horse just mosey along while others take off so they think it's not possible, or at least, very rare.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

I wouldn't (amateur that I am) say that it's too much to ask, I'd say it's necessary training. Suppose someday you HAVE to leave the others? I try for a little riding away on every ride, though not yet cantering. Either we trot ahead (because the other riders are moseying along having a good girl gossip), or I stay behind for a bit.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

When I was taking out rides in the UK we would let the walkers and trotters go on ahead, and then we cantered to catch up. Figured the walkers and trotters were less experienced, so it was less hassle doing it that way around.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Golden Horse said:


> When I was taking out rides in the UK we would let the walkers and trotters go on ahead, and then we cantered to catch up. Figured the walkers and trotters were less experienced, so it was less hassle doing it that way around.


 I can remember doing that too - fairly common practice i think back then. At one place I worked at they were only allowed to canter in a field with the gate safely shut and I had to wait at the bottom while they all cantered (mad gallop) off to the top then get off and retrieve all the loose horses that people had fallen off and get them all remounted again. Such fun!!!
When my husband was young he used to go to a trekking centre in Wales where most of the ponies weren't even really broke - they just followed the one in front.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Your horse should be fine if she is well trained. The reality of the situation is that she might be rude and obnoxious if the others gallop off. It might be easier just to gallop along rather than fight a jiggy monster.


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## Heelsdown (Jun 5, 2011)

lol the jiggy monster. I don't know what is scarier, fighting the monster or cantering on the trail! 

I won't be able to do it since everyone including the barn owner said it's asking too much of the horse. I don't own a horse yet so I'll respect her wishes. I'm entering my 3rd year of lessons. I have two years of lessons now. I'm hoping in another year to have my own horse and then I can have the freedom to do as I please. It's a shame because I'd love to go trail riding with this group as I'm friends with many of the riders.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

If my horse freaked out like that, we would be having a serious come to jesus talk.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Time to start looking for your own horse.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Hmm a lesson barn that doesn't believe in having obedient horses? I have issues with my horse with this but she is still green broke and insanely stubborn and I can handle her outbursts. But a lesson horse should know better.


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

Most horses I know would get upset if the rest of the ride galloped off, my tb would have a mental breakdown:lol:, but that doesn't mean that all those horses wouldn't be ok and rideable with their experienced riders. I would expect them to bounce and leap a bit and "ask" to join the galloping riders but hopefully that would be it. It is not something I would expect a novice horse or rider to be able to cope with, that takes time and confidence. My haflinger would be fine and so would my pony but they are both used to doing this. As a rule we would never hack with people who would gallop off if someone just wanted to walk as they didn't feel safe.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Here's my take.

It's not an unreasonable request to make but for some horses it seems like its a Very Big Deal. Horses are herd creatures. They don't have to run the fastest but outrun the last guy. It goes against instinct to stay behind whole you're buddies run off. 

It's trainable. You can get the horse to believe in you and to be OK with the others running away. For some horses it doesn't take much effort if any, for others it takes a lot.

My horse does a very pretty series of airs above the ground when he buddies run off. He used to somersault, so this is a huge improvement!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I agree with Dancing that to want to catch up is a strong instinct. If you hold him back, by whatever method you may use, you may find him getting fearful enough to buck. In the herd when one signals the others to go, it's not questioned, they must go. It's a rare horse that can remain relaxed while the others take off, that he has that much confidence in the rider. Ever notice in a pleasure class when a lope or canter is called for how the horse that's held back while the rider wants to be sure of a correct strike off, can get antsy. Because the horse does get allowed to canter with the others it settles down.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

My mare is the spookiest of my three horses, but she is also the leader. If the others wanted to move off without her, she'd do fine - although you might have trouble getting them to go very far without her. OTOH, if SHE moves out, the riders of the geldings had better be ready to move out too.

It is a training issue. My youngest daughter wants to start training Trooper to go solo, just as I am training Mia to go out solo. If and when she does, we'll work on having Mia & Trooper split up and rejoin in a calm & rational manner while out.

But I would not assume a horse would do that. I recently heard an actor talking about his time acting in westerns during the 60s. He said one of the bit actors was killed when the scene called for them to mount up and gallop off in a posse. The guy had one of the horses in the rear, and didn't get mounted up before the rest galloped off. His horse took off while he was still mounting and he had one foot hung up in the stirrup...


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Nope never assume  but I would expect a lesson horse to be trained well enough to handle itself on it's own. I would ask ahead of time how his training is before assuming he could stay on his own but I would be appauled if they told me they would never expect a horse to be trained that way. 

With your example that is a good reason why you don't want your horse taking off with the others. What if you aren't ready yet, you can always catch up later.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I believe that the OP said that this was a horse that belongs to her stable. The BO probably knows that the horse won't cooperate with staying behind. It seems to me that the barn should be willing to offer some slower trail rides. On the other hand, galloping is fun. I think that you should bite the bullet and go for it.


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## Heelsdown (Jun 5, 2011)

The thing is the BO said that this is too much to expect of "A" horse, not just her horses. And the people in this group all said that too. :? It would be one thing if they said, "Oh no you can't do that with these horses". They said that's too much for any horse. That's why I walked away thinking that I was expecting too much when the time comes that I do buy a horse. 

I DO want to try cantering on the trail as it does seem like fun. But I want to know that I could slow down my horse if I didn't feel comfortable. That's not going to happen here. 

bsms, that is a good point that you mention about a leader horse. The horses that I ride aren't really what I'd call leaders. They are definitely followers so I know that if the other horses take off, they will too. I can see how a horse that is more of a leader could be content doing its own thing.


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## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

Heelsdown said:


> I know horses are naturally herdbound, but is it asking too much of a horse to see other riders on the trail canter away on their horses while your horse stays in a walk?
> 
> There is a place on the trail where the other riders like to go galloping off. I don't feel ready to do that. Because of this, I don't go on any of the rides with this group because of that one spot. I can do the rest of the trail no problem. It's that one place where they like to gallop that I'm in no way ready to do.
> I mentioned that I could always just stay behind and walk/trot my horse to catch up with them. They all said that no way would any horse do that. It takes a truly special horse to see the other horses go and stay back.
> ...


My mare will stay back by herself or with another horse if the others canter off. At first she would get antsy about it and prance around but now she walks along nicely or trots if I ask her to.


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## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

Heelsdown said:


> Well that's a relief to know that I'm expecting too much of my hypothetical horse, lol. I don't know why they feel this is something that is too much. But like I said, I've found people on forums like this to be much more knowledgeable about horses overall. Where in real life, it seems like people know what occurs in their barn or with their group of friends. I guess nobody has seen a horse just mosey along while others take off so they think it's not possible, or at least, very rare.


LOL it took alot of work with my mare but she definetly will mosey along behind everyone, sometimes I'm a good block behind them! Like I said I did alot of work with her with friends who would go on ahead and I would make my mare walk, at first I had to do a hundred circles to slow her down.....now she doesn't care too much unless they get right out of view, which has happened a few times this fall but she just picked up her pace walking.....


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## bbsmfg3 (Aug 12, 2010)

Heelsdown said:


> everyone including the barn owner said it's asking too much of the horse.


I hope the barn owner is not your teacher. With a comment like that, she doesn't know how to train horses. 

If you canter along to avoid the problem, you are teaching the horse that it is ok to stay with the group and not have to stay alone. Remember most horse are taught based on what the rider tells them to do. If you tell them wrong, that is what they are being trained to do.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

I do not think it is too much to ask of a horse, to stand nicely while the others gallop off, but it is certainly something that must be trained for the horse to understand. 

I can use my own horse as an example in this. He's 6 years old and I just purchased him in May. I've not gotten the opportunity to ride in a large group of people (most of the riding I do is solo) but based on his personality, he would be the type to "freak out" when the other horses go galloping off. I know at this point in time he is not ready to be made to stand still. I would have to do random exercises with him (circles, serpentines, flexing, etc) to keep his attention on me and not the other horses. But it is something to work toward and something he could eventually handle. But I know right now if he was in that situation, he's want to run with them. 

It's all about what you horse has been trained to do and their personality, and how you handle it. 

I do find it very rude and disrespectful that ALL the riders in your group would leave you behind, just because you aren't ready to gallop yet. Apparently they've forgotten how scary it can be to RUN on a horse when you aren't ready to do so. Shame on them for not finding a useable working situation for all of you.


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## Wallee (Mar 7, 2012)

Def not to much to ask, The horse should be listening to the rider not the other horses!


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## Heelsdown (Jun 5, 2011)

bbsmfg3 said:


> I hope the barn owner is not your teacher. With a comment like that, she doesn't know how to train horses.


She is, lol. The thing is, she does know a lot about horses, no doubt. But there are many things she has said that conflicts what I've read here. For example, there is a gaited horse there that paces. Everything I've read on this board has suggested that a pacing horse is undesirable. She was trying to get me to buy the horse and said that the pacing is okay. It's just how that horse does his gait. Off topic, but just an example of something that conflicts what I read on forums. 
I think from doing only ringwork and string trail rides she thinks this is how all horses are. 



> I do find it very rude and disrespectful that ALL the riders in your group would leave you behind, just because you aren't ready to gallop yet. Apparently they've forgotten how scary it can be to RUN on a horse when you aren't ready to do so. Shame on them for not finding a useable working situation for all of you


I'm okay just doing the walk/trot thing with the other group for now. But I am friends with the advanced people and I'd love to ride with them. But I do not want to be the person that slows everyone down. Also, I'm afraid that if they did agree to not gallop in that one spot that we'd get out there and they'd be like, "Oh come on just do it!" and I'd be all :shock:

I'm going to ask if maybe one person is willing to stay behind with me and we can trot and do a little bit of cantering to catch up. If we do the trot/canter thing versus an all out canter/gallop, I can get a better feel for it. Surely if one horse stays behind, both horses should be fine because they have a buddy. I hope. :lol:


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

Pssh. No way is that too much to ask!!

My mare is fine with it, now she is anyway.

Since you know where they're going to galloping off, just stay relaxed.

What I did is I would ask my horse to stop before anyone went galloping away, if she couldn't stand we walked a circle, once I was sure she wouldn't take off, I just walked after everyone else.

Just be wary that your horse might scoot forward or do something silly


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## LikeaTB (May 28, 2012)

No, its not asking to much. IMO you want your horse to look at you as his leader and not his herdmates (when you are around) and be perfectly content staying with you.
*I'll add later, I saw something about this in a book and it explained it really well and I'll have to look it up


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

Heelsdown said:


> I'm going to ask if maybe one person is willing to stay behind with me and we can trot and do a little bit of cantering to catch up. If we do the trot/canter thing versus an all out canter/gallop, I can get a better feel for it. Surely if one horse stays behind, both horses should be fine because they have a buddy. I hope. :lol:


The other option is for YOU to go on ahead while the rest of the group waits, and when you have gotten to wherever they normally slow, you can wait for then to gallop to YOU. Much kinder to a beginner rider than expecting you to potentially deal with an upset horse that was left behind.


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## Nikkibella (Mar 10, 2012)

I take group lessons once or twice a week and in the lesson of up to 10 horses and we almost always split the group and half of them stand in the middle of the arena while the others canter to keep it safer . Ive also done this with just myself and one other friend so i know it is not just because there were other horses standing in the middle with me in the group lessons . As long as your horse respects you as a leader you should have no problem


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## Mochachino (Aug 14, 2012)

I wouldn't have my horse any other way. I have a 3 year old and I was hand walking in the trails and another girl who leases my QH was riding along side us. On the trail she asked to canter and asked if my 3 year old would be ok. I said fine, prepared myself and off they went. 3 year old tried to take up a trot in hand and I brought him to a stop and then we walked off. No problem. Maybe at the point they canter off, stay on the ground holding him and turn and walk him back. You could see how he reacts with you on the ground, before you try it in saddle. Just a thought.


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## Heelsdown (Jun 5, 2011)

Thank you all so much for the wonderful suggestions. It's such a relief to know that it is possible to stay behind. I guess I'll just have to wait until I have my own horse before that happens though. 

I think I am going to ask them to let me go on ahead. Good idea. And then I'll let them catch up to me. :wink:


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## enzoleya (May 12, 2007)

I can ride my mare away from a group without a lot of fight, but if all the other horses take off at a run she gets wound. I think about any horse does at least a little. Fight or flight is what they do and if they see a bunch of other horses taking off they may think there is some sort of danger. To be honest if I were you I wouldn't try it unless you know from experience that the horse won't care, or at least take the horse in the opposite direction before they take off (if your horse is ok with that). It could be dangerous and scary to hold back a horse that's trying to take off after a herd. I never take off loping/galloping if I'm with a beginner rider.


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## shandasue (Nov 22, 2011)

I didnt read all of the posts' so sorry if I repeat. that's just crazy! have you been at this barn for two years? If so, ask to ride the horse you are most comfortable with and try to stay behind anyway... your the one riding the horse not the BO.. im sorry if that sounds snobby... If you get too nervous just get off and walk the horse and don't worry about what your friends will say. Also, is it possible you could go out with only one other person untill your comfortable?
My mare LOVES to run, and when shes hyped up, boyyyy is she hyped up! Sometimes im stuck riding bareback; I only have one saddle & most of the time the person on my other mare is less experianced so they get the saddle. If the group wants to run and jerseys hyped up, and im bareback you better believe she'll stay behind! That is NOT to much to ask. Before we were to this point I either told them not to run, or stayed behind and she had a hissy fit, eventually i started asking them to run off so I could work with her. now she just walks alittle faster than normal. Dont be afraid (not saying that you are) to ask them not to run, or too get off the horse to stay behind; that would be good practice for the horse also, without you being in danger. if they are your friends they will understand.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LisaG (Nov 11, 2012)

Your horse should stay behind, but they don't always do what they're supposed to. A lot of it depends on the rider's confidence and skill level. The horse you're riding may throw a hissy fit or bolt after the other riders (which I'm thinking is the case, since the bo said it was too much to expect). You should be prepared to deal with that before you ride off with the mad gallopers.

I'm not saying you shouldn't go on a trail ride with these folks, or that you shouldn't expect your horse to behave. But if your horse doesn't behave, you'll need to be prepared to deal with it. That's all.


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## tim62988 (Aug 30, 2012)

I don't think it should be too much to ask. I am still getting used to my horse and working on her gaits so we arn't going fast so I just keep her slowed down while everyone else takes off which I think is actually making me a better rider and also making my horse better by teaching her that we are a team and the others can do whatever they want listen to me


*What I am curious about and I hope others can answer*: what about building up a buffer zone? you know when the others will take off so let them get 40, 60, 100 yards out so they are out of sight when they start their canter.

another one of the first things my trainer taught me, the horse can't run too well if their nose is in your knee. so be confident, relax, and don't be affraid to be authoratative if you need to be


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