# Riding/Jumping Critique



## haleylvsshammy (Jun 29, 2010)

This probably isn't what you're going to want to hear, but IMO if he's only been off the track since August he should not be jumping. He needs time to learn how to balance himself without leaning before jumps should be added to the equation. Lots of flatwork and dressage will help him become a nicely balanced horse and will make a big difference when you start jumping again. Spend several months just on flatwork, and you'll be amazed at the difference when you jump.

If you look at his back legs when he takes off, you can see that they aren't together like you see most horses when they jump. When they are together it means that the horse is balanced coming up to the jump, is using his hind end and doesn't have to lurch over the jump to get over it. (You can see this horse took off with his back feet together because he was balanced up to the jump)









Your horse isn't quite there yet, but with time he'll get there. He needs to learn how to properly use himself before he tackles the challenge and stress of jumping.

He sure is gorgeous, good luck with him.


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## LexiJumper (Aug 22, 2011)

I've worked with two different trainers on him and neither have said anything of the sort. But I will definitely lay off the jumping for a while and discuss it with my current trainer. He's not like most off the track tbs, but I know that there is a limit to that. Also, these are very small x-rails and we were trotting them, not cantering. Could that effect anything?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

First, please, please, please, try to remember to untwist your reins when you get on. That is a pet peeve of mine.

I think instead of jumping small cross rails, you should be trotting ground poles and cavalettis. I don't see it as a problem that you are jumping him so soon, but in the pictures he looks really confused with the whole jumping thing. I would just practice cavalettis for a while just so he gets the right idea about jumping and learns to pick his legs up.

As for you, RELAX. You seem very tense and nervous. You are planting your hands down on your horses withers and not letting him relax either...so now you have a tense rider and a tense horse, not a good combination. Take a deep breath and just relax your back and your hands. You should be carrying your hands above his withers, and to slow him down, don't keep a steady pull, that is the worst thing you can do with an OTTB, because they will pull against you and not slow down at all. That's how they are taught in the track...the jockey keeps a steady pull on their mouth and the horse pulls against it to run faster. If your horse is hanging on your hands and you need to slow him down, just give and take, pull back then give him is head.

AS for the jumping pictures, you seem very loose in the tack, your heals are up, you're jumping ahead, you are ducking on the horses neck too much, putting too much weight on his forehand, which makes it hard for him to rock back and launch off his back legs. Also you are sitting down too soon after the jump. Practice your 2-point and all three gaits and over trot poles and canter poles, to build up your muscles. And I think your stirrups should go up a whole.

I understand that this horse has a new job, and you have to remember that you have to support him and help him every step of the way, you need to be a rider and guide him with confidence and give him clear cues to what you want every time you get on him.

He is a very pretty horse, and seems like he is willing to learn. Good luck with him.

I do want to ask, why are you using that bit on him? I usually just use an egg butt or D-ring on OTTBs, that bit seems like it is better for a horse that already has training.


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## LexiJumper (Aug 22, 2011)

I was using a dutch gag but my trainer suggested this one. It's soft, plastic and he does well with it. He's extremely calm for an ottb. Not much of a puller and has a great mind, he listens so its not necessary to use a hard bit on him. When I went to look at him, he had raced earlier that day and the previous owner jumped on him bareback with a halter. He's such a good boy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

LexiJumper said:


> I was using a dutch gag but my trainer suggested this one. It's soft, plastic and he does well with it. He's extremely calm for an ottb. Not much of a puller and has a great mind, he listens so its not necessary to use a hard bit on him. When I went to look at him, he had raced earlier that day and the previous owner jumped on him bareback with a halter. He's such a good boy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



It is a bit that is more on the harsher side though. It puts pressure on their pole. Usually horses that are green don't take well to pole pressure. Those bits are usually used on horses that are more trained. But if he works in it, I don't really see it as a problem. I was just confused as to why you would need to use that on a OTTB.


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## LexiJumper (Aug 22, 2011)

He hasn't had a problem with it but would you suggest something different?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

LexiJumper said:


> He hasn't had a problem with it but would you suggest something different?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I ride a lot of OTTBs, and I just use a D-ring snaffle, I also like using loose ring snaffles too. Trying different bits doesn't hurt. I rode one horse that I tried about 40 different bits on, I finally found one that worked, but she was a difficult horse.


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## LexiJumper (Aug 22, 2011)

Also, its a happy mouth bit of some sort, is that what you were thinking?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

Happy mouths come with a lot of different cheek pieces, see...

Dover Saddlery - Search Results for happy mouth[[SLI_IDC]]&ids=971917897

You could get another Happy Mouth with a different cheek piece that doesn't put pressure on the pole.

These are just suggestions...maybe you can talk it over with your trainer? Ask why they wanted you to use that gag bit. I'm sure there is a good reason for it.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I like to use an eggbutt with greenies, or just a simple loose ring. I would definitely be working on flatwork before putting the jumps in front of him. One thing I don't think anyone's mentioned is your piano hands; they're practically sitting on his neck as well as being rotated inward.


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## SpottedDraftRider (Jun 26, 2011)

Flatwork: I would first start by untwisting your reins. Second, I would do some stretches before I mounted, and take a few deep breaths every couple of strides to help relax. Then, I would move the stirrup iron to the ball of your foot. After, I would have you engage your stomach muscles to make your back straight. Finally, you should turn your hands up.

Jumping: You have a roached back, and your pinching with your knees. Pull your shoulders back, and put all of your weight into your heels.

Horse: I love his markings first of all. As someone else has said, he isn't balanced and could benefit from some dressage work. This is a typical OTTB thing, they all have "bicycle" turns. Basic dressage can be tedious, but is really worth it in the end. If I were you, I wouldn't be jumping him. I would be going over poles to help him learn how to place his hooves.


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## anrz (Dec 21, 2008)

Your horse is very cute! He looks like he'll make a great little jumper when he's more experienced .
Like what someone else said earlier, relax. Take a deep breath, let it out slowly. Shake out your shoulders and your legs and stretch out your hip flexors. Any tension in your body will translate to tension in _his_ body.
Your horse seems to be bracing against the bit. Don't forget to soften your hands when you get the reaction you get. A horse can't brace if you don't give them anything to brace against!
A detail that I think will improve your leg and stability will be to put the stirrups on the balls of your feet (they are too close to your heels), and turn the stirrup so the outside branch is leading. This will allow you to stretch farther into your heels.
Your position over fences needs a bit of work. You say that you attempt to "meet his neck". Instead, try allowing his neck to meet _you_. This will improve your habit of ducking close to his neck. Your stirrups seem a bit long for jumping- you aren't able to properly get your heels down, which pulls your base of support right out from under you. You are also sitting down too early- what helped me was to stay in two-point position a stride or two after the fence. The last thing you want to do right now is to punish him by hitting him in the back when he lands. I as well would be focusing mainly on dressage- no jumping yet. If you skip over the basics now (not saying that you are!) you will run into issues down the road.
I would suggest working on your jumping with other horses that have more training, as well, so you can further your skills and be able to help him better.
Lastly, I would strongly suggest consider switching out your bit for one less harsh. If he isn't a horse that gets strong, then why are you using a strong bit on him? If you aren't sure, I would definitely talk to your trainer so you are all on the same page.
Here is a picture that I love for a position reference:








See how Chase Boggio's heels are down, he isn't pinching with his knees, and he is centered over the saddle? This is what you want. His release is a touch too high, but he has excellent upper body control.
This turned out really long, but I hope it helps . Good luck!


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## LexiJumper (Aug 22, 2011)

I was using the Dutch Gag bit to encourage him to lower his head, he did ok with it but he does better with the Happy Mouth bit. I'll definitely do the Cavaletties with him. 

We moved onto jumping with him instead of just doing flat because he doesn't have any real problems with it. He has a steady pace, doesn't try to race when at the canter, great impulsion, and he's always listening. But I do think that taking a tiny step back to doing some small Cavalettis would be a very smart decision.

So lets see, I need to work on my hand position, which I know is horrid. Releasing and holding them up a little more, untwisting my reins, and relaxing. I didn't feel very tense when these were taken honestly, but I have gotten in the habit of anticipating the fence. But yes, I do know about the pulling, with an ottb the half halt is a life saver.

What exactly do you mean by "you're jumping ahead, you are ducking on the horses neck too much"? I'm leaning forward too much or I'm bending too much?

As for building up my muscles at the 2-point, every time I ride I do work on all three gaites while at the 2-point for a good 10-15 minutes usually.
Should I hold my 2-point through the downward transition as well when jumping?


Thanks for the critique guys.


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## LexiJumper (Aug 22, 2011)

AND, I'm sorry I didn't see that last post. I wasn't fully aware that that was a harsh bit, from what I've seen I assumed it was gentle.

I know my release sucks, and these pictures really didn't help my case on that one. But I typically do release a little more than that to let him stretch out his neck over the jump.

I JUST noticed how long my stirrups look, I will slide them up right away, wow that looks bad. xD


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

LexiJumper said:


> I was using the Dutch Gag bit to encourage him to lower his head,


This is where you have it wrong. At this stage in his training, you should not be pulling his head down with a special bit, nor should you be asking him to lower his head while ignoring the rest of the body. This is not true collection. Work this horse from back to front, encouraging him to bring his hind legs up under him and round his topline. I think this horse could be a great-looking dressage horse with training.


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## LexiJumper (Aug 22, 2011)

My first trainer had said that it would encourage him to do so, it didn't really have much to do with me, just the fact that he was holding his head very high close to when I first got him which my trainer said could damage his back in the long run.


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## palmettogirl915 (Jul 27, 2010)

LexiJumper said:


> My first trainer had said that it would encourage him to do so, it didn't really have much to do with me, just the fact that he was holding his head very high close to when I first got him which my trainer said could damage his back in the long run.


You shouldn't need this type of bit to encourage him to put his head down. Especially if he is acting as good as you say and not pulling as many OTTBs do. If you look at the pictures where you can see him from the side, his neck looks very thin, which means he needs lots of ground work and collection work (with the right bit) to build that up. Horses use their head and necks to balance over jumps and if he doesn't have the muscles to help do that he's going to struggle.

More on the bit, I use a sweet iron full cheek hollow snaffle for my mare. Sweet iron or copper bits help encourage salivation which often helps the horse accept the bit and give to it. I'm personally not a fan of rubber bits. I tried one on my mare and she just didn't like it. It's a personal, case-by-case thing really.

Here's the thread where the rubber vs. metal discussions happens: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-tack-equipment/rubber-bits-vs-metal-21824/

Your trainer is correct. In the long-term having your horse jack his head up can cause a problem, but by using the correct bit and doing the proper ground work you have plenty of time to encourage his to soften his neck and head position. With a bit like that, and your jumping form still unstable, you risk yanking on his mouth. Enough of that you risk souring him on jumping all together. 

As for you and the horse, everyone else hit on pretty much everything form-wise. If I were your trainer, not matter how well your gelding is behaving, I would not have started either you or the horse jumping yet. I would have started you on ground poles and cavalletti to help build your balance and form, and (no offense to your trainer) when you did start jumping I would be teaching your jumping lessons on a more experienced horse and then giving you flat work lessons on your gelding.

I'm a huge fan of cavalletti. HUGE lol! When I moved my horses down to college with me my dad build me a set of cavalletti to take with me. I schooled her over those for weeks before starting her back over jumps, and she is an experienced jumper. If you can get them (or make them, they are easy to build) I would! 

My advice: Take your time and don't rush this process. You need to lay the ground work for jumping for both you and your horse. I know jumping is exciting and you're ready to go, but you learning to jump on a green horse is just risking a lot for the both of you. By the way, your boy looks like he had a very kind expression and seems to be trying for you even though he doesn't know what he's doing; he's got potential!


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## anrz (Dec 21, 2008)

LexiJumper said:


> What exactly do you mean by "you're jumping ahead, you are ducking on the horses neck too much"? I'm leaning forward too much or I'm bending too much?
> 
> As for building up my muscles at the 2-point, every time I ride I do work on all three gaites while at the 2-point for a good 10-15 minutes usually.
> Should I hold my 2-point through the downward transition as well when jumping?
> ...


Sorry, I should have clarified! By jumping ahead, I meant that your seat and upper body isn't centered over the saddle. So you are tipping/leaning forwards too much. By 'ducking', I meant that you are bringing your upper body too close to the horse's neck over the fences. You can especially see it in the "whoops" photo, where your upper body is too close. In the other photos, it looks like you are still ducking slightly, although not quite as much! Just something to be aware of. When you jump, don't change your upper body too much, just let the horse come up to you when he jumps and it will naturally close your hip angle.
As for holding your two-point during downwards transitions, I would say yes. I think it's good practice, IF you use your shoulders to get the transition, not just pulling back with your hands.
Good luck, and I hope this helps! You've got a great horse there .


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## LexiJumper (Aug 22, 2011)

palmettogirl915 said:


> Your trainer is correct. In the long-term having your horse jack his head up can cause a problem, but by using the correct bit and doing the proper ground work you have plenty of time to encourage his to soften his neck and head position. With a bit like that, and your jumping form still unstable, you risk yanking on his mouth. Enough of that you risk souring him on jumping all together.
> 
> As for you and the horse, everyone else hit on pretty much everything form-wise. If I were your trainer, not matter how well your gelding is behaving, I would not have started either you or the horse jumping yet. I would have started you on ground poles and cavalletti to help build your balance and form, and (no offense to your trainer) when you did start jumping I would be teaching your jumping lessons on a more experienced horse and then giving you flat work lessons on your gelding.
> 
> ...


Not exactly what I was hoping to hear, but I'll quit jumping. I understand everybody's reasoning. So it's probably for the best that we stop. Thank you all for taking the time to respond, but I don't think that there is much more to it.

Thanks guys. :wave:


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