# Have You Ever Heard of a Rule Like This?



## sixlets (May 1, 2009)

So, I've been at this barn for over a year now, and just found out this rather odd rule. Though it is not written down, nor in my board agreement, the BO is saying that no one is allowed to ride horses other than their own if they are not in lessons or working it off. This came up because my mom started taking lessons instead of me, and I was riding a horse for a friend with permission from her and her parents. Then the BO told me I was not allowed to ride my FRIEND'S horse because "there are plenty of other girls who are in lessons and working to ride him." She told this to my mother, to which my mother said something along the lines of "but my daughter has permission from the owner of the horse." The BO said too bad. So, apparently, if I ever wanted to have a friend of mine come out and ride my horse that would not be allowed. ??? Has anyone ever heard of a rule like this? Shouldn't I be allowed to choose who can and cannot ride my horse? The BO said that it was a liability thing, but everyone who comes out to the barn has to sign a waver, so that should not be a problem, right? And I was thinking about it, if it was a liability issue then wouldn't every barn have that rule? Please let me know if I'm being ridiculous thinking that the horse owner should have control over who rides their horse.

P.S.
After I did talk to the horse owner, and she had not been informed of the "rule" either, and thought it was weird.

P.P.S.
I have let other girls at the barn ride my horse while the BO watched, she never said a thing, and now she's saying that was against the rules. It's sounding to me like this is more a personal attack against me, rather than a barn rule.


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## hrsrdr (Jul 12, 2008)

Your BO needs to get a liability SIGN, and post it where everyone can see it. I think that relieves you of having to do the waivers. Sounds like she is just one of the more paranoid type... I can understand that she is just being smart and doesn't want to get pulled into a big mess with people trying to sue her for an injury on horseback. But that usually happens with people who don't know horses and are shocked when a family member gets hurt and want to sue. Usually, people who actually have some background with horses don't sue easily. It's kind of a mess, but I can see where she's coming from. Then again, if she's going to make it a rule she needs to make sure she's understood and stick to it, not make it conditional. Maybe its time to look for a barn with a more reasonable owner...I would be a little annoyed if someone was telling me who could ride my horse.


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

This seems odd. If you have permission to ride the other girls horse, get it in writing. Your BO shouldn't have any control over peoples own personal horses. 

If it was a rule for a school horse....this would be more understandable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I have never heard of a rule like that, it is up to the owner of the horse who rides it. 

Does this rule mean that the BO is letting her students ride your friends horse and she was not aware of that? I would be livid about this.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Signs and liability waivers protect you more than not having them, but they don't mean you still can't get sued. 

I would imagine she is worried about the liability. Maybe you could ask her if she would be willing to arrange something where you would have it in writing for your friend to ride your horse to make her feel like she has more protection?

I've never heard of this before. Every rider at my barn has to sign a waiver (and we have signs posted). Minors have to wear helmets. Otherwise so long as the owner of the horse gives permission, those choices are left up to the owners. Weird.


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## sixlets (May 1, 2009)

AlexS said:


> I have never heard of a rule like that, it is up to the owner of the horse who rides it.
> 
> Does this rule mean that the BO is letting her students ride your friends horse and she was not aware of that? I would be livid about this.


I'm not really sure, but at the last schooling show the BO allowed a girl to ride this horse in a class without letting the owner know. I also rode the horse but asked the owners first. I do know of a time that the BO had allowed students to ride a horse when the owner said no one could ride him. I just happened to be there when the owner said no and when the owner found out the BO wasn't listening (not pretty).

SD: Why wouldn't it? I believe in the liability wavers the BO has it specifically says that you cannot sue her or the barn. Would someone still be able to sue?

We were already moving my gelding to a different barn that is closer to trails so my mom could ride him, and were planning to bring Dulcinea to the barn in question when she comes home. We aren't now. I'm fully moving barns now, as I cannot deal with being at such a strict barn with the rules constantly changing. It's kind of driving me nuts.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

As a barn owner I can tell you this is not a common rule and is over-bearing IMO, but I do understand her point of view. I have signs posted every where and I liability waivers available in the tackroom for their guests to sign. Any guest caught without a waiver on file, the boarder is fined $50 and this IS in my barn rules and boarding contract. My state's liability statute is also at the bottom of all my forms. 

A boarder can do whatever they want with their own horse unless its instructing and then they have to pay an arena fee and it is subject to my approval. Sorry but no one is going to make money off of my blood, sweat and tears without ME getting a share. My name and business reputation is on the line whether it's me teaching or not so I may step-in there.

I suspect the barn owner is just being stingy. She is trying to gain more lesson, leasing and training customers. "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free" so to speak. If you ride a boarder's horse, you could technically be "stealing" a training ride fee from her.


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## sixlets (May 1, 2009)

^^^ That sounds like something she would do. Then again, she hasn't ever had a problem with owners letting other people ride their horses, until me. Apparently, according to other boarders and lessonees, the BO has disliked me for a long time. Sucks for me I guess, she's just loosing more money by alientating me.

Thanks everyone for the input! It's nice knowing that I'm not a total idiot in thinking it was a weird rule haha


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

starlinestables said:


> I suspect the barn owner is just being stingy. She is trying to gain more lesson, leasing and training customers. "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free" so to speak. If you ride a boarder's horse, you could technically be "stealing" a training ride fee from her.



If the BO is using a boarder's horse for "lessons" then she better get permission. 

That is a total breech of trust between the horse's owner and the BO.

What if I went up to ride my horse to train and find him totally off the aids and tired. That would be stealing my time with my horse plus I could get sued should the person riding my horse have a fall.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

There have been some issues come up at barns where someone will say that they have permission to ride X horse and really don't and it then leads to all sort of headaches when the owner of the horse finds out. If this particular BO has ever gone through this, they may have decided that they were just going to make an across the board rule that folks can only ride the horses they own to curb any of the drama. However, if this is the case she should make an addendum to her boarding contracts and have everyone read and sign off on the new rule.


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## sixlets (May 1, 2009)

Spyder said:


> If the BO is using a boarder's horse for "lessons" then she better get permission.
> 
> That is a total breech of trust between the horse's owner and the BO.


That never happened with my horse, but I have seen it done and it did cause me to loose trust in the BO, but when I first saw it I thought it was just a mistake and moved on. Then the BO allowed a lesson girl to ride a boarder's horse in a schooling show without the horse owner knowing or giving permission. That happened a month ago, and I started looking around at other barns after seeing that, along with a bunch of other stuff going on. (This is really the tip of the iceberg with my BO). 

Cat: The rule is more like only people in lessons or working at the barn can ride horses other than their on, even with permission from the owner. I totally would understand where the BO was coming from if what you said was the case, except any drama caused by kids riding horses without permission from the horse owner was because the BO had given the kid permission without the knowledge of the owner. I've seen this occur twice in the year and a half I've been there, and in one of the occasions it caused drama. In the other the horse owner didn't say anything because she's a 13 y.o.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

No one should be able to ride a boarders horse unless they have an email or signed consent including the barn owner! You are wise to look for another place! Why does she not like you?


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## livestoride (Mar 30, 2011)

Wow! If I ever found out someone else was riding my horse I would be livid! There is no excuse ever to ride someone else's horse without approval.

I tend to think she is looking at it as lost money. If you don't have a horse to ride and use a friend's horse at the barn then she is loosing out on you spending money to ride in a lesson or losing your cheap labor. You are smart to move your horse. A private horse is the owner's responsibility and it is up to the owner to decide who can or can not ride. Good luck at your new barn.


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## sixlets (May 1, 2009)

starlinestables said:


> No one should be able to ride a boarders horse unless they have an email or signed consent including the barn owner! You are wise to look for another place! Why does she not like you?


From what others have told me it started last June. We had been planning on going on an overnight trail ride, and so the BO charged everyone going $100 dollars to pay for gas to get to the park and to rent out one of the barns there. All the parents of the girls had paid, and then the BO decided that we should instead just bring tents to our barn and ride around the property. I was okay with that, and asked for my money back, since it wouldn't be needed to pay for gas or the rental barn. But the BO refused, saying she had already used the money. I was not happy, and though the other girls have no back bone with her (they will admit that) I talked with some of the parents to let them know what was going on. Of course the parents weren't happy either, so they talked to her. We did end up going to the park, so the BO wouldn't have to give us the money back.

And that's when it all started....


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## ArabianChic (Mar 29, 2011)

> but at the last schooling show the BO allowed a girl to ride this horse in a class without letting the owner know.


If I was the horse's owner I would NOT be happy about that. Just because the horse is at the BO's barn, doesn't mean it's "hers" to give out to other riders.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

If I knew the BO was letting others ride my horse without my permission, I would move, not just that day, but that hour. I would be livid.


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## drzult (Dec 6, 2008)

At my old boarding barn they had a rule where no one but the boarder could ride a horse. I thought it was a stupid rule when I was boarding there, but that was the rule and it was posted on the wall and in our boarding contract. My boyfriend was not allowed to sit on my horse and walk around the arena. Even other boarders at the barn were not allowed to try my horse. The only time anyone was allowed was if it was during a lesson with my permission.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

It sounds like this barn has a whole list of other issues going on than this one. 



hrsrdr said:


> Your BO needs to get a liability SIGN, and post it where everyone can see it. I think that relieves you of having to do the waivers.


Not all states have an Equine Limited Liability law. The sign thing may sound like a warm and fuzzy truth but it is not really that simply.
Signs, state specific wording, are required to be covered by the equine limited liability laws in the states that have them. That does not mean the BO's insurance will not still require the BO to have waivers, etc.



Cat said:


> There have been some issues come up at barns where someone will say that they have permission to ride X horse and really don't and it then leads to all sort of headaches when the owner of the horse finds out.


This is the reason I know some barns require a signed lease on file for someone else to ride a privately owned horse.




sixlets said:


> Cat: The rule is more like only people in lessons or working at the barn can ride horses other than their on, even with permission from the owner.


People have been known to lie about having permission. You (generic you) can say that you have permission to ride Dobbin but that does not mean Dobbin's owner knows that you are going to be riding Dobbin.




AlexS said:


> If I knew the BO was letting others ride my horse without my permission, I would move, not just that day, but that hour. I would be livid.


I agree.


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## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

One thing that came to mind (I am sure there is more going on in this case) as far as that particular rule goes, is if the owner of the horse is allowing the BO to use the horse in lessons in order to pay off some of their board, or get a reduced rate for their own lessons. I could completely see then, why the BO would not allow someone else to ride the horse that was not in lessons or paying, as they then do not have the option of using the horse as per the agreement. But that doesn't sound like the case here.


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

I've never heard of a rule like that. But common sense would be that you don't go and ride another's horse without permission. We've always told our BO who was allowed to ride our horses IF we weren't there. They have liabilty signs posted AND require waivers signed for ANY guest. Most of the time we are there when a guest is going to ride, but if we know that someone is experienced enough, they can ride without us being there. Maybe if the horse owner and you, together, were to talk to the BO beforehand, there wouldn't be any problem.

I would be leary of a BO or BM that would say one thing and do the opposite, either pertaining to riding or like the camping trip issue the OP had


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## arkangel (Apr 25, 2011)

hi im new


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

hrsrdr said:


> Your BO needs to get a liability SIGN, and post it where everyone can see it. I think that relieves you of having to do the waivers. Sounds like she is just one of the more paranoid type.


The sign does not cover this type of situation.

We have that rule too. It has to be in writing if the owner is not present while another boarder is handling the horse. It has nothing to do with being paranoid. It has to do with liability and accountability. Say you give your friend a verbal ok to ride your horse. Next week, you are on the outs for whatever reason. Suddenly the BO is one of those awful people who lets anyone ride any horse in the barn.


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## sixlets (May 1, 2009)

AlexS said:


> If I knew the BO was letting others ride my horse without my permission, I would move, not just that day, but that hour. I would be livid.


I wasn't happy, unfortunately the barn we're moving to doesn't have an opening until May 1st, so we're moving Jasper this Saturday.




apachiedragon said:


> One thing that came to mind (I am sure there is more going on in this case) as far as that particular rule goes, is if the owner of the horse is allowing the BO to use the horse in lessons in order to pay off some of their board, or get a reduced rate for their own lessons. I could completely see then, why the BO would not allow someone else to ride the horse that was not in lessons or paying, as they then do not have the option of using the horse as per the agreement. But that doesn't sound like the case here.


He was used in one lesson a week on Tuesday, but the BO didn't have permission to use him Mondays (and there aren't lessons monday, it's the BO's day off), when I would ride. I would, of course, never ride him when he could be used lessons because I know they need the money off board. 

Just wanted to clarify, in the state of Minnesota you can legally sign away your right to sue. So by signing wavers at the barn I have comletely given up my right to sue the BO for any safety issues. So, even if she is "paranoid" that's no excuse. I did talk to her again about it yesterday. She told me she has this rule "so other girls' feelings don't get hurt. They might think I'm getting special treatment if I'm allowed to ride a horse without doing the work for it." ??? I would agree if I was asking to ride one of HER horses, but I'm riding a horse that no one else has permission to ride anyways...



Alwaysbehind said:


> People have been known to lie about having permission. You (generic you) can say that you have permission to ride Dobbin but that does not mean Dobbin's owner knows that you are going to be riding Dobbin.


Totally agree, and to make sure that didn't happen I had the owner of the horse let the BO and BM know that I was allowed to ride the horse Mondays.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

When I boarded horses, if it wasn't yours you didn't touch it. Even if the owner gave someone permission, I didn't allow it unless the owner was here. If the horse were to get hurt I wanted the owner to see exactly how it happened. They had to be here for vet calls, farrier and deworming as well. Things can go wrong then also. It worked out well and everyone was happy.


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## sixlets (May 1, 2009)

Saddlebag said:


> When I boarded horses, if it wasn't yours you didn't touch it. Even if the owner gave someone permission, I didn't allow it unless the owner was here. If the horse were to get hurt I wanted the owner to see exactly how it happened. They had to be here for vet calls, farrier and deworming as well. Things can go wrong then also. It worked out well and everyone was happy.


 
Did you have them sign waivers? It just seems excessive to me. Maybe not if they boarders were informed when they came to you, I wasn't told until over a year into it. I want more control over who can and can not ride my horses.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

You can never totally sign away your right to sue.


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## EQ1 (Apr 8, 2011)

Not that this is the case in this particular situation, but just to give something to think about going forward. If you own a horse in my barn and you want someone besides staff to ride it, of course it must be in writing. But I have had circumstances where the person the owner wants to ride their horse is in no way qualified to ride the horse. Just out and out can't ride, or just does not have the skill set to handle a particular horse. I have had to put my foot down because it was a serious accident waiting to happen. So there are circumstances when things are not so cut and dry. Again, not that that is what is happening here. Just something to think about in general: that things are usually not black and white.


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## PoohLP (Jan 15, 2009)

I have heard of barns not allowing someone to pay an independent excercise rider to come ride their horses for them becuase the barn requires that all such services must come through the barn's own training program. But since no money is trading hands, it seems odd that the owner cannot allow whomever they want to ride their horse, so long as nothing illegal or dangerous is taking place. 

Most states have specific waiver language. Usually you have to post a sign and have a waiver that has language mandated by statute in order for it to be enforceable in a court of law. The language is not normally a blanket "you cannot sue," so much as it is a "cannot be held liable for injuries that occur as a result of the inherrent risks of equine activity." Injuries resulting from negligence or gross negligence are not usually covered by such language.


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## Azale1 (Jul 5, 2010)

I can see this in a way due to insurance reasons, but typically a signed liability waiver clears this and all is good. I think she is being a little too touchy, the owner of the horse has the final say as to who and who cannot ride thier horse. I would have my family come out all the time to ride my horse at my old trainers barn as long as I was present to supervise and they signed the waiver it was all good. I would say for your situation of exercising your friends horse for her she should have you sign a simple permision slip form stating that it is fine for you to ride this horse.


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## EQ1 (Apr 8, 2011)

*waiver's are worth what they are written on*

There is a general misconception prevalent in the horse industry – that a liability waiver will prevent lawsuits from being filed. Nothing could be further from the truth. 

Even if a waiver has been signed, if a barn owner or manager behaves in a negligent manner or was aware of an unsafe situation but allowed it to happen or did nothing to rectify it, and many other things, they can still be held liable...even with a waiver. Waivers do not eliminate the potential for being held liable. They minimize it a bit but in no way make a farm sue proof. 

Even if you as the farm owner have done everything right you can still be sued. And can spend a lot of time and money defending yourself in court.

Bottom line is it's their farm, it's their rules. When you have your farm, you can make your rules.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

I think the OP's BO just wants money. There is a barn near me that charges $5 any time someone other than the boarder rides the boarder's horse, even if the boarder is right there & the BO is not. They are supposed to mark the rides on a calendar! That rule is great for sending boarders my way.
I board horses & give lessons but if someone wants to bring a friend or family member out to ride their horse I don't care. Sign a waiver & have fun. It's their horse to do with as they please. I have very good, responsible boarders & luckily I don't need to keep a hawk's eye on them.
A boarding barn should be a place to have fun & relax, not worry about rules. Common sense is usually all that is needed.
I'd move too.


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