# Do you see a transformation?



## TimWhit91

He lost a lot of weight. I would ask for a critique when he is back to a healthy weight
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Aesthetic

Did you read it? Yes he has lost a lot of weight, I am aware. He's been on a new feed, separated, and relaxing for a few weeks. Thank you anyways

ADDED The owner also warned me he would drop weight from being moved. He doesn't eat/drink like he should I was told, for the first month or so. I honestly thought he may have had worms.. but I was warned


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## TimWhit91

Yes I read it. You are asking if there is a difference in muscle tone. He looks worse, not better. He is very skinny, lost the muscling in his neck, topline and hindquarters. He has no more happiness on his face like his previous pictures. 

I was trying to be nice in suggesting you wait for a critique.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Aesthetic

TimWhit91 said:


> Yes I read it. You are asking if there is a difference in muscle tone. He looks worse, not better. He is very skinny, lost the muscling in his neck, topline and hindquarters. He has no more happiness on his face like his previous pictures.
> 
> I was trying to be nice in suggesting you wait for a critique.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Really? I believe I know if my horse is happy or not. Yes he has lost weight, I added in what I was told. You have no room to say whether my horse is unhappy or not, thank you. I see him every day, i'm pretty sure I know if he is happy. 
That was actually fairly rude.


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## 3ringburner

I think he looks a little better! His first 2 pics he has a hay belly and the last 4 pics he looks a little slender but i think with the new feed switch he should start looking better! But he does look really small for a 4 year old, when i first saw the pics i honestly thought he was 2...... :3 my bad..... His butt gained some muscle and some other muscles are showing also! keep up the work and keep updating!!


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## Aesthetic

3ringburner said:


> I think he looks a little better! His first 2 pics he has a hay belly and the last 4 pics he looks a little slender but i think with the new feed switch he should start looking better! But he does look really small for a 4 year old, when i first saw the pics i honestly thought he was 2...... :3 my bad..... His butt gained some muscle and some other muscles are showing also! keep up the work and keep updating!!


Sad thing is he's 15.3 :lol: He's a tall dude! I currently have him on 2 scoops of Safe Choice Maintenance and 1 scoop of Safe Choice Senior. I know I know, a 4 year old on senior! My mare is fed the senior feed, and I asked a vet if it would harm him and she said go for it! He normally gets a scoop or so of alfalfa pellets, but he started getting the runs, and when I took him in the vet said take the alfalfa out of his diet and no issues! 
He's four and 15.3....He hopefully will not grow upwards anymore..


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## 3ringburner

lol he actually kind of reminded me of my 2 year old and hes 14.2-14.3 and im hoping he grows upwards  have you tried vegetable oil on top of his grain? Pic below is my 2yo


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## 40232

TimWhit91 said:


> He is very skinny, lost the muscling in his neck, topline and hindquarters. He has no more happiness on his face like his previous pictures.
> 
> I was trying to be nice in suggesting you wait for a critique.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree, unfortunately. My horse was the same way, he lost weight and muscling. I was in denial that he wasn't happy. This horse doesn't look happy, he looks very much "blah" compared to the first two pictures. As soon as my horse got put on the correct feed plan and started gaining, he became the happy, perked up horse he used to be.

I'm willing to bet that once he gets fed what he needs, he will look like a healthy, happy horse.

I agree with waiting for a critique.


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## Aesthetic

KylieHuitema said:


> I agree, unfortunately. My horse was the same way, he lost weight and muscling. I was in denial that he wasn't happy. This horse doesn't look happy, he looks very much "blah" compared to the first two pictures. As soon as my horse got put on the correct feed plan and started gaining, he became the happy, perked up horse he used to be.
> 
> I'm willing to bet that once he gets fed what he needs, he will look like a healthy, happy horse.
> 
> I agree with waiting for a critique.


I know he is thin, but I'm positive he is happy. His attitude and demeanor has not changed a bit since i've got him. He's always a happy, goofy, in your pocket and give me a treat boy.


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## Aesthetic

3ringburner said:


> lol he actually kind of reminded me of my 2 year old and hes 14.2-14.3 and im hoping he grows upwards  have you tried vegetable oil on top of his grain? Pic below is my 2yo


I've never heard of vegetable oil with grain! Affects?
Oh my gosh he's cute! I normally don't go for taller horses but this boy just happens to be one. Here's something funny, a close friend of mine also bought a 4 year old buckskin gelding, and within two months he went from 15.2 to 16.1!! Please don't happen to my gelding!!! :lol::lol:


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## 3ringburner

lol oh wow! thats a pretty big jump for 2 months!!! i wish mine would reach atleast 15.2! And thank you! also vegetable oil will put weight on your horse because of the amount of fat it has in it! When i get my boy over at my house (hopefully soon) i will be putting a little bit of Vegetable oil on it (for fat) and i will sprinkle garlic powder on it to help with flies!


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## Aesthetic

3ringburner said:


> lol oh wow! thats a pretty big jump for 2 months!!! i wish mine would reach atleast 15.2! And thank you! also vegetable oil will put weight on your horse because of the amount of fat it has in it! When i get my boy over at my house (hopefully soon) i will be putting a little bit of Vegetable oil on it (for fat) and i will sprinkle garlic powder on it to help with flies!


I use apple cider vinegar for flies, is Vegetable oil safe to out in their feed? If so I may start doin it!!


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## 40232

Aesthetic said:


> I use apple cider vinegar for flies, is Vegetable oil safe to out in their feed? If so I may start doin it!!


I personally use Canola oil, as it is better for them. I worked up to a cup of it over a week, per feeding.


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## Aesthetic

KylieHuitema said:


> I personally use Canola oil, as it is better for them. I worked up to a cup of it over a week, per feeding.


I'm going to ask my vet and find out which oil is best, he should be going in for a teeth checking, fecal exam, and ulcer test late next week. Hopefully while he's under medicine I can finally clean his sheath thoroughly!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stevenson

with any oil and if it is hot where you are, keep it in the house. It will go rancid. I use corn oil.
works fine for my old sr horse. the oil adds fat without making them high. 
you could try some soaked beet pulp also. nothing wrong with sr feed for any age of horse, its easy to digest . You could also increase the amount of hay ,forage he gets.


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## Aesthetic

stevenson said:


> with any oil and if it is hot where you are, keep it in the house. It will go rancid. I use corn oil.
> works fine for my old sr horse. the oil adds fat without making them high.
> you could try some soaked beet pulp also. nothing wrong with sr feed for any age of horse, its easy to digest . You could also increase the amount of hay ,forage he gets.


We are thinking about easing them into a round bale, there is one problem with that. My mare colics over ANYTHING. There's no way to ease into that amount of hay again without making her colic. She also is one of those horses that will become Obese off of hay.
Hagen needs to gain wait, yes. We are going to get some more feed tomorrow, there's already beet pulp in this feed I have.
I'll try canola oil, I live in Texas so yes it is extremely hot. One of my friends uses molasses and some other in home ingredients and her horses are FAT FAT FAT.


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## Aesthetic

I LITERALLY just had a friend who barrel races with me message me and tell me she has half a bag of beet pulp I could have. I'll definitely throw that in, probably to both horses feed. How much is necessary though?


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## Emma2003

Aesthetic said:


> Did you read it? Yes he has lost a lot of weight, I am aware. He's been on a new feed, separated, and relaxing for a few weeks. Thank you anyways[/QUOTE)
> 
> This forum has a lot of members with extremely varied experiences and we all interpret what we read and see in pics or on video in different ways. Therefore, if you submit something for critique, expect both positive and negative feedback. Accept both as most of them are meant as constructive and positive in that person's view.


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## Aesthetic

Emma2003 said:


> Aesthetic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you read it? Yes he has lost a lot of weight, I am aware. He's been on a new feed, separated, and relaxing for a few weeks. Thank you anyways[/QUOTE)
> 
> This forum has a lot of members with extremely varied experiences and we all interpret what we read and see in pics or on video in different ways. Therefore, if you submit something for critique, expect both positive and negative feedback. Accept both.
> 
> 
> 
> I accept feedback, but I will not have someone say my horse is unhappy when I no it's false. Thank you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...


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## Emma2003

You need to be less defensive if you are asking for a general consensus of people who are not physically there.


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## Aesthetic

Emma2003 said:


> You need to be less defensive if you are asking for a general consensus of people who are not physically there.


Im going to be defensive over some things, and that's exactly why. They aren't here and can't see him act in person, so they have no room to say he's not happy. Thank you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Emma2003

Aesthetic said:


> Im going to be defensive over some things, and that's exactly why. They aren't here and can't see him act in person, so they have no room to say he's not happy. Thank you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk here, but all the people viewing this post have to go by is their personal interpretation of the words and pics that you have provided. Perhaps you could say "Yup, she's lost some weight. It took her a while to adjust to her new environment but things are improving"


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## Aesthetic

Emma2003 said:


> I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk here, but all the people viewing this post have to go by is their personal interpretation of the words and pics that you have provided. Perhaps you could say "Yup, she's lost some weight. It took her a while to adjust to her new environment but things are improving"


I clearly say in the original post he has lost weight and I've switched his feed and separated him to help him gain weight haha. I know you're not trying to be a jerk, and like I said I'm open to critique but if someone is going to say my horse is unhappy, that's not critique. 
Yes he has lost weight, he is thin but he is not SKINNY. His tail head and spine aren't protruding disgustingly, he has always, even from the day I got him had pokey hips. 
That's why I questioned is Timwhit read my first post was because I state I know he's thin.


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## EnduranceLover6

Sorry Aesthetic, but I would consider him skinny in the second pictures you posted. He is scoring about a 3 on a body scale, and getting closer to a 2. I know you are doing what you can, and nobody should be judging your horses happiness. If you didn't care you wouldn't be here! So here are my suggestions:

1) FORAGE, FORAGE, FORAGE. Do whatever you can to get him on 24/7 hay...it will make the world of difference. There is absolutely no point in pumping him full of more grain, especially if he does have ulcers, which only increases stomach discomfort and contributes to weight loss. Keep his tummy happy with high fiber and high fat. Feed oils if you can but keep it to a minimum as it can give them diarrhea. 

2) Keep riding/work to a minimum until he's back up to speed. Burning much needed calories won't be helpful and muscle is much harder to build without some fat on them first. Stretches and proper body carriage exercises will do wonders for you guys too. He is very "upside down" in the way he stands. Teaching him to reach down, stretch his topline, and use himself BACK to FRONT. All of this can be done on the ground before even stepping foot in the saddle. 

3) Definitely test for ulcers, parasites, etc. I would pull blood and do fecals before you treat, that way your not wasting time/money on self-diagnostics. Pretty simple tests and you will feel a ton better knowing whats going on. 

Again, these are just my personal suggestions, so take them with a grain of salt. EVERYONE cares for their horses differently. Below are a few pictures of a gelding I bought at the age of 4 who literally drove me crazy trying to keep weight on. I did everything I could think of for him and the thing that finally worked was giving him a good quality round bale of grass/alfalfa to go to town with...results were unbelievable. I had him on hay 3-4 times a day before that, but the 24/7 access really made a difference. 

When he came...








After only a week of free-choice hay


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## Aesthetic

EnduranceLover6 said:


> Sorry Aesthetic, but I would consider him skinny in the second pictures you posted. He is scoring about a 3 on a body scale, and getting closer to a 2. I know you are doing what you can, and nobody should be judging your horses happiness. If you didn't care you wouldn't be here! So here are my suggestions:
> 
> 1) FORAGE, FORAGE, FORAGE. Do whatever you can to get him on 24/7 hay...it will make the world of difference. There is absolutely no point in pumping him full of more grain, especially if he does have ulcers, which only increases stomach discomfort and contributes to weight loss. Keep his tummy happy with high fiber and high fat. Feed oils if you can but keep it to a minimum as it can give them diarrhea.
> 
> 2) Keep riding/work to a minimum until he's back up to speed. Burning much needed calories won't be helpful and muscle is much harder to build without some fat on them first. Stretches and proper body carriage exercises will do wonders for you guys too. He is very "upside down" in the way he stands. Teaching him to reach down, stretch his topline, and use himself BACK to FRONT. All of this can be done on the ground before even stepping foot in the saddle.
> 
> 3) Definitely test for ulcers, parasites, etc. I would pull blood and do fecals before you treat, that way your not wasting time/money on self-diagnostics. Pretty simple tests and you will feel a ton better knowing whats going on.
> 
> Again, these are just my personal suggestions, so take them with a grain of salt. EVERYONE cares for their horses differently. Below are a few pictures of a gelding I bought at the age of 4 who literally drove me crazy trying to keep weight on. I did everything I could think of for him and the thing that finally worked was giving him a good quality round bale of grass/alfalfa to go to town with...results were unbelievable. I had him on hay 3-4 times a day before that, but the 24/7 access really made a difference.
> 
> When he came...
> View attachment 491666
> 
> 
> After only a week of free-choice hay
> View attachment 491674


He's going in HOPEFULLY next week for fecal, ulcers, and teeth. If I do 24/7 I'll be risking my mare quite a bit of tummy trouble, but we will see. We need a new hay ring first :/. 
Well I see him as "thin" to me skinny are your emancipated babes out there. 

I may be saying this because I'm taking care of another woman's horses and they're in far worse shape than Hagen...it's irrelevant but I think it just makes me feel Like Hagen is way better than what they are. 

I'm going to get beet pellets today, I'm also going to slowly add Canola oil into his feed. 

SPEAKING OF! Yesterday I actually lunged him for about 5-10 minutes to see if a homemade surscingle worked, and he have his nose right to it and gave zero fuss. Hopefully with a easy and collected trot for a few minutes a day his top line will come in. He doesn't look rounded at all, like he doesn't know how to carry himself. 

I don't have a problem collecting him under saddle, I just never really worked with it. I more or less focused on side passing/ loping easy circles without going all over the place, just his simple stuff. Working from rear to front never crossed my mind!! 

Any other suggestions on him? I'm going to look for a hay ring hopefully soon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EnduranceLover6

Aesthetic said:


> Well I see him as "thin" to me skinny are your emancipated babes out there.
> 
> I may be saying this because I'm taking care of another woman's horses and they're in far worse shape than Hagen...it's irrelevant but I think it just makes me feel Like Hagen is way better than what they are.
> 
> *There are many horses they are worse off, but being defensive about saying your horse is thin, skinny, whatever isn't solving his issues. The key is to remember than you aren't STARVING him, we all come across horses like this in our lifetime and nobody is blaming you for his appearance. My horse I posted is a similar score to you boy...he was skinny when I bought him and stayed that way for a very long time until I could figure out what worked for him. Admitting that he was underweight sucked, but its a true score on a professional body scale for horses. Just stay positive about your efforts! *
> 
> SPEAKING OF! Yesterday I actually lunged him for about 5-10 minutes to see if a homemade surscingle worked, and he have his nose right to it and gave zero fuss. Hopefully with a easy and collected trot for a few minutes a day his top line will come in. He doesn't look rounded at all, like he doesn't know how to carry himself.
> 
> I don't have a problem collecting him under saddle, I just never really worked with it. I more or less focused on side passing/ loping easy circles without going all over the place, just his simple stuff. Working from rear to front never crossed my mind!!
> 
> *Collection should be the last thing you worry about. When I talk about body carriage I simply mean that he has to learn to drive himself from behind...no fuss over his head or neck whatsoever. I would rather see him pushing off from behind with impulsion with his head up in the air than having his head tucked pretty with a hollow back and without tracking up. It is very hard to be able to feel and see the difference but with practice you'll get better at knowing when he is truly using himself correctly. Excellent video below *


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8cOq7YWXys


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## flytobecat

What kind of hay are you feeding? Did the vet say why he got the runs on the alfalfa?


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## flytobecat

Backing him up through obstacles and doing rollbacks on the fence will also help him build his top line and get him working on his back end.


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## Aesthetic

flytobecat said:


> Backing him up through obstacles and doing rollbacks on the fence will also help him build his top line and get him working on his back end.


He will learn roll backs eventually! Since he is long backed and in training to be a barrel horse I want him to use his rear properly so he doesn't hurt himself. As for the alfalfa thing, no idea but he isn't the first horse we've had the issue with. Alfalfa naturally makes horses have runs, just Hagen would constantly have them. He himself gets about 4-5 squares of hay Morning and night. Now that he is being separated he will be getting it all to himself 

Now backing...I could back him to canada..


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## Aesthetic

EnduranceLover6 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8cOq7YWXys


The thing I so is ask for a lower carriage of the head, nothing tucked or awkward. I'll take a look at the video and thanks!!


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## BarrelracingArabian

The thing is we can only go off what you give us, and unfortunately that goes from a decent weight alert bright eyed boy to a thin, dull loss of muscle boy. He doesn't appear to have the alert bright eye as the first picture. Now sure it may be different in person however YOU are the one who posted and asked for a crit on him so you get what you give.

With the better feed and hopefully free choice hay I think he'll look much better but I also agree with keeping your work to an absolute minimum (walking maybe short trot) until he gets back to a better weight. I don't think he is terribly skinny but yes he needs a good amount of weight befor you start trying to up his muscle or youll continue to struggle to get him up. 

good luck


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## flytobecat

I know a lot of folks who feed alfalfa and their horses don't have the runs. I've also seen horse with sensitivity to alfalfa, but the symptoms were more like colic.
Diet change in general can cause diarrhea initially, but then so can stress. But he should be getting enough with what you are feeding, so maybe ulcers. 
We feed rice bran and beet pulp for weight gain, but I would wait and see what the vet says. I would up his forage until then.


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## Aesthetic

flytobecat said:


> I know a lot of folks who feed alfalfa and their horses don't have the runs. I've also seen horse with sensitivity to alfalfa, but the symptoms were more like colic.
> Diet change in general can cause diarrhea initially, but then so can stress. But he should be getting enough with what you are feeding, so maybe ulcers.
> We feed rice bran and beet pulp for weight gain, but I would wait and see what the vet says. I would up his forage until then.


I had another horse who alfalfa have him the squirts, BAD. No idea. I just went and got a 40Lb bag of beet pulp and I'm going to use vegetable oil in his feed. A round bale is out of the question until September
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NRW

If you're adding vegetable oil to his feed for fat, you may consider trying Cool Calories 100. 
I have always had a lot of luck with it when feeding to horses that need to gain weight. And in my opinion it works way better than plain vegetable oil. I have used both on my gelding and saw better results from Cool Calories. Tractor Supply sells it for around 20-30$ for an 8 pound bag...typically lasts a long time though.
Before my discovery of Cool Calories, I used soaked beet pulp, Purina Healthy Edge and free choice hay for my mare...she was emaciated when I got her. Now though she's a super fatty that stays fat on air, so I don't know how she got in that condition before I got her. I did have good results with her on that combination though.
I prefer cool calories now though because you can add the calories with out having to crank up their feed intake and over feed them. Like I always felt I would do with the beet pulp.

I do think your gelding looks like he could use some weight though. Just a bit. But some people prefer the slim look vs the chunky hay belly look. I know a polo guy who keeps all of his polo horses very lean with just a ton of muscle. He feeds them only oats and some days of the week free choice hay...always turned out on pasture. Sometimes molasses licks. 

If you happen to want to use a muscle building supplement when you have got his weight up a little, I also use Su-Per Muscle Builder on my gelding...... He's a lanky, oddly built horse. Cool Calories and the Su-Per Muscle combined make him look great. He has really gained muscle since I have started feeding it to him. Just a thought, I don't know how muscular you're wanting him to get.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Aesthetic

NRW said:


> If you're adding vegetable oil to his feed for fat, you may consider trying Cool Calories 100.
> I have always had a lot of luck with it when feeding to horses that need to gain weight. And in my opinion it works way better than plain vegetable oil. I have used both on my gelding and saw better results from Cool Calories. Tractor Supply sells it for around 20-30$ for an 8 pound bag...typically lasts a long time though.
> Before my discovery of Cool Calories, I used soaked beet pulp, Purina Healthy Edge and free choice hay for my mare...she was emaciated when I got her. Now though she's a super fatty that stays fat on air, so I don't know how she got in that condition before I got her. I did have good results with her on that combination though.
> I prefer cool calories now though because you can add the calories with out having to crank up their feed intake and over feed them. Like I always felt I would do with the beet pulp.
> 
> I do think your gelding looks like he could use some weight though. Just a bit. But some people prefer the slim look vs the chunky hay belly look. I know a polo guy who keeps all of his polo horses very lean with just a ton of muscle. He feeds them only oats and some days of the week free choice hay...always turned out on pasture. Sometimes molasses licks.
> 
> If you happen to want to use a muscle building supplement when you have got his weight up a little, I also use Su-Per Muscle Builder on my gelding...... He's a lanky, oddly built horse. Cool Calories and the Su-Per Muscle combined make him look great. He has really gained muscle since I have started feeding it to him. Just a thought, I don't know how muscular you're wanting him to get.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you! I'm going to look around at everything. 

To me...I like thick horses. Though not every horse can get thick and built the way I like! Hagen may just be a talk and lean horse when this is all over with, I have no idea. 
To me, as long as they're healthy and at a healthy weight I don't care. I find thicker horses more attractive to me, but Hagen caught my eye and he wasn't a thick horse when I first got him. 
They got their first little taste of beet pulp tonight. I gave them maybe a quarter if a scoop each. 
Any advice on how much to add, when, and how much I should be feeding after they're introduced?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NRW

Do you mean advice on adding beet pulp? When I got my mare and I was feeding it to her I treated her as a starvation case and just started off with 1/2 of a scoop of healthy edge, then worked in 1/2 a scoop of beet pulp later a couple days later....she was getting quite a bit of it in the end till she was a healthy weight again. I think she would get 1 and a 1/2 scoops of already soaked beet pulp in the morning with 1 scoop of healthy edge, and a ton of hay...usually 4-5 flakes...but she would usually eat it all so it really wasn't free choice till I moved her from her paddock to the pasture. My friend fed her in the evening for me, I think they mostly just have her healthy edge at night with hay.

With the cool calories and and Su-per muscle, I think it has instructions on it for how to introduce it to their feed. With cool calories I think they only get like an ounce or two a day, and it's the same with the Su-per muscle, I give my gelding 2 ounces a day. But I think both you give them 1/2 an ounce once a day for a couple days then maybe go to 1/2 twice a day. Then 3/4 twice a day...and 1 ounce twice a day if that's how much you're wanting to feed. A little bit of cool calories goes alonggg way. I never have had to give mine more than 1 ounce once a day if they're just needing help keeping their weight up, like in the winter.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Aesthetic

NRW said:


> Do you mean advice on adding beet pulp? When I got my mare and I was feeding it to her I treated her as a starvation case and just started off with 1/2 of a scoop of healthy edge, then worked in 1/2 a scoop of beet pulp later a couple days later....she was getting quite a bit of it in the end till she was a healthy weight again. I think she would get 1 and a 1/2 scoops of already soaked beet pulp in the morning with 1 scoop of healthy edge, and a ton of hay...usually 4-5 flakes...but she would usually eat it all so it really wasn't free choice till I moved her from her paddock to the pasture. My friend fed her in the evening for me, I think they mostly just have her healthy edge at night with hay.
> 
> With the cool calories and and Su-per muscle, I think it has instructions on it for how to introduce it to their feed. With cool calories I think they only get like an ounce or two a day, and it's the same with the Su-per muscle, I give my gelding 2 ounces a day. But I think both you give them 1/2 an ounce once a day for a couple days then maybe go to 1/2 twice a day. Then 3/4 twice a day...and 1 ounce twice a day if that's how much you're wanting to feed. A little bit of cool calories goes alonggg way. I never have had to give mine more than 1 ounce once a day if they're just needing help keeping their weight up, like in the winter.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This morning I introduced beet pulp to their feed. Right now I just took a half scoop and split it between the two to avoid a upset tummy. 
In a day or two I'll do half a scoop to each and move up every few days until I'm at a scoop and a half! 

There's no promises on the Su-per brand, my parents honestly don't believe in many supplements. Also, my feed store owner recommended me to...something Ultimate. I don't remember the bran but it's $40 a bag and lasts a long time, several months apparently. My parents probably wouldn't get it because I can build muscle through riding and gain weight through "home" additives like vegetable oil and a bag of beet pulp that's $16 for 40lbs


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## NRW

I like the cool calories and Su-per muscle cause I haven't had any issues with my gelding getting hot off of it. I tried him on other fat supplements and he just goes crazy...super spooky, sets back, have to really work him down to do anything with him. 
I don't think beet pulp had that effect on my mare, but she ended up only being pasture sound due to her having severe navicular I wasn't aware of when I got her. But I honestly haven't used it since... My gelding was prone to colic last summer, he colicked 3-4 times within 2 months. While I was feeding healthy edge as well... 
So I have figured out his feeding and the cool calories worked in well since you have to feed so little and it makes such a big difference. 

I'm sure the beet pulp will work for you though, I have heard good stuff about it still.


Start to Finish Cool Calories 100®, 8 lb. - Tractor Supply Co.

SU-PER Muscle Builder liquid
^ this one is harder to find I have only found it in one tack&feed store an hour away from me lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Aesthetic

NRW said:


> I like the cool calories and Su-per muscle cause I haven't had any issues with my gelding getting hot off of it. I tried him on other fat supplements and he just goes crazy...super spooky, sets back, have to really work him down to do anything with him.
> I don't think beet pulp had that effect on my mare, but she ended up only being pasture sound due to her having severe navicular I wasn't aware of when I got her. But I honestly haven't used it since... My gelding was prone to colic last summer, he colicked 3-4 times within 2 months. While I was feeding healthy edge as well...
> So I have figured out his feeding and the cool calories worked in well since you have to feed so little and it makes such a big difference.
> 
> I'm sure the beet pulp will work for you though, I have heard good stuff about it still.
> 
> 
> Start to Finish Cool Calories 100®, 8 lb. - Tractor Supply Co.
> 
> SU-PER Muscle Builder liquid
> ^ this one is harder to find I have only found it in one tack&feed store an hour away from me lol.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I will talk to my parents about this, but there is no guarantee they'll do it and get it. They'll actually probably laugh in my face. They also so don't my horses as thin, but then again they aren't horse people.


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## NRW

Aesthetic said:


> I will talk to my parents about this, but there is no guarantee they'll do it and get it. They'll actually probably laugh in my face. They also so don't my horses as thin, but then again they aren't horse people.


Been there and done that, lol explaining supplements to my mom is difficult cause she says I'm not showing them why do I need supplements. She's use to when I did show cows and fed them supplements for shows. 
I find it easier to buy supplements with my own money then get her help with buying feed if I need it. 
She also doesn't understand that not every saddle/bit works for every horse lol. So yeah I understand where you're coming from, if you can get them to buy anything I recommend the cool calories first.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Aesthetic

NRW said:


> Been there and done that, lol explaining supplements to my mom is difficult cause she says I'm not showing them why do I need supplements. She's use to when I did show cows and fed them supplements for shows.
> I find it easier to buy supplements with my own money then get her help with buying feed if I need it.
> She also doesn't understand that not every saddle/bit works for every horse lol. So yeah I understand where you're coming from, if you can get them to buy anything I recommend the cool calories first.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sounds like my mom! I sure will!


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## Aesthetic

So I took Hagen into the round pen for about five minutes after watching that video.

I made a home made surcingle out of a lead rope and halter I DO NOT want to hear how it's unsafe, I know many trainers around me who used it. It's actually where I got it from. 

He brought his nose down and not in, and all I can say is watching his back was amazing. I could literally see him round his back.






He's such a good boy <3 Once again it lasted like five minutes, he wont be going much longer until his weight pulls up a little bit.


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## 3ringburner

Lookin good OP!


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## CandyCanes

that looks fantasticHow ever, one thing I noticed is he is not using his hind end correctly. He is not tracking up. If he tracks up his back will round even more! To do this use a lunge whip, or the end of the lunge line, and flick it towards his inside hind leg l. With the lunge whip, you can tap his hind leg if he really isn't cooperating. Just get him more active behind in order to make him rounder and build more topline


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## Aesthetic

I tried what you said, does this look any better? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IkD73JglBg&list=UUipc05KdIz_vkZvSyzZD50g


I also tried it with my mare...I don't think she's going to figure it out! She fights to hard I feel like she is going to hurt her nose! 

Here's another of the gelding today 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5-08xdu88E&list=UUipc05KdIz_vkZvSyzZD50g


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## CandyCanes

much better. Definitely tracking up much more now
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EnduranceLover6

He is still breaking at the poll. I think your method is fine, but the tension of your rope is too tight. Whether he is tracking up or not, the front is all wrong. You need to encourage him to reach down and OUT, not be sucked back with his nose behind the vertical. A horse can track up and still carry themselves incorrectly. Keep trying, you'll get there. 

This screams tension. Here he is bracing against the rope, pulling his head UP instead of reaching DOWN. Hind legs are trailing out behind moving up and down instead of reaching forward to push himself. Dip at the withers becomes more prominent. 








MUCHHHHH better. Back is lifting, hind legs reaching up, neck reaching DOWN and pushing base of neck upward (notice ewe in neck is filling up instead of becoming hollow). The only thing wrong with this picture is the rope that is restricting his head...when you watch the video, notice he is bobbing hes nose forward and back...that is him catching himself on that rope...he wants to reach down and OUT but can't because its too tight. Less tension on that rope will help...only adjust the rope tight enough to catch his head if he raises it high...let him figure it out and he will reach down on his own...I promise :wink:


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## Yogiwick

I think the point is why would you want a critique of your horse with the condition he is in? He looks much worse than before and muscle tone and "what to work on" should be the least of your concerns. Any before after thread or "do you see a transformation" definitely has the expectation of a POSITIVE change. If your horse looks worse why post asking how he looks? If you want us to critique a change wait until you have a POSITIVE change..

If you just want a conformation critique post the best pictures you have. The first two will do just fine.


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## Aesthetic

Yogiwick said:


> I think the point is why would you want a critique of your horse with the condition he is in? He looks much worse than before and muscle tone and "what to work on" should be the least of your concerns. Any before after thread or "do you see a transformation" definitely has the expectation of a POSITIVE change. If your horse looks worse why post asking how he looks? If you want us to critique a change wait until you have a POSITIVE change..
> 
> If you just want a conformation critique post the best pictures you have. The first two will do just fine.


I think we've gotten past this point already.


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## Aesthetic

EnduranceLover6 said:


> He is still breaking at the poll. I think your method is fine, but the tension of your rope is too tight. Whether he is tracking up or not, the front is all wrong. You need to encourage him to reach down and OUT, not be sucked back with his nose behind the vertical. A horse can track up and still carry themselves incorrectly. Keep trying, you'll get there.
> 
> This screams tension. Here he is bracing against the rope, pulling his head UP instead of reaching DOWN. Hind legs are trailing out behind moving up and down instead of reaching forward to push himself. Dip at the withers becomes more prominent.
> View attachment 493258
> 
> 
> MUCHHHHH better. Back is lifting, hind legs reaching up, neck reaching DOWN and pushing base of neck upward (notice ewe in neck is filling up instead of becoming hollow). The only thing wrong with this picture is the rope that is restricting his head...when you watch the video, notice he is bobbing hes nose forward and back...that is him catching himself on that rope...he wants to reach down and OUT but can't because its too tight. Less tension on that rope will help...only adjust the rope tight enough to catch his head if he raises it high...let him figure it out and he will reach down on his own...I promise :wink:
> View attachment 493266


I'm going to put a surscingle on him today and long make shift side reins to see if he will search for contact. This whole jumbo of collection is new to me, so we are learning together


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## clairesiggy

Yes, there is a change in muscle tone. However, he needs to gain weight. He looks as if he lost weight between when you got him and now. He is a very handsome boy and would be more handsome and a lot healthier if he were at a healthy weight.


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## stevenson

Are you trying for the old WP peanut roller look ? he needs more weight, and out of that set up


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## Aesthetic

stevenson said:


> Are you trying for the old WP peanut roller look ? he needs more weight, and out of that set up


I don't understand that comment, but obviously he needs weight.


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## stevenson

nose to the ground , very low headset. was common with WP horses..


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## Kayty

Regarding muscle gain;
Look at a human bodybuilder. When they want to increase muscle bulk, they add calories and as such their body fat increases too. They only shred body far before a competition, because by shredding to lose fat, they also lose some muscle. It is how the body works. Fat and muscle go hand in hand. 

A horse is the same. A skinny horse cannot, read, cannot, gain muscle bulk when it is not getting enough calories to simply gain body fat. You MUST feed the horse up to a healthy weight prior to increasing work load to increase muscle. And when the work increases, so must the feed. Otherwise you are just burning fat. 

In regards to the contraception you have put on this horse. Please take it off. You have strapped the horse's head down. This is SO counter productive. Not to mention I was cringing throughout your video as you did not have him on a line - if he decided to lose his head, there is NOTHING you could have done to prevent him from flipping over backwards as there is no release on his head. Or putting a leg through those ropes. Either way, broken back/neck/leg or just mentally wrecked horse.
Just don't do it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## megs93

The second lot of pics are a bit further away so forgive me if I'm wrong but looks like he's picked up some muscle tone on his shoulders, which is great. For some reason I always look at the shoulder muscles first. Once he's back to his normal weight I'm sure you'll see more muscle transformation. I'm not sure what you do with him, but he looks like he could be a good jumper so it would be good to focus on his rear end


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## Britt

I haven't read the othr replies, but I'll give what I think...

Firstly, he looks depressed and unhappy in the second set of pictures, whereas he looked hapy and alert in the first set. He also looks much worse, IMO in the second set of pictures. His weight is too low (I'd recommend putting him of Cool Calories fat supplement). 

Secondly, you stated that he got the runs with the Alfalfa. That typically means you put him on too much before his body was used to it. I've fed Alfalfa to my horses for years and have never had one of the get the runs from it, but I also introduce it slowly, over the course of several weeks. I'd personally put him back on alfalfa, but do it very slowly. 

Thirdly, I'd deworm him GOOD with something like Zimecterin Gold. 

fourthly, he has lost a lot of muscle tone, especially in his rear. I'd work ONLY on lunging him, hand-trotting uphills, etc... until you get his weight back. At the weight he's at, I wouldn't ride him, if he were my horse.


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## nitapitalou

You have said that you feed him 2 scoops of Safechoice original and a scoop of Safechoice Senior. First, great feed choice! I feed both; don't worry about it being a "Senior" feed, that is just the horse age group that it is design for, but some of the great things that make it great for the old guys, also makes it wonderful for the younger ones as well. It is designed to be a complete feed, meaning an old horse with no teeth could swallow it whole and be able to get what they need nutritionally from it. 

However, my question is, how much are you feeding? Scoops vary in size. I recommend getting a scale and weighing your scoops empty, then again with the amount of feed in it. Do a little math and viola, you have the actual amount you are feeding. It is very important to truly know what you are feeding. 

Be careful adding in too much oils too fast. Oils can give him the squirts.

Also, try not to be so defensive, you have made it very clear that you are doing everything you can for this guy. Its okay that he lost weight when he moved, horses do that. TimWhit91 said that he thought your horse looked unhappy in his first reply. But Hagen did _look_ unhappy in those second pics, however, it could have just been the moment, angle ect....Just because he looked unhappy doesn't mean he is unhappy.

People are going to express all kinds of opinions, you don't have to agree with them! The good ones or the bad, but take it all with a grain of salt and know that a lot of the people on here have years and years of experience. Most are just trying to help and express their thoughts. 

You are doing great by Hagen, just keep going and listen to what people have to say, then form your own opinion on what is right for you.


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## Starcailer

I feed my semi-hard keeper (old TB) 2.5lbs Dynasty Senior from Kent feeds, with 2lbs beat pulp, his supplements and 1 cup of canola oil, grass hay 3x a day. Not only has he put on weight, but his coat is EXTREMELY shiny.

Also, I did think he looked unhappy in the second set, but it might have been the angle because he looked quite happy and even a little mischievous in a picture you posted later.  He's fine, just needs some lbs. I totally get that, and I know how annoying/hard it is to deal with people's opinion of your care based on if your horse can pack on the pounds or not. He'll turn around. Just keep throwing food at him.


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## Aesthetic

Hagen is still getting his two scoops of senior and one scoop of maintenance. We will start round bales soon! 
As for scoops, I'll try and weigh it. I don't give him beet pulp anymore, he doesn't like it! He throws it out if his bucket! My mare as gained a good amount of weight as we enjoys her beet pulp. 
They're getting half a cup of vegetable oil right now. I'll measure it all out and so forth tonight. He doesn't seem to be gaining to me so I'm making a vet appointment to see why not. Sorry guys I don't have a lot of time to read and respond. 
School has picked up heavily, so has my responsibilities


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## Yogiwick

Appreciate the update! Let us know how things go with the vet.


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## Aesthetic

I got some pictures of the two today, my mare and Hagen. I'll need to get on the computer to upload them. 
Hagen seems to have gained a tad, but not much. Paco has gained a bit but her top line is still bad. Any suggestions there? She's a little ribby at the top that leads into her top line but she's got a big belly, chest, and rear end.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yogiwick

I'll wait for pics for any suggestion


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## Aesthetic

Here is Hagen and Paco. Excuse Hagen's awkward leg stretching and pawing....I'm not to sure why he does that when he eats...
They're still on their journey to gain weight, my mare showing the most improvement though.

Does hagen look like he's gained any at all..? I don't think he has but I'll let you people who don't see him daily judge that!


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## NRW

Aesthetic said:


> Here is Hagen and Paco. Excuse Hagen's awkward leg stretching and pawing....I'm not to sure why he does that when he eats...
> They're still on their journey to gain weight, my mare showing the most improvement though.
> 
> Does hagen look like he's gained any at all..? I don't think he has but I'll let you people who don't see him daily judge that!



My gelding does that as well, they're just excited to be eating.


Both of these horses look thin to be honest, you can visibly see their ribs and their "poor lines".
I saw you said you're feeding vegetable oil....have you been able to try cool calories?
I have tried vegetable oil and honestly never saw any great results. Cool calories definitely has been a life saver for me when I need a horse to gain some weight...

Or try feeding them more, maybe alfalfa of some form. Or just more feed in general...maybe a different brand or higher fat content.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Aesthetic

NRW said:


> My gelding does that as well, they're just excited to be eating.
> 
> 
> Both of these horses look thin to be honest, you can visibly see their ribs and their "poor lines".
> I saw you said you're feeding vegetable oil....have you been able to try cool calories?
> I have tried vegetable oil and honestly never saw any great results. Cool calories definitely has been a life saver for me when I need a horse to gain some weight...
> 
> Or try feeding them more, maybe alfalfa of some form. Or just more feed in general...maybe a different brand or higher fat content.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They're being fed this-
Paco- two scoops safe choice senior feed, two scoops of wet beet pulp, 1 cup of vegetable oil, and pretty much the amount of hay I can carry to her..Which happens to be quite a bit.. Thank goodness a round bale is coming soon.

Hagen- Two scoops of safe choice maintenance, once scoop of safe choice senior, I stopped feeding him beet pulp because all he did was toss it out of his bucket..I need something new there. He also gets one cup of vegetable oil and then hay. Between the two we are feeding about a bale of hay a day. A round bale will come soon like I mentioned above.

Paco has ALWAYS had problems with her top line, and since she had a foal a year ago i'm guessing it's what helped drag her top line back to being terrible.
She also has never had the top of her ribs completely covered, even a few years ago when the vet told me she was on the verge of being obese, her ribs were still showing. Now her booty is disappointing to me because being the barrel horse she is, it has never been this small..

As for Hagen, I know NOTHING about him accept I'm feeling like he is an extremely hard keeper..


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## NRW

Do you not have grass in your turn out or pastures? That's probably why they look thin. My horses use to be able to eat 4-5 flakes each over night when I would stall them. Which was almost half a bale. And I had a little grass in their old pasture. Now they're in a big pasture with a lot of grass with no hay and less feed and they're all fat. Grass can change a lot.

They seem like they should be gaining weight or keeping nice weight from the amount of feed they're getting, but if there's no grass then that will definitely make an impact on their weight loss/gain. 
Could you try adding alfalfa? Soaked cubes or just the flakes. I think the flakes are easier. It would probably help them both to get a flake or two a day. I'm not really a fan of alfalfa but if you aren't able to find the cool calories, and Hagen won't eat beet pulp I would try alfalfa...I have yet to see a horse not like alfalfa.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yogiwick

Are they only being fed 1x/day?

A bale of day PER HORSE is what I would expect.

Give them enough hay that they are _just_ finishing it when you give them more (check them 2 or 3x/day).

Make sure it's good quality.

Same amount of grain 2x/day if you aren't already. I would personally make a few more changes but unless I am mistaken and you are feeding twice a day I would definitely start there.

Hagen does look somewhat better overall, but not weight wise.

Mare is thin. She does appear to have a poor topline but her weight is a far bigger issue.

I would work the mare lightly and try and build up her topline.

Hagen I would work _very_ lightly and only as a form of exercise/stimulation (walk 20 mins a couple times a week).

Again, I feel the focus is more on the topline and muscle. Look up Henneke body condition, it really helps explain the overall picture as well as breaking it down into little steps.


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## Aesthetic

NRW said:


> Do you not have grass in your turn out or pastures? That's probably why they look thin. My horses use to be able to eat 4-5 flakes each over night when I would stall them. Which was almost half a bale. And I had a little grass in their old pasture. Now they're in a big pasture with a lot of grass with no hay and less feed and they're all fat. Grass can change a lot.
> 
> They seem like they should be gaining weight or keeping nice weight from the amount of feed they're getting, but if there's no grass then that will definitely make an impact on their weight loss/gain.
> Could you try adding alfalfa? Soaked cubes or just the flakes. I think the flakes are easier. It would probably help them both to get a flake or two a day. I'm not really a fan of alfalfa but if you aren't able to find the cool calories, and Hagen won't eat beet pulp I would try alfalfa...I have yet to see a horse not like alfalfa.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We used to do alfalfa but prices have been high and it gave the gelding very bad runs. 
Grass, no. It's been really dry this past summer. We normally section of pastures to let one grow while the other is being grazed but we've removed the fence in the middle. We are currently keeping them away from the rest of the pasture since pokeweed has gotten very bad in our area. We are pulling up tree by tree of poke weed. 
I'll try more alfalfa with Hagen, even easing him into it he would get the runs bad enough he would be constantly dehydrated. 
We have never had good grass on the property unless we had a watering system, which we do not. Too much dust and bad droughts these past few years :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ClassicRascal

New to this form and specifically this thread... I tried to skim through most of the posts. At this point, it looks like you're doing the best you can with your situation. Like others are saying, they definitely need more hay of some sort. Grain provides more energy than it does weight. The hay will fill them out. I look forward to seeing pictures a few weeks after your round bale arrives. 
I personally would feed free-choice hay and back off the feed as needed.
Best of luck!


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## Redhead

My mare did well with black oil sunflower seeds and rice bran added to her feed as well as the other things you're feeding, it might be worth a try. As my mare got older it got harder to keep weight on her. I spoke to an equine nutritionist and he recommended molasses and 2 cups of oil added to her two grain feeds per day, one cup per meal. She's done very well on it and always had a lovely shine to her as well.


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## Yogiwick

Be careful giving a lot of molasses regularly.


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## Aesthetic

Hagen seems to be putting weight on slowly but surely. His ribs aren't showing as much and he seems to be gaining on his top line. Here are some photos, He's been goofing off like crazy in the pasture this morning. I threw some hay and alfalfa to get him to sit still :lol::lol: He's also only been rode once in the past month, and with my mare out I need to slowly start working him.

We are going to try Rice Bran with him, since flax seed is so expensive out here


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## Saddlebag

At this time of year there are some weeds at a certain stage that horses love. A side effect is their manure turns into cow flops. But, those weeds are very good for them.


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## stevenson

if weeds are giving your horse cow flops , then it is not so good.


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## Aesthetic

I haven't noticed any problems with bowel movement, they seem absolutely normal. We don't have any weeds in out pasture, it was a harsh summer so nothing grew. We have been in a pretty bad drought.


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## Yogiwick

I'd say he's fine for light work and playing around.

Still quite a ways to go (he looks like my Arab, who is skinny too! I do like his build though haha) but much better than he was. Now he looks thin instead of "OMG look at that horse!"

That hay looks nice, give him plenty!

I feel his color has come out too, he looks better overall. Very handsome


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## Aesthetic

What I find interesting is he isn't as bad in person! 
He's actually got some meat on his top line, his neck has gotten a little thick and starting to get bigger. His rear end needs work though  he loves his hay, and we are givin em alfalfa as well but at $20 + a bale it's getting hard to keep giving em alfalfa. 
But he won't be getting a lot of work, we are starting with a trainer and since my mare is out until further notice, I need to work on him. He hasn't been messed with much in the past month.


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## Aesthetic

Hagen is growing up and out! He's starting to fill out and look good and he's acting like a colt! He recently started work and some long trotting and he is a cranky out of shape boy!


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## MouseZ

Aesthetic said:


> Hagen is growing up and out! He's starting to fill out and look good and he's acting like a colt! He recently started work and some long trotting and he is a cranky out of shape boy!


Can't wait for update pics  

I'm on the opposite end of the weight challenge, with a fat, fat, FAT easy keeper. Separate and totally different challenges from yours but challenges none the less. Solidarity sister over here!


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## Aesthetic

I thought I attached pics but the new mobile set up is killing me!! As soon as I get on a computer I will post them!! he's getting so coltish and moody it's crazy!! He's starting to feel a little good, chilly weather is starting!!


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## GreenBackJack

Maybe I missed the post but, did you ever get Hagan checked for ulcers? How about Paco? (hope I got her name correct)


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## GreenBackJack

This is why I am asking about the ulcers. This is a stress line. It is often seen when a horse has chronic ulcers which is also a major cause of failure to thrive and a dull look in the eye. Ulcers can also cause a horse to paw when it eats. Coat color and condition are other indicators but pictures are very deceiving on those counts. Anyway, those are the things that immediately catch my attention here. 

*crud, the picture didn't copy over, just the web address. Anyway, it's a horizontal line on the upper part of the shoulder. Both Paco and Hagan have them and it is clearly seen in the pictures you posted.


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## Aesthetic

Very interesting! I never knew that! My mare has had a line like that on her shoulder for YEARS but we would have never suspected ulcers from her! 

They'll be getting checked for ulcers probably when they go in for their shots and so on. 

Paco is having some serious stifle problems, so I'm afraid we are just retiring her to a broodmare if the vet says she's sound. (My colt from her is going to be sold, I never wanted to sell him but my parents brought up a few good points about him that have made me make a decision) 
She won't be bred for a few years though, maybe two. 

Hagen has gained a lovely amount of weight, I got comments last Saturday about how they said he looks like he's getting thick and maybe a little bit of a chunky hay belly. His top line is forming and his neck is filling out. I took him out for a gallop yesterday, I've never really galloped him and wow that boy flew down that track. I am going to try and add pictures from my phone, hopefully it will work.


----------



## Aesthetic

In the last photo he is standing weird, I also was concerned with his back being out of alignment but my Chiro said he is fine Ã°ÂŸÂ˜ÂŠ


----------



## MouseZ

Aesthetic said:


> In the last photo he is standing weird, I also was concerned with his back being out of alignment but my Chiro said he is fine Ã°ÂŸÂ˜ÂŠ


Definitely looking more filled out, I'm no expert but I definitely see improvement, he looks like a lovely boy.


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## Aesthetic

MouseZ said:


> Aesthetic said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the last photo he is standing weird, I also was concerned with his back being out of alignment but my Chiro said he is fine Ã°ÂŸÂ˜ÂŠ
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely looking more filled out, I'm no expert but I definitely see improvement, he looks like a lovely boy.
Click to expand...

Thank you! It's definitely not drastic, but I know I've had to drop my girth down a hole!!Ã°ÂŸÂ˜Â‚


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## livelyblueyes

I just wanted to say that in lew of Alfalfa bales you can also use alfalfa pellets/ I highly suggest soaking them the same as you would beet pulp prior to feeding though. Timothy pellets are also a good replacement if your horse is too sensitive to the alfalfa. 
I am going through a similar battle currently with my older mare. Some horses gain weight from the bottom up and the last place you will see start to fill out will be along the spine and hips.


----------



## Aesthetic

livelyblueyes said:


> I just wanted to say that in lew of Alfalfa bales you can also use alfalfa pellets/ I highly suggest soaking them the same as you would beet pulp prior to feeding though. Timothy pellets are also a good replacement if your horse is too sensitive to the alfalfa.
> I am going through a similar battle currently with my older mare. Some horses gain weight from the bottom up and the last place you will see start to fill out will be along the spine and hips.


We were feeding alfalfa for a little bit but my parents went and got a few round bales instead. They don't want to keep spending $10-$12 a square bale of alfalfa that three horses will eat from. It goes too fast


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## livelyblueyes

The reason I suggested the pellets is because you can limit that to a little extra for just the one horse when you feed. That way if he does not get enough vitamin content out of his regular hay he is getting it from that. He will still need the regular style of hay but with this it gives him that little extra boost. Add maybe a half a scoop of dry to a whole scoop of water. Let it soak out and absorb all the water. Then add it in with the rest of his feed. Doesn't sound like much but can be a nice difference without the expense of feeding alfalfa/timothy to the other horses. As if they are eating separately he will be the only one ingesting it. One bag will last a fair bit in that manner. Also easier to store. I have no idea what a 40-50lb bag would run in your area but I believe here it is about 14-15 bucks usually. As with any feed change though start slowly. It's not meant to be his complete hay amount. With mine it is the majority of hers as she has no back teeth.

In regards to your mare I do not think she is underweight. I think she just has high withers. Horses are not meant to be rolling in fat and imo ( and yes it is just mine) her weight is perfectly fine.


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## Aesthetic

livelyblueyes said:


> The reason I suggested the pellets is because you can limit that to a little extra for just the one horse when you feed. That way if he does not get enough vitamin content out of his regular hay he is getting it from that. He will still need the regular style of hay but with this it gives him that little extra boost. Add maybe a half a scoop of dry to a whole scoop of water. Let it soak out and absorb all the water. Then add it in with the rest of his feed. Doesn't sound like much but can be a nice difference without the expense of feeding alfalfa/timothy to the other horses. As if they are eating separately he will be the only one ingesting it. One bag will last a fair bit in that manner. Also easier to store. I have no idea what a 40-50lb bag would run in your area but I believe here it is about 14-15 bucks usually. As with any feed change though start slowly. It's not meant to be his complete hay amount. With mine it is the majority of hers as she has no back teeth.
> 
> In regards to your mare I do not think she is underweight. I think she just has high withers. Horses are not meant to be rolling in fat and imo ( and yes it is just mine) her weight is perfectly fine.


Yeah that mare has actually gotten a little fatter. I recently focused on my colt, I brought him back from the people who were caring for him while he was being weaned..he dropped like 200 pounds. 
I can try those alfalfa pellets though!!!


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## stevenson

he looks better. how is the mare ? or did i miss an updated photo? I have a paint that gets the runs from straight alfalfa. Did you just set out the round bales ? If they can eat off the round bales


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## Aesthetic

stevenson said:


> he looks better. how is the mare ? or did i miss an updated photo? I have a paint that gets the runs from straight alfalfa. Did you just set out the round bales ? If they can eat off the round bales


Mate is big and plump, she's out for a while. We have been having stifle issues. 

She's definitely set on her weight! Here's a photo before I quit riding her. She likes to work herself up...she always sweats like a pig


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## Aesthetic

Here are some photos from today! Yes he has been rubbing his tail off in the trailer  anyways! I've been working him on the track!! Is he looking better?


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## Yogiwick

You could wrap his tail.

Loking good!


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## Aesthetic

Yogiwick said:


> You could wrap his tail.
> 
> Loking good!


I tried vet wrapping itt but it either rolls down or leaves a nasty residue on his tail:/ im thinking about buying a lovely tail wrap they sell just for this purpose. Id have to order it online. I need to find it again


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## Yogiwick

Professionals Choice Tail Wrap Professional - Horse.com

Something like this is what I was thinking off.


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## Aesthetic

Yogiwick said:


> Professionals Choice Tail Wrap Professional - Horse.com
> 
> Something like this is what I was thinking off.


Ah thank you!!


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## EnduranceLover6

I haven't checked this thread in a while but just wanted to say your boy is looking MUCH better! Keep up the good work!!


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## Aesthetic

EnduranceLover6 said:


> I haven't checked this thread in a while but just wanted to say your boy is looking MUCH better! Keep up the good work!!


Thank you so much


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## GreenBackJack

Great to see the updates! Thank you for keeping us all in the loop. They're looking much, much better. Good going!


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