# Hmm, Odd Facial Marking (possible mutation?)



## Pyrros (Feb 10, 2012)

So, this little guy has been bugging me for some time now. Now, firstly:

This is not my horse. He is kept in the same pasture as my colt though.
I've known this horse since he was born, and have been tracking this marking since then.

These pictures were taken today - camera's date is off -, and this is him pictured with my own colt, Midas.










As you can see, he clearly appears to be a bay tobiano with splash and sabino, just like my colt Midas, who is seen next to him. The colt in question is on the left, and the marking that is odd is that roan-y area on his cheek. It almost appears as if he is greying out. 

Now, when he was born in the place of that marking were two GOLD colored smudges. By gold I mean palomino-gold. The nearly solid white part of that marking is where the first gold smudge was. The marking area then over time turned silvery, then the white-grey, and has spread. The colt is now nearing a year old.

The colt's dam is a Seal Brown Tobiano (with sabino.). More confusion comes in about his sire. The mare was bred -on the same cycle- by two different stallions. (again, not my mare, I had no say on her being bred or anything of the like. xD) 

Stallion 1 bred her first, he was a black based grey arabian. Stallion 2 bred her at the end of her heat cycle and was a bay tobiano.

If I do so recall, a brown horse cannot produce a bay unless bred to a bay, correct? He doesn't really seem /grey/ either to me though. Which leads me to believe his sire was the bay. That still leaves the question about his marking though, could it be a mutation of some sort? I just haven't a clue what might be doing it and am extremely curious to hear other people's thoughts on the strange marking.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Subbing. I have a couple theories but I would love to hear what the experts have to say before I make myself sound stupid, lol


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

I would be interested to see a few pics of his odd marking over time. At the moment, in that picture, it just looks like a bit of sabino that is on his cheek.

As far as a brown mare producing a bay foal - he is a brown too lol. Look at that lovely light muzzle there  She sure can produce a brown foal. Think about it this way - while brown is supposedly recessive to true bay, it is still dominant over non-agouti, which would be black. So even if the foal only has one brown gene, it would still express if there was no other agouti gene to tell it not to.


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## Hidalgo13 (Dec 24, 2010)

curious so subbing


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Subbing, I am curious as well...

I have seen cows that have had similar markings....black Angus cows that looked like someone threw bleach on, came off the same ranch. Never seen it anywhere else...was guessing some genetic issue.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

You mean that white spot by his eye is a mutation? I don't get this color thing at all.


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

Our foal was born brown......and had a dark spot on the side of her rump....every season.......it got white hairs ......it is now completely white.

Here are some pics.
Foal









14 months old










2.5 years old










I did some inquirying with a genetic specialist and told he had never seen anything like it and thought it was a possible birth mark.

Super Nova


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## sommsama09 (Oct 28, 2010)

Subbing


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

I'm curious also, I have a mare with a similar mark under her eye.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Super Nova said:


> Our foal was born brown......and had a dark spot on the side of her rump....every season.......it got white hairs ......it is now completely white.
> 
> Here are some pics.
> Foal
> ...


THAT! IS! AWESOME! LoL. :shock:


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## Pyrros (Feb 10, 2012)

I'll dig up some older pics of the marking now. :3 

On the brown thing, I thought he _might_ be brown but I always just called him a bay. *tumbles off to find more pictures*


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## Pyrros (Feb 10, 2012)

I think this one was the day he was born or a few days after, this doesn't show it real well but: 









You can see the original smudges there and they were GOLD, as gold-yellow as my palomino mare is. 

This picture shows the gold-ness of them better, I believe this picture was taken at about 1month old, maybe 2 months. It also shows his typical coloring, which is what makes me think he's bay.











And then a month later, the gold smudges had started to lighten and spread/roan out away from the original marks.










This was a few months after the last picture:










End of that same month: (you can still see some of the gold coloring under the white-silver color)









And then this one was from earlier this month.










I figured there's always the chance it's just some odd bit of sabino too, but I'm hoping it might be something more interesting at the same time. xD


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## MangoRoX87 (Oct 19, 2009)

This might be completely off the wall and impossible....
buttttt...
Imagine a grey with a bloody shoulder, ya know where part doesn't grey out, but with this guy, it's pretty much his entire body...random thought. I don't know what colors his parents are (sorry if you posted them), but just a thought!


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## TheRoundPen (Mar 15, 2012)

Subbing.. I want to see what people say.


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