# How to size my western horse for an english saddle?



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

A 16" Western saddle is about equal to an 18" english. But if you are of an average size, you may be more comfortable in a 17 or 17.5. It depends on your weight and height, especially your height.

I think Semi Qh bars would be a medium tree. Isnt a semi qh bars sort of an average width? or is that on the narrow side.?

All I can say about getting an English saddle is to steer clear of the "beginners packages". Usually the saddles are of such poor quality that they will be useless in no time. Better to look for one second hand from a good maker.

There are so many. Like Crosby , Collegieate, Stubben and others.
Good luck and hopefully you will get more consise advice from English riders.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

It's a pain to fit english saddle. That's all I gonna say!  

But seriously, it's harder to fit english than western. It very much depends on horse's confo, back, shoulders. Also what is "medium" tree in one brand, is "medium-wide" or (worse) "wide" in another brand. The saddle can be V-shaped or U-shaped, etc. I always recommend to read fitting guide (which is sticky in this section) and Saddle Fitting | Trumbull Mountain Tack Shop


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## Tasia (Aug 17, 2009)

tinyliny said:


> A 16" Western saddle is about equal to an 18" english. But if you are of an average size, you may be more comfortable in a 17 or 17.5. It depends on your weight and height, especially your height.
> 
> I think Semi Qh bars would be a medium tree. Isnt a semi qh bars sort of an average width? or is that on the narrow side.?
> 
> ...


Semi is average, standard in narrow, full is wider and wide is 7in gullet or bigger. I think I got that right.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Your best bet is to have a saddle fitter come out with a bunch of saddles and see which fits best.


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## Lippylulu (Dec 1, 2010)

*Not so hard*

I don't think its so hard to fit an English saddle. They are smaller and lighter and for the average horse the fit is pretty easy. Everyone at my daughter's barn uses an English pad with a fleece half pad over it. The extra padding helps to adjust any minor fit problems. My daughter is 14 and 5'2. She wears a 16 in Western and 16.5 in English. Her first english saddle was bought on consignment in perfect condition ($325 for a 16.5 inch seat Carlye close contact). It fit a 16'2 H thoroughbred with fairly high withers and 15'2 quarterhorse. It wasn't the best saddle as she progressed so I just bought a used Stubben Edelweiss which is a jumping saddle. It fits the quarterhorse just fine.

The fit on the horse is important but the people I know don't have many problems fitting saddles to their horses until they becoem very advanced and have very specific needs. An English All-Purpose saddle with a medium tree will probably suit you fine.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Lippylulu said:


> I don't think its so hard to fit an English saddle.


I had no issues to buy a western saddle for my horses (it's standard Alamo saddle). However it took me to use (very good and very known in area) saddle fitter and 8(!) english saddles to try, and only 1 out of those 8 was a good fit for them. 

I also want to add that badly fitted english saddle may cause a _permanent _damage in horse... And there is a number of people on forum, who know about it not from just someone's words... :wink:


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

I would go with a brown Wintec AP saddle. The Wintecs have changable gullets, so you can make sure you get the right fit. In a Wintec, he would likely be a medium-wide gullet.

A brown saddle will have a higher resale value and an easier time selling it should you decide English riding isn't your thing, or you decide to show more or switch to Dressage.

If you don't want a synthetic saddle, then a good medium tree All Purpose saddle would likely fit, like an older Stubben, Passier, Courbette, or Collegiate. Older Crosby medium trees may fit as well. If the tree comes in cm sizes, look for a 31-32 cm tree.

English saddles run differently, so a medium in one brand may fit but a medium in another may not. The size can alsy vary among the models within a brand, or new vs. older modles. Most stock horses need an English saddle with shorter tree points, to allow those big shoulders room to move. A medium tree with short tree points will fit better than a medium tree with longer tree points.

If you want a fixed tree saddle, you need to work with a local shop or an online that does saddle trials. A good online shop can also have you take wither tracings and narrow down your search based on that and photos of your horse.

For your size, you'll most likely need an 18" seat, but it depends on how you fit in your current 16" saddle. If you have some room in front of your thigh (3-4") when you're seated in the middle of the saddle (not up against the back/cantle), then you might be fine in a 17.5" English saddle. If you prefer a snug fitting saddle and only have 1-2" of room in front of your thigh and like to sit more against the back of your saddle, then you may need an 18-19" English saddle. 

Again, working with a shop would be helpful. A good online shop can look at picture of you seated in your current saddle plus your height/weight and they can help you find the right size. If you have a local shop where you can sit in saddles, you want to have 3-4 fingers of space behind your rear end and between you and top of the rise of the pommel. You want room to be able to post the trot comfortably without going over the front of the pommel.

Do not, I repeat, do NOT buy a cheap English "starter package". They are not made well, have ZERO resale value (littleraly, none), rarely fit horses well, and rarely put the rider in a decent position. The best way to use your money on an English saddle is to buy a used European or Argentinian made saddle, or a good synthetic like Wintec or Thorowgood. If you stick with one of these options, you'll be much happier in the long run, as will your horse ;-).


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

kitten_Val said:


> I had no issues to buy a western saddle for my horses (it's standard Alamo saddle). However it took me to use (very good and very known in area) saddle fitter and 8(!) english saddles to try, and only 1 out of those 8 was a good fit for them.
> 
> I also want to add that badly fitted english saddle may cause a _permanent _damage in horse... And there is a number of people on forum, who know about it not from just someone's words... :wink:


Exactly. A TB is much easier to fit for an English saddle as those are the type of horses those saddles are made for! When you have a stock horse or similar shaped horse, it can be a real challenge. I think I went through 7 English saddles before finding one that fit my mare, and I still had to have the flocking adjusted to get it just right, lol. 

Yet, almost all of the western saddles I have put on her fit just fine, or needed just a slight adjustment in padding. Why? Because she's a nice, medium width stock horse and that's what most western saddles are made to fit.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Lippylulu,

If your daughter is 5'2" and uses a 16" western saddle, I would bet she would feel much better in a 15" western saddle, and a 17" English.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

I use a 17 english and a 16 western, and both are perfect fits. I don't believe there is more than 1" difference, in fact the saddle dealers I have talked to use that as their guide. Perhaps some of it may depend on whether you want a/p or cc, and if you have knee rolls or not. I had a Stubben VSS for 20 yrs( which I bought used), medium tree, and it fit all the horses I had, from TB to Draft X. 

When you fit an english saddle-fit it without the pad. And, FYI, a pad will NOT make up for a bad fit!

Unless your guy is super wide, I bet a medium tree will fit, but I do agree with the advice about the wintec. They are really pretty nice looking anf feeling-even my "leather snob" friend was very happy with the one she got for her daughter. The changeable gullets are wonderful. I have a Bates with the CAIR and love it. Not something you would want to change several times a day, but not difficult, either.


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## Shimla101 (Nov 7, 2010)

> And, FYI, a pad will NOT make up for a bad fit!


No, you're right that it won't make up for it if the saddle really doesn't fit at all. But certain types of pads will make a *good* fit, better. And I stress 'certain types of pads', because some can make a *good* fit, worse. I'd personally steer clear of any kind of high-density foam. I absolutely HATE the wintec riser pads (and their copies), and most generic, supposedly 'gel' pads. Those can often cause more problems than help. In my opinion, the only kind of half-pad that should be used (if necessary) is a genuine sheepskin. 

As far as saddles. The few quarter-horse-type horses that I've fitted saddles too here in South Africa, tend to be quite short in the back, which can make saddle-fitting difficult, because you have to be so aware of the eighteenth rib rule. I've seen none, so far, that can take anything over a 17" saddle at the very, very most. I've had a lot of success fitting the new-style Wintec AP saddle, because the channel is broad enough to keep clear of the spine, and the panels behind sit really nicely on a broad back. They've also got what I call an almost gusseted front panel, which gives enough room across loaded shoulders and low whithers. 

They're also really affordable, durable and easy to sell on.


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## Lippylulu (Dec 1, 2010)

The 17 inch English Stubben was too big for her (she may be closer to 5'1 1/2 than 5'2"--who knows). Her Western Saddle is a 20 year old Simco. The seller said it was a 16. It is considered a "junior" saddle so you may very well be right that it is closer to a 15 since most junior saddles don't go over size 15. Since it is so old (but in AMAZING condition) it may be that sizing has changed a bit over the years as will. 

My biggest concern was that the Stubben Edelweiss wouldn't fit our new quarterhorse. My daughter really wanted this saddle since she had ridden in one before but when we got her quarterhorse he was more than a little barrel shaped (OK so he was a bit of a porker). He has trimmed down a bit with conditioning but he is still a quarterhorse. The Stubben fits him and my daughter perfectly; but he needs a girth extender for now because the billets are shorter in a Stubben jump saddle than in her previous all purpose.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I'm surprised to see people suggesting saddles, without even knowing the size, shape and construction of the OP's horses back, body.

I suggest, hiring a Professional Saddle Maker/Fitter to come to your place, in person to see your horse 1 on 1, to beable to assess saddles on your horses back to ensure proper fit and balance, and to see you in the saddle to see how you fit in the saddle, and watch how your horse moves in the saddle and your position in the saddle.

With saddles that have adjustable gullets, like the Wintec, Pessoa and Bates - "A perfect fit" is a load of HOOEY!!!! Just because you can change the width size of the Tree, does not mean you can change the shape of the tree entirely.

If you have a horse that has any arch to their back, stay away from Wintecs, because they have VERY STRAIT tree's. No matter how you change the "Gullet" you cannot make the saddle fit the rest of the body. I also dislike the Panels and how they are shaped, and I realllllllly dislike the lack of space in the Channel - causing the saddle to put pressure on the horses spine and the muscles around it. 

Horrible saddle as far as I am concerned.

There is SO MUCH MORE involved in fitting a saddle on your horse, far beyond the size of the Tree *Medium, Medium/Wide, Narrow, Wide* 

PLEASE, hire a Professional to come to your place in person, to work with you 1 on 1.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Once again, I'm going to counter you on Wintecs MIE. It depends entirely on the individual saddle. I have two Wintec 500's - one is about ten years old and the other about three. 

The old saddle has a super bendy tree. It fits my short, fat, banana backed Arab beautifully. It has never gone on any of my flatter backed horses because it is too bendy - it will rock back and forth. 

The newer saddle is very flat through the panels, so it suits my two horses who are flat through the back. 

Definitely get a good, professional saddle fitter out. They will have accurate information on saddles they know from fitting hundreds of horses.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shimla101 (Nov 7, 2010)

I generally recommend getting a saddle fitter out. However, I'm also aware that some fitters charge exorbitant fees and some people live quite far out from main centers where it's not so easy to get someone to come and fit saddles. Which is why I recommend getting something which will have a chance of fitting most types of horses.

Of course, if you can afford a fitter, and there's one close by, then definitely get that person out to fit a selection of saddles.


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## GeenasGQ (Dec 22, 2010)

*My horse fits a semi quater horse bar western saddle what is that in an english saddle?*
as most people have said, it depends on the shape of your horse and the saddle brand. but typically a semi-QH bar western saddle will be similar to a medium or narrow tree english saddle. but not always. A lot of tack stores, including some online are willing to let you "test ride" a saddle, where you would get to try it on your horse and see what you think of it and then buy one if you so choose. This might be a good option for you. Also, some places will let you trailer your horse into the tack store, where they will try on saddles and tell you which one is the best fit. Make sure that if you have a professional fitter come that you let them know what your budget is and exactly what you are looking for. most come with some pretty hefty priced saddles.

*My saddle has a 16in seat what would that be an english saddle?*

again, I'd look into some saddles, maybe go to a tack store and see what you find is your preference. typically, a 16" western transfers to an 18" english.

*What leather colour? I am planning to just stay with english pleasure and MAYBE jumping but thats up in the air right now. *

I'd just go with a medium brown/havana brown. they match all horses and it doesn't go out of style. I personally like to stay away from black saddles, unless using it for dressage because they just don't seem to fit in english pleasure, and i haven't seen many for jumping, either.

*Any brands to stay away from and others to keep in mind? *
depending on your price range, wintecs CAN be good for some horses. they do have the options of changing the gullets, but like many other saddles, the gullets don't always fit your horse as well as you'd like. these are also synthetic so that's a preference thing. If you like the idea of the changing gullet but like leather, I'd look into Bates saddles, as they are the same thing only leather and more expensive. I've heard many people have good luck with passoa, courbette, stubben, and on the cheaper end, HDR saddles. I'd stay away from the cheap-y brands like silver fox, cortina, all of the ones you will find really inexpensive.

for english pleasure and dabbling into jumping, I'd look into getting an all purpose style saddle because it will be best for the different purposes. You could get a jumping saddle or a close contact if you prefered, though. Just know that if you get a jumping saddle, the best ones have the block at the back of the leg, and that's not a typical thing that you see in english pleasure saddles.

also pay attention to how it sits on your horse's back. I have issues fitting saddles to my horse because she has a narrow wither and a wide back which is typical for warmbloods. because of this, a medium/narrow gullet fits her fantastic in the front and terribly in the back. There are certain brands that fit differently in different places and all horses are slightly different so I think it's just a matter of finding the right brand and right saddle for you.

In my experience, people may correct me as I'm not a perfect saddle fitter, with an english saddle, you want it to sit flat on the horse's back comfortably. This will typically mean that the back of the seat is about an inch higher up that the very front of the saddle when it's sitting on your horse. you also don't want to feel uneven pressure if you stick your hand in between the saddle and the horse's wither. if it's uneven, it's pinching them somewhere. Another way to tell is if the horse is typically not girthy and you start to tighten the girth and he doesn't like it, it can be a sign that it's pinching. you can also ride in the saddle until the horse sweats and if it's a solid sweat, it's a good fit, if there are dry spots, it's pinching in those areas.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

> Once again, I'm going to counter you on Wintecs MIE. It depends entirely on the individual saddle. I have two Wintec 500's - one is about ten years old and the other about three.


Again, I will disagree with you - and I have posted pictures to show you exactly what I am talking about with the tree's on Wintecs in other threads where we have discussed this very topic. The ONLY Wintec that has an arch to the tree, is the Wintec 500 CC - that's it. The Wintec 500 A/P, the Wintec 2000, the Wintec 500 Dressage, have strait tree's.


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## Tasia (Aug 17, 2009)

So keep wintecs in mind or no? I have personally rode in a Bates and I have tried a stubben on Champ I liked the stubben better. This could be useless info as he has gained a large amount of muscle since trying those saddles. I much rather go with leather than synthetic.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> The *Wintec 500 A/P*, the Wintec 2000, the Wintec 500 Dressage, have strait tree's.


EXCEPT I have a Wintec 500 A/P in my shed right now that HAS a bendy tree. Why is that so hard for you to accept? I'm not making this up, I have ridden my bendy backed Arab in that saddle for close on ten years now. 



> So keep wintecs in mind or no?


I generally use Wintecs for horses I won't be keeping for too long, or horses that have really easy to fit backs (Like my bendy Arab). A Wintec didn't work for my ASH who ha previous saddle damage to his back. However, I also only have flock Wintec but I think the Cair is a better system and would go with Cair in any future Wintecs I buy. The Wintec Isabel is a lovely saddle and the two times I rode him in it, the sore-backed ASH went beautifully (With cair).


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## TheLastUnicorn (Jun 11, 2010)

I think any make that fits is just fine.

Most wintecs do have a straighter tree, and straighter panels... but I have one older one with some curve (not enough to fit a really bananna backed horse though)

I like Wintec when they fit, easy to care for, lightweight, look nice, and my first one is still going - nearly 12 years later.


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## Tack Collector (Nov 10, 2009)

fwiw, many of the Crosby saddles and the older Collegiate saddles made by Ruiz Diaz were sort of intended for the American market. A Crosby medium tree might work nicely. The Crosby California Prix des Nations, in my opinion, was a wider and straighter (flatter) tree that was kind of aimed at the QH market for a while.

Wintecs, as someone mentioned, and the latest APs and dressage models are for a flatter back than the pre-2009 ones. I don't think they changed the close contact tree at all, so any year of 500 or Pro Jump cc might fit.

If you know that you want to show or jump, then get a close contact. Some of them are minimalist and plain flaps and don't have knee rolls or blocks. But some are at the opposite end of the spectrum and are more like and an AP but have a square cantle.

Keep in mind that Toulouse saddles seem to run narrow. Many American horses are wide or XW in that line. It was sold as Intec or Flex Rider before it became Toulouse.

Some of the HDR saddles are also rather narrow. HDR was sold as the Nice brand, and those are a good value that sells for low prices.

Stubben: Probably don't even look at any tree width less than 31 or 32, unless it's an older Stubben Siegfried or other AP that ran wider.


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