# Mechanical hackamore



## celestejasper13 (May 16, 2014)

Bits, rope halters and mechanical hackamores all have the potential to cause pain or not cause pain depending on how they are used. In my experience, a double jointed snaffle bit is less severe than a hackamore in terms of leverage, and using a rope halter is a better option if your horse is trained to neck rein, as direct reining with a contact can lead to friction.

The one that is best for your horse is the one that your horse responds best to - this may not necessarily be the one that is the least severe in your mind. For example, my horse is happiest in a mullen mouth pelham bit, which even though is more severe in the wrong hands, he tells me he is more comfortable with. He doesn't fuss with it and is keen to work and responds well to light rein aids.

Is there someone you know who could lend you some different options so you can try them out and get your horse's opinion?


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## 252553 (Apr 25, 2017)

Thank you for replying 

As of yet I do not own a horse and I won't own one until I am financially stable to own one and I know I have the best knowledge to care for one. 

As for my friends I really only have one horsey friend I trust completely and doesn't put me down but she doesn't agree with me on bitless riding. She loves using snaffle mouth.

I guess I'm just confused.


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## edf (Dec 20, 2013)

While I agree- bridle type should be what works best for the horse, a few more things to consider:

Check out different types of hackamores- there are variations of them. For the mechanical ones- there are ones that work on much more leverage, where as others not as much.

As far as bitless goes ( which I prefer bitless) 
you have side pulls- they are kinda like halters but more bridle looking.
Hackamores
Mechanical Hackamores
Dr Cook's bitless bridle- this is the one I use. When I get off my lazy butt, I am going to measure her again, because she sometimes lifts her head with this- she may not completely like the bridle since it puts pressure along the underside of her head- its only an issue if we are working on a more contact rein, like trying to work on collection.
there can be more types too

Each type has its pro's and con's. I would just google them and read up about how they work. You can actually search youtube video's- I wish I had the link- one went over a few different ones and showed how they work.

While I don't like bits myself- any type of bridle can be used harshly. The reason I don't like bits- well, I m afraid of the times where my horse may spook/trip/ I may just be having a brain fart and I clock my horse in the mouth. While I would love to say I am light handed all the time- crap happens and sometimes I realize after the fact it was more like a yank ( if your horse spooks and jumps forward- well, the reins tighted and pull me forward for example). For me, using a bit is just one more thing I have to worry about, and I don't want to worry about it.

Now, when the reins snap tight on a bitless for any reason- the horse is receiving that pressure elsewhere- either the bridge of the nose, or in my Dr Cooks, on the underside of the face, a bit of the poll and some nose. That can be dangerous too, however, I feel it is a bit more dispersed than just in the horses mouth- but bottom line- the horse still feels it.

The best thing you can do is really understand how each bridle works- how it applies pressure and everything ( include bitted bridles in your search too) and take safety measures when needed. Like for example- for a side pull that puts pressure on the nose- thinner straps apply more pressure than thicker straps. You can get this fluffy thing to go around that strap to provide some cushion ( sorry, I don't know the name of it..lol) Also, when the time comes you are trying it on a horse- go back to the basics and see how the horse reacts to it.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

If you ride 'english' and want to continue to ride 'english' then a rope halter isn't really going to be the right thing for your horse (if and when you get one) because they just don't lend themselves well to that type of riding
I have no problem at all with someone wanting to ride bitless if that's what they want to do but remember that anything can cause pain if used harshly. The horse's face has lots of nerves in it and the bone running down the front is a lot more fragile than the jawbone.
If you want to ride bitless then I would start with a good fitting sidepull and go from there. If you want better brakes then look at the mechanical hackamores that are more suited to English riding like the Zilco Flower, Zilco S, English hackamore & Stubben Hackamore. The last one has a well padded noseband but ou can add extra sheepskin to the other nosebands to reduce pressure there


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

I have a Herm Sprenger shanked hackamore that I use on my mare. I added a double chain under the chin, because the leather strap didn't get her attention enough. With the double chain (laid flat), she pays attention beautifully.


Any piece of equipment can be cruel in the wrong hands. I've ridden bitted for over 40 years but this mare had never worn one prior to me buying her, so I wasn't going to make her start. She does very well in an English hackamore.


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## 252553 (Apr 25, 2017)

edf said:


> While I agree- bridle type should be what works best for the horse, a few more things to consider:
> 
> Check out different types of hackamores- there are variations of them. For the mechanical ones- there are ones that work on much more leverage, where as others not as much.
> 
> ...


 
Aww that makes a lot of sense to me in all honesty and thank you for your advice.

I must clarify I'm not saying EVERY rider that uses a bit and spurs is abusive, I know very well how much they love and care for their horses and it is their own choice but I don't want to be that kind of owner and rider to my horse.

I want my horse to live a pain free life as much as possible


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## BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 (Apr 11, 2016)

Bits don't have to be harsh at all, it's all in the hands. The same is true for anything else, rope halter, hackamore, bosal, whatever.

Personally I ride one horse in a halter and reins (though he sometimes he probably needs more), one in a mild curb bit, and the others have been ridden in a snaffle (none are mine). All are just fine (and I'm not experienced). I just knew enough to stay out of their mouths. Given that a mechanical hack does have leverage, hard hands could potentially damage the nose, but that could happen with anything else too. Just really depends on what the horse and rider are comfortable with.

I do prefer bitless, because like previously mentioned, that's one less thing I have to worry about in a situation. I'm not proud of it but I sometimes unintentionally get a little rough when I'm nervous/feel out of control of the horse, so bitless is better for me and the horses. I've gotten a lot better, but until I can work on being totally calm and in control during these situations, that's going to be the case. I'll ride in a bit and can do it comfortably, just not my first choice for most horses.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Seoul said:


> Hi I was just wondering if someone could tell me if a mechanical hackamore was painless for a horse because it has no bit.
> 
> I'm a bit confused in whether it would be better to ride in a rope halter or a mechanical hackamore.
> 
> Can someone please let me know which is best for my horse to be pain free.


 
Bits do not cause pain. It is a tool.
Halters do not cause pain. It is a tool.
Hackamores do not cause pain. It is a tool.

What causes pain is when a *person with HANDS* is rough with the tool.

Any tool can inflict pain on a horse if it is not used correctly.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

A hackamore and a rope halter use pressure points to control the horse, meaning that they actually can and will inflict pain. The horse is rewarded by giving to the pressure because it alleviates any pain or pressure. The pressure points on the rope halter are the knots. The points on the hackamore will depend on the version you have but it's usually around the nose and the chin.


A bit is actually less intrusive. They can actually eat and drink with a bit in their mouth AND... the bit is only as harsh as the riders hands - meaning if you have soft hands then you will have a gentle ride. But your horse needs to be trained and understand the pressure.


A regular halter would be less painful because there are not pressure points BUT you also may have no control depending on the horse and how it is trained.


Does that help?


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

Do you have much riding experience? With and without bits? You talk about owning a horse being a dream that's maybe a bit far off now, but one you'd like to achieve as soon as you can. In the meantime, I'd very strongly suggest taking some lessons and gaining some experience. Regardless of what type of bridle you end up with, the way to be the most gentle and have the least risk of causing pain to your horse is to learn to have a good balanced seat so you aren't dependent on your reins for balance, and won't be as likely to catch your horse in the mouth if they spook or if something happens. You can also use your lessons as an opportunity to understand bits and how they work, and whether or not they're something you want to use when the time comes. They're not typically as bad or as harsh as you might think.

I personally think a lot of mechanical hackamores are much more severe than many of the bit options out there. I knew a horse once that had a big permanent dent in the bridge of his nose from being ridden for years in a mechanical hackamore by someone who clearly had bad hands and/or didn't adjust it correctly. I can't imagine how much pain he was in, for how long, for that to have happened.

By contrast, the horse I ride most often these days is so "meh" about her bit, she'll actually lean right into the reins and try to get you to hold her head up for her!


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## 6gun Kid (Feb 26, 2013)

My Granddad always said that hackymores (as he called them) put the most pressure on the least padded part of the horse. The skin on their nose and under their jaw, is very thin and has little fat or muscle, especially the nose. So, a hackamore has as much (if not more) potential to cause pain and injury than a bit.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

This is what a horse's head looks like under the layers of skin and tissue - its really easy to see how fine that bone running down the nose is and that compared to the jaw its actually going to be at higher risk of being damaged by rough hands than if a regular bit is used.
I'll say again - I'm not against bitless bridles but in the wrong hands they'll be every bit as bad and worse than a bitted bridle
I would say use one because you want to use one or your horse goes better in one but never use one because you think its going to be kinder.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

What you use, depends on the education of both you and the horse.
Any equipment can be harsh, used either incorrectly, with heavy hands, or on a horse, that is not at a level to be ridden with a certain bit
Far as mechanical hackamores, some can be very harsh, so don't fall into the trap that all bittless, whether using leverage or not, are kinder then bits
While some horses prefer bittless, there are also horses that prefer abit, esp if that bit is used for signal, with the hrose riding on a loose rein


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

6gun Kid said:


> My Granddad always said that hackymores (as he called them) put the most pressure on the least padded part of the horse. The skin on their nose and under their jaw, is very thin and has little fat or muscle, especially the nose. So, a hackamore has as much (if not more) potential to cause pain and injury than a bit.


That is very true, esp with those that cross under the cheek bones, and even those working on the cartilage over the facial bones. 
I have no problem with anyone wishing to ride bittless, just with the ideology that any bittless devise, including severe mechanical hackamores, are kinder then bits
Also, many times, horses declared 'not to like bits', lack the proper education to those new pressure points, with people not realizing that non leverage bittless devises work off of many of the same pressure points that the horse has learned to respond to, since being halter broke
They then expect the horse to extrapolate those new pressure points, that a bit uses, versus giving the horse a chance to learn those new pressure points.
The mouth is 'virgin territory, far as response to pressure, while the nose, face, ect already was introduced tot hat giving to pressure, form the time th ehorse was halter broke


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

beau159 said:


> Bits do not cause pain. It is a tool.
> Halters do not cause pain. It is a tool.
> Hackamores do not cause pain. It is a tool.
> 
> ...


^^^ This. It can't be said enough.

If you want your horse to be as pain-free as possible, the best way to achieve that is to learn how to properly use the equipment and how to keep your hands light ---- even in an emergency.

One favorite phrase of some of us old and long time riders is "don't ride the horse's head".


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

My horse much prefers a fat eggbutt snaffle to a hackamore.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Seoul said:


> Hi I was just wondering if someone could tell me if a mechanical hackamore was painless for a horse because it has no bit.
> 
> I'm a bit confused in whether it would be better to ride in a rope halter or a mechanical hackamore.
> 
> ...


Writing before reading other responses. Sure I'll repeat at least some...

ANY head gear can be used painfully, just as bits can be used well & without pain. It is about the training & the hands on the other end of the reins that governs that. I've horses in flat halters with the bark off their nose because someone was hanging off the reins... Therefore, if you're worried about causing your horse any pain,_ regardless_ what you use, I'd find a good, considerate(of the horse) instructor & have some lessons first & foremost.

But obviously, with 'bad hands' on the reins, some equipment can cause more or less pain than other types, which I think is what you're asking - which is most 'forgiving'. For that, I'd say depending on your riding style, a real hackamore(bosal) or rope halter(without knots over the nose, fitted high enough) for Western style, or a 'sidepull' halter/bitless bridle for English. Some swear by the 'crossover' bitless bridles such as the Dr Cook one, some hate them - different strokes, but I like to keep things simple & can't see the point of them.

I would not use a bit on a horse until both the horse & rider is well enough educated for it to be used with light pressure/signals, not with any force. I would hesitate to use a mechanical hack for an uneducated horse/rider either, because they're leverage devices that can exert a LOT of pressure. Further, I would not use a mechanical so called 'hackamore' for English style riding(despite them being called 'English' or 'German' hacks), because they are built to be used with 2 reins at a time, not really clear or most suitable for use with independent/direct reins.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

farmpony84 said:


> A hackamore and a rope halter use pressure points...
> A bit is actually less intrusive. They can actually eat and drink with a bit in their mouth AND... the bit is only as harsh as the riders hands


As you see if you read my post above, I'm not one of those that think bits are devil spawn or such, but I disagree with this on principle. Sure, in practice, many rope halters & some hacks(talking of real ones) use so called 'pressure points' - that is, hard knots or stiff, thin parts resting on extra sensitive areas of the muzzle/nose. Many people, including me, don't use this type though. My halters all have broad, flattened & soft nose pieces, so they're no different in action from a flat halter, and my bosal is a soft leather one. But even with 'pressure points' argument, how is that different to using a bit which is acting on the super sensitive(& uncallousable) bars of the mouth???

I don't get why you say a piece of metal in the mouth is less intrusive. Sure horses can *learn* to eat with a bit in their mouth, rather than just do it naturally as with a halter/hack, but it's beyond me why you mention that as a point FOR bits. They can also learn to carry a bit comfortably & effectively ignore it's presence when not acted on, depending on said bit, shape of mouth, absence of tooth probs etc. Many bits also have uncomfortable shapes, parts etc, that mean the horse learns to endure this rather than being actually comfortable in it. But horses tend to wear a halter comfortably with far less ado.

At the end of the day, whatever the equipment, it's only as gentle as the hands on the reins, but there is generally far more 'leeway' - as in, less pain/damage caused - when too much pressure is applied to a halter/hack(real, not mechanical - which usually sit lower on weaker nose bones, more sensitive area, have varying amounts of leverage...) than to a bit of metal resting on super sensitive bars of the mouth. Aside from possibilities such as a horse getting a foot through the reins & other 'accidental' happenings.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

To me, a mechanical hackamore is very similar in function to a curb bit. It acts very much the same way except it's putting pressure on the nose instead of the mouth. So yes it can be strong. But I would still use one if that's what the horse rode best in. Currently my horses are all riding in curb bits. 

I am probably one of the few people out there that never seems to have a horse that rides well in a snaffle. I've tried and tried and own several snaffles but my horses always end up riding best in curbs. Maybe it's because it allows me to stay out of their mouth. But me and snaffles never seem to end up in a lasting relationship.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Seoul said:


> I want my horse to live a pain free life as much as possible


People look at bits and whips and think about a horse having pain. From what I've seen in the horse world, the things that can cause pain are often less obvious. I've seen many people who want to be very gentle and train their horses without cruelty - yet their horses' diets are balanced poorly and their hoof care is sub-par. Horses might be ridden in a bit for several hours a week, but they walk around on their hooves for 24/7 every day. Letting a horse get obese with sore hooves is a sure way to make him have pain almost every minute of every day. Dental problems, muscle weakness from vitamin deficiencies, etc cause a lot of pain but are often overlooked.

People think bits are cruel, but then ride their horses in poorly fitting saddles or bounce heavily on the horse while riding bareback. I've seen white hairs caused from people riding poorly bareback and causing pressure on the horse's back. This is rare, but something to consider.

Having a focus on being natural is not the same thing as preventing pain. I've seen people who believe shoes are cruel and their horses suffer from sole bruising from being ridden over jagged rocks. 

My opinion is that we have to look at how we treat horses "big picture." Either of my horses like being ridden bitless. I think many horses do. However, the bigger picture with one of my horses is that she loves to gallop in open spaces. If I gallop her in a hackamore and we race other horses which she loves to do, then if she is in a hackamore I have to pull very hard to get her to stop. If she is in a bit that works for her, I can be a lot more gentle. Neither of my horses minds wearing a bit, they just appreciate having a free mouth and head more. But that doesn't mean it is always best for them. With some horses, you can ride them in a simple halter and it is just lovely until they run away, you fall off and they get killed by a car on the highway. So big picture, it's not always the best thing overall for every horse. 

If you go on bitless groups, there are many people who strongly believe it's all in the training and any horse can be ridden in a halter. Yes, I can ride even a very hot horse in a small enclosed space in a halter, with training. But with all the training in the world I can't take them out and gallop hard in open country and keep us both safe. I don't see why someone would need to limit what they do based on ideals that the horse doesn't even care about. If you asked many horses, I think they'd rather go out and gallop down a beach wearing a bit than walk around their field in little circles day after day in a halter.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Just want to point out that horses can carry a bit with their tongues. A double-joint snaffle will tend to apply more pressure to the tongue and less to the bars. It is obviously possible to injure the horse's tongue with a thin snaffle used harshly, but a well designed bit used lightly mostly just rests there.

Another option to consider is going western, where one typically uses a curb bit - but rarely. The bit below was my mare's favorite - based on what she acted most calm, most relaxed, but also most interested in continuing forward with a cheerful attitude:










Used like this, it is not in any way a harsh bit:










The bit that seems to give best results with my current horse is this one:










If he is feeling nervous, or if we are going at some speed, he prefers constant contact, at least for a few minutes. Like most horses I've met, mine tend to pick up the bit. When you place it in their mouth, they wiggle their tongue and you can see the bit go 1/4-1/2 inch higher, where they then carry it during the ride.

The horse I currently ride was previously ridden extensively in a bosal. He also has a lot of white hair on his face, near where a bosal sits. It is the only place where he has white hairs. I take that to mean a bosal can be harsh, if ridden improperly.

I've also ridden him in several different sidepulls. He does fine unless he gets excited. Once excited, he seems to forget about his rider and tries to make the decisions by himself - which would be fine, if his judgment was at least as good as mine. But it often isn't, and then he is more likely to hurt himself (and me).

A western curb bit, ridden correctly, is arguably gentler than a hackamore. I won't go into why here, but they can give a very gentle way of communicating with your horse. They obviously are not meant to be ridden with constant contact for any length of time, which is why I mostly use snaffles with my current horse.

You cannot separate "gentle" and "pain-free" from the individual horse, rider and goal. Horses make choices, and horses don't watch YouTube videos on what makes them happy. Keep an open mind, experiment, and let your horse (when you have one) tell you what to use. The horse's answer can run from a simple sidepull to a curb. Some (Bandit) favor contact, while others (Trooper) do not.

If you want a few GOOD videos on bits and how they work, and have a couple of hours to learn, I recommend these:


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