# New Truck???



## jgnmoose (May 27, 2015)

My understanding is basically what you said. The main difference between a 3/4 ton and a 1 ton is mostly in the rear end setup. Specifically the suspension and resulting maximum tow weight. 

Something I recently started to become aware of too is the weight of the truck itself. Simply put, a fully loaded out 3/4 ton RAM 2500 (or any truck) weighs more and that further reduces the amount the truck can safely tow. 

Add a tool box, aux fuel tank, people, dogs, feed, those cement bags that got wet and you never removed from the bed and everything else and that reduces the amount the truck can safely tow some more. It makes perfect sense if you think about it, but I'm guessing some people like me were only looking at the ratings on the sticker. 

It is dang near criminal what new trucks cost! I could do a lot more with $80k of my hard earned money that will have value later on so I'm probably done buying brand new. 

In your position I'd probably start with a low mileage properly maintained Ram 3500 around 2012-2016 to get that price difference down to something reasonable. The good news is your Ram 2500 if it is in good shape is doing great on resale value, 4th gen Cummins are the most popular diesel trucks.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Take this for what it is...
My husband is a mechanic, specializing in trucks and diesels in particular.
First off he would tell you that being that close to your full-weighted load is risky and again, no load is tested with live cargo only stagnant weight of a boar or camper...never, ever horse or livestock.
The weight you carry is great on a truck that would be near maximum even partially loaded in honesty.
Your truck is aging, period.
Things are wearing out and need replacing even if just sitting in the yard.

With aging comes issues of throwing codes because filters start to clog and become troublesome on the diesel engines.
Welcome to DEF...
He sees in the shop he works in trucks of all manufacturer and sizes from P/U to the massive big rigs and works on all of them.
He has spoken numerous times of the trucks, specifically diesel p/u needing new filters because of codes, clogging and run quality...
_Often those filters are over $10,000 to replace...  be prepared!!_
The older model trucks where the DEF system was a new baby are often a large financial headache once the dash starts to light up... :frown_color:

Now, can you get around those computer sensors when they go off...of course and many do.
But today when all vehicles are so finely controlled to run efficiently, cleanly and with engine longevity all tied to the sensors which ties to the very expensive computer, disabling the system might be the demise of your investment far faster than you realize.
When as I call them, idiot lights go on..._there is a reason._
It might not be today you pay the price of ignoring or not correcting correctly that issue but in a few months time when your truck not perform as you know it can, when the engine is damaged and unreliable or blows up cause a sensor was ignored or by-passed.
Any extended warranty is void, and a recall that might of been covered now void...and when you go to sell the truck in a few years, the get-around-the-system is going to cost you $$$ in lost revenue of what it should be worth.
My husband has remarked to me to many times that truck after truck he sees arrive and is diagnosed with DEF issue resulting in filters needing changed that the owners have either "abandoned" the truck, sold it for a pittance or taken the truck straight to a dealer and traded it in to rid themselves of the headaches.
It isn't just your truck, but many trucks in many categories and manufacture he said this occurs to.

So me...
I would swallow my heart and head to the dealership and indeed buy that new[er] truck that first off can handle the load with room to spare.
2019 and 2020 have higher capacity numbers than your 2013 in all Chevy, Ford or Dodge/Ram manufacturer. The following link referred to 2WD trucks.
* https://www.tfltruck.com/2019/06/2019-2020-heavy-duty-truck-towing-capability-buyers-guide/ *
I don't do "Toy's", period so not even in the game.
Now, here is a breakdown by Edmunds of the new trucks in 2500/250 category...
*https://www.edmunds.com/ram/2500/2020/crew-cab/*
Very interesting to read and what is most interesting is no place is tow capacity/load mentioned so guess you need to dig for those numbers.
Once though you add 4x4 you lose some capacity.
Once you add mega cabs you lose bed length in some category, although think all crew cabs still offer 8' and if hauling a gooseneck I would _not_ have anything other than.
I can tell you for a fact though depending upon the gear ratio you can alter your tow capacity some along with fuel economy too...give here take there but that give/take may allow you to stay in the mid-range 2500/250.
Found that out when hubby custom ordered his truck and specified do-dads as I call them and watched the numbers move around on capacity and such.

If this was me,...knowing my husband has no reason to fudge facts about those DEF issues and the age of the vehicles he sees it occurring in...
My fingers would be doing some serious searching right now.
End of year sales are happening, dealers must clear inventory cause the 2021 are coming in soon.
Deals because of COVID are happening, and incentives of 0% financing with a trade-in may not cost you more per payment but yes will extend how long you yet will pay for a new vehicle you buy getting out from under headaches starting with the 2013 one.
Also look for any rebates hidden...
When we bought our truck years ago we saved in rebates because we both hold a CDL license & were listed as owner on the title.
We saved by using Sam's Club, Costco, AAA and AARP auto buying programs comparing and because we arrived with a trade-in worth money it reduced the cost of purchase which saved us sales tax around $1,000.
It all added up in the end to make a savings of $8,600 saved, then trade-in,...then we figured the financing and we paid interest where today, most of the dealers advertise interest free for 72 - 84 months on the big ticket items of large trucks.


But me..._newer used or new truck._
To not push my aging vehicle to its capacity of handling on a stagnant load test numbers, forget loaded live cargo. :icon_rolleyes:
To beef up suspension, drive-train, braking and cooling systems.
To not need to replace aging tires {that alone saved you $1,000+}
To know my new trailer, my horses and I have the latest safety features and come-on creature comforts count when spending this kind of money..._sign on the dotted line._

_Be very careful of the years you look at because when DEF was mandated to the trucks emission systems = codes thrown, filter issues and costly repairs._
_I would not look for a truck more than 3 years old or you also bounce back down in towing weight capabilities as older handled less capacity and loads. jmo
_
:runninghorse2:...


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

@jgnmoose, I know what you mean about the cost of the newer trucks!! It is disgusting how expensive they are and I don't owe much on my current truck - so the countdown was on for when it would be paid off. It sucks thinking of starting over with a $70k + loan. Granted, that would come with warranty and a brand new truck, but still!! I did talk to a local dealer and he would giving me very good trade in value on my current truck. I have babied this truck since I got it - has basically brand new tires, brand new batteries and all filter/fluids are changed as scheduled. 
@horselovinguy, I appreciate the detailed response, and it makes sense to me. 

I guess it is the unknown. I don't want to sink even a few more thousand into my truck if the tow capacity isn't there. Plus, my truck has about 143,000km on it, so the mileage isn't bad right now. Re-sale on my truck could actually go down if I did the deletion on it - although it will bypass the DEF system, etc, my truck would not be able to be resold in the US due to the emissions controls. Aside from COVID, most of our used trucks end up in the US, so wholesalers might not be as interested in my truck later on down the road. 

The tricky thing is with financing - I was looking at a 2016 3500, however since the interest rates increase with the older vehicles, I would actually be making monthly payments similar to if I were to buy a brand new fully loaded 3500 Laramie! 

So, in my mind my options are to either re-do the exhaust and delete the DPF & DEF in my truck (plus install air bags)...which would probably run me about $4000....or fork out nearly $74,000 for a 2019/2020 3500 that comes with warranty (plus the extra cash for 3M, and add ons I would want). 

it's a tough call....my truck doesn't seem to struggle hauling the trailer, but I am most worried about components breaking down over time b/c of the weight (as well as the age of my truck).


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Just curious, are you looking at getting a dually if you upgrade to the 3500?

Not sure of the terrain and roads you're traveling, have you considered a sport chassis truck? Here in the US the used ones are getting cheap(cheaper than a used dually pickup in some cases) because you need a CDL to drive one. I just saw an ad for a Peterbilt for $34K. With the right engine and rear ends you'll get more out of it than any pickup and they provide a lot more stability.
However the drawback is getting a CDL and cost for repairs.


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

COWCHICK77 said:


> Just curious, are you looking at getting a dually if you upgrade to the 3500?
> 
> Not sure of the terrain and roads you're traveling, have you considered a sport chassis truck? Here in the US the used ones are getting cheap(cheaper than a used dually pickup in some cases) because you need a CDL to drive one. I just saw an ad for a Peterbilt for $34K. With the right engine and rear ends you'll get more out of it than any pickup and they provide a lot more stability.
> However the drawback is getting a CDL and cost for repairs.


I am not looking at getting a dually. The truck would also be my 'sorta' daily driver, plus I want it to fit in my garage. The dealer found a long box, and I know that would be better for hauling the trailer, but there is no way a long box would fit in my garage. With our Canadian winters I really like to be able to keep my truck in the heated garage - especially the diesel. I don't have to worry about plugging it in all the time - and I've already gone through replacing batteries on nearly everything we own. 

We were joking around that the next step would be a baby Kenworth, but I think just a 3500 pickup would do the trick for what I'm doing.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

I pull a 33' Sundowner....and I'm glad I have a dually.


I also pull it with a 1999 Ford F-350.....I can buy a lot of parts for +$70,000. Yes, you've got to fix a few things....just spent $4000 on a reman transmission, but that's easier for me to take than trying to pay for a truck that's three times more expensive than my first house.


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## jgnmoose (May 27, 2015)

COWCHICK77 said:


> Just curious, are you looking at getting a dually if you upgrade to the 3500?
> 
> Not sure of the terrain and roads you're traveling, have you considered a sport chassis truck? Here in the US the used ones are getting cheap(cheaper than a used dually pickup in some cases) because you need a CDL to drive one. I just saw an ad for a Peterbilt for $34K. With the right engine and rear ends you'll get more out of it than any pickup and they provide a lot more stability.
> However the drawback is getting a CDL and cost for repairs.


This is something I'd seriously consider personally if and when I need a bigger truck and find myself trailering more. A friend of mine has one and it is super smooth pulling a loaded 7 horse to shows. CDL might be worth it just for this to be an option.


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## jgnmoose (May 27, 2015)

gunslinger said:


> I pull a 33' Sundowner....and I'm glad I have a dually.
> 
> 
> I also pull it with a 1999 Ford F-350.....I can buy a lot of parts for +$70,000. Yes, you've got to fix a few things....just spent $4000 on a reman transmission, but that's easier for me to take than trying to pay for a truck that's three times more expensive than my first house.


A lot of those 7.3s are still running very strong too. Good truck.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

cbar said:


> I am not looking at getting a dually. The truck would also be my 'sorta' daily driver, plus I want it to fit in my garage. The dealer found a long box, and I know that would be better for hauling the trailer, but there is no way a long box would fit in my garage. With our Canadian winters I really like to be able to keep my truck in the heated garage - especially the diesel. I don't have to worry about plugging it in all the time - and I've already gone through replacing batteries on nearly everything we own.
> 
> We were joking around that the next step would be a baby Kenworth, but I think just a 3500 pickup would do the trick for what I'm doing.


Oh, I see I must of misread. I thought you said your pickup sits all winter. 

A dually can be a pain to park in the city if you go to one regularly, plus the cost of extra tires. Plus they get stuck so easy compared to a single rear wheel. I used to get frustrated with ours getting stuck on wet grass and I didnt like driving it on slick roads if I didn't have the trailer on loaded.
Loved it for towing down the freeway. We had 24' trailer, could jam a pile of cows on or a full load of horses and it pulled like a dream compared to a single rear wheel.
We did air bag the dually and it was the biggest waste of money on that pickup (2010 Dodge 3500 Laramie) wish we would of done it on the 2007 Dodge 3500 Big Horn(single rear wheel) I think it would of made a difference on stability and leveling a bigger load. But as you know it takes quite a bit to squat a Dodge. 




jgnmoose said:


> This is something I'd seriously consider personally if and when I need a bigger truck and find myself trailering more. A friend of mine has one and it is super smooth pulling a loaded 7 horse to shows. CDL might be worth it just for this to be an option.


It's the road I'm heading down! 
We own our own trucking company and I have a 55 Kenworth for a show/play truck. Because it is considered an antique I don't need a CDL to drive it. However this is the last year in ID you can get a CDL without going through a driving school unfortunately. I'm taking advantage of it and finally getting mine so I can use my truck to do other things if I want. And there is a huge demand for drivers here because of agriculture. Hauling cows, hay, corn, potato and sugar beet harvest. Companies beg for drivers during harvest. Good, fast money in the fall and winter.

Anyhow, my boss has a sport chassis International he uses for going to shows. Cant remember how big the trailer is but we head and tail 13 head of horses on and away he goes! I have taken it into town to run errands and because of the short wheel base its not that bad to run around town and park.


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

COWCHICK77 said:


> Oh, I see I must of misread. I thought you said your pickup sits all winter.
> 
> A dually can be a pain to park in the city if you go to one regularly, plus the cost of extra tires. Plus they get stuck so easy compared to a single rear wheel. I used to get frustrated with ours getting stuck on wet grass and I didnt like driving it on slick roads if I didn't have the trailer on loaded.
> Loved it for towing down the freeway. We had 24' trailer, could jam a pile of cows on or a full load of horses and it pulled like a dream compared to a single rear wheel.
> We did air bag the dually and it was the biggest waste of money on that pickup (2010 Dodge 3500 Laramie) wish we would of done it on the 2007 Dodge 3500 Big Horn(single rear wheel) I think it would of made a difference on stability and leveling a bigger load. But as you know it takes quite a bit to squat a Dodge.


Well, my situation is a bit odd. Ideally I'd like to park my truck all winter, which is why I struggle with the idea of making payments on a new truck that would likely not get driven much. BUT, I find that I inevitably still end up driving my truck in the winter - this year could be a bit different b/c of COVID. And yes, I can imagine that parking a dually in the city would not be fun! I already suck at parking my 3/4 ton..hahaha. 

I've priced out what it would cost to get air bags or the extra leaf spring installed, but of course that doesn't increase towing weight. I do find my truck does squat quite a bit with this trailer (but not as bad as some folks I've seen hauling their toy haulers out camping!!!) 

Is a CDL the same as a class 1 license? I would imagine it would be - or at least having air brakes? 

Camping season is slowing down, so I have kind of decided to just think about this for a bit. It's a big decision - I love my truck, and don't mind putting the money into it. However, my concern is still that my trailer is too much for my truck. 

My b/f thinks I'm crazy for even thinking of getting a new truck.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

cbar said:


> Is a CDL the same as a class 1 license? I would imagine it would be - or at least having air brakes?


CDL= Commercial Driver License.

There are different designations of CDL...
A "Class A CDL" is tractor-trailer capability.
A "Class B CDL" is full size school bus and straight trucks over 26,000 pounds think it is.
A "Class C CDL" is for under 26,000 pounds and small capacity bus or vehicle for hire but not a taxi.

All license class have endorsements that cost extra...
Air-brake, haz-mat, double/triple, school bus, passenger....

You then must have a DOT medical card in good standing that is given by certified practitioners who have gone for the mandated class to administer the physical exam..
Today it is mandated your blood pressure, eyesight, hearing, reflexes, and urine of no sugar dump are all within certain limits.
Medical card is good for 2-years if you not have any conditions requiring you to prove your under doctors care otherwise, 1 year and for certain things a 6-month medical card is given.

No longer can just anyone have a CDL and to keep that license you have to be "healthy" behind the wheel for the safety or you and others sharing the road with you.
If you acquire moving violations, what ever your state allows points wise just was cut in half.
So if allowed to acquire 12 points in 12 months, with a CDL you max at 6 points in the same time...
Taking those classes for point reduction others do no longer help you...your points/violations stay on your license for years and not "erase"
CDL drivers are kept to a higher degree of skill level and law-abiding...
To get your CDL is no longer "easy" but quite a drill to go through, a lot of information to know and to prove knowledge of when you pre-trip a vehicle you now not just do it, you recite what you are doing and why..
The federal government is now overseeing and tightened the screws to make drivers better protected they can not be forced to drive under adverse conditions of all kinds of things today as you know owning a trucking company.

Once you earn the right to have this license you guard it cause once lost it is very difficult to get again, and you may no longer qualify to hold a license depending upon the reason for it taken away.
If you are grandfathered in to easier requirements met don't delay... many don't pass their tests as they do not have the skills needed as you know if you are out their in the professional chauffeur world of CDL holder and driver.
:runninghorse2:...


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