# New bucking problem



## kbg7506 (Jun 21, 2013)

We have had this horse for almost two months and haven't had any problems with him. Overall, he's been VERY good. Then, the other day (after my mom had taken him for a nice long ride), I was cantering and when I went to slow him down, he gave a buck. So I one rein stopped him and then made him continue on at a trot. We went back to the same spot and tried again. He cantered perfectly and then again, when I asked for him to slow down, he bucked twice (the first one seemed to be more of a kick and as soon as I started the one rein stop, he gave a huge buck that almost unseated me and then he stopped). After this, I was a bit shaky so I got off and my mom got back on and she cantered and slowed him four or five times with no problem. A couple days later, we got him tacked up, my mom mounted, flexed both directions and asked for a back up. He backed a few steps and then reared so she brought his head around. Then right after she released his head and asked him to go, he started bucking and tossed her and bolted down the road. After I caught him, we put him on the lead line and she got back on him, flexed, backed up and rode around for twenty minutes with no other problems. I just can't figure out why this is happening all of a sudden. I cant figure out what the two instances have in common that would have triggered this reaction. He had a vet check and a clean bill of health less than a month ago and his saddle fits perfectly so I know its not pain related. Nothing has changed in his routine so I can't figure out why he's started this. My question is, what is the best way to break this habit? I don't want him thinking that every time he doesn't like something, he can buck. Its such a dangerous habit and I hate it. Thanks!


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Clearly, you are a novice rider and don't know how to train a horse.
NOTHING happens "all of the sudden." AGAIN, and I am sorry to tell you, somebody who "knows it all" broke in yet another horse--yours--and didn't know what he was doing, then dumped said horse on the market. Your horse is probably green *and* a little monster, AND lacks foundational training.
This horse will be dangerous for you to keep.
You have a few options, and they will cost you money, BUT not as much money as a trip to the ER or a permanent injury.
(1) Sell the horse at auction and take a $ hit
(2) Hire a trainer who knows how to retrain bucking/rearing and then will train YOU how to maintain this. 
Horses are bigger, stronger and faster than you. TRAINING IS EVERYTHING. I wouldn't sell this horse to a beginner bc he's already tasted bucking a rider off, rearing when asked to do ANYTHING, and bolting away, AND GOTTEN AWAY WITH IT. EVERY TIME a horse like this is retrained he becomes more difficult for the next owner to ride and he gets more proficient at being the leader in your relationship. THE RIDER must ALWAYS be the leader, the horse must follow directions.
Even the best trained horses will lose some of their training if owned by a beginner, but, if trained right, it doesn't take too much to bring them back.

You are ALWAYS training your horse until the day he dies. Even my old herd, who often went months without being ridden, would pick up a bad habit now and then. Both "Corporal" and "Ro Go Bar" (1982-2009, both RIP), each had over *15,000 HOURS under saddle*, after 10 years of lessons and CW Reenactments, local and National. They were pretty bombproof and neither would buck or rear with a novice rider.
You will read pretty much everywhere about somebody who has taken the time to fix a problem horse. _That's nice. _ Personally I bought my horses to RIDE THEM SAFELY, not pay for years of feed and a pasture ornament. You owe this horse nothing beyond kind treatment, food and housing. This horse owes you EVERYTHING, but has NO respect for you, therefore he is a hazard.
IMHO, I don't want a horse to rear...unless I taught him to do so, and THAT horse was a 15yo babysitter who would rear ONLY on command, more of a Levade.


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## 40232 (Jan 10, 2013)

Could we have some background on the horse? Like where you got it from, age, how much training it has, etc?

Welcome to the forum by the way! You will learn a lot from this forum, but sometimes you will see the rather rude people, as I have learned. After I know a bit more about this horse, I will give you my advice


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## Prunella1 (Jun 2, 2013)

I agree with Corporal, this horse needs training from the ground up. He may even need to be worked on the ground for several weeks before being ridden again. My trainer has done alot of improvements on my horse in just two weeks. She is also breaking a two year old, and can get him to lay down. Getting a horse to lay down means that they are totally submissive to the trainer. It is a gentle way of making him understand that the human is in control.

My trainer and I work together so that my horse understands how she should behave no matter who rides or works her. Only problem I have lately is that when I go to work her and ride her in the afternoon, she will stop lunging and no matter what I do, she will just stand there. So, I make her run around the arena and back up alot and then she will lunge and does what she is told to do. She's used to being worked in the morning, and in the afternoon she has been fed, it's warm, she's being lazy....but, still I'm the one paying to feed and board her. 

Since hiring a trainer, my mare has become much calmer, happier and well behaved. She didn't have any bad habits at the other barn, but, at this new barn, she started disrespecting my space, getting nervous, wouldn't stand still. Now, she will stand still all day without being tied to a rail. Horses act out when they are nervous, high strung, and dangerous. Get a rope halter, a good trainer, and make him work his butt off. A time out pole does wonders, too.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I would not be quite so quick to tell someone to 'throw a horse away at an auction' when it has ridden nicely for 2 months. I would be more inclined to suggest an evaluation and a few lessons with a very experienced horse person. I would also have that person confirm that the horse's saddle fits well, that the girth is comfortable, the bridle and bit fit well. Any horse that is sore or has bad fitting equipment is likely to act up.

Is there a chance that the person that sold you the horse could help you get going in the right direction with it?

I would guess that this horse has given 'warnings' that it was not happy and his rider has 'backed off' of asking for it to complete what was originally asked. It only takes a few of these incidents and a horse can get really convinced that it does not have to do what is asked. Then, they go quickly downhill into a complete spoiled disaster. We see them all of the time. You need to find out why this horse is not riding as well as he did when you got him or another horse you buy and ride will do the same thing.

People need to learn how to 'read' a horse, how to ask a horse to do something and how to follow through and get it done. These are skills that come either with a lot of time and several spoiled horses or come from being 'coached' in the skills of reading horses and good horsemanship. 

A very simple rule is:

1) Never ask a horse to do anything that it is not ready and able to do.

2) Ask in a clear, concise way so that the horse knows exactly what is being asked.

3) Make sure the horse complies and does what you ask.

Good luck.

Cherie


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

kbg7506 said:


> We have had this horse for almost two months and haven't had any problems with him. Overall, he's been VERY good. Then, the other day (after my mom had taken him for a nice long ride), I was cantering and when I went to slow him down, he gave a buck. So I one rein stopped him and then made him continue on at a trot. We went back to the same spot and tried again. He cantered perfectly and then again, when I asked for him to slow down, he bucked twice (the first one seemed to be more of a kick and as soon as I started the one rein stop, he gave a huge buck that almost unseated me and then he stopped). After this, I was a bit shaky so I got off and my mom got back on and she cantered and slowed him four or five times with no problem. A couple days later, we got him tacked up, my mom mounted, flexed both directions and asked for a back up. He backed a few steps and then reared so she brought his head around. Then right after she released his head and asked him to go, he started bucking and tossed her and bolted down the road. After I caught him, we put him on the lead line and she got back on him, flexed, backed up and rode around for twenty minutes with no other problems. I just can't figure out why this is happening all of a sudden. I cant figure out what the two instances have in common that would have triggered this reaction. He had a *vet check and a clean bill of health less than a month ago and his saddle fits perfectly so I know its not pain related*. Nothing has changed in his routine so I can't figure out why he's started this. My question is, what is the best way to break this habit? I don't want him thinking that every time he doesn't like something, he can buck. Its such a dangerous habit and I hate it. Thanks!


 
Question.....what did the vet check include and did you have a pro saddle fitter check the saddle fit?


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

A few things come to mind:

What bit are you riding him in and did you get his teeth checked recently? Did you change bits when you bought him, or did they give you the original bit?

I do suspect mouth/bit related pain- the only times he reacts by bucking is when you pull back to slow him down, or back him up. 

Stifle problems can cause bucking. It is not always obvious either. I know a horse that bucks and his stifle did lock up once. The owners have never noticed that his stifle locks. I'm not sure whether it was "just a one-time event" or that it is still a problem.

This may not be a new issue -he might have had the issue when you bought him. Just because it "suddenly shows up" doesn't mean he hasn't acted like this before. 

The above mentioned horse with stifle issues only bucks once every few months. Unpredictable and dangerous as it is without warning and the rider doesn't see it coming. I think it might be excitement (or feeling good) or related to his stifles, but I don't want to get hurt trying to find out for sure! He is green broke as well. 

I suggest contacting who you bought him from and see if they will take him back. Or you can hire a trainer. Just be prepared- you might end up putting more money into him than what you already paid. 

Bucking is very dangerous. I personally do not like to ride buckers, as it is not worth risking broken bones or worse trying to fix. 

It may be worth having a trainer come and do an evaluation of you and the horse. It could be something obvious (pinched skin in the girth), or pulling too hard on the horse's mouth. How hard did your mom pull on the reins to back him up?

Or it could be that the seller was dishonest and sold you a very green broke horse that already had issues. Or the horse didn't have issues, and this is something you or your mom accidently caused by improper riding/handling. 

It is possible you missed the warning signs that he was unhappy and pushed him too far. In general, most horses warn the rider before bucking, but I've met some who do not and those are the hardest to deal with as you can't see the buck coming. 

You have a choice to make as to whether you want to hire a trainer to help you, or if it is better to send him back to his previous owner (even for free if you have to). A 10,000 dollar hospital bill is probably far more than this horse is worth. 

I would recommend that you and your mom do not ride him without a trainer present. If this is a new issue than every time he gets away with it, it only teaches him to behave badly.


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## kbg7506 (Jun 21, 2013)

Well, first off, I am not giving up easily with this situation. I believe that it can and will be corrected. He is approximately 13 years old. He was rescued 2 years ago from a large horse farm and had never been broke. The trainer who rescued him has been training for many years and used him in a 90 day trainer competition. After his 90 days (which ended up being 100 days) he had several people ride him throughout the summer and also tried a speed show. Then he was put up for sale. He knows his ground work and is very good at it. In fact, right before he bucked my mom off, he had been lunging and doing ground work (yielding fore and hind quarters, backing up, desensitizing, walk trot and cantering both directions on the lunge line, sending exercises, giving to pressure, etc.) for over 30 minutes and had done everything pretty much perfectly. He also lays down for me without hesitation (he also bows and sits which I LOVE). He completely respects both my mom and I on the ground and for the last two months, we haven't had any problems in the saddle (besides normal spooking and SLIGHT hesitation with going in water). I really think you are on to something 4horses, with the teeth thing because another clue is that he is not very accepting of the bit lately. When the vet checked him, he mentioned that he'd be due for a floating relatively soon. So I'm wondering if maybe his teeth are bothering him occasionally with the bit? The vet is coming out again in a few days so I will ask him about this too. But I would still really like some HELPFUL feedback about ways to correct this behavior. I am very attached to this horse already because he really is a very good boy. So I would really appreciate some ideas to correct this problem that do NOT include "selling the horse at an auction". Thanks


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## NaeNae87 (Feb 26, 2013)

Have his teeth done, have a bodyworker come out and check him over (chiro, Bowen, physio, accupuncture, anything...) and just be aware that horses body shapes can change very quickly which in turn will make a previously well fitting saddle turn into a badly fitting saddle. You might need to have a pro come out and fit it again.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

He could have any # of things wrong.... could just be sore from something , or something serious like EPM. Or he could have decided he had had enough of "you people" (in his little walnut sized brain).

I would ask my vet to check him.

Nancy


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

I don't think you need to give up on him either. I do think you need to have him rechecked by a vet or at least his teeth checked. As said before, horses can change physically in a short time. 

With that said, I have another theory. If pain and discomfort is ruled out, the horse could be just testing you. Just like in a herd, they have to figure out their place. They know that the are at the bottom at first. In time, they start to challenge for a higher position. They do it with us(humans) too. Some horses do it right off the bat and some just accept where they are. Usually what I've seen is after one or two months, they start testing or challenging. If you can't or don't put them back in their place or correct them, they just get worse. There probably were some tests that he already did and you let them slide, being novices. You need to be firm and consistent and accept no bad behavior no matter how slight it may be. You probably will want to get someone like a trainer to help you correct this, in person. 

Some say that you should never get off when a horse acts up. I think if you feel unsafe, go ahead. It never does any good to get thrown off and get hurt. If you can stay on and ride it out would be better. Then you can instantly put the horse to work. If you do get off, put the horse to work ASAP. 

What I do when a horse rears or bucks, is first get them to stop rearing or bucking by bringing their head to their side like a one rein stop. Then with their head still to the side, I make them yield their hind end but I also make them move it in a hurry. I then do it the other direction. If they want to act up, they are really going to work their butt off after. Sometimes instead of yielding their butt, I make them either back or go in circles. Then I ask again for what I had asked when they reared or bucked.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## palogal (May 30, 2008)

start with the chiro and see if his back, neck or hips hurt.
If he's really not in pain, find a good trainer. It's hard to suggest how to fix this (at least for me) when we can't see the horse.


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

I think pain is a high probability in this case. Most horses don't just act up for no reason. If he was doing great and all of a sudden starts acting different, than you need to figure out why.

It is easier for a horse to back up than rear or buck. It is also easier to slow down than buck and bolt off. 

The question is what is upsetting him enough that is causing him to bolt/buck/rear? Bolting usually suggests fear/pain (horse wants to run from whatever is scaring him). A calm and happy horse is not a bolting horse. 

I cannot tell you how to handle the horse as I have not seen the horse. The first thing you need to do is figure out why the horse is acting up. Is it fear? is it pain? or is it confusion from poor training?

Most horses have a certain tolerance level, once they are pushed beyond their ability to understand something they will generally throw a tantrum like a 3 yr old child. Most horses will give you 20 warnings before that happens. 

This is why after the vet checks the horse, you should get a trainer. It is very possible you are missing something. Without seeing you and how you handle the horse, no one online can tell you how to handle it.


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