# Advice on pasturing a Stallion with a Gelding



## famousredhead

I need Expert advice on pasturing a gelding and stallion together.
Here is some background info first:


*Gelding:* 15 yr. Old quarter horse. Former Champion racer before being gelded.. Very large and strong. Laid back easy going sweet demeanor. Arrived on property first. Being bigger and stronger he is the big bully.


*Stallion:* 8 yr. Old Paso Fino. Much smaller, but feisty, energetic personality. Arrived 5 months after gelding. Being smaller, he is trying to show he can hold his own & be the little bully.


Both have been pastured separately for all 7 yrs. on the farm. When separated by a double fence they are always seen resting near each other. When separated by a single fence they start to do what I "think" is playing....but maybe it is fighting? It consists of biting, rearing, kicking. But never has there EVER been any damage or injury. It is almost like when kids start out gently punching or slapping. We usually go out and put a stop to it fearing the worse can happen before it progresses further.



There are no other horses on the farm. Just the two boys. Occasionally a neighbor will turn out a mare on the adjacent property.



*Only time they were together in a pasture:* After a storm the fence came down and the mare wandered over to the pasture that housed the stallion...much to his delight. Unknown at the time, another fence also came down where the gelding was pastured and HE wandered over to the other 2. Stallion did what he is suppose to do and the 2 went at it. Eventually the gelding had enough and kept his distance. He eventually came up to the stables unharmed. All 3 were in the same pasture all day. No more trouble ensued as long as the stallion stayed between the gelding and the mare.


Now fences are fixed and the mare is gone for many months now. The two are still separate. Whichever horse is in the smaller pasture, all they do is stay up by the gate ALL DAY LONG and look sad, and unhappy. They refuse to go back down into the small pasture. NOTHING is wrong with that pasture or has changed. We just moved the gate. To be fair to each horse, we switch them out every 3 days. It seems they prefer the larger pasture.


So....To make them happy and make things easier on us, we would like them to live in harmony TOGETHER. So I am asking for advice:


 can the two ever get along
 how do we go about getting them to live in the same pasture peacefully
 will they fight to the death or severe injury
 do we just take a chance and let them go and see what happens?
 Or should we try it out in a paddock with each horse on a line so we can separate them easily and see how it goes?
 

Being herding animals, I just think they would be happier together...am I having wishful thoughts?
Thanks for taking the time to read and respond.


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## maura

I wouldn't do it. 

I would either geld the stallion and then wait 6 - 9 months before turning them out together, or get them each small companion animal to be turned otu with. 

I have only ever known mature stallions to be turned out by themselves, or with mares for pasture breeding. I have never known anyone who successfully turned a stallion out with geldings. It's a pretty high liklihood that the gelding will end up beaten up.


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## TristaJean

I would personally keep a fence between them. I just don't think it's worth taking the chance of either one getting injured.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Speed Racer

I think unless they're raised with geldings, it's a bad idea to try and introduce them to any after they've matured.


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## Country Boy

My Stallion is out with the geldings and a mare who can no longer breed. (long story) he was raised with geldings and the only reason he isn't gelded is because I thought it was "wrong to take off a horsies balls" when i was little and since he was my horse he stayed a Stallion.


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## lilruffian

It is possible to keep stallions together, but very difficult if there is a mare in the midst. If you have one nearby, personalities change instantly.
In nature stallions band together all the time and can live in perfect harmony. But again, there are no girls around to fight over. 
It also depends on the horse's personalities. When i went to a clinic this spring the trainer brought along his stallion and two geldings and penned them all in one and everyone got along fine.
He was asked if he does it often and he said yes, because they are used to it and they are also well trained to have manners. He was perfectly able to work his stallion acoss the fence from the farm owner's strange stallion and had no issues.
It IS possible, but the scenerio and conditions have to be ideal.


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## Janna

My stud is pastured with another stud and geldings 
And they can see and smell mares. It depends on the horses. 
First I got them used to eachother by my cousin and I would go out riding them together. hand grazed them together. Then shared a fence line. Then let them together for supervised visits, and eventually left them. Now my Stud gets along with pretty much any male. the boys do play very rough. Some marks at times but by looking at their facial expression and little movements can tell they're Playing. they will kind of test each other on occasion, but not serious. 
I wouldn't leave them completely alone at first. You said they've shared a fence line, id let then do that for a while, if there's no mares in the mix.. Unless your stud is just aggressive they should be ok.

My stud was used for breeding for 11 years and never met another male horse before I got him. It took Time, and working with them but you'd think they have grown up together now. 
He prefers the company, than to be all alone like some studs are kept. 
Herd animals... He might enjoy being with your gelding. 
My geldings are the dominant ones over the stud.

Friend of mine only had studs. Had 5 pastured together and they acted like geldings together.


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## CLaPorte432

Why not geld the stallion? Is there any real reason that he's still intact?


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## nikelodeon79

Before I bought Royale his interim owner (the one who ended up rescuing him from a bad situation and then giving him to me) did keep him with a bunch of geldings on a property that also had mares (in a different pasture). I think she had him with 3-4 geldings. She is my mentor and what I would term a true expert (though she would argue that everyone is always learning, herself included). She very, very carefully evaluates her horses' personalities and has a total of four pastures that she uses. Each group of horses is very carefully planned and watched for any issues. 

The stud (Royale) had been mostly stall kept prior to that and never really turned out much at all. When she initially got him, she had him in a single pasture by himself but he paced endlessly. She carefully selected a small group of geldings to turn him out with and carefully monitored the situation. There were mares on the property but they were a few pastures over.

Once she got a foal out of him and she had him gelded things were a lot easier to manage. He eventually came to live at my house (all geldings) and his stress level decreased tremendously. He became best buddies with my pony gelding.

IMO, unless the horse is breeding quality and there's a reason to breed him, you'd be better off gelding him, both for your sake and his. Royale turned into a completely different horse once he didn't have mares on the brain all of the time.


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## shaggy

I know from experience its not a good idea to put them out together if its a gelding the stallion has never seen or been around before. When I got my second gelding Blaze, the stallion at the farm as stalled at the time. Well someone(ex trainer calmed her ex husband did it but i didn't believe that for a minute. I think her kids did it and didn't want the blame) let him out of his stall one morning into the field with all geldings. Since my gelding was the newest one he chased him all over and he was still recovering from running thru a barb wire fence. It got dangerous and the ex trainer wouldn't believe me when I told her the stallion was chasing him and he was scared to death. She even watched the stallion spook Blaze while I was turning him out from grooming him and took off with the lead rope still attached. The stallion was chasing him so hard he ran into my moms truck, bounced off and continued to chase my horse. All while the ex trainer stood there and watched. Mentally my horse was wreak. It cause him to founder and he still has a scar on his leg where the stallion bit him. So I wouldn't put the stallion in with the gelding unless you plan to geld him.


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## Cherie

We've pastured a lot of stallions together in the 'off-season' and pasture stallions and geldings together now. I would not keep a 'cycling' mare across the fence as that will raise the testosterone level in the stud.

Big ranches do it all of the time just like they run bulls together doing the off-season. New stallions work it out very quickly and oddly enough, in mixed herds, a gelding is usually the boss -- or at least has been at our place. 

The only requirement we have is that we put them in a big pasture (at least several acres) and have trees or round bales or other things in the middle so they can go 'round and 'round until they sort it out.

A study was done a few years back by one of the big Vet Schools, (Texas A&M I think) went to big ranches and did blood tests in the fall when they turned the studs in together. They started out with normally high Testosterone levels seen in breeding stallions. Within 2-3 days those levels plummeted and were barely above the levels seen in geldings. When mares started cycling around them in the spring, the levels started to climb as did the aggression but was still lower than in stallion kept by themselves.

In 2001 we still had 3 breeding stallions. I had run the two younger studs together all winter with 5 or 6 geldings. They ere 4 or 5 years old then. When mares started coming in to breed, I would put one in the stocks (visible from the pasture) and both studs would stand by the gate. I would go down and catch the one I wanted, breed the mare and put him back in. He would strut around the pasture and really show off. Both did the same thing and I got by with keeping them together all year. They never had an argument or a hair pealed off and an older gelding still got the first feed tub every morning. 

Just like bulls all stay together and buck deer run together until the rut, it is is perfectly normal for studs to run together in the off season. I just would not do it small paddocks.


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## Speed Racer

That's really interesting Cherie, and I can see how it would work with a lot of acreage. I know in the wild, until a stallion breeds, he stays with the other bachelors. 

There's a huge beef cattle operation just down the road from where I live, and they keep all the bulls together as well. When they want one to breed, they put him in with whatever herd of cows they've chosen. Once his duty is done, he goes back out with all the other bulls.


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## waresbear

I could be reading this wrong, didn't the OP say the Paso was gelding 5 months before arriving? Or was it the first gelding, I can't figure that out.


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## Cherie

Arrived 5 months after the gelding arrived -- I think


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## dbarabians

If there are no mares around I do not see why they cannot be turned out together.
As Cherie said most big ranches keep their stallions together during the fall and wnter without any issues.
I have had my stallion attack a gelding after one of the hands did not lock his gate properly.
the gelding was in a different pasture with a ouple of mares. 
The stallion lifted a gate off its hinges (how I do not know} and attacked the attacked the gelding. That means he went through two gates to get to him.
I had a palomino gelding that looked like a zebra with long scratches the lenght of his body.
If there are no mares go ahead and try it out.
just watch them carefully for the first day or so. Shalom


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## bodine16

I have 3 stallions pastured together. One is coming 4, one coming 6 and the old boy is 18 this year. They get along great in fact they are behind a 2 strand slick wire fence with a electric tape as a top 3rd wire (which i seldom have turned on) the younger two play constantly and even the ol'boy gets in on the mayham occasionally. It is truely an enjoyably specticle i get to witness often. 
There is a pecking order as any herd would have though it is enforced and accepted very passivly. I have had geldings and studs together and in point of fact it was a gelding who ended up the "boss". In that instance there were 9 studs and geldings together. Fore the first 3 days i will admit that a few of the tiffs had me worried but after the pecking order was established things calmed down and they basically turned into 2 cells of a single herd. There was no vet bill but a few had a bit of hair missing from trying to stake claim to leadership. The younger bunch seemed to do their own thing in their own group but the did intermingle without continued aggression beyond ears back and a glare when someone crossed that imaginary line we would call respect. 
To further make my point, we had 20+ mares and fillies in the adjoining pasture. I did put up a second barrier fence along the fence line about 10 feet of seperation. No bum sniffing and no touching noses. The barrier fence was a single strand electric wire on the stud side and never once did it need repair. Every day both groups would meet at the fence line. Make all kins of noise as they talked back and forth but this rarely lasted more than 15 to 20 minutes and then all would go back to grazing silence. Even now i have 2 mares only 30 feet from my studs and not a single issue. They talk occasionally but even that is seldom.
For those of you who believe studs will try to kill other male horses i would like to share this thought. Horses are herd animals and as such enjoy companionship. It reduces stress. Mellows or calms them to be able to touch another horse. Play fighting as with dogs or people is natural. They enjoy the distraction. It is also enjoyable to watch! In the wild,stallions not strong enough to claim a herd will band together and you will often find them close to a herd and dominant stallion though they will keep a respectful distance.
If you have a isolated stallion who has become "mean" over the years i would use caution if trying to introduce a companion. He may need some time to adjust to a companion. Reset his social skills. Seperate paddocks with a shared fence may be best to start. But when you are able to put the two or more together in the off breeding season i can assure you that you will see a huge difference in temperment both towards other horses as well as to people. Use caution and keep a close eye on things but do not let the uneducated rambelings of the fearful discourage you from making your studs life so much fuller by offering him companionship. Gelding or other stallion, does not matter. Isolated from female horses they become just horses and we all want to see horses happy. Do not isolate your stallion and then tell people he has a social disorder. Do not fear to try what nature dose. Imagine how grouchy you would become without social interaction and being in a small room most your life because someone feared you may hurt others. Eventually you would become that which eveeryone feared!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

It depends on the horses. As long as there are no cycling mares around, they should be ok together. My stallion Skippy lives with 1 gelding and one weaner colt. He has lived with the gelding since he was weaned and I put any colts in with him when weaning time comes. Uncle Skip will chase them and school them in herd manners but he never hurts anyone. I would not do it if I had mares real close. 

I have an Arab gelding that I would not put in with Skip because he would attack Skip. He was only able to be kept alone, but within sight of the herd, as a stallion. He just didn't want to tolerate another male, gelded or not. Now that he's been gelded for several years, he will tolerate other geldings, I just still wouldn't put him in with Skippy. 

So, best advice, try it and watch them carefully. Maybe fix the pasture so you have some corrals at one end and can separate them at night.


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## dbarabians

Sam cannot be turned out with another male near. He is a very dominate stallion and is rough on the mares I have pastured him with.
Sam broke out of his pen one day and he and Star fought over the fence. They took out a section of barbed wire when I was moving Star to a more secure location. I doubt a hot wire would have stopped them. They ignored my presence on the end of the lead rope. Shalom


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## COWCHICK77

We have a stallion that runs with 30+ head of ranch geldings. By no means is he the dominant one in the pasture and it has never caused an issue. He also was raised in a herd environment and not isolated like some do with stallion/stud prospects. 

Like Cherie said, we run 50+ head of bulls together when not turned out with the cows/heifers. They get along better during the off season together than when they are fighting for breeding rights of in heat cows. Horses are no different.


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## Yogiwick

famousredhead said:


> I need Expert advice on pasturing a gelding and stallion together.
> Here is some background info first:
> 
> 
> *Gelding:* 15 yr. Old quarter horse. Former Champion racer before being gelded.. Very large and strong. Laid back easy going sweet demeanor. Arrived on property first. Being bigger and stronger he is the big bully.
> 
> 
> *Stallion:* 8 yr. Old Paso Fino. Much smaller, but feisty, energetic personality. Arrived 5 months after gelding. Being smaller, he is trying to show he can hold his own & be the little bully.
> 
> 
> Both have been pastured separately for all 7 yrs. on the farm. When separated by a double fence they are always seen resting near each other. When separated by a single fence they start to do what I "think" is playing....but maybe it is fighting? It consists of biting, rearing, kicking. But never has there EVER been any damage or injury. It is almost like when kids start out gently punching or slapping. We usually go out and put a stop to it fearing the worse can happen before it progresses further.
> 
> 
> 
> There are no other horses on the farm. Just the two boys. Occasionally a neighbor will turn out a mare on the adjacent property.
> 
> 
> 
> *Only time they were together in a pasture:* After a storm the fence came down and the mare wandered over to the pasture that housed the stallion...much to his delight. Unknown at the time, another fence also came down where the gelding was pastured and HE wandered over to the other 2. Stallion did what he is suppose to do and the 2 went at it. Eventually the gelding had enough and kept his distance. He eventually came up to the stables unharmed. All 3 were in the same pasture all day. No more trouble ensued as long as the stallion stayed between the gelding and the mare.
> 
> 
> Now fences are fixed and the mare is gone for many months now. The two are still separate. Whichever horse is in the smaller pasture, all they do is stay up by the gate ALL DAY LONG and look sad, and unhappy. They refuse to go back down into the small pasture. NOTHING is wrong with that pasture or has changed. We just moved the gate. To be fair to each horse, we switch them out every 3 days. It seems they prefer the larger pasture.
> 
> 
> So....To make them happy and make things easier on us, we would like them to live in harmony TOGETHER. So I am asking for advice:
> 
> 
> can the two ever get along
> how do we go about getting them to live in the same pasture peacefully
> will they fight to the death or severe injury
> do we just take a chance and let them go and see what happens?
> Or should we try it out in a paddock with each horse on a line so we can separate them easily and see how it goes?
> 
> 
> Being herding animals, I just think they would be happier together...am I having wishful thoughts?
> Thanks for taking the time to read and respond.


You do realize that mare is probably pregnant?

Make sure the fencing is 100% safe and strong. I know things happen when there is a storm but it needs to be as close to perfect and then some.

I am concerned about the mare being adjacent. They can and will find a way to breed. It will also set the stud off with the gelding as you saw.

DO keep in mind even if they are just playing they CAN still hurt each other. If they play as rough as it sounds or injuries start popping up separate may need to be the plan.

Both always being separate isn't ideal but you may be able to make it work.

Why is the stallion a stallion?

If they're fine with a single strand I would just put them in together, stand nearby with a good lunge whip. Two people may be best. Just in case. It's not a bad thing to separate them. Together is ideal but adjacent isn't the end of the world and may be necessary in your situation.

I would recommend gelding the stallion unless there's a really good reason not to.

Keep in mind how risky this can be and if there is ANY hint of any trouble or the mare comes back (talk to your neighbors so you get a heads up) I would separate them immediately. Put the stallion as far away from the mare as possible.

Agree with Cherie- lots of room and obstacles!

Yes "bachelor herds" are common in lots of animals.

It really depends.

DB- good point. If there is a real fight/ruckus you will have a hard time breaking it up and could easily get caught in the middle.


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## JCnGrace

My stallion was raised with a gelding to keep him company but when turned 4 or 5 (been a while) he decided if he couldn't get in with the mares then the gelding would have to do (let your imagination fill in the blanks). When he started trying that then it was time to separate. Being by himself did not make him crazy, he still had other horses (mares & geldings) all around him he just never had contact with them except for when he was breeding. The crazy comes more from being locked in a stall and only coming out for a breeding session in my opinion. He's not the only stallion that I've heard of doing this and I was in fact told by many other stallion owners that I'd need to watch for it. Most of them were surprised he was able to stay out with a gelding for as long as he did.

That stallion has been a gelding for several years now and the gelding that was his companion and boss for those early years still hates him with a passion for what he tried to do and thankfully didn't accomplish. LOL So even though I only have mares & geldings now I still have to keep 2 different herds with Thunder (ex-stallion) in one and Gamble in the other.


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## Yogiwick

Yup my trainer kept the stallion by himself. He was always near other horses, never isolated, and depending on what pastures she was using he'd be in a very large one across from the mares or in a large paddock adjacent to the geldings where they would play over the fence.

Very happy well socialized stallion. Easy to handle and safe.

They just need to be horses or they WILL get crazy! (as with any other horse)


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## squirrelfood

Stallions CAN be socialized. There is no need to keep him separate if there are no mares around. Or even if there are, in many cases. I kept 3 young stallions together in one pasture, with mares on each side of them, and hot tape keeping everyone off the fences. The boys played, sometimes a little rough as boys will do, but no one was ever hurt. I also kept a small jack with my breeding stallion during the winter, and another stallion liked having his 2 year old son for a buddy. Stallions are horses, and CAN live like horses, if a little care is taken.


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