# Differences in Classes?



## regardinghorses (Oct 26, 2007)

What a tough question! The problem is, the requirements not only vary from class to class, they vary between types of shows. Hunter/English classes are different at hunter/jumper shows, stock breed shows like AQHA and APHA, and breed shows just to name a few. 

What I can say definitively is that Huntseat Equitation is judged on the rider. Judges look at form as well as control of the horse (how well it responds with as little aid as possible as well as correct movement). Under saddle classes are judged on the horse. How well it moves, how relaxed it is, how well it responds.

Huntseat and saddleseat are completely different types of saddles and styles of riding. Saddleseat is typically used with gaited horses as well as Arabs and Saddlebreds. The saddle is very flat. The horses have very high head carriage and more upright movement and high knees. The riders have longer stirrups and a more upright position as well. 

Huntseat is the style of riding you see when jumping (but classes are also on the flat). Horses should move out at a good 8-10 mph trot, stretching out with front and back legs so that the back legs at least meet the front hoof prints. Riders have a shorter stirrup length and more a forward position. In a lot of the stock breed shows, horses have a long and low carriage with loose reins. At hunter shows, the horses should be more collected with a higher headset (not as high as dressage) and a steady but light rein contact. 

My experience is mostly with the hunter jumper style, so I can answer more specifically about requirements for those types of shows. However, I did also show 4-H, and the huntseat classes there had a mixture of the AQHA style and the hunter/jumper style. I can tell you that, at least in PA, the hunter/jumper style tended to win out over the AQHA style. 

Hope this helps to at least get the conversation flowing.


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## mell (Sep 5, 2007)

in Aus and NZ the main english events at shows are hacking. its kinda like dressage, however the hardest of the movements is just a flying change, extended/collected trot and canter. and its done out in the open. mainly in a figure 8 pattern and everyone gets really dressed up. not sure if its done in any other countrys, isnt hacking over there just like trail riding?


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

Thanks regarding horses. I really don't understand why the long low headset and loose reins of the aqha style is acceptable in an english classes. Maybe it is so the WP horses can also do english?? It seems ridiculous to me because it is just like WP, but with english tack - what is the point. Oh well   It really does make a pretty picture though. 

It seems to me that here, at the open shows, the judges have shown more favor to the faster paced, more collected, higher neck set (but not too high) of the hunter type horses. 

So is english pleasure the same as hunter under saddle, or is there a definitive difference? Maybe the stock type shows call it english pleasure to make the WP look more acceptable? 

I thought saddle seat was pretty different, but could not remember exactly what it was (not much of it up here). 

Mell, hacking sounds interesting. It sounds more like a blend between lower/mid level dressage and western reining than trail though (minus the spins and sliding stops).


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## jazzyrider (Sep 16, 2007)

it depends on where you show as to how things work. if you do pony club events you have dressage days, showjumping days and less popularly, cross country days. if however you show aside from pony club eg: EFA, they usually have ODE's (one day events) or 3DE (3 day events comrising of all three disciplines)

i cant comment much on hunter etc but in dressage, the lower levels anyway, the horse must be on the bit with the face forming a T and right on the vertical. i suppose as you get up further the head comes up a little and tucks in more.

trot speed is a nice steady forward movement that isnt slow and lazy (like WP) but it also isnt flat chat around the arena. as long as there is that steady forward movement and impulsion, you are ok 

dressage is about training and WORK. the horse has to be working his way around the arena not just plodding around looking like he has little to no cares in the world lol im not bagging western i would just probably get bored with everything going so slow


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## regardinghorses (Oct 26, 2007)

AKPaintLover-I'm not all that familiar with the AQHA or open shows, but at least in 4-H the English Pleasure classes were for the saddleseat riders. That doesn't sound universal, though, since the classes you describe are the WP in English tack. I guess it just varies.


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## diamonr4ever (Jan 29, 2008)

At the apha and aqha shows hunt seat equitation is a pattern where rider and horse are judged. for example the will be 3 cones in a straight line. you'll be on the right side of the cones when you start. do a sitting trot to cone 2. when your at cone 2 halt and back 4 steps. when you're done with backing up do a halt to canter transition on the left lead to cone three. cone three you halt again and do a turn on the haunches facing the judge. the patterns aren't the same always. after the pattern you will do a flat class like hunter under saddle. hunt seat equiation can also be called english equiation or hus equiation.
hunter pleasure is mainly hunter under saddle. a english class judging the horse. it is a flat class where the anouncer says walk, trot, canter,and backup. 
english pleasure is a flat class who wants a traditional english horse to be shown. it is like hunter under saddle but judged differently.
saddle seat is what tennesse walkers and saddlebreds do for example. i don't know much about it.lol
sorry for all the errors in this reply for i am in a hurry, but i hope this helped you.


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## hunterequlover781 (Dec 27, 2007)

There are so many types of english riding.
You have the english pleasure horses (huntseat goes along with this). These horses are judged on whether or not they look like they would be a pleasure to ride. These horses are calm and laid back. You often see western pleasure type horses in these classes.
Then you have the jumpers/eventers. They are more concerned with clearing a jumping round in the most efficient time, accumulating as few faults as possible. They are not judged on their horses movement, but rather their ability to jump high and move quick. Eventers also ride cross country which is jumping natural jumps in an open field or area. They are also judged on time. Lastly, eventers participate in dressage. In dressage, a horse demonstrates a pattern, showing it's grace and beauty. It is juded on collection and control of the horse, along with much more.
Then, you have hunters and equ riders. Hunters is judged on how a horse carries itself around a course. It is very controlled and horses are expected to perform as if they are on the hunt field. The horses tend to be very calm and laid back. Horses should move long and low.
There is also saddle seat which I really don't know much about.


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## twodozenroses (Mar 3, 2008)

Can't say i have heard of any of those and i ride english lol


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## Kyani (Apr 30, 2007)

Hehe, American English classes are so different to anywhere else...


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

Kyani said:


> Hehe, American English classes are so different to anywhere else...


How so?


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## Kyani (Apr 30, 2007)

We just...don't have anything like you do. Nothing like HUS or english pleasure or whatever it is that require them to go slow and steady. Pretty much everything is, in theory, ridden in a 'standard' dressage or showjumping seat. We have equitation but it's basically dressage without judging the horse.
Plus we have Mountain and Moorland, hunter classes (a type of horse, not a style fo riding) etc.
And no one does saddleseat in the UK!


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

I know, all the American classes confuse me!
In AUS we have...
Hack - Very much based on dressage, although with a slightly higher headset. All work is carried out very collected, unless extension is asked for. Judged on the horse.
Hunter - Designed originally I think to judge how a horse would hold up over a day's hunting. a longer, lower frame, and a much more forward trot and ground covering canter. form is judged over a few small jumps also. Judged on the horse.
Pleasure - The shows I have been too, pleasure has been done one handed, in a snaffle bit, not artificial aids allowed. designed to judge which horse would be a pleasure to ride, literally. judged on the horse.
Rider classes - Similar to a hack class, only the rider is being judged.
Equitation - similar to your hunters? Sort of like dressage over jumps. Judging the rider, their position, approach, horsemanship etc. also there are tasks to be performed within the round and you are marked on these also. i.e. certain number of strides between a combination, counter canter, trot into a specific fence, halt between cones after round.
And then Showjumping - I think the same as your jumpers. Fastest/cleanest round wins.

There are many other classes for different types of shows, i.e. working stock horse and time trial for ASH shows, Arabian stock horse and costume for Arab shows, but the ones above are mostly what you would find at an open show here in AUS  

See why your classes confuse me!!


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

If you would like to learn about Saddleseat, I highly suggest going to this website. 

http://regaljada.tripod.com/saddlese...ion/index.html

I can show you pictures if you would like of our horses(we ride saddleseat), or if you go in the classifieds section under the Saddlebred Rescue Topic, nearly all the horses in that topic are being ridden saddleseat. 

I LOVE Saddleseat. As many Dressage riders have told me (who started Saddleseat and "converted") "If you can ride Saddleseat, you can ride anything."


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## Jrchloe (Dec 17, 2007)

Kyani people in the UK do Saddle Seat. A current reserve world grand champion Saddle Seat Saddlebred was imported from the UK and there is a Great Britain Saddle Seat Equitation Team that shows in the World Cup every 2 years. So you just don't know what you are talking about.

Saddle Seat riding is an English style of riding (as are Hunt Seat and Dressage), but it is a uniquely American style of riding used primarily on , Morgan horses, American Saddlebred horses, and Arabians.

The ultimate goal in Saddle Seat riding is a truly thrilling performance. A saddle seat horse should be thrilling to watch; extremely elegant, classy, and stylish. Many casual spectators watching a truly good Saddle Seat performance may think the horse is about to burst with excitement, but the well-trained Saddle Seat horse is actually very responsive and comfortable to ride, like a finely tuned sports car.

Saddle Seat riding is about animation. It is about a high head carriage with an arched neck, and lots of "action" or high-stepping. The canter should be very collected and slow, with the appearance of a rocking horse. 

Many American Saddlebred horses are trained to do five gaits- the walk, trot, and canter, plus the slow gait and the rack (which is an extremely smooth four-beat gait performed "at speed").

Saddle Seat riding is done "on the flat" meaning that no jumping is involved. Horses are most often shown at the three gaits (walk, trot and canter), but classes are also available for five-gaited horses. Horses are shown in many different divisions, from the relaxed and mannerly Pleasure classes to the thrilling performances in the Park classes. Saddle Seat exhibitors range from young children to adult exhibitors. Suitable horses are available for novice riders as well as experienced ones seeking a challenge.

Here is a wikipedia article that is very good:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddle_seat

Lady Dreamer I am the host of the Saddle Seat Equitation website so thanks for thinking of my site.


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## TipTop (Mar 2, 2007)

The one thing I noticed is that stock breeds tend to call hunter pleasure english pleasure. We show Morgans and there is a distinct difference between hunter pleasure and english pleasure classes. Our english pleasure classes are always saddleseat attire and use a cutback saddle that allows better movement of the shoulders and hunter pleasure classes wear hunt attire and use a hunt saddle.

Since you are familiar with western pleasure classes then you probably know that depending on the horse and their attitude would depend on what class you entered them in within the specific division. I am speaking about like whether you would show them in an amateur, open, ladies, youth, junior etc. class.

As someone explained equitation classes are all about the rider and has nothing to do with the horse.

If you are familiar with youtube you can enter saddleseat and get some great saddleseat videos.


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## Kyani (Apr 30, 2007)

Jrchloe said:


> Kyani people in the UK do saddle seat. A current reserve world grand champion saddle seat Saddlebred was imported from the UK and there is a Great Britain saddle seat Equitation Team that shows in the World Cup every 2 years. So you just don't know what you are talking about.


Sorry, Jrchloe. Perhaps what I should have said is that it's very uncommon in the UK. I, personally, have never seen anyone ride saddleseat, nor do I know or know of anyone who has ever tried it. That's all I meant - it was a bit all-emcompassing of me to say 'no one', I'll agree, but it's true that it isn't a popular sport in the UK. For example, I know more people who have ridden sidesaddle or tried jousting that saddleseat, and most horsepeople I know have never heard of the discipline.

I think it's a bit rude to tell people they 'just don't know what they are talking about'. Admittedly I DIDN'T know the stuff you explained about the British team etc, but that doesn't mean I'm ignorant about the entire discipline.


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## Jrchloe (Dec 17, 2007)

I apologize if I came off as rude. But you also made it sound like everyone in the UK was too good for saddle seat just so you know. But I want to be friends with everyone so its all good.


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## Kyani (Apr 30, 2007)

No problem. I was just a little taken aback because that's not what I meant at all - I was merely commenting on how it's not common here, Most people from the US don't realise this. (and it kinda bugs me that it's classed as 'english' riding)


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## TipTop (Mar 2, 2007)

Kyani, what would you consider saddleseat if not english riding? I guess maybe it is just either the breed or discipline you are in. With morgans if you meet someone and ask them what discipline they do they would either say hunt or english. You know that english means saddleseat or they would just say saddleseat instead of english.


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## Kyani (Apr 30, 2007)

English, I see as dressage/showjumping/XC etc. Anything that uses a basic english saddle or one of its modifications and based around the english 'seat'. the US 'hunt seat' style would come under this too.

Saddleseat is so radically different - both in tack and rider position - it just bugs me to see it classed as 'english'. That's no slight on it, of course, it's just a classification that bugs me, no matter how 'correct' it may be.


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## Jrchloe (Dec 17, 2007)

I like to consider saddle seat as an american form of riding. It was created in the plantations and the plantation owners going to town. The only reason why I would think saddle seat is considered english is because theres no horn.


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

Does it bug you also that Americans speak "English" as well. The differences are very great. I am just joshing you, Kyani. I knew what you were going for. I will admit it bugs me sometimes. "Southern" is what paeple spake dun hare. 

JrChloe, I know you from Trot and MS, so when I saw this I immediately knew a good resource to turn.


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