# Snaffle VS. Bitless on the trail



## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

I think he's giving you conflicting advice. If you can be as harsh or easy in a snaffle as you can bitless, then what's the difference?

Your horse needs a good solid whoa. If you have no brakes, it doesn't matter what tack you're in. You're horse can run off in a snaffle or bitless.

FWIW tons of endurance riders go bitless and in the hours and hours they ride when doing a long run they are in a much higher probability of getting into a mess than a regular rider.

I ride my horse in both (not at once) and we solo trails without issue.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DixieKate (Oct 16, 2012)

DancingArabian said:


> I think he's giving you conflicting advice. If you can be as harsh or easy in a snaffle as you can bitless, then what's the difference?
> 
> Your horse needs a good solid whoa. If you have no brakes, it doesn't matter what tack you're in. You're horse can run off in a snaffle or bitless.
> 
> ...


My ultimate goal with her is to condition her for competitive trail riding. And she has awesome breaks. Breaks unlike anything I've ever had before on a horse. When we went to grab her today in the pasture, she started walking off and he said whoa and she stopped and waited for the halter. When I was riding her today, she went from a canter to a stop on "whoa" with no pulling on the reins at all. The reason I started using a bitless was because the horse I was riding would fight the bit, and I thought I may be heavy handed. I've grown a lot this past year as a horse-woman and I'm learning new things every day. I know that it is MY error to be heavy handed, and I have to improve there, which I feel that I have done a great deal of this past year. 

A horse that I was riding earlier this year was pretty green and I had been using a bitless with her all along. We hit the trails, and she was doing well, but she spooked at something, and I completely lost control of her, to the point that even the one rein emergency stop wouldn't work, because she was just going forward with her head turned. 

The horse I just bought is COMPLETELY different than that horse mentioned, but I feel like any horse is still a potential danger. I would like to keep using a bitless, but do you think it would be a good idea to take some time for her and I to get used to each other before hitting the trails with a bitless. I've only ridden her 4 times so far.


----------



## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

I think what he means is, just because its a bit does not mean it has to be harsh. You make it what it is. And if it were me, I would probably use what she is used to if it works.


----------



## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Personally since I trail ride solo pretty much always I think a good, trusting relationship is important. I think it's a good idea to develop a working relationship and bond with her some. You want her to look to you for leadership.

If you can ride with other people though and she's good with groups I'd go for it.

Be sure she likes the type of bitless you go with. I use a hackamore - my horse freaked out when I tried a cross under bitless!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DixieKate (Oct 16, 2012)

The one I have is pretty much like a sidepull. I'm excited to take her home and build a bond with her. Even after 4 rides, she looks at me like she recognizes me and she has responded better to me each time we ride. I'm so excited to see how things turn out. I'm hoping to do a trail with a friend this weekend. I've actually never been on a real trail ride alone. When I'm alone, I usually ride around in the pasture (not with other horses, of course) and in the arena. Any tips for trail riding alone?


----------



## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Sure 

Wear a helmet
Tell people at least the general direction of where you're going and how long you think you will be
Carry your cell phone ON YOU - not on your horse. If you and the horse separate you need to be able to call for help
If you're concerned about the horse running off and getting lost put an ID tag somewhere that people can see
When its hunting season wear the ugly neon stuff. I wear bells too
If there might be dogs or other animals that lose a threat, carry a weapon . Wasp spray is safer than pepper spray.


And have fun!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

He is totally right about bits and bitless being just as harsh as each other. At the end of the day, a snaffle is an inanimate piece of metal, and a bitless is an inanimate piece of leather. What turns them into tools to guide the horse is the hands of the rider using them, and that is what decides if they are going to be soft or hard. You can do just as much damage to the horse in a bitless as you can in a snaffle, if you ride like a moron.


----------



## pony gal (Mar 11, 2012)

I've been riding my 2 mares with a bitless bridle on trails for several yrs. I have a gelding that I ride in a full cheek snaffle, but hope to get him into a bitless next yr. When I started using the bitless on the mares, I ground drove them and worked them in the round pen first. Then for awhile I used a headstall that had snaps on it. So I would take a bit along in my saddle bag, so I'd have it in case I wanted to switch back. You can still do a one rein stop with the bitless if the need be.


----------



## NeuroticMare (Jan 8, 2012)

Mine goes in her sidepull on the trail, usually. I use it for jumping and XC too, only use her bit for dressage because I have to! My mare really loves her sidepull (her nose/mouth are pink so she gets sunburned in the summer and I think bits irritate her) and I haven't really ever had control problems with it.


----------



## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

I have been riding my now 10yr. mare without a bit since i got her at 3yr.
At first I did alot of work in the round pen with her, I wanted to make sure she understood the whoa, wanted her to back/turn. After that I rode her out.....I have never had a problem with her bolting, spooking crazy and have always had control with no bit. This fall on a trail ride with about 20 riders I was in the middle, the girl behind me was on this huge paint gelding and he kept walking close up behind us, my mare is used to that but has never kicked another horse too close. We're riding along, i hear a commotion behind me....I turn and look and this girls face is two feet from mine and I can't see her horse's head or neck LOL he had tripped and his head/neck right between my mare's back legs under her! Thank goodness I did lots of work to gain her and my trust in each other! She gave a little jump ahead to get him out from under her but by that time the horse in front had stopped and she got close enough the horse booted her in the head.....my poor girl didn't know what to do LOL she spun to the left and I lost my balance and very slowly slide off the side of her right by her front feet......she stopped and looked down at me LOL All I can say thank goodness she didn't panick where I think alot of horses would have, she didn't try to bolt or run off but just stood there with her head down at me. After that the other horse stayed way back from us LOL 
I have cantered in groups and never had her run away on me, I can pull back a little and she will slow down.....I think if you did alot of work with your horse first before taking out on the trail and you know they will stop when you ask it will work out.....keep us posted on how it goes.


----------



## DixieKate (Oct 16, 2012)

Thank you for the advice everyone. I feel like because she is such a light horse, it will be easy to get her used to the bitless. She's lived in this one place for her entire life, with the exception of 1 year when she was 2-3, so I'm worried she might have a hard time adjusting. She's been in pasture with her babies too  She'll have new friends but since I've never bought and moved a horse before, I have NO idea what to expect. I bring her home in the morning tomorrow, and I'm going to spend all day leading her around and introducing her to all the horses and the property so she can have a calm day of new stuff. 

Thunderspark, when you say "a lot of work" how much is a lot? Based on some of the horses I've worked with, each horse learns differently and at a different speed. If I do groundwork and she's where I want her, and then we do arena work and she's where I want her, I feel like that doesn't necessarily mean that how she is in the arena will depict how she is on the trails. Trails have way scarier things than arenas do. I think I'll work with her in the bitless in the arena, but use a bit on our first ride, since she's never been ridden in anything else. Once I get the feel for her on the trail once or twice, and we get really comfortable in the arena, I'll hit the trails with the bitless, probably bring the other bridle too just in case. I'll definitely keep you guys updated. 

Probably not a good idea to ride the first day at a new place? I have all weekend off, so she'll be coming home tomorrow morning, and I'll be there all day. Then I'll be there for a few hours Friday through Sunday. My plan is get her to where she's semi-comfortable before riding.


----------



## LesandLily (Oct 8, 2012)

I think that WAY more important than what device (bit, mechanical Hackamore, bitless bridle, bosal etc.) is how much communication you have with your horse and what device you use for communication. A big part of that is what is the horse used and do you REALLY want to retrain it?

I had a Morgan mare that I was having all kinds of problems with riding her in a very mild D Snaffle. This was back before I did much training and this mare was sold to me very broke...and she was, pack horse, trail rides, parades you name it she had done it...but that was not what I was experiencing. So I called the owner that originally trained her and asked for help. He suggested riding her in a mechanical hackamore as that was what she had been trained in. What a difference. Suddenly she was a light responsive truly broke horse as she knew and was comfortable with how we were now communicating. 

Could I have retrained my mare to a bit? I am sure it could have been done but not really worth the effort. If you truly want to only ride bitless there is nothing wrong with that and if you have communication and control with it then there is nothing wrong with trail riding in it. However, you may have to take some time getting her used to communicating with you in it and is it worth the effort. If she is soft and supple, light and responsive in a bit I would use that and not worry about retraining. However, if she is not and you run into problems on the trail and she really wants to bolt, a snaffle or any other type of bit won't keep it from happening. I have seen lots of horses bolt in a high port curb bit which has way more "bite" than a snaffle and the horse paid no attention to it.

The key is using a device for communication and learning to communicate...not about what device. 

Cheers!
Les


----------



## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

DixieKate said:


> Thank you for the advice everyone. I feel like because she is such a light horse, it will be easy to get her used to the bitless. She's lived in this one place for her entire life, with the exception of 1 year when she was 2-3, so I'm worried she might have a hard time adjusting. She's been in pasture with her babies too  She'll have new friends but since I've never bought and moved a horse before, I have NO idea what to expect. I bring her home in the morning tomorrow, and I'm going to spend all day leading her around and introducing her to all the horses and the property so she can have a calm day of new stuff.
> 
> Thunderspark, when you say "a lot of work" how much is a lot? Based on some of the horses I've worked with, each horse learns differently and at a different speed. If I do groundwork and she's where I want her, and then we do arena work and she's where I want her, I feel like that doesn't necessarily mean that how she is in the arena will depict how she is on the trails. Trails have way scarier things than arenas do. I think I'll work with her in the bitless in the arena, but use a bit on our first ride, since she's never been ridden in anything else. Once I get the feel for her on the trail once or twice, and we get really comfortable in the arena, I'll hit the trails with the bitless, probably bring the other bridle too just in case. I'll definitely keep you guys updated.
> 
> Probably not a good idea to ride the first day at a new place? I have all weekend off, so she'll be coming home tomorrow morning, and I'll be there all day. Then I'll be there for a few hours Friday through Sunday. My plan is get her to where she's semi-comfortable before riding.


What I mean by "a lot of work" is I spent alot of time just riding in the round pen, getting her used to my cues with the biteless bridle, I did alot of desensitzing with her (she would spook at everything!) and just spent time with her grooming her and us getting to know each other. She has turned out to be such a fantastic trail horse, I help alot of friends out with their young ones on their first few trail rides because she is so relaxed now and I think spending the amount of time with her really helped us bond.


----------



## DixieKate (Oct 16, 2012)

LesandLily said:


> I think that WAY more important than what device (bit, mechanical Hackamore, bitless bridle, bosal etc.) is how much communication you have with your horse and what device you use for communication. A big part of that is what is the horse used and do you REALLY want to retrain it?
> 
> I had a Morgan mare that I was having all kinds of problems with riding her in a very mild D Snaffle. This was back before I did much training and this mare was sold to me very broke...and she was, pack horse, trail rides, parades you name it she had done it...but that was not what I was experiencing. So I called the owner that originally trained her and asked for help. He suggested riding her in a mechanical hackamore as that was what she had been trained in. What a difference. Suddenly she was a light responsive truly broke horse as she knew and was comfortable with how we were now communicating.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the lovely advice. It makes a lot of sense, and that is what I was thinking about. My trainer (who is really just an older friend who I used to take lessons from, and who has kind of taken me on as an apprentice to teach me her ways) she's a big natural horsemanship lady. She's a bit fan of using bitless and getting the horses to be as responsive as possible. The man I bought this mare from is a breeder, and trains reining horses. When I think about what it means to be "as responsive as possible" I think of this horse I just bought, because man is she sensitive! 

I've used a snaffle in the 4 times I've ridden her, and I was very aware of my hands, because I had this concern that I was going to be too heavy handed. He noticed that and kept saying, you aren't going to hurt her, if you have to use the reins to get her to do what you're asking her, then use them, that's what they're for! She did not head toss or chomp on the bit or anything like the horse I was leasing did (which is what sparked me to go bitless in the first place) 

She does like to go fast though, and as far as what I was using the bit/reins for, was to keep her trot nice and smooth, because she wanted to canter, and then when we finally did canter, she wanted to gallop, so I used to reins to slow down her speed a little. She listens very well, and I'm still trying to use as little bit as possible. She needs no reins for the turns and stops, but it is to keep her in the proper gait and speed within the gate that I found myself using the reins for. 

I'm open minded, and I like to hear different opinions about stuff, especially horses, because there are no 2 people who have the exact same ideas about how horses should be cared for/ridden/trained/etc...

When I first learned about bitless bridles, I thought, awesome, now I can be nicer to my horse! I started using a mechanical hackamore, and found it was great for stopping, but not so much for turning, so I did more research, and decided to go for a sidepull/bridle. Works awesome for turns, but didn't work as well for stops. (with the horse I was leasing) 

Like a few of you have said, you can be light and supple in a bit. I think that's what I need to perfect. I'm getting there, but is a horseman/woman ever perfect? No way! We all learn new things every time we ride, and every time we read something new. 

It makes sense to me that a snaffle would be best to use with her (for now) because that's what she's been doing for the past 9 years. I know sometimes horses like to have something to "play with" to keep their mind off the spooky stuff in the woods, and I wonder if taking the bit away would make her nervous. 

Knowing me, as time goes on, I will want to try new things, and as we get more comfortable with each other, we can experiment a little more. For now, I think it's probably best to ride her with what she's used to. Especially since I'm taking her from the home she's lived in for the last 6 years. 

I really appreciate all the input, keep it coming if you have something to say!


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Performance in an arena or round pen may not be matched by performance on a trail or around other horses. I have a gelding whose goal in life seems to be taking care of his rider. My daughter will only ride Trooper, because she trusts him - and he adores her, as best I can tell. She can get away with almost anything.

OTOH, my mare is a sweetheart in an arena. She accepts the fencing as a control. On the trail, she is usually very well mannered. But if you get her going fast, particularly around another horse, then her inner Secretariat kicks in, and she thinks she is at the Belmont. She wants to win, and she wants to win BIG! She becomes intoxicated with speed. But in an arena, she'll cantered a nice, relaxed canter side-by-side with another horse without question.

A mechanical advantage to a bit is that it is closer to the tip of the nose, and gives you more leverage to turn the nose or to pull it down. At a minimum, I'd learn about a horse's personality on the trail WITH a bit, and only then decide if going bitless makes sense. I think it would be dangerous with my mare, but fine with our Appy gelding.


----------



## montcowboy (Nov 11, 2012)

ive manage to have been ran off with on about any bit. or lack of bit made to man..lol. snaffle bits are great.i start every horse in one. then depending on the horse depends on what they move into for neck reinging stopping and keeping in check. all my personal horses but one are in training hackamores.love them. got plenty of stop when the horse is use to them. most horses ive trained get bored with a snaffle and tend to start to fight it at times. so i find thats the time i move them on to something else. love the topic.enjoyed the read..ride safe everyone


----------



## Ironless Horse (Aug 15, 2012)

A good way to transition a horse from bitted to bitless is to use a type of bitless bridle that can be fitted underneath the bitted bridle. The "Q" Bitless Rope Bridle would work. www.bitlessropebridle. Use 2 sets of reins, each one attached to the respective bridle. This will allow you to switch between bitted and bitless by simply dropping one rein and picking up the other. This will allow you to ride bitless and allow your horse to learn. You can have access to the bit by dropping the bitless rein and picking up the bitted one. In many cases the horse will prefer the bitless and will learn very quickly, and the rider can ween themselves off the bit.


----------



## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

LesandLily said:


> I think that WAY more important than what device (bit, mechanical Hackamore, bitless bridle, bosal etc.) is how much communication you have with your horse and what device you use for communication. A big part of that is what is the horse used and do you REALLY want to retrain it?


^^^^^This

All my horses are trail horses; two of whom I have owned since they were coming three year olds. One is 18+, and the 25.

The 25 yr old was broke for trail in a low port curb bit and I've stuck with that all these years.

The 18 yr old was in a hackamore when I bought him and the Seller said "he hates bits". I tried changing him, I even used a three ounce sweet bit to no avail.

He is inherently unruly and disrespectful but he listens so well in the hackamore that I stopped trying to re-invent the wheel about a month after I bought him.

Snotface that he is, he will bear down and stay focused when he has to. He saved my husband's butt on a narrow cliff side trail along a 40' drop-off, when we lived in SoCal. My husband can't ride - it was all on the horse in the hackamore - lol lol lol

"If it works, don't fix it"


----------



## corgi (Nov 3, 2009)

Each horse is different..you just need to find what works for yours. I only ride in a bitless halter. I even do competitive trail rides bitless. My horse is a retired polo horse and I believe that years of that sport may have taught her how to grab on to the bit and run with it. The only time she ever bolted with me was in a snaffle about a month after I bought her. I decided to try bitless with her and she is amazing. The other day we were on the trail and she spooked (still trying to figure out why...she is not spooky so whatever it was, it must have been scary). She did the whole "spin and bolt" move but I had her in control before she could take 2 strides.


----------



## DixieKate (Oct 16, 2012)

So I brought her home yesterday, and gave her the day to get used to everything, and then went out today to ride. I had a friend with me who is a semi-non-horsey person because she likes just to hang out and brush them but has only had a few lessons worth of riding experience. I rode Lakota for a while, and she was doing well for first time in the arena (she had been ridden in an indoor arena) so the outdoor one had lots of stimulus that she isn't used to. I used a snaffle with her today, and I'm glad I did, because at first she seemed to be seeing how much she could get away with, not using those breaks she has and trying to go faster than what I asked of her. After we had a little "you move when and where and how I tell you to, not how you want to" moment after she broke into a full gallop at my cue to lope and cut through the middle of the arena...She was perfect. Very very well behaved, and responding to those leg cues like she did when I rode her before I brought her home. After we got some of her energy out, I led my friend around on her (don't worry she was wearing a helmet) We walked out of the arena, and around the property a little bit for a change of scenery. We walked through a pasture and around a lake and down a little trail, and she was wonderful. 

Sunday morning, I'm taking her on her first real trail ride with me and a friend and we'll see how she does. The man who had trained her doesn't seem to think ground work is important if she rides well, but I enjoy ground work, and I think it is really important that they know you're the boss, even when you're on the ground. I'm excited to teach her some ground work that I have done with my leased horse and make our bond even stronger. 

Overall, I think I'm going to stick with the snaffle for a while, until we have a better bond. I'm so happy with her though! When I walked up to the pasture I whistled and made kissy noises and she looked up and came right up to me  She's such a good horse already, I can't wait to see what we become once we build that bond.


----------



## DixieKate (Oct 16, 2012)

Also, here's a couple pictures just for fun! :clap:


----------



## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

I have yet to really see or read anything that leads me to believe bittless is the way to go. There is nothing you can do with a bittless bridle that you couldnt also due with a bit. The reverse is not true. And the simple fact is you have more leverage with a bit. So while in some cases there arnt disadvantages to bittless there simply arnt any advantages that make it worthwhile to give up the added emergency brakes. Yes I know people ride in halters and a rope, but that horse could be rode in a bit also.
The Bitless and hackamores you see on endurance rides are there to help the horse eat and drink , even then many riders dont go to the hackamore till they have about 25 miles into the event. Basically the eating and drinking is pretty much the only advantage I see.


----------



## LesandLily (Oct 8, 2012)

She is very cute!!! What is that weird saddle on her back? Where do you tie your rope onto????  :wink::wink:

Have fun with her!

Cheers!
Les


----------



## DixieKate (Oct 16, 2012)

LesandLily said:


> She is very cute!!! What is that weird saddle on her back? Where do you tie your rope onto????  :wink::wink:
> 
> Have fun with her!
> 
> ...


haha, it's an australian saddle. Since my bit and bridle haven't come yet, I had to borrow a friend's and she has a parelli bridle that has an extra rope so I was like, dang I don't have anything to tie this to...so I just made an extra set of reins and tied the end to the halter. I'm going to be investing in some saddle bags for trail riding, since that's where I'd be keeping my rope. 

For all the skeptics out there, australian saddles are SO COMFY! They cradle you and make you feel so safe, and they are apparently very nice for long trails, which I'll be able to confirm after this weekend. 

The woman who I have been leasing from said, I never use this saddle, so if it fits you, you can have it. It's a very nice one, and it fits my tiny butt perfectly. Just happens to fit my horse well too.


----------



## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

I have most of my riding in Aussies, try before you buy saddle bags and stuff. Often things just dont work. I have tried several different ones.


----------



## LesandLily (Oct 8, 2012)

DixieKate said:


> haha, it's an australian saddle. Since my bit and bridle haven't come yet, I had to borrow a friend's and she has a parelli bridle that has an extra rope so I was like, dang I don't have anything to tie this to...so I just made an extra set of reins and tied the end to the halter. I'm going to be investing in some saddle bags for trail riding, since that's where I'd be keeping my rope.
> 
> For all the skeptics out there, australian saddles are SO COMFY! They cradle you and make you feel so safe, and they are apparently very nice for long trails, which I'll be able to confirm after this weekend.
> 
> The woman who I have been leasing from said, I never use this saddle, so if it fits you, you can have it. It's a very nice one, and it fits my tiny butt perfectly. Just happens to fit my horse well too.


I figured that...I have a friend who has one and they are super comfy...I just can't get used to the feeling of those paddles against my legs. The one I rode in was probably too small for me. I own enough saddles...if I brought another one home my wife would probably kill mee.  Unless I bought another horse....hmmm. :twisted:


----------



## blkgryphon (Jan 7, 2008)

*I do everything bitless, with all my horses*

I've been on more than one runaway horse wearing harsh bits in their mouths (horses not trained or ridden previously by me). I've also been on my own horses in very soft side pulls or cross-under type bitless bridles (I prefer the Nurtural brand one) and had ALL HECK BREAK LOOSE, with the horse having every excuse to bolt, and I have been able to stop my horses with no difficulty once I gathered up my wits enough to take up the reins. My opinion, therefore, is that when something goes wrong, your horse stopping for you is entirely going to depend upon these two factors: training, and whether or not your horse trusts your leadership. 

I personally believe that you can do absolutely anything bitless if your horse is trained to be soft, light (not the same thing as soft) willing and responsive. Some would argue that a horse well-trained to a bitless bridle is safer out on the trail than one in a bit, as the bit applied harshly in an emergency situation (we might end up pulling pretty hard if we are startled or panicked) can actually add to the horse's fear and make the situation worse.

I can tell you that a friend of mine had a horse who was a BAD bolter, and she was riding in a simple snaffle. She was thinking about switching to a "stronger" bit, and I convinced her to try going bitless instead. Guess what? Her horse doesn't bolt through her hands anymore. 

Just my two cents worth!

: )

Susan K


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Well, I've ridden a number of bolts bitless...and I'd prefer a bit. When a horse stretches out, a side pull rides up on the face, and you are trying to get control from the midpoint (or higher) of the horse's head. With a bit, it won't ride up any higher than the mouth, and that gives a mechanical advantage to controlling the nose, and the nose controls the head, and the head controls the body - most of the time.

Also, not all horses are equal. Not all horses are equally willing to listen, even if they are well trained. My gelding could easily be ridden bitless on the trail. I wouldn't advise it on my Arabian mare. Two different horses. Two different personalities. Two different solutions.

And bits do not control thru pain. They control thru mechanical advantage and thru communication, and a harsher bit allows your attempt at communication to get past the background noise of a horse's fear. IMHO.


----------



## blkgryphon (Jan 7, 2008)

There are also differences in bitless bridles. I've been on horses I wouldn't trust in a softy sidepull, but the Nurtural bitless bridle I ride in has plenty of stopping power. I put one on a BIG draft cross with a neck like a bull who was pulling his rider all over the place, and he responded extremely well to the Nurtural -- was way easier to stop. I have no problem with people riding in a bit if they have good hands, as I totally agree that it's the ride who makes a bit "harsh" or not. However, I have never, ever had a problem riding bitless -- and my morgan is a very hot, spooky horse by nature. I've just seen a number of "problem" horses settle down when the bit was taken out of the equation, but I agree with you that people should always do what they feel comfortable and safe with, as long as it doesn't harm the horse.


----------



## montcowboy (Nov 11, 2012)

there are pros and cons to everything. i part on the bittless versuses a hackamore .. i know hackamores. not to spell..but from years and years of riding them. not every horse i train turns into a hackamore horse. as far as i have seen 80 percent or up of a horse throwing the head. opening mouth. some run aways are purely the fault of a bit.yes.some bits are very harsh.controls on pain and only pain. some bits are less harsh.some arent harsh at all. snaffle bit.the least harsh bit you can ride in. once you go to a bit. solid mouth peace curved shank bit. you lose side pull. you lose head setting ability and depending on the port in how harsh that bit is. good topic.great discussion. always interests me on how many different ways there are to the same place with a horse. part of the fun i think..ride safe everyone..and remember. you can make a horse bleed from the mouth with a harsh bit in heavy hands..


----------



## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

LesandLily said:


> I figured that...I have a friend who has one and they are super comfy...I just can't get used to the feeling of those paddles against my legs. The one I rode in was probably too small for me. I own enough saddles...if I brought another one home my wife would probably kill mee.  Unless I bought another horse....hmmm. :twisted:


I Love love love my Aussie saddle. I have an endurance one and it is smaller and much lighter than the regular ones. Those paddles (polys) saved my butt more than once when Hunter bucked and another time when he decided to turn 90 degrees at a canter lol.

I have a barefoot bitless bridle which I wanted to start trying to use again. When we first broke Hunter it was all I used. Alas he is one smart cookie and figured out that if he held his head a certain way he could just push through the pressure from the bridle and render it useless.


----------



## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

blkgryphon said:


> I've been on more than one runaway horse wearing harsh bits in their mouths (horses not trained or ridden previously by me). I've also been on my own horses in very soft side pulls or cross-under type bitless bridles (I prefer the Nurtural brand one) and had ALL HECK BREAK LOOSE, with the horse having every excuse to bolt, and I have been able to stop my horses with no difficulty once I gathered up my wits enough to take up the reins. My opinion, therefore, is that when something goes wrong, your horse stopping for you is entirely going to depend upon these two factors: training, and whether or not your horse trusts your leadership.
> 
> I personally believe that you can do absolutely anything bitless if your horse is trained to be soft, light (not the same thing as soft) willing and responsive. Some would argue that a horse well-trained to a bitless bridle is safer out on the trail than one in a bit, as the bit applied harshly in an emergency situation (we might end up pulling pretty hard if we are startled or panicked) can actually add to the horse's fear and make the situation worse.
> 
> ...


I agree totally! What it boils down to is the relationship you have with your horse, how much time you have put into them and the trust you both have.......I would like to train my 3 1 /2yr. old in a biteless too, he is just getting started under saddle and I work with him in the round pen with his halter/bareback pad and a friend works with him with a bit/saddle....he's very responsive with his halter.....eventually we will take him out after winter....


----------



## montcowboy (Nov 11, 2012)

just a quick dumb question.whats the difference between a hackamore and a bitless??


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

This is a bitless bridle, but it isn't a hackamore:










Works fine for some purposes, but it doesn't give you control of the nose. These photos are about 3 years old. Again, if you need control of the nose, I don't know how THIS design would give it. There are other designs I haven't tried, however. And for my mare, bitless and trails don't go in the same sentence.


----------



## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

I use a nutural biteless bridle, I have done lots of cantering with my mare in groups and by myself, I've had her spook where she has spun around but she has always stopped within 10 feet or a little more but she's never bolted off like a wild woman on me......I'm quite happy with my biteless, she was 3 with 30 days of riding on her when I first got her and for 3yrs. I rode her with a rope halter and a bareback pad.....maybe I just have a very special horse LOL


----------



## corgi (Nov 3, 2009)

Here is a picture of the bitless I use. It is essentially a rope halter but it has rings to attach the reins to. I have two of these and I bought them from Advantage Horsemanship. The design keeps the halter lower on the nose than a rope halter and gives me a lot of control. This pic was taken right before we barrel raced at a fun show.


----------



## Ironless Horse (Aug 15, 2012)

Rope Halters in general do not make good bitless bridles. Typically they do not fit well. They are a loose fit, and they cannot be easily adjusted. This often results in lack of control. The "Q" Bitless Rope Bridle is adjustable so it fits correctly. It's a real bitless riding bridle. Check them out www.bitlessropebridle.com


----------



## corgi (Nov 3, 2009)

Ironless Horse said:


> Rope Halters in general do not make good bitless bridles. Typically they do not fit well. They are a loose fit, and they cannot be easily adjusted. This often results in lack of control. The "Q" Bitless Rope Bridle is adjustable so it fits correctly. It's a real bitless riding bridle. Check them out www.bitlessropebridle.com
> 
> View attachment 120090


That's almost exactly like the ones I use from Advantage Horsemanship! Love them!

http://www.advantagehorsemanship.com/store/index.php/training-equipment/bitless-halter.html


----------



## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

This is the one I use on my mare, I don't know whether I am pictures of her with it on or not....


----------



## montcowboy (Nov 11, 2012)

thanks so much. guess im a little old school here..lol. used alot of mech and rawhide hackamores but first time ive actually seen the difference . i use a training hachamore with most my horses. there thicker and less bend in them. i know i have pictures of a few of them if anyone is interested. cant promise the fitting is correct on one. he is big headed and my head stall wasnt. i basically stoped using mech hackamores and alot of long shanked bits cause of all the pressure they put on the lower jaw of horses. tends to make them lift there head up more then i like. anyways..thanks so much for teaching a old montcowboy..lol.. ride safe everyone and happy trails/


----------



## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

Only Thundersparks bridle looks like an actual bitless the rest are just rope halters with reins. My bitless bridle crosses underneath the chin and is set up so that when you pull on the reins it puts pressure on the poll.

This is the bridle I have








Comparing The Bitless Bridles Available


----------



## DixieKate (Oct 16, 2012)

the bitless I bought I ended up having to modify and it pretty much turned into a sidepull, and I like it, but like many people have said, it's about the bond between horse and rider, and I've only ridden this mare 5 times so far. We're off to a really good start, but we need to build that bond still before switching to bitless I believe.


----------



## DixieKate (Oct 16, 2012)

I thought I would let everyone know how our first trail ride went. My bridle came yesterday, so I used my copper snaffle and she did very well. We only rode for about an hour, and it was hardly a trail ride. We rode down the street through the woods in a secluded area, but couldn't actually go on the trail because it's closed for hunting season. We did have some good learning experiences though! 

On the way down the road, we have to pass a pig farm, and the horses usually hate passing the pigs. We were doing fine until she finally saw the pigs, and then she did the "oh God I'm gonna die!" twisted-sidepass-at-a-trot thing. I was able to get her to stop, but she was not happy about it, so I turned her in circles until she calmed down a little, and then I made her face the pigs and we stood there for a few seconds until she relaxed a little. She would do the thing where they take a big step to bolt, but she never actually bolted, and listened to me very well. After that, she only looked behind her a couple times, and then she didn't spook at anything else. 

We had another learning moment just because I'm cruel, where her new friend kept walking, and I made her stand back and watch her move. She was NOT happy with me at all, but she eventually got over it, and once she stood still for 5 seconds without trying to take a step, I let her keep going, and not at a trot like she wanted to. 

Then on the way home, when we passed by the pigs again, she looked at them and acknowledged that they were there, but didn't freak out, didn't try and move to the other side of the road, and didn't dwell on them. Just kept walking like nothing was there. I was so proud!

Overall, we had a really great time and she did very well. Especially considering that the other horse we were with is still kind of green. I'm excited to see how our bond grows and hopefully we'll be able to switch to a bitless eventually, but for now, we are both happy with a snaffle.


----------



## montcowboy (Nov 11, 2012)

lol...i just hate those horse eating pigs... there everywhere..lol..thanks for the update..ride safe everyone


----------



## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

Haha we had the same thing happen but with a miniature donkey. Poor duke (17hand percheron) was terrified. They don't like turkeys either


----------



## DixieKate (Oct 16, 2012)

Hunter65 said:


> Haha we had the same thing happen but with a miniature donkey. Poor duke (17hand percheron) was terrified. They don't like turkeys either


It's so funny to me how scary all the little things are. (pigs aren't little, but still). I was worried about the dogs that live at the barn because her previous owner did not have any dogs. She has done very well fortunately, as long as they come up slowly...and from the side. She hasn't tried to kick them or anything yet, so that's good. 

I've noticed that aside from living scary things, that mud puddles are just the scariest things in the world to some horses. I went on a trail with a haflinger who hadn't been trail ridden a whole lot, and we came upon a mud puddle that was MAYBE 2 feet in diameter, but boy was that terrifying!!!!:shock: We spent 5 solid minutes trying to walk over that mud puddle. First the bunny hop over it. Then the step-with-the-front-but-bunny-hop-the-butt. Then finally stepping over it like a normal horse. Silly boy.


----------



## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

Haha I had that too. Hunter will cross moving streams but it took us 3 hours a had to call in reinforcements to get him to cross a tiny little puddle. My trainer came next time and got him to cross but he jumps it like its a double oxer. Today we had to walk up through a running stream and no problem. Funny critters aren't they. He still had problems at that one spott
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## joseeandjade11 (Oct 12, 2012)

I know this thread is a bit old but i thought i'd share this 

I always ride in a bitless bridle, even going on trail rides. If my horse were to spook and started running, the one rein stop is what i would do. No matter the bit, or bitless bridle, or the horse...if the horse is spooked and has his mind set to run either way he'll be hard to stop. Many people don't understand how the bitless bridle works either. It was made that when you pull, there is pressure under the horse's chin and if you put more pressure while pulling the reins, the pressure moves to the poll so the horse will stop. And that is, of course if the bitless bridle is properly fitted to the horse's head to be very effective.


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I suppose that depends on if the horse understands having his head squeezed. I used a cross-under style bitless bridle on two horses, one time each. Both HATED it. Both had been ridden many times with a sidepull.

But if you don't think a bit allows better communication and better control of a horse about to bolt, or in a bolt, you are fooling yourselves. Folks haven't been using bits for 2500 years out of cruelty or ignorance.


----------



## joseeandjade11 (Oct 12, 2012)

Yes i agree, not all horses like the bitless bridles. I was lucky that when i bought my horse which was only used to bits before got used to the bitless bridle on my first ride and she doesn't mind it. I was even told she was a pain to back up in a bit, and with the bitless, she backs up amazingly  It does have it's advantages and disadvantages just like any other product


----------



## DixieKate (Oct 16, 2012)

As time has gone on, I've noticed that my mare is easily frustrated by face pressure. We have been doing groundwork and learning how to flex left and right with a gentle pull from the halter. In the beginning she was very angry because she couldn't understand why the pressure was on her face. She's better now, but still prefers a bit. She's very sensitive and I barely have to move the reins at all to get what I'm looking for. She "gets" the bit, so that's what we've been using. 

As we get more comfortable with each other, and start doing CTR, I'm probably going to attempt a sidepull or bitless, because it seems like it would be easier to eat with. 

Until then, we're happy using a snaffle.


----------



## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

joseeandjade11 said:


> I know this thread is a bit old but i thought i'd share this
> 
> I always ride in a bitless bridle, even going on trail rides. If my horse were to spook and started running, the one rein stop is what i would do. No matter the bit, or bitless bridle, or the horse...if the horse is spooked and has his mind set to run either way he'll be hard to stop. Many people don't understand how the bitless bridle works either. It was made that when you pull, there is pressure under the horse's chin and if you put more pressure while pulling the reins, the pressure moves to the poll so the horse will stop. And that is, of course if the bitless bridle is properly fitted to the horse's head to be very effective.


I ride my 11yr. mare in a biteless bridle (nutural one), for 3yrs. I rode her just in her halter and then I started using the nutural biteless bridle and she loves it, she responds great with it. She's been spooked, spun but always stopped for me within a few feet.......some people think you have to have a bite in the horse's mouth to have control but that's their opinion and I don't agree......


----------



## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

I've always ridden my horse on trails bitless - be it a rope halter, a Little S hackamore or sometimes, if we go alone, just a cordeo/neckrope. If I feel that he's a little more fiery that day, I might choose the hackamore over the rope halter as he sometimes tends to get strong around other horses at canter, but essentially he steers, stops and goes very well from my seat and voice cues alone. If a horse has been trained to respond to bitless aids, I think it's a very good choice for rides that are relaxing also for the horse, not only the rider.


----------



## joseeandjade11 (Oct 12, 2012)

Thunderspark said:


> I ride my 11yr. mare in a biteless bridle (nutural one), for 3yrs. I rode her just in her halter and then I started using the nutural biteless bridle and she loves it, she responds great with it. She's been spooked, spun but always stopped for me within a few feet.......some people think you have to have a bite in the horse's mouth to have control but that's their opinion and I don't agree......


Also use the Nurtural bitless, would choose this one over any other bitless out there! I bought my mare 8 months ago, put the nurtural bitless on right away, she never had a bit in her mouth since ive had her. Ive also heard some ppl say that they absolutely need a bit to have control but i dont necessarily think it's true but hey that's my opinion and we all have a different view or opinion on this


----------



## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

joseeandjade11 said:


> Also use the Nurtural bitless, would choose this one over any other bitless out there! I bought my mare 8 months ago, put the nurtural bitless on right away, she never had a bit in her mouth since ive had her. Ive also heard some ppl say that they absolutely need a bit to have control but i dont necessarily think it's true but hey that's my opinion and we all have a different view or opinion on this


I think of it this way.....if you have a good bond/relationship with your horse then you have to trust them and they trust you.....I've had my mare for almost 8yrs. now, she was trained in a bite but I've never used one.....I love the Nurtural!!!


----------



## joseeandjade11 (Oct 12, 2012)

Thunderspark said:


> I think of it this way.....if you have a good bond/relationship with your horse then you have to trust them and they trust you.....I've had my mare for almost 8yrs. now, she was trained in a bite but I've never used one.....I love the Nurtural!!!


Also love the Nurtural  i have the leather impressive western in brown, which one do u have? Same here she's almost 6yrs now and was trained in a bit but ever since i had her she never had a bit in her mouth. Plus i find it's a pain in the but in winter time to warm up the bit before putting it in the horse's mouth, never have to do any of that with the nurtural  Cheers to that


----------



## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

I take my mare our just in a halter, though she's super laid back, and will do the trail on her own.
Otherwise I'd like to keep a horse in a snaffle, just in case.


----------



## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

Just because you have it does not mean you have to use it.


----------



## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

joseeandjade11 said:


> Also love the Nurtural  i have the leather impressive western in brown, which one do u have? Same here she's almost 6yrs now and was trained in a bit but ever since i had her she never had a bit in her mouth. Plus i find it's a pain in the but in winter time to warm up the bit before putting it in the horse's mouth, never have to do any of that with the nurtural  Cheers to that


I have the webbed black one, I love it because when we go out trail riding, I tether her while we have lunch and she grazes.....everyone else has to carry a halter with them and takes the bridle off during lunch.....Spice is going to be 11 this year so she's been going without a bit for 8yrs. now and I trust her without one.......


----------



## charrorider (Sep 23, 2012)

*bit vs bitless*

We have 3 Arabian horses, each one bought from a different seller at different times. When I first heard of a bitless bridle I was intrigued & bought one. When it arrived, I saddle up my mare, put the bitless bridle on her & off on the trail we went. No getting her use to it in the round pen, or anything else. She took to it like a fish to water. The same was repeated w/ my other 2 Arabians. One thing, I do think it's imperative that the bridle be adjusted properly. I wonder if that trainer has any actual experience with a properly adjusted bitless bridle.


----------



## joseeandjade11 (Oct 12, 2012)

charrorider said:


> We have 3 Arabian horses, each one bought from a different seller at different times. When I first heard of a bitless bridle I was intrigued & bought one. When it arrived, I saddle up my mare, put the bitless bridle on her & off on the trail we went. No getting her use to it in the round pen, or anything else. She took to it like a fish to water. The same was repeated w/ my other 2 Arabians. One thing, I do think it's imperative that the bridle be adjusted properly. I wonder if that trainer has any actual experience with a properly adjusted bitless bridle.


I think it's VERY important that the bitless bridle is adjusted properly before riding with it otherwise it could not work as efficiently or could injure the horse's face in long term. Also did not get her used to it before riding ( i admit it's a good thing to do so), i hopped and rode in the arena and she understood it like a charm.

The biggest mistakes i see often with the bitless is that the nosenand is not sitting on the right place of the nose or the straps are not crossing the fattest part of the cheek.


----------

