# 15 year old cow, insane to buy?



## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

I know nothing of cattle.

However.

WHERE ARE PICTURES.

I would very much like to see a mini cow :O


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

Ha Ha Ha Duffy!! I knew that was coming!

Photos uploading now!


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

:-D

THANK YOU.

I promise not to show to my sister and ask her how she got her picture on the internet...would be insulting to the cow...


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## ForeverSunRider (Jun 27, 2013)

I did not know mini cows were a thing. And my dad works in the cattle business! :shock: I must see pictures! And it's only insane if their lifespan is like 16 years lol


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

Ok!

Here is a calf that was born on New Year's, it's back is only to my KNEES!


Here it is again, the fence is only 3 feet high, if that.


DD feeding some alfalfa cubes, these are FULL GROWN cows with newborn calves!
She is barely 4 foot tall, this fence is only 4 foot high!



This is a full grown bull!


Parting shot, these guys are SOOOO friendly!


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## ForeverSunRider (Jun 27, 2013)

Oh my goodness I want one.


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

Hmmm, well, a well taken care of cow can calve into it's 20's and live upwards of 25/30 years old. But of course that's RARE.

This cow is in impeccable condition... we're going to feed her an excellent diet of fodder that will help her keep conceiving and is reported to help with longevity...

We shall see, DH just bought her!!!!


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

OMG, the bull is just too cute!!

Congrats on the new addition!


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

I would not buy a 15 yo cow. That is ancient. Most are culled between 8-10 years of age for a reason their productivity declines and so does their ability to chew.
However if the price is right.... real real cheap..... you might do ok. 15 is not the same age for a cow as a horse. Most cattle dont live past their mid to late teens.
If you trust this lady ask her how many calves can this cow still produce? I have no experience with minature cattle they might live and produce longer than larger bovines. 
The longest we have had a cow live is 18 flygap. Those are range cattle that have not been pampered. Shalom


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Omg. So adorable!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

Don't listen to db downer. I imagine it is difficult to say what the longevity of cattle really is, simply b/c the majority do not die of old age. It would surprise me if mini cattle didn't, in fact, live a bit longer. You got her for a good price and will get your feet wet. I think it is great! And, exciting for you and DD!!


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Missy May if livestock producers could make a profit on an older cow they would retain them. A cow that can produce a good calf is a valuable asset to any herd. We cull them becuase as they age calving becomes more of a problem, the calves are not as healthy and vigorous, their milk production decreases, they cant chew or digest as well. It is hard to keep weight on them while they nurse the calf.
Those are facts anyone with any experience with cattle knows.
I am giving flygap sound advice.
A 15 year old cow IMO is the equivalent of a 24 year old broodmare.
Hopefully flygap you can get a calf or two out of this cow. Minis are very much in demand for owners of small acreages.
I saw a herd of minature longhorns that was too cute. Those jersey minis are simply adorable. Shalom


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

dbarabians said:


> Missy May if livestock producers could make a profit on an older cow they would retain them. A cow that can produce a good calf is a valuable asset to any herd. We cull them becuase as they age calving becomes more of a problem, the calves are not as healthy and vigorous, their milk production decreases, they cant chew or digest as well. It is hard to keep weight on them while they nurse the calf.
> Those are facts anyone with any experience with cattle knows.
> I am giving flygap sound advice.
> A 15 year old cow IMO is the equivalent of a 24 year old broodmare.
> ...


 I have been around a cow or two in my day, db downer, but never minis. Fly has bought the cow for a good price, and she is excited and rightfully so. No point in enumerating potential problems...it will all go fine for her.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

And when it *doesn't* "all go fine"?

Pretending that problems don't exist won't make them go away. 

I know several people that bought older, pregnant cows and as soon as their baby was weaned sent the cow to auction. It was a relatively inexpensive way for them to start establishing a herd. 

It's a gamble though and you don't always win. Georgie the steer in my freezer, his Momma kicked the bucket when he was a week old. She was older and the stress of yet another calf did her in. His owner couldn't care for him, so he ended up over here. 

I'm not saying I wouldn't consider an older cow but I sure as heck wouldn't wade in or "oh, it'll be fine...". I don't even do that with YOUNG cows! You better believe that there's a bottle, a pouch of colostrum supplement and a bag of milk replacer sitting on my dining room table along with a couple different antibiotics and vitamin supplements. We're mid-way through calving at my place and I'm hoping for the best and ready for the worst (already had to haul one calf inside to warm up and force feed).


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Missy May if you and I do not share our knowledge of cattle with our friend flygap what kind of friend would we be.
Both of us have conversed with her for years and in that time she has not been shy about voicing her opinion and IMO she expects honest direct answers.
I am glad she bought the cow and I hope she gets that heifer without any complications. Then she and I will have something else in common to counter our political differences. Just like you and I. LOL Shalom


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

I just love you guys!

Thank you all for the VERY sound advice!

Yes I know we are taking a gamble. Hopefully it'll pay off as she's bred and registered out the WAZOO and the future calf too. Thankfully it's a spring calf so I won't have to worry about ( so much, del I'll be prepared, thank you! I need a list of what exactly to get for a cow I only really know about deer and goats....) this horrific winter.
I'll be putting her in the foaling barn with a paddock to roam and doubt I'll have a restful night once she gets here...
I've read and heard conflicting reports on their calving. Some say minis calf easier, the lady I'm purchasing her from say they are harder because they are little bricks instead of long legged normal calves... I'll go with her assessment. But this is an experienced cow that has never had a problem and produces BREATHTAKING babies... Better than an unproven heifer maybe? 

I'm gr
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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

I have a longhorn cow that was 16 when we bought her and still calving healthier calves than some of our other cows did this time around.. Shes 19 now and still lovely..


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

barrelbeginner said:


> I have a longhorn cow that was 16 when we bought her and still calving healthier calves than some of our other cows did this time around.. Shes 19 now and still lovely..


Longhorns are like arabian horses , hardy and live longer productive lives than other breeds. I know of a longhorn cow that is 23 and produced over 20 calves.
If they were more suited to commercial production I would raise them instead of Santa Gertrudas. Shalom


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

I just love you guys!

Thank you all for the VERY sound advice!

Yes I know we're taking a (insane) gamble. Hopefully it'll pay off as she's bred and registered out the WAZOO and the future calf too. Thankfully it's a spring calf so I won't have to worry about ( so much, Del I'll be prepared, thank you! I need a list of what exactly to get for a cow I only really know about deer and goats.... I have family to help but... HA HA!.) this horrific winter.
I'll be putting her in the foaling barn with a paddock to roam and doubt I'll have a restful night once she gets here...
I've read and heard conflicting reports on their calving. Some say minis calf easier, the lady I'm purchasing her from say they're harder because they're little bricks instead of long legged normal calves... I'll go with her assessment. But this is an experienced cow that has never had a problem and produces BREATHTAKING babies... Better than an unproven heifer maybe????
She won't be our last, we have plans to get more... Eventually.

I'm growing fodder as we speak to have ready. That'll increase her milk production and improve her longevity/conception. Will introduce it slowly. She is in tip top condition so no worries there. This breeder is absolutely phenomenal and I was SUPER impressed with her custom setup and professionalism. She's got champions in all the listings and despite nature, which we are fully aware of and have been warned about, we/she don't think she'll have any issues.

If we only get one calf out of her, like Missy said, that's ok. 
We got a REALLY good deal and are thankful, for sure!

I only have 10/15 good acres up here and this breed is a godsend. I have access to more but that is a hassle. So we shall see.

I've been researching futures and livestock prices for ages and know with useable farm land being eaten up and difficult small farm hurdles (them vs large corps) and the fact that the average age of the farmer being around 70... We are in trouble. Beef is speculated to go up to $6 or more per pound this fall, it's at all time records now! I have good friends in the business making good on fall finish calves, same for y'all?
I'm going to be able to finish my cattle out on only .04 a pound plus whatever I grow extra in the orchard/gardens. Not too shabby. My friends are paying .12 a pound and getting 30%, plus culls and dealing with disease. I'm going to TRY and do better. Ha ha, with only one cow now! 
If miss moo needs to go in the freezer I'm prepared. Wouldn't be happy, devastated, but such is life. I'll make her final years blessed and as healthy as possible. 

I agree she's old, why I got such a "good deal", but if I can I'll make it work! Y'all know I'm no quitter!  
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Cattle prices are very good now and have been for a while.
The cattle herd in Texas is now at its lowest since the 1960's. Due to the drought and producers taking advantage of good prices to cull early.
With the amount of land you have minis are a good investment.
Cattle are not horses and can eat and digest much more variety than horses.
They can process roughage better and do not need more expensive hay.
Mine do well on cornstalks and milo stalks.. They bloom on rye grass hay and johnson grass.
Flygap where i live now there are estates from 5-15 acres. Mini cattle are in high demand.
Like I said earlier we now have something in common to talk about . Look into mini jerseys. Then you can produce your own milk. Shalom


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

Cornstalks? Like silage form? Or corn stalk hay? 

EWWWWW Milk?!? That's for babies! LOL!
Can't stand the stuff. Do you think I could skim some off a lactating cow enough to make a bit of butter? Now we're talkin! Have you eaten Jersey beef? I've heard its yummy and yellow. 

Yes, ugh the drought. Many in my family sold off their entire herds, some farms that have been going for over 100 years. So so very sad.
Now everyone seems to be heifer poor, but the almanac is predicting yet another dry summer here. I'll be cautious. 
I'm mostly worried about feed costs. Wheat is up what? 18 points? Corn today? It's looking gloomy and I'm trying to go GMO freeish anyways.

Mini meat is in high demand. It's supposedly better for the niche markets... Not that I'll depend on that.

Part of the FB is cutting hay on around 1,000 good acres. It was hit hard by the drought and is still poorer quality than normal. I get most of my hay "free" in exchange for work. I've been supplementing with pricy Bermuda to keep the ponies fat. Lots of Johnson and native grasses took over with the Bermuda killed out. 

Do you finish yours on grass alone? I read the other day that only 8% of our beef is grass finished. I'll be using wheat/barley fodder grown myself. It's labor intensive but that I have more of than $$$ and pasture acreage! . It's an "experiment" of sorts but if the claims are true it's more natural and has added health benefits which for small time me may pay off.

I have plans to clear more land up here but it'll take LOTS of time. One of these days...

Thank you for the good advice!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dehda01 (Jul 25, 2013)

Jersey meat is disgusting to me. My husband who was raised on it (lived/works on the family dairy farm) eats it just fine. Yellow fat instead of white, little to no marbling and a gamey taste. Give me a nice angus or Hereford anyday, I won't eat jersey and can smell the difference as soon as I open the package, and it stinks up the kitchen!


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Corn stalk hay. Cattle do well on it. Your older cow might need regular hay at her age.
We finiish all our beef on grass now. We are selling organic grass fed beef to local restaurants and individuals. Demand is high.
The mini market for breeding animals is also good and they eat less and use less water.
This drought will end sooner or later. Hopefully sooner.
I have never had jersey meat. I did not know it was different. I know the milk is high in butterfat.
Once again good luck and welcome to the cattle business. Shalom


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

With just a pair on 15 acres in your area, I don’t think summer feed will be a problem.  But, thinking ahead you might ask around and see how many head/acre your neck of the woods supports in all “conditions” (drought to lush) to get an idea of how big your future mini herd could be. Organic cert takes a little doing, but worth figuring up the in cost vs gain for the future. I am only guessing organic is “big” in the mini market, but I so wouldn’t _plan_ on holding back antibiotics for this particular future calf given mama’s age. 
No telling what ethanol has done to the price of corn silage, but at least it should be available in your area. And, when _perfectly good_ high quality hay gets rained on and it “saved” by turning and drying – it bleaches and its price goes to “cow feed” – i.e., cheap! It can be _way_ cheaper to feed beef cattle b/c of the variety of feed, and if they are small, cheaper yet!!  
Such a neat adventure for you! Minis..they have a “forever cute” factor.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Are you leaning toward making the purchase? :>


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

dbarabians said:


> I would not buy a 15 yo cow. That is ancient.
> 
> Most cattle dont live past their mid to late teens.


 Please do not tell our herd that!

We have a couple of bloodlines that live and CALVE well into late teens!


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## ForeverSunRider (Jun 27, 2013)

Have you researched how to help a cow calve?

My dad is in the rendering business and he deals A LOT with cows who died calving. I don't mean to be a downer ('cause I'd be about to the moon in excitement lol) but it's always good to know what's what when it comes to birthing babies. Especially cows. My dad says they more often than not have a really hard time giving birth.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

I grass finish my cows. I feed grass hay, alfalfa and in Winter they also get protein cakes.


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

Yep Z she's on her way Sunday!

FSR I've been pouring over info and videos. I have my FIL just 7 miles away on standby. He's had cattle off and on for years and grew up on a farm, has tons of knowledge. So we'll have help, plus the vet if need be.
Part of the reason we got her is because she's always had an easy time calving, no intervention needed ever.
But there's always a first, we'll be ready!

I've been planning for this for quite awhile now. Already have extra hay on hand and am growing fodder for her. She's been grain fed for most of her life so I'll keep that up till she's acclimated and for sure while nursing.
They are deworming and vaccinating before delivering her, that's good!!!

Soooo excited!

Other than iodine, chains, towels, milk supplement/bottle, what do you all suggest to have on hand in case there's trouble?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

Well, this isn't something to have on hand, and this is just from personal observation, but dry and warm (more importantly dry, though) conditions when they calve and directly after seems to increase their chances a lot.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

All our cattle calf in the open rain sleet snow or hail.
They are a lot tougher than you think. We have lost very few to weather conditions.
I would not interfere unless something was wrong and most likely you will miss the birth. Cattle are even more shy than horses about this matter.
We dont use iodine or any disinfectant. Mainly because our cattle are semi wild and the cow will stomp you to death if you come near her calf If it is a bull and you want to make it a steer band him early .
That calf wont budge for hours at a time its first few days. They are not like foals. Their best defense is to lay still.
I would be concerned about an older cow calving.
I am glad that you bought her and good luck. Shalom


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## equinesnfelines (Feb 1, 2014)

"Other than iodine, chains, towels, milk supplement/bottle, what do you all suggest to have on hand in case there's trouble?"


ck out a dairy around you and have a quart of frozen colostrum on hand---having it available will probably ensure it never being needed!!!!

the best of luck---i am excited for you!!!


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

Well, db, maybe I should have made myself more clear and like I said it is purely _personal_ observation. Range cattle in AZ, NM, NV calve just fine in snow, rain (never have seen in "sleet"), all on their own and alone, yes - but it is "dry" for all intense and purposes. This compared to the southeast (for my observations, included NC, TN) where, when it rains/snows it can be really "wet", damp, whatever you want to call it and the ground seems to really retain moisture. There just seems to this observer to be a higher "percent" (which is low, so "percent" is on your side) of complications in wet damp conditions.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Missy May our farm is not in west or south Texas. It is on the edge of the blackland prairie . blackland retains moisture. we have humidity and our snow is wet not dry. This causes mud that will suck the shoes off your feet. flygap lives in Arkansas not 200 miles from where I live.
Cattle evolved on the open range. They can endure extreme weather conditions. Herefords are tolerant of heat and cold. That is one of the reasons they are the most popular breed in this country. They survive and thrive in every region and in most types of weather.
Herefords originated in England. Where it is very damp and often cold. Therefore neither damp or cold unless extreme should be a problem. I attended Texas A & M University at Commerce to get a BS in in animal husbandry after my brother and I inherited my families estate . I can pregnancy check and AI cattle . Just a few of my many talents. LOL Shalom


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

Yes, db. I am aware of the Hereford's hardiness and history. Most domestic cattle did not "evolve" on open range, btw, they were selectively bred - just saying.

Everyone operates on the basis of their personal observations/feelings - and _that_ is the cattle business - and we have established both our beliefs on the matter. If yours fair just as well in damp, wet, muddy conditions I am happy for your cows/calves. I'd rather see them hit the sand in low humidity conditions. A _personal_ preference for reasons I have already stated.

Meanwhile, I am sure fly's mama cow knows best and will do fine, and if she or her baby needs help, it sounds like Fly is going to mother hen it.


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

Ha ha, yes Missy I'll be a helicopter farmer, lol!

But she'll be fine. I'm putting her in a small corral connected to the barn with an enormous foaling stall as her shelter. I think it's around 20x30.
It used to have running water and electricity for a heat lamp but it's old and I took that all out, didn't want the barn to burn down and had the pipes burst once .

We lost 6 chickens the other day and there have been two mountain lion sightings in the past couple months just below my mountain...
So I'll have a dog out and MAY shut them up at night. Mamma Hen much? 

One thing I've been "looking" for is a broke donkey... LOL! Allison's photo of her on one when she was a child has me wanting one for dd and to keep the cow safe... Broke donkeys are hard to find around here!

I do have Cowboy DD's horse, more mine now, and he was used as a pasture guard. He's tough as nails and mean as a snake but I'm worried about him around a calf... Planning to keep them separate until the calf is 6 months or older.
Thoughts? 

I'm looking for colostrum, thanks Equines.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

Well, at the risk of db countering that manure is a great bedding, keep it clean. If she has a ways to go yet, I would let her pasture just out of sheer laziness.  That way you can keep the covered run area "clean" of manure and she is relaxed. But w a cat around...hmmm.

A donkey! That is what I wanted, but got Jolene.  How fun and useful! I actually found a nice pair at a rescue up north when I was looking - I was surprised they had them. You never know what you might find or where.

Yeah, I would definitely keep them separate when the time comes, and a while after if they stay in the corral area. Since he was a pasture guard it is highly unlikely he will run them on pasture. But, 6 months seems overkill for pasture "sharing". But, you will "know".


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

Yeah, the last thing I have time to do right now is keep a stall and corral clean for an extra couple weeks. Hmmmm...
I'm worried though that with the stress of mooooving (sorry couldn't help myself!) her so late in the pregnancy she might have it sooner than later... And I want to keep a close eye on her and not have to worry, as much with her in new surroundings. So putting her up is looking to be the safer option?

I don't *think* it was a mountain lion that got my chickens, more likely a bobcat or coyotes hungry and braver than normal because of the cold winter... But whatever it was had some big ones to come in the yard. That and there is a massive bear causing problems with pushing down the electric poles...
I'm starting to feel guilty for bringing a cow and calf home with all these "dangers"... Ugh.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Get a donkey flygap. If you did not live so far away I would give you one or two of the 8 we have. I had 4 then someone dumped 3 more in the road and one foaled. All are pretty tame and you can even ride 2 of them.
down here auctions wont even take them they are so cheap and plentiful Shalom


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

Dream Catcher... if i was closer I would take a donk or two !! to bad shipping is soo expensive !
My neighbors have longhorn cattle, and there are times that these cows are very thin, and some of them are in their 20's still breeding, still calving. At the moment they are across the road from me, and we throw hay to the cows so they are not thin now. they are usually in the mtns and graze on the natural forage.


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

bobcats seem to know their size limit and coyotes are opportunists. Bobcats around here will run from a large dog if they can, I believe they understand the risk of injury isn't worth it. We had several generations of kelpies, coyotes are smart but kelpies are smarter. Most dogs can't outsmart them. Coyotes would concern me w/o a "pasture guard" of some sort. I see visions of Fly with large thermoses of coffee, a little tent and a rifle. kidding.

If you feel putting her up is best, you have to believe your "gut feeling". Cattle you can walk up to and pet don't undergo as much stress as range cattle when loaded and then put in a fenced area. It is hard to say to what degree a move will stress her - but it sounds as if most of the stress will be limited to the move itself - not a significant change in environment?


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

Cows will go after a Coyote. We heard a chicken ruckus and rushed out to see a giant black blur who hauled a$$ on over and proceeded to kick the crap out of the Coyote that was trying to nab himself a chicken dinner. 

I certainly wasn't expecting it since nobody had calved yet. Unless she was still protecting her calf from last year? :shock:


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

I have never seen coyotes go after full grown healthy horses or cattle. But an established pack will go after a lone cow giving birth. But, don't worry Fly, they won't mess with a cobra hovering overhead!!!


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

stevenson said:


> Dream Catcher... if i was closer I would take a donk or two !! to bad shipping is soo expensive !
> My neighbors have longhorn cattle, and there are times that these cows are very thin, and some of them are in their 20's still breeding, still calving. At the moment they are across the road from me, and we throw hay to the cows so they are not thin now. they are usually in the mtns and graze on the natural forage.


Stevenson if UPS or Fedex would ship a donkey I would have one on the way to your address.

I have never seen a coyote or pack of coyotes go after a cow or calf . It would take a whole pack the calf would have to be very young and the moma cow better not be too near.
Feral dogs though have been a problem. We shoot any dog on sight that does not belong on the farm. Or that we know belongs to a neighbor. The donkeys have taught the coyotes and most of the dogs to steer clear of any pasture they are in. Shalom


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## ForeverSunRider (Jun 27, 2013)

Okay so you posted that you were looking at one *and* that you bought one and yet....no pictures?!


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

. It's snowing, went from 70 yesterday to 20!! 
Torrential downpours this morning and my yard was a lake.

So she's coming Tuesday!!! Yay! I'll post lots and lots of photos!

DB I'd take a donkey and you can send on up one of the ponies while yer at it! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Which pony and donkey do you want and what colour? Shalom


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## HollyBubbles (Jun 22, 2009)

I don't see a problem with a 15yo cow, I live on a dairy farm (granted of course we don't milk mini cattle, but jerseys) and most of our cows are still taking to mating and being milked for 8 months of the year until they are around 20... Our oldest cow in the herd was 22 before she finally wouldn't conceive through AI, so she was left out for a season to be a happy fat bovine paddock ornament before she was put to sleep due to arthritis.

They are gorgeous btw!!


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

Surprise me DB! . Ha ha!

Thank you Holly, that gives me greater hope that were not complete dopes!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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