# Bringing this horse home for a trial, thoughts?



## QHDragon (Mar 6, 2009)

Just a couple of notes, this horse has no back muscle right now so that isn't helping with steadyness, and he was also shown to us in a twisted wire bit, which obviously he wasn't happy with. All of those things aside, what does everybody think of this horse in general? He will be used for BN eventing and dressage (mostly dressage). I am hopefully bringing him home this weekend for a 30 day trial, see if we click and if he fits in.


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## crimsonsky (Feb 18, 2011)

are you the one riding in the video? he looks like he'd be good for dressage once he's back in work and muscled up. obviously a change of bit is in order. 

edit: i listened without sound so if there was pertinent information being said i missed that. lol


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## QHDragon (Mar 6, 2009)

Nope, not me riding, and there was only music to cover up me chatting away.


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

Its hard to tell from that video...as he is not really being ridden forward especially at the beginning.......I don't like all the head tossing........any reason for the twisted wire? First thing I would do is get teeth checked out by a vet.......I would also like to see what the horse looks like when lunged walk, trot, canter in both directions without a rider.

Super Nova


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

Here are my thoughts on your vid. If he is lacking muscle on his back, why is he being ridden? That could be part of his head tossing from discomfort. I think the reason he was made to use the twisted bit is because of his head tossing and avoiding the bit. You can see the bit evasion from his mouth constantly being open.

If I were to get this horse, I would go back to the basics and get him more supple and giving to the bit, a regular snaffle. I don't know much of eventing or dressage, so I can't judge the horse on that.

I know someone will say, how is he suppose to get muscle on his back without riding him. IMO I would get him on a higher protien diet. Protien builds muscle where calories build fat. This has worked for me to put topline on my horses. Some will disagree.


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## QHDragon (Mar 6, 2009)

I plan to go back to basics. He was being ridden so we could see what he acted like under saddle. This was during our initial visit to see him. He is in a twisted wire because the owner feels like he "runs off" at the canter.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

usandpets said:


> Here are my thoughts on your vid. If he is lacking muscle on his back, why is he being ridden? That could be part of his head tossing from discomfort. I think the reason he was made to use the twisted bit is because of his head tossing and avoiding the bit. You can see the bit evasion from his mouth constantly being open.
> 
> If I were to get this horse, I would go back to the basics and get him more supple and giving to the bit, a regular snaffle. I don't know much of eventing or dressage, so I can't judge the horse on that.
> 
> I know someone will say, how is he suppose to get muscle on his back without riding him. IMO I would get him on a higher protien diet. Protien builds muscle where calories build fat. This has worked for me to put topline on my horses. Some will disagree.


I tend to agree with the above opinion. This is a very unhappy and uncomfortable horse. He has a deeply ingrained habit of fighting the bit and putting his neck in a braced and defensive position . In fact, his whole way of going was defensive. Really stiff in his back and he almost seemed off in the front, but I am not sure about that. He just looks like he is not enjoying being ridden at all. The amazing thing, and I think this speaks WELL of him, is that through all that, he was pretty good tempered about it. He didn't look like he was ready to blow out of frustration. 
I think, if you were willing to make him feel good about being ridden that you would have one really nice horse. Once he is no longer worried about being in pain, his best qualities will come out. The fact that he puts up with things now shows how stoic he can be.

You can see that his neck is developing totally incorrectly from him bracing against the bit and bringing his head up while the rider tries to bring it down by lowering her hands to "pull" him down. Just builds up those undeneck muscles all the more. It shows in his very ewe necked build. YOu will have to work a LOT at getting him to reach down and forward to relax those underneck muscle, (allow them to atrophy) while building up the other supporting muscles of the neck and shoulders.

The tricky thing is that he also comes behind the bit when offered the chance to bring his head down. He has deifinite issues with a bit, so you need to look into that first. and his back. Make sure that the giraffing responsse is not connected to him tryiing to drop (hollow) out his back to avoid a painful saddle fit.

I dont' know anything about your background, but are you experienced in rehabilitateing horses with these issues? If you do nothing, you will be constanting working against the hrose who fights the bit and contact and you will think he is just being a stinker but he will think how he hates being ridden. That is not what you want, right?

Lot of work, lot of potential!


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## EventinginMI (Sep 4, 2009)

It's me riding in the video- I was trying to figure out where he would like my hands, I naturally ride with a soft contact on my horse. (My trainer constantly tells me "pick up some more contact, you're barely touching him!") I hated the bit that the owner was using, but there's not a whole lot you can do when you're not the owner/ leasing rider to change things on an initial visit. 

The first section of the video is me trying to figure him out. The way his owner rode him to show him scared both me and qhdragon a bit. He was raced, and both trot and canter were a disaster. The canter he gave her was like he were warming up for a race on the track instead of ridden for pleasure in an indoor arena. Hence the first part is me going "Ok, is he an idiot or is the owner?" and wondering what to be prepared for.

If we had photos of his topline, you would see why he is in such pain and his head is unsteady. His spine is what the owner's saddle is sitting on, despite her using two or three thick pads to try to "remedy" the issue. I know that the bit is wrong and he did not like being ridden, especially not at first, but when he realized that I wasn't going to try to hurt him or haul on his mouth (I had nearly slack reins and had just enough contact to be able to stop him if he were to take off), he relaxed. He even stretched down for me at the end of the ride when I asked. 

I was not lowering my hands to "pull" his head down, I would take up contact, he would brace, and then when he realized I wasn't asking anything, he'd drop his head. It also wasn't me that made this horse build incorrect muscle, my eventing horse at home carries himself nicely and I trained him myself. 

It was a joy to ride him when he softened and realized I didn't want a whole lot from him, and the canter he gave me compared to the owner, you'd think I was riding an entirely different horse. Both qhdragon and I grimaced at the bit- I ride my horse in a nice fat eggbutt snaffle for dressage, and I think that a good bit like that, a good topline, some weight, and a proper saddle would do wonders.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Am I missing something? This horse was foaled in 1992, right? If that is correct, I am thinking that being raced is probably less of an issue than the way he has been handled and ridden since, which is probably like the last 10-15 yrs. My thought is that at 19 yrs old, I would probably be wondering how much I could change since he has most likely been ridden totally "wrong" for a LONG time. Head tossing, for example. If he has been doing it for 10 yrs, it will take a while to correct. JMHO. THere are LOTS of horses out there.


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## QHDragon (Mar 6, 2009)

He is actually a 93 baby, I put the date on there wrong. Not that one year makes that much of a difference. 

He was raced until he was ten, taken to a rescue for a while, and then bought by his current owner in 08. What happened between 2003-2008 I have no idea.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

That's a long time to have poor training. Are there even any effective ways to know if his back problems are from permanent damage? Sure some good training, better fitting saddle and muscle development will help, but to what extent? Personally I would look for a younger one who isn't so screwed up already.


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## QHDragon (Mar 6, 2009)

I have seen pictures of him from last fall with a perfectly fine and filled out looking back. I think the place he is at now just has no idea how to manage a TB. All of their TB-type horses were what I would call ribby.


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## iJump (May 1, 2010)

My OTTB didn't have a lot of back muscle when I got him either. Granted, he had been sitting in a pasture for about 6 months before I tried him out but still. Obviously this horse needs to be worked with to rebuild that muscle and needs a new bit as well, but I don't see any reason not to try. Like you said, you're bringing him home on trial. That gives you a month to figure out if you guys could have a good partnership and he could be what you want or not. I wouldn't pass him up just because his owner using a bad bit and his back doesn't have the muscling you desire. Ultimately, the decision is up to you. It's if you like the horse and feel like you two are a good match. I'd definitely get a PPE from your vet just to make sure. If that comes out good and you like him I say go for it! You're the one who has to live with him. And it's very possible he's just a diamond in the rough. Best of luck, I hope things work out with him! :]


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

EventinginMI said:


> It's me riding in the video- I was trying to figure out where he would like my hands, I naturally ride with a soft contact on my horse. (My trainer constantly tells me "pick up some more contact, you're barely touching him!") I hated the bit that the owner was using, but there's not a whole lot you can do when you're not the owner/ leasing rider to change things on an initial visit.
> 
> _*I think you are referring to my post, right.? I could see in the video that the rider (not knowing who it was) was trying to find out where to put their hands. When I said that about pulling down, I meant that the person who has been riding him for all this time was doing it, not in the video. I did see you lower your hands a few times but it also seemed that you were more suggesting to him that he could lower his head, not actually trying to muscle him down. I also noticed that when you tried to invite him to stretch down (and I saw the slack in the rein) he was very hesitant to come to veritcal, but chose to stay behind to bit. *_
> _*I can imagine how you were fishing around to find him and how to get him to trust your hands.*_
> ...


 
_*I hope I made it clear that I, too , think that he has potential, in the right hands. Sounds exciting that you have great ideas, and it will be fun to see his progress.*_


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## hollybygolly22 (Mar 25, 2011)

He's cute and all, but personally, I wouldn't want to have to take a 17 year old horse back to the basics.


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## QHDragon (Mar 6, 2009)

iJump said:


> My OTTB didn't have a lot of back muscle when I got him either. Granted, he had been sitting in a pasture for about 6 months before I tried him out but still. Obviously this horse needs to be worked with to rebuild that muscle and needs a new bit as well, but I don't see any reason not to try. Like you said, you're bringing him home on trial. That gives you a month to figure out if you guys could have a good partnership and he could be what you want or not. I wouldn't pass him up just because his owner using a bad bit and his back doesn't have the muscling you desire. Ultimately, the decision is up to you. It's if you like the horse and feel like you two are a good match. I'd definitely get a PPE from your vet just to make sure. If that comes out good and you like him I say go for it! You're the one who has to live with him. And it's very possible he's just a diamond in the rough. Best of luck, I hope things work out with him! :]


Thanks! I hope he works out too. I know I will be spending a good portion of our trial getting weight on him and re-working him. Hopefully the re-working will show me if he is going to work out or not, even if I can't ride him. I am hoping that full turn out will take care of the craziness he showed us (he only gets about 4 hours of turn out currently, the rest he spends in a stall), and everything else will just fall into place.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

You say you are looking for a dressage and eventing horse, and you are looking at a horse in his late teens. Really, for what you are wanting I would say the horse is unsuitable based entirely on age and what poor (or lack thereof) training he's had in his life.
Are you prepared to retire the horse in as little as two years? Are you prepared for the cost of maintenance associated with competing an older, arthitic horse? Are you prepared to sacrifice training and competeing for the well being of the horse, IE you will most likely not be able to do above training level dressage because the horse will likely not stay sound with the amount of riding required for fitness to do any higher levels?

These are things you have to think about. This horse needs a lot of training and re-work and you will likely only get one season out of him. If you are willing to put that much training into a horse for one season, then look at a young horse, put the same amout of basic training into it and get ten seasons.
JMO but I would walk away from this one for what you are wanting him to do.


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## dressagebelle (May 13, 2009)

I personally have to agree with anebel. If he was raced from 2 years old to 10 years old, that is a huge amount of strain to be put on his tendons and joints especially as he wasn't done growing when they started him. To me that says he's going to have arthritis, and maybe other joint issues especially if you start jumping him, and he hasn't been asked to do much the last couple of years. Yes he may be a diamond in the rough, and yes he may last for another 3 or 4 years at low levels, but the cost of maintaining him, retraining him, bringing him slowly back up to at least a moderate level of work, would definitely take him out of the running in my mind. If you really want to compete, I would definitely look at something younger that is already doing the work load, was trained and ridden right, and will last you for years without needing immediate care for the older joints. He's cute enough, but he's got a lot of issues to work out, and that will take a lot of time.


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## Deerly (Apr 18, 2010)

hollybygolly22 said:


> He's cute and all, but personally, I wouldn't want to have to take a 17 year old horse back to the basics.


This.  Especially since you are purchasing him.


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## AllegroAdante (Sep 28, 2008)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> You say you are looking for a dressage and eventing horse, and you are looking at a horse in his late teens. Really, for what you are wanting I would say the horse is unsuitable based entirely on age and what poor (or lack thereof) training he's had in his life.
> Are you prepared to retire the horse in as little as two years? Are you prepared for the cost of maintenance associated with competing an older, arthitic horse? Are you prepared to sacrifice training and competeing for the well being of the horse, IE you will most likely not be able to do above training level dressage because the horse will likely not stay sound with the amount of riding required for fitness to do any higher levels?
> 
> These are things you have to think about. This horse needs a lot of training and re-work and you will likely only get one season out of him. If you are willing to put that much training into a horse for one season, then look at a young horse, put the same amout of basic training into it and get ten seasons.
> JMO but I would walk away from this one for what you are wanting him to do.


I agree completely


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## QHDragon (Mar 6, 2009)

I ended up bringing him home on a trial anyway. He is a very sweet old guy with a very peaceful zen-like feeling about him. I don't plan on going much past first level in dressage with him, or any horse, realistically (can't afford the lessons or a horse that really could). Jumping more than 2 foot makes my heart flutter, so for all my purposes I think he will work for now. 

I plan to switch him over to a big fat snaffle and am researching on topline work. He looked amazing less than a year ago, so I know he can get back to that point with some good food and care.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Deleted when I saw the post saying you had already brought him home.


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## QHDragon (Mar 6, 2009)

maura said:


> Deleted when I saw the post saying you had already brought him home.


Would love to hear your thoughts anyway!


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