# Perhaps it's time for us to regroup..?



## savvylover112

I for one would like to be the first to join you and agree that on some threads I think we all have gotten a bit out of hand and I will be willing to join you


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## Alwaysbehind

Silly question - is profanity even allowed? I figured it was not.


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## JustDressageIt

Yay Savvy! Welcome to the "resolution club!"

AB, no it is not allowed, but I have seen a lot of profanity on this board of late - time to nip bad habits in the bud!!


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## savvylover112

Yay I am part of a club go me  lol oh and call me Shauna


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## bubblegum

i wanna join this club too, sometimes i get scared to post some threads as i dont know how people will react to my silly questions


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## wild_spot

I'm the opposite, it's coming into summer here - I'm in the best moods! You poor US members!


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## kevinshorses

Hell no!! I love a good argument. And if it says it in the bible it's not profanity!!


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## TaMMa89

Even I think I've managed to keep my posts pretty correct (no self-boasting here) I can join this. Of course it's ok to disagree since sometimes disagreement can bear constructive discussions but you can disagree it polite way.


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## JustDressageIt

TaMMa you are always polite!!

I'm definitely not saying we shouldn't debate - I love myself a good'er here and there, but rather up the level of respect for each other once again. We don't need to go around calling names and getting TOO worked up.


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## FGRanch

I'm soo guilty of rude, or at least not near as polite as I used to be. 

I'm not sure exactly what has brought the change on, but even my non-internet friends have noticed I'm not near as happy go lucky as I used to be. I'm working on it though! 

I'll join the club, but I might need a friendly reminder every now and then to keep my attitude in check!


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## MIEventer

What a great idea JDI. I'll definately join in  I need to work on adding more smiley's to my posts.


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## Vidaloco

I agree JDI , and its sweet of you to start an "I promise to be nicer" thread. As far as the profanity, I believe we go by what can be said on network television with some moderator discretion. Unfortunately even that is being pushed by the censors. I hear things on TV that even 10 years ago wasn't allowed. 
Oh, and yes I promise to be nice


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## ShutUpJoe

I'm already in that club...I think


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## Erin_And_Jasper

i'll join


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## Appy Luvr

bubblegum said:


> sometimes i get scared to post some threads as i dont know how people will react to my silly questions


 I have the same problem. I sit and think before I'll start a post because everyone thinks differently and I don't want to start a problem by asking an innocent question. I've been jumped for no reason on past forums and i just hate it:-(


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## JustDressageIt

This is fantastic everyone!!


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## Dressage10135

*raises hand* I, Liz (AKA Dressage10135), do hereby promise to be nice in all of my posts from here on out. I accept full responsibility for my actions and will follow the rules of the club. *lowers hand* 

I'm in!  :lol: :lol:


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## JustDressageIt

Yay! Oh I'm so glad that this post has gone over so well!! 
I'm just asking us to cut the snark a little -- it seems to have worked its way into our usually very nice little community lately. Debates are fantastic, critiques are great - as long as each is done with class and without stooping to calling other names or anything like that.


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## juju

I know i dont post very often, but i'll join, and watch my words when i post!


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## Kayty

Yeah sure why not.... but I think along with people being 'nicer', others need to stop being so reactive and taking things badly!! I know I've posted a few times in threads trying to help with what I know and what has worked for me, only to get snapped at for 'criticising' or similar. Settle down people, it's the internet, take advice or leave it, don't have a cry because someone gives you a suggestion that you don't neccesarily like


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## SmoothTrails

{jumps up and down} I will join. I hate wondering if someone is going to jump down my throat for my opinion. I try to keep things nice, but I know that I can be rude sometimes. I will try to keep it in mind. I have no issues on the cussing part. I try to keep anything I post clean. (although I choose sarcasm instead)


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## arabchica

I think this is just wonderful that we can all agree to disagree without being disagreeable about it I'm in an as for the foul language we all know what you want to say {i think} why spell it out? no more four letter words for me GRRRRR


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## my2geldings

JustDressageIt said:


> I don't know about anyone else on the boards here, but I for one have noticed quite a bit of profanity and (for lack of a better word) mean-ness on here lately between members.
> I know that I've been a bit on edge.. the days are getting shorter (it's pitch black here by 6pm now!), and due to my own injured status, I'm not getting out and about nearly as much as I should be or want to be.
> I'm sure others have similar stories of stress!!
> This is just a friendly post asking us to find our true HorseForum unity and perhaps just take an extra moment or two to think before we post. I know that I for one see red and post without thinking sometimes, and regret it not too long after because I realize '... hey... it's the internet.. why am I getting so worked up?' but usually it's too far past the time to edit.
> So, I would like to take this time to kind of re-invent my posting self, and resolve to try and be a bit nicer in the way I say things.
> Anyone care to join me?


You know you are right. I realized that when I went thru my last hip surgery and I spent my day glued to the forums. There is a lot of anger on here and most posters post directly the first things that comes to mind.

I find being positive and being complimentive goes a lot further and as the saying goes regardless of how frustrating things go, "if you don't have anything nice to say, dont post it". 

I think simply not answering a thread or only posting a kind comment without directly answering a thread that you know you dont agree with, is a lot better. Posters/Forumers never take negative advice or comments into practice EVEN if its advice they asked for in the first place, so why even post it in the first place. 

I agree, everyone needs to rethink their posting style and revamp how they want to word things. This site as a lot of absolutely fantastic people and some great advice and ideas and we're all going to take advantage of it if we take more care of each other.


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## Wallaby

I'll join! =D 
I try my hardest to be nice but sometimes my hardest isn't enough. haha

That was a great idea to post this JDI!


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## JustDressageIt

Thank you 
All I am asking is for members to think twice about what they're posting, and be courteous to each other. This is an awesome community and I just want us all to make it even better. We don't want posters to be worried about their questions, we want to encourage healthy discussion of topics and really encourage respect. 
You guys are all awesome!!


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## Vidaloco

I don't want to put a cork in the warm and fuzzy's but unfortunately many of the types who enjoy troll posting won't agree to this or won't even read it. I used to believe all people are basically good. I still like to think so, but sorry to say there are those that enjoy being mean. 
Maybe if we agree to ignore them they will go away or at least post less. 
I know I have gotten my feelings hurt here many times and have been brought to tears by total strangers. That's not right. Fortunately I'm committed to this community and there are enough truly sincere, friendly people here to make it worthwhile.


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## FGRanch

I've decided that I will avoid the horse forum COMPLETELY when I'm in "one of those moods!" 

I've said it before, but it hasn't stopped me and some poor inoccent, and some not so much bystanders have gotten the gruff of my bad moods. There will always be certian members, topics, threads that just irk me but I will attempt to avoid those.


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## LeahKathleen

I'll join - I am so guilty of this. 

I have always prided myself in the way I choose to express myself, but I find myself getting more and more accusatory and snarky as of late. 

I think some of us perhaps still have a bitter taste in our mouth from past experiences with individuals who would not listen to niceness. I think we are jumping to conclusions that niceness just won't get our point across - but more often than not, here anyway, it does.

I really do think of you guys as my "internet family" [not a creeper, I swear!] and I think we all need to make an effort to be closer and respect one another. 

As Beck so eloquently puts it, "Everybody's gotta learn sometime..." We need to understand that questions, more often than not, do not stem from ignorance, but from a desire to learn. We need to know the difference between critique and rudeness; between debate and fighting; between expressing oneself and infringing on another's right to do the same.

I need to watch myself, and I am going to need a reminder every now and then!

:]

Great thread, JDI.


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## Wallaby

LeahKathleen said:


> I'll join - I am so guilty of this.
> 
> I have always prided myself in the way I choose to express myself, but I find myself getting more and more accusatory and snarky as of late.
> 
> I think some of us perhaps still have a bitter taste in our mouth from past experiences with individuals who would not listen to niceness. I think we are jumping to conclusions that niceness just won't get our point across - but more often than not, here anyway, it does.
> 
> I really do think of you guys as my "internet family" [not a creeper, I swear!] and I think we all need to make an effort to be closer and respect one another.
> 
> As Beck so eloquently puts it, "Everybody's gotta learn sometime..." We need to understand that questions, more often than not, do not stem from ignorance, but from a desire to learn. We need to know the difference between critique and rudeness; between debate and fighting; between expressing oneself and infringing on another's right to do the same.
> 
> I need to watch myself, and I am going to need a reminder every now and then!
> 
> :]
> 
> Great thread, JDI.


LeahKathleen just put my feelings into words. Great post! =)


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## LeahKathleen

Thanks.


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## TwisterRush

-raises hands and jumps up and down-
I Forsure will definitally join, 
I have noticed this also JDI, and i dont know if i am guilty of it lol, but i will definitally join this  
I have been jumped on amany different forums(mostly dog forums, even when i JUST started and asked a very small simple question) So i do hesitate when posting, or think twice before posting a comment, as i know how it feels, online and offline !

Spread the Nicely-nesss!


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## ChingazMyBoy

wild_spot said:


> I'm the opposite, it's coming into summer here - I'm in the best moods! You poor US members!


Apart from its really hot and makes riding harder because of it! But yeahh I'll join this excellent group! We also should remember that everyone has a different way to do thing, not one way is right/wrong.


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## ridingismylife2

I'm joining!  

I try to be nice but there was one person that used to be here that just irked me and there are a few topics that are just...arghhhh! But I'll stay away from them.


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## iridehorses

I like the whole idea! 

In fact, I'm going to ask Mike if we can't get a little Star or some sort of designation that we can put by our IDs or avatars. Any member that looses sight of the point of this thread, looses the designation. 

Whatchaall think?


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## ridingismylife2

good idea!


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## Wallaby

Good idea!


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## JustDressageIt

iridehorses said:


> I like the whole idea!
> 
> In fact, I'm going to ask Mike if we can't get a little Star or some sort of designation that we can put by our IDs or avatars. Any member that looses sight of the point of this thread, looses the designation.
> 
> Whatchaall think?


Fantastic idea!




Just had the weirdest flashback to being a kid and getting a sticker for being a good patient at the dentist..


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## MIEventer

Pfffft, stickers. I got suckers and tooth brushes! HA! Beat that!


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## mls

iridehorses said:


> I like the whole idea!
> 
> In fact, I'm going to ask Mike if we can't get a little Star or some sort of designation that we can put by our IDs or avatars. Any member that looses sight of the point of this thread, looses the designation.
> 
> Whatchaall think?


Honestly - no.

I do try to be tactful but the typed word can come across much differently than the intended delivery. Or even being in the wrong mood and reading a response, a person can interpret the meaning 100% wrong. The forums out there with member 'rankings' are nothing more than popularity contests. I would very much dislike seeing this forum go that direction.


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## iridehorses

I can appreciate your point of view, mls, but I'm not suggesting a ranking system. What I'm suggesting is a designation, a reminder, for members who promise to curb their language and attitudes above and beyond what is expected on the forum. Members who want to be the ones that set an example for the rest of the members. 

It is not going to be voted on by others or affected by them. There are no numbers attached to the designation, it's more like wearing a pin. There is no special consideration by the forum team and it is totally voluntary - ask to be a "member" or don't.


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## Speed Racer

I can be abrasive at times, but believe that sometimes it's necessary.

I won't curse at anyone, but I'll be danged if I'm going to blow sunshine, roses, and fluffy bunnies up someone's bum if they need a reality check.

Anyone who comes on the forum and asks, "My horse is rolling around, kicking at himself and biting at his sides, what should I dooooo?" is going to get the rough side of my tongue. As will anyone who obviously has a horse in physical distress that needs to see a vet.

True, everyone starts at zero when they first get horses, but common sense needs to prevail in certain scenarios. If you haven't researched and done _some_ homework prior to the horse arriving, asking people on the interwebz is NOT a good substitute.

I'm anal retentive and a little bit OCD, so I try to research something to death before I'll willingly participate in it. While I'd _like_ everyone else to do that, I know they won't.

Actual requests for information I'll try to give as calmly and rationally as I can, but when someone asks a question then doesn't like the answer and retorts back sharply, which one is the 'rude' one?

'Rude' and 'nice' tend to be perception based, depending on which side of the fence you're standing at the time. That's all I'm saying.

I try to be respectful and don't tend to name call, but I'm not going to stroke someone's ego just so I won't be considered a meanie head.


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## iridehorses

Point taken SR. A forum is a place to learn, teach, and share. Anyone who asks for a critique or makes a post with an outrageous statement should expect the truth but it doesn't need to be done in a caustic or sarcastic way. That type of response only creates more problems then it tries to fix.


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## Alwaysbehind

iridehorses said:


> I can appreciate your point of view, mls, but I'm not suggesting a ranking system. What I'm suggesting is a designation, a reminder, for members who promise to curb their language and attitudes above and beyond what is expected on the forum. Members who want to the ones that set an example for the rest of the members.
> 
> It is not going to be voted on by others or affected by them. There are no numbers attached to the designation, it's more like wearing a pin. There is no special consideration by the forum team and it is totally voluntary - ask to be a "member" or don't.


Yes, but you say this special thing can be taken away if the person does not act a certain way. Who determines if that person is not acting that certain way?

So, it is a popularity thing in a way. Because a liked person can get away with jumping on others but someone who is not liked as much will get punished for saying a simple fact, because that fact does not agree with the popular vote.


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## mls

iridehorses said:


> I can appreciate your point of view, mls, but I'm not suggesting a ranking system. What I'm suggesting is a designation, a reminder, for members who promise to curb their language and attitudes above and beyond what is expected on the forum. Members who want to be the ones that set an example for the rest of the members.
> 
> It is not going to be voted on by others or affected by them. There are no numbers attached to the designation, it's more like wearing a pin. There is no special consideration by the forum team and it is totally voluntary - ask to be a "member" or don't.


Why do we need a reminder? Shouldn't that just be the way it is?

And again - who decides on taking the designation away? Ask 10 people the same question when they are handed the exact same information and you will get 6 opinions.


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## iridehorses

Alwaysbehind said:


> Yes, but you say this special thing can be taken away if the person does not act a certain way. Who determines if that person is not acting that certain way?
> 
> So, it is a popularity thing in a way.


It would be discussed by the moderators. The same way the use of improper language, an inappropriate post/thread, or attitude is handled. It has noting to do with "I like your answer so I'll give you a star" or "let's see how many stars we can give each other". There are other forums that do it that way but this is not the case with what I suggested. It is the sign of a promise to set an example for the forum. There would be no accumulation of points - a simple star (or whatever icon) would be all.


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## kevinshorses

Speed Racer said:


> I can be abrasive at times, but believe that sometimes it's necessary.
> 
> I won't curse at anyone, but I'll be danged if I'm going to blow sunshine, roses, and fluffy bunnies up someone's bum if they need a reality check.
> 
> Anyone who comes on the forum and asks, "My horse is rolling around, kicking at himself and biting at his sides, what should I dooooo?" is going to get the rough side of my tongue. As will anyone who obviously has a horse in physical distress that needs to see a vet.
> 
> True, everyone starts at zero when they first get horses, but common sense needs to prevail in certain scenarios. If you haven't researched and done _some_ homework prior to the horse arriving, asking people on the interwebz is NOT a good substitute.
> 
> I'm anal retentive and a little bit OCD, so I try to research something to death before I'll willingly participate in it. While I'd _like_ everyone else to do that, I know they won't.
> 
> Actual requests for information I'll try to give as calmly and rationally as I can, but when someone asks a question then doesn't like the answer and retorts back sharply, which one is the 'rude' one?
> 
> 'Rude' and 'nice' tend to be perception based, depending on which side of the fence you're standing at the time. That's all I'm saying.
> 
> I try to be respectful and don't tend to name call, but I'm not going to stroke someone's ego just so I won't be considered a meanie head.


EXACTLY!!! If you ask for help I will give you my best advice but don't tell me you know nothing about it and then argue with me and tell me I'm wrong. If you have posted about how to put on a bridle don't expect to be taken seriously when you respond to posts about complex taining problems.


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## JustDressageIt

I absolutely see your point mls and Speed Racer. I'm not asking anyone to fart rainbows and butterflies, I sure as heck won't be.... there are people out there who _do_ need a reality check, and I am prepared to give it to them.
*However* I am going to think twice about my delivery. 
I have been rude in the past. I have been very close to coming across as saying "how could you be so foolish?" or "how could you not know better? Seriously!" but I (for one) have to realize that I have grown up around horses. I've done my fair share of stupid stuff, and I was very fortunate that 1) nobody was seriously hurt and 2) there were no internet forums around - I'm sure I would have been ripped a new one a few times over.
Riding and horse care is a learned process. Some of us have been very fortunate in the fact that we've been exposed to so much. We are all still learning, and have the right to ask (sometimes silly newbie) questions, and not be made to feel like less of a person. 
I am simply asking myself and other members to watch what we are saying, and keep bad language and snark for other places. We don't need it here. Snark and foul language is likely to get a person's defenses up and get them to promptly shut down instead of trying to learn more. 
For example, I once posted pictures that I was fairly proud of. Denny had just come off of lengthy stall rest and months of not being ridden. I myself had just started feeling better from my health issues. Due to many circumstances, the pictures were "nice" but far from "completely correct." I found that I really shut down to the posters being very snarky about their comments, and absorbed the information of those stating things with no snarky undertone.
Is it perception? Largely. However, there is a way to get your point across without the rude undertone. 
I'm not asking anyone to 'fart butterflies' or anything of the sort, rather just curb the attitude.


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## LeahKathleen

I think we all have the same standards of what's ridiculous and what isn't (i.e. 'I don't know how to put a bridle on, but I can solve your horse's vices.') but all we're saying is that everyone needs to be tactful in their responses.

"OMG, lyk, you are SOOoosooOO stoopid if you dont know that ansr!"

This is obviously not tactful, kind, or respectful. I know that it's an exaggeration, and none of us speak that way, but you understand my point. Calling someone stupid and offering no help is not a good way to go about something.

We are all smart enough to express our thoughts and concerns without being hateful.

I think that's all we're getting at. If you don't want to participate - don't. 

I like iride's idea for the designation of "example setter."


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## Mike_User

I think this is a great idea! 



mls said:


> Why do we need a reminder?


If I understand the idea correctly, the "club"/icon would denote that the member who has it has committed him or herself to posting a certain way, or more accurately, not posting a certain way. In that case, it would be less of a reminder and more a statement of their commitment.



mls said:


> Shouldn't that just be the way it is?


Ideally it would be, but any amount of experience online or off suggests that it isn't. Members who request the icon will be making a statement that they are striving for this ideal. Members who keep it will have proven to achieve some semblance of it.



mls said:


> And again - who decides on taking the designation away? Ask 10 people the same question when they are handed the exact same information and you will get 6 opinions.


This may be true, but it is still possible to determine which of 6 opinions are given rudely. The Horse Forum Team approaches all of its decision making with an emphasis on fairness and reason. The same standards would apply in determining whether a member's conduct fell short of the standard expected of a member with the icon.

Please send a pm to JustDressageIt or iridehorses after rereading the Consciousness Etiquette Policy if you agree with what it stands for and would like to pledge to observe it.

Like JDI said, it doesn't require rainbows and sunshine, but an attempt to be nice or at least neutral. That doesn't mean agreeing with other members, but giving thought to how you express your disagreement.

No community is perfect, but by making an effort to treat our fellow horse enthusiasts a certain way we can come as close as any community can.

Thanks,
Mike


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## Speed Racer

I agree with you JDI, and there have been times where I've had a VERY sharp retort just itching to be typed in, when I've had to step back and realize that none of us were born knowing about horses.

I've often had to look at the situation from the OP's eyes. After doing that, I can usually post something appropriate.

Like the questions about chestnuts and hoof flares. My first reaction was, 'well who doesn't know _that_?', but upon reflection I just answered the questions. 

Noobs have questions. If we ridicule them for asking what we consider silly ones, they'll stop asking. Which is bad for them _and_ their horses.


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## JustDressageIt

My point exactly SR! 
This forum is a great community filled with very experienced horsepeople. All I would like to see happen is for a bit of attitude and snark be left out of posting. 

I have been feeling very anxious and snarky lately, and it has crept into my posts - I've become aware of it, and have seen it in others' posts as well. Time for the horseforum to once again become a friendly (yet very informative) community again!!


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## Kentucky

I'll join it, too. I may not have type it but I thought about it at least.


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## redneckprincess70

JDI, I'm in!!

I have personally posted threads on here for advice or other members experience and had them hi-jacked by other members, ending in a argument. I had resigned myself to never post again, just read others threads to learn from.

Glad to know I'm not the only one feeling a little put off from others responses. I've seen certain people bash every thread. I've also watched threads for certain members advice, trusting there info and experience.


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## my2geldings

LeahKathleen said:


> I think we all have the same standards of what's ridiculous and what isn't."


I think it's the opposite. Tho this thread was well intentioned, a forumer's background, education, age, gender, experience, emotion on that day at that moment, motivation behind the reply, their social and physical environment etc etc(list can go on and on), will always come into affect as to why someone will say what they say. What I post in a thread might in fact be completely appropriate but someone who is sitting a few thousand miles away will read it and see it completely differently, might be innappropriate to that reader. Might not even be understood in the way it was intended.

Yes people should be thinking first, but even by doing so, what we all see as appropriate or not appropriate at the time it's posted will be different for the person reading it.

Cheers


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## iridehorses

Kelly, this is an international community and members need to remember that at all times. There are certainly colloquialisms that a member from one area will understand but the rest of the world doesn't. It is really the member's responsibility to realize that. Unless it is blatant, the moderators discuss a post that is somewhat edgy and make the choice to leave it, warn the offender, or leave it alone. 

Same thing applies with those who take the "pledge" to be more aware of how things are perceived on the forum. What the "reform group" wants is typically what we all want and that is a smooth running place to learn and teach about all things horses; it is just that they are stating that they want to make a more conscious effort to achieve it.


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## Alwaysbehind

My2Geldings, that is what I was trying to say and you said it much better than I did.

Something typed as an innocent sounding response full of facts to the person typing it could easily be taken as rude and snarky by the receiver.

The response I got to posting the rules in this thread are a perfect example of what I am talking about. Why am I being told to calm down.
Gosh, I used the word 'linky' in my response, I did not say 'here is the freaking link if you do not believe me'.

 Link to thread I was talking about


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## my2geldings

Absolutely, agreeing with that.


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## mls

JustDressageIt said:


> I absolutely see your point mls and Speed Racer. I'm not asking anyone to fart rainbows and butterflies
> 
> I'm not asking anyone to 'fart butterflies' or anything of the sort, rather just curb the attitude.


Now personally - I find this rude. Not a prude by any means but I simply do not feel that type of verbage is necessary. There are many young people on this board that would get in trouble at home for using that word.


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## JustDressageIt

A lot of it is in how you ("you" being universal, I'm not saying this to anyone in particular) type something, eg:

No offense, but you really need to work on your leg positioning.

versus

I really like your seat, but I would suggest trying to work on solidifying your legs a little. Some exercises I would recommend are.. 


So with this group all we're asking is for members to think a little more before they hit "post reply." Some things are blatently rude, others are hidden behind a wall of snark or sarcasm. Re-reading your post a time or two and changing the wording around can make all the difference in the world to someone on the other end. Being conscious of what you're saying and making that little extra effort to make sure your post is not likely to come across as rude is the aim of the game here. 
Sometimes one can post a reply with the best intentions and without thinking their post is rude, and yet it comes across that way to other members - this happens, but it shouldn't be the norm. If it is, perhaps it's time to take a moment and examine what in your post might be coming across wrong.


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## JustDressageIt

mls said:


> Now personally - I find this rude. Not a prude by any means but I simply do not feel that type of verbage is necessary. There are many young people on this board that would get in trouble at home for using that word.


I apologize. 
I was simply using a term that can and does get thrown around when we talk about this topic. (Many people accuse certain boards as being too nicey-nicey, and the term "----ing butterflies" is used.) My parents used to use the term "curb the attitude" quite often when I got mouthy, I didn't think it was too out there.
Just for future reference to everyone, unless I am specific, "you" is a universal term, not directed to any one person


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## free_sprtd

I will go along with ya


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## kchfuller

Alwaysbehind said:


> My2Geldings, that is what I was trying to say and you said it much better than I did.
> 
> Something typed as an innocent sounding response full of facts to the person typing it could easily be taken as rude and snarky by the receiver.
> 
> The response I got to posting the rules in this thread are a perfect example of what I am talking about. Why am I being told to calm down.
> Gosh, I used the word 'linky' in my response, I did not say 'here is the freaking link if you do not believe me'.
> 
> Link to thread I was talking about


you used caps so it didn't sound nice to me... i am sorry for not getting what you were typing ... gotta love it when ppl are taking smack about you behind your back and you find it :lol:

anywho i think that it is great to check ourselves when posting- i love the idea to be nice but yet it is good to have a healthy constructive criticism ... go team!


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## iridehorses

Constructive criticism is encouraged .... destructive criticism is not.


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## TaMMa89

JustDressageIt said:


> I absolutely see your point mls and Speed Racer. I'm not asking anyone to fart rainbows and butterflies, I sure as heck won't be.... there are people out there who _do_ need a reality check, and I am prepared to give it to them.
> *However* I am going to think twice about my delivery.
> I have been rude in the past. I have been very close to coming across as saying "how could you be so foolish?" or "how could you not know better? Seriously!" but I (for one) have to realize that I have grown up around horses. I've done my fair share of stupid stuff, and I was very fortunate that 1) nobody was seriously hurt and 2) there were no internet forums around - I'm sure I would have been ripped a new one a few times over.
> Riding and horse care is a learned process. Some of us have been very fortunate in the fact that we've been exposed to so much. We are all still learning, and have the right to ask (sometimes silly newbie) questions, and not be made to feel like less of a person.
> I am simply asking myself and other members to watch what we are saying, and keep bad language and snark for other places. We don't need it here. Snark and foul language is likely to get a person's defenses up and get them to promptly shut down instead of trying to learn more.
> For example, I once posted pictures that I was fairly proud of. Denny had just come off of lengthy stall rest and months of not being ridden. I myself had just started feeling better from my health issues. Due to many circumstances, the pictures were "nice" but far from "completely correct." I found that I really shut down to the posters being very snarky about their comments, and absorbed the information of those stating things with no snarky undertone.
> Is it perception? Largely. However, there is a way to get your point across without the rude undertone.
> I'm not asking anyone to 'fart butterflies' or anything of the sort, rather just curb the attitude.


I agree 100% with that. 

Since I participate just certain parts of the forum (mainly off topic discussion) which IMO seems to be mainly ok I don't exactly know how the things are with other parts. But if it's like how I got it when I read your comments in this topic, I have to say I'm a bit worried about the way where the forum is going. I('ve) also participate(d) another forum where every (I really mean every) topic turn into a fight, smaller or bigger, and as you believe that doesn't make you want to participate or at least you have to think many times what do you dare to say. I love this forum because I feel that I can just be myself here - also bring my weaker sides and worries out without being afraid that you'll bring me down. I love the supporting atmosphere and bet else do too. I hope it won't change.

So if you feel somebody asks 'silly' questions, please think it twice before responding. For that person those questions perhaps are something that they really don't know and perhaps they already feel silly when asking them. I've noticed that people often ask questions that they think are silly or dumb on the web where they can be faceless. Let's take an example, though this Speed_Racer's person who has a horse with clear symptoms but who doesn't know when it's time to call a vet. How about instead of 'hey dumbass you shouldn't have ANY animal before you know the basics' something like: 'it sounds that your horse needs a vet now but hey, here are some good books that tell about horses. Could you consider reading some of them so you can perhaps notice ailments like this in future yourself too ?' Since it's good that this person has even dared to ask it and want to do something with the bad situation. I understand more straight words in case you really notice that somebody does something really dangerous/unresponsive and don't even want to do anything that would turn it better.

(Please notice: since I don't want that there will be happen any misunderstanding with above, I mean the previous paragraph just in general, not personally toward any user. And when I hijacked your example for my offensive / not offensive thing Speed_Racer, I don't mean that you'd be offensive or even include in the example, I just needed some simple example now when my head is out of examples).

About the misunderstandings and preventing them, I'd higligh smileys. It's a bit pity that you can just bring out an one part of yourself on the forum, just can't use all of you elements, body language and emphasis in your voice etc. You can still replace some of them with smileys which (even are imperfect) can bring a some kind of emotions in your text. For example, if I notice that some of my message seems to be interpreted two or more ways (that happens often when I try to give some good piece of advice and it sounds almost rude) I clarify my purposes with a kindly smiley.

Lets remember, topics argue, people don't.

Hope you caught even something about my messy message .


----------



## Mike_User

TaMMa89 said:


> I love this forum because I feel that I can just be myself here - also bring my weaker sides and worries out without being afraid that you'll bring me down. I love the supporting atmosphere and bet else do too. I hope it won't change.


We'll see to it that it won't. There are plenty of places on the Internet where people can go to be as mean to others as they want, but The Horse Forum has a higher standard. It's great to see that members appreciate that and are committed to helping ensure the community remains educational, friendly, and fun.

We'll get icons setup soon for those who have requested them.

Thanks everyone,
Mike


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## Jake and Dai

I'm in too! (not that I post all that much...but I appreciate the idea)


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## Sunny06

I'll admit this is going to be a hard one.. I've been stressed lately, and over the Interent, it's very easy to type a snarky retort.

However, I'll try my best although I *do* (belive it or not) for the most part try to stay as snark-free as possible.. But then some people get on that you just really can't stand, and you just can't help yourself.

But I'm all for it


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## Spastic_Dove

I kind of think I'm already in this little group?

I don't particularly like the idea of the little badges (Things that seperate people always seem to end up poorly x.x) and it's pretty hard to offend me...but hopefully I'm not upsetting anyone around the forum and not knowing it!


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## Rebelappy

i m on board i havent posted alot for that fact lately its more argumentative and unpleasent we are all horse loving people and some have more experience then others and those can share thier knowledge nicely to help us all along i totally am in on Allie what a an awsome idea


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## TaMMa89

Administrator said:


> We'll see to it that it won't. There are plenty of places on the Internet where people can go to be as mean to others as they want, but The Horse Forum has a higher standard. It's great to see that members appreciate that and are committed to helping ensure the community remains educational, friendly, and fun.
> 
> We'll get icons setup soon for those who have requested them.
> 
> Thanks everyone,
> Mike


I forgot something in my first message.. I'd thank you and the moderators for keeping this forum so great that you always want to return here.

Well done


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## Honeysuga

I want to give my pledge too!!
I pledge to try to be a better member of this community. I will try to not become snarky over the little arguments (that includes age discrimination my biggest peeve, i realize i am young i am just going to have to deal with the fogies saying "now youngin' my years of wisdom tell me this")(the fogie thing was not meant to be rude at all, just a term i use for people older than myself). I will try to not be as aggressive as i have as of late.

I love this forum, you guys are my links to the horse world( right now i am in colege and in a tiny appt far far away from my horses and it makes me feel sad) And i love being able to just hop onling and join a discussion or give my advice to another member and not be asked "who cares about your opninion?"
I think you are all very talented and savvy smart equestrians and horse owners and i love that i can talk to you. I am proud to be a member of this community.
Lastly i would like to apologize for any ruffled feathers i might have caused, when i got my first warning the other day i was like OMG im in trouble! lol I know i can be really out spoken and catty at times, but i promise to try to keep my mouth and lil clickity click fingers under control from here on out.
* one last thing, i promise to try to control my naughty words, it is just how i speak and not at all meant to be rude or offensive to anyone, i will try to replace them with hteir milder counterparts form here on out cause im afraid its the best i can do in that area.... hehe


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## BaileeJJMommy

I am in!! I am fairly new, and try to watch what I say, but ya never know how people will take things that you say. 
So I vow to reread all my post and make sure they are un-mean lol!


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## 1dog3cats17rodents

I'll join! I know I've been snarky recently!

A huge issue I've had on here recently is the judging of experienced riders of people who do not have the same opportunies.

Also, there is more than one answer. Please don't belittle someone because they disagree with what you consider to be the 'only' proper option. That makes you sound like an elitist


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## Erin_And_Jasper

*raises right hand*
I , Erin And Jasper, Choose to be a nice more pleasent person in the future. if i am not punishment will be carried out. 
*puts right hand down*


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## irydehorses4lyfe

I'm in as well. Although I try my best to make sure what I say is respectful, I know everyone has bad days. I think this is a good idea, esp. with a forum of so many members.


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## Alwaysbehind

kchfuller said:


> you used caps so it didn't sound nice to me... i am sorry for not getting what you were typing ... gotta love it when ppl are taking smack about you behind your back and you find it :lol:
> 
> anywho i think that it is great to check ourselves when posting- i love the idea to be nice but yet it is good to have a healthy constructive criticism ... go team!


Sigh!

I did not talk smack about anyone behind anybodies back. 

I was making a point how this system will not work and this is a perfect example. I post something pretty simple and you get upset with me and the mods tell me why you were upset with me, they do not say boo about you being snarky to me. Um, sure. But what I posted was not wrong in any way or inflammatory in any way but I am the bad guy.

And this is in no way behind your back. It is a thread on the same BB...how can it be behind your back when I posted about it over there too?

I did use caps for the word IS. I was going to bold it so it was clear that I was saying that bute is allowed (vs not allowed) but since it is a two letter word I thought it would work better as caps. I was intentionally stressing the word is so there was no confusion. Nothing nefarious involved. 

Again, the reason you get a star and we can take it away because decide you are being mean will not work.

*bangs head against wall some more.


----------



## iridehorses

Alwaysbehind, this is an optional, experimental feature. You don't have to participate and no one will think less of you for it.


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## kchfuller

^listen i am not trying to cause drama and i think that this has gone way to far already- it was a misunderstanding, please let it go.

thanks!


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## Alwaysbehind

iridehorses said:


> Alwaysbehind, this is an optional, experimental feature. You don't have to participate and no one will think less of you for it.


Not my point....


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## JustDressageIt

Alwaysbehind - this is a group asking members a favor just to be more aware and courteous to their fellow HorseForumers. That means being aware that capitalized words online is akin to yelling, reading your post over just to be aware of what you're typing. That's all. It is a voluntary group; if one decides against joining, that is fine.


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## LeahKathleen

Here's what I think.

Yes, tone of voice cannot be determined online, and so sometimes things get taken the wrong way.

I think we need all need to make an effort to ensure that the reader DOESN'T take your comment the wrong way. A smiley goes long way. A well-worded sentence goes a long way. Obviously, those things are fool proof, but come on.

"Your leg is really unstable." - A fact, certainly. Nothing mean, rude, or offensive has really been said. 

"I like your seat, but I think you would benefit from strengthening and stabilizing your lower leg." - The same fact, but with a much more friendly approach.

I don't think that being overly sunshine and rainbows, I just think it's a kind way to give criticism. 

I'm pretty sure that's all we're getting at. Be aware of your tone, and if someone takes offense to something you said, take a look at how you said it. YOU know how you meant it, but not everyone will, so why don't we all make an effort to make our niceness as obvious as possible?


----------



## Alwaysbehind

JDI, I know capitalizing things is yelling (though I am not yelling your name and that I know is a perfectly acceptable situation to capitalize). I am sorry if you thought I was not aware of BB (another perfectly acceptable place to capitalize) etiquette. 

In the example, even if I was yelling the word IS I was yelling one two letter word. I was giving it emphasis. How exactly does one give emphasis if the word is so small that bolding does not work?


My point is.... simple really.... but tangents are causing it to get lost.

If a person does not have a star they will be looked down on. And a person can loose their star (or whatever mark) because some one wrongly takes their post as something it was not. 

Just like in the case of the post we are talking about here. How is stressing the word IS mean I need to be pounced on? And that type of pouncing could lead to me loosing my star and then I am a bad person.

Shrug.


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## iridehorses

Alwaysbehind, you are over thinking this and you are being overly concerned about a feature that hasn't even started yet . At this point, I would just let it go and see how it works. Your point is taken, we'll see how it all works out when it's implemented.


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## JustDressageIt

LeahKathleen - excellent post, you said everything very well.


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## 1dog3cats17rodents

LeahKathleen said:


> I think we need all need to make an effort to ensure that the reader DOESN'T take your comment the wrong way. A smiley goes long way. A well-worded sentence goes a long way. Obviously, those things are fool proof, but come on.
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure that's all we're getting at. Be aware of your tone, and if someone takes offense to something you said, take a look at how you said it. YOU know how you meant it, but not everyone will, so why don't we all make an effort to make our niceness as obvious as possible?


I have to agree with Alwaysbehind. She was not being rude in any way. Nor was she yelling.

Take the above post by LeahKatleen. She capitalizes two words. Is she yelling? No, it's emphasis. (great post by the way, not bashing it, just using it as an example)


----------



## mls

1dog3cats17rodents said:


> I have to agree with Alwaysbehind. She was not being rude in any way. Nor was she yelling.
> 
> Take the above post by LeahKatleen. She capitalizes two words. Is she yelling? No, it's emphasis. (great post by the way, not bashing it, just using it as an example)


I agree. Sometimes all caps are used to stress a point. Not everyone has the time (or know how) to use the bold or italics features.

A smiley added can also be taken as sarcastic.


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## Alwaysbehind

1dog3cats17rodents said:


> I have to agree with Alwaysbehind. She was not being rude in any way. Nor was she yelling.


Thank you.

For the record, I totally love your screen name. It makes me smile and giggle every time I see it. What kind of rodents? I just had my last rat PTS. Sigh. Not getting anymore for awhile. I hate it that they do not live long enough.




1dog3cats17rodents said:


> Take the above post by LeahKatleen. She capitalizes two words. Is she yelling? No, it's emphasis. (great post by the way, not bashing it, just using it as an example)


I agree.


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## 1dog3cats17rodents

Ufortunately my last ratties just died :-( She was three and just started wasting away (despite three vet vists, antibiotics, oxygen...) I just have my one mouse left, Mufasa (dove male)

But I've had up to 23 rodents at a time. Mostly rats, gerbils and meeces, but also two degus and two guinea pigs. I miss my small pets and wish I still had time for a group of rats


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## Alwaysbehind

Rats are the best. I will miss them too. But I need to take a break. It is so hard to see them struggle as they get older no matter what we do. Such wonderful animals, if only they lived longer. Daisy was 2 and a half, not a breeder rat but an oops pet store breeding from a rescue so I say we did well. Her sisters were put down a couple of months before.


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## Vidaloco

1dog3cats17rodents said:


> Ufortunately my last ratties just died :-( She was three and just started wasting away (*despite three vet vists, antibiotics, oxygen*...) I just have my one mouse left, Mufasa (dove male)
> 
> But I've had up to 23 rodents at a time. Mostly rats, gerbils and meeces, but also two degus and two guinea pigs. I miss my small pets and wish I still had time for a group of rats


 Sorry to go off subject but I have a vision of a little ratty oxygen tank and a little tiny face mask with an elastic band to over her little ratty ears. Sorry you lost her though :-(

OK carry on......


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## 1dog3cats17rodents

Vidaloco said:


> Sorry to go off subject but I have a vision of a little ratty oxygen tank and a little tiny face mask with an elastic band to over her little ratty ears. Sorry you lost her though :-(
> 
> OK carry on......


Usually (or at least at the two vets I use) they have a clear box with a cloth in it, and the oxygen is pumped in. That is also how they start the euthanasis process. Then they do have a tiny mask to assure they are truley unconcious before the lethal injection though


----------



## TaMMa89

TaMMa89 said:


> I agree 100% with that.
> 
> Since I participate just certain parts of the forum (mainly off topic discussion) which IMO seems to be mainly ok I don't exactly know how the things are with other parts. But if it's like how I got it when I read your comments in this topic, I have to say I'm a bit worried about the way where the forum is going. I('ve) also participate(d) another forum where every (I really mean every) topic turn into a fight, smaller or bigger, and as you believe that doesn't make you want to participate or at least you have to think many times what do you dare to say. I love this forum because I feel that I can just be myself here - also bring my weaker sides and worries out without being afraid that you'll bring me down. I love the supporting atmosphere and bet else do too. I hope it won't change.
> 
> So if you feel somebody asks 'silly' questions, please think it twice before responding. For that person those questions perhaps are something that they really don't know and perhaps they already feel silly when asking them. I've noticed that people often ask questions that they think are silly or dumb on the web where they can be faceless. Let's take an example, though this Speed_Racer's person who has a horse with clear symptoms but who doesn't know when it's time to call a vet. How about instead of 'hey dumbass you shouldn't have ANY animal before you know the basics' something like: 'it sounds that your horse needs a vet now but hey, here are some good books that tell about horses. Could you consider reading some of them so you can perhaps notice ailments like this in future yourself too ?' Since it's good that this person has even dared to ask it and want to do something with the bad situation. I understand more straight words in case you really notice that somebody does something really dangerous/unresponsive and don't even want to do anything that would turn it better.
> 
> (Please notice: since I don't want that there will be happen any misunderstanding with above, I mean the previous paragraph just in general, not personally toward any user. And when I hijacked your example for my offensive / not offensive thing Speed_Racer, I don't mean that you'd be offensive or even include in the example, I just needed some simple example now when my head is out of examples).
> 
> About the misunderstandings and preventing them, I'd higligh smileys. It's a bit pity that you can just bring out an one part of yourself on the forum, just can't use all of you elements, body language and emphasis in your voice etc. You can still replace some of them with smileys which (even are imperfect) can bring a some kind of emotions in your text. For example, if I notice that some of my message seems to be interpreted two or more ways (that happens often when I try to give some good piece of advice and it sounds almost rude) I clarify my purposes with a kindly smiley.
> 
> Lets remember, topics argue, people don't.
> 
> Hope you caught even something about my messy message .


Wow that sounds somehow loose and lame when I read it now afterwards :-|. Shouldn't write that long messages when you're semi-fallen asleep. Anyway, you caught the point.

Here's one view that I'd want to bring up besides all said in this topic. It can even be a little controversial but I just hope it arouses some thoughts.

What I mean is responsibility of a reader.

It's good if people try their best to being polite while posting but there can occasionally be something that they just don't notice or think rude but what the reader find rude. So before responding feisty it'd be good to think if the rude comment seems to be purporsefully headed toward you or if it isn't. Notice the general environment in the topic and tone of the rest of the 'rude' message. 

Personally I've found some that some comments can arise condeming 'what heck is that?' -mood sometimes. Then I've read rest of the message/topic and infered that this word/sentence etc that I think was rude have to be something that have been written unthinkingly or mean something else than how I just got it.

Of course none have to stay with pure rudeness or that doesn't remove responsibility of the writer. I just think it'd be good that also readers can bend sometimes and think before responding - since we all make mistakes.


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## Vidaloco

You're right Tamma, it only takes a second to hurt someones feelings or make an inflammatory statement. It would be so much better, if when we are in that state, we stood up and walked away. Go do something else for just a few minutes then came back and posted the reply. 
We have to remember there are people on the other end of these written words. 
I just flamed someone and I'm feeling guilty can you tell?


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## JustDressageIt

Vida! You flamed someone?


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## kumquat27

could i become a memer of this club please?


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## JustDressageIt

You're on the list Kumquat!


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## Vidaloco

I promise, from this time forward I will be nice.


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## RegalCharm

Vidaloco said:


> I promise, from this time forward I will be nice.


 
I thought you were always nice to people.


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## Spyder

Kayty said:


> Yeah sure why not.... but I think along with people being 'nicer', others need to stop being so reactive and taking things badly!! I know I've posted a few times in threads trying to help with what I know and what has worked for me, only to get snapped at for 'criticising' or similar. Settle down people, it's the internet, take advice or leave it, don't have a cry because someone gives you a suggestion that you don't neccesarily like


 
I have seen it.

I try not to be rude and you would not know how many times I have deleted what I wrote and re written it. I am blunt though and if you can't stand the truth or a different opinion then you need to rethink even posting asking for some information or responding to a percieved "attack".

When I ask a question try taking it at just face value without any "hidden" meaning. I usually have a good reason for asking.


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## kumquat27

Yay! thanks


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## WSArabians

Sorry! I got a mouth like a trucker and it just slips out!! 
*pouts*
I can't help it...



'Sides, let us not forget the difference between an argument and good, healthy debate. 
I LOVE to debate. Not sure if that'll change. lol


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## WSArabians

Kentucky said:


> I'll join it, too. I may not have type it but I thought about it at least.


Yeah, seriously Eddie, you need too. You're always SOOO rude! :evil:


:lol:


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## WSArabians

FehrGroundRanch said:


> I'm soo guilty of rude, or at least not near as polite as I used to be.
> 
> I'll join the club, but I might need a friendly reminder every now and then to keep my attitude in check!


****

Yeah, if some people heard the comments today about that poor innocent pony, they'd have strung you up like a witch to the stake!! :lol:


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## Erin_And_Jasper

when are we getting the badges?


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## JustDressageIt

Mike is super busy with work (from what I understand) but we're working on it! Thanks for your patience guys!


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## Tennessee

To be completely honest, I am not joining this little "group." Yeah, I wish we could be nice and poop rainbows, but there is a LOT of ignorance on this forum, and if someone is endangering the health of a horse, I AM going to step in and let them know exactly what could happen. I am not a fan at all of these cookie cutter responses. If people ask a question, they should want the most honest answer, not some sugar coated reply from someone who knows what they are doing is wrong because they don't "wanna hurt their feelings."

Yeah. I'll try to be nicer. Why not? Nice is good. Am I going to stop being honest and make everyone happy? Hell no.

Speaking from that, what exactly is 'foul language?' I really wish the moderating team would make up their mind. Sometimes I get reported for a word, sometimes I don't, even if I've seen a moderator replying on the same subject, which would probably mean that they have read through the posts.


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## iridehorses

Tiffany, we are not trying to stifle debate or honest answers. What we would like to do is to say it constructively. Changing "you are a complete moron" to "someone is liable to get hurt like that, you might want to consider doing it this way instead..." Calling someone an idiot is certainly not going to get them on the right track.

As for the language, the rule of thumb is "if you can't say it on network TV, you can't say it here". With that being said, there are times when a word said in one context is acceptable but not in another. ie: "****, that was a great ride" vs "you're a **** moron". 

Not everything is cut and dry and, as a moderator, we have to make a judgment call and sometimes we are right but sometimes we are not.

Joining the group is optional and just a promise to be more careful - it is not meant to turn a blind eye to a bad situation or give a wonderful critique to a poorly conformed horse.


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## ogledrillrider02

I will join the group =]


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## roro

It seems as if this thread has already found a sort of resolution, but I've been pondering it for a while so I will share my thoughts.

I think a lot of the conflict that comes between different forum members is not so much a conflict of politeness as it is a conflict of personality and social understanding. Being polite can mean different things to different people based on their personality. Because I'm me and understand myself the best I will use myself as an example (stating the obvious). I am an introverted, rational, and logical sort of person who prioritizes the truth over being nice. When I click on a 'critique my horse's conformation thread', my raw personality would be to respond like so: "he is rather poorly conformed. His hocks are at an incorrect angle and his chest is undeveloped, he also has a disproportionate body to leg ratio". If the world was populated by a bunch of Mes, this would be the correct thing to do and there would be no conflict or hurt feelings. But obviously, it isn't. Most societies adopt an extroverted outlook on things, as does this forum due to the earth having more extroverts than introverts. Here, like many places, being nice and prioritizing feelings over "the ultimate truth" to the other members takes priority over saying every hard fact, at least not without a lot of toning down and rewording. Therefore, we must abide by these rules. Taking the critique thread example, I would (and now do) say something along the lines of "I really like his color and face. A few things I can point out: his hocks are slightly misaligned and his chest lacks definition, but this can be improved by muscle work".

To help thinking, rational (fact) type personalities: what seems fine to us can easily be perceived as rude and arrogant, often we sound mean without realizing it. Reread what you say before you post remembering that we live in an extroverted society. Add compliments or praise in where you can as friendlier types will not listen to your opinion if you do not give any "nice".

To help sensing, feeling (prioritize emotions) people: a rational person will be frustrated with you if you do not give fact or reasoning for your opinion. This is probably the point where I see a lot of conflict on various threads. Before you post your opinion, give facts, examples, and/or reasoning. Try not to post on impulse because this will make your emotions show stronger than your words, others will not listen to you (especially the factual types) because an emotional post often has little reason/fact in it. If something annoys you give it a few minutes and come back to it and then post when you can do so with limited emotional attachment.

Sorry for writing a somewhat unrelated novel here!


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## RusticWildFire

I'm way late, but I'll join!


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## iridehorses

The badges are coming!!!!


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## Equus_girl

Yay! I've been hoping we would get them soon!


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## TaMMa89

Great post roro.

That badges thing sounds like a good idea. I'd like to have mine too (if you think my manners are polite enough :wink


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## JustDressageIt

Hey guys, thanks for your patience with this group - I think we're back on track and ready to roll! 

Roro - excellent post. That is what we're striving for, awareness. 

TaMMa, you are most indeed polite enough


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## free_sprtd

Oh come on Tamma!! You're so nice hehe


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## WSArabians

Tennessee said:


> Yeah. I'll try to be nicer. Why not? Nice is good. Am I going to stop being honest and make everyone happy? Hell no.


To-freaking-che!


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## Dressage10135

How do we know if we got a badge?!


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## JustDressageIt

Dressage10135 said:


> How do we know if we got a badge?!


Look under your post stats


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## Sunny06

Aw, COOL!


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## wild_spot

Personally, I don't like the idea of badges. I try to be polite - But I won't censor my opinion so that other people feel better. 

Having to choose if you want a badge or not makes it feel like i'm choosing wether or not to be nice, period.


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## myhorsesonador

Oh I want to join PLEASE!!!!!


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## appy rider 4 life

Ill join! i know sometimes i should watch what i say too. so count me in!!! could a horse join too??? because i know Nikita could use it too.


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## dashygirl

Count me in, it makes me sad when people are inappropriate and pick fights, that's not what we're here for!


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## JustDressageIt

Please be patient! Your guys' badges are coming


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## Appy Luvr

I would like a badge  I try to be careful and not say anything that is going to hurt someones feelings or start a fight.


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## Spyder

I just opened a can of worms...so no badge for me.


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## wild_spot

^ Yep, you sure did :]


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## Painted Hotrod

I think I bite my tongue pretty well when I get frustrated on here :lol:

I even said darnit, instead of a wirty dord.. hehe
But, I can't say that I don't try to defend myself, and kind of get a little hot headed.. That's just my personality though :-|..


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## DarkEquine

I would *pretty please* like to join too! Sounds like and excellent idea!


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## Painted Hotrod

I forgot to ask if I could join!!


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## JumpingTheMoon

I'd like to join too. I like an even playing field as much as possible. I understand people have bad days but there's a time and a place to lose your temper and it's not on an undeserving person. I also like a hearty debate lol!


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## NorthernMama

Wow. I have totally avoided this thread up to now. Partly I've been too busy but also partly because I thought it was going to end up being a love-fest and I'm far too much of a realist for that kind of nonsense. Thankfully, I see it is not all about being sacharin-sweet. (spelling?)

There have been many comments about saying something nice first and then the negative critique. That's nice to do. But if I don't do that, am I now rude? Not in my opinion. Blunt maybe, but not rude. I was raised with old German training and was taught from the earliest that we should say what we mean and say it clearly without flowers and sugar. Some people find that rude. Others find it efficient. Although, after 20 years of training from my East-Indian (read EXTREMELY POLITE) in-law, I have softened a lot.

And, as pointed out by another poster, rudeness can be in the mind of the reader. We humans have a hard enough time communicating face to face and now here we are trying to do it with text. Not an easy task so the responsibility for etiquette lies with the poster AND THE READER. Maybe if there are etiquette badges for posting, there should be salt shakers for readers to remind them take things with a grain of salt when needed. 

I too, was uncomfortable with the "farting butterflies" remark, but I glossed over it. Just not important enough to get upset over just because I personally don't like the word "fart". (Just a thing I have.) Generally I find that poster to be polite and she certainly didn't intend to insult anyone with it. So it also about knowing the person that is posting and that takes time. It's about building relationships. Which brings another wrinkle into this: there are some people here that have posted for a very long time and have stronger relationships with people so can say things in certain ways that could be considered rude by an "outsider" or "newcomer". There are also people here that actually meet in person regularly. Again, that determines different responses in threads that someone else might not understand correctly. 

I don't need a badge to be polite, I don't need a badge to set an example, I don't need a badge to remind me. And I most certainly don't need to have a badge so someone else can judge me and take it away. So, I won't join the identified club. If you all are having fun with it though -- terrific. I don't do carrots either.


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## 1dog3cats17rodents

NorthernMama said:


> I don't need a badge to be polite, I don't need a badge to set an example, I don't need a badge to remind me. And I most certainly don't need to have a badge so someone else can judge me and take it away. So, I won't join the identified club. If you all are having fun with it though -- terrific.


Great post!


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## JumpingTheMoon

Well said NorthernMama!!!

I am ashamed to admit... I am obsessed with carrots. *cough* should be a 12 step program for those.


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## XivoShowjumper

i have always believed it was unneccessary to judge, name&shame, or be plain rude to strangers on the internet-- i would consider this forum a fairly close-knit community- so thankfully its not often i see rude posts- but yes they do exist- and i would love to join this cause

but i will continue to remain polite regardless of whether i have a badge or not


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## omgpink

I wanna join! I agree with this below



bubblegum said:


> sometimes i get scared to post some threads as i dont know how people will react to my silly questions


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## Gidji

I'll join. What a great idea, JDI! Although, I will stick up for what I believe is right, I will now do it in a polite manner!  And I promise to use more smiley faces in my posts to make it seem friendlier.


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## rocky pony

can I still join?


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## ChingazMyBoy

I've Pm'd you JDI, and it was a rather short PM so you may of just gotten confused, I would really like to join. I think its an excellent idea, where will the badge show up


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## horseoffire

I would like to join.


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## White Foot

Yes, I agree. When I came back after not posting for awhile, right away I noticed the attitude. D;


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## wild_spot

I guess it depends on how you conduct yourself. Personally, I have never had bad attitude directed my way, or felt insulted or intimidated while on this forum - except for one person.

If you think about how you word your threads you shouldn't get flack. If you provide all the information in a clear and concise way, you don't attract attitude. I can say that I have never had a negative response to any one of my threads, and I think it says something about the thought I put into posting.


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## LoveMyDrummerBoy

Well, this is coming from a nubie forumer but is it possible to delete posts and /or threads?


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## Sunny06

You have to contact a moderator in order to.


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## LoveMyDrummerBoy

contact like pm? I didn't say anything mean or anything i just want to take one off that the problem has been resloved (enough)


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## Sunny06

Yes, you have to pm the mods and ask them to remove it for you


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## LoveMyDrummerBoy

Thanks so much!!


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## my2geldings

NorthernMama said:


> Wow. I have totally avoided this thread up to now. Partly I've been too busy but also partly because I thought it was going to end up being a love-fest and I'm far too much of a realist for that kind of nonsense. Thankfully, I see it is not all about being sacharin-sweet. (spelling?)
> 
> There have been many comments about saying something nice first and then the negative critique. That's nice to do. But if I don't do that, am I now rude? Not in my opinion. Blunt maybe, but not rude. I was raised with old German training and was taught from the earliest that we should say what we mean and say it clearly without flowers and sugar. Some people find that rude. Others find it efficient. Although, after 20 years of training from my East-Indian (read EXTREMELY POLITE) in-law, I have softened a lot.
> 
> And, as pointed out by another poster, rudeness can be in the mind of the reader. We humans have a hard enough time communicating face to face and now here we are trying to do it with text. Not an easy task so the responsibility for etiquette lies with the poster AND THE READER. Maybe if there are etiquette badges for posting, there should be salt shakers for readers to remind them take things with a grain of salt when needed.
> 
> I too, was uncomfortable with the "farting butterflies" remark, but I glossed over it. Just not important enough to get upset over just because I personally don't like the word "fart". (Just a thing I have.) Generally I find that poster to be polite and she certainly didn't intend to insult anyone with it. So it also about knowing the person that is posting and that takes time. It's about building relationships. Which brings another wrinkle into this: there are some people here that have posted for a very long time and have stronger relationships with people so can say things in certain ways that could be considered rude by an "outsider" or "newcomer". There are also people here that actually meet in person regularly. Again, that determines different responses in threads that someone else might not understand correctly.
> 
> I don't need a badge to be polite, I don't need a badge to set an example, I don't need a badge to remind me. And I most certainly don't need to have a badge so someone else can judge me and take it away. So, I won't join the identified club. If you all are having fun with it though -- terrific. I don't do carrots either.


Extremely well written, hope everyone gets to read your post. Hope it will make some readers think of the way they read threads. Loved your refreshing post!


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## ridesapaintedpony

Count me in.


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## Becca93

I finally found this thread! and would love to join!


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## Plains Drifter

I would love to join. I don't mind a good debate, but I think it shows alot of class when people are polite and respectful. I grew up down south and it was definately expected from me.


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## Painted Hotrod

I kind of blew up on someone









I couldn't help ittttt


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## speedy da fish

i think i will join you on this! i want HF to be a friendly place to talk about the subject we all LOVE! debate is fine, but yes there is 'meanness' that i dislike.


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## iridehorses

I'll send in your request. Glad to have you join us!


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## maura

Me three!


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## smrobs

Wow. I, like Northernmama, have kindof avoided this thread for a while. I don't really know why. I know that sometimes I have been snarky but I've been working on doing better. Wording my posts and instead of jumping to conclusions, I try to ask more questions so that I can get as much of the story as possible first.

If I am not too late, I would like to add my pledge as well. I promise to try to do better.


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## JustDressageIt

I have sent a message to Admin, Maura and smrobs - glad you could join us! Again, I'm not discouraging debate, I'm trying to discourage personal attacks and jumping to conclusions when the whole story hasn't been investigated


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## smrobs

Awesome Allie, thanks.


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## BurningAmber520

Would love to join! I think I am always polite! I try to avoid confrontation and always try to give advice in a friendly manner!


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## iridehorses

It's really nice to see this movement growing - thanks Allie for starting it.


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## JustDressageIt

I'm very happy it's caught on!


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## speedy da fish

me too


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## ilovestitch

I would also like to be an etiquette pledger! I have noticed a change in all the boards here since this group has started and i would love to be a part of it.


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## southerncowgirl93

I would love to be an Etiquette Pledger! I agree, for a while there, things were kinda bad. :/


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## JustDressageIt

I am just tickled pink that this has caught on, and more importantly that people are noticing a change!!


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## ilovestitch

How can I become an etiquette pledger?


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## Kentucky

It has been an improvement and great work everyone.


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## Fowl Play

I wouldn't mind being an ediquette pledger as well.


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## Dartanion

Could I also be an ediquette pledger!!!! please please please


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## fire walker TWH

wheres the ladder to get up onto the band wagon? I want a snazzy star emblem too, so how do i get it? i plan on doing my best to be nice to everyone while still expressing myself to the best of my ability so is that a good enough pledge of etiquette?


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## RusticWildFire

For those of you who haven't received your badge, it would probably be best for you to PM the Admin and let him know you are interested.


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## Annaland13

I want to be a pledger!


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## charlicata

I would like to be a pledger, too. Please?


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## JustDressageIt

Hey guys, can you please PM me if you would like to pledge?


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## Lunachick

I've not been here very long, but I've noticed quite a bit of rudeness. I'm not sure if it's intentional by some people, but sometimes people can be a bit condescending. Most people here are very nice, but there's a few comments which can be a bit overboard.


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## JustDressageIt

I think it's time for a Bump!


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## thunderhooves

or a new thread! this ones old. maybe post a new one about it?


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## centrestableswendy

Count me in Allie. I know I've been on the receiving end of some nastiness that has caused me to stop posting for advice. However, I've also been on the receiving end of some wonderful HF members who got me through a rough patch with kind words and prayers and even the gift of tack. I enjoy coming here to learn, and want to continue to do so. I don't think I've ever been nasty to anyone, definitely not intentionally, but if I've ever offended anyone, you have my sincerest apologies.


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## JustDressageIt

thunderhooves said:


> or a new thread! this ones old. maybe post a new one about it?


I think this one just needs to be bumped from time to time; it has all the info and original discussion


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## MIEventer

> Count me in Allie. I know I've been on the receiving end of some nastiness that has caused me to stop posting for advice. However, I've also been on the receiving end of some wonderful HF members who got me through a rough patch with kind words and prayers and even the gift of tack. I enjoy coming here to learn, and want to continue to do so. I don't think I've ever been nasty to anyone, definitely not intentionally, but if I've ever offended anyone, you have my sincerest apologies.


You know I wub ya!


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## JustDressageIt

centrestableswendy said:


> Count me in Allie. I know I've been on the receiving end of some nastiness that has caused me to stop posting for advice. However, I've also been on the receiving end of some wonderful HF members who got me through a rough patch with kind words and prayers and even the gift of tack. I enjoy coming here to learn, and want to continue to do so. I don't think I've ever been nasty to anyone, definitely not intentionally, but if I've ever offended anyone, you have my sincerest apologies.


Welcome aboard  If you would be so kind to PM me with a pledge, I'll get your your star


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## smrobs

Wendy, you are too big a sweetheart to have ever offended anyone .

I too have been guilty of some snide remarks and it is probably a good idea to keep bumping this thread up occasionally. Just to remind us to temper ourselves and act like the mature adults that most of us are.


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## centrestableswendy

Awwww, you guys are so sweet. I'm really NOT THAT much of a sweetheart, hahahahaha. Allie, I'll be sending you my pledge ASAP!


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## .Delete.

I cant believe i missed this thread! As alot of you know i can get pretty nasty, i have in the past. But now i try to word things differently, *it doesnt matter what you say its how you say it.* Im a very forward person and i say whatever im thinking when im thinking it. But iv come to learn that it isnt worth getting upset, it isnt worth it to lash out or lash back at someone. It can get pretty frustrating especially when people dont take into considering what you and everyone else is telling them when it comes to the better of them and their horse. But what can you do? Being harsh and bashing people is going to cause the person to be offended more then anything. People are more likely to respond and accept advice that is being offered to them in a kind way rather then a mean way.

The good thing about the internet is there is no such thing as a "slip up" you can re-read, and you must think about what your going to say before you type it. There is no "accidental curse words" perhaps if you are speaking you can let one slip. But i find it hard to believe that it slips when typing.


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## .Delete.

I do think it is getting ridiculous that people are scared to post a question because people are so rude here, i know i have held back a few times to save myself bashing. The "bashers" around here are representing this forum very poorly.


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## HowClever

I must say I have noticed some increasing nastiness just in the short time I have been a member here. I think that the conscientious etiquette policy is fast falling by the wayside. 

There are so many well versed members on here who have fantastic advice to offer. Sometimes it is delivered a little bluntly, other times it is received more than a little rudely. I think people need to take a little more care in what they write and also not be so quick to jump on something somebody else has written. Take a step back, breathe, re-read, reinterpret. 

Unfortunately though, there are some who are downright rude no matter how you try to interpret it.


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## Mike_User

.Delete. said:


> I do think it is getting ridiculous that people are scared to post a question because people are so rude here, i know i have held back a few times to save myself bashing. The "bashers" around here are representing this forum very poorly.





HowClever said:


> I must say I have noticed some increasing nastiness just in the short time I have been a member here. I think that the conscientious etiquette policy is fast falling by the wayside.
> 
> There are so many well versed members on here who have fantastic advice to offer. Sometimes it is delivered a little bluntly, other times it is received more than a little rudely. I think people need to take a little more care in what they write and also not be so quick to jump on something somebody else has written. Take a step back, breathe, re-read, reinterpret.
> 
> Unfortunately though, there are some who are downright rude no matter how you try to interpret it.


Hi Everyone,

Nobody should be scared to post a question here. The purpose of the Horse Forum is to allow members to share their love for horses and learn from one another. We will not allow a member to ruin other members' experiences here. That said, certain members are of course "rougher around the edges" than others, and not everyone is going to word everything exactly the way we'd like them too. There has to be _some_ threshold because we can't run off everyone who doesn't communicate in terms of "rainbows and butterflies", but rest assured that if members are _too_ rough around the edges we will address it with them. If they don't improve their behavior then we will show them to the door.

As I've said elsewhere, members are of course welcome to disagree with one another. However, if anyone is going to disrupt an otherwise pleasant thread where members are discussing their shared interests to do it, it needs to be for a legitimate reason, i.e. education, safety, etc., and not simply to satisfy some urge to be sarcastic, obnoxious, or mean. Civility is all we're asking for.

Thank you very much for your commitments to keep the community a helpful, welcoming place. It will certainly make it easier to identify those members who do just the opposite. Speaking of which, _please_ use the Report Post button when you observe somebody being nasty or otherwise exhibiting the type of behavior that would dissuade members from asking questions. We try to read as many threads as we can, but the fact is that we don't know about most problematic posts unless they are reported.

If anyone has any questions or would like to discuss a specific issue, please start a thread in the Pow Wow forum where a member of the team will be happy to address it.

Thanks,
Mike


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## shmurmer4

Silly internet breaks all the rules of interpersonal communication.


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## Strange

Only because people aren't faced with tone of voice and body language. That truly is the one downfall of the internet, people think that because they're not actually going to meet this person that they can be rude and say whatever they want. 

Unfortunate, really. I know I've always tried to be as delicate as possible in my phrasing so as not to offend anyone while at the same time offering them good advice or giving my opinion. Hopefully more people will realize that the person across the computer screen is a real person as well! Sometimes I feel like we lose touch with that.


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## equiniphile

Is it too late to pledge etiquette?

I've noticed a LOT of unecessary snobbiness and downright rude assumptious remarks lately when two parties on the forum don't agree. I'll be the first to admit that I'm usually not one to sugar-coat when there's a potentially dangerous or rude thread going. I say we try to be less presumptuous and advise in a less forward manner, that way the advisee might actually listen to us, or at least consider what we're saying without having preconceived notions of us just by our tone of....voice?


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## JumpsxGlory

equiniphile said:


> Is it too late to pledge etiquette?
> 
> I've noticed a LOT of unecessary snobbiness and downright rude assumptious remarks lately when two parties on the forum don't agree. I'll be the first to admit that I'm usually not one to sugar-coat when there's a potentially dangerous or rude thread going. I say we try to be less presumptuous and advise in a less forward manner, that way the advisee might actually listen to us, or at least consider what we're saying without having preconceived notions of us just by our tone of....voice?


I agree with this. I think that possibly it could be because it's summer and more people have lots more time on their hands? Or who knows, I know the heat makes me a grump

If it's not too late to pledge etiquette then I pledge as well


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## EmilyAndBalthamos

equiniphile said:


> Is it too late to pledge etiquette?
> 
> I've noticed a LOT of unecessary snobbiness and downright rude assumptious remarks lately when two parties on the forum don't agree. I'll be the first to admit that I'm usually not one to sugar-coat when there's a potentially dangerous or rude thread going. I say we try to be less presumptuous and advise in a less forward manner, that way the advisee might actually listen to us, or at least consider what we're saying without having preconceived notions of us just by our tone of....voice?


I agree with this, too. And I pledge etiquette if it isn't too late.


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## Dani9192

I would like to be an etiquette pledger!


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## Alwaysbehind

JumpsxGlory said:


> I think that possibly it could be because it's summer and more people have lots more time on their hands?


I know this is totally off topic but I just had to say this made me laugh so freaking hard.

More time on their hands?

The only people with more time on their hands in the summer are kids who are out of school with nothing else to do.

I think the average adult type with a job finds the summer months to be extra busy.


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## MIEventer

lol, right Always! I work 2 jobs, plus ride my horse, run a household with a Husband - makes me wish I was back in my school days being able to do diddly squat all day while all my needs were met on a daily basis.


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## Alwaysbehind

Me too!

It seems with the longer days you can do more things. You should not be more flustered since you have more hours in the day and all. But with more hours one seems to schedule that much more which makes those hours be too booked and now you are still too busy plus you have a lack of sleep to go along with it.

:lol:

Being a grown up sucks. Laugh.


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## ridergirl23

Teachers have more time in the summer! and they geet paid too, lol. haha just had to put that job out there.

Haha i find i have been having less and less internet time in the summer because (i am off school) but I amd constantly at the barn, and for a few days im going to my grandmas house (she doesnt have internet, shes to far out in the country to have internet that goes faster then a rock) haha but im guilty of staying up til 12 on the computor when i get home at night :/ lol

i want to be an etiquitte pledger too!!!


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## TaMMa89

Alwaysbehind said:


> I know this is totally off topic but I just had to say this made me laugh so freaking hard.
> 
> More time on their hands?
> 
> The only people with more time on their hands in the summer are kids who are out of school with nothing else to do.
> 
> I think the average adult type with a job finds the summer months to be extra busy.


It depends... Most of working adults (especially in steady employment) have a summer holiday that takes often around a month in summertime, that's how things work at least over here. And then kids are free yes, I think the most busiest people are students etc. who try to work during summers so they've some money in their pocket for the next school year.


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## Alwaysbehind

A whole month off at once? Wow! Noper. Not here.
I actually only get four weeks of paid vacation for the whole year. That is the max I can get too.


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## TaMMa89

Alwaysbehind said:


> A whole month off at once? Wow! Noper. Not here.
> I actually only get four weeks of paid vacation for the whole year. That is the max I can get too.


Of course it isn't a standard in every profession here either, but still very common.


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## Speed Racer

Tamma, the U.S. is quite different from the rest of the world concerning vacation time.

I get a total of 8 weeks vacation a year, but am not allowed to take it consecutively. If I'm lucky I can take 2 weeks at a time, but 1 week is the norm.


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## LoverofHorses

Just found this thread so I hope it's not too late. Count me in!!!


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## mls

TaMMa89 said:


> Of course it isn't a standard in every profession here either, but still very common.


In our state - only the teachers get the summer off. Even then, most of them do some type of odd job to supplement their meager income.


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## LoverofHorses

Alwaysbehind said:


> The only people with more time on their hands in the summer are kids who are out of school with nothing else to do.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe it's just me but, I am busier now then when I'm not on vacation.:lol:


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## TaMMa89

I see and it's interesting to see how it works elsewhere.

I think collective labor agreements regulate it in many fields over here. And if it has been registered in an agreement like that and the field has agreed the agreement, employees have to get their 4 weeks vacation. I've caught that many fields have a clause like that in their agreement. At least many of people I know have a vacation like that (=very prolly they've an agreement like that).

I've also caught that you can agree that you divide your vacation in smaller pieces but many take whole the month at once.


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## kindredspirit

Please count me as an etiquette pledger as well


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## Islandrea

I pledge to be kind and polite as well! May I join?


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