# Can a carriage make a three-point turn like an automobile can?



## jonbailey (May 7, 2018)

There may be a special time to do a tricky maneuver in a tight spot with a horse-drawn conveyance.

A three-point turn in a car involves putting the car in reverse and backing up.

I would like to see a good video showing trick maneuvers with horse-drawn vehicles including backing and tight turns. 

There may be time when a carriage, wagon or coach needs to turn around on a narrow street or when it comes to a dead end.

I did find this impressive turn-about film from England. The horse team is side-stepping about much like Amish farmers do to make their plow horses turn around at the end of a row in a crop field but the carriage never once backs up. It must take a driver of great skill.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

The tricky part is the backing up.






A U-turn goes like so:






The elements can probably be combined.


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## jonbailey (May 7, 2018)

mmshiro said:


> The tricky part is the backing up.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FsPPhYZsZg
> 
> ...


The side-step command is HAUL?


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

^ I bet you're hearing "Haw" (move left) as compared to "Gee" (move right)


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Here's the 'docking' maneuver the delivery and dray wagons used to do. You start with the wagon parallel to the dock, then swing the team so the back of the wagon ends up against the dock for loading/unloading and the team swings around to be out of the roadway.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5GUJv3c1-Ahttp://


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## jonbailey (May 7, 2018)

SilverMaple said:


> ^ I bet you're hearing "Haw" (move left) as compared to "Gee" (move right)


Are the horses trained to side-step on tight turns or do they do that instinctively?


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Here's a better one explaining how the horses are driven in the big hitches.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

jonbailey said:


> Are the horses trained to side-step on tight turns or do they do that instinctively?



They learn to do it. Driving horses are taught not to bend around the turns like a saddle horse would. You want them straight and stepping over. They learn quickly when first being driven in order to keep from hitting the shafts and pole. 



This view from the wagon is impressive. Watch how the leaders come around on the turns tightly and exactly where he wants them. Very skillful driving here.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

And for some fun--- four-in-hand competitive driving.... these guys are nuts.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

How tight you can turn a carriage, and how easily it reverses is largely dependent on the carriage itself. A 2-wheeled cart is extremely maneuverable. A 4-wheel carriage is less so, and won't be able to do sharp turns if the wheels will hit the body of the carriage, so are limited to wider turns. A carriage or wagon where the wheels run under the body of the carriage when turning, or a 5th wheel, can turn much tighter, but is also harder to back in a straight line and prone to tipping if you overbalance it to one side. If you go to a show with driving/hitch classes, each entry is required to back at least a few steps in the class. It's quite a sight to see at the big draft shows, to see all six or eight horses backing in unison to move the wagon straight back and straight forward again. Even more impressive is when they bring all the hitches back in together for final placings, then may want a drive-off so 3 or 4 will pull out, drive a few laps, then pull back in at a trot into a space you'd be hard-pressed to get a golf cart into on the first try....


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

@silvermaple, i’ll Take your team and raise, I mean lower you Shetlands...


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Driving ponies would be a barrel of fun. We had a mini for several years that I broke to drive. He was so much fun to take for a trot down the road on a nice evening.


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## elzilrac (Nov 12, 2017)

I don't really have anything to contribute, but I just wanted to say that WOW :eek_color: this is the COOLEST thread! Amazing videos!!! Especially that four-in-hand competition. I was holding my breath through some of those turns, could not even believe it was real. How amazing it would've been to see live!


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I always liked this video:


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