# Barrel Prospect...



## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

You've asked this question I think twice before, at least. The answer isn't going to change. 99% of horses can pretty much do anything at the lower levels. She will be just fine for local shows and rodeos, may even hold her own in NBHA. Also, when she starts squealing/kicking/bucking make her work harder. Pop the whip behind her or on her butt if you have to.
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## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

kassierae said:


> You've asked this question I think twice before, at least. The answer isn't going to change. 99% of horses can pretty much do anything at the lower levels. She will be just fine for local shows and rodeos, may even hold her own in NBHA. Also, when she starts squealing/kicking/bucking make her work harder. Pop the whip behind her or on her butt if you have to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think I have only asked once before, and not quite the same question. When she does, I ignore it, and continue lunging her, but harder and make her go the way SHE wants to go, and make it so it is harder work, giving her the option to go my way, and make it easier. 

She gets the hang of it eventually. By the end of the day, she is nicely walking and trotting circles around me. I don't do it much because of joints though.


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## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

No. You make her go where you want her to. Not the other way around. If you let her go wherever she wants, that is a win on her side. Doesn't matter if she's running hard or not. You are in control of her feet 100% of the time. Not fifty, not twenty five or ninety eight... Doing other wise is inconsistent, and I believe, will be more trouble down the road. 

Why in the world are you even using a stirrupped bareback pad, anyway? Those things are dangerous. And I sure wouldn't like some floppy stirrups banging on my sides, either. 

You posted the exact same thread under training... Its spam.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

Regardless, conformation does not usually change. Legs may straighten as the horse widens but angles will pretty much stay the same. By ignoring her and letting her do what she wants you're teaching her that she CAN do what she wants. My gelding doesn't like to lunge to the right, he constantly tries to turn around or shoot through the middle. Doesn't mean I let him, though. I turn him MY way and make him do what I want. Otherwise he'll just take advantage, like very many young horses.
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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

She would be alright for 4h is basically what everyone is saying. That opinion isn't going to change no matter how many times you post the same question.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Breezy2011 said:


> I think I have only asked once before, and not quite the same question. When she does, I ignore it, and continue lunging her, but harder and make her go the way SHE wants to go, and make it so it is harder work, giving her the option to go my way, and make it easier.
> 
> She gets the hang of it eventually. By the end of the day, she is nicely walking and trotting circles around me. I don't do it much because of joints though.


Allowing naughty-ness on the lunge line, especially with young ones. Often translates into naughty-ness under saddle.


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## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

Yup. Whay delete and kassirae says. 

I've worked with a gelding who detests lunging, and will literally wrap the lead rope around his neck as he has "learned" it makes him stop lunging. I have to effectively push him out and pull his nose in before he pulls that stunt. Otherwise, he fights it with a buck and a crow hop or a what have you. 

It doesn't stop me from making him work and driving him even more. He can act like an *** all he wants. It won't change the fact I'm demanding his respect.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I agree with the above. I have a gelding who used to like to buck, crow hop and rear on the lunge line. He once tried to rear, twist and kick all at once in a deep area of the arena the result was him falling over. Once he got up he still had to go back to working the same direction he was going before he wigged out. Things got easier when he figured out all being a weenie on the line did was make me curse and work him harder in that direction. He hates going to the left, so he works to the left a bit. When he is good to the left he is rewarded by being allowed to stop and turn around and go to the right. 

I am balls at conformation so I won't say much on that account.


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## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

First of all, I use the bareback pad to get her use to a girth and sturrips, I do not RIDE in it, I use it as a training tool. Secondly... It is what a lot of horse trainers say to do. If a horse wants to do something you don't want them to do, make them uncomfortably and harder for them, let them choose the easy way. For example, if a horse doesn't want to leave the barn, let them stay at the barn, but make it hard work and uncomfortable for them, then take them to where YOU want to go. I know what I am doing.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

No, you make the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard. Which is NOT what you're doing. You're allowing her to do what SHE wants. If she's going to buck or kick out, I'd personally give her a good wallop on the butt with the whip. Kicking out is a big no no and huge sign of disrespect.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

.Delete. said:


> She would be alright for 4h is basically what everyone is saying. That opinion isn't going to change no matter how many times you post the same question.


I am not planning on doing 4h, I am planning on entering her in horse shows and rodeos around saskatchewan. Not just 1 horse show every summer, but 4 for sure, maybe more, including a big horse show in Saskatoon. I will be entering her in Halter, showmanship for the first year, then I will be entering her in western pleasure also, then when she is 4, I will enter her in gymkanna along with western pleasure, halter and showmanship. Maybe some reining when she is in her late 3s.


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## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

I was just thinking the same thing, kassierae, but was unsure how to state it. Thank you. 

When a horse effectively chases another off, they are not caring a dime about how much energy they are expending. They are doing what they want.


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## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

kassierae said:


> No, you make the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard. Which is NOT what you're doing. You're allowing her to do what SHE wants. If she's going to buck or kick out, I'd personally give her a good wallop on the butt with the whip. Kicking out is a big no no and huge sign of disrespect.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I do make it hard for her. That is what I am trying to say! You would have to actually see me to know what I am trying to say. When she bucks or jumps, I push her harder, I wack her, and continue on. 

This is the only thing, sometimes, not all the time, that she has a problem with, and I work with her almost everyday, and only rarely will she do that.

Like I said, I am working on it, she is getting better, and now does not do that as much as she did when we started. I have gotten trainers out and THEY even tell me to do that. Professional trainers!

I do not work her long on the lunging because of her joints.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Breezy2011 said:


> I am not planning on doing 4h, I am planning on entering her in horse shows and rodeos around saskatchewan. Not just 1 horse show every summer, but 4 for sure, maybe more, including a big horse show in Saskatoon. I will be entering her in Halter, showmanship for the first year, then I will be entering her in western pleasure also, then when she is 4, I will enter her in gymkanna along with western pleasure, halter and showmanship. Maybe some reining when she is in her late 3s.


It's good that you have a desire to do something with your horse. One piece of advice I will offer, in terms of the reining I would send her to a trainer or work with one.....it's a skill that's really easy to mess up, but once you and your horse has it it can really help with a lot of other things.....as to what she's suited for, time will tell, but start with halter and showmanship and work from there. I always recommend getting a good reining foundation on a western horse anyway, even if they're not good at it it still applies to a lot of other western disciplines


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

Not a problem...I see it so often and people get hurt when things are done incorrectly or by someone with limited knowledge and no trainer. Now, I'm not the be all end all and my horse has issues but he darn sure has ground manners! I do NOT accept any form of disrespect, he's almost 16 hands and BIG bodied...I'm 5'3" and 115 lbs...but you better believe it that he doesn't DARE put a hoof out of line with me.
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## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

Muppetgirl said:


> It's good that you have a desire to do something with your horse. One piece of advice I will offer, in terms of the reining I would send her to a trainer or work with one.....it's a skill that's really easy to mess up, but once you and your horse has it it can really help with a lot of other things.....as to what she's suited for, time will tell, but start with halter and showmanship and work from there. I always recommend getting a good reining foundation on a western horse anyway, even if they're not good at it it still applies to a lot of other western disciplines


Thank you, I was planning on getting a trainer to come out (not a big time trainer, but she trains her own horses, and sometimes other peoples too) when it is time to start her dicipline training. Maybe getting her to come out when I break her, so she can instruct me and tell me what I am doing wrong.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

That is a very good idea. I started my gelding when I was 20, and he was 2 year old stud. I did all the work, however I had the guidance of my grandmother, who's been doing this for 35+ years. For over a year I did NOT ride him unattended, too much can go wrong with babies. He had the best temperament, and was easy as pie, but there's still that chance. I'm now 24, and I still seek the guidance of my grandmother and may even be sending the brat out for a 60 day refresher this year. I've been around horses and barrel racing all my life but I can still admit when I need a trainer or guidance.
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## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

kassierae said:


> Not a problem...I see it so often and people get hurt when things are done incorrectly or by someone with limited knowledge and no trainer. Now, I'm not the be all end all and my horse has issues but he darn sure has ground manners! I do NOT accept any form of disrespect, he's almost 16 hands and BIG bodied...I'm 5'3" and 115 lbs...but you better believe it that he doesn't DARE put a hoof out of line with me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My horse has NEVER kicked at me, she has given me warnings a long time ago when I got her, I corrected her and she hasn't since. She has great ground manners, lunging is what we are working on right now. 

Breeze will stay out of my space unless I invite her in, she backs up, picks up feet, follows me around, leads, ties, yields to pressure, etc.

I said she is having an issue with lunging, but we are WORKING on it, and she is getting the point across her head that I am the boss and leader, and she has to respect me. She has my trust and I have hers, and I have her respect and she has mine.

I am very strict with her when she does something wrong. I won't even let her eat hay until I allow her to. I make her stand away until I say.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

As I have always said and said to many people, if you have to correct a horse more than two or three times max, you aren't correcting effectively enough. It's good that you're working on it, but if she continues she's really testing you and you NEED to get harsher. You stated yourself in your OP that she jumps, bucks, kicks and squeals. While she is young and I would expect that out of a youngster, it's still not allowed(to me, anyway). I also don't really lunge except to get them used to tack for a few weeks and sometimes to judge what kind of mood Chopper is in BEFORE I get on. I don't like lunging. Makes me dizzy and I'm a klutz.
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## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

Disrespect is disrespect. That same gelding I referenced earlier does all of that and more. Yet still has the nerve to pin his ears and turn his butt. This spring he's going to have a big wake up call.


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## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

kassierae said:


> That is a very good idea. I started my gelding when I was 20, and he was 2 year old stud. I did all the work, however I had the guidance of my grandmother, who's been doing this for 35+ years. For over a year I did NOT ride him unattended, too much can go wrong with babies. He had the best temperament, and was easy as pie, but there's still that chance. I'm now 24, and I still seek the guidance of my grandmother and may even be sending the brat out for a 60 day refresher this year. I've been around horses and barrel racing all my life but I can still admit when I need a trainer or guidance.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know when I need help. I have got that trainer out to help me, and still ask her questions, she comes out when I need her. I am wanting to do Breezes training myself, because I will be the one riding her.

I don't see the point of having your horse go to a trainer when they are first being broke if it is going to be you riding it, because you need to get them to realise that they have to respect YOU. At least if you have a knowledge. If you don't, well, get a broke horse, not one that will have to be broke.

Do you get what I am saying? I am saying overall, I know when I need someone to help, but I will be doing the training myself, with guidence when needed.


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## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

Deschutes said:


> Disrespect is disrespect. That same gelding I referenced earlier does all of that and more. Yet still has the nerve to pin his ears and turn his butt. This spring he's going to have a big wake up call.


I know what you are saying. I know disrespect is disrespect. I am saying, Breeze has respect for me, but will have off days. Mainly when she does this, is when it is windy, snowing, really cold, or after she just ate.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Breezy2011 said:


> Thank you, I was planning on getting a trainer to come out (not a big time trainer, but she trains her own horses, and sometimes other peoples too) when it is time to start her dicipline training. Maybe getting her to come out when I break her, so she can instruct me and tell me what I am doing wrong.


I like your attitude....it's changed and matured a lot since we first 'met'. Keep up the learning, you can never learn enough


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## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

And by "does all of that and more" I mean:
Completely bomproof 
been there done that
Yields front and hind quarts
Stops
Jogs in hand
Leads perfectly
Gives feet when asked
Stands nicely
Side passes 
Stands perfect for the farrier
Yields to leg pressure, etc. 

He does everything I ask and more. But again, feels the need to pin his ears and turn his butt and glare when I groom/tack him


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Deschutes said:


> And by "does all of that and more" I mean:
> Completely bomproof
> been there done that
> Yields front and hind quarts
> ...


That's exactly what my turd does!!!:lol:


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

Trust me, I've been your age and felt the same way. I also know that everyone has to start somewhere, but I also think that ALL horses should have experiences with other people and be ridden by other people. Yes, my gelding is mine and I am the one who rides him. But I do not have the capabilities to turn him into more than a trail horse/mid level barrel horse and while at your age I felt I could do more, I now realise I cant. I simply do NOT have the experience, even now 5 years later. He has some holes in his training that I do not know how to fix, mainly because at that age I was c.ocky and thought I could do it all. Boy was I wrong! Trainers are a GOOD thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

Deschutes said:


> And by "does all of that and more" I mean:
> Completely bomproof
> been there done that
> Yields front and hind quarts
> ...


That is something you will need to work on then, just like I am working on lunging with Breeze. Every horse is different.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Deschutes said:


> And by "does all of that and more" I mean:
> Completely bomproof
> been there done that
> Yields front and hind quarts
> ...


Forgot to say that except when I come with the saddle he's fine or else I start swinging with my foot because my hands are holding the saddle


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## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

kassierae said:


> Trust me, I've been your age and felt the same way. I also know that everyone has to start somewhere, but I also think that ALL horses should have experiences with other people and be ridden by other people. Yes, my gelding is mine and I am the one who rides him. But I do not have the capabilities to turn him into more than a trail horse/mid level barrel horse and while at your age I felt I could do more, I now realise I cant. I simply do NOT have the experience, even now 5 years later. He has some holes in his training that I do not know how to fix, mainly because at that age I was c.ocky and thought I could do it all. Boy was I wrong! Trainers are a GOOD thing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know trainers are a good thing. I will probably get a trainer out for Breeze also, for a refesher when she is broke. By that I am saying, if you don't have the knowledge or the guidense to do it yourself while breaking, you should get an older horse.

I do have the knowledge to break a horse, BUT with guidence. I will be getting someone out, I am positive of that, to instruct me and tell me what I am doing wrong when I break Breeze, but I will still be the one on her.


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## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

Yeah! Shooter still gives me the "why can't I just be retired" look or otherwise the "oh, its you again" look. 

Obviously it is something to work on, but its not so much an issue as he's a COMPLETELY BROKE HORSE. He's just an *** sometimes, and he knows he better behave or he's going to have a hail mary. 

The point of stating that is a horse can do everything you ask and more, but still disrespect you and be beligerent twats.


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## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

And yeah, that probably sounded counter intuitive. But I've never once had him kick at me,


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Deschutes said:


> Yeah! Shooter still gives me the "why can't I just be retired" look or otherwise the "oh, its you again" look.
> 
> Obviously it is something to work on, but its not so much an issue as he's a COMPLETELY BROKE HORSE. He's just an *** sometimes, and he knows he better behave or he's going to have a hail mary.
> 
> The point of stating that is a horse can do everything you ask and more, but still disrespect you and be beligerent twats.


My horse is as broke as they come.....he needs a spell, so I'm getting him so decent turn out in three weeks.....that's his problem!!! He's getting cabin fever!


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## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

Yeah, with shooter he's just lazy and has too much time off. I don't have time to really work him, as well, not my horse, and he's an hour and a half away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_

And by stating prior that he was completely broke, I meant that in a sense that he's been around the block enough to know that certain things bring death and terror-- as he used to be one of those extremely aggressive types. Until he got hit with a frying pan for charging.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

Chopper is pretty broke, he does what I ask and does it happily. No buck or rear(usually). He's just a turd and likes to test. I also want some finishing done on him by a reining trainer. I could easily finish him as a trail horse or barrel horse myself but I do not have the time right now. So off to the trainers it is!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

Yarg. I think with babies, more trouble can occur for not setting the record straight in the beginning. But then again, that could be equal to any horse, no?
_Posted via Mobile Device_

The problem only arose recently when he got worked often. He's probably soured from it, which I don't blame him. But he's a good boy, and very predictable, I just need to stop being lazy and actually dedicate a work day to him. But then again, as I said, come spring he's getting a hail mary.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

Babies are more impressionable, in my experience. Chopper learned early on that biting is BAD and he will DIE if he bites me. Tried it once, got back handed across the snoot and backed up across the pen. Hasn't done it since.
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## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

Right. I have yet to work with babies myself. It would seem to be sooo much easier having a clean slate and if you know what you were doing, rather than fixing poor training.
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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

It is. I very much enjoy babies. I've been the first rider on so many of them, starting when I was maybe 14/15 ish. I put a few rides on them for my grandmother(since I'm little and she doesn't bounce as well...I'm the guinea pig) and she usually finishes them, though the past few just got sold to good homes. She's losing interest in babies and big horses, she does the mini thing now. I love babies. I'd rather work with a minimally or unhandled youngster than a spoiled one.
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## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

I totally hear you. Having no years and no experience beats so many years doing nasty bad habits!
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## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

I like young horses, I got a yearling so I could start somewhere. This is the first time training a young horse, although the very first horse I actually worked with was a weanling, when I was about 6. It was a 4h halter group and I had a weanling, along with about 5 other people. We trained them to be halter broke, lead, tie, touch ears, nose, pick up feet, go over wooden bridges, be caught, etc. The kids did it all, with only guidence from the leaders. I would not call it training though, I would call it learning, and experiencing new things.

I got Breeze so I could start somewhere. She is a great horse, but not papered, and I got her for cheap. I wanted a young horse so I could learn from my mistakes, and use them to my advantage in the future. I am hoping Breeze will be my all around horse, but I know for a fact she won't be perfect. 

In time I hope to become a better trainer, more educated in horses, and learn from the past. I know I have made mistakes with Breeze, but I have fixed them, some needing help from others.

With all respect, everybody is different, and nobody can change a person, or their actions, apperance, or anything about them with only words. 

I am 15 now, I am starting a hopefully successful career in horse training, that will get better down the road. I am looking for as much help as I can get, I am reading books, watching videos, experiencing it myself, talking to trainers, and listening to advice from anyone who knows what it is like to be a 15 year old, whos passion is horses.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Breezy2011 said:


> I like young horses, I got a yearling so I could start somewhere. This is the first time training a young horse, although the very first horse I actually worked with was a weanling, when I was about 6. It was a 4h halter group and I had a weanling, along with about 5 other people. We trained them to be halter broke, lead, tie, touch ears, nose, pick up feet, go over wooden bridges, be caught, etc. The kids did it all, with only guidence from the leaders. I would not call it training though, I would call it learning, and experiencing new things.
> 
> I got Breeze so I could start somewhere. She is a great horse, but not papered, and I got her for cheap. I wanted a young horse so I could learn from my mistakes, and use them to my advantage in the future. I am hoping Breeze will be my all around horse, but I know for a fact she won't be perfect.
> 
> ...


I think you have the right attitude and I'm glad your starting to be a lot more open to suggestion which is a big difference from when you first started on the forum. I can tell your very excited! But from what I'm reading about your lunge sessions I think you need to watch some more video's and read some more books about lunging. Lunging is an art form it takes awhile to get great at it so don't feel discouraged keep practicing!


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## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

You know what, all the more power to you Breezey!!!! I know a lot of people don't agree with that, but heck...it's EXACTLY what I did. I got my mare Missy (in my barn if you'd like to look) for my 13th birthday. She was 3 and BARELY halter broke. I did ground work with her for a year before we could afford to send her to a trainer. We sent her to a trainer because I didn't have the tools in my belt to do it myself...and because my mare was a bit of a psychotic mess when she was young. I rode the school bus out there 5 days a week and that trainer TRAINED ME!! Not so much my horse, but me. She watched and told me what to do and I'd do it. If I needed help, she was right there to step in. That is something I will never be able to thank her enough for. I learned a lot of lessons the hard way, and a couple of them I learned at my horses expense unfortunately. But I'm proud to say that I truly think I would die for my horse. She has given me life on so many different levels and taught me more about myself then any other obstacle I've overcome. You won't regret doing this yourself. I did at times, but now I don't. I messed up on stuff with my mare, but she was patient with me. Now I have a 2 1/2 year old (her filly, actually) that I will be starting this spring. I have WAY more tools in my belt now then when I was 14. Looking back, I would've saved myself a lot of time and trouble had I just sent my mare off for training. But I wouldn't be the horsewoman I am today if I had either.
And now this might peeve some people. But I get what you were trying to say about lunging your horse HARD the way she wanted to go. It's like reverse psychology. I know it sounds totally wrong, but it DOES work!! Why get into a stubborn match with a horse, when you can make them think that they want to do what YOU want them to do? Like I said, I know it sounds wrong and crazy, but it really does work.


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## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

Thanks Army Wife and Peppy Barrel Racer. I am glad someone gets it and I do have to thank a lot of the people on this forum, for making me think things over and try new things. 

With the lunging thing, I know, it does work, as Breeze has responded to that, and would go my way after a few times pushing her the way she wanted to go.

Thank you!


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Well to each there own as far as training. But I personally make the horse go they way I want to go not the way then want to go. If a horse tries to go in a direction I didn't tell it to then I make the horse turn and go the way I want it. Lunging requires control if the horses feet at all times. To me even if your running it hard your still allowing the horse to get the direction it wants also if you do it wrong you can also just be scaring her which doesn't accomplish much in the way if training. You need to block and make her turn the right way. This helping you control your horse on the ground at a distance  I said to read more because or the bucking and kicking at you something's wrong there in your lunging so I suggest learning some more . BE SAFE!
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## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

For the most part i agree with you peppy and that's the sam approach I take with my own horses. I was just saying that reverse psychology does work on most horses. Especially the ones who are more stubborn. Sometimes you've got to change your approach depending on the horse. Just for those who thought it was completely wrong. I was simply trying to say that it does work with particular horses 
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