# New Horse Tried To Lay Down/Roll Over While I Was Riding Him



## littlebird (Jan 22, 2014)

I think you should try to return him now rather than later if you can. 

If you want to be able to ride outside you should be able to do so without having to face a battle (internal and external) of will he or will he not roll. 

While the problem is probably manageable I think you might want to do some intense thinking about what you want to get out of riding. Do you think it is worth it to risk your own safety to try and train this behavior out of this horse? There are many horses out there that would never roll over on their rider under any circumstance. 

As always, check for pain, teeth, and saddle fit.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

How was this horse advertised? Did you ask them about his suitability as a horse to ride outside of an arena?


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## horseposh (Jun 29, 2014)

Thanks guys. In response- I want to be able to ride him around outside, we don't have a stable, and I'd love to trail ride.. I got him from an organization called (name removed to preserve privcacy) and I'm not even sure if I could get a refund/how that works. I love this horse so much he's so beautiful and I love his personality and everything about him, up until I tried riding him, it was a complete shock to me and I'm pretty surprised and upset by this.. 

He was advertised as being very ride-able and even ridden by children, however had the tendency to at times be lazy. He also had an accident from the previous owners who had a piece of jagged metal in his run in where he severed an artery and lost three quarters of his blood, and miraculously survived- this was about 5 months ago.


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

Just because a horse tries to drop and roll doesn't mean it's a dangerous horse. Any horse can do it at any time. There are several things that can trigger a horse to do it. Was the horse sweaty? How were the flies and mosquitoes? What was the ground like that you were riding on? Was there any debris under the saddle pad?

Some horses rarely do it while being rode where some while try consistently. Once it does happen, you just have to be aware that the horse may try it and watch for the signs: sniffing the ground, pawing the ground, or spinning/turning in a spot. 

If the horse tries or starts to show signs, get him moving. If he does start to go down, kick, yell, or even spank his but with a crop or the reins. Just be ready for him to jump up or forward, possibly what he did when you thought he reared. 

Horses like to roll in loose dirt, sand, grass and water. They will roll because they are sweaty, because flies are bad, because they have an itch, and in water to cool off. I don't think he rolled just because you rode him outside the arena.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## horseposh (Jun 29, 2014)

I didn't think that it would matter, but this actually happened to my mother and not me, it's our horse and she wanted to ride him first to make sure that he was okay to ride, I didn't specify that it was her and said that it was me because I didn't think that it would matter and it makes the story a bit more confusing..


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## horseposh (Jun 29, 2014)

usandpets said:


> Just because a horse tries to drop and roll doesn't mean it's a dangerous horse. Any horse can do it at any time. There are several things that can trigger a horse to do it. Was the horse sweaty? How were the flies and mosquitoes? What was the ground like that you were riding on? Was there any debris under the saddle pad?
> 
> Some horses rarely do it while being rode where some while try consistently. Once it does happen, you just have to be aware that the horse may try it and watch for the signs: sniffing the ground, pawing the ground, or spinning/turning in a spot.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply. So just because he did this it doesn't make him a dangerous horse? As I said in my updated post this actually happened to my mom, not me, I just spoke about what happened in the first person to make it less confusing.. My mom ended up getting a concussion from the incident and is now telling me that he is very dangerous because of this and that he isn't going to work out.. This absolutely breaks my heart because I love this horse and I was so surprised that he did this.

She thinks that him doing this means that he is dangerous and that he did it to harm her and act aggressively, etc.. He was doing fine the first 10 minutes in then just started acting up and started laying down - she then jumped off of him before he did- and he then rolled over and as she was laying on the ground reared up towards her and then took off.

So she's not accurate in saying that this incident makes him a dangerous horse? Please tell me more.


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## horseposh (Jun 29, 2014)

You mentioned triggers, etc.. Flies have been a huge problem this Summer, more so than usual, that's one trigger that I can think of and the fact that we just got him and his terrain is different, he is now living with another horse on 5 acres, and I wonder if riding him outside on our land could be a trigger since from what I know he was only ridden indoors in an arena- and did so well and calm enough to the point where he was used as a lesson horse...


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

This is not a big problem at all. He just got hot and sweaty or itchy from flies and did what they do without a rider. He will do it again because he did not get a spanking to let him know it is unacceptable. 

I have a gelding I will never price to anyone. I have had him 12 or 13 years. He is one of my most gentle trail geldings. My granddaughters ride him (age 4 and 6). When I bought Sleepy (I bought him about the same time I bought Happy and Sneezy), He tried to roll the first time we crossed water and got a good spanking. A short time later, we crossed a soft sandy area and he tried to roll again -- and again he got a good spanking with the end of the reins after I stepped off. A short while later, he pawed and thought about rolling when I let him drink from a pond while mounted. Again, he got a spanking -- a lot harder this time. That was 12 years ago and he has not made a mistake since.

Horses try things and it is up to people to show them what the boundaries are. Whether it is rolling while sweaty or uncomfortable from flies or it is stopping and grazing or kicking at a strange horse riding up behind them, it is our job to show them in very plain terms what is not acceptable.

Most horses (not all) put their heads down and most horses paw a time or two before they drop to roll. Watch for these signals and scold for them BEFORE he rolls. If he struck out as he got up, there is a very good chance that he was fighting flies. Some horses are either thin skinned or more sensitive to them and you need to watch for these signals. It is all part of learning to 'read' horses. The 'perfect' horse that has already learned every boundary and never tries to do something that you do not want has not been born yet. He would sure have to do more than that for me to decide he was dangerous when he does everything else right.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

The next time he drops to roll, now that you know about it, jump off and quickly kneel on his neck just behind his head. He will struggle a bit but you're pretty safe there. He will gradually relax. Do not and I repeat, do not let him up until he lets out a big sigh. It could take 5 to 15 min. This means he's resigned himself that he's going to die which usually means a big attitude adjustment when allowed up. Be sure to step well back so he doesn't knock you as he tries to get up. Any time I've seen this done and done it the horse stands quietly when allowed up.


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## Shropshirerosie (Jan 24, 2012)

To the OP, I think everyone has given you sound answers on how to deal with rolling, but I still think this horse is not right for you.

From what you have told me, both you and your mum are relatively novice riders, as neither of you are familiar with a sweaty horse trying to roll - and how to deal with it to make it a non-issue.

I think your mum was scared by the incident and so she now believes that this horse is dangerous. In the wrong hands, any horse can be dangerous and I think from the scant information we now have this horse could be dangerous to you -

- he is nappy (arena sour)
- he doesn't move off the leg as he should when he is asked to move forward
- he doesn't listen to his rider at all, and will attempt to drop and roll with a rider on board
-your mum is scared of what he will do

Any horse can be advertised as 'rideable' and 'has had children on him'. Neither of these mean that the horse is suitable for you.

If you can return him - do.

If you CAN'T return him then you will need to invest in some time with a trainer. All the problems we know about are indeed solveable, and if your mum can get over her fears, and if you are both prepared to learn, then you could have a success.

Good luck with what you choose to do.


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## MinervaELS (Mar 4, 2014)

I agree with Rosie. I know you want to hear what you want to hear, in this case that the horse will work for you, but there are two important things that I haven't seen you elaborate on.

First, how did your mother receive a concussion? Was she wearing a helmet?

Second, what is this horse's history? It sounds like it came from a Saddlebred rescue; is it a Saddlebred? Is it a former show horse? If so, how long ago and what kind of retraining has it received?

I think both of these are important factors.


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## horseposh (Jun 29, 2014)

Shropshirerosie said:


> To the OP, I think everyone has given you sound answers on how to deal with rolling, but I still think this horse is not right for you.
> 
> From what you have told me, both you and your mum are relatively novice riders, as neither of you are familiar with a sweaty horse trying to roll - and how to deal with it to make it a non-issue.
> 
> ...


Thanks, but I wouldn't say that we are novices, my mom has ridden and shown horses for over 20 years and I have shown horses on and off since I was a small child, and I have been around them my whole life.. My mom said that she has never had a horse do what he did while she was riding him before. 

To say that "neither of us are familiar with a sweaty horse trying to roll" is a pretty large generalization, in my opinion, since horses can try to lay down and roll while a rider is on them for far more reasons than just being sweaty. There are dozens of reasons why it could have happened. 

I'm not sure how you could deem this horse not to be right for me based off of the relatively small amount of information that I have given you besides the incident of him laying down and rolling while he was being ridden and then rearing up while the rider was on the ground after they jumped to escape being potentially crushed..

I've grown attached to this horse so I definitely plan to have a trainer work with him.. Thanks for the advice.


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

If your mom has 20 years of experience then I'd say she's probably right. We can't see what happened so we can only speculate but your experienced mother was there. So if your mom deems this horse unsuitable, she's the most likely to be right. No one is going to help you go against your mom especially because she is experienced. If mom says he goes then he goes. When you pay the bills it will be your choice but for now its whatever your mom says.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

I've had horses try and do this before...CHERIE is right. Also, you can really check your horse out when you brush. _Sometimes_ a horse will drop to roll bc of a sore back. You can easily palpate the back and THAT won't irritate your horse even if he HAS a back problem, but you'll know not to ride today. Perhaps if you realize it IS a back problem, you'll get your Vet involved.
Otherwise your horse is relaxed and forgets you are aboard, so it's time to drop and roll and stretch. Good sign of trust. =D


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

horseposh said:


> Thanks, but I wouldn't say that we are novices, my mom has ridden and shown horses for over 20 years and I have shown horses on and off since I was a small child, and I have been around them my whole life.. My mom said that she has never had a horse do what he did while she was riding him before.
> 
> To say that "neither of us are familiar with a sweaty horse trying to roll" is a pretty large generalization, in my opinion, since horses can try to lay down and roll while a rider is on them for far more reasons than just being sweaty. There are dozens of reasons why it could have happened.
> 
> ...


 So, you start out giving us incorrect info and then get defensive about the replies? I would have guessed from the first post you were a very inexperienced new owner. Did anyone actually ride this horse before you bought it? My advice would be to go along with your mom's suggestion, since she has 20 yeas experience.

Good advice given here for anyone experiencing this problem, and has the desire to fix it.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Trying to roll under saddle is not that common a problem and that is because the riders rarely let it happen.

And is your mom's background of 20 years with ASB's?

Many things could be the root of this, but the main thing is this horse, for whatever reason, needs to be taken back to the rescue.

There could be something health related in spine, ribs, could be saddle wasn't fitting right and could be same with bridle.

And the advice about sitting on this horse's head while it is down after trying to roll, is not sound advice for a ASB. That would just make this horse worse.

This horse, if former show horse, may never have been ridden out in the open, or not enough for it to feel secure with new handlers.

How much info did the rescue have on horse?


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

By telling us about this, and not TAS, you are doing that organization a disservice, as it makes them sound like they are adopting out dangerous horses.

And you are doing the horse a disservice as well, horse may not be a good fit with you, or your mother and you not know enough to be working with ASB to begin with.

Don't know if your mother has background with them, but if this horse has already been through a rescue, then it doesn't need any more problems.

Call the rescue and talk to them is what should be done.

Also, if you knew horse had only been ridden in arena, you should have realized that going outside it could be problematic.


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

Willow tried to roll a couple times with me on her when I first got her. Both times we had been on a long trail ride and she was sweaty. I did what ever I could to get her up before she got all the way down, because new saddles are expensive and no way am I going to tolerate that.
Your mom with as much experience as she has couldn't keep the horse from going down. Plus I think you said the horse reared and bolted afterwards. Based on this information I don't think the horse is a good fit.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Still curious about mother getting concussion, did she fall when she bailed and hit head or did horse get her?


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-pictures/riding-pictures-hf-members-436490/page4/#post5696930

Is this the horse you are saying is doing this?


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## horseposh (Jun 29, 2014)

Dustbunny said:


> So, you start out giving us incorrect info and then get defensive about the replies? I would have guessed from the first post you were a very inexperienced new owner. Did anyone actually ride this horse before you bought it? My advice would be to go along with your mom's suggestion, since she has 20 yeas experience.
> 
> Good advice given here for anyone experiencing this problem, and has the desire to fix it.


I wasn't getting defensive.. I was just trying to give the right info since it turns out that specifics were needed.


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## horseposh (Jun 29, 2014)

Palomine said:


> By telling us about this, and not TAS, you are doing that organization a disservice, as it makes them sound like they are adopting out dangerous horses.
> 
> And you are doing the horse a disservice as well, horse may not be a good fit with you, or your mother and you not know enough to be working with ASB to begin with.
> 
> ...


Umm.. I didn't realize that I was doing anyone a disservice, the organization is awesome and full of great people who know what they're doing, and not to mention me and my mother being pals with them even before we got the horse.. I just came here for an unbiased opinion, sorry I didn't lie and tell people things that were untrue, my mother feels that way because of what happened and she knows that it is likely because he is an inside ridden horse that did this because of the shock from being ridden outside in an entirely different terrain.. 

All that we've ever had is ASB's, and he isn't necessarily a rescue, he wasn't abandoned or pawned off or in need of 'rescuing' from an abusive or harmful owner, the original owners were first time ASB owners and inexperienced with ASB's and owning a horse that isn't boarded elsewhere in general, he had a terrible medical accident where he lost a lot of blood and the owners spent all of the money needed (of course as any decent person would) to get him back to good health, they then realized that he wasn't ideal for them because they just wanted a lawn ornament/horse that a small child could ride, so they decided to go to the best **** ASB organization and be sure that they would find him a good owner- which they did by the way.

I didn't do any 'disservice' to this organization which is the best with amazing people who know what they're doing nor did I do a disservice to this horse that I've grown to love very much- just because of a shock reaction to what happened caused me to do the first thing that I could at the time of night that this was posted and attempt to get other horse owner's opinions and tell them about what happened and the situation.. I guess that I was wrong to seek the advice from other horse owners regarding this after this event happened, since it has never happened with any of our horses before and I wanted some advice.. 

Please don't put words in my mouth or insinuate things that are completely untrue and quite frankly pretty insulting.


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## horseposh (Jun 29, 2014)

Palomine said:


> http://www.horseforum.com/horse-pictures/riding-pictures-hf-members-436490/page4/#post5696930
> 
> Is this the horse you are saying is doing this?


No. This is my friend's horse.... I'm pretty sure that since I haven't ridden him yet since the events of last night occurred, and my mother was the first to do so and it turned out the way that it did that I wouldn't have a picture of this very horse on the cliff of a steep hill while posing for a picture..

I don't know why I'm being practically attacked by people here just for asking for advice regarding something that has never happened before and apparently making the mistake of telling people in depth personal details regarding how my mother felt right after she had to go to the E.R. from getting a concussion due to the incident..


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## horseposh (Jun 29, 2014)

Palomine said:


> Still curious about mother getting concussion, did she fall when she bailed and hit head or did horse get her?


She had to bail fast and hit her head.


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

OK so you know what the problem is? Why did you ask what we thought the problem was then?
You did ask for advise... And it was given...
You didn't agree with it.
How is this the forum's fault?
You were given honest opinions about the story you told. We weren't there and we don't know you. We only have your post to judge by. Next time include more information if you don't want assumptions made. Even with details all we can make is assumptions because again no one knows you or the horse. You were also given sound and effective advise on how to deal with the problem.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

In 20 years, your mom has never had a horse try to lay down and roll while being rode?

We've only had horses 8 years and I believe that almost every one of ours has tried that at least once.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

horseposh said:


> She had to bail fast and hit her head.


An experienced rider will know the signs before the horse rolls. It also takes quite some time for a horse to drop down. I've ridden a horse who loved to drop when he was sweaty. Even as a beginner I knew he was gonna do it the first time and although I didn't know how to correct it I did have plenty of safe time to bail. Now I rode an Appy who would literally throw herself on the ground. It was very scary to watch and turned out it was from pain. She had navicular. Thank god she never did it to me but I saw her give my trainer a pretty good concussion and knock the wind completely out of herself and my trainer. Is your horse just dropping to roll or violently throwing himself down?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## horseposh (Jun 29, 2014)

countrylove said:


> OK so you know what the problem is? Why did you ask what we thought the problem was then?
> You did ask for advise... And it was given...
> You didn't agree with it.
> How is this the forum's fault?
> ...


Yes, I was given very good advice in this thread, which I am very thankful for, however the petty down right mean things that were said that anyone would take offense to was something that I took immediate notice of, unfortunately before thanking the people that gave good advice.


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

horseposh said:


> Yes, I was given very good advice in this thread, which I am very thankful for, however the petty down right mean things that were said that anyone would take offense to was something that I took immediate notice of, unfortunately before thanking the people that gave good advice.


No one was mean to you. If that's the case the mods would be monitoring it. When kids or teens ask for advise the adults are always going to give the SAFE advise. No one wants to see you get hurt and while they may seem mean they are coming from experience and with good intentions. This site is very good about stopping any bullying, etc... Its a very positive site when you get to know everyone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## horseposh (Jun 29, 2014)

countrylove said:


> An experienced rider will know the signs before the horse rolls. It also takes quite some time for a horse to drop down. I've ridden a horse who loved to drop when he was sweaty. Even as a beginner I knew he was gonna do it the first time and although I didn't know how to correct it I did have plenty of safe time to bail. Now I rode an Appy who would literally throw herself on the ground. It was very scary to watch and turned out it was from pain. She had navicular. Thank god she never did it to me but I saw her give my trainer a pretty good concussion and knock the wind completely out of herself and my trainer. Is your horse just dropping to roll or violently throwing himself down?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I wasn't there to see what happened, unfortunately, and I only got a second hand story of what happened from someone who was watching, I talked to her to make sure that she was okay after going to the hospital- she mentioned that she's afraid that he's not going to work and that she didn't expect for riding him to result in being dangerous although she expected that he would act up a bit possibly because it was the first time riding him and he hasn't ridden outdoors in quite awhile.


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

countrylove said:


> An experienced rider will know the signs before the horse rolls. It also takes quite some time for a horse to drop down. I've ridden a horse who loved to drop when he was sweaty. Even as a beginner I knew he was gonna do it the first time and although I didn't know how to correct it I did have plenty of safe time to bail. Now I rode an Appy who would literally throw herself on the ground. It was very scary to watch and turned out it was from pain. She had navicular. Thank god she never did it to me but I saw her give my trainer a pretty good concussion and knock the wind completely out of herself and my trainer. Is your horse just dropping to roll or violently throwing himself down?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have one that drops without warning. She just drops and takes a nap. One moment you're riding along fine and the next, there's nothing between you and the ground. Luckily, she's only 14.1 hands so it's not that far to the ground.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## horseposh (Jun 29, 2014)

countrylove said:


> No one was mean to you. If that's the case the mods would be monitoring it. When kids or teens ask for advise the adults are always going to give the SAFE advise. No one wants to see you get hurt and while they may seem mean they are coming from experience and with good intentions. This site is very good about stopping any bullying, etc... Its a very positive site when you get to know everyone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I feel as if the comment about me doing the organization and horse that I love very much a disservice and then the person who did nothing but write a comment of no help or substance what so ever besides claiming that I was being "defensive" when I merely provided more information and corrected misinterpretations- was mean and uncalled for. 

I love this horse and it's a very sensitive thing to me to be accused of doing him a disservice and the organization that is full of great people and friends a disservice.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I hope you either find someone to help you get him able to be ridden our of doors, or perhaps giving him back IS the best idea, whether you love him or not. IF he's spent a lifetime of showing, being an indoor horse and all, and suddenly he is asked to step way outside of his comfort range, it's only fair to be understanding that he will react, and work to make the transition a bit less shocking for him. that would be , number one, not going out alone on him.

was your mom alone? I have to say that any person how has much experience with hroses will know that a new horse might not be comfortable going out on his own, and there's a higher risk there, and it's best to get a ride along horse companinion to minimize this . I would never ride a horse I did not know was trail capable out on the trails first thing.

your mom should be slapping herself up side the head, with that Homer Simpson "DOH" motion. she made a mistake, and she should admit it. We ALL make mistakes, don't we?


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## HarleyWood (Oct 14, 2011)

My paint did that the first time I took him down the trial. He walked fine for a little then tried rolling then rolled I ended up walking him back to the trailer. Sent him to the trainer because we were having issues. When I went to pick him up he said he took him on a 4 mile ride down the road and fought him the whole way but he took him out 3-4 more times. I was told he was a arena horse at age 4 he's now 7 and we will walk around bareback outside. I hand walked him down the road and rode him in the pastures to let him feel like he was in an enclosed area without being in the open. And he's gotten a lot better. He's now my main horse taking over my old horses job. 

He may have an issue with the openness of the outside if he was ridden in an arena all his life and may need to feel enclosed so if you can ride in a pasture to help him get use to it, it could help him.


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

usandpets said:


> In 20 years, your mom has never had a horse try to lay down and roll while being rode?
> 
> We've only had horses 8 years and I believe that almost every one of ours has tried that at least once.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have had horses for 35 years. I've never had one try to roll when I ride.


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## 2BigReds (Oct 7, 2011)

Sahara said:


> I have had horses for 35 years. I've never had one try to roll when I ride.


This has only ever happened to me once in 15 years of riding, and back when I was an advanced beginner. My friend's horse went to roll when a few of us were walking our lesson horses on the track around the barn to cool off and mine thought that it looked like a good idea too! Fortunately I was able to whomp on my horse hard enough that he decided against it after all. :lol: If I hadn't watched my friend's horse go down first though, I don't know if I would have realized what was coming quickly enough to stop it. :shock:

Sorry that was mildly OT, but the main point was that I've never had another horse try to do that with me in the rest of the time that I've been riding. Maybe it's just dumb luck, but I certainly would not have thought that it was a common problem at all. Still not all that inclined to think so. :?

OP, I hope that whatever your mother decides that everything works out for all of you. Lots of good advice has been given and I would just be repeating it if I continued.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I don't think it's very common, either. it's never happened to me, and ive only ever seen someone else have this problem maybe once in 17 years.


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## JennHegg (Jul 2, 2014)

My goodness.. this thread has made me do something I absolutely said I would never do which it to join a horse forum, especially ones with anonymous users! No offense to anyone here... because well..here I am anyway!

So... I would like to just provide my side of all of this since no one will return my texts or phone calls with regard to this horse and I am getting pretty desperate here.

I do work with and am affiliated with a group called Team American Saddlebreds. We work to repurpose Saddlebred horses from bad situations, including auctions, farm dispersals, amish rejects or kill buyers into new homes. However, this horse was not placed through our group other than I did provide a brochure of information about what we do to the buyers. I want to be very clear this was not an adoption. This was a sale. The mother called me and we talked a few times and I mentioned this horse MAY be a possibility but did explain his past, his evaluations from his former trainer/owner, his former owner and the most recent trainer I had placed him with for evaluation. I myself have personally ridden this horse without incident and it was outside. I am not saying that he did not do the things they are claiming, I am just saying I personally have not ever seen any of this bad behavior. I do know he has been described as lazy, a bully, having a bad work ethic and a tester in the past. But I have never heard anyone say he was mean.. the times i have heard of him acting out typically sounded like the person picked the wrong fight with him and it seemed more of a defense mechanism or he was truly just trying to get out of work. Again, when I rode him I established myself in the beginning, recognized quickly he responded best to verbal and both leg aids at the same time, and did not care for any type of crop or whip. So I found what worked and we had no problems. 

I set up for the Mom to come and ride and meet him because I told her he was different and that was in everyone's best interest. So we set up a Wednesday meeting. I arranged to be off work, etc. Late in the week before after corresponding she asked if she could pick him up on Tuesday. I told her I did not feel comfortable with that. I thought it best she meet the horse, ride him, meet the trainer who had been working him and meet the owner. So we left everything for Wednesday. When I met them Wednesday, all very nice and excited, which is always a good sign, with another 35 minutes to drive to the farm, she informed me the trailer would be there to pick him up in 45 minutes. I was really not comfortable with that, but could tell there was no reasoning here. So I suggested that when she spoke to the owner to work out price and arrangement that she consider a 2 week trial period for everyone's best interest. Additionally, I adamantly extended the offer to come to the farm to see him settled in, and be there for the first or as many rides as they wanted. I offered to help with lessons for her younger daughter or work with them however and whenever we could work it out. 

I was not, nor was my organization involved with the terms of the purchase. If it had been through us, and maybe it should have been, I don't know anymore... but we would have required an application with reference checks (although I had 2 on her already) and a contract as well as an evaluation pre-placement. 

So, up until Sunday I had been receiving good updates. I understand they had not ridden him yet. I left my work phone at home on Sunday for a cookout and came home to find messages from people posting the forum link, emails, texts and finally texts directly from the mother relaying events slightly different than what was posted on here. I am not trying to make anyone feel bad, I am not judging I don't care about the he said she said.. I want the horse back. PERIOD. I decided to let things cool down. I am now told by the mother that the horse will be sent to the Amish because he will be worked hard there. 

This is against EVERYTHING I do and she knows this or she should. I will not put this horse back in circulation, I will not place or sell him to anyone as a riding horse, he will either be placed as a companion horse, sent back to his original trainers for evaluation and homing or we will consider any other necessary options at that time. But under no circumstances am I ok with him being sent to an Amish dealer. This horse was already with the Amish once... he has breathing issues when pushed to hard work, that is why the turned him back over to the English to begin with.. that paired with his pore work ethic he will surely be sent through auction after auction, abused, misunderstood, mistreated or sent to slaughter in no time. 

I am told she needs $800 refunded..I offered to have the horse picked up today but I don't have 800. I am working on getting that together or getting someone who can pay it. On one hand she said it's not about the money and then on the other said she knows the amish will give it to her. Since my texts or requests for phone calls won't be returned I am begging that this horse not be sent to the Amish and he be returned. I can have him moved this week... 

No questions asked. I just want this horse back.

Now how does this thing work? Will I get notified if more people post or do I have to keep checking back? Thanks!


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

horseposh said:


> Thanks, but I wouldn't say that we are novices, my mom has ridden and shown horses for over 20 years and I have shown horses on and off since I was a small child, and I have been around them my whole life.. My mom said that she has never had a horse do what he did while she was riding him before.
> 
> To say that "neither of us are familiar with a sweaty horse trying to roll" is a pretty large generalization, in my opinion, since horses can try to lay down and roll while a rider is on them for far more reasons than just being sweaty. There are dozens of reasons why it could have happened.
> 
> .


I go along with inexperience. 

A horse will start to buckle at the knees before going down. An experienced rider, whether they have had a horse do this before or not, will drive it forwards. 

A horse does not just flip itself over onto is side to roll, it goes down knees first, and this takes a second or two, then it flops over. An experienced rider, of caught out, will just step off the horse and not bail out willynilly. 

In many years of riding I have only ever had one horse actually manage to get down with me, that was because I was so busy laughing at several horses rolling with their riders (because they were hot and sweaty after a run following Foxhounds) that I never noticed or felt my horse go down, even then she never got to actually roll because I stepped off and booted her one on the backside.

Having ridden a lot on the beach with riding school horses and ponies, I can honestly state that many of the ponies would take advantage of small riders and try to roll on the sands. They knew it was naughty and knew they would be punished so, it was down to me to have eyes on all, and if I saw one even thinking about it, a stern word from me and my demanding the child drove it forward, stopped the issue happening.


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

JennHegg said:


> Now how does this thing work? Will I get notified if more people post or do I have to keep checking back? Thanks!


I don't know how the default settings are for a new user. You can have an email sent when there are new posts to a thread you are subscribed to. Once you post to a thread, I think you are automatically subscribed to it. To change the email notification, click on user cp, on the left side of the page when you scroll down, you will see edit options. Click on that. Scroll down to default subscription thread mode. There you can select if you want to be emailed or not. I have bookmarked the subscribed thread page which makes it easy to find out if there are new posts on a thread. I hope this helps.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

Well, well, well. And now we have the rest of the story.

To JennHegg... I hope you get this boy back, and soon.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

The lady needs to find out the Amish have no use for the horse and won't buy it at her price. They want horses that can work, not ones with breathing issues. Should she consider sending him to auction, someone should inform her what meat prices are like for horses, that she'll be lucky to get $300. No private buyer wants a horse with breathing issues either.


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## Maya1979 (Feb 26, 2014)

JennHegg said:


> I am now told by the mother that the horse will be sent to the Amish because he will be worked hard there.


Thank you for providing your side of the story. I hope the best interests of the horse will be taken into consideration. Somehow I don't think sending it to the Amish "because it will be worked hard" will accomplish that. :shock:


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

I don't think the horse was evil. I've had horses try to roll with me aboard & some even managed. Sometimes that sandy spot or patch of snow is too much to resist. Some have rolled & it was a simple thing to just stand as they went down while still holding the reins.
I think he was comfortable & just being a horse. If he had never been ridden much outside how could he know it was wrong?
I would sure try to see if there was a real problem before dumping him.
If the OP's mother is dead set on getting rid of him I hope they do give him to the person who wants him.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Interesting thread. First of all, I would have suggested using a crop and giving the ol' boy a bit of a dusting (as in like you do to a rug) on his fanny as he started to get hunchy to roll. Sorry ol' boy.. not acceptable behavior and yes, I have had horses do this.. or rather TRY to do this because I dusted them when they tried, driving them forward and making them think about that instead of rolling. 

That was what I was thinking before JennHegg posted... and saw where these folks were so eager to get the horse they were not really interested in trying him out and taking their time! 

Jenn.. I hope you get your horse back and if you want my real name, just PM me. Glad to share it. Good luck.


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## horselessmom (Apr 20, 2012)

I can't fathom why an experienced horse person (or an inexperienced one, for that matter) would not take the opportunity to ride the horse before buying and rush the purchase to the extend described. Was there a bidding going on? Was he bought dirt cheap? Even then, this just doesn't make sense. What exactly had happened there?? Why was the horse even sold to them? :shock:


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## Chasin Ponies (Dec 25, 2013)

You are absolutely right in thinking that this is a dangerous habit for a horse to get into. I’d rate it right up there with rearing for causing injury to riders! It is not happening because the horse has an itch and wants to scratch it ; It’s a flat out refusal to work and they have figured out that it gets that pesky rider off for good.
I’m not suggesting you try this yourself but there is a solution if you can find the right trainer willing to do it for you.
I have successfully broken 4 horses of rolling while ridden, 3 of which had already hurt their riders quite badly. None of the 4 ever tried it again but the method is absolutely not for anyone who does not have full confidence and experience in dealing with many different horses. Ponies, for some reason are much more prone to doing this so I had plenty of practice as a child before I had to do it to full sized horses.
It’s easiest to do riding bare back, not only because you can actually feel the horse go into the posture of beginning to go down, but also lessens the chance of getting your feet caught in the stirrups. As the horse starts to go down, straddle the body on each side and quickly climb up the neck to the head. Catch them as their body goes flat on the ground and before any rolling begins. Sit on the horse’s head about where the throat meets the jaw and stay there for at least 10-15 minutes. A horse cannot get up with its head pinned to the ground. Saddlebag’s post was good however since I am a small person kneeling on the neck is not enough to keep the horse down.
 Make them lay there with their faces in the dirt long enough for them to figure out and accept that they are stuck. Even though this is a very vulnerable position to the horse and they hate it, they generally will become very calm.
When they are perfectly calm you can get off the head and allow them to stand, but what works best is to quickly and smoothly climb right back to their barrel, straddle it and make them stand up with you on them. The fact that they did not get rid of the rider and the experience of being helpless on the ground seems to convince them to never do it again.


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

^^ I think that is an extreme way to deal with it. If the horse was doing it habitually and nothing else has worked, then I would think of doing this as a last resort.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chasin Ponies (Dec 25, 2013)

usandpets said:


> ^^ I think that is an extreme way to deal with it. If the horse was doing it habitually and nothing else has worked, then I would think of doing this as a last resort.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 It does the horse absolutely no harm except for maybe humiliating them a little.

Sure is better than beating & spurring them to death to make them move and if they are determined to roll, trust me they will.


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

Different strokes for different folks. The only one I've had to kick somewhat hard was my Lucy that didn't respond to anything else. The rest have been a good squeeze and a sharp "Hey!"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## santleky (Jan 20, 2014)

I'm a real believer in Clinton Anderson's natural training methods. In his Walkabout Tours he always works some local horses with problems. At the tour I attended in Jan 2014 one of the horses was lazy and always tried to lay down with the rider. Clinton's advice/training solution was to hit the horse between the ears as hard as you can with the spanker on the end of the macatee reins. Clinton rode the horse in the arena and after a short while sure enough the horse started to lay down. Clinton hit the horse hard twice between the ears with the spanker and that horse stood back up like a bullet. Clinton said not to do anything else--you don't want the horse associate the hits with you, he said just let the horse think every time he tries to lay down his ears clobber him and after a few times he'll get the message and stop.

I'm using his training method on my horse and it's made such a difference in no time.

I hope this helps. Good luck!!!


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

For those of you who think spurs are cruel, THIS is one place where they are useful. "Buster Brown", who within the span of 7 days both stood in the 60 gallon (Rubbermaid plastic) water tank, back leg cocked and would NOT move until the dogs got after him, even after being sprayed with the hose, AND decided that a smouldering fire was a great place to roll, got up faster than I've ever seen a horse rise after he got burned. They are sensitive and spurs WILL push a horse out of dropping to roll.
Btw, he is notorious for pawing and emptying the tank...stinker...


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## ohmyspurs (Jul 1, 2014)

While it may not be "dangerous" in some people's eyes, a horse who unpredictably just lays down when he is done working is seen as disrespectful and definitely dangerous in my eyes. I've been riding for 13 years and have yet to have a horse lay down with me. Try to return him and move on. You want a willing horse, not a lazy horse.


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## Cmck (Aug 3, 2014)

Is this horse going to be having free access to the outdoors when at your place? If so, he should get the rolling out of his system once he realizes he can do this whenever he wants to (of course, without a rider on him!) After my horse had been trailered about 1300 miles to me, and we had to board him for 3 weeks, so he was stalled 24/7, when I rode him in a fenced area the first time he rolled with the saddle on after I dismounted. It could just be that he's been inside exclusively and just needed to roll at an inappropriate time. If everything else is good with this horse I would give it a couple of weeks for him to settle in.


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