# Yearling filly strikes....any suggestions?



## julia1986 (Sep 6, 2010)

Have a yearling filly (8 mths technically) who has been pushy since birth. Started kicking her mother on same day as born to stand still so she could nurse, not a love tap either, this was a full out kick whenever mom didn't want to co-operate. Main issue: she strikes when frustrated (not a new behavior), will strike when asked to stand still too long (only talking maybe 10 seconds being asked to stand), has struck me when in stall filling water bucket, will rear and strike when corrected to not strike and she means to do it with gusto. Don't want to turn her out with our other filly because I am afraid she will hurt her and learn to be even more dominant. She has had a fair amount of handiling, not quite as much as our other yearlings, has been easy to lead etc. Striking seems to be her first instinct when she is frustrated and you really have to mind her all the time and watch for the front feet. Anyone had any issues like this and how did you correct it? Only thing I have noticed different from her to our other babies is she always stayed with mom walking in and out of barn for turn out and did not like to stray at all when she got older as they usually do.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'd carry a dressage whip with me and whenever the thought even crossed her mind, I'd whack her with it...On the leg that she is striking with. Then make her backup or do a bunch of circles.

Although if your not quick or she tries testing you more, you could get seriously hurt. I've dealt with this and it's hard to break but you need to be more dominant then her. If your having a real difficult time, I suggest getting professional help with her. She's going to turn into a nasty mare if this isn't dealt with soon. She's only getting bigger.


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## julia1986 (Sep 6, 2010)

Trainer does deal with her (and she is very experienced), whip on leg does not work, makes her worse. She is bred from difficult blood, not our choice was a rescue mare but mare was only maybe 6 mths along when we got her. This line is usually hot blooded and not mature until later in life.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Honestly, throwing your hands up and saying that it is "just the lines" is enabling the behavior and doing the filly no favors. 
Since you say there is a trainer involved, what has been done with this filly so far (not talking about addressing this issue, talking training in general).


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## julia1986 (Sep 6, 2010)

Not throwing my hands up, just informing that the line has been and is hard to deal with, some very difficult but talented horses over many years of breeding have come from it. She has been halter broke, leads, gets plenty of turn-out, has been vaccinated and wormed, brushed, hosed off in summer when hot, seen farrier, been trimmed, etc. Don't plan on doing any type of "real" training until she is at least two and her joints are more developed and can handle the demands of training.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

My yearling tried picking up a back leg to kick out once when I put a hose on him. He copped a very fast, very rude shock when he got belted across the backside with a dressage whip and made to run backwards faster than he thought possible. That was 5 months ago, and he hasn't even thought about it since. I just need to growl and make him move away, and he will stand stock still and behave for me. 

Small corrections to certain behaviours may work on some horses, but others (most) will need to have a very strong lesson before they click that that behaviour is unacceptable. 
Striking, to me, is one of the most undesirable behaviours a horse can have, it is just so dangerous, you NEED to get on top of it asap. Not a little tap on the leg for striking, but a good whack across the chest. If you leave a mark, don't feel guilty. I'll probably get hammered for saying that by the Parelli and 'friendship training' supporters, but I would sure as hell rather give one quick, MEANINGFUL whack across the chest than get my leg snapped in half or an organ ruptured from getting taken out by a striking hoof. 
At the moment, it sounds like she thinks you're not serious. She needs to know, in no uncertain terms, that you will not tolerate the striking. If she tried to do the same to a horse more dominant than herself, in the paddock, I can assure you that she would be kicked or bitten to kingdom come and would be thinking twice about pulling the same trick next time.


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## julia1986 (Sep 6, 2010)

Tried that with force, doesn't work, as said she will rear and strike, not just strike. Thinking maybe she does need to be turned out with someone older and more dominant but don't want her to get hurt either. Anyone ever try anything that makes noise?


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

julia1986 said:


> Don't plan on doing any type of "real" training until she is at least two and her joints are more developed and can handle the demands of training.


Well I wouldn't worry about it then because by the time you're ready to "train" her she'll have probably killed or crippled you. that may sound pretty hrash but it's **** sure the truth. At eight months it should be pretty easy to correct and if your trainer can't get it done then you better find one that can. If whacking her on the leg makes her worse then you definately shouldn't back off. I would get her on a lead and teach her to move away from me and I would do whatever I had to do to get her to move away. I don't like whacking on the leg. I would whack her on the face and make HER move her feet. If you rub her after the whack then she won't get headshy and even if she does you have bigger problems than headshyness.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

julia1986 said:


> Tried that with force, doesn't work, as said she will rear and strike, not just strike. Thinking maybe she does need to be turned out with someone older and more dominant but don't want her to get hurt either. Anyone ever try anything that makes noise?


Why wouldn't she rear and strike? You've trained her that if she rears you'll quit hitting her and leave her alone.


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## Ace80908 (Apr 21, 2011)

Try with force again, and when she rears and strikes whack her again... Kayty is absolutely right - meet her force with a bigger force and mean it. Our mare and gelding are turned out with my yearling (very late yearling, so only 7 months old) all day, and when she gets too big for her britches, they both will charge her with teeth bared, and spin to give her a kick - we as puny humans can't come close to delivering the "lessons" a yearling gets from the big horses.

My then 6 month old filly struck out at me (out of fear when I first brought her home) and I whacked her with the lead rope across her leg and yelled LOUDLY "OT OT OT!" 

She reared up and struck again and I ran her backwards yelling and popping her until she got back on all fours - then I immediately backed off and gave her that release from all pressure, telling her softly she was a good girl. Then we worked on walk - whoa - back for a few minutes and ended on a good note. That was the one and only time she has ever tried to strike.

I also bring our baby in every night for her feeding, and after she eats she gets tied in her stall briefly and I groom her from head to toe, pick up and tap her feet, lead her up and down the barn aisle working on walk, whoa and back verbal cues, and desensitization with towels, clippers, jackets, etc... I find that as she gains confidence she has fewer and fewer minutes where it looks like she may be thinking about being naughty... 

Maybe your filly just lacks confidence and needs more opportunities to gain it?


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

That filly needs some serious behavior training.
Keep something in mind that if you worry about hitting a horse (so many people do) unless you are using a something excessive (e.g. a baseball bat) you'll be hard press to strike a horse anything close to how hard they strike each other. They bit and kick and smack under the jaw, etc... A lead mare will use the least amount of control needed to get what she wants, but she'll certainly use as much as needed if she feels she must. And they survive all that, so they'll survive you're "kicks", "bite's, etc... easily
If a horse behaves badly (and kicking, striking and biting are behaving very badly) you need to put them in their place and leave no doubt in their mind that they've been disciplined and the bad behavior will always bring that immediate discilpline.. Horses, like people, have their own personalities so what and how much is needed will depend on the animal. The level of discipline will depend on the horse.
e.g. once upon a time my mare would jerk her front foot away, but would always wait until I had a firm grip while doing her feet. Thus throwing me to the ground. Then calmly give me the foot again so she could repeat the bahavior. A jab in the shoulder with the handle end of my hoof pick would stop it. The next day she would do it again. It took about 3 days before she finally concluded that her bad behavior was always going to result in her getting a hard jab in the shoulder. Horses will respect a leader, but you have to be that leader. Or they will be.
With that filly you have a bad situation that can become extremely dangerous if not corrected.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Hmmm, sounds similiar to a 3 yr old filly brought to me for training. This little hag was spoiled rotten however. After 3 days, she had no kick, rear/strike out left in her. I made her feel like she was going to die after the 1st day, she kicked out at me repeatedly, I whipped her good, so she kicked quicker. Finally I hauled off & booted her back (I was at my wit's end, & it was getting dangerous), shocked the snot out of her. She stopped kicking for the rest of time that day. Next day, she was back at it after about 10 minutes of me grooming her, I booted her again, very hard, I was choked, she never kicked again with me. Third day, I was lunging her, she snitted out, turned to me, reared up & struck out. I turned the lunge whip around to the handle end & beat her front legs back to the ground. After that, she was fine. I took her to a fall fair & exhibited her for her owner, a weekend show, both english & western & we won every class.


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## julia1986 (Sep 6, 2010)

She's had all of the ground work required of a filly this age. At eight months it should be easy to correct, but it isn't, hence I am asking for suggestions that people have applied to correct the behavior because a whip, backing her up, etc. does not work. The ones who have suggested a method, thank you, to the others, I know it's dangerous behavior and that's why I am looking to fix it EARLY. I don't believe in hitting a horse in the face, period. She has been corrected on numerous occassions with all the methods mentioned (sorry, still not hitting her in the face though). If you don't have a method that has been tried and has shown improvement then don't comment.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Every comment giving a suggestion has been tried, tested and given a positive result. 
We do not know what you have tried, no one here is a mind reader. If you don't want advice, keep doing what you're doing.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

julia1986 said:


> She's had all of the ground work required of a filly this age. WRONG. She obviously has NOT, since she is totally disrespectful and truly dangerous.At eight months it should be easy to correct, but it isn't, hence I am asking for suggestions that people have applied to correct the behavior because a whip, backing her up, etc. does not work. The ones who have suggested a method, thank you, to the others, I know it's dangerous behavior and that's why I am looking to fix it EARLY."Early" would have been a LONG time ago-like making her think she was going to die the instant she tried it the first time on you. I don't believe in hitting a horse in the face, period. She has been corrected on numerous occassions with all the methods mentioned (sorry, still not hitting her in the face though). If you don't have a method that has been tried and has shown improvement then don't comment.


If she is made to move her feet she cannot be rearing and striking. MAKE HER MOVE! You are obviously NOT making an impression on her at all, and she is basically giving you the finger every time she decides to get ****y, let alone act like this! You have allowed it. You need to be prepared to use WHATEVER FORCE IS NECESSARY to stop the behavior. HEr punishment needs to be fast and harsh. I am not saying beating on her for a long period of time-but she obviously has your number, and up until now you have been tapping her here, yanking her there....basically nagging her, which she has learned to ignore. Punish her once and punish her good. Do what you want about hitting her in the head, but I will say she obviously doesn't care much about yours. WHen one of mine even tries to act a fool or even thinks about it-they know in no uncertain terms that it is NOT acceptable. All I have to do now is use "the voice" and they stand stock still. Doesn't happen often. 

THink of it this way-if it is you or her, who will it be? Either she is going to whoop you and whoop you good, or you need to be the dominant mare and let her know it!

I would also agree you need a new trainer. She has this ones number.


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## julia1986 (Sep 6, 2010)

Stated at least twice the whip has been used (frequently), and with force. It's a buggy whip so trust me, it makes a point. I would rather not have to beat the snot out of her everytime she comes out if the stall if at all possible. If that is what it takes so be it, still looking for alternatives.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

PS-I know you are new here, but posts like this really frustrate me, and I think others also. WE try to help you , but unless you hear what you want, which frankly seems to be "just go pet your pretty poneh and it will be ok", you get ****y and want to take your toys and leave the sandbox. You have had some great input from some people here who really have some knowledge. I would suggest you actually try some of it.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Alternatives? A kick in your head & you drinking out of a sippy cup. Kickers need to be cured or canned, they can kill you, there is no alternatives.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

julia1986 said:


> Stated at least twice the whip has been used (frequently), and with force. It's a buggy whip so trust me, it makes a point. I would rather not have to beat the snot out of her everytime she comes out if the stall if at all possible. If that is what it takes so be it, still looking for alternatives.


Julia-if it was making the point, as you say, you would not still have a problem. So stop thinking you have really tried it. Noone is saying you will have to "beat the snot out of her every time she leaves the stall"-but you may just have to do it ONCE and make it count!

**head-desk**


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Either put your big girl panties on and deal with this horse who is getting bigger by the day, give her to someone who can handle her, or put her down. There are your alternatives.


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## julia1986 (Sep 6, 2010)

Point simply trying to be made, SHE HAS BEEN CORRECTED WITH THE WHIP AND WITH FORCE. It has been done, not working. I would really love to comment on the pony reference but I won't bother.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Julia, I have to agree with others. From what I understand in your posts, you have tried correcting her with the whip when she strikes...then she responds by rearing and striking with more force, then you stop the correction because you think it isn't working, correct?

If I have understood the situation correctly, then you have been reinforcing the more violent behavior by letting her show dominance over you. She strikes, you strike, she strikes back harder, you say "well, _that_ didn't work" and you just stop. She takes that as a win on her scoreboard and it makes her more determined to _win_ next time too.

She is still small enough that she shouldn't be able to really inflict a ton of damage on you (pain, yes, but not too much actual _damage_) but that time is growing very short.

Like Frank said, the next time she strikes, punish her HARD, if she tries to strike back harder, punish her HARDER. If she wants to keep upping the ante, then you need to be ready and willing to stay one step above her on the force ladder. If that includes hitting her hard over and over and over and over with the whip until she is covered in welts and running from you, then so be it. If she's running from you, she can't strike out at you. In a horse, fear is easier to overcome than disrespectful dominance, especially when they are young like that.

If she were out in a real herd and tried any of what she's doing with the alpha mare, the mare would have kicked her hard until she backed off, then chased her until the filly was nearly run to death just to reinforce the statement that the filly wasn't running _anything_.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

julia1986 said:


> Point simply trying to be made, SHE HAS BEEN CORRECTED WITH THE WHIP AND WITH FORCE. It has been done, not working. I would really love to comment on the pony reference but I won't bother.


THis is what YOU think. Obviously she disagrees. Personally, I always use a rope halter, a long lead, and I would be holding it so the end of the rope was ready to go after her at the slightest HINT she was even thinking about anything bad. THat would be where I would start. On that long lead you should be able to really get her butt moving and keep her mind on how to get away from that rope and less about being a ****ant. Like I said-that would be where I would START. SHe should not even get to the point of striking. If she does, you have missed something. TO this point she has not been impressed by your "whip used with force".


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## MisssMarie (Jan 31, 2012)

I have seen firsthand the dangers a horse who kicks/strikes presents. A great friend of mine was struck in the head by a horse and ended up with a slight coma then mentality of a horse. This needs to be dealt with, and quick. 
If you won't go for the head, they have a neck and chest you can hit as well
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## julia1986 (Sep 6, 2010)

No I never said she has stopped being corrected with the whip. That is what everyone assumes when I say it is not working. She is corrected and stops the behavior, however it is a daily repeat. Thank you for asking the question in a professional manner. 

We don't use rope halters on difficult horses, we use stud chains.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

I will tell from 40 yrs experience dealing with horses, there is no alternative, you have to hit her harder or kick her back or something more powerful to show her you are the boss hoss, she ain't getting the message! I don't know what pony reference you are referring to, but another horse isn't going to teach her how not to kick at you, if anything, she will come onto you stronger, she don't wanna be at the bottom of the pecking order, she feels that's your place. If you don't get a handle on this now, it's going to get worse & you are toast my friend. In fact, so is the horse.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

julia1986 said:


> No I never said she has stopped being corrected with the whip. That is what everyone assumes when I say it is not working. She is corrected and stops the behavior, however it is a daily repeat. Thank you for asking the question in a professional manner.
> 
> We don't use rope halters on difficult horses, we use stud chains.


You asked for alternatives. Maybe you should try one. THey actually work better in many cases. I used to used stud chains too, many years ago.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

julia1986 said:


> She's had all of the ground work required of a filly this age.


If this were true then she shouldn't have any problems. I think the biggest problem is that you actually believe this. The best thing you could do to your horse is to sell her to someone that can handle a horse and buy yourself a cat.


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

While you may not hit in the head, you may want to look at horse behavior. They don't generally give each other blows to the "head", but I've seen them deliver on under the jaw (a favorite place for me to catch a biter to teach them the error of their ways).
And while I also don't strike the front of the face (or side for that matter) it has been pointed out that there are plenty of locations other than the head.
I use to take my walking stick if I had a new horse that had some dramatic issues (and your's does). I dislike the whip, but only because I prefer to simulate something akin to what they might get from a lead mare (not that there's anything wrong with a whip). I used my walking stick as my extension for reach and my "equalizer". I could be at a safe distance and still smack the chest, shoulder, rump, etc with enough force to hopefully feel like a significant enough kick (we're unlikely to ever deliver the same force another horse can).

It's not uncommon for a horse to continue bad behavior the next day, even if you'd corrected it the day before. They've developed a habbit. They like having the power. They're not going to take a behavior that they've been doing for awhile and give it up over night. My mare throwing me down with her foot started one day and was not something she normally did. It still took about 3 days of being jabbed hard in the shoulder for her to finally get it through her "I want to be the lead mare" head that she was not the boss and that behavior was never going to be tolerated. If it had been an ongoing behavior of her's it would likely have taken longer. It is easier to take care of it when it first starts, but that's not an option you have here. She is likely to keep challanging you until she's put in her place enough that she'll behave to avoid the discipline. Be the lead mare. Look for the little signs that she's about to act up and nail her at that point. In a herd the lead mare isn't going to tollerate any sign of disrespect and will deal out punishment swiftly and forcefully if need be. And they can be brutal over things we wouldn't think anything about. My mare has bitten a horse and chased it around the pasture for nothing more than the horse was getting a treat from me and didn't move out of her way quick enough when she came up to me. Normally she wouldn't have done that, but for whatever reason they sometimes feel the need to insure another horse knows it's place.
So when your filly shows a sign of starting to act up put her in her place before she gets started. Be prepared for it to take some time and take steps to insure you are safe while addressing the problem (I used a long stick in these cases....Hickory, not that it mattered)


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

I haven't had to deal with a recurring dangerous vice like this:-( I have had horses try things like striking or kicking but nicked it in the butt the instance it happened & that was the end of it! If I was to approach things I would try this: Whenever handling this filly always have her haltered,so no going in her stall & paddock grooming ,feeding etc until you have control of this situation. When you are going to do something with her take her to a paddock or round pen . Do your grooming handling/training there.There is a big communication problem here she needs to know you are the one in control & calls the shots:!:.You must be vigilant about watching her body language any hint of aggression or invading your space send her away keep her moving until she shows submission & is paying attention to you.Only then can you have her approach you in a calm manner.If she trys striking, striking her back needs to be done in the seconds following with one firm reprimand/correction below the knee.If it can't be done promptly or you start wacking her back in repetition that is only going to escalate & instill the bad behavior further.Immediately have make her move out & away{like sending her in exile of the herd} until she cools her jets & shows a calmer focus to you if that means keeping her going several circles around the pen so be it keep her moving!.When she shows submission & more calm you can call her in, on "your" terms:wink:
There is no dropping your guard with a horse that has dangerous behavior & respect issues. Also watch yourself in not to position yourself in a potential line of fire of her striking hooves.Keep a whip or stick with you to correct or send her away,hopefully before long you won't always have to carry it.


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## Lockwood (Nov 8, 2011)

Julia
Have you tried doing something totally unexpected to her when she strikes? I mean something that would just shock the h**l out of her? 
I'm guessing at this point using a whip is (to her) expected and she knows it is coming. But what if you did something explosive and shocking back at her first, then "beat the day lights out of her and make her think she is going to die" like everyone else is saying.

I'm wondering if she gets an attitude of "Yeah, I'm gonna finish this fight by golly!" (I know, humanizing horse thoughs with human emotions, bad bad) but I remember a race horse many years ago I rode that just had that hatefull attitude.

Maybe by doing something totally unexpected or explosive immediately, the shock will shut down the attitude and while she is trying to recover from that, follow right away with the punishment. It may be an edge so the correction will sink in. Maybe knocking her mind for a loop will slow her wind up into spitefullness just enough.

What that shock is, I'm not sure. Cruel as it sounds, being zinged once with a cattle prod comes to mind. Or a full bucket of water in the face. Or a huge [HUGE] scary noise. Obviously it would need to be something pretty awfull to her way of thinking. 

I dunno. Reading this post makes me think of the child who fights everything, just because it is the way the child is wired to respond. Sometimes a parent needs to do something that mentally shocks the child to shut down the fight response before they can get through.

Maybe I'll just get laughed at, but it is what came to mind.
And I don't disagree with the other's suggestions about correcting this. As I read things it sounds like you have tried several options. We the readers are not there when it happens and we really have no idea how hard or how often you have "beaten" this filly to try and correct this.

Be it daily "lessons" with the whip, beating her senseless one good time, or an all together new solution, I sure hope something changes for you and this filly.


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## julia1986 (Sep 6, 2010)

Thank you for all of the positive suggestions from the decent members. Already have a cat, thanks, goes nicely with my 15+ horses who I handle, as well as customer horses, on a daily basis, to include the well behaved stud colt. All act like first class citizens, except the filly, who has been disciplined time and again for this behavior. She is a very extreme case, hence looking for alternatives to the whip, didn't say it hasn't been used, didn't say it wouldn't still be used, didn't say she is given a love tap. Have reported the people who have made unnecessary rude comments.


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## julia1986 (Sep 6, 2010)

Lockwood, thank you, along those lines is where I was headed. Water has worked but hard to do in certain situations. I need a viable method that can be easily carried and put to use.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

This filly has a horrid disposition and really bad attitude. Her 'trainability' level is low to non-existant. But, that is what it is. Your job now is to make her safe enough to have a future other than a 'tin vest'.

My suggestion would be to turn her out with a set of older horses and let them give her the manners that you and your trainer and her mother did not. You stand the chance of her getting hurt, but I think it is your only answer as you are not willing to do what it would take to manner a horse that is inherently this difficult.

There is a reason that 'good' breeders pay as much attention (or more) to trainability and disposition than to anything else including ability. 

And for goodness sakes, please wear a helmet any time you handle this wench.


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## Fahntasia (Dec 19, 2011)

what about a hose with a spray gun attached kept near at hand and squirt her with it at full strength? Sometimes you just need to find the right "technique", then again some horses are just born bad. Good luck.


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## danastark (Jul 17, 2008)

I agree with turning her out with some older, dominant horses. I have a filly, given to me by a friend when she was 1 1/2. She had spent her life in a corral by herself since she was weaned and had never had anyone dominate her. Yes, she did spend the first couple weeks with bite marks all over her backside, but nothing major happened except her attitude was better. It won't cure everything but it will make you feel better too when you see her getting her comeuppance


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## caseymyhorserocks (Apr 5, 2010)

Or use a water gun.. Doesn't need a hose. 
Amazon.com: 5" Super Squirter Clear Water Gun: Toys & Games

And .. To some point hitting a horse when they are being bad is mean. Not good. Bad. Cruel. Like if they arent getting in the trailer. You put a stud chain on and smack them. And smack for half hour... (dont ask) Whatever you want to call it, and its not the answer to everything. My old old old instructor.. Thought hitting the horse was everything. Horse moves around while being groomed. Smack. (which just made it move around more). Horse threw up head while being bridled. Smack. If that is all you use.. It is just going to get repetitive and the horse will learn to resist it. The other day Casey tried to nibble my hand a bit. She regretted it. I smacked her hard (my hand was in pain) and yelled and screamed moving her around like crazy. I would put your horse in the roundpen/arena/pasture and if/when she kicks you (have a long whip) basically go crazy. If I were you, I would take off her leadrope and pet her, if she kicks you, SMACK her, snap the whip go running around screaming like a crazy MANIAC screaming and screaming and screaming. GET HER AWAY FROM YOU. Get my point? Add in the water gun if needed. Well.... Maybe tell your neighbors before you do this to let them know you are playing a game or something.. :wink:


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## julia1986 (Sep 6, 2010)

We didn't breed her, see earlier post. 

Cherie, what is it that we are not willing to do?


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## ReiningGirl (Oct 4, 2011)

Thankfully I've never had to deal with a horse that was this aggressive. But if this behavior doesn't get fixed NOW, it will escalate until someone gets killed. She needs to understand that you're the lead mare. I like the idea of shocking her out of her routine. 

If this happens daily, even after repetitive corrections, it has clearly become a habit. I would try shocking her the instant she does the behavior. (A bull horn seems appropriate, tucked behind the back.) Then get her MOVING. I am a big believer in Clinton Anderson's methods of ground respect for horses. I noticed that you said you're never going to hit her in the head - the methods I mentioned have a specific backing technique that uses a rope halter, carrot stick and lead rope, and give multiple levels of punishment that escalate as the behavior does. 

Watch her body language - the INSTANT she even thinks about doing something naughty, shock the heck out of her. Bullhorn, bucket of water to the face, can with quarters in it, whatever it takes to get her snapped out of her train of thought. Boefore she can mentally recover from the scare and get ****y again, get her away from your personal space. Back her, spin her, send her out, whatever. Just get her away from you. Whack her on the chest, the neck, the butt, and you can even whack the clip under her chin with the stick if you're using a rope halter. But these whacks have to be HARD. Don't slack on this, if the corrections are weak or you miss the window between shock and anger, you'll only cause more aggression. 

If you continue to have issues, I would recommend taking the horse and yourself to a clinic to attain better skills, for both of you. And if your trainer hasn't helped the issues, I would recommend rethinking their involvement in the horses training. Some trainers are good for some horses, and not for others. Find one that works and that you feel safe with. 

I hate to say it, but I agree with the people on here that say you have limited options now - fix the issue, sell the horse to someone who can, or sadly, you may have to euthanize it, or it may kill someone. The blood line is no excuse. This goes back to my support of deciding when its worth sticking with it, or letting it go. Is it worth getting seriously hurt one day? Remember, a horse who disrepects you this badly on the ground on a daily basis, will have no issue running you through a fence, rolling over on you, or being a bucking rodeo bronc once you get on her back. I'm definitely not saying "well you can't handle this horse, so give up". But you haven't gotten your point across to this horse yet, nor has your trainer, and its time to decide if you can fix the issue safely or if its time to find someone who can. I would hate to see a post with from you about a serious injury that could have been prevented.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

caseymyhorserocks said:


> Or use a water gun.. Doesn't need a hose.
> Amazon.com: 5" Super Squirter Clear Water Gun: Toys & Games
> 
> And .. To some point hitting a horse when they are being bad is mean. Not good. Bad. Cruel. Like if they arent getting in the trailer. You put a stud chain on and smack them. And smack for half hour... (dont ask) Whatever you want to call it, and its not the answer to everything. My old old old instructor.. Thought hitting the horse was everything. Horse moves around while being groomed. Smack. (which just made it move around more). Horse threw up head while being bridled. Smack. If that is all you use.. It is just going to get repetitive and the horse will learn to resist it. The other day Casey tried to nibble my hand a bit. She regretted it. I smacked her hard (my hand was in pain) and yelled and screamed moving her around like crazy. I would put your horse in the roundpen/arena/pasture and if/when she kicks you (have a long whip) basically go crazy. If I were you, I would take off her leadrope and pet her, if she kicks you, SMACK her, snap the whip go running around screaming like a crazy MANIAC screaming and screaming and screaming. GET HER AWAY FROM YOU. Get my point? Add in the water gun if needed. Well.... Maybe tell your neighbors before you do this to let them know you are playing a game or something.. :wink:


 The key is hitting, and getting a reaction. Hitting constantly, just nagging the horse and not getting a reaction, is what deadens a horse to that tool. Not the hitting itself. I usually growl first, if a 'minor offense' and only hit if the horse will not budge. Something like striking or kicking, needs a sharp and immediate reaction, and the horse needs to think it's going to die or be very injured if it does it again. If said horse does not respond to a flick of a whip or similar action by moving away, then I will do whatever I need to do, to get the reaction I want. As soon as the horse moves, then I go back to playing nice like nothing ever happened. Flicking with a whip, and not getting an obvious shift away from that pressure, then not immediately backing that flick up with something harder, is going to make your horse 'laugh' at you.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

Your not willing to escalate the discipline until it is effective.

If you quit and back off before you get the desired effect, you either used an ineffective method or you just 'pecked' on the horse and made her worse.

Discipline only counts when it is effective. 

I used to train for the public and was brought many horses that had hurt people -- several that had put people in the hospital and maimed or crippled them -- permanently. I have known people that were killed by attacking horses. 

You know what all of these horses had in common? They had all been ineffectively disciplined and pecked on and made meaner. On two of them, I knew the horses and the owners and had warned them that they were setting themselves up to get hurt badly -- and they did. 

Any time you quit before you get the desired response, you embolden the horse and make it worse. Any time you have to repeat the discipline time after time, it has been ineffective. 

So, you (or your trainer) have NOT been effective or you would not have this problem.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

The biggest problem with horses like this is that if the problem is not corrected _by any means necessary_ when they are young, then it will become habit (which I fear has already happened with your filly). After it has been habit for a length of time (how long depends on the horse), it will be ingrained. When that happens, it is almost impossible to correct.

If she doesn't respond to being whapped with the whip, then get something stronger and _terrorize_ her with it. Something that is going to _hurt_. Something that will make her say "Oh, crap, that hurt! I don't want that to happen again."

Let me share a little story with you...

Back in the late 70's, my Dad was training Appy show horses for a ranch up in Kansas. They purchased a weanling stud for like $85,000 and immediately sent him to a "well-known halter trainer". After a little over a year with this "trainer" the horse was sent to another trainer for saddle breaking. By this time, he had developed serious aggression issues because he would start to misbehave and the "trainer" wouldn't correct the issue to the fullest extent he needed to, he would "nag" the colt. 

By the time he was 2, he would chew on you all the time and if you tried to stop him, he would go absolutely bat-s**t crazy; pawing, kicking, charging, lunging, biting and taking chunks if he could. He had zero respect for anything, whips, ropes, nothing. Horse was brought back to the ranch and that was about the time that my Dad went to work for them. They wanted the horse trained for WP and some other events that included calf roping so it fell to my Dad to try to handle him. 

After that horse hurt him a couple of times, he had to resort to inflicting serious pain on him just to remain safe. He never went into the horse's stall without a length of chain that he would use to beat the horse off if he charged. There were other things he did that I really won't mention for fear of anyone else reading this and getting the idea to copy them in their head...but they were all unpleasant and some of them were downright cruel. 

BUT, he ended up being able to handle the horse and the horse did develop a hint of respect for my Dad. He would still sneak a bite/paw/kick if he thought Dad wasn't paying attention but mostly, he behaved. Only for Dad though, nobody else could handle the horse with any degree of safety at all.

After Dad left the ranch and was no longer training for them, that horse got a groom down in his stall and nearly killed him. He never went to another show and 3 months later, he was dead. They "claimed" blister beetle infestation in the hay but I still believe that they killed him for the insurance $$ because not a single other horse in that entire full barn got sick.

The point is, if you can't get a handle on this _now_, while she's still young and small, then she likely has a very short life ahead of her.


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## ReiningGirl (Oct 4, 2011)

smrobs said:


> The point is, if you can't get a handle on this _now_, while she's still young and small, then she likely has a very short life ahead of her.


EXACTLY. This horse hasn't gotten the point that you're the dominant one, and its going to land someone in a world of hurt or worse. If this goes on until she's put in training to be broke to ride, believe me when I say that your issues will multiply and increase in danger. Like I said earlier, a horse with this serious lack of ground respect and human respect will have no qualms in bucking your head square into a wall, rolling on you, running your knees through fences and being a menace to your personal safety. If you have no respect on the ground, you'll have even less once you're on their back. 

But please ask yourself if this is really worth getting hurt sticking with it, or is it time to concede defeat and send your horse to a home that can handle her issues and get her past them safely. Ultimately, the decision is going to be up to you - what advice or risks you take (or don't) are up to you. Remember, the posters on here are only stating personal opinions, techniques that have worked or might work, and are trying to keep you safe by pointing out the danger in the situation. The last thing anyine wants to see is an op update about an injury or worse after a thread like this.


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## caseymyhorserocks (Apr 5, 2010)

Yes, I agree with you Kayty. Reading back on that, my point was that if you smack (or something else) the horse every time they do something wrong and never have any other way of punishing them they learn to ignore it- didn't mean for it to come off wrong like that. You have to do something different every so often.


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

I have a 9 year old stallion. Once three years ago I entered his stall and he pinned his ears and attempted to kick me.. I happened to have a lunge whip within real and INSTANTLY started yelling and I did best the crap out of him (for about 10 seconds). In that moment I wanted him to think he was going to die (I never hit him in the head though). He was completely shocked. 

I then stopped, shut up, and walked out of his stall - closing it behind me. I waited a minute and came back as if nothin had happened. That boy met me with perked ears and a great attitude. He has never EVER attempted it again.

Could it have been stopped with less force? Probably. But this is a good 1100 lb animal an I stand a whole 5 ft 3. I need to ensure he understands that I am the boss and never learns he's bigger than me. Keep in mind he never actually kicked me, he just got ready to and I beat him to the chase. But I solved the problem and therefore it never escalated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Prinella (Jul 12, 2011)

I like using carrot sticks and a good rope halter and lead 12ft works well. The carrot sticks give a really good wallop! 
When Ella went though a rearing stage as soon as she went up I would lay into her with stick and string once she came down she was chased back hard and fast. She was let to stand still for a second and I then sent her forwards lots of go and stop hard and fast then back to whatever I was doing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

smrobs said:


> The point is, if you can't get a handle on this _now_, while she's still young and small, then she likely has a very short life ahead of her.


Exactly! Bad habits form in no time, and it's one heck of hard work to break them. 

I've seen my local trainer (who's specialization is dealing with horses like OPs) to deal with rearing/striking horse. He had rope halter and long lead rope on. The moment horse reared and strok out it got a carrot stick (which is much better than dressage whip in such situations because 1) it's much longer and 2) it's sturdy) across the neck. Hard. I believe horse tried to rear 3 or 4 times and every single time got a stick on neck. Guess what? After 3rd time it stopped this behavior.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

I apologise now if I repeat anything.

If you have used a whip, and it hasn't been effective, its because 
a) You didn't use it hard enough
b) You didn't keep on long enough for a reaction.

Try tying a plastic bag to the end of it.

People have given you good advice, perhaps you can video how you handle the filly so they can give you better hints and tips, that way you can't say anyone is saying things that aren't helpful, when there are 50+ replies of decent length that are taking people time to write, read through and help you.


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## ginjohns (Feb 10, 2012)

I would get her into a pasture with a couple of dominant horses. She has not learned how to behave. Since her mother let her do it she thinks it is how to get her way. Is she weaned? If not I would do that and put her out with a stronger horse who will let her know it is wrong. Still keep working with her, as others have said, you have got to instill in her that you are the boss! and that will not be tolerated.
My colt did it once, and reared and tried again when corrected. I snapped him with the lead "whip" and pulled him down and back. Got him off balance and then backed him till he settled. If she rears up don't pull forward, pull to the side, fast and hard. All the while talking in a loud and mean voice. Since it is a habit it may take more than one time, just stay at it.


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## ButterfliEterna (May 2, 2010)

ReiningGirl said:


> Watch her body language - the INSTANT she even thinks about doing something naughty, shock the heck out of her. Bullhorn, bucket of water to the face, can with quarters in it, whatever it takes to get her snapped out of her train of thought. Boefore she can mentally recover from the scare and get ****y again, get her away from your personal space. Back her, spin her, send her out, whatever. Just get her away from you. Whack her on the chest, the neck, the butt, and you can even whack the clip under her chin with the stick if you're using a rope halter. But these whacks have to be HARD. Don't slack on this, if the corrections are weak or you miss the window between shock and anger, you'll only cause more aggression.
> 
> I hate to say it, but I agree with the people on here that say you have limited options now - fix the issue, sell the horse to someone who can, or sadly, you may have to euthanize it, or it may kill someone. The blood line is no excuse. This goes back to my support of deciding when its worth sticking with it, or letting it go. Is it worth getting seriously hurt one day? Remember, a horse who disrepects you this badly on the ground on a daily basis, will have no issue running you through a fence, rolling over on you, or being a bucking rodeo bronc once you get on her back. I'm definitely not saying "well you can't handle this horse, so give up". But you haven't gotten your point across to this horse yet, nor has your trainer, and its time to decide if you can fix the issue safely or if its time to find someone who can. I would hate to see a post with from you about a serious injury that could have been prevented.



I'm on board with many of the other posters. 

Everyone has a different method for horse training... and quite simply, we all "train" our horses each and every time that we interact with them -- for better or worse. 

This filly strikes and you discipline her. She doesn't like it and strikes while rearing, and so you discipline her again. (Repeat process.) IMO, it doesn't sound like the two of you are properly communicating. Could she have soundness issues or is this primarily her aggressive personality? Is there a specific place that she doesn't like to stand, or are you holding her a certain way that makes her uncomfortable? Are you willing to go back a step from the stud chain? If she's just a baby, then the sheer force of the (stud chain) halter may have programmed bad memories of being handled for her. I know I wouldn't want to co-operate with those terms...

We had a rescue gelding last year, who's back feet were nearly impossible to handle. He would kick out whenever someone tried to handle them. A new farrier came out and the gelding rejected his methods. Finally, he gave him a stud chain and then twitch to help with the foot rejection. I can only tell you how fast the farrier was ejected out of that barn. A few months later, you wouldn't tell that it was the same horse. He gives his back feet willingly and the farriers that we deal with now have no issues with him. Through time (us getting him used to the touch) and the farrier's "kind" experiences, he's a good gelding in that regards. 

IMO, please try a rope halter with knots on the noseband and/or poll. It will pinch pressure on her poll if she rears (which you can probably firmly pull down on the lead rope for added effect) and if she strikes initially, make her move backwards! To the side! Whatever you can do to keep her feet busy. Where I boarded my mare initially, there was a 2 y/o biter/kicker. She tried to kill me on numerous occasions just for being in the pasture with my horse. After speaking with the FO and HO, both of them denied the horse's issue... so I got the hell out of Dodge. Never had a problem since.


Last note: "If you're not ahead of the horse, then she's ahead of you." 

Good luck, and hopefully you find a solution! I'd hate to hear that you put her down because of her sheer unruliness...


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

I have 10 mares of different ages. We keep the younger ones seperated from the group with my big roping mare. (mostly for feeding ease) But if the younger ones are getting too bossy and full of themselves, we will turn my roping mare out with them for a bit and she straightens them out.

This whole ordeal is coming back to you having to establish that you are the alpha mare. My rope horse is a hag, but as soon as she sees me, she knows that if she tries something, she will get whacked. Your filly thinks she's the alpha mare, and it's only going to be getting worse. You aren't using the whip effectively. I didn't use a whip with my mare, I used whatever I could get my hands on - sticks, lead shanks, ropes, anything. 

At this point, if you happen to bruise your filly, good. I've taken the knot of a rope to a horse that tried to kick me. I hit it twice. Left a welt on it's bum. But did it kick again? No. Did it hate me forever? No. It respects me now. It knows I'm dominant. 

You NEED to establish your dominance. 

If she tries to kick you, immediately whack her with the whip, or whatever you have at hand and make her do something. 

If you were more experienced, I'd say put her in a roundpen and get after her with a long leadshank with a leather popper on the end. Make her run around you and move away from you. And then make her switch directions and go until she's tired. If she still tries to hurt you, whack her with the leadshank and make her do something. But I will not put you in that position, if can't reprimand her and get any kind of response.

There was a lot of good adive given to you, no need to get sour to people about it, we just don't want another article about someone being killed dealing with a horse.


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## Prinella (Jul 12, 2011)

Also please be careful pulling whilst she's rearing. Sometimes a rear met with a pull can cause them to go over. Can try going for the hind legs with a long rope again I love carrot sticks!


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear!
All these so called horse savvy people telling you to smack your poor naughty misunderstood weanling.

I could suggest that you take out a bank loan and buy all the Pat Parelli paraphernalia and go that route.

Perhaps that is what you want to hear.

Meantime send the little cow bag to me. I know what I would do and that would be if she struck out she would get whacked, not with a buggy whip but something hard like a broom handle. Then when she reared I would flap, wave or chase her back pulling on the halter rope and then when she reached the apex I would let the pull go and let her go over. 
Once over I would be on her head fast so that she could not get up. There she would stay for as long as I wanted certainly 5 - 10 minutes, _after_ she had stopped struggling. (All this done on a soft surface) 
When I let her up, before she had time to recover her legs properly I would continue to do whatever I wanted before she struck out.

I have had the honour of dealing with little sh1ts like this many times. They need tough treatment. I agree that by turning them out with a bossy mare is the best but, she has learned she is boss over humans so, extreme measures are needed.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Foxhunter said:


> Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear!
> All these so called horse savvy people telling you to smack your poor naughty misunderstood weanling.
> 
> I could suggest that you take out a bank loan and buy all the Pat Parelli paraphernalia and go that route.
> ...


I like some of your answer-other than referring to many of us a "savvy". TO some of us that has a very negative connotation. ;-)


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## Prinella (Jul 12, 2011)

Let me clarify be careful where you pull her over, just guessing Tarmac isn't good for them to fall on. Again I do like the carrot sticks they hit HARD


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Hmmmmmm if the OP was a very experienced trainer with many years under her belt dealing with these sorts of issues, then yes flipping them can work. But I would never, ever recommend to someone over a forum, that they should flip the horse. They can kill themselves or the horse in the process. 
I don't think this mare sounds bad enough to go to the extreme of flipping anyway.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

I agree flipping, should only be done in an extreme case. I've never done it, nor would I want to, but I'd do it if I had to. 

One of my geldings, while he was being halter broke, (at 3 months because the breeder didn't do anything with him until then) He was being naughty and rearing and pulling. I wasn't the one handling him at this time, the breeders husband was, and Nut-Megg reared up, lost his balance and fell over backwards. He never reared again. Smart horse. ;-)


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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

I don't have a particular cure but agree that you need a shock factor here. As an example..a friend of mine had a three year old colt that would rear while she was riding. One day, she took a 1 X 2 and attached three filled water balloons to it..I thnk they refer to them as "cherry bomb" balloons. After mounting I handed her the water balloon "crop" and when he reared, she popped him on the head with the balloons making them burst and soaking his poll and head. (she didn't hit him with the 1X2). That colt came back down on all fours and just stood and shook for 10 minutes. I never saw that colt rear again. 

When I had my first horse, the barn owner, who had grown up around horses, was in a stall when the horse turned and tried to bite. In natural defense the barn owner swung his right arm up, the hand on that arm just happened to be holding an empty plastic bucket..one of the 5-gallon types. The bucket hit the horse in the nose, totally unintentionally, didn't injure the horse but it did startle him enough that he never bit again..at least not the barn owner...anyone else was fair game.


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## ButterfliEterna (May 2, 2010)

I wouldn't agree with the water balloons... primarily for the sake of waterphobia around her head (making bathing a ******). Remember, she's only 8 months old and got a long life ahead of her yet!


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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

The idea was that the colt would think he had busted his head open. Never had a problem with bathing or getting his head wet but was just trying to give an example of a shock factor


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## azwantapaint (Feb 5, 2012)

Having followed this thread from its beginning, and having minimal knowledge of how to curb bad behavior, i can only apply what i know from training my dogs throughout my life.
I got nipped once by a belgian malinois. The instant that happened, i pounced on her, got her by the throat with my own hand, and pinned her to the dirt firmly.
She struggled for a few minutes, but finally got the point that i was the alpha, and that was the way it was.
I let her up, loved on her a while, played ball, and we were good thereafter.
By my theory, i realize that this 8 month old horse probably outweighs you by 2-3x, perhaps more. Like fox said, and many, many others, establishing dominance is your ONLY recourse for curbing this type of behavior.
If she were in the pasture with other mares, she'd get her keester handed to her on a silver platter. 
At risk of sounding rude, crude, and obnoxious, it appears you have two choices in this matter.
Either grow some stones and handle it with extreme prejudice, or give up the horse to someone who will.
The horse clearly thinks you're it's punching bag.
Heck, buy me a plane ticket, and i'll handle it in 3 days.
If you're skittish, ou prolly wont wanna be a spectator though...this pony 'tude adjustment wont be pretty, but it will be effective.


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## 4HCountryGirl (Aug 31, 2011)

When she tries to strike, smack (hope that doesn't sound too harsh) her and work her like do small circles and back up.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

4HCountryGirl said:


> When she tries to strike, smack (hope that doesn't sound too harsh) her and work her like do small circles and back up.


:lol: Smacking does not sound harsh if you've read what the rest of us have told the OP in the rest of the thread!


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

You've been given some awfully good advice by some very good horsepeople, and to date I haven't seen a rude or hateful post.

I agree strongly with the ones who have said that this has been made worse by her getting a half hearted correction, instead of a CTJ meeting all the way around. 

And too, much of her coming back at you, could well be the body language you are using. Timidity, hesitation, cowed body, all of these would signal to her that you really really don't intend to win. So she is more determined, since she has learned she can win, if she ups the ante.

Every time, and this goes for kids too for that matter...but every time you have gotten after her and she returns with attitude? She has learned she is winning. I would not even allow a ear twitch, much less her coming after you kicking when she has been corrected for the striking.

I also don't buy the theory that because of her bloodline, this is impossible to break either. While that does hold water, it does not give her free rein to kill humans, or attempt to, and make no mistake, if you don't get a handle on this, that is coming.

The backing/working advice from a poster slightly above me, is useless here with this filly. You will not be able to get close to her to do it. And will teach her nothing, except to make sure you don't get close enough to her to catch her, and she will become more dangerous.

You haven't said what you are feeding this filly, but I would consider that and possibly make some changes. It could be the feed/hay is too hot, and is making this worse.

But the main thing is you and trainer need to either toughen up both your body language, and your corrections and WIN, as if you don't? She will get one of you one day soon, and you may not have a second chance then.

When she strikes, go after her like a house afire with the lash whip, and I mean tear her up, don't just pop her and let her do the attitude, but keep after her, until she is running for her life in her mind.

She HAS to see you as determined to win at all costs, including her demise. And I don't mean to go off screaming and hollering, or waving and making half hearted movements.

You need to be completely silent, other than NO, and then advance and tear her up, until she is more concerned with saving herself than she is in teaching you a lesson. Keep that lash working on that hind end, and if she comes at you to strike, go across the chest hard. And then get that rear again.

But don't get mad, or get vocal, just the quiet determination of a cougar bringing down its prey, that mindset is what you need.

And take a look at your other dealings with this filly, as I would be willing to bet that you/trainer are also letting other things slide, as in at feeding? Is she giving attitude then, pinned ears, swinging head, snaking head? Correct that too, as it all ties together.

Every thing you do with this filly, will have to be done in such a way as to make her realize humans are in charge, not her. Leading, haltering, releasing, all of it works together.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

As some background on whether or not I have dealt with this type horse?

Years ago, a friend bought a gelding. 4/5, big red TWH/Racking Horse. Overbearing at best, obnoxious at worst. She was a "love" type owner, and was herself fairly timid in all her dealings, but had "fallen in love" and bought this horse.

She and family were going away for son's wedding, and she needed someone to feed horse/animals while they were gone. I told her I would. She told me Red had been getting mean, had bowled over her dog several times and had come at her and knocked her down too, and that he wouldn't even let her in pasture when she went to feed, but instead would stand at gate and bite at her. She was concerned I would get hurt. He also had taken kicks at her in stall when being fed, and pushed her out of the way at his bucket several times. Just a bad actor all the way around.

First morning I went to feed, got dogs/cats fed, went out to pasture and there was Red, ears back so far looked like he didn't have any, mouth open and snaking that head with little squinchy eyes, crowding the gate and striking it with forelegs.

I turned around, and picked up a pecan limb, maybe 4/5 feet long, with lots of smaller branches, and green leaves and pecans on it still, trunk was about size of my arm. I walked toward gate, and holding branch so main part of it was at my knee level, I rattled it, and told Red "back up." His eyes got big and he moved off of gate.

I went in pasture, which was 2 acres, and walked towards him, rattling branch every now and then, never made contact with him at all, didn't try to even. He gave the buck/snort/kick and snaked head over and over, but he kept those feet moving, and eventually, as I kept him moving, he began to realize there was a new sheriff in town, and that his little "game" was up, and his career as a "criminal bronc" was coming to an end. 

I would turn and head to barn, he would follow, little ears at perky happy place, and I would turn around and make him move off, far off of me. This was repeated until I got nothing but little happy horsey faces from him.

I went in stall, he started to rush in, but I drove him out from under barn overhang and made him stand there. I used at this point, a ENGGGHHH sound, almost a low growl in throat, that was meant to stop his movement, and did. I then moved him completely away from barn period. 

Since his feed was in stall, he got some attitude back and for that, he got to visit far side of pasture again. 

I stood in door of his stall, and made him stand out and wait until I said he could go in, and when he finally lost the "ears/eyes of doom" which was when he realized I was going to win...he walked in, waited until I allowed him to eat and never gave me any more problem at all. I reinforced his learning each time I fed that week, but when his owner came back, she could not believe the difference in him, and asked what I had done to make him behave?

I told her that I simply remembered who wrote the check, and it wasn't a horse. I showed her the pecan limb trick, and she was able to at least handle horse safely from then on, although he was too much horse for her to safely ride.

But he never bowled her over again, nor the dog.

Had I let him run me off from the gate, or behaved in a timid, tiptoeing manner? He would have eventually killed her. He was that type of horse. And she was one that babied horses more than is good for them, sweet voice/words, and soothing tones, which makes a monster on hooves.

While I never laid the limb on him one time, he had not gotten so far that I had to, like this filly has. His early training had not led him to think he could win over humans and hurt them, as this filly believes she can.

With her, at least at first? You need to make contact, and make it count.


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