# How to convince your parents NOT to buy a horse



## Ratlady (Nov 13, 2018)

Long post alert!! I'll try to keep it short as I can, but there's a lot of context needed and I have a habit of rambling...

I'm in one hell of a dilemma. My mother in law desperately wants a horse, and I have no idea how to convince her that buying a horse in her position is an overwhelmingly bad idea.

For context, my MIL has always been horse crazy, but has never really had the time or money to ride, so I told her that she could ride my greenie (who is the sweetest, most well behaved greenie ever!) if she wanted. Supervised of course until he has more miles under him. I figured since riding is hard for me thanks to previous riding injuries, she could help give him some exercise. It seemed like a good setup for the both of us.

My issue begins when she got it in her head that instead of riding my horse for free, she wanted her own horse. Because she's a total beginner who's horse experience is limited to having a nasty, unrideable pony as a kid, I recommended that we go look at some old schoolmasters I knew were for sale, and I could talk to a dressage trainer about setting her up with some weekly lessons that we could take together. I told her about a pony who is sound, dead broke, seen it all, and sweet as can be who's currently used as a fox hunter for a very low price (imo) of 1500$. 

That's when she said to me "Oh, I could never pay that much for a horse! I want a free horse, like the one you got."

My jaw hit the floor!! Yes, I did get my horse for free, but I knew his previous owner and got him as a completely untrained 10 year old. Sometimes you get lucky, but in my experience free horses are either lame, crazy or untrained. I also had to explain to her that horses are expensive, and the reason I don't pay very much for my horse is because he's a very hardy, easy keeper with good feet that I trim myself. I knew that going in, that's why I got him!

I told her that finding a sane, sound and broke horse for free would be like finding a unicorn. She says she doesn't need a broke horse, because she can train it. My horse is incredibly easy to train, so her horse would be too, right? I brought up leasing a horse, but that was a no go. She wants her very own horse.

The reason my horse appears so easy to train is because I've been taking riding lessons since forever, have owned horses before, and have the guidance from some very, very experienced horse people. I tried telling her that a lot of knowledge goes into horse training, and how you could get seriously hurt if you don't know what you're doing. It all seems to go in one ear and out the other. I'm starting to think she wants me to train her hypothetical horse too. She's already hinting at getting "family discounts" for trimming and shoeing... 

Eventually she did raise her budget for a horse to 400$. Still not really workable, but better. With that price point, I told her that maybe, just maybe, she could find something at an auction for that price, but she'd be much better off saving money for a few months until she had a more reasonable budget rather than taking a gamble with an auction horse.

The real kicker is when I talked to my father in law, he proudly announced that getting his wife a horse was his top priority and would do it no matter the cost. I decided to sit him down and do a full cost breakdown of buying and owning a horse. The conversation went something like this.

"So is that 400$ budget for all costs included with buying a horse, or is that just for the horse?"

"What do you mean the included costs, we just have to buy the horse right?"

"Well sure you buy the horse, but then you'll have to trailer it too. Most good shippers I know charge 60 to 80$ an hour, and shipping can be time consuming depending on how much of a pain the horse is to load, board is 225$ a month for pasture board where I am, not including feed..."

"Wait, I don't have to pay all upfront right?"

"Of course you do."

He nearly fell on his butt at the cost, and I had barely started my cost breakdown when he cut me off. I didn't even get to the big things like vet, saddles or shoeing! He panicked. He really, honestly thought it was all going to cost 400$ total, and I THOUGHT this would be the end of it...

Turns out because their relationship has been on the rocks lately, he will absolutely, under no circumstance, tell her no. He did beg her to wait at least one month to save up, but she didn't really want to hear it. He claims to have the money, but he's a proud man and would never admit to not having the cash, especially when his wifes disappointment is on the line. I did also give my MIL the full cost breakdown, but I don't think she heard a word I said... She'll keep saying stuff like "You can get me a good deal right?" and I always tell her that I'm not magic, and you often get what you pay for. I can help, but I can't do everything.

I'm very worried that her blindly rushing into horse ownership is going to make them go broke or get someone seriously hurt. They clearly have no idea what she's getting into, and she won't listen to me when I tell her it's a bad idea. My husband is absolutely gifted in the art of arguing, and even he's having a hard time articulating to her that this might not be a good idea. If this was anything else I'd be happy to let her be a big girl and make her own mistakes, but poorly handled horses are too dangerous. I couldn't sleep at night if I just let her walk into a death trap. And if she got hurt... 

Does anyone have any input on this situation? You read so many things about convincing your parents to buy a horse, there's hardly anything about the opposite. But I'm legitimately very scared of her getting hurt. She doesn't know a thing about horses, and I can't just sit back and let this train wreck happen. But at the same time, I won't be walked all over and do all the hard work and maintenance for free. I need help!


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Since they both interrupt you when you're trying to explain costs make them a spreadsheet of monthly costs, annual costs, and 1 time costs (this would include purchase price of horse & tack). Don't forget the emergency fund needed for unexpected vet care, as in injuries or illness.

Maybe you have a horse savvy friend closer to her age that could talk to her and maybe she'd listen to.

Do a search on this forum for injuries and the problems first time horse owners run into, print them off, hand them to her and tell her to read every one of them.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Anyone who will go broke from just buying a horse, and a few months of ownership costs, has not business buying any kind of horse, or pet, or . . . toy . . . or . . . . . They are standing next to a financial cliff if the cost of buying one horse, and a few months board is all that stands between them and being flat out broke. I know that may sound arrogant, but I stand by it.


I would guess that these people got where they are by a series of repeated decisions of the same caliber is this one would be , so, it's not likely you can change them now. All you can do is model responsible horse ownership, and stand aside and let the slow motion train wreck commence.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

My neighbors were your in-laws. They had no horse experience. They bought two horses from a dealer who (as anyone in the local horse community could have told them if they had asked), was a crook who sold them 'dead broke' animals. One horse was far from broke and the other was close to dead. They were lucky they didn't get hurt, and that my other, horse-experienced, neighbors got rid of them for them. They are now afraid of horses. And horse dealers.

Tell your in-laws about on-farm leases. I also like the idea of a spreadsheet. 

The main problem as I see it is that a horse is not a boat or a time-share in Tahoe. When the poo hits the fan it will likely be the horse who suffers.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I would not be so nice since every word you try to speak you are cut off with "their knowledge"

Flat out tell them you will not be involved, no way no how as potential financial ruin is what they face with their inability to accept what keeping a horse monthly can cost forget about purchasing a horse and the equipment to take care of and ride said horse, besides lessons to learn how to ride and handle their new horse safely is going to involve.
When they close their mouths tell them... $1000.00 to buy the horse, basic equipment needed and get it home to start _*if lucky.*_
Then every month a additional $500.00 to keep the horse providing no emergency arises needing expert and expensive vet care.
You will not be doing the work for said horse nor getting involved,_ this is all on them._

Sometimes the best and kindest advice is not given carefully but with cold, hard facts and then walking away.
They know it all and nothing you say shall change that but the blame will fall to your shoulders for any and everything...so cut it off before it begins.
Don't own the problems this is going to make and have reach through their household...just don't own them!!
:runninghorse2:...
_jmo..._


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

I think some tough love is in order. I mean, it's their decision since they are adults. And you've put yourself in a pickle by being involved in the first place. Tell me the free unicorn will be boarded somewhere else than where you keep your horse... 

It's time to rip the bandaid off. I know you didn't mean to do it, but you've accidentally enabled them. I get it, I have had to set people straight myself after letting a true beginner sit on my horse and get led around the paddock, then they ask if they could do a trail ride next time!.... um, no. Go take a couple of years of lessons then come back to me. In wanting to encourage the love of horses in others, we sometimes put ourselves in impossible situations. Been there, done that, bought all the T-shirts stained with blood, sweat and tears. 

Do the spreadsheet thing. Give them the number of a boarding barn and ask them to do the legwork to call them and get prices. Prepare a speech in which you say "I know you have your heart set on this, but I think it's important that you realize what it costs to keep a horse. The price of the horse is the cheapest part, etc. etc." Also, find a new project to work on (not a horse, I mean a project with your horse, at work, a new commitment that has just cropped up) and which will take up your time for the rest of the summer, probably longer. Maybe your boss needs you to work longer hours. Maybe your house needs repainting. Maybe you need to take some vacation time and will be too busy to help with your MIL's horse. Make it clear, whichever way you want, that she will be responsible for the horse once it arrives at the boarding stable, and that while you can try to give advice over the phone (don't though... make it very broad like if the horse is lame, give them the phone number of a vet). Say it at least three times, using different phrasings: "I don't think you're ready for the full financial and time commitment of a horse of your own right now and I just don't have the time to be involved with another horse since I already have my own who take up all of my time." 

Tell them to go visit a tack store, talk to a vet about doing a PPE (scare them by telling them you know someone who got a free horse and it ended up costing them thousands of $$$ in vet bills and then died, which also costs money), make arrangements with the boarding stable, line up transport for the horse, talk to a farrier. MAKE them do all these things themselves. Maybe the MIL will start to add things up if she has to get prices from all these people. 

Good luck. But DO NOT enable these people for another minute.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Ugh. I'm so sorry you're in this situation. I have a sort of odd suggestion, feel free to take it or leave it.

Can you tell your MIL that you will help her find a horse, but only after she has, say, six months of lessons? Then sign her up for lessons at a place that has a reputation for having difficult lesson horses. I have heard ex-students at my barn say that our lesson horses are difficult and have destroyed the confidence of beginners whose only wish was to learn to ride (I haven't seen that myself, just saying what people have said). Let her have lessons at one of these places and get her confidence severely damaged. She might even get hurt. I know that sounds terrible -- it's not my goal to get her hurt, but with a free or cheap horse (that she of course will not pay to have lessons on, she's just going to take it out and attempt to ride it) she will get hurt anyway, and at least in this scenario the horse won't suffer as well.

Or, maybe she will do really well and in six months she will at least be semi-prepared for her own horse. It would be better than buying one now. Or maybe she will realize that riding is more expensive and difficult than she expected, and just give it up.

Alternately, take her to a place where the barn owner / instructor is happy to explain how much the costs are. Take her to a place that does lessons and boarding, and have them explain the costs (don't forget, first month's rent up front, last month's rent as deposit, maybe a yearly contract to sign). It will sound more believeable to her than if you tell her. Maybe that barn owner could even talk her into leasing a decent horse rather than buying a cheap one.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

She doesn't know she's horse crazy until she got hurt at least once and is still horse crazy. Be sure to make room, budget, and by her the horse that you'd want for yourself, because you'll end up with it.

Sorry - it's a bad situation all around, for you and the poor creature about to enter her "care".


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

They are adults who will make decisions for themselves. That does not mean that you have to pay for the consequences of their actions and I would make it clear that I would not if I were in your shoes.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Yeah, hate to say it but, "RUN don't walk away from this one.". Don't offer them one more thing, not the least bit of help. And I'd be real blunt about it. Get them both together and sit them down and say, "Just so it's clear to everyone, I WILL NOT HELP YOU. I won't help you get the horse, care for it, trim it, feed it, ride it, train it, nothing. Since you are determined to kill yourselves, physically & financially, I will not discuss this topic with you ever again. Good luck." and walk away. No arguments, no excuses, nothing, just walk and cut off conversation that starts to go into the topic. This is going to cause problems because they are both bullheaded but it's not YOUR problem, so let them get on with creating it and then fixing it.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I'm with the on farm lease idea where they have to pay all the costs. That way she can see first hand how much work and money goes into keeping a horse.
I could tell you to stand aside if they don't listen and it all goes wrong, but if you're anything like me and care about animals, then you won't be able to stand by and watch a horse that's within your own family suffer while you call out 'I told you so'. 
To sort of repeat what someone else already said, if they insist on buying a horse then either try to make sure they buy a horse that you'd want to keep for yourself or that will sell on really easily to a new home.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

I am with the others. Take a hard stand and then step away. Tell them in very specific terms that you feel this is not a good idea and that you do not want to be a part of it. Enlist your husband - tell him your fears that she is going to get hurt or end up in a financial situation she was not expecting. if she thinks $400 is sufficient for a nice horse she is in no way ready for all of the expenses horses entail.

You need to be firm and I would also rescind the offer to ride your greenie - no matter how gentle - each time you get on that horse you are training it. Do you really want someone training that horse who does not know how to ride?

Be firm! It really is the right thing to do.


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## TimmysMom (Aug 15, 2009)

mmshiro said:


> She doesn't know she's horse crazy until she got hurt at least once and is still horse crazy. Be sure to make room, budget, and by her the horse that you'd want for yourself, because you'll end up with it.
> 
> Sorry - it's a bad situation all around, for you and the poor creature about to enter her "care".


I totally disagree with telling her to buy the horse for her MIL at all.
Step away well-meaning friend form your MIL and know you have done the best you can do.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

When it's family, you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. (Help , that is.)


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

tinyliny said:


> When it's family, you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. (Help , that is.)


Yeah. It's bad. I would definitely also try to explain the situation to your husband, in case your MIL starts complaining to him. Tell him you're afraid she's going to get hurt, and you wouldn't want that.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

TimmysMom said:


> I totally disagree with telling her to buy the horse for her MIL at all.
> Step away well-meaning friend form your MIL and know you have done the best you can do.


MIL *will* end up with a horse, whether she makes an enemy of OP in the process or not.


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## Feathers7 (Jun 11, 2019)

> "...MIL has always been horse crazy, but has never really had the time or money to ride,..."


"When are you going to have the time to train your own horse? Come on. Let's get you one that's already trained and that you will enjoy a lot more."
"Training takes time. Don't you want to ride sooner?"
"Do you want to end up with a broken hip?"



> That's when she said to me "Oh, I could never pay that much for a horse! I want a free horse, like the one you got."


"You get what you pay for."

"$1500.00 is what you'd be paying for a good many years of happiness and the assurance of a horse that you can ride and won't kill you."
"You're not going to find another horse like the one I have."



> "She's already hinting at getting "family discounts" for trimming and shoeing..."


"Trimming my own horse is hard enough. I can't do a second. It'd kill my back."
"And if your untrained, $400 that you don't have time to train...decides to kick me?"

And here's a good one: I usually try to avoid this and help everyone find ways to take care of their horses, but if you're really trying to get her to not want a horse...get her to not want to hurt a horse. What I mean by that is, emphasize that if she can't afford the horse, she can't afford the care that the horse will need. Shed some light about taking care of the horse's diet and what all of their needs are, not just hoof care. Use lots of juicy science that overwhelms her brain with the complete opposite of what she wants to hear: "that everything will be fine!" Nothing kills that mystical, magical 'very own horse' stuff like figuring out your lack of funds would end up doing harm to the horse. She might go for just accepting that it's better for others to be responsible owners, and she take lessons.

Otherwise, ACinATX had very good advice about a difficult lesson horse. Just don't orchestrate that, and then your MiL gets hurt. That's not good for either of you.


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## CopperLove (Feb 14, 2019)

I had to do a double take when I saw your name and your post... Rat Lady is part of my description on Facebook :lol: and I too am currently policing my mother on buying a horse, although she has prior horse experience and is looking for something well-broke that she knows she will have to pay for, she still tends to let her heart lead (I felt very bad recently explaining why she absolutely should not place a bid on a horse someone was advertising that was "walk-trot" only because it was too stiff in its hocks to be worked at a canter... she wants a horse that doesn't have a lot of "go" but I had to remind her what a bad idea it was to take on a horse that was already in pain when we have no idea what the underlying cause is, it would probably be expensive if possible at all to fix, and even a well-tempered horse that is in pain may eventually buck/kick/etc. to avoid being ridden because of the pain.)

I agree with horselovinguy.... since they are ignoring your advice and probably expecting you to train and trim the animal for free, you should probably tell them that you will not be involved in this at all because you will not be held responsible when someone gets hurt nor when the horse is sick or injured from improper care.

The idea of giving them numbers of boarding, vets, etc. to call and make their own arrangements is also a good one. It would be "helping" but removing yourself from the situation somewhat. If they don't have their own trailer to haul the potential horse in, I see that being the first hold-up. When they have to look at paying someone to haul, and have to line out the first month of boarding before-hand, that may in itself stop them.


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## CopperLove (Feb 14, 2019)

Oh, you're also more than welcome to share my story if it helps: We were "given" a horse while my aunt was running a local boarding ban.

We were only paying $125 a month boarding with my aunt, providing some extras. Then my aunt's boarding barn situation changed. My dad spend Well over $2,000 on materials to turn a building on our property into a half-decent barn (and that's without the cost of labor, my aunt's fiance did all the building because they desperately needed a place for their multiple horses as well since they wouldn't be running the boarding barn anymore.) I still need to add additional fencing to the property so that's even more money that will go into that. I would have found a place to board but dad was determined we were bringing the horses home, so I am grateful for that.

The horse was broke but very difficult to handle for a beginner. So I started taking riding lessons ($100 a month, or $25 per lesson and that IMO is cheap for riding lessons, with people I trust and good beginner horses.) Now to tune-up her training though, I am boarding her with my instructors paying $453 a month, which includes everything including a farrier trim and I am well aware that $453 a month is CHEAP for the kind of services I'm getting (Lessons/personal help, boarding, feed, hay, a trim a month as needed, etc.) I know from reading around the forum that $300 or $400 is sometimes the basic cost of boarding/feeding alone at some facilities.

She's only had to have one vet visit since we got her, just for vaccines and to get a coggins test and check her age, and that was $118 dollars.

So, not even counting the feed, pine shavings, halters, lead ropes, fly spray, hay that I've bought, my dad and I have already invested over $3,000 in a "free horse".

And even though I wasn't aware of how much extra work she would need, we did go into this fully knowing there's no such thing as a "free horse" ever. What you don't spend up front you're always going to spend on the back end later.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Been, done that with in-laws, same thing, horse crazy, no real experience. Wouldn't take my advice until They got their cheap horse and couldn't catch it. Then they wanted help, I told them to call the previous owner and see if they could pay them to take it back. The haven't spoken to me since then, years & years ago, lol. I wasn't too far off in my advise, a neighbor took it off their hands for free when they moved. Bro in law & his family.


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

Do you have any friends with difficult horses? The kind that drags people around, throws a fit on the lunge line, is nasty to people? I’d casually take her to see such horses, maybe Even ride one on a lunge line. Find something that is bargy and speedy and difficult to stop but doesn’t throw the rider. It should be enough to scare her.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Sorry, I don't think she should be "scared" but be informed...
_There *is* a difference._
She, they need to understand that finding a animal is the easy part.
It is the dedication of daily care the animal requires to keep it a nice animal.
Besides the initial expense of acquiring tack and grooming supplies we all know it is the commitment of time, and much energy that is what fails most who take on a horse unprepared.
It is then also the continual drain to their finances of many hundreds of dollars a month and could rapidly go to thousands for one illness taking place.
"They" are not going to listen to your words of wisdom, they have already proved that with not listening but telling you about horse care and such, and for that reason...you are best to state the cold-hard facts and walk-away.
Do _*not*_ be sucked back in to their problem now in the making or it _will _become your problem.
Tough love in this case _*is*_ going to create a rift...
How big a rift, and if you want the Grand Canyon or a small earth split from dry weather is something only you can decide and will need to live with.
This is still your husbands family and he _will_ feel the pain. 
The fact they come to your home, you've offered her your horse to ride tells me you are closer than most in-laws situations.
There is a middle road here too...
One I think being clear of expenses they will face and the fact you can _*not*_ step in and do more for them is paramount they get it..._you can *not* and will *not* bail them out when they are in over their head._
_That is your biggest concern, being in over their head financially and her being over-faced with inexperience being hurt.
_Most people love the romantic idea of horses and riding...never realizing how much work, expense and changing of your lifestyle needs done to accommodate that animal now in the family so they receive proper care with all areas falling under "care"...and how much that $$$ costs every single month.
But "scare her" might just be the catalyst to backfire & where they wobbled it will now be "I'll show her..."
Think this through very carefully before going one-step further in any direction.
It is easy for all of us to be chair-side therapists and advice giver. 
It is far harder to execute what needs done and live with the consequences when it is "family". :|
I wish you good luck...no matter what you do you are being "the bad-guy"...
:runninghorse2:...
_jmo..._


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

@horselovinguy I absolutely agree that she should be informed rather than scared - but it’s not working at all. Sure, if she was buying a computer and refused to listen to advice I would just let her make her own mistakes. Buying a horse could end very badly for both the lady and the horse and I personally wouldn’t be ashamed of using manipulation to prevent it.


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## Ratlady (Nov 13, 2018)

Thanks so much to everyone for their suggestions. I'll try to go through and clarify some things.

My husband is absolutely, 1000% on my side over this. He's seen me bust my hip irreparably, shatter my wrist and wreck my SI joint over nasty, poorly handled horses. He will help me explain my reasoning to my in laws, but if I have to be the bad guy, my husband is on board with being the bad guy right there with me. I don't have to worry at all about upsetting him over his mother's bad decisions, he knows horses well enough to know they can be dangerous if you don't know what you're doing.

I'm fully aware that I enabled this behaviour, and in hindsight I wish I could take it all back. I never thought having someone plod around on my horse would turn into this train wreck! I only thought of it as my fatty getting some exercise and giving my MIL some saddle time. I wish I could've known she would have such unrealistic expectations. I won't be offering any help with her hypothetical horse other than providing phone numbers to vets, farriers, ect. I love the idea of being conveniently busy for an extended period of time when she does get a horse.

I've talked to her about an on site lease, that was shut down real quick. She wants her very own horse, and no force in hell nor earth will stop her. Everyone who suggested that they have a habit of being not so great with finances is right. I'll make up a spreadsheet of all one time, monthly and annual expenses similar to the one I made before I got my horse. It would set any reasonable person straight, but I have a sneaking suspicion that she'll be gung-ho about it regardless, because my FIL will endlessly reassure her that he does in fact have the money despite knowing full well he doesn't.

The crazy lesson horses idea is interesting, because I know a lady who has a barn full of them! I'll definitely have to introduce them and get her to tell my MIL all about her chronically lame horse who's cost over 6k in a few months, and her other horse who's been in glue ons for a few cycles at 260$ per shoeing. I know my MIL won't get seriously injured there, because all of her lesson horses are well broke, but they're all high octane thoroughbreds and can be quite a handful for a fresh beginner.

I do realize that at the end of the day, I've really set myself up for ruin here. Family is complicated and I'll absolutely end up being the bad guy no matter what happens. I don't want to scare her out of horse ownership, but she's also not listening to me at all. I feel like my only options here are to scare her out of it, or let her make her own mistakes.

I do really like my MIL, and I don't want to see her put herself in financial ruin or end up in the ER. I also know that if anything goes wrong, it'll be my *** they come for despite doing my best to deter them. It seems like the best thing I can do is remove myself from the situation and invoke their ire that way before they have the chance to blame me for any injury.

It seems like no good deed goes unpunished...


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## Ratlady (Nov 13, 2018)

Another thing, a huge roadblock is that she THINKS they can afford it, because my FIL won't tell her that they can't. He's the only one in their household who works, and she doesn't really have much to do with finances. He will not tell her no, despite both my husband and I begging him to. 

If she does buy a horse and then wants to get rid of it, I will under no circumstance take it off her hands. I only have the time and patience to have one horse at a time, and have no desire for a second one. I've always been of the opinion that its better to have one really nice horse than to have a pasture full of semi feral lawsuits on legs.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

Wow, what a dumpster fire. First of all, it doesn't matter who "does" the money in the family. I do the money in my family, but if my wife wants to see the numbers, she'll see the numbers - right on the website, not after I'm done prettying them up. Numbers are what they are and they don't change reality. 

If she can't envision getting a horse for $1,000, give or take, she already knows she can't afford the upkeep. And by "upkeep" I mean "for the next decade or so". Yes, hardship happens, but nobody ever got out of a tough financial spot by mortgaging the house to get a Ferrari. 

She really needs to have a clear understanding of her family's cash flow, liquid assets, invested assets, illiquid assets, and - wait for it - debt. If hubby doesn't have the heart to tell her that she can't by the XYZ, I'm thinking there's a fistful of credit cards that are about to blow up all around them. Just before the bank forecloses on the house, or the landlord initiates eviction proceedings. 

I just hope your husband has a backbone and knows where his priorities to allocate his resources of time, energy, and money lie: With the family he married into, not the one he moved out of. Keep your head on a swivel. Hubby's family has a tenuous relationship with reality. Don't get caught in the crossfire.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

mmshiro said:


> Wow, what a dumpster fire. First of all, it doesn't matter who "does" the money in the family. I do the money in my family, but if my wife wants to see the numbers, she'll see the numbers - right on the website, not after I'm done prettying them up. Numbers are what they are and they don't change reality.
> 
> If she can't envision getting a horse for $1,000, give or take, she already knows she can't afford the upkeep. And by "upkeep" I mean "for the next decade or so". Yes, hardship happens, but nobody ever got out of a tough financial spot by mortgaging the house to get a Ferrari.
> 
> ...


And the choir sang, "AMEN"


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## Ratlady (Nov 13, 2018)

I'm thinking I might just show her this thread. If she won't listen to me, maybe she'd be willing to listen to the dozens of other experienced horse people on here echoing the things I've been trying to say this whole time.

This whole situation is certainly a dumpster fire, and I'm feeling a lot better about walking away and letting them make their own bad decisions now. I hate to be the horrible daughter in law, but for the sake of my sanity I can't be wrapped up in this slow motion train wreck. I can't feel responsible when she inevitably gets hurt. I tried to warn her...

Its amazing to me how this could all be solved with her picking up a part time job, saving some money for a few months for a decent horse and making a budget, yet they're so steadfastly unwilling to change their lifestyle. Its not like she should never have a horse ever, they just have to be realistic. Which is a lot to ask for, apparently.

Now I'm just venting!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

best not show them ALL this thread.


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## RidingWithRuby (Apr 18, 2019)

Man, that is rough. I hate to think of your MIL getting hurt, but I also hate to think of the poor horse if things go south, which it sounds like they very much will.

Being reasonable seemed to have no effect, so I would go with the tough-love mentioned above.... Spreadsheet of vet costs, feed, tack, emergency fund, farrier (because you don't need another horse to deal with!)

I'm wondering what she might think if she were to watch a training session with one of these "free" horses she wants. Don't know if you know of anyone with an unruly horse, but you could show her how truly naughty and dangerous they can be. Tell her they got the horse for free if it'd help.

You could see if she would volunteer at a barn for a day? Might change her mind about having a horse of her own if she experiences firsthand what it's like to shovel manure, feed, groom, turn out, etc. It's not all fun and games, it's bugs and horse poo and bales of hay.

Just thinking out loud here, your MIL sounds stubborn from what you've said, so these probably wouldn't work well.


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## MissLulu (Feb 3, 2019)

Does your MIL know the amount of time needed to care for a horse? Right now Lulu is at the trainer's barn with full boarding but I still spend a huge amount of my time caring for her. They supply the hay but I supply any other feed she needs and I am there at least 4-5 times a week (over an hour drive) to watch her training, ride her, groom her, or be there when the farrier/vet/chiropractor/etc. is out (I don't have to be there for those things, my trainer said that is part of what I am paying her for but Lulu is my horse and feel I should be there so I can ask questions and understand what care she needs). 



Does your MIL know about flies? I didn't. Well, sort of, but my little 30lbs., live indoor, Border Collies don't attract many flies. I hate fly spray. But I use it because I don't want my horse to suffer. I'm also not a fan of fly masks because they get filthy and need to be washed. I have two right now but am thinking of getting a couple more. 



And I agree with having a spreadsheet of costs. Who knew my horse would need a chiropractor??? And she does need her adjustments. When I first got her she was so sassy! And everyone just said, "Well, you have a mare!" I had the farrier come out and he is also a chiropractor and he adjusted her and the next day I had a completely different horse. She was relaxed and sweet and I am beginning to tell when she needs an adjustment. 



I hope you can convince your MIL not to get a horse. And don't blame yourself but don't get sucked into taking care of HER horse when everything goes downhill.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Ratlady said:


> I'm thinking I might just show her this thread. If she won't listen to me, maybe she'd be willing to listen to the dozens of other experienced horse people on here echoing the things I've been trying to say this whole time.
> 
> This whole situation is certainly a dumpster fire, and I'm feeling a lot better about walking away and letting them make their own bad decisions now. I hate to be the horrible daughter in law, but for the sake of my sanity I can't be wrapped up in this slow motion train wreck. I can't feel responsible when she inevitably gets hurt. I tried to warn her...
> 
> ...


LOL! I'm with whoever said to maybe not show the WHOLE thread, but then again, maybe you should. Don't buy fault from her refusal to listen. Yes, you can be empathetic when she inevitably gets hurt, but don't buy any responsibility for that. She's the one who's acting like a spoiled 3 year old. I, personally, would them both that I didn't want to hear any more about it, would not be helping them pick out, train, trim or anything else and I'd walk away from the whole discussion. Bottom line, it's THEIR decision and thus, THEIR problems, not yours. You've done what you can, now it's time to recognize when you're arguing with a stump.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Maybe, instead of showing your MIL this thread (probably a bad idea), you can at least put your thoughts in writing as a way to protect yourself if this should blow up in your face down the road. Send her a long email and attach the spreadsheet. In the email, sum up the total cost of keeping a horse for a year. Give her the basic number, and then give her a higher number that would account for additional costs such as vet bills (be conservative, but give her something), chiro, cost of hay going up, training, etc. etc. Tell her that you do not think this is a good idea, and that you are afraid she might get hurt. Also, tell her you only have time for your horse right now, so you will not be able to help much other than providing her with resources such as numbers for vet, farrier, trainer. Copy your husband and your FIL in the email. Be kind (express how much you like and care about her), but firm. 

At the very least, this will show that you tried should something go terribly wrong... 

Oh, and thanks for sharing this story. I am one of those people who is always offering to let non-horse people come sit on my horses and putter around. I'm going to be more careful about this now because it gives them the idea that this is easy, and anyone can do it. We all need to do a better job educating people about what it means to own and ride horses.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I wouldn't even offer any help to them anymore. They are grown adults. If they don't listen, that's their problem. Not your responsibility. While they are your husband's parents, still - that doesn't mean you owe them ANYTHING. Be firm with them & let them know you've warned them many times, & they refuse to take any advice or listen. Whatever happens, happens & it won't be your problem.

Don't even feel bad, either - people do this all the time. They think they know everything & you can try to help them all you want, but it's useless. It's like talking to a brick wall. Then when something bad happens, well, I told ya so. 

You're not being a horrible DIL either. You actually were too nice to them IMO! LOL, they don't deserve anymore help or advice.  You are doing the right thing by walking away from it.


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## pasomountain (Dec 19, 2018)

People can be so scary. Just the other day I was talking to a new lady at work and mentioned that I had horses. Immediately she said "If I sign a waiver can I come ride??" I barely know this woman! 

I will say this--all the reading about how much horses potentially cost won't stop anyone determined to have one. When I was younger I constantly read horse magazines and it sounded like horses were always sick and/or lame if you went by all the articles exploring that topic. However I still got into horse ownership. Sure enough my free first horse had soundness issues but that didn't stop me either. I've been hurt by them and scared of them and spent tons of money for them but almost 30 years later I still have two and hope to always be involved with them. 

So, maybe go ahead and let this situation run it's course--if your MIL really is horse crazy she will stick it out. If not she will learn the hard way unfortunately and give it up. It's fine to give advice, and you should. But you can't make anybody listen.


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## buckskinbaby (Aug 16, 2017)

What I would recommend is this: 

Since they don't listen to you when you talk, put it on paper. 

Make a nice, clear document of exactly all the costs you can think of in the first 6 months at the supposed 'lowest' rates you can justify (Ie. Horse Cost: $400. Trailering the horse home ($60/hour) : $120. ect, etc) and include time spent per activity. Be sure to add in the amount of time spent with the horse taking care of it each day (ie. daily feeding: 30 mins, daily exercise including barn time: 2 hours). Also be sure to include anything that you would be willing to help find 'discounts' for but do not feel pressured to do it all, make sure you are only promising what you would ACTUALLY WANT to do, so that when they ask 'why is this so much?!' you can honestly say that it is a MINIMUM cost. Put it in a three column table with the first being 'what', second 'time' and third 'cost' so it is clear to read.

Then, instead of trying to have a conversation, simply present them with the doc including total hours and $ at the bottom for the first 6 months (hours/week) and let them decide from there. If they still decide to get the horse, it is no shame on you for not trying to warn them properly because you did everything you could and outlined their expenses as best you could for them. 

I made one of these docs when I was thinking of purchasing my first horse (besides the one I rode as a teenager) and it made everything way more clear and broken down for me and my husband, and made us realize that we really would have to save a bit more before we started into the journey.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

People who have their mind set on something don't listen. They have a vision in their heads and no amount of reasoning, writing letters, financial spreadsheets, signs from God, etc., is going to change it. To them, you are the fun police. Especially relatives, in-laws, even more so.


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## Ratlady (Nov 13, 2018)

Just thought I'd give a terrifying update to all those interested...

She did listen to me and raise her budget again to 800$. Not great, but better, right?

Well she told me today that she found The Perfect Horse. He's a 14 year old gelding, sound as can be, has been ridden plenty, and is well within her budget. Sounds great, I thought... 

Then she tells me it is not only very pushy, but it has a bucking problem!!!!!!

She's convinced that she can fix it, and plans to go see and likely buy the horse sometime next week. I told her that pushiness, and ESPECIALLY bucking are very, very serious issues that usually require a professional to fix. I left it at that, and have removed myself from the situation entirely. There's nothing more I can do. My husband had a long talk with her about it too, but she's got herself convinced. FIL is of the opinion of "how hard could it possibly be?" My husband is also removing himself from the situation.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be out cribbing with the thoroughbreds from all the stress...


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

mg: 


_Run..._not only close the door...


_*SLAM the door and lock it behind you!!*_


Trouble is brewing and you know you want no part of it...
I just hope she not get seriously hurt...
:runninghorse2:...


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Sorry to hear this @Ratlady. You did all you could. Hopefully she will quickly realize that this horse is way too scary for her and he'll be a pasture pet. Unfortunately, this will increase the likelihood of him never becoming a good riding horse down the road, but it would be the best case scenario here I'm afraid...


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

@Ratlady How scary! But I am so glad your husband is on your side and you are not fighting that battle as well. Keep us updated on the horse purchase - and rest easy knowing you did all you could to educate her.

PS- your comment about cribbing darn near made me spew my drink all over my computer.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Wow. Your in-laws are just clueless. They obviously can't hear anything against buying a horse. 


One can't reason with an unreasonable person, so give up on trying.

Be busy and unavailable for help of any kind. This is called "Natural consequences" and is the best form of learning. Trying to prevent people from making mistakes may seem to be kind-hearted, but these in-laws of yours need to learn things the hard way. 


The only thing I would mention, is tell your MIL (and FIL) that she must ride a horse she is planning to purchase before she buys it. This is a " horse buying rule" that must be followed. With any luck she will have a horrible experience trying to ride and become scared of the horse right away. 


Let nature take its course, she will either sink or swim on her own. Otherwise, be too busy for the next six months to help her.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

That's a shame...but, she will have to learn on her own. Insane. :icon_rolleyes: There could be many reasons why the horse is bucking. Pain, issues, etc...but she will have to deal with it, tell her good luck!

If she gets hurt, that's on her. I bet she will probably sell him not too far after she buys him because she won't be able to handle it (although she clearly thinks she can...). Let her do what she wants, nothing will stop her at this point anyway. Just grab some popcorn...


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## keelan (Jan 5, 2010)

*Option?*

How about a lease? That will give a taste without going over the cliff.


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## CopperLove (Feb 14, 2019)

Ah, just looked in on this thread again. Sorry that has been the outcome. You were very sensible in your advice though. I don't see how any beginner thinks that a horse that is KNOWN to buck regularly is a good deal for any amount of money. While I know that any horse is a creature with a mind of its own and it's possible for anything to happen, willingly getting on a horse I knew for sure was probably going to buck would ruin my nerves. She's quickly going to see she's not going to like this, and hopefully she won't be hurt in the process.

"Pushy" behavior is what has me boarding/training for that extra $453 a month currently (really not that much extra, as a good portion of that is feed, hay, stall shavings, etc. that I would be buying anyway). In my mare's case I really think it's because no one has ever really taught her how they expect her to behave on the ground, or if they did it's been so long ago she needs to be reminded. She's responded really well so far even to just the simple things I was trying to do with her before taking her to my instructors, but I did have advice from older family members who'd handled horses before, and still there's no telling how long I'll be boarding her and getting help because we're starting back at ground level. And it isn't just her learning, it's me learning everything too which is very valuable as a beginner. So there really is no telling how long that extra money every month will be a part of my budget plan. I'm sorry your MIL doesn't realize she won't be able to go anywhere with a bucking horse that she doesn't know how to ride. But you are right to leave it alone at this point, sorry that you are dealing with this.


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## Ratlady (Nov 13, 2018)

My husband in a last ditch attempt to convince her otherwise told her how bucking in horses can often be caused by pain and she'd want a pre-purchase exam IF she isn't scared off by the test ride... Best case scenario she would need regular chiro visits or hock injections to keep him from bucking, but that also doesn't stop the pushiness issue. Worst case scenario she gets really hurt. 

She's still not deterred... 

I'll keep this thread updated for the lurkers or if anyone else has advice.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

"Guilty, your Honor!" to the charge of lurking.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Lurking here, too. 



Is it bad I'm hoping she gets dumped during the 'test ride'? Not badly hurt, but scared enough to rethink this proposition for herself and the horse's sake....


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Ditto, lurking. But in a very supportive way! 

You're doing the best you can!


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## Ratlady (Nov 13, 2018)

SilverMaple said:


> Lurking here, too.
> 
> 
> 
> Is it bad I'm hoping she gets dumped during the 'test ride'? Not badly hurt, but scared enough to rethink this proposition for herself and the horse's sake....


You know, I'm really crossing my fingers that she gets dumped too. Of course I don't want her to get hurt, but a little scare might not be a bad thing at this point. I saw some good brand name riding helmets on clearance at the local tractor supply store, I told her to go pick one up if she's going to get on a strange horse!!


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Think you need to rephrase that helmet thing..."I told her to go pick one up if she's going to get on a strange horse!!"....Please, _*any horse*_ she should be wearing a helmet when astride, especially since she knows it all. :icon_rolleyes:
:falloff:... 
I truly hope she knows as we age we don't bounce as we used to but go plop or thud...and it hurts literally to get off the ground from a active dismount of "eat dirt".

She needs more than a "little" scare...she needs and is going to get a come-to-me-meeting so she realizes _you have been_ protecting her bacon and now it is in the fire sizzling away.
She _*is*_ in over her head..._you know that_, she is about to find that out..

Hang on tight tis about to get a wee bit bumpy as reality hits home!! :|

*And yup...me lurking too. *
:runninghorse2:...


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## RidingWithRuby (Apr 18, 2019)

Lurking too.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Lurk, lurk, lurkity lurk......


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

Lurker here as well.
It’s like watching a car crash in slow motion, morbid curiosity.

She doesn’t even own a helmet?
This is not going to end well.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

Ratlady said:


> You know, I'm really crossing my fingers that she gets dumped too.


She won't. If the horse is a known bucker and needs to get sold, he'll be sedated. It's not as though she has the resources to bring out a vet with her...does she?


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## Squeaky McMurdo (Sep 19, 2017)

I think she needs to ride my half Arab pony. If he hasn’t been ridden in a while, he ducks right out from under you. One second you’re riding high and suddenly you get a 2ft drop in altitude before he sits back up and trots off. Most people that aren’t anticipating this slide right off his butt with nothing hurt but their pride.


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## Ratlady (Nov 13, 2018)

I've told her that she needs to have a vet go with her for a PPE and get blood drawn to test for later at the absolute minimum because of possible drugging, but she's very willing to take sellers at face value and she wants to get a horse as cheaply as possible. I highly doubt she'd spend the 300$ on a decent workup from a reputable equine vet. 

I did explain to her early on that a lot of horse sellers at her price point are unscrupulous, but she couldn't possibly understand why someone would sell a lame or dangerous horse. She said to me "if their horse is lame or has training issues, wouldn't they want to know?" and I had to tell her that they already know, and that's why they're for sale for so cheap!

I did talk to one of my horsey friends about the issue, and she had a very similar reaction to everyone else who replied to this thread. She has put out feelers for at very least a safe horse for my MIL, and even said she'd be willing to talk to her before she went and bought anything. She's older, so I'm hoping she'll do a better job getting through to her than I did.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

$1500 is about the minimum one can expect to get anything remotely safe, and even then it's a gamble. If it's safe and cheap, it's old and lame. If it's pretty and cheap, it's not broke to ride or it bucks, etc.


Does she think car dealers are honest? If so, she's gonna get hoodwinked. If she thinks they aren't, tell her horse sellers are way, way worse.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Oh, I had a thought. How about going through a rescue? Most rescues seem to be pretty strict about who they will give a horse to, and straightforward about costs. Even if she didn't get a horse through there, having someone explain about horse care and horse costs might help (although it does sound like she's a bit hard headed). Rescue horses are often cheaper than another horse with the same amount of training, and it seems to me that rescues aren't interested in lying about their horses to make them seem better. *AND* if it all goes south, they'll take the horse back.

Re: "if their horse is lame or has training issues, wouldn't they want to know?" LOL she sounds just like my SIL. She's got an understanding of how the world works and will not budge from that.


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## whisperbaby22 (Jan 25, 2013)

Lurker to this train wreck, too. Hopefully nothing bad will happen.


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## Ratlady (Nov 13, 2018)

ACinATX said:


> Oh, I had a thought. How about going through a rescue? Most rescues seem to be pretty strict about who they will give a horse to, and straightforward about costs. Even if she didn't get a horse through there, having someone explain about horse care and horse costs might help (although it does sound like she's a bit hard headed). Rescue horses are often cheaper than another horse with the same amount of training, and it seems to me that rescues aren't interested in lying about their horses to make them seem better. *AND* if it all goes south, they'll take the horse back.
> 
> Re: "if their horse is lame or has training issues, wouldn't they want to know?" LOL she sounds just like my SIL. She's got an understanding of how the world works and will not budge from that.


I did recommend a few rescues to her actually. The problem with them is that they're very honest and upfront about the problems their horses have. 

A lot of the horses from rescues in her price range have issues with founder, arthritis, sidebone ect and she doesn't want to deal with that. That's totally understandable, but she thinks the horses she finds through private sellers online for the same price point will be more sound/sane/trained.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

waresbear said:


> Been, done that with in-laws, same thing, horse crazy, no real experience. Wouldn't take my advice until They got their cheap horse and couldn't catch it. Then they wanted help, I told them to call the previous owner and see if they could pay them to take it back. The haven't spoken to me since then, years & years ago, lol. I wasn't too far off in my advise, a neighbor took it off their hands for free when they moved. Bro in law & his family.


This is such an elegant solution, @waresbear! Two birds with one stone! :rofl:

I'm on the side that says, "Don't tangle with people who are trouble." Dear @Ratlady, you've already wasted your breath, I'd pull out of being involved in a horse buying project at all, on which there has already been lots of great advice from other posters. Encouraging MIL to take lessons is fine, and that's something you could be involved in if you wanted to be. Don't enable your in-laws, and have enough distance so you can't be sucked into their problems. They are adults, and if they want to merrily do thoughtless things, without informing themselves, they will - don't make it your problem. Good luck! :smile:


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

waresbear said:


> People who have their mind set on something don't listen. They have a vision in their heads and no amount of reasoning, writing letters, financial spreadsheets, signs from God, etc., is going to change it. To them, you are the fun police. Especially relatives, in-laws, even more so.


I just thought that bore repeating. @waresbear, you're capping it for me today with short, to the point advice. inkunicorn: And I'm glad you didn't get caught up in that particular situation with your own family, and instead used your time and energy for more useful matters, such as living your own life. :hug:


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

horselovinguy said:


> mg:
> 
> 
> _Run..._not only close the door...
> ...


Yep, but sometimes, people need to get hurt as a consequence of their own actions, in order to have a life-changing epiphany. Ask anyone who's had a near-death experience! :Angel:




carshon said:


> @Ratlady PS- your comment about cribbing darn near made me spew my drink all over my computer.


Yeah, me too! :rofl: Take good care of yourself, @Ratlady. You are not responsible for the actions of other adults. Disengagement is a fine thing. Are there any Zen masters in your vicinity? ;-)


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## keelan (Jan 5, 2010)

Is your MIL in competition With you? And where is your husband in all this?


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

keelan said:


> Is your MIL in competition With you? And where is your husband in all this?


From what I understand based on OP's updates, we have live footage of hubby's attitude about this situation:


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

mmshiro said:


> From what I understand based on OP's updates, we have live footage of hubby's attitude about this situation:


I don't care who you are, that's funny right there!


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## Ratlady (Nov 13, 2018)

I have new updates on the train wreck. 

My in laws went out to see that horse who's a known bucker and by some miracle, neither they nor the owner of the horse could catch it. They were there for over an hour too. Because of that, my MIL decided against buying that horse. Thank God!!

BUT... and there's always a but... 

She's found another horse that she plans on test riding tomorrow. The owner didn't say the mare bucks, but that she can be "strong willed and stubborn" and "needs and intermediate to advanced rider" which my MIL definitely is not! She's been on two trail rides in the past 30 years or so, and that doesn't make you an "intermediate to advanced" rider!

My husband, the least confrontational person ever, got into a bit of an argument with her over the weekend. He offered to take her to a tack shop to get a nice helmet and maybe a body protector, and she is flat out refusing to wear a helmet to ride. Ever. Because helmets are ugly. My husband kind of lost it and argued that it could save her life if she cracks her skull on the ground, but she seems very confident that she won't fall off and get seriously hurt. 

I really feel for my husband in this situation. He doesn't want to see his mom get hurt, but she's so determined to get a nasty horse to put her on the ground.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

How bizarre! It's not the person who becoms brain injured that suffers the most . . . it's the family that must care for them.


I just ordered a new helmet. I think it looks just peachy keen!


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

I hate to say this, but ... it sounds like she has a pretty thick skull. So maybe she doesn't need the helmet. She has the natural protection.

But seriously, it looks ugly so she's not going to wear it? I'm so sorry you're going through all of this.

As someone who only recently got into riding, I can tell you that someone with very little experience can definitely consider themselves a good enough rider for an "intermediate" level horse, LOL.


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## Ratlady (Nov 13, 2018)

I forgot to mention that I am in my early twenties and, like a lot of horse people, have a plethora of injuries directly related to horses, which I've told her all about. 

I told her about the time I blacked out and got a concussion after landing head first off a horse, and I was wearing a helmet for that! If I didn't have a helmet, I have no doubt I would've had to be flown to the ER. I've explained that I credit my life to that helmet. 

The first time I met my MIL I had a limp from falling off a horse and dislocating my hip. I had that limp for a year, and now my hip is permanently damaged. I can't really ride anymore because of that injury. 

I currently have a horrifically broken wrist from getting kicked by a nasty, unhandled horse, and the same kick threw my SI joint out of place. I can't continue my apprenticeship for two and a half months because of a single kick. 

I've told her all of these stories, yet she has the audacity to say she won't get hurt. That's really what terrifies my husband and I the most. She should know better. I don't know if she has a death wish or something, but it sure seems like it sometimes.

I'd feel so much better if she'd just wear the brain bucket. There are some nice looking ones too!


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

All you can tell her is, don't do it! We worry for you and we are not going to be happy when it becomes a I told you so type situation. She has got it in her head that she's going to get a horse come hell or high water. Hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Maybe she'll just get a twisted ankle and some road rash. It's really sad that people behave like this, I get the part of wanting to have horses. Doing it this way is going to get her out of horses. She should be taking lessons, a quiet horse, being around quiet horses, learning skills.... Then when the time is right she can get a horse, and probably have it for a long time and ride well into her golden years and fuel the horse economy somewhat. This way usually ends up the person not wanting a horse again because they got hurt, things didn't go as planned, etc. It's a shame really.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Ratlady said:


> I forgot to mention that I am in my early twenties and, like a lot of horse people, have a plethora of injuries directly related to horses, which I've told her all about.
> 
> I told her about the time I blacked out and got a concussion after landing head first off a horse, and I was wearing a helmet for that! If I didn't have a helmet, I have no doubt I would've had to be flown to the ER. I've explained that I credit my life to that helmet.
> 
> ...


This lady seems like the person whom the adage "you can't fix stupid" was written for. Maybe she has a guardian angel. She sure sounds like she needs one.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

I wonder what *really* motivates her. Clearly, getting a horse isn't it; that's just a pretext for something else. Midlife crisis? Something to prove? Filling a void? I don't think she has a death wish, but the prize she has in mind clearly outweighs all the risks...so by comparison those risks must be less severe than what she's trying to "fix" in her life. If she's capable of rational thought and decisions in other aspects of her life, that's where we are at. If she has other defects in terms of rational decision making, she needs clinical help, pronto. I mean, this is one step away from taking flight off the roof of an apartment building by flapping your arms!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

And sometimes all you can do is to step back and watch Icarus crash and burn.


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

Are you sure she’s not showing signs of dementia? Because all of this sounds like she isn’t processing reality all that well. I cannot imagine someone being this irrational and living all that long without a guardian. The ugly helmet thing is sounding more and more like crazy talk.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Horsef said:


> Are you sure she’s not showing signs of dementia? Because all of this sounds like she isn’t processing reality all that well. I cannot imagine someone being this irrational and living all that long without a guardian. The ugly helmet thing is sounding more and more like crazy talk.


I know quite a few people like that who definitely don't have dementia. They just think the rules of nature don't apply to them. Or, they don't have much grey matter with which to contemplate reality.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

You and your husband have done all you can to guide this trainwreck to a softer landing.
Maybe it is just the fact your MIL has never experienced the strength of a horse against her, the slam of her body to the ground and no matter how much explaining done, till experienced you don't get it.
I hope for her sake when anything detrimental occurs she is able to get her bruised and battered body off the ground without broken bones, spinal injuries that could put her in a w/c forever of worse.
The financial cost at this point, who cares...they will suffer till they make adjustments and figure it out.
The burden of her care will be your FIL, as will the guilt he did not listen closer to you when you said she was not ready and this is not the way to get a horse.
Do not make their problems yours, do not invite those problems into your home nor into a rift with your husband or his family members.
When confronted, look them both squarely in the face and tell them, "I/we told you the truth repeatedly and you would not listen. I/we are not involved in your situation and will not be. You sink or swim on your own as you know all. We're sorry for you but this doesn't involve us and I/we aren't owning your guilt trip..."

I hope your MIL has a bunch of guardian angels as their wings are going to be beat, battered and broken trying to keep her from harms way.... 
I hope dear MIL doesn't ever fly faster than her guardian angel can cause the landing is going to be a resounding "THUMP" on impact. :frown_color:
:runninghorse2:...


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

Your MIL sounds like a textbook case of the Dunning Kruger Effect, wherein someone who is incompetent at something assumes they're brilliant at it because they don't know enough to know how much they don't know. (The converse is also true for most people -- especially with horse stuff! The more we know the more we know we DON'T know and we tend to undervalue our own competence.)

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect


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## whisperbaby22 (Jan 25, 2013)

This probably will not help, but I wear a hell hat. You can decorate them to look real cool, and really can't tell it's a helmet unless you look.


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## Ratlady (Nov 13, 2018)

Wonderful update!

My horse owning friend and incidentally, the same lady I got my own horse from, found an old gaited mare that was used for this family's special needs child! I went with my mother in law to show her this horse, and she loved this little mare. I rode it just to see what the deal was and despite having the worst fitting bridle I'd ever seen (which I fixed before getting on) she went great for me and for her. 

My MIL is sold on this safe, beginner horse! She's now working on finding a barn that's preferably not mine and transport. 

Now I talked to my mentor (an ex professional horse trainer turned farrier) and he said that this horse is probably her best bet for a safe animal, but he does have a hunch that she'll wreck this horse in due time without lessons. I agree with him wholeheartedly, and have recommended my MIL some good riding instructors I know. Whether she takes the advice is yet to be determined. 

My MIL has a very nasty habit of getting pushed around and used as a doormat by even the most respectful of horses, and loves to hug and kiss horse's faces (and then wonders why they fling their head in the air when she touches their face...) hence why my mentor thinks that this horse will be a wreck in due time. 

But as of right now, this horse is unlikely to kill her immediately, and that's a great start. Now if she does turn this horse into a monster like everyone is anticipating... Well, I'll burn that ulcer riddled bridge when I get to it.

If anyone has any ideas on how to explain why you shouldn't hug and restrict a horses face to this woman, I'd love to hear it. I've tried explaining that to her when she handles my own horse, but like with a lot of horse related things, it goes in one ear and out the other. I'm betting I'll never get through to her on proper horse handling, but I love hearing the suggestions. 

Not to say a horse shouldn't be able to tolerate that, but thats something you do AFTER establishing respect and firm boundaries.

To those wondering, she's normally a very reasonable person. It's just horses that she acts like her brain is fried. And to the one who brought up the Dunning Kruger effect is absolutely right!


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## Feathers7 (Jun 11, 2019)

Hmm. Here are some great videos about seeing horses from a totally different perspective, from one of my favorite people. The first one explains everything you want her to hear, including that "petting the horse's face is how we bond!" attitude. Have her watch videos like this.























Just keep her on track and don't let her watch all of the Fantasia "Friesian" videos, or videos about how to train your horse to lay down ..... yet.

As I was reading through this thread, it occurred to me that she sounds like the kind of person who thinks she's going to fall off of a unicorn, and it will magically spawn a marshmallow for her to land on. She's seems to humanize horses, and that's dangerous -- it sounds like the kind of people who feed their dog anything it wants so long as it seems to enjoy it, including cake batter. BUT so long as she can pay someone to take care of the horse, things should go okay for now. So all the best to your MiL. Y'know, in a way, I'm always happy when someone can have a positive experience with horses. I just hope that the horse is in good hands and that having the horse will spark a bond of love in your MiL that makes her want to take the best care of it that she can....not just for herself, but for the horse too. The love for her horse might inspire her to get that part time job and make a spreadsheet of expenses. Set her up with a really good trainer who is capable of letting her fail, and then asking her "You want to know why that happened? You did that for you, and not for your horse. Your horse needs a leader. This is how you be a leader." One way or another, she's going to learn that anything going wrong will ultimately be because of her, not her very experienced horse. Much tough love!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Ratlady said:


> My MIL has a very nasty habit of getting pushed around and used as a doormat by even the most respectful of horses, and loves to hug and kiss horse's faces (and then wonders why they fling their head in the air when she touches their face...)


It's not love when what you do is repulsive to the object of your alleged love. This is not respectful treatment *of the horse* - and respect for the horse, in my book, is the starting point for a mutually respectful relationship. Practice what you preach, lead by example. Treating the horse with such disrespect is not a good foundation for working with it. A horse is a horse, not a _My Little Pony_ or a lovey-dovey-kissy doll for your own amusement. It's a living creature who has differences from the way humans operate, and we need to respect them for who they are, and get a tactful two-way conversation with them, instead of turning them into a living toy and smooching object.


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## Ratlady (Nov 13, 2018)

@SueC I've explained to her that going up to a strange horse and giving them a big ol' hug on the face and a kiss on the nose is akin to grabbing a strangers butt at the supermarket. It's just inappropriate, and not a great first impression. Unfortunately, that's one of the many horse things we don't see eye to eye on.
@Feathers7 I love Warwick Schiller! I actually have his entire video library downloaded to my desktop for referencing, and I've shared said library with my MIL. She thinks he's mean, but does admit that all of his horses are very well behaved. 

Maybe I'm not as far out of the woods as I thought...


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Yes, excellent analogy, @Ratlady! 

Does she do that, by the way? Grab behinds at the supermarket? ;-) 

...I'm sorry you have a difficult MIL...

...horses are prey animals and don't enjoy finding someone randomly attached to their faces, by vacuum suction or otherwise...


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## Feathers7 (Jun 11, 2019)

Ratlady said:


> She thinks he's mean, but does admit that all of his horses are very well behaved.


Really? I always thought he was pretty tame compared to some others. I think we all think it's mean until we learn what we're actually trying to say to the horse. I'd introduce her to Monty Roberts - I think she'd appreciate him (and see that he's essentially doing the same thing.) 

Some things you just have to let others learn the hard way - I think all of us have some stories about how failure made us better. Maybe taking that experience away from someone is robbing them of a chance to learn. Obviously we don't want them to learn at the horse's expense, but now that your mom actually owns a horse, maybe she'll be much more willing to listen to the how's and why's so that she does things the right way. The other day, my friend's overly confident 10 year old niece told me "Yeah, I have a way with animals"...she wanted to rush right over to my horse and pet her on the face. I told her "Nope, stop right there" and I explained equine eyesight and prey instincts to her. Then I showed her "how to talk to horses." Heh heh! I held her hand until she got it right. She ended up being the cutest little natural horsewoman, looking all puffed up and trying to get my big lazy mare to free lunge in the pasture. And just to spite me, when we were done, my mare puts her nose down right next to my friend's niece's face and they shared a forehead to forehead connection moment...niece said "Thank you." D'aww! So much for my trying to take the fantasia out of the horse world. :icon_rolleyes: inkunicorn:


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## LULUSAYS (Apr 14, 2019)

Tell her that her riding will improve better by NOT having a horse. 

If she takes lessons and rides your horse or other horses she can experience different horses. She can do different things without worrying about over working the horse. 

Some people I know can only jump once a week and their progress is slow. 

Whereas if I helped out in a stable during the summer I could jump every day if i wanted to on different horses. I progressed way faster than people who owned their own horses who were usually limited to owning one horse and jumping it once or twice a week. 

There is no need for anyone to buy a horse.

Tell her riding on one horse only will hold her back. 

Although I have a feeling she is never going to be the greatest rider in the world.


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## CopperLove (Feb 14, 2019)

Hmm. As far as handling the face goes... you've already explained to her that the horses don't particularly like what she's doing so I'm not sure if this would work... but for me, it's a matter of trying to do the little things that will get my horse to "like" me the most. You can't let a horse push you around, there will always be a certain amount of discipline involved, but if something as simple as NOT hanging off your horse's face will make them more comfortable around you and "like" you just a little bit more, why not do that?

Being new to riding and owning I'm still pretty enamored with my mare. I do like to touch her face, I think she's the most beautiful thing in the world so I understand the feeling. But I try to limit it to calm, as-logical-as-possible interaction and gentle touches. For starters, she'd have bopped me in the face with her face if I tried to kiss around on her or grab on her head when she first came to us and nobody wants a black eye or broken nose related to scorned affections. When we got her she had a habit of raising her head up trying to get away from being bridled. So without trying to bridle her, I would lay my hand gently on her face or nose and remove it when she relaxed her head for me, just getting used to each other. She'll now lower her head to let me brush out her mane or when she wants scratches behind her ears.

Often I will gently touch her nose/mouth just so she knows that food or work is not involved every time I present my hand to her nose area. This is also a little bit for my own gratification because, let's be honest, who doesn't love a soft horse nose? But it also has roots in safety I think. My aunt's mare recently experienced choking and that was horrifying to watch. It almost looks like the animal is spitting up, as saliva that they can't swallow all comes back up through the mouth and nose. The advice we received until the vet could see her was to keep her nose and mouth cleared out as much as possible from the saliva/matter coming back up. She stood with my aunt and after every cough let her wipe her nose and look in her mouth. She knew that a human handling her head wasn't a bad thing, and I think she also understood that her human was trying to give her relief. (After seeing the vet she's OK thankfully.) A horse that is used to having to pull its head away from you because it's uncomfortable might not let you handle its head in a moment when it's really important to be able to do that.

Maybe you could point this out to the MIL: You want your horses to like/accept having you touch them, but the way you're going about it makes them want to jerk their head away from you. Wouldn't you like the horse to relax and feel safe with you? If an emergency happens and you need to be able to touch your horse's eyes/nose/mouth/ears, your horse might jerk away from you and you wouldn't be able to help it. Why don't you try it _this way_. Wouldn't it be _great_ for your horse to trust you? Wouldn't it be _so_ much nicer when your horse willingly touches you. (If you're still willing to give her advice at all with this new horse, a little bit of polite coercion might be required since she's not listening to reason any other way.)


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

I have taken horses in a headlock, but only after they say, "Stand still, Little Predator - my face itcheth!" Clearly, then they are in the mood for contact sport. Never had one lift me off my feet - they usually pull their head away...and try itching again. 

At first meeting, it's, "Here's my hand to sniff!" after which the horse usually wants to sniff my breath. There's a whole lot of contact-less interaction going on before I start rubbing on a horse. By that time, I know it'll be welcome.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

This is what it looks like when they're enjoying being touched. Then you can't go for a walk without ending up in this kind of formation:



It's when they discover what you can do with their itchy spots, that you seem to be followed about by a cloud of them! 

The insides of the ears are especially popular...



And it even works with camels you've only just met in an animal park:


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

My mare does very much enjoy a vigorous forehead rub, right along her star. When I first got her, she was incredibly aloof and internalized all her anxiety- a rub on the forehead was the only thing that seemed to get through to her. She'd visibly relax when being praised and "rewarded" that way. After some time together, I've found her itchy spots and other ways to praise her, and she's much more willing to connect. But for her, that forehead contact really worked.


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

Ratlady said:


> [MENTION=105474]I love Warwick Schiller! I actually have his entire video library downloaded to my desktop for referencing, and I've shared said library with my MIL. She thinks he's mean, but does admit that all of his horses are very well behaved.


LORDY! If she thinks Warwick is mean, she had better not ever EVER watch any Clinton Anderson. 

Warwick has changed his approach so much in the last year or two that she might like his new stuff. I laughed a bit at the beginning of the one older video here where he talked about how he doesn't just hang out with horses and feed them carrots to bond with them. Because that's kind of what he DOES do now. :lol: Or at least a big part of it.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

She thinks Warwick is mean?? Wow....she'd better steer clear of most of the rest!


I'm glad it sounds like she has a horse that may not kill her immediately, and I hope she gets some lessons for her sake and the mare


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

So.....how are things going with MIL and her horse???? We need updates!


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## Ratlady (Nov 13, 2018)

She brought her mare home. She's actually found a very nice farm to board at. Best of all, she's not boarding where I am! Still haven't been able to talk her into buying a helmet... But she did ask me to stop by and show her how to lunge a horse, so I linked her a video on how to lunge. Since she's not at my barn, I can claim to be too busy to stop over and train her horse myself. 

She's been watching training videos, (on YouTube... But it's something! There are great resources there) and seems to really resonate with Pat Parelli and bitless and barefoot ideologies. 
Personally I haven't seen all that many horses respond well to parelli training that weren't trained by parelli himself... But at least she's willing to learn, even if she's not willing to listen to me!

The important thing is that the horse hasn't killed her yet!

I did take a peek at the tack that came with the horse when she bought it and... Oh boy... I've given her a number to a saddle fitter. It's got to be some of the most atrociously fitting tack I've ever seen. I asked my horses old owner about selling my horses old custom tucker to my MIL, since her horse has a very similar build to mine. 

Problem is, being a custom tucker, she wants a good bit of money for it. As she should. But I also know full well my MIL doesn't want to cough up the cash for a well fitting saddle when she has, in her opinion, and perfectly good one already. The old owners used it, so it must be good, right?

The old owners also knew nothing about horses, got a cheap abetta off ebay and called it a day. The horse was never sore, but they only rode once every 3 months. 

I have a sneaking suspicion that if she's going to hit the ground, it's going to be directly because of saddle fit.


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## MissLulu (Feb 3, 2019)

Have you been able to talk MIL into taking lessons? I'm going to guess "no".


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

This is a good thing now, she might learn more and stick with it. Ask her if she likes hurting her horse because the saddle is doing that. Show her where it causes problems, how painful this is for the horse, perhaps borrow a good fitting saddle just for purpose of demonstrating a comfortable fit.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

@Ratlady I saw this "hat" in a magazine I get: 

https://www.sheplers.com/resistol-r...SK78eg4wIVwuDICh2RxADmEAQYAiABEgK_3_D_BwE:G:s

It's not cheap, not at all, but it doesn't look like a typical riding helmet. Do you think she might go for it?


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

ACinATX said:


> @Ratlady I saw this "hat" in a magazine I get:
> 
> https://www.sheplers.com/resistol-r...SK78eg4wIVwuDICh2RxADmEAQYAiABEgK_3_D_BwE:G:s
> 
> It's not cheap, not at all, but it doesn't look like a typical riding helmet. Do you think she might go for it?


I think that helmet looks funny and would be bulky to wear. I will stick with an English helmet any day of the week, lol!


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

I like the Da Brim visors for transforming the "look" of helmets, too.


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## CopperLove (Feb 14, 2019)

I understand what a hard sell a helmet is in some areas and disciplines... in my area I have only seen children wearing helmets.

People who do show, it tends to be western style and while I assume they have the option to wear a helmet, they choose not to. The only people I personally know who compete in breed-specific events show Rocky Mountains and are the same, I'm sure they could wear a helmet but the"stylish" thing is to wear a fedora or bowler type hat (not sure exactly what they're called) that matches their outfit. Everyone else (like myself) is interested in trail riding or just riding on their property and I've yet to meet a single adult that wears a helmet. My instructors don't and their children don't. But I do.

I was a little anxious the first time I pulled my new helmet out for a ride. When I first started learning I didn't use a helmet either but after reading and consideration I decided it was for the best. I know I am always going to look different than everyone else on a trail... but perhaps this could be a selling point to your MIL if she's worried about the way they look:

Psh, why would you be worried about what anyone else thinks? You're not someone who's going to be controlled by what someone else thinks you look like, right?

My instructors and their family, like the majority in our area, don't use helmets, they just said that's totally up to you and it's important that you're learning to make decisions for yourself. You are the owner and you always have to be able to make what you feel is the safest decision for you and yout horse. I'm not sure why they don't... I didn't press for further explanation.

I'm not exactly sure how to express this to your MIL since she seems to have made her decision, but there is every hope she could change her mind like I did. Her first uncertain moments up on her new horse could be enough to change her mind if she hasn't already invested in a helmet before then. Hopefully more people in your area DO ride in helmets, it will probably be easier to convince her if you know more riders and trainers who utilize them.

Another great Pro about wearing a helmet if she ever plans to trail ride is that the hard shell keeps tree branches from hanging in your hair :lol: I have already been grateful for that on more than one occasion.


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

CopperLove said:


> Another great Pro about wearing a helmet if she ever plans to trail ride is that the hard shell keeps tree branches from hanging in your hair :lol: I have already been grateful for that on more than one occasion.


This is VERY true! So many times on trail rides, I've been grateful for my helmet so that I could just tip my head down and smash through brush and low-hanging branches as if I were one of these.

https://youtu.be/6sKPzWGq6kk?t=38


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## Ratlady (Nov 13, 2018)

Well my MIL invited me over to her barn and I got the scoop from the barn owner.

Apparently this horse has kicked out, reared and tried to run my MIL and the BO over. All in a matter of a few days. My MIL has finally broke down and plans to ask the trainer at that barn what she charges for lessons. Luckily for her the BO seems to be quite the busy body who has no issues with giving advice and working my MIL's horse for her.

No, she still won't wear a helmet... 

I did hear from the BO that when lunging this horse, she seemed to really object to going around on the lunge line counterclockwise. She recommended my MIL get the vet involved before doing any more riding, and I wholeheartedly agree with her. 

Looks like this situation has been taken over by someone much more willing to do this battle. I still can't help but worry, but at least someone else has taken it upon themselves to educate her. My MIL seems to listen to the BO way more too!


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Well she has someone who is willing to help her, it's a start!


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Maybe the helmet issue will also be resolved by the BO who probably will demand one worn since the horse has a track record now at this barn.
MIL might not go buy, but what about you buying and making her a hellhat?
Some of the designs and ideas are just lovely...
_https://www.pinterest.com/normasaxon/hellhat/_
Easy enough to make... a olive branch to keep her safer?
:runninghorse2:...


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

It is better to let the BO handle this one. At least the family drama will not come in later in life - I am sure it is possible this horse has some lameness issues that were either undetected or undisclosed. I hope it works out. Lessons are a great way to learn what you do not know!


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Well, at least the barn owner is expressing concerns and your MIL is listening! It's a start!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Agreed that leaving this in the hands of the BO is the best possible plan going forward. This way you know there is someone else there to tell your MIL that she is in over her head and you can just stay right out of it until it's over. I'm afraid the only likely scenario here is that she will realize that this horse was cheap for a reason, and that unlike a puppy, it can't just be trained by a newbie to have better manners. It will either sit unused from that point, or she will sell a horse that she has made even worse. And if she does get hurt, you will have done all you could to prevent it. 

Whatever you do, resist the urge to swoop in and help as this disaster unfolds.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Ratlady said:


> Well my MIL invited me over to her barn and I got the scoop from the barn owner.
> 
> Apparently this horse has kicked out, reared and tried to run my MIL and the BO over. All in a matter of a few days. My MIL has finally broke down and plans to ask the trainer at that barn what she charges for lessons. Luckily for her the BO seems to be quite the busy body who has no issues with giving advice and working my MIL's horse for her.
> 
> ...


The disaster that you saw coming is here, and thankfully the BO is around to teach your MIL the realities of horse ownership. 

You can watch the drama unfold from a nice safe distance! 

I do hope it all works out for everyone


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

SteadyOn said:


> This is VERY true! So many times on trail rides, I've been grateful for my helmet so that I could just tip my head down and smash through brush and low-hanging branches as if I were one of these.


That's the beauty of English saddles: in a pinch, you can put your head below the horse's crest and body-surf your horse. :lol:


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

Ratlady said:


> Well my MIL invited me over to her barn and I got the scoop from the barn owner.
> 
> Apparently this horse has kicked out, reared and tried to run my MIL and the BO over.


A wild guess: This horse has not had good experiences with humans, and it ain't gonna get any better. Another wild guess: Try to show that horse "who the boss is," and it'll show you the lifetime coverage limit on your health insurance plan.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Now you can just sit back, grab some popcorn & watch how everything unfolds...it's honestly amusing at this point! :lol: Props to the BO for having the patience to even want to deal with your MIL!


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## whisperbaby22 (Jan 25, 2013)

On a western saddle you can grab the horn and go under low trees.


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