# BAD day need information on property rights



## chubbypony

I dont know where to start, Ive been at work from 11 to 9 and come home to Chaos. Im sorry if some of this doesnt make sense I am very upset and shacking. 

A little background on our barn. We rent a 7 stall 2 run in barn and have 7 horses 2 ponies on 13 acre. All are chubby and healthy I keep all vet records and have plenty of hay. Most are rescues and are only ridden lightly. 
There is a house on the property that is rented by someone else. I can take videos to prove all of this of course  

SO the SPCA apparently got a phone call and some photos of our horses out side in the rain from yesterday. All my horses have blankets on and we have a huge run in on the barn and a small run in plus seven stalls. The front field looks gross of course since it has been raining and they run around a lot. That field only has trees and no run in but they go inside at night. 
Apparently the SPCA just came on the property and started looking around. The guy who rents the house came out to talk to her and she said she needed to speak to the owners and was he gave her our number. 
The older woman living in the house (bless her soul I wish she was my grammy ) called us up right away upset and told us what happened, she is home all the time and said the day before there was a black SUV taking pictures of the horses. So now I dont know what to do. Was the SPCA aloud to just go on the property without the owner consent and look around? I wont know until Friday apparently what they want but im so upset about the whole thing. What should I do I feel like im getting so defense but I cant help it these are my pride and joy.  

Where do I stand or what should I do? Has anyone ever dealt with this before.


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## chubbypony

I live in Pennsylvania I dont know if that matters


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## waresbear

Someone is concerned for your horses, SPCA will check it out and tell them nothing is wrong. If nothing is wrong, you have nothing to worry about. I don't know the laws regarding the SPCA's authority in your area, but I doubt they would overstep their bounds, they know the laws. Best to let them see everything & show them the horses are fine and they can report back to people who were concerned.


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## chubbypony

waresbear said:


> Someone is concerned for your horses, SPCA will check it out and tell them nothing is wrong. If nothing is wrong, you have nothing to worry about. I don't know the laws regarding the SPCA's authority in your area, but I doubt they would overstep their bounds, they know the laws. Best to let them see everything & show them the horses are fine and they can report back to people who were concerned.


Yes, and I have no problem with that but you can not just report healthy looking horses because they are out in the rain. right? 

I have no problem with showing the SPCA what our guys look like and everything.


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## waresbear

You can report for whatever you like I suppose, the SPCA is just following up a report of abuse.


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## Phly

People can report what ever they like. SPCA coming out and taking pics may be the last you hear of them. They just need to document that they were there, and as it sounds, everything was Okee dokee. If horses in the rain is illegal, I'm a felon!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chubbypony

waresbear said:


> You can report for whatever you like I suppose, the SPCA is just following up a report of abuse.


Okay gotcha I dont know this SPCA in particular. The one I know/been to, they need more proof, well at least thats what she told me.


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## Delfina

You can report "several horses wearing blindfolds" to the SPCA... 

All that happens is they come out, see that they are healthy, cared for (and wearing FLY MASKS in my case) and close the complaint.


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## themacpack

chubbypony said:


> Okay gotcha I dont know this SPCA in particular. The one I know/been to, they need more proof, well at least thats what she told me.


The point of a site visit/investigation/welfare check IS to get proof (or to show the lack of proof) of any reported concerns. The report does not require proof.


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## chubbypony

Phly said:


> People can report what ever they like. SPCA coming out and taking pics may be the last you hear of them. They just need to document that they were there, and as it sounds, everything was Okee dokee. If horses in the rain is illegal, I'm a felon!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LOL yeh right they are on a semi busy street. My mom said the person most likely knows nothing about horses seeing as they are happier out side then stuck in their stall.


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## chubbypony

themacpack said:


> The point of a site visit/investigation/welfare check IS to get proof (or to show the lack of proof) of any reported concerns. The report does not require proof.


SO does anything get done to the person who complained, I dont want them stalking us or anything.


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## chubbypony

Delfina said:


> You can report "several horses wearing blindfolds" to the SPCA...
> 
> All that happens is they come out, see that they are healthy, cared for (and wearing FLY MASKS in my case) and close the complaint.


what seriously blind folds oh god Ive heard it all now


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## usandpets

Phly said:


> People can report what ever they like. SPCA coming out and taking pics may be the last you hear of them. They just need to document that they were there, and as it sounds, everything was Okee dokee. If horses in the rain is illegal, I'm a felon!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm right with you having horses out in the elements. We are such bad owners!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## usandpets

chubbypony said:


> SO does anything get done to the person who complained, I dont want them stalking us or anything.


I would guess that most complaints are done anonymously. Unless they can prove someone is making unwarranted claims and making false reports, not much can be done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chubbypony

usandpets said:


> I would guess that most complaints are done anonymously. Unless they can prove someone is making unwarranted claims and making false reports, not much can be done.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


okay thanks I feel a bit better im still a bit freaked out someone was creepin on us like that.


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## RockyTrails

chubbypony said:


> I dont know where to start, Ive been at work from 11 to 9 and come home to Chaos. Im sorry if some of this doesnt make sense I am very upset and shacking.
> 
> A little background on our barn. We rent a 7 stall 2 run in barn and have 7 horses 2 ponies on 13 acre. All are chubby and healthy I keep all vet records and have plenty of hay. Most are rescues and are only ridden lightly.
> There is a house on the property that is rented by someone else. I can take videos to prove all of this of course
> 
> SO the SPCA apparently got a phone call and some photos of our horses out side in the rain from yesterday. All my horses have blankets on and we have a huge run in on the barn and a small run in plus seven stalls. The front field looks gross of course since it has been raining and they run around a lot. That field only has trees and no run in but they go inside at night.
> Apparently the SPCA just came on the property and started looking around. The guy who rents the house came out to talk to her and she said she needed to speak to the owners and was he gave her our number.
> The older woman living in the house (bless her soul I wish she was my grammy ) called us up right away upset and told us what happened, she is home all the time and said the day before there was a black SUV taking pictures of the horses. So now I dont know what to do. Was the SPCA aloud to just go on the property without the owner consent and look around? I wont know until Friday apparently what they want but im so upset about the whole thing. What should I do I feel like im getting so defense but I cant help it these are my pride and joy.
> 
> Where do I stand or what should I do? Has anyone ever dealt with this before.



I doubt they can legally come onto your property without a search warrant. And reasonable suspicion is only allowed for police not animal control.
My horses are outside in the weather almost constantly in snow temps to and below 0 even tho barn door is open with their stalls wide open. I gave up putting blankets on them because they shred them,
It is hopefully nothing serious.
They took pictures and verified horses were fine and that will no doubt be last of it. Nothing wrong with horses in the weather.


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## chubbypony

RockyTrails said:


> I doubt they can legally come onto your property without a search warrant. And reasonable suspicion is only allowed for police not animal control.
> My horses are outside in the weather almost constantly in snow temps to and below 0. I gave up putting blankets on them because they shred them,
> It is hopefully nothing serious.
> They need to do their jobs and crack down on the people who have bags of bones hobbling around on their property and leave people who take care of their horses alone.


I couldnt agree more. Ive tried searching for info on legally if she was aloud on the property considering its private. I have no problem getting checked up on but I would have liked to be there seeing as she could have been bit or kicked.


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## RockyTrails

chubbypony said:


> I couldnt agree more. Ive tried searching for info on legally if she was aloud on the property considering its private. I have no problem getting checked up on but I would have liked to be there seeing as she could have been bit or kicked.



That is very true. Course that is their own risk since they are technically trespassing going in with animals without search warrant, It is one thing to take pictures but to enter barn or pasture they need your consent or a warrant.


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## Iseul

Wow..sounds like what happened to us last year when I was at my previous barn. Except, AC and RSPCA have no right to come onto private property without permission from the owners from what I've been told.

I'd get that looked up and see if you can charge for trespassing (I don't care what they're job is, my property is my property).

Are you by chance in western pa? I wouldn't put it past a few boarders I know that would call on something so stupid because they genuinely feel that they should be the only owners (with the disrespectful and dangerous horses nonetheless, lol).
A boarder called AC on my BO because there was a FILM of ice over the trough last winter...I really can't believe people some times.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chubbypony

Iseul said:


> Wow..sounds like what happened to us last year when I was at my previous barn. Except, AC and RSPCA have no right to come onto private property without permission from the owners from what I've been told.
> 
> I'd get that looked up and see if you can charge for trespassing (I don't care what they're job is, my property is my property).
> 
> Are you by chance in western pa? I wouldn't put it past a few boarders I know that would call on something so stupid because they genuinely feel that they should be the only owners (with the disrespectful and dangerous horses nonetheless, lol).
> A boarder called AC on my BO because there was a FILM of ice over the trough last winter...I really can't believe people some times.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Im in Eastern PA. I dont want to get the SPCA in trouble but I dont want the person who reported it to stalk us or do some thing crazy seeing as she reported us for having horses out in the rain.  You know how the rain has been in PA.


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## Chevaux

One of my neighbours got a visit from the SPCA one time because someone had said his six horses were stuck in the mud (of course they weren't they were in a slough checking it out and playing around - quite a common occurrence for them). My neighbour said he was a bit surprised when the officer showed up but he showed him the horses (who were up at the barn by this time) and that was the end of it.

My initial thought when I read through your post, chubbypony, was that the absolute most that might be questioned is if the blankets looked soaked and thus might make the horses cold. If that was the case, that would be pretty minor and would probably work itself out with just a discussion between you and the SPCA officer. At any rate, try not too worry.


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## Phly

I've had animal control to my hose 6 times. A Nieghbor (who was losing his house, and has lost it now) called on my dogs constantly, last time they came out they said they were marking it as harrasment and wouldn't be coming out to any more of his calls.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chubbypony

Phly said:


> I've had animal control to my hose 6 times. A Nieghbor (who was losing his house, and has lost it now) called on my dogs constantly, last time they came out they said they were marking it as harrasment and wouldn't be coming out to any more of his calls.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


See im afraid of it turning in to that.  I dont know the person who reported it but I hope they stop once they get a call back from the spca.


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## Iseul

I don't believe they call back unless whoever reported it calls again.

Also..I'd be inclined to slap a No Trespassing sign on my driveway and the barn/pasture.

Did you get to see the pictures they took? I'd be wanting to know if the person who reported you was on your property or not, as I'm sure that's your main concern.

Also, Phly, it's always good to hear about how ignorant/rude people are, so I'm curious as to what they reported you for with your dogs, if you're willing to say. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Phly

I took it as a big screw him! Every time they were out, I was all good and he looked like a fool. And as I said, they seen the pattern and ain't been back since. But it is annoying to have it hung over your head till then.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Phly

Iseul said:


> I don't believe they call back unless whoever reported it calls again.
> 
> Also..I'd be inclined to slap a No Trespassing sign on my driveway and the barn/pasture.
> 
> Did you get to see the pictures they took? I'd be wanting to know if the person who reported you was on your property or not, as I'm sure that's your main concern.
> 
> Also, Phly, it's always good to hear about how ignorant/rude people are, so I'm curious as to what they reported you for with your dogs, if you're willing to say.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Loose running the streets, no tags or shots, vicious, etc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chubbypony

As for them being in the rain, I find that pretty ridiculous to report that I could just take the coats off and they can stand in the rain from 9 to 7 naked. You know what I mean, they have tree coverage. I feel like this is the only thing this person could think to get us for. I drive by a cow farm every day that has NO shelter but the barn when they get milked, is it fair for them to stand in the rain? I feel like some people need reality check. We rescued a horse who was skinny enough not to make it through winter yet no one reported it....


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## chubbypony

Iseul said:


> I don't believe they call back unless whoever reported it calls again.
> 
> Also..I'd be inclined to slap a No Trespassing sign on my driveway and the barn/pasture.
> 
> Did you get to see the pictures they took? I'd be wanting to know if the person who reported you was on your property or not, as I'm sure that's your main concern.
> 
> Also, Phly, it's always good to hear about how ignorant/rude people are, so I'm curious as to what they reported you for with your dogs, if you're willing to say.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I havent spoke to anyone yet. My mom waited until I got home to tell me. My sisters step son got kicked in the head by his horse today so my mom was in the ER when it all happened. Talk about a bad day. :-(


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## RockyTrails

I hope your sisters stepson is okay.


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## AlexS

If I were you, I'd call the SPCA and talk to them about it, if nothing else it should set your mind at ease.


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## franknbeans

^^ Exactly. Call them and talk to them. If your horses are taken care of I wouldn't be so concerned. Noone can help that there are crazy folks all around who call authorities over nothing....they DO eventually get a "crying wolf" reputation, and the authorities pay them little attention.

We had the health department called once because of the "odor" of out barn......the cow farmer up the road had just spread manure...and the suburbanites thought it was our horses, so they called. They came, looked around, decided that our barn was cleaner than most houses, and left. ;-)


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## SouthernTrails

.

Was it County Animal Control that came out or was it SPCA?

SPCA is a Private Organization and has Zero authority to come onto Private Property without the owners permission.

If it was the County Animal Control, most likely they can come onto the property without permission, at least in GA it is that way.

.


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## chubbypony

AlexS said:


> If I were you, I'd call the SPCA and talk to them about it, if nothing else it should set your mind at ease.


my moms calling today and hopfully that will be the end of it.


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## egrogan

I know nothing of the laws on this, but could you just call them and ask why they were there? 

ETA: Sorry, I didn't make it to the last page before posting, will be interested to hear what they say when your mom calls.


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## bsms

FWIW...one of my neighbors reported that our dog "Dan" was starved, beaten, injured and in need of immediate vet care. The lady from animal control left her office at 6AM hoping to catch us unprepared. She found a dog who had bacon bits on his food, because he refused to eat without toppings. She ended up making a notice on the complaint that the dog was in "outstanding" health...said if the complaint hadn't been anonymous, we'd have ground for suing someone.

I suspect the caller was the same neighbor who filed so many bogus zoning complaints against us that the county put her on a "do not respond" list. Some people are just vicious.:evil:

Dan the badly abused dog:


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## jaydee

Agree - call whoever it was that came out and discuss it with them
A lot of non horsey people have no clue about how horses live. If one of mine lies down in sight of the road for any length of time I can bet I'll have someone calling to tell me I have dead horse. 
The only problem I can possibly think of is what are your zoning laws there? I know its something thats rarely checked up on but someone being spiteful might do it if the field looks muddy they might push that you have more horses per acre than your zoning rule allows.


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## Speed Racer

If AC (_not_ the SPCA) didn't leave you any notices about your animals or property, you're in the clear. 

County ACs can and do come onto properties without warrants, but if you want to be an *** and demand one, they'll get one. 

Why is it that people are always screaming 'call AC!!!!' when someone notices something they don't like, but when the shoe is on the other foot they get indignant? AC isn't out to get you, and if your animals are in good health and obviously cared for properly, they're going to close the case and go on about their business.

Sure, some folks call out of spite, but others may be doing it out of genuine concern, although rather ignorant of how livestock are treated. Wouldn't you rather have AC investigate and find nothing wrong, than them ignore a real problem?


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## sillyhorses

Animal control would have to notify you if they were going to take action against you. It is their responsibility to check out any claims - I wouldn't worry too much unless they personally contact you. It helps when the local animal control has any horse experience... if they saw that your horses had access to shelter and fresh water, and were not starved, I'm sure they just went about their business and don't plan on coming back. People who know nothing about horses don't understand that often, if given the choice (as in, they have a run-in shelter, etc), horses will choose to stand in rain and muck... good luck!


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## themacpack

Speed Racer said:


> If AC (_not_ the SPCA) didn't leave you any notices about your animals or property, you're in the clear.
> 
> County ACs can and do come onto properties without warrants, but if you want to be an *** and demand one, they'll get one.
> 
> *Why is it that people are always screaming 'call AC!!!!' when someone notices something they don't like, but when the shoe is on the other foot they get indignant?* AC isn't out to get you, and if your animals are in good health and obviously cared for properly, they're going to close the case and go on about their business.
> 
> Sure, some folks call out of spite, but others may be doing it out of genuine concern, although rather ignorant of how livestock are treated. Wouldn't you rather have AC investigate and find nothing wrong, than them ignore a real problem?


Funny how that works, eh?


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## loveduffy

me and my friends at a do it yourself barn had the SPCA come out because people driving by thought we had hoods on the horses head ( fly masks) and they could not see -when I ride with a quiet ride fly mask people ask me why do I have the my horse's eyes covered some people do not know and other have nothing to do all day -If all is good with your horse them show them how proud you are to show them the care you give your horses


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## chubbypony

jaydee said:


> Agree - call whoever it was that came out and discuss it with them
> A lot of non horsey people have no clue about how horses live. If one of mine lies down in sight of the road for any length of time I can bet I'll have someone calling to tell me I have dead horse.
> The only problem I can possibly think of is what are your zoning laws there? I know its something thats rarely checked up on but someone being spiteful might do it if the field looks muddy they might push that you have more horses per acre than your zoning rule allows.


The zoning laws here are an acre per horse and the property we are on is grandfathered so its after 10 ac we could have more but we keep it down to usually seven, right now we have more but it doesnt really matter since we have over what we need.  

We are going to get the call tomorrow, it was the SPCA and I do not think she had any authority to be around the horses. We are not going to make a big deal out of it but we putting up more signs of private property.


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## chubbypony

RockyTrails said:


> I hope your sisters stepson is okay.


aww thanks yeh he received staples and should be fine  he said his modeling days are over. lol


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## gogaited

waresbear said:


> Someone is concerned for your horses, SPCA will check it out and tell them nothing is wrong. If nothing is wrong, you have nothing to worry about. I don't know the laws regarding the SPCA's authority in your area, but I doubt they would overstep their bounds, they know the laws. Best to let them see everything & show them the horses are fine and they can report back to people who were concerned.


Your naive belief in government agencies doing the right thing is cute.


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## chubbypony

We were told she checked up because they were worried horses were out in the rain. To me that is no reason to go look at some horses out in normal weather for PA right now. Never said one thing about being under weight not having food or in any danger , I feel like the whole thing is so darn fishy especially since the SPCA as im finding out has no legal reasons to do it if they are privately owned. Hoping this all end tomorrow


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## Mochachino

Checking for horses in the rain???!!!! What the? Up here we can barely get them to go check on starving horses that are completely neglected, and they come to your place to check on horses in the rain??!! That is nuts. wow


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## chubbypony

Mochachino said:


> Checking for horses in the rain???!!!! What the? Up here we can barely get them to go check on starving horses that are completely neglected, and they come to your place to check on horses in the rain??!! That is nuts. wow


Yeh right and from what I read she had no authority to set a foot on the property. 

What specific authority does the SPCA have

I found this web site is it true? 

We are calling the SPCA again tomorrow morning, I dont know what im going to say I should probably write it down so it comes out right.


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## Tazmanian Devil

chubbypony said:


> Yeh right and from what I read she had no authority to set a foot on the property.
> 
> What specific authority does the SPCA have
> 
> I found this web site is it true?
> 
> We are calling the SPCA again tomorrow morning, I dont know what im going to say I should probably write it down so it comes out right.



I'm wondering why you feel the need to call them. Let it go.

Sure, people can and will call to report things. Even when they know nothing about the subject. That's life. 

Until the SPCA or other authority comes to you with a specific accusation, why are you concerned? Let it go until they contact you with a specific concern or question. Until then, everything you are going on is heresay. Sure the old lady told you "yada yada yada" but how accurate is that?

No one has accused you of anything until someone actually accuses you of something.

In any legal matter, or one that has the potential to become legal, there is one rule of thumb... SHUT YOUR MOUTH. ANYTHING you say can -and will - be held against you.

They way I am reading this thread, you are rushing to call the SPCA to tell them what you aren't doing wrong. You don't even know for sure what someone called to report.

From what I have seen, things have to be pretty far out of hand for the SPCA (or other animal organization) to actually take action. If your horses are even half as well cared for as you claim, there is nothing at all to worry about.

I don't think it matters who has the right to trespass on your property or not. In practice, I don't see the SPCA or even an official organization doing so. Any complaint that was made was done so from the road. That means the violation should be plainly visible from the road. If someone wants to examine your horses or their living conditions from inside your property, they are going to knock on the door first. That's just smart. Jumping the fence and sneaking into a barn to look at a horse up close is a good way to get shot as a trespasser in some parts. If they were that desperate to do so without giving you advance warning, they would get a warrant and serve you before doing the search. You would see cop cars lit up... they don't do the "stealth" thing in situations like this.

You see someone on your property who doesn't belong - call 911 to report them. AC, SPCA or whatever - they are halfwits if they are sneaking around on private property. Especially in an enclosure with horses they do not know.

Best thing is to chill out and be quiet. Wait until there is a specific accusation before you answer anything. Until there is an actual notification (usually in writing) by a legitimate organization, you have not been accused of anything.


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## Tazmanian Devil

One other thing...

In some places (New York at least) duly organized SPCA organizations (which are private non-profit corporations) do have "Peace Officer" status. That means they wear uniforms, carry guns and have arrest powers. Your state or county may or may not have an SPCA with that status.

Still, they will usually require a warrant to enter your property. And unless there is a compelling reason to down unannounced "raid," they will knock on your door first.

If they do not have peace officer status or arrest privileges in your area, their powers are considerably more restricted.


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## chubbypony

Tazmanian Devil said:


> I'm wondering why you feel the need to call them. Let it go.
> 
> Sure, people can and will call to report things. Even when they know nothing about the subject. That's life.
> 
> Until the SPCA or other authority comes to you with a specific accusation, why are you concerned? Let it go until they contact you with a specific concern or question. Until then, everything you are going on is heresay. Sure the old lady told you "yada yada yada" but how accurate is that?
> 
> No one has accused you of anything until someone actually accuses you of something.
> 
> In any legal matter, or one that has the potential to become legal, there is one rule of thumb... SHUT YOUR MOUTH. ANYTHING you say can -and will - be held against you.
> 
> They way I am reading this thread, you are rushing to call the SPCA to tell them what you aren't doing wrong. You don't even know for sure what someone called to report.
> 
> From what I have seen, things have to be pretty far out of hand for the SPCA (or other animal organization) to actually take action. If your horses are even half as well cared for as you claim, there is nothing at all to worry about.
> 
> I don't think it matters who has the right to trespass on your property or not. In practice, I don't see the SPCA or even an official organization doing so. Any complaint that was made was done so from the road. That means the violation should be plainly visible from the road. If someone wants to examine your horses or their living conditions from inside your property, they are going to knock on the door first. That's just smart. Jumping the fence and sneaking into a barn to look at a horse up close is a good way to get shot as a trespasser in some parts. If they were that desperate to do so without giving you advance warning, they would get a warrant and serve you before doing the search. You would see cop cars lit up... they don't do the "stealth" thing in situations like this.
> 
> You see someone on your property who doesn't belong - call 911 to report them. AC, SPCA or whatever - they are halfwits if they are sneaking around on private property. Especially in an enclosure with horses they do not know.
> 
> Best thing is to chill out and be quiet. Wait until there is a specific accusation before you answer anything. Until there is an actual notification (usually in writing) by a legitimate organization, you have not been accused of anything.


First off we knew she was there because someone complained that we had horses out in the rain. She told the guy who rents the house that. 

Also she told us we NEEDED to call her. We didnt want to not call then have her show up again or something. 

She went on the property and looked around she told my mom today that she didnt go in the barn but that she has the authority to look around the property. 

I was very nervous, I admit Ive never had this happen to us before and the woman was harsh to us LIKE WE were doing something wrong.


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## chubbypony

We got in contact with the SPCA today and my mom had a short conversation with the woman from the shelter. She said someone noticed your horses were out in the cold rain and called us to check in and make sure they were being cared for.... 

My mom kept it short because it was almost like the woman was digging. Its pretty much all except she made a little remark at the end like as if she needs to make us a visit again... 

So much stress over what well thanks everyone now im more informed on this. 
My main concern is not showing her around its that some person I dont know if wondering around my horses, I would blame my self if anyone every was injured because of one of them... 

Thanks again 
Happy trails


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## Saddlebag

If a horse was down then yes the SPCA can enter the property. Otherwise, at least in Ontario, they have to have a search warrant. Check your state laws. An ex-boarder called them, not on me but on the other boarder. She wanted him to move his horse to where she'd moved hers. The complaint was that the horse had no salt and no hay. They had seen this when going down the main road on snowmachines. That was the best part because a hill makes the yard private. The lady came and we chatted then wandered over to the horses. I said "oh, btw, that's the poor horse (rather tubby) with no hay and there were two round bales in her pasture. I showed the lady the big salt lick and one could tell it had been there a while. A big waste of her time. The lad liked it with me and stayed. It didn't take a pile of brains to figure out who had placed the call.


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## AlexS

chubbypony said:


> We got in contact with the SPCA today and my mom had a short conversation with the woman from the shelter. She said someone noticed your horses were out in the cold rain and called us to check in and make sure they were being cared for....
> 
> My mom kept it short because it was almost like the woman was digging. Its pretty much all except she made a little remark at the end like as if she needs to make us a visit again...
> 
> So much stress over what well thanks everyone now im more informed on this.
> My main concern is not showing her around its that some person I dont know if wondering around my horses, I would blame my self if anyone every was injured because of one of them...
> 
> Thanks again
> Happy trails



If I were your Mom, I would have scheduled a time for her to come out so I could show her around. And I would have all vets bills, feed receipts, farrier bills etc there at that meeting.


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## bsms

You might want to read here:

State Humane Societies and Enforcement Powers

Detailed Discussion of Humane Societies and Enforcement Powers

Chapter 37. Humane Society Police Officers

"The law enforcement approach grants all police powers to the humane society agent. Occasionally, states will even deputize these agents when granting police powers. Police powers granted to humane society agents include seizing animals, investigating animal abuse, executing search warrants, issuing citations, and arresting offenders. States may also allow the agent to carry a firearm in executing law enforcement duties. Many states that use this approach maintain detailed regulatory systems to monitor and train agents. *For instance, Pennsylvania devotes a whole chapter of their Code to humane society agents with regulations ranging from appointment, qualifications, training, and powers.* Likewise, California’s regulatory regime is complex enough to designate two levels of humane society agents." :shock: :shock: :shock:

In the USA, state laws vary enormously. It is important to look for what YOUR state allows. What someone else's state allows can be 180 out...


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## chubbypony

AlexS said:


> If I were your Mom, I would have scheduled a time for her to come out so I could show her around. And I would have all vets bills, feed receipts, farrier bills etc there at that meeting.


Yeh, I think my mom was in more of a shock with how the woman was questioning us. I did pull all our vet records made copies along with feed, hay, farrier, vet, chiro, and stable rent bills. I figured no matter what it would be good to have a copy of it all anyways. 

I also spoke to a co worker today, they did the same thing to her except it was in the summer and they thought her horses should be inside. :?


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## stevenson

yeah, I got reported for blindfolding my horses too! oh and not cleaning pens, the officer that came out laughed and said your pens are cleaner than mine!
wrote down as nuisance neighbor complaint.


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## Saddlebag

Make them get a search warrant. If you weren't issued an order to comply then they have no reason to follow up. An order to comply could be small things that were overlooked. And they have to give you a reasonable amount of time to comply.


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## Dustbunny

IMHO my advice would be to know your rights, have all info re:care, vet bills, feed, etc. at hand and be willing to show the horses if requested. But I would not contact this agency any more than you must. Don't do anything to irritate a gov't weenie with a bit of power. It could be like kicking a sleeping dragon in the backside. It might feel good at the time but you may not be happy with the results. Hopefully this will all blow over.
Horses in the rain? Honestly! If that were a crime God would be in jail.


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## Tazmanian Devil

First, I hope you didn't read this as I was attacking you. Just trying to help. I was in a situation some years ago where I was falsely accused of something by someone trying to "get" me and learned a lot from that experience.



chubbypony said:


> First off we knew she was there because someone complained that we had horses out in the rain. She told the guy who rents the house that.


Exactly my point. According to what you wrote, you were never given any "official" notification. The "guy" could have the story completely wrong. If the "complaint" was that serious, you would receive a call, visit - or more likely - something in writing on official letterhead. 



> Also she told us we NEEDED to call her. We didnt want to not call then have her show up again or something.


Perhaps I misunderstood. Did someone in an official capacity, showing legitimate identification actually speak with _you_ and notify you of a specific complaint? If not, you have no obligation to call anyone. Hearing it from "the guy who rents a house" is not the same thing.

Again, if the complaint and investigating agency was legitimate they will notify you in a proper manner. There are procedures they are required to follow, and telling a third party to notify you is not one of them.



> She went on the property and looked around she told my mom today that she didnt go in the barn but that she has the authority to look around the property.


Just because they tell you that doesn't make it true (neither does it make it a lie). If your mom spoke to this person, what exactly was the complaint? Before you do anything else, you need to find out exactly what the "problem" is.

Are you being accused of leaving horses out in the rain? If so, ask the person if there is a law against that (I guarantee there is not). I believe you mentioned the horses had available shelter. If you get flack about leaving the horses out in the "elements" you could simply point out that there is adequate shelter available.

You can also note that all of this is plainly visible from the road. There is no reason for anyone to enter your property without permission or your knowledge to see if horses are outside in a field and/or have access to shelter. Again, the person making the complaint theoretically did so from the road. Thus, verification of this claim can also be made from the road. If they feel your horses are being "abused," it is easy enough to knock on the door and ask to see them. Climbing fences, opening gates or entering barns unannounced can be highly dangerous for your horses or the person doing so. I would remind them that your horses do kick. You should probably call the police and tell them about the SPCA people entering your property without notice or permission. This will cover you in the event that they do get hurt and want to sue.

I am sure SPCA has the right to enter a property - under specific conditions. Not anytime they feel like it. Look at it this way... someone drives by your house and calls the police because "you are running a meth lab" in your garage. The cops cannot drive down and break into your garage based on a random report. They need a _credible_ info source and 99 time out of 100 a warrant. Without that, they may come by and ask some questions. Usually it is the answers to those questions that help them obtain a warrant (regardless of innocence).



> I was very nervous, I admit Ive never had this happen to us before and the woman was harsh to us LIKE WE were doing something wrong.


Therein lies the rub. There are two likely scenarios. The first is that you are dealing with some good, responsible SPCA people. They know their job and don't needlessly harass honest folk who are taking care of their animals. They drive by, see the complaint has no merit and move on to other things.

Looks like you are dealing with the other scenario... someone with a chip on their shoulder who likes to be a pain in the butt. The more you say to someone like this, the more ammo you give them. They will keep asking questions and your "innocent" answers will easily be twisted by them.

If someone drove by my place - in any weather - they could easily see from the road that my horses are healthy and well fed (too well fed at the moment). They could also see the barn which is in obviously good repair.

There are plenty of non-horse people who have no clue and would make an innocent complaint (such as the fly mask situation mentioned in another post). This happens all the time.

However, if an Animal Control or SPCA person feels the need to start hassling me or sneaking around my property, there is definitely more to the situation than meets the eye. That's when it is time to ask questions (what exactly am I being accused of? Who accused me? May I please get a copy of that in writing so I can properly respond?). 

From what you have written, there is no legitimate complaint (horses out in rain). If they are making a bigger thing out of it, get the complaint in writing and simply have your vet respond that that horses are in good condition and well cared for.


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## VelvetsAB

_Wouldn't AC or SPCA have work vehicles, with clear markings on them, and not drive a big black SUV?_

_If they drive marked vehicles, then this visit was a hoax, and someone was pretending to be an SPCA 'agent' to get a better look at the barn/horses for their own purposes._


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## Tazmanian Devil

VelvetsAB said:


> _Wouldn't AC or SPCA have work vehicles, with clear markings on them, and not drive a big black SUV?_
> 
> _If they drive marked vehicles, then this visit was a hoax, and someone was pretending to be an SPCA 'agent' to get a better look at the barn/horses for their own purposes._


My previous post was already long so I didn't want to get into this, which is another important consideration. Unless the "inspectors" clearly identify themselves and show proper ID, you have no way of know if they are really who they say they are. You have the right and obligation to evaluate the legitimacy of all of this.

Ever call your credit card company with a question? They ask for a hundred details to prove you are really you. My credit card company called me a few months ago for me to verify a charge... they started by asking for my SS number. I explained that they called me and I have no way of knowing they are who they claim to be. I gave no information and told them I would call back using the number printed on the card itself.

It may sound paranoid, but I have been the (unsuccessful) target of identity theft more than one and had my credit card numbers stolen a few times. There are plenty of unsavory people out there and you cannot be too careful.

I could buy a badge, print a phony ID and show up at your barn with a horse trailer - "I'm from the SPCA and here is the paperwork showing I must take your horse into custody." All based on a "complaint" that my partner in crime made. Better yet, I could let you keep your horse and let the complaint disappear for a mere $50 or $100 "donation." Too easy to get away with.


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## AnrewPL

OOOOOOO horses in the rain, how o how did they survive millions of years of evolution, and then thousands of years of domestication, without a stall and a blanket. Some people are just morons.


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## Palomine

Go take pictures of your horses, the pasture and the barn/run in ASAP, like tomorrow, with newspaper in front of some of the pictures to show what day it is being taken.

Too many people think now that horses all have to be blanketed and stalled, as opposed to the ones that think they should never be blanketed and stalled.

It could also have been that one of your horses had been down for whatever reason and appeared to be caught in fence too?? Or something like that.

And may also have been report of horses further down the road or in area as I have heard of AC going to wrong address, so they didn't have to deal with what was going on with the real horses starving to death, and do mean that literally too.


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