# Default Cranky Mare



## BreezylBeezyl (Mar 25, 2014)

I need some wisdom regarding the mare that I own, who just seems to be generally cranky *all the time*. I used to just accept that this seemed to be her personality and brush it off, but it's getting on my nerves.

I'll start by saying she is famous for her mare face and is a tried and true ear pinner at everything and everyone. People, horses, dogs, a hay bale, you name it. She will find a reason to hate everything she sees.

She is very bossy in her herd (but isn't the leader) and is not a horse I would call people friendly. Of course she is safe, though, because she genuinely knows better. Ear pinning is honest to God the most of your worries with this horse and she has a lot of bark and no bite. My instructor and fellow students always make jokes about how 'fun' and 'happy' she is to be around and I've always been told this is probably just her personality and that she has a pretty big personal bubble, but I personally think it seems pretty disrespectful and so it bothers me.

In general, she just doesn't like being touched. Her chest seems to be the place she hates the most. Get to into her personal space and she makes it known she is simply 'tolerating' you. Needless to say, grooming is not her favourite time of the day. If she is standing tied, she pins her ears and puts her nose at anyone who passes her, no matter who it is. She has always been like this.

Strangely enough, as soon as we get to work this behavior stops. I can tack her, lunge her, lead her, and ride her without ever once seeing her get cranky. During and after a work out she is attentive, responsive, and intelligent. Take her away from the arena and she becomes a grouch again. *I guess I would have to say that I mostly see this attitude when she is being tied.* But not every time I come see her and tie her we work. Sometimes it's just grooming and feeding and just hanging about.

I guess I am feeling stuck because I don't exactly know how to deal with this type of situation. How does one reprimand a horse for ear pinning? How do I let her know this is rude? She isn't dangerous and this has never escalated, but she isn't exactly a ray of sunshine to be around. It's starting to seriously bum me out.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Have you had her hormone levels checked? Is it possible she has ovarian cysts? They are fairly common in mares. Also look into somethimg like raspberry leaves or omega alpha premare. Something to chill out the mare tude.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I'd just leave it if that's all she does. Let her have her personality.

There is nothing rude about that.


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## BreezylBeezyl (Mar 25, 2014)

NBEventer said:


> Have you had her hormone levels checked? Is it possible she has ovarian cysts? They are fairly common in mares. Also look into somethimg like raspberry leaves or omega alpha premare. Something to chill out the mare tude.


I've never thought to have it done, mostly because I assumed this was a behavioral issue... If it was a pain issue, would she not be cranky during work outs?

Not saying it couldn't be her hormones, just trying to make sense of this all.


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## BreezylBeezyl (Mar 25, 2014)

Yogiwick said:


> I'd just leave it if that's all she does. Let her have her personality.
> 
> There is nothing rude about that.


I guess I am just worried. I'd hate for this to be a handling issue of some kind, me giving her too much leniency and what have you. My 11 year old sister handlers her and, while this has NEVER escalated, I would never want to put her at risk in case it did.

I do get it if this is genuinely a personality thing because this is what I have passed it off as for months, but I don't want to be wrong and many months later have her taking chunks out of people for example.

Again, it's never gone that way but I don't want it to.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

How is she when you are brushing her sides? Does she have tail flicking? Stomping? Does she get cranky with the girth? Does her tail swish when being ridden? How is she in a herd? What is she like in heat?


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

If you substitute trails for arena, you've written an almost perfect description of my Ellie (RIP), AKA Miss Crotchety, Grumpy Face, etc. Don't know enough about health issues to say if that's a cause, but if she's always like that I'd guess that it's just personality. I rather liked it myself, but maybe that's because I'm sort of the human equivalent, so we were on the same wavelength


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## BreezylBeezyl (Mar 25, 2014)

NBEventer said:


> How is she when you are brushing her sides? Does she have tail flicking? Stomping? Does she get cranky with the girth? Does her tail swish when being ridden? How is she in a herd? What is she like in heat?


She is cranky no matter where you brush her, so I cannot actually comment. Chest seems to be the worst area, I think it's too close to her face and in her personal space.

No stomping or tail swishing on the ground or under saddle and she is not cranky when you do up the girth.

Ironically enough, when she is in heat she is no more difficult to handle. She certainly gets annoying her her squatting and presenting but she doesn't get marish.

She does 'flick' her tail when doing transitions. It is a single swish and is a balancing act, I am told, like how dressage horses will do this in the ring. When this mare is angry or upset, she pins her ears and tosses her head and she does not do this when making transitions.

And as mentioned, in a herd she is the same grouchy self. She doesn't seem to like other horses getting too close and quickly sends them away. She isn't the boss, but she is independent as I would describe her.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

It's not uncommon. As long as it NEVER escalates and as long as it is NEVER at you and she stays out of your space and is respectful at all times then let her be.






Check out her expression. Also check out the lack of response over expression. Then how nicely she responds.

If you nitpick you WILL have a ****y horse. What's also come up is training her to have a certain expression and hide her emotions which can obviously be dangerous.

As long as she is respectful she can think or do what she wants. She needs to have some personal space.

You could try "Mare Magic" or something. It won't hurt.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Hmm I doubt its her ovaries then. Id try some raspberry leaves amd see if they mellow her 'tude a bit. They are basically what mare magic is. Sounds like she is just a grump. As long as she isnt dangerous or in your space id leave her be. If she starts getting nippy then id get at her.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Yes general grumpiness is acceptable. Any attitude *towards you* or anything that may escalate (leg lifting, teeth baring, etc) should be corrected immediately. But as I said it's not uncommon to have the "default cranky mare"  I know several!

My gelding is somewhat aggressive. Not for a beginner handler. If you're a push over he will take advantage and bully you. If you are over aggressive he will fight back. He will bite and he will kick. I've never had any problems because I respect him and let him be himself and he knows that and knows the trade off is respecting me back. Not quite the same but as far as basic "grumpy" handling, yes.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

you can let it go, as long as it doesn't become aggressive toward you. 

or, you can consider why she feels this way. is it being tied? groomed? having people come up behind her? there's some kind of negative feeling there. horses never lie.

I watched my trainer dealing with a horse that had a long term habit of pinning his ears and threatening to bite when being girthed. this hrose had worn an ill-fitting saddle for years. once saddle, he was fine, but saddleing made him feel grumpy. made him feel BAD. he felt BAD. the whole time tacking up. 

after being treated for ulcers, a whole new custom saddle, good pad, and all kinds of body work, he was still this way. he just felt he NEEDED to react this way. 
my trainer just took the line and with several good tugs she interrupted that kind of thinking. she brought him back to her, right now, here. then she started taking up the girth, slowly. if he want off into his habitual reaction, she said, wiht the rope, "hey! I'm here, right here! dont' go there!" and he would release that thought and be dealing with her, right here and now, not his habitual emotional response. 

it looked like punishment, but it was really about getting him to let go of that thought. it could be that a minor tug or wiggle, or an ah! would do the same thing.

I asked why she did this, since it looked to make him even more upset. she said it did not . becuase, he was already feeling BAD, so she brought him away from that, took him out of the bad place and helped him to be clear of that , so that he could choose again . hopefully he would chose to NOT go into that automatic expression of bad feelings. 

it still means that one is fair with girth tightening, and gentle and respectful. but, if they get wrapped up in habitual expression of bad feelings, you can leave them there and just deal with it, or, you can help them give it up.

I'll be honest in that I am not sure how to do this. when my lease horse expresses his anxiety about the girth, I tend to just ignore it and go slow and keep it smooth and steady. I just wanted to explain about this other approach.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I knew a horse just like that. An issue from previous owner. He would bite the air but never turned his head towards anyone so we just left it and made the process as pleasant as possible.

Knowing the mares I know that are cranky about _everything_ and the OP's mare is the same it sounds more like her personality than any trained behavior. Now if there are specific things that make her more cranky I think this method sounds excellent.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

If it's just when she's tied, perhaps she simply feels "trapped" and needs to "defend" herself. You see this sometimes in horses who are in the middle of the pecking order.


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

Add a little magnesium to her diet. I know New England's soils are low in it so it stands to reason New Brunswicks are going to be lacking too.

My old pony mare is the queen of the stink eye. It's never gone beyond the most horrid of dirty looks when things aren't going her way. I get a dirty look... I say Excue Me! and she will often return it with her ears perking forward and raising her nose that I take to mean but "aren't I cute!". So be it. She can have her opinions.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

She is in Alberta Sue, not New Brunswick lol. I'm the unfortunate New Brunswicker here


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## BreezylBeezyl (Mar 25, 2014)

squirrelfood said:


> If it's just when she's tied, perhaps she simply feels "trapped" and needs to "defend" herself. You see this sometimes in horses who are in the middle of the pecking order.


This is interesting, I never thought of this. She has been with the entire herd the whole time I have owned her so I have nothing to compare to unfortunately, but none the less it's some good food for thought.


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## frlsgirl (Aug 6, 2013)

My mare has days where she is constantly pinning her ears and then she's back to normal. She only pins her ears when you ask her to do something she doesn't like (work) or if a gelding gets too close. She never escalates though; she just has grumpy mare face.

I guess that's pretty common in mares.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Regarding tying. The horse I know that is the QUEEN of the sour face really hates being cross tied. Her leaser taught her to ground tie and always does that. The mare LOVES it as she can have her own space and is free to make her faces as she wants!!

I swear you can SEE this mare growling, it's pretty hysterical. Very sweet mare too, just loves her faces and wants to run the barn!

So if this mare is what she sounds like to me it has nothing to do with tying and the faces may be worse when not tied lol


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## BreezylBeezyl (Mar 25, 2014)

Yogiwick said:


> Regarding tying. The horse I know that is the QUEEN of the sour face really hates being cross tied. Her leaser taught her to ground tie and always does that. The mare LOVES it as she can have her own space and is free to make her faces as she wants!!
> 
> I swear you can SEE this mare growling, it's pretty hysterical. Very sweet mare too, just loves her faces and wants to run the barn!
> 
> So if this mare is what she sounds like to me it has nothing to do with tying and the faces may be worse when not tied lol


My mare is the same way, except she is grouchy when being ground tied and not cross tied! I just wish she wasn't such a grump, she just seems downright dismal sometimes... Haha. It's can't be good for her psyche!

What really bugs me is if I touch her chest she does a _little_ head bob/toss - the pinning is something I'm used to but THAT just irks me to no end. Some people are afraid to approach her because she looks really mean (even though she isn't!).

I don't know, I am pretty sure she hates me. lol. I know I shouldn't be so sensitive because she's just being a horse but it makes me feel like she doesn't want to be my friend.

):


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

WillowNightwind said:


> My mare is the same way, except she is grouchy when being ground tied and not cross tied! I just wish she wasn't such a grump, she just seems downright dismal sometimes... Haha. It's can't be good for her psyche!
> 
> What really bugs me is if I touch her chest she does a _little_ head bob/toss - the pinning is something I'm used to but THAT just irks me to no end. Some people are afraid to approach her because she looks really mean (even though she isn't!).
> 
> ...


Pretty similar with the mare I was talking about. I think she couldn't move her head enough to be grumpy lol. She doesn't like the crossties which is clear but she does less "grumpiness" while on them. More grumpiness while groundtied but she is clearly much happier (a large part is because she CAN do her grumpiness and torment nearby horses). As I said she's pretty hysterical. She's smart and stoic aside from the grumpy and she will make the other horses squeal or kick the walls and she looks SO pleased with herself.

I do hear you, but you are being overly sensitive. If it's not working maybe it's not the right horse for you. But sounds like it's just her personality so is take it or leave it. You could try to train her out of it but I feel horses should be allowed to be horses and not robots. She's allowed to have self expression (I encourage this!) as long as it doesn't effect you.

There is another mare like this at the barn I work and the kids had ridden her a time or two. They came up asking if they could give her a treat or would she bite them? I reassured them she wouldn't bite and they were welcome to give her a treat. She came up with her ears pinned saw the treat put them up and happily ate it and was sweet. I thought it was adorable (and told them that) that even though they were worried she may bite they wanted to give her a treat anyways. Again very ****y mare but won't bite.

You've had some good suggestions, raspberry leaves, magnesium, etc.

You can do some research to see where the magnesium levels are at in your area.

It won't hurt to try them and may help. I wouldn't expect a 180 though.


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## TessaMay (Jul 26, 2013)

Another thing that you could think about doing is finding what she really likes and incorporating it into the things she doesn't like to make her look forward to them more. Also, think about her day to day life and what changes might make her happier. 

For instance, my mare was known as the super grumpy mare in my old barn and I found that moving her to a new barn where she got 24/7 turn out rather than a stall with a gravel run took away most of her grumpiness. The glaring and ears back are still there a little, but not nearly as much. Because she never threatens to bite or kick, I don't care if she wants to be grumpy occasionally - I get grumpy from time to time, why doesn't she deserve to have those emotions too?


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Lol had some kids come out to see the sheep and we showed them the horses. They very quickly named my gelding "Grumpy Horse" and had all sorts of great questions "Why is he so grumpy?" "Why is he in charge?" (because he's the meanest XD) "Do you ride them all?" (yes) "Even Grumpy Horse??!!" (yes lol).. Little girl even very carefully went up to him (with me watching closely, he was fine) and she snuck up stuck out her hand and he put his ears up and sniffed it. Came back "MOM MOM! I pet Grumpy Horse!!"

Too cute. (We were about to put them out to pasture and were in their petting so he was moving the others all over the place)


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

Ooops! wrong side of the continent. Try it anyway. It's the one of the major ingredients in most of the moody mare supplements.


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## BreezylBeezyl (Mar 25, 2014)

Yogiwick said:


> Pretty similar with the mare I was talking about. I think she couldn't move her head enough to be grumpy lol. She doesn't like the crossties which is clear but she does less "grumpiness" while on them. More grumpiness while groundtied but she is clearly much happier (a large part is because she CAN do her grumpiness and torment nearby horses). As I said she's pretty hysterical. She's smart and stoic aside from the grumpy and she will make the other horses squeal or kick the walls and she looks SO pleased with herself.
> 
> I do hear you, but you are being overly sensitive. If it's not working maybe it's not the right horse for you. But sounds like it's just her personality so is take it or leave it. You could try to train her out of it but I feel horses should be allowed to be horses and not robots. She's allowed to have self expression (I encourage this!) as long as it doesn't effect you.
> 
> ...


I completely know that I am being overly sensitive about it, honestly I think it's the comments from people that bother me most - I just ignore her most of the time until someone comes up to me and talks about how grumpy she is!

I may try supplements, I may not. Again, I'm not so concerned about it as much as I am tired of hearing people make comments about it because THEN I get super stressed over it. I can't really help it, that is just MY personality! :lol: I tend to be a very reactive individual myself, admittedly my feelings get hurt easily even when they really shouldn't. 

@TessaMay I think I am going to start grooming her while letting her graze. A little late in the year to be starting that, but I might as well do it while the grass is still here. If she is grazing, I can pet her anywhere and her ears stay put. Just goes to show she is just being a big ol' bag and doesn't actually hate the world, lol.

I am still trying to figure out the things she is really interested in, but this is a good start I think.


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## BreakableRider (Aug 14, 2013)

I have one of the must grumpy mares on the face of the planet. My arabian, Izzy, just has a very witchy personality. She always has something to complain about, however, that grumpy face is all that she is allowed to do. I used to try and correct the ear pinning until I realized it's just her, she has her ears slightly pinned no matter if I am around or not. Shes grumpy when she's fed, shes grumpy around her buddy, she's grumpy when she's playing in the pasture, she's grumpy all the time! The only times her ears are up is if she thinks she's going to get bred while she's in heat, down the trail, getting a bath, or if something really interesting is happening. I have it in her mind that her perfect day would be riding down the trail in the pouring rain with a stallion right behind her. 

At this point, I joke that she's too lazy to pick her ears up. I also joke that I should have jumped on the 'grumpy cat' train and made a blog about 'grumpy mare'.

Lots of people are nervous to handle her, but she's gentle as a lamb. She only looks like she might rip someones throat out at any given moment. The difference is, I know this mare. I have owned her for nine years and I am very confident that the ear pinning won't escalate. If it ever did escalate in the tiniest bit, there would be a swift correction. She isn't a mare that you bond with, we have a very respectful working relationship and that's pretty much the end of it. Occasionally, she'll walk up to me in the pasture for a quick rub, but as a general rule, she doesn't enjoy being loved on or groomed. We work well together because I don't expect it out of her, I am not offended that she doesn't particularly like me ( she doesn't like ANYONE, or anything... Her 'buddy' is my other mare that i've had for 8 years but truth be told, she's just the horse that she dislikes the least) and so we get along.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

I truly believe that most "grumpy" behavior, whether in humans or animals, can be attributed to nutrition. In fact, I believe most behavioral problems, with the exception of learned behaviors (ex. learning to buck so rider dismounts, spinning around and ripping lead out of your hands so they don't have to have a bath, etc. etc.) can be solved through nutrition. I myself was a generally very grumpy person, in addition I had a lot of health problems, minor but they still disrupted every day life. I had to go grain free and dairy free in my diet, then get on an herbal hormone balancing supplement. Now I feel SO much better. My quick temper is still there, but its not so quick anymore. You'd have to really bug me to get me to go off at you.

My mare was SUCH a grump as well. Part of this I think was horse feeding off rider emotions (horses truly are a reflection of ourselves), but I've noticed she hasn't been coming into heat constantly since we brought the girls home and there weren't any geldings around. She used to cycle every month, sometimes twice, and it would last for at least a week. A pain, to say the least. I also noticed a big change in my mare's behavior when we started liberty training, but that is a separate issue.

It can't hurt to try an herbal hormone balancer for your horse. It would probably help her be more comfortable, because honestly who can say they actually enjoy being grumpy and angry all the time? I certainly didn't. I would not recommend supplementing the individual ingredient. I experimented with herbs on myself for a while, using them individually, and it is really WAY too easy to overdose unintentionally. Then you start having other behavioral or health problems. It's not that expensive to go with a premade supplement, that will have everything already measured in correct proportions already so you don't have to worry. If my girls ever go back to boarding or we have a gelding around, my mare will be going on a supplement like Mare Magic. I think too often we blame the bad behavior on just being a mare, when we don't look at why the horses are behaving this way. There's a reason we geld studs, and the biggie is that too often hormones make them act loopy and too difficult to manage. Its the same with mares. Hormones out of balance can make your life miserable and cause all sorts of health problems (google it! You will be surprised). I learned this the hard way, and am only wishing I had gotten smarter earlier.

You could also try a change of routine, doing something different. Going trail riding instead of arena work. Or just working from the ground. I think liberty training would really help. In fact, I think it would benefit all horses and riders.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Flo hated being brushed and was never that keen on being petted but she was the best and most honest horse you could wish for
All she ever did was pull a face and never once in 20 years tried to nip or kick
To be honest as a human I'm not that keen on being messed about with either so I could always see her point of view. I like my space.
I'm sure if I'd constantly nagged at her for it she'd have turned nasty and been a problem
Raspberry leaves are just high in magnesium and if you want to be sure of the dose then best to buy an actual magnesium supplement because what's in the leaves can vary depending on where and when picked.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

"The only times her ears are up is if she thinks she's going to get bred while she's in heat, down the trail, getting a bath, or if something really interesting is happening. I have it in her mind that her perfect day would be riding down the trail in the pouring rain with a stallion right behind her. "

LOL!!! Loved that first part too!!

OP I think the part you're stuck on is shrugging it off. Make some response like "you just don't know her" or "she knows she's better than us" or if people are being obnoxious tell them that.


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## southernbound (May 17, 2014)

One of my favorite mares was EXACTLY this way. Just the grumpiest, witchiest mare on earth. Those ears were never up. She was dead broke, perfect kids horse, would go anywhere do anything but made sure you never thought she was happy about it. A buddy passing through made an off hand comment to a supplement called "moody mare" and you know what? That stuff was a life saver. Talk about a perkier mare. It also became much easier to keep her weight at a normal level (she was always fat) and her heats weren't as extreme. Just my two cents, but man reading this post took me back haha


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I had a default cranky gelding. I believe it was due to saddle fit (in hindsight) but at the time I was pretty much a beginner and didn't know much about anything, especially saddles.

Anyhow, my mare is the sweetest thing ever. But my default cranky gelding was wonderful too. He was a great riding horse and I learned to ignore his crankiness on the ground because he was so much fun under saddle.

So I guess I don't see it as a fatal flaw if she is great to ride and work with otherwise. But I know what it is like wanting them to be your friend too, because I also feel that way about my horses.


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