# Hands low and wide?



## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

Subbing, as I'm interested in this as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Yes, it is to encourage the horse to drop their head from bit pressure (as opposed to just breaking at the poll and tucking their nose).

At least that's what it's for in western riding. I would assume it's the same in english, but I can't say with 100% certainty.


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## Manni01 (Jun 15, 2011)

IMO People shouldn't do it.... The hand have an assigned position, and any moves away from this position are somehow wrong.....


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Red, 

The hands should never break the staight line from bit to elbow downwards for more than a second or two as this puts a lot of pressure on the bars of the horse's mouth. So if you see someone riding with their hands wide and low continuously; they may think they're encouraging long and low, but what they're actually doing is pulling the horse's head down by force, never a good idea. 

An experienced, tactful rider might drop the hand down to get the horse's attention and focus back on work, but the key element is the the pressure must be released as soon as the horse responds or used intermittently. 

Far more common is just hands spread wide to invite the horse into contact. If a horse is reluctant or tentative and the contact isn't steady, widening the hands is a good technique. It's the riding equivelent of saying "Can you hear my now?" into the telephone. The idea, again, is not to ride in that position, semi-permanently, but to bring the hands back to normal position once the horse accepts the contact and only go back to wide hands if you feel you're losing the connection again. 

HTH


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## RedTree (Jan 20, 2010)

Thanks for that post maura, really informative.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

As Maura said - riding with hands wide can be a good thing. Particularly on a green horse, you are giving a clearer, steadier contact as opposed to the 'uniform' position of hands together just above the wither. The hands should always come back to the wither when the horse will accept the contact.

Riding with hands low and wide to encourage long and low is simply focussing on the head and neck, and not the hind legs. Just like to multiple questions about collection that get asked on this forum, long and low is still all about the drive of the hind legs into a contact, not just having the horse drop it's head and neck down. Unless the hind legs are still travelling through and under the horse's centre of gravity, there is little to no benefit of the exercise as you are merely teaching the horse to travel on the forehand. Long and low in it's genuine form is intended to stretch and lift the topline. This will not occur if the hind legs are not working. 

So many people like to 'boast' that they warm their horses up in long and low to let them stretch. You then see video's of these warm ups, and they are doing nothing at all other getting the blood pumping, the back is stiff, the hind legs are a mile behind them and usually the nose is curled slightly under due to the use of reins to create a low 'head set'. 
When I warm my horses up, I prefer to ride in quite a long 'frame', with the horse slightly above the bit, and just focus on reactions to my driving aids, while ensuring that I can move the jaw and neck where ever I want it. 
Then I will refine it, until I am starting to get a connection over the back, the jaw and poll are soft, and I can start to move the shoulders and quarters around. Only once I have the horse's back, and can feel that I've got a connection with the hind legs, will I ask the horse to come lower and stretch towards the ground. The second I lose the back and the impulsion, I bring the horse straight back up, re establish the connection and activity, before asking for the stretch again. 

Long and low is more complex than what it is made out to be!


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Manni01 said:


> IMO People shouldn't do it.... The hand have an assigned position, and any moves away from this position are somehow wrong.....


The way you wrote that cracked me up! I could just picture this mean school teacher in a grey dress with big glasses and her hair in a bun with a ruler in her hand!

The hands have an assigned position.....:wink:


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## Manni01 (Jun 15, 2011)

farmpony84 said:


> The way you wrote that cracked me up! I could just picture this mean school teacher in a grey dress with big glasses and her hair in a bun with a ruler in her hand!
> 
> The hands have an assigned position.....:wink:


Well maybe I used a funny way to express it but really the correct way is to keep them in front of you and fairly close together. there is no need to move them. The horse will be able to stretch its neck an move it downwards if you have a correct elastic seat position and keep the right speed for this specific horse......
Of course your connection to the horses mouth must be soft......


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## Strange (Jan 11, 2009)

maura said:


> Red,
> 
> Far more common is just hands spread wide to invite the horse into contact. If a horse is reluctant or tentative and the contact isn't steady, widening the hands is a good technique. It's the riding equivelent of saying "Can you hear my now?" into the telephone. The idea, again, is not to ride in that position, semi-permanently, but to bring the hands back to normal position once the horse accepts the contact and only go back to wide hands if you feel you're losing the connection again.
> 
> HTH


^This. And as Kayty said as well, it's a good technique for greener horses that need a little more "This is where I want you to go". I've also found it helps when I work some of the older horses I ride, since they tend to be a little more stiff warming up and need some encouragement to seek out the contact and start stretching over their back and reaching underneath themselves from behind. As soon as they start to stretch and work correctly from behind My hands go back to where they usually are. Widening your hands is a tool, not something you should do all the time (which I've seen, and it's kind of annoying to watch someone ride like that all through a dressage test).


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## wetrain17 (May 25, 2011)

AKA "the human side rein effect". It annoys me to no end! People do this to force their horses to put their heads down, but like Kayty said, it does not engage the hind end. It is not an effective or productive way to ride. A lot of people have a tendency to focus on one thing, the horse's head. If you ever get confused, look at some of the professionals, Lars Peterson, Todd Flettrich, they NEVER have their hands down and wide....


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

If you're talking spread apart, but still straight line to bit, those are "training wheels" for green horses. Anything below the withers puts pressure on the bars of the mouth (painful) and is very very wrong.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

This is also a method for shortening the rein length without actually shortening your reins. What? Think of a triangle. if you move your hands out farther but keep their distance position in front of you the same the actual rein length will be unchanged but it will have to pull back on the horse's mouth because you are creating a triangle on each side of the neck with a longer and longer hypotenuse. It actually takes up slack in the rein, and when you bring your hands back toward the neck, even if you don't advance them toward the horse, the hrose feels a longer rein.


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## RedTree (Jan 20, 2010)

so everything was making sense till I got to your comment tinylily lol care to explain a little more?


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

RedTree, in explanation to Tiny's post - if you are riding with your reins say 50cm long. Your hands are together at the wither. Then you open your hands out, so that they are still 50cm from the bit, however the distance from the bit to your hand has shortened because you have created a broader gap between your hands. This is a really good technique to use while riding green horses when teaching then about contact. You can quickly create more or less contact without having to try to shorten your reins.


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## RedTree (Jan 20, 2010)

ohh okay that makes sense now, thanks Kayty


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

It is hard to explain. If I could draw it for you, you'd get what I mean. I am sorry if I only confused you. It's kind of geometry in real life!

I use this technique a fair amount, and as Kayty said, helps for horses new to contact and learning to be "stretchy" to the bit.


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