# Auction mare picked up today - pregnant?



## Amarea (May 25, 2010)

I'm sorry LOL but the girly bits terminology made me giggle! =)


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

I'd put my money on preggers....good thing you know about babies Indy!

She just looks too triangular to NOT be bred. A fat horse is a fat horse...she just doesnt look 'regular' fat. Her bum looks rather squishy...and that udder...yikes! 

I just love that appy! Shes too darling for words!


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

Oh how sweet those faces are! I love willow..erm, she is a pony right? What a big cresty NECK!


Amy looks very gentle and sweet.
Beautiful.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Gidget - haha yeah she's a pony (12 hands) but built heavy, like a haflinger. She just appears to have had a neck transplant from an Angus! She'll be real pretty once she's slimmed down a bit. Though in my experience cresty necks like that are very difficult to get rid of. :lol:


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

heh, ignore the pony question .....embarassing!


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

haha, angus... =P


She is a cutie! Can you do a neck sweat on her?

How is amy? She is beautiful...find a new name for her?


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Amy is LOVELY. She's a great mare, I really like her a lot. Hoping Amarea will let me steal her for lessons lol. I am not sure if Amarea's renamed her yet - I know the name Rain has been offered, not sure if it's decided on though. I know Amarea's daughter renamed the pony Willow. I was VERY glad on that count - the pony was being called Sassy - a name I detest. MY pony was also a Sassy when I got her, looks like a smaller version of Willow, and my son promptly renamed her Misty. My mom's dog is also named Sassy. I'm surrounded by them. :-x

I think a neck sweat on Willow wouldn't do much, or be a temporary fix at best, and since the horses here are primarily pastured it would be even more a pain that daily sweats for little results usually is. That crest is solid, been there a long time. Right now Amy and Willow are separated off from the herd, until we get through QT, so it would be a little easier right now, but I've never had great success with it.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

Oh okay. I didn't know how well a neck sweat worked.

Wow,you are surrounded by lots of sassy's! Sassy is a good name for a cat 
Not horses,nor dogs.

I posted on another post and mentioned freckles as a name.
Yay or nay?


Although willow is a darling thing I think Amy is my favorite


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## Amarea (May 25, 2010)

I think I am going to go with Rain  It just seems very suiting for her!

And of course you can use her Indy


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Okay, Willow is NOT pregnant, as she has come in heat. She was standing at the fence today winking in Claymore's direction. So one major relief there!!! Still going to have the vet out shortly to give both girls a thorough checking over though.


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## CheyAut (Nov 26, 2008)

Some mares show in season when they're bred... So I would definately lean toward NOT pregnant, but can't say 100% (and I can't give an opinion either way, I can't see the pics at work and you never know just by pics anyhow lol)


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

I am not surprised Willow is not pregnant........the first thing I thought when I saw her picture is she is extremely obsese......and I would be very concerned about laminitis.......it is not that unusual for a horse that obsese to develope a small udder. This pony is also probably IR........if she were my horse I would find some low sugar hay, get her tested and put her on Thyroid meds to help take off the extra pounds.......I would also not allow any grass......exercising just 3 times a week for 15 minutes will also help.

The other pony is also overweight but not nearly as much........but would also benefit from some low sugar hay.

Super Nova


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Thank you Super Nova. I know Willow is dangerously obese. She's already on a strict diet, we are looking for a grazing muzzle for her. ALL my hay comes from one local grower, it is content tested and low sugar, and I do not give grain, at all, during most of the year, and if I feed in the winter it's Nutrena Safechoice. Willow is also already on an exercise schedule ridden a minimum of 1/2 hour daily. I do my own hooves, barefoot trimming, as well as trimming Amarea's horses, and trust me I've been down the founder road before and am well equipped to work with it!

The pasture the two mares are currently QT'ed in is very sparse as far as grazing goes. I prefer to keep a little extra weight on Rain (the appy mare) as she is older, I'd rather see an old horse with a few extra pounds because they can be much more difficult to get weight on if they lose it. I don't see her as severely obese, like Willow is.

I wasn't looking at Willow's round tummy in my concerns for pregnancy, just her udder and looseness under her tail. I am concerned about IR and cushings as well as laminitis with her and we are planning to get weight off of her as quick as we can!


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## Amarea (May 25, 2010)

Should have the grazing muzzle by this weekend, hopefully sooner!


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

I am glad you are being proactive.........but I would not even feed Nuterea Safe Choice as it is high in sugar.......there is a post of COTH about it not being a good choice for obsese horses. At her weight there is absolutely no reason for any extra calories. Good luck with her.

Super Nova


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Super Nova said:


> I am glad you are being proactive.........but I would not even feed Nuterea Safe Choice as it is high in sugar.......there is a post of COTH about it not being a good choice for obsese horses. At her weight there is absolutely no reason for any extra calories. Good luck with her.
> 
> Super Nova


I was speaking generally for all my horses there - out of my own personal 6 horses, only 3 of them WERE getting feed (and only 1 is now) My draft cross mare was on Safechoice last winter because she is a rehab - was malnourished and skinny and pregnant AND nursing when I got her. My 16 month old colt was on Safechoice as well over last winter/early spring because he shot up in height and got a little ribby. And I have a rescue hackney on Safechoice and beetpulp now because he is underweight. My gelding (in my avatar), my own pony mare, and Amarea's three horses are currently on nothing but pasture. I wouldn't give Willow a thing but hay, EVER. I don't believe in giving horses feed just for the sake of it. I get good hay and that's enough for them.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Super Nova said:


> I am glad you are being proactive.........but I would not even feed Nuterea Safe Choice as it is high in sugar.......there is a post of COTH about it not being a good choice for obsese horses. At her weight there is absolutely no reason for any extra calories. Good luck with her.


This is a little misleading.

SafeChoice is not really _high_ in sugar. It is just not a low NSC feed. Very big difference.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

^^Agreed. We use safechoice as it is a good feed when feeding a bunch of horses. While I agree that it isn't low sugar, I wouldn't call it super high either. Since it is available at tractor supply and is about the lowest sugar content feed they sell there...its what we use. We had everyone on nutrena prime for a while and it was working great but it is middle of the road too.


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

Alwaysbehind said:


> This is a little misleading.
> 
> SafeChoice is not really _high_ in sugar. It is just not a low NSC feed. Very big difference.


 
Sorry don't agree here is a quote from Katy Watts off of Coth

"PLEASE folks. Nutrena Safe Choice runs 27-28% NSC and is NOT safe for obese or laminitic horses. I just HATE the name of this feed. It is like marketing a hot fudge sundae as lower calorie because you leave off the whipped cream and cherry. "

Super Nova


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Again. I am feeding Safechoice to my underweight horses. Not my obese/founder risk horses. Thank you for the info, SuperNova. But Willow is not getting any feed at all. Just hay, and that is limited, and a grazing muzzle is on order for her as well.


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

Indyhorse said:


> I was speaking generally for all my horses there - out of my own personal 6 horses, only 3 of them WERE getting feed (and only 1 is now) My draft cross mare was on Safechoice last winter because she is a rehab - was malnourished and skinny and pregnant AND nursing when I got her. My 16 month old colt was on Safechoice as well over last winter/early spring because he shot up in height and got a little ribby. And I have a rescue hackney on Safechoice and beetpulp now because he is underweight. My gelding (in my avatar), my own pony mare, and Amarea's three horses are currently on nothing but pasture. I wouldn't give Willow a thing but hay, EVER. I don't believe in giving horses feed just for the sake of it. I get good hay and that's enough for them.


It sounds like you have a good handle on things.....best of luck.....I know how hard it is to pull weight off and obsese horse........I have an IR mare that survives on 15lbs of local hay and is 1300 lbs....it is no easy feat.

Super Nova


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

Indyhorse said:


> Again. I am feeding Safechoice to my underweight horses. Not my obese/founder risk horses. Thank you for the info, SuperNova. But Willow is not getting any feed at all. Just hay, and that is limited, and a grazing muzzle is on order for her as well.


Yes I did understand that from your second post.

I posted that information for others that might be feeding it thinking it was safe for laminitic horses.

Super Nova


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## dee (Jul 30, 2009)

Amarea said:


> I think I am going to go with Rain  It just seems very suiting for her!
> 
> And of course you can use her Indy


Amarea - Dancer, Rain and I love your choice of a name for your horse!


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## Amarea (May 25, 2010)

**** Dee! You are the reason I almost went with Whisper for her instead! I didn't want you to think I stole your name haha!!!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Super Nova said:


> Sorry don't agree here is a quote from Katy Watts off of Coth
> 
> "PLEASE folks. Nutrena Safe Choice runs 27-28% NSC and is NOT safe for obese or laminitic horses. I just HATE the name of this feed. It is like marketing a hot fudge sundae as lower calorie because you leave off the whipped cream and cherry. "
> 
> Super Nova


Yes, and her quote is being dramatic. I read the thread on COTH. Read the rest of that thread before you go off giving speeches. Do not quote something out of context. 

She is talking about a laminitic horse. Which agrees with what I typed above. Safe Choice is not low NSC. Yes. Agreed. But 27-28% is not that high sugar compared to the vast majority of horse feeds.

It is a perfectly safe feed for most horses. It is not just sugar. If you are going to tell everyone it is evil be clear as to what you are saying it is evil for up front. Over weight does not equal laminitic!

Triple Crown charts on these things

Purina's little chart

 Southern States chart


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

^

As much as being obese can cause laminitis, an obese horse and a laminitc horse are completely different things. That's like saying an obese horse should have no grass because it has sugar in it (and probably more then ANY feed out there). A lamintic horse must be closely monitered for sugar intake of ANY form, whereas an obese horse requires a PROPER diet. This can involve types of grain as the mineral and nutrition requirements may not be met with hay and grass alone.

That's like comparing a fat person with a diabetic. One may be a cause of the other, but in no way does that mean that a fat person will be on as restricted a diet as a diabetic.

(agreeing with AlwaysBehind)


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

I will say, and I don't see how it's POSSIBLE, but Willow shows no signs of laminitis. Rain clearly shows a previous founder episode, and some subsequent white line stretching/wall separation which we are working with and she is currently ridden in boots. Willow, somehow, doesn't. Her feet are nice and cuppy underneath, she has horrible jags where her feet have self trimmed for some time (and after trimming her I can see why she wasn't done - she's a girl that would traditionally need stocks! working with her though) and although she has a relatively minor flare on the inside of each front hoof - that's honestly the extent of it. There is no white line separation or stretching, there are no stereotypical rings on her feet, her growth pattern is even and smooth, hoof angles are straight and solid, and although chipped and rough her feet aren't all that terribly overgrown as one would expect. She is solid and sound on her feet. I don't know how she's managed to avoid it thus far - but we want to drop that weight FAST to keep from tipping the scales over into founder.


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## Amarea (May 25, 2010)

Hmm so honestly the bucking is probably helping by getting her porky butt to move more! Hehe.. I'm joking


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

HAHA she was bucking on me again today. I almost fall off just due to laughing at her! I mean, really, by the time she loses enough weight for her bucks to be worth a ****, she will be past the stage in working with her that she feels the need to throw them in. She's an attitudy little booger, and I love that about her. Even though I'm sticking to bareback, with a not so secure seat due to how wide she is, her pitiful little bucks don't even move you. She get her hind legs all of 3 inches off the ground at best. They are just laughable!


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## Amarea (May 25, 2010)

It's honestly why I love her too  And I'm close enough to the ground I won't get terribly hurt LOL! We HAVE to video tape her trot LOL


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

^

Founder tends to be a lot like diabetes in people actually, where they don't know enough about it but it's glaringly obvious that some horses are simply prone to it. My obese Arabian gelding foundered bad, and yet Shay-las Mustang/Appy mare who was FAR more obese then him has never contracted it. It's unusual because often ponies are prone to it, but just be thankful she inherited those lucky genetics! They seem to have made some connection with sugar/obesity, but again, the horse likely has to be prone to it as many many obese horses have never gotten it.

Good luck shedding the weight off!


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Well, I can't film her by myself! Come out tomorrow and ride!! The poor girl was sweating after 20 minutes with me today.


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## Amarea (May 25, 2010)

I'll be there tomorrow! These last 2 days were Rob's days so I was kind've limited. I've been looking forward to riding her actually LOL! Just because it's so hilarious!


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

MM, it makes no sense does it? Rain's carrying a few extra pounds, and she has a little bit of a neck crest too, nothing near the almost vulgar obesity Willow has - but Rain has thin, low soles. She seems readily able to come out of it - she moves sound in the pasture, and rides sound at a walk, barely sensitive at the trot, only on rough ground/gravel, so we are riding her in boots for now. Willows feet look rough from chipping, but overall fairly short and correct, and that girl plows through anything without any sensitivity at all. I doubt she's ever had shoes on in her life - in fact I doubt she's ever been trimmed much in her life!

Amarea - sounds like a plan!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Rain's previous issues may have been caused by something totally unrelated to her weight or genetics. Maybe she had a break into the feed room incident? Or maybe someone shoved her out on lush grass after not being on any? Who knows.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

Awww...it sounds like Rosie and Willow are the same! Rosies bucks are almost sad...its just that pathetic. She has a sassy little attitude too! Did you guys get your grazing muzzle in yet? If not, let me know! I have one Ill send ya.


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Yes, and her quote is being dramatic. I read the thread on COTH. Read the rest of that thread before you go off giving speeches. Do not quote something out of context.
> 
> She is talking about a laminitic horse. Which agrees with what I typed above. Safe Choice is not low NSC. Yes. Agreed. But 27-28% is not that high sugar compared to the vast majority of horse feeds.
> 
> ...


What I saw was frustration. I have also been to one of her seminars and it was my understanding from her talk that those levels were also inappropriate for your average horse if my memory is correct.

I do not agree that 27 to 28% is not high......in my books that is too way high for most pleasure horses.......horses were not designed to consume that amount of sugar.

I am not saying the food is evil........I am saying in my opinion if is inappropriate feed for most pleasure horses or horses in moderate work......the execption might be horses that actually work hard for a living.......ie top level competitors for example.

I think that if we feed our horses low sugar hay minus the grain or pellets that we would have far less obesity and IR issues. 

Super Nova


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Super Nova said:


> I think that if we feed our horses low sugar hay minus the grain or pellets that we would have far less obesity and IR issues.


I do not disagree with this, at least about the weight issues. I am not sure I believe that not eating sugars will prevent IR.

I find it interesting that you seem to think sugar percentage and NSC percentage are the same thing.

You are allowed to believe in your theories on feeding horses. It does not make others wrong and it certainly does not make this particular grain bad.

I might tend to agree with you more if we were talking about a molasses coated sweet feed here. But we are not.

The average person can eat what they want with out freaking over a snickers bar or putting jelly on their toast in the morning (provided their exercise level equals out their calorie intake). Just like the average horse can eat a middle of the road level NSC feed (again, provided their exercise level equals out their calorie intake) with out any issue.

Extremes are not required.


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

Alwaysbehind said:


> I do not disagree with this, at least about the weight issues. I am not sure I believe that not eating sugars will prevent IR.
> 
> I find it interesting that you seem to think sugar percentage and NSC percentage are the same thing.
> 
> ...


I guess the question is what is considered middle of the road.........in my books that is between 10 and 20% max and I am not talking NSC's I am talking about WSC's and ESC's separately along with starch.....in other words when I get my hay tested my preference is to have both WSC's and ESC's both below 10% if possible.

Its my understanding that high sugars can have an affect on gluscose and or insulin levels. 

Again I did not say the food was bad......just inappropriate for most pleasure horses.

Super Nova


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Exactly, and beautifully said AB!

As I have stated, I have been VERY happy with the results of the beetpulp/Safechoice combo on my underweight rescue mare, and my underweight rescue gelding. Putting enough calories to get a decent weight gain, without risking a sugar overload putting them into founder is a delicate line to walk, and one that was successful for me with this combination.

To demonize any given thing just for existing is an unrealisitic mentality. And generally, I find, one that comes from reading things and skimming the surface without really UNDERSTANDING the biology. And that goes for all consumptives, human and equine alike, be it sugar, carbs, fat, or even caffeine and alcohol. In moderation such things are not evil or dangerous, and in many cases the first several on the list are required for a healthy, balanced diet.

My hay is content tested, low sugar AND low NSC. My fatties get hay alone. My horses that need a little more do well with just the addition of safe choice and that makes my pocketbook happy as well - a consideration when you are feeding as many horses as I am.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Indyhorse said:


> Exactly, and beautifully said AB!
> 
> As I have stated, I have been VERY happy with the results of the beetpulp/Safechoice combo on my underweight rescue mare, and my underweight rescue gelding. Putting enough calories to get a decent weight gain, without risking a sugar overload putting them into founder is a delicate line to walk, and one that was successful for me with this combination.
> 
> ...


 
Another thank you to Alwaysbehind.

No one can make the statement that this or that will cause "X" in ALL horses. There are exceptions to every rule out there. We've been feeding SafeChoice as the primary feed to a herd of mainly pasture puffs for several years. We have not had any adverse issues.

I did send an FYI to Nutrena about the thread on COTH. I hope someone from the home office will say something to address the issues mentioned there.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

mls said:


> I hope someone from the home office will say something to address the issues mentioned there.


Good thinking MLS. I hope your email does not get lost (as I am sure they get so many) and they do come and post. I look forward to hearing what they have to say.


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## QHDragon (Mar 6, 2009)

Oooh, I didn't know that you lived that close to me. (next time you go we should meet over pie  )

The appy mare is too cute! Nice picks! How were prices?


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## Amarea (May 25, 2010)

We got Rain for $470 and Willow for $400. They were some of the higher priced horses that were sold that day. The average was about $200-$250. Registered TWH's sold for $225, Registered QH's sold for $260. A spotted POA sold for $10!!! Maybe we can meet up at the Black Friday sale at Shipse! They are going to run through about 400 horses that day!


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## QHDragon (Mar 6, 2009)

If I am off crutches and able to walk normally by then I plan on going (god help me if I'm not walking by November).  If I don't have a horse by then I am going to have to duct tape my hands into my pockets! 

Sounds like prices were better then when I was there back in June-ish (which is surprising now that we are going into winter). I think the highest was around $210 for some registered QHs.


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## Amarea (May 25, 2010)

That sounds similar to this time honestly. The $260 was a barrel prospect that several people were drooling over LOL. The most expensive one was a DROP DEAD gorgeous Standardbred / Suffolk Punch cross that was just WOW. It went for $1550! The other mare I had my eye on went for $670 but she was a prime horse for the Amish bidders due to her build, etc. If I had not controlled myself, a BEAUTIFUL paint TWH yearling would sooo have been mine!


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## speedy da fish (May 7, 2009)

Willow's udder does look significant. Both your new girls are gorgeous, love Willow's colour.


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

Indyhorse said:


> And one of Amy (the other purchase from today) just so she didn't feel left out


 

Wow. she looks like a thicker version of my girl Whooty!!! 

Here's Whooty.


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## OnAWhimFarm (Sep 6, 2010)

I know this is late to add to this thread, but if you need to take weight off a horse like Willow, add 1 cup of canola oil to her hay and it will reduce inflammation and help lose her crest. I have Rockies and they are all very sensitive to sugar. I have used the canola oil on alot of overweight horses with good results and no negative issue's.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

How does adding fat take weight off?


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## OnAWhimFarm (Sep 6, 2010)

Canola oil is actually an anti-inflammatory.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

And that has what to do with weight gain?

:-?



I thought that Canola was one of the oils that had their omega 3s and 6s not properly balanced so it might actually cause more inflammation issues than it would help.


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