# 2-year-old mustang mare



## younghorsetrainer (5 mo ago)

She's cute! Looks a little like she has some draft in her.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Thanks @younghorsetrainer! I think so. The horses on our range were all pretty drafty.

ETA- I kinda want to do one of those dna tests on her. She looks like a draft to me too, but she certainly does not move like one! This mare can flat footed jump out of our horse corral! Lol. She can move!


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## younghorsetrainer (5 mo ago)

Lol @Knave! That sure does sound like a funny draft horse! It is so hard to imagine a draft horse jumping.


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## My Salty Pony (Jan 1, 2022)

Shes a beauty and love how shes built, she's built like a little Mac Truck and I agree she looks like a mini draft horse. She is strong and healthy looking for sure!!!


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Maybe better after riding pictures.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

@younghorsetrainer the lowest spot in the corral is 5’6”! Lol. She tries to do everything to an extreme. I hope she doesn’t loose her athleticism as she ages.

@My Salty Pony thank you! She’s taller than she appears at 15hh now. I don’t know why she always looks tiny in pictures. Of course, that still would be mini!


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## dustyk (Nov 14, 2020)

Really nice looking young lady!! Like her symmetry, things just kind of fit together. If I were either you or lovetolope I'd be proud to show off my 2 year old!!!


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Thank you @dustyk! I have felt like she’s had an awkward look all year. She’s chubby, and in hard work, so there’s really nothing to do about it.


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## dustyk (Nov 14, 2020)

She has always looked to me that anyone who runs in to the end of your rope better be prepared to fall down. I see stout, not baby fat. Not disagreeing with, just admiring!


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Thank you @dustyk! She does seem really stout on a rope for sure!


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## Harktak (Mar 12, 2021)

She sure is built, I love her hind end, lots of power and looks well balanced (one pic she is standing squared). Nice kind eye and face. If I were to say anything negative, her neck looks a little too thick and the angle of her shoulders to wither looks maybe a little steep? If so her trot maybe a bit choppy? Having said that when you look at her as a whole those two things seem to balance out. idk certainly no expert, I like to look and post and then see what others say to see if I was on the right track or not. Forgive me if I am out to lunch but I think she looks like a great ranch horse.

Speaking of her shoulders, do you find it tough to fit a saddle that gives her enough clearance ?


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I learn a lot @Harktak from the conformation posts, because I am not good at it at all. I also think her neck is a bit thick looking, yet she does gather it up pretty. As far as her trot, she is probably the smoothest moving horse I have ever ridden. She can long trot out really fast, or she can gather it up and do this baby trot. Neither is choppy in the least. I’m not saying that is how she is conformed though.

Actually, I thought she would be really interesting to see what people said, because she is so athletic and appears she would not be, to me. So, what I thought would be intriguing would be to see if she went against how she is built to go, or if my assumptions based on a horses general look were so off from not being able to read conformation. Does that make any sense?

When I picked her out I actually based a lot upon this dressage article about athleticism in foals. It wasn’t conformation based, but movement based. She was the only horse who followed all of the guidelines that I could see. Now, I know nothing of dressage and am interested in cowhorse type horses, but I thought athletic would be athletic.


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## Linoone (11 mo ago)

@Knave 

Queen is from the Diamond Hills North Herd Management Area, correct? 

Lovely herd of horses, known to produce tall, sturdy horses with lots of bone. Apparently "Diamond" horses are also know for having nice temperaments and being high trainability! Plus, I suppose it helps that the herd is highly colorful as well. 

Programs: Wild Horse and Burro: Herd Management: Herd Management Areas: Nevada: Diamond Hills North HMA | Bureau of Land Management 

Elko Field Office 



Knave said:


> When I picked her out I actually based a lot upon this dressage article about athleticism in foals.


I'd love to hear more about this, do you have a link to the article?


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Really nice for a two year old. Stout little girl. Don't ever underestimate how quick or nimble a draft can be. Add a sprinkling of other and you can end up with something that can really move. Jumping isn't an issue.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

@Linoone yes she is! I would say that’s right too, although a hotter style of horse, she is really trainable. I wish I kept the article! I’ve looked for it again, and I’ve never seen it!

I don’t even know dressage riders, so that doesn’t help me look because I don’t remember who wrote it! It was from some Olympic rider, and I believe a female, and she was discussing how she chooses foals. There was a list of what she wanted. I can’t remember any of them either, excepting there was a rule of picking the hind up completely instead of having it drag at all before being picked up. I wish I remembered all of the rules!

Her athleticism is almost intimidating if I’m honest. According to the rules of this article, 99% of the colts off of that allotment would not qualify. However, that was mares, for I didn’t watch any of the stud colts.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Oh @Linoone, I wouldn’t call her nice tempered. Lol. I love her, and she loves me, but she is a mean spirited horse. It makes me laugh, but she’s out for blood.

@QtrBel I don’t know why I always assumed drafts were not athletes in the way of hotter bred horses. My big mustang, he must be almost purely draft based, is no athlete. He is a good dude, and handles nice and is a powerhouse, but he’s not agile by any stretch.


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## lovetolope (Nov 20, 2021)

Aw @Knave, she's so cute! I don't see why you were so hesitant to show her to us. 
Very, very stout build. Wow, I bet she's a powerhouse!


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

@lovetolope she is a powerhouse! She is tough too! Due to circumstances she has been my main horse all year for work. You can’t tire her out. She is solid and she is strong, and she has a killer work ethic (at work, not so much in the arena).


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## LooneyTickAcres (Jun 23, 2015)

I absolutely love her! I am a bit biased towards drafts and stouter built horses in general though! She reminds me of a Haflinger x QH mare I had many years ago….not by color, but in general build. That mare was also an athlete and had the absolute smoothest trot I’ve ever experienced. I think you found a gem with her for sure. Can’t wait to see how she finishes out! I have no idea why you were worried about posting her!


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I guess @LooneyTickAcres she just is not the standard two-year-old I’m used to seeing maybe?


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

My two top jumpers and my son's lease were/are draft and draft crosses. There are some that are not in that category but I wouldn't say not athletic just not that type of athlete. It all depends on how they're bred and what they are bred to. Many that cross don't put much thought into it beyond crossing x draft with y saddle type. They bred anything with a uterus and the right equipment.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

That makes sense @QtrBel. I guess honestly I’ve just not been around a lot of draft animals, and the few around when I was young were on ranches to pull the feed wagon. I wasn’t even around them to speak of. Zeus is a fjord, and he’s athletic enough, but these are my first experiences.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

Don't forget that Snowman was most likely a pure Percheron. These are the most famous of the awards he won jumping.

1958 United States Equestrian Federation Horse of the Year (formerly called AHSA Horse of the Year)
1958 Professional Horseman's Association champion.
1958 Champion of Madison Square Garden's Diamond Jubilee.
1958, 1959 United States Open Jumper Champion.

When I was 9 years old, I saw him jump at the Washington International Horseshow. What a thrill.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I forgot about Snowman @knightrider!! Really the mare would probably excel if she got to be a jumper!


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

She's broad in chest, deep in heart-girth and big butt of power.
Her legs are stout and support the mass of size she is and is going to become.
Those legs are on the corners of her body.
She has a bit of angle to her hinds that translates to power...feet that are wide and not being smushed to fit some typey nonsense so she can carry herself like the wings on Pegasus.. A magical sight...

She either is draft influenced or foundation Quarter to have what she has seen....
She is already a force to be reckoned with and only going to get more savvy as she is exposed to more and given a chance to explore and know she is protected and can trust her rider to guide her if she is worried...
She is a thinker not a reactor and it shows...
She will always be a bit hard to keep the weight off...
She glows with health and is growing balanced currently....
As she continues to grow and mature she will continue to amaze you breaking so many stereotypes and preconceived comments you've heard....

Queen, continue to amaze and enjoy the challenges kindly asked of you....
Exceed all expectations and enjoy finding that special niche you are destined to belong in....

She is a beauty Knave.....
🐴...


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## boatagor (Jun 27, 2017)

I'm not good at conformation at all but just wanted to say I love Queen 😍


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Wow @horselovinguy!! Thank you so much. That really touched me.

Thank you @boatagor!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

She's a junior tank! she has what is called 'close coupled' flanks, meaning the hind is attached reallly closely to the gut area (not 'willowy at all) . Most every such horse I've seen like this is a lot quicker than they 'd look and particularly healthy all around. 
She has good , straight legs and ratio of bone size of pastern and canon is really good. She looks a LOT llike the half Clydesdale I am leasing right now. Let me see if I can find a photo of him. The coloration on her , where she has white and all, is a dark version of a Budweiser horse.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Thank you @tinyliny! She’s lighter in the summertime. I always felt she looked like a baby Clydesdale as a foal. I’ll show you the Clydesdale picture I took of her! (If you remember that commercial. Also, this was early spring last year, and you can see how hairy she gets!)


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I am told that the other half of this horse I am leasing is warmblood. perhaps Hanovarian? or ? his coloration reminds me of a German type warmblood. He is not especially 'agile' but he is very surefoote on the trail.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

What a little tank! Guess she's not so little at 15 hands but she doesn't look it. I think when they're stocky like that it makes them look shorter. Trying to guess her bone structure under the hair is kinda difficult but the only thing that I see is that she is a little cow hocked. I've seen youngsters grow out of that before so time will tell. Even if she doesn't it's not bad enough to hurt anything. She's got more than enough muscle to compensate for any hind end weakness. 

Furthermore, I LOVE SASSY MARES!!! If you're one of the few people/things she likes, she'll work her best for you.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

@JCnGrace I kinda love sassy mares too!!


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## SmokeyC (Nov 4, 2021)

Holy what an absolute tank! She would CRUSH my piddly little filly any day of the week 😂


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I don't think I would call her cow hocked.
If I were assessing her knowing nothing about her, I would notice her shoulder angle is a little steep, her neck ties into the chest a little low, and I would wonder if her hind end angles were a little straight.

Backing up, then I would notice her draft ancestry and then seeing her overall symmetry, and how her shoulder and hip angles match, I would think a steeper shoulder would be correct for her type - bred for pulling.

Since I know she moves athletically and rides smooth, I know her hind end angles are not steep enough to be limiting, and instead are probably an asset for accelerating.

What I see is a balanced horse with good bone and hooves, and knowing she has drive and athleticism plus a smooth gait makes her A+++ and I would buy her.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Lol @SmokeyC!

Thank you @gottatrot! I am trying to learn about angles, but connecting them to movement is beyond my limited understanding still. Lol


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

If I understand it right, supposedly a horse with a steeper shoulder may have rougher gaits. But flexibility and other factors of movement can make this not the case.

A more sloping hip and croup will allow the horse to reach under well, but if the croup is too flat the movement is limited. Too steep of an angle and the horse will have to shorten the gait in order to not hyper extend. It can lead to stifle issues. But steeper helps with hind end power for cow work or sprinting. Dressage horses tend to have more slope to the hindquarters, stock horses steeper. Either extreme is bad.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

That’s very interesting @gottatrot! Today I studied Lucy some, and her muscling is very evident since she’s still building weight after Oakley. She is choppy. She’s athletic yes, but she’s very up and down in movement, and I always figured she was a dressage star at heart. Her angles are steep.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Since this was in regards to Queen, here is her year video! I’ve kept her to a different type of training plan, in response to who she is. The video doesn’t show a lot of athleticism, but there are only certain times you have out the camera, and they are never in a tight spot where you have to step up! Lol. As far as regular arena work type stuff I kept her on the duller side, because she is naturally an intense and hot style of horse and I have worked to keep that under wrap this year.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

She looks a lot like a registered Welsh Section C that I used to have


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

@jaydee how did he turn out?


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Looks like you've done a wonderful job with her.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Thank you @JCnGrace! I’m pleased with her. We will see if I regret the slow start or not, but I think I won’t!


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Knave said:


> @jaydee how did he turn out?


He wasn’t a youngster when we bought him - he was a 6 year old in that photo, he stood at 13.2 
I had him for about a year, he was only just been broke when we got him to ride on and then sell.

He was too sharp for anything but an experienced young rider - never spooky, no rear or buck, just VERY forward.

He jumped really well but he wasn’t very careful over anything he knew would fall down.

A friend’s son did some Mounted Games with him for me and we sold him to someone who wanted a Pony Club Games pony.

I’d have been tempted to keep him if he’d been 15 hands +


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I get that @jaydee. I would have bought Moon from my youngest myself if she wasn’t a pony. She was sensitive and forward too to start.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

She is nice looking. I really am not a fan of riding a two year old. She is stocky but that does not mean her bones are all developed. it takes a horse up to age 5 to fully develop the spine.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Well @stevenson, as I have said there are studies to show each direction, so I think it all comes down to opinion and not pounding an animal.

My husband’s Lucy ended up out of work. She couldn’t handle work bred, and kept trying to sluff the foal. Then she foal foundered.

Husband had to use Cash for work (my big horse), and Queen had to go. She did work a lot harder than most two-year-olds, but I also had to use her. Sometimes we are out of options.

Yet, I believe everything happens for a reason too, and Queen got the start she needed to get.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

Knave said:


> Well @stevenson, as I have said there are studies to show each direction, so I think it all comes down to opinion and not pounding an animal.
> 
> My husband’s Lucy ended up out of work. She couldn’t handle work bred, and kept trying to sluff the foal. Then she foal foundered.
> 
> ...


Yes there are conflicting studies, but what I have personally seen, hard work as 2 yr olds, end up with sore legs and back by the time the horse is 10 -15.


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## ksbowman (Oct 30, 2018)

@Knave, Gosh I don't know how I missed this thread. What a beautiful filly! She is everything I look for stout, muscled heavy, short coupled, big boned, good hooves, good looking front end. She is nice. I never think of a mustang with this kind of build. She reminds me so much of my Ki the way she is put together. She won't have any trouble throwing a calf or cow around. Great find!


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## dustyk (Nov 14, 2020)

stevenson said:


> Yes there are conflicting studies, but what I have personally seen, hard work as 2 yr olds, end up with sore legs and back by the time the horse is 10 -15.


Spent years in harness racing where racing 2 year olds is common. I'd say that lack of fitness is much more a factor than age. Worked with many that raced until mandatory retirement then went on to second careers


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I haven’t seen many sore backs at all @stevenson. We have only had one string of horses with any arthritis, which made it seem genetic. Maybe we’ve just been lucky, but most of our horses have held up into old age quite well, and they have mostly all been started as two-year-olds. In fact, the one late start I had ended up with ringbone very young.

@ksbowman thank you!! I think she is built a lot different from what we think when we imagine a mustang for sure. That was a lot better of a herd of horses. She came off where we run cows, and it did make the magical difference I imagined. She knows that country, she doesn’t drop legs in badger holes…


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## rambo99 (Nov 29, 2016)

@Knave queen is one sturdy built horse love her looks very pretty filly. Looks to have a nice handle on her under saddle.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Thank you @rambo99!


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