# Breeding? I really dont see what..



## buddy09 (Nov 15, 2009)

I have been to plenty of shows and i have heard MAny people talk about their horses blood lines and how certain ones make a good barrel horse and blah blah blah. I really dont care bout blood lines because what are they gonna do im mean their blood lines not like a i dont know something special yea know. I want to know other people opionons about this because i dont think their important but i just want to see what other people think on this subject about blood lines.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

I think bloodlines a very important. A horse will take after it's parents athletic ability so if you have a horse out of two 1D barrel horses chances are your colt is going to be above average at barrels. 

I also think that it's really important for every animal to be papred so that we can track genetic defects much easier.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Bloodlines are important, but they are not definite. Not all well bred horses are fantastic and there are grade horses I wouldn't turn away. 

I also don't really care about who my horses great great grandfather is. However if I can look at his sire and dam I can see what they excelled on (and are bred for) and select a job for him based on that. If I am breeding, I can look at the sire and dam and select based on complimenting conformation in the hopes to get a well put together horse. Does it always work? Of course not. But it's better than just breeding blindly. 

Also, artificial breeding allows for artificial selection. I have a better chance (not guaranteed) of getting a good cow horse if I look for lineage of horses that are built for getting down after a cow and naturally took to chasing cows. I wouldn't want a 17h dressage bred horse to sort cattle all day with just like a stocky little cow horse wouldn't be my first choice for my next eventer. Bloodlines influence conformation and build and thus what they will excell in. HOWEVER, personality and training of course plays a part


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

You have a horse (we will call him A). A is a wonderful race horse, great confirmation, no leg injuries (or what not) and he sires the same. His foals are great racers and their foals are great racers. People start wanting his lines because "racing is in their blood". 

You have a bloodline.

Bloodlines say possibility. My filly is Impressive bred, what does that say? Halter! Her sire and her dame and their sires and dames and so on were all halter bred horses and she comes from halter bloodlines. 

I like bloodlines, lol.


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## buddy09 (Nov 15, 2009)

But i have a horse that had the "best" barrel bloodlines you can get(thats what my trainer said) and he ended up being a pleasure horse because he didn't have the desier to run like most barrel horses do. I no some people that would have still forced him but i wanted the best for him so i just ended up selling him off to a little girl that did the pleasure. Most of my horses are registed but i couldn't tell you the first horse on their papers cause i dont care


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Your horse doesn't have the heart for racing. 
He's probably built well enough for it though if he does have good breeding for it. 
Bloodlines are not the only part of the equation.


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## buddy09 (Nov 15, 2009)

Yea he was built up real nice my trainer said that if he had heart he would have been a great barrel horse. The girl i sold him to though really loves him and what i find sad is that she used him in pleasure and now games him and he will run full out for her! maybe he just needed someone to work with him instead of just bein sent to a trainer but im still glad for her.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Bloodlines are not terribly important to me. I just ride for fun and do ranch work so it isn't important that I have a *such-and-such* bred horse. When it comes to excelling at a particular discipline; racing, WP, reining, dressage, jumping, etc., etc., bloodlines do play a big part because many times, successful parents and grandparents will mean a capable foal. Of course though, there are exceptions to every rule. My brother is the exact opposite, he wants his horses to be dripping with cow savvy and wants the old type cutting lines like Mr San Peppy, Doc O'Lena, Colonel Freckles, Colonel Hotrodder, etc. I don't really need anything like that. They can be fun to play on sometimes but my horses are taught to watch a cow and they do well enough for me, I don't need something that I can take to a NCHA show. I guess that may be why my main horses are 2 mustangs, a grade qh, and someday (when he grows up) a qhxbelgian. LOL. But I don't do anything that I would need a horse to really excell at, I prefer good all around using horses and you don't need bloodlines of any kind for that.


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## buddy09 (Nov 15, 2009)

Well all my horses are registered except buck but the only reason they are is so i can take them to AQHA shows but i have never looked at their bloodlines on any of the papers. and i really dont believe that it matters for anything what kind of bloodlines your horse has because my horse buddy aka Gandi Dancer, is a great cutter but does barrels to and i really dont even care if he has the "Bloodlines" for either because he has already won thousands so obviously it doesn't matter that much


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

How can you make an argument about bloodlines if you know nothing about them and don't care to learn?

Not saying you have to, but if you don't care...


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

I think bloodlines are a great way to track genetic ability as well as genetic defects.

Anyone who buys an Impressive bred horse knows to have that horse tested for Hyperkalemic Periodic Paralysis. Why? Because through keeping track of bloodlines, this disease has been linked to Impressive bred horses. 

By keeping track of bloodline natural ability can be monitored. If a particular horse has great "cow" or racing abilities, ect., and they have successfully passed that on to their progeny and so on, then if you are looking for a horse for a specific purpose such as racing, roping, ect., you'd probably look to its bloodlines to show that it has the natural ability to do just that. Having the natural ability means the horse has the proper mindset, conformation, and temperment to do a specific discipline or group of disciplines. This makes a great deal of difference and (usually) makes the horses easier to train if they have been bred for that specific purpose.

Now natural ability doesn't necessarily mean that a specific horse will love to do or even be good at what it is bred to do, but more often than not, they are.

Keeping track of bloodlines is very useful you can track color, size, temperment, ability, longevity, health and much more by looking at a horses ancestry.


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## buddy09 (Nov 15, 2009)

well im not trying to argue but i just dont get y some people think about the horses bloodlines before they even ride the horse, one of my friends had a horse forsale and ended up losing the sale because the person said that the horse had "Sucky" bloodlines and that horse does everything and anything, he has roped, gamed, been a rodeo pick up horse, done cutting, sorting and team penning and the horse just got shot down because of his blood lines(not literally)


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

Was he gelded? Some people sadly are bloodline snobs, but it is a personal preference, just like you don't care, bloodlines mean alot to some people.

Also when purchasing a horse, I like to look at the bloodlines for the sake of resaleability, whereas you might not really care, it may make you alot more money to sell a papered horse because of the bloodlines it posesses. It is alot more difficult to unload an unpapered horse or one that has poor breeding, than a papered horse with decent lines, and that is just a fact. Your unpapered horse might be better than any unpaprered horse out there, but the big spenders in the market today are looking for lines more than anything (the ones where i live anyway).


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## buddy09 (Nov 15, 2009)

well this is kinda a personal thing but all my horses are registered and i ended up selling one of my reg. ones for around 35,000 i no papers make them more valuable n that but i dont no


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

There are many things pedigree can tell you about a horse. Especially if you are a breeder. I breed and show in a certain discipline so I look at the horses pedigrees quite a bit. I want a horse bred to do that discipline. I know what lines cross better with what lines. I also know what lines to stay away from. Is this a 100% certainty?? No there is exceptions to every rule but the rule will win out the vast majority of the time.

This is why registries keep track of pedigree and points and earnings for each given event. If it was not important they would not do all the work it takes to track a this info.

The pedigrees on my horses say reiner and reined cow horse. That is what each excel at at a high level. I have also had a cutting bred stallion who was a decent reiner better reined cow horse and what made him good at these things also made him a pretty good Speed event horse. He had good rate and turn b/c of the cow. He had OK speed but made up for it at the turns. He had a good work ethic you get from the cow lines. He was what his breed said he would be. A bit lazy but other then that worked well.

Cassie one of my reining mares looks like her breeding. She also performs like her breeding says she should perform. Also these lines are known to be very very good NRHA Open level reiner and do just as well with their non pro owners. This is something pedigree with tell you. This mare has earnings not only in the NRHA Open but also in the green and rookie reiner just like her pedigree says she should. Same with her brother.

I can go on and on about different lines. Again there are always exceptions however the rule will be more prevalent then the exception.


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## buddy09 (Nov 15, 2009)

Well i no that many breeders need good bloodlines and thats what that person the "shot" down my friends horse was looking for she was looking for a better team penning stud then what Shay was, but it dont matter now SHay's dead but my buckskin(buddy) is a great cow horse but i really have never looked at his lines to see what he was bred for and i really dont want to no because i didn't even no he was reg. until 3 month ago so that was a shock but a good shock


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

thing is how can you sit here and say that lines are not important when you know nothing about them how to use them correctly. 

Knowing lines gives you a lot of info. It is like putting something together. You might be able to do it with out the instructions but it sure helps to have them.


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## buddy09 (Nov 15, 2009)

i no stuff bout lines i may not know as much as you do but for a 13 year old i sure do no alot more then some people. I have looked at acouple of my horses lines but only because i wanted to see what i could find out about their now dead sires, but thats the only time ive ever really looked closely at them and for useing them correctly i dont think i need to because i wont breed any of my horses for acouple of years seein as i use all my horses in everything i do so, wont need to no how to use them "correctly" for acouple of years


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

i love looking at my horses bloodlines, because i always love to see good hroses in there... but there have been alot of horses with not-so-good bloodlines that have made it to the top. i like to look at the horse AND bloodlines, but i look at the horse most importantly


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## buddy09 (Nov 15, 2009)

Thats kinda how i see it rider girl because yea papers might make the horse more valuable in the end but if you like the horse and you get to bond with it paper really end up not mattering unless you do huge AQHA show or whatever, but that the only reason mine are reg. because i go to them shows sometimes. but if you like the horse that is the most important thing (i think)


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## I love Arabs (Nov 19, 2009)

FehrGroundRanch said:


> I think bloodlines a very important. A horse will take after it's parents athletic ability so if you have a horse out of two 1D barrel horses chances are your colt is going to be above average at barrels.
> 
> I also think that it's really important for every animal to be papred so that we can track genetic defects much easier.


 
Agreed. I mean what if a qh stallion and an STB mare produced the ugliest, worst mannered, confo crop out, beast? would you want thatt horse again? NO OFFENCE TO THE BREED JUST EXAMPLES!! Papers make a huge difference around here if your QH aint registered good luck showing anything more than locals. Ialso think that it atters because (like the aboves says) What if the horse has a transferable disease? That wouldnt be good!


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

buddy09 said:


> well this is kinda a personal thing but all my horses are registered and i ended up selling one of my reg. ones for around 35,000 i no papers make them more valuable n that but i don't no


I'm not trying to be rude by any means, but for the life of me I can't tell what you were trying to say here... I am sorry that just bugs me to no end and please could you punctuate a bit, it makes it so much easier to get your meaning when you use commas and sentences. (txt spk is not allowed on the forum btw,_* and is not "n"*__*, Know, not no*_)

Were you replying to me with this? 

What makes it personal? That you sold a papered horse for 35k?

The way you worded it, it sounds like you know the importance of papering your animals and the value of doing so, but then you say that you don't know? 

People keep telling you exactly why papers are so important but you just keep saying, "i don't no..."???? What don't you know about?! 

So my question is, do you really care about your question or do you just want to make a fuss about registering horses?


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## Macslady (Oct 23, 2009)

First of all the poster is 13, so "her" horses are actually her parents horses and I am sure they are the ones concerned with the bloodlines. If you are selling horses for $35,000 then these animals have what I am sure are excellent bloodlines for their discipline. 

I don't know if the OP is trying to get a flame war going here or what, but if she doesn't care about bloodlines I wouldn't worry about it, she's not buying or breeding.


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## buddy09 (Nov 15, 2009)

HOneysuga i was replying that i no that papers can make a horse better in some people's minds and that they sell for more with the papers.
Macslady The horse that we sold was actually mine, i paid for him and most of my others without my parents help because we just pick up cheap young ones at auctions, and yes some bloodlines matter to my parents but most of the time we just reg. horses so we get more money for them. and yes i am 13 but age is only a number and age really doesn't matter because not all young people are dumb. and yea macslady we do buy, train, sell and breed.


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## xEquestrianx (Aug 30, 2009)

I like bloodlines, but they don't determin what horses are good, and which ones aren't. My horse is a nice barrel horse, and she's a TWH...not an exceptionally bred one either.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

My brain hurts.


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## sillybunny11486 (Oct 2, 2009)

My mare has drop latch breeding, thats all I saw in there that stuck in my mind. I dont know APHA lines very well. If anyone wants to look her up: Lacys Corona. The papers are upstairs somewere in my organizer. Her breeding didnt mean that much to me, because was going to do whatever riding style she excelled it. It ended up just being pleasure and trails. If I was looking for a jumper, or any horse I had a specific purpose for, I would focus more on lines. 

My quarter horse cross has sonny dee bar, as a grand sire. The breeder puts alot of emphasis on that when I looked at him. But since hes a cross, and his dam was unregistered, Im not too sure what to expect him to grow into. (Hes only 9 mo atm.) I just wanted to make sure he wasnt impressive bred, because I didnt know if i could get him test in time, and still have the breeder hold him for me. 

Breeding is VERY important if you are looking for a national, or international champion or when you are putting alot of $$ down on a horse. But for me, I just like to make sure the parents have no genetic or conformational problems.


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## roro (Aug 14, 2009)

People don't buy a horse for the bloodlines, they buy the horse because the bloodlines made a good horse. I have a horse with very good bloodlines and I can say that an incredible sire and dam usually lead to an incredible horse. A horse with lower quality parents is more likely to be lower quality. I'm a little confused on what kind of reply the OP is looking for so I'm keeping things brief.


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## Kansasbarrelracer (Sep 30, 2009)

Spastic_Dove said:


> My brain hurts.


 

HA HA agreed


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## sillybunny11486 (Oct 2, 2009)

> People don't buy a horse for the bloodlines


HA. Have to disagree to an extent. What about all those unproven brood mares, some of them have never even been broke to ride. They are usually bought purely for lines. Sometimes they are quite sway backed, or maybe even only be pasture sound.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

sillybunny11486 said:


> HA. Have to disagree to an extent. What about all those unproven brood mares, some of them have never even been broke to ride. They are usually bought purely for lines. Sometimes they are quite sway backed, or maybe even only be pasture sound.


Read the rest of her statement to understand the point she was making.


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## sillybunny11486 (Oct 2, 2009)

read it the first time. 

People do buy on bloodlines alone. We have a mare at our barn, who has 14+ racing foals, put together all wrong. No one sees the mare, sometime the foals are bought before birth.

People also buy foals with great lines, but crappy conformation they hope they will grow out of it, if not they become breeding stock.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

some people buy on bloodlines alone because of the horses bloodlines are more likely to produce. 

Of course there are horses out there that are put together like a trainwreck and people blind enough to buy them, but well-bred horses are generally less of a risk.


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## buddy09 (Nov 15, 2009)

i dont get why some people buy the foals before they are even born it seems kinda stupid to me but what do i no right


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

buddy09 said:


> i dont get why some people buy the foals before they are even born it seems kinda stupid to me but what do i no right


I don't think it's much different from breeding a mare, only difference is you don't have to worry about taking care of the mare, breeding, etc. If you like the dam and you like the stud, seems like there's not that big of a difference. 

Would I do it? Nope. I like to know exactly what I'm buying before I sign the cheque. Then again, I would buy rather than breed anyway right now.


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## buddy09 (Nov 15, 2009)

yea i would rather breed the mare right now to, i dont know if you read the post from Kanasbarrelracer in my forum titled - What do you think about em 

She/he made the point of one of her last posts to say that i was spoiled rotten, well thats what i got from it anyways, but im not rich just because i have nice horses it really annoys me because she/he is just like the people at the shows that i go to that wont talk to me because my horses beat their the only difference is that she/he is a adult not a 13 year old


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## Kansasbarrelracer (Sep 30, 2009)

First of all, don't even include me in this. Yes I'm an adult. I did not say you were spoiled rotten, I simply said that you have money to go out and buy the best stock out there.

And no I'm not at all like those "people" at your horse shows. you don't even know me, my personality, or how I ride so don't judge me


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## buddy09 (Nov 15, 2009)

im not sayin you said that i just said that, thats how it came off as to me and just disregard that last part i guess i dont know you that well


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## roro (Aug 14, 2009)

Spastic_Dove said:


> Read the rest of her statement to understand the point she was making.


That is very sound advice 
I think a lot of this thread is clouded up by communication errors, I'm really not able to pinpoint exactly what this thread is meant to debate about.


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## buddy09 (Nov 15, 2009)

i was just asking about what people thought about the horses not the boys


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

buddy09 said:


> i dont get why some people buy the foals before they are even born it seems kinda stupid to me but what do i no right


B/C it is less expensive. I sell embryos out of my mares. Depending on the stallion the buyer picks they can end up saving 50% or more plus they get to foal out the mare and raise the foal. I do it b/c I still make a good amount of money on the deal and I am not out my mare or I can breed her and get a foal for myself.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

buddy09 said:


> but what do i no right


Right.


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## buddy09 (Nov 15, 2009)

um okay that was kinda a joke kevin but whatever if you feel that way


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

i never thought breeding mattered very much until i started training ponies for hunters. talk about already knowing how to jump & do lead changes...all the ponies with great lines bred for hunters just knew their job, the ponies not well bred were a bit more difficult. not saying that poorly bred/unregistered horses are bad, i dont believe that at all.


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## buddy09 (Nov 15, 2009)

i know that another thing with breeding thats is interesting that some horses with lines for something like my horse "Me"(Color Me Crazie) is bred for barrels and roping and it seems like when i take Me into the arena she all ready knows what to do.


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

Buddy,
I strongly suggest that you pick up a book or two on bloodlines and maybe even the story of Hank Wiescamp or Walter Merrick or other people that have contributed soooo much to the breeds and you may learn to "No" something.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

...One second you think bloodlines are pointless and the next you are talking about the benefits of well-bred horses?

I'm lost.


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## buddy09 (Nov 15, 2009)

well i dont really care bout them but i know that they do have an impact on the horse


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

Not caring and having "Knowledge" are two VERY different things.

If you don't care then why bring up the subject in the first place.


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## chesterh (Jul 6, 2009)

I just read every bazaar post in this thread. It really comes down to this: Why in the hell are we taking time to argue with an ignorant 13 year old? Honestly, speaking on all our behalfs, I think our time is far more valuable than this. Save it for her next silly, immature thread.


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## reining girl (Jan 30, 2009)

i so completly agree!!!!! Cheterh. it wouldnt suprise me if this is another one of those "kids" who just come in here and make stuff up saying they have this and that, have this incredible horse and bla bla bla bla, seem to be getting alot of those latley. UGH


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## chesterh (Jul 6, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> Right.


Dude, Kevin, you crack me up. Seriously.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

chesterh said:


> I just read every bazaar post in this thread. It really comes down to this: Why in the hell are we taking time to argue with an ignorant 13 year old? Honestly, speaking on all our behalfs, I think our time is far more valuable than this. Save it for her next silly, immature thread.


You are completely right...

Ya, now that I think about it, it *was* a huge waste of time to post on here or even take the time to look back on here more than once, don't I feel kind of silly....


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## buddy09 (Nov 15, 2009)

chesterh i asked why some people think that bloodlines are soo important not to have an arguement about it!


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## Fowl Play (Sep 22, 2009)

I'm pretty new to the horse thing, but I'm very familiar with the pedigree of labradors, and the importance of them. I'm sure that horses carry some genetic "defects" or disorders that are best if they're never passed on. Labradors have a ton (EIC, hip/elbow displasia, PRA, TVD, CNM...). All of these are a result of careless breeding. All can be avoided if breeders tested their dogs for these diseases/disorders and bred to a dog that had a complimentary test result. In addition to diseases/disorders, structure is also a result of breeding. My black lab male has a horrible back end. Had his breeder found a stud that had a strong rearend that complimented the bitches, hip problems in the future could probably be avoided. Things like coat, tail set, bone structure, etc can also be corrected with careful breeding.

Then there is the issue with purpose. I have field labs: Mine are hunters and compete in hunt tests. I don't want a dog that is hugely boned, heavily statured because they cannot hold up to the work asked of them. Just the same, a breeder who focuses on the show ring does not want a dog that is lean and tall like mine. I'm certain the same is true in horses. Knowing the horses in the pedigree can tell a person a lot. I'm sure that some horses produce foals that are extremely trainable (or vice versa) or produce certain colors, or physically are designed for a particular discipline. If you are buying a horse for barrels, it probably wouldn't make sense to buy one that has a pedigree that was full of horses built for jumping, right? 

I read through all the posts in this thread out of curiousity. It's entertaining. At the same time though, it shows a need to learn more. The age of the original poster is very evident here. She's young, and obviously needs to learn a lot more about the animals in her care. She owes it to the animals. To be honest...we all do.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Another one closed!


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