# Conformation of 4 year old draft x



## disastercupcake (Nov 24, 2012)

She has slightly less bone than id expect from a draft cross, and i do think she will grow. Whether she levels out or not i could not say. She has a lovely shoulder and good neck, slightly long back and weak hindquarters. All pretty typical of her type.

Overall, i like her and i think shed do a good job for what you want.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KarlaD (Dec 29, 2013)

I pretty much agree with disastercupcake. She is a nice mare, a bit croup high right now. Has she just turned 4 this year? She should level out. She does have a lovely neck and shoulder. It would be nice to see a video of her moving!

From what I can see I think you would be happy with her. Dressage work also improves any horse. She looks well worth putting the time into.


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## amigoboy (Feb 14, 2014)

Pony360 said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I am looking for some conformation critique on a 4 year old spotted draft x tbI am interested in. I am looking to do dressage with her. Do you think she will be suitable? Do you think she will grow more? I am concerned that she looks downhill. Thanks you everyone.


Evedently she´s a slow grower, hopefully the front will catch up with the back, can be the reason her hind quarters are so far back.

She´s pointing with the left fore, seems to be favoring the right, have that checked out.


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## CandyCanes (Jul 1, 2013)

I hate to say it, but that hind end will not help her at all in dressage. She will find it extremely hard to collect. If you want a dressage prospect, I would pass this horse by.


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## Pony360 (Feb 23, 2014)

*Video*

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I have a video but its not great. She is such a doll, this was her first time in a arena ever and first time ridden in 4 months. The goose bump rump did concern me and I was thinking maybe with the right work I could help her strengthen enough to get to 2nd level?

P2130054 - YouTube


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## Renip (Oct 25, 2013)

I just have to say on love her colour!! Very pretty mare.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tryst (Feb 8, 2012)

I think she should make second level, I would not expect exceptional scores. While her hind end may fill out, the structure will not change. I think she will remain downhill.


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## Dehda01 (Jul 25, 2013)

She is cute but you will most likely be fighting her short neck, upright shoulder, weak croup and goose-rump. She takes more after the draft side, than the tb side, and she will have difficulty collecting her and engaging her back end. That said, a good mind is lovely to work with, and she may grow out of some of those traits slightly.... She looks like she will be a good sport.

And remember she is going to grey fully out, so don't let her current color sway you.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Honestly, I'm in the camp that thinks her front end will catch up with her hind end.

She sure is eyecatching with that pretty color <3


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## kiltsrhott (Mar 11, 2012)

4 is young. I agree with those who say she has a lot of growing and changing to do still. I bought my draft cross when she had just turned 5. She seemed fine when I bought her, and well balanced. She needed some muscle tone but she wasn't running down hill and her shoulder was relatively petite. A few months after I bought her she became super butt-high, and lop-sided. I had to have corrective hoof-trimming done because one hind leg was suddenly longer than the other. All I could think was "Oh no! What did I just buy?!" Thankfully, she only took another 8 months or so to level out again. She didn't reach her current height until she was almost 7 years old. She was 16.2 hands when I bought her as a 5 year old and now she measures between 17 and 17.1. I have found that the big guys can be late bloomers and a lot can change between 4 and 8 years of age.

Her general structure should remain the same, but I think her shoulder will catch up and she should level out. For being green I don't think she's tracking up too badly. There's no telling what some proper riding and conditioning, and some time to mature will do for this mare. She's already not a bad looking horse and time and conditioning will only improve things.

Though you do need to consider your goals. I don't think this mare is super high caliber. Watching the video, she's fairly average in the ways he moves. She certainly won't be taking you to grand prix, and if you have high aspirations then a well-bred warmblood with a family history of successful dressage mounts may be a better option, but if you are content to have fun at the lower levels and see how far this horse takes you, I think you should go for it!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

she is what she is, and it's not like a warmblood. But if that's the first ride in an arena, and first in 4 months, I think you've got yourself a nice mare. if you change your mind, let me know.


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## Pony360 (Feb 23, 2014)

Thank you everyone for your thoughts, you have been very helpful! I found out her Sire, the spotted draft is 16.2h so maybe she will grow a bit more in the front (she is about 16h in the rear now). I guess I should have specified that I would just be doing training, 1st and possibly 2nd level dressage with her. She is quiet as can be but still forward and is such a sweetheart and comes from a very reputable trainer. As a nervous rider, she seems to fit what I need. I am seriously considering taking her on a lease to buy.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

she may be a nice horse to have around, but an athlete she is not. She is very down hill in build. Note the line at her feet is nearly level but the line from point of buttock to root of neck is very down hill. Her shoulder is ok but she won't have the reach in front for dressage (and you won't get her weight on her hind quarters anyway because she is down hill.. so that too will limit her reach in front). 

Her hind leg is not the best. First we start with a peak of croup too far back and behind a long, weak coupling. Her croup is very steep and the stifle is placed too far to the rear.. resulting in an over straight hind leg. The distance from point of buttock to stifle is short with the stifle placed to the rear like that. 

She has a draft horse body and rear leg.. on legs that are a bit light (from the Thoroughbred side of things)

She probably gets her sweet unflappable nature from her draft horse side and she would be a good horse to learn on, but not a good horse for dressage. She will be near impossible to get balanced to the rear (downhill build) and if you do get her there she will lack power from the over straight hind leg. She won't reach pretty on her extended trot do to the lack of power behind, her downhill build and her shoulder. 

Could be a GREAT horse to learn a lot from.


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## Pony360 (Feb 23, 2014)

Elana said:


> she may be a nice horse to have around, but an athlete she is not. She is very down hill in build. Note the line at her feet is nearly level but the line from point of buttock to root of neck is very down hill. Her shoulder is ok but she won't have the reach in front for dressage (and you won't get her weight on her hind quarters anyway because she is down hill.. so that too will limit her reach in front).
> 
> Her hind leg is not the best. First we start with a peak of croup too far back and behind a long, weak coupling. Her croup is very steep and the stifle is placed too far to the rear.. resulting in an over straight hind leg. The distance from point of buttock to stifle is short with the stifle placed to the rear like that.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your input! I am concerned about her being downhill but am I being optimistic thinking she may level out because she is still growing? I know a few people who own draft crosses that grew until they were 7 years old.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I actually like her and think she'd be great for low level dressage and a lovely 'fun' horse as well
The Spotted Draft shouldn't really be called 'draft' at all because they're only half draft - don't know what this mare is a mix of but given that bit of draft blood in her that always seems to make them late maturers I think she will grow some into those quarters and not look so downhill in a years time
My Irish Draft is very downhill but competed successfully in low level dressage and works in a nice collected frame without a huge amount of effort to pick her front end up
Yes you will have to work a bit harder on her than you might on a breed that's been purpose bred for dressage but unless you have ambitions to go to the top and can afford the price tag that goes with it then a horse like this will probably give you more pleasure because her breeding should make her a more straightforward horse to ride and own
A Gypsy Cob was the British Novice Dressage Champion last year.


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## Pony360 (Feb 23, 2014)

Good point jaydee. I should have mentioned she is crossed with a thoroughbred, both of her parents are registered and seem to be well bred. She is in my price range and I am not scared of her which is huge for me (I am a big chicken ). 

I guess why I am so interested in her is because I have seen so many people buy fancy dressage prospects and they are too scared to ride them because they are too spooky, forward etc. My riding falls apart as soon as I feel nervous.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I forget--do you already own her, or are you looking to purchase her?


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## Pony360 (Feb 23, 2014)

Zexious said:


> I forget--do you already own her, or are you looking to purchase her?


I am taking her on trial, looking to purchase her if the trial goes well.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Having a horse you feel confident with is IMO more important for you right now than having one that's going to be competing at top level in any dressage competition in a months time
What's the breeding on the Spotted Draft side of her, Percheron x Paint seems to be quite common in the lineage?


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## Pony360 (Feb 23, 2014)

jaydee said:


> Having a horse you feel confident with is IMO more important for you right now than having one that's going to be competing at top level in any dressage competition in a months time
> What's the breeding on the Spotted Draft side of her, Percheron x Paint seems to be quite common in the lineage?


Her Sire is spotted draft x spotted draft but if I got back another generation, there is 3/4 spotted draft and 1/4 percheron. Interesting!


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## kiltsrhott (Mar 11, 2012)

I figured I would share this to make you feel better.










This is my horse. The first photo was taken when she was 5. The second photo was taken when she was 8. I drew on them to indicate hip and shoulder angle and center of balance. My reference points may not be perfect but I was at least consistent between the two photos, so if you see a change, it should be real. The purple lines are both horozontal lines just placed on top of the hip. You can see how Ursula's wither falls under her hip in the first photo and her wither is pretty well level in the second. Her center of balance levels out as well, and her hip angle changes. The hips could be rotated a bit between the two photos due to the way she's standing, but there is still a difference there. She has definitely been carrying her hind legs naturally more underneath herself as she's matured. Whether it's due to growth or just muscle development and training, that's anyone's guess. Regardless, my horse looks much better now that she's mature than she did when she was still growing. The horse you're considering should do the same.


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## Pony360 (Feb 23, 2014)

Wow your mare is beautiful- thank you for posting those pictures, they do make me feel better! I can see in the top picture, her body build is similar to the mare I am looking at, I guess she does still have some growing and filling out to do.


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## Pony360 (Feb 23, 2014)

I just realized that she is only 3.5 years old which actually concerns me because she was broke over a year ago. Sounds like she has only been ridden a dozen or so times but should I still be concerned?


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Personally I hate the fact that she was broke early, a big girl like this should really be allowed to mature slowly. Definitely need to have a long chat with the owner and a PPE done.

BTW where is that barn? I'm moving in:wink:


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I don't like that they break these big horses so young - because they look well grown in appearance - but if you aren't heavy and she didn't do much work I don't think its going to be a major worry.
If you do decide to have her then just bring her on really slowly
Our Clyde x was sold as a 4 yr old but her teeth say she's at least a year maybe nearly 2 years younger than she's supposed to be.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

IMO no matter how nice she is to ride she is too green for you considering your fears and concerns. You really need a horse about 14-20 years old that has been there and done that. A retired but sound show horse would be perfect.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

If she's only had a couple rides it's not huge. Not good but wouldn't freak too much.

Just had to comment.. is that their BARN???? Looks like what I'd expect from a garage in a mansion. WOW. Much nicer than my apartment! 

I have a new dream barn...<3


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

A young horse with a good attitude and good grounding that hasn't been spoilt by a series of mediocre homes & riders can often be better behaved so I don't see the age as such a big negative especially if the OP is going to be keeping it at a barn with good trainers and facilities on hand


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## morganarab94 (May 16, 2013)

I'm in agreement with Jaydee. If you feel confident on her and you work well together that is much more important (in my thinking) than buying a expensive fancy horse that you would be afraid to ride. I would get her, she's young and still has filling out to do. As far as age, if you have a good trainer and place to work with her at then that's not a huge concern as long as she has good manners.
I personally love her and would take her in a heartbeat.:lol:

Oh and that barn...wow...so gorgeous!!!:mrgreen:


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## Pony360 (Feb 23, 2014)

Thanks everyone. I guess I should have specified that I am not a beginner rider but just a nervous person in general and I have to agree with the fact that a 20 year old ex-show horse doesn't mean they are good for a nervous rider. I have seen on many occasions a 3rd level school master throw a good buck and bolt while the five year old the ring stands there half asleep


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Well if you aren't a beginner and have people to work with and feel comfortable with her, that's definitely something to consider!


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## Pony360 (Feb 23, 2014)

Thank you everyone! I have found out some more positive things about her history and have decided to take her on trial and just hope to god she levels out (please cross your fingers for me!). Her temperament is just too special to pass by and her owner and trainer have been such a pleasure to deal with.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Fingers are crossed that she'll level out for you. I won't venture a guess either way. She might level out or she might not. Even if she does, like Elana said, she'll likely never be a _great_ dressage horse simply because of that hind end. That butt is built for pulling, not collecting :wink:.

That said, I also agree that a horse with a good nature is a wonderful animal to have, even if they don't quite have the training level yet. I've got a coming 5 draft cross that has that same temperament. His favorite speed is asleep and I wouldn't trade him for the world. With a bit more time and consistent work, he'll be a great kid-catcher or beginner horse.

HOWEVER, the downside to that mellow and relaxed temperament is that those horses are often difficult to get supple and responsive. I had he** trying to get my guy to actually respond to leg without having to over-under him with the bridle reins. When he was greener, if you sat deep and asked for a stop, he'd plant his butt and stand in that spot for hours without moving, but getting him to lope off from a walk without 200 yards of trot and whipping between? Good luck LOL.

Just so I don't worry you much about that, he's a lot better about responding now and he's half Belgian, which tend to be even more laid back than Percherons. Percheron's are like the Arabs of the draft world. They are the ones with more fire and spunk generally.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Good luck - I hope you'll come back and update us with progress. Please!!!


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## Pony360 (Feb 23, 2014)

*I have hope*

Ya the hind end is not ideal but I have hope! Check out this guy go, he seems to have not the best hind end either. I guess I am just up for the challenge. I will post some updates later, hopefully they will be positive


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## morganarab94 (May 16, 2013)

Please keep us updated with a lot of pictures.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Pony360 said:


> Thank you everyone! I have found out some more positive things about her history and have decided to take her on trial and just hope to god she levels out (please cross your fingers for me!). Her temperament is just too special to pass by and her owner and trainer have been such a pleasure to deal with.


Well it doesn't sound like you're planning on the '16 Olympics (pardon me if you are ) so at the end of the day all that matters is you have the perfect horse for YOU. I do think she will level out somewhat, but either way she's not downhill to a fault (you see some horses that literally look like they're standing on a hill!) and while it will be a disadvantage for dressage if you aren't planning on being competitive and love your horse and are willing to work with what she has there is absolutely nothing wrong with that!! I think overall this mare is nicely built, I have the feeling started right (overall, not just with riding), has a great temperament, has a great facility willing to work with you, and YOU CLICK WITH HER. Great go get her! lol. I am glad you are doing a trial, please keep us updated


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## Impressa (Mar 3, 2014)

*i agree with the color.*



Renip said:


> I just have to say on love her colour!! Very pretty mare.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Very unique.


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## Pony360 (Feb 23, 2014)

*My promised update*

Hi Everyone, I promised an update so here it is. 

The timing wasn't right financially to purchase this mare and my coach did not approve of her either. Everything happens for a reason and I ended up with another mare who has been perfect in every way. She just turned 5 and is a Friesian x Paint. I am happy I bought a greenie because I am learning a TON and she is so level headed which has really helped with my confidence.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

Lovely mare!
Interesting cross.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

She is certainly a looker, how big is her movement?


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## Pony360 (Feb 23, 2014)

Thank you! Her movement isn't bad but nothing fancy. Walk is her best gait followed by canter. I am glad its not fancy because I am not a good enough rider to sit on a big mover 

Here is our fourth ride together. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2OKHAzG9uY


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

She has a super cute trot!


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## CrossCountry (May 18, 2013)

Holy cow, what a gorgeous mare!


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## Pony360 (Feb 23, 2014)

Her canter is my favourite. Still learning to sit to it though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEMd7MzSP-M


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

Holy smokes (drools)... you have good taste in horses! I liked the first mare a lot, and I LOVE the second mare, very good choice!!! Looking forward to updates.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Nice, I like


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

The second mare, the one you ended up with, is A LOT better than the first one. I did not like the first one, especially as a dressage horse.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Lovely! Such a nice mover too, looks so comfy.

You do have a good taste. Especially with a greenie, mindset is EVERYTHING.

Congrats!


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## Pony360 (Feb 23, 2014)

Thank you everyone! 

Purchasing a horse was definitely something new for me. I learned a lot, had a lot of generous help from experienced people and definitely had some luck on my side.


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