# TWH canter?



## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

That is how big-lick TWH canter. Perhaps he used to be one. The rear end has to leave time for the ridiculously large front shoes to be thrown out of the way by the front legs.

My Sissy was a BL shoe horse as a 3 year old, but does not retain that weird canter.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Even not trained Big Lick, TWH horses often canter oddly. They will do much better if sped up, not slowed down. The can gallop with the best of them.


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## dogpatch (Dec 26, 2017)

I'm no TWH expert, just an owner for about 2 years of a TWH that needed a lot of patient help to get over pacing. She still lets me know from time to time how difficult she thinks "correct" gaiting is. I've got a really nice book on gaited horses and the author indicates the ability to canter in gaited horses is individual to the horse. Some just cannot canter at all. My girl would need a whole lot of work to learn how to canter united. She may do so for two strides, then will switch in the back and crossfire. It is clearly difficult for her. 



Perhaps it truly is a struggle at this stage for the horse in question to canter. When my mare "got gait" she could only sustain it for very short distances before falling apart. She does much better now but could use a lot more conditioning than I am able to give her.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

dogpatch said:


> I'm no TWH expert, just an owner for about 2 years of a TWH that needed a lot of patient help to get over pacing. She still lets me know from time to time how difficult she thinks "correct" gaiting is. I've got a really nice book on gaited horses and the author indicates the ability to canter in gaited horses is individual to the horse. Some just cannot canter at all. My girl would need a whole lot of work to learn how to canter united. She may do so for two strides, then will switch in the back and crossfire. It is clearly difficult for her.


OK now I am curious about something else. My understanding is that most gaited horses don't trot, is that correct? And you are saying that some can't canter either? So can some of them just walk and gait, and nothing else?


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

ACinATX said:


> OK now I am curious about something else. My understanding is that most gaited horses don't trot, is that correct? And you are saying that some can't canter either? So can some of them just walk and gait, and nothing else?


Depends on the horse really. Both my TWH trot in the field and sometimes under saddle, I never trained them to do so or taught a cue for it though. Same with canter, my gelding LIVES to canter/race around, my mare, it was very challenging to get her to canter under saddle but she did it in the field. I think she was trained that cantering is a nono so it was hard to get her out of that, then help her find balance with a rider.

Sometimes VERY pacey horses benefit from teaching them how to trot, it helps them strengthen a diagonal gait instead of lateral. It really just can depend on the horse and how much effort you want to put into training other gaits imo.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

ACinATX said:


> OK now I am curious about something else. My understanding is that most gaited horses don't trot, is that correct? And you are saying that some can't canter either? So can some of them just walk and gait, and nothing else?



Tennessee Walkers are NOT supposed to trot. If they do:
1. They need a chiro adjustment.
2. Somebody who can’t ride a gaited horse has allowed the horse to trot because it’s easier and the horse has lost its gaiting muscle memory.

2.1. I grow weary of all of the claims that someone has a TWH who was born trotting and won’t do anything else.

It’s either not 100% Tennessee Walker, it hurt itself and needs adjusted.

I have had four Walking Horses and never had any trouble getting them to do their intermediate gait, unless an adjustment was needed.

Brenda Imus (RIP) was of the mindset that a horse who Step Paces can be retrained to do a running walk but I was told by a couple of old time credible breeders that “ain’t necessarily so” because step pacers are naturally hard lateral movers and their body structure is different.

I never pursued the legitimacy of that thought because Duke had a smooth-as-silk stepping pace and did not develop hock issues until his mid20’s. I asked the lameness vet if that could be blamed on him step pacing. He is well informed on TWH’s and his comment was “maybe but at Duke’s age, more likely his age.”


1. Duke was a hard lateral pacer in the pasture and did the stepping pace when being ridden.

He did one of two things in the pasture: he either paced faster than any of the other horses could canter, or he did a hard run.

He never asked to do a slow canter in hand, he always step-paced.

2. Rusty does the champagne-smooth running walk. I have seen him perform a beautiful jaw dropping true rocking horse canter at liberty, when he feels like it. He will canter and gallop in the pasture.

I looked for videos of a TWH performing a good rocking chair canter but I couldn’t find any. The all riders were forcing the canter either with their whole body, their legs, or sitting on the reins.

I’m sorry that’s not how it’s done. When I was young my Arab/Saddlebred was inclined to a slow canter. With a little work, I taught him the three beat canter and he was so good (and smooth) you could hear each footfall.

I rode him bareback - there was no sitting on the reins, or exaggerated movement of legs or body, I regret never having a video of him as he could do that rocking chair canter better than many Walking Horses.

Rusty’s at liberty canter is the closest I have ever seen to what Sonny was capable of.

It’s supposed to be effortless and the rider should not look like they are trying to do the canter themselves because the horse can’t.

3. Joker will saddle rack or run walk. He does canter or gallop at liberty.

****
So no, TWH’s should never trot. Most of them can canter but what for when they can generally out walk any horse in a slow canter. 

*That was the purpose of that intermediate gait in the first place —— to cover a lot of Southern Plantation ground quickly, while keeping the rider comfortable after hours in the saddle.
*
*People are forgetting the original purpose of a Tennessee Walker. There are some great old history videos out there. I have some original 8-track tapes that were put together and narrated by Bob Womack.
*
Provided anyone knows what 8-tracks are and who Bob Womack was


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## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

R's TWH mare Huckleberry did not understand the concept of normal horse locomotion. She had a very whiplash-inducing walk that was absolute murder to ride and would give the rider terrible upset stomach after a few minutes. Then she had her atrocious pace, which was fast but would knock the fillings out of your teeth to ride. Her stepping pace wasn't really 'correct' for a TWH but it was quite smooth to ride and for anyone who didn't know any better it was fantastic. She could keep that up all day too. 

With a bit of help (okay a lot of help) you could get her to do an actual, correct running walk that was smooth as butter and faster than the average horse's loping speed. Toward the end, with more work and a better concept of how to build up her muscle memory to do it, Miss Huckles could running walk for quite a distance and it was lovely, but for the first few years you couldn't get more than a few strides of running walk before she'd return to a stepping pace or a pace. 

She had a difficult time cantering. Much of the time she crossfired, couldn't get under herself properly on the back end, it was a hot mess. It was moderately smooth, certainly not rocking chair quality but smoother than some. Her gallop, however, was quite smooth, and FAST. She had a ground-eating stride that would take your breath away with its speed. But she needed a runway to fire that bad boy up, you couldn't gallop her in an arena and she never did figure out how to turn at a gallop, she always dropped back to her hot mess canter to turn and then would kick it into high gear once she was on the straightaway. 

She was a hoot to ride though, a heck of a trail horse with a wonderful mind, and she could go all day long without breaking a sweat.

-- Kai


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## dogpatch (Dec 26, 2017)

There is a "gait scale", where trot is at one end, hard pace is at the other, and the "intermediate" gaits like running walk, etc., are in the middle. My understanding is that any individual horse can be born nearer or farther from the extremes of trot and pace. So while either trot or pace are not desirable in a TWH, it may not have been born in the middle of the scale but lean more toward the lateral or diagonal. How that relates to canter I'm not sure, but I could look it up. 



I've read where a horse can be born capable of doing maybe a dozen different gaits, probably some without names, and may prefer some other gait than the breed ideal. The horse simply must be taught which of these many talents is the desired one. I believe that is so with my mare. Once she learned which of her gaits I wished for her to do, she pretty much defaults to that now. I haven't caught her pacing under saddle in a long time, but unless it's on an uphill slope, her gait is not necessarily brilliant. I am quite sure it could be, with more training and conditioning. But at our combined age of 87, it's not a big issue! LOL!


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Thanks everyone, this was all super informative! I didn't know that a running walk could be faster than a canter! That must be amazing to ride. I wonder if I could make friends with this lady and ask to ride her horse, LOL. But since the barn owner is trying to train that out of her, maybe I shouldn't.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

I just want to say I am so glad to see @evilamc back!


And as an owner of 3 TWH currently - all of our horses trot, all of them gait, all of them canter. A gaited horse can trot and will trot and can still gait. It's an old wives tale that says never trot or canter a gaited horse - they can and will do it and still remember how to gait.

My mare will let me know when her feet get a little long by trotting when asked to gait - my daughters mare will pace if her feet are too long and my husbands horse was foundered by a previous owner and prefers to gait over trot - but will trot when asked to gait too fast.

And they all love a good canter - even on the trail, my mare's canter is like riding a jack rabbit - bounding forward, my daugthers mare has a slow even canter and so does my hubbies mare.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

carshon said:


> st want to say I am so glad to see @evilamc back!
> 
> It's an old wives tale that says never trot or canter a gaited horse - they can and will do it and still remember how to gait.


Never trot under saddle is not an old wives tale amongst we old time trail riders, lollol

If I wanted to ride a trotting horse, I would have stuck with trotting horses. I absolutely would never allow a Walking Horse to trot under saddle. Foxtrotters is another matter

Walking Horses were further developed when plantation owners, of the Antebellum pre-civil war south discovered how smooth a ride their intermediate gait was, enabling the rider to cover ground quickly without cantering and without bouncing - hence the later term “the glide ride”:smile:

Cantering IS allowed but I personally have always been a “smell the roses” kind of rider, even as a kid. I don’t want to travel hither, thither, and yon at a canter or gallop. And why should I, when the Walking Horses I know can outwalk many cantering horses


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

I understand what you are saying @Walkin but how the breed was developed and the horses we are riding now are completely different. So trot and gait are pretty common for those that ride gaited horses now.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

carshon said:


> I understand what you are saying @Walkin but how the breed was developed and the horses we are riding now are completely different. So trot and gait are pretty common for those that ride gaited horses now.


It would seem to so:frown_color:

However, I still hold out hope for the traditional with those breeders who are trying to preserve the old time Walkers through their “Heritage” breeding programs:cowboy::cowboy:


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## SwissMiss (Aug 1, 2014)

ACinATX said:


> I didn't know that a running walk could be faster than a canter! That must be amazing to ride.


It _is_ really fun! Just did that yesterday again. Other rider was cantering her mustang mare (it was windy, so speed was a little more _uninhibited_ than usual :wink and Raya just flew by her side in a smooth as silk paso llano. She does canter/gallop at liberty, but was never allowed to canter under saddle when trained...


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

Hiiiii Carshon! I've been lurking lately, just not really posting lol!

I believe for endurance riders riding gaited horses they do train their horses to trot under saddle just so during a long ride they can work different muscles? Granted I'd prefer my walkers not trot while Im riding, I like the smooth ride haha so I correct them if they do, but I don't care if they do in the field.

This was a few weeks ago at Hocking Hills in Ohio, Jax (the pinto colored twh I'm on) doesn't let anyone beat him lol!! I never really got his running walk as fast as other horses canters, I always just have let him canter. Im sure if I worked on it I could though.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

that looks like so much fun! I can't let my mare canter too much on the trail - she is very strong in the bridle and will race whatever through whatever and is hard to stop!


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

My TWH has a lovely canter. He usually goes at about 15 mph and it is like sitting in a rocking chair. He can canter much faster if asked. 

Some horses are trained not to canter. TWH's that are shown as racking horses are an example. Racing trotters are an example. But unless they are lame, all horses can canter. 

I will say that a TWH that has not cantered a lot under saddle will occasionally throw in an odd gait that is between a running walk and a canter. I call it "broken washing machine". 

If somebody doesn't want a running walk and a nice canter, I don't see why they would buy a TWH.


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## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

I too think the owner of this horse is doing themselves and the horse a disservice by training the gait the horse is known for out of the horse. Why on earth would you buy a TWH and then train the running walk out of the horse? Just buy a regular gaited horse if you don't want to running walk. If I hated the foxtrot there's no way I'd buy a foxtrotter. You know why I've never purchased a thoroughbred? Because I don't want to go anywhere at maximum warp. To a certain degree, you can train any horse in the world to do anything you like - but why fight the horse's nature every step of the way to get you there? 

I would never make a champion saddleseat horse out of Dreams no matter how hard I tried, he just doesn't have the movement for it - and while I barrel raced Thunder twice, I never expected anything close to a competitive score from a draft. I think this lady is making a mistake in discouraging this TWH's natural gait. If she doesn't want to ride a running walk she should sell the horse to someone who does, before the horse's gait is ruined and the horse is no longer desirable to people in either camp. 

-- Kai


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Kaifyre said:


> I too think the owner of this horse is doing themselves and the horse a disservice by training the gait the horse is known for out of the horse. Why on earth would you buy a TWH and then train the running walk out of the horse? i


She is new to horses and apparently didn't have much experience before she got this guy. But it is the barn owner (who is also her instructor) who is trying to do this, not the owner. I have my guesses as to why, but I could be wrong, so I will keep them to myself.


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