# Paint x Percheron Coloring?



## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

The mare's picture did not load. If the stallion is homozygous black, you have a few color options. First is the 50% chance of grey, and 50% chance of the pinto gene getting passed. Now your baby will be either a black or bay, depending on the mare's agouti status.


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## yadlim (Feb 2, 2012)

Most perchs are **** for black, but there is a recessive sorrel gene in the breed. So 1/2 chance of grey. 1/2 of pinto. 

Since mom was sorrel under the grey, you can't get bay. So just black or a vague possibility of sorrel - I have only seen two pictures of sorrel perches.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Just a note, the baby wouldn't be able to be registered as a pinto. Percheron is not an accepted cross to be considered for registry. Trust me...I looked into registering my Percheron/paint gelding with the PtHA. Straight from their registration guidelines page: PtHA ? Registration


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

There is a possibility of a bay. We don't know what the mare's base color is, only that she is gray and her dam was sorrel. That leaves a multitude of possibilities. Even if the mare was also a sorrel based gray, she can carry an agouti gene without anyone knowing because agouti doesn't act on red gened horses.

Just so you know, though, breeding to a paint mare, even if she is homozygous for color, doesn't guarantee a colored foal. I've got a horse out of a similar breeding, perch stud, paint momma, and this was the outcome







.

The only white on him is a striped face and he has horrible conformation, in spite of both sire and dam being well conformed.

To be perfectly honest, you're brother would likely have better luck getting something nice if he just went out and bought what he wanted. Horses, especially grade horses, are going for a pittance. Compare spending maybe $200 for a nicely green broke half draft to hundreds in vet cost just during the pregnancy, plus the risk to the mare, plus the feed and care for an addition 3+ years before the foal is even ready to be ridden. We're talking thousands of dollars and being afoot for at least 4 years when he could go pick out the color and temperament he wanted within just a few months and be riding immediately after purchase.


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## TimberRidgeRanch (Mar 6, 2012)

Ever notice that most spotted drafts are black and white when crossed with a paint and a percheron when you have a red and white or bay and white they are usually paints crossed with belgians clyds and shires. Either you will get a black and white spotted foal or solid black.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

TimberRidgeRanch said:


> Ever notice that most spotted drafts are black and white when crossed with a paint and a percheron when you have a red and white or bay and white they are usually paints crossed with belgians clyds and shires. Either you will get a black and white spotted foal or solid black.


Not so, if the non Percheron horse passes an agouti, you will not get a black. The agouti controls the black no matter what. A trend doesn't always hold true, I am sure you could find plenty of non black Percheron crosses when they were crossed with a red based horse. 

It is more likely that more people breed their black pintos to percherons to get black pinto crosses. IMO


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## TimberRidgeRanch (Mar 6, 2012)

If her mare is a grey pinto and she wants to breed to the black percheron stud shes going to get either a smokey black or black foal. Grey isnt a color its a ...ugh whats that word lol... anyways only way she can get another grey color is with another grey. But I would bet the foal would be black or maybe even black and white spotted ( which can be registered under NASDHA )or she may get a smokey black color. If the foal is spotted no matter what color the good lord tends it to be it can be registered with NASDHA good luck be safe Love your horses TRR


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

TimberRidgeRanch said:


> *If her mare is a grey pinto and she wants to breed to the black percheron stud shes going to get either a smokey black or black foal. Grey isnt a color its a ...ugh whats that word lol... anyways only way she can get another grey color is with another grey. But I would bet the foal would be black or maybe even black and white spotted ( which can be registered under NASDHA )or she may get a smokey black color. If the foal is spotted no matter what color the good lord tends it to be it can be registered with NASDHA good luck be safe Love your horses TRR*



No. The foal cannot be a smoky black. Neither parent has a cream gene.

Grey only needs a single gene, which means it can come from one parent, and doesn't need to be from both.


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## TimberRidgeRanch (Mar 6, 2012)

DRAFTYAIRES have you looked into registering your horse with NASDHA since he is Paint/percheron?


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## Left Hand Percherons (Feb 1, 2011)

TimberRidgeRanch said:


> *DRAFTYAIRES have you looked into registering your horse with NASDHA since he is Paint/percheron?*


Can't do it. The Spotted Draft Association has had a closed stud book for a number of years. The Pinto Draft Association is allowing outsiders.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Chiilaa is correct. With the colors of the sire and dam we have available, the options are sorrel (not likely and only a chance if the perch stud is heterozygous for black, which is rare), black, or bay, each with a 50% chance of going gray.

Gray is a modifier and it is dominant. It doesn't hide. The mare is heterozygous for it since one parent was a non-gray, therefore, she has a 50% chance of passing on the gene. If the foal were to be born with even one copy of the gray gene, then it would be gray.

While there is a _slight_ possiblity of the foal being smoky black or buckskin (only if the dam is either a buckskin or a palomino underneath her gray), it is unlikely.


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## TrailxxRider (Feb 13, 2012)

Hmm, Idk if this helps at all, but the mare was registered as a red roan overo paint as a yearling, then turned grey. This is a photo of her dad, and EVERY one on his side going back three generations is listed as sorrel overo. Most of the horses on her mom's side are listed as Tailwind bred, but only say QH underneath, no colors. The guy with the percheron only breeds for black.


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

The foal might be able to be registered with the American Warmblood Society?? Maybe?


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Yep, that means the only options for base colors are either black or bay, depending on whether the mare carries agouti or not.

Whether or not she's actually a roan or whether they listed her as roan due to her markings makes me wonder though. I don't know a ton about the paint patterns, but her sire looks like he's carrying sabino too, which can cause pretty extensive roaning.

If she carries the actual roan gene, then she also has a 50% chance of throwing a bay/blue roan.


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## TrailxxRider (Feb 13, 2012)

I have pics of her as a baby, and she was roan. I'm not sure if she's still considered roan or not. In the winter her grey fades completely and she looks pure white, with only a litle grey in her mane and tail. Isn't changing color drastically a trait of roan coloring? She looks like a completely different horse in summer and winter.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

could you post a foal pic of her?


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## TrailxxRider (Feb 13, 2012)

I could try to take a picture of one of the old photos, I dont have a scanner.


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