# DEBATE: Children On Leashes



## Whispering Meadows (Apr 30, 2009)

My boyfriend and I had an incident the other day with a woman and her son (approx 3 yrs/old) who she had on a leash. But she had him on more then just a leash, she had him tied to a table. Long story short, neither I nor my boyfriend think putting your child on a leash is right, and them up takes the whole leash idea to a whole 'nother level.

My personal opinion is, if you cant discipline your child to behave (without a leash) then you shouldn't have children. They aren't a pet to put on a leash and/or tie up.

But thats MY opinion.

Whats yours?

Open for DEBATE only 

P.S. the ONLY thing I would consider a good reason to have a leash on your child for is if your a grandparent who is too old to keep up with a youngster but you want to take your grandchildren out to the mall or something.


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## Crimsonhorse01 (Sep 8, 2009)

I wish I had a leash. For me its my daughter wants to move. I don't let her get away from stuff but she is Very strong willed. Id rather have her on a leash so I can look at what im looking at at the store and not have to worry about a runaway or someone sneaking and taking my blue eyed babe.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Meh, keep the little nippers leashed! :wink:

Seriously, the 'kid leash' was all the rage for awhile. Parents could keep track of multiple little ones, and it was harder for a predator to snatch one when they were attached to a parent.

It also makes it easier for the parents because children are small, agile and FAST, and can get away from parental clutches easily. I'm sure more than one parent has had a heart-stopping moment when their offspring disappears into a crowd of people.

I like 'em. I liked 'em when they were in fashion, and I'd like to see them come back into fashion.

Kids have minds of their own, and don't always obey their parents. That's nothing new, and has been going on since the dawn of time. Especially the smaller ones, because their cognitive functions are pretty low, and their whole world pretty much revolves around themselves. 

It has little to nothing to do with 'control' if a child darts away from a parent. Kids don't think that someone might snatch them; all they're thinking about is what FUN it is to run away from Mommy!


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I have three boys and the first two I could keep track of and control pretty easily but the last one is fast as lightning and quiet as a mouse. After losing track of him several times my wife bought a harness and leash for him. We don't have to put it on him now because he understands about staying close and holding hands in teh parking lot but it kept him safe until he could understand and obey.

Think about this post when you have kids and you won't feel like that woman is all that bad. It doesn't take old age to slow you down. If you have an armful of groceries or if your attention is drawn away for a second by another kid you can lose track of a child and an accident can happen. And 3 yo are FAST.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

My mom had leashes for my brothers. (Identicle twins). There were four of us all together. I remember the twins were about three when she got the leashes, she'd put them on them in the commisary and the PX. My brother was 9, I was 6, and the twins were 3. That's a lot of kids for one person to look after while she's trying to buy groceries.

I had a leash for my son when he was about 3ish. I remember the first time I was going to use it, we were going to the mall and he said, I'm a dog? I took it right off and never used it. BUT, just one kid is even hard to watch. I remember we were at walmart once and it was me, my husband and my son, he was about 2 at the time. We were all together, he darted behind a shoe rack and we went straight for him and he was GONE. That quick. He had doubled back or gone under a clothes rack or something. We had to get them to call a Code Adam and had the entire store searching. Found him in the purse section shopping for a bag.

I am not against leashes, or strollers or emergency beepers (I have one, it go's on his shoe and if I can't find him, I push a button and an alarm sounds). Before you have children you see things and you think:

"that kid is WAY to big for a stroller" or "I would never carry my kid when he's that old" or "My kid will never behave that way". And then you have a kid and things change. Your thoughts, your opinions... and amazingly you grow a huge patients. You don't see yourself standing in line and thinking "somebody smack that kid!", now you see yourself laughing at some other womens childs antics. And when you see a really filthy kid in a shopping cart with holes in his knees, you don't think things like "Give the kid a bath and buy him some clothes". You think more like, "Man that kid has had a good day!" and maybe something, "He's going to leave a ring in the tub"...


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I love them. Why? Because I do not want to have to deal with other people's kids when I am out and about.

Small children can move quickly and do not think first. I do not care how much teaching a parent does, a small child is still quick and small. Think about it, they can dart under the clothes racks that us big people have to go around.

My friend had no problems with her daughter but when her son starting being mobile on his own she had to invest in a leash. It was cute, it looked like a back pack with a long tail.


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

I think anyone who is against a leash has never had kids to watch. 
My only problem with them is they give a false sense of security to a parent. A predator can remove the leash in a crowd if your not paying attention. 
And no I don't have kids but I spent lots of time with my niece when she was a tot. I used a leash whenever we were in a situation where I couldn't carry her. 
With the world as scary as it is, a leash on a child is secondary to hearing an Amber/Adam alert.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

farmpony84 said:


> Before you have children you see things and you think:"that kid is WAY to big for a stroller" or "I would never carry my kid when he's that old" or "My kid will never behave that way". And then you have a kid and things change. Your thoughts, your opinions... and amazingly you grow a huge patients. You don't see yourself standing in line and thinking "somebody smack that kid!", now you see yourself laughing at some other womens childs antics. And when you see a really filthy kid in a shopping cart with holes in his knees, you don't think things like "Give the kid a bath and buy him some clothes". You think more like, "Man that kid has had a good day!" and maybe something, "He's going to leave a ring in the tub"...


Exactly!

All the things I swore that when I had kids, MY kids would never do..... been there, watched them do them all!  Included a rather memorable kicking, screaming, flailing tantrum in the middle of Target that resulted in a dislocated elbow and 6 hours spent sitting in the ER.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

I am all for leashes!!

It is just too easy to lose track of kids in crowds, leaving them vulnerable to predators.

Are you against lead lines for your horses? They can be easily distracted and wander off too.


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## Lucara (Apr 5, 2008)

I had a leash when I was younger and to be honest, I would use on my child. It only takes a second for them to disappear, especially in theme parks or high foot traffic areas. I would prefer to have people glare at me and know my child is safe, than to take the chance of my child going missing.

There was an incident not too long ago at our Publix where someones kid liked to hide and went missing. We spent an hour looking for him, had the cops all over the place hunting and you know where he was? Hiding behind the toilet paper on the shelf. 
Someone could have just as easily snatched him up and no one would have known.


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## TaMMa89 (Apr 12, 2008)

Never seen one and after googling found them are pretty unusual but not totally unprecedented here.

Honestly, for me putting a child on a leash like an animal raises some questions about human dignity and it how the child experiences the leash. I wouldn't at least tie my child to a table, especially if I left the place myself (I see you didn't tell if that woman who tied her son to a table was there with him or if she didn't).

Anyways, I see also the point about extremely lively kids and/or dangerous situations with children. I'd prefer a leash to a warrant or a funeral procession any time, of course.

So I think I'd personally go for a leash only if it was extremely needed. Situations like walking in a huge crowd or along a highway with a very lively kid would be like that.


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## Whispering Meadows (Apr 30, 2009)

Vidaloco said:


> *I think anyone who is against a leash has never had kids to watch. *
> My only problem with them is they give a false sense of security to a parent. A predator can remove the leash in a crowd if your not paying attention.
> And no I don't have kids but I spent lots of time with my niece when she was a tot. I used a leash whenever we were in a situation where I couldn't carry her.
> With the world as scary as it is, a leash on a child is secondary to hearing an Amber/Adam alert.


I beg to differ. When my sister was in the Army she was sent to Korea when her son was 3, my parents had him for six months and his other grandparents the other six months. I was still living at home as i was 11 or 12. We never put him on a leash....he has NEVER been put on a leash...he was disciplined when he misbehaved and he knew not to run off because he knew he'd get his little bottom spanked if he did. Hes 10 almost 11 now and the best kid I've ever met.

Thats just ONE example. I have been around lots of toddlers/young children...all of whom had been properly disciplined [not leashed] and knew better and didnt run off.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Goody for you!! You will feel pretty silly when you have two or more children and try to keep track of all of them.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

http://www.horseforum.com/general-off-topic-discussion/debate-spanking-children-50665/#post583053


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

I assure you, my son is one of those children people stop and stare at in the stores. People speak to each other about his "lack of discipline" or saying "that kid needs a smack" or even tossing thinly veiled insults at me. 

My son is autistic. No, it's not a disorder you can see by looking at him, there are no obvious physical signs. He also has related sensory integration dysfunction, a disorder that makes his brain get jumbled and unable to process certain visual and auditory stimuli. Flourescent lights, the type used in essentially every grocery store these days, are a huge trigger for him. Because of the way his brain works, they are visually like strobe lights to him. He can see the flicker, and it hurts his eyes and gives him headaches. When he was younger, it took only a few moments in a store before he would have sensory overload and be screaming, crying, and flailing. Oftentimes if I could let him down to walk, instead of being pushed in the cart, he could look at the floor and cope much better, however at the 1 1/2 to 2 year old range he couldn't watch the floor and watch mommy to follow at the same time. Leashes saved his life more than once at that stage, and when he was a little bit older we graduated to a transmitter/receiver set that sets off an alarm if he gets more than 10 feet from me, which we still use today, and he also wears at school.

Just try to bear in mind, next time you see a screaming child at a grocery store and feel like saying something rude to the parent about their lack of discipline. You don't always know what's going on, and your 2 second assessment of the situation might not always be accurate.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

Indyhorse said:


> Just try to bear in mind, next time you see a screaming child at a grocery store and feel like saying something rude to the parent about their lack of discipline. You don't always know what's going on, and your 2 second assessment of the situation might not always be accurate.


 I understand where you're coming from. Though, I have three autistic cousins ages 12,15, and 30. And all levels of autism are different in them. All three of them respect the rules and know how to act in public. Yes, they do act out once in awhile but it's not everyday. The 30 year old has the worst case of autism out of the three of them but he still knows how to act. The only thing we have to remind him of is to keep his voice down, and he always says what's on his mind so if someone is staring at him he will call that person out for it (quite funny actually).


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## SmoothTrails (Oct 1, 2009)

I say yes to leashes for some kids. I needed one. I have a younger brother and sister, younger nieces and nephews, and my family fostered. I needed a leash and one little girl we fostered needed one, and there were some neices and nephews that needed them. I would also say yes to leashes at flea markets, malls, and a lot of other public places. Although it doesn't give absolute security, it does helpto slow things down. Sometimes its not that the child isn't disciplined, but that they are just that stubborn. I was the queen of the corner and the spankings when I was little. I was awful! I had no fear, and even after getting in trouble I would act up again.

When I was little my grandmother put me in the corner for acting up after she gave me a spanking. After about 5 minutes she told me I could get out of the corner when I could be good. I didn't respond and continued to stand in the corner. When they asked me why I looked up and said, "I can't be good." It's funny now, but I was a really mean little kid. It's part of the reason I got a pony when I was 5. I needed something to keep me occupied, and it gave my parents something to hold over my head when I acted up since time-outs and spankings and essays (by 3rd grade I had to write papers when I got in trouble...my mother was an English teacher) didn't work to keep me in line. Had they not had me on a leash who knows where I would have ended up. I don't have memories of being on a leash, so I wouldn't really be too worried about the effect it would have on most children.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

White Foot said:


> I understand where you're coming from. Though, I have three autistic cousins ages 12,15, and 30. And all levels of autism are different in them. All three of them respect the rules and know how to act in public. Yes, they do act out once in awhile but it's not everyday. The 30 year old has the worst case of autism out of the three of them but he still knows how to act. The only thing we have to remind him of is to keep his voice down, and he always says what's on his mind so if someone is staring at him he will call that person out for it (quite funny actually).


Oh, sure. I expect by the time my son is 12 his under-developed nervous system will have matured enough, or he will have learned enough coping skills in therapy, that he can conduct himself in public quite well. For now, though, he is 6, and not there yet. It's not something I can discipline him into. 

I hear you, about the voice modulation. That's also a big one with my son. Also he tends to say the worse things at the worse times (what kid doesn't?) He went through a stage when he was about 4 that he had a fear of the high-velocity flush toilets used in most public bathrooms. They were too noisy, they hurt his ears. My ex fiance one time took my son and I to an upscale, nice place for dinner. I excuse myself to the restroom, and when the waitress stopped by to inquire about my order, my son said (far too loudly) "Oh, mommy's not here. She went to use the NOISY potty."

Thanks, kid.


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## RadHenry09 (Mar 22, 2009)

I used a child leash on my child when she was a toddler. I was a single mother for the first 5 years of her life and even though I had only one child I used it when we went to stores shopping and other busy places. The reason I started using it was because I went to the grocery store one day and my very strong willed 3 yr old ran away from me while I was shopping. She ran down the store and by the time I caught up with her anyone could have taken her , she was fast! I used it a few more times until she got smart and realized she could take the velcro apart(it had a velcro end that went around her wrist) She started staying with me and then I didnt really use it after that but it worked great for awhile. She is now 10 and can still be a handful but now my husband has my back most of the time : )


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

I don't see it as an issue. It's not a matter of discipline but more so of safety. Children regardless of how many times you tell them, are children. They want to see the world, explore. I see them used all the time when I go down to Disneyland, CA and to be honest, I think they are great devices.

It doesn't hurt the child, in merely helps prevent losing your little one in huge crowds or areas that would be very dangerous to lose a child in.

I would use them, I dont see anything wrong with them.


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

tehehe my mom should get a leash for me... and im 14, hahaha i have a short attention span XD 
my mom never got me a leash, but then again i was always like a puppy, i would be across the store and running around but i would also know where she was and i would always come running back. haha there was only one time when they shouldave gotten me one... i ran down Long Beach for about an hour looking for them, haha but my dad was following me without me to see where i was going... i was only three then. 
honestly, i have no problem with leashs, i mostly just have problems with freakishly over-protective parents. I think it wouldve been nice to have a leash on me when i was learning to ski.... haha i was the kid whipping down the ski hill at the speed of light on skis, haha, but i learned how to stop real quick, lol.


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## Whispering Meadows (Apr 30, 2009)

Alright. I've tried 3 times to write a response but my computer has a virus and closes everything out before I can finish writing my response and post it. So I give up for now. LOL


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

Here I go:

With my oldest I didn't have to use a leash. I didn't like them. I thought they were silly. UNTIL one day he wanted something that was across the parking lot and pulled out of my hand, I grabbed his coat, he pulled out of his coat and ran across the parking lot. Sent two cars screeching to a halt. I thought I was doing a good job with him. He stayed by my side MOST of the time. But kids are unpredictable! I never did get a "leash" for him but thinking back maybe I should have. There were MANY times when he would throw a fit and I tried to hang on to his hand or pick him up or punish him (I've since learned to just stand there and wait it out). I would think to myself "this has GOT to be hurting his hand or arm or shoulder!". I mean when you hold your child's hand you are basically LEASHING them to you. Think about it, your arm to your hand to his hand to his arm, it's a connection JUST LIKE A LEASH! Not to mention how tiring it must be for a small child to have his arm up so high for a long period of time. 

Anyway, when I had my third (a boy) I QUICKLY learned what RUNNER meant. The moment that boy took his first steps he was up and away. I would turn my back for maybe three seconds and he'd be out of my sight. Now since I had two very well behaved older children I could just plop Logan in the cart and be off. He couldn't run and I was happy. 

Then Luke came. Luke had to have the seat and Logan had to walk. That's when I learned how hard it is to push a cart and keep a two year old by your side. He wants to touch everything, he's not stranger shy, he is still learning boundaries and he LOVES to run and explore. Things which can be dangerous and messy in a lot of places. Remember now that at two he is still LEARNING to stay by me and he is still LEARNING when and what to do. Not to mention he's VERY strong willed. 

I think a "leash" is an excellent tool in some situations. When you are on vacation, a crowded place, when you'll have your hands full. Just because we are parents doesn't make us sprout seven arms, nine eyes and the speed of lightning. I don't see the child's "leash" as a dog's leash. I don't think they compare. And if you want to compare then you can compare teaching a dog to heel off leash to teaching your child to stick by your side. Like I said on another forum I'm working on teaching my kids to sit, stay and retrieve dead birds in their mouth. Basically, it's silly to compare the two.

The only time I would compare the two is if someone is using the "leash" inappropriately. Yanking on it like you would when you correct a dog or pulling your child with it across the floor. Then yes, to those parents it does compare. 

BTW way back when, mothers used to tie their children to poles, table legs and themselves with apron strings.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

I realize they have a good purpose, but it's really disturbing to see a kid on the end of a leash.


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

It's even more disturbing to see them hit by cars or snatched by someone. : /


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

That's the thing. I think it's more a safety issue than anything. I think they're great devices(as odd as the idea is).


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

ShutUpJoe said:


> It's even more disturbing to see them hit by cars or snatched by someone. : /


I said I realized they had a good purpose.


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

I know I was just commenting on it looking disturbing. I wasn't bashing you.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

I will leash my child. When I cared for my 2 year old strong willed little sister she had a leash too. It is safe, stressfree, and supports your young childs independance while they learn boundaries. 

Kaylee had hers on until she was 4(then she just had a "bracelet" with a leash attached to it in large crowded areas), by then she had learned to stay with me, not wander off, if she got too far she learned to yell "SISSY" really loud just to be sure we stayed together. I didnt have to fight her and argue with her, it there was no "I dont want to listen", there was no choice but to listen and stay near me.

I think it enforces the bond you have with your child. Sure in a perfect worl all toddlers would listen to their parents, not throw tantrums and change their own pullups, but not in this lifetime. It takes time to teach a child to stay near you and it takes time for them to understand that the world is dangerous. Until then I would rather not have to scream and yell at my kid, force him to hold my hand and have to constantly worry about him wandering or darting off of a sudden.

And the human dignity thing?? Are you serious?? Grow up. They are little kids, you think they give a crap? If you do not make a big deal out of it, they will not care at all. If they ask if they are a puppy dog, say "No, this is so mommy(sissy, babysitter, ect.) can let you walk like a big kid by yourself and know you are safe". I would choose safety over dignity any day of the week.

Not to mention they are freakin' cute!! Especially the "backpacks" that look like bears and monkeys and pandas!With some the leashes are not detachable, so no worries about them being undone quickly.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

ShutUpJoe said:


> The only time I would compare the two is if someone is using the "leash" inappropriately. *Yanking on it like you would when you correct a dog* or* pulling your child with it across the floor*. Then yes, to those parents it does compare.
> 
> BTW way back when, mothers used to *tie their children to poles, table legs and themselves* with apron strings.


I have done all the above. The oldest two are off the leash and will fetch birds nicely (I don't MAKE them use thier mouths but it does impress my buddies). I had a rope strung between two trees last summer and I would hook the leash to a snap on the line and he could run a long ways and play outside safely.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

Kevin, you are an ****, but a darn tootin funny one!!


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

Kevin:

I used a lunge line once, lol. I was helping the farrier and it was either that or watch him climb under the rabbit hutch because he liked it under there. I would never yank on the leashes though. I babysat a girl whose mother did that to her and the little girl had bruises on her chest and around her sides from the harness. 

Logan knows that if he doesn't walk beside me he can go in the cart while I carry the baby. He'd rather walk so he doesn't pull the "leash". But I rarely go anywhere by myself anymore. My husband works nights so he can come help!


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## roro (Aug 14, 2009)

I don't see a problem with it. It can be used as a safety precaution. It is foolish to dismiss this because you believe a leash is degrading somehow. As a side note, dogs supposedly have the intelligence of the average 2-2.5 year old, so the difference between the two isn't as great as one might initially think.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

ShutUpJoe said:


> Kevin:
> 
> I used a lunge line once, lol. I was helping the farrier and it was either that or watch him climb under the rabbit hutch because he liked it under there. I would never yank on the leashes though. I babysat a girl whose mother did that to her and the little girl had bruises on her chest and around her sides from the harness.
> 
> Logan knows that if he doesn't walk beside me he can go in the cart while I carry the baby. He'd rather walk so he doesn't pull the "leash". But I rarely go anywhere by myself anymore. My husband works nights so he can come help!


I can go you one better than that! I used a lariet once at a rodeo. I don't yank on the leash but I will bump it to get them to stop leaning on it. Just like I would do on a horse.


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## RadHenry09 (Mar 22, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> I can go you one better than that! I used a lariet once at a rodeo. I don't yank on the leash but I will bump it to get them to stop leaning on it. Just like I would do on a horse.


 
What is good for the horses is good for the kids! Funny how horse handling and child rearing seem so similar.:think:


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## wordstoasong (Jul 8, 2008)

I never had a leash. I had a cool backpack that was a bear. LOL.

But my little brother had a leash. It had wings on it, and even thou we had it, we never used it. I dont know why but we never did use it.

My friend has two children under the age of 3 and her first child, love the little girl but she is a little monster sometimes. She has a pink poodle leash that she loves to run around with but if someone is holding on to it, face first flat on the floor. She wont walk with someone holding on to her. When the 4 of us go out, I take her away so my friend can watch her little boy and get her shopping done. 

Really, its up to whoever wants to use them. If they are handy, then yay, awesome. I like having my friends daughters leash with us as a just in case option.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Honeysuga said:


> Not to mention they are freakin' cute!! Especially the "backpacks" that look like bears and monkeys and pandas!With some the leashes are not detachable, so no worries about them being undone quickly.
> 
> View attachment 27829


I agree. That is what my friend's kid had, the monkey. He loved it.


I think the leash gives them (the kid) more freedom than they would have in some situations.
Friend with her son and I were waiting in a long line one day. Son had his monkey backpack leash on. With out it he would have been required to stand holding his mother's hand while we waited for 45 minutes for our turn. Because of his leash he was able to climb about some and keep himself pretty well amused (there were toys in that back pack too).

I do not see how it can even slightly damage a child.....


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

Those back packs are cute! Much better than the old wrist straps back when I cared for my niece (shes 26 now :shock 
Sorry Whispering Meadows I didin't mean to offend you.


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## Whispering Meadows (Apr 30, 2009)

wordstoasong said:


> I never had a leash. I had a cool backpack that was a bear. LOL.
> 
> But my little brother had a leash. It had wings on it, and even thou we had it, we never used it. I dont know why but we never did use it.
> 
> ...


As for the backpack leash that child wants cause its cute is one thing, I saw one at work the other day with the monkey one that had the end of the leash on her wrist!



Alwaysbehind said:


> I agree. That is what my friend's kid had, the monkey. He loved it.
> 
> 
> I think the leash gives them (the kid) more freedom than they would have in some situations.
> ...


Look at the bolded section in the quote above yours....that could do more then slightly damage a child (depending on how hard they fell). The leash can be just as dangerous as having your child loose.



Vidaloco said:


> Those back packs are cute! Much better than the old wrist straps back when I cared for my niece (shes 26 now :shock
> *Sorry Whispering Meadows I didin't mean to offend you.*


What do you mean? This is a debate, someone is going to get offended.


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## Lis (Oct 29, 2009)

^I was under the impression the face flat on the floor thing was the kid having a tantrum not the parent pulling the kid over. 

I had a leash when I was little, it annoyed me yeah but it kept me safe and if I ever have kids (hope not but you never know) they're going to have a leash as well. It only takes a second for a kid to see something interesting and dart away while the parent is looking at something else. I remember getting lost once when I was a lot younger and being in tears because I couldn't find my mum, wouldn't have happened if I'd been on the leash at the time. I also agree with the person who rubbished the diginity thing, for crying out loud they're kids!! My youngest cousin is quite happy to scream herself red if she's having a tantrum, where is the diginity in that? I am all for a leash, it provides security and if you were going to snatch a kid which one would you take; the one running around loose or the one on the leash?


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## Whispering Meadows (Apr 30, 2009)

Lis said:


> ^*I was under the impression the face flat on the floor thing was the kid having a tantrum not the parent pulling the kid over. *
> 
> I had a leash when I was little, it annoyed me yeah but it kept me safe and if I ever have kids (hope not but you never know) they're going to have a leash as well. It only takes a second for a kid to see something interesting and dart away while the parent is looking at something else. I remember getting lost once when I was a lot younger and being in tears because I couldn't find my mum, wouldn't have happened if I'd been on the leash at the time. I also agree with the person who rubbished the diginity thing, for crying out loud they're kids!! My youngest cousin is quite happy to scream herself red if she's having a tantrum, where is the diginity in that? I am all for a leash, it provides security and if you were going to snatch a kid which one would you take; the one running around loose or the one on the leash?


Your right, it could be that, it could be the parent pulling the child, it could be a child running off get to the maximum length of the leash and it yanking him out from under himself causing him to fall....I could go on

My point being they can be just as harmful as safe.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Whispering Meadows said:


> Look at the bolded section in the quote above yours....that could do more then slightly damage a child (depending on how hard they fell). The leash can be just as dangerous as having your child loose.


You were talking about psychological impact in your post, that is what I was referring to. 

And kids have tantrums all the time, no leash required so I highly doubt the leash had anything to do with the tantrum past the kid not getting what they want.


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## Lis (Oct 29, 2009)

Unless they've changed, those leashes aren't exactly long. I have dog leashes that are longer than the one I had so I don't think they can be just as harmful. Like any tool it's all in they are used but overall no they aren't just as harmful because I think one little fall is nothing compared to not having one and getting hit by a car.

This was on the news here, a little British girl got hit by a car on Daytona Beach, she just darted out into the path of the car. Only four years old and she was unfortunatly killed. Not wearing a leash, uncle says the car came barelling down on them but witnesses say she darted out into the way of the car, it does make you think if she had been wearing one it could have been avoided.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

All for leashes. I would prefer the harness vs the wrist type.

Yes - there are going to be caregivers who don't follow the directions on how to correctly use them. But no matter what - a leash is not going to get your child lost, run out in front of a car, grabbed by some pervert, kicked by a horse, bit by a dog, fall down a sewer, etc.

A leash is far less dangerous than letting a very active child run free.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Whispering Meadows said:


> My point being they can be just as harmful as safe.


 
I can't see how they could do much damage. I can't figure out what your real point is here except to argue, but the harness is not going to kill the child like the bumper of a Buick will. If you don't like them then when you grow up and have kids don't use them.


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## Whispering Meadows (Apr 30, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> I can't see how they could do much damage. I can't figure out what your real point is here except to argue, but the harness is not going to kill the child like the bumper of a Buick will. If you don't like them then when you grow up and have kids don't use them.


First off, where do you get off saying "when you grow up"? I AM grown up, yea I don't have kids, but growing up I lived (notice I said lived not spent time with....I LIVED with him) with my nephew alot when he was at the "leash" age and he never needed one. Why? because he knew that if he didnt stay with us that he would get disciplined. He didnt need a leash because he was disciplined and taught not to run off or get to far away from us.

And, like lots of you have said, kids are wiggly and get themselves into places we cant....to me, that means they could even get themselves twisted into the leash where it could strangle them. And what if they take off running get to the end of the leash and it yanks them back and they fall and, say they're in a parking lot, and fall flat on they're face? they could easily injure themselves pretty badly, and you could get in trouble for abusing them because someone might see and say you yanked the leash which cause them to fall and now they have cuts, scrapes and bruises all over their face. You could get arrested and or lose custody of your kids.

Thank you, but no thanks. I'll stick to teaching my kids to behave rather then let them get hurt because of a stupid leash.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Grown ups weigh the risks and take the action they think is best. I'm sure harnesses and leashes kill more kids than cancer. I'm going to use one because I like taking foolish risks and I don't love my children. I'm also sure that you will never mature enough to look back on your opinion and see how foolish it was.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> Grown ups weigh the risks and take the action they think is best. I'm sure harnesses and leashes kill more kids than cancer. I'm going to use one because I like taking foolish risks and I don't love my children. I'm also sure that you will never mature enough to look back on your opinion and see how foolish it was.


Couldn't have put it better. Opinions formed about how you will raise your children, when you don't have children, are all but useless. Having a child forces you to go back and re-evaluate every one of those opinions, and in no time you will find yourself doing things you never thought you would do. Leashing a child is NOT a discipline-or-lack-thereof issue. Trust me. Kevin has it right on this one - you cannot know until you are in the same shoes. You CANNOT discipline the adventurous spirit out of some children - and why in the world would you want to?


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Indyhorse said:


> You CANNOT discipline the adventurous spirit out of some children - and why in the world would you want to?


Best point of the whole thread!!!!!!


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

And having one kid to watch and keep with you is far different than having two or three.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> And having one kid to watch and keep with you is far different than having two or three.


True. 

I think part of the OPs theory is based on something that did not give her a full picture of how it can be.

As Kevin has pointed out with his story, not all kids are the same. That along with the fact that the ONE child the OP has had experience with was not a child she was the sole provider for has her thinking that training a human kidlet is easier than teaching a puppy to sit and stay.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

They make kids bouncy and fairly unbreakable for a reason -- they fall down ... a lot. They fall into things. They get cuts and scrapes and bruises all the time. Or at least if they're allowed to be a kid they do. 
If you look at the design of most of the harness-type kidleashes, they're made of soft material - they're made so that a kid trying to make a quick getaway won't get hurt when he hits the end of the leash. Besides, what's a few scrapes compared to the bumper of a car, or being snapped up be a predator? Beyond that, I just cannot wrap my head around the whole 'getting it wrapped around the kid's neck' thing ... I don't get how that would be possible... unless the leash was 10' long, and the kid turned into the Tazmanian devil? 
Do you have links to valid reports that say a leash has truly harmed a child? 
As for emotional scarring.... well heck I can't even remember being that old... can you? 
To each their own, of course, but I have no problem with kid leashes. 


By the way, I laughed out loud at the lunge line and lariat comments - too funny.


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## Lis (Oct 29, 2009)

I was just talking to my mum about this and I actually have the memory of being on the leash, lovely blue and white striped leash, at the London Underground (I just remember trains) and my mum put me on it because she knew at some point she would have to let go of my hand so this way she could still be attached to me. Got on the train and she took off to which I asked her to put it back on because I didn't want to get lost! (Probably didn't ask quite as explanatorily as that) First time on the Underground, no way was I getting lost! So not really emotionally scarring but I remember other occasions where it did annoy but looking back it's like a smack, all for my own good.

As for strangling...Well I would have had to take my wrist and literally wrap it round my neck myself. I've never heard of this, not saying it doesn't happen because it may but show me evidence that it does this and I may take that statement more seriously.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

With the harness types, doesn't the leash come out the back?

In order for a kid to be strangled, they'd have to deliberately wrap it around their necks themselves. 

Most children that small don't have the proper hand/eye coordination to accomplish that, and I imagine parents are probably paying enough attention to the kidlet even if it did happen, that no strangling would occur.

Methinks the OP is just bored, and trying to stir up a tempest in a teapot.

Too bad for her that the majority of us think leashing kids is fine. :wink:

I also think once she has a spratlet of her own, she'll welcome anything that will make her parenting job a little easier.


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## heyycutter (Sep 26, 2009)

id use a leash for any kid i watch over, or will have in the future. with all the pedophiles out there and just plain creepy people, id prefer keeping the kids close.
not to mention how fast and quiet they are!


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

Leashes can be SAFER than a parent hanging onto their child. My then 2yr old was throwing the biggest tantrum while waiting in line at Target because she wanted to empty a candy display and I obviously wasn't about to let her. I had a nice firm grip on her hand and she all of a sudden went from yanking to limp (trying to get away from me) and since I wasn't paying attention to her (I was unloading the cart) I didn't let go of her and she ended up with a dislocated elbow.

Yes, she told the Dr. and all the ER personnel that "Mommy hurt me!". They all chuckled, the DR reset her elbow and told me it's a very, very common injury in kids and I'd probably be back a few more times for the same thing before her growth plates closed (which I was... she fell off a bed and over a baby gate requiring 2 more ER visits for elbow resets).

Child services never investigated or anything but I did wish I'd been using her leash that day instead of hanging onto my kid myself!!


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## TaMMa89 (Apr 12, 2008)

Honeysuga said:


> And the human dignity thing?? Are you serious?? Grow up. They are little kids, you think they give a crap? If you do not make a big deal out of it, they will not care at all. If they ask if they are a puppy dog, say "No, this is so mommy(sissy, babysitter, ect.) can let you walk like a big kid by yourself and know you are safe". I would choose safety over dignity any day of the week.


Yes, I believe everything you experience during your childhood will affect on you when you're adult one day. And leashing a child like an animal... well, personally I see that kind of inhumane. Even on the other hand I'd also see it depends a bit on it what ShutUpJoe said, like how you use the leash. Like do you pull your kid like a dog or is it just a way to keep the kid close to you. 

Besides that, if you read the rest of my message, you'll notice I also said I understand it if it's extremely needed because of safety. I should choose a leash for example over a dead kid any day. I think I still wouldn't go there myself if it was possible to go some else way.

I'd also appreciate it if you didn't ask me grow up. I have my opinions and I see those are as valuable as anyone else's.


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## TaMMa89 (Apr 12, 2008)

*I would choose a leash for example over a dead kid any day.

Perhaps it's also a cultural thing... Like I said leashes aren't that common here so it feels a bit odd for me.


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## Horseshowmom (Mar 23, 2010)

Never say never. I would have swore I wouldn't use leashes but had to resort to one for a short time with my daughter, she was good at getting a seatbelt off in her stroller and just one small distraction and she would be off and running. Ugh... one time is all it takes to change your mind on the use of those leashes.


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

Delfina:

It's funny that you mentioned this. A parent on another forum had this happen to her yesterday. It's called Nursemaid's elbow. It's very common. 


Whispering Meadow: How the HECK can a child strangle themselves with the leash? The point of the leash is for the parents to have the handle. So.... umm I'm just going to let my child sit there and twist the leash around their neck? 

I think you should wait until you've had a couple kids before you get all holier-than-thou about this. Some kids take to discipline like the bible others could care less how many times you tell them not to do something. When they are younger than two how much discipline can you truly do and how much do they understand? I don't think you know what you are talking about. 

Isn't there better things to worry about than parents leashing their children? There are worse things you can do as a parent.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

Tamma, I did not ask you to grow up, I requested it, I should have said try to act and think a little more maturely. Until you are the sole care giver for a child or a parent, you have no idea what dignity you lose in caring for your child. You have no idea the fear of losing your beloved child or seeing him hurt. You have no idea what it is like to allow a young mind to be independent and flourish without having to have constant physical contact with mommy. Sure you could say you would TRY to discipline the adventurous spirit out of them, but when you actually are the one caring for a child you will find it much more respectful and caring to allow the child to be a child at the safe end of a leash.

If you do not like the term "leash" call it the umbilical method. The child is physically attached to its sole care giver and safe from most harm.

I think it would take a lot of work for a child to strangle himself on a leash, and if the parent of that child pays so little attention to the child in the first place, it is an accident waiting to happen having the child at all.


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## wordstoasong (Jul 8, 2008)

Just reading thru real quick, to those questions on my "face flat on floor" comment, Brooklyn falls over because she gets mad/upset on being held on to with her harness-leash. I don't jerk her around, just let her know at eye level that she has to stay and behave. Just to let everyone know. =]


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

I figured that is what it was, Kaylee did the same thing as well as start holding her breath. it is jsut like when you get a new puppy(gasp a puppy kid comparison!bahaha) and it flops around and carries on to make you take it off. It is kid scare tactics, the little monsters! lol


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## TaMMa89 (Apr 12, 2008)

Would still add one thing (seems that my thoughts are in pieces tonight and I can't write it all in one message):

Since I'm guessing some of you perhaps catch my view of human dignity as critique for your lifestyle: that kinda falls live and let live category in my mind. When asking my view, yes, I tell my opinion, the way I'd personally go with the thing and then explain why I'd go for it. That isn't still so "big deal" that I should interfere in others' choices. So please don't get hot because of that, I'm not going to cut your leash :wink:.

To you who say that "well, your view will change when you'll have kids of your own": I guess I don't change it that much because like I said, I put safety first. I'd try to find other solutions for the situation at first but if it was really needed and there was no other ways I'd have a leash for my children and I already know it. Still my comment for that in general stage is that what about it? We interpret things in our current context and sometimes our way to see things changes when time goes by, sometimes it doesn't. If it changes, well, then we found a better way than the former way we went. If it doesn't, then it's perhaps something we see we don't need/want to give up. It's still a bit annoying to hear that maturity thing as an argument because what about it? If my mind changes in future because of "reality" I can't catch in my current life situation or something else, I'll admit it and say "heck, I see that's the best way to go now and let the past be, I didn't know all the facts then". On the other hand I can see some mother, who experience a leash even more obnoxious than me, trying to feverly find some else solution for the situation and don't see that immature as far as she doesn't put her child in danger.

So, I admit I can't exactly step in mother's shoes in my current life situation, but I can still have an opinion... if it'll change later, well, what about it.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

Very nice reply Tamma.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Tamma, I had a really cute little leash for my son. It was an Elmo Harness with a detacheable leash. The first time I went to use it my son was two I think? Anyway, he said "what? I'm a puppy!" I took the leash off and never used it. I am definitely not against the leashes but I do see your point and I think you are speaking from the heart and I'm glad to read your opinion.

I'm one of those moms that put my kid in bright colors when I go to crowded places so that I can easily spot him if he should get seperated. I never let him follow me, that drives me insane when I see a five or six year old walking 2 feet behind his mother or father, they never seem to look back to make sure their kid is still there (I'm sure they do, but my perception, is.... they don't). I make my son walk beside me or in front of me, I want to see him ALL the time. I put my six year old in a stroller at the zoo and amusement parks, not because he's a spoiled kid, but because I can easily keep him where I want him. It's scary out there and I'm all for whatever it takes to keep that baby safe!

Don't let people beat you up for having an opinion!


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

LOL Kevin!

Leashes and kids. Yup, there's a place for it. Though I didn't use it in crowds. In a crowd I wanted my kids *right at my side *holding my hand so I could feel them, even while I was watching where to go or whatever there was to see. We would use them at things like the International Plowing Match, country fairs, etc... where there were lots of people and places to hide, but the crowd was not dense at all. Gave the kids a chance to walk a bit more freely without being attached to our hands.

Ya, sure, if you can't discipline a kid you shouldn't have one. Uh huh... discipline and training come with time. A 7 yr old can be much more controlled than a 3 year old. Thems the facts. Horses/kids/dogs/husbands/whatever...


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## CrazyChester (May 5, 2008)

I don't disagree with people using one correctly.


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

Do they make those for teenagers and husbands? I want an Elmo one for the hubby


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## Whispering Meadows (Apr 30, 2009)

TaMMa89 said:


> Would still add one thing (seems that my thoughts are in pieces tonight and I can't write it all in one message):
> 
> Since I'm guessing some of you perhaps catch my view of human dignity as critique for your lifestyle: that kinda falls live and let live category in my mind. When asking my view, yes, I tell my opinion, the way I'd personally go with the thing and then explain why I'd go for it. That isn't still so "big deal" that I should interfere in others' choices. So please don't get hot because of that, I'm not going to cut your leash :wink:.
> 
> ...


Tamma,
I LOVE how you put that! There are many many ways to teach your child to stay with you. 

To me unless you or your child has some sort of disability you shouldn't out them on a leash. Not saying I like leashes but I do see some reasons a leash would be good. But like Tamma said, until I have kids and have tried other methods I wont resort to a leash. I will try and find a method that works best for me, my husband and our children.

Again, Tamma, you said pretty much what I wanted to say but didn't know how!


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Vidaloco said:


> Do they make those for teenagers and husbands? I want an Elmo one for the hubby


*The leash women have on men is NOT attached to a backpack!!!*


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

kevinshorses said:


> *The leash women have on men is NOT attached to a backpack!!!*


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> *The leash women have on men is NOT attached to a backpack!!!*



TEHHHHEEEEEEHHHEEE, so you think!


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## TaMMa89 (Apr 12, 2008)

kevinshorses said:


> *The leash women have on men is NOT attached to a backpack!!!*






farmpony84 said:


> old walking 2 feet behind his mother or father, they never seem to look back to make sure their kid is still there (I'm sure they do, but my perception, is.... they don't). I make my son walk beside me or in front of me, I want to see him ALL the time. I put my six year old in a stroller at the zoo and amusement parks, not because he's a spoiled kid, but because I can easily keep him where I want him. It's scary out there and I'm all for whatever it takes to keep that baby safe!


At first, off topic warning:

I just started to recall, after reading that topic, my own childhood in a bigger city. We were allowed to play with my friend at our yard alone, tho I guess our parents kept an eye on us watching out of windows. It was pretty large yard of two apartment buildings, not enclosured or anything and sometimes we just left the instant yard and played in woods close to it or somewhere and that was all allowed. If we wanted to be unruly, we could fled somewhere farther. If we asked a permission, we were allowed to visit a center (few shops, a candy shop and a library) of our suburb alone. It was located perhaps a kilometre from our apartment. That was when we were something between 8 and 10.

Have to say, I think we have brave parents. I don't know if let my kid go that freely in a city like that especially when it was known that there were all kind of rabble in that city and they for example caught pedophiles there every now and then. Of course we were told not to receive candy or anything from strange people or don't go with them, but still... kids around that age are still so clear and misleadable.

I don't know if I'll be just a hyper concerned mother some day; I bumped into a piece of news not so long ago. It told that nowadays many of parents over protect their children and don't for example let them play outside even there weren't any real reason to prevent them to go out.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Well... I'm going to go with the opinion that sooner or later, I think everyone is going to be needed to put on a leash to learn a lesson or two.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

To me, it's just like horses. Use some common sense on a case by case basis and don't abuse the tool (IE tie your kid to a lightpost why you go have lunch)

If you have one kid and are just going to a walk in in a fairly unpopulated area where you can see him at all times. You probably don't need a leash. For some kids, maybe you do. 

Multiple kids? Child known to wander away (I used to play "hide and seek" inside the clothes racks with my mom when I was little. I thought it was hilarious. I'm surprised she didn't hit me), very busy places, lots of distractions, etc, use a leash if you feel like it is safer for your kid.

For the majority of people, it is an issue of safety for your child. No long term psychological studies have been done to see if it "dehumanizes" the child or leaves them with resentment (Or a burning desire to pee on a fire hydrant?) but I think it's perfectly fine. I don't have kids but I have babysat many and there were times where I wish I had one.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Spastic_Dove said:


> To me, it's just like horses. Use some common sense on a case by case basis and don't abuse the tool (IE tie your kid to a lightpost why you go have lunch)


LOL!
Oh, what a picture!  :lol:


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

Like this?
The Chinese toddler chained through love and fear | World news | The Guardian


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

That makes me sad. Someone stole his little girl. I'd chain my kid up too!


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

That article is heartbreaking on so many different levels I don't even know where to start to comment about it. Thought provoking though, thanks for posting it, ShutupJoe.


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

No problem. Like I said there are worse things that can happen to your child than wearing a backpack buddy.


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## shesinthebarn (Aug 1, 2009)

Discilpine of the child is not at the heart of the issue. A toddler, even the best behaved one, has a limit to their attention span. They see a big shiny truck in the parking lot and don't think about it. They just go. They are babies. They make mistakes. My 18 month old knows that when he is not in the sling he holds the cart, but if he sees a balloon, for instance, he could loose focus and may well bolt. And I mean bolt. The little ******s are QUICK. You can't expect a toddler to keep their focus for the entire length of a shopping trip. My son has not worn one yet (a harness), and I admit I have never been much of a fan. However, I'm expecting my second baby in July/Aug and it has me thinking hard about getting one. The thought of juggling a newborn and managing a tot in the grocery store parking lot is frightening. It's just a matter of keeping our precious little ones safe...
I wanted to add to the OP, that although you had experience with your nephew who never needed a leash, it doesn't mean that every kid that has one on is poorly parented and undisciplined. Some parents are trying to be proactive with the safety of their kids. And yes, when you have kids one day, despite your best efforts they will have tantrums in the cereal isle, bolt for the balloon and display untold naughty behaviour that you swore you would never tollerate in your own offspring. You will just have a different perception of it all. I guess all I am saying is try not to judge to harshly.
I have a confession, though...yeaterday I put my kid in the sick pen when the vet showed up unexpectedly to palpate a mare! I put him in there with a couple barn cats, a couple little feed buckets and a feed scoop...kid had a blast.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

Lol, sick pen..play pen...same difference.

Kids really have no concept of "human dignity" at that age... the only person embarrassed by a harness is the person who chooses to be. As you can tell by the responses on this thread alone, you are going to see plenty more people for leashes than against, and usually the ones who are still embarrassed by them do not have kids.

The parents have usually lost their high and mighty dignity long before when they were splay legged in front of a hive of doctors and nurses grunting , screaming, and pooing on themselves giving birth, being spit up on, whipping their tatties out in public to breast feed, and dragging a screaming convulsing tantrum throwing child through the doctors, grocery store, library, church, pharmacy, what have you.


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## shesinthebarn (Aug 1, 2009)

The whole dignity thing...have you ever seen a toddler strip down to their birthday suit and do summersaults? NO shame, completely hillarious.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

Or decorate their bedroom in their own poop, not to mention walk ad run and do somersaults with that same poop squishing around in their pants... Or eat boogers and bugs and throw up food and try to eat it again... not much dignity there either.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

:lol:

You guys make some VERY good points on the dignity thing. 

Thinking about how my friend's kids were during the 'close are optional' phase and trying to fit the word dignity into it just makes me laugh.


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## Walkamile (Dec 29, 2008)

While I never needed to use a harness/leash with my children (they are 81/2 years apart) my sister did with her middle child. Haven't seen any lasting damage to him and he's 22 now. Oh, and he's a police officer along with volunteer fireman and an EMT. I guess you could stretch the argument that perhaps the early lesson in safety was long lasting! LOL!You do what you need to to keep your child safe. 

I think Shesinthebarn stated it very well. BTW, I applaud you for your "creative" solution with your son when the vet was there! :wink:


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## TaMMa89 (Apr 12, 2008)

I think it's my time to response again.

Yes, kids don't have that much inhibitions that age but I meant that things happened in childhood can affect on you afterwards. Even yes, I admit a leash isn't perhaps the most traumatic one, even people experience things different way and I can imagine that it'd perhaps be if used _incorrectly_.

About the argument of losing your human dignity during a birth: People do have different sense of morals ans dignity (don't know if these are the best words to describe what I mean but don't find anything better now) and I wouldn't automatically equate these ones. Like I said earlier, people experience things different way. Besides that being "not so clean" (if you catch birthing like that) at some moment doesn't need to decrease dignity of some other thing.




Honeysuga said:


> As you can tell by the responses on this thread alone, you are going to see plenty more people for leashes than against, and usually the ones who are still embarrassed by them do not have kids.


I wouldn't either see a leash embarrassing. It can be more about values. You don't need to feel the thing you're against is embarrassing, but more like... just something you just don't like about. I see it don't absolutely need to be something related to your age or a point of a life span... Like I said, people can also try to find other solutions or then change their opinion later (read my previous response).

Yes, seems most of people are for leashes at least over here.

Ugh... I think I've gone bit over now and sound more "enthusiastic" than I actually am :?. This isn't the thing I feel I have to make a mountain out of a molehill, just wanted to give an opposite view for your new arguments.


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