# Need help please



## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

Hi,
This is my horse. About 2 month ago I call nail man to cut his nails. This man was new to this job . My old man was bussy and my friend advice me to call him to nail the horses. He come and cut the nails but he cut them deep I think because horse get sick and can not walk operly and you can see he is in pain while walking. Most of the time he is lalying on ground because of the pain. I call vet. He come and give me the blue powder to mix it hot water and put horse nails in it. As well as the medicines that you can see the pictures. I did this but did not work. Vets in here no have knowlage about big animals. I call the old nail man and he come too he said horse get bacteria in his body so his legs hot. He suggested same medicines. We even nail the horse forone month so his nails grow proper. Today I clean his nails again. His nails as you will see the white places on nail is soft and it come out so easy. the rest of his nails are strong but the white places are so soft. I do not know what to do. Please help me to help this little horse.

Thanks 
Okan Polatkan


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

GET A DIFFERENT VET!!!!!
can you put sand in the stall so the poor horse doesn't have to lay on the cement floor?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Hello Okan,
Welcome to the forum. I can see that English is not your first language, so, if we do not understand completely your description, please correct us.

Was your horse's FEET hot? the bottom of the hoof (nails)? only, or was it hot all the way up the leg?
Did this happen suddenly? or did he go lame little by little?

Did the Vet (animal doctor) take his temperature (his body temperature) to see if he had an infection?

What is he eating? what kind of hay? grain?

Is he standing in a lot of mud or wet manure?

please give more details.

I am suspecting laminitis, but not sure.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> Hello Okan,
> Welcome to the forum. I can see that English is not your first language, so, if we do not understand completely your description, please correct us.
> 
> Was your horse's FEET hot? the bottom of the hoof (nails)? only, or was it hot all the way up the leg?
> ...


This was my guess too, that's why I suggested sand in the stall.


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

deserthorsewoman: 
We do not have many vets here. There is one woman but she does not understan from nails. She understand from body. And I no keep her in barn all the time. Most of the time she is out. I feed her so thats why she was inside.

tinyliny:
Yes my english limited. But I translate it and read what you said and I just went out and check her. 
1- Her feed is just little hot. But hot not sure how hot. Just little. Her nail bottom no hot. Its cold. All her nail cold.
2- We do not have proper vets. They do not even come to see . Money is not issue. Just no vet. Nail man. He knows better. Doctor did not take tempature. Nail man said infection. I call vet to come . Vet said get these medicines and do it horse. Naıl man help me. 
3- I feed them cow food. I have 2 other horse. They eat to. I have this horse long time. Do not think food problem. She finish food. And other 2 horse no have problem. This is new nail man wrong. He cut outside nails to much. After he finished nails were pink outside. 
4- No no mud here. I often clean barns water but no stay wet. after 1 hour its dry.

I am no profesional. I no even ride horse. After I fall down and my big horse step on me I stop. I try my best to look after them good. After I fall I scared a lot and now scare to go close. But I try I often let them free. Feed them 2 times. I call nail man to put shoes. I get warm medicine. Sometimes I brush them if they stay good.
I read and learn.
I listen and learn.
I watch and learn

Outside nails are not soft. really strong. Middle of bottom of nail also so strong. But the corners are soft .
I watch some youtube movies to see any same but not find.




this vid nearly same. But my horse no have hole on nail. and no abscess. But when I try clean mine ( no cut ) clean I feel horse in pain. 
This hose on movie have one leg pain. But my horse both front legs.


What I do?


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## Kayella (Feb 11, 2012)

I just had the farrier out yesterday, and my new boy has flaky "nails" too. They're white and powdery. At first I thought thrush, but the farrier said it wasn't. I can't remember what he told me it was, but he told me to mix half bleach and half water in a spray bottle. Clean the feet out every day and spray the bottom of the nails every day. This is supposed to help strengthen them. 

Did he cut the bottom of the hoof? As in, did he whittle the bottom of the nail with a curved knife? Perhaps he took off too much sole, and the pony has gone lame because of such a thin sole.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

If both legs and hooves hurt I say it is laminitis. Try to find on the internet something in your language about it to compare symptoms. Where are you, maybe we can help you find something.


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

It could be a abscess that has not came to the surface yet.. I hope you can find the help you need . Bless your sweet pony


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

I just watch this. 




I understand what you mean. My pony walk exactly same like this horse. What I do now  How can I help this pony. 

any suggestion please????


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

What is your mother language? I will try to find you help but I need to know where to look!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Okan,

perhaps you could try making a "poultice", such as the man made on that video. You can use baby diapers (the disposable type) and put epsom salts and some water in the middle, then wrap around the hoof and tape it on with lots of heavy tape, like duct tape ( the large silver/gray kind). mayve doin this to one front hoof for a few days to see if this helps.

hopefully, some other more experience persons here can help you.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Okan is posting from Turkey, I believe.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Is the "cow food" a dried grass? Or, is it a food that is in bags? Bagged cow foods may have things added that are very dangerous to horses. It can cause laminitis.

But, if your horses have been eating it and this is the first time one has been sick, I would guess it is from the hooves (nails) being cut too short. This will cause extreme pain and make it easy for infection to start.

I am hoping your horse recovers. I wish we could help even more. Best of luck for you.


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

Laminitis Hastal
this is in my language. I read it. Also send main them to explain me terms. What I understand from from page is 

1- Stop the reason: The reason can be food? So I have to change food?
2- Fix the barn: Mean I have to make sof floor so horse can lie down.
3- Straw: I have to gvie horse straw
4-Less food: I have to give horse less food?
5- sulfate : do not know what sulfate in medicine but I will check from pharmacy.
6- antibiotics : Penisilin?
7- aspirin: Is it same as we use? and dose? it does not say. This is to help blood get flowing.

these I understand from page. May be you can add more on it? Or shedule it for me.

I do not know dosages.


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

cow food 50 kg bags. I give half morning and half night. I let them free so they can eat out too. The english 2 big horse is fine. they eat. this one eat too. Long time eat. now happened? I will change the food. 
tinyliny : I can do that. No problem for me. This help to laminitis? I have to keep the nails clean? Or the problem is inside nails?


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

okan said:


> Laminitis Hastal
> this is in my language. I read it. Also send main them to explain me terms. What I understand from from page is
> 
> 1- Stop the reason: The reason can be food? So I have to change food?
> ...


okay.
1. I think food is the reason. Sometimes the horse gets sick over time, not immediately. Can you get hay?
2. Can you make her a bed of deep sand? That will make her more comfortable.
3. Straw she can eat also
4. Maybe not less, but different. Hay!
5. I don't know about sulfate
6. No, not needed
7. Aspirin could help with pain and bloodflow.

If I give you a link to a website for how to do her hooves(nails), can the man who does them do it that way?


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## Kayella (Feb 11, 2012)

I would not put sand in her stall. She may eat it and colic.


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

Yes . give me link. Or movie. Nail man is good. He can do. He been lessons. I trust him. I talk him today. He said same ilness that you said. Just tell me what to do. I will do what ever need. Tomorrow monring I wıll call different food. Hay I can get easy. I live village.
I can use bale instead of sand if necessary. these are no problem at all.
Problem is I use medicine or not? If yes which medicine and dosage. aspirin how many? Do I need bandage her nails or use something on nails?.


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

iftlik Evi Kbrs - Gaziveren
this pony and english horse. Nail man the one who hold horse


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Nice pictures
Okay. Here are the links. I hope that the translations work.
Bare Foot Horse
This is an explanation of what happens in the foot and what to do.

http://www.barefoothorse.com/barefoot_Toni_Founder
This has a lot of pictures of a pony who has laminitis and how it has been trimmed

NANRIC INC. - Shoeing the Laminitic Horse Video
This is another way of treating it. With shoes. I don't know if your horseshoer can do that. 

Very important is now to make your pony a little more comfortable. Do the sand stall, but give her hay or straw to eat so she doesn't eat the sand.
You can stand her in cold water. Each leg in a bucket or make a place with mud and stand her in there as long as she wants. 
No more cow food!!!!

If you can, call the veterinarian again and tell her your pony has laminitis and if she doesn't know how to treat it, maybe she has a colleague who knows. She can tell you the dosage for the aspirin also.

My compliments for being such a good horseowner. Not everybody would try so hard to find help.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

okan said:


> Laminitis Hastal
> this is in my language. I read it. Also send main them to explain me terms. What I understand from from page is
> 
> 1- Stop the reason: The reason can be food? So I have to change food?
> ...


1. Some cattle feeds contain a medication called an ionophore (i.e. monensin or rumensin). Ionophores are deadly to horses in very low levels, thus feeding cattle feed that contains an ionophore to a horse could be a devastating mistake. If your country requires good labels on the food bags, it may tell you if these chemicals are in the cow food.

2. If you can put something on the barn floor to make it softer, the horse will be more comfortable. Many people use wood shavings, straw made from wheat, or even sand. Shavings that are soft and look like this (about 13-14 cm)










3. Straw is for bedding. It is made of wheat and is too tough to feed horses. Hay is made from tall fine grass that is cut and dried. It is smaller than straw and better for the horse to eat.

4. Your horses look in good condition. I would follow the instructions in the laminitis information sent to you.

5. Unfortunately, the diseases and medicines may have different names there. It may be hard for us to give you good directions from here. I don't know what laminitis is called in Turkey. You will have to talk with your vet. Very bad cases will change the position of the bone in the foot. This may cause the pony to hurt for a very long time...or forever.

6. There are many antibiotics. Penicillin is only one kind. What the horse needs is an anti inflammatory to stop the swelling

Emergency treatment for laminitis

7. Horse aspirin mostly used is phenylbutazone. I don't know how easy it is to get in Turkey. It is made for horses. I would talk to your vet and ask him to find a dosage. Here is some information on aspirin with horses

Aspirin | EquiMed - Horse Health Matters

I really hope this helps you!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Hello Okan,

Welcome. Sorry about the circumstances of your welcome though! :-( Where abouts are you from, on the chance that someone here knows of any good horse vets or farriers(nail men) in your area? Did the vet give you any pain or anti-inflammation medication for him?

Looking at those photos & hearing the story, there's not enough information to be sure, but unfortunately it does seem your horse has suffered chronic(long term) laminitis with mechanical changes - the pedal bone(P3) has 'rotated' in relation to the hoof capsule & has 'dropped' so it is very low in the hoof - that flat sole would be very thin. It looks as though the left front is worse than the right?

I have drawn on a couple of your pictures to get/give a better idea. The green lines show *approximately* how the hoof should be - straight line from hairline(top of nail) to bottom. The angle the top of the nail is growing is most likely to be close to where it needs to be and parallel (in line with) P3. The curved red line is where it looks like the hoof wall is actually growing. The blue line on the sole(underneath) picture shows approximately where I would trim the walls back to, on an angle from the ground. I am not sure how accurate my idea of them is(?) without better pictures & different angles though & if you would like to look at the link below this post and send some more hoof pictures, we may be able to help advise you better. 

It looks like it has been a long term problem - at least a lot of months if not much more. That the horse wasn't obviously suffering until after the last farrier(nail cutter) came doesn't necessarily mean it was his fault at all. Horses can put up with a lot of discomfort without being obvious and perhaps it was coincidence that it became too much for him then, or perhaps something happened to cause a strong 'attack' of the 'disease' then. Perhaps the farrier didn't do anything wrong but just the trimming was enough to be too much. But if the farrier cut into the sole(bottom of the foot) at all - it is already too thin to protect inside foot - then he may have caused further problems.

Likewise, depending on what the 'cow food' is, it or the rest of his diet may not be an issue, but as with ourselves, we can usually eat bad food for many years before we develop serious health problems from it, so just because he's apparently been alright until recently doesn't mean the food is alright. If the food has grain in it I would not feed, if it has added ingredients like medecine or vitamins for cows I would not feed. If it is just chopped hay(dry grass) or such it may be perfectly good. We need to know what it is.

I know you already appreciate this, but it's a very serious condition your horse is in and if at all possible, urgent and well qualified help should be found. I would also advise x-rays of his feet if possible. That said, assuming that's just not available, it may be possible for you to heal this horse, depending on how much damage the horse has already sustained from the 'disease' and what you're able to do. It is not something I think it's a good idea for horse owners to attempt to treat themselves without experts present, let alone purely by internet advice, but if you have no other option...

In the meantime, the advice of soft footing is good. You may find that using adhesive tape to stick polystyrene or something like that to his feet will give him enough comfort and padding to stand up and walk around. He needs his nails trimmed as soon as possible, because the walls(outer 'nails') being long will cause more damage and pain when walked on. So long as it is only the outside wall that's trimmed, to sole level and with the long toe shortened, without any tools even touching the sole, this will help and won't hurt him. After his big trim, it is best if he can be trimmed just a little but often - every week or 2 - until his feet are healthier, so that they are kept very short and mechanical problems - walls too long - don't make him worse.

Of course, learning as much as you can is also important, especially as it seems it will be mostly up to yourself to try to get the horse well and you want to learn enough so you have some idea of whether the advice you get is safe:wink: Some more internet sources for information/help...
Pete Ramey hoof care laminitis founder horse navicular disease thrush equine foot development farrier Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Information Katy Watts | Safergrass.org 

Oh and something you may be trying not to think about...:-( while I definitely believe there is hope, depending on how much damage to the bone in the hoof, the horse may not ever recover enough to be out of pain. It is also very possible that the horse will never recover enough to be useful. It is also important to consider how much pain the horse is in and how long it might take to get the horse better, assuming you can. In my personal opinion I don't think it is reasonable to allow a horse to continue suffering too much or for too long, so you will need to consider that ethical question too.


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

thank you for your help. Just to inform you.
I tell you guys what I am doing. 
1-Today early morning I ordered horse food. I only find 4 box the man will get me more. 
2- I ordered grinded hay so I can give it him to eat.
3- I let the horse out so he can lie on sand outside.
4- I ordered hay so I can make bed in the barn. ( I read that horse should not walk to much)
5-I speak with nail man and he will come to me so I can show him what you say me and we discuss what we will do. 
6- I speak with the vet that seen the horse before and he said when he checked it it was not laminitis and it was tendon swelling. I tell him to come and check again gues the answer. He is bussy these days and tomorrow the weather will be raining. I tell him what I guess is laminitis. *He said if laminitis we should kill the horse* ( I want to kill him. I will never ever call him again). 
7- I call another vet and tell her what happened. She tryed to give me medicine names and tell what to do. Can you belive that? without seen the the horse . Anyway
8- I make the second vet come and see horse. Nail man will be there tomorrow too. Second vet says it can be hoof inflammation. I have no clue what it is 

I have to wait till tomorrow. I am really angry. How come these peoples become vet.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Hi Plan,

How do people become a vet....you need to understand that vet school cannot teach everything in just a few years. They learn the basics in school, which is already a lot, and then specialize in a type of animal. A horse specialist is what you need now. Making a diagnosis on the telephone is the same we did. Symptoms of laminitis are pretty clear. But, it is an emergency, so the vet should be coming right away and then work together with your farrier. 

You are doing the right things to make the pony as comfortable as possible. And by learning all about the disease. 
And now loosie has found this thread so you have a lot of help!


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

bless you you are trying so hard for this little pony .. ((((HUGS)))) the people here have given great advice I hope that the vet you have coming out can help some more. Your horses are very pretty.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Okan,

it must be very frustrating to deal with all this without someone there, beside you, to help. How very frustrating!

As for killing the horse, it may actual be necessary. If the horse does have laminitis, and the bone inside the hoof has rotated a lot, then the pain will be horrible for the horse, and it may not be something you can fix. We cannot say for sure , yet. But, it is true that if the damage is bad, you may have to consider humanely killing the pony.


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

OKAN-- please listen to Loosie 
if this is affecting more than 1 hoof/nail than chances are your horse has foundered (laminites) and is very painful for a horse. it takes a very long time to recover, some horses take years. depending on how bad it is you may have to put him down. I would ask your vet to take x-rays of the hoof and ask them to contact a horse vet. This is very serious !

If your horse is favoring 1 hoof/nail than it is possible its an abcess and should be soaked with warm water and epsom salts. An abcess is very common.

please have your vet contact a horse vet to consult. 

Glad your putting your horses on horse feed (hay) is very important- no mold or dust.


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

i make the horse barn floor good. put lots of hay on floor. tonight i give him horse food. he lie on now hays. tomorrow vet will come. and new nail man will be here. i clean fronth legs nails bottom again. i touch nails they are cold. but legs are little hot. 4 of them. i wait tomorrow.
thanks for all your help.

i will get in touch with you guys

thank you


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## nikelodeon79 (Mar 3, 2008)

okan said:


> Second vet says it can be hoof inflammation. I have no clue what it is


Hoof inflammation may just be another name for laminitis.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Okan, I first have to say you sound like a very caring owner, trying very hard to do what you can for your horse in a VERY difficult situation. :thumbsup:



okan said:


> 5-I speak with nail man and he will come to me so I can show him what you say me and we discuss what we will do.


Great. If you could post some good hoof pictures, I could give you some more specific suggestions to discuss with him... but not sure i can do that by tomorrow(depends, I think your 'tomorrow' is later than mine!) - got to go to work again shortly & it's my daughter's birthday... I'll do it as soon as possible when i see your pics though.



> 6- I speak with the vet that seen the horse before and he said when he checked it it was not laminitis and it was tendon swelling. I tell him to come and check again gues the answer. He is bussy these days and tomorrow the weather will be raining. I tell him what I guess is laminitis. *He said if laminitis we should kill the horse*


The horse may have tendon swelling too, but I am sure it is chronic laminitis/founder that is the major problem. Unfortunately until recent years it was common for even experienced horse vets to consider the condition 'incureable' so yes, killing the horse was the most humane option. These days however, it is common for even very severe cases such as it seems yours is, to be cured. *BUT as I said before, it depends and you may well have to consider that option.:-( 



> 7- I call another vet and tell her what happened. She tryed to give me medicine names and tell what to do. Can you belive that? without seen the the horse . Anyway


I don't think that is good practice either, but considering everything & how much pain the horse is in, some anti-inflammatory medecine (Phenylbutazone or such) could be a good 'first aid' measure. **I am not a vet, don't think this drug or others is good to use without (knowledgeable) vet advice usually, would not advise using it for more than a week or so(there are side effects to long term use), but it is one that (knowledgeable) equine vets regularly proscribe in this sort of situation. 



> Second vet says it can be hoof inflammation.


And the rest. 'Laminitis' means inflammation of the sensitive tissue inside the hoof. When this happens it damages the laminae, which are the connective tissue between the nail and the inside foot, which causes them to separate if the problem goes on for a long time, which is why your horse's feet look like 'slippers'.


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

hi. i am back. At 17:00 we had vet here and nail man. This new nail man have more knowlage than the old one. This said he quarantie me he will help my pony. He said I should not worry a lot. He cut the nails. I tell him if we will shoe the horse but vet and nail man agreed no need because of that will give him pressure. They all agreed soft barn. Vet said I must but horse legs in cold water everyday 10 minute. Vet said no more food. Horse will be on diet. I will only give horse oat. No horse food or caw food. 
Medicines:

Histavet : 2 day / 10 cc each day
Penisilin: 15 days / 10 cc everday
Fulinalgin 4 days / 10 cc everday
Gaboten 1 time a week / 10 cc 1 time a week

I talk vet that how I learned this can be laminitis. She said she know laminitis but this is not laminitis. She said this is hoof inflammation. She push this is inflammation. This is pro doc on horses but not hoofs. Today she give medicines. Tomorrow I will buy rest. 

I told them what we speak here and I do search. But one is proffosor the other one is really experienced nail man. I did not wanted to be rude. At the and vet is proffoser. You can not teach them their job. I just tell them I worry a lot.

Anyway I take some pics after they left, because I get shy when nail man were doing his job. Pics are not so clear I am sorry. But I can tell bottom of the nails have red marks on the corners. All 4 legs have same marks on corners. Nail an had hard time to cut nails because horse was in pain and moved a lot.

The big problem now is find oat. We do not grow oat here. I will see what I can find. 
1-If you do not mind can you please see the medicines are ok?
2-Also when you look pictures can you tell me what you see? (if necessary I will take more pics which are clean. )
3- The nail man said no shoe need or anything else. But when I do search search youtube there are many methods peoples use. What do you think? just cutting nails is enough? What I understand from vet and nail man they expect medcines do the most job.


thank you for all your helps


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

please do not give him oats... What you have on the floor is straw. that is good. Do you have any green hay to give him ? only give him some hay to eat. about 10 pounds a day... no grain.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Hi Okan,
Better pictures would be nice. When loosie comes to the forum she will tell you more.
I would NOT give oats! Hay only. Hay is dried grass. 
The pony looks still very much in pain, but it's standing
For the medicines I can't tell you much. Only that I don't understand why penicillin......
You're doing a GREAT job


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

vet says this happened because to much protein. she said that happened from to much barley. they say to much words in doctor language that i no understand, even in my language. what she try to say mainly cow food have lots protein that start something in his body and the sickness go down to nails and inflammation happens. I suggest them I use dryed clover to feed. But vet said it have to much vitamin or protein in it. Its the best in our country. We cut clover and let it dry few days than collect and give it to animals. But vets said no. Yesterday I ordered hay. We have only Barley hay. We have it 2 type. If you look pics you understand. One is normal that collected from field and give animals. The other one is collected from field and than use machine to smash it and this way you give it.
What evet I will give will be dry.hay is dryed long time. Clover is 1 month dry.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Hmmm...first, what the vet says is partially right. But it's not the protein, it's the sugars/carbohydrates causing the laminitis. 
I suspect the clover you are talking about is alfalfa/lucerne?
If so, she can have a little, like 2kg a day, together with the barley straw. Wheat straw would be nicer, it tastes better. Give many small meals during the day so she always has a little to eat. Makes her happy. No grains or pellets, just dried clover and barley straw.


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## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr (Oct 29, 2011)

Okan, neredesin? Kibris? Turkiye?

I am British but live in Turkiye. I can message you. 

Biraz Turkce biliyorum. Insallah yardim verebilirim.

Yonca ot is too much protein. You can give arpa/yulaf *saman* simdi.

Mesaj gonderim sana.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Hallelujah! !!!!Thank you sooo much....hmmm, how would I call you...Confucius?;-)


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

Yay.. glad you can help Confuscius!!


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Love these caring horse owners!!!

I think that your new vet and nail man are doing a good job.
Histavet is an antihistamine, like Claritin, but for horses
Penicillin is an antibiotic (kills the bacteria)
Fulinalgin is a pain reliever and swelling reducer (like asprin)

The last one I don't know what it is, is it Gabapentin?? Gabapentin is a sedative of sorts, although not commonly used in the US.

The cold hose on the legs is a VERY GOOD idea!!! If you can do it more times a day that will help the horse even more. As well if you can find styrofoam:








and cut it to match the horse's feet and tape it on:









It will be soft for the horse to walk on. You have to put a new one on after every time you cold hose though.

Hay for horses to eat looks like this:









And straw, for horses to lie on (they can not eat it) looks like this:









Feed the horse only the hay, and give him lots of straw to lie on.


For the nail man, the horse might eventually need shoes, but while the nails are inflamed putting shoes on will hurt more, and the nails need to heal. When they are not hurting any more then you might have to put shoes on. For right now, the styrofoam will be the best thing to put on the nails.


Good luck!!!


Barley hay is what we are calling straw - it is good for cows, but not horses. Horses lie down on it.
You want Timothy hay to feed to the horses.
http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/134347854/Timothy_hay.html


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi Okan, afraid those pictures aren't much help. Feet need to be clean - I haven't got x-ray eyes that can see through straw & poo:lol: - and different angles needed - again, see the link in my signature below to learn best angles for critique pictures. Be interesting to see what's different now your nail man has been.

**I hope you(and the people working with you) read English OK, or you have a good translation program, because I would advise you to do lots of study and there are some more good sources below. I do appreciate this is a lot of reading and that it is also a lot for anyone new to learning about hooves to understand. Also there are some different theories and approaches, so as with any information, don't just trust it without thought, and don't worry about offending me or anyone if you disagree - we all need to do what we feel is best and make our own decisions, based on the information we have - so the more info the better.... although I hope it doesn't get too confusing!



okan said:


> quarantie me he will help my pony. He said I should not worry a lot.


As I've said, this condition, even as serious as it is for your pony, is now commonly cureable, but to guarrantee it & tell you not to worry, at least without x-rays, sounds a little unrealistic to me. It will take special care and perhaps ongoing special management to cure the horse. 



> I tell him if we will shoe the horse but vet and nail man agreed no need because of that will give him pressure.


Good. I agree. There are different ideas about that and shoes can help with the pain(the symptoms) but not the actual problem that's causing it. I think the same as your nail man, that they ultimately can worsen the problem because they put extra pressure on the hoof wall - the nail - and provide no support and protection under the foot. 



> They all agreed soft barn. Vet said I must but horse legs in cold water everyday 10 minute. Vet said no more food. Horse will be on diet. I will only give horse oat.


:shock::shock: Oats?? The cause of the inflammation & acute pain is usually diet related. Remove the cause and the inflammation will soon stop (there are mechanical problems too that have come out of this, but just explaining in reference to your above advice). So yes, inflammation can be reduced with cold water hosing or 'icing' feet & lower legs, but so long as you've removed the cause, you shouldn't need to do this for long - hopefully a few times daily for a few days will do it.

Yes, horse being on a special diet is important. BUT NO!!! NOT GRAIN!! Oats, other grain or rich, sugary food is a big problem! This is likely to make the pony WORSE, not better! Horses need to be fed roughage - fibrous feed like stemmy grass/hay. Grain and other rich food should be only fed in small amounts only as necessary for extra energy and NOT AT ALL in cases such as this. 

I am completely lost as to why the vet would say such a thing, as it is contrary to everything, so far as I know, including conventional and old information. But perhaps you misunderstood her. Please look at Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Information and Katy Watts | Safergrass.org for more information about healthy diet and diet related disease(especially hoof disease).

Horses also need to eat small amounts nearly constantly and not be left to go hungry for long at all. It is not good for their stomach to be empty. Even a fat horse on a diet needs *at least* about 1.5% his bodyweight every day in feed. So you could feed this in small, frequent amounts daily, or you could put it in a net with small holes, so he can have it all the time but only get tiny amounts and not eat it all quickly. You can also feed straw or soak and drain the hay before feeding, to wash out some of the sugars, if it is still too rich for him.

As for the medecine, I had to look them up on the computer to learn what they are(except I think everyone knows penecillin). *Again I'm not a vet, so I am only telling you what I know based on my experience as a hoof care practitioner(nail woman:wink specialising in rehabilitation of this and other hoof diseases. 

I have not heard of anyone giving an antihistamine inhibitor(Histavet) for laminitic horses. Perhaps the vet thinks the cause is more of an allergic reaction than feed related? I do not know why you would want to give him antibiotic(Penicillin), but horse's gut needs much bacteria to digest food and work properly and antibiotics cause gut problems by killing them, which can also cause laminitis. Therefore if/when antibiotics are necessary, a 'probiotic'(sort of like yoghurt) is also a good idea. Fulinaljin sounds like it is the similar to phenylbutazone, which I mentioned earlier is commonly given & can be helpful to reduce inflammation and pain. It's side effects are usually only when used long term, also gut damage, so another reason to give probiotic to help gut health. I couldn't find anything about Gaboten.



> I talk vet that how I learned this can be laminitis. She said she know laminitis but this is not laminitis. She said this is hoof inflammation.


??:? Laminitis IS hoof inflammation. Even without more information and pictures, I am very confident in saying this IS definitely laminitis, also known as 'founder'. I wonder what her definition of hoof inflammation and laminitis is then. There are also chronic(has been going on for long time) mechanical changes. What is unclear without more information is why the horse is laminitic and how acute the inflammation is and how bad the mechanics - eg. it is possible that the inflammation isn't that bad, but the horse is in such serious pain because the hooves have deformed so badly. 

Please look up Mayfield Barehoof Care Centre Home Page and look at the 'rehabilitation' pages - there is one on laminitis and has 'case studies' to see examples of other horses with this 'disease'. Also Pete Ramey hoof care laminitis founder horse navicular disease thrush equine foot development farrier is a good site, and I recommend this man's DVD set 'Under The Horse' - perhaps you and your vet and farrier(nail man) could share it - I believe it is good enough for you all to learn from it.... assuming language isn't too much of a barrier! Also another good site is Equine Lameness Prevention Organization and that will help you better understand balance and why you need to trim in certain ways... why I drew the lines on your pictures where I did. I have also attached a couple of pictures.



> I told them what we speak here and I do search. But one is proffosor the other one is really experienced nail man. I did not wanted to be rude. At the and vet is proffoser. You can not teach them their job.


Yes, that is another difficult thing. No, of course it won't be taken well if you try to tell them what to do:wink:, but I'd just keep studying, asking lots of questions and discussing what you've learned with them and encouraging them to look at the information too. Much of the information on this disease and the curing of it is based on quite recent scientific research and reasonably new approaches that are proving successful. So it is not an indication that they aren't good at their job or anything if they don't know it all. No one can know everything anyway & we can always learn more.:wink: Perhaps if you asked them to look at the information to see if you are misunderstanding it and whether they agree?



> What I understand from vet and nail man they expect medcines do the most job.


 I disagree thoroughly. The drugs are mainly palliative/symptomatic treatment. What will 'do the job', assuming the horse is 'cureable' is to remove the cause - most commonly diet related, to keep the horse well trimmed to relieve pressure on the walls(nails) and therefore the laminae(connecting tissue) and balance the hooves, to keep the horse comfortable and protected where necessary, to encourage(not force) movement, which increases blood circulation and healing, and to wait until the damage grows out.

Oh, attached pics... don't have x-rays on this computer to show you & don't have a good dissected example of a foundered hoof, but these are personal photos of mine and if you google 'cross section laminitis' or 'hoof xrays' you will find a heap of examples to help you understand.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Whoops, here's the second pic I meant to attach...


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

Hi, Loosi,
1- I will try to make new pics with of clean hoof with many different directions for you. Because ferrier cut the hoofs yesterday.
2- I read and understand loosie just the terms are to much to understand and at one point I lost all. As well as I have no clue about horses especally hoofs. When the ferrier cut the hoofs I do not know if they are doing right or wrong. So I have to accept their job is right. 
3- Do not even think x rays. We do not have this technology in Cyprus.
4- I understand you agree about no shoe? Just to keep the hoof clean and keep horse on on soft floor?
5- I call wet again an she insisted oat. But If you say oat will be problem I will not give oat. I will listen you on this. I will give horse barley straw. Do you agree a give horse litte horse fodo too? Because only straw may be less? 
5- Anabel:Medicines are what vet give. Anabel is right on what medicines. The last one is Gabiotan . I can not discuss about medicines because I have no knowlage. I have to accept vet is knowing her job. Just telling these are what vet give so we both have idea if something wrong or right? from Anabel msg I understand these are right?
6- On Anabel message you see she talk about styrofoam. This is need? I saw on youtube peoples uset it. I want to take your peoples opinion about it?
7- Loosie vet says laminitis chronic and hoof inflammation diffferent .She says bone do not move. She say inflammation between bone and nail. She talk about time. Inflammation can be sure but laminities can not. Bla bla bla. 
8 You say stop the the reason what couse the problem which is food. Ok they agree thats why they said diet. But vet says medicines will comfort the horse pain and stop bacteria. All together.
Confuscius:
I live in north side of Cyprus. My mobile is 00905428520025. I will be happy to contact to you . Maybe you would like to skype or msn. okan.polatkan skype and msn [email protected]

thank you 
deserthorsewoman: 
I think they say the same as well. The other problem for me is fiding the right words here. We grow Vigo and Trifilli here. These are really healthy foods. But I can not find them in english. To make sure I will go on barley straw. And if you all agree just barley straw not enough I want to give little horse food. 
Laminitis turkish name is Arpalama. Arpa mean barley grains. 
I start to belive that cow food have to much protein and other contributions in it. That coused the problem. My opnion.
Spotted:
thank you too 

I will be please if you guys tell me what you think about Anabel idea about styrofoam to put on horse? Necessary or not?


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Okan,
I have no idea what Vigo is but Trifilli seems to be trefoil=clover. Which is the same plant family as lucerne/alfalfa I mentioned. Clovers are lower in sugars than grain and some grass hay so she can have a little, together with the straw. Like I said, no more than 2kg a day. 

Arpalama....barley lameness....makes sense
Think of laminitis as a result from a disease like diabetes in people. Insulin resistance. People cannot have sugar, same with horses. Grain and young grass and cow feed have a lot of sugar. 

The styrofoam is a very good idea. As Anabel said, cut two pieces for the size of the feet and use the silver tape like the one on the picture and make a"shoe" for her. 
I did that for my laminitic horse to go out on pasture. 
There are hoof shoes made out of rubber you can get on the internet. Google "Easyboots" or "old Mac's". You need to measure the nails and can order them through mail. 
Loosie can probably tell you which one's are best.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Just have to say that: im very proud of this forum! People from all over the world come together to help a little pony in Cyprus.
OUTSTANDING!!!!


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

Hi All,
We feel better today. I just finished job with horse. I am really tired. Run here or there. I need another 24 hours for one day. First I send pics than I write


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

Ok here we are. 
Our diet started. You can see at the pics barley straw. I give only one time today. I mix it with little horse food. Tomorrow I will start morning and night. Same mix. All medicines are given. Horse was better walk today. Do not know why . Maybe medicines or nail cut. He even tryed to kick me. His bad habbits coming back. I clean all nails. You can see pictures. I make many photos as possible. If you look you will see nails are pink. On bottom on corners you can see nail is soft. Sorry pics are not so clean. I wash nails with cold water 10 minute as vet and you guys said.
The other thing is this styrofoam. If you guys agree I will go buy tomorrow and do it too. I can do the front legs but if I get back she will kick me. She is waiting me to get her behind long time. So nail man will be necessary for that.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Much better pictures

I can see from the pictures that the pony had the disease for quite some time. 
And you can see that the new nail growing down is healthy and in a much different angle than the older nail. This new angle shows where the bone inside is. If you look at the pictures loosie had posted and drawn lines...you can imagine that your pony's bones are the same. 

The mailman did good, but still needs to take away more, in front and especially on the back of the nails to get the bone where it belongs. Loosie will explain this better and maybe can draw lines again. 
And she has it on all four feet. This is why she is trying to kick you. It hurts her to stand on 3 legs only. 

Remember, don't feed any grain at all. Very important! The straw and a little bit of the clover hay. LITTLE!. 
You are doing great, big compliments


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## Northernstar (Jul 23, 2011)

Welcome to the forum, Okan, and the very best of luck with your sweet pony! You're working hard and doing a great job - so glad there are many here with good advice to help


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

It is wonderful that you are doing so much to help your pony and this will also help your other horses because you are learning so much! 

Loosie will hopefully explain how there is still more work to be done on the nails.

Horses will eat straw, but it is not the same as hay. Barley hay is straw. Hay is long, long grass that is cut and dried. Straw is the stem from grain plants like barley and oats. The picture you show looks like straw. I think there is not any hay in Cyprus from what I read on the Internet. So, you say you are giving her horse food now again. What kind of horse food? If you can not get hay, then we need to find the right kind of horse food. And the right amount. I think this pony also had too much food before.


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## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr (Oct 29, 2011)

Okan, ben email gonderdim sana. Insallah bu kucuk at ilesecek.

Simdi, bence en onemli sey: Atlarin davraniş, beslenme ve sindirim sistemi ogrenebilirsiniz. Internet'dan olabilir. Cok bilgi var. Iyi sanslar sana.


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

WOW I just read this WHOLE thread.. great job Okan for trying so hard for your pony! I hope she gets well soon! praying for her road to recovery


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Okan, (& others) there was someone here a number of months back on Cyprus, that had rescued a foundered horse. Unfortunately in her instance, the story ended badly, but if you were to get onto her maybe she could also help you, based on her experiences.

Haven't time now but will get back to you soon re your last post.


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

Hi,
Who is she? I may get in touch with her. My horse is getting better. I can tell she will start running in a week. I think diet and medicines are doing good job. I put put her legs in cold water everyday 10 minute. Still little hot.
I mix little horse food and give with straw. She is not happy from food I can tell. Need more and more.But diet must be done. She will lose some kilos I thing.
I wait loosie to tell me what she think about hoofs. she did not make comment if cuting was right or not. 

Thank you all

Regards

Okan


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## Gremmy (Feb 17, 2009)

Very interesting thread to read, you are doing very well Okan!



okan said:


> 7- Loosie vet says laminitis chronic and hoof inflammation diffferent .She says bone do not move. She say inflammation between bone and nail. She talk about time. Inflammation can be sure but laminities can not. Bla bla bla.


Just thought I would point this out in case anybody missed it, it looks like there is just some confusion in terminology between us and the vet - what the vet is referring to as laminitis is what we consider founder (rotation of the coffin bone), and what we consider laminitis is simply hoof inflammation over there. Looks like the vet is on the same page, the terms are just different.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Good point


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Okan, haven't forgotten you - hope to have time tomorrow for better reply. In the meantime, I appreciate it's not just language that's your barrier I know, because not being educated particularly in this to begin with, it's a LOT to take in! Don't feel stupid or anything because you don't understand it all! 

So, here's a link to another website - it's by no means complete & I prompted her to finish the Laminitis page when I told her about your situation! It has lots of pictures & diagrams, so hopefully will be easy for you to understand. laminitis 

Yes, Gremmy, can be a bit of an ambiguous term!


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## royalhkay (Sep 13, 2012)

Okan you have a generous and caring heart. If only all horses could be loved the way you love your horse.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

OK,

Firstly I've drawn on some of your pics... & included a couple I prepared earlier:wink:

Okan, it would be good to see pictures taken from near ground level, from exactly side view for more accurate ideas. Looks like your 'nailman' has made a good start. It seems that he's probably left too much toe and perhaps a little too much heel. As I've said, I think it's best to make big changes gradually, so the heels aren't bad you should be able to lower them more at each trim, going no further than sole level. I would also be inclined to have the pony trimmed a little every week or 2 for a while, rather than leaving it the normal 6 weeks and removing a lot.

I would immediately remove all that excess wall around the toe and bevel it back to the 'white line'. I have drawn a blue line on your sole photo showing approximately where I'd cut it back to *Do not touch the sole with rasp or knife!

The sole picture with green lines across it shows front to back balance - the middle line should be the middle of the foot, the line across the toe the 'breakover' and the dotted line approximately where the to wall should be.

I have included a 'before and after' of the first trim I did(yesterday!) on a foundered pony, with those lines to show balance. If you can stand any more technical information:wink:, Equine Lameness Prevention Organization explains why these measurements are relevant. As you can see by the lines, how I trimmed has still left a bit more toe than is necessary, but without xrays, history of pony, etc, I like to play safe. You can see that even though the toe is still long, I have removed a LOT and bevelled it strongly. I also only gently scraped that excess sole away with the blunt side of my knife. Anything that wasn't removed with that pressure is probably best left there for now.

Of your other pictures that I drew on, may not be very accurate, because of the angles. But will give you an idea i hope, Along with the pictures on laminitis. If you look at the angle the hoof is growing at the very top, this will give you an idea of how 'flared' or 'run forward' it is.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

> 2- I read and understand loosie just the terms are to much to understand and at one point I lost all. As well as I have no clue about horses especally hoofs. When the farrier cut the hoofs I do not know if they are doing right or wrong. So I have to accept their job is right.



Yes, I sympathise! There is a LOT to learn, even if you speak English! Just do the best you can & keep learning, but don't try to learn it all at once – difficult when you're in a situation that you need to know it NOW! Unfortunately I haven't found any short cuts for learning!



> 5- I call wet again an she insisted oat. But If you say oat will be problem I will not give oat. I will listen you on this. I will give horse barley straw. Do you agree a give horse litte horse fodo too?



I would be interested to ask her why she believes oats and not hay/straw or such. Yes, if the 'horse food' does not have grain, sugar added(molasses) and is cut grasses and such, it should be OK. I disagree with (Anabel?) that horses shouldn't eat straw. It is a good roughage for horses for diets because it has very little energy. It also has very little nutrition(vitamins) so the horse will benefit from some vitamins if that is possible.





> 7- Loosie vet says laminitis chronic and hoof inflammation diffferent .She says bone do not move. She say inflammation between bone and nail.



Yes, it is the corium – the meat between bone and nail which is inflamed. This damages the laminae, the tissue the nail grows from, which is why it is called 'laminitis'. 'Chronic laminitis' is a progression of the 'disease' which also has changes to the shape of the hoof and the bone inside, which is no longer on the same angle as the hoof wall. Some people have different definitions of this and some people only call the inflammation laminitis and call the mechanical changes 'founder'. Your vet obviously only calls chronic mechanical changes laminitis.


BUT this does not explain why she believes this is not chronic and the bone 'do not move'. Without better photos at least, or xrays there is some room for doubt, but it is still quite obvious to me these changes are present.


Hopefully the diagrams and photos on my friend's site will explain better.




> She talk about time. Inflammation can be sure but laminities can not. Bla bla bla.



I assume you mean “ Inflammation can be *cured* but laminitis can not”? Yes, it is still common belief that chronic laminitis can not be cured – and in some cases it may be too bad to cure – but recent science and evidence has shown that in most cases, it can all be cured!


Oh and sorry can't remember the name of the girl from Cyprus and can't find it. Does anyone else here remember who?


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

I tried to find the other poster from Cyprus, but didn't have any luck either.

Okan, maybe you can buy pressed hay/grass pellets or cubes in Cyprus? I don't know what's available there for food, but you want low, low energy. Nutrients and roughage yes, but low calories and no sugar. The straw will provide the roughage, but as Loosie said, not the nutrients. Does your feed bag/box/container give a listing of the ingredients and/or the nutrient and caloric counts?


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi Okan, how's it going with your pony?


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

Hi All,
I been bussy so I did not have time to reply back. Sorry. We are not doign any better. The medicines have been given. At first pony started to walk better but now we are back to same. I think medicines help some to stop pain or the trim make her more confortable. I have seen the pictures that you draw. I talk to nail man to come back so we cut nails again but on the pictures you show it need to much cut that I do not think it will be possible. I do not think medicines will help her either. Do not know what to do yet.

I stop food as I said before. I give only straw with little horse food. And I can tell horse is not happy from that. 

In 2 days nail man will come and we will see what will happen.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

okan said:


> I talk to nail man to come back so we cut nails again but on the pictures you show it need to much cut that I do not think it will be possible.


Need is the big word here. She NEEDS all that excess toe wall removed. She NEEDS her heels lowered, which will cause the pedal bone to be on a lesser angle. While it's unclear how much you could lower the heels immediately, that toe wall can come off & be bevelled now. Then I would suggest small, frequent trims(every week or 2) for a while, so you can gradually get them in better shape.

Sorry to hear she's doing no better. Have you been padding her feet with foam or such?


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

Hi loosie,
these are the new photos of pony after we trim her hoofs. Please have a look and let us know if we are doign any good. The nail man said that this is what he understand from your samples. He say backs are fine. for the fronts he says this is the as much as he can cut. If we cut more blood may come out or horse will suffer much more pain. I will wait your answer. thank you 

Okan Polatkan


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Great pics Okan, very helpful! Looks like you & your nail man have done well so far. 



> If we cut more blood may come out or horse will suffer much more pain.


I agree *thoroughly* that you don't want to cut down to blood! Apparently some people disagree with this:shock: but I believe the principle 'first do no harm' is VERY important here! I would only consider cutting into live tissue if a knowledgeable vet was looking over my shoulder telling me I should... and had given the horse anesthetic for it!:wink: As much as we need to make big changes as quickly as possible, we still need to be careful not to go too far, as it is not just the outside of the hoof that is 'wrong', but the inside has changed along with it. We need to be gradual enough to *encourage & allow* that to change without cutting into it.

I try to be as clear and simple in my information as possible, being aware of language difficulties as well as trying not to be to 'technical', but please tell me if you don't understand.... you wouldn't be the first to tell me that anyway!:wink:

Again, I've drawn on your pics to help you understand what I'm trying to say... *Blue* lines indicate where I'd *trim* this foot to *now*. *Green* lines indicate approximately where I think this foot *'should'* grow if it were *healthy. *
 Some signs that give me these ideas and let me know how far is safe, include the *angle of the toe wall & pastern*(ankle) at the top of the hoof, *angle of the hairline* (coronary border), the *flares* at the toe and the *a/p(front to back) balance* as shown on the sole picture. It's not as good as an x-ray of course, but if you know what you're looking at, you can get a fairly good idea of what's underneath. ****Of course, don't forget I'm only going off a few photos too, so don't take it as definitely accurate.

Regarding her toes, I would still take them back & bevel them a bit further. But as can be seen from the front view hoof on the ground picture, you have it bevelled into the epidermal(outer) laminae anyway, so if you're not confident about going further, keeping it that short will still be very helpful. I would however, continue the bevel as much as you have done, towards her quarters - the sides of her feet too, as shown in this picture with the dotted blue line. 

In the side-on picture that I rotated (15 degrees) while it isn't quite square side-on(I know, it's difficult!) so it isn't quite accurate, you can see just how much extra toe there is, and more to the point, just how high the heels are, which is forcing the 'rotation'. 

While it appears you probably _can't_ go too much further with the heels *yet*, I think you can afford to cut them a bit shorter - level with the *well scraped out* sole at the heel - and bevel them a bit. If you keep them this short, compared to the sole, and trim little but often, the sole will change and gradually(or sometimes suddenly) the heels will get shorter.

Only thing that in my opinion you have done wrong, and probably the reason she hasn't yet got any better(not expecting miracles, but can expect improvement), is to cut into the sole, particularly in the *red striped area around the toe - DO NOT EVER THIN THIS AREA!* This area under the pedal bone is already VERY thin - I imagine if you press your thumb on it, you can probably move it? - and desperately needs to grow thicker for protection. This is a real risk of 'cutting into blood' at the moment. I would definitely be keeping her well protected with soft footing &/or foam for now.

With the high heels, and it looks like still some loose powdery stuff near the heels, there may be a little more that can be scraped away there, but I would not even touch the red striped area with more than a pick or a brush, at least until the feet are healed. As a rule(there are exceptions), I don't like to remove any more than loose flakey stuff from the soles of healthy hooves even.

Hope that helps! How is the little girl at the moment? How are you managing with her special needs?


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

Hi Loosie,
Thank you for draving. Nails man thiks blue lines are too deep to cut off. On the first pic you dray how much more we should cut off and what you expect it to be in futher. Bu that can be done in time? On the second pic I seee you try to make sides more close . I did not show the nail man these. Soon we will meet and talk. On the third pic I tell him to cut more but he did not listen me. He keep saying that enough for now. I understand this from your first time draw.
On forth picture you expect horse to have hoof as you draw on green line.I understand the front craw but what is the middle and back draw for? 
It shows her nain muct be wider?
On last pic blue line I told them that muct but cuted. But they no listen. to be honnest I can see horse was in to much pain not east to hold. for the red draw. He did not not try to make it thin. He just clear it as normal I think. But if I was him ı would not touch thic area as well. Because what I understand is this will help bone to move up when she step on it?


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Maybe I can help with explaining. Sometimes somebody who has English as a second language can explain simpler to somebody else with English as second language;-)

The nails have to be cut as loosie's blue lines show. The bone inside has moved with the tip down, you can see that where it's red. Now, if you cut the heel, the back of the nail, more down, the tip of the bone comes up, doesn't touch the ground and the pain goes slowly away. If you look at the green lines, this is how the foot would stand if the heel wasn't so high. You can see it shows the tip touching the ground. So, getting the bone inside in the right position is most important now to make her more comfortable. The nailman should do this every week or every two weeks. Right now, as loosie said, he could cut a little more off.


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## Annanoel (Mar 29, 2011)

What an AMAZING thread. It's amazing what the power of avid horse lovers and the internet can do! Good luck Okan!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Thanks for chipping in, desert!:wink: I wonder where all the other 'hoofspurts' have got to, not joining in on this thread...



okan said:


> Nails man thiks blue lines are too deep to cut off. On the first pic you dray how much more we should cut off and what you expect it to be in futher. Bu that can be done in time?


Of course, you would be ill advised to just take my word for it blindly. That said, I am very confident that my blue lines will not be too far for her immediately. Yes, if you cut them & keep them like that, while gradually lowering the heels with little, frequent trims, in future, hopefully the foot will become like the green lines. 

I think it's probably not absolutely *necessary* to take his toes back any more than they are, *so long as they're kept strongly bevelled*, but the heels need to be shorter as soon as possible, *but no further than the hard sole*. The sole will change over time so they can gradually be shortened more.



> On forth picture you expect horse to have hoof as you draw on green line.I understand the front craw but what is the middle and back draw for? It shows her nain muct be wider?


Sorry, not sure I understand. This is the drawing of 3 green lines across the hoof? These lines are to show what front to back balance of the foot *should* be (see Equine Lameness Prevention Organization for more information & reasons). There should be half(1/2) the foot behind that middle line and half in front. So the curved line at the toe shows where the toe should be and how much excess there is. This is one thing that indicates it would be safe to remove the toe to the blue line(which still leaves extra).

[/quote]But they no listen. to be honnest I can see horse was in to much pain not east to hold. for the red draw. He did not not try to make it thin. He just clear it as normal I think. But if I was him ı would not touch thic area as well. Because what I understand is this will help bone to move up when she step on it?[/QUOTE]

If she is still in a lot of pain & difficult to trim, soft, thick foam, or even, believe it or not, a piece of rough fabric, like a towel (works by proprioceptors) under the other foot will help. Yes, she needs to be able to *comfortably* stand on that foot before it will start really healing. I would not 'clear as normal' if it involved a knife, as it appears to have done.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Maybe they do as I do, letting you deal with it as to not make things even harder. I just felt I should try to explain in more "foreigner" terms, why and what. I've been in a similar situation being in Italy, with little knowledge of the language, trying to explain this way of trimming to a conventional, but thankfully open-minded farrier .....not easy!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

deserthorsewoman said:


> I just felt I should try to explain in more "foreigner" terms,


Thought I was doing well there, but no first-hand experience of getting such technicalities across to non-English speakers.... not that it's always easy to get across to people that speak the language anyway, so need all the help I can get!:wink:


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Wishing I could do a 'beam me up Scotty' to Cypress right now!


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## Captain Evil (Apr 18, 2012)

Loosie, the time you are taking and help you are offering are awesome. You are my hero.

Okan, I was given a little pony with laminitis, and she got well. It takes time, and a lot of work. You are trying so hard... Keep her as comfortable as you can, and good luck. We are all thinking of you.


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## alexis rose (Oct 1, 2012)

I just read the whole thread and it made my heart happy that there are so many people on here that care about that pony and just want it to get better. Keep up the good work everybody!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

loosie said:


> Thought I was doing well there, but no first-hand experience of getting such technicalities across to non-English speakers.... not that it's always easy to get across to people that speak the language anyway, so need all the help I can get!:wink:


You are absolutely right, I had my share of the latter too;-)
It shouldn't be too hard to understand, since it's very logical. For the folks who speak the language. 
In our case a translating program of some kind and a dictionaries comes into play and that can make it even harder. I've seen the weirdest things happening with those....had a Polish Arabian turned into a Polish sausage once


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

loosie said:


> Thanks for chipping in, desert!:wink: I wonder where all the other 'hoofspurts' have got to, not joining in on this thread.../QUOTE]
> 
> Yup, I'm just watching, reading and learning. This is too critical for non-pros to chime in to. What you are saying makes sense and is helping. I am glad that everyone is leaving it to you because too many voices in this thread would probably make it very difficult for Okan. Things are improving as Okan and you communicate, so no need for anyone else to interfere!


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

I too have a small pony who has foundered almost annually for the past 10 years. I won't get into her nitty-gritty's but I here's what we do for her.
She also has very bruised (red) feet when she gets trimmed, from her bones not being aligned correctly. We use gel saddle pads or towels or anything especially soft and squishy for her to stand on while she's getting her feet trimmed. It's very difficult for her to stand on 3 feet, but with the soft stuff under her she's much more comfortable. 
We have to be very careful not to let her eat too much grass. The short new grass in the beginning of the spring is especially high in sugar, this is what typically triggers her to founder. It typically takes the entire length of the summer to get her over this. Bute and other pain killers simply don't do a thing for her. Her entire diet is alfalfa/timothy hay cubes soaked and hay stretcher pellets - she remains quite 'healthy' on that. 
Loosie is fantastic with feet, I think following her drawings will provide a great chance for your pony's recovery, if your nail trimmer won't cut that short quickly, just call him back every couple weeks to take off a little more each time. 
The only other thing that really helps my pony is getting her feet cleaned every day, at least once. When her feet have mud packed in them it applies pressure on the soft bruises, so the cleaner the better. 
We also have another horse who hasn't foundered but he has constant abscesses. We found the best way to trim his feet was to rotate. Rather than doing one foot entirely then moving onto the next - we would start on one foot until he was sore, then move to the next foot until he was sore, then the next, then back to the first. Doing a little bit on each foot around and around until each foot is done. It takes patients - but the horse really appreciates it. 
We keep both those horses' stalls extra full of bedding, we use wood pellets that turn to saw dust when wet - you may be able to find saw dust bedding near you, it's especially soft and fluffy, keep the stall as clean as you can. 

You're doing such a great job <3 It makes me feel so good to see people trying so hard for their equine friends.  Thank you


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

deserthorsewoman said:


> ....had a Polish Arabian turned into a Polish sausage once


:lol::lol:Better than pre-emptive text, huh??


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

loosie said:


> :lol::lol:Better than pre-emptive text, huh??


Kinda weird when this Polish Arabian/sausage is a highly priced multi champion


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

There's no accounting for these gourmets!


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

hi all,
i hope you are all fine. we are better these days. no medicine but walking getting better. diet is still continue. she is geting usr to i think. i show new pictures to nailman. he said he understand and we will do it in few cuting. ve decide to cut once a 10 day. he also suggested we use something to make pony more confortable. but we now need to ask question. watch this vid please. 



on this vid we find the blue pads. but this man use some kind of plasters under the hoof. 
nainman ask if this plasters are special? or the same ones we use to play when we were child?
if we use these plasters hoof will not get soft?
or can we do it without plasters?
we will not do it if you do not suggest.
thank you for all your good comments and helps.
*deserthorsewoman : you are better explain *

*thank you *


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

Hi Loosie,
I hope you are fine. you ddi not reply my last. I accept that you are bussy. But we are folloving you nail man will come this week to cut as you draw. He wonder if he bring peds or not. As well as he ask if he can use biotin which help nails grow faster. 

thank you for your help

Okan Polatkan


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Hi Okan;-)
Good to hear that pony is a little better

I don't think the pads are necessary now. Have the nailman cut how loosie says. 
Remember the styrofoam " shoes" somebody suggested earlier? Basically the same as these pads. The nailman could make the first set and show you how to do it. 
Biotin is a good idea. If it is a powder, soak a little of the feed she eats now and add the biotin. So she eats it for sure. 
Can you take pictures of "before" and "after" when the nailman comes next time?
I think she will be again better after the next trim


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Sorry Okan, my computers too slow to bother with videos & haven't got around to looking at that for you on another machine yet. 

If she's still hurting when walking on hard surfaces and pads make a difference, yes, I'd use them. Whatever it takes to get her comfortably able to move & exercise more, without force. If she seems comfortable now & happy & motivated to exercise, great! As desert says, if you can get styrofoam or such to tape on her feet, even a disposable baby diaper/nappy or such, this should do & if that video showed anything more elaborate, no great need.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Loosie, correct me if this isn't appropriate for his situation. But many times when we need to hold medicine on a horse's hoof or to protect their hooves from something or another, like our boy with white line disease we use baby diapers. 

We pick up the hoof and put the daiper on like as if it were a baby's bottom, then duct tape it on VERY securely. But very careful that we are only taping and securing the diaper to the solid part of the hoof, not touching above the hoof - where skin and fur is. Trying to use terms Okan might be able to translate. This gives them a nice cushion to walk on. I've only ever used it for a horse who only had 1 hoof that needed it at a time, not all 4, but I don't know why not to use it unless the horse is uncomfortable moving with their feet wrapped like that? We also changed the diaper and cleaned the hoof with Hydrogen Peroxide once a day, but that was for abscesses or white line disease, not founder. 

Could that be beneficial for Okan's pony? Okan - Let's wait and see if Loosie says this is a good idea or not before doing it.  I'm so inspired by your devotion to this pony <3 It really renews my faith in humanity to see you devoting this much time and energy into this pony - thank you! And everyone else of this forum working to help him too!


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

okan said:


> nainman ask if this plasters are special? or the same ones we use to play when we were child?
> if we use these plasters hoof will not get soft?


The plasters are a compression material = Sıkıştırma malzemesi


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

PunksTank -- in this case, the purpose of the padding is to provide pain relief, not for medications. The relief of pain will encourage more movement which will in turn aid in the recovery of this pony.


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## arrowattack09 (Jul 10, 2012)

Okan, 

You post new picture after nail trim? We see if nailcutter do good job.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Arrowattack -- not to be rude, truly, but good english is preferred over trying to imitate someone who is making every effort to communicate to us outside of his mother language. Honestly, take it from someone who has learned languages: we prefer to have a foreign language spoken/written to us properly.


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

Wow, I just read through this entire thread. As someone else mentioned, it makes me so happy to see everyone pitch in to help a little pony in Cyprus! I don't have any advice to offer but the other posters seem very knowledgeable. Best of luck to you Okan! :hug: What is your pony's name? Forgive me if you already said, but I don't remember seeing it.


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

Hi My Friends,
I hope you are all fine. I have attached new pictures of triming 14/11/2012. On the picstures you will see hoofs are geting to thair normal size ( this what nail man says and what I understand from Loosie drawing pictures). This week we will have all horses nail cut .

The bad news is pony ( Apache ) still suffering lots from pain. Most of the time she is lying on floor. Flys bothering her a lot. I put many fly catcher to stop it. We are still on diet and she lose lots weigh. 

When we were triming her she give us lots of trouble. It was difficult to hold her . She was ( ramping if correct ) and trying bite. Probably from pain. Sometimes i think and think that she do that because she no want nail cut. Maybe she try to tell us not cut my nails.

Everyday looking her eyes and seee her crying from pain hurting a lot. She cry from pain. You can see the tear coming from her eyes. You can see that from her face. Nail man says he is cuting nails as loosie explains. Nail man talk about he have hopes . 

But I am losing my hopes. I think I have big sin letting her suffer pain. 
How long it will take her to get better? This is a long time?


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

here more pics from last nail cut. I will try to explain on other 2 pics how we cut


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi Okan,

I'm very sad that things haven't got much better for her yet:-(. Is she on any pain medicine now? Are you padding her feet at all & is that making any difference? 

Your pictures show that your nail man is doing a very good job I think! Again I have drawn on some pictures to explain better. green lines where I think foot *should* be, blue lines to trim now to help them grow like that. 

I would bevel - cut on angle away from ground - the toes back even more, starting at the blue line on the sole(underneath) picture - you can see the clear change in colour and texture outside the blue line which shows this is all horn(outer nail) and safe to cut. I think you could go even further than that, but with no xrays and with only photos to tell me, I think more may not be safe. So I would not touch anything inside the blue line at all, even if it is sticking out. I would also cut the heels on an angle that they 'should' be, without cutting into the sole(only the outside nail). These things *should* help her to be more comfortable soon.

How long will it take her to get better? I am still hopeful that it will be soon but unfortunately they are all very different so I don't know. As I said earlier, unfortunately we cannot be sure that she will get better, you can only do your best and hope. I do believe it is not fair to keep a horse in pain for a long time if it isn't getting better, that sometimes it is best to end it if you don't think things will get better enough. But that is a question I cannot help you with I'm afraid:-(. 

Please do not ever think that you sin for trying to help her - you are a truly wonderful man(so is your nail man I think!) and I pray very much that she improves soon, for you as well as her. Whatever happens, do not think you sin because I know you are doing everything you possibly can for her. I hope you have someone there for lots of :hug:and I wish that I could!


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

Ok here I show some how we cut


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

Hi loosie,
Just sow your picutues and msg. We not giving her any medicine for pain. If you remember one period we give her differnt medicines. But thats complete now. I do not know if we start again serie of medicines again. We agreed on diet and nail cut. We put her to much needle. After some time when she needle she was backing off us. 
We did not use any pad because we did not find the plaster thing. We do not know is we can use pad without plasters? Or some peoples on form offered diaper? Diaper will work? She is alrady on soft hay.
I understand green lines and blue lines but we can not go blue lines. It is so so deep. Blood will come out. And even like this we can not hold her when cuting. 
After last nail cut she get worse. I send you some pics to show how we cut. 

Sole is hard. We cut as deep as we can but even taking sole deep we can not cut the nail from bottom. We cut it front. You will see on picture.


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

Loose nail man will come this sunday again. If we cut nails as you draw on picture and blood come out what we will face with?


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

If we are going to cut that deep we will need to drug her before we start cuting. Otherway he no let us.


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

Just wondering by looking at pictures. Is there a way we needle her just little up of hoof with antibiotic? Or this is possible???


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Oh the problems with giving advice with only photos! I think I know why the pony is still in pain now and so there is a much better chance she will improve soon.

I have drawn red lines on the first picture, about where the bone in the hoof is now. There is a thin layer of meat around the bone, so you can see that there is VERY little outside layer underneath to protect it. It needs desperately to be allowed to grow thicker to protect the foot inside it. DO NOT cut on the bottom of this foot at all! Only cut the wall - outside nail around it. On the second underneath picture, the area filled with red lines should NOT be touched with any tool, and the area with orange lines should only be cut VERY cautiously. I would only remove anything from there if it was loose/soft.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

No Okan, you don't want to go even close to blood! Help Desert?? Do you think I'm not explaining well enough because of language difference??


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

we were doing wrong than. nailman try to cut sole first than when wall level difference he cut the wall. but not much left so he cut it from front . We were doing all wrong. we were cuting red area on second picture as well as orange area more deeper because we try to catch blue lines.


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

if we no touch sole and jsut cut nail walls that mean in time sole will touch floor but not walls?


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## Annanoel (Mar 29, 2011)

Okan, generally the only part of the sole that needs to be removed is what sheds off or is flaking off in between trims. The sole needs to be left intact to provide protection for the bottom of the hoof. Over time it hardens up and if you leave it alone and only trim what flakes off she should be a lot more comfortable. This may be contributing to some of her pain, I would have the nail man leave her soles alone and just work on trimming back the front part of her hoof and other areas loosie drew on the picture. Try to pad the bottom of her hoof as well to give it some protection until it hardens. Once it does it will be easier for her to stand, and shouldn't hurt as bad. You're doing a great job! Loosie should be around soon I would guess!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Im here
Yrs, Okan, you cannot touch the sole. It is very thin from the bone inside in the wrong position. Where loosie put the red lines don't touch!!! This is protection for the bone. In the back, as loosie says, careful, but it has to come down to put the bone in the right place. This is why we say cut only the back every 10 days or so to bring the bone in the right position. Little at a time so the tendon who is attached to the bone does not stretch too much. 
To cut the walls, nailman can do this from above instead of underneath easier. Especially at the toe. Go from loosie's blue line up and cut/rasp in a 45 degree angle. 
And yes she will have to carry her weight on the whole sole, not on the walls. 
This is very important, because when the wall carries, the force of her weight will pull the nails away from the bone even more. 
I know it is hard to see her down so much and it can take time until she really gets better. It takes time because the nails have to grow down healthy, 1 cm a month. 

You are on the beach, right? Can you make her her own beach in her stall maybe? Put at least 15cm of sand on the floor instead of hay? That will make it easier and less painful for her to stand. And when she gets better a bit, give her also some hard ground to stand and move(it helps to get the blood circulating in the foot=growth). 

Losing the weight is good, but she needs proper nutrition. Can you find a vitamin/mineral supplement for horses and give her this together with the biotin and a little horsefeed?


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

I'm just loving this and continuing to be inspired by Loosie and Desert and all the others! ^^

I love the idea of filling her stall with sand, this will help her a great deal. If you do this though, put her food in a plastic bucket (even any hay or grass she's eating) don't let her eat off the sandy floor. This can cause colic (very deadly stomach problems). 
That's about all I know that I could add.
Okan you're doing a wonderful job, this pony is so lucky to have you!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Forgot something
For cutting her nails....my horse tried to bite also. It is from pain. I took some carrots and cut them in small pieces and everytime the nailman took a foot I gave her a small piece of carrot. She learned very quickly that giving the foot means carrot and concentrated more on the carrots than on the pain. 
Also, a soft blanket folded put under the foot on the ground while holding the other up makes it easier on her. 
Or styropor pads. The kind they use for insulating house walls. This is also what you can use to make her "shoes".


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Forgot again....grrr....when her nails are where they have to be, you can get " hoof boots" for her to protect her feet and help her to move better. Easyboots or Old Macs you can find on eBay or order from the US. Not yet, because they are not cheap and might not fit right for long because her feet still change.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Could try wrapping her feet in something like diaper pads (Translation?) held on with tape - maybe just at night so the feet can breath during the day? I've done this with laminitics and horses that have had abcesses.
Great job everyone


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## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr (Oct 29, 2011)

Merhaba Okan! Argghh I just read all this. Hepsi yeni okudum.

Uzgunum. Loosie'den sen hersey anlatin sandim. 

I do not know enough about hoof like Loosie to explain and translate all technical words. Arghh bu cok zor!! 

Diaper = bebek bezi

Not sure what I can translate here? And what is being understood? What can I add in on this awful situation?


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Glad you're still following this
Can you explain to her how to make shoes out of styrofoam pads and duct tape? She can put them on for a couple of hours a day to make pony a bit more comfy and get her moving.


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## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr (Oct 29, 2011)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Glad you're still following this
> Can you explain to her how to make shoes out of styrofoam pads and duct tape? She can put them on for a couple of hours a day to make pony a bit more comfy and get her moving.


Ok here goes:

Okan, atinin ayak altinda kopuk gibi bir sey koyabilirsin. Koli band beraber yapistirirbilirsin.
Gunde bir, iki saate bunu yapabilirsin. At biraz yurumek lazi ve kopuk biraz rahatlik vercek. Insallah.

Bu website, biraz resim var. Boyle yapabilirsin.

http://www.hopeforsoundness.com/cms/styrofoam-support-pad-instructions.html


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Thanks
I've tried to explain the technicalities in as simple words as possible, but feel a lot better now, having you here to help out


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## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr (Oct 29, 2011)

Problem is, Okan may understand the english better than my attempted translated Turkish? 

Anyhow Im offline for a bit now. If you need anything more I can at least try.


Okan, if you want say Turkish and I can read that better and translate it to English? I understand more than what I can type back.


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

Hi,
The thing that we did not understand is we should not touch sole so sole touch ground and not hoof walls. That way sole make pressure on bone and bone move up. If this is right understanding? 
When you do not understand exactly what is the mentality of what you doing you do wrong. 
But I can inform you all than her sole so hard that nail man knife do not ort cut it easy. He was complaining last time it is so hard.

Thanks ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr for giving this link. 
Styrofoam Support Pad Instructions
ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr Wanna have a short trip to Cyprus on me?

Let me go out find köpuk. I will try to do it tonight


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## Trinity3205 (Dec 21, 2010)

Loosie is correct. Leave the sole at the toe bottom since the bone is pointing down at it and the sole is thin there, but DO rasp the heels from the back at a new angle. You will probably see more pink bruising. That is ok. The heels MUST be trimmed at the new angle to get the pony OFF the tip of its coffin bone at the toe where it tipped. It must be done. You will only be trimming wall for the most part from the back of the heel, not too much sole. This will make the hoof have a new angle.

These two things will make a big difference. Right now, the pony is standing on a hang nail that hurts at the toe and the bone is placed wrong inside the hoof capsule. The only way to fix it is by trimming the proper angles and ignoring the distorted old hoof capsule. The hoof capsule, or nail, around the bone is in the wrong position and not telling us the truth about where the bone is so we have to "see" with X ray eyes by mapping the foot and looking at the new growth. We cant move the old hoof capsule, we have to grow out a new one and trim the old away as it grows down. 

To do this, first we have to get the bones inside the old hoof in the right position.... Its all about the bones now, no matter what the outside hoof looks like. The outside hoof is lying about where to trim it because it is distorted from the founder. It is no longer properly placed around the bones. 

I find that if I use the rasp from the top and follow the new proper growth line and remove much of the toe flare from the top side, it is easier to see the proper angle of the bone inside and where to place the heel angle. There is enough tighter growth now to take more of this flare that is just pulling away from the bone as the pony grows and walks. The sole is lying at where the bone is. It isnt true sole.

Right now, the heel height is fine for what is there, just the angle is wrong. Fix the angle from the back of the heel (no need to tought alot of sole) and let it tip the foot back more so the bone can be in better line. 

Im searching for pictures or videos as I find they explain better than words ever do.


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## Trinity3205 (Dec 21, 2010)

Your pony looks similar to this...










It needs to be trimmed down to look closer to this as much as possible every time.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Thanks, Trinity
I was thinking of putting x rays up of a foundered and a healthy foot to let her see why it's so important to trim the heel to de-rotate. You can beat me to it, since im operating from a cell*hinthint*


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## Trinity3205 (Dec 21, 2010)

Red lines are needed. See how little you can take from the heel but change the angle? See how thin the sole covering the bone is at the toe? You cant trim under the bone there. Only take away from the front or bevel AHEAD of the bones from the bottom.


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## Trinity3205 (Dec 21, 2010)

You take the flared toe away and make it the same line as the good growth from the top front of the foot.

Then you have to check the bottom that it is the same from the bottom of the hoof around the bone circle. It should be the same place to end from both sides.

Look here. The blue will be trimmed away because it is wrong angles. Take it as much as you can and stop if you see any liquid blood till next trimming. Pink bruising is ok to trim through.


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

Here the peds


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Good job!!!
When the styrofoam flattens, just tape another one under and you can go one more day. Is she a little more comfortable with her new shoes?


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## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr (Oct 29, 2011)

okan said:


> Hi,
> The thing that we did not understand is we should not touch sole so sole touch ground and not hoof walls. That way sole make pressure on bone and bone move up. If this is right understanding?
> 
> Let me go out find köpuk. I will try to do it tonight


At ayağı acisinin degismesi cok gerekiyor. Okce torpulenmesi gerekiyor.
Aci degismek dan sonra, yavasca icinde kemik değiştirecek ve uyarlar.


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## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr (Oct 29, 2011)

Bence biraz daha kalin kopuk koyabilirsin. Yoksa daha fazla koy.

Yer beton. :-( Atin altinda kalin saman, kum koy. At yumsak yer lazi.


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

Ok start.
I make the peds by (köpük) which is when you buy new tv they have it in box to safe tv. The back of the hoof I make thick and the front thin. This will be for tomorrow I take them off? ( if he does not take them bite )

You have give me big explanation trinidity. Thanks its so complicated with lots of new words in it. To make it simple I will write only what I understand.
1-For start we agreed all not touch sole.
2-We rasp heel but no bruise there. bruise in front oh hoof. Look pic In send 5 th one. Yu will see it is white and good. We will rasp more this week end. But the angle I no know how. %20 % 30?? How we will decide it?
3-I understand the bone is in wrong position and I should not cut sole so when pony walk and sole touch ground more this will help bone to get in place?
4- If I cut blue area that you draw I am sure I will bleed the hoof that I really no want. If I cut that much I probably see the bone.
If you look 14 th picture I send from bottom back hoof to meet is just 7 cm something.
5- I can not trim the sides of the hoof can I ?

these all I understand. If you can make it simple saying cut here , cut not cut here, or not touch bla bla with simple words I get it better. Short sentences
Thank you


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr,
Köpükleri her gun degisecem. Aslında 3 cm yani az da degil. Yumusak köpük. At rahat yurusun diye. Atın altına kum koymak istemem cunki soguk olur hasta olur. Bol bol bala atarım ki zemin yumusak olsun.
Birkac gunlugune misafirim olurmusun. Burda olursan daha fazla yardımcı olabılırmısın?


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr
Trinity3205 diyor ki mavi olan kısmı kes diyor. 
1-ben bunu kesersem kesin kanama yapar.
2-O kadar cok kesmek mumkunmu? Ya kanarsa? Ya kemik gorunurse?
3- Ayagin açısını degısmem gerekiyor da bun nasıl yamacam? Tupugu geserek mi? Kesersem ne kadar kesecem? Bunun olcusu varmı?


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

Köpüğü arkada kalın onde ince olacak sekilde kesdim ki atın tabanı yere bassın.
Aslına bakarsan son kesimde nalbant mayadan fazla almis olabilir. Belki bundan dolayı bu sekilde oldu.


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

Bu resimdeki gibi yapmaya calısıyoruz. Ama mayaya dokunmamamız gerektigini bılmıyorduk. Nalbant tırnagı kesebılmek icin inceltmeye calısıyor kı kesebilsin. Onu her defasında daha fazla kesıyoruz ama kanamasından korktugumuz icin cok cok fazla almıyoruz. Alın derseniz alırım ama kanarsa ne yaparım bilmem. Burdaki veterinlerler hic birseyden anlamıyor. Sonra atı oldurmek zorunda kalmak istemiyorum.
At da git gide huysuz oluyor. Tutması bile dert. 8-10 şaha kalkıyor.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Im lost.........


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## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr (Oct 29, 2011)

Okan, bekle. Loosie, desert ve baskalari soru sorucam.

OK he is saying that he will rasp the heel, but he's not sure how much. I'll try and explain to copy the amount on the pictures. He is also saying he is petrified to rasp the front wall of the toe. He says he is almost sure it will bleed and he doesnt want to risk that. I feel so sorry for him and this pony. It's hard enough for me trying to translate the small amount I've done, so god knows what it must be like for him typing it out in English. The white picture shows the incorrect way to put the foam on so I'll explain that to him. He's saying hes desperate and doesn't want to put the horse to sleep but he's worried he might have to.
Ok action time.
Heels: he says he will rasp them, no problem. Can anyone tell me what should be done to the front of that hoof? It is pink but is it guaranteed that it will bleed? or just appears that it will bleed? I have a feeling that he is totally against doing that. So please someone explain to me how and if it is ok to go through that pink area? If not, should it just be done slower and just have the heel rasped for the moment.

Okan bekle.


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

ok my last pic tonight. You say me to cut blue. Yellow is wall of hoof. If I do that and cut lots blood will not come out? and bone will not be so close to wall?


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I'll let loosie and/or Trinity do the explicit explaining, all I'll throw in from experience, is that the heels are important. How much can be taken down at one time, again, I leave to the pro's.as for the toe, there should be no blood, as long as he rasps from above, vertically down. It will look horrible, and it takes guts, but it will help. No touching the front half of the sole, not even as much as just accidently sliding the rasp over. Hence the rasping from above. 
If it would help you to get more into the subject, I always go to Bare Foot Horse, the "founder" section. It's easy reading and explained very well.


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## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr (Oct 29, 2011)

Hayir Okan. Biraz bekle. Altindan bir sey kesmek yok, sadece okceler. Biraz bekle....


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## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr (Oct 29, 2011)

deserthorsewoman said:


> I'll let loosie and/or Trinity do the explicit explaining, all I'll throw in from experience, is that the heels are important. How much can be taken down at one time, again, I leave to the pro's.as for the toe, there should be no blood, as long as he rasps from above, vertically down. It will look horrible, and it takes guts, but it will help. No touching the front half of the sole, not even as much as just accidently sliding the rasp over. Hence the rasping from above.
> If it would help you to get more into the subject, I always go to Bare Foot Horse, the "founder" section. It's easy reading and explained very well.


Hi desert. Thanks. Yeah I need to explain it better to him. I'm obviously not (going by his last picture because he's not sure where to rasp). 

He is ok to rasp the heels down and I will try and explain that better to him. But I just need info for that toe wall to rasp from above.. hang on


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## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr (Oct 29, 2011)

OK I can try and translate everything else better in a moment.


Please someone tell me that it is definitely ok for him to rasp through that pink toe and that I should tell him to do so even if it looks like it will bleed? It is just bruising right?


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## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr (Oct 29, 2011)

Okan, Kibris da sana gelemem. Memkum degil. Uzgunum. Benim hayat cok zor simdi burada..


Ama simdi... *Altindan* SADECE okceler turpul. Boyle resimler gibi.


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## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr (Oct 29, 2011)

*Bu resim yalnis.* This is wrong. Too much weight at front.


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## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr (Oct 29, 2011)

Bu video izle. 1:22 dan izle ve gor. Adam nasil takiliyor. Senin kopuk boyle yap. Gunde bir, iki, uc saat icin. Tam gun boyle birakma. Takmadin zaman, at saman ustunde koy. Yumsak yer birak.

Laminitis First Aid Treatment - Styrofoam - YouTube


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

That's what I meant by vertical cut. As long as he doesn't cut the tip of the sole off, I doubt there will be any blood. It will look very weird, you can see the laminae and a lot of gaps between them. It will dry up very quickly.
The coffin bone is currently pointing down, instead of forward. To get it to point forward the heel needs to be lowered. Logical, isn't it? And because of the coffin bone pointing down she needs all the sole there is.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I wonder if she should still be on anti inflammatory meds - oral not shots if she was getting anxious about them and something like acepromazine to reduce blood pressure. She must be in a lot of pain and thats going to also raise her BP which will have a knock on effect on her feet


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## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr (Oct 29, 2011)

Simdi mavi yer turpul yap. Korma. Kan cikmas diyorlar. Kotu gozukcak ama yap. Pembe gosteriyor ama sadece pembe. Bu yapmasi gerekiyor. Ama USTUNDAN! Altindan degil!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

The barefoot philosophy is that only in the acute stage any drugs should be given, and as little as possible. Overloading her already more than compromised system could lead to another attack. In fact, some drugs are thought to cause laminitis. 
If Okan can make her a sand box, that would make her more comfy, slowly walking her with the slippers on is needed. Ideal would be a paddock with one part soft, one part hard ground. 

Giving her some bute before doing her feet might be a possibility. And my tried and true carrot treatment.


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## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr (Oct 29, 2011)

1-For start we agreed all not touch sole.
2-We rasp heel but no bruise there. Bruise in front oh hoof. Look pic In send 5 th one. Yu will see it is white and good. We will rasp more this week end. But the angle I no know how. %20 % 30?? How we will decide it?
3-I understand the bone is in wrong position and I should not cut sole so when pony walk and sole touch ground more this will help bone to get in place?
4- If I cut blue area that you draw I am sure I will bleed the hoof that I really no want. If I cut that much I probably see the bone.
If you look 14 th picture I send from bottom back hoof to meet is just 7 cm something.
5- I can not trim the sides of the hoof can I ?

1. Evet. Taban dokunma. Sadece okceler turpul.
2. Evet, Okce turpul. Biraz yap. Once resim kadar.
3. Guzel aci dan sonra, kemik degisecek.
4. Evet, cesur ol. Pembe yer ustundan turpul yap. Kemik kesinikle orda degil. Korma. Turpul yap. Kan cikmaz diyorlar.
5. Hayir. Sadece soyledikler yer turpul yapin.


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## Trinity3205 (Dec 21, 2010)

The front toe isnt going to bleed if you rasp the flare away. It is lamellar wedge now that the foot is almost half grown down. Im not sure how to translate lamellar wedge but its basicallt widened stretched while line...like a scar to help heal where the inflammation was. It needs to be taken back so it isnt pulling away when the pony walks like a hangnail.


The heel angle should be exactly what I drew on the picture I posted. If he rasps the flare away first into a stright line with the new healthy growth, he should be better able to tell how the foot SHOULD look. The fetlock bone angle needs to be even with the new growth at the front of the foot. Like this...trim the heel till it is straight down the front of the fetlock bone and down the front wall after the flare is taken back.











This is what is going on now but with taller heels. Taking the toe back and heels down will realign the bones. 












The new wall growing down will suck the bone back up into the foot or grow down around the bones new position. Im not sure how is easiest to understand. Same concept tho.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Hmm, just come in from a 'please help - my pony won't get up!' ski-foot founder job to find you've all been very busy since I left this thread at 1am this morning! Thank you all! Okan, to see her standing up with the pads on her feet is a good change, yes? 

More pix & diagrams to come soon!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Looks like we're doing shifts now;-)


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Just have to say I love your Ray Hunt quote Confucius!

OK, hopefully these pics will explain clearly... or Confucius can come to the rescue adequately!


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## Trinity3205 (Dec 21, 2010)

I went searching for real pictures for you and found two I think may help give you confidence. 

This is showing something else, but note that the toe is not bleeding and is beveled back to where it should be even into what looks like sole. It isnt living sole anymore. 










This example is just like your horse. You can take the heel away. This horse was trimmed in a 3 month period from the first picture to the last.


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## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr (Oct 29, 2011)

Just have to say I love your Ray Hunt quote!

Thanks Loosie  I've encountered many who will disagree with that, and I'm sure there will be plenty more who always will disagree with it. :wink: But hey, the horse knows ...

As for hoof info - thank you to everyone who added info. Thanks trinity too for that extra info. So the pink area is like a false toe that the hoof creates to try to 'protect' the inside structure? Most people think it's live sole but it's actually not? I think that's right? I watch thehappyhoof channel on youtube (I think she's great) and she talks about stuff like this. The Happy Hoof's Channel - YouTube

Anyway, ok it's almost midday here and I can try and draw more diagrams later and say some things again with the help of my eldest when she gets back from school (she's the better translator!!) If some of the things that have already been said are translated differently again, sometimes that helps the info to get better understood.

Okan, bugun sonra biraz daha seyler anlatabilirim. Sabir ol.


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## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr (Oct 29, 2011)

Merhaba Okan. Bugun at nasildi? Biraz daha iyi mi? 

Lutfen resimleri oku ve uygula.


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## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr (Oct 29, 2011)

Simdi ne yapacagini anladin mi? Senden cevap bekliyorum.


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

New pics


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

rest. I will be here in 30 mintue to write how I done


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Looking GOOD!!!
You and your nailman are doing a really good job, Okan 
How is she now, a little better?
Just need to say that you have a nailman who is willing to forget what he would normally do, and go with what we here suggest. That kind of nailman is VERY hard to find. Compliments to him!


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## Annanoel (Mar 29, 2011)

Okan! Her feet look amazing, getting so much better! You're getting there and she is lucky to have you and nailman to take care of her. Is she able to stand for longer now?


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

I use this with sandpaper on it.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Wow! And she is standing for that?
Good pony!!!


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

Ok here I am back. I needed shower. I use this tool to cut nail with sandpaper on it. rasp did not work Her nails so hard. And her nails hot too 
And I do all these with a friend holding horse. You guys make me nail man now. As a horse lover and horse scarer I kneel in front of horse to do these and on my hand this noisy tool. 
Thanks for all compliments. Lucky I am not get kicked or bite. I do not knwo the angles right or wrong. But you told me cut front I did and cut back I did. I dit not touch sole at all. No blood come out. I think from front I cut around 1 cm and from back to give angle around 2 mm. But I have no knife that nail mans have that cut middle back. And to be honnest even if I have this knife I do not think I can use it.ing her 
I can say she stay good when I use this tool. when nail man cut he jump up at least 10 times. here he stand still and let me do what I needed. But I am amatour. This is best I can. 
I will wait yours answers if I did ok.

As I said before 1 cm from front and 2 mm from back. Aproximately.

I no know if I can go more futher. Maybe we should not?


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Wow! And she is standing for that?
> Good pony!!!


I use special sandpaper for it. Lucky she did not scare from noise. If she scared I would not rasp it


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I will let loosie or Trinity decide on that. They are the professionals
Soooo, you did that? You did an outstanding job, Okan!!!!!!


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> I will let loosie or Trinity decide on that. They are the professionals
> Soooo, you did that? You did an outstanding job, Okan!!!!!!


If still doing wrong some one from you going to fly over here. I no accept answer as a NO.

Let me go check her if any blood.


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

Ok . Just checked. No blood. But she lie on hay.


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## Annanoel (Mar 29, 2011)

I agree! She looks like she is standing a lot more even on her feet. Great job slowly getting better. AWESOME okan!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

That's okay. She had to stand for doing the nails and now needs rest. It takes time. For the new healthy nail to grow.


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

when she lie a lot no good. you know the gas colic. what do you think i let her free out? no lock her. the groupnd on my life is like beach. weather night cold but she can stay out or get in barn. sand is more soft than hay. the problem is she will break trees by brush. ans she will eat grass and leafs?


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

okan said:


> when she lie a lot no good. you know the gas colic. what do you think i let her free out? no lock her. the ground on my farm is like beach. weather night cold but she can stay out or get in barn up to her. sand is more soft than hay. the problem is she will break trees by brush. ans she will eat grass and leafs?


re write


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## Annanoel (Mar 29, 2011)

Is she fenced in Okan? If she can get in and out of the barn and is fenced in, I would let her be free in her pen so she can get some air and excercise. She'll choose where to stand that's most comfortable for her. She will eat grass, I doubt she will eat leaves. Otherwise, you could always spend time with her outside on a lead rope to give her some air.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Going out would be good, grass and leaves AT THE MOMENT not. Can you make a little pen/paddock in front of her stall with sand? Cold is no problem, rain yes, but if it rains too much you can get her inside.


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## Hunterjumper7654 (May 28, 2010)

You are all truely amazing people trying to help someone on the other side of the world! 

Okan you are an amazing person to seek out this much help for your pony! Bless you and that pony! I hope all turns out well!


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## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

Walking and being on her feet will be good for her. It will promote blood supply to the hooves. Sand would be really good for her. Can you put her outside in the sand and not let her eat grass? Maybe fence off a small section for her? Your doing awesome!! Keep up the good work


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Okan, very, very good!!! I'm hopeful you will see some good changes in her very soon now. Haven't time to write details now, but yes, if she can come in & out & choose when she needs soft bed & lie down or not would be good.

My Dad's just back from a trip to Turkey - should have hidden in his suitcase!


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## Trinity3205 (Dec 21, 2010)

Good job! Looking better! She could still have more heel lowered but the toes im happy with what you have done so far. Trim her heels at this angle with the tool next time you go out. Print the picture if you can and take it with you to look at. 


Now, next thing is to get her feet cold. When her feet are hot, make Ice Water in a bucket and make her stand in the bucket for 20 minutes in and then take her out for 20 minutes. You can keep alternating 20 in and 20 out when her feet are hot to help cool the fever. Hot feet need to be iced or at least hose with cold water.


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

Hi Okan, I have been following this thread with interest. You are doing a great job with Apache. He is lucky to have an owner like you who cares so much about his health. Hopefully he gets better soon and then you both can get some much deserved rest!


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

Wow, you are all amazing!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Okan, you are not only very caring, but obviously brave and intelligent:wink:! Yes, by the end of this, if you learn the anatomy & reasons for why to do certain things like this, you could end up being the most wanted 'nailman' in Turkey!! 

As for the job you've done, I wouldn't have done it much differently at all. Trinity beat me to it - thanks Trinity! But I'll give my explanation as well...

It doesn't look like you can afford to take much height off the heels at present, but if you cut them on the angle they *should* be - as Trinity indicated - this will really help, and you will be able to cut them shorter over time, without getting near blood, as the insides of the foot will change back to where they should be.

On the toe, that is really good! You could perhaps afford to go a bit further, but I believe what you have done is quite enough to allow good changes & stay 'safe'. I would just do as you have done around the sides a little, so the toe is rounded, not squared.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

...& on the rasp not cutting, sounds like a new, good quality one would be helpful. I don't know what the situation is like for importing things over there, but if you could get a Bassoli(Italian) brand rasp, these are very good.


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## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr (Oct 29, 2011)

Happy to see this going good  OK... more translations from my clever girl. <3

Merhaba Okan

Atin olaylarinin iyi gitmesine cok mutlu oldum. Iyi bir is cikariyorsun. Bunu yapabilirsin.

En arkaya dogru okceleri birazcik daha torpuleyebilirsin , sadece arka kenarinda. Atin yurumesini sagla ve onu disarida serbest birak. Ahiri acik birakabilirmisin boylece at iceri girmek isterse girebilir.

Evet, onun ayaklarini soguk buzlu suya koyabilirsin. Bunu atin ayaklari sicak oldugunda yapabilrsin. Bu atin cok daha iyi hissetmesini saglar. Disariya bir golet (su birinkitisi) hazirlamak iyi bir fikir olabilir. Ayrica at istedigi zaman icinde yuruyebilir.

At usutmez. Cunku Tabiat Ana bu hayvanlari disarida yasamak icin yaratmistir, ahirlarda degil. Bizim Akdeniz havamiz cok iyi. Bizim burada atlar icin harika sicakliklar var. Atin soguk olup olmadigini gogusunden ve gobeginin altindan elleyerek kontrol edebilirsin. Onun gogsu ve gobegi ilik-sicak olacaktir. Onun saman yemesi ona yardimci olur hem de onu yeteri sicaklikta tutar. 

O makineyi kullanman torpuyu kullanmana gore hem daha kolay hem daha hizlidir. Aferin sana. Iyi bir is cikariyorsun. Iyi sanslar.


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

loosie said:


> okan, you are not only very caring, but obviously brave and intelligent:wink:! Yes, by the end of this, if you learn the anatomy & reasons for why to do certain things like this, you could end up being the most wanted 'nailman' in turkey!!
> 
> As for the job you've done, i wouldn't have done it much differently at all. Trinity beat me to it - thanks trinity! But i'll give my explanation as well...
> 
> ...


thank you,
ok from pic i understand need more cut. To be honnest i have done all by scared but at the end of cut i tought i should go more futher.anyway done is done. When is next i cut her nails? Few days later? And in this time anything else needed to be done?


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

confusciuswasagreatteachr said:


> happy to see this going good  ok... More translations from my clever girl. <3
> 
> merhaba okan
> 
> ...


merhaba,
evet ileriki gunlerde ayni sekilde kesecem. At icin yer yapiyorum ki orada disarida kalsin. Hersey icin tesekkurler 

okan


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

glynnis said:


> hi okan, i have been following this thread with interest. You are doing a great job with apache. He is lucky to have an owner like you who cares so much about his health. Hopefully he gets better soon and then you both can get some much deserved rest!


thank you


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

loosie said:


> ...& on the rasp not cutting, sounds like a new, good quality one would be helpful. I don't know what the situation is like for importing things over there, but if you could get a bassoli(italian) brand rasp, these are very good.


hehe i am not trying to be nail man  rasping is their job . Between my nail man broke her leg so can not vİsİt me next week.


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

trinity3205 said:


> good job! Looking better! She could still have more heel lowered but the toes im happy with what you have done so far. Trim her heels at this angle with the tool next time you go out. Print the picture if you can and take it with you to look at.
> 
> 
> Now, next thing is to get her feet cold. When her feet are hot, make ice water in a bucket and make her stand in the bucket for 20 minutes in and then take her out for 20 minutes. You can keep alternating 20 in and 20 out when her feet are hot to help cool the fever. Hot feet need to be iced or at least hose with cold water.


 hi,
ok next cuting next week ok? I have done cold water before i can do that again no problem at all


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Yes, next week is fine for next trim - little and often is better than taking too much at once & leaving it. You shouldn't have to take much from heels, but try to change that angle.


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

Hi my friends,
I hope you are all fine. We had our new cuting last sunday. I was bussy I did not have time to write and give you information. This cutting made by nailman. He said we cut to much last time. But we still cut it this time. We rasp front and we cut back. If I have time I will make new pics and send. We let horse free almost everyday. I made new paddock. Still need to work on it. But horse is walking bettter. Sometime running. But you can still see pain on her. She will be fine I hope and better everyday. this is all I can say for now. Maybe I make small movie that you guys can see.


thank you


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi Okan,

Haven't heard from you for a couple of weeks, hoping everything is going alright? Your pony still improving?


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## imhispunkin (Nov 13, 2012)

I am so happy and proud to have joined this forum and to see such caring horse lovers helping others like this...Wow is all I can say.....You are all awesome!!!!!!! Hope this pony is doing much better


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

Hi All,
Hi Loosie, I hope you are fine. we are all fine. Pony is better. she is moving around with no problem but STILL there are some paing and still she lie down to rest. Nail man comign this weekend. We need to know now how should we continue cuting. 

Tell us next step please.

Thank you


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## Trinity3205 (Dec 21, 2010)

Hey there Okan! Do you have any new pictures for us to look at? The feet will look different now since the nail man cut them again.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Good news Okan! Yes, more pictures that we can draw on  will help us help you further. How's management and padding feet going for you? Are you still padding?

Magnesium Chloride is worth looking into, as something to add to her feed. Have no idea whether you could get it there though.


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

Okan i hope your pony keeps getting better iv been following this post from day one. All i can say is the people on here are AMAZING. Its really cool to see how everyone has pulled together to help your pony and you.


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

new pics


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Hi Okan
Looking so much better. Now you need to work on bringing the heels down more. Loosie will guide you,I'm sure. And Trinity. 
Good job!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Good Okan! You have done well but you now have to focus more on her heels. DO NOT cut them at the same angle they are now, but bevel them, so they become closer to where they 'should' be. Follow the green line, not the red when trimming bottom of feet.


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## Gremmy (Feb 17, 2009)

Wow, that's quite an improvement!


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

after trim


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## Gremmy (Feb 17, 2009)

I believe your nail man deserves a lot of these! ->:clap:

What's really great about this is now that this nail man/farrier is following modern methods and seeing the result, who knows how many other horses he'll be able to help  Teach a man to fish eh?

Good luck Okan, I hope your pony keeps improving. She might always lie down to rest and it won't always mean pain - many horses sleep standing up but many prefer to lie down.


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## hberrie (Apr 28, 2012)

This was an absolutely amazing story!! If only some of could be so humble as to follow the advice of strangers in order to create a miracle!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi Okan,

Just wondering how you & your pony are doing?? Pardon forgetting to comment on the last set of pictures, which look good!


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## okan (Oct 9, 2012)

Hi All,
We are all doing good. Pony lose weigh. She is more light now. She is walking and running. She still have just little problem. But she does not have pain as much as before. We are doing regulary nail cutting. ever 10 days. No bruýses down on the hoof. Every time time we cut the nail new one coming out and its is clean not have any red. I will make sure I send you new pictures for next trims.

Thank you very much.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

I'm so happy to hear this! You are such a caring owner, she is so lucky to have you, willing to put in all that effort.:hug: Yes please, I'm sure I'm not the only one interested in seeing updates!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Wonderful news Okan!!!!!
We definitely need pictures


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## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

yaay!!! I'm so excited for you and your pony!! Can't wait to see pictures!!


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## Annanoel (Mar 29, 2011)

Okan! How is everything with your pony? Any new pictures? Her feet have been looking great the last few sets you have posted.


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