# Sold without papers



## RebeccaA13

A friend of mine bought a AQHA registered mare and the lady would not sell the papers with her. She has the bill of sale to prove she is the owner. The lady still has the papers, which is against AQHA rules, she has tried to sell her the papers. Where she has already bought the horse is there anything she can do through the AQHA so she doesn't have to pay for the horse twice?


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## iridehorses

Things like that need to have been brought up before money changed hands. I've seen horses sell for a real cheap price with no papers but a higher price if papers were included. Seems ridiculous to me but apparently not to the seller for whatever reason.

If the seller's name was not on the papers, she can contact AQHA and contact the last owner listed to request a set of duplicates. As long as she knows the registered name of the horse, AQHA will give her the most recent person who registered the horse and she can start from there. Of course, if the seller was the last person to register the horse, that won't work.


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## RebeccaA13

The lady who sold her is also the breeder. So she is the only one with the papers.


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## iridehorses

Why did you agree to buy her without papers?


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## RebeccaA13

Im not really sure why she bought her without papers.


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## iridehorses

That being the case, there isn't anything she can do about it that I'm aware of.


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## farmpony84

What is the horses registered name? My geuss is, either the horse was not registered, she doesn't actually own the horse, she lost the papers, OR, the horse has HYPP or HERDA, or even a parrot mouth and it is documented on the papers......


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## RebeccaA13

Her name is Shastas Poco Star. I found her pedigree on allbreedpedigree.com.


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## farmpony84

This one?

SHASTAS POCO STARQH BLACK MARE 05/17/2001


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## RebeccaA13

yup thats her.


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## farmpony84

If that is her then I don't see any Impressive in her bloodlines which means she isn't hiding HYPP. I wonder if she actually owns the horse? What you can do is have your friend contact AQHA and they will work with you to get the papers, if it's possible.


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## JustDressageIt

iridehorses said:


> Things like that need to have been brought up before money changed hands. I've seen horses sell for a real cheap price with no papers but a higher price if papers were included. Seems ridiculous to me but apparently not to the seller for whatever reason.


Just as an FYI for my Canadian neighbors: 
This is actually illegal in Canada - Alberta at least. If an animal is advertised as registered, the papers must go with, and there cannot be a price differential with or without papers. Just in case anyone is ever in this position..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farmpony84

Here is a link that might be helpful to you.

Transfer Video Tutorial


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## Saddlebag

Report her to AQHA.


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## WickedNag

Have any of you contacted the AQHA on this subject? I have as a matter of interest as I wondered why the papers would not always go with the horse. NO I have never bought a horse and had someone hold the papers. BUT the AQHA official I spoke to said that the owner of the papers can do what they want with them. They do not have to go with the horse. Not something I agree with but it is what it is. 

That being said if I advertise a registered horse for sale and I own the horse and the papers, I would think I could advertise it as registered. Now when you come out to look at it I could say to you ... yes the horse is registered but you will be getting it grade as the papers will not follow the horse. 

It could be a mare they don't want bred for some reason, who knows? But I don't exchange money without the proper paperwork in hand after learning the hard way


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## MHFoundation Quarters

I've seen that quite a bit over the years for a couple of reasons. They aren't breeding quality and the seller wants to prevent breeding of that animal (less likely someone will breed a grade mare) or the horse is a cull and the seller doesn't want that horse attached to their breeding program. 

I do find it a bit strange that the horse would be advertised as registered and papers not come with. Those with reasons I have seen either get ran thru a sale barn or sold as grade and one would never know papers existed. I think it's pretty shady to advertise one as registered and try to sell the papers separately for more money. 

Though it probably isn't likely, if you can get the seller to sign a transfer the physical papers don't matter the AQHA will issue a duplicate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WickedNag

Called the AQHA again today to verify and yes the certificate doesn't need to follow the horse but they are suppose to be turned in the the AQHA and a note send along saying the horse was sold as grade. The AQHA will never send a certificate on the horse again... the horse from that point on will be grade.


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## WickedNag

The horse is still in the breeders name so you could always go that route. Her is the info on the certificate 

*MODERATOR'S NOTE:

*I removed the personal information concerning the breeder. If the OP wants the information, please contact WickedNag by PM.


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## WickedNag

RebeccaA13 did you see my post? I thought your response was yes that was her. If that is the case there in not much your friend can do. She bought a grade horse


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## RebeccaA13

yea that is her. She's going to try and talk to her to get the papers. If not she said she's going to report her to the AQHA. Thank you.


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## Speed Racer

If the breeder doesn't want to give your friend the papers, reporting her to the AQHA will only result in the horse's papers being pulled and she'll be considered a grade. Your friend won't be getting her papers either way.

I don't think it's right to try and SELL your friend the papers, but if she wanted a registered horse she never should have bought the mare without her papers.


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## WickedNag

Agreed SR. She can call the AQHA and the papers will be marked and pulled from the AQHA and the horse will be grade. All verified this morning (had to call them anyway to finalize the color change on my own registration papers)


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