# Trying to figure out what he is?



## truckergirl (Sep 27, 2011)

I bought this horse on a sale on Sat. He doesn't have any paperwork, we also don't know if the Coggins that came with him are even his. The Coggins had no age, name or any distinguishing info. One lady we spoke to said she had him for 5 years (we never even got a name from her) but that didn't match up w/ Coggins either! He is very calm and broke to ride and I love him already I'm just curious. He (Camo) is 16'1-16'2 about 1350lbs and so many different colors! I'm sure he a combo of 2 horses so we may never know what he is. Also we haven't ridden him yet but he seems to be gaited. Any help or opinions would be greatly appreciated.


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

Oh gosh, that's...interesting ! Lol  He looks like a palomino appaloosa... but those are some unusual markings. His skin is most likely mottled, which is not uncommon in some palominos, I think. Is he losing hair anywhere? Does he have some sort of fungus? Maybe he is inbetween coats and will shed (or grow) that palomino color out... I honestly am stumped by this feller.


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

What an interesting horse!

Interested in other answers!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## truckergirl (Sep 27, 2011)

Equilove said:


> Oh gosh, that's...interesting ! Lol  He looks like a palomino appaloosa... but those are some unusual markings. His skin is most likely mottled, which is not uncommon in some palominos, I think. Is he losing hair anywhere? Does he have some sort of fungus? Maybe he is inbetween coats and will shed (or grow) that palomino color out... I honestly am stumped by this feller.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## truckergirl (Sep 27, 2011)

No he is not shedding (or growing) he has an ear fungus that prevents us from putting a headstall on. Those are his colors! We have no clue, and appaloosas aren't gaited, he moves out like my spotted saddle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

truckergirl said:


> No he is not shedding (or growing) he has an ear fungus that prevents us from putting a headstall on. Those are his colors! We have no clue, and appaloosas aren't gaited, he moves out like my spotted saddle.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes... I know appys aren't gaited. We are taking stabs at what he may be crossed between, right? Have you ever heard of a Walkaloosa?


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## truckergirl (Sep 27, 2011)

Yes I have but I have never seen either breed built like he is. But it is a possibility thank u.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

There are a lot of possibilities. I think one thing can be for certain - he has appaloosa in there somewhere. Or there's a grey gene in there....honestly a first for me


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## dee (Jul 30, 2009)

Equilove said:


> Yes... I know appys aren't gaited. We are taking stabs at what he may be crossed between, right? Have you ever heard of a Walkaloosa?


I thought the original appys, as in Chief Joseph's were gaited to a certain extent.


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

dee said:


> I thought the original appys, as in Chief Joseph's were gaited to a certain extent.


On extremely rare occasions, I think some have a "shuffle". I've seen it in a foundation quarter horse. He was gaited, but pure QH. Very strange.


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## dee (Jul 30, 2009)

It's called an "Indian Shuffle" or single footing. My Dancer does it...I think. It's hard to tell. Everyone who sees her move says she's gaited, but she doesn't get ridden enough to sharpen up that gait...whatever it is.


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

Oh wow... I was thinking Blood Marks... Flea Bitten Gray? But he could possible be Chimeric??? Like a brindle? He's so interesting. Do you have more pics? It may also be an old fungus that changed his coloring and he's a chestnut... but I don't know.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

I am NOT a color expert, by any means. But, what what an interesting horse. Golden, go get Bubba13. She may have a clue on this one.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

I wouldn't hazard to guess from that picture. My gut feeling though is that he had some sort of skin problem at some point in time.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

I am guessing his base color is chestnut, but that looks like scarring more than an actual pattern. I agree with the past skin issue.


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## truckergirl (Sep 27, 2011)

This is the only other pic I have right now. It has been raining for 2 days so I haven't taken anymore but will soon!


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## truckergirl (Sep 27, 2011)

My husband says that it is not a skin irritation that is his coloring. I am still open to all options. My vet is even doing some research into a byelorussian harness horse. There doesn't seem to be any info on them but in any photo we see there is a gray and white spotted one that looks remarkably alot like him without of course the 3rd/4th color lol


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## alforddm (Oct 1, 2010)

Is it ok if I cross post this?


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

If he had a skin problem in the past that has been healed, his coat could very well grow back in all sorts of funny colors. However, I don't think there is any way you could tell if this horse was born this way unless you had a foal picture of him.


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

Well it could be a PAST skin infection that he got over and the fur discolored that way when it grew back out. I know there is a few pictures of a stallion that this happened to but I can't for the life of me recall his name. I honestly think it is either that or he is chimeric..... The only way you'd know if it is chimerism is if you get him tested. 

But he looks like this mare









Still trying to find a pic of the stallion.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Thanks SUJ. I was searching and searching for that mare's pic.


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## truckergirl (Sep 27, 2011)

yes you can cross post this


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Very, very interesting. I would love to see the results of color testing.


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

I forgot to put in what my breed guess is. I'm guessing he is an Appaloosa. Because of the eye shape and the way he is built.


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## Tayz (Jan 24, 2009)

Wow he'd be a sight to see. Very strange colouring..My guess Apaloosa cross with something.
Such a colourful horse!


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## truckergirl (Sep 27, 2011)

could be an appy breed w/ a draft horse. my uncle owns 3 appy's and I have never seen one as big as him. He is 16'2 and at least 1350lbs and very stout. I will get more pics on here tomorrow


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

More pics would be awesome. If you could lift his tail to the side and take a pic and one of his chest. A clear one up close at his skin and around his eye. Both sides... lol I'm being demanding. It'll probably help with more pics. And get a few showing his hooves. Are they striped? Appys can come that big, btw. : D


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I guess I am the only one that doesn't see Appaloosa in him. Yeah, he's funky, but I don't know if he's funky in an Appaloosa way. I think he's way more unique than that!

First glance he looks like a brindle. But then he reminds me of the strange pinto on this page too, because he almost looks like he has tobiano type markings. 

Brindle Icelandic Horses

Chimeric perhaps? He's really beautiful and unique! I can't believe he slipped by in an auction. I would have brought him home for sure, especially since he's saddle broke. And gaited too, what a cool horse! 

PS. My guess on breed is Tennessee Walker or Missouri Fox Trotter.


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## amp23 (Jan 6, 2011)

I think his coloring is very interesting. Probably part appy if his coloring is not from something else such as chimeric. But I do know an appy at the barn I work at that kind of gaits sometimes, so it's interesting to hear that at one point some were almost gaited.. Interesting to see what the vet says about him and his crazy coloring! Either way he is a beautiful horse


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## Day Mares (Jul 16, 2011)

Aw what a cool and colourful horse you have! From the two pics I've seen I guess that he is TWH X Spotted Saddle Horse. He seems large - is he physically big in person?


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## truckergirl (Sep 27, 2011)

trailhorserider said:


> I guess I am the only one that doesn't see Appaloosa in him. Yeah, he's funky, but I don't know if he's funky in an Appaloosa way. I think he's way more unique than that!
> 
> First glance he looks like a brindle. But then he reminds me of the strange pinto on this page too, because he almost looks like he has tobiano type markings.
> 
> ...


We don't see any appy in him either! most people automatically think that when the see spots. and thank you yes he is beautiful, I fell in love at first sight even in the dark barn, lost my breath when they walked him into the barn! What is really funny is all my my husband could say is that he was huge and ugly! even after we got him home then when we turned him loose and he got all comfy and stretched out my husband just went WOW! now he is love almost as much as me! :wink:
He looks to be part walker and then we found this pic and they look remarkably alike 
Breeds of Livestock - Byelorussian Harness Horse

we are going to have him tested, which is something I never thought I would do! Our horses are part of our family and I don't care about breeding, bloodlines, etc. they just have to have a big heart (which he does)


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## truckergirl (Sep 27, 2011)

Day Mares said:


> Aw what a cool and colourful horse you have! From the two pics I've seen I guess that he is TWH X Spotted Saddle Horse. He seems large - is he physically big in person?


thank you and yes he is very big in person he completely shades my SSH (& of course my TWH mare) and towers over my husbands 16h 1200lb QH


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

I wonder.....

There was a time when people, who stole horses, would alter appearances by freeze branding facial markings etc. This was detectable when it was discovered (according to an article I read many years ago) that the white hair produced by this had a different color when put under flourescent light.

This altered hair is, for all intents and purposes "scar tissue" hair. If the white mottling is from disease "scarring", might it not show that same characteristic? Could it be tested?

As I said, the article I read about the freeze brand hair was a LONG time ago. I don't know if it is still considered accurate. I will try to find out.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Allison - that is why we are bringing up a skin issue. The mare previously posted is very similar to this gelding in that way and her markings, if I am remembering correctly, were caused by scaring from a skin issue. I believe it was a fungal issues that caused her to scar, but I could be wrong.


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## alforddm (Oct 1, 2010)

Is the skin under his tail and in his nether regions solid or speckled in anyway?


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## Annnie31 (May 26, 2011)

Does look like a Byelorussian horse but also a bit like a Pintoloosa as he appears to have mottled skin on eyes but can say for sure. Is there mottled skin on eyes, nose, and nether regions as alforddm put it?


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

Please let us know what the results are, OP! I've seen some very interesting colors, but never anything like this. Like everyone else, I'm also curiouse to know the color of his skin around his man-parts, lips, and eyes- as well as the color of his hooves? Those things could be very helpful in determining his breed. 

If he really is only five, his color could still be changing.

As for being an appy- he doesn't look very appy-ish to me, but I'm seeing low-quality pictures. Perhaps when it stops raining you could some conformation shots of him, as well as those closeups! He's stumping me, but appies are known to be as big as 17 hands at times...


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Subbing. Read the thread, so now I'm interested.


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## truckergirl (Sep 27, 2011)

I am amazed at some of the comments on here I didn't realize there were so many options to what caused his coloring! I knew he was different when I saw him just didn't know HOW different! I'm really excited to find out about him. And yes I will get some more pics on here as soon as I can


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

The Byelorussian horse is just a plain ol' dapple gray--common and boring, and not at all what is going on with your horse.


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

I would also wonder about a skin issue. 

Not that this is the case but I did read an article awhile back (can't for the life of me find it now of course) about a gelding that had been treated with a mixture of diesel fuel & kerosene for rain rot. He was scalded badly from it and his after photos looked similar. I'd hope that wouldn't be the case here, I'd hate to think of someone applying something like that to one's head.


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

wow...what a different color! If it isn't a skin problem then I am guessing Chimeric. I can't wait to hear the test results! Oh...congrats on getting him too!


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

ShutUpJoe said:


> Well it could be a PAST skin infection that he got over and the fur discolored that way when it grew back out. I know there is a few pictures of a stallion that this happened to but I can't for the life of me recall his name. I honestly think it is either that or he is chimeric..... The only way you'd know if it is chimerism is if you get him tested.
> 
> But he looks like this mare
> 
> ...


 
off topic but is the poop and mud caked on to this horses tail?


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Gidget - Cockleburrs. you don't have to have a horse around them for very long for that to happen. :? I hate, _hate, *hate*_ cockleburrs.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

Oh wait! are those things kinda round with tons of thorns on them? If so I have seen a mini with them all over it's forlock and then some. I tried brushing them out but couldn't


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Yep that sounds like them! Nasty little suckers.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

ugh,yes they are! and they hurt when they poke you


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## haleylvsshammy (Jun 29, 2010)

Sorry, I have nothing useful to contribute, but I just had to say that your guy is a beauty and I'm very interested to find out what he is! It seems like you really got a good guy, too, and it's always a plus when the coloring is so fascinating!


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## sommsama09 (Oct 28, 2010)

Gidget said:


> off topic but is the poop and mud caked on to this horses tail?


 I believe so >.<


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## truckergirl (Sep 27, 2011)

ShutUpJoe said:


> More pics would be awesome. If you could lift his tail to the side and take a pic and one of his chest. A clear one up close at his skin and around his eye. Both sides... lol I'm being demanding. It'll probably help with more pics. And get a few showing his hooves. Are they striped? Appys can come that big, btw. : D


OK here are some different pix hope they help! (and no his hooves are not striped)


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

Seeing that I'm no longer thinking skin issue. I'm honestly thinking he is chimeric. Anyone else see the striping along his side? Very interesting horse! I wouldn't mind having him in my pasture. I still see Appy in the eye shape...


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## truckergirl (Sep 27, 2011)

After all the comments about it I'm leaning that way too, when I was brushing him u can really see the striping.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

I crossposted this for you just now. I can message you the link to that thread if you like so you can see the comments from them as well. How are you guys getting along? Does your husband like him now? lol


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## Flmountainhorse (Sep 29, 2011)

you have a beautiful example of a Pintaloosa.... check out these two Registries:

PINTALOOSA of ISHR

Pintaloosa Registration


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Erm. He isn't a pintaloosa. Not IMO. 

I scratch my opinion that it is a skin issue. He is definitely cool looking that is for sure.


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

He looks like a calico! I sent my brindles samles into Horse Genetics Inc. And uc Davis too if I remember right. They don't have an actual test for chimeric sadly  My only other thought is a rose grey and he is just greying in a wild pattern? They could rule out grey....


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Well huh. What an interesting looking guy. I don't think skin issue anymore either.. The only thing I can think of genetic testing to be sure, but there are only so many tests available.


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## tempest (Jan 26, 2009)

I'm subscribing. I don't have much to say other than he is a cool color.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Maybe he is an Appaloosa after all. But I'm still betting on some kind of bizarre environmental factors to cause the final patterning.


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## alforddm (Oct 1, 2010)

I cross posted this here What could cause this? | Equine Color Genetics

One of the members there is a member of the appaloosa project. She cross posted again and got a response from Sheila Archer! 

This was before the updated pictures so I'll be sure to pass them along.


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

I'm very interested in what you find out about it. It's really interesting, I'd love to see him in person.


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

Someone mentioned Vitiligo on the cross post... I thought it messed with the pigment of the skin. It doesn't look like the actual pigment is turning pink to me. It looks to be dark underneath the lighter colors on him. So IMO it's not vitiligo. 

Case of vitiligo.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Yeah--sure doesn't look like vitiligo as I understand it.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Neat. I didn't know horses could have vitiligo. I know two people with it.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Yep. It's especially common in grays.










It can cause patterns that resemble Appaloosa mottling.


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## amp23 (Jan 6, 2011)

Just thought I'd point out... There are 139 people viewing this thread right now! I think is coloring is really interesting and I wish we could know for sure what it was!


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

lol 132 guests... hmmm...


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## truckergirl (Sep 27, 2011)

Waiting on the vet but def having him tested
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Out of curiosity, what are you planning to test him for?


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## truckergirl (Sep 27, 2011)

We still have no idea what kind of horse he is and the colors are just adding to the suspense. As to what he gets tested for it is all up to the vet. I just do as I'm told (lol)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Testing this horse could be problematic. See, if he is chimeric, that means that he is essentially two horses that have 'merged' to create one. So in theory, some of his hair will contain one set of DNA, some will contain a different set. If you sent in a sample, they could potentially only be testing half of him lol.

There are tests that can be done for chimerism, but they aren't listed and I am not sure which facilities would do it. 

As far as any colour specific tests, there are currently no tests for LP, which seems to be the current fave for causing his colour. And while some vets are very knowledgeable, the vast majority generally don't know a huge amount about colour genetics.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

The Tiger Horse is a spotted, gaited breed. Very rare though. 

Tiger horse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

Chiilaa said:


> Testing this horse could be problematic. See, if he is chimeric, that means that he is essentially two horses that have 'merged' to create one. So in theory, some of his hair will contain one set of DNA, some will contain a different set. If you sent in a sample, they could potentially only be testing half of him lol.
> 
> There are tests that can be done for chimerism, but they aren't listed and I am not sure which facilities would do it.



That is exactly what the testing place told me. In the samples I sent they couldn't confirm chimeric,but they can't rule it out....unless they tested every hair on him...lol. 

You could email the lady that owns all these brindles 

HORSES FOR SALE « JUSTA SPLASH OF BRINDLE HORSE FARMS 

She is very helpful and know where/what tests to get


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Pity that most of the "bridles" at that farm, well, aren't.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

bubba13 said:


> Pity that most of the "bridles" at that farm, well, aren't.


Now now Bubba, bite that tongue  I agree with you though, most of them look like exaggerated dun markings to me, and to others who I have spoken to.


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

Regardless, she does know where to get chimeric testing and is very helpful.


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## caleybooth (Mar 11, 2011)

Cool horse! Parts of him look roan, parts look appaloosa, parts look brindle, and some parts look like he's going grey. Maybe he's a brindle leopard appy roan that is greying out. LOL, jk. (is that even possible?) To me, the black spots are wild looking!

As far as those burrs go, we have them terrible here at our farm. Our horses run loose on our 285 acres and I have to brush those burrs out of their hair on a daily basis. My mare gets them caught in her bangs so bad she looks like a unicorn sometimes! And they are a complete pain to get out! Usually I have to pick them out by hand and then use a curry comb. Then my mare's hair looks like she stuck her hoof in a light socket... ugh...


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Someone mentioned pintaloosa at first I thought no,but a more I thought about it well maybe.......a more expressed sabino markings with appaloosa??:think:
Whatever he is unusual for sure.


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## toosexy4myspotz (Oct 7, 2007)

Some Appaloosa crossed with painted will have this coloring because typically an appy has a lot thinner coat hens being able to see more coloration of the skin threw the coat and then you get your solid patches from the paint that because the skin is not mottled under the patch/ solid pigment which the hair tends to grow a little longer giving you a more of solid colored patch. Ally's are easier to see the different colored pigmentation on there skin because with the variation of pigment, also comes along with the rattail gene, their coat is not very dense, enabling you to see there beautiful pigmented skin. Did that make sense?


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

For all those thinking along the Pintaloosa lines. A pintaloosa does NOT have spots in their white pinto markings. The spots/appy roaning etc would ONLY be in the patches of colour.


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## truckergirl (Sep 27, 2011)

caleybooth said:


> Cool horse! Parts of him look roan, parts look appaloosa, parts look brindle, and some parts look like he's going grey. Maybe he's a brindle leopard appy roan that is greying out. LOL, jk. (is that even possible?) To me, the black spots are wild looking!
> 
> As far as those burrs go, we have them terrible here at our farm. Our horses run loose on our 285 acres and I have to brush those burrs out of their hair on a daily basis. My mare gets them caught in her bangs so bad she looks like a unicorn sometimes! And they are a complete pain to get out! Usually I have to pick them out by hand and then use a curry comb. Then my mare's hair looks like she stuck her hoof in a light socket... ugh...


If you put a little baby oil on it before you brush it out they come out much easier! and then comb a little through when you done they wont stick as bad and come out easier next time!


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## truckergirl (Sep 27, 2011)

if you look at the later pix the black is not spots they are lines and patches. I am loving more and more every day! He is so gentle and loving and I never seen an Appy as calm as he is. Camo truly is a gentle giant. We are gonna take him for his first ride (since we have had him) tomorrow! And I can't wait for all my friends to meet him they have all been invited out for a bonfire next weekend... I get laughed at cause it really is like we have a new (very large, lol) baby!


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## draftrider (Mar 31, 2010)

Check out Varnish Roan. It happens in Standardbreds. We had a varnish roan standardbred come through rescue and this fellow looks just like Stormy did.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Standardbreds don't come in varnish. That's an LP (Appaloosa) pattern.


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## truckergirl (Sep 27, 2011)

ShutUpJoe said:


> Well it could be a PAST skin infection that he got over and the fur discolored that way when it grew back out. I know there is a few pictures of a stallion that this happened to but I can't for the life of me recall his name. I honestly think it is either that or he is chimeric..... The only way you'd know if it is chimerism is if you get him tested.
> 
> But he looks like this mare
> 
> ...


I found this same pic on a site that says this mare was born this way and those are her colors: Breeds of Livestock - Byelorussian Harness Horse
not sure how accurate any of them are.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

I wouldn't believe that based on that website alone. It's not exactly the most accurate or unbiased there is.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Here's another pic of "Lucy," the mare with the cockleburr tail:










Based on the information they provide, I'm going with somatic or even just a _de novo_ mutation for her. Wonder if they ever bred her....

As for the Byelorussian Harness Horse, again, it's just a Plain Jain dapple gray:


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## MangoRoX87 (Oct 19, 2009)

my guess...
Probably impossible...but oh well. I'M A DREAMER!

Chimera between a varnish roan pally, a bay, and a sorrel XD


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## 1RedAce (Oct 11, 2011)

i agree he is uniquely colored........without knowing parentage:
i would say palomino paint / appy cross....


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## truckergirl (Sep 27, 2011)

Well guys gonna be a few more weeks before testing. We had another horse become ill and health before curiosity
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WyndellaRose (Nov 7, 2011)

I just joined today and I am so interested to hear what happens when he's tested. Does your vet have any guesses even?


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## najiwench (Nov 7, 2011)

My guess is some sort of sabino plus appaloosa patterning (that would make him pintaloosa, technically). Unfortunately, neither is fully testable..Sabino 1 is testable but the others and Lp are not. 

As far as the base color, maybe a sooty chestnut shade?


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## HorseyyGal (Jun 20, 2011)

Strawberry roan in my books, mostly chestnut with grey hairs mixed throughout


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## caseymyhorserocks (Apr 5, 2010)

Wow hes a beauty! Interested to see what he ends up to be!


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