# Discriminatory practices and rights?.



## jaroberts99

We have just been told by our trainer that she can no longer teach our daughter after 4 years of being her trainer (full time) and 8years knowing her. Our daughter rode competitively on a show team in Novice Hunter division. She claims she has "FAILED" her. She is making us leave our current barn (which we have 2 horses at and we love). She is making us leave the show team that we have been loyal to for the last 4 years. She is forcing our daughter to lose her friends she has made which was so very difficult for her to make. We followed her when she left her old barn(which was 5 mins from us) to help her start her own place (45 mins away). She left rather abruptly and in a unprofessional manner then too. We were literally the last to know she was leaving. I should have known then we were not welcomed. That was a year ago. We were told we were valued and that our daughter was "apart of the team" and "we were family". ALL LIES.

She says that she can not go on teaching her because of our daughter's lack of focus and it's a safety concern. Our daughter was within the last 2 years been diagnosed with Aspergers- A high function form of autism. She is FULLY functional and capable of riding and riding well. Given proper instruction and guidance. Which obviously now this trainer suddenly feels she can not do- after 8 years of knowing her and 4 years of training? We had given her suggestions and even materials on how to help her communicate better with our daughter. None of which she considered. 

My questions is this- is this discrimination? 

This person has betrayed our trust and hurt my daughter beyond repair. We told her that she was to tell our daughter that she can not train her anymore. She did that in less than 3 minutes. That's what we get? 3 mins? after all this? So it was obvious what she had meant to her- NOTHING. She has no idea what this has done to her. We have worked very hard to get her to a point that she is comfortable in the world. This has set her back years. I can't believe someone could be so cruel, disrespectful and heartless after we have shown loyalty to her. She didn't even have the guts to discuss it with us. She had a friend of hers talk to us. We were basically told - no discussion. All she did was sit there with a stoic look on her face- no emotion. 

We also just recently bought over $500 in show gear expecting to use it and now it's wasted. We haven't even worn it. Literally got it 2 weeks ago. We politely asked for a refund and would return the items and she flat out refused. Some of the items are personalized - we get those. Others are not. She refuses to refund any of it. She gave us no notice, no discussion or no option. 

Should we take legal action? under the disability act? is that even worth it? I'd love to hear what you have to say. thank you in advance.


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## farahmay

In my opinion that is discrimination. Some may not agree, however it the lesson were fine up until now, I don't understand why she suddenly changed her mind - was she recently informed of the diagnosis? If so, maybe she had been taken aback, or felt that she would have to treat your daughter differently, like a new person.

As for the legal issue I don't know, that is up to you, and maybe discuss it with a lawyer to see what the chances are of a positive outcome for you.

The whole situation was just dealt with so unprofessionally I don't understand how she can treat you like a random customer she just met when, as you say, you had known each other for 8 years.

Hm, people have the ability to surprise me every new day.


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## Eolith

I'm very sorry that this has happened to you. It truly sounds like this trainer is not treating you fairly or professionally. 

Unfortunately, I suspect that it would be difficult to pursue legal action with regards to disability. Unless she specifically said that this was relating to your daughter's diagnosis of Asperger's, I think it would be difficult to prove beyond reasonable doubt that this was due to discrimination. The trainer's justification that your daughter may pose a safety risk because she does not follow instruction is something that would carry a lot of weight for some people, because safety is paramount when working with horses. Please note that I don't claim to know the extent to which this is a real problem or just a convenient excuse for your trainer.

My best advice is to move on as much as you can and as quickly as you can -- it is clear that this relationship with your trainer is no longer a healthy and positive exchange. Nothing will change that unfortunately. It may well do you more harm than good to linger on the issue and drag painful emotions back to the surface again and again while you are seeking retribution. Far better to let this woman fade away into your past as you and your daughter pursue bigger and better opportunities. 

Try to find another trainer who feels at ease working with your daughter despite her challenges. More one on one time might be beneficial, as opposed to being on a team. Ask your daughter to think about her goals: is showing most important to her, or perhaps just learning some mew riding skills? Speaking from my own experience, I often benefit most greatly from quality time spent with the horses... not the people around them (although if you're lucky enough to meet them, there are some pretty cool horse people out there too).


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## jaroberts99

no she has known of the diagnosis as soon as we found out. We gave her materials and suggestions on how to communicate the best with her. Get her out of "defense mode" so to speak. When she is confronted, stressed or tired she shuts down and doesn't communicate well. Otherwise she is a normal 16 year old. She is introverted but in comfortable situations will open up. Our daughter was very comfortable with this trainer especially after knowing her well for 8 years. We consider her the head of our barn family. We never felt fully apart of the team even though we were told time and time again we were valued. Just makes me sick that there are people like that in the world. We are good people. We treat others with respect. We were loyal and a team player. We would show up to horse shows to support the team even if we weren't riding. To have this done to us is unprofessional, disrespectful and down right WRONG.


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## farahmay

I agree 150% with Eolith, the situation as it is, I would go out and look for a new barn with people who are willing to help your daughter reach her maximum potential.

And if showing is too much or has too high a risk factor associated with it - maybe she can give that aspect of riding up.


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## jaroberts99

showing has never been an issue. Riding has never been an issue. Her trainer being able to communicate with her has.


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## lostastirrup

Honestly a trainer who cannot relate to a student is a poor one. I have had a lotta good riders give me lessons and honestly I can say the one that has taught me the most is not the one with the medals or years of showing grand prix but the one that gave careful thought of relating imperfect people to imperfect horses and getting the best out of them. Your daughter is a teenage girl. Don't sue on disability- I bet it would just embarrass her, give her a competitive goal to work after with her horse and let her prove to herself she can do it on her own or if she isn't particularly competitive maybe focus on the relationship aspect of working with horses. Because really the team part of riding is between the person and the horse and at the end of the day it's only that relationship that is going to win them the blues or give her confidence in her horsemanship.


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## gigem88

You might think of taking her to small claims court for the show stuff you bought. Sorry you were treated that way, but maybe a better instructor is waiting for you to find them??!!


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## natisha

It sounds like your money is no longer needed by her.

Can you go back to the other barn, the close one? They may have a new trainer now.


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## Ashleysmardigrasgirl

IMO, discrimination or not that trainer isn't worth his/her salt to begin with and spending anymore time at that barn with her is akin to lighting money on fire. It's unfortunate that it had to end that way but at least for once the trash seems to have taken itself out.


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## KigerQueen

this peeves me to no end! i would just leave. when people ask about her let them know what she truly is. this person is not worth the rake your horses crap is removed with. let Karma get her in the end. leave the negative place she has created.


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## boots

Why would you want to stay? Why would you want someone who has trouble working with or communicating with your daughter? Why didn't you look for another barn when you sensed you were unwelcome at the last move?

Not everyone is good at communicating. Especially among horse people, it seems. You can't make this trainer develop skills she isn't capable of. Go somewhere else.

Disappointment is a part of everyone's life. How you respond is teaching your daughter how to react to hurt. It's kind of an "oh well" and "let's find something else"


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## Mulefeather

I am sorry you are going through this, but as others have said, legal action is going to be very difficult to find evidence for as well as expensive, and probably not worth the time and money you would spend for any real productive end. I understand that the natural impulse you have is that someone has hurt your child and you want that hurt to stop by any means necessary. 

At this point, I would look elsewhere and get your daughter back in the saddle as soon as possible. She is going to need to learn that people like this exist in the world, and most of them are not anyone you can do anything about except guard your heart and not let them destroy you. Right now you have the chance to teach her a valuable lesson about picking up and moving on with life even when setbacks and unkind people happen along, as they eventually will in any circumstance- that you cannot stop pursuing your dreams because someone decided they couldn’t handle the situation. I’m sure that you are working with a competent therapist or other professional to help manage your daughter’s condition and help her reach her full potential. If she’s a great rider, a good trainer is going to be an effective communicator and figure out ways to connect with her. 

I agree with Eolith that this situation did not sound healthy for your daughter in the long run, so it may be best to find someone who is able and willing to work with your daughter’s needs.


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## ChitChatChet

IMO it sounds like the trainer has issues and it has nothing to do with the OP's child.


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## ConnieO

People truly "stink" sometimes! I do feel for your situation with your daughter. Maybe something else is going on with this trainer in their personal life that really has nothing to do with teaching your daughter specifically, your daughter and you are just caught in the fall out, you know? Who knows what really goes on behind the scenes in someone's life.

Anyway, forgive what the trainer has done to you, chalk it up to an experience that will lead you to making better horse involvement decisions for your daughter in the future. Your daughter is safe and ready to keep trying with horses, which is the better outcome anyway I would think


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## jaydee

I don't know what legal rights you have but other than getting some compensation for the costs of moving and maybe something for the stress its caused I certainly wouldn't want to stay with that trainer a minute longer than I had too
I have had a lot of experience dealing with the condition, I don't know how affected your daughter is by her Asperger's but the majority of children, teens and adults that have it lead a normal life and are accepted 'quirks and all' because no one is perfect or without their bad days and 'off with the fairies' moments
It's entirely up to you but I wouldn't even tell anyone she had it - other than her school teachers if allowances have to be made for some reason - making her a 'special case' in her everyday life won't help her in the long run as sometimes they do use it as a bit of an excuse or a crutch.
Put this behind you. She can still succeed if she wants too - just somewhere else.


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## Textan49

jaydee said:


> I don't know what legal rights you have but other than getting some compensation for the costs of moving and maybe something for the stress its caused I certainly wouldn't want to stay with that trainer a minute longer than I had too
> I have had a lot of experience dealing with the condition, I don't know how affected your daughter is by her Asperger's but the majority of children, teens and adults that have it lead a normal life and are accepted 'quirks and all' because no one is perfect or without their bad days and 'off with the fairies' moments
> It's entirely up to you but I wouldn't even tell anyone she had it - other than her school teachers if allowances have to be made for some reason - making her a 'special case' in her everyday life won't help her in the long run as sometimes they do use it as a bit of an excuse or a crutch.
> Put this behind you. She can still succeed if she wants too - just somewhere else.


 I agree with Jaydee. You have every right to be angry because this was not handled fairly at all. However, if your daughter wants to continue riding and showing she will have to do it elsewhere. It is entirely up to you if you want to take legal action. I don't know what the horse related liability laws are in your state, you may or may not have a good case. It might not be a bad idea for you to research some things, such as, would not disclosing a condition affect your compensation should there be an accident? If your daughter is riding well and showing, she doesn't sound very "handicapped" to me, I hope she continues, and you both can put this behind you.


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## Kristyjog

I would just pick up and move barns. We recently did this over the summer. It was hard on the kids but ended up being a better for for our horses, schedule and kids. Our former horse trainer didn't handle out situation very professionally and showed her true colors. Life isn't always fair, relationships end and its so hard being a mama bear 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MsCuriosity

jaroberts99 said:


> showing has never been an issue. Riding has never been an issue. Her trainer being able to communicate with her has.


I don't mean this to be controversial... I hope it's not taken that way.

I'm sorry that you and your daughter are having to go through this. Your x-trainer was not trained properly, handled the situation poorly, and could not follow through, in the long run, on the materials and suggestions on how to communicate the best your daughter. This is one of the many opportunities you'll have to teach your child that not everyone in life will be pleasant... even friends you've had for years have faults that end up being too much. 

In respect to her Asperger's... before I had my own child, I used to work with special needs kids. I understand that there is a huge difference between a high functioning child and the other end of the spectrum. I was trained for the type of communication and reactionary response that's needed, but your child's x-trainer has not been. After trying for a while, your old instructor decided - in a completely unprofessional and damaging way - that following the list of guidelines and communication techniques you gave her was too much. She felt she couldn't handle safety issues and do well for your child, in addition to the stress of maintaining the her normal routine and training class expectations. She should have talked to you about this in a friendly, professional way... but she did not. Because she didn't, she protected herself from the lawsuit that would have inevitably been issued had she admitted she could not handle the additional measures that come with working with an Asperger's child. It's a weird, sad society that we live in... huh? 

It's my firm belief that if a teacher, classroom or otherwise, has not been trained or is uncomfortable with the unique and subtle differences of working with typically developing vs those who need a little extra attention and guidance, the task should not be put upon them... for the sake of the child! It sounds to me like your x-trainer tried but couldn't pull through in the long run. The main issue, however, is how poorly she handled her inability to help your daughter shine, given your delivered materials and suggestions on how to communicate the best with your daughter. It's a common misconception that everyone should be able to interact with children with Asperger's or Autism. In truth, it requires a special soul or someone who has been trained to benefit the child. Think of all the instruction you've had. Think of all the parents who have been trained and still cannot manage the changes. Some people simply cannot handle a change in the way they do things. I'm sorry your trainer was one of them and it had a bad impact on your daughter. 

Have you heard of Yelp? Angie's List? other review sites? If you cannot take legal action, maybe you can warn others of this trainers unprofessional way of handling situations.


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## Dustbunny

How YOU handle this situation is going to be learning experience for your daughter. You are the example.
I agree that this probably has been handled badly by the instructor. You are hurt and angry and that is understandable. But why consider dragging this on with the drama and expense of legal action? Find another barn and instructor where your daughter will get the understanding and education she deserves. Teach your daughter how to gracefully move on with life and be successful. She must be a competent and talented young lady so do all you can to keep that going.
Good luck to both of you. Go find a barn where those $500 show clothes will get some use.


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## Krisarts

MsCuriosity said:


> It's my firm belief that if a teacher, classroom or otherwise, has not been trained or is uncomfortable with the unique and subtle differences of working with typically developing vs those who need a little extra attention and guidance, the task should not be put upon them... for the sake of the child! It sounds to me like your x-trainer tried but couldn't pull through in the long run. The main issue, however, is how poorly she handled her inability to help your daughter shine, given your delivered materials and suggestions on how to communicate the best with your daughter. It's a common misconception that everyone should be able to interact with children with Asperger's or Autism. In truth, it requires a special soul or someone who has been trained to benefit the child. Think of all the instruction you've had. Think of all the parents who have been trained and still cannot manage the changes. Some people simply cannot handle a change in the way they do things. I'm sorry your trainer was one of them and it had a bad impact on your daughter.
> 
> Have you heard of Yelp? Angie's List? other review sites? If you cannot take legal action, maybe you can warn others of this trainers unprofessional way of handling situations.


I would like to echo the above statements from MsCuriosity.

In my experience, a trainer who can not listen is not a trainer to attempt to work with. I believe the best possible situation would have been the instructor sitting down and explaining her concerns and assisting you with finding another trainer or school to better fit your needs. There are a lot of "shoulds" and even I am deeply saddened by the unprofessional tone of the trainer.

I agree that utilizing Yelp, Angies List etc is one of the best actions if the trainer is unmovable in her views. Maybe a review will prompt a change in her behavior toward future clients. I know I look to reviews and ask questions based on reviews.

My question concerning suing the trainer is: do you believe the return from a lawsuit will outweigh the distress of filing and going through with the suit? I believe the answer to that question will help determine your next steps.

I wish you the best of luck in what you decide is best.


On another note, being a person with a disability myself, I wish some trainers expressed to me they could not handle my disability or work with me and a horse with my disability. The break ups from the trainer/student/horse relationships were trying and I struggled to get through many of them but having said that I'm more prepared for what I look for in a trainer and what questions to ask when I meet them.
:faceshot:

:cowboy:​


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## hollysjubilee

gigem88 said:


> Sorry you were treated that way, but maybe a better instructor is waiting for you to find them??!!


This is always my thought these days when I suffer disappointments and losses.

When it's time for us to move on (something we often resist), we may be forced to do so by people and/or circumstances out of our control. We can hang on and get angrier and angrier and become bitter, fearful of the effects of the hurt and change (which will affect every other relationship and lead to depression) or we can acknowledge the hurt, take courage and admit that we are also guilty of hurting others, ask God for the grace to forgive as we have been forgiven, give thanks for all the good things we have learned in the previous situation, and look forward with hopeful expectation to the new opportunities and relationships that are up the road (and may be even better!)

Change is tough, but there is always a way to see the positives in the opportunities it brings us. Have you heard the saying:

CHANGE IS INEVITABLE; GROWTH IS OPTIONAL

or something an older, wiser friend said to me, once:

"I've come to realize that Life is just a series of adjustments."

When it's time for me to adjust, I now think of it as having "graduated" from one class and getting ready to enroll in another. It's a very common lesson and it seems we have to relearn it many times until we are comfortable with and not surprised by Change. Something better awaits.


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## Textan49

hollysjubilee said:


> This is always my thought these days when I suffer disappointments and losses.
> 
> When it's time for us to move on (something we often resist), we may be forced to do so by people and/or circumstances out of our control. We can hang on and get angrier and angrier and become bitter, fearful of the effects of the hurt and change (which will affect every other relationship and lead to depression) or we can acknowledge the hurt, take courage and admit that we are also guilty of hurting others, ask God for the grace to forgive as we have been forgiven, give thanks for all the good things we have learned in the previous situation, and look forward with hopeful expectation to the new opportunities and relationships that are up the road (and may be even better!)
> 
> Change is tough, but there is always a way to see the positives in the opportunities it brings us. Have you heard the saying:
> 
> CHANGE IS INEVITABLE; GROWTH IS OPTIONAL
> 
> or something an older, wiser friend said to me, once:
> 
> "I've come to realize that Life is just a series of adjustments."
> 
> When it's time for me to adjust, I now think of it as having "graduated" from one class and getting ready to enroll in another. It's a very common lesson and it seems we have to relearn it many times until we are comfortable with and not surprised by Change. Something better awaits.


 This is very true. I can say that I made some of the best changes in my life when I had no other choice but to make a change. There were times when I was angry having to do so, because some part of it wasn't fair, but that didn't change the fact that a change was happening and I had to make the best of it.


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## jaroberts99

natisha said:


> It sounds like your money is no longer needed by her.
> 
> Can you go back to the other barn, the close one? They may have a new trainer now.


That is not an option for us. We honestly don't trust them. We were taken advantage of there as well- we have several reasons as to not go back there.


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## jaroberts99

we stayed because of our daughter. She loved the team and thought the trainer loved her too. Turns out that was never the case. When we left we told her that she was to tell our daughter that we would be leaving. She agreed. She said to her that "she could no longer teach her and that she would be leaving the team and the barn" and then asked her if she had any questions (mind you- things like this take time for my daughter to process- so she had no questions. She was in shock). Then she said "oh yea you like hugs" and gave her a hug (which she never does because she doesn't like to apparently) and then walked out and left the barn leaving us to pick up the pieces of her broken heart. Now we know what a cowardly heartless person she truly is.


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## natisha

jaroberts99 said:


> we stayed because of our daughter. She loved the team and thought the trainer loved her too. Turns out that was never the case. When we left we told her that she was to tell our daughter that we would be leaving. She agreed. She said to her that "she could no longer teach her and that she would be leaving the team and the barn" and then asked her if she had any questions (mind you- things like this take time for my daughter to process- so she had no questions. She was in shock). Then she said "oh yea you like hugs" and gave her a hug (which she never does because she doesn't like to apparently) and then walked out and left the barn leaving us to pick up the pieces of her broken heart. Now we know what a cowardly heartless person she truly is.


Good grief! That would leave anyone speechless.
Some places are like that. They only want cookie cutter clients. 
Find a barn that doesn't require lessons or being on a show team to board there. Most of those show places really only care about the image & the money.

I'm not sure if there is any legal recourse for you because basically you were her employer, hired her for a job & she quit.
Did she at least give you enough time to find a decent new place?


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## Foxhunter

I would forget about suing, not going to do any good to anyone other than lining lawyers pockets. It will all take time and probably drag on for a long time. 

If I were you I would move asap, things happen for a reason though we might not know it at the time. I would pay livery up to the time you move, keep the clothing you bought, they can be used when your daughter continues to compete. 

Very subtly I would let folk know how you were treated. Very unsubtly I would confront this woman in private and give her a lesson in how to treat clients.

You will be better off elsewhere. A tough lesson for your daughter but life can be tough!


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## Saskia

It sucks that you were treated unfairly! However learning to ride from a range of instructors is great, and it might not seem like it but it's a good opportunity. You haven't lost out, your daughter has gained lots of skills and these are still applicable. Try not to dwell on it, not all people are good or kind.

Saying that, I've never felt any sort of relationship like that with an instructor. I've always known that I am hiring them, and they aren't there to be my friend, they are there because it's a job. I don't think that relationship should ever be forgotten. If you were friends or like family they wouldn't be charging you.

As hurt as your daughter was I am not sure what you were expecting asking her to tell your daughter. I can't imagine any of my past instructors saying that any better, and can think of a few that would say it worse. Instructors don't usually have any training with kids or people for that matter, and many are better with horses than people. I don't really know what else she could have said. It's hard ending business relationships with personal feelings get involved for all parties.

My advice is to use instructors for the resoures they are. You'll find more out there. And some will be good and kind and others will be cold and distant but you're not hiring as friends, they are there to be learned from. How they are personally shouldn't enter the equation. 

I feel that you should be able to return some of the gear if it was specific for showing with your ex trainer and purchased off them. Given her reasoning it wasn't a sudden decision and she misled you to buy things. If you are going to pursue anything, pursue that.

Good luck! And ask around about somewhere new and nice to board  people know the nice places


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## hollysjubilee

Saskia said:


> Instructors don't usually have any training with kids or people for that matter, and many are better with horses than people.


Very good point (among other good points you make!). 

There are several well-known horsemen/women (Ray Hunt, Dominque Barbier are two who come to mind) who often have a deeper empathy and patience with horses than they do with the people handling them. (which is what makes them such great trainers) They often see people as the ones screwing up the horses and causing them pain . . . (which is usually the case, whether from ignorance or fear/anger).

Lee Smith who is a follower of Ray Hunt, is one instructor/trainer I have met who seems to have an equal empathy with horses and humans. She truly cares about her students/clients. 

I am sure you will find an instructor who will be able to empathize with your daughter and take her to a different/deeper level in her horsemanship.


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## Textan49

Done correctly being on a show team can be very beneficial to a child, but I feel that some of the barns go too far with it creating too much pressure. It can be stressful for a child to have to school for a show when perhaps they might like to have fun on their horse or maybe not even ride at all that day. And what happens when winning becomes the most important thing and the child doesn't place ? I suggest the OP look for a new barn that is a bit more low key. One where showing is an option and not a requirement. I think she and her daughter would be much more comfortable there


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## Saddlebag

For a while I worked with an ADHD, a teen age girl. She had her own horse so I went there to work with her. I wasn't told that she had ADHD, not that I'd have known how to deal with it. When we ran in to difficulties, I tho't it was because I wasn't conveying the message very well and would rack my brains for ways to rephrase it. We got along well and the girl made great progress. It was when the family had to move that the lessons stopped. That is when I was told. Probably best that I didn't know.


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## stevenson

Did you have a written contract ? If not, you really have nothing to show in court for proof.
You can go in and state she said , her friend said, and you will get shut down. 
Verbal contracts are very difficult to prove. If you have nothing in written form, I would not bother trying to sue. it could just add more stress on your child, but the judge could take your side because of your daughters disability. You could use this as an example explaining to your daughter the difference between a real friend and phony friend. As sad as it is, everyone learns this lesson at some point. i would have friends when I was young, as long as I let them ride my horse, even at the age of 14 15 16 and into my 30's .. Only family members ride my horses now. Maybe you can find a new barn or new trainer and be able to show, even if not on a team, Your daughter should be able to make some new barn friends.


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## BarredDraconis

Dump her and find a new trainer! Just from the understanding of her behavior shows she isn't worth spitting on as a trainer. You need someone who is patient and will always act professionally, especially for your daughter! Colors do change on people, she's a bad color trash her.


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## Chasin Ponies

I keep going back to this post because I have this nagging feeling that something important happened at one of your daughter's recent lessons that must have triggered this especially after 4 solid years with (apparently?)no sign of a problem. Either that, or it was coming for a long, long time.

It's possible that this is one of these trainers who is completely focused on her students _always_ winning, everytime and decided to make a brutal cut in her team, unfortunately in a _very_ brutal cruel manner. And, sorry to say, an instructor cannot afford to keep a child in the program when they sense safety issues- the liability is too great and guess who gets sued when a child gets hurt? She is also not trained to deal with a child with a disability-it takes a very special, patient empathetic personality and this one definitely doesn't have it. She may have been thinking about this for a long time but didn't know how to do it until she suddenly blurted out these nasty comments and walked away. It's _very_ common for horse trainers/instructors to be great with horses and horrible towards humans-they don't realize when they chose this profession that a _huge amount_ of their time will be spent dealing with _people,_ not horses.

There is _no excuse_ for the cruelty she has shown towards your daughter and you have every right to be angry but it is doubtful that taking her to court will do anything but hurt your daughter. Why drag this nastiness on and on-get her off to a more relaxed, casual stable where she can have some fun and stop worrying about performance. There's a lot more to horses than showing, showing, showing.


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## greentree

I suppose to do the team showing(of which I am completely ignorant), you need a trainer, but otherwise, it sounds like she may have done YOU a favor. Find a lovely , quiet place, and let your daughter have FUN with the horses. Take her to shows. Take her to clinics in her discipline. She may find her own path MUCH more fulfilling. There may have been some damaging undercurrents at that barn that you did not pick up on.

Good Luck!!


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## bsms

"_My questions is this- is this discrimination?_"​I'm not sure anyone has a "right" to a trainer or to ride horses. Public law requires, IIRC, reasonable accommodation of handicaps, but a court might decide the professional trainer knows more about what is reasonable around horses than you do. Further, if the instructor has ever dropped clients for reasons related to performance, all she would have to do is say it was related to performance, not the Aspergers."_She says that she can not go on teaching her because of our daughter's lack of focus and it's a safety concern._"​That is probably all she would need to say in court - that the further things went, the more concerned she became about your daughter's safety. She is an expert on horses and you are not.

If your daughter was hurt, the instructor could be found liable for the injuries because she allowed your daughter to ride. The instructor has a positive duty toward their clients to protect them from risks they might not fully appreciate - and the courts WILL hold them to it. The instructor does not need to have perfect knowledge of all possible risks, but she does have a duty to act if she perceives a risk.

The instructor's butt is on the line, and so is your daughter's. The instructor has a duty to minimize your daughter's risk. She has no duty to make you happy, or even to be charming.

Your daughter felt bad. It happens. I have virtually no depth perception. That made me a total loser in many sports. In school, I once watched a kid with a broken arm get picked ahead of me for football. How do you think I felt? It wasn't until years later that I found out I needed glasses to have depth perception.

Maybe the instructor didn't handle things well at parting. I'm sure I wouldn't either. Have you ever tried telling someone they are losing their job? I have, and I'll be darned if I handled it well. Most of us have no training in how to deliver bad news. Many of us hate hurting someone else - yet we don't know how to NOT hurt them with bad news. Sometimes, there just are not any good answers.

I don't think you have a legal claim. I'm not at all convinced you have a moral right to outrage. I've hurt lots of folks without ever intending to do so. I've been rude without knowing it. I've started down a path, and months or even years later realized I had bitten off more than I could chew. It happens. It is part of being human. "_Now we know what a cowardly heartless person she truly is._"​"'Let the one among you who has never sinned throw the first stone at her.' Then he stooped down again and continued writing with his finger on the ground. And when they heard what he said, they...went out, one by one, beginning with the eldest until they had all gone."​I'm not sure the instructor is guilty of anything other than being human. Move on. Teach your daughter to do likewise.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

I keep coming back to this thread and just like Chasin' Ponies, I keep going away not saying anything because we don't have the whole story. You may not be withholding information, you may not even know what the whole story is. In your focus to protect your daughter, you may have missed some hints and warning signs the trainer was giving, trying to let you know that all was not well. It happens. 

So, instead of focusing on that, I'm going to give you a couple of suggestions. 

STOP talking about this either in person or on the web. Even if the trainer was totally wrong, kids find a way to take the blame on themselves for whatever negativity occurs. Your daughter will start focusing on the if onlys, If only she had been more focused, If only she was more athletic, If only she was more outgoing. And it prolongs the hurt. Go find another barn for her. 

Another reason to stop talking about this and saying all these negative things about the trainer is, if I were a trainer in your area and heard or read all of this, I would refuse to take your daughter. NOT because of anything she has or has done but because I would know that if things didn't go the way you think they should, YOU would start spreading negative talk around and that would make your daughter automatically not someone I want to work with. 

And, another point that is more painful to accept. Your daughter is high functioning, by your description, and you want her treated normally and no special consideration given. Not that she shouldn't have special instruction fitted to her limitations, but that she shouldn't be treated like a Faberge Egg. Then allow that she may not be perfect, or up to performing to the standard of the team she was on. She doesn't qualify to stay there just because she has Aspberger's. And she doesn't qualify for a pass on getting her feelings hurt because she has Aspberger's. EVERYONE gets their feelings hurt. It's part of life. Teach her and show her that some people will be less than considerate but not to let that define her and show her how to move on. 

Do you have a legal claim? I doubt it and even if you do, is that the behavior you want your daughter to see you modeling?


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## STT GUY

jaroberts99 said:


> We have just been told by our trainer that she can no longer teach our daughter after 4 years of being her trainer (full time) and 8years knowing her. Our daughter rode competitively on a show team in Novice Hunter division. She claims she has "FAILED" her. She is making us leave our current barn (which we have 2 horses at and we love). She is making us leave the show team that we have been loyal to for the last 4 years. She is forcing our daughter to lose her friends she has made which was so very difficult for her to make. We followed her when she left her old barn(which was 5 mins from us) to help her start her own place (45 mins away). *She left rather abruptly and in a unprofessional manner then too.* *We were literally the last to know she was leaving. I should have known then we were not welcomed. That was a year ago.* We were told we were valued and that our daughter was "apart of the team" and "we were family". ALL LIES.
> 
> She says that she can not go on teaching her because of our daughter's lack of focus and it's a safety concern. Our daughter was within the last 2 years been diagnosed with Aspergers- A high function form of autism. She is FULLY functional and capable of riding and riding well. Given proper instruction and guidance. Which obviously now this trainer suddenly feels she can not do- after 8 years of knowing her and 4 years of training? We had given her suggestions and even materials on how to help her communicate better with our daughter. None of which she considered.
> 
> My questions is this- is this discrimination?
> 
> This person has betrayed our trust and hurt my daughter beyond repair. We told her that she was to tell our daughter that she can not train her anymore. She did that in less than 3 minutes. That's what we get? 3 mins? after all this? So it was obvious what she had meant to her- NOTHING. She has no idea what this has done to her. We have worked very hard to get her to a point that she is comfortable in the world. This has set her back years. I can't believe someone could be so cruel, disrespectful and heartless after we have shown loyalty to her. She didn't even have the guts to discuss it with us. She had a friend of hers talk to us. We were basically told - no discussion. All she did was sit there with a stoic look on her face- no emotion.
> 
> We also just recently bought over $500 in show gear expecting to use it and now it's wasted. We haven't even worn it. Literally got it 2 weeks ago. We politely asked for a refund and would return the items and she flat out refused. Some of the items are personalized - we get those. Others are not. She refuses to refund any of it. She gave us no notice, no discussion or no option.
> 
> Should we take legal action? under the disability act? is that even worth it? I'd love to hear what you have to say. thank you in advance.


I bolded the warning that this behavior would repeat.

Small claims court for the clothes....ALL of them. You had a verbal contract and she sold you the clothes and then kicked you to the curb. That is premeditated and shouldn't be all that difficult to prove. Other, and better option is contact your credit card company RIGHT NOW and dispute the entire charge based on they were part of a package which included the coaching up to and at the event, and the goods and services were not delivered as promised. You will win, I can help you if you want.

Discrimination.... going to be nearly impossible. The relationship is an "at will" one which can be terminated without cause by either party, unless you had a binding contract for a period certain and a termination clause.

As far as your daughter..this is a life lesson that she needs to try as best she is able to understand. You wont be around forever to protect her. Try as best you can to explain to her that not everyone in the world has her best interest in mind and not everyone is a nice or ethical person. You can (and should) shoulder some of the blame as well. "mom and dad try very hard but sometimes even we get fooled by an unscrupulous/mean person". Explain to her how some people use others only for personal gain and then toss them aside afterwards. 

Don't get wrapped up in a court case....ask yourself "how will this benefit my daughter and make her situation better?" Answer is IT WILL NOT.

Sorry to be direct but I have an older brother who is mentally challenged and people took advantage of him a lot. I chose carefully (and still do) which battles to fight (some literally) and which to use as a lesson, for me and him. 

There is a special place in hell for people who treat folks the way she did. When she falls and gets severely injured or paralyzed she'll wonder "why me..?" You'll know why. Karma is a cruel mistress.


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## updownrider

> We also just recently bought over $500 in show gear expecting to use it and now it's wasted. We haven't even worn it. Literally got it 2 weeks ago. We politely asked for a refund and would return the items and she flat out refused. Some of the items are personalized - we get those. Others are not. She refuses to refund any of it. She gave us no notice, no discussion or no option.


I am wondering about this show gear. What gear did you buy that can't be used at the next barn?


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## Corporal

lostastirrup said:


> Honestly a trainer who cannot relate to a student is a poor one.


She certainly lacks ethics. You, on the other hand, lack common sense, IMO. When I taught lessons (1980's-1990's) I gave my students the list of local places to buy from, AND the phone# and Address for State Line Tack and Chick's Saddlery, for catalogs, told them the bare minimum of clothing and equipment, and expected them to buy these on their own. I was surprised to hear that you bought them from this trainer, which sounds like a scam. 
I think it is good for you and your daughter to find a new trainer.
If you don't mind some more advice, life sucks and she needs to realize that some people that she trusted will leave her life and may be replaced by others, like a new trainer who will listen to what the two of you want to get out of horse showing. She has a disability, not a handicap, and doesn't sound like the boy that had Asberger's in a 4th grade classroom I student-taught in, AND he was violent. Honestly, if your daughter cannot handle this, it would be better for her to not show. I suspect, however, that she'll accept this and move on.
In Illinois anything under $3,000.00 loss won't be heard in our courts. I have never believed that rider's clothing was ever a waste of money. I needed some jeans to school in and bought a pair on sale at Rural King last week for $15.00
They have severe bling!!!!...but they'll suffice.


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## updownrider

Corporal said:


> You, on the other hand, lack common sense, IMO. When I taught lessons (1980's-1990's) I gave my students the list of local places to buy from, AND the phone# and Address for State Line Tack and Chick's Saddlery, for catalogs, told them the bare minimum of clothing and equipment, and expected them to buy these on their own. I was surprised to hear that you bought them from this trainer, which sounds like a scam.


There is no need to insult the OP until we know what gear was purchased. Many show barns request or require their students and horses wear matching attire. It is not a scam. It is very similar to students wearing school colors and uniforms to show school pride. It sounds like you gave lessons at your own barn, not at horse shows, where matching attire was not necessary.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

updownrider said:


> There is no need to insult the OP until we know what gear was purchased. Many show barns request or require their students and horses wear matching attire. It is not a scam. It is very similar to students wearing school colors and uniforms to show school pride. It sounds like you gave lessons at your own barn, not at horse shows, where matching attire was not necessary.


This is true. When Cloney was showing, he ended up with 3 different sets of matching blankets, sheets, sleezies, halter & lead and wraps. 1 for the halter trainer, 1 for the Hunter trainer and one for the Western trainer. They cost considerably more than $500 and that doesn't count the Tshirts, caps and jackets I bought ad nauseum.


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## updownrider

Corporal said:


> In Illinois anything under $3,000.00 loss won't be heard in our courts.


Off topic, but are you saying Illinois does not have small claims court?


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## kewpalace

Corporal said:


> In Illinois anything under $3,000.00 loss won't be heard in our courts.


 Per the Ill. Atty. General's webpage, nything under $10k can heard in small claims court


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## bsms

I don't think you can sue for discrimination in small claims courts. They are set up to handle "I paid A amount B to get C, but got D instead". If one sued over the clothing costs, then one might or might not get something back. My experience with small claims courts is that the law is even more irrelevant there than in a regular court...:icon_rolleyes:

I cannot imagine an attorney handling this on a contingency basis (not a strong case), and you would run up $15K in bills before stepping inside a regular court. But I'm not a lawyer.

If someone wants to know the real answer, many county bar associations have a referral program that allows you to talk once with a lawyer for a small, set fee. In my county, $35 buys you 30 minutes - a bargain by lawyer standards!


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## kewpalace

If she fashions her action as a breach of contract she could sue in small claims court. 

Regardless, based on her facts it is unlikely she would win in any court, IMO. And based on the facts it is unlikely a good lawyer would take the case. I've seen many cases that should not be in court that were brought by not-so-good lawyers. All they do is cost $$ (contingency cases & even those taken on pro bono typically require the client to pay for costs)and stress to the client. Doing the case in pro per is very stressful as many people do not know or understand the procedural aspects in filing/sustaining a case let alone the legal aspects of what they need to support their case. Lawsuits are not cheap and are extremely stressful. I agree with those who recommended moving on and finding a GOOD trainer who understands and is willing to teach the daughter.


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## STT GUY

kewpalace said:


> Per the Ill. Atty. General's webpage, nything under $10k can heard in small claims court


Yet another reason to move away from that state. Small Claims court was invented to handle claims UNDER 10k.


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## updownrider

kewpalace said:


> Per the Ill. Atty. General's webpage, nything under $10k can heard in small claims court





STT GUY said:


> Yet another reason to move away from that state. Small Claims court was invented to handle claims UNDER 10k.


That is what kewpalace said. 

From the link provided:


> The *maximum* judgment allowed in small claims court is *$10,000.00* plus costs; therefore, your claim *may not exceed $10,000.00*.


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## natisha

STT GUY said:


> Yet another reason to move away from that state. Small Claims court was invented to handle claims UNDER 10k.


Yes, that's what she said "Anything under 10K."


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## jaroberts99

The gear has the barn logo all over it. We do not want to promote her barn in anyway. Some items do have our name on them- understandable she would not want those, however there are items she could easily resell to another client and we could recoup some of our cost since the items were never used.


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## updownrider

I have seen riders leave barns that had logos on gear many times and never have I seen the barn buy back gear. Typically it is up to the rider as the owner of the gear to privately offer the gear for sale. I am sure there are blankets in my family's farm colors out there that we never bought back, just as we have blankets in other colors we elected to buy if we were training or stabling with another barn.


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## jaroberts99

Thank you all for your responses. We have decided to move to another barn and were able to get our horses out safely and quickly. We are no longer going to associate ourselves with this person. The gear is specific barn wear that has logos all over it. Hats, wind jackets, a chair, for all of us. The trainer wanted a "professional" look for the girls and clients to wear. It was only required for the girls, but being loyal clients we purchased the items with the intent of using them. Now we no longer have a use for them nor do we want to promote her business in any way. Some of the items are personalized and we understand those not to be returnable but the items without names could be easily sold to another client. These items were costly. The jacket alone was $60 a piece. We bought 3. Plus the required items for our daughter that alone was $200. Not money we would have spent when she already has perfectly fine items to use. Again it totaled over $500 worth of stuff. 

We have moved to our new location and looking forward to a fresh new start. thank you all for your help and letting me vent.


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## Corporal

HOORAY!!! SOOOO glad to hear that you've moved!!

Wishing you and your daughter happy showing in the future. **hugs**
Btw, you might be able to use a seam ripper on any embroidered saddle pads, etc. and remove stitching. I sew (when there is time) and have spent many hours ripping out seams. =D


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## jaroberts99

Corporal said:


> HOORAY!!! SOOOO glad to hear that you've moved!!
> 
> Wishing you and your daughter happy showing in the future. **hugs**
> Btw, you might be able to use a seam ripper on any embroidered saddle pads, etc. and remove stitching. I sew (when there is time) and have spent many hours ripping out seams. =D


unfortunately they are vinyl logos or something like that. Not sure. If anyone knows of any way to get that off with damaging the items that would be helpful. They are nice items, despite the logo and obviously a loss if not usable. thanks.


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## Mulefeather

Good to hear about moving barns and that you've gotten out of there.

Maybe the jackets just need to be relegated to your dirtiest chores from here on out. What you are describing sounds like screen printing rather than embroidery. On a windbreaker you might not be able to use heat/nail polish remover, but cloth items like hats it might work for.


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## greentree

Put an ad on craigslist or even the bulletin board at the barn, if you know someone to put it up for you.

Glad you got out of there!


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## hollysjubilee

jaroberts99 said:


> unfortunately they are vinyl logos or something like that. Not sure. If anyone knows of any way to get that off with damaging the items that would be helpful. They are nice items, despite the logo and obviously a loss if not usable. thanks.


I bet you can find some applique or bling or something to cover over the old logos 
or
offer them for sale on Craigslist or on a barn bulletin board. There may be a present boarder of hers who will want them, or a past boarder who wants to rekindle memories. 
Glad you are set in your new place. It will take some time to find your niche, I'm sure, but I hope it will flow naturally, and the new things you all learn will affirm you in your move and your journey in horsemanship.


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## natisha

jaroberts99 said:


> The gear has the barn logo all over it. We do not want to promote her barn in anyway. Some items do have our name on them- understandable she would not want those, however there are items she could easily resell to another client and we could recoup some of our cost since the items were never used.


Put a red circle with a line through it over the logo, wear it to shows.


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## hollysjubilee

natisha said:


> Put a red circle with a line through it over the logo, wear it to shows.


:rofl::rofl::rofl:
Good one . . . lol


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## Elana

Sew a something over the logo on the chairs and so forth.. or use duct tape!  LOL

I read through all this. One summer I taught a high functioning girl how to ride horseback. It was one on one and as the summer progressed she went from a horse with heaves that slowly walked around to more challenging mounts. The last one was very naughty and the girl who was afraid to get on a horse smacked Mr. Naughty guy and laughed at him (that gelding was so deflated when she laughed at him). 

The only question I have in all this is, in retrospect, would you have been better off NOT telling this trainer about your daughter's diagnosis? Under HIPPA she had no right to know this.

Working with young adults and others on the spectrum takes.. a lot of patience. I am so glad for you that you found someone who will work with your daughter so she can continue to enjoy riding.


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## Mulefeather

Elana, as someone who works daily within HIPAA laws as part of my job, you are misunderstanding the law completely. If a patient or their legal guardian chooses to inform someone of their condition, that is completely up to them and perfectly legal. HIPAA only affects those who work with medical information, nobody will beat your door down for talking about Aunt Sally's embarassing flatulence issue at the dinner table. 

If the instructor had for instance requested a note from a doctor or psychologist stating that the daughter was fit enough physically or mentally to ride before allowing her to participate, that would also be within her rights to protect herself as an insurance/safety risk- and the parents could choose to not provide or release that information, but the instructor could also choose to turn them away as clients if they didn't. 

However, the instructor could not call the child's doctor and demand that information to be released directly to her unless the parents authorized it. 

If you are a business owner, you are perfectly within your rights to turn away someone who you believe is a safety risk in a dangerous activity. 

HIPAA protects patients from having their medical records released without their consent to unauthorized individuals- say, your mother cannot go to your pharmacy and request a list of every prescription you have ever had filled. Your doctor cannot tell your best friend that you need athsma medicine or that you've got toe fungus. Caregivers and those with access to private information have to take precautions to make sure that identifying information is not just tossed in the trash and is disposed of properly.


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## Corporal

natisha said:


> put a red circle with a line through it over the logo, wear it to shows.


roflmao!!!


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## Elana

TY Mulefeather for the explanation. 

I have become super sensitive to this (not for me.. ) due to work situations.


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## egrogan

I've been following this and held back on responding because I'm not an expert on how ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) applies in non-public education settings. But since this instructor had clear and direct knowledge of your daughter's disability, and chose to deny service because of that disability, that to me (a non-lawyer) raises a red flag. My basic Google searching does not provide any clear answer to whether or not a private instructor can deny service on the basis of disability, so I've held back on offering a pseudo-legal opinion. I agree with others that it's probably not worth the money and heartache for your family to pursue a lawsuit- but part of me thinks that if this happened to you, this could happen to other families in the future, and that just doesn't feel right. If you have lawyer friends or a legal aid office with expertise in disabilities, I'd probably consider a conversation with them to explain the circumstances and see what they say. 

But I don't know, it may just be best to let the issue fade away and enjoy your new barn.

Most of all, I wish you good luck with your daughter and her riding!


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## bsms

You cannot deny service based on a disability alone. You can deny service based on a disability that creates a situation you believe is unsafe. If I taught shooting, I would have no obligation to teach a blind person how to shoot on a range. We have a friend who has balance problems. Outside of a therapeutic riding facility, I can't imagine anyone trying to teach her to ride.

The ability to stay focused isn't a safety issue for all riding. My youngest often rides Trooper on a trail while she is at least halfway to La-La Land. With Trooper, that is fine. But if she wanted to compete, I could easily imagine an instructor telling her to either focus more or leave.


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## Foxhunter

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> This is true. When Cloney was showing, he ended up with 3 different sets of matching blankets, sheets, sleezies, halter & lead and wraps. 1 for the halter trainer, 1 for the Hunter trainer and one for the Western trainer. They cost considerably more than $500 and that doesn't count the Tshirts, caps and jackets I bought ad nauseum.


When I read something like this I think - "Bigger fool you!" 

I don't mean this in a nasty way I just cannot see why a team has to have everything the same when out of the arena.

I have trained many teams for competitions and although I would expect them to wear the same when competing out of the arena what difference does it make? 

Only for the Olympics of World Championships do teams were the same out of the arena and that is because the the things are donated by sponsors. 

When I trained a team for a Musical Ride, they all had to be dressed the same. The girls riding sidesaddle had the aprons made for them, their blouses were white school shirts, I bought net lace curtains cut into strips and sewed frills on the sleeves collar and cuffs. 
The boys wore their jodhpurs, the it tail coats were borrowed along with the top hats, mostly from undertakers. 

Riders had no extra expenses at all.


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## Saddlebag

I'm beginning to think the OP may be a helicopter parent. Your daughter may be feeling burned out, overwhelmed, pushed, whatever and the trainer may have picked up on this. Parents who become too involved (guilt maybe) often provide pressure just by hanging around. Maybe it's time to listen to your daughter. Maybe she needs time to enjoy just riding with no set goal to achieve. Just be careful that her goals aren't your goals.


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## updownrider

Foxhunter said:


> When I read something like this I think - "Bigger fool you!"
> 
> I don't mean this in a nasty way I just cannot see why a team has to have everything the same when out of the arena.
> 
> I have trained many teams for competitions and although I would expect them to wear the same when competing out of the arena what difference does it make?
> 
> Only for the Olympics of World Championships do teams were the same out of the arena and that is because the the things are donated by sponsors.
> 
> When I trained a team for a Musical Ride, they all had to be dressed the same. The girls riding sidesaddle had the aprons made for them, their blouses were white school shirts, I bought net lace curtains cut into strips and sewed frills on the sleeves collar and cuffs.
> The boys wore their jodhpurs, the it tail coats were borrowed along with the top hats, mostly from undertakers.
> 
> Riders had no extra expenses at all.


It is NOT only the Olympics or WEG teams that have matching gear. Did you read my post(s) a page or so ago? Don't call someone a fool because you do not understand the US or North American customs. It is very common in the US that barns have matching stall curtains, blankets, saddle pads, sheets, hats, chairs, jackets, etc. It brings about a sense of pride and team spirit. There are companies that specialize in this and one woman I know (with several employees) can hardly keep up with the orders. At the bigger shows, there are vendors that make customized gear on the spot. 

Here are some set ups you will see at horse show. Almost every barn has some sort of set up even at the smaller shows. It is not hard to imagine that clients will buy a cap, jacket and chair with logo to match.


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## Textan49

Not a lawyer here but this whole thing is complicated. A person of a different race can be denied a job if they do not have the ability or education. For this situation to be "discrimination" the girl needs to be considered disabled which may put the trainer in the legal position to refuse on grounds of not being qualified to teach her. She could also take the stand of having the right of refusing to teach anyone who has a focus or communication problem and the Asperger's has nothing to do with it. She could also use the fact of having taught her for several years as a sign of her good intention. I would definitely let the idea of a discrimination suit go. There may be some satisfaction to be gained by returning the team gear for a refund. I would suggest getting some legal advice first, either from a lawyer or even someone working in the court. Unless there is a better than a 50/50 chance of winning, I would not bother. The best thing for the girl's sake is to just move on to something better. It would not be good for her to feel that her Asperger's or anything that she did caused this problem.


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## boots

updownrider said:


> It is NOT only the Olympics or WEG teams that have matching gear. Did you read my post(s) a page or so ago? Don't call someone a fool because you do not understand the US or North American customs. It is very common in the US that barns have matching stall curtains, blankets, saddle pads, sheets, hats, chairs, jackets, etc. It brings about a sense of pride and team spirit. There are companies that specialize in this and one woman I know (with several employees) can hardly keep up with the orders. At the bigger shows, there are vendors that make customized gear on the spot.
> 
> Here are some set ups you will see at horse show. Almost every barn has some sort of set up even at the smaller shows. It is not hard to imagine that clients will buy a cap, jacket and chair with logo to match.


Off topic: But the above is why showing does not really mean much. You have many, many excellent riders who eschew the pretentious and find other meaningful outlets for their skills.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

Foxhunter said:


> When I read something like this I think - "Bigger fool you!"
> 
> I don't mean this in a nasty way I just cannot see why a team has to have everything the same when out of the arena.


LOL, that is just SO not how it's done here at Arabian Nationals (heck even regionals are pretty upscale) or at the Word Champs for the other breeds. It isn't just expected, it's pretty much de rigueur and if you can't keep up, then you need to find other things to do. The money I spent on Cloney's "garments" and my team wear was a drop in the bucket compared to what it cost to go to US Nationals with a trainer and top flight barn. And that's not a brag, that's a painful yelp! 

Just for fun, here's a link to one of the private farm tours that is held at Scottsdale for the Arabian Show, And it's only an "A" Show! 

Gemini Acres - 8th Annual Farm Tour :: Arabian Horses, Stallions, Farms, Arabians, for sale - Arabian Horse Network, www.arabhorse.com


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## greentree

The first time I went to Scottsdale, I think I had been to Arabian Sport Horse Nationals the Fall before (the Scottsdale show is in February). There was a lady with a booth with beautiful stall curtains, and all of the matching bags, covers, etc. I stayed there fo hours looking at fabric. 

She told me that I really NEEDED all of her stuff, so that my competitors knew I was serious, and I told her that I MUCH preferred to just go in quietly, and sneak up on them to BEAT them. They do not even know I am there, until my number gets called for roses!!


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## bsms

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> ...It isn't just expected, it's pretty much de rigueur and if you can't keep up, then you need to find other things to do...
> 
> ...Just for fun, here's a link to one of the private farm tours that is held at Scottsdale for the Arabian Show, And it's only an "A" Show...


Pictures like that are why I was tempted to get a bumper sticker that said "My Arabian mare can beat up your Arabian show stallion" and drive up to Scottsdale!

It is also why I dropped out of the AHA. The AHA caters to those clients and didn't seem very interested in those of us who just have a weakness for good looking but somewhat skittish trail horses. Mia & I were just not into matching garments and team gear:
















​
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But slightly closer to topic, perhaps some laid back riding would be good for the OP's daughter - where attention to detail means attention to your horse and your riding from a strictly functional standard. Or, if she is like my youngest, where the only standard is "Are you and your horse a match?" - some people (and horses) were born to be laid back:










At least she was pretending to use the stirrups in that picture...:icon_rolleyes:​


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## Textan49

bsms said:


> Pictures like that are why I was tempted to get a bumper sticker that said "My Arabian mare can beat up your Arabian show stallion" and drive up to Scottsdale!
> 
> It is also why I dropped out of the AHA. The AHA caters to those clients and didn't seem very interested in those of us who just have a weakness for good looking but somewhat skittish trail horses. Mia & I were just not into matching garments and team gear:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> But slightly closer to topic, perhaps some laid back riding would be good for the OP's daughter - where attention to detail means attention to your horse and your riding from a strictly functional standard. Or, if she is like my youngest, where the only standard is "Are you and your horse a match?" - some people (and horses) were born to be laid back:
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> 
> At least she was pretending to use the stirrups in that picture...:icon_rolleyes:​


 Ah yes, how many times do we as children or beginners at something, end up doing what we think we want because it is expected of us, only to realize later that it was not in our heart ? Experience is good however, and important in finding our way in life. The nice part of riding is the variations that make it possible for everyone to find their niche


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## Foxhunter

updownrider said:


> It is NOT only the Olympics or WEG teams that have matching gear. Did you read my post(s) a page or so ago? Don't call someone a fool because you do not understand the US or North American customs. It is very common in the US that barns have matching stall curtains, blankets, saddle pads, sheets, hats, chairs, jackets, etc. It brings about a sense of pride and team spirit. There are companies that specialize in this and one woman I know (with several employees) can hardly keep up with the orders. At the bigger shows, there are vendors that make customized gear on the spot.
> 
> Here are some set ups you will see at horse show. Almost every barn has some sort of set up even at the smaller shows. It is not hard to imagine that clients will buy a cap, jacket and chair with logo to match.


Even at the Olympics they do not have a longe set up, matching curtains et al. 

Major shows in the UK are to crowded to allow for such unnecessary luxuries. Now, the horseboxes do have luxurious living quarters but many of the top competitors are on the road more days than at home.

Living on an island for me to compete at regional level was expensive adding unnecessary costs would have put me out of action.

More than once returning home from a show if the weather was rough they would not ship the horses so, some were sent over as foot passengers the rest of us slept in the wagon, on the floor or in the luton, the area above the cab, it was a crowd as there was all the tack and other stuff, horses were also in the wagon. 

It made for a great adventure, far more fun than having a 'lounge' or matching curtains.


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## updownrider

Foxhunter said:


> Even at the Olympics they do not have a longe set up, matching curtains et al.


London Olympics, matching curtains. I do not know what a "longe" is. 

There are horse shows that do not have unlimited space so elaborate set ups are not possible. However, there is usually room for a banner and maybe wall panels between stalls.


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## jaydee

Showing here in the US is a very different world to Showing in the UK - its just the way it is - and it stays that way because so many people like it.
There's a massive amount of money goes in to the sport as a whole, certainly a big learning curve for us.

OP - I'm glad you've found a new barn and I hope your daughter will be happy there
Unless someone has a child with something like Aspergers they don't understand why its really hard to not be a helicopter parent. They can appear to be so normal and often very intelligent and then do or say things that take other people by surprise, like not knowing their telephone numbers or the one that came from a 20 something year old that had managed to survive a gap year job, passed their driving test no problems and flying back and forth from Uni on their own 
"Is Christmas Day always on the 25th?

Riding can really appeal to them because it is very structured, it might take longer for new things to sink in but any good trainer should be used to that if they've taught beginners of any sort because it really is like learning a foreign language to anyone new to the sport


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## Foxhunter

updownrider said:


> London Olympics, matching curtains. I do not know what a "longe" is.
> 
> There are horse shows that do not have unlimited space so elaborate set ups are not possible. However, there is usually room for a banner and maybe wall panels between stalls]


Auto correct guess I write longe more than lounge! As in sitting room


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## updownrider

I thought it was a British term I was not familiar with! Sorry.


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## boots

Foxhunter said:


> ... the rest of us slept in the wagon, on the floor or in the luton, the area above the cab, it was a crowd as there was all the tack and other stuff, horses were also in the wagon.
> 
> It made for a great adventure, far more fun than having a 'lounge' or matching curtains.


Sounds like the US Open polo finals in Wellington. Camping in the horse trailers, six and eight of us crashing the patrons (pah-trones) digs.

I always get welcomed because I know how to cook quickly for a crowd due to my ranching background and am happy to do it whether in a kitchen or outdoors.

The fanciest a team gets is having a sun cover at fieldside. Maybe even with their name on it. And a cooler of waters for players and grooms. A player I know had some guests arrive before he did. They hooked up his large fan to blow on the shaded area. He arrived, visited nicely while moving the fan to cool the horses.


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## updownrider

boots - if you have been to Wellington (Florida) for polo then you have seen fancy set ups. I've been going there since the '70s. They may not set up at the games, but the farms and stables in Wellington are amazing. Tommy Lee Jones supposedly turned down over $20 million for his 40 acre polo farm this year.


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## boots

updownrider said:


> boots - if you have been to Wellington (Florida) for polo then you have seen fancy set ups. I've been going there since the '70s. They may not set up at the games, but the farms and stables in Wellington are amazing. Tommy Lee Jones supposedly turned down over $20 million for his 40 acre polo farm this year.


Does he even play anymore? I've only seen him plod around on foot looking jaded.

Yes, there are some nice barns, but with the exception of a couple, most are very functional and the set ups at games are not pretentious.

Some of the spectators are, but they are generally not even horsemen.


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## ojzab

jaroberts99 said:


> we stayed because of our daughter. She loved the team and thought the trainer loved her too. Turns out that was never the case. When we left we told her that she was to tell our daughter that we would be leaving. She agreed. She said to her that "she could no longer teach her and that she would be leaving the team and the barn" and then asked her if she had any questions (mind you- things like this take time for my daughter to process- so she had no questions. She was in shock). Then she said "oh yea you like hugs" and gave her a hug (which she never does because she doesn't like to apparently) and then walked out and left the barn leaving us to pick up the pieces of her broken heart. Now we know what a cowardly heartless person she truly is.


I'm sorry if this will sound harsh. I have a teen on the spectrum, and we recently had to leave our barn under stressful circumstances where the barn owner went crazy on us. I can certainly relate. I'd be upset and angry as well. 

However, I can't escape the thought that putting both your trainer and your daughter on the spot like this was practically inviting the trainer to hurt your daughter's feelings. I'd never ever lead my somewhat on the spectrum teen into a potentially damaging situation with a person I don't fully trust. Did you really expect this kind of a discussion being beneficial for your daughter? 

Your ex-trainer handled things beyound poorly. However, asking her to talk to your daughter was manipulative and passive aggressive on your part. Your lovely daughter's heart could've been less broken, if you were there for her. I don't mean to shelter her from reality, not at all. But you daughter didn't have to be put in that situation, period.


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## stevenson

You do need to tell trainers and barn owners about your daughters illness, and how disabled she actually is from this disease.
She is taking lessons and if her attention span is limited, or if she gets upset and cannot concentrate or listen , it could cause injury to her and others . She probably does not respond well to stern voices which many trainers use, and they do yell ( get loud) so they can be heard in an arena. Perhaps you could find a barn that has a trainer that specializes with disabled children .


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## Yogiwick

natisha said:


> Put a red circle with a line through it over the logo, wear it to shows.


This made my day.

I have had similar issues. Nice new expensive items with logo's I don't want to promote.


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