# Critique this colt. Opinions - can I correct him?



## New_image

Smokey Black Thoroughbred. Coming two year old. By Guaranteed Gold out of one of our Puchilingui daughters (born prior to our purchasing the mare). This was her first colt. His owner offered him to me but feels he should be kept a stallion. 
The colt has never been outside of his stall. He was stunning as a foal but has gone down hill since, he actually looks much better here than the last time I saw him about six months ago. 

I know he is to young for a honest to goodness critique and I am also aware that these pictures are awful. I snapped them quick in between his flailing around and carrying on. He needs a *lot* of work (Needs to accept being touched, handled, learn to lead, tie, he has never seen a farrier, learn to not bite, not kick people and as stated he hasn't even seen the outdoors... ohh yippy, all I can say is I hope he inherited his sires disposition!) 

Judging by the photos, give me some feed back. Critique. Do you think with some popper feeding and turning him out, he'll straiten out? His knees are big from standing in the cement stall, hocks also, at his young age what are the chances we'll correct that? I am also wondering what the chances are he'd be sound, sigh.


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## ErikaLynn

I think with a good hoof trim he would be much better, and more comfortable. His feet now are awful.


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## Monty77

I'm no very good with this conformation critique stuff, but I agree with the above. He looks really nice to me, with a good trim he should be ready to go. Beautiful colour by the way, I wish you luck with him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## trailhorserider

What a crying shame he has never left his stall. That's no way to grow a horse. :-(

I would agree with everyone else and say the first order of importance is getting those feet trimmed! 

Maybe the best thing to do would be to get a vet's advice on his knees/legs. (And if he's as unhandled as you say, you might need to vet for that too as he may not stand quietly, so you might kill two birds with one stone- get the vet's advice and get him tranq'd for hoof trimming at the same time).

I still can't get over the owner thinks he's a stallion prospect and yet never gave him any turnout or anything!?? How can that be? Like "hmm, he'd be a great stud but I don't want to turn him out and actually let him grow healthy or anything" (scratches head). :think:

Well, no real advice here as it is out of my expertise, but if I were looking at him, I would get the advice of a vet I trust. 

Best of luck with him! I hope whatever you do, it works out best for both you and the horse.


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## trailhorserider

PS. I wonder if you posted this in the "hoof care" section you might get the advice of some farriers. They might have seen similar cases and would know the prospects of him being sound.


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## Alwaysbehind

I am not sure I get why it matters that people who do not give him even the most basic care think he should remain a stallion.

His feet are a disaster. The rest of him does not scream stallion. Take this poor boy, get his feet done and geld him.


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## Saranda

Isn't keeping a horse within four walls (a stallion, nonetheless!!) considered abuse?? That causes major health and emotional problems for a horse, stallion or no stallion, and I've seen some cases, how downhill such horses can go!


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## Alwaysbehind

Saranda said:


> Isn't keeping a horse within four walls (a stallion, nonetheless!!) considered abuse??


Lots of horses live in stalls. No, it is not abuse.


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## Saranda

Well, it sounds horrible to me, if lots of horses are kept in stalls 24/7. It's against any of their natural needs - to graze, to run, to communicate with the herd, etc. - and against the needs of their health, too.


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## New_image

I feel that he needs his feet trimmed and a few months of free movement before he is judged to harshly, but at this time I do not see anything that screams he _needs _to be kept a stallion either. 
I have a couple of mares from the same farm, one is his dam. She was outside with minimal handling but has come around nicely. The other is her half sister who was in a stall until I picked her up (age 5) and she appears cow hocked from how her feet were left to grow as a baby and has the same swollen knees. She was in this stall longer, obviously, until five but the knees haven't gone down and she just grew a bit crooked which at this point cannot be fixed. With this boy being a coming two year old I was hoping getting him out now would fix some of this. Its really a shame if he cannot be fully used as he is a very nice horse. 

As far as getting a vets advice he would have to be hauled a good hour and a half away, certainly sedated and then looked at. Anyone local would be A. un-educated without any fancy equipment and B. afraid of him.

I have told her to sign me up and give me a few days to get some fencing switched around. Either way, he certainly deserves the time to learn how to be a horse, basic ground manners and have these feet done.


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## Elana

His sire is not a Stakes winner and really has nothing in his own right other than inspections and he is a colorful (double dilute Cremello). His stud fee is planned to be $1200 which is not an outstanding fee. The Dam's sire was a Sabino.. so this colt was created about color as much as conformation. I see no compelling reason to keep this horse we see here a stallion. 

His upbringing is sadly neglectful. Stalling a horse in and of itself is not cruel.. but never handling the horse and just stalling it and feeding it is not exactly kind. He has been kept a prisoner. I wonder how good his eyesight is (not focusing on distant objects is something that is part of an animal's development!). I also wonder at the bone hardness and structure... 

His feet need help. He has become slipper footed (and no one can pick his feet up I bet). His heels are curling under and are low with a long toe. I wonder at the thickness of his hoof walls when I see that.. but a good trim is in order and a farrier/vet might give you a better prognosis on the feet. If he has contracted frogs and so forth it may be a long road back (at 2 years old you do have time). 

He looks pretty good in type and his sire and grandsire are a decent type. He needs time.. he needs training and handling.. he needs feet done.. He is going to be like starting with a feral horse in a lot of respects. A strong round pen to start (that he cannot jump out of!) and patience.. I think he looks worth it. He does have a very straight hind leg (photo number 2) and he does not have an open angle at the point of shoulder (this may change some.. but the level humorus says he won't jump nicely). 

Good luck. He will be a project!


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## New_image

Thank-you very much Elana, my thoughts as well. 
I have wondered about his eye site, his bone, his hoof walls etc and am with you. I feel he is worth it, he'll be a long project but being two he should "straiten out" with work and become a decent ride for someone. I am sure he'll need to be sedated for his feet to be trimmed, and then there is the question of WHO in my area can take on such a corrective trim.


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## MHFoundation Quarters

Bless you New Image for taking him on. Such a shame he was let go like that. Sending well wishes for you and the little guy!


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## TamarackLane

Alwaysbehind said:


> I am not sure I get why it matters that people who do not give him even the most basic care think he should remain a stallion.
> 
> His feet are a disaster. The rest of him does not scream stallion. Take this poor boy, get his feet done and geld him.


I agree with this. There is absolutely no good reason to keep him as a stallion.
Best of luck to you and him.


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## Elana

New_image said:


> Thank-you very much Elana, my thoughts as well.
> I have wondered about his eye site, his bone, his hoof walls etc and am with you. I feel he is worth it, he'll be a long project but being two he should "straiten out" with work and become a decent ride for someone. I am sure he'll need to be sedated for his feet to be trimmed, and then there is the question of WHO in my area can take on such a corrective trim.


No idea your area, but I used to trim my own horses. This boy is mostly showing over growth and dead wall.. so getting him trimmed and level with a shorter toe will do him wonders. Probably won't do it in one stop, but I bet in 4-8 weeks with 2 professional trims and you working with a rasp once a week in between his feet will be fine (assuming no founder and treatment for thrush/canker which he is likely to have). You will need to follow up and that will be the start of his training.. learning to trust you enough to handle his feet.

Good luck!


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## New_image

Thanks 
I do most of my own farrier work already. For anything "corrective" and outside of my comfort zone I have hauled horses to someone about an hour away.


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## Hunter65

wow poor little guy, this just breaks my heart. When I first adopted hunter he was a malnourished 15 month old with horrible feet. No where near as bad as this guy but who ever had been trimming him had done so bad he had no heel and his front legs were actually twisted. Thank goodness I found an awesome farrier and after about a year of corrective trims he straightened right out and now has great feet. So your lucky he is young and hopefully with proper hoof management he will have no lingering problems. Good luck with him and bless you for giving him a better life.


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## TrueColours

Just to give everyone some background on this colt (and New_image - I am SO glad to see him go to you!  ), the breeder and owner of this colt passed away about a year ago now. He was in his 60's and did 100% of the horse duties himself

When this colt was born, he had just undergone major surgery (hip replacement) and was bedridden a lot of the time. His daughter helped out as much as she could. His wife always had "0" to do with the horses and didnt participate at all after his surgery, nor did she help out after he passed away either. He was also in ailing health overall but too proud to admit it and slow down. It was nothing for him to put up 3000-4000 bales of hay by himself if he couldnt get anyone to help him

The daughter did the very best she could in managing her own home and family and coming over every day to tend to the needs of the horses, while grieving the loss of her father. She also got the word out on the horses and slowly, one by one, placed them. 

I know that she intended to keep this colt - she liked him a lot, but I believe she wasnt given that opportunity due to circumstances beyond her control and I believe what happened next was that without her there looking after the horse end of things, this colt was left in the care of the mother who - once again - had "0" interest, ability or desire to look after any of them let alone a young colt. Remember she was in her 60's as well, in poor health and probably never dealt with any of them let alone a young, rambunctious colt, so she simply left him in the stall until she could figure out what to do with him 

No excuses for any of this. It was simply a horrific set of circumstances and the horses did end up suffering through no fault of their own but I guess when you have someone in their 60's with no interest in the horses overnight being given the responsibility of looking after 20+ of them, a lot of things arent done correctly at all. The father adored these horses - they were his whole life and he did the best for them when he was living. In an instant he was gone through a freak accident, with no one to step up to the plate after him

I miss him terribly still. He was a wonderful man and a very dear friend ... he would have been terribly upset to see what life this colt had led before New_image got him

All the very very best with him


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## New_image

Thank-you for adding that Donna, I wasn't sure what family history or background I should offer so just opted not to say what farm he is at.
The daughter did have every intent on offering this little guy a good life and wanted very much to keep him. It is very sad for him how things ended up but it was certainly not intentional! Hopefully I can get him turned around, handled and eventually placed if not just keep him here myself. I have acquired several of this farms wonderful horses and also miss our dear friend.


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## Bellasmom

Looks like he would be a really cute gelding, and that would be the FIRST thing I would do with him. He'll be enough of a handful without adding hormones to the mix & there is nothing about him that is so special it needs to be bred on. Not trying to be a hater, I really do think he's a cute boy


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## CecilliaB

I think you have a real diamond in the rough, in a year of good feed, foot care and getting out to use his body I bet he will look AWESOME! 3-5 are my favorite developmental years in young horses  If he were mine I would also geld him, some much more involved with keeping and training a stallion. 

Hope you keep us posted!


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## AllegroAdante

Have you got him home yet? Any news?


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## smrobs

He looks like a cute little guy but I also don't see anything that screams "leave me a stud". I think if he were mine, the first stop would be the vet to have him gelded. Since he would be knocked out for that, I would trim his feet while he was down and kill 2 birds with 1 stone. The vet could also likely give you an idea about his knees/hocks while he was there so it would actually be 3 birds with one stone.


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## New_image

My vet giving soundness advice? :laugh: you over estimate near by vets! 

Update. He should be here today! And I have decided to take in another, so actually _two_ boys will be here today. 
I did go over to the farm last week and trim his hooves. Without sedation. He appears to be headed for a growth spurt so I did not take to much off from his toes, not to meantion I think this is something that should be done slowly. He is more comfortable and on the right track now. 

His owner has also agreed on the gelding, he will be gelded next month.

Will update when he arrives. I am excited to start working with him!


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## CecilliaB

Fantastic news. This is a big move for him and the other. I can't wait for updates


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## New_image

*Happy new year boys!*

Heres my new years eve party... 

Uncle Image loves that I brought him someone who likes to play...









And the second project -


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## Cacowgirl

So glad you are doing this for them! The first boy is a real cutie-glad he's going to be gelded-fighting the hormones along w/everything else is a big job. Is the "second project" from the same barn? Is there a sore at his elbow or just "dirt"? you have a lot of work w/that mane, but it sure is long! Can you tell us more about him?


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## CecilliaB

Want details on project #2! You have got to take before and after photos of this one for sure  Happy New Years!!


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## AllegroAdante

Wow, I can't wait to see them blossom under your care! Post new pics when you can. 

Do they have names?


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## Rascaholic

I think I am in love with that dirty thing called a horse in the second picture  Please post some afters of them both!!! I especially need after pics of horse#2 though, so I can get over this insane "OMG I love him" thing that just flashed through my head LOL


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## TrueColours

Here's a picture of Horse #2 from a few years ago










after a bubble bath and when he was shiny clean and "pink"! 










He's a really lovely stallion and a VERY talented jumper as well!

All the very best with him once again


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## New_image

Thanks everyone, I am excited to have them here. And I will keep the pictures coming.

The colt has already learned a lot. He has realized that he IS a baby and my other horses WILL kick his butt even threw the round pen. He is much more quiet, very sweet and we already nipped the biting thing in the bud. Great progress for a day I think. He is also accepting having the halter taken off and put back on (ears were a thing) and he was convinced to wear a blanket. It is suppose to be 15* for the next two days and he is outside for the first time. Surprisingly he saw things my way and accepted the blanket, patiently waited for all of the buckles and was a very good boy. Now if only fixing his feet were as easy for me as training..... 

The stallion did not settle in as nicely but I had a few discussions with him today then gave him a job (simply flexing and moving his shoulders), devoted an hour to trying to chisel some of the manur off from his coat and this evening he is more relaxed and finally eating. He contently munches his hay while I am in the stall with him but gets upset when I leave. We are in the process of getting another steal round pen set up for him, I hadn't really planned on him NOT staying in my wood or wire fences, so he is in a 15x25 stall until we can get him out. Yes, he is from the same farm and has also not been out (or groomed from the looks of it) in a number of years. I am keeping his name and the farm name out of this thread as I do not want anything to reflect badly on the farm or the horse himself so if you recognize him, mums the word! 

After the time I spent grooming with a metal curry today and the little-to-no progress it made with his mud it will be a while for his pretty pictures. He has little sores in some of the heavier spots of "dirt" and its nearly impossible to get off without balding him. Especially since it isn't particularly bath weather. But here is a photo of what he will look like in time,


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## New_image

You beat me to it! Thanks for posting these. PINK is a great term for him and I cannot wait for him to be pink again! Brown just isn't his color....


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## CecilliaB

WOW.....he is very unique. Sad to see the state he got into, but I bet he will be happy when he's all fresh and clean and able to move around


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## Sharpie

I look forward to following both their progress, and I am glad you took them. I think the colt looks like he'll grow up into a nice horse under your care.


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## TheMadHatter

I love the "Pink" stud  just becareful and keep an eye on him about equine melanoma.


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## smrobs

I can only imagine how hard it would be to keep the poor guy from staying sunburned in the summer time.


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## Golden Horse

Ironically a nice layer of thick mud would protect him from sunburn! I don't think I've ever seen such a pink horse:shock: Good luck with both your projects, I'm sure you will have great fun getting them both into shape.


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## TrueColours

I have perlino's, cremello's and smoky cream's here and they are all VERY pink and the funny thing is that none of them burn. Ever. Not on any part of their bodies, and if you go out on a really really hot day and pat them, the buckskin's / smoky blacks / bays are all hot to the touch, the double dilutes are cool as can be and just seem far more comfortable overall

The one thing I did notice with them is that the glare from the sun gets them more than any other horse especially in winter so even in winter on very bright days when there is snow on the ground, they will wear fly masks so they dont squint as much ...


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## AllegroAdante

Wow, he sure is a striking! What color is he? 

I understand that you don't want share the farm name/or registered names, but do they have barn names you can share?

Good luck with them both, I look forward to hearing about their progress.


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## New_image

He is maximally expressed sabino.

The babies name came Hippie  I am not sure how I feel about it so hes been "the baby" since he arrived.


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## Rascaholic

OH DANG! Those photos didn't help my growing obsession with horse #2. I think it just got a LOT worse. I hope you don't mind if I stalk these guys  He was and will be absolutely gorgeous! I can't wait for updated pictures after his bath, *sigh* in the spring LOL


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## Chansu

squeeee! i know #2!!!  i wouldnt have recognized him from the first photo though  my god.. how can anyone let such a gorgeous horse get in such a state? D: 


sooo excited to see pictures of him cleaned up


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## Ransomed

those feet....


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## New_image

I think we will have some good news and updated, cleaner, happier photos of the stallion next week. I have his mane dreads half worked out and we are moving him outside into a jump proof fence this weekend. Well, jump proof being a relative term. We shall see! 

In the mean time the baby is doing fantastic, adjusting well to the outdoors. His knees are already happier. I have done some work on his front feet, now working with his back legs so that he'll nicely comply to having his heels lowered. Still trying to find a farrier who can do corrective trims. Sigh. OH &... Registered name suggestions are welcome?


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## AllegroAdante

New_image said:


> . Registered name suggestions are welcome?


Did I read in the first post that his sire is Guaranteed Gold right? What is his dam's registered name? Are you wanting a name that incorporates sire/dam's name(s)? Or any particular theme?

He looks a lot better already and appears to be a big boy, how tall is he? Is he going to go grey?


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## AllegroAdante

Just off the top of my head ..since they called him Hippie

Guaranteed to be a Hipster
A Guaranteed Hipster
Age of Aquarius
Guaranteed to be Bohemian


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## TrueColours

> Is he going to go grey?


No - he cant!  The dam is bay and GG is cremello, so the only possibilities are single dilute colours - palomino, buckskin, smoky black, smoky brown. He has a lot of "sooty" in his coat, so he could well be a sooty buckskin or I am also leaning towards smoky brown since GG has thrown several of them already 

The dam was 15.2 but I think if she had had a better start in life, she may well have gone over 16hh. Another sad tale. The stallion was "leased" to an "individual" who forged a lot of documents and the rightful owner fought a long court battle to get the stallion put back into his name and as part of the legal settlement, got some of the babies that had been produced from "the individual". They were all in horrible shape when he picked them up, had not been fed properly, feet full of really bad thrush, feet not trimmed - the works. The dam of this colt was one of those youngsters. If she had been looked after properly, I think she would have achieved 16hh +, so genetically, this colt should have no problem getting to be that size ...

New image - he is looking so much better already! He has a beautiful shoulder on him and I think once the swelling comes down out of his joints and the angles are corrected on his feet and the tendons and ligaments have time to re-adjust to the new angles, he will be a beautiful mover as well! 

You're doing a wonderful job with him. You should be really proud of how far he's come in such a short space of time ...


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## AllegroAdante

TrueColours said:


> No - he cant!  The dam is bay and GG is cremello, so the only possibilities are single dilute colours - palomino, buckskin, smoky black, smoky brown. He has a lot of "sooty" in his coat, so he could well be a sooty buckskin or I am also leaning towards smoky brown since GG has thrown several of them already


Lol, ok thanks - I know absolutely nothing about color/color genetics!


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## CLaPorte432

I think he has a nice body. But nothing screams stallion material to me besides his rarer color, which btw, he looks buckskin to me, not smokey black. And his genetics say buckskin is possible between the sire/dam cross. DNA tested would tell you for sure. 

His legs are terrible. Period. Maybe with proper farrier work, they can do something to keep him sound in the future but no one that shows is going to breed to him because of those legs.

He looks to be in good health other then the obvious leg issue. Not underweight or anything. But I'm wondering if he's been receiving the correct vitamins and protein content for him. That could cause bone deformities in growing horses if he's not getting a proper diet.

What a shame. He could have been an expensive, sound, healthy, happy animal. And Guarenteed Gold's stud fee isn't cheap, why would people spend the money just to do that to a foal?


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## Sharpie

I think he looks better already too! More lively at least, now that he's got some fresh air. It sounds like he's coming around quickly with you handling him.


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## CLaPorte432

After reading through the whole thread, I understand a little better about what this guys been though. It's so unfortunate that no-one could step up for the husband and take care of these guys properly.

He looks a lot better in the round pen then he did in the first pictures posted! Happier. And I'm 100% positive he's a sooty buckskin.


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## NdAppy

He looks much better now than he did in the barn. I'm with GG's owner on this one. I am 100% sure that he is a smokey brown. Keep us updated with how he does.


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## CecilliaB

Registered name..."I'm so cute Cecillia is going to steal me!" AAAAAH!


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## TrueColours

> Registered name..."I'm so cute Cecillia is going to steal me!" AAAAAH!


There's gotta be a comedian in every group, doesnt there?! :lol:



> I'm with GG's owner on this one. I am 100% sure that he is a smokey brown.


After seeing SO many of them that GG has produced, I am really thinking he is one as well ...  Thats where I'd put my money anyhow ...



> And his genetics say buckskin is possible between the sire/dam cross. DNA tested would tell you for sure.


Correct. But with a bay mare and a cremello stallion, all dilute colours are possible . Pet DNA is the only lab currently doing the At test (for the brown gene) so if the At test wasnt done, and just Agouti and Red Factor, you might THINK he is buckskin based on the results of THOSE tests, but only by sending additional hair to PetDNA would you know if he was or wasnt smoky brown



> After reading through the whole thread, I understand a little better about what this guys been though


You have no idea ... it truly is one of those very unfortunate and heart breaking chain of events that occured. Certain family members very much DID step up to the plate and had the best interests of all of the horses absolutely front and center, but were overruled by others. It certainly wasnt through lack of trying or people not caring or turning their backs on them. At no time did this individual give up. It just simply took time to get them all out of there ...

I wish, in the end, that those who opposed what was trying to be done for the horses, stopped and remembered for just one minute, what the family member who passed away, spent their entire life doing and what had been accomplished in this breeding program and werent in such a damned hurry to throw it all away ... :-(


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## CLaPorte432

TrueColours said:


> I wish, in the end, that those who opposed what was trying to be done for the horses, stopped and remembered for just one minute, what the family member who passed away, spent their entire life doing and what had been accomplished in this breeding program and werent in such a damned hurry to throw it all away ... :-(


Well said. I believe what you just said, and the welfare of the horses should have over-ruled some peoples stupidity. HeHeHe. Glad to see them in new homes though.


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## Kimmylikestojump

Gilded Hippy.


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## New_image

Thank you for your input and support!



> I wish, in the end, that those who opposed what was trying to be done for the horses, stopped and remembered for just one minute, what the family member who passed away, spent their entire life doing and what had been accomplished in this breeding program and werent in such a damned hurry to throw it all away ...


Well said. It was all very heartbreaking and I am sure we cannot even begin to know how the horses current care taker had felt threw all of this. 

Do you have any pictures of GG's smokey brown foals? I was a bit skeptic of his color from the get go but I've honestly never met a smokey black horse to say. That and he has always been in the back corner of a barn, who could tell! But after I brushed him and while taking these pictures I JUST told my husband he looked very sooty buckskin. You are betting smokey brown though? Whatever it is hes very handsome and I love the color. He looks like a wild rabbit color 

CLaPorte432 - I couldn't agree more. His legs and feet are a complete train wreck. I know it was hard for her but I tried to convince her to let me take him over here when he was six months old. She'd wanted to keep him and tried but in the end the stall did not do him any favors. I hope he turns into a stunning little show gelding for someone. If all else fails he has a home here.

He is currently 15.1hh. His knee to coronet measures 16 1/2" so I am expecting him to mature around the size of his brother here. His dam is 15.3 like Donna said.

Name wise his dams registered name is Jinx. I wouldn't mind keeping sire/dam names in his name or just some new one or two word name, something unusual. So far I've just come up with Hijinx or Guaranteed Hijinx.


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## CLaPorte432

LOVE Hijinx!


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## TrueColours

With the dam's name, Ive always thought of the James Bond connection.  You know Jinx - played first by Ursula Andress and then by Halle Berry? Wonder if you could pull from that direction for a name?

Or - do you go with something like "Jinxed" which is very fitting in his case. Unfortunately ...

I'll get the pictures of the smoky browns posted later on today. Remember as with bays and chestnuts, and palomino's and buckskins - the smoky browns run the full gamut from light to dark tones as well ...


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## sierrams1123

I CAN NOT BELIEVE THIS PERSON IS BEING ALLOWED TO CONTINUE TO BREED/OWN ANY HORSES!!! 
Why have you not reported this person?
Yes his horses may still be living but in those conditions I am surprised! Not to start an uproar about slaughter or anything, but it is horse owners/breeders like this person who fuel it all.


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## AllegroAdante

I like Guaranteed Hijinx! Very cute


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## crimsonsky

wow what a change. love seeing the updates.


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## TrueColours

> I CAN NOT BELIEVE THIS PERSON IS BEING ALLOWED TO CONTINUE TO BREED/OWN ANY HORSES!!


You need to read what I have posted

The breeder had hip replacement surgery when this colt was born. Wasnt planned that way at all, but thats just how things went.

He then passed away suddenly in a freak accident

His wife, in her 60's and in ill health for many years, NEVER did a thing with the horses. Not a single thing, so now - all of a sudden - overnight - she is now mourning the loss of her husband, has a ton of work to do to put closure on his passing, has a farm to run full time and about 30 horses to look after on her own including this young colt, a couple of stallions and a bunch of youngsters and mares. And winter is setting in.

One family member came to the table and started to assist in putting all of his affairs in order and looking after the horses but this family member had her own family and home to also look after and again - overnight - she was mourning the loss of her father, and looking after the horses and farm full time

Unless you have walked a mile in the shoes of the individuals involved, sometimes it is very easy to sit on the side and pass judgement and criticism when you dont even know 1% of what actually went on 

What the family member battled every single day in regards to the horses and their well being, when she was overruled every step of the way by the other family members, speaks volumes about her tenacity and her desire to do the right thing for all of them. In honor of her father and what he had spent his life creating and developing and also for the sake of the horses. 

Dont worry. He isnt breeding anything anymore. He passed away ... remember ... ?! :-(


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## Cacowgirl

I see a lot of comments on many threads where folks are just answering w/out having read all the facts. It's a part of human nature, & sometimes they have read all the comments, but not everything remains in the brain. I think it's good to restate the facts every once in awhile, so there is a chance they do get read before someone just "let's loose". I'm glad you have the horses & they are starting to live more like a horse should. Hat's off to you. Hope you keep us updated.


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## HAFWalkers

I would trim his hooves, but do it gradually and with the proper feed and maybe some supplements he should be ok. but you dont want to trim his hooves to fast all at once, since he is so used to walking with them long, and u dont want him to bleed, just do it gradually.


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## TrueColours

> I would trim his hooves, but do it gradually


I think that is very much the key here and one that New image is very much aware of. Not only for the sake of the feet, but his entire body - muscles, tendons and ligaments included - that need to get used to the new angles and new stresses placed in areas that didnt have those stresses before with the feet the way they were

I think another 6-8 months of good corrective trimming, turnout and care, will make a world of difference with this young colt ...


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## feistymomma

2 gorgeous horses!!! The little guys feet looked so much better after you trimmed them. I think they will both thrive in your care and you can transform them into fantastic horses..... it reminds me of a song........all you need is love!!!!


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## New_image

^ Thankyou. 

Yes, we are trimming his feet every so gradually. And so far most has been done just by rasping. I would feel much more comfortable with a farrier who is good with corrective trims. I got ahold of one guy and he is not comfortable with trimming less handled horses. My regular farrier does a great job but has three young girls and also limits herself to horses who stand perfectly still. So thus far I am trimming his fronts and working on getting the back feet up for more than a few seconds at a time. 

We will get there. He already moves so much differently than when he came. He figured out how to get a few strides of canter in despite the smaller pen. At first he almost "hopped" when he figured out there was a gear past trot. Now hes got this whole canter thing down and thinks pretty highly of himself for it.


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## sierrams1123

TrueColours said:


> You need to read what I have posted
> 
> The breeder had hip replacement surgery when this colt was born. Wasnt planned that way at all, but thats just how things went.
> 
> He then passed away suddenly in a freak accident
> 
> His wife, in her 60's and in ill health for many years, NEVER did a thing with the horses. Not a single thing, so now - all of a sudden - overnight - she is now mourning the loss of her husband, has a ton of work to do to put closure on his passing, has a farm to run full time and about 30 horses to look after on her own including this young colt, a couple of stallions and a bunch of youngsters and mares. And winter is setting in.
> 
> One family member came to the table and started to assist in putting all of his affairs in order and looking after the horses but this family member had her own family and home to also look after and again - overnight - she was mourning the loss of her father, and looking after the horses and farm full time
> 
> Unless you have walked a mile in the shoes of the individuals involved, sometimes it is very easy to sit on the side and pass judgement and criticism when you dont even know 1% of what actually went on
> 
> What the family member battled every single day in regards to the horses and their well being, when she was overruled every step of the way by the other family members, speaks volumes about her tenacity and her desire to do the right thing for all of them. In honor of her father and what he had spent his life creating and developing and also for the sake of the horses.
> 
> Dont worry. He isnt breeding anything anymore. He passed away ... remember ... ?! :-(




I will say that maybe I jumped the gun I did make my comment without reading through all of the comments, I only read the first post by the OP.

I also think any responsible horse owner sets things up before they pass.

I know I have made plans for the care of my horses if something were to ever happen to me, and most people do this. I will still fault the owners of these horses, no matter the situation it is THEIR fault!


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## Hunter65

I wish I could send you my farrier she would fix him up


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## sierrams1123

After going through some of the previous post/comments I wanted to add this. 




New_image said:


> Smokey Black Thoroughbred. Coming two year old. By Guaranteed Gold out of one of our Puchilingui daughters (born prior to our purchasing the mare). *This was her first colt*. His owner offered him to me but feels he should be kept a stallion.
> *The colt has never been outside of his stall.* He was stunning as a foal but has gone down hill since, he actually looks much better here than the last time I saw him about six months ago.
> 
> He needs a *lot* of work (*Needs to accept being touched, handled, learn to lead, tie, he has never seen a farrier, learn to not bite, not kick people and as stated he hasn't even seen the outdoors*... ohh yippy, all I can say is I hope he inherited his sires disposition!)


Here ^^^ new image states that this horse is almost 2 yrs old.
She also stated in those almost 2 yrs he has never been out of his stall nor had he ever seen a farrier.
She also states she owns his mother whom had this colt before she purchased her, so in stating this makes me think she was aware of the horses well beings when she purchased his mother. I will give her the benefit of a doubt that things were not as bad when she purchased the mother, but if they were then shame on her for not trying to do something about it.
She also states that the little guy is going to need to accept being touched, handled, being lead, being tied, being trimmed, learn not to bite or kick, and accept being outside. (I will come back to this point in a min.)



New_image said:


> I have a couple of mares from the same farm, one is his dam. *She was outside with minimal handling but has come around nicely*. The other is *her half sister who was in a stall until I picked her up (age 5)* and she appears _cow hocked from how her feet were left to grow as a baby and has the same swollen knees_. She was in this stall longer, obviously, until five but the knees haven't gone down and she just grew a bit crooked which _at this point cannot be fixed_.



Here ^^^ she talk about the little guys mother that she owns again, stating that she was outside with little handling. She also says she owns her mares half sister, who she purchased when the half sister was 5. This 2nd mare she refers to was also in a stall for her whole life, until age 5. This same mare was visibly in bad shape and she was aware of this horses well being and yet still did not do anything about it! (I will also come back to this point)







TrueColours said:


> Just to give everyone some background on this colt (and New_image - I am SO glad to see him go to you!  ), the breeder and owner of this colt passed away about *a year ago now*. He was in his 60's and did 100% of the horse duties himself
> 
> *When this colt was born, he had just undergone major surgery (hip replacement) and was bedridden a lot of the time*. His daughter helped out as much as she could. His wife always had "0" to do with the horses and didnt participate at all after his surgery, nor did she help out after he passed away either. *He was also in ailing health overall but too proud to admit it and slow down*. It was nothing for him to put up 3000-4000 bales of hay by himself if he couldnt get anyone to help him
> 
> The daughter did the very best she could in managing her own home and family and coming over every day to tend to the needs of the horses, while grieving the loss of her father. *She also got the word out on the horses and slowly, one by one, placed them.
> *
> I know that she intended to keep this colt - she liked him a lot, but I believe she wasnt given that opportunity due to circumstances beyond her control and I believe what happened next was that without her there looking after the horse end of things, this colt was left in the care of the mother who - once again - had "0" interest, ability or desire to look after any of them let alone a young colt. Remember she was in her 60's as well, in poor health and probably never dealt with any of them let alone a young, rambunctious colt, so she simply left him in the stall until she could figure out what to do with him
> 
> No excuses for any of this. It was simply a horrific set of circumstances and the horses did end up suffering through no fault of their own but I guess when you have someone in their 60's with no interest in the horses overnight being given the responsibility of looking after 20+ of them, a lot of things arent done correctly at all. *The father adored these horses - they were his whole life and he did the best for them when he was living. *_In an instant he was gone through a freak accident, with no one to step up to the plate after him_
> 
> _*I miss him terribly still. He was a wonderful man and a very dear friend ... he would have been terribly upset to see what life this colt had led*_ before New_image got him
> 
> All the very very best with him



Here ^^^ True Colours gives a background of this little guy.
She states the his original owner (whom also owned both mare New Image refers to in her previous post) past away a year ago now. She also states that at the time this horse was born the original owner had just had hip surgery, that kept him bedridden a lot of the time, and that even before he was not in the best of health. Obviously he was still the main care giver when the mares New Image refers to were on his property. Meaning he was aware the one mare was not being handle much, basically left outside to be wild, while another mare was locked in a stall 24/7, basically rotting away. If he "adored" these horses as much as you claim why would he allow them to live like this? There are 1,000s of horse lovers/adorers out there that want/have horses but only a handful of them are actually decent caregivers and very few are good horse owners.

She also states he was to proud to admit her could no longer handle everything or slow down but yet she did nothing to help the situation and if she did nothing that worked.

She also states about how the daughter tried to help. She says the daughter got word out and slowly re homed them, this I would like to applaud. It is very hard to re home horses, especially horses in poor health/condition even harder when you have so many horses.

She then goes on to say the daughter really liked this colt and that she planned to keep him but things beyond her control prevented this from happening. From this comment I get confused, why if she cared so much for this colt did she not do anything, she did not even let him out of his stall for heavens sake.



Again I have to point out, if he cared so much for these horses why would he not have set something up for them in case something happened to him. If he was in bad health I am sure he was aware so there is no way he could not have thought something could happen to me and then who would care for them? I mean I am sure he was also aware is wife had 0 interest in them so he could not have thought she would be able to care for them when she in no way cared for them while he was living. I still point my finger at him.

Also, I understand his family was dealing with a loss, I am not heartless to think that in no way should a loss of a father or husband would keep you from care for an animal because I know if I loss either it would be hard for me to even get out of the bed to care for myself. I also know when to ask for help and I know when I can not handle it anymore. In this day and time I know there are 1,000s of organizations that would have stepped in. So again I point the finger at them and anyone who was aware of what was going on.









New_image said:


> *The daughter did have every intent on offering this little guy a good life and wanted very much to keep him. It is very sad for him how things ended up but it was certainly not intentional! Hopefully I can get him turned around, handled and eventually placed if not just keep him here myself. I have acquired several of this farms wonderful horses and also miss our dear friend.*



I touched on this ^^^^ above.





TrueColours said:


> You need to read what I have posted
> 
> *The breeder had hip replacement surgery when this colt was born*. Wasnt planned that way at all, but thats just how things went.
> 
> He then passed away suddenly in a freak accident
> 
> His wife, in her 60's and in ill health for many years, NEVER did a thing with the horses. Not a single thing, so now - all of a sudden - overnight - she is now mourning the loss of her husband, has a ton of work to do to put closure on his passing, has a farm to run full time and about 30 horses to look after on her own including this young colt, a couple of stallions and a bunch of youngsters and mares. And winter is setting in.
> 
> One family member came to the table and started to assist in putting all of his affairs in order and looking after the horses but this family member had her own family and home to also look after and again - overnight - she was mourning the loss of her father, and looking after the horses and farm full time
> 
> _*Unless you have walked a mile in the shoes of the individuals involved, sometimes it is very easy to sit on the side and pass judgement and criticism when you dont even know 1% of what actually went on
> *_
> What the family member battled every single day in regards to the horses and their well being, when she was overruled every step of the way by the other family members, speaks volumes about her tenacity and her desire to do the right thing for all of them. In honor of her father and what he had spent his life creating and developing and also for the sake of the horses.
> 
> Dont worry. He isnt breeding anything anymore. He passed away ... remember ... ?! :-(



Here ^^^^ I would like to say again the time line does not match up to the state of all the horses, this one colt in bad shape and left in a stall all of his life I could almost understand/accept due to the owner under going surgery and then sadly passing away but it was not just this one colt, it was others before him as well.

I will also add that True Colours is correct, all I can do it sit on the side lines and take in what I am reading, what information is being given to me. I was not there and I do not know everything that went on or played a part in what happened, but I can say from the information given to me by True Colours and New Image I do not retract my original post. I also can not believe nothing was done by these two people who claim to know so much and that the original owner was such a dear friend.

NO WAY IN HELL WOULD I ALLOW FOR MY DEAR FRIENDS HORSES TO END UP THE WAY THEY HAVE!!!!!


I am sorry if this offends anyone but this is just how I feel, in my honest opinion.



p.s. To New Image I also would like to applaud you for stepping up now and taking on the care of the horses from this situation that you have. He is looking great and I wish you all the luck!


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## New_image

I have heard that the farm ran beautifully back when the original owner was younger and all of the kids were involved. I am sure Donna knows better than I. I have only known the farm personally since 2004 so I cannot judge how anything was done previously. Back when I met them in 2004 I thought the owner needed to down size and/or hire in help. He had way to much on his plate and while he loved his horses they were not taken care of how I personally would have liked. This said, there are many horses not cared for how I would personally like and there is little to nothing that you or I can do about this. 

BUT these horses have *always* had food, clean water and basic care. The outdoor horses never came in and the indoor horses never went out. If this family so chose to have twenty brood mares in a pasture that were not often handled, never taken out to be ridden and not otherwise "used" but they were fed, watered and healthy then this is not neglect nor abuse its just not the most ideal. The colts dam that I have here was one of those. She required a lot of work, because she was only asked to accept human contact the twice yearly her hooves were trimmed she wasn't well mannered. And as Donna mentioned her early life was shabby.The second mare mare that I have (and a third who came with her and has been re-homed) had never come out of a stall and I have no good reason for why not. This is a good question! 
The rest of the indoor horses were stallions. Yes, ideally the stallions in the barn should have had individual runs or some sort of turn out as well. Again, as I've mentioned I think the owner had more horses than room, energy or time but everyone was fed. When he was around the stallions were always groomed and the stalls cleaned. The stallion that I have here NEVER looked like he does right now. The daughter was the only one to step up to bat for the horses as said and some horses lost weight, they hadn't been groomed, she couldn't afford farrier work or bedding for stalls and so fourth.. (If someone passed away would you financially be able to carry 30+ horses?!) but she slowly placed them in the best homes that she could while dealing with the passing of her father, her mothers failing health, her own children and her marriage as well as running her home and taking care of the handful of horses that she already owned. 

Again, the owner passed away in a freak accident _not_ due to failing health. I am not sure that he could have for seen the lack of care when it came to the horses. I personally have nothing set up for what happens to my horses should I tumble off from a training project crack my head and pass away. My husband would be clueless and without knowledge of the computer and where to list them I am sure he'd try to find someone by word of mouth and slowly disperse them as did this guys daughter. 

I will not argue with you there are things the original owned could have done different but the truth is that not all large breeding farms are as fancy and glorious as you may imagine. None of this is relevant any more because as Donna said "Dont worry. He isnt breeding anything anymore. He passed away ... remember ... ?! :-("

This is why I was hesitant to bring up any of the specifics, only offering some details to get opinions on the colt. I do not agree with the way this farm has done things in the past but it isn't my business and certainly not my intent to make them look bad. I have simply offered the daughter a hand in placing a handful of horses and hope to help her get everything back on track. I am glad that she has given me the chance to work with some of these outstanding creatures and that she made the painful decision to disperse the herd.


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## Endiku

I've been lurking this thread since it started, but just had to step in today. Looking at those first pictures of him, I was skeptical that he'd even make a good gelding, but seeing his progress and the round pen pictures of him....phenominal! I wouldn't of believed he's the same horse. He looks so happy and just being allowed to move around has already done him a world of good. I can't wait to see after his hooves have been done and he's standing correctly. I actually see a lot of potential. Not for a stallion- mind you, but there is a _lot_ to like about him. How about sending him to me? ;D any GG baby is good in my books!

So glad that you guys were able to step in and help the poor 'little' guy out. He definately deserves it. What an unfortunate situation he and the stud got thrown into. I can't help but feel sorry for his previouse owner though, it really does sound like he wanted what was best for his animals.

I'm looking forewards to many updates! And I just love the idea of 'Jinx'


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## sierrams1123

New_image said:


> I have heard that the farm ran beautifully back when the original owner was younger and all of the kids were involved. I am sure Donna knows better than I. I have only known the farm personally since 2004 so I cannot judge how anything was done previously. Back when I met them in 2004 I thought the owner needed to down size and/or hire in help. He had way to much on his plate and while he loved his horses they were not taken care of how I personally would have liked. This said, there are many horses not cared for how I would personally like and there is little to nothing that you or I can do about this.
> 
> BUT these horses have *always* had food, clean water and basic care. The outdoor horses never came in and the indoor horses never went out. If this family so chose to have twenty brood mares in a pasture that were not often handled, never taken out to be ridden and not otherwise "used" but they were fed, watered and healthy then this is not neglect nor abuse its just not the most ideal. The colts dam that I have here was one of those. She required a lot of work, because she was only asked to accept human contact the twice yearly her hooves were trimmed she wasn't well mannered. And as Donna mentioned her early life was shabby.The second mare mare that I have (and a third who came with her and has been re-homed) had never come out of a stall and I have no good reason for why not. This is a good question!
> The rest of the indoor horses were stallions. Yes, ideally the stallions in the barn should have had individual runs or some sort of turn out as well. Again, as I've mentioned I think the owner had more horses than room, energy or time but everyone was fed. When he was around the stallions were always groomed and the stalls cleaned. The stallion that I have here NEVER looked like he does right now. The daughter was the only one to step up to bat for the horses as said and some horses lost weight, they hadn't been groomed, she couldn't afford farrier work or bedding for stalls and so fourth.. (If someone passed away would you financially be able to carry 30+ horses?!) but she slowly placed them in the best homes that she could while dealing with the passing of her father, her mothers failing health, her own children and her marriage as well as running her home and taking care of the handful of horses that she already owned.
> 
> Again, the owner passed away in a freak accident _not_ due to failing health. I am not sure that he could have for seen the lack of care when it came to the horses. I personally have nothing set up for what happens to my horses should I tumble off from a training project crack my head and pass away. My husband would be clueless and without knowledge of the computer and where to list them I am sure he'd try to find someone by word of mouth and slowly disperse them as did this guys daughter.
> 
> I will not argue with you there are things the original owned could have done different but the truth is that not all large breeding farms are as fancy and glorious as you may imagine. None of this is relevant any more because as Donna said "Dont worry. He isnt breeding anything anymore. He passed away ... remember ... ?! :-("
> 
> This is why I was hesitant to bring up any of the specifics, only offering some details to get opinions on the colt. I do not agree with the way this farm has done things in the past but it isn't my business and certainly not my intent to make them look bad. I have simply offered the daughter a hand in placing a handful of horses and hope to help her get everything back on track. I am glad that she has given me the chance to work with some of these outstanding creatures and that she made the painful decision to disperse the herd.




Although I see your point and agree with a lot of things you have stated I still want to repeat what I said earlier about knowing when enough was enough and when to ask for help. I am not trying to bad mouth the dead or this farm, even if it may seem that I am.

I applaud his daughter for trying to help and finding new homes for as many as she can, I also applaud you for taking in some of the horses. It just kills me when I hear of horses in such conditions. I have never heard of horses being stalled 24/7 and no matter the reasoning its not okay.

Like I said before I understand it was hard for them to deal with what they were left to deal with after their father/husband past away, because if I lost either it would be hard for me to care for myself. I also believe any responsible horse owner HAS or SHOULD HAVE a back up plan for if anything were to happen to them what would happen to their horses. Like I said I have a plan, everyone I know knows what I want to happen to my horses when/if something happens to me.

I also understood that he did not pass away due to his health issues, I was saying that with his standing condition I can not believe he did not think what if.
I also recommend that you should talk to the people, that your horses care would fall back on if something were to happen to you, about what you want them to do with your horses.
I don't know about everyone else I can only speak for myself but my horses are like my children. Luckily the law covers what happens to you children (if under age 18) after you die, sadly your horse depend on you!

I guess that is really the point I am trying to make, that we as horse people need to be more responsible and we should also hold other horse owners accountable for their actions.
The other point I was trying to make is that we as horse owners should get more involved and be willing to give one another a helping hand instead of standing on the side lines. 

I am not saying you have or have not done this.

Also, in my opinion, what happened to these horses was neglect and abuse, maybe not intentional but it still happened at the hands of whom evers care they were under at the time. And its sad to know that there were other aware of what was going on and did nothing about it.


p.s. this this comment "not all large breeding farms are as fancy and glorious as you may imagine" I do not think all breeding farms are fancy and glorious I am aware of real life!


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## mystykat

Wow, you've done such a great job with him so far. Looking forward to hearing more updates! 

Also it's kind of depressing that this good deed has turned into a debate.


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## New_image

Here are some happier photos, the mane is free! Six hours of brushing and a bottle of MTG later. Sadly the length was mostly dead hair but on the plus side I didn't have to cut it. 

















Baby really enjoyed his first walk outside! He was interested in the snow, grass, trees, stump, horse trailer, fences......


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## paintluver

They are both such gorgeous boys!


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## Rascaholic

I'll just say I love them both and I honestly hope life gives them the contentment and care they deserve from now on. That baby is looking awesome and New Situation is a suitable name for him  
As for Mr Studly, I like him better with every pic you post  I have other names to suggest, but it's late and will wait til tomorrow. (Insomnia stinks LOL)


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## MangoRoX87

I am in love with that colt, he is such a cutie. Glad they are both doing so much better

It's pretty sad that this has turned into a debate.
Things happen. Maybe he DID have a plan and it was never expressed.
When my grandpa passed away, my dad was supposes to be the executor of the estate. Guess who is selling all of my grandpa's things? Not my dad. Not my uncle. The step aunt. Freaking troll *cussing rant to self*


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## Cacowgirl

Both horses look so much better & happier,glad they are in a much better place now. & yes, we may make plans for after we are gone, but sometimes things happen & they aren't followed. All we can do is try & let as many people know as we can while we can still be heard. Good luck to you.


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## ptvintage

Very nice progress with these horses! They look so much better!

sierrams, when I was reading through your posts, I really had no idea what point you were making. Yes, it's a sad that these horses ended up like this. To me, it sounds like people did try to care for these horses, but were overwhelmed. That's a lot of horses to care for, especially if the person didn't even like horses. It's a lesson to all of us that we should plan for our dependents' cares after we pass, knowing that we cannot place that responsibility on the unwilling. Other than that, what is there to say? 

It's unfortunate that a "call to arms" wasn't sent out across the internet to place the horses faster. Are there still horses that need homes at this farm?

OP- I hope that everything continues to go well with these two. They are beautiful!


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## New_image

*It's unfortunate that a "call to arms" wasn't sent out across the internet to place the horses faster. Are there still horses that need homes at this farm?*

There is one APHA stallion (who should be gelded/the owner is saving up to have gelded) left in the barn and five or six older or un-sound brood mares that are being taken care of over at her farm. Really the only one who needs a home asap is the last stallion, however I have absolutely no room for a fourth stallion. Now that he is the last horse on the farm she will be making a small 6 panel "pen" off from a stall so that he can at least step outside. I told her if he is still around in the summer when this colt is gelded and after my foals are born, I will take him. I bet he is very lonely over there


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## New_image

Update in the pictures section


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## Allison Finch

What nice projects you have. I am glad they are now in a good loving environment. Are you considering gelding the second horse? I think he would also be a good gelding, personally.


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