# How do you show your horse your 'boss'?



## SydLovesJackers

My horse seems to think he can take advantage of me, and he thinks that he is the boss not me. So how do you show your horse, your boss? 
(Note : I don't have an arena  )


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## justsambam08

Grab a lunge line and a lunge whip, and work the crap out of him. Lots of changing directions and lots of changing gaits....when you control his feet, you control the horse. 

Also work on ground work. If he gets pushy while walking on a lead rope, throw your elbow into his shoulder to get him to move over and remind him its your space. If he starts walking into you (say you're standing in front of him) back him up, and if he won't back up on cue, MAKE him do so....use very "big" body language (square shoulders, stand tall, be deliberate in where you're stepping) and get into his space, swing your lead rope at his chest, wave your hands, whatever it takes for him to move. Don't let him rub his head on you, swing his butt at you, or pin his ears when you try to touch him. Work on yielding his hindquarters and forequarters away from you, as well as side passing.

Those are just the basics. Giving us more info will help us get more specific


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## CloudsMystique

All you have to do is force him to do something. It can be as easy as walking him in a tight circle or as difficult as lunging him for a half an hour. It depends on how much convincing he needs... but making him do something you want him to do will take care of it 90% of the time.


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## SydLovesJackers

I do lunge him for about 10 minutes before I ride, but when I get on and start riding to a certain area, he starts backing up to try to turn around to go back to the barn. Also, when I am cantering or trotting him, he canters/trots sideways and I have to pull his head around to make him go back to the area. This is very irritating to do every 5-10 minutes. I can't enjoy my ride when he is doing this


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## Marecare

I don't boss anything.
I suggest and lead.
I teach and help.
I spend time with them and build trust.
I listen.


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## justsambam08

SydLovesJackers said:


> I do lunge him for about 10 minutes before I ride, but when I get on and start riding to a certain area, he starts backing up to try to turn around to go back to the barn. Also, when I am cantering or trotting him, he canters/trots sideways and I have to pull his head around to make him go back to the area. This is very irritating to do every 5-10 minutes. I can't enjoy my ride when he is doing this


So he's gate/barn sour?


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## twogeldings

I had pretty much the same problems you do with my 10 year old. Honestly, I just got tired of it, ditched the 'lunge/groundwork/start-from-the-beginning' method, got on and rode him like the devil for a good hour or so. I cantered, galloped, chased him up down and under everything. No begging, no pleading, just flat out ride-'em-till-they-lick. Keep it changing constantly, get your adrenaline up, scream, holler, and yell. Be the alpha! 


Before:
Refused, herd sour, barn sour, reared, bucked, cowhopped, went every which way, ignored commands, etc.

After:
Listened. Obeyed leads. Eager and willing to go out and let out those long legs. Happy. Riding finally enjoyable again.


Sometimes, you gotta ditch the plead-and-beg. Sometimes you just gotta take your boot and stick it right in his behind.


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## PaytonSidesHorsemanship

I like to put things simply, so that's what I'll do. Make your horse be the one to move their feet and not you. The horse that is above the other in the pasture is the one that can make the other one move. Use this same idea when trying to build a leadership role. One key to remember when you apply pressure, make it non-emotional and very business like with very quick release timing. But not too quick to where you fail to follow through. And yes you do need to be "boss". Why some people try to make that term negative I don't know but it is wrong to do so. A good boss has leadership skills, a plan, and a system and process for becoming successful and helping his employees to become successful, because if his employees succeed, he succeeds. What is so negative about that?


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## justsambam08

^^Thats what I was going to suggest if its just an issue of being sour, just ride them no-nonsense like twogeldings said. My guy was HORRIBLY gate sour, so I just started paying attention to where in the arena and along the rails he started to fight....I'd re-cue him as a reminder "hey, i'm not done yet" and keep on working him.


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## BuckOff41570

Marecare said:


> I don't boss anything.
> I suggest and lead.
> I teach and help.
> I spend time with them and build trust.
> I listen.


let me guess... parelli.


OP- I agree with PaytonSidesHorsemanship. Think about how horses communicate naturally and build off of that.


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## Marecare

BuckOff41570 said:


> let me guess... parelli.
> 
> 
> OP- I agree with PaytonSidesHorsemanship. Think about how horses communicate naturally and build off of that.



Not in your wildest dreams!
I do not work with the Parelli program at all.
I like to ride too much.


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## mbender

As alot of you say, "leadership". Very important. This horse sounds to me like he doesnt trust your judgement. Very important also is trust. I have learned that when you have a "barn sour, buddy sour, gate sour" horse, work that animal around the area he/she wants to be. If you work them in or around the area they want to be and then take them away from that area for a "rest", they learn that the area they thought was "safe and relaxing" isnt anymore. I had to do this with my mare when I first started riding her. If your horse is in your space or over crowding you, make it an uncomfortable space so they will learn to trust themselves (confidence). Backing them up if they get to close is a great idea. Only when you say its ok to be in your space are they to be allowed in. I do or would use a crop or stick as an extension of my arm for extra help. This is not a tool to be misused. It would be as if I were the dominant horse and if the other horse got to close, I would bite... hence the crop. Not repeated, just one good clip. As for the side stepping when he trots/canters, start working him with leg pressure. If he side steps to the left, use leg pressure to the right and vice a versa. But this will take time for him to get used to if he doesnt know leg pressure. Do it while walking/standing. A little pressure and as soon as he moves away from it reward it with no pressure. Eventually, when you are able to trot/canter you can use this to help guide his body straight. I hope this helps.


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## Spyder

BuckOff41570 said:


> *Originally Posted by Marecare ***
> _*I don't boss anything.
> I suggest and lead.
> I teach and help.
> I spend time with them and build trust.
> I listen.*_
> 
> 
> let me guess... parelli.
> 
> 
> OP- I agree with PaytonSidesHorsemanship. Think about how horses communicate naturally and build off of that.


Marecare is right. Parelli is NOT the only technique that will use non force to achieve something.

I do much like marecare

Unless you have a very dumb horse (and there are some out there) then anticipating what the horse will do (assuming you listened to him/her during previous riding sessions) and blocking that behaviour usually works very well.


I know what my horse is going to do by just a change in ear position, or a slight attempt to put any part of his body where I don't want it. He gets a " ah ah" warning first to let him know that I know what he is going to do. He then has the option of behaving or suffer the consequences.

Over time obedience has simply been the easier course and horses are nortorious for taking the easier course when allowed to.

Physical force is not necessary when you can mentally overpower them with anticipation and fair corrections.


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## kevinshorses

Marecare said:


> I do not work with the Parelli program at all.
> I like to ride too much.


I laughed when I read that. 


If you set your horse up to succeed then there will be no need to show it who's boss. If you prepare your horse to respond to your feel and you learn to read your horses fell then you can head off the bad behavior before it ever gets a start. Real confidence is what horses respond to and no amount of lunging or false bravado is going to substitute for it.


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## Marecare

Spyder said:


> Marecare is right. Parelli is NOT the only technique that will use non force to achieve something.
> 
> I do much like marecare
> 
> Unless you have a very dumb horse (and there are some out there) then anticipating what the horse will do (assuming you listened to him/her during previous riding sessions) and blocking that behaviour usually works very well.
> 
> 
> I know what my horse is going to do by just a change in ear position, or a slight attempt to put any part of his body where I don't want it. He gets a " ah ah" warning first to let him know that I know what he is going to do. He then has the option of behaving or suffer the consequences.
> 
> Over time obedience has simply been the easier course and horses are nortorious for taking the easier course when allowed to.
> 
> Physical force is not necessary when you can mentally overpower them with anticipation and fair corrections.



Ohhh,
I like this so much that I just want to see it again!
Such good words Spyder.


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## ReiningTrainer

There is also the problem of focus. You need to stay focused on what you are asking the horse to do at any given moment and not change for anything, not even the barn burning down. Change your focus and you change your body. Change your body and you change your cue. At a clinic if a person says, "My horse keeps going to the gate." I reply, "What gate?" You need to get so focused you see nothing around you and nothing around you distracts you. 

When you give 100% of your focus to the request at hand you will become consistent. When you become consistent you horse will become responsive. 

So the horse goes where you don't want, counter move, be the leader by initiating the movement as was stated above, but stay focused. If he goes backward, back him through a shoulder and don't release until he does. He goes left, pick up and take the right shoulder, not the nose to the right. Be specific and stay with it until he does it.

Also, don't go in thinking, 'we'll just walk around,' go in there and do serpentine work, cone patterns, anything that forces you to focus on what you want him to do. As stated above, work him, but work his mind not just his body.


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## Walkamile

ReiningTrainer said:


> There is also the problem of focus. You need to stay focused on what you are asking the horse to do at any given moment and not change for anything, not even the barn burning down. Change your focus and you change your body. Change your body and you change your cue. At a clinic if a person says, "My horse keeps going to the gate." I reply, "What gate?" You need to get so focused you see nothing around you and nothing around you distracts you.
> 
> *When you give 100% of your focus to the request at hand you will become consistent. When you become consistent you horse will become responsive*.
> 
> So the horse goes where you don't want, counter move, be the leader by initiating the movement as was stated above, but stay focused. If he goes backward, back him through a shoulder and don't release until he does. He goes left, pick up and take the right shoulder, not the nose to the right. Be specific and stay with it until he does it.
> 
> Also, don't go in thinking, 'we'll just walk around,' go in there and do serpentine work, cone patterns, anything that forces you to focus on what you want him to do. As stated above, *work him, but work his mind not just his body.*




Well said. If we are inconsistent as leaders we are ineffective. My horses have learned what to expect because I am very consistent with everything I do. The few times I have had problems, and they were pretty minor, was because my focus was not totally on what we were working on. Couldn't blame the horse, she/he saw an opportunity to quit working because my focus/energy was taking a time out.

Spyder said it so well, and it's very true. You should be able to feel your horse 'thinking' about a refusal before it actually occurs and head it off with a quick warning. For me its a growl saying the horses name. That usually nips it in the bud. Again, it's staying focused and in tune with your horse and what you want to accomplish.


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## MyBoyPuck

Marecare said:


> Not in your wildest dreams!
> I do not work with the Parelli program at all.
> I like to ride too much.


Ha! Love this statement! So true! 

As for the OP's question. If you replace the phrase "showing him who's boss" with "be a good leader" that will go a long way toward fixing your problem. It sounds like your horse is looking for you to actively ride him and not just sit up there. From the time you get into the saddle, ride. Take up the rein slack, walk, trot, canter, change direction FREQUENTLY. Everything is to be done calmly. If your horse tenses up at the walk, then keep walking until you can move onto trotting calmly. Walk for 3 hours if you have to. Don't end the ride if your horse is being a goof. The reward for staying calm is to stop working. Use obstacles to walk around, poles to walk over, frequent halts and changes of direction until he's calm. Only then move onto trot while still intermixing walks and halts. If your horse doesn't know the one rein stop, use this opportunity to teach it to him. Most horses, once they know you know where the breaks are, the whole spin around and run home thing quickly disappears. Again it's just an issue of being an assertive and effective rider.


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## Spirithorse

Not to turn this thread, buuuuuut we Parelli people DO ride a lot  

I do not "show my horse who is boss." I lead him, but in some cases I also follow. Being a leader and being a boss are two different things IMO. My horse trusts and respects me, but I've never forced anything on him. I work with his nature. If he needs me to be assertive, I will be. If he needs me to back off and go slower because he is unconfident, I will. THAT'S showing the horse you are a good leader....not being forceful or running their butts around.


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## ridergirl23

like a lot of people said (VERY WELL SAID MARECARE AND SPYDER!) i dont boss my horse, i have a very dominant horse, but i dont boss her, haha we sorta more like, make desicions together, i have had people go..WHAT? you cant do that! but really, it works.


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## Alwaysbehind

> *How do you show your horse your 'boss'?*


I invite my boss out to the barn and just let the horse see them. Nothing tricky about it, but my boss is not scary in any way so I guess there is not reason to do anything fancy.

:lol:


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## heyycutter

i agree with TwoGeldings

it may seem mean, but its worked for me too.
my boy was gelded only a couple years ago (hes about 13 now) and once in a great while he gets back into stallion mode and thinks hes the boss and gets hard to control. when that happens, i work him really really hard and i yell at him when he trys to fight me and that keeps him calm and safe enough for my mother to ride, who had a horrible fall off a horse and got a spine and head injury. might seem mean, but it works


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## MIEventer

I agree with posts where people state *you do not dominate your horse,* you work together with your horse to establish a bond, trust and a relationship.

We are not here to dominate these animals, we are here to work with and together.

Marecare, Spyder, Kevin, ridergirl and others.

Great advice has been given - and please, stop thinking "must dominate and show my horse who is boss" because that'll get you no where.


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## Spirithorse

^^ Yep!!


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## MacabreMikolaj

Alwaysbehind said:


> I invite my boss out to the barn and just let the horse see them. Nothing tricky about it, but my boss is not scary in any way so I guess there is not reason to do anything fancy.
> 
> :lol:


ROFL, epic win.

Agreed with what most other people have said. Don't fight your horse, work with your horse. He hits an area and wants to back up? Great! You make him back up until YOU tell him to stop. If he thinks backing up is so fantastic, he's going to think twice when it becomes your idea and not his. He's figuring out you don't much like it when he backs up on you. You can smack him around and turn tight circles, but I really do prefer the compromise method - you want to do something, fine, let's do it until you're sick of it to! Whatever area he decides he feels like going to, alright then bud, we're going to work here instead then!

I find keeping calm and quiet usually gets you a whole lot further then hootin' and slappin'. Don't allow yourself to alert your horse to the fact you're annoyed. This tells him he's "winning" the leadership race. A lot of people are of the school that you can never let a horse do certain things or he thinks they're right. A lot of people don't realize that compromising is the best system for letting your horse realize even when he does it HIS way, he always seems to end up doing it YOUR way as well. Instead of fighting him tooth and nail to keep him away from the gate, simply work him AT the gate. Take the path of least resistance, and horses very quickly figure out that their attempts to be sneaky are in vain because they're still not getting out of work.


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## SydLovesJackers

Thank you everyone that really helped  

Next ride, which should be today, hopefully will go A LOT better than yesterday. I'm going to lunge him for longer and ride him along the trail back and forth. I was told by a person that does good with horses that Jack needs saddle work. So I'm probably going to make Jack walk the trail back and forth today. Maybe lunge him for 10 minutes before i ride.

Again thank you everyone


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## MacabreMikolaj

May I ask, is there a reason why you lunge?

I personally dislike lunging. I think it's a waste of time unless it's being used to exercise a horse you cannot ride. Lunging is boring to horses, and hard work. I find horses become quite crabby when they're asking to work in circles for 10-15 minutes and then they have to get ridden as well?! 

I spend time doing groundwork with my youngsters in the beginning. The first few rides I put on Jynxy, I round penned her because I wanted her alert to her cues and my voice before getting on and letting her sort out any bucks she may have for the saddle. This isn't quite the same as lunging because I'm making her stop and pivot and change gaits and change pace, and keeping her on her toes to get her attention on me.

Now, I do not round pen her. I do not want any horse I own feeling like they need to "work the kinks" out before I mount up. They have plenty of time to do that in the pasture, and now I want to ride you so you can behave for the next 60 minutes. Jynx has limited amounts of energy to begin with, and now that I've stopped round penning her before rides, I find her MUCH easier to ride. She's not exerting all her energy running in pointless circles, and even as a coming 3 year old filly, I do not have any issues with her acting silly when I mount up.

So just a suggestion. Unless there is a very specific reason on why he needs to be lunged, I'd scrap it. You've already managed to make him bored and annoyed by the time you're done lunging, and that's not a good place for him to be now that you want to ride.


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## SydLovesJackers

I feel its a way for him to listen to me and know he has to listen to me. I dont know what else to do to make him listen to me.


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## mls

MacabreMikolaj said:


> I personally dislike lunging. I think it's a waste of time unless it's being used to exercise a horse you cannot ride. Lunging is boring to horses, and hard work. I find horses become quite crabby when they're asking to work in circles for 10-15 minutes and then they have to get ridden as well?!
> 
> The first few rides I put on Jynxy, I round penned her because I wanted her alert to her cues and my voice before getting on and letting her sort out any bucks she may have for the saddle. This isn't quite the same as lunging because I'm making her stop and pivot and change gaits and change pace, and keeping her on her toes to get her attention on me.


If lunging is done correctly - it is an excellent way to warm the horse up, determine soundness and attentiveness.

My horses can stop, pivot, change gaits and change pace on the lunge line. What they cannot do - as opposed to a round pen - is run off wildly and change direction anytime they so choose.

Round penning is basically free lunging. The only thing a horse cannot do on a line vs free is to roll back to the rail.


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## MacabreMikolaj

If you are properly round penning, it should be no different the a lunge line. A horse has just as much of an ability to bolt, spin and act silly on a line as he does in a pen if the handler is not being attentive and clear with his/her signals.

I was not saying round penning was better then lunging. I was using it as an example - if she's able to do the same things on a line, then good. My point was that whether you're lunging or round penning, if you're doing it strictly for the purpose of burning energy by running them in circles, then you're setting the horse up to be annoyed before you ever get on.


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## Marecare

I might look at the "Line" a bit different than some.
It is an opportunity for the horse to "Follow" the line or rope.

This idea transfers to the ride as the rider asks the horse to change direction (in the beginning) with a direct rein.

This is also a foundation for long line driving which also helps to solve problems when not mounted.
The work is accomplished at the walk or trot in most cases.
This is a 20 month old filly that is being worked and readied for driving.
Notice how the lesson starts and ends.


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## Meaghan1011

Be the alpha in his life, and make him do what u want , right when u ask


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