# Tying plastic bags to saddle to "sack out"



## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

That's a great way to give a horse a traumatic reaction to plastic bags, IMO.

For my horse, it kind of depends on what he's scared of. Some things I can train with, some things I can't. 

If it's something I can train with, I get whatever *it* is and put it in the arena and let him sniff it and have him touch it, etc. Then I do groundwork then I ride. This is pretty rare because most of the things that scare him are machines and such that I can't stick into the arena. He does have a thing about blue barrels though, always gives them the stinkeye. I can't figure it out.

If it's something huge and on the trail, then also depends on what it is. If it's an object, like a big machine and I feel that he's really afraid, I will get down and do some ground exercises. If it's something that I can approach safely, then I will approach it, horse in hand, and touch it, and let him see me interact with it. Then I make him put his nose on it. If I can give him a treat or let him grab a bunch of grass for a few seconds, I do that too. Then I pop back in the saddle and back to work. This is ONLY when I feel that he's truly afraid and not just being a twit.

I do it this way because I feel I have my horse's confidence 100% on the ground. He does MUCH better if he can see me react and interact with something. Don't get me wrong, he trusts me under saddle, but it's not as solid as it is on the ground.


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## Beling (Nov 3, 2009)

No, it's not the correct way.

I had a horse that got into the garden, and ate my corn, and got a long stalk caught in her teeth. It rustled, she ran off, it followed her and she freaked. Like the horse you describe, she ran away for a fairly long time before it broke off.

She lived to be over 20, and I could NEVER give her a bit of fresh corn, or even a leaf. Just the SMELL of corn was enough to chase her away.

What the lady is doing is, I think it's called, "sensory flooding". I've _heard_ it works; but I've never_ seen_ it work.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

The last place I think would put something to desensitize is tied to a saddle, especially something noisy. They're flight animals who can't see directly behind themselves. It's not fair to the horse to have something extremely noisy tied somewhere where he can't see it or investigate it for himself, then have it get even worse when he gets scared and uses natural defense responses to remove it.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

All that method does is teach the horse to absolutely freak out and bolt every time it gets close to a plastic bag.

That type of thing is what they show on movies and there were some 'bronc busters' back in the old days that would use that method, but from what I've seen, it's very ineffective and generally teaches the opposite of what you want.

The proper way to desensitize or "sack out" is by approach and retreat. You approach the horse with the scary object and when they start to get uncomfortable, you stop approaching. When they visibly relax, then you retreat, then do it all over again, getting closer and closer each time.

Horses don't learn from the pressure, they learn from the release of the pressure. So, if the scary stimuli isn't removed when they respond accordingly (stopping and standing steady), then they've learned nothing.


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## palogal (May 30, 2008)

I've sacked out that way in very extreme cases when the horse just would not quit being spooky after several other attempts. It does work but it has to be done until he stops. It can backfire if the horse just will not relax. It took me probably 30 minutes and the horse stopped running and I could walk him on a halter and lead with the bags tied to the saddle. I prefer round pen so they don't have that much room to run.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I use to bu feral ponies off the Welsh mountains. These ponies had rarely, if ever had a hand on them and what handling they had was all done very roughly.

I would get then from the horsebox into separate stables which were converted pig sties in a car breakers yard. 
They had a small pen area where they could look out. 
I would get them haltered and tie tin cans with lids and a few pebbles in the can to their manes and tails. 
Heavy vehicles were driving past the pens every few minutes, there was all sorts of banging and crashing but within a day they really were nonchalant about it all and came good very quickly. 

These ponies were all over 4 years and were destined to be children's ponies so it was vital they were 'bomb' proof. 

I would never do anything like this if they were in a large area, I would, even in an arena, want a line on them so I retained control.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

I sure hope that owner never has to take something crinkly out of their poscket when they are in the saddle.......:shock:

Silliest thing I have heard in a while. Like smrobs said-aproach and retreat. And make sure you do it on both sides of the horse. The right horse and the left horse may be totally different!


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## DimSum (Mar 28, 2012)

Never heard of that technique, however I have one of my own. One of our horses was very shy of plastic bags but was-and still is- very food motivated. We started putting the treats into a plastic bag and kept crinkling it and shaking it to give him the carrots...from a comfy distance until he relaxed. It didn't take him long to associate the sound of the bag crinkling with treat time. Then we progressed to shaking the bag right next to him, and finally to doing it while in the saddle. I know people here frown on treats, but in this case it worked very well.


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## equinelyn (Dec 15, 2010)

I think that's an awesome idea!!! Not only is he desensitized to plastic bags but hearing that crinkle sound makes him happy! Great way to turn something feared into something good!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

There is a fine line between "sacking out" and scaring the living hell out of a horse. I'm no expert is sacking out, but in those 2 seconds he stopped all the stimulus should have been taken away, which obviously you cannot do when things are tied to your saddle and you don't have ANY control over your horse. 

From what I understand the point of this to make them think they are in control of what's happening. When they stop, you stop. It's HIGHLY controlled, no running rampade scaring the bejesus out of the horse until he keels over.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## equinelyn (Dec 15, 2010)

I didn't get there til the end of this whole thing. But the poor horse looked exhausted. Would stop and pant, then the wind would blow and it would kick out running and bucking. It was non-stop.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

DimSum said:


> Never heard of that technique, however I have one of my own. One of our horses was very shy of plastic bags but was-and still is- very food motivated. We started putting the treats into a plastic bag and kept crinkling it and shaking it to give him the carrots...from a comfy distance until he relaxed. It didn't take him long to associate the sound of the bag crinkling with treat time. Then we progressed to shaking the bag right next to him, and finally to doing it while in the saddle. I know people here frown on treats, but in this case it worked very well.


My 27 year old gelding is still dangerous around plastic bags. He knows carrots can come from them but if he doesn't see carrots, it attempts to flee. Due to his former owner attempting to 'teach him' when the horse was less than 10 years old.

I very much dislike some noises, I respect that my horses do too.


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## DimSum (Mar 28, 2012)

mls said:


> My 27 year old gelding is still dangerous around plastic bags. He knows carrots can come from them but if he doesn't see carrots, it attempts to flee. Due to his former owner attempting to 'teach him' when the horse was less than 10 years old.
> 
> I very much dislike some noises, I respect that my horses do too.


 at 27 he deserves to have his quirks!


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Unfortunately someone watched this on youtube. It's not about the plastic bags but using the correct way to introduce them. My one horse had a huge issue with clanking sounds. I tied a bagfull of cans to the haynet and threw it in the snow. At first he was quite reactionary but within an hour he had dealt with his issue and was pulling hay from the net. Horses need to deal with things from a distance to start and get used to it's presence. I'd have tied bags to one end of the arena and put hay there. This way he approaches on his terms and isn't forced.


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