# Western trail riders!



## Blondehorselover (Oct 20, 2011)

Do you just use the front cinch while trail riding or do you use a back cinch as well? What about a breast collar?


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

i use all 3. but it depends on your horse. i use the breast collar bc we do hills and i don't want the saddle to slip back. i use the front cinch for guarantee and a back cinch in the off chance the horse was to throw a buck. 
i also like the way the saddle looks with a back cinch(thats the only real reason why i use it)


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

I use all 3 as well, though sometimes i go without the breast collar. The back cinch is great for "just in case" moments as it keeps the back of the saddle from tipping forward when going downhill and depending on the horse & saddle, that doesn't have to be a huge hill either.
I like the look of the breast collar but it also helps to keep the saddle in place and provides a little assistance if the saddle starts to slide to the side.


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

If you don't own a back cinch and breast collar yet and you're just going to be doing flat trails, I wouldn't worry about rushing out to buy them. I was told they aren't NEEDED unless you're doing actual work to help keep the saddle in place.


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## Idlepastures (Sep 5, 2011)

Most of my horses get just the front cinch. (none of my saddles have a back cinch...****). One horse gets a breast collar any time his saddle is on because you just look at him sideways and his saddle slides. 

Husbands horse is fixing to get a breastcollar too, though, cause his saddle slides quite a bit.


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## amp23 (Jan 6, 2011)

I've always ridden on pretty flat ground and never had any issues with the saddle moving or sliding, so I've never used a breast collar or back cinch.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

It probaboy depends on the saddle, Mine is shorter so dont think a back cinch is needed fo rmuch. It does give you somewhere to tie the bottom od your saddle bag to keep it from flopping around.
Recently I am questioning the use of a breast strap. I never see them do much besides flap around and add some bling to your horse.
Seems like if it was tight enough to actually keep your saddle from going back it would be painfull or rub pretty bad. Maybe they are supposed to be that tight but I always see them with a couple inches of slack,


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

You always need a front cinch - it's what keeps you saddle on. I use the other two but the trick is to know how to adjust them otherwise they are only there for show.

The trails we ride make the rear cinch and a breast collar helpful.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

I used all 3 this summer because I was riding all over hills and my saddle didn't fit so it would move around. The breastcollar helped quite a bit with keeping my saddle from sliding back when Abby got all sweaty. She also liked to poof out her belly so after riding for a short time, my back cinch was completely useless. Lately now that I've been using a saddle that fits, I've only been using a front cinch, but I've also onkly really donr arena work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The Copper Kid (Oct 4, 2011)

Just to kind of add to this back cinch buisness... I was watching a training video and the horse freaked out when to rope was tied there to get her use to the back cinch. She wasn't broke at all and hadn't really been handled to much prior to the training video. I am interested it using a back cinch for the just in case moments but to be honest don't want to really go through the whole process of a freaking out horse lol... Call me lazy but I trained Copper and just don't want to do anymore new things lol. Anywho... Copper is wonderful under the saddle and very resposive now... Do you think that he would react that way or just kinda be like... really mom... you're putting something else on me?

And I to answer I am a believer in breast collars...the more sercuity the better I think.


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## SaddleOnline (Oct 20, 2011)

I live in relatively flat terrain and only ever use the front cinch. If you are going to be riding in rugged terrain or if your horse is built in a way that causes the saddle to slide, I would add the breast collar. In my experience, you really don't need the back cinch unless you are working cattle in the mountains or something equally as extreme.


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## Trails (Jan 28, 2009)

I'll second what Iride stated about the front cinch

If you're going to be going up significant hills a breast collar is a very nice thing to have. and if you plan on coming back down those hills a crupper also comes in quite handy. 

The "back" cinch is also called a flank cinch and is great for keeping a saddle from tipping up on the front end, such as when you've got a steer dallied to the saddle horn. For trail riding probably not a requirement for trail riding.


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## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

Originally I never cared for back cinches or breast collars. But my mare is built pretty narrow, and even though my saddle fits pretty good- it has the habit of sliding back on her. So I never ride her without a breast collar. For long trails though I like my nice soft felt one that doesn't rub her, and is shaped so that it doesn't choke either, if it's just for standing for pictures, I use the leather. I trained her for the back cinch just because I could say she uses it... we only really wear it for show though. I like the "full" western look :lol:


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## HarleyWood (Oct 14, 2011)

i use a cinch and a breast callor at all times. i like speed events and it keeps the saddle on. i tryed a back cinch and my horse FREAKED out and bucked me off after 15 minutes, and going into a canter. so i don't use them anymore.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

I use all 3. If you do use a rear cinch, make sure you tether (attach) it to the front cinch. Otherwise, when you go uphill, it will slip back and get the horse in the flank. THAT will get your horse bucking. I found that out the hard way!!


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

so how tight across the chest should the breast strap be ?


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## HarleyWood (Oct 14, 2011)

Joe4d said:


> so how tight across the chest should the breast strap be ?


 
i like mine so its not tight but lose enough for the breast collar to let them move. dont let it go down into his chest where it restrics his movement.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

HarleyWood said:


> i like mine so its not tight but lose enough for the breast collar to let them move. dont let it go down into his chest where it restrics his movement.



Exactly my point, so how on earth is that gonna keep saddle from sliding back ?


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## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

Joe4d said:


> Exactly my point, so how on earth is that gonna keep saddle from sliding back ?


When the saddle moves back ways, then the strap on the front tightens and keeps it from moving any further. The strap should be snug, but not constricting. 

That make sense?

Edit: It in no way should make up for a poor fitting saddle, it's an aid like anything else and some people simply think it looks nice. I could go without a breast strap if needed, but I like how it helps (even if a little) keep the saddle in place when going up long hills.


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## Painted Horse (Dec 29, 2006)

Back Cinchs are basically for working cattle. (You never see them on an english saddle). They hold down the back of the saddle when a steer hits the end of the rope. If you have a horse that Rocks a lot while in a canter, The back cinch can help prevent you from getting launched. I also like to tie saddle bags, water bottle holders etc to them so they don't bounce.

Front or main cinch is manditory. As mention it is what holds the saddle on.

Breast collars help a lot in steep country. I use one to help secure the saddle. Since I ride with a kinda loose front cinch. I like my horses to be able to breath when climbing steep hills, So I leave the cinch on the loose side, snug but not tight. The breast collar helps keep the saddle in place with out over tightening the cinch.

Cruppers help if you are going down steep hills, especially with a horse that doesn't have good withers.

If I'm packing anything, I use all 4 since pack gear doesn't try to balance, at least a human will try to stay centered and balanced.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Note to some of the posts (I am currently on an ipod and multiple quoting woukd be very diffiult): If you are introducing yiur horse to a back cinch or if you are using one, make sure it is connected to he front cinch and not back too far in general. A back cinch can quickly become a bucking strap if it slides back too far.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cacowgirl (Feb 19, 2011)

Also, if you're going to use a crupper, you do want to introduce your horse to that before you are out on the trail or that can lead to some bucking also!


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Oh my. I can think of a particular buckskin mare that would not appreciate a crupper at all! HahaP
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

We always use both cinches. My wife uses a tie down on her horse so she also uses a chest piece. Only if we are going on steep terrain do I use a chest piece. 

To those that ask how the chest piece is suppose to fit: it should be snug against the chest but be able to move up and down. Being snug keeps the saddle in place. Being able to move up and down allows the horse room to move. 

Getting a horse used to a back cinch is no different than the front cinch. You wrap a rope around the horse and make it snug. If the horse acts up, you hold the pressure until they settle, then release
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

I was taught that the rule of thumb for breastcollar fit was that it shoukd be loose enough to fit your fist between the center and the horse's chest. Granted, there are huge differences in hand size, but you get the general idea.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I use both a back cinch and a breast collar on every horse I ride, no matter what I'll be doing. Not only do they add a bit of stability to the saddle as a whole (back cinch keeps the back of the saddle down and stable, breast collar keeps it from sliding back and can keep it from sliding all the way down under a horse's belly in an wreck), but I consider it a part of my training. 

I've seen lots of people with "broke" horses end up frustrated or hurt because the horse refused to move the first time they had a breast collar on...or they threw a fit and went to bucking the first time they had a back cinch pulled up snug. I even work to desensitize them to having something pull up tight in their flank to prevent the exact wreck that Allison was talking about. Sometimes things happen and the cinch hobble breaks and you may or may not know until you get off....one way or another. I much prefer to find out after I've finished the ride and step down.

No matter how "trained" a horse is, I don't consider the training on a horse complete until I know that anyone can throw any kind of saddle up on them, step aboard, and ride off with zero trouble, even with things flapping against their shoulders, hips, flanks, belly, and even neck.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Some horses don't care about the back cinch, even from the very first. My Aires didn't and neither did one of the other boarder's horses that was being broke at the same time. Of course, Aires was pretty much born broke, so... lol


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Drafty, what I've noticed is that if they are introduced to the bc and back cinch the same time they are introduced to everything else, they never seem to have a problem with it. It's those horses that are ridden for months or years with nothing but a front cinch that tend to freak out the first time additions are made to the saddle.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

That makes sense, smrobs. Didn't really think of it that way, to be honest. lol Aires has worn a breast collar once and then it was just in the arena. Same with the back cinch.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

I use a back cinch, and I make sure it is snugged up close, as well as making sure it's clipped to my main cinch.

I hate seeing back cinches swinging in the wind!

It was explained to me that if the back of the saddle does kick up, you don't want your back cinch taking up a couple of inches of slack before it slams into the horse, another recipe for disaster.

I now start everyone in a western saddle with a snugly fitted back cinch, let them get used to it from the get go.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I also had the luck to watch what can happen when someone starts a colt with no back cinch. There was a guy that I knew that only used a front cinch on the colts he started. One day at a rodeo, his horse ducked his head and went to bucking. With ever stride when the horse's front legs would hit the ground, the back of the saddle would pop up and move the saddle a bit more forward. The horse ended up bucking the rider and saddle both off over his head then proceeded to step on the rider :?.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

If youride with a back cinch it should be snug. I can't count the number of people that I see riding around with a back cinch hanging 6 inches below thier horses belly. It does no good hanging that low but it is excellent for catching banches and directing them into your horses belly which makes for some exciting rides.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Or getting a back foot hung when the horse kicks at a fly LOL.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I use all 3. If I had to leave one off, it would be the back cinch. 

Front cinches are a must, it goes without saying. 

Breast collars I feel are like a seat-belt for my saddle. It is there in an emergency in case the saddle is looser than I think and wants to slide back or roll. In a spooking emergency, it can keep the saddle from rolling under the horse. So I feel like 99% of the time it is there for looks, but in a difficult trail emergency it could save my life.

I like to use all 3.


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## HarleyWood (Oct 14, 2011)

it keeps it from moving back to his butt but lets him move his legs and shoulders so he can move right and not get hurt.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Notice the proper adjustment of Trailhorserider's tack. I especially like the breast collar tugs that are anchored up close to the horn so that it doesn't interfere with the horse's shoulders.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

iridehorses said:


> Notice the proper adjustment of Trailhorserider's tack. I especially like the breast collar tugs that are anchored up close to the horn so that it doesn't interfere with the horse's shoulders.


Why thank you iridehorses. That's quite a compliment! I made that breastcollar myself, and it is basically a take off from the English/Aussie style breast collars and the old martingales that were popular with western riders in the 1930's-40's. It has a strap over the withers and the tugs up high. I love the look of the old-style tack with dots, so I did the heart w/dots too. 

I have some very pretty western breast collars and I have tried using them with an added wither strap but they still don't fit as nice as the ones I made myself. :lol:


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## atomic (Aug 15, 2011)

I use all three, but mostly for aesthetic purposes. My saddle comes equipped with the rear cinch and IMO they look silly flapping around in the wind. It also has a matching breast plate which is mostly for looks but they can always come in use as sometimes you never know what you'll run into on the trail.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Red Gate Farm (Aug 28, 2011)

Trailhorserider, what is the big tassel underneath the saddle for?


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## Equestrian09 (Jan 25, 2010)

On my new xxwide paint gelding that is prone to buck, I'm using a back cinch that is clipped to front cinch adjusted as close to belly as possible without being snug. He has high withers and no saddle roll, so I do not need a breast collar. He is also butt-high, so that saddle is never sliding back!

On my xwide 16.2 Arab cross with no withers and zero buck  I've never used a back cinch but really need a breastcollar for his non-stop saddle roll. 

I have a nice new Circle Y breastcollar that is way too small for him so here it sits. I need a brand that comes in a Large Horse size. I think Tucker might make one, I will check on that. Anyone know of any that run real long & large, please let me know!

*I love the way trailhorseriders breastcollar fits, too!*


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

You could find a custom saddle maker and have one built.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Equestrian09 said:


> I have a nice new Circle Y breastcollar that is way too small for him so here it sits. I need a brand that comes in a Large Horse size. I think Tucker might make one, I will check on that. Anyone know of any that run real long & large, please let me know!
> 
> *I love the way trailhorseriders breastcollar fits, too!*


You can always try longer tugs.


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

Red Gate Farm said:


> Trailhorserider, what is the big tassel underneath the saddle for?


It's to help keep flies off the belly
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Equestrian09 (Jan 25, 2010)

I think I may have to go the custom route as kevinshorses suggested. I tried putting 2 tugs end to end on each side just for an idea of how much more length I need, and it still barely fit. That was a good idea to try, iridehorses, and I thank you both for the help. I think I need a longer 'across the chest' part so the tug straps don't have to be super long. Eveyrone else's look so nice and perfect, mine looks shrunk on him. I am 5'10" so I prefer bigger horses, but had no idea fitting tack would be such a challenge!!! I took measurements of what I have and what I need, so I will go form there. Thanks again!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Equestrian, I know they aren't the typical looking BC, but I have found that pulling types tend to fit a larger range of horses, even those that are rather...bulky. I get mine from here... Pulling Collar PN by SaddleSmith Carlos,equine items in Patricias Horse Tack store on eBay!.

Here it is on horses ranging from the ~12.3 hh, >700 pound pony that I'm riding now (and I do realize that it looks like 2 different breast collars, that's because it is, but they are both the same size by the same maker, just different styles)









To my 2 year old draft cross that is 15.3 hh and about 1200 pounds









To my Dads 15.2 hh, 1350 pound tank of a QH









And my 16hh, 1150 pound Appendix.


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## Cacowgirl (Feb 19, 2011)

Nice horses-I like that style of BC, some English ones are along those lines, too.


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## Equestrian09 (Jan 25, 2010)

*Thanks!*

smrobs,* thank you*! Those look heavy duty, good quality, nicely tooled and fairly priced and a quick ship from Texas to me. I think one of those in her eBay store may be perfect  I like the larger leather padded area under center dee to reduce chances of rubbing.

I like the way you and trailhorserider attach yours up high enough to get out of the way of the horse's movement. I have a new tucker trail saddle coming on Monday with dees set in a position that will allow for this. 

It is their xwide draft tree w/ short backed. round skirt and I am excited to try it on both my guys, I can get a new BC and then we will be good to go! (That is, if I can ever take off work to ride after paying off our new tack purchases :wink:


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## candandy49 (Jan 16, 2011)

I am another trial rider who always used the back cinch and breast collar and of course the front cinch.  When my husband decided to start trail riding with me and some friends I decked him and his horse out in the essentials of trail riding. Good thing to, 'cause we tended to get on the extreme side of trail riding with another couple we were friends with at the time. Our motto, was: "Always be prepared for the roughest of terrain, 'cause the next turn in the trail could be holding a major surprise".


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## Painted Horse (Dec 29, 2006)

Red Gate, It's a Shooo Fly.


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## HarleyWood (Oct 14, 2011)

i trail and do shows and i got a saddle and has a back cinch and the last time i used a back cinch my qh desided he didnt like it and i ended up eatting dirt i was a few years ago and i havent used one again (i do with my friends horses but they are use to them) how to get a horse use to them? i put it on him today and he seemed fine but i didnt ride.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Only way to get him used to it is just to use it. If he misbehaves, then handle the misbehavior as it comes up, but if it's adjusted properly and is tethered to your front cinch like it should be, then it shouldn't take long for him to just accept it.

Equestrian, you are extremely welcome. I have been very happy with them, considering they are better quality than many others I've seen and half the price. Most other places I've looked were put together poorly and were still $100+. Oh, and with them, you really won't need (or want to use) the D rings on the saddle because the ones I posted are designed to go around the swells. If you tried to run them through a D-ring, then the tugs would be _much_ too long.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Equestrian09 said:


> I like the way you and trailhorserider attach yours up high enough to get out of the way of the horse's movement. I have a new tucker trail saddle coming on Monday with dees set in a position that will allow for this.


Actually, the cool thing about the pulling collars that Smrobs has posted a link to (and wow, they are lovely! I'm have tempted to get one and I don't even need one!) and my breast collar, which is more like an Aussie or english type, is that you don't have to have the dees set up real high. I really like dee's set up high, but short of a custom saddle, they generally don't come that way. But with a pulling collar it attaches to the gullet so the dee's don't matter. And with my breast collar, I have a wither/neck strap, so it holds the breast collar up where I want it, and then have the tugs attached to the dees in the normal (lower) position. So you can get the breast collar where you want it without having to alter an existing saddle.

Pulling collars seem to be really "in" right now, and my riding buddy uses them too. I guess I haven't changed over because I have been happy with what I have. 

Mine is designed similar to this photo I found on Google:

http://todayshorsesense.com/leatherhorsetack/files/2011/07/Headstall-custom.jpg

I like the buckle over the neck for adjustment (mine has that too). And the photo shows the higher dees (which are very nice) but my saddle just has the lower breast collar dees and it still works just the same. 



Red Gate Farm said:


> Trailhorserider, what is the big tassel underneath the saddle for?


Yes, it's a shoo-fly, but mainly I like the way it looks. When my friend first got one I kind of thought it looked weird, and then after watching it gently sway on her horses for a summer, I decided I liked it. :lol:


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

smrobs said:


> Equestrian, you are extremely welcome. I have been very happy with them, considering they are better quality than many others I've seen and half the price. Most other places I've looked were put together poorly and were still $100+. Oh, and with them, you really won't need (or want to use) the D rings on the saddle because the ones I posted are designed to go around the swells. If you tried to run them through a D-ring, then the tugs would be _much_ too long.


Those look SO nice for $70! Really lovely! I bet my friend payed twice that for hers!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Probably so LOL. I completely lucked out on getting my first one, it was on sale at my local tack shop because it was a floor model that had been on the big plastic horse and it was the only one of that style that they had. After I got that one, I searched and searched for some more of the same brand and could never find one. I was pretty much resigned to having to pay $125 for a good one from NRS when I started looking on Ebay and found her store. I was ecstatic. I even let my brother know and he is much happier with the one he got from her than he ever was with the billy cook he paid almost $200 for (that didn't even last 5 years before wearing completely out:roll.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I don't really use a back cinch on Rebel, because the saddle doesn't really move on him except backwards (high whithers) so he gets the breastcollar.

Depends on the horse and what I have handy at the time.


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## pattyusher (May 31, 2011)

I use both a back cinch and breastcollar, because I have them both already. They really help keep the saddle in place on varied terrain. Wouldn't need them both on flat ground, but I don't take them on and off each ride.


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