# What to charge for walking colicky horse?



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

That's a toughie. In emergecy situations I don't charge for my help, so would not charge for the walking. I would just have postponed the lesson, so wouldn't have lost the income. If the owner refused to come out (but driving 40 mins is getting there as fast as she can) I might charge but I've never had that situation. Now, I do charge for the routine meds and bandage changes, but I've never charged in an emergency, I kind of feel it goes with the territory as barn owner.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I'd be a little miffed if I had to pay for that. I'd expect a barn owner to do it until I could get there, unless it was for hours and hours. 

Once the horse owner got there did you hang around and help?


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

I rescheduled the lesson for the following day but it rained (and indoor isn't rideable yet). 

I don't charge for emergencies until after 8pm (like holding for the vet). For colic walking, luckily this is only my second one in the 3 years of being open. The first 1 died (lipoma) so I didn't charge. I did call her, she said she had class but would come out if she needed to but this was before I knew how bad it was. I gave him banamine and started walking. When I was walking him, I would stop for whatever reason and he would try to go down so I figured I better tell her to come out to improve my karma chances (if I don't call he's gonna die on me, if I do he'll be fine type of thing). She made it out when I was done walking him and he could stand with out wanting to go down.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

AlexS, She got there when I was done and he was better. However, if he was still sick, I would definitely stick around. I would just hand her the rope and go work on something else until she needed me.. and just check in to see how the horse was doing.

To clarify further: the impression I got from the phone call was "walk him, call me if it's really bad"...

Just curious, in case of future colic: If a horse colics at 3 pm, and an owner doesn't get off til 5pm and says she'll be there after work. Do you think they should be charged?


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

Hmmm... I don't know.

I wasn't charged at all when my horse coliced. He was hand-walked until I got there and took over (probably about 30 - 40mins?), she stayed with me, assisted the Vet (Vet wanted to know every last detail about his day, the hay she was feeding him etc....), stripped and double-bedded his stall as he was given a pretty hefty sedative so the Vet could tube him and then checked on him every 2 hours for the rest of the night, after I left. 

Since you did cancel a lesson, I'd ask the boarder if she feels the $40 lesson fee would be fair.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

Delfina said:


> Hmmm... I don't know.
> 
> I wasn't charged at all when my horse coliced. He was hand-walked until I got there and took over (probably about 30 - 40mins?), she stayed with me, assisted the Vet (Vet wanted to know every last detail about his day, the hay she was feeding him etc....), stripped and double-bedded his stall as he was given a pretty hefty sedative so the Vet could tube him and then checked on him every 2 hours for the rest of the night, after I left.
> 
> Since you did cancel a lesson, I'd ask the boarder if she feels the $40 lesson fee would be fair.


Delfina- wow consider yourself very lucky to have such an awesome BO. If I still lived at the barn, I would check before I went to bed but I wouldn't get up every two hours. I consider that to be the owners responsibility. When I was a boarder, my horse colicked while I was at work. I left work immediately(I was a starving college student too), drove 90 mph to the barn and stayed the night in her stall.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I don't think there should be a charge - period. Glad I don't board at your barn.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

Sorry you feel that way MIE... unfortunately unlike most barn owners, I wasn't born into it. I wasn't given our families land.. my barn and pipe fencing wern't built in the 80's when they were giving away drill stem pipe and metal was $.04 a foot. We have more start up debt than you can shake a stick at. My husband and I built our entire facility ourselves and still work 7 days a week to continue to pay our bills and improve our facility. I'm too embarrassed to say what I make off boarding horses as it's next to nothing and rely (like 90% of horse boarding facilities) on lesson income to make ends meet. I'm sorry if that makes me a horrible barn owner.. and I'm not saying that to be facetious, just to let yall know where I'm coming from.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

I was talking to another horse friend of mine and she had a good point. People pay me $50 an hour to yell(nicely lol)at them to put their heels down.. but $40 (boarders get a discounted rate) to literally drag a 1000lb sick animal around the arena so they don't die is out of the question! It is kind of funny.

Keep those suggestions coming though. I value your opinions even if I disagree.


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## MyLittleHunter (Jul 20, 2009)

My barn owner doesn't charge for that kind of stuff. She does it just for the love of the horses, and wanting them to be taken care of the best possible. I work for her and we all just help out with sick or injured horses with no charge to the owner. Obviously a vet needs to come out, then the owner has to pay the vet bill, but that's about it. When I brought my horses home for the winter and one coliced and she came the 30min to my house and gave my horse meds and helped me keep him up and walking free of charge. Another girl's horse recently had an abscess, and my barn owner allowed her to use her medical supplies for free to treat it. 

She built her barn herself too. Nothing was handed to her, she's the only one in her family who loves horses. Really it's up to you what/if you charge for it. Every barn owner is different and has a different situation.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

It's not the same thing as other extras that barn owners charge for though. For example, if an owner is not willing to pay extra for blanketing, then the horse does not get a blanket. 
With this situation, it's totally different, you would have walked that horse regardless of whether the owner wants to pay you or not. 

You also said that you would hang around and help out, so it is not about your time as you would be doing that because it is the right thing to do. 

If this happened at 1pm and the owner didn't get there until 6pm when they got off work - that would be different, you should charge them for that, as they choose not to come and leave you to deal with it - however this owner arrived within 40 minutes. You really can't expect someone to get there any faster than that, she obviously got there as soon as she possibly could. 

I don't think you should ask her for any money, it's not her problem that you were teaching, it is your job to care for those horses and emergencies happen. 
I personally would be really put out if my BO charged me in a situation like that. 

Something similar happened to me, my horse was 3 legged lame when she went to feed him in the morning. She called the farrier and then called me, I was at the barn within 20 mins (it's 15 mins from my house). In that 20 mins she had walked my horse to the barn which was a massive effort and the farrier was arriving as I pulled into the driveway. She was planning to hold the horse and deal with the issue without charge. 
There are some things that are not perfect about my barn, but I would be very hard pushed to ever move because of the quality of care that she provides for my horse.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

How many horses are at your barn? Just curious.



MyLittleHunter said:


> My barn owner doesn't charge for that kind of stuff. She does it just for the love of the horses, and wanting them to be taken care of the best possible. I work for her and we all just help out with sick or injured horses with no charge to the owner. Obviously a vet needs to come out, then the owner has to pay the vet bill, but that's about it. When I brought my horses home for the winter and one coliced and she came the 30min to my house and gave my horse meds and helped me keep him up and walking free of charge. Another girl's horse recently had an abscess, and my barn owner allowed her to use her medical supplies for free to treat it.
> 
> She built her barn herself too. Nothing was handed to her, she's the only one in her family who loves horses. Really it's up to you what/if you charge for it. Every barn owner is different and has a different situation.


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## amp23 (Jan 6, 2011)

At my barn I would not be charged for that. If it had been hours of walking the horse, I could understand that. I know if I was in class or at work I would tell my BO to do what she could till I got there and she would be okay with that. Over the summer my horse needed to have a fly mask on and meds put on his eye for a few days - while I was across the country. She did this free of charge. I would think something like this would go along with the responsibilities of a BO - the well being of a horse at your stable. I would also be put off if my BO asked for payment for something like this.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

Again I value your opinion but I do feel like I have to defend myself so everyone doesn't think I'm a monster for considering charging for my time. 

For good clients (pay on time, clean up after themselves, take good care of their horses) I do most of the things you mentioned for free. This particular boarder is a good boarder. The horse... not so much. We use him in our lesson program (for a discount on board) but he is always doing something asinine. He's ripped down our fence (including 2 cemented in pipe stretcher posts) 3 times. He has random bouts of head shyness and the next thing you know you have a bloody nose because he whacks you in the face. He also ran over my assistant while trying to chase off another horse. Deworming him isn't pleasant either.. imagine running backwards, rearing ect... A few months ago he managed to cut his face and needed stitches. I was there till 12:30 at night (owner was not) and didn't charge her. He generally doesn't appreciate needles or stuff being sprayed on his wounds. So I have to ask myself, when is enough, enough?

ETA: If my assistant was there, I would've had her do it so I could give a lesson. Is it fair that I would've had to pay her to walk someone elses horse?


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

starlinestables said:


> I walked him for approximately an hour until he was comfortable.


Actually, the theory is that you should only walk for 20 minutes. If the horse doesn't feel better from twenty minutes of walking, an hour isn't going to help. The last thing you want is for a horse to be exhausted from endless walking going into colic surgery. (_How to be Your Own Veterinarian_, by Ruth B. James) Since the horse was rolling, it's a bit different, but just something to keep in mind when you're considering charging for it.


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## Buckcherry (Nov 18, 2010)

I don't think that is something you should charge for. It should be something you would do out of the kindness of your heart knowing that she couldnt make it out there for a while.

She might not have a job where "my horse is Colicing" isnt a good excuse to leave. My work would not let me and I would be at the mercy of the BO to help me out in a tough situation.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Count me in the "lucky you're at an awesome barn" camp. I wouldn't have been charged for that.

My girl recently had an abscess burst in her shoulder and was put in a stall for 5 days where she was cared for by the BO (_of course_ this happened on a weekend that I was 5 hours away and couldn't get back for two days). The only thing I was charged for were the antibiotics and the bute (that's right, not for stall board and not for time either). In fact I wouldn't have been charged for those at all, except that I reminded the BO that I owed her when I was writing a check at the month. 

In circumstances such as these, if I were the hore owner I would probably _offer_ some money for your time but I wouldn't expect to be _charged_ for it if that makes sense? For example, I offered my BO some extra money for the time she took caring for Bobbie while I was away but she refused to take it. To me it seems like the type of situation where it depends on your relationship with your client. 

Incidentals such as this are part and parcel of being a BO unfortunately. JMO.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

That's very nice of you to offer to pay for her time. In the 3 years I've been open, I've only had that happen once and it was recently for hauling a new boarder to my barn. In case you were wondering, I didn't pocket the money.. she insisted and I just added it to her account as a credit. 

No one answered my other questions though..

If this were a more frequent than usual occurrence for this horse? Why would you charge for 2gms of bute that cost $2... and not the $8.50 it costs to pay someone to walk the horse till you get there?


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

My question is what is the state of the fencing that the horse got tangled in? Was it a known potential hazard? Or was it a freak accident?


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

bubba13 said:


> My question is what is the state of the fencing that the horse got tangled in? Was it a known potential hazard? Or was it a freak accident?


The fence he got into was 4 strand barbLESS wire topped with a strand of electric on top. Majority of our T-post also have rubber toppers. We actually just tightened and check fences a week or so before because we had alot of new horses come in. 

Several months ago, he got into a 8 strand barbless wire fence with 3 strands of electric (my neighbor insisted since he sometimes has cows). Didn't get hurt accept for a couple of small minor scratches amazingly enough.


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## SaddleOnline (Oct 20, 2011)

If you don't mention charging for emergency services in your boarding agreement, I don't think you can fairly charge her for the hour. Fact is, this is what life with horses is about and sometimes you just have to take the blows as they come. Hopefully, if you're not there one day and one of your horses suddenly colics, someone will be there to take care of it and walk it for you without a second thought.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

I would wait for her to ask then tell her whatever she thought was fair. If she didn't bring it up, I would let it go. 

If her horse is that much of a problem, I would sit her down and let her know that you can't continue to do things like that for free anymore.


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## Red Gate Farm (Aug 28, 2011)

If I were the horse owner, I would offer _something_ as compensation. I know people don't go through the hassle of boarding just for the fun of it, it's a business too.

Your time is money. If I was strapped and couldn't offer you monetary compensation, I would offer to do something to help you around the stable that would free you up for an hour, sort of to make up for that hour you lost keeping my horse from colicking.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Our BO does not charge for *emergency situations*...especially for 40 minutes. However, if it comes time for planned daily treatment and the horse owner wants her to do it, there would be a charge. The BO also does charge for other PLANNED help like holding for a farrier or vet in the owners absence.

Not all of you T stakes are topped? I find that worrisome.

Oh, and there are approx 40 horses at my barn.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

SaddleOnline said:


> If you don't mention charging for emergency services in your boarding agreement, I don't think you can fairly charge her for the hour.



I agree. These things should be clear beforehand. If you want to charge, change your boarding agreement for future clients. Not much you can do for your current situation.


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## christabelle (Feb 13, 2011)

Hmmmm, well 40$ is not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things... However, I think you would be better off to charge for damages that the horse has done to your fencing vice an emergency. I spend 40$ for a new bit... But I would find it callus for someone to charge me for walking my horse around. Not trying to be mean at all... I just think you would come off as petty. If you need the money it might go over better to ask if she could give you something extra since you could not give your lesson.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

ponyboy said:


> I agree. These things should be clear beforehand. If you want to charge, change your boarding agreement for future clients. Not much you can do for your current situation.


This. ^^ Plus, from what you are saying you are not consistent in who you charge for what. You didn't charge for bringing in a new horse, but you want to charge for this 40 minutes of walking a horse that you use as much as the owner? Really makes no sense.

IMO you need to make a policy and stick to it. It does NOT have to be just for new boraders. You can give it to your current boarders in writing, amend their agreements, and be done with it. 

I have boarded a lot of places over the years, and there are very , very few that would have charged me for this. However-the one that would had a full page long price list....covered most things, and was part of the boarding agreement. It was a bit intimidating, including the late fees for board and the fact that after about a week late-they own your horse. :shock:

Mostly I have (and prefer to) board at places where everyone is there for the horses and helps each other out. just my preference.

Right now one of mine is with a well respected reining trainer. My friends horse just came back from another one. Neither one would even consider charging for this. Horse is groomed, clipped, bathed, in a heated stall, indoor arena and ridden an minimum of 4 times a week, for only $300 more than what I paid at the place that had "the list". You tell me where I would rather have my horse. And I now have someone to help me every time I ride my horse. Lessons EVERY TIME included! (One lesson at the other place was $55) No comparison.:wink:


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

You shouldn't charge anything at all. We horse people should stick together in situations like these. IMO, it would be wrong to try and profit off someones emergency situation. Let it go and hopefully if someone ever comes up on your horse in that shape and you aren't there that they will help you. 

As for the horse destroying property, well that is a totally different issue and should be dealt with seperatly from this one.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Keeping in mind that a boarding operation is a business, and your time is money I would think you need to decide what your cost and expected margin of return is for your various levels of boarding fees. If you weren't there, but an employee was, you would have to pay the employee. Generally speaking, the owner's time is more valuable than an employee's so it's still costing you money. From a busines stand point, I think it is a chargeable item - the question becomes: is it included in the monthly fees? That's when you need the contract and everyone's expectations to be clear. So maybe a standard contract would say that you or qualified staff will assist in emergency situations until the owner can get to the barn up to a maximu of "x" hours per month. Then define what are emergency situations. Also what your potential liability may or may not be -- ie. follow the owner's instructions #1, follow the vet's instructions #2, in case either is not available to the best of your ability but you're not liable because you are not a vet (unless you are, of course  )

I don't understand why so many people posted that they would consider a charge unreasonable. What does a boarding fee cover then? I have no experience with it, but my impression from others has been that boarding covers cost of "room and board" -- shelter and food. That doesn't include "care" to me. However, just like there can be "pasture board" vs. "shelter board", maybe there could be a "care board". Each would be at different pricing structures. 

If I were to run a barn, I would be quite clear on exactly what my contracts cover so no one can be surprised or insulted or feel like they have to offer extra. As best as possible, these scenarios need to be covered in advance.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Starline, I don't think you're an awful BO at all. Here's how I handle emergency things that come up. If you (the owner) caused it with neglect and ESPECIALLY if you want to be a cheap B*stard about it, I charge out the wazoo to make sure it hurts you plenty. 

For instance when I lived in Tucson I had a boarder who took his mare and gelding out and rode them until they were dripping and would come back home and turn them loose and not cool them out, rinse them off, make sure they drank, NOTHING. This is NOT the way I approve of taking care of horses and I let him know about it more than once. Every time this man rode, I was standing there to be his Juan and take his horses off to walk them out and rinse them down and make sure they got a good drink as they cooled out. He didn't pay a DIME for that service on top of his board, never even said thank you, but I felt for his horses. Well, his mare was a sweet little thing and older, I think 21 or so. One day I noticed she was off her feed and checked her water and she wasn't drinking either. I called him, got permission to call the vet and called the most expensive vet in the area. He was also the best, least nonsense about him vet in the area. The owner showed up talked about putting down a perfectly good mare that HE dehydrated **** near to death (it was August and 115 frickin degrees out) so that he wouldn't have to pay to hospitalize her. I talked to the vet and got him to give me the IV solutions and meds and hook me up with everything she needed. I then set myself up a cot and slept in front of that mare's stall and changed her IV's, gave her the electrolytes and meds to rehydrate her and get her going again for 1 solid week. She'd probably have only needed to be in an air conditioned vet hospital for a couple of days but out in my mare motel, no AC, no misters etc, she needed constant attention and monitoring. TRUST me, that man got a WHOPPER of a bill at the end of the month for the extensive nursing care that little mare needed. And the vet cut him no slack either. She came back and was ok but I really watched her close after that. By the way, he never visited her once during the illness, only after she was ridable again. Yep, I made THAT bill HURT. 

Now, someone who makes a mistake or out of not knowing or their horse just gets sick, I don't charge for the initial care. If I haul the horse to the vet, or if I have to change bandages or give meds a few times/day for a while if the owner cannot get out to do it or doesn't feel competent, then I charge. If I had a colicky horse and the owner said, call the vet and call me again if it's that bad and they didn't want to respond, it's THEIR horse and THEIR responsibility. At that point, I go on the clock and I'm not cheap. 

If the horse gets hurt on my fencing, then I look at my fencing and try to figure out what I can change so it doesn't happen again, but I don't charge to hold the horse for the vet. The first time the horse nailed me in the nose with his head would be the last day I tried to deworm him with a paste tube, I'd put the wormer in his food and eat it or not or deworm him yourself. My personal horses are not difficult like that and if I'm not being paid to train as well as deworm, it's your (the owner's) problem if he's a problem child. 

If he's difficult during lessons and your assistant runs the risk of being injured by him, I'd find another horse for my lesson program and the owner could pay full board. I guarantee you, if your assitant hurt that horse Pookie would become a Million Dollar Baby, and if Pookie hurt your assistant, it would be your liability not the owner's. Just my years of sometimes painful experience talking here. 

As far as walking a horse with colic, I don't. My vet says that unless they are literally thrashing, let them lay down and be quiet, it's better for them. If thrashing then he says to tranq them if possible, if not, load 'em up in the trailer and get them to the hospital. (I'm only 10 mins from the vet hospital, it's cheaper to pay me to haul them there for $50 round trip than the farm call from the vet $65.)


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

You guys are more than welcome to take a look at my website. I have a FAQ page for what stall boarding and pasture boarding includes, I have a Boarding Intro Packet with our general horse care philosophy, a price sheet, rules, boarding agreement, liability agreement, FAQ's... I also have a separate boarding agreement available to download. I also do a monthly e-newsletter to keep everyone informed at the barn.. rule changes.. upcoming events.. get feed back. Is there anything else I should be doing?

For this particular boarder, the last time I had to hold her horse for the vet (for 3+ hours until 12:30 at night) I told her that since it wasn't on the price list or discussed in detail I wouldn't charge her that time, but will in the future. My boarders already know I reserve the right to charge a hold fee for just one horse or for a naughty one. Multiples I won't. With all of that said, when you're sitting down to type out a price list or boarding agreement there is no possible way you can account for every situation. I started out with like 5 barn rules now I have 20. Sometimes you just have to handle things as they come.

To all of those that say "Do it out of the kindness of your heart, and they'll do the same for you" I really, really wish this were the case. I have one or two boarders out of 20 that would. This particular boarder I really like as a person, and she is a vet tech or use to be that is going back to school, but she hasn't been out to the barn in like 4 months.. she's just not in the position to do me any favors.

Franknbeans (still love that screen name!!) it makes perfect business sense to go pick up new boarders especially when they have two horses only 20 minutes away. ;o) I advertise this too up to a certain distance. I will certainly go pick up people that want to give me money lol.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

starlinestables said:


> Franknbeans (still love that screen name!!) it makes perfect business sense to go pick up new boarders especially when they have two horses only 20 minutes away. ;o) I advertise this too up to a certain distance. I will certainly go pick up people that want to give me money lol.


I too, will gladly go haul horses for my clients, but I have a minimum $50 hauling charge for short runs (Like to the vet and back) and I charge $2.25/loaded mile for long hauls. (I just went down to TX and hauled 3 horses up to US Nationals in Tulsa and will be hauling them back down to TX when Nationals is over. In that case I split the charge 3 ways, so .75/mi/horse.) I'll shortly be heading out to NM to pick up a boarder and bring her back to OK. She's going to pay $2.25/mi for one horse unless I can find another that needs to come this way. Dead heading out to NM will cost me but I'll make it up in good will if I can't find a horse or 2 that needs to go to NM.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

Dreamcatcher- Everything you've said I've done too.. Take care of horses when their retarded owners didn't.. multiple multiple times. Sometimes I feel like I could write a book. As for that guy that rode the crap out of their horse and didn't do any after care, after the 3rd time he did it I would've said I'm charging you next time via my standard of care agreement, this is why I feel its necessary and if you don't like it, I'll consider this your notice and continue you to charge you for the after care of your horse. 

The vet colic thing that you and another poster mentioned about not walking ect...I completely agree with you and is usually how I do it BUT, he laid down in his stall and tried to roll and got cast up against the stall door and luckily I was able to get out and up. Didn't have tranq on hand.. Just banamine.

On ordinary wounds (and this is in my contract) I will clean and treat the first time, notify you and then you are responsible for further treatment. If a wound needs treatment and you don't provide it, I'll do it an charge you for it anyway. Most of my policies are excusable with a vet note, so if a vet says it doesn't need it then I won't worry about it. So in a case of stitches, I will bring the horse up and hose the wound out, take pictures and txt them to the vet and the owner. Call the vet and then call the owner to confirm. If a wound is bleeding heavily I will apply a pressure wrap. During regular business hours, I would put the horse in a stall or leave in the cross ties until the vet gets there and go about my business. For suspected colic, I bring the horse in, take its vitals, I call and txt the owner twice before I give iv meds. To me, usual protocol means NOT WALKING the horse as others have stated.. I consider walking an extra. Obviously this varies a bit on the situation. After 8pm I charge a holding fee per hour. Also in my boarding agreement, I have multiple sections regarding vet care and how far they are willing to let me go to treat a horse. Because I'm well versed in horse care, first aid and have several medications on hand I'm usually able to save boarders money on vet calls and procedures like IV shots, eye stains, flushing tear ducts, flexion tests, hoof testing, hoof abscesses, ect.. With regards to the horse yesterday, I saved her another vet call and of course the cost of the vet administering the same medications I already have.


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## Sophie19 (Apr 13, 2009)

If it was my horse and you didn't walk him but left him to roll around hand hurt himself more, I would leave your barn and you would never get another dime of my money. Boarders trust you with the care of their animals and their well being should be your number one concern. If I was the person with the lesson scheduled and you gave me a lesson instead of caring for the horse I would have also been upset. In fact I would not be willing to ride if a collicing horse was left unattended because of it. Money is important in this economy. Thats fine. But if your not going to care for a sick horse, you will soon find yourself with boarders leaving, and how much money will you make from them then?


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

starlinestables said:


> Dreamcatcher- Everything you've said I've done too.. Take care of horses when their retarded owners didn't.. multiple multiple times. Sometimes I feel like I could write a book.



*That's your job!* That is why they pay you! 

In the past I have thought that I would not board with you (you are not in my area so it is not an issue) but you went through a stage a while ago of wanting to nickle and dime your boarders while sharing stories about them. You have been better lately and not done this, however your latest statement 'retarded boarders' puts me right back. 





starlinestables said:


> The horse... not so much. We use him in our lesson program (for a discount on board) but he is always doing something asinine. He's ripped down our fence (including 2 cemented in pipe stretcher posts) 3 times. He has random bouts of head shyness and the next thing you know you have a bloody nose because he whacks you in the face. He also ran over my assistant while trying to chase off another horse. Deworming him isn't pleasant either.. imagine running backwards, rearing ect... A few months ago he managed to cut his face and needed stitches. I was there till 12:30 at night (owner was not) and didn't charge her. He generally doesn't appreciate needles or stuff being sprayed on his wounds. So I have to ask myself, when is enough, enough?


This is totally irrelevant to the colic situation. You cannot hold a grudge against the horse because it gets ill.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Starline, I think you should get completely out of the boarding business. 

From this thread and your many previous posts, I get the feeling that you despise your boarders, consider the horses a bother, and are in it only to squeeze as much money as you can out of people.

I suggest you raze your barn and set up a commuter parking lot. That way, you can make money and won't have to bother with people or their annoying animals. After all, vehicles don't need any personal attention, just a parking space.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I only read the first page before typing my response. Just want to say I don't think you should charge anything. If you reschedule the lesson you don't loose the money. People are paying you to care for their horses and they are trusting you with them. To many people it's like daycare for their children. They expect their children to be cared for and the booboos to be kissed away. 

I don't like the idea of you charging to walk a horse for one hour. That's my opinion. What would have done had she said she couldn't make it out there until the next day or later in the evening? People board for the convenience of knowing their animal will be cared for.

Would you have refused to help the horse? Not called a vet? That would have been negligent in my opinion.....


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## Buckcherry (Nov 18, 2010)

Say you were a boarding, and your had a job where you couldn't come out in a moments notice, or you lived far away or were on vacation wouldn't you want someone you trust to take care of your horse and not nickle and dime you for something that you couldn't have prevented. some horses tend to be accident and colic prone and we should not punish the horse owner because of it. 

There are just somethings you should do out of the goodness of your heart.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I have to say, that I would pack up and move out of a facility, if it were ran the way you run things Starline. One of the biggest issues I have, is that you post frequently on an open forum, about your boarders and issues. 

I would fire you so quickly if I found out you were talking about myself, my horse, or friends of mine, on the internet. Very unprofessional.

Secondly, there should be no charge for walking a horse who is colicing. Using the excuse that you had to do everything by yourself and build everything from the ground up yourself, is not an excuse at all. You CHOSE to do this, you DECIDED to fork out your money to establish a facility, that you can run/own and make money off of. YOUR choice. 

I board at a very large barn, with 2 barns full, and pasture board full. This place has 40+ horses, and do you think the BO charges to walk a colicy horse? No. She doesn't even charge to soak a boarders horses feet, who has abcesses.

She is always full, the facility has a fabulous reputation and is very well known, because of how professional she is, her responsibility, and she doesn't rip off her clients.

She is appreciated, well liked and well known. It isn't because I am lucky to be at a place like this, it is because that is how things are done. Where in your case, it is unfortunate that boarders end up in pradicaments such as being a boarder at your facility.

I think you need to rethink how you run things, and charge your boarders. Maybe the reason why you have so many issues, isn't because of your boarders - but maybe it's you? 

I don't know, but I'll repeat myself - I am very glad, I don't board at your place.


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

I would not charge.

My horse ran through a fence last month. She broke a board, was given pain killers, had the vet look her over(he was already at the barn), she was put on antibiotics, and was on stall rest for a night(We use pasture board).
I was not charged for anything.

Should I have been? Yes. I offered to pay, but they wouldn't accept.
To them, it was an accident that no one could have prevented(a donkey spooked her while she was in the feeding pen.)


I love my barn dearly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

Nickle and Diming Boarders - My facility offers the best value in our area. I moved things to an a la cart method so that easy keeping horses paid less and hard keepers paid more because that's what is the most fair. However, for the high maintenance horses, I'm still one of the cheaper facilities in the area. This is a business.. I have to make money to feed my family. My barn is full, and the only complaint I have right now is that my indoor isn't finished yet.

Saving boarders money -If you think I nickle and dime that's fine..but I'm the only facility out of hundreds in my area that offers awesome savings options. #1 feed coupons. I've had boarders save $10-$100 off their board last month because I accept feed coupons. I save on feed and I pass the savings onto them.
#2 Referrals- I give boarders $100 off their board and a friend $100 they refer that boards with me. I also give $25 credits for referring lesson students.
#3 Lesson Horse Program - I give $5 off their board for every lesson their horse is used in. Its completely voluntary and they know that our lesson horses are taken care of extremely well.
#4 Points - Boarders and Students can sign up for odd jobs around the barn to earn points towards lessons or $ off their board. odd jobs consist of grooming, oiling tack, painting fences/jumps, picking up odd rocks in the pasture, lunging school horses ect... Not only to boarders save money it keeps my facility and horses at it's best.

Retarded Boarders- They exist. Am I not supposed to say that? Luckily I don't have any right now but I certainly have in the past. 

Online forum posts - I don't post anything I wouldn't want anyone else to see.. I don't mind if my boarders read this. How do I improve my business if I don't ask? Not to mention who are you going to flame if I'm not here? Gotta keep things interesting around here! ;o) I love a good debate. I'm always fascinated by the different responses I get especially from forum to forum.


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## ichliebepferde (Sep 8, 2011)

I, also wouldn't charge. There are a lot of things I do for poeple's horses, just out of the goodness of my heart. Saving a horse is better than making $40 dollars. Saving the horse is my forty dollars. hehe


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## Courtney (May 20, 2011)

If I was you, I wouldn't charge. Sometimes, it happens that horses colic when the owner isn't around. I know time is money, but sometimes... courtesy is more valuable. The fact that you spent an hour working with this horse will resonate with the owner and the good karma could be returned by way of new boarders or lesson students. You might have lost $40 on this horse, but you could make hundreds of dollars due to positive referrals from your boarder.

If I was in the situation of your boarder, I would be completely grateful that you took the time to walk my horse and keep her from doing further damage. Even if you didn't charge, I would feel obligated to help out and repay the favor. Maybe it's just me, but I'd be in that barn mucking stalls, measuring feed, haying horses... anything I could do to make your life easier because you helped save my horse. 

A business is a business, but when you get down to it, people are the center of your business. Without them, you wouldn't have a business. You need to retain that customer loyalty, or it won't matter that your services are among the lowest - people do not like being nickle-and-dimed at every turn.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

starlinestables said:


> Just curious, in case of future colic: If a horse colics at 3 pm, and an owner doesn't get off til 5pm and says she'll be there after work. Do you think they should be charged?


I am fortunate that all of my boarders would leave work to come out.

I would not charge for an acute situation. Chronic stall rest that needed to be handed walked daily, etc - then there would be charges.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

I cannot believe you only pay $5 to use someone else's horse in a lesson.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

When all my stalls are done and full, I will make $16 a head off of boarding. I do it because #1 the love of horses and #2 I will make substantially more in 5 years when most of my start up costs are gone. I'm 25 and have $11,000 + in barn bills... a MONTH and that's with building everything ourselves.

Each month I probably spend a absolute minimum of an hour a month. That's on the easy keepers that never have anything wrong with them. On farrier days, I hike across 60 acres to catch and hold for the farrier.. I will typically groom them/flyspray while they are being done. God only knows how much time I spend emailing and talking to boarders about questions or concerns they may have. I'm constantly inspecting suspicious bumps, scratches, poo.. you name it.. for free because i do consider most of that to be my job. Again for a $16 profit. 

Holy cow I'm rolling in the money aren't I! Each month I take all those nickles and dimes.. pour them on my bed and roll in it because I'm soooo in it for the money! lol ;oP


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

starlinestables said:


> Each month I probably spend a absolute minimum of an hour a month. That's on the easy keepers that never have anything wrong with them. On farrier days, I hike across 60 acres to catch and hold for the farrier.. I will typically groom them/flyspray while they are being done. God only knows how much time I spend emailing and talking to boarders about questions or concerns they may have. I'm constantly inspecting suspicious bumps, scratches, poo.. you name it.. for free because i do consider most of that to be my job.


Your choice. Complaining isn't going to make it any easier.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

They get $5 and their horse taken care of and handled otherwise the only human interaction some of them would get is feeding every day and the farrier every 6 weeks. We groom them, goop up scratch marks, fly spray, bath them, clip them if needed. Students bring them treats...braid they're manes and tails. They also get tuned up by me. Not to mention they get to add lesson horse to their resume if they ever need to be sold.


bubba13 said:


> I cannot believe you only pay $5 to use someone else's horse in a lesson.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

bubba13 said:


> I cannot believe you only pay $5 to use someone else's horse in a lesson.


Well - I don't pay my boarders anything to use their horses as lesson horses. But then they don't have to pay me for the teaching, training, grooming, etc their horse gets as a result of using the horse.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

mls said:


> Your choice. Complaining isn't going to make it any easier.


I don't complain (not that often anyway). Just providing more prospective into the life of a barn owner.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Since you only feed once a day, per your FAQ sheet, I'm going to raise the supposition that it's your own fault the boarder's horse colicked.

What responsible, intelligent BO/BM doesn't feed at LEAST twice a day, since you should have an idea how a horse's digestive system works? :?

I don't know about anyone else, but $400.00 month PLUS all the extras you're sticking to your boarders in ridiculous 'fees', is hardly what I'd call inexpensive.

FYI, mls IS a barn owner with actual boarders, and horses _she_ doesn't seem to mind caring for properly.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

Speed Racer said:


> Since you only feed once a day, per your FAQ sheet, I'm going to raise the supposition that it's your own fault the boarder's horse colicked.
> 
> What responsible, intelligent BO/BM doesn't feed at LEAST twice a day, since you should have an idea how a horse's digestive system works? :?
> 
> ...


Speed Racer - Take a chill pill. You are being rude. Please don't skim over FAQ's and then go off half cocked. I explain how and why I do everything. $400 in my area for what I provide is inexpensive. Please do you're research first. I never said anything about MLS... I'm fully aware that she is a barn owner.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

starlinestables said:


> They get $5 and their horse taken care of and handled otherwise the only human interaction some of them would get is feeding every day and the farrier every 6 weeks. We groom them, goop up scratch marks, fly spray, bath them, clip them if needed. Students bring them treats...braid they're manes and tails. They also get tuned up by me. Not to mention they get to add lesson horse to their resume if they ever need to be sold.


Here is the SAME point I brought up in my earlier post. And-this is your second post today referring to all the great extra care the boarder horses get who are used for lessons. As I said earlier, this IS one of the horses you use for lessons. All of a sudden not worth the extra care? Doesn't make sense, and it seems to me that you sort of talk out of both sides of your face on the wonderful extra care they get, when the rubber actually meets the road and they actually are in NEED of something.:evil: I am also baffled by you saying you have to walk all over to catch and hold for the farrier-you don;t charge for that? To me that would make MUCH more sense. People can plan ahead, and if they can't be there, they pay. 

PS Just looked at your sight. Your bookeeping has got to be a nightmare! I have never ever seen food priced per lb, nor a limit on shavings. If you are so cost conscious why are you buying bags? Wouldn't loads be cheaper? Your farrier-at least for what I am used to -VERY cheap. And to include catch and hold? Anyway-I have no idea what your market is, but you sure seem to be making your life much more difficult with all of that counting feed and shavings crap. :roll:


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

@Starline, I tried to look at your site but couldn't get it to load properly, so guess I can't give you any insight there. 

But I think at this point, you'd be better off just dropping the subject, it's starting to look like no matter what you say to whom someone is going to take offense and will decide you're wrong. BTDT too!


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

starlinestables said:


> When all my stalls are done and full, I will make $16 a head off of boarding.



One of the things I was surprised to learn when I started coming to this forum was that boarding makes hardly any money. Every time someone asks for advice on starting a boarding stable, that's what they get told. My cousin's boyfriend wanted to do it - until he sat down and crunched the numbers that is. I don't think it would be worth it, myself.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

starlinestables said:


> We groom them, goop up scratch marks, fly spray, bath them, clip them if needed..



So you should...after all YOU are using their horse and not having to go out and pay for one.





starlinestables said:


> They also get tuned up by me. Not to mention they get to add lesson horse to their resume if they ever need to be sold.



As far as this part putting this on a resume to sell a horse.....that would send me running the other way in a hurry.

A lesson horse to me is LESS valuable than a privately owned one as heaven only know who rode it. Maybe some beginner that ruined it entirely.:evil:

I would also point out and I think I had done so before..I agree with MIE and would never ever want to board at any stable that discusses their boarders,horses or situations on a public horse forum. 

To me that is an invasion of MY privacy.


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## Gremmy (Feb 17, 2009)

I've worked for barns from 5 horses to 70, and I've never seen anyone charge for an emergency situation like that. It kind of comes with the territory. I understand you are trying to run a business, but I think you need to take a close look at your pricing. There's nothing wrong with "nickle-and-diming" in theory, it's something I've looked into myself. The problem is that it results in a very rigid system and when presented with "gray area" situations like this, it tends to fall apart. If that's the way you want to do it, then you need to write out _every concievable scenario_ and put a price tag on it. Another problem is with a system like that, boarders may have a tendency to pick and choose what they want to pay for - one of the barns I worked at tried to put in blanketing policy, but it fell apart as many boarders would severely overblanket their horses but not sign up for blanketing, and the BO would remove the blankets to avoid a medical situation but couldn't demand a charge for the work (even if she paid me - she had to take the hit). The only options would have been to walk away and allow the situation to turn into heatstroke or worse, make blanketing/removal mandatory and part of the overall board agreement (include it in the total board price), or simply keep doing it for free.

That last scenario is why I don't like the "nickle-and-dime" structure. It's fine in a business that doesn't involve living animals but unless you're willing to walk away from a severe medical incident due to a boarder who won't want to pay (and I don't consider that an option, and frankly you may want to consider a non-animal involved business venture if you do), you're going to run into problems (you could do it for free, but lord help you if you charge another boarder down the road for the same thing...) If it is specifically in your board agreement with an estimated price figure (either hourly or other) then fine, but be very careful about coming up with random pricing to difficult scenarios.

What I would advise is that you look at your finances and how you've determined what to charge for boarding. I've always found boarding works best on a cost-based system, that is cover your costs first - and these costs _must_ be detailed, not just the fixed but the variable costs need to be estimated as well - , as well as your salary and profit margin, and factor in what is charged elsewhere in your area to come to what you charge for board. Things like broken fencing and emergency care factor in as a variable cost - do some homework, look at records, and figure out how much you're paying on average for these things - speak to other BOs and ask how much these things cost them each year. Just like you would set aside money for unexpected vet bills with one horse, you do this for a business as well. Factor an estimated sum for these variable costs and include them in your board - if there is a surplus at the end of the year, put it towards facility improvements, boarder credits, a fun event, whatever. If you've estimated far too much you can adjust accordingly, and if you've had a run of bad luck you're not completely screwed. The key is to cover all costs including your pay and startup debt without creating a price so high that nobody will board there. Unfortunately there is very very little profit in boarding, you are better off trying to break even with the board and hopefully take home a small profit, and making your living with lessons and training.

If this horse in particular is a constant problem then you need to have a sit down with the owner. A dangerous horse is a dangerous horse and your staff have the right to refuse to handle him - the owner can either train him, pay you or another trainer to train him, negotiate a way to keep him there with minimal handling and an action plan worked out _in writing_ as to what will be done in an emergency situation where he will need to be handled (IE you having authority to call in the vet and authorise treatment up to a certain amount, to agreed upon sum, etc in order to get the horse treated as quickly as possible to minimize handling), or she can find another place to board. In terms of property damage, horses break stuff. I only see it appropriate to charge a boarder for it if it becomes a chronic issue - IE a horse that is underworked/overgrained at the owner's insistence and destroying their stall, or any other issue where the horse is simply causing damage on such a routine basis that special (costly) preventative measures may need to be implemented to deal with that one horse.

Best of luck with your facility, boarding isn't for the faint of heart and as they say, if you want to make a million dollars with horses, start out with two million :lol:


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

@ Gremmy-if this horse is "dangerous", I doubt it would be used as a school horse. The behavior Starline has described is nothing more than a bit of bad behavior, which, quite frankly, could most likely be corrected in a very short time by someone who took 5 minutes and a rope halter to teach the horse not to be pushy, which is what it sounds like to me. BReaking a part of the fence-well, could happen to any horse any day.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

starlinestables said:


> When all my stalls are done and full, I will make $16 a head off of boarding. I do it because #1 the love of horses and #2 I will make substantially more in 5 years when most of my start up costs are gone. I'm 25 and have $11,000 + in barn bills... a MONTH and that's with building everything ourselves.


Do you have a business degree or have you taken any business courses? Because it seems to me you should realize that you can't reasonably expect boarders to assume the fixed costs of _your_ improvements, and thus "punish" them for every little transgression, like a sick horse. That's not how the business world works, and that's not how you tally profits or losses.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

How have your boarders not discovered these threads anyway, with your username clearly showing the barn name? I agree with others about the online stuff, it would really hurt my feelings to find something like this posted on a forum about me from my barn owner :-( ...and would make me put my 30 days in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## outnabout (Jul 23, 2010)

starlinestables said:


> To clarify further: the impression I got from the phone call was "walk him, call me if it's really bad"...
> 
> Just curious, in case of future colic: If a horse colics at 3 pm, and an owner doesn't get off til 5pm and says she'll be there after work. Do you think they should be charged?


In my opinion, the owner should have said "I will be there as soon as I can; what is the charge per hour to walk him?...Thanks"
If one of my horses colicks I expect a phone call and I will leave my job to deal with the situation. In my mind it is as if my child has appendicitis... it is an emergency situation since it could result in death, and I want to be there to deal with it myself. I can't imagine staying at work, worrying about whether or not my horse has twisted its gut...
Most barn managers will do what is necessary in such a situation, but the boarder should at least offer to pay for walking.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

outnabout said:


> it is an emergency situation since it could result in death, and I want to be there to deal with it myself. I can't imagine staying at work, worrying about whether or not my horse has twisted its gut...


 Did you read the OP? The boarder was there in 40 minutes. To get there so fast, I imagine they left wherever they were immediately. Yes Starline walked the horse for 1 hour, however when the boarder got the call she got there in 40 mins - short of teleporting, I don't think she could have done very much more. 


Starline your overhead costs are so high, and your profit so low because you are investing in your future. Your place is absolutely beautiful and there are not many people your age who could afford something like that. You can, because you have mortgaged it to the hilt (based on $16 per head profit and $11k monthly bills), that was your choice. You chose to buy somewhere so nice, you could have got something smaller and worked your way up to the place you have now.


SR is not going off half cocked, your information is out there for anyone to see. You feed once a day unless your boarders pay extra for twice a day feeding. You say repeatedly that you are the cheapest barn in your area, so you know you are attracting people who potentially have less disposable income. 

My horse is nothing special, and I would never want him used in a lesson program - nor would I EVER buy a former lesson horse for myself. Maybe if I ever have kids I would for them, but never for me. That is certainly not a selling point, and is quite the opposite. 


Let me ask you this, if this boarder refuses to pay for something that is not in her contract, what will you do if the horse colics again next month? Will you just leave it for the 40 mins it will take her to get there? 

You already said that you would have hung around if the horse was still in trouble after she arrived - so this is not about your time. This is about how much extra money you can get. 





starlinestables said:


> Each month I probably spend a absolute minimum of an hour a month. That's on the easy keepers that never have anything wrong with them. On farrier days, I hike across 60 acres to catch and hold for the farrier.. I will typically groom them/flyspray while they are being done. God only knows how much time I spend emailing and talking to boarders about questions or concerns they may have. I'm constantly inspecting suspicious bumps, scratches, poo.. you name it.. for free because i do consider most of that to be my job. Again for a $16 profit.


My dear this is your job! This is what they pay you for, and this is the job that you chose to do. 
If my barn owner was on an internet board complaining about doing her job, I would find a new barn. 

So many of your posts here have been about how much to charge people, and I can understand that as you are new to the business - but there is a fair chunk of your questions have been about how to nickle and dime your boarders so that you can secure your future. 
I clearly remember you wanting to charge your boarders more so you could save for an indoor arena, that still isn't up and useable - even though it was April when you were talking about charging them more. 
Also you have gone to a 6 day stall cleaning schedule to save yourself money. 



I wonder if you have researched turnaround time of boarders at your competitors barns and done a comparison? I think if you did this, it might be very telling!


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

Wow. This thread got a lot more complicated than it had to!

First off guys, my boarders are completely aware of how I handle things. They all know that we are building a business from the ground up and that we are constantly making improvements. They know that I have a 3 year old and I don't live at the barn right now. We are there almost every day, my dad lives on-site in a trailer and I pay him to watch my son when I'm there. We are in the process of getting a house built out there now. 

When new boarders come in, I sit down with them and go over the boarding agreement, barn rules, price sheet, and liability waivers. I tell them what exactly is included in the boarding fee and why. When I go over first aid and prices I tell them what I will do and what will cost extra. I tell them that some of the first aid prices are variable.. may be more or less but to keep in mind that 8 times out of 10 I'm able to save them an emergency vet visit at which point they agree and are grateful.This is where I add in that in the 3 years I've been open, I've only had 5 instances where stitches were needed (4 were on the same two horses who get into EVERYTHING) and only 2 colics. Neither colic was something barn management related.. 1 was a lipoma and the other was the one we are talking about and that's from the pain of cutting his leg. I also explain to them that if they require stalls rest or something that is out of they're budget, that they can pay the extra over another month or two OR they can work some off if they'd like. My boarders know that I will take care of their horses regardless. No complaints there.

The original question was "What amount is fair for walking a horse for an hour?" Not how I should charge for farrier holding instead or charge more for other things or how I'm horrible person for whatever reason. However, I'm more than happy to address your "concerns" about my business so your unfounded comments are left to stew for future boarders to make the same assumptions.

Speed Racer - I include up to 4 lbs fed once daily because only 2 horses out of 25 eat more than 4lbs. They get a diet based on grass and hay which is how it should be. Horses that eat more than that are fed equally twice a day. By doing it this way, majority of my boarders pay way less. The horse colicked due to pain from the leg wound the day before. He gets free choice hay and 2.5lbs of horseman's edge 12:6 a day with a vitamin supplement so your assumptions were uttlery wrong. 

Franknbeans- Lesson horses do get extra care which I explained earlier. Just because they are used in lessons, doesn't mean they are exempt from extra charges. I clearly explain this to my boarders. No complaints.
My billing isn't difficult. There is a great online scheduling and invoicing service called SimplifyThis.com. Invoices automatically go out on the same day every month and it automatically includes previous balances and credits as well as any extra charges. If a boarder wants me to give their horse bute, I pull up the SimplifyThis iphone app and quickly add the charge and I'm done. Don't have to look at it again. I highly recommend this service. Boarders can look up their accounts and order services online as well.

Spyder - I agree that I should see that lesson horses are well taken care of before and after lessons. I also do this with tack that I barrow. (Yes, if someone has a saddle that they let me use in lessons then I not only give them money off their board, I clean and oil it too). I own 5 lesson horses and there are 4 or 5 boarders that participate in the lesson program. Typically the owners of these horses don't come out often. I did IHSA and learned a lot from the many many different horses that I had to ride and its nice for students to have the opportunity to ride several horses too. The horses that participate in the program would indeed consider it a beneficial addition to their resume because they are obviously not high dollar, grand prix dressage horses. The horse market stinks but kid safe horses or safe for beginner/intermediate riders ARE holding they're value better than most. I'm not going to stick a dead beginner on someones competition horse. But if the owner says he can be used for riders who can jump 2' that's what we'll do. I'm not in the business of ruining horses.:wink: How can you flame me for using a public forum for it's designated purpose? It's not like I'm using names of my boarders or their horses. If a boarder reads this, they already know exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not ashamed at all by anything I write. My boarders know me and generally appreciate my honesty and openness. I was asking a question to make sure I wasn't gouging a boarder or asking to less for my time. I'm being flamed for trying to be fair to myself and my boarder?

Gremmy & Bubba - I have a BA in Equine Studies. I wanted to go for my PhD in Equine Nutrition in colorado but met the hubby and started a barn instead. I'm well versed in Equine nutrition, farrier science, anatomy/physiology/conformation and stable/pasture management. I took a regular business class in college and an equine business class. I worked in various barns for the last 10 years although it was more of the grunt work or training side of things where we didn't deal a lot with customers. I also subscribe to several business blogs and newsletters.. many of them equine business related. Was a paid member of EquestrianProfessional.com for a while.. Great site by the way.. lots of awesome teleseminars. Thanks to the IRS and their love of auditing horse business I'm well versed in agricultrual tax laws too. Which I was actually complimented on by the agent who audited me how well my "horsey"business was organized.


I appreciate almost* everyone's input. To speed racer and others that took to time to even half way try to visit my website so that they could better understand the situation.. I truely appreciate it. Even though Speed Racer was particularly rude, it gives me valuable feed back on how I can better answer "FAQ" and organize them so people take the time to read the correct information. If you had trouble viewing my site, its not IExplorer friendly for some reason.. try firefox, safari or chrome. I tried very hard on that site but alas, I'm not a web developer. ;oP


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

AlexS said:


> Did you read the OP? The boarder was there in 40 minutes. To get there so fast, I imagine they left wherever they were immediately. Yes Starline walked the horse for 1 hour, however when the boarder got the call she got there in 40 mins - short of teleporting, I don't think she could have done very much more.
> 
> 
> Starline your overhead costs are so high, and your profit so low because you are investing in your future. Your place is absolutely beautiful and there are not many people your age who could afford something like that. You can, because you have mortgaged it to the hilt (based on $16 per head profit and $11k monthly bills), that was your choice. You chose to buy somewhere so nice, you could have got something smaller and worked your way up to the place you have now.
> ...


The boarder didn't leave the second she got the message about the colic. She basically said call me if he looks like he's gonna die or need something ungodly expensive.

I have a chart of 50+ area boarding facilities, their prices and what they offer. I've done my research. My boarders are not the bottom of the barrel but most aren't ungodly rich either. The once a day feeding and stall cleaning 6 days a week were to save THEM money so they can stay at a facility they trust and enjoy an indoor arena. Since I've made the switch, I've welcomed 10 new (awesome) boarders. I try to treat people the way I want to be treated. I pay them for their time, supplies, referrals. If they clean their horses stall before we do (something i used to do out of the kindness of my heart and love for my horse when I was a border) I give them a break on board or points towards lessons.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

starlinestables said:


> The boarder didn't leave the second she got the message about the colic. She basically said call me if he looks like he's gonna die or need something ungodly expensive.


You said that she was there within 40 minutes. She might not have left immediately, but she got there pretty darn quickly. My last job was a one hour commute away - it would have taken me at least 1hr 15 to get myself to my barn had I needed to. 



starlinestables said:


> The once a day feeding and stall cleaning 6 days a week were to save THEM money so they can stay at a facility they trust and enjoy an indoor arena.


You can present it that way, but I recall you saying that you were going to 6 day stall cleaning because your assistant could not clean them 7 days a week - and that your time was more important because you could earn more teaching. 
Going to a 6 day stall cleaning did not save your boarders money, as they did not get a reduction in board, it just preventing them for paying more for your time for a service they had been receiving. 

This is my last post in this thread, because it appears that you did not want opinions on whether you should charge for the service, you just wanted $$ amounts and for everyone to agree with you. 

As your time is so important and you are not interested in hearing opinions that differ from your own - I did the math for you. 

32 different people responded to your thread. 

Of which:
8 were on the fence about charging, or did not make it clear. 

5 did not pass an opinion but talked about related things

2 people said the boarder should pay

17 said no the boarder should not be charged. 


I think that speaks for itself.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

AlexS.. I hope I didn't come off rude in my last post. I've (we've both) already spent way to much time on this as it is. Thanks for your help with the "math".. it isn't quite that clean cut as I've posted in barn owner/business favoring forums too. Obviously horseforum is going to be more boarders (which is why i like it! that and it moves much faster).


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

This makes me so happy that my horses are at home with me.

My personal opinion is that it is disgusting that you are even considering charging for something like this. 

I won't get in to my opinion on the rest of your 'business'.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> How have your boarders not discovered these threads anyway, with your username clearly showing the barn name? I agree with others about the online stuff, it would really hurt my feelings to find something like this posted on a forum about me from my barn owner :-( ...and would make me put my 30 days in.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why? I didn't say anything bad about her. I like her and her horse (most days on the horse lol) a lot! I'm not flaming her at all. I'm 99% ok with her even if she didn't show at all. In fact I'm complimented by the fact that she trusted me enough to handle her horse with out her there. Would it have been something I would have done? No.. but I'm not blaming her for it either.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

starlinestables said:


> AlexS.. I hope I didn't come off rude in my last post. I've (we've both) already spent way to much time on this as it is. Thanks for your help with the "math".. it isn't quite that clean cut as I've posted in barn owner/business favoring forums too. Obviously horseforum is going to be more boarders (which is why i like it! that and it moves much faster).


Keep in mind that even tho the majority of the people who responded are boarders, they could also be called "customers." It is our type who actually PAY you. Other BO's on other forums....ummmmm-not so much.:wink:


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

starlinestables said:


> Why? I didn't say anything bad about her. I like her and her horse (most days on the horse lol) a lot! I'm not flaming her at all. I'm 99% ok with her even if she didn't show at all. In fact I'm complimented by the fact that she trusted me enough to handle her horse with out her there. Would it have been something I would have done? No.. but I'm not blaming her for it either.


I was referring more to the retarded boarders comments than the originally posted issue.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

ponyboy said:


> One of the things I was surprised to learn when I started coming to this forum was that boarding makes hardly any money. Every time someone asks for advice on starting a boarding stable, that's what they get told. My cousin's boyfriend wanted to do it - until he sat down and crunched the numbers that is. I don't think it would be worth it, myself.


I think it truly depends on how you do the boarding. In good stables - yes. Maintenance of the horse/farm is very costly (I keep mine home, so expenses are all on my own shoulders and I'm very aware of course :wink: ). However I know couple in my area that just throw 50 horses on same field and either leave them on grass or buy old moldy cow hay (not sure they buy it even - may be just given for free based on the quality). No grain. No fence maintenance. No grass seeding. Yeah, those I think make a pretty good profit charging $200 - 250/horse a month (especially given a fact how much money then one of the owners spends in casino).

To the original question (leaving all drama behind) yes, I don't think charge should be in place as long as border tried to make it there as soon as possible (and it sounds like a case indeed). I've never heard any place around here would charge for the true emergency. It's part of the job, you know. Things happen and when horse is boarded it's in your possession (in some way).


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

bubba13 said:


> Do you have a business degree or have you taken any business courses? Because it seems to me you should realize that you can't reasonably expect boarders to assume the fixed costs of _your_ improvements, and thus "punish" them for every little transgression, like a sick horse. That's not how the business world works, and that's not how you tally profits or losses.


This is a good point, to me it feels like you are chasing your tail with your expenses all the time and that is always going to be a losing battle, both for you AND for your clients. Financially speaking, it is actually the an erroneous assumption to try and cover the fixed costs of a project with existing boarding fees. 

In project analysis *sunk costs should be ignored* and only incremental cash flows are used to calculate project feasibility. Not total cash flows mind you, incremental cash flows is income that is altered _as a result of the project itself_. 

So in the case of you indoor you would ignore its initial cost and calculate the _incremental_ cash flows as a result of building it. Sounds strange but it is true. They may be positive numbers (it attracts _more_ boarders than you had before you offer it for hire) or negative numbers (additional maintanance costs) but you account for all the changes over the years, discount them at an appropriate rate (i.e. what % return do you expect from the project) and THEN see if the project is a profitable one or not. The initial cost of your building is accounted for in your yearly accounting procedures and depreciated accordingly.

To build it before this type of analysis is done and then try to cover its initial cost with the same business model is backwards and I am afraid that you will put yourself in a difficult position, always trying to make a buck here or there because your business model is flawed.

Is it impossible? No. It just means that you are fighting a little blindly right now and for the first few years it may be difficult to meet those costs. 

Secondly, I understand that you canceled a lesson (which you rescheduled too I think?) but to some degree your job as an instructor is completely separate from your job as a BO. The two will not always mesh and your BO duties will come first in the end because they relate to the basic care, safety and well being of your charges. The instructing gig is really just extra cash and as nice as that is, there isn't a life or death element (usually) to giving a lesson.

Being a BO is a huge responsibility and often a thankless task but it is one that you chose to take on. If you don't like doing it for the people as it seems you don't, do it for the horses. You surely wouldn't be doing what you are doing now if you didn't have a passion for horses.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

While I would not charge for an emergency situation and probably would be irritated if I was charged when I was making a true effort to get to my horse in a time of need...I think you need look at how much you charge to catch hold for the farrier and make the walking charge comparable to the farrier charge, they both took about the same amount of time. You could then make this your going rate for all "extras".
I am a private estate manager, while I get a set salary, I have spent many a night sleeping in the isle in all kinds of weather asking family and friends for help walking, soaking, bandaging etc. Never has there been even a thank you.
The owners actually look at me as if I am crazy for doing this.


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## onetoomany (Dec 10, 2008)

starlinestables said:


> Saving boarders money -If you think I nickle and dime that's fine..but I'm the only facility out of hundreds in my area that offers awesome savings options. #1 feed coupons. I've had boarders save $10-$100 off their board last month because I accept feed coupons. I save on feed and I pass the savings onto them.
> #2 Referrals- I give boarders $100 off their board and a friend $100 they refer that boards with me. I also give $25 credits for referring lesson students.
> #3 Lesson Horse Program - I give $5 off their board for every lesson their horse is used in. Its completely voluntary and they know that our lesson horses are taken care of extremely well.
> #4 Points - Boarders and Students can sign up for odd jobs around the barn to earn points towards lessons or $ off their board. odd jobs consist of grooming, oiling tack, painting fences/jumps, picking up odd rocks in the pasture, lunging school horses ect... Not only to boarders save money it keeps my facility and horses at it's best.


Maybe if you cut your 'promotions' down, you wouldn't find yourself in the position where you think you need to charge money for walking a colicking horse? I personally would be very leery of any barn that has promotions like these. For one they are a good indicator that your business is struggling. Also, big chain stores can afford to do promotions and coupons. Small businesses generally cannot afford to do things like this. The amount it costs for you to buy all the necessaries as far as taking care of horses stays the same whether you have rocks in your pasture or no rocks in your pasture. When you get a new boarder for a referral- your margin is still $16/head but you give a referral discount? That just doesn't make sense. I would personally cut promotions like this. 
Yes it is nice to show appreciation but have a stinking barn dance or trail ride. Put the money you save from these into making your facility better and making your care of the horses better. Maybe then you won't find yourself asking strangers on the internet whether you should charge money for walking a colicking horse.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

starlinestables said:


> The vet colic thing that you and another poster mentioned about not walking ect...I completely agree with you and is usually how I do it BUT, he laid down in his stall and tried to roll and got cast up against the stall door and luckily I was able to get out and up. Didn't have tranq on hand.. Just banamine.


You never tranq a colic case! The gut isn't reacting correctly. A tranq is a depressant and will only further slow the gut!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

mls said:


> You never tranq a colic case! The gut isn't reacting correctly. A tranq is a depressant and will only further slow the gut!


MLS, she took that from my comment to her, from what my vet has told me in cases where the horse is thrashing violently and needs to be able to be gotten onto a trailer and hauled into the vet hospital. She wasn't saying she did that routinely. She was responding to this:

"As far as walking a horse with colic, I don't. My vet says that unless they are literally thrashing, let them lay down and be quiet, it's better for them. If thrashing then he says to tranq them if possible, if not, load 'em up in the trailer and get them to the hospital. (I'm only 10 mins from the vet hospital, it's cheaper to pay me to haul them there for $50 round trip than the farm call from the vet $65.)"


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> MLS, she took that from my comment to her, from what my vet has told me in cases where the horse is thrashing violently and needs to be able to be gotten onto a trailer and hauled into the vet hospital. She wasn't saying she did that routinely. She was responding to this:
> 
> "As far as walking a horse with colic, I don't. My vet says that unless they are literally thrashing, let them lay down and be quiet, it's better for them. If thrashing then he says to tranq them if possible, if not, load 'em up in the trailer and get them to the hospital. (I'm only 10 mins from the vet hospital, it's cheaper to pay me to haul them there for $50 round trip than the farm call from the vet $65.)"


In a situation that bad, you mix a good cocktail of painkillers.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

Coupons are purina coupons. I purchase purina feed. If they sign up for coupons and give them to me I will take that money off their board because I get that money off my feed bill so essentially purina is paying a portion of they're board. Sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me!

Referrals only count once but the average client retention so far is 18 months (Again, since I've only been open 3 years and have doubled the size of my business each year I'm assuming this number will most definitely go up). So even if I continue to make $16 on that horse for 18 months.. I still made $188 dollars after the referral. Chances are they will spend more money on lessons and other services so the chances are I'm not going to lose money. I consider myself to be a new business and therefore still trying to build a good clientele base and its working out well so far!

FARRIER-I don't charge for holding for the farrier if its a group thing. I do if someone needs me to be there for 1 or 2 horses. Same for the vet. I don't charge if its more than 3 horses. Why do I do this? Several reasons.. Cuts down on farriers blocking entrances at the busiest times of the day several days a month. People don't do a good job cleaning up after their farrier either. Not to mention if I can get a large enough group.. I get a good rate for the farrier.. and I have 5 horses so that adds up for me. Just something I think is worth my time and its a service my customers value very much.

Sara.. are you trying to say building an indoor arena was a bad business move? Are you kidding me? Perhaps if I was only boarding horses... but I do have a lesson business. To assume I didn't do my research and didn't do a million calculations before I promised to buy a giant building worth twice as much as my house and pay for it in a third of the time is just silly. 

Am I accused of being a tightwad nickle and dimer or a poor businessman throwing money away? It's a bit of an oxymoron.

To me.. waiting on the kindness and generosity of your clients is poor business practice in my experience. BRAVO to the boarders who volunteered to pay for their barn owners time for walking their horse.. very nice of you and I mean that sincerely. Even if it is an emergency. It's kind of like hospitals... they aren't going to turn you away if you're dieing and cant pay..they still send you a bill. Same with the Vet.... For a SCHEDULED vet visit the vet call is $55 and then whatever else on top of that. For a NON SCHEDULED or Emergency visit your vet call is $75 whether your "emergency" is a runny nose or colic.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

starlinestables said:


> Sara.. are you trying to say building an indoor arena was a bad business move? Are you kidding me? Perhaps if I was only boarding horses... but I do have a lesson business. To assume I didn't do my research and didn't do a million calculations before I promised to buy a giant building worth twice as much as my house and pay for it in a third of the time is just silly.
> 
> Am I accused of being a tightwad nickle and dimer or a poor businessman throwing money away? It's a bit of an oxymoron.


Absolutely not saying building the indoor was a bad business move, I think you are missing the point. Not saying you are throwing money away by building it either. I never mentioned nickle and diming, just that you seem to be chasing expenses and that is backwards.

Have another read.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

mls said:


> In a situation that bad, you mix a good cocktail of painkillers.


I second dreamcatcher... if painkillers aren't enough to stop thrashing or dangerous behavior its time for the tranqs. We had to do this for the lipoma. The vet pushed a ton of pain killers and anti spasm meds.. nothing worked so to get him to the vet safely he had to be sedated. Another time at a different barn I worked at the horse was thrashing in his stall and the vet had to use the tranq gun to be able to get to the horse to administer pain meds.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

starlinestables said:


> I second dreamcatcher... if painkillers aren't enough to stop thrashing or dangerous behavior its time for the tranqs. We had to do this for the lipoma. The vet pushed a ton of pain killers and anti spasm meds.. nothing worked so to get him to the vet safely he had to be sedated. Another time at a different barn I worked at the horse was thrashing in his stall and the vet had to use the tranq gun to be able to get to the horse to administer pain meds.


Wow.

In 15+ years of having a stable and 8 of those working as a tech, we had one incident when a vet tranqued a horse in order to get it oiled. The senior partners in the practice tore him a new one.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

mls said:


> Wow.
> 
> In 15+ years of having a stable and 8 of those working as a tech, we had one incident when a vet tranqued a horse in order to get it oiled. The senior partners in the practice tore him a new one.


I'm not saying its common.. but I've seen it done....one died and one was just fine.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

sarahver said:


> Absolutely not saying building the indoor was a bad business move, I think you are missing the point. Not saying you are throwing money away by building it either. I never mentioned nickle and diming, just that you seem to be chasing expenses and that is backwards.
> 
> Have another read.


Bottom line.... I'm not chasing costs.. lessons keep me comfortable and help with improvements more so than boarders (not that I don't appreciate my boarder's business). Boarders do play a crucial part in my business and I outline as best I can what I do and do not cover in the boarding fee. I just feel that its become a slippery slope with my time... aka time spent away from the money making part of my business that does help them too. The more money I make, the more that gets done at the barn and the sooner they are riding in a fancy indoor arena.


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## proequine (Jul 9, 2009)

OMG! Starline, I can not believe the flames that you are getting! 

Did you notice the difference in replies in the BO section of what to charge for daily eye treatment??? Let me list a few points not addressed...


*BO are NOT a replacement for Vet services! It is NOT our job to replace a vet or save you from a vet call.*
If Starline had called a vet, boarders vet fees would have been easily $300. in my area. ($65. farm call x2 for emergency, $70. exam, plus meds, plus time spent, etc..) She did that boarder a FAVOR by having the knowledge, having the right prescription drug on hand, canceling a session, attended to the horse, and waited for the boarder to arrive, so the boarder could make the choice to call the vet. Starline could have just called the vet & boarder and reported a possible colic.... 

$40. Is more than fair.... and the forum is _a flame of attacks_? Shame on you!


Starline went above & beyond, as most good and experienced BO by CHOICE provide. We try to save our boarders expenses, and because we do care for horses! This EXTRA service is NOT in your boarding agreement, and NOT a requirement of being a BO. 


Do you not realize that Staline just saved the horse by being knowledgeable of colic symptoms? How many hours do BO spend watching and being aware of your horses behavior? A good BO knows your horse, because we do spend hours observing your horse without pay! 

You pay for your vet's experience, you pay for your trainers experience, your clinicians, your saddle fitter, your chiropractor, your farrier, your floater....etc.. 

Why do _some boarders_ think BO should work for free? Is it because you have become friends with them, and they also love and care about you and your horse? 


_Boarding means "reasonable care"=_ safe place, safe feed & water. 


*Good BO do go above & beyond*, _but do not ever demand it or tell a BO it's their job!__ It is *NOT* included in your boarding fees that a BO has to sit up all night with your horse. ( most of us have done that many times)_ How much would you have to pay for a vet tech to do that for your horse at the animal hospital?


Boarders are responsible for "additional care and services." 
Try to remember the many times your BO doesn't charge you for her advise, her experience and her knowledge.


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## DraftXDressage (Aug 29, 2011)

Given that your stated "after hours hold fee" is $12.50 per hour, I think $40 for this particular hour is absurd.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

proequine said:


> OMG! Starline, I can not believe the flames that you are getting!
> 
> Did you notice the difference in replies in the BO section of what to charge for daily eye treatment??? Let me list a few points not addressed...I think most of us agreed that an ongoing treatment is very different than this circumstance.
> 
> ...


I am aware that there are primadonna boarders out there, for lack of a better term, who act like the BO's (and usually anyone they pay for anything) like dirt. They do not clean up after themselves or their horse, it is "not their job". Get the flamethrower out, but I see this mostly in teens and twenties. Just MY experience. THese are the twits who give boarders a bad name. I do not think they are the majority, but I think that you and Starline perhaps have more than your share of this type. Unfortunately to a great extent, those of us who have common courtesy are painted with the same brush. I think it has, in a great part, led to this nickel-dime philosophy, perhaps in an effort to make the "bad" boarders understand what is involved? I am not sure. I was raised in a time when it was EXPECTED that you would help, you would hold your own horse, sweep up after it, dump the muck bucket if you fill it, pick up poo wherever your horse leaves it, etc. I am afraid that over the past 40 years something has been lost.

I will say I am glad I do not board at either of your places. I am blessed to be where I am.:wink:


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## THN (Oct 11, 2011)

I wouldn't charge for it. That is just one of those parts of the job that sucks but you do it anyway. If the barn is in serious financial trouble i might explain to the horse's owner how much the damage is and that your not going to charge, but any donation she can make towards the repair would help the barn out a ton. and say that if money is tight it's fine don't worry about it. This way the owner knows that her horse is costing the barn money, but doesn't feel like she is being nickel and dimed, just covering any costs that her horse creates. If she cares she will make a donation of some sort even if she can only afford $5 at the time.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

$12.50 an hour after 8pm isn't unreasonable is it? The $12.50 is to stand there with the vet and hold a flash light or tail out of the way.. lol ya know the usual. Lugging around a horse for over an hour that doesn't feel like walking is a little more labor intensive. He just hurt his leg the day before... the poor baby didn't feel like walking even more than the usual colicky horse. I didn't have help either.. I was lucky to uncast him by myself and then drag him around the arena.

Thanks proequine for the back up.. Its greatly appreciated! Although at this point you should save yourself! These ladies can be brutal... lol. I have tough skin though and I'm use to it here. We just have to smile and nod and wish them well. Agree to disagree. ;o)


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## DraftXDressage (Aug 29, 2011)

Given that you already have a menu of additional services spelled out, and given that there is absolutely nothing on there that says "after-hours holding: $12.50 per hour, unless I have to do more than just stand there or am otherwise feeling inconvenienced, then whatever I deem reasonable," I think charging $40 for this is incredibly unreasonable. I would not be interested in boarding at a facility that had a fee structure like this anyhow, but if I did find myself in such a circumstance, with a whole slate of services spelled out down to the last $0.50, and then all of a sudden I got charged a fee in excess of *three times* the stated amount, I would be out of there the instant my horse was well enough to make a trailer ride.


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## netty83 (Sep 21, 2010)

I would just like to put a scenario to you all. If your child was in daycare while you worked and you had no choice but to stay late at work one night and you rang to say your child would need to stay an hour extra as it was unavoidable and an emergency had occurred at work would you expect to pay for the extra hour your child was there. I suspect the answer is yes you would, this is a professional business and if you can't get there yourself to deal with situations you have to be prepared to pay for someone's time and expertise until you can get there. I wouldn't have any objections to paying for someone to oversee things on my behalf. I recently had a horse that i couldn't catch and my friend who is an instructor came to help me. I expected to pay for her time and help even though she is a friend and i will never take it for granted that she will do things for free (even though she does) as it is her business and her only income.


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

I don't own a barn so I don't think I am going to weigh in too much on this. I've only ever done selfcare where there was no "barn owner", I relied on me checking my horse twice a day, and the other people who keep their horses there (as I would do for them), to find out if something was wrong. I'm also not sure of the story, is the barn owner responsible for the feed and care of the horse? Is that part of the service they are paying for? If so how can this not be considered reasonable care?

But one point I think is worth considering, is that I think $40 would be very overpriced for a business to charge to do this. For lessons you get $40 an hour which is completely understandable but you weren't teaching a lesson. In many large barns, if a standard groom/worker were to walk to the horse they would probably make between $10 and $20 an hour, depending on country and conditions, so I think $40 is a lot. If you went to work at McDonalds or something for an hour would you get $40 because that is what you are paid for lessons? I don't think so. The value (although not necessarily the importance) of what you did does not really equate to that price you suggest (I think). 

If you are using him as a riding lesson horse doesn't that mean you are kind of taking responsibility for his health? What if he coliced because of something one of your students fed him?


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

I pay full livery, if my horse needs immediate attention I would expect my BO to sort it and contact me, if I was away or unable to get there, I'd buy a small gift of thanks but I'm paying a small fortune as it is. 
My YO walked a mare round from 11pm to 6am at one point, and he then passed all his beginner lessons on to me (nice shock!) so he could get some shut eye. No thanks from the owner, nor would I expect her too really, but its one of thos unwritten things. $40 seems like a heck of a lot of money for walking round for an hour, lesson cancellations happen, its one of those things.
I pay €15 for a lesson :S


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

netty83 said:


> I recently had a horse that i couldn't catch and my friend who is an instructor came to help me. I expected to pay for her time and help even though she is a friend and i will never take it for granted that she will do things for free (even though she does) as it is her business and her only income.


Wow! I don't pay friends. In fact they would be offended if I offer to pay for such a thing as giving a friendly hand (taking a lesson or trimming my horse is whole other question - that's indeed business). I'd NEVER consider someone to pay ME if I give that person a hand to help (even when I was a poor college student). 

I guess I should of charge my former BO for washing big water tub every other day, helping her out with horses when she had back issues, charge my friends when they ask me to help, etc. :?

Charges on leaving a kid in childcare passed the time are usually stated in contract. If the child gets sick while in childcare during normal hours ,and it takes you 1 hour to get there (my commute from work home IS 1 hour, I can't make it faster because I don't have a bird to fly) noone gonna charge you "extra" for that. At least I've never heard about it talking to plenty of people.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

starlinestables said:


> $12.50 an hour after 8pm isn't unreasonable is it? The $12.50 is to stand there with the vet and hold a flash light or tail out of the way.. lol ya know the usual. Lugging around a horse for over an hour that doesn't feel like walking is a little more labor intensive.


Well yes... and my trainer who lugged around my horse for nearly an hour and then got up every 2 hours to check on him all night was 8mo pregnant. I cannot imagine it was at all easy or fun for her. Nor could have been the next few weeks when the Vet had her serving him multiple soaked meals daily and measuring his water intake. None of which I was charged extra for.

She insisted that I go home and let her check on him all night because we literally had moved that day and when I dropped everything and ran to my colicing horse, it was 9pm at night, my kids had not eaten dinner, nobody had a clue where their PJ's, sheets or anything else was and since the hubby who bought the kids breakfast & lunch, forgot me, I'd had a grand total of a single banana in the past 14 hours.

You better believe that a month later when her newborn needed to be hospitalized, the first thing I said was don't worry about the horses. I took care of the entire barn until her baby was home and doing well enough for her to be able to do more than run down to the barn a couple times a day and do a fast check on all the horses and I wasn't looking for a break in my board. A couple months of barn cleaning and chores was more than a fair trade for her going over and above in her care for my horse. 

I'm sure it would have cost her more to hire out help for her entire barn than reasonable charges for the services she provided me and if she'd been busy nickel and diming me, I wouldn't have even remotely felt like offering to help.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

netty83 said:


> I would just like to put a scenario to you all. If your child was in daycare while you worked and you had no choice but to stay late at work one night and you rang to say your child would need to stay an hour extra as it was unavoidable and an emergency had occurred at work would you expect to pay for the extra hour your child was there.


Different scenario entirely, but good try. :?

Your child doesn't LIVE at the daycare provider, nor do most daycare providers live where they work. So yes, if they have to stay late to care for your little one, who would normally have gone home, that's an extra charge.

The horse and BO both live on the property, so her walking the horse for 40 minutes while the owner is in transit does in no way, shape, or form compare to a child left at daycare for an extra hour.

Instead of her being disingenuous and saying how inexpensive her board is, maybe she should just up the **** boarding fee instead of thinking her boarders owe her money every time she does more than look at a horse in passing, or dump feed in its bucket. :-x


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> Instead of her being disingenuous and saying how inexpensive her board is, maybe she should just up the **** boarding fee instead of thinking her boarders owe her money every time she does more than look at a horse in passing, or dump feed in its bucket. :-x


Are you sure that there isn't a fee for looking at the horse? I'm sure if the horse knocks it's bucket over or poops in it, there's a fee because it's now "difficult" to feed that horse. 

I notice the farrier option is trims or front shoes only. So what about horses with back shoes? Is a fee charged to hold that horse for another few minutes while the back shoes are put on? 

I'm still perplexed as to the nightmare that must be involved in keeping track of how many of the allotted bags of shavings each horse has used each month. Do you have a partial bag of shavings hanging out in front of each stall, so you can add as needed, since you can't take a single bag and top up everyone's stalls. Do the neat and tidy horses get a discount on board, while the stall pigs pay extra?


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## TurnNBurn625 (Aug 19, 2010)

i personally wouldnt board my horse at a barn that would charge for certain things. such as putting on/taking off a fly mask, blankets, grooming, feeding, watering. i see many barns doing this now. those things are normal everyday actions for horses. you shouldnt charge extra for that.
if you was to charge me for walking my horse when he was colicing and i lived 40 minutes away. i would be livid. i would feel as if i already pay board. this should be included in the board. i would probably end up paying you for walking him but i would also move my horse to a different barn.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

TurnNBurn625 said:


> i personally wouldnt board my horse at a barn that would charge for certain things. such as putting on/taking off a fly mask, blankets, grooming, feeding, watering. i see many barns doing this now. those things are normal everyday actions for horses. you shouldnt charge extra for that.
> if you was to charge me for walking my horse when he was colicing and i lived 40 minutes away. i would be livid. i would feel as if i already pay board. this should be included in the board. i would probably end up paying you for walking him but i would also move my horse to a different barn.


Grooming? A barn should include grooming?

It all depends on what type of service offered at a barn. Obviously if you want something included in your board, you would board at a facility that offered those extras.

Sorry - but as a BO with a full time job and my own horses, I will charge for the things the boarders could very well do themselves. Hold for vet, hold for farrier, vaccinations, worming, exercising and the like.

I will say I have walked horses and checked them hourly when colic was suspected and not charged.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

Other charges I have run across. 
I was checking out a boarding kennel for my Chocolat Lab to stay when I went out of town. They actually charged $5.00 to pet your dog. They charged $15.00 for a 20 min. one on one play time, I witnessed this, the young lady giving one on one play time sat on a stool talking on the phone the whole time. Needless to say I found other arangements for my dog.
My old farrier charged $10.00 to catch a horse in pasture, he also charged $10.00 and up for training/dicipline.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

Delfina said:


> You better believe that a month later when her newborn needed to be hospitalized, the first thing I said was don't worry about the horses. I took care of the entire barn until her baby was home and doing well enough for her to be able to do more than run down to the barn a couple times a day and do a fast check on all the horses and I wasn't looking for a break in my board. A couple months of barn cleaning and chores was more than a fair trade for her going over and above in her care for my horse.


I would rather get paid for my time and pay for their time so I know it's fair and no one ever feels taken advantage of. I even have to pay my dad (who lives at the barn) to feed a few mornings a week!



Speed Racer said:


> The horse and BO both live on the property, so her walking the horse for 40 minutes while the owner is in transit does in no way, shape, or form compare to a child left at daycare for an extra hour.
> 
> Instead of her being disingenuous and saying how inexpensive her board is, maybe she should just up the **** boarding fee instead of thinking her boarders owe her money every time she does more than look at a horse in passing, or dump feed in its bucket. :-x


I DON"T live on the property. I use to. My dad lives on the property. My husband and I are currently having a house built out there and will move back this spring.

So I should up my board to $500 so that 18 of my boarders are covering the bills of the 2 high maintenance ones and just in case their horse ever gets hurt? So do you think that's fair to the boarder whose horse has been with me for two years, doesn't get a blanket, eats 1 lb of grain and has never had so much as a scratch?! 



Delfina said:


> Are you sure that there isn't a fee for looking at the horse? I'm sure if the horse knocks it's bucket over or poops in it, there's a fee because it's now "difficult" to feed that horse.
> 
> I notice the farrier option is trims or front shoes only. So what about horses with back shoes? Is a fee charged to hold that horse for another few minutes while the back shoes are put on?
> 
> I'm still perplexed as to the nightmare that must be involved in keeping track of how many of the allotted bags of shavings each horse has used each month. Do you have a partial bag of shavings hanging out in front of each stall, so you can add as needed, since you can't take a single bag and top up everyone's stalls. Do the neat and tidy horses get a discount on board, while the stall pigs pay extra?


I obviously don't charge to "look" at a horse. Where are your, and SpeedRacer's manners? Do you not know how to nicely relay your opinion? Be careful, I may send you a bill for being a PITA.:wink:

Pasture boarded horses can not have back shoes. Stall horses who are turned out with a much smaller group of the same horses can. No I don't charge to stand there an extra 10 minutes. In fact, I don't stand there the whole time for the farrier. Cross ties do that for me. I'm in the close vicinity if he needs me. I'll go catch more horses, switch them out.. or sit on the tail gait and just chit chat about how he's doing.

Shavings- Not hard people. Staff take notes on what they did every day on their time sheets. Also the bags I use are local. They are not the same sized bags you get from Tractor Supply and they are very fine cut. Most horses go through 4 or 5 bags a month. Limiting the bags of shavings allows me to more accurately control cost. For example: Lets say it rains a ton and horses are in double the time and I have to go through double the shavings. That's an $800 hit to my budget! Drought causes hay prices to go up... rain causes us to go through more shavings.. Horse owners (including myself) have to pay the increased amount. It's part of horse ownership. Each horse owner would have to pay $33 for double shavings. Since I own 5, that means I'm paying $165! It sucks the worse for me.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

TurnNBurn... I don't know of a barn under $800 a month that includes grooming and all of those things you mentioned. I will certainly do all of those things but just be prepared to get a bill that is substantially more than my normal $400.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

starlinestables said:


> TurnNBurn... I don't know of a barn under $800 a month that includes grooming and all of those things you mentioned. I will certainly do all of those things but just be prepared to get a bill that is substantially more than my normal $400.



Personally if you feel you need to charge extras then maybe you need to look into raising your board, but doing it in increments.


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## RollTop (Sep 13, 2010)

I've read every page because I've often dealt these issues myself as a BM. I also went and looked at your website, boarding agreement ect. I must say that I love your website. Few spelling/grammar things but very nice. I too had some of the same concerns after reading some of the other posts but you answered every question I had. After going through your website, I think the way you do things is very smart and can see why you do them. A little tedious but if you're willing to do it so be it! Some months I'm rolling in the dough, others I'm eating ramen noodles because I go through double the shavings or more grain/hay. I'm checking out that billing website now. Scheduling lessons online? I'm drooling. 

To the original point: Time is money. I agree that you should be paid for your time because vets and farriers do it to. Hell my farrier charges if the hooves aren't clean before he shoes them! Your contract states what you do provide. Your FAQ section says what you do include as far as first aid goes. I think you are well with in your right to ask for compensation. $40? I was thinking more like $20.

Hope that helps! I hope it's ok that I sent you an email with a few questions about the online lesson scheduling thing too.


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## jumpingrules92 (Aug 2, 2011)

SaddleOnline said:


> If you don't mention charging for emergency services in your boarding agreement, I don't think you can fairly charge her for the hour. Fact is, this is what life with horses is about and sometimes you just have to take the blows as they come. Hopefully, if you're not there one day and one of your horses suddenly colics, someone will be there to take care of it and walk it for you without a second thought.


This is exactly what I was going to say, at my barn we have an itemized list of everything they charge for and how much it is. Unless its in the contract- can't charge for it.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

My trainer (the owner of the farm) has schedule of fees for extras put in kitchen and bathroom (like $10 to hold the horse for the vet, $20 to pull the mane, and so on). I think it's very reasonable: those services are something owner can do himself (blanketing and fly mask are included). And if the owner can't he/she pays for the time of someone who can (usually BM or one of the helpers).


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

bubba13 said:


> I cannot believe you only pay $5 to use someone else's horse in a lesson.


Exactly. That is taking advantage of the boarder. Usually if using a horse for lessons you would pay all the expenses on a horse. At 5.00 bucks a pop you would have to give 40 lessons a month just to cover a measily 200.00 a month in board not including farrier and vet care.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

starlinestables said:


> On farrier days, I hike across 60 acres to catch and hold for the farrier.. I will typically groom them/flyspray while they are being done.


This is something that the owner should handle. If they are not available then you should charge for this. This isn't your job to catch a horse out of a pasture for the farrier. If they are stalled the farrier should be able to do it themselves or decline to do the horse if they need a handler nand the owner does not arrange it.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Ok I looked at your site and was astonished that you charge 22.00 for a trim including catching and holding the horse. That is way low so you only have yourself to blame. I would think you would have better things to do with your time. I pay 30.00 for a trim and I am holding the horse.

Another thing I want to mention is that if you get 100.00 for a lesson would you think it fair to charge 100.00 for walking? Was there not anyone else there that could have walked the horse while you were giving your lesson? Could the horse have been tied up so it couldn't lay down?

I also think you should have made it clear to the owner to come now as you had a lesson coming.

I also thought your charge of .30 a pd for extra grain seemed odd? That is only 4.50 a 50lb bag. That sound like really cheap grain. You may need some help on how and what to charge for as some stuff you seem to give away somethings and that is why you are not making any money. 

At 265.00 a month for pasture board you should have a hefty profit on those horses


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

i didn't read all the posts but most of them. i agree with not charging for the walking in case of the emergency especially when they got there asap. but if this horse causes damage to the property often like you mentioned, i would ask for something to cover what was ruined. that might make me sound mean or something but i think thats only fair. that way you can cover some costs of repairs and still have respect for handling emergencies. i feel its the owners responibility if the horse ruins the facility therefore the owner should chip in


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## TurnNBurn625 (Aug 19, 2010)

starlinestables said:


> TurnNBurn... I don't know of a barn under $800 a month that includes grooming and all of those things you mentioned. I will certainly do all of those things but just be prepared to get a bill that is substantially more than my normal $400.


thats what im talking about. thats crazy. why charge someone who is already paying board for normal horse care.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

churumbeque said:


> Ok I looked at your site and was astonished that you charge 22.00 for a trim including catching and holding the horse. That is way low so you only have yourself to blame. I would think you would have better things to do with your time. I pay 30.00 for a trim and I am holding the horse.
> 
> Another thing I want to mention is that if you get 100.00 for a lesson would you think it fair to charge 100.00 for walking? Was there not anyone else there that could have walked the horse while you were giving your lesson? Could the horse have been tied up so it couldn't lay down?
> 
> ...


The farrier is $22 a month. My farrier charges $30. At 6 weeks, that's 8.7 times a year multiplied by $30 = $261 divided by 12 months = $22. If the horse gets done every 8 then its $15.

Who did your math on the grain? $.30 per lb is $15 a bag. If a horse gets 5 lbs then its $9 a month extra or (.30 x 30). Pasture boarders pay $.40 per lb starting at 5 lbs because its a bigger PITA (gotta drive out in the gator and put the feed bag on).

Also no one has complained about $5 per lesson. Were not talking about premium horses here. They are lesson horses/ponies that back pack beginner/intermediate riders. The walk, trot, canter, jump and go in the general direction they're pointed and don't buck my students off lol. They typically don't get ridden much by they're owners. They look fantastic though thanks to my students (and supplies). We take videos and pictures for the owners and they really appreciate it. I've actually gotten compliments from some that say their horses have never looked so good and behaved so well!


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

TurnNBurn625 said:


> thats what im talking about. thats crazy. why charge someone who is already paying board for normal horse care.


I see that your from Eastern TN... your comments make much more sense to me now. Things are much cheaper there and people there are much more..."simple" and I mean that in a good way. It doesn't surprise me that people there would bend over backwards to give you the shirt off their back is what I mean. I went to school in Bristol and the first boy I dated opened doors for me and took his hat off the dinner table.. I didn't know what to think!:lol:

In my area, its not like that. Just because I'm in Texas doesn't mean southern hospitality. We're more of the gun toting beware of strangers type lol.


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## TurnNBurn625 (Aug 19, 2010)

it dont matter where you are located or from. not only do i have southern hospitality but im also the "gun toting" type.
you shouldn't charge someone for doing the daily care on a horse, if they are able to come out that day. its just not right.


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## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

I maybe a little different here but the quote from The Godfather and You've Got Mail "it's not personal...it is business" applies. 

My two geldings are pasture boarded at a nice facility. I pay $250 per gelding for pasture board, twice daily feeding, round bales IN THE WINTER only. 

I am charged if they bring up the boys to have their hooves done. Cheaper if I was there and brought them up myself...now I do them myself so it is a non issue. 

There is a barn manager who lives off site and a barn owner who lives on site. 

If your horse is in full board they will blanket them and give supplements, etc. BO did see horse colic earlier this year and walked him til his owner got there. I don't think there was a charge but if there had have been so what? He tried to colic again a few weeks ago and another boarder called my cousin who called me because she didn't know the owners number. I went out there and got him up to the barn because I lived closer. We do help each other out as friends but, again, business is business. I will gladly pay for attention to my horse. My own horse colicked 2 years ago and I found him out in the pasture down the day after Christmas. I don't think BO was even home. Ms Jean would have given me good advice to call the vet and would have helped with meds but had there been a charge I wouldn't have griped or been offended. 

I own my own cake business. I bend over backwards to provide good service to my brides but that doesn't mean that I give away my time or product. If I bake a cake for a bride and she calls me the day before the wedding and says "gee, I'd like a different flavor - I've already paid but can you bake another?" If possible, I would say yes...but there would be a charge. I make, decorate and deliver cakes - I don't stay and serve the cake. My time is my time. If after I deliver & set up a cake and I leave then someone messes with it and fricks it up and I get a call to return and "fix" it - yes, someone is going to be paying for my time. And my time after I leave is expensive.

Business is business and just because you are paying full board at $400 a month I wouldn't expect a barn owner/manager to walk my horse for hours, etc. I WOULD expect them to call me and let me know there was a problem and then I would either get there as fast as I could and ASK if they could walk/take care of and I would reimburse them. I would not assume that that was included in my board! Board is just that - feed, water, shelter and observance.

I am lucky that the barn I am at is terrific - the people are very nice and I am good friends/riding buddies with the barn manager and another boarder. The stable/maintenance men are terrific. The owners are great people. There is a new horse there - a 2 year old paint with blue eyes - lol her owner (I have NEVER seen her and the filly has been there over a month) wants her INSIDE because of her blue eyes and the poor thing would be left in the stall if the BM didn't take pity on her and turn her out in the covered arena in the morning. They do care about the horses even when the owners are fricktards and yes, there are loads of people who board who are total fricktards. 

"Fair understanding brings no falling out" to quote my very wise grandmother. As long as boarders know the rules and agree to them I don't see a problem. No single barn will fulfill the needs/wants/desires of every single rider/owner/student. 

OP your facility is lovely!!


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

starlinestables said:


> I would rather get paid for my time and pay for their time so I know it's fair and no one ever feels taken advantage of. I even have to pay my dad (who lives at the barn) to feed a few mornings a week!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Let me make sure I understand this.....So, in reality, the amount of your board varies depending on the WEATHER?:shock: Yikes!


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

starlinestables said:


> TurnNBurn... I don't know of a barn under $800 a month that includes grooming and all of those things you mentioned. I will certainly do all of those things but just be prepared to get a bill that is substantially more than my normal $400.


 
Actually, I can name three right off the top of my head, and just ones I personally know......that for $800-$1000 your horse is boarded, groomed, TRAINED (as in ridden by a pro) 4-5 days a week, bathed, clipped and ready to show come time to. One even includes help (like lessons, but not really called that) each and every time you ride if you want. Only ONE of these is a small local place. All have Indoor arenas and are absolutely immaculate facilities. The $1000 one actually looks much like yours, but the barn is heated, and the trainer is a bit more well known than the others in his discipline. And, you cannot say I am in TN.....one is in NY, one in PA and one in MD. The only "extras" are for farrier or vet. Period.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

starlinestables said:


> The farrier is $22 a month. My farrier charges $30. At 6 weeks, that's 8.7 times a year multiplied by $30 = $261 divided by 12 months = $22. If the horse gets done every 8 then its $15.
> 
> Who did your math on the grain? $.30 per lb is $15 a bag. If a horse gets 5 lbs then its $9 a month extra or (.30 x 30). Pasture boarders pay $.40 per lb starting at 5 lbs because its a bigger PITA (gotta drive out in the gator and put the feed bag on).
> 
> Also no one has complained about $5 per lesson. Were not talking about premium horses here. They are lesson horses/ponies that back pack beginner/intermediate riders. The walk, trot, canter, jump and go in the general direction they're pointed and don't buck my students off lol. They typically don't get ridden much by they're owners. They look fantastic though thanks to my students (and supplies). We take videos and pictures for the owners and they really appreciate it. I've actually gotten compliments from some that say their horses have never looked so good and behaved so well!


Must have hit a wrong number on the calculator but .30 a pound is cheap and not any profit on a good feed.
Also why wouldn't you be making money on the trims unless I had a typo on that also. 3.00 wouldn't be worth my time.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

franknbeans said:


> Let me make sure I understand this.....So, in reality, the amount of your board varies depending on the WEATHER?:shock: Yikes!


 Only if the boarder wants it to. They can request we turn they're horses out in the bigger fields regardless of weather if they'd like. The 6 bags gives them a little wiggle room but not a lot. Are you this shocked when HAY prices are dependent on the weather too? :shock:lol



churumbeque said:


> Must have hit a wrong number on the calculator but .30 a pound is cheap and not any profit on a good feed.
> Also why wouldn't you be making money on the trims unless I had a typo on that also. 3.00 wouldn't be worth my time.


 The farrier thing is kind of a PITA but worth it for me for reason explained previously. JMO.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

I have boarded at many places over the years, but have never ever had my board vary month to month based on hay or bedding. If a BO ups the board, it is usually a permanent change they do not take lightly,without serious thought. Many only charge more to new boarders, and do not change those of us who have been there. I would never agree to board that is THAT variable. I did have one that actually charged a $25 extra board fee in the winter, but that was reliable and in the original contract. That was as close as I can come to what you do.

So basically your boarders can choose, even tho they PAY for "stall" board, to have their horses out in the rain, or pay more for bedding. *shaking head* Wow.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

franknbeans said:


> I have boarded at many places over the years, but have never ever had my board vary month to month based on hay or bedding. If a BO ups the board, it is usually a permanent change they do not take lightly,without serious thought. Many only charge more to new boarders, and do not change those of us who have been there. I would never agree to board that is THAT variable. I did have one that actually charged a $25 extra board fee in the winter, but that was reliable and in the original contract. That was as close as I can come to what you do.
> 
> So basically your boarders can choose, even tho they PAY for "stall" board, to have their horses out in the rain, or pay more for bedding. *shaking head* Wow.


Everyone is charging a temporary hay surcharge right now because hay prices have doubled. 

Bedding is not usually an issue just FYI. Not to mention there are shelters in my pastures if it were raining. However, we keep horses in when its too muddy. The large pastures are less muddy.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

starlinestables said:


> Everyone is charging a temporary hay surcharge right now because hay prices have doubled.


*Everyone*?

Guess I better take my bill back to my trainer and tell her she forgot to add a hay surcharge on.


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## jumpingrules92 (Aug 2, 2011)

Delfina said:


> *Everyone*?
> 
> Guess I better take my bill back to my trainer and tell her she forgot to add a hay surcharge on.


I don't know about you, but my board rate hasn't changed this month!

I understand that sometimes you have to raise board- but I would be darn near in an uproar if I didn't get a notice saying "next month board will be raised by amount of dollars". My board has never fluctuated on the price of hay.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

Google hay prices in Texas. Most barns have been charging a surcharge all summer. I just started November because I still had hay left. Sorry don't have $4600 EXTRA a month to cover it..


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Ok that was way to many pages to read through:shock:
The charge to walk a colicing horse or tending to any emergency that may happen to me goes with the territory of managing a barn is uncalled for IMO.As long as the appropriate people have been notified like vet & horse owner & they arrive in reasonable time frame.These events are unplanned & something I'd expect a caring BO to do.Not to be thinking of the compensation they should receive for there time:-x,I know I wouldn't be & same with most everyone I know. If horse owner decides they can't come & wants you to deal with it well then that's a different story. As far as other charges at the barn,feed,bedding shelter is the norm for most places in the monthly board charge.Extra charges I've seen & don't feel are out of line are additional feeding, blanketing,holding for vet or farrier etc.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

Here's a link about the horrible drought and about the hay surcharges.. I've seen them any where from $20-70 extra a month!
Horse owners can't find hay, prices soar - Dallas Business Journal 

I just let my husband by a giant trailer so we could go to Nebraska and get our own so that we don't have to charge so much and maybe sell some too. I have to go to get my class A on my drivers license to do it too... If that's not freaking dedication I don't know what is.


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## jumpingrules92 (Aug 2, 2011)

starlinestables said:


> Here's a link about the horrible drought and about the hay surcharges.. I've seen them any where from $20-70 extra a month!
> Horse owners can't find hay, prices soar - Dallas Business Journal
> 
> I just let my husband by a giant trailer so we could go to Nebraska and get our own so that we don't have to charge so much and maybe sell some too. I have to go to get my class A on my drivers license to do it too... If that's not freaking dedication I don't know what is.


How do you usually buy it? What do you feed?


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

jumpingrules92 said:


> How do you usually buy it? What do you feed?


We feed coastal.. I usually get it from a local grower but of course they don't have any.


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## jumpingrules92 (Aug 2, 2011)

starlinestables said:


> We feed coastal.. I usually get it from a local grower but of course they don't have any.


how do you buy it?

luckily in CA we have so many options locally for Hay. So many places within 1hr that you can go to and all really nice stuff- glad we aren't dealing with that. However our hay prices have always been rather high.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Wow, such high hay prices astound me. We can pick up quality 50-lb bales of certified organic horse hay for $3-3.50 from any of the farmers down the street. Round bales are $20 a pop.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

equiniphile said:


> Wow, such high hay prices astound me. We can pick up quality 50-lb bales of certified organic horse hay for $3-3.50 from any of the farmers down the street. Round bales are $20 a pop.


Yep but that's because everyone and their mom can grow it up here :lol:


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

starlinestables said:


> *I see that your from Eastern TN... your comments make much more sense to me now. Things are much cheaper there and people there are much more..."simple" and I mean that in a good way.* It doesn't surprise me that people there would bend over backwards to give you the shirt off their back is what I mean. I went to school in Bristol and the first boy I dated opened doors for me and took his hat off the dinner table.. I didn't know what to think!:lol:
> 
> In my area, its not like that. Just because I'm in Texas doesn't mean southern hospitality. We're more of the gun toting beware of strangers type lol.


That sounds a bit judgmental. All horse people in Tennessee are "simple". Like in "hicks"?

I guess you wouldn't mind if someone called *all Texans *(that would include you) something stereotyped also? I spent time showing in some pretty large and very sophisticated shows in Tennessee.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Yeah I've found that most stereotypes (whether good or bad!) never stick anymore, people are moving from state to state all over the place anyway.

Although I have to say that given an icy snowy road to drive on in the middle of a blizzard, someone who grew up in Florida is probably going to freak out and end up in a ditch while I could navigate no problemmo in the tiniest of cars, having lived in Ohio my entire life ;-)


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## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

Hay prices in Texas have skyrocketed due to drought and wildfires. Honey Darling Precious just paid $17.61 for a bale of "Alfalfa" at a new place near us. He told me it is a bale of "something with SOME alfalfa" in it. His gelding Sarge was totally uninterested in eating it as it wasn't alfalfa! I am hauling said bale back and getting my money back. If I am paying that much for a bale of hay it had better darn well BE alfalfa. 

Our barn grows their own Bahia hay. It is not the best hay in the world...I prefer Tifton, Coastal Bermuda or Alicia Hay. The barn has 3 large hayfields and Ms. Jean keeps enough for the ranch and sales the rest. OMG the barn manager's phone has rang off her butt with people BEGGING for any hay for their horses so Yeah...hay is hard to come by right now. I saw a huge 18 wheeler hauling round bales from Georgia the other day. The round bales at the barn are $40.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

jumpingrules92 said:


> My board has never fluctuated on the price of hay.


 
It's not unheard of folks. There are facilities that have a winter hay surcharge.


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## ichliebepferde (Sep 8, 2011)

I, also am in south Texas and Hay prices here.. are wow. $14 dollars a bale. Round bales are $150+ it's terrible.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

Allison Finch said:


> That sounds a bit judgmental. All horse people in Tennessee are "simple". Like in "hicks"?
> 
> I guess you wouldn't mind if someone called *all Texans *(that would include you) something stereotyped also? I spent time showing in some pretty large and very sophisticated shows in Tennessee.


You do realize you picked the worse sentence out of that statement? I used to LIVE in eastern TN. Hell I was born in TN soo I think that gives me plenty of experience to comment. I'm just saying its very different from Texas in a sense that they have a lot more southern hospitality. Leave it to the ladies on horseforum turn a compliment into an insult. geez!


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

A better word might have been 'kinder' or 'hospitable'. 

You know, like NOT calling your boarders 'retarded' when they're annoying you. 'Difficult' might have been a better choice of words.

Starline, you're the one who comes across as a brass plated, only in it for the money, type of BO I'd run away from. You might not actually BE like that, but it's certainly the perception you give. So if people are getting offended by what you post, it's most likely because they've already formed a less than flattering opinion of you based on your own words. 

You come off as an entitled princess who thinks others are less important, and far less intelligent than yourself.


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## cakemom (Jul 4, 2010)

Aaah I love having my horses at home. I walk sick horses for our trainer all the time and don't charge her, it's called helping.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cakemom (Jul 4, 2010)

By the way, I just paid 25 for a gorgeous 3 strand alfalfa and $6 a bale for 50 load it yourself Alicia Bermuda.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

Speed Racer said:


> A better word might have been 'kinder' or 'hospitable'.
> 
> You know, like NOT calling your boarders 'retarded' when they're annoying you. 'Difficult' might have been a better choice of words.
> 
> ...


I can't help if I think of something as being "simple". I realized that some people may take offense to that which is why I said it was a compliment. I did say I went to school there so obviously I didn't mean "simple" to mean stupid.

To say something is "retarded" is a common expression for many things that are not actually "retarded". I didn't think I had to explain that. It's something I call my husband at least once a week especially when he makes me watch southpark lol. That fact that I have to explain that to the people on horseforum who use the word "retarded" and the like, to describe each other is beyond me!


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

If someone is my source of income, I'll generally refrain from insulting them in any venue which they could potentially access, regardless of my opinion of them. No need to shoot myself in the foot.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

bubba13 said:


> If someone is my source of income, I'll generally refrain from insulting them in any venue which they could potentially access, regardless of my opinion of them. No need to shoot myself in the foot.


If people cant take a joke then I don't want them at my barn. period.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

starlinestables said:


> If people cant take a joke then I don't want them at my barn. period.


Some things are a matter of perception. As has been said many times, the typed word is difficult to determine true inflection.

However - "Retarded" is not PC (politically correct) and has not been for a very long time.

Yes, your barn - your rules but HF is a public forum.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

starlinestables said:


> To say something is "retarded" is a common expression for many things that are not actually "retarded". I didn't think I had to explain that. It's something I call my husband at least once a week especially when he makes me watch southpark lol. That fact that I have to explain that to the people on horseforum who use the word "retarded" and the like, to describe each other is beyond me!


We all understand what it meant especially in the context you had it in. 

But then again I guess most of us would rather say "You're not being very PC, there are better ways to put it" than going your route and saying "Stop being a *****!" :lol:


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

Same difference. Y'all take yourselves a little too seriously! Lighten up!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Perception=reality. Sorry but true, and in this case us, AKA prospective customers have the PERCEPTION that has been gently explained to you. Again, you choose, not to listen. Your choice, certainly. However, defending yourself will not change our perception. Your not listening will not make "it" go away-just us.

You are young and have lots to learn about business and life. The fact that you do not hear what your customers and others are saying-REALLY HEAR IT-tells me that you may very well not be successful long term. just so I am clear, I mean listening in the truest sense. Not seeing or hearing the words, but actually understanding what is being said to you.

Perhaps, just perhaps, you are a bit "too light" and we are more on track at being serious when there are hundreds of thousands of YOUR dollars at stake. Seems to me it might be worth your while to at least think about what people are saying.


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## Maverick101 (Nov 8, 2009)

first of all, I would just like to say I read ALL 15 pages, ...and now need a beer:shock:

Now for my 10 cents......as for the charging of walking the colicky horse, I myself would not charge the owner, as I do think the owner made enough of an attempt to be at the barn in a timely manner. If the owner didnt show, or simply said "you deal with it"...then yes, I would have charged.....as you as an owner have a responsibility to your horse even though Im "getting paid" to care for them. 

In my barn I do not have allot of extra charges, I like to keep it "simple" (there's that word again :wink. I do not charge to hold for vet or farrier, if its during regular hours, or if scheduled along w other horses. 
But if you wanted the vet out at 9pm and you weren't here, then yes I may charge a handling fee...depending on the circumstances.
I do charge for putting on polos or boots for turnout, but do not charge a blanket fee like most stables.

I do think that some people are attacking Star a bit much, taking everything she says and twisting it into the BO from hell. I do agree that some of the things she does, seem "odd" to me, but if it works for her and her boarders..awesome. Wouldn't work for me, but who am I to judge....dont know her or her barn from adam.
I knew exactly what she meant by the term "simple"....(definition :_ Easily_ _understood or done; presenting no difficulty_)....no need to jump down her throat because she used a term that has more then one meaning. 

I have had my share of moments of sleeping in the barn, hand walking horses, wrapping gaping wounds daily because owners didn't have the skills or time to do such....i don't charge extra, but that is just me....as I know most stables around here would.
My boarders appreciate all I do for them....I do get some pretty kick *** xmas gifts because of it.


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## Clementine (Sep 24, 2009)

My initial reaction was that there shouldn't be a charge. However, if you contacted her, and she asked you to walk him, and was in no hurry to get there to do it herself...it only seems fair that you be paid. Particularly if you have a fairly low boarding rate for your area. 

Basically, if the owner COULD be there (I personally would sprint out the door at my job if my horse was colicking), I think you should be paid if you have to walk them for more than half an hour. If the owner was out of town, or otherwise unable to be there, then I wouldn't charge. I might get an employee to do it though...

What I would probably do is let this one slide, but establish a policy. You should put together a list of 'extras' and what you charge for them. My barn has something like that - $10/15 minutes of hand walking, $3 to pick feet, $20 to lunge for 20 minutes, stuff like that.


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## TurnNBurn625 (Aug 19, 2010)

Allison Finch said:


> That sounds a bit judgmental. All horse people in Tennessee are "simple". Like in "hicks"?
> 
> I guess you wouldn't mind if someone called *all Texans *(that would include you) something stereotyped also? I spent time showing in some pretty large and very sophisticated shows in Tennessee.


thank you so much!! i truly appreciate it


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## sillyhorses (Sep 2, 2011)

We don't charge. In 3 years, we have had one colick that resulted in being in the barn until 4am, delirious from exhaustion doing whatever needed to be done to help. We were only going to charge for the cost of banamine and syringes, (not our time), but the horse's owners replaced it without us even asking.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## highlonesome (Nov 3, 2011)

I spent the better part of an afternoon with a colicky horse two days ago.I guess I was just happy knowing he was gonna live.Didn't own him...didn't matter.Had people do the same for me.Only money that ever changed hands was to a vet here and there.don't expect pay,because some day or night when you're not around,your horse may go down,or need patched up and some one might be able to save em...and I'll bet they do it for nothing.principle really.


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## DancingWithSunny (Mar 13, 2011)

I've walked a colicking horse for an hour before, called the vet (after asking his owner), stayed while the vet was with him then stayed the night in my car on the yard to keep an eye on him. His owner was there before the vet, she stayed the night, but I never even got a thank you, never mind payment. Infact what I did get was moans about the fact that she now had a vet bill.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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