# Creep Feeding



## benson2008 (Apr 29, 2012)

I need as much advice on creep feeding as possible. What age, what feed, how much and how ??? Thank you.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

benson2008 said:


> I need as much advice on creep feeding as possible. What age, what feed, how much and how ??? Thank you.


I fed my own sweet feed...it was near Purina.

Most foals were eating good at one week.

I feed free choice for about a year.


----------



## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

What is the point of feeding sweet feed to a foal so young? And free choice at that. IMO, a foal only needs access to quality hay, water, and minerals.


----------



## FaydesMom (Mar 25, 2012)

The easiest way is to find a small "creep feeder" tub at the feed store. Just hang it near where you feed the mare, down low enough for baby to reach. Put some of the mares feed in the little feeder for the baby to try. They are very inquisitive and will soon be poking their nose in and nibbling away. They have adjustable spacers to make room for baby's nose but not moms.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

Poseidon said:


> What is the point of feeding sweet feed to a foal so young? And free choice at that. IMO, a foal only needs access to quality hay, water, and minerals.


The point is to raise a good baby.


----------



## FaydesMom (Mar 25, 2012)

Poseidon said:


> What is the point of feeding sweet feed to a foal so young? And free choice at that. IMO, a foal only needs access to quality hay, water, and minerals.


If you look at benson's post, the "status" thingy at the bottom says: "benson2008 is Looking for some tips on weight gain for mare and foal"

If the foal is getting nutrition from creep feeding, mom is using less of her energy feeding foal and can then gain some weight herself.


----------



## benson2008 (Apr 29, 2012)

I've already seen him poking in his mothers feed, can he eat what she eats or is it better to get his own feed? Also can i feed him when i feed her or does he have to have it down all the time?


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

My mares and foals were in a big box stall.

I set a post in a back coner about three foot from one wall and four foot from the back wall.

Then I nailed boards so the foal could get under the far end.....two boards on the long end.

Feed tub hung in the coner.

I loved it because most foals learned to lay in there.

It was always clean and had dry saw dust.

Of course, they got out to exercise twice a day.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

benson2008 said:


> I've already seen him poking in his mothers feed, can he eat what she eats or is it better to get his own feed? Also can i feed him when i feed her or does he have to have it down all the time?


I like free choice.


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

FaydesMom said:


> If you look at benson's post, the "status" thingy at the bottom says: "benson2008 is Looking for some tips on weight gain for mare and foal"
> 
> If the foal is getting nutrition from creep feeding, mom is using less of her energy feeding foal and can then gain some weight herself.


That doesn't meant that the foal or the mare needs free choice sweet feed. Sweet feed is basically glorified candy for horses. Free choice feeding sweet feed is just asking for problems. 

I suggest the OP find something that is more nutritionally sound and available where they are at.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

NdAppy said:


> That doesn't meant that the foal or the mare needs free choice sweet feed. Sweet feed is basically glorified candy for horses. Free choice feeding sweet feed is just asking for problems.
> 
> I suggest the OP find something that is more nutritionally sound and available where they are at.


I missed how many champion horses you have raised.


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Ripper said:


> I missed how many champion horses you have raised.


Does it matter? No. You've been out of horses for how long now? 20 or so years right? Feed and our knowledge of feed has changed in that time. If you can't handle that and the fact that your advice is outdated and considered dangerous... Well then it that just too bad.


----------



## Delacy (Aug 30, 2011)

Ripper said:


> I missed how many champion horses you have raised.


 And what does that have to do with anything? I have raised champion horses myself and most of that had to do with the thought I put into breeding the parents than what I fed them when they were babies.

I agree that sweet feeds are not the best choice- the high starches can lead to many problems in a developing foal, and feeding free choice sweet feed in a growing baby is just asking for IR development. A healthy foal will indeed do just fine on grass, water and minerals.

If mom and foal are needing more weight, mom's feed needs to be upped to a higher protein, and fat added to her diet as well. She could also bebefit from free choice hay. That said, I was having to fix pans of feed for some of my foals, but that was more to keep their noses out of mom's bucket than it was because they were hungry. I would give them a handful of 16% mare and foal feed, calf manna, and a soaked alfalfa cube. to make it all smushy and easy to chew on.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

Delacy said:


> And what does that have to do with anything? I have raised champion horses myself and most of that had to do with the thought I put into breeding the parents than what I fed them when they were babies.
> 
> I agree that sweet feeds are not the best choice- the high starches can lead to many problems in a developing foal, and feeding free choice sweet feed in a growing baby is just asking for IR development. A healthy foal will indeed do just fine on grass, water and minerals.
> 
> If mom and foal are needing more weight, mom's feed needs to be upped to a higher protein, and fat added to her diet as well. She could also bebefit from free choice hay. That said, I was having to fix pans of feed for some of my foals, but that was more to keep their noses out of mom's bucket than it was because they were hungry. I would give them a handful of 16% mare and foal feed, calf manna, and a soaked alfalfa cube. to make it all smushy and easy to chew on.


I won a bet once that I could raise a good looking baby out of any QH cross.

A friend bought a real piece of junk mare from a sale that was in foal.

That fall was foal was 26th out of over 200 colts at the MQHBF.

I won.


----------



## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Ripper said:


> I won a bet once that I could raise a good looking baby out of any QH cross.
> 
> A friend bought a real piece of junk mare from a sale that was in foal.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure what that has to do with sweet feed. Do you or did you pump your children full of sugar and take them to McDonalds for a fatburger and fries and set them up for diabetes and heart and arterial disease?

And honestly - your statement you can raise a good looking baby out of ANY QH cross destroys any credibility you might have. No breeder that has any clue at all would never make a statement like that. Hopefully prospective breeders that read here can separate those which people to listen to and which not...


----------



## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Ripper's comment about QH cross foals made me want to post about my own observations.

I had read that foals are the only horses you can feed free-choice grain. They don't over eat on it like every other horse will. 

I have raised a grand total of one foal, but I tell you what, I think nutrition is a BIG part of raising a foal to it's fullest potential.

My mare is a 15.1 Missouri Fox Trotter. She came pregnant by a QH stallion whom I've met and was very average in size and height. Probably in the 15.1 range, certainly not huge or tall.

I was very anal about feeding the mare when pregnant and then creep feeding the foal (Purina Ultium Growth) and now my "foal" is now 15.2 at 21 months of age. The string test puts him at 16.1 at maturity. He's taller than his mom, my Mustang gelding and his sire already.

I don't know where the "tall" came from but I am guessing it is because it is in his genetic make up somewhere and it is coming out due to optimal nutrition. He's stocky and muscular too, even though he was gelded at 5 months. 

I know it is not good to push growth on a horse. And I haven't been trying to do that. He only gets about 1 lbs of grain a day, and ample high quality hay. Either alfalfa/grass mix or alfalfa. And a vitamin/mineral supplement. And everyone is impressed with not only his height but substance.

When I had the vet out a couple months back he asked me if I had been riding him yet and I had to remind the vet he wasn't even two yet!

I know another lady who raises registered Paints and her foals are narrow and undermuscled and not as tall as my QH/Fox Trotter cross. She doesn't have the money to feed them optimally and it shows in their lack of sized and muscle. :-(

Here is my baby at 20 months. And keep in mind he is only half QH.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

In feeding you have to address the market.

Well developed young hores sell and sell for good money.

Oh...you will be keeping the foal???

Why do you not want a foal to develop to its full potential???


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

trailhorserider said:


> Ripper's comment about QH cross foals made me want to post about my own observations.
> 
> I had read that foals are the only horses you can feed free-choice grain. They don't over eat on it like every other horse will.
> 
> ...


I gelded my foals just before they were weaned or, at 12 weeks.

I learned it is in the feed as much as blood.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

Faceman said:


> I'm not sure what that has to do with sweet feed. Do you or did you pump your children full of sugar and take them to McDonalds for a fatburger and fries and set them up for diabetes and heart and arterial disease?
> 
> And honestly - your statement you can raise a good looking baby out of ANY QH cross destroys any credibility you might have. No breeder that has any clue at all would never make a statement like that. Hopefully prospective breeders that read here can separate those which people to listen to and which not...


To bad you feel that way.

This is who taut me.

American Quarter Horse Hall of Fame & Museum: Henry J. Wiescamp

His dear friend Floyd is who made the bet.


----------



## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

We put out a separate pan for our babies, it's mixed sweet feed and mare and foal.


----------



## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Isn't there some sort of disease or condition a foal can get if given too much proteins & starch (epigi...something like that), where their joints swell up? I thought years back, it was shown overfeeding foals grain was the cause so creep feeding ceased? Just seems to me I read this somewhere....I could be wrong.


----------



## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Ofergawdsake Ripper. There are more ways to do things than just yours ... or Hank's.

It's ok for people to disagree with you. 

imo

I do like to creep feed, but acknowledge that it isn't the only way to raise a foal.


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Wares - your thinking of epiphysitis. And you are correct in part. It's growth to quick for their body to keep up with to put it simply... and that has been tied to diet.


----------



## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Ripper said:


> To bad you feel that way.
> 
> This is who taut me.
> 
> ...


I don't mean any animosity, but you have me in stitches now. Wiescamp was notorious for his selection of breeding stock. He NEVER would make a statement like "I could raise a good looking baby out of any QH cross". If that is who "taut" you, you should have listened to him a bit closer than you apparently did...


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

texasgal said:


> Ofergawdsake Ripper. There are more ways to do things than just yours ... or Hank's.
> 
> It's ok for people to disagree with you.
> 
> ...


Interesting take....

I have never said anyone's way was wrong.

I just stated the way I did things and what worked for me.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

Faceman said:


> I don't mean any animosity, but you have me in stitches now. Wiescamp was notorious for his selection of breeding stock. He NEVER would make a statement like "I could raise a good looking baby out of any QH cross". If that is who "taut" you, you should have listened to him a bit closer than you apparently did...


Know Hank well did ya????


----------



## Delacy (Aug 30, 2011)

Ripper said:


> Know Hank well did ya????


 Well enough to know that he NEVER condoned cross breeding...


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

Delacy said:


> Well enough to know that he NEVER condoned cross breeding...


LOL....:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Ripper said:


> Interesting take....
> 
> I have never said anyone's way was wrong.
> 
> I just stated the way I did things and what worked for me.


... and then proceed to argue with anyone who disagree with you ...


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

A horse's intestines evolved to process grasses, hays, twigs, and even some bark. It has never been designed to process high levels of sugars and starches and many of the grains that are included in a sweet feed.

Just because it was common practice 20 years ago when you were breeding halter horses to coop a foal up in a stall for ~20 hours a day and stuff their gut full of sugars and starches and anything else that worked to make them grow faster and look more "mature" by the time they were a yearling doesn't mean that it was healthy or safe for them.

OP, if you want to creep feed the foal, then just give the mare plenty of hay at a level where the foal can get his/her head in too. If the mare or foal seem to need something more, then I would add something that was actually _nutritionally designed_ for lactating mares and/or foals.


----------



## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I have researched physitis (epiphysitis) a bit because I was raising my first foal and was worried about it. From what I have read, the modern thought is that it is due to the wrong balance of nutrients more than too many nutrients. Yes, you definitely don't want them overweight, but from what I have read a foal is more likely to get physitis from the wrong balance of nutrients rather than just too many calories.

The lady I know who raises Paints has had problems with physitis in her colt who is just slightly older than mine even though he is on the lean side. She cut back to feeding him only grass hay and more exercise and seems to have it under control. I still think it's because he is lacking something in his diet rather than getting too much feed. Like I said, the colt is lean.

This is my gelding from today (better picture than earlier). He was born with a deformed cannon bone on one leg but all this time he has never had physitis problems (knock on wood).

I honestly think it's the good hay, small amounts of Purina Ultium and a vitamin/mineral supplement (because I don't feed him the amount of Ultium they recommend on the bag).

At the very very least, I think a foal should have the best hay available and a vitamin/mineral supplement.

This is his natural shine on his summer coat coming in. No fat supplements and no Show Sheen. :lol:


----------



## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Delacy said:


> Well enough to know that he NEVER condoned cross breeding...


I really don't "get" the hatred for cross breeding. The AQHA hasn't been around all that long have they? What, maybe 50 years? What where Quarter Horses before that? A bunch of grades and cross breds right? So someone comes along and forms a registry and calls it a breed and all of a sudden those horses are better than the crosses they originated from?

I "get" registries. If I were breeding horses I would want to keep track of their bloodlines. But Quarter Horses as a breed haven't been around all that long. I'm sure just a few generations back they are made up of grades and crosses. Right?


----------



## Delacy (Aug 30, 2011)

trailhorserider said:


> I really don't "get" the hatred for cross breeding. The AQHA hasn't been around all that long have they? What, maybe 50 years? What where Quarter Horses before that? A bunch of grades and cross breds right? So someone comes along and forms a registry and calls it a breed and all of a sudden those horses are better than the crosses they originated from?
> 
> I "get" registries. If I were breeding horses I would want to keep track of their bloodlines. But Quarter Horses as a breed haven't been around all that long. I'm sure just a few generations back they are made up of grades and crosses. Right?


Wrong. The Quarter horse as a breed started in the 17th century, so thats a little bit more than a few generations back. They were bred from imported English TBs and horses than were mainly Iberian, Arabians and Barbs. Hardly mutts or unknown cross breeds.

I'm not against cross breeding as long as it's done with thought in mind, but having owned several Weiscamp bred horses, I do know that Mr. Weiscamp never stood for crossing outside of the breed.


----------



## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

Here's our last obese colt that got fed sweet feed, lol.




























Different strokes for different folks.


----------



## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Delacy said:


> Wrong. The Quarter horse as a breed started in the 17th century, so thats a little bit more than a few generations back. They were bred from imported English TBs and horses than were mainly Iberian, Arabians and Barbs. Hardly mutts or unknown cross breeds.
> 
> I'm not against cross breeding as long as it's done with thought in mind, but having owned several Weiscamp bred horses, I do know that Mr. Weiscamp never stood for crossing outside of the breed.


I know 0% about Mr. Weiscamp. But I do know the registry hasn't been around very long at all (in the whole scheme of things). And so what if they go back to the 17th century? You can trace any cross bred out of registered parents back to the 17th century as well. I could probably trace my foal back that far through his mother, who is a registered Missouri Fox Trotter. And if I had a copy of his QH sire's papers, I could do that on his side as well. 

It seems to be that a lot of Quarter Horses have Thoroughbred VERY recently on their papers. And it seems like I have heard that some strains of QH even have a little draft in them. I don't know how accurate that is, but that is what I have heard. Percheron perhaps?

I thought they were basically ranch horses with some Thoroughbred blood. And there's nothing wrong with that. That's what makes American breeds great. They are a melting pot. But they are hardly a "pure" breed. Maybe eventually if they don't allow out-crossing. 

Do they still allow out-crossing to Thoroughbreds?


----------



## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

oh vair oh said:


> Here's our last obese colt that got fed sweet feed, lol.
> 
> Different strokes for different folks.


He's beautiful!


----------



## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

Quarter horse registry only allows out-crossings to TBs. Not even paints unless they are double registered.


----------



## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

It was the Hancock bloodline that had Percheron:

*Hancock Horses .com**|**ARTICLES**|**Franklin Reynolds Tells... the Joe Hancock Story**|**September 1957 QH Journal

Actually, I think that's a great contribution to the breed. I wish more modern Quarter Horses had good bones and feet like the photos of Joe Hancock.

That's what I love about my BLM Mustang. He looks like he has just a touch of draft in him. 

See that's where crossing can be good. Sometimes it brings positive attributes and vigor to the genetics. 

And I would assume all the breeders who keep bringing Thoroughbred into the QH feel they are improving the breed. Right? Although I personally would rather own a solid ranch horse that something with a high percentage of Thoroughbred blood. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


----------



## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

The registry didn't close the outcroppings until a few years ago I believe... They mainly use the TB bloodlines for the english horses or the speed horses - they are appendix. The true blood western horses are very much bred in line with each other, and then the foundation quarters are another matter completely.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

trailhorserider said:


> I know 0% about Mr. Weiscamp. But I do know the registry hasn't been around very long at all (in the whole scheme of things). And so what if they go back to the 17th century? You can trace any cross bred out of registered parents back to the 17th century as well. I could probably trace my foal back that far through his mother, who is a registered Missouri Fox Trotter. And if I had a copy of his QH sire's papers, I could do that on his side as well.
> 
> It seems to be that a lot of Quarter Horses have Thoroughbred VERY recently on their papers. And it seems like I have heard that some strains of QH even have a little draft in them. I don't know how accurate that is, but that is what I have heard. Percheron perhaps?
> 
> ...


Hank line bred.

In his last years he saw his most progressive cross was a full sister to a full brother.

The start of the Skipper W line.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

oh vair oh said:


> Here's our last obese colt that got fed sweet feed, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Love him!!


----------



## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

I also don't recommend feeding Sweet feed to youngsters.They are at higher risk for developing epiphisitis/DOD. There is much healthier/safer feeds out there!! FS895 Sweet feed is kinda a catch all phrase as there is different quality/types of sweet feeds. It is the Molasses in many of these mixes that is most harmful.Sweet Feed for Horses


----------



## FaydesMom (Mar 25, 2012)

Delacy said:


> Wrong. The Quarter horse as a breed started in the 17th century, so thats a little bit more than a few generations back. They were bred from imported English TBs and horses than were mainly Iberian, Arabians and Barbs. Hardly mutts or unknown cross breeds.
> 
> I'm not against cross breeding as long as it's done with thought in mind, but having owned several Weiscamp bred horses*, I do know that Mr. Weiscamp never stood for crossing outside of the breed*.


Where did Ripper say "outside" the breed? He said: "could raise a good looking baby out of any* QH cross*."

/sheesh, you guys sure argue a lot. :-(


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

paintedpastures said:


> I also don't recommend feeding Sweet feed to youngsters.They are at higher risk for developing epiphisitis/DOD. There is much healthier/safer feeds out there!! FS895 Sweet feed is kinda a catch all phrase as there is different quality/types of sweet feeds. It is the Molasses in many of these mixes that is most harmful.Sweet Feed for Horses


75% in agreement.

I have my own blend......and it is a cut back on the "sweet" in sweet feed.

I guess in today's world it would be sweet feed lite......


----------



## FaydesMom (Mar 25, 2012)

paintedpastures said:


> I also don't recommend feeding Sweet feed to youngsters.*They are at higher risk for developing epiphisitis/DOD.* There is much healthier/safer feeds out there!! FS895 Sweet feed is kinda a catch all phrase as there is different quality/types of sweet feeds. It is the Molasses in many of these mixes that is most harmful.Sweet Feed for Horses


And if they were raised out in the field instead of standing in a stall for 23 1/2 hours a day, they would not have nearly the development problems seen in today's babies.

/shrug

Different strokes for different folks, as has already been said.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

FaydesMom said:


> Where did Ripper say "outside" the breed? He said: "could raise a good looking baby out of any* QH cross*."
> 
> /sheesh, you guys sure argue a lot. :-(


BTW...I am....girl.

That is why the old boys shared with me.

Still I was young and it was a hard, although I do not complain.

The QH world was good to me.

This time I will have the money.

I will have to see how I do.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

FaydesMom said:


> And if they were raised out in the field instead of standing in a stall for 23 1/2 hours a day, they would not have nearly the development problems seen in today's babies.
> 
> /shrug
> 
> Different strokes for different folks, as has already been said.


Agree....

Just look at children in third world counties.

BTW....my foals were worked for 3 to 4 hours a day.


----------



## FaydesMom (Mar 25, 2012)

Ripper said:


> BTW...I am....girl.
> 
> That is why the old boys shared with me.


 Pardon my slip-up, I usually try to check for that before I post. 

Your words just always strike me as the kind of info* I *got from the "old boys" when I was just making my way into the AQHA and APHA worlds way back when. (I refuse to state how far "way back when" is, just say I'm old enough.) 

I'm sorry to say I assumed. :-(


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

FaydesMom said:


> Pardon my slip-up, I usually try to check for that before I post.
> 
> Your words just always strike me as the kind of info* I *got from the "old boys" when I was just making my way into the AQHA and APHA worlds way back when. (I refuse to state how far "way back when" is, just say I'm old enough.)
> 
> I'm sorry to say I assumed. :-(


Heavens....no problem......:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

There is nothing wrong with getting info from the "old boys". The problem comes when people become barnacles. They cling to what they know, and refuse to even hold the notion that something new could be better.

There is plenty of scientific evidence to prove that sweet feed does very little positive for horses. If you are so wary of science, perhaps the internet is not the place for you...


----------



## candandy49 (Jan 16, 2011)

Holy Smokes, this thread went from "creeping feeding foals" to Quarter Horse breeding icons like Hank Wiescamp.

Having bred my QH mare 3 times I never felt it necessary to provide a creep feeding set-up for any of her 3 foals. They all fed from her grain tub feeding we gave them 3 times daily. We increased my mare's feed ration to a third more at each graining to allow for her babies share of her ration. Plus all the top quality Bermuda Grass Hay they could eat 24/7. Never once fed any of my horses Alfalfa or a Timothy/Alfalfa mix.

There are QH bloodlines that stretch back to the Steel Dust horses, also Hancock, Poco Bueno, etc.. These bloodlines include Skipper W, Leo, Go Man Go and many other foundation bloodlines. The most prevalant TB bloodline in the present day QH is Three Bars, but I have traced my own registered QH mare back to Man O War on her topside.


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Ripper said:


> ...
> 
> BTW....my foals were worked for 3 to 4 hours a day.


So you would rather stuff your foals full of sweet feed which has been proven not good for them and work them into the ground? Really good way to end up with a horse that is useless at an extremely young age...


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

NdAppy said:


> So you would rather stuff your foals full of sweet feed which has been proven not good for them and work them into the ground? Really good way to end up with a horse that is useless at an extremely young age...


Yet...thay went on to ride to be champions.

And producing broodmares.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

candandy49 said:


> Holy Smokes, this thread went from "creeping feeding foals" to Quarter Horse breeding icons like Hank Wiescamp.
> 
> Having bred my QH mare 3 times I never felt it necessary to provide a creep feeding set-up for any of her 3 foals. They all fed from her grain tub feeding we gave them 3 times daily. We increased my mare's feed ration to a third more at each graining to allow for her babies share of her ration. Plus all the top quality Bermuda Grass Hay they could eat 24/7. Never once fed any of my horses Alfalfa or a Timothy/Alfalfa mix.
> 
> There are QH bloodlines that stretch back to the Steel Dust horses, also Hancock, Poco Bueno, etc.. These bloodlines include Skipper W, Leo, Go Man Go and many other foundation bloodlines. The most prevalant TB bloodline in the present day QH is Three Bars, but I have traced my own registered QH mare back to Man O War on her topside.


Bloodlines that far back are in most quarter horses.

The second dam is as far back as I go when buying decisions are made.


----------



## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Ripper said:


> Yet...thay went on to ride to be champions.
> 
> And producing broodmares.


Care to share some names of these horses you raised to be champions?


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

Chiilaa said:


> Care to share some names of these horses you raised to be champions?


I will share one I creep feed.

Impressive Tommy.

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/impressive+tommy

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/she+is+no+joy


----------



## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

FaydesMom said:


> /sheesh, you guys sure argue a lot. :-(


We're horse people, two people = 3 opinions, it's just the way it is


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

If you want to creep feed...you will if not... you will not.

Both views have been expressed.


----------



## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Ripper said:


> I will share one I creep feed.
> 
> Impressive Tommy.
> 
> Impressive Tommy Quarter Horse



Surprised He never Had trouble with HYPP attacks with that feed & excercise regime. :shock:


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

paintedpastures said:


> Surprised He never Had trouble with HYPP attacks with that feed & excercise regime. :shock:


Nope.

He was fine.

Look at his get.


----------



## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

So it's safe to assume that your knowledge is from that era. No one is saying that it is wrong to know about how it was done back before we knew what we do now. I bet you looked back at horse breeders 40 years before your time and shook your head too.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

Chiilaa said:


> So it's safe to assume that your knowledge is from that era. No one is saying that it is wrong to know about how it was done back before we knew what we do now. I bet you looked back at horse breeders 40 years before your time and shook your head too.


No...I listened... used what I could.

Remembered it all...and it all came to use.


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

What gets me is that you claim that this regimen produces "champion" horses. What you fail to mention is that they are champion halter horses, not performance horses, not work horses....._halter_ horses. Horses who's sole purpose in life is to stand in a stall 20 hours a day and put on as much bulk as they possibly can so that they can look like the Schwarzenegger of horses.

You point out one of your foals that grew up on your regimen that went on to have a long, sound, healthy, and successful life doing something more than being led around an arena or being retired at the age of 4-5 to do nothing but pop out more foals and I might consider changing my tune.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

smrobs said:


> What gets me is that you claim that this regimen produces "champion" horses. What you fail to mention is that they are champion halter horses, not performance horses, not work horses....._halter_ horses. Horses who's sole purpose in life is to stand in a stall 20 hours a day and put on as much bulk as they possibly can so that they can look like the Schwarzenegger of horses.
> 
> You point out one of your foals that grew up on your regimen that went on to have a long, sound, healthy, and successful life doing something more than being led around an arena or being retired at the age of 4-5 to do nothing but pop out more foals and I might consider changing my tune.


I think I did that...


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Nope, you didn't.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

smrobs said:


> What gets me is that you claim that this regimen produces "champion" horses. What you fail to mention is that they are champion halter horses, not performance horses, not work horses....._halter_ horses. Horses who's sole purpose in life is to stand in a stall 20 hours a day and put on as much bulk as they possibly can so that they can look like the Schwarzenegger of horses.
> 
> You point out one of your foals that grew up on your regimen that went on to have a long, sound, healthy, and successful life doing something more than being led around an arena or being retired at the age of 4-5 to do nothing but pop out more foals and I might consider changing my tune.


And BTW.....

It alone does not produce champion horses...nor, did I claim that.

What it does is get the most the growth out of the foal.

And since most growth comes in the foals first year.....size does matter.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

smrobs said:


> Nope, you didn't.


Well...what do you want???


----------



## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

(I don't believe I'm about to defend Ripper. lol.)

Actually, Ripper has consistantly said that raising halter horses 30-something years ago is where her knowledge comes from. She has never (that I have seen) claimed to have bred, raised, or trained riding horses.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

texasgal said:


> (I don't believe I'm about to defend Ripper. lol.)
> 
> Actually, Ripper has consistantly said that raising halter horses 30-something years ago is where her knowledge comes from. She has never (that I have seen) claimed to have bred, raised, or trained riding horses.


Nope....I never got ON a horse.

However...many of my foals when on to ride.

Snaffle bit was huge in Michigan at the time.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

She Is No Joy

Heza Choice.

This horses both won the MQHBF.


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Which is exactly my point. You raised halter horses, not riding horse, not performance horses, not trail horses, not average backyard horses. _Halter_ horses, where the entire point was to get them as large as possible as quickly as possible...by any means necessary and let their longevity as effective and healthy riding horses be damned because that's not what you wanted anyway.

Overfeeding a young horse with sweet feeds is just as bad as overfeeding a young child on McDonald's and birthday cake. Yep, they get big, but they aren't healthy and it does long term damage to their metabolism, internal organs, and joints, which you probably wouldn't notice if you aren't expecting them to do more than stand in a stall and be lunged twice a day.

Most people don't want or need halter horses, they want horses that will be healthy and sound for the next 20+ years so that they can have a long career as a _riding_ partner.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

smrobs said:


> Which is exactly my point. You raised halter horses, not riding horse, not performance horses, not trail horses, not average backyard horses. _Halter_ horses, where the entire point was to get them as large as possible as quickly as possible...by any means necessary and let their longevity as effective and healthy riding horses be damned because that's not what you wanted anyway.
> 
> Overfeeding a young horse with sweet feeds is just as bad as overfeeding a young child on McDonald's and birthday cake. Yep, they get big, but they aren't healthy and it does long term damage to their metabolism, internal organs, and joints, which you probably wouldn't notice if you aren't expecting them to do more than stand in a stall and be lunged twice a day.
> 
> Most people don't want or need halter horses, they want horses that will be healthy and sound for the next 20+ years so that they can have a long career as a _riding_ partner.


You don't think winning the MQHBF in English and Western Pleasure is not performing????

Are you kidding me???


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

smrobs said:


> Which is exactly my point. You raised halter horses, not riding horse, not performance horses, not trail horses, not average backyard horses. _Halter_ horses, where the entire point was to get them as large as possible as quickly as possible...by any means necessary and let their longevity as effective and healthy riding horses be damned because that's not what you wanted anyway.
> 
> Overfeeding a young horse with sweet feeds is just as bad as overfeeding a young child on McDonald's and birthday cake. Yep, they get big, but they aren't healthy and it does long term damage to their metabolism, internal organs, and joints, which you probably wouldn't notice if you aren't expecting them to do more than stand in a stall and be lunged twice a day.
> 
> Most people don't want or need halter horses, they want horses that will be healthy and sound for the next 20+ years so that they can have a long career as a _riding_ partner.


You are right....

I have not nor, ever will raise average horses.

Really folks...I do not care how you feed your stock.


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

And exactly how long was their riding career before they were retired?

Did they ever do any _actual_ performance work? And, no, coming from a performance background, I don't consider pleasure classes a "performance" class.

And considering I'm not from Michigan, no, the MQHBF doesn't mean a whole lot to me.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

smrobs said:


> And exactly how long was their riding career before they were retired?
> 
> Did they ever do any _actual_ performance work? And, no, coming from a performance background, I don't consider pleasure classes a "performance" class.
> 
> And considering I'm not from Michigan, no, the MQHBF doesn't mean a whole lot to me.


Educate yourself.....then ask me.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

This is just a randon two year old class.

It is very hard.


----------



## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Ripper, you posted at one point that you attribute your knowledge to LISTENING and REMEMBERING. You claim to be an expert because you filled some creep feeders on some winning halter horses some 30 years ago.

So much has changed in 30 years. I suspect those horses you raised back then wouldn't even place in halter classes in the present (not saying that is a good thing). The market has changed, people's expectations have changed. The horses have changed. Knowledge of feed and nutritional requirements has chnaged.

We are never too old to learn and that LISTENING thing applies today as well. I'm sure you probably have alot to offer, but you should be open to the possibility that you could still learn some things. People are less likely to take you seriously when you come off like you know it all.

Just a friendly perspective.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

texasgal said:


> Ripper. . You posted at one point that you attribute your knowledge to LISTENING and REMEMBERING. You claim to be an expert because you filled some creep feeders on some winning halter horses some 30 years ago.
> 
> So much has changed in 30 years. I suspect those horses you raised back then wouldn't even place in halter classes in the present (not saying that is a good thing). The market has changed, people's expectations have changed. The horses have changed. Knowledge of feed and nutritional requirements has chnaged.
> 
> ...


I am talking to people.

I just bought a three in one deal.

LOL Hubby did not think $47,000 was a deal.:lol::lol::lol:

We will see what happens.

Oh...the foal has been creep fed.....from day two.


----------



## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

"I don't consider pleasure classes a "performance" class."

I almost choked on my cereal. Are you seriously unaware of how much work and training goes into a WP or EP horse? Especially at a world level?


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

oh vair oh said:


> "I don't consider pleasure classes a "performance" class."
> 
> I almost choked on my cereal. Are you seriously unaware of how much work and training goes into a WP or EP horse? Especially at a world level?


Yes...and it starts with working as a weaning.


----------



## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

These are not "average" horses. These are show stock that have been specifically bred for their purpose. From day 1 they are put onto schedules of diet, training, and grooming. My babies get creep fed, they also get trained and handled every day. When they become weanlings, they will get trained even more. When they become yearlings, they will become polished. Yearling lunge-line and yearling in-hand trail are no joke. If you want to compete at the worlds, you got to treat your horse like a show horse. And if you don't want to treat your horse like a show horse, more power to you, but you also don't get to bash people who do. It's a different world.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

To anyone the feels pleasure horses are not athletic.

The next time you are outside.... run...as far as you can.

Now, on the way back....run in slow motion.

See which one is harder.:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

It IS a different world. And most of the bashing is coming from one that believes it is the ONLY world. Not everyone lives in that world .. nor do we want to.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

oh vair oh said:


> These are not "average" horses. These are show stock that have been specifically bred for their purpose. From day 1 they are put onto schedules of diet, training, and grooming. My babies get creep fed, they also get trained and handled every day. When they become weanlings, they will get trained even more. When they become yearlings, they will become polished. Yearling lunge-line and yearling in-hand trail are no joke. If you want to compete at the worlds, you got to treat your horse like a show horse. And if you don't want to treat your horse like a show horse, more power to you, but you also don't get to bash people who do. It's a different world.


And I know this works.

I start with "flexing" at four or, five months.

They have to know how to handle their bodies.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

texasgal said:


> It IS a different world. And most of the bashing is coming from one that believes it is the ONLY world. Not everyone lives in that world .. nor do we want to.


I believe in raising quality foals.


----------



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Ripper said:


> I believe in raising quality foals.


Then why are you raising halter horses? They're fairly useless, regardless of the breed.

I'd hardly call what looks like a steroided beefer on demitasse cup feet a 'quality' horse.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

Speed Racer said:


> Then why are you raising halter horses? They're fairly useless, regardless of the breed.
> 
> I'd hardly call what looks like a steroided beefer on demitasse cup feet a 'quality' horse.


Opinions vary.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I think this thread is on creep feeding, right?


----------



## FaydesMom (Mar 25, 2012)

Speed Racer said:


> Then why are you raising halter horses? *They're fairly useless, regardless of the breed.*
> 
> I'd hardly call what looks like a steroided beefer on demitasse cup feet a 'quality' horse.


That's funny, because a LOT of people pay huge money for halter horses, as adults and foals. And most of those who win in the halter ring, go on to show and win on the rail. 

Just because you "don't want to be" in that world, stop knocking what works just because it is different from what YOU believe.

From you name, I can only guess you run "can chasers"? If so, talk about a useless horse after a few years running. Watch even the big rodeo's with the "world known names" of barrel riders...their horses are rearing, bucking charging fools.


/done with this stupid thread.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

FaydesMom said:


> That's funny, because a LOT of people pay huge money for halter horses, as adults and foals. And most of those who win in the halter ring, go on to show and win on the rail.
> 
> Just because you "don't want to be" in that world, stop knocking what works just because it is different from what YOU believe.
> 
> ...


I just paid a lot for a baby and mare bred back.

But, that cross had two world and three Congress winners in the last five years. And not all halter.

They were all creep fed and the baby is being creep fed now.

If not...I would have not bought them.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

America's Quarter Horse Health: Creep Feeding Provides Needed Nutrients to Nursing Foals

http://www.horsefeedblog.com/2012/02/creep-feeding-foals/

http://www.clemson.edu/psapublishing/pages/ADVS/LL21.PDF

http://foxtrotters.tripod.com/foalcare.htm


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Pointing out we never said creep feeding was bad... we said free choice feeding *sweet feed* is a bad idea.


----------



## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

As for halter horses you can't compare those halter horses of today like those from when Ripper showed & fitted. The early eighties there was much less specialization & many your halter horses went on & performed in numerous other events.It was the time where there was more versatility in horses, alot more AQHA champions titles as horses competed in several events.
I show, but many of those also showing in our clubs are Youth & Amateur exhibitors so that is what they want in a horse,one that can be shown in variety of events. Will those horses be competive at world level in halter not likely but do well enough for the venues they do show.They are more like the horses you saw back in Ripper's show world,Yes I'm from that era too & that's the type of horse i'd like to see. As for Ripper's fitting & feed practices I differ:wink:.So each to there own,there is more than one way to be feeding for success. Yes I like halter horses, I have bred & raised superior halter horse & had superior halter horse producers. No, not typical of the horses of pics you see in these journals & ones create the sterotypes people seem to have of all halter horses.My halter mare is 13 yrs yes she is retired from showing ,but not to everyday riding.She has never had unsoundness issues she is is our go to horse,miss reliable..


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

Poseidon said:


> What is the point of feeding sweet feed to a foal so young? And free choice at that. IMO, a foal only needs access to quality hay, water, and minerals.


Yes...creep feeding was said to be bad.


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Read it again Ripper. It Po says *sweet feed* not creep feed.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

NdAppy said:


> Read it again Ripper. It Po says *sweet feed* not creep feed.


I did see that.


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Unlike some of you would apparently like to believe, I am not some naive little teenager that has seen too many youboob videos or read too many poorly written blogs on the subject.

My Dad was in the ApHC and AQHA show world for a total of about 30 years, raising and training everything from halter to WP to reining to roping to working cow horses...horses that won local, national, and world titles. I know exactly how much work goes into training a WP horse...but that still does not make it a performance horse, that makes it a ridden horse.

As for the people spending lots of money on halter horses....people spend a lot of money for a peice of toast with the supposed face of Jesus on it. Doesn't mean that it's actually worth anything.

You never did answer my question on how long the horse's ridden career was. Or, even better, how long did it live? Did it live out it's entire life completely healthy and sound?

But that's okay. You guys can keep your beef horses that are crippled and/or retired by the age of 10 and I'll keep my horses that are allowed to mature at their own rate and go on to lead productive lives well into their 20's and 30's.


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Like I said, no one said creep feeding is bad. We said free choice feeding sweet feed is bad...


----------



## Kayella (Feb 11, 2012)

Oh my goodness this thread has gotten crazy. I've only dealt with baby goats, and they were creep fed from day one with a nutritional pelleted feed. My breeder creep feeds her babies with Nutrena Safe Choice, which is for all age groups. Creep feed your foal with a mare&foal feed, not sweet feed. The baby will eat when it wants, and feed from mama when it wants. Supplying an additional nutrition source that is balanced for a foal will not harm them. You're not shoving feed down its throat forcing it to eat. If it eats the creep feed, then it does. If it doesn't, oh well. I have no experience with creep feeding foals, but that is how I would do it. Get a feed that is specifically meant to be a creep feed.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

Kayella said:


> Oh my goodness this thread has gotten crazy. I've only dealt with baby goats, and they were creep fed from day one with a nutritional pelleted feed. My breeder creep feeds her babies with Nutrena Safe Choice, which is for all age groups. Creep feed your foal with a mare&foal feed, not sweet feed. The baby will eat when it wants, and feed from mama when it wants. Supplying an additional nutrition source that is balanced for a foal will not harm them. You're not shoving feed down its throat forcing it to eat. If it eats the creep feed, then it does. If it doesn't, oh well. I have no experience with creep feeding foals, but that is how I would do it. Get a feed that is specifically meant to be a creep feed.


My mix is real close Purina Molene.


----------



## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

"but that still does not make it a performance horse, that makes it a ridden horse."

Well now I feel bad. After all those years of training my horses to sidepass, half pass, leg yield, pivot, turn on the forehand, roll back, 20 meter circle, counter canter, jog, extended trot, collected lope, two-track, and collect on a loose rein, all I have is a ridden horse. Guess all you Dressage people don't have performance horses either.  

This is just silly. I'm out of here.


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

FaydesMom said:


> If you look at benson's post, the "status" thingy at the bottom says: "benson2008 is Looking for some tips on weight gain for mare and foal"
> 
> If the foal is getting nutrition from creep feeding, mom is using less of her energy feeding foal and can then gain some weight herself.


Doesn't work that way! He will still take all the milk the mare provides. 

To many people over feed foals and youngsters giving them growth spurts which leads to leg problems - especially club foot/feet in a young foal.

I would *never - ever * feed a foal or yearling sweet feed I would just have it on a balancer designed for foals.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

Foxhunter said:


> Doesn't work that way! He will still take all the milk the mare provides.
> 
> To many people over feed foals and youngsters giving them growth spurts which leads to leg problems - especially club foot/feet in a young foal.
> 
> I would *never - ever *feed a foal or yearling sweet feed I would just have it on a balancer designed for foals.


Nope.

I have seen my mares dipping milk.


----------



## PaintedShanty (Dec 28, 2011)

FaydesMom said:


> That's funny, because a LOT of people pay huge money for halter horses, as adults and foals. And most of those who win in the halter ring, go on to show and win on the rail.
> 
> Just because you "don't want to be" in that world, stop knocking what works just because it is different from what YOU believe.
> 
> ...


Tell that to my 24 year old mare who ran barrels (successfully) for almost 20 years. She even has speed records that are still standing 10-15 years after she set them. Last year was her final year of gaming and she took her young rider to get Grand in Barrels, and Reserve in several other speed events at our county fair, they would've gone to State too had the rider been older.

And then just this last weekend earned Reserve in Showmanship, high blues in two pleasure classes, high blues in two equitation classes and a red (that was almost a blue) in another Equitation class with me.

She is one of the ONLY horses I've met that I'd feel comfortable putting an absolute beginner on - no questions asked.

And besides, the BEST can chasers are the ones that can go in with an experienced rider and clean up on the patterns, and then turn around and walk a kid through those same ones.


----------



## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

I was also offended by the "can chaser" comment. Just because you see some bad trainers/riders that allow their horses to get away with bad behaviors does not mean that the entire barrel racing world keeps insane horses that will run people over. 

Tell me one discipline that there aren't bad trainers/riders that let their horses get away with dangerous things.

I can't agree with the above comments about the difference in a halter horse's daily performance requirements, because I have never competed in halter and have no idea what it takes. But I will say that there are much more physically demanding disciplines.

I do know that I had to witness one of the most promising foals I've ever seen die of colic because his owner put him on free range sweet feed. 

It is absolutely narrow minded to try and say that one feeding method can be thanked for a horse's success when there are SO many aspects to what makes a good show/performance horse. 

I totally agree that feeding methods and understanding change. Heck, we always fed our horses heavy sweet feed several years ago. But now I would NEVER buy it. I have seen what it does to my horses and with better feeds being made now, it seems unecessary to take the risk. 

Just because Ripper has been lucky in not seeing any problems doesn't mean that it warrants taking a risk because someone once said it was ok. Thanks, but I'll let my horses show me what is best for their diets. Each one of them has a diet specified to them to give the /individual/ the best results. 

I would not free range any foal on feed as a personal choice. And truly, *just ask a vet* what is best for your foal instead of listening to a million opinions here and snobby, rude answers from people who feel they have all the right answers.


----------



## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

> If so, talk about a useless horse after a few years running. Watch even the big rodeo's with the "world known names" of barrel riders...their horses are rearing, bucking charging fools.


Useless horse? Excuse me? I ride a 16 year old mare that's been running barrels for a decade and she's the BEST trail horse you can ever ride. She's wonderful with children and everyone that meets her can't believe she's a 1D barrel and pole horse.

That comment is just ridiculous and absolute nonsense. And quite frankly. It's rude. We can sit here and bash on every single breed or horse, and every single discipline. But there are rules on this forum and bashing disciplines is against them. 

There are no bad horses. Just bad trainers. Doesn't matter the discipline.


----------



## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Good post,Thank-you thirteenAcres this thread has gotten out of hand. bottom line I think the OP can take home from all this is,Creep feeding Sweet feed doesn't come recommended by most.With more knowledge & advancement in equine nutrition there is more appropriate safe feeds for creep feeding youngsters.
As some of you may have took offence to can chaser comment,there is also those of us that take offence to the constant bashing of Halter & pleasure horses.Why do people find such fun in picking apart the different disciplines:-(
There is Bad examples of all out there,training,riding & feeding practices.More so in this age of specialization when you are seeing some things taken to the extreme:-(


----------



## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

> Why do people find such fun in picking apart the different discipline.


I'll never know. I think it's the whole "Anything you can do, I can do better" state of mind humans have. I enjoy all disciplines. I'm inspired by many different disciplines and I think we can learn a lot from taking aspects from every single one of them.


----------



## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Remember one of the greatest - The Flying Dutchman, born in 1846? 
The Flying Dutchman Thoroughbred
The heck with all this science baloney - I think we should feed the same creep feed they did back then. If it was good enough for The Flying Dutchman, it is good enough for our horses today. They fed them natural foods back then - hand scythed hay (no benzene from tractors), grain that was hand thrashed off the stalks and chaff, and good old pond water without chemicals and lots of squiggly little amoebae and paramecia. No sweet feeds, no "Molene", no chemical additives. Heck, if we are going to go back to outdated ways, why not go all the way back? Just saying...:wink:


----------



## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

paintedpastures said:


> Good post,Thank-you thirteenAcres this thread has gotten out of hand. bottom line I think the OP can take home from all this is,Creep feeding Sweet feed doesn't come recommended by most.With more knowledge & advancement in equine nutrition there is more appropriate safe feeds for creep feeding youngsters.
> As some of you may have took offence to can chaser comment,there is also those of us that take offence to the constant bashing of Halter & pleasure horses.Why do people find such fun in picking apart the different disciplines:-(
> There is Bad examples of all out there,training,riding & feeding practices.More so in this age of specialization when you are seeing some things taken to the extreme:-(


I have respect for any and all horse owners that love their horses and try and give them the best care and the best training. Even though I don't ride certain styles definitely doesn't mean I belittle that class of rider. I marvel at the sheen on a halter horse and the athletic conditioning of a jumper. No, I'll never do either of those, but I can appreciate the art.

And really, that is what any performance or show is about, isn't it? The art and beauty of a well cared for, healthy, happy horse. =)


----------



## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

FaydesMom said:


> From you name, I can only guess you run "can chasers"?


 I think her name is actually derived from the cartoon character, actually :wink:


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

This thread has crept so far away from the OP's request for advice on "creep feeding", that now it resembles a discipline bashing thread . Crept too far. 

I still don't know what "creep feeding" even is. (never having raised a baby)


----------



## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

You know. I have been in the professional game for too many years.... I have had to revise my ideas on proper feeding techniques many times over the years. It is foolish to think that, as a "big time" professional, I know it all. I depended on barn professionals to keep up with the upgrades information over the years. Even so, I had to learn new information about equine nutrition all of the time. To rely on the same info I knew for over 40 years is a serious, and dangerous, problem.

Equine nutrition is something that has been studied and researched extensively over the years. It is the responsibility of ALL horsepeople to stay up with the research and feed appropriately, IMHO. 

I know I have changed how I've done things several times over the years as new research has uncovered problems.

Creep feed sweet feed mixes to foals....not with today's knowledge.


----------

