# Laying Down while Tied up!



## Socket95 (Aug 3, 2009)

Hi there guys. I was wondering if any of you had any possible suggestions to a very bad habit and potentially serious issue that my horse has.
Long story...

My horse Socket is 13 years old. She's been tied up pretty much all her life without any problems. When we brought her home from the barn for the winter of '08, we decided not to tie her up at all so as not to put stress on her or her baby (she was pregnant at the time). We realize now that that was a terrible mistake.

We brought her back to the barn in the spring for a tune-up. It turned out that every time she was tied up, she would sit down, with all her weight against the tie, and pull. She broke loose every time. However, she only did this once the saddle was on and the girth was tightened.

Then one day, I had her tied to the hitching post outside. I decided to tie her there because I knew she couldn't break the hitching post, and plus I had a heavy duty halter on her. I knew it would work. I tightened the girth, stepped back, and the next thing I knew, she threw herself to the ground. She didn't even actually pull, she just slammed herself into the ground. It's terrible because there was so much strain on her neck against the tie. Then we had to cut her loose so she could get up without breaking her neck. Since then, the same scenario has happened several times. However, she ONLY does this once the saddle is on and the girth is done up. And, she doesn't do it once I've worked her in the round pen first. It seems like she only does it when she's got an extra spark of energy. But I don't want to have to work her every time before I ride for the rest of her life, especially since I ride almost every day.

I've thought of buying a pull back halter, but then I realized my horse was already used to a tonne of pressure on the poll, because she wears a crib collar. Plus, with Socket's temper, the pull back halter would only make her pull harder. 

I want to be able to tack her up by myself without someone standing there holding her every single time I tack up/ride. Many horses have died by breaking their necks from pulling so hard or sitting down while tied up. I don't know what to do.

Are there any suggestions?


----------



## LiveToJump (Jun 19, 2009)

Is it possible for you to put her in a stall while you tack her up? That way you don't have to tie her, and she can't run away from you either.


----------



## RedRoan (Mar 2, 2009)

Could this be a pain issue?


----------



## Socket95 (Aug 3, 2009)

I have no stall to put her in when she gets home from the barn. So sadly that's not an option. And no, I don't think it's a pain issue, because she doesn't do it if I've worked her first. And times when I haven't worked her, and just hopped right on, she rode just fine.


----------



## LiveToJump (Jun 19, 2009)

If the saddle is fitting well, and you can't find any tension or soreness in her back, then maybe try saddling her up in the round pen. This way, she can't go very far from you, but you don't have to risk tying her. I would start with that, and see how that goes.

Or tie her, and just tie it very very loose, so even if she were to sit down, it would not pull on her. 

When she sits, I might suggest using a dressage whip or lunge whip and tap her lightly on the hind up to encourage her to stand back up. 

I've never had to deal with an issue quite like this, but that is how I would approach the situation.

Just be sure that nothing is hurting her or making her uncomfortable first.


----------



## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Can you teach her to ground tie? My arab had a really bad experience when tied, and freaks ut if he feels stuck, so we taught him to ground tie and he never gets tied up anymore.


----------



## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

We start everyone being tied with a Blocker Tie ring. They are amazing things at teaching a horse to stand tied. I'm a full believer that they can teach any horse to stand tied.
If its not a physical thing like a sleep issue. Than I'm betting it would help. 
I have a 3 year old who has fallen asleep and fell down, but thats not a training issue.


----------



## Scoutrider (Jun 4, 2009)

_I agree with Vidaloco. As long as it isn't a heath/pain issue, give the Blocker tie ring a try._ 

I wasn't a believer at first, everything in me shrieked "GIMMICK! STAY AWAY!!" I actually got mine for trailering and tying to my trailer, a tiny, aluminum stock trailer that even my large ponies (Non-problem tie-ers, but I'm cautious, lol) could pull over if they got scared. They work wonders on problem horses, and are worth the peace of mind for quieter horses.


----------



## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Teach her how to ground tie...end of story...

Or suck it up and do the ground work...it sounds like she actually needs it to stretch her back muscles; If she's not doing this pulling when you are doing the ground work, then it does sound related...


----------



## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

I have a gelding who has to be cinched very gently. He will laydown if I tighten it too fast or hard. I believe he is holding his breath to the extent he cannot move. Perhaps it's a nerve issue or some other physical problem. I do not tie this horse to saddle him. I do loop the lead around the post/rail several times so he doesn't think he's free, but he won't get into trouble if he falls. I also cannot back him directly after cinching up. I have to lead him foward first and walk him a lil bit, tighten a bit, walk again. With him I think it's the western cinch as he was trained HUS and prolly had more english work than western. Or maybe it's cuz he got pasture fat here and wasn't before. LOL Beats me, I just work with him.


----------



## charlene1985 (Aug 4, 2009)

We have a horse that does almost the same thing but she hasnt flung herself to the ground. We had no problems like that and we had a friend come out to the house and they tacked her up and we are guessing it hurt her because now we cant tie her to cinch her, you can cross tie her to groom and put the saddle on but when u go to tighten it up we put her on a lead rope and just hold the lead rope while i tighten after the initial tighten we can re-cross tie her and shes fine. There is a possibility that one time you hurt her accidentally or made her uncomfortable. (horses can be good at masking pain and uncomfortability) Thats what happened to our mare might give u some insight


----------



## ajegberg (Apr 16, 2008)

I have often wondered what it is that causes this reaction, but I ALWAYS make it a rule of thumb to NEVER tighten the girth on any horse until they have had a chance to walk a bit first. The number of times that older or well-broke horses, who have never previously exhibited being cinchy, react so violently to the girth being tightened, really has me curious as to what exactly is the reasoning. 

I have watched horses do exactly as you have described, as well as rear straight up or flip themselves over backwards. It often quickly becomes an issue for the horse to even see the saddle coming or lay down as the saddle is placed upon their back.

There was a horse at a show who was stabled across the aisle from my horse. They cinched the horse in the stall and as soon as he stepped out of his stall he laid down. Unfortunately, he was wearing shoes and the aisle was concrete. The poor horse could not get up! I pulled his saddle off and we put saddle pads under his hooves so he could get traction.

Since witnessing this issue with so many different horses, in many different circumstances, I simply will never tighten a girth before allowing the horse to walk first. This is a lesson I instill in each and every student of mine as well.


----------



## charlene1985 (Aug 4, 2009)

another question is does the horse seem to be fearful (the look in her eyes) or does it seem to be a defiance thing? If its a defiance thing i would have a crop with me and pop her on the butt as soon as she does it but if you cant tell...DONT DO THAT! You can cause more problems if it is done out of fear.


----------



## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

I also agree with Vidaloco. Learn to use the tie blocker if you must tie or ground tie if you don't. I ground tie when I'm tacking up at home but if I'm out on a trail ride, I take a tie blocker with me. My horses don't pull back but you never know what may cause them to do it that one time and end up with a wreck on your hands.


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

iridehorses said:


> I also agree with Vidaloco. Learn to use the tie blocker if you must tie or ground tie if you don't. .


I can't imagine owning a horse that I can't tie up??? My guy spends too much time tied to the side of the trailer or to the hitching rail at home to not tie well. 
If I had one that wouldn't tie I would use a rubber tube and tie him to some good solid object at the right height and walk away. if the horse wants to throw itself so be it.
A horse that won't tie is a menace and the blocker is just a cop out.


----------



## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

RiosDad said:


> I can't imagine owning a horse that I can't tie up??? My guy spends too much time tied to the side of the trailer or to the hitching rail at home to not tie well.
> If I had one that wouldn't tie I would use a rubber tube and tie him to some good solid object at the right height and walk away. if the horse wants to throw itself so be it.
> A horse that won't tie is a menace and the blocker is just a cop out.


I agree.

We go to shows, team penning, trail rides, etc. It is simply not safe or practical to ground tie a horse.

We have two boarders with horses that pull when tied. Odd thing is they only do it for the owner. The one mare I use for lessons, she does not pull for the student or me. The other mare has learned pulling gets her treats . . .


----------



## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

mls said:


> I agree.
> 
> We go to shows, team penning, trail rides, etc. It is simply not safe or practical to ground tie a horse..


I am not sure anyone is suggesting using ground tying as a permanent solution, just for saddling...  

I use ground tying for alot of things, as it really challenges a horse TO be patient...tying him up, he simply can't run away...but ground tying him, that option is there, but he has to use his head...My Appy, when I got him was extremely impatient while tied up when I got him and I taught him how to ground tie immediately...he is now very patient in either instance, so ground tying has it's perks and pay offs.


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

mom2pride said:


> I am not sure anyone is suggesting using ground tying as a permanent solution, just for saddling...
> 
> I use ground tying for alot of things, as it really challenges a horse TO be patient...tying him up, he simply can't run away...but ground tying him, that option is there, but he has to use his head...My Appy, when I got him was extremely impatient while tied up when I got him and I taught him how to ground tie immediately...he is now very patient in either instance, so ground tying has it's perks and pay offs.


 
I ground tie all the time. At the end of each and every ride I ride to rear of my truck, ground tie him and remove his saddle and bridle and check his feet for stones. I ground tie in the bush to remove limbs blocking the trail. I also am quick to slap a set of hobbles on him.
If anything teaches patience it is hobbles. I hobble the front at times, hobble the back at other times and hobble all 4 most of the time


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

RiosDad said:


> If I had one that wouldn't tie I would use a rubber tube and tie him to some good solid object at the right height and walk away. if the horse wants to throw itself so be it.


Why do you need to use rubber tube?


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

kitten_Val said:


> Why do you need to use rubber tube?


The rubber tube gives a wee bit of give to the rope. I have tied hard and solid alot of times but if I have a real fighter I would prefer the slight bit of give using and inner tube.
To me the best, bar none is a high line. It is a heavy rope strung between 2 trees about 8 or 9 feet off the ground. In the center between the two trees you have a loop to give you a place to tie the line from the horse to the high line.
This high line is stretched as tight as you can make it and tied off around each tie securely.
I then use a neck rope, not just a halter and lead shank and tie the horse to the loop in the center of the high line.
The horse can not break the high line because it has give. The trees sway with the pull, the horse can't run into anything by pulling back and then leaping forward. If it throws itself it can't hit anything except the ground, not to thrash against and it absolutely can not break free.
I have left horses high lined for days on end without ever seeing one get in trouble.
All my guys are just tied hard and fast to something about wither height of eye height with a neck rope with a halter with the neck rope passing through it to keep the head aligned with the pull and just let them work it out.
A confirmed fighter might fight too hard so I prefer the high line or the rubber tube for that little bit of give.
I will not pull against a halter and lead. Neck lines all the way.
Sunday morning I can see 100 plus horses tied all in one parking lot and every single one of them uses a neck line, every one


----------



## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

I started off using a tire innertube before I discovered the Blocker ties for TEACHING a horse to stand tied. Yes a $5-10 inner tube is cheaper, but I feel the Blocker is safer for teaching a young horse for the FIRST TIME

ETA- To Riosdad: A cop out? are you kidding? which is more of a cop out, tying a young inexperienced horse hard to a solid immovable object with the only relief a piece of rubber? or using the blocker and actually teaching your horse to not be afraid and to stand quietly while tied. I don't see your logic in saying the blocker, or any similar training method is wrong.


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

Vidaloco said:


> I started off using a tire innertube before I discovered the Blocker ties for TEACHING a horse to stand tied. Yes a $5-10 inner tube is cheaper, but I feel the Blocker is safer for teaching a young horse for the FIRST TIME
> 
> ETA- To Riosdad: A cop out? are you kidding? which is more of a cop out, tying a young inexperienced horse hard to a solid immovable object with the only relief a piece of rubber? or using the blocker and actually teaching your horse to not be afraid and to stand quietly while tied. I don't see your logic in saying the blocker, or any similar training method is wrong.


To use a blocker you always have to be present. YOu don;t walk away from the horse, you don't tie it to a trailer and crawl in the back of the truck. YOu don't leave the horse. You always have to be on guard. The horse learns by pulling he can back away from the tie position. He can gain space. How are you going to leave a blocker on the horse and leave him tied for the night while you sleep??
I have been training horses for over 50 years and I start half wild 4 year olds and never have I relied on anything but old fashion methods.
You want to train a horse to tie?? YOu tie him to something he can not move or break. I have broken half wild horses with a snubbing post in the middle of a round pen, this is old 1300 or so pound horses and they are broke that day, that hour to respect the post.
I have a horse now into 10 months of training and he gets tied all the time in strange places. Monday was a busy shopping maul. Friday it was beside a busy highway again in town., NO my guys tie hard and fast and I walk away and they can do as they please but when I return they will be there.
To teach a horse that he can gain ground by pulling only is fooling yourself into thinking that he is trained to tie anywhere without you being present.
Start right from the beginning and it is over with quickly. I remember my dad 50 years ago tying colts for the first time. He had a heavy halter, a big workhorse standing stall and he basically dragged a baby in there, tied him solid and handed me a twitch and said if he pulls back hit him on the rump. Those babies broke to tie that day, that hour and they never caused a problem about a simple tie.


----------



## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

I leave my mare tied in\on the trailer, or just to a blocker all the time. All you have to do is run the lead rope around the back and it locks it to keep it from being pulled through. You can either let the rope run through or lock it for a solid tie. 
I had mine broke to stand tied in less than an hour when they were less than 1 year old with the blocker. All of my horses stand patiently tied with semi trucks camper and motorcycles wizzing by at 60 mph within just a few yards of them. I used the blocker on every one of them. 
I think whatever method works is the best for you and yours. The blocker works for me, so I'm standing by my statements.


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

Vidaloco said:


> I leave my mare tied in\on the trailer, or just to a blocker all the time. All you have to do is run the lead rope around the back and it locks it to keep it from being pulled through. You can either let the rope run through or lock it for a solid tie.
> I had mine broke to stand tied in less than an hour when they were less than 1 year old with the blocker. All of my horses stand patiently tied with semi trucks camper and motorcycles wizzing by at 60 mph within just a few yards of them. I used the blocker on every one of them.
> I think whatever method works is the best for you and yours. The blocker works for me, so I'm standing by my statements.


If the horses are good tiers then why bother with a blocker after the first training session. You use one all the time??? Why?? 
As for standing on the trailer? I unload the minute I get anywhere before I take care of anything for myself.
Before the blocker and I have never seen one horses were learning to tie all the time?? How is this possible if we didnt' have the blocker???

How did the cowboys, the pioneers do it,.. How about all the amish we have in our area?? Do you think they know about the blocker??? You see their horses tied at the markets, at church, at home depo, all over and they are tied solid, every one of them.


----------



## Qtswede (Apr 16, 2009)

I've done something similar to Rio, with a very very heavy duty bungee (2" diam.) and block them in as well. They don't like the stretch of the rubber, and they quit pretty quickly. Now, before I had my bungee (and tying issues are not common for me to run into) there was a horse I worked with that sat down just like yours, during, or after saddling. Scared the crap out of his then noob owner. She freaked out, and didn't push him. I helped her the next time - I watched her saddle him while I stood to the side with my dressage whip. As soon as he started in I gave him a good whack on the ***. He jumped right back up, looked at me like 'what the hell???' and so far, he's never tried it again. 
Try a few things. Something is bound to work.


----------



## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

mom2pride said:


> I am not sure anyone is suggesting using ground tying as a permanent solution, just for saddling...


However, you do need to saddle when you get to these events . . .


----------



## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

RiosDad said:


> If the horses are good tiers then why bother with a blocker after the first training session. You use one all the time??? Why??
> As for standing on the trailer? I unload the minute I get anywhere before I take care of anything for myself.
> Before the blocker and I have never seen one horses were learning to tie all the time?? How is this possible if we didnt' have the blocker???
> 
> How did the cowboys, the pioneers do it,.. How about all the amish we have in our area?? Do you think they know about the blocker??? You see their horses tied at the markets, at church, at home depo, all over and they are tied solid, every one of them.


No, I don't use them all the time. I use a hitching rail most of the time. My blockers are screwed into trees, so if its shady under the tree I use the blocker. If its shady at the rail, I use the rail. When its 90-100 degrees outside you follow the shade :lol:
So using your logic we should still be crossing the country in covered wagons instead of cars and aircraft. No improvements can be made to anything? A better mousetrap can't be built? I see the blockers as an improvement to the old way. Not saying the old way is wrong, they are just safer I believe more effective.


----------



## Scoutrider (Jun 4, 2009)

Actually, I do leave my horses alone with the Blocker ring. They don't pull it through, and I feel a lot more confident that (Heaven forbid) if they do spook, they won't be injured, my equipment will be intact, and my trailer/fence will be upright when I come back. As far as _in_ the trailer I like the idea that if (again, Heaven forbid) my horse went down in the trailer, he wouldn't be hanging by the rope, it would come with him and he would at least be safer.

It isn't about copping out, it's about teaching a problem/green horse, and peace or mind for a horse that knows the drill. My horses all tie solid, the Blocker is just my insurance policy.

As vidaloco said, though, it's all about what works for you. I know horses who regularly broke bungees and inner tubes, and after starting with the blocker are now gems to tie.


----------



## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

RiosDad said:


> If the horses are good tiers then why bother with a blocker after the first training session. You use one all the time??? Why??
> As for standing on the trailer? I unload the minute I get anywhere before I take care of anything for myself.
> Before the blocker and I have never seen one horses were learning to tie all the time?? How is this possible if we didnt' have the blocker???
> .


As to why bother, the answer is a simple, why not? You never know when a tied horse is going to get stung, or a plastic bag comes flying past their face or any other sudden, unexpected thing happens. If it has never happen to you, then wonderful. It's happen to me and I'm glad I had the blocker being used on a horse that was always considered 100% bombproof.

I ground tie my horse when I saddle and unsaddle but only at home where I can reasonably control my environment and if something happened, we are in an enclosed area. At a show or a large trail ride I can't control the environment so I take precautions.

What did we do before the Blocker? What did we do before cell phones, automatic transmissions, computers, etc? That was then, this is now - technology comes and we learn. The Blocker is a tool. It's great for what it does and it's purpose. Does every horse need it? No. Does it help with a confirmed puller? Yes. Use it as the training or safety device tool it is.


----------



## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

I guess I didn't really make myself clear. With my arab, I tie him, but ONLY while I am there and within sight, and I don't tack him up tied. AT home, we only have three tie spots and four horses, he is always ground tied at home. At shows, he is tied, but only while I can see him. We made yards for the the float to prevent having to tie him. Why do we avoid it so much?

He was tied in a rope halter to baling twine around a telegraph pole. He spooked at something and ran sideways, the twine didn't break, and he wrapped himself around the pole. The halter cut into his head, he couldn't breath, collapsed to his knees. I wasn't there, but dad had to cut the halter with a knife to get it off, and he had scars for a long time. It was a terrifying experience for him, and I don't see long term tying as important enough to traumatize me horse. He ground ties and we have yards; There is no point putting him through fear to make him a better tyer.


----------



## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

OMG :shock: Lucky he's still around. I see no reason to tie him if you don't have to. 
I don't like walking off and leaving them unattended for long periods of time anyway. I'm a nervous horse mom :lol:


----------



## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Me too, now! I'm happy to leave other horses tied, but not for long. Any horse that has a tendency to pull back, no way. That's why we made yards. You just can't always trust twine, or anything you tie to.


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

Vidaloco said:


> OMG :shock: Lucky he's still around. I see no reason to tie him if you don't have to.
> I don't like walking off and leaving them unattended for long periods of time anyway. I'm a nervous horse mom :lol:


I will go on camping trips or 3 day endurance rides and my horses are tied the entire time except when under saddle. We use high line and rings that run along the high line , a clothes line so to speak and the horses each has a run of a area and they are quit content to spend the nights and parts of the day tied like this. I sleep soundly at night knowing my guy is on a high line.
Pens, hot wire get mowed down in a storm when horses stampede but every horse on a high line is still there after the others have cleaned out the camp. I have never known a horse to get hurt tied on a high line at any rides. As for twin we only use it to bale hay. It has no place on tying a horse. I have left my guy tied to the side of a trailer while at the beach and again he is fine. 
The amish set up a roadside store near me and they arrive at about 7 in the morning, they tie the horses to the back of a wagon and at 7 at night they hitch them up and go home.. Those guys stand 12 hours in the same spot and seem to be ok.
I am not nervous about properly tying a horse and then leaving to go to the beach or run someplace. I just ask the people camping around me to keep an eye on the guys.
What difference does it make it a solidly tied horse tests with a pull? I am working a new guy and went to give him his first bath, He pulled back, jumped forward and stood for the bath. Every time I tie him I tie as if he will test it. Again if they test a solid tie and then just stand so what if they are tied properly??
If my guy would gain say 5 feet of rope from the blocker what is that showing him.
Bee stings, flying paper, firecrackers and anything else you can name will not harm him if he attempts a pull and gives up. Sure horses are spooked and will try but after a half hearted attempt they all stand quietly, the spook is gone by then.
I am NOT nervous around horses, tied horses and anything else.
Tying is nothing compared to some of the terrain I get my boy into and he has to listen exactly or we both can be killed. One side jump at the wrong time and both of us could easily die.
Again 50 plus years of experience here.


----------



## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Like I said above, most horses I will trust to stand tied. My current main riding horse I have no problems with leaving tied, as I know what he will do in an emergency situation. My little arab? If he spooks and feels he is stuck he will struggle until either something breaks, or he is so exhausted he can't struggle anymore. That's not a situation I would like my horse to be in. I know it is a rare case, but it happened. 

When I camp, my horses are yarded. Never had a problem with it, even through storms etc.

Twine is commonly accepted throughout OZ and promoted through Pony Club as a safe material to tie horses to, tying to a solid object is not encouraged. Twine is meant to break under large amounts of pressure, and mostly does, but asproved with my guy cannot be trusted 100%.

I have never used a high line, but it sounds like an altogether different situation than normal tying.

I have seen horses tied to 'supposedly' solid objects who are 'supposedly' good tyers, who freak out and end up running, dragging the 'solid' object behind and under their feet. There are a lot fo things that can go wrong with tying... All my horses learn to ground tie even if I don't always use it.


----------



## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

The problem with a solid post is the immense damage you are potentially doing to their necks. Yeah, it works great, and the cost is high if the horse blows a gasket. Maybe that's fine for people who don't mind broken necks and cut up horses, but I find it pretty senseless to promote that as the most sensible tying method. Vidaloco has presented a method that works just as well, with little to no risk of injury. Which makes a lot more sense considering the OP has ALREADY stated she had to cut her mare loose once from the solid post method.

That's fine if it works for you, and it's fine if it worked "back in the day", but there ARE safer and more sensible methods available now. I agree they may not work with a range raised Mustang, but that's not what we're dealing with here. Adapt the method to suit the horse, don't assume the same method is good for every horse.


----------



## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

^^ Definately agree.


----------



## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

If you rule out the possibility of an injury, try tying her to a hitching post with a very long rope so she's got room when she tries to lie down. as soon as she lies down, get a crop and smack her butt repeatedly until she gets up. My friend had a similar problem and after one time of me 'correcting' her, the mare hasnt done it once.


----------



## morganshow11 (Dec 19, 2008)

Just make sure you dont tie her up anymore, that could break her neck when she is tied up and trys to lay down


----------



## Horse Poor (Aug 20, 2008)

I had a horse come through here that absolutely would not stand tied in a place unless he wanted to stand tied. He stood for grooming, bathing, saddling, ect. EXCEPT when he didn't want to be tied where you tied him. Then he would dog sit and pull until he got loose, and when he couldn't get loose he'd slam himself to the ground and flop over in disgust. I tried everything (except the blocker tie, that device wasn't around then.) To make a long story short, I decided that if he wanted to throw a fit and flop his butt on the ground, then he'd stay there till I let him up...so I untied the rope from the post and tied him down with it leaving him there on the ground, where he had laid himself down, for 2 hours. That was the only thing that worked for this horse. Never had a problem after that.


----------



## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

Horse Poor said:


> I had a horse come through here that absolutely would not stand tied in a place unless he wanted to stand tied. He stood for grooming, bathing, saddling, ect. EXCEPT when he didn't want to be tied where you tied him. Then he would dog sit and pull until he got loose, and when he couldn't get loose he'd slam himself to the ground and flop over in disgust. I tried everything (except the blocker tie, that device wasn't around then.) To make a long story short, I decided that if he wanted to throw a fit and flop his butt on the ground, then he'd stay there till I let him up...so I untied the rope from the post and tied him down with it leaving him there on the ground, where he had laid himself down, for 2 hours. That was the only thing that worked for this horse. Never had a problem after that.



Thats pretty funny now. Probably wasn't at the time :lol:


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

It is NOT all about tying. It is about everything you do with your horse. From the responses to tying I get an impression of how other things are done elsewhere. To the guy who tied his horse down I get the impression that he puts up with no nonesense in everything else. To the ones that won't tie I get the impression that others things are done sloppily?? too.
If you avoid a fight whenever possible your horse learns from this that to act up gets him someplace. I don't want to tie, act up, they ground tie me or hold me. If I don't want to pass that scary object you will go way wide around it if possible or pick another route? I don't want to slid down that steep slippery slope. Find a way around it so the horse doesn't have to slid down. Cross a scary ditch? Pick another way around.
It goes on and on in how we treat our horses. I baby mine in the field, in the stall, feeding, brushing, treats but come work time he pays up by dong exactly what I demand, each and every single thing. There is no debate in how things are done, what he will do. Scary does not cut it. Jump or walk through a ditch, I deside, not you.

So back to tying. I feel if this simple thing that horse decides, other things will also be decided by the horse.
How many of you hobble??? It is just another form of tying/rooting the horse to a spot?
I really liked the post about tying the horse down. Good for you.


----------



## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

morganshow11 said:


> Just make sure you dont tie her up anymore, that could break her neck when she is tied up and trys to lay down


You can't just not tie your horse up. They need to know how.


----------



## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

morganshow11 said:


> Just make sure you dont tie her up anymore, that could break her neck when she is tied up and trys to lay down


So a horse not tied with a lead rope dangling won't break it's neck - or leg?

I assisted in putting a horse down this past Sunday. The horse had gotten away from his handler (gee ground tied at an event).

Found the horse a mile away with a snapped foreleg. We had to put him down on the side of a road. It was an awful way to end what should of been a very fun day.

Even the best trained horse may startle for what ever reason and pull while tied.


----------



## Horse Poor (Aug 20, 2008)

LOL! I'm not a guy, I'm a gal. Personally, I insist on certain things and everything else is negotiable. This horse was a challenge because he was unpredictable in when he decided to get loose. He was one of those who would fly back till he hit the end of the rope and pull with all he had. He was NOT a horse you tie with a neck rope or a girth rope through the halter ring. He would have broken his neck or peeled the skin back from his withers before he tested the line. Knowing the horse is key and should determine what you do.

IMHO, Socket is a horse who knows how to tie...so teaching her how to tie isn't the problem. She's not pulling out of fear, pain or any misunderstanding of what is being asked of her. She's pulling because she wants to. Chance are the first time she did it, she got a lot of positive attention from a concerned owner who was shocked and taken aback by the behavior. Can't say for sure as I wasn't there...but that'd be my guess.


----------



## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

I don't much like the taste of liver and I venture to say that if I was tied to a pole,post tree,inner tube,cross tie,or any other contraption and forced to eat it,then I would be in a real bad mood.
No amount of shoving it down my throat would fix my hate of the taste to it.

A lot of training is just like that.

People just think that they can force it down the throat of the horse and sooner or later the horse will put up with it or even grow to like it.

Just isn't so.
Force is when people run out of ideas.


----------



## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

Horse Poor said:


> Personally, I insist on certain things and everything else is negotiable.


nothing should be negotiable. If you 'negotiate' things with your horse, you're not in full command. The lead horse never asks politely "would you stop eating your food and kindly let me have some?" they demand it. If they want the food they make the other horse move. Even if the horse doesnt want to. and they usually dont want to. Tying is something that every horse should learn how to do. If a horse doesnt tie nicely, then you train them to, just as you would with anything else they have issues with. Dont think of them like people, you have to think of them like horses. Horses dont ever see another as an equal, only dominant or submisant and if you let the horse get away with what he wants, then he is in charge of you and will take advantage of you in other situations.


----------



## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> It is NOT all about tying. It is about everything you do with your horse. From the responses to tying I get an impression of how other things are done elsewhere. To the guy who tied his horse down I get the impression that he puts up with no nonesense in everything else. To the ones that won't tie I get the impression that others things are done sloppily?? too.
> If you avoid a fight whenever possible your horse learns from this that to act up gets him someplace. I don't want to tie, act up, they ground tie me or hold me. If I don't want to pass that scary object you will go way wide around it if possible or pick another route? I don't want to slid down that steep slippery slope. Find a way around it so the horse doesn't have to slid down. Cross a scary ditch? Pick another way around.
> It goes on and on in how we treat our horses. I baby mine in the field, in the stall, feeding, brushing, treats but come work time he pays up by dong exactly what I demand, each and every single thing. There is no debate in how things are done, what he will do. Scary does not cut it. Jump or walk through a ditch, I deside, not you.
> 
> ...


Do you see me choosing not to tie my arab who had a bad experience as reflecting that I do other things sloppily? Just curious.

I just want to say, I see ground tying as just as/if not more important than being able to tie normally. What if you need to do something with your horse out on a plain where there is nowhere to tie? Get off and check on injured stock in a creek leaving your horse standing ground tied? I ride my arab yesterday for the first time in a while. It re-enforced how much I value having a horse with such solid ground tying. After we got back, I took his saddle a bridle off and left him there halterless while I put away his tack, made up feeds, put his rug on... It is a skill I want ALL my horses to have.

*Just to add on our ride yesterday the same arab I don't tie was asked to go over/through a few muddy puddles which he REALLY hates and did so without argument.

I see myself as part of the 'take no nonsense' camp of horse ownership. I just don't see tying a horse with a terrible fear and known ability to injure himself while tied as 'taking no nonsense', when it isn't something I need to have a good working relationship with that horse. 

The other horse who was ridden yesterday? Is a stubborn lttle so-and-so and often tries to get out of being tied, but never does.


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

Ground tying is very important and every time I ride my horse is ground tied. I get off at the end of the lane way, loosen the girth, put my gloves and sun glasses back in the saddle bag, check all 4 feet for stones and then walk in. He is ground tied while this is going on.
I then lead him to the back of the truck, slip a neck rope around his neck and slip the bridle. Again he is ground tied by the neck rope. I strip the saddle, take my spurs off and half chaps while he stands patiently ground tied.
I then lead him to the barn.
On trail to clear trail I ground tie. If a new horse is at the barn yard I ride through the lady always asks me to have a look. I ground tie.
The longest ground tie on my old guy was about 1 hour 20 minutes while I was in the barn and he waited for me. I was out of site for this whole time and he never moved.
Hobble. I hobble most of the time instead of tying for grooming just for hte practice. He hobbles on the front, he hobbles on the back and he hobble on all 4 tie together. He tethers from the left hind for grazing.
He ties solid to the trail, to the hitching rail and cross ties solid.
Yes I would say he does it all.

I don't know your horse so if you say he can't be tied I guess he can't be tied. I have just never had a horse that couldn't be tied nor any of the horses I shod over the 23 year period. I did know a horse that couldn't be cross tied but tied fine by a single rope to a post.
That's the limit of my experience with non tying horses.

We often went for breakfast with the horses. My old girl ground tied and we tied one to each side of her saddle and we had a breakfast. Did this alot. A 12 mile ride in and a 12 mile ride home. Ice cream was Tuesday and Thursday. 6 miles in, 6 miles out.


----------



## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

The issue is, this horse throws a fit when the SADDLE is done up. I'd call you a pretty irresponsible horse owner if you didn't first look for a reason why before DEMANDING the horse "obey you". Horses aren't machines, they have minds of their own, and it's up to us as owners to pay attention to what they're telling us. If a horse is being obnoxious, I'm the first to get demanding. But not before I rule out a reason why.

I'd rather my horse do as I ask because they don't mind it, not because I'm forcing them to. I can tie my Arab mare anywhere, to anything. I can leave her behind a strand of binder twine and she'll stay. When I ride, I don't even bother with a halter half the time, I just lead her in by her mane, and she stands quietly in the tack up area without any restraint whatsoever. She gets to free graze on the front yard with no barriers because she'll never roam, and she always walks over when she sees me. She does these things because I make them enjoyable for her. She enjoys my company enough to run from the herd when she sees me.

I never had to use force or demands to accomplish any of these things. I never had to tie her down to a post and let her "fight it out".

"Work" doesn't have to mean force, and in my opinion, horses come around a lot nicer when you work WITH them, not against them as an overlord. Find the way that works for them. I don't see anything "sloppy" in respecting a horse as a LIVING creature and understanding they have idiocracies just like we do. It gets sloppy when the method doesn't WORK and creates a spoiled animal. Everyone has a different way, and just because it's different then yours doesn't make it ANY less effective.


----------



## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> I don't know your horse so if you say he can't be tied I guess he can't be tied. I have just never had a horse that couldn't be tied nor any of the horses I shod over the 23 year period. I did know a horse that couldn't be cross tied but tied fine by a single rope to a post.
> That's the limit of my experience with non tying horses.


It's not that he can't be tied. I mentioned that I do tie him on occasion, but only while I am in sight... I wouldn't be comfortable leaving him tied and walking away.


----------



## Horse Poor (Aug 20, 2008)

LoveTheSaddlebreds said:


> nothing should be negotiable. If you 'negotiate' things with your horse, you're not in full command. The lead horse never asks politely "would you stop eating your food and kindly let me have some?" they demand it. If they want the food they make the other horse move. Even if the horse doesnt want to. and they usually dont want to. Tying is something that every horse should learn how to do. If a horse doesnt tie nicely, then you train them to, just as you would with anything else they have issues with. Dont think of them like people, you have to think of them like horses. Horses dont ever see another as an equal, only dominant or submisant and if you let the horse get away with what he wants, then he is in charge of you and will take advantage of you in other situations.


But the goal isn't to be "in full command". It's to be a leader worth following. Training is not the same as dominating. None of the horses discussed here are challenging their owners to be "the boss". What they are doing is working out what they can/cannot do when faced with a situation they don't like. I don't think horses have a concept of "win or lose". People do. You want to be the "boss hoss", so to speak, but you don't want the horse to resent it. Horses who resent "the boss" are unhappy, resentful, frustrated, sour, anticipate misery/pain, skittish and will at every opportunity try to escape and avoid instead of willingly comply. If you want a horse you won't enjoy working with, be the Commandant.


----------



## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Agreed 110% with Horse Poor.


----------

