# Color help?



## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Main pinto gene being expressed is tobiano, body color is not as easy to identify as he could be a fading black or a smoky black (which can make a horse fade worse) as my main guesses on coat color from just these pictures


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

Hmm in winter he gets a much lighter brown and when he sheds out he is DARK...then sun fades some...not sure if that helps any!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Is his muzzle black or cinnamon colored in winter?


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

Found some more pics! His muzzle is pretty black in winter. His face pretty much always stays very dark colored.

winter Jax:

(didn't realize how blurry this was sorry)




































shedding out









(he wasn't impressed with all the blue)









this is like all shed out









june/julyish









sept 2015









oct 2015


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Definitely a black based body, I am not sure if TWH's carry dun which means he could be grullo if he has a distinct dorsal running down his spine and into the tail. But I am leaning towards smoky black which means he fades really badly (more severe fading than typical fading blacks) due to having a cream gene on a black body. So, without pulling hairs and testing I would say he is either a smoky black tobiano pinto or a grulla pinto, or just call him a black tobiano who fades badly LOL
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

Haha! Thank you! My friend was wondering if he was grulla too!! His stripe is pretty distinct through the brown but doesn't go through the white? Hes out 24/7 too so being faded badly is a big possibility too lol!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Yep, black base. Maybe smoky black. I don't think grullo, but I could be wrong.


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

Haha I have the faded horse on the block then  oh well, hes happy and healthy I'm not going to lock him up to keep him from fading.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

evilamc said:


> Haha! Thank you! My friend was wondering if he was grulla too!! His stripe is pretty distinct through the brown but doesn't go through the white? Hes out 24/7 too so being faded badly is a big possibility too lol!


Dorsal and countershading down the spine never shows through white markings. Think of the white markings as a white layer sitting on top of everything else, the dorsal and countershading on the back bone only shows on the coat color which is covered by white patches. The white markings work as a blob of snow dropped on the horse, everything underneath the white is hidden ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

Is he registered, do you know what color his parents are? Can you get a rear pic? Personally I'm seeing grullo in these pics.


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## Regula (Jan 23, 2012)

I see grullo as well. Cute!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

No he's not registered and I don't know his parents  I bought him from a dealer in VA last year.

I'll got a good pic of his rear today ? I kinda had one but he was wet from being out in the rain so that's all you could really see...dirty wet horse...lol


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

I tried looking up a registration document for registering tennesse walkers to see what they had listed as color options for purebreds but no such luck. However, according to Wikipedia (slight hesitation as anyone can write and edit information there) Tennesse Walkers can carry dun. But since you have no papers and bought him from a horse dealer, he may or may not be pure Tennesse Walker as there is no way to prove either way and any horse without papers can become a breed that they resemble. 

If you really want to know what his color is, pull some hairs and test for cream and dun (will cost about $50 total for both tests using either UC Davis or Animal Genetics labs). He could carry one or both dilutes which is altering his otherwise black body. If he only carries cream, he would be a smoky black. If he only carries dun, he would be a grullo. If he carries both cream and dun, he would be a smoky grullo. ;-)


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

Ohh that could be fun to have done. Maybe after I get all my Christmas shopping done I'll splurge a little lol!


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

I don't know why its so hard to see in pictures, I feel like it sticks out so much in person. These pictures make it look like he doesn't even have a stripe down the brown lol, I swear its there though.


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

Lol I'm such a midget too, I had to stand inside my trailer while he was tied to it to get these pics


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## georgialove1 (Sep 24, 2013)

My girl ?????????


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## EponaLynn (Jul 16, 2013)

I'm no color expert but shouldn't a dorsal stripe show up on the white too? I say that because on a dunalino you can see the dorsal stripe on the light coat. Maybe paint color covers it though. I think what you're seeing might be counter shading which many horses have.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

EponaLynn said:


> I'm no color expert but shouldn't a dorsal stripe show up on the white too? I say that because on a dunalino you can see the dorsal stripe on the light coat. Maybe paint color covers it though. I think what you're seeing might be counter shading which many horses have.


The dorsal stripe shows up on dunalinos because that is the body color. Pinto spots cover/hide the body color which includes covering countershading and dorsal stripes. A white spot on a horse's back will never have countershading or a dorsal stripe, white spots only collect dirt which can show quite grimy on the spine


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

georgialove1 said:


> My girl ?????????


If you are wanting help identifying her color, you can start a new thread in the colors and genetics section of the forum and include several close ups pictures in full sun (when the sun is low in the sky, yellow light alters the appearance of horse colors). Include face shots and if you can, include pictures from different times of the year ;-)


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

It's hard to see a lot with him in the shadows, but I'm still seeing grullo from every picture posted.


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