# A Good Snaffle with leverage?



## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

snaffles dont have leverage. thats what makes em a snaffle. some of the things they call snaffles are just wrong. Not a fan of leverage bits with broken mouth pieces, Ala the tomb thumb. search "tomb thumb" on this websight and read up, youll see what I mean. as far as a GP western bit, I use one of these, with the second one being my top choice.
SS Curb Bit with Med Port - Horse.com
Western AT Low Port Loose Cheek Bit - Horse.com


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

This is going to be a first..I agree with Joe, Snaffle has no leverage, that's what makes it a snaffle.


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## LeahKathleen (Mar 5, 2009)

I think it's a common misconception that any bit with a broken mouth piece is a snaffle, but that's simply inaccurate. Snaffles do not have leverage.


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## Lopin N Paint (May 30, 2012)

Thanks for the correction.
And thanks for the suggestion so far...

I now understand true snaffles have no leverage.

Moving on now...

I really prefer something with a sweet iron or at least copper mouth piece.

Any other suggestions for something mild? Or is Joe4D's suggestion really the best out there?


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## LeahKathleen (Mar 5, 2009)

I guess what we're confused about is what you're asking for -- are you asking for a bit with leverage, regardless of the mouth piece, or are you specifically wanting a leverage bit with a broken mouth piece?


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Western AT Low Port Loose Cheek Bit - Horse.com 

I use this one that Joe suggested. It's a very mild curb.


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## Lopin N Paint (May 30, 2012)

LeahKathleen said:


> I guess what we're confused about is what you're asking for -- are you asking for a bit with leverage, regardless of the mouth piece, or are you specifically wanting a leverage bit with a broken mouth piece?


I'm looking for a mild transition bit for a horse that works well in the Dee Ring but I'm wanting some leverage. Looking to get the same results I get from my Dee Ring but with asking less. 

Horse is going on 11 years old. Was a well school 2 year old, aimed at Western Pleasure until about 6 but had limited amateur work after he was sold as a 2 year old, got passed around a lot, and ended up to me. I started riding him about 3 years ago, This past year I bought him and I've been putting a lot of miles on him this past year and he tuned up pretty nice.

I'm looking for something so come warm weather after we ride in the Dee Ring a while I'll have something else to 'mix in' to our training program. 

I hope that makes sense.


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

All broken mouth shanked bits are not tom thumbs either.


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## 2BigReds (Oct 7, 2011)

When I was picking out transition bits, the second one that Joe posted was one of my top picks. However, like you, I prefer a bit with copper and/or sweet iron, so I chose this instead:

Western SS Hinged Ported Roller Bit - Horse.com

Awhile ago one of the trainers at our barn happened to see it on my horse and mention that she used the same one to show all of her training horses in since it's a very easy transition from snaffle to curb. It's a nice, forgiving bit with completely independent sides for occasional two-handed reining. My horse LOVES this bit. It's good looking, to boot!


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

2BigReds said:


> When I was picking out transition bits, the second one that Joe posted was one of my top picks. However, like you, I prefer a bit with copper and/or sweet iron, so I chose this instead:
> 
> Western SS Hinged Ported Roller Bit - Horse.com
> 
> Awhile ago one of the trainers at our barn happened to see it on my horse and mention that she used the same one to show all of her training horses in since it's a very easy transition from snaffle to curb. It's a nice, forgiving bit with completely independent sides for occasional two-handed reining. My horse LOVES this bit. It's good looking, to boot!


I have this bit and love it.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

As far as bits to transition up to from a snaffle, I generally go with something like one of these.




 





 



And, I haven't had the opportunity to try one of these, but I really like the looks of them and plan to try one soon.


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## Lopin N Paint (May 30, 2012)

Thanks everyone. I might go ahead and purchase Joe4D's suggestion and smrobs other suggestion...

Smrobs... do you consider that last bit mild? Even in intermediate/amature hands? I get help from a trainer but do most of the riding myself. 

I'm guessing everyone feels a solid mouth piece is more mild for a broke horse (assuming the rider has a good seat and soft educated hands).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

As for that last one, it's no less mild than the others I posted...providing that it is fitted correctly and has a curb strap of the proper length. I'm sure that if the curb strap was left long and allowed the bit to pivot completely around in the mouth, it would be a bit more uncomfortable than a bit with a smooth(non-square) port, but otherwise, the short shanks and diameter of the bit are about the same as any other.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

2BigReds said:


> When I was picking out transition bits, the second one that Joe posted was one of my top picks. However, like you, I prefer a bit with copper and/or sweet iron, so I chose this instead:
> 
> Western SS Hinged Ported Roller Bit - Horse.com
> 
> Awhile ago one of the trainers at our barn happened to see it on my horse and mention that she used the same one to show all of her training horses in since it's a very easy transition from snaffle to curb. It's a nice, forgiving bit with completely independent sides for occasional two-handed reining. My horse LOVES this bit. It's good looking, to boot!


I second the bit shown...it's an AWESOME bit and works well from transitioning from a snaffle to a ported bit. I stay away from shanked bit with a jointed mouth. Shanks and jointed mouths simply don't go together.


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## Lopin N Paint (May 30, 2012)

GotaDunQH said:


> I second the bit shown...it's an AWESOME bit and works well from transitioning from a snaffle to a ported bit. I stay away from shanked bit with a jointed mouth. Shanks and jointed mouths simply don't go together.


I think I'm going to go with this one. It has good reviews that I could find and I like the copper roller.

Its good to know to stay away from broken mouthpieces. That's what a lot of people around here use. (Not tom thumbs or cheapo ones though).

Thanks everyone.

I might just purchase one or two of the other suggestions though and see what the horse likes best.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Bought this one at the local tack store yesterday...paid $5 extra, but keeping local tack stores in business is a good thing. Rode Mia with it yesterday. It was her first time in a leveraged bit, and my first time using one. We kept things low-key - just walking and trotting in an area she knows well. Oh, and we did about 15 minutes of ground work flexing on both sides and vertically first.

Based on 1 ride, things are looking good. It is very similar to some of the bits above.



















For the record, I adjusted the bit & bridle after the second picture. And Mia does have an eye on that side of her face....:wink: 

I think having independent action by both shanks helped her figure it out quickly after a year in snaffles. I saw no signs of worry or resentment from her. Being my first time using a leveraged bit, I was amazed at how the slightest touch would send a signal. I'm looking forward to riding with it & her more today. She stayed calm & relaxed the whole time...but each day is a new day with Mia.


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## Lopin N Paint (May 30, 2012)

I actually found this bit:

257318- Partrade SS BrushedLow Port Hinged Futurity Bit

Its a little more expensive (doesn't bother me though... I was ready to buy the $65 bit lol) but it has a sweet iron mouth piece. And I'm already ordering stuff through them... 

I looks pretty much the same. Same shank length and such...


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## 2BigReds (Oct 7, 2011)

Lopin N Paint said:


> I actually found this bit:
> 
> 257318- Partrade SS BrushedLow Port Hinged Futurity Bit
> 
> ...


It's actually the same one! lol the SS is confusing on Horse.com since they don't mention the sweet iron, but mine started oxidizing on the mouthpiece and if you look reeeeeeeally closely in person, you can kinda tell where the sweet iron ends and the stainless begins. 

I will say, though, it majorly threw me off guard! I kept staring at it thinking WHY IS STAINLESS STEEL RUSTING THIS BIT IS A LIE!!! until my trainer knocked some sense into me! :lol:


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

I love this bit as a transition bit! It's really light. and I just like it's feel.










And on this bit, the snaffle joint rotates, so there is no nut-cracker action. But, it is a heaveir bit then the one above. My mare did not like it at all.


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## Lopin N Paint (May 30, 2012)

2BigReds said:


> It's actually the same one! lol the SS is confusing on Horse.com since they don't mention the sweet iron, but mine started oxidizing on the mouthpiece and if you look reeeeeeeally closely in person, you can kinda tell where the sweet iron ends and the stainless begins.
> 
> I will say, though, it majorly threw me off guard! I kept staring at it thinking WHY IS STAINLESS STEEL RUSTING THIS BIT IS A LIE!!! until my trainer knocked some sense into me! :lol:


Oh ok, thanks! 

I thought they looked the same... 

I like rusting, haha.


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## LouieThePalomino (Dec 15, 2012)

You should try the Tom Thumb, we use the grazing version where I ride. 
You should read this:
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-tack-equipment/tom-thumb-bits-25004/


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

LouieThePalomino said:


> You should try the Tom Thumb, we use the grazing version where I ride.
> You should read this:
> http://www.horseforum.com/horse-tack-equipment/tom-thumb-bits-25004/


No. Just no. There are so many nicer bits out there.


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## Lopin N Paint (May 30, 2012)

Still sticking with my choice and seeing how he likes that bit...


However, just for conversation, most trainers use this bit, or one like it, in my area. This is why a bit like this is what I originally wanted. However I'm going to take everyone's advice and try a solid mouth piece and see how we like it.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

LouieThePalomino said:


> You should try the Tom Thumb, we use the grazing version where I ride.
> You should read this:
> http://www.horseforum.com/horse-tack-equipment/tom-thumb-bits-25004/


Tom Thumbs are the WORST bit ever designed. I would never put on in my horse's mouth. Do some research to see how bad they really are.


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

I was under the impression that tom thumbs are strait, stationary shanked and a curved shank is not a tom thumb.???


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

What LNP posted just above is actually called an "Argentine Snaffle" which is still a misnomer because it isn't a snaffle at all, but that's beside the point LOL.

Because the shanks are angled on that one, it is better than the TT, but I still am just not a fan of any jointed mouth bit with shanks unless there is some sort of roller or something to stop the nutcracker thing from happening.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Here's something I think can be helpful...let the other folks with more experience say if I'm wrong. 

Get a friend to hold their hand out flat, with the bit resting on it as if it is the horse's tongue. Try to keep it at the same angle that your horse's head normally is at. They can also lightly hold where the bridle attaches. Attach the reins, and then pull at the angle they would be at while riding. Pull one, and pull both. Watch how the bit folds, moves, etc.

If you have two friends who don't mind your geekiness, let one position the bit in between their two flat hands, simulating the mouth. The second holds where the bridle attaches, and now you pull the reins.

Try walking along your horse, and seeing how the bit functions as you ask for turns and stops. You can't see inside their mouth, but you can gain some knowledge of how it affects them.

For today's ride, I switched from this one (as shown in post 17):










back to this one, only using the small ring below the big ring:










It functions more like a normal snaffle, with some poll pressure added. I had stopped using it after a ride because it is more of a squeezing action, and it didn't make sense to me to cue in two opposite directions at once. 

However, I took my mare out of the road using the bit from post 17. When she felt more excited, and didn't want to stop when asked, I pulled back enough to engage the curb strap - and she started flinging her head, nose above her ears and thrashing from side to side. I took her back to the arena and we did some work on "no head thrashing"...which seemed to work, but I decided curb straps and my mare would need a lot more arena time. She had NEVER flung her head upward, and I didn't want her to start. 

She behaved fine on the road today with the elevator bit. If the squeezing action confused her, she hid it well.

For now, I'll switch back and forth depending on what we're going to do. I'd like Mia to learn to ride with a curb bit, but I may have been pushing her too far beyond what I had prepared her to do.

I just wanted to share that because A) horses should always have a vote, and B) I think it is up to the rider to TEACH a new bit rather than just assume one will work.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

nvr2many said:


> I was under the impression that tom thumbs are strait, stationary shanked and a curved shank is not a tom thumb.???


A true Tom Thumb DOES have a straight (and short shank) and single jointed mouth, but a slight curve in the shank on the same single jointed mouth, makes it a "cousin" of a Tom Thumb and any relative of a Tom Thumb is not ideal.


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