# Mare squirting but has NO OVARIES!!!



## flowerhigh20 (Mar 16, 2009)

This is my situation. I have a 5 year old mare who was displaying abnormal heat cycles from the age of two. Her heat cycles were continuous, sometimes lasting 3-4 weeks long. We tried Regu-mate and marble implants and nothing worked. We had a number of ultrasounds done to her uterus and ovaries and to make a long story short opted to remove both ovaries. Once removed, the ovaries were found to be tumorous (smooth cell tumors.) After the surgery the behavior continued though much less often, now happening like a "normal" mare would experience a heat cycle. I do not understand how she could be coming in heat without the ovaries! At first, I thought it was a habit and figured we would wait it out. The surgery occurred May 2009. The behavior is still happening. Unfortunately I have not been able to ride her consistently due to her developing osteoarthritis in her hocks which causes her to be lame on occasion. She has had two trips to the vet for shockwave treatment as
well as injections. Now what we have is a mare who is periodically lame on her left hind, and still showing signs of heat. Throughout all of this she was also diagnosed with arterio-iliac thrombosis (blood clots in the iliac arteries traveling down the rear legs preventing circulation thus effecting movement.) She went through kelation therapy to remove the blood clots at the vet clinic for a week and was on isoxsuprine and aspirin afterwards to prevent the blood clots and inflammation. At the same time she was also diagnosed with a urinary tract infection in which she was on a series of topical antibiotic for. She is also on Joint Armor for a joint supplement. When she lunges, she moves fine for the most part. When she is being ridden is when she will carry her tail high and on some days actually squirt. However, the squirting and tail being high typically only happens when I ask her to lope. I have question whether or not the UTI has returned, however I have examined her urine the best that I can and it is not dark or strong smelling, so I do not think the infection has returned. I hope I have given enough information for you to understand what is really going on with my mare. I welcome any advice as I am about ready to hang up my spurs with this one, however the amount that has been invested in her really prevents me from giving up. Please help!!!


----------



## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

I have never heard of topical antibiotics for a UTI. your mare may have conformation that leads to urine pooling which could explain the squirting/irritation. I would contact the vet who performed the surgery and ask these questions, as that is going to be the person most familiar with her history and surgical findings. By smooth cell tumors, I assume you mean granulosa theca cell tumors? These are common, usually benign, and can be bilateral, as in the case of your mare. If there were some other kind of tumor, you cannot rule out that the uterus is affected, so without more info, it is hard to say what is going on. But you're right, it is not normal to cycle without ovaries!!! Please do update us though, I'm dying to know what is up with her!


----------



## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

It sounds like a bladder or urinary issue, NOT her 'mare' issues. She could have fluid buildup in her uterus though or infection there, causing her the bladder issues, however. 

I would get your vet's opinion, and possibly a second opinion, regarding her issues; she may need her uterus removed, if it's related to that.


----------



## cowgirlfitzy (Jan 27, 2009)

My friend actually has a spayed mare as well that still squirts. Not really sure why that it is, but she was spayed to her extreme moods while cycling, yet still has them. She also squirts and squints alot. 

I work at a small animal clinc and I tried doing some research on this but it is such an uncommon procedure. I did have a thought about it, maybe its similar to a urinary incontinence. For example in female spayed dogs, some will hard time holding their bladder.

If I were you tho, I would talk with your Veterinary about this. You never know what it could be/


----------



## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

cowgirlfitzy said:


> I work at a small animal clinc and I tried doing some research on this but it is such an uncommon procedure. I did have a thought about it, maybe its similar to a urinary incontinence. For example in female spayed dogs, some will hard time holding their bladder.


Mares aren't spayed like small animals are unless there are extreme conditions. Instead, the ovaries are removed and the uterus left intact, as mares are generally altered due to uncontrollable cycles or tumors- as in the case of the OP. Urinary incontinence in dogs is related to the removal of the uterus so it isn't really the same situation for mares. The uterus is intimately related to the bladder as it lays right on top of it, so if there was a problem it could affect urination.

to the OP- any updates for us? I'm very curious about this!


----------



## cowgirlfitzy (Jan 27, 2009)

tealamutt said:


> Mares aren't spayed like small animals are unless there are extreme conditions. Instead, the ovaries are removed and the uterus left intact, as mares are generally altered due to uncontrollable cycles or tumors- as in the case of the OP. Urinary incontinence in dogs is related to the removal of the uterus so it isn't really the same situation for mares. The uterus is intimately related to the bladder as it lays right on top of it, so if there was a problem it could affect urination.
> 
> to the OP- any updates for us? I'm very curious about this!


Sorry not trying to be rude or have a debate but I did take a little offense to your post :-(. I know they only do a ovarioectomy in mares and I also know the anatomy of a mares reproductive system. I also do believe there is more of an hormonal reason for the urinary incontinence in small animals. I'm no DVM but I am LVT ;-) 

The Vet and I went onto VIN which is a Veterinary forum trying, to find to anything on spayed mares. Unfortunately there was not much on there except reasons to do the procedure or complications with it. This was a few weeks ago as I was trying to find info for my friend. The incontinence was just more of a something we came up as a possiblity. I was not trying to make a diagnosis, simply something I wondered about my friends horse. She has had multiple work-ups done on her horse but no anwsers. 



Alright back on topic....So yea I am curious to what is going on? It is just such an uncommon procedure so I would like to know what you find out.


----------



## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

cowgirlfitzy said:


> Sorry not trying to be rude or have a debate but I did take a little offense to your post :-(. I know they only do a ovarioectomy in mares and I also know the anatomy of a mares reproductive system. I also do believe there is more of an hormonal reason for the urinary incontinence in small animals. I'm no DVM but I am LVT ;-)
> 
> The Vet and I went onto VIN which is a Veterinary forum trying, to find to anything on spayed mares. Unfortunately there was not much on there except reasons to do the procedure or complications with it. This was a few weeks ago as I was trying to find info for my friend. The incontinence was just more of a something we came up as a possiblity. I was not trying to make a diagnosis, simply something I wondered about my friends horse. She has had multiple work-ups done on her horse but no anwsers.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry! I meant no offense, sent you a PM.


----------



## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

Very interesting topic. Curious to see what comes out of this. Please keep us posted if you can. Would love to hear what the cause of this is.


----------



## Padrona (Apr 13, 2009)

I've done a TON (I mean a TON) of research on whether or not to spay my extremely hormonal mare with hell'ish heat cycles. I ended up talking to a vet who told me that removing the ovaries can actually make heat signs WORSE in many mares because when you remove the ovaries, you remove the mare's source of progesterone. Progesterone is reponsible for surpressing heat. There are other tissues in the body that continue to make estrogen in fairly significant doses and without the progesterone to counteract it, a lot of mares get worse. I still haven't decided what to do with my mare, but just wanted to pass on what I was told by a reproductive vet. 

I was also told that many mares learn to squat and pee as a submissive behavior, and has nothing to do with actual estrus. Instead it's a learned behavior stemming from stress, living with a very dominant alpha horse, or its just become a bad habit the same as wood chewing, weaving, or any other vice.


----------



## cowgirlfitzy (Jan 27, 2009)

Padrona said:


> I've done a TON (I mean a TON) of research on whether or not to spay my extremely hormonal mare with hell'ish heat cycles. I ended up talking to a vet who told me that removing the ovaries can actually make heat signs WORSE in many mares because when you remove the ovaries, you remove the mare's source of progesterone. Progesterone is reponsible for surpressing heat. There are other tissues in the body that continue to make estrogen in fairly significant doses and without the progesterone to counteract it, a lot of mares get worse. I still haven't decided what to do with my mare, but just wanted to pass on what I was told by a reproductive vet.
> 
> I was also told that many mares learn to squat and pee as a submissive behavior, and has nothing to do with actual estrus. Instead it's a learned behavior stemming from stress, living with a very dominant alpha horse, or its just become a bad habit the same as wood chewing, weaving, or any other vice.


 
Yea that makes sense. In my friends case, they recomemended regumate, but I believe her levels were with in normal limits. This is the first spayed mare I have came across and I'm not a fan. You like walk by her hind end and she starts squirting. She also has some pretty bad mood swings but those were there to begin with.


----------



## tazassape (Oct 8, 2008)

Sounds like you'll never have a "whole" horse. I say get rid of her before she costs you too much more!


----------

