# My horse is a bully...



## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

Bluebuck said:


> He has been at this current property for almost 12 months now, and I have noticed a steady rotation of horses in and out of his pasture. I'm theorizing that he is constantly trying to exert his dominance and is never able to settle because of the constant changes to the herd dynamics. Not to mention that he really seems to love it when mares are put in with him...
> 
> I respect that the owner of the property will have the final say, but am I wrong to bring up my concerns about the constantly changing dynamics? or is it something I just have to deal with?


If the steady rotation of horses in the pasture is due to boarders coming and leaving, there is really little to do about it. If it due to the BO/BM rotating horses around, I would talk to them about what their plan/strategy is. All the BO/BMs I know try to establish and set a harmonious balance of horses in a pasture to minimize horse personality conflicts and only suggest separating a horse as a last resort.


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## Bluebuck (Nov 4, 2014)

The rotation is due to a bit of both. Sometimes it's new boarders coming and going, sometimes it's the BO just rotating the current horses around. I guess you're probably right in that it's just the way it is going to be. The owner also runs a trail riding business, so most of their big paddocks are taken up by their trail horses. I guess I feel bad for all three parties (my horse/other horses/other boarders). I do know my boy enjoys being in a herd but I don't want him to be a danger to anyone else. I wish I could have this conversation with him lol


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

Bluebuck said:


> I guess I feel bad for all three parties (my horse/other horses/other boarders). I do know my boy enjoys being in a herd but I don't want him to be a danger to anyone else.


I'll be honest...if it were my horse, and he was just being annoying, i.e "making it difficult for other boarders to catch their horses", I would leave him in the herd. Anyone that goes out into a paddock or pasture that has a group of horses should know how to handle this situation, IMHO. If my horse was _truly dangerous_, i.e. unmanageable, I wouldn't have a problem separating him or finding another facility that may be a better fit.


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

Yes other people should know how to deal with the situation, but fact of the matter is - if I wanted to catch my horse and consistently had it chased off by another horse, or the other horse was kicking out, ect over time I would get pretty peeved off. Once in a while is one thing, but a consistent problem would ruffle my feathers. 

What happens if I chase the "annoying" (dont want to say aggresive) horse off and he injures himself, or another horse in the process? What if he comes at me and I give him a smack - that leaves me open for ridicule from other boarders/BO and a complaint may be made against me. 

I don't think the BO would make an issue out of this is there was no cause for issue. Sorry OP, but you are there long enough that the BO knows you and your horse and feels that this needs to happen.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

I have to side with the BO/BM. OP-has it occurred to you that perhaps some of the herd changes is from other boarders complaining about YOUR horse? Entirely possible, IMO. 

What happens when you get your guy out and go ride away from the herd? I would be willing to bet that your horse is pretty herd bound, and honestly-seperating him could quite possibly help you out with this in the long run.

I owned one once who, over about a year, decided that the herd was his, similar to what your situation sounds like. The BO did not deal with it, I was not aware that the issue was escalating, since he was not really an issue with me(honestly I was too inexperienced to see the subtle signs until it was dangerous). He got to the point where he was biting and kicking anyone who entered the pasture. He would charge me even with a whip. Needless to say, he was beyond my abilities at the time, and since I had small kids and wanted none hurt-he was sold. Ended up well for him with someone who could handle him, but I would have put him on a meat wagon easily. He was scary.

I tend to take my BO's word since if I can't trust their word my horse should not be there. THey see things we do not as they are there much more generally. My BO has full permission to use her judgement and do what is best for everyone.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

You may not see a problem when you get your horse out of the pasture because he is the dominant horse and the others will stay away from him, but others getting their horse out have the problem of your dominant horse bothering them and it could be difficult for them and if your horse charges, the horse being taken out could jump on the handler just trying to get away from your horse. 
I think this could bother the other boarders and if they don't have someone to help them, a big nuisance for them. Are the other horses having a lot of kick, bite marks on them? I wouldn't like that.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

I agree with PaintHorseMares in that if you board you really need to know how to pull your horse from the pasture. There will always be that pushy horse, or the curious George type. they see a human and think, 'treat time!'.

With that said, we don't know how your horse is making it 'difficult' for other boarders. Does he intimidate them, because the other boarders are easily intimidated by a pushy horse in general? Or is he truly charging the boarders with pinned ears and bared teeth? Is it really one pushy boarder is it all boarders?

The answer to those questions would change our answers no doubt. Would mine for sure.

When I first bought my gelding when he was four and moved him to a new barn, I had a problem once with one of the other horses. I went out to gather my gelding when this horse charged me with ears pinned, teeth bared, and eyes rolled back like a shark. I had nothing in my hands but a halter and lead rope. Survival instincts took over and that charging horse got the halter square across the face. Never had a problem again. In fact I would go out to get my gelding he would walk the other way. I would even purposefully walk in his path and he moved from me.

He was still pushy with others, but he left me and mine alone.


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## Bluebuck (Nov 4, 2014)

Thanks for all of the advice guys. I just want to clear up that I in no way approve of his apparent bad behaviour. The BOs are sensible people, and I trust that they would not make this an issue if it wasn't one. 
He apparently is not being aggressive, but IS chasing off other people's horses when they enter the paddock. I do understand how this would be annoying, I'd be annoyed if it were me too. 

As for herd bound, I guess I would say that he is a little, but barely. I have no trouble at all taking him from the paddock and going for a ride (the other horses call for him) but he does call once or twice on the way back. He never get rushy or silly though. 

As a first time boarder, I wasn't really sure how the dynamics work. I'm still learning what is the norm in these situations and I'm sure some of these suggestions seem obvious to people. I appreciate hearing 'the other side '


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## Bluebuck (Nov 4, 2014)

Franknbeans, the horses weren't moved due to my horse. The horses that have moved on to another place have done so because the owners moved, sold the horse etc. The horses that have changed paddocks have done so because they belong to some of the staff at the property and they move them up to the house yards to use them as school and trail horses (much more convenient, especially over the holiday periods). These horses are usually in and out of the paddock that my boy is in a few weeks at a time


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Years ago my mare was in with others. Catching her was the easy part, it was when we were close to the gate that problems developed. I started carrying a lunge whip and used it to warn the others to keep their distance. I'm sure their behaviour was that they didn't want her to leave but they'd settle down within a few minutes.


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## Bluebuck (Nov 4, 2014)

Woodhaven said:


> You may not see a problem when you get your horse out of the pasture because he is the dominant horse and the others will stay away from him, but others getting their horse out have the problem of your dominant horse bothering them and it could be difficult for them


Definitely a fair point!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

Bluebuck said:


> Definitely a fair point!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do you know any of the other boarders? It would interesting to know your horse's behavior if you went and fetched another boarder's horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bluebuck (Nov 4, 2014)

PaintHorseMares said:


> Do you know any of the other boarders? It would interesting to know your horse's behavior if you went and fetched another boarder's horse.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not well, I see someone VERY occasionally. I am meeting with the BO either tomorrow or the day after so she may let me fetch her horse so I can see what mine does. Though, mind you, I won't be afraid to take my dressage whip!

There is a very friendly native type in there that always comes up for a nice long pat. My boy never has an issue with that, but then I'm not trying to remove him from the paddock. Thinking about it, I can and have approached all of the horses that have been in there (or they've approached me) without an issue. Maybe my boy knows I won't take his rubbish? I think I'll have to try and get a clearer picture when I see the BO


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Where I currently board, one of the other boarder's horses had to literally be kept in "solitary confinement". He was a nice horse to ride and be around, but the instant he was in a herd situation, he would go out of his way to viciously attack and chase the other horses. It wasn't safe. Our BO was completely correct in locking the horse up in its own corral, away from the other horses. 

You can't control herd dynamics. You can't control which horse is the dominant one. 

I think it is smart for your BO to recognize this and come up with a plan that will keep everyone's best interests at heart, in a way that is fair. 

If I were one of the other boarders, I would want the overly dominant horse in a separate area as well.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I'm afraid I'm also on the side of the BO - When you're on a boarding facility you're amongst owners with all sorts of levels of capability, sometimes even quite young people and they shouldn't have to go in with a whip to chase off someone else's horse to be able to get their own one in - a lot of them won't even feel confident to do it or be able to manage to hold and lead their own horse while cracking a whip at someone else's
To be honest I wouldn't want a horse of mine to be subjected to that by another person anyway - you could find if he's constantly being driven away by humans he'll start being hard to catch or someone's going to catch him in the eye with the end of a lunge whip


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

As the owner of a herd, and 3 dominant types, I can tell you what's going on. Your horse respects you, my most dominant horse wouldn't dream of acting up when I'm around, but other boarders not so much. So when you go out, you've established you are the #1 and thus you can handle and catch anyone out in his paddock. Anyone else though, has not earned his respect and so he crowds the other horses away, chases them off with his teeth showing, whatever to keep them in their places. It is annoying and it can be dangerous. If I were a boarder, I would tell the BO I wanted my horse out of that particular group or, if I were a less dominant type myself, I would just find other lodging for my horse. 

As a barn owner, if I had those dynamics in my pasture, I'd rotate other horses in and out of the situation looking for the horse that would kick your horse's butt and put him in his place or be the horse your horse buddies up to and takes his attention off the other horses. That can take a while to achieve and after a year of 1 horse sowing hate and discontent (humanizing the situation of course), then I'd probably put him in his own paddock next to the others but not in with them. As a boarder, you'd only have the choice of accepting that or moving because 1 boarder being unhappy beats a whole bunch of boarders being unhappy and moving their horses.

Since I own the unruly ******s in my pasture, I kept looking for that ONE who would tell Patti she had better stand down and would be able to make it stick. It took me 10 years, but I found the mare that can back Patti down with a look. Now if I can only find the one who can tell Cloney to stand down and make it stick. He's much less aggressive about it but he's very dominant with the others and even when I'm out there will tell one not to approach me. Sometimes we have to have "THE TALK" to remind him who really owns that pasture.


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## Bluebuck (Nov 4, 2014)

Thank everyone, I certainly don't blame the BO and I appreciate all the advice/suggestions/thoughts 

We did have that horse that could make mine back down with a look, it was great! But as he was a rig, he was moved out when some mares were bought in. Bummer.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Bluebuck said:


> Thank everyone, I certainly don't blame the BO and I appreciate all the advice/suggestions/thoughts
> 
> We did have that horse that could make mine back down with a look, it was great! But as he was a rig, he was moved out when some mares were bought in. Bummer.


It sounds like your best bet would be to go into his own paddock, next to and near enough that he can see, hear and smell but not touch the other horses. That way he won't feel exiled and the boarders don't have to worry about his antics. 

Horses and people are funny. When I have someone who wants a "ride" on one of my horses (toss a little kid up on his back and lead them around the property), my GOTO guy is my stallion. He's very laid back and mannerly and would lay down and die before he'd hurt anyone. So, little kid wants a ride, I toss her up on Skippy and we go all over the place, happy go lucky. 

Her father later commented he was initially surprised at my choice for his daughter because HE found Skippy intimidating. WHAT? :shock: SKIP THE DIP? And then I looked at him again. He's not that long yearling I see in my mind's eye anymore. He's 5 years old and is close to 16 hh and has muscled up to about 1400-1500 lbs and muscles everywhere. By Golly, he IS kind of intimidating if you don't know him!










Skip as a long yearling being chased by 6 month old Harley


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

Is there enough pastures to keep geldings in one field and mares in a different field?


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## Bluebuck (Nov 4, 2014)

Well I went out and saw the BO today. She was very reasonable and understanding. She told me that while he's always been dominant (I knew this) it hadn't been an issue but has escalated recently due to the only mare in the paddock coming into season - he was actually seen mounting her :-/
As a result of his stud muffin ways he has been giving one of the other geldings a bit of a hard time even after the mare has come out of season. He hadn't been aggressive of dangerous towards people (Thank goodness!). She had hoped he would settle but he hasn't, so as of today he has been banished from the main paddock and put into their largest individual yard, which I am greatful for. 

They've offered to supply the hay for $10 extra a week, which I think is generous and leaves me with absolutely nothing to complain about. He has two other horses across the lane way from him so hopefully he won't be too lonely and I can cross my fingers that he might decide it's better to behave and have company (I can dream, right?)

We are going to assess his behaviour and trial some new horses with him to see if he can behave himself. If he can't... Well it is what it is.

If anyone has a grumpy old broodmare who would love to teach him some manners send her to me! Lol

The BO has only been running the boarding side of business for 12 months (I was her first boarder) so she is still working some things out. She did mention that she is trying to sort out some separate gelding and mare paddocks so hopefully that may be an option in the future


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

That's good news and it sounds like you have a very reasonable BO.



Bluebuck said:


> The BO has only been running the boarding side of business for 12 months (I was her first boarder) so she is still working some things out. She did mention that she is trying to sort out some separate gelding and mare paddocks so hopefully that may be an option in the future


Your situation is not uncommon at all, and one of the reasons that many barns do separate mares and geldings.



Bluebuck said:


> If anyone has a grumpy old broodmare who would love to teach him some manners send her to me! Lol


Here's our 19 year old boss broodmare telling our yearling colt (the black/white) that splashing water in her face is NOT acceptable. LOL.


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## Bluebuck (Nov 4, 2014)

Lol I love it^
He looks like he doesn't know what's coming - yet
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

Bluebuck said:


> Lol I love it^
> He looks like he doesn't know what's coming - yet
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


;-) Here is what precipitated her "look". You can see that his splashing was already annoying her. She didn't bite him, but just the look got him to jump back a few feet.


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## Regula (Jan 23, 2012)

Herd dynamics can change so much depending on which horses are put together. My gelding has been everything - in one herd (two mares and him) he was the bossy type who would herd the other horses away from their owners. In another herd (all geldings) he was the very bottom of the totem pole.
It sucks either way. It sucks to be the owner of the nasty one who gives other horses and people trouble, and it also sucks to see new bite marks every time you visit and your horse is losing condition in the winter cause he gets chased off his hay all the time. 

The last BO (where my horse was at the bottom of the herd) thought that this is just the natural way horses are and that I should grow a pair. I didn't appreciate that very much.

I found that what works best for us is putting him together with one other horse. That's enough for company, but not a big enough herd to develop full blown herd dynamics.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jacks329nd (May 5, 2014)

If the BO is rotating horses, there must be more than one pasture. What about putting your horse in a different one with a more consistent heard. 

At the boarding facility I am at the BM tries multiple solution to problems like these. My 11 year old QH mare, for example, is a very dominant horse when she is in a heard of about 15 horses her age and younger. However, if she is put out into one of the larger pastures with a bigger group of horses, she gets her butt kicked and begins to drop weight. The solution was to just keep her in a smaller heard.


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## zandstrafarms (Feb 14, 2015)

How often do you go out to see your horse and for how long? I had a very dominate horse like yours. He was 23 and traded around for a long time, previous history unknown but most likely rodeo circuit. Very dominate and agressive to humans and horses. He was very smart though. Owners before me rarely saw him and other boarders reported agressive bahavior and that's why he was sold.
I out him in a pasture with another gelding and had no issues, but I spent time daily with him and he was great even around the toddler.

Buuut, as soon as I got a new horse as his riding skills surpassed my own, he was acting up again and pushy with me and the other horses. Not nean, just pushy. Mainly with my new horse. Got a horse for the hubby and eventually my old horse keft. Hubby's horse sweet but still dominant over my boy. My boy is 5 and learning social cues, so hubby's horse who SEEMS aggressive has chewed him up from one end to the other. But my horse also gets more attention too.

Neighbor boards horses and like yours she has one horse alone in small pen. Says he's too agreaside with the others. However, his owner NEVER sees him or spends time with him.

Horses are conditioned to be with people, and when their person is not around different horses react differently. Some get agressive others sulk.

Even my boy when I was only out to feed twice a day and was busy for 2 months was standoffish and refused to come close to me. Took him out and worked him two days in a row and now he's all happy to see me 

Bottom line, he shouldn't have to be alone. Just need to get in his head a bit and see what's up 
Suzanne


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

There will always be herd dynamics but the ideal situation, especially when other owners and their horses are involved, is to make up a smaller herd of horses that do well together. I am usually against the "mares with mares and geldings with geldings" rule but in the case of your horse, if the mare is causing the problem, it would be better for all concerned, for your horse to be in a group of geldings. I have owned two horses that could be a problem if someone they didn't know entered the pasture. One was a Saddlebred mare, and the other was a TB stallion. However both were turned out with our horses and there was no reason for a stranger to be there, so it was never an issue. The one thing I would do, just for your own peace of mind is to try to observe your horse's behavior for yourself. I am not doubting the BO at all, I just think it would make you feel better about whatever needs to be done to correct the situation. Good luck


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