# What kind of abuse goes on in reining?



## Roperchick

it used to be pretty bad but now they have certain rules. no harsh bits after your ride you have to present yourself to the judge and take out your horses bit to show that it is one of the legal ones. and you are working on your horses natural movements.

overall it really is more human than many other disiplines.


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## CloudsMystique

Roperchick said:


> it used to be pretty bad but now they have certain rules. no harsh bits after your ride you have to present yourself to the judge and take out your horses bit to show that it is one of the legal ones. and you are working on your horses natural movements.
> 
> overall it really is more human than many other disiplines.


 
Cool, thanks for replying : ]


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## paint gurl 23

I have heard it can break them down over time especially if they are too big for it. Wether thats true or not I dont know.


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## CloudsMystique

paint gurl 23 said:


> I have heard it can break them down over time especially if they are too big for it. Wether thats true or not I dont know.


That makes sense, and probably has a lot to do with them being started so young.

What do you think "too big" is? My mare's 15hh, which I know is on the large side for a reiner.


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## chika1235

i dont think 15 hh is too big to be a reiner. ive never done reining but id love to try it! it looks like a lot of fun!


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## MIEventer

I think "abuse" reates to all disciplines of the Equestrian World - the question is, what kind of a person are you, and are you willing to put you or the ribbon/trophy before your horses wellbeing?

If you are someone who puts your horse first, then there wont be a problem  Unfortunately, there are far too many who put winning first and use their horses as an object, not a living creature that it is.

Horses break down due to conformation not compatable for the sport they are being asked to do, all the time - regardless if it is Jumping, Eventing, Dressage, Reining, Barrels, WP and the list goes on - riders have to be educated on that matter, and listen to their horses when they say "I can't do this"

Cloud, you seem to be a big hearted, careing person for those around you and your horses - I don't think there would be a problem, if you want to venture into this sport, then do so - you are intelligent and strong enough of a person to defend your horse, yourself and your horses rights.


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## CloudsMystique

MIEventer said:


> I think "abuse" reates to all disciplines of the Equestrian World - the question is, what kind of a person are you, and are you willing to put you or the ribbon/trophy before your horses wellbeing?
> 
> If you are someone who puts your horse first, then there wont be a problem  Unfortunately, there are far too many who put winning first and use their horses as an object, not a living creature that it is.
> 
> Horses break down due to conformation not compatable for the sport they are being asked to do, all the time - regardless if it is Jumping, Eventing, Dressage, Reining, Barrels, WP and the list goes on - riders have to be educated on that matter, and listen to their horses when they say "I can't do this"
> 
> Cloud, you seem to be a big hearted, careing person for those around you and your horses - I don't think there would be a problem, if you want to venture into this sport, then do so - you are intelligent and strong enough of a person to defend your horse, yourself and your horses rights.


 
Thank you : ]


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## Honeysuga

I agree with MIEventer. You seem to be the type of owner who does not believe that the few minutes of suffering is necessary to win your prizes, you seem to genuinely care about your horse and want to try something fun and challenging. I think you guys would be great in reining.


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## CloudsMystique

Honeysuga said:


> I agree with MIEventer. You seem to be the type of owner who does not believe that the few minutes of suffering is necessary to win your prizes, you seem to genuinely care about your horse and want to try something fun and challenging. I think you guys would be great in reining.


Thanks! I definitely care about her. She's been a happy trail horse for her first two and a half years under saddle, and if she doesn't like reining we won't do it anymore. I'm not doing it to win the NRHA championship - I just want to try something new.


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## nrhareiner

I think every discipline has it problems. When you are talking reining then you are talking NRHA. With in NRHA there are VERY Strict rules about what goes on at shows. One if you are caught abusing your horses then WILL suspend you. Some of the biggest names in NRHA have been suspended at times. Dose not matter who you are. EVERY class is filmed.

At the end of each run you MUST drop bit to the bit judge this is not only to see if the bit is legal but also to make sure you have not marked your horses mouth. They also will walk ALL the way around your horse lift stirrups and tails. If there is so much as a scratch on your horse you are DQ right there analthen. 

I have lost over $1000 in prize money in both NRHA and NRCHA b/c my horse has been marked and by marked I mean a scratch that took 3 judges about 10 min to decide on.


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## CloudsMystique

nrhareiner said:


> I think every discipline has it problems. When you are talking reining then you are talking NRHA. With in NRHA there are VERY Strict rules about what goes on at shows. One if you are caught abusing your horses then WILL suspend you. Some of the biggest names in NRHA have been suspended at times. Dose not matter who you are. EVERY class is filmed.
> 
> At the end of each run you MUST drop bit to the bit judge this is not only to see if the bit is legal but also to make sure you have not marked your horses mouth. They also will walk ALL the way around your horse lift stirrups and tails. If there is so much as a scratch on your horse you are DQ right there analthen.
> 
> I have lost over $1000 in prize money in both NRHA and NRCHA b/c my horse has been marked and by marked I mean a scratch that took 3 judges about 10 min to decide on.


Wow, really? So if your horse gets an injury in the pasture a couple days before the show (and your vet tells you it's perfectly fine to show him), you could be DQd?


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## MIEventer

Pssht, Nelson would be a FAIL then in Reining - he plays alot with the other horses and ends up coming in for dinner looking like a cat scratch toy. Bite marks here, no hair there.

Seems sorta "extreme" if you know what I mean - I am all for protecting horses and punnishing those who put themselves first and their horses last to win - but if your horse has natural marks from being out in pasture or due to their stupidity and get DQ'd for that, seems unfair.


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## nrhareiner

Well if they think it is from your spurs or bit then yes. If you have a injury from something unrelated to training or showing the horse and you have a vet note stating he is fine to show and you present it to the show secretary when you register you should have no problem. NRHA is quite strict when it comes to marking of a horse with spurs or bits. If say your horse clipped his leg in the pattern that would not get you DQ as that is not something YOU did to the horse. 

The idea is to keep riders from using rock grinders to get their horse to spin faster stop hard with pulling on a harsher bit and so on. Really sucks when you have a light skinned horse. They seem to mark easier then darker horses.


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## Honeysuga

I think it is great they think so highly of the horses welfare. That is an organization I would be proud to be a part of. Though I bet it does suck to be DQed over a little scratch you did not do..but all for the greater good....


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## nrhareiner

No if they DO you you marked the horse although maybe nothing more then a scratch.


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## Juniper

The trainer I sent my horse to is a reining trainer. They are fairly competitive. All the horses in the barn have good attitudes. However they train seems to agree with the horses.


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## CloudsMystique

nrhareiner said:


> Well if they think it is from your spurs or bit then yes. If you have a injury from something unrelated to training or showing the horse and you have a vet note stating he is fine to show and you present it to the show secretary when you register you should have no problem. NRHA is quite strict when it comes to marking of a horse with spurs or bits. If say your horse clipped his leg in the pattern that would not get you DQ as that is not something YOU did to the horse.
> 
> The idea is to keep riders from using rock grinders to get their horse to spin faster stop hard with pulling on a harsher bit and so on. Really sucks when you have a light skinned horse. They seem to mark easier then darker horses.


Oh, that's great, then.

Why do they lift tails, though?

Do they have restrictions on the type of protective boots you can use in the show ring?


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## CloudsMystique

Honeysuga said:


> I think it is great they think so highly of the horses welfare. That is an organization I would be proud to be a part of. Though I bet it does suck to be DQed over a little scratch you did not do..but all for the greater good....


I agree. The TWHBEA should take some notes from them.


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## ReiningTrainer

MIEventer said:


> I think "abuse" reates to all disciplines of the Equestrian World - the question is, what kind of a person are you, and are you willing to put you or the ribbon/trophy before your horses wellbeing?
> 
> If you are someone who puts your horse first, then there wont be a problem  Unfortunately, there are far too many who put winning first and use their horses as an object, not a living creature that it is.
> 
> Horses break down due to conformation not compatable for the sport they are being asked to do, all the time - regardless if it is Jumping, Eventing, Dressage, Reining, Barrels, WP and the list goes on - riders have to be educated on that matter, and listen to their horses when they say "I can't do this"
> 
> Cloud, you seem to be a big hearted, careing person for those around you and your horses - I don't think there would be a problem, if you want to venture into this sport, then do so - you are intelligent and strong enough of a person to defend your horse, yourself and your horses rights.


Well said. There are reasons why some breeds excel in their sport, so if you want to compete on a large scale, choose the right breed and confirmation. Almost any horse can learn reining, but if you push the wrong horse too hard you could do damage.


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## Tasia

I work at HUGE reining barn and my horse in a reiner. I personally do not see alot of abuse but as others said there is VERY strict rules in the NRHA. So I am not sure what kinds of tools are considered cruel or not.


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## Pidge

I work at a reining barn and two of my best pro friends are reining trainers. I dont see any abuse. The closest I think i would say is when one of them works one his horses hard on stops. they end up a tad sore in the hind end but if he stops them alot one day he wont ride them the next an wont stop them again for a week. So i dont see any abuse there. (By stops i mean the whole sliding stop lol) but i imagine squatting an sliding during most of your work out would make any horses muscles a bit sore sorta like when a person does to many squat jumps.


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## CloudsMystique

Cool, thanks for sharing ReiningTrainer, Tasia, and Pidge : ]


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## smrobs

I don't think that there is really much abuse, persay, in reining. Of course, there will always be those people who do spur their horses into a spin or use the vicious bits harshly, but those happen anywhere. Most injuries that are seen in reining are a byproduct of what you are asking the horse to do. It is hard on joints to stop so hard so often and pivot so fast for those spins, especially if the horse hasn't been taught how to properly spin. Many reiners end up with arthritis in their hocks but that is just more from wear and tear, not abuse. Though I think that the use of draw reins is way overdone nowadays to get that super low, super behind the vertical appearance of many reining horses.

That being said, you have a good head on your shoulders and are very sensible when it comes to your horses. I don't believe that you would ever endanger their health or happiness just to get a win. I think that every horse would benefit from reining training, those are some of the most well-trained horses out there. Though some of them are overtrained, but that is just IMHO.


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## nrhareiner

I know a lot of reining trainers and most of them have low headed horses including the trainer I use and non of them use draw reins. You can get a nice head set with out using things like Draw reins.


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## SorrelHorse

I go out to Todd Bergen's place adn i never see any abuse there. And when I'm out on my reiners I never see much. But abuse depends entirely on the rider. If the rider is abusive, the sport is abusive. Like Barrel Racing. Its a great sport, but when those idiot people get on a hot, spazzed horse and beat it down with the crop and rips up its coat with spurs, then it becomes abuse. 

If you ride on a nice, supple, horse with a loose rein and gentle commands, there's nothing abusive about it. However, I have seen people yanking the bit, digging in their heels and whipping the head around and back ina ll sorts of directions. I don't like that. In reining, you shouldn't be in a harsh bit and be all up in your horses mouth. A harsh bit is fine, as long as you know how to use it properly. A rider can be abusive in a snaffle. It has nothing to do with the bit itself, just the idiot on the other end of the reins.


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## CloudsMystique

smrobs said:


> I don't think that there is really much abuse, persay, in reining. Of course, there will always be those people who do spur their horses into a spin or use the vicious bits harshly, but those happen anywhere. Most injuries that are seen in reining are a byproduct of what you are asking the horse to do. It is hard on joints to stop so hard so often and pivot so fast for those spins, especially if the horse hasn't been taught how to properly spin. Many reiners end up with arthritis in their hocks but that is just more from wear and tear, not abuse. Though I think that the use of draw reins is way overdone nowadays to get that super low, super behind the vertical appearance of many reining horses.
> 
> That being said, you have a good head on your shoulders and are very sensible when it comes to your horses. I don't believe that you would ever endanger their health or happiness just to get a win. I think that every horse would benefit from reining training, those are some of the most well-trained horses out there. Though some of them are overtrained, but that is just IMHO.





SorrelHorse said:


> I go out to Todd Bergen's place adn i never see any abuse there. And when I'm out on my reiners I never see much. But abuse depends entirely on the rider. If the rider is abusive, the sport is abusive. Like Barrel Racing. Its a great sport, but when those idiot people get on a hot, spazzed horse and beat it down with the crop and rips up its coat with spurs, then it becomes abuse.
> 
> If you ride on a nice, supple, horse with a loose rein and gentle commands, there's nothing abusive about it. However, I have seen people yanking the bit, digging in their heels and whipping the head around and back ina ll sorts of directions. I don't like that. In reining, you shouldn't be in a harsh bit and be all up in your horses mouth. A harsh bit is fine, as long as you know how to use it properly. A rider can be abusive in a snaffle. It has nothing to do with the bit itself, just the idiot on the other end of the reins.


 
Thanks guys : ]


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## Hoofprints in the Sand

CloudsMystique said:


> I agree. The TWHBEA should take some notes from them.


haha oh you've been following that thread too huh? Yes they should!!!


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## nrhareiner

Reining is not a discipline that is conducive to abusive practices. If the horse are not happy and willingly working they will not score well. That is the whole thing about reining is to make the horse look like it is a willing partner. To do that the horse must enjoy what it is doing and be happy doing it. All my reiners LOVE to work they love to be ridden and they love to show. This is what helps you get a good score.


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## paint gurl 23

CloudsMystique said:


> That makes sense, and probably has a lot to do with them being started so young.
> 
> What do you think "too big" is? My mare's 15hh, which I know is on the large side for a reiner.


Sorry I kind of forgot about this thread..lol..I dont think 15 hh is too big but it depends on the comformation as has already been said. I worked at this place who had a finished reining stud who had problems with his shoulders at age 9...he was bred for reining and was trained only in reining for a full year. Very nice stud, hes is 15.1...I could ride him and his half brother (who is also a stud) bareback with just a halter. Like some have said as well, educuation is key in any event and commen sense  listening to your horse will prevent alot of issues.


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## BritishReiner

Hey there,

I too am starting out in reining with a mare.

All I would say is that just because a horse is enjoying something doesn't mean its good for them. I have a friend who has a reining Stallion that can now barely stand up, he is just 14. He was started out training for reining like any other high flying reining horse and loved it. The owners, although already being very good riders didn't know that if you did it intensively it could damage the horse later on in life: the horse wanted to carry on spinning, they let him carry on spinning, they loved it, the horse loved it, they didn't see the problem. It all went very smoothly for years winning regional,French,European reining titles and even being invited to the worlds.
Now this once beautiful stallion has severe arthritis and can barely walk. The moral of the story: *just because a horse is enjoying something doesn't mean its good for them.*


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## nrhareiner

This is why people who are not familiar with reining NEED to get a reining trainer and bet a mentor that has been reining for some time and understand what is involved. 

A reining horse only has so many spins and stops in them and once they know how do the maneuver and do it correctly and well then it is not something you keep working on. Once the horse is trained the work done is keeping them legged up and you might stop them and turn them once a week if that. I typically only work on stops and turns the week before a show and the rest of the time is used loping and keeping the horse in good shape. Do a lot of side passing and moving them around and stuff to keep them supple and responsive.


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## FGRanch

Most of the training that goes into a reiner isn't actually the stops and spins. My trainer spends very little times on stops and spins and much more time on body control. Side passing, moving the hips, moving the shoulders, counter canters, lead changes etc.


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## nrhareiner

There is where it needs to be put. However you get people who are new to reining and what you get is a person who thinks stopping and turning is fun so they keep doing it or they need to practice even if the horse dose not so they keep making the horse stop and turn and do not understand that is not good. 

I am kind of in the market for a practice reiner my self. Not sure if I will or not but if I find one at a good price I might pick one up for just that reason. Gives me a horse to practice with and not run my good show horses into the ground.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand

nrhareiner said:


> A reining horse only has so many spins and stops in them and once they know how do the maneuver and do it correctly and well then it is not something you keep working on. Once the horse is trained the work done is keeping them legged up and you might stop them and turn them once a week if that. I typically only work on stops and turns the week before a show and the rest of the time is used loping and keeping the horse in good shape. Do a lot of side passing and moving them around and stuff to keep them supple and responsive.


This is also true for horses that jump, so I'm so glad you brought this up!  Once they learn how, you shouldn't do it ALL the time with them, they only have so many jumps in them. And a 3 ft. jump is not equal to a 1.5 ft cross rail...the 3 ft. jump "uses up" more jumps for the horse than a little cross rail does. Once a horse has learned to jump 3 ft. most people won't practice at that level, they'll move back down again.


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## StylishK

FehrGroundRanch said:


> Most of the training that goes into a reiner isn't actually the stops and spins. My trainer spends very little times on stops and spins and much more time on body control. Side passing, moving the hips, moving the shoulders, counter canters, lead changes etc.


This is similar to my mares program most of the time. Slower work imo is more important than the fun stuff


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## CloudsMystique

Yeah, we don't do a lot of work on spins and stops. Most of my lessons are spent on loping circles, lead changes, and bending. Then we do slow rundowns for 5-10 minutes at the end.


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