# Back to the Beginning Again



## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I just wanted to say "welcome" and I love your photos! I hope you find a great place to ride and learn more about horses. :smile:


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## rmissildine (Feb 1, 2019)

_ akihba,_
Well, you started out on the right foot. I too loved the pictures and the progress. Hopefully, when you get down (or up, not sure where Bellevue is) to Seattle, you'll find the perfect fit for you and any horse you may choose to enter into a relationship with.


As a side note, back in the mid 70's when I was in the Navy, I was stationed across the sound from Seattle in Bremerton. I got the chance to travel around that area of Washington state a bit and loved the scenery, beautiful area. 



Good luck with everything, and keep us updated with all the wonderful pictures...


Roger


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

Welcome back to the forum! Glad you've decided to post! Love your photos! Best of luck finding a barn, Im sure you'll find one that you really enjoy, hopefully soon!


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Nice beginning to your journal...


Might I suggest you look to work/volunteer/ride at a barn who has riding programs for the challenged, aka handicapped riding.
Sign language is known, used and someone with a disability is worked with, accommodated and sought in these programs.
You can just ride to ride or ride to show as Special Olympics has equestrian activities for riders of many disability and ability.
Barns with certified instructors with PATH or NAHRA designation might be a place to search for also.
I do not know where exactly in your state places exist but you can do some fact finding and go look for a new home to ride, spend time at, work and just do horse when and as you can.
:runninghorse2:....


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## Cedar & Salty (Jul 6, 2018)

I agree with @horselovinguy. Find a therapy barn where your life experiences will be embraced and you can help others. It may be hard to find, but I'm sure the right barn is out there. 

Welcome and thanks for sharing your journey!


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## akihba (Jul 8, 2013)

Thank you all for your kind words!




horselovinguy said:


> Nice beginning to your journal...
> 
> 
> Might I suggest you look to work/volunteer/ride at a barn who has riding programs for the challenged, aka handicapped riding.
> ...


Thanks for the tip! I actually know of a therapy riding place, but it's a bit too far for my liking. I do know someone who has volunteered there in the past, so I'll ask her for more details and see if it would be a good fit for me. In the meantime I'll keep searching.


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## whisperbaby22 (Jan 25, 2013)

Good luck with your search.


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## akihba (Jul 8, 2013)

whisperbaby22 said:


> Good luck with your search.


Thank you! I actually found a place that would be a good starting point for me... 

So I bit the bullet and submitted a volunteer form. The place is a therapeutic riding program, and accommodates people with disabilities of all sorts. 

On the list under “Skills” they had ‘American Sign Language’ as something I could check.

And let me say… that one little thing was a big self esteem boost.

Oftentimes people don’t recognize ASL as an actual skill, or an actual second language that is as valuable as say, knowing Spanish or German.

Allowing me to say “heck yeah, I know ASL and that is a skill I have, which I could use to help others!” really means a lot to me. 

Anyways, fingers crossed I can get something to work out.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Welcome 'back' to the forum! :welcome:

I am definitely interested in keeping up with your journal posts. I think you are definitely going in the right direction. I also agree, try not to find a place that all the snobs will go to... :lol: Can't stand those people!

The therapeutic riding program sounds like a great idea, especially the ASL stuff. That would be a great opportunity. Crossing my fingers for you!


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## rmissildine (Feb 1, 2019)

akihba said:


> Thank you! I actually found a place that would be a good starting point for me...
> 
> So I bit the bullet and submitted a volunteer form. The place is a therapeutic riding program, and accommodates people with disabilities of all sorts.
> 
> ...



That is GREAT!! I too hope everything works in your favor.
Keep us posted with the progress.


Roger


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## whisperbaby22 (Jan 25, 2013)

That is great. Hopefully this will work out for you.


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## akihba (Jul 8, 2013)

A small update. 

I'm scheduled to meet with the therapeutic riding place on the 25th. 

Yesterday I visited another barn nearby, and was pleasant with how it went. The trainer there was very welcoming and willing to learn what it takes to communicate with me. I taught her the sign for "horse"  I appreciated the laid-back environment, and the training style she does with her horses aligns with my own values. It was a great tour, and she invited me to come by and help out with her lessons if I was interested in doing that. Since I'll be moving away soon, I figure I'll take her up on that opportunity for as long as I can. Although it'll be temporary, I think that easing my foot into the horse world would be good for me. It'll be beneficial for me to learn how to find a place for myself at a barn where I'll be around a lot of other people and horses that I don't know. 

And I got to pet a lot of horsies! I also learned how to tie a rope halter. Never used one of those before!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I forget, perhaps you already said, but can you read lips?


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## rmissildine (Feb 1, 2019)

akihba,
That's great. It's such a goood feeling to be able to work with people who understand that just because you have a slight handicap, doesn't mean that you don't understand and can't be productive...
I'm happy for you and look forward to hearing more...


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## akihba (Jul 8, 2013)

tinyliny said:


> I forget, perhaps you already said, but can you read lips?


A little bit. It's a lot of effort though, and I often don't know 100% what they're saying until after they finish their sentence and I try to quickly piece together the words that I did catch. If I'm not fast enough to assemble the words into a sentence that makes sense, I end up leaving the other person 'hanging' while my brain is working in overtime. Oftentimes in body language, you nod as you listen to the other person to indicate that you are paying attention and understanding them. I do that, but sometimes after nodding, I piece together what was said in my head and realize that I_ don't_ understand, or that a question was asked of me, and I have to shift 180 to the appropriate body language. Yesterday I had my girlfriend come along to interpret for me, but going forwards I'll be on my own. 

Fun fact: only about 40% of the English language is distinct on the lips. This results in a pretty big margin of error 








rmissildine said:


> akihba,
> That's great. It's such a goood feeling to be able to work with people who understand that just because you have a slight handicap, doesn't mean that you don't understand and can't be productive...
> I'm happy for you and look forward to hearing more...


Yes exactly, thank you! I left the barn yesterday feeling really great. The trainer and I spoke a bit about my deafness, and she was very enthusiastic to listen to my perspective on some things. She asked me a question which I found interesting, as I wasn't expecting such a thing to come from a horse trainer, which was: "Do you feel fulfilled in your ability to express yourself?" 

I said, well... it depends. Not everyone gives me the opportunity to express myself. I explained that some people shut me out due to my disability, and so I am unable to truly be myself in those situations. I'm still reflecting on that question. I think it's important for me to figure out how to overcome that in situations where it's out of my control, maybe? Dunno, just thinking out loud.


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## rmissildine (Feb 1, 2019)

akihba,
_"Do you feel fulfilled in your ability to express yourself?" 
_ 
I worked for a national company as a personnel recruiter for a few years. We went through periodic training sessions for interviewing potential employees. While not exactly the words she used, we had a similar question. It does get you to thinking, doesn't it?
Your expressions don't necessarily have to be verbal. They can be facial or through body language.
When people you're around "shut you out", because of your disability, it's mainly because they feel uncomfortable and are unsure of themselves with their inability to be able to communicate with you. And then their are those that don't want to take the time to TRY to understand you and communicate with you.


Think about it, you'll get it.


Best of luck,


Roger


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I think that sounds lovely.  Glad everything is going so well. Yeah, rope halters can be confusing at first. LOL, took a bit for me to get it, but now it's cake. :lol:


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

I have a hearing loss, for which my family is not patient or understanding, particularly my husband. He will say something that sounds just like that video you posted, like "The fish are in the goat pen." I stand there trying to figure out what he was really saying, and he gets really upset and angry because, as he says, "You're not listening!" No, I'm not understanding.

Here is a funny story about my grandmother and grandfather, who both had severe hearing loss. My granddaddy had been quite sick, and their pastor from church stopped in to visit him. My grandma said, "He's out walking," because he was finally feeling better.

Their pastor said, "Oh, then he won't need me."

And my grandma, thinking he said, "Oh, then he won't eat meat," replied, "No, he never did."

When she saw the horrified look on the pastor's face, she knew she had mis-heard something and replied something completely wrong.


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## akihba (Jul 8, 2013)

knightrider said:


> I have a hearing loss, for which my family is not patient or understanding, particularly my husband. He will say something that sounds just like that video you posted, like "The fish are in the goat pen." I stand there trying to figure out what he was really saying, and he gets really upset and angry because, as he says, "You're not listening!" No, I'm not understanding.
> 
> Here is a funny story about my grandmother and grandfather, who both had severe hearing loss. My granddaddy had been quite sick, and their pastor from church stopped in to visit him. My grandma said, "He's out walking," because he was finally feeling better.
> 
> ...


:lol: that is hilarious! I have my fair share of misunderstandings, but nothing like that lol!


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## rmissildine (Feb 1, 2019)

Just for the record. My wife is deaf in her left ear, and only about 40% hearing in her right. When we first met, she did not disclose this to me, so I found myself repeating myself quite often. One day I just ask her if she had a hearing problem (I had no clue and was a tad irritated), lo and behold, she admitted to me that she did. Well, I felt like a jerk after that!!!

I got her a hearing aid for her right ear which she now wears, but, sometimes, I think she may pretend that she doesn't hear me just because she doesn't really want to hear what I'm saying.....
Anyway, she is my heart, and I just smile now and ask, baby, did you hear me? Usually I'll get either a yes, and I'll let it go, and sometimes I still have to repeat myself, but I wouldn't trade her for the world.


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## akihba (Jul 8, 2013)

rmissildine said:


> Just for the record. My wife is deaf in her left ear, and only about 40% hearing in her right. When we first met, she did not disclose this to me, so I found myself repeating myself quite often. One day I just ask her if she had a hearing problem (I had no clue and was a tad irritated), lo and behold, she admitted to me that she did. Well, I felt like a jerk after that!!!
> 
> I got her a hearing aid for her right ear which she now wears, but, sometimes, I think she may pretend that she doesn't hear me just because she doesn't really want to hear what I'm saying.....
> Anyway, she is my heart, and I just smile now and ask, baby, did you hear me? Usually I'll get either a yes, and I'll let it go, and sometimes I still have to repeat myself, but I wouldn't trade her for the world.


Aw, how sweet! My girlfriend and I met online. She found out I was deaf when I requested for the captions to be turned on during our first movie night. Soon after she started learning ASL for me, so she's still a beginner at the language and I do need to repeat myself sometimes. I don't mind though, like you said I wouldn't trade her for the world.


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## akihba (Jul 8, 2013)

Toured the Therapeutic Riding Center this morning. It was lovely! I learned that it is the second largest therapeutic riding program in the nation, which is pretty cool! I'll start volunteering soon, though I won't be able to do anything more than feed hay and muck stalls/paddocks. Still, it's a start! 

And I met this beautiful girl.


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## rmissildine (Feb 1, 2019)

She is beautiful.. I hope you aren't the one that has to keep her clean!!!!
I am so happy for you. You've got your foot in the door and I know with your attitude, you'll go far. Keep up the good work, and keep busting your rear, it'll pay off...
One day soon you'll be at the point of using your knowledge and disability to be in the position to help other riders with your disability to be able to experience the joy of riding and learning from someone who they can relate to.


I wish you all the luck in the world,


Roger


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## akihba (Jul 8, 2013)

rmissildine said:


> She is beautiful.. I hope you aren't the one that has to keep her clean!!!!
> I am so happy for you. You've got your foot in the door and I know with your attitude, you'll go far. Keep up the good work, and keep busting your rear, it'll pay off...
> One day soon you'll be at the point of using your knowledge and disability to be in the position to help other riders with your disability to be able to experience the joy of riding and learning from someone who they can relate to.
> 
> ...


Actually, I wish I could help with her grooming! Vanners require extra attention to care due to all the hair they have (mites in their feathers is a common issue), and I enjoy the one-on-one time with horses. But as a new volunteer I'm not allowed to do any direct work with the horses. Otherwise yes, I'm happy I've got my foot in the door. I'm looking forward to finding out where this will take me!

Thank you very much.


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## whisperbaby22 (Jan 25, 2013)

It is a foot in the door, and most likely the road to your volunteering or even occupation. Good luck, it does sound like fun. I have to muck because I keep my horse in my back yard, but I enjoy the work because a nice clean area is so rewarding.


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## akihba (Jul 8, 2013)

I'm back with some updates!

The past two days have been quite busy for me, but oh so worth it. 

Monday was my first volunteer shift at the therapeutic barn center. I spent my morning dumping out buckets and scrubbing them, and of course lovingly gazing at the horses while I waited for waters to fill up. Next time I'm there I'll probably do feedings. 



And then yesterday was a long day full of hard work, but it was a really rewarding experience for me. I met the owner of a farm nearby and was put to work right away helping out with feeding, playing musical paddocks with the horses (like musical chairs, shuffling them around depending on who needs to go in which area), scrubbing out tubs, and some good plain ole mucking out. The weather was lovely, it rained a bit but not too much. I got to love on some horses while I did tasks. I have a favorite already, but don't tell any of the other horses! And finally, at the end of the day I watched a yearling get gelded. It was fascinating for me to see!

While I was working I found myself constantly thinking on how things could be improved or be done a different way. Not that the farm isn't set up wonderfully- but if I had my own farm I would try to implement some more eco-friendly systems. For example, a lot of water gets thrown away. I wonder if it would be possible to build trenches and a drainage system around the stalls/paddocks where drained water would go into a grey water basin to be reused for landscaping. Also, drain holes in troughs! My back took a hitting yesterday when I had to bail water out of a trough with a bucket. I was so relieved when the next one I had to clean was an actual bathtub with a drain hole I could just unplug.


They also have a chicken coop and I took a peek inside. Again, forming ideas inside my head. It's one thing reading about plans and how other people have their coops/stables/etc set up, and another thing to see it in action. 

All in all yesterday was a great learning experience and I used muscles I hadn't exerted in years! Or ever, for that matter.  I'm looking forward to what else I will learn here. 

I do have pictures from the farm but I'm not sure that I should share them without permission from the horses' owners. The one below is of Honey, a QH mare at the therapeutic center.


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## whisperbaby22 (Jan 25, 2013)

The way I empty big troughs is to put a hose in, turn it on to get water in the entire hose and then detach from the water source and place the hose lower that the trough. It will empty in a few minutes. You have to be able to get the hose lower that the trough to work, but then you are able to get the water where you want it to go. You might be able to get it to work by dunking the entire hose to get it full of water, but that's harder. Easier just to get it full from the water source.


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## akihba (Jul 8, 2013)

whisperbaby22 said:


> The way I empty big troughs is to put a hose in, turn it on to get water in the entire hose and then detach from the water source and place the hose lower that the trough. It will empty in a few minutes. You have to be able to get the hose lower that the trough to work, but then you are able to get the water where you want it to go. You might be able to get it to work by dunking the entire hose to get it full of water, but that's harder. Easier just to get it full from the water source.


Yeah I know of that trick, but the hoses there are very long, heavy, and not very easy to handle/transport. Far better that I do it by hand. Good to keep in mind for the future though!


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## akihba (Jul 8, 2013)

skdjfhdgakghkdfghd. 
i had a GIANT wall of text written up and lost it because this thread is "old". 

Give me a moment to mourn and re-write everything. -_-


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

akihba said:


> skdjfhdgakghkdfghd.
> i had a GIANT wall of text written up and lost it because this thread is "old".
> 
> Give me a moment to mourn and re-write everything. -_-


Ahhhhhhhh I hate that. :icon_rolleyes: Good luck with the re-writing :mrgreen:


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## akihba (Jul 8, 2013)

I have chickens. (no, this is not the update I had written up previously but I wanted to share anyway.)

I still am slightly mortified of these mini dinosaurs but I have come to enjoy their little antics and individual personalities. 

I have three: Emmylou, Eden, and Kermit.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

My sister has hearing loss from multiple ear infections as a child, she eventually became an ASL translator for UC Berkeley. From her I know a tiny bit about the politics of the Deaf community. I think you are heading in the right direction, good luck!


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

Ooooo they're so cute <3 Chickens are adorable creatures. and such hilarious personalities


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## akihba (Jul 8, 2013)

Avna said:


> My sister has hearing loss from multiple ear infections as a child, she eventually became an ASL translator for UC Berkeley. From her I know a tiny bit about the politics of the Deaf community. I think you are heading in the right direction, good luck!


don't even get me started on the politics. hahaha. It's why I've distanced myself from the community.


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## akihba (Jul 8, 2013)

Ok, post attempt #2.

If y'all remember, I've been out to two barns and toured/did some work for a day at each barn. Never heard back from both the ladies I worked with, even though they expressed interest in having me help out. Oh well, things work out for a reason!

Volunteering at the hippotherapy place went great. My summer term ended, and I chose not to return for the winter months for several reasons.
1- I've moved farther away, and I hate commuting.
2- Things got busier in my job and personal life.
3- The work I was doing was no longer emotionally rewarding. There's only so many months I can spend scrubbing water buckets before I get sick of it! If the work was varied I might have not minded it, but it was the same every time I went. Scrub buckets. Scrub more buckets. Dump water. Scrub. Wait 5 minutes for the water to fill up. Dump. Scrub. Fill. Dump. Scrub. Fill. You get it!

I'm still on the roster as a substitute volunteer though, in case I have some extra time and they need extra hands. I'm grateful for the opportunity to gain volunteer experience there, as it turned out to be useful for what I am doing now...

The other week I was reflecting on my current job and things going on in my life. I was/am feeling pretty unhappy and frustrated about being "stuck" where I am, mainly in my current job. Since I'm not in a position to change anything on that front, my girlfriend encouraged me to seek out things that I would enjoy doing in the meantime. So I took to surfing the internet and came across a post asking for volunteers at a nearby ranch. The owners of this place hope to turn it into a therapeutic riding place for Veterans and people with PTSD as well as other families in need. Sound familiar? So, with my previous experience at the other therapy riding place, I thought this would be a great continuance of that type of work, but in a different environment that's much closer to home.

I went to the ranch yesterday and met the owners as well as another volunteer. Prior to arriving, I had expected the place to be somewhat functioning already, since it was founded as a non-profit back in 2015. Well, that was so not the case! They are still very much in their baby stages of getting started. I'll let you in on a little secret... I LOVE start-ups. I own my own business (although it's not horse-related at all), and I interned with a start-up when I was in college. I have a degree in Business Administration, so it's kind of my thing. I very much enjoy rolling up my sleeves and putting in some good hard work to get everyone coordinated and organized. The wealth of possibilities plus the ability to dump a storm of ideas on how to improve and grow is just so much fun!

Anyway, let's go back to the ranch for a bit. It is situated on 14 acres with 5 horses and I don't know how many sheep. The place is... messy. It needs a lot of work before it can become the haven that they want it to be. The owner of the place wanted to see me work with the horses, so I went out to catch and groom them. Again, as I said previously, my expectation of this place was that it was already established somewhat-- and that includes having well-behaved horses fit to work in a program involving sensitive folks who would be having first-time experiences with horses. Well... I was walked all over, disrespected, and even kicked at. The ranch hand also had me tie up all of the horses tightly with no slack in the rope so "they can't reach back and bite you". Definitely NOT behavior that you'd want to see in any horse, let alone horses in a therapeutic program.

Out of the 5 horses there, I caught and groomed 3 while the ranch hand did the other 2. The first mare I caught would not stand still for grooming and swung her butt towards me, so I put my hand above her flank and made kissing noises (no pressure yet). She did not respond, so I applied slight pressure with my palm to ask her to move her bum over. At that point, she pinned her ears back and kicked out at me, and still did not move. I did not ask again since I realized that she doesn't know what I was asking of her. That pattern was clear with the 3rd horse as well; completely unresponsive to pressure on the bum to move out of my space. Also, something I noticed with the 2nd horse I handled- she would flinch and jerk her head whenever I touched her shoulder and back area, no matter how gentle I was. The ranch hand said she was "skittish" about that area but she would stop after a while. Considering that she's an older horse and at the bottom of the herd's pecking order, I'm pretty sure that she has pain in the area, possibly from being kicked or bit. I'm hoping I can get them to agree to having a vet or horse chiropractor out to look at her before continuing to work her under saddle. All of the horses are also very motivated by treats and will crowd and push you around to get at it.

I told my girlfriend that I was not very impressed by the manners of the horses, but fortunately I didn't see anything that couldn't be worked with. I think that with time and patience they could make fine horses for the program. There was another person out that day, a volunteer who was also there for the first time and wanted to observe to get a feel for everything. I got to chat with her about the horses and really appreciated how we share the same viewpoint on horsemanship. We both would like to focus on having a connection with the horses and build a foundation based on trust and respect. All 5 horses desperately need to go back to the basics, and so that's where we both will likely start. Knowing that there is at least one other volunteer who shares my same values and philosophy on working with horses is a big relief. We agree that working with horses is so much more than just riding them. They are not something to "fix" or "control", but beings that we can have a partnership with. Although we don't claim to be trainers or experts, we can at least be on the same page when it comes to seeking out a trainer and how we can help the horses in the meantime. 

After grooming all of the horses and walking around the place, I went back home to reflect on the day. The place needs work. A lot of work. It's going to be hard and frustrating at times. But what they have here is the start of something that could be life-changing, and I decided that I want to be a part of it. Going back to my earlier frustration of feeling out of control about things that are going on in my life, I feel like this is a possible answer to that. I have been looking for something that combines my skills and passions into a meaningful contribution, and I think I could do great things here.

So... wish me luck! I have a giant list of questions already that I am going to discuss with the volunteer coordinator. I also set up a teamspace and invited all of the current volunteers to connect so that we have a central hub to touch base on with each other. Effectiveness, organization, and communication, here we come!

(Sorry for the wall of text with lack of horsey photos. Next time I will take pictures!)


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## whisperbaby22 (Jan 25, 2013)

Yea, good luck. This could work out for you, but keep your feet on the ground. This is going to be a lot of work for you.


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## akihba (Jul 8, 2013)

Things are... in motion. Though progress is bout as slow as a lesson horse at the end of the hour with his third kid of the day, it is going somewhere nevertheless. 

Not much I can say yet, so just have the one photo I managed to take today. When I go out there I focus on being present and aware of the horses, so taking photos is not a priority haha.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

> Though progress is bout as slow as a lesson horse at the end of the hour with his third kid of the day


This is so amazing, hilarious, and well-done, I hope you are thinking of being a writer, as well as your other dreams and hopes. What talent!


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## akihba (Jul 8, 2013)

knightrider said:


> This is so amazing, hilarious, and well-done, I hope you are thinking of being a writer, as well as your other dreams and hopes. What talent!


I have heard that countless times growing up. My problem is when I am "put on the spot", such as being given a specific topic to write about, all of the creativity in my writing goes down the toilet and clogs it. Then it become quite a backed up mess. 

Anyway, I played approved-by-my-manager-hooky during work today and made a quick trip out just to groom and hang out. 










This is Agave. She has the softest nuzzles ever. 

I didn't get a picture of Mariah, but she is the one I spent my time with. She is the hardest to catch out of all 5 horses according to the ranch hand, so my approach was slow and steady. I had a halter in my hand, fully visible (I don't like to do the bait and switch thing). Mariah saw and immediately headed away from me, so I followed her at an angle away, matching my steps with hers. When she showed a sign she was aware of me, I slowly walked towards her shoulder. As soon as she slightly turned her head away from me, I took several steps back. After a few minutes of matching steps and respecting her signs of uncertainty, she allowed me to halter her. 

In the pasture she is very quiet and doesn't engage with anyone, but outside of it she began to come alive. I had a slow and mutual approach to the grooming as well. If she seemed bothered by something, I'd step back and wait until she licked and chewed. 

After we finished grooming, I untied her and stepped backwards with the lead rope in my hand. She didn't seem to notice that she was no longer tied up, or that I was offering her the choice to decide what she wanted to do next. I gave a little pull on the rope to "wake her up", and she went "oh? I can move? Let me go here... how about that grass?". I let her eat for a few minutes before I put her back in the pasture since at this point I had to go back to work. Though immediately when I put her back in, she seemed much more present, and was fiddling around my hands and sweater with her lips. 

I'm not sure if she's bored or shutdown or what, but I think she has a lot to express. I hope I can pull little and little of that out of her.


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## whisperbaby22 (Jan 25, 2013)

I have the same problem with writing. Sometimes I'll have whole paragraphs in my mind, but when I sit down to write that letter it just all flies away. One reason I keep with this forum, it helps let to words flow.


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## akihba (Jul 8, 2013)

whisperbaby22 said:


> I have the same problem with writing. Sometimes I'll have whole paragraphs in my mind, but when I sit down to write that letter it just all flies away. One reason I keep with this forum, it helps let to words flow.


Right! Writing here doesn't feel like a chore.


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