# Horse is petrified! Not sure what do to???



## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I would ask the BO if that thing serves a purpose, like keeping the horses from free access to hay. Then I would tell them what happened and your worries about the water and the almost blind horse getting hurt. 
I'd stay super nice, but would demand a solution


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

deserthorsewoman said:


> I would ask the BO if that thing serves a purpose, like keeping the horses from free access to hay. Then I would tell them what happened and your worries about the water and the almost blind horse getting hurt.
> I'd stay super nice, but would demand a solution


Thanks for the reply Desert thats great advice! I think its just there to be stored honestly cause its done nothing but sit down at their sons house all summer. lol


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## Northernstar (Jul 23, 2011)

I agree with Deserthorsewoman, and what causes tremendous concern as well is the inability for your horse to access water. That is a biggy. _Definately _approach your BO right away with the situation, and hopefully she'll just move 'that scary thing' and all will be well! Good luck


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Northernstar said:


> I agree with Deserthorsewoman, and what causes tremendous concern as well is the inability for your horse to access water. That is a biggy. _Definately _approach your BO right away with the situation, and hopefully she'll just move 'that scary thing' and all will be well! Good luck


Thanks NorthernStar I agree with Desert too. Im defiantly going to ask the BO about it and see if something can be done. And I'm not saying his not drinking but i am worried that hes so scared of that side of the field that he's not gonna go to the water ya know.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

shaggy said:


> Thanks for the reply Desert thats great advice! I think its just there to be stored honestly cause its done nothing but sit down at their sons house all summer. lol


You're welcome
I have plenty experience with people storing stuff where it shouldn't be with horses around.......try passing between two huge tractors, 4 feet of space, with three horses in hand......;-)


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

deserthorsewoman said:


> You're welcome
> I have plenty experience with people storing stuff where it shouldn't be with horses around.......try passing between two huge tractors, 4 feet of space, with three horses in hand......;-)


wow that sounds scary! I get nervous just walking my two up from the field together! I couldnt imagine having to get them through two huge tractors!


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## Shropshirerosie (Jan 24, 2012)

The two answers given so far surprised me - my response is quite different. I would say that I like my horses to be used to all different kinds of machinery and to be able to ride past them without them spooking - so I'd honestly treat this as a training opportunity to teach the horse not to be afraid of this particular monster. 

However - I don't think I can ever remember a scenario where a horse was so scared of a piece of stationary machinery that the above wasn't possible :? I can imagine getting the response you describe if the machine was full of squealing pigs..... but not just a standing 'thing'.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Who knows who or what was hiding behind it or it has moving parts. 
Machinery doesn't belong where horses are eating, IMO. For desensitizing it can sit somewhere out of the way. Works just the same.


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## LesandLily (Oct 8, 2012)

I guess I may have a little different take on it...is the thing really dangerous and truly keeping the horses from feeding and watering OR is it just something that is making them nervous and they are wary of it. If the latter is the case then it may be a great opportunity to do some desensitizing to scary objects and help him to learn what to do when something cares him...particularly when he is with you. 

I think sometimes our first reaction is to take away things that make them nervous when instead (as long it is safe to do so) we should use that as an opportunity to train on them and get them over their fear. With my daughter's horse we had a tendencies to avoid things that scared him (which seemed to be everything) when once we started exposing him to more things and teaching him how to handle his fear, he got much better. Horses will always be wary of things but if we can teach them to look to us as to how they should react, we make it safer for both us and them.

Saying that, if whatever they are storing is truly dangerous to the horses or is really blocking the feed / water bins then it does need to be moved for safety reasons.

Cheers!
Les


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

shaggy said:


> wow that sounds scary! I get nervous just walking my two up from the field together! I couldnt imagine having to get them through two huge tractors!


We managed
But I got scared too. Remember one evening when bringing my trio in, a horse was free in the arena, a dog chasing it, it jumped out, didn't quite make it and landed on it's back right in front of us. 50' further towards the barn, a group of kids on bikes, screaming and waving plastic bags. A couple of steps before the barndoor the fallen horse came running. I got all three in their stalls, halters off, doors closed, then I had to sit down, I was shaking so bad. Thank heavens my trio were Arabs, prancing and snorting, but never got out of hand or lost their mind.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Shropshirerosie said:


> The two answers given so far surprised me - my response is quite different. I would say that I like my horses to be used to all different kinds of machinery and to be able to ride past them without them spooking - so I'd honestly treat this as a training opportunity to teach the horse not to be afraid of this particular monster.
> 
> However - I don't think I can ever remember a scenario where a horse was so scared of a piece of stationary machinery that the above wasn't possible :? I can imagine getting the response you describe if the machine was full of squealing pigs..... but not just a standing 'thing'.


I understand what your saying but i dont think its the thing actually sitting there that makes scary but it be being driven right through the field to get it where it is and no training method is worth getting killed over.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Who knows who or what was hiding behind it or it has moving parts.
> Machinery doesn't belong where horses are eating, IMO. For desensitizing it can sit somewhere out of the way. Works just the same.


Agreed and no telling what kinda noise that thing made being driven through the field.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

LesandLily said:


> I guess I may have a little different take on it...is the thing really dangerous and truly keeping the horses from feeding and watering OR is it just something that is making them nervous and they are wary of it. If the latter is the case then it may be a great opportunity to do some desensitizing to scary objects and help him to learn what to do when something cares him...particularly when he is with you.
> 
> I think sometimes our first reaction is to take away things that make them nervous when instead (as long it is safe to do so) we should use that as an opportunity to train on them and get them over their fear. With my daughter's horse we had a tendencies to avoid things that scared him (which seemed to be everything) when once we started exposing him to more things and teaching him how to handle his fear, he got much better. Horses will always be wary of things but if we can teach them to look to us as to how they should react, we make it safer for both us and them.
> 
> ...


It is blocking the hay. Its one of those esganvating (sp?) things with a digging claw on the end. Shaggy is not a horse that gets scared of stuff like this. so if this thing scared him enough he was physically shaking then he is was petrified of it. So teaching to him simply not be scared of it is something I'm not capable of doing with out a professional.


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## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

Shropshirerosie said:


> The two answers given so far surprised me - my response is quite different. I would say that I like my horses to be used to all different kinds of machinery and to be able to ride past them without them spooking - so I'd honestly treat this as a training opportunity to teach the horse not to be afraid of this particular monster.
> 
> However - I don't think I can ever remember a scenario where a horse was so scared of a piece of stationary machinery that the above wasn't possible :? I can imagine getting the response you describe if the machine was full of squealing pigs..... but not just a standing 'thing'.


I tend to agree......horses should have as much expossure to all kind of things. Any time something is moved or different in their pasture they are leary of. But you want the horse not to be spooked by a tractor parked somewhere too. I also think it's a good time to teach the horse.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Thunderspark said:


> I tend to agree......horses should have as much expossure to all kind of things. Any time something is moved or different in their pasture they are leary of. But you want the horse not to be spooked by a tractor parked somewhere too. I also think it's a good time to teach the horse.


My horse isn't afraid a tractor theres on one the other side of the barn. The horse hang out under the overhang right beside it.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

shaggy said:


> It is blocking the hay. Its one of those esganvating (sp?) things with a digging claw on the end.


It's just a front end loader then? 

If so, leave it where it is - they will move around it when they are hungry or thirsty enough.


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## Phly (Nov 14, 2012)

We tied to tractors wheels before use what ya got. I see a perfect desensitizing situation ya got with this
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

AlexS said:


> It's just a front end loader then?
> 
> If so, leave it where it is - they will move around it when they are hungry or thirsty enough.


Honestly Idk what it is. I just know its one of those digger things you see in road construction all the time. They cant get around its huge and taking up the whole area next to the hay.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Phly said:


> We tied to tractors wheels before use what ya got. I see a perfect desensitizing situation ya got with this
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Without a professional to help i see perfect situation to get killed. and Dont say go find one cause i've looked before none in my area.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I would say that if the tractor is in the pasture it needs to be moved. I have seen horses left out with pick up trucks in the pasture with horrible results. The horse ran towards the barn and hit the tail gate, the horse opened its knee joint and had to be euthanized. Horses pastured with machinery is just a bad combination. Look at the number of sharp edges on the machines, great for cutting oneself open. Now look at the soft rubber coverings on levers that can be eaten and cause colic. 

I would also say that if this tractor has a front end loader and this is a new behavior that maybe there is a smell associated with the tractor. Ie. did the son use the bucket to carry a dead animal for burial? Then its not the machine but the smell that is worrying your horse. I would say time and desensitization, but get the tractor out of the pasture.


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## LesandLily (Oct 8, 2012)

shaggy said:


> Without a professional to help i see perfect situation to get killed. and Dont say go find one cause i've looked before none in my area.


It sounds like it needs to be moved but in the meantime you may want to help your horse and you. Try using approach and retreat to get him over it. There has to be a distance where he isn't scared of it, go just inside that distance so he gets just a little nervous and start moving his feet. Doesn't have to be hard or fast, just keep him moving. Once he shows some sign of relaxing...walk him away from it. Do that several times till that distance has no effect on him, then move closer and repeat. It may take awhile but you can them over nearly anything by being patient and using approach and retreat. 

My daughters horse had an unrealistic fear of plastic bags and tarps. We got him over his tarp issue the same way...and he did the same thing, ran away, shook all over etc. Apparently he heard the rumor going around the pasture...tarps eat horses! :lol: have fun and be careful.

Cheers!
Les


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

We can think of horror stories to relate but there are thousands of horses pastured with equipment, derelict vehicles with none getting hurt. It may not be the machine itself but when someone emerged from it and walked away. Horses don't see things with the acuity we do. Feed your horse just inside the area that has the machine as far away as possible. Put the hay on the ground and leave him alone. It's his issue to deal with. Do this when he's a little hungry.


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## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

shaggy, are you getting nervous when you are leading the horse near there because the horse can sense that and will get worked up.
My hubby works for a construction company, he has brought all kinds of backhoes, front end loaders, etc. here and my horses don't even bother about it.....to me it sounds like your horse needs some desensitizing and learn to trust you and you need some confidence also.
During the summer I let all the horses out in my yard, it has helped with desensitizing them to all kind of things and then when we do go out riding they don't get so worked up about something unusual to them.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

shaggy said:


> Honestly Idk what it is. I just know its one of those digger things you see in road construction all the time. They cant get around its huge and taking up the whole area next to the hay.


Maybe I am missing something that's more complicated but I don't really see what the big deal is. 

Go talk to your BO and say 'hey, my horses can't get to their hay/water, could you please move the equipment so they can access that? Thank you, have a nice evening'.


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## Tarpan (May 6, 2012)

I had a similar situation with an evil, horse eating station wagon parked in an unusual place. It took an hour or so of walking towards it and away from it and then back and forth in front of it and finally in circles around it before my boy stopped acting like a fool.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

LesandLily said:


> It sounds like it needs to be moved but in the meantime you may want to help your horse and you. Try using approach and retreat to get him over it. There has to be a distance where he isn't scared of it, go just inside that distance so he gets just a little nervous and start moving his feet. Doesn't have to be hard or fast, just keep him moving. Once he shows some sign of relaxing...walk him away from it. Do that several times till that distance has no effect on him, then move closer and repeat. It may take awhile but you can them over nearly anything by being patient and using approach and retreat.
> 
> My daughters horse had an unrealistic fear of plastic bags and tarps. We got him over his tarp issue the same way...and he did the same thing, ran away, shook all over etc. Apparently he heard the rumor going around the pasture...tarps eat horses! :lol: have fun and be careful.
> 
> ...


I like this idea I'm on my way to barn now I think I'm gonna try it! Thanks so much!


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Thunderspark said:


> shaggy, are you getting nervous when you are leading the horse near there because the horse can sense that and will get worked up.
> My hubby works for a construction company, he has brought all kinds of backhoes, front end loaders, etc. here and my horses don't even bother about it.....to me it sounds like your horse needs some desensitizing and learn to trust you and you need some confidence also.
> During the summer I let all the horses out in my yard, it has helped with desensitizing them to all kind of things and then when we do go out riding they don't get so worked up about something unusual to them.


I didn't think I was but I admit I was startled when I saw that big thing there in there. Lol


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

rookie said:


> I would say that if the tractor is in the pasture it needs to be moved. I have seen horses left out with pick up trucks in the pasture with horrible results. The horse ran towards the barn and hit the tail gate, the horse opened its knee joint and had to be euthanized. Horses pastured with machinery is just a bad combination. Look at the number of sharp edges on the machines, great for cutting oneself open. Now look at the soft rubber coverings on levers that can be eaten and cause colic.
> 
> I would also say that if this tractor has a front end loader and this is a new behavior that maybe there is a smell associated with the tractor. Ie. did the son use the bucket to carry a dead animal for burial? Then its not the machine but the smell that is worrying your horse. I would say time and desensitization, but get the tractor out of the pasture.


It's not in the middle of field it's stored in the big shed behind the stalls next to where the hay is stored.


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## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

well sometimes all of us can be nervous and not even realize it LOL Good luck and hopefully you can get that thing moved or work with it....


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

It sounds like an excavator.....it looks like a big swan!! Has a big boom arm and a bucket, goes up and down, side to side, and has a big scary mouth with teeth and can rip a huge chunk out of the ground with one pass!!! And to boot its noisy!!!

The best thing you can do with your horse is IGNORE the machine be bold and approach.....if you feed his 'irrational' fear.....then it will become just that.

Until he gets over it.....he might get hungry enough to scoot by it and eat.....


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I also think it is an 'excavator' or what is known as a 'track-hoe' around here. One was just in one of our fields to dig out a nearly dry pond. 3 of our 5 ponds went dry with the drought this past summer, so we took advantage of it and had one made about 3 times bigger with a track-hoe. [If we had had the money, we would have had the others enlarged also.]

We just don't baby our horses for anything like that. We place hay bales in their fields with a 100HP farm tractor with a front end loader. It drives right in with the horses -- even the just weaned babies. [They follow it if they are out of hay.]

Horses hurt themselves from lack of exposure and lack of being able to learn how to handle things, not from having things around them. Just like us running weanlings and yearlings on really rough, rocky, steep ground so they develop good feet and legs and develop good sure-footedness. They learn how to handle bad footing, rough ground, heavy equipment, farm equipment, big trucks, etc. Consequently, traffic (like big semis), and equipment like road graders. back-hoes and bulldozers don't faze them. It just does not pay to baby them.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Well Les' idea worked for about 2 minutes. So I said just the hell with it before I get hurt. Although he did seem less jumpy once we were back over at the the ring. He was good until I put the saddle on him and started around the ring. He saw the big scary thing at out of the corner of hes eye and that was it he was horrible. I had to get down to fix the girth and before i could react he jerked from me and ran threw the field. so i had my first mini heart attack that he was gonna get caught in the reins and break a leg. I finally give catch him and get him back to barn and he breaks away again, takes off again, and i have second mini heart attack. Thankfully neither time he broke away the reins didnt come over his head. I have never seen this horse act like this. I know it has to with that stupid machine because last week before it there he was fine. Worst part is my parents done seem to care and my dad saw everything that happened today.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Muppetgirl said:


> It sounds like an excavator.....it looks like a big swan!! Has a big boom arm and a bucket, goes up and down, side to side, and has a big scary mouth with teeth and can rip a huge chunk out of the ground with one pass!!! And to boot its noisy!!!
> 
> The best thing you can do with your horse is IGNORE the machine be bold and approach.....if you feed his 'irrational' fear.....then it will become just that.
> 
> Until he gets over it.....he might get hungry enough to scoot by it and eat.....


It is a excavator!!! thank you so much finding the word for me!


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## blkgryphon (Jan 7, 2008)

*No machinery around horses!*

I agree that it would be good to train your horse not to be afraid of this object or any other, but I STRONGLY believe that there should not be any pieces of equipment or machinery placed where horses have access to it. I write about horses for a living, and have written up a number of case studies, one of which involved a filly who was severely injured by getting her leg stuck in a piece of derelict farm machinery left in her field. Total degloving of the leg -- then the story went from bad to worse when her should-be-drawn-and-quarterd owner tried to "put her down". This story had a happy ending, but I still cringe every time I see any kind of machinery left where horses can get to it.

If anyone would like to read the story about the mare I mentioned, you can find it here:

The Equinist: Articles and Commentary by Susan Kauffmann: CASE STUDY: Compassion and Courage save a Severely Abused Mare

But be forewarned: it is very disturbing and not for the faint of heart.

I hope you get the problem in your horse's field sorted quickly!

Susan K


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

blkgryphon said:


> I agree that it would be good to train your horse not to be afraid of this object or any other, but I STRONGLY believe that there should not be any pieces of equipment or machinery placed where horses have access to it. I write about horses for a living, and have written up a number of case studies, one of which involved a filly who was severely injured by getting her leg stuck in a piece of derelict farm machinery left in her field. Total degloving of the leg -- then the story went from bad to worse when her should-be-drawn-and-quarterd owner tried to "put her down". This story had a happy ending, but I still cringe every time I see any kind of machinery left where horses can get to it.
> 
> If anyone would like to read the story about the mare I mentioned, you can find it here:
> 
> ...


Wow that was amazing! Im so glad that little mare was given a second chance! I never really thought about all the damage Machinery could cause to horses. Theres stuff everywhere at this farm that these horses can get directly to. After reading that it makes me really nervous. I do want to say tho that was an amazingly written article!


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## blkgryphon (Jan 7, 2008)

shaggy said:


> Wow that was amazing! Im so glad that little mare was given a second chance! I never really thought about all the damage Machinery could cause to horses. Theres stuff everywhere at this farm that these horses can get directly to. After reading that it makes me really nervous. I do want to say tho that was an amazingly written article!


Thank you, Shaggy, but little credit to me and very much credit to Dr. Jewell, and to Kessie herself. I know the lady who owns Kessie now, and that mare has THE LIFE! She is queen of all she surveys, has a nice, big field (very safe!) with other horses to boss around. She is a happy girl -- what a spirit! 

These case studies have really convinced me of the incredible healing power horses have. I write them and I'M blown away!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I think your horse will get over this fear, as will the others. But, having machinery out in a field, near the food and water, is dangerous. Machinery always seems to have sharp edges, and once they start treating it with familiarity and contempt, they could easily bang into it during a horse squabble. If it were on the other side of a fence, but still near enough to scare them for a bit, then I'd say, just let them deal with it and they'll stop fearing it in time.

We had these big white signs put up in the riding trails a few years ago to give all kinds of "nature" info to walkers. Well,, the horses would come trotting around a corner, see on of those and do a 180 so fast you'd be dirt bound. I thought they had just ruined my riding. But, the hroses have come to accept them and no longer react at all. They do adjust.

However, if your horse is reactive like this to things that scare him, I can see this being a problem that will recurr when other scary things present themselves, and they will. 

If you could work with making your own handling of him more confident, it might help him feel more confident. 
the thing is that you have to be more important, more interesting than the scary thing. Sometimes that means you have to actually get really big in order to get the horse's attention. you have to require him to move, such as around you in a lunging manner. That moving his feet will help to bring his focus back on you, and THEN you calm him a bit. But trying to sooth him or pet him when he is focussed outward will likely have little effect.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

To add to the machinery issue there is a fire risk. We had the neighbors (dairy farmer and mechanic) tractor up at our house for a few weeks a number of years ago. It was park outside and away from the hay (thank god). The neighbor did his work and headed home. That night the tractor caught fire. We did not even know it was the police who happened to drive by and called. Thats really rare; however, its warned me away from putting our hay near our tractor. 

I am wondering shaggy if you are cueing him? Are you starting to tense around the machine? Have you tried lunging him in the riding area with circles gradually getting closer to the machine? Or if you feed grain feed him near the machine.


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## Bluebird (Jul 20, 2011)

shaggy said:


> Its been forever and day since i posted something on here. I really need some advice im not sure how to handle this situation cause I've never been in this kinda of situation before. I got the to the barn today and got Shaggy as usual. Took him up to the barn to get burrs out and ride him. First he gets fidgety moving all around and looking behind him like something is going eat him. So I figured he'd been back in the hay eating something spooked him. I decided to walk him back there show him nothing is going eat him. He's one of those horses you show him its not gonna eat him and he's ok after that. Anyways as I'm walking he starts flipping out. Thats when I notice this huge piece of machinery as been parked where the hay is. which is also blocking where the horses had free choice hay. At this point Shaggy is completely flipping out and he almost trampled me getting him turned around to go back. When I finally got him back to the ring He is physically shaking he's so worked up and scared. For once I was actually glad for those stupid burrs cause if I hadn't had to get them out I would have gotten right on him and who knows what would have happened. Now idk what to do. Theres no way I can ride him when all he's thinking "is up there is where the scary thing is". Do I say something to the barn owners? I know its their barn they can do whatever they want but they could have told me they put that stupid thing up there. Im really worried that because the water trough is on that side of the field that he's not drinking. Lord only knows what will happen is I try to bring half blind Blaze up there. This whole thing as thrown me for a loop cause Shaggy is hardly scared of anything.


First of all, don't worry! Your horse is doing just what any other horse would do when it meets something new and scary for the first time. I had a similar situation with my 'baby' boy (18 months). His stable is right next door to my older boy who is virtually bombproof. The stables face onto a working farmyard where all types of heavy machinery go past him on a daily basis. At first the 'baby' did little dances in his stable until he noticed that his buddy next door just chomped on hay. He calmed down and was fine. Never bats an eyelid. However, one day I was taking him out of his stable to turn him out into the grazing pasture and one of the workers had parked a combined harvester right next to the field. This machine had been travelling past the stable for a week and he never batted an eyelid. Today was different because the Combine Harvester had turned overnight into a horse eating dragon monster thing with fangs. My boy totally flipped and started shaking, sweating and I had to return him and his buddy to the stable. He calmed down. Harvester was moved away and I thought no more about it. Took baby out to the field again with his buddy and even though the scary monster horse eating dragon had gone, he still flipped because of the association. How I helped him overcome this was with some help. One of the other horse owners brought her horse along (bomb proof) and while someone held my baby, she and I walked my older horse and one of the mareas up to the gate and back to 'baby' again. These horses were totally calm. We did this a few times then did it with 'baby' but keeping up with the other horses. He calmed right down and I now have no problems turning him out. It did take us a lot of patience and perseverance though. You could give it a try but I would also do what deserthorsewoman suggests and have a chat to the BO. The majority of people don't think if they don't have horses themselves. Most times you will get a positive response but remain polite and very grateful! If owner won't move scary horse eating machine, then you will have to desensitise your horse to it. Baby steps pays off. Above all, don't blame the horse. He/She is just being a horse and they are flight animals no matter how well trained they are. Good luck and let us know how you get on.


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## LesandLily (Oct 8, 2012)

shaggy said:


> Well Les' idea worked for about 2 minutes. So I said just the hell with it before I get hurt. Although he did seem less jumpy once we were back over at the the ring. He was good until I put the saddle on him and started around the ring. He saw the big scary thing at out of the corner of hes eye and that was it he was horrible. I had to get down to fix the girth and before i could react he jerked from me and ran threw the field. so i had my first mini heart attack that he was gonna get caught in the reins and break a leg. I finally give catch him and get him back to barn and he breaks away again, takes off again, and i have second mini heart attack. Thankfully neither time he broke away the reins didnt come over his head. I have never seen this horse act like this. I know it has to with that stupid machine because last week before it there he was fine. Worst part is my parents done seem to care and my dad saw everything that happened today.


If he is that scared of something it is not going to change in a couple of minutes. It could takes days of approach and retreat and being patient with him...especially as you are learning the process too. It is a very important process for every horse owner to know as there are scary horse eating monsters EVERYWHERE and you need to teach your horse to look to you for guidance and leadership when it gets scared, not just freak and have it be "every man for himself...run"! If you move this machine (which sounds like it may need to be done) I guarantee at some point, he will find something else that will scare him this bad and moving that one may not be an option. 

When we got JJ over tarps / bags it took nearly a month of approach and retreat and being patient with him before he really got good with them...and he still needs a refresher every once in awhile. This may take several sessions of you on the ground (the safest place to be) in the yard, in the arena approaching from several different angles etc. all depending on how strong his fear is of it...which sounds pretty high. The BIG thing is stay safe and not get worried or upset. It is crazy how much they feed off of us and our emotions. If you tense and 'feel" scared, he thinks that is how he needs to react too. Again be careful but embrace this opportunity to learn something with your horse and expand his level of confidence and your own as well. Don't get in a hurry and take baby steps and you will get him over it. :thumbsup: 

Cheers!
Les


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

LesandLily said:


> If he is that scared of something it is not going to change in a couple of minutes. It could takes days of approach and retreat and being patient with him...especially as you are learning the process too. It is a very important process for every horse owner to know as there are scary horse eating monsters EVERYWHERE and you need to teach your horse to look to you for guidance and leadership when it gets scared, not just freak and have it be "every man for himself...run"! If you move this machine (which sounds like it may need to be done) I guarantee at some point, he will find something else that will scare him this bad and moving that one may not be an option.
> 
> When we got JJ over tarps / bags it took nearly a month of approach and retreat and being patient with him before he really got good with them...and he still needs a refresher every once in awhile. This may take several sessions of you on the ground (the safest place to be) in the yard, in the arena approaching from several different angles etc. all depending on how strong his fear is of it...which sounds pretty high. The BIG thing is stay safe and not get worried or upset. It is crazy how much they feed off of us and our emotions. If you tense and 'feel" scared, he thinks that is how he needs to react too. Again be careful but embrace this opportunity to learn something with your horse and expand his level of confidence and your own as well. Don't get in a hurry and take baby steps and you will get him over it. :thumbsup:
> 
> ...


Thanks so for all your great advice. I didnt expect it to magical work right away i know its gonna take time. I know my own nerves are not helping. I think I'm actually more nervous of him trampling me than that stupid machine ya know. It would nice to have the help of someone who knows what they are doing, but its also important i learn to handle these situations on my own as well.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

blkgryphon said:


> Thank you, Shaggy, but little credit to me and very much credit to Dr. Jewell, and to Kessie herself. I know the lady who owns Kessie now, and that mare has THE LIFE! She is queen of all she surveys, has a nice, big field (very safe!) with other horses to boss around. She is a happy girl -- what a spirit!
> 
> These case studies have really convinced me of the incredible healing power horses have. I write them and I'M blown away!


Your welcome. Im a writer as well so i couldn't help be comment on how nicely written the article was=) and Thats great im so happy for Kessie (I love that name!) that she has a good life now. It sounds like to me Dr.Jewell is an amazing vet! There NEEDS to be more vets like her!


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Bluebird said:


> First of all, don't worry! Your horse is doing just what any other horse would do when it meets something new and scary for the first time. I had a similar situation with my 'baby' boy (18 months). His stable is right next door to my older boy who is virtually bombproof. The stables face onto a working farmyard where all types of heavy machinery go past him on a daily basis. At first the 'baby' did little dances in his stable until he noticed that his buddy next door just chomped on hay. He calmed down and was fine. Never bats an eyelid. However, one day I was taking him out of his stable to turn him out into the grazing pasture and one of the workers had parked a combined harvester right next to the field. This machine had been travelling past the stable for a week and he never batted an eyelid. Today was different because the Combine Harvester had turned overnight into a horse eating dragon monster thing with fangs. My boy totally flipped and started shaking, sweating and I had to return him and his buddy to the stable. He calmed down. Harvester was moved away and I thought no more about it. Took baby out to the field again with his buddy and even though the scary monster horse eating dragon had gone, he still flipped because of the association. How I helped him overcome this was with some help. One of the other horse owners brought her horse along (bomb proof) and while someone held my baby, she and I walked my older horse and one of the mareas up to the gate and back to 'baby' again. These horses were totally calm. We did this a few times then did it with 'baby' but keeping up with the other horses. He calmed right down and I now have no problems turning him out. It did take us a lot of patience and perseverance though. You could give it a try but I would also do what deserthorsewoman suggests and have a chat to the BO. The majority of people don't think if they don't have horses themselves. Most times you will get a positive response but remain polite and very grateful! If owner won't move scary horse eating machine, then you will have to desensitise your horse to it. Baby steps pays off. Above all, don't blame the horse. He/She is just being a horse and they are flight animals no matter how well trained they are. Good luck and let us know how you get on.


Thanks so much for the advice and i'll defiantly keep everyone updated as we work on the approach and retreat process.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

*Heres the scary horse eating monster lol*

Heres what the big scary machine (excavator) looks like and you can see where the hay is behind it.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

That looks like a pretty new one. They are worth well over $100,000.00. I would probably park mine in my barn or equipment shed, too. 

If you don't want to get your horse used to it, I would guess you need to move the hay to a place the horse likes better. Same with water.


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## blkgryphon (Jan 7, 2008)

*Then again, you can have the opposite problem...*

Well, having a horse who is absolutely fearless and LOVES machines, the bigger the better, can have its drawbacks, too. Our paint, Obie, was afraid of nothing and was thoroughly convinced that anything new HAD to be a toy and MUST be for him! Dump trucks, backhoes, impact hammers, chainsaws -- he wanted them all! This is also a horse who used to tree bears in his pasture up in British Columbia, then stand there at the bottom and "beg" them to come down so he could feel the fuzz (he liked to nuggy furry animals with his nose).

The photo here shows what happened one day when we had a backhoe come into the horses' paddock to do some work...I had to pull Obie out of there and tie him up because he kept trying to stick his head in the bucket, play with the gears, etc. I had to protect the backhoe from HIM! He would have LOVED that big thing you've got out there!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I feel for you
I had some if that kind too....they were convinced a combine was edible....just because it was green....;-)


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Cherie said:


> That looks like a pretty new one. They are worth well over $100,000.00. I would probably park mine in my barn or equipment shed, too.
> 
> If you don't want to get your horse used to it, I would guess you need to move the hay to a place the horse likes better. Same with water.


Its not new its been on this property for at least 2 years maybe 3 and its been sitting out in the front yard of the house the son lives in now which was still under construction when i first started lessons with his ex wife. Its not that i dont want him to get used to it i do but not at the expense of me, him, or both of us getting hurt.


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## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

This is my mare Spice with me and my grandson with a backhoe that was in our yard for a couple weeks working...


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

blkgryphon said:


> Well, having a horse who is absolutely fearless and LOVES machines, the bigger the better, can have its drawbacks, too. Our paint, Obie, was afraid of nothing and was thoroughly convinced that anything new HAD to be a toy and MUST be for him! Dump trucks, backhoes, impact hammers, chainsaws -- he wanted them all! This is also a horse who used to tree bears in his pasture up in British Columbia, then stand there at the bottom and "beg" them to come down so he could feel the fuzz (he liked to nuggy furry animals with his nose).
> 
> The photo here shows what happened one day when we had a backhoe come into the horses' paddock to do some work...I had to pull Obie out of there and tie him up because he kept trying to stick his head in the bucket, play with the gears, etc. I had to protect the backhoe from HIM! He would have LOVED that big thing you've got out there!


Thats so funny I wish i could get shaggy that comfortable with this machine! Its funny all the other machines on property dont bother him I can ride him right them. but excavator is a horse eating monster. lol


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

*Update kind of...*

Well i thought i give you guys a little update.There is a little good news they are using the machine to clean the area up around the barn but the update is things are getting worse. With the horrible weather here getting out to the barn hasnt been easy. So the approach and retreat thing hasnt happened but once. I went out there the day before christmas eve cause i was gonna dress shaggy up and take pics. He was so horrible I couldnt do hardly anything. He kept jumping around and wouldn't go anywhere near the side of the ring where they been cleaning (theres too hugh piles of junk there now), he wouldnt let me out of his sight! I tied him up 3 different times further way each time from where i originally tie when i groom him. Flipped out every time i stepped away! The 2nd time he got loose and tried to follow me into the tack room! Im at a lose at what to do anymore. Im starting to become scared of my own horse! I cant understand why Shaggy being like this! I've owned this horse for 3 yrs and never been the spooky kind. Hell nothing used to bother him. If he did spook he would just jump in place now he jumps at every little sound like something is going to eat him. I dont know what to do anymore! and now i've got the added pressure of the son's girlfriends daughter wanting me to let her 5 yr old daughter ride Shaggy. How can I even think about letting a little girl ride him when I'm scared to ride him myself. At least I managed to keep myself calm when I'm around him. oh and should i even mention how depressed the burrs make me lol God I wonder why I even own horses anymore!


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I don't think it's normal that a horse would not be used to it by now. 

I rode my horse in England on main roads with semi's going past with air brakes. I'd feel the air, they were that close. My horse didn't like it, but coped because I did. I didn't like it much either. 

I rode her in a parade through the center of Manchester, a major city equivalent to Philadelphia. She didn't like it, but she coped. 

I believe that as your horse is not used to it yet, the horse is either taking nervous cues from you, or there is something else going on.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

at this point in time, I would explain the horse is being naughty and that yes they can come pet him , riding wont be an option.
Machines can be scary, perhaps start with a riding mower and a bucket of grain or treats, carrots apples , whatever you give as treats. when he stands next to the scary monster he gets a treat. let him see the mower get a treat, start it rev it up , get a treat and a rub. Sometimes letting them follow the scary thing is better, as it is moving away from the horse and is less of a threat than something coming toward the horse.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

reread your post. Can you move to another barn? if your horse is not getting hay and water, you are going to have a sick horse.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

AlexS said:


> I don't think it's normal that a horse would not be used to it by now.
> 
> I rode my horse in England on main roads with semi's going past with air brakes. I'd feel the air, they were that close. My horse didn't like it, but coped because I did. I didn't like it much either.
> 
> ...


Exactly its not normal that he's not used to it by now because the thing has been there for weeks and the horses can freely walk around where it is.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

stevenson said:


> at this point in time, I would explain the horse is being naughty and that yes they can come pet him , riding wont be an option.
> Machines can be scary, perhaps start with a riding mower and a bucket of grain or treats, carrots apples , whatever you give as treats. when he stands next to the scary monster he gets a treat. let him see the mower get a treat, start it rev it up , get a treat and a rub. Sometimes letting them follow the scary thing is better, as it is moving away from the horse and is less of a threat than something coming toward the horse.


Yeah right now all they do is come down and pet the horses. Im not really thrilled that they bring treats down and feed my horses when him not there but what can ya do. Mowers and stuff have never bothered him. Most ppl wouldnt see having a trainer that let her kids run around in a gator while her daughter and i were riding a blessing but i do because noises like the gator engine dont bother him now. Note that said trainer and kids are not there anymore. lol


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

stevenson said:


> reread your post. Can you move to another barn? if your horse is not getting hay and water, you are going to have a sick horse.


MOving isnt an opition right now. Thankfully I saw him drink the last time i was out there so he's drinking and as for hay my mom and i are actually gonna get some square bails soon.


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## Icrazyaboutu (Jul 17, 2009)

I only skimmed this but I think I read all of your replies... Sounds like a lot of excuses OP. Sorry, I sound mean but its true. I give excuses all the time too, so I'm not trying to be rude! 
Honestly, you just need to be brave, grab your horse, and make him be calm near the big scary horse eating monster. He won't be amazing at first but the more and more you do it, the better he will become. And I don't know anything about you or your horse but if you're scared he's gonna trampole you, get a friend to help you. I'm a small 5'6 and I have a 18.2hh draft. I know what its like to be overpowered. But guess what, if you act like you're stronger and MAKE the horse listen to you, they do! It's amazing.
Oh and another thing, if your horse has a 'friend horse' that he hangs out with while out (in pasture? wherever it is that he's near the machine) have him watch his friend go up to the machine and then reward him with treats(not your horse, the horse near the machine). My horse is very food motivated so I know that'd work for mine. 
Oh and two questions!
1) Is that the only food your horse is being offered or is it a snack food for when he is out?
2) What's wrong with people giving your horse treats and pets? If you're boarding on their property, they hopefully have some knowledge about horses and should be trustworthy.. I know my horses wouldn't be upset over some extra snacks and scratches...


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## Bluebird (Jul 20, 2011)

I think the points made by Icrazyaboutu are very valid as are a lot of the other posters. If moving him is not an option then you still have choices.
1. Try the desentistising again and reward for good behaviour. Treats work no matter what you think. All the best trainers I know use them including The Spanish Riding School but they have to be used appropriately.
2. Get an expert in to do a proper assessment of your horse and you. There is something more than being a 'scaredy cat' going on if he has been fine for the past 5 years. You have to start looking at what you or other handlers are doing. This situation goes way beyond a spooky horse, especially one who has been 'sound' for 5 years. Either something has changed him or you may have changed and not realised it and this is what he is picking up.
3. The most difficult thing is you and your horse may no longer be compatible and if he is spooking so bad, maybe its best for both of you if you part company and you get yourself another horse. Something seems to have gone badly wrong. Its not a failing but at the end of the day, this is about what is best for your horse. He may need another owner with more experience.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Bluebird said:


> I think the points made by Icrazyaboutu are very valid as are a lot of the other posters. If moving him is not an option then you still have choices.
> 1. Try the desentistising again and reward for good behaviour. Treats work no matter what you think. All the best trainers I know use them including The Spanish Riding School but they have to be used appropriately.
> 2. Get an expert in to do a proper assessment of your horse and you. There is something more than being a 'scaredy cat' going on if he has been fine for the past 5 years. You have to start looking at what you or other handlers are doing. This situation goes way beyond a spooky horse, especially one who has been 'sound' for 5 years. Either something has changed him or you may have changed and not realised it and this is what he is picking up.
> 3. The most difficult thing is you and your horse may no longer be compatible and if he is spooking so bad, maybe its best for both of you if you part company and you get yourself another horse. Something seems to have gone badly wrong. Its not a failing but at the end of the day, this is about what is best for your horse. He may need another owner with more experience.


First of all Im not selling my horse! We have a great relationship and bond. You dont know the hell we've been through in the past 3 yrs! Nothing was wrong with this horse until that **** machine got put up there! The problem is i have no professional to tell the BOs and my parents that something is wrong! My mom just thinks I'm being over dramatic. My dad watched Shaggy freak out and break away from me twice one day just cause when we circled in the whats left of the ring he saw that **** machine. I just thank god i got off to fix the girth before he flipped out.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Icrazyaboutu said:


> I only skimmed this but I think I read all of your replies... Sounds like a lot of excuses OP. Sorry, I sound mean but its true. I give excuses all the time too, so I'm not trying to be rude!
> Honestly, you just need to be brave, grab your horse, and make him be calm near the big scary horse eating monster. He won't be amazing at first but the more and more you do it, the better he will become. And I don't know anything about you or your horse but if you're scared he's gonna trampole you, get a friend to help you. I'm a small 5'6 and I have a 18.2hh draft. I know what its like to be overpowered. But guess what, if you act like you're stronger and MAKE the horse listen to you, they do! It's amazing.
> Oh and another thing, if your horse has a 'friend horse' that he hangs out with while out (in pasture? wherever it is that he's near the machine) have him watch his friend go up to the machine and then reward him with treats(not your horse, the horse near the machine). My horse is very food motivated so I know that'd work for mine.
> Oh and two questions!
> ...


You have valid points but its not excuses when i dont have the experience to do this deal with this kind of behavior. I hate to tell you but to me your not short im 5,2 so im a lot shorter then you so yes i get tend to get a little nervous when a 1200 pound 15 hh animal is dancing in circles around me.
and to answer your questions at the end.
1. No they have plenty of pasture cause we had a light winter last year.
2. theres nothing wrong with giving treats but i've been tying to get Shaggy to lose weight and them giving peppermints and who knows else randomly doesnt help an already over weight horse. Also they dont much cause they just moved in with the son and his girlfriend (her mom) but the sons parents own the place and do somewhat about horses but not enough to help deal with im dealing with or they wouldnt have let the son put that thing up there to begin with!


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## Icrazyaboutu (Jul 17, 2009)

You're 5'2 so 4" shorter than me. You said you were dealing with a 15hh horse... That's a whole foot and quite a few hundred pounds SMALLER than the beast I deal with. So yea, I have an idea of what it's like to be dealing with a big horse. I'm not so sure the horse you're dealing with is all that intimidating compared to my guy. But then again, you did admit that you don't have much experience... 
I don't think you should sell him. I've had issues with my horse( who hasn't?) and it's good to bond while working through it. However, if you honestly believe the only solution is to move the machine, you shouldn't come on here. I'm not going to be nice and say ask the people kindly allowing you to keep your horse in their yard to move their item. No. Get your horse use to it by working with him and rewarding him when he is calm. Stop making excuses and saying you can't handle him. That's a load of bs. If you can't work with him and feel he is unsafe and that the machine being in front of food(that you apparently are trying to keep him off of anyways) then tell your parents your horses need to leave. If they won't do that, sell him. Keep the horse's best interest in your mind. And obviously, if you don't believe you can handle him well enough to desensitize him to the machine that is blocking his extra food that he may or may not actually need, then sell him to someone who can provide him with the training and nutrients he needs.
Oh, and a couple of peppermints here and there aren't going to make him gain a ton of weight. Allowing him to freely eat, however, may.
That's just my opinion. Listen to it or don't, no skin off my back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wetrain17 (May 25, 2011)

Can you not find someone who has more experience then you to work with the horse? It sounds as though something else is going on here and a more experienced eye could help solve your problem.


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

I'd just keep walking past it/up to it until he got over himself. 
But if the hay should be fed there and now is no longer being fed at all, then ALSO ask the BO to move it.


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## Bluebird (Jul 20, 2011)

I am 5'4 and my horses are 18.1 hh and 16.3 hh (Clydesdales). The older one weighs in at nearly a tonne and the younger one is 18 months. It is nothing to do with size it is all about horse behaviour. We could all have a shetland pony and not be able to handle him if he kicks off and pushes boundaries. I think you really need to sit down and talk to your parents about how you are feeling about your horse. The problem on the forum is that the majority of people on here are not mind reades and have no idea how old each poster is so we tend to talk to everyone at the same level i.e. very old - usually 30+ (LOL) and I am even older than that with a very, very thick skin. If you speak to your parents, then they may be able to give you some practical help with your horse or even help find a professional for you. Someone also needs to speak to the Barn Owners on your behalf if they are really doing the things you say (?your parents??) unless you feel able to do it yourself. It really does sound like you are struggling from what you are saying in your posts. Your horse should not be behaving like that and people on here are trying to help. But you also need to recognise anything in your own behaviour that has changed as your horse will pick this up. The bottom line is that all advice on this forum is given for free when asked for. You don't need to take it.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

What is your horse eating?


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## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

I will fully respond to this after work. 

My phone and or horse forum keep eating my long post!


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## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

Double posting because my phone hates the edit button and also because this is more readily helpful. 

When he balks/ pulls back, do you just brace yourself and hold on?

If you do, DON'T. Give some slack and then right after pull back. If you continue to brace, it will just turn into a stupid game of tug of war. Which, the horse will win. 

My instructor had to actually yell this at someone who was handling the saddlebred for him while he tried doing her hooves. She would act up and try to pull away. The handler just simply braced and fought with her even after ignoring what my trainer said. When the instructor did as he well, instructed, she fought less.


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## Prairie Rose (Oct 17, 2012)

I feel the fear in your words. 
It's OK to be scared sometimes.

My horses are not allowed to be snots.
Yes, I have been scared a few times.
Yet, when it gets down to it, I keep working with them on issues until it is resolved.

I regularly drag tarps on them and do off the wall things.
I have ridden right beside a moving train, alongside covered wagons with accordion players inside, through herds of bison, in between narrow spaces like parked semis, etc.

If my horse is nervous about something, I will keep it up til they settle down and accept it and trust wins. I'm kinda stubborn like that. I need to be able to know that my horse and I mutually trust each other, for safety's sake in areas where I ride.

I think your horse has your number, kiddo.

Good luck.

Also, barn owner can park his stuff where he chooses.


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## Prairie Rose (Oct 17, 2012)

I want to add---
My solution for a situation like this would be to put horse to 'work' when he is being stupid about the loader and refusing to approach it.
He would have to keep his feet moving.

Then I would allow him to stop moving and settle. We would approach again. If he acts up...back to work, bozo. 

He would soon learn that the machinery is nothing to fear, but rather, is a good thing to rest by.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

wetrain17 said:


> Can you not find someone who has more experience then you to work with the horse? It sounds as though something else is going on here and a more experienced eye could help solve your problem.


Believe I wish I did have someone but I dont. This isnt a big horse area so there not many horse people around.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

deserthorsewoman said:


> What is your horse eating?


pasture! believe it or not they still have a good one cause of a light winter last year.


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## Prairie Rose (Oct 17, 2012)

Can you get some Clinton Anderson DVD's to watch?


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Icrazyaboutu said:


> You're 5'2 so 4" shorter than me. You said you were dealing with a 15hh horse... That's a whole foot and quite a few hundred pounds SMALLER than the beast I deal with. So yea, I have an idea of what it's like to be dealing with a big horse. I'm not so sure the horse you're dealing with is all that intimidating compared to my guy. But then again, you did admit that you don't have much experience...
> I don't think you should sell him. I've had issues with my horse( who hasn't?) and it's good to bond while working through it. However, if you honestly believe the only solution is to move the machine, you shouldn't come on here. I'm not going to be nice and say ask the people kindly allowing you to keep your horse in their yard to move their item. No. Get your horse use to it by working with him and rewarding him when he is calm. Stop making excuses and saying you can't handle him. That's a load of bs. If you can't work with him and feel he is unsafe and that the machine being in front of food(that you apparently are trying to keep him off of anyways) then tell your parents your horses need to leave. If they won't do that, sell him. Keep the horse's best interest in your mind. And obviously, if you don't believe you can handle him well enough to desensitize him to the machine that is blocking his extra food that he may or may not actually need, then sell him to someone who can provide him with the training and nutrients he needs.
> Oh, and a couple of peppermints here and there aren't going to make him gain a ton of weight. Allowing him to freely eat, however, may.
> That's just my opinion. Listen to it or don't, no skin off my back.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Im not making excuses! I'm saying that I know how to handle him in this situation without one or both of us getting hurt. I never said he was unsafe. I have said the only solution was to move the machine but i do think when there gonna make changes like that up at the barn they need to make sure I'm aware. These people were nice to let us stay there when her crazy ex daughter in law left for new york and left me there with the impression that the they wanted me gone. I cried for a week cause I didnt know what I was going to do. Believe it or not this is only tempory we are looking for our own place but that doesnt happen over night. but Im starting wondering about there knowledge in farming and owning horses.


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## Icrazyaboutu (Jul 17, 2009)

Look, many of us have given you methods to try and desensitize him. We've offered up things to say to your BO. What you do with our advice is your decision but I reccomend actually trying our suggestions out before tossing them out.
Good luck with your horses and hopefully you figure something out.


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## Prairie Rose (Oct 17, 2012)

Uhm...their place, their equipment. 
I saw no problem from the photo.

I personally would run a hotwire to keep critters out of storage area for large equipment, but hey, that's me.

Their place, their choice.

Whole story is getting.....odd.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Bluebird said:


> I am 5'4 and my horses are 18.1 hh and 16.3 hh (Clydesdales). The older one weighs in at nearly a tonne and the younger one is 18 months. It is nothing to do with size it is all about horse behaviour. We could all have a shetland pony and not be able to handle him if he kicks off and pushes boundaries. I think you really need to sit down and talk to your parents about how you are feeling about your horse. The problem on the forum is that the majority of people on here are not mind reades and have no idea how old each poster is so we tend to talk to everyone at the same level i.e. very old - usually 30+ (LOL) and I am even older than that with a very, very thick skin. If you speak to your parents, then they may be able to give you some practical help with your horse or even help find a professional for you. Someone also needs to speak to the Barn Owners on your behalf if they are really doing the things you say (?your parents??) unless you feel able to do it yourself. It really does sound like you are struggling from what you are saying in your posts. Your horse should not be behaving like that and people on here are trying to help. But you also need to recognise anything in your own behaviour that has changed as your horse will pick this up. The bottom line is that all advice on this forum is given for free when asked for. You don't need to take it.


I've tried and tried to talk to my parents. They just say "what do you think we can do about it." I told my mom im gonna get killed if something doesnt change out there. being up there alone doesnt help with getting him used to this thing i mean mom is there but shes down in the car and can't see us at all when were on the side where the machine is. when i read what you said about my behavior I started trying think if its changed. I dont think it has but I do think after my cousins horse ran away with i've been a little more nervous but i thought i was only doing that in the saddle. I dont know its so hard not having a trainer or someone who knows these things around.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Deschutes said:


> Double posting because my phone hates the edit button and also because this is more readily helpful.
> 
> When he balks/ pulls back, do you just brace yourself and hold on?
> 
> ...


no I dont I let him move back and then bring him back to me.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

shaggy said:


> pasture! believe it or not they still have a good one cause of a light winter last year.


Read up on magnesium deficiency, especially the symptoms.
Its a possibility.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Prairie Rose said:


> I feel the fear in your words.
> It's OK to be scared sometimes.
> 
> My horses are not allowed to be snots.
> ...


Kiddo? lol

Sounds like you have plenty of experiences heres the difference I DONT. This is my first time dealing with something like this. I get BO cant park stuff where he wants but he needs to let me know when it involves the horses.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Prairie Rose said:


> Can you get some Clinton Anderson DVD's to watch?


maybe I have a Monty Roberts video that I really need to watch again.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Prairie Rose said:


> I want to add---
> My solution for a situation like this would be to put horse to 'work' when he is being stupid about the loader and refusing to approach it.
> He would have to keep his feet moving.
> 
> ...


I've tried putting him to work. and It doesnt work.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Prairie Rose said:


> Uhm...their place, their equipment.
> I saw no problem from the photo.
> 
> I personally would run a hotwire to keep critters out of storage area for large equipment, but hey, that's me.
> ...


how is it getting odd?


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## Prairie Rose (Oct 17, 2012)

Well, it is odd in several ways.

We have offered you several pieces of solid advice.

Some thank you's are in order.

What I see instead are a bunch of strange negative replies from you.

No one wants you to get hurt.

We all learned one way or another.

I don't think you have tried, at least not correctly.
Nor do I think this is an issue you are equipped to handle on your own, based from what I have read here.

Good luck to ya.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Prairie Rose said:


> Well, it is odd in several ways.
> 
> We have offered you several pieces of solid advice.
> 
> ...


OMG I said four or five times Im not able to handle this on my own! Yes I've have tried several times.


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## Prairie Rose (Oct 17, 2012)

Then none of us can help you......at.all.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Thanks to everyone for all the advice! I have tried some of it. Talking to the BO hasnt been an option yet with it being christmas and all and they have there own problems. Sorry for being negative but im tired of being told to sell my horse by ppl on this forum. This is the second thread this has happened on. I wasnt aware that being new to a situation and not knowing how to deal with it was cause to sell your horse.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Prairie Rose said:


> Then none of us can help you......at.all.


whys that exactly?


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## Prairie Rose (Oct 17, 2012)

Okay....tell us how you think we can help you?

Especially if you admit that you can't handle it alone.

What, exactly, do you think a forum of horse people can do?
Other than what we have done...which is offer up good advice, only to have you keep saying it won't/ it doesn't work
.

We. Can't. Help. You.


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## Icrazyaboutu (Jul 17, 2009)

shaggy said:


> I wasnt aware that being new to a situation and not knowing how to deal with it was cause to sell your horse.


THIS^. No. No one said that the fact that this is a new experience to you is reason to sell your horse. We gave you advice to try and tell you how we(using PAST EXPERIENCES) would try and correct this behavior. You, however, have been consistantly telling us that you can't handle your horse and that you can't fix this because you don't have someone holding your hand or doing the training for you. I understand you are intimidated and scared but unless you get out there and attempt to solve this little problem of yours, we aren't going to be telling you to sit tight, keep your horse that you dont want to try and correct, and yell at the people who own the property. No.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Prairie Rose said:


> Okay....tell us how you think we can help you?
> 
> Especially if you admit that you can't handle it alone.
> 
> ...


I know its good advice. Dont you think its a little strange that my horse isnt used to this thing when he has free access to walk about it and be near it. Dont you think its strange that every little noise makes him jump now?


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Icrazyaboutu said:


> THIS^. No. No one said that the fact that this is a new experience to you is reason to sell your horse. We gave you advice to try and tell you how we(using PAST EXPERIENCES) would try and correct this behavior. You, however, have been consistantly telling us that you can't handle your horse and that you can't fix this because you don't have someone holding your hand or doing the training for you. I understand you are intimidated and scared but unless you get out there and attempt to solve this little problem of yours, we aren't going to be telling you to sit tight, keep your horse that you dont want to try and correct, and yell at the people who own the property. No.


I never said anything about yelling at the ppl who own the place. They are great ppl. I just wish they would tell when they make chances at the barn. I dont think I'm as scared of my horse as I'm of getting hurt trying to fix this problem. I dont want someone holding my hand and doing it for me but having some who knows what they are doing there to help and tell if im doing things right or wrong would be nice.


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## Prairie Rose (Oct 17, 2012)

I think if he is suddenly scared of his own shadow, he'd be at the vet getting tested for every equine neurological illness known to man. 

I wouldn't be sitting at a computer until I knew my horse was being checked out, treated, and is non-contagious.

Health issues ruled out, it would be back to ground zero respect and training.


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## Prairie Rose (Oct 17, 2012)

Nor do I think your parents should be sitting in the car and no one is watching you.

Odd.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Prairie Rose said:


> I think if he is suddenly scared of his own shadow, he'd be at the vet getting tested for every equine neurological illness known to man.
> 
> I wouldn't be sitting at a computer until I knew my horse was being checked out, treated, and is non-contagious.
> 
> Health issues ruled out, it would be back to ground zero respect and training.


I didnt think about a neurological problem. He's always been health would something like that come on that fast?


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Prairie Rose said:


> Nor do I think your parents should be sitting in the car and no one is watching you.
> 
> Odd.


well I'm 23 I can handle myself when I'm just grooming. I always keep my phone on me and Im not gonna make my mom sit out in the cold while im riding. She used to be able to pull right up where the ring was but they had to rework the gates cause my horse and another kept breaking out. so now its easier to leave the truck at the bottem of the field.


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## Prairie Rose (Oct 17, 2012)

Lot of neurological illnesses out there.

Is your horse vaccinated against rabies, west Nile, encephalitis, just to name a few?

Vet would need to run a lot of blood work to check titres.

But I still figure this horse has your number and lean in that direction.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Prairie Rose said:


> Lot of neurological illnesses out there.
> 
> Is your horse vaccinated against rabies, west Nile, encephalitis, just to name a few?
> 
> ...


yeah he was vaccinated against rabies and west nile but encephalitis. what do you mean he as my number?


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## Prairie Rose (Oct 17, 2012)

Encephalitis is carried by mosquitoes.

Google equine neurological diseases. 

He's got your number means he is the boss.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Prairie Rose said:


> Encephalitis is carried by mosquitoes.
> 
> Google equine neurological diseases.
> 
> He's got your number means he is the boss.


Thats great to know. Mosquitoes are a constant out there in the summer spring and fall cause the fields flood and constantly stay wet.

Oh duh I should have known that lol


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

I google equine neurological diseases. and of the stuff i read Shaggy has none of those type of symptoms.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

You must have not seen my post with all the arguing......Google magnesium deficiency in horses and see if the symptoms sound like your horse. If so, supplementing magnesium will make him less jumpy and irrational.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

deserthorsewoman said:


> You must have not seen my post with all the arguing......Google magnesium deficiency in horses and see if the symptoms sound like your horse. If so, supplementing magnesium will make him less jumpy and irrational.


ok doing that right now!


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

it does kinda sound like Shaggy in the last couple weeks. Especially all of this *Anxiety, irritability, spooky, defensive behavior, random bucking, rearing and refusals are just the tip of the iceberg of magnesium deficiency symptoms.*
i dont really thing he's been defensive tho but maybe thats just me. It said that these symptoms can happen in times of stress. Shaggy defiantly stressing over that machine.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

That's what I thought. Grass/ hay only can be the reason. Soils nowadays are deficient in a lot of things, that's why at least a vitamin/ mineral supplement or a Ration Balancer is a good thing. In his case I would load him back up with magnesium for sure. If it doesn't make a difference within, say, a month, you're at least a step ahead and know it's behavioural.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

deserthorsewoman said:


> That's what I thought. Grass/ hay only can be the reason. Soils nowadays are deficient in a lot of things, that's why at least a vitamin/ mineral supplement or a Ration Balancer is a good thing. In his case I would load him back up with magnesium for sure. If it doesn't make a difference within, say, a month, you're at least a step ahead and know it's behavioural.


I didnt even begin to think about Minerals and stuff. They have a mineral/salt block but I dont know how much they mess with it lol Is this something i should have the vet out for before i do anything?


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

No, no vet needed. Google again how much magnesium they advise for treatment and get a supplement. Then I'd check into ration balancers or at least a vit/ min supplement. The block usually dissolve in the rain, untouched. I've not seen many horses who actually use them. There are loose minerals you can put out, free choice, but that would work only if it's only your horses in that pasture, unless you want to do some good and have all of them have it;-)


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

deserthorsewoman said:


> No, no vet needed. Google again how much magnesium they advise for treatment and get a supplement. Then I'd check into ration balancers or at least a vit/ min supplement. The block usually dissolve in the rain, untouched. I've not seen many horses who actually use them. There are loose minerals you can put out, free choice, but that would work only if it's only your horses in that pasture, unless you want to do some good and have all of them have it;-)


ok good dont really have 60 bucks for a farm call right now lol and ok i will go back to googling and see what i can find on vit/min supplements. I do have one question tho wouldnt all the horses in this field be acting this way since they all eat the same thing?


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Not necessarily. You said he's a bit on the chubby side, right? Could be a metabolic issue. Its quite complicated to explain, but easy keepers are more prone to getting certain kinds of upholstery( cresty neck, fat patches next to the tail and behind the shoulders, over the withers), which become smaller and soft again when those horses are supplemented with magnesium. So there is a connection between metabolism of sugars and starches, and the sugar high is basically what you see in him.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

shaggy said:


> Exactly its not normal that he's not used to it by now because the thing has been there for weeks and the horses can freely walk around where it is.


So what's the issue? You, the barn, other things? 

It's your job to figure out what's going on with your horse.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

AlexS said:


> So what's the issue? You, the barn, other things?
> 
> It's your job to figure out what's going on with your horse.


yeah I know I'm trying. Im definably gonna look into the magnesium deficiency and see if thats the problem but I'm leaning toward behavior issues. The more i think about it the more I think i've lost his respect because one day he decided to be a butt after the temp dropped and wouldn't let me catch him. I wandered around the field for an hour trying to catch him. I would've stayed until I actually caught him but I was late for work. So I think by letting him win that round he realized he could get away with stuff.


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## Bluebird (Jul 20, 2011)

You really do need to talk to your parents. It sounds like you are overwhelmed by what is happening and you need to put the breaks on for a littel while. I would also recommend that you don't start trying to find out yourself if he has 'health problems' otherwise this could end up in a whole lot of other problems. If you look hard enough, you will find all sorts of 'problems' which you think he has and this will increase if you start to look on the internet. DON'T DO IT. If you are concerned in any way about his health, you need to get a vet to check him. I don't want to sound patronising but it seems you may not quite be old enough to deal with this on your own. I am sure if you let people know where you are in the country, someone on the forum could come and help you out. I'm in the UK so its a bit far for me to come but I am sure there are other forum members who are near you. You won't get any more help for your situation from this thread as there are just too many problems. When someone gives you advice for one issue, you seem to come back with another and why it won't work. I am not saying that to be rude but what is happening is you have let everything get on top of you and now you can't see a way forward. Talk to your mum and dad, you really have no choice in this one and the forum really can't provide you with the help you need.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Uhm...I really don't see a problem in giving this horse vitamins and minerals, knowing he doesn't get any.....and magnesium is a tried and true supplement for calming. Don't need to be a vet to see that. 
It can only help, and, IMO, is a helluva lot better than constantly telling her that she's not capable of handling her horse.
If it helps him to concentrate a bit more, and calms him, she can get through to him with all the other training suggestions made here.


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## Bluebird (Jul 20, 2011)

The problem with vitamins and minerals is that the wrong amounts they can actually do harm and upset balance. You really need to know what you are doing witht hese things and it seems that this is a young girl who needs some support first hand rather than from a forum.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Well, she could contact her county extension office to find out what's missing in the soil in her area, and supplement with that in mind. There are supplements made for a grass/hay diet only. 
I see the bigger problem in oversupplementing with giving grain, a ration balancer and a vit/min supplement all together. But a supplement made especially for a grass diet will not oversupplement. The magnesium I suggested due to the symptoms she mentions. And IME it's definitely worth a try. There are signs to watch for when the horse's magnesium storage is full, so no danger here, if one looks for these.
But, as always, when it comes to horses, you ask 5 people the same question and you get 7 different opinions.
I suggested, it's up to her to decide.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Bluebird said:


> You really do need to talk to your parents. It sounds like you are overwhelmed by what is happening and you need to put the breaks on for a littel while. I would also recommend that you don't start trying to find out yourself if he has 'health problems' otherwise this could end up in a whole lot of other problems. If you look hard enough, you will find all sorts of 'problems' which you think he has and this will increase if you start to look on the internet. DON'T DO IT. If you are concerned in any way about his health, you need to get a vet to check him. I don't want to sound patronising but it seems you may not quite be old enough to deal with this on your own. I am sure if you let people know where you are in the country, someone on the forum could come and help you out. I'm in the UK so its a bit far for me to come but I am sure there are other forum members who are near you. You won't get any more help for your situation from this thread as there are just too many problems. When someone gives you advice for one issue, you seem to come back with another and why it won't work. I am not saying that to be rude but what is happening is you have let everything get on top of you and now you can't see a way forward. Talk to your mum and dad, you really have no choice in this one and the forum really can't provide you with the help you need.


Im 23 but I'm not very experienced. Its long and painful story but basically I got abandon by my trainer cause she divorced the BOs son and decided that she was moving back to new york. Basically she left me there with the impression that the BOs didnt want me there and that I would need to move my horses. I also only had a 1 year and half experience owning a horse. So I was still in the stage where i worried about everything. She left me with no regular vet or farrier. Im honestly lucky I've come this far owning two horses one being blind in one eye. When something goes wrong its up to me to figure out what it is and if a vet is needed. Unfortanly I cant afford to call the vet out there every time something changes with my horses. I've tried talking to my parents they just shrug it off like its no big deal maybe when i get hurt they'll open there eyes.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Uhm...I really don't see a problem in giving this horse vitamins and minerals, knowing he doesn't get any.....and magnesium is a tried and true supplement for calming. Don't need to be a vet to see that.
> It can only help, and, IMO, is a helluva lot better than constantly telling her that she's not capable of handling her horse.
> If it helps him to concentrate a bit more, and calms him, she can get through to him with all the other training suggestions made here.


I dont think it would hurt to give a little bit especially if it will calm him down enough to work with him. Once hes clam them i can start getting him comfortable with machine. I hope. lol


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Bluebird said:


> The problem with vitamins and minerals is that the wrong amounts they can actually do harm and upset balance. You really need to know what you are doing witht hese things and it seems that this is a young girl who needs some support first hand rather than from a forum.


Im 23 and i wasn't planing on giving him a lot. I'm very carefull about what horses get.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

I just wanted to say one thing. I am gonna look into getting some magnesium but I just wanted to point out that none of this behavior started until that machine was put up there next to the hay.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Lack of any vitamin or mineral doesn't come on suddenly. It takes time. With magnesium, horses have it stored in their body. Once the storage is empty, they start showing symptoms. Maybe the appearance of the "monster " fell together with his empty storage....if it's that what makes him act strange. He probably didn't have a reason to act up, the monster triggered it. Now he's got himself so worked up, anything triggers an overreaction.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Lack of any vitamin or mineral doesn't come on suddenly. It takes time. With magnesium, horses have it stored in their body. Once the storage is empty, they start showing symptoms. Maybe the appearance of the "monster " fell together with his empty storage....if it's that what makes him act strange. He probably didn't have a reason to act up, the monster triggered it. Now he's got himself so worked up, anything triggers an overreaction.


Makes since what i read said that stress can make symptoms appear.


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

*So i've got another update!*

Today was a much better day at the barn than i've had in a long time. Shaggy was practically back to normal! I even got him to almost completely walk up to the machine. I started out doing the approach and retreat thing. Each time I stopped him let him chill for sec then moved forward. I think we probably got within 3 feet of the machine before I decided not to push him any further and I turned him around and we walked nicely away. I wish I had a treat to give him he was good. He was also his normal bored self while i was getting burrs out and even relaxed his foot each he hasnt done in awhile. Maybe he is finally getting used to this machine hopefully.


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## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

shaggy said:


> Today was a much better day at the barn than i've had in a long time. Shaggy was practically back to normal! I even got him to almost completely walk up to the machine. I started out doing the approach and retreat thing. Each time I stopped him let him chill for sec then moved forward. I think we probably got within 3 feet of the machine before I decided not to push him any further and I turned him around and we walked nicely away. I wish I had a treat to give him he was good. He was also his normal bored self while i was getting burrs out and even relaxed his foot each he hasnt done in awhile. Maybe he is finally getting used to this machine hopefully.


 Approach and retreat works, some horses just take longer! I'm happy Shaggy was better today with it......


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## Icrazyaboutu (Jul 17, 2009)

Was today your first time trying approach and retreat?


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Thunderspark said:


> Approach and retreat works, some horses just take longer! I'm happy Shaggy was better today with it......


Thanks me 2!


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Icrazyaboutu said:


> Was today your first time trying approach and retreat?


no second time but its been about 2 weeks since the first try. guess hes gotten a little more used to the machine now.


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## Icrazyaboutu (Jul 17, 2009)

Were you more confident while walking him up to it this time?


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Icrazyaboutu said:


> Were you more confident while walking him up to it this time?


yeah you know what I think I was!


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## Icrazyaboutu (Jul 17, 2009)

So, had you taken all of our suggestions from page one or even page two, you would have solved the problem much sooner... Excuses can be very detrimental on progress...

But good job! I'm glad you got more confortable and were able to be reassuring to Shaggy this time. Hopefully you've learned something from this little experience and you can handle more of these situations easier


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## shaggy (Dec 8, 2010)

Icrazyaboutu said:


> So, had you taken all of our suggestions from page one or even page two, you would have solved the problem much sooner... Excuses can be very detrimental on progress...
> 
> But good job! I'm glad you got more confortable and were able to be reassuring to Shaggy this time. Hopefully you've learned something from this little experience and you can handle more of these situations easier


lol I couldnt take them sooner than i had today cause this was first time i'd been out there since most of them were made cause of weather lol but thanks Im glad I got more comfortable too and as you said hopefully I'll be able to handle this situations a little easier


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