# I Have no idea what this colt is



## BansheeBabe (Apr 5, 2011)

What do you mean, color or breed? His color is brown, because of the lack of black points, and as for the breed. No idea. But I dont know what you want to know so hope this helps??


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## ItzKayley (Jun 8, 2011)

Bay or Bukskin, I think.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

BansheeBabe said:


> What do you mean, color or breed? His color is brown, because of the lack of black points, and as for the breed. No idea. But I dont know what you want to know so hope this helps??


Bay foals are usually born without the black points, and brown horses can have black points.

I think bay, however the mottled skin under his tail is making me suspect more, maybe champagne. Someone far more expert than I could tell you.


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## Dusty and Olivia (Jun 22, 2011)

Bay or buksin. and as for breed i dont know, TB or SB maybe.


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

not sure if thats mottled skin, could be his fuzzies comming off and looking moth eaten


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## DCKaio (Jun 21, 2011)

He's got mottled butt. 
He was also born almost black, he started lightening up about a month ago. 
I was thinking maybe a smoky black or smoky buckskin? 
Would it be possible for the creme gene (if he has it) to come out later as opposed to at birth?

Also I know he is either a Bs paint or a QH so I am not concerned with what his breed is necessarily, I am just confused by this color changing baby, his markings suggest the paint stud as QH don't typically have eyeliner do they?

Thanks again everyone for your input.


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

well mottled skin comes with champagne, especially if it looks like flea bites but on the skin instead of fur, so smokey black is a possibility. 
and no the cream gene would be there from birth, it's not like the Lp appy gene, or silver, if he has the cream gene he'll be palomino, buckskin, or smokeyblack. but regardless adult color is practically impossible to tell as babies so you'll have to wait and see, or get him tested.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

His baby hair is probably sunbleached at this point. The best time to guess colors on foal coats is first born to a couple of days after. After that they start to sunbleach and it can really skew the color.


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## DCKaio (Jun 21, 2011)

If mottled means champagne then I know who the daddy is- He has one cream gene and one champagne gene. I am going to have him tested either way- so that I can register him, but I didn't know that about the champagnes. Thank you so much- it will be interesting to see what he looks like when he gets older. THANK YOU!!!


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

What colour are his eyes? Aren't champagnes usually born with light eyes? My mind is saying green?


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## To ride the sky (May 30, 2011)

Not Smoky Black...here are three Smoky Black full siblings that are the same colour as they were as foals.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

To ride the sky, just to clarify, smoke blacks can and do look different than the foals you posted. They do not always look like that.


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## Crossover (Sep 18, 2010)

From what I see I'm thinking he's shedding black. Testing is an excellent idea and will help clear up any confusion.


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## To ride the sky (May 30, 2011)

NdAppy said:


> To ride the sky, just to clarify, smoke blacks can and do look different than the foals you posted. They do not always look like that.


I was under the impression that the color Smoky black didn't change from birth to adulthood. That they are always that smoke/burgundy color. Is it possible for them to be brownish/champagne as the foal in this thread and to be multiple colors instead of one overall tone? How much can the color change from babyhood to adulthood? Do you have examples? 
All of these seem to be one overall tone that falls within that same smoke/burgundy tone.

CPEA The Smoky Black Color


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

A smokey black horse can look exactly like regular black horse. There is no visual way to tell a smokey black from a regular black 100% of the time. You have to have the cream test to know for sure.


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## aneternalflame (May 25, 2009)

To ride the sky said:


> I was under the impression that the color Smoky black didn't change from birth to adulthood. That they are always that smoke/burgundy color. Is it possible for them to be brownish/champagne as the foal in this thread and to be multiple colors instead of one overall tone? How much can the color change from babyhood to adulthood? Do you have examples?
> All of these seem to be one overall tone that falls within that same smoke/burgundy tone.
> 
> CPEA The Smoky Black Color


Smoky black Morgans..









No adult photo.









^foal








^adult

















^foal








^yearling








^3yo
(yes, that horse is a tested smoky black)


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

Hummm my filly when born I was told she looked silver, her mother carries the dilute and my filly is the spitting image of her mother AQHA has her listed as brown if you look at my sig. picture thats her on a cloudy day


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

For some reason the pic isnt showing up sorry but there is a picture of her in my coat calculator thread.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

LuvMyPerlinoQH said:


> Hummm my filly when born I was told she looked silver, her mother carries the dilute and my filly is the spitting image of her mother AQHA has her listed as brown if you look at my sig. picture thats her on a cloudy day


I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as Chiilaa or NDAppy when it comes to colors, but I BELIEVE silver is a modifier, not an actual color. The silvery-grey coat color many foals are born with isn't really any indication of their future color....for example -

My baby Fiona in her foal coat which was that silvery-mousey gray:










And her now as a yearling, now, (common consensus is that she and her brother are dark liver chestnuts):


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Indy i would actually say yours is a really, really sundfaded black and not chestnut at all. The baby silver-y color is an indicator of black.

And yes silver in and of itself is its own color.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

ND, a lot of people have said that based on pictures of her (and her brother as well) but when they see her in person they say otherwise, because her coat actually grows in like that, starting from her underside and flanks which I am told is an area that typically doesn't sun fade much. But at the same time she retains a black head (her brother does not). On her one foot that has no sock or stocking, she has that tell-tale lighter ring around the fetlock I am told is the hallmark of a chestnut. So I have heard a lot of different opinions on the subject, I think the only way to know for sure is to have her tested. I have not tested her or her brother at all so I really don't know. Her mother is a fading black (tobiano/sabino?), but she doesn't sunbleach nearly as much. Freyja has a LOT of stray whites all through her coat, ticking style, jagged edges to the white patches, and pointy socks, so I suspect she is sabino though she is not tested. (She is half shire, half paint - Shire's typically DO carry sabino) Sire of both is a chestnut, full Shire, also sabino I suspect. Finn, Fiona's brother, has a large belly spot (as does his sire) but Fiona shows no sabino signs outside her multi-colored tail. (hard to get on a picture though lol). So lots of confusing factors going on to pinpoint a color. Most people who have seen them in person seem to agree on liver chestnut, though.


I didn't know silver was a true color, thought it was just a modifying gene (like in silver bays). So thank you for teaching me something new  lol


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Well it is a modifier. >.< I should have worded that different.

What i was trying to say is there is actually a modifier/color that is called silver. Not like "silver" grullo/a horses which is describing the color and not the true name of the color. 

Gah. Tell me if I am making any sense. Running on a lack of sleep.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

NdAppy said:


> Well it is a modifier. >.< I should have worded that different.
> 
> What i was trying to say is there is actually a modifier/color that is called silver. Not like "silver" grullo/a horses which is describing the color and not the true name of the color.
> 
> Gah. Tell me if I am making any sense. Running on a lack of sleep.


You're not. Lol. But I understand the lack of sleep.

I know that silver can be a modifier, like in ponies (my son's pony Misty is a silver bay, and it's also a modifier in silver dapples/taffy right?) but is there actually such a thing as a silver colored horse? I got the impression that was what the previous poster was asking, I didn't think there was such a thing (but as mentioned, I don't know much about color, still trying to learn because I find the genetics fascinating!). As for other stuff I decided to stop thread hijacking and sent you a long, rambling, blabber filled PM instead :lol:


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

No there is no silver horse. 

Silver is a modification and horses are referred to as Silvers when they carry it. There are silver dapple or silver black, and silver bays. Sometimes both are called silvers with out saying anything more than Silver. 

Silver lightens black hairs and works only on black. Red horses can carry silver but it will not show on their coat because there is no black to lighten. Silver will also cause the mane and tail to bleach out, which will vary in degree from horse to horse.


ETA silver is also heard a lot when talking about grullo/a horses. But it is not referring to anything more than the silvery color that a horse is. In my opinion it is incorrect to refer to a grullo/a as silver unless they are carrying the silver gene. More so since there are APHA and AQHA horse that are known to carry the silver gene.


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## DCKaio (Jun 21, 2011)

He is shedding out nicely. I'll get pics for you all soon. 
Also had him tested. He is a sable champagne. He is really cool looking now!

Awesome little guy- Thank you for your input!


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## OTTBLover (Jun 23, 2011)

Subbing to see photos of him! You are so lucky to have been given such a gorgeous guy as a gift!


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

BansheeBabe said:


> What do you mean, color or breed? His color is brown, because of the lack of black points, and as for the breed. No idea. But I dont know what you want to know so hope this helps??


This is in the color section, so it is safe to assume that's the question they are asking.


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## heartprints62 (Feb 27, 2010)

The eyeliner and the dark skin on the muzzel, I say the paint is the daddy. As far as color, I say bay.


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