# Face/leg white. Opinions?



## JustAwesome (Jun 22, 2011)

The markings on the legs are called pasterns, half pasterns or ankles .. just depends how far up the white goes. The face markings are called star and snip.

What could be causing it?, Most probably he is taking after his sire and dam.


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## Reno Bay (Jul 8, 2012)

lol I know what they're _called_, but there is a prominent theory that all white markings are caused by one of the pinto genes. In any case, his sire was chestnut with only a blaze. I can't find any pictures of his dam.


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## JustAwesome (Jun 22, 2011)

Ok.

Have you researched further back in the line? 

I can't really see how it's caused by a pinto gene, he has no white above the knee's or belly line? 

His dam may of had half pasterns..?


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

JustAwesome - any white on the horse that isn't from scarring is caused by a pinto gene. Some horses just express it very minimally and have "normal" face and leg markings. Others express it to a louder degree, and have what is considered "pinto" markings. However, they are all caused by one of the several pinto genes.

OP - Your horse probably has sabino. His face white is fairly symmetrical, and fairly narrow within the confines of his face. His leg white is somewhat "messy" and has the typical spear head of a sabino leg marking.


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## JustAwesome (Jun 22, 2011)

That would mean my mum's horse's white is caused from a pinto gene and everyone's horse who has white also (if they're not an appy etc)?


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Yup exactly that


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## Reno Bay (Jul 8, 2012)

Thank you Chiilaa. I was hoping you'd come over here XD


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

He also looks bay, not brown to me. He has the rich burnt mahogany coat usually associated with bay and none of the mealiness usually associated with brown.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

JustAwesome said:


> That would mean my mum's horse's white is caused from a pinto gene and everyone's horse who has white also (if they're not an appy etc)?


Yes, but Appys are no exception. Leg and facial white on Appys are due to the same factors as any other breed...


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I've actually seen a lot of blatantly pinto Appaloosa's - high leg white, splashy bald faces. There was an adorable registered Appy stud at a barn we were at who was a palomino blanket varnish roan with splashy high whites and lots of face white. Pretty sure he was sabino, could have been splash but I don't remember correctly now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reno Bay (Jul 8, 2012)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> He also looks bay, not brown to me. He has the rich burnt mahogany coat usually associated with bay and none of the mealiness usually associated with brown.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He tends to get really dark in the winter with a little of that mealiness around his muzzle, which is why I'm testing him just to be sure. Regardless of what he is, I still love him to death XD


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

MM - the pictures all show a horse in summer coat. During summer, most browns will mimic bay to a certain extent. It's in winter that they show their true colours, so to speak.


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## miarabianversatility (Oct 16, 2012)

Actually I would not consider his markings Sabino. Sabinos have very irregular marks especially on the face and taller on the legs (I have one) not uniform ones. And usually have white flecking or very irregular spots on the belly or lower throat in maximum sabinos.

White markings are tuff to truely pin point. 

Some say its a pinto trait to which I ask then how do Arabians get white markings? A pure bred Arabian does not carry the pinto gene (yes the exact gene has been found in pinto horses but not the Arab) and Sabino/Rabicino in Arabians is not produced by the pinto gene. Unlike other breeds the Arabian is blood tested before registration is allowed to ensure pure status. So saying "color" was introduced is not possible.

Arabian foals do not get lethal white syndrome because they do not carry the pinto/sabino gene that other breeds do.

I think there are more factors at play than what us humans will admit. The whole control freak thing humans have going on,lol.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

There are MULTIPLE pinto genes, and yes arabians do carry some forms of those pinto genes. 

All white patterns are caused by either pinto genes or LP and PATN.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

miarabianversatility said:


> Actually I would not consider his markings Sabino. Sabinos have very irregular marks especially on the face and taller on the legs (I have one) not uniform ones. And usually have white flecking or very irregular spots on the belly or lower throat in maximum sabinos.
> 
> White markings are tuff to truely pin point.
> 
> ...


Arabians don't have FRAME which causes lethal white, no. They DO have sabino, which does NOT have anything to do with lethal white. Arabians also have rabicano, another of the pinto genes, and probably have splash white too. They also have dominant white, yet another pinto gene. In reality, the only pinto genes they DON'T have is tobiano and frame.

I would definitely say this horse is displaying sabino. The leg markings are irregular, showing distinct arrow-head markings. Sabino doesn't cause irregular face white - it likes faces to be symmetrical and neat, narrow white on the center of the face, just like this horse.

So which "exact pinto gene" are you talking about? So far, a lot of them have been identified - sabino 1, tobiano, frame, splash 1, splash 2, splash 3, 5 varieties of dominant white. Still to be isolated is rabicano, an unknown number of sabino genes, at least one more type of splash, and at least 6 more dominant white. Which one are you talking about??


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## Reno Bay (Jul 8, 2012)

Maybe I should take notes. I'm learning a lot from this little debate XD

Chiilaa, when I put aside the money to test him for _At_ and _a_, could I also test him for white pattern genes (such as Sabino, Splash, and the like)? Do you even think he'd test positive for any of them (Sabino, for instance, since you think that is what is causing his whites)? I love learning this stuff *gushes*


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Sabino has only one strain that is currently testable. There is probably at least one more, maybe more than one. There are three strains of splash that are testable.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Chiilaa said:


> Sabino has only one strain that is currently testable. There is probably at least one more, maybe more than one. There are three strains of splash that are testable.


No probably, there HAS to be at least one more, whenever they can identify it in Arabians. I'm going to say that they carry a splash gene.that is accounting for the.blue eyes that are popping up now and again. 

I think MiArabian, you are used to seeing sabinos expressed like this Arabian (she also expresses the rabicano gene quite heavily). I had a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that "normal" white is a sabino gene. THIS is what I think of when I hear sabino. It's all just a matter of how loudly it gets expressed.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Exactly WSA. And we do not know at this point in time what kind of suppressor genes there are and if they only affect certain patterns or all patterns... there is so much to learn.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

NdAppy said:


> Exactly WSA. And we do not know at this point in time what kind of suppressor genes there are and if they only affect certain patterns or all patterns... there is so much to learn.



Exactly. When you think about, we have only uncoded 8% of our own DNA. And we've been studying that much longer then our equine friend's.


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