# Greys, your opinion please



## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

As they old saying goes, you can't ride color. A good horse is never a bad color. Yes, they are more prone to skin cancer, yes they are harder to keep clean. I don't think greys are more prone to sunburn because they skin isn't pink and the hair is covering the body. Their white faces would likely get sunburns like any other horse. Would that stop me? Nope.
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## SketchedOut (Dec 18, 2013)

I have tried to tell my dad that 
On a sidenote, what is the best way to prevent sunburn for a paddock kept horse?


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

You can either use a fly mask with a nose cover like this









Or you can use a heavy duty sunscreen to prevent sunburn.

I have a gray horse and, if I can avoid it, I will never have another. I don't worry so much about keeping him clean but the melanoma thing really bothers me. My guy is 12 this year and he's already had 2 removed when he was 7 and he's got 7 more now that I need to have surgically removed. In all likelihood, due to how many he's gotten at such a young age, that probably means that his lifespan will be shorter than a non-gray counterpart. I pray I'm wrong, but I also need to prepare myself for the possibility.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Funny story, we had a grey horse (who turned completely white) live to be 35.
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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Most grey horses will not die of melanomas.

Pink skin is a bigger concern than grey fur. You can cover up a horse with a fly sheet and mask and that will help. I know far more horses with pink skin that have sun-related problems than I do grey horses. And I know a lot of greys! My horse is grey.
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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

Remember that not all greys get melanomas either. My sister owns a grey mare who will be 30 this year. She just had a lookover by the vet on Tuesday and not a single lump anywhere, and she's never had that problem. If you happen to find a horse that suits your needs that also happens to be grey, I wouldn't let that be the deciding factor.
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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

SketchedOut said:


> My parents don't want to let me get a grey because my mum thinks they are unattractive and my dad thinks we shouldn't get a grey because they get sunburnt, prone to cancers and are too hard to keep clean. Do you think these are viable reasons to not get a grey?


Horses of any color can be unattractive, due to conformation, build, attitude, gaits, health and body condition. Some of these can be improved to make a horse more attractive and other factors cannot be changed. I have seen some breathtaking greys that are to die for because of how well they were put together with the right genetics as well as many environmental conditions that gave them the fitness and health. 

Sunburn is occurs on pink skin color which is under white markings. Grey horses started life as another color that their grey blanket covered up. Their skin color is black and the only pink skin will be where they had white markings at birth. Basically, they will have the same problems with sunburn even if they didn't turn grey. 

Greys can be more prone to cancer, but not all greys will have cancer. My heart horse was a grey mare, her life ended prematurely in a lightning storm. Other horses die at a young age from all sorts of things like accidents, injuries, sickness and colic. You can not predict what may or may not happen in the future when looking at a good horse that suits your needs. 

Many horses are difficult to "keep clean" no matter their color. Blacks are also hard to keep clean, so are pintos and any horse with lots of white on their legs. Get a horse around mud and it won't matter what their color is, it will be plainly obvious that they are needing a bath. 

When it comes to shopping for the right horse as your first horse, don't worry about color. They will be perfect just because they are what you need. The considerations in what to look for in a horse is: temperament, age, training, riding discipline, health, height, conformation, soundness, movement and if you feel like you can trust your life on their back and on the ground. 

Good luck on your search


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

As for keeping them clean , that just depends on the horse. My dun fjord is always cleaner, she does not roll in the mud, she does not roll in the poo.She has less dirt on her, shows by brushing. My red gelding is a cleaner horse, the grey mare is also clean.
the white paint gelding is a pig as well as the black draft mix and TB .. PIGS..got mud they are in it.. It does show more in stains on the lighter coat, but again, you can go out and find them caked in mud .. caked..


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Any light colored horse will appear worse than a dark colored horse of the exact same conformation because a lighter color is easier to see faults in. However, a nicely built grey [or cremello/perlino/smokey cream/dominant white] is STUNNING to look at.

Keeping them clean... yes... an issue lol! I had a white-grey pony a few years ago and I got him so white he glowed even on cloudy days. The secret is purple shampoo and then for the really stubborn marks, oatmeal soap that you get from the grocery store. One soap bar rubbed into the stain [be it in the mane, tail, or on the body] will remove it. And you just don't bother unless you're taking them to a show!

I now have a chestnut with three white stockings and I find that more difficult on show day than an all-white [be it grey or something else] horse.


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## SketchedOut (Dec 18, 2013)

Thanks everyone for answering
Regarding melanomas, has anyone heard of or used a melanoma vaccine?
I was just looking at Horse Nation and there was a recent post about a melanoma vaccine called Oncept. Anyone heard of it? The post link is here if anyone is interested in reading more A Vaccine for Melanomas? Â« HORSE NATION


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## JMaldaner (Mar 18, 2014)

SketchedOut said:


> Thanks everyone for answering
> Regarding melanomas, has anyone heard of or used a melanoma vaccine?
> I was just looking at Horse Nation and there was a recent post about a melanoma vaccine called Oncept. Anyone heard of it?[/url]


I have not heard of that vaccine. But, for our grey, who has had a melanoma, our vet prescribed one tab daily of Cimetidine, 800 mg. This is very inexpensive (especially if you get it via WalMart Pharmacy) and is easily crushed and added to his morning feed.

In regards to the original question, I wouldn't let any color stand in the way of a horse that, otherwise, is what I was looking for. Yes, grey is harder to keep clean. But, you do what you need to do for the horse you love. If you were looking for easy, you'd ride a bike.


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## laurapratt01 (Oct 3, 2012)

I always vowed that I would NEVER EVER have a grey horse! Mostly because my best friend growing up had two grey mares and I saw her struggle daily to keep them even mildly presentable looking. They were always filthy and I knew that I was way too OCD for that....
Well skip ahead 10 years and I now have a grey horse... and I struggle everyday to keep him mildly presentable looking. My OCD has practically disappeared because I've found it to be near impossible to keep him unstained.
He also has several melanomas. I worry about them all the time but my vet tells me not to until they are actually causing a problem.
I have heard of the vaccine but I don't know anyone who has used it and I must admit that I know very little about it. I'm interested to hear other peoples input on it.
When I get another horse, it won't be grey for those two main reasons but I don't regret getting my horse for even a second. Jack is one of a kind and I know I'll never find another horse like him. Would I prefer him to be a melanoma free bay? Yes, but I still love him to pieces


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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

One of my old geldings (now deceased; age 32) was grey. He never had melanomas. He had the type of coat with short slick hairs that seemed to repel stains and dirt so he was never overly dirty. Unfortunately, I now have a cremello mare that replaced his cleanliness with double dirty.

As other posters have said - you don't ride the colour. It is more important for the two of you to click with each other and then you'll each have happier lives.

Good luck with your search.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Its only the pink skin areas that get sunburn - and my pinto and the draft x have that problem - my grey has all black skin so never suffers at all. The face masks as shown by someone seem to sort that out anyway


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## dressagebelle (May 13, 2009)

I got a grey Arab, and I loved watching her color change from season to season. Never had a sunburn issue with her, and she's got pretty sensitive skin. She also isn't too hard to keep clean at least on her body. My issue with her was her tail that wasn't washed for probably 3 years, so it was horribly yellow, and since it's half black half white, black hairs in the middle, white hairs surrounding the outside, it was a pain to try and get white again. And as she rips off her own tail bags, they weren't an option lol. 

I had a much harder time getting my bay pinto looking clean than I did the grey. For me I think it was because having bay spots, if the white wasn't the crispest I could get it, it just looked dull next to the bright bay, but the gray, since her whole body was grey, if she was a little dusty or something it wasn't nearly as noticeable. 

That being said, I think you should discount color, and just look at training, experience, conformation, age etc., and then if you happen to have a couple that are very comparable but different colors, then you can look at color.


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## SketchedOut (Dec 18, 2013)

Thanks everyone for answering.
As a said before, I quite like greys and wouldn't mind owning one but it is my parents who I need to convince that greys are not too bad


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

I don't want one. I saw a grey horse at the vet school with the absolutely worst melanoma I have ever seen! 

I don't want to have an extra health problem to worry about! I worry enough about my horses as it is!

Plus, I like my horses clean. I have a paint and she is a big enough job to keep clean. A grey? No thank you. Although I did lease a grey percheron cross. He was such a nice horse. I loved him despite his weird quirks- he spooked at changes in pattern... If the fence ends and a hedge begins, if the lines on the pavement change... 

If I was horse shopping, I probably wouldn't want one, although I might consider it if the personality and conformation were right.


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## Regula (Jan 23, 2012)

Does anyone know whether there is a difference between breeds when it comes to melanomas? E.g. btw grey Arabs, Lippizaners and Percherons?

I know that with dogs, there are breed specific differences, e.g. blue Dobermans tend to have more problems related to the dilute color, while Weimaraners have practically no problems at all (despite the fact that they're all dilute)
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## JMaldaner (Mar 18, 2014)

*Regula* - can't say I have heard of a difference due to breed. My vet told me (as I assisted him in the removal of a melanoma from our horse) that there are two types of treys: those that have had a melanoma and those that will have a melanoma. That may be a bit extreme, but he was serious and did not mention any dependence on breed of horse.


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

If a grey is good enough for this guy, I'm







happy to ride one.


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

AnrewPL said:


> If a grey is good enough for this guy, I'm
> 
> 
> 
> ...


didn't work, it was meant to be Clint Eastwood from High Plains Drifter.


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

I love greys!! I used to have a grey Arabian, he went through a very pretty dappled phase. And, like others have said.... unless the grey has white markings, the skin on a grey is black, so they are no more prone to sunburn than any other horse. I hope your Dad changes his mind. 

Here is my gelding when he was dappling out... He wasn't difficult to keep clean at all, maybe I was just lucky, lol.


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## picup436 (Nov 22, 2012)

I love my grey mare, but my next horse is going to be dirt coloured! She's a grot and I am neurotic about her being clean when we are out in public (lessons, shows etc). 

I do have to be careful with her getting sunburned, so she wears a fly mask with a nose attachment and is rugged 24/7 during summer. 

Her clean



I don't have any of her dirty that I can share, but she likes mud. A lot. It takes me about an hour to 90 minutes to get her clean.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Picup, do you live in an area with red dirt? I've heard that not even the best of whitening soaps/shampoos can get the pink/orange stains out of white hair.

I'm lucky, my gray seems to basically repel dirt. He is generally a clean horse but even if he rolls in the middle of a mud puddle, I can brush most the dirt right off after he dries and I can count on one hand how many times he's come in with a stain that I had to shampoo to get out...and I've owned him for almost 10 years. I love him and he's my baby, but I would give my eyeteeth, my right arm, and my future firstborn child if he could have just been any _other _color LOL.

This is him at his nastiest. He had just rolled after I sprayed him down to cool him off in the heat of the summer









And this was taken a couple days later. I never even caught him, let alone took a brush to him.









And, no, that's not a stain on his face, that's his bloody shoulder marking.


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## picup436 (Nov 22, 2012)

Yep smrobs, red dirt paddock and pink river sand arena. Does my head in. Napisan and Sard wonder soap are always in my washing kit. If there were such a thing as a 100% cotton equine onesie she would be in it 24/7!!! 

I've noticed greys have their own peculiar smell when they are wet/sweaty. A bit like a wet chicken. Not pleasant at all.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

JMaldaner said:


> *Regula* - can't say I have heard of a difference due to breed. My vet told me (as I assisted him in the removal of a melanoma from our horse) that there are two types of treys: those that have had a melanoma and those that will have a melanoma. That may be a bit extreme, but he was serious and did not mention any dependence on breed of horse.


I think that the statement IS a bit extreme. I have owned, ridden, and shown numerous greys and the only one that had melanomas was the latest stallion I showed. He had very small ones that never needed removing and never spread.

Grey warmblood cross.....never had them



Grey stallion had a couple of tiny ones that never spread or grew.



grey warmblood.....never had them



Grey QH....never had them



Grey TB (with student) ....never had them



Two grey arab racehorses....never had them



Grey QH....never had them



Grey warmblood cross.....never had them



I could go on, but I have made my point. Some horses get them. I wouldn't let their being grey keep you from buying a horse on the fear that they may SOMEDAY get them. The biggest problem with greys is that their greatest desire in life is to be brown!!


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## Roux (Aug 23, 2013)

I've had two greys. One was a dapple grey and the other was fleabit. The dapple had a few melanomas that were never a problem and the other never had any problems. Neither were hard too keep clean - not any more than any other horse.

If I liked the horse then him being grey wouldn't keep me from a purchase.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I'm partial to grays as I've had good luck with them! 

My first gray was an Arabian gelding and he never showed any external melanomas at all. Not even one. I say external because he died of colic, and I will always wonder if he had a tumor or something internally, but on the outside he never had a single bump of any kind. (And I've also had two non-grays die of colic, so it likely wasn't anything to do with his color).

Second gray is my Fox Trotter mare. I adore her! Got her at age 15 and never saw a melanoma when I inspected her at purchase. Now, at age 20 I know of two. One is tiny, tiny, smaller than a bee-bee, on the bottom of her tail bone. The other is on the inside of her thigh near her udder. I only found that one because I was cleaning her udder. I keep an eye on it, it's about the size of my pinky fingernail. But at her age I would hope that she would live out the rest of her life without it having any of the melanomas cause her problems.

My third gray is her baby, and he's 3.5 years. He still looks like a bay horse from a distance and I really look forward to him graying out.......someday......hopefully while we are both still young, lol! I am putting in a request for dapples but I don't know if I will get them. :lol: He actually has the tiniest, tiniest little bump near his butt and I'm hoping that's not a melanoma because he's so young. But whatever it is, I am keeping an eye on it. And if it grows I will have the vet take a look at it and possibly remove it. Can't do anything about his color anyway, and right now it is the least of our worries. 

But I love grays. I think they are beautiful! And I hope to see my youngster go through a pretty dappled phase at some point.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

picup436 said:


> I've noticed greys have their own peculiar smell when they are wet/sweaty. A bit like a wet chicken. Not pleasant at all.


You know, my friend has a curly coated Fox Trotter and I think he smells like a wet dog when he sweats. He's a palomino so I doubt it's his color.

But my gray Fox Trotter mare (not a curly) smells just a tiny bit like him when she sweats, and they are the only two horses I've known to smell that way. So I was kind if thinking it was a Fox Trotter thing! 

I would be curious of other "curlies" also smell like wet dogs or if it's only him. Maybe some horses just have a stronger body odor than others, but it's not necessarily a gray horse trait as I've owned 3 grays and two smelled normal, and the gray mare just _slightly_ like a wet dog, but not as bad as the curly Fox Trotter who isn't a gray at all.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

PS. People only seem to think cancer is a gray horse thing, but I also had a Paint that had a lot of pink skin and he had cancer on his penis in his old age. Nobody really talks about that, but pink skinned horses like Paints are prone to cancer around their eyes and genitals. 

It's a different kind of cancer, but still a potential problem. But nobody ever says they will avoid spotted horses because of cancer. But they will avoid gray horses because of cancer. I think that's an interesting double standard. I guess because it's more well known that grays get melanomas than spotted horses getting carcinomas? But if you actually talk to vets and breeders and such, it is pretty well known that pink skinned horses get cancer. But the general horse owning public never seems to be preoccupied with it the way they are with grays. Why is that?


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

smrobs said:


> I have a gray horse and, if I can avoid it, I will never have another. I don't worry so much about keeping him clean but the melanoma thing really bothers me. My guy is 12 this year and he's already had 2 removed when he was 7 and he's got 7 more now that I need to have surgically removed. In all likelihood, due to how many he's gotten at such a young age, that probably means that his lifespan will be shorter than a non-gray counterpart. I pray I'm wrong, but I also need to prepare myself for the possibility.


Probably others have said this, I've not read everything in this thread yet, but I don't think grey horses' life spans are significantly shorter on average, if at all. Melanomas aren't such a big deal in horses compared to humans - often benign and encapsulated. While something like 80% of greys over 20 have them (if I remember the statistic correctly), the majority of those will die of unrelated things.

Some other thoughts for everyone:

Sun exposure appears to have little to do with melanoma in equines (but it's still a good idea to protect any unpigmented skin from sunburn, and usually the pink skin will be on the nose, also common in coloured horses with white markings on their faces).

Super veterinary article on equine melanomas here:

http://newscenter.equinesite.com/equ...-melanoma.html

Other colour horses than greys can get malignant cancers too. I personally wouldn't make that a purchase consideration. A horse of any colour can end up with a horrible disease. Or break its leg.

My grey Arabian mare developed melanomas under the tail aged 17 and is now 32. In that time two of them have gone from grape sized to plum sized. They don't seem to bother her. My commiserations to all of you who have had bad experiences with this kind of stuff. (But aren't you glad your horse had you to care for it?)


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

JMaldaner said:


> I have not heard of that vaccine. But, for our grey, who has had a melanoma, our vet prescribed one tab daily of Cimetidine, 800 mg. This is very inexpensive (especially if you get it via WalMart Pharmacy) and is easily crushed and added to his morning feed.


Hey JM, how interesting! Isn't that used to suppress acid production in the stomach, at least in humans? Do you know how this is supposed to help with melanomas? I mean, people use low-dose aspirin to reduce stroke... is this another off-label use?


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## SketchedOut (Dec 18, 2013)

When I do go look at a potential horse, if its a grey would it be a good idea to ask previous owner if it has ever had any issues with melanomas? Would that be a good indication of its risk of melanomas?


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

SO, over 80% of grey horses will get melanomas, but it's not going to kill most of them. It's not like human melanomas. More detail in posts already posted. If a horse has melanomas, you can usually find them if they're external. Look around the base and underside of the tail, under the tail, on the furless bits of the underside, etc. You can ask if any melanomas have been removed, but often vets won't remove them because they are frequently benign and encapsulated and a lower risk if left alone than chopped open (which can theoretically promote spreading).


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## JMaldaner (Mar 18, 2014)

SueC said:


> Hey JM, how interesting! Isn't that used to suppress acid production in the stomach, at least in humans? Do you know how this is supposed to help with melanomas? I mean, people use low-dose aspirin to reduce stroke... is this another off-label use?


You are exactly correct!! That is what our vet told us.


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## dressagebelle (May 13, 2009)

I've heard that there is a slightly higher risk of melanoma if both parents are grey (no idea if that's really true or not), and I've heard that while no studies have actually been done, that some breeds/bloodlines seem to be a bit more prone to melanomas, Thoroughbreds and Quarter Horses being the most common to end up with melanomas, Arabian's being one of the least common. Again, no science to back that up, but it was an article I read in a horse magazine a couple years ago. 

That being said, for me, melanomas wouldn't be a reason not to get a horse, unless the horse was very young, and they were already big and interfering with his/her ability to go to the bathroom etc. I would much rather deal with that than a paint horse with a big bald face, that needed constant care, and protection from the sun etc. But that's personal preference. I still stand by temperament, conformation, and training being the biggest things I would look for in a horse, and color would be last, and only looked at if there were a couple horses same price, temperament, etc, and I had to decide which one I wanted. Hopefully you can convince your parents that it's not a "death sentence", and that greys are perfectly good horses too, and not to rule them out.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

A good horse is always a good color. Greys show dirt, so the show ring thing makes them a little bit harder to groom.
Greys are prone to skin cancer and polyps, but I'd check with your Vet to get a good opinion about that. =D


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## Cynical25 (Mar 7, 2013)

I sold my gray mare at 28 years old and she'd never had a melanoma. Nor a sunburn (which couldn't be said of my predominately white Paint, unfortunately.) This gray mare also rolled less than my other horses, so there wasn't even more grooming involved, aside from a poop spot here and there that may not have shown as much on a brown horse.

Unless you're planning to show in a color breed association, selecting/bypassing purely for color doesn't make sense to me personally. I admit I have preferences that would influence my decision between two differently colored horses of the same caliber, but I won't skip looking at a potentially good horse purely because of color.


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

Interesting because of all the old horses I've had and met 95% of them were grey...

I would of course ask if the horse has had melanomas (and every other health issue from feet to gut), try and research the horses lineage and see if there is a pattern, their longevity, etc if possible.

My grey now LIVES to swim in the pond, so he's constantly muddy. But I've had three others who were impeccably clean and who doesn't love a healthy glowing dappled grey coat? My bays tended to look dirtier because I could always see the dust or dandruff, it doesn't show so bad with a grey.

I would look at behavior and training and suitability first, then color. Good luck!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ForeverSunRider (Jun 27, 2013)

We had a grey once (died of old age) and he was healthy as a...well, as a horse 

The only issues he had was he was a mean piece of work and he showed dirt like none other. He was a puppy dog for ground work but you had to stand his nose in a corner when you mounted and hope you found your seat before he was able to spin around and take off bucking.

And we had him checked - no pain anywhere, just a meanie butt  

The way I see it is this: Don't disregard a horse for his color. If he's the right horse, he's the right one. Wouldn't you rather have the right horse for you even if he has some medical issues than have the wrong horse for you?


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## SketchedOut (Dec 18, 2013)

Corporal said:


> A good horse is always a good color.


I thought the saying was 'A good horse is never a bad colour'? Or maybe it is different wherever you are


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## SketchedOut (Dec 18, 2013)

ForeverSunRider said:


> The way I see it is this: Don't disregard a horse for his color. If he's the right horse, he's the right one. Wouldn't you rather have the right horse for you even if he has some medical issues than have the wrong horse for you?


My dad has the opinion that there will always be another "right" horse for me so another one will come along which is a "better" colour, I'm not quite so sure about that...


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

SketchedOut said:


> My dad has the opinion that there will always be another "right" horse for me so another one will come along which is a "better" colour, I'm not quite so sure about that...


If you look long enough (years possibly) and/or have an unlimited budget on how much you spend... Most people who want to buy a horse don't always find several to choose from that fill all their criteria for what they want and color is the last thing to look at unless you are trying to get a matched set for pulling a wagon or something. Buyers have a price range of what they are willing to spend, preference on height, training, experience, health, condition, age and riding discipline. All are weighed and measured before looking at color, color is not nearly as important as the other considerations. Don't pass up the best horse for what you need just because it is the only color your parents don't like, the color will grow on them.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

FlyGap said:


> My grey now LIVES to swim in the pond, so he's constantly muddy._Posted via Mobile Device_


Wow FG, your horse dives into a pond and swims without human cajoling? As in, free-choice recreational swimming? Or am I reading this wrong? 

If that's indeed the case, a film would be great!!! :lol:


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## 1111aqua (Jul 25, 2008)

I have an absolute love for the color grey. Half my clothes, my car, and my horse are grey. I love the changes that occur every spring when she sheds out. It's exciting for me to see how light she is! I've never had to much of a problem with keeping my mare clean except during shows because I can't deny that everything shows up on a light horse! I've also never experienced any sunburns with her although she isn't white yet so it might come later. 

Some pictures of my mare over the years just because I think the change is awesome:

When I first bought my mare:


About a year and a half ago:


And now:


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