# 12YO Arab/Saddlebred Mare - Fitness, Hind End



## BreezylBeezyl (Mar 25, 2014)

*Additionally, these are more pictures of her from last summer: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-conformation-critique/arabian-saddlebred-conformation-issues-468490/*

Some of you may have stumbled across photos of my mare before, but every time I look at her I become incredibly confused about her level of fitness and her capabilities conformation-wise. This confusion has increased the more I have seen her work.

Because this 900lb part-Arabian Saddlebred mare hauls butt and works hard. When I bought her, I was quite skeptical about her abilities since she appeared to need to gain quite a bit of muscle before becoming a sport horse again, specifically in her hindquarters. But since I've owned her, I have put her to the test in several different sports:
- speed events (barrels and poles)
- western pleasure
- hunter under saddle
- show jumping
- moderately difficult trail riding

I recently took her to the Alberta Sandhills where she had to climb 80 degree hills. I was terrified looking up at them, afraid that her weak hind end wouldn't be able to handle this. At the time, my boyfriend was riding my instructor's seasoned go-to mountain horse; a younger 16hh, apple-bottom Paint/Quarter Horse in his prime... and my 12 year old mare left him in the dust ascending a steep 1km hill of sand. I had to wait a good few minutes at the top for him and the rest of the riders. Four days of intense trail riding, and she barely broke a sweat.

Maybe it's the Arab in her, built for endurance? But she can handle a lot, even though it may not look it physically. This is a horse who never seems to tire, and is always able to do the work asked of her... But I always tell people how unfit she is.

What do you conformation experts think? *I realize these are not good quality confo pics, but I'm really only looking for opinions on her hind end.*

She appears to have long hip - usually favoured in sport horses. But is it also the reason her hindquarters do not seem appropriately muscled? I really struggle with building muscle in this area. Most Saddlebreds and Arabs tend to have a flatter croup and shorter hip but she does not.

She also has a really strong, sloping shoulder. A Saddlebred trait. It may help compensate as well...?

I am so confused. I feel like my horse should not be able to do half the stuff she does, as well as she does. I want to start eventing within the next year, and have doubts as to whether she can handle it just looking at her... But I've always had doubts and she has always proven me wrong.


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## Whimsy12 (Jun 9, 2015)

It depends on what you mean by 'good hindquarters'. They are not, obviously, as muscled as a TB or a QH, but they're nice for her breed.

Hills will build and strengthen those hindquarters. My TWH was a little thin and weak in the hindquarters. I did hills and gaiting, freely and collected, and they are much better. You would never known.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Very nice horse. Hills and backing her. Yes. On a lead. Backward walking will build rear end muscles.


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## BreezylBeezyl (Mar 25, 2014)

What if you live in the prairies of Alberta and have no hills? Legitimate question!


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Walking in reverse. Backing up.. will build rear end.


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## HombresArablegacy (Oct 12, 2013)

She's very nice looking! And she has heart, a lot of heart that comes from her Arabian side. Don't discount her abilities, as it sounds like she does everything you ask of her. Just keep conditioning her and challenging her mind so she doesn't get bored.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

I think you need to stop expecting her hindquarters (or really, any part of her) to look like a stock horse's. No matter what you do or how much you work her (hills or otherwise), you are not going to change her muscle type.

Arabs have more slow-twitch (type i) muscle fibers, which are long and flat. Stock-types generally have more fast-twitch (type ii) muscle fibers, which are shorter and fatter. You mare is not unfit, as your hill-climbing adventure shows. Your mare simply is never going to have the apple-butt of a fast-twitch muscled horse.


This is a picture of one of our Arab geldings, during the hold of a 100 mile endurance ride. Notice his hindquarters look a lot like your mare's: 












Even our other gelding, who is a pretty heavy muscled for an Arab, still doesn't have the apple butt of a stock horse (he is also 100 mile fit in this pic):











I think your mare is lovely and you should just keep doing what you are doing!


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## BreezylBeezyl (Mar 25, 2014)

Thanks everyone. The reason I worry so much about her hind end is because she has a noticeable hunter's bump due to a lack of topline, which you can see when evaluating her hind end. Being an Arab/Ssaddlebred she travels pretty hollow in the field, only really using herself properly while being ridden. She has a high neck carriage because of her breed.

I've attached pictures of her back from last summer. You can clearly see the spine protruding all the way to the tail, so lack of muscle in the HQ and topline. Since I've had her we have worked on it, but only for about the last 3-4 months.

:neutral: To be honest, I think she looks pretty good in pictures from the side, but not the top.

(FYI, she is resting a leg in the last picture)


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

WillowNightwind said:


> What if you live in the prairies of Alberta and have no hills? Legitimate question!


Yes, that would be my problem too, living on this big sandbar called Florida.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

You have a pretty nice mare. She looks fit to me.


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## meganm21146 (Jun 6, 2014)

Wow she is absolutely gorgeous! I'm not an expert but she looks fit to me. Like phamtomhorse13 said, she will never have the bubble butt look of a stock breed, but that doesn't mean she can't be a wonderful, capable partner.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

She is fine. She is what she is (and that is very nice!) you are expecting her to have a different conformation and that won't change.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

That 'peaky' hunters bump look to her SI area will be related to her being light in the hind quarters, but not necessarily *because* of lack of muscle. It's probably more likely the lack of muscle is because there's something wrong there. Good on you for taking notice of it! Whether it's treatable or not's another issue. I'd get a good chiropractic vet come check her out & advise.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Hmm I think that's more her conformation then *necessarily* a sign of an issue..


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

I disagree, if you're talking innate, natural 'conformation'. May or may not be fixable(it _can_ be fixed, even in mature horses), but hunters bump does appear to indicate a problem, according to bodyworkers & anatomists.


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## BreezylBeezyl (Mar 25, 2014)

loosie said:


> I disagree, if you're talking innate, natural 'conformation'. May or may not be fixable(it _can_ be fixed, even in mature horses), but hunters bump does appear to indicate a problem, according to bodyworkers & anatomists.


My only argument against this is her spine shows all the way from withers to tailbone. I think your theory would make more sense if she JUST had a hunter's bump, but her entire back is incredibly bony.

You will understand me when I tell you I hardly ever, ever ride her bareback :lol:

I've always wanted to get a chiro out to see her for evaluation, just because. I will definitely look into it in the future, if just for the experience.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Why does the fact that her whole top line is atrophied make you think there's no body issue causing it?? I don't get that. 

Of course lack of topline could be unrelated to the SI problem. Could well be saddle fit. But who knows. I've known quite a number of horses who have had extremely good(almost miraculous according to some) results from a good vet chiro or cranio sacral treatment. 2 of my own horses are counted among them.

My current riding horse has always had a slight hunters bump - since he was a 2yo, but he wasn't started, and his unbroken mother had it too when I got them. So in their case at least, the birthing trauma theory makes sense, as it was nothing to do with work/riding injury. My boy has always also had a weakish topline. With my young kids, too little time, he's never been fit & I've been told it's just that. Then I had a vet chiro out to see him(he was about 10yo by then), and within 2 treatments, without fitness work(well, I do some when I can, but...), he suddenly, for the first time in his life, had a peachy bum & level back!!! He was also way more comfortable bareback. 

Ffwd to recently & a new saddle(thought it fit very well, but it's CAIR panels... hmmm...) and he became obviously uncomfortable with me riding, his topline disappeared again, he was uncomfortable to ride bareback(for me cos he's bony, and for him) and his 'hunters bump' reappeared! :-( Cranio sacral treatment, no riding for a couple of weeks and ditching the new saddle got him back into relative shape. I've since tried another Wintec, exactly the same bar the CAIR & it *appears* to be OK. I have booked the chiro for another 'overhaul' too...


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