# Sire or dame , which is most important ?



## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

This is more of a shopping than breeding question but it does pertain to breeding .
Traits and bloodlines. I know some cultures tracked mares while other stallions.
In breeding does one parent determine traits more than the other ?
IE in a breed cross, will a colt be a mix or be more like sire or more like dame ?


----------



## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

I think that the personality will be a lot like the dam because they essentially raise the horse. However, some lines are known for "stamping" offspring.
For example my horse is out of a Come Back II mare (known to be a hot line and the mare is very hot, and big/tall) but by Rotspon (known to be totally cool headed and small and the R line stamps). He will sometimes get fizzy but for the most part is totally cool about everything just like his dad. He also looks almost exactly like his dad. He wears a 76/78 which is an R line thing (the size) where as his mum is an 82. But he has I think a better ability to "lock on" to something from the dam line, he has a lot of focus. And from the dam he is a very very good herd leader, very bold and brave.
His half sister, by a less stamped line is a spitting image of her mother in temperament and looks, but the addition of the sire line improved on the dressage ability.

So, it depends but I think that the dam line is more important than the sire line, in general. A good mare will produce a good horse when bred to a good stallion regardless while a so so mare will produce decent horses only when paired with a stallion who really stamps his offspring in a good way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

depends, some stallions "stamp" their babies to have more of their own traits while other stallions don't contribute a lot and their foals look more like the dams.


----------



## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Most experienced breeders, myself included, know that, in general, the dam has more influence than the sire. Although the overall ramifications are not yet known, the fact that the mtDNA comes from the dam is at least part of the reason.

However, that doesn't account for prepotence, which, again, is still a bit of an unknown. Some bloodlines are far more prepotent than others, so sires can exert more influence if their lines are more dominant.

My advice is to study the prepotency of the bloodlines with the understanding that the dam's influence tends to be somewhat higher than the sire's...


----------



## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

ok makes sense, so playing law of averages, an Arab mare TB sire, would more likely produce a more Arab like offspring than a TB mare X Arab stud.


----------



## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Joe4d said:


> ok makes sense, so playing law of averages, an Arab mare TB sire, would more likely produce a more Arab like offspring than a TB mare X Arab stud.


Probably, but again much depends upon prepotency. TB's are of primarily Arab origin, so on paper the cross makes sense, but honestly I wouldn't recommend it in your case. If memory serves me correctly, your discipline is endurance. Remember that TB's have been bred to be overspecialized. Ask yourself if you want to use a cross where one of the breeds has a current history of fragile bones, joints, and hooves. If you only do flat work on dirt that cross may be OK, and it is certainly OK for dressage type events, but I wouldn't recommend it if you plan to do any endurance in moderate or rugged terrain. That doesn't mean no TB/Arab cross can do rugged endurance, but it is not a direction I would go in myself...the risk of injury and breakdown is just too high. I think half Arabs are the best endurance/trail horses there are in more rugged terrain, but I prefer to cross the Arabs with Appys or Quarterhorses (with the proper fast/slow twitch muscle composition), resulting in endurance with power, and sound bones, joints, and hooves. Just my opinion, of course...


----------



## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

I concur, full would be best , hard to find a big one though, and TB and TB crosses are coming out of the woodwork in my area. Pretty much every where.


----------



## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Yeah, you are in TB country. One of my favorite drives, although it is northwest of you quite a bit, is from Charlottesville to Culpepper...some beautiful horse farms there. It would take a powerball lottery to buy one, though...


----------



## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

Ive always wondered where the heck those people work. No industry anywhere, but giant beautiful houses and barns.


----------



## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

I believe the mare is the most important due to the fact that most foals will adapt to their dam's attitude since they're with them every day. The sire does have contributions but you should look the mare to see if she should even be bred in the first place. With some mares, you'll get lucky the stallion adds his good traits verses some bad mares.


----------



## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

It's both. Most successful breeders will breed horses with the traits they want to another horse with traits they want. In cross breeding you'll look to avoid stallions or mares that have undesirable traits even if they have some you want, because you'll always have a 50/50 chance of it being passed on.
Check out both the stallion and the mare and give the same weight to both.

That's why developing a "breed" takes so long. There's a fair ammount of culling that goes on in the beginning to remove horses that might have something unwanted out of the gene pool during the developement.
Of course the problem becomes when what the breeders (new breeds and especially older ones) want is so specific and for a money driven industry that they'll keep breeding for the desired traits and not worry about some others that would normally be less desirable (especially if one was at the expense of the other). TB are a good example of the latter. Todays TB are generally faster, but not as sturdy as the TB of 300 years ago.

Nothing is certain. My older mare looks a lot like her father, but has more of her mother's personality, height and lead mare attitude. My younger mare took absolutely nothing from her mother and with the exception of her star, strip and snip is virtually a carbon copy of her father in every way.
It's important to see what you want in both parents.


----------



## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

its lbs not miles said:


> In cross breeding you'll look to avoid stallions or mares that have undesirable traits...


That depends upon what the undesirable traits are. Particularly in the case of breeding half-Arabs, you don't necessarily want the overly typey Arabs that are overbred for Arab traits. Often, if not most of the time, the best Arabs for crossing have "undesirable traits" as far as Arab folks go, but they really have nothing to do with soundness or good basic conformation. A heavier Arab that has a bit more fast twitch muscle thus is less smooth and refined looking may not meet Arab aesthetic standards, but be a far better horse to use as a cross than the classic type.

However you are correct - you certainly don't want undesirable traits that affect soundness or the performance ability of the cross you wish to create. The biggest problem I have seen over the years with half-Arabs is sometimes a person knowledgeable in Quarterhorses or Appys will not have knowledge of Arabs, and will choose "any old Arab" to use as a sire or dam. With cross breeding, it is, IMO, even more important to wisely select breeding stock than it is breeding purebreds. I have done both, and to me breeding crosses (successfully) takes much more research and thought...


----------



## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Joe i have a 15.2 hh arab gelding that is a prue blood. He is half spainish and half polish weighs about 1100 pounds. If I didnt live so far away I would say come out and try him. I would make you a good deal. He was given to me to settle a debt. Lots of spirit and get up and go. i am sending him to the trainers this month.
I agree with Faceman most foals do inherit more of the dams temperament than the sires.
If you want a foal to inherit certain qualities then you need to look for an stallion or mare that is line or inbred for those traits. That is the most certain way to pass on the qualities that you desire. good luck in your search. Shalom


----------



## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

In actuality ,not breeding anything, SO attitude would be judged by the horse I am actually looking at. With decent enduracne stock nearly nonesistent in my area. I am gonna end up traveling. So just trying to gain as many tidbits of info as I can,,, I know whay you mean about Arabian type. Pretty much anytime we get shows involved the breeds get screwed up.


----------



## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

Man, I need to stop posting while drinking Angry Orchard Cider. My spelling is terrible.


----------

