# I'm devastated. Red is seriously injured AGAIN. **graphic**



## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

I really don't know what I do to deserve this. 

Red has managed to severely cut his back left leg again, almost in the exact same spot as he did in January of 2013. I am just sick. Absolutely sick. This danged horse is so accident prone I don't know what else I can do. I try so hard to take excellent care of my horses. They have regular vet visits, teeth, chiro, saddles that fit perfect, and the whole nine yards. He has a laundry list of health problems and he's a walking vet bill. I feel so defeated and so frustrated. 

Makes matters worse that I have two horses and now neither of them are sound to ride. What the hell?

And makes matters worse that it was NBHA district finals coming up just next week. We were in the running to win the year-end (and a saddle) on our division. I was also going to go to state finals for the first time in a couple weeks. 

There go those dreams down the toilet. 

Ugg. I am just so sad and so frustrated. 

Well here starts the _long_ journey to recovery. _Again._ Dammit Red! 



This is how I found him. I just checked on him the night before (and he was fine) and it looked pretty fresh, so it must have happened just a few hours prior to me finding him. Never did find where he hurt himself. My BO walked the whole fenceline and I did too myself later that afternoon. Couldn't find anything. Based on the injury, my vet and I think that he must have gotten caught in the smooth wire somewhere.



















I kinda tried to hose it off a little bit to see it better. But I was already going to be heading to the vet by this point. 










After the vet got it cleaned up. Yes, that is *BONE* that you can see there. 










It's a long shot but the vet stitched the flap back on. She really doubts that the tissue is going to live but on the very small chance that it does, we are going to greatly reduce the healing time. I figured it was worth a try. We should know in about 7 to 10 days if the tissue is dying, and it just needs to be cut off anyway. 










Bandaged up and ready to go home.


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## 40232 (Jan 10, 2013)

I'll send healing thoughts your way!


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## 3rdTimestheCharm (Jan 18, 2015)

I hope he heals up quickly! It sounds like he's in great hands! =)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

I am SO sorry!! Do the points track the horse, or rider? Maybe you can lease a horse for the finals.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

That stinks. What is his prognosis as far as soundness? It sounds like he has done this sort of thing before to himself? Is the fence electric or flagged in some way so he knows where it is? Is it possible that he is fence fighting/kicking through the fence. Its injuries like this that make you think of wrapping them in foam and making them wear helmets all the time….


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

So sorry to see this. Healing thoughts your way.


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## HombresArablegacy (Oct 12, 2013)

Wow, Red really did a number on his leg. So sorry for both of you, hope the healing goes well, but it's going to take a while.

My neighbors have used high tensile wire fencing for years, their last mare had an injury almost identical to Reds. Took it six months to heal and that was just the wound. She had gotten her leg caught at the fence where the tension stretchers are. She ended up sound by constantly running the fence line. 

They finally put up a strand of hot wire a few months back to keep their horses from rolling into the fence. 

Sure hope all goes well for you and Red. Keep us updated on his injury. 

Sorry for your troubles.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WendyJane (Jul 11, 2015)

Poor boy! I hope he heals quickly and keeps out of trouble from now on.


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## gssw5 (Jul 30, 2013)

So sorry for your poor horse. 

Your not alone, my horse is also accident prone. He pretty much did the same thing back in December, it is finally almost healed.

I hope it heals well.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I'm very, very sorry to see that! It must be a horrible feeling. You do your best, but horses can be like kids and find a way to hurt themselves. I hope his recovery is swift.


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

So VERY sorry to see this.. you guys have worked so hard this season. Just goes to show no matter how careful you are, some horses will still find a way.

Vibes for quick, smooth healing and a full return to soundness!


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Awww Beau, I'm so sorry for you and Red!!! 
You guys have come a long ways and been through a lot.

Hoping for a smooth recovery although it will be long next couple months of bandage changes. Went through the exact same with Hooey. I am sympathetic!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Teller (Jul 30, 2015)

i'm so sorry, you must be devastated I would be too. Poor baby.. I hope he heals well...


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

it hurts just to look at those photos! i hope that at the least the healing goes textbook smooth


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

He certainly did a number on himself! I'll keep thinking good thoughts for at least some of that skin to make it. If nothing else, at least it's a 'natural bandage' for a little bit to help it heal more quickly.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Sending you fast, healing vibes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

I know my words pale in comparison to the situation, but I am so sorry for you and your horse.

I hope the healing goes smooth.


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## Kay Armstrong (Jun 28, 2015)

watching for updates...what did the vet have to say?


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

Aw that stinks! I hope he recovers. Talk to your BO about putting electric wire around the fence?
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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

I didn't specifically ask the vet but provided he heals without problems he should be sound. It is promising that he will walk on it and he actually trotted to me when I found him that way in the pasture. 

The tendons medial and lateral (?) are affected but she is not concerned and said even if they sever them, they can grow back fine. 

The bone was a little roughed up but not bad. Possible he could develop stringhalt or that a piece of the bone could die and then become a "foreign object" to the body. 

I changed the bandage tonight and he fought me to get the ointment on and the initial pad, but then he stood like an angel for me to finish. I couldn't believe it. I have to change it everyday for the first week, and watch that flap she sewed bank on in case it starts to die (which is likely).

Ugg. So much work ahead of me. 

Never did find what he injured himself on. I looked and the BO looked and neither of us could find anything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Just FYI, when he did this injury the first time, that place I was at at the time DID have the fence electrified. Yet he still hurt himself. Electric won't prevent it either unfortunately.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## greenhaven (Jun 7, 2014)

Ugh, I just lost my whole reply! Have not read all the replies yet but wanted to encourage you by telling of a friend of mine with a horse who had a very, very similar would, even down to bone, and healed up perfectly sound. The flap ofskin fidget said would eventually have to be removed even reattached! I can put you together with her,.she is marvelous and would love to talk about her experience. Just let me know. I can also pm you some progress pictures if you like.

I am sorry, even if he heals up perfectly it will still take time and it is tough to be horseless when you are a competitor.


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## greenhaven (Jun 7, 2014)

P.S., my friends horse also injured herself just as she was healing up from another traumatic injury; she nearly severed her heel bulb. Horse is sound once again, so there is hope.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Poor boy, Sending Healing thoughts


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

Oh No. 

So sorry to hear this, got a sick feeling in my stomach looking at the pics.

He can heal well in the long run I'm sure. Poor Red, and it will be a rough week ahead for you, also. 

My Daughter's Appendix gelding was out for 2 years with a serious injury ahead of each season. The third year she made it to State Fair, and won the Class Champion in 16yr old Equitation with him.

Hoping all is well that ends well for you, too.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

So sorry about your horse injuring himself and putting an end to your racing season. Years ago hubby's TB did the same thing and it healed with just a thin hairless scar running down the center of his cannon bone. No permanent lameness or out of control proud flesh so I hope your experience with it is the same.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Oh, poor Red...and poor you :hug:

Have you ever thought to try raw honey? I've heard it works wonders.
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-health/phoenix-had-accident-graphic-contents-66017/


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## MsCuriosity (Apr 20, 2015)

OMG... poor Red. Poor you. :-( 

My mare did something similar when I was a teen. There was a storm that must have spooked her and she tried to jump the fence. With us, it was the front leg. Good news is that she recovered well and was not permanently affected.

Sending get well wishes your way.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Please watch for changes in the bone color or actual look of the bone. We have taken care of many injuries like this, most heal well, but one did end up with bone death which took another surgery to get it out. Horse eventually ended up sound. Good luck to you


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

I am sorry this has happened a second time. 

Is this horse pastured in High Tensile smooth wire? This injury is consistent with that and, if so, then this will happen again and again. 

This is why they say it is dangerous to keep horses in smooth wire high tensile fences that were designed for cattle. Maybe time to relocate the horse or rebuild the fences. 

I hope he heals quickly and you find a better arrangement for keeping him (pipe or board fences etc.).


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## oakenspoon (Aug 14, 2015)

I hope he heals quickly and smoothly, prayers sent


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

wyominggrandma said:


> Please watch for changes in the bone color or actual look of the bone. We have taken care of many injuries like this, most heal well, but one did end up with bone death which took another surgery to get it out. Horse eventually ended up sound. Good luck to you


Yup, the vet mentioned this possible complication. She could feel that the bone was roughed up a little bit but it wasn't bad, so hopefully that will not happen. 

She stressed making sure that I keep the bone MOIST. I am a little uneasy about my wrapping job last night as he did not like me putting Fura-zone on the wound, so I hope I got enough on it. I'll be re-doing the bandage tonight anyway, so I hope that portion goes better. 

Still can't believe he stood like an angle for me to finish wrapping, once I got the wound covered. I am crossing my fingers that continues. 



Elana said:


> Is this horse pastured in High Tensile smooth wire? This injury is consistent with that and, if so, then this will happen again and again.


No, it is not high tensile smooth wire.


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## greenhaven (Jun 7, 2014)

Hopefully you can still read the testimonial words she included with these photos, the results are just amazing! This is a horse and a person I know personally.

Here are the words in case they are too small to read: "On December 23rd 2014 Mosely received a pasture injury to her left hind leg, peeling her flesh down to the bone. After the vet came and decided against stitching, we went with a "wet wrap" approach, spraying Purishield wound spray directly to her injury, as well as spraying it on her wound dressing. Besides a penicillin course, Purishield was the only product I used on my mare. The pictures speak for themselves!"

She did tell me she forgot the Purishield in the house one night when she went to the barn so was lazy and just slapped some furazone on it one night.

The vet fully expected to have to cut off that flap of "skin bandage" and friend almost did, but she is very glad she didn't. It never did die. This is a HUGE deal.


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

Awww  I hate seeing this! Poor guy.....

I second the raw honey, I've seen pictures of horses with gaping chest wounds with a huge flap of skin and the owner used honey and just hosed 1-2x a day and applied unpasteurized honey, didn't get it stitched and it re-attatched itself. 

Some horses just like to hurt themselves, others are a walking miracle.
A month ago, a little storm rolled through in the afternoon and Squig decided she needed to tear the corral apart, broke a 2x8 apart, ripped the spikes out of the posts, and bent the daylights out of wire panel, it took two of us to bend it back. She suffered a missing patch of hair on her back leg. Walking miracle lol


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## greenhaven (Jun 7, 2014)

P.S. I just want to clarify that I am not trying to sell you on the Purshield although I have used it myself and it is a great product, I just offered that as hope and encouragement. Hang on to that flap of skin as long as possible, might just be pleasantly surprised.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

greenhaven said:


> P.S. I just want to clarify that I am not trying to sell you on the Purshield although I have used it myself and it is a great product, I just offered that as hope and encouragement. Hang on to that flap of skin as long as possible, might just be pleasantly surprised.


It is encouraging to hear of another story where the skin flap "made it"! Gosh I sure hope so.


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## wbwks (Apr 5, 2014)

I had a mare that had a similar injury but it was in the trailer, she was in stall #1 that has a stud divider. She did "whatever" and got her rear leg under the stud wall and ripped the flesh down just like your boy. 

Best of luck!


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

wbwks said:


> I had a mare that had a similar injury but it was in the trailer, she was in stall #1 that has a stud divider. She did "whatever" and got her rear leg under the stud wall and ripped the flesh down just like your boy.
> 
> Best of luck!


Wow, I have a friend whose mare did the same thing.......twice! She somehow went down in the trailer, with stud divider, and got an identical gash on her leg from her leg going under the divider. Both times she healed up sound and was fine to go back to riding again. The second time it happened I was there......we put my horse in the trailer and when we arrived at the trail head the there was blood everywhere and the gash on her horse was down to the bone. It was horrible. I thought it might have been a life-threatening injury but she healed up fine.

I also know of someone else's horse who stuck it's leg through the stud divider (weak weld I guess) and had to be put down. I am beginning to think those stud dividers do more harm that good. I don't own a stud and never will.......but if I did, I think he needs the trailer all to himself because with those dividers you risk loosing the horse. :sad:


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Well I am happy to report he was a complete angel last night. He didn't move while it cut the bandage off (he didn't like that so much the first night). And he only moved "a little" when I put initial pad on the wound and then he stood really, really nice. I was very pleased. I hope that continues.

I can tell he's getting a little "_stall crazy_" but I don't blame him for that. He already has a jolly ball and I have another toy on the way, for him to maybe keep occupied in his stall. In the evening, I hand graze him to let him get out of the stall for a while and get some greens. 

So far, wound seems to be looking good.


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

beau159 said:


> I can tell he's getting a little "_stall crazy_" but I don't blame him for that. He already has a jolly ball and I have another toy on the way, for him to maybe keep occupied in his stall. In the evening, I hand graze him to let him get out of the stall for a while and get some greens.


You may want to try him on a bit of raspberry leaf (aka, mare magic) and magnesium see if that helps take the edge off. We used that on a gelding who had to be stalled for 8 weeks while recovering from an eye injury and if def helped.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

phantomhorse13 said:


> You may want to try him on a bit of raspberry leaf (aka, mare magic) and magnesium see if that helps take the edge off. We used that on a gelding who had to be stalled for 8 weeks while recovering from an eye injury and if def helped.


I guess I'd be afraid he wouldn't eat it. :icon_rolleyes: He's kind of a picky eater. I'm having to load his anti-biotic into a syringe and give it to him orally, because he won't eat that either. 

My internet is being stupid right now, but I was going to try to see if SmartPak has samples I could try first, before buying a bunch of it.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Do you have a food co-op or health food store near you? All the ones near me sell raspberry leaves in the bulk bins (near the loose spices or loose tea). I buy a paper bag full (like the size you'd take to school for lunch) for about $4, and it will last a month or so- my mare gets about 1 tbs of it twice a day. I sometimes buy a 1lb bag for about $20 as a special order through my co-op and that lasts for months. 

This is what I order, looks like you can get it through Amazon if you don't have a local food co-op: http://www.amazon.com/Frontier-Raspberry-Certified-Organic-Ounce/dp/B001VNGO9G

I haven't looked in awhile, but I think this is much cheaper than buying a supplement from a place like SmartPak.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

beau159 said:


> I guess I'd be afraid he wouldn't eat it. :icon_rolleyes: He's kind of a picky eater. I'm having to load his anti-biotic into a syringe and give it to him orally, because he won't eat that either.
> 
> My internet is being stupid right now, but I was going to try to see if SmartPak has samples I could try first, before buying a bunch of it.


They have it, and you may be able to get a sample sent to you. Call them via phone


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Well update. 

The wound itself (where the bone was exposed) is looking good and filling in nicely. But as we had expected, the skin flap is not surviving. It is slowly disintegrating. I have an appointment with my vet on Friday to have it rechecked and remove what we need to. Dang.

Day 3











Day 6






















Day 8 (where it started to go downhill)











And last night, Day 8


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

How's Red doing? One of my young horses did much the same as Red- I thought you might like to hear what we did - he recovered well, ending with just a line scar.

Firstly - We kept him in a confined area for 6 weeks - minimising the movement meant the skin wasn't constantly being stretched. He coped well after an initial tantrum. Lots of quality meadow hay, no hard feed or grains.

I bought a 4litre pump spray (the sort used for spraying roses with) - Sterilise the container by pouring boiling water in, clean out then make up Saline solution, 1 heaped teaspoon salt to 1pint of water. This saline was used to wash the wound daily, meaning no possibly grubby fingers touched the wound. It was sprayed until all guck was gone.

Next the wound was dressed with Activated Manuka Honey spread on a babies disposable diaper, sticky tapes were great fro keeping it in place and as mine was injured just below the hock I could prevent the dressing sliding down.

Next a layer of gamgee and then wrapped with elasticated bandage. 

This dressing was changed daily and the area flushed with saline.

Eventually proud flesh developed - which though unsightly is good as it brings massive blood supply to the wound to help it heal.

Once there was a reasonable amount of proud flesh the treatment with the honey was stopped and the wound now treated to reduce the proud flesh.

his was done using a saturated solution of Copper Sulphate. Keep dissolving the Copper Sulphate in some sterile water until no more will dissolve.

Flush wound with saline and allow to air dry. Around the injury on the healthy skin apply a good layer of Vaseline (Petroleum Jelly) this is to protect healthy skin from the caustic Copper Sulphate. 

Then using a clean soft paintbrush carefully dab the Copper Sulphate mix all over the proud flesh. Replace all dressings.

Next day, gently flush off the crusted Copper Sulphate and layer of proud flesh.

Repeat until the proud flesh is level with the outer wound area. Each time the proud flesh grows, repeat the Copper Sulphate treatment.

Each day you will notice the wound area becoming smaller. Proud Flesh has no nerves in it which is why you can apply the caustic Copper Sulphate, some vets will use a scalpel blade to remove the proud flesh, I don't like that as I don't think the final outcome is as clean.

Below are the photos of my horses wounds

Day 1









Day 2 - the white area is tendon damage









After 1 week - proud flesh beginning to form - the bright red area









After 2 weeks - proud flesh ready to be treated









After 4 weeks - wound becoming smaller









Week 6 now only needing one treatment a week with Copper Sulphate









Week 8 and back in work


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

So sorry to see that Beau.
If it helps any, maybe I can shed some light. Einstein and one sister did a similar job on a back leg, but not quite as bad.
What they did , I found out, was to itch their rear on that smooth wire, and while doing so, stick a back leg through, then panic and pull.
(Einstein actually did it on a barb wire fence.,which was way back in our wood lot, and that we did not immediately replace when we moved here.
I know how you feel, as I had that sister of Einstein;s entered in the Canadian National App show and had to scratch.
If it helps any, both healed and I fixed the problem , both by removing the bottom wire in all fields and making the top one hot.
I actually caught Einstein's sister int he act, but too late to grab her and prevent that panicked pull. She was literally leaning on that wire, rubbing her rear back and forth, and stuck one back foot through


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

If you get bored beau159 and want a read.
Same injury and also dealt with a bone sequestration. I too will give a thumbs up for the Manuka honey, medical grade.

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hooeys-injury-progression-*graphic*-439642/page2/


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Because of the location, I find it hard to imagine a horse getting a cut like that, from a high tensile wire, if that fence is hot
Yes, they might still run through it, but unless he jumped and caught that back leg, the common scenario is for horses rubbing their rear and accidentally sticking back leg through, then pulling
Are you sure that fence was always hot and checked, at the place he did it the first time? Horses won't rub on a hot fence!
Far as high tensile wire, I have not had a problem ever since I bought good fencers, and that top wire is attached with insulators, not solid staples.
I also only use two wires, with the bottom one a few feet off the ground, and not the four strands used for cattle
Had one horse , new to the place, run through the fence , and that just popped some insulators off-no damage to the horse.

Oh, and another treatment option that worked really well for me, tot he point only a hair line scar was left -is to cut off the flap ( Had hubby hold a twitch, and I used a sterilized hoof knife ) and then I treated that wound every day with cut heal, washing the area every third day. No wrapping, as it will have the wound head from the inside out, prevents any proud flesh.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

A friend of mines filly really tore herself up. 290 stitches and the flap of skin stilled died. After that, she used Bev's magic salve and it healed up pretty quickly with no proud flesh and only a trace of a scar. Everything filled in beautifully. You might want to look into it. I have used valarian root with great success for calming horses.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

This was after the stitching but the flap didn't survive and everything was exposed. Now you can hardly tell the injury was even there.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

Smilie, you were lucky with the high tensile wire as its notoriously risky for horses as it stretches rather than breaks. No 8 wire is the safest for horses, breaks under stress rather than cutting.

Contrary to what you think proud flesh is reduced by bandaging, and large wounds need the proud flesh to feed the repairing wound. Also wounds heal better from the inside out if covered and kept moist. Cuts that dry out tend to heal poorly and scar.

The sort of injury red has is quite easily caused by a leg being put through the fence and if done accidentally through a hot wire could have easily snatched the leg back in a hurry, as high tensile stretches it would have come with him, cutting deep into the leg before freeing the leg. 

I have also seen and had to cut free a horse that got caught up in high tensile wire outrigger, rolled too close to the fence, leg up in the air caught the wire, horse then rolled and struggled and ended up trussed like a chicken in the wire - which hadn't broken. If it had been soft wire it would have broken.

Cowchick77 I use ordinary off the supermarket shelf Manuka Honey with no problems, medical grade is far too expensive. If you buy honey sourced and packaged in New Zealand it will be clean as. Been using it for more than a decade


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Oh my goodness, all these ouchie horses ): You're in my thoughts, beau...


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

*Tnavas: *Thank you for the detailed post. 

One thing I will comment on since you talk alot about flushing the wound daily in your post, is that my vet has thoroughly instructed me (this time and last time) that once granulation tissue forms, to NOT wash the wound if you do not have to. Washing (with anything) is manual stimulation to the wound that will stimulate proud flesh. 

She's a newer vet and up-to-date on the newest things so I trust her when she tells me that. 



Smilie said:


> So sorry to see that Beau.
> If it helps any, maybe I can shed some light. Einstein and one sister did a similar job on a back leg, but not quite as bad.
> What they did , I found out, was to itch their rear on that smooth wire, and while doing so, stick a back leg through, then panic and pull.
> (Einstein actually did it on a barb wire fence.,which was way back in our wood lot, and that we did not immediately replace when we moved here.
> ...


My suspicion is that he was standing with his butt to the fence, and kicked out or stomped at a fly. The flies had gotten REALLY bad with the recent heat wave. My guess is that is what he did. 

The first time he did this, at a different location, I can assure you the fences were always HOT and were in top repair. The husband of the couple that owned the place was a retired engineer. My God, even the sliding stall doors were _perfectly in level_. Perfect. That place was impeccable. 

They had 4 strands smooth wire. (at the first location) I don't know the technical term but it's not high tensile. It's got two strands twisted around each other, like this:









This is the same type of wire at the current place. A few strands are barbed, but most of it is smooth. 3 of the 4 sides of the pasture Red was in at the time had 4 strands. One short side only had 3 strands. 

At the old place, they had the top wire hot and the 3rd wire hot. It was the 3rd wire he got himself into, b/c we did find the spot when it happened there. 

So yes, they will still get into a fence, even if it's hot wire. 

We suspect he was playing when he did it the first time, as my two horses often play, and just got too close to the fence. It was the dead of winter (January) so he wasn't kicking at flies. 

Side note: At the current time now, my other horse is hurt and my parents are keeping him, so he's with another boarder's young horse ... who Red does not like and lets him know it. :wink: He doesn't chase him or anything to that degree, but he pins his ears when he gets too close and the other horse gets out of the way. So I highly doubt they were playing, as he doesn't like him!! But maybe Red kicked at him and got the fence instead; who knows. I've never seen Red kick at him but doesn't mean it couldn't happen. 

At the location I am at now, they have two mini's that rotate into different pastures, so I certainly do not expect them to remove the bottom wire from their property, or else they wouldn't be able to keep the mini's in.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

Hi beau159 - I must admit I am pretty ancient and learnt my vet care decades ago - my vet also looked after the queens horses so was pretty good at his job.

I keep up with modern methods but sometimes question the methods used - for example the trend these days is to clean and wrap a wound and leave the dressing on for a week. All very well until your horse develops blood poisoning because the wound is infected and then has to be put to sleep.

The injury I posted happened to me at the home of the rider leasing him. I suggested she bring him to me as I had the facilities to care for him. He arrived 24hours after the injury happened, 12 hours after the vet treated him. The couple of wraps of bandage were in the wound, wrinkled and with a small pad that had worked its way into the wound - an equine vet!

The bandaging should have covered the whole leg! What if there had been swelling. The horse was in pain as you can imagine with a piece of vet wrap cutting into his wound.

After cutting off the bandage the wound was not touched by human hands until it came to putting on the vaseline.

Discuss with her the reason why she didn't want proud flesh - its 'the plaster cast' for an open wound - it supplies masses of healing blood and helps protect the wound as it heals from the outside edge inwards.

Any wound needs to be kept clean as possible and by flushing with the saline any discharge from the wound is flushed away. A wound cannot heal if there is pus present.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Tnavas said:


> I keep up with modern methods but sometimes question the methods used - for example the trend these days is to clean and wrap a wound and leave the dressing on for a week. All very well until your horse develops blood poisoning because the wound is infected and then has to be put to sleep.


:eek_color:

I don't know ANY vets that would recommend that. 

My vet would never recommend that. Very maximum is 3 days, and that is only if the wound is not draining and is in "good standing" to allow you to do that. She usually says every day, or maybe every 2 days if things are going well.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

beau159 said:


> :eek_color:
> 
> I don't know ANY vets that would recommend that.
> 
> My vet would never recommend that. Very maximum is 3 days, and that is only if the wound is not draining and is in "good standing" to allow you to do that. She usually says every day, or maybe every 2 days if things are going well.


It was the last time that vet went anywhere near my horses. But it's not the first time I've come across this, seen the same at one of the racing yards I worked in, it was gross when bandage came off.

Me, depending on the condition of the wound, dressings get changed twice daily, or maybe once if wound really clean


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Well, I would really be afraid of that wire, Beau, esp the way it is attached (staples nailed in solid) those' babies', are not going to give!
Unless you have foals, there is no need for more than two strands of wire, and the bottom one should be at least two feet off the ground.
It is that bottom wire that horses either stick a front foot through, pawing or get a back foot hung up in.
I have two strands of smooth wire, with the top being hot, and that top wire is run through insulators. If something hit s that top wire, the wire pops out of those insulators-God knows, as I have had to put wire back up, sometimes for half a field length, after a moose goes through!
I guess, having had fences that had to be hot,year round, owning stallions, I would need to test that wire, esp in winter, to be sure it remained hot. Call me a doubting Thomas!
Most horses, where the fence is always hot, really respect fences. In fact, I use portable fencing , to limit amount of pasture in the summer, using those step in white temporary plastic posts and white electric tape. First year that rope gates were used in trail, and one show had a white rope being used, I could not get my good trail horse up to the gate! It was like, 'are you kidding"!
At any rate, having three to four strands of wire, stapled in solid, with horses across the fence from each other, is an accident waiting to happen, JMO
Hope Red heals fast and without a problem
I have healed several wounds like that, left open, using cut heal, not all from fences. One happened on the edge of a' trough' (a substitute for areal trough, we had in one corral) It had places on each end where a hinge used to be, and was never a problem, until one yearling, hard to catch, tried to jump it, and cut a flap on the inside of a hind leg


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Smilie said:


> Well, I would really be afraid of that wire, Beau, esp the way it is attached (staples nailed in solid) those' babies', are not going to give!


That is not a picture of the fence where I board. I pulled it off of Google to show an example of the type of wire. 



Smilie said:


> Most horses, where the fence is always hot, really respect fences. In fact, I use portable fencing , to limit amount of pasture in the summer, using those step in white temporary plastic posts and white electric tape. First year that rope gates were used in trail, and one show had a white rope being used, I could not get my good trail horse up to the gate! It was like, 'are you kidding"!


Red, and my other horse, absolutely respect hot fences. I do just as you described when I have to overnight them somewhere. I have little step-in posts and electric fence tape that I set up. I don't even have to turn it on. They stay away from it. 

Maybe if if I built one so I could practice it would be better, but it's pretty much a given that Red does NOT like rope gates for trail classes. He knows he needs to stay away from electric fence and that's exactly what those rope gates look like. I strongly dislike them for that reason and wish they'd use a real gate. Never are you going to open a gate like that in real life, and they can use other obstacles in the course to prove you have good control over your horse. I digress....

But a horse respecting hot fences, still won't prevent accidents from happening, as Red has so eloquently proved. 

Come to think of it, when my mother's horse Misty hurt herself on the fence, ALL the fences on the property were hot. My parents have cattle and the horses are simply rotated where the cattle are not (cattle come first) so everything is barbed. But hot, so the cattle won't reach through the fence and stretch it. She still got into it to, in a 40 acre pasture. Hers was also her back left leg.




Smilie said:


> I have healed several wounds like that, left open, using cut heal,


With an injury with the bone exposed, I was not going to leave it open. The bone can't dry out.

Also with the flies as bad as they are in the heat of late summer (supposed to hit 100 today), also not a good idea to leave it open. Pretty sure one or two of them are even inside Red's bandage that I re-did last night. Couldn't even get the ******s to MOVE when I was bandaging it up. They are just _insane_ right now.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Wire fence is probably how your horse got hurt. I agree 100%. Could have just rolled close to the fence and got a leg over.. panicked and jumped up.. degloving the leg. 

A LOT of horses are kept in wire fences for years with no issues. A lot of others get injured. Your horse probably needs a pipe fence or wood (tho wood is not full proof either). 

As to Smilie's comment regarding hot wire giving and coming off the insulators, yes.. it will do that but that is not safe either. I have seen a horse end up with the wire encircling a hind leg pastern and with a nasty wire cut all the way around. If not found in time, that horse would have lost circulation and the foot (which I have also seen) had have to be put down. 

All that is water under the bridge. Your horse is hurt and I hope healing is working well!!! Keeping the bone moist is imperative. 

Just find a different fence to turn him out in when he is better because he clearly cannot be kept in wire.


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

Smilie said:


> , there is no need for more than two strands of wire, and the bottom one should be at least two feet off the ground.
> It is that bottom wire that horses either stick a front foot through, pawing or get a back foot hung up in.
> I have two strands of smooth wire, with the top being hot, and that top wire is run through insulators....Most horses, where the fence is always hot, really respect fences.


My guy would raise hell at your place.  He is doubting thomas too, and tests to check if fences are still hot daily, if not and the wire is loose and the grass is greener, he puts his head under the top wire and slides himself between the strands (smooth wire, barbed, doesn't seem to matter to him, he's slipped though both unscathed). Or, if the bottom was 2 feet off the ground, he just puts his head under the lower and tries to wrench the whole thing up. He never *goes* anywhere when he has escaped thankfully, but he checks fence to make sure it is both hot and tight for you. He'll also shimmy under hitching rails if unsupervised and that's the 'gate' out. He's 15.1, so it's quite a feat.

I watched him put his front foot through and pull on the lower strands of the smooth wire 5 strand pastures he's been in most recently. Stood there calm as you please, put his leg all the way though and then caught the wire on the back of his fetlock and pulled a few times, testing each of the lower wires. Apparently he figured they're tight enough, because he lifted his leg up and back out of the fence and went back to grazing like "nothing to see here, folks, don't mind me."

It's not any given fence material that is a problem and it's not any particular horse IMO. Some are savvy and some aren't and accidents happen.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Elana said:


> A LOT of horses are kept in wire fences for years with no issues. A lot of others get injured. Your horse probably needs a pipe fence or wood (tho wood is not full proof either).


Pipe fence is not injury proof either. :wink:

I've seen horses kick a pipe, either playing or kicking at another horse, and they end up capping a hock, bruising a foot/leg, scuffing off some skin, etc. Or step a leg through and bang up their knee. Etc. 

Maybe I can put Red in a giant horse-hamster-ball and that might keep him safe, haha.


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## tinaev (Dec 2, 2012)

Wow, what a shocking injury. Poor guy! I hope he heals up very quickly for you.


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

Well, I just thought I'd drop in to say that I can empathize with some of what you're going through. My 5 yr gelding managed a similar injury yesterday. >_< His is not quite as severe I think (not down to the bone)... but it definitely will take some time to mend.

Here's a couple of photos from yesterday, one taken upon discovery and the other after the vet treated it. Similar to your vet, we're trying to save as much tissue as possible, but there's a decent chance that some of it won't make it. I won't hijack your thread any further -- just wanted to say that I know some of the feels, and they definitely aren't the best.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Eolith, 
do you know how he did it? your place is pretty clean.


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

tinyliny said:


> Eolith,
> do you know how he did it? your place is pretty clean.


There are some cables in the stall runs meant to stabilize the fence posts since they're on a slope. He got his leg caught in it. I hadn't even paid them much attention beforehand. Naturally, I'm kicking myself now -- but on the flip side I'm not sure what to do about it. I think that the fence does need the support of those cables, but they sure aren't horse friendly. At the very least, they are behind hot string. Actually, now that I think of it... maybe we could put some type of plastic pipe over the cables. It would have to be a material that wouldn't splinter under stress though, because that could only make things worse!

Here's a photo that shows one of the cables (intact). It runs diagonally from the bottom of the fence post on the left, to the top of the fence post on the right. If you sort of look just beyond that stall run, you can see some of the hot string and such strewn about from Aurelio's mishap in the next run over. We haven't gotten around to cleaning up/making repairs just yet, since he is locked in his stall for at least two weeks anyway.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

Eolith said:


> Well, I just thought I'd drop in to say that I can empathize with some of what you're going through. My 5 yr gelding managed a similar injury yesterday. >_< His is not quite as severe I think (not down to the bone)... but it definitely will take some time to mend.
> 
> Here's a couple of photos from yesterday, one taken upon discovery and the other after the vet treated it. Similar to your vet, we're trying to save as much tissue as possible, but there's a decent chance that some of it won't make it. I won't hijack your thread any further -- just wanted to say that I know some of the feels, and they definitely aren't the best.


Have a look at the post I put up earlier in this thread re a similar size injury my youngster had. the final scar is now just a line


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## BiologyBrain (Jul 9, 2015)

Eolith said:


> There are some cables in the stall runs meant to stabilize the fence posts since they're on a slope. He got his leg caught in it. I hadn't even paid them much attention beforehand. Naturally, I'm kicking myself now -- but on the flip side I'm not sure what to do about it. I think that the fence does need the support of those cables, but they sure aren't horse friendly. At the very least, they are behind hot string. Actually, now that I think of it... maybe we could put some type of plastic pipe over the cables. It would have to be a material that wouldn't splinter under stress though, because that could only make things worse!


Garden hose perhaps? Fairly cheap, flexible, & soft enough to not wound your horse as badly as the regular cables.


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

BiologyBrain said:


> Garden hose perhaps? Fairly cheap, flexible, & soft enough to not wound your horse as badly as the regular cables.


That's a fantastic idea! Thanks!


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

BiologyBrain said:


> Garden hose perhaps? Fairly cheap, flexible, & soft enough to not wound your horse as badly as the regular cables.


One show I go to where my horse is yarded in a temporary pen has barbed wire running along the top of one side, I bought swim noodles, sliced them along one side and dropped them over the wire and held in place with some electrical tape.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Well even though the flap didn't make it, I am happy with the progress. 

Had a little "trimming" at the vet on Day 13. This picture is from the next day, Day 14. 











I'm amazed at how quickly everything has filled in. 

I will be watching the spot over the bone very closely though. It seems to have opened up a little bit again, since that photo. Need to make sure a piece of the bone didn't die or break off, which will not let the wound heal in that spot if it does.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

So glad to hear he's making positive progress!
Keep us updated <3


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

Looking good. Well done.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

Fwiw, I saw a pony a few years ago with a very similar injury (perhaps worse, actually) that made a full recovery short of a bit of a bald spot where the injury was. This pony is now back to being a full time schoolie with no ill effects and is happy as could be.


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## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

Wow! I'm so sorry! What I would do is give him this http://www.amazon.com/Boiron-Homeop...e=UTF8&qid=1441823277&sr=1-13&keywords=Arnica, Amazon.com: Vetericyn Plus All Animal Wound & Skin Care 4oz: Pet Supplies and http://www.amazon.com/FARNAM-45404-...UTF8&qid=1441823631&sr=1-1&keywords=aloe+heal.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Figured it was time for an update. These pictures are from 34 days after the initial injury. Things are progressing well, but slowly of course.


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## deb9017 (Aug 4, 2014)

Looking MUCH better!


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## my horse (May 23, 2013)

So sorry. =( But glad to see its' looking way better!!!!


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

I see my thread is pretty old but I think it would be neat for an update. 

We're over 5 months from the original injury, which was Aug. 22, 2015. I took these pictures last weekend. It was warm enough in the North Dakota winter that I took the opportunity to wash his leg/wound up nicely because it was all gunked up from months of using ointment during the winter. I am pleased with how it is looking. 

Amazing how loooooong it takes this stuff to heal!


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## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

Beau- I didn't read the whole thread, but how are you treating it, and with what?


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Smilie said:


> Well, I would really be afraid of that wire, Beau, esp the way it is attached (staples nailed in solid) those' babies', are not going to give!
> Unless you have foals, there is no need for more than two strands of wire, and the bottom one should be at least two feet off the ground.
> It is that bottom wire that horses either stick a front foot through, pawing or get a back foot hung up in.
> I have two strands of smooth wire, with the top being hot, and that top wire is run through insulators. If something hit s that top wire, the wire pops out of those insulators-God knows, as I have had to put wire back up, sometimes for half a field length, after a moose goes through!
> ...


I would Love to be able to only have 2 strands of hot wire but I have a mare that is a houdini and can't stand to be in a fence. She could get out through 4 strand electric and 2 strand barbed wire (6 strands total) fence. whereas my mustang will stay in a one strand electric,


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

jenkat86 said:


> Beau- I didn't read the whole thread, but how are you treating it, and with what?


Currently? Or before?

Started off with two months of stall rest, and bandaging. (And 2 weeks of powdered antibiotic, twice a day) I used nitrofurazone ointment for most of that time until it ran out, then switched to silver sulfadiazine. I used either ProudsOff or hydrocortisone cream as needed to control any areas of "proud flesh".

I did cold hosing only for about a week, because by then the granulation tissue had filled in. (Cold hosing beyond that will "stimulate" proud flesh growth.)

After two months, I turned him out into the pasture and stopped bandaging but continued to put on an ointment every day. I would kind of alternate between a few of them. Mostly my goal was to keep the wound moist. 

I think it was the beginning of November when I took him down to my parents' place for the winter. My mother would put on some ointment for me every few days.

However, it's probably been about 2 to 3 weeks since she put any ointment on it at all. And we're going to continue NOT applying anything for right now because it looks really good. I'm sure he's going to have a scar, but I think it will shrink a little more before that happens. 

His leg has been rather swollen most of the winter but it was looking really good that I was down for a visit last time. His last wound took quite a while before it wasn't swollen anymore so I'm not as concerned about that. 

He's on pasture 24/7 so he's getting plenty of moving around for circulation. 

I'm pregnant anyway right now (26 weeks this week) so I won't exactly be riding any time soon anyway. He'll have plenty of time to finish healing up. 

Vet will be seeing him at the end of this month, to get his teeth checked, sheath cleaned, and vacinations. The "usual" stuff.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I didn't know you were pregnant~! congratulations. when is baby due? do you know the gender?


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## goneriding (Jun 6, 2011)

beau159 said:


> I see my thread is pretty old but I think it would be neat for an update.
> 
> We're over 5 months from the original injury, which was Aug. 22, 2015. I took these pictures last weekend. It was warm enough in the North Dakota winter that I took the opportunity to wash his leg/wound up nicely because it was all gunked up from months of using ointment during the winter. I am pleased with how it is looking.
> 
> Amazing how loooooong it takes this stuff to heal!


It's not the "best" area for a wound either, minimal flesh and a lot of movement. I just saw his last injury…..holy cow! Try and get rid of the smooth wire if indeed that was the cause.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> I didn't know you were pregnant~! congratulations. when is baby due? do you know the gender?



Thanks!

Baby due June 6th. 

It's a girl. So we'll have a future barrel racing rodeo princess on our hands. :loveshower: inkunicorn:

Yeah when I look at the timeline, Red got hurt 2 weeks after when they officially start counting the pregnancy weeks. Red's leg is 28 weeks along and I'm 26 weeks along, haha. So I suppose him getting hurt was "good timing" because (1) I don't ride much in the winter anyway (2) he has more than plenty of time to heal. I plan on pretty much giving him the whole year off. It'll do the rest of his body ailments good to have a year off from running barrels. 

I expect him fiesty and ready to get back at it next year!

Although, how much he has calmed down in recent years really amazes me. He might be just right to tote the future daughter around.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Wow, read the update and had to go back and read the posts from the start. Some of those pictures were hard to look at!

So 1 - congrats on the pregnancy! A daughter is so much fun! 

2 - thanks so much for posting this. I am now better prepared for the eventuality that this might happen to Harley or to my next horse. I did have a dog glove a leg once, but yikes! This is scary.

3 - thanks to everyone for sharing their experience and recommendations on fencing, etc. I will now be carefully researching fences before building mine in the spring! I never thought of the fact that a low wire could be so dangerous. Lots to consider here... and will be looking at all the spaces my horses will be using much more critically. 

This is the type of post that can be really beneficial to the community.


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## aggielady (Aug 14, 2015)

You were kind enough to offer advice on my lameness situation and I saw this and wanted to offer helpful thoughts as well!

While I have limited knowledge on soundness, I do have experience with severe bloody gashes and injuries. One morning, I found my 22 year old gelding with a gash between his thigh and gaskin. There was a massive pool of blood and he was in so much pain he was shaking all over.
It was 6 inches across, nearly 2 INCHES deep and had a 4+ inch flap of very thick skin and muscle dangling 2 days before Christmas while I was 5 months pregnant.

The pictures looked VERY similar to yours in type and severity. I called the vet and they were totally booked up for the Christmas rush and had no way of fitting me in. I have never given an IV shot or dealt with anything of this magnitude before and was FLIPPING OUT to say the least. They had me come get supplies and walked me through the whole process of cleaning, treating and bandaging. 

To say I had no faith in myself was an understatement. They told me I the flap would likely die and have to be cut off, but to try to lift it up to bandage it anyway.

Long story short, I did exactly as I was told, doctored the wound several times a day as needed and over time it healed. He never had stitches but the flap reattached and healed. He only had a 6 inch line where the top of the flap re-attached. He had no lameness, and no permanent damage from the wound, even though he never did see a vet. 

I hope you find this encouraging and hope your Red heals with the same results! Hang in there!


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Congrats on the baby girl!!! I am so happy for you!!!


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