# How hard is it to crack it as an equine photographer?



## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Any feedback? Ive just recently decided that I will be persuing equine photography and videography as a side career. I do video work full time so I guess you could say thats a perk that I have over other equine photographers.

Ive heard stories about how its very difficult industry to have success at and it can be exhausting and gruelling.

I used to do wedding photography many years ago before getting out of it and I will only do it for friends and family now. I know all about how exhausting wedding photography is

Anyone here know anyone who persued equine photography? I no longer have interest in shooting weddings and Im all about the equines now.


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## horseylover1_1 (Feb 13, 2008)

My husband does freelancing photography for a living. I feel like equine photography could be a successful business if marketed correctly, but there is not a whole lot of demand for it (you will almost never hear of someone saying I need a professional photographer to takes pictures of my horse - at least in my area.) 

You could think out of the box though. Offer photography to people on EquineNow and Craigslist that have their horses for sale. Tell them that professional photography will help sell the horse faster and probably for more $$. Go to local shows and see if they'll let you do "free" coverage of the show and sell the pics to the riders later. Just like people want sports pics of their kids that play soccer, football, etc, horse parents all would like a nice pic of their kid with their favorite horse(s). You could take pics of "random" horses and try to sell them as fine art for the home and calendars, like Bob Langrish does, but that truly is a very difficult industry to compete with.


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

Only person I know who does equine photography is actually a sports / events photographer.  He is set up a trail ride I've attended frequently. HE shoots photos as you ride by and calls out a number. You use that number to look up your photos on his bank of computers back in camp. He usually has 15, or 20 of each rider. If you like one or more of them you can buy them. You pay on the spot and he sends you an e-mail attachment. But the horses seem to be a minor aspect of his business.


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## edf (Dec 20, 2013)

As an artist here: my best advice other than what others mentioned-which I love BTW- don't just limit yourself to horses! While it may be your passion and you may focus on it and try out what others stated- I'd look into photographing other things like beautiful landscapes, other animals, maybe get into macro- close up of flowers and such. Build up a portfolio. Definitely have an equine portfolio, but also prove you have photograph other things too.

You can have a website where your prints are for sale, available for commissions and personal photoshoots.

I understand there are things you may not be interested in photographing anymore, like weddings. But in the end, money is money. If you do a shoot that isn't equine- it will give you experience as a commissioned photographer, give you a reference, and money to persue your equine photography/hobby. But if you hate weddings, don't do it. But I just woudn't limit yourself to just horses. I have seen some breathtaking pictures of scenery in woods, boats at sunset and waterfalls. Beautiful horse pics def steal my heart, but a stunning photo of anything done just right is a work of art as well.

You could enter your photography in art shows, gets your name out there and all.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

@Hoofpic in my area there is not a large demand for equine photographers. We are a rural area with only small local horse shows and many riders are trail riders and do not show. There have been photographers at some of the sponsored trail rides we have done and I do purchase pics from them - they usually run $5 - $10 per photo. 

It may be a good side business but I do not think it would generate a large income and I think the photographer would have to be willing to give up their weekends to do events.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

A REALLY good photographer is in demand and frequently booked for months in advance. Most, even though good, aren't in real high demand and work primary jobs as their main income source. When you're this good:







you have it made. People pay to fly you to their farms for shoots and you can charge astronomical prices for your pics. Otherwise, you're lucky to get local horse shows to book you.


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## PaisleysMom (Feb 22, 2017)

I think it's possible to have a little part time thing going for it - but it would probably be very difficult to have an equine-only photography business. There are a few sports equine photographer groups that come to shows but these groups have a contract with the show as the designated photographer - so other people can't come in, take pics, and sell them to the competitors too. I've only ever bought my show pics once and it was $150 for about 14 pictures. I only did it because they all ended up looking fantastic - most of the other shows either my face looks insane or it's an awkward angle for my horse and I hate them. 

So if shows/events is something you would like to photograph, maybe check out some local shows that might not have a photographer and offer your services to the show. The show would not pay you but if you can get some networking to competitors they might. 

A friend of mine used to blast that she would be photographing at a show (without an official event photographer, and permission from the show officials) and if you wanted pictures to tell her your class numbers and your show number/horse description and she would do pictures of that specific rider for a fee. She'd charge like $30 per rider and usually got about 8-10 people so it was a good little side thing to do on a weekend (they would just get a disc and could do what they wanted with the images). Being an official event photographer though would be much harder going solo if you wanted to get images of all of the competitors, plus sort them out so they could see their pics.

If you're talking photography in a sense of sessions and posed pictures, I think limiting to horses would really limit your business. You might have some good connections at local barns and facilities but I don't think it's really something you would be getting a ton of repeat business regularly. I've done pictures with myself and my horse before, and then did a session for my engagement with my husband (which was mostly pics of myself and my husband around the farm and a few with the horse).

Everyone is a photographer these days! So many people have fancy cameras and high-tech phones they can take great pictures themselves too, so I think that is working against a lot of professionals! When I was at Rolex KY this year I swear I saw more amateur photographers than professional ones - the entire row of people (actually - like 15 teenagers) each had a fancy camera and was taking pictures.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Thanks everyone for the feedback. There are some great suggestions made for me like offering to take photos of horses for sale or at shows and events to get my name out there.

I am going to a show this weekend and will be taking photos for fun. It's at a fairly large event who is now putting on their 35th annual show, so perhaps afterwards I can offer them a bunch of my photos for free, just to get my name out there. 

One thing's forsure is that I will need to come up with a small list on how to get my name out there. I may have to do a bunch of unpaid voluntary jobs to achieve this. Short term reward, long term gain.You have to give up something, to get something.

I agree that equine photography is a very niche market with no a lot of demand. Unless of course you are Shelley Paulson who travels from city to city, state to state doing this. But honestly, she is the most amazing equine photographer I have ever seen. She is amazing. When your photos are constantly getting bought by publishers and getting printed in horse magazines and books, you know you are in demand.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

edf said:


> As an artist here: my best advice other than what others mentioned-which I love BTW- don't just limit yourself to horses! While it may be your passion and you may focus on it and try out what others stated- I'd look into photographing other things like beautiful landscapes, other animals, maybe get into macro- close up of flowers and such. Build up a portfolio. Definitely have an equine portfolio, but also prove you have photograph other things too.
> 
> .


And see this is where I'm going to have to open up and it may be a challenge simply cause I don't have hoards of time throughout the week. 

For the past couple evenings, after the barn, I went to a couple lakes around my house to take pictures. I can't say that it excited me all that much lol but I sucked it up and still took photos. 

Horses, animals and people are easily my favourite things to photograph. That also includes in events, shows, special occasions (excluding weddings).

I very much enjoy looking at macro photography, but don't have any interest in it. Taking pics of bugs and leaves just don't do anything for me. Same with landscapes, street and astro photography. I admire looking at nice shots, but can't get into them.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

PaisleysMom said:


> Everyone is a photographer these days! So many people have fancy cameras and high-tech phones they can take great pictures themselves too, so I think that is working against a lot of professionals! When I was at Rolex KY this year I swear I saw more amateur photographers than professional ones - the entire row of people (actually - like 15 teenagers) each had a fancy camera and was taking pictures.


But it's not about the camera, it's the person behind it using it is what counts. That is why so many amateurs (and families too) run out and blow money on a nice DSLR, thinking that it will make their photos better. WRONG. They can't be anymore wrong. You can have a top of the line FF (full frame) camera with a $3000 pro lens on the body and if the person using it has no clue what so ever on photography, how exposure works, composition, the rule of thirds, lighting, the fundamentals of the big 3 factors of photography, and how they all tie in together and cohesively factor one another, then the final product will not be good. 

A better camera does not result in better photographs, but rather better knowledge behind the camera results in better photographs. Now of course there is a fine line there and there has to be balance between the two factors, no point giving a pro an outdated camera as they will be limited by the camera itself, but you get my point. 

Flip a coin and give a smartphone to a pro photographer and they will get images out of that thing like you've never seen before. There is so much more to photography than just pointing and shooting and this is where many amateurs tend to lack knowledge simply because they believe that it's the camera that makes good photos. Not their own knowledge by reading books, watching endless Youtube videos, studying other's photos, learning from pros, sharing your work with pros for evaluation, etc. I can watch and observe someone taking photos and get a pretty accurate feeling of how much knowledge they have in photography simply by watching them.

When I take photos, (depending on the situation) I can take a lot longer than the average person, but that is because I study my shot and surroundings and happenings before taking it. Quality>Quantity. But I also can be really quick when I get in the groove, all depends on what I am shooting, the environment, how much experience I have in that kind of setting, etc.

Another ability (and one that tends to get greatly overlooked in the industry) is the ability to post edit photos. Post editing photos is just as important as taking the photos itself. This is where I feel I have an advantage and selling point over other photographers. I have the eye to give photographs several unique looks, how to give a photograph more feeling, change the mood and take photos to the next level. I can take bad photographs and make something out of nothing. Not everyone has this ability. I like my photographs to stand out, not just mesh in with the crowd. I want that WOW factor.

I've seen so many photographs in my lifetime that I've seen so many great photos but they just don't wow me simply cause they look flat and can look that much better through the power of post editing. Post edit is an incredibly powerful tool and that's why for many photographers, most of their work is spent on the computer in post and not behind the camera taking photos. I know when I used to do wedding photography, most of my time was spent in post. I love doing post, I just find it so incredibly fun and engaging and it excites me. The amount of options that is given to you from where you take a photograph right off the camera to the final product is endless. It's all in the persons ability and creative mind.

There are a lot of photographers out there (or should I say more so hobbyists), who don't get me wrong, take great photos, but when I see their final post edited images, they can look that much better if that person had more ability in knowing how to post edit and take images to the next level. Post editing photos is a valuable skill to have, not everyone who takes photos has it.


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## jgnmoose (May 27, 2015)

Check out Terri Cage, North Texas Equine Photography and Senior Portraits

I think your success might be very dependent on location. In N. Texas you would probably never run out of work. You could probably make a career just out of doing portrait sessions with people and their horses. 

I wouldn't imagine the same kind of opportunity in say, Fargo North Dakota. I saw maybe 20 horses total between Park Rapids Minnesota and the airport in Fargo. I see that many going to get a six pack of beer at the corner store here in Weatherford TX. Know what I mean?

Having experience as a wedding photographer is a strength for sure.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

jgnmoose said:


> Check out Terri Cage, North Texas Equine Photography and Senior Portraits
> 
> I think your success might be very dependent on location. In N. Texas you would probably never run out of work. You could probably make a career just out of doing portrait sessions with people and their horses.
> 
> ...


Thanks.

I think the market here in Alberta is fairly big as Alberta is a horse province here in Canada. From my experience going to these horse shows and expos, there are a good amount of equine photographers in my city, and some who will pay for a booth at these expos to get exposure (I would like to eventually do this, depending on costs of course). The question is, how many people and horse owners are willing to pay a professional to take their photos. It all depends on how much owners value the quality of their photographs. If all they take is selfies and that's all they want, then an equine photographer doesn't appeal to them at all.


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## jgnmoose (May 27, 2015)

Hoofpic said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I think the market here in Alberta is fairly big as Alberta is a horse province here in Canada. From my experience going to these horse shows and expos, there are a good amount of equine photographers in my city, and some who will pay for a booth at these expos to get exposure (I would like to eventually do this, depending on costs of course). The question is, how many people and horse owners are willing to pay a professional to take their photos. It all depends on how much owners value the quality of their photographs. If all they take is selfies and that's all they want, then an equine photographer doesn't appeal to them at all.


You might consider giving Terri a call and see if she has any input on it. As far as I am aware photographing horses at horse shows and things of that kind are most of her business. 

Good luck!


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

jgnmoose said:


> You might consider giving Terri a call and see if she has any input on it. As far as I am aware photographing horses at horse shows and things of that kind are most of her business.
> 
> Good luck!


Good idea, thanks. Terri sounds great. I'd love to learn from the pros but honestly, the day classes here, Im not willing to pay $600-800 for one day, I believe in my capability and that I am able to learn myself.


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## tinaev (Dec 2, 2012)

A lot of it is going to depend on the socio-economic level of where you're trying to do business along with how many horse events and horse families you have local to you. I am a photographer (primarily weddings and portraits) and I live in a horse heavy area. However, this is also a very poor area. So consequently I asked asked a lot to do equine portraiture but very rarely actually get hired once they see my prices. My prices are laughably low when you consider what a big city photographer would charge. But for the people in my area, it's just not something they're willing to invest in pro photographer prices for.

The only really successful equine photographers I have met are those that go all over the state shooting shows and endurance rides.


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## dulisaylcor (Jun 1, 2017)

I agree that you should make an equine portfolio with all your photos. When I compete, many times there's a photographer who takes photos of each rider and then uploads it on Facebook, maybe you could try doing that and then people at the shows will get to know you a bit more and might book you for a photoshoot of their horse when they want one. Also, you could do the same but when you upload the photo write your name on it and if the riders want the name taken off the photo they need to buy it.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

In the U.K. Those that do general equine photography at shows have digital cameras, screens to see what has been taken and the equipment to print there and then. Quite a costly set up.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> A REALLY good photographer is in demand and frequently booked for months in advance. Most, even though good, aren't in real high demand and work primary jobs as their main income source. When you're this good:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Quite honestly I do not think that is anywhere near to coming close to being classed as a 'good' photograph. 

The background is terrible, the horse is divided by a post and a tree, and the railings also take away from a decent picture.


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## horseylover1_1 (Feb 13, 2008)

You should post pics of your work, @Hoofpic , would love to see it!


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Hoofpic said:


> I am going to a show this weekend and will be taking photos for fun. It's at a fairly large event who is now putting on their 35th annual show, so perhaps afterwards *I can offer them a bunch of my photos for free*, just to get my name out there.


I have mixed feelings on this. If you initially give away your photos for free, how will people associate VALUE with what you are doing?

Your name will still get out there. But I would not offer them for free if you are wanting to make money on this down the road. 

I am learning some photography myself. So I enjoy messing around taking photos at the shows I go to myself, and learning. I don't ever want to be a professional photographer so I will never take a fee for sharing my pictures. So I don't care if any "value" is associated with mine.

But if you want to make this a 2nd job, so to speak, I would not give your product away for free in the beginning. Pretty sure that's a marketing "rule". ;-)

Think of any other scenario. If a new coffee shop opens up. If a new doctor starts practicing. If a new clothing store opens. Would any of these places GIVE AWAY their services or products for FREE to get their name out there? Nope. Again, build value from the very beginning. You get people to come back to you by being happy with their purchase or experience -- not by getting something for free.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

horseylover1_1 said:


> You should post pics of your work, @Hoofpic , would love to see it!


Sure, well here is my most recent from yesterday in the country side.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)




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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

I really liked most of them! Where do you take the pictures? It seems like you have a nice herd with a lot of cute youngsters to take pictures of! You should start an album with your pictures!


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Looking at those pictures from a professional point of view - and I am no pro photographer - not one of them would I consider paying for 

They are nothing more than snapshots rather then good pictures. 

I am not trying to be mean or critical just I had a pro photographer work with me and she was super critical and taught me to be the same. 

My nephew is semi professional with his photography and I ordered a landscape picture he had taken. When it arrived it was printed darker than I had seen it on my PC and I made him send it back the printers then lightened it way to light so back it went again. (This was a large picture) People will pay good money for great pictures, the photographer has to have developed a good eye, be aware of the surroundings, no good taking a picture of a dark horse on a dark background as with the first picture. 

To get good pictures of horses loose can take hours, thankfully with digital hundreds can be taken at no cost other than time.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

JoBlueQuarter said:


> I really liked most of them! Where do you take the pictures? It seems like you have a nice herd with a lot of cute youngsters to take pictures of! You should start an album with your pictures!


Thanks. Well it depends but yesterday I took those pictures out in Sundre AB along the wild horse reserve. Its almost a 3 hour drive from home. Remember those photos last October that I took of the sunsets? That was where I was yesterday, just further up the road.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Well I don't see my photos as "snapshots, but I appreciate the input. Ive observed and learned from professional photographers when I was younger and no I dont consider myself a pro (far from it), I know what makes a good photo and what makes a crappy one. All my photos tell a story. I don't want people to just look at them and say its just another photo, but a photo is about deliverying a message and sense of feel and mood to it.

Trust me, if I could sit in a field all day to take pics of horses and wait for the perdect moment I would. There are still many that I would like to get of my own horse, but I just havent been at the barn at the right time. Either Im not there or Im not there.

Eventually I will get photos of horses running and playing, just havent been in the right spot at the right time yet.


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

Hoofpic said:


> All my photos tell a story. I don't want people to just look at them and say its just another photo, but a photo is about deliverying a message and sense of feel and mood to it.


Yes, I noticed that, and that is what I like about pictures! "A picture is worth a thousand words!"


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Foxhunter said:


> no good taking a picture of a dark horse on a dark background as with the first picture.
> .


I'm guessing you referring to this picture










It's suppose to be darker to give a mysterious feel, if it's super bright out, it won't give the same feeling. 

Also, I was about 300-400ft back from the two horses in the picture (I was FAR) and I was not able to get any closer. Of course it would have been nice to have it super bright, but I would have to get much closer to the horses and I wasn't able to, this area was closed off. When I say close, I mean 50ft tops.

One thing that many tend to forget when shooting wild horses is that you don't have the luxury to just free roam as you please, position yourself at any distance, any position, any height from the subject and take your time to focus and re-compose. I mean you can focus and re-compose, think 
about the shot, consider it, back out...but I can gaurentee you that you will come home with more empty footage than anything good. Shooting wild horses is so entirely unique and different than any kind of portraiture. You just don't have the time and freedom that you have shooting people or even your own horses. 

Going by past experiences you need to be fast and get your shots off quicker than being too late. 1 or 2 seconds too late can be the difference between you getting the shot before the horse runs off or is not in the position anymore and the subject matter that you are targeting expires. Blown chance. 

One thing that I do is I take all my shots in 3's (no matter what I shoot), fast moving subjects? 5 or 6. It greatly increases your chances of nailing a good shot, rather than completely blowing the oppurtunity.

All those photos that I took, I got off within seconds. Most of them were shot from the side of the road or inside my friend's car. Try photo taking from the passenger seat of someone's car with them just barely out of frame. Not an easy thing to do, you don't have much to work with. But working within restrictions and limitations is what helps make you a better photographer.

Those 3 photos of the bay roan were shot from inside the car. All the photos that I took last week of the herd down the road from my barn, were all shot from the driver seat.

Getting something is always better than completely missing the shot and not getting anything at all. In certain situations you have to work with what you are given.

And I can tell you from my experiences is that, even if you spend hours or all day watching horses to get pictures, there is no gaurentee that what you want to happen, will actually happen. I've spent hours at my barn in the field with my mare's herd watching them, sitting on the tire observing, walking around the field and waiting for perfect picture opportunities, only for it to not happen. Luck is a factor and you have to be in the right place in the right time. The times where they were bucking and kicking, galloping across the field and playing around, I wasn't even anywhere near my camera, let alone in the field to get shots.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

JoBlueQuarter said:


> Yes, I noticed that, and that is what I like about pictures! "A picture is worth a thousand words!"


Yes absolutely and one thing that I can tell you from experience is that, (and many tend to over look this), is that with the help of extra hands, people with you to post up lights, softboxes, reflectors, furniture, backdrops, etc, you can completely mold and create your shot. So you have a lot of help because most of it is already pre-made for you.

When you don't have the extra gear and hands, it makes it that much more difficult. For instance with portraiture, that's why I say that it's MUCH more difficult to take good portraiture outside of the studio and without extra hands because you don't have the assistance and ability to control light like you can in a studio. So because of that you have to come up with ways to adapt and know how to use your environment to your benefit.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Ok, I never realised they were wild horses, big difference to taking ng shots of captive animals.

Sorry


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

They are wild horses? That is so cool! You can kinda tell!


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Foxhunter said:


> Ok, I never realised they were wild horses, big difference to taking ng shots of captive animals.
> 
> Sorry


No problem, glad you know now that shooting wildies is a lot more restricting than shooting captive horses.


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## Maistjarna (Dec 25, 2016)

This is what I would do with the pics before posting/selling/giving.
I spent less than 2 min on each photo on a samsung S5 mini with no special program-just the stuff the phone already has on it.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Maistjarna said:


> This is what I would do with the pics before posting/selling/giving.
> I spent less than 2 min on each photo on a samsung S5 mini with no special program-just the stuff the phone already has on it.


What? I don't get it, what exactly did you do?


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## Maistjarna (Dec 25, 2016)

Compare this picture:








To this one:










This one 








To this one:









The 2. Pics are the ones I edited.


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## Luce73 (Dec 7, 2012)

I agree that you should take a look at something like Adobe Lightroom to edit your pictures. That could help enhance the colors/brightness etc, and make great shots even better. Especially since you remarked how hard it is to get good shots when you cant control the subject or the environment! 

Great pictures though  I would probably straighten the horizon on some of them (on a couple it is a cool effect, on others it is a bit distracting) but that's up to personal taste/style. I'm just starting with photography myself so I'm not an expert or anything xD


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Luce73 said:


> I agree that you should take a look at something like Adobe Lightroom to edit your pictures. That could help enhance the colors/brightness etc, and make great shots even better. Especially since you remarked how hard it is to get good shots when you cant control the subject or the environment!
> 
> Great pictures though  I would probably straighten the horizon on some of them (on a couple it is a cool effect, on others it is a bit distracting) but that's up to personal taste/style. I'm just starting with photography myself so I'm not an expert or anything xD


Thanks.

I do use lightroom, that's what I use for all my photos.

The horizon is meant to be angled in the shots that are to give it perspective and dynamic. I like flat horizon shots but the picture itself and what's in frame has to call for it.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Maistjarna said:


> The 2. Pics are the ones I edited.


Thanks, I see it now, but you have to remember that I was trying to take advantage of the natural lighting as much possible in those pics. I got really lucky when I hit those shots of the family of 4 because the sun was just perfect. 

Trust me, I always try to put as much colour and pop into my images as possible but there are limits. I don't think the ones with the bay roan look better with more colour (blacks started to get crushed), but the family of 4 do so thank you for mentioning it.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

I know several equine photographers in our area. Most got their start just doing what you are now:grin:. To make some income in it you have to be able to photograph horses & their people....those are one that are going to buy your photos!! If you can capture them at their best:wink:. Hang out at some horse shows,concentrate on getting some good shots & share them in that horsie circle. Once people see your stuff you may try a photo session with someone,those get shared with friends & that's how people get to know your work & you get work...:grin: Know a girl that in high school was just doing random horse shows & photo shoots for friends , her work is good & now she is hired to be show photographer for several events


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

paintedpastures said:


> I know several equine photographers in our area. Most got their start just doing what you are now:grin:. To make some income in it you have to be able to photograph horses & their people....those are one that are going to buy your photos!! If you can capture them at their best:wink:. Hang out at some horse shows,concentrate on getting some good shots & share them in that horsie circle. Once people see your stuff you may try a photo session with someone,those get shared with friends & that's how people get to know your work & you get work...:grin: Know a girl that in high school was just doing random horse shows & photo shoots for friends , her work is good & now she is hired to be show photographer for several events


Yes that is true, I have to be able to shoot horses with their owner/rider and I am fully capable in doing that.

I actually took a photo of one of my friends at the barn about a month ago and it's really good, she loved it. If I can get her permission, it's most definitely portfolio worthy.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Hoofpic said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I think the market here in Alberta is fairly big as Alberta is a horse province here in Canada. From my experience going to these horse shows and expos, there are a good amount of equine photographers in my city, and some who will pay for a booth at these expos to get exposure (I would like to eventually do this, depending on costs of course). The question is, how many people and horse owners are willing to pay a professional to take their photos. It all depends on how much owners value the quality of their photographs. If all they take is selfies and that's all they want, then an equine photographer doesn't appeal to them at all.


There are several well known equine photographers in Alberta, that I know, through attending hrose shows, equine promotional venues , plus my youngest son did equine photography at horse shows for a few years. He also went to several breeding operations, taking promotional pictures.
His work was very much in demand. Being a perfectionist, he spend endless hours editing pictures, making sure he got the best features of the horse, eliminating back ground distractions, ect
However, what he really liked to do, was candid shots. Several of his photos were printed in the Appaloosa Journal, that I got his permission to submit.
I used to send him out to take registration pictures of my foals, and he would reluctantly do so, while satisfying his creativity, taking candid shots of the horses playing, interacting.
It helped that I was showing on the Appaloosa circuit, so he became our official photographer, plus got the connections to do other horse shows.
He was asked to be the Photographer at the Canadian Supreme, after Sharon Latimer decided to retire. By that time, he was getting burned out, doing horse shows,,subjecting his expensive cameras to the dust, and just standing there all day, getting those action shots in the various classes, and not just posed winning shots, so declined
I did meet the British equine photographer, Bob Languish , one year, at Spruce Meadows, when I had horses there for 'The Breeds of The World'
He asked if he could take pictures of the two Appaloosas I had there in the booths. I agreed. He told me that they might be used in a book, or a calendar, so were in fact, what is termed, 'stock photos'
About a year later, I contacted him, and he gave me a ISBN # for a book, in which my horses are featured.


The book is ' the Illustrated Encyclopedia of Horse Breeds ', by Susan McBain

The point being, he makes a living as a horse photographer, but not just by taking pictures at various events, but by having stock photos that are in demand

Another Alberta equine photograpetr that you must know, teaches a course at Olds college on the subject


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I have a few of my son's more candid shots, with many more, but my scanner is not linked correctly to my computer, so whatever I have in an e album, is it!

This is Smilie as a baby


My current main trail horse, as a yearling



These kind of pictures,as below, are nice(official show pictures), but to make aliving, I think you need to expand to stock photos


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Some resources

Equine Photography

Good luck! I know my son has a small fortune in cameras and photography equipment, plus a helpful wife, taking orders at the show, going through pictures with clients, often into the late hours of the night, after the show!


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

SMILIE

thanks for the info, i am having trouble accessing this site from my computer. I will reply to you when I can.

In the meantime here are more pics from today.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)




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## GMA100 (Apr 8, 2016)

I really like those pictures by the water!!! You should do more nature pictures!

I think a lot of people would appreciate you taking pictures of them at shows, or even during a riding session every now and then!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Some shows already have an official photographer that they use, so finding some shows that don't, is a place to start.
I have gone to many shows where you were just mailed proofs after the show, and with those pictures never really edited
What really was a plus, and why people really liked my son's photography, was both the fact that they could place their order right at a show, with them being up loaded on my son's computer, plus they could request having their horse shot in certain classes,and his candid shots were always very popular.
I have a great one of Smilie, just a head shot, accented in shadows against the open door of the hitching ring, which I never was aware of him taking
He also spent a lot of time perfecting each photo , using photoshop, that were ordered, fixing things that many others never bothered to do
For instance, a horse going along very nicely on the rail, but caught just passing one of the support beams, thus looking like a pole is growing out of their middle. He would photoshop it out Had people ask him to fix ears on their horse, that were back, and they wanted forward and alert, ect That is what took so, so much time


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I don't have some of his really artistic shots scanned in, but here is one of a foal



This one I took, no great photography, but I caught those mares and foals walking along in pairs, one morning, and just about lined up in their own section of fence!



I like your picture of the two paints, lined up in a T formation
Good luck!
The Mane Event would be a great place for a booth, and gives you almost a year to get a display together, business cards, price lists, ect


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Nice pictures Smilie, they look really good!


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## MerriBelle1 (Apr 19, 2017)

I have photographed horses for a long time as a part time professional and as a hobby. If you want to make it as a pro--study the horse breeds. Read and study the specific horse breeds you want to photograph. Pay attention to the tiniest detail. How artistic are you? Can you make grass appear in a photo where there is no grass. Can you sketch that perfect long tail on a horse with a short tail? Natural photography is something that is in high demand in some breeds. An equine magazine from many years ago photographed a Tennessee Walking Horse on their cover in the worst possible way. The next few issues they were blasted unmercifully on the lousy shot and didn't they know how to photograph a walking horse, etc. Practice on many different breeds. I was very blessed to have an Arab mare and her foal in the Arabian Horse World one year. It was a split second shot and I used an el cheapo camera. Nothing fancy. I found that for every roll of film, I usually get 2 or 3 very good photos. Know what kind of halter or bridle needs to go on that breed. If there's a rider, what kind of show clothing is appropriate. What kind of saddle is needed for the breed. A breed like a Paso Fino needs two handlers at halter, and the feet need to be in a certain position during a shot. A fast frame film will be helpful. One also needs to know how to educate the owners on how to present the horse. Make friends with the pros. Call them, and ask to critique a few (I use to limit it to 5) of your best photos (if they wouldn't mind) and take what they say with grace, and dignity. Even if all of your photos are (in their opinion) lousy--learn from the pros. Talk to the leaders in the industry. Ask for their honest opinion on your photos. Be prepared to hear--"that one's okay but..." or "I wouldn't put that in a magazine". Many photos are fine with a hobbiest or one who isn't in the showing big time. Be prepared for the unexpected. Thank people for their critique as that will make you a better photographer. Many wedding shots are still shots while many others (throwing the bouquet) are action. Think of all horse shots as action. You never know when a horse will stomp their foot, flick that ear, move the head or walk out of the picture or a child or dog runs in front of the perfect horse picture. Best of luck in your future endeavors! It's really fun and there are so many nice people out there. Plus you'll often get to see behind the scenes.


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## MerriBelle1 (Apr 19, 2017)

There are one or two photos that are (in my professional opinion) kinda, maybe half way good. Trying to take photos out of a car is tough. I give you credit for that. Some more "professional gear" probably would help the photo to some extent. The one where the mare is yawning is kinda cute. Sometimes working with horses on an overcast day helps a bit. It's so neat that you were able to get these photos of wild horses. So many people never see them in their lifetime. Keep an album and date them. As the years go by, you can see where you have improved. Waiting for future pictures!!!


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

MerriBelle1 said:


> There are one or two photos that are (in my professional opinion) kinda, maybe half way good. Trying to take photos out of a car is tough. I give you credit for that. Some more "professional gear" probably would help the photo to some extent. The one where the mare is yawning is kinda cute. Sometimes working with horses on an overcast day helps a bit. It's so neat that you were able to get these photos of wild horses. So many people never see them in their lifetime. Keep an album and date them. As the years go by, you can see where you have improved. Waiting for future pictures!!!


One or two are maybe half way good? Ouch.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

GMA100 said:


> I really like those pictures by the water!!! You should do more nature pictures!
> 
> I think a lot of people would appreciate you taking pictures of them at shows, or even during a riding session every now and then!


Thanks. I have been lately, as Ive been able to motivate myself a bit to take pictures of stuff other than horses lol.

I got a bunch of photos still needing to process. I think I got some stellar ones coming right up.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Yes this is me, I tried ropping tonight! It's hard and I kept it short cause I didn't want to embarass myself anymore. I tried twice and failed lol. I don't like people watching me.


























































What a beautiful mare!!!


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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

Few thoughts;
1) I can't see most of the earlier photos thanks to the Photobucket madness going on at present. 

2) I would be interested to know what equipment you're using - I've glance through the thread and haven't spotted if you've mentioned (sorry if you have and I've missed it). Whilst the equipment is only a tool its good to know what tools you're currently working with and using and what you've got access too. 

3) It would be good to see settings (aperture/shutter/iso) and gear used for photos when you post them for critique - again this gives an idea of what's really going on and what you were using at the time. If you can add in mode used; other settings; tripod/monopod/handholding etc.. and any other details that's great too. Part of critique is understanding what you were working with and how.

4) I've done some equine showjumping non-professionally and I've a few things to highlight:
a) Breaks - you likely won't get one if you're on your own. Depends a lot on the show, but in general once they start most keep going without much pause even around lunchtime. So you want a packed lunch in your bag because you might only get 20mins whilst they change jumps around to get your food before you have to get back to shooting.

b) If you're the pro for the event try to go to the site before the day and even talk to the course designer to get an idea of how its going to be setup. Take advantage of this pre-show time to see if you can get some angles worked out before the event and also to ask if you can move out into the arena. Sometimes being out there or away from the public viewing area gives you some better angles that have better backgrounds or at least cast the light where you want it (remember the light will shift - esp if outside - between morning and afternoon. 

c) On the day if you have someone to help and who can run things through basic editing and print on site that's fantastic - expensive to set that up (esp for a good quality printer) but it can net you more sales as you capture people in the moment. 

d) After the even the BIGGEST problem is editing and getting photos ready for display. Don't make the mistake many make of just throwing everything up online - you want to cull out ANY failures even if that means some people won't have a photograph of their horse. You also want then basically prepared - lightroom and photoshop actions can be a big help here in cutting down editing time - the proofs can always be cleaned up more when going to print once you've got orders. I've spoken to some who do manage to have a workflow where they do most of the editing for proof display, but it can be tricky. 

e) At shows/events you're going to have to battle poor backgrounds and angles; its a big challenge. So you will want to move around and try out different angles to find the best possible within the limits of the day. You can bulk out your gallery with posed photo sessions to show your real quality when not limited by an events situation. 

f) Free doesn't work well for starting a market. Instead you could shoot some events for free but not sell those photos nor specifically share them out. You could also do some where you're charging only a nominal fee for your services (depending on what the show organisers agree too).
You can do some trade-for-prints with people for posed photos. Essentially you're hiring them for the time with them and their horse for your to work with; whilst they are getting prints/photos from the experience. A win win for both parties as you want to build a portfolio.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Overread said:


> Few thoughts;
> 1) I can't see most of the earlier photos thanks to the Photobucket madness going on at present.


I am uploading them again on IMGUR. I have had enough of Photbucket, it sucks!!



> 2) I would be interested to know what equipment you're using - I've glance through the thread and haven't spotted if you've mentioned (sorry if you have and I've missed it). Whilst the equipment is only a tool its good to know what tools you're currently working with and using and what you've got access too.


Nikon D5500 for photos. I have the 85mm 1.8g, 50mm f1.8g, 35mm 1.8g, 18-140 AF-S, 70-300 AF-P. I just recently got the 70-300 and love it! This model just came out in 2016 and has gotten rave reviews.

I use Panasonic G7 for all my video and Sony X3000 action cam as well.



> 3) It would be good to see settings (aperture/shutter/iso) and gear used for photos when you post them for critique - again this gives an idea of what's really going on and what you were using at the time. If you can add in mode used; other settings; tripod/monopod/handholding etc.. and any other details that's great too. Part of critique is understanding what you were working with and how.


I could do this, it would take some time to add in my settings for each shot, but I don't mind.

What I thought about doing was, eventually make a video with my action cam and have it on my head so it gives you guys an idea of what it's like for me to shoot. You basically get a 1st person POV right from the camera. I thought this would be really cool to make and watch!!!



> 4) I've done some equine showjumping non-professionally and I've a few things to highlight:
> a) Breaks - you likely won't get one if you're on your own. Depends a lot on the show, but in general once they start most keep going without much pause even around lunchtime. So you want a packed lunch in your bag because you might only get 20mins whilst they change jumps around to get your food before you have to get back to shooting.


Thanks, I am aware of the breaks. You get a break when and for however long. I had this same thing when doing weddings many years ago.



> b) If you're the pro for the event try to go to the site before the day and even talk to the course designer to get an idea of how its going to be setup. Take advantage of this pre-show time to see if you can get some angles worked out before the event and also to ask if you can move out into the arena. Sometimes being out there or away from the public viewing area gives you some better angles that have better backgrounds or at least cast the light where you want it (remember the light will shift - esp if outside - between morning and afternoon.


This is true but often with some of the shows, you can't get too close or you have limited room to navigate in.There is a horse show in Medicine Hat that I will be attending in 2 weeks and (I was there last year), I would love to be able to shoot from inside the arena. I might just ask. Last year I shot from the stands and it was fine, but it's not the same.



> c) On the day if you have someone to help and who can run things through basic editing and print on site that's fantastic - expensive to set that up (esp for a good quality printer) but it can net you more sales as you capture people in the moment.


This is interesting, thanks!



> d) After the even the BIGGEST problem is editing and getting photos ready for display. Don't make the mistake many make of just throwing everything up online - you want to cull out ANY failures even if that means some people won't have a photograph of their horse. You also want then basically prepared - lightroom and photoshop actions can be a big help here in cutting down editing time - the proofs can always be cleaned up more when going to print once you've got orders. I've spoken to some who do manage to have a workflow where they do most of the editing for proof display, but it can be tricky.


I always edit my photos first.



> e) At shows/events you're going to have to battle poor backgrounds and angles; its a big challenge. So you will want to move around and try out different angles to find the best possible within the limits of the day. You can bulk out your gallery with posed photo sessions to show your real quality when not limited by an events situation.
> 
> f) Free doesn't work well for starting a market. Instead you could shoot some events for free but not sell those photos nor specifically share them out. You could also do some where you're charging only a nominal fee for your services (depending on what the show organisers agree too).
> You can do some trade-for-prints with people for posed photos. Essentially you're hiring them for the time with them and their horse for your to work with; whilst they are getting prints/photos from the experience. A win win for both parties as you want to build a portfolio.


I was thinking about this as well. Offer to taking pics of owners and their horse(s) in exchange for the photos itself is a good exchange IMO.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)




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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)




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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)




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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)




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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

For critique I would open up a new thread and put no more than 5 photos into it; for each one go through the settings you used, the situation, the setup et c.... And also then go through what you did and didn't like about the photo and what your thoughts on it are. Cutting it down to only a handful makes you really think about your photography and also makes it more 
manageable for yourself and those offering crits. 


I would say exposure looks good; you've got a handle on that so that's easily out of the way. Technically you've got the skill, although maybe underexpose a little in the stronger sunlight. You can then boost up the brightness in editing without too much noise and it should help protect those highlights from blowing out; I also find that it helps avoid a washed out look in photos that stronger sunlight can give. 

One thing I am noticing is that you've got wonky-camera-syndrome  Ok so that's rather snide to say, but whilst I can see one or two where it might be working; in general you're taking a very plain composition and moment with the horse and tilting the camera to try and generate interest. It's true that presenting different angles and viewpoints of a subject can generate interest and some people (customers) do like wonky angles; but in my view it tends to look a little cheap. 


I think what you need is to study more photographs by other equine photographers. I say that because at present your compositions and moments seem to be rather all over the place. Not so much capturing moments but just capturing horses in the frame. That's fine, its not bad, but I think it is showing that horses are a new subject for you to compose and work with (and believe me its something I'm going through as well and readily recognise that its a failing in my own photography). Study the photos and keep in mind things like the rule of thirds; leading lines; direction of attention of the animal; fore and background elements; patterns; the golden circle etc... Those are basic composition cornerstones and if you start trying to look with them in mind you might well start to see patterns in good equine photography more readily and how you might then emulate and make use of that in your own work.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Now shooting lakes, rocks and birds doesn't quite excite me like it does with horses, but I have this so far.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Overread said:


> For critique I would open up a new thread and put no more than 5 photos into it; for each one go through the settings you used, the situation, the setup et c.... And also then go through what you did and didn't like about the photo and what your thoughts on it are. Cutting it down to only a handful makes you really think about your photography and also makes it more
> manageable for yourself and those offering crits.


That's a good idea thanks, 5 photos per thread to start.



> I would say exposure looks good; you've got a handle on that so that's easily out of the way. Technically you've got the skill, although maybe underexpose a little in the stronger sunlight. You can then boost up the brightness in editing without too much noise and it should help protect those highlights from blowing out; I also find that it helps avoid a washed out look in photos that stronger sunlight can give.


Yes I need to intentionally underexpose when shooting in bright sunlight because I know that highlights can easily get blown out. 



> One thing I am noticing is that you've got wonky-camera-syndrome  Ok so that's rather snide to say, but whilst I can see one or two where it might be working; in general you're taking a very plain composition and moment with the horse and tilting the camera to try and generate interest. It's true that presenting different angles and viewpoints of a subject can generate interest and some people (customers) do like wonky angles; but in my view it tends to look a little cheap.
> 
> 
> I think what you need is to study more photographs by other equine photographers. I say that because at present your compositions and moments seem to be rather all over the place. Not so much capturing moments but just capturing horses in the frame. That's fine, its not bad, but I think it is showing that horses are a new subject for you to compose and work with (and believe me its something I'm going through as well and readily recognise that its a failing in my own photography). Study the photos and keep in mind things like the rule of thirds; leading lines; direction of attention of the animal; fore and background elements; patterns; the golden circle etc... Those are basic composition cornerstones and if you start trying to look with them in mind you might well start to see patterns in good equine photography more readily and how you might then emulate and make use of that in your own work.


I know what you are saying but I like to shoot at angles because to me, it makes images more flattering. It all depends on what you shoot exactly but for me, flat even level shots are boring and generic. You need variety and you need to change things up. I've seen so many equine photographers portfolios who just shoot the same old generic style and that is fine, but it's not my style. I don't want to be seen as just another "photographer", I want to be seen as someone with a unique talent and offer skills and qualities in my work that are lacking by other photographers.

One area that I would at some point like to tackle is get into low key photos because that is huge in the equine photography world. It seems every horse lover out there wants low key portraits of them and their horse. 

I would like to study some more photos by various equine photographers and to me right now, the one skill that I have that really stands out and not every photographer will have is my ability to post edit photos. I can make something out of nothing and make an average photo look great just through post edit. I feel that I know how to give photos that WOW factor. 

I don't want my photos to look generic or just like every other equine photographers work. I want to have a unique look and feel to my photos. I'm really big on composition and to me, photos (or a set) of them where the subject is always in the dead centre of the frame taking up 75% of the frame and shot on a perfectly level angle does nothing for me. BORING!

I think on top, what I need is, I need a shot to get in the arena at a real show and see what i can come up with. I'm talking fast action shots with horses and their riders moving at quick and frantic speeds. Perhaps, if I get this chance, I will mount the action cam onto my helmet and you guys can get a first person POV on me shooting. That would be really cool and I would love to share.


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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

My advice is to start being generic. 
I say that for two core reasons:

1) Because many clients will want generic and "normal" style photos. You've got to be able to produce them because that's what many will want to see and buy. That's the same in any market sector in general; the bulk of clients will want the copy-cat style that everyone else has. 

2) Because at present I think you've still got a ways to go with your basic equine composition. I think ground yourself in the basics really really well. Then start to branch out and experiment. That way you've given yourself a really solid foundation from which to expand from. Otherwise you run the risk of trying to learn too much all at once which makes things a lot harder and can also make it harder to self assess what's going right and wrong. 

Give yourself that solid foundation and work it to a high standard and you won't just be another equine photographer. Heck if you can time your shots* to get the right leg positions at walk, trot, canter and gallop you'll be streets ahead of most. 
Showjumping is actually easier than dressage, because the timing is much more bold in jumping. You've got the jump so you know exactly where the event will take place and you've got much more bold motions from the horse in the build up to the jump itself; plus the act of jumping is, whilst fast, also quite slow. Leg movements at the trot though are very fast and the moment where they are in a good position is only a split-second. 


For showjumping keep in mind 1/620sec will give you a sharp shot; 1/500 will blur mane/tail/hooves and anything slower is going to blur more of the motion. Thus 1/620sec is your ideal slowest shutter speed. I say that because if you're indoors you can very easily be shooting at that speed with your lens wide open and your ISO as high as it can go. 
In jumping the take-off is the key moment; the whole time the horses hind legs leave the ground and whilst its body is arching upward is the moment you want. Hovering over the middle and on the fall down tend to be less easy to shoot well. Meanwhile if you get the hind legs still on the ground it can look like the horse is leaning on an invisible bar because of how (in a proper jump) the horse has a lot of pressure on those hind legs so they look solid rather than in-motion (though experimenting with slower shutter speeds and blur might let you keep the hinds on the ground and keep that sense of motion; though I've never really tried this). 


Gear wise:
A horse is a very big subject with a very three-dimensional shape. By this I mean that there are very few to no "flat" areas on a horse. Compare a persons face to a horses and a human has a very "flat" face in comparison. As a result perspective distortion is a much bigger issue; as such if you imagine a standard photo of a horse where its filling most of the frame you want to use a lens of at least 100mm or longer in focal length. This puts you at a greater distance and thus reduces perspective distortion. Once you start getting closer those parts of the horse closer to you will get enlarged over those behind; at the extreme end you get those photos like you see on birthday cards with a horse with a massive nose and a tiny head. Of course as you can see there IS a market for such photos; but for your standard show or posed equine photography this isn't what people typically want. 
Of course lenses like your 85mm will be great for doing shots with more scenery around the horse; where you are standing further back. 

Your 70-300 AF-P is likely going to be your bread-and-butter lens for your eventing at shows. Given time though, and depending how many indoor and low light you end up in; you might well find that in the future you end up leaning toward a 70-200mm f2.8 which is a very standard lens for equine work. 



* It will likely be a short burst of shots not just one; if you can do it in one you're getting VERY good


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## redbarron1010 (Mar 11, 2017)

A friend of mine made a little side business by taking senior photos of high school girls posing with her horses. She had about four horses, and the girls would pick which horse to pose with for their senior pictures. those photos turned out beautiful, and she would either have the girl standing by the horse with it's head over their shoulder or sitting on the horse etc. Very creative.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Overread said:


> My advice is to start being generic.
> I say that for two core reasons:
> 
> 1) Because many clients will want generic and "normal" style photos. You've got to be able to produce them because that's what many will want to see and buy. That's the same in any market sector in general; the bulk of clients will want the copy-cat style that everyone else has.


Makes sense, thanks. But why does everyone always want levelled shots with no angles to them? I just don't get it. When I look at a bunch of these photos, they just look so bland and ordinary to me. Trust me, anyone who can shoot from always a levelled plain, doesn't take much skill at all. The ones who are really skilled and can change it up are the ones who can give a various variety of perspectives, feel of space, completely change the dynamic of the photo. 

This is why for me, portraiture has always been bar none my #1 favourite type of photography. It still is, but it will be blended with equine now. 



> 2) Because at present I think you've still got a ways to go with your basic equine composition. I think ground yourself in the basics really really well. Then start to branch out and experiment. That way you've given yourself a really solid foundation from which to expand from. Otherwise you run the risk of trying to learn too much all at once which makes things a lot harder and can also make it harder to self assess what's going right and wrong.


Okay. I will admit, shooting horses is still new to me, I am still experimenting and there are still a lot of types that I haven't yet to touch like lowkey, action, jumping, fast moving. I am capable in taking these types of shots, I just haven't been in the right place at the right time.

That's why I say, let me shoot from the ground in the arena at a show whether it's racing, western pleasure, showmanship, cowboy challenge, whatever. I will say that jumping doesn't really appeal my interest but that doesn't mean that I am not willing to try to attempt to shoot it.



> Give yourself that solid foundation and work it to a high standard and you won't just be another equine photographer. Heck if you can time your shots* to get the right leg positions at walk, trot, canter and gallop you'll be streets ahead of most.
> Showjumping is actually easier than dressage, because the timing is much more bold in jumping. You've got the jump so you know exactly where the event will take place and you've got much more bold motions from the horse in the build up to the jump itself; plus the act of jumping is, whilst fast, also quite slow. Leg movements at the trot though are very fast and the moment where they are in a good position is only a split-second.


I most likely won't attempt to shoot dressage because right now i just don't have the eye for it. I have no problem giving myself a very solid foundation to work with, but I know that I will eventually go back to working with angles, perspectives and such because for me always shooting at a perfectly levellled plain does nothing for me. It's boring and unexciting. 

I just recently took a look at a set of photos that a local equine photographer shot of my trainer at a dressage show. The photos are good, but they're just so bland and there is no variety between them. I don't want this. This is where one of my greatest skills is my ability to post edit and give images completely different looks and feel to them.



> For showjumping keep in mind 1/620sec will give you a sharp shot; 1/500 will blur mane/tail/hooves and anything slower is going to blur more of the motion. Thus 1/620sec is your ideal slowest shutter speed. I say that because if you're indoors you can very easily be shooting at that speed with your lens wide open and your ISO as high as it can go.
> In jumping the take-off is the key moment; the whole time the horses hind legs leave the ground and whilst its body is arching upward is the moment you want. Hovering over the middle and on the fall down tend to be less easy to shoot well. Meanwhile if you get the hind legs still on the ground it can look like the horse is leaning on an invisible bar because of how (in a proper jump) the horse has a lot of pressure on those hind legs so they look solid rather than in-motion (though experimenting with slower shutter speeds and blur might let you keep the hinds on the ground and keep that sense of motion; though I've never really tried this).


thanks for the tip, I was definitely wondering what the shutter speed would be for jumping. I didn't know since I've never shot it but I was thinking it would be in the 1/1000 range. For horses running in a field, I know it would be in the 1/1250-1/3000 range.



> Gear wise:
> A horse is a very big subject with a very three-dimensional shape. By this I mean that there are very few to no "flat" areas on a horse. Compare a persons face to a horses and a human has a very "flat" face in comparison. As a result perspective distortion is a much bigger issue; as such if you imagine a standard photo of a horse where its filling most of the frame you want to use a lens of at least 100mm or longer in focal length. This puts you at a greater distance and thus reduces perspective distortion. Once you start getting closer those parts of the horse closer to you will get enlarged over those behind; at the extreme end you get those photos like you see on birthday cards with a horse with a massive nose and a tiny head. Of course as you can see there IS a market for such photos; but for your standard show or posed equine photography this isn't what people typically want.
> Of course lenses like your 85mm will be great for doing shots with more scenery around the horse; where you are standing further back.
> 
> Your 70-300 AF-P is likely going to be your bread-and-butter lens for your eventing at shows. Given time though, and depending how many indoor and low light you end up in; you might well find that in the future you end up leaning toward a 70-200mm f2.8 which is a very standard lens for equine work.


Yes this is what I've learned over the past couple months. I just got my 70-300 AF-P 2 months ago and love it. It's tack sharp throughout the entire range and has actually become my sharpest zoom lens right now. It is already my "bread and butter" as well as the 85mm prime. I feel with just these two lenses, it would be enough to cover all my equine needs.

I've been looking for a longer zoom lens for many months but didn't come across one that I felt was worth the money. Until the AF-P 70-300 came out.

What I've learned is that whenever I shoot horses, I never shoot in the 1x-70mm range ever. Ever. When you shoot horses, you want to be at a distance (unless you are in smaller spaces and doing portraits or selfies). This is why about 6 months ago, I knew that I needed a zoom lens with a longer focal length. The chances of me taking photos (again, unless it's basic portraits or selfies), less than 10ft away from a horse is very minimal.

I've spend time looking up what others uses for equines and I am aware that the 70-200 f2.8 is a great choice. My only barrier is the cost of it, (not saying it's not worth it, because I know it is worth it as it's amazing glass and easily one of Nikons top 5 lenses ever), but I just can't be blowing that kind of coin right now on a single lens. IF I can make a serious living off equine photography, and after some funds come in, then yes down the road, the 70-200 f2.8 will be undoubtedly be the first lens I added to my setup. Not even that will replace my AF-P 70-300, it will compliment it. It will give me a capable low light shooter because right now, I wouldn't be able to shoot in dark arenas etc. 

Plus another factor is 200mm for me at the long end wouldn't be long enough, so that's why right now I need to go with the more versatile lens rather than the best. Also, I try not to rely too much on gear, remember, a good photographer will be able to shoot with just about anything.

I know Tamron just released a 100-600mm or something along those lines and I would be more interested in using that simply for the longer reach. Not saying it's going to beat out the 70-200 but it could replace my 70-300 AF-P down the road. 

My 85mm is my "go to" lens for a lot of things, not just portraiture but other stuff because it's an amazing lens and because it's longer, it doubles up as a shorter telephoto. It has replaced my 50mm prime (which I will most likely be selling to recover costs) as I don't use it anymore, but the 35mm still has it's place.

For me, I am all about primes, as I feel that shooting with primes actually makes you a better photographer than just using zooms. Primes can't be beat for the money to performance ratio and they make you be more active and see photography in a whole new different light. But unfortunately, you can't shoot wild horses from 300-400ft away with primes lol and this is why a zoom is still needed for me. But if I am doing general horse shots or portraiture, the 85mm is always on the camera every single time, it's just too **** good.

That type of photo that you described, with say a massive nose and smaller head, I've never seen these types of photos before. Can you post an example? TIA



> * It will likely be a short burst of shots not just one; if you can do it in one you're getting VERY good


I always shoot in burst, typically 3 and 5-7 if it's really fast moving such as something like a hawk or bird flying. IMO when shooting moving subjects, it's always best to shoot in burst because even if you have several good shots, you at least have options on which ones to use. There is always enough minor change up in detail between each one to make them distinguishable.


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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2143/2284234538_32608c13d8_b.jpg

That would be an example at the very extreme end [just grabbed off google images]. It shows the perspective distortion very clearly, the nose being very close to the lens is vastly enlarged over the ears in the background. Of course at this extreme end some find it amusing/cute.


I understand what you mean about boring VS interesting photos; what I think you are focusing on is the idea of angles being the point of interest and giving a new twist. I think you might find that whilst that can work you also need to focus on moments and expressions from the horse and rider. Harder to achieve but its about seeing those moments which can make a photo more so than the angles and leading lines.

You might also get yourself some kneepads and experiment with slightly lower angles so that you're looking up a little at larger horses and at eye level with shorter ones. Kneepads can seem daft but can be a life saver if you want to kneel for extended periods.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Overread said:


> https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2143/2284234538_32608c13d8_b.jpg
> 
> That would be an example at the very extreme end [just grabbed off google images]. It shows the perspective distortion very clearly, the nose being very close to the lens is vastly enlarged over the ears in the background. Of course at this extreme end some find it amusing/cute.


Oh I see lol. Yes, personally I find these types of photos cute but wwwwway over done and more for fun than professional use. But to each their own lol. Trust me, I love muzzles but there are better ways to capture it IMO, like this one I got last summer of my herd.

My BO and everyone at the barn loves this photo and the BO actually immediately asked me if he could use it for his website front page and I gave him permission.













> I understand what you mean about boring VS interesting photos; what I think you are focusing on is the idea of angles being the point of interest and giving a new twist. I think you might find that whilst that can work you also need to focus on moments and expressions from the horse and rider. Harder to achieve but its about seeing those moments which can make a photo more so than the angles and leading lines.
> 
> You might also get yourself some kneepads and experiment with slightly lower angles so that you're looking up a little at larger horses and at eye level with shorter ones. Kneepads can seem daft but can be a life saver if you want to kneel for extended periods.


Well I am using angles to prevent the images from looking generic and same old, same old. 

Yes I would love to work on getting shots of expressions from the horse and rider. Just haven't had the right situation as of yet. Once I get my first show, I will.

Kneepads are a great suggestion thanks. Yes it's a bit straining always crouched down all the time, usually I just sit on the floor lol or lay down.


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## kewpalace (Jul 17, 2013)

Coming late to the party but wanted to give a shout out to two equine photographers I know.

For a slightly different take on horse photography, I met a guy at a branding who does horse/owner photos, but is what he termed a "photo painter". So he takes the pix and then does a different background and sometimes takes out tack, etc. His name is Martin Hlavac. I think his work is very interesting; not sure I'd pay to have it done, but some of his pix I could see my horse and myself in there. Here's some examples:


















Another equine photographer I know is Sarah K. Andrews who does race horse photography mostly, but also portraits with owners/horses. She also donated time/photos to taking pix of rescues available for adoption at some rescues. They were stunning pix. She does some fantastic work and captures the horse's personality extreme well. I actually met her on a forum that used to have summer camps which I went to one year. Very nice person and excellent photographer.

One thing that both have had to say is it is a tough business, although I believe both are making a living out of it. I see that with show photographer's too. You spend a lot of time taking photos & sometimes get very little in return for your time/efforts. Everyone can take pixs now and many people do not want to pay for high quality photos, even of their own horse. BTW, Hoofpic, I like many of your photos. :thumbsup:


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

I am okay with some shots with perspective distortion but preferably in street photography and landscapes. But even then I would rather use a wide angle lens.

I got these last October when I was out in the country to trail ride. I got caught up shooting wildies and next thing you know it was sunset lol. I shot these with my Panasonic G7 (that I normally use for video only) and 7-14mm wide angle lens. I plan on being out again this Fall to update these photos and add onto them.




























At a dating event last Fall that took place at a barn and was an absolute failure lol. While most went home because they were poor sports, the few left were chatting and getting to know each other while I was at the back taking photos lol.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Here are probably my 3 favourite from that day. I shot this on a bridge cam with a 1" sensor. I shot it at 400mm.

In this pic, I was not wanting to have the red barn in frame, I just wanted to capture the trees in the back but I also wanted part of the sky. I was shooting on private property so I had to stand outside the gate and I knew I had to be quick before this boy moved. Thankfully I was able to get it off in time.










I got lucky on this one. Didn't want the head to the left in frame, but I wanted to capture enough of the environment and the two fence posts so I had to keep it in there.










This was my favourite boy to shoot, he was very friendly and kept coming up to me for close ups haha.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

redbarron1010 said:


> A friend of mine made a little side business by taking senior photos of high school girls posing with her horses. She had about four horses, and the girls would pick which horse to pose with for their senior pictures. those photos turned out beautiful, and she would either have the girl standing by the horse with it's head over their shoulder or sitting on the horse etc. Very creative.


Thanks. From my research so far, I know that where I live, there is demand for two things - jumpers wanting photos of them jumping and owners wanting photos of them and their horse together (whether it's out in a field during sunset, kids sitting on the horse, etc). Owners want photos of them and their horse TOGETHER.

Once i get into this, I feel that it will really open up a lot of passageways for me. It's just that (aside from taking a few of one of my friends at the barn), I haven't shot any photos of owner and horse together. I did try shooting another friend and her colt in a crop field last summer, but lets just say that didn't work out because her boy was out of control and she wasn't able to control him lol.

Eventually, I would like to have photos of me taking photos, I will obviously have to hire someone to do this. I've noticed that this is one thing that I have yet to find in any equine photographers portfolio. Yes it doesn't tell my photo taking abilities because I wouldn't be taking those photos, but it tells a story of me going about taking photos and just gives people a little bit of a narrative feel, which I think is nice to share. Just like how I very much plan on taking a video of me shooting with my action cam on my head so people can get a first person POV.


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

I am not going to pretend to know anything about photography b/c I don't. But as someone who would potentially purchase a photo...I am not super fond of the angled pictures. I guess I am cookie-cutter...LOL. It is OK once in awhile, but sometimes just throws off a perfectly good picture and makes it look crooked. 

I also think your signature is a bit too big - it is great, but I think you need to make it a bit smaller as it really does take away from the actual photo. The focal point should be the beautiful picture, not your signature. 

You have some great pictures...I really like some of the shots you got of the wildies. I was out there trail riding and know that they don't let you get too close. 

There are enough horse events in Alberta that I think making some phone calls and showing up to a few local shows/events is a good way to start putting your name out there. Do you have a FB page or website? That is another great way to have people look at what you have done and see your portfolio. Putting business cards up at local barns, tack stores, etc is a great way for folks to check out your FB page. 

I am more familiar with the Red Deer area, but I do know that at some of the farmer's markets around here there are those that have tables to sell their photographs/artwork, etc as well. So that might be something for you to check out - of course, you would have to have pictures edited, printed and framed for people to purchase.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

I got rejected for shooting inside the arena at the big horse show in a couple weeks. Darn. Bummer


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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

No worries; you're an unknown quantity at present photographically speaking; I don't know about how well you know the organisers either. Might just be it will take a while to build up a reputation to where they won't mind you out in the area as they know you better. It could also be if you're a hobbyist at this stage and thus don't have your own insurance setup and thus any situation (horse runs into you - you spook a horse and send the rider flying etc...) has to be covered by their insurance only. 

Insurance cover for yourself and 3rd parties (not just your gear) is likely one big difference and expense between a hobbyist and a professional. 


Still you can attend the event and even if the backgrounds are dull you can at least get shots of the jumps; the skill on your part is the same its just going to limit your possible angles. 

Also as you're in the horsey world nothing stops you from asking a friend over to do some jumps and practice.


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## Cherrij (Jan 30, 2013)

Hoofpic said:


> I know what you are saying but I like to shoot at angles because to me, it makes images more flattering. It all depends on what you shoot exactly but for me, flat even level shots are boring and generic. You need variety and you need to change things up. I've seen so many equine photographers portfolios who just shoot the same old generic style and that is fine, but it's not my style. I don't want to be seen as just another "photographer", I want to be seen as someone with a unique talent and offer skills and qualities in my work that are lacking by other photographers.
> 
> One area that I would at some point like to tackle is get into low key photos because that is huge in the equine photography world. It seems every horse lover out there wants low key portraits of them and their horse.
> 
> ...


hi. I wandered here, to have a peek and maybe give some input. 
Quite a few photos look interesting, of course, I am no person to purchase shots of something that doesn't "talk to me at a personal level", but... 

I know the feeling of wanting to stand out. 
BUT... when I was looking at the latest photos you uploaded, I started feeling a little sea sick. All the photos go one right next to the other, you have posted them so close together that they don't separate at all, and more than half of them feel wonky. Horizon goes one, way then the other way, and then back. Sorry, makes me a bit sick. 

To be honest.. getting an amazing photo with level ground, level horizon, is A LOT harder than getting an attractive photo with angled horizon. 

I really think you need to get some photos of training sessions or shows for your portfolio. as far as I know public shows are easy to attend and photograph, and get some friends to let you take photos of their training. Some photographers will offer photos to those friends for free, when they are allowed to publish the photos in their portfolio and ask the subjects to fulfill the idea the photographer has..


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

cbar said:


> I am not going to pretend to know anything about photography b/c I don't. But as someone who would potentially purchase a photo...I am not super fond of the angled pictures. I guess I am cookie-cutter...LOL. It is OK once in awhile, but sometimes just throws off a perfectly good picture and makes it look crooked.
> 
> I also think your signature is a bit too big - it is great, but I think you need to make it a bit smaller as it really does take away from the actual photo. The focal point should be the beautiful picture, not your signature.
> 
> ...


I will try to take it easy on the angled shots. I will still take them but I will cut back and only use them when I feel it's fitting.

The wildies out here are great! Very friendly and weren't scared of my presence at all.

Well I got rejected for the big horse show in 2 weeks in Medicine Hat, which is unfortunate. Oh well.

No website yet, no cards yet. I can do the cards myself, but if I get serious into this, I would have someone else do my website, I have good solid connections when it comes to web development, so that's a bonus!

Those farmers markets in Red Deer, are they year round?

I agree with you on my photograph trademark, it's too long. I will update it. I still (though) am very fond of the hoofpic in it. I've never seen an equine trademark with a hoofpic in it, hoof prints and shoes yes, but not hoofpics. I think it's unique.


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

The Red Deer Farmer's market is from May to October...I'm not entirely sure if they have a year round one like Calgary does (I kind of don't think they do). but might be something to look into....there are tons of markets all over Alberta so you might be able to find something close to home that doesn't cost a lot to have a table at. 

I think your actual signature/trademark is fine, I would just maybe make it a bit smaller. 

If you are serious about pursuing this, I would definitely get on your business cards ASAP so when you do attend an event you have something to hand out to people who are interested.


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## horseylover1_1 (Feb 13, 2008)

Hoofpic said:


> I got rejected for shooting inside the arena at the big horse show in a couple weeks. Darn. Bummer


It happens! In most businesses you'll hear "no" as often as you hear "yes" - if not more so. Keep on asking, someone will be happy to have you there


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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

Remember as you're still getting the skills there's no harm in just being an amateur at these events to start out with. By all means do ask before you go, but just introduce yourself as a hobbyist and don't go in with the intent to sell. That way you can build up some real world experience and skills before you make it an earner.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Overread said:


> No worries; you're an unknown quantity at present photographically speaking; I don't know about how well you know the organisers either. Might just be it will take a while to build up a reputation to where they won't mind you out in the area as they know you better. It could also be if you're a hobbyist at this stage and thus don't have your own insurance setup and thus any situation (horse runs into you - you spook a horse and send the rider flying etc...) has to be covered by their insurance only.
> 
> Insurance cover for yourself and 3rd parties (not just your gear) is likely one big difference and expense between a hobbyist and a professional.
> 
> ...


I will have to look into insurance for myself, I just hope it's not too expensive. 

I might attend this show, I'm not sure yet. It's also a 3hr drive each way. I loved it last year but it was so hot that day that I was so tired after. I had to be on the road for just before 6am and didn't get back in town until 8pm lol.

I was thinking about this the other day, if I want to get pictures in my portfolio of owners + their horse, I would have to take pics of my friends at the barn. I don't know anyone else with horses and it would forsure be the most convenient to just take pics of my friends and their horses. I will double check but I am sure they will be okay with having their photos seen by others.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Cherrij said:


> hi. I wandered here, to have a peek and maybe give some input.
> Quite a few photos look interesting, of course, I am no person to purchase shots of something that doesn't "talk to me at a personal level", but...
> 
> I know the feeling of wanting to stand out.
> ...


Thanks for the input.

Trust me, I have no issues what so ever in terms of getting shots off on leveled ground. I am very steady with the camera and quick on my feet. It's just for me, I love playing with vertical composition for everything that it just makes the type of shots that you can get off that much more endless. 

I got some more photos I need to upload, they are from last week, I just haven't gotten around to editing them until now. 

I will be honest, I hate to repeat myself but I've seen so many portfolios to equine photographers who have excellent photos, but when I go through them one after the other, it's all the same general composition, same levelled shots, subject always in the centre, that's just boring to me. I', not debating what is popular in the horse world, but just saying. I will try to give some examples later.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Welcome to the adult world.....doing horse photos that people will pay for is going to be about the HORSE, not you. They are paying for that. If they are paying for an ART print, that is a different class. The photographer needs to know enough about the different breed characteristics to be able to HIGHLIGHT those in a photo. Arabian owners do not usually want pictures of the horse's rear, unless it is a fantastic photo of a flowing tail. Quarter Horse people are the opposite. 
To take conformation shots, there are a LOT of rules that need to be followed to get the most favorable shot, and a photographer needs to know enough about conformation to move a horse's leg 1/4" to accentuate the proper angles.
To take jumping pics, one needs to know exactly how the jumper goes, or the pics will be horrible. 

If a photographer takes enough rapid frames, they may get lucky....but they may STILL miss it.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

greentree said:


> Welcome to the adult world.....doing horse photos that people will pay for is going to be about the HORSE, not you. They are paying for that. If they are paying for an ART print, that is a different class. The photographer needs to know enough about the different breed characteristics to be able to HIGHLIGHT those in a photo. Arabian owners do not usually want pictures of the horse's rear, unless it is a fantastic photo of a flowing tail. Quarter Horse people are the opposite.
> To take conformation shots, there are a LOT of rules that need to be followed to get the most favorable shot, and a photographer needs to know enough about conformation to move a horse's leg 1/4" to accentuate the proper angles.
> To take jumping pics, one needs to know exactly how the jumper goes, or the pics will be horrible.
> 
> If a photographer takes enough rapid frames, they may get lucky....but they may STILL miss it.


Yes it's for the horse, not me

BUt I disagree with you that pics of horses rear isn't appealing, it depends what's in frame and how it's shot. 

It will be awhile before I get a chance to take jumping pics. 

Remember this pic from last year? I've had a lot of compliments on it.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

At the lakes behind my house. I can't say that shooting ducks is particularly all that exciting, but when I need to expand my portfolio, I need to be able to prove that i can shoot anything, not just horses.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)




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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

Compliments for photos can be a huge problem when you're trying to work out what people do and don't actually like. 

Partly because people compliment for many reasons but not all mean that they'd be prepared to actually pay real money to hang it on their wall. Thus if you're looking to turn professional you've got to study what others produce that does sell; however along that line you've also got to identify when a print is being sold because people like it and when its being sold because its done by someone famous. The latter can produce a lot of very high price selling items of "art" which otherwise appear to be quite rubbish (The Tate Modern in London is full of that kind of stuff). So look at average people and what sells to them. 


Also note that a lot of people get quickly taken in by photos which show rich colour (HDR) and detail. 


I'm not saying the back-end-of-horse shot is bad in any way, I'm just giving a cautionary tale regarding what might actually Sell compared to what gets compliments. 


However in equine circles the pattern gets a little more tricky as conformation of the horse also comes into play. As said earlier proper conformation photos are another line of work that can sell where you are dealing with what you'd consider the dull standing pose photos. In those a good photo of the back end might well not only sell but be very important; as is your posing of the animal to best show itself. As said that's something you'd have to learn as not every owner will know it; plus if they are handling the horse and you're at a distance you've got the better angle to see the horse in full profile to know if something is going to show right or wrong in the shot.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Hoofpic said:


> Yes it's for the horse, not me
> 
> BUt I disagree with you that pics of horses rear isn't appealing, it depends what's in frame and how it's shot.
> 
> ...


So sorry....but this is exactly what I was saying....THAT is your horse, so YOU think it is cute, but NOBODY is going to pay you for it, and good luck finding someone to pay you for that photo of THEIR horse. I can take pictures of dirty horses standing in manure all day long at my farm!


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

I get your point greentree but I still disagree with you that nobody wants pics of their horses rear unless their tail is moving.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

So, you are saying you would PAY someone for a picture of 2/3 of a horse, if it were not your horse? Or, if you PAID someone to do a photo shoot (flat fee, by the hour, or whatever....), you would accept that they took a picture, and missed getting the other 1/3 of the horse in it?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I think what you guys are talking about is the difference between portrait photography, and art photography.

the photo of the pinto horse's rear, with the fence behind it is attractive in an artsy sense, due to the repitition of color and vertical lines.











as a portrait, it is not a good shot.

Photography is super hard to stand out in. There are so many people doing it.

Art photography might be easier to focus on becuase of its subjective nature, there's almost always someone who will find a photo pretty enough to want.

you really have to 'see' the composition, something that I think so many amatures neglect. the WHOLE composition.

and, always try cropping. Cropping can make a good photo great, and maybe a mediocre one fair.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

tinyliny said:


> I think what you guys are talking about is the difference between portrait photography, and art photography.
> 
> the photo of the pinto horse's rear, with the fence behind it is attractive in an artsy sense, due to the repitition of color and vertical lines.
> 
> ...


Actually, from my artistic view, the fence is the best part. I like the variations in the wood. I think the horse tushie hides the beauty of the wood. Ames me want to shu the horse away.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

greentree said:


> So, you are saying you would PAY someone for a picture of 2/3 of a horse, if it were not your horse? Or, if you PAID someone to do a photo shoot (flat fee, by the hour, or whatever....), you would accept that they took a picture, and missed getting the other 1/3 of the horse in it?


You've obviously never seen shots like this before (which I'm very much capable in taking these shots if given the oppurtunity).










or this










or this










We can't see the face and all you see is the rear of the horse, so they are bad pics.


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

I wouldn't pay for any of these pictures.


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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

I take it by your wording that they are not your photos? 

The only one that, to my eye, holds any merit is the first of the trio because you've got the horses head turned toward the rider and the point of connection there. The back-end of horse isn't really the subject, the subject and point of interest is the connection between rider and horse in that moment and as such, to the owner of the horse and person in the photo (ergo an emotional connection as opposed to artistic merit) it might well. 

The second one is getting there; you've got direction of travel and it would form a neat part of a set of photos of an event or such. On its own its so-so in my view. The third is just kind of back end of two people riding out.


I do get what you mean there ARE good photos where the key subject is moving away from the viewer; however I think they are very hard to pull of and work for the majority of people. They rely very strongly on a powerful destination (not necessarily a single object but a destination) being within the scene as the key point of interest; as your other key point is moving away from the viewer.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

In those three photos, the head of the horse is NOT cut off by the photographer. The first is a bit cute, as Overread said, because it shows a connection. The second, meh, and the third is a cute round pony in some pretty fall foliage, but still not a money earner.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

greentree said:


> In those three photos, the head of the horse is NOT cut off by the photographer. The first is a bit cute, as Overread said, because it shows a connection. The second, meh, and the third is a cute round pony in some pretty fall foliage, but still not a money earner.


I have many, many pictures like the third one taken of me by someone riding behind me on the trail. Fall foliage, snow, and summer as I am swatting at the B-52size flies.

I didn't have to pay for them either.

Now the first photo is cool, as others have said, because of the connection between owner and horse. I have a few of those that were captured by friends out at the barn or during a rest stop on the trail. And the were free as well.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

greentree said:


> In those three photos, the head of the horse is NOT cut off by the photographer. The first is a bit cute, as Overread said, because it shows a connection. The second, meh, and the third is a cute round pony in some pretty fall foliage, but still not a money earner.


My point is that they still all tell a story. Yes you need to be able to take photos that make money but you also need variety. If you don't have variety you will be known as a one trick pony. Look at portraiture, it's all about angles. If all you do is take boring headshots straight on each time, you will be known as a generic and run of the mill photographer. This is why so many people fail in the wedding industry.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Though I've never dabbled in professional photography, I can say (after conversations with those who have) that it is a fickle, difficult business. 

I agree with what's being said on this page, and would suggest that you need to determine what you want to specialize in. Do you want to focus on artistic shots? Do you want to shoot at shows and events? Do you want to offer portraits?
Highly skilled photographers (I have the pleasure of knowing one!) can do all of the above. But each one takes a very different eye, because you're catering to a different type of client. 

Once you've decided what you want your focus to be, you can begin really parsing ways that your photography is lacking, and ways you can improve.
If you want this to truly be a "second career" rather than just a "hobby that makes a little money on the side" I'd consider investing in a better camera and a better editing program.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

tinyliny said:


> I think what you guys are talking about is the difference between portrait photography, and art photography.
> 
> the photo of the pinto horse's rear, with the fence behind it is attractive in an artsy sense, due to the repitition of color and vertical lines.


Exactly. This photo is not so much about what's in frame but the similarities between the mare's ear and the fence and the grit.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Beautiful Arabian gelding.


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## GMA100 (Apr 8, 2016)

Ok, @Hoofpic. I'm gonna insert my opinion here......I think you take really lovely photos! Would I buy any of them? No. If I wanted to get some nice pictures of me and my horse and I came across you, then I would definitely pay you to take pictures of us! To me, those pictures you have are fantastic, but they don't mean anything to me, so I wouldn't buy them! 


Here are some photos I took of my dogs and edited. I love them! To me, these are worth a lot. But I wouldn't expect you to like them, because these aren't your dogs.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Zexious said:


> Though I've never dabbled in professional photography, I can say (after conversations with those who have) that it is a fickle, difficult business.
> 
> I agree with what's being said on this page, and would suggest that you need to determine what you want to specialize in. Do you want to focus on artistic shots? Do you want to shoot at shows and events? Do you want to offer portraits?
> Highly skilled photographers (I have the pleasure of knowing one!) can do all of the above. But each one takes a very different eye, because you're catering to a different type of client.
> ...


I want to be known as someone who can do it all. 



> If you want this to truly be a "second career" rather than just a "hobby that makes a little money on the side" I'd consider investing in a better camera and a better editing program.


Trust me, my gear and programs are fine. It's about the photographer, not the camera. If you think you need $2000 pro lenses to start off in the industry, then many people will fail. It's about who is behind the camera. That's why many pros can take better photos with a smartphone than many amateurs can with a pro camera,


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I agree that you need that 'eye', but you do also need that equipment
My son invested thousands and thousands of dollars in cameras and lenses
Have you watched some established equine photographers and noted the equipment that they use?


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

To bad my scanner is not working, as I could post some pictures that my son took, that are truly artistic, have appeared in the Calendar the ApHC puts out and various other places
I can take okay pictures, like many you have posted, but they are not in that league


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Smilie said:


> I agree that you need that 'eye', but you do also need that equipment
> My son invested thousands and thousands of dollars in cameras and lenses


Yes but there has to be balance. If you want to get really good, you start off with one entry level cam and one lens until you get the foundation down pat before moving on.

Theres a lot to be said that a good photographer will find ways to get the most out of any gear that they are using, no matter how old it is.



> Have you watched some established equine photographers and noted the equipment that they use?


Yes and I know what they shoot with. I can usually gauge by just looking from a distance and then knowing the industry and the technology and what manufacturers put out what, I can usually tell what they are using without asking or getting too close up.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Artsy or not, doubt anyone would want to purchase it!


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

I would not pay for a picture of my horse's rear. I've got a painting from Paris that my brother gave me hanging on my wall, next to a lovely picture of an angel that uses photography/photoshop and painting together in one. I sure as heck do not want to put up a picture of ANY horse's rear next to those.

I also have never seen any pictures featuring a horse's rear and little to nothing else in any of my horse calendars.

A rear view of horse and handler/rider is nice, if done tastefully. Out of the three you posted, I only like the first.

You can believe what you want, but the market HERE is telling you that it would not pay for such a photo.

Just going to put this out there. My husband and I have an 'artsy' type business that is growing and doing pretty well. We write and publish material for RPG games. With all of our material, we playtest it several times on different people and then get their opinions. If there is something that the majority does not like (which actually has never happened to us even once yet), we cut or change it. We often make changes at our discretion over a single person's recommendation and opinion. Disregarding your market (which is these people) is a fatal mistake.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

@Hoofpic, you ask is it difficult to become an equine photographer, answer is, for you, a resounding YES it is difficult. 

You are talking to your potential customer base here, the amateur horse owner, and you reject any feedback that you are given.

By all means take pictures that please you, that is a hobby, if you are going to be a professional you have to take pictures that please us, your customer.

For instance the discussion about taking pictures of horses rear ends did not register at all with you....QH people love big butts on their horses, they would love a great booty shot of their horse, done right, an Arabian owner wants to see a beautiful head and neck, and it is your job as a photographer to take a great shot, making that head and neck appear as long and slender as possible.

I am no photographer, but I take 400 or so at a show, and will only share a few, because while my technical skills are sadly lacking, I do know what the rider is looking for in my discipline, and anything that shows horse or rider in less than good light is binned.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Hoofpic, I don't want to come across as abrasive, but I'm uncertain why you bother making threads asking for suggestions, when you're unwilling to take them.

If you're just a hobbyist, I see no reason why you couldn't "do it all." That said, if you're going to try to turn it into something lucrative, I personally think you'd be doing yourself a disservice by not picking a specialty, really fine tuning your work, and constructing a website that appeals to your target demographic. (which will not be the same, depending on what type of equine photography you choose to do) At least, at this point in your trajectory of learning.

I can say by looking at your pictures (and with the knowledge that you're working with a $500 camera) that a nicer piece of equipment will help you. Just saying. Because your eye is lacking, particularly in regards to lighting, a better camera, better editing software, and the knowledge of how to use both will help you. 
It's true that a truly skilled photographer can take beautiful shots with any piece of equipment. But, let's be realistic here, do you think that's you?

I have hired photographers for several events, both horse related and non. I've purchased portrait sessions for both of my horses, purchased shots from professionals at shows of various USEF ratings, and have hired photographers to come out for clinics. And, frankly, there's nothing on this thread that I see that would make me say "Yes, this is the person I want to hire."


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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

I think this thread is running the risk of doing what a lot of long threads do and getting stuck on a single point and chasing its tail without actually developing or helping as much as everyone hopes it will; plus I feel as if we've got stuck on the horse-bum-shots aspect which is a small area when one considers all of equine photography. 

I'd encourage you Hoofpic to take up my idea presented earlier. Pick a handful (3 or so) pictures and post them up in a new thread (that way its hasn't got the bulk of this one and its easy to focus on those few pics only). Have a read through this How to structure your posts to get critiques on your work (C&C) | Photography Forum (only to save me typing it all out again) and put your settings, gear, situation and views in addition to the photos. The video of yourself idea is neat; but in truth reading and getting you to write it down is all part of the learning process. It also lets you allow us to get inside your head a bit - to hear what you like/dislike about your own work not just have our feedback. 

From there its a lot easier to have people give guiding comments.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Zexious said:


> Hoofpic, I don't want to come across as abrasive, but I'm uncertain why you bother making threads asking for suggestions, when you're unwilling to take them.
> 
> If you're just a hobbyist, I see no reason why you couldn't "do it all." That said, if you're going to try to turn it into something lucrative, I personally think you'd be doing yourself a disservice by not picking a specialty, really fine tuning your work, and constructing a website that appeals to your target demographic. (which will not be the same, depending on what type of equine photography you choose to do) At least, at this point in your trajectory of learning.
> 
> ...


Im not ignoring any advice, I just disagree with two thingd brought up.

1) That pics of horses rear is not appealing. Okay I get it, pics of horses rears wont be in demand in the industry, that is fine, then I will just take these types of shots for personal use and pleasure.

2) I need better gear, trust me on this, I dont. I know the industry because I work in it and do video work for a living. My gear is fine, its not a problem. You get better by age, with practice, experience. Buying better gear isnt going to pull 180s on my photos. Buying better gear gives the user more versaility, its not a magical spell.

Lightroom is the best program for photo editing. Again, my software is fine.

I have access to a lot of gear. I know for video, I have pro grade gear to do any kind of video shooting, that includes from both the video and audio side of things. My lens for my photos are fine. They are not hurting my photos. I know what are the strengths of each one and I also know each ones limitations. I work within these limitations.

You want to know something? I know people who do mostly do photography as a hobby but they freelance as well and have shot quite a bit of projects for extra money - concerts, weddings, grads, etc. A bunch of them use cameras less featured and much older than mine. They dont have any issues using cheap camera bodies.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

GMA100 said:


> Ok, @Hoofpic. I'm gonna insert my opinion here......I think you take really lovely photos! Would I buy any of them? No. If I wanted to get some nice pictures of me and my horse and I came across you, then I would definitely pay you to take pictures of us! To me, those pictures you have are fantastic, but they don't mean anything to me, so I wouldn't buy them!
> 
> 
> Here are some photos I took of my dogs and edited. I love them! To me, these are worth a lot. But I wouldn't expect you to like them, because these aren't your dogs.
> ...


Thank you for the compliments.

I like your photos. Within the first few seconds of viewing them, I was able to come up with ways to make them better but they are still good photos.

I wont critique your photos, I like them.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Zexious said:


> I can say by looking at your pictures (and with the knowledge that you're working with a $500 camera) that a nicer piece of equipment will help you..


Here is a picture that I took last Fall when out in the country. I want you to take a guess on how much you think that camera that I shot this photo with retailed for brand new. 

I will give you a hint, there are many pro photographers who have gotten rid of some of their pro gear in favour of this camera or added this as a B cam. There are many diehard hobbyists who have gotten rid of their pro gear in favour of this camera. Not because this camera was better or as good as their pro gear, but because this camera couldn't be beat for it's bang for your buck, versatility, and price, DESPITE the hardware in this camera being nowhere near top of the line and it doesn't hold a candle to my current gear in terms of flexibility and low light usage.

But this camera has won many awards and has been a huge seller. It came out 4 years ago. It's predecessor just came out last Fall and has a hot seller because for the price and what the camera offers, it can't be beat. The tech in it is very very good but definitely not anywhere near pro grade but many professionals are using it today because it performs up to and exceeds their expectations.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

While we are playing lets guess, good game, what outfit did I use to shoot this?


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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

Darn it people stripping the exif info is not how we play "lets guess the camera" games! 


It's perfectly fine to disagree when it comes to critique. If done right its opening up the conversation to a higher level of dialogue which goes beyond "I don't like this" into the meaning behind the viewpoints involved. It's why I suggested a new thread because then you limit the conversations whilst this one is going everywhere all at once in multiple directions. 


As for gear; gear is about performance and potential. Higher level gear gives you increased performance and increased potential. This is not to say that lower level gear cannot perform well nor has no potential; but that it won't have "as much" as higher level gear. Thus it becomes a point where the photographer has to pick equipment that fits their budget with their situation and their output needs. If the camera and lens keep up with the situations you're in (and honestly if you're outside in good light you're ok - if you're indoors you'll suddenly want that f2.8 aperture unless you've got a very good performing ISO range on your camera) then go with that.

Playing the "pros get great shots" is a kinda silly way to play as you can get "great shots" with first generation digital cameras. The performance though might be limited; the outputs too; and the potential range of situations it can work in drastically limited. With todays cameras even entry level do a very very good job of things. Most professionals and serious hobbyists ( with budget) do gravitate toward at least the mid to upper range equipment to increase their working limits and potential and performance.



Equipment discussions get so easily blown out of proportion because in an artistic area its essentially a technical element. And you'll get the odd person throw in "Well if I had a standard bit of paper and HB pencil I could sketch fantastic things" or rather to say that other artistic mediums don't have gear-chats (which is ignorant to say the least - other mediums most certainly DO have huge chats about the best pencil; the best water colours; the best clay; the best canvas - the main difference being that most of their kit doesn't cost as much as a camera lens )


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

Hoofpic said:


> You've obviously never seen shots like this before (which I'm very much capable in taking these shots if given the oppurtunity).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Did you takes these shots? If not, do you have permission to post them?


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## 6gun Kid (Feb 26, 2013)

Hoofpic said:


> . If all you do is take boring headshots straight on each time, you will be known as a generic and run of the mill photographer. .


 If you insist on taking pictures nobody will buy, you will soon be known as an unemployed photographer!


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## GMA100 (Apr 8, 2016)

Hoofpic said:


> Thank you for the compliments.
> 
> I like your photos. Within the first few seconds of viewing them, I was able to come up with ways to make them better but they are still good photos.
> 
> I wont critique your photos, I like them.


lol, the reasons they aren't good is because I'm no photographer! I do enjoy taking pictures of my dogs though! They were taken with my dads fancy Android, it does take decent pictures!


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Golden Horse said:


> While we are playing lets guess, good game, what outfit did I use to shoot this?
> 
> View attachment 907113


Iphone 4S?


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Golden Horse said:


> While we are playing lets guess, good game, what outfit did I use to shoot this?
> 
> View attachment 907113


 If you want to start something like this then would you like me to move this post into a standalone thread?
This thread is already going in too may directions


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

greentree said:


> Iphone 4S?


Good Guess, it was actually a 5S, best camera is the one that you have with you at the time :wink:
@Overread threads have a life of their own, trying to turn them can be like Canute holding back the sea, or getting Fergie to approach the half open roller door, either difficult or impossible. 

In this thread the OP has asked for feedback, and has got a lot of good constructive advice, but chooses to argue with most everyone, that is why things get off track........Maybe he will eventually follow your advice and start a new thread asking for feedback, but unless a person realizes that they have a lot to learn, then any amount of feedback will not help.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

jaydee said:


> If you want to start something like this then would you like me to move this post into a standalone thread?
> This thread is already going in too may directions


No, I will bow out again, the OP asked about equipment, I thought this was on topic, obviously I was wrong, I forgot the rules again.....


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

I have to agree with @*Golden Horse*. The OP ASKED for opinions on what it will take to make it in equine photography. That is a HUGE subject. Photography equipment is just one of the many sub topics that falls under "what it takes......." heading. As well as the myriad of other sub topics; composition, art, what the horse consumer wants, what the consumer is willing to pay for, editing programs, the subject of the photo. The list is endless.

So equipment choices and the discussion thereof, falls right under the original question as much as if a photo of a tail is good enough to sell commercially.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Whinnie said:


> Did you takes these shots? If not, do you have permission to post them?


Here is what is written in the actual rules regarding posting photographs :


Other - In addition, members may post pictures/videos of horses for the purpose of educating others. These pictures/videos must be obtained from a public website and must not be watermarked in any way and otherwise follow the Horse Forum rules for posting pictures and videos.

My understanding of the rules on posting photographs is that IF they are watermarked with someone else's mark, you need the owner's permission to post them. If they have your own watermark, ( must not contain actual advertising info such as website, or price), they are ok.

If you get it off the internet, with not watermark of ownership, then posting them should be ok. It's always possible that a photo from some image banks, such as Getty Images, might be posted, and Getty might insist on it's removal, but it's never happened yet.

I've copied and pasted in many photos from a Google search, in order to illustrate some point I was making. Not a crime.



As to forgetting rules, Golden Horse, here is a link to them:

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-forum-rules-community/***-horse-forum-rules-***-354/


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Oh thank you so much for linking to the rules @tinyliny, so very helpful, but I was referring to the rules that pertain to this poster....a quick perusal of the general rules do not enlighten me to the issue with my post..the OP started a "guess the equipment" I responded.....it was on topic, not rude, no profanity.

If Hoofpic wants to branch out and work as a professional photographer he will not be protected, people who pay do not make allowances, he will stand or fall on his own talent, or lack of it...


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

GMA100 said:


> lol, the reasons they aren't good is because I'm no photographer! I do enjoy taking pictures of my dogs though! They were taken with my dads fancy Android, it does take decent pictures!


No your dog photos are good but I was able to instantly come up with ways to make them better in terms of the composition. 

When I was at the BBQ party and costume party just over a week ago, I was taking photos and a couple walked by and asked me if what I was shooting was photogenic. I replied, "everything is photogenic, it's how you make it out to be" They said, "great answer!" Which is true, it all relies on how the person taking the photo sees the subject. 

For instance when I took those photos of the rocks and plants at the lake. Did I find them all that exciting to photograph? Of course not. But I make the rocks and photograph more photogenic and look better by changing the focus to a beautiful sunset.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Golden Horse said:


> Good Guess, it was actually a 5S, best camera is the one that you have with you at the time :wink:
> @Overread threads have a life of their own, trying to turn them can be like Canute holding back the sea, or getting Fergie to approach the half open roller door, either difficult or impossible.
> 
> In this thread the OP has asked for feedback, and has got a lot of good constructive advice, but chooses to argue with most everyone, that is why things get off track........Maybe he will eventually follow your advice and start a new thread asking for feedback, but unless a person realizes that they have a lot to learn, then any amount of feedback will not help.


How many times do I have to repeat myself? I am not arguing with anyone. Just because I disagree on a couple things doesn't mean that I am arguing. 

As it stands today I am much more aware of what kind of photos sell in the horse world, all thanks to you guys for telling me. I didn't know this earlier. I will change and adjust the way I shoot horses for now on. I will still have "my" kind of shots but those will be for pleasure use and not so much for business.

And for me asking what camera I shot that specific photo with is actually a very valid question because it proves my point that I don't need better gear. That's the message I was trying to get across. I already know that you get better with age, experience and knowledge. My gear is fine.


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## GMA100 (Apr 8, 2016)

Hoofpic said:


> No your dog photos are good but I was able to instantly come up with ways to make them better in terms of the composition.
> 
> When I was at the BBQ party and costume party just over a week ago, I was taking photos and a couple walked by and asked me if what I was shooting was photogenic. I replied, "everything is photogenic, it's how you make it out to be" They said, "great answer!" Which is true, it all relies on how the person taking the photo sees the subject.
> 
> For instance when I took those photos of the rocks and plants at the lake. Did I find them all that exciting to photograph? Of course not. But I make the rocks and photograph more photogenic and look better by changing the focus to a beautiful sunset.


I find all things photogenic! Well, as long as it includes nature, animals or kids lol. 

I have a dog that is as photogenic as all get out, he literally will strike a pose if I pull a camera out. I just love him! And now I'ma show off my pups :lol:


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Golden Horse said:


> Oh thank you so much for linking to the rules @*tinyliny* , so very helpful, but I was referring to the rules that pertain to this poster....a quick perusal of the general rules do not enlighten me to the issue with my post..the OP started a "guess the equipment" I responded.....it was on topic, not rude, no profanity.
> 
> If Hoofpic wants to branch out and work as a professional photographer he will not be protected, people who pay do not make allowances, he will stand or fall on his own talent, or lack of it...


Well, you said you had forgotten the rules. They are there, and they pertain to all.

I think it was just suggested that a new thread might be better for the discussion on equipment, but it's a suggestion only. I , personally, think it's part and parcel with the whole. I'd offer thoughts on equipment, but the only feedback I can knowledgeably make is with regards to composition, since it's pertinent to both photography and hand painted artwork such as I focus on.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Overread said:


> I'd encourage you Hoofpic to take up my idea presented earlier. Pick a handful (3 or so) pictures and post them up in a new thread (that way its hasn't got the bulk of this one and its easy to focus on those few pics only). Have a read through this How to structure your posts to get critiques on your work (C&C) | Photography Forum (only to save me typing it all out again) and put your settings, gear, situation and views in addition to the photos. The video of yourself idea is neat; but in truth reading and getting you to write it down is all part of the learning process. It also lets you allow us to get inside your head a bit - to hear what you like/dislike about your own work not just have our feedback.
> 
> From there its a lot easier to have people give guiding comments.


I will do this but I will probably do it in here. I don't want to start a new thread for each set of 5 new photos. It's going to be so much work to keep track of all the threads. 

Whenever I get my first oppurtunity to shoot at a show, I will most definitely record a video from first person POV to share on here.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

If you want to start something like this then would you like me to move this post into a standalone thread?
This thread is already going in too may directions
Like


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

GMA100 said:


> I find all things photogenic! Well, as long as it includes nature, animals or kids lol.
> 
> I have a dog that is as photogenic as all get out, he literally will strike a pose if I pull a camera out. I just love him! And now I'ma show off my pups :lol:
> 
> ...


I see nothing wrong with those photos, they look good. 

In the first, I would probably put more focus on his facial expression looking over. But the photo gives a bit of a mystery cause I didn't know what you shot it under nor do you know what he's looking at. I like it.

In the second, it would benefit from DOF but I think you mentioned these are off an android phone? I really like the composition.

In the last pic, I would probably lay down on the grass and take the photo with the camera right along the grass to give the viewer the feeling that they are right next to him laying with him on the grass to make it a bit more intimate. Otherwise he makes for great photos, he's a nice dog.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

These are what I would call good pictures. 

My nephew took this and he is self taught. I know there are no horses or animals in them but, his pictures sell. 

It takes hours to trek to a good place to take shots, waiting for the right lighting as the sun sets or rises. Sometimes it is luck when a sea mist rolls in making the higher points look as if they are above the clouds.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

Your nephew's photos are stunning.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

If I had to pick one specific area of equine photography that I would target, it would have to be portraiture, whether it's just the horse or horse and owner together. I want to target horse owners who would like the moments and connection between their horse(s) and them to be captured. Besides, what horse owner in the world does not want this? There is a huge market for it. Whether it's shot in a field of canola crops, down the road, in the barn, I don't care where. Capturing these shots is all about capturing the connection, bond and partnership between that horse and person. To me, this would share a lot of similarities to wedding photography and this is a field that I am very familiar with, so I can carry a lot of thoughts, concepts and techniques over.

Obviously I would not start in shows because I have never shot a show before except from the stands. I would not do jumping because for one jumping doesn't really excite me to even watch. I would not shoot dressage either. 

However, I would love to shoot gymkana and cowboy challenges because I have a lot of interest in these events and enjoy watching them. Taking photos of kids springing up on horses at a canter? I would love it!

For example, in this photo, throw a person in there standing next to the horse looking in the same direction as the horse, crop in, take out the horse in the back and this photo would be stunning. I could even shoot it flat along the fence, the possibilities are endless when it comes to portraiture because you fully set up the entire scene.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Sorry, but a person in the above picture would never make it stunning. 
The fence line is dostracting, there is another horse in the background and the colours are poor. 

If a person was standing there the only thing they might do is blot out the rusty wire.

You need to learn to look at the background to enhance any picture.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Foxhunter said:


> Sorry, but a person in the above picture would never make it stunning.
> The fence line is dostracting, there is another horse in the background and the colours are poor.
> 
> If a person was standing there the only thing they might do is blot out the rusty wire.
> ...


Well I disagree with you.

How would adding a person be bad?

How is the fence line distracting? If that was shot with just the horse and no fence, it would be boring.

Colours are poor? Really? I changed the colour temp for a reason. 

There was 32 horses in this one field, you can't control everything. Like shooting wildies, you have to take what's given to you at times. A shot is still better than no shot. I wait for that horse in the back to leave the frame and next thing you know that horse I want to capture along the fence has moved. Opportunity missed. You have nothing to work with after, whereas if you capture what's given to you, you at least have material to work with in post.


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## Greenmeadows (May 8, 2016)

Foxhunter said:


> These are what I would call good pictures.
> 
> My nephew took this and he is self taught. I know there are no horses or animals in them but, his pictures sell.
> 
> It takes hours to trek to a good place to take shots, waiting for the right lighting as the sun sets or rises. Sometimes it is luck when a sea mist rolls in making the higher points look as if they are above the clouds.


Those are nice, but from a totally different type of photography than what Hoofpic is looking at. It would be like putting a dressage horse against a cutting horse; they are very different, and cannot be judged the same way.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

sarahfromsc said:


> I have to agree with @*Golden Horse*. The OP ASKED for opinions on what it will take to make it in equine photography. That is a HUGE subject. Photography equipment is just one of the many sub topics that falls under "what it takes......." heading. As well as the myriad of other sub topics; composition, art, what the horse consumer wants, what the consumer is willing to pay for, editing programs, the subject of the photo. The list is endless.
> 
> So equipment choices and the discussion thereof, falls right under the original question as much as if a photo of a tail is good enough to sell commercially.


 I totally agree with you that equipment plays a major part in producing successful photographs.
The OP started out asking 'How hard is it to crack it as an Equine Photographer' not what do I need to be an Equine Photographer so I assume at some point the topic went off track 
What I don't understand is what a sort of 'guess what I used to take this photo quiz' has to do with giving actual product details. It sounded as if she wanted members to offer answers.


Staying on track with the first post and the thread title - its very hard to become a successful income earning photographer of any sort and even harder if you try to specialize in one particular thing. 
It doesn't matter if you have the best equipment in the world if the market isn't big enough you won't make a living out of it - maybe just a sideline/hobby that will never pay for itself
I don't know about Canada but horse events in the UK usually have an official photographer on site and don't allow other photographers to go there and take photos that they then try to sell to the people - or even give away. 
To get clients who want you to go to their property to take photos you need to be really excellent at it and be able to produce really arty work because its so easy for anyone to buy a halfway decent camera and take good photos now.
I know a few people who are very good at what they do who produce a limited number of calendars a year using their own work and sell at the smaller one off type of stores but they don't make enough money from it to live on - they have other jobs for that.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Here is another photo which I happen to not only really like, but it's one of my favourites. Obviously it would be nice to not have the foals tail in the way of the studs face, but if I waited longer, the dad would no longer be scratching the foal on the withers and the other foal would not be looking towards me. 










Sure you can be sitting waiting for the perfect shot but for one, not everyone has all the time in the world to wait for perfect shots and I've been down that road before, if you wait for perfect shots, you will miss a lot of opportunities that you regret. And what fun is that? More photos you take = more photos to view in post and evaluate. This is how you get better by viewing your material. More material to view means more room to get better. It only makes sense. Otherwise you would see pro photographers come home from sporting events with a grand total of 25 shots taken. This is why it's always been said to take LOTS of photos if you want to get better.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

This thread hasn't even touched on the theft of photos. If I liked any of the OP's photos, there is nothing stopping me from right clicking (I am using Windows) and saving the image to my computer. People look at their photos online, download them, and post them on Facebook, Instagram, etc. They feel no need to buy photos. Even if there is a Watermark that says "proof" across it or as one photographer had on his photos "stolen from ____ Photography". Every professional horse show photographer I know has had their business hurt by this.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

updownrider said:


> This thread hasn't even touched on the theft of photos. If I liked any of the OP's photos, there is nothing stopping me from right clicking (I am using Windows) and saving the image to my computer. People look at their photos online, download them, and post them on Facebook, Instagram, etc. They feel no need to buy photos. Even if there is a Watermark that says "proof" across it or as one photographer had on his photos "stolen from ____ Photography". Every professional horse show photographer I know has had their business hurt by this.


 From the viewpoint of cracking it as a career that's very true though using a watermark right across the middle of the shot when you share photos does help protect you better than doing nothing I suppose
From the viewpoint of just being a 'real' person sharing their photographs here its also useful to think about watermarking I suppose because who knows if someone somewhere is using them on Facebook and the like to create a fake identity.


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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

Image for reference so we don't get lost:

Thoughts;

Ok so you've actually got all three horses in a nice pose and a nice pose by the stallion and foal in the background. Sadly together they don't work. The foreground is dominated by the single foal whose tail is indeed swinging out to block full view of the stallion (who based on this composition could be mare to the viewer).
When you couple the tail in the face with the slight blurring of the horses in the background compared to the one in the foreground you end up with a busy feeling that distracts. 
I can see why you like it, but as a viewer without any emotional link to the horses or the photo there's nothing special here. Yes waiting for a few seconds; moving to the right. Those are things that might well have helped. 


And yes sometimes you'll get shots like this that are ok; are a nice memory, but which are nothing special and not really great. That's ok its cheap and each one is a learning opportunity. However its important to keep it in perspective when you're learning and looking to improve. To see the flaws and go "ok so how do I fix that" or "ok so that wasn't really the best thing to do in the time was it" . 


As for pros at events; the more you photograph an event the more you'll be able to not just know but also predict where events will and won't happen. Showjumping is actually a LOT easier than a lot of sport events because the event location (should be) is the jump itself. Walk the field; look at where the sun is; look at the backgrounds - couple all that together and you can oft get an idea of where the photos are to be taken before a single horse has charged around the course. 
And yes by all means experiment as you get to that point (hint you'll always be chasing it but you'll eventually get close enough); Try different things, muck around and such. But be ready for the bread-and-butter shooting when you're aiming to earn. 


And yes if you find the time one of the best things you can do is hang out with horses. If you've got access to horses roaming free/in fields etc... then try to hang out there. You'll start to build up an understanding of behaviour and body language and you'll start to "See" those photos developing before they happen; or at least see them happening to catch.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

The OP's post number 114, asked us to guess what his camera retailed for. Hence Golden's dragon fly photo and question.

And, for what it is worth, not a bad phot for a phone camera.


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## Dehda01 (Jul 25, 2013)

Hoofpic said:


> Well I disagree with you.
> 
> How would adding a person be bad?
> 
> ...


A broken fence line is a distraction, and is UGLY. I would be HORRIFIED if one ended up in my pro pictures of my horses. I prefer not to have fences in pictures with horses if possible because they can give illusions of size, or or they are not in perfect shape they take down the general quality of the picture. 

If you were to take you picture, and put up a STURDY, straight fence, it is a cleaner image. Absolutely no wire fencing- ugly and unsafe in many cases. Makes me cringe. 

I want my pro pix to make me (or my subjects) and the horses to look the best the possibly can- best angles, best background, best lighting.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Hoofpic said:


> Well I disagree with you.
> 
> How would adding a person be bad?
> 
> ...


Absolutely so, you cannot control anything when you are dealing with free animals which is why only one in 10,000 is a great shot. Of the others there might be a dozen that would be pleasing and the rest are nothing but snapshots.



Greenmeadows said:


> Those are nice, but from a totally different type of photography than what Hoofpic is looking at. It would be like putting a dressage horse against a cutting horse; they are very different, and cannot be judged the same way.


Very true however taking scenic shots like like that requires patience and having an eye for what will be good and what will be great. 

Not a lot different to photographing animals.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

sarahfromsc said:


> The OP's post number 114, asked us to guess what his camera retailed for. Hence Golden's dragon fly photo and question.
> 
> And, for what it is worth, not a bad phot for a phone camera.


 I missed the post asking for guesstimates on the cost of his camera but still can't see how turning the thread into a quiz seems appropriate - though what that photo does prove (and I have a similarly good one of a lily taken with an old iPhone) is that you don't need to go out and spend a ton of money on equipment to start with. 
As for the horse's butt - it might not be what someone would commission if they wanted a photo of their own horse or appeal to a horse lover wanting cutesy pics or long flowing manes and tails etc but for artistic presentation, the location shot, the different textures, and colours, its an excellent piece of photography.


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

jaydee said:


> sarahfromsc said:
> 
> 
> > The OP's post number 114, asked us to guess what his camera retailed for. Hence Golden's dragon fly photo and question.
> ...


You may have missed it but no one else did.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

jaydee said:


> I missed the post asking for guesstimates on the cost of his camera but still can't see how turning the thread into a quiz seems appropriate - though what that photo does prove (and I have a similarly good one of a lily taken with an old iPhone) is that you don't need to go out and spend a ton of money on equipment to start with.
> As for the horse's butt - it might not be what someone would commission if they wanted a photo of their own horse or appeal to a horse lover wanting cutesy pics or long flowing manes and tails etc but for artistic presentation, the location shot, the different textures, and colours, its an excellent piece of photography.


Then single out the OP for going off topic, not a poster with a decent phone camera shot of a dragonfly asking what equipment was used. That dragon fly also points out the expensive equipment is not need, IF, you are the hobbist photographer. The OP, wants to make a second career......MONEY.....from his photos. Most of his shots, including the horse tushie, anyone with a horse and a cell phone could take.

The OP wanted opinions, well he left his journal and got them. He can either listen to his POTENTIAL client base, or be in denial and think some of his pictures or MONEY worthy.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

MODERATOR NOTE:

To all involved in this thread - While everyone participating has done a nice job of keeping responses within the confines of the conscientious etiquette policy, please remember the rules of the forum as well. While the OP is asking for advice, it does not have to be followed or taken, however when advice is asked for by an OP - advice should be expected to follow.

Please pay particular attention to the below rules:

3. Do not bring arguments/drama to this Forum from other forums and do not carry arguments/drama from one thread to another. 

15- Posts cannot be removed, unless they violate the rules.
Removing your posts would ruin the threads they are a part of. For that reason, once you post, your posts become a part of the Horse Forum and will not be removed. 

17 - No cyberbullying
This includes but is not limited to the tormenting, threatening, harassing, humiliating, embarrassing or otherwise targeting of any person of any age. Classification is subject to moderator interpretation.

Thank you and continue on.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

If none of us are actually Equine photography specialists, making a living at equine photography, then the only way we could in any way contribute to answering the OP's original query would be from the point of view of horse owners, who might become his future clients, and give feedback from the point of view of the 'client'. Meaning, What sort of shot we would like to buy, or not. when we might hire a pro, and how much we might be willing to pay.

If anyone here IS an equine photographer/pro, then they might be able to offer more succinct advise.

I'm an artist. the only thing I can offer is a critique of a photo, itself. no more, no less.
And, whether it will/can stand out enough from the myriad of amateur stuff on the market to make it actually 'buy-worthy".

tough market. not impossible, tho.
My experience has always been a bit like this: I am amazed at the utter crapola that people will shell out money to buy . . . . this in terms of so-called 'art' for sale. It isn't always a matter of being good at *art*, but more a matter of being good at '*marketing*'.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

sarahfromsc said:


> Then single out the OP for going off topic, not a poster with a decent phone camera shot of a dragonfly asking what equipment was used. That dragon fly also points out the expensive equipment is not need, IF, you are the hobbist photographer.


I was just stating that I know 100% that my gear is fine. I asked a question on what kind of camera that you think i shot that specific photo with and of course no one stepped up and answered it, because you all know that I am right. I was trying to prove my point.

This photo was shot with a BRIDGE camera and it costed me $700...CDN. It's nowhere near as capable as what I am currently using right now. So if you think I need better gear than what I am currently using, than just how was I able to get such a picture from a BRIDGE camera that is worth much less and much less capable? Exactly. It's about the person using the camera and not the camera itself. 












> The OP, wants to make a second career......MONEY.....from his photos. Most of his shots, including the horse tushie, anyone with a horse and a cell phone could take.


Yes you are right, you absolutely can get photos like this with a cell phone. Easy as pie. Why even bother dropping 2500K on camera gear and lenses when smartphones can match it for IQ.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

jaydee said:


> I missed the post asking for guesstimates on the cost of his camera but still can't see how turning the thread into a quiz seems appropriate - though what that photo does prove (and I have a similarly good one of a lily taken with an old iPhone) is that you don't need to go out and spend a ton of money on equipment to start with.
> As for the horse's butt - it might not be what someone would commission if they wanted a photo of their own horse or appeal to a horse lover wanting cutesy pics or long flowing manes and tails etc but for artistic presentation, the location shot, the different textures, and colours, its an excellent piece of photography.


Thank you.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

It sounds like the long and the short of this is that it's VERY HARD to crack it as a professional equine photographer.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

Hoofpic said:


> I was just stating that I know 100% that my gear is fine. I asked a question on what kind of camera that you think i shot that specific photo with and of course no one stepped up and answered it, because you all know that I am right. I was trying to prove my point.
> 
> This photo was shot with a BRIDGE camera and it costed me $700...CDN. It's nowhere near as capable as what I am currently using right now. So if you think I need better gear than what I am currently using, than just how was I able to get such a picture from a BRIDGE camera that is worth much less and much less capable? Exactly. It's about the person using the camera and not the camera itself.
> 
> ...


I am not sure what the devil you are trying to convey here. You state some of these photos were taken with a entry level camera. I have said they look it. Those shots are not money producers. Nor are they any better than shots I took of horses and scenery when I was out West. So, you proved my point that a hobbist does not need quality equipment. A cell phone or an entry level camera will do. However, a person looking at making their photography hobby a second career will have to have better equipment producing better quaility of photos.

You have some photos that are nice. They are nice to look at and 'oh and awww' over because of scenery color or a cute horse face. The operative word is 'some'. But I also have some nice photos I have taken over the years. Out of hundreds and hundreds, I only have some. And I am not even sure if it is the quaility of those photos as much has it is an emotional memory for me. They mean something to me on a personal level.

If I was truly interested in taking a hobby, let us say photography, to the next level, instead of posting photos on a horse forum, I would want post them to a photography forum and would want, and seek those opinions, and swallow my pride and take the construtive criticism.

Most of us on this horse forum can truly only give opinions on what types of photos we are WILLING to pay for. And that is what we have done.


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

I agree with the above - if you really want to know how to make it as a photographer, your best bet is to post on a photography forum. I know zilch about photography; but what I can tell you (same as what others have said here) is what I'd be willing to pay for. 

My cousin is trying to earn her living as a professional photographer. I say 'trying' b/c she actually can't make a living doing what she does. She has a professional website, leases a studio and has worked hard for YEARS making connections in the city she lives in. She has all the fancy editing programs, expensive cameras, and has taken numerous photography courses. She is very talented and I do have some of her photos in my house. She will also take on any photography job she can b/c, let's face it; as a struggling artist she needs to. 

However, she cannot rely on her photography business alone to keep her going. Some months she is crazy busy, and others she has nothing. 

All I'm trying to convey is that it is not an easy industry to get in to and you do need to be able to handle constructive criticism - that is the only way to get better. It is difficult to not take things personally, but that is something you need to work on; otherwise you will never get ahead. 

You will also need to lower your expectations somewhat - you say you don't want to do generic things, however that is likely the only way to get started and get a name built up for yourself. Perhaps you do weddings, etc, however from there you meet people who might want to have you come out to do horse portraits or whatever. I believe that is how the industry works.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

May I describe my family to you? 
My DH has a degree (yes, 4 yr) in Photography. He knows an f-stop from an aperture. He can develop the negatives and do prints in a darkroom. (Archaic practices these days). We met in college, and I attempted Photo 101. Twice. I gave up, because my horse trainer brain could just not make those meters, numbers and letters make sense. I got an A on the photo portion, though, because I cheated with an automatic camera, and my DH helped me get the good negatives and prints. I had a decent eye, being observant and quick to raise the camera, and that almost got me through, but I got tired of it, so I dropped the classes!!

Does he do photography now? Heck, no. Only with a Samsung phone.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

sarahfromsc said:


> I am not sure what the devil you are trying to convey here. You state some of these photos were taken with a entry level camera. I have said they look it. Those shots are not money producers. Nor are they any better than shots I took of horses and scenery when I was out West. So, you proved my point that a hobbist does not need quality equipment. A cell phone or an entry level camera will do. However, a person looking at making their photography hobby a second career will have to have better equipment producing better quaility of photos.
> 
> You have some photos that are nice. They are nice to look at and 'oh and awww' over because of scenery color or a cute horse face. The operative word is 'some'. But I also have some nice photos I have taken over the years. Out of hundreds and hundreds, I only have some. And I am not even sure if it is the quaility of those photos as much has it is an emotional memory for me. They mean something to me on a personal level.
> 
> ...


Well again I disagree with you, I can gaurentee you that I could find someone (obviously not on here) who would buy that second photograph of the ducks. Remember my shots of the sunsets from the countryside? I've had a few people offer to buy it from me to have it framed in their home or wherever. I'm talking local people who work in the photography industry. Sure, all of my photos aren't frame or print worthy, but at least some are.

How many times do I need to say it, I do NOT need better gear, in other words, my gear is fine. Do you know how good and how evolved camera technology has evolved over the past decade? There is a well known camera store that I go to here locally here and many of the people working there do photography on the side for extra money, whether it's portraiture, street, night, they all have their own specialty. Many of these guys have been in the industry for 20+ years, they know their stuff, they know the industry and they know what it's like to be a paid photographer. 

Even they admit that there is nothing to ashamed about or lacking in not using absolute top of the line pro gear. Why? Because they know that the technology has evolved so well over the years that (just like TV's, computers, any other form of electronics), manufacturing costs come down, consumer prices come down and you get a much better product today for less money than you would have years ago. This is a proven fact. Anyone working in the industry know this. 

Having an entry level DSLR body doesn't matter, it has the features, hardware and capability that higher end bodies have. It has the "EXACT" same sensor and AF system that the pro bodies have. Could I have blown 2K for a D500 pro body? Yes but I didn't choose it because what I have now has many features (that I heavily favour) that pro Nikon bodies lack. I mean I could get really technical if you want me to but to me there is no point. The body that I currently own and use stands out from the rest of the Nikon bodies because it has several features that none of the pro bodies have. 

This is why I bought it because this is how I prefer to shoot and use a camera."YOU BUY WHAT WORKS FOR YOU" Also, two of my lens that I own are commonly used by pros in their setups, they most definitely can be used professionally. The other two still can, they are not entry level but also not top of the line, they are middle of the pack. Obviously there are limitations, but I know what those limitations are and I work within them. It is about the person using the camera that matters. My gear is more than capable of achieving what I want to achieve.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Sorry, but the image sensor size of a digital camera absolutely make a difference in mid-light and action(EQUINE) photography. This reduces the delay in the process.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

tinyliny said:


> If none of us are actually Equine photography specialists, making a living at equine photography, then the only way we could in any way contribute to answering the OP's original query would be from the point of view of horse owners, who might become his future clients, and give feedback from the point of view of the 'client'. Meaning, What sort of shot we would like to buy, or not. when we might hire a pro, and how much we might be willing to pay.
> 
> If anyone here IS an equine photographer/pro, then they might be able to offer more succinct advise.
> 
> ...


I have mostly been reading along and only added my bit about photo theft until I read your post. Now I am curious. 

Since no one that has posted in this thread is an Equine photography specialist making a living at equine photography as far as I know, which is specifically the information the OP wanted to know about when he titled his thread *How hard is it to crack it as an equine photographer?*, why is this thread here? He didn't ask for client feedback, he wants direction and advice about a side career.


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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

I think perhaps we are overthinking things as we are trying to now fathom the meaning of the thread itself 

Perhaps it might be time to lock/end this one and let the OP start a fresh thread on critique and feedback and other aspects as this one is getting quite the mess of content to the point where some are totally lost and others are chipping in and out - even for the OP its got to be hard to sift through replies to find the important information relating to them and their photography.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

I could buy a pro body, but if it doesn't work for me, then what good is it? Anyone who has bought many cameras in their lifetime knows that buying cameras is all about making sacrifices. There is no "perfect" camera out there, they don't exist, you need to be able to list which features you absolutely need and which you are willing to sacrifice. This is exactly why I have 3 cameras. This is exactly why many other hobbyists and pros have multiple cameras. They are all used for completely different purposes and situations. 

The camera that I use for my video work, it's nowhere near as capable as my Nikon for pure photo taking. But yet this is a camera that is very commonly used by pros in the industry for photo work. Is it absolute top of the line, bleeding edge technology for taking stills? No, far from it. It is for video, but not for stills. But people use it because it meets their expectations and it works. 

What you really need for free lance pro photography, except for being skilled, experienced and talented, is the gear that would be suitable for the job and not necessarily the greatest, the bestest or the most expensive. If I lugged in all my gear to the camera store and laid it all out on the counter and told the guys that I need better gear, this gear isn't cutting it, I can absolutely gaurentee you, that the first question they ask me is "what's wrong with this gear?" 

I've known a lot of people over the years who have done paid projects on the side (mostly wedding) and many used bodies and lenses that didn't cost much, but were hired again and again. Gee wonder why? Could it be because they know how to use the camera amazingly well?

I'm not going to go on about this, seriously this is just ridiculous.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

For anyone interested, I will be starting up a thread in the proper section and will start by posting 5 new photos for critique, as well as the big 3 settings, etc. 

I just took these last night so NOBODY has seen them yet. I have about 17 or 18 to share but will start with 5 for now.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

updownrider said:


> I have mostly been reading along and only added my bit about photo theft until I read your post.  Now I am curious.
> 
> Since no one that has posted in this thread is an Equine photography specialist making a living at equine photography as far as I know, which is specifically the information the OP wanted to know about when he titled his thread *How hard is it to crack it as an equine photographer?*, why is this thread here? He didn't ask for client feedback, he wants direction and advice about a side career.



I'm guessing the OP doesn't have anyone else to ask, and he may have hoped that members here had used the services of a pro equine photographer and could share their experiences. But, for the very best feedback to his question, he could ask a similar question on a photography forum, I suppose.

I don't personally mind a thread that meanders. Unless it's one poster jumping onto another person's thread asking things that hijack the thread for their own purposes.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

You seem unable to look past the suggestion for better gear. I apologize if I (or anyone else) offended you by saying this. It was just a piece of advice (which you seem to be asking for, by making a thread?). As you were so quick to point out, there's nothing forcing you to take it.
It's interesting to me that you seem interested in none of the advice people are willing to offer (true, we are not professional photographers, so maybe that's why?), and equally interesting that you seem particularly unresponsive to things that are being said by multiple people--does that make it a valid point, or dog piling? I'm not sure.

My answer to your thread (as a client and as someone with multiple friends in the industry) is: very hard. I see it in the numerous stolen photographs online, and I hear it in the complaints of the people I know. As I said in my first post, the industry is fickle, and it's not easy to get your foot in the door.

But, really, you seem very confident in your gear, your work, as well as in your ability to market and sell it in spite of the discussion here.
You seem uninterested in the potential difficulty (good for you!), so why not just give it a go?


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

A. I have never disagree with you regarding your equipment at this stage of your photography hobby. What I have stated is, if you want to go truly professional you may need to rethink that.

B. Those are geese not ducks. Helpful to know the subject matter.

C. I hope this link works, because here is a beautiful photo of a kingfisher. And what I believe makes the photo stand out is he decided on his subject, the kingfisher, and not the background. It also works, because the background is fall foliage I would guess due to the golds, yellows, and reds. The photo would not be near as stunning if the background foliage was summer. The king fisher, with his coloring, would be lost in the green and blue hues of summer foliage.

It took the photographer six years and 720k photos to get this one picture.

http://PetaPixel.com


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

tinyliny said:


> I'm guessing the OP doesn't have anyone else to ask, and he may have hoped that members here had used the services of a pro equine photographer and could share their experiences. But, for the very best feedback to his question, he could ask a similar question on a photography forum, I suppose.
> 
> I don't personally mind a thread that meanders. Unless it's one poster jumping onto another person's thread asking things that hijack the thread for their own purposes.


Many did share their experiences. As for a hijack, I do not know what you are talking about. I looked through this thread and I do not see anything inappropriate but I do see pretty much an equal amount of likes to posts. This thread is in a general forum, and threads meander as you said, and will go off topic, and back on topic. They are discussions which require input from members of the forum. Journals, we have been told, are private.


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## caberto (Jan 6, 2017)

I haven't read all posts as this thread has grown very big... I am not a professional photographer so I don't have a answer for the OP. I do photography as a side/hobby, and I have been paid for some of my work.

Here are a few shots I took at a mounted shooters event nearby - click on each picture to get a slightly larger and sharper image. I try not to get typical portrait shots... for one, they don't interest me, and I try to get shots of people (and objects/landscapes, etc.) that viewers of my shots and my subjects wouldn't ordinarily see. I try to capture something different that's interesting. I think that goes a long way to separate yourself from what other people can/will shoot.

Good luck in your endeavor, and as with anything, it will probably be a work in progress that can be fun as you go :cowboy:


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

3 and 5 are the types of shots that interest me. I think those are great shots but I'm not a photographer, although I do play one in the bleachers at the local baseball tournaments...


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

sarahfromsc said:


> B. Those are geese not ducks. Helpful to know the subject matter.
> 
> C. I hope this link works, because here is a beautiful photo of a kingfisher. And what I believe makes the photo stand out is he decided on his subject, the kingfisher, and not the background. It also works, because the background is fall foliage I would guess due to the golds, yellows, and reds. The photo would not be near as stunning if the background foliage was summer. The king fisher, with his coloring, would be lost in the green and blue hues of summer foliage.
> 
> ...


Sorry but that image does nothing for me.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

I connected to 3 and 5 immediately. What I see in 3 is that the horse is just about to drop off to sleep, the right eye is closed already and the left is closing (I have no idea if that is true, but that is the story I made up as soon as I saw it)


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

Hoofpic said:


> Sorry but that image does nothing for me.


It may not do anything for you, but as a fellow photographer, can you appreciate the skill, timing, and patience it took to capture the shot? I am trying to learn what you do like.


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## caberto (Jan 6, 2017)

updownrider said:


> I connected to 3 and 5 immediately. What I see in 3 is that the horse is just about to drop off to sleep, the right eye is closed already and the left is closing (I have no idea if that is true, but that is the story I made up as soon as I saw it)


Exactly... this is why I like these types of shots. They can tell a story or give a sense of something that is unique to the viewer.

The other shots are mostly for the subject/rider's sake - usually they are very interested in those, but no one else is, which is normal. Almost like portraits.

Thanks!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Well, that gets to the point that photography, as an artform, is subjective. I personally LOVE that photo! and can appreciate how hard it must have been to get it.

And it reinforced the idea that if you wish to make a living out of having people pay you to photograph their horses, you have to understand and follow THEIR idea of what is beautiful, since you work for THEM.

If you want to follow your own esthetic and take photos for what you feel is their artistic merit, then you will have some folks who will like your work, others who go 'meh', like you did for the kingfisher photo.

Being an artist is hard, and if you open your 'art' up for critique, it's really hard to hear what people say. Some folks just don't like what you like. In photography, there are certain absolutes, such as focus and lighting, but even there, you can use your own approach, so there's not hard 'right' and 'wrong'.

I look forward to seeing your photo critique thread, and if you really do want to hear an artist's opinion, I'll give you a plain, un-sugarcoated , fair one.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Hoofpic said:


> Sorry but that image does nothing for me.


.

I have never ridden a good reining or cutting horse and know little to nothing about that scene yet I can appreciate the skill it takes to reach a professional level. 

So, as you want to break into equine photography yet you cannot appreciate the skill and talent in the kingfisher photo beggars belief and showsa closed mind. 

If you were to hang the kingfisher picture and your one of the geese side by side I wonder which would be more saleable?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Maybe he can appreciate the skill, but just doesn't 'like' it. I often see artwork that must have taken years to learn the skills involved, and hours upon hours to create, but I don't enjoy looking at it, don't engage with it, would not want it in my home , etc. I don't 'like' it.

I'd put that kingfisher shot on my wall any day of the week!


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

updownrider said:


> It may not do anything for you, but as a fellow photographer, can you appreciate the skill, timing, and patience it took to capture the shot? I am trying to learn what you do like.


I do appreciate the time and skill on it, it's just not my taste. I look at it, and I don't make a connection.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

caberto said:


> Exactly... this is why I like these types of shots. They can tell a story or give a sense of something that is unique to the viewer.
> 
> Thanks!


Exactly. 

And this is why I want to do equine portraiture and why wedding photography is so popular because you tell a story and are able to give a sense of feel to the audience.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

I have created a new thread in the pictures section for evaluation of 5 photos at a time.

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-pictures/my-picture-portfolio-evaluation-thread-767369/#post10089481


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

Hoofpic said:


> I was just stating that I know 100% that my gear is fine. I asked a question on what kind of camera that you think i shot that specific photo with and of course no one stepped up and answered it, because you all know that I am right. I was trying to prove my point.
> 
> This photo was shot with a BRIDGE camera and it costed me $700...CDN. It's nowhere near as capable as what I am currently using right now. So if you think I need better gear than what I am currently using, than just how was I able to get such a picture from a BRIDGE camera that is worth much less and much less capable? Exactly. It's about the person using the camera and not the camera itself.
> 
> ...





Hoofpic said:


> Sorry but that image does nothing for me.



Finally you get it. Not everyone is going to like your photos, and when posters don't, you become somewhat snippy when someone tells you it does nothing for them. You have an angry retort along the lines of, 'why don't you like it? What is there not to like about it?'

So, my question to you is, what don't you like about it?


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

Hoofpic said:


> Any feedback? Ive just recently decided that I will be persuing equine photography and videography as a side career. I do video work full time so I guess you could say thats a perk that I have over other equine photographers.
> 
> Ive heard stories about how its very difficult industry to have success at and it can be exhausting and gruelling.
> 
> ...



Any career, done right, is exhausting and grueling to be successful. If you are looking for something easy, this isn't it. Additionally, you would have to work with people who have money so you can get paid for your work unless you are going to tour your work at fairs and horse shows and hope people buy. People frustrate you. Why did wedding photography exhaust you? Horse show people will be the same. If you are going to travel around taking shots like you have posted here you will be losing money because it appears you are not really willing to learn the ins and outs of proper frame, content and the like from professionals who are already successful. Maybe you should set up a website and see how it goes, trying to sell your stuff. I don't understand why you ask questions and get mad when you don't like the answers you get.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Don't forget, a horse show photographer only has ONE chance to get a shot that exhibitors will actually BUY....the shot with the ribbon or trophy, in action, is the money shot, and it HAS to be GOOD.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

sarahfromsc said:


> Finally you get it. Not everyone is going to like your photos, and when posters don't, you become somewhat snippy when someone tells you it does nothing for them. You have an angry retort along the lines of, 'why don't you like it? What is there not to like about it?'
> 
> So, my question to you is, what don't you like about it?


It's just not my cup of tea that's all. Good photo, but it doesn't connect with me.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

greentree said:


> Don't forget, a horse show photographer only has ONE chance to get a shot that exhibitors will actually BUY....the shot with the ribbon or trophy, in action, is the money shot, and it HAS to be GOOD.


Yes I know.


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

Hoofpic said:


> It's just not my cup of tea that's all. Good photo, but it doesn't connect with me.



Are saying that you like the composition, color, background, lighting and everything about it except the subject matter?


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Whinnie said:


> Are saying that you like the composition, color, background, lighting and everything about it except the subject matter?


You don't get it do you.


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

Hoofpic said:


> You don't get it do you.



Nope. What do you mean by "Not my cup of tea"? That is not an explanation for the question posed about why you didn't like the photo.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Not my cup of tea is sufficient when justifying a like or dislike of artwork. It's not always a matter of reason. It's subjective and personal. And certainly doesn't require defending.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I have to agree. Not my cup of tea is a fine response. He didn't say the picture was bad - just said it didn't interest him personally. 

I think it's a great shot. I'm not someone that would run out and buy a bird calendar so I wouldn't be hanging it on my wall - but it's certainly good enough for me to take a moment to admire it.


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

tinyliny said:


> Not my cup of tea is sufficient when justifying a like or dislike of artwork. It's not always a matter of reason. It's subjective and personal. And certainly doesn't require defending.


Nothing wrong with asking why either? I mean perfectly happy to continually ask why people don't like the pictures of his horses butt but when people ask why a certain picture isn't his cup of tea he doesn't have to answer.


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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

tinyliny said:


> Not my cup of tea is sufficient when justifying a like or dislike of artwork. It's not always a matter of reason. It's subjective and personal. And certainly doesn't require defending.


I find that those who wish to improve their photography, especially artistically, tend to advance a lot better if they can start to understand "why" they dislike something. Understanding of what you both like and dislike and aiming to be more than just a "like/dislike" association really helps you develop as an artist. You start to be able to dismantle a work and see what components you do and don't like and see what does and doesn't work for you - by understanding those components you can come to bring that thinking into your own creative work.


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

Being able to articulate a critique of another's photos would help a serious photographer (or any other type of artist) be objective about his/her own photos. Anyone who has taken any kind of training in art or otherwise knows that a huge part of the learning process is critiquing each others work, giving AND receiving feedback. Since this thread was all about showing shots and getting feedback, I was curious as to the OP stating a photo wasn't his cup of tea. That isn't a critique of the photography (lighting, sharpness, background, etc) that would have been valuable to the OP . My feedback was attempting to ask the OP to articulate what he saw as flaws in the photo, which is what the poster was asking. If you can't say why you don't like something, it will be difficult to be objective about your own work. I thought the OP was serious about wanting to become a professional.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

*MODERATOR NOTE:*

The Horseforum team has noticed a level of Harassment occurring within this thread. The OP has chosen not to to elaborate on a specific answer within this thread. Continually demanding an answer from the OP is not an acceptable response. Please refrain from this type of badgering.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I'm* not* a aspiring photographer...
However, I have likes and dislikes as any other person viewing pictures of snapshot quality through fine art..masterpiece style of art.
For me...if I don't like a particular kind or style of picture I don't look intensely, just a glance and keep going...no opinion given.
I don't like it so I'm not spend time trying to assess it, period. 
Sometimes you just can't put into words, you can't articulate, why you not like something...you just don't.
No different in photography than horse conformation critiquing...it is all a opinion of likes and dislikes in truth.

_hoofpic...have you considered displaying some of your pictures in photography forums for critique by professional photographers for some insight and words of wisdom?_
No answer is needed here. 
Just placing the thought here that photography forums have people that make a living doing what you would like to try...
Constructive criticism and explanation....from a very different audience.
:runninghorse2:...
_jmo..._


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Overread said:


> I find that those who wish to improve their photography, especially artistically, tend to advance a lot better if they can start to understand "why" they dislike something. Understanding of what you both like and dislike and aiming to be more than just a "like/dislike" association really helps you develop as an artist. You start to be able to dismantle a work and see what components you do and don't like and see what does and doesn't work for you - by understanding those components you can come to bring that thinking into your own creative work.


 I disagree with you on this.
Personal preferences can't really be explained and an artist will almost always develop their own style and aim their work at the type of audience that likes it. 
It's impossible to please everyone because all people have different tastes 
If you try to appeal to too wide an audience you end up losing your uniqueness and just becoming bland and ordinary. 
I don't like this painting - I couldn't even begin to explain why I don't like it because there is no reason other than it isn't to my taste and trying to understand why I don't like it wouldn't make me a better artist because I have no desire to emulate this type of work.


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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

Jaydee I think that if you can understand what you do like about something that lets you emulate it. It lets you build it into your own work and it gives you an understanding of what to do to achieve those end results. It makes your style something that you can control and manipulate as opposed to something that is totally by accident. Certainly there is always going to be an element of random and also an element of, I dislike calling it instinct, but instinctive shooting. 

Similarly understanding what you don't like helps just the same. It lets you start to understand what it is about something that you don't like. You can even take it apart and understand how it was made. Sometimes that might evne give you a new appreciation (not like but appreciation). It also means that you're studying not just going "meh don't like it" and that is the difference between just viewing and understanding art and creativity.


I also find that through both of these approaches it helps you in the long run as you also start to build up an understanding and vocabulary to articulate your thoughts to others. That language isn't often in our daily, unless one is an artist or works with them. As a result it can be quite a learning curve to build up the way of thinking. 
As said earlier this is why many artistic learning courses focus on critique as a tool; both of ones own and the creations of others. 

Of course not everyone does this; many a photography pro just picks up the camera; makes solid exposures and knows the rule of thirds and a few other little compositional theories to help. This is all about putting learning tools up for people to consider working from.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I did originally go to art college and train in Fine Art and critiquing is part of the course but that critique is about methods and materials used and how they're used (or not used) to best effect which has nothing at all to do with personal preference
Those critiques should never be about an artist working towards understanding art work in order to imitate - that does happen and its why so many budding artists fail - they just become poor imitations.
The successful artists are those that focus on producing work that stands out because its different 
I could look at a lot of industrial photography and admire the technique and composition but still not 'like' it as far as personal preference goes - i.e. I wouldn't want it on my wall.


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## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

So I'm way late to what is apparently an interesting party.

I am your subject matter. If I'm in that ring when you're photographing that local show, I'm the one whose opinion matters. I'm the one riding my butt off on the rail, aiming for the win.

Yes, I'm the "boring" Dressage rider. I can explain to you immediately why I like and dislike pictures of myself in a way that you (personally) wouldn't understand. And I don't mean that as a dig. I want my horse moving in an uphill manner. I want her working from behind and round. Which is not for the photographer to worry about, but what I look for when buying my pictures.

I've spent THOUSANDS on show pictures. I've bought pictures at absolutely every show I've gone to as a way to support the show photographer. But I also know that I'm a rarity. I've been told very few people actually buy the pictures now.

Here is also a thought. My classes are roughly 5 minutes a piece. There can be anywhere from just me to say 15 horses. The show photographer has to capture everyone in that class on the off chance someone actually purchases one. Here's also another tidbit that rings true often for our shows. They only take trotting pictures with the exception of our native costume class, which is only photographed at the canter/Hand gallop. So now you've taken that 5 minutes and shrunk it down to barely anything with a ton of subjects that are all moving and will all be looking for something different. My friend wants knees snapped up in the style well liked for English Pleasure. I want the legs extended out a bit to show the extension.

Then you have to factor in the arena. The arena that I'm riding in in the picture under my forum name is a HARD arena to shoot in. So while you could rip that photo apart and think you could do better, the fact is you probably couldn't. Not a dig, but a blatant fact knowing that particular arena and the conditions the photographer is shooting in.

I'm not always into artsy pictures unless I specifically ask for them. Which will NEVER be while I'm riding. The photographers in our area have learned I basically buy any picture where Izzie is snuggling me or I've leaned down to give her a hug, so they make sure to take some. I've bought them every single time. They've learned their client market. I do NOT want a picture of my horse's tush. Why would I want to show off that? I've seen artfully done ones in the shedrow where backsides are to the camera, but they are done in such a way the focal point is not a horse butt. It's a connection between horse and rider (on the ground).

I won't comment on cameras or upgrading or whatever since I know literally nothing. But I know what I personally like as I have truly, truly spent THOUSANDS on photos that are only digital downloads. In fact this year I think I'm already close to $600+ in cash spent on show photographs and I still have six shows left to go to.

So you say you want to shoot local shows. You've called to ask places if you can. I'd be your client market. My opinion would matter to you. If I didn't like the pictures, me and my wallet would leave without spending anything. And this is a harsh reality of shooting local shows.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I have a Rebel Canon Eos... I forget the exact name of it. It wasn't "cheap" but it's not anywhere near an expensive camera. My dad on the other hand has spent insane amounts of money on his lenses alone. He also has a massive Computer system at home just for the photographs he takes. He has won multiple awards and been published several times. I'm not sure he cares when we say... Dad - I don't like that picture. He has an eye for what he is doing and he knows what shots are the money shots. Me on the other hand.... I take 400 pictures in a weekend to get get 100 good shots.

I have entered my stuff into some of the photo competitions but never won anything. I don't have the "eye"... but the other baseball moms think I'm pretty amazing... And since they are the ones I am taking picture for...thats all that matters. I do try to get the shots they want. They like he candid ones and the dug out ones... They like the sweaty dirty kid ones... They even like the ones where the kids look like they got their butts whooped. 

These are a couple of my kid... Like I said - not the best but I do shoot what my audience is looking for (or try to) and since I take shots for my fellow parents free of charge... they complain very little!


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

One thing I just tought of and I will forsure include in my pricing is, a certain percentage will go to horse rescues.


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## GMA100 (Apr 8, 2016)

This might sound weird, but how about you build your name by going to animal shelters? Dogs and horses mostly. I've seen people on Facebook do that and they obviously let the shelter take the pictures and use them. This way, you can get some quality pictures of animals to help adopt them out and (with the permission of the shelter) post them as your work. 

Just a suggestion!


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

GMA100 said:


> This might sound weird, but how about you build your name by going to animal shelters? Dogs and horses mostly. I've seen people on Facebook do that and they obviously let the shelter take the pictures and use them. This way, you can get some quality pictures of animals to help adopt them out and (with the permission of the shelter) post them as your work.
> 
> Just a suggestion!


Thanks, this sounds like a promising suggestion. My question is do these shelters pay for professional photos? From the ones I see on their Facebook pages, they just take them casually.

One thing I've noticed with horse rescues is that some of them just have a nice camera and their barn staff just go around and take the photos that they need. Obviously, they are not pro photos, but it must be good enough for them.


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## GMA100 (Apr 8, 2016)

Hoofpic said:


> Thanks, this sounds like a promising suggestion. My question is do these shelters pay for professional photos? From the ones I see on their Facebook pages, they just take them casually.
> 
> One thing I've noticed with horse rescues is that some of them just have a nice camera and their barn staff just go around and take the photos that they need. Obviously, they are not pro photos, but it must be good enough for them.


I highly doubt that they pay for them, but you can always ask! And they don't really need a photographer, but if one of the workers took a dog on a walk, maybe to a park and you went with them and got some really nice shots, then I'm sure more people would notice the dog more than other ones! And if you had a very small watermark on the picture, then people would know who took it! 
You could possibly suggest to the shelter people that they maybe put something up that has your name on it as the shelter sponsor/photographer. 

You could maybe get them to ask people if they want you to do a photo shoot of their dog coming home, I know a lot of people want memories like that! And if you do want people to pay, then maybe do a discount for a rescue pet.


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## GMA100 (Apr 8, 2016)

I haven't really looked at this site, but it might be educational! 

https://www.sheltermephotography.org/


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

GMA100 said:


> I highly doubt that they pay for them, but you can always ask! And they don't really need a photographer, but if one of the workers took a dog on a walk, maybe to a park and you went with them and got some really nice shots, then I'm sure more people would notice the dog more than other ones! And if you had a very small watermark on the picture, then people would know who took it!
> You could possibly suggest to the shelter people that they maybe put something up that has your name on it as the shelter sponsor/photographer.
> 
> You could maybe get them to ask people if they want you to do a photo shoot of their dog coming home, I know a lot of people want memories like that! And if you do want people to pay, then maybe do a discount for a rescue pet.


Okay thanks. So basically offer free photos in exchange for having my name on it and having the photos or prints on their website, office etc?

Because I know of some very populated, busy and well known animal clinics in my area, one being a dog and equine all in one and I used to use one of their vets when at the old barn. So they definitely get more than enough traffic coming through! I would love to have my name there.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

As has been said, literally anyone can take a mediocre picture of a horse and try to pass it off as professional. If I'm going to pay good money for a picture of my horse (or any horse), it has to be exceptional. Objectively speaking, NONE of the pics I've seen you post have been anywhere near exceptional. This is nothing personal. It's just that they are shots I could have gone out and taken myself. If I'm going to drop my hard-earned money on a picture, I want it to be something I could never in a million years have gotten myself. 

Take a look at this photographer. My DH and I discovered him on our honeymoon a couple of years ago. I would readily buy ANY of his work (if I could afford it). Now, compare his work to yours...
Ken Walters - The Gallery in Williams

Also, look at his featured artists. Particularly Susan Kordish (August 2017).


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## GMA100 (Apr 8, 2016)

Hoofpic said:


> Okay thanks. *So basically offer free photos in exchange for having my name on it and having the photos or prints on their website, office etc?
> *
> Because I know of some very populated, busy and well known animal clinics in my area, one being a dog and equine all in one and I used to use one of their vets when at the old barn. So they definitely get more than enough traffic coming through! I would love to have my name there.


That's what I was thinking!


You will have to have tons of patience, because a lot or most of these animals will be afraid of knew people and environments, your camera could even be scary to them. You will have to learn how to talk gently and get them to feel comfortable, don't get a ton of pictures, just 3 or 4 nice and decent ones! Here is an article about photographing shelter animals: So you want to be a photographer in an animal shelter? ? Woof Like To Meet

It's harsh, but all in all, I would have to agree with everything she says! 




This article is cool too: Professional Photographers are Snapping Pics and Saving Shelter Pets' Lives


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

GMA100 said:


> This might sound weird, but how about you build your name by going to animal shelters? Dogs and horses mostly. I've seen people on Facebook do that and they obviously let the shelter take the pictures and use them. This way, you can get some quality pictures of animals to help adopt them out and (with the permission of the shelter) post them as your work.
> 
> Just a suggestion!


This is actually a really good suggestion. I've seen our local county animal shelter has a photographer come by and do portrait shots of the animals each week. They post it on their website and on their facebook page. It helps get the animals adopted and it gives the photographer exposure. And eventually you could write it off as a donation of your services.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Hoofpic said:


> Okay thanks. So basically offer free photos in exchange for having my name on it and having the photos or prints on their website, office etc?
> 
> Because I know of some very populated, busy and well known animal clinics in my area, one being a dog and equine all in one and I used to use one of their vets when at the old barn. So they definitely get more than enough traffic coming through! I would love to have my name there.


Offer to get a really good portrait of one of the vet's animals, have it printed portrait size (maybe 24x36), framed, for their waiting room.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

Hoofpic said:


> One thing I just tought of and I will forsure include in my pricing is, a certain percentage will go to horse rescues.


You are going to charge your clients more so you can donate their money to charity? In that case, you are not really the donor, your clients are. Won't it get complicated with taxes, too? As a client, I would rather pay for the photography work, and then choose my own charity to support. But :shrug: maybe that is just me.


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## GMA100 (Apr 8, 2016)

greentree said:


> Offer to get a really good portrait of one of the vet's animals, have it printed portrait size (maybe 24x36), framed, for their waiting room.


This is a good idea! I always see a nice picture or two, of dogs in our vets office! 

There are so many ways to get your name out there! Be creative!


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

updownrider said:


> You are going to charge your clients more so you can donate their money to charity? In that case, you are not really the donor, your clients are. Won't it get complicated with taxes, too? As a client, I would rather pay for the photography work, and then choose my own charity to support. But :shrug: maybe that is just me.


Well I just want my clients to know that not all money goes in my pocket but a percentage goes towards horse rescue. It's just like companies say some proceeds with go to charity or children's foundation.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

greentree said:


> Offer to get a really good portrait of one of the vet's animals, have it printed portrait size (maybe 24x36), framed, for their waiting room.


Great idea, thanks. The only thing is now getting a hold of a vet and getting permission.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

GMA100 said:


> That's what I was thinking!
> 
> 
> You will have to have tons of patience, because a lot or most of these animals will be afraid of knew people and environments, your camera could even be scary to them. You will have to learn how to talk gently and get them to feel comfortable, don't get a ton of pictures, just 3 or 4 nice and decent ones! Here is an article about photographing shelter animals: So you want to be a photographer in an animal shelter? ? Woof Like To Meet
> ...


Those articles are very informative thank you. I think I can just call up shelters nearby and ask if I can come in and take photos of their animals. :loveshower:


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> As has been said, literally anyone can take a mediocre picture of a horse and try to pass it off as professional. If I'm going to pay good money for a picture of my horse (or any horse), it has to be exceptional. Objectively speaking, NONE of the pics I've seen you post have been anywhere near exceptional. This is nothing personal. It's just that they are shots I could have gone out and taken myself. If I'm going to drop my hard-earned money on a picture, I want it to be something I could never in a million years have gotten myself.
> 
> Take a look at this photographer. My DH and I discovered him on our honeymoon a couple of years ago. I would readily buy ANY of his work (if I could afford it). Now, compare his work to yours...
> Ken Walters - The Gallery in Williams
> ...


I think I just need time and practice. Don't forget, I have yet to take any photos of horse + owner.

That guy in that link has obviously been doing his work for a lot longer than me, it's not fair to compare himself to me.


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

Hoofpic said:


> Well I just want my clients to know that not all money goes in my pocket but a percentage goes towards horse rescue. It's just like companies say some proceeds with go to charity or children's foundation.



Just wondering how your paying clients will be 100% sure a part of the cost of the picture is going to horse rescues. How will you offer them proof if asked?


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## GMA100 (Apr 8, 2016)

Hoofpic said:


> Those articles are very informative thank you. I think I can just call up shelters nearby and ask if I can come in and take photos of their animals. :loveshower:


Yay!! Just remember that a lot of shelter animals will be afraid of your equipment and maybe even you, so keep calm and learn how to make the animals feel comfortable! As that one link said, don't take a bunch of equipment. A nice camera will work fine! And let the volunteers have their say in where to take the animals and what you will do with them, because they know the animals much better than you, and you don't want to make an animal fearful by something you accidentally do. 


Keep us updated and post the pictures you get of the animals!


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Whinnie said:


> Just wondering how your paying clients will be 100% sure a part of the cost of the picture is going to horse rescues. How will you offer them proof if asked?


I don't have to prove anything, I will have say 5% or whatever amount going to horse rescue. To me, a person or company who gives portions of their proceeds to charities says a lot about the person. And I'm not doing it for this purpose but because I want to do it.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

Hoofpic said:


> Well I just want my clients to know that not all money goes in my pocket but a percentage goes towards horse rescue. It's just like companies say some proceeds with go to charity or children's foundation.


Well, don't price yourself out of the market because you want to donate to rescues. Focus on your photography first.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

Hoofpic said:


> I think I just need time and practice. Don't forget, I have yet to take any photos of horse + owner.


You started this thread more than 6 weeks ago and haven't taken any photos, even at the barn?


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

updownrider said:


> You started this thread more than 6 weeks ago and haven't taken any photos, even at the barn?


I've taken lots of photos, I just finished updating my print portfolio tonight after getting a 45 4x6 prints done.

The only thing is, the past week I haven't taken any photos, even though I want to. I'm getting sick of taking pictures at the lakes lol.

Like I said, this is my biggest flaw. I have such few subjects that I am interested in photographing outside of horses and portraits.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Well folks, (not getting too excited here), but I may have my first shot here, kick at the can at shooting a show. It's not a super big one, but it's a show and there will be lots of horses there, kids, parents. It's a Gymkana show this Sunday with stakes and poles, barrels, not too far from my barn and they will let me know on Thursday if it will be okay for me to shoot. They're mainly just checking to see if it would be okay with the riders parents etc.

I was going to attend it anyways to audit. I offered a print for each rider in exchange for their time and me using my photos in my portfolio.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

GMA100 said:


> Yay!! Just remember that a lot of shelter animals will be afraid of your equipment and maybe even you, so keep calm and learn how to make the animals feel comfortable! As that one link said, don't take a bunch of equipment. A nice camera will work fine! And let the volunteers have their say in where to take the animals and what you will do with them, because they know the animals much better than you, and you don't want to make an animal fearful by something you accidentally do.
> 
> 
> Keep us updated and post the pictures you get of the animals!


I would just bring my camera and no flash, lights, etc. :grin:

I've never shot dogs or cats before but I sometimes shoot my BO's dogs.

I got this last summer of one of his goats. Let me see if I can find it.


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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

Few thoughts;

1) Most animals pay little attention to flash and lighting gear. It's more motion that sets animals to flight/fight than it is the light itself - or in the case of fireworks the boom. The flash of light for a split second might cause a reaction in some, but its generally very few. 

2) If you try doing shelter photography you've got to keep a few things in mind
a) If you're indoors you need flash; indoors is dark, dingy and generally has unflattering light

b) The core part of what you want to aim for is happy not sad. Sad pictures of animals make people go "awww" but they don't want to own that animal. Instead they want to see a happy, bright animal in a comfortable setting. Even if the animal has disfigurements the sight of a happy, contented and pleasing photo makes them WANT to be a part of it. They want that happy animal in their life; not the sad sorrowful one behind bars. 

c) Most of the shelter photography I've seen is done in studio type settings. Using a room at the shelter with a few props (eg animal bed/chair/carpet/toys etc...) so that you give an impression of the animal in a home environment (the environment people WANT to be a part of). As such you'd be setting up lights and gear and bringing the animal to that environment; settling them and giving them time to get used to it before posing and getting your shots. Might take time with some, but in general works. 

d) There's no pay; most shelters don't run on much profit so chances are you're doing this because you want to see them rehomed. Exposure is nice, but in general people pay no attention to who takes photos today. Expect minimal exposure, though work with the shelter; a few business cards on the desk; a discounted portrait session for every rehoming etc... Keeping in mind that some shelters are charities and thus have restrictions on commercial activities that they can support. 

From what I can tell I think you're not quite ready for this. It's a good idea but you want more lighting gear and experience before you start working toward this end. A cat or dog at home or even a stuffed toy (stuffed toys don't get bored 5 minutes in and walk off) is where I'd start to hone your skills.

But as equine is your focus I'd focus on learning that - must be some horses at the barn you can shoot (or your own? )


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## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

Good luck if you do end up shooting that show. Make sure you look up images to get a grasp on what the exhibitors will be looking for as far as what shots they are buying, etc.

I'm going to share a few links from our local photographers so you can get an idea on pricing for local type shows. In order of favorite to least, but pictures I do still like and purchase. The majority of my favorite images comes from the person in the first link, and her prices reflect that. Just trying to give you an idea since you won't make money if you go in thinking you'll be able to make tons of money doing this. Each of these girls have other jobs and this is their side hobby/job.

Photography by KRae

jennifernadine

https://bluegrassgirlphotography.smugmug.com/

Are they amazing, blow me away pictures? Probably not, especially to some who have had some serious photographers in their show ring. But they consistently put out good images that make me happy and show case what I as the exhibitor want to see.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

A very successful horse show photographer is James Parker. He has changed his business from shooting everyone in the show ring to mostly private clients and creating a Book for them. His books are about $15,000 and I'd guess he has a waiting list. Under the 2017 Photo Options in the link, you can see his pricing. There is a Sample Book link, a Horse Show link with some candids, and others. 

Home - The Book LLC


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Hoofpic said:


> Well folks, (not getting too excited here), but I may have my first shot here, kick at the can at shooting a show. It's not a super big one, but it's a show and there will be lots of horses there, kids, parents. It's a *Gymkana* show this Sunday with stakes and poles, barrels, not too far from my barn and they will let me know on Thursday if it will be okay for me to shoot. They're mainly just checking to see if it would be okay with the riders parents etc.
> 
> I was going to attend it anyways to audit. I offered a print for each rider in exchange for their time and me using my photos in my portfolio.


I suppose the show management needs to do what they think is right, but I've never seen photographers get permission. Heck, most parents and contestants (at least in my area) are thrilled when they see someone with a fancy camera taking photos! 

I'm not a professional photographer and I don't want to be -- I just do it for fun. I usually take some pictures at the shows I go to. Took some photos at a jackpot barrel race Sunday and shared them on Facebook. I don't know if you've shot speed events before, but maybe to give you an idea of what the barrel racers like to see:

(I must have done okay because I had one gal ask to purchase photos so she could use them for advertising for the stallion of her horse. I told her I'm not a professional so I'm not going to take money but just give me credit for the photo and I want to see the finished product!)

And this was from one of our local horse clubs. I didn't take very many that day because I was busy with my own two horses and events, but got a few of the kids.


Oh, and it's *gymkhana* ... not gymkana. ;-) Just don't put a typo in your portfolio.


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## Dehda01 (Jul 25, 2013)

I like to practice on Breyer horses or stuffed animals. It lets me play with light and what angles work well before the real thing in real speed 

I personally don't like flash inside on animals. I find it makes cats squint and I don't like the color shift. But it definitely takes a lot more thinking about what I need to do to my camera in order to make it happen. Tweak aperture, ISO, speed shutter and utilize natural or naked bulb light as much as possible. I tend to be taking off the cuff animal pix, so normally don't usually have a tripod to help me.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

^^ Regarding my post above, I guess I didn't realize Facebook photo albums are not allowed (that I had tried to link). So here's a few of my favorites I had taken from the barrel race.... if you don't have any experience with barrel races. ;-)


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## Greenmeadows (May 8, 2016)

GMA100 said:


> This might sound weird, but how about you build your name by going to animal shelters? Dogs and horses mostly. I've seen people on Facebook do that and they obviously let the shelter take the pictures and use them. This way, you can get some quality pictures of animals to help adopt them out and (with the permission of the shelter) post them as your work.
> 
> Just a suggestion!


I think that is an excellent idea. A common marketing scheme in businesses; supporting a charity cause to not only increase visibility, but also establish a reputation of being kindhearted. Also, supporting a charity may increase the loyalty factor, as some clients would be more inclined to do business with one who is dedicated to a good cause. And of course, the factor of more practice is beneficial.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Overread said:


> Few thoughts;
> 
> 1) Most animals pay little attention to flash and lighting gear. It's more motion that sets animals to flight/fight than it is the light itself - or in the case of fireworks the boom. The flash of light for a split second might cause a reaction in some, but its generally very few.
> 
> ...


I'm not ready for shelters you mean? 

Yes there are a ton of horses at our barn, 32 to be exact and that includes one mini and two donkeys lol.

I was out today and happened to discover an animal shelter literally 5mins from my house! 

I have the lighting gear don't worry - speed lights, hotshoe lights, even large LED softbox lights. I even have seperate stands to mount them on if needed.

I will be honest with you guys, I don't mind shooting dogs and cats etc, but I would much rather shoot horses at an equine rescue than just an animal rescue.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Going back to the picture in the vets,

Some years ago I wanted my three dogs portrait painted. In one of the vets there was a painting of a Golden Retriever and a JR which always took my eye. I found the artist and had her do the portrait for me just purely on how well she had captured the two dogs. She told me that she had had several commissions from that picture.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

beau159 said:


> I suppose the show management needs to do what they think is right, but I've never seen photographers get permission. Heck, most parents and contestants (at least in my area) are thrilled when they see someone with a fancy camera taking photos!
> 
> I'm not a professional photographer and I don't want to be -- I just do it for fun. I usually take some pictures at the shows I go to. Took some photos at a jackpot barrel race Sunday and shared them on Facebook. I don't know if you've shot speed events before, but maybe to give you an idea of what the barrel racers like to see:
> 
> ...


Well I'm just hoping for the best. I think I need to get my insurance first, then my pricing down, etc.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

So lets talk prits foor my portfolio. 

I am using 4x6 in a 4x6 album that holds 200. 

I just recently scaled down and only put the really good stuff in.

Any thoughts on switching to a bigger album like 8x10 or 5x7?

Im also considering just going digital and using a tablet to show my portfolio.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

I still believe it is best if you go to a photography forum and ask professionals. They will have valuable insight on such matters.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

sarahfromsc said:


> I still believe it is best if you go to a photography forum and ask professionals. They will have valuable insight on such matters.


I have and have concluded that it is all personal preference.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

I don't think a 4x6 is a good representation....


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

Hoofpic said:


> I have and have concluded that it is all personal preference.


What is your personal preference? Whatever it is, go with it.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Oppurtunity missed this afternoon. Was driving back from the barn when I was driving past the herd of 32 horses down the road, coming up to the lake and I see a 7 of the horses there including what I thought was a foal drinking from the lake, rolling and playing. It looked like they were at the beach. 

I immediately saw the amazing light and made a u-turn and pulled up on the side to take pics. Once I got out, they were running and playing but once I had my camera ready to shoot, they all started heading back into the field. Darn. 

I only got one shot of the foal. Not when I look at it, it looks more like a yearling, not a baby.

But seeing the lighting, you can tell this would have been an amazing opportunity to get some stunning photos with the lighting and all.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

greentree said:


> I don't think a 4x6 is a good representation....


True but it's the most common. 8x10 is not a standard photo size so it would be a hassle to have a seperate version of each photo just for the print. Once you go from 4x6 to 5x7 it's 4 times the cost to print lol.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

sarahfromsc said:


> What is your personal preference? Whatever it is, go with it.


My personal preference is to scrap the print portfolio and go all digital by showing my photos on a Samsung tablet with a super AMOLED screen. Those screens are amazing and they will actually make photos look better than any printer could. 

The cost of prints in the long run add up. The cost of the tablet is a one time cost.


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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

Thoughts: If you're showing digital you want it calibrated without too much backlight so that what you show a client is what they are going to get in a print. If you've got a really glossy shiny bright digital image and then they buy prints they will feel disappointed when the print isn't lit the same. By all means use digital displays to show proofs before purchases, that's perfectly sane and no point going through endless printing and ink/ordering to show clients things they might not buy.

For a show-case I would have a printed portfolio of your best for advertising purposes. Showing the real product; heck if you've got an office/studio etc.. then a few really good big prints on the wall is good to have as well. 



Hoofpic said:


> But seeing the lighting, you can tell this would have been an amazing opportunity to get some stunning photos with the lighting and all.


Actually the lighting to me looks very difficult to work with. You've got a strip right at the front where the sand is totally overexposed and blown out; similarly the grass behind the horses has gone too in some areas. Exposing for those bright parts and the dark horse would likely have been very underexposed. It seems like a classic harsh, near midday sunlight. Or at least well away from morning and dusk.

I'm also concerned at the softness, I know at 100% view things will look softer, but there's just no crispness to any part of the photo. Even downloading the photo and resizing it in stages I couldn't find any sharpness to it (nor could the photoshop sharpening software find much to sharpen at all) until it was down to 1000pixels on the longest side).

I can't tell what you used for the shot (no EXIF data attached) so it could just be that your camera in this case was your phone or similar and not your main dslr and lens. The shot looks to be in-focus and the mane and legs are not showing motion blur so its not, in my view, a shutterspeed issue (ergo handshake). Shot through the car window might be a factor if you did so instead of winding the window down.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Most people are buying digital prints these days.


I personally would rather by a 5x7 or an 8x10, maybe even 11x14 depending on the picture.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Overread said:


> Thoughts: If you're showing digital you want it calibrated without too much backlight so that what you show a client is what they are going to get in a print. If you've got a really glossy shiny bright digital image and then they buy prints they will feel disappointed when the print isn't lit the same. By all means use digital displays to show proofs before purchases, that's perfectly sane and no point going through endless printing and ink/ordering to show clients things they might not buy.
> 
> For a show-case I would have a printed portfolio of your best for advertising purposes. Showing the real product; heck if you've got an office/studio etc.. then a few really good big prints on the wall is good to have as well.


The only thing is, what if you are showing your photos in bright sunny environments? Need to turn the back light on the device up a lot more, most likely to full brightness. The great thing about these Samsung tablets with super AMOLED screens is that the blacks are black because the LED diodes that won't be used actually get shut off. So the blacks, colour depth and overall saturation are out of this world. I have a super AMOLED on my Samsung phone and I'm still blown away just how good it makes photos look. It really does enhance them for public viewing. 

From my experience in prints, I notice that quite a few shots will come out bit darker or brighter than how the actual photo/file is finished. Also, it can get expensive. Add up the cost of 100 4x6 prints and then add another 100 and the long term cost can quickly add up.

One of the best places near me to print is London Drugs, but their prices are way over the top. 39 cents for a single 4x6 and $1.40cdn for a single 5x7. I won't even get in to their large poster prints like 8x10 or 11x14, they are like $15-20 each. Say I get a 11x14 album that holds 20 photos (can always buy more inserts to hold more), album is about $20-30. Then add up the cost of the prints and I would be spending $250-300cdn just on 20 prints. I look at that picture and ask myself, is it worth it? I could put that towards a Samsung tablet and the tablet I can load up as many images as I would like (since I would put a huge micro SD card in it), and plus it's a lot more portable than a huge photo album.



> Actually the lighting to me looks very difficult to work with. You've got a strip right at the front where the sand is totally overexposed and blown out; similarly the grass behind the horses has gone too in some areas. Exposing for those bright parts and the dark horse would likely have been very underexposed. It seems like a classic harsh, near midday sunlight. Or at least well away from morning and dusk.
> 
> I'm also concerned at the softness, I know at 100% view things will look softer, but there's just no crispness to any part of the photo. Even downloading the photo and resizing it in stages I couldn't find any sharpness to it (nor could the photoshop sharpening software find much to sharpen at all) until it was down to 1000pixels on the longest side).
> 
> I can't tell what you used for the shot (no EXIF data attached) so it could just be that your camera in this case was your phone or similar and not your main dslr and lens. The shot looks to be in-focus and the mane and legs are not showing motion blur so its not, in my view, a shutterspeed issue (ergo handshake). Shot through the car window might be a factor if you did so instead of winding the window down.


Lighting would be difficult yes but would still be fun just for experience and what not. 

When I took this photo I didn't have anything set on the camera. I was just pulling it out when the horses all started heading back to the field and I really wanted to get a snapshot of the foal so I just quickly propped it and fired. Not even a second spent on settings because I knew I would have lost em if I took 3 extra seconds to set my camera up. I used my 70-300 for this photo but it was still in AF-C and I didn't select a AF point so that would explain why it's not sharp. But either way, at least I got "a" image to at least show you guys what I "wanted" to shoot and what the setting was like. 

Gee those horses sure move quick. One second they're playing and the next they're off in the field.


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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

When I say showcase I mean examples not each persons photos. Of course you'd want to have digital to show them pre-prints to make choices from otherwise you'd use proofs which might have 6 or 8 photos per A4 page just to show composition and content from which you'd then print. Today digital lets you show more and more easily so I'd use digital; but I'd still have printed examples. That way you sell them digital online files and prints instead of print-ready-files. More earning potential for you and it means you control the printing process itself rather than let them do what they want (where they might use silly auto-filters or even use poor printing services because they are cheap or because they don't know any better - or heck because they printed them at home). 



As for the camera and AF it if didn't lock on a point that might explain the softness; though even if you've not picked an AF point it should have latched onto something in that scene without much trouble.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Hoofpic said:


> My personal preference is to scrap the print portfolio and go all digital by showing my photos on a Samsung tablet with a super AMOLED screen. Those screens are amazing and they will actually make photos look better than any printer could.
> 
> The cost of prints in the long run add up. The cost of the tablet is a one time cost.


Is that a large format? I have always looked at horse show photos on a large monitor. I would not be able to SEE any detail on a smaller tablet, and if a photographer tried that, I would not buy anything. Same with a portfolio. You need at least 8 X 10's......At very least, it shows that you CARED enough to show the photo to it's BEST advantage, no matter HOW much it costs.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

OT: I was browsing ads and came across a local seller with a 2 month old Sigma 18-35 f1.8 for $650cdn. I managed to bargain him down to $550.

He bought it brand new and it has a 7 year warranty from sigma.

THIS IS SO TEMPTING!!! 

If you are not familiar with this lens,
this is one of the best lenses for crop cameras and for portraits. I know its short at 35mm but this would allow me to sell off my Nikon 18-140 and get a huge upgrade on it. I would also sell my 35mm prime.

I could get $300-350cdn for my 18-140 and $150 for my 35mm prime.

It would go nicely with my other lenses

18-35 is like a collection of primes between 18 and 35mm. 28mm f1.8g Nikon prime alone is like $900cdn. This Sigma is $550cdn.

18-35mm f1.8
50mm f1.8
85mm f1.8 

For portraits would have me covered. I could always crop between 36-49mm and 51-84mm.

70-300 for long range.

Very tempted. This lenses is $900cdn brand new.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

I should also mention that because that Sigma 18-35 f1.8 is a such a great steal that I could always resell it if it doesnt work for my needs and pretty much recoupe all my costs. I figured its a win win situation. 

Ive never used this lens but I know people who have and its an amazing lens. It will sell fast so I better act quick. Seller says they can meet me tomorrow night so I have 24hrs to sit on it.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

I've decided, I will go get that 18-35mm f1.8 Sigma tomorrow. 

I will then sell off my 18-140, 35mm and 50mm primes.

I would drop down to a 3 lens setup and this would be more than good enough to cover my needs. Remember less lens means less swapping, also less to carry around and less weight.

18-35 f1.8 Sigma (this will double up as a 35mm prime and a wide angle zoom lens for portraiture or indoor photography).
85mm f1.8g Nikon
70-300 AF-P Nikon

I was going to keep the 50mm prime, but I don't really need it after getting the 18-35 Sigma. The Sigma could easily be used as a prime at the 35mm focal length. The only reason why I even need a second prime of less than 85mm is for indoors. The 85mm is not usable indoors, anywhere.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Overread said:


> When I say showcase I mean examples not each persons photos. Of course you'd want to have digital to show them pre-prints to make choices from otherwise you'd use proofs which might have 6 or 8 photos per A4 page just to show composition and content from which you'd then print. Today digital lets you show more and more easily so I'd use digital; but I'd still have printed examples. That way you sell them digital online files and prints instead of print-ready-files. More earning potential for you and it means you control the printing process itself rather than let them do what they want (where they might use silly auto-filters or even use poor printing services because they are cheap or because they don't know any better - or heck because they printed them at home).


Oh I get it now. Well the good news is that I technically don't "need" a tablet since I do have a Surface Pro 3, but photos look better on the Samsung's with super AMOLED screens than mine (though my screen is nothing to complain about really).

I think I will do this, go digital when showing people and still have a print one but only print out my best shots and keep the print portfolio smaller in number. No one wants to flip through 150 photos. Plus it will save me money.



> As for the camera and AF it if didn't lock on a point that might explain the softness; though even if you've not picked an AF point it should have latched onto something in that scene without much trouble.


I don't think I picked an AF point cause I was so rushed to get ready. Oh well, getting ready for next time.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

greentree said:


> Is that a large format? I have always looked at horse show photos on a large monitor. I would not be able to SEE any detail on a smaller tablet, and if a photographer tried that, I would not buy anything. Same with a portfolio. You need at least 8 X 10's......At very least, it shows that you CARED enough to show the photo to it's BEST advantage, no matter HOW much it costs.


Well the Samsung tablets come in 8" and 9.7" My Surface Pro 3 is 12.3" which gives a different experience than the Samsungs due to it just being larger.

I am looking into getting a larger print album, 8x10 is an odd size though. Might go with 11x14.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

> 8x10 is an odd size though


Since the 70s, every horse show picture I have purchased is 8x10.


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## 6gun Kid (Feb 26, 2013)

Hoofpic said:


> , 8x10 is an odd size though.


 No it really isn't, in fact it is pretty standard for show/rodeo prints. Going back to the middle 80's to last week, I have probably bought a thousand rodeo and show pictures, and every single one....8x10!


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## Dehda01 (Jul 25, 2013)

Yup, nearly all my favorite prints that I have done myself to put on my walls and purchased from photographers at shows are 8x10s. I have gotten a "few" bigger ones- but they would have to be the truly fantastic perfect shots. But if I like them enough to buy them, I buy 8x10.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

updownrider said:


> Since the 70s, every horse show picture I have purchased is 8x10.


Okay, didn't know this, but it's good to know, thanks.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

6gun Kid said:


> No it really isn't, in fact it is pretty standard for show/rodeo prints. Going back to the middle 80's to last week, I have probably bought a thousand rodeo and show pictures, and every single one....8x10!


No what I meant is that it's different from what comes out of the camera. So I have to manually crop my images to 8x10. What comes out of cameras is 4:3 aspect ratio, which would be equivalent to 6x8 or 3x4. 

Not a big deal either way but what I'm saying is, I will get a different image when doing 8x10 than what I see in the original image. Not a big deal, just more work.


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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

I would have a series of framed photos in different sizes that you offer. Whilst you might have to crop to get to 8*10 you could easily do 8*12 (I think that's what comes out of a lot of crop sensor cameras?). Most people won't complain and if they want a crop you can always do that and adjust accordingly .


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

I have a buyer for my 35mm and 50mm primes tonight and I am picking up that 18-35 f1.8 Sigma in a couple hours. I'm really excited to get my hands on this baby and see what I can do with it. It will also allow me to do all sorts of close in, close up photography that is not possible with my other lenses.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Overread said:


> I would have a series of framed photos in different sizes that you offer. Whilst you might have to crop to get to 8*10 you could easily do 8*12 (I think that's what comes out of a lot of crop sensor cameras?). Most people won't complain and if they want a crop you can always do that and adjust accordingly .


Thats true.

8x12 is a nice size as well, hard to find the albums


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Well I am loving this new lens. Its big, very heavy and by far my heaviest lens. But I cant wait to see the images from it as I did a few test samples today.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

I have some good news!

So I got the green light to shoot the show this Sunday (just 15mins from my barn so not bad for travel) and the show starts at 9:30 and finishes at 2:30pm. I have to bring a release form for everyone including all the riders to sign and I also will bring a form for every rider to put their emails down on so I know where to send their photo.

BUT

There is a heat warning going on right now and it's suppose to be 29C on Sunday. They said that there is a chance the show could get cancelled. They will find out tomorrow and will let me know. Fingers crossed that it's not.

29C is uncomfortably hot!!!!


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## GMA100 (Apr 8, 2016)

Hoofpic said:


> I have some good news!
> 
> So I got the green light to shoot the show this Sunday (just 15mins from my barn so not bad for travel) and the show starts at 9:30 and finishes at 2:30pm. I have to bring a release form for everyone including all the riders to sign and I also will bring a form for every rider to put their emails down on so I know where to send their photo.
> 
> ...


Isn't 29C about 84F? If so, you have NO idea about hot!! Where I live 84 is a nice and comfortable summer heat. The average summer temp is about 98 to 105F (36 to 40C). AND I work afternoons every single day of the week!!! Yeah, 29C isn't that bad lol  


Congrats on the show!! I hope it all goes well!


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Just some quick snaps I took today, right off the camera, unedited. No cropping, no nothing.

Very impressive pro lens, I love all that light! I see a use for this lens, yes it's big and heavy but it's a beauty.























































This is one of the BO's dogs. IMO, with some editing, this is a picture I would print for him and frame.


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

Hoofpic said:


> This is one of the BO's dogs.


What is going on with that dog's eye?!


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

phantomhorse13 said:


> What is going on with that dog's eye?!


Looks ulcerated. Last dog we had come into the clinic with their eye looking like that had a severe infection and lost the eye completely.

I would NOT print and frame that pic. The eye goop/crusties, plus that ulcerated eye do NOT make a show-worthy pic. If someone gave me a pic of one of my dogs that looked like that, I would politely say thank you, then hide it away in a photo album or drawer somewhere. Of course, I'm kind of OCD about eye boogers to begin with. My animals' eyes are cleaned out daily and I even wipe the eye boogers on the personal dogs my coworkers bring to the clinic to hang out while they're at work. Even my cats get their eye boogers cleaned off daily, including my semi-feral who just tolerates being touched.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

phantomhorse13 said:


> What is going on with that dog's eye?!


He is blind in the right eye.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Looks ulcerated. Last dog we had come into the clinic with their eye looking like that had a severe infection and lost the eye completely.
> 
> I would NOT print and frame that pic. The eye goop/crusties, plus that ulcerated eye do NOT make a show-worthy pic. If someone gave me a pic of one of my dogs that looked like that, I would politely say thank you, then hide it away in a photo album or drawer somewhere. Of course, I'm kind of OCD about eye boogers to begin with. My animals' eyes are cleaned out daily and I even wipe the eye boogers on the personal dogs my coworkers bring to the clinic to hang out while they're at work. Even my cats get their eye boogers cleaned off daily, including my semi-feral who just tolerates being touched.


The only bad thing is that it's not possible to take portrait photos of this boy and not get that eye unless you shoot from the left side of his head. 

I took this one last year sometime while he was sleeping. I woudn't generally think that dog owners find photos of their dogs sleeping to be all that appealing.










BO's favourite goat.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I'm not sure if you are looking at critiques or not. I'm not a photographer and I don't have a real artistic eye but my dad is a photographer who has been published and won many awards so if I were to compare your pictures to something he would take, of those.. the closest one you have to a money shot (in my un-trained opinion) is the black and white of the goat. The first horse has really good lighting but I can tell it's just a practice shot. The lead ropes are not bad but your focus immediately go's to the blue and white one and I feel l like the placing is off. The wind thingy seems like your camera focused on the hanger.

Again, I'm not a professional but I've seen enough winning shots to have a pretty good idea of what you should be looking for. Just trying to be helpful here.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

GMA100 said:


> Isn't 29C about 84F? If so, you have NO idea about hot!! Where I live 84 is a nice and comfortable summer heat. The average summer temp is about 98 to 105F (36 to 40C). AND I work afternoons every single day of the week!!! Yeah, 29C isn't that bad lol
> 
> 
> Congrats on the show!! I hope it all goes well!


Thanks. I'm crossing my fingers that it does NOT get cancelled, but if it does, then there is not much I can do.

Our barn (mind you it's a 40 year old building) gets EXTREMELY hot in summers, like it's unbearable to ride. You sweat just from standing in the barn doing nothing. 

It's commonly 28-30C in the barn in summers but because it's so humid it feels like 100C. Which is too bad because if someone wants to work on their riding, they have to put up with it. Sure we can ride in the outdoor arena but it's grass and it's just not quite the same as the indoor with sand gives you.

Now I don't know how true this is, but one of my friends told me that the regulations here in Alberta, you are not suppose to ride or excersize a horse in 28C or above temperatures. She said that they would need water every 15mins.

Now for tomorrow, if it does not get cancelled. I need to be prepared and do some research (try to find pics) of this arena so I can get a feel for what the setting is like and I can pre plan how I will make the most out of that space. This will be so fun though! There will be lots of fast movement, fast moving horses, so I need to get some good action shots while at it. It will be a mix between action and portraiture.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

If 84 degrees got horse shows cancelled around here we'd never ride. It's generally around 94-100 with a heat index of 105 in the summers... winters are the complete opposite... In this state we don't really have a spring or fall... Sometimes we get a day of fall.... and maybe a day of spring....


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

farmpony84 said:


> I'm not sure if you are looking at critiques or not. I'm not a photographer and I don't have a real artistic eye but my dad is a photographer who has been published and won many awards so if I were to compare your pictures to something he would take, of those.. the closest one you have to a money shot (in my un-trained opinion) is the black and white of the goat. The first horse has really good lighting but I can tell it's just a practice shot. The lead ropes are not bad but your focus immediately go's to the blue and white one and I feel l like the placing is off. The wind thingy seems like your camera focused on the hanger.
> 
> Again, I'm not a professional but I've seen enough winning shots to have a pretty good idea of what you should be looking for. Just trying to be helpful here.


Those shots I took yesterday were just quick shots with no real effort in composition etc. I wanted to see how it handled lighting and I just wanted to test the bokeh on the lens and see if it was as amazing as reviews have said. This is a lens that I have been dying to get my hands on for a few years now and didn't cause of the price, so I was eager to test it out. And I know that I am really lucky to own this lens because if it wasn't for the deal I got on it, I still wouldn't have one.

I have never shot with a such a fast wide angle lens before (all the wide angle lens I've used in my lifetime were all f3.5-f5.6, which is very slow and unsable in low light settings like our barn), so it's really new to me, will take some time in me learning it and how I can incorporate this into my photography and what techniques I can use and learn specifically with this lens.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

farmpony84 said:


> If 84 degrees got horse shows cancelled around here we'd never ride. It's generally around 94-100 with a heat index of 105 in the summers... winters are the complete opposite... In this state we don't really have a spring or fall... Sometimes we get a day of fall.... and maybe a day of spring....


But you have to remember that the humidity here in Alberta is brutal in the summer months. High humidity makes temperatures feel that much worse.

We have so much dryness here, no beaches or big bodies of water and construction everywhere in the city only makes things worse. :-( The sun hitting all that pavement in the summer is unbearable.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I think some useful insight, would to take one of the equine photography classes at Olds College, given by Cheryl Smythe

https://www.oldscollege.ca/continui.../equine-courses-/horse-photography/index.html

If I get my scanner talking to my computer, I can post a picture or two, taken by Cheryl of my horses at a show


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Hoofpic said:


> But you have to remember that the humidity here in Alberta is brutal in the summer months. High humidity makes temperatures feel that much worse.
> 
> We have so much dryness here, no beaches or big bodies of water and construction everywhere in the city only makes things worse. :-( The sun hitting all that pavement in the summer is unbearable.



There is no real humidity in Alberta, and that comes from someone who grew up in Ontario, around the Great Lakes, before moving to Alberta.
I took my husband home one summer, when we first met, and it about killed him!
We get some hot days in Alberta, like now, that can spawn severe weather, but humidity is nothing, compared to where true humidity exists!


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Smilie said:


> I think some useful insight, would to take one of the equine photography classes at Olds College, given by Cheryl Smythe
> 
> https://www.oldscollege.ca/continui.../equine-courses-/horse-photography/index.html
> 
> If I get my scanner talking to my computer, I can post a picture or two, taken by Cheryl of my horses at a show


I have considered this and still am, the only thing is costs. I know a friend of mine tried to convince me to take a 2 day weekend equine photography workshop that runs 2 or 3 times a year up in the country at that trail riding place that I go to. But for $450CDN, no thanks. That is a full months board right there. :|


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Smilie said:


> There is no real humidity in Alberta, and that comes from someone who grew up in Ontario, around the Great Lakes, before moving to Alberta.
> I took my husband home one summer, when we first met, and it about killed him!
> We get some hot days in Alberta, like now, that can spawn severe weather, but humidity is nothing, compared to where true humidity exists!


But our barn is REALLY dry and humid, it gets really bad in the summer. Our barn is old and doesn't have good ventilation at all. 

Was a night and day difference when i went to that BBQ at that other ranch a few weeks ago and their arena was so cool on a hot summer day that I thought they had A/C running in it. 

The age of a barn and how it was built makes a huge difference IMO.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

Hoofpic said:


> But our barn is REALLY dry and humid, it gets really bad in the summer. Our barn is old and doesn't have good ventilation at all.
> 
> Was a night and day difference when i went to that BBQ at that other ranch a few weeks ago and their arena was so cool on a hot summer day that I thought they had A/C running in it.
> 
> The age of a barn and how it was built makes a huge difference IMO.


Dry and humid? We had 96 percent humidity yesterday. It was not dry. Nor was I for that matter.


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

Hoofpic said:


> Now I don't know how true this is, but one of my friends told me that the regulations here in Alberta, you are not suppose to ride or excersize a horse in 28C or above temperatures. She said that they would need water every 15mins.


Seems to me your friend made up an excuse not to ride. 28C is 82.4F, which is a lovely temperature compared to a lot of the US all summer. While certainly how miserable the weather feels is related to what is 'normal' for your area, to claim a horse would need water every 15 minutes at that temp is crazy - and I would pay money to see someone who actually got their horse _to_ drink every 15 minutes! I did my last 50 mile endurance ride with a heat index of 92F (33C), completed with all As, and the horse did not drink every 15 minutes.



Hoofpic said:


> But our barn is REALLY dry and humid


Seeing as humidity is the measure of moisture in the air, I don't understand how your barn can be simultaneously really dry and humid.


I hope you get to the show. If you do, make sure to bring water and snacks to take care of you, if you feel the weather is extreme. Can't take pictures if you are ill.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

We'd be screwed in Arizona if we couldn't ride in temps over 82F. That's spring and fall weather. Heck, back in February 2004 on the day my son was born, it was 92F in Tucson where we lived. Even in the mountais where we live now, at the height of monsoon season, it's 85-90F during the day with 60%+ humidity. Before monsoon season hit, we were in the high 90s to low 100s every day. :shrug:


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

> Now I don't know how true this is, but one of my friends told me that the regulations here in Alberta, you are not suppose to ride or excersize a horse in 28C or above temperatures. She said that they would need water every 15mins.


I can't speak for the law but I think you can read about what your friend told you. If you are able to search online for the best lens and camera, you can verify through many horsemanship websites if a horse needs water every 15 minutes while exercising in 82F heat.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

phantomhorse13 said:


> Seems to me your friend made up an excuse not to ride. 28C is 82.4F, which is a lovely temperature compared to a lot of the US all summer. While certainly how miserable the weather feels is related to what is 'normal' for your area, to claim a horse would need water every 15 minutes at that temp is crazy - and I would pay money to see someone who actually got their horse _to_ drink every 15 minutes! I did my last 50 mile endurance ride with a heat index of 92F (33C), completed with all As, and the horse did not drink every 15 minutes.


Well I didn't say that I necessarily believed what my friend said, I thought it sounded off as well. The heat can be hard on horses but I still think you can ride them in the heat. But she said that it's Alberta regulations to not ride horses above 28C and that they need water every 15mins. I'm not sure where she read this. 

However, I do know that there is a heat warning going on right now for my area.



> Seeing as humidity is the measure of moisture in the air, I don't understand how your barn can be simultaneously really dry and humid.


Has to do with the barn itself from what I was told. It just has poor ventilation.



> I hope you get to the show. If you do, make sure to bring water and snacks to take care of you, if you feel the weather is extreme. Can't take pictures if you are ill.


Thanks. Yes I hope the show doesn't get cancelled. I will bring lots of water and snacks. Will have to eat before I go.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> We'd be screwed in Arizona if we couldn't ride in temps over 82F. That's spring and fall weather. Heck, back in February 2004 on the day my son was born, it was 92F in Tucson where we lived. Even in the mountais where we live now, at the height of monsoon season, it's 85-90F during the day with 60%+ humidity. Before monsoon season hit, we were in the high 90s to low 100s every day. :shrug:


I've never been to Arizona so I can't comment but isn't the air down there different?


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

Hoofpic said:


> phantomhorse13 said:
> 
> 
> > Seems to me your friend made up an excuse not to ride. 28C is 82.4F, which is a lovely temperature compared to a lot of the US all summer. While certainly how miserable the weather feels is related to what is 'normal' for your area, to claim a horse would need water every 15 minutes at that temp is crazy - and I would pay money to see someone who actually got their horse _to_ drink every 15 minutes! I did my last 50 mile endurance ride with a heat index of 92F (33C), completed with all As, and the horse did not drink every 15 minutes.
> ...



Considering you tell us all how wrong your friend is all the time, I have no idea why you'd choose to use it as an example. Unless maybe you agreed with these thoughts until otherwise pointed out.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Rainaisabelle said:


> Considering you tell us all how wrong your friend is all the time, I have no idea why you'd choose to use it as an example. Unless maybe you agreed with these thoughts until otherwise pointed out.


No I never agreed. Anyways, enough about her, I shouldn't be talking about my friends on here.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

For the release form, I need all riders to sign it, should I do up a form for each rider or just make the client the name of the barn (hosting it) and then put a sheet at the end of riders to sign?


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

Hoofpic said:


> For the release form, I need all riders to sign it, should I do up a form for each rider or just make the client the name of the barn (hosting it) and then put a sheet at the end of riders to sign?


That is a question that management of the event should answer.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Hoofpic said:


> I've never been to Arizona so I can't comment but isn't the air down there different?


Different how? Air is air, dude. We breathe the same 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, and 1% argon, carbon dioxide, and methane, as everybody else on the planet. We're not some strange desert-dwelling humanoid species who survives in a different, rarified atmosphere. :icon_rolleyes: The town I live in sits at 4500ft above sea level. The next closest town is a mile (5280ft) above sea level.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Hoofpic said:


> No I never agreed. Anyways, enough about her, I shouldn't be talking about my friends on here.





So are you still shooting the show or did it get canceled due to "heat"?


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Hoofpic said:


> For the release form, I need all riders to sign it, should I do up a form for each rider or just make the client the name of the barn (hosting it) and then put a sheet at the end of riders to sign?


More like...they make YOU sign a release, so if you get run down in the arena, you dont sue THEM.....


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

There was talk a little earlier about insurance. Here's a good treason why to have it, regardless of cost.

One of the girls I work with got married the first weekend in July. She hired a photographer (who happened to be a friend of the family) and paid $1200 for her services to receive no less than 400 photos of her choice chosen from around 2000 the photographer promised to take. This last week, she received about 400 photos from the wedding, NONE OF WHICH SHE EVEN REMOTELY LIKED, along with a phone call from the photographer stating that she had taken over 2000 photos, as per their agreement, but had somehow LOST the SD cards that contained all the photos but the 400 (crappy) ones she sent my friend. Now my friend is looking into suing the photographer for breach of contract. If the photographer is insured, it can help protect against that sort of lawsuit.


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

I have never heard of a law in Alberta stating that shows must be cancelled over 28 degrees. The Stampede was just on and they did not cancel a single event due to heat (and there were a few over 30 celsius days). The one reason it DID get cancelled was because of lightning. 

My instructor rode in a western dressage show in +30 the other weekend by Didsbury.....so I'm not sure where your friend gets her info but it sounds made up. 

Guess I am in big doodoo b/c I rode my horse on a 3 hour trail ride today in +28 celsius. 

I don't understand why the barn would have you prepare release forms for the riders. I would think you would have to sign a release form as stated above. Are you actually permitted to be in the ring while riders are competing, or taking photos from the rail where the spectators are?


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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

I've not had any place I've gone to require a release form be signed by riders; granted I've not been working and its just a hobby. However I don't think any pros that I've spoken to have had to use them either. It might be a little different at shows with kids, however in general most events are public events and there's often little to no photography restrictions. 
Chances are you'd only want a release if in the case you were promoting your business with the photos, and then it would be far easier to go after that on an as needed basis once you know what the photos look like.

At this stage you more need to just get there and shoot and not worry about photos on your website and such - chances are your first few shows will be duds as you learn both how to shoot this style of photography and the sites themselves to get good angles.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Hoofpic said:


> Now for tomorrow, if it does not get cancelled. I need to be prepared and do some research (*try to find pics*) of this arena so I can get a feel for what the setting is like and I can pre plan how I will make the most out of that space. This will be so fun though! There will be lots of fast movement, fast moving horses, so I need to get some good action shots while at it. It will be a mix between action and portraiture.


This confuses me. You said the arena is 15 minutes from your barn. Why try to find pics of it to study when you can just drive your lazy butt over there and walk it yourself? If I can WALK a mile and a half to my barn in 95F heat with 30% humidity to be there for the farrier to come trim my horse, you can drive an extra 15 minutes in your air-conditioned car to get a feel for the arena you'll be shooting. If you can't be bothered to do that, quit now.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Dry and humid?
Perhaps damp and humid.if ventilation is poor. That does not change the fact that Alberta is known as having a dry climate, versus one with true humidity, like Vancouver, southern Ontario, all around big bodies of water, not inland


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Hoofpic said:


> For the release form, I need all riders to sign it, should I do up a form for each rider or just make the client the name of the barn (hosting it) and then put a sheet at the end of riders to sign?


Never heard of a release form for a photographer.
Venues have to carry their own insurance for any event, and many venues also require all riders to have an AEF membership in Alberta


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Tomorrow is a go! Im excited to shoot my first show and hoping to provide a great experience for all the riders and learn a lot myself.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Different how? Air is air, dude. We breathe the same 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, and 1% argon, carbon dioxide, and methane, as everybody else on the planet. We're not some strange desert-dwelling humanoid species who survives in a different, rarified atmosphere. :icon_rolleyes: The town I live in sits at 4500ft above sea level. The next closest town is a mile (5280ft) above sea level.


Well if a show is considering cancelling a show on a day that is expected to be 29C then that obviously means something. Obviously its borderline too hot for them.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Far as riding and temps-last show it was 28C, where chaps long sleeve shirts do become a bit uncomfortable, but I also rode in the mountains last week, 30 degrees C
Needless to say, I was not dressed to show, but rode in a tank top. Horses cooled down in the river crossings, plus some higher trails that were both shady in places, with a breeze


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

greentree said:


> More like...they make YOU sign a release, so if you get run down in the arena, you dont sue THEM.....


Yes I expect to sign one for them but I was told that I need to bring one for all the riders to sign. I guess it is so if their horse runs me over, I don't go after them. 

I made the form today and have printed it out.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Hoofpic said:


> I have considered this and still am, the only thing is costs. I know a friend of mine tried to convince me to take a 2 day weekend equine photography workshop that runs 2 or 3 times a year up in the country at that trail riding place that I go to. But for $450CDN, no thanks. That is a full months board right there. :|


Cheap investment, if you really want to become professional
People that shoot local open shows, are a dime a dozen and a flash in the pan
It is either a business, or a hobby, and you proceed accordingly


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

Could the release be for the OP to use photos as advertisement, or to be posted on the internet? I would want to know and have the right to say, that I do not want my image used for such purposes.

Is that what the release is for?


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Hoofpic said:


> Well if a show is considering cancelling a show on a day that is expected to be 29C then that obviously means something. Obviously its borderline too hot for them.


And thanks for not even remotely answering my question. :icon_rolleyes:

Take a look at the photos on this website. This is our local rodeo held every year since 1888. Should give you some idea on how to properly frame up and expose action shots. Note that the majority of the events are held in the evening, at or after dusk.
World's Oldest Rodeo | Prescott, AZ | Prescott Frontier Days®, Inc. | Photo Gallery
This is the site of the guy who shot the rodeo:
http://www.chute4u.com

He was in the arena taking these pics, NOT on the rail.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Here are the list of events for tomorrow. I will be there for about 5 hours.

Show- Pleasure, quitation & Command
Gymkhana- Barrels, Poles, Flags, & Thread the Needle

There is a half way break inbetween so that will really help.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> And thanks for not even remotely answering my question. :icon_rolleyes:
> 
> Take a look at the photos on this website. This is our local rodeo held every year since 1888. Should give you some idea on how to properly frame up and expose action shots. Note that the majority of the events are held in the evening, at or after dusk.
> World's Oldest Rodeo | Prescott, AZ | Prescott Frontier Days®, Inc. | Photo Gallery
> ...


I posted a general reply with the answer. I am not ignoring your question.

Thank you for the links, I will take a peak right now.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

sarahfromsc said:


> Could the release be for the OP to use photos as advertisement, or to be posted on the internet? I would want to know and have the right to say, that I do not want my image used for such purposes.
> 
> Is that what the release is for?


Our agreement is that I provide at one photo for each rider (by email, very small watermark in bottom corner), in exchange for me using that photo and the rest of the photos that I take at the event in my portfolio.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Smilie said:


> Dry and humid?
> Perhaps damp and humid.if ventilation is poor. That does not change the fact that Alberta is known as having a dry climate, versus one with true humidity, like Vancouver, southern Ontario, all around big bodies of water, not inland


It's hard to explain, I know many Calgarians who like heat elsewhere but when it hits 30C here, they find it too hot. Again (and this is just my opinion) but the lack of a beach here really hurts. Go to Vancouver and the air there is just overall so much better.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> There was talk a little earlier about insurance. Here's a good treason why to have it, regardless of cost.
> 
> One of the girls I work with got married the first weekend in July. She hired a photographer (who happened to be a friend of the family) and paid $1200 for her services to receive no less than 400 photos of her choice chosen from around 2000 the photographer promised to take. This last week, she received about 400 photos from the wedding, NONE OF WHICH SHE EVEN REMOTELY LIKED, along with a phone call from the photographer stating that she had taken over 2000 photos, as per their agreement, but had somehow LOST the SD cards that contained all the photos but the 400 (crappy) ones she sent my friend. Now my friend is looking into suing the photographer for breach of contract. If the photographer is insured, it can help protect against that sort of lawsuit.


I will be getting insurance forsure, it's one of the top things for me to do and complete. Better safe than sorry like you prove in your example.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Overread said:


> I've not had any place I've gone to require a release form be signed by riders; granted I've not been working and its just a hobby. However I don't think any pros that I've spoken to have had to use them either. It might be a little different at shows with kids, however in general most events are public events and there's often little to no photography restrictions.
> Chances are you'd only want a release if in the case you were promoting your business with the photos, and then it would be far easier to go after that on an as needed basis once you know what the photos look like.
> 
> At this stage you more need to just get there and shoot and not worry about photos on your website and such - chances are your first few shows will be duds as you learn both how to shoot this style of photography and the sites themselves to get good angles.


Makes sense. It's all a learning experience for me since I haven't done any projects yet. What I learn tomorrow will be extremely valuable for the future. 

I will bring my print portfolio just in case anyone asks to see my work so far. 

I'm not sure how many riders will be in it, but I have printed more than enough forms. I don't think it will be as big as the show last week that I proposed to shoot in but got declined. 

I will be getting to the arena an hour early to walk it, look around and plan how I will shoot and ways I can make the most of the environment. All I know right now is that I will be in an arena, but from looking at photos online, this arena could be similar to the show from last week, a massive arena that is on part of a racetrack. Which is fine by me, the only thing I will have to battle is the sun and heat since there is zero shade out there. With that being said, I think I should bring my ballcap with me even if I do not use it. It's going to be hot so I have to have my water close by.

I was going to head over today but the premises is blocks off and I wouldn't have access in. But an hour tomorrow will be more than enough time. 

There are so many thoughts running through my mind right now, I need to relax tomorrow. I have a feeling that I might be a bit nervous for the first 10mins. Hopefully not!


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Hoofpic said:


> It's hard to explain, I know many Calgarians who like heat elsewhere but when it hits 30C here, they find it too hot. Again (and this is just my opinion) but the lack of a beach here really hurts. Go to Vancouver and the air there is just overall so much better.


There's no beach here in Arizona except for a few manmade lakes. Yet people move here from all across the country for our dry air because of its health benefits. I know of several people who can't even visit other states because they can't breathe in any amount of humidity. 

So really, dry air (like in the desert or on the prairie, like a lot of Alberta is) is better for you and most often preferred to humid air, as can be found near the coast and lakes.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

I will also be bringing this with me tomorrow. Saves the strain in the knees. Literally all sports photographers use one of these (at least for outdoor sports or court sports like badminton, tennis, etc.)

I won't be using it all day, but I know which situations I will use it.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Hoofpic said:


> It's hard to explain, I know many Calgarians who like heat elsewhere but when it hits 30C here, they find it too hot. Again (and this is just my opinion) but the lack of a beach here really hurts. Go to Vancouver and the air there is just overall so much better.



Wrong. Try 30 C where it is truly humid, compared to Calgary, where we have dry heat
I grew up in southern Ontario, worked in that heat in the tobacco fields, lived in an old farm house with no air conditioning,. Sweat would soak me immediately after a shower, and often I could not sleep until 5 AM
Try walking out of an air condtioned store in Niagara Falls , for instance, where I did my practical at the Greater Niagara Hospital, and it was like hitting a wall in the summer
That is humidity, and Alberta is nothing like that-trust me!
Can't compare to sitting somewhere hot, at a pool or a beach , but working or riding in those conditions!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Hoofpic said:


> I will also be bringing this with me tomorrow. Saves the strain in the knees. Literally all sports photographers use one of these (at least for outdoor sports or court sports like badminton, tennis, etc.)
> 
> I won't be using it all day, but I know which situations I will use it.


Never saw an equine photographer using one of those step stools. It is hard, dusty work, just ask my son or anyone that has done it


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Hoofpic said:


> Yes I expect to sign one for them but I was told that I need to bring one for all the riders to sign. I guess it is so if their horse runs me over, I don't go after them.
> 
> I made the form today and have printed it out.



Good luck! I have never signed a release form for a photographer. Does that facility/venue carry any liability insurance?


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> There's no beach here in Arizona except for a few manmade lakes. Yet people move here from all across the country for our dry air because of its health benefits. I know of several people who can't even visit other states because they can't breathe in any amount of humidity.
> 
> So really, dry air (like in the desert or on the prairie, like a lot of Alberta is) is better for you and most often preferred to humid air, as can be found near the coast and lakes.


Well everyone is different in how they handle the heat, I know I don't like heat. 20C is perfect for me, 15C even better. I don't travel so I am completely unaware of the air elsewhere.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Smilie said:


> Never saw an equine photographer using one of those step stools. It is hard, dusty work, just ask my son or anyone that has done it


Well I did pick up knee pads and will be having those on but one benefit that a small stool has is, it can be easier to stabilize your shots when in a stationary location for a few minutes. 

My favourite position is to have one elbow sit just above my knee while waiting for shots. And because I am tall, I can use that to my advantage as I can always move my knee in or lift my heel to get a steeper angle. I want to shoot high (meaning I am lower than the participants) and shoot tight.


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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

Different sports events are different in how mobile you can be.
In most equine events I've found that you can generally move around somewhat, although sometimes there's only one or two viable spots to shoot from. Really depends how the venue is setup and how busy it is. Very busy events and you might well get locked in by the crowd; less busy and you will have more room to move around. 
This is without considering being ring-side or just not being in the public viewing platforms/areas. It's one reason that many photographers are in the arena or in a special spot when events are more public and where the crowds are larger. That way the photographer can work without bumping or getting in the way of the viewing public.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Overread said:


> Different sports events are different in how mobile you can be.
> In most equine events I've found that you can generally move around somewhat, although sometimes there's only one or two viable spots to shoot from. Really depends how the venue is setup and how busy it is. Very busy events and you might well get locked in by the crowd; less busy and you will have more room to move around.
> This is without considering being ring-side or just not being in the public viewing platforms/areas. It's one reason that many photographers are in the arena or in a special spot when events are more public and where the crowds are larger. That way the photographer can work without bumping or getting in the way of the viewing public.


It will be interesting to see where I can roam, but from the sounds of it, I will be in the arena. I want to make use of my 85mm today!


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Got a general pic of the arena I will be in. The great thing is that I will have bright sunlight and not have to deal with shadows. Bad news is, looks like no shade, I will be in the sun. Better put the ball cap on.


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## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

Wow, ok. First off, 82 degrees is about what it was for our show yesterday. EVERYONE was commenting how it was absolutely PERFECT weather for the show since we had low humidity for once (it had POURED and flooded many areas Friday morning) and we had a gentle breeze. I regularly have to ride in 92 degree weather, just have to tailor my ride to the heat if the humidity is a little high. We've NEVER had a show cancelled due to heat and humidity, and it gets NASTY here with humidity. Until it rained, we would walk out of work and walk straight into a wall of humidity. Literally instantly start sweating and it's unbearable to even be outside. I despise heat too, but it's something I've had to get used to.

As for the stool, please don't. All that is doing is adding a potential dangerous obstacle in a situation if a horse got loose. I have NEVER in the MANY years I've shown seen a photographer use one of those or knee pads. I really, really wouldn't bring that stool.

Now for the releases, I have never ever signed a waiver to have my pictures taken. It's a very well known fact here that if a photographer (show photographer at least) takes your picture they CAN use it for publication. Doesn't matter if it's a kid or an adult. It can be use since they own the rights to the pictures they take. I guess it's a different atmosphere down here because when I saw Izzie and I on the show photographers post card with a deal for shows, I was excited. Like we were awesome enough to be used to showcase her work.

Either way, I've never signed a release. Ever.

I sure hope you studied what types of photos the people in those classes will want, which was one of the recommendations I gave you earlier that you blatantly ignored. Guessing you don't like being told what an actual exhibitor would say.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Tazzie said:


> I sure hope you studied what types of photos the people in those classes will want, which was one of the recommendations I gave you earlier that you blatantly ignored. Guessing you don't like being told what an actual exhibitor would say.


Easy now. Just because I didnt' reply yet doesn't mean I ignored the advice. I am always trying my best to keep up with all the replies.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

I would never sign a blanket release for my photos to be used until I saw the photos. If I hated the photos I would want absolutely no one to ever see them.


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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

I've seen people using chairs (rather than a stool) when they've been doing X-Country events where they are camped out at a single jump. The chair used between horses since there isn't really anything else you can do and some courses don't let you shoot more than one jump at a time. 

For showjumping or dressage though it tends to benefit the photographer to be more mobile. Even a few paces can let you get two or three jumps. 

As for kneepads that depends; some trousers have insert ones so you might never see them. It also depends if the person is kneeling down for shots or just free standing. If the latter then pads won't be needed, however if you're kneeling for shots then a pad can be a big help - nothing worse than kneeling for ages or going to kneel and getting a sharp pain in the leg. 



The event site looks good, nice and open and in the sun; that said remember half way through the day you'll have to move because the sun will be coming from the other direction. Also as it gets nearer and nearer midday you'll get more shadows if the cloud cover is light.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Breaktime.

So far the biggest hurdle hasnt been the heat but the wind! I am staying relatively cool so far because strong winds, dirt flying everywhere, in my eyes a couple times. Beem constantly wiping down the camera lol.

Back drops I cant say are entirely exciting. Either its white bleacher seats or white tarp to another arena or some random tools and junk sitting in a yard or a neat shed with advertising on it. 

Ive been moving around a lot so far.


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## edf (Dec 20, 2013)

I don't have anything really insightful to say other than I admire your courage and your ambition. You desired something, you set your goal on it, and you actively sought out to follow what you dream to do. You set yourself up to start following your dream. I am proud of you.

One thing though, and I am not going to harp on you or anything: but I would seriously consider taking that equine photography class. I think you have a decent foundation, however, as an artist myself ( not a photographer) I can say from experience: you can never know too much. Having the keen eye and natural ability to see things in that artistic view will only go so far. One needs the technical studies as well. Every painters first few paintings- while may be nice- aren't as refined as they could be. Why? they lack experience. They lack the full knowledge. They lack the technical skill. They may have that artistic eye yes, but a painter still needs to learn to paint. A photographer still needs to learn to shoot.

I am not saying you don't know how to shoot. I see potential in your photo's. But if you really want to take photography to that next step, I think some training would be needed. Yes, the class is pricey. But you know what? Hiring a photographer- a good one- isn't cheap. Art isn't cheap. Maybe if you put some money aside each month and save up, you could take that class in the future and it won't seem like shelling out alarge chunk of change at once. Or maybe find some cheaper classes. But word of advice: it takes money to make money.

I play around with photography, and got some lucky shots. One, I loved. A lot of things were great about it- got a lot of great crits on it on an art forum- until a photographer came a long...LOL. They, too, loved that they saw- but saw some technical aspects of it that was off- and explained to me how to make it so much better. Of course, I didn't really follow it since I am not a photographer ( didnt have a fancy camera, just got lucky with a point and shoot digital one, and the photographer criting my work knew that.) See, in this situation, yes, I had that artistic vision- set it up good, had a lot of things going well, but lacked the know how to take that shot from being just a great, lucky shot that was pleasing to the eye to a spectacular image that had everything going right in it.

Point is :I do not want to see your photo's stuck in that situation like mine.

By all means, go out and find places to shoot at like you are today. Gain that experience. But open your mind to some more schooling/teaching to help you set yourself up to be successful-doesn't have to be in the near future, but I would look into it sometime in the future.

But, overall, good for you for following your dream. I wish you the best of luck!


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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

Lots of dust flying around means two things:
1) Having two cameras with two different lenses is a bonus as it cuts down on potential sensor dust as you don't have to change lenses (although you can, of course, put camera and lenses into a bag to change; much like film photographers used bags for changing film.

2) It's one of the few occasions where a clear class filter can be of benefit in cutting down casual scratches on the front element. Dust won't hurt it typically but it can be a little protection against light scratches. 

Course depends how strong the dust is, generally speaking its not normally a huge issue where I've shot; but different sites and environments bring their own challenges.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

edf said:


> I don't have anything really insightful to say other than I admire your courage and your ambition. You desired something, you set your goal on it, and you actively sought out to follow what you dream to do. You set yourself up to start following your dream. I am proud of you.


Thank you



> One thing though, and I am not going to harp on you or anything: but I would seriously consider taking that equine photography class. I think you have a decent foundation, however, as an artist myself ( not a photographer) I can say from experience: you can never know too much. Having the keen eye and natural ability to see things in that artistic view will only go so far. One needs the technical studies as well. Every painters first few paintings- while may be nice- aren't as refined as they could be. Why? they lack experience. They lack the full knowledge. They lack the technical skill. They may have that artistic eye yes, but a painter still needs to learn to paint. A photographer still needs to learn to shoot.
> 
> I am not saying you don't know how to shoot. I see potential in your photo's. But if you really want to take photography to that next step, I think some training would be needed. Yes, the class is pricey. But you know what? Hiring a photographer- a good one- isn't cheap. Art isn't cheap. Maybe if you put some money aside each month and save up, you could take that class in the future and it won't seem like shelling out alarge chunk of change at once. Or maybe find some cheaper classes. But word of advice: it takes money to make money.


I think I will take it eventually, I will find the right person or course to take.



> I play around with photography, and got some lucky shots. One, I loved. A lot of things were great about it- got a lot of great crits on it on an art forum- until a photographer came a long...LOL. They, too, loved that they saw- but saw some technical aspects of it that was off- and explained to me how to make it so much better. Of course, I didn't really follow it since I am not a photographer ( didnt have a fancy camera, just got lucky with a point and shoot digital one, and the photographer criting my work knew that.) See, in this situation, yes, I had that artistic vision- set it up good, had a lot of things going well, but lacked the know how to take that shot from being just a great, lucky shot that was pleasing to the eye to a spectacular image that had everything going right in it.
> 
> Point is :I do not want to see your photo's stuck in that situation like mine.
> 
> ...


Okay I will open my mind up to having someone else teach me. 

The only thing is, I actually have a very difficult time in shooting stuff that doesn't interest me. Photo walks? Always found it boring. So I have very picky tastes in what I shoot as my interests are so narrow and that is my biggest downfall and potentially a factor that can hold me back.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Overread said:


> Lots of dust flying around means two things:
> 1) Having two cameras with two different lenses is a bonus as it cuts down on potential sensor dust as you don't have to change lenses (although you can, of course, put camera and lenses into a bag to change; much like film photographers used bags for changing film.


If I do shows, I will absolutely have to pick up a second body (same one as I have now). I hate changing lenses so much and I'm OCD in very dusty environments. Today the wind was really strong in the morning and still maintain a strong wind through the afternoon. There was dust and sand all over. I looked like I walked through a sandstorm by the end of the day.

I just spent some time to clean all my gear, it was filthy. This is one situation where I wish I had weathersealed gear. Could just dunk it under the running tap. 



> 2) It's one of the few occasions where a clear class filter can be of benefit in cutting down casual scratches on the front element. Dust won't hurt it typically but it can be a little protection against light scratches.


True. Dust won't hurt lenses but arena sand can. I do not feel comfortable leaving loose sand particles on so I always clean it off right away. I normally don't clean my lens all that often. My barn gets really dusty too and I usually don't have to clean my gear all that often but today where I was, it was 10,000 times worse.



> Course depends how strong the dust is, generally speaking its not normally a huge issue where I've shot; but different sites and environments bring their own challenges.


Today was bad, really bad. I must have got dust in my eyes 5 or 6 times and I wear glasses. Plus it doesn't help when you shoot so low, when the horses get near they kick sand your way lol.

You absolutely cannot get sand in your camera sensor. You can immediately kill your camera just from that. I had my camera bag in the shade behind a small kids playhouse and I changed my lenses behind there.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Today went well but there was a few things i should note.

I was not able to shoot in the arena, the closest I could get was outside the rail. So I took all my pics peaking through heavy thick wire. Not the most comfortable and ideal but I made it work. I was laying down or sitting on my stool a lot of the time. I initially left my stool in the car but once I found out that I couldn't be in the arena, I went to get it. I was also laying down on my tummy for a lot of the shots but it's very awkward.

As I already mentioned, the wind was really strong all day. It was really cool in the morning but come the afternoon when the Gymkhana event started it was really hot!

The arena was not all that wide, I had some issues when I was playing around with my lenses. My 85 was actually usable but when the rider would be along the rail I was at, I would be too close. I couldn't move back because I would then catch the wire in the frame. 

The dust was an issue. There was times when I was about to get shots and then get splashed with sand and I have dust in my eyes and there goes my shot.

I learned quick and got in the groove pretty well.

For the barrels, a lot of the riders looped the barrels in the wrong rotation so I constantly had to keep switching spots. I planned it all out ahead of time so that I planted my spot to where the riders would loop away then towards me but it didn't work out for some riders. Oh well, not much I could do.

Other than that, it was hot! REALLY HOT! 

Two camera bodies is a must. Instead of constantly reaching for lenses and swapping them, popping caps on and off. All I need to do is just walk back and pick up the other camera.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

There was times where I wished I was in the arena. I could roam anywhere any not have to deal with wire or tall grass getting in the frame. 

Believe it or not but my 70-300 even at the wide end was a bit too close up for some situations cause I was only maybe 20-25ft from the riders. There was times where I wish I had my 18-140 but I left it at home (as it is for sale).

18-140 would have done really well in this case because I could have gone much more wide open when needed.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Did you sell any pictures???


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

This is where knowing your subject matter comes in handy. If you had done any research into the disciplines you would be shooting (as I believe several of us suggested), you would have known that there is no "wrong way" in barrels. You run whichever direction your horse is comfortable. As long as you run the pattern in the correct sequence and maintain the same direction throughout (there is a prescribed entrance and exit to the barrels, depending on which direction you start out in), you are good. For example, my best friend's TB gelding was more comfortable running to the left, while her QH mare is more comfortable running to the right. Knowing that the starting direction could change, depending on the horse and rider's preference, would have helped you plan your shooting accordingly, instead of having to run around looking like a schmuck without a clue.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

I have created a picture thread from today. 

This is my first show so take it easy on me

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-pictures/my-first-horse-show-picture-evaluation-769145/

Will be updating as I post edit these photos. There are a lot of good ones (haven't gone through all of them yet) but there are some shots that I am REALLY proud of.

I said that I will be giving ONE photo to each rider, I think I will be doing 3,4,5 just because some riders I have more than one equally good one. If I want to promote myself, I really should give each rider ALL of their good photos.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

greentree said:


> Did you sell any pictures???


Actually yes I did, two photos.


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## edf (Dec 20, 2013)

> The only thing is, I actually have a very difficult time in shooting stuff that doesn't interest me. Photo walks? Always found it boring. So I have very picky tastes in what I shoot as my interests are so narrow and that is my biggest downfall and potentially a factor that can hold me back


I hear you, truely I do. I took a writing class so I can learn to write better. Of all the assignments, our final was the only one we could write our own ideas completely. Some of the assignments- I was writing situations I normally wouldn't. It definatly took more will power to get through them. But as time went on- some of them started to captivate me. I realize I tend to write a mood/theme better for some reason. While some short stories werent fun, I learned some things from them- one being- I don't like writing about candles burning...LOL. But if you learn how to photography a scenery scape- that will help you understand how a great background setting for a horse as the main focus... see what I mean? Now, I def wouldn't pay a lot for a class that is focusing on something I didn't much care for, but if the price is right and you have the time, it wouldn't hurt. 

 Good luck in your journey!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I can't view the photos.
Do you need a special membership to do so?
When I click on the link, I get the message that I do not have permission to view pictures


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Hoofpic said:


> I have created a picture thread from today.
> 
> This is my first show so take it easy on me
> 
> ...


Give them one, then suggest that they BUY the others. Offer to photoshop or retouch it for a little more $. That upselling is how you make money and repeat customers.

I am so glad you sold a couple!!


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## edf (Dec 20, 2013)

I cant see the pics either... but then again, no links ever work for me on horse forum.... I really want to see them!


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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

Odd the thread was active a while ago as I could see the photos and even commented?


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

My picture thread for the show got deleted. I give up, I thought we have been over this before. It's unfortunate that I can't share them with the HF community because I got some REALLY good ones coming up. In fact, it's only going to get better from here. Hugely dissapointed that I won't be able to share. I was REALLY looking forward to this.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

greentree said:


> Give them one, then suggest that they BUY the others. Offer to photoshop or retouch it for a little more $. That upselling is how you make money and repeat customers.
> 
> I am so glad you sold a couple!!


Thank you, great idea, that's exactly what I will do.

Provide one and then offer the rest for money. 

My only question is, the one that I do provide to each rider, I will still be putting my watermark on it in the bottom corner (but it will be a lot smaller than what I usually do), hope you guys realize this is what every photographer does. Bought photo or not, the watermark still stays on, it just shrinks drastically in size.

P.S. the two that I sold are not horse photos, it was a duck photo and a sunset one.


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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

As for watermarks in general most photographers I've dealt with were selling in prints and prints the watermarks were never ever on the photos themselves; they were often on the reverse. A couple might use small signatures and nothing more in the corner. Digital prints is a bit of a minefield of opinions and choices with less established guidelines/patterns of behaviour/expectations.


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## edf (Dec 20, 2013)

Can you make a website for yourself? Display your portfolio there ( and pm me the link...LOL)


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

edf said:


> Can you make a website for yourself? Display your portfolio there ( and pm me the link...LOL)


I will eventually be getting a website built, hopefully sooner than later.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Okay I just bought my domain

This was tough to choose because I will be doing both photography and videography. The generic and most common is to have "[Name]Photography.com but that wouldn't be near as effective IMO. I wanted to keep it short as possible but this is really the shortest I can make it.

This is pure Name Photography & Videography. No company name, when you freelance you want people to remember your stuff by your name. 

I've also decided that the only social media channels I will be using for this is Facebook (business page) and Flickr (might switch to Instagram). I don't want too many social media channels.


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