# Horse hind end conformation problem



## Oldhorselady

So, I've been trying to figure out what has been going on with my mare's legs. Vet thought she was just butt high and still growing since she is a draft cross. I had not put to rest EPM or wobblers etc....just wasn't sure. She just started doing light trotting under saddle and now you can clearly see her tripping herself up with her hind feet. Wondering if this is a conformation issue and just have to live with it or if there are excercises to do? Maybe once she is more balanced she will improve? She seems to swing that right hind foot in. I will try and get a better video tomorrow. Any thoughts would be appreciated. I plan on having her re-evaluated.

snickers conformation problem with right hind leg.... - YouTube


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## Skyseternalangel

It looks like something going on higher up like in her hip. There's some pain.. I don't think it's just conformation.

Can you get a picture of her legs from behind with her squared up?


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## Oldhorselady

Skyseternalangel said:


> It looks like something going on higher up like in her hip. There's some pain.. I don't think it's just conformation.
> 
> Can you get a picture of her legs from behind with her squared up?


Yes, I will get more pics and video tomorrow. Not sure if it's painful....she never acts lame, she just trips herself from behind sometimes...even not under saddle. I was thinking hip too....didn't know if it would be a sacraliliac type thing....guess the vet would have to tell me. It also is not consistent. When she runs around sometimes when she down transitions...it looks like she gets her butt underneath her like in a sliding stop and trips herself. Like I said, I will get better pics and video tomorrow. Thanks though.


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## Oldhorselady

Skyseternalangel said:


> It looks like something going on higher up like in her hip. There's some pain.. I don't think it's just conformation.
> 
> Can you get a picture of her legs from behind with her squared up?


I didn't have anyone with me this morning for pics squared up....I did take this video of her walking though. I'll ride her later and have someone video her.

snickers walking 2 - YouTube


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## Clementine

Doesn't look like a conformation issue -- she has decent angles to her croup, hocks & pasterns, and her hips look fairly even. To diagnose this problem, we would need to see pictures of her standing square, in profile and from behind. And ideally also video from the side and from behind of someone walking & trotting her in a straight line. It's impossible to tell anything from videos of her trotting a million miles away and meandering around in a field. 

However, two things come to mind when I hear tripping issues with the hind feet. First, as you've already mentioned, EPM. The other, which would be far preferable, trimming/shoeing issues in the feet. If the medial-lateral balance is off in the hind feet, it would be pretty easy for her to interfere with herself. It almost looks like there's something going on in the walk, but it's hard to tell without seeing her move in a straight line.


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## Clementine

In hand or free lunging videos would be the most helpful - under saddle adds too many variables. (Saddle fit, rider balance, etc)


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## Oldhorselady

Clementine said:


> In hand or free lunging videos would be the most helpful - under saddle adds too many variables. (Saddle fit, rider balance, etc)


Thank you Clementine. I will lunge her as well and have pics of her standing square too later this afternoon. I'm so frustrated. She is such a good horse. She has had two trims since I've owned her and her third will be due on May 25th. I will discuss this with my farrier. When trying the other tests on her for wobblers, EPM etc....it doesn't fit. She backs fine, has good tail tone and strength, doesn't swing her legs out in a tight circle, she has good lateral flexion.....hmmmmmm. She is a spotted draft cross and three years old....hoping that with some exercises her muscles will improve maybe? I'll get those pics and videos today...thanks so much again. I welcome all the help and advice.


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## Skyseternalangel

I think something may have happened in pasture.. she pulled something or fell or whatever and it's just got her out of whack. I would have someone come take a look at her, like a chiropractor or an equine masseuse (or that lady) or even the vet so see if you guys can pinpoint the "block"

She stands fine, but when she walks, she goes VERY toed out and her legs get to close together. It could be her confirmation but her legs just seem kind of weak when she takes a step. Does anyone else see that?


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## TimberRidgeRanch

OLDHORSELADY

First I like him lol 2nd I am seeing some lameness that to me seems to be in the hip area. Shes favoring that leg with each step. She may of pulled a muscle or is a simple strain. Any chance she could of been playing with the others and got kicked? either way I am seeing some favoring with that hind leg. I hope all is okay and Snickers heals soon.

TRR


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## Oldhorselady

I have a few pictures and a couple videos....it was hard to capture the video stuff. A few people viewed her and said that when she trotted under saddle it was almost like she was gaited in her hind...wierd rythem, very quick....but could be because she is just learning the under saddle thing. She never seems to be in any kind of pain, always willing, always happy and upbeat, never puts her ears back, swishes her tail or bucks. It really is quite mysterius. I will have another vet look at her, but already had one look at her twice. I have owned her since last fall and she has been this way the whole time and actually has improved. She is gaining muscle in her rump now too. I was told by a friend of my who is a John Lyons friend/trainer...who is also baffled by this....to keep doing lateral type exercises with her and yielding her hindquarters etc. along with hills and ground poles to gain more strength. She is quite the little horse.


















snickers lunging - YouTube

doodoo.mov - YouTube

If it's just bad conformation, coordination or breeding....I am ok with all of that. She is a great horse and I accept her for the goofball she is. I just am trying to weed out any bad possabilities I guess.


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## verona1016

She's standing quite heavily on her forehand with her back legs stretched out behind her, front legs spread wide and back legs quite narrow. It also looks like she's dipping her back down more than just being a little butt-high (possibly due to the back legs being placed so far back?) Does she always stand like that?


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## thesilverspear

I agree, she looks "off" behind and I can't pinpoint why. Is she usually that reluctant to pick up and stay in the canter?


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## tinyliny

It looks like her way of walking is "braiding". I think that's what it's called. Where the foot goes more in front of the other, as if the hrose is tight rope walking. Causes strange wear patterns on the outside of the hoof, and some additional stresses on the hocks but if it's the inherent way of going fo rthe horse, then trying to change it with forced shoeing may be worse. I did see that sort of "gaiting" like way of going. But, she doesn't seem in pain to me.


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## Oldhorselady

verona1016 said:


> She's standing quite heavily on her forehand with her back legs stretched out behind her, front legs spread wide and back legs quite narrow. It also looks like she's dipping her back down more than just being a little butt-high (possibly due to the back legs being placed so far back?) Does she always stand like that?


Can't say 'always', it is quite wierd....it's like she is very limber and jello-like in her hind end, but not weak. She is such a willing horse and will literally place her feet where ever you want her to....even cross them...but not to where she displays neurological symptoms. She has a very 'goofy' personality and is just der der der......:shock:


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## Oldhorselady

thesilverspear said:


> I agree, she looks "off" behind and I can't pinpoint why. Is she usually that reluctant to pick up and stay in the canter?


It's not hard for her to pick up the canter....it was hard to while I was one-handed though....lol. However, she has not been in too lengthy of canters as of yet or under saddle because I just started her....she just turned three. One of my friends said it almost looks like she is gaited when she was trotting with me under saddle......nobody seems to know what it is. But, like I said, it's not like she is weak....she will do lateral flexion and yield her hindquarters on the ground and under saddle just fine.


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## Oldhorselady

tinyliny said:


> It looks like her way of walking is "braiding". I think that's what it's called. Where the foot goes more in front of the other, as if the hrose is tight rope walking. Causes strange wear patterns on the outside of the hoof, and some additional stresses on the hocks but if it's the inherent way of going fo rthe horse, then trying to change it with forced shoeing may be worse. I did see that sort of "gaiting" like way of going. But, she doesn't seem in pain to me.


She doesn't walk like when she is at the trot and not too sure with the canter as of yet....I just started riding her under saddle since she just turned three. There are no strange wear patterns on her hooves at all and it has been five weeks since her last trim. I'll discuss it with the farrier at her next trim on the 25th and see if he sees anything odd. She yields her hindquarter fine on the ground and under saddle, good tail tone, butt muscles are building. She definately doesn't seem to ever be in pain...she is a very happy acting horse. Guess it's a wait and see thing.....


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## Oldhorselady

So, first....today when lunging Snicker's at the canter, I noticed that after a couple of laps around she will try and switch her hind legs or does a hop thing and she trips herself up. It is when she canters to the left. Any thoughts? Also, she just turned three....so I know there are varying opinions on this but....how long should I be lunging her at this age? I didn't want to do too many circles, but I need to work her as well.?


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## crimsonsky

it looks/feels like she's stabbing the ground with her back feet at the trot and then the canter she's hopping almost with the back end. like something it locked up and not allowing her to freely use her back/hips/stifles/hocks. i'd guess that's more of a stifle issue but it's so hard to say because the videos kind of made me queezy (sp). haha

edit: she also isn't reaching with her front end at all it seems. perhaps it's in her back?


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## Oldhorselady

crimsonsky said:


> it looks/feels like she's stabbing the ground with her back feet at the trot and then the canter she's hopping almost with the back end. like something it locked up and not allowing her to freely use her back/hips/stifles/hocks. i'd guess that's more of a stifle issue but it's so hard to say because the videos kind of made me queezy (sp). haha
> 
> edit: she also isn't reaching with her front end at all it seems. perhaps it's in her back?


Thanks Crimsonsky....I agree. It's just really mysterious to me and everyone I have watching her every move now. I am just going to continue on with what I am doing and see how it turns out. It may just be her and bad backyard inbreeding...who knows. I am posting two more pictures and a video or two. We will go from here and hopefully update progress as it comes.



















Snickers lunging 1 - YouTube

Snickers lunging 2 - YouTube

Snickers lunging 3 - YouTube


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## Skyseternalangel

Have you had someone come take a look at her?

She seems so... stiff and stuck in her entire hind up all the way up.


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## Oldhorselady

Skyseternalangel said:


> Have you had someone come take a look at her?
> 
> She seems so... stiff and stuck in her entire hind up all the way up.


Not yet Skyseternalangel....Vets out here have to come from an hour and a half away.....and I already had one look at her twice. It is not something urgent...but the next time someone from our club has a vet out for something, I will have her looked at again. I will keep you posted.


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## crimsonsky

i wish you were closer as i'd give you my vet's name. i think he's fabulous.


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## Saddlebag

From what I can see she is narrow. I'm not seeing any soreness. Your farrier should be able to reduce the narrowness, to reduce her chances of striking the other hind leg.


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## AlexS

I'd bet a mortgage payment it's the stifles, looks to be both of them.


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## Oldhorselady

Saddlebag said:


> From what I can see she is narrow. I'm not seeing any soreness. Your farrier should be able to reduce the narrowness, to reduce her chances of striking the other hind leg.


Thanks Saddlebag...I will mention it to my farrier next Friday.


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## Oldhorselady

AlexS said:


> I'd bet a mortgage payment it's the stifles, looks to be both of them.


Are you thinking around the lines of locking stiflles?...or something else? It is not consistent and she seems to have improved from a few months ago since being worked. I don't ever hear any clicking.


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## wyominggrandma

Hmmm , the first thing that came to mind when watching her is if she was a dog I would suspect Hip Dysplasia.............. Bunny hopping, not extending in the rear, keeping weight on the front end. Perfect description of HD... in a dog.
Wonder if horses can have the same type of issues: femoral head not fitting in the socket of the hip joint, sublexation of the femoral head, shallow hip socket?


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## Oldhorselady

wyominggrandma said:


> Hmmm , the first thing that came to mind when watching her is if she was a dog I would suspect Hip Dysplasia.............. Bunny hopping, not extending in the rear, keeping weight on the front end. Perfect description of HD... in a dog.
> Wonder if horses can have the same type of issues: femoral head not fitting in the socket of the hip joint, sublexation of the femoral head, shallow hip socket?


That is funny because I actually thought of that same scenario! Like I said, I will continue to work her the same way I have been and review her progress again end of summer. I think it has improved since I got her and started working her. She used to clip her front heels really bad and make them bleed at the beginning of this and she had those noodle leg moments more frequently then. She no longer clips her front heels ever and isn't having quite as many noodle moments. Thanks for the input though!


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## SoldOnGaited

Hi, I just found this post and had to reply...have you found out anything else? I have a 16 year old Missouri Fox Trotter (who looks very similar to yours I almost fell out of my seat lol) who also has been having some hind quarter issues for a few years as I understand it. We only just bought her about 3 weeks ago. We've had a chiropractor come out who gave her an adjustment and that seemed to help for a bit. She has good days where you don't see it at all and then days where she looks so stiff. Very similar to some of your shots. We're still at a loss as to what it truly is to "fix" it, but have noticed that she often "works it out". Still would love to know what the cause is. 

Thanks!


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## Oldhorselady

SoldOnGaited said:


> Hi, I just found this post and had to reply...have you found out anything else? I have a 16 year old Missouri Fox Trotter (who looks very similar to yours I almost fell out of my seat lol) who also has been having some hind quarter issues for a few years as I understand it. We only just bought her about 3 weeks ago. We've had a chiropractor come out who gave her an adjustment and that seemed to help for a bit. She has good days where you don't see it at all and then days where she looks so stiff. Very similar to some of your shots. We're still at a loss as to what it truly is to "fix" it, but have noticed that she often "works it out". Still would love to know what the cause is.
> 
> Thanks!


Thanks SoldOnGaited! Very interesting. We will have to compare notes through this journey. I am at a loss really. But in the same sense...it doesn't seem detrimental. She was cantering and galloping full speed in our arena the other day with another horse and she was powerful and just fine. No 'noodle legs'. Yesterday she was just meandering around at a trot/canter and I saw it a bit.....not bad though. She just seemed to be in 'lazy' mode. Her hind end to me seems very flexible. Her personality is also quite goofy and der der der......so maybe it is just her always being loose because she is soooooo relaxed. You can do anything with her....even cross her front and hind legs like she is on a balance beam and she will hold them there.....that was why I first expected 'wobblers' or something. But she passes all of the other tests. It doesn't seem that she doesn't know where her legs are, but more like she is just saying 'Ok, I will go along with this game and do what you want'. I'm riding her on short rides...she just turned three.....and I am 180lbs....and she does just fine. She never resists or falls. She yields her hindquarters very nicely and doesn't hesitate. She is just a happy little horse. She is a spotted draft cross so the vet had originally said that she is still growing into her hind legs and learning how to use them. Nobody at my boarding facility can put their finger on what is going on either. I will definately keep this thread updated.


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## SoldOnGaited

After AlexS mentioned the stifles, I found this article that explains things pretty well. I'm going to see if my boarder can get the vet out and have him check her out. We've been led to believe she had her hips rotated in opposing directions so have been treating her for that. The previous owner didn't tell us how severe the hip/stifle/whatever it is issue was of course. How kind of her. Looks like it would be a good idea to check out the whole leg. According to several things I've read, stifle issues seem to be common with gaited horses though hopefully something we can work on with her to ease the stiffness. Sky is the sweetest, gentlest horse and we fell in love with her the moment we saw her. 

The chiro told us to do some exercises backing her up a bit. She clearly has a tough time moving her left hind leg. And she moves back in a circle or otherwise not in a straight line. Her body is straight but the movement isn't. Does that make sense? lol. Would that be hip or stifle or all of the above?


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## SoldOnGaited

Whoops, forgot to add the link for the article lol.

http://www.equinepi.com/pdfs/stiflearticle.pdf


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## Oldhorselady

SoldOnGaited said:


> Whoops, forgot to add the link for the article lol.
> 
> http://www.equinepi.com/pdfs/stiflearticle.pdf


 
SoldOnGaited...funny how the horse in your avatar looks like my Snickers!

I've seen another horse with a locking stifle....doesn't look like that at all. She never walks and has anything lock up or drag. Not saying that it still couldn't be in her stifle though.....

Yesterday she was running around in the arena and it almost look like locking fetlocks!!!.....if there were such a thing. Like when she was slowing down her fetlocks wouldn't bend and caused her to trip. But the thing causing it could actually be anywhere all the way up to the hip. It's not consistent, I don't always see it....and it has improved....so, it is a mystery.


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## Super Nova

AlexS said:


> I'd bet a mortgage payment it's the stifles, looks to be both of them.


My bet was going to be on stifles then hocks.

Stifles don't have to lock for there to be a problem.......my girl went under a fence and hurt her stifle....we figure she tore or pulled something.

When looking for lameness they always say start at the foot and work your way up.

Super Nova


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## Oldhorselady

Thanks for all of the replies everyone. I really appreciate them all! Here is a picture of odd wear under her left hind hoof. She has wear on the other hind too, just not quite as bad. Her front hooves do not have wear. She is having them trimmed this Friday after seven weeks. Tell me what you think of the wear pattern and if it points to anything in particular. I am also going to post a video of her lunging today in a smaller round pen...hopefully you can see something else.










Video:
Snickers lunging again - YouTube


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## Oldhorselady

I found this post while looking up hind hoof wear....this person's story sounds like mine......

Hind hoof landing Q - Questions and discussions for the ESI Q and A Forum - ESI Q and A Forum - ESI Q and A Forums


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## flytobecat

I would say stifles too. Sometimes they can pop in and out if the joint is really loose. Certain exercises will decrease that.
I second having the chiro or an equine acupressurist look at her.


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## Oldhorselady

flytobecat said:


> I would say stifles too. Sometimes they can pop in and out if the joint is really loose. Certain exercises will decrease that.
> I second having the chiro or an equine acupressurist look at her.


Thanks. I will start looking into chiro. Any exercises you can share with me? Or would chiro do that?


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## SoldOnGaited

Oldhorselady said:


> SoldOnGaited...funny how the horse in your avatar looks like my Snickers!
> 
> I've seen another horse with a locking stifle....doesn't look like that at all. She never walks and has anything lock up or drag. Not saying that it still couldn't be in her stifle though.....
> 
> Yesterday she was running around in the arena and it almost look like locking fetlocks!!!.....if there were such a thing. Like when she was slowing down her fetlocks wouldn't bend and caused her to trip. But the thing causing it could actually be anywhere all the way up to the hip. It's not consistent, I don't always see it....and it has improved....so, it is a mystery.


Everytime I see your horse's name, I get HUNGRY! lol. I agree, it is funny how similar they look. Looks like your girl is much beefier than mine. Beautiful! 

I'm not familiar enough with stifle issues to say one way or another, just a different route to research. My girl hasn't been exercised much so could very likely be needing to build up some good muscle. She's about 3 weeks from foaling, so will be a bit before I can get her working.

Mystery indeed. :think:


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## flytobecat

My chiro told me to walk my horse over low poles and cavelities to strengthen the stifle. She said walking makes the horse use it's back end more. When the horse is trotting it can pull with the front. She also told me to back her up hills. 
She gave me some general stretches to do to like the carrot, tail, and range of motion stretches. I call it horse yoga.
I was trying to find some youtubes with the stretches, but couldn't find anything that illustrated exactly what she told me to do.


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## Skyseternalangel

SoldOnGaited said:


> Mystery indeed. :think:


Hopefully one that is solvable and ends well!! No cliffhangers, please :lol:


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## Oldhorselady

flytobecat said:


> My chiro told me to walk my horse over low poles and cavelities to strengthen the stifle. She said walking makes the horse use it's back end more. When the horse is trotting it can pull with the front. She also told me to back her up hills.
> She gave me some general stretches to do to like the carrot, tail, and range of motion stretches. I call it horse yoga.
> I was trying to find some youtubes with the stretches, but couldn't find anything that illustrated exactly what she told me to do.


I think I am in good shape as far as stretching and strengthening exercises. I have having her go over ground poles, yielding hindquarters, sidepassing, serpentines, backing, small hills along with the multiple stretches laterally, through the knees, lifting the front legs, crossing the legs etc. I also use side reins for about five minutes at the trot when I lunge her. All of the exercises are not done too long since she is a baby and I don't want to overdo it. Hopefully it's a good start to helping the issue as much as I possibly can. Thanks for all of your replies and suggestions.


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## Oldhorselady

Bump!....

Ok, I am bumping up this thread....I am treating Snickers for neck threadworms. In reading about this, it states that the parasite actually lives in the nuchal ligament causing contraction. In one case it is mentioned that a horse put down for suspected 'wobblers' had a necropsy showing ntw infestation of the nuchal ligament.

I just thought this was interesting because I have had this mystery noodle leg thing with her. And, the home I got her from did not regularly worm, if at all and she has had this leathery, itchy midline since I got her with nothing helping as of yet.


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## Oldhorselady

Sorry...wanted to post a thread I was reading on this...

Attack on the Neck Threadworms


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## Elana

Reading through all this, I would like to know if you have tried a flexion test. 

You need two people and your round pen. One person is at the horse's head and the other person picks up the offending hind leg and flexes it to the max by picking up the hind foot and raising the hoof under the horse as far as you can.. keeply flexing the joints of the hind leg.. and holding it there for 30 seconds (or as long as she allows you to). 

Put the leg down and IMMEDIATELY trot the horse off. See if she trots unsound. You might want to rake out the round pen first so the footing is even as uneven footing can louse this up. If she will trot on lead, it is even better to do this and trot her out on pavement. 

If you have pavement, and she will trot next to someone leading her, trot her out first.. straight away and back. See if she is lame. Then do the flexion test and rinse, repeat. 

Honestly, the videos and the color of the horse make it VERY difficult for me to see any outward unsoundness. The wear of the hoof indicates a stifle injury to me (medial collateral ligament damage wears exactly like this). However, it may not be an injury.. and my be mechanical and the way she moves. UNEVEN hind hoof wear like this says there is a problem.. and the type of wear I have seen in the distant past on a horse that fell and tore his medial collateral ligament. His was a bad tear and the horse, at 26, could no longer lay down (because he could not get up). 

When your horse walks, does he rotate that hind foot much more than the other hind foot as he walks over it? Look at the FOOT and not at the leg above it. Just the feet.. and again, do this on a hard surface so you can see not only the foot rotate (if it is) but examine the TRACKS to see if there is more rotatation (seen as a scrape in the surface of hard ground) more with one hind foot than the other. A hard dirt covered road that is not all pot holed would work for this. 

Stifle exercises.. trotting up hills.. Lots and Lots of trotting up hills.. 
If the stifle ligament is torn, there is not much of an answer that is affordable I am afraid.


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## Oldhorselady

Thanks Elana for the advice! The vet did a bunch of tests at her pre-purchase exam last fall....but I don't think we flexed the legs for 30 seconds before trotting.....can't remember. I will get a friend and try it. It really is mysterious because it is not consistent. She walks fine.....every so often she seems to lazily scrap a hoof on the ground, but not too often and she is not wearing her hooves square. It seems to be most noticable when she is downward transitioning. She seemed a little wobbly going down a hill, but has improved significantly....seems much more balanced and sure footed. Maybe I can get another set of pics since her last trim was 5/25 and see if she is still wearing like that. I have a cast on my right hand making things quite difficult for me right now. Maybe video the flexion testing if I can. Thanks again so much!


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## Saddlebag

From the pics, she is base narrow and toed out. She seems to twist her left hind to break over her toe. A good farrier may be able to correct some of this. By farrier I mean a well schooled farrier who also served a lengthy apprenticeship, not a trimmer who took a 3 day course.


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## Oldhorselady

I only did some new pics of her feet today. They don't seem to be wearing as before. Last trim was May 25th. Tomorrow I plan on doing the flexion test and trying to get pics or video of her legs again.

This picture is rt front....shadow on left is deceiving...both sides actually have more of the same length wall growth.









rt hind









lt front









lt hind....I know the frog is shedding...but can't trim with my hand at the moment.









fronts









hinds


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## Elana

This horse drags/scuffs the inside of both hind feet. This is not unusual. It is due to conformation and way of travel. Both hinds in this set of photos do not show anything out of the ordinary other than wear on the inside of the hoof. Both hinds are wearing in a similar manner. 

If ONE hind was wearing like this, it would indicate a problem. I watched the videos.. all of them.. and they were VERY hard to use to see any outward lameness due to camera shake and blur. Additionally, the round pen/arena footing is soft and unless the horse is head bobbing lame, misteps are not unusual.. especially in a horse in training. Lameness needs to be diagnosed by trotting out on a hard, even surface (like an asphalt driveway). Flexion tests and immediately trotting out on asphalt will typically show as much lameness as trotting in a circle. Unless a horse is seriously lame (almost 3 legged) lameness is diagnosed trotting on hard surfaces, not being ridden or worked on a soft surface. 

Does this horse move great behind? No. Is it lameness? IMO and from what I could see this horse moves a bit stiff behind because that is the way this horse moves. Just this horse's mechanical way of going.

I looked at the front feet in this series of photos. The horse does not break over directly on the end of toe in front. Common.. as a lot of foals are not trimmed and even shod (if really toed out) so they have every opportunity to grow straight in front. Not a source of lameness in most horses being ridden for pleasure, trail and most work short of racing. 

I would do the flexion test and see if there is outward, head bobbing lameness OR bad stumbling on the immediate trot out. This trot out needs to happen the instant the hoof comes back to the ground (so you probably will need to teach the horse to trot out while being led.. and trot out from a stand still). If there is not issue after this test, and the test for EPM is negative, go on and USE the horse. If this is a real lameness, not just this horse's way of going, the lameness will manifest and give you something to diagnose. Some stumbling in any horse that moves loike this one does in not uncommon. 

If I owned this horse, I would work him trotting up hills, do a lot of ground driving and lay a really good foundation on him training wise. If he tends to not know where his hind feet are (lots of horses do not know) work him on turns on the forehand, trotting over poles on the ground.. and even caveletti that are off the ground. This will help the horse to learn to lengthen the top line and shorten the underline to support the back and loin. The trotting over poles and up hills will help to strengthen the support of the stifles if there is a problem there. 

I think this particular horse is a bit clunky in the way he goes. That is fine. Most horses are not perfect movers anyway. 

You can go on and spend a fortune on vet visits and so forth.. but I think all you are doing is spending money on something that either has not manifested as a diagnosable problem or is simply the way this horse moves naturally. 

Go use the horse and quit worrying is my advice based on what I have seen here.


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## Oldhorselady

Thanks Elana. I will own her for a year this fall now. I can say her movement has seemed to improve as far as I don't see the issue as frequently or maybe just not as pronounced maybe. Kind of like she found how to either balance herself or deal with the way she is built. I am told she is a spotted draft/paint cross. But she is only 14hh...so who knows what she really is. I am not lookng to have a show quality horse. She is perfect to me and an excellent temperment....always willing, never spooky and always happy. Myself or anyone else for that matter have ever seen her lame during all of this. I have had experienced horse people, trainers and the vet all see her multiple times. I was told, like you say, to enjoy her for what she is unless something else manifests. You are right, she will have to be taught to trot from the stand still for the flexion test if she has to trot with the first step. I don't mean to keep harboring on her, it just mystifies me and I don't want to be harming her or her be in pain. Thanks again.


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## Oldhorselady

Today Snickers had a chiro adjustment. He said she looked good, a rib was a little off and adjusted and a vertebre at her withers. Hips and hocks looked good. She has had a couple massage sessions too already.

Today she also had a flexion test. After we trotted off she was limping on her right hind for a few strides. Never is lame other than that hind end coordination thing at times. She has developed lots of muscle and has improved since last year. It was mentioned that some stifle exercises may help, but it just also may be her.

Snickers a year ago.....

















Snickers today....


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## Oldhorselady

I am wondering about a loose stifle maybe?


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## barrelbeginner

Subbing.. She is gorgeous! I hope that you pinpoint this lovely girls troubles!


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## Oldhorselady

Ok, not sure to continue this thread or create a new one.....

Had a chiro out....Snickers had a rib poking out and a vertebre in her withers adjusted. Other than that, he said she looked great, good solid build. Did a flexion test and she did limp off in the trot on her rt hind a few steps. Questioning dx as a loose stifle? It doesn't lock, but she just seems uncoordinated with that leg at times. I will bring this up to the vet next time she is out....just wondering if anyone has experience with a loose stifle?


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## AndersonEquestrian

It really looks like she is off either in the hawk or up in the hindquarters area. Like she is stiff or achey.. Maybe have the chiropractor look at her..


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## AndersonEquestrian

Sorry.. disregard my previous post.


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## Oldhorselady

AndersonEquestrian said:


> Sorry.. disregard my previous post.


He said her hocks and hips looked good. She is never lame when I work her or ride her, she is just uncoordinated it seems.


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