# Educate me, please



## SwissMiss (Aug 1, 2014)

Let me start with saying that I am a newbie when it comes to trailers.

Yes, I looked casually around, but didn't really dig deep.
However, even with just glancing over info, there is an obvious discrepancy between Europe and the US in terms of vehicles to haul trailers.

For instance, in Europe "the" recommended vehicles to haul a 2 horse bp are SUVs (Kia Sorrento, Hyundai Santa Fe, or even Subaru Forrester)...


However, if I mention the idea of hauling with my Santa Fe here in the US I get labeled as suicidal:confused_color:

Looking at trailer weights, even a Brenderup, which is recommended for smaller vehicles, weighs 2000 lbs, similar to some aluminum trailers made in the US.

So there must be more to it than just weight, right?

Please, anybody up to some tutoring about trailers???

Thanks


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Are you ever opening a huge can of worms....
There are so many "theories", words of wisdom, personal opinion and some with real information.
I found this below which is a easy glossed over article that touches on basics of truck to trailer hauling. There are further links associated with the article.
_Choose the Vehicle to Haul Your Horse Trailer

_Without getting crazy about facts and figures...some things I learned quickly when towing..
The length of the tow vehicles wheelbase is critical to the ride and safe handling of the loaded horse trailer.
A brake controller is not a option but a mandatory piece of equipment for safe stopping of that trailer, loaded or empty.
A frame hitch and ball rated for the weight and then some...not all are created equal meaning they can fail.
Go slow and make sure you go even slower when learning to drive truck & trailer.
Many today think "bigger is better" which is not necessarily true. You though must have a vehicle that is manufactured to do the job safely...which means you don't tow a trailer with a matchbox sized car/truck.
It isn't the going forward, it* IS *the stopping of the forward momentum and controlling that pushing force behind you that you need to have the adequate vehicle in size and braking power to keep you safe, your animals safe and all those who share the road safe.
Expect the unexpected...it will happen so prepare for the worst and pray for the best.

With all that...
I honestly don't know why the large discrepancy between the countries in what is allowed and what is not, or not looked favorably at.
Years ago here in the USA we did tow with station wagons, lighter weight trucks, sedans. 
Cars and trucks then though were also heavier made. 
The cars were also larger in size. 
A full-size car then was full-sized not what today is considered "full-size". 
Cars were also made with full frames not unibody construction and today's alloys and lighter weight and flexing components...all that weight you save you have lost something in job ability and stability.
I think standards and laws are different between countries. True why many cars used in foreign nations will _*not*_ be allowed in the USA as they don't meet the rigorous testing standards our government demands...when those testing standards are met the cars are allowed. 

I was taught your tow vehicle needs a wheelbase equal to but preferably longer than the trailer length so control and ride is optimum for human and beast. 
_Today many don't tow a simple 2 horse trailer but behemoth trailers with dressing room, tack room and horse compartments = bigger tow vehicles._
You need more braking ability than just what the truck can handle in case those trailer brakes fail.
You need to always be on guard for the other person sharing the road. People do stupid things when they see a truck and trailer...speed up, cut them off, slam on their brakes in front and more.....
The cargo you haul is not dead weight but moving and breathing. If the horse shifts his weight in the trailer suddenly you better have enough "truck" to handle not changing lanes to a head-on accident or side-swiping the person next to you...

Those are just some things that come to my mind.
I really don't know why what is acceptable overseas is, nor why here many are over-kill in so much bigger is necessary. 
Like anything else you need a vehicle that is made to handle the workload you expect it to do successfully. To small and a better chance of issue. To large,...well rather to large than not large enough in my mind.

Hang in there...the "big-guns" will be along shortly with statistics, their facts and figures and their opinions about many of the things you raised questions about.
I am just someone who has worked the industry, has my own horses and multiple trailers and _never_ had a problem because I do/did it right in all my years of "horses" and transporting them.
Personally, the idea of using one of the vehicles you mentioned and towing anything more than a tag along trailer with some garbage pails on it to the landfill scares the crud out of me. I would either stay home or walk than let my horse or myself be carted down the road in that match-up of vehicle and trailer....don't care what brand trailer!
_When the trailer, the horse and cargo weigh more or darn close to the tow vehicle and are as large or bigger than the tow vehicle... *I'm staying home!*_

_jmo..._


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## loveduffy (Dec 22, 2011)

horselovingguy is right it comes down to wight what will your vehicle stop. Once you are going stop could be a problem hope this helps


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

Long story short...in Europe, identical vehicles sold here in North America are rated to tow more - sometimes *drastically* more.

It comes down to these reasons why:

1/ Better drivers

2/ FAR more and in depth driver education (Which results in #1 above)

3/ Less litigious society. If someone has an accident that's very clearly their fault they don't try to blame it on the automaker/RV manufactuer/etc and sue them.

4/ Generally lower speed limits and much higher police enforcement of them....AKA, no stories of people pulling their trailers at 80-90 MPH like we hear about here sometimes.

5/ Trailers are built MUCH lighter than they are here, yes, including horse trailers.

6/ The North American mentality (that has grown over the last few decades) that you require a 1-Ton dually to pull anything larger than a popup tent trailer. That's not the case in reality, but the auto manufacturers have brainwashed a lot of people into thinking that they need a $70K diesel truck to pull their 2 horse trailer, or a 20' camper when in reality a much smaller vehicle would do given adequate training, better driving skills, and more reasonable speeds....all 3 of which are big issues in North America vs Europe.

I've personally pulled a 19-ish foot travel trailer (and a vintage 70's one at that which weighed in the range of 3000 pounds) with a Santa Fe (helping a relative set it up as that was their only vehicle suited to towing) and it handled it amazingly well with the right hitch, a good brake controller, and good driving. I'll see if I can dig up some pics.\



horselovinguy said:


> _When the trailer, the horse and cargo weigh more or darn close to the tow vehicle and are as large or bigger than the tow vehicle... *I'm staying home!*_


_*

By that logic there wouldn't be any trailers beyond 2 horse models are any 3-4 horse or larger exceeds the length and (and not long thereafter beyond 4-horse) the weight of almost any big pickup truck. Same goes for RV's - most RV's on the road today exceed the weight of the tow vehicles, sometimes twice or three times over in the case of very large models. It's quite normal.



loveduffy said:



horselovingguy is right it comes down to wight what will your vehicle stop. Once you are going stop could be a problem hope this helps

Click to expand...

Stopping the trailer is the job of the trailer brakes, not the tow vehicle. When the trailer brakes are setup correctly (which is something most are not because people don't know how to do it correctly) the trailer brakes stop the weight of the trailer on their own, and the tow vehicle should only be stopping it's own weight still. A properly setup tow vehicle/trailer combination with properly functioning brakes should stop in not much more distance as an unladen vehicle.*_


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

from PrivatePilot... By that logic there wouldn't be any trailers beyond 2 horse models are any 3-4 horse or larger exceeds the length and (and not long thereafter beyond 4-horse) the weight of almost any big pickup truck. Same goes for RV's - most RV's on the road today exceed the weight of the tow vehicles sometimes twice or three times over. It's quite normal.

Correct PP, however those behemoth trailers you now refer to could not be pulled by any of the vehicles the OP mentioned as she needs information on bumper pulls with those vehicles and you must be referring to goosenecks and 5th wheel hitched trailers.
The principle of what you mean though I fully get, I do.


_*You're right about skills levels of drivers.*_
You're a professional driver and I would expect you to have far superior skills and the knowledge of handling a vehicle safely under adverse conditions.. but not all are CDL holding drivers out there and driving your put-put around town is way different than behind the wheel of some of the rigs out their...
American drivers, at least some I've seen, have minimal skills in handling a vehicle, any vehicle. 
They "qualify" to get a license or keep their license by the skin-of-their-teeth, not because they are good competent drivers. Someone who is driving an hour or so two days a week with supervision {group driving lessons} but now meets "standards" to take a competency test.....recipe for problems with many of them.
Forget those driving those huge RV's..... _they should have to have a CDL, with proper endorsements and training to handle and safely drive them imo. Those rigs are as big as tractor-trailers the driver behind the wheel should have better training to .
_ I also believe those purchasing from a dealer a trailer/RV should be given hands-on instruction to safely be on the road. 
And dealers should also have some scruples and not just want to make "the sale" of the biggest trailer but what is the safest sized trailer for the vehicle being used to pull that trailer...that would make it a much sweeter place to drive for all.

I've watched {as I bet you have} to many with poor car driving skills behind the wheel.... Because it is a pleasure vehicle doesn't exempt those from having the knowledge and ability to drive the things....dangerous many of them are on the road to follow, be in front of, forget try to pass them safely.
_Yup, again you're right about trailer brakes stopping a trailer. _You do it right and so do I but many don't. They rely only on their truck brakes to stop that trailer...stupid? _*You bet!! *_
As for sizes and weights of many of those behemoth trailers and RV's today..
Just like cars today they are made lighter and with more flex and flimsy. 
Materials used to make that old trailer you towed with your driving skills are not made to those standards anymore. New, improved and lighter is the way to go so those beefed up 1 tons trucks can and do pull them....
Bet that old small trailer outweighed some of those monsters we commonly see going down the road doing 80+...


Like I said to the OP...opening a can of worms here and many opinions, facts and fiction..
The secret is wading through it all and doing what is best for him/her in their particular situation.
In the end, the one you live with is yourself if something happens because of you or your equipment.

_Good luck OP....a lot of decisions, comments and info headed your way. _:wave:


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

SwissMiss said:


> even a Brenderup, which is recommended for smaller vehicles, weighs 2000 lbs, similar to some aluminum trailers made in the US.


The Brenderup is designed to be pulled by smaller vehicles than we typically use here. Just three examples: 


the weight of horses is placed right over the axles to reduce weight on the tongue and thus the back end of the tow vehicle.
the shape has been refined in a wind tunnel to reduce aerodynamic drag, requiring less engine power at highway speeds.
the brakes are actuated by the deceleration of the tow vehicle, which removes the need for the tow vehicle to have a brake controller and all its necessary wiring.
I pulled an aluminum two-horse Featherlite half way across the US in 2012. The trailer had a tack room and weighed closer to 3,000 lbs than 2000. I pulled it with a 2002 Toyota Tundra pickup with a 4.6l V-8, and would not have wanted a smaller tow vehicle, especially in the cross-winds of North Dakota.


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## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

horselovinguy said:


> Are you ever opening a huge can of worms....
> There are so many "theories", words of wisdom, personal opinion and some with real information.


You are soooo correct. It gets even more confusing when you start talking to truck people that are not horse people. They will try telling you a year 2000 Chevy S10 would be a good tow vehicle for your 3 horse steel trailer. :icon_rolleyes:

I've found that there is a huge divide between horse people and truck people. It's hard to figure out who to listen to. I gave up and decided to "over truck" my trailer. I would rather have too much than not enough. And like the others said, pulling it is not the ticket. Getting it to stop safely is.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Plain and simple, do NOT under truck yourself to pull live weight; especially live weight that you love and is your best bud.

1. Bigger truck equals bigger braking system

2. Bigger truck should also equal a heavy duty radiator for cooling the motor, so it doesn't overheat and blow up.

3. If you buy a truck with an automatic transmission, make sure it has a transmission cooler or somewhere on the list of options, a "trailer towing package" is mentioned.

Whomever told you it is suicidal to buy too small a truck to pull even a two horse trailer, knew what they were talking about.

You might get away with it on short, flat hauls but, try hauling long distance, up serious hills and/or in the mountains and see how long it is before those truck brakes AND trailer brakes burn out. 

Even worse would be a car ramming on the brakes in front of you, at 55 MPH and you don't have enough brakes to stop your truck/trailer from hitting them. Next thing ya know, here comes a lawsuit from the driver of the car and any passengers.

If you don't have the funds to buy a truck that will meet the GVWR for hauling a trailer and a couple horses, keep saving. It isn't worth the risk, IMHO:faceshot:


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

walkinthewalk said:


> Whomever told you it is suicidal to buy too small a truck to pull even a two horse trailer, knew what they were talking about.


There's a big difference between towing with a smaller vehicle *within it's tow ratings* and just making a blanket statement that smaller tow vehicles are unsuitable just because they're not a big truck.

I agree that with live weight (AKA horses) you should have a margin under the max tow rating to allow for a safety buffer, but I'm also not in the (As I mentioned earlier) camp that you MUST have a 3/4 ton, 1 Ton, or 1-Ton dually to pull a two horse trailer. There are lots of perfectly capable half tons and SUV's that will safely haul a 2 horse bumper pull.

I'm not suggesting towing grossly in excess of a vehicles ratings, but I'm firmly in the camp of NOT making blanket statements that everyone needs to rush out and buy a 80K dually diesel to pull their 2 horse trailer to a handful of horse shows every summer either.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

PrivatePilot said:


> There's a big difference between towing with a smaller vehicle *within it's tow ratings* and just making a blanket statement that smaller tow vehicles are unsuitable just because they're not a big truck.
> 
> I agree that with live weight (AKA horses) you should have a margin under the max tow rating to allow for a safety buffer, but I'm also not in the (As I mentioned earlier) camp that you MUST have a 3/4 ton, 1 Ton, or 1-Ton dually to pull a two horse trailer. There are lots of perfectly capable half tons and SUV's that will safely haul a 2 horse bumper pull.
> 
> I'm not suggesting towing grossly in excess of a vehicles ratings, but I'm firmly in the camp of NOT making blanket statements that everyone needs to rush out and buy a 80K dually diesel to pull their 2 horse trailer to a handful of horse shows every summer either.


The rest of the world can do what they want but, the question was asked and those of us that have pulled our horses in every kind of terrain and weather gave our opinions.

I don't have a 80K truck. I have have a heavy 3/4 ton, 1978 GMC 4WD drive that I bought in 1981. It's been beefed up to a one ton and I helped do the work. There isn't a spot of rust on my truck and it still runs better than a lot of trucks on the road, because I take care of it. I've had plenty of offers to buy it from the Good Ole Boys with horses, who are smart enough to recognize its value.

Mr. WTW's F-350 Lariat is a 1988 model that he bought in the early 90's. I think his 460 will out pull my 454 but I won't own up to that. It also has A/C, so I use it these days. 

They have been paid off forever and with some good and conscientious maintenance, do their jobs as well today as any 80K truck. Probably better, since they don't have all that electronic B.S. that goes bad and costs both arms and your first born to get fixed. 

I don't know what is wrong with today's world that everyone thinks they need an 80K truck to pull a trailer. I guess that is how everyone has been brainwashed and if one can't afford an 80K truck (who can), they step backward and buy a lesser truck, instead of thinking things thru and looking for a well maintained, used, work horse of a truck that will do the job and do it safely.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

walkinthewalk said:


> I don't have a 80K truck. I have have a heavy 3/4 ton, 1978 GMC 4WD drive that I bought in 1981.


And I tow my 4 horse head to head with a '97...but that's not the point. I need a dually to pull my trailer safely as the pin weight would overwhelm even a SRW 1-Ton, but not everyone needs such a truck...yet the most common answer to the "is my tow vehicle big enough for such-and-such trailer" almost always defaults to "buy a huge truck, you can never go too big", followed closely by recommending something very late model and often very expensive as a result.

Often these same people HAVE a suitable tow vehicle already if you crunch the numbers, even allowing for a safety margin, but that's where people get lost - they don't want to crunch the numbers, they just default to "buy a huge truck and you'll be OK".



walkinthewalk said:


> It's been beefed up to a one ton


Just for the record, you can't "beef up" any truck to be more than what it was originally rated. Yes, you can add leafs in the suspension or change out axles to heavier rated ones, but in the end...what was stamped on door placard at the time of manufacture is what the vehicle will be *legally* rated for until the day it goes to the scrapyard. If you get pulled over and the door placard is rated as a half ton...the fact you might have "converted" it to a 1-ton rear end is irrelevant and you can be charged with being overweight if you are hauling a load that puts an axle over the placarded legal maximum. Additionally, adding more leafs or airbags to the suspension to add the ability to carry more weight doesn't change many of the other things that typically come with 2500 vs 1500, or 3500 vs 2500 series trucks - typically larger brakes and beefier suspension components, springs or leafs aside. Lots of people add airbags to half tons and then try to claim they can haul the same as a 3500 series (1-Ton) just because it sits level when they put 3500# in the back of it, but they're totally missing the rest of the story to what makes a 1-ton truck vs a half ton grocery getter that's band-aided to not have it's bumper on the ground when loaded.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

^^^my truck is rated as a heavy duty 3/4 ton. 

Yes, if you want to split hairs when my truck was "beefed up" one ton cargo van (leaf) springs went under it.

I hauled three horses in a stock trailer across this great country twice with that truck, without getting pulled over or breaking down.

I've owned the truck since 1981, have never been pulled over and the truck passed inspection twice yearly in the state I lived in, at that time. They didn't care what was original and what wasn't; as long as the truck passed the state's list of criteria (for the year of the vehicle) the truck was golden and got that pretty sticker to display in the left corner of the windshield

And yes, it was a point to mention the years of my tow vehicles. When somebody comments they don't have 80K to buy a truck, they need to know they don't need 80K for a safe/sturdy tow truck

In my area trucks abound. If one knows how to listen and watch, a good truck will come along in a short amount of time. We hear of at least two late model trucks a year that would be good pulling and work trucks, if we wanted a payment. 

It goes without saying, one should run the VIN number on a potential truck to learn if it's been wrecked or has had major repairs.

If I ever hit the More Money Than Brains lottery, yep, there will be a custom ordered 80K truck sitting in my driveway and my younger brother would jump for joy, since he would be the one to inherit it:loveshower:


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

I used to have an SUV rated to pull 7700lbs. It was a 1995 Range Rover. We had a 2 horse tall and wide steel trailer at the time. It was scary to pull! It was ok on the back roads.....and I lived in SE Texas, so it FLAT. On the interstate, being blow about by 18 wheelers? Not in my comfort zone. 

If all you ever haul is 15 miles to the vet or local shows and trails, you could get by.

Heck, one time we loaded up a good sized Paint and my Arabian in a 2 horse steel trailer, hooked to my friend's boyfriend's Chevy Luv pick up, put the 3 of us in the small seat, and drove to the other side of Houston to a show!! I have lived 45 MORE years to tell about it, lol! Don't try this at home......


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

I have seen a smallish BMW sedan pull a Brenderup down the freeway and a wee pickup pull a good sized 2horse. I would do neither. I drive a Subaru Forrester and would not consider pulling anything more than a small utility trailer with it.
Our tow vehicle is a mature dually. The trailer is a warmblood size 3-horse BP. I would not be uncomfortable with a properly equipped 3/4 ton. I just want enough truck to safely tow. I am extremely fond of getting us there and back in one piece.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

Dustbunny said:


> I drive a Subaru Forrester and would not consider pulling anything more than a small utility trailer with it.


Considering it has a tow rating of 1500 pounds, not pulling a horse trailer with it is a wise decision.

The Benz GL550 (to use one example of a SUV probably inline with what you mentioned) is rated to tow 7500 pounds, so it's entirely suitable for a 2 horse trailer.

Again, the assumptions are not always founded.


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## SwissMiss (Aug 1, 2014)

horselovinguy said:


> Are you ever opening a huge can of worms....



I apologize for the long silence, but I took the can of worms and went fishin' :hide:


PrivatePilot said:


> Long story short...in Europe, identical vehicles sold here in North America are rated to tow more - sometimes *drastically* more.
> 
> It comes down to these reasons why:
> 
> ...


I was already wondering if laws/driver education/ trailer weight plays a role in the difference I'm seeing. 

Actually I have first hand experience in the requirements to obtain a driver's license in Europe and the US. When I moved to the South, my Swiss licence was not accepted, because the standards of our driving tests were not high enough:icon_rolleyes: So had to do the (regular) written and driving test, the latter consisting of driving once around the block - yes, so much harder than my first test at home :rofl:

And yes, speed limits pulling a trailer are set at 50 mph, and since speed traps are abundant (and the fines really hefty and depending on the location even 2 mph gets you a ticket sent home), people normally abide to those...

In addition, the lack of really big vehicles in Europe (who can afford to buy gas/diesel for those if you pay up to $10/gal!) probably pushed to the development of trailers that are more suitable for smaller towing vehicles....

Just thinking out loud here...

I get the fact that you don't want to haul at or below the limits of your vehicle (there are ppl using a VW Golf for their 2 horse trailer), but within the range and knowing _how_ to drive (and brake!)???


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## boosteddreams (Sep 5, 2014)

PrivatePilot said:


> There's a big difference between towing with a smaller vehicle *within it's tow ratings* and just making a blanket statement that smaller tow vehicles are unsuitable just because they're not a big truck.
> 
> I agree that with live weight (AKA horses) you should have a margin under the max tow rating to allow for a safety buffer, but I'm also not in the (As I mentioned earlier) camp that you MUST have a 3/4 ton, 1 Ton, or 1-Ton dually to pull a two horse trailer. There are lots of perfectly capable half tons and SUV's that will safely haul a 2 horse bumper pull.
> 
> I'm not suggesting towing grossly in excess of a vehicles ratings, but I'm firmly in the camp of NOT making blanket statements that everyone needs to rush out and buy a 80K dually diesel to pull their 2 horse trailer to a handful of horse shows every summer either.


 It is so refreshing to read posts like this as opposed to the all-too-common "You need to get a huge truck!" advice. My husband and I have been discussing this recently as we want to buy a trailer in the next year or so, so this thread is super relevant.  We have a Toyota FJ Cruiser with a tow capacity of 5,000lbs. I have my eye on a trailer that weighs 2500lbs. and my horse weighs 1150lbs. or so; the tongue weight is well under the FJ's max as well. I want to be able to haul my boy out to local trailheads, along backroads (no freeway driving). 

I've read several peoples' concerns about towing with a short-wheelbase vehicle like the FJ, but there are just as many - if not more - who use their FJ for towing (though I haven't found many with horse trailers). It seems that our vehicle would be fine with a short, light, 2H BP for short distances at slow speeds given the above specs. For the record, we'd love to buy a truck, but don't really want to saddle ourselves to a payment just to haul locally a couple times a month so it's not yet in the picture.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Boost.... 
I thought that model was discontinued many years ago and was surprised to see it was outed in 2014.
If you are happy with what you drive and feel confident it will do the job required..
I also read_ {yup, went looking}_ that this vehicle has been designed primarily with off-road use in mind. A higher stance than many other vehicles and a V6 engine.
I actually saw not one review of how it handled towing but sure were lots of reviews about abilities of extreme terrain and off-roading.:shrug:
Do indeed make sure the vehicle you have is the one with the ability to tow that much added weight as I did see that on the specifications page that the vehicle must have certain features to accommodate that weight amount.

I'm_ not_ in the camp of needing "over-kill" in a tow vehicle either.
I _am_ in the camp though of having proper braking, proper hitch & ball, being very safely within guidlelines of that exact vehicle set by the manufacturer and a wheelbase that will assist you in road stability and handling not hinder your efforts of a safe ride.
The one thing that manufacturers near never tell you is if their "weight" profile allowances are ever made with LIVE cargo... 
Boats and campers are what they use for those "weight" ratings...not horses! 
_That does make a difference!_

Just be very careful and make sure you have all the added safety features of brake controller, a equalizer hitch, _especially since your vehicle has such a high stance to it_, and you don't overload yourself but have more than just "a little" wiggle room to max your vehicles specific capabilities out.

Enjoy your trailer search and be careful out there once you gain the road of trailering freedom.


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## boosteddreams (Sep 5, 2014)

Horselovinguy, thanks for the feedback. Yes, it is a phenomenal off-road vehicle (so we'd never have to worry about getting stuck with the trailer, haha). The weight-distributing hitch is something we've seen recommended and that would be added, along with a brake controller, to try to maximize the safety and effectiveness of that vehicle. I hope that those items, along with towing no more 80% of the maximum, will help me keep my boy safe. If anyone has real-world experience to the contrary, I would certainly like to hear it though!

I don't know if I'd want to take that much weight up into the mountains, but where we live that V6 should do nicely - it's pretty gutsy for its size and has a good amount of torque. The brakes are impressive for the vehicle, too. Ours is a six-speed manual so there's no concern of needing a tranny cooler.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

I live in NW IL and haul into WI frequently. Some of the hills we drive up and down have very steep grades. We upgraded our vehicle from a Ford Excursion V10 to a diesel - simply because all of the hill work for 2-3 hours at a time were hard with the V10 - the diesel has made a much smoother ride for us and our horses.

The decision should be based on where you will be hauling. You can certainly pull a loaded trailer with a smaller vehicle but where you can pull it can be the issue. And of course stopping as others have said here.

I have always been taught that the wheel base of the towing vehicle MUST be longer than that of vehicle you are towing.


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## mred (Jan 7, 2015)

I have a F-150 with the heavy tow package. My trucki used to pull a 16 ft trailer loaded with hay with no real problem. But I only pull for short distance and I allow twice the distance needed to stop. This trailer does not have brakes. 
I also own a 2 horse bumper pull. A really old steel trailer. I have used it for years on 40 miles trips hauling 1 horse with no problems. Again no brakes and very carefull. 
I just got a newer 1 horse bumper pull trailer. It has brakes. With no brake controler in the truck and one pony in the trailer, it was more than my truck needed for a 90 mile trip. I needed the brake controler badly and more power. The hills really slowed it down. The weight difference in these two trailers were a lot more than I expected. Will my 1/2 ton pull it? Yes. Will it stop it? Yes, with the trailer brakes. I would not recommend it with 2 1200 lb. horses, even on level ground. My next truck will be a good used F-250 with the tow package. All my trucks are 4 wheel drive. Also to note is that I only pull a hay trailer about 4 times a year of less than 10 miles per trip. And I only pull a horse trailer about 4 times a year.


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## Chasin Ponies (Dec 25, 2013)

Joel Reiter said:


> The Brenderup is designed to be pulled by smaller vehicles than we typically use here. Just three examples:
> 
> 
> the weight of horses is placed right over the axles to reduce weight on the tongue and thus the back end of the tow vehicle.
> ...


In my horse trailer shopping adventures, I found that Benderup has withdrawn from the US market so you'd have to find a used one at this point. And....out of curiosity I climbed into one at a horse show and was appalled by how flimsy and wobbly the fiberglass walls were.

I used to tow a normal Adams horse trailer, 2 horses and equipment with my Dodge Dakota V8 Quad cab and figured the weight to be upwards of 5500 lbs. (That's getting too close to the high end of towing capacity of 6000 lbs in the owners manual) I drove carefully, had the electric brake control adjusted just right but always felt like the truck did not have enough solid weight to be completely comfortable with it. Live animals moving around back there, hills, curves and rough roads can make it a very hairy experience with too small of a truck!


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## nothingsempty (Jun 29, 2015)

Just a thought, but could the discrepancy in tow vehicles in the US vs. Europe be in part due to the fact that 1/2 ton and larger size pickups are impractical and uncommon in many European countries?

Just to interject my experience... I regularly tow a 2 horse straight load steel trailer fully loaded with my 1997 F-150 4.6 L, 4x4, crew-cab, 8 ft bed with 130k miles that I got for $3500. I have a heavy duty hitch and a brake controller but no transmission cooler. I need a transmission cooler because it goes down to 1st gear, 15 mph at the top end of the big hill in the pass I go over every once in a while and I can just begin to smell hot gear oil. With all that equipment, it does just fine.


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