# Go BIG or go home?



## zandstrafarms (Feb 14, 2015)

A few more things to add:

Our neighbor across street owns 40 acres and has 17 horses on it, all pasture, no trails, tiny run down outdoor and indoor arenas and half the horses are hers. She buys hay weekly for them, unless we end up with excess hay we give her fir free (best hay around according to her). She charges 200 or 250 a month outdoor board. But she's also an equine vet tech.

Just around the block from us is the competition arena field where people from all over the state drive to compete in western disciplines. So that's also an added bonus. 

We Plan to board 5 additional horses each year until we get to 18, so won't be doing full scale for a few years.

It's just a huge decision taking on that large of a loan *goal has always been to stay debt free*, and would mean another move after just a year!


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## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

Would you only have pasture board? Or full care board also? You could charge much more than full care. Also another thing to think about- you could always charge a fee for people to use your trails and arena.


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## WildAtHeart (Jul 17, 2013)

Having large pastures and proper pasture management would set you apart! At least in my area. I plan to own a barn in about six years and I definately want large pastures. It sounds like you have a solid (and very exciting) plan. If I were you I would go for it


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## zandstrafarms (Feb 14, 2015)

We are trying to keep things pretty simple, but would charge extra for things like graining the horses (boarders would provide ut), putting blankets on or off, outing sunscreen or fly spray on, etc. We have talked to larger scale facilities 40 min or more away and none of them will do stall boarding any longer. They say the horses get too dangerous being cooped up for 12 hrs at night. The only place I've run into that did do stalks was the training facility I bought my stalls from. Those horses chewed them up pretty good, as high as 9 feet off the ground!

We have talked about paid trail riding, and seeing if any local equine groups would pay to use the arena for their meetings. I have no idea what to charge for either, although thought I heard rumor that a place an hour away charges 40 per horse on state parks? 

I would however like to converse with some of the larger scale facilities within a 40 min drive from here how they operate things. ..

I would also do obstacle course competitions, and maybe a charity ride or two. I'd really like to be able to be invested in our community and be able to give back. Maybe do something with the inner city kids or the older kids with little hope for adoption in our comnunity.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Can only raise a few questions for you to look into if you have not already...

INSURANCE....... commercial since it is a business venture... to protect you!

Boarding and rental horse coverage primarily...

Don't neglect yourself being covered well by insurance to protect all of your possessions from a lawsuit for something not terrible in nature but a good attorney representing them!

_I also would STOP giving away your hay unless your neighbor barters in return something you really need.
You bet she likes your hay...its free!!! And *she* makes $$ off of not having to purchase it...win-win for her.
That hay I thought was your income........
_


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## Kotori (Jun 18, 2012)

Well, rotational pasture would already put you above most other places. some might be attracted if you did a paddock paradise style pasture. something to make you stand out would probably be a cross-country set up of come kind, maybe even with a water jump. If there is any government land near you that have trails, that would be a plus, if you could talk with property owners and find a way for boarders to just walk to more trails. Other ways to set yourself apart could be miniature horse boarding, or some sort of horse exercising.

Horse exercising could appeal to people who want a level of fitness for their horse but can't maintain it themselves, or owners of easy keepers. I'd suggest ponying over lunging, but that'd require a horse good for ponying, and the customer's horse to be able to pony. If you do buy the property beside you, I'd suggest slow feeders for the stalls. I've even seen a nifty slow feeder for grain that might work. It'd take some modification, but runs coming off the stalls would definitely increase appeal, I would think. 

I'm not sure that hay made on premises would be a major plus, though I'm sure the boarders would appreciate the consistency and the fact they can give input. You'll also still have to consider the money put into making hay, though you'd also be getting manure for the fields, if the horses are stalled. If I were you, I'd consider the benefits of having the horses graze on the hay fields and just getting one less cutting.


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## zandstrafarms (Feb 14, 2015)

Our first pasture is partly done in paddock paradise style, just need some sand areas dug out and rough areas placed in there. We should be able to end up with at least 3 paradise styled pastures for about 10 horses. 

Also re. Hay:
When we first moved here we had planned to cut and sell the hay for income instead of boarding. We had the Worest time selling it! We did trade some of it toward a horse , but most of what we sold was off the field, and I guess people were not desperate for hay to get it that day. So we have all the equipment already and refining the process. And after having to supplement our own hay this winter thanks to our pole barn going in late we ended up buying some. Much of it pretty crappy. I still have a round bale that was so bad I use it in my dog kennel thanks to all the weeds.

We won't be giving hay away unless we have a storm coming and can't get it under cover. 

And yes we do need to llc our farm and talk to our insurance companies; )


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## 4hoofbeat (Jun 27, 2013)

i just wanted to say good luck, and i'm jealous. LOL 

If i had the money, that's what i'd be doing.


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## zandstrafarms (Feb 14, 2015)

The only reason we would consider is if it could be profitable. 

Visited a huntseat barn tonight and the lady was such a barn witch she got rid of ALL her boarders and only leases horses now and does lessons. She told me no money in boarding, only in lessons, lol! She admitted she hated her boarders.

She was pretty tight lipped and really not interested in talking to me. It's no wonder so many people on here have issues with barn owners! It was like talking to a lemon. 

I'm not a horse fanatic, just admire and respect them. I don't want a drama facility, just a bunch of people that share a mutual love and respect for these four legged friends!


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Honestly, there's no money in boarding. You'll spend about 90% of what you make on the care of the horses and on maitenance. Money right now is in training and lessons. Are you in an area where this type of facility is desired? Or are you in an area where this type of facility is not really in the financial ball park. 

That being said think of something that you're barn can offer. Lessons or training, hosting shows or leasing out arenas. All of these are the main 'bread winners'. 

Good luck!!


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

It is a gamble. Do you have income to pay for the loan if there is not a full barn ? 
If you are currently full at boarding 10 horses, and have a waiting list, it may off.
Drama = boarders. you cannot have one without the other. 
no such thing as drama free . You will have a lot of people coming and going.
You need to consider insurance cost. water cost. Cost of haying. Maintenance.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Congratulations on your new farm.
I have a few suggestions. Being in MI an indoor arena would be a huge draw! Your weather is much like mine here in WI so I can see some comparables.
Your pastures won't sustain horses all year & if you leave them on pasture all year & feed hay you'll soon have bad pastures. So you will need dry lots for part of the year.
The time you'll save by not cleaning stalls will be more than used up if you offer blanketing & fly spray application to horses on pasture. Think of catching all those horses to do that, sometimes more than once a day depending on weather. Then you'll get some boarders with a wardrobe they'll want you to switch all the time. 
The same goes for feeding grain to pasture horses. Add in supplements & being sure each horse gets the correct amount & you'll be pretty busy. Time is money.

Ice is another problem with a big safety issue. We sometimes get a lot of ice that sticks around. Where would you put the horses?

Will you have a sick or injured horse area? Trust me, treating anything is way harder if you're doing it outside especially in bad weather.
Farriers like working inside too, so do I. Will you be catching & holding horses for the vet/farrier?

If I were you I'd consider having some stalls available.

Growing your own hay can be a potential problem too. Not saying you'd be like this but most places I know that grow their own hay feed it regardless of quality. I grow my own hay too but if I don't like it for some reason I don't feed it. I hire a guy to make the hay & while he can make great hay Mother Nature isn't always on his side. In those cases I let him have the hay & buy something else. People will notice your hay quality.

I don't mean to be a downer but I've boarded at enough places & have had my own long enough to see the problems that 4 season climates can create.

If you offer full care amenities be sure you aren't killing yourself trying to do it all.


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## zandstrafarms (Feb 14, 2015)

You are very correct, It's always a gamble with any type of farming. We live in an ag community , you can go anywhere and hear old folks lamenting about farms being turning into housing communities, and how there's no money in farming. 

In this day and age the only way to stay alive is marketing. What sets you apart?

We ran 60 maple syrup taps this spring. All me. Took 1.5 hours each day to empty, boiled 60 gallons of sap every 10 days. A boil takes us 12 hrs of constant tending. Each boil produced 1.5 gallons of syrup, or maybe $75.

Fir about 24 hrs of work! BUT there are lots of people who earn a decent income off it. With the correct tools and marketing. 

We breed boxers for profit. There are people we know selling dogs for $600 and can't get rid of them. I sell ours for $1000 and sold out 1 month prior to birth. Waiting list for next litter has 20 names down. But I built a website, and show what sets us apart.

You are correct, there may be very little money in it. Or if done correctly it could be productive. 

Water is run off electric, not city. If we transition to solar power ($12,000) then no bills for electric or water.

As far as making a living off farming, we have to do something. Most likely combo of horses, dogs, farm stand and syrup.

BF has steady income to more than cover costs. He is one of the top autobody painters here in MI, but job is very hard on him so he will probably set up a private garage and paint on the side as well just for fun and money. 

It's not a light deciSion. I realize people advertise all over for private boarding Just because. That's not us. That's why I'm on here getting everyone's input.


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

I agree that boarding in large pastures is absolutely the ideal... but stall board can be done. I manage a very small facility with 10 horses on less than 3 acres. We don't have pasture turnout, but all of our stalls have attached runs and slow feeders which allow the horses to "graze" on hay all day. None of our horses have shown any signs associated with horses who are stressed out by being cooped up -- no cribbers, wood chewers, pacers, weavers, etc etc. Of course they are all ridden regularly in our lovely covered arena as well; I wouldn't advocate keeping horses in a boarding facility such as this without also giving them a "job".

Anyway, my point is that if you really wanted to, you could increase your profit by boarding a few more horses on a smaller space. It's all about the management style.


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## AQHSam (Nov 23, 2011)

As a person who boards, I saw some recommendations about leasing your arena or trails for additional income. As a boarder, that would be a huge downer for me. what if I come to the barn to spend time with my horse and these yahoo daybirds are hogging all the parking? Or not following rules and leaving trash, because hey, they just paid for a single day. Even worse, infectious disease. You will need to check coggins.

Just my two cents that could cause the steady income to disperse fast.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

As a horse owner that never boarded but have friends that have - I am not sure about the pasture paradise pastures. that could be a hard sell to people coming from a more traditional boarding facility. Pasture Paradise can look a lot like bare pasture strips to boarders with ideas of the rolling green grass of Kentucky.

As for the hay - as a hay producer I think you need to consider the years when you have to plow under your hay fields and are in need of purchasing hay for 18 horses. We have 4 horses and for the past two years have had to supplement our hay field with purchased hay due to insects and poor haying conditions. That put a serious dent in our pocket books. We do have a local barn that rents arena time for $5 per horse per hour. They have a sign up sheet with a limit of 4 riders per hour. And non-boarders are not allowed to ride in the arena unless supervised by the owner or someone of their staff. We like having this available to us in the spring and winter and it is additional income for her. Days and times are limited though due to her lesson schedule.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

From what I know, you're not going to run a profitable boarding business charging 250ish a month.  If you're willing to put more money in, or perhaps get a stellar trainer on board, you might come out in the positives down the road.


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## zandstrafarms (Feb 14, 2015)

I haven't heard about plowing under hay before, but I also only recently joined a hay forum "haytalk". I could be wrong, but I don't think cold season grass is plowed under. I have read about people using grain drills to resupply growth though. im not sure how old the hay fields are, gonna guess maybe 15 years.

When I say we do our own hay, I do all the hay in myself. I wouldn't let anyone rut up our nice fields. And I can monitor the drying better than someone who lives 20 minutes away.

I wouldn't want to be a boarder with a bunch of yahoos either, so it would be tightly controlled. 

I guess it looks like we will skip buying the neighbors property. Unless it forecloses! Lol (he's not a nice guy at ALL so I wouldn't feel bad.)

At the moment we will just do 5 horses, we have a girl who has 5 horses and has been wanting to board. I guess we can go from there and see how it works out.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

i would only plow under your field if it was full of weeds. then you would need to let it all die out, relevel, and reseed, which would be expensive. 
one person with 5 horses could be okay, but be sure to let the person understand,you own, they rent . this can turn into a problem.


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

As with any business research is critical. Its what often makes or breaks a business, and that's what this is, a business. 

The questions I would be asking is "Is there enough of a market for this", "what products do people want" and "how much are they willing to pay".

So many people get into a business, even if they have years of experience and think they know what people want, they often fail. Because they didn't conduct sufficient research. It doesn't matter what people you know say, or people on the forum you've got to work out what people where you are want. 

Go out to horse clubs or events, stock feed places, saddleries, and talk to people. Try to send out surveys. Ask the right questions, not like "Do you think more horse boarding places are needed" stuff like "What price would a full care pasture board facility x distance from town need to be to make you move there in your current situation?" or "what services and facilities do you think are essential?" etc. Try to work out what people actually will pay for and not what they ideally want. 

I'd be doing this before you commit to buying more land, it's all very well having the room for eight more horses, but if there isn't the demand then its pointless. Lack of similar boarding facilities doesn't necessarily mean there is a demand.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

ok the comment on horses being dangerous being stalled for 12 hours is bull. in az ther is NO pesture board in within an hout of where i live. my arabian mare is boarded in a 14x30 stall 24/7. she get out when i can come down and turn her out in the arena and there is normaly a line for the arena. the horses where i board are all fed alfalfa only and there are a cuple of tbs, qhs, paints, gaited horses and a cuple of muts (and my fiance's blm mustang). they are fine. my mare is not dangerous, my fiances horses are not dangerous (and they are high energy) and no one else has that issue.

you could have a nice 6 stall barn and charge $400+ and include turnout or charge extra for it. its always good to have that option incase a horse gets injured or sick. you could also have a barn wit a cuple of foaling stalls and offer pregnant mare boarding and charge quite a bit for that as well.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

to add most places out here if they have nice stalls, a large arena, a round pen, they feed (normally only alfalfa) and free trailer parking is normally in the $350 range. you could offer just pasture boarding for cheaper but have stall boarding and have stall boarding WITH turnout option. that could easily be
Stall board; $400
Stall with daily turnout; $450
pasture board: $150-$250

then you can charge for things like blanketing, or putting on fly masks.
as a person who has only boarded, a huge draw for me would be feeding supplements (and soaking pellets as we have a 30 year old tb who need soup, and my arab has a thing about choking on grass hay).

you could also offer a multiple horse discount, or if the person brings in their own feed they could get the cost of feed knocked off (and saves you feed). you could also add stall cleaning as optional but require boarders clean so many times a week and charge less (and save you time). you might also want a winter pasture that you are just chopping up to being a dry lot and have a shelter (built long as horses like to hog shelters).


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

*Plowing under hay fiekd*

In my area most hay fields are alfalfa or alfalfa mixed. You cannot plant alfalfa on top of alfalfa ( it will not take) as the field matures and the alfafla thins the field is plowed under and a new crop (usually corn or soy beans) is planted over the field for a year or two. Then the hay field is replanted with alfalfa and usually oats for the first crop you get oat hay -
'
It may be different in MN (I live in NW IL) most hay fields here are not straight grass as you usually only get 2 cuttings and it is harder to dry especially if there is clover in the field. Our 4 acre alfalfa field will get us about 800 bales per year.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Prospective boarder with 5 horses. Ironclad contract signed by both of you and dated. In the contract include late board fees of $5 (however much you decide) per horse per day. After 5 days the horses will go to the first auction. This is where you have to be tough. It's a business deal, not a friendship. If you cave in and allow it, it will cause you a lot of stress and money and it's just not worth it. The contract is signed before the first hoof sets down on your property. Here on HF we've heard many tales of woe because someone bo't into a sob story or was chronically late and then stopped paying. You can't think in terms that the horse is just on pasture, it's occupying land you worked hard to acquire.


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## zandstrafarms (Feb 14, 2015)

KigerQueen said:


> to add most places out here if they have nice stalls, a large arena, a round pen, they feed (normally only alfalfa) and free trailer parking is normally in the $350 range. you could offer just pasture boarding for cheaper but have stall boarding and have stall boarding WITH turnout option. that could easily be
> Stall board; $400
> Stall with daily turnout; $450
> pasture board: $150-$250
> ...


Noooooo to building a shelter long! We learned tge hard way, lol.

Did that last fall as we did have a horse who hogged. Built it 22ft long by 12 ft deep. Unfortunately, once our barn was in it created a huge wind tunnel that flipped it right over! Lasted 3 weeks. Our winds are right around 50 mph some days 

We ended up splitting it into two shelters, which also blew over 2 months later, lol and we finally sank posts into the ground deep and screwed shelter into them.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

OP stated she had a winter grass hay , which can be over seeded and sometimes with a crop that could be harvested in the summer. (not bermuda it will kill the other grass) 
Alfalfa cannot be reseeded this way, the 'older' plants kill the new seeds if they are different Variety. The same variety and it is okay. 
Alfalfa fields get disced under and planted in a different crop due to nematodes


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Saddlebag said:


> Prospective boarder with 5 horses. Ironclad contract signed by both of you and dated. In the contract include late board fees of $5 (however much you decide) per horse per day. After 5 days the horses will go to the first auction. This is where you have to be tough. It's a business deal, not a friendship. If you cave in and allow it, it will cause you a lot of stress and money and it's just not worth it. The contract is signed before the first hoof sets down on your property. Here on HF we've heard many tales of woe because someone bo't into a sob story or was chronically late and then stopped paying. You can't think in terms that the horse is just on pasture, it's occupying land you worked hard to acquire.


To auction for 5 days late on board?!
I could never do that, even if there were auctions around here. 
I did have one boarder who was chronically late & I told him the next time he was late I would consider that his 30 day notice to leave (I don't even require a notice to leave). After that I sometimes got an overnight express delivery check. When the guy lost his job I said I'd forgo board until he got back on his feet, that was maybe 5-6 years ago-LOL. The horse is still here. Why? Because I like him, he's funny & I'd miss him if he was gone.
I'm probably not the best business person.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

5 horses, late on board, is 5 x amount owing than one horse. Stipulating 5 days doesn't mean the BO has to send to auction, but if the boarder thinks it can happen, well and good.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Saddlebag said:


> 5 horses, late on board, is 5 x amount owing than one horse. Stipulating 5 days doesn't mean the BO has to send to auction, but if the boarder thinks it can happen, well and good.


Yes, the money owed adds up quick.
I had a boarder who showed up the first day & 'forgot' she needed to pay. I knew what was coming next & sure enough it was some money here & there. Then she said it was my fault for not doing an every two week payment schedule! I did kick her out even though she still owed $260. I knew the longer she stayed the more she would fall behind & I'd never see that money anyway.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

it cost more to auction the horse off then to just kick them out. also for only 5 days late? most places around here put a lock on the stall after a month. thats normally enough to get their head out of their bums. set up board "due dates" with individuals. some people dont get payed the first week of the month. so maybe after the first week put a lock on the stalls. pasture gate so the owner cant remove her horses. that is enough to scare them. THEN if there is no attempt to pay/ payment by a month after the lock up date auctioning/selling is a good idea.


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## zandstrafarms (Feb 14, 2015)

Renting horse space or renting a house out, both have potential problems. I'm harder than my fiance, and tend to think more about the details.

I know all about mixing business and friendship  fiance wanted to do a buddy of his a favor and let him build our barn. Hah! Guy was nice but something I didn't trust.

Sure enough, the guy lied about his barn building ability, built it 3 inches too wide which threw off all the other measurements. Materials had all been ordered to fit original dimensions.

3 months and $8500 in labor later I wrote a contract and made Erik have his buddy sign it. It stated that they agreed to finish the barn in one month.

They happily signed and took the paycheck, then never returned.

Needless to say, I won't stop saying "I told you so" to erik, lol! I had insisted on a contract from the start...

Regarding hay:

Ironically enough, people out my way HATE alfalfa! Won't even buy a grass mix containing more than 20% alfalfa in it. They also don't want fescue. I'm very glad I didn't have to do all the research on what to plant, my already established fields are just in need of regular fertilizer


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

Owning an arab I hate alfalfa too. The lst thing that nut needs is alfalfa. Its cheep here hence why everyone feeds it. Id rather feed bermuda but for a 150lb bale its $16 - $17. And timothy is around $27 a 150lb bale while alfalfa is $13 to $14 a bale. Caint wait to move and get round bales!


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

I'll tell you about a place where I kept my horses and loved it.
The place was about 300 acres (100 in pasture and 200 in wooded trails). There were several pastures, but for boarders there was one for geldings and one for mares. The place had a 19 stall barn, 2 tack rooms, a public bathroom, and a wash rack with hot and cold water. There was one outdoor arena used for jumping and other various things, a round pen and a grassy dressage arena. I believe that there were about 30 horses on the property but about half were the BO's.

They had a pretty good system. You had a choice of legends show and pleasure or triple crown senior for your horse. The pastures were lush and well maintained so feeding hay only happened in the winter. In the winter they fed coastal but it was of good quality. Any supplements the boarder would have to provide but they fed them. You could also have different hay (alfalfa or whatever) but the boarder would have to provide it. At the afternoon feed the stalled horses would come in to the barn and the pastured horses would stay out there. They had feeding stalls in the pastures so everyone got their own feed without fighting. Pretty much all they had to do was go around in the golf cart and dump feed that was already prepared after the last feeding. Everyone had their own bucket with a label that said what they got. The barn would charge 25 dollars a month for blanketing in the winter. That would be for blankets every day or once a month it didn't matter. A farrier holding came with the cost of board but they would charge 10 dollars to hold your horse for the vet if you couldn't be there. Blankets and fly spray would be done while the pastured horses were still in their feeding stalls.
They charged 350. for pasture board and 550. for stall board. Unless there was a reason for keeping them in, the stalled horses would go out to pasture everyday after breakfast and come back in for dinner. There was always stalls left over so if a pastured horse needed to use a stall for sickness or injury you could use one. I believe that was 10 bucks a day. I guess if was going to be a lengthy time you could just pay the 550. for the month. Honestly, I would still be there if it wasn't for things happening that surrounded teenagers making major mistakes with one of my horses and a little bit of teen drama. 
It's always nice to give teens a job but you have to micro manage them and watch them like a hawk.
This was a little lengthy but I wanted to give you an idea of what worked and things did go pretty smoothly.


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## zandstrafarms (Feb 14, 2015)

That sounds like a very nice way to go. I hate seeing all these farms where they keep to many horses on 30 to 40 acres.
I think outdoor paddocks or stalks is an easy way to go and makes catching easier too.

I am also going to be very selective on who will get to board. I know it's hard weeding out the pain in the butt boarders, but id like to do my best before thry even start.

I've got two of my horses rented out already  one us a work to ride lease (1hr work = 1hr time with horse ). It could end up being a pain in my butt however I need extra help getting pastures put together or even watching my 2yr old outside playing while I work.

Other horse is a paid lease my neighbor wants to do so a buddy has a horse to ride when they go out. So that gives me cash in hand now for upgrading my saddle and getting a trainer out to help me with my horse.

It's kinda funny though. Everyone who boards thinks it sounds like a great idea, and everyone who has had boarders says "don't do it".

But it could be a personality thing too. In my opinion you shouldn't get into any biz if you don't know how to act with various types of people.

But sgain, I think the smart thing to do is take baby steps so we can refine the process along the way.


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