# Horse with goats and fences?



## evilamc

Husband and I just bought a new little farm, we aren't moving for quite a few months though so I have plenty of time to get everything set up.

Right now I only have 1 horse, and at this time do not want a second horse, once we're moved and everything is set up I will look for a boarder, but could be months before I find one...

We have about 14 acres, right now only about 2 is going to the horse, then 1 for house/kennel and the rest is wooded. We're going to be working on clearing though, at least enough so the horses can get back there to a round bale and have more room to move.

So I've been thinking about getting 2 goats to go with my horse, to keep him company since I wont have a boarder right away...and also 2 so if boarder and I both take horses off property they have eachother?

What I'm worried about though is keeping the goats contained...our house is pretty close to a major road and I'm sure none of the neighbors want goats wandering around...I wanted to run electric fencing for now, till we save up to put up a nicer fence...can 1 1/2" strand electric fencing keep goats in? Would goats bond with horse and stay close to horse? Orrr am I better off getting a mini or some other type of animal to be my horses friend? My horse does NOT like to be alone, so I really don't want to stress him out with a 6 hour move and make him be alone.


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## NorthernMama

No, a 1-1/2" electric tape will not keep a goat contained. At least not in my experience. They jump, climb, and crawl to get to where they want to go. We once set up an electric fence that was so strong, it killed snakes. No, I don't know how that worked because how does a snake end up over the bottom strand??? but it was so. The goats didn't care. We couldn't figure out what they were doing until we watched one of the goats get her horns under the wire, bend like a yoga master to get her body under the lifted wire, then drop the wire and she was free. 

Goats on a small lot need fencing that they can't climb, can't jump, can't move. They are social and very curious.

Goats in a herd, on an acreage are OK behind a decent wooden fence. I guess they don't have any reason to investigate anything.

My horse lives alone and she is fine. Not every horse needs a companion.


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## Wallaby

My theory about goats, and one I've heard echoed on various goat forums, is that a goat that has all its needs taken care of won't generally want to wander.

Pygmy goats/Nigerian Dwarves are a slight exception to that because they're so agile that basically nothing can keep them in.
But, as a horse's companion, the smaller breeds [Pygmy goats/Nigerian Dwarves] are not going to be ideal due to their small-ness.

I personally have an ancient Angora doe and a younger LaMancha/Alpine cross wether to keep my horse company.
The wether did escape when he was a baby [boredom], but now he's 3.5 years old and and wanderlust has sort of left him behind.
Due to his Alpine blood, he is not what I would consider to be the best pet. He's very smart, great fun, wonderful as a hiking buddy, and not very noisy, but he is SO high-strung. He can be intensely flighty, he's constantly getting into everything, he helps my horse get out of his grazing muzzle, I can't pen him up because he'll immediately escape and so forth.
But he is REALLY fun. He loves trotting alongside my horse when we go for trail rides and he enjoys wearing a backpack, carrying all my extra supplies.
He is quite tall [38inches] which is a bonus for me because coyotes and other predators regularly pas through the pasture.

On the other hand, my Angora is perfect for me..but so much more work.
She needs to be sheared regularly, her hooves are terrible [Angoras are not bred for hoof health = issues out the wazoo], and, due to her age, she really can only eat mashes. Due to her age and small-ness [Angoras average 28 inches tall and 80lbs], again, she was attacked by a coyote in late March and has to be penned at night.
She's very affectionate in a human-appropriate way and I really enjoy her quiet company. She's laid back and doesn't cause trouble, but she isn't as interactive as my other goat.
She's only escaped twice - once to lay in the cool grass outside the pasture, and another time because she couldn't find water that was accessible to her [she's too short for normal horse waterers].

If I had a choice, I would absolutely not get anything with Alpine ever again, but I definitely would get an Angora.
I'd prefer an Angora cross so hopefully shearing was no longer an issue, but I would get an Angora.

I should say that I have literally the worst fencing for goats - it's 6 acres of mostly 2ft high "sheep fence" plus 4ft tall non-electric smooth wire, some areas have 6ft deer fencing, while other areas don't even have "real" fencing due to blackberry bushes.
Addendum: literally the worst fencing ever. It's a wonder anything stays in! haha


My horse loves his goats. He had never been around goats before he came home and met my [already established] goats. He loved them from the second week and their bond has only improved. He and my trouble-making wether goat loveeee to egg eachother on into hijinks, while he and my older goat love resting together.


Long story short: goats can be rough and hard to deal with. But they are super fun and rewarding. They just aren't ideal if you want something to make your horse life less complicated - if you're looking for a somewhat uncomplicated pet, goats aren't gonna be it. 
A mini horse or donkey [though, to avoid metabolic issues from pasture life, it's likely they'd need a grazing muzzle in the summer] might be better. Another good option might be an older, unrideable companion horse.


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## evilamc

Yay I was hoping you'd see this Wallaby! Thank you for all that info. 

I don't think my horse would do well alone Northern, but I guess I wouldn't know for sure unless I tried. Hes VERY social, does not like being left alone at barn I'm at now.

As far as having a goat I'd need to shear, that wouldn't bother me, I'm a dog groomer. Yes they're different then dogs but in the end its still shaving an animal so I think I'd manage fine 

The fencing really is my biggest concern. Once some of the woods are cleared enough that you can safely walk around in them they'd have tons of room and a nice stream...but until then? My horse seems to love anything that moves...like literally, he tries to make friends with rabbits even...So I'm sure he would like the goats, just a matter of goats liking him enough to not want to wander?

I thought about an older companion horse, that COULD work but I'm hoping once on the farm I'll eventually be able to get my husband interested in riding, so I don't really want to take on the care of an unrideable horse then need a second riding horse for him later on. My current BO had a mammoth donkey when I moved in, and I think that scarred me for life with Donkeys  I'm THINKING about a mini, but I will have to be careful about it with the grass. I am setting up a sacrifice area though and I'm sure could get it a grazing muzzle.

Do you think a mini would be less of a hassle then goats? I'm sure I could train it to drive and make it somewhat useful lol!! I dunno I've really been wanting goats because they can eat a lot of the brush/weeds in the woods but I'm just so concerned with keeping them fenced since so close to a busy road


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## Wallaby

Anytime, evilamc!! 

I realized that I should have clarified in my original post that Atticus [my wether] is very true to type, personality-wise, of the Alpine breed. He physically follows his LaMancha side, but mentally follows his Alpine side.
The same is true for Hazel - her personality rings true with what an Angora "should" be.
I'm sure there is personality variation within the breeds, but my two are very true to what they "should" behave like.
I didn't want it to sound like I was senselessly "bashing" the Alpine breed/senselessly loving Angoras, or something like that. :lol:

I can't tell you if a mini would for sure be less hassle, but I can tell you that it will be the difference between two animals that need their hooves trimmed [and who can probably be trimmed by the same person] and three [with you potentially trimming two of those animals...and goats are not like horses to trim - they can become somewhat easier as they grow used to hoof handling, but, imo, there's always gonna be some wrestling involved]. Three feed pans to fill with, potentially, separate feeds/supplements...vs two pans.

I can honestly say that feeding Hazel, my old lady goat who I adore, costs me more than feeding my horse AND Atticus - combined. She also gets her hooves trimmed by the horse hoof trimmer [thank goodness!] which makes it WAY easier on me [and her too, since she gets sore if just anyone trims her], but that adds to her monthly expense. 
I adore her, but I got into goats thinking they'd be a "cheaper option." :rofl: Luckily I'm able to get her what she needs just fine, but I'm trying to be realistic with you! haha


About the weeds and bushes - goats are surprisingly picky and they are browsers. So, like deer, they like to nibble here and there..then move on. You can make a pretty big dent in things if you have a lot of goats [like 10+] because they'll all be picking at things in the same area, then moving on.
But if you have just two, forget it.
Two are like "here, let us eat 4 leaves off this bush and 7 flowers and one strand of grass! And now we're gonna go cuddle in the sun and digest while being ADORABLE! LOLOLOL"
My two goats have made a noticeable dent in the blackberry bushes [a favorite goat food] in some of the well-travelled areas of the pasture, but other, farther reaching, areas of the pasture have only become more overgrown. I love the dent that they've made, but, going into goat-ownership, I definitely thought the dent would be bigger.
It's the same with weeds - some tasty weeds will be gone and you'll never have to worry about them again. Others will turn out to not be so tasty and BOOM: weed palooza.
That's another thing about goats - if you have any plants/trees in your pasture that you love, basically expect that to also turn out to be the tastiest thing in the whole pasture. :rofl: :rofl:


I definitely love my goats, but they aren't anything like I expected them to be like. 
However, I wouldn't give them up for the world. They are wonderfully interactive animals and they bring a certain brand of levity to every situation. Getting Hazel-kisses [goats LOVE trying to lick eyeballs. haha] before work is a surefire way to make sure my day is amazing.


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## lostastirrup

All I know is goats eat tails....and not even hot sauce will stop them....I will leave this thread to the goat experts now....


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## Wallaby

lostastirrup said:


> All I know is goats eat tails....and not even hot sauce will stop them....


That IS true! Or, at least, can tend to be true. But good point!
Hazel, my girl goat, has absolutely no interest in that sort of thing.

Butttttt, of course, Atticus, my boy goat, is all about tails. He ate Lacey's tail up something awful. He left it alone if I braided it, but would slowly start munching it away if I left it loose. She still had a serviceable amount of tail, it was just shorter.
So far, knock on wood, Atticus hasn't started on Fabio's [my current horse] gorgeous tail. I assume it's due to the fact that Fabio is the boss of everybody, whereas Lacey was not the boss [Atticus was...why are we not surprised? haha]. If Atticus gets anywhere near Fabio without being invited, Fabio chases him right off. 
Lacey treated Atti like he was her baby so she basically allowed him to do whatever, all the time. Fabio is a good change of pace. :lol:

The one thing I found that kept Atti off Lacey's tail was homemade flyspray with Avon's SkinSoSoft in it. But I had to respray it at least once a day and it made her tail kind of tacky-feeling. 

I think the tail-eating thing is potentially a luck-of-the-draw type deal, unfortunately. You may end up with a goat who shows no interest in tails, but you may also end up with one that thinks tails are the last food source on earth. :?


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## ponypile

The most ideal fence would be chain link, but this is very expensive. The next best thing would be a regular horse fence (wood panel or metal pipe) with page wire lining it. A horse can easily push through a page wire fence, and a goat can squeeze through panel fencing, so the combination is good for both SO LONG AS the holes in the page wire are significantly smaller than a horse's hoof. Large holed page wire can be dangerous for horses if they get a hoof stuck in it. Goats are smart, tricky creatures, who can jump and climb and in my experience, more likely to escape just for the heck of it, than horses. Good luck!


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## evilamc

Thank you everyone for your input!!

It's sounding more and more like the goats may not be ideal 

A tail chewer would not be fun to have around that's for sure, nor would a picky eater!! 

Sounds like I just wouldn't be able to make goat safe fencing with what money I have right now  and that is the biggest concern to me. We got a decent deal on the house but it needs a LOT of work, I have s good amount of cash for it but only so much can go towards the horse stuff  I've been doing side jobs to save up more for the horse stuff too. Luckily it already has a perfect barn and run in, so main things for horses are my fencing and footing to set up a good sacrifice area. Just from my calculations I can probably only swing electric fencing for now  we're hoping to use some of the trees we cut down to make into boards though, have a portable saw mill, so will eventually upgrade to wood board fencing.

Blah back to the drawing board. I know I won't have trouble getting s boarder in but I only want to take in one till I get the woods cleared some, I just worry a boarder I get will have a horse that will tear up my field when I take my horse out!! I'm going to be such a field nazi too since I have so little of it at first.

I know a mini donkey COULD work and be useful with predators but I've just had such a bad experience with donkeys I'm kind of scared to try.

The inspector I used actually has a mini horse, and we talked about it she is looking at getting a full size and was interested in boarding with me...maybe I can get her to let me borrow her mini for a little while and see how that works? She only loves a few miles from new house so it's not like I'd be taking it far and she currently boards it.


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## stevenson

my nubian does did not eat the horses tails. They would however eat all the horse feed/grain.
they can keep a horse company. They destroy fences, did not jump, but would crawl under fences(. Field fence) they destroyed the chain link panels . they did stay in the portable horse pens with field fence around them. They will eat trees.


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## NorthernMama

Wallaby - just your comment about if a goat has what it needs, it won't wander. Well, I don't know how that is in your experience, but my goats didn't need anything. They had water, lots to eat, lots to play and climb (our apple tree among others), and shelter (trees). However, there was always something interesting going on on the OTHER side of the fence. They just HAD to investigate. Sometimes it was just to stand on the hood of MDH's 4x4 pickup, sometimes to try to get into the house, to find a new tree to climb... whatever floated their boat that day.

Without inve$ting in a fen$e, the best way I kept them contained was on a leash and it worked well. I could get brush cleared and lawns trimmed whereever I needed it that week!


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## natisha

What about a couple of sheep? I don't fence my sheep in at all & they stay on the property. If they are fenced they are OK with it. They go into the barn every night, come when called & cause less trouble than any other animal I have.

This is the sheep in my avatar. Who wouldn't want that?
https://youtu.be/_qwSXxBn7AQ


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## MsCuriosity

Ha! I'm with Natisha... what about sheep?


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## evilamc

Didn't think about sheep! Horses seem to usually like them and they don't like to wander? Sounds good to me.

What should I know about sheep?


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## evilamc

I've been pricing out doing 3 strand electrobraid Fencing...on a quick google search it seems that electric netting type fencing is recommended for sheep though  Wonder if others have same experience that sheep don't like to wander as much and my 3 strand fence would work with them?


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## natisha

What to know about sheep. I'm not a pro but I'll tell you what I found out the hard way.
If you get ewes (girls) be sure they have tails at least to the distal end of the caudal tail fold to prevent rectal or vaginal prolapse.
Longer tails will keep flies off their 'parts' too, boys & girls. Some States ban the severe docking, which is good. Wisconsin is slow to get that idea but it's coming.

If boys they should be neutered (wethers) or they get mean (rams). But... if you get a boy that was castrated too young their urinary track won't get big enough to pass their gritty urine & they can get a blockage that can kill them & surgery isn't always successful. So the boys should intact 7-12 months to prevent that. If they get mean in that time they tame after neutering provided they were handled when young. 

Bottle fed babies are best to get super friendly sheep. 
You need at least 2 or they are very unhappy.
People say sheep are dumb & in groups it would seem that way but that's because they have no leader. One moves they all move the same way. But that's also why it's easy to teach them things. They are smart.

Different breeds of sheep have different temperaments. Hair sheep that don't need shearing tend to be on the wilder side. Cheviots are tightly wired too. That's what I have now as I thought they were Southdowns, but they're here to stay.
Meat sheep seem friendlier.
They can't eat anything with copper. They love horse treats. 
Stranger danger is their motto unless very friendly. 

Horses don't like the taste of their wool, at least my horse didn't 

They will eat all your pink flowers, then the rest.

You don't need to flip 'em to clip 'em. Holding their chin up immobilizes them but they still don't like the legs done.

Males have teats next to their scrotum. :shock:

They are wary of strange dogs & fine with dogs they know.

They don't head butt like goats but if they want to run trying to stop them is like trying to stop a fuzzy boulder. 

They need their feet trimmed once or twice a year. I sometimes have my farrier trim them but he won't put "I do sheep" on his farrier truck.:wink:


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## evilamc

LOL Awesome info thank you!! Do your sheep just hang out with your horses then and consider it their herd leader?

I did some googling and a lot of people say sheep are as bad as goats to contain  I guess I wont know till I try...

So hard to decide whats best to do, I don't want to get some animals and basically throw them in the field and watch them get killed when they decide my fence isn't good enough...but at same time I don't want to spend the money on the netting fence since we'd like to upgrade to board fences after a few years.

More research time.


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## natisha

evilamc said:


> LOL Awesome info thank you!! Do your sheep just hang out with your horses then and consider it their herd leader?
> 
> I did some googling and a lot of people say sheep are as bad as goats to contain  I guess I wont know till I try...
> 
> So hard to decide whats best to do, I don't want to get some animals and basically throw them in the field and watch them get killed when they decide my fence isn't good enough...but at same time I don't want to spend the money on the netting fence since we'd like to upgrade to board fences after a few years.
> 
> More research time.


My sheep aren't in with the horses usually but sometimes they go in with the mares, never the geldings. I have no climb horse fence but I have openings that dogs & sheep can fit through if needed.

My sheep aren't contained so they spend their time in the hay fields, barn or sleeping where ever they want. They can be contained without fussing.
I've never seen them try to climb or ram a fence.

Sheep & horses do not speak the same language, so a horse pinning its ears in warning means nothing to sheep. Basically sheep would give your horse another animal to be around but I doubt they would bond. They will bond to you though if you get the right sheep. I had one that went everywhere I did. 
If we had a deck party he was right there too.
Sheep don't consider anything their leader, there is no pecking order. If one does something the other follows. Once they came down the barn aisle & I had a broom held out so the first sheep jumped it. I moved the broom before the next sheep came & it jumped too, though there was nothing to jump.

They like to head butt the dogs.

They will follow people if they think a treat is involved. I taught a sheep to do an obstacle course but she demanded a treat after every obstacle.

They're fun to have around.
https://youtu.be/F2DXfffa_kE


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## Joel Reiter

For either sheep or goats, Premier recommends woven wire with one or more electric wires offset inside the pasture, high enough that the animals can graze under them to keep them weed free.

Electric Fencing - Premier1Supplies

They also recommend a wide impedance energizer to overcome the insulation created by a goat's very dry hair. I have their Kube 4000 and it has kept my horses in and kept the varmints away from my chickens. The Kube is the least expensive unit they recommend for goats.


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