# Waterford Bit?



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Haven't used it and hence subbing but it sounds like it may be very good for your situation.

I might try a curb (Pelham?) first to pick him up a little.


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## shellybean (Dec 28, 2012)

I use one for my gelding. I started using it because he started to lean into the bit, and when he had didn't want to do something he would grab the bit and do whatever he pleased so I was recommended one of these. While I don't rely on bits to fix my problems, I just think he wasn't happy with any of the bits I tried (although he seems to like his d-ring french link...not a fan of single jointed snaffles it seems), and he goes very well in this bit and has never been happier...which says a lot for him because he is very picky and opinionated and lets you know if he doesn't like something lol. He will happily take his bit now and loves to roll it around and suck on it...never seen him happier!


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

It is my mare's favorite snaffle.

I'm not an English rider and I don't ride with constant contact - preferably as little as I can. That might affect things. From what I can tell by placing it on the back of my hand and pulling, it gives very even pressure, probably more on the tongue than on the bars. These pictures may help:








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A single joint puts most of the pressure on the bars, while the center joint tends to lift away from the tongue. A French Link puts some on the tongue, but how much pressure is still applied to the bars depends on the size of the center link. The Waterford seems to me to apply even more to the tongue and less to the bars - kind of an ultimate french link, if you will.

In use, it seemed to have no more "stopping power" or "bite" than any other snaffle. It did nothing to make her easier to stop when excited, nor did it do anything to get her off the forehand. A western curb bit did help both of those problems, but I strongly suspect that isn't a solution that will appeal to you.

I see no reason to consider a Waterford a harsh bit. It conforms well to the mouth and applies even pressure. Try placing one on the back of your hand and let someone pull on the reins. To me, it feels GENTLER than either a single or double joint snaffle. The only snaffle that rivals it for Mia's acceptance is a Billy Allen snaffle:








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That is another design that seems to apply more tongue pressure than pressure to the bars, so my horse may be one that doesn't like bar pressure. I think that is a more useful way of thinking about bits: rather than harsh/gentle, think about where it applies pressure and how it fits in the mouth.

But I'm not English in my approach, as one of my favorite pictures of Mia shows (including the Waterford bit in her mouth):










Let me add one other theory. Horses will sometimes push into pain. A single joint snaffle is the snaffle most prone to catching the cheek between the bit & the molars, causing pain. A Waterford may be the least likely. If that theory applies, then a horse may push less on the Waterford because it is more comfortable rather than because it is more painful. That is all 100% guess, though. I have no evidence to back it up.​


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## Princessa (Apr 10, 2014)

I just put my girl in this, full cheek, and the ride is sooo much smoother. She seems to enjoy it. Let us know how it works out for you! No harm in trying IMO


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

Thank you all for your input! Very informative.

Yogi, I'm probably going to have my trainer try a pelham first, but I think it might be too strong for him. While he does get heavy he also has a very soft, sensitive mouth.

I am particularly intrigued by the Waterford because it is supposedly so mild. I have no need for anything with "bite," and I can actually ride Remy around in a halter. He's a good guy with a lovely mind and a nice big whoa. 

I'm not going to be back in Montana until late January, so while I'll probably have my trainer try a pelham we're not going to mess with a Waterford until then. She's also going to start riding him in spurs, because Remy's just SO lazy.

Wild and crazy OTTBs . . . Hah!


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## SketchyHorse (May 14, 2012)

Honestly, I'd try the Waterford before jumping to the Pelham. My personal opinion. I did the 10 billion bit experiment with my WB mare over the summer because I felt like she wasn't content in her double joint. The Waterford + Loose Ring makes it harder for him to really grab the bit & drag your hands down. It has the potential to be a harsh bit because of the many breaks - it could easily pinch or restrict the tongue with rough hands. Now my mare is a little different as she was just kinda hard mouthed & liked to rip the reins so she needed something with a bit more "bite." Out on the XC field I opted for a Pelham. It felt like serious overkill on the flat. Riding just on the snaffle rein she could still easily snatch at the bit & hold it because of the solid mouthpiece (she preferred ported) so she needed to be rode slightly with the curb rein. She was slightly better in the Waterford as opposed to her double joint D Ring, but the bit she rode the absolute best in was a Dr. Bristol Full Cheek. It gave me just enough "stopping power" (for lack of better words) without feeling kinda overkill like the Pelham. 

Everyone could recommend 10 billion bits to you & in the end it ultimately depends on your horse. I'd have never thought a Dr. Bristol would be "the bit" for my mare as she wasn't a huge double joint fan.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I think Pelham vs Waterford depends on WHY he is doing what he is doing.

As I said personally I would try the Pelham first based on the little I know.

Think of it as a double bridle. You ride off the snaffle and then the curb is there if you need it for a little lift. If your trainer has good hands and is familiar with the bit/double reins then it won't necessarily be harsh at all. You may want to try a mullen mouth for this. It will give you the "pick up" without anything else and without you riding exclusively in a curb if he doesn't like that (don't use converters or a Kimberwicke or anything). A double bridle is no harsher then the rider. it's not just for strong horses (though it can be lol)

Think of it as you are in terms of training and not in terms of "harshness".

I doubt you will end up using a Pelham regularly but it sounds like it may be the perfect training tool in this situation.

Now if he does well in the Waterford it may be something to use regularly as I've heard many horses prefer it and I'm guessing he may like it more then his current.

Pelham as training tool (just for the lift and "off my hands"). Waterford as a "now that you know that do you like this?" and potentially "oh look you love it and maybe we will keep you in it".


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## Burgundian Mercenary (Jul 1, 2008)

I bought a Neue Schule Waterford with jumper cheeks for my TB and he seemed very comfortable with it. I had previously been using a James Patterson curved French link snaffle, which suited him fine, as it had a slim broad mouthpiece and he has a small mouth with an enormous tongue. The only reason I changed was that I'd starting jumping him and he got very overexcited, so my teacher advised me to get something with a little more leverage. I originally tried the JP French link three-ring gag, but the mouthpiece was thicker than the snaffle version and he didn't like it at all. The Neue Schule Waterford is a bit slimmer than standard ones, so it didn't interfere with his big tongue, and it's also made of a warm-touch alloy (Salox, if I remember rightly). He didn't really need a very strong bit, so I put Pelham roundings on to halve the length of lever action on the bottom ring and he went fine in it.

Strangely enough, my current ride is a TBx (my TB is now retired) and I ended up using the same bit with him after he made it very clear that he didn't like a French link snaffle (go figure!). I was at a loss as what else to try and the Waterford was sitting my tack room, so I thought it was worth a go and it turned out he loved it.


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

An update: I ended up getting the Waterford and have been riding Remy in it, and he really seems to love it! He just goes very nicely in it with very little pressure. My trainer has been having me ride on the buckle (literally) and he hasn't been bearing down at all! It's definitely made him lighter up front, which is awesome.


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## EdmontonHorseGal (Jun 2, 2013)

EliRose said:


> An update: I ended up getting the Waterford and have been riding Remy in it, and he really seems to love it! He just goes very nicely in it with very little pressure. *My trainer has been having me ride on the buckle (literally) and he hasn't been bearing down at all!* It's definitely made him lighter up front, which is awesome.


one other thing to think about is that he is leaning on your hands because he knows he can, and when you ride 'on the buckle' he has nothing to lean against because there is not really any contact when on the buckle. this means it's not truly the bit, but the horse vs your hands.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

I agree. Riding on the buckle is a fix for bad hands. I say, you should try lunging this horse and leading him with his bridle on. If he continues to fuss and fume after a good 1/2 hour or so or lunging, and hand walking with NO BIT CONTACT, (keep a halter and lead on), _then_ I would consider a bit change. You could also stall him with the bridle on, reins removed for 3-4 hours at a time. *So many horses are just plain green to a bit,* and settle in after exposure. Others pull bc the rider has very stiff hands and does not know how to follow the bit.
Another thing to try requires a calm babysitter horse to learn, and it is a tactic I used to retrain students who started with another instructor and had developed hard hands. I would tie a 2nd set of reins to the bit from baling twine, and the student would ride with the twine on the outside of their pinkies, sans riding gloves. You really Feel the mouth of the horse, and the twine digs in when you do not. Do NOT try this with you TB, bc you'll be in pain and your horse still won't listen.
Several lessons with the twine reins and my student would begin to feel the bit and lighten up.


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## Goldilocks (Jan 30, 2015)

I really think Waterford bits should be made illegal. Sorry.


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## SaraM (Feb 14, 2014)

Can you ride with contact in a waterford? Like dressage contact, not hunter contact. Just curious.


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## Goldilocks (Jan 30, 2015)

SaraM said:


> Can you ride with contact in a waterford? Like dressage contact, not hunter contact. Just curious.


I don't personally think you can. To me, the horse will put its head wherever you hands tell it. I've never seen a horse foam for a waterford.


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

Goldilocks said:


> I don't personally think you can. To me, the horse will put its head wherever you hands tell it. I've never seen a horse foam for a waterford.


My horse foams very nicely for it, and I can definitely have contact. I need to get pictures. It is NOT a very harsh bit and he's very happy in it. Definitely softer than a Pelham. This is a horse who will refuse to take a single-joint snaffle because he hates them so much.

And the riding on the buckle is actually just an exercise we've doing because I haven't ridden for almost two months and need to regain some muscle. I normally have very nice hands. I have been riding with normal contact most of time. He has also been in this bit for a while with my trainer, I have only been back in MT since Friday.

He is not fussing AT ALL anymore. He used to lean on the bit with several different, well-regarded trainers who for a fact have soft hands. He's been hard-mouthed since before I owned him. We'll probably be transitioning back to his French Link full-time by mid/late spring. I just got back from a lesson and had no problems at all. I will not be competing this horse in a Waterford.

The lightness isn't just from the bit, it's also because he's been in full professional training for two months, of which half a month was dedicated nearly solely to groundwork - all of which in the French Link. My trainer has been extremely impressed with the change following the Waterford.

Sorry if I seem defensive, I'm not trying to be. Just pretty tired.


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

^^Reading over the grammar from that post . . . Sorry :shock:


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## budley95 (Aug 15, 2014)

Waterfords are a great piece of kit that are definitely under rated. I love them for horses that lean on your hands. Much kinder to put a bit in to help them understand to get off your hands than nag the horse in my opinion - they usually get the idea after only a couple of rides. My horse won't actually tolerate a snaffle - as in takes it between his teeth, tanks, broncs and is horrible to ride - a Cherry roller has been the way forward for him - if one bit worked for all horses we wouldn't have so many. Use it as an aid to help him understand - not as a shortcut for schooling and they're great


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## EdmontonHorseGal (Jun 2, 2013)

ah, the added information does help.

but the professional training for two months i think, combined with alternate exercises (riding on the buckle) are, in my mind, the variables that are causing the improvement mostly, not so much the change in bit. the bit may be part of the factor because your horse is more agreeable to packing it and receiving rein cues with it, but it's not the catalyst in the training transformation you are seeing. that's just my opinion. yes, horses will prefer one style of bit over others at times, and i will agree with you on some horses not liking single joint snaffles.


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

EdmontonHorseGal said:


> ah, the added information does help.
> 
> but the professional training for two months i think, combined with alternate exercises (riding on the buckle) are, in my mind, the variables that are causing the improvement mostly, not so much the change in bit. the bit may be part of the factor because your horse is more agreeable to packing it and receiving rein cues with it, but it's not the catalyst in the training transformation you are seeing. that's just my opinion. yes, horses will prefer one style of bit over others at times, and i will agree with you on some horses not liking single joint snaffles.


Ah oh yes definitely! He was showing significant improvement pre-change, he just was less happy about it. But, he seems to definitely enjoy the Waterford. He's just a lighter, more pleasantly reactive horse in general. Very fun ride.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

OP, we are all glad that you horse is more mangeable. I didn't know what a Waterford bit was, so I looked it up.
Korsteel Loose Ring Waterford Bit 5 Inch - Statelinetack.com
THIS bit reminds me of a bit I have seen before, called a bicycle chain mouthpiece snaffle. I understand it works well on a mule. (NO insult meant for your mule trainers, here.)
To be clear, you _may_ be successful with one bit that works better on your horse. Do not expect this bit to work wonders on any others.
ALL change occurs in the horse because of patient training. You have said that your trainer has worked on your horse. I would say that the trainer has made these changes happen, as well as training YOU to be more sensitive to the reins.
We all who have trained horses for many decades appreciate good training methods and are happy to entertain a discussion of different equipment.
Personally, I would not ever switch my horse from a French link snaffle to a Waterford bit. Harsher bits callous your horse to mouth sensitivity.
IMHO, I would work this horse on the ground to listen to a verbal whoa and very light on the lead.
But, that takes time, and everybody new to horses becomes impatient.
Just FYI.


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

The bit you linked to is not the same bit as the one I am using, I'm using this: Kangaroo Waterford Dee Ring Bit | Dover Saddlery
As I've stated, it is really not that harsh. In the picture those sharp-looking pieces are actually very dull rollers. It looks harsher than it actually is.

The issue with my particular horse is that he DOES respond to a verbal woe and light ground cues. He got very heavy up front, but the moment you applied any pressure on his face he would try and break gait. He was used as a beginner trail horse for several years before I got him and had an odd dull/but light thing going on. I have worked with him with trainers for almost a year.

This bit wasn't a magic bullet, but it worked well for my horse (along, of course, with correct riding and training). If this makes any sense at all, which reading it back to myself doesn't, we wanted to get Remy both lighter AND duller at the same time. He was already quick to cues, we just wanted him and to relax his face.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Corporal said:


> ...I would not ever switch my horse from a French link snaffle to a Waterford bit. Harsher bits callous your horse to mouth sensitivity...


A Waterford is NOT a harsher bit than a French Link. It applies pressure more evenly than a French Link. That even pressure may be accepted by a horse better than the uneven distribution of pressure with either a single joint or french link.

Not giving a timely release makes a horse insensitive. The horse is no more or less insensitive than its rider - not after a time, at least.

Try wrapping a Waterford against the back of your hand and having someone pull. Compare that to a single joint, or a french link. They all feel different. Not harsher. Not gentler. Different.


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