# Roan changing color AGAIN! Maybe not a Roan?



## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Roans should be known as the horse of a different color. They'll change colors about 3 times a year between looking solid and looking like a roan. Our bay roan looked bay all the time though so can't help you out with bay/blue roan issue. If you post some pics it might help the color gurus on the forum figure it out for you.


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Roans usually loose the coloured hair first often making them look almost grey on their body. When the white hairs drop they usually then show heir roan colour.


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

What was said. But to add, without seeing pics a lot of people are very general with colors, especially terminology...what is a "blue" roan? Obviously the horse isn't blue.. a darker brown horse will often have the same appearance as a black horse. My guess is that she is likely brown and dark (maybe even seal brown?) or she could just be regular bay and the prior owners didn't differentiate. They didn't TELL you she was black based just that she was a "blue roan"...fwiw a bay roan is "purple"... So basically what I'm say is "blue" and "purple" aren't really the most accurate terms to begin with  I have heard bay roans called "blue" before. Try not to overthink it, she is only one color and the prior owners may or may not have been accurate.

As far as actual color if she appears obviously bay/brown and you know she isn't sunbleached than she is likely not a true black. There is no marking difference between colors + roan. The colors will appear exactly the same as a horse without roan, just have the addition of white hairs.

I'd definitely be curious for pics. As far as the EXACT color of the hairs.. I've seen chestnuts that look bay and blacks that look chestnut, etc, etc. Having a few brown hairs doesn't mean a black horse can't possibly be black for example, it's about the bigger picture. But a roan changing color definitely does NOT mean it's not roan, it's pretty common


----------



## Pipersmom (Apr 18, 2018)

Thanks, I'll try to do that! She was never a blue roan, the people that sold her to me just claimed that, but she certainly looked like a bay roan for a while. Now she looks like she's turning black and losing that white hair. That's where I'm confused. I appreciate your comments!


----------



## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

I did hunt you up on Instagram. Looks like a roan to me, but... I think you have a blue roan with a seal brown base.  That explains the body being 'blue roan' and the head and stockings being brown/dark brown almost black.


----------



## Pipersmom (Apr 18, 2018)

How do I post a photo? I have them on Instagram and I'm not trying to hype my page, but I don't have their URL, they are under discoverpiper with a new pic of her posted just today and several comparison photos posted under #transformation tuesdays. All you have to do is look at my account, or please educate me on how to post photos here?!


----------



## Pipersmom (Apr 18, 2018)

OK, maybe this will work: [IMGhttp://www.pictaram.net/post/1759350004646715955_7473731725[/IMG]







It's how she looked when I first got her and how she looked as a "bay roan" and how she looks today, she has black marks on her belly and her shoulder is getting black as she is losing the white hair quickly all over! Thanks again in advance! Note: before I purchased her she was all black! Well I tried but the photos are not showing up! Sorry!


----------



## Pipersmom (Apr 18, 2018)

Thank you so much! I am trying to post the photos, but it's not working for me! It was very nice of you to visit my page and take a look! The latest photo of her that I posted today, shows how a black new undercoat is coming through on her belly and shoulders! Thanks again!


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

You aren't going to have a blue roan if the base is brown even if it is seal brown. Black plus roan is blue roan. Bay/Brown plus roan is bay roan or purple roan. My son thinks the seal brown roans look like SwissMiss Cocoa so he calls them cocoa roan. They all have black points, black mane and tail but the body color is different. (black, red or brown). A chestnut/sorrel plus roan is a red roan or strawberry roan. Can't see the pictures but a black can fade and look bay or have cream with the black giving the body when it fades more of a golden or brownish tone. This would be still be blue roan. The new coat comes in true before the fade begins. You could also have smokey thrown in on a bay or brown really confusing things further. I'd love to see pictures if you can get them up. the link doesn't work for me.


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Nevermind...


----------



## Pipersmom (Apr 18, 2018)

- media photos videos


----------



## Pipersmom (Apr 18, 2018)




----------



## Pipersmom (Apr 18, 2018)




----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Ok now I see something with the link. Because of the cinnamon muzzle and pinkish cast to the leg I'll say brown roan. It may also be she has added ticking from sabino or rabicano. Didn't get a good look at the tail. Roan though looks definite as the inverted V on the knees is a roan trait.


----------



## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

QtrBel said:


> You aren't going to have a blue roan if the base is brown even if it is seal brown. Black plus roan is blue roan. Bay/Brown plus roan is bay roan or purple roan. My son thinks the seal brown roans look like SwissMiss Cocoa so he calls them cocoa roan. They all have black points, black mane and tail but the body color is different. (black, red or brown). A chestnut/sorrel plus roan is a red roan or strawberry roan. Can't see the pictures but a black can fade and look bay or have cream with the black giving the body when it fades more of a golden or brownish tone. This would be still be blue roan. The new coat comes in true before the fade begins. You could also have smokey thrown in on a bay or brown really confusing things further. I'd love to see pictures if you can get them up. the link doesn't work for me.


Ah, that's what I get for misreading the color genetics page.

BROWN roans can have a red or blue body with brown/dark points. So that was my bad. 

Piper - if you'll go to 'advanced' in your posting options, scroll down to manage extensions, and then click on the upload options, it will let you.

I was trying to snag some of your pix and post them for you, but hah hah. Instagram won't let me.


----------



## Pipersmom (Apr 18, 2018)

Thanks! I'm still trying to get the photos up, but it's not working. I'm sorry! They are on my Instagram on discoverpiper. I am just wondering why she would be shedding the white hair now and getting a black undercoat. Does a true roan do that? Still trying to figure out how to post pics here. Thanks to all of you who are offering your insight!


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

A roan doesn't unroan. They DO change from looking very roan to looking less roan. A roan is a roan. There are some other genes that cause body ticking but not the way roan does.

I don't understand "pictaram" so went directly to instagram and was able to view them fine. OP are those pics on your computer initially? Hit "go advanced" and you can click the paperclip icon and upload directly from your computer.

Your mare is definitely roan. As such she is still roan, I'm sure when she is done shedding out you will see at least a few white hairs. She will likely continue to change somewhat regularly.

As far as her color? I agree that she is seal brown (and pat on the back to the psychic me last page ;P) and as such would be brown or "purple" roan. (Or you could say "seal brown roan"). And even the colors people are throwing out on this page are confusing, which is why I always take "fake" color names (purple/blue) with a grain of salt.


----------



## Pipersmom (Apr 18, 2018)

*Roan changing color Again continued*

Thank you AtokaGhosthorse! I'm trying that now! The last photo shows her getting black on her shoulder and belly. She's shedding out her white hair! Is this normal and what type of roan is she then? 

Thanks to all of you!!! Finally made it!


----------



## Pipersmom (Apr 18, 2018)

So I was finally able to post the photos, but now everyone seems to have left. I was wondering if someone can now tell me what type of roan they believe she is, and why she looks like her coat is shedding out its white hair to black? Thanks in advance!


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

She is seal brown with roan. The winter coat on a roan can have more white than the base. That does not change her color (seal brown) or the fact that she is roan. She could have additional influence from another gene that causes white ticking but you won't see that until she sheds out. You did say quarter horse, correct?


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Seal brown is the darkest variation of brown. A brown like a bay will have black mane and tail and black points. A bay has a red body and a brown has a brown body. Look up the thread BadA$$ Brown. On my phone or I would bump it up. You'll see all of the variation. A brown shows more seasonal changes than any other color.


----------



## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

I can't help you any but no matter what she is Piper is really beautiful!


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Pipersmom said:


> So I was finally able to post the photos, but now everyone seems to have left. I was wondering if someone can now tell me what type of roan they believe she is, and why she looks like her coat is shedding out its white hair to black? Thanks in advance!


For sake of explaining: roan is NOT a color. Roan is a MIXTURE of white hairs on the base coat. A few white hairs and the horse looks dark with white ticking, a lot of white hairs and the horse can look white. She is not shedding out her white hairs, she is shedding out ALL her winter hairs, as the new coat is coming in she has "decided" to grow less white hairs and more dark hairs giving her an overall darker appearance. She still has white/dark hairs just like she did but say her previous ratio was 85% white and 15% dark, at the moment it is say 90% dark and 10% white. So nothing changes about her except how many white hairs decide to grow at any given time, and that does change, sometimes dramatically as you have seen! She's just shedding out to her new coat, same as any other horse, only her color has changed much more than typical for other horses.

Does that make sense?

As I said above her color is seal brown (mostly black but the cinnamon spots in her "soft areas" such as her muzzle showing that she is not a true black but is brown based), that makes her a seal brown roan. If you want to "call" her something I would go with purple roan, but those names aren't always accurate as you have seen they are...nicknames for the actual color. They are not types of roans just base coat + roan = made up color. The mixture of hairs can be interesting. My mother rode a VERY cool large gelding once who was very actually PINK, his name was the Pink Panther


----------



## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

She looks like a Bay roan to me.

I think the roan white coat is camouflage in winter, whereas the summer coat is more of a natural brown. 

Roans are known for changing color dramatically between their winter and summer coats.


----------



## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

She may shed out different color hairs at a different time... My paint mare sheds out white hairs first, while the black hairs remain long. Then she sheds out the black. Right now she is clipped so I didn't notice it this year but if I don't clip her, it is really noticeable.


----------



## Pipersmom (Apr 18, 2018)

Yes, she is a Quarter Horse! Thank you for your reply! I appreciate it!


----------



## Pipersmom (Apr 18, 2018)

Thank you very much, I will look it up!


----------



## Pipersmom (Apr 18, 2018)

That is very sweet of you to say! Yes she's a keeper! Thank you!


----------



## Pipersmom (Apr 18, 2018)

Yes now it makes sense to me, thank you for your patience. I am new to roans. I appreciate you taking the time to explain it to me!


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

4horses said:


> She may shed out different color hairs at a different time... My paint mare sheds out white hairs first, while the black hairs remain long. Then she sheds out the black. Right now she is clipped so I didn't notice it this year but if I don't clip her, it is really noticeable.


This is a good point, some horses more than others but plenty of "solid" horses with a big white blaze you'll notice the blaze shedding first which is always funny.


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Pipersmom said:


> Yes now it makes sense to me, thank you for your patience. I am new to roans. I appreciate you taking the time to explain it to me!


I'm guessing this was to my last post and I'm glad I could help!! Some colors are very interesting.


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Bay and brown are variations of the same location of the gene that controls that expression. It limits the black to the edges/tips of the horse (mane, tail, tips of ears, muzzle, and legs. The body then is left some variation of red or brown. There are three ways for "bay" to express - as a wild variation where the black on the legs is well below the hocks and sometimes a cream strip of hair runs up the back of the leg and around the top of the black if it is at the pastern or as bay which gives the horse the red body and the other is a brown body which comes with cinnamon points on the muzzle and in the soft spots. This horse has the cinnamon coloring and would be brown. As dark as she is coming in seal brown.


----------



## Pipersmom (Apr 18, 2018)

Thank you Yogiwick and QtrBel, I appreciate the information. She sure had me guessing. Glad to know she is a roan afterall. May both of you have a wonderful day!


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Pipersmom said:


> Thank you Yogiwick and QtrBel, I appreciate the information. She sure had me guessing. Glad to know she is a roan afterall. May both of you have a wonderful day!


You get the best of both lol!


----------



## SADDLEBRED1959 (Apr 23, 2018)

Wow cool coat! Yes a seal brown roan she will change just give her a week lol


----------

