# collecting horse's head help? (eng. + wes.)



## Cheyennes mom (Aug 6, 2010)

hey peeps of HF!
So I'm having some trouble collecting Cheyenne's (my lease) head. Both english and western. In horse shows she's alright but I'd like to be able to do it at the barn too so that I can practice properly. 
My instructor (Cheyenne's owner) sometimes stops to watch me do it and she'll give me help but Cheyenne really respects her owner (well she respects me too just not in the same way) so she'll act so good with her around. Her owner calls it the seesaw what I'm supposed to do. How I use lots of leg to push her into my hands and then I bring in one rein then the other to pull in her head. Either she'll do it fine then pop it back up slowly or she'll throw her head up and down so that I can't get her to do it or she will just refuse to do it period. 
Any help? With the throwing head up and down too. I hate it when she does that and she does it forever. What do I do with that? Sometimes I'll smack her with the crop (not insanely but enough so that she'll stop and just go faster) but I have a feeling that's not what I can do in horse shows (acually I know that's what I can't do in shows) so what do I do with that.
Also something that she'll do is whenever I switch gaits she'll pop it up again. and she doesn't like doing it in the canter/lope either.
Pleeeeeeeaaaaasssssseee help me if you can!! Thanks so much!!!!


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

*headdesk*

Please do not "seesaw" on your poor horse's mouth. If it achieves anything it will be horse in a false frame without any real collection.

Collection comes from behind. Your hands are in charge of keeping a soft contact while you ride the horse up and in to the bridle. Your horse needs to come to the bit, you do not take the bit to her.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Cheyennes mom said:


> Her owner calls it the seesaw what I'm supposed to do.



The owner of this horse needs to learn to ride correctly.

Seesawing the 200% the VERY worst thing you can do.


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## Cheyennes mom (Aug 6, 2010)

soo....then... I don't like pull... as in tug if that's what you are thinking of... on her mouth. I more.... ugh I'm really failing with describing today. um.... well it's more of a squeeze of my hands. If I just push her forward all she'll do is go faster. She doesn't really seem to come to the bit. She runs and walks and moves with her nose out.
HowClever- What do you mean by riding up? I have a feeling that that might help me a bit.

Spyder: she can ride believe me- you haven't seen her. She just calls it seesawing because it's one then the other it's not like I'm killing my pony's mouth. I promise I would NEVER do anything to hurt that horse and neither would her owner.

Please tell me what I'm supposed to do instead of saying everything that I'm doing wrong. pwease. I appreciate it that your tellin me what I'm doing wrong but also please include what I should do. thx!!


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

Don't seesaw. Ever. Well, ok, if the horse bolts and you fear your own life then perhaps you may seesaw to regain control..

It's incredibly hard to describe IRL and near impossible on a forum.
First I'd need to see how you ride to know what to correct, and then I'll have to explain in a way that you know what I mean rather than think you know and yet miss that detail.. so I'l have to see if you got it right etc.

I'll try. What you need to do is to ride a lot of circles and figures, by this you can collect one hindleg at a time which is easier for the horse. When it's strong enough it will step under with both hindlegs equally and you get yourself a piaffe 
However it's most important how you ride the figures. First, make sure you don't yield in your side (i.e. dropping a shoulder or something). When you turn, don't just twist your waist, you need to get everything with you in the turn and still sit straight. First turn your head, let the shoulders and hands folow, your hips (_and since the horse is turning with you, it's outer side will be longer when it bends and your outside leg will move a tad back, which means your inside leg will be a tad in front of your outside when the horse bends_), make sure your outside knee is firmly to the horse, it's what's telling the horse to move the shoulder and turn, and your outside foot should be paralell to the horses side. The inside shouldn't stray away too much but rather gently drive the inside horse-hindleg forward and under you.

As for the reins, the outside rein should be stretched and in a light contact. The horse will drop the nose if it works right through the body, but you can help it by taking the inside rein out from the horses body and in again softly in a leading way, as if a rubber band was fastened between your hands. As soon as the horses nose drop, you stop.

Make sure the turns are good in both directions and don't ask for a drpped nose untill they constantly are good. Make sure you sit straight over the horse and use the right cues. If it doesn't work, check your own seat first, that's where most of the problems come from.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

If what you describe is how the owner rides then I'm sorry, but she doesn't know how to ride. HOWEVER its also possible she couldn't explain it correctly to you. Here is a thread on similar problem http://www.horseforum.com/english-riding/how-do-you-get-your-horse-85467/ I highly recommend to read. You can also do the search on "collection", "frame", and "head set": there are multiple threads in "Training", "English", and "Dressage" sections of the forum with lots of explanations and advices. 

BTW, you don't collect the _*head*_, you collect the _*horse*_. :wink:


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## Cheyennes mom (Aug 6, 2010)

Zab- wow you are a great describer I could never describe that stuff lol! Anyways, thanks! If it's okay I'd like to print that out (along with anything else from other people that I'd like to try) and try it step by step next time I go to the barn.

Kitten_Val- thanks I'll check out the thread and do a search 


I just realized that I think I'm saying everything completely wrong. lol like the title of the thread. What I meant was like...to arch the horse's neck and for her to give in to my hands and stuff if that even makes sense (as you can see I can't describe ANYTHING). But whatever I need to collect in lots of my shows and I'm not amazing at it-it's probably something I really need to work on along with extending without completely speeding up.
Did I say that right or are you guys telling me how to like arch the neck and I'm just a messed up person who doesn't know what she's talking about?  lol Either way... 
(I'm messing myself up so I'm going to shut up now)


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

We know what you're wanting to do - get a pretty arched neck and tucked in head? And you're not experienced enough to know how to use your seat and leg to ride a horse up into quiet hand, to achieve impulsion and roundness. So you are using your reins to essentially pull and annoy the horse to the point where she will put her head down to escape the pressure. See-sawing is not necessarily pulling the horse's face off, it is moving one side of the bit at a time, to slide it across the horse's mouth and wiggle its nose until the head drops. This does nothing. And you will get CANNED if you compete with the horse's head wiggling side to side. 
Pulling back on the reins simply pushes the hind legs further out behind the horse. You are riding entirely the wrong way around. If the horse's owner suggests that method as a way of getting the horse round, she/he needs serious lessons from someone who know's what they're doing. 

Read the thread posted above, it will explain. 

If you don't read it - just take this :

COLLECTION IS NOT AN ARCHED/PRETTY NECK/HEADSET. A HORSE THAT TRAVELS WITH ITS HEAD TUCKED IN AND NECK ARCHED, WITHOUT BEING RIDDEN FROM THE BACK END UP TO THE BRIDLE, IS TRAVELLING INCORRECTLY, ON THE FOREHAND AND WILL EVENTUALLY END UP DEVELOPING UNDERMUSCLE AND A VERY STIFF NECK AND BACK.


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## touchofsleep (Mar 9, 2011)

i'm going to create a thread about this because I have a problem with my horses leads but idk if it's the same kind of problem


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## olympustraining (May 5, 2011)

I AGREE A MILLION percent with NO SEE-SAWING! You will destroy a horses mouth. Collection all comes from behind and from your seat and leg. Your hands have very little do with it. Only use slight rein pressure to get them to accept contact and fall light into your hands. Putting the head down is very little in collection, the headset is the last thing you should look at in collection.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Folks, regarindg the see-sawing... We don't know what the owner said in 1st place. What I mean by that if you watch Jane's half-halt video the way she describes it is you capture on the outside rein while do light check-check-check (vibration) on inside. Of course it's no way a see-saw, but I can see the person with no experience can then re-phrase it as one. 

OP, this is the video I'm talking about


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

How about starting out with explaining collection?

Collection is when the horse lifts its back by making the topline (the line from the ears to the tail) longer. This starts out with tucking the pelvic and ends with a slight arch on the neck, lowering the poll and pushing the forehead forward ( rather than dropping the nose.) Try this to understand it, the principle this far is the same no matter if you're a horse, a person or a snake, really. First just tuck your chin in. Now instead try to stretch your neck out and look at your feet - without bending your back. Feel the differense and how this last move stretches through your back as well? This is the neck part of the horses move. The seesaw will just tuck the chin in.

This horse is not collected. He's heavy on the front, the nose pulled in, the neck short and he's just out of balance.









Here he's let forward and his balance improved. Not overly collected, but better 









This picture may look good, but notice how short his neck is? And how the front leg is under him rather than the hindleg? Despite no tension in the reins, he's just tucking it in.









Compare to this picture of the same horse: (and he's not uber collected here either, but you see how the back and overall frame is still better?)










But what really makes the back lift is when the horses tuck it's pelvic. Done so enough will stretch the topline so much that the horse has to raise the neck. 
To make the horse tuck the pelvic, you encourage it to put the hindlegs more under itself. You can ask it to arch the back with your seat and leg too.

So, when the horse has a long topline, you ask it to shift the weight back onto the haunches. Think of a jumping horse just as it's about to spring over an obstacle, still standing on the hindlegs and about to push off.. that's collection. Of course you can't ride a horse to stand like that all the time, the closest you get is the levade, correctly performed 



What happens when you start with the head? Well. The only way the head will lift the back of the horse is if you tie it to something heavy enough.. there is simply no chance that the weight of the head can pull up any other part of the horse, sothat' just a lost cause. What you need is as a first step to make the horse relax and stretch out. Pulling in the reins will hinder relaxation. A tight noseband will lock the jaws and hinder relaxation. Careful and gentle moves on the reins can ''open'' a tensed locked jaw and by that help relaxation in the jaw, which will help the horse to relax all over. This is if the horse gets stiff and braced you may gently ask it to soften. It works if the horse is thinking of something else, like being nervous or so. It doesn't help if the horse is braced in order to balance the rider or is in pain.
That's why it's your seat that collects the horse. Bending will help it put the hind end further under itself and to soften. Tucking the nose in on the other hand will make the horse brace against the hands. The head should hang relaxed on the poll, and the weight of it will then but the nose somewhere at the vertical without using contradicting musles that shortens the neck and with that - the important topline.

This is a collected horse, despite the nose being n front of the vertical:









So it's really not about the neck and nose.


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## olympustraining (May 5, 2011)

Zab said:


> How about starting out with explaining collection?
> 
> Collection is when the horse lifts its back by making the topline (the line from the ears to the tail) longer. This starts out with tucking the pelvic and ends with a slight arch on the neck, lowering the poll and pushing the forehead forward ( rather than dropping the nose.) Try this to understand it, the principle this far is the same no matter if you're a horse, a person or a snake, really. First just tuck your chin in. Now instead try to stretch your neck out and look at your feet - without bending your back. Feel the differense and how this last move stretches through your back as well? This is the neck part of the horses move. The seesaw will just tuck the chin in.
> 
> ...


This is such an excellent example! I am actually going to send the link to one of my students who is having a hard time with my explaination. Actually a lot of you have explained this so well it has given me ideas!


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## Cheyennes mom (Aug 6, 2010)

Kayty said:


> We know what you're wanting to do - get a pretty arched neck and tucked in head? And you're not experienced enough to know how to use your seat and leg to ride a horse up into quiet hand, to achieve impulsion and roundness. So you are using your reins to essentially pull and annoy the horse to the point where she will put her head down to escape the pressure. See-sawing is not necessarily pulling the horse's face off, it is moving one side of the bit at a time, to slide it across the horse's mouth and wiggle its nose until the head drops. This does nothing. And you will get CANNED if you compete with the horse's head wiggling side to side.
> Pulling back on the reins simply pushes the hind legs further out behind the horse. You are riding entirely the wrong way around. If the horse's owner suggests that method as a way of getting the horse round, she/he needs serious lessons from someone who know's what they're doing.
> 
> Read the thread posted above, it will explain.
> ...


yes. I started out going western and I hadn't worked too much on collecting or extending or anything. Cheyenne is probably pretty good at it- I've seen her owner ride her and she looked amazing. I guess it's just me.
I don't have to really do much at horse shows for some reason, she knows the drill and she's always really good for me. ( I just realized that I never mentioned what type of shows I do- I've been doing english and western pleasure, equitation, Discipline rail, on command classes and road hacks. That sorta stuff. sometimes theres showmanship too. Just thought I'd throw that out there) I'll post some pictures once my computer is hooked up (I'm on the laptop right now and I don't have pics. I'll see if I have some good ones somewhere on this website but anyways.
Also, I know that I'm the problem right? But I think that Cheyenne was trained wrong. I think she was rushed through training by her old owner. I can pick up multiple things that she doesn't do right. She can do everything-she's completely all around but I don't think her old owner who broke her took much time on anything. Whenever I push her forward all she does is go faster. I've been working on this a little bit with her- I had another thread somewhere about slowing the canter or something but anyways, any tips on how I can get her to stop...well, stopping? I guess that's a little bit on what this thread is about but whatever.
I'll see if I can find some pictures of me riding her. 


kitten_Val said:


> Folks, regarindg the see-sawing... We don't know what the owner said in 1st place. What I mean by that if you watch Jane's half-halt video the way she describes it is you capture on the outside rein while do light check-check-check (vibration) on inside. Of course it's no way a see-saw, but I can see the person with no experience can then re-phrase it as one.
> 
> OP, this is the video I'm talking about YouTube - Dressage Teacher Jane Savoie and The "Connecting Half Halt"


Okay, I watched half of that and I'll watch the rest later, but yeah thanks for posting that


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## Cheyennes mom (Aug 6, 2010)

Zab- okay yeah I can see the differences. The horses who aren't doing it right look really uncomfortable too. I'll jot down some notes for next time 

Quick question for anyone, will these techniques that you are telling me about work in western too? And also for riding with one hand in western? Thanks!!


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Sorry mate, but a horse running faster when you put your leg on is not necessarily a sign that the horse has been trained incorrectly, but is a very strong indication of rider error. 
You could get on an internationally competitive Grand Prix dressage horse, put your leg on and without keeping the horse together with your seat, it will just run itself onto the forehand. 

I do quite a bit of work training green horses for people, and almost all have been ridden on the forehand and allowed to run through the bridle. I can get on these horses and usually within a couple of minutes have them staying back to my seat and opening their stride rather than running onto the forehand. I have found that a horse that runs on is one of the easiest issues to correct, it just takes some tactful riding.


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## Cheyennes mom (Aug 6, 2010)

oh...*sigh* strike for me again. Well then, any tips on how I can stop her from doing that then? Thanks!


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

It's all about core strength. So as you put leg on to ask her to go forward, you need to contain your core muscles, keeping the rhythm with your seat.
Basically, it is the rider's job to keep the rhythm of the gait. So try singing something like Jingle Bells when you ride, and keep your body at that rhythm. The horse will follow your rhythm if you are able to maintain it. On a personal level, I have a terrible sense of rhythm and it took me YEARS to be able to establish my rhythm on a horse and keep it. I can now keep my rhythm even while the horse is having a crack up about something, and have found that being able to maintain this rhythm in my riding has allowed me to settle horses down far more quickly, than allowing the horse to decide the rhythm and letting yourself get sucked into following their rhythm rather than the one that you have set.


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## Cheyennes mom (Aug 6, 2010)

oh okay that makes sense I think. So, like, would my speed when I'm posting make a difference? Like, you're supposed to post with the horse's beat and I got that a long time ago, but what if I started posting slower while she was trotting too fast? Would she wait for me to correct myself, or would she slow down the the speed which I'm posting by? Or would she just ignore it and not even care?


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Yes, so it's the speed of your posting that will make a difference here - in any gait it is effective. Walk, rising trot, sitting trot and canter... the rhythm and tempo that you allow your seat to go forward, is the rhythm and tempo that the horse should travel at. Obviously the horse needs to be sensitive to the leg, and willing to give a forward reaction as soon as you put your leg on. 

As your posting, just like you've said, slow your posting a little. Hold your core muscles, and just wait. Wait until she comes back to your speed, rather than hers. It's easier to just let the horse dictate the rhythm and tempo when we ride, but this is how we end up with horse's on the forehand and rushing. It's our job to dictate rhythm and tempo. 
Just be patient with her, it may take her a little while to come back to you when she's used to be allowed to run on. But if you just hold your core, maintain your rhythm, she'll come back to you.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Kayty said:


> So try singing something like Jingle Bells when you ride, and keep your body at that rhythm.


I usually count on speed I want to go. Works best for me. Lol!


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## olympustraining (May 5, 2011)

You can also use a metronome - you and the horse will naturally go into sync with it.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Metronomes are great if you can afford one loud enough to hear across a 60x20 arena while you're riding! 
Otherwise ride to music that has the same tempo that you want to be riding at. Much more fun that listening to a metronome for 40mins.


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## Cheyennes mom (Aug 6, 2010)

That sounds like a great idea! The metronome/music thing I mean. Think I could bring my ipod and only use one earpiece thingy? There's only an outdoor arena there and it's pretty far from the barn so there wouldn't be a plug that I could plug in a cd player or anything into. I'll make a 'riding' playlist


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

This page should help you pick music

Dressage Freestyle Music Downloads

It's not just chucking together a list of your favourite songs, each pace has a different tempo so you need to have music to match the tempo.


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## Cheyennes mom (Aug 6, 2010)

okay I'll look at that. Going to the barn today. Not sure if I'm gonna ride because it's not very nice out and if the arena is gross Cheyenne won't wanna do anything really so hopefully it's okay... if it is then I'll try some of these things that you suggested 

My next show is next Saturday (May 14th). 
On Cheyenne's profile thing in my barn, there's one picture near the bottom (I think it's the last one) and it's of 2 horses and riders at a horse show. It's the Road Hack class and me and Cheyenne are the ones in the front. Click on it and it'll go bigger. I know I have a bit of a chair seat there, and I need to raise my hands up a bit. Do we look okay there otherwise?


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

Cheyennes mom said:


> oh okay that makes sense I think. So, like, would my speed when I'm posting make a difference? Like, you're supposed to post with the horse's beat and I got that a long time ago, but what if I started posting slower while she was trotting too fast? Would she wait for me to correct myself, or would she slow down the the speed which I'm posting by? Or would she just ignore it and not even care?


_To answer this question, yes you can change the horses pace by how fast you post. _

_I can go around on loose reins and have the horse I ride slow down or speed up if I slow down or speed up my posting._


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## Cheyennes mom (Aug 6, 2010)

okay thanks 

So yesterday I went western, but I collected her sometimes and I also worked on like slowing her down and keeping a steady pace instead of her rampaging on and stuff


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

There have been some wonderful explanations of collection and how to differentiate it from a head pulled in and a horse running on the forehand. Thankyou guys. And it is all true, what you said. But what is going through my mind is that the OP may not be anywhere near the level of riding where in she can influence the horse in the way described. I wonder if it wouldn't be better to try to tailor the advice to the OP better. Just saying things like "you need to ride from back to front" and other things , which though true, are much easier to say than to do, doesnt' really give her a tangeable and graspable starting point.

Kayty made a very practicle post telling the OP to use song or music rythm to keep a "count" internally so that the OP can use her core to hold the horse to a set trot rythm. THIS is the kind of advice that is graspable by the person at Cheyennes place in the spectrum of riding experience. There is no way she can have all the pieces to achieve anything near what is shown in the photos posted as examples. And while it is a worthy long distance goal, she needs specific, step by step guidance.

The OP has been exceedingly open to guidance and willing to try anything. I'd give her a high five or a knuckle bump , if I could.

I would also like to say that to tell people that collection happens, just happens , when you ride the horse from back to front is a bit unreal. To ride it from back to front means you have to have a a front in place. The reins have to be connected to the bit for the horse to be brought to the bit. Both sides are part of the equation. Not just the back, but the front is essential too.

True, that one should not think that having a horse drop his nose back off the bit IS collection. But I see nothing wrong with helping a student learn to create a connection with the horse via the bit. 
The rider first learns how to follow the horse's head/mouth . Then the rider learns how to encourage the horse to move the bit down and forward, still following with her hands. Then, the rider works on slowly lifting the bit while continuing to encourage the horse to step under and forward. Then, over time, the rider sets the limit, and the hrose comes to it and stays there, his energy "bouncing off of and being recycled " by the limit set by the bit. 

NO, you don't "see-saw" the reins, but you may use some "tickling" or gentle "squeezing" or "milking" of the reins to ask the horse to meet the bit, and perhaps bring the bit down and forward. Better than doing it exactly alternating is to keep one rein (the outside) quieter and steadier, while "asking" with the inside. AND when the horse gives, you stop asking and offer her a quiet , steady hand that doesnt' move the bit around. This encourages the horse to stay with the steady bit. It might only last for a few seconds but you work at getting it to be longer and longer.

YOU, the rider, have to be able to move well enough with the horse that you are not bumping on the horse's back or mouth when doing any of this. That's why when learning how to ride, you don't worry AT ALL about headset or collection until you have a good enough seat to be able to be quiet in the seat. Once you are able to be quiet in the seat, THEN you can start holding the horse slower and such with your seat, just as Kayty explained. it is not somethign a beginner can do, not that Cheyenne is a begginner.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

tinyliny said:


> Just saying things like "you need to ride from back to front" and other things , which though true, are much easier to say than to do, doesnt' really give her a tangeable and graspable starting point.


That's exactly why I always advocate for the trainer. Advises on internet are great, but unless someone is teaching you and explaining you what and how they are not always very helpful (in my personal experience).


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## Cheyennes mom (Aug 6, 2010)

thanks tinyliny for everything you said there  I'll keep all this in mind 


So I rode Cheyenne yesterday with her owner who was riding the horse she'll be riding in the show. My ride was amazing!! I thought of all the things I could remember from this thread and I even brought my ipod and listened to it through one ear. That made it WAY easier to keep a steady pace and Shey-Shey's owner loved the idea. She also reminded me to keep my hands up (which I realize I was NOT doing- they were almost on my knees!!) and to bend my elbows more which helped as well  And she told me the stuff that was going to go on at the show and we had a great ride I was SO pleased with Cheyenne- by the end of the ride she was collecting and had a very nice headset and I hardly even had to ask her! It was awesome- I had given her her head for a little while so that she could walk out a bit and then right when I picked up my reins and squeezed gently with my legs she immediately repositioned her head and collected and it was SO awesome! I got lots of good comments from her owner! I can't even say how happy I was when I went home.  

I went again today and didn't have as good a ride because Cheyenne was quite tired from our long ride yesterday, but I did what I could with the lazy horse and I can't say that it was bad and useless, I just worked on transitions and keeping her head down between them. And then after I asked her owner if she could help me with my showmanship (there's a western showmanship class at the next show on saturday) and we worked on that lots and got pretty good at it except that I tripped on everything- my boots, my laces, my horse (yes, my horse) lol clumsy me  

Well, thought I'd give you guys an update! I think we're going to do pretty well at this show!!


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## olympustraining (May 5, 2011)

That's awesome to hear that everything here was useful!  Keep up the good work!


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## teamkrissynmissy (May 13, 2011)

have you tryed using a marten-gale?


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

_I don't believe that Cheyenne needs a martingale teamkrissy. Cheyenne is wanting to get a horse to willingly accept the bit, and have the horse "set" her head properly from back to front. A martingale would not help with this._


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## Cheyennes mom (Aug 6, 2010)

well she had her head in nice some of the time at the show yesterday. She thought she was a racehorse though so she was speeding around the arena. We were up againsed people on million dollar horses who were trained for that kinda stuff. Cheyenne wasn't. So that kinda stunk too but other than that it was fun and Cheyenne did pretty good overall


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Other horses were trained for it - so why not train Cheyenne for it if thats what you want to do with her? 
In dressage, there are very expensive warmbloods all over the place, and you know what? I beat some of the top warmbloods in the state with the top riders on board, on a little QHxappy I was working with a few years ago.
Don't ever compare yourself and your horse to your competitors and make excuses for your performance. Otherwise you'll just feel down about yourself and your horse and you will never come up to the standard of other competitors.


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## Cheyennes mom (Aug 6, 2010)

well, I don't really know how to train horses... I do my best to teach them little things but... Also, that's not all that I wanna do with her. She's also a gymkhana pony. I took her in one for my first time today and she did great! 
It was funny, at the gymkhana today she had her head down and pretty almost the whole time when we weren't in the ring lol so she does it NOW. AFTER the show is finnished lol thanks a lot!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Horses are always higher at the show than at home, but it sounds really exciting that you got the "feel" for what you want. Once you get that feel, and you start to get to know HOW to replicate it more and more often, then you have made the step up to the next plateau. Congrats!


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

I wonder, if maybe she was better at the gymkhana, than the show, because you as her rider, was more nervous/tense at the show in a desire to do well particularly in front of the 'show crowd'? 
It goes back to my above comment - don't allow yourself to compare yourself to the others out there. Do it for you, and be the best that you can be. There is no use comparing ourselves to others, particularly in terms of material goods. Being jealous because someone has a $100 000 imported warmblood and dedicates their entire life to riding and training as a profession, is competing against me, is not going to do anyone any good. 

I'm very glad to hear that you both had a good time, and I think the more you go out and feel able to change your attitude to other competitors and what they have, the better you will go as a team. I'd love to see some photos of you two!


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## Cheyennes mom (Aug 6, 2010)

Thanks tinyliny 

Kayty- hmm...maybe that was it.. Not sure. There's an Open Ride program twice a week where they do shows and gymkhanas and Cheyenne's owner goes there and invited me to come sometime. I think that it would be good to get out there more so that I can ride in there and Cheyenne could get used to being in there for multiple reasons and then she can listen for my commands better? It would also give me the chance to get to know more people who come to the shows and gymkhanas and for Cheyenne to get used to being around lots of other horses and stuff. I mean she's plenty used to other horses, I mean she's 24, but like... so that she's not getting SO hot whenever she's in the arena. Maybe she'll calm down and let me take the bit if we go there more often? I don't know, tell me what you think 

Yes I'll get some pics up of the last show soon  In the meantime, there are pics of us in my barn... Most are just of her, but there are some in there. One near the bottom is us at our...3rd show together I think.


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## Cheyennes mom (Aug 6, 2010)

oh yeah forgot to mention that there are also some pics of my first show on there too. They are more in the middle and they are outside. The most recent picture is the last one and it's indoors.


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## Cheyennes mom (Aug 6, 2010)

I know this is a really old thread but i thought I'd let you guys know how the collection is coming, I think I finally got it mostly!!




























those were taken at yesterday's show  what do you think?


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