# Body is breaking down and doctor isn't helping the matter any. *Vent*



## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

I just need somewhere to vent because everything has just compiled into one big mess and it seems that the people who are around me for this (which don't get me wrong, I'm entirely grateful to) are just desensitized to it, if that makes any sense at all. 

I went and saw my knee surgeon about my knee and had a not so pleasant conversation with him. When I first broke it he said riding might be out of the question, then I had surgery and he said that I could definitely return to riding around the same time as I returned to driving. Well, yesterday he seemingly had a revelation about riding. I asked him when I could attempt riding again (as I'm going to be attempting driving soon) and assured him that I wasn't going to go all out for a while but just work on getting on and off, just being given a pony ride on my horse that I know won't do anything and work at getting my body back into its routine. He got very silent and told me "Wait a little longer". So I was game, and was trusting his judgement because after all- he's the surgeon. Then we got to talking about how long I was standing on it (per his instructions) and moving on it as exercise (keeping in mind that I'd asked him about grooming my horse and he'd given me the go ahead because it would get my body and mind back into it's normal routine of exercise). He asked if I was still grooming my horse and I said yes, and then the guy had a little bit of a heart attack on me. 

He went into this lecture on how I shouldn't be doing anything with horses, because "I won't be able to ride/work like I used to". I asked him what he meant (trying to stay calm) and assured him that I knew it would take time, effort, and adapting because it's not going to be the same again, but I was prepared for it (then reminded him in his words that the bone had been without blood supply for three weeks, and we wouldn't even know for two years whether or not it was alive until I actually put it through my regular exercise). Well, he went off on his tangent because my knee shouldn't have broken like it had (with his deduction it was a 1/100 chance it happened like that) and that it probably will dislocate and/or re-break when I ride or do anything with the horses for the rest of my life. He said that one tug of a horse on the lead rope in ten years could damage it again. Then he said I should take up a different sport like (and I kid you not): "Rock climbing, or soccer, maybe dance". These sports suggestions are coming from a guy who doesn't ride and told me that any running, or climbing, or joint heavy exercise would be out of the question. 

I lost it then. I know I shouldn't have but I told him that I supposed we'd be seeing a lot of each other until he retired then, because I was not giving up my horses, my career and my passion. My mom chimed in and asked about me being a large animal vet. 

In ten seconds he managed to make me doubt my capabilities of being an equine vet. He said I should switch my major and find a different school, if I was smart enough for vet school then I was probably smart enough for med school and really "what's the difference?". I honestly think what upsets me the most was that all these negative situations and don'ts were things that he assured us AFTER the surgery we're in the past and no worries. Everything looked better then he could have imagined considering how it went. Being a vet, was no problem, and neither was working the horses again in time. That's why I went with him instead of another surgeon, he was recommended at being very good at getting people's knees (especially young adults 18 to 30) who did very physical work back to near 100%. Now all of a sudden all the things that he assured me were fine aren't? I get prepare for the worst, but when it's a month or two later, you have no current xrays I consider your opinions a little sketchy, especially when you only see me once a month and refuse to tell me what will happen scientifically (and calmly) and what to do should this happen again (so I don't make the same mistakes that I did)

I think what hurt me the most was my mom trying to assure me that it was alright if I wanted to drop horses. She wouldn't sell ours and we could still go see them, and don't worry about the 10,000 I sunk into vet school already this year because it was still early and I could switch when I went back. I exploded. Needless to say I'm sure that the receptionist was surprised that someone with a broken/fixed leg and a bad back as well as being SEVERELY difficeint in vitamin D, E, and C and lethargic because of it could raise such a fuss. 

Anyhow, the physical therapy place called (and I chose one locally because I wanted the surgeon to be able to see it quickly should something go wrong) and as we were talking and scheduling they asked about my riding. I told them that regardless of what the doctor had passed on I was going to be returning and they were surprised. The woman said that they would recommend the mounting and dismounting to help them loosen the muscles and scar tissue. That just confused me even more. Why would the surgeon be adamantly against riding/working and the P.T all for it? The P.T was brought in around the same time as my surgery because how it broke was odd and the surgeon wanted her in on it from the beginning to give input and be prepared. 

I just feel lost and confused now. I had called my chiropractor to see if she knew any spine doctors (other than chiropractic) who would look at my spine and give another opinion to hers, and she had given me several doctors who said they would see me to consult. She's been amazing trying to help me put my body back in order. I haven't even contacted any of them because I suppose on one level I'm afraid of the verdict and that it really will kill any and all hope of riding/being a vet. My mom and dad keep dropping hints about what the doctor said and that "it's okay to change", but this is all I've ever known. I've only ever wanted to be around horses, I've only ever wanted to be a vet and I've never wanted anything else. My mom asked about the spine doctor and I told her I was putting it off because I'm already in debt to the insurance companies due to my knee and I won't add to her financial stress. Whenever I go out to the barn (which is becoming more frequently), my mom hovers excessively and is always telling me to be careful, Do X, Y, Z and then quit, don't tack up the horse when she rides, etc. It's really getting on my nerves because while I completely understand where she's coming from, when my spine was acting up (well before now) and I was told to take it easy none of these things seemed to apply, I shouldn't let something like that "change me" and it wasn't the end of horses and my career.... there seems to be a double standard with my knee. 

I feel like at 18 years old my body's falling apart. I know I didn't take the absolute best care of my body (but then again who does?), and put it through the ringer with the horses and genetics dealt a cruel blow to a degree, but I tried my best. I don't feel like my parents (and some others) understand that no matter what I'm going to return to horses and try my best to be a vet and make farm calls because doing anything else would kill me inside. I'm sorry for the venting, sometimes I just need to get things off of my chest and my family isn't being a very good support system at the moment (though I do realize the stress and all that they've done for me, I just need it a little more). I'm always so glad that it wasn't any worse and that I'm doing okay health wise (I could be doing worse) I don't want to seem spoiled or ungrateful because there's always many others who have it worse. So sorry for the venting.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Did you point blank ask him WHY he has totally done a 180 on you with regard to horses? That would be my first question. He at least owes you a reason for his thoughts. He may, after all HAVE a legitimate reason, then again, he may not. But you will not know unless you ask. 

You also need to deal with your back issue with an MD. I have no idea what your issues are, but I will tell you that realistically, at your age you may well be headed for disaster if you continue to ride. It all depends on what your issues are, and how precarious your joints (back especially) are. You do not want to end up in a wheelchair. However-listen to what the MD's say, ASK questions. Ask if there is some sort of brace to support your back/knee that would help support/protect it and enable you to ride. As an Ortho nurse who rides, I know that there are WAY too many MD's over the years that have not been in favor of me riding.....especially jumping......one even asked me (after a fall) if I had even heard of Christopher Reeve?:shock: I have always let them know in no uncertain terms that I will ride, period. It is their job to help me do that. However-I have stopped jumping, gone to western, and if, at any point my back gets to a point where I am endangering my mobility just by riding-it will have to stop. THere ARE other things in life.......believe me.


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

I asked him but he just keeps repeating: It could or will dislocate or break again brace or no brace. No matter how calmly or bluntly I tried to put it he won't state why he thinks it and why now of all times (I know I sound far from calm but when he first told me riding was possibly out of the question and said it bluntly and factually I was okay with it.) I'm no expert, and I'm far from being the smartest person but in my mind that's not scientific enough. I want evidence and support for this one. I think I'd take it a lot better if he'd state why he thinks what he does. I get the feeling that he treats me like a child (which I understand because I'm FAR from done growing and I am being childish about some things... okay maybe a lot lol) but I've always tried to be clear with him that I prefer logical, cold scientific facts. I'd rather know and work through it than be spun around the bush and end up confused and worried because someone thought to "spare me". 

I needed that slap to the face about the spine! Thank you. You're right. I need to go see that doctor.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

You could still become a vet, just do small animals. They need good care too.
It's an incredibly demanding job to be a large animal vet.
Driving doesn't sound so bad if that would be your safest option. And one can easily scale down the size of the horse for that if need be. 
I'm sorry you are going through this at such a young age. It sounds like you just have to take it a step at a time and see how it goes.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

You are absolutely right. You need a clear understanding of WHY. If he led you to believe something different prior to the surgery than what he is saying now, I would be asking him what is different? What has changed? 

Something like this:
"Dr. XXX, Prior to my surgery, you told me (if he did, and it is not you hearing what you wanted to hear.....;-)) that I would be able to return to riding. Now you are telling me I can't, in fact, you are suggesting that I give up all horses, including what I have dreamed of as a profession all of my life. Why have you changed your mind? What is different now than before? I can appreciate your concern, but I really need a clear understanding of the basis of your decision. After all, I could get hurt tripping on a curb crossing the street, and cannot live my life in fear."

That is just an example-of course, I am not you, but you deserve an explanation.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

What a tool.

I wish you a speedy recovery, and hope that everything turns out well. Keep us posted!!


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

First off, you need a good sports medicine doctor. Really. Those guys "get" what drives horse people, and runners, and bicyclist, and, and, and. They understand that we are willing to go through some pain to get to where we want to be to achieve our goals, including whatever meds, physical therapy and exercises they prescribe. IME, "normal" docs, not so much. They also understand how simply quitting is just completely unrealistic. Last, they have a much better idea of what someone's real limitations might be (because their patients push them regularly), and how to get as much return to normal function and strength as possible without compromising healing or later health. They'll also get it if you overdo it and keep helping you rather than trying to tell you not to be you.

Second, your surgeon is an ***. Many of them are. Many of them are very skilled at doing the surgery part and complete nincompoops when it comes to the aftercare and client/patient interaction parts of the job, and true to the stereotype, think they are the end all, be all when it comes to knowledge. They're not. Get a new doctor. Get some second opinions, especially because he can't or won't explain things to you in a way that is easily understood. Somehow I think that you're not going to get much 'good' out of it, even if you keep going to this guy. Trust, once lost, is hard to regain.

ETA: Believe it or not, being a small animal vet is still quite hard on your knees and back. Not as hard as being a equine vet, but still not cushy. All the up/down/wrestling with patients and then standing in surgery hurts.


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

1.) How long ago was your injury?
2.) was it caused by a horse?

Now I will tell you this:

You are not the only one going through this, and you won't be the last. By 18, I was told I had the body of a 55 year old foundry worker. I've ignored that for 15 years. And I'm paying for it now.

My back is a mess, showmanship & halter classes are permanently out of the question (not that I'm complaining). Training horses may be out the window as well, at least starting them may be. I now have to get a nerve block to get up or function. (The chiro, reluctantly agrees that it's come to that point).

I basically blew my ankle up this spring BY WALKING!!! The surgeon, one of the highest rated in the Midwest, told me I'd be back on a horse in 10 weeks. His wife rides, so I believed him. It's 26 weeks later, and having my feet in the stirrups can still bring me to tears. And that's saying something, it takes a lot for me to recognize that much pain.

After several consults with him, my PT, and an podiatrist my choices are 1.) quit riding or 2.) re-learn how to ride to accommodate my beat up body.

Take it from someone who's been there, written the book, and picked apart at medical colleges. You can ignore them, but YOU WILL PAY FOR IT LATER. Your best bet is to find a trainer who is willing to meet with them, and discuss ways to teach you how to ride & be around horses that will minimize the risk.


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Franknbeans I did actually wonder if I was hallucinating when I talked to him (due to the pills the decided to put me on) but no my mom was there when he said it. Trust me though it'd be much more easy on me if that was the case! ;-) 

I'm moving out soon and I'm told that there's a good sports medicine place five minuets from my new home and they have a branch on campus so I'm going to check them out soon. 

busysmurf The back incident happened about two or three years ago. I have an exceptionally high pain tolerance (one that my doctors still don't believe exists) and didn't realize anything was wrong till on a lark I went to a chiropractor and the xrays were taken. I hadn't been to a doctor doctor because A) I'm stupid and B) I didn't have the money and figured, well, let me try chiropractic first (though I'm skeptical as to if it actually works). The knee injury happened about five months ago..... as a result of lifting a hay bale and then falling to the floor of the hay loft.  we still don't know how long I've been vitamin deficient... I appreciate the encouraging story. And I really don't want to come across as ungrateful or selfish, or ignorant that others have it way worse and deal with it better than I am!  

To everyone else thank you for the advice, and kind words I really do appreciate it.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Doctors and other professionals are there to help you, but you are the decision maker in your life. You have to learn, and I know it's difficult, to ask them questions, straight out, use the How, Why, What Where starters to your questions

Why do you say I can't ride?
What are the consequences if I do
What are the precautions I can take 

etc etc, very direct questions that need direct answers. Once you have information then you can make an informed decision as to your health, and your lifestyle. I would love to know why this Doc thinks that soccer is safer than riding. When I was a manager in a call centre we always had lads off because of knee issues caused by soccer playing, rarely had horse riding injuries.

When it comes to it though, you have to decide if you live a long safe and maybe boring life, if you ignore everyone and carry on as before and accept in new risks. I think most of us take the kind of middle ground, we have saner, safer horses, and do more sensible things with them.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I'd bet money on it he either knows nothing about your equine activities, or got a bad scare when riding a horse. Doctors seem to project this on their patients. A survey was done of various doctors regarding the sporting activities pregnant women shouldn't do and each was a reflection of what the doctor couldn't do.


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## DimSum (Mar 28, 2012)

Get a second opinion from a sports orthopod. It may be that your knee will never be as functional as you like, or it could be your surgeon isn't up on the latest and greatest. As far as the differing opinions between PT and the Doc, that's quite normal. I'm not knocking PTs, they got me walking again but quite often they don't understand the extent of the original injury.

All that having been said, if the second opinion mirrors the first you may have to change your path in life. I know that seems harsh, but trust me (as I pop Advil like candy) no matter how much you seem to want to do something it is not worth limping forever or worse limiting your mobility for the rest of your life.


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## totalfreedom (Nov 23, 2009)

I'll tell ya why he sold you the world pre-surgery, on your potential recovery post surgery.......he didn't have your money yet. :evil: Now that you've paid him, he'll tell you what he really thinks.

I'm going to offer a suggestion on some stuff for you to study. But before I do, I want to say, that you will likely encounter people with zero knowledge, and absolutely no experience on the subject, who may try to convince you that it's not worth spending any time researching this area. But just keep this in mind, those people have ZERO experience, so is it worth taking their advice.?

It's really simple too. The foods we put into our bodies will build them and repair them or do the exact opposite. That's the simple bit. The difficult part for some people is taking that leap of faith to experience it, and letting go of everything else. But I'm going to tell you exactly what your doctor won't....your body has an amazing ability to heal. Especially at your age, you have the potential to see dramatic changes for the better.

Look into Arnold Ehret, Dr. Robert Morse, Loren Lockman, Dr. Douglas Graham.....for starters. There's so many more, but IMO these few will keep you busy enough and give you the knowledge you need to begin.

Here's a short story from one of Dr. Morse's patients. This man was in a car wreck something like ,15 years?, before he met Dr. Morse. During the wreck his right femur was broken quite severely and it never healed properly. It actually fused back together at a 30 degree angle. Well fast forward 15 years to when he met Dr. Morse....10 months into following Dr. Morse's suggestions the femur straightened out.

Simple story, but this type of thing, "actual healing", is very common to people who choose this path.

One more thing I am going to suggest you look into is an herb called, comfrey, it's aptly dubbed, knit bone, and with good reason.  Even without changing your eating lifestyle, I imagine you will see significant improvement with this herb, if you do the research on it you will see why I say this.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Here we go again. Total-has it occurred to you that you do not know the OP, her full medical history, or the physician you are bad mouthing? You have no right to question his motives. None at all. The OP has said she went to him specifically because he was highly recommended for her particular issue. I may be mistaken, but I believe you and I have had this"discussion" before. I find you and your advice irresponsible on an internet forum.


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## totalfreedom (Nov 23, 2009)

franknbeans - When you gain the knowledge backed up by the experience of the real healing of the human body, then we can have a constructive discussion. Until you choose to do so, you're only giving your opinion on a subject you have ZERO experience with. Gain some experience and or knowledge of watching people with all sorts of various ailments have real healing of their bodies when they choose to nutrition and cleansing and you'll see why I'm beginning to sound like a broken record.

But to continue to troll me and tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about when you have never seen someone heal through proper nutrition and cleansing, while choosing a completely different path than the one you are familiar with, is quite....insane. How do you know that what I'm suggesting has no bearing when it's something you have no experience with. Just because you learned something along one path doesn't mean you know everything about the subject at hand, "healing", when it is along a completely different path than the one you chose.

Let food be thy medicine, and medicine be thy food. - Hippocrates
Also, refer to my signature quote below. :lol:


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

TF-I choose things scientifically based PROVEN through REAL research. By that I mean credible research at MAJOR centers with legitimate sample sizes, etc. 

I also will not be badmouthing an MD I know absolutely NOTHING about, saying, as you did, that he only wanted OP's $$. Undermining the relationship between a patient and and MD neither of whom you know at all is irresponsible.

I am not a troll, but a professional, with a degree and a license to back it up, as well as 30+ years of experience, much in orthopedics, so don't accuse me of not having knowledge. You and I just happen to be on some of the same threads.....if I wanted to "troll" you , I would be commenting on your every post. I am not, nor do I have that much time to waste. 

I do not discard all alternative medicine at all-but it is not the be all and end all to EVERY issue imaginable. THAT is the sticking point I have with you. It can be very effective when used correctly in some case, and as an adjunct to conventional medicine.

I have better things to do that to follow your every move. But when you and I happen upon each other, I will guarantee that I will call you on your "my way is the only way and it will save you from everything" mantra you seem to spew on every health thread around here.

Oh-and I did just look up the people you recommended......one WAS an MD, whose license has been revoked, and he now practices in central America..... one died in 1922 (we have come a long way since then).....do i need to go on??....Again-SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH. Not stories.


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Thank you for your advice total freedom I do appreciate it (surgeon comment aside, because if I really thought he was after only my money I wouldn't have gone to him reputation or no; and though I might be mad at him it doesn't stop me from realizing that he's done a lot to get me to where I am now, and respecting that.... I'm not an easy patient to deal with :lol. I do believe in the body's propensity to heal itself to an extent, but as for the dietary changes I'm not sure if those would work (or that I'm brave enough to try.... last thing I need right now is to accidentally poison myself! lol). I can't explain it and do it justice (so forgive me if I butcher it), but the part of my knee that broke is the patella, the entire chunk of bone ripped free from the ligament with no leftover 'connection point' and had to be retrieved and screwed into the actual ligament. From my understanding we're basically trying to reconnect it to the tissue/blood supply and get it to regrow (which from my understanding we had an advantage because my growth plates were still in business and not quitting yet so we were getting extra help). So I don't know if something to help fix bone would be the same as something that would need to fix blood flow, regrowth/connection, as the bone and ligaments were undamaged (shocking considering that I walked about a mile, climbed, and was bending my knee without a knee cap....). 

I do weigh heavily on scientific research and trials though so I'm skeptical I'll say it now. I'm gonna agree with franknbeans on the whole alternative medicine is not an end all be all. I'll be sure to look into it though to understand it better, as for experimenting on myself, right now I'm gonna draw the line from alternative medicine at my cat experiment.  Thank you for the responses they are cheering me up/helping me.


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

totalfreedom said:


> franknbeans - When you gain the knowledge backed up by the experience of the real healing of the human body, then we can have a constructive discussion. Until you choose to do so, you're only giving your opinion on a subject you have ZERO experience with. Gain some experience and or knowledge of watching people with all sorts of various ailments have real healing of their bodies when they choose to nutrition and cleansing and you'll see why I'm beginning to sound like a broken record.
> 
> But to continue to troll me and tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about when you have never seen someone heal through proper nutrition and cleansing, while choosing a completely different path than the one you are familiar with, is quite....insane. How do you know that what I'm suggesting has no bearing when it's something you have no experience with. Just because you learned something along one path doesn't mean you know everything about the subject at hand, "healing", when it is along a completely different path than the one you chose.
> 
> ...


TF, I have only read your posts on this thread, but obviously you are very into holistic medicine. And after reading your posts, I wouldn't be surprised you are a former teacher of mine. 

I AM someone who HAS studied holistic healing and medicine. And I am here to say I agree with Frank 110%. Yes, diet can AIDE in healing. But when you are "built wrong" you are simply "built wrong". PERIOD. I have seen first hand the damage & pain that a strictly holistic approach to healing can cause, and it pi**es me of to no end when ppl have the mentality you are projecting. There is a difference between "ABC worked for me, maybe talk to your Dr." and "the ONLY way to get better is xyz".



In the case of the OP, sure a healthy diet will help, but the thought that cleansing & such are the only things that can promote true healing is wrong.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Lets agree that a good diet does help the body to be strong and healthy, eating the right stuff provides all the fuel that the body needs to self repair. It is also true that the body is awesome at doing repairs, that is certainly true.

Modern medicine is also great at helping fix stuff, and probably the best outcomes are when the patient and the doctor work together using the best of tradition and modern science.


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## amp23 (Jan 6, 2011)

OP, I can't give you any advice or such on your issues, I have some of my own that need fixing too  I just wanted to wish you good luck!


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Good luck to you too amp23! Thank you!


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## totalfreedom (Nov 23, 2009)

Yeah I'll admit I probably coulda sugar coated to surgeon comment. LOL. But I've seen and read so much of people being taken advantage of, from the allopathic community that I tend not to be so kind in those regards. And it is unfair of me to say such things to imply it to all off the people in that community. But I get tired of seeing people continue to get sicker and poorer from it so......I tend to leave the sugar out of it.

franknbeans - I wasn't implying you had zero knowledge whatsoever. I was just saying that it sounds that you have never experienced nor have any knowledge from what I speak of. If you did, you would be astounded at what the human body is capable of doing. Teeth regrowing, limbs straightening, cavities healed, teeth pushing amalgams out and rebuilding, scar tissue going away, tumors dissolving, organs rebuilding, bones which have been broken for years finally healing fully, people in wheelchairs who were paralyzed finally walking. It just goes on and on. Can you say that you've seen the same via medication? And it's not fair to cite alleviation for a few years to only need more medication or surgery, but actual healing. And can you say that you've seen it happen again and again for thousands upon thousands of people. Day in and day out?

Just wondering...do you know who funds those scientific studies??? Those studies cost tens of millions of dollars, so it's quite apparent that it's someone with something to gain. And it's been revealed, that many times those studies are fudged so they can sell their products. Commercials on tv are showing the after effects of this. To me the real proof is when the person doing the study has nothing to gain. How about the thousands of people speaking up of their healing when they changed their eating habits. I suppose that can't qualify as, "scientific proof", because no one can make enormous amounts of profit from it.

busysmurf - Nope, never was anyone's teacher, nor would I want to be. That's why I suggest places to begin studying, because IMO, if someone isn't willing to figure out how to take control of their own body then....well, it's their body they have to deal with the pain. And not all holistic ways are the same either, that's for dang sure. So to lump what I'm suggesting to be researched with everything else out there is unfair to it. And not all practitioners fully understand how damaging it can be if the process is rushed. There's a reason why they have clinics for drug addicts to help them kick their habit. If they detox them too quickly they can get very sick or worse. Same thing happens when cleansing a very diseased toxic body to bring it to a place of healing.

I'm not saying it's the only way either, at least I hope I didn't say it's the only way....nope, didn't. There are definitely others, but the ones I know of involve letting go of even larger beliefs than ones such as food or medication. But I'm speaking of actual healing, not just alleviation.

Basically after all of this quibbling all that I was really trying to say is.....
Incitatus32 - your body can heal. It has an absolutely amazing potential for self healing, even if what your doctor is saying sounds grim. Your body is much smarter than doctors, and it's been shown that you can heal people through belief and the way you talk to them alone. Simply saying positive things, "IMO, all doctors need a course on learning this in their schooling", will give the patient the positive feeling that they are getting better. And it's been shown that this alone can has an enormous positive impact upon the health of the patient. And when this is combined with eating healthier it literally renders doctors speechless at the rapid recovery of their patients. Some of the stories I've heard of where people had broken bones are quite comical to the reaction the doctor had.


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

I just read in a women's magazine how a group who were told that their daily routine was burning a lot of calories actually lost weight, while a second group who did the same routine wasn't told that, & lost no weight!


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Total-I am done discussing it with you, since I am not going to allow the entire thread to be hijacked. That is not fair to the OP. I do not owe you any explanations-I have science to back me up, and yes, people make $$ off of the studies by developing new therapies, etc. Do you honestly think the folks you follow do it out of the goodness of their heart?

Keep us informed, OP-we are hoping for the best for you, but please make informed decisions. ;-)


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## DimSum (Mar 28, 2012)

franknbeans said:


> Total-I am done discussing it with you, since I am not going to allow the entire thread to be hijacked. That is not fair to the OP. I do not owe you any explanations-I have science to back me up, and yes, people make $$ off of the studies by developing new therapies, etc. Do you honestly think the folks you follow do it out of the goodness of their heart?
> 
> Keep us informed, OP-we are hoping for the best for you, but please make informed decisions. ;-)


Couldn't have said it better, and you are far nicer than I would have been. Sometimes you can't make people understand that anecdote ≠ evidence or evidence based practices.

To the OP, I do hope you are able to get a second opinion from a sports medicine ortho and I also hope for the best outcome for you


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

I wonder if the doctor lost someone or knew someone who had lost someone due to a riding accident? My dad's boss at work had a daughter who was killed by a horse. It took years for my dad to be comfortable with me having horses. I would fall off and limp home and not mention it to my dad, as he said if I got hurt the horse would go. 

The doctor may really have your best interests in mind. I don't know what your X rays look like, or what your rate of recovery has been, but usually that gives the doctor a good idea of the prognosis. 

I hate to say it, but you may need to re-think your vet school plans. I grew up wanting to have a "only horses" career and now I am in my 20's and my career is over due to health issues (not horse related). I am also teaching my horse to drive, as my riding career is on it's way out as well. 

If spending time with horses is something you plan on doing your entire life, you need to start thinking about how your body will hold up in the long term. Even if that means being a small animal vet instead.

I know how difficult it is to give up on a dream, but unfortunately that is life. If you ignore your body and try to do it anyway, you will pay for it. Is it worth not being able to do anything horse related when you are in your 30's due to being in so much pain?


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## totalfreedom (Nov 23, 2009)

I find it quite odd that people are getting upset when someone suggests that eating healthier can increase one's ability to recover from trauma or sickness.? Isn't it well known anymore that your health is a reflection of your diet? Logically thinking...does anyone out there actually think that eating pizza, burgers, and "food" that has ingredients which were created in a lab are just as healthy as the food that nature provides?

And franknbeans, you claiming that you have a degree and a license and that you look at all possible scenarios......seriously? Isn't it common in your profession to let patients know that eating healthier is GOOD for them? All those years of experience in a field that's supposed to be about health, but yet you can't claim any experience of bringing lasting true health to any patients through medication, without them needing to be on a constant maintenance program of eating pills. And even if you can claim one instance that's, excellent, but can you say to have seen it tens of thousands of times? After 30 years I'm sure you've seen at least that many people.

And your science based "proof" is created via an evil motive......GREED. All these years of, "searching for a cure", yet they have never released one. Yet there's evidence of these same groups covering up the truth when it comes to healing when it interferes with their profits. Not a path I would want to follow.

I'll leave a quote for the ones who have no experience in eating healthier to create HEALTH in the human body, but feel they need to comment to imply that I shouldn't be discussing something I know through experience creates lasting health.

"The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about" - Wayne Dyer


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

TF-this thread is about the OP, not your beliefs. We ALL should eat healthy. I think we all know that. Stop focusing on preaching to us and PLEASE stop derailing this thread. 

P.S.I think you need to read your own quote.:wink:


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Well I went to the P.T for an eval and to begin. Turns out I got the PT that was an assistant when my mom had her knee injuries, small world.... They did the initial "How much mobility do you have and how much do you want back?" talk and then gave some (hopefully) good news. 

Turns out right now, I have about 75% range of motion in that knee and less than 1cm of swelling/post surgical trauma (that's what the PT said any rate lol). The PT spent about 45 minuets talking with the surgeon (very loudly ), and seemed pretty positive that they would be able to get me back into riding/horses. She also said that on the aspect of being a large animal vet I won't know until I try. The PT said that realistically they couldn't simulate the stress that that would bring on my body so it's simply a decision that's going to have to be made when I get ready to enter vet school. The PT said that because of the range of motion I had now, as well as the limited pain/swelling I stood a good chance of being able to support the weight on my knee (more so if I would lose more weight after this year and get my spine checked out, as well as recover the muscle that I had before the injury). She joked and said that I was "young enough to adapt and relearn how to distribute the extra baggage". She seemed to think that the hardest part was going to be retraining my body to trust that knee and undo that psychology part. I also asked her to refer me to a sports medicine/physio place in the town where I'm going to be moving to and she looked at me funny and said: "Go here." turns out I live 10 minuets away from my state's NFL (or something like that) therapy place that's on a national ranking or something. Before I go up she's going to write the referral to get me in. 

Potentially bad news is that my scar tissue is thick, tough and not exactly going to be easy to break free. So that's going to be a pain in the behind. (And I didn't consider this that bad of news...) I might have a limp. I've always known that one side of my body was slightly bigger than the other (and had a slightly different gait because of it), but that coupled with my knee might have been enough to make it noticeable. I told her so long as she got me back to riding and my school I personally could care less about walking like a lamed up horse. 

None of these are concrete yet, but I feel like I'm getting more answers from her than the surgeon, and it kinda made my day that now I know they had at least ONE conversation between them.
AND to top the cake off with icing: my BO (who breeds, sells, and trains Morgans and other horses) called and told me that when I'm ready for my next horse (granted in a few years lol) to give her a shout, because between her contacts and clients she can have a safe, sane horse for cheap that's either broke or ready to be and offered to put time on it seeing as it was 'her haybale' that broke me in the first place. I tried to refuse (because she's not exactly a spring chicken and shouldn't throw her time away like that) but she had none of it and sent me a coupon she made on her computer. 

I've got my fingers crossed that this is the turning point here! :lol:


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

I just wanted to give a small update because I loved the advice that you guys gave, and it really helped me a lot. 

My PT said at my appointment today that there was really nothing else she could think of to do anymore, aside from scraping scar tissue, checking for any soft tissue damage and then just continuing on what we're doing. My knee goes to 90 degrees and just stops, despite all the effort and time I put into my excersizes and appointments. I pass all of my resistance tests except for one (and even then I'm so close), but the bending is at a stand still. I go in to talk to the surgeon soon and the PT is going to come and see what he thinks about the progress. She said that it might be we've just hit the limit of it for a while. 

I find out this coming appointment whether or not I can go to school (which has NO elevators at all), work, drive and maybe ride horses (doesn't hurt to ask, right?). Please keep your fingers crossed for me, I really want there to be a 'yes' to at least two or three of these things!


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## thetempest89 (Aug 18, 2013)

Goodluck! I hope everything works out, sounds like either way you have a bright future ahead. You're working very hard!


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Thank you tempest. I just kinda wanted to close out the thread with a final update (well.... for this one at least haha). 

I'm just going to say that yes I may be a little bit stupid but the following was done with me thinking four steps ahead and having my wonderful mare be VERY understanding and amazing (and I wouldn't have done this if I didn't trust her 110%). My mom took her for a short trail ride and when she got back asked if I wanted to try to get up on her. Since I've passed all my resistance tests, have been very good about my limits, and am seeing the surgeon SOON for a check up I decided to give it a go. I mounted from the usual side, only didn't push off with my injured leg but pulled myself up, and got up with no problem or pain. I also didn't put my broken leg in the stirrup so that should something happen I wouldn't have any weight on that knee (or be bending it too far, etc). 

My mare is a saint. She has always had this innate ability to know what her rider needs and does it. In my case every step was like she was walking on a tightrope and she was so slow and careful. I said "whoa" and she stopped dead, I asked for a circle and she did a circle. I also did a bit of jogging (hers is smooth as silk and nice and easy) and she was the same way, a consistent pace and was always very careful, and patient. My posture wasn't too bad either, but the main thing was that my leg/knee has never felt better! I really think (both) of my legs being able to be free from stress, and moving with the horse in motion helped a lot. It also gave me more mobility than I've had in about 5 months, which was amazing. The hardest part was getting off because none of the excersizes work those muscles, but my girl put up with it like I was 8 years old again. 

I might not be able to do any rodeos or ride as often as I did pre-injury right now, but I'm getting there slowly. I know I did this a bit early (about 6 or 7 months so ) but I really think that it was something that I had to do in order to move on and prove to myself that I could do again. Thank you again for all the comments and support! 


Oh! I know that this isn't really pertinent to rider wellness but if you guys could keep my barn in your thoughts/prayers I'd be really grateful. We had a horse come back from Florida and was acting weird, he fell in the cart around the same time as I got hurt and now my trainer's taking him to an EPM specialist and is 99% sure he has it. I'm a groom for him when here's here and it just breaks my heart that he has to go through this. And then after I was done riding my mare, a training horse that I'm especially attached to was down and in distress and having respiratory issues. We managed to get him up and bring him to the barn and the vet gave me step by step instructions on giving him CPR/assisting his breathing, and took his temp, but now we're wondering if it's ANOTHER case of Potomac. Nothing's positive yet but if so I'm going to be living with my boss for a while to help her out as much as I can because I'm the only one that he lets give him his vaccines/mess with him without fighting. These horses are dear to me and my trainer as we're with them almost 24/7 so to have two sick at once is just gnawing at us. 

Thank you again!


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