# Recommend me a tow vehicle



## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

So, I have started hauling my 2 horse bumper pull Brenderup with my 2001 Tundra long bed 6 cylinder rear wheel drive. This is my husband's home work truck, which he loves because of that 8 foot bed. It is our gravel, manure, firewood, hay, lumber, fencing, furniture, goats, sheep, everything hauler. Great for that, and these are not jobs that are going to go away. 

It has a regular cab, no extension, and is, in my mind, rather primitive. No cruise control, no gps, crank windows, and my dog tore the &*^% out of the door upholstery. You get the picture. It's a work truck. Okay for an hour, wearing for five.

But mainly it is a very marginal tow vehicle. My trailer weighs 1900 lbs, and my horse weighs 900. This is not a big load, but I'm about at the limit of this truck. I bet a steep grade would have me at 15 miles an hour. Have tried to avoid steep grades. I put sacks of sand over the rear axle to help keep it from spinning out.

After one longish trip in it hauling my horse I am totally ready for a new truck. But the choices are extremely confusing to me. I don't need an extended cab because I do not plan on more than one passenger and that rarely. But since pickups that don't have them are like hen's teeth I might have to accept one. 

I don't want to buy too much truck. I may be hauling a friend's horse as well as mine from time to time but I don't think I'm getting a heavier trailer. So add 1200 lbs to my towing weight, giving me something like 4000 lbs max. 

Please tell me what to look for! I am at sea. I wish I could get another 8' bed but it doesn't look like anybody even makes them any more.


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

Ford F250-350
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HombresArablegacy (Oct 12, 2013)

Or an F150 V8 with 5.2 or 5.4 liter engine will pull a 2 horse bumper pull just fine, but make sure it's a V8. As for the extended cab, you'll be surprised at how convenient it is for stowing gear, feed, etc when hauling. Also has much better resale value. I've never had a problem as far as hauling hay, lumber, etc in the 6 ft bed. 

Shoot, it took me 10 years to be able to afford an extended cab. I wouldn't buy a straight cab now for anything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

The F150 (or similar) would haul a two horse just fine. It is what I use and I have no problem.

I am also one that loves my extended cab....easier to throw a saddle in, groceries, just general stuff I do not want to throw in the bed.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

It is always better to go with more power than just enough. After hauling with gas engines for decades, when I first got my diesel super duty truck, I thought I died & went to towing heaven. No hill is a challenge, brakes are spot on, life is a breeze.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

waresbear said:


> It is always better to go with more power than just enough. After hauling with gas engines for decades, when I first got my diesel super duty truck, I thought I died & went to towing heaven. No hill is a challenge, brakes are spot on, life is a breeze.


Yeah the barely enough thing got old in minutes.


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

I haul with an f150, 5.4L and while it does the job I ALWAYS wish I had more truck. My featherlite trailer empty weighs 3000 lbs...plus horses and tack I'm at 5000-5500 lbs...which isn't A LOT A LOT but it still struggles at steeper grades. Flat? I'm golden for miles and miles. If you're SURE you wont ever be upgrading to a larger trailer then an f150 will probably be perfect for you. Most come with a factory trailer break controller which works GREAT. Just make sure you get one with the trailer break controller and towing package. Also you say you don't need an extended cab/crew cab but that gives you a longer wheel base so makes it better for towing (right? LOL) Also you wouldn't believe how nice those crew cabs are. Fold up the back seats and its like the trunk of an SUV! You can NEVER go wrong with having that extra room.

Really think about it though if you're going to be keeping that trailer long term or if getting a bigger truck is going to give you bigger trailer dreams...


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

F-150 with "ecoboost"?


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

No I have a 2010 with the 5.4L, I do love this truck but wish I had a little more, its quite hilly here in Ohio where I moved to!


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Depends on how new or old you want to go...and if you want gas or diesel.

I would like a mid-90s Ford F250 with a 390 in it for hauling if I was going to go gas. I like my 90s Ford pickups. 

I could also "make do" with a mid-2000's (2002 and newer) Dodge Ram 1500 with the 4.7L Hemi in it. 

If I was going to go diesel, well, my husband's 2005 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins turbo diesel more than gets the job done. I've hauled an aluminum Featherweight two-horse slant trailer with my monster in it (1500lbs of horse and probably 3000lbs of trailer) and it was like it wasn't even there.

All that being said, I did haul the same trailer with the same horse (only he was a couple of hundred pounds lighter then) with my 2005 Chevy Trailblazer extended that has a 4.2L in-line six in it and it didn't do too bad. I probably would have preferred trailer brakes on it, but for a quick haul (including some hills), the power was there to get the job done without a struggle. Was pleasantly surprised.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

The newer Tundras (after the redesign they did in 2007 IIRC) are much more capable. I haul with a '10 Tundra V8 (the smaller of the two V8's that they offer) and have no issues towing my steel 2-horse bumper pull, even fully loaded for a weekend show. The last barn I boarded at was up a very steep road and the first time I gave a friend a ride and returned with 2 horses in the trailer I was nervous that it would be a problem, but the truck handled it just as well as it had been doing with just my horse.

My friends with domestic trucks always seem to be needing repairs. I've been driving my Tundra for nearly 3 years and not needed anything other than routine maintenance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

I don't have the eco boost either. Mine is 2008 V8 5.4L King Ranch with the tow package. Pulls the trailer great even in hilly PA.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

PA has nothing on the Sierra Nevada in terms of grades. 
Can anybody tell me the difference between the ecoboost V6 and the V8 in terms of towing?


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

I have no clue where you haul. Just giving my opinion on the F150 and its abilities.

If you are concerned with pulling on steep grades maybe go to the super duty F250 or equivalent.


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## HombresArablegacy (Oct 12, 2013)

Avna said:


> PA has nothing on the Sierra Nevada in terms of grades.
> Can anybody tell me the difference between the ecoboost V6 and the V8 in terms of towing?


Stick with a V8, you're not going to get the power you need, or towing capacity with V6.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

HombresArablegacy said:


> Stick with a V8, you're not going to get the power you need, or towing capacity with V6.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok.

I'm not trying to insult anybody's mountains. The Sierras are about an 8000' elevation gain from here.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

double post.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

My apologies ahead of time...this turned out to be a loooong post. :redface:

Everyone is making mention of pulling ability....
_The other part of towing is the stopping part of it...._

I can tell you that regardless of make or model what happens when you go from a 150/1500 series to a 250/2500 series much is heftier and larger.
That includes your brakes, the brake pads or shoes themselves, the rotors or drums, the dimensions of your truck frame, transmission cooler added, a larger radiator, heavier suspension of springs and shocks....and more.

You currently have a very light horse trailer. You also have 1 small sized horse....
Will you ever upgrade to something more substantial or with more features such as a dressing room or tack compartment? Or another/different horse?
You then if you buy "just enough" to make it will need to upgrade a tow vehicle _again..._

I will also tell you that having "just enough" is a strain on everything in your truck.... You will age your truck a lot faster needing repairs and servicing quicker having just enough.
Sometimes it is less expensive to buy "more than just enough" because you aren't pushing the limits and wearing out parts as soon...

Today with the improvements in gas economy, there are little differences in around town driving mileage between a 150/1500 and a 250/2500. 
Towing of course your mileage depends upon your loaded weight, trailer design, how fast you want to arrive and the terrain you drive.
Diesels are fine but do have their drawbacks too. Big one is additional cost to buy it...a really big one! 
The "newer" ones are also much more involved in maintaining with the new DEF regulations all are facing. 
So a diesel lasts longer...sounds wonderful till you realize that the truck that engine is in is junk and needs replacing same as a gas engine one...the rest is the same, only the engine composition changed!
Diesel fuel is now as expensive or more than gas....so no savings there.
Power.... do you need to accelerate in a cloud of black smoke or will your horse appreciate a slower and gentler increase of speed?
If you are pulling mountain passes...well, I hope you do so carefully since you can only travel legally at posted speed limits and what the traffic congestion will allow.
What you tow at speed you now need to stop from those speeds, trailer brakes properly working, you need to control that trailer stopping, period!!

Personally, I find diesels, old or new, to be noisier than a gas engine and they smell, _period! _
If you need to pre-warm your car in winter a diesel needs to be plugged in or expensive glow-plugs in working order and they can take forever to warm up. You can fumigate yourself with it idling in the yard for hours before it will get warm inside like a gas engine does in 5 minutes... {diesels really warm-up as they move and run, not idling}
These are some things I have noticed and have had experience with between gas or diesel trucks of all sizes.

_Now...a true story...._
Yesterday, I had someone come take my manure pile away for their garden {Yay!!}
They had a 24' long trailer that I was told could hold 9 round bales....big ones easily.
Towing it was a Toyota Tundra...
I was _*NOT*_ impressed!!
The truck squatted and nearly dragged the hitch out my yard on level ground....this with all the added extras to "pull and handle the heavy stuff"....
Trailer was NOT over-loaded in weight on it either.
I didn't understand so went looking to see why it couldn't handle the load.
Know what....truck weighs around 5000 and towing capacity of truck weight and trailer with all everything {GVWR} is only in the 7000 pounds maximum range :shock:.. not much room for towing or hauling anything.
Then looked and found the Tacoma weighs in around 3980 - 4230 depending upon model and options selected..
The towing and payload {GVWR} is 5600 no matter what model or options. :shock:
Bottom line is _not _a good match for towing a horse trailer loaded even with one horse and light as yours is...you are at your maximum very quickly...
So, bottom line is after I did some online investigating I realized why I saw a dangerous towed truck & trailer combination of composted manure going down the street with truck tail to the ground {even with beefed up suspension and the air bags assist} and trailer hitch nearly scraping the ground....
Empty, that trailer probably weighed what your current horse trailer does empty...
I don't understand what people are doing that are towing horse trailers making them "road-safe".....even with a 10000 pound allowance...a 2-horse steel trailer loaded with _*is*_ putting you near your limit or over easily.:shrug:

Please also realize that when you read about weights legally allowed and tested for, any and all of those weights are "dead" weight. _That is ALL MANUFACTURERS.._
Campers, boats, jet-ski.... _never, ever_ is a live cargo used like horses/livestock.
Those equations would be thrown out the window when you put a moving cargo to tow....

So, do your homework carefully.
Figure out what you need, then add several hundred pounds of leeway _at a minimum_ to "err" on the side of caution.
Anything and everything you put in your vehicle from you to a bale of hay, saddle..._anything_ gets added into those number according to what I read. Those numbers add up quick.
*Buyer Beware...

:hide:..*_now going to go hide, watch the commentary and read how people are able to tow those large trailers I see in safety...there must be a way but not seen online through Toyota's specs page does it show it...
:runninghorse2:....
jmo..
_


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

I agree with HLG that the Toyota trucks (and Nissan, for that matter) are not capable tow vehicles. 

I disagree, however, regarding diesels. The only time our diesel "accelerates in a cloud of black smoke" is if you mash the accelerator straight off the line trying to show off or step on the accelerator hard to blow by someone...hopefully neither of which things you'll be doing while pulling a horse trailer. Then the turbo kicks in and there will be a cloud. How big that cloud is depends on how diligent you've been with your maintenance and how hard you stomped that accelerator. 

In winter, yes, it does take a little while to warm up, but you're safe to drive as soon as the glow-plug indicator on the dash turns off. Quite frankly, it takes as long or longer for my little '86 Escort GT to warm up as it does for the truck to warm up. 

Where I live, diesel is about $.20 less per gallon than unleaded. Our diesel gets better gas mileage, even empty, than the majority of gas pickups. We average 18-21 in town (depending on who is driving and when the oil was changed) and 24+ on the highway. Diesels are quirky because they get better fuel mileage if they're pulling a load.

As for noise, our truck inside the cab is not much louder than a gas pickup. Heck, it's quiter than my car, which rattles and has wind noise. We can carry on a conversation with each other in normal tones, even with someone sitting in the back seat. I will share this observation: Fords tend to have VERY bad engine noise inside the can, but are quiet outside; Chevy/GMCs are about in the middle; Dodges tend to be the quietest in the cab, but are rather noisy outside.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

for many years we have used a HD Chev 2500 6L V8 4 door, short box for tow vehicle. Haul a 3H gooseneck with small LQ. Have no problems hauling, has never needed repairs ,just have done regular maintenance on truck. Biggest downsize is gas mileage... it is a hog


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## kewpalace (Jul 17, 2013)

I have a 2001 GMC Sierra extended cab 2500HD Diesel 4x4. It is a tank. It always blew my friends GMC Sierra 1500 gas 2x4 out of the water going up the grade (6 or 8%) from Bakersfield to Tehachapi. We haul the same trailer - Trails West Adventure MX 2H slant (steel trailer) and hauled 2 horses each.  my truck!! My truck always feels like I am not hauling anything, even when my trailer is fully loaded (and then some). 

The only times it smelled/smells or blows smoke is when I don't properly maintain it.  It is pretty noisy on the outside, but pretty quiet in the cab (if it is maintained; if not, I can hear it plenty, LOL). Gas mileage is consistent with a truck - but, of course, when I drive conservatively, it actually does pretty good. As with Drafty, right now disel is about 20 cents under gas.

It does not take that long to warm up in the winter and I have never had it not start in the cold. Probably the coldest I've gone out in is about 20F. I start it up, load the horses and it's ready to go! My neighbor's F250 diesel won't start when it's that cold, LOL. 

I feel safe and secure hauling with my truck. No so sure I would with a 1/2 ton. Plenty of people tow with a 1/2 ton, but after towing with less than a 1/2 ton and then with a 3/4 ton and knowing people who haul with a 1/2 ton, I think I'd stick with the 3/4 ton for my towing, regardless of gas type.


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

horselovinguy said:


> Personally, I find diesels, old or new, to be noisier than a gas engine and they smell, _period! _
> If you need to pre-warm your car in winter a diesel needs to be plugged in or expensive glow-plugs in working order and they can take forever to warm up. You can fumigate yourself with it idling in the yard for hours before it will get warm inside like a gas engine does in 5 minutes... {diesels really warm-up as they move and run, not idling}
> These are some things I have noticed and have had experience with between gas or diesel trucks of all sizes.


I agree with most of your post but ^^^, Grrrrr!

First of all I like the smell of diesel but then I grew up on a farm running diesel equipment so maybe I'm a bit odd.

I've rarely had to plug in my pickup and that's when it's down in the single digits cold, pickup would start without being plugged it but it would be cranky. I had it on a timer that turned on an hour before I went to work and she would fire right up. Don't know all the prices on glow plugs but mine are ~$8/each and are easy to change, not what I would call expensive.
It is true they don't/wont warm up until you get going down the road which is a pain in the cold. At least Ford now offers an auxiliary cab heater for those cooooold morning. 

As for black smoke, that's mainly for two reasons. One is it's a poorly running truck. Second is it's running a non factory tune and they are "Rolling Smoke" or "Burning Coal", it's not by accident they are pouring out black smoke.

Now to the OP.

There are 1/2 ton lovers on this board that will argue with me all day long by pointing at the specs but here it is: 1/2 tons will not tow livestock as long or as safely as a 3/4 or 1 ton pickup. Their parts are smaller and lighter than the counterpart parts on a heavier pickup. If towing an RV, I would say go for it but not when towing livestock. Livestock doesn't tow the same as dead weight and when something breaks the consequences are greater. You may not crash (but you are more likely to break a critical part that leads to a crash) but what the heck do you do with a trailer full of horses when you break down? Same issue in heavier trucks but they have fewer parts that are likely to break due to strain.

1/2 tons are lightened in all areas to increase fuel mileage because they are part of CAFE standards. Heavy Duty trucks (until just recently) did not participate in CAFE standards so they didn't have to lighten them up to increase fuel mileage averages for the fleet. Not only that, they didn't want to lighten them up because they are built to work and not to take the kids to soccer matches no matter how they are actually used (such as taking kids to soccer matches).

When it comes to towing heavier, stronger, longer and more power are always better. Can also toss in dual rear wheels as they had that much more stability when towing but they are a bigger pain for daily driving. I wouldn't go dually until going with heavier loads than a 2-4 horse trailer will give you (non living quarter that is).


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Thank you all for all your opinions! It's all clear to me now! I absolutely should get a diesel, no need for a diesel, V8, V6, half ton, 3/4ths ton truck. I need large, larger, much larger, as large as possible, but not really! And surely I am going to want a bigger trailer bigger horse more horses living quarters even if I don't now, and then I'll be so glad I have such a big truck.

My rancher friend who has been driving diesel farm machinery since she could see over the dash, and hauling stock almost that long, told me I didn't need near as much truck as people will tell me. She has an F150 V6 ecoboost that pulls anything she needs pulling, easily. She's always had Fords but recommends I look at the equivalent Dodge as well as she's been hearing good things about the newer ones. She's done more livestock hauling than anybody I know outside of professional haulers so I kinda trust her judgement. 

However at this time I am feeling a certain lack of coherence.

I would like to state for the record that my trailer isn't steel, it's fiberglass, made in the Netherlands (so out here nobody can figure it out). It is 1900 lbs. My horse is not going to grow and unless something tragic happens, she is the only horse I will probably ever have. Yes I might haul two horses from time to time. It's very unlikely I will ever get another trailer either. I have ambitions which seem very large to me: trail riding with my horse, and some camping. That is it. I'm not going to 'grow' my horse thing. It's plenty big enough for me. Almost too big.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Just like there's multiple ways to keep a horse, there's multiple opinions on tow vehicles. Everyone has what works for them and what they think works best. 

The bottom line is you can never have "too much" truck, but you _can_ have not enough truck. Don't go with something that will just do the bare minimum of what you need. You want that comfort margin because you don't want to be overtaxing your engine and causing more maintenance and repairs for yourself. 

If you don't plan on upgrading your trailer, getting another horse, or getting a different horse, then a V6 or small V8 will do what you want just fine.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

Avna said:


> Thank you all for all your opinions! It's all clear to me now! I absolutely should get a diesel, no need for a diesel, V8, V6, half ton, 3/4ths ton truck. I need large, larger, much larger, as large as possible, but not really! And surely I am going to want a bigger trailer bigger horse more horses living quarters even if I don't now, and then I'll be so glad I have such a big truck.
> 
> My rancher friend who has been driving diesel farm machinery since she could see over the dash, and hauling stock almost that long, told me I didn't need near as much truck as people will tell me. She has an F150 V6 ecoboost that pulls anything she needs pulling, easily. She's always had Fords but recommends I look at the equivalent Dodge as well as she's been hearing good things about the newer ones. She's done more livestock hauling than anybody I know outside of professional haulers so I kinda trust her judgement.
> 
> ...



This was a little uncalled for. People were just trying to offer suggestions.

If your friend had already told you what to get why come here and ask? And then get frustrated over all the different opinions?


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

_Very well put __DraftyAiresMum, very well put...._

At least use the information/knowledge many shared to keep you and others safe on the road as you travel around with truck, trailer and horse{s} in tow....
You get to share the road with others, a privilege. 
It is your responsibility to do that with as safe a piece of equipment as possible.
It is your responsibility to keep your horse safe too...both with the tow vehicle and the trailer the horse stands in going down the road.

_Enjoy your search for the perfect vehicle. :wave:

_ :runninghorse2:...


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

sarahfromsc said:


> This was a little uncalled for. People were just trying to offer suggestions.
> 
> If your friend had already told you what to get why come here and ask? And then get frustrated over all the different opinions?


I just talked to her right before I posted our conversation. I was trying to be funny, sorry. 

The thing is, though, there is a balance to be struck. You really CAN have too much truck. Or at least, I sure can. A truck that is more expensive than needed is too much truck. A truck that is so heavy that it is extremely inefficient is too much truck. A truck with four wheel drive that is never used is too much truck. A truck that is too big to maneuver is too much truck. A truck that has five times the power needed to draw my small horse trailer is too much truck, because all that power is simply wasted expense. And I happen to hate wasted expense. 

If you don't think you can have too much truck, than you are the wrong adviser for me.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

horselovinguy said:


> _Very well put __DraftyAiresMum, very well put...._
> 
> At least use the information/knowledge many shared to keep you and others safe on the road as you travel around with truck, trailer and horse{s} in tow....
> You get to share the road with others, a privilege.
> ...


I agree with this.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Avna said:


> If you don't think you can have too much truck, than you are the wrong adviser for me.


Funny, since what I originally recommended for you was an older (mid-90s) Ford F250 with a _gas_ engine (I'd look at a 390 myself) or a 2004 or newer Dodge Ram 1500 with a Hemi (I wouldn't go with the V6...my MIL has a 2005 Ram 1500 with the V6 in it and the thing is puny)...neither of which would be "too much truck" per your own definition. :icon_rolleyes:


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

I will look into those, thanks Drafty.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

Avna said:


> I just talked to her right before I posted our conversation. I was trying to be funny, sorry.
> 
> The thing is, though, there is a balance to be struck. You really CAN have too much truck. Or at least, I sure can. A truck that is more expensive than needed is too much truck. A truck that is so heavy that it is extremely inefficient is too much truck. A truck with four wheel drive that is never used is too much truck. A truck that is too big to maneuver is too much truck. A truck that has five times the power needed to draw my small horse trailer is too much truck, because all that power is simply wasted expense. And I happen to hate wasted expense.
> 
> If you don't think you can have too much truck, than you are the wrong adviser for me.


I offered my experience with the F150, which isn't to much truck really. I wasn't advising until you said your grades were steeper than the Alleghenys, so then I did advise to go to a heavy duty if pulling steep grades caused anxiety.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

sarahfromsc said:


> I offered my experience with the F150, which isn't to much truck really. I wasn't advising until you said your grades were steeper than the Alleghenys, so then I did advise to go to a heavy duty if pulling steep grades caused anxiety.


I apologize as I do not know how steep the grades are in the Alleghenys. The Sierras have some very steep grades indeed, of course. Your point is taken. I was wondering about the F150 especially the turbo ("ecoboost"), if that would be adequate. It seems like there is that possibility anyway.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

horselovinguy said:


> Towing it was a Toyota Tundra...
> I was _*NOT*_ impressed!!
> ...
> I didn't understand so went looking to see why it couldn't handle the load.
> Know what....truck weighs around 5000 and towing capacity of truck weight and trailer with all everything {GVWR} is only in the 7000 pounds maximum range :shock:.. not much room for towing or hauling anything.


Not sure what model Tundra they had, but mine has a towing capacity of 8,600 lbs. More than enough for my usual load (3000 lb steel 2-horse BP + one 1000 lb horse + miscellaneous tack and supplies), the max I could realistically fit in there (2 horses + tack, ~5500 lbs) or even the max the trailer is rated for (7000 lbs) though I doubt I could ever get that much weight in there without converting it a 3-horse.

No matter what truck you get, it's important to know its capacities and stay well within them. There are a ton of different configurations for each model year, make, and model of truck which will affect the towing (and other) capacities; and clearly any truck you plan to tow with needs to have the tow package and a properly configured brake controller.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

verona1016 said:


> Not sure what model Tundra they had, but mine has a towing capacity of 8,600 lbs.


The only problem with that is unless I read it wrong...
_The towing capacity is the truck *and* the load towed_, in this case a horse trailer occupied with animals and all the stuff we cram into it and the truck when we travel...you need to use the GVW more since all braking and suspension systems are worked with that number as a maximum...Right?
According to their website you need to add the truck weight to the tow load for total capacity. They put the numbers clearly in print and they were not good with the configurations they showed, not good at all.

I only know the gentleman stated no problem it can tow and handle great weight as I do this often yet the truck was tail to the ground...scary to watch him go down the road.
Scary for others to be in his way sharing the road. 

_I'm glad your rig is outfitted better in carrying capacity.:wink:_


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

horselovinguy said:


> The only problem with that is unless I read it wrong...
> _The towing capacity is the truck *and* the load towed_, in this case a horse trailer occupied with animals and all the stuff we cram into it and the truck when we travel...you need to use the GVW more since all braking and suspension systems are worked with that number as a maximum...Right?
> According to their website you need to add the truck weight to the tow load for total capacity. They put the numbers clearly in print and they were not good with the configurations they showed, not good at all.
> 
> ...


Tongue weight- How much weight can be hung off the back of your vehicle.

Towing capacity- total weight a vehicle can tow.

Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW)- How much a vehicle is rated to weigh (load + vehicle weight). This is why a standard cab pickup can actually haul more load then a crew cab with the same GVW rating. Crew cab will hundreds of pounds to a vehicles empty weight. FYI, my standard cab pickup with a diesel motor weighs in at almost 6k pounds empty.

Gross Combined Vehicle Weight (GCVW)- Total weight a vehicle is rated to both weigh and tow.

Then there's rated axle carry weight for both vehicle and trailer. You can be within the rated carrying capacity of a vehicle but overload one of your axles. This happens quite frequently as people hang all that weight off their rear bumper. Cheaper horse trailer often have low weight rated axles to the point where a normally loaded trailer will exceed maximum axle weight.

Also have to factor in the maximum loaded weight per tire at maximum air pressure. Quite often people will overload their tires either because the tire is rated lower than needed or their pressure is lower then it should be.

Now to engines, size does matter when it comes to towing but also what matters is axle ratios vs. engine rated power bands. In truth an inline 4 cylinder engine can tow a horse trailer so long as it has the gearing to do it, your top end speed and fuel economy will suffer but it can do it. So yes, a V6 Ford Ecoboost can tow a horse trailer so long as it comes equipped with the properly sized gearing in both the transmission and rear axles. Best to buy one that comes with a factory tow package, it should have been set up properly. If you just go buy a used pickup that has a hitch already attached to it and been told it can tow, well it could be after market hitch while the rest of the vehicle is not set up right. 

Also, the reason why big block gas motors and diesels are the engine of choice for towing is they produce a lot of low RPM torque. Low end torque is what towing is all about. Smaller motors (small block V8's and V6's) produce their power at higher RPM's, great for racing but not so great for towing. This is where gearing comes into play, to get the engine into it's power band for towing you need lower gearing in the vehicle. Lower gearing for daily driving hurts MPG. It's all about trade off and why many go with a diesel. You get great towing torque and can run higher gearing for better fuel economy in an apples to apples comparison vs. a gas motor. Alternately you can go for fuel economy in a gas pickup (empty) and live with a vehicle that doesn't tow very well (small motor, high gearing), which leads to going up hills slow and horrid fuel mileage when you are towing. Or get a vehicle that's somewhere in between the two. 

This is why you got such a variety of answers when asking can X vehicle pull my horse trailer.


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

Avna said:


> I just talked to her right before I posted our conversation. I was trying to be funny, sorry.
> 
> The thing is, though, there is a balance to be struck. You really CAN have too much truck. Or at least, I sure can. A truck that is more expensive than needed is too much truck. A truck that is so heavy that it is extremely inefficient is too much truck. A truck with four wheel drive that is never used is too much truck. A truck that is too big to maneuver is too much truck. A truck that has five times the power needed to draw my small horse trailer is too much truck, because all that power is simply wasted expense. And I happen to hate wasted expense.
> 
> If you don't think you can have too much truck, than you are the wrong adviser for me.


Like I said before I tow my Featherlite with my F150, I do wish I had more truck but I said for your trailer it would probably be perfect. I just like to try and think and plan ahead. When I bought my truck I didn't have this trailer yet I had an old small dinky one. While shopping though I compared all the towing capabilities and ratings of trucks with the trailer models I was thinking of purchasing. It just sucks to buy something then a year or two later realize you want something bigger (trailer wise or truck wise). It sounds like you don't want a bigger trailer anytime soon though. The F150 gets around town pretty well though and I usually don't have any trouble fitting into parking spaces with it which is nice. When I bought it I lived just outside of DC so I was scared to try getting anything bigger! Do consider the crew cab though, I don't have kids or ever plan on it but MAN I love that extra space. Its so nice for grocery shopping...well any kind of shopping really...or if you ever have extra stuff that didn't fit in trailer..changing in the truck..taking a nap LOL!

ALSO if I remember right your trailer doesn't have electric breaks right? My old trainer had a Brenderup and it had a different kind of breaking system I thought? If it doesn't, imo still get a truck with the factory trailer break controller...because who knows you may haul someone elses trailer sometime...or if you ever do get a different trailer and it DOES have the electric breaks you'll already be prepared.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

_*Thanks Darrin....*_

I think seeing all the different classifications printed out side by side on the same page helps you to understand there are many factors in making a educated, wise decision in purchasing a adequate towing vehicle...

There are so many things to understand so you are safe on the road.

Knowing, truly knowing what is in a vehicle from when it was manufactured is so very important....not every vehicle is the same under the pretty exterior sheet metal!! :wink:
:runninghorse2:....
_jmo..._


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

I think it all comes down to how often you will tow and will the vehicle be used for anything else (IE: Commuter, daily driver, etc). I was going through something similar recently...did a bunch of comparisons online (which is IMPOSSIBLE since there are so many different specs for each truck). Test drove a couple different trucks, spoke with the dealers and people I know who know about trucks. I ended up getting a Dodge 1500 5.7L Hemi. It tows my 3 horse trailer (which is steel) just fine. I've only ever had 2 horses in it and it didn't have much of a problem. I tow on average once every week or two...but this truck is also my commuter/daily driver. 
I just looked for something that I knew had the towing capacity I needed, had good user reviews and was not a massive pig on gas. It is also upgraded on the inside with leather, sunroof, etc.....b/c this is my daily driver I also wanted a NICE vehicle that i liked to drive. 
My parents have a Toyota Tundra which has also towed my horse trailer with 2 horses in it no problem. 
Guess it kind of comes down to how often you tow, and where you're towing to. BTW, in my search for a truck, I believe the F150 v6 Ecoboost had comparable towing capacity to the Dodge 1500 (these are all 4x4 trucks) ....I might get shunned here, but I don't like Fords which is why I went Dodge.


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

Did forget to add one thing to my post about 4x4's. 4 wheel drive is one of those things that you think you can live without until you need it...If you are a pure show person, never go on trail rides, never pull into a pasture, never drive in bad weather, etc. then a two wheel drive is fine. But if you do happen to go trail riding, pull into pastures (or even muddy barn yards) or drive in bad weather then consider a 4 wheel drive. Yes they cost a bit more but having the ability to get around better is priceless. It's amazing how often 4 wheel drive is useful:

-Pull into a muddy pasture, it's likely your only hope.

-Pull into a dry rough pasture with a trailer and get a rear wheel into a hole...
Been there, done that!

-Go up a steep gravel road full to get to a trail head, the ability to go into 4 low is nice though not a must have. Extra wheels pulling that weight up hill helps a lot.

-Get to a trail head with little room to turn around in the gravel so you have to drop off onto soft ground, you'll want a 4 wheel drive.

-Pulling your horse trailer in the hills and get hit with freezing rain, trust me you'll want 4 wheel drive (and even then it's scary /shiver). This really did happen to me. on the way home from a ride. Darn weatherman didn't say a thing about freezing rain or I wouldn't of gone!

-Going into the mountains early in the year for a trail ride and have to drive through some lingering snow drifts on the back gravel roads, you'll want 4 wheel drive.

-Muddy barn yard? Trailer on the back? You'll want 4 wheel drive.

I could go on but that's enough examples. Lets just say that when pulling a trailer there's a lot of times where 4 wheel drive is either a help or required if you don't have a friend handy to pull you out and you leave pavement. Even on pavement there's times when you'll want it. While it does cost more to buy a 4 wheel drive you'll typically get that cost back when you sell it. The overall cost of operating a 4 wheel drive isn't all that much more than a two wheel drive.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Darrin, I have been stuck in more than one pasture with my rear wheel drive truck. I kinda like the way you think.


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## mred (Jan 7, 2015)

I have an 1997 F150, with tow package, 4x4. I have had it a long time. I pull my two horse bumper pull about once a month. Truck is also used to haul hay, etc. Extended cab is great. Truck is really getting old starting to have major problems. I purchased a 2014 F250, tow, 4x4.crew cab. Gas . I love it. I wanted it. Could another 1/2 ton work, sure. But remember it is not always about going, it is about stopping. Gas does not require def and the mileage is not that much difference when not towing. 4x4 needed as not to mess up the pasture when wet. With the 3/4 ton, I can tow a gooseneck, if I wanted to. I like ford, but I drove a new GMC and it was great too. The 3/4 ton is bigger, harder to park and turn around. I also don't drive it daily. Right for me. 
The two things that I must have in a truck, is tires and brakes. I don't mine going slow, if it gets me there.


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

I have a 2002 Tundra Access cab (little suicide doors for the back seat) with the V-8, tow package, and 4WD. I used it to pull a Featherlite 2-horse trailer with my big guy in it from Minnesota to Washington State, and we stopped in Montana and picked up my niece's massive mustang mare for the last part of the trip.

My Tundra has a 7100 pound towing capacity, and I'd guess the all up weight of that trailer with both horses was probably right around 5,000 pounds. The Tundra was adequate. I averaged around 12 mpg for the whole trip and never had any real challenges going up or down mountain grades (although by taking the northern route and skirting the south end of Glacier Park I avoided some of the steeper passes.)

So I think just about any newer half ton with a tow package would pull your Brenderup like it wasn't there. However, you also mentioned hauling gravel and firewood, and you can't even fill the bed of a half ton with either one before you are overloaded. I haul some heavy stuff and I'm seriously thinking about a 3/4 ton for my next truck. Specifically, I'm looking for a 2008-2014 Silverado 2500 with the gas engine, which during those model years would be the 6.0 liter V-8.

One of the ironies that I don't understand is you can buy one of those new or used for less than a half ton, and if you want a single cab and 8' foot box, they are a lot easier to find. A recent article republished by Popular Mechanics said that among vehicles still on the road with more than 200,000 miles, the Ford and Chevy 2500's are number one and two. The GMC 2500 is #6 and the Toyota Tacoma is number 10. Dodge didn't make the list.
The Top Vehicles That Make It Over 200,000 Miles - What Cars Last 200,000 Miles
HD Pickups Most Likely to Hit 200,000 Miles - PickupTrucks.com News

The Silverado 2500 is on the Consumer Reports best used cars list. it would be overkill for your Brenderup and one horse, but it would be nice for your other hauling duties.

And by the way, the 3.5L Ford Ecoboost is a monster motor, producing 420 lb/ft of torque at only 2500 rpm. In a January comparison test in Pickuptrucks.com, it blew the doors off the Chevy, Ram, and Toyota V-8s pulling a 10,000 pound trailer. The 6.2L equipped GMC was even faster, but to get that engine you have to get into the rarified trim level (big money).
Texas Truck Showdown 2016: Towing Acceleration - PickupTrucks.com News


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

Avna said:


> I was trying to be funny, sorry.


I thought it was funny. We are all so sure about what you need and we post all these contradictory recommendations and I won't be getting my feelings hurt if you want to point out the obvious.

I understand why people love their diseaseals with all that power down just above idle, but here diesel is more expensive than gas to begin with, with the added hassle of needing to add a jug of diesel exhaust fluid with each fill, and the additional expense for every oil change, and the big expense of buying the optional engine up front. Yes, theoretically the diesel engine could outlive a gas engine in the same use, but with gas engines regularly lasting over 200,000 miles, that really won't matter to most truck owners. If you are pulling a massive living-quarters trailer the cost benefit ratio starts to look better. For the rest of us, a diesel engine is an expensive luxury.


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

Cost of a new diesel pickup honestly doesn't pencil out vs gas unless you do a lot of pulling. Buying used can pencil out but you do have to shop around some.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

My riding teacher has a diesel 350 4x4. But she hauls into the Sierras at least once a month 3 seasons of the year, with a heavy cab-over camper, pulling a two horse which I bet weighs twice what mine does. Different needs. 

I'm liking the reviews of the F150 V6 with Ecoboost. They are very popular so my chances of finding a nice used one are pretty good. I know they are not built for really heavy work, but they have a lot of torque and may be a good compromise.

The best news is that my husband is getting interested in truck specs. I am using the "I am going to be hauling alone and this is not a safe rig" argument. Seems to be working.


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## jimmyp (Sep 5, 2013)

If your friend has hauled more live stock than anyone you know recommends a eco boost f150, then I have to assume she might be the only person you know who hauls livestock..... or your idea of hauling livestock is different than mine.

The ford eco boost is a v6 engine that is comprised of an awful lot of aluminum. the biggest reason that the eco boost makes the power it does is because it has a turbo, which runs based on exhaust gas pressure and uses that pressure to compress forced air then fed through the intake. this often results in an efficient vehicle that has plenty of "power" but runs comparatively low torque numbers.

All of this sounds rather impressive until you realize of course that torque is what moves loads in a vehicle. That is why V8 and big inline 6cyl engines are often used in towing application, larger amounts of rotational mass provide more torque as well as rotational momentum, which allow a vehicle to generate rotational force to the differential and move a load.

You probably do not need a 3/4 ton (250/2500 series) truck, but an regular cab 8ft bed configuration, is going to maneuver exactly like the same truck in a 1/2ton (150/1500) series. grab a decent 1/2ton pick-up, with a v8 and the transmission of your choice and go about your business. if you pull grades, which it sounds like you do, a diesel will be a benefit, due to the additional torque. 

Your thoughts of trucks being too heavy to be efficient are understandable, however, consider that despite what the pretty window sticker says most 1/2 ton offerings will average between 15-18mpg being daily driven, and will then drop closer to 10mpg or less as soon as you add a trailer. my 8k/lb dirty, noisy, 16yo diesel averages 16mpg around town 22mpg on the interstate and 12mpg pulling our loaded 20k/lb lq trailer. The maintenance on a 1/2 ton that you regularly tow with will equal the maintenance of a 3/4ton truck that you do the same work with because it is honestly not built to do the same kind of work. and despite the fact that your trailer only weighs 1800lbs, add the horse and 2700lbs on the bumper places a pretty hefty amount of leverage about 6-7" BEHIND the truck which is even more stressing on the chassis components of a 1/2 ton vehicle. 

Good luck in your search, though it sounds like your mind is made up. lots of folks are killed and stock injured when they have "just enough truck".

Jim


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## jimmyp (Sep 5, 2013)

Avna said:


> I'm liking the reviews of the F150 V6 with Ecoboost. They are very popular so my chances of finding a nice used one are pretty good. I know they are not built for really heavy work, but they have a lot of torque and may be a good compromise.


420lbs of torque at 2500rpms is not real impressive. look at the power curves from dyne tests and you will notice that those numbers are a little misleading. towing requires low RPM power. this is where the V6 lacks.

Jim


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

I've owned four Fords and all of them were disappointing, so I'm no Ford fan. But the power of the 3.5 Liter Ecoboost defies the stereotypes usually applied to six cylinder or turbocharged engines. Anybody who says a V8 would do a better job pulling a trailer needs to go back and do their homework.

Here are the actual results running the 2016 pickups on the same dynomometer:
Toyota 5.7L V8 295 lb/[email protected],100 rpm
Chevrolet 5.3L V8 298 lb/[email protected],100 rpm
Ram 5.7L Hemi 299 lb/[email protected],500 rpm
GMC 6.2L 336 lb/[email protected],200 rpm
Ford 3.5L Ecoboost 347 [email protected],150 rpm

The turbo makes the most torque and makes it at the lowest rpm. It flat killed the other trucks (other than the 6.2 GM engine) in every contest of speed, whether unloaded or pulling a 10,000 pound trailer.

Sure, pulling a trailer it only got 11.3 mpg, but that was second best of the five trucks, and running unloaded it averaged 22.8 mpg. And with its 36 gallon tank it will go farther between fills than any of the other pickups, towing or empty.


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

Texas Truck Showdown 2016: Max Towing Overview - PickupTrucks.com News


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## jimmyp (Sep 5, 2013)

I've done my home work for 20yrs, not thumbing through magazines, not trolling the internet but working in the industry. Fords advertising certainly defies the average.


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

Joel Reiter said:


> Anybody who says a V8 would do a better job pulling a trailer needs to go back and do their homework.





jimmyp said:


> I've done my home work for 20yrs, not thumbing through magazines, not trolling the internet but working in the industry.


I should have chosen my words more carefully. I didn't mean to insult you. Sorry.


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

Turbos are a game changer for gas motors (just like they were for diesels), what boggles me is why has it taken this many years for them to catch on? That said, in an apples to apples comparison between engines used for towing cubes do matter. For an apples to apples comparison the engines need to be equipped with similar equipment, comparing a turbo vs. non turbo engine will tilt it towards the engine with a turbo unless the cubes are vastly different. 

Now here's the things with turbos, it's called turbo wind up. Where does that matter? Down low in the rpm range, just where you need the power for towing and your turbo isn't helping you. Now Ford does know how to work around that, it's called dual turbo setup but not all of their engines come with two turbos (haven't looked hard enough to determine how each engine can come configured). This is where a V8 non turbo engine will outperform a V6 with a turbo, off the line.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

In defense of my friend, I will say that she told me her rig, the F150 V6 with turbo, would be a fine choice for MY needs, not everyone in creation. 

I'm afraid I am going to be disappointing to some of the posters, for while I am very good at absorbing facts about the living world, the mechanical one is very difficult for me to understand. Therefore I have to make those types of choices using other skills, one of which has to be gathering evidence from a variety of sources and weighing the quality of that information. 

When ten different people give ten different answers to the same question, to me this is a sign that 1. there are many acceptable alternatives and/or 2. there are unacknowledged criteria (such as for example prejudice, or extrapolation from too small a data sample, etc.) 

I have bought a truck yet.


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

Darrin said:


> Down low in the rpm range, just where you need the power for towing and your turbo isn't helping you. Now Ford does know how to work around that, it's called dual turbo setup.


_Twin turbos on a small engine work their magic, supplying an incredibly broad and thick torque band that begins just off idle._
Car and Driver, F150 road test, December 2014

Link:Impressive Performance​


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## jimmyp (Sep 5, 2013)

quoting car and driver is like citing Wikipedia on a term paper. Twin turbos do help, but you still need to produce enough RPMs to generate the 2-3 lbs of boost in the first turbo to get the second spooled and that doesn't happen low enough in the RPM range for a low torque light weight V6. Truth is the Eco boost runs compound turbos which is different than twins. Over the last several years I have experimented with big singles, compounds, twins, and triples, and I promis they all still require a ton of RPMs and don't play nice till the upper half of the RPM range. And that is in 1000+HP 1800ft/lb diesels
Jim


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

----



Avna said:


> In defense of my friend, I will say that she told me her rig, the F150 V6 with turbo, would be a fine choice for MY needs, not everyone in creation. *and that may be since you are looking at a Brenderup and as long as you are pulling ON THE FLAT and not going into the mountains.
> 
> Along with horsepower, the motor needs low end torque, the vehicle needs better brakes, radiator for fast cooling and a heavier transmission with a cooling system.*
> 
> ...


*^^^I know that means you have NOT bought a truck - I hate when these IPads, etc. make their own assumptions.

Were it me, I would look for a used tow vehicle that has been well-maintenanced. It doesn't matter what make you buy, when it comes to older, you want the make that wasn't a lemon the year it was produced and that somebody has cared enough to take excellent care of mechanically.

It is no joke that I have people standing line, with baited breath, wanting to buy my old GMC, including my younger brother. There's no rust on it, it has always been well maintenanced mechanically.

I tell everyone they will have to come to the estate auction when I cash in. I have owned that truck 35 of its 38 years and we have been to Hades and back, in some of our adventures. I rarely drive it but it's still down in the barnyard and that's right where I want to see it every day, lollol.*


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

_*Exactly.......*_
I have never, will never question a "Oh **it moment" in time because I was under-trucked. 

All of what you wrote walkin are so very important.
These trucks are not intended for being people movers.
They are intended, in our case, to work and be horse movers, then people movers and the equipment for our horses movers, period.
They_ can be and are _the life or you, your horse and the people on the road you share space with. 
You are responsible for ensuring the safety of yourself and your horse and those you travel the road with when hauling....people do some really stupid stuff when they see horse trailers. 
Have you ever noticed that???

Many of us have seen the carnage, some have been part of the carnage of trailering accidents.
So many of those accidents either would not of happened, or the damage done would of been greatly reduced if people had the proper vehicles pulling the trailer.

It isn't about pulling._.It is about stopping and controlling that live load._ 
I don't care what trailer you tow. 
I also think you have already made up your mind to what you will buy and this was a thread you started for people to back-pat you on your decision.
I think what you have received is a lot of people offering opinion and advice gained through years of accumulated trailering of horses that are advising you to think very carefully about this decision and why.

It is ultimately your decision what to buy, what to power your truck with and what to tow with...
Just do it with eyes wide open and do the research on the many towing websites that are all out there available with a simple search....just remember that many of those sites do not tow live cargo but dead-weight that doesn't move or breathe...
You want pros and cons for each vehicle, they are out there.
Now, go find the websites that deal with towing of horses, livestock and read what is posted.....
Then you can make a educated decision and look to fulfill it....
Opinions, yup you will get them.
But when the hundreds of opinions all are stating the same things....
Well,.... you should realize there might be a reason, a very valid reason why.

When you look to buy new or used, also understand that most salesman have no clue what all those specialized numbers mean, especially when applied to a horse trailer.._.they just want to make a sale._

Happy shopping and do be safe on the roads traveling with others.
:wave:......

:runninghorse2:....
_jmo.._



​


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Yes, I have not bought a truck, thanks walkinthewalk. I am still in the beginnings of looking. 

I've seen a little trailer carnage myself over the years although thankfully not involving horses. Maybe it is just random, but the two categories they have fallen into are mechanical failure and stupid driving. The former being things like hitches coming undone, the latter being mostly speeding out of control, or forgetting what their turn radius was. Doesn't mean people don't get into jams or ruin their tow vehicle because it is underpowered, of course, just haven't seen it personally. 

In my second time out jaunt with my current rig, I never felt unsafe at all (just slow and pushing the limit of my engine), except once, in a 5 hour round trip. And that was when I was nearly home and a sedan came around the blind curve of a mountain road IN MY LANE going about 70 in a 40 mile an hour zone. I was going 35. Obviously he swerved (and dove into a random side road where I hope he stopped himself without damage to anything). My point being that safety is probably more about driving carefully and successfully avoiding the idiots than it is about power. Not to negate anyone else's points.


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

Most common problem I run into is people pulling out right in front of me because they don't want to be behind the guy pulling a trailer. That's when lots of stopping power is required.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Darrin said:


> Most common problem I run into is people pulling out right in front of me because they don't want to be behind the guy pulling a trailer. That's when lots of stopping power is required.


Yes ------- let me count the times-------


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

walkinthewalk said:


> Yes ------- let me count the times-------


Ha try towing just outside of DC or in MD....I would leave room in front of me for stopping....10 cars "OH LOOK AT ALL THAT ROOM LET ME PULL RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE PERSON TOWING". I swear 99% of the people there just had NO IDEA what towing is like and WHY I tried to leave that much room. Towing out here in Ohio/WV has been soooooooooooooo much nicer.


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

evilamc said:


> Ha try towing just outside of DC or in MD....I would leave room in front of me for stopping....10 cars "OH LOOK AT ALL THAT ROOM LET ME PULL RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE PERSON TOWING". I swear 99% of the people there just had NO IDEA what towing is like and WHY I tried to leave that much room. Towing out here in Ohio/WV has been soooooooooooooo much nicer.


As a whole Oregon drivers are on the polite side but ^^ happens on a frequent basis here too. When it comes to trailers, they lose all their politeness.


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## jimmyp (Sep 5, 2013)

evilamc said:


> Ha try towing just outside of DC or in MD....I would leave room in front of me for stopping....10 cars "OH LOOK AT ALL THAT ROOM LET ME PULL RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE PERSON TOWING". I swear 99% of the people there just had NO IDEA what towing is like and WHY I tried to leave that much room. Towing out here in Ohio/WV has been soooooooooooooo much nicer.


Or right through the middle of NYC and Hartford CT.....


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Heck, I live in northern Arizona in a small town populated mainly by horse people, ranchers, and retirees. I see people drive stupid around horse (and cattle) trailers all the time. I also see people drive stupid _*with*_ horse/cattle trailers all the time. It truly amazes me how ridiculously dumb people can be sometimes.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Heck, I live in northern Arizona in a small town populated mainly by horse people, ranchers, and retirees. I see people drive stupid around horse (and cattle) trailers all the time. I also see people drive stupid _*with*_ horse/cattle trailers all the time. It truly amazes me how ridiculously dumb people can be sometimes.


Word. I wish certain people I know could just ride in one of the trailers they are hauling and get a feel for how their poor horses like it.


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## Chasin Ponies (Dec 25, 2013)

Avna said:


> Word. I wish certain people I know could just ride in one of the trailers they are hauling and get a feel for how their poor horses like it.


Oh, I know so many people I want to throw into the back of a trailer and take for a ride!! No hands allowed too!:wink:


I actually did do this with a couple of lesson students. I put them in the back, told them "no hands" and drove around the driveway once. You should have seen the looks on their faces! Now whenever they see someone hauling a horse trailer, they are checking out the driving skills. It's an incredibly rough ride back there!


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Avna said:


> Thank you all for all your opinions! It's all clear to me now! I absolutely should get a diesel, no need for a diesel, V8, V6, half ton, 3/4ths ton truck. I need large, larger, much larger, as large as possible, but not really! And surely I am going to want a bigger trailer bigger horse more horses living quarters even if I don't now, and then I'll be so glad I have such a big truck.
> 
> My rancher friend who has been driving diesel farm machinery since she could see over the dash, and hauling stock almost that long, told me I didn't need near as much truck as people will tell me. She has an F150 V6 ecoboost that pulls anything she needs pulling, easily. She's always had Fords but recommends I look at the equivalent Dodge as well as she's been hearing good things about the newer ones. She's done more livestock hauling than anybody I know outside of professional haulers so I kinda trust her judgement.
> 
> ...


I am familiar with your trailer because I am a long time Brenderup owner. I have not read all these posts, but most that I have read are recommending huge trucks which you *do not need *for a Brenderup! 

For towing in general, I like to max out at 80% of the vehicle capacity. That is especially true for hills. 

I bought my Brenderup new, and know the towing specks. 

Tow vehicle must have a wheelbase of at least 94 inches. (but longer is nicer) You do not need brake controls on the tow vehicle because the trailer has self-contained inertia breaks. 

The tongue weight is only 200-250 pounds depending on the model Brenderup you have. So your tow vehicle has to be able to handle that weight. 

Mine is a Prestige model weighing 1550 pounds and I tow with my F-150 with a 318 engine rated for 6000 pounds. Has served me well since 2003 when I bought the truck. I just wanted a full size truck to carry other things like lumber, and the price between a F150 and a Ranger was not enough to make the Ranger practical. 

Other Brenderup owners I know have towed with jeeps, Rav4's, etc.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

- I have camped in my Brenderup, been to shows in it, been lots of places in it. Wish I had a 4WD or AWD tow vehicle, because I have gotten stuck in it. Fortunately the trailer can be unhooked from the tow vehicle and pulled away by hand . It was always my truck that got stuck, not the trailer! 

What most folks do not understand is these trailer were designed to be towed by European CARS not trucks. V6 SUV's can pull them just fine. 

They have self-contained inertia brakes, so no need to worry about stopping either folks!


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

AnitaAnne said:


> Mine is a Prestige model weighing 1550 pounds


My horse weighs more than your trailer. :shock:


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

AnitaAnne said:


> I am familiar with your trailer because I am a long time Brenderup owner. I have not read all these posts, but most that I have read are recommending huge trucks which you *do not need *for a Brenderup!
> 
> For towing in general, I like to max out at 80% of the vehicle capacity. That is especially true for hills.
> 
> ...


Because this thread got a bit heated, I didn't want to post my other research . . . I found threads on Chronicle of the Horse about towing Brenderups. The thread goes like this, essentially:

#I have a Brenderup what should I tow it with?

*A BIG truck. Bigger the better. 

^ In Europe there are no big pickups. They haul these trailers with small SUVs and such. Why does she need a big truck?

* Europe has far different conditions, that's why. We need big trucks, they don't. Trust me on this.

# Like what different conditions?

* the venues are much closer together, and the roads are smaller and twistier, and they don't have big mountains, like us. 

^ Have you ever even been to Europe? None of those things are true. The real difference is, gas is really expensive there. 

*I love my truck. You'll be sorry if you don't get a big truck. 

Repeat with variations. 

I also asked my rancher friend about 4WD. She said that people with 4WD get stuck more often than people without it, because they think they can go places they can't. 

I've been stuck and wished I had 4WD. Boggy pastures mainly. I guess I could have just parked on drier ground . . .


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

I tend to disagree about the getting stuck more in a 4 wheel drive......Yes, 4 wheel drives can and do get stuck, and yes, you have to have a little common sense.....but still, 4 wheels pulling is better than one, or two....

I towed with a two wheel drive F-250.....and was headed to the Rice Camp trail head in the Cohutta wilderness area.....so the forest service was good enough to dump about 8 inches of fresh gravel on a pretty steep grade.....

There's a long story to tell behind all this but I'll spare you the details.....now I'm in a F-350 dually, 4 X 4......as I sure the heck don't want to do that again....


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Avna said:


> Because this thread got a bit heated, I didn't want to post my other research . . . I found threads on Chronicle of the Horse about towing Brenderups. The thread goes like this, essentially:
> 
> #I have a Brenderup what should I tow it with?
> 
> ...


hahahaha. People used to gather around to watch me load my Percheron/Arab cross in the trailer. They couldn't believe he would fit. 

Going to post a picture of him in the trailer if I can find it. He was 16 hands and about 1300 pounds. It is in my Album, will see if I can post from there

I got stuck in my backyard when I was backing the truck up to the trailer. We used a winch to pull the truck out. Worked fine. 

Important to have the hitch ball at 17-19 inches from the ground so the trailer will be level.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

http://www.horseforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=565705&stc=1&d=1418800004

Hopefully this is a picture of Baby, my Percheron/Arabian cross gelding in the Brenderup


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Your Brenderup is different than mine, mine's a Baron. What is yours?


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Picture of a Brenderup camping with an SUV - this is not my rig so I don't know what kind of vehicle it is. I do believe it is a 6 cylinder though, but just not sure. 

Picture was made at the 2016 Yellowhammer Endurance ride in Alabama


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

That looks like a Mitsubishi Montero. The late model ones ran a 3.8L V6.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Avna said:


> Your Brenderup is different than mine, mine's a Baron. What is yours?


Mines a Prestige. It was the smallest one (and least expensive) until they came out with the Solo models. Looking for a Picture.

Found one from a trail ride couple of years ago. That is my DD's Arabian/paint gelding. 15 hands


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> That looks like a Mitsubishi Montero. The late model ones ran a 3.8L V6.


I don't know, but I loved his set up. I used to just put a cot in "my stall" when I was by myself. Worked great.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Better pictures

Brenderup and Truck in backyard (not the day I got stuck)

Brenderup and Van. Loved to camp in this but had to sell it

That is my 14.3H RMHA gelding in front of it. He has tons of room in my trailer!


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

AnitaAnne said:


> Important to have the hitch ball at 17-19 inches from the ground so the trailer will be level.


Just to elaborate on the above, hitch height matters with the trailer hanging off the back of the tow vehicle and not the starting height prior to hitching up your trailer. Spring rates are different from vehicle to vehicle which changes how much the vehicle will "squat" when loaded. So a 1 ton pickup will squat less then your typical mid sized SUV which means the hitch drop required between the two will be different to give a level trailer when attached and loaded.


Now as to why the difference in opinions on vehicles, there's a wide gulf in difference between if a vehicle "can" tow a load and if it "should". My car technically can haul a Brenderup but I would never do it for a variety of reasons but mainly because it just plain old wouldn't be safe for me or my horse.


This is where physics meets manufacturers ratings. What do I mean? Say your vehicle is rated to tow a 5000 pound trailer, well that's pretty darn vague isn't it? Is that an 8 foot trailer loaded with 5000 pounds of gravel? Is it a 24 foot travel trailer weighing 5000 pounds? Is it 5000 pounds with a center of gravity 2 feet off the road or 5000 pounds with the center of gravity 8 feet above the road? How about 5000 pounds of dead weight (gravel again) vs. 5000 pounds of tall, live animals moving around restlessly? All these put different stresses on a vehicle and affect how it reacts to the trailer.


Next part of the equation is of course the tow vehicle itself, they are not created equal even though the tow ratings are equal. A crew cab pickup with an 8 foot bed will tow better then the aforementioned mid size SUV. Why? Simply put, the trailer will have more leverage on a mid size SUV then a full sized pickup due to wheel base difference. Heck, not even one ton pickups are created equal. A dually will be more stable under load than a single rear wheel pickup just due to how much rubber is on the road resisting side push from a trailer.


The easy answer is always going to be bigger is better. Once you go small the answer to "Can my vehicle tow a horse trailer" gets complicated in a hurry due to a bunch of factors.


BTW, yes Europeans tow with vehicles most of us consider inadequate and unsafe to pull a horse trailer. Unfortunately they don't exactly have any choice so are not a good comparison to the US where we not only know better we can actually afford (mostly) to buy and fuel vehicles designed to safely tow with.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Oh those suffering ignorant Europeans. Just makes my heart bleed for them.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Avna said:


> Oh those BTW, yes Europeans tow with vehicles most of us consider inadequate and unsafe to pull a horse trailer. . Just makes my heart bleed for them.


I think you lost people with the sarcastic attitude.....
If you meant to be funny, it fell short!
_Rude, nailed it!_

 
Darrins reply.....
He is saying there _are_ truck choices here in the states, Canada and other parts of the world that may *not* be available in Europe.
That said, gas and diesel fuel is more affordable here than in European countries....
Both of those _are_ facts...

Darrin is also correct that a "set hitch height" is *not* right...
Regardless of what you tow your trailer with that hitch needs to be set to the tow vehicle to give the best ride for the trailers occupants, also taking into consideration the weight of those occupants and how you have loaded your trailer.

I was hoping you would of had a open mind to others experiences and opinions, then do your own extensive fact finding journey for a truly safe tow vehicle with proper drive train and engine so your vehicle would last you a long time of safe, worry free and reduced maintenance needs...._

Oh yes,__I *did* read about your trailers aerodynamics.... about your trailers inertia brakes...and your trailer if "newer" now has thicker composite walls instead of fiberglass. 
__I also read that the composite material equated to something like formica...that from several web sites and critiques. Seriously????:shrug:
__Please, I am open to being educated and *nicely* informed of what the walls and trailer construction really is if what I read is wrong....
My comment is *not* meant rudely, but as a honest question....*What is your trailer made from?
*
Those_ *as you wrote*, _"suffering ignorant Europeans" _might not deal with drivers like we have here and road courtesy,* not!*
_Remember all that though when a huge tractor trailer blows past you doing 70+.... or sits on your butt when you're pulling a grade and his air turbulents push you around making you a unsteady rig on the road.
Scary stuff....

I look forward to your answer enlightening all of us about a brand of trailer not many have had contact with obviously.
The why and how come it is such a great trailer and what it is made of that literally allows it to be so lightweight that it is far lighter than aluminum trailers here....but affording such safety for your horse when trailering and traveling.
That all would then equate to not needing a heftier truck, motor, brakes and drivetrain keeping you safe on the roads with others.
Again, __I really do look forward to your answer .....
__I will try hard to not ask to many questions once you do respond...
just looking to read, absorb and learn... 
:runninghorse2:...


  _


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Darren _may be right_ about no set height for a hitch ball on a regular trailer, *but not on a Brenderup*!! 

I got that information directly from the president of Brenderup, (in Texas) Mr. Simon Barr when I purchased the trailer in 1998. The ball must be between 17-19" from the ground for proper balance. 

Once everyone accepts the fact that the Engineering of a Brenderup is not anything like any other trailer, then you can understand the physics of the design. 

Shall I really shock you and mention I don't even own a spare tire for the trailer? :dance-smiley05:


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

I apologize for my comment, which I thought I had deleted. Oh well. But the idea that Europeans are sadly bereft of the safety of big trucks is totally mockable. If anyone can come up with statistics which show how much more dangerous it is for European trailer haulers, I sure would like to see them. 

I learned a great deal from this thread and have saved a lot of the more technical comments for future reference, especially those from Joel Reiter and Darrin. 

Fiberglass trailers are very common in Europe. They are lightweight and very strong. I read up on them extensively before I got mine, and there were many negative comments from US persons. Interestingly, virtually all of those comments was made by someone who had never experienced them. Maybe saw one or looked inside one, at best. I think I found one person who didn't like their actual experience, but it was clear that something had gone wrong with the trailer, it was not set up correctly or something. Everyone who owned one, loved it.

Very generally, the US approach to trailer design has been to configure a steel box on wheels with very little regard for weight -- hence the need for big trucks to pull them. The European approach has been to use clever design and materials to create an aerodynamic box as light as is commensurate with safety, which can be pulled by vehicles with a lighter carbon footprint. These two approaches are foreign to each other, and are due to deep cultural differences. It is, in my opinion, this cultural chasm, not any practical reason, which has kept European type trailers off the US market by and large. 

I thank everyone for their responses and opinions. Again, I apologize for being snarky, it is a defect of mine.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

I thought production of the Brenderup was discontinued in the States.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

OK, I will accept that you really want to learn and address a few of your concerns/questions. 

As an owner of a Brenderup since 1998 and prior to that the owner of a 16' steel stock trailer, do you believe I am qualified to answer you? Or will this just turn into more folks telling me I have no idea what I am talking about? 



horselovinguy said:


> I think you lost people with the sarcastic attitude.....
> If you meant to be funny, it fell short!
> _Rude, nailed it!_




Often one turns to sarcasm when folks continue to say things that have no bearing on the situation. 

It does not matter if there are trucks available, cheaper gas, or anything like that because the Brenderup was not designed for those things and they are not needed. 




horselovinguy said:


> Oh yes,[/I]





horselovinguy said:


> _I *did* read about your trailers aerodynamics.... about your trailers inertia brakes...and your trailer if "newer" now has thicker composite walls instead of fiberglass.
> __I also read that the composite material equated to something like formica...that from several web sites and critiques. Seriously????:shrug:
> __Please, I am open to being educated and *nicely* informed of what the walls and trailer construction really is if what I read is wrong....
> My comment is *not* meant rudely, but as a honest question....*What is your trailer made from?
> ...


_*

So nice to hear that you have educated yourself on these unique characteristics of the Brenderup trailers! 

So to answer your question, different trailers walls are made out of different materials! Mine, being one of the earlier ones, is a 7 layer plywood style with the outer surface wood and the inner rubber. Not exactly sure what the other 5 layers are, because I never asked 

Some of the newest ones are a very similar material to a SOLID laminate. Do you remember in science class when you would work in the lab doing experiments? That counter top was likely the same material as the newer Brenderups. 

Why did they keep changing? Because Americans want BIGGER, BADDER, STRONGER. NOT because any of the prior products used failed. 


**


horselovinguy said:



[/FONTRemember all that though when a huge tractor trailer blows past you doing 70+.... or sits on your butt when you're pulling a grade and his air turbulents push you around making you a unsteady rig on the road.
Scary stuff....



Click to expand...



Since I have driven both a steel stock trailer and have been a passenger in many goosenecks and other bumper pulls; I know exactly what you mean about that SCARY STUFF when a Tractor Trailer flies by doing 80mph. 

After all, I have driven through Atlanta pulling a trailer with 6 lanes of traffic on each side of the road!! 

Thank GOD for my Brenderup because it doesn't EVER feel that! Actually, I sway more in my truck without my trailer than I do with it 

Thank you for reading in the interest of education *_


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

sarahfromsc said:


> I thought production of the Brenderup was discontinued in the States.


Unfortunately this is true. Sadly their website went down without warning early in 2012. Was very disappointed because I was looking to trade up to a bigger model.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

There are still a moderate number of used Brenderups for sale in the US, and there is one company in New Hampshire which imports parts for them. My Baron had been sitting unused outside for 9 years when I got it -- basically nothing wrong with it, just needed new tires and some of the gasketing around the doors could use replacing. It was covered with lichen! Which just scrubbed off leaving the surface unmarred. The Dutch company was bought out and they got out of the horse trailer business altogether (they still make other types of trailers under the Brenderup brand). There are also some other European makers operating in the US now. Haven't looked into them much but I know they exist. 

My Brenderup is made of heavy, stiff fiberglass laminate with plexiglass windows. It does not feel flimsy. Boat-building uses this technology. The surfaces are very smooth and easily cleaned -- they are sort of like formica I guess. They aren't painted. The fittings of the trailer are cast aluminum.

I sold my nearly-new fiberglass Scamp 'egg' house trailer in order to buy my horse trailer. Similar technology. This kind of construction is far more durable than sheet steel. There are lots of these house trailers from the 1970's and 80's still on the road. They don't rust and rarely leak. I expect to get many years out of my Brenderup.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Avna said:


> There are still a moderate number of used Brenderups for sale in the US, and there is one company in New Hampshire which imports parts for them. My Baron had been sitting unused outside for 9 years when I got it -- basically nothing wrong with it, just needed new tires and some of the gasketing around the doors could use replacing. It was covered with lichen! Which just scrubbed off leaving the surface unmarred. The Dutch company was bought out and they got out of the horse trailer business altogether (they still make other types of trailers under the Brenderup brand). There are also some other European makers operating in the US now. Haven't looked into them much but I know they exist.
> 
> My Brenderup is made of heavy, stiff fiberglass laminate with plexiglass windows. It does not feel flimsy. Boat-building uses this technology. The surfaces are very smooth and easily cleaned -- they are sort of like formica I guess. They aren't painted. The fittings of the trailer are cast aluminum.
> 
> I sold my nearly-new fiberglass Scamp 'egg' house trailer in order to buy my horse trailer. Similar technology. This kind of construction is far more durable than sheet steel. There are lots of these house trailers from the 1970's and 80's still on the road. They don't rust and rarely leak. I expect to get many years out of my Brenderup.


That was a lucky find! They do better if kept under cover which I why I put up a carport. Also better to leave the upper flap open in the back as much as possible. Only close it in storms. 

Do you have pictures of yours? Would love to see some


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

This isn't my trailer but same model. Two horse. Stall divider can be taken out and a full width bumper bar put in to make a single box. Has a pretty good tack room that you can stand up in (manger flips up to provide headroom). Rear door becomes a ramp -- which I don't like, I would rather have a step in. But we're adjusting.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Wow, I didn't realize vehicle suggestions could get so heated!

OP, are you any closer to making a decision? :O


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Avna said:


> View attachment 787681
> 
> 
> This isn't my trailer but same model. Two horse. Stall divider can be taken out and a full width bumper bar put in to make a single box. Has a pretty good tack room that you can stand up in (manger flips up to provide headroom). Rear door becomes a ramp -- which I don't like, I would rather have a step in. But we're adjusting.


Have seen that ad, not sure it is real because they are advertising it in every state. 

Is the tack room uncomfortable to stand in? Just not sure there is very much space in it. 

I love ramps, especially the Brenderup because it is so long @ 5'. Mine doesn't have a tack room, which has always been it's only failing. Was why I was planning to trade up. 

Every time I tow my trailer I remember how much I love it. Would hate to have to buy a different brand and have to deal with all that sway again. 

Really liked the guy's rig I saw at the Yellowhammer. That trailer didn't have the separate tack area, it was just located on the front end. Tons of space for lots of things.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Thank-you for the reply.
I do find it a learning curve to see what others tow, why, how they are made and hold up to "wear-and-tear" of road and horse.

I can't tell you what link I saw it on but it was written that the Brenderup trailers are in Texas being manufactured...
I don't know how old that link was, nor if it is "real" Brenderup, or the new companies version. 
You mentioned other trailers still being made under that byline, maybe them??

Regardless, thank-you for the information. 
The writing and sharing of it with me _without_ negativity....

I do have a question.....sorry...
The inertia brakes system....
I have brakes on each wheel of my trailers, so 4 wheels = 4 brakes for stopping.
Does your trailer have brakes on each wheel?
I know in some states you can't sell a trailer that carries over a certain weight without 4 wheel brakes, or actually every axle has working brakes... 

I think our boat trailer had inertia brakes, maybe surge brakes....idk...
I know that it was a single axle trailer and the brakes were "not so good" :icon_rolleyes:
More like how fast can I push you around...:x

:runninghorse2:.....


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

horselovinguy said:


> Thank-you for the reply.
> I do find it a learning curve to see what others tow, why, how they are made and hold up to "wear-and-tear" of road and horse.
> 
> I can't tell you what link I saw it on but it was written that the Brenderup trailers are in Texas being manufactured...
> ...


Brakes are on all 4 wheels. The inertia brakes are different from the surge brakes, but not sure the mechanics of it. It also has an emergency brake which is activated if the trailer becomes detached from the tow vehicle. 

You can also set the handle of the emergency brake if you are on a hill and detached from the tow vehicle, but not advised to use it all the time.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Let me add something about the brakes; I never think about them. They activate when I need them and they don't when I don't. 

Have never had to do anything with them. Zero maintenance.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

AnitaAnne said:


> Let me add something about the brakes; I never think about them. They activate when I need them and they don't when I don't.
> 
> Have never had to do anything with them. Zero maintenance.


same here. I'd be liking your posts if the like button worked.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Avna said:


> same here. I'd be liking your posts if the like button worked.


Had the same problem. Finally gave in and went to the classic view. Like button works in Classic.


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

I have an F150 V8 extended cab long bed for my daily driving, trips to Lowe's & TSC, etc. It can carry 20 bales of hay in the bed, two saddles in the back, Son and I up front. I can pull a 3 horse stock with 2 horses in it, but I do lose oomph on grades. For local hauling - like to the vet or local trails, it's great.

I also have an F250 V8 crew cab 4x4 long bed with goose neck hitch and heavier duty shocks. It is my Son's daily drive, but he doesn't log half the miles I do. Compared to this truck, my truck is a race car. But. My Son does dialysis 3 times a week, regardless of weather, so when the roads are icy, that 4W drive is a literal life-saver. 

My horse trailer is a steel 3h slant GN with living quarters. It's heavy. When I went to pick up Tango, the F250 never missed a beat up or back, and Tango is pretty close to 1000 lbs. 

For what you need, my F250 (2004) would be too much... My F150 (it's a 2007) would probably be perfect. A little more than you usually need, but that little extra is super nice when you need it. Like Sarah said, the extended cab is great for tack, groceries, the dog, you name it. It isn't great for passengers unless they are younger grandkids.

The only thing I'd do different with my F150 is I'd love to have 4WD. Most of the time I don't need it, but that once or twice a year when it snows, or when I think the pasture is dry enough.... yeah.

BTW, both my trucks have about 125,000 miles on them and run great.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Zexious said:


> Wow, I didn't realize vehicle suggestions could get so heated!
> 
> OP, are you any closer to making a decision? :O


Well, the Ford F150 with 'ecoboost' and a 'supercab' instead of a crew cab is holding my attention. The V6 comes in two engine sizes . . . and then there's the bed size, 4wd or no . . . I don't have to make a decision right away because, guess what, I don't really have the money yet. Also I can do okay with my Tundra for awhile. Don't think I want to go to the big mountains with it, but there's plenty of new ground for me within 30 miles of my house. 

It's evolving . . . thanks for asking!


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

*Our truck*

This is what we use for towing. I think its important to look at what you going to be towing long term. You might only need a basic model in most trucks. This is our truck to haul our horse trailer. The horses we load are big horses, not your average QH or tb.


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## goneriding (Jun 6, 2011)

AnitaAnne said:


> Let me add something about the brakes; I never think about them. They activate when I need them and they don't when I don't.
> 
> Have never had to do anything with them. Zero maintenance.


You might want to pull your tires and have a look. There is maintenance on brakes. There is maintenance on bearings as well.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

I now have something to compare to my diesel superduty, which is at the mechanics, darn fuel injectors need replacing. Anyways, I had a show to go to, just 7 miles to town, then lessons the next day. I used my hubby's 1/2 ton V8, it has the factory tow package. What a gutless piece of junk! Now I remember what it feels like to haul a horse trailer with a gas engine, it feels flimsy, it's a regular box too, my diesel is a long box, this feel unstable compared to that. I don't see how anyone in their right mind would haul with this when a full size diesel makes the whole process solid. I felt if a deer ran out in front of me, I would not be able to veer around stably as I have with the big diesel going 90K down a mountain, with this 1/2, I would've wrecked. And to think for years I hauled with gas truck, albeit 3/4 tons, but still I remember that crap feeling of flimsy. Never, ever again!


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