# 11 things you did not and will not learn in school



## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

So true!


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## Jake and Dai (Aug 15, 2008)

I especially love #1!


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## LetAGrlShowU (Mar 25, 2009)

love this


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

so right on so many levels!!! haha some of them made me laugh


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

My first part time job was at 7 exercising party ponies - $5 a pony.
First full time job at 13 as a nanny - 45 hours a week - $75 a week
At 16 I was a full time waitress - 50 hours a week - $250 a week

I got straight A's, took care of my parents home and meals, rode my horse
4 days a week, and got a partial college scholarship. My reward, a beat up VW
rabbit and they didn't snuff out my lights when I got onery!

These darn nintendo/FB/ipod kids don't have a CLUE about life! And they think they can
change the world? Good luck!


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## LetAGrlShowU (Mar 25, 2009)

Full time nanny for $75/week? Hope they were your siblings. you could make 4k a month doing that now


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## amp23 (Jan 6, 2011)

Ahhh I heard #11 all the time in school! Completely agree with all of them though, soo true


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

No, a darling little girl, she was 6mos. old when I started. That was almost 20 years ago! I was a responsible kid but looking back at how young I was those people were CRAZY! I never messed up and cooked better meals for her than her parents! They had tons of money, they bought me saddles for christmas presents etc. Now ONLY MY PARENTS watch my kid, I wouldn't trust most 13 year olds as far as I could toss em!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Kitten, I think you need to post this over in the Teen Talk section of the BB.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Good idea Speed, make it a sticky there


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

With big, neon, flashing letters! :rofl:


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## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

I find older people criticizing young people somewhat ironic. Who raised this generation? Truthfully, no one. In alot of cases anyhow. You can't raise kids in front of TV's and expect better than what you see on TV..........


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## Kiviknon (Jul 26, 2010)

I made 10 grand when I got out of high school. Then was asked to go and fight in a senseless war for that amount.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## xeventer17 (Jan 26, 2009)

I'm sorry, but I feel the need to comment. As much as I do agree with all eleven of the points, I don't appreciate reading pointless, senseless, comments about how weak and unprepared for the world the younger generation is by the people who raised us. If the older generation wasn't so lazy about raising children and had never started plopping their kids down in front of the TV and giving them videos games, there would be no issue. So please, keep your petty comments to yourself unless you're willing to try to make a difference. I, personally, am an 18 year old pre-vet student going to school full-time and working three separate jobs. I completely support myself, yet I am somehow a part of "These darn nintendo/FB/ipod kids" who "don't have a CLUE about life!" Yes, I was raised with electronics... Heck one of my three jobs is at gamestop, but I like to think I'm doing a pretty **** good job for myself and the people I care about. And I know for a fact that I'm doing better than a large portion of your older "we can do no harm" generation. So please, keep your snide remarks to yourself. It's not our fault you're not young anymore.


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

Oh don't take it so personally! You are an exception to the rule, and I'm sure a GREAT responsible person. 
I was a latch key kid, from a divorced family, raised in the 80's/90's!
So I'm not actually that old. My generation was the beginning of the breakdown! I see what technology and crashing moral values have done to so many people, my friends and family. The topic is 11 things you did not and will not learn in school, you have to admit you see people your age who are addicted to the media, are not as savy about life as you seem to be, and have the "gimmie now" complex due to BAD PARENTING, lack of respect, low standards, and the high self esteem pat you on the back good for at least trying mentality. Say it ain't so? Sorry, it IS just like our/your generation to blame their parents for EVERYTHING.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## xeventer17 (Jan 26, 2009)

My problem with the generalized attacks is that ALL generations look down on the younger generations and say similar things. Hell, we were all raised by the hippie generation. What do you think their previous generation said about them... I'll tell you. The SAME things. Because, for some reason, the older a person gets the harder time they have dealing with changes in society. Just because it's different doesn't mean it's necessarily bad. I do agree that children are definitely babied these days. Some of the laws regarding treatment of children and how pc the media has to be, I think, are ridiculous. But who's to say our generation isn't innovative and generally intelligent. We may be babied in some ways, but in others we are put under immense pressure that would be hard for anyone to handle. Since when is college a necessity no matter what? What happened to trades? I may be going to college myself, but only so that later in life I can get into vet school... a TRADE school. Times have changed and expectations have risen. I believe it is entirely inappropriate to bash younger generations about the way they handle pressures that you've never been put through. 

I do apologize about my previous post. It was an unnecessarily heated response, but this is an issue that really gets under my skin.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Eventer, the problem is that for every one of you out there, there are 10 people who are late teens or twenty-somethings sitting in mom's basement eating cheetos whose *** has such an imprint in the couch that it would take a forklift to pry them out of it. Those people who can't be away from the computer or video game station for more than 5 minutes without going through withdrawals.

Most of the people who ***** about lazy, good for nothing kids are ones that either raised _good_ kids or haven't had kids at all.

I am also usually considered a part of the ipod generation, though I am a bit older than you. I also worked my *** off for everything I've got, worked crappy jobs and busted my *** in school. But I am not so naive that I can turn a blind eye to the fact that most of my generation and younger are getting more and more and more mommy-daddy reliant. The prisons are getting more and more packed by kids that think the world owes them something just for being born...forget _working_ for it.

It's not wholly the fault of the parents either, though they aren't trying too hard to fix things. Lawyers run amok, chasing ambulances and seeking out clients to talk into filing lawsuits over every stupid thing under the sun, schools teach kids to call CPS or 911 if their parents ever pop them on the *** for misbehaving. Parents are brainwashed that corporal punishment isn't a "proper" parenting technique and if you spank your kid for talking back or lying, then it's flat out abuse. 

Even those parents that still believe in spanking are held in check by the fear of being reported if they correct their child in public because some tree-loving hippie type thinks that junior didn't deserve the swat...even though he was screaming at the top of his lungs and throwing things off shelves because mommy wouldn't let him have a sucker.

Whew....stepping off my soapbox now.


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## xeventer17 (Jan 26, 2009)

I understand your reasoning, but most of your points apply only to the US. Other countries don't have nearly the same problems with prison overcrowding and ridiculous laws. I'm not saying my generation is amazing, hell, I'm pretty tough when it comes to my beliefs. I believe wholeheartedly in natural selection -If you can't survive by yourself then you're not worth my time - but I also believe that today's (at least this country's) younger generation shouldn't be punished for the ways their parents raised them. If you want to solve a problem you can't just punish the problem, you need to address what caused the problem and fix that as well.

ETA: I tend to keep to myself around the forum, but I wanted to add that I wholeheartedly respect your opinions, smrobs. You have proved time and again your wealth of knowledge and intelligence. Please don't take me disagreeing with you as me disrespecting you. I enjoy debate, especially when it comes to things that I feel strongly about, and I never mean to disrespect anybody.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

, no problem at all!! I am also all for a healthy debate. If everyone had the exact same views and opinions, the world would be boring.

I completely agree with what you're saying though. It's not just the kids, it's the parents, and a whole host of other things that contribute to what our society has become. Unfortunately, I don't foresee things getting better in the future either without some form of horrific catastrophe.

Anyway, enough of this serious talk :wink:. KV, thank you for posting this, it was thoroughly enjoyable...I just wish I had his smarts. Maybe then I could be a gozillionair too :rofl:.


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## xeventer17 (Jan 26, 2009)

Very very true. 

I just plan on winning the lottery ;]


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

Agree!
If you are talking about pressure and society try keeping a family busines based on tourism afloat in this economy, RAISING CHILDREN under these restrictions, morals, and having to CONSTANTLY shield them from all this insanity. Did you spend your first 10 years of life in a trailer park wondering if you could find a bag of ramen noodles for breakfast? How many years did you spend wearing the same taped up pair of tennis shoes? I know pressure.
I wasn't trying to age bash, but it's kinda the truth.

You are doing a great job, keep it up and be an example to others that working hard will get you further than mooching.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Oh, to be so lucky!! I guess I would have to buy a ticket first, though, huh? ROFL


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## xeventer17 (Jan 26, 2009)

Nah, just be lucky enough to find one laying in the street ;] I'm guilty of buying scratch off tickets once in a while (went a bit crazy the week I turned 18) but I've never purchased a true lottery ticket myself.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

xeventer17 said:


> I'm sorry, but I feel the need to comment. As much as I do agree with all eleven of the points, I don't appreciate reading pointless, senseless, comments about how weak and unprepared for the world the younger generation is by the people who raised us. If the older generation wasn't so lazy about raising children and had never started plopping their kids down in front of the TV and giving them videos games, there would be no issue. So please, keep your petty comments to yourself unless you're willing to try to make a difference. I, personally, am an 18 year old pre-vet student going to school full-time and working three separate jobs. I completely support myself, yet I am somehow a part of "These darn nintendo/FB/ipod kids" who "don't have a CLUE about life!" Yes, I was raised with electronics... Heck one of my three jobs is at gamestop, but I like to think I'm doing a pretty **** good job for myself and the people I care about. And I know for a fact that I'm doing better than a large portion of your older "we can do no harm" generation. So please, keep your snide remarks to yourself. It's not our fault you're not young anymore.


I highly doubt ANY of the other individuals who posted on this thread had a thing to do with raising you. 

The ONLY people I am responsible for raising are MY children. My children haven't a clue what Facebook is, they do not have Ipods or any other variety of music player, they do not nor will they ever have a TV in their room and neither have a cellphone. They do have a Wii, which might get turned on 1x a month if that and only because they think it's hilarious to watch Mom and Dad compete against each other in the various sport games. They each have a computer, the clunky desktop variety (as in pretty ancient ones that used to be mine) that they use for schoolwork.

I do not plop my children in front of a TV. My children are up at 6am, feeding their chickens, goats & dog by 6:30am and on the school bus at 6:55 to return home at 4:20pm. Then it's homework, off to check on, feed and water all their animals, dinner, baths and bedtime. Squeeze in choir 1x per week, basketball 3x per week and whatever else we've got going on. Weekends they can be found helping with all the extra chores. This IS the norm. for children around here. The school secretary doesn't even blink when I sign my kiddos into school late because they were up until Midnight hauling hay before the rain started and I let them sleep in. 

And yes it IS their fault I'm not young any more. I used to have sanity, now I go running outside to find out why I have two howling banshees in fear that the coyotes that have been roaming the property have attacked them. Nope.... the younger kiddo had the *good* flashlight, so the older one conked her over the head and snatched it, so the lil one booted her in the shin. :roll: I used to actually sleep, now I go to bed at 2am after finishing up at work to be awakened at 6am to Mommy, Mommy, Mommy, we forgot to close the gate, the pigs got out and they're chasing the chickens! SAVE our chickens Mommy!!


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Speed Racer said:


> Kitten, I think you need to post this over in the Teen Talk section of the BB.


I think you are right!


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

xeventer17 said:


> I understand your reasoning, but most of your points apply only to the US. Other countries don't have nearly the same problems with prison overcrowding and ridiculous laws.


Eventer, first of all it's definitely not applicable to EVERY kid, BUT unfortunately there are lots out there with that attitude that they are too good complarable to everyone else or who don't want to start low-paid jobs etc. I'm sorry to say so, but I saw it in companies I worked for and in my friends families (and it pops up at almost every forum I go to). Moreover as s person who lived in several countries during my life, have relatives and friends in several countries, and very familiar with the life there I have to say YES, those statements seem to be applicable to lots kids in (at least some) other countries too. Sad, but true. However I also have to say that often it's a parents fault the kid has such an attitude. And unfortunately those with attitude make an impression that the whole generation is like them.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

smrobs said:


> I just wish I had his smarts. Maybe then I could be a gozillionair too :rofl:.


Well... I've heard not so good stories about how he started (although he's very smart and great businessman - no doubt on that!), so... Better be who you are (as long as you enjoy what you are doing)! :wink: Or play the lottery (although I don't believe in those at all :lol: )!


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## Kiviknon (Jul 26, 2010)

kitten_Val said:


> Well... I've heard not so good stories about how he started (although he's very smart and great businessman - no doubt on that!), so... Better be who you are (as long as you enjoy what you are doing)! :wink: Or play the lottery (although I don't believe in those at all :lol: )!



Play the state lottery, Powerball and Mega Millions the odds are too high.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Kiviknon said:


> Play the state lottery, Powerball and Mega Millions the odds are too high.


Are you saying you won any? :wink: I played once in 2-3 months when I was taking metro to commute (because they sold the tickets at the station), but I never won even $1!


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## Kiviknon (Jul 26, 2010)

kitten_Val said:


> Are you saying you won any? :wink: I played once in 2-3 months when I was taking metro to commute (because they sold the tickets at the station), but I never won even $1!


No, but I know my chances for winning are greater at 1:2,300,000 vs 1:232,000,000


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Kiviknon said:


> No, but I know my chances for winning are greater at 1:2,300,000 vs 1:232,000,000


Let us know when you win one! We all will join the party!


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## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

FlyGap said:


> have the "gimmie now" complex due to BAD PARENTING, lack of respect, low standards, and the high self esteem pat you on the back good for at least trying mentality. Say it ain't so? Sorry, it IS just like our/your generation to blame their parents for EVERYTHING.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 

I agree about the feel good garbage but the REAL gimmie generation is refered to as the greatest generation by alot of people. Which is strange. Look at how the oldest (and most wealthy)generation DEMANDS free prescription drugs. Look at how many take from social security much more than they ever put in. In alot of cases they put in nothing. My grandmother never payed a dime into social security yet gets a check every month. It's not my job as a tax payer to support people who planned poorly for life. I feel, as a christian, I need to support widows and the less fortunate but it's very hard when the government takes so much. Medicare is a scam. Government should not be trying to replace churches and charities. If God only needs 10% why would the government need more?



PS: They also are the generation who raised the hippies. The worst group of people this country ever has seen.


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

I agree with you on several points! Especially the part about welfare and God!

But the generation who came from the hippies still went to work right after high school, got married early, and were adults. Now their kids are the ones who are crying about paying off their HUGE student loans, think because their parents are well off they should be too, and "generally" leech off their parents refusing to "flip burgers" to make ends meet. My brother and his friends (mid to late 20's) are the perfect example. He is an Uber gamer, married with two kids, and still mooching off mom and dad. He's only 4 years younger than I am but he has a TOTALLY different mind set than I do and we were both raised with the same standards. Fortunately I got into horses and he into gaming and trouble. I worked my tail off starting at 7, he played games and was content sitting around doing NOTHING and having nothing. He prescribed to the "My childhood was hard, poor me! My dad left me! Boo Hoo!" mentality which runs rampant now! I follow the "pull yourself up by your boot straps" mantra which we've all heard is just too much to ask from the average joe. The generation that "pulled themselves up by their bootstraps" came out of the depression and helped set up the INCREDIBLE technological revolution that we are enjoying just by using this forum... Should anyone get a "free ride", heck no! They want a cause and handouts when they are 100% capable of taking care of themselves and enjoying the freedom and CAPITALISM of this country. It's HILARIOUS how the rioters are getting mad because the homeless are coming to eat the free food they are preparing, cause "Hey man! You aren't doing anything, you can't have our food!"

You can get a lot further with a ladder than you can with crutches, climb up outta your hole and get on with it. 

I work with thousands of of people every year, mostly Hippies. I've had the 20 somethings attack my business trying to walk in with a dream and steal my hard work in a matter of weeks, cause "hey man, I just wanna do what you did, man you're my hero!" They didn't realize or even slightly comprehend that it took 10 years of working two jobs, 24/7, going without, staying up night after night trying to figure out if we were going to eat or pay a bill just to keep the business going. They want INSTANT gratification and success, like what was listed in the 11 things. Not all "younger" people prescribe to this thinking, but a great majority do.
The older, TRUE hippies believe in smaller gov, self preservation, and the ones I know raised EXCELLENT kids who believe the same way you do.


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## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

If you are young and conservative you don't have a heart. If you are old and liberal you don't have a brain. -unknown (I've seen it attributed to winston churchill but I don't think it's his)

I live about as far in the middle of knowhere that a person can in the lower 48 and I understand life is different here but I truely believe the problem is parenting. You can't hold a person any more responsible for bad training as you could a horse. I pay 600 dollars a month for my kids to go to private school and I guarantee they don't watch an hour of TV per week. Garbage in, garbage out as they say. All we can do is raise our kids the right way and hope the liberals don't completely destroy our country before our kids are too old to make a difference.


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

Bearkiller said:


> If you are young and conservative you don't have a heart. If you are old and liberal you don't have a brain. -unknown (I've seen it attributed to winston churchill but I don't think it's his)
> 
> I live about as far in the middle of knowhere that a person can in the lower 48 and I understand life is different here but I truely believe the problem is parenting. You can't hold a person any more responsible for bad training as you could a horse. I pay 600 dollars a month for my kids to go to private school and I guarantee they don't watch an hour of TV per week. Garbage in, garbage out as they say. All we can do is raise our kids the right way and hope the liberals don't completely destroy our country before our kids are too old to make a difference.


I live exactly the same way, our kid goes to a small private Christian school.
Watches mostly nature videos, and spends her time painting, working outside, and riding her pony. I only go to town once every two weeks because we are so far out.
Pat on the back, and hang in there! Hopefully our kids won't have to suffer too much being raised different than the "norm".


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Bearkiller said:


> I agree about the feel good garbage but the REAL gimmie generation is refered to as the greatest generation by alot of people. Which is strange. Look at how the oldest (and most wealthy)generation DEMANDS free prescription drugs. Look at how many take from social security much more than they ever put in. In alot of cases they put in nothing. My grandmother never payed a dime into social security yet gets a check every month. It's not my job as a tax payer to support people who planned poorly for life. I feel, as a christian, I need to support widows and the less fortunate but it's very hard when the government takes so much. Medicare is a scam. Government should not be trying to replace churches and charities. If God only needs 10% why would the government need more?
> 
> 
> 
> PS: They also are the generation who raised the hippies. The worst group of people this country ever has seen.


Why God needs 10%? Why God needs ANYTHING except your open heart? My understanding of God is very different from yours obvously. 

As for SS there are different situations. Some people are handicapped all their life. Some people can't put into retirement if you make just $10-14K/year (and some people do, someone have to clean up the building and restrooms, and they are paid very little, you know). Plus there are housewifes taking care of kids and house while hubby works. How come those should be left behind? I do agree all those Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare, you name it should be re-considered and be way more strict, but if my parents would be forced to buy full insurance they would be left without pants on (they are NOT on Medicare BTW). I suggest you to check out insurance rates when you are after 50 years old (and co-payment/deductibles). 

BTW, I'm totally appalled this discussion turned into religion, politics, etc...


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## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

kitten_Val said:


> Why God needs 10%? Why God needs ANYTHING except your open heart? My understanding of God is very different from yours obvously.
> 
> As for SS there are different situations. Some people are handicapped all their life. Some people can't put into retirement if you make just $10-14K/year (and some people do, someone have to clean up the building and restrooms, and they are paid very little, you know). Plus there are housewifes taking care of kids and house while hubby works. How come those should be left behind? I do agree all those Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare, you name it should be re-considered and be way more strict, but if my parents would be forced to buy full insurance they would be left without pants on (they are NOT on Medicare BTW). I suggest you to check out insurance rates when you are after 50 years old (and co-payment/deductibles).
> 
> BTW, I'm totally appalled this discussion turned into religion, politics, etc...


 
Well, I believe that Christians are encouraged to tithe 10%. I don't believe that it's a commandment but that's what's asked. The government takes much more. I can give you several different verses on that but they're pretty easy to find so I'll not bore EVERYONE with that. Sorry if your understanding of God doesn't include tithing. 


The idea that people need help isn't a new one. I have no problem with helping people. However, I don't think the government should TAKE money from the work I have done and give it to someone else. It should be my choice. Especially when they give it to so many blatantly evil organizations. EI: planned parent hood. Social security isn't even constitutional. I know all there is to know about making 10-14K per year. There have been years I've made almost nothing, as an adult. I also know that as a high school drop out, you can go on and make 6 digit incomes if you want to work. I know what it's like to work 120 hours in a single week. I know what it's like to work 48+ hours straight with out ever leaving the job site. I also know what it's like to be on the phone with my wife and have my little girl ask in the back ground "Mommy, where does daddy live?" while I was out of town working. While this sounds sad, to me it's a success story. I made mistakes when I was young but I was able to WORK my way out of them and provide a good life for my family. Now I work m-f 8-5 and make a decent living. I get to coach my kids in sports and send them to a very good school. Because of work. Not because of a government hand out. Social security for people who didn't pay into it is welfare. Including alot of people in my family. If the government didn't subsidize precriptions, the price would come down because people wouldn't buy them(supply and demand). Alot of them are dangerous anyway. The governments "help" hurts everyone. Let's not forget, older people are the WEALTHIEST segment of the population.



BTW, where else would a conversation like this belong if not in the "general off topic discussion" section of the forum.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Bearkiller said:


> BTW, where else would a conversation like this belong if not in the "general off topic discussion" section of the forum.


I'd suggest to start new thread.  Because I think it's kinda irrelevant to the current one. I'd be happy to argue/discuss it in separate discussion. I do agree with part of what you said, BTW, not not everything. :wink:


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## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

snopes.com: Some Rules Kids Won't Learn in School


Just for the record.


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

Thank you Eventer and Bearkiller, for taking the words out of my mouth.

OF COURSE there are lazy, tech-obsessed kids in my generation. But it is more than unfair to put all of our generation in to one nasty generalization.

Like eventer, I am also a full-time college student studying pre-vet. I worked off my ever-loving rear to raise my GPA enough to be accepted to the college of my choice.

My GPA from senior year was a 4.3.

I'm now working my butt off in school, trying to make the Dean's List. 

Also, are we forgetting the technology obsessed in the older generations? Probably 80% of my friends' parents have Facebooks and iPhones.
Just because it was developed in our time doesn't mean everyone else isn't engulfed in it, too.

Anyway! Love the list. Very true.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Bearkiller said:


> Well, I believe that Christians are encouraged to tithe 10%. I don't believe that it's a commandment but that's what's asked.



It is "encouraged" by the people leading the church to pay for sometimes opulent livelihoods. Tele evangelists chap my hide using christian guilt to pay for amazing lifestyles. They need it less than the govt, IMO. The church doesn't pave the roads, build the bridges, train and pay the military...I could go on. God does not say our salvation is through any building (church) or any leader demanding money. Just my opinion, here.



> The government takes much more. I can give you several different verses on that but they're pretty easy to find so I'll not bore EVERYONE with that. Sorry if your understanding of God doesn't include tithing.


You can find verses that support many different things, like killing wives for talking back to their husbands and selling children into slavery.

I worship God every time I see a mountain, look at a growing tree, see a horse galloping across a field. These things God gives me for free to appreciate. You show me a verse that says only through tithing will you find God.




> The idea that people need help isn't a new one. I have no problem with helping people. However, I don't think the government should TAKE money from the work I have done and give it to someone else. It should be my choice.


We would have a lot of people starving to death on the streets, if we soley depended on the largess of the few. After tithing 10%, what would many people have to give others AND look after their own retirements. We always find excuses not to give, IME.



> Especially when they give it to so many blatantly evil organizations. EI: planned parent hood.


Only your opinion, there. 



> Social security isn't even constitutional. I know all there is to know about making 10-14K per year. There have been years I've made almost nothing, as an adult. I also know that as a high school drop out, you can go on and make 6 digit incomes if you want to work. I know what it's like to work 120 hours in a single week. I know what it's like to work 48+ hours straight with out ever leaving the job site. I also know what it's like to be on the phone with my wife and have my little girl ask in the back ground "Mommy, where does daddy live?" while I was out of town working. While this sounds sad, to me it's a success story. I made mistakes when I was young but I was able to WORK my way out of them and provide a good life for my family. Now I work m-f 8-5 and make a decent living. I get to coach my kids in sports and send them to a very good school. Because of work. Not because of a government hand out.


And this is admirable. It is always nice to be blessed with good health and people who guide them along. 



> Social security for people who didn't pay into it is welfare. Including alot of people in my family. If the government didn't subsidize precriptions, the price would come down because people wouldn't buy them(supply and demand).


Well, the people needing them and who couldn't pay for them would die. So, demand may flag, keeping the supply limited. I will absolutely agree that the system needs reworking, but not ditched.



> Alot of them are dangerous anyway. The governments "help" hurts everyone. *Let's not forget, older people are the WEALTHIEST segment of the population.*


Umm, only a few older people fit into this category. MOST are not so well off, my friend. I don't know how you could even think to type that statement.





> BTW, where else would a conversation like this belong if not in the "general off topic discussion" section of the forum.


True.

While I will be the first to say all of our entitlements AND the welfare system needs some strong reworking, I am not for dumping it. I am not up to the book it would take for me to try to explain why and how, though. I'm tired and I have had a long rough day.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

xeventer17 said:


> I understand your reasoning, but most of your points apply only to the US. Other countries don't have nearly the same problems with prison overcrowding and ridiculous laws.



Wow, you don't travel much, do you. I have traveled to many corners of the world, and you are dead wrong with that statement.




> I believe wholeheartedly in natural selection -If you can't survive by yourself then you're not worth my time -



I'm glad my parents didn't feel that way. When I broke my legs and couldn't feed myself, I guess they should have put me on the back porch so I didn't starve in the house. So, would you let children born with "challenges" die a natural death instead of caring for them? Just asking.




> I enjoy debate, especially when it comes to things that I feel strongly about, .


I agree, it is through debate that we stretch and test our own beliefs. The challenge is to always consider what others are saying, too. One just may learn something from what others are saying.


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## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

Allison Finch said:


> It is "encouraged" by the people leading the church to pay for sometimes opulent livelihoods. Tele evangelists chap my hide using christian guilt to pay for amazing lifestyles. They need it less than the govt, IMO. The church doesn't pave the roads, build the bridges, train and pay the military...I could go on. God does not say our salvation is through any building (church) or any leader demanding money. Just my opinion, here.
> 
> 
> While you more or less emphasized my point, I'll take the criticizm. I was refering to welfare type programs. I loathe televangelists and commercial christian music. If they truely believe in God they are stealing from him by *selling* his message. If they don't( I suspect most don't), they are being blasphemous........... Afterall, Jesus kicked over the merchants tables who were selling stuff in the temple.
> ...


I can relate. Have a nice day!


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## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

Sorry, the last post is messed up looking. 

I did miss the "only your opinion there" statement. I believe that life begins at conception. In fact, a court in the EU just quilified that belief. European court recognizes human life from the moment of conception | ksl.com 
The us supreme court has never addressed the issue. Therefore I believe that abortion at all stages and instances is murder. Hence, the problem with planned parenthood. It may be an opinion but it's not a worthless or baseless opinion. It had merit. And it also goes against my convictions.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I enjoyed the first part of the thread.

Some quick comments:

When you are a a parent, and your kids leave the house, you realize how little control you have over them. I can raise my kids, and try to live my values in front of them, but they WILL make their own choices in life. And I refuse to take responsibility for their decisions.

I didn't force my son to flunk college classes by playing video games until 2 AM. The example I set for him was getting my MBA while working full time, and working full time meant averaging 12 hours days in the military. My wife put in 18+ hour days in nursing school. Years later, she just finished her BSN while working full time - so BOTH of us set a different example.

But no one controls how another person lives. You can try, but all you can do is set an example. After that, they follow their own path.

Yes, you can train a horse - somewhat. My flighty Arabian mare will never be the sort to stroll down the trail with a cigarette hanging out her mouth. Still, there is a critical difference: You get to choose your horse. I adopted 2 of our 3 kids, but you still don't get to pick personality. And if breeding horses is a crap shoot, human mixes are...well, let's just leave it at "You can choose your horse".

Tithing and religion: Yes, there are tele-evangelists and mega-church pastors raking in the dough. The pastor at the church I'm a member of is 60 and gets paid $2,000/month. The church budgets over $1000/month to support charities in nearby Mexico.

In my twenties, a cop told me that about 1/3 of cops were buttheads. "But", he said, "about 1/3 of the construction workers I worked with were buttheads, and about 1/3 of the teachers I know are buttheads, and about 2/3 of the lawyers. They are everywhere!"

30 years later, I think he underestimated the percentage of buttheads, but the principle is true: They are everywhere. My flighty mare was sold to me as a beginner's horse. The trainer who has worked with us on other horses says she is a good horse for an expert rider. Next week, she'll start training to see if we can get her down to 'intermediate rider' level. OTOH, I sold a horse with a contract that allowed them to return the horse no questions asked for 60 days. I sometimes wish they had done so, but they adore her and ride her daily.

I can find liars and cheats everywhere, but I can also find good people most places too. The OP lessons have a lot of truth in them. Some understand that in their teens. Some don't understand them even when they are 60.

From my perspective at 53, anyone counting on government, kids, horses or anyone else to make them happy, healthy and wealthy will probably end up miserable, sick and broke. Life is what you make of it, and ONLY you can build your life. The pity is that so many wait for someone else to bring them success.

Oh - and YOU have to decide what defines success.

< / Rant >


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

bsms said:


> From my perspective at 53, anyone counting on government, kids, horses or anyone else to make them happy, healthy and wealthy will probably end up miserable, sick and broke. Life is what you make of it, and ONLY you can build your life. The pity is that so many wait for someone else to bring them success.
> 
> Oh - and YOU have to decide what defines success.


Some great points there bsms. I agree with the quoted part 100% but from a 30 something's perspective. 

I do think there is a large part of our society that is looking for a hand out and I've met and known too many people with the "world owes me" mentality. It's all a bit sad. 

As a parent of an elementary student, some of the behavior and attitudes of her fellow students (and parents) makes me sick sometimes. All I can do is try to raise my daughter with good morals and a strong work ethic and then hope for the best when it's in her hands. 

The whole social security issue, for me it's kind of pointless to concern myself over. I highly doubt I will ever see a dime back of what myself and my husband have paid in. **** right it's not fair, but complaining about it will get me nowhere, so I have planned for my own retirement and save & invest accordingly.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

This is great  

We actually have this stuck up in one of our classes.


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## TaMMa89 (Apr 12, 2008)

I'd just want to throw in another point of view: is there anything good in the "Ipod livingstyle"? Is that really as bad as described? I think that everyone can answer 'yes' if it comes to the point in which a person, after parents, thinks that the society owes him everything isn't ready to strive for his life or cannot even meet his responsibility. 

Still, the society and demands have changed. Youngsters nowadays meet different problems than youngsters met 50 years ago. Even ancient folks complained how badly behaved their youngsters were. Sure being capable of take care of yourself is one of the things that I'd imagine important through times. Life in society has always been kind of fight of your being in different forms and being capable of take care of yourself without parents is one of the skills that help you to survive.

Does working your butt off makes you more succesful than someone who has gotten more as ready? I think that the big picture makes the final thing. It isn't always so black and white, there are people who get more as ready but are still humble and ready to work, people who get more as ready and turn into lazybutts who cannot take care of theirselves, people who have to work their way through their life so they'd become succesful, people who should do that but who won't and turn (if using very exacerbated expression) also unsuccesful. Sure I'm not trying to downplay anyone who has worked his way through difficulties, I really tip my hat for anyone who has done that. But people learn lessons of life different ways. Hopefully they just learn them.

I also see it interesting to see how some people compare time that their children spend in front of tv or devices that they have gotten as an indicator of a 'moocher'. Sure for example time that has been spent in front of tv can indicate it at some point (and my possible future kids will once sure as heck have limitations for things like that) but I think that there's more than that in the thing.

Btw, about the European court decisions and abort, it hasn't affected at least on it how abort is viewed in Europe or at least in my country. It's still just as allowed here as earlier. I also see comparing that court decision (which was related to the medical researches) with the abort and how it should be viewed a bit irrelevant. Two different things.

As to the social security, I think it's a lot up to values. Now we have to remember that I come from a different cultural area (Nordic welfare model country) where things are a bit different and the social security has already traditionally been a bigger part of the picture than for example in the US. I still see that since the human life is valuable itself, we have to take care of those who can't do it theirselves. I experience the government almost the best way since I personally believe that human is basically very self-centered creature and if we don't share that joint and several liability together and obligatedly, it soon reaches a point in which people alienate from each others and cannot see how someone elses are. If that alienating didn't happen and people really cared, things like child labor wouldn't happen. Having social security also means that even you pay someone else, someone else pays you if something might happens and you aren't for some reason ready to do that. How many would for example be ready refuse to receive public health care help if you weren't able to have more and if the other choice would for example be to die for cancer? I also think that joint and several liability makes whole the society more safer. When you set up a public school and manage to make one youngster become more interested in studying instead of joining a gang, you've one less possible burglar breaking into your house one day.

Yup, those things don't become learn into school. But maybe school would become more encouraging in things like that.

Just some food for thoughts.


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