# Need help with weight gain and cribbing



## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

Is she actually cribbing (Windsucking) or just eating wood? Sounds like she could use some turnout. Is she ever let out on pasture/lot to just run around or just kept in the stall?


----------



## DGW1949 (Oct 24, 2007)

I've got a rescue mare that does the same thing.
If left to her own devices, she'd rather suck air than eat hay.
The only thing that I've found to stop it is a "crib-collar". I suspect that's what you meant by "miricle colar". About all I can say there is that:
There's differences in different brands of them things.
Any of them has gotta be adjusted right or they won't work.
It could be that your's is too loose.

Hope this helps.
DGW


----------



## DGW1949 (Oct 24, 2007)

And about that feed......

I too, was using 14% swet-feed. The brand I was using happened to have quite a bit of oats mixed in.

I've since switched her over to a 14% pelleted feed which has a 6% fat content and slightly more vitamin-mineral percentage than the sweet-feed had.
I feed mine about 1/2 of what the bag recomemnded but....mine gets pasture grass plus a half-bale of Coastal Hay a day.
I also cut the oats plumb-out. If you ask me, too much of the oats just goes right through them any way.

She's been on the new feed for a bit less than a month.
The difference has been dramatic.

Hope this helps.
DGW


----------



## scorpiosblueeyes (Dec 15, 2007)

Hi! Thank you for replying. She is cribbing, windsucking, and chewing or eating the wood. Although I do not have a pasture, I do let her out in the backyard ( which is 1/3 acre) and all she does is stand in her stall to crib or she stands on the outside and cribs. She will even run out of her stall when I open her gait and then run right back inside her stall to buck and act silly. She is very funny! I know if I was let out I would not stay in my stall, if I was a horse. I have a friend with a barn down the road that I take her to so that I can lunge and ride her in an arena. I make sure she gets exercise because I ride her as an Equine Therapy to help my muscles in my back. It's my physical therapy for my disability. The cribbing collar is as tight as it can be. It's the Miracle Collar. I tried that collar with that metal thing on it, but it pinched her neck and got stuck and she almost collapsed. So I am afraid to use it again. I can't believe the spicy sauce I gave her was like a treat. She must be cajan. Does the paint for cribbing work because I was told it didn't work too well. Do I need to put a hot wire around the top edges of her stall? I would hope that would work. Anyways thank you for all the help. Merry Christmas


----------



## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

I think the elect fencing might help I found this on http://www.cvm.uiuc.edu/petcolumns/showarticle.cfm?id=134
-----------
"A cribber is usually an intelligent horse that needs more to do with its life. Cribbing is
something to do," says Dr. Magid. Sometimes a horse will learn to crib by watching another
horse do it. It is possible they like the noise. Perhaps they do it for attention. Stalled horses
typically develop the habit, but a horse may crib on a pasture fence if the pasture is not
good. 

What should a horse owner do about a cribbing horse? "First, have the horse thoroughly
examined by your veterinarian to see if there is a medical cause," advises Dr. Magid. "Then
alter the horse's environment to make cribbing inconvenient and to provide alternative
entertainment." Horses have a difficult time cribbing on objects below knee level, so things
like feed bunks can be lowered. Metal strips on stall doors and electrical fencing can help
prevent damage to wood. Some horses enjoy rattling a plastic container with gravel hung in
their stall. Some horses enjoy big beach balls in their pasture. Sometimes a buddy, such as
a kitten or goat, will keep a horse content. Adding more hay to the diet keeps a horse busy
eating. "One good solution is to put the horse to work," says Dr. Magid. "Hardworking
horses don't have much interest in cribbing."


----------



## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

Sorry had to google it :wink: there is some stuff call "stop cribbing" it sounds like it is a bitter tasting stuff not a hot spicy. Maybe thats what will turn him off. I've never had a horse do it. A couple of mine like to eat the bark off the trees so I may try it to stop that.


----------



## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

If your vet didn't scope your horse then you haven't ruled out ulcers. And cribbing and unthriftiness are both linked to ulcers.
The fact that she is stalled and doesn't have alot of pasture to graze in also increases the likelihood that your mare has ulcers.

How much forage (grass and/or hay) does she get daily? How much and what kind of concentrate feed?

I would highly recommend getting a second opinion on the ulcer issue or trying her on one of the antacids available on the market to see if the cribbing decreases. If it does, then you should treat for ulcers.


----------



## buckaroo2010 (Nov 7, 2007)

I'm not quite sure about the cribbing deal but about the weight gaining..My friend gives horse horse what is called Beet Pulp to me it smells like Oatmeal :lol: but the horses love it you have to soak it and let it sit for about 5 mins to let it all soak in and you just mix it in with there grain down where I live its about $12 dollars a bag it keeps going up due to gas prices but if you could find some of it try it out  it could possibly help her out alot


----------



## Delregans Way (Sep 11, 2007)

> And cribbing and unthriftiness are both linked to ulcers.


Really... One of my TB, 'windsucks' just after he eats... so is this a sign of ulceration? Or just boredom..??

As for the feed... Have you heard of "Speedi Beat". Its a UK product, and top dressage riders import it (in Australia). You only feed a bit, add water and it swells 6 times the amount... Over in AUS its about $38 for a 20kg bag, but it last forever. Goodluck..


----------



## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

Yes, doing this after eating or moving away from feed to crib or windsuck are both indications that ulcers are likely present.


----------



## scorpiosblueeyes (Dec 15, 2007)

Thank you for the advice. My vet has scoped my horse along with every other test there is. I was a Vet Tech before I found out I was sick. My vet says my horse is healthy and has no problems including ulcers. I let her out all the time and sometimes I take her to another barn across the street because they let me put her in the pasture. I ride and lunge her almost everyday. Sometimes my illness gets worse and that is the only time I can't play with her. She has toys and her radio, but I guess she is hard headed about cribbing. When I let her out here she still would rather crib than play. I have 2 dogs in the yard with her that guard her and they also all play sometimes. I assume she picked this cribbing habit up from her previous owners beating and starving her. She gets almost a whole bale of hay everyday! I was told to give her all the hay she wants, so I do. My boyfriend is going to try a tarp over the rails first, I think I read that in here somewhere. I guess we'll see if it works first. I appreciate all of yalls help and if you can think of anything else, please let me know. Thanks To All, Scorpiosblueeyes


----------



## luvs2ride79 (Dec 17, 2007)

For what the horse needs, she is not spoiled, she is confined. She needs to be turned out 22 hours a day in a good sized paddock or pasture with other horses. This living arangement will "fix" 90% of the cribbers out there (given some time). Riding daily obviously doesn't cut it with your girl, she needs to be at a facility where she can be turned out.

As for weight gain, take her OFF the sweet feed. Any kind of sweet feed and most pelleted feeds contain ingrediants that can cause negative metabolic changes in horses, and will even cause some to LOSE weight. I went through this with my Anglo Arabian gelding (TBxArab). We were stuffing him full of every kind of feed and supplement imaginable to get him to gain weight. What finally worked was a SIMPLE diet!, as follows:

- Free choice GOOD quality grass hay.
- 5-6 lbs of Alfalfa pellets.
- 1.5-2 lbs of Stabailized Rice Bran.
- Source Focus WT.
- Purina's Free Balance

You can change the pellets to alfalfa cubes, chopped hay, or flakes of alfalfa. The Source supplement is a probiotic that helps the horse digest her feed properly. The Free Balance is a supplement for horses getting no fortified grain. You can also use Select II or Smart Pak's Smart Vite. All three are good.

Once she's up to a good weight, you can discontinue the Source, reduce the rice bran to 0.5 lbs, and reduce the Alfalfa pellets to 3 lbs a day. If she still gains weight, you can cute out the rice bran. My gelding no longer gets rice bran and he's doing very well now! He gets less food than I ever thought possible! lol

Good luck.


----------



## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

Honestly, if she were my horse, I would probably turn her out in an electrical fenced in area (as large as possible) with a couple of logs for chewing on, and only bring her in when the weather turns bad. Even in some weather, you could use a blanket rather than her stall. I would also give her free choice hay at all times (if that is possible). You also might consider getting a companion for her if possible. If another horse is too much, maybe a miniature horse or a goat, or a pony?? It sounds like room might be an issue though? 

As for weight gain...different things work well for different horses. really hight quality hay can sometimes do it, Nutrena safe choice worked well recently for my stallion who was struggling with weight, alfalfa hay or pellets have worked well for horses I know, etc. That might require a little trial and error (just of course carefully and slowly to prevent upsetting diet.


----------



## DashsCrackerjack (Dec 3, 2007)

My horse CJ, is a hard keeper and he is a nervous eater from being on the race track. I have tried diff. weight supplements and the only thing that really worked for him was Corn Oil. Like from the grocery store. Its quick, easy and cheap! I wet his pellets in it every night and it has really helped him hold weight. And it makes the coat nice and shiney too!


----------



## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

CJ is another one of those horses who've been in a high risk situation for ulcers--80+% of horses who race have ulcers.


----------



## Delregans Way (Sep 11, 2007)

To Ryle,
I am told that my tb does it because of boredom. You often see him in the paddock 'wind sucking' on a tree, when he is waiting to be feed. Although he isnt presistant, he has his good and bad days. He is ottb, and he was raced in the city, where they were stabled almost 24/7. He chews on the wood in the stable, or day yard after being ridden, or again eating... Im very concerned. Thanks in advance for some reasoning and advice.

Thanks,

Delregans Way Performance Horses


----------



## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

The best thing to do would be to ask your vet to scope him to see if he has ulcers. However, remember that scoping a horse isn't 100% accurate as some ulcers occur in areas where the scope won't reach. The other options would be to just start treatment for ulcers and see if he improves (called diagnosis based upon response to treatment) or to try giving antacids top-dressed on his feed or just before a ride and see if he stops doing it so much. If he responds to treatment or antacids, then go for a full 28 day course of treatment with omeprazole, ranitidine or cimetidine. 

Management changes for horses with ulcers or suspected of having ulcers include as much turnout as possible, free choice forage, cutting out grains from the diet and going with forage based feeds or ration balancers and then providing extra energy through fat sources like veg oil.


----------



## DGW1949 (Oct 24, 2007)

Hello Cindy D......

Here's a couple of questions;
What antacid does one use to put on feed?
Does it have any side-efeects that should be watched for?
If it does seem to help, how long should it be given?

I might try that on my mare.

Thanks again.
DGW


----------



## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

There are several antacid products on the market for horses. U-7 comes in both a powder and liquid form. But you can just look for equine supplements marketed for helping with ulcers. 

There aren't any real side effects with them. It's kinda like us taking Tums. However, there is some concern that they may cause an acid rebound and actually make the stomach more acidic a few hours after they are used. They also only buffer the stomach acid for about 2 hours so they won't completely clear ulcer symptoms nor allow the ulcers to heal but they are helpful for times when ulcers are likely to cause more pain---when eating concentrates or when working. 

If they improve your horse's problem, then you should talk to your vet about actually treating for ulcers.


----------



## Delregans Way (Sep 11, 2007)

Thank you very much. I will consult my vet about that, thank you very much for your help.


----------



## kim_angel (Oct 16, 2007)

I am sad to hear that the Miracle Collar doesnt work for your horse. Its the only thing that works for mine. Just as a reminder, remember its the front buckle (the one that goes above their eyes) that applies the pressure to stop the cribbing, so you want that one on the tighter side.

As for feeding, definitely try some rice bran & soaked alfalpha cubes - soak them for about 30 minutes so they are nice and mushy... add then to the horses normal grain/feed twice a day.

Cheers,
Kim


----------



## brittx6x6 (Mar 4, 2007)

When my trianer got her TB off the track she was disgustingly thin! We put her on
-1 cup of corn oil every day
- beet pulp at night
- 2 scoops of soy
- pelleted complete feed
- 1 scoop of alfalfa(spelling?) squares
- 20 hours of turnout time (4 hours for riding/brushing/eating)
It worked quite well too. The corn oil added more fat and made her shiny. The beet pulp added weight all over and the soy built up her back/topline. The alfafa also added weight and energy. The 20 hours of turnout gave her endless amounts of roughage and play time.

For cribbing I found this website, I hope it helps..
http://www.cvm.uiuc.edu/petcolumns/showarticle.cfm?id=134

Let us know if you find anything that works


----------



## Supermane (Sep 23, 2007)

http://www.bitterlicks.com/
^^My friend use to have a cribber and stumbled upon this, but she sold the horse before she ordered it, I don't know anyone who has actually used this, but the website looks quite impressive and I think it might be worth a try.


----------



## horsecents101 (Dec 31, 2007)

*cribbing and weight gain*

Hi There, just wanted to add this to the already posted replies you have received. It is from "Veterinary Elements". Just something else to consider if you havent already  
" The stockman is seldom worried with tooth troubles in sheep,cattle and pigs, and unless well informed is apt to think horses are just as free, such, however, is _not_ the case. The _slightest_ irregularity of the teeth will interfere more or less with chewing and masticating the food, quite readily understood if a person is familiar with the arrangement of the teeth. *No horse is exempt*, from colthood to old age the teeth are liable to need attention.
There are general symptoms, such as unthriftiness, often in spite of good and liberal feeding and little work, there is dribbling of saliva from the mouth,ends of hay may be dropped from the mouth, water is let fall out when drinking, the horse may *crib or windsuck,* the feces may contain undigested feed, there may be swelling of the jaw, loss of flesh; the horse may pull on the bit or refuse to take hold at all........the cause is the teeth"
I thought I would share this with you. I have seen horses self mutilate( chew wire, t-posts, etc) themselves trying to get relief from discomforts caused by teeth. I am not saying this is what could be the problem, but it might help.


----------



## scorpiosblueeyes (Dec 15, 2007)

*Update on my horse*

I thought I would let yall know that I went and bought the beet pulp. I also am slowly switching her from the sweet feed to pellets and I am also giving her corn oil as suggested. I am giving her a bale of hay everyday, but I still need to buy the alfafa cubes. I had to buy 20 bales of hay to stock up for when the feed store runs out, so I had to wait for the cubes. I am on disability so I have to make sure I have money for all the feed i buy for the month. I have 10 dogs that eat 60 lbs every 3 days, and 7 cats to feed as well. My Mastiff eats more than my horse! lol I also figured out that my horse likes to share her food with the Blue Heeler, but she refuses to share with the Mastiff! I think it's funny to watch the horse chase off one dog but lets the other eat with her. Anyways, I am already seeing a difference in her weight and she loves the beet pulp! Thank you all and I will keep you updated on her progress!!!


----------



## Pattyjosmommy13 (Sep 17, 2013)

My horse is cribbing also. I read that it's because he is bored or he needs to interact with other horses. But we have two other horses so I don't think that's the case. But I read in a book at tractor supply that he fills up from the air so he doesn't eat much and it causes weight loss. Also, the feed could cause the "cribbing" and / or stress. We tried to put him in our yard so he will eat more and he does just fine but when he is with the other horses he will just stand there and crib on anything he can. So I think it's stress. If you can try letting him around another horse and see if that helps. Good luck !  and they also make " cribbing spray" it's at tractor supply.


----------



## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

Ten to one, your horse is lonely and extremely bored in her stall. She's the only horse on the property right?

I have a coming two year old TB filly who came from a terrible situation as well; where she was severely neglected. It has been about 9 1/2 months since she was in that situation so her body has mostly healed, but she has been TERRIBLE about cribbing/windsucking. She would do in on anything and everything. Wire fencing, t-post caps, wood, metal, plastic, trees, feed buckets...there was no way to make it where there was nothing for her to crib on, and she was making her mouth RAW from doing it so much. I, of course, had her checked for ulcers and she had none (surprisingly...) so when that was ruled out I decided it was her environment that was causing her to crib. At that time she had to stay in a 14 x 20 panel stall with a small run, much like your mare- due to a severe injury and illness- and she literally cribbed all day. Once she was healed up nicely though, I moved her to a 2 acre pasture with a bit of grass in it by herself. Her cribbing decreased, but it was still significant. So then I decided to modify her diet. She had been on a large amount (4.5 lbs) of grain (not sweet feed, she ate Nutrena Mare and Foal) so I slowly decreased that to 2.5 lbs of grain and added in beet pulp. The cribbing decreased again, but she still cribbed.

Just this past two months, she has finally been integrated into a herd situation slowly...one horse at a time, and she now stays in a herd of 5 and is free fed hay off of a round bale. She eats half a pound of rice bran (I traded that out for beet pulp because she wouldn't eat it), 6 lbs of alfalfa pellets, as much costal hay as she wants, and a powdered probiotic...and I've seen a HUGE change. Now that she is able to be with other horses her cribbing has all but disappeared. I think I've only seen her do it once (while separated) in the whole time since integrating her into the herd, and she's put on weight as well. She just needed companions. She felt very anxious without them and resorted to the endorphins released by cribbing to make her feel better, but as soon as she was with them she didn't feel like she needed to worry any more, and she's doing great.

Horses aren't meant to be without other horses, and they aren't meant to only have a stall and small pen to walk around in. They are social animals, and will litereally drive themselves crazy without herd mates.


----------

