# My awfully lame - newly barefoot mare has swollen legs.



## manca (Feb 23, 2011)

She was unshoed in Tuesday. She barely walked, looked like she has laminitis in all four legs... 
In Thursday it seemed it's slightly better, of course awful when she has to walk over the gravel road (to get in stall + I picked all stones, so it's just large sand), but she was much better on soft grass. Yesterday (Saturday) she was trotting and cantering on soft grass (by herself), she wasn't lame. She didn't trot that much, about 100 feet three times. Still very lame when crossing the road.

Today all 4 lower legs are swollen. Not much, but noticeable. She is awfuly lame on the ground where no grass grows (she was only slightly lame there yesterday), awfully lame crossing the road (5 steps, and she stops for each step), but she's normal on soft grass.

Do you think her legs are swollen because of being barefoot? I have no other idea why. 
She was grazing a bit longer yesterday (1 hour more), but it's fall and grass isn't that dangerous right now + she never had laminitis problems. (also no pulse or hot hooves). She ate few apples more than usual, but I would expect diarrhea or colic if this was the problem, not swelling. Got half a cup beet pulp more than usual, but again, I don't know why she would swell because of it.
Maybe she ate something that's not good for her? But she always grazes there without problems...

I have few crappy pics of her hooves, but the sunlight was bad. I'll try again in the evening. 
(And I don't have the before pics, when I came from school farrier was already there...)


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## manca (Feb 23, 2011)

Pics with visible hooves: :-|


















































































Now remember her hooves have problems. As farrier said: "One of her front hoof was in size of half an orange." (And the other was normal size). They are still not completly same, but it's much much better.


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## hyperfocus2011 (Oct 11, 2010)

Keep the shoes off! She will adjust and her feet will get used to being barefoot. When the blacksmith returns make sure he only trims the outter hoof wall and NOT the soul or frog! You will see after a few months neither foot will look different. They will turn natural and she will be able to run on gravel even with you on her. the clefs in her heels will open up too which is a good thing!


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Could it be that she is moving around less and it thus stocked up? Have you had unseasonably hot weather?


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

hyperfocus2011 said:


> Keep the shoes off! She will adjust and her feet will get used to being barefoot. When the blacksmith returns make sure he only trims the outter hoof wall and NOT the soul or frog! You will see after a few months neither foot will look different. They will turn natural and she will be able to run on gravel even with you on her. the clefs in her heels will open up too which is a good thing!



Let's be realistic here. I am "pro barefoot" too. But I don't run my horses barefoot on gravel. And even if I could, I don't think it's wise. :shock: 

I agree that only the hoof wall should be trimmed, not the sole at all, and not the frog unless there are ragged pieces that need cleaning up. 

Were the soles trimmed up at all when the shoes were taken off? Taking ANY sole off a barefoot horse is playing with fire in regards to them being comfortable. I trim my own horses and have learned this the hard way. The only sole I take off is sole that is flaking and peeling off on it's own. If for some reason I feel I have to trim a little sole, then I know I will have to ride in hoof boots for quite a while until the feet grow out again.

If it were me, I think I would be inclined to shoe the horse another cycle to let the feet grow out, then pull the shoes and not trim the feet at all at first. So she has some protection while adjusting to barefoot. Then in another month or so after pulling the shoes, have her feet trimmed. No sole at all taken out when they are trimmed. 

If she is noticeably sore just walking around without a rider, that is not a good thing. If she is gimpy like she is laminitic or standing in an unusual stance, I would put the shoes back on and try again when the feet are longer and/or the ground is softer. But it isn't fair to keep the horse suffering in the name of barefoot if she isn't even comfortable standing still.

Assuming she is eventually running around fine barefoot without a rider, then you can get a set of hoof boots (usually the fronts are all that is needed) if she is tender footed being ridden. Then if all goes well, she should be able to be ridden in most places without boots at all over time.
(I can ride my horses barefoot most places now, but still use the boots when the terrain is mostly rocky or if I have been riding long and hard and their feet are wearing short).

But if the horse isn't even comfortable walking around it's environment, then it's unfair to leave the horse hurting. That's my opinion anyway. 

If your farrier took out some sole, then I would try again after another shoeing cycle. I would let the feet grow, pull the shoes, not trim them at all except perhaps to roll the hoof wall, and then wait another month or so for an actual trim. 

If the farrier did nothing but pull the shoes, then I would wait until the ground is soft before trying again. Like try letting her go barefoot over a muddy winter so she can adjust before she has to deal with walking on hard ground. But she should at least be able to walk around normally without a rider. If she isn't, then I would be concerned about leaving her barefoot right now. That isn't to say you can't try again later, but the horse should be okay just walking around without shoes.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I re-read your post and maybe things aren't so dire. I guess I went on a bit of a tangent. :lol: 

If she's comfortable on soft ground, that is good. I would stick with it for a while and see if she continues to get better. 

My guys were very tender on gravel roads when I pulled their shoes too. And still, many years later, if they get tender footed, it is on gravel roads. I think it is because the surface is so hard and then there are loose rocks on top. Bad combination for horse feet! 

If she is comfortable on a soft surface and improving, you are probably doing okay. 

I don't know about the stocking up. My guys only stock up if they are ridden hard and then stand in a small area overnight. My guys are also older (in their late teens) so I think age also has a bit to do with it. I don't recall them stocking up just because their shoes were pulled.

PS. Her feet don't look too bad. I have certainly seen worse. The frog in the one is really sunk into the hoof, either from thrush or because the foot is contracted from being shod. That should improve with her being barefoot. But I don't see any glaring hoof problems that would cause her to be lame.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

It looks like the frog was trimmed, too much. Poor baby. She'll grow out of it. Can you take her for a walk in the indoor sand arena? I think she probably is stocked up. WAlking helps in that case.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Last year I had issues getting my guy barefoot. He only had front shoes, so we pulled them. He was so lame, I could not stand to watch it, and after 2 weeks of Venice turpentine and every other thing we could think of, the shoes went back on. He was also in training, and time was $$. In the fall, he came home, and a new farrier in Va recommended that I let the feet grow until the shoes basically fall off. Then just rasp the rough edges (hooves don't grow much here in winter), and trim as needed a couple weeks after and he was fine. A little ouchy on stones, but fully rideable, and never missed a day. If I ever have another with shoes, this is exactly what I will do. IT has worked well for me, and his feet are great-he is fine on stones (not sharp ones they have in some areas, but rounded ones).

In fact, when I just sent him to the trainer for reining training, I told them I would NOT agree to front shoes. THey can put sliders on, but no fronts. I do not want to go thru that again!

It does seem like yours is abit stocked up, but really minimal, and I am wondering if it is just from less activity.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

hyperfocus2011 said:


> Keep the shoes off! She will adjust and her feet will get used to being barefoot. When the blacksmith returns make sure he only trims the outter hoof wall and NOT the soul or frog! You will see after a few months neither foot will look different. They will turn natural and she will be able to run on gravel even with you on her. the clefs in her heels will open up too which is a good thing!


Sorry to say but I think that's too rosy a prognosis to be realistic. True, all that *might* happen, even if the horse is forced to 'adjust' despite being in pain, but it depends on a lot of factors and odd feet becoming a matched pair - especially in a few months - and 'gravel crunching' feet may never eventuate. 

I agree with keeping the shoes off, not trimming sole or frog *unless they need it*, which is generally very little & infrequent. With the right treatment, the horse should improve on hard/rough ground, but it depends on how long her feet have been compromised for, diet, environment, management, etc, as to how much they may improve. 

I agree with others that it sounds likely the swelling is 'stocking up' due to lack of movement. Have you called a vet Manca? Does the swelling go down if you walk her around a bit? She obviously has quite compromised feet, which she can now feel without the shoes. Don't know if there was also a lot of thrush that meant the need for such severe frog paring, but that would also leave her overly sensitive.

Firstly Manca, let me say those are pretty reasonable hoof pics for critique purposes! It looks to me like she has very flat soles around the toe and rings - albeit quite minor looking - on her feet which indicate she could be laminitic - whether it's a current 'attack' or not - and may have little thickness of sole covering the internal structures. Therefore I'd be careful to protect her feet where/when necessary to allow her to move comfortably without risk of stone bruising, etc. I do not believe in forcing a horse to just go bare & 'adjust', because aside from it not being nice for them, I don't think it's helpful for rehab & developing healthy, strong feet, as there is risk of further injury and also the horse will not be using her feet properly. 

You speak about her being OK in the grassy paddock & sand stall, which is great. I would not lock her up at all if poss, but keep her in the paddock & encourage her to exercise as much as possible *so long as she's comfortable* hopefully she can do that bare, but if it takes boots & pads, that's what I'd do. If she does require protection even in the paddock, this is not *generally* a long-term thing.

As her heels are a bit high & frogs recessed, I would be using frog support pads in the boots, to give them more support & stimulation until the heels can become more level with them. It appears that there is little if any more heel height that can be removed now - you don't want to trim into live sole - but with time this may change & also unpared frogs will grow fuller.

As for the farriery, in so much as I can gather from the pics, I would have possibly 'scooped' the quarters a little and would have rolled the walls, especially around the toes, that's about it. Oh and not pared the frogs at all, except in the case of removing flaps & overhangs & opening up the central sulci, *IF* they were thrushy. On that note, whether the farrier pared because of thrush or just... because, I'd be spraying her frogs daily with apple cider vinegar or such, to discourage infection while they grow back.

As for the odd feet, it depends on why they're like that & how long as to whether they may change. That left could be more upright naturally, due to injury, posture, heel pain, etc. If it's due to heel pain that can be resolved, and other injuries may be resolved with bodywork, but she may always have odd feet & either way, I think it's important not to force the issue but to work with the feet that she's got to keep them *well maintained* & they'll change over time themselves, if they're going to.

Oh btw, it depends on a number of things, including the weather as to whether grass is 'dangerous' with regard to lami. It's usually spring & autumn when horses are most at risk, but can be any time. Is your horse overweight?


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## bntnail (Feb 3, 2011)

hyperfocus2011 said:


> Keep the shoes off! She will adjust and her feet will get used to being barefoot. When the blacksmith returns make sure he only trims the outter hoof wall and NOT the soul or frog! You will see after a few months neither foot will look different. They will turn natural and she will be able to run on gravel even with you on her. the clefs in her heels will open up too which is a good thing!


:shock::?:shock:


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## bntnail (Feb 3, 2011)

Vennice turpintine


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

And a good set of shoes!!


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## manca (Feb 23, 2011)

Thanks so much  
Swelling went down as soon as I started to walk her. She is fine now, she is walking very careful over the road, but not lame. She is completly fine on soft ground. Being hyper because she didn't move enough, she canters, bucks... 
Do you think it's smart to lunge her? I think she's fine... 
Farrier said he comes in 2, 3 weeks, because her hooves will probably crack a bit.
P.s.: she doesn't have thrush, I don't know why he took it off... But he didn't touch sole.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stan (Aug 25, 2011)

Horses were not born with iron shoes on. Wild horses don't wear shoes they run bare footed. So what is it humans are doing wrong. I generally leave my horse bare footed for as long as I can and only use shoes when I am riding on stone, or paved roads. Natural is the way in my humble opinion. With exceptions as mentioned.

Pain for the horse I do not advicate, but if it is short lived and improves the horses hooves then keep an eye on it and continue. The horse will benifit in the long run. Running bare foot after a while the hoof will increase in size and spread a little. That makes the hoof able to spread the load over a wider surface resulting in less preasure points. Got to be better in the long run. My horse Savannah had huge feet like big dinner plates I often commented she could walk on water. No problems with her hooves.

Stella has the shoes off as often as I can in an attempt to improve the size of her hooves. Not a great help for you but encouragement if bare foot is the aim. Also if you live in a dry area make a foot bath and stand the horse in water daily, the hooves benifit from moisture.


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## Horseman56 (Jul 25, 2011)

Stan said:


> Horses were not born with iron shoes on. Wild horses don't wear shoes they run bare footed. So what is it humans are doing wrong. (?)


Lot's of things. In example....

1. Presuming that because a horse is not born with orthotics that none will be needed for the domesticated horse expected to meet the use based expectations of their owner.

2. Presuming that there is significant, comparative relationship between the needs of the feral/wild horse and that of the discipline bred, domesticated horse expected to meet the performance needs of the owner.

3. Presuming that wild horses, grazing at liberty over thousands of acres of semi-arid land, have the same distal limb management needs as the domesticated animal managed in a completely different environment and expected to meet use based expectations of a human owner.

4. Failing to recognize and acknowledge that the routine mechanical/pathological failures that are often managed or corrected in the longer lived domestic horse are a routine death sentence for the wild horse.

5. Engaging in internet counsel to owners of lame horses even though you possess no formal training or significant experience in the trades of either the professional farrier or veterinarian. Hypothetical case in point... if this particular owners horse were to die because she followed your counsel as to how best to manage her horses problems, are you willing to take personal and professional responsibility for that outcome? Should her horse suddenly suffer mechanical founder due trauma the vascular bed, a potential consequence of inadequate solar depth and possible distal descent, are you prepared to counsel said owner through the management and treatment of such pathology?




> I generally leave my horse bare footed for as long as I can and only use shoes when I am riding on stone, or paved roads. Natural is the way in my humble opinion. With exceptions as mentioned.


If "natural is the way" then why are their exceptions? How does your "management" and experience of a single horse living and used in New Zealand qualify you to provide lameness counsel to an owner whose horse lives near the Adriatic sea? Is it possible that environment and intended use may be considerably different than your own?



> Pain for the horse I do not advicate, but if it is short lived and improves the horses hooves then keep an eye on it and continue. The horse will benifit in the long run.


Really? What exactly is the owner supposed to "keep an eye on". When did pain become a curative property of healthy transition? How exactly does pain become beneficial in the long run and is there any point at which you might suggest that perhaps the pain is symptomatic of a problem which may or may not require professional attention?



> Running bare foot after a while the hoof will increase in size and spread a little. That makes the hoof able to spread the load over a wider surface resulting in less preasure points.


Really? So if I leave a club-footed horse barefoot, that foot will increase in size and spread, reducing pressure points? How about a horse suffering hi-lo syndrome? Bilateral limb length disparity? What if that "spreading" is a consequence of capsule distortion at the quarters and subsequent quarter cracks? Barefoot cures all ills?



> Got to be better in the long run.


How is leaving a flat-footed, thin soled horse suffering in discomfort over challenging terrain better in the long run? Make 'em hurt until they don't so you won't have to incur the expense and personal responsibility that comes with the ownership of a domestic horse? Why should a farrier or vet help you subsidize the neglectful, unnecessary discomfort of a domestic horse? 



> My horse Savannah had huge feet like big dinner plates I often commented she could walk on water. No problems with her hooves.


And that singular, completely different, anecdotal example somehow qualifies you to advise this particular horse owner how???



> Stella has the shoes off as often as I can in an attempt to improve the size of her hooves. Not a great help for you but encouragement if bare foot is the aim.


Let's cut to the chase. Why is barefoot the "aim"? Why isn't the "aim" the relief/correction of a horse in discomfort? Why isn't the "aim" the professional administration of whatever methodology best meets the needs of the horse and the intended environmental/performance use of that animal by the owner?



> Also if you live in a dry area make a foot bath and stand the horse in water daily, the hooves benifit from moisture.


Let's just simplify this mess. You have absolutely no formal experience or training whatsoever in the proper management of the equine distal limb, domestic or wild, regardless of environment or use, but somehow feel utterly and completely comfortable dispensing irresponsible and nonsensical commentary and opinion to an owner with a horse in some level of undiagnosed discomfort. And, of course, should this particular horse happen to suffer through and survive the trauma of their "barefoot transition experience", you'll be the first to claim "see, I told you so!", right?

I've got to ask. Do you also and routinely play doctor on website forums devoted to human patients seeking help? 

To the OP... your horse has little foot mass/volume, is flat and probably thin soled as evidenced by the shallow depth of the collateral commmissures near the apex of the frog and bearing as much or more load on the anterior solar tissues as the distal capsule wall. Radiographs would likely indicate no more and probably less than 10mm of sole thickness under the solar margin of the distal phalanx. This lack of depth is causal in excess pressure on the vascular bed and the tenderness your horse experiences when traversing difficult or challenging terrain. That pressure creates inflammation of the soft solar tissues and is likely causal in the edema visible in the distal limb (distal to and including the proximal phalangeal joint). 

Over time the exposed solar tissues may harden enough to afford the foot some protection/relief, as will any wall growth that reduces pressure on those tissues. This is the "transition" period you may hear others describe. It's a painful, unnecessary transition. Risks include trauma related sub-solar bruising, possible abscess (secondary infection associated with bruising/trauma) and, worst case scenario's of mechanically induced laminitis. 

The application of orthotics can reduce that risk by relieving solar pressure and providing needed protection until such time as the animal grows enough wall length to afford solar relief of sensitive tissues. Once that is accomplished (presuming ever), the orthotics can be removed, the foot more conservatively trimmed to balance and the horse allowed to demonstrate what barefoot capability can be achieved. That "transition" would be comparatively low risk, low cost and should require no more than 6-8 weeks to achieve.

Radiographs would remove speculation about solar depth and coffin bone position within the hoof capsule, providing a better diagnostic and evaluation of your horses ability to meet your performance expectations. 

Barefoot should not be a "try it and see" effort. It is a management protocol decision that should be based on the needs of the horse and your use based expectations of the animal. 

The comment that "She is fine now, she is walking very careful over the road, but not lame" is an oxymoron. The horse is either sound or it is not. Horses absent lameness do not "walk very careful over the road". Your farrier and vet are best qualified to assist you in determining the optimal protocol to meet your horses needs.

Cheers,
Mark


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Stan said:


> Stella has the shoes off as often as I can in an attempt to improve the size of her hooves.


Sorry - the size of the hoof is the size of the hoof. Barefoot they may pancake but they are not increasing in size.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

A lot of horses "walk very carefully" because more than one hoof is sore and they can only limp on one foot at a time.


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## Stan (Aug 25, 2011)

Cheers Mark, and you are obviously upset by my post and you feel justified. You have targeted out of context I did say in a humble opinion and make no claim to be an expert. Just offered as others have another point of view or idea. 

Sorry you feel that yours is the only point of view, and have gone to great lengths to hit home your feelings The positive was glossed over by you in an obvious attempt to vent. To insinuate I don't care for the horse is a nonsence in its self. Most who post any comment on the threads are not setting themselves up as experts but only offering a differing point of view for consideration. 

Your comment Living in a country like New Zealand, it does give a different view and should in fairness be read as coming from differing cultural perspective than perhaps your own. 

Mark, I did not and never have set myself up as an expert on any subject. As most others that post a response offer a different idea based on their understanding of the origional post and due to experences had have tried differing methods of dealing with horse problems.

Now if you want you can make somthing of the following statement as it is providing entertaining and informitive reading.

I only use a vet that ownes and rides horses. Why, because they can communicate to the owners on the same level.

Farriers. I have had some bad experences with farriers and seen hooves stuffed up by such persons then on the other hand the one I use now, and no, not a contradiction if you took the time to read in the context it was ment you will have seen I also put shoes on the horse when the conditions require. Back to the farrier the one I use now is top of the line and also gives me good advice.

You must be feeling better now after venting mark and thanks for the read.

Mis. My farrier disagrees with you and since the horses have been bare foot the quality of the hooves have improved. Standing the horse in water has also improved the hooves as moisture is a component required. And that is not to say standing in water is the fix all. 

I await a further response.


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## manca (Feb 23, 2011)

> It looks to me like she has very flat soles around the toe and rings - albeit quite minor looking - on her feet which indicate she could be laminitic


I noticed that rings too... But I don't think she has/had laminitis. She wasn't lame, didn't have hot hooves, no pulse... I don't see a reason how she could get it. She is a hard keeper, always slightly underweight, now for the past 2 months we finally managed to get her in nice shape. She only gets free choice hay, a bit more than 4 cups (before soaking) beet pulp, an hour or two grazing and vitamin/mineral mix. We only do trail rides, not hard for her at all. Maximum was 3 hours this summer. I take care that she doesn't work hard or long on asphalt or similiar. I wonder if rings could be from changing her feed often?


I want to have her barefoot only for the winter. It's my senior year and I won't be able to ride much (if at all...) so my farrier agreed it was a good idea to take her shoes off. If by any miracle she was ok on gravel too, then we would leave her barefoot for summer too, but I don't think that will happen. 



> The comment that "She is fine now, she is walking very careful over the road, but not lame" is an oxymoron. The horse is either sound or it is not. Horses absent lameness do not "walk very careful over the road".



She is sound on the soft grass, on fine sand, in hard ground paddock with no grass (no rain for so long...), but she is walking slowly and carefully over the gravel road. I expect she won't be able to walk on it. I'm not excersising her on gravel road, she goes over to go to the paddock. No other way to get there. I picked the sharp stones on one part and I lead her over that part, but when she is loose she doesn't go there.



​


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Horseman56 said:


> The application of orthotics can reduce that risk by relieving solar pressure and providing needed protection until such time as the animal grows enough wall length to afford solar relief of sensitive tissues. Once that is accomplished (presuming ever), the orthotics can be removed, the foot more conservatively trimmed to balance and the horse allowed to demonstrate what barefoot capability can be achieved. That "transition" would be comparatively low risk, low cost and should require no more than 6-8 weeks to achieve.


I think I said something similar, in layman's terms, on page 1. :lol:



trailhorserider said:


> If it were me, I think I would be inclined to shoe the horse another cycle to let the feet grow out, then pull the shoes and not trim the feet at all at first. So she has some protection while adjusting to barefoot. Then in another month or so after pulling the shoes, have her feet trimmed. No sole at all taken out when they are trimmed.


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## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

I have both barefoot AND shod horses depending on their needs and the amount of work they are in. I have a very competent farrier that always lightly trims the frog and sole. I always understood that shaping the sole so that they do NOT stand on it and so concavity was maintained was a good thing provided it is done correctly and not to the point of causing it to bleed/bruise/etc. My horses have never taken a lame step after trimming and in cases of getting new horses in are usually sounder after a visit from my farrier. Is it truly a hard and fast rule to not touch the sole at all or is this one of those things that unless you are truly knowledgeable you shouldn't mess with? I can pull shoes, round edges and level heels as needed but I prefer to pay a professional to keep my horse's feet healthy as I don't have the time, physical strength or skill it requires to keep my horse's feet in top shape. Was just curious about the sole rule and decided to subscribe. Thanks!


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

The "don't trim the sole" rule is just from my personal experience. It seems like if I touch the sole on my otherwise sound barefoot horse, I will be using hoof boots for a couple of weeks. 

I put it out there as a warning that if you trim the sole on a barefoot horse you might very well have a sore horse. But if you don't, then great. You are doing better than me. 

In my opinion concavity is something the horse has on it's own though. It's not something you make by carving out the hoof. There is only so much depth to the sole so I personally don't like thinning it. Generally I only remove sole if I think it is retained sole- sole that needs to come out but just hasn't flaked out on it's own yet. That kind of sole you can sometimes grab a piece of with the nippers and pull and it pops out in a big chunk.


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## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

Most farriers around here tend to make pancake feet out of just about anything. I have even seen some rasp them down to the point of ZERO concavity so the horse is just sitting on the sole with no heel or wall support and then people wonder why their pasture puff needs shoes. It kills me...I guess because of what goes on here I'm more apt to take sole rather than leave it and run the risk of them having no concavity. I have a few Quarter Horses and a mustang that grow lots of wall and naturally have very concave feet whereas my TB and to some extent my draft/warmblood crosses tend to grow more sole than wall and we try to balance them so that they aren't standing on the sole or flaring out and running down their heels. Just like everything you have to tailor to each horse you can't just nip a circle off, rasp it flat and slap a shoe on if you want/need it. If it was that easy it would save me a lot of money every month!!


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## draftrider (Mar 31, 2010)

What I'm seeing with my novice eye is her dropped, flat sole, contracted tendons and her frogs which have been brutalized. I would strongly suggest getting some boots for her while she transitions to being barefoot. My horses are 100% barefoot and have NO issues with gravel. Never trim the frog or sole, unless it is shedding.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

NittanyEquestrian said:


> understood that shaping the sole so that they do NOT stand on it and so concavity was maintained was a good thing provided it is done correctly and not to the point of causing it to bleed/bruise/etc.


:shock::-( While healthy hoof walls should definitely share the load, IMO it is SOOO important that the underside of the foot - sole, frog, heel - should also most definitely be part of the support. I believe the horses hoof, as with every other animal's foot is built for use. I cannot believe that God/evolution(whatever you like) would put something on the bottom of an animal's foot that's not meant to contact the ground. Even if you do cut concavity in, so there is no ground support for the sole & frog on hard, flat ground, what happens when the horse is on broken or yielding ground - he still gets the ground pressure on his soles regardless of your efforts, but thinning it provides less 'armour plating' to protect the internal structures. 

I think peripheral loading - as with either metal rims or overlong walls on flat ground - is about the biggest mechanical problems for hooves. Without ground support under the pedal bone, the entire horse is effectively just 'hanging' by the tenuous laminar connections & so the hoof inside the capsule can 'sink'. I think this is why so many horses have thin, flat soles and shod horses tend to have far longer capsules than (healthy) bare feet.



> truly a hard and fast rule to not touch the sole at all or is this one of those things that unless you are truly knowledgeable you shouldn't mess with?


Yes, it is truly a rule... but there are exceptions to every rule IME:wink:. So saying, I can't think of a single exception ATM that would cause me to trim into *live* sole. Perhaps tho that is the difference that you may not get with your farrier.



> I can pull shoes, round edges and level heels as needed but I prefer to pay a professional to keep my horse's feet healthy as I don't have the time, physical strength or skill it requires to keep my horse's feet in top shape.


That's good, that you can do that. Whether or not a horse owner ultimately aspires to do the farriery themselves, I think learning the principles particularly - and some basic practice in case of emergency - is very important. Not least because most of the horse's hoof health is down to us, not the once a month or 2 visits from the farrier.



> In my opinion concavity is something the horse has on it's own though. It's not something you make by carving out the hoof. There is only so much depth to the sole so I personally don't like thinning it.


:thumbsup: 



> Most farriers around here tend to make pancake feet out of just about anything. I have even seen some rasp them down to the point of ZERO concavity so the horse is just sitting on the sole with no heel or wall support and then people wonder why their pasture puff needs shoes. It kills me...I guess because of what goes on here I'm more apt to take sole rather than leave it and run the risk of them having no concavity.


:shock:I have included a (very simplistic) diagram of a healthy foot vs one that's gone 'splat' - whether or not it's happened due to a farrier rasping into the sole. First consider that the healthy hoof doesn't have too much sole, but it is adequate. Next consider that individual horses have different amounts of concavity naturally and depending on their environment. Eg. some horses have relatively flat pedal bones at the bottom compared with others. Horses that are used to working on hard, flat surfaces tend to have flatter soles - filled in more around the frog, which allows ground support on these unnatural surfaces. Now imagine how much protection the horse has(n't) already if they have 'pancake' feet, even before we think about carving 'natural' concavity.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

manca said:


> I noticed that rings too... But I don't think she has/had laminitis. She wasn't lame, didn't have hot hooves, no pulse... I don't see a reason how she could get it. She is a hard keeper, ... I wonder if rings could be from changing her feed often?


Yeah, not saying she has, just something to consider as a possibility. But 'low grade' or 'sub clinical' laminitis doesn't necessarily come with obvious lameness and if the 'attack' was mild or not happening right at the time you check the heat & pulse can be normal. Basically think of 'sub clinical' signs as the early warning system. Laminitis tends to be due to metabolic upsets, for one reason or another & while overweight horses tend to be more at risk, weight doesn't necessarily come into it. Yes, the metabolic upsets can be due to changing feed often. Can mean as good as nothing, but worth noticing. 



> I want to have her barefoot only for the winter. It's my senior year and I won't be able to ride much (if at all...) so my farrier agreed it was a good idea to take her shoes off. If by any miracle she was ok on gravel too, then we would leave her barefoot for summer too, but I don't think that will happen.


I don't think miracles have much to do with it:lol: but management generally. The more you understand the principles, the better you'll be able to ascertain whether it may be possible to manage her to give the best chance of her developing strong, 'rock crunching' feet. But even if - like many people in the 'real world' - it's not possible, there are still hoof boots as a generally appropriate alternative to shoes.



> She is sound on the soft grass, on fine sand, in hard ground paddock with no grass (no rain for so long...), but she is walking slowly and carefully over the gravel road.


I don't think 'tender' on gravel necessarily means lame at all(tho it often may). It's not an oxymoron that I'm not lame but at the start of spring(after a winter in warm boots) I can't easily walk on gravel bare either. *That's not to say I think it's a good idea that because it may not be classed as 'lameness' it's good to force the issue... for a horse or for me!:lol: ​


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