# Check out this chestnut



## Ponies (Aug 18, 2012)

Thats pretty! Is that what they call Wheat sorrel/chestnut? Or is it just to certain breeds like the haflinger?


----------



## jillybean19 (Dec 23, 2011)

I call that a... palomino? Hey, I've got one of those! But I don't think he even knows what color he's supposed to be other than "fluff ball" lol


----------



## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

jillybean19 said:


> I call that a... palomino? Hey, I've got one of those! But I don't think he even knows what color he's supposed to be other than "fluff ball" lol


If he is a purebred Arabian, he can't possibly be palomino.


----------



## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

Okay.. why cant he be Pali and purebred Arab?


----------



## jillybean19 (Dec 23, 2011)

Pali doesn't run in Arab genetics. There are no dilute genes in purebred Arabs.


----------



## jillybean19 (Dec 23, 2011)

Are you positive he's pure? I'm currently drooling over a buckskin Arab.... That beautiful color somehow came out in the 1/64 of that horse that isn't pure Arab. If this horse is pure, what color is this? I've never seen it.


----------



## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

Interesting. Never heard that before. But then again, I have never discussed or read so much about colors and dilute genes as on this forum.


----------



## jillybean19 (Dec 23, 2011)

Arabians are about as pure as it gets so they don't have a lot of colors mixed up in them. From what I understand, you get pure Arabs in chestnut, black, bay, and grey. That's about it. There are a few other things that can do funny stuff to a coat as well, like sabino. But I'm not well informed on those.


----------



## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

I don't see where anyone said he was a purebred... Could be partbred, some horses do come out looking 99% one breed when they're a cross... It couls also be he's 99% Arab and 1% something else, who knows?


----------



## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

jillybean19 said:


> Are you positive he's pure? I'm currently drooling over a buckskin Arab.... That beautiful color somehow came out in the 1/64 of that horse that isn't pure Arab. If this horse is pure, what color is this? I've never seen it.


Actually, given that WS posted him, and said that she has plenty of "red chestnuts" but would like one this shade, I am fairly sure that he will turn out to be a purebred.


----------



## jillybean19 (Dec 23, 2011)

Oh, I thought that Chiilaa said he was - I missed the "If"


----------



## jillybean19 (Dec 23, 2011)

Chiilaa said:


> Actually, given that WS posted him, and said that she has plenty of "red chestnuts" but would like one this shade, I am fairly sure that he will turn out to be a purebred.


Good point - I guess we'll have to see what WS says! Where did you find him? name? Lines?


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

He's at the very bottom of this page - Journey's End Opportunities - Colts for Sale

Here is his pedigree - Truman Soe Arabian


----------



## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

Pretty boy! WS buy him and pic spam us


----------



## AQHA13 (Apr 19, 2017)

There are constantly mutations in meiosis, it may not necessarily be true for this foal, but couldn't a dilute gene eventually appear in the Arab breed?


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

It would have to be a completely new mutation. 

None of the currently testable dilute genes (cream, silver, champagne, etc) are found within the Arabian breed.


----------



## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

They will be soon if people keep fudging papers.


----------



## jillybean19 (Dec 23, 2011)

AQHA13 said:


> There are constantly mutations in meiosis, it may not necessarily be true for this foal, but couldn't a dilute gene eventually appear in the Arab breed?


I'd say if it hasn't shown up in the 4,000 or so years that Arabs have been around, I doubt it'll show up anytime soon, if ever.



> They will be soon if people keep fudging papers.


This is true, but I doubt AHA would every allow a horse be registered if it did have a dilute gene and I believe Arabs meant to be bred have to have their DNA on file or something like that. So, fudged papers would only result in one horse being "Arabian" that wasn't, rather than having the dilute gene introduced and passed on.


----------



## jillybean19 (Dec 23, 2011)

The color says Pali, so he's not straight arabian. There's a dilute gene hidden in there somewhere, even though all the horses listed there are Arab. Like I said, this is a case where they're technically "half-arab", even though there's only one horse way back that wasn't an Arab and passed on that gene.

Edit: It's only listed as Pali on ABP, which can be notoriously wrong on occasion. According to the website, he's chestnut, which would make it possible to still be straight Arab.


----------



## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

This guy is 100% Arabian. 
He is registered AHA, but also registered Pali because it's just a colour registry.


----------



## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

MsBHavin said:


> They will be soon if people keep fudging papers.


AHA requires all registered horses be DNA typed. There is no way to get papers for a non-purebred since then. A few tried previously, but papers were revoked.


----------



## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

MsBHavin said:


> Pretty boy! WS buy him and pic spam us


Ha! I'm sure this guy is priced in the high five digits range... A little over my budget right now. LOL


----------



## jillybean19 (Dec 23, 2011)

WSArabians said:


> This guy is 100% Arabian.
> He is registered AHA, but also registered Pali because it's just a colour registry.


This is true - he doesn't technically have to be a dilute to be a "Pali" since it's just appearance, though the dilute is what produced the color most of the time. What Arabian gene would cause this color? I don't know a lot about silver, but would that do it, at least to the mane and tail? I guess you could get that color of chestnut since it comes in so many shades, but that doesn't explain the mane and tail...

One horse I know had a something-or-other plume, which caused an all-black horse to have an all-white tail, and it was a straight Egyptian Arab. So these random genes are rare, but still there... But not dilute!


----------



## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Jillybean, silver does not express on red-based coats. What I'm seeing is a flaxen chestnut that is one of the rare few that are so pale they look pali.

And the plume you are talking about is called a Gulastra plume and is theorized to be caused by sabino.


----------



## jillybean19 (Dec 23, 2011)

Thanks for an answer that makes sense!


----------



## jillybean19 (Dec 23, 2011)

Do you think he'd be able to pass on that color? It seems like one of those things where his just happens to be that shade, but he's genetically no different than any other chestnut.


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Ditto what BEP said. Reds can carry silver, but will not express it. Arabians do not have the silver gene. 

All this guy is is an unusual shade of flaxen chestnut/sorrel not unlike the haflingers... who also are very adept at mimic palominos.


----------



## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

jillybean19 said:


> Do you think he'd be able to pass on that color? It seems like one of those things where his just happens to be that shade, but he's genetically no different than any other chestnut.


I imagine with the right chestnut, he could.
This is Fire An Ice, another registered Arabian who is also registered as a Pali.
He does tend to throw his colour, although he is not near as light as the Trussardi colt. 
My daughter by this guy is just a flaxen chestnut, of course. LOL


----------



## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Genetically we don't know what makes one chestnut lighter or darker than another, so we can't differentiate for certain. Feed can make a huge difference, too, so essentially, how can we know it's genetic and not environmental?

However that being said it is thought that both flaxen and sooty are genetic, pangare most certainly is [why else would it be seen more in some breeds than others?], and I have known several mares that throw chestnut foals of identical shade to themselves. In theory, it COULD be passed on, we just don't know the genetics.


----------



## TheRoundPen (Mar 15, 2012)

WSArabians said:


> I imagine with the right chestnut, he could.
> This is Fire An Ice, another registered Arabian who is also registered as a Pali.
> He does tend to throw his colour, although he is not near as light as the Trussardi colt.
> My daughter by this guy is just a flaxen chestnut, of course. LOL


Off Topic really quuick. I loved Fire An Ice.. And the pictures of his foals are awesome. Do you know what happened to him?


----------



## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

TheRoundPen said:


> Off Topic really quuick. I loved Fire An Ice.. And the pictures of his foals are awesome. Do you know what happened to him?


Everyone keeps trying to find that out. I contacted Tiffany Ranch where he was standing last but awaiting an answer. His last recorded owner passed away, but I heard Fire is still alive but he hasn't been marketed in years.
She also had a Khemosabi son for sale as well that I REALLY liked. 
I'm hoping to breed my daughter of his to my Khemo grandson for a reining baby - boy, can this mare ever engage. Never been broke but she likes to practice her sliding stops. It's too bad I got her so old. lol


----------



## TheRoundPen (Mar 15, 2012)

WSArabians said:


> Everyone keeps trying to find that out. I contacted Tiffany Ranch where he was standing last but awaiting an answer. His last recorded owner passed away, but I heard Fire is still alive but he hasn't been marketed in years.
> She also had a Khemosabi son for sale as well that I REALLY liked.
> I'm hoping to breed my daughter of his to my Khemo grandson for a reining baby - boy, can this mare ever engage. Never been broke but she likes to practice her sliding stops. It's too bad I got her so old. lol


Just thought I would ask. Haha. I heard that she had passed away but that was all I could figure out. I would love to see that cross WS!! Anyways, I'll get this back on topic.

That horse is beautiful!


----------



## NancyPierce (Jan 5, 2013)

I'm not sure who authorized the use of the photo posted to begin this thread, but it is a photo I took of Claudia Hohn's purebred Arabian colt by Trussardi and out of a True Colours daughter. This colt is indeed dna tested to be purebred and is registered with the Arabian Horse Association. He is an unusually pale shade of chestnut that also qualified him for registration with the Palomino Horse Association - so he is also registered with that registry, though he is NOT genetically palomino. There have been so many assumptions and incorrect statements made in public about this colt that I feel compelled to repeat the facts:

1) He is a chestnut purebred Arabian colt.
2) He is registered with the Arabian Horse Association and his parentage has been confirmed by dna testing as required by AHA.
3) He is NOT genetically palomino.
4) NO ONE who knows the colt has EVER claimed he was genetically palomino and in fact, his owner and trainer (as have I) have stated otherwise, repeatedly.
5) He is a very unusual shade of chestnut and has a white mane and tail.
6) His unusual color qualified him for registration with the Palomino Horse Association, a registry that accepts horses for registration based on their outward appearance, NOT on their genetic components.
7) This colt is registered with the Palomino Horse Association as well as the AHA.

And now for an opinion - in addition to his somewhat unusual color, Truman is a lovely colt, very flashy with lots of pizzaz - and very sweet.

Nancy Pierce


----------



## jillybean19 (Dec 23, 2011)

Well, good to know that we did come to the correct conclusion just based on the photo and website info lol. It's nice to get some "official" info! And... I don't believe HF authorizes copywrittten photos to be posted, so it very well could be removed by a Mod but they haven't gotten around to it. Most people don't realize the copywrite doesn't allow it to be copied to other places since it's so easy to do online.


----------



## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

NancyPierce said:


> I'm not sure who authorized the use of the photo posted to begin this thread, but it is a photo I took of Claudia Hohn's purebred Arabian colt by Trussardi and out of a True Colours daughter. This colt is indeed dna tested to be purebred and is registered with the Arabian Horse Association.


I found it on an Arabian site - didn't have any signage attached to it, so I figured it was okay, but I can have them take if off you'd like. 
I just think he's an incredibly cool horse and thought I'd share.


----------



## NancyPierce (Jan 5, 2013)

Thanks, Jillybean - sorry, can't find your real name here. True, most folks don't know not to use copyrighted photos without permission in this day of easy access. Nice to know that this forum doesn't approve of such use in general, though I figure this usage was pretty harmless.  I haven't posted much on forums in the past few years, but this link was in my web site stats, so I found this thread by following the link. I'm a bit surprised that so many forum posters are able to remain anonymous. You folks probably all know each other, but I don't have a clue who I'm talking to, and it seems a bit odd that so many profiles here don't even list names, and no one seems to sign their posts with their names either. lol I tried looking at the profile of the person originating this thread, and couldn't find that person's name either - even went to the web site - and their contact info there - still no name. Who are you people?? 

Nancy


----------



## NancyPierce (Jan 5, 2013)

Hi Whispering Secret Arabians,

No harm done, but just for future reference, if a photo has a photographer's signature on it, and it isn't part of some historical archive, it's probably a copyrighted image.  On what Arabian site did you find the photo - with no reference to owner or photographer?

Thanks!
Nancy


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

That is part of the appeal being on a forum. The ability to be anonymous and not having to sign your name to everything. More so on a large _public_ forum. Not everyone wants their real name or information easily accessible to the masses.


----------



## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

NancyPierce said:


> Hi Whispering Secret Arabians,
> 
> No harm done, but just for future reference, if a photo has a photographer's signature on it, and it isn't part of some historical archive, it's probably a copyrighted image.  On what Arabian site did you find the photo - with no reference to owner or photographer?
> 
> ...


Huh, it is stamped. I didn't even see your signature on there. That's my bad.
It was posted by someone else who had your permission. I missed that line completely. Guess I jumped the gun and made too many assumptions and not reading the fine print.


----------



## NancyPierce (Jan 5, 2013)

You are certainly entitled to your thoughts on the subject, NdAppy.  Years ago, I frequented several "large public forums" and I have vivid, though certainly not fond, memories of the drama and bad feelings that often resulted from anonymous posts. That's probably the biggest reason I don't miss the forums - any people back then who took great pains to remain anonymous were usually bad news. Maybe those problems don't exist on public forums these days. I sincerely hope that is the case.  I guess I just prefer accountability, and the ability to hide one's true identity while posting publicly doesn't provide for that. Of course, I'm probably more than a bit "brainwashed" because I haven't frequented a public forum in a long time and have become accustomed to working with people in the horse world who are breeding and selling horses, and it is my business to be SURE people DO know who they are and where they can be found and to make sure all the cards are on the table, so to speak.  If anonymity works for you folks here, that's great. I was just surprised, when I was beginning my initial response on this thread, that I couldn't find a "real person" to address my remarks to. No biggie. 

Best regards,
Nancy


----------



## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

NancyPierce said:


> You are certainly entitled to your thoughts on the subject, NdAppy.  Years ago, I frequented several "large public forums" and I have vivid, though certainly not fond, memories of the drama and bad feelings that often resulted from anonymous posts. That's probably the biggest reason I don't miss the forums - any people back then who took great pains to remain anonymous were usually bad news. Maybe those problems don't exist on public forums these days. I sincerely hope that is the case.  I guess I just prefer accountability, and the ability to hide one's true identity while posting publicly doesn't provide for that. Of course, I'm probably more than a bit "brainwashed" because I haven't frequented a public forum in a long time and have become accustomed to working with people in the horse world who are breeding and selling horses, and it is my business to be SURE people DO know who they are and where they can be found and to make sure all the cards are on the table, so to speak.  If anonymity works for you folks here, that's great. I was just surprised, when I was beginning my initial response on this thread, that I couldn't find a "real person" to address my remarks to. No biggie.
> 
> Best regards,
> Nancy


Oh, I can certainty see where you're coming from. Usually when I need a photo as an example, I try to use one of my own. I usually try not to find paid photographs, but I guess I got all caught up in the moment and didn't pay attention. Especially if someone uses it in a negative way.
I figure I'm pretty accessible, though. I keep the same username wherever I go, have my website up, and all my contact information is on there.
I may find myself ruffling someone's feather's now and then, but it wouldn't be hard for them to find me. LOL
You do a fantastic job, by the way. I'd love to send my porkers to you, to see what you could do with them. :lol:

Steff


----------



## NancyPierce (Jan 5, 2013)

Thanks, Steff. I appreciate being able to address you by name. I had looked on your web site and didn't find your name there, but I did look up M S Aurelius on datasource and saw he was registered to you.  Lucky you to have an *Ecaho son. Thanks, too, for your kind words about my photos. You have some very nicely bred horses. 

Nancy


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Also have to point out that on these forums are quite a few minors... for their safety as well it is better that they keep things anonymous and not post personal information... The way things are it is better to keep personal information off searchable forums. Too many freaks out there that could use that information for lord only knows what.

As for addressing people... You address them by their forum name unless they have posted otherwise if you don't know their name. 

As for us all knowing each other? Hardly. I know very few people on this forum personally.


----------



## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

Is it maybe possible he's a very light flaxen chestnut?


----------



## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Nokotaheaven said:


> Is it maybe possible he's a very light flaxen chestnut?


That's what he is, but you just don't see it very often, in purebred Arabians.
He's a unique guy for sure!


----------



## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

WSArabians said:


> That's what he is, but you just don't see it very often, in purebred Arabians.
> He's a unique guy for sure!


Oh wow, he certainly is


----------



## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

NancyPierce said:


> Thanks, Steff. I appreciate being able to address you by name. I had looked on your web site and didn't find your name there, but I did look up M S Aurelius on datasource and saw he was registered to you.  Lucky you to have an *Ecaho son. Thanks, too, for your kind words about my photos. You have some very nicely bred horses.
> 
> Nancy


You know, I didn't even think of my website! It's being all tore down and redone anyhow, so that's something I'll add on there! I started it and then got distracted. 
And thanks! Reed (MS Aurelius) is a pretty cool guy. I happened to stumble upon him at just the right time and was able to snatch him up before he ever hit the market - looking foward to getting shown under saddle!


----------



## grayshell38 (Mar 9, 2009)

Lovely boy in the OP! Gorgeous color. Man, I remember the drama that came up around Fire An Ice! Whew! Glad they are down to earth about marketing the young colt.


----------



## NancyPierce (Jan 5, 2013)

grayshell38, 
I just hope people will appreciate the colt for what he is - a pretty, athletic colt with an unusual shade of chestnut. 

Steff, 
I look forward to seeing your new web site - and to seeing Reed showing under saddle. I love finding cool horses like him that no one else has discovered yet - you must have a good eye. 

NdAppy, 
I completely agree that minors should not post their contact information in public anywhere. And since you mentioned it, minors' safety on the internet seems to me an even better reason for adult forum posters to provide their real names in their profiles. The greatest danger to minors on the internet comes from adults who are concealing their true identities. Guess that's another reason I'm immediately distrustful of any adult on the internet who takes great pains to conceal his/her real identity - particularly on an internet forum that is host to quite a few minors. I don't have a problem with keeping more detailed personal information off the web, but I do think an adult should use his/her real name. You are free to disagree with me, of course, and I am happy to agree to disagree.  

I understand the idea of creating a cute forum name that makes some kind of statement about a person's peronality or interests, and I understand people not signing their names to every post - I just thought I would find the real name in a person's profiles, that's all. 

Please note that I DID address people here by their forum names when I didn't know their real ones. 

Best regards,
Nancy


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

I did note that, I was just clarifying.  And I will agree to disagree on that.  Mostly because there are minors that pretend to be adults and adult that pretend to be minors and so on. 


Anywho, the colt pictured in the first post is for sure a cute guy. The registering as palomino irks me though... but then so the color only registries and junk registries. :rofl:


----------



## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

Well... On this post here I do trust you guys. Please correct me if I'm wrong for saying this, but I am a minor, and to you guys here you can call me Mel, if you wish


----------



## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

I mean... My opinion on the subject is I don't mind if people call me by my real name, it's not like im handing out my number or address or anything.


----------

