# Time to Talk



## ArabGirly (Jan 23, 2017)

I've been with my trainers for 8 years now. I have most definitely grown as an equestrian and would say I am a fairly good rider. I have ridden multiple green horses and horses in training, and while I do think my skills are developing, I am not pleased with how long it's taking.
Due to not being old enough to drive, I can only make it out to the barn on the weekends. It's a short drive, only 15 minutes, but it's out of the way of our regular commute. 
I love my barn and my trainers and the horses to no end. They are wonderful, caring people who truly care about me and my family. However, I need to talk with my main trainer (the owner of the barn) about a hard topic: where I want to go with my riding.
Currently I ride mostly Arabians but I would like to move into Warmbloods. I am a Hunter Jumper and am focusing solely on Dressage at the moment, but I plan on going back to jumping soon. Anyway, I do not own a horse and am very fortunate to show my trainer's lesson horses. I know that my options are limited because I don't own a horse, but I need to talk about my goals with my trainer. I'd like to discuss the fact that I want to move up in the levels and show at large shows, along with riding Warmbloods. I'm not sure how to go about this conversation, though. 

Anyone have any ideas/tips/help? It's much appreciated!:gallop:


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## ThoroughbredBug (Jan 18, 2017)

A good opener for talking to trainers or instructors about riding/level/skills/changing the direction you want to go in: Ask about them! Ask them about who they worked with to get where they are now. Who do they think taught them the most useful skills? Doing this lets them reflect on their journey, and how they've grown and changed. When you bring up that you want to change up the routine a bit, and go into things different from what they've been focusing on, it'll make sense in the grand scheme of your riding journey. I've done this with two former instructors, and with a training partner with whom I wanted to change the direction of our work. It's a good way to ease into the conversation you want to have, and if you are hearing them out and get cold feet and decide it's not the right time to bring up your true "agenda" it's easy to breeze over it and not bring it up.


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## ArabGirly (Jan 23, 2017)

ThoroughbredBug said:


> A good opener for talking to trainers or instructors about riding/level/skills/changing the direction you want to go in: Ask about them! Ask them about who they worked with to get where they are now. Who do they think taught them the most useful skills? Doing this lets them reflect on their journey, and how they've grown and changed. When you bring up that you want to change up the routine a bit, and go into things different from what they've been focusing on, it'll make sense in the grand scheme of your riding journey. I've done this with two former instructors, and with a training partner with whom I wanted to change the direction of our work. It's a good way to ease into the conversation you want to have, and if you are hearing them out and get cold feet and decide it's not the right time to bring up your true "agenda" it's easy to breeze over it and not bring it up.


Thank you so much for the help!

I suppose I am just afraid to ask and hear what my options are. I also just don't know how to ask, simply put. I don't know what to say and I'm afraid that I will say the wrong thing for a coach to hear.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

that's an excellent idea; to get them to think on their own experience. in conversation, it's always good to be able to get the other person to talk about themselves.

but, if your trainer is any good, she may be expecting this to happen, since she's training you so that you WILL move up and on. teachers don't want their pupils to be stuck in the same grade forever.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

The first thing that comes to my mind is, is your trainer an Arab trainer? Do you show at breed shows? Is your trainer strictly a dressage trainer? If so, then going on to warmbloods and jumping with THAT trainer may not be possible. If not, and you've just drawn the Arabian school horses, then there's no reason you should be afraid to bring up what kind of horse you would like to have as your dream horse and to mention that you're missing jumping a lot. 

Trainers are our teachers, and to be be effective they need to know where we want to go. So if you're currently doing only dressage and want to do jumping, unless she's strictly a dressage trainer, she should be happy to start working you that direction. Otherwise, if you get to wanting bad enough, she'll lose a paying and otherwise satisfied client, not something a smart trainer wants to happen.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

You have nothing to lose. I'd simply just sit down and talk with her about what you would like to do in the future. Like, 'I was thinking of doing this...but not exactly sure how to go about getting there' etc. Unless she only does dressage, then she shouldn't hesitate to help you along to reach your goal.  After all, that's what a trainer is for!


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

My thoughts are two fold.

Firstly, it is important to have an open discussion with those we pay to teach us about what our goals are. Horseback riding is an expensive sport, and there's no point shelling out money when you're not getting what you want out of it. So, absolutely address your goals and the direction you want to head.

Where I get caught up is the "I want to ride WBs vs Arabs." 
Alright, cool... buy yourself one. 
When you're part of a lesson program, and are using horses that do not belong to you, your options are limited to what the owners of those horses allow you to ride. So be prepared to start shopping.


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## Chasin Ponies (Dec 25, 2013)

Does your trainer have Warmbloods available for you to ride or is it all Arabs? That's the big question. If the stable only has Arabs, you will have to go looking for a stable and a new trainer to get yourself into Warmbloods and H/J. If she does have the type of horse you want to ride, there should be no problem discussing a switch with her. It should be a non-issue as you are a paying customer.


It sounds like changing stables would be difficult since you only can make it out to your current stable on weekends. How much harder is it going to be (and how much more money is it going to cost?) to switch stables and trainers? Sounds like your parents aren't exactly willing to go out of their way to provide transportation. (That was a huge issue when I was a kid!!) Also, at a new stable you will be starting over at the lowest "pecking" order and may or may not be allowed to show their horses.


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## ArabGirly (Jan 23, 2017)

Okay so thanks everyone and to answer some of your questions -- My trainer does low level Jumping and she excels in Dressage since that is what she as an equestrian put her mind to. My issue is that in order to get to the place I want to be, I have to leave my current stable or ride at two stables at once. I don't want to just up and leave though, so I want her opinion. I'm just unsure of how to bring up the conversation while in a group lesson...?

An ideal situation for me is to ride at a H/J barn that's within biking distance of my house and continue to train Dressage with my current barn. I'm not sure if it's realistic, though, and when I speak to my coach I don't want to bring up leaving. I just want to discuss my goals and how to achieve them. My problem is starting the conversation! I have no clue what to say. :/


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I think the first conversation you need to have is with your parents. I know that I would tell my child that she could have lessons in either H/J at one barn or dressage at the other but she would have to pick ONE discipline. A/ It's very expensive to try to do both, and B/ Trying to learn 2 usually means you don't focus on either very well.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

If you have been at that barn for 8 years I suspect part of your issue may be that you have developed a friendship with those teaching you. One never wants to disappoint or seem ungrateful with those we care about. It sounds like you have outgrown what you are doing. I think it is exciting that you are eager to step it up and increase your skills. Hopefully there is a horse at the barn that will fill the bill for you.
It sounds like you have a good relationship with those at your barn so they probably want you to be happy and successful. Be honest about how far you have come and where you want to go...and how you get there.
It's all called growing pains. And it never ends but does get easier as you get more age and experience. Good luck to you and keep us posted!


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

Be cautious about riding at two barns. Some trainers will take major offense to that.


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## SansPeurDansLaSelle (May 6, 2013)

I've ridden with probably somewhere around 15 trainers throughout my riding career to date and I think it has been very beneficial. I have often ridden at two different barns or with two or more different trainers at a time, it allows you to get different perspectives which can be very helpful. The barn I ride at now has four trainers working together so we can always get a fresh set of eyes or a different way to tackle a problem. 

That said, this really should not be a difficult conversation with your current trainer, most lesson barns know that their most ambitious clients will eventually want to move on to bigger places, in fact it's a testament to their training that you are ready to move on. When I was in high school my main trainer at the time got me started in the jumpers and I leased a great horse from her, we were very successful at the local level but after two years I was ready to move up so I just told her what my goals were and asked for her suggestions on getting there. She was thrilled that I wanted to step up and hooked me in with a good friend of hers who got me down to WEF doing the Children's Jumpers in a matter of months. She and I are still very good friends and she is happy to see me doing well and knows that it is because she got me started down this road ten years ago. Point is, just be open and honest and ask for her suggestions, you might be surprised what she comes back with.

As an aside, as someone mentioned earlier, the really important people to have this conversation with are your parents. Before you even go to your current trainer you need to know what kind of a time and financial commitment they are willing to put into this. Even stepping up to being competitive on the local H/J circuit now requires a pretty nice horse, good training, and a fair amount of showing, that all adds up in both time and money invested. It's good to know what your expectations can be before you get your heart broken.

P.S. Have you considered joining or starting an IEA team?


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

ThoroughbredBug said:


> A good opener for talking to trainers or instructors about riding/level/skills/changing the direction you want to go in: Ask about them! Ask them about who they worked with to get where they are now. Who do they think taught them the most useful skills? Doing this lets them reflect on their journey, and how they've grown and changed. When you bring up that you want to change up the routine a bit, and go into things different from what they've been focusing on, it'll make sense in the grand scheme of your riding journey. I've done this with two former instructors, and with a training partner with whom I wanted to change the direction of our work. It's a good way to ease into the conversation you want to have, and if you are hearing them out and get cold feet and decide it's not the right time to bring up your true "agenda" it's easy to breeze over it and not bring it up.


Ok, for the topic of dealing with trainers who teach riding, I'm probably not the person with a lot of experience to pass on. I only had one trainer from the time I was 11-14.

The above is excellent advice, but for more than just the reasons listed. The safest and best approach for not possibly offending them (if they're even the type to be offended) is to approach them in a manner of seeking their opinion and advice. It gives their opinion of what you should do importance and reduces any chance of them becoming offended.

As for warmbloods and hotbloods. There I do have experience. I've riddens TB and Arabians (the only hotbloods I'm experienced with), Shires, Percherons, and Clydes (the cold bloods I've dealt with), and a whole host of warmbloods (TWH, QH, Friesians, Hanoverians, etc...as well as my current Georgian Grandes, that are wonderful). For my experience unless you plan on having a pulling contest (where you'll what a large, coldblood draught breed), or flat track racing (where the hotbloods dominate), you can't do better than a warm blood. That's coming as both a rider (who's ridden all three varieties) and a horse trainer (I don't train people to ride, but I do train horses). They are far more level headed then the hotbloods and give more than the coldbloods. The best of both worlds (and of course there will no shortage of people who will disagree with me....they're allowed to...but it doesn't change my opinion after dealing with a variety of horse since 1968 at 11 years old). My grandfather would tell you the same thing (if he were still alive) and he was born in the 1800 in a age when horses and walking were the only way you could travel other than a train. My one surviving aunt remembers when the first automobile in the county arrived and that was in the 1930's (or late 20's...I'll need to ask her). But I digress.

If you approach your trainers in a afore mentioned manner (asking them about their opinion and advice), and considering that you've been with them for 8 years, I would think that they would be quite willing to give you advice on how to go about moving on to warmbloods. They might well point out that you can do what you want with their hotbloods, but that's understandable. For me, I can well understand the desire to move up. All things being equal I've yet to see a hotblood that could measure up to the abilities to a warmblood (outside of racing where they are the best choice). My older mare was clearing the 44" high fence that divided the pastures when she was 4 and that was with zero training (she'd never even seen another horse jump). It is something to watch a 1200 lb animal do that when you think about the strength that it takes to propel that much weight that high and they do it with an almost effortless ease. Probably explains why warmblood breeds dominate the none racing and jumping equine sports.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

its lbs not miles said:


> .... warmblood breeds dominate the non-racing and jumping equine sports.


Endurance. Hot bloods dominate racing, jumping, and endurance. That's a lot of domination, really. Not that I disagree that a mix of hot and cold makes the best riding horse in general.


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

Avna said:


> Endurance. Hot bloods dominate racing, jumping, and endurance. That's a lot of domination, really. Not that I disagree that a mix of hot and cold makes the best riding horse in general.


I will never understand why so may people think that "warm bloods" are crosses between cold and hot (this is not water).

Just as a point of information for all who don't, for whatever reason, realize it here a "few" of the massive number of warm blood horse breeds (literally just a tip of the iceberg on all the warm blood horse breeds). Many have been around for over 1,000 years.
The Baroque breeds are warm bloods (Lipizzaner, Friesian, Andalusian, etc...). Virtually every breed created in the US is a warm blood (Missouri Fox Trotter, Standardbred, TWH, AQH, RMH, Mustang, etc.....). There's the Holsteiner, Oldenburg, etc... The list of warm blood horse breeds is massive. Most breeds of horse are actually warm bloods and most where not the result of one hot blood and one cold blood parent. Now many of the popular new warm bloods, or sport horse, depending on where your from (e.g. a Belgian Warmblood is a Belgian Sporthorse depending on where in Belgium it's registered) can be the result of crossing hot and cold blood, but they do not make up the majority of the warm blood breeds. They are just the result of breeders working towards making a better horse by crossing to make improvements. Even then, they are often not the result of hot and cold. Many are the result of crossing warm bloods with different warm bloods.

A simple study on what horse breeds are winning most of the eventing, cross country, etc... makes it pretty clear that warm bloods dominate the non racing equine competitions. All things being equal they don't have the speed of the faster hot blood breeds or the pulling power of the massive heavy draught breeds, but they are incredible athletes and what most of the world class competitors use and what they are winning with. The "proof is in the pudding". Just look at what most of the Olympic competitors use. You won't find as many hot blood horses as you do warm bloods.

You're allowed to have your opinion on what makes the best riding horse. I've ridden all three. The horse I started on was a wonderful Percheron and it was the perfect horse for a little 11 year old to start on. As nice, sweet and forgiving of anything I did wrong as I could have wanted. I've ridden Arabians and TB. Not a fan of either. Doesn't mean they're not good for what someone else wants to do, but just not what I like doing. I'll take the QH as a great working animal. First horse I trained at 14 was a QH and she was a wonderful, very hard working animal (I worked cattle and hunted from her back). For an enjoyable smooth ride I'll take a TWH (the first stallion I trained was a TWH). Five miles of very smooth riding that kept up with the trotting horses and never broke stride (although I'd love to try a RMH one day). All of which are warm bloods. Warm bloods tend to have far nicer personalities and I love the power. My 1200 lb warm blood made it look effortless when she was sailing over the 44" pasture divider (annoying, but beautiful). While I've seen different warm blood breeds perform "airs about the ground" I've never seen anyone do it with a hot blood breed. So, for a great many reasons I can easily understand why warm blood horses are without questions the most popular breeds in the world (which would account for why there are so many more warm blood horses than hot or cold). For most people it's really just a question of which warm blood breed they prefer. There are SO many to choose from.


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

Avna said:


> Endurance. Hot bloods dominate racing, jumping, and endurance. That's a lot of domination, really. Not that I disagree that a mix of hot and cold makes the best riding horse in general.


 
Oh, and "endurance" is a race. Although people do compete in endurance races with warm bloods, they don't often win. But I already excluded racing from the areas that warm bloods out perform hot bloods.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

I'm not arguing with you. When I said a mix of hot and cold I didn't mean that literally, as in putting a Shire to an Arabian. There are people who would quibble with the idea that endurance is a race -- finishing is all many riders set out to do. Plus if you want to stretch the point just a little, there are other venues such at competitive trail rides which have an endurance component but are not races. Arabs do well at these too. 

But hey, I have a Morgan. If I got another horse, I'd get a .... Morgan.


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

Avna said:


> I'm not arguing with you. When I said a mix of hot and cold I didn't mean that literally, as in putting a Shire to an Arabian. There are people who would quibble with the idea that endurance is a race -- finishing is all many riders set out to do. Plus if you want to stretch the point just a little, there are other venues such at competitive trail rides which have an endurance component but are not races. Arabs do well at these too.
> 
> But hey, I have a Morgan. If I got another horse, I'd get a .... Morgan.


) I wasn't taking it as an argument. I simply qualified my statement for those who might not be aware that most horse breeds in the world are warm bloods and they dominate the none racing (or heavy pulling) equine competitions. Mainly because warm bloods are more versatile and capable of excelling at more things than hot or cold bloods. Breeds were developed for desired traits and most of the traits wanted or needed required warm bloods (not all though...hot and cold bloods have their niche).

:grin: I have no doubt that some endurance riders would (and have) quibble over "endurance" being a race. Been there, done that. Along with some riders view that endurance is "long distance riding", but ask them load their "racing" horse and ride 500+ miles carrying everything they'll need and they find excuses why that's not the same. They're right, it's not the same. That's long distance riding. It's not a race. It's long distance riding vs the long distance (set distance in a set time) racing that they do. There are endurance riders who not only just care about finishing, but there are some who just want to finish in the top 10 with the best conditioned horse. I've had a rider point out that warm bloods have won endurance races (actually, more than one rider :grin and I would never dispute that. Some of theses warm bloods are Arabian crosses, but not all. However, they had to concede that the hot bloods (Arabians in particular), as a breed type, do dominate among the endurance winners.

I've had people quibble that cross country was a race and it could be looked at as one if viewed a certain way since it is based on time and number of faults. It's just not generally viewed as a race. Steeplechase is the jumping race (or perhaps obstacle course race might describe it better :grin. The same holds true for competitive trail riding since it's about the time taken, but if we use time to determine if something is endurance then just about all equine competitions are endurance from flat track racing to bronc riding :rofl: (and endurance is an important part of flat track racing since it's not how fast they are at the start, but if they have the endurance to keep the speed up to the end). I doubt many endurance racers would consider things requiring time to qualify as being endurance
Yes, I've dealt with the "quibblers" before. Most endurance racers I've met don't deny the fact that it's a race.

The Morgan is an excellent example of why warm bloods are so extremely popular. It's a great all around horse that does well at many things. Until the 20th century it was (as with many others) a great country horse that could meet all the needs of someone living in the country (ride, pull wagons, etc...), has good disposition and is very dependable. They were popular with many people from farmers to cavalry troopers (until the US Cav started buying massive numbers of horses in the late 1800/early 1900 and price became driving force). Last year, on my way home after some days of camp training with one of my mares, a guy pulled over and asked me if my horse was a Morgan. They had just lost their Morgan to a snake bite (swelling closed off the wind pipe....horses seldom die from snake bite on the leg). Of course I had them get out so they could consider the size of my horse. Morgan over 16 hands would be rare, but I can see where the mistake could be made from driving by in a vehicle.

But we're getting WAY off topic. Hopefully the OP will find a warm blood situation that fits her needs.


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