# Possible Buy.. Critique?



## eventer89 (Apr 14, 2009)

Hello everyone! This is my first time posting on this forum. I moved here to FL a year ago from MA with my fiancee and we couldn't afford to take my mare, Allie, with us, so I gave her to my mom. She is 15 now and retired to trails for my mom, so it actually worked out good because I didn't have to sell her, and my mom absolutely loves the mare to death. She bakes her muffins every weekend!!! LOL!

Anywho, it's been a little over a year and now I am financially able to purchase and keep a horse again. I am so excited! I have been training a couple different horses for a friend for the past 8 months, but haven't had my own horse. I am looking for my new eventing project. I am looking for something between 3 and 7 years old, at least 15hh, and 100% sound of course.

I have found about 25 different horses in my area in my price range I have narrowed it down to about 5.

I am going to see this horse on Thursday. (2 days... I cant wait!) What do you all think?

Thoroughbred Horse For Sale, Florida, Plant City












 
Here is the information I've gotten from several emails:

Noble is a super sweet VERY LAID back horse. Always has been. He began his riding career with 6 months training for the track, the trainer decided he did not have his heart in it to be a race horse, and at that time as a 3 year old my friend purchased him as a stallion and gelded him (even though he is no different as he stands today as far as behavior) she then used him as a trail horse. Back in 09/08 my friend was injured (not by him) and was unable to ride until January of this year, in the mean time (no health insurance) causing great hardship on their finances, they had to make the decision to sell a horse and Noble was to be the one. His deciding factor was they have 3 horses total and 2 keep up with each other on the trail and noble (IS SLOWER) then her husbands horse so they go on trail rides and are around 20 feet apart which is no fun. She loves him and this is hard for them to see him go but he has to. In the mean time I volunteered to keep him until he sells. My sister was working closely with an English trainer for a problem horse she had and asked her to come out and give us her opinion on Noble. She loved him, said she thinks he would be perfect for a lesson horse, or someone working with a trainer that can teach them both at the same time to become a hunter/jumper. She asked him to go over the jump and said by the 3rd time he was setting himself up to jump. She was very impressed by his willingness to do anything that was asked of him and retained everyth ing very well. She stated with very little training he could easily be taught to jump! He is not spooky at all, the whole time she was riding we were swinging on swings and 4 wheelers going up and down the road. He is an awesome mount. You will be impressed by him!

He is being sold with NO papers. He was registered but my friend purchased him w/out the papers. He does not have a tattoo (he never made it to the track), the understanding I have is that the horse was at the trainers (track training) and the trainer informed the owner at that time that he would not continue due to Noble not having speed or the heart to race, the owner then gave/relinguished Noble to the trainer in lieu of $$'s owed for time and training, the trainer then sold the horse to my friend as an unpapered horse. He does darken up in the summer when stalled out of the sun. He has been turned out 24/7 doing nothing from last September until 5 weeks ago. He does not wear shoes. My friend used bumper spurs on him, I however think he works fine off leg pressure.


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## eventer89 (Apr 14, 2009)

I asked her to send me pictures of his legs, and this is what she sent:


"That was not easy, he won't leave you alone! please excuse him, he is DIRTY! His behavior is how he is 24/7! oh, yes he can be lazy, esp. on the trail SLOW. or maybe I shouldn't say lazy, just not in a hurry."


I hope he isn't too lazy, I dont like lazy horses. We will see on Thursday!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

He looks like he travels nice but I am not sure about his feet. They look really underrun with zero heel. I would def have some x-rays taken during the PPE if you decide to get him. Let us know how it goes.


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## KatieStanley (May 16, 2008)

I have my mare for sale right now and she would be perfect for you! Too bad I'm in East TX.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

The underrun heels jump out at me. He looks sound enough in the video, but definitely have his legs checked. He needs more foot to work with. Don't worry about his "l'll get there someday" personality. He's probably just a big sweetheart. I don't think they make lazy TB's.


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## eventnwithwinston (Feb 15, 2009)

His feet seem to jump out at me too. I wasnt too impressed with the video, but I think that was b/c the rider was horrible =/
I wouldnt worry about the whole slowness thing either. Hes a TB!  Plus his video made him look pretty quick toward the end.


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## eventer89 (Apr 14, 2009)

Thanks for the opinions guys! Katie, I saw your post on Addy and breifly considered driving to Texas. But that's a LONG drive! lol!

I am also concerned with the underrun heels - the angles dont seem the same, either. I noticed very breifly in the video near the end when he is coming straight at you, it looks like he is winging out a little? Anyone else see this? I had to watch the video about 12 times to see it.


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## eventer89 (Apr 14, 2009)

Eventwithwinston, I wasn't to impressed either, but I am looking for a project (which the price reflects) so I am not looking for a finished horse. And yes, the rider was nothing special, lol. They sent me a video of him cantering, but for some reason youtube is saying its a duplicate video even though its not.


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## eventnwithwinston (Feb 15, 2009)

Ah. A project. In that case...for that price... I think he would make a nice project horse. 

Hope everything goes well  Keep us posted. 
E


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## eventer89 (Apr 14, 2009)

I figured out the video situation. Here is the other one they sent me.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Wow, his lope seems really off. He has virtually no bend in his knees or hocks when he moves out and it makes it look like he has a pretty rough gait. :/ Plus his stride seems really short. IDK, that vid makes me wonder about his soundness now and what problems he may have in the future.


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## eventnwithwinston (Feb 15, 2009)

I agree with Smrobs. While his canter was a nice pace and smooth...He had no bend to his joints- very stiff. I would look into his vet/farrier history and if hes had any problems before. Stifle issues (and others) are a big no-no, project horse or not.


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## eventer89 (Apr 14, 2009)

The owner told me he has never been injured, (but she IS trying to sell the horse, and people are not always honest.) Though she did say he's just started getting back to work, and with an inexperienced rider not knowing how to asks the horse to bend and flex and really stretch out, I can understand why he would be stiff, but definitely something to be very cautious of. Thanks for the opinions's guys, please keep them coming!


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

I know nothing about hoof angles, heel etc etc but their reason for selling the horse and the story attached about his history is also not giving me good vibes. Not sure what it is. The price for what he is doesn't sound right either. Also a tb, thats registered but has no papers or tattoo?? huh?

Pass this one on.


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## eventer89 (Apr 14, 2009)

I agree about the no tattoo or papers situation... I feel a little funny about it. I dont really have high hopes for this horse, but I am still going to go meet him and give him a shot. More opinions?


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## eventer89 (Apr 14, 2009)

So I went to go see this horse yesterday, and all I can say is that I am in completely in love. He is THE sweetest horse I have ever met! He likes to cuddle! He will follow you around the paddock, and will even follow you if you run and jump the jumps, he trots right behind/next to you and jumps the jumps! I really really love him... he rides amazing! I had him W/T/C and a small x on the buckle the whole time! He was SO responsive to me, it was unbelievable. He had trouble picking up his right lead, but did get it, and even did a couple flying changes in both directions. The owners were floored and couldnt believe he could do everything we did so well. He has only had 6 months of race training and then been a trail horse for his whole life since he wasn't cut out for the track. He does have a pretty underrun heel, but IS completely sound.

BUT.... (of course there has to be a but...) I ran my fingers down either side of his spine and he flinched a LOT in the middle of his back. My mare had the same problem when I got her, and it was because she rode with her head high and her back hollow for so long. A couple adjustments and a few massages later, along with proper muscling and lifting her back and enaging her hindquarters and accepting the bit, she was 100% in about 6 months..... I am trying to find a chiropractor in my area and a vet to call and get their opinion and get a PPE done. He didN'T pin his ears or try to bite when ran my fingers down his spine, but he twitched a lot and hollowed his back... could he possibly just be ticklish? Or do you think a couple adjustments and the proper muscling will fix it? I REALLY want this horse, but not if he is not going to stay sound or always be in pain. He did swish his tail a lot when I rode him, but seems VERY happy and really enjoyed working.

He does paddle (pretty badly with his left front, you can see it towards the end in the video where he it trotting straight at me. But his feet seem to land straight and he is overall sound. 

There was a peacock screaming with his feathers out, a huge ride on lawn mower, kids running and screaming, and even a few gun shots. He lifted his head a little in surprise, but that's it! Not even one spook!


They are asking $1500 OBO, and I remember the lady telling me that she told someone that offered her $1,000 no, but they didn't like the person anyway and didn't want her buying him. I was thinking of offering $1100, since I will have to get a vet check ($200+), chiro work ($50-100+) x 2-3, and massages ($50-100+) x 3 - 4 before he is 100%. What do you think? She told me she really hopes that I buy him, because she saw how well we worked together and thinks we are a good fit..... What do you guys honestly think?


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

eventer89 said:


> BUT.... (of course there has to be a but...) I ran my fingers down either side of his spine and he flinched a LOT in the middle of his back.ELP!!!!!!!


I'm not sure who the person riding him in the videos was but she was not doing him any favors. Bless him - he was trying but she was in his way the whole ride. I will bet that accounts to a good portion of his sore back.

He moves much more freely in the second set of videos.


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## eventer89 (Apr 14, 2009)

She told me it was her "trainer" in the videos... I responded with an "oh." And that was it... lol I didn't want to offend her and tell her her trainer is a terrible rider and is not doing him any help, just in case her trainer was also a friend. lol.


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

The videos are hard to see - but her looks like he is bending a bit more in the newer post.

What exactly do you want to do with him?If you plan on hunter/jumper you need to post pictures of his jump. You also should check if he is associated with obstacles that YOU will run into later on. Such as dogs, car alarms, cell phones, other animals, bells, etc etc. 

As for the no get up and go, that no problem, no horse is (TB non-the-less) that lazy. If you do end up getting this horse, just watch his hooves and legs. I'd also look more into the no tattoo, no papers deal. 

And he's gray, correct, gray is a lucky color on a TB


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

If you rode him and liked him and he passes the PPE, I don't see any reason not to proceed. He does move freer in the new videos and his back pain may just be due to how he has been ridden. Since the owner said that she likes you, I would offer 1000 and go from there.

But with the no tattoo, no papers thing. There is really no way to be sure so you would basically be buying an unregistered horse.


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## eventer89 (Apr 14, 2009)

I plan on eventing with him. I dont have any pictures of me jumping him, my friend that went with me couldnt work my camera so all the pictures came our horrible. (Blurry, bad timing, etc.) But he has JUST been started over a VERY small x (the one in the ad picture) and really seems to thoroughly enjoy it. I am not too worried about him not having papers, as he is a gelding so he can't be bred. I've never heard that Gray is a lucky color... how cool! Any other commets? I am going to call her this evening and make an offer PENDING vet check. :-D I am so excited!!!!


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

I agree, if you want him, offer your price, and go from there.

When at the races, always bet on a gray horse, lucky color.. thats what i do.


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## xpyrrohs (Feb 16, 2009)

I read all the posts and saw all the video's and nothing jumped out at me too much as far as him being a "bad egg". I'd buy him in a heart beat. He's got a great attitude and personality. The one thing I'd look for though, is his trainability. Take him on a trial run and see how fast he picks things up. If he's not too fast of a learner, don't worry about it, but if he doesn't pick things up or if he doesn't remember, I'd pass. There is nothing more annoying than having to work on the same thing for a month before moving on to something different... Well, that may be just me, Pyro picks things up super fast, just like Rio, so dealing with a "slower" horse frustrates me.

Good luck! I think he's an awesome prospect horse!


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## eventer89 (Apr 14, 2009)

Unfortunately they wont let me do a trial. I've tried, but they said no. They dont feel comfortable being liable if something happens when he is not in their care. I've tried, but they wont let me. Should this send up a red flag?


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## eventer89 (Apr 14, 2009)

I am going to go see him one more time before I make an offer.


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## rider4life422 (Apr 11, 2009)

I know of a trainer that requires the person who has the horse on trial to inssure the horse for the time that he is on trial. I would definately want to do a trial because you never know what the owner might have him on to "mask" any problems. If he is in your care than you know he is not getting anything. Just my opinion.


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## ohmyitschelle (Aug 23, 2008)

If he's a project horse, then I can understand the reason for not trialing... it happens here a lot... cheap horses are hardly trialed, because they're cheap for a reason. The owner doesn't want the hassle of having the horse go off and potentially have any "bad" work put into it and then have it return. I'd say if he passes the PRE, buy him. Nothing stands out as incredibly bad or unfixable, and he's moving more freely in the second batch of videos.
Good luck, he's a cutie.
x


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## eventer89 (Apr 14, 2009)

I went and tried him again today. The last time I tried him he had trouble picking up his right lead. (Understandable for having nothing but 6 months of race training and then a year of trail riding then a year of sitting in a pasture.) Well this time he picked it right up the first time. I was so proud of him!! They had someone try him this morning and wanted to buy him, but I had called the other day and said I wanted to try him one more time before I made a decision, so she told them she would let them know what I decied before she would let them buy him. They had another person call as I was riding him schedule an appointment to come see him. Then right after I made her an offer and she accepted it (pending vet check) a person who came to see him last week called and said they wanted to purchase him. She replied with a "I'm sorry but he just sold pending a vet check. I will let you know if something changes." I was grinning from ear to ear lol!


I LOVE HIM!!!! I am so excited!!! His back and bum are sore because he went from being in a pasture for a year to being ridden quite a lot in the past week, and clearly not by a good rider who can ride him effectively. I am going to give him a week of no work and just work on getting to know eachother and doing ground work and stretching and stuff. Should I hold off on the stretching until his muscles aren't sore anymore? What about riding? Should I wait until he is completely not sore at all anymore before I ride him? After he gets a week off I was going to start longing and long lining if I can find someone to teach me how to do it correctly. I've watched videos and read books on how to do it, but I am afraid I would do it incorrectly and confuse him. Ok I could go on forever I am so excited but I've already almost written a book so I will stop. :-D


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## ohmyitschelle (Aug 23, 2008)

The thing I've been taught to do with sore muscles is not just let them sit in the paddock... they're only going to get sore again once the work is back on... my mare was sore through her shoulder muscles, and so a friend of mine galloped it out of her... not thrashed her or anything, but really just let her stretch herself, get those muscles nice and loose and free, and the rider didn't interfere with her. I've been taught by my chiropractor, is the worse thing we do when we see our horses are sore somewhere, ie in behind, etc we just let them sit in the paddock until we get them to a professional. Or we have the impression that a few weeks out of work and the horse will come right... sometimes, actually most of the time, the horse will look great out in the paddock, but the same problem will occur under saddle. 
I'd stretch this horse. I'd let it settle in and then I'd get someone capable (yourself or a friend) to really let this horse stretch. I would still get someone to look at him, depending on what your vet says upon the PRE. But letting him sit in a paddock may look like it's helped, but you'll find the muscles will still get sore when you ride him.
I hope I'm some help.
x


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## eventer89 (Apr 14, 2009)

That was very helpful! Thanks!! I guess it makes sense when you put it that way. That makes me feel better, because I want to ride him!! LOL!! I am SOOOOO excited!


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## eventer89 (Apr 14, 2009)

Do you mean stretching, like carrot stretches, or stretching, like galloping him out? I feel like galloping him will make him more sore, because he is not in shape at all.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Actually it is better to keep using them. Not necessarily run it out of them but just keep riding them and let the soreness work itself out. Have you ever worked out until you were sore and then sat around doing nothing until the soreness went away before you worked out again? You would get sore every time. However, if you continued to work out through the sore muscles, the were not sore as long and you'd have no recurring soreness problems.

Congrats on your new family member. I bet you will have a blast with him.


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## eventer89 (Apr 14, 2009)

I am so glad I found this site. You girls are all so helpful. When you put it that way, it seems almost common sense.  

Any advice on starting him in an excercise routine as far as doing what for how long and how often?


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

:/ I really can't help you there. When I ride, it is either because there is some work to be done (which usually entails being in the saddle for hours) or I want to pleasure ride (anything from a few minutes to several hours).  Sorry I am not more helpful there.


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## ohmyitschelle (Aug 23, 2008)

You don't neccessarily need to gallop him... but a good canter stretch could help. Even a big trot. It's all about the straight lines, and using a big space to really allow them to use themselves. 
I'd do this exercise once a week for the next couple of weeks... just take him off to a big paddock, or arena and then ask for him to stretch... our horses have so many gears, and you want to ask this boy to move FORWARD. If he's forward, he has to use himself... let him stretch... so just have a loose rein, let him seek the level where he wants to hold his head and ask him to move out... don't do it for long periods, just for about fifteen - twenty minutes... a few of those kind of sessions and you'll see the difference in him.
As for an exercise plan... I don't know if mine would help as I normally tailor mine towards each horse. With Evo he's a long horse and so it takes longer for him to warm up. We do fifteen mins of a nice, relaxed but active walk on a loose rein on both reins and then go into the trot... with him I have specific needs due to my bad knee and his massive trot, so as much as I'd like to have him in the loose rein in the trot too, we do our trot routine backwards for me (with a contact first, and then loose rein as I find myself) - but let me assure you, he's been trained for that and understands it etc.
With Honey who is pretty uncomplicated, I do the loose rein in both walk and trot, let her have a small canter on both reins, and then settle into whatever I want to achieve... with her she's just learnt what contact means... so we do a lot of walk and trot, working on accepting the contact, working off my leg and keeping engaged from behind... And both my horses don't do lots of circles... we do lots of straight lines, serpentines, figure of 8s and some circle work, but mainly I use the fencing of my paddock to dictate the shape of my workout - I live in NZ, so I don't have my own arena to use, just my paddock.

What I'd do with your boy is incorporate the loose rein work... walking is especially important for sore horses... so many people overestimate the walk... you can ask for so much in the walk... play with the speed of it, do serpentines/figure of 8s in it... etc... walking may be boring unlike cantering but its so much better to have a good foundation in walk... I've been taught that a good walk leads to a good trot, and a good trot leads to a good canter. I've been blessed with two forward walking horses, so its more about balance etc with my two. I don't remember exactly what you planned to do with the horse, I think it was eventing? But I can't remember what level you're at... so please excuse if I've babbled about stuff you're very aware of haha! Once you know what stage you're at, you can move onto engagement, and getting that back end going again... if you want me to explain anymore or want more info, I'm sure I can help! I'm currently stuck at home with a broken leg, so it's not like I'm lacking in time hahah! 
Good luck!
x


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## eventer89 (Apr 14, 2009)

I am not sure which level we will be competing at, but it's gonna be a while before we do compete. I will probably stick to schooling shows for this year. I have had horses all my life, but it's been years since I had a lesson. I am going to start taking a lesson a month for now, since that's all I can afford, but hey - it's better than nothing and it gives me lots of time to practice what I learned in my monthly lesson, lol.

Sorry about your broken leg! I'd go stir crazy!


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## ohmyitschelle (Aug 23, 2008)

eventer89 said:


> I am not sure which level we will be competing at, but it's gonna be a while before we do compete. I will probably stick to schooling shows for this year. I have had horses all my life, but it's been years since I had a lesson. I am going to start taking a lesson a month for now, since that's all I can afford, but hey - it's better than nothing and it gives me lots of time to practice what I learned in my monthly lesson, lol.
> 
> Sorry about your broken leg! I'd go stir crazy!


Yeah, it MAJORLY sucks being stuck at home and not being able to see my horses.
Yeah I don't get lessons much either... but when I do, I really learn from them. I guess I'm lucky that way. I'm really driven, I have a lot against me... I'm a heavy rider with poor balance and a knee injury (now a broken leg too!) and want to compete in dressage one day... and do a bit of showing... was supposed to debut with my youngster Honey this weekend at her first schooling show. Ah well. But I try really hard. I know what I want, and even though I have limitations, I try to work as hard as I can, and I do see results. So when I have a lesson, I just remember how it felt and what I'm told and keep trying. There's no rush to get out and about!!
Good luck!!
x


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