# Sudden Aggression



## EmilyRosie (Oct 8, 2010)

Hello,
So my pony Rosie has always had a bit of spunk, but about 15 minutes ago, really became extremely aggressive. I went outside to check on her because she gets cold easy and it is cold and rainy today. She was shivering and walked right over to me and let me scratch her as normal. I put her halter on and brought her in her stall to towel dry, blanket and then release. Unexpectedly, when I went to towel dry her she turned her butt at me (I got out of the way) and kicked out. She has also tried biting me (not nibbling, but a full on aggressive bite). This horse does NOT act aggressively. I have been doing more work with her lately, but she is just not an aggressive horse. I gave her hay and left her in her stall and she is pawing, and making a nickering noise every time I leave her stall, but I have a puppy inside and I had to come back inside. I have her in her stall right now. Sometimes as she is eating she makes a grunting sound and whips her head up. I'm very concerned. Any suggestions? The shivering has stopped by the way.
Thanks.


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## Nitefeatherz (Jan 23, 2012)

EmilyRosie said:


> Hello,
> She has also tried biting me (not nibbling, but a full on aggressive bite). This horse does NOT act aggressively.



I am confused...has she tried biting you in the past? If so- that is aggressive behavior- or are you saying she tried biting you just now when you brought her in and that is the first biting and kicking incident you've had with her?


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## EmilyRosie (Oct 8, 2010)

Nitefeatherz said:


> I am confused...has she tried biting you in the past? If so- that is aggressive behavior- or are you saying she tried biting you just now when you brought her in and that is the first biting and kicking incident you've had with her?


She pushes her limits and tests, but never runs at me with her teeth ready to bite. This is the first bad incident I've had with her.


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## December (Feb 18, 2012)

I'm not entirely sure why she might have done that is seems odd...uhm did you touch her at all once she was in her stall maybe since you've been working with her alot more shes sore...but the way you describe her acting in the stall makes me think shes a bit anxious, skiddish and nervous...maybe something spooked her? but that wouldn't necessarily explain the sudden aggression I'm sorry I couldn't have been more of a help those are just some ideas, but if your very worried that something might be wrong I would call a vet (Can never be too safe =])


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

She's in pain, she's in season & feeling crabby & perhaps in pain, you've never pushed her boundaries until recently & she's telling you where to get off. They're some possibilities. Of course, you'll want to rule out/treat the possible pain first & foremost.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

If she was so cold that her temperature became less than normal it could have changed her mentation. It does with people. See how she is when she's warmed up again.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

If she is always testing you, that is because you are not firmly established as leader here.

Otherwise there would be no testing/trying, your very body language would tell her it was a no go.

The shivering, could be due to wind, as could attitude. Could also be she hears wind moving an unstable tree? Or something that you might not have noticed. 

But the behaviors must not be allowed, more consistent handling, and if you are babier or heavy praiser or sweet talker, quit it. Horses don't respond well to that.

But if she is always testing? Then this is not sudden aggression as much as natural progression to her attitude over other things. This time, she just decided to up the ante, and call your bluff.


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

Sounds like a leardership problem to me in heat or not in pain or not doesnt give them the right to lash out with teeth and hind feet. Simple fact is she has no respect for you i own a mare who gets crampy when in heat. She wouldnt dare try to bite or kick me but then again iam the herd boss of us two. Theres nothing wrong other then you arent her herd leader and she knows it. So you need to brush up on how to be a leader or your going to get hurt.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

has she had a rabies shot? I thought this was normal, but recently found out that since you cant mail order rabies like you do the others lots of horses dont get them.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

That sounds like a reaction to physical causes, not so much a behavior issue due to lack of leadership. That sort of problem usually creeps on little by little, not an abrupt change. It could be her season, but this cannto be the first time she's been in season since you have had her, no?


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Joe4d said:


> has she had a rabies shot? I thought this was normal, but recently found out that since you cant mail order rabies like you do the others lots of horses dont get them.


Some vets don't even like to give them. I asked my vet when he was out doing shots in the past and he said my guys didn't need them. And we live in the woods. I don't know why it isn't a good idea as there are cases of rabies in my state.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Maybe she didn't want to be blanketed. Ponies get notoriously hot under blankets and uncomfortable. When it's windy, horses get nervous as they are bombarded with sounds and can't tell which ones they should be concerned with. Put one in a cage and it can become a nervous wreck as there's no escape. We see them as safe, they see a stall as a trap.


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## smokeslastspot (Jan 11, 2012)

trailhorserider said:


> Some vets don't even like to give them. I asked my vet when he was out doing shots in the past and he said my guys didn't need them. And we live in the woods. I don't know why it isn't a good idea as there are cases of rabies in my state.



This is not my personal view, but a lot of folks (around here anyway) don't vaccinate for it because the likelihood of a horse actually getting it are slim and there is the (small) chance of a reaction to the vaccine. To a lot of people its just spending $ on something that is probably not necessary. I work at the state veterinary diagnostic lab and I have only seen a few cases of suspected rabies actually be confirmed as that. Most of the time it is some other virus at work.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> That sounds like a reaction to physical causes, not so much a behavior issue due to lack of leadership. That sort of problem usually creeps on little by little, not an abrupt change. It could be her season, but this cannto be the first time she's been in season since you have had her, no?


I tend to agree with this sounds more like a physical thing.Weather changes very often cause heightened behavior in horses:wink:.With her coming in from cold & you rubbing her down you may have hit a sensitive spot she lashed out.Sounds like she continued to be a bit hyped up in her stall not settling down quiet to eat.Need to watch her then assess her when she is in a calmer quiet state.:-| Watch her non verbal cues for hints of dominance/aggression vs being uptight/nervous. If she shows more the latter then I would suspect it is something more physical,she is hurting somewhere...:-(


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Does she have belly sounds? Has she pooped? By any chance were you rubbing her belly when she did this? I am concerned that this is pain, and personally, I would keep a really close eye on her. I wouldn't tun her out again until I saw poop, and could see what the consistency is, etc. to make shire she isn't colicky. I would probably also make sure she is peeing, just in case it is kidney related. All of those things working, I personally would go over her with a discerning eye to see if there are any obvious ouchy spots. Sure sounds like pain to me.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

I'd get another vet, 
Horse gets west nile ? horsey gets sick.
Horse gets rabies and nips you YOU DIE . Ummm I think I'll be getting a rabies shot.
Interestingly enough the symptoms the OP described are classic rabies although probably something different,yet no one seems concerned.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

^^ Or you go through a series of extremely painful shots. Rabies is a very preventable disease and should be vaccinated against. More than likely you won't even notice the wound where your horse caught it and if it is suspected the only treatment is death.

I don't think it's likely that your pony has rabies though, more than likely it is a combination of several of the other's suggestions. I would keep on eye on her behavior to make sure she is pooping/eating/drinking and not trying to roll/bite at her sides/etc. It could be pain and it could be a gradual onset of an attitude problem caused by improper handling. No way to tell except for observation and a possible vet visit if she continues to act strangely.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Joe4d said:


> I'd get another vet,
> Horse gets west nile ? horsey gets sick.
> Horse gets rabies and nips you YOU DIE . Ummm I think I'll be getting a rabies shot.
> Interestingly enough the symptoms the OP described are classic rabies although probably something different,yet no one seems concerned.



The signs & symptoms can point to a vast number of things,most much more common that rabies,hence nobody jumping on your rabies diagnosis.:?


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

The horse is displaying symptoms of something that could potentially be fatal to the owner and anyone else. Although the likely hood is less, the severity is greater especially due to lack of vaccination
How many of us ran out and got rabies treatment shots the last time a horse bit you? or you had your hand in his mouth with a scratch on your hand ? Probably none of us. wants rabies symptoms appear it is 100 % fatal for people and horses.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Joe4d said:


> The horse is displaying symptoms of something that could potentially be fatal to the owner and anyone else. Although the likely hood is less, the severity is greater especially due to lack of vaccination
> How many of us ran out and got rabies treatment shots the last time a horse bit you? or you had your hand in his mouth with a scratch on your hand ? Probably none of us. wants rabies symptoms appear it is 100 % fatal for people and horses.


Seriously Joe, with all due respect. Please. The likelihood is so minimal. *The OP has NOT said her horse is unvaccinated,* and frankly after over 40 yrs in horses it never even occurred to me that one would not be, unless it was a neglect case or wild. THe other thing to think about is this. Ok. Say that IS something that needs to be considered at the top of the list, rather than the bottom, since there are so many other things it could be.....WHat would you propose? THe ONLY way, as far as I know, to diagnose Rabies is brain biopsy, and there is only one way to do that. And while waiting for the results, anyone exposed would have to go thru inoculation. Are you SERIOUSLY thinking that it is necessary in this case to kill the horse, perform the necessary tests and subject the owner to the shots? I have not down the search, but can be pretty certain that the actual incidence of rabies in horses is minuscule. Mainly because they are prey animals. 

IMO time is better spent without the sky falling, thinking of realistic things that may be causing this. There is also NO need to unnecessarily upset this owner with a "chicken little" mentality. It serves no constructive purpose. If you would like to discuss whether or not to get rabies vaccinations-that is a separate subject, and you certainly can start a thread. THis may very well be a minor you are needlessly upsetting.:evil:


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

I agree with franknbean very unlikely the horse has rabies theres something going on with her but its not rabies. I dont vaccinate for rabies and iv had horses for over thirty years NEVER have had a horse get it.


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## Duren (Oct 25, 2011)

Not too mention "Cujo" rabies is really rare as well. Most infected animals are more prone to "dumb rabies" and hydrophobia as apposed to just sudden aggression.

I do agree with everyone that says she seems painful though. My first thought was a possible colic when you said she is nipping and was pawing and making odd noises. 

Keep up updated. Hopefully shes fine and just having a bad day!


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Duren said:


> Not too mention "Cujo" rabies is really rare as well. Most infected animals are more prone to "dumb rabies" and hydrophobia as apposed to just sudden aggression.
> 
> I do agree with everyone that says she seems painful though. My first thought was a possible colic when you said she is nipping and was pawing and making odd noises.
> 
> Keep up updated. Hopefully shes fine and just having a bad day!



Agree totally. I think someone watches too many movies.


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## herdbound (Aug 30, 2010)

My first response...it's a pony that explains everything  I think that pain is the culprit here, the shivering can be a temp too or a sign of stress do to pain. Anytime a horse acts askew all of a sudden pain is often the problem. Have you seen her role lately on the ground...watch and see if she rolls but when she gets up she doesn't do the normal "shake like a wet dog" thing...she could be in the early stages of colic...I would keep a close eye on her and see if the vet can come take a look ASAP


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

spirit88 said:


> Sounds like a leardership problem to me in heat or not in pain or not doesnt give them the right to lash out with teeth and hind feet. Simple fact is she has no respect for you


I agree there's likely a relationship issue, tho if it's pain related I think there can sometimes be an unthinking reactivity that can happen regardless of relationships. But my feeling is that sort of attitude is showing no respect or understanding to the horse - perhaps that's not how you meant it tho. 

Horses are sentient beings too, not put on this earth to be innately submissive & obedient to our every beck & whim. They *always* give subtle signs/warnings before that sort of behaviour & if for whatever reason(conscious or not) humans ignore that, they have to find other ways to be more effective at getting their feelings across. Whether you see it as a 'right', how else can an animal like a horse 'shout' but with teeth & hooves?? 

Of course, in a good relationship, the human & horse 'respect' & understand *eachother* enough that it doesn't come to that. IMO I don't believe it should be a dictatorial relationship & if my horse 'aggressed' at me like that I'd be wondering what *I'd* missed & done wrong. Perhaps that's what you meant too, but talking about 'rights' regardless of circumstances sounds like you feel the horse is the one that's 'wrong' & deserving of punishment for his 'crime'.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

I find it hard to believe that a leadership issue turns this quickly. But JMHO.


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## Duren (Oct 25, 2011)

May I just say that I am totally embarrassed by my grammar mistakes in my post. To vs too is only my biggest pet peeve ever!


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