# Is my Buddy a "wild bay"?



## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Yup, he is pretty much text book wild bay.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Agreed, definitely a wild bay.


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## riddlemethis (Jun 3, 2008)

Yep wild bay! Do you know who his sire and dam are? Or at least their colors?


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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

Chiilaa, is it possible for a wild bay to be brown? Since some browns appear to look like bays. Or if they are wild bay is it impossible for them to be brown? I'm simpler terms can there be a wild brown? LOL Clear as mud?

EDIT
It just made me think of it since his muzzle looks lighter. Can a brown "hide" as a wild bay?


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## mamakim159 (Aug 2, 2013)

riddlemethis said:


> Yep wild bay! Do you know who his sire and dam are? Or at least their colors?


I wish I did!! Unfortunately he is as grade as grade can get. I got him almost 2 years ago and he's somewhere in his 20's so I think it will remain a mystery! Do you know what causes the "wild" variation of bay?


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

riddlemethis said:


> Yep wild bay! Do you know who his sire and dam are? Or at least their colors?


What sorts of parentage can a wild bay come from? My boy seems to be a pretty good example of a wild bay with the back legs looking just about the same as Buddy and the front legs having a little less black in them. His dam is a palomino while his sire is either a grulla or a buckskin (registered as grulla, looks buckskin in the pictures I have of him). Of course, AQHA has my clearly bay horse registered as a chestnut :?


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

I would have guessed brown with the first few pics showing a honey colored muzzle and the 4th pic showing the black extending up over the front knees.

I do wonder if the agouti genes interact more than the simple dominance we think of, though. I've seen at least a couple A/At horses that look like they have a hint of brown even though it should be recessive to classic bay. On that line of thought I wonder if OP's horse is actually At/A+... too bad there's still no test for wild bay.

I don't think he has any pangare- that presents as a whitish/greyish muzzle instead of the warmer honey/cinnamon color he has.


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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

verona1016 said:


> I would have guessed brown with the first few pics showing a honey colored muzzle and the 4th pic showing the black extending up over the front knees.
> 
> I do wonder if the agouti genes interact more than the simple dominance we think of, though. I've seen at least a couple A/At horses that look like they have a hint of brown even though it should be recessive to classic bay. On that line of thought I wonder if OP's horse is actually At/A+... too bad there's still no test for wild bay.
> 
> I don't think he has any pangare- that presents as a whitish/greyish muzzle instead of the warmer honey/cinnamon color he has.


If I understood that right...I think I had the same question. The way I'm wording it though is can a horse _only _be wild bay or _only_ brown? Or is there a possibility of a "wild brown"?


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

I have been toying with the idea that agouti is less clear cut with dominance and displaying than currently thought. However, I lack the funds and time to test every suspicious looking horse to prove my theory.


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## riddlemethis (Jun 3, 2008)

Chiilaa said:


> I have been toying with the idea that agouti is less clear cut with dominance and displaying than currently thought. However, I lack the funds and time to test every suspicious looking horse to prove my theory.


It would make a lot of sense IMO.

I mean we already know the two Ats work together. AtAt is lighter than Ata. I could totally see AAt A+At A+A Aa A+a working together in a similar manner.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

I have seen a few that have tested AAt that have the same "brown" soft points. That was what started me thinking about it. My theory is that they share dominance rather than have total dominance - closer to the "pink" roan cows.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

Hmmm...this would be like the snow-series in the bengal cat. You have Lynx Point and Sepia, but when they inherit one gene of each they get Mink.


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