# I get to build my semi dream barn! But need some help!



## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

I am going on one of the best journeys of my life, but it's going to be a long journey! Let me explain fully- this will be a long lost so you can skip to the last paragraph if you want to get straight to the questions I have. 

We are moving to a new place next month that has a beautiful barn, a chicken coop and plenty of land. We went last week to check out the barn and got the shock of our lives. The inside of the barn is completely ruined, there is 3-5 feet of packed horse manure covering the entire floor of the barn and there is literally nothing left inside. There are pieces of board everywhere, it's a wreck. But where others see a barn worthy of tearing down, my mother and I saw potential. 

So today we woke up bright and early, grabbed a couple pitch forks and a shovel and got to work. Our plan is to clean the entire barn out, pour a cement floor with a wooden subfloor, and completely rebuild the interior to our hearts content. It will be a lot of work, sweat and sawdust, not to mention LOTS of poop, but we can do it, and it is SO worth it. 

I'm eighteen and we've been struggling with finances my entire life, owning five horses we've been barely making it by and recieving the crappy end of the stick with everything. Everything we do is put into the horses, even if it means coping with a run down barn, second hand brushes and half a** fencing. 

I've dreamed of owning a fancy saddle, but have always settled for second hand. Dreamed of a beautiful barn with a wash rack and box stalls, but have settled with chewed down standing stalls and washing outside tied to a tree. This is finally our chance to make it. I am SO grateful for this chance, and I want to share the experience with you guys. So this is a journal of sorts. 

DAY ONE - the clean up process. 
Today we assessed the damage and worked on removing some manure. 6 hours of labour and we had cleared a 3' by 5' section down to the floor. Turns out, the floor has rotted away. We made some new friends whom we rudely evicted from their poop home in the process, 5 baby shrews. After relocating them we turned to the tack lying around the floor and throughout the barn, cleaned some of it up and organized it. We're going back at it again tomorrow. 

We went home and planned how we will rebuild. The structure itself is solid and fairly new, so we're completely gutting the inside. We plan to build a tack room, have three box stalls, and five standing stalls, along with an isle and an outdoor wash rack. Each box stall will have a peek out window with a flap, and the standing stalls will be front feed with an isle at the head of the horses. We priced the lumber today. 

Day two will bring some more hard work, but it's almost like treasure hunting. We found a bucket load of good brushes, a few nice halters, lots of bits and some very fine ropes today. 

I do need a few opinions on some things. 
What would you say is the minimum width of an isle for cross ties?
We're doing 10x10 box stalls to save space, that sounds right, right? 
How wide do you think our standing stalls should be? 
This is the first time I've had an isle or box stalls, so this is new to me! 
Also we are thinking open concept stalls with bars to minimize wood chewing, are bars a good route to take? I've seen some sort of mesh as well. Thanks guys! I can't wait to start building. I'll upload a floor plan in a little bit.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

WhattaTroublemaker said:


> What would you say is the minimum width of an isle for cross ties?
> *8' minimum but do it right and get 12' if your barn width allows. This lets you open a swinging stall door or walk two horses past each other, drive the farm tractor through pulling the manure spreader or cart...Have a horse on cross ties and another can safely pass...*
> We're doing 10x10 box stalls to save space, that sounds right, right?
> *Only if you have smaller horses. 10'x12' is better and 12'x12' are great. Some today say you need bigger and that is true if you have HUGE drafty sized horses. My horse was at a show in temporary stalling, 10'x10'...not large enough for him to stretch and pee {gelding} comfortably nor lie down to rest. My horse is a large boned 15.2 quarter horse...he needed that extra space of a 10'x12' stall.*
> ...


*To save your backs, some time and get it done....*
A suggestion of using a tractor with a bucket loader to clean and scrape that mucky floor if the barn will allow you to gain entry with a machine.
You don't_ need_ to get to the rotting base, but that bucket can and will pick it up a whole lot easier than you and your mom can...
If you don't own a tractor some Home Depots and rental places rent them for days/weeks use...

Now for some ideas on barn layouts cruise some barn builders and "dream" away over their designs you might find helpful...here are some I found useful when I built my barn.
_https://www.horizonstructures.com/category/horse-barns/horse-barns
https://mortonbuildings.com/projects/stable
39 Free Horse Barn Plans
__ Horse Barn Plans, Blueprints
Horse Barn Plans - Free Building Plans

__*Enjoy and have fun....*_
_ :runninghorse2:....
jmo...
_


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## Jan1975 (Sep 7, 2015)

This sounds very exciting! I bet your barn will mean so much more to you w/ so much of your own sweat equity in it.


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## 6gun Kid (Feb 26, 2013)

My one question is why lay a wooden sub floor? Create a form, level it, and pour cement.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Glad to hear you've found a place you can build up to what you'd like! It's amazing what hard work will do.

To answer your questions, my preference for box stalls is 12 x 10. That's what I built and I'm very happy with them. I would find 10 x 10 small, unless you have very small horses (both my horses are under 15hh, but I like them to have room to turn around and lay down comfortably). My stalls have dutch doors on the inside and outside. You may not be able to do that since the building is already there, but those dutch doors leading outside are awesome. I leave them open so the horses come in and out whenever they like. I find they like to go in their stalls for naps a couple of times a day, probably to get away from the flies. It also means that in the event of a fire, the horses can be let out from the outside of the building so no one has to go inside a burning barn to save them. And it means that if my daughter has to let them out because I'm away, she just has to open the doors and they walk right out into the paddock. 

I also have a pretty wide aisle - 12 feet. You could probably make do with 10 or even 8, but no less. I actually expanded my aisle space from so the horses have lots of room to turn around and I still have space to hang things like blankets along the sides of the aisles. Also, I can drive a truck right through my barn, or an ATV with trailer. 

Are you building a tack/feed room? I did, had it fully enclosed and LOVE it. It's nice to have a clean place to hang stuff. Having a door means the dust from hay and shavings doesn't get in there so the tack stays much cleaner. I also have a feed bin there (a small, chest-style freezer I got free on Kijiji), a mini-fridge, shelves for all my first aid/washing stuff and a bench. 

Oh, and I have a full cement foundation. I put rubber mats down, but would like a sub-floor in the stalls before winter. Right now, the horses are out most of the day so I figure it's not too big a deal.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

I built my barn with 6 box stalls and 9 standing stalls. The standing stalls are 4feet wide, because everything on my barn (framing posts , etc) was done in multipls of 12. Except for the aisle, which is 16 feet, so that allows me to pass with a carriage.

We also saved the antique tobacco barn on our place, which had zEro supports holding up the rafters !! We used trusses, which allowed us to increase the roof pitch. 

Sounds to me like a wonderful project. Eat plenty of protein for breakfast!!


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

My imaginary barn has 12x12 stalls, a 12' aisle, an enclosed tackroom, rodent-proof feed room, concrete floors with drains throughout, dutch doors, hot shower stall, pass-through feeders and very well lit and airy. Just for starters.

My existing 'barn' which is just a 12 x 24 prefab steel pipe shelter with 2 x 6 boarding to halfway up, and divided in the middle, is not too big for two horses on a stormy day, and they have a free access to half acre dry lot. 

I would skip the standing stalls. And make everything as roomy as possible. Remember that horses evolved to walk slowly, grazing on low-quality grass, for about 20 hours a day. The more their domesticated life imitates that, the healthier they will be.


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## Tazmanian Devil (Oct 11, 2008)

WhattaTroublemaker said:


> Our plan is to clean the entire barn out, pour a cement floor with a wooden subfloor,


No reason for a wood floor or subfloor. That's probably a bad idea in a barn. Cement floor is fine. Use mats on top in the stalls. Take a look at some other recent threads in this section where stall flooring options are discussed.



> I do need a few opinions on some things.
> What would you say is the minimum width of an isle for cross ties?
> We're doing 10x10 box stalls to save space, that sounds right, right?
> How wide do you think our standing stalls should be?
> ...


Aisle width: You can get away with 8-10ft. 12-14ft is better. Wider is better if you have the space. At the very least you want to be able to drive a small tractor through the aisle (whether you currently have one or not).

10x10 is fine if that's all you have room for. 10x12 is better (IMO) if you can.

Mesh or bars on the top section of wall is good. Increase visibility and air circulation. You do want solid wood for the bottom 4ft of any walls/doors. Stacked 2x6 (rough cut) is an inexpensive option.

For exposed wood areas like doors, you can get metal flashing to cover the wood and discourage chewing.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

horselovinguy said:


> *To save your backs, some time and get it done....*
> A suggestion of using a tractor with a bucket loader to clean and scrape that mucky floor if the barn will allow you to gain entry with a machine.
> You don't_ need_ to get to the rotting base, but that bucket can and will pick it up a whole lot easier than you and your mom can...
> If you don't own a tractor some Home Depots and rental places rent them for days/weeks use...
> ...


Thank you so much! Unfortunately the barn is small and only has two standard size doors, like a little wider than a regular human door. We are putting standing stalls due to space requirements, and they work. The barn is roughly 30x30. My mothers boyfriend wants standing stalls for his pull horses, and I like standing stalls. We're putting box stalls mostly for utility purposes, like goat or calf holding and for my boy because he's spoiled.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

6gun Kid said:


> My one question is why lay a wooden sub floor? Create a form, level it, and pour cement.


We're laying wood over the cement, because we don't like to put our horses on concrete.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Acadianartist said:


> Glad to hear you've found a place you can build up to what you'd like! It's amazing what hard work will do.
> 
> To answer your questions, my preference for box stalls is 12 x 10. That's what I built and I'm very happy with them. I would find 10 x 10 small, unless you have very small horses (both my horses are under 15hh, but I like them to have room to turn around and lay down comfortably). My stalls have dutch doors on the inside and outside. You may not be able to do that since the building is already there, but those dutch doors leading outside are awesome. I leave them open so the horses come in and out whenever they like. I find they like to go in their stalls for naps a couple of times a day, probably to get away from the flies. It also means that in the event of a fire, the horses can be let out from the outside of the building so no one has to go inside a burning barn to save them. And it means that if my daughter has to let them out because I'm away, she just has to open the doors and they walk right out into the paddock.
> 
> ...


Thanks!! We're looking for bare minimum measurements due to space restrictions, and we're putting in a mini barn for a tack/feed room because we don't have the space but I can't wait to have a tack room!


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Okay! Final plans being drawn up now! The barn will include:
Two 10x11 box stalls with sliding doors
Four 5x8 straight stalls 
A 6x10 "box stall" with a partition for livestock
And an 8 foot isle down the centre!


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

WhattaTroublemaker said:


> We're laying wood over the cement, because we don't like to put our horses on concrete.


Why put concrete at all? I would put concrete in aisle and area for tacking and leave stalls dirt. Saves lots of money and better for the horses.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

churumbeque said:


> Why put concrete at all? I would put concrete in aisle and area for tacking and leave stalls dirt. Saves lots of money and better for the horses.


The concrete is going in to cover what used to be the floor. There's rotted boards that need tearing up and nails everywhere, there's no way we can get them all and the bottom cleaned to just dirt. Plus everyone I know around here has problems with dirt floors, from frost, to cleaning issues, mud, etc. We're putting a wooden floor over the concrete plus mats so it should be fine.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

WhattaTroublemaker said:


> We're putting a wooden floor over the concrete plus mats so it should be fine.



Wood rots as you are seeing and dealing with...why would you put in something that needs replacing in a few years from urine rot...
The wood absorbs the urine smell and reeks your barn over time...
_Skip the wood._
Save the money to spend elsewhere and just do the concrete with mats on top.
You'll be fine with that...
Don't forget some shavings and you will have a comfy home for the horses...:wink:
:runninghorse2:.....


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Dirt floors soak up urine, the horses dig holes in them, and they are, well, dirty. 

What I have is drain rock, then base rock, machine-tamped, then mats, then shavings.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

This is just slightly off-topic but I'm using wood pellets instead of shavings and find them MUCH easier! I just pick out the manure, shovel out the wet spots and I'm done! I add half a bag every 2-3 days. With shavings, I found I pretty much had to take everything out every day. It was a lot more waste.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

I think 5 feet is too wide for standing stalls. You want to discourage trying to turn around. I have 2 mares that lay down in the 4 foot standing stalls. 

4feet was what my barn builder used for him giant Belgian work horses! 

And having lived in a barn with a 10 foot aisle, 8 feet is going to be quite uncomfortable. I would give up stall space to change that.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Acadianartist said:


> This is just slightly off-topic but I'm using wood pellets instead of shavings and find them MUCH easier! I just pick out the manure, shovel out the wet spots and I'm done! I add half a bag every 2-3 days. With shavings, I found I pretty much had to take everything out every day. It was a lot more waste.


Only wood pellets specifically used for stalls/bedding I used had to be moistened to make them expand first or it was like a horse standing on marbles in the stall.
I found them dusty too if they were not moistened when put down and the horse stepped on them, breaking them.:icon_rolleyes:

If you are using shavings that much and basically stripping every day then you either have a _very_ piggy horse or need to learn a better cleaning method.
I had show horses stalled 22 hours a day where I worked and I added a total of 2 bags of shavings a week. 
These were established stalls_ with deep bedding..._
Something is not quite right that you go through that much in shavings or bedding per day. :sad:
:runninghorse2:...


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

horselovinguy said:


> Only wood pellets specifically used for stalls/bedding I used had to be moistened to make them expand first or it was like a horse standing on marbles in the stall.
> I found them dusty too if they were not moistened when put down and the horse stepped on them, breaking them.:icon_rolleyes:
> 
> If you are using shavings that much and basically stripping every day then you either have a _very_ piggy horse or need to learn a better cleaning method.
> ...


Yes, I moisten my pellets and they feel nice and soft. No dust. I just didn't find that shavings absorbed the urine as much, which resulted in a lot larger wet areas. With the pellets, the urine soaks into them and forms a clump. It's a much smaller area to pick up. 

The shavings were at my boarding barn and they didn't use very much. It might have been better with more shavings, but I also disliked these shavings tremendously because when they get wet, they make this orangy, sappy liquid which made a mess on my horse's coat every single day. I suppose I could look for better shavings, but I'm totally hooked on the pellets. And so is everyone I've talked to who tried them. At a local boarding stable, the BO told me her staff let her know that if she ever went back to shavings, they would quit. They LOVED the pellets so much more. I'm sure there are a lot of variations within pellet types and shaving types, but I live in an area not known for selection and the OP lives in the same area as me and therefore, has the same options. I just thought she might like to consider pellets.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

greentree said:


> I think 5 feet is too wide for standing stalls. You want to discourage trying to turn around. I have 2 mares that lay down in the 4 foot standing stalls.
> 
> 4feet was what my barn builder used for him giant Belgian work horses!
> 
> And having lived in a barn with a 10 foot aisle, 8 feet is going to be quite uncomfortable. I would give up stall space to change that.


Thanks for the input! We will do 4 foot straight stalls then, but we're doing 5 foot for the pulling team as Andrew likes space to feed, etc. We did have 5 footers in my old barn and none of our horses have ever turned around, but I can see the possibility. Also, we were thinking an eight foot isle because we absolutely don't want a horse to turn around in the cross ties, and there's no need to turn around in the isle with doors on both ends. The isle will also be C shaped, I'm going to upload the plans!


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

That sounds so great! I cannot wait to see it!


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Here's a rough version of the final plans! We priced the lumber today, and are using heavy guage mesh for the stalls.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Here's some snaps from yesterday! This whole is 3 1/2 feet deep,


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

How exciting!
Can't wait to see progress <3


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)




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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)




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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)




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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

That is a enormous task for you to do by hand....

You know those renovations you're doing?
I would add one more renovation and take out a section of wall intentionally big enough to drive a tractor or bobcat into and dig that out....
After the job is done you can either have a large enough doorway now you could enter it with a machine if needed or close it up again with fresh strong lumber and continue the project.
I wouldn't be buying any lumber and putting it in their till the cleaning out job is completed...not even to store it!!
_I feel bad for you.... that is beyond disgusting that someone allowed their animals, don't care what kind of animals...but their animals to live in such filth.:x_
:runninghorse2:...


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

horselovinguy said:


> That is a enormous task for you to do by hand....
> 
> You know those renovations you're doing?
> I would add one more renovation and take out a section of wall intentionally big enough to drive a tractor or bobcat into and dig that out....
> ...


We have one third done and it only took us two days, so in a week we should have the entire thing finished. We priced concrete and it's WAY too expensive so we're putting a wood floor. They want 3000$ for a 2 inch thick layer! Honestly it's a great workout, and great bonding time for my mother and I, we're actually starting to enjoy the work! We're finding lots of treasures too! We found 10 saveable halters, four hoof picks, a ton of brushes, harness parts, collars, fly spray, snaps, a box of nails, a radio -that still WORKS- and a boat load of hinges.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Also, we're not picking up the lumber until the barn is cleaned out, we have one month until we move in with the horses, goats and turkeys so we have to be on the ball!


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Whatta, I am with you! I prefer to just get on there and dig! 

I think the plan looks beyond awesome!


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

greentree said:


> Whatta, I am with you! I prefer to just get on there and dig!
> 
> I think the plan looks beyond awesome!


Thanks! We put a lot of thought into how the barn will go, in terms of space saving and what we wanted. The situation is sad but I can't put any blame on the previous owner, we know more about the situation know and came to an understanding, it was a bad time, a bad place and bad health paired with good intentions. 

Anywho, I can't wait to keep everyone updated! We were saying how we should start a sh** shovelling business and we'd be rich :lol:


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## Kyleen Drake (May 26, 2016)

I'm doing the same, and always asking for tips.. So far this is what I have come up with for my dream barn..


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## Kyleen Drake (May 26, 2016)

I would be tempted to rent a cat (one of those really small bull dozers) for a day, get that outta there. They're not expensive to rent. You're doing a great job, really excited to see how it goes.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Kyleen Drake said:


> I would be tempted to rent a cat (one of those really small bull dozers) for a day, get that outta there. They're not expensive to rent. You're doing a great job, really excited to see how it goes.


We were tempted to do that but a cat won't fit through the doors :/ they're standard sized doors with a step up entrance. Oh well, time to get my callouses back!


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

WhattaTroublemaker said:


> Here's some snaps from yesterday! This whole is 3 1/2 feet deep,


 Looks like a good weight loss muscle builder plan.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

churumbeque said:


> Looks like a good weight loss muscle builder plan.


That's what I said!! But once you get into it, you get _into_ it. I weighed myself when we started and I'll be weighing myself again when we're done :lol:


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Our little shrew friends-


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

on the straight stalls, I have never seen them here, so how does a horse lie down ? are they kept tied up all the time ? 
a 10 x 10 box stall is for a regular size horse in my area, and for drafts i would want to see larger. My pens are 18 ' wide with a rain cover, so they can lie down easily. 
those stalls look like a work out and a half.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

stevenson said:


> on the straight stalls, I have never seen them here, so how does a horse lie down ? are they kept tied up all the time ?
> a 10 x 10 box stall is for a regular size horse in my area, and for drafts i would want to see larger. My pens are 18 ' wide with a rain cover, so they can lie down easily.
> those stalls look like a work out and a half.


They just, lay down, and yes they are tied while they are in the stall. We've used straight stalls for 10+ years and never had a problem.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Wow, that is a lot of filth! Kudos to you for getting it all out of there, one shovelfull at a time! That's dedication! 

Concrete is massively expensive. I wanted to skip it altogether, but hubby insisted on it. It's nice to have a solid, level surface to clean, but I would have been happy with dirt/wood floors. I won't even tell you how much it cost to put a 4 foot concrete frost wall + full concrete slab for a 48 x 32 building... 

Anyway, keep posting pictures! Your plans look good.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Acadianartist said:


> Wow, that is a lot of filth! Kudos to you for getting it all out of there, one shovelfull at a time! That's dedication!
> 
> Concrete is massively expensive. I wanted to skip it altogether, but hubby insisted on it. It's nice to have a solid, level surface to clean, but I would have been happy with dirt/wood floors. I won't even tell you how much it cost to put a 4 foot concrete frost wall + full concrete slab for a 48 x 32 building...
> 
> Anyway, keep posting pictures! Your plans look good.


We've decided on pouring our own floor, we did it in our last barn and we have a concrete pourer in the family now! Mums boyfriend pours and forms concrete for a living.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

stevenson said:


> on the straight stalls, I have never seen them here, so how does a horse lie down ? are they kept tied up all the time ?
> a 10 x 10 box stall is for a regular size horse in my area, and for drafts i would want to see larger. My pens are 18 ' wide with a rain cover, so they can lie down easily.
> those stalls look like a work out and a half.


I didn't have the time to give you a full explanation so I will now: 
A standing stall is a chute type stall with a manger or hay bag at the front, and a tie. We put our ties around three feet high and long enough for them to lie down. We used them due to having five horses, very little lumber and space. They're easy to use, and they know their manners after being in a straight stall. We used them to deal with kickers, because eventually if they want to get fed they have to let you by. They know get over, stand, and back up. 

If your horse isn't stalled for long periods of time it's great. They lie down by dropping onto their knees and lying down, and get up by putting their front legs out and getting up. They just can't stretch out "dead man style". It also avoids horses getting aggressive at feeding time and ending up pinning you against the wall. If they do pin you its with their side and a screw to the flank fixes this problem easily.


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## Kyleen Drake (May 26, 2016)

I wish I lived nearby, I'd come out and pick it up, haul it off for you! Good naturally of course, I wouldn't have an alternate motive! *Angel face* Nope, none at all. I wouldn't use it in my gardens and be grinning from ear to ear! Na! > Loving the progress! Really wish I lived nearby, I'd get in there and help you if I could have some free land filler / fertilizer. lol

Going to need barn kitties for the mice?


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

*Update!*

Big news from the little farm. 
As of today we are nearly done cleaning the manure out of the barn. We have a 6 foot wide strip 16 feet long and about 4 feet deep left. So much better than the whole floor! We will be ordering lumber and talking concrete within the week! 

A big setback was the size of the barn. I was told it was 30x30 and spent the better part of a week picking, perfecting and calculating a blueprint. Turns out, the barn actually measures 24'x28'. So tonight I stayed up all night revising the blueprints and re calculating lumber. 

My original copy of the plans consisted of a seven stall barn with (3)10x10 box stalls, (2) draft size tie stalls and (2) regular tie stalls and an eight foot isle. 

After lots of rethinking
and re-planning we've decided to cover the current doors and cut new ones to create a centre isle, instead of a C shaped isle. The barn will have (3) 8x12 box stalls, (2) draft tie stalls and a single "back in" tie type stall. 
The "back in" stall will be a straight stall with a gate, the horses head will be pointed out instead of his bum for safety reasons. The hardest part about revising the plan was to keep it safe. No bums too close, pulling horses away from traffick areas where kids may be. Thus the "backward" straight stall. 

I'll be posting the new plan later!


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## Kyleen Drake (May 26, 2016)

Enjoying reading about what I affectionately call your new 'weight loss plan' hehe


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Kyleen Drake said:


> Enjoying reading about what I affectionately call your new 'weight loss plan' hehe


I'm actually down 10 pounds since starting the project!!


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## Kyleen Drake (May 26, 2016)

I read that part, it kinda stuck.. Get Er Done!!!! Cowgirl up.. I can't wait to see how the barn, and you, turn out, by the end of it.. You might need before and after photos of yourself! And the barn..


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## Kay Armstrong (Jun 28, 2015)

Love hearing about your progress! Keep it up...can't wait to see pix of your horses in their new digs.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

WhattaTroubleMaker here! I have some updates! 

Lumber has been ordered as well as ready mix for the concrete floor. We have a little, tiny bit of poop left to shovel that we're getting out of there tomorrow! As soon as that is done the concrete is going in. 

Pictures are coming in a minute!


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Also- we have a bear problem. The first day we shovelled we watched a large sow come into the yard. She went away, but we saw where she has been bedding down behind the barn. A week or so later we chased her out of the neighbours field and discovered that she had two or three small Cubs with her. 

Yesterday I was there alone and I turned to throw a fork full of crap out the window and she was standing at the window peering in at me. I was so shocked we just looked at each other for thirty or so seconds. I poked at her with the fork and screamed like a mad man but she didn't leave the property. She lingered until we left. 

So, ultimately we will have to shoot her, but she'll add meat to the freezer. I can't have her around with only one horse and two small goats on property.


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## Kyleen Drake (May 26, 2016)

Unless you just need the meat, and that's okay if you do, you can have wildlife fish and game relocate her. Seeing as she's got cubs..


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Kyleen Drake said:


> Unless you just need the meat, and that's okay if you do, you can have wildlife fish and game relocate her. Seeing as she's got cubs..


In my experience, they never do anything right. Plus she'd look some beautiful in the freezer. Imo regardless if she has Cubs, she's a nuisance. We've dealt with bear attacks on both horses and cows. We might just set a connibear for the Cubs too.


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## Kyleen Drake (May 26, 2016)

I had a bear steak for the first time when I went to visit my in-laws. I had no idea, I thought it was beef. It was just as good! lol

Going to need electric fence to keep the pests out?

And eager to see these photos!


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Im back! And we use electric regardless plus the .22-250 is great pest/predator control. The goats at going in electrified pagewire so that should be enough to keep pests out 🤔 

I was just allowed back in so I'm working on the photos!


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)




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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)




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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)




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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)




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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)




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## karliejaye (Nov 19, 2011)

Holy sh*t, that was a lot of poo to shovel!


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)




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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Literally! And we're still not done. Only another days worth of shovelling though! Then we're pouring concrete and starting on the stalls! We're hoping to be all moved in within two weeks. I'll have my boy out to pasture while we build stalls, since he's out 24/7 anyway. We also have 50 meat kings coming within the month so we're working on cleaning and repairing the chicken coop as well.


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## Kyleen Drake (May 26, 2016)

I can't help but wonder what happened to the people who lived there before you, and how it got like that. What must someone go though and how little help they must've had to let it do that. But glad you're making progress. Loved the landscape photo. Can't wait to see the barn with the floor in!


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Kyleen Drake said:


> I can't help but wonder what happened to the people who lived there before you, and how it got like that. What must someone go though and how little help they must've had to let it do that. But glad you're making progress. Loved the landscape photo. Can't wait to see the barn with the floor in!


We know now what happened and it was a very unfortunate thing, an unfortunate accident. It's no ones fault and it wasn't a case of true neglect. The horse is still happy and healthy down the road pushing 28 years old. Sometimes life gets us! All our hard work will pay off though, the barn isn't that old and is still very solid. 
We're replacing the support beam with two spaces at eight feet to make our stall corners, we will have an outdoor wash stall, shoeing stocks and an isle with cross ties!! I'm so excited.


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## Kyleen Drake (May 26, 2016)

Yeah I wouldn't think it was neglect for a minute. They went through a lot of trouble to make that barn for the horse, and try to keep it well. Makes me think they cared for their animals. My thought is someone got hurt or injured and couldn't quite cope on their own anymore. And didn't have any help to speak of. A sad situation to be in indeed. Glad the horse is okay.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

BIG UPDATES! 

we are officially moved in. We are living with no power for the week cooking off the BBQ but we're here. The barn is completely clean and ready for flooring, apart from some old stall walls that need tearing down. We are repairing and setting up the fence tomorrow. 

We have moved our two goats to the new place. The Timothy hay in the pasture is perfect and four to five feet high. Everything is coming along beautifully. Our dog is loving being back in the country.

Power should be restored within a week to ten days, and as soon as the power is on we are trailing Trouble up as well as a new pony I bought to be trained as a cart pony. 

Sale plans fell through with the two horses we put down payments on, so the hunt is back on for two beginner safe trail horses and a pull team. 

I am so pleased with how everything is coming together. Our curses turned into blessings- we could not afford the outrageous power bill at the house we were renting so they cut us off, which forced us to get off our butts and finally move, which in turn proved that our landlord had been coming in the house like we thought. 

We left the cats locked in the old house the first night we stayed at the new place so we could get furniture settled and the place cleaned up before we moved the five cats in. When we returned the following day our "darter" as we call him was outside meowing at the door. He is an indoor/outdoor cat and will run out the door when you open it, returning whenever he likes. The door was still locked, the windows were closed, the only way he could have gotten out was if someone opened the door. 

The landlord came over while we were in the yard and said "I see you got some furniture moved to the new place!" He couldn't have known unless he was in the house. He tried to cover it up by saying he seen a truck leave with the furniture, but we don't have a truck, we loaded it all in the car.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

_So, you are doing all this back-breaking work and investing money in improvements of concrete, fencing and such and you don't own the place???
Man, you are way nicer than I ....

As for your landlord letting himself into your home...
Think not!! :x
If you can't change the locks to secure the place then I would be adding another lock in either a padlock and hasp or deadbolt to the doors and making darn sure the windows are all working locks too.
If you are paying the rent bill, then you also have rights.
Your landlord may have the right to check to make sure the house has working plumbing, appliances...but you also have the right to privacy and being home when he wants in....
Again, you are way nicer than I would be...:wink:

If you do own it and the previous owner is still making themself at home...unless a tenant they have "0" right to be in that house.
They "get-out" or the police will be taking them out for trespassing...:x
But that is me.....:icon_rolleyes:

BTW...vast improvement of the barn area from first to last pictures shared...good job!!
:runninghorse2:....
_


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

horselovinguy said:


> _So, you are doing all this back-breaking work and investing money in improvements of concrete, fencing and such and you don't own the place???
> Man, you are way nicer than I ....
> 
> As for your landlord letting himself into your home...
> ...


No no, we now DO own the new place! Only a few more mortgage payments to pay. 

We were renting a place for the winter, this is where the landlord Rd was coming in. we could never get proof of him coming in, but now that we're almost moved out we know for sure.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Quick upda


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Quick update- were moving trouble in tomorrow! Having concrete poured hopefully within the week. And then the building starts. I have a section panelled off inside with q dirt floor so he can get out of the flies. We have no internet so updates may be sporadic, but pictures will come soon


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Another update- the guy who was going to trailer trouble had some unexpected work come up so we're postponing the big move until Saturday. In the mean time we finally have running water and power, next is Internet and phone services. 
I've been making a good impression in the new neighbourhood, volunteering and doing hay for three different farms. I'm purchasing ducklings and another goat (of the female kind) to keep our boys company. 
The search for another horse still goes on. 
I'm going to be taking a lot of pictures tonight and tomorrow so I will hopefully have some uploaded within the next two days. 

On another note: I'm down to 190 pounds from 208 since we've been here. Putting in 1000 bales a day does wonders for the body!


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Big news! 
Trouble is home! He trailered beautifully, walked right into the trailer with only a moments hesitation. He didn't move around much on the drive home. 

He backed off nicely, took a look around and decided it was nice enough to have a snack. We walked the fence line and I spent a little time sitting with him while he ate. 

His poop is starting to harden up again, it was quite runny all day yesterday, but he's settling great. He's by himself plus two goats, and he put the front feet to the goats right away so I don't know if they'll be buddies but he's starting to tolerate their nibbling and going ons. 

He turned quite dependent on me again, and won't leave the gate unless I'm outside. I'm going to give him more time to adjust. 

I bought two Buffy ducklings and got ahold of eight barred rock bantams and they're happy in the coop. Pictures coming now!


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Here he is fresh off the trailer!


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Update time!! 
It's been going slow, because you know, life. 
BUT- we finally got all the old rotten flooring tore out of the barn. One half is completely clean to hard packed dirt and this is where we have made temporary stalls for the two horses. The other side is an absolute mess, but it's coming along. All the poop is GONE! It was hauled away with the skid-steer today. There is mud and a chunk remaining that needs to be cleaned, but that's beside the point. The gravel is coming soon, going to be ramped down, and a hemlock floor put in. The main goal is a new floor for now, we will worry about stalls later. I have some pictures! They will be posted shortly.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Spirits temp tie place, minus her hay bag.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Troubles temp tie place.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Now behold, the ugly side of the barn. It's slowly starting to come around. There is about a foot of mud, but the rotten sills and flooring are out. The gravel will go over this and be tamped down level before the whole barn is jacked up and the sills replaced, and a shiny new hemlock floor laid down. New doors are being cut out, a six and eight foot bay foot on either end, and the current doors are being build over with new wall. The horses are very happy in the clean side of the barn.


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## Bright Stride Equine (Oct 20, 2016)

What would you say is the minimum width of an isle for cross ties?
~I think technically it is 12ft but you could get away with 10.


We're doing 10x10 box stalls to save space, that sounds right, right? 
~10x10 is the minimum but that is pretty small for anything not pony sized. Even 10x12 is better.

How wide do you think our standing stalls should be? 
~Maybe 5ft? Wide enough for the horse to fit but to turn around.

Also we are thinking open concept stalls with bars to minimize wood chewing, are bars a good route to take? I've seen some sort of mesh as well.
~ you want the bottom 4ft to be solid (normally of wood) then bars or mesh works. Chicken mesh is a cheap fix.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Bright Stride Equine said:


> What would you say is the minimum width of an isle for cross ties?
> ~I think technically it is 12ft but you could get away with 10.
> 
> 
> ...


We're actually doing an 8 foot isle, 8x12 box stalls and two five foot straight stalls. We're sacrificing isle width for that extra stall space. I've had to *grudgingly* put up with a 6 foot isle and I always said "I wish it was two feet wider!" So it should make do. 
The stalls are going to be solid up to four feet with medium gauge wire ceiling high for maximum air flow. The blueprints have been drawn up for a few months now!


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## Bright Stride Equine (Oct 20, 2016)

WhattaTroublemaker said:


> We're actually doing an 8 foot isle, 8x12 box stalls and two five foot straight stalls. We're sacrificing isle width for that extra stall space. I've had to *grudgingly* put up with a 6 foot isle and I always said "I wish it was two feet wider!" So it should make do.
> The stalls are going to be solid up to four feet with medium gauge wire ceiling high for maximum air flow. The blueprints have been drawn up for a few months now!


Sounds like a solid plan! Very exciting


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Bright Stride Equine said:


> ~ you want the bottom 4ft to be solid (normally of wood) then bars or mesh works._* Chicken mesh is a cheap fix*_.


_*Please, please do not use chicken mesh...*
If this is what is being referred to...
_
_








That is to light a material, period.
Your horses run the risk of putting their face through it and getting a serious cut or tear of skin, a poke in the eye...
There are much better options to use that are not expensive to purchase and purchase just once and it last.
:runninghorse2:...
jmo...
_


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

horselovinguy said:


> _*Please, please do not use chicken mesh...*
> If this is what is being referred to...
> _
> _
> ...


Yes I agree, were using medium duty mesh with two inch squares. It's made for horse barns actually! Plus, it's cheaper per foot than actual chicken wire!


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## Bright Stride Equine (Oct 20, 2016)

horselovinguy said:


> Bright Stride Equine said:
> 
> 
> > ~ you want the bottom 4ft to be solid (normally of wood) then bars or mesh works._* Chicken mesh is a cheap fix*_.
> ...


Agreed, I just sort of call all wire mesh "chicken mesh"


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Do your horses tend to chew wood? Because ours don't so I left the tops of stalls open. Was in several barns when I was planning mine and I saw someone else do this because she liked her horses to be able to put their heads over their stalls. I agreed so I didn't put any bars up and I have to say, I love it this way. My horses don't chew, but then again, they're hardly ever stalled so they don't get a chance to get bored. 

My stalls are 10 x 12 and I have 10 foot aisles, which I love, but 8 feet is doable. With the open tops of their stalls though, they feel a lot bigger. This is Harley who is 14.2 hh in his 10 x 12 stall which, as you can see, is plenty big. He would have been ok in a 10 x 10 stall, but the extra room is nice because it gives extra space to hang buckets, feeders and haynets and still leave plenty of room to lay down.


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## Bright Stride Equine (Oct 20, 2016)

Acadianartist said:


> Do your horses tend to chew wood? Because ours don't so I left the tops of stalls open. Was in several barns when I was planning mine and I saw someone else do this because she liked her horses to be able to put their heads over their stalls. I agreed so I didn't put any bars up and I have to say, I love it this way. My horses don't chew, but then again, they're hardly ever stalled so they don't get a chance to get bored.
> .


Are your stalls open into the aisle or from stall to stall? I love having them with open/half wall fronts but never seen any with open sides. I think peoples main concern is food aggression with that.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

And from the inside of the stall.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Bright Stride Equine said:


> Are your stalls open into the aisle or from stall to stall? I love having them with open/half wall fronts but never seen any with open sides. I think peoples main concern is food aggression with that.


Open into the aisle. Between the stalls is a solid wall of course. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

WhattaTroublemaker said:


> Here's some snaps from yesterday! This whole is 3 1/2 feet deep,


Rent a bobcat & get that done in a day or less.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

@Acadianartist Trouble likes to jump his way to freedom, and we will be buying two-three more horses after the barn is built, (we dont know if they will be chewers) so we opted for mesh- it allows light and air to get through. The box stalls do have windows that will have flaps so they can stick their heads outside and let lots of air through though. No wall will be higher than 4 feet to allow maximum light and air, and it'll be good for spirit, who doesn't like not being able to see Trouble. Everyone can see eachother (us included) and it minimizes wood chewing. 

A few things I hated about our last barn- 
The stalls were solid wood and very high-6+ feet so no air flowed through. 
The high stalls made is SO dark in there.
The lack of visibility caused me a good sore knee one time- I was grooming Trouble alone in the barn, my father walked in and yelled (a habit we fell into in case someone was having a pee or just not to startle the horses when walking behind them) and it spooked Trouble. He ended up slamming me into the wall and I hit myself pretty hard. 
Mesh pretty much solves all these problems. 

I really wanted open stall fronts, but my little escape artist.. er, horse.. likes to push his luck. He jumped out of his last open stall just to test the water in the bucket on the other side of the barn. Which was the same water in his bucket :lol: i wouldn't have believed he'd get over it if he didn't do it in front of me!


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

natisha said:


> Rent a bobcat & get that done in a day or less.


It's all shovelled out now! We have a skid steer (like a bobcat?) but the doors were too narrow to fit. In order to cut larger doors, we had to get the poo out :-/ so we did what we had to. The sills were rotten on one end, and where we were going to cut the door was the only beam on that end holding the roof up. That is dealt with now (added a few more braces) so we're cutting doors hopefully next weekend.


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## Bright Stride Equine (Oct 20, 2016)

Acadianartist said:


> Open into the aisle. Between the stalls is a solid wall of course. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.


No worries, was just curious


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

WhattaTroublemaker said:


> It's all shovelled out now! We have a skid steer (like a bobcat?) but the doors were too narrow to fit. In order to cut larger doors, we had to get the poo out :-/ so we did what we had to. The sills were rotten on one end, and where we were going to cut the door was the only beam on that end holding the roof up. That is dealt with now (added a few more braces) so we're cutting doors hopefully next weekend.


Wow you guys sure worked your tails off!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

WhattaTroublemaker said:


> @Acadianartist Trouble likes to jump his way to freedom, and we will be buying two-three more horses after the barn is built, (we dont know if they will be chewers) so we opted for mesh- it allows light and air to get through. The box stalls do have windows that will have flaps so they can stick their heads outside and let lots of air through though. No wall will be higher than 4 feet to allow maximum light and air, and it'll be good for spirit, who doesn't like not being able to see Trouble. Everyone can see eachother (us included) and it minimizes wood chewing.
> 
> A few things I hated about our last barn-
> The stalls were solid wood and very high-6+ feet so no air flowed through.
> ...


Yikes! Well then yes, definitely closed front! And yes, good lighting is a must. Ideally, natural, but at this time of year, you don't get any light after 5 pm anyway and even late afternoon light is spotty. Speaking of which, we got ripped off on the electrical so hopefully you have someone reliable to do it for you. Of course you should encase all wire in conduit and use those globe lights (which we did), but they charged us a ridiculous amount. Lesson learned. They did a good job, but I bet we could have had it done for half what we paid. We put in 4 lights in the barn side (24 x 32 space), another in the loft and crazy powerful lighting in the equipment bay area which is also 24 x 32. Those are for my husband, but they've come in useful when the vet had to float Kodak's teeth. We just put her in the doorway between the two spaces and bam! surgical lighting! 

I would have liked to have put in skylights, but with a loft, that wasn't possible.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Acadianartist said:


> Yikes! Well then yes, definitely closed front! And yes, good lighting is a must. Ideally, natural, but at this time of year, you don't get any light after 5 pm anyway and even late afternoon light is spotty. Speaking of which, we got ripped off on the electrical so hopefully you have someone reliable to do it for you. Of course you should encase all wire in conduit and use those globe lights (which we did), but they charged us a ridiculous amount. Lesson learned. They did a good job, but I bet we could have had it done for half what we paid. We put in 4 lights in the barn side (24 x 32 space), another in the loft and crazy powerful lighting in the equipment bay area which is also 24 x 32. Those are for my husband, but they've come in useful when the vet had to float Kodak's teeth. We just put her in the doorway between the two spaces and bam! surgical lighting!
> 
> I would have liked to have put in skylights, but with a loft, that wasn't possible.


The electrical is already done, we have industrial bulbs now. It was done years ago and still works now. Better not to fix what ain't broke. I'm so sorry that happened to you  our plumbing guy did that in our house. He used the most expensive products and materials he possibly could, then went back and told us "I could have done it for 1000$ less but whatever." Great guy.


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