# Critique these two possible "buys" please!



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Eh, I'm not a huge fan of either of them. I really dislike the bay's back. She's really downhill and her withers are large and sharp. I can imagine that would make saddle fitting a pain in the butt. I do like her legs though.

On the other hand, I like the paint's body quite a bit more...but it looks like she's maybe pigeon toed on the front and she may be badly base narrow. She might also be bow-legged on the front. Of course, I'm just judging the pictures of her standing in the pasture...and sometimes horses stand funky even when their legs aren't funky.

If her front legs are straight, then I'd probably choose the paint. She's younger, her body is better, and she won't have under saddle issues to sort out.


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

The paint is probably the wisest choice, since she's younger. The bay has a sweet looking face though.


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## PreciousPony (Feb 15, 2013)

That bay has some serious conformation issues. I definitely would not go for her. REALLY down hill, high withers, super short back (she even looks a little roach backed). I'm guessing it would be really hard to find a saddle that fits properly, she may even need a custom. Looks back at the knee in front and camped out behind, and her legs are too short for her body.

The paint is better, but still has some issues. She's got a fairly upright shoulder and from the first picture she looks base narrow. She has a really steep croup and something just looks a little odd about her hind end. However I think her problems are much more manageable, and I think she will really shine once she gets some muscle tone all over.


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## Cait (Nov 25, 2012)

Ok, a random question....I know that downhill is undesirable, however, what about it makes it so bad? Heavy on the forehand? My husband remembered her registered name: "Sheza Zippy Leo". Oh! And another big change, she isn't 14, she is *SEVEN! *Might explain why she bucked on the beginners...if she was started late, when they got her she would have been green broke.

Sheza Zippy Leo Quarter Horse
Here is an old ad I found from when she was 3:

_Zippy is a calm, quiet girl who loves attention. She loads, stands for farrier and has a stocky build. She gets along well with other horses and has been pastured with cows, showing a great deal of interest in them. She will "push" them to where she wants them. She was born in Minnesota. We have watched her grow and now she is ready for the next step. She is not broke, she has had a minimal amount of ground work, but learns quickly and is ready to start her under saddle training. She has a good disposition, good feet and a big butt. She is quick on her feet, stopping and turning quickly. She is not spooky and is inquisitive of new things. She is easy to catch in the pasture and comes when she sees people. She also has seen many deer and wild turkeys. _

I agree that the paint looks more narrow in that first picture. However, I don't think she was that bad in person. As it was stated, I think she was just standing awkward. Of course, stupid me, I forgot to take pictures of her front and rear...Here is another picture of her. Not the best one AT ALL because she is kinda camped out (no, this isn't how she stands). She wasn't used to being handled and instead of bringing her back legs forward, just kept stretching ....


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

With her being as badly downhill as she is, not only will she be heavy on the forehand, but keeping your saddle in place will be a b***h. It will want to slide forward and put all the pressure right on her shoulders...exacerbating the heavy front end problem. With her being shaped the way she is, with the severe downhill build and the large withers you'd have hell finding any saddle to fit her well (which _might_ explain the bucking problem). It looks almost like it's a sway back and, even though it's really _not_, you'd probably have to treat it that way and likely have a custom saddle made to fit her.


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## PreciousPony (Feb 15, 2013)

After seeing that new picture of the paint... I'm really not too fond of her anymore either! It could just be that she's standing awkwardly and whoever took the picture kind of looks like they were taking it looking down on her, which doesn't help. I do still think that muscling/conditioning will help her a lot. It's just that neither of them are very conformationally correct.

and she looks a lot smaller than 14.2!


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## Cait (Nov 25, 2012)

Maybe I should just take that second one down...I am 6 foot tall (the one holding her). My hubby, who took the pic, is 6'4, so yea, he is probably looking down on her...AND she is standing awkwardly! lol Don't know why I put it up I guess...


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## goneriding (Jun 6, 2011)

Is the bay standing on level ground?


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## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

It's a shame about the bay... there is something I really like about her! But her being (possibly) butt-high with that almost "swayed" dip/lack of back muscling and downhill build are a real bummer. I am curious what she would look like after a few months of ground work to work on that topline, though. Do you have any other shots of her standing on level ground?

If you have the time and patience, the filly could have some potential, but in your situation I'd probably move on to look at other rescue or "free" horses.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Hate the legs on both of them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

I would use neither as a project.. only companion. They have their own sets of issues that would make riding difficult

The legs/pasterns on the paint for starters.. I don't think riding the pain would be very safe... and that butt high bay mare.. saddle fitting will be VERY hard.. not to mention you'll be fighting gravity all the time to stay on your seatbones or pockets even...

Just allow them to be companions and look elsewhere for a project horse.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Crappy photos.. and remember.. horses and advice are usually worth what you pay. 

If you are looking for a horse to train and learn from and maybe make into a trail horse then the paint is the better horse. If you are looking for something more.. well... read sentence #1 (and remember advice here is also free).


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## Cait (Nov 25, 2012)

*New Pictures!*

First of all, note to self...get a better photographer









We went back out to the horses today in an attempt to get better pictures of the Paint mare. I guess maybe the ones we got were a bit better, but not too much. I also attempted to get a video of her moving. Again, this was difficult because the bay mare is VERY friendly. So the entire time, she was trying to go to my "camera man" or come to me with this look on her face like "Why are you chasing me? Don't you love me?" They have about a 5 acre pasture, but wouldn't leave us, so again, not the best video.

But anyways, hopefully these will be of more assistance!

Video:











































Not sure these last two are worth it...she was standing up on a snow clump in the back and I couldn't see very well. My husband said it was fine (he was also freezing and ready to go), and when we got home I noticed it...

















I also discovered the the paints tail is practically one big mat...oh boy...


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

Any more of the bay?? And what is it with husbands? Oh its fine, looks great, um, not, ha ha ha.


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## Cait (Nov 25, 2012)

Oh, forgot to update! The lady is a distant family member so she offered them to me for free, but someone approached her about the bay and offered her money. I told her to go ahead and take the money instead of giving her to me for free. I figured it helped her mom out and it helped me make a decision!

But yes, definitely need a new photographer next time


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

The paint looks to have a very vertical, bouncy trot. The bay is much more smooth. However, the paint has better conformation than the bay, which isn't saying much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PreciousPony (Feb 15, 2013)

The paint looked better in the video then in any of the pictures! lol. Still not put together great, but she seems like she is sound enough to use for trails and probably small jumps/ low level disciplines.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

The video isn't playing for me..


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## enh817 (Jun 1, 2012)

Just a tip: If you do decide to take the paint, even though the horse is free, it would still be very wise to get a vet out to do a pre-purchase exam. 
Would be a shame to get the horse home, only to find out it has something wrong with it that could prevent you from riding it and/or cost you a bunch of money in vet bills and care.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I couldn't get the video to play smoothly for me (it was more like a set of still photos run together), but I still like the paint more. She's got her faults and, like Drafty said, she may have a bouncy trot due to her being upright through the shoulder and croup, but I don't see any reason why she wouldn't make a decent prospect.

What's much more important than any minor conformational faults is her mind and temperament.


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## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

In the video, the paint is quite adorable...  Flagging her tail and trouncing around like that... I wonder if her trot under saddle (and with more muscling, training, control) would be so bouncy. My arab does that bouncy little flagged trot in the round pen when he's in a mood/forgetting that he is gelded, when under saddle he is quite comfortable. I don't know much about movement, though.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

existentialpony said:


> ...Flagging her tail and trouncing around like that... I wonder if her trot under saddle (and with more muscling, training, control) would be so bouncy. My arab does that bouncy little flagged trot in the round pen when he's in a mood/forgetting that he is gelded, when under saddle he is quite comfortable. I don't know much about movement, though.


This is an excellent point. You can't really get a true sense of a horse's gait when they've got their head and tail in the air and are prancing around all full of vinegar. Lots of things about a horse can change between moving at liberty and moving under saddle. I started a filly several years ago that would always have her head up like a giraffe whenever she was loose, but under saddle, from the start, she had a nice, level headset.


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## ParaIndy (Sep 10, 2012)

I like the paint.....


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## moniegx3 (Feb 18, 2013)

the bay looks pretty good, but her front legs are pretty sloped backwards.


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