# This Miracle Collar is no miracle...



## Skippy! (Dec 18, 2006)

Back when I still boarded my horses (in Los Angeles) one of the horses cribbed even with the Miracle Collar, so they put a wire cage muzzle on him and he stopped cribbing right away. 

I have been fortunate enough to never own a cribber, or own a horse that ended up cribbing while in my care. So i don't endorse the wire cage muzzle, its just what I saw someone put on their horse. The horse had to keep a halter on 24/7 while stalled though.

It breaks my heart to see a horse crib.. it really does =/ And it makes me feel worse when i see the horses wearing the collars that are so tight they cant carry their head higher than their shoulders.. and muzzles that clink into things. It just makes a horse that was stressed enough to pick up a bad habit hopelessly depressed =/ (and im speaking from my own experience).

Best of luck hun =) Sorry i couldn't offer any advice


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## Sir Drake (Mar 8, 2009)

It breaks my heart every time I see him latch his teeth onto that wood and give it a suck. It makes me wonder what could have happened to him that he had to resort to something like that. 
I've thought about the cage muzzle, but that would just break my heart ever more. My barnowner has a cribber or two, but I just can't stand it.


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

My horse cribs, and I use the old one-strap, 'nutcracker' styled strap with the metal at the bottom (not pointy or anything!).

I found that this works the absolute best for me and my horse. The 'miracle collar' would rub his skin raw and he had no forelock anymore, and the skin all where the strap was would get raw and bloody. I saw the nylon strap for 7 bucks in the tack store, so I got it and tried it.

He doesn't crib, I don't have to keep it on the tightest setting (It's really loose actually when you compare it to the M. collar), and all of his mane and forelock grow. He has no problem with me putting it on and off. I absolutely love it, ESPECIALLY since I show and I can't have big hairless pieces on the sides of his neck (not to mention it hurt him!!).

Have you every tried one of these?


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## Jane Honda (Feb 27, 2009)

I owned a hard core cribber. The only set back was his teeth slightly worn down as he aged, and the damage in the few chosen areas he cribbed. I never had any health problems with him, and I never used a collar. It broke my heart to see him crib, but those contraptions made me even more sad.


Some of these horses have had a rough life, and they end up cribbing for the endorphins. Thats the only good thing they have, and then they are stuck with the addiction when they meet us. (the good people) 


I wouldn't worry too much about it if you don't stop him from cribbing. If he has just a few places that he does it, then make sure they are reinforced so damage is minimal. Some horses will do it with nothing to brace their teeth upon.


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## Skippy! (Dec 18, 2006)

Wow Mayfield, i've never heard of those things working!! o.o!! Awesome!! I know exactly what you're talking about.

How does that collar work on the throat? Does it slip? I think i've had a big misconception on it, again, because of user error on the horse owner's part. The horse i knew that used one of those still cribbed like crazy

And every horse that wears the miracle collar gets the rubbed hair =/ Even if they use the fuzzies.

Thats awesome that the original collars work so well!

It is really sad, and its sad that the horse will continue to crib even when in a good situation =/ Just be thankful that he's with you now, and the stressful parts of his life are over *hugs*


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

The one I have doesn't slip. It's this big old dirt encrusted nylon thing. I considered getting a nice leather one, but I figured why fix it if it ain't broke? lool.

You can put holes in it if it's not tight enough, but ideally it shouldn't be tight enough to cause an indent about the strap, lol.


Absolutely do not ignore his cribbing. It can cause colic (like in my horse), very worn sometimes unfixable teeth, ulcers and weight loss.


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## Jane Honda (Feb 27, 2009)

Maybe I should restructure my original post.


I never said to ignore cribbing. But, if there is nothing you can do about it, then you can't do anything about it. Why make the poor creature more miserable just to ease your own mind. Make sure he can eat well, and that the stressors of his environment are low. I never put my gelding in a stall so he could spend his days cribbing. He always had free choice. I made sure there was no competition during feeding, and I NEVER showed him. He had enough of that.

Eventually, I had to sell him. (stoopid ex husbands request, as he was originally his horse) and he eventually died of old age in the care of a sweet and loving family. 



Just make sure you make their life as comfortable as possible. Keep his environment safe from any damage he may cause from his cribbing. Make sure he can chew his feed well, has access to plenty of water, worming and dental care.

Sometimes, thats all we can do.


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## Sir Drake (Mar 8, 2009)

I actually thought about getting the nutcracker strap. I saw them on ebay for $3. Its worth the shot!
Drake doesn't crib as much anymore, like I had said, so its not really his whole life. I just see it every once in a while. His field has free choice hay and his eating is fine.


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## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

Have you discussed the possibility of ulcers with your vet?
Does he crib between bites of feed? Does he have free choice forage?


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

I disagree, there's always something you can do about it. Put on a wire muzzle. They can still eat and drink... and they're not in danger from cribbing. How are they miserable?

My horse is outside 24/7 (we don't have stalls to put them in so it's not an option) with grass and hay. And he still cribs if he feels like it, so sometimes that doesn't help.

I do agree about the ulcers--my gelding got them after being discharged from the new bolton center, and he cribbed like crazy because of them.


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## Jane Honda (Feb 27, 2009)

mayfieldk said:


> I disagree, there's always something you can do about it. Put on a wire muzzle. They can still eat and drink... and they're not in danger from cribbing. How are they miserable?
> 
> My horse is outside 24/7 (we don't have stalls to put them in so it's not an option) with grass and hay. *And he still cribs if he feels like it, so sometimes that doesn't help.*
> 
> I do agree about the ulcers--my gelding got them after being discharged from the new bolton center, and he cribbed like crazy because of them.


Thats my point. If you put a wire muzzle on, sure he can still eat and drink, but his other horsey activities are taken away that make him happy. For example, mutual grooming.

If your guy is very prone to colicking or other extremely detrimental issues from cribbing, then the muzzle would be the lesser of two evils. If your horse doesn't exhibit any sign of colic, ulcers, or the like then I would leave it be.


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## Sir Drake (Mar 8, 2009)

He used to crib with bits of feed, but I haven't seen this in awhile, actually. I have not discussed ulcers, but that seems possible... I will look into that, too. Yes, he does have free choice hay.


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## Jane Honda (Feb 27, 2009)

My gelding used to do it with feed as well. Only grain though. And, ONLY when he was in his stall.

Almost makes you wish you could read their minds and find out _why_?


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Has anyone mentioned looking into his diet, living conditions, or ability to exercise?


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## G and K's Mom (Jan 11, 2008)

Hot wire installed on the inside of the fencing can slow them down.


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## Whipple (Feb 2, 2009)

There's already hot ropes installed.
Hero cribs. But I noticed, he had hid collar off all day Saturday. He was on stall rest due to a striking incident. I didnt notice him cribbing at all. Yet other times he went without his collar he cribbed bad. So there must be another factor, and I am interested to know what it is. It might be ulcers, but since I'm not his owner or caretaker I can't do much.
Just a sidenote, his collar does help and I havent noticed any rubbing.


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

Let him crib, those collars are torture devices.
The cribbing in itself isn't harmful (except for the teeth if he takes support with them, but he'll dothat whateveryou do), but the reasons for his cribbing (mental stress) can be. The cribbing is just a way to help him deal with the real problem, take that away is like tying the hand on someone with tons of mosquito bites.. it doesn't make them more at ease. Plus, the collar is physically hurting him..

If he started at the old barn, the real issue might be gone, but now he still needs the cribbing to relieve stress.


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## Skippy! (Dec 18, 2006)

Electric fences may curb it, but they'll just crib on buckets and water troughs instead =/

And to my knowledge, Cribbing could actually hurt the horse in the long run and not just superficially with wearing down the teeth (that will happen too!) Some vets believe that the air ingested can cause colic due to the air being "swallowed" so to speak.

Of course, diagnozing a specific reason for colic can be nearly impossible at times 

Best of luck hun!


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

Skippy; I've gone through a 3 years education/high school on horses and according to them it's just a long-lived myth that the cribbing horse actually swallows air 
The answer to the cases of colic in cribbers is that cribbing often starts on horses that doesn't get enough food, or by some reason has a problem/pain in their digesting systems, which in turn can cause colic.


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## Jane Honda (Feb 27, 2009)

Zab said:


> Skippy; I've gone through a 3 years education/high school on horses and according to them it's just a long-lived myth that the cribbing horse actually swallows air
> The answer to the cases of colic in cribbers is that cribbing often starts on horses that doesn't get enough food, or by some reason has a problem/pain in their digesting systems, which in turn can cause colic.



I have seen this a few times as well, if only I could pull up some sources...


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## kim_angel (Oct 16, 2007)

When I bought Cocoa at age 5 (she will be 31 yrs old next month) she was already a cribber. I dont know really where it started as she had a few owners before me. But she was already a die hard cribber.

The B/O gave me a nutcracker collar for her and that is what I used for a good many years. Did it stop her from cribbing? Sometimes. But she learned how to rub it on trees and such and get the cracker part up on top of her neck so she could crib. If I tightened it so she couldnt turn it, it gave her sores. 

One day I found a new product called the Miracle Collar. She has worn these Miracle Collars ever since. She has never had a sore from it, her forelock has always been small so I cant really say whether it ruined her forelock or not. But it doesnt appear so. She cant turn it as easy as she did with the nutcracker and she very rarely cribs. There are times when I can take the collar off for a week or two before she realizes its off and starts to crib again. For Cocoa, the Miracle Collar has been nothing short of a miracle. She would crib rather than eat if she didnt have a collar on.

To those that think cribbing isnt a health problem, I strongly disagree. I have seen it first hand. My horse has been happier and healthier since I found the Miracle Collar. I am not saying the same collar works for all horses but be careful of the nutcracker collar as well because I have seen horses twist them to the side and get them caught on things and I have seen them give sores as well.

Most cribbers will always be cribbers even if you change the environment they are in. Its a learned bad habit.... not unlike smoking. LOL


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## Sir Drake (Mar 8, 2009)

JustDressageIt said:


> Has anyone mentioned looking into his diet, living conditions, or ability to exercise?


Right now he is on a "custom" sweet feed that my barn owner has. He used to be on Purina Strategy. He eats a tim/grass mix all day long. As for the ability to exercise? I'm not really sure what you mean. He is ridden about 4 times a week. 

I _think_ he probably developed the habit two owners before me. The girl that sold him to me saw him in a field while passing by one day. He was very skinny (I saw pictures and it was bad) and not taken care of. One day she and her trainer stopped at their house and asked if they could take the horse to a better place. The woman said that it wasn't her horse, it was just in her field. So she did some calling around and eventually she got him to her farm. He got fattened up pretty well and she had started his training process. She had him for a year before I bought him. Before she found him, I have no idea what he had to go through. It makes me so mad that you can just look at a horse everyday and not even think about feeding it or finding it a better home. :-x


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## Skippy! (Dec 18, 2006)

Zab said:


> Skippy; I've gone through a 3 years education/high school on horses and according to them it's just a long-lived myth that the cribbing horse actually swallows air


 
As I said _-some-_ vets believe cribbing may cause colic because of "swallowing air". And I followed it up by saying that causes of colic can be ambiguous at times.

To elaborate, what I was trying to say is... Some vets/horse people think that cribbing can lead to colic. It is not a fact that cribbing does make a horse colic, nor can it be completely dismissed.. because truthfully, it is pretty much impossible to say it is a myth.. because there may just be that -one- horse out there that does colic because of cribbing.



> cribbing often starts on horses that doesn't get enough food, or by some reason has a problem/pain in their digesting systems, which in turn can cause colic


And i've never met a horse that started cribbing solely because of poor nutrition. The cribbers i've met started cribbing because of high stress lives and extreme boredom/isolation.

I hope that makes more sense. I tried my best to cover my bases but evidently i failed 

Sorry to drag the thread off topic guys. I know this thread is about trying to curb a horse's cribbing, but i wanted to make sure I replied to this 

**Edited to add**

http://www.equi-therapy.net/equi-therapy/stable/crib-biting-windsucking.shtml
"Crib-biting and windsucking are different variations of the same vice in each case the horse swallows air."

UC Davis Book Of Horses:
http://books.google.com/books?id=bY...iNX3Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result
"the horse simply flexes his neck and forcibly swallows air"
(i have more quotes from this, i just don't want to type them out since its a screenshot of the book)


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

First I wanted to clear up in my earlier post--my horse cribs occasionally WITHOUT the collar. He can not, and will not, crib at all with it. *

Let him crib, those collars are torture devices.*

Lol. Because letting them wear down their teeth, lose weight, and colic is a better option then letting a collar hang on their neck. If it was a torture device, why does my gelding calmly let me put it on him everyday? The 'nutcracker action' only comes into play when the horse tries to crib. He realizes he can't.. and then the collar does absolutely nothing to him.
Huh.

*Skippy; I've gone through a 3 years education/high school on horses and according to them it's just a long-lived myth that the cribbing horse actually swallows air 
The answer to the cases of colic in cribbers is that cribbing often starts on horses that doesn't get enough food, or by some reason has a problem/pain in their digesting systems, which in turn can cause colic.*

No it's not, and I can be one of the people to prove it. My horse colics when he is allowed to crib. We got him the collar, and... hm, that's funny--no colics since!

Like Skippy said, it's impossible to RULE OUT cribbing as a cause of colic.

Some vets say that you don't have to soak beat pulp--and some vets say that you absolutely must. Just because you read it in a few places doesn't make it true--especially when it comes to horses.

 Went to college for horses, love. 

*'cribbing often starts on horses that doesn't get enough food, or by some reason has a problem/pain in their digesting systems, which in turn can cause colic'*

Very incorrect. They usually start cribbing because of boredom or pain. Usually, a 'stall vice'.


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## kim_angel (Oct 16, 2007)

Lets not forget that a horses digestion begins in their mouth. They grind their food to begin breaking it down. If they do not have the ability to properly grind their food in their mouth, they will not get all the benefits and nutrients from what they are eating. It is important to try to stop a horse from cribbing with the use of collars because if not, they will wear their teeth down to a point where they will be in severe trouble at older ages. 

They will not be able to maintain weight properly without teeth............

As cruel as collars may look, they are a necessary evil.

Cocoa on her 30th bday with her Miracle Collar on


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

Skippy; to little food doesn't mean too little nutrition, but too little amount to eat.
Not enough to eat causes boredom and stress in an animal designed to eat 16 hours a day. 
And some horses start cribbing because of stomach pains.
And of course there can be other things that stress a horse.


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## Sir Drake (Mar 8, 2009)

No offense to y'all, but I don't want this to turn into an argument. I just wanted some advice from others who have success with cribbers... He is not under nourished and he has plenty to eat. I know that it is not a nutrition issue. This is obviously a controversial subject, but still. 
Keep the peace guys.


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## Skippy! (Dec 18, 2006)

Good suggestion Drake ^^

Have you thought of what you're going to do with him yet?


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## Sir Drake (Mar 8, 2009)

I'm pretty sure that I'm going to try the nutcracker strap. Its much cheaper than most, too!


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Sir Drake said:


> Right now he is on a "custom" sweet feed that my barn owner has. He used to be on Purina Strategy. He eats a tim/grass mix all day long. As for the ability to exercise? I'm not really sure what you mean. He is ridden about 4 times a week.
> 
> I _think_ he probably developed the habit two owners before me. The girl that sold him to me saw him in a field while passing by one day. He was very skinny (I saw pictures and it was bad) and not taken care of. One day she and her trainer stopped at their house and asked if they could take the horse to a better place. The woman said that it wasn't her horse, it was just in her field. So she did some calling around and eventually she got him to her farm. He got fattened up pretty well and she had started his training process. She had him for a year before I bought him. Before she found him, I have no idea what he had to go through. It makes me so mad that you can just look at a horse everyday and not even think about feeding it or finding it a better home. :-x


Have you talked to the vet about possible gastrointestinal problems? That would be my first step with a cribber. If your horse does have a gastrointestinal problem, then addressing that could cure or curb it the cribbing.
Some horses crib out of boredom as well, which is why I was wondering how much room he has to roam and how much exercise he gets.


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## Sir Drake (Mar 8, 2009)

I haven't talked to my vet about that actually. I think she is coming out soon for spring shots, so I guess I might as well ask her about it! 
He definitely has enough room to roam, but he doesn't much because he would rather eat hay!


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Sir Drake said:


> I haven't talked to my vet about that actually. I think she is coming out soon for spring shots, so I guess I might as well ask her about it!
> He definitely has enough room to roam, but he doesn't much because he would rather eat hay!


It's definitely worth asking your vet about! If that is the case, then there are definitely treatments, such as probiotics and the such... as simple as adding a probiotic to his daly feed could really help his gut. Like I said, definitely something to talk to your vet about.


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## Sir Drake (Mar 8, 2009)

Will do! Thanks so much!


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## VACountryGirl (Jan 14, 2009)

mayfieldk said:


> My horse cribs, and I use the old one-strap, 'nutcracker' styled strap with the metal at the bottom (not pointy or anything!).
> 
> I found that this works the absolute best for me and my horse. The 'miracle collar' would rub his skin raw and he had no forelock anymore, and the skin all where the strap was would get raw and bloody. I saw the nylon strap for 7 bucks in the tack store, so I got it and tried it.
> 
> ...


I have only used the nylon "cheapies" but to be honest, they are the best, in my opinion. My horse is also a hardcore cribber (except not now because he's in a HUGE pasture with grass so he just eats all day) and as soon as that collar goes on, he stops instantly. It's the greatest! And he doesn't lose hair anywhere with it either!


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