# Can I feed amplify to my dog?



## cakemom (Jul 4, 2010)

Honestly, I'd go for a better grade of dog food. You want to look for more nutrient dense dog foods. 
Good food but not too expensive is 4 Health at Tractor Supply. It has no corn, wheat or soy fillers. I have a German Shepherd myself, have had one my entire married life. You want to feed 2x a day if you're trying to build her up. Remember that shepherds are not supposed to be really well fleshed out, they are a thinner breed. Pedigree really isn't a very nutrient rich food, and you have to feed much more food than if you feed a better quality food. I'm by no means saying 4 Health is THE BEST food on the market, but it's a good solid food that will do well for your pet. Now..I love Orion for Shepherds, but I can't spend that on a dog food for a 70 lb PUPPY, ROFL.

link to food:
http://www.tractorsupply.com/dog-pr...ormula-for-adult-dogs-dog-food-35-lb--5149621


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## coffeeaddict (Jun 18, 2010)

I would also suggest buying a dog food that's more nutritious. You'll actually end up feeding less that way so it's cheaper in the long run. 

I suspect the reason your dog isn't gaining weight is because of what you're feeding her. I've seen a lot of hard keepers on cheap dog food and they don't gain weight for anything no matter how much you feed them because there's no nutrition in the food. They just poop it all out. 

I feed my dogs Evo which is about $60 per 40lb bag, but I only feed my aussies 1 cup per day and my big Collie only gets two cups. One bag will last me a month and I have four dogs. If I were feeding them pedigree they would have to get at least four to five cups each per day to maintain the same weight. 

Blue Buffalo can be found in most pet stores and it would be my second choice. I think it's about $34 per 30 lb bag. You would still feed less of this that you would the pedigree so it would be cheaper in the long run and your dog will probably gain weight.

I would stay away from mixing the horse feed with the dog food. 

If you really want to go cheap and still feed her a healthy meal, then just feed raw. I used to do that with mine and it only cost me about $70 per month to feed ALL 4 of my dogs. If you talk to local butchers you can usually get chicken leg quarters and chicken backs for a very low price. Just toss the dog a leg quarter or two every night and you're done. Yep, right out of the fridge. Raw.


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## cakemom (Jul 4, 2010)

Alot of shepherd owners use and love Blue, my dogs can't eat it because it gives my Jack GAS!! ROFL


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

I don't have a lot of time... But the short answer is - don't screw around with your dog's food.  I mean that in the nicest possible way, I've seen some really nasty examples of what happens when you start messing with the ratios/amounts of vitamins/minerals etc. 

Either feed it a quality dog food formulated for it's particular lifestyle/breed/age or go to a qualified nutritionist and allow them to formulate a feeding program for you. 

If you're short on money you can feed a cheaper dog food. It's not going to kill your dog and while it's coat won't be as shiny and you'll have more coming out the other end it's a lot better than making up your own feeding program.

I've fed and liked: Eagle Pack, NutriSource, Fromms, Solid Gold, and a couple other feeds. I've found that some dogs do great on one and do terrible on another, so it can take a little work to see what the best is for your particular animal. I would give at least a couple of months to see results though. 

Anyways, I wrote more than I have time for, so good luck.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

What every one else said.

Find a quality dog food your dog eats and does well on and you will see a huge improvement.


Think of it this way. Horses are herbivores. Dogs are carnivores. Do you really think a food product designed for a herbivore is the correct thing for your dog?


Lacking a more polite way to stay it, Pedigree is CRAP food. Kind of like you eating at Mcdonalds three meals per day every day.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Dogs are actually much closer to ominivores than pure (or obligate) carnivores, but close enough for this purpose :wink:


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> Dogs are actucally much closer to ominivores than carnivores, but close enough


Yeah, I realize. I figured if I said omnivore it would make people think 'oh good, then I can feed them horse feed and they will be fine'.

I have a dog that is very content eating hay along with my horse. They will eat from the same pile.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Yeah, you're right.  My dogs LOVE the horse food and my cats all eat the hay... Just weird.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

This was my line of thinking...

Dogs are omnivores that thrive on meat right? I see that a lot of dogs foods have meat as the first ingredients and then various forms of plant products.

I was looking at a very popular dog supplement, Missing Link. The ingredients are Flaxseed, Rice Bran, Primary Dried Yeast, Cane Molasses, Sunflower Seed, Freeze Dried Beef Liver, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Dried Carrot, Ground Beef Bone*, Dried Fish Solubles, Ground Barley Grass, Dried Kelp, Freeze Dried Oyster, Zinc Monomethionine, Lecithin, Chromium Yeast, Selenium Yeast, Niacin (Vitamin B3), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Garlic, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Thiamine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B1), Folic Acid, and Vitamin B12 Supplement. Amplify doesn't contain quite that much but the main ingredients are vegetable oil, rice bran, flax seed based. Obviously none of the beef or bone meals..

So I was just thinking I could add a small amount to a cheaper dog food like pedigree (dog foods available at wal-mart! I live in the country I don't have a ton of options) to up the fat and protein content. 

I mean really of all the stuff my dogs eat (horse poo, horse feed, smegma beans..) is amplify really going to hurt my dog? Lol ?


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## coffeeaddict (Jun 18, 2010)

You probably won't hurt your dog, but you won't make much difference either. Trust me wen I say that no amount of additives will make Pedigree a good dog food. It is basically floor scrapings from the meat processing plant and some corn. The same is true for Science Diet, Pro Plan, Ole Roy, etc. etc. 

I'm not trying to be snotty about it, I realize you don't have a lot of options due to being out in the country.

Maybe you could drive to the next town once a month and get something good?

Maybe there's a costco near you? Kirkland dog food is sold there and if I had to choose between pedigree and Kirkland I'd pick Kirkland every time. And it's cheap.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Go to your vet and talk to him/her about your dogs issues - there could be issues like ulcers and other underlying issues that could be causing the hard weight gain.

I would turn to your vet first and get led into the right direction.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

I havn't asked about the amplify yet, but I will. I have asked about what to do about putting weight on her and they said that other than worming her, german sheps have high metabolisms and I could add some vegetable oil to wet dog food or mix wet and kibble. 

The issue I'm running into is I've tried different brands of kibble and wet. I've tried ol roy, nutrena, pedigree, science diet, exclusive? kibbles and wet and the only one she'll eat is the pedigree wet and only beef stew and kind of the chicken but not as well. I can mix a little dry food in it but not much or she won't eat it. The amplify is a very very small nugget and mixes very easily. I tried a small handful today and she ate it.


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## coffeeaddict (Jun 18, 2010)

> I've tried ol roy, nutrena, pedigree, science diet, exclusive? kibbles and wet and the only one she'll eat is the pedigree wet and only beef stew


These are all about the same quality. Avoid them if possible. 

If she won't eat what you feed her, then take the bowl up after 10 minutes and put it away until the next day. Odds are, she will be hungry by then and will eat. If not, repeat. I've never had a dog go past four days on a strike before they give in and eat wheat I put in the bowl. No problems after that. 

Being a picky eater may be part of the reason she won't gain weight, and that can be fixed. Don't keep changing foods hoping she will like something, don't leave the bowl down all day. Put a few cups down and if she doesn't want it no problem, she can not eat until tomorrow. 

A healthy dog can go over a week without eating and not suffer any after effects, but a healthy dog also won't starve themselves. She will realize that she must eat what you give.

I realize she's already having a hard time putting weight on, but by allowing her to be a picky eater that is only making your problem worse. You'll have to stop that behavior first before you can expect her to gain weight.

You seem to have your heart set on feeding her amplify, and if you're going to do it, no one can convince you otherwise. I will just say that it's going to be a waste of product because it's not going to do much for the dog nutrition wise.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

What if I mixed a little enrich 12 with it? LOL


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## coffeeaddict (Jun 18, 2010)

I give up. I wish you luck with your dog.


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## payette (Jun 3, 2010)

Our dogs eat cheap dog food, but they eat lots of other stuff too. We live in the mountains, so they drag home hunter's elk scraps half the year, and we keep frozen "icky" stew meat/scraps for them the rest of the time. . . I'd feed your dog some raw meat, and veggies, if she's so inclined. 
Smegma Beans!!!!!! OMG! My dogs aren't the only ones!!??!!! :rofl:


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

Seriously! I had a gelding with a bean bigger than a golf ball and I set it down to get my cell phone to take a pic and I turned back and my dog had eatin it!! Sooo gross.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I totally agree with coffeeaddict!

You have tried crap!

And it is not uncommon for dogs to prefer to eat crap dog food because it is coated with greasy oil junk just to make it more palatable. Not make it better for the dog.


Living in the middle of no where is no excuse to feed your dog crappy food.
There are online places that sell premium food and they all ship. Some even offer free shipping.
Heck, Smartpak offers some good brands of dog food. You can buy it in smartpak rations or in bags. Flat rate shipping. They will even send you a sample.
Your excuse to feed your dog crap is just that, an excuse.

Do you make excuses to feed the horses crap too?


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## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

No, feeding amplify is not a good choice. The vitamin/mineral ratios are not the same for horses and dogs. You need to stick to dog food and for a dog that burns it up you need to choose a good quality dog food in order to maintain weight. The lower quality dog foods such as Old Roy and many of the things you find at the grocery store have alot of fillers in them. This means that they have fewer digestible calories in the same amount of them as you find in the better quality foods, so your dog has to eat more of them to get the same amount of calories. With a picky eater this is often hard to get them to do.

I have to disagree about the quality of the foods that you have fed. (And no, before someone starts, I don't make any money selling any of those brands of food. I just have seen the results of feeding them over 20+ years.) Alot of the hype over what is in dog foods results from new companies on the market trying to find a niche and give owners a reason to choose their products--not real science. 

But the problem for you is finding a balance between good quality and a flavor and texture that your dog likes. A picky eater in a dog is much easier to deal with than a cat thank goodness because a dog will not starve themselves to death if they don't like what you put in front of them. But it's still hard to get them to maintain a good weight just because they may not eat enough just because they don't like something about the food.

I would recommend that you check several of the pet food stores and vets offices and see if they offer samples of their food or choose products that offer a 100% money back guarantee even if the only problem with the bag/can is that the dog doesn't like it. You can also add fat to whatever diet you are feeding your dog as simply as you can add it to your horse's diet. A couple of teaspoons of fish oil or vegetable oil directly into the food. 

You may not end up using the brand of food that you would have selected for your dog, but by sampling several brands you may find one that he will eat better. And truly the quality doesn't much matter if the dog won't eat enough to maintain good weight and health. So, you may end up with more fillers than you would like but if it works for your dog sometimes that's just what you have to go with.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

This just popped into my head -

My Grandparents lost a few dogs to cancer due to who knows really what - but the Vet said it was from the poor quality of dog food. Old Roy for one...

Anyways, they got a German Shephard, and a Rotweiler as pups from someone giving them away outside the grocery store in cardboard boxes - and my Grandparents went the natural way.

Hiker and Milly were their names.

They went to feeding them white rice, raw egg, and ground beef. They did fairly well on that diet - ask your vet about it. That diet was given to them by their vet.



> I have to disagree about the quality of the foods that you have fed. (And no, before someone starts, I don't make any money selling any of those brands of food. I just have seen the results of feeding them over 20+ years.) Alot of the hype over what is in dog foods results from new companies on the market trying to find a niche and give owners a reason to choose their products--not real science.


I agree. Our Canine Vet said that he's been studdying dog foods since he started school, which was eons ago - and he said Purina is one of the best foods out there and highly recommends it. Our dogs eat Purina, and they are very healthy.


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

Purina dog foods is about equal to purina horse feed JUNK


Dog Food Analysis - Reviews of kibble


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## coffeeaddict (Jun 18, 2010)

> I agree. Our Canine Vet said that he's been studdying dog foods since he started school, which was eons ago - and he said Purina is one of the best foods out there and highly recommends it. Our dogs eat Purina, and they are very healthy.


Purina and Science Diet will often sponsor the one or two classes a vet will get on canine nutrition in school. That's why nearly every vet will reccommend them. It's also common for vets to get kickbacks if you buy a particiular food from them. Hence another reason to push it.

It is a sad truth that you just cannot trust what the majority of vets will tell you about dog food. Unless they have taken the time to educate themselves on the subject, because vet school certainly won't do that for them.


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## payette (Jun 3, 2010)

Different things work for different dogs. I've seen lovely shiny roly poly dogs full of spunk that eat "crap", while on the other hand, I had a boxer mix 10 years ago who would get the funkiest skin and coat conditions when eating any dog food with a high percentage of corn meal. I personally am not going to buy my dogs $50-60 dollar a bag food when they thrive on the cheap stuff. Just not happening. They eat decent amounts of raw meat regularly plus plenty of table scraps (another "no-no"!) and they are healthy as can be. If one of them was in poor condition, I'd consider more expensive food, however. 
Anyway, to the OP, it seems the consensus is do not feed your dog a horse supplement.  Good luck with finding what works best for you and your dog!


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## deineria (Mar 22, 2009)

The best option that is still low cost is IAMS. Purina and Pedigree aren't very good dog foods, and canned dog food from those brands is even worse.

Dogs that aren't in good condtion usually improve when you stop feeding the Purina/Pedigree or even cheaper dog feeds.

Of course, what is in the horse feed isn't what the dog needs. They might eat on it a bit, as mine do, but that doesn't mean they should have it as part of their diet day to day.

IAMS isn't expensive and I have seen it put weight on dogs or cats that weren't gaining on pedigree or purina. I can't afford the $$ Dog foods and feed mine a lot of actual meat we have left over. They are all in great condition, and it works for us.


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## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

coffeeaddict said:


> Purina and Science Diet will often sponsor the one or two classes a vet will get on canine nutrition in school. That's why nearly every vet will reccommend them. It's also common for vets to get kickbacks if you buy a particiular food from them. Hence another reason to push it.
> 
> It is a sad truth that you just cannot trust what the majority of vets will tell you about dog food. Unless they have taken the time to educate themselves on the subject, because vet school certainly won't do that for them.


And you know this how? Vet school or doing the ordering in a veterinary practice? 

The different feed companies will often sponsor LUNCHES at vet school, but they do not teach nor provide the nutritional education classes at vet school. (I know too many instructors at A&M to believe this--one of them is the President Elect of the Veterinary Technology association that I am on the board of so I get my information first-hand.) Vet school actually does offer nutrition courses taught by qualified nutritionists that work FOR THE COLLEGE, not for some pet food company. 

I have also done the purchasing at more than one veterinary hospital. Vets don't get "kick backs" from these food companies. They purchase product and sell it just like any other business does. They buy a product that they trust or that fits their need and then sell it and make a markup. It's not some disgusting underhanded deal like so people who are trying to sell you their new pet food will make it out to be. 

I'm sorry but I'm really tired of hearing these exact arguments spouted by people who have only heard this from other owners or directly from the new companies trying to push their products. Everyone hears it repeatedly from all sorts of other owners and companies so they believe it. But it's simply not the truth...just something that has been repeated so often that many people believe it.


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## cakemom (Jul 4, 2010)

Well, I will say that when I worked as a vet tech, for ten years, I did ordering and indeed, the more Science Diet we sold, the more they gave us free to feed in our kennels. Perhaps it's not that way now.
One way or the other...I don't find that vets keep themselves educated enough about nutrition. Mine got HUGELY upset at me for feeding mine raw, although it is the most balanced of diets if you do it correctly, and told me he would not be to blame if it caused them troubles. Needless to say, he's no longer my vet, ROFL. (they don't eat raw now because I just can't do it with the big ole shepherd puppy)


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## coffeeaddict (Jun 18, 2010)

I've gotten my information directly from several friends who are vets. I know several vets personally because I've been a dog trainer for over 11 years and people in the pet industry talk. My info is not from other owners or from other food companies. 

Will it vary from school to school, of course, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.


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## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

And where is there something wrong with encouraging sales of the product they are purchasing to sell? It's just like any other product sales---when you buy it wholesale the more you purchase the more of a discount you get on the product. 

It is certainly doesn't mean that they don't recommend what they feel is best for your pet. 

You are correct that most vets don't focus on nutrition once they get out of school. If that was their interest they would have chosen to be nutritionists. But neither are the owners or many of the other people touting RAW or other diet brands experts on nutrition. That doesn't mean that the diets that they sell aren't appropriate or good quality. There is tons more research done on nutrition by the food companies such as Hill's than by the newer companies who ride on their coat-tails and use more in the way of marketing for the newest fads.


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

Actually Ryle my feed store gets x amount off of her next order for every bag sold... which is WHY they PUSH Purina products instead of Kent or the Umbargers


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## coffeeaddict (Jun 18, 2010)

> There is tons more research done on nutrition by the food companies such as Hill's than by the newer companies who ride on their coat-tails and use more in the way of marketing for the newest fads.


These are the main ingredients in a bag of lamb and rice from Science Diet.

*Lamb Meal, Brewers Rice, Rice Flour, Ground Whole Grain Wheat, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Corn Gluten Meal.*

Since when do dogs need all that rice, corn, gluten, etc.? 

If they are doing tons of research on dog food then they need to hire someone who is not about the bottom line to run their studies, because there is no way those ingredients make up a healthy dog food. Dogs in the wild don't eat corn or rice, they eat meat.

Even the fact that there is meat as the first ingredient doesn't mean much because the other ingredient outweigh it. 

Will a dog survive on it? Sure. The dog will not keel over and die if it is fed Science Diet. But a child fed Mcdonalds every day won't die from that either, at least not right away, but no one will say it's healthy.

For comparison, these are the main ingredients in a bag of Evo Turkey and Chicken.

*Turkey, chicken, turkey meal, chicken meal, potatoes, hearing meal, chicken fat, eggs*

I think the difference is pretty self explanatory.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Maybe Wolves eat meat on a regular basis - but wild dogs and coyote's will eat anything they can wrap their mouths around - being scraps, bread, fries, and etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

They aren't particular. 

We are also talking about domesticated animals, bred by humans for humans - no dog we see today, are meant to be wild so therefore, the foods that are being produced today, are being produced for the needs of domesticated dogs.

My dogs do very well on Purina foods. They are at the right weight, very healthy, very energetic, and pass their vet exams every time they go to the vet.

I'm happy with Purina Dog Food, and so are millions of others.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

I feed totally raw food and my best friend and breeder whom I got my dogs from has fed raw for over 20 years. She also has not dealt with cancer during this time in her dogs.
I work for a vet and we sell Science Diet. I sell it because I work there, but don't get into discussions about "I think this is a wonderful food". We have two vets at this clinic, one knows I feed raw and totally is cool with it, the other one is better off not knowing aboutt it.
Before I started feeding raw about two years ago, after my friend constantly trying to get me to use it, I fed all the most expensive types of food, but still had issues with skin, coats, etc. Feeding raw, my dogs( Bernese Mountain Dogs) have dark rich black colors, their coats are huge and soft, no itching, scratching or other issues, plus the whitest teeth you can imagine. 
They get raw chicken necks, turkey necks(during hunting season they get elk, deer, moose ribs.) I grind fresh vegetables and fruit to mix with their food, plus they get vitamins and eggs daily. I grind all the goodies up and put it in baggies for daily feeding about once a month and just add the eggs, vitamins and any other goodies.
One of the biggest killers of dogs of all breeds and sizes is cancer, and the one thing most dogs have in common, whether a show dog, a pet or a rescue is dry food. Something to think about.


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## coffeeaddict (Jun 18, 2010)

> My dogs do very well on Purina foods. They are at the right weight, very healthy, very energetic, and pass their vet exams every time they go to the vet.


Again, I will point to the child being fed McDonals comparison.That kid will probably be full of energy, very happy and not get a bad report from their doctor, but doesn't that mean there won't be long term effects from eating crap every day.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Geesh, what did we all do in the days before dog food? 

I bet (heaven forbid) they ate scraps! I hear smegma beans, testicles from castrations, horse poo and hoof trimmings were among their favorites, lol! :lol:


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## cakemom (Jul 4, 2010)

Hey now, don't tell the kiddos at the barn those aren't good food, they will NOT believe you. Camp week is their favorite, all the grooming and trimming going on, it's like heaven.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

The vet tech at my barn has a jack russell that had major skin allergies... She tried all the expensive dog foods on top of meds to control the allergies and then the vet said try Ol' Roy and that his dog was the same way and both their skin allergies cleared up! My lab was on ol roy complete and he was very fit and thriving.

I've tried the if you don't eat it then starve technique. She will eventually eat but just enough to survive. I was thinking by adding a little amplify to the food it would be better than just adding vegetable oil because at least it has some extra protein, vitamins and minerals.


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## Cupcake (Nov 17, 2009)

Here is an informative website containing analyses of different dog foods: Dog Food Analysis - Reviews of kibble You can research the dog foods available to you and pick the best one for your situation.

I adopted an Aussie X who "just couldn't keep weight on." He was eating Pedigree, free-feed, and was literally skin and bones. When I picked him up I felt like I was either going to break him or his bones were going to poke through his skin somewhere. He's a small dog and doesn't eat much, and I think that most of what he was eating was going straight out the other end (nutritionless fillers), and that he burned right up any nutrition he actually managed to get out of the food due to his high/nervous energy. His coat was stringy and dull. After bringing him home, I gradually switched him to Chicken Avoderm (decent quality yet affordable) and initially supplemented his food with NutriCal (Nutri-Cal (Pet Supplies - Cat Supplies - Dietary Support)) until he had attained a healthy weight. He loved the NutriCal and it plumped him right up, quick! He now eats just 1 - 1.5 cups of Avoderm a day (he doesn't always finish his meals) and is actually a little on the chunky side. I get complimented on his soft shiny coat all the time. He looks like a different dog! 

Long story short... Find a good quality kibble and your dog will be much healthier and happier! They get much more nutrition out of a smaller amount of kibble with higher quality kibble than with a kibble made up mostly of filler. Especially if your dog prefers not to pig out, like my little Aussie, it's important that what little they do eat is packed with enough nutrition to keep them at a healthy weight. And I highly recommend NutriCal as a supplement for getting/keeping weight on a dog... It worked like a charm for my pup.


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## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

starlinestables said:


> The vet tech at my barn has a jack russell that had major skin allergies... She tried all the expensive dog foods on top of meds to control the allergies and then the vet said try Ol' Roy and that his dog was the same way and both their skin allergies cleared up! My lab was on ol roy complete and he was very fit and thriving.
> 
> I've tried the if you don't eat it then starve technique. She will eventually eat but just enough to survive. I was thinking by adding a little amplify to the food it would be better than just adding vegetable oil because at least it has some extra protein, vitamins and minerals.


The allergy thing doesn't mean that it's a quality food. It just means that it doesn't have whatever the dog is allergic to in it. And truthfully, Old Roy is nutritionally complete. But it isn't calorically dense so requires that it be fed in greater quantities to meet your dogs nutritional needs. Doesn't mean it's not ok to feed, it just means that it may not fit someone else's needs as far as dog food. For example, someone with a huge dog may not want to have to feed twice as much and pickup twice as much feces. 

And adding extra protein, vitamins and minerals in the wrong balance isn't an improvement. If she is eating enough to survive but not to put on weight then she is at least meeting minimal needs so the addition of a bit of oil simply for the extra calories is fine. But it would be better to sample several different varieties of of foods and find one that she actually eats well.

And before dog foods, we had dogs who didn't live as long and had much more occurance of nutritional disease. As well as having more issues with serious GI disturbances like pancreatitis which can be fatal.


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## coffeeaddict (Jun 18, 2010)

> And truthfully, Old Roy is nutritionally complete.


These are the main ingredients in a bag of Ol Roy. If that is "nutritionally complete" then I have to wonder, is the standard simply that the dog doesn't die when you feed it?

*Ground yellow corn, soybean meal, ground whole wheat, corn syrup, poultry fat*


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## BaliDoll (Sep 21, 2009)

I see that you posted this on dog forum and that those people have said the same thing.

Dogs are carnivores. We have made them into omnivores because it's cheaper to feed them grains and sugars and other crap we put in dog food. DOGS CANNOT EAT GRAIN. It is very hard on their bodies. A vegetable is a fine source of carbs, but not grains. Pedigree is a very low grade food, first ingredient being CORN which is not even something a dog can break down or use at all.

If you do want to give your dog quality nutrition you need to buy a dog food without by-products or grains. first three ingredients of a good dog food should be meat, preferably not ending in "meal" or "by product meal" or "by product". My dogs food's ingredients are: Bison, venison, and then it goes to Lamb meal (which isn't ideal but I can't afford any better on a college kid budget!)

Others have said on dog forum to get kirklands from costco and I agree. It's a decent food, MUCH better than pedigree, and it's around $26 for a 30lb bag. If you want to research other dog foods (I recommend wellness, eagle pack holistic, EVO, before grain, taste of the wild... all very good foods) go to Dog Food Analysis - Reviews of kibble and learn more about dog food. 

And... sorry for the novel. I am pre-vet med and I am really into dog nutrition so I thought I'd speak up...


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## draftrider (Mar 31, 2010)

I feed my dogs raw. I raise my own meat, and all the trimmings I keep back and package in quart size ziplocks. I butcher a steer, 3 hogs, 2 lambs, 2 wether goats, and about 300 chickens each year. I also butcher 40-50 rabbits, some pheasant, turkeys- you get it. Some meat gets sold but most goes to family use. 

All the "less desireable" bits, such as rabbit rib cages, shank meat, flanks, chicken thighs etc go into baggies. I also save liver, kidney, lungs, hearts etc.

I steam carrots, broccoli, green beans and any other veggies I have. Each dog gets a measured serving of brown rice, with raw meat/bones and steamed veggies. On Sunday the dogs get a serving of organ meat- liver, kidney, tripe, lung etc. 

I also use Sea Meal, its a ground up seaweed product that is PACKED with vitamins and minerals

I have Goldens and they are VERY prone to cancer. Before I started this diet, I never had a golden live past 10 without getting cancer. I switched over about 8 years ago, and currently have a 16 yr old male and a 14 yr old female that have long since retired to a long career of holding down the sofa so it doesn't fly away. All my dogs are checked yearly, seniors are twice yearly, and they pass health checks with flying colors.

Its not for everyone. You have to be committed to it. The only kibble I would feed if you were going to feed kibble with the diet is Innova Evo. This is a darn good product.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

Here is what I posted in dog forums.. the first ingredient isn't grains. I've been researching supplements like missing link and others and they are primarily made of grains... hmmmmm....

I'm feeding her 3-4 cans of 13.2 oz Pedigree Chopped Chicken daily. (She likes the beef stew better though). CP 8% Fat 7% Ingredients: Chicken by-products, Chicken, Meat By-Products, Liver, Brewers Rice, Minerals (it lists them)... Its not that I can't afford high dollar food, I'm just marveling at the costs! Yes meat processing might be more expensive but everything dog/cat is expensive not just the food although I do think its silly that feeding a 80lb dog can be more expensive than feeding a 1000lb horse.

My Shep is simply a picky eater when it comes to processed dog foods.. She prefers canned dog foods which is why I've started feeding them and even then she won't eat certain kinds. She will eat horse feed, horse crap, alfalfa hay and pellets, she never refuses pancakes and bacon (she won't eat it raw though), pizza or french fries (not saying she gets that all the time or anything). Not to mention they catch rabbits and rats.. (or my heeler does and the shep tags along).
The whole reason for this thread was that I found a food my Shep likes but I'm acknowledging that is crappy. It needs to be higher in both protein and fat and I have a horse supplement that I could mix a little with the crappy food to provide both higher protein and fat as well as vitamins and minerals and I was inquiring about the nutrient balances.

I wish people would just DROP the whole costco thing. There isn't one near by and I'm not purchasing a membership just to buy kirklands. LOL
Yes, I could order foods online but there are dozens of foods available in my area and I've tried 3/4 of them.. I found something she likes and eats WELL I just want to know what I could add to it.

Thank you Ryle for providing unbiased and professional opinions instead of witchy comments that are less than helpful.


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## coffeeaddict (Jun 18, 2010)

> Thank you Ryle for providing unbiased and professional opinions instead of witchy comments that are less than helpful.


No one is being witchy to you. Ryle just happened to post exactly what you wanted to hear, and the rest did not. 

If you cannot drive to the next town to get some higher quality dog food, and your dog loves table scraps, why don't you just feed her raw? Problem solved.


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## BaliDoll (Sep 21, 2009)

Draft rider, if only every dog owner was as devoted as you we wouldn't see as many heart breaking cases of cancer and disease in dogs. I love that you do all that for your dogs.  you're awesome!!! Lol

eta.. If your sole purpose is to put weight on your dog feed her table scraps, horse feed, whatever you want. If you want to do it in a healthy way you need a food with more protein, fat, and carbs than this food you found offers. Petco has wellness brand wet food for $1.40 a can near me, you can't beat that. Have you tried mixing a good kibble with a wet food?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## draftrider (Mar 31, 2010)

Bali, it isn't a big deal for me- it is actually LESS expensive than purchasing kibble by the bag. I have 8 large dogs plus a couple honorary Goldens, and my dog food bill would be immense if I didn't feed raw.

Thank you though! I can say my dogs are lean, have more stamina, and are happy on this diet. I take everyone (excluding my 2 couch potatoes) for a 4 wheeler run each day- we run 4 miles down to the lake, dogs go swimming, then we run 5 miles back home. It's only 8 miles, but when we get home they are bouncing and ready to do it again.

My brother brought his dog over the other day and he tried to do it... He couldn't make 2 miles. Had to pack him on the 4 wheeler to the lake and back.


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## BaliDoll (Sep 21, 2009)

Wow! I wish I could offer my dogs health like that. I hate living in the city sometimes...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BaliDoll (Sep 21, 2009)

And, coffee addict, your point about hills science diet is exactly right. It kills me that fellow pre vet students are so excited to get free hills dog food when we get into vet school... I am always just like "uhhh... That's like getting free KFC for life... Not that awesome of a deal."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

coffeeaddict, have you ever been to Texas? the next town over is exactly like my town. It has a grocery store, post office, a couple of gas stations, a feed store and a sonic. Walmart alone is a 30 minute drive on a good day.. I also have 25 horses in my care so on top of chores I have to ride and work with several horses a day.. oh and did I mention I have a 2 year old son?! So kiss it lady.. You have no idea what you are talking about.

It's not my objective to fatten up my dog for a cheap as possible. I would however, like to provide my dogs with good nutrition at the best value...


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## coffeeaddict (Jun 18, 2010)

So....telling me to "kiss it" is your way of saying you'd rather not feed raw either? Ok then. 

There have been a lot of suggestions in this thread and you have shot them all down, so it doesn't really seem to me like you want advice. I think you just want someone to tell you it's ok to feed pedigree and horse products mixed together. 

So, ok. It's perfectly fine to feed pedigree and horse products mixed together. Your dog will do great on it. You've come up with a fabulous idea.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Starline, just go with what your Vet says  And leave it at that.


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## draftrider (Mar 31, 2010)

Starline, you have way more in your town than I do! We have a post office, a bar, a car repair place, a firehall/townhall and an Asian market. Yes, an Asian market out in the middle of no-where, that serves as a general store. Not sure whats for dinner? Tonight its Kung Pow Chicken LOL!!!

The closest walmart is about 40 minutes away.

Say, you know that you can feed raw a lot less expensive than kibble? If you are willing to do right by your dog, one thing you can do is get cheap chicken thighs and wings when they go on sale. Meat that is close dated or out dated is fine to feed to dogs, you can bring it home and portion it out and throw it in the freezer. You can do it quite cheaply. I've seen chicken thighs for as low ast 35 cents a pound. That is less expensive than Pedigree canned! 

There has to be somewhere close to you that butchers meat- even a mom and pop place. Ask them for the trimmings and offal and portion and freeze it.

The nice thing is that you can just thaw out what you need. Have one day a month or so where you make each meal in a baggie or container, then thaw it out ahead of time for what you need. Easy peasy.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

thats exactly what I do draftrider, get a bunch of chicken or turkey necks,legs, wings, etc and put them in baggies, each a day's feeding. Also ribs from most any animals works also. 
Hey guys, I live 120 miles ONE WAY from a walmart,kmart, basically any big store. No stoplights either.
My local grocery store is local owned and they order me chicken necks by the case or turkey necks by the case. The produce man gives me the older fruit and veggies that I grind up and put in baggies.
I feed 110 lb dogs and it is much cheaper than dry dog food.


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## payette (Jun 3, 2010)

Wow, you guys live in the big city! lol! My town has a cafe. Period. Nothing else, at all! 15 years ago, there was a mudslide that washed the gas station and another resturaunt, small motel and a few homes into the river. 
Sorry, fftopic:


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