# Friend's Possible Purchase



## LoveGus (Oct 4, 2016)

this lovely girl appeared on finger lakes page and a horsey friend of mine is interested in buying this lovely girl. He has trained one ottb before, a gelding. He did ask for judgement on conformation with this one because of her price, $1500 I think it said. Plan for her is low level eventing, nothing major.So tear her apart please, give me the good the bad and the ugly on her. He sent me these Facebook screen shots because he hasn't yet even gone to see her. He just doesn't want to spend the money on her and then cost of shipping if her build won't hold up to it.


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## BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 (Apr 11, 2016)

Subbing 

The picture isn't good, really blurry and small, so it makes things (particularly her neck and throatlatch) look very odd. 

It looks like she's got either a really short underline or long back, not sure which, but the two don't look like there's much length difference. Her neck ties in pretty well but it seems to be really long? Again, could just be the picture. Her legs look really long and wonky due to the angle, her hip looks like its thrown out to the side, because of the angle, plus her feet are jumbled together, making it hard to judge.

If you can find (or get) a better picture, you'll get a much better critique. Maybe others can give you something more from that, but it's just too blurry IMO.


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## Prairie (May 13, 2016)

The picture does not show up for me......


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## LoveGus (Oct 4, 2016)

Went onto their facebook page and pulled these


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## BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 (Apr 11, 2016)

Much better! She's pretty. 

Still say she's got a short back, but not too bad. She's almost perfectly balanced height-wise (maybe a tiny bit downhill), that's awesome!

Her neck ties in a little bit high, but it looks pretty good, though I'm not sure what's going on with her neck right under her head, maybe it's just me. She could also need some muscling up there, so it could change if it is something.

Also her front legs seem to be angled oddly? I can't pinpoint exactly what's up with it, they just look "bent" for lack of a better word. Her cannons may be a little long too, but looks like the average TB in that department. Her hip's a little pointed, but she may just need groceries like a lot of OTTBs seem to. I like her shoulder, though I don't seem to be a good judge of that particular flaw. 

She's got a pretty clean throatlatch, nice head, and pretty eyes. I like her personally, providing that thing with her fronts is just angle and/or will not cause issues.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 said:


> Much better! She's pretty.
> 
> Still say she's got a short back, but not too bad. She's almost perfectly balanced height-wise (maybe a tiny bit downhill), that's awesome!
> 
> ...


I agree, especially the bold...enquiring minds are wondering why we are being asked this, kind of third hand? If someone sent you the pics to give an opinion on, then I presume that they must have a reason for thinking you have the skills to give such judgement. So what are your thoughts on this horse?


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## LoveGus (Oct 4, 2016)

Me personally I think her front legs look really off and they worry me. And her hip looks awkward to me as well. It was her legs that worried me and I even mentioned that to him which is what prompted me to post here. 

What could be wrong with them? Her description doesn't pin point any old injuries so does that mean that wonky look is genetic? I personally would so if she could handle easy trails and not eventing, because of those legs


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

She is pretty.....
How old is she and how long has she been off the track might account for some of her look yet.

So, I also see "something" in her front right below the ankle...almost like a slight twist.
It may be the slight shadowing on her legs but her knees are they straight and flat, even to the front? Is she slightly behind at the knee???
There is also a difference in muscle symmetry in the front end. Many OTTB _do not_ have this as racers use both leads.
Both hind hooves appear to toe out. Could be the stance, could be farrier work, could be the horse...
Horse looks long in the back to me..
Not fond of the horses left hind leg and how it is either positioned for photos or how it is actually slightly under the hind end in angle. The left hind looks straighter than the right hind.
I don't like the hind end as the horse stands but can't tell you what it is that bothers me _a lot_ in technicality. Is it post-legged???
I would like to see a more sloped shoulder {I think}...not sure but think it might affect striding and lift of those limbs over fences.
Neck tie in is shadowed and makes it ?? to me being in the best place....that shadow also makes me think the same thing of the upper neck and throatlatch area....something not look quite right.
Horse has a nice head, nice eye placement with intelligence showing and a beautiful ear.
Horse has gorgeous markings...

I don't know the heights of fences for low-level eventing.
She would probably be fine and able to withstand with care...
She is pretty fine-boned a girl would really concern me though...

Can't wait to see what others see and make comment on...
I am no "pro" and all physical critiques are just opinions and subject to what each individual likes or dislikes....
:runninghorse2:....
_jmo.._


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## SomethingSpecial (Aug 14, 2015)

She is over at the knee, toes in on her right front, has pretty long/sloped front pasterns, and a hoof imbalance on her front right. (You can tell because her coronet band is sloped. It may be why she is toeing in.)

She also has thickening of her front right pastern which would have me doing a thorough PPE with XRays of the fetlock/pastern areas.


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## Prairie (May 13, 2016)

I think what those who think her front legs are funky is the long pasterns coupled with the uneven muscling. She's also very light boned plus her shoulder is too straight. Heels are under run with long toes and flared so she needs a good farrier to correct that. Fairly clean throat latch, toes out on the hinds, decent motor but is goosed rumped, and I don't like how her neck ties in.


If I were looking for an eventing prospect, I'd pass on her.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

"She has had no medical procedures which could compromise future soundness and her trainer stopped on her when she noted some mild ankle rounding."

From the page.

It has obviously been addressed. Of course recommend a thorough PPE for any OTTB especially, but sounds like a good trainer who cares about the mare and that the mare is sound and well conditioned.

As far as conformation. She is gorgeous. A lot of her "issues" are common things in TBs/OTTBs especially that have been proven time and time again to NOT be a problem for them (for example, long cannons). That said while overall a beautiful eye catching horse I'm really not that impressed when I pick apart her conformation. Nothing major, but I don't think it's ideal nor that "common issue in the breed" makes things ok, BUT for light/low level eventing I'm sure she would be fine, the biggest complaint would be a straight shoulder which is not deal breaking.

BUT that's excluding the thing that DOES actually concern me- her awkward front legs are pretty scary, esp right front seems all twisted and offset. I mean, retiring sound from racing is great, she can't be too much of a wreck, but where conformation is poor she may be already compromised even if currently sound. I would personally pass, there are plenty of horses without issues like that, as nice as the whole package is. If your friend does consider her I would have the vet examine the fronts EXTRA thoroughly and give an opinion on whether she is suitable for what he wants as far as long term conformational soundness and issues (in addition to a thorough overall exam). I see no reason not to at least get a vet check if he's serious, but I would pay close attention to what the vet says, and get a good vet to do it. A better shoeing job may make a big difference.

Over at the knee isn't as much of a problem but she's relatively severe. I DO like her hind end. Her weight is great but I don't think she's "let down" yet, so you have to take that into account, I'm not seeing any problems there, though others seem to? Also not seeing any unevenness. The "off" neck is purely muscling. Hind legs are fine but long/light boned cannons (but common and not really an issue for TBs, that isn't too concerning to me.)

If she had different front legs, I'd take her myself! XD

I see they have videos on the site. May be worth seeing if they add her there (looks like she's brand new) and put one up. The trainer says she's all heart, which is worth a lot imo, esp for a sport that requires a horse like that. But will those front legs hold up...


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I haven't read any other reviews. sometimes, it's better that way. 

there's a lot to like about this filly. she has a lovely shoulder, good overall balance. a tiny but wasp wasted, and definitely buck kneed. the buck kneed can be a result of racing her hard before she is ready for it, so if you decide to go for this girl, get good xrays.
her hind end is very nice , with good gasking. yes, she toes in on the front right, but the knees are level and square. 

she isn't Perfect, but she's darn nice. if he movement is good, and her temperment level, then by all means, give her a new career. I like her and think she's better than average for OTTBS.


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## LoveGus (Oct 4, 2016)

I'll tell him to pass. I've been trying to tell him but I'll show him all of your insite on her and hopefully he'd listen. I'm an old type lippit Morgan type person,the chunkier the horse the happier I am, so I know next to nothing about common faults with tbs.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

LoveGus said:


> I'll tell him to pass. I've been trying to tell him but I'll show him all of your insite on her and hopefully he'd listen. I'm an old type lippit Morgan type person,the chunkier the horse the happier I am, so I know next to nothing about common faults with tbs.


Regardless of common faults those front legs are real wonky, for ANY horse. Shame cause she's so gorgeous.

Go Lippits! XD


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Her front legs look like they already have arthritic changes in them. I'd pass for an eventing prospect because I don't think they'd hold up to any jumping at all.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

SomethingSpecial said:


> She is over at the knee, toes in on her right front, has pretty long/sloped front pasterns, and a hoof imbalance on her front right. (You can tell because her coronet band is sloped. It may be why she is toeing in.
> She also has thickening of her front right pastern which would have me doing a thorough PPE with XRays of the fetlock/pastern areas.


Agree with this assessment and also @horselovingguy, and @Yogiwick. 
Definitely over at the knee both fronts, and right front is misaligned (may be hoof balance related or may be joint). I was taught when assessing a horse to lift the leg and bend it loosely to see if it tracks straight from the knee so the upper and lower leg bones line up. If it does, then try to bend the pastern to see if it lines up straight with the cannon bone. This helps you see if the imbalance is from a joint misalignment or from a hoof imbalance. This we can't see in a photo.

I also believe she has a long back and steep shoulder. There are a few angles that don't match up. Also, her hind hooves are bull nosed which often means they have a negative palmar angle. They also appear to have medial/lateral imbalance. This might be straightened out with good farrier work. 

All in all, I'd pass on her as a horse I wanted to use athletically or hard, and especially to carry a heavier rider. Her issues could easily result in an inability to be used for jumping or harder work without breaking down. I'd guess she could be a horse that might end up with early arthritis, tendon or ligament injuries.


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## LoveGus (Oct 4, 2016)

They haven't posted all the horses apparently that they said were going up yet. But I found a chunky bay that looks ok but I only say one iffy condo pic but he/she had more chunk then this girl. I'll post the link when he goes up cause if he's,my friend, so dead set on an ottb and this one is in the right price bracket then maybe I can convince him to go for the plain chunky bay. I'll also post the one my friend likes. 

But a lot of factors:
1. I like chunky horses so I'd be to biased to judge fairly
2. I know next to nothing on common faults in the breed
3. Having more then one opinion is better,in my eyes anyway
4. The price, his max he could spend is 2k, and any previous injuries


I did tell him about the mare and he seemed upset cause he liked her color. But he said he would keep looking for a suitable one and I asked if I could help,while mentioning I'd post here for better advice, and he said it would be ok. As I said when the bay that caught my eye I'll post the entire link as well as the one he likes.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

LoveGus said:


> I did tell him about the mare and he seemed upset cause he liked her color.


Not to be harsh, but color should be the last consideration when buying an OTTB. It sounds like he is looking for a horse on a budget, so hopefully he understands that the purchase price of an OTTB may be low compared to other horses, but the keeping price of an OTTB can be much higher than other horses. 
In general (if you find a great one, these may not be the case):
1)They need more careful hoof care than other horses, sometimes requiring special shoeing due to breeding that has produced less than ideal hooves.
2) They often need more calories than other horses, and it's not unusual for a TB in work to need pounds of hard feed besides their hay.
3) Some are less hardy than other commonly owned breeds, so may require things like blanketing to keep weight on in cold weather. 

Comparing the cost to an easy keeper QH or stock horse of similar weight, a person might spend an extra $100-$200 a month taking care of a TB at minumum.


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## mkmurphy81 (May 8, 2015)

I'm a little late to the party, and I'm no confo expert, so take my opinion for what it's worth.

That front end wonkyness looks like she may be standing under herself. Could that be a sign of hoof pain?


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

What? There are SO MANY bay TBs for under $2k... like...SO MANY.

Yeah she's pretty but there are other pretty horses too.

If he's set on an OTTB and if one is actually the right horse for him where are you (he) located? It's really not hard to find....or even close.... CANTER is a great site. Many trainers will list themselves. Sooo many rescues. New Vocations is another I was impressed with. Really good quality and price is actually rescue price (they could actually sell them for a ton more).


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## LoveGus (Oct 4, 2016)

One of his picks, I managed to talk him out of a flashy grey who was just a no go due to a weaker build Now this boy I'm not a huge fan of for following reasons:

How upright the shoulder is screams to me that this horse would not be comfortable to ride

I know it says the poultice is regular practice but still bugs me for some reason. Could that mean he may have/had leg issues? Or do some barns just do that?

The look in his eye. This is what I really hate. I know it said that he is spirited but I just don't like his eye. Nor do I like how tight the groom seems to be holding him, though he was feeling spunky

I do however like that he seems to have more muscle then the mare


My pick still hasn't been added


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

You can't link to FB and the link didn't work anyways.

I would want a nice shoulder, but uncomfortable to ride isn't OUR problem lol! You want him to be able to pick up his legs nicely while jumping which is from the shoulder, but low level and such I wouldn't be super worried about a slightly straight shoulder. (Again I can't actually SEE this so just saying lol)

Yes, some racing barns do do it as common practice as a preventative. Just like some people ALWAYS ice their horses legs.

Can't comment on his look of course, but again, is spunky OUR problem? Does your friend actually know horses and just isn't great with confo or what? Is he able to handle a spunky horse? An OTTB wouldn't be the best choice for a novice.

Muscle doesn't mean much to me. What's under the muscle? A lot of muscle on a fine boned horse doesn't change a thing.


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## LoveGus (Oct 4, 2016)

My friend is that person who was riding before he could walk. It's just he stinks when it comes to conformation, he trained an ottb before but the horse told him eventing wasn't what he want. So no he has been retransformed into a bomb proof trail horse. 

Ok I'll try to get pics off there page from Facebook.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Being a guy about how much does your friend weigh? I'm assuming he's a good match for a TB but I've definitely seen people be like "oh this horse is 16.2 it can carry me fine" and it's the scrawniest worst put together horse ever. There are TBs that are built great for weight carrying, but many are not, so don't know if that's something we need to be considering in this case.


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## LoveGus (Oct 4, 2016)

I'd guess he's between 200-210


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## LoveGus (Oct 4, 2016)

His pick I'm not a huge fan of the shoulder or the look in his eye. Description said hes a spirited fellow but still. Hopefully this works my computrr is being odd


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## LoveGus (Oct 4, 2016)

My pick still hasn't been added an I know this one has its faults. Shark fin withers etc but this horse just seems to have a more even head on its shoulders then the others


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## flaglermom (Jun 7, 2007)

This time of year, especially the places in the north, like Fingerlakes, which is where he appears to be looking-these horses are a dime a dozen. The stables close end of this month and the trainers don't want to deal with the horse when they go to Florida. Some will end up giving them away. That said, there is no such thing as a "free horse" as we all know, and what has been said about OTTB's and keeping them is SO true. Shoot-the one I had cost me a fortune in shoes.


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## BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 (Apr 11, 2016)

TBH I'm not a huge fan of either one. The others can get more specific, but I agree with what you said about the bay, plus just having a good head doesn't make the horse an eventer. Maybe it's just me, but the dark one just looks kind of wonky, for one because he/she has very long cannons and her muscle looks out of proportion on her hip Vs. her shoulder.

Don't know, SOMETHING seems really off about the second one though.


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## LoveGus (Oct 4, 2016)

Looking on finger lakes today the dark bay is definitely out. She had a recent bone chip.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

LoveGus said:


> His pick I'm not a huge fan of the shoulder or the look in his eye. Description said hes a spirited fellow but still. Hopefully this works my computrr is being odd


There's something really weird here but I can't quite place it.

Overall not horrid, may be worth looking at.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

She has nice balance, nice long under line ans short back, but her legs have major problems
Both front legs are fine boned, off set at the knees, and the right one has a twist at the fetlock level
She is also tied in, behind the knees.
I don't event, but can't see any horse standing up to strenuous athletic work, with legs like that. Did not comment further, as those front legs alone would kill the deal for me


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Smilie said:


> She has nice balance, nice long under line ans short back, but her legs have major problems
> Both front legs are fine boned, off set at the knees, and the right one has a twist at the fetlock level
> She is also tied in, behind the knees.
> I don't event, but can't see any horse standing up to strenuous athletic work, with legs like that. Did not comment further, as those front legs alone would kill the deal for me


Smilie are you refering to the first page horse? We all agreed with you and the OP advised her friend to pass.


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## LoveGus (Oct 4, 2016)

I havent liked many coming up for him. Most havent looked like there was a big motor behind them. My friend showed me this guy. Comment says 1200 unraced 3 year old. I didn't catch any thing major with him besides what looks like a really upright shoulder. Only pic so far.


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## LoveGus (Oct 4, 2016)

Baystone | Horse Listing | CANTER USA

I like this guy. His build and the kind eye.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

The brown looks nicely balanced but fat. That neck makes me think he may be a stud as well. Not amazing but not horrible, worth looking at if he likes him. Typical TB- feet need work, super long pasterns (esp in front) and don't love the legs but not horrid. The front pasterns are the only real concern for me and it's common in TBs and not usually an issue. Idk, he's just "ok" to me, not bad but not impressive imo.

Baystone I LOVE!! Looks like the hind end is his weak point and pics are (intentionally?) angled so you can't see well. Looks like he is super long and fine boned behind and "no motor" as you said, but pics are lousy overall. Other then that he LOOKS real nice (the pics...) and I also love his "eye". I would go see this horse myself if I were looking...he speaks to me lol. Definitely some concerns but with a thorough PPE I would consider him. For eventing temperment is a huge part of it and no horse is perfect conformationally. I would definitely go see him-AFTER asking for better pics (parallel to the horse). I didn't watch the videos....who bothers to post that?? If he is as fine boned as he hints at sometimes I may pass but otherwise would really consider him. Is your friend looking for a 10 year old?

Oh, and also horrid feet, but I think that's almost a given lol! I think with a proper trim/shoe job he'd be fine.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Yogiwick said:


> Baystone I LOVE!! Looks like the hind end is his weak point and pics are (intentionally?) angled so you can't see well. Looks like he is super long and fine boned behind and "no motor" as you said, but pics are lousy overall. Other then that he LOOKS real nice (the pics...) and I also love his "eye".


I'd take my chances with Baystone too, if he passed a vet check. I don't even think his hind end is weak, I think he just has a really nice shoulder. I also think with just a little work he'd probably have better hooves than most TBs. If he just has an old splint and it's fairly small, I wouldn't worry about that much.


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

I love Baystone! I also love that he's got the same owner/trainer/breeder, who is actually a really respectable older guy. Bourke will definitely be able to give you any and all information about this horse. Bred and owned the dam too. That is a REALLY sound and tough family, top and bottom. I'd do a PPE and take a chance on him.


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