# Truck & Trailer advise



## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

I had that truck and engine, It couldnt get out of its own way with a 2800lb trailer and two horses. My personal opinion is with that truck you are about maxed out where you are at. My F150 FX4 5.4HO with 4.10 gears max tow package did fine with a 3200 lb aluminum gooseneck and two horses with gear, I would say maxed I pulled was 6k I originally speced it out to pull one horse and have a stall for gear, but that engine has nearly 100 more horsepower than your 4.6, plus the lower granny gear rearend. However after recent experiences with the 5.4 I wouldnt wish it on anyone, pretty insulting that I am a marine engineer but need to tow it to the shop to get spark plugs changed because they tend to break off inside the engine, ford has known this for years and did nothing to correct it, the engines also have a habit of breaking exhaust manifold nuts off in the block. Everything on it was nearly impossible to work on, so I traded it for a 2006 dodge cummings turbo diesel. ALthough I can see a lower overall quality in build, they thing is wide open and so easy to work on.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Hay Joe, I was hoping you'd respond because you know alot about engines/towing capacity. 

What kind of trailer did you have? I see so many trailers now with pointed noses, instead of the old square fronts, I just wondered if they towed easier.

I used to have a Dodge Ramcharger (PofST) and a 2000 lb stock trailer, I could load up 4 horses in it and pull it ok for a few years, but as the truck aged it couldn't haul it so I bought the Brenderup. Then I only had one horse, so it worked fine. The stupid Ramcharger swayed more by itself than with the trailer. I am nervous of a Dodge...

The trailer dealers keep telling me my truck will be fine hauling 3000 lbs, but I don't believe it. I can't get good info from truck dealers either!

What about a van? That would give me a place to sleep too...


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

My truck's differencial is 3.55 according to the sticker the axle code is 19.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

yeh that was what I had in my 4.6 truck, that engine makes a good zippy mustang engine, not ideal for a towing rig. Yep as you have seen seems like Ford trucks are better built everrywhere but the engines, But man Dodges seem to be ruling the roost under the hoods for quite some time. 
Yeh truck and trailer dealers are just that, they wanna sell you what they have. When I was fed up up with my 4.6 a truck dealer tried to sell me on the 4.6 HO as it had more horse power yadda yadda, yeh Bullcrap, it only had more horsepower because ford raised the redline, who drives around with an engine at 5500 rpm ? You also have to pay real good attention to those lightweight stock trailers. Legally "Stock" can mean anything, so I could build a stock trailer that will physically fit 4 horses, yet only put 3500 lb axles on them. Thats why actual horse trailers take a big jump in weight between a 2 horse and a 3 horse. They get much heavier axle and suspensions at that point. While a horse trailer has legal requirements. If a manufacturer sells a 4 horse trailer rest assured it must be designed to safely haul 4 horses. A stock trailer with room for 4 horses with nothing in the specs that mentions horses has no legal minimum weight rating. 
So make sure it is rated to pull what you want to put in it, It must be on the trailer data tag.
Yep your truck would be fine at 3000 lbs, but 3000lbs is empty weight. not loaded. Now if you add an electric brake controller, uses some common sense towing, and stay out of the mountains you could probably safely tow 6000 lbs, but ud be putting a heck of a load on that engine and sucking fuel like there's no tommorrow, not to mention your exhaust temps gonna shoot up, so be ready for exhaust gasket leaks. 

sorry but not really any good solution for you, other than make two trips or move up to a 3/4 ton and a bigger engine.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Yeah, that is what I thought. It already sucks fuel, I only get 10 miles to the gallon towing now. 

The stock trailers do have the 3500 axles, some of the 3 horse trailer do too. Some have the 5000 lb axles. And yes, I have noticed it makes a huge difference in weight, but I wasn't thinking it wouldn't be safe with the 3500 lb ones. 

i must not have been thinking straight! I sure don't want the axles cracking on a new trailer! I had a friend who that happened to on a 5 yr old Sundowner two horse straight load. She drives it alot, with a 17+ hand horse or two, but still was scary and shouldn't have happened. Sundowner replaced them, but she wound up buying a new trailer anyway. 

The P of Sh Dodge I had was in the shop so many times I am not sure I could trust another one. 

I either want a bigger truck and a gooseneck, or another bumper pull and maybe a van? I have seen some used vans fairly inexpensive that seem like they might have big enough engines on EBay. 

What about a Chevy Van? I have had good luck with Chevy cars, don't know about the trucks, I have always liked Ford trucks, but maybe I can change.

I have been sleeping in one of the trailer stalls on a cot when I am out overnight & I would rather have something better to sleep in.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

PS - I am in the mountains, can't avoid them and I need enough power for them. Plus I drive thru Atlanta several times a year - six lanes in one direction and folks driving like idiots, I need to be able to stop & go easily. 

Just driving up I- 75 to Kentucky to get my Rocky I had some problems because I bought some bad gas. Was fine on the way back, but it worried me and I drove a little slower, max 65 per hr. The semi trucks about ran me over.


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## mind (Dec 14, 2011)

AnitaAnne said:


> Yeah, that is what I thought. It already sucks fuel, I only get 10 miles to the gallon towing now.
> 
> The stock trailers do have the 3500 axles, some of the 3 horse trailer do too. Some have the 5000 lb axles. And yes, I have noticed it makes a huge difference in weight, but I wasn't thinking it wouldn't be safe with the 3500 lb ones.
> 
> ...


If I had a choice of truck from any of the three manufacturers and towing a heavy load was a priority, I would choose a Chevy. A 3/4 ton+ 06/07 Duramax/Allison, to be precise. Although Dodge is the leader engine wise with the Cummins, which is an absolutely outstanding engine, the transmissions haven't be great in my personal experience. The Duramax engine is very good overall, and the Allison trans is the best in any truck out there, and that tips the scales for me. The 01-04 Duramax/Allison has injector issues, so if you can afford the later generation that's great, but those are the only significant issue I know of on those years so it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. 

Both my Ford trucks needed repairs fairly often, I'm no longer a fan. 

I know some of the various manufacturers full size vans have had similar suspensions to trucks, but I don't know much about them overall. I've slept in a pick up bed with a canopy quite comfortably many times.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

mind said:


> If I had a choice of truck from any of the three manufacturers and towing a heavy load was a priority, I would choose a Chevy. A 3/4 ton+ 06/07 Duramax/Allison, to be precise. Although Dodge is the leader engine wise with the Cummins, which is an absolutely outstanding engine, the transmissions haven't be great in my personal experience. The Duramax engine is very good overall, and the Allison trans is the best in any truck out there, and that tips the scales for me. The 01-04 Duramax/Allison has injector issues, so if you can afford the later generation that's great, but those are the only significant issue I know of on those years so it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.
> 
> Both my Ford trucks needed repairs fairly often, I'm no longer a fan.
> 
> I know some of the various manufacturers full size vans have had similar suspensions to trucks, but I don't know much about them overall. I've slept in a pick up bed with a canopy quite comfortably many times.


Thanks for the input. I hate to sound dumb, but is that engine a gas burner or deisel? 

I have a truck tent for the bed of my truck, but it gets really hot in there. Plus can't carry anything in it, so it has to be all set up each time. 

I have two friends with vans with bumper pulls, one a conversion the other a 13 passenger with a few seats pulled out. I am liking the idea of loading it up with gear and leaving it in there. But I sure like the way a gooseneck pulls, and the bed could stay in there too.


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## mind (Dec 14, 2011)

Duramaxes are diesel burners.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

I can only speak of the early 2000 late 90, Chevy 2500 diesels, really total crap trucks, very cheap made. The newer ones seem ok, though. Ford has really let me down with the 6.0/6.4 diesels and the 5.4. Love the trucks but the engines are lacking reliability. Dodge had tranny issues for years but I went with an 06, tranny rating was way up, and pre new emmission controls. 

I dont think I would think too fondly of a so called 3 horse trailer with 3500lb axles. Is that even legal ? Think about it, 3500 lbs of trailer, plus 3 horses, plus tack ? maybe some water ? your overloading. I thought all 3 horse trailers had to come with minumum 5000lb axles. 

Vans come in all shapes and sizes. You can get some pretty heavy duty rigs. The van at work is a 3/4 ton with a diesel, pretty sure they are rated like trucks, IE, F150 F250,,,, ford vans are E150 E250 E350, I imagine they have similar tow ratings. I think if I could go back in time I woulda bought a E250 and kept my bumper pull, and fixed up the van as a sleeper. One driver could stretch out and get real sleep on the road.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

I can't afford anything new on a nurse's salary with a house, teens + horses to support. 

If I have to get a different truck and trailer, I am going to be looking at OLD ones or a salvage title deal. I have a friend whose husband has a body shop, so a salvage title could be ok. 

It was the transmission that went out on my Dodge TWICE and didn't even get 100,000 miles on it. The Ford I bought with 5 miles on it, and have never *knock on wood* had a single problem with it 150,000 miles later and I don't want to ruin it now by overloading it.

I don't know a thing about the Chevy trucks, I know several folks hauling with Avalances, but I don't know the engine options they are using.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

I thought maybe a used van would be less likely to have been overloaded than a used truck, especially a diesel because most people haul with a truck and may not care if they burn it up. 

I over-sized my truck with the Brenderup because it can be hauled by 6 cylinder engines and in Europe they are pulled by cars.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

not sure aboout used heavy duty vans, but I would expect a small used market. While lots of people buy trucks with big engines then use them only to drive around and look cool I would expect 3/4 and one ton used vans are being sold by commercial and state agencies. These vehicles may have low miles but were driven by people not paying for gas and as such you see them idleing for days, just pay the bit of change for a compression test if you get one. My truck was government owned low mileage auction, sure you could find something similar. I had good service from Ford trucks as well had a 94, 2000, 2004 and 2007 all had over 200,000 on them with lots of towing, never had a bit of problem till this last one with the 5.4. ,
see if you got rid of the teens you could sell the house, get you a nice prefab one bedroom cabin on about 20 acres, have plenty of room for the horses and whatever truck you wanted.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Ok, I'm still up for a bit...the teens will eventually move out but I will still need room for the dogs! I like the 20 acre idea, but 100 would be better so I wouldn't have to see my neighbors...plus more room for horses.

Ok, a compression test to check for leaks? In the cooling system or transmission? 

I saw several used vans on EBay, some least vehicles and some conversion vans. A few handicap ones, but those were pricey and I couldn't think of a reason to keep the lift on one! LOL


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

no the compression test is for the engine, you are measuring actual wear on the engine internals. Sometimes commercial and gov engines sit there and idle for ever running heat or AC, so mileage may not be a good indicator of engine wear. 
Shop near me will do a pre purchase exam for $100 which includes an engine compression test, among lots of other common things. FInd a small indepent shop and tell em you would like to get a prepurchase exam done on a truck you are thinking of buying and ask what it would cost.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

Joe's right about the 5.4. My co-worker just spend $3500 getting a plug change. One broke off, the extraction tool wouldn't work, and they would up having to pull the engine to get the head off.

How much are you wanting to spend on a truck?

I bought a 99 f-350 dual rear wheel, crew cab, 4x4 with a 7.3 liter diesel last September for $10,000, and have put another $4,000 into it but now have a darn nice tow vehicle. 

So, we were looking at fords (they didn't take the money), between 1999 and 2003 with the 7.3......

GM, after the bailout, will never get a dime of my money.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

I would have a come-apart if I was charged $3500 to change some plugs!!!


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

my spark plug job cost me $600, My GF's cost her $800. And like I said I am a marine engineer and tend to do my own maintenance. What is really bad is it is so common the sho has an exact chart on what to charge you based on how many they break, And Napa sells a Ford 5.4 liter engine spark plug removal tool. Probably would work ok if the engine wasnt in the dashbored. Sorry to be slamming FOrd, but geeze Loiuse MY NAME IS JOE FORD ! I am related to the owners and paid for my barn making a killing on ford stock. And I am driving a frikking dodge. That being said my search criteria included a 2003 7.3 Ford, or a 2006 cummings dodge.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

AnitaAnne said:


> I would have a come-apart if I was charged $3500 to change some plugs!!!


Well, it happens somewhat frequently with the first few years of 5.4's......

His vehicle had a bad coil and he decided to take it to the shop and let them change the plugs at the same time. In his case, they couldn't get the head off with the engine in the vehicle. (Ford Excursion).

You can read about the problem here:

2006 Ford F-150 Spark Plugs Break Off In Head | CarComplaints.com

Or, google it.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Joe4d said:


> my spark plug job cost me $600, My GF's cost her $800. And like I said I am a marine engineer and tend to do my own maintenance. What is really bad is it is so common the sho has an exact chart on what to charge you based on how many they break, And Napa sells a Ford 5.4 liter engine spark plug removal tool. Probably would work ok if the engine wasnt in the dashbored. Sorry to be slamming FOrd, but geeze Loiuse MY NAME IS JOE FORD ! I am related to the owners and paid for my barn making a killing on ford stock. And I am driving a frikking dodge. That being said my search criteria included a 2003 7.3 Ford, or a 2006 cummings dodge.


Holy Toledo! That is rough, don't be driving the Dodge to family reunions...


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

So, all this is making me very concerned about buying anything. It seeems like it is a crap shoot anymore to get a decent vehicle, even though they cost a fortune new. I was very fortunate with my truck it seems, and I don't want to mess that up. Of course, it may be ready to be replaced anyway, which is another reason I was searching. 

I may just have to make two trips with my Brenderup or find someone to carry a horse. I still like the idea of a van the best, cause I could use it on trips. 

Anyway, time to go to work.


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

Ford isn't the only one that's made spark plugs hard to change. My dad used to have an International Scout that required dropping or pulling the engine just to reach the back two plugs. A co-worker was given a Pontiac (don't recall which) that required rotating the transverse V6 to change the entire back bank.

What Ford does do better than anyone else is deny for year or even decades there is a problem and refuses to fix it. Fixing a problem is admitting you had a problem to begin with and just might open them up for lawsuits. So they believe it's better to put their collective heads in the sand and go Lalalalalalalala.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

Percentage wise, it's pretty low.

I really like a diesel for a lot of reasons, one of them being no spark plugs.

I think if you were to talk to my wife about her F350, she'd tell you she loves it and would be hard pressed to sell it.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Just a quick update, it took me a while, but I finally was able to find a van that fit most of my requirements...esp my budget...

I purchased a 1999 Chevy E3500 conversion van with a 7.4 gas burner. It was a 1 owner vehicle with 167k miles and already set up to tow with hitch and brake controller. It does have a bench seat that converts to a bed, but is not a camper. I plan to pull out the middle seats and add at least an electrical hook-up so I can have some heat/air but not until after my teens move out. Right now, although it sucks gas badly, it pulls my Brenderup easily and manuvers great. The bed is comfy, but needs better airflow to be comfortable when it's hot out! 

I'm not buying the 3 horse slant as of now, because my 17 yr old has pretty much stopped riding for the time being, so I only need space for two

Overall I am pleased with the van, it is clean and in great condition.


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