# Feet slip back in the stirrups while trotting and squeezing



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

turkishdelight said:


> Hi
> I'm having a bit of an issue with my posting trot. My feet constantly slip back to the heel. I think it's probably because I'm gripping with my knees, but I don't really understand how else I should grip. Gripping with my thighs takes too much weight out of my stirrups, as does gripping with my calves.
> My feet also slip out when I signal for the horse to trot.
> How can I better visualize the correct way of positioning my legs?


not 


NOt sure I get this. "slip back to your heel"? do you mean your toe goes further into the stirrup iron, and the stirrup goes from the ball of your foot, to bump against the heel of your riding boots? (thank God for boot heels!)

your stirrup may be too long, #1.

as for how to think aobut it. . .. .think about it as standing. think about it as your heel , and foot, going down toward the ground, as if you could stand up from the ground. lift your toe , from time to time, to see if your heel and foot won't sink down a little on their own.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi, agree with Tiny & I'm thinking you mean your toes slip forward & down? I think gripping with your knees is part of it. Rather than squeezing, try to just 'hug' your horse with your legs lightly. Let them be under you where they'd be if you were balanced with your feet on the ground in a slight squat. Like that & with relaxed legs, your centre of balance is lower, so going with the horse becomes easier.

People like different stirrup lengths, & I personally like them long enough that my legs are where they'd be without, but toes level with heels, or slightly above. 

And rising to the trot is not about standing up in the stirrups so much as allowing the horse's pace to push you up, & staying there for a step.

Then there's saddle balance. I reckon in some saddles, it doesn't matter how well you ride, because the saddle imbalances you, stirrup bars too far forward or such...


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

turkishdelight said:


> ...I think it's probably because I'm gripping with my knees, but I don't really understand how else I should grip. Gripping with my thighs takes too much weight out of my stirrups, as does gripping with my calves...


Don't grip. There is no need to grip anywhere with your legs while posting. Let your weight flow down around the horse, uninterrupted, into the heel. If need be, think of pulling your knees away from the horse so the weight doesn't get caught there.

Stay close to the saddle. There is nothing magical about posting way above the saddle. For getting weight off the horse's back, it doesn't matter if it is 1/2" or 6". Either will do, but 1/2" is easier to do well.

Assuming a forward seat, since you want weight in your stirrups, lean forward more. If your center of gravity is behind the stirrups, they you need to go up AND thrust forward. That is bad riding, at least for a forward seat. You should be leaning far enough forward that you simply unfold to raise your seat slightly out of the saddle, and then fold it a little to put some weight back in the saddle, without ever changing your balance point.

That is why two point is so helpful. When posting, you keep the two point balance and simply fold and unfold in rhythm. But your balance does not change from two point:










Riding And Schooling Horses: Harry D. Chamberlin, John Cudahy, Edwin M. Sumner: 9781163173299: Amazon.com: Books

If dressage is your preference, ignore everything I wrote.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

bsms said:


> If dressage is your preference, ignore everything I wrote.


Because if dressage is your preference you will learn to do it properly?

I am struggling to understand why you would be telling someone to think about pulling their knees away from the saddle, very dangerous thing to be preaching online, because all you will do is increase the amount of tension here. From the description we should be trying to eliminate any of stress of or strain, this rider I think needs softness, and flow.

:rofl: But we are actually all guessing, because the OP is not very clear what the issue actually is, so we are building a picture from what we understand, actually clarifying what is going on maybe a more productive start.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Golden Horse said:


> Because if dressage is your preference you will learn to do it properly?
> 
> I am struggling to understand why you would be telling someone to think about pulling their knees away from the saddle, very dangerous thing to be preaching online, because all you will do is increase the amount of tension here...


Well, if you think a forward seat is bad riding, then you probably ought to study dressage to learn "good" riding. I take a somewhat broader view.

There is nothing dangerous about trying to pull your knees away from the saddle. It is virtually impossible to do to any significant amount, but someone who grips with their knees needs to think about SOMETHING to stop gripping with the knees and allow the weight to flow down into the heels. I've been there, fought to not grip with my knees, and eventually managed to stop gripping - and I did it by thinking of pulling my knees away from the saddle anytime I notice myself gripping. When you stop gripping, your balance develops.

There is a style of forward riding that does grip with the knees. It was taught at the Italian cavalry school and works well for some horses and riders. Littauer and Chamberlin both give reasonable explanations for why they rejected that style for most riders. If someone is concerned about their feet doing funky things in the stirrups when posting, they probably don't follow that school and deliberately grip with their knees - particularly if they are concerned, as the OP is, about getting "_too much weight out of my stirrups_".

I said anyone who wants to do dressage should ignore what I wrote because the forward school of riding differs from the dressage school, and I haven't tried dressage. I have used a forward seat, sometimes badly, and learned a lot about doing it right from authors like Littauer and Chamberlin. That is why I cited a passage from Chamberlin that I found particularly helpful.

turkishdelight has also posted a thread on "Using English saddle after six years of [Australian] Stock saddle" - and I spent the first 5 years of my riding alternating between English and Australian saddles. So I have had some experience that applies to turkishdelight's concerns. But if what I posted doesn't help, she is welcome to reject it - no hard feelings. I found nothing helpful in Sally Swift's "Centered Riding", yet I know it has helped thousands of riders. What helps one person may not help another...that is just the way it is.


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## turkishdelight (Aug 2, 2014)

What on earth did I write in my description? Looks like starting new topics while I'm having an allergic reaction isn't the best idea.
Anyway, what I meant is that my boot slips back in the stirrups, so instead of having the stirrup on the ball of my feet it's more like mid foot - the only thing stopping my foot from going through is the heel.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

There are several possibilities:

You may be pointing down with your toe to keep from losing the stirrup. That can happen with your stirrups are too long. It can also happen with some styles of stirrups. I've used smooth, bare metal stirrups with leather soled boots and felt like my stirrups were constantly slipping.

It also happens when you have weight in your toe instead of heel. You might try thinking about toes up instead of heels down. Riding around in two point at a walk and jog is also good for getting a feel of weight going into your heel.

If you are used to a saddle with the stirrups hung well forward, as some Australian stock saddles are, then the tendency is to post like my daughter used to do on Trooper in a too big western saddle:










Because her feet were well forward in the 16 inch saddle, she couldn't get up and get her center of gravity above the stirrups without pulling her stirrups back as she shoved and pulled herself forward. When she pulled the stirrup back, it put her toe down and deeper into the stirrup. 

There are two ways of getting your center of gravity over the stirrups - lean forward with the upper body, or have your heels under your hip. It depends on the saddle and what you want to do. My Australian-style saddle had my heels under my belt buckle, but not all do.

That advice reflects my experience, which may not be yours. Good luck!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

turkishdelight said:


> What on earth did I write in my description? Looks like starting new topics while I'm having an allergic reaction isn't the best idea.
> Anyway, what I meant is that my boot slips back in the stirrups, so instead of having the stirrup on the ball of my feet it's more like mid foot - the only thing stopping my foot from going through is the heel.



So, my guess was right. and , thank God for boot heels!

yes, since you are gripping with your thigh ,possible knee, so the weigh is stopping there. Then, in order to lever yourself up and down inthe posting trot, you end up needing a bit more grip, you then "grip up" with your heel. upward grip of heel means downward point of toe, and stirrup bar can slide along the foot to the heel stop.

Or, another possiblility is that you may actually have your knee off already, infact, off too much. if when you are trotting, posting, there is a "window" visible behind your knee that a watcher from the ground can see, then you are taking your knee off TOO much, which can make you end up gripping even more with your calf. 

think of the contact being on as much of your leg as possible. as much from crotch to about mid calf, where your leg will fall away from the horse if you allow your leg to hang like dead meat. so, there is no "point" from which you pinch and pivot. 
now, lift up your toes and you should feel your whole leg drop down a bit. hold that position for a bit. that sort of total leg feel is what you want when posting.

can you post a video?


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## Lia and Midnight (Sep 22, 2014)

I used to have this problem when posting, and alot of it probably does come from gripping with your knees. when you grip their you legs move up and take the weight out of your stirrups. you shouldn't really need to consciously grip at the posting trot. Try to keep your weight down in your heels, if your new to posting, you could hold onto the pommel, as long as your in an enclosed space, until you get your balance. also standing up in the saddle at a halt is a great way to improve your posting position.


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

turkishdelight said:


> Hi
> I'm having a bit of an issue with my posting trot. My feet constantly slip back to the heel. I think it's probably because I'm gripping with my knees, but I don't really understand how else I should grip. Gripping with my thighs takes too much weight out of my stirrups, as does gripping with my calves.
> My feet also slip out when I signal for the horse to trot.
> How can I better visualize the correct way of positioning my legs?


When posting, your weight should be centered over your stirrups. Gripping with the legs is counterproductive. It stops the effect of gravity pulling your weight downward. If you are relaxed and gravity is doing its job, the stirrup supports the ball of your foot giving you a firm position on the stirrup. At the same time, gravity is still pulling your heel lower if your muscles are relaxed. Again, if your muscles are relaxed, the shape of the horse will stabilize your leg position against your horse without squeezing.

Then, just let the motion of your horse lift your seat from the saddle. Depending on the speed of the horse, you might draw your hips forward as you rise to stay in balance. Then simply control the downward motion of your seat so you don't plop down onto your horse's back. If your horse's action is not too great and your stirrups are long enough, your seat need not rise very high.


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