# Speechless at Ebay seller response to a message



## Tracer

Argh, annoying much?

You gotta love people that argue with petty comments. If it were me, I'd throw the darn thing at her head.

How much did you pay, may I ask?


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## Shoebox

Ugh. I've been on the other end of that - I sold a used saddle pad. Described as used, worn but still plenty of life left. Included 6 pictures or so and offered more if they wanted any. 

I got a message back that the saddle pad was not as described. How, I asked? What is the problem with it? And the answer: It's not in show condition.

I didn't even know what to do. I NEVER said it was, it was advertised as used, the pictures showed the wear to it. So, even though my listing said no refunds, I offered a full refund if they would ship it back. They REFUSED! They said the cost of shipping was too much and wanted a partial refund of $50, which would mean I got zero profits (Shipping was more than expected...) and they would get it essentially free. Needless to say I said no. They opened a dispute, where I again offered a refund WITH the return of the item. This time though PayPal said they could accept it or move on and they sent one last huffy message and refused (also claimed the closest post office was over 45 minutes away).

THIS, however ^^^ is beyond atrocious! I would be giving them some negative feedback for sure. PayPal should help you out, they're pretty good about that. I can't even believe someone would act like that! And the fact that she's found you on facebook?! Talk about creepy! I guess let that be a lesson - pay attention to feedback scores!


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## Chevaux

A hug to you Aussiemom from me and sorry but I'm laughing now - not at you but at the seller's sorry attempt to deflect from the real problem of either being ignorant or deceiptful and getting caught at it. Stay the course with this one and, by the way, is she on facebook?


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## amp23

Wow, I don't even know what to say. I would be so peeved!! Keep us updated on what happens...

I've never had issues buying thins on ebay but this last week I sold my saddle on it, but the buyer hadn't paid 3.5 days later, so after the invoice and 2 emails to them with no response, I opened an Unpaid Case. They paid within 12 hours of me opening it. Like really? What's gotten into people being so disrespectful and hard to deal with online now?


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

Wow, that's pretty unreal! 

Here's my deal that I'm kind of holding my breath on: 

Bought an item, paid immediately and Paypal sent me the message about having asked the shipper to ship. I didn't hear anything further for a week, so sent an e-mail to confirm if it had been shipped. Got a note from e-bay that the item had been shipped, and saw that it had been shipped CHINA POST. The item I bought was listed as being here in the US or I would not have bought it, I don't do overseas trades. I'm waiting for either the time to elapse for a case to be opened or to see if the item arrives and if it's what I ordered. I'm feeling at least a little defrauded because it appears the item is coming from China, not the US. We'll see if I ever get it or get a refund if I don't. Starting to really wonder about doing anymore trading on e-bay.


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## DuckDodgers

OMG that's so awful that it's hilarious! I don't know if I would have laughed or scratched my head at that message! 

Either way, that rude and awful message can work towards your advantage if you need it to. Had she made any effort to explain herself or make things right it probably would have gone a long way, but I'm sure all this did was make you more ticked off about the situation!


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## Golden Horse

WOW, what a errr lady dog, can't believe that anyone would send that. Hope that you get this sorted out,jeez, some people.


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## Faye83

All I can say is wow. Thank you for making up my mind whether or not to buy a saddle off of Ebay! I cannot believe that someone would be so rude! I dont even know how I would respond to that?! I think after some thought I would have gone through the same steps as you are. You handled that very well!


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## franknbeans

Well-good luck. It takes a long time in many cases for these issues to be resolved. I sold a saddle last year that the lady (after having it a week) decided it was "not as described". I do not accept returns, and she said it was the wrong size. After WEEKS of not being able to even pay for a $1 item via Paypal because of this case against me…and if I used Paypal at all, they would take $3K and refund her, which I refused to do……I finally called eBay. That was the ONLY way I got resolution, and the case was decided in my favor, based on the pictures I provided. I had meticulous pictures, since people describe and lea sure things differently, and I wanted nothing open to question. Thank goodness I was this careful. So-again-good luck, but if she posted pics of the measurement, saddle, etc, some of your points may be mute. Just depends, but most of the time they decide for the buyer.


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## tlkng1

As Frank says...ignore the seller and go through eBay for resolution. The seller has the obligation to present the item correctly and I won't even go into that response. Unfortunately eBay has gone into serious seller protection in that you can't leave negative feedback on a seller..only neutral or positive. AS for the actual comment, I know riders who are stick thin that ride in 17-187 inch saddles because they have legs that go on forever and they need the larger size so their knees aren't over the flaps.

The fact the saddle was presented as a 17.5 and was actually a 17, as well as the difference between an adjustable and unadjustable gullet alone means the seller didn't present the item properly and would be a void sale in the eyes of eBay. If she wishes to continue selling on eBay she better be careful as due to issues like this, where she obviously just wanted the saddle gone and didn't care about the honesty policy, she can be blocked from further selling.


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## jaydee

Its very sad but the internet is full of these sick sorry individuals who get some sort of a kick out of insulting people from behind their computer screens
Its just another form of bullying
All you can do is complain but as it wasn't threatening there's not a lot that can be done to remove them - though a bit creepy that they refer to your FB page.


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## JustPickOne

I quit using ebay a long time ago. When they forced you to use paypal. One giant, circuitous cluster buck. No thanks.


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## kitten_Val

Wow, simply wow! About both - the description and the response. I'm very sorry you have to deal with all this crap!

And I have to add I'm amazed you still can laugh... Hope you'll sort it out quickly!

P.S. And leave the worst possible feedback for that rude POS of the seller.


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## smr

keep us updated on how this turns out. I sell a lot on Craigslist and had this happen to me one day.

I was selling some hay I didn't have room for in my barn. I live in western Ky and this guy lives in Illionis. He was driving 3 hours so I told him that it was just grass hay, nothing special. $3.00 a bale. (I actually advertised it as cow hay). He drove down, looked it over and bought everything I had. We barley got it on his trailer and in the back of his truck. then he calls me the next day and complains about the hay. he actually wanted me to send him his money back. I told him I would gladly refund his money if he would return the hay...never heard from him again.


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## Clydesdale lover

Open a case on ebay stating item not as desceibed at all, used and faulty and seller has been very rude with threatening behaviour and state what you want doing about it. Ie send it back, get full refund, paet refund etc. The seller has 24 hours to respond. If no response you can take this further with ebay and ebay will claw your money back for you. I had this recently.


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## Corporal

Interesting rant but we've been buying on EBay since the 1990's and it's ALL about your individual rating. Just contact EBay and ask how to score this rude SOB. He'll find it much harder to sell things there after that. So sorry that you got taken for a "ride", so to speak. Most of us trust EBay for quality simply bc of the ratings. I'm the only one in my family who HASN'T bought and sold stuff there. My DH and 3 DD's all have excellent ratings.


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## frlsgirl

Yeah that's pretty awful. 

I recently had a very negative experience on Ebay as well, and turned it into PayPal resolution team - and they decided in my favor.

However, the guy ended up giving me a 0% rating which dropped my overall score down so far that I'm afraid no one will want to do business with me again.


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## Zexious

Wow, that is absolutely awful... What a crazy person ._. Keep us updated on what happens. I hope you get all your munnies back!


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## tlkng1

frlsgirl said:


> Yeah that's pretty awful.
> 
> I recently had a very negative experience on Ebay as well, and turned it into PayPal resolution team - and they decided in my favor.
> 
> However, the guy ended up giving me a 0% rating which dropped my overall score down so far that I'm afraid no one will want to do business with me again.


Fris...you can rebut the rating. Add an explanation to it; I've seen this a few times. Sellers have a lot more protection than buyers...eBay no longer allows negative ratings for sellers, only neutral or positive, but sellers can crucify buyers.

As someone else posted, it is pretty sad that people in this day and age are still so willing to take advantage of others and act like complete idiots rather than like functioning adults and working things out. Mistakes, miscommunication; stuff happens. Out and out lying; being nasty about it just makes the entire situation worse.


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## DuckDodgers

frlsgirl said:


> Yeah that's pretty awful.
> 
> I recently had a very negative experience on Ebay as well, and turned it into PayPal resolution team - and they decided in my favor.
> 
> However, the guy ended up giving me a 0% rating which dropped my overall score down so far that I'm afraid no one will want to do business with me again.


Can't you report the negative rating to them? Obviously if paypal and ebay decided in your favor then they believe your story instead of theirs. It makes sense that the person would be ticked off and give you a negative rating out of spite. You should be able to counteract that.


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## Cacowgirl

I've bought a few saddles on ebay-over the years. I do pay close attention to seller ratings, but I do look at the negatives-often it's newbies that don't understand the system. If there's a number of legitimate complaints-I simply don't buy from that seller. Now, I do notice there are more sellers from China & other countries-often you can spot it by reading the text-the English is very stilted. It's still a great place to find a deal, especially if living in a small town w/not very much available locally.


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## aussiemum

I havent read all your responses yet, but here is the latest response from her, after I started the paypal resolution centre case, with the same original message from my first post:

hi cow full refund your not going to keep it becose im coming to get ill be knocking on your *** door *** and im reporting you 4the state of the paddock your poor horses have to live in no *** grass and the fenceing *** dont know y someone would upload a photo on facebook i shared it with all my mates i shall see u in a couple of days

This woman is scary!! She is in another state to me so I dont really expect she's going to turn up on my doorstep, but just the same, I am keeping my door locked!
The reference to my horses having no grass, I assume is from pics on facebook, one of which is taken in a small round yard where I was riding (hence no grass) and some other photos do have areas of dry dirt, but its leading into warmer weather, and with 5 horses even in a large paddock, common areas get worn down as you would all know. As for the fences, there is one section that has barbed wire, but hardly a criminal offence, so good luck with that!

As she didnt actually respond through the paypal resolution case I had started, instead straight to my messages, I responded with:

I dont respond to threats and intimidation and baseless accusations. 
I am awaiting your response through the paypal resolution centre.

Stay tuned for more.......:shock:


(oops, after posting i realised the swear words shouldnt have been there, lucky they were automatically edited out!)


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## aussiemum

Have read all your replies, now, thanks 

Seems a few of us have been burned, either as buyer or seller.

One post asked if she had pics, which she did, but they were all a bit blurry, which I now think she probably did deliberately. But as someone else said, the fact the size was wrong and not adjustable gullet, which are not a subjective thing, is enough for it to be classified as "significantly not as described" which is what my case comes under.

Luckily she had already left feedback for me when she posted it, so I already have my positive feedback. I'm assuming that she cant take it back?

Just waiting, waiting for her next response.......
And obviously if she does want it sent back (assuming she was just being an idiot about coming to get it) she'll have to give me her address, so she has to respond with that at least.

Unfortunately this has really affected how i feel about using Ebay. As i've said, I have 228 ratings, which I assume means I've made 228 transactions, and apart from one other case a while ago this is the first real issue I've had - but boy is it a doozy!!!!


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## Chevaux

I think a chat with your local constabulary wouldn't be amiss here - it is likely nothing but a case of huff and puff but they should be in the know just in case.


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## kitten_Val

aussiemum said:


> Luckily she had already left feedback for me when she posted it, so I already have my positive feedback. I'm assuming that she cant take it back?


That part made me laugh. I bet this person was too happy to sell the (said) saddle. I'm not sure, but I don't remember any options to take feedback back. 

I did buy mostly (and sold just once or twice) on eBay. So far knock on wood, but.... Yeah, anyone can be burned!


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## aussiemum

I was thinking the same about letting police know, but didnt know if I was overreacting. I guess its not out of the question someone would drive interstate (over 8 hours) or fly over to come get the saddle, but you never know what brand of crazy someone is!


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## waresbear

OP, you knew you screwed up when you didn't check the buyer feed back BEFORE you buy. If you used Paypal and you can prove to them the item is not as listed, they get you your money back in a timely fashion. And what kind of a seller calls their buyers "cows"? Ones that are not intending on being in business that long I presume....


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## Shoebox

aussiemum said:


> I was thinking the same about letting police know, but didnt know if I was overreacting. I guess its not out of the question someone would drive interstate (over 8 hours) or fly over to come get the saddle, but you never know what brand of crazy someone is!


I wouldn't even hesitate to let them know. Keep a weapon handy just in case they come to your house and go all crazy. You don't know who this person is - you're having a complete stranger stalk you enough to figure out information about you and then say they are COMING TO YOUR HOUSE to get the saddle back. Lock up the horses. It might be an overreaction but it's better to be safe than sorry. 

Is the person far from you? I would have some mace by the door. Not kidding. I don't care if people would think it's silly to react that way, that person if being flat out creepy.

EDIT: Just read they're 8 hours away. That makes me feel a teensy bit better. I'd totally still be on edge. People can be messed up.


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## aussiemum

Shoebox said:


> I wouldn't even hesitate to let them know. Keep a weapon handy just in case they come to your house and go all crazy. You don't know who this person is - you're having a complete stranger stalk you enough to figure out information about you and then say they are COMING TO YOUR HOUSE to get the saddle back. Lock up the horses. It might be an overreaction but it's better to be safe than sorry.
> 
> Is the person far from you? I would have some mace by the door. Not kidding. I don't care if people would think it's silly to react that way, that person if being flat out creepy.
> 
> EDIT: Just read they're 8 hours away. That makes me feel a teensy bit better. I'd totally still be on edge. People can be messed up.


 
Luckily my horses arent at my property so I feel better about that. But yeah, still a bit nervous, cos as I said, you never know what kind of crazy people are!!

And to waresbear, yep, exactly. Live and learn :-(


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## aussiemum

And the latest gem:

u *** *** u can have your *** refund in full becose paypal have already have taken it in full and u can send it back. if u dont send im coming to get it. ill give u week. my paypal acc is in det $260 you have your *** money so send the *** saddle back now at your own expens u fat ugle ***.

Such a charming lady. Buyers beware of seller lealealea2011 on ebay. I am tempted to put her full name, but dont know if that's against any rules!

Oh, and still hasnt given me her address to send to.


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## DuckDodgers

Call the authorities in your city, and call the authorities where she lives. I would also set your facebook as private to anyone that is not a mutual friend (assuming that you don't have any mutual friends with her). What she has sent you is a threat. Whether or not she will act on it is a different question, but it's something that ebay, paypal, and the cops will definitely want and need to hear about. Once she hears that you have involved the cops she will hopefully straighten out her act.


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## DuckDodgers

aussiemum said:


> And the latest gem:
> 
> u *** *** u can have your *** refund in full becose paypal have already have taken it in full and u can send it back. if u dont send im coming to get it. ill give u week. my paypal acc is in det $260 you have your *** money so send the *** saddle back now at your own expens u fat ugle ***.
> 
> Such a charming lady. Buyers beware of seller lealealea2011 on ebay. I am tempted to put her full name, but dont know if that's against any rules!
> 
> Oh, and still hasnt given me her address to send to.


You can probably contact paypal or ebay to get her return address. Did the box have an address listed? Definitely get tracking info on this package just in case she "doesn't receive it". It wouldn't be so unreasonable to expect her to pay return shipping, but that's more effort and danger than it's worth.


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## aussiemum

DuckDodgers said:


> Call the authorities in your city, and call the authorities where she lives. I would also set your facebook as private to anyone that is not a mutual friend (assuming that you don't have any mutual friends with her). What she has sent you is a threat. Whether or not she will act on it is a different question, but it's something that ebay, paypal, and the cops will definitely want and need to hear about. Once she hears that you have involved the cops she will hopefully straighten out her act.


Yeah, thinking I might ring the police and see what they say. I have printed out all the messages so I cant lose them. I hope I have now set my facebook to friends only. So hard to tell sometimes, I think FB make it as hard as they can for you to restrict it. Seems you have to change so many different settings. Almost enough to put me off facebook (almost :wink


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## DuckDodgers

aussiemum said:


> Yeah, thinking I might ring the police and see what they say. I have printed out all the messages so I cant lose them. I hope I have now set my facebook to friends only. So hard to tell sometimes, I think FB make it as hard as they can for you to restrict it. Seems you have to change so many different settings. Almost enough to put me off facebook (almost :wink


When I've had trouble in the past I created a separate account not associated with any of my friends and messed around with the settings until that random person couldn't find it. Even once this mess is cleared up I'd still send the messages and your concerns to ebay and paypal to see what they have to say about keeping this girl as a participating member. What could have turned from a not as described item with a refund sent no problem turned to an awful mess.

For what it's worth, I don't think that this one experience should turn readers off of ebay forever. I've never bought and traded through the site, but I know of plenty of people that have receive amazing deals on products that they otherwise wouldn't have been able to afford. Just use caution while dealing with it, and check a seller's rating!!


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## aussiemum

DuckDodgers said:


> You can probably contact paypal or ebay to get her return address. Did the box have an address listed? Definitely get tracking info on this package just in case she "doesn't receive it". It *wouldn't be so unreasonable to expect her to pay return shipping, but that's more effort and danger than it's worth.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> Yeah, I have now escalated my claim and asked for money back and for her address to be provided as she wont give it to me. Will definately go for tracking even though it will cost more.


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## DuckDodgers

aussiemum said:


> DuckDodgers said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can probably contact paypal or ebay to get her return address. Did the box have an address listed? Definitely get tracking info on this package just in case she "doesn't receive it". It *wouldn't be so unreasonable to expect her to pay return shipping, but that's more effort and danger than it's worth.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> Yeah, I have now escalated my claim and asked for money back and for her address to be provided as she wont give it to me. Will definately go for tracking even though it will cost more.
> 
> 
> 
> Good. I don't know how the postage system is in Australia, but here it's only a dollar or two more for a tracking number. WELL worth it for piece of mind when dealing with this lady!
Click to expand...


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## aussiemum

And once I get my money back, think I'll go get myself a nice new saddle which I should have done to start with. Ok, will obviously cost more, but at least I'll know what i'm getting.


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## Chiilaa

What state is she from? There is an Aussie FB group that posts people who scam other horse people, if you want the group name you can PM me


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## xlntperuvian

> Yeah, I have now escalated my claim and asked for money back and for her address to be provided as she wont give it to me. Will definately go for tracking even though it will cost more.


I had a similar experience when I bought an electronic pressure cooker. It arrived dented and with a broken handle after being "packed" in a box far too big for it and with very little padding. When I contacted the seller for a refund I got a similar attitude. After I contacted Paypal/eBay the seller got furious and sent me nasty e-mails saying, "I hope it blows up in your face. I hope it scalds you to death." It's kind of unnerving to think there are people like that in the world and we walk right by them everyday. :shock:

My advice is to MAKE SURE that you pay attention to tracking and/or transaction numbers. To get your refund you have to give Paypal/eBay the tracking number you get from the post office or shipping company _when you send the saddle back_. You won't get a refund until the saddle is on its way back to the sender. And yes, it would be a good idea to suggest that this seller be banned. I can smell the crazy from here.


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## Prinella

To get a tracking no. It's $2.65. TAKE PHOTOS before you send it back. 
What sort of saddle were you looking at?

I prefer to use PayPal because of its buyer protection.


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## aussiemum

and amother one

so r u going to send it back? whats this *** that u would excped 1/2 for the refound and u get to keep the saddle is this how u rip me off .*** * send it back your just a skamming *** have a merry *** christmas u *** *** if u wont a brand new u have to pay the money. which isnt in your price level try speneding $500 *** head hill billy i just love your horse fencing

And I never asked for half of the cost back, if that is what she is saying. Some people just have no idea!!! Still hasnt responded with her address, but paypal have now given it to me, so I can send it back and be done with this crazy woman.


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## aussiemum

aussiemum said:


> and amother one
> 
> so r u going to send it back? whats this *** that u would excped 1/2 for the refound and u get to keep the saddle is this how u rip me off .*** * send it back your just a skamming *** have a merry *** christmas u tite *** *** if u wont a brand new u have to pay the money. which isnt in your price level try speneding $500 *** head hill billy i just love your horse fencing
> 
> And I never asked for half of the cost back, if that is what she is saying. Some people just have no idea!!! Still hasnt responded with her address, but paypal have now given it to me, so I can send it back and be done with this crazy woman.


 
And I am just DYING to send a reply making fun of her spelling, and being just as rude as her, and responding to her false claims about my horses - its actually the allegation that I'm not looking after my horses that gets me the most - but I wont stoop to her level.

Oh, and yes, you can clearly see by my avatar pic that my horses have 'no grass'. Pffft. (referring to one of her earlier allegations that my poor horse has no grass)


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## aussiemum

Prinella said:


> To get a tracking no. It's $2.65. TAKE PHOTOS before you send it back.
> What sort of saddle were you looking at?
> 
> I prefer to use PayPal because of its buyer protection.


 
Yeah, will definately get tracking. I just want this over with now, so I dont really care what it costs to be done with this woman.

I'm looking at getting a Wintec 500 or 2000.

And cases like this are EXACTLY why I use paypal too, especially for large amounts of money.


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## Prinella

I've always bought my saddles over eBay and NEVER encountered this, there are also a heap of local sites on fb, being local means you can go pick it up and hand over cash.


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## franknbeans

Shoot-I am ready to email this crazy woman! I know she can't get me in the states! Report to every possible authority-eBay, Paypal, police……and anyone else you can think of. She is NUTS!


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## faye

I've actualy sold a couple of saddles to Australia before and never had any problems. Mind you I described them properly, they were high end saddles and the postage costs a fortune.

I have a 17.5" Oakfield santana for sale if you are interested.

As for the lady, report her!
I know over here If you feel intimidated by something written or spoken then an offence has been committed. With the womans diatribe at you and her threats I'm sure the police would be very interested.
Actualy often just mention of reporting the threats to the police will have them backing off rapidly!


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## Tangiest Illicitness

Holy crazy! Before sending the saddle back you absolutely NEED to thoroughly document it -- every inch -- with pictures AND video to prove your point if eBay asks for the evidence, and also in case the seller damages the saddle when they get it back and tries to blame it on you. Also get tracking numbers and keep all documentation (emails, etc.) to send to eBay. They definitely need to know about her in case this happens to anyone else.


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## BaileyJo

Wow. Just wow. 

I hope she is banned from selling on eBay!


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## tinyliny

MOD NOTE:

As you can imagine, the forum rules prohibit using of curse words. We left the starred representatives for those words in the parts quoted from this unscrupulous seller, since they have a lot of bearing on this case. However, if you can post something and remove the ugly language, or completely "star" it out, all the better.


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## Kayella

Not only would I get a tracking number, I would make sure the package is "signature required". If her address is residential, they may leave it on her door step and it could be stolen, or she could say she never got it when she in fact did. Having her signature at time of delivery will help prevent that and it's only a few dollars more. I'd spend the few more dollars to prevent having to deal with this crazy lady any further.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CandyCanes

my response would have been the appropriate: 
If you ever speak to me like that again, I will find you and steal your soul. Have a nice day. 

hehehehe.


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## DuckDodgers

CandyCanes said:


> my response would have been the appropriate:
> If you ever speak to me like that again, I will find you and steal your soul. Have a nice day.
> 
> hehehehe.


That's a pretty amusing response, but with this lady I wouldn't want to issue the challenge :shock:


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## aussiemum

tinyliny said:


> MOD NOTE:
> 
> As you can imagine, the forum rules prohibit using of curse words. We left the starred representatives for those words in the parts quoted from this unscrupulous seller, since they have a lot of bearing on this case. However, if you can post something and remove the ugly language, or completely "star" it out, all the better.


 
I know, I''m so sorry i forgot a couple times. This has just freaked me out so much. Crazy lady.


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## Cacowgirl

So sorry you had such a bad experience-that certainly would have freaked me out! But, on the other hand-I just bought some "custom" chaps, the seller was great, but when the box came ( in 2 days!) I owed over $7 more in postage-something to do w/a "region". I let the seller know-didn't ask for anything, & she is going to refund the postage to me, just because. I really think there are more good sellers out there than the kind you just ran into. Hope you get the saddle you need-soon.


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## rhosroyalvelvet

I would say how you found that as an offensive comment with no reasoning behind it as you explained the faults that you had found that were not in the discription. That you are well with in your rights to return this under the sale of goods and supple of services act 1998 as it breeched the rule of not being as described. And also that due to this comment you will not be giving her a good review warning other consumers of her behaviour and that that comment has made it much more likely that you will return the saddle.


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## aussiemum

Well, saddle is now on its way back to her. I nearly died when I went to the post office and they said it would cost over $80 to send!! I queried why so much when she sent it to me for $23 and something cents, and they guy changed the way it was charged so I only had to pay the $23 too. Phew!!! Apparently they can charge in 'cubic metres' for large parcels, or just on weight, so he went on weight for the cheaper option. And yes, I got tracking, as that is what Paypal require anyway.

Thanks to someone's suggestion, I took a video of the saddle from all angles and kept the video running while I wrapped up the saddle to send, so I cant be accused of damaging the saddle between filming and packaging up. 

So glad to be rid of it, and hopefully her! Just have to wait for my money back now once paypal can check through the tracking number that its been delivered.


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## Golden Horse

Crossing fingers that you get your money back with no further issues. Thank goodness that the crazies are few and far between
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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