# Fair compensation?



## Acco (Oct 4, 2011)

I bring the horses in and feed one night per week and get $15 for it (so 4 nights a week means I get $60 off my board each month)

I think your trainer was actually over-compensating you - unlimited lessons is a heck of a deal! 

I think I only made $6.50 an hour at college and $7.50 an hour at a camp when I worked in those barns (like 6 years ago?)


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## DressageIsToDance (Jun 10, 2010)

How many horses are you caring for though? Basically, it takes me anywhere from 2-4 hours to feed, depending on what, if any, special requests my barn owner/trainer may have. It's a 20 stall barn.

I agree, it is an excellent deal either way. That's why I don't feel it's fair to be asking for 2 or 3 months of free board...but I am obviously owed _something_.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

3 lessons a week is really good compensation for feeding twice a week. Like Acco said, you were probably being overcompensated.

I volunteered to help feed at my barn, more so I could learn how to do it than for compensation and worked with the regular feeders a few times and fed on my own once or twice. There are 75 horses at my barn, and it takes about 4 hours to feed them all grain, hay and mash. Even doing that twice a week, I wouldn't expect $120/week of compensation.

For your situation, I'd definitely talk to the trainer about getting a discount on board until your horse is sound again, but I wouldn't expect an equivalent value to what you were getting for lessons. I think 1/3 of your board off would be the most I would expect.


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## BigGirlsRideWarmbloods (Mar 28, 2010)

You were def getting a screaming deal. 

I'm hiring a working student now that will muck out 3 stalls, feed (feed 3 horses hay & grain but also make up 3 hay nets for the morning), lightly groom, switch out blankets, fly spray, fly masks, sweep out the barn and grooming area, and compact manure with the tractor, 5 nights a week, (plus other duties durring showing season durring the high summer) in exchange for 1 lesson and 2 unsupervised rides.

I realize a show barn working student maybe different than your situation, but I would never expect to compensate any of my Working Students, mostly because its in their contracts as I only "hire" Working Students who want to keep their Amature Status. 

But also because if they did ask for financial compensation, I would let 'em go as I have a long list of girls who call, stop by or email about wanting the job and are willing to do it on my terms. 

Most of the barns I know of, do something similar simply because horses are expensive and there are kids (not just middle and high schoolers but college kids who have NO money) who are willing to do it for free just to be around horses. Last year I had a weekend girl who did everthing without lessons or riding time. She was scared to ride, and while the offer was always there, she really did just want to come out and groom the horses and actually offered to PAY ME for the privledge. I of course declined and offered to let her ride any time but all she really wanted was a "horsie fix".

To help compare, the lady next door pays an undocumented immigrant $20 a day for 4 horses but he does all of this in the AM & PM before and after his other job.


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## DressageIsToDance (Jun 10, 2010)

When i horse sit for other barns its usually $ 25 a feeding and that is with almost half the horses though at most. And many have an easier setup for turnout.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cakemom (Jul 4, 2010)

If I feed and turn out at the barn as well I get one $40 lesson. If I do all the stalls I get the same. Here's the way I see an unlimited deal...sometimes it's good for you, sometimes for her. Right now you are in a good for her slump. I'd ask to take lessons on a school horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Actually, it sounds like you owe her, so unless you want to ask for lessons on a school horse or quit feeding altogether and pay for your lessons when your horse is sound, I'd just keep feeding and hope for the horse to get better quickly. It's not her fault you don't want to learn on any horse but your own. If she has horses available and you're not taking advantage, it's on you. IMO of course!


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

As a businessman, you had an agreement (work for lessons). If you want to change it (work for boarding) feel free to discussed it with her, but don't try to make it retroactive...that's just not going to work in any business regardless of whether it may seem fair or not.


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## DressageIsToDance (Jun 10, 2010)

I don't feel I owe her, to be honest. SHE is the one that made the deal with me. If it's worth more than she has asked, that is not my issue. I have done my part.

I can learn on horses besides my own, but the point is, my focus has been training MY mare. The main reason I have been taking lessons with her is to improve my performance with my own horse. I really don't have much a choice of horses to ride, either. Her "school horses" are mostly small and medium ponies, because most of the teens and adults own horses. Pretty much all the horses she has are resales, and I can't think of one of them she would allow me to ride. I have asked, she has brushed it off.

As I've stated...I'm not trying to get the value of "unlimited lessons" off my board...but I don't think it's fair either that I am not compensated in at least some small way for my time when I haven't received my lessons due to my mare's lameness. I should not have to ride green horses for her that I have no real interest in riding, or forfeit having something in return for the work I've done.


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

I would have to feed every weekday night for a month just to earn one lesson. You've already gotten your time's worth by most barn's standards with the lessons you've already had.

She offered lessons for feeding. You don't want lessons (on other horses) and are still feeding. How is that her problem? If you want to quit the deal, tell her politely, but feeling entitled to cash value of anything when you're the one choosing not to take lessons you've earned is on you, not her.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Then engage in a mature conversation with her.

"Since my horse is on stall rest, would I be able to work off some of her board until she can be ridden again?"

You know?


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## DressageIsToDance (Jun 10, 2010)

I still don't get how you guys think what your trainers expect in work for your lessons means that I am not owed anything. That's like me saying that because I get unlimited lessons for my 2 days of feeding a week, then you are owed more lessons at your barn. Honestly I have never heard of working that much for that little. Maybe that's what you do wherever you are, but again...it really doesn't contribute to what I should do in my situation, because apparently things are valued differently in my barn.

And again, I am not looking for cash value (the worth of the unlimited lessons) here. I just want at least something in return for the work.

If my trainer felt like I should continue on another horse, or else forfeit any financial benefit of my work, then she should have said something to me. "Oh, you know, if you continue feeding you should be taking your lessons on this horse or that horse, I won't be responsible for lessons you chose not to take, blah blah blah". Something like that - but she hasn't.

It would be stupid to assume that because I was out at the barn feeding without taking lessons, I was just doing it for nothing and understood I was doing it for nothing. Because I never said anything like that.


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## BigGirlsRideWarmbloods (Mar 28, 2010)

Skyseternalangel had the absolute best advise here. 

Until you have that conversation, you former verbal contract is in affect and it's your fault you didnt use the compensation offered. You cannot retroactively change the agreement and demand payment UNLESS that was prenegotiated in the original agreement. 

I get a paycheck every week. That was what was outlined in my employment contract. I cannot go in to work on Monday and demand to be paid in whatever goods & services my employer makes; and if I don't cash my paycheck (ie. used my agreed upon form of compensation) it's not my employers fault if I don't have cash in my wallet.

You asked for advice, and you got a resounding answer, but you don't like that answer. It's not that we don't understand your situation, it's that we don't agree with the conclusion you prefer.
.
You can have the conversation and either
A) Ask for back compensation & potentially burn a bridge/lose the gig, and frankly a sweet one at that.
B) Ask to renegotiate the deal, and take the couple weeks where you didn't use the offered compensation, as a life lesson.

What you do with this advice is up to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

And just to let you know how a BO/Trainer feels about this subject, if you were at my barn and I read this post, not only would you not be feeding anymore for any thing at all, you'd get a sweet little 30 day notice to move out of my barn. This kind of ungrateful, entitled attitude is why most BO/Trainers will not do work exchanges.


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## BarrelracingArabian (Mar 31, 2010)

I feed generally 2-3 times a week and instead of free lessons or cash we get points towards going places so i wouldnt be complaining its not her fault your horse is out. I would take the opportunity to widden your riding skills nd work with another horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigGirlsRideWarmbloods (Mar 28, 2010)

As a show barn owner I *100% agree with Dreamcatcher Arabians*. I have a waiting list of girls willing to jump in to this kind of situation.

It's supply and demand. I have a supply of people willing to do the work for the compensation I offered. There for I can expect and demand my own terms.

All of my girls know my terms as I have them and when applicable their parents, sign a contract saying my Working Student positions are "At Will" and have no cash value. That it is strictly an education for labor exchange. "At will" means you can leave any time and I can fire you for any reason not specified by the government, and "not wanting to put up with BS" is a 100% valid reason.

As an empathetic mature adult I can understand your frustration, but "thems the terms you agreed to", and I stand by what I stated above.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

So let me make sure that I’m understanding you correctly. 1. You agree you’ve been getting a great deal by getting unlimited lessons (you collect on 3/wk lessons) for feeding 2 x’s a week. 2. Your horse is currently not sound to ride 3. You’ve fed a total of 12 x’s (2/wk for 6 wks = 12 feedings) 4. You feel your horse is a “cash cow” for her because you provide her grain. 5. It takes you approx. 2-4 hours to feed, and you’ve had to bring horses in from the rain. 6. You feel that “if it {lessons} is worth more than she has asked” it’s not your issue, you’ve held up on your end of the agreement. 7. You agree that a) you can take lessons on a different horse, but chose not to because you want to focus on your horse b) you’ve ridden another, but it doesn’t meet your standards (“he wasn’t that good a mover”), and neither do others that are available (most are small/med ponies). 8. You are adamant that you believe you have held up your end of the “deal”, but she has not as of the last 6 weeks held up hers. 9. You want some form of compensation. AND finally 10. You’re frustrated at others responses not giving you a definite answer of reasonable compensation.

First, by stating that you’ve been getting a “great deal”, you are admitting that your trainer is taking on the bulk of the agreement, not you. Regardless of how the agreement was hashed out. 

Your horse is FAR from a “cash cow”. A bag of feed is what, $30 at most? Are you taking into consideration the cost of any hay your horse eats if purchased off-site or costs associating with baling/racking hay if on-site, fencing maintenance, facility maintenance, shavings, electricity, property insurance, business insurance, property taxes, utility bills, payment to others to clean stalls/do other chores? Providing a bag of grain is about 1% of total costs incurred by a facility owner, so she is in no way making $$ by you buying a bag of feed.

I still can’t figure out how it takes you 2-4 hours to feed a 20 stall barn, 2 hrs maybe. At a 45 stall facility feeding grain/mixing supplements = 45 min. Hay = 15 min. Bring in horses = 30min to an hour on a REALLY bad day. Sweeping up isle, and misc another 30 min. TOTAL = 2.5 hours on a TERRIBLE day, and that’s double the horses. At a 16 stall facility… feeding grain in the stalls, setting hay out in fields, letting horses out, cleaning all stalls, scrubbing & filling H2O buckets, setting hay & feed for nighttime, sweeping isles, and picking any piles in the indoor was at most 5 hours BY MYSELF. In both cases horses needed to be led in, so I too had to catch them. So again, not seeing how it’s taking you 2-4 hours.

*Your agreement was lessons for feeding. I haven’t seen anywhere where she said you CAN’T take lessons, you just CHOSE not to*. Your reasons remind me of my kids when it’s their way or no way. So it’s not that she’s not holding up her end of the bargain, it’s you’re not liking the terms when it doesn’t go your way. You’re wanting compensation because you’re not getting what you want, rather than because the agreement isn’t being honored.

You can definitely try talking to her, it’s worth a shot. But from all of your posts, and I’ve read them very carefully to make sure that I’m not missing something, you are not presenting yourself in a good light. I’m hoping this was not intended to sound this way, but it sounds like someone who expects everything is owed them for little to no effort on their part. And doesn't want to do any of the "dirty" work of owning a horse, just the "fun" stuff like riding.

If you were in my barn, and came to me asking for compensation for feeding twice a week just because YOUR horse wasn’t rideable and you don’t want to ride my lesson horses, you would get one of 2 answers. Either, “don’t feed anymore, & pay for your lessons from now on” or “ride one of the other horses available”. And if either of those aren’t what you want to hear, “…there’s the door”. But trust me, I wouldn't be so nice about it.

This isn’t about her not holding up her end of the deal, it’s about you not getting your way.


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## Ne0n Zero (Dec 25, 2008)

I would be taking advantage of the opportunity you have here (and believe me it is an opportunity) and ride some of her horses. You will learn training techniques and methods you can apply to either your horse at some point or others down the line, not to mention, the more lessons you have, the better and more skilled you will become at riding. I don't see why it should matter if the schoolhorse is a great mover or not; it's not your horse and is therefore only temporary, as well as gaining experience and miles in the saddle for YOU. The better at riding you become and the more stable of a seat you have will prove invaluble in training your own horse and will benefit you both.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DressageIsToDance (Jun 10, 2010)

I'm glad I don't board with any of you. Good lord.

I spoke with my trainer today. She was most happy to offer me right away $125 off my board while Amber is off, and a few free lessons on another horse for the month or so I've been feeding without lessons.

I'm completely happy with that. Maybe people just do things differently in other places - maybe people value work more at my barn.

I don't get how any of you can take this as an "ungrateful" post. I am very grateful for all my barn owner has done for me. I haven't said anything against her here. Again - it's not like I think she is massively indebted to me. I guarantee anybody else that rides at my barn would have done the same as I did if they had fed and not had lessons for a month. Quite honestly those of you who would say "your loss" to someone who had done work for you but didn't take their lessons with a valid cause wouldn't need to give me a 30 day notice - I would leave.

I also understand that where you guys are coming from is just how you do things where you are, but clearly we just do things differently at my barn. My barn owner's response today was proof of that. She had no problem understanding where I was coming from.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Glad the mature conversation worked for ya :wink:

It's just the way you said it, it came off as though you thought she owed you something for tidying up the barn. She didn't because her offer of free lessons still stood, just your horse isn't well so you weren't taking advantage of them.

When you talked to her, everything changed. You came to a new deal and that is now the arrangement instead of lessons.

Are you understanding that now?

I'm glad it got sorted!


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## DressageIsToDance (Jun 10, 2010)

In a way yes, and in a way no. If I had been feeding for a month and didn't take lessons and suddenly decided to get up and leave, would I have wanted to be compensated? No. But being that I am going to continue to board my horse there, take lessons with her (working or paid), pay her to coach me at shows when Amber is better, and more than likely continue to groom countless ponies for her kids, pull manes, not asking anything in return for those two things...I felt like I wasn't out of line to ask for something. Would I have asked for face value of "unlimited lessons"? Of course not. I didn't think my work was worth a doctor's salary. I still can't see eye to eye with everyone on the "your loss" note. After all, that was time she had to schedule other students and make money while she didn't have to teach me. I didn't take my lessons, yes, "my bad", but I still did the work.

I didn't mean to come off so snotty in my last post, rereading it, I think I was just a little taken aback by the comments of "if you were my boarder, I'd kick you out". I definitely wasn't trying to badmouth my trainer or say that she was trying to cheat me in any way. She's a very busy person and being that I hadn't said anything about it either, I was totally aware that the thought probably hadn't even crossed her mind about my lessons in relation to my feeding.


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## rascalboy (Jun 30, 2007)

Unlimited lessons just for feeding 2x a week? Wow. Nice deal. Around here, a 30-head barn would give you $10 per feeding. A bigger 40+-head barn might give $20-$30 per feeding. $20 is the norm, though. You mentioned turning out, though. Turning her horses in and out isn't considered 'feeding'. That's "work". 
Anywho, 3 lessons a week seems a bit much just for feeding 2x a week. I'd think you're getting the better end of the deal by far.
Anywho, just ask for a bit off of board. If I were in your shoes, I'd be getting maybe $60 off of board a month. If it's a big barn with lots of work, maybe $100, tops. Most likely it'd be $30-$40 off of board, with the barns around here.


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