# Daisy reins.



## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

Does anyone use daisy reins? My horse pulls her head down a lot which kinda scares me so I was wondering do daisy reins work or would they just irritate her?

She is pretty sensitive with things and has been behaving badly when ridden.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Was not sure what it was, I had to look it up. An anti grazing device or an overhead check of sorts.

I have never used one, no. I do know some small munchkins that have used them on their ponies when hacking out on grass.

What exactly did you want it to do?


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

The ones I am talking about are used when riding so the horse does not pull his head down.


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## CinderEve (Oct 26, 2010)

Rather than using something to pull his head down, why not use a sheepskin noseband cover? I've had success in getting horse's to bring their heads down that way.

Sheepskin Noseband Cover, Cottage Craft Sheepskin Noseband Cover


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

I have used them on children's mounts before, but wouldn't really be inclined to with an adult rider. Is there a reason you are unable to prevent the behavior yourself? checks can, in theory, (if the horse has a habit of putting her head down suddenly and forcefully) be a bit harsher than a rider simply making it a practice to keep the horse's head up - if she is as sensitive as you say I don't know that it would be the best option.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

CinderEve said:


> Rather than using something to pull his head down, why not use a sheepskin noseband cover? I've had success in getting horse's to bring their heads down that way.
> 
> Sheepskin Noseband Cover, Cottage Craft Sheepskin Noseband Cover


She is not trying to pull the horses head down, at least not with this device. It keeps the head from being pulled down.


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

I dunno why she does it. She just stops and dives into the bit. Maybe it is the bit. But she only ever does it in walk.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I suppose this would work and it would be self correcting.

Are you not able to yank her head up and make her go forward?


Have you had her teeth checked recently?


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

So what you are saying is your horse roots? When she roots, she pulls you out of your tack? 

What do you do in response when your horse roots? Do you yank back?

There could be a number of reasons as to why your horse is rooting - poor saddle fit, mouth hurts, too much hands in her face, not enough leg and too much rein, etc, etc, etc - can you eliminate the reasons as to why she is doing this?

I do not believe any gadget is going to "mend" the problem, but instead just mute it.

It is hard to decipher the situation on a forum, without being there in person. 

Nelson used to root quite often - and my Coach told me to not yank back, because that's just fighting against the issue, instead of trying to correct it. Instead, make sure I ride with a strong base of support, and hold myself strong in my tack, so when he does root, he does not jeapordize my position, and he just pulls against himself. When he pulls his head down, to not allow him to find the end of the reins, but instead by holding myself strong, I didn't allow him to find the "release" but let the bit catch him in the mouth. It was hard to not pull back, and it took practice, but eventually I got it.

When he did root, I also had to engage him forward and get him moving forward. 

Sometimes he still Roots, and when I feel him about to, I drive inside leg into outside rein, tighten my core and hold myself so he cannot jeapordize my position - and I make him work.

Of course, I elminated issues, like saddle fit and teeth and bit and yadda yadda.

I hope that makes sense.


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## wheeler4x4 (Dec 10, 2010)

when you try to pull her head back up do you pull with one rein or two? if you are pulling with two she can brace against it, one of our boarders has trouble with her pony who will duck her head down to eat grass or to try and get the bit. I am assuming with your horse she is trying to grab the bit when she pulls her head down. Does she try to buck at all? That is the other reason they pull their head down, they cant buck when their head is up. I would suggest when she pulls her head down next time, just pull her head up to one side with one rein, it is harder to brace against, and make her go in a tight circle if you have to. Without more details as to what she is doing I really dont know what more advice to give.


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

Hmm well I had her teeth done a few weeks ago. Before I got them done she was doing it but not as bad. After I got them done she stopped for a while but started again about a month ago. 


When she does it I actually let go of the reins. I am afraid to pull back up because when I do she throws her head up and backs up. 

She also mostly does it when I ask her to go forward. She just stops and every time I try to get her going she pulls her head down.

I am afraid it could be the saddle. It is a cheap one that was not properly checked when I bought it so I am gonna see if it fits next time I get out to see her. I will be using those great videos about saddle fitting that someone posted.

She also has a sensitive mouth it could be that too. I am getting her a happy mouth bit.

Another thing is she does not do it every time she is ridden only sometimes.


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

Oh and she does sometimes buck but too.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Good for you for taking the needed steps to figure out exactly what is going on!

To the part where you say you let go of the reins completely, don't do that. I know it is hard to, and I know that bad habits are hard to break.

Have someone help you - this is what my Coach did with me. Have someone stand infront of your horse, while you are on her, to grab the reins, one in each hand. You sitting in your tack with reins in your hands like you do any other time, and have that person pull the reins on you - and see what happens. Meaning, what you do.

If you drop the reins, do it again until you get into the habit of not doing that. 

What happened when my Coach pulled the reins on me, is I lost my position. I ened up coming forward, my legs went behind me and my butt came slightly out of my tack. So my Coach corrected me - telling me to sit deep, and tall, open chest, tighten my core, deepen and lengthen my leg and soldify my body - when he pulled the reins again, nothing moved, but my arms.

He corrected me again, and said to make sure my elbows stay at my side, with my thumb and index fingers holding the reins tightly *with a loose and relaxed middle finger, ring finger and pinky finger*

So he pulled them again, and I didn't budge - so he had me go out on the rail, and work on that, and when Nelson rooted - I did not budge, and what happened was Nelson caught himself in the mouth.

BUT - you have to have the seat and the leg to keep them moving forward.........................my concern is the fact that your mare throws her head up in the air and starts backing up. Makes me wonder what is going on. It could be poor saddle fit, pinching up front? What do you do with your body? Do you tighten up? Do you clench and pinch with your knees? 

What is her history? Riding wise....has she had an owner too much in her face before? That could explain the backing up habit she has incurred....what are you doing when she is doing this?

Do you have someone more "confident" who can get on your horse and help you out with this situation?

Edit to add: Bucking - ok - I would definately get your saddle checked by a Professional Saddle Maker/Fitter, and have a Chiro come out and make sure there is nothing going on back pain wise. That could also explain the backing up.......


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

Yep someone else rides her when she is being like that and she never ever does it with him so they think she is only doing it with me because she knows I will give in and get off etc. When I am on my own and she does that I do get off. When the people that help me are there they make me stay on. First the other person rides her. She does not pull her head down. The minute I get on she starts doing it. When they are there they tell me to hit her on the shoulder with a whip when she does it and it does make her put her head back up but I don't have the confidence to do that when I am on my own. I feel safer when other people are around.


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

Oh and when I was buying the saddle I was told it might pinch her withers but if I used a thick saddle pad it would help. I did not have a clue about saddle fitting at that time so I thought nothing of it. I might have to just get a bigger saddle.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Hmmm, you are right. This is definately a "you" issue - but I commend you for being upright and honest with yourself, so be proud for that! That's a good thing, because when you recognize your limitations, you can only improve from there. If you ignore your limitations, you'll never improve.

So, lets take this as a learning experience - this mare deserves praise as well because she's teaching you - to become a more confident rider and a more determined rider. Maybe not at this point, but one day you'll see that.

I would be afraid to say "yes use the daisy reins" when you are alone, because of the head going up and the backing up issues - this, scares me because she can rear and go backwards on you, which would really send you leap years behind in your confidence, instead of gaining ground.

I am going to suggest, maybe riding her only when you have others with you - to help you become more confident and stronger. And, when you are alone - maybe ride another horse who is allows you to relax and just enjoy yourself?

Do you have that opportunity?

Edit to add - I wouldn't buy another saddle without the aid of someone who is a professional in this matter. So that you can get the best possible help, knowing that whatever saddle is chosen, is the right fit for the both of you.


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

Yeah she really scares me too when she backs up. She has only started doing this in the last few weeks. But of course only with me. I am gonna have to try to stay on her when she is like this and not give in to her. Maybe she will stop once she realizes I am gonna stay on XD

I don't think I have the opportunity to ride another horse unless one needs to be ridden. I will ask the instructor about that though.


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## TheLastUnicorn (Jun 11, 2010)

You will have to establish a forward. 

If she's rooting on you, try riding her forward, at first, without much of any contact on her face... contact isn't first in the training scale for a good reason... it's counter-productive if you don't have Rhythm and Relaxation first... if she's rooting the bit and ripping the reins of out your hand she's not relaxed. 

I agree with MIE on how to achieve this... inside leg to outside hand takes away the horse's ability to lean and pull on its rider.


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