# Topgun Whiz and Knox About Boot



## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Hi, I really want to get into reining and I found a registered finished reining QH online for $8,500. That's out of my price range but they're willing to negoitiate on price. Anyway, he's out of Topgun Whiz and Knox About Boot.....anyone know anything about these particular horses in respect to the reining world?


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

equiniphile said:


> Hi, I really want to get into reining and I found a registered finished reining QH online for $8,500. That's out of my price range but they're willing to negoitiate on price. *Anyway, he's out of Topgun Whiz and Knox About Boot*.....anyone know anything about these particular horses in respect to the reining world?


 
Flawless....


Topgun Whiz is sired by Topsail Whiz, a really big horse in the NRHA. He's a _six million dollar _earner and a 2003 inductee into the NRHA hall of fame. Really gorgeous horse, and his sire is Topsail Cody.....also an inductee in the Hall of fame (1996) and a million dollar earner. Amazing bloodlines, two generations of Hall of Fame horses. My trainer has a son of Topsail Whiz and _**** _that horse is amazing. He's sweet and gentle and freakishly willing for being a stallion. Marvelous bloodlines on him 

I don't know as much about Knox About Boot, but she has Hollywood Jac on her Sire's side. Hollywood Jac sired Hollywood Dun It, and both are million dollar earners and hall-of-fame horses. And on her Dam's side she has Peppy San, and whenever you hear Peppy and San in the same name it has to be good. I could tell you all about Peppy San Badger, but I'm not sure how they're related _exactly _so I won't. But I do know that the Peppy San Badger horses have a tendency to be a bit on the hotter side. 


In fact, they both have Hollywood Jac I believe. Doc Bar, too. 

I don't think you can go wrong with this horse. If you do end up buying him, I will be begging you to post pics and video. I'm really interested in seeing how this turns out! Any horse with that kind of bloodline is gonna be great


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I'm really excited for them to get back to me on my offer. He's an NRHA money earner, a real pretty dun, 7 yrs old, friendly disposition, they're located in my same state, 15hh, and he's gorgeous! They don't show any confo shots but there's a few pics from senior pics and sliding stops:


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

That is a nice pedigree. However I have one thing. VET CHECK VET CHECK VET CHECK VET CHECK. Do not pay $1 with out one. The Topsail Whiz line is known for foot problems.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

nrhareiner said:


> That is a nice pedigree. However I have one thing. VET CHECK VET CHECK VET CHECK VET CHECK. Do not pay $1 with out one. The Topsail Whiz line is known for foot problems.


 
Oh, yes! I completely forgot about that.

But from what I can see of that picture, he has a nice stop


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

OKAY, so I gave him an offer of $1000 and they didn't email me back for a few days so I got worried.....when my mom, who's vacationing with her best friend and her boyfriend in Florida, called me to tell me they got a call from someone about a $1000 horse. Not knowing I had sent the message to them, she called me to ask about it. I told her of his amazing bloodlines (which I have memorized up to the 3rd generation.....lol) and how he placed in the top ten at Congress in both 2006 and 2008, and how if they said my offer would work (they seemed in a hurry to sell the horse so they can move closer to their daughter, who's the rider of the horse and who's going off to college and doesn't want to do the horse thing anymore so they're willing to negotiate in price.....a lot...) this was an *amazing* deal. She called back and they told her that $1000 was a little low but they didn't seem to stress that point too much, more of a "yea-thats-good-im-just-seeing-if-youll-go-a-little-higher" thing, I think. My mom will be coming home from Florida on friday and is taking me to ride the horse next friday.

First of all, I have to buy the horse. Which means my little 13-year old self has to get out and find a job. Not easy if you're under 16. I made up posters for tack cleaning, I'm going to see if I can maybe learn to braid manes for shows, I'm going to give up birthday and Christmas money for 4 years or so (sounds hard for a kid but I will stick to if it means a reining horse of this good a pedigree) which will give me about $2000 or so hopefully.

The second thing of (much smaller but still significant) concern is my reining background. Not too good-looking. I've never ridden a reining horse, and they know that and said this horse would be perfect for a beginning reiner, but to get the most out of my first ride on him, I'll need some info on reining horse cues. Like how to sit for a sliding stop, what cues to give for a sliding stop, how to do a roll-back (I probably won't attempt this next friday, but who knows), how to ask for a spin, how to differentiate in cues between a full stop and a gait change, etcetera. I know reining horses don't trot in the ring, but I will need to just trot sometimes for muscle building and such. Also, I've seen a lot of reining competetitors snapping while they ride.....what does the snapping symbolize and do you think this horse will be trained to snapping?

Here's what the description said on his ad. Pick it apart if you will please :



> Must sell this Two Time Top Ten Congress Finalist! Our daughter is a freshman in college and has made the decision that she can longer show. Her life is taking her on a new journey and we must find a new home for this amazing horse. This gelding is out of TOPGUN WHIZ and KNOX ABOUT BOOT, bred and trained by Brandy and Terry Murphy, of MURPHY PERFORMANCE HORSES. Murphy Performance Horses - Home He has been with them from the beginning. He is a 7yr old red dun, has a solid foundation, and a very friendly disposition. NRHA money earner and would be great for a beginner of any age. Solid in the pen, still loves to go show. Plus's his stops and turn-a-rounds, has great lead changes and we hate to sell him, but College comes first. PRICED TO SELL!


Also, my uncle and aunt have a reining ranch in Colorado where they raise half-arabians. I'm hoping he'll be able to help me improve my reining form. Here's his website:
http://ramblin-ranch.com/

Thanks, guys! I'm praying this works out


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Sorry for the really long post, but I want to get the most out of this ride so I can see if he'll be a good match for me


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Spin - Just like a haunch turn. Nudge with the outside leg and neck rein to help, if he doesn't go off of just leg.

Stop - You should sit back and slide with the stop. Relax into your seat and keep a loose rein.

Rollback - Odd move for me. Jester responds to a vocal rollback command, Annie responds to leg pressure, and Rebel I have to use rein and only rein to pull him around.

Lead Changes - If you're n the rights lead, you will slide your left leg back to push the hip out and move your hand to neck rein his front.

Transitions: Sit back


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Thanks . The only other thing is, I was watching reining vids on YouTube and saw that a lot of riders were continuously nudging their horse with their spurs, like every second. Why do they do this?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AztecBaby (Mar 19, 2009)

You offered them $1,000 for a $8,500 horse? you have got to be crazy? If someone offered something that low for a horse of that quality when I was selling it I sure as hell wouldn't even reply.

I don't know how bad the economy is in America but I would be blown away if it was that bad that they would sell you that horse for 1k.

Just.. wow.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I know.....they said 1,500 would be okay, though, if the horse went to a good home. I'm thirteen and have to pay for the horse myself.....I know my offer was outrageously low, but hey, they said it wasn't that low if the horse went to a good home. That was the daughter's sole request. If they do end up going higher on price, which I honestly wouldn't blame them for, assuming I like the horse a lot, I *will* be in birthday and Christmas money dept with my mom until I can earn the amount I need.

Maybe I am crazy--who knows:roll::wink:


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

equiniphile said:


> Thanks . The only other thing is, I was watching reining vids on YouTube and saw that a lot of riders were continuously nudging their horse with their spurs, like every second. Why do they do this?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Mmm, right. Well, the reason I would do this would be to cue the horse to go into the faster version of the gait, and/or hold it there. In my previous post I said that for transitions you only had to sit back. My fault, I should have said this:

Fast to slow = Sit back

Slow to fast = Lean forward a little and bump gently with your heels


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Thats all you have to do to slow down? Sit back? No whoa or tugging on the reins? Okay....and for a stop, you sit back and say whoa? Do you also tug on the reins? Sorry for my infinite questions lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

First on a well/properly trained reiner the spurs have nothing to do with speed. Speed comes from body position. Lean forward move your hand up the neck and maybe kiss depending on how the horse was trained. TO slow move your hand back down the neck to the horse area which will get you to move your body back and my horses have hummers on them. Which cues them to slow. Whoa is ONLY for stop and stop how. Does not mean just the sliding stop but to stop turning or what ever they are doing.

You should also not sit back. It should be a rolling of the hips over the pockets. If you toss your self back you will mess up your timing and the horse will get off balance. On your run down to the stop you should be a bit back on your pockets and then when you are ready to stop you remove your legs from the horse role back on your pockets and say whoa. You may or not have to use your reins. Depends on the horse. Even my green mare needs to rein contact. She loves to stop and stops hard. Also do not brace your back in the stop. If you watch how reiners sit the stop you will see that at the end their hands is down on the horses neck and they are slouched a bit.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Sorry, my fault on poor wording. nrhareiner is right.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Thanks, guys, that really helped. So here's an example of what Ill do when I'm trying him out:

walk around the ring for a little while, then ask for the jog by leaning forward in my seat and moving the reins up his neck. (how do I differentiate between asking for a jog versus a lope?). Do a figure eight maybe. Then ask for a lope by leaning forward in my seat and moving the reins up his neck a little. Do a figure eight, making sure he takes the correct leads, and then canter from the end of the arena to the middle, and leaning back and saying "whoa" for a sliding stop. Do a roll back by applying leg pressure to the outside and neck reining him. Canter, then sit back in my seat to go back to a walk, after a few strides, halt by sitting back in my seat again, then ask to back up.....how do I ask him to back up? Hold my legs out and kind of jiggle the reins? That's what I see when I watch reining videos....then stop by saying "whoa" and putting my legs back to his side? Then to ask for a spin I'll neck rein to the one side and bump him on the side. How do you control the speed? Bump faster or slower? Then stop by saying "whoa" and returning my hands back to normal while stopping bumping my leg against his side.

Do I have it right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I found him on another horse classified site....Here's all the pictures I have of him from those two sites; just thought I'd share for possible critique:

http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr340/equiniphile/horse-6.jpg
http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr340/equiniphile/horse3-3.jpg
http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr340/equiniphile/horse2-2.jpg
http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr340/equiniphile/horse6.jpg
http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr340/equiniphile/horse7.jpg
http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr340/equiniphile/horse5.jpg
http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr340/equiniphile/horse4-1.jpg


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

equiniphile said:


> Thanks, guys, that really helped. So here's an example of what Ill do when I'm trying him out:
> 
> walk around the ring for a little while, then ask for the jog by leaning forward in my seat and moving the reins up his neck. *(how do I differentiate between asking for a jog versus a lope?).* Do a figure eight maybe. Then ask for a lope by leaning forward in my seat and moving the reins up his neck a little. Do a figure eight, *making sure he takes the correct leads, and then canter from the end of the arena to the middle, and leaning back and saying "whoa" for a sliding stop*. Do a roll back by applying leg pressure to the outside and neck reining him. Canter, then sit back in my seat to go back to a walk, after a few strides, halt by sitting back in my seat again, then ask to back up.....*how do I ask him to back up? Hold my legs out and kind of jiggle the reins?* That's what I see when I watch reining videos....then stop by saying "whoa" and putting my legs back to his side? Then to ask for a spin I'll neck rein to the one side and bump him on the side. *How do you control the speed? Bump faster or slower?* Then stop by saying "whoa" and returning my hands back to normal while stopping bumping my leg against his side.
> 
> ...


My horses differentiate between trotting and loping by vocal commands. Trot/jog = Tongue clicking, Lope = Kissing. When you are at the jog you should either be sitting through it or posting to it. And for jogging excersizes I generally will practice collection on light rein contact and bending at the pole through the trot. With my WP/ Reining crossover horses I will ask them to put their head down and bring it back up when I say. Mine will put their head down when I jiggle the reins back and forth (right left right left, in a rythym) and bring it up on a vocal command. (I use "Psst" to get it up) 


When at the lope, you should either have your hips melted into the saddle seat (For the slow) or leaning forward with your hand up on his neck (Faster). 

And if he's been trained for reining you shouldn't have a problem with correct leads, but always make sure you tell your horse which lead to pick up. Even on the trail when I ask for a lope I specify which leads, and if the horse doesn't pick up the lead you want immediately stop and ask again until he figures it out. 

And for the stops, I just want to clarify that some patterns require stops in differant places. Like last weekend I competed at a small reining show, the "Icebreaker" for the spring/summer circuit. They required lots of stops in the pattern towards the end. One stop was in the center, another was all the way at the end, rollback and stop at the other end for the backup.

Oddly enough, backing up is one of the moves I see several differant techniques on. I always keep my horses supple to the backup, because I use it so mch in everything I do. My horses respond to the command by me whispering "Back" and applying very light rein and leg pressure.

As for spinning speed, if I want to ask for more speed on the spin I will click my tongue at them. If I just want to move their front over I won't click. Simple as that....or at least IME with my reiners.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Okay, thanks! If I have any more questions before now and friday I'll post 'em


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Please do. This is good for me as well as you to be thinking about these things. I haven't coached in months. I'm a bit rusty. If nrhareiner has anything to add, I'm sure they could do a bit better than me.


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## StylishK (Dec 12, 2008)

I just want to make a slight suggestion. 

Reiners are special animals (not that other horses aren't), but there training is prestine (similar to that of a dressage horse). The WORST thing you could do is get on a reiner thats at too high of a level for you it just doesn't work. You can't get on a high powered machine and expect it to run right, you need to start on the lower level less horse power. You have to slowly make steps up to the higher level horse when you are ready. 

I don't want to sound rude because I may be wrong he may be just perfect. But I think this horse is at too high of a level for you at the moment if you aren't going to be working with a reining trainer for lessons. It's not as easy as just going down there and asking for a stop, there is so much more too it, and being a beginner in reining your timing is likely to be very much off. You have to be able to tell when your horse is just speeding up for the stop or actually just blasting off - its not easy to tell. Not to mention reiners tend to be a little "hotter" than other horses, not ALL of them, but you know running fast and stopping is exciting and there are times they will get a little too excited, start anticipating and you need to be able to recognize it and know how to go back and correct it and chill the horse out. 

If I were you right now I would be using that money you have to get quality reining lessons before you went and bought a horse. It's imparative that because you don't exactly know what you are doing that you have someone working with you. And if you can't have both a horse and reining lessons I would take the reining lessons. If you are going to still try him out and not take my suggestion, I STRONGLY suggest you bring someone who knows something about reiners out with you to try you. They will be able to feel and tell you if he's the right horse for you. 

He looks like a really cute horse, but I'd really be surprised if they took $1000 when they are asking $8500, sounds like if this horse is as broke as he looks in pictures you are getting him for cheap as it is for 8500. I would definitely get a vet check if you are going to buy him to make sure he doesn't have any issues.

Good luck with whatever you decide, I hope you take my suggestion into consideration. I hope I didn't put you off or anything. I just think its important to understand if you are seriously considering getting into reining you need to have the right basics, its not a sport you can just teach yourself. If you are just looking for a well trainer horses to ride around and have fun on then fine thats a different story. 

(one more note because I always worry about it: never ever ever try to do a sliding stop without plates, at least don't expect them to slide without plates on - some will a little bit when you say whoa and its not a big deal - but actually expecting them to stop is unfair)


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Very true, StylishK. Reining lessons would be a definate good idea.


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## StylishK (Dec 12, 2008)

I'm glad someone agrees.

I don't want to discourage it be any means, I think its great the OP wants to get into reining. I just think its important to have all the knowledge possible before jumping in and buying a horse for it.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

On average a bigger reiner will go through about 3 horses by the time they are ready to be competitive in the Non Pro. I know I would not have been able to ride the reiners I have now when I started with reiners about 15 years ago. The reiners I have now are NRHA Open quality and although they are not hard to ride in some respects it would be very hard for a non reiner/green reiner to get them to rein.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Exactly. 

Okay, well, technically I learned on Jester but I'm not a good example. I've ruined and re-built that horse so many times, and he's ruined and had to re-build me as well. But then again, Jester's very...._special _

Despite my own experiences, I think you should start lower level. But then again, if this horse turns out to be a nice teacher horse I would highly reccomend it. I suppose it just depend son the horse.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Thanks for bringing that up....My uncle, who breeds and trains quality reining horses in Colorado, offered for me to go see him on his ranch this summer to have him teach me reining. So I will have lessons......If the horse really is too experienced for me, I will try to be a non-biased judge and make myself pass. However, the owner told my mom over the phone that he would be great for someone who's not a beginner in riding, but he would be great for someone who knows how to ride but is new to reining.


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## StylishK (Dec 12, 2008)

Perfect, let us know how it goes


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I'll be sure to. Thanks again for the advice, I really appreciate it


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Awesome, then. 

You will definately have to post pics and videos for us now. I'm dying to see him work...he looks fabulous ^^


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## mountainhorse44 (May 26, 2009)

An 8,500 dollar horse for 1,000? I'd that's really steep price drop.. For a horse that's that well trained/shown and backed with a pedigree to boot. Are you sure there arent any health problems? Not to be a negative nancy.. but that's kinda suspicious to me... anyway..


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Will defininitely post pics and vids. I'll also make sure I get the horse's papers, a contract stating he's sound, his coggins....anything else you guys can think of?

Oh--I have another question about backing. Ive seen people stick their feet out to the side so they're not touching the horse when they back, and I've seen people give pressure with their legs while indicating "back" while sitting back and giving light rein pressure. Which is more common?


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## StylishK (Dec 12, 2008)

On my reiners I normally take my legs off like I was stopping (to get them to stop) and then keep them off and put weight in my stirrups kind of picking my bum off the saddle and she backs now just off that.

I will bump her with my legs at the girth (or shoulders sometimes - but you can't do that in the show pen) to tell her she needs to back fast. Also if I pick my hand up she backs faster. 

So on my reiners I don't personally put my legs on to back. I do the feet out to the side. That way when I stop my horses are thinking back too which generally gets them thinking about putting their butt under them more.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

One again, this is sort of an odd move for me. My reiners have all been started by differant peole so they've been trained differantly.

Rebel: I give light pressure and light mouth contact, just gradually sitting back in the seat a little more.

Jester: He's vocal. I tell him "Get back" and he will move backwards.

Annie: She only resonds to rein cues.

******: Seat cues and rein, no leg.

Yeah. My horses are highly inconsistent.....I've never actually took a colt and started him myself. I've helped with young horses before, but the ones I seriously compete on are either bought finished or sent of to train. I just don't trust myself with training yet.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Thanks guys! Im sure I'll think of more questions


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Told ya I would....okay, do reiners have to pracice their spins, stops, and rollbacks in sand arenas, or will they be okay practicing them in grass or dirt? In our small pasture, years ago we usually had sand spread in it every summer, and we left the other pastures for grazing. We haven't put sand in the small pasture for years, though, so right now that's a dirt/clay pasture. If I get this horse, will he be okay practicing in the dirt corral or should we get a load or sand for it? We have a guy coming in a month or so to put more clay in that pasture......if I get this new horse, should I get sand in that one instead?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StylishK (Dec 12, 2008)

I wouldn't ever try to stop on grass, that just asking for trouble. 
Spinning I'm iffy about, I wouldn't do it but its much less harmful than stoping. 
Normal riding such a w/t/c is totally fine. 

I LOVE a clay base with sand on top. Approx 4-6 inches of sand are my personal ideals. 

I would probably get a load of sand. 

How big is your pen?


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Obviously you wouldn't try to do a sliding stop on grass, but good solid stops with the butt underneath them can be practiced in w/t/c on grass. Rollbacks and spins, yep, can also be done. Obviously it will be a bit harder on the legs, so if you can get sand, go for it, but it can be done.

We do stops from a gallop (Abrupt, not sliding), rollbacks and haunch turns on grass for ASH classes.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Grass NO NO NO NO NO. NO stops NO rollbacks NO Spins. Grass is very slippery and asking a horse to spin on it is a disaster waiting to happen. Stops your horses feet will either get caught on the grass and mess up the legs or they will slip and lose their balance. Keep in mind that they have confidence issues just like riders do. If you ask something and they do not feel safe or get hurt trying they will not try again.

I also would not use clay unless it is a bass and you have good sand on top. 

Reiners are special horses. Once they learn how to do things you normally do not keep practicing. A reiner only has so many stop turns and rollback in them and if you are not careful with footing and other things that number will be drastically reduced. This is why a lot of people have practice horses. I know I use my stallion as my practice horse. He is retired reiner so he knows the ropes. Would love to pick up anouther practice horse.
Footing is very very important. If you do not know what to look for find someone in your area who does.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I wouldn't slide on grass, myself.

I wouldn't really hesitate on the spins. I mean, if the grass is wet and slippery then I probably wouldn't do much but if its dry and good footing then go for it, just maybe let the horse go at his own speed and his own feling. Don't expect as much fro him. I've practiced spinning on grass before and I find Rebel actually likes it better, but he's odd.

And just in case I didn't make it clear. DO NOT PRACTICE ON WET GRASS. Dry grass only, if you _must _practice on grass. I prefer the sand, but if I can't get over to Toni's arena I will take a short practice session either in the drive or on the disused pasture which is normally dry even in the winter....oddly.

If you can get the sand, I would definately do it. It would make such a differance. 

Oh, and random off topic advice....

When you put sliders on him, you better be **** careful. Your horse will be slipping and sliding all over the place on trail rides, especially over rock. And asphalt or concrete is gonna be god awful. Rebel has never had sliders on before and the oment he walked onto the asphalt parking lot at Toni's he couldn't figure it out. Obviously this horse will be a little more educated to the sliders, but be careful.....just in case.


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## StylishK (Dec 12, 2008)

Even when we reset our reiners plates we don't stop them until a day or two of just riding (although we will lope into the center to stop, I'm talking sliding stops). They have to get used to how they feel again because they get readjusted. 

We don't really do to much stopping or turning around until a week before the show and then we start turning up the heat if you will. Other than that its mostly w/t/c and LOTS and LOTS of slow work (ie. walking and taking your legs off and backing, pushing their body around, spinning slow etc.)


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Yes, same with me. You won't want to practice so much that the horse gets tired of it. And never practice the same pattern. Keep him guessing and make it interesting.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I have all outdoor pastures/corrals.....no indoor. May have to build a round pen for practicing on the side of the house for ring work. I've heard sand is really bad when it gets rained on......true?if so what can I do to avoid it? I've heard of using limestone but I don't know how that would be on a reiner's feet.

With shoeing, can someone explain the mechanics of shoeing reining horses? My horses have always been barefoot except for my OTTB. Sliders are only put on shortly before a show, right?And I know reiners have to have special shoes....how are they different?

What's the difference between a stop and a sliding stop?

Thanks for your advice
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StylishK (Dec 12, 2008)

You should put your plates on at least a month before you show IMO. You can't put them on right before and expect the horse to go in and stop. Stopping is not something you do a lot of when the horse knows what to do, but you have to do enough to keep up a fitness level. 
If our horses have been out all winter we will bring them in in Jan or Feb, ride them and fit them up for a month or two and then put plates on by Mar or mid-March. They have to get used to the feel of plates. Also be warned the aren't cheap we put out $250+ for a full set of new shoes with plates. And plates normally only last one reset

Slide plates are a flat surface ,which reduces friction and makes it possible for them to slide. Sliding without plates will cause serious damage to a horse and should never be done. 

Here's a picture of sliding plates
http://www.bestbuyhorseshoes.com/photos/mvc-047s.jpg 

You generally start with baby sliders on a horse thats never had them, so they don't hang that much off the foot. But once you move up to the normal plates they will hang off the back of the foot (hence, its a little unsafe to turn to horses out together if one has plates)
See how it hangs off the back








You are going to need a pen bigger than a round pen to practise stopping IMO. 100 feet at least, but some people make due with less space so you may be able too. I like having a nice long run down space...at my barn I have more than 200 feet to run and get stopped and its awesome. The indoor is about 140 feet. If you can't do bigger than I guess you'll have to make do. 

What I would do if you can't afford to actually pen it in is just make a bigger area, and maybe build a fencing wall on both side to use to practise stopping. Your pen doesn't need to be fenced in, and that way you can save money on fencing and use that money to make a bigger pen 

Yes sand gets hard when its reined on, but if you have a good base and a solid amount of sand it won't be that bad if you regularly work the ring (by this I mean grooming it with a harrow)


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

First sand is a good top soil. How it drains is up to how you have your area. Some will drain great others will not. All my property is tiled so with a few areas all my property drains very very well and I am all sand.

You can use screenings/limestone as a bass. Clay works well also but you need about 4-6 in of sand on top. Keep in mind that clay does not drain well and I would NEVER use it as a bass unless it was already there.

As to sliders. I put them on about now and leave them on all summer with my show horses and any horse getting worked. I may or may not put front shoes on depending on the horse and work. If you do not know what to look for in a reining shoe/farrier or what it takes to tweak slide plates find a good farrier who does. In your area that should not be hard. Sliders are wider and longer then a normal horse shoe. The nails are filed flat to the shoe so there is no hail visible past the bottom of the plate.

The difference between a stop and sliding stop if the difference between stopping and the horse not sliding 35 feet and one that does. If my horses do not have sliders on or the footing is bad I transition down and then stop. I do not have a horse that will stop from a lope that does not slide. This also works well to keep them from antisipating and also gets them hunting the slower speed.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Okay. I do a lot of trail riding at my house. I should leave this gelding behind when I ride the trails if he has sliders on, correct? Or will he be okay to wear sliders while trail riding?
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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

I trail ride all my horses sliders or not. As does my trainer. You just have to know the limitations of your horse and the terrain they are on. Comes down to common sense.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Okay. We don't have any rocks or anything on our trails, and I never take my horses above a trot in the woods except for my one gelding who insists on cantering up to and then jumping the ravine :lol:. And just galloping and cantering at the big grass meadows behind the woods is okay with sliders? I would think so but I'm just checking.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I wouldn't leave him behind, but be really careful. Watch the footing. Rocks are a BIG NO-NO for sliders. I had a filly once that I let one of my friends ride and the first thing she did was try and climb up a rocky hill. I put an end to that right quick but it could've been bad.

So long as the open space has decent footing I wouldn't be too worried about it. Just make sure you know the limitations. I don't have a big field anywhere near me so I seldom have the opportunity to just take off running down the prairie. Mostly I'm either in the arena, round pen, on a narrow trail or in our small pasture which is big enough for some schooling work but if I really want to get something done I ride across the street to Toni's.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I'm so excited I've been waiting over 2 weeks now to go see this horse. Tomorrow I'll be leaving early from my Track meet so I can drive the 2 hours it takes to get there and ride before it gets dark. And if all works out, my mom's soon-to-be-husband has offered to trailer the horse in his 6-horse gooseneck so I'm very greatful for that. Lol when they get married, we'll have 9 horses between ours and my mom's fiancé until we can sell our Welsh stally and our Paint Clydesdale gelding. Were gonna need to build a new barn!! I'll make sure to have a sand arena built too ;-). With size......there's definitely more than 200 feet on the long side on the place I have in mind, but not that much width to it because the one side will back up to woods and the other side, a steep hill. 

I'll have the owner tell me what she specifically does for the horse like grain, when she puts sliders on him, etc. What kind of boots/leg wraps should the horse wear while we're riding?
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## StylishK (Dec 12, 2008)

I think the owner will definitely have some great tips.

I don't think you need to have the exact same boots or anything (I'm guessing the horse probably already has sliders on so that won't be an issue). But she can give you an idea of what you need.

Make sure to ask her exactly how she cues him because not all reiners have the same buttons.

Ex. some people take their legs off to slow down, but I put my leg on and my reiner slows down. Speeding up for me is done by a cluck and a bump bump of the legs and driving more with my seat.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

For just normal trail riding I wouldn't worry too much. I normally will just put skid boots or splint boots on my horses, but I've had a colt hurt himself running before because he knocked legs. 

And yes, do be sure to ask what cues she uses. The reining world uses a lot of differant methods.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Had to reschedule....the time we were set up for didn't work out because we found out my sister had a soccer game last night


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Eh. No worries.....Just keep us updated when you do go see him. Maybe have someone takes some pics for us 

I'm dying to see this horse work. He looks fabulous and I'm a sucker for the Topsail Whiz bloodline. My trainer has a son of his and he just melts me. ^^


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Would it be rude for my mom to video me riding him so I can post it here, do you think?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I'd ask the owners if they minded, but if they don't care then go for it.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Will do 
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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

They sold the horse on Monday to someone who went and looked at him before we could....they didn't tell me how much he sold for--I'm curious though=)....anyway, Ill be saving up my pennies to buy a good reining horse someday


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## Tasia (Aug 17, 2009)

THats too bad =( Maybe it wasn't ment to be? I know that happened to me while searching for my first horse. Good luck and don't give up!


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

That's what I think....maybe it just wasn't meant to be. Thanks


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Oh well 

Good luck finding a good reiner! I almost wish you didn't live all the way in Ohio, I might be able to help you out there.

Like you said, maybe it wasn't meant to be. Don't give up you'll find a good one soon, and maybe by then you won't be in christmas money debt


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Thanks. If you don't tell, I'll spill that I accidentally read an email my dad sent my mom about sending me off to Colorado to learn reining with my uncle =D. According to the email it's a surprise, so I'm trying to act naive ;-)


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

That's fabulous! Don't you just love those moments when you stumble on things you weren't supposed to? Hehe, have fun


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Haha thanks


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