# The purpose of a chain bit?



## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

I was looking through my Smith Brothers catalog and i seen a chain bit. I was wondering what is the purpose of this kind of bit? Is it easier on their mouth and tongue? I just don't understand the reason to be putting a chain in a horses mouth. Could someone explain this to me please. Thanks!! 

http://www.smithbrothers.com/images/250/0117.jpg


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

it is a very harsh bit that should have been banned many years ago,


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

OMG are you serious?? Thats horrible, and all these "highly recommended and accredited" trainers are using them!!! Thats just cruel. I'm glad i asked about this before i made a mistake in using it as a training tool. 
Are they trying to ruin good horses just to get credit and make money??


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## NicoleS11 (Nov 21, 2008)

How is it a cruel bit? I have a chain snaffle and I love it and all my horses go great in it. The chain is wide and conforms around their tongue. Way nicer than some of the twisted wires ive seen...


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

the twisted wire is anouther bit i wouldnt have anywhere near my horse. 
The wire bit will pinch on each link and it also transfers a lot of pressure onto a very small area (the thickness of the wire) so would be more painful, It will press on both toungue and bars and god help the horse if they try to move thier toungue at all.

a chain bit is NOT a gentle bit


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

i really like my chain bit, unless you are hauling on it, it sits nice and flat in their mouth. bits are cruel, hands are !


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## NicoleS11 (Nov 21, 2008)

Exactly gypsy. A smooth snaffle can be made cruel pretty quickly with a pair of grabby hands.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

I dont buy that one, yes anybit in the wrong hands can be severe but even in light hands some bits are still cruel.

Look at the physics of how the bit works!
If your horse needs a chain or twisted wire bit then there is some thing seriously wrong with the horses schooling or its mouth has been ruined by similar hideous bits.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

*sigh* .. the same thing is said about a spade bit ... 

"If your horse needs a ____________ bit then .... "

Then there are the folks that don't believe in bits at all ..

"If your horse needs a BIT, then ....."


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ive used a chain gag/hack on a horse before and never had a problem. The horse was my lease horse and thats what her owners have used on her. The links are large and it doesnt cause any discomfort for her. She responds very well and enjoys the bit.

There are other horses that use it too and every horse that uses it responds very well to it. Its a favorite bit for 3 out of 4 of their riding horses.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

just wanted to add that my chain bit is a snaffle.


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

I use a tom thumb grazing bit (yes i know alot of people don't like them, but my gelding was trained in it and it works for him) and a loose ring snaffle for my mare (when she accepts it).
I still don't understand the purpose of this bit?? Is it for a more advanced horse with a soft mouth or a horse with a very hard mouth who likes to take the bit and run??
My gelding was trained rather harshly (not by me, i was too young at the time) and he has somewhat of a hard mouth, some days he's fine, and others he'd rather take the bit and run, though he is bomb proof.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

texasgirl I would agree with them about the spade bit, if you need to drive a point into the roof of a horses mouth to have control then you have a serious problem.

invisible aids are possible in the simplest of double jointed french link snaffles (which physics and equine anatomy dictates is one of the mildest bits available) so there is no excuse that you need a severe bit to give a little aid.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Chains are a very controversy topic.

In my experience horses either LOVELOVELOVE chain bits or HATE them. The chains I have in my tack room are not small chains either, they are thicker, smooth links. They conform to the mouth. The horses I have ridden that love them are so soft, so supple, wonderful to ride in. But, if horses don't like them, they let you know. I definitely do not go to a chain first thing but it's always an option for me.

Sure, they're plenty cruel if you have someone who is yanking and pulling and tearing off their horse's face. But ridden lightly, no problem. Just sitting in the mouth doesn't hurt the horse at all, nor does a little touch with your hand.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Faye I hate to be snarky, but if every horse was able to be ridden in a french link (which I do like by the way) then we wouldn't see top grand prix events, NFR barrel racers, polo players, etc going up to stronger bits for refinement.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

be as snarky as you want since your information is incorrect. I have seen grand prix dressage done in a snaffle, it is not allowed internationaly but it is allowed by BD.

polo players dont do it for refinement they use harsh bits because their horses are not all that well schooled and are galloping in a group. They dont perticularly give a **** about whether they rip the horses mouth to shreds provided the horse turns. We have 15 polo ponies on the yard and i wouldnt subject any horse to the treatment that is apparently normal in polo.

Icant comment on barrel racers as it isnt a sport we have here however pc mounted games upto and including international level is done in snaffles.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

There is nothing wrong with a chain bit. I agree with Sorrel, not all horse like them but I have ridden in some that love them. 

_If all horses liked the same kind and amount of pressure there would not be much need for variety in bits!_

I had a horse that did not ride well in a typical curb, he liked a snaffle with a life saver, but loved a chain bit. He was an extremely sensitive horse. He liked the fact that chain distributes the pressure through out rather than in one area or another, but that is depending on how it is used exactly. Also because of the chain you are able to use each side independently. I found that it worked really well for lifting shoulders which is why I think a lot of speed event people like them.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Perhap Faye, just like my barrel mare can be ridden in a snaffle. Reiners go up to curbs for refinement. Dressage riders up to double bridles for refinement. The list goes on.

Cowchick, you bring excellent information to the table as always of course. Agreed 100% with the above ^^


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I should also add I don't like the chains on my bits to be rough or pinchy. Mine all have thicker links, very smooth, and on the side have a rounded metal piece so it doesn't rip up their lips. I've not had a horse ever be hurt from one.


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## jumanji321 (Dec 1, 2010)

I just noticed that the one person dead set against them is an english rider and the rest are all western (or primarily western). Hmmmm...anyway, I think that a thick and smooth chain is quite gentle as the many breaks distribute the pressure across more of the horse's mouth. It can be harsh though if someone repeatedly see-saws.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Gypsy is an english rider and is supporting it?


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## BubblesBlue (Jun 29, 2010)

I don't get why this is such a huge controversy.

There is good and bad in EVERY bit depending on the person using it. If you don't like it, simply don't use it. Don't try to _force_ your opinions onto others. Simply state it and be done with it.

I personally don't use it because none of my horses like it and don't need it. However, if I came across a horse that does like it and work well in it, I would use it.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

There are different chain bits that apply different pressures in a horse's mouth. So in my mind there are good chain bits and bad chain bits.. The previous owner of my mare, Lark, rode her in a bicycle chain bit. It's a VERY harsh and unforgiving bit in any hands. I will not ever put that bit back in her mouth..But, that said..She doesn't do well with other bits, such as a curb, snaffle..She rides okay in the Jr Cowhorse but just refers the light chain piece of the bit I'm riding with now. Right now I'm riding her in a light chain/gag/hack bit like ClaPorte said earlier in the thread. It's a really nice bit for her, she likes it, it's not harsh, but just because people hear the word chain they immediately assume it's harsh.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

DrumRunner said:


> just because people hear the word chain they immediately assume it's harsh.


Exactly


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

^^^yeppers


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

I keep seeing post from people who think anything other than a basic snapple is cruel, or a sign of a poor rider....our improperly trained horse.

Each to his own.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Typo, maybe? I thought Snapple was a juice..


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

I've always thought of how a bit would feel on my hand if I were to use it to pick up a small bucket of water; in my opinion, a double jointed bit would probably spread the weight the most evenly and be the most comfortable. A twisted bit or a chain bit would hurt like the dickens after a short while. 

This is a very important point of mine: *As I ride english, the horse is supposed to accept contact; you should feel some weight in each rein; the bit must encourage this. The horse can't be afraid of getting hurt/sore when they reach into that contact. * In my opinion, some bits (regardless of the hands; remember that there should be some weight in the contact) greatly discourage this.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Could someone please explain to me what the mechanics are of the chain bit, and why you would choose to use it.

I have ridden English and Western, so have a hoof in each camp.

Re Spade bits, as I understand it they are designed to be used only bu the most accomplished of horsemen, on the most highly trained of horses. The whole point is that the bit shows off the refinement of the partnership, by the almost invisible aids given.

Of course give the same bit to a heavy handed novice looking for extra brakes and you have a wreck in the making.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

JustDressageIt said:


> This is a very important point of mine: *As I ride english, the horse is supposed to accept contact; you should feel some weight in each rein; the bit must encourage this. The horse can't be afraid of getting hurt/sore when they reach into that contact. *In my opinion, some bits (regardless of the hands; remember that there should be some weight in the contact) greatly discourage this.


This is an excellent point in the differance between western and english riders. 

I seek to have my horses on the loosest rein, and lightest touch possible. There are times in training when I seek contact, but training is *always *done in a snaffle for me. Still, if I can twitch a muscle and get the desired response...I couldn't care less. To me, snaffles are great for training, but don't offer me the finesse I need on a strong horse in a high-pressure situation. When I'm running at mach 5 towards a barrel, I want to know that I don't have to pull on my horse to get him around there. A small twist of my wrist, a lot of leg and seat, and finally a desired, beautiful turn before we're off and running again. Same if I'm doing ranch work at the barn. English has a LOT of demands in its own right, and I highly respect that, but not every little thing can be accomplished as well in a snaffle as it can be in another bit.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Golden Horse said:


> Could someone please explain to me what the mechanics are of the chain bit, and why you would choose to use it.
> 
> I have ridden English and Western, so have a hoof in each camp.
> 
> ...


In a nutshell, the chain collapses and conforms to the mouth of the horse, similar to a waterford. I find that smaller chains and thinner links pinch quite a bit, which is why I like mine that has thicker, smoother links and edges that don't pinch either. Some of them are poorly made and not designed well, which is another reason why people assume all of them are cruel.


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## clippityclop (Jul 12, 2012)

Hmmm....

going down a bunny trail here........

A waterford is similar in its action, altho a little less flimsy as the chain - and waterfords are supposed to be for horses with sensitive mouths who need no curb pressure but need a little more 'lift' than a snaffle (so I've been told) - waterfords can be a 'transitional' bit used to teach a horse to work towards carrying a mullen mouth when graduating from a snaffle (when introducing the double bridle, for instance)

Maybe the mechanics are the same in that regard?

but I know nothing about chains....I looked it up online and see it brought up when referring to barrel racing more times than any other discipline....

any barrel racers out there see it used that much with other speed event horses?

:think:


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

GH, it really depends on the type of chain..

When it comes to things like a bicycle chain..The chain is thick, pointy, and can pinch. It's really a last resort for lazy people who don't want to work on a training issue, or for someone who has just ruined the horse's mouth. Nothing else works so let's just stick something that will hurt in there. Right?
Bad chains- 

















But the chain I use is a flat lying chain, it conforms to my horse's mouth and has different areas of give instead of just a bar or joint mouth piece. It's not too much pressure and it's not harsh. Those bits apply mild pressure in the mouth and let's the horse relax it's mouth or tongue more so around the mouthpiece..

good chains -


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Indeed Drum, I would use both the Sweet Six and the Cowhorse bit if I had a horse who liked them without hesitation.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

clippityclop said:


> Hmmm....
> 
> going down a bunny trail here........
> 
> ...



The mechanics of the bits are similar in the fact that they collapse at each joint and conform to the horse's mouth. The Waterford, however, has big joints so won't irritate a horse's lips on contact like the chain bit, which has a much smaller contact area.


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

DrumRunner said:


> GH, it really depends on the type of chain..
> 
> When it comes to things like a bicycle chain..The chain is thick, pointy, and can pinch. It's really a last resort for lazy people who don't want to work on a training issue, or for someone who has just ruined the horse's mouth. Nothing else works so let's just stick something that will hurt in there. Right?
> Bad chains-
> ...


Wow DR those first pics just look uncomfortable. I just didn't understand what this bit was used for, and i was confused about it. I've been trying to find a bit that my mare would be comfortable in, and i just haven't yet. She is a barrel horse in the making (very slowly). I think i'll give it a try and see how she takes to it. She plays with a regular loose ring snaffle, and gives me this look like really i'm supposed to do something with this...and in a tom thumb she gives me a depressed and bored look, so i've been working bitless. I'm terrified of hurting her mouth. 
Thank you all for your info!! Glad to know such knowledgeable people!!


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## NicoleS11 (Nov 21, 2008)

I make my own chain snaffles actually. Its pretty hard to find them so I bought 10 rings and got some bigger, smooth chain and got the guys at work to weld them together for me then I took a really soft/durable tape that we use at work on our pipe spools and taped the link that attaches to the ring just to insure that there wouldnt be any rough spots from the welding. I made 5 of them and all my friends bought them off me and I actually made money off it.

Like cowchick stated they are great for horses that get a little bargy with their shoulders. 

I love mine. Probably my most used bit. Im gonna keep using it and not feel bad about it.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Elizabeth Bowers said:


> Wow DR those first pics just look uncomfortable. I just didn't understand what this bit was used for, and i was confused about it. I've been trying to find a bit that my mare would be comfortable in, and i just haven't yet. She is a barrel horse in the making (very slowly). I think i'll give it a try and see how she takes to it. She plays with a regular loose ring snaffle, and gives me this look like really i'm supposed to do something with this...and in a tom thumb she gives me a depressed and bored look, so i've been working bitless. I'm terrified of hurting her mouth.
> Thank you all for your info!! Glad to know such knowledgeable people!!


If you're going from a tom thumb to something else I would try the Jr Cowhorse bit. It's a great bit and is really nice for a transition bit, you never know she may end up loving it. It's a very popular bit and most horses take very well to it, I have my gelding using the Jr Cowhorse.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

So if the chain is just giving flexibility, wrapping it in this stuff Sealtex Bandage 3in. X 36 Inch | BAB2160 | Greenhawk would give you a soft, non pinching mouthpiece.

Would it then be a soft or a harsh bit?


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

DrumRunner said:


> If you're going from a tom thumb to something else I would try the Jr Cowhorse bit. It's a great bit and is really nice for a transition bit, you never know she may end up loving it. It's a very popular bit and most horses take very well to it, I have my gelding using the Jr Cowhorse.


I didn't get the chance to really work with her in the tom thumb, but i know just from working on the ground she didn't like it. The simple snaffle was a bust since she just played with it and ignored me while doing so. Again i was still on the ground, since i'm afraid of hurting her mouth i do ground work in a bridle. I will give it a try, is it one of the pics u posted?? Thanks


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Golden Horse said:


> So if the chain is just giving flexibility, wrapping it in this stuff Sealtex Bandage 3in. X 36 Inch | BAB2160 | Greenhawk would give you a soft, non pinching mouthpiece.
> 
> Would it then be a soft or a harsh bit?


That's kind of iffy to me, I've never had any first hand experience with that stuff but I'm thinking it would make it a little softer on the mouth but the mechanics and other work of the bit would be the same, it would just prevent pinching.



Elizabeth Bowers said:


> I didn't get the chance to really work with her in the tom thumb, but i know just from working on the ground she didn't like it. The simple snaffle was a bust since she just played with it and ignored me while doing so. Again i was still on the ground, since i'm afraid of hurting her mouth i do ground work in a bridle. I will give it a try, is it one of the pics u posted?? Thanks


This is what I would try if I were you. It's a really nice bit..There are different makes of the Jr Cowhorse.

































Very good, very versatile bits..They work for all different levels and "picky" horses.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

DrumRunner said:


> That's kind of iffy to me, I've never had any first hand experience with that stuff but I'm thinking it would make it a little softer on the mouth but the mechanics and other work of the bit would be the same, it would just prevent pinching.


Why iffy? If it prevented pinching it would be a good thing surely, as you say doesn't affect the working of the bit. The actual stuff is used a lot up here during the winter so it is well tried out as a bit covering.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Golden Horse said:


> Why iffy? If it prevented pinching it would be a good thing surely, as you say doesn't affect the working of the bit. The actual stuff is used a lot up here during the winter so it is well tried out as a bit covering.


Oh, no..I just meant iffy because I've never had personal experience with it and didn't really want to give an opinion on something I've never used..So.."Iffy" as my opinion may not be very correct at all consider I've never used it.

And now I'm curious.. Why do y'all use it in the winter? Because of the coldness of the bit? Something? Laugh..Remember I'm from a whole different part of the world than you and in the winter we RARELY see 20s or anything lower..


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

LOL, I'm moving in with you next winter.

Yeah for us strange bodies who ride when it's -30*C hang on that's -22*F, and yes that is COLD, but usually very pretty and no bugs, it's not all bad.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Holy crap! No way, could not do it. I am jealous of your snow though..You could definitely come for a visit!


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

Thanks DR. You could come up to PA n visit when it snows, where i live we usually get alot. The coldest it has ever been here was -5*F. I don't ride in the winter, i have and don't like it much, tooo cold for me, its vaca time for the horses.  I have relatives that might be near u DR, didn't get to see much of Georgia when i was there tho.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Elizabeth Bowers said:


> Thanks DR. You could come up to PA n visit when it snows, where i live we usually get alot. The coldest it has ever been here was -5*F. I don't ride in the winter, i have and don't like it much, tooo cold for me, its vaca time for the horses.  I have relatives that might be near u DR, didn't get to see much of Georgia when i was there tho.


You're welcome! Really? Where are they located? I'm about 30 minutes below Macon, in the dead center of Georgia. If you come back to visit you'll have to let me know!


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## ChipsAhoy (Jul 1, 2012)

Golden Horse said:


> LOL, I'm moving in with you next winter.
> 
> Yeah for us strange bodies who ride when it's -30*C hang on that's -22*F, and yes that is COLD, but usually very pretty and no bugs, it's not all bad.


Wow! I start shivering if It's under 75*F...guess I live in the wrong part of the country :lol:

As far as chain bits, I've always thought the ones with a small, thin chain looked harsh, but the bigger ones seem like a good option. 

Some horses really do prefer seemingly "harsher" bits....there's a horse at my barn that really likes TT's for some reason...her owner has tried all different bits and she throws her head in anything else, but is really quiet in the TT. The reins are almost always loose and she responds very well in it. 

Because I ride with contact, I couldn't imagine putting my horse in anything besides a smooth mouthed snaffle, so I think It's hard for some english riders to accept the idea of stronger bits.


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## BubblesBlue (Jun 29, 2010)

Going off topic here. If you dont like dramatic changes in temperature, don't come to Montana... It's 100 in the summer and as low as -20 in the winter. e_e
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

DrumRunner said:


> You're welcome! Really? Where are they located? I'm about 30 minutes below Macon, in the dead center of Georgia. If you come back to visit you'll have to let me know!


I can't remember last time i was there i was 13. Its been a really long time, i'll have to email them and ask.
Sure i'll let u know when we go back!!!


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## Copperhead (Jun 27, 2012)

SorrelHorse said:


> Faye I hate to be snarky, but if every horse was able to be ridden in a french link (which I do like by the way) then we wouldn't see top grand prix events, NFR barrel racers, polo players, etc going up to stronger bits for refinement.


Every horse under the sun can be ridden in a simple snaffle.

I know a serious competitor who wins frequently in the Grand Prix St. George Dressage competitions. She schools and trains in snaffles, and has to compete in a double bridle because that is the requirements for competition.

An instructor of mine did the same, however she rode an unruley horse who would spook, dodge and bolt. She could fully collect him, halfpass and perform canter pirouettes while holding only the buckle to her reins.

I worked for a polo facility for a year. They are hard headed people who will not accept change. One of their horses was supposedly hot headed and unruley. I spent a week with her and got her down to work in a snaffle very nicely. Instead of taking the new training, they slapped her back in her harsher bit, which is why she was so angry to begin with, and she turned sour again.

Harsh bits are for people who can't train well, or need the extra leverage/control because they lack the ability to obtain the desired result through their seat and legs.

I have taken many crazy mounts and have switched them over to snaffles. I had to retrain them from the beginning. All of them lacked the basic knowledge of leg and seat aids. Once they learned how to respond properly to them, they traveled well in a snaffle, which made their owners much happier.

People use harsher bits in competitions because its either required or they need that leverage to gain the respect of their horse through the horse's face.

"A bit is only as harsh as the hands" - I wonder if horses would agree. If your hands are soft and your aids are correct, there would be no need for chains, gags or spades.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I still have to disagree. I've already stated my reasoning so you're welcome to check back in the thread more, I won't repeat myself.

I should also add I DID say I ride and train mainly in snaffles. And I do believe my horse would agree a bit is only as harsh as the hands. A chain just sitting in the horse's mouth on a loose rein is not hurting it.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Copperhead said:


> Every horse under the sun can be ridden in a simple snaffle..


While it is true that they maybe ridden in one, they may not be best suited to them. I used to believe that a simple eggbutt snaffle was the answer for all horses, but no, they are individuals and even in terms of simple snaffle we are talking, solid, mullen mouth, eggbutt, D Ring, loose ring, french link, myler, full cheek, a huge variety of mouthpieces and rings



Copperhead said:


> "A bit is only as harsh as the hands" - I wonder if horses would agree. If your hands are soft and your aids are correct, there would be no need for chains, gags or spades.


Once again, the spade bit is not intended as a correction bit in anyway, it is showing off the height of training, and designed to prove that your hands are soft and your aids are correct.


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## cmjs (Jun 28, 2012)

I hate it when people start saying "if your horse needs _________ you shouldn't be......." it annoys me like hell! They don't know your horse and yes a bit can be nice in certain hands yet horrible in others!....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

^ Indeed

My horses don't NEED anything. Selena goes completely bareback and bridleless if I ask of her. She can be ridden in pretty much any bit. I've had her in ports, no ports, billy allens, cavalry shanks, mylers, combination gags, jr. cowhorses, sweet sixes, hackamores, bosals...But I settled on a bit that compliments her strengths and weaknesses to what she works best in, and that bit is an 8'' shank Billy Allen reiner bit.

Now we have a horse at the barn who goes in a bit with a lot of gag. Now, he gets way lifty on his own, so for his work that gag complimets his style. If I was to use that bit on Selena however, I would have a trainwreck on the barrel pattern. She would duck in, drop her shoulder, etc. The gag works for that gelding very well because he lifts naturally quite a bit. But the bit I have Selena running in right now has just enough for me to manuever her with finesse and keep her elevated _just enough _that she can make a performance out of it.

If a horse came to the barn for training and the owner said "find me a bit that works", I would evaluate what the horse needs than train in a snaffle on the foundation and building, then when it came time to really work I would find something that complimented his style. If that bit happened to be a chain bit, so be it. 

I _could _acheive what I wanted in a snaffle, and it can be done if I asked with the right cues, but the purpose of these step up bits is so that way it's easier for both horse and rider to achieve the goal in a high pressure situation. If I'm at a barrel race running for a couple hundred dollars, I want the bit my horse works good in with the least amount of effort from them and me and no other will do. Making things as easy as they can be in competition is the goal. No, we aren't covering up issues with the foundation, we're just using the tools available to get the job done to the best of our abilities. It is not wrong to set yourself up with the proper equipment for success.

No bit, not even a snaffle, can fully bring out the best in every single horse out there. End of story.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Sorrel horse, if you cant do it in competition in a snaffle then that is covering up a lack of training.
I regularly compete for a hell of a lot more money then a few hundred dollars, I have to gallop my horse in a group and bring it back, it also has to be ridden by the judge at a show at all gaits on both reins. so i have to prepare a horse for a completly strange rider to get on it and preform to the same level it will for me. I would take any horse I have trained and concider ready to show into the showring in a snaffle, at a certain level I am required to use a pelham or double but I never Need it.

you can give absolutly invisible aids in a simple snaffle and have them obeyed instantly without having to resort to horrid bits like chains etc. No matter how fat your chain or how smooth the links they will always pinch, it is just the basic physics of the bit itself.


The waterford is not a nice bit either and is generaly only used on horses who have had thier mouth ruined already.
I certainly dont see spade bits as a display of how good your horsemanship is. I see it as a display of how crappy your horsemanship is that you need to inflict pain to get what you want.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Golden Horse said:


> While it is true that they maybe ridden in one, they may not be best suited to them. I used to believe that a simple eggbutt snaffle was the answer for all horses, but no, they are individuals and even in terms of simple snaffle we are talking, solid, mullen mouth, eggbutt, D Ring, loose ring, french link, myler, full cheek, a huge variety of mouthpieces and rings
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, the spade bit is not intended as a correction bit in anyway, it is showing off the height of training, and designed to prove that your hands are soft and your aids are correct.


Golden Horse, I couldn't of said it better!!! 



faye said:


> I certainly dont see spade bits as a display of how good your horsemanship is. I see it as a display of how crappy your horsemanship is that you need to inflict pain to get what you want.


Faye, I refuse to get into yet another lengthy debate about the Spade bit. I suggest you do some research on how the bit actually works. The bit is not intended to inflict pain in order to make him work correctly. Like Golden Horse stated, once the horse is to that level of training there is very little use of hands. And the refinement of all cues are to the point where they barely noticed at all. It is used as a signal bit, not a leverage bit.


I am finding through this forum that some english/dressage riders don't understand that as we who ride western do not ride on the bit. And it seems to be a hard concept for those to except. Much like since I have ridden western that I don't understand the purpose of having a horse on the bit, in my mind I assume it would make a horse heavy in the face and he would not learn to hold himself in frame but rather I would have to "babysit" him in it. Does not make me right though.

Western style bits are a progression of refined cues, NOT the progression of more powerful bits in order to get the horse to do as asked because of lack of training or rough hands. Unfortunately there plenty of people who ride that way and it gives bits a bad rap.

I love snaffles and I can ride all of my horses in them. I have many different kinds of snaffles for different horses that like a certain feel. But most of my horses have progressed past the snaffle into bits that suits them. And one of them is in a Spade(or another style with a high port and no tongue relief). Zorro even he can ride in a snaffle, but prefers tongue and palate pressure. You can actually see a huge difference in his attitude when he is in a bit that he likes. 

What is wrong with riding a horse in a bit he likes?
Going back to the chain bit, the horse of mine that I rode in one didn't like any kind of palate pressure, preferred tongue and bar pressure. That is why he rode very well in that bit. I didnt hang it on him because he needed a "mean" bit.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

CowChick, love this *It is used as a signal bit, not a leverage bit*, simple and clear on the difference. Of course it can't be denied that there are idiots in the world that may want to slap a spade bit in as brakes, we can but hope that Darwin takes care of them.

It is also so true that we view the world in terms of our own discipline, and forget that what will work for one style, would not be good for another, especially thinking of the difference between riding in constant contact, and riding with no or very little contact


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## ChipsAhoy (Jul 1, 2012)

faye said:


> Sorrel horse, if you cant do it in competition in a snaffle then that is covering up a lack of training.
> I regularly compete for a hell of a lot more money then a few hundred dollars, I have to gallop my horse in a group and bring it back, it also has to be ridden by the judge at a show at all gaits on both reins. so i have to prepare a horse for a completly strange rider to get on it and preform to the same level it will for me. I would take any horse I have trained and concider ready to show into the showring in a snaffle, at a certain level I am required to use a pelham or double but I never Need it.
> 
> you can give absolutly invisible aids in a simple snaffle and have them obeyed instantly without having to resort to horrid bits like chains etc. No matter how fat your chain or how smooth the links they will always pinch, it is just the basic physics of the bit itself.
> ...


While you can give invisible aids in a sniffle *with contact*, finished western horses are not ridden with contact, so different bits are used in order to give more discreet signals without shortening the reins. I do agree with you from an english standpoint, but perhaps you should get a bit more info on western so that you can see what I mean before calling someone else's horsemanship crappy and horrid? People are more likely to accept your point of view if you don't insult them...


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I had the privelege of riding a finished bridle horse/working cow horse. He was ridden with a spade bit of which I was scared half to death of over using. Turned out my fears were unwarranted because I only had to think of what I wanted and he was doing it. Body language I suppose, but my age at the time made me think the horse could read my mind. My hold on the reins was to keep them from falling to the ground. I probably could have removed them.


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

My mare DOES NOT LIKE the simple snaffle, she thinks its a toy and just plays with it with her tongue, Yes she can be ridden in it, but she would rather play with it, she just has that kind of personality and it seems to be too light for her to really care about my cues. As for the tom thumb, it seems to be too heavy for her mouth, too much pressure on her tongue and bars. So thats why i asked about the chain bit, if i should consider trying it on her, since she seems to be my difficult horse. I'm terrified of hurting her mouth so i use little contact on her mouth when on her back, she's getting the neck reining thing down as well as seat and leg aids. As for on the ground, i lunge her some to get her to understand the idea of having it in her mouth for steering and gentle control. I do not wish to become my grandfather and break her the harsh and hard way, damaging her spirit and overall her mouth, making her hard mouthed and difficult to handle after a while. 
I did not mean to cause such a huge debate on this subject. I've had the pleasure of riding a beautifully finished western horse, it was like riding with an invisible connection.


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

Thank you all on your views and input.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Alright well, I feel like I'm talking to a wall now. I agree 100% with what Cowchick said. Anything else I was to say now would be me repeating myself. But Faye, if you think my horse needs coverups, you clearly don't know me or my horse. 

OP, I'm glad you found the answers you were looking for. With this, I will respectfully back off from this thread. The arguments have become repetitive and if you'd like to see my opinion any further you can look at my previous posts. My opinion hasn't changed.


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

SorrelHorse said:


> Alright well, I feel like I'm talking to a wall now. I agree 100% with what Cowchick said. Anything else I was to say now would be me repeating myself. But Faye, if you think my horse needs coverups, you clearly don't know me or my horse.
> 
> OP, I'm glad you found the answers you were looking for. With this, I will respectfully back off from this thread. The arguments have become repetitive and if you'd like to see my opinion any further you can look at my previous posts. My opinion hasn't changed.


Thank you SorrelHorse, i do appreciate you op on this subject since you have experience with this piece of equipment. And i agree, no reason to keep arguing with someone who doesn't want to see things from the other side of the fence. Everyone is well and so to share and keep their own op of the subject, just because one is opposed doesn't mean all should be, everyone has a different way of thinking and going about things. Thank you again, for being considerate.


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## Shooter16925 (Dec 3, 2020)

Elizabeth Bowers said:


> I was looking through my Smith Brothers catalog and i seen a chain bit. I was wondering what is the purpose of this kind of bit? Is it easier on their mouth and tongue? I just don't understand the reason to be putting a chain in a horses mouth. Could someone explain this to me please. Thanks!!
> 
> http://www.smithbrothers.com/images/250/0117.jpg


I disagree with them saying it’s a super harsh bit, every bit has pros and cons but only the riders hands make it harsh. I ride my very soft mouth horse in a chain bit and he loves it. Every bit works differently you can’t tell someone not to use something because you don’t like it


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

MOD NOTE: This thread is eight years old. 

If one has questions about this type of bit, or would like to share their experience with it, it may be better to start a new discussion.


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