# Someone set me straight about these Horse Rescue farms~!



## Annnie31

Recently a so called Rescue Farm here in Ontario advertised a nice weanling filly they rescued that was up for adoption. I thought geech, I have the money, I have the time, I was a breeder for several years and raised Quarter Horses and showed so what the hey... ask about the filly and see what happens.
I sent an email with a request for the adoption fees etc and whatever they wanted by way of paperwork etc. 
The email I got back was interesting....the person who owns this rescue farm tells me she has three offers of $500. which is more than the $300 she was going to ask for the filly so if I was interested in her I would have to wait and see what happens with the other two offers. She called it a bidding war for gods sakes. I got the distinct impression she was trying to get me to pay even more than the $500 supposed bids she already had.
When I read the contract it was interesting....you are never allowed to sell the horse unless you offer it back to them for the original cost and you must give them 90 days to come up with the money (a lousy $500 fee)
Am I crazy or does this rescue place smell more like a horse trading joint? Arent Rescue Farms supposed to adopt the horses out at a flat fee or do they charge by whatever value they want to put on a horse? Im a bit confused here .:-x


----------



## Spyder

Annnie31 said:


> Recently a so called Rescue Farm here in Ontario advertised a nice weanling filly they rescued that was up for adoption. I thought geech, I have the money, I have the time, I was a breeder for several years and raised Quarter Horses and showed so what the hey... ask about the filly and see what happens.
> I sent an email with a request for the adoption fees etc and whatever they wanted by way of paperwork etc.
> The email I got back was interesting....the person who owns this rescue farm tells me she has three offers of $500. which is more than the $300 she was going to ask for the filly so if I was interested in her I would have to wait and see what happens with the other two offers. She called it a bidding war for gods sakes. I got the distinct impression she was trying to get me to pay even more than the $500 supposed bids she already had.
> When I read the contract it was interesting....you are never allowed to sell the horse unless you offer it back to them for the original cost and you must give them 90 days to come up with the money (a lousy $500 fee)
> Am I crazy or does this rescue place smell more like a horse trading joint? Arent Rescue Farms supposed to adopt the horses out at a flat fee or do they charge by whatever value they want to put on a horse? Im a bit confused here .:-x


The name of this "rescue" is ???


----------



## westerncowgurl

id like to know the name too


----------



## Annnie31

Heaven Can Wait Equine Rescue

http://www.heavencanwaitequinerescue.org/

Diva was the weanling I was interested in


----------



## Annnie31

So anyone...is this a regular practice with farms who run Rescue? or not. One of the excuses the owner gave for accepting the highest bidder is they are in debt $100,000 dollars for their farm...but if having a mortgage is the reason one can call itself a rescue and sell horses to the highest bidder...well that just doesnt seem right since more than half the population of North America are in debt for at least that much money.


----------



## Speed Racer

Annnie31 said:


> So anyone...is this a regular practice with farms who run Rescue?


Not_ legitimate_ rescues, no.

This woman wants someone _else_ to finance her 'rescue' operation, while she claims sainthood for 'saving' these animals. Seen it far too often. :?

Do you even know if she has a 501(c)3? If not, then she's in no way, shape or form a legitimate rescue. Even_ with_ a 501(c)3, too many of them are nothing but hoarders.


----------



## coffeegod

I found Hugo via a rescue group in Kentucky. His adoption fee was clearly stated on the group's website. They are a non-profit with all paperwork in place. I signed a contract with them. I agreed to abide by this: Adoption Process Explained

I don't know how non-profits work in Canada but there is no mention of that status on the site.

I'm sorry to say it sounds a bit dodgy. The real shame of it is the horse ends up the loser.


----------



## equiniphile

Common practice? Yep. Appropiate practice? Absolutely not.

I find it interesting that this person has a horse up for "adoption" (Maestro) for 25k. Definitely sounds like a horse trader.


----------



## Annnie31

I thought the fact that she doesnt want to post adoption fees online, sets prices based on what she feels current market value should be and has more than 30 horses on site is a bit off the wall to call a Rescue. 
I guess it could be hard to find legit places here or does anyone know of a legit place in Ontario??


----------



## Annnie31

and I agree she seems more like a hoarder and horse trader than a rescue.


----------



## Speed Racer

You know Annnie, if you have a burning desire to help a horse in need, there are plenty of auctions where you can pick one up yourself for a lot less than $500.00.


----------



## Annnie31

Speed Racer said:


> You know Annnie, if you have a burning desire to help a horse in need, there are plenty of auctions where you can pick one up yourself for a lot less than $500.00.


 
I agree and I just may do that. After seeing what there is not to offer via adoption here I think that is the better option. 
I think the weanling just caught my eye, and I thought what the heck...but for now I will wait. Good suggestion and likely at some point I will do just that.


----------



## SpottedDraftRider

She is not a rescue. She is either a hoarder or trader. Maybe even both. There is no rescue that I have ever heard of that has an adoption fee of $25,000 on any horse. In their application they only need ONE reference and it doesn't have to be your vet. She sounds like a hoax to me.


----------



## PerchiesKisses

I have a friend who gave a horse to HCW.... and while they do take in the occasional slaughter-bound horse, I fear most of the horses they take in should maybe not be resold and are far from needing rescuing. HCW is fairly well-know in my area - and not for good reasons. Another person I met got a horse from them only to have the horse come to her with a serious case of lice and a not as serious - but still costly - case of worms.

HCW is more a place where people seem to dump horses they can't sell for whatever reason and HCW relists them as "rescues" to find them homes and make a profit off them in the process.

In my opinion Second Start Thoroughbreds is a lot more legit as far as rescues go, and there are a number of adds on Kijiji that could offer you a valuable horse without the bidding war and also would give you a lot more background. And if you really must 'rescue' a horse - go down to the Kitchener Livestock Exchange.... there are tons of horses who really could use saving going through all the time.


----------



## Whisper22

When I found Persia at a rescue in California and called on her I was told that if I couldn't come see her but knew I wanted her, I had to let them know before the next day when people were coming in to look at the new rescues. There was no "I'll keep you in mind, but let me see if I can get more for her first". Her price was what she was listed for and as long as I signed the contract and faxed it back before someone else did, she was mine.

The rescue you are looking at seems very unprofessional and I wouldn't help people like that make their money. Best to look elsewhere.

This doesn't have anything to do with anything, but the horse they have named Beau listed as a Percheron, looks identical to Persia my Percheron/QH. I wouldn't be surprised if he was mixed with QH as well. He doesn't look full Percheron anyway.


----------



## Annnie31

Thanks for all the input everyone. The old saying "If it smells like a rat..." rings true. Unfortunately it is farms like this that put people off of the legit Rescue places. My daughter and I were talking and I had come to the conclusion that this place was more of a hoarding situation than a Rescue. Another friend went there apparently a while back (she just told me about it)and was looking at a little paint mare that they were selling for $1000.00 (they gave her the song and dance about having several offers) They advertised her as sound, and told her when she called that the mare had a slight blemish on her hock but nothing to worry about...well when she got there the mare was tottally crippled, couldnt even put the leg down true. Of course she felt bad for the mare but no way could she buy her. She is an equine message therapist and she felt the mare was beyond help. HCW hadnt done xrays, had the vet look at it or anything. 
Personally I think they should be shut down, jmo. 
They should at the very least not be able to call themselves a Rescue Farm...


----------



## VelvetsAB

Second Chance Thoroughbreds or the Ontario Standardbred Adoption Society would be better places to look. Although a lot of their horses aren't in a "need rescued" situation, they could still use a good home. 

Kitchener Livestock Exchange has some rough looking horses go thru it at times, if you truely feel you want to give a horse in need a home. 

David Carson Farms in Listowel has sales fairly regularly too, for just regular horses...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PerchiesKisses

Haha! David Carson's is where my old Percheron came from  I absolutely love their draft horse sales - some really nice horses to be found there.

Same with the Kitchener sale is where my barn manager picked up a team of Percherons - broke to ride and drive and both goregous! - for $600/horse.

There are some super good deals to be found if you're wanting a horse when you go to auction. But I found I needed my friend with me when I went, cuz if it was up to me six horses would have been coming home lol.


----------



## Beauseant

There are some shady "rescues" around here also. One just over the MD line was just plain despicable. The woman had horses pastured 24/7. We were there in early winter...the horses were standing up to their hocks in cold thick mud 24/7 ... with NO run in shelters, no stand of trees to get protection from the rain, nothing... in any of the REALLY REALLY small fields and their only protection from the weather was their blankets. They stood in this thick, cold mud day in and day out....their legs, hooves and even their blankets were caked with it. One was even lying down in it. Can't tell how their weight was due to the mud coated blankets.....but they looked wet, soggy,muddy, cold and miserable. And she had 4 or 5 horses in each of her very very small paddocks. They were severely overcrowded which resulted in nipping and biting.


----------



## NorthernMama

A few years ago I was looking to bring in a companion horse and shopped at many rescues. IMO, you definitely have to be careful and picky about who you deal with. I also contacted HCW and after a short conversation I got the willies about that place as well. Nixed her off my list.

I have given up on dealing with rescue operations and instead go right to the source now -- usually the track up here for a good Standardbred. Easy to get for free, often delivered, between 2 and 5 years old that need some retraining for riding. The auction is another place, yes, but you must be very careful with that as well. You get exactly one chance to see the horse, judge whether it's been drugged, can't work with it... cross your fingers and hope for the best.

There are many people who are trying to place their horses in a good home. Watch the classifieds, kijiji, local mags -- you might get one that way. The great thing here is that you get to see how the horse has been living, you can probably meet it a few times and sometimes, not always, but sometimes you can get a reasonable relationship going with the previous owner.

Nothing is truly for free though (<$500 is almost free...) so take a grain of salt with you wherever you go. 

Be careful, don't rush and you will find something.


----------



## Spyder

Annnie31 said:


> Personally I think they should be shut down, jmo.
> They should at the very least not be able to call themselves a Rescue Farm...



Unfortunately Ontario is a breeding grounds for some pretty unsavory "rescues".

Some even breed their grade rescue stud to their grade rescue mares.


----------



## Macslady

I believe one of the giveaways is the huge tack shop she has. She is in it for the money.

Do they have to have a rescue license of some type like they do in the US?


----------



## BoxT

I've done a bit of work with a rescue in the past. It is standard proceedure for the contract to require "first right of refusal" or to approve the home if you decide to sell the horse. I have not come across a "bidding war" before but it could be possible if the horse is outstanding. From my experience the rescue trys to place the horse with the best possible owner. Rescues are only as good as the person(s) running it. Some are outstanding and others are questionable. Please remember there are dishonest folks who adopt horses for little money, train or rehab them then turn around and sell them for a profit -- not necessairly to the best owner. The rescues are looking out for the horses, not the potential adopters. 

We have a Fjord/draft mare (Fiona) we got from Arizona Equine Rescue. The mare is a treasure. There is a "first right of refusal" and new home approval clause in our contract. Fiona will never leave us so it's unimportant.


----------



## NorthernMama

BoxT said:


> I've done a bit of work with a rescue in the past. It is standard proceedure for the contract to require "first right of refusal" or to approve the home if you decide to sell the horse.


See, I have a problem with this. If I PAY for anything, then it is MINE. I OWN it and *I* decide what happens with it. I can understand a rescue wanting to ensure that the horse is going to a good home directly from their operation, but after that, I do think they should walk away.


----------



## BoxT

It's your decision, adopt or don't.


----------



## catsandhorses

I cannot comment on her business but if I wanted the filly I'd tell her that my final offer was $300 and she had 24 hours to take me up on it or there was no deal. I get the sense she is playing you, trying to get more money out of you, and that there are in truth no other offers.


----------



## ShutUpJoe

::gets up on soapbox::

There are a LOAD of crappy rescues out there! I donated to one of them and could kick myself hard for doing that. Didn't find out the rescue was a bad one until after I donated. So if you are going to donate or adopt from a rescue GOOGLE THEM! I found out after I donated, because someone told me to google them, that the lady who ran the place had previously had hundreds of counts of animal neglect on her. Has had cases where she didn't use the money donated toward the purpose she intended. Heck the money I donated was to go toward a horse that she pulled off the broker lot, dumped at a quarantine place and never picked up. Never got the vet out to see her, or the farrier. Just left her there and didn't pay the Quarantine place, with three other horses. In the end because of her and one other rescue (which was actually in Canada, believe it was called Land Of Bushy Tails) the Quarantine place couldn't do business at all anymore and had to shut down. Peace Of Mind, the rescue in question, also fundraised several times for gelding theirs colts over the span of a year, people donated, but none of the colts got gelded. She was operating under another rescue's tax information when she wasn't legally allowed. AND she's still got these people following her like she's a hero. She won't allow people to come to her site to see the horses she has. "Borrowed" someone's trailer and argued when she asked for it back. Sent it back worse than she received it. Had a horse for sale online for $3500 but on her facebook rescue page for $350. Said it was a typo, it was on equinenow.com, instead of fixing the "typo" she took the ad down and the horse virtually disappeared. She is not a rescue, even though she is state certified as one. How can one person operate two different rescues and a transport company? And take care of her animals when she isn't receiving enough donations, online begging for food for her horses. Beware Rock N Acres, Sherry Ford, POM, Peace Of Mind and Double L Transport like the devil is on your tail. They are prime examples of what to look for when you are looking for a BAD rescue. 


I've heard that this rescue has changed but I haven't seen proof of it and I highly doubt it. She had 40 plus horses on about 15 acres, give or take but not by much. The property was nothing but a hill. The horses had been reported out on the road several times. Barbed wire fence, nasty hay, horses needed their hooves done, they looked wormy. Some were untouched. She had cryptos out with mares and fillies. Actually had a surprise foal from one of the mares that had been there for years. Possibly still has an Arabian gelding with a spine deformity that made his back look like a roof. Not joking. She wouldn't put him down. He was a stallion his whole life and while I was there visiting he was going after the other horses most of the time. The only flat spot on the property was more than knee deep in mud. It was a sad situation. Case of someone getting in over their head and not realizing it. I would pull a horse from her just to get it out of there. The place is called Wild Horse Rescue. 


I know of a few more. One I won't bring out because they actually come on here. The others I don't have much personal experience with. I've only actually dealt with a few good rescues. One is Frog Pond Draft Rescue, where I adopted my gelding and fostered a Clydesdale mare (pictures in my barn). Another I know of because I had previously dealt with them. The only fishy thing about them is that they allow their mares to be breed, actually advertise that they'll make nice foals. That one is New Vocations Racehorse Rescue. 


Anywho, ways to spot a shifty rescue: 

No contract. Or undetailed contract that doesn't ask for references, farrier, vet...etc.. 

The adoption fee is too high. I honestly believe that adoption fees should be set lower than what the market reflects. They've got to compete with people selling their horses and they can't save more until they adopt out the ones they have. I understand they put a lot of work in their horses but if they are doing it right the work is paid for with donations. 


Doesn't have the proper paperwork. Can't provide it and is dishonest about it. Frog Pond is not 501c3 yet but has applied and they will tell you that. 


Isn't open about things. Doesn't show where donations go. Can't provide current pictures of their horses. Or the pictures are really bad quality so you can't see details. Like hooves or body condition... Most of the pics are taken from chest up facing forward. 


Lies about the horse being healthy or training level just to adopt the horse out. 


Tells you that they will bring the horse to you, meet you somewhere with it, or has the horse in an area where you can't see their other horses. 


Cannot provide what vet or farrier that they use. 


Gets defensive when you ask questions. Puts blame on others. 

Doesn't allow you to take pictures while you are there. Real problem if they tell you to put the camera up as soon as you get out of your vehicle. 


Dodgy when you talk to them. Avoids certain questions, asks you for donations right off... The first rescue I mentioned friended me on facebook and started to ask for donations. Doesn't know much about the horses that they have. 


Best bet is to research the rescue and ask lots of questions. But I agree that one seems really fishy.


----------



## Shmoodog6

*Do your research, people!*

I hate to weigh in on the forum, but it seems that there has been a great deal of speculation about Heaven Can Wait Horse Rescue and their practices. To set the record straight, Heaven Can Wait is a registered non-profit organization in Canada, governed by the rules and regulations set by the CRA. It is NOT an American non-profit organization. Their website is Heaven Can Wait Equine Rescue for anyone who has not actually looked before weighing in with an opinion.

The sale of the horse Maestro is a unique opportunity for Heaven Can Wait. Maestro was donated to the organization for sale purposes as a fundraiser - it's a wonderful opportunity for Heaven Can Wait to raise funds badly needed to support the animals they rescue, and an incredibly generous act on the part of Maestro's owners, who have a positive relationship with the organization, and support its mission and goals. This does not make the ED of Heaven Can Wait a "hoarder" or a "horse trader", rather an effective and financially effective administrator interested in the welfare of her charges.

The clause in the contract that guarantees buyback option is a standard clause for Canadian Horse Rescue associations - if you do research, you will find most organizations ask for this guarantee. This makes good sense. Their goal is to rescue horses (and other animals) and guarantee them a happy and hopefully forever home. What they do not want to do is turn a horse over, and through a set of unhappy circumstances, land that animal back in a rescue situation. If you have a rescue animal and you are no longer able to care for it, your should ALWAYS contact the organization you adopted the animal from. The clause is a good thing, however, designed to make sure adopters act in the best interest of the rescue.

As for the price being over the stipulated adoption fee, it seems the filly has generated interest and rightly or wrongly, the ED has decided to leverage this opportunity. Typically, there is a standard and stated adoption fee, and I would certainly question a bidding war. You may want to contact Heaven Can Wait to ask for details of their adoption practices - if you are still concerned, you can contact the CRA to determine whether they are within their rights as a charitable organization, or are exceeding their mandate.

Most importantly, you should always check the organization you are adopting. Visit their website, contact previous adopters, and other local rescue organizations for referral. A reference is always good.


----------



## Saddlebag

HCW has picked up "rescues" from the auctions that should really have been put down. Instead the poor crippled horse is fattened and at a ridiculous price offered as a pasture pet only. Some of these horses at the auctions have had all medical resources exhausted and it's the only humane thing to do. Not everyone can bury them at home. That is what turned me off HCW. There's a rescue in Texas that sells their horses for a very reasonable price. If Texas wasn't so danged far I'd have gone shopping there. Some of the rescues, especially the humane societies place so many stipulations it's like they are leasing you the horse, you get to pay all the expenses, yet they still own the horse.


----------



## ShutUpJoe

I think there is a lot of good in rescues who maintain "ownership" of the horses for a period of time. Frog Pond still basically owns my Belgian cross gelding. If at ever I need a place for him to go I can simply send him back. Not only that but Frog Pond adopted out a horse by the name of Shay last year and then found out that the owner wasn't caring for the horse anymore. She actually gave the horse to another rescue after it had dropped several hundred pounds in her care. After Frog Pond had put in a lot of work to put weight on her when they had first gotten her. Because Frog Pond had the rights to the horse they were able to recover her and rehab her again. They require a six month and yearly check up. But I do them the courtesy of letting them know what is going on with my boy all the time.


----------



## sandy2u1

I have dealt with a rescue organization before and the experience was nothing but negative. I don't want to go into details, but I had to hire an attorney to be able to keep my horse. I know there are some good rescues, but for the most part you are asking for trouble in my opinion. 

You can go to an auction and buy a dirt cheap horse. A horse that might otherwise go to a kill buyer. Therefore, you are rescuing a horse. The only difference is that this horse will actually belong to you. You won't have the threat of having someone come out and check your property only to take him back if there is poop in the stall or having issues with the rescue if you want to sell or rehome the horse. 

IMO, there are many rescues that are wolves in sheep clothing. Besides, why would you pay an adoption fee when you can go to the auction and save a horse.....and own him outright.


----------



## Annnie31

I agree with Sandy2U. Unfortunately I can see Rescues looking for PERMANENT FOREVER homes for horses that are older and no longer useable, however if someone like myself were to purchase a rescue horse at a premium price from any of these rescues that is a young horse, I would be doing it to feed, train, and eventually find a great show home for, not to keep. Thus I would never be interested in an old horse that is no longer marketable to anyone. Not everyone is able to keep a horse forever. A good example is the weanling in this case. If you kept that baby for 5 years, fed her, spent hours and hours training and then decided to sell her to a great show home later it would be an absolute headache.
I will buy a young horse at an auction at some point maybe this spring and rescue it on my terms. )


----------



## Annnie31

and my final point...Maestro is now listed on HCWs site for $20,000. I think it is wonderful that he was donated (not rescued) to them for fundraising, so if he was not rescued why is he in the adoption section of the site? If I were paying that kind of money for any horse...I would think I would own him without any attachment or legal issue with the Rescue. 
That horse should be front page and center of the site in my opinion, as well as a thank you to the donor. They were very generous.


----------



## Angelina1

I just looked up the "rescues" website and the little Filly Diva who had a bidding war over her now has a price which is advertised - 
*Adoption Fee/Purchase Price: $904 + Donations (Donations Can be Hay, Feed, Saddles, Tack, Riding Apparel or Blankets, etc in Good Sellable/Usable Condition or Donation to Our Vet Account). *

So what happened to all those bidders??

Also what I find disturbing is that under her history they state - "maybe green broke" You have got to be kidding - green broke at 4 months???

Also if you adopt Diva you also have to foster her Dam until weaning and then the Dam is to go back to the "Rescue" or to the person that may have adopted her whilst in your care, especially after you have feed her, farriered her, cared for her etc etc.

Sounds like a dealer to me!!


----------

