# Varifying Bucksin ;)



## QH Gunner (Aug 16, 2011)

Ohkay, this is Gunner. Papers say Buckskin, which at first I disagreed with, but after reading thru all the other color posts, I checked his pedigree... His Sire was a Cremello, Dam was a brown... SO then, He is a Buckskin, Correct? Or am I still just WRONG with this? (I usually am hehe) I only didnt think so bc hes noth the color I usually picture being a Buckskin. Oh, & i'm not planning on breeding him, but- this horse was given to me, so I dont know for sure- but I have one colt (came with him) that is a Red Dun & supposedly the other one was a Dun.. but out of A Sorrel & Chestnut? That kinda confuses me haha!
Thanks Guys


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Actually I would say that he is a brownskin (brown + cream) and not a buckskin (bay + cream). 

ETA that is if he is truly carrying cream, which he has to have if his sire really is a cremello.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

If his sire was a cremello, then he would have the cream gene. He looks more like a brownskin though (brown + cream). You can see it especially in his face, the golden mixed in. 

I don't see dun in him..but do you know what colours his sire's parents are? Dun would be difficult to see on cremello, so he might have gotten it from him..but he really doesn't look like he has has dun in there.


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## QH Gunner (Aug 16, 2011)

NdAppy, that would make a little more sense to me bc I just dont see buckskin haha! I never actually was sure that "brownskin" was an accepted color term. I thought buckskin was bay&cream, & i knew the dam was a brown, just figured it went along the same haha. Thank You 

Poseidon, I know the sire's dam was a pally, but not sure on the father (just know from allbreedpedigree.com)


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

There is no "correct" term as of right now for brown + cream. I just happened to be in the habit of calling it brownskin :lol:


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## QH Gunner (Aug 16, 2011)

Bahahaha, well I like it- Its seems (to me atleast) more fitting then buckskin lol. Is that why he is down on his papers as a buckskin? Because there is no term???? Or is that just another (one of the many) registered color mistakes?


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## QH Gunner (Aug 16, 2011)

Question, It can still be brown even though his nose doesnt go to light brown? Or is that just something with the creme gene that its blackish?


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

That is probably why he is registered that way as there is no term for it. 

Can we see his pedigree on Allbreed?


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## QH Gunner (Aug 16, 2011)

Yeah, sure...
Gold Moon Investment Quarter Horse


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Just out of curiosity do you know your guys HYPP status? If not I would suggest testing. :?


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## QH Gunner (Aug 16, 2011)

Haha! I knew I was going to get that question! Yes I do, which is why i wont be breeding him. He is N/H. Now personally, I dont have a problem with em, my grandmother loved Impressive horses back in the Day, shes owned 11 N/H & we never had a episode with any. However, I know people do- & i would not want to have one bred that someone else would get & then have them not feed/exercise/supplement like we do & have an episode. Plus, I just like him- not the fact hes a stallion. Supposedly, his baby's have all been negative, (the one i have is Neg) but not worth the risk  People have asked lately, but just not what I want from him.


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## QH Gunner (Aug 16, 2011)

I do have to say, I think its great everyone is aware & cautious of that now. I remember when I was like 12, in a show ring.. a horse had an episode. The lady whop owned him had NO IDEA what the disease was! I asked her bc the horse had Impressive in his show name, & i knew about it from ours because my grandmother was very cautious about what they ate & whatnot so she was always lecturing, & this woman was just CLUELESS.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Ahh Glad I didn't offend you with that question. I have had and owned Impressive horses and had no problem with them, but I have never owned n/h or h/h horses.


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## QH Gunner (Aug 16, 2011)

No Offence, we've had alot N/H... weird too bc none of them were like heavy muscled or whatnot, my gram just LOVED their look. I personally, dont mind them... but dont love it bc I do have to be cautious what they eat & make sure they get thir electrolytes & whatnot.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

NdAppy said:


> Just out of curiosity do you know your guys HYPP status? If not I would suggest testing. :?


Good suggestion as the sire is N/H...


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## QH Gunner (Aug 16, 2011)

I know he is, which is why I asked right away. Every Impressive bred horse should be tested asap. Like I said, it doesn't bother me none, but I would not breed him bc of that. I didn't take him for breeding, I took him bc I like him But, it is good to know so that you can take the precautions to prevent an episode. Either way, if I like the horse, I like the horse- that's not a deciding factor for me personally.
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## QH Gunner (Aug 16, 2011)

QH Gunner said:


> No Offence, we've had alot N/H... weird too bc none of them were like heavy muscled or whatnot, my gram just LOVED their look. I personally, dont mind them... but dont love it bc I do have to be cautious what they eat & make sure they get thir electrolytes & whatnot.



Haha! I meant, "No offense taken" I gotta stay off line when it's late & I'm tired 
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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

I am thinking smoky black


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## nicole25 (Jun 24, 2011)

First I wanna say that he is so pretty. He looks very golden to me. As for his color I suck at this thing but if his sire was creme and his dam a i think you said brown? i dont remember after reading this whoel thread then the creme + brown would be right as most are saying. 

Also what are you guys talking about with the Impression gene? I think gene anyway. I have never heard of it.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Not impression gene. A stallion named Impressive passed on a genetic disease known as HYPP. Index


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## nicole25 (Jun 24, 2011)

Ohhhh, okay. And this effects what on a horse or should my lazy butt just read the link you posted? haha A few posts above this the OP said they saw a horse had an episode...is it like neurological? Actually Ill read the link. So lazy today.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

It would probably just be easier to read the link. There is a lot of information on HYPP that would make more sense than me trying to explain it.


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## nicole25 (Jun 24, 2011)

Read it, and it sounds awful. OP it sounds very smart of you to be cautious about not breeding him because of this disease.


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## jannette (Aug 24, 2011)

im glad im not the only one who has had same confussion lol i have a bay overo mare and her mother was on sight, almost identical color as yours. on her papers she is buckskin, "quincy's approval" is her name they call her mocha..i couldnt see the buckskin, actually argued w/my hubby about it cuz i said she was buckskin (cuz of papers) and he thought i was hav'n a mental moment lol...just say'n u not alone


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## QH Gunner (Aug 16, 2011)

nicole25 said:


> Read it, and it sounds awful. OP it sounds very smart of you to be cautious about not breeding him because of this disease.



He is really golden, but Thanks- I think he's pretty too haha. & yeah, I have no problem owning him- but he's already here haha. I wouldn't go making more of them  But yeah, it is horrible IF it happens. Thank god my family never has but I've seen it & it's sad 
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## QH Gunner (Aug 16, 2011)

NdAppy said:


> Not impression gene. A stallion named Impressive passed on a genetic disease known as HYPP. Index


I love how you have links & such for everything haha. Since I've been on here just going thru threads, you share so much knowledge!
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## QH Gunner (Aug 16, 2011)

jannette said:


> im glad im not the only one who has had same confussion lol i have a bay overo mare and her mother was on sight, almost identical color as yours. on her papers she is buckskin, "quincy's approval" is her name they call her mocha..i couldnt see the buckskin, actually argued w/my hubby about it cuz i said she was buckskin (cuz of papers) and he thought i was hav'n a mental moment lol...just say'n u not alone



Haha! Right? I was like, he doesn't seem buckskin to me. The creme & brown I can see & I guess they just call it buckskin cuz they have no name. I'm horrible with different color variations & such tho, so I wasn't sure that's why I hadda check lol.
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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

I have an impressive bred horse to my barrel horse Sonnys Butch Cassidy luckily he and his sire and his sire's sire were all HYPP negative but we still had him tested to be sure even though we weren't planning on breeding him. I'd say out of all my horses he is the best he is so sweet and anyone can ride him. Are you going to leave your horse a stud or are you going to geld him since your aren't planning on breeding him. I was just curious since I personally don't trust stallions. Even the sweet ones can surprise you.


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## QH Gunner (Aug 16, 2011)

Peppy Barrel Racing said:


> I have an impressive bred horse to my barrel horse Sonnys Butch Cassidy luckily he and his sire and his sire's sire were all HYPP negative but we still had him tested to be sure even though we weren't planning on breeding him. I'd say out of all my horses he is the best he is so sweet and anyone can ride him. Are you going to leave your horse a stud or are you going to geld him since your aren't planning on breeding him. I was just curious since I personally don't trust stallions. Even the sweet ones can surprise you.


I think that bloodline is all so sweet (& gorgeous) but I could be prejudiced haha! I do hafta admit, I like the peppy line too- awesome movers for barrels/reiners & such. 
Well, now see here is where I might get heat. He's five- not too old but I hate gelding stallions late. I just feel unfair. He is a gentlemen & I personally don't have a trust issue with stallions. Some, but I've always had a love for a stallion. My grandparents had a bunch wen I was growing up, all sweethearts- I'm just a doggie for them. I do have the room to keep him separate, he does go out with geldings & is fine with that, I've rode him around mares & he doesn't even act like a stud. Only when you put a chain on his nose, from what I hear (like I said I never bred him) does he act like one. Still, it is a risk, so I'm unsure yet. It may sound dumb but it's like a moral thing in my own mind right now. I probably will geld him tho bc I wanna do barrels with him, & rules are rules & many are againststuds in a show ring, plus my cousin loves him, & handles him well but she's only 15 so she wouldn't be able to show him. So chances are, he's gonna be gelded but only because he's probably gonna be shown- not just bc I don't trust him or whatever. I can handle stallion attitude, (which i have yet to see haha) but like I said, it might just be the best choice.
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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

QH Gunner said:


> So chances are, he's gonna be gelded but only because he's probably gonna be shown- not just bc I don't trust him or whatever. . . . but like I said, it might just be the best choice.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good for you!


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

I have 2 friends who I barrel race with, both who have former stud horses who they gelded they are great horses and a lot less moody =D. So I wouldn't feel too bad for him he will be ok once he heals up he should be dandy. You can barrel race studs but you have to go through a lot more rules and precautions when you go places it sound like a big pain to me. But yeah I think me and you both feel the same about our impressive babies.


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## QH Gunner (Aug 16, 2011)

See that's my thing, just a lot less hoops to jump thru with a gelding haha! He really isn't moody, but who knows, one day after NOT breeding, bc I do believe the people bred him a few times, he could change his attitude. He is a man  haha!
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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

I hate how the papers don't always match the color!! The big head (left) is registered as "black." My farrier and I think that he's "Amish Black", which means that if I always kept him indoors and he didn't bleach out, he'd look black. It takes until about February for hiim to really look black.

My frield's mare has gone from sorrel (as a filly, and same as her dam,) to bay, and now, at 5 yo she's a dapple grey!! (She calls her "the horse of a different color.")

The other problem is color identification should your horse be stolen, or lost. I guess the only way to be sure is to have them is a freeze tattoo, or microchipping.


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## QH Gunner (Aug 16, 2011)

Ha! I never heard of anyone else use "Amish Black" I kinda thought it's bc I was near Amish country that I know it lol. 
But yeah, registry colors are so wrong sometimes haha!
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## jannette (Aug 24, 2011)

*verifying buckskin *

im glad to see someone else has had same experiance  my paint mare is out of a "buckskin" that is identical to your horse. when i went to see mother i couldnt find her in pasture, the breeder informed me she's the only buckskin out there lol i sure didnt see one. her papers also say buckskin. i tried to attach pic. hope it worked:? im computerly challenged lol
quincys approval


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Jannette, I would probably call her a "brownskin" too. You can see the gold hairs through the dark ones, but she has the light points where a brown horse would. Ie, in the elbow and flank, places that don't sunfade. My friend has a gelding that looks just like her.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Poseidon said:


> Jannette, I would probably call her a "brownskin" too. You can see the gold hairs through the dark ones, but she has the light points where a brown horse would. Ie, in the elbow and flank, places that don't sunfade. My friend has a gelding that looks just like her.


there are such things as dark buckskins though.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Peppy Barrel Racing said:


> there are such things as dark buckskins though.


Most of them are brownskins imo.


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

Bourbon was classified here as a brown horse and she infact tested smoky black the only true way to know is testing. The guessing is fun but not always accurate.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

LuvMyPerlinoQH said:


> Bourbon was classified here as a brown horse and she infact tested smoky black the only true way to know is testing. The guessing is fun but not always accurate.


None of us claim to be experts, just knowledgeable. Smoky blacks are nearly impossible to identify without testing or random cream dilutes showing up from breeding.


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

Poseidon said:


> None of us claim to be experts, just knowledgeable. Smoky blacks are nearly impossible to identify without testing or random cream dilutes showing up from breeding.


I know this, just wanted to explain that testing is the only sure fire way to know for sure. I wasnt sure but I knew my filly's dam is a smoky black and her sire is a bay roan, that said Bourbon is a carbon copy of her mom right down to the pacman star on her forehead that was always in the back of my mind so for peace of mind I tested her. There are alot of knowledgeable people on here I'd swear to it and I think they are normally spot on but as you said the smoky black is a hard one to call.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

I agree with that. There are 2 or 3 smoky blacks in Abby's pedigree registered as black. I'm not sure what her dam's sire was, but her dam is a buckskin by a horse whose parents are "black" and bay. There are a couple more random cream dilutes that pop up in that line back farther.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

To be honest I've never heard the term brownskin horse before. I tried to google it and nothing came up. Does it have another name?
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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Probably not. Just a brown horse with a cream gene. Brown buckskin.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Peppy Barrel Racing said:


> To be honest I've never heard the term brownskin horse before. I tried to google it and nothing came up. Does it have another name?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We have just been using the term "brownskin", to be honest. The colours doesn't have its own name because it's not actually a known colour until recently when people have tested their horses and they come up brown with cream. It's still not a colour recognized by any sort of registry, I don't think. Unless you know any differently, you'd just call it a really sooty buckskin.


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## QH Gunner (Aug 16, 2011)

I've missed so much on this thread 
I like brownskin haha! To me, much more fitting of the color. I was a little surprised when I looked at my guys papers & saw buckskin. In my color gene lack of knowledge, I woulda thought a golden bay haha! I can't ever tell a smoky black either, try all trick me. All I know is we had a homozygous black stud when I was younger & he almost always threw black & never faded. I always assumed that was black & the ones the faded/didn't look black were actually brown/seal brown something haha! The guessing is fun tho, even tho I feel like a fool compared to all of you who are good at it lol. I would like to test my guy for dun... Bc I'm confused where the red dun colt I got with him came from, but I coulda been lied to by the people too. I don't know what color the mother was haha. You guys are good tho, I've learned more thru previous posts in this forum then ever in my life haha. Colors never mattered to me much I guess. Most of my fuzzies were always just a plain Jane color  

Jeanette- tht mare does look like my guy  

Peppy- I never heard it before now either haha! I googles as well (head down in shame) then NDappy said that's just what theycall him lol 
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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

QH Gunner - You honestly can't tell a smoky black from a normal black unless you test it for cream or it produces a cream dilute foal without the other parent carrying cream. Black horses can be fading or unfading. Unfading stay jet black even if they are outside 24/7. Fading get lighter from sunlight. They aren't any different than an unfading black, it's just like how some people's hair gets lighter in the sun and others' don't.


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## QH Gunner (Aug 16, 2011)

Haha I read that the other day on a post. But that's what I'm saying, I've NEVER had a good mind for this. To me (before I knew better) true black didn't fade & if it did it wasn't black (ashamed at lack of color knowledge) The most I knew is you needed a double creme for cremello bc that's a color I have always wanted, hopefully one day I'll find one to buy. Although, I have been reading alot of threads on here & actually understanding more, so that's good. Minus the apps- their patters & colors & varnish & whatnot lose me from the first sentence lol & they just get all crazy haha!
Oh & lethal white, I have read up on that bc thts just interesting to me. Not really interesting in a good way, but it had me curious. 
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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Lethal white is easier to figure out than you'd think: it's homozygous frame overo. Any frame overo horse you see is heterozygous because two frame genes is lethal. 


Also, this is Abby's great-grandsire. He has to be smoky black because Abby's dam was a buckskin out of a "black" horse (the horse below's foal) and a sorrel mare. 
http://goforbrokestable.tripod.com//sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/dsc00075.jpg


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## QH Gunner (Aug 16, 2011)

Poseidon said:


> Lethal white is easier to figure out than you'd think: it's homozygous frame overo. Any frame overo horse you see is heterozygous because two frame genes is lethal.
> 
> 
> Also, this is Abby's great-grandsire. He has to be smoky black because Abby's dam was a buckskin out of a "black" horse (the horse below's foal) and a sorrel mare.
> http://goforbrokestable.tripod.com//sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/dsc00075.jpg


So you kinda just knew then cuz he threw a creme right? That's how I sorta figured my guys papers were right, cuz his sire was a palomino, dam a brown- which also made sense to me of the "brownskin" I saw all you write about. But if only one parent is a single creme it won't always pass right? or like with a cremello parent it would always be a dilute? Or a perlino? 
On a side note, some blacks have looked a little "smoky" to me in the past- but I never knew such thing existed, so can you always not tell or do some have a different look to em? I'm a pain with the questions, I know 
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## QH Gunner (Aug 16, 2011)

Oh! & yeah I read that about the lethal whites, I always figured it would be more in depth bc it was lethal. Now is that actually what causes the death, or is that like a side effect of what causes the death?
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Edit- I actually looked it up bc I though it had something to do with cremes. See, I'm usually wrong  lol


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

It causes the foal to be born with an underdeveloped colon, which is what causes a painful death within 3 days of birth if it isn't put down right away.

And yes. There is no way Abby's dam could have been a buckskin out of a black and a sorrel. 

From what I've seen, most smoky blacks either look like a fading black or somewhat brown. 

And yes, a single dilute (buckskin, brownskin, palomino, smoky black) will only pass on the cream gene 50% of the time because it only has one gene to pass on. A double dilute (cremello, perlino, smoky cream) will pass on the cream gene every time because it carries two copies of it. 

How would you learn about new things if you don't ask questions? ;-)


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## QH Gunner (Aug 16, 2011)

So because it's a homozygous frame overo it effects the colon?
So odd. 
Haha your right  Questions are good. I never knew their was such genetics to coloring, always thought it was sorta a crabshoot. Haha. 

I needa find me a cremello, or atleast a pally haha. Might keep me happy.
What about a grullo? Is that a dilute too?
Thanks so much for answering all this 
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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Grullo is black + dun. And technically it is a form of a dilute.


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## QH Gunner (Aug 16, 2011)

NdAppy said:


> Grullo is black + dun. And technically it is a form of a dilute.



Well Thank you  I woulda thought since that color has so many different shades it's more difficult  haha!
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## crimsonsky (Feb 18, 2011)

where does one go to get their horse tested for color? i'm curious to know what colors my horses actually are. my TB is registered as dkb/br. (which i assume to mean dark bay/brown?) and my appy colt they registered as "dark bay or brown" and i'm thinking he's probably this brownskin that's been referenced here so many times. haha

it is fun to guess at the color though like others have said. in this case i think brownskin really does apply to the OP's horse.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Horse Tests

Except this is the only place that tests for brown:
Pet DNA Services of AZ - Equine Services


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## crimsonsky (Feb 18, 2011)

Poseidon said:


> Horse Tests
> 
> Except this is the only place that tests for brown:
> Pet DNA Services of AZ - Equine Services


thank you very much!


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