# Bad Farriers!



## Reaver (Oct 5, 2009)

Hey guys,
I just had the worst experience with a farrier about two months ago! Woman came very highly recommended as a Barefoot Trimmer from folks on the ranch where I board. She was fairly new to some people on the ranch, but I figured I would give her a try. Now I have a horse who was an abused horse, and you CAN NOT hit him. You can tell him stand, or yell at him and he will understand that he does something wrong, but if you hit him he gets VERY scared and will not let you near him! I had also only had him for about 4 months when she came to work on him. He had his feet done twice before when I had him though with a different farrier, and did perfectly with no issues. Well this woman comes along, and I even tell her that he was abused and needed a soft and understanding hand with NO hitting. So he does just fine with all three feet until she gets to his back right hoof. He was trying to put his foot down and she didn't even make a noise at him before hitting him FULL SWING with her filing rasp! She hit him right onthe corner of his hip, not even on the meaty part. After that he freaked out and stepped sideways and then would not let her near him. Well we both decided to have her come down on another day to finish the job. I paid her $40, and dhe left....that was my mistake. She never called back. I tried calling her for over 6 weeks every 2-4 days to try and get her out to the ranch to do his last foot. She finally got a hold of me 6 weeks later via TEXT (very unproffessional) and told me that she did not want to be behind my horse. I had no problem with that, but I wish she would have told em that BEFORE I had to wait to try to even get a hold of her. Then I sent her a text back, and requested a refund since the job was never done, and she actually calls me and yells at me like a child. Saying things like "I have no horse sense" and "my horse is too wild to be handled and tried to kill her". She also claims that he was KICKING at her face, and even had a mud mark on her hat, but I didnt see onee mark on her, plus I was holding him, I wouldve known if he kicked (pluys hes a big strong quarterhorse, i fhe wanted to kick her he WOULD have, and even so he is a "flight" not "fight" horse). She never finished the job, never gave me a refund, and verbally abused me and physically abused my horse. I just had a new farrier look at his feet yesterday to do them, and my horse was perfect as before.

Has anyone else had horror stories with their farrier? I was absolutely appalled by this woman's behavior and even had to report her for her actions! Thoughts?

PS: Before any farriers reply, I did apologize to her the day of for him "acting up", though he definitely was not kicking. It was the end of the day, so I think she had a rough day and ended up taking it out on the horse, and then later on me. I am very concerned for the welfare of my farrier when they are under my horse, and I would never put them under a horse that I believed might cause them harm. Though I am still concerned about the welfare of my horse as well, I do understand in full that the hroses training is my job and not the farriers. Plus I told her the whole scoop about my horse and his background, so that she knew that he could not be hit, and she did so anyway.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

If someone needs/wants the name of the farrier in question please do it through PM. Thanks


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Did you call any of her references? How long had she been "trimming"? You have to spend as much time picking a farrier as you would a used car. Also is she a liscenced farrier and with whom is she liscensed? Too many people buy some tools and print business cards and call themselves farriers and the worst of them call themselves barefoot trimmers because they have less tools to buy that way.

The Op has learned her lesson but to all the people that read this :*All trainers and farriers and vets are NOT created equal so do your homework and be a responsible consumer.*


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

Reaver said:


> I was absolutely appalled by this woman's behavior and even had to report her for her actions!


Report her to who?


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## Lunachick (Feb 10, 2010)

That sucks, some people just don't have a lot of patience with animals. Our local vet, despite him being very very good and knowing his job, can be quite rough with the horses and give them a belt if they move at all. He's a horribly grumpy person to begin with, but he's a lot better than some other vets around. 

I had a bad farrier experience last year. I wasnt there at the time, my friend was looking after the horses because I was away. The farrier got his apprentice to the Millie. Now I know he may not have been very experienced, but he failed to recognise that she had the start of signs of laminitis, and barely even trimmed her hooves, they looked like they hadnt even been done. Even if he was an apprentice, our main farrier really should have been looking over what he was doing.


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## Padrona (Apr 13, 2009)

Wow I'm really sorry this happened to you. I'm a trimmer and can't imagine ever striking someone's horse - not with a hand, and especially not with a tool. I even feel rotten if I yell and growl at a horse! Part of being a trimmer or a farrier is understanding the animal you're working on. You have to have patience, understanding, and compassion. When horses are foundered, arthritic, abused, neglected, young, sick, etc. it's all the more important to just take a deep breath, scratch the horse on the chest and try it again. 

If the horse is truly dangerous to myself or the handler I just ask them to put the horse away, give suggestions for training or where to find a trainer, and offer to come back in a few weeks when they've had time to work through the issues. Who benefits when you lose your cool and strike a horse? 

In all fairness, there are always 2 sides of a story, and we're only hearing one. I guess nobody really knows EXACTLY what happened or why, but striking a client's horse is always wrong. I won't even put a chain over the nose or use a twitch, or ANYTHING that could become a liability. It is not my responsibility to discipline the horse. Sometimes when you strike a horse, they strike back, and that's when people get hurt. What if she'd cracked that horse on the butt with the rasp, he ran forward and trampled you and you were seriously injured or killed during the scuffle?

On the first visit, I discuss with horse owners the fact that sometimes good horses act badly and when that happens, everybody needs to take a second to breathe, regroup, do some ground work if necessary, then try again. I don't like it when owners are jerking on a chain or smacking the horse because it makes it dangerous for ME, and likewise if the farrier/trimmer disciplines the horse, it can be dangerous for the handler.

I'm really sorry for your rotten situation. I see you added the farrier's name to the tag line of this thread. I hope she's learned through this experience how important it is to maintain a professional disposition always, regardless of what happens.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

nrhareiner said:


> If someone needs/wants the name of the farrier in question please do it through PM. Thanks


Is that the farriers name in the tags?


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

I have a question - what is an acceptable form of a discipline for a farrier to use on your horse if the horse misbehaves?

It doesn't take much to get my horse to mind my farrier (Solon absolutely loves him). But when Solon starts fussing, my farrier will pop him in his the side with his elbow or call out his name very sternly. 

I'm always of the, there's two sides to every story. I'd think it'd be important to find out her side before passing any judgment on her as a farrier/trimmer.

I tell you though, the horses I have had to see my farrier put up with. I think too many people don't work with their horses enough to stand and behave for the farrier/trimmers. It can be really dangerous work for them. I've seen a farrier smack a horse with the lead rope and deservedly so.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Solon said:


> I have a question - what is an acceptable form of


Unless my horse is doing something that will endanger my farrier, then the only acceptable form of discipline is the discipline I give. Whatever it may be. That being said I highly trust my farrier and would never question his choices in discipline, although I must say, he is the quietest and most patient farrier I have ever known.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

^^She did tell the farrier that yelling/screaming is acceptable, or a firm "stand" would be sufficient to get the horse under control. She also told the farrier expressly NOT to hit the horse. I think a shrill whistle with a "quit it" might have been enough, and he wouldn't have had to even stand up.

Have you ever been hit with a rasp? That alone would deter me from using the farrier again. I can understand a firm pop on the butt with a hand or a lead rope, but even running my hand along anything less than a very dull rasp is uncomfortable. I wouldn't want to slap my horse with it.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

I was asking others justsam, what they found acceptable and yes I have been hit with a rasp.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

If she smacked him with the rasp it's TOTALLY unacceptable. My farrier is very patient with both my mares even though my qh is always looking to make a trick with him (like pretending he's not there or laying down, and yes, she gets punished for that every time and usually stand after that). It's really hard to guess how good is a farrier (as well as vet or trainer), because even with the good recommendations he/she may still not be a good fit. Plus what some people find to be a fantastic job other (more educated) people can call very poor job. 

I'm sorry you had this experience. I'd just keep working on your horse to learn to stay and give hoofs and look for another farrier around.


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## drafteventer (Jul 6, 2009)

I haven't had a horrible experience with a farrier...one time the farrier came to our house to trim our horses after his wife died and started crying on my mom. 
Not too horrible..but now my mom wants to switch farriers because he's always at least an hour late.
He always brags a lot like example: when I was a kid my untrained horse jumped 6 feet lol.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

I'm so glad I have a decent farrier! He's never late (he actually moved _up _my appointment time by an hour once), he knows my horses feet, he does a good job and he's very well priced (35 dollar trim, 85 for trim & front shoes and I think 100 for all four shoes and a trim). I couldn't ask for more than that!


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

My farrier pinched my horse the last time he trimmed her because she decided to lean on him. So she leaned on him, he pinched her, she decided that wasn't very much fun and that was the end of that. She couldn't have been very bothered by it, she happily munched down the handful of grain he offered when she was done, then ran up and down the fence of the back pasture trying to see if he'd give her more (which he did).

I have a very patient and kind farrier, he happened to be out shoeing a different horse the day after mine was delivered. He went over, met her and gave her a handful of grain. After he finished shoeing the other horse, he had me bring her out, he picked up all her feet, stretched out her legs and gave her another handful of grain. He then showed me how to properly clean out her feet, a crack I was to keep washed out and an eye on and some stretching of her legs that he suggested be done daily since she was a little skittish about her feet/legs. We followed his advice and when he came back, she did great.

She's full of energy and feeling really good right now (she's gained 150lbs+ was very underweight when we got her) and is testing her boundaries a bit. So she decided that she'd try leaning this time, he informed her that wasn't acceptable and she stopped. He said he highly doubted she'd try it again next time, she just needed to be told NO.


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

Wow, I'm sorry you had that horrible experience with your horse! I've had one too...

The first farrier I ever used was an older 'set in his way' guy... He wouldn't listen to anything and did my mares hooves his way. I had no say in it at the time because my uncle was paying for the shoeing... Literally, whatever K wanted to do, he did. He messed up one of my mares hooves because she needed (and still needs) to be trimmed and/or shod on that hoof a certain way and he wouldn't see reason. He used a twitch on my girl nearly every time he came out because she had a habit of jerking her hoof away (that's now worked through) and he would reprimand her harshly (which wasn't a way to get her to cooperate, as she's had a hard life before I got her and was afraid of men back then). The final straw came when my mare was around ten months pregnant... we had him out to shoe her since her hooves were cracking slightly and she was moody... the farrier wanted to throw her to shoe her, but both my uncle and me said 'no'. Instead, he decided to tie her leg up to shoe her, and when she panicked, he hit her hard in the stomach with his rasp. I went off on him and really went ballistic... in the end, he finished the shoeing job and left without being paid (there was no way I was paying him after that). I had an argument with my uncle and got myself a new farrier.



My experience with my new (and current and actually certified) farrier has been great. When I called him to come out the first time, he asked all the right questions... how many horses did I have, what were their ages and temperaments, what were their previous experiences with other farriers, how were they used to being treated, did I prefer tieing them or holding them for shoeing, was there anything to not do, was there anything specific he should know about my horses, what type of riding did I do and what types of shoes did I prefer, etcetera... (at the time, I had my mare who had been terrified by my previous farrier and my gelding, who, at the time, was just a few months old and had never had his hooves rasped). When Wiley came out, he talked to me for a while with my horses standing around, letting them get used to him, and he told me where he'd gone to school to learn to shoe and trim and he told me about his own horses and what he did with them (roping). When it was time to start working on their hooves, he took the time to pet, brush, and scratch my horses and really let them both get to know him and he was really slow with them and when he could tell that my mare was going to pull away or my gelding was getting agitated or anything, he stopped, set the leg down, backed up and waited for a few minutes. By the time he was done, we’d gotten through the whole ordeal without any problems at all, even though he’d spent over two hours at the house.

Now, my horses both love Wiley and neither are a problem with him. They trust him... even when he had to shoe my gelding for the first time ever in the rain, everything went fine. I love having a farrier who my horses trust and who teaches me a little bit each time he comes down and who is willing to put time into getting to know me and my horses. Wiley is like an uncle to me, a person who is always happy to talk to me and help me understand things and doesn’t get angry or upset when I ask the same question more than once.


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

To me, acceptable form of punishment would be sternly saying/yelling their name, a sharp 'no!' or 'huh-uh!', or a small slap on the side of the neck/leg (from me). 

The only thing my farrier ever says when my horses act up (if they do, lol) is a 'quit it, boy/girl' or 'huh-uh'... lol.


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## Reaver (Oct 5, 2009)

I am all for verbal discipline with a STAND, QUIT IT, or the horses name. But the hit my horse was given was a baseball swing with a rasp on the POINT of the horses hip. As sorry as I was for my horse getting hit, I was hoping for a mark to show up so that I had something to show for her hitting my horse. 

Believe me, I have a LOT of concern for farriers! it is a very risky and dangerous job. But I also believe that if you are going to be a farrier, you need to be COMPASSIONATE for your job and understand that there is no one type of horse...and deinfitely to NEVER take anything out on the horse (as this hit on the horse was not so much what he did as it was her getting ****ed off and angry). If this particular farrier told me in the middle of finishing the job on my horse that she was not comfortable on him for any reason, I would have paid her for the work she did do and found someone who felt comfortable. This person never even contacted me til 6 weeks after the initial trim, and contacted me with hostility. That is a person who has no regard for the work that she has with the horses as well as no disregard with the people she works with.

**on another note, the person who DID do his feet yesterday was calm and gentle, but did not baby my horse. No pets, no treats, just did his job. But he handled my horse just fine. He has also only been in the business for a couple o fyears and did wonderfully. I liked that because I do not want my horse to EXPECT that he is going to get pets and treats by every farrier that comes by, because most farriers are not like that. But He spoke to my horse very calmy, saying 'easy big guy' and 'you're ok' in very quiet tones, and that was all my horse needed to practically fall asleep. Could also be that my horse just prefers men, I dunno! But I at least found a good farrier that understood what my horse needed.


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## Reaver (Oct 5, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> Did you call any of her references? How long had she been "trimming"? You have to spend as much time picking a farrier as you would a used car. Also is she a liscenced farrier and with whom is she liscensed? Too many people buy some tools and print business cards and call themselves farriers and the worst of them call themselves barefoot trimmers because they have less tools to buy that way.
> 
> The Op has learned her lesson but to all the people that read this :*All trainers and farriers and vets are NOT created equal so do your homework and be a responsible consumer.*


I had checked with several others on the ranch about her, and they all ranted and raved about her. But she just didnt treat me or my horse with any edicate. Dunno if she was having a bad day or if she is just an attitud-ey person, but she was very unproffessional about the matter. ...and I definitely learned my lesson regarding proper researching, as ranch-hearsay is no longer good enough in my book.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

Do you think she would agree if she saw this online? Since you named her and her business in the tags?


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## Reaver (Oct 5, 2009)

Well I bet shed say that he tried to kick her, though I would have seen a kick (since I was holding him), but otherwise there is nothing in here that she can argue. My husband was there when she called me and can vouch for the way she spoke to me when she did call, and boy was that fun >XP.


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## Padrona (Apr 13, 2009)

Acceptable discipline varies from horse to horse. I trim a couple of extremely stubborn/dull cold blooded horses that probably wouldn't notice if you dropped a grenade under their backside. But I also trim a lot that are sensitive and more reactive. The same discipline for both styles of horse wouldn't be appropriate. 

The Fjords and Hafflingers I do will try to lean and lay down on me so I use the point of my elbow firmly planted in their side. They figure out pretty quickly that the sharp elbow digging into their rib isn't fun so they stand back up straight. I don't jab or slam them with it. I just tuck my arm in close to my body with the elbow toward the horse and when they lay into it, they get some uncomfortable pressure.

The hotter horses I do like TBs and Arabs are usually good with a "Stand Up!" and nothing else. Each horse is different.

When a horse is truly being belligerant, no attention span, putzing around worried about the other horses or getting too antsy, I either have the owner do some ground work for a minute or two, or I do it. Step back, over, come up, whoa. It gets their mind back on the task and makes them understand that the humans have the ability to move their feet.

Some youngsters or ones that haven't been handled much need distraction with a hay bag hung on the wall, or they need to go for a walk down the aisle and back after each hoof. 

The take home message is that at the end of the day:

1. I can't get hurt.
2. You can't get hurt.
3. Horse can't get hurt.
4. Horse has to be calmer at the end of the trim than at the beginning.
5. Everything has to be positive, even if discipline was needed.
6. Everybody has to remember that discipline and punishment are two different things. Depending on the horse, humane and compassionate discipline can be administered professionally and safely but in my opinion, punishment is NEVER the responsibility or right of the farrier (or vet). I personally define punishment as hitting, screaming (versus a stern word or the horse's name), jerking on a chain, or otherwise harassing, scaring, or inflicting severe pain to the horse.

It takes me 20 minutes to do the average trim, but I allow 30 per trim in case there are issues. If the time used goes beyond 30 minutes then I either charge an additional fee for my time, or I reschedule that horse if I have to get to another barn. This prevents me from feeling rushed or stressed because I'm spending too much time, will be late for the next appointment, or am not getting paid for my time.

Also I know my limits on how many horses I can treat/trim/see in a day without getting too tired. I don't over-book myself if possible, and if a day is particularly busy, I put the "worst" horses at the start of the day and the best ones at the end of the day. So for instance, I'm not going to add a new unhandled 2 year old to my last stop of the day when I'm tired and just want to go home. But I will schedule that horse first thing in the morning and I will schedule other apointments accordingly so I have double or triple the time allotted in the book for that horse that will undoubtedly be a problem. Yes, you'll pay for that extra time but I promise it will be worth it


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## Reaver (Oct 5, 2009)

Padrona said:


> The take home message is that at the end of the day:
> 
> 1. I can't get hurt.
> 2. You can't get hurt.
> ...


Right on! Thats how it should be. There at least needs to be an understanding of what the horse owner wants for the horse if discipline IS needed during the trim. I told mine what she couldnt do and she did it anyway, which is a no-no in my book. She jsut got too frustrated and took it out on the horse, which is not fun for a horse owner to deal with. 

Plus I forgot to mention, my horse was spooking at my water scraper near his butt after that! I rinsed him off several days later after he got smacked, and i hadnt even touched the scraper to him yet and he was stepping way from me, and he is NOT afraid of me! So I have been petting him with my scraper and then moved up to a rasp over the last couple of weeks to recondition him to not be afraid of the rasp itself on his next trim. So that is also the fault of the farrier hitting my horse.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

Reaver - did you remove the tags so she wouldn't see this thread? Or did the Moderator?

I think the most important thing an owner can do is make sure the horse is trained well for the farrier and vet. Not enough people do this (not saying that is the case for the OP).


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## Reaver (Oct 5, 2009)

looks like a mod did it, cuz I dont think you can actually edit the tags on the first post. I don't really care if she saw it or not.

As for my horses training, he is obviously still being desensitized to a lot of stuff due to his previous issues (definitely abused), but had no issues with the previous farriers until this particular farrier came along. I completely understand that the training is for the owner to do, not the farrier. But I think that the farriers also need to respect how the owner trains their horses, and to oblige the owner with their methods of disciplining and NOT the farriers. If the farrier is not comfortable working with those conditions, then they should tell the owner that they are not comfortable working with the horse in those conditions and have the owner find a farrier who will work with their standards. This person blatantly ignored how I wanted my horse treated, so she will get no respect form me or my horse for the way we were treated.

I completely agree with Padrona's difference between "discipline" and "punishment". My horse was hit harshly for something that just talking to him calmly wouldve fixed, and was then even more fear-filled after that. NOT how to handle an abused horse, at least not this one in particular.


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## spence (Nov 8, 2009)

the problem that my wife and i tend to have the most is finding a farrier at ALL. there's a few of them around, but i have not been able to consistently get the same farrier out more than once. i had one guy with WONDERUL credintials come out and trim/shoe my app and he did great. and his prices are plenty acceptable. however, when i tried to call him (for over a month) to come back out and do all three horses, he was not to be found.

called another kid to come do them, and he never even bothered to show. finally i paid my brother to come out and trim them, and he did a fine job. he just takes a while, and i won't be able to use him when i start needing shoes in the spring.

we've got a strange lot as well. the app is generally ok, but he can be a little goofy. the grey doesn't cause any problems until you get to his back leg on his blind side, and then he's just a little jumpy. the TB is usually the pain, and when my bro came and did them we think that he's had some sort of bad experience before based on how the other two farriers that have trimmed him before got the job done as opposed to my brother's methods (which were just generally more friendly and taking breaks when needed).

i really really would like to find a CONSISTENT farrier to come get them done so that we have someone who knows our horses and their hooves so they're done consistently and perhaps we can avoid problems as well and try new things without the variables of different farriers and their methods.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

OP I am confused. If you hated this trimmer so much because they were horribly mean to your horse and you found their treatment of your horse totally unacceptable, etc, etc, why did you want them to come back and finish? I would think that if you were _that_ offended by her treatment of your horse (since you are implying she has set back his training and all) you would not want her to touch your horse again and you would be immediately hiring a different farrier/trimmer to come out and finish the job. Not wasting 6 weeks begging someone you do not trust to come back.

It almost sounds like you are more upset about the farrier not coming back and not returning your calls than you are about the farrier hitting your horse. And how dare the farrier say your horse kicked.

I only hire professionals (trainer, farrier, vet) that I trust with my horses. 

If you were holding your horses head you could have easily missed a kick. Or what felt like a kick to the person who is underneath your horse.

My farrier is the one whose life is in danger underneath my horse. I leave discipline/corrections to him (something we have discussed) because me correcting at the head can lead to more problems for him underneath. There have been times where I actually thought the farrier should have been more stern with my horse than he was. I find anything that puts the farrier at risk to be wrong and my horses know better.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

My farrier/vet/other equine professional is allowed to discipline my horse if I don't get to him first when he's acting like a butthead.

OP, you said you hated how she treated your horse, and yet you hounded her for 6 weeks trying her to get her to come back and finish the job. Why?

If anyone deliberately mishandles an animal of mine, I pay them for their time and tell them they're not welcome back on the property.

Anything else that needs to be done will be finished by another professional, and I'll pay another fee.

So, are you angry that she over disciplined your horse, or is the real reason you're upset because she told you your horse is dangerous, and she wouldn't come back? 

Also, how do you know your horse was abused before you got him? Just because he acts like a major freakshow about some things doesn't necessarily mean he was abused, just that he might be an illmannered puke.

Unless you actually _saw_ the animal being abused and pulled him out of an abusive situation, I wonder how you have any real way to know that he was. 

I have a gelding who can be an illmannered puke when he doesn't want to do something. He wasn't abused by his previous owner, and I sure as heck haven't abused him. 

She spoiled him rotten and treated him like a 4-legged person though, which accounted for a lot of his 'tude when I got him. I discipline and treat him like a horse, not a 'fur baby'. 

I get tired of people who say, "Poor Pookie MUST have been abused! Look at the way he reacts!", when all Pookie needs is a come to Jesus meeting, and made to behave.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

It really is not hard to get a horse to stand really well for a farrier but it can take a little time and consistency which is what most people refuse to offer their horses. If you pick up your horses feet and hold them and move them around a little each day and maybe tap on them with something that will make a metallic sound there is no reason why the farrier should have to discipline your horse. Even if the horse has been "abused" with consistent, knowledgeable handling in a short time the horse should be good with his feet. 

Slightly off topic I once worked on a ranch in the sandhills of nebraska and there were some really well broke ranch horses that would kick your face off if you tried to pick up a foot. The ground is all sand there and many horses go thier whole lives without ever having thier feet trimmed because if they are ridden much the sand wears the hoof down. In fact the only time I saw a horse with shoes on was one that was ridden too much and the sand wore the hoof sore. Shoes didn't last as long there either.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

I never would have paid a farrier that hit my horse in the first place...


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

Reaver said:


> Has anyone else had horror stories with their farrier? I was absolutely appalled by this woman's behavior and even had to report her for her actions! Thoughts?


I'm surprised you wanted that farrier to come back :shock: abuse or not, I would have put my foot down after the rasp incident. Be glad she did you the favor of not coming back. Hope you found someone else since who's going to be taking the time and patience on your poor guy.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

Sorry for the double post but I just had to add that I spend ALOT of time getting my horses ready for the farrier. Before the farrier ever comes out my horses can all stand without a halter and lead rope and have their feet messed with for at least half an hour. 

When the farrier is here we always halter them and I hold them and will watch for their reactions. IF my horses were to ever kick out at my farrier I would allow him to give them a swat, I would do the same thing if it were me getting my head kicked at. There are in a dangerous situation, not you. 

But I would also NEVER have a farrier back or pay them for a service that wasn't done or hitting my horse for no reason.


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## hccumminssmoke (Oct 19, 2009)

farmpony84 said:


> I must say, he is the quietest and most patient farrier I have ever known.


I've got ya beat, the amish do all our shoeing and trimming, and for $35 four shoes all the way around, and $10 to trim, I've never seen them get angry, i dont think amish can get mad LOL

Nate


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## paintluver (Apr 5, 2007)

I am so sorry about your horse being hit, but why on earth did you want her to come back?
If she is hitting your horse, and texting you, that is just total unproffesional (In my opintion).
Something like that happened to my Demi before I bought her, she was beat by her old farrier really badly. I told my farrier, he actually did get to trim one foot before she had enough, but he told me ways to help her gain her confidence back.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

hccumminssmoke said:


> I've got ya beat, the amish do all our shoeing and trimming, and for $35 four shoes all the way around, and $10 to trim, I've never seen them get angry, i dont think amish can get mad LOL
> 
> Nate


I wish there were some Amish around here. I do my own but if someone would do it for $35 I would never do it again.


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## Reaver (Oct 5, 2009)

**First of all, this thread was for members to express their experiences with bad farriers, NOT to attack me and my situation. To answer several comments about why I even tried to contact the farrier again (and SAID that I wanted her to come back), I had paid her for a full job and expected it to either be done the first day. I knew when I was calling her that when she got back to me I would not let her near my horse to finish his foot, because of the hit and such. But I did want her to try to contact me back so I could talk to her about the situation and attempt to get at LEAST a partial refund. The only reason that his feet were not done by another farrier in the meantime is that the farrier that I found (about 2 weeks later) that sounded like a good fit ended up not being able to do it until 6 weeks after the initial trim from the bad farrier ince his schedule was full. So I never had any intention of letting this woman touch my horse again, I just wanted her to get back to me. The whole not getting refunded thing was entirely my fault, as I already had the check made out for $40 and just wanted her to leave after hitting my horse. Not realizing that I never even wanted to complete the full trim. So paying her in full if at all was my lesson learned. I feel bad for not paying a person service after they did do the work, but after her unproffessionalism I’ll never let that get to me again if I don’t think a farrier did a good job. I also know that the horse did not kick, because I would have seen it…so no, I did not just miss that. Plus the horse did just fine with the farrier that I did get to finish the job, so I blame the first farrier for that whole situation. If a farrier is at the end of their day as she was, she was probably in a bad mood and had a bad attitude (and it came out for sure), and so it was rubbing off on the horse and then when he started getting antzy she hit him out of her own frustration. The new farrier was calm and didn’t have to even correct my horse, just told him “easy” and he was fine. I didn’t even warm him up or work him out or anything, he just stood there. I also know that my horse was abused for a fact because I got him from a rescue situation form a property I used to live by (really bad neighbors I found out XP). He was very untrustworthy of people when I got him and is super ear shy from being hit(he was hit in the ears as a method of discipline). So I do know for a fact that he was abused. And to whomever said “just that he might be an illmannered puke”, your wrong…flat out…as I know that he was abused and that his behavior is justified. It is getting worked out in his training.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Um, but.... gee.... In your original post you said this:



Reaver said:


> I tried calling her for over 6 weeks every 2-4 days to try and get her out to the ranch to do his last foot. She finally got a hold of me 6 weeks later via TEXT (very unproffessional) and told me that she did not want to be behind my horse. I had no problem with that, but I wish she would have told em that BEFORE I had to wait to try to even get a hold of her.


That sure sounds like you were trying to get her to come back and do the last foot.

No?

I guess I am missing something on the refund thing. What do you want back? $10?


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

to the OP: If you get defensive toward the people on this board you will not get much good advice and be very frustrated. Try not to overreact when people post things you don't agree with.


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## 5cuetrain (Dec 11, 2009)

Ferriers and Vets are not horse trainers period. They should expect that the horse is trained to accept what they have to do.

Unfortunately this is not the case.

The choice is simple--train the horse to stand--hire someone to train the horse to stand or accept the methods of the ferrier to get his job done without getting hurt. A trip to the hospital and several days off cost several thousand dollars--quite a risk for a payment of a hundred or so.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

hccumminssmoke said:


> I've got ya beat, the amish do all our shoeing and trimming, and for $35 four shoes all the way around, and $10 to trim, I've never seen them get angry, i dont think amish can get mad LOL
> 
> Nate


I really like the way they work with their horses. There is always the good and the bad, but generally speaking I really like how they work and train their horses.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

My2Geldings said:


> I really like the way they work with their horses. There is always the good and the bad, but generally speaking I really like how they work and train their horses.


People that use thier horses for thier livelyhood tend to handle them much differently than people that use them for recreation or a hobby.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

I've had an interesting experience with a farrier - but in NO WAY do I blame the farrier. There will always be horses that don't click with certain people and vice versa.

We had used this guy for years - really nice guy, offered me rides on his horses - A real bushie and rough around the edges but got the job done.

So i got a new horse - A big 16h ASH gelding - Who had been run around and into the wall of a yard by station hands nto long before I got him. He was a lovely, docile horse on the ground, unless you hit him - He was very much a 'fight' horse as opposed to 'flight'. If he felt endagered he would get nasty. He was a bully in the paddock as well. In addition, he had hyper sensitive skin - The little black flys that are usually harmless would bite him and he would come up in lumps.

So the farrier was doing his feet one day and he was twitchy and jumpy due to the flies. The farrier dug the end of his rasp into his belly to get him to stand - Bad move. Horse flies forward, knocks dad (holding) over, and boots the farrier full in the thigh. Couldn't even finish the job. He came back when he was healed and finished the job, but we didn't get him back again. 

Nothing against that farrier - his personality just didn't match the horse I had. I can't blame him for that.

We've been through a few since (big problem where I live of farriers not showing up) and our current one is great. Lovely guy, great sense of humour. He trimmed Latte for the first time. I thought she would be fine - She was a bit stubborn with picking feet up when I got her but by this time I could pick up all her feet fine.

But nope, as soon as he touched her she turned into a quivering mess and was terrified the whole time. He was lovely and patient - We don't know what the issue was, something in her past - But he handled it great.


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## Reaver (Oct 5, 2009)

see with the previous story though, did you talk to the farrier about not smacking your horse? Im not sure if your horse just doesnt "like" being hit or actually is afraid of being hit, as I see them as two different things. A horse who is afraid to be hit should not be hit, until they understand that hitting is a form of discipline and not punishment. With the farrier that hit my boy, I specifically said that she could not hit him, and she did so anyway. So I wouldnt blame your farrier either for what happened, he was just doing what he learned, and just didnt really consider the individual hore he was workin on.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

^ he was afraid, and his way of dealing with fear was to turn aggressive - Like wild stallion snakey head aggressive.

I understand that you're mad that she hit your horse when you had expressedly said not to.

BUT - If that is the way she usually deals with horses, she may have just acted on instinct in the moment. I know if I have a hold of a horses leg and they threaten to kick I immediatly react in my own way. 

I would never tell my farrier what they can and can't do with my horse - they are the one in danger. i tell them ABOUT my horse, and what likely reactions might be, but if they think they are in danger then I expect them to do whatever they feel is necessary to be safe - Just as I would. The horses state of mind comes second to the persons safety in this instance - To me, anyway.


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## charlicata (Jan 12, 2010)

I understand about the personalities meshing between the horse and the farrier. I had a guy come out and do my previous horse, Ty. It took the guy 3 1/2 hours to put the 2 front shoes on and trim the back. I used him twice. The second time, Ty's foot slipped off of the stand and skinned the farrier's finger. Both times he was out, he took the stud chain out of his truck and put it on Ty himself, then would grab the lead out of my hand and start jerking around. Not only that, but he left a sloppy job. Ty had a crack in one of his feet. The first time, the guy scored a mark at the top of the crack. The second time, when he took the shoes off, he hadn't rasped the end of the nails good enough, and tore a big chunk off of the foot that was cracked! I asked what he could do to clean it up a little bit and he said "nothing, just put hoof conditioner on it, it'll make it grow a little faster. I'll trim it out when I come back." After that, I realized that he was not the farrier for Ty. I started asking around, and found the farrier that I currently use. The very first time he was out, it took him all of 30 mins to do EVERYTHING! When Ty started acting up, he held his hand out for the lead, backed Ty up just by walking towards him, and had a quiet...but stern talk with him (I couldn't hear what he was saying, but heard the tone of voice). When he calmly led him back for me to hold, Ty didn't move a muscle. We took him back down to the barn, and the BO came out. He asked if everything was ok. He actually thought that the new farrier didn't get the job done, and gave up...because of the amount of time it took the previous guy. When the farrier told the BO that he was done, he actually had to go in and look at Ty's feet. He looked up and told the guy what he had thought when he saw us leading Ty back to the barn. Then he looked at me and said that his feet looked 100% better. Now, that farrier is doing his miniature donkeys too. And if he's going to be late, he always either calls me himself; or has his wife call. Both of them are WONDERFUL people!!!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

wild_spot said:


> I would never tell my farrier what they can and can't do with my horse - they are the one in danger. i tell them ABOUT my horse, and what likely reactions might be, but if they think they are in danger then I expect them to do whatever they feel is necessary to be safe - Just as I would. The horses state of mind comes second to the persons safety in this instance - To me, anyway.



Well said Wild_spot!


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## Seahorseys (Nov 14, 2009)

I love my farrier. He's the first and last one I'll use. Frida was 4 and have never been trimmed and was barely a pro at picking up her feet and his whole energy and way he went about things was top notch. I could tell it was going to be fine just by the way he walked in and his first interaction with her. He allows just the right amount of wiggling but always knows when Fri's brinking on disrespect, and it's always dealt with in a calm, horse-sensible manner, no hitting at all.


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

^^ 
I think it is an on the spot call. Whacking hard on a bony area with a piece of iron is never a good thing. On the other hand, a smack on the underside/belly with the flat side of the rasp may be fine. My trimmer will get after them for misbehavior (laying on her, trying to take the foot away without a good reason, etc) and that is fine with me. I also think when told a horse will react badly to being hit but will straighten up with a growl that a growl should be used. I dont think you're going to get the best cooperation from a horse while you are under them via a hard hit with an unforgiving object on a bony area from above. 

I do leave the majority of discipline to the trimmer as she knows what's going on at her end. We also discuss things when there is a problem. Heck, mine behave better if I'm not at their head so I loop the lead around a post a couple times and just keep an eye out. *I don't tie hard for trimming as I feel there is potential for a big wreck if something unusual happens.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Appyt said:


> I think it is an on the spot call. Whacking hard on a bony area with a piece of iron is never a good thing.


Logically - if the horse was actually hit the way the OP describes (hard with the corner of the rasp on the bony part) I would guess the horse would end up cut on its leg and probably be lame. So most likely it was the flat part against a fleshy part.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

^ Plus the farrier would no longer be underneath the horse.


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

Hip hit as I recall.. and that's right wild spot.  Wouldn't matter to me as a hit on the rump where the horse can see it coming isn't effective. But you could get kicked for it.


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## Reaver (Oct 5, 2009)

wild_spot said:


> I would never tell my farrier what they can and can't do with my horse - they are the one in danger. i tell them ABOUT my horse, and what likely reactions might be, but if they think they are in danger then I expect them to do whatever they feel is necessary to be safe - Just as I would. The horses state of mind comes second to the persons safety in this instance - To me, anyway.


Hitting the horse AFTER you are out of harms way isnt protecting yourself. If a farrier has to hit a horse to keep him from getting to them that would be one thing, but hitting after they are out of harms way when the owner of the horse has already discussed not hitting the horse is unacceptable.


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## Reaver (Oct 5, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Logically - if the horse was actually hit the way the OP describes (hard with the corner of the rasp on the bony part) I would guess the horse would end up cut on its leg and probably be lame. So most likely it was the flat part against a fleshy part.


Horse was hit on the corner of his hip, but with the flat side of the rasp, not the edge.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> Hitting the horse AFTER you are out of harms way isnt protecting yourself. If a farrier has to hit a horse to keep him from getting to them that would be one thing, but hitting after they are out of harms way when the owner of the horse has already discussed not hitting the horse is unacceptable.


Relax - I actually agree.

I am just saying that I would never tell a farrier what they can/can't do as it is their neck they are risking. But what seems a vengeful whack after the incident would not be ok.

I wasn't there so I don't know the full story so don't want to speculate wether the farrier was right or wrong.


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## bloodhoundmom28 (Jun 1, 2009)

The way i feel is that its MY horse and I am paying for a service to be done the way I want it not the way they want to do it. I always give a history to the guy that does my horses hooves and he is very patient with both me and my horses. But on the other hand before he trims a new horse i have already messed with its hooves with an old rasp of mine so i get a feel of what he/she is like. On the other hand my gelding HATES men touching his hooves so i pick them up and hand it to my guy to trim it takes longer but my horse stands nice and there are no mishaps. I correct my own animal because i dont want them to have a neg tude to the person they only see once every 6 weeks. I agree you told her not to hit she should not have struck the horse. On the other hand i do pay $35 a horse for a barefoot trim and thats high the norm here is $25 BUT I get what i pay for patient and he does it MY way. I trust him and he trusts me if i have questions i can ask him and he does the same with me its a great working relationship as it should be.


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