# Help! My horse is suddenly aggressive!



## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Sounds like someone discovered the missing testicle... 

The first thing I'd do is call you vet, explain the symptoms and see if they could come out and run some tests on him. My friends mare had lymes disease and it made her SUPER crotchety. Maybe it's neurologically biased? Maybe you could also discuss removal of the other testicle. 

Next thing other be to call a professional trainer who works with "problem" horses. What your horse is doing isn't a joke, and it sounds like you understand that. My fear is that you will act upon internet advice, correct the horse and it will backfire on you meaning you horse will attack you for escalating the situation. Not good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

Get a trainer to work with you that specializes in dealing with aggressive horses. Why have you not had the surgery done to remove the undescended testicle? He is continually testing you because he is a stallion. He is not a gelding, he is an intact stallion, he is being pumped full of testosterone because of the retained testicle. I would address that, if you don't it is likely this will all continue and he will constantly test you.

ETA I have dealt with what you are dealing with now, not quite to the extent because the horse I'm talking about was gelded late not cryptorchid. But you can definitely get hurt very easily and with this type of horse you cannot out aggress them, as a matter of fact that normally just blows up in your face. This type of horse knows they're much bigger than you are and will full well take advantage of it.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Well you've had 11 years to fix the ground issues which hasn't happened... start there.

Definitely agree with the other posters though.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

First & foremost, thinking pain/discomfort/illness, if his change has been sudden without apparent reason. Magnesium deficiency, potassium overload, back/saddle pain, ulcers.... to name a few possibilities.

While I'd definitely discuss testes with the vet, I suspect it's nothing to do with hormones if it's just started.

But agree with Yogi & others that it sounds like you need an experienced trainer's help & if he's been 'ornary' on the ground for so long without being taught better, also possibililty that he hasn't really changed that much, just that it's gradually got to the point where it's now obviously dangerous.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

You shouldn't let him do what he feels like doing.

JW what do you do when he strikes or kicks at you lunging?


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

It all starts on the ground. The fact that you let him get away with walking all over you in the stable and have not corrected it means he is having his way.

A problem with a cryptorchid is that the retained testicle can often turn cancerous. Call the vet and have him tested.


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## Thoroughbredlover33 (Mar 19, 2014)

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I was going to have tests run on him in May anyways, since that's the next time the vet will be able to come to the stables. I really want them done sooner, but it would cost $500 to call them out right now. I'd already talked to the vet about having the other testicle removed, but she said since it's so far inside of him, it could be very dangerous to try and remove it. It would be very difficult to get a trainer, seeing as there aren't many in my area and my grandma is too crotchety to spend the money to fix this problem. I'm not afraid of him, I'm afraid for him, because I know that if he keeps this up, he's going to seriously hurt himself or someone else. I've also discussed not boarding him in a stall, but in the pasture because of how high strung he is. I'm definitely going to try to get my grandparents to spend the money on a trainer and to get the vet out here as soon as possible. I also have the chiropractor coming to visit in a few weeks, which I already had planned before he started acting like this.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

OK, I would stay off his back, at least until the chiro gives you & your saddle the all clear. I'd also quit lunging him or otherwise attempting to force exercise until you're sure it's not related to soundness/pain. It also sounds like he is locked in a stable a lot/most of the time? This is not good for any horse, on a number of levels & that constant stress may be exacerbating other issues.

A magnesium supp wouldn't hurt & may help. Horses are very commonly deficient in this very important mineral & being under stress, whether physical or mental, makes the body use it up more.

What's his diet & general management?


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Sorry to be blunt, but Grandma can spend the $$ on fixing the horse or trying to put you back together when you get hurt-or worse. Why would it not occur to you that YOU may be the "someone else" this horse hurts? Get a trainer and a vet. Only other choice-well, you really won;t like that one, but it would be much less expensive, and if this horse keeps getting worse-that MAY be what is needed. Waiting weeks for vets, chiros, etc is not an option if you want this horse to have any hope.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

> I'm definitely going to try to get my grandparents to spend the money on a trainer and to get the vet out here as soon as possible


 I don't know how old you are, but this is a bit of a pet peeve of mine. If you have a horse, figure out how to earn the money and pay for it. I cant imagine asking my grandparents to pay for something I was capable of earning the money to pay for it myself, nor could I ever understand disrespecting my grandparent by using terms such as "crotchety". I might be a little grumpy as well if a relative came up to me demanding hundreds of dollars of my money be spent on their form of recreation. 

anyways, to the subject at hand. As was already mentioned, he needs to be checked for pain and tested by a vet. As you mentioned in your first post, he's always had issues on the ground, so I would go back to the beginning and fix those now. Teach him to stand quietly while his lead is looped around a post while he is brushed and handled. Make sure he stays a respectful distance away while being led. Once you have the vet and chiro rule out pain, and further investigate the crypt issue, then you can really look into training. if the problem is not physical, then you can look to the training side of things. If his stabling has been the same for the years you've had him, I think it would be safe to say that the issue lies with you as the handler, and both you and the horse need training.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

If he is cryptorchid than it will be a more expensive surgery and more invasive. That said, it is worth doing. I don't think this behavior is as out of the blue as you may see it. It sounds like he has been testing for a little while. As for fixing it, get a trainer or a shot gun. He is dangerous, he could kill you and you need to address that. That means a vet to geld him, a trainer to have a "meeting of the minds" with him and than to teach the both of you how to interact together.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

IF this is due to testosterone, be careful with him in the pasture. No mares, possibly no geldings, (nearby too!) good fencing he respects, etc.

*You HAVE a stallion, treat him like a stallion.*

The FIRST sentence in your FIRST post is the reason you are having an issue.. "My Thoroughbred gelding." He has testicles, he is not a gelding, stop thinking of him like that!! (Though I advocate complete ground work for any horse.) Even if it is due to testosterone, I'm not saying that you want that, but at the same time, _there is no excuse for a stallion to act like this, in fact there is LESS of an excuse for a stallion to act like this_. You need to stay on his manners every. single. second. He should be perfectly behaved at all times. You need to instantly start treating him like what he is. _A good stallion is that much better behaved than any other horse!_

I hope you follow me. Also, it's good that you aren't afraid of him, but at the same time I hope you have a healthy dose of respect for the fact he's dangerous and you seriously hurt you. Don't get hurt!! Do you mind me asking how old you are? Do you have the experience to deal with a horse like this? It very well could be pain, and I agree you shouldn't work him until you have this checked out, but as I said in my first post, you already said he can't do basic things like tie, or stand still on the cross ties, and now you're wondering why he's rearing? I'm seeing user error here. You are dealing with a stallion and haven't taught him basic manners. It can escalate very, very, easily. The key to being a good horse handler isn't dealing with dangerous horses, it's not letting the horse be dangerous.

ANY horse can be dangerous if you let it be, food for thought.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

If you eliminate pain related issues & things like ulcers, encysted worms, dental issues and Lymes disease that can all give enough discomfort to make a horse cranky then you have to go back to the start and insist on better manners all around because his recent behavior is probably just a progression from his bad attitude in the stable - he's pushing a bit at a time to see how much he can get away with and its working
I would get the cryptorchid thing fixed because its quite likely having an effect on his behavior because he's still producing testosterone and has all the desires of a stallion. I have known experienced horse people say that they can be worse to handle than a stallion as inclined to be more moody and I did know a pony that would jump out of its field and go in search of mares in the area when they were in season
I could suggest a trainer after you get the operation out of the way but it might change his temperament enough for you to have no more problems with him - if it doesn't I honestly think that horses like this that are so challenging are best sold to someone who knows how to deal with them.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

As far as gelding though, not only is it more complicated (and expensive) the horse is also 16.

I know a friend was trying to get quotes from the vet on gelding her 12 year old and they were pretty extreme and the vets didn't really want to do it. It may be easier said then done.

If he had to have a complicated surgery I would of had it done when he was young.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I'm going to sound like a horrible person here - so please forgive me because I'm only speaking from my own personal stance and not telling the OP or anyone else that they should do it - but I wouldn't spend the money having this horse gelded at this age if it was mine, if his behavior is being caused by his condition then I'd pass him on to someone who wanted a horse that was so challenging all the time or have him euthanized and find something I could enjoy - because there are plenty of horse out there looking for homes that are easy to do and wouldn't dream of taking advantage in this way.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I do agree with that. Especially after seeing the trouble to get a 12 year old, both testicles dropped, bred maybe twice stallion gelded. (She ended up selling him instead, horse really doesn't need to be a stallion but hopefully he won't be bred again)

We are talking about a complicated procedure and high rates, on an older horse which will make it more complicated and more expensive not to mention far more stressful on the horse himself. Even if you did that, it won't necessarily change the behavior, if it does it won't change the bad manners he's learned. This horse should of been gelded awhile ago, but as it stands I do agree with jaydee.

As I said before, OP please stop thinking of him as a gelding. He is not. That is a HUGE issue.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

OP-you are in Pennsylvania, not the end of the earth. You have at least 3 excellent horse facilities within a reasonable distance. New Bolton, over near Philly, Cornell is just over the border in NY, and another facility in Leesburg, VA about an hour south of Gettysburg. Any one of the three is more than capable of handling the surgery your STALLION needs. Will it be cheap-no. Neither will a trainer. The cheap option is the shot gun.


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## Thoroughbredlover33 (Mar 19, 2014)

Well, for those who are annoyed with me not having my own money, I'm 13 years old. I can't get a job. As for everything else, I had the chiropractor come today after school and finally convinced my grandparents to make a call to the vet. His back was fine, his saddle was fine. I've found the problem. A girl that rides at the stable has been using him late at night. She has been lunging and riding him for the past three weeks, she said. There's my issue. I asked her what she had used while riding him. She was using a harsh bit, a poorly fitted saddle, and a crop and spurs. She had also tried tying him to the wall, and he freaked out several times. She also had a chain over his nose while lunging him. The owner told the girl she is no longer welcome at the stables. I'm going to give him a few days to just relax and then work my way back into lunging and riding him. Thanks for the help. The vet will be coming in two weeks to run some tests to see if anything is wrong with his testosterone levels. He's turned out daily and is surely not confined to a stall. I'm just glad I found the reason why my horse got so aggressive two weeks ago, and now I can work on fixing the issue.


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## equitate (Dec 14, 2012)

What equipment are you using to lunge? Any pix of the riding? (Are there mares around?)


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## Thoroughbredlover33 (Mar 19, 2014)

I use a lunge line and a lunge whip, but I never touch him with the whip. There is only one mare, a 33 year old. I may have a pic or two of me riding. They're not fantastic.


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## Thoroughbredlover33 (Mar 19, 2014)

I use only a 30 ft lunge line and a lunge whip. Nothing else. I know he should've been gelded, but I got him when he was 11 years old after my riding instructor rescued him. We were told he was gelded, and we were able to get his papers. He is registered as a gelding, so we never suspected that he wasn't a gelding, especially since he was always well behaved under saddle, but was just impatient while tacking and grooming.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Yogiwick said:


> As far as gelding though, not only is it more complicated (and expensive) the horse is also 16.


Can be some serious complications at that age too, just gelding, let alone if one is undescended & needs abdominal surgery.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Cryptorchids lead a frustrating life. Hormones tell them they are a stallion yet they get no relief. Thoroughbreds are forward thinking horses and need to be moving, going somewhere, not round and round in mindless circles, whether on a lunge line or riding arena. Do you trail ride him? They can make the greatest trail horses willing to take on challenges. My gelding detested ring work and would shut down on the 20 min. mark, but point him out the driveway and he was ears up and ready to go. People often get caught up so much with riding with a trainer that they forget to take the horse out for a mental refresher. Should you ever sell this horse I hope that by it's behaviour someone doesn't claim you abused it and that they rescued this abused horse from you.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

So... if you are 13yo & have more needs than money, can you offer to do some jobs for your grandparents, neighbours or such, if you can't get a job further afield? 

But I'm not sure I follow, is this horse yours? You mention 'the owner' when talking about this other girl riding him. If he's yours, I would be ropeable to learn someone had been playing with my horse without my permission! But perhaps that's the deal for the board, or you're leasing him or such. If so, I'd change that immediately & tell the property owners in no uncertain terms that no one else is to deal with him without your permission. That may mean it'll cost more for board...

So, this girl sounds like the catalyst for his sudden behavioural change, but is not the underlying cause IMO. Even if someone else is treating him badly lately, unless something's hurting him somehow, if you've got a good relationship, he should still be behaving the same way for you & as he's not & you've told he's never been good on the ground, sounds more likely this girl was just a 'final straw'. I agree with others, that it sounds like, to be safe & effective, you NEED a trainer, or at least good, experienced horseperson to help you. 

I think you(& your grandparents) need to really consider how seriously dangerous horses can be. Whether you're scared of him or not, whether 'aggressive' or not, that he's been allowed to have 'bad manners' for years with you & that it has now escalated due to bad treatment, that he's learned/learning he can actually fight about it & win. IMO things now need to change drastically, to ensure your safety - & ultimately his safety, because what will happen to him if you get hurt or worse, or his behaviour continues to escalate??


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

If the horse is striking at you you NEED to use the whip.

Confused, what would be "wrong" testosterone if he's not gelded?

I'm glad you figured out and took care of the issue with the girl. I would be very angry too. However, I agree with loosie.

Doesn't change the fact that the horse has issues on the ground and is now doing things that are flat out dangerous. Doesn't sound like you correct him when he does either.

Also doesn't change the fact that you are 13 and not experienced (forgive, me I know several very good horse people your age but it doesn't change the fact that you still have a lot to learn and can't have the experience that time gives you).

I would never let a 13 year old near a stallion (most), dangerous horse (ever), dangerous stallion (no way...at all... you wouldn't be allowed to pet him let alone attempt to work him).

Don't expect the problems to suddenly disappear now that that girl is gone. He is still a dangerous horse and is still putting you in danger.

It doesn't sound like you're handling it right... (if you were the initial small issues like fidgety on the crossties won't happen but not quite where I was going)

What do you do when you are lunging him and he strikes out at you?

How long was the girl riding him? None of those issues seem relevant to that though. There are plenty of horses ridden/worked in less than optimal ways that don't try to hurt people..


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Thoroughbredlover33 said:


> Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I was going to have tests run on him in May anyways, since that's the next time the vet will be able to come to the stables. I really want them done sooner, but it would cost $500 to call them out right now. I'd already talked to the vet about having the other testicle removed, but she said since it's so far inside of him, it could be very dangerous to try and remove it. It would be very difficult to get a trainer, seeing as there aren't many in my area and my grandma is too crotchety to spend the money to fix this problem. I'm not afraid of him, I'm afraid for him, because I know that if he keeps this up, he's going to seriously hurt himself or someone else. I've also discussed not boarding him in a stall, but in the pasture because of how high strung he is. I'm definitely going to try to get my grandparents to spend the money on a trainer and to get the vet out here as soon as possible. I also have the chiropractor coming to visit in a few weeks, which I already had planned before he started acting like this.


Hi TB33, my father has a lovely rig (colt with undescended testicles) who recently got to the age where he would normally have been gelded. He was 3 and starting to rock the boat when there were mares on heat. Because cryptorchid operations are expensive and risky in horses (any equine intra-abdominal surgery is - they're not like dogs or cattle in that regard), he has been given a testosterone antagonist implant a couple of months back and is starting to settle. The implants will have to be repeated at (I think it is) yearly intervals during his lifetime, but it's a low-risk, low-cost way of dealing with a rig.

I'm with Loosie on immediately thinking pain or illness are a factor here too. I knew someone whose horse acted up because the wooden tree in the saddle broke unnoticed by anyone but the horse! The saddle was driving him mad and it took the owners a while to figure it out. You have a bit of detective work ahead of you, I think!


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

I think the problem is he is a crypt. That combined with your age is very dangerous. I rode a lot of crazy horses when I was 13. At that age I was backing 2 yr olds and riding them. Now that I am much older, I look back and think I am lucky to be here, and I would never let my 13 yr old do that! 

I certainly wouldn't let a 13 yr old hand a crypt or a stallion! 

My neighbor is in the same situation. They bought a "gelding" for their 13 yr old daughter, and it turned out he was a crypt. They didn't want to spend the money to geld him, even though I offered to trailer him for free to the clinic (as I was afraid he would hurt the girl otherwise). He is kept isolated on the property only for when he escapes by jumping the fence. He runs to my house and tries to break my fencing down to get to my mares. :shock: 

The girl is now terrified of him and doesn't ride anymore. She can't get him past my horses to ride and she lives on a dead end street. They even starved the horse for a while, and were underfeeding it. Probably to try and make the horse more "manageable". 

The horse also jumped out one day and jumped into my neighbor's yard and attacked her geldings. My neighbor said her geldings beat him up really badly. 

It is a terrible situation and the horse is suffering because of it. They are feeding him better (as I called animal control), but he is kept isolated, is not groomed, or handled in any way. He is kept in a tiny dirt lot and never let out. 

For your safety, I would stop riding this horse. Get a job this summer and save up the money for the operation. It is not worth getting hurt. If you break your back, you will never walk again. I would not worry about the horse's age. He needs that operation. He needs that operation before you get hurt and have to give up riding. 

I don't think your grandparents will want you to ride if you break a bone or have a bad accident.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

4horses, you made me angry & sad telling your negligent neighbour's story! They are not just being unfair to the horse, but are putting the neighbourhood at risk too. IMO people like that should be 'gelded' too! It's one thing to make a mistake, overhorse yourself when you're not experienced, but to be cruel & negligent to an animal & dangerous to neighbours, through putting your head in the sand, is not forgivable IMO.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

I am just so funny & clever I blow myself away sometimes...


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

loosie said:


> 4horses, you made me angry & sad telling your negligent neighbour's story! They are not just being unfair to the horse, but are putting the neighbourhood at risk too. IMO people like that should be 'gelded' too!


Ah but loosie, this will only have maximum benefits for the gene pool if it's done *before* any reproduction! :twisted:

There is this saying that we should never ascribe to malice what can be satisfactorily explained by ignorance. Education, education, education... people have to have licenses to drive a car, but not to ride a horse, or use their gonads...


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

loosie said:


> I am just so funny & clever I blow myself away sometimes...


Well, you're going to have to *imagine* this one because I can't be bothered going on Photoshop, but my reply to your clever "crypt-orchid" would consist of an image of an oil rig, a subtraction sign, and an oil bottle. But of course yours is the more technically correct pun! :wink:


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## Thoroughbredlover33 (Mar 19, 2014)

This horse is in fact mine. I take him on trails almost every day once the weather gets nice. I can't do that right now because the trails are very rough and hilly, and the ground is muddy and slippery right now. I'm going to have his mouth checked, even though I ride with a bitless bridle. I have already had his saddle fitted and checked, and everything was okay. The vet said he isn't it any pain, he was just extremely irritated and worked up because another girl was riding him late at night without my permission and using poorly fitted tack, a harsh bit, and spurs.


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## Ninamebo (May 25, 2013)

Random tidbit: just because you use a bit less bridle doesn't necessarily mean it isn't causing him pain when you ride. If the horses teeth need to be floated, the pressure from some bit less designs can cause pain on the gums from the outside.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

A gelding wouldn't get that irritated and worked up because one girl was riding him in a way he didn't like every now and then. This horse is taking his issues out on you, which is also telling me he does not respect your leadership. If it was genuinely 100% because this girl was riding him and nothing more you would have little hints here and there (why is he hard to bridle today? why is he overreacting to my leg?) not a horse that's blatantly threatening to stop you into the ground.

Like I said, I am very glad you figured out _that_ issue, but _please _don't think the problems you are having will suddenly be solved!

It doesn't change the fact you are 13 years old handling a dangerous stallion. It doesn't change the fact that the horse doesn't respect you and you can't even get him to stand still on the cross ties. It doesn't change the fact that in all of this the horse IS a stallion and is now threatening/trying to hurt you, big time. I think you need a reality check on this... again, glad you found ONE issue, it will help, but stop thinking everything is fine and dandy now. Fix the issues, rule out pain, my guess is you will still have a very big issue on your hands, and really think you need to look at the bigger picture here. Not trying to be mean, but please listen to me, and the other posters, we do have more experience than you and several of us have experience with very similar situations, this is dangerous and we do want the best for both you and the horse and NO ONE wants to see you hurt!! So please think on the bigger issues here..

Also, I asked before- what do you do when he, say, strikes out at you on the lunge (fyi not typical behavior for a 16 year old gelding, even in a pain situation)? I am curious what your response is when he does something blatantly disrespectful dangerous and threatening. Remember, we are all trying to help.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

The fact that you aren't afraid of him...you should be! Trust me, I did plenty of things I shouldn't of at your age, half my parents didn't know of, but they would NEVER of let me NEAR a horse like this, let alone working with him. I am a little more sane now (I'm 24, so don't think you can't relate to me at all, I'm still young and DO get where you're coming from) and realize how absurd some things are, we just want you to live to be the good horseman you can be and to be able to use all the knowledge this horse has given you in the future. So please think on the bigger issues here.. You ARE dealing with a dangerous stallion. What are you going to do about it?


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## Thoroughbredlover33 (Mar 19, 2014)

Sorry. Had a little miscommunication. He will tie, but not to a wall. He does cross tie. I'm not on here looking for advice on how to fix this, I was just looking to find a possible cause. I'm still completely blown away that this stallion I've had since I was 8 did such a quick turn around like this. When he does strike out, I took my riding instructor's advice and gave him a good hard smack on the butt with the whip, using the solid part. I lunged him very briefly today, and he was a complete gentleman, but that doesn't mean I don't expect him to be done with his behavior. I'm still looking into getting some major help to ensure that this won't happen again.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Good. I am glad you got after him. It does sound like you are on the right track thanks for clarifying. I was getting the impression from your other posts that you felt everything was fine now that you got rid of the sneaky rider.

Make sure you stay on top of EVERYTHING including the things he already gets away with. Getting help is an excellent idea.

I think it's just a culmination of several things that made him suddenly change. As long as you can rule out pain you need to look back to your handling/his behavior, and don't forget he is a stallion.

Good luck! I would love an update!


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## Thoroughbredlover33 (Mar 19, 2014)

The past couple of days he has been fine. I had the dentist and ferrier check him out. He is in perfect shape. After I found out he is not in any pain, my instructor told me to get on him and see how he acts. He was great. He didn't test me once, and seemed quite happy and concentrated while I was riding him. I lunged him afterwards every time and he was just a bit lazy. It took me a few minutes to get him to trot, but that's the only issue I had. today while I was at the stables, I just decided to go about things like I normally would. I lunged before I rode. No issues. I got on and he was great. He seems fine now, but I'm certainly going to keep on him and be more strict with his behavior. I'm definitely not going to be riding him tackless for a month or so. I used to do it a few times each week before this, but I'm going to make sure he won't act out like that again before I think about getting on with only a neckrope. I'm going to lunge every day for a few minutes before I ride so he will be okay with lunging all the time. I don't really know why he has decided to be good now, but I'm not going to question it. I'm going to look out for any signs of aggression in the future and fix them the moment it happens


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Well did you have a vet/chiro? (Sorry if you already said) the dentist and farrier are two, and probably the least relevant of the professionals to tell you that.

I am glad he's not in pain, just checking the above.

It should not take "a few minutes" to get him to trot.. a few steps if he's being lazy, but if it's taking any longer he is flat out disobedient and you aren't following through with what you ask. If you ask him to trot and he ignores you flick the whip at his bum.. if he continues flick his bum. If you aren't afraid to you the whip when you need to you won't need to 

Is it possible there was a mare in heat around? I know you said the one mare there was older (which doesn't mean she won't have heat cycles) but could there be another mare you weren't aware of, even if she's not on the property?

Any other changes?

I would still suggest a trainer.

It does sound like you have the right mindset now, though I do think you may be in over your head, even if he's being "good" for the time being.

I definitely want to applaud you for what you've done and plan to do, and you've been very mature and positive through this thread, even with a lot of criticism. I know it can be hard, even when well meant, but you seem to take the advice well and listen, which is appreciated and will only help you . You have the right mindset. Kudos!

I am just trying to cover all the bases, but am VERY glad he's been such a good boy lately!


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I have found that younger kids are better at giving a horse a "what for" when he needs it than young teens. I'm wondering if he's picking up on your hormones. Mine did along with a change of behaviour but for one day only. Perhaps you're more forgiving of his small transgressions and one day they are suddenly large ones. Glad to hear to are getting more assertive. My cript got away with nothing and I was consistent and in time we developed a great relationship because we both knew our boundaries. And yes, I accepted his too.


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## Thoroughbredlover33 (Mar 19, 2014)

I did have the vet and chiropractor. There are no mares on the property other than the older one, who does still go into heat, which is unfortunate. As for the lunging laziness, I tapped him quite a few times. He didn't care. I eventually had to give him quite a good smack, but that didn't even work. A few seconds later, I went to do it again and right before I hit him, he picked up a trot. He's a stubborn one. I did the same today, and he was a bit energetic, so no whip was even needed. I got on afterwards, warmed him up really well, and went over a small jumping course. I wasn't going to push it with him after the way he's been acting, so I only jumped up to 3 feet. I'm still not sure what all that was about, but a friend of my riding instructor is coming tomorrow to help.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Maybe the mare was in heat during this time??

It sounds like he got the point with the smack lunging, be consistent and don't be afraid to smack him sooner if he's ignoring you! 

"Only" 3 ft lol. I'm glad he's so much better and you ruled out (hopefully) anything physical!


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## mobilenaturaltrainer (Nov 28, 2013)

The first thing I suggest is call a vet and ask his/her advice. Your horse is very dangerous [more so than I think you realize] at this point DO NOT try working on the solution yourself! Please contact a professional who can identify the cause of the problem. Because whatever the problem, a good understanding of equine behavior and learning theory, together with a correct analysis of the problem, will give you great flexibility in the solution you choose. The solutions must be:

> safe to implement for you and your horse
> In no way contrary to the welfare of your horse
> effective and efficient

The present methods you using are none of the above mentioned most importantly they are NOT appropriate for you and your horse. Your method does not fit in with the normal Behavior Modification methods in use today. If you continue without question YOU WILL GET HURT - SOONER THAN LATER!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

^Not sure what you are talking about.

Obviously you have not read the thread, but that last sentence doesn't even make sense to me. OP wasn't even really using any methods?


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## CandyCanes (Jul 1, 2013)

mobilenaturaltrainer said:


> The first thing I suggest is call a vet and ask his/her advice. Your horse is very dangerous [more so than I think you realize] at this point DO NOT try working on the solution yourself! Please contact a professional who can identify the cause of the problem. Because whatever the problem, a good understanding of equine behavior and learning theory, together with a correct analysis of the problem, will give you great flexibility in the solution you choose. The solutions must be:
> 
> > safe to implement for you and your horse
> > In no way contrary to the welfare of your horse
> ...


Did you even read the thread?


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## Thoroughbredlover33 (Mar 19, 2014)

Wow. I'm sop happy you guys have been so helpful! The trainer can't figure out what his issue is, but yesterday he observed as I brushed, tacked up and rode and said my handling and riding is fine, and he seems quite content now. I'm so happy it's done!


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## rydernation (Mar 12, 2014)

He sounds dangerous...IMHO.
Definitely a vet and perhaps a trainer. And then assess if he's really a horse you must have.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Did the trainer watch you lunge him? Maybe from a distance so the trainer isn't "helping"? Lunging is where the issue comes out so I wouldn't call it good until that is solved.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

Did the trainer lunge him? He might have been having a great day and having someone new on the end of the line might have made a change. I agree with Yogiwick I would not consider the issue solved. Than again I would never consider the issue gone but simply in remission at different times.


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## Thoroughbredlover33 (Mar 19, 2014)

Yes, the trainer sat in the lounge and watched me lunge.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I think your horse was figuring "if I hold out long enough she'll quit with the tapping", only you surprised him and gave him a harder one. He had no intentions of getting another when he stepped up into the trot. You made his feet move which established your authority. You're on the right track. What I was glad to read was that you didn't have to offer another one, that you stopped when you got the response you wanted. Right on.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I suppose you could say that you won't know you've sorted him until it happens again - but that's a rather negative way of thinking and not good to be always anticipating a repeat of the bad attitude thing - yes be on your guard (we should always have our mind on what we're doing) but do it without being tense about it.
I expect my horses to behave - and somehow they seem to know that and respond well to it.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

jaydee said:


> I suppose you could say that you won't know you've sorted him until it happens again - but that's a rather negative way of thinking and not good to be always anticipating a repeat of the bad attitude thing - yes be on your guard (we should always have our mind on what we're doing) but do it without being tense about it.
> I expect my horses to behave - and somehow they seem to know that and respond well to it.


^^This

I was about to say.. be on your guard. I am glad he was good. Was. For a short period of time. This is NO way guarantees "will be".

Please be careful, be on top of any misbehavior, yet as jaydee said, try not to expect/anticipate it.

Try to think "you will behave, I am aware you may not want to but this time you WILL" and expect him to behave, and watch closely he does. Reward him when he's good, jump on any dangerous behavior, or even threats of dangerous behavior. Just think "you will be good today"


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## Thoroughbredlover33 (Mar 19, 2014)

I've been keeping that mindset lately, and so far he's been back to normal. I still have no clue why he did it, but I'm going to be consistent with lunging every single day for short amounts of time and I'm thinking I'm going to keep him away from the young kids at the barn for a little while until I'm sure he will be a good boy around them. They used to play with him and braid his mane and tail, which he was fine with, but with the way he acted, the last thing I need is for him to go after a little kid. I don't think he's going to do it again, but it's better to be on my toes and keep in mind that it could happen again.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I will say there is a HUGE difference between a horse enjoying attention and a horse being tolerant of attention. You need to be very careful if the horse is being tolerant that it doesn't suddenly snap.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Get him tested to see if he is now producing more testosterone, which I would imagine is the problem.

Things change through the years, and he may now be more a stud than dud.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Y'know, I'm sure I did say much earlier on this thread that you can get simple testosterone antagonist implants that have a similar effect on rigs/cryptorchids as a castration operation on a normally "hung" colt / stallion. On a weekend visit to my parents I checked out my father's rig who had this implant three months back, and he's much calmed down, and much less "coltish" now.


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## Thoroughbredlover33 (Mar 19, 2014)

Well, it's been a while since I've checked this thread, and ever since, he's been fantastic.


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## Bondre (Jun 14, 2013)

OP, glad to hear that you have successfully worked through your horse's 'blip' and he's back to his normal self.

Loosie, I loved your photo of the orchid in the crypt! Seriously, does anyone have any idea of the etymology of 'cryptorchid'? It is one WEIRD word. Doesn't sound like horse vocabulary in the least. I suppose that 'crypto' refers to something hidden - as in the lost testicle! - but the rest of the word seems pretty meanless.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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