# Why do western saddles hurt?



## waresbear

I have no idea, bruises on your butt even! Most western saddles I ride in are pretty comfy, sorry no help here.


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## DraftyAiresMum

waresbear said:


> I have no idea, bruises on your butt even! Most western saddles I ride in are pretty comfy, sorry no help here.


I wouldn't have believed there were bruises, except when I worked at the Girl Scout horse camp a few years ago, I rode every day. By the end of the first week, I couldn't figure out why it hurt to just sit, even when I wasn't in the saddle. Checked in the mirror and sure enough, there were literally quarter-sized bruises right where my seat bones would hit when I was in the saddle. And every horse at the camp had its own saddle, so it had to have been more than one saddle doing it to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## franknbeans

Me either-only sores I ever get is from wearing the wrong boots and jean seam rubbing on my inner knees. And that is rarely. 

Maybe you have a bony butt-mine surely is not. ;-)


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## farmpony84

Bruises on your butt means you need to eat more....


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## DraftyAiresMum

Trust me, I have plenty of padding. Lol. My ex-husband used to tease me that Trace Atkins' song, "Honky-Tonk Badonk-a-donk," was my theme song.

This is the only pic I have of me in a western saddle. Like I said, the saddle was too small.








_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DraftyAiresMum

farmpony84 said:


> Bruises on your butt means you need to eat more....


No! No eating more!! Lol. I need to stop eating, is what I need to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag

Have you tried a saddle with a 5" cantle? Unlike the low cantle the high one correctly aligns the pelvis which makes for more rider comfort. Circle Y's High Horse line puts out such a saddle. Not light weight tho.The position you are in put you in the chair seat.Slide your hips forward about 2" and bring your heels back until they are under your hips.That saddle may not be too small, it seems it's because you are sitting too far back. Someone should be able to hold up a straight stick and it will be in line with your shoulder, hip and heel.


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## waresbear

Maybe because you are riding in saddles that are too small for you?


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## DraftyAiresMum

Saddlebag said:


> Have you tried a saddle with a 5" cantle? Unlike the low cantle the high one correctly aligns the pelvis which makes for more rider comfort. Circle Y's High Horse line puts out such a saddle. Not light weight tho.


A high cantle like on a wade? I haven't, that I can recall.

This is the saddle I'm hopefully going to buy. While it wasn't as comfortable as my Aussie, it wasn't exactly uncomfortable, either (I sat on it on the rack).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Copperhead

It could be that the saddle seat simply never fit you. I had this happen to me with a black saddle over the summer. I would get bruises on my butt and my butt would swell up in the bruised places like welts. It hurt so bad. I sold it to a woman who felt the saddle was very comfortable and bought a 50lb roping saddle. The other saddle was a black trail\pleasure saddle. I had to have been the seat fit.

It could be the way you sit or the way the saddle makes makes you sit as well as the seat make.

Another thing comes to mind is perhaps you weren't using a properly sized saddle for your butt. Too small of a seat or two large of a seat can cause pressure points on your butt because your butt isn't where it needs to be for a proper fit
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DraftyAiresMum

waresbear said:


> Maybe because you are riding in saddles that are too small for you?


That saddle in the pic was a 15". My best friend's Circle Y was a 16". The ones at the horse camp were anywhere from 15-17". I know now that I need a 16.5-17" for it to fit right, but a 16" isn't too cramped. That old roping saddle of my BO's was at least a 18", maybe even a 19", because it was HUGE. I was swimming in it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DraftyAiresMum

Copperhead said:


> It could be that the saddle seat simply never fit you. I had this happen to me with a black saddle over the summer. I would get bruises on my butt and my butt would swell up in the bruised places like welts. It hurt so bad. I sold it to a woman who felt the saddle was very comfortable and bought a 50lb roping saddle. The other saddle was a black trail\pleasure saddle. I had to have been the seat fit.
> 
> It could be the way you sit or the way the saddle makes makes you sit as well as the seat make.
> 
> Another thing comes to mind is perhaps you weren't using a properly sized saddle for your butt. Too small of a seat or two large of a seat can cause pressure points on your butt because your butt isn't where it needs to be for a proper fit
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What you described is EXACTLY what happened to me!

The saddle I'm hopefully buying and sat in today is a 17". It actually felt like it fit me better than any western saddle I've sat in. I can't wait to get it on Aires to see if it fits him and try riding in it. It's a 17" Circle Y cutting saddle. 

Thinking about it, the saddle we used for Paleface, our lead horse for trails at the horse camp and the horse I usually ended up riding, was a 17" roping saddle (can't remember the maker) and it wasn't uncomfortable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_

This is the saddle I'm hopefully buying:


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## waresbear

Like Copperhead said, too big would hurt as well, too small is bruising your butt, so you need something that fits correctly. Or maybe one of those sheepskin saddle covers? Sorry never used one but they sure look comfy. I would go to a saddle shop and sit on all their saddles and see which one they say fits you, sometimes we can't judge ourselves.


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## franknbeans

I really hope that saddle works-it is nice looking for sure. Just hope it is comfy for you and Aires.

Only pain issue I have with western saddles is that now that I am used to riding in a saddle with a "narrow twist" it feels like someone is prying my hips apart when I ride on a normal tree.


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## EquineBovine

I always impale myself on the horn! But I lurve western saddle, so comfy BUT Aussie saddles are the bomb! 
I think you must have a boney bum hehe P


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## GotaDunQH

DraftyAiresMum said:


> What you described is EXACTLY what happened to me!
> 
> The saddle I'm hopefully buying and sat in today is a 17". It actually felt like it fit me better than any western saddle I've sat in. I can't wait to get it on Aires to see if it fits him and try riding in it. It's a 17" Circle Y cutting saddle.
> 
> Thinking about it, the saddle we used for Paleface, our lead horse for trails at the horse camp and the horse I usually ended up riding, was a 17" roping saddle (can't remember the maker) and it wasn't uncomfortable.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> This is the saddle I'm hopefully buying:


While I'm not a Circly Y fan at all...that is a decent looking saddle. The seat is flatter which will help you sit where you should be sitting.


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## DraftyAiresMum

GotaDunQH said:


> While I'm not a Circly Y fan at all...that is a decent looking saddle. The seat is flatter which will help you sit where you should be sitting.


I'm gonna try it on the monster today. Really hoping it fits!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Delfina

I have the same problem and I've never ridden in one that was "too small", I'd have to go squash into a toddler saddle to do that. 

I want to get one of those cushy sheepskin seat savers and see if that helps. Or I could just stick with English saddles, those are comfy.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

I hated Western saddles for the LONGEST time! I had all the discomfort you're talking about and I always felt like I was straddling the dining room table. I finally got to borrow a lovely Dale Chavez show saddle and try it out. OH YEAH!!!!!! The seat finally fit just right and it had a narrow twist which relieved the pain in my hips. Now I don't want to ride in anything else. If this one doesn't fit your horse or isn't comfortable once you're on, try looking for a good, used Dale Chavez.


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## smrobs

I rode in saddles for so many years that didn't fit me that I just kind of figured that pain was a part of riding. After I outgrew my kid saddle when I was 10 or 11 (yes, I was a small child), I moved up to one of my Dad's old roping saddles. 16" seat, wide twist, flat seated torture devices is what they were LOL.









I often wonder if that isn't the source of my habit of riding with my weight on my feet. Whenever I would try to ride properly in those old saddles, they would absolutely kill my hips. Even my own roping saddle that I bought about 10 years ago hurts me...and it's got some really thick seat padding. Now, when I got my Association saddle, the difference is like night and day. Where before, all my weight would be directly on the points of my seat bones (which _did_ cause sore and bruised spots), now, the pressure is more spread out to everything around the seat bones as well. It's like a glove down there. The only time I end up with a sore butt now is if I go for months without riding and then spend all day in the saddle. But, I think that's a combination of a hard seat saddle and a bony butt :wink:.

Point is, whether the seat fits you or not plays a big part in how comfortable it is.


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## Dustbunny

Three cheers for the narrow twist! For me it makes all the difference in how I sit and comfort level.
That is a nice looking saddle you posted. Let us know how it fits your horse.


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## DraftyAiresMum

Dustbunny said:


> Three cheers for the narrow twist! For me it makes all the difference in how I sit and comfort level.
> That is a nice looking saddle you posted. Let us know how it fits your horse.


I'll probably put up a thread with pics to see how everyone thinks it fits. I'm pretty good at saddle fit (had eight saddles on my old gelding in a 6 month span lol), but I'd like an outside opinion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DraftyAiresMum

The saddle is in my possession and I have until Friday to make my decision! Can't wait to go out to the barn after work and try it on the beastly! Hopefully my BO has a pad I can borrow and I can try riding in it, too...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DraftyAiresMum

I think I'm gonna cry. Tried the saddle on Aires today. He has grown a RIDICULOUS amount. The tree was so incredibly narrow on him that he actually grabbed the sleeve of my hoodie in his teeth when I stuck my hand under the bars in the front to see if there was any space. He has NEVER bitten me like that since that last time before he was gelded and he got my fist to his jaw. He got a hard slap on the face when he bit me, but I don't really blame him. Poor guy. I would have been ****y too if I'd had something that narrow pinching my shoulders.

My BO's husband has a really nice custom saddle that he's going to let us try next time we're out there. It's a 17" and I think he said it was FQHB (he's from Italy and has only been in the States for a few years, so his accent is a little difficult to understand sometimes). Hopefully that'll fit. I need to measure the gullet on the Circle Y so I know how wide it is so I can look for something wider. I think I'm also going to make a withers tracing to take with me when I go saddle hunting.


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## franknbeans

^^ :-(


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## smrobs

Yikes. The good news is, FQHB seem to be a bit easier to find.

They seem that way to me anyway.


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## DraftyAiresMum

I'm not sure that the Circle Y wasn't actually FQHB. The gentleman who helped me on Wednesday said he thought it looked like what is considered semi-QH bars, but when I picked it up yesterday, the assistant manager who helped me said it was FQHB. She was considering buying it for herself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ponypile

I have a similar problem with western saddles being uncomfortable. For me, it feels like my seat bones are teetering on the edges of a block of wood. My seat bones REALLY hurt after riding in a western saddle, and I've ridden in probably around 10 different ones. Honestly I think it might have to do with the shape of the tree. None of my friends have this problem, but I have very wide hips, and was wondering if my seat bones were just wider set than the average person? It's the only thing I can come up with. I never get that feeling in english saddles, and the only western saddle I've never experienced this in was one that was much too small for me (I think it was a 14 inch, and I was over flowing out with back ).


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## existentialpony

Take a measuring tape to the gullet! A FQHB from one manufacturer/time period might be different from another...


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## DraftyAiresMum

existentialpony said:


> Take a measuring tape to the gullet! A FQHB from one manufacturer/time period might be different from another...


I'm going to in the morning. It's in the trunk of my Thunderbird and I'm too tired/lazy to go do it right now. Lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sillyhorses

Welllll... my first thought was "They hurt because you have not gone out shopping at a saddle shop with every brand under the sun and not stopped until you sat in the right one!"

I'm in your boat, too. I don't ride western myself (unless someone threatens teeth pulling )... and, as such, have never had a need to go saddle shopping for one. I suspect my bruised seat bones from every Western saddle I've sat in is because they weren't bought to fit _my_ body!


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## Puddintat

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Trust me, I have plenty of padding. Lol. My ex-husband used to tease me that Trace Atkins' song, "Honky-Tonk Badonk-a-donk," was my theme song.
> 
> This is the only pic I have of me in a western saddle. Like I said, the saddle was too small.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



OMG....that baby has some crazy hair going on up front!! lol :lol:


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## DraftyAiresMum

sillyhorses, I'm sure that if I went and tried out every brand, I'd fall in love with the absolute most expensive one there. Lol
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## DraftyAiresMum

Puddintat said:


> OMG....that baby has some crazy hair going on up front!! lol :lol:


He was shaking his head when my friend snapped the pic. Lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## its lbs not miles

Western style seats of the correct size for the rider are among the most comfortable (otherwise we could never have spent so much time in the saddle working cattle). To small and they're a pain. When they're larger than needed it hasn't bothered me, but after 3+ hours in one that's too small you're lucky if you only have one area that hurts. If you do a lot of riding you'll want a large enough and a relative flat seat so you can adjust your postion to what's most comfortable. If you're ride is long enough you'll likely find that you'll change your position in the saddle at times. That's one of the reason a smaller seat creates aches and pains. You can't adjust your position for your comfort.
The real problem with Western style saddles is they have a horn (something not needed unless you're roping) and they weigh a ton (something the horse really doesn't need), but if well fitted they displace weight pretty well.
With the exception of the child saddle my granddaughters use (with no horn) I haven't owned a western style saddle in almost 20 years.
If a full quater horse bar fits your horse you're lucky. Be glad you don't have one that's to big for that and to small for a draft saddle. It's tough to even find someone who will custom make a saddle for a horse that one of the standard sized trees won't fit. Thank goodness for Universal Pattern and Troopers.


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## sillyhorses

DraftyAiresMum said:


> sillyhorses, I'm sure that if I went and tried out every brand, I'd fall in love with the absolute most expensive one there. Lol
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


lol - me too!


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## smrobs

its lbs not miles said:


> If you do a lot of riding you'll want a large enough and a relative flat seat so you can adjust your postion to what's most comfortable.


Well, this depends on your preference and your body. The reason that Roper trees are so uncomfortable for me is the flat seat. If you look at almost every ranch saddle made, they have a relatively narrow twist unless you request it wider, and they have a deep seat pocket that sort of cups your seat with the part of the seat closest to the pommel being built up a bit (how much it's built up also is a personal preference).

Like this. Looks like it should be really comfortable, right?








Nope. 3 hours and I am aching everywhere from my stomach down.

However, I can ride in this for 10+ hours and get off feeling just as refreshed as I felt when I got on that morning. This is an old picture, but it really shows the seat pocket better than any of my newer pictures.


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## stevenson

get your feet / legs under you more. try riding with the stirrup a little longer.
you could be sitting to far back on the saddle. the saddle /seat could be to narrow. I have a roping saddle I like and an A fork saddle .


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## foxhuntcowboy

Western saddles are comfortable, if you are used to English then I can see why you think that.


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## tinyliny

what kind of saddle is this?


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## smrobs

It's a custom Modified Association saddle.


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## trailhorserider

I'm with Smrobs. What I ride is slightly different, but since I've discovered ranch saddles I've been a happy girl! The high cantle and seat pocket really gives you a comfy place to sit and spreads your weight "all over down there," not just on your seat bones. I can ride for 5 hours in these. It's the shape of the seat that makes them comfortable. Notice they have no padding.

I don't know if "Iridehorses" still has his saddle up for sale, but it is a 17" seat ranch saddle and it is SO well made. Much better than any of mine. It was in the tack for sale section of this forum. Unfortunately it was also out of budget at $1100. But man, that's a nice 17" saddle. Of course horse fit is that other variable in the equation. :?

But anyhow, since I've gone to hard seat, A-fork, high cantle, ranch type saddles I just can't hardly ride in a regular western saddle anymore. They all seem to force me into a position I don't want to be in. These saddles let you find your own body position. 

Saddles should be comfortable. Not all western saddles are painful, honest! Some are downright awesome. 

Aires, I'm so sorry to hear that saddle was a no-go for your boy. Ugh! I know the feeling! I must have gone through 10 saddles for my Mustang. :-(


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## SorrelHorse

I have never had this problem...My barrel saddle is the most comfortable thing I've ever ridden in.


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## GotaDunQH

DraftyAiresMum said:


> I'm not sure that the Circle Y wasn't actually FQHB. The gentleman who helped me on Wednesday said he thought it looked like what is considered semi-QH bars, but when I picked it up yesterday, the assistant manager who helped me said it was FQHB. She was considering buying it for herself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



This is the problem I've found with Circle Y's....especially older ones; the majority of them are SQH bars.


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## franknbeans

^^ That was my experience with them too. Perhaps that is why there are SO many of them for sale on eBay?

Sorry Aires-you WILL find a saddle.


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## tailskidwest

Go try a Fallis, Bennett, or Hereford "Balanced Ride" saddle. Most all pain from the waist down is caused by the way the stirrups hang on western saddles. The ones I mentioned above all have "forward hung" stirrups, which take all the pressure off your knees and hips. They also have a different method of securing the cinch that gets the big wad of latigo out from under your leg. Do a search for Fallis and go to their website, they have a good diagram of the forward hung stirrup and cinch latigo layout. The whole setup keeps you in balanced in the saddle and is quite comfortable. My old Hereford will fit anything from a skinny 14 hand quarter horse to a 17 hand draft cross. I've ridden them 26 miles through the back country, stepped off hot, dirty and tired but not sore! My new Fallis is even better!


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## DraftyAiresMum

foxhuntcowboy said:


> Western saddles are comfortable, if you are used to English then I can see why you think that.


Until I got my Aussie saddle two years ago (when I got Aires), I had never ridden in anything but western saddles. I rode for five minutes once in a too-small ASSC Muster Master saddle that belonged to a friend, but that doesn't really count.

What sucks is being on such a tight budget.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag

Perhaps I should jump in again. A woman leg structure from the hips down is different from a man's. His legs come fairly straight down from hip to knee, whereas a womans angle inward toward the knee. A roping saddle is wider in the twist than a pleasure saddle. They were built for men for many years. A lot of women find a roper style saddle uncomfortable. A tree that works well for women is Ralide's Little Wonder tree which began it's days as a pony saddle. For those of you who don't know what the twist is, it is the narrowest part of the seat where the upper leg would rest. This might help in making a selection. Roping style saddles have rounded forks, trail saddles have sharper forks.


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## franknbeans

THere are actually an increasing number with narrow twist, and I have personally felt the difference when I bought a used Leddy (custom made in the 70's for a woman). I could not sit in it. I felt like I was on t=some stretching torture device.

However, it is very hard on a budget to find a narrow twist. They tend to be newer, at least from what I have found, and the really good makes (like Bob's), although Crates makes a really nice lady reiner-but even that used is about $8-900.


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## CowboyBob

What I have always told people about riding is. 

When you get done riding and your knees hart your stirrups are too short.
when you get done riding and your butt harts your stirrups are to long.
when you get done riding and they both hart your stirrups are just right :0 

Sorry I couldn't help it. Really I would know where to start other then to say the saddles you have ridden in do not fit you.


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## GotaDunQH

franknbeans said:


> THere are actually an increasing number with narrow twist, and I have personally felt the difference when I bought a used Leddy (custom made in the 70's for a woman). I could not sit in it. I felt like I was on t=some stretching torture device.
> 
> However, it is very hard on a budget to find a narrow twist. They tend to be newer, at least from what I have found, *and the really good makes (like Bob's),* although Crates makes a really nice lady reiner-but even that used is about $8-900.


LOVE Bob's saddles!


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## franknbeans

^^ Me too! Now that I have one (with a narrow twist) I will NEVER have anything else!


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## Casey02

You probably riding in "mens saddles?" maybe try looking for a womans. I ride western and not all western saddles are comfortable. Just have to find one you like. Im sure the same goes for english


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## Palomine

You are in a chair seat in this picture, which could account for this.

And could be you are not giving with horse's motion too, and tensing?


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## joseeandjade11

When i started riding, i would only ride in english saddles and i was comfortable, my coach made me switch to western riding and i could only find bad things to say, i hated it, the seat was so uncomfortable, i did not like the stirrups either, tacking up was awful and so on. I started to get used to a bighorn western saddle and it was ok but now i own a western rawhide saddle and wow it's so comfy! Not too long a go i sat on a different saddle that was too big for me and ouch it hurt like hell... Now im so used to ride in my western that when i sit in an english saddle my butt gets sore! So really, it's just a matter of finding the right saddle that is comfortable for you and your horse and you will get used to it eventually


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## DraftyAiresMum

Palomine, my "looseness" in the saddle is something everyone I've ridden with comments about. I just kind of instinctually move with the horse.

Joseeandjade, the irony is that I've only ever ridden western (until I got my Aussie saddle).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## joseeandjade11

Hehe i'm glad to hear you found a good saddle that works!!


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## jannette

DraftyAiresMum said:


> A high cantle like on a wade? I haven't, that I can recall.
> 
> This is the saddle I'm hopefully going to buy. While it wasn't as comfortable as my Aussie, it wasn't exactly uncomfortable, either (I sat on it on the rack).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
i have had issues with my butt bones (and i too have padding:wink and also my knees would hurt so bad when i got off i couldnt stand..last year i bought a custom made saddle from our local tack store. it has 5" cantle with a high back, almost like a ropping sadle. it also has the stirrups pre-turned...its like a dang recliner lol. i love love love it!!! it is not light however and just a touch big for me not sloppy but more room i think is better..it's roughed out not that that matters i dont think but maybe..


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## amberly

Every saddle I have tried had been pretty comfy to me. I have a super bony behind too. I have no idea - maybe you are just more sensitive?


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## Saddlebag

Bob, there's one more. When you get done riding and everything hurts, you need to relax.


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## DraftyAiresMum

Resurrecting this thread.

STILL haven't found a saddle I like or that is comfortable. I do have a saddle at the moment that I'm going to use, but it's not comfortable. It's a 16.5" Action Saddle Co pleasure/trail saddle. It's the only thing I have to use right now, though, since we figured out my Aussie is too wide for Aires.

Here's the crazy part. I sat in my Action Saddle Co saddle for two minutes on a saddle stand today and my butt is STILL sore. I even moved around on the seat and found the most "comfortable" position. 

I'm going to put my saddle up for sale on Craigslist. If it sells, great. If it doesn't, oh well. 

Any ideas of what, ultimately, I should be looking for when/if it does sell? Again, I'm still on a super tight budget.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## joseeandjade11

I now own a western Barefoot treeless saddle and it's the comfiest saddle my butt has ever sat in  They are, however, quite expensive...


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## tinyliny

You need to analyze he tp you are sitting when it is comfortable , are you only on you seatbones or partially on you pubic or tail bone? Try sitting on a rock hard chair and rolling your hips forward and back and feeling how your seatbones feel against the hard surface and what position is least painful.


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## jimmyp

DraftyAiresMum said:


> sillyhorses, I'm sure that if I went and tried out every brand, I'd fall in love with the absolute most expensive one there. Lol
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have found that this isn't necessarily a bad thing. I have found with saddles that you tend to get what you pay for. Now, that said, what works for me may not work for you, but good saddles cost. i went through a handful of sale barn saddles and cheaper off brand saddles before I finally broke down and dropped about $1300 on a good western/trail type saddle, there have been many weekends where I have spent 20+ hours in saddle at field trials in that western and have never had a sore "seat" Knees are a different story. 

I don't often ride western any more (i typically ride a trooper saddle), but when I am riding new, or young horses I can still count on my western to be comfy all day.

Jim


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## DraftyAiresMum

Jim, my problem is that I have a growing horse, a large derrière and a minuscule budget. I can't drop $1300 on a saddle that probably won't fit my horse in a year. When he stops growing, yes, I will invest in a quality saddle that fits us both and is comfortable. Until then, I have to rely on what I can find for not-too-much that will work for the time being.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cynical25

A well-made, properly fitting saddle doesn't hurt!

I can imagine too small or too large a seat, poorly positioned stirrup leathers, or sub-par materials may cause discomfort. As part of that "properly fitted" statement, I do prefer a saddle with a narrow twist, and I need to make sure stirrup leathers are long enough for my tall self to be in correct position. I sit on the saddle before even thinking about trying it on my horse, since it has to be a match for both of us.

But even my 19 year old Silver Royal equitation seat who's seat padding was long ago smooshed to nothingness is comfy enough for an all day trail ride. My new Continental Saddlery Reiner is like riding on a cloud; it's more comfortable than the couch in my living room!


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## NorthernMama

If the aussies work for you, then why not use an aussie? Maybe you aren't allowed to show in an aussie?


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## DraftyAiresMum

NorthernMama said:


> If the aussies work for you, then why not use an aussie? Maybe you aren't allowed to show in an aussie?


Since it's just a little barn show, my BO is perfectly fine with me riding in my Aussie. Which was the plan. Until we figured out that my Aussie is WAY too wide for Aires. The tree at the pommel is literally sitting on his withers, even without a rider on. :shock: Not sure how I missed it. Probably because I love the saddle so much that I blinded myself to the fit issues. Either way, I can't ride in my Aussie and I'm torn about selling it and I can't get a new one unless I sell the one I have.

After I originally posted this thread, I took a couple of lessons in a Circle A barrel saddle that I actually really liked. Problem is, it only comes in semi-QH bars (6.25" gullet) and we need FQHB (7" gullet). 

I did find a 16" reining saddle on Craigslist that looks amazingly comfortable, but it's out of my price range unless I sell my Aussie and my western...and even then it would be a little more than I can comfortably afford.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cynical25

I'd just keep saving until you can buy a GOOD, name brand one. There is no point in continuing to try to "find a good deal" on a lesser-quality saddle - it just isn't working for y'all!


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## DraftyAiresMum

But that leaves the problem of not having a saddle at all. I can ride bareback when we're just schlepping around the arena, but if I want to show (which I really do), I need some type of saddle. And I can't ride English (yet).

I'm not trying to be argumentative or play Devil's advocate. I'm genuinely frustrated by this. I would love to save up and order a custom Corriente, since I've heard so much good about them. But, the FQHB on my western saddle I have now just fit Aires with my 1/2" Diamond wool pad. If he grows any more (and he will), it won't fit. At this point, I more care about the saddle fitting him than me. It's just frustrating that I can't find anything that works for us both.

Sorry. This turned into a rant. I'm just generally frustrated with everything right now. Yesterday, I contemplated putting my horse up for sale and just running away. But I can't, and won't, do that. Just feeling a little overwhelmed and this whole saddle thing is just the icing on the cake.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NorthernMama

I would try out as many saddles as I could at the stores, from my friends, trainer, barn, wherever. Make note of those that work for you. Maybe someone will let you test fit on Aires. Then look for one of those secondhand.

No matter which way you turn this, with a growing horse, it's going to be an expense. Keep in mind the better quality you buy, the better the resale value. I know its tough when the money just isn't there though.


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## Cynical25

Is it the angle of the bars that's an issue, or the height of the gullet? A lot of FQHB pleasure & trail saddles I've seen have a super shallow gullet space, which causes the gullet/pommel to rest on the withers and owners to think it's too wide (but the bars themselves may actually fit.) For whatever reason, the gullet tends to be higher on some ranch & barrel saddles, so that might be a good option. 

Some saddle makers do carry an Extra Full QHB, which will give a wider angle to the bars. If he's really wide & stocky, you may need to look for that option. Those may have to come straight from the saddle maker, though, as few tack retailers carry special sizes. Continental Saddlery is one brand I know for sure carries an XFQHB, and the gullet/pommel has enough height to keep it from resting on the withers...


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## DraftyAiresMum

My Aussie saddle is the one that rests on his withers. It has a 6" gullet (most regular tree Aussies have a 5" gullet) and a fairly flat angle to the bars.

This is a pic of the front of my Aussie:

And closer up:


The FQHB (7" gullet) of my western saddle fits him perfectly right now with my 1/2" Diamond wool pad. The angle is correct and there is plenty of withers clearance. He moves much better in it than he does in the Aussie. It's just not comfortable for me.

The saddle that I'm looking at for when he's done growing is the Big Horn 1680/1683 (1680 is a 16" seat, 1683 is a 17.5" seat) if he needs the 8" draft gullet or the 1681, which is a 16" seat and a 7.5" haflinger gullet, if he ends up in between the 7" FQHB and 8" draft gullet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms

DraftyAiresMum said:


> ...I'm not trying to be argumentative or play Devil's advocate....But, the FQHB on my western saddle I have now just fit Aires with my 1/2" Diamond wool pad. If he grows any more (and he will), it won't fit...


Here are the standard trees made by Steele. They make for more than this, but these fit the large majority of horses somehow:

"*J* - Semi-Quarter Horse (Semi)/Arabian (Arab) - Steeper front and rear rafter angle and closer-spaced bars relative to Standard Quarter Horse fit when positioned at standard spread. In addition, sufficient bow (rocker) enables this fit to conform well to the short Arabian back having a narrow wither dropping off quickly to the shoulder.

*D *- Standard Quarter Horse (SQ) - Approximate 92º front rafter angle. Good front flare, bow and upturned tails to avoid bridging and bar edge pressure points.

*TF* - Full Quarter Spread (FQ) - Same bow (rocker) and wind (twist) as 'D' fit with an additional 1/2” front spread ('GW+1/2' or '+1/2') than standard.

*NE* - Straight-Back Quarter (SBQ) - Similar flare and rafter angle to the 'D' fit with much less bow. Developed for straighter backed, well collected horses. Also works well for mules that require a flatter front rafter than the 'SE'.

*SE* - Mule (Mule) - Reduced bow and steeper front rafter angle to conform to the distinctive mule back. Helps prevent the back of the saddle rocking up when cinched, which creates tremendous pressure under the stirrup leather when the rider's weight pushes it back down.

*HA* - Draft Horse (DH) - Approximate 105º front rafter angle. Flatter rear rafter also and less bow for broad, flat backs with little dip. 

*LT* - Gaited Horse (GT) - Steeper rear rafter angle, additional front flare and more bow relative to the 'D' fit.

*PW* - Walking Horse (WH) - Similar to LT with steeper front rafter angle.

*AW*- Full Wither (FW)/Arabian (Arab) - Flared out front and rear to allow for full or mutton wither with no pockets. The resulting bow enables this fit to conform well to the short Arabian back having wide withers rounding out into the shoulder. The AW has also been found to work for more dipped-back draft horses."

Steele Saddle Tree LLC - Fit To The Horse

Here are the saddle tree templates used by Horse Saddle Shop, superimposed:










Notice the angle of the bars themselves - the flatness - varies on average by 4 deg between semi-QH and full QH, and another 4 deg for 'very wide' - using averages from different makers. The variation in a FQHB is +/- 4 deg, depending on who makes it.

Of course, trees vary by more than that. Here is a picture of a D tree fiberglass form with a flatter SE:










With the flatter SE, the tree bridges on Mia enough for me to slide my fingers underneath it at the middle! The D has a bit too much "rock" but the SE has too little for her - and that is worse than too much.

However, there are only a handful of standard sizes to choose from. While your horse may get wider horizontally, do you think he is going to change shape to a flatter angle? If he just gets bigger horizontally but doesn't get flatter, then shouldn't that simply result in the saddle riding higher (more wither clearance)?










I don't know...I'm not being a Devil's advocate either because I've shipped fiberglass forms and trees and emailed an awful lot of pictures to people who know these things, and I still don't have a good feel for it!

Could you take some pictures of how the current saddles fit him? --- WOW! You posted the pictures before I finished typing! Have you always been clairvoyant?  Any pictures of your horse?


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## bsms

Have you tried one of these with your Aussie:










They will raise the front a lot. It might be a $37 temporary fix. I ride my Australian saddle with the no lift version all the time.


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## DraftyAiresMum

Here's the thing, bsms. I can find a FQHB saddle to fit him (for now). That's the easy part. I do, after all, live in the land of the QH. The part that's frustrating is finding a saddle that fits my fat *** and is COMFORTABLE, while still fitting the beast and that isn't going to make it so that I can't afford to eat for the next month. I've found several 17" saddles that look great and aren't too expensive...except they have semi-QH bars.

I haven't tried playing with the fit of my Aussie yet, simply because I didn't discover that the saddle was too wide until very recently. I have no idea of the manufacturer of my saddle. All I know is that it's a solid wood tree that seems oddly shaped, and the round "patch" on the front is where there was originally a horn and someone very skillfully cut it off and patched over it. 

I don't have any good recent pics of just him. I have a pic of my best friend riding him bareback and of him being lunged, but that's it. I'll try to get some tomorrow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## oh vair oh

Have you tried any Thinline products, either their pad or their seat cushion? I am going to try a pad out because I heard they were excellent shock absorbers, both for horse and rider. 

I finally saved up and got my first truly custom saddle though, after years and years of riding in too big hand-me-downs. I would get bruises where my hip bones sat, and my hip joints and knees would ache often. I wish I had gotten the custom YEARS sooner. So comfortable and it puts me in a good position, and FITS. No more bruises or pain. The only problem is now I can't ride in anything else again without being immediately sore xD

But for now, I would look into the Thinline and maybe it will help soften your ride and alleviate a little pain for the time being.


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## my2geldings

waresbear said:


> r maybe one of those sheepskin saddle covers? Sorry never used one but they sure look comfy.


Thats a genius idea. I have a similar issue where I have yet to find a comfortable western saddle. It might be because I've ridden english for so long and not used to western. I love that idea. Appreciate you posting that suggestion. Not something I would have thought for myself.


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## Captain Evil

The most miserably uncomfortable saddle I have ever sat in (other than pancake flat cheapo school saddles) was a Stubben Tristan...ouch! AND I made the mistake of telling my wonderful, but exacting, instructor that I found the saddle harsh and so disliked the sitting trot... have you ever ridden a sitting trot with collected, regular and extended for an hour straight? OUCH!! After that, I added a sheepskin pad, and it helped alot. I then got a sheepskin pad for my very comfortable western saddle, and it is awesome.


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## smrobs

Paige, you may end up being in the same boat as me if your monster grows any more. Like Aires, Rafe has the perfect angle that matches my FQHB saddle, but if he gets any bigger, it will be too narrow. Unfortunately, in mass produced saddles, getting a bigger gullet also generally means you get flatter bars (like the pic that BSMS posted of the drawn diagram)

Probably, if my guy gets any bigger, I'm going to have to end up going full custom, all the way down to the tree because nobody makes trees that have a 7.5-8" gullet and bars angled at FQHB :?.

As for fitting you, sorry I can't really be of more help. Only thing I can really suggest beyond OVO's mention of a saddle seat pad is looking for something with a narrow twist. Generally, those fit women better than most men's saddles. Unfortunately, adding that to your search criteria will also limit your search greatly.


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## smrobs

Sorry, double post.

BSMS, where you start running into trouble with a horse getting too wide for the gullet you have is that it gets to a point when the saddle is "perched" up on top of their back and you lose all semblance of stability. That's what was happening with mine and why I had to get a 1/2 inch pad instead of the smushed 1 inch I was using before. I started having trouble with my saddle sliding from side to side really bad.


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## DraftyAiresMum

Jenn, I think that's the problem with my Aussie. If you look at it, tree angle is VERY flat.

Ugh. Unfortunately I'm kind of stuck with the saddle I've got for now, unless I sell it and can find something for less than I sold it for.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms

An option for folks to consider - and it isn't entirely cheap but neither is it extremely expensive - is the Steele "Fit to Be Seen" program ( Steele Saddle Tree LLC - Fit To The Horse ). You pay some costs in shipping fiberglass forms (and sometimes trees), but you can see options made by Steele pretty easily. 

When I did it, Ed Steele recommended starting the their "D" tree - their standard QH bars. After seeing pictures like this:










he recommended trying one of their lesser used trees called an "LF". After seeing pictures, he recommended telling someone like Dakota to "_specify ‘LF with additional flare at front concho’ and I will modify it to create a better fit than standard_."

You can see why the extra flare would be needed in this picture:










Now, have I done that? No. I talked to a forum member about having a saddle built. After looking at more trees, we settled on a fairly narrow one because Mia is 15.2 or 15.3 and 900 lbs. The fit on the narrower tree looks like this:










It probably isn't quite as close as what Steele would have made with modifications, but it is a fairly standard semi-QH saddle which should still have a lot of contact and still have enough flare not to dig in.

Steele has a lot of trees besides their standard ones, so that is an option for someone who wants a good fit but can't afford to go totally custom. I'll add that the folks at Steele were very nice to do business with.


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## nikelodeon79

Have you tried a Big Horn synthetic? They can be found for cheap. What you may dislike about Westerns is the "stiffness" of a western saddle. There's a lot of saddle... but with a synthetic the fenders are flexible and there seems to be less stress on the butt. LOL.


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## DraftyAiresMum

nikelodeon79 said:


> Have you tried a Big Horn synthetic? They can be found for cheap. What you may dislike about Westerns is the "stiffness" of a western saddle. There's a lot of saddle... but with a synthetic the fenders are flexible and there seems to be less stress on the butt. LOL.


I've ridden in a synthetic once. Granted, it was an Abetta, but that one experience completely put me off synthetics. It was just as uncomfortable as a regular leather saddle, the fenders were awkward, and it put me in a horrible position.

I'm thinking I may just order a Tush Cush or somethîng similar. But then I run into the issue of it making the saddle seat smaller. My 16.5" saddle is barely big enough as it is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smrobs

There are some you can buy that only cover the bottom of the seat, where you're having your problems, and don't cover the cantle so they wouldn't make it any smaller.

One style of the Cashel Tush Cushion is like that


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## DraftyAiresMum

This is my western saddle:


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paintedpastures

Western saddles come in a variety of seat styles. The twist, how flat seat is,cantle size, Horn Height etc all vary with what event saddle was designed for. Sounds to me the ones you found more comfortable are your more equitation seat:wink: {seen with most show saddles.}. These also usually designed to have more close contact I'd be trying saddle with more equitation seat or a training/work saddle . Different Western Saddle Types


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## ArabLuver

Sorry I can't really give any advice, but oddly enough, I've never felt pain from my saddle during riding.

Getting my leg rubbed up against a tree/fence post/gate? Yeah, felt that pain a time or four!


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## DraftyAiresMum

ArabLuver said:


> Sorry I can't really give any advice, but oddly enough, I've never felt pain from my saddle during riding.
> 
> Getting my leg rubbed up against a tree/fence post/gate? Yeah, felt that pain a time or four!


I've been dragged through an aligator juniper (Google those bad boys) and smacked in the face with a juniper branch that all my friends managed to duck under, but my monster was too tall for me to avoid it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ArabLuver

DraftyAiresMum said:


> I've been dragged through an aligator juniper (Google those bad boys) and smacked in the face with a juniper branch that all my friends managed to duck under, but my monster was too tall for me to avoid it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think I've ever gotten smacked in the face with a branch... A tail I have. I did get thrown into the water when my horse decided to roll though. I was not a happy camper!


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## nikelodeon79

Abetta = horrible. Hate them.

Big Horn = Much better than Abetta.. No comparison!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DraftyAiresMum

Might something like this be more comfortable than a more flat-seated saddle like mine?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cynical25

Depends entirely on YOUR build. 

Based on that picture, I hope you are quite small, as that seat looks miniscule...


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## DraftyAiresMum

The ad says it's a 16" and shows a pic of it measured as such. I've found that if it's a deeper seat, like a barrel saddle, I can get away with a 16". My flatter-seated pleasure/trail saddle is a 16.5" and it fits just right, but isn't comfortable. Someone on the previous page suggested looking at equitation-style seats, which I'm pretty sure that saddle is.

However, it's a completely moot point, as I'm no longer in the market for a saddle for the foreseeable future (at least not until I sell my Aussie and my current western).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stevenson

i have roping saddles, and an A fork. those are the most comfy I have found. They are not light weight saddles.


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## anndankev

stevenson,

Are you male or female? Just wondering because most roping saddles I've sat on are too wide (the twist?) to be comfortable.

I have found A forks comfortable though, give me a little more room in the front where I need it.


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## smrobs

^^That's why I hate roping saddles; wider twist and flat seats = agony for my hips.

I've tried an equitation seat and I absolutely hated it, but like Cynical said, it depends on you and your preferences/build.


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## stevenson

female. I like the A fork as it is easier on my hips and knees and has a high back for when I rode in the mtns. The roper i have is not real flat, not as flat as the wp show saddles, and is large enough for my behind and is good for short rides and flat trails and has some padding in the seat.


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## JuliaLS15

*Bruises due to western saddles, huh?*

I imagine that happening because the saddle is maybe too big, so your sliding around, and maybe bumping around as well...? I would definitely suggest looking for or trying a Treeless Western Saddle. Regular western saddles have the 'tree', and that's the very hard base of the saddle. Treeless saddles are more comfortable for YOU, your horse, (because they basically fit any horse. When I first got mine it kind of molded to MY horses' back because it was fresh and needed to be broken in) Treeless saddle are a lot lighter as well. 

I hope this helped! I have a Tammy Fisher Treeless Saddle, by Circle Y. And its beautiful and comfortable!! :mrgreen:

I would DEFINITELY try a Treeless if I were you. =)


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## DraftyAiresMum

I don't like the look of treeless saddles at all. Plus they are impossible to find around here at a reasonable price (if you can find them at all).

The saddles I've ridden in have all been 16" saddles, except one or two here and there. I'm 5'7" with a 32" inseam, long thighs, and an ample derrière (even when I was skinnier). I've ridden in a 15" show saddle and it was WAY too small for me. The swells dug into my thighs and I nearly spilled over the cantle. Before I gained weight, the 16" saddles were the ones I fit in (room between me and the pommel and not spilling over the cantle), but they weren't comfortable. I would get quarter-sized bruises under my bottom, where my seat bones would hit, regardless of how I sat in them. Now that I've gained significant weight, the 16" saddles are just too snug (except for barrel-type saddles).

Thanks for the suggestion, though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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