# Sad story



## dop (Nov 7, 2009)

Owned this beautiful guy for less than 24 hours before he suffered a severe extensor tendon laceration to the back left leg. Actually bought him on Saturday, April 10th and he was out of commission by noon on Sunday. :-(

His leg got caught in some sagging tensil wire fencing. I mentioned the fence problem to the BO well before my horse's arrival to her barn. The pictures we took on Saturday show the sagging wire. On Sunday, the fence was fixed. The BO stated the 3rd wire down caused the injury as it had pulled clean from the fence. I asked about the sagging top wire and she denied that it ever sagged. We took so many pictures on Saturday celebrating my horse's arrival to the barn that nearly every picture shows the top sagging wire crossing the 3rd wire in the pasture area where my horse was injured. Blood stains and black hair are all over the top wire as well. My husband got pictures on Sunday to show the differences from one day to the next.

The BO is a very nice person. We've had no problems. My daughter boards her horse at the same place. I was taken back by the fact that she didn't even say she was sorry it happened much less offer to pay some of the medical care expenses, which were and will be considerable. I don't know what my horse's outcome will be. Any chance of trail riding, showing, etc are out the window for at least 9 months considering the rehab he will require...if he even recovers as we hope he will...all still an uncertainty.

In your opinion, is the BO negligent for the ill repair of the fence?


----------



## dop (Nov 7, 2009)

Forgot to attach his picture..


----------



## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

I am sorry for your poor guy's injury.
Honestly, I would say that your argument of negligence would be undermined by the fact that you put your horse into an area that you had doubts about. The fact that you mentioned the wire (which shows you were aware of it, not just the BO) and then put the horse out anyway puts you just as much at fault.


----------



## horselover1428 (Apr 12, 2010)

I'm soo sorry to hear that. He is a gorgeous horse!!!


----------



## dop (Nov 7, 2009)

themacpack said:


> I am sorry for your poor guy's injury.
> Honestly, I would say that your argument of negligence would be undermined by the fact that you put your horse into an area that you had doubts about. The fact that you mentioned the wire (which shows you were aware of it, not just the BO) and then put the horse out anyway puts you just as much at fault.


Thanks for your sympathy-much appreciated. I feel so bad for my horse as he's in pain and will be confined to a stall for the next 3 months. He'll miss the prettiest weather months...

Anyhow, to your point, which is a good one, I asked the BO to fix the fence before he was turned out on Sunday..she didn't fix it..she turned him out...he got injured. Does this make a difference in your opinion regarding negligence?


----------



## dop (Nov 7, 2009)

horselover1428 said:


> I'm soo sorry to hear that. He is a gorgeous horse!!!


Thanks..he is handsome isn't he! Such a gentle soul, too.


----------



## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

I personally would never put a horse with high tensil fencing or barb wire in good or bad condition. It is very prone to doing serious damage. Horses are always getting into fences. High tensil doesn't brake very easily that is why it is so dangerous


----------



## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

P.S. I had a horse that got ran down by a stallion that broke loose. He was chased into some sheet metal and cut him deeply in the front of his pasterns and he made a full recovery. 

Not sure what your arrangements were on the turn out??? But I wouldn't take a horse in unfamilar surrounding and with strange horses and just turn him out unsupervised. That doesn't look like a cheap horse taht should just be plopped in with the herd? Horse sense on everyones part needs to be learned.


----------



## dop (Nov 7, 2009)

churumbeque said:


> P.S. I had a horse that got ran down by a stallion that broke loose. He was chased into some sheet metal and cut him deeply in the front of his pasterns and he made a full recovery.
> 
> Not sure what your arrangements were on the turn out??? But I wouldn't take a horse in unfamilar surrounding and with strange horses and just turn him out unsupervised. That doesn't look like a cheap horse taht should just be plopped in with the herd? Horse sense on everyones part needs to be learned.


The plan for his first day of turn out (Sunday) was to be with another gelding he seemed to bond rather quickly with on Saturday. So, they were turned out together for a couple hours on Sunday and pretty much left to their own devices as the BO went about her other business at the barn. He was left unsupervised in other words.

Thing too is the fact that the BO couldn't get a vet there right away after he was injured. I gave her an hour to do it and when she couldn't arrange things, I called my old vet who dropped everything and got herself out there. It took her an hour to drive to the barn. She masterfully scrubbed and sutured the laceration with unbelieveable skill...so fwiw, his suture line will probably heal well and w/o infection. I'm way more concerned about weight bearing, gait deficits,stringhalt, etc.. that sort of thing.


----------



## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I'm sorry to hear about your guys injuries. I'm not sure about the negligence, I think that it would depend on the laws of your state but it probably falls under some type of protection law for a boarding facility.

When my horse severed her tendons, she was given about a 70% chance of being sound. Her injury was very severe and required emergency surgery so it already sounds like yours is better off then mine was. She healed beautifully. She would not have a scar at all accept she got a fungus on the front part of her leg from being wrapped for that many months. Now she has white speckles on the front of that leg. It is also fatter then the other legs (due to scar tissue), but not by much. She is a bit off. She is not in pain, sound for riding but there is a mechanical lameness. She trail rides, walks, trots, canters, and even jumps on occasion. There is hope. She does not have stringhalt at all.

There was another horse that was injured on the same weekend as her, they opted not to have the surgury, there was an infection and the recovery time was a lot longer than mine. That horse does have stringhalt, BAD at the walk, not noticeable at the trot or canter. The girl that owns it still shows and places. At the trot, her horse has no lameness where mine does. At the walk, mine is just about perfect, hers has the stringhalt.


----------



## dop (Nov 7, 2009)

farmpony84 said:


> I'm sorry to hear about your guys injuries. I'm not sure about the negligence, I think that it would depend on the laws of your state but it probably falls under some type of protection law for a boarding facility.
> 
> There is hope.


Thanks. Sorry to hear the troubles your horse went through! Good to know that horses can have a good outcome or at least an acceptable outcome to this kind of injury. Really don't want my horse to be a pasture puff for the rest of his life...he's only two - doesn't turn three until May. BTW, did your horse wear any kind of immobilizing splint or boot after the surgery? Wondering..because my vet didn't recommend anything like this.

I really don't know what to think regarding the negligence. Seems to me, if I owned the business, I would do everything possible to secure the health and welfare of the animals and to especially reduce my liabilities. Accidents happen but this one could have been avoided.


----------



## dop (Nov 7, 2009)

Some more pics..you can see the top wire sagging in the last picture.


----------



## Lis (Oct 29, 2009)

I would say it's worth talking to someone with legal knowledge, here in Britain there is the CAB. Going off what I've read I think your claim is shaky at best since you knew there was a problem with the wire but you still took your horse onto that yard instead of going somewhere that didn't have a problem. In something like this it will be your word against the BO's.


----------



## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I am very sorry about your horses injuries.


I suppose you are planning on finding a new boarding barn for your daughter and you?

Owning horses is a risky thing. They hurt themselves. You knew there was a risk. 

Just curious, does your daughter's horse go out in that pasture? (Kind of guessing that is why you were taking photos of horses running in that pasture.)

To me it sounds like you are trying to blame someone for something that happens with horses. I mean really, how dare the barn owner not stand there and watch your horse the entire time your horse was turned out with another horse. How dare the BO not jump and fix the fence when you pointed out it was not 100%. And even more horrible, how dare the BOs vet not drop things to run to your aid. 

I would guess that the BO did watch the horses for a while and they seemed fine so they BO then went about their business. If you were that concerned you knew the plan for the day, why were you not there to supervise yourself?
It is the top wire of the fence that is sagging in one area it appears from your photos. Though it is not best I can see why no one jumped to fix it. It is not sagged low enough that it is a real imminent risk (not like it is the bottom strand and it is hanging on the ground in other words). 
Could the BOs vet have been busy with a different emergency and not have been able to drop it to come attend to yours? 

All tragic accidents do not mean someone else has to pay.


----------



## MissH (Apr 10, 2010)

This is so sad... I sincerely wish you all the best and a speedy recovery for your new partner (who is absolutely gorgeous by the way). Please keep us updated on the recovery.


----------



## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I would also look into it. I honostly don't know. When it happened to my horse I had no one to blame but myself. I had a pile of left over aluminum siding next to the riding arena which is not fenced. It was on a hill near the barn but the child riding the horse did not have enough control and the horse trotted on up to the nicer grace and took just one tiny step back. Severed the tendons in the one leg and the artery in the other. It was a pretty scary situation, the next day, it took me less then ten minutes to move the siding to a safer location.

The first couple days after the surgery she was in a cast. (a real cast like what a human would have on a broken arm or leg). After the first couple days the vet removed the cast and then used the back half of it as a brace. So we wrapped with cotton wrap and then a sticky ace type bandage, placed the cast over that and then with the k-flex tape. It was a daily thing for about 4 weeks after she came home from the hospital, she was there for two....


----------



## Curly_Horse_CMT (Jun 8, 2008)

I am so sorry to hear this :-( We had a Arab mare that completly "degloved" her back leg near the hock on high tensile cattle wire. She didn't see it and trotted right into it. It cut her up really bad, and it was down to the tendons. She was on stall rest for months, but she recovered fully with no lameness in the hock or the leg. She only had a scar where the wire had touched her. Keep us updated on your guy. Maybe things will turn out for the better


----------



## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

dop said:


> Some more pics..you can see the top wire sagging in the last picture.


The photo with the white paint with the fly mask? Slightly sagging maybe but I certainly wouldn't be overly concerned about it. 

With only one leg injured it is very likely your BO is correct and it was a lower wire that caused the injury. Horses kick high with BOTH back legs using their front end to get more 'umph'. Actually a sagging wire would be forgiving but a tight wire would cut.

We just had the "safe for horses fencing" discussion here last week. It doesn't matter if you put the horse in a round rubber padded room - a horse can and will find a way to hurt itself.


----------



## dop (Nov 7, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> I am very sorry about your horses injuries.
> 
> Thanks for your sympathy?
> 
> ...


I'm guessing you're a barn owner?


----------



## dop (Nov 7, 2009)

Lis said:


> I would say it's worth talking to someone with legal knowledge, here in Britain there is the CAB. Going off what I've read I think your claim is shaky at best since you knew there was a problem with the wire but you still took your horse onto that yard instead of going somewhere that didn't have a problem. In something like this it will be your word against the BO's.


It may come to my word against hers...good point.


----------



## dop (Nov 7, 2009)

MissH said:


> This is so sad... I sincerely wish you all the best and a speedy recovery for your new partner (who is absolutely gorgeous by the way). Please keep us updated on the recovery.


Thanks so much for your kind words. I'll definitely keep you posted.


----------



## dop (Nov 7, 2009)

farmpony84 said:


> I would also look into it. I honostly don't know. When it happened to my horse I had no one to blame but myself. I had a pile of left over aluminum siding next to the riding arena which is not fenced. It was on a hill near the barn but the child riding the horse did not have enough control and the horse trotted on up to the nicer grace and took just one tiny step back. Severed the tendons in the one leg and the artery in the other. It was a pretty scary situation, the next day, it took me less then ten minutes to move the siding to a safer location.
> 
> The first couple days after the surgery she was in a cast. (a real cast like what a human would have on a broken arm or leg). After the first couple days the vet removed the cast and then used the back half of it as a brace. So we wrapped with cotton wrap and then a sticky ace type bandage, placed the cast over that and then with the k-flex tape. It was a daily thing for about 4 weeks after she came home from the hospital, she was there for two....


Sounds like your horse got excellent care! Interesting about the cast.



Curly_Horse_CMT said:


> I am so sorry to hear this :-( We had a Arab mare that completly "degloved" her back leg near the hock on high tensile cattle wire. She didn't see it and trotted right into it. It cut her up really bad, and it was down to the tendons. She was on stall rest for months, but she recovered fully with no lameness in the hock or the leg. She only had a scar where the wire had touched her. Keep us updated on your guy. Maybe things will turn out for the better


Thanks! Hoping things turn out well for him - my primary concern.


----------



## dop (Nov 7, 2009)

mls said:


> The photo with the white paint with the fly mask? Slightly sagging maybe but I certainly wouldn't be overly concerned about it.
> 
> With only one leg injured it is very likely your BO is correct and it was a lower wire that caused the injury. Horses kick high with BOTH back legs using their front end to get more 'umph'. Actually a sagging wire would be forgiving but a tight wire would cut.
> 
> We just had the "safe for horses fencing" discussion here last week. It doesn't matter if you put the horse in a round rubber padded room - a horse can and will find a way to hurt itself.


Good points..not really sure how it happened as she's changed her story a couple of times. I'll have to look for that thread about 'safe for horses fencing'.


----------



## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

dop,

I feel for you. Like I said, my horses injury was due to my own stupidity. I told my husband 15 times we needed to move that stuff and like I said, when I moved it after the fact, it took less then 10 minutes. I was SO MAD at myself for my own lazy faults. I can COMPLETELY see how you would be angry with a BO. You are PAYING that person to provide care for your horse. You pointed out a potential problem, and your horse got hurt. It is NORMAL to be angry, it's normal to ask the questions you are asking. I really hope that someone can help give you a good answer.

I'm curious as well if the BO could be faulted. I had a horse that was boarded years ago that was injured, not to that extent and he healed, with a huge scar. I always wondered if I could have gotten the BO to pay the vet bills. I just assumed it was an inherent risk. I do not see any wrong in your asking questions. Nor do I see anything wrong with how you are feeling right now....


----------



## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

dop said:


> Thanks for your sympathy?


Sincere sympathy about the injury is only appreciated when it comes from someone who is supporting your theories?
Um, sure....
Just FYI - I am truly sorry your horse was injured. It is sad for all involved. I just have issues with people who insist everything that goes wrong is the fault of someone else.



dop said:


> Perhaps. But my horse is in no condition to move at the present time and my daughter and I really like the barn and the barn owner.


I asked the question about you planning to move because I am guessing your BO is going to ask you to if you start insisting this issue is 100% their fault and start saying to them how they should have watched your horse every second it was turned out the first day and how they should have made their vet drop what they were doing and all that stuff. 




dop said:


> How dare she do this? Well, she is the barn owner and it is her business. She should have fixed the fence when it was brought to her attention as it was her responsibility to do so. I believe it was a reasonable request on my part.


I am assuming you are the type of boarder that would also blame the BO if your horse is playing in turn out and gets hurt some how. Some how the BO was supposed to know that was going to happen and prevent it, right?

Do not know your BO at all but I am guessing she did supervise for some time. All was going well so she went about doing her chores and I am guessing checked on the horses from time to time.

If you had showed up and your stalls were not clean and the BO said, "sorry, did not clean stalls today, stood right here all day making sure this turn out situation worked fine" you would not have been happy about that either.

Something you should realize. Horses are horses. They get hurt. Even with 24/7 supervision. Just like kids. The instant you blink they do something stupid. 

I still wonder how you would have expected the injury from being prevented even if the BO was standing right there. It probably took one kick.



dop said:


> BTW, I pay her for her services which includes the supervision, care, & safety of my horse and my daughter's


Well then.......

Anyone who has ever taken care of a horse knows how funny this sounds. Come on. 
The BO did not toss your horse out with 10 other strange horses and walk away and let happen whatever will happen. Even you say your horse was put out with one horse that your horse got along with the day before.

If I was your BO and I saw you were saying these things on the internet I would for sure be giving you notice to leave.



dop said:


> I have other photos that show the top wire sagging down to the third wire. I was just curious why the BO said the top wire wasn't sagging at all when it clearly was?


I thought the point of that photo you posted was to show us how bad the sagging wire was. Why not post the photos that showed it at its worse?



dop said:


> The BO called several vets & none were available-this does concern me.


Why? 

The day my filly cut her leg on the fence (if you read the other thread about fencing, the story is there) I called three practices in my area. Sutures are a low emergency. I had to wait two hours for a vet to come out. They were dealing with real emergency issues like colic (one hospital), another suture issues that had called earlier than me (the vet that came out), and a cow having birthing issues (third vet).



dop said:


> I'm guessing you're a barn owner?


Um. No. Well not in the sense that you are referencing. I have my horses at home. Do not have any boarders (will not have any boarders because of situations like this actually).
I have boarded for many many years. I have seen lots of different types of boarders. I totally sympathize with barn owners who have to put up with boarders, that is all.


With all this BO does that you hate so much I am totally not getting why you say you are wanting to stay there. You do not trust this BO obviously. You feel she is giving inadequate care (at least that is what you are saying to us).




dop said:


> True, not all, but sometimes someone else does have to pay. That's life and truly it's not personal.


I suppose I should have gone after the people that made the gate my filly cut her leg on. Who would have guessed she could cut her leg on a pipe gate. It must be their fault, right? Though I suppose it would not have happened if I never went to work and sat next to the pasture all day long and did nothing but watch. :wink:

BTW - you did not answer, is your daughter's horse turned out in that pasture with the loose wire?
When you left on Saturday did you say to the barn owner, "I see that wire in Dobbin's pasture is still loose. I do not want my new horse turned out there until the wire is fixed?"


----------



## dop (Nov 7, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> I totally sympathize with barn owners who have to put up with boarders, that is all.


I totally get that.


----------



## dop (Nov 7, 2009)

farmpony84 said:


> dop,
> 
> I feel for you. Like I said, my horses injury was due to my own stupidity. I told my husband 15 times we needed to move that stuff and like I said, when I moved it after the fact, it took less then 10 minutes. I was SO MAD at myself for my own lazy faults. I can COMPLETELY see how you would be angry with a BO. You are PAYING that person to provide care for your horse. You pointed out a potential problem, and your horse got hurt. It is NORMAL to be angry, it's normal to ask the questions you are asking. I really hope that someone can help give you a good answer.
> 
> I'm curious as well if the BO could be faulted. I had a horse that was boarded years ago that was injured, not to that extent and he healed, with a huge scar. I always wondered if I could have gotten the BO to pay the vet bills. I just assumed it was an inherent risk. I do not see any wrong in your asking questions. Nor do I see anything wrong with how you are feeling right now....


Thanks. I really appreciate your post. Not sure what I'm going to do. I may consult an attorney. I may not. No amount of money can compensate imo. 

BTW, my horse is eating well, drinking plenty of fluids, taking his meds w/o difficulty, bearing weight on the injured leg but still knuckling. Not sure what I'll find when I change the dressing today. Hope the suture line is intact.


----------



## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

dop said:


> It may come to my word against hers...good point.


Bottom line - what does your contract say about injuries suffered on property?

I am a BO. I have a personal horse in every turnout situation with my boarders horses. I have had vet bills due to boarders horses hurting my personal horses. Stuff happens. Even if someone were to stand and watch 24/7 - horses will do amazingly stupid things.

You probably do not want to hear this - but in the whole of this issue - I do not feel the BO is responsible for the injury. The horse kicked out. The horse was being a horse. You can't blame the BO - or yourself - for that.


----------



## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

You did not answer, is your daughter's horse turned out in that pasture with the loose wire?

​


----------



## dop (Nov 7, 2009)

mls said:


> Bottom line - what does your contract say about injuries suffered on property?


I asked for the contract (in writing) two weeks before I brought the horse in. She never gave me a contract to sign. I asked again for the contract the day I brought him in. Didn't happen. No contract exists. However, given I signed one for my daughter's horse, there is one on file and technically she could make an argument for an 'implied' contract..or maybe not. Don't know - I'm not an atty.



mls said:


> I am a BO. I have a personal horse in every turnout situation with my boarders horses. I have had vet bills due to boarders horses hurting my personal horses. Stuff happens. Even if someone were to stand and watch 24/7 - horses will do amazingly stupid things.
> 
> You probably do not want to hear this - but in the whole of this issue - I do not feel the BO is responsible for the injury. The horse kicked out. The horse was being a horse. You can't blame the BO - or yourself - for that.


She should have fixed the fence when I asked. That truly is the issue imo. Again, I'm not an atty.


----------



## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Did you expressly instruct the BO not to put your horse in the enclosure with the loose wire until the wire was fixed? By your own admission, you were aware that - in your opinion - the enclosure was unsafe. Unless YOU took action (by giving such instruction), you are just as liable as anyone else in the situation.


----------



## dop (Nov 7, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> You did not answer, is your daughter's horse turned out in that pasture with the loose wire?


My daughter's horse, my horse, and the BO's horse were turned out together in that pasture with the loose wire on Saturday. First time ever any horses were turned out in that pasture. BO's property is huge with multiple pastures. My family and I were there the entire day on Saturday. As I said before, had the injury occurred on Saturday when we were present, circumstances would be different. ON SATURDAY AFTERNOON BEFORE I LEFT, I asked the BO to fix the fence. On Sunday, my horse was turned out with the BO's horse - injury occurred on Sunday. My family and I were not there when the injury occurred - we planned to arrive later in the day. Clear enough?


----------



## dop (Nov 7, 2009)

themacpack said:


> Did you expressly instruct the BO not to put your horse in the enclosure with the loose wire until the wire was fixed? QUOTE]
> 
> yes


----------



## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

dop said:


> yes


That is not what you said above. You said you told them to fix the wire, not that you did not want your horse out there with the broken wire. Two VERY different things.

And you basically gave the OK for both your horses to go out into that pasture when you put them out there on Saturday.

Do you honestly think if you were standing there you could have prevented a kicking injury?


----------



## dop (Nov 7, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> That is not what you said above. You said you told them to fix the wire, not that you did not want your horse out there with the broken wire. Two VERY different things.
> 
> And you basically gave the OK for both your horses to go out into that pasture when you put them out there on Saturday.
> 
> Do you honestly think if you were standing there you could have prevented a kicking injury?


Do you like to argue for the sake of arguing? Not playing sorry..


----------



## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

No, not at all. 

I thought you wanted to know the validity of a claim for the BO being at fault. I am pointing out the issues with your theory.

It is not arguing for the sake of arguing at all. Sorry you do not like decent to your theories.


If you plan to start legal action you probably should have a plan for moving the horses, just keep that in mind.


----------



## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

If you are so certain that you have legal grounds, contact an attorney and move forward. However, be prepared to be paying not only vet bills, but also legal fees if the courts do not see this your way.


----------



## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

themacpack said:


> If you are so certain that you have legal grounds, contact an attorney and move forward. However, be prepared to be paying not only vet bills, but also legal fees if the courts do not see this your way.


This I totally agree with!

Be sure to tell your lawyer that you posted all kinds of details on a public internet BB.


----------



## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Do you know that the fence was NOT fixed when your horse was injured? 

The barn owner might be saying the fence was not sagging because the fence was not sagging at the time of the injury.

You have proof that the fence was sagging on Saturday. And you have proof that the fence was not sagging on Sunday. You have no proof of when the fence was fixed in between and that it was not fixed while your horse was out. 

The injury you describe could have easily happened if the horse kicked hard at the tight fence.


----------



## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

dop said:


> She should have fixed the fence when I asked. That truly is the issue imo. Again, I'm not an atty.


You do not have absolute proof the top wire of the fence caused the injury. As the friend of an equine attorney I can tell you - no proof - no basis for a case. It goes back to your contract. If you do not have one in place, an attorney is going to lay the blame at your feet for leaving a horse on premise without that piece of paper.

As Alwaysbehind said - you do not know when the fence was fixed. As a BO, I am up way early and in the barn very late doing things so as not to disturb my boarders. (and honestly so they are not in my way!)

I am sorry - you are upset and frustrated. Been there done that from both sides of the table. As previously stated - horses do amazingly stupid things. Your horse is young and otherwise healthy. Both positives for a speedy recovery.


----------

