# Proud-cut or just stud-like?



## haileyandbandit (Feb 4, 2012)

Hey guys,

I've had my pony, Bandit, for about nine years now. He's 18, and I know from his previous owners that he was not gelded until he was 5. He's always been stud-like, gets super "puffed" up when he meets new horses, does the big pawing and screaming ordeal, and he's always been the head of his herd. At our previous barn he had been mounting the mares in his pasture, I didn't think much of it (I was like 13 at the time) and we simply moved him to a gelding pasture.

Now, at my new barn a few years down the road, I recently moved him out of his gelding pasture and he's in a pasture with one mare. About a week ago this mare went into heat, and I didn't know that until I tried to take Bandit out of his pasture. He started freaking out, he was being very vocal and pushy, very anxious to get back to his pasture. He has fabulous ground manners because we do a lot of ground work, and I've never seen him act this way. 

At first I thought he was missing his boys, then I noticed every time I put him back in his pasture he would go galloping off to wherever she was with his sheath out.

I know it's quite silly for me to just be noticing this now, but he's mostly been with geldings over the years, and I've just honestly never thought about it!

Are these just stud-like tendencies because he was gelded late? Or should I get some bloodwork done to see if he may be proud cut?


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## gssw5 (Jul 30, 2013)

The only way you can tell if he is proud cut is get the blood test done, and at his age your options to fix him may be limited, and you will have to keep him with geldings. In the spring it seems the mares and geldings get hormone surges, so if he ever covered a mare before he was gelded he may remember. If he is proud cut the extra testosterone is adding fuel to the fire.

My gelding is proud cut. His blood test shows his testosterone is as high as a breeding stallion, surgery to try find the missing testicle has failed twice. Despite his hormones and urges with training and certain precautions he is a stellar member of the equine community. This time of year he gets really aggressive towards all horses and must be kept by himself. Once spring is past he calms down and I can put him with my geldings again. If you really want to know get the blood test done.


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## elbandita (Sep 13, 2013)

Proud cut is a Stud castrated too early and is still half intact. It's noticeable. They are able to reproduce with mares. 

Cryptorchid isn't noticeable and can only be proven through blood work. It's a testi that hasn't dropped.


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## gssw5 (Jul 30, 2013)

elbandita I apologize, around here we use the term interchangeably. It seems then my gelding (I use the term lightly) is cryptorchid, and after being cut open twice the vets have been unable to locate the missing testicle. His studly behavior increases this time of year and I have learned how to handle him safely.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Either are able. It's _unlikely_ with a cryptorchid but not impossible. (Having the testicle in the body the heat, in theory, kills all the sperm) Don't know about proud cut.

If the gelding is at all study and there's any question that he is not 110% gelded, keep him away from mares!! (Even one that is 110% gelded may need to be kept away simply for behavior issues)


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

If he's mounting the mares "fully" you should be concerned about infection to the mare too, not to mention all the squabbling.


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## elbandita (Sep 13, 2013)

gssw5 said:


> elbandita I apologize, around here we use the term interchangeably. It seems then my gelding (I use the term lightly) is cryptorchid, and after being cut open twice the vets have been unable to locate the missing testicle. His studly behavior increases this time of year and I have learned how to handle him safely.


No need for apologies. we're all here to learn. 
The testicle simply traipses off track in the Cryptorchid. They don't reproduce but have stallion hormones. Quite Dangerous. The behavior is triggered by daylight hours as with the mare henceforward why they often display this stallion like behavior during the months we have the most sunlight. Breeding season.

One of my geldings is cryptorchid as well.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

^JW you said your gelding is a cryptorchid.. Do you mean he "was" a cryptorchid, or that he wasn't gelded?


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## elbandita (Sep 13, 2013)

Yogiwick said:


> ^JW you said your gelding is a cryptorchid.. Do you mean he "was" a cryptorchid, or that he wasn't gelded?


To metaphrase My "Gelding" is a cryptorchid. 
I wasn't aware of the discrepancy until you mentioned it. lol



your vet can preform a test just for cryptorchidism.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Ah ok. Just noticed because there was another thread where the girl was having issues with her "gelding" and the consensus was that the issues are because he is NOT a gelding. If you think of them as a gelding you will run into issues down the road. As long as you know the difference it doesn't matter but it's easy for some people to talk themselves into something else lol.

Thanks for clarifying, I was just curious


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

Someone on the form just had a foal out of her mare and her sisters "gelding" (cryptorchid). Sooo its not IMPOSSIBLE.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Yes you have a stallion until they are surgically completely gelded


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## haileyandbandit (Feb 4, 2012)

Thanks for all your replies! I put him back in with his geldings this afternoon, and I'll get some blood work done when my vet comes out next week. I will say, if his blood work comes back with positive results of testosterone it will explain A LOT haha. Thank you all for your input!


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## haileyandbandit (Feb 4, 2012)

Hey guys, just an update for this thread incase anyone was wondering! Bandit's test results came back from his blood test, and turns out he has reallyyyy high levels of testosterone (this explains a lot). However, since he is 18 and it is only a problem in the spring with mares, I'm just going to keep him with his gelding buddies. Thank you all for your input, I'm very glad I got him tested. For some reason or another, he was improperly gelded (I'm guessing), and by his testosterone levels seems to be capable of reproducing, so this is good to know!


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

I have a gelding that had been correctly cut. But the cord was not cut short enough, and over the years had grown out to inguinal ring and was producing testosterone, and horse was getting more studdy each month.

Had the surgery to fix that problem and no more problems with him.

He had not started any real problems but had been seen "breeding" a mare too.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Palomine said:


> I have a gelding that had been correctly cut. But the cord was not cut short enough, and over the years had grown out to inguinal ring and was producing testosterone, and horse was getting more studdy each month.
> 
> Had the surgery to fix that problem and no more problems with him.
> 
> He had not started any real problems but had been seen "breeding" a mare too.


Do vets take any special care to make sure the cord doesn't come through the inguinal ring?

The reason I ask is because when my colt was gelded (at age 5 months) the end of one of the cords was extending through the incision. He ended up getting an infection from it but with antibiotics he healed up just fine. And no study behavior. But I don't know why my guy had the cord coming out of his incision. It was an infection waiting to happen and my vet didn't seem very concerned about it. :-( 

All is fine now, but I'm just curious if another vet would have done something about it?


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