# Horse bucked me off



## shellybean (Dec 28, 2012)

I have ridden Apollo 5 times in the past 2 weeks and he was doing great. Tonight he was acting anxious and kept circling the mounting block when I was trying to get on and he would NOT stand still and would walk forward or back when I would try to get on. I stayed calm and kept trying. I finally had to call one of my friends in to hold him and he was still being antsy but I finally got on. He had this scary look in his eye, pinned his ears and took off bucking. I flew off over his head onto the ground and he trotted off. I got up brushed off my pants and tried to get back on but he was acting antsy again and kept circling and I _knew_ he'd throw me off again, he had that look in his eye...I kept calm and I hand walked him around then took off his tack and free lunged him and he took off running, he ran himself for a good 5-10 minutes nonstop, so he didn't get away with not having to work.

I just don't understand why he bucked me off...I've ridden him a couple of times and he was fine and really seemed to enjoy being ridden and was so willing and tried so hard. But today he was like a different horse. I don't know if something was hurting him, if it was because it was dinner time and they were about to do grain, the weather change, built up energy, not being worked in a couple days, I didn't lunge him before? I just dont know...I'm not scared to get back on, I just don't want to hop on again and get bucked off and have him think he can get away with it. Its really hard to stick bucks in an english saddle...

I'd appreciate any advice. In the mean time I'm just going to do more ground work until I figure out whats causing his bucking.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Horse is showing you the holes in training more than likely.

Cold, dinner and energy level all contributed to this, as well as you may only now be seeing the real horse.

And yes, he DID get away with not having to work, as he did what he wanted, and running around was not working to him. He got you off, he won.

I don't know anything in depth about you/horse or situation, but I would suggest getting a trainer, if you don't already have one, go back to some basics, and see if your feed is making him too hot as it might be.

I also wonder if you haven't been overhorsed, and are just now going to be seeing the real horse. But really bad for horse to have unloaded you, as he will not forget it.

And if you are doing any babying of horse? Stop it.


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## BaileyJo (Aug 23, 2011)

Please get a trainer to help you with him. You don't want to get thrown again as it will do something to your psychie and you will begin to lose confidence. Once you have been thrown once or twice, fear and mistrust start to creep in. Sounds like it may already have. 

Call in a professional to work out the bugs. You will be glad you did. And absolutely stop babying and trying to be nice. Horses don't appreciate you the way humans do.


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## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

Your first clue was when he didn't stand still to get on. Instead of calling your friend, you should have gotten out the longeline or ground work immediately. You simply did not read your horse from the very beginning. 

Before I get on, I always do a "flight check". Is my horse standing still, letting me flex from the ground? Does my horse disengage the hindquarters from the ground with ease? If at any time I feel as if my horse is not listening to me, or not responding to me, I do a course of ground control straight away. Especially in winter, sometimes horses need to get off a little energy and warm up to the saddle and adjust to putting their whole focus on you and not on environmental factors.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

You made several mistakes, but the biggest one is that you failed to 'read' your horse. He tried and tried to tell you that it was not a good idea to get on. He really did.

When he acted antsy and fussy and tried to NOT let you get on; he was screaming at you that he was not 'ready and able' to do what you wanted from him. 

You broke rule #1: * Make sure your horse is ready and able to do what you are going to ask of him. *It is all preparation, preparation and more preparation.

Under the circumstances, you should have round -penned or longed him until his head was hanging and he WANTED to stand still. I do not care if you longed him back and forth with 100 direction changes --- or longed him over a tarp on the ground that he did not want to go near --- or round penned him over and through and between places he did not want to go. I have taken one like that to a pond and longed him up and down the pond dam. I've made them go back and forth over a big log. Get the point? In a while, that mounting block would look pretty darn good.

Then, if I had time I would mount and dismount about 10 times and when he was standing there bored out of his gourd, I would have put him up. 

I'm afraid that Palomine is right. He did chunk your butt and he got away without being ridden. He plainly won. He would NOT have won if you had stayed off until he was ready to get on and stood perfectly still AND RELAXED. This is how their brain works. Now, he will be 10 times worse and it will take a pretty good hand to get him ridden.


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## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

The only time I've seen any of our horses or the horse boarded here was at feeding time, they knew it was feeding time and would be antsy......I usually try to feed them when we are done riding for the day.
He definetly was trying to tell you he was not wanting you on, yes you should have done some ground work at that point rather than get on him but hopefully now you've learnt from your mistake and it won't happen again.....good luck and hope he doesn't throw you off again!!


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## shellybean (Dec 28, 2012)

Thank you all for your comments and advice, I really appreciate it.

I am going to start looking for a trainer. When I took lessons I always had a trainer at the barn I was riding at so I never had to go out and find my own...I will talk to my grandma since she still rides, and most likely knows of some trainers in the area. But if any of you know of any trainers in the Chicago area that'd be great.

The only thing is, I feel I did a great job on his ground work. I have completed everything I have read about online regarding groundwork, (most of it on this forum) and watched in training videos and had advice from people at my barn. I put A LOT of time and work into it and I feel it is very good. When I rode him for the first time, at my barn, he didn't think twice about having me on his back...or the next 4 times I rode him so that is why I am confused as to why yesterday he decided he didn't want me riding him...

I agree I should have listened to what he was telling me, but I felt if he kept walking circles around the mounting block he was getting was he was wanting as well, me not riding him. I planned on just sitting on him for a second and hopping off because he was so antsy, and if I sat on him for a second he still wouldn't win the battle at the mounting block...but he had a different idea.


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

Just to clarify, you are the one who has done the training of this horse? More or less that you broke him? This was only the 6th time he has ever been rode?

Assuming the answer is yes to all 3, here are things I see:

Even though you think he is doing good on the ground, there are holes in the training. 

He is green. He's testing you. 

There are times to remain calm and there are times to get after them. We weren't there so I can't say for sure why he was acting like he was. But, if he was acting antsy, I probably would have got after him. I definitely would have got after him after bucking you off. I would have made him work hard and got back on, but thats just me. Hand walking and remaining calm did nothing to correct it. 

When you free lunged, did he do what you asked? Doesn't sound like it because you said he took off bucking. Definitely should have got after him to make him listen to you. Essentially, he won there too. 

Learning off the Internet, reading books, and watching videos is ok. But having someone there in person is so much better. Timing is everything when training. You can't learn that over the Internet. Having someone to show you how and when to release or apply pressure is necessary. You may have a good understanding of what to do, but there are things you are missing that just come with experience. 

As for the mounting block issue, if he wants to move, make him move and energetically. Make standing still easy and moving around uncomfortable.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

Dinner time is a big deal to horses! So if it's that time of day and someone is out rattling feed sacks and handing out the grits I'm not surprised he was not attentive.
I fully understand a horse should listen to you and all but I would plan your riding and work time before or after meal time. I don't know the age of the horse or his training level at this point but I would plan the work sessions at a time that you are likely to have the most positive results. Just my humble opinion.
Glad you weren't hurt. I've hit the dirt a time or two and it isn't fun.


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## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

Ground control is not something you do and move on from, ground control is a tool for you to use whenever you have a problem. He is perfect at ground control usually? Great! Now see how perfect he is at ground control when you have a problem! Time to use those tools. 

Some people run into a lot of problems when their horse is great at ground control in a relaxed environment; but when the horse goes to a new environment, or is scared, or is excited and fresh, all the ground control they learned is thrown out the window. Now you're up to the next step, actually putting your ground control to use!


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

I am really glad you didn't get seriously hurt. Getting thrown from a horse can result in so many serious injuries (broken neck, dislocated discs in your back, etc etc).

Training a horse from the ground sounds like this is above your current skill level. He was very clearly giving you WAVING RED FLAGS that something was different about his attitude. The fact that you failed to see these obvious cues makes me agree with the others that a trainer (in person) will greatly help you with this horse. 

Don't take that as slam against you -- ALL OF US were where you were, at some point in our lives. You have to start somewhere. 



shellybean said:


> The only thing is, I feel I did a great job on his ground work. I have completed everything I have read about *online *regarding groundwork, (most of it on this forum) and watched in training *videos* and had advice from people at my barn. I put A LOT of time and work into it and I feel it is very good. When I rode him for the first time, at my barn, he didn't think twice about having me on his back...or the next 4 times I rode him so that is why I am confused as to why yesterday he decided he didn't want me riding him...
> 
> I agree I should have listened to what he was telling me, but I felt if he kept walking circles around the mounting block he was getting was he was wanting as well, me not riding him. I planned on just sitting on him for a second and hopping off because he was so antsy, and if I sat on him for a second he still wouldn't win the battle at the mounting block...but he had a different idea.


Riding 5 times in the past 2 weeks typically is NOT enough for a very young horse just starting out. Short daily sessions are much better. 

How are his ground manners? Of course, on this particular day, they were horrible, since he completely refused to stand still. That's why moving his feet, making him lunge, and making him LISTEN and FOCUS on you would have been more effective before you got on. As someone else already mentioned, that's a "flight check" to see how your horse is feeling for the day. 

Before I get on a young horse learning to ride, I'm paying attention to their behavior the instant I get them in the pasture. How do they stand when I check and pickout all of their feet? Brushing them? Saddling? Then I will lunge them for a few minutes to make sure they stop when I ask, turn when I ask, back up when I ask, move their shoulders or hindquarters independently when I ask, etc. Then I will stand next to them on the ground, and ask them to them to flex their head (with the bit) both ways so I know that my "turning" and "stopping" will work when I get on board them. If they have been acting goosey, I will ask them to give their head to my knee as I am mounting. That way, if they do try something, I've already got their head to my knee to stop the buck. 

Depending on the horse, I will eventually skip some of these steps. But with some of them, I'm doing this check for a full 30 days. Just depends on the horse. 

If you are not able to ride through a buck, it's best to have someone else ride. You don't want your horse getting away with it. 

Or, if you can at least keep a hold on the reins when you have fallen (this is why I ride young horses with long split reins), then you can work their BUTT off immediately from the ground, and show them that this was NOT acceptable. 

I'd be very careful with your horse right now, because he got you off once. He has now learned that he can do what he wants if he gets rid of you. It will be a hard lesson to re-teach for him.


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## Beling (Nov 3, 2009)

You don't know why he bucked; I don't know why you insisted on riding!

I have a fairly laid-back horse, but one thing she does, is get weird when she knows she's going to be trailered. We can play trailer-loading forever, she loves getting in and out; but when she knows she's going somewhere (by watching us prepare, filliing tires etc.) she starts getting strange. She'll start figiting during grooming, until she can't stand still, and so on.

I once noticed this, but we weren't going anywhere, so I thought as soon as she figured it out, she'd be fine. But it wasn't. She gave me a stellar ride, because she was so forward; but then she just stood still, shook her head, and I knew she was going to blow. I couldn't even get off! Finally, after a lot of one-rein-stops, I was able to dismount. (Quicker than I thought I could!)

She seemed fine; then, leading her back to the barn, she just took off, and ran away, with the reins flapping. She ran and ran and ran. Usually she runs BEFORE I bring her in (when she knows she's going to be trailered).

I'm writing this long story just to add to the general sentiment, that when things don't seem right, they probably aren't; stay safe! From that experience, whenever I have the least doubt, I'll lunge first. It helps release anxiety, and I can gauge how anxious she really is.


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

You should check his saddle fitting. Make sure there are no burrs or anything that could upset him. Also, make sure you do enough groundwork so he is listening. If he isn't listening to you on the ground, there is no way he will listen to you on his back. Try doing more than just lunging. I mean, if you kept going around and around in circles - I would get pretty bored and probably stop listening. Just a thought.

Hope this helped!!


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## shellybean (Dec 28, 2012)

Thanks again for the great advice.

Something I wanted to clear up...He is nearly 12 years old, so he is not a young horse, he was "started" by his previous owner within the past year. The owner threw a saddle on his back and walked him around his property and indoor arena a handful of times. I brought him home in December and started him on ground work before even thinking of riding him. He caught on extremely fast and was very eager to please. After 2 months of consistent groundwork (5 days a week) I decided to hop on after one of our lunging sessions because he was doing SO well. He took to it like nothing and acted right at home under saddle. I then rode him again the next day and gave him the next two off because it was the weekend and he gets the weekends off. I then wasn't feeling very well that Monday so I just did some groundwork and took it easy with him and did some fun exercises. I worked Tuesday and got called into work early on Wednesday so here goes another 2 days I could have riden...my schedule continues like this since I've been getting called in a lot and have had less barn time and the only times I can make it out is during feeding which I'm not too fond of. I wish I could have ridden him every day, but my work is so unpredictable that I have been making it out to the barn less than I'd like... hence only riding him 5 times in the past 2 weeks (10 days to be exact...first ride was on February 12).

I usually go out around 1 every week day and stay until about 3:30 but that night I went around 4:30-7 so it was a drastic change from when I usually come.


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## Wanstrom Horses (Dec 23, 2012)

So basically the horse was fresh and need worked up until he was good and sweaty before you climbed on.. It's pretty simple to figure out. Just work him up really good, not just for five minutes, do twenty if you feel like you need to.


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

The wide eyes make me think something was really bothering him to begin with. Was he acting this way BEFORE you put the saddle on? (something pinching him?) Have you been riding him WITH other horses close and this time didnt? (herd sour?)

But on a green horse you HAVE to lunge them first BEFORE getting on to gauge the attitude your dealing with that day. It's an animal, not a machine. You will wont have too much fluctuation with him being a gelding. 

AND I have had a trainer tell me: if your on the horse and he bucks.... hold on, but if you can, GET OFF! Your most likely going to get hurt. I know this goes against ALOTcof stuff you've heard, but the bottom line to it is: the horse is bucking bc it isnt ready to accept the saddle and/or rider. 

You have to work on this. And I have seen this same trainer have horses started just like your in a month (CONSTANT DAILY TRAINING!-it doesnt have to be intense everyday, but as long as it's every day.). And one of these horses he has broken goes to the local saddle club in the summer and is currently being rode by a young girl (around 10-12yrs old). Plus lets face it. Most of us are too old, or dependent on our health to get thrown off a horse. And if you can lower the risk of getting hurt, but working harder to prevent it, it's probably a not a horrible idea. 

You may have a little problem with respect here too.

I'm not saying dont get back on his back. I mean, start again! He does that, get off and start working with making him comfortable with it. WORKING! Put a ball on his back, climb up and get down, repeatedly. Get him comfortable....

Whites in the eyes is fear though. Think through everything really well! Try to figure it out, bc it wasnt for NO REASON! 


I'd like to point out that this trainers brother is exactly opposite. He wants you to hold on buckaroo! But he got my horse to stop rearing back on the rider. Turns out it was a communication problem. And he hasnt reared since....


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## shellybean (Dec 28, 2012)

He wasn't acting like this before hand while I was tacking him up. He is always a little wiggly when putting on his girth so that is nothing new, we're working on that too tho. I will put it on and take it off and repeat multiple times and he gets less and less wiggly every time.

I had lunged him every other time before riding him so that was a mistake on my part for not doing that. Our routine was all over the place that night...I'm usually out around 1, I get him from pasture, groom him, tack him up, lunge him for 10 mins, practice standing at the mounting block while I put weight in the stirrup a couple of times, look at his body/face/ears for any signals (and he's been calm but attentive every other time), and then I get on sit for a couple seconds and then walk on. But that night I came out around 4:30/5:00 (near feeding time), brought him in from pasture, put him in the arena for 10 mins since the tractor was in the aisle cleaning the last couple of stalls and was blocking the cross ties, brought him to the cross ties afterwards, groomed him, tacked him up, brought him in the arena and skipped lunging (I honestly don't know why I did...stupid of me), checked his girth and then attempted to get on while he was acting up. I didn't want to let him get away with acting up even though he was giving me all the warning signals...I figured I'd sit on his back and get right back off but I didn't have enough time to dismount safely lol. Although he did throw me in a way where I summersaulted and didn't hit the ground hard at all and I am not even sore from the fall.


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## palogal (May 30, 2008)

Option 1: Pain
Option 2: Lack of focus.

This horse needs more ground work if he thinks it's acceptable to buck under saddle.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

shellybean said:


> Thanks again for the great advice.
> 
> Something I wanted to clear up...*He is nearly 12 years old, so he is not a young horse*, he was "started" by his previous owner within the past year. The owner threw a saddle on his back and walked him around his property and indoor arena a handful of times. I brought him home in December and started him on ground work before even thinking of riding him. He caught on extremely fast and was very eager to please. After 2 months of consistent groundwork (5 days a week) I decided to hop on after one of our lunging sessions because he was doing SO well. He took to it like nothing and acted right at home under saddle. I then rode him again the next day and gave him the next two off because it was the weekend and he gets the weekends off. I then wasn't feeling very well that Monday so I just did some groundwork and took it easy with him and did some fun exercises. I worked Tuesday and got called into work early on Wednesday so here goes another 2 days I could have riden...my schedule continues like this since I've been getting called in a lot and have had less barn time and the only times I can make it out is during feeding which I'm not too fond of. I wish I could have ridden him every day, but my work is so unpredictable that I have been making it out to the barn less than I'd like... hence only riding him 5 times in the past 2 weeks (10 days to be exact...first ride was on February 12).
> 
> I usually go out around 1 every week day and stay until about 3:30 but that night I went around 4:30-7 so it was a drastic change from when I usually come.


Thank you for the extra background information. That helps. Just because you are now riding him, doesn't mean you should stop groundwork exercises. As many of us have pointed out, groundwork before you ride is a fantastic way to see what mood your horse is in for the day. 

But it doesn't matter how old he is. He is still a green inexperienced horse. I completely understand that work gets in the way, but green horses _require_ a lot of time. Especially if some issues are cropping up, like they are now.

And if you vary the time you ride, it really should not matter. He should be expected to focus on you even if it's 3 AM in the morning. Again, its all about being able to read your horse and get a feel for what mood he is in, so that you can deal with him appropriately.


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

shellybean said:


> He wasn't acting like this before hand while I was tacking him up. He is always a little wiggly when putting on his girth so that is nothing new, we're working on that too tho. I will put it on and take it off and repeat multiple times and he gets less and less wiggly every time.
> 
> I had lunged him every other time before riding him so that was a mistake on my part for not doing that. Our routine was all over the place that night...I'm usually out around 1, I get him from pasture, groom him, tack him up, lunge him for 10 mins, practice standing at the mounting block while I put weight in the stirrup a couple of times, look at his body/face/ears for any signals (and he's been calm but attentive every other time), and then I get on sit for a couple seconds and then walk on. But that night I came out around 4:30/5:00 (near feeding time), brought him in from pasture, put him in the arena for 10 mins since the tractor was in the aisle cleaning the last couple of stalls and was blocking the cross ties, brought him to the cross ties afterwards, groomed him, tacked him up, brought him in the arena and skipped lunging (I honestly don't know why I did...stupid of me), checked his girth and then attempted to get on while he was acting up. I didn't want to let him get away with acting up even though he was giving me all the warning signals...I figured I'd sit on his back and get right back off but I didn't have enough time to dismount safely lol. Although he did throw me in a way where I summersaulted and didn't hit the ground hard at all and I am not even sore from the fall.


Ok, WHEN did he start acting like a goob, lol... If he was behaving before you tacked up, then there you go. It could have been as simple. OR he saw something else that got him that way. But yea, main reason you lunge is to check that. I STILL lunge my mare and she's been broke for two years. The lady that trained me lunges ALL her horses real quick before riding. EVEN if it's just one pass in both directions. Just making sure the saddle sits right and that the horse is listening and ready to work. Just dont forget this step next time. I was actually a little scared to tell you to get off, lol.... I thought someone was going to pick it apart (SO THANKS EVERYONE!). Bc I didnt mean dont get back on. I just meant spend awhile (the same day) getting him to accept the rider. And then get back on. I'm a momma, I cant afford to get hurt bad. LOL....

IMO I think something was pinching him or pressing wrong, but without being there I cant pick apart the situation myself, lol...

You got some really good advise from everyone, just try to apply it.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Everyone gave excellent advice. This horse showed every sign of needing groundwork. Sometimes even letting them out to "play" will fix a problem like this.

My mare Selena is a hot horse sometimes when she's fresh. She does the same thing. She'll tell me when she's having a frisky day. She won't hold still, she'll move when I try to get on, snort or paw and look anxious. I could, in theory, get on and ride it out of her immediately but that's the less safe option of the two. When she shows this behavior, I choose to just take her immediately to the round pen and turn her out and leave her. Fifteen minutes or so later I come back, she's run around and played, we're ready to go. 

When you got off and let this horse run, he ran on his own accord, right? He was hot, he wanted to play, you let him have what he wanted. I would of gotten back on it I were you after that playtime was over.

Now, playtime isn't an option to miss groundwork either. Often after I turn a horse out I will reclip the lead and just move their hindquarters, sidepass them down the fence, back them up, just kind of a "Hey, you ready now?" type deal.

With a horse like this if it continues, just starting out with groundwork is good as well. I just prefer to turn my mare out because she's a finished horse and doesn't always need that extra constant mental work before a ride to be focused. This horse, however, sounds like he might.


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

The fact that this horse would not stand for mounting is your first clue he is not ready to be ridden.......when my trainer helps me with my horses one of the skills he works on is positioning at a mounting block.....the horse must learn how to stand beside the mounting block....not in front, not out to the side, not back of the mounting block and not too close to the mounting block.....but beside the mounting block....and he must stand quietly while being fussed over...... etc.....he must stand like a block beside the block.......the trainer does this all while standing on the mounting block.....he uses a halter with a lead rope and a long dressage or buggy whip and directs the horse into position with pressure from the lead and taps from the whip on both the inside hip and outside hip.....once they learn this lesson mounting is easy.

I think you need to go back to the beginning and start over.......your horse sounds like it is suddenly feeling overwhelmed with the amount of information you have given him and maybe he has not had enough time to process it all.

When my trainer backs young horses they all know how to give to the bit, can do shoulder in, haunches out, turn on the forehand, they know how to steer......all of this is done in hand.....so once the rider gets on its a non issue.

Super Nova


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

I just want to say that you should not HAVE to lunge a horse before getting on. If you do, there are serious gaps in your training. Some easy yielding exercises from the ground can be a good way to gauge your horse's mood and get him in a work mindset. He should listen without having to run laps first. Lunging before every ride will just increase his stamina, not to mention let him think that he always gets to run around before doing slower work under saddle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bellasmom (Jun 22, 2011)

I agree with riccil0ve, I generally don't lunge prior to riding. My horses understand that saddle=work. Once tacked they're on my time, period. I do flex either way from the ground, disengage hindquarters, prior to getting on, but that's it. In your case, with the horse acting that out of character, I would have untacked & retacked to check for any problems there. If he was still being a turkey I prob would have done some more ground work (not lunge) until I fully had his attention & then go back to the mounting block.


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## ropinbiker (Aug 3, 2012)

I think it is ok to lunge the green horse for the first 10-20 rides...after that I would consider it a training deficiency if I "had" to lunge my horses before a ride. That said, if I get a feeling a horse isn't acting correctly, I will lunge them to ensure i have their respect and they aren't hurt.


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

Well, be lunge I dont think all of us mean to get them running and exercise them out. My lunge after awhile would consist of asking them to walk in both directions and see how she responds to my commands and whoa. It's just to gauge their mood, not exert extra energy.


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## palogal (May 30, 2008)

I lunge any horse before I ride it for 5 minutes or so to help them warm up. Not to the point of exhaustion or anything else, just to warm them up some before asking them to carry a rider. Especially young horses.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

There is something wrong with lunging in the traditional sense. Circle burning is not okay.

Groundwork, focus training IS okay though. Getting a horse's respect and attention. The training gap if you can't ride out your problems is lack of focus. Some horses are naturally hot headed and stronger, some are more laid back. You have to know your horse and find what works for you to get their mind working.


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## LisaG (Nov 11, 2012)

Despite the horse's age and prior cooperation, he's going to be green for a long while yet. You should certainly do groundwork before you ride him each time (we all have our routines, but your goal should be to make sure he's responding well to your cues, and also give yourself a chance to read him).

You might even find you do a lot more groundwork than riding during each session for a while, and that's okay.

Be prepared for more bucks in the future. He's green, he's turfed you once, and he's green. If you think he's going to buck, take his head away. If he gets one jump in, take his head away as soon as his feet hit the ground again and give him hell. If you find you can't stick to him, you'll be better off getting a different horse.

Your best strategy is always being able to read your horse and prepare yourself for whatever he's about to throw at you (or put a stop to it before he actually gets going).

Personally, I would find it very difficult to stick to a bucking horse in an English saddle. It's hard enough in a Western saddle.


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## LisaG (Nov 11, 2012)

And one more thing regarding groundwork - though you don't want to have to tire out a horse every time your ride it for the rest of that horse's life, fatigue is a really useful tool for a green horse! Not only does it make them easier to handle, but they learn to conserve their energy for actual work instead of jerking around. 

I've been riding a green mare through snow, and she's really learned to pace herself. A few months ago I was constantly shutting her down as she tried to break into a trot or lope without being cued to do so. Now I can ride her on a loose rein, and she's very well-behaved.

You don't want to work a horse to the point of injury, but fatigue can be your friend!

And I also agree that you should check your tack, etc...


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## shellybean (Dec 28, 2012)

Thanks for all of your help and advice everyone!

I have found a local trainer who is able to come out to my barn, but now I just have to check with my BO that it is okay with her that I am having someone come to the barn to help me. We are basically a family facility (non-show barn with no trainers, just a bunch of loving horse owners) so I don't know if they will be accepting of a trainer coming in...I do not own a trailer yet so I am not able to travel to the trainer, so hopefully this works out! Wish us luck!


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

Good luck!  It'll be fine!


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

It should be fine to bring a trainer in for your horse. Usually it is a problem when the trainer brings other horses or clients there, not just helping a boarder.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thenrie (Sep 10, 2012)

A lot of good advice for a variety of problems, some of which may apply in your case, some probably not.

My immediate impression, upon reading your opening post, was that something was bothering the horse. The indication is that he wasn't doing this on the previous rides. Just started on this ride. Something has changed. Find out what it is and fix it, before you try to get on.

My first thoughts were that maybe you had something caught in the cinch, or a piece of oats or something stuck in the saddle pad. Another problem I have seen that causes horses to get like this sometimes is over-tightening the cinch. This is particularly a problem with inexperienced riders, and interestingly, mainly with women. Now I'm talking about western style saddles. It seems many people don't understand how much of a strength-multiplying effect that two or three wraps of the latigo through the cinch ring gives a person. Overtighten the cinch on a green horse a few times and he will get "cinchy" and start to dislike being saddled and cinched-up.

After eliminating all those factors, I would go with Cherie's advice.


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## shellybean (Dec 28, 2012)

Just thought I'd update you all on his progress! 

I have had my trainer out 4 times in the past week and a half and his progress is incredible. She said his ground work is great and I did a good job training him so far which made me feel better. Since he had all of his basics down pat, she started long lining him to start working on his top line a little before riding and he caught on extremely fast...he acts like he has been doing this all of his life. He is very eager to please and is extremely smart and catches onto things very, very fast. 

Today he had his first ride since he threw me. I recently bought a barrel saddle and we rode in that instead of the english saddle I was riding him in before. Plus it is similar to what he was being ridden in at his previous home so maybe it felt more familiar to him. While my trainer walked him she kept him busy with circles and bending him both directions and when she wasn't keeping him busy thats when he would tense up...he didn't like just walking around without having to think. He also gets distracted/antsy by the gate of the arena because he thinks if he goes by the gate its time for him to leave, so we are working with him on that and we don't dismount by the gate...we're going to dismount in a different spot everyday and then we hand walk him a bit or lunge him for a circle or two and then we are done. Just so he doesn't think that right when we get off he gets to go to the gate and leave. We are going to switch things up every time so he keeps his mind off of the gate...thats the root of his problem. He wants to be back outside with the herd and he knows that the gate to the arena leads him back to his buddies. 

I hopped on for a couple minutes after my trainer and it felt so good to ride again. We did a few circles and bending and I hopped off and called it a day. I'm very proud of him, and happy with my trainer. I haven't had a lesson/ridden since right before I got him in December (minus the couple times I rode him prior to getting thrown) so I'm a bit rusty which doesn't really help him much either...We're going to continue our lessons and hopefully have our trainer out 3 days a week.


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## palogal (May 30, 2008)

Just caught up with this thread. Good for you, making the commitment to your horse. Where are the pics


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## shellybean (Dec 28, 2012)

Training was going so well and then he decided to turn into a bronc again...

We had a PERFECT ride on him and we go to ride him 2 days later (I wont ride him without my trainer there) and she went to get on and he took off bucking before she could get her other foot in the stirrup (I know...he won...he got her off). We lunged him hard after his bucking fit until his head was dropped almost touching the ground, then she got back on and just sat there for a minute and then got off and he didn't even flinch...he acted like nothing happened. 

We checked the saddle fit before we got on, nothings pinching...its making even contact throughout his back (the sweat pattern is even when we take the saddle off). He's not lame...hes perfectly sound...and he has no soreness in his back from what I can tell. I ran my fingers along his spine putting pressure and he didn't react to it at all, he seemed to enjoy it. The vet looked him over in December and gave him a perfect bill of health, and he has had his teeth floated in January so that isn't an issue. He's long lining very well, lunging perfectly, has all of his basic ground work down pat. He has a couple good rides and then he will act out like this, then have a good ride and then do this again...

We are going to take a step back and take things slow again. We are going to do long lining when she comes out (I don't want to hurt him attempting it all by myself...otherwise I would do it regularly) and work him until he's tired and then sit on him at the end of the lesson, hop off and call it a day. Also when I am working him alone I am going to lunge him as usual and switch things up everyday (raised trot poles, lots of changing directions ect, just to keep him focused) and practice having him stand still at the mounting block and me put weight into the stirrup (I spent a ton of time doing this before I ever rode him and he was great but now he isn't as reliable). I'm going to get a new bit as well, D-ring snaffle with copper rollers, which I'm hoping will help with his busy/anxious mind...he has a very soft mouth and I don't want to ruin it by switching to something harsh. I used this bit with a little arab/qh that had a busy mind and it did wonders for him...I really like this bit. 

Everyone's been a bit squirrely with it being spring and the weather warming up so that isn't helping much either...plus he's starting to show signs of becoming herd bound which I think is playing a huge role in this as well.

Wish us luck with the rest of our training...its gunna be a bumpy road but I'm not going to give up on him.


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## trainerunlimited (Jan 26, 2012)

I didn't read all the posts from other people, so may be repeating thoughts, lol. You are the one that got yourself dumped, not your horse. Do not EVER get on a green horse when they are already using signs to let you know they aren't wanting you on. Your horse was telling you strongly that he wasn't ready for you to get on. If he ever won't stand still, you need to move his feet until he decides standing still might be the best option for him. Also, with a super green colt like he is, do not change up what you've been doing with him, ie. Getting on without lunging.

When I broke horses for other people, I'd tack them up and let them hang tight on a pole or the walker, then work them until they were attentive(The most important part), then would go about making sure they weren't going to dump me or act silly, like flap the sturrips and pull on em, pat all over, make noise, jump up and down beside them, flex them, etc. Getting on a green colt cold turkey is just asking for trouble as you haven't warmed up their minds and gotten them ready to work with you. 

Everyone is right that you let him win 100% that night. Not working the sweat out of him and walking/lunging him UNTACKED did absolutely nothing. If the situation ever happens again, get those feet MOVING like you mean business, Immediately. Do not stop until he shows that he is ready to work with you, then do a couple groundwork exercises/desensitizing, do all the prep work to get on, THEN and only then, get on. I also never get on a colt the first few rides unless he is flexed towards me. As they progress, ill flex them less and less til they aren't flexed at all. 

Remember that as nice and cutesy as you think this colt is, he just proved he is more than capable of hurting you and will, if you don't immediately correct him now, before he gets much worse. 5 rides mean nothing on a colt if they weren't productive rides where he wasn't solely attentive, being respectful, and listening to you. Green riders on green horses tend to lead to trouble more often than not. If this is your first time breaking a colt, get a trainer to help you break him. You'll have a nice riding horse in no time =)


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## trainerunlimited (Jan 26, 2012)

Lol, oops, sorry! Didn't read til the end to see that you've already started fixing your problem =) Good luck!


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

You need a different trainer. The one you've got is no better at reading this horse than you are. When she got him worked enough to get him sweaty and hanging is head he needed a 2 hour ride -- hard ride. He needed loped for about 5 miles.

Get a trainer with the ability and guts to ride him on after a good hard warm-up. Backing off and taking more time is not going to do a thing for him. It is only going to cost you more money and you are still going to get bucked off any time he feels like it. 

Your 'trainer' should be getting on in a corner (his head in the corner or in a small 12 or 15 foot pen. She should be taking his head away from him and backing him up when she first gets on. She should have him 'limbered up' enough that he will give his head any time she runs her hand down a rein and asks for it. She should have a little 'over-check string' run from his bit, through his halter just behind his ears and hooked behind the saddle-horn with a double half hitch. Then, he at least can't get his head down. JMHO


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Is he kept in a stall and allowed to blow off excess energy prior to lunging or riding? This is the season that they feel frisky. Look at his diet. He doesn't need anything other than hay as he is considered an idle horse. Overfed horses need to blow the energy with a 15min turnout. Let him get his bucking done and over before you do anything with him.


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## shellybean (Dec 28, 2012)

Saddlebag said:


> Is he kept in a stall and allowed to blow off excess energy prior to lunging or riding? This is the season that they feel frisky. Look at his diet. He doesn't need anything other than hay as he is considered an idle horse. Overfed horses need to blow the energy with a 15min turnout. Let him get his bucking done and over before you do anything with him.


He is out in pasture from sun up til sun down and is only stalled at night, so he has plenty of time to burn off his energy. Right now he is fed oats and unlimited hay so I don't know if the oats are making him hot? He was apparently fed them at his previous home too and he was fine for my ride there...

He's just making me so discouraged...I'm losing all of my confidence and I feel like I am wasting all of my money on training and he is never going to willingly accept a rider, or he is going to turn into the same bratty horse (towards riding) when he gets back from training. The previous owner made it sound like he was a lot further along in training than he really was. "He is green broke and responds well to leg pressure and has a very soft mouth. He has been trail ridden around the property and ridden by [his] 9 year old son in the indoor arena". All of which seems spot on when I rode him at their property...he was a dream, very willing and eager to please. 

Some days I wish I had never bought him and want to find him a new home, but I'm scared he is going to end up with a meat buyer...and I can't give up on him like that. 

I spent forever looking for a horse and when I finally found him we instantly clicked and it felt like it was meant to be...a few months later he decides he doesn't want to be ridden and throws me...my friends randomly decide to get a horse and buy the first one they find and they all turn out wonderfully for them. They hop on for their first ride bareback with a halter and their horses don't care, if I were to do that with Apollo I'd be on the ground with a broken neck. I just wish I could join them on their fun trail rides and ride with them in the arena instead of have to sit on the fence and watch from a far. Its not fair...I put so much time and effort into looking for a horse and it took me a couple before I found one that I clicked with, and of course the one I clicked with happens to need the most work and money put into him. I love him though, I just wish things ran smoother...


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## shellybean (Dec 28, 2012)

He works SO much better outside...he is like a completely different horse. I was just doing groundwork since my trainer isn't coming out until tomorrow, and he was much more relaxed; hanging his head, being EXTREMELY quiet and attentive. He's giving me hope again...I was starting to give up on him because of his anxiety getting worse and worse (spring isn't helping either ). I'm going to change his food too and see if that helps some with his craziness. 

Usually it takes a while before I can even get him to stand by the mounting block, but I walked him up to it and he stood there quietly without trying to walk off every time I stepped on the block which was a big improvement. He even let me lay across the saddle and I even put a lot of weight in the stirrup and pretended to get on and while he wasn't thrilled about it, he was much calmer than he has been since he started this whole bucking thing. He was still a little tense about it though...he always anticipates things which is annoying, but with a little work with this daily I think he'll be good in no time  

I even had other boarders come out and comment on how well he was doing. They too noticed how calm and happy he is outside vs. the indoor arena.


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## equitate (Dec 14, 2012)

Horse do not do things to 'get out of work' or anything of the sort. They are either unschooled or in pain if they do not stand to be mounted; it may be the saddle placement, how you mount (no contact, grabbing, toes, etc etc) , pain somehow, or lack of progressive schooling. A teacher can help you understand what to do. If the horse has not been out, lungeing WITH controlled meaning will help the horse to understand what you want, and how to get it.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

> Horse do not do things to 'get out of work' or anything of the sort. They are either unschooled or in pain if they do not stand to be mounted;


I agree that horses do not do things because they want to 'get out of work'. But, you are dead wrong that they learn bad habits like 'not letting a person mount' ONLY because they are unschooled or in pain. One of the main reasons they do this is simply 'because they can'. The other big reason they do this is because people with good intentions get in their way and inadvertently 'cause' the bad behavior. This could be a person that inadvertently tightens the left rein every time they mount. Some, if not most horses, will learn to move their hip away as they are mounted. They are not unschooled or in pain. They are simply being taught the wrong thing. I can give you examples all day of people that think they are teaching a horse one thing while they are actually teaching them something else all together. 

I have retrained enough of them and watched more than enough horses as they 'learned' some of these bad behaviors to know that many spoiled horses and many more horses with really bad behavior habits do them simply because they have done them before and want to continue to keep on doing them. Some horses will 'fight tooth and nail' to keep doing these bad behaviors. Others, just need effective correction and they develop the good behaviors very quickly.

With some horses, it only takes one time of a person NOT quickly correcting them for an unwanted bad behavior and they try to continue doing it every time they are in that situation. Other 'saintly horses' (usually older and kinder by nature), are much more 'forgiving' and let people do things badly many times before they finally need a 'tune-up' and some serious correction. 

I have studied horse behavior for over 50 years and there is one thing that I take at face value without really 'knowing the reason' they do something. Horses like 'sameness'. So, when they are always handled competently and their handlers and riders never let them do anything wrong, they continue to behave that way unless there is a good reason for them not to. When they are allowed to go down-hill in their behavior, they try to continue doing things badly until they are given a really good reason to go back to doing them correctly. Some horses take a lot more severe correction than others. Some will go right back to the bad behavior when they get the tiniest opportunity and others stay 'honest' much easier. Some are inherently huge 'cheaters' while others are inherently much more 'forgiving and honest'. I am always looking for horses like the latter. They are the perfect horses for beginners. They are just hard to find.


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## equitate (Dec 14, 2012)

The horses which learn an incorrect behavior is allowed to by lack of proper schooling/the rider is 'teaching' what they allow. Schooling continues for the life of the horse, it is not as much 'because they can' as the rider's actions create an unwanted result (which is then blamed on the horse. Riders always create and allow behaviors, good ones or unwanted/incorrect ones. The trainer needs to create different results, so the trainers job is to replace a negative with a positive (yes) answer. Certainly it is much easier to create a proper reaction in the first place than replace a tension filled one (like the rider holding and not even knowing they are driving (with their seats). To tell most people to use a severe correction (when then do not even know what created the improper one in the first place) is often a problem. If a horse is walking off, mount facing the wall (visual barrier). And it goes back to mounting and dismounting as job one, before movement. And another question is what is asked AFTER mounting. Most of the time perfect horses are more a reflection of initial training and clarity of methods.


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## shellybean (Dec 28, 2012)

We had a great day today.

Apollo was very, very quiet today...I even needed to chase him to make him trot on a lunge line which was odd. He was even standing quietly to be saddled and didn't even flinch when I fastened his girth which was even more odd...he was just very relaxed and was the horse I remember meeting 3 months ago. I hand walked him around out on the grass, up and down the hills just bonding with him and he loved it. I've honestly never seen him this relaxed since I first brought him home...my friend came out and was riding her horse and convinced me to hop on Apollo. I got my helmet and hopped on (with her holding him) and sat for a couple seconds and he didn't even seem to notice...I hopped off and then back on with the same results. My friend hopped on twice as well and he was perfect  

I think I need to spend more time bonding with him. I usually just go out groom him, work him and then put him back out to pasture and try not to baby him. I love on him while I'm grooming him, but I think having a couple hours of just hanging out or walking around relaxing and bonding every week will be good for us. I just worried so much about spoiling him that I never really spent enough time bonding with him. 

I'm just over the moon happy. Tomorrow I'm going sit on him a couple times again and if he is doing well then I'm going to have my friend lead him around with me on him (I still don't trust him 100% and he killed my confidence when he threw me). I think it really helped having another horse with him too...I think the few times he was ridden at his previous home he was with another horse, so I think he felt more secure tonight with my friends horses there. Wish us luck tomorrow!


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Good job with him on that day. Just remember that the "bond" you have with him needs to be between a lead horse (you) and a subordinate horse, (Apollo). If you confidence is gone, he will get worse if you are too afraid to deal with him properly. Sometimes you have to fake it until you make it. Keep in mind what you have to do to fix it, and don't give in until you get the desired response...Then reward him. Even me and my dead broke money earning mare have these discussions often. He may just be that type of horse who needs a strong rider. If you think you can be that, all power in the world to you and I wish you the best of luck because he will get better very quickly with that attitude. If you don't think you can do that, I believe it would be best for both of you to find partners better suited to your abilities. Either way will make you very happy in the end.


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## shellybean (Dec 28, 2012)

SorrelHorse said:


> Good job with him on that day. Just remember that the "bond" you have with him needs to be between a lead horse (you) and a subordinate horse, (Apollo). If you confidence is gone, he will get worse if you are too afraid to deal with him properly. Sometimes you have to fake it until you make it. Keep in mind what you have to do to fix it, and don't give in until you get the desired response...Then reward him. Even me and my dead broke money earning mare have these discussions often. He may just be that type of horse who needs a strong rider. If you think you can be that, all power in the world to you and I wish you the best of luck because he will get better very quickly with that attitude. If you don't think you can do that, I believe it would be best for both of you to find partners better suited to your abilities. Either way will make you very happy in the end.


Thank you! I just need to get back into the swing of things and I will go back to my confident self...I already have more confidence on him after just sitting on him and him not caring, if he does that a couple more times I will feel confident enough to ride him by myself. I was one of those riders who would jump on the hottest or spookiest horse because I liked the challenge...I just wasn't expecting Apollo to take off and throw me because of how well he was doing the many rides before. If I knew he was a bucker I would have been more prepared and had my guard up, even though I knew I should ALWAYS have my guard up, I just wasn't expecting him to take off like that because he never had before...now I know the signs to look for, I know what calms him down and if I can get my seat before he takes off (he didn't let me before) I'm pretty confident I can sit through his bucks. 

He is just a fearful horse...he must have gotten hurt the time he initially threw me. Thinking back, I think I tightened his girth too much too fast, and a little to far back because of the way he was standing, and it just psyched him out and it felt funny to him or hurt because of the nerve there. Since then he has been cinchy and paws when I reach for the girth...but now I tighten it just enough so the saddle wont slip and then I tighten it a little more after we start working and it is helping a lot and he is slowly becoming less cinchy...he didn't even paw at all yesterday and I did and undid the girth at least 5 times. I think a few more times of sitting on him and he will be back to his old self, and before I know it I'll be going on long trail rides under saddle.


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## shellybean (Dec 28, 2012)

A photo from yesterday


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

I forgot to mention this. Actually thought it when first read this and posted but forgot it when posting.

The 4th or 5th ride is almost always when things will come unglued.

First couple of rides horse is not quite used to what is going on, sensory overload, if you will, that keeps them from trying many things.

After those first couple of rides?

Horse gets it in head to try things. Which is what happened here.

Old horsemen would tell you this, and they were so right.

I'm not a big fan of making a horse move when what I am after is it standing still either. I teach "be still" or command similar, and don't want horse to move then.

If one is being fool, for stupidities sake? I will use chain shank and move them back and then bring them up and tell them to stand there.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Keep in mind they see, smell and hear things we can't. This can account for unexplanable one time behaviour - it keeps them alive. Is he a medicine hat? That makes him a sacred horse.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

You're still making excuses for a horse with holes in his training. Why does anybody want to put up with "spooky bc of something I cannot see, but the horse can?" What _does_ he see, the ghost of his sire?
*Look, certain attitudes are acceptable as LONG as your horse is obedient.* When we reenacted, our commander would ALWAYS think of some message he had to send to a company commander right before the "show." He always sent ME to do it. So, me and "Corporal" (1982-2009, RIP) would have to wind our way through a moving body of spectators, find the person, deliver the message, and get back before the battle started. Corporal was obedient and we went at the walk. He never stepped on or ran into people, but he WAS herd sour. So, every 5 minutes or so he would call out to his friends. People walking in front of us didn't all notice a horse walking in their midst, so they'd flinch, then laugh when he'd whinny. For a 900lb, 15'1hh Arab, he had a loud and deep throated call.
THAT's what you want your horse to do. *Let him notice things, but not act out on them.*
This is the same horse who would race all over the field in the battle when asked, and then stand next to a cannon and graze. You train their minds and then you think and the horse "does."
You need help from a trainer who will also train YOU. You need to learn groundwork and horse body language. Circling the mounting block tells me that your horse doesn't want to be ridden. A smaller animal, like a dog, would have bitten you that day. =/


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## shellybean (Dec 28, 2012)

Well yesterday I rode the little stinker! 

I tacked him up and he stood in the same spot tied to the post the entire time...no pacing, pawing or backing up. His head was low and his foot was cocked and relaxed. He even took the bit the first time I asked and didn't have to stick my finger in his mouth to make him open up!

I sat on him a few times, with my friend holding a lead rope...he was doing so well I had my friend lead him around with me on his back! He couldn't have cared less...his head was hanging and relaxed, walking extremely slow and he would tilt his ears back every couple of seconds listening to me. After a few times around the arena she lunged us at a walk in a small circle and he was very good...this was with other horses in the arena which I think is helping him a lot too. 

I'm going to do this a few more times before I feel 100% confident on him again. I'm already gaining back my confidence every time I sit on him and actually having him walk around with me on my back has helped tremendously. I don't even hesitate when hopping onto his back anymore like I did a couple days ago...I can tell by the look in his eye and his stance if he is going to let me on him. 

I think the cut back in his feed has helped out a lot too...he's been SO lazy lately and I have to actually get after him to get him to canter, when before he'd be anticipating it the whole time. I'd spend the majority of our session getting him to relax and trot since all he wanted to do was canter. We've been working on his transitions and he is doing so well, walk-trot, trot-walk, trot-canter, canter-trot, trot-walk and just repeat it.


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## shellybean (Dec 28, 2012)

Tonight we rode together on our own without my friend leading us around! I just walked him around the rail and did a few circles on the inside for 5-10 minutes and hopped off. He tucks his head really nice and low once we get moving...is this just him having a super soft mouth? I'm using a d ring snaffle with copper rollers, but I might go back to the waterford so if he ever decides to take off bucking it'll be harder for him to take hold of the bit since it'll collapse...plus he likes playing with it and it keeps his mind busy. I'm barely making contact with his mouth and he tucks his head and is in full listening/work mode with his ears tilted back listening to me. I wish it showed in the photo...the video I have wont upload for some reason.

Please dont critique my riding...I haven't ridden much in the past few months I've had him since I have been working with him on the ground for the past 4 months. Plus I rode english the past 7 years and just decided to switch back to western again since jumping was too hard on my knees. And since I know he can be a bucker it'll be easier for me to sit them in a western saddle :lol:



Look how relaxed he is...I couldn't even get a picture like this before. If I took a few steps away he would start pacing and pawing and pinning his ears...now he's like "whatever okay..."


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

You two look good! Sounds like you have it figured out and under control now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## shellybean (Dec 28, 2012)

Thank you!

We had another amazing ride yesterday. I rode with two other horses in the arena and he did really well. He was a little confused with one passing us on the inside going the opposite direction but got over that quickly. He was very relaxed and we even did a little bit of trotting. I've been lunging him before I ride just to feel out his mood for the day and to get out a little bit of his extra energy if he has any. If I have to do anything more than cluck in order to get him to trot, I know he's going to be a quiet, lazy ride...lol.

He lets you know his mood the second you bring him out of the pasture...whether he is going to be an antsy brat or going to be calm at relaxed for the day. Lately he has been very calm and relaxed but on his antsy days I just do a lot of ground work with him rather than hop in the saddle and risk getting thrown by a frisky horse.


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