# Anyone with Iberian Warmbloods in Here?



## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

Not sure but definitely interested, as I am looking into Iberian horses (including WBs) for my future stock. 

Any idea how tall her parents are?
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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

An "Iberian WB" is not a true WB. Therefore it will not show WB characteristics because it is an AndalusianxTB. Depending on the size of the parents I wouldn't expect a large horse. I ride a PRE who is all of 15hh, but who carries his 5'6" rider well.
Also please be prepared for a hot, sensitive horse. Again because the horse is not a WB it is not going to show typical WB traits. Baroque horses in general are especially sensitive and you absolutely cannot make mistakes or lose your temper with them as one repetition of anything can teach them for life. They are not as forgiving a young horse as a WB. Older, broke and well trained baroque horses make excellent amateur mounts, however.

Good luck with your AndalusianxTB!

ETA its unlikely that the sire is truly 16.1hh as well, either that or he is not truly an Andalusian and is himself also a cross, what is the name of the sire? Andalusians are typically no larger than about 15.3hh.
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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

Oops, missed the height of parents in OP. 

Anebel - I am curious how you know this about baroque horses (their incredible sensitivity). Is it possibly just a trait you found in certain horses, or is this true across the whole spectrum? How do you know?

Also curious why an Andy/TB is not a warmblood. What is the definition of a warmblood, exactly? If people can cross Percherons with TBs and get warmbloods, what is the difference? Would an Andy/TB more appropriately be called a sporthorse? What is the reason?
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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Percheron TB is also not a Warmblood. A Warmblood is a specific breed type, not a fancy name for a cross. It's like arguing that labradoodle is a breed. If the mum is a lab and the dad is a poodle, it is not a purebred dog that is resulted. Same with horses. A cross is a cross, a warmblood is a warmblood. The two terms are not interchangeable.

It is known that these horses are ultra sensitive. It is a breed trait. It's partially really great when training them, however in the wrong hands they are easily ruined. A very willing to learn horse.
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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

Can you point me to where I can find info on the personality traits of these horses?

I would also argue that though a cross is a cross, it is still a breed - recognized or not, almost every horse is the result of a cross. Quarter Horses did not spring up out of the dirt - they are a now-recognized cross between TB, Arab, Spanish, etc. Yes, now they are "purebred," but a labradoodle bred to a labradoodle for 3 generations creates a "purebred labradoodle."

Now I will concede that a Perch/TB is not a purebred horse. However, I do not understand how it is not a warmblood. Hot + Cold = Warm?  Kidding, but I am serious about it being a warmblood - why wouldn't it be? Is there a definition I am missing? 

As for Iberian Warmbloods - what makes it not a warmblood?

I am genuinely curious and I hope you realize I mean all of these questions with sincere curiosity and not animosity. 

Sorry to hijack the thread :s
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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

A warmblood is a breed type.

You cannot cross an arab and a TB and call it a stock horse. Does it have cow sense? Can it perform reining or cutting maneuvers well and easily? Etc.. 
Or how about lets cross a QH and a welsh and then it can be a draft horse.

You see? It doesn't work like that. A Hanoverian is a warmblood, a Dutch warmblood is a warmblood, a Trakhener is a warmblood. They are all breeds which fall into the warmblood breed type category. Like how Percherons and Shires, etc are drafts, QHs and paints are stock horses, etc..

Just because something is given a name does not make it a breed or part of an entirely different breed type. You can breed a labradoodle to a labradoodle, it still does not make the dog a legitimate purebred dog. 

A Percheron is not a warmblood, a TB is not a warmblood, an Andalusian is not a warmblood. Crossing any or all of these horses will not produce a warmblood because none were warmbloods to start. 

And about the breed traits, it is just a known thing, I couldn't tell you where I found it in a book or anything. My coach has worked with many, I've worked with a few and just in general from observation of these horses worldwide they are a very sensitive, willing type. Google maybe?

ETA Also, when crossing anything with a TB generally the accepted practice is to add "Anglo" before the other breed. Ie - Anglo Arabian indicates a TBxArab. So a Percheron TB could be an Anglo Percheron, but not a WB, and this horse (in OP) would be an Anglo Andalusian. Iberian Warmblood would indicate that an Iberian horse (like a PRE or Lusitano) was crossed with a warmblood (like a Hanoverian). As well even crossing an Iberian horse is highly controversial. Most stallions caught "outbreeding" or "crossbreeding" are struck from the registry they belong to.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I'm confused with some of the info being given here.
The Iberian horse is classed as a warmblood and pre-dates the modern day warmbloods by many years - dating back to as far as 264BC. influenced by the Iberian blood
Even though we now dont recognise a cold blood x hot blood = warmblood the Iberian horses were actually a result of crossings with the oriental hot bloods (ancestors of the modern day arabian) and the heavier draft horses
The andalusian and the lusitano are 'parallel breeds and the Lusitano viewed as the purer of the two as it has less arabian blood hence the slightly more 'ram like' head
The modern day warmbloods such as the Hanoverian were all bred from the Iberian horses crossing them with heavy horses like the Percheron and Boulonnais and the lighter TB's to get a bigger but still powerful horse with elegance, speed and agility.
The lusitano is sensitive as far as being easily trained and responsive but should have a fairly docile disposition to deal with the demands of things like its use in bull fighting. 
Crossed with TB you may get a taller horse if the mare was 16.2 plus but no guarantee
I didnt notice where you were from but if you want to register your horse you could contact the American Warmblood Society and discuss with them


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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

I am wondering the same things as the above poster, as my research showed the same things ie Iberians = Warmbloods. Afterall, I would be so bold as to say a good majority of horses come from these Spanish/Iberian roots. There are TBas and Arabs yes, but what about the Andalusian and Lusitano that come from the Asian ancestry far enough back (unless I am totally wrong here), which all of the fancy Euro WBs also date back to in part, mostly through Spanish types. 

There is an Iberian Warmblood registry, which in my eyes makes it more legitimate than the "Pinto Horse Assoc" or "Blue Eyed Horse Assoc" as it promotes the actual breed. 

I am confused. Iberian horses have the WB type (stockier than today's leggy types like Holsteiners, Hanos, Traks, etc), but they possess the same type, general personality as far as I am aware, AND the exclusive stud books. ?
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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

I'm half German and no one goes around telling me that I'm a nazi.

Iberian horses do not posses the same traits or types as modern warmbloods, which is why there is clearly a warmblood type AND an iberian/baroque/spanish type.
Yes, of course 200, 500 years ago the breed types were different. However, in MODERN breeding there are warmbloods and iberians as two seperate breed groups.

Having worked with iberian, baroque and modern warmblood types I can say for sure they do not posses the same characteristics. Each requires a different training process and ride. Which down to the individual horse is also different, but in general far more sensitivity and care is needed with the iberian breed types.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> I'm half German and no one goes around telling me that I'm a nazi.
> 
> Iberian horses do not posses the same traits or types as modern warmbloods, which is why there is clearly a warmblood type AND an iberian/baroque/spanish type.
> Yes, of course 200, 500 years ago the breed types were different. However, in MODERN breeding there are warmbloods and iberians as two seperate breed groups.
> ...


 The Nazis were a political regime and Hitler was Austrian so not really something to go by as most germans of the time would not have considered themselves to be Nazis
The Iberian breeds we see as typically Lusitano and Andalusian are considered 'Ancient' by definition of how far back they date. The Lippizaner - also an Iberian breed is considered to be Historic as only dates back to the 16th century as does the Alter Real and the Frederiksborg. 
The Oldenburg has a lot of Friesan influence also has Iberian roots with a mix of many other breeds,The Holstein which was a mix of Iberian, Eastern & Neopolitan blood was a much bigger heavier animal than we see today and the Hanoverian (which was primarily a result of a crossing between a Holstein and TB) are defined as 'Historic' 
Many of what we call Warmbloods that also have Iberian blood in their foundation are still 'mongrels' as far as breeding goes and are defined as 'modern' - for eg The Danish, Dutch & Belgian - the Danish WB has its foundation in the Fredericksborg which is an Iberian horse
Basically the word 'warmblood doesnt refer to a breed at all but to a 'type' - the new german warmblood ponies are a mix of the warmblood horses and British ponies such as the show pony type & the welsh and connemara - still very much a cross breed but being called a warmblood
As for the Lusitano being sensitive - to imply high strung' - that would be seen as a breed fault from using bad stallions/mares and not as typical
Historically they were bred as war horses and prized for their ability to go places other horses wouldnt - Hannibal is said to have travelled with 12000 of them over the Pyrenees and the Alps, it was valued as a working stock horse and for bullfighting so having a calm trainable disposition was essential and the breed society has tried to keep them as true to type as possible. These were the horses that were brought to the Americas in the 16th century so are also the foundation stock of many US breeds
We had a lady who imported many of them from Portugal and kept them at livery with us in the UK - they were amongst the easiest horses to train and handle that I have ever dealt with. I also knew someone who 'rescued several Lusitano bull fighting horses and they were exactly the same


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

I think we are coming from the same opinion, jaydee, that a warmblood is a very specific type where as the PRE and Lusitano horses are a defined breed. Crossing either with anything does not make a part Iberian a warmblood, nor a part warmblood an Iberian. To call either type the other is incorrect.

About the "high strung" bit. I never said that they are high strung, but a very sensitive horse. Very easy to ruin because of their high sensitivity, sense of pride and how easy they will pick things up. However they do not know right from wrong. Teach them to fear the leg, or run from a whip, to rear with a bit, etc.. even inadvertently and that is what they will do for a long, long time. Teach them to come forward into a long stride from the leg, to create a partnership with the bit and contact, and to seek praise with relaxation and they will be the easiest horse you have sat on!


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Even more confusingly all equines are supposed to fit into one of the 3 groups - hot (the TB and the arabian), Cold -(the draft horses and some of the draft type ponies such as the Fell, Highland, Dales) and warmblood which in theory should be everything else - which is where the nonsense begins.
And since they all actually have the same temperature of blood (but will have different blood group types) the whole thing is really a complete farce
At the end of the day the horse is as good as it is for what you want to do with it and what you make of it


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Quarter Horses and Standardbreds are said to be in the warmblood group.

And basically a warmblood *was* a cross between a cold blood and hot blood but that was a very very long time ago, when people started realizing they could influence how a horse would look. 

But I don't know how you would determine if it is a Danish or Dutch.. ect warmblood. They would say they are a Dutch Warmblood but are actually a Hano/Holstein.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

RM, the Danish/Dutch/Oldenberg/Hanoverian etc warm bloods go by 'types' they are not necessarily 'breeds'. A Hanoverian by breeding (parents are registered Hanoverians) can be accepted into the Oldenberg stud book as a breeding animal and registered as Oldenberg even though it's parents were both registered in the Hanoverian stud book. 
It all goes by type. If that stallion has traits desired by Oldenberg, then it can be registered as such - after inspection. 
The same goes for mares. My 2 year old is a branded and registered Hanoverian. His sure was imported from Germany as a Hanoverian but he carries Oldenberg breeding. 
His dam is an Australian thoroughbred. She was inspected and approved by the Hanoverian stud book, as a foundation mare. 

True warm blood breeding is far more complicated than slapping your old thoroughbred mare with ovaries in the paddock with your friend's clydie stud and calling the resulting goal a warm blood.
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## mustbemonroe (Mar 3, 2011)

I didn't mean to cause so much controversy! 

Her sire is Soberbio RR and he was inscribed into the stud book in Spain, so I don't doubt that he is not crossed with anything.

I'm not trying to debate WB vs non WB (though I love reading the responses of the debate going on!), so I will leave that be. 

I will touch on the training aspect- she has been an absolut delight to work with. She is incredibly smart and willing. I have a 15 y/o OTTB who I have had for 9 years and she's always been way easier to work with than him. But, I have always been consistent with working her. I know someone who bred PRE's and Hispano-Arabe's and never worked with the babies and would turn them out once every few months and they were (understandably) out of control (though I don't see them as a good sample of the breed/cross) 

I've never seen Soberbio myself (the filly sort of fell into my lap once she was born) so I couldn't verify if he is 16.1 or not. The 2 men who I talked to about him are both short (and let's face it, not very horse savvy) so maybe he appeared bigger to them? I could contact the breeder, I suppose, to find out for sure.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

mustbemonroe said:


> I didn't mean to cause so much controversy!
> 
> Her sire is Soberbio RR and he was inscribed into the stud book in Spain, so I don't doubt that he is not crossed with anything.
> 
> ...


 Dont worry about controversy - its actually only debate and a learning curve in many ways. This is the internet - we dont have to have lunch with each other!!!!
As far as I can tell Soberbio is Andalusian and not Lusitano - they have the same foundation breeding but had more arab added to the mix to give a smaller prettier head. He is stated as being 16.2 but like many breeds that have for years been 15.2 average or were historically that height (such as the Irish Draft) I think demand for a taller horse has probably seen an increase in height in the breed - the same thing is now happening with arabians. As long as its not at the expense of quality or other characteristics I dont see a problem with it.
I hope you'll share some photos and your progress with us


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## BCtazzie (Jun 7, 2011)

Anebel is correct about them being sensitive and pick things up very quick. Also the trait that can lead to them being ruined, I have one mare who was mishandled at some point and now we're regaining trust and being able to handle her like a "normal" horse. 

Currently, I own 3 Andalusians. If the stallion is 16.1 then there is some thing else in there. The stallion my girls are in foal to is 15.3 on the knocker. I want to get a good, well breed TB mare to event on and to later breed, more height and hopefully my horse for higher levels.

my girls are 12, 11 and 7. one is having her second foal and the others, their first.


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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

Great info! So for the sake if argument/discussion, would a draft bred to anything produce a WB? If so, what?

Also, I am confused on the difference between an warmblood and a sporthorse. Perhaps draft/TBs are sporthorses, which is yet another type?

Thanks everyone! Glad to learn about the baroque horses when I can 
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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

My sister owned an andalucian stallion which I used to ride, compared to my Tb I would not describe him as sensitive or anything special, although he was stunning to look at.


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## sinodacevera (Sep 12, 2012)

Quick reply for now but will come back later for more. I am a Lusitano breeder and have also cross bred to other breeds. Every registry creates a "name" in order to create a market for what would otherwise just be a "grade" horse. The Lusitano is a hot blood and so is an Andalusian, although the Lusitano tends to be "hotter" than the Andy's. Crossing with a TB still creates a hotblood so it's just a name. Also, if ya'll are truly confused about the term "warmblood", google it and research history. A warmblood is a "mixed" breed, originating from mixing draft and hot. I could go on all day about attributes of Iberian horses and Iberian crosses but don't have time at the moment. Oh! Amost forgot the original question...Iberian horses do grow slowly. At 3 years old, they still have a lot of growing to do. Many don't stop growing until 9 years of age. First foal of a maiden mare might be smaller but if the parents are 15.3 to 16.1, the offspring should end up there too.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

RunSlideStop said:


> Great info! So for the sake if argument/discussion, would a draft bred to anything produce a WB? If so, what?
> 
> Also, I am confused on the difference between an warmblood and a sporthorse. Perhaps draft/TBs are sporthorses, which is yet another type?
> 
> ...


A draft bred to anything will always be a draft cross, and never be a warmblood.

A sporthorse is a horse registered with a fancy registry for horses unable to get registered in any other registry (and I know I'm going to get flamed for that). Sporthorse registries for the most part exist with a large membership only in NA. It means squat to me as IMO they will accept anything with 4 legs and a uterus into their studbook.

I agree again with BCTazzie that the measurement on the stally is wrong. 
I'm also doubting him being PRE. PRE is reserved for those with a PRE passport and to be a PRE stallion they must be in the studbook. I don't see a registration number for him being advertised anywhere, which is req'd to search pedigrees and offspring with the PRE. As well with the amount of outbreeding he is doing, he could not be registered as a PRE now anyways..
Looks like he has good Andalusian breeding though! Just not *technically* a PRE.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

sinodacevera said:


> Quick reply for now but will come back later for more. I am a Lusitano breeder and have also cross bred to other breeds. Every registry creates a "name" in order to create a market for what would otherwise just be a "grade" horse. The Lusitano is a hot blood and so is an Andalusian, although the Lusitano tends to be "hotter" than the Andy's. Crossing with a TB still creates a hotblood so it's just a name. Also, if ya'll are truly confused about the term "warmblood", google it and research history. A warmblood is a "mixed" breed, originating from mixing draft and hot. I could go on all day about attributes of Iberian horses and Iberian crosses but don't have time at the moment. Oh! Amost forgot the original question...Iberian horses do grow slowly. At 3 years old, they still have a lot of growing to do. Many don't stop growing until 9 years of age. First foal of a maiden mare might be smaller but if the parents are 15.3 to 16.1, the offspring should end up there too.


I've seen some research that calls the two breeds warmbloods as they were originally bred from a mix of draft horse and oriental and some that call them hot bloods - though one of these sites also called the welsh mountain pony a hot blood which is definitely not the case
It will be interesting to get another viewpoint and some opinions on the breed from someone actually breeding them
The new *Sport horse* prefix is just a label to attach to a set of mixed breed horses that dont really fit in anywhere else, it replaced the Hunter Improvement Society in the UK where most of our top show horses/ponies are mixed breed


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

THis is a link to the Sport horse Breeding society of GB.
There is a grading process for mares and stallions and there are warmbloods as well as TB and Irish Draft. However breeding a crappy mare to a top class stallion does not a wonderful horse make!!!
Home
Ireland has its own Sport horse register


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## mustbemonroe (Mar 3, 2011)

sinodacevera said:


> Quick reply for now but will come back later for more. I am a Lusitano breeder and have also cross bred to other breeds. Every registry creates a "name" in order to create a market for what would otherwise just be a "grade" horse. The Lusitano is a hot blood and so is an Andalusian, although the Lusitano tends to be "hotter" than the Andy's. Crossing with a TB still creates a hotblood so it's just a name. Also, if ya'll are truly confused about the term "warmblood", google it and research history. A warmblood is a "mixed" breed, originating from mixing draft and hot. I could go on all day about attributes of Iberian horses and Iberian crosses but don't have time at the moment. Oh! Amost forgot the original question...Iberian horses do grow slowly. At 3 years old, they still have a lot of growing to do. Many don't stop growing until 9 years of age. First foal of a maiden mare might be smaller but if the parents are 15.3 to 16.1, the offspring should end up there too.


Thanks for this! That's interesting about the first foal being smaller, but it would explain if she doesn't grow too much bigger  It's good to know that she may have some more growing to do! 

And just a response to the WB debate, I know they aren't really a warmblood. I was just referring to the name. People who know the breed better than I told me that they are slow growers, and I just needed some confirmation  All the baby Andys and Andy crosses seemed bigger than her at her age. I was never really into the Spanish horses until I got her, so I am trying to learn more about the breed specifics. Thanks all!


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## Shropshirerosie (Jan 24, 2012)

Ha! Great discussion about the definition of a Warmblood . I am not a breed expert, but I will add this to the discussion:

In the UK the term Warmblood is only ever used to refer to the breeds identified by Anabel, and no-one would ever think to refer to a TB crossed with a native or draft as 'warmblood'. 

When I arrived on this forum and in Canada I was initially very confused to see so many Warmbloods talked about that were patently NOT Warmbloods in the UK use of the word. Then it was explained to me that in much of North America the term Warmblood is used to describe a TB cross.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Shropshirerosie said:


> Ha! Great discussion about the definition of a Warmblood . I am not a breed expert, but I will add this to the discussion:
> 
> In the UK the term Warmblood is only ever used to refer to the breeds identified by Anabel, and no-one would ever think to refer to a TB crossed with a native or draft as 'warmblood'.
> 
> When I arrived on this forum and in Canada I was initially very confused to see so many Warmbloods talked about that were patently NOT Warmbloods in the UK use of the word. Then it was explained to me that in much of North America the term Warmblood is used to describe a TB cross.


I had the same confusion. In Australia, it's usually kids of clueless folk who try to tell people that their clydie cross is a warmblood. They get laughed off. 
It seems to be very much a North American 'thing' to call everything a warmblood if it's not a pure breed.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Kayty said:


> I had the same confusion. In Australia, it's usually kids of clueless folk who try to tell people that their clydie cross is a warmblood. They get laughed off.
> It seems to be very much a North American 'thing' to call everything a warmblood if it's not a pure breed.



This drives me batty! I have had people ask about Flirt's breeding and when I say he is Clydie x WB (holsteiner) they respond "oh, so he's a warmblood!" HALF WB people, HALF!


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## teamfire (May 27, 2011)

My horse is half warmblood (Oldenberg) and half andalusian! Can I call him an Iberian Warmblood since it's less of a mouthful lol?

His sire was a PRE Andalusian (sire, I have a copy of his papers, and various other things, so I can offically register my boy as being Half Andalusian with IALHA eventually), who was 16.1hh. So taller andys exist, just aren't the norm.


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## sinodacevera (Sep 12, 2012)

Okay, I'm back. Just to kinda "firm up" a basic understanding of the Lusitano/Andalusian, the Andalusian/Iberian horse breed registry split sixty or so years ago. Until that political event, all Iberian horses were "Andalusians". The PRE and the Lusitano are similar but after all these years, their usefulness has dictated how they were bred. (So they do have some true differences) That being said, competitive dressage is affecting how breeders have altered the two "breeds" in the last 10 years or so as they try to compete with dressage warmbloods. Some of the baroque attributes are being lost with that effort but credit needs to be given to the PRE and Lusitano "mother registries" for stictly maintaining stallion and mare approval standards. For a foal to be registered, both parents need to be "approved" at a minimum age of 3 yrs. Otherwise, a "purebred" foal is considered "grade". In the US, this standard has been largely ignored and anything and everything with a uterus and testes can be registered with the IALHA as long as you can pull a chunk of mane and get a dna sample registered. A "purebred" Andalusian/PRE/Lusitano is just going to breed "junk" if quality is not controlled by strict approval standards. (Similar to German warmblood approvals) So, "we/Americans" create all sorts of registries in order to work around the standards handed down through centuries of careful breeding. "Iberian Warmblood", "American Warmblood" (Draft crosses, usually), "Iberian Sporthorse", (fill in the blank Sporthorse). Even Friesians are now being registered and branded "American Warmblood", crossed with any breed to produce another "American Warmblood". Check out the approval requirements sometime...To finish, my Lusitanos are approved for breeding or they don't breed. The other part of the thread; temperament? Lusitanos are hotter than Andalusians (generally). They are smart, responsive, and don't tolerate gross motor skill deficiencies in humans. They are well suited for dressage and "sportscar' types of sports for that reason. Not a hop on bareback and head out into the woods kind of horse. Work on your riding skills and you'll find no finer horse to ride. A true thrill. If you don't ride well, don't get one. Nuff said...


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## mustbemonroe (Mar 3, 2011)

sinodacevera said:


> Okay, I'm back. Just to kinda "firm up" a basic understanding of the Lusitano/Andalusian, the Andalusian/Iberian horse breed registry split sixty or so years ago. Until that political event, all Iberian horses were "Andalusians". The PRE and the Lusitano are similar but after all these years, their usefulness has dictated how they were bred. (So they do have some true differences) That being said, competitive dressage is affecting how breeders have altered the two "breeds" in the last 10 years or so as they try to compete with dressage warmbloods. Some of the baroque attributes are being lost with that effort but credit needs to be given to the PRE and Lusitano "mother registries" for stictly maintaining stallion and mare approval standards. For a foal to be registered, both parents need to be "approved" at a minimum age of 3 yrs. Otherwise, a "purebred" foal is considered "grade". In the US, this standard has been largely ignored and anything and everything with a uterus and testes can be registered with the IALHA as long as you can pull a chunk of mane and get a dna sample registered. A "purebred" Andalusian/PRE/Lusitano is just going to breed "junk" if quality is not controlled by strict approval standards. (Similar to German warmblood approvals) So, "we/Americans" create all sorts of registries in order to work around the standards handed down through centuries of careful breeding. "Iberian Warmblood", "American Warmblood" (Draft crosses, usually), "Iberian Sporthorse", (fill in the blank Sporthorse). Even Friesians are now being registered and branded "American Warmblood", crossed with any breed to produce another "American Warmblood". Check out the approval requirements sometime...To finish, my Lusitanos are approved for breeding or they don't breed. The other part of the thread; temperament? Lusitanos are hotter than Andalusians (generally). They are smart, responsive, and don't tolerate gross motor skill deficiencies in humans. They are well suited for dressage and "sportscar' types of sports for that reason. Not a hop on bareback and head out into the woods kind of horse. Work on your riding skills and you'll find no finer horse to ride. A true thrill. If you don't ride well, don't get one. Nuff said...


Thank you! All of this fascinates me! It intrigues me so much that I'm going to ask you a few more questions  How does the PRE/Lusitano breeders (who actually care about preserving the breed) feel about the cross breeding? How about the breeding of non-PRE Andys? 

Even though I have a cross, I am not a fan of cross breeding and slapping a new "fancy" label on it to sell it. The horses are mass produced with very little quality control all in the name of money. I wish breeders would have stricter guidelines when it came to what their stud covers. But, I guess it's all in the name of the game...I mean, people pay out the wazzoo for Mini Australian Golden Doodles now, don't they?


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## mustbemonroe (Mar 3, 2011)

Oh, and I am a decent rider...I've ridden babies for my trainer, and re-trained my OTTB. I just want to get the basics done myself and then I'll send her away to be professionally trained. Probably a dressage trainer since I probably won't be keeping her due to her size


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## sinodacevera (Sep 12, 2012)

mustbemonroe, Lusitanos and PRE's are quite expensive, especially if you want one that has some decent training. Therefore, people cross to be able to afford "something close to Iberian". Cross breeding should be done carefully and the mare is extremely important as physical type should be similar. If the type isn't similar, conformation will suffer, then temperament will also suffer when the "strangely conformed" horse is asked to perform in a manner that it's structure won't allow. That being said, a mare with an excellent temperament and good conformation should be a good match and the outcome can be delightful. My Lusitanos are imported and I have compromised much of the "important" aspects of living in order to afford them so I do try to preserve the quality I hold dearly. And, I try to be practical with my horses in order to keep costs down, hopefully to be able to supply a quality pure Lusitano that will be affordable to "someone"?  And, you do sound like you are surely a good partner to your growing prodigy! Congratulations and enjoy!!!


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## mustbemonroe (Mar 3, 2011)

sinodacevera said:


> mustbemonroe, Lusitanos and PRE's are quite expensive, especially if you want one that has some decent training. Therefore, people cross to be able to afford "something close to Iberian". Cross breeding should be done carefully and the mare is extremely important as physical type should be similar. If the type isn't similar, conformation will suffer, then temperament will also suffer when the "strangely conformed" horse is asked to perform in a manner that it's structure won't allow. That being said, a mare with an excellent temperament and good conformation should be a good match and the outcome can be delightful. My Lusitanos are imported and I have compromised much of the "important" aspects of living in order to afford them so I do try to preserve the quality I hold dearly. And, I try to be practical with my horses in order to keep costs down, hopefully to be able to supply a quality pure Lusitano that will be affordable to "someone"?  And, you do sound like you are surely a good partner to your growing prodigy! Congratulations and enjoy!!!



Thanks!

I agree, the purpose of breeding should be to make a superior animal...but unfortunately, people (like the guy who bred the filly I have) just have a mare sitting there and want a baby. It was halfway through the mare's pregnancy he decided he didn't really want a baby, and that's how I get her. 

I just hate seeing (out here, anyways) that the crosses are becoming more prevalent than PREs or pure Lusitanos. Yes, they are more affordable, but it also seems like it will drive down the value of a truly well bred pure bred animal.


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## jumanji321 (Dec 1, 2010)

Shropshirerosie said:


> Ha! Great discussion about the definition of a Warmblood . I am not a breed expert, but I will add this to the discussion:
> 
> In the UK the term Warmblood is only ever used to refer to the breeds identified by Anabel, and no-one would ever think to refer to a TB crossed with a native or draft as 'warmblood'.
> 
> When I arrived on this forum and in Canada I was initially very confused to see so many Warmbloods talked about that were patently NOT Warmbloods in the UK use of the word. Then it was explained to me that in much of North America the term Warmblood is used to describe a TB cross.


Around where I live, as I'm not that far from Spruce Meadows, a TB crossed with a draft is known as a poor man's warmblood. Only those who truly don't know the difference call them warmbloods.


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