# Not a critique, but a question



## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

So my best friend has this little 2yo Arab/paint/QH filly that has a really weird thing going on with her neck. I'm hoping someone can explain what it is. I don't have pics, or permission to post them, so I will describe it as best I can.

The filly is very mildly ewe-necked and has a very upright neck. On the top side of her neck, directly in front of her withers, is a dip that is about 2" deep and 3" wide. Her neck tapers down into the dip, then her withers pop up behind it.

Just some background. My friend has owned the filly since November 2013. Before that, she was her ex-boyfriend's horse. He bought her around February or March of 2013. She was sold to him as a 6yo dead-broke horse. He, not knowing better and having been raised to cowboy any horse he got on, slapped a huge roping saddle and a big ol' long-shanked curb on her. She was barely 14hh at the time. Then my best friend started working with her and was frustrated because she would constantly spooking, bolting and bucking. So when her ex gave the filly to my best friend, she wanted me to come out and take a look at her. We started looking at her teeth and really looking at her and there was absolutely no way that she was older than 2. You could still feel the nubby of her umbilical cord, for heaven's sake. Anyway, she has since been left to be a baby for the time being.

So, what could have caused the dip in her neck? Just a conformation thing or maybe an injury or...?
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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

The only times I've seen a dip like that the horses in question had front feet problems. once they were corrected the dip filled in. I've also had a farrier tell me that's what that means. Though I believe some horses will also have a dip depending on conformation, one that is generally very pronounced is because of feet issues. I believe a horse traveling constantly hollowed can cause it as well, since they aren't properly using their neck muscles. I believe this ties in with the feet issues since a horse in pain in it's feet will most likely not be traveling correctly.

ETA I believe a true ewe necked horse will always have a dip in front of the withers.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

I will say that whatever farrier the ex-boyfriend used was a complete idiot. She is shod all the way around (absolutely no need to be, as she has rock-hard feet) and her front feet at ridiculously long and upright. She's not clubbed, but the way she is trimmed and shod makes her look horribly stacked and makes her front pasterns more upright than I think they naturally would be. In a few weeks (once I get my first check after going full-time this next week), I'm going to have my farrier come out, pull her shoes, and give her a trim.
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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I would say it's due to being ridden in a hollowed manner, dropping the lower neck, yet having the head pulled back toward the rider . so, the natural "S" shape of the neck becomes over emphasized. as the neck drops where it comes out of the body, the dip is created, and the head comeing backward makes the dip even more evident. hold it like that for awhile and muscles build in the wrong place and atrophy in other places.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

That makes a lot of sense, tiny. 

I looked at pics of ewe-necked horses on Google and, while she is most definitely ewe-necked, the dip before her withers is more prominent than most of the horses pictured.

Do you think that once she is started back under saddle, if ridden on a long rein, her neck will ever muscle correctly? She does have a very upright carriage to get neck and head naturally, but maybe long, low work would benefit her?
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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

couldn't hurt.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

It can also been a sign of insulin resistance...but since this horse is young and she has an ewe neck, we can probably rule IR out. haha


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## amigoboy (Feb 14, 2014)

So what you are saying is the horse was riden in as a yearling?
If so God knows what damage has been done.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

amigoboy said:


> So what you are saying is the horse was riden in as a yearling?
> If so God knows what damage has been done.


As a long yearling, yes. Not that that makes it any better. Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of educated horse people in my area (mention different types of bits or saddle fit and get ready for a lot of completely blank expressions). So, when someone says that a horse is a certain age, most people just go along with it. Heck, half the people I talk to about my horse will ask what kind he is and then give me a completely blank look when I say he's a draft cross or a Percheron/paint cross. This is inevitably followed by the question "What's a draft?" or "What's a Percheron?"

When I first met my best friend, she had no clue about saddle fit and how it affects a horse's performance and muscles, and thought that the ridiculous gag bit with the 10" shanks and twisted wire single-jointed mouthpiece was a "fairly mild bit" because the mouthpiece was broken. 

I'm not defending anyone in this situation, mind you. Just that if you lived where I do, it unfortunately wouldn't be all that surprising.
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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

Im in phoenix and had NO idea that's how people in Chino Valley are! And there is a huge equine program and the collage there (was thinking of going there myself)!!! That is painful to say the least. My bf may act like a rough cowboy, but he is gentle with horses (though he loves when they buck -_-'). And he is the first to yell at someone for riding a baby! UGH people make my head hurt...


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

KigerQueen said:


> Im in phoenix and had NO idea that's how people in Chino Valley are! And there is a huge equine program and the collage there (was thinking of going there myself)!!! That is painful to say the least. My bf may act like a rough cowboy, but he is gentle with horses (though he loves when they buck -_-'). And he is the first to yell at someone for riding a baby! UGH people make my head hurt...


There are basically three kinds of horse people up here.
1) You've got your people who know what they're about and know how to handle their horses, how to fix problems, and that not all problems are solved with a bigger bit.
2) You've got your ranchers who know how to ride, but will still cowboy up on a horse if they think it will solve whatever problem they're having (meaning using bigger spurs, bigger bits, harsh treatment, etc).
3) Then you've got your people who have no business being around horses, much less owning them, who can barely put a saddle and bridle on their horse correctly.

The first time I asked someone to do a trial on a saddle to see if it would fit my horse, they looked at me like I was daft and said "It's a saddle. It will fit your horse."

A girl I work with has an older (21yo, I think) dead-broke paint mare. She rides in a saddle that's about three sizes too small for her and has no clue at all what kind of bit her mare goes in ("It's got a straight bar with a hump in the middle and long pieces that hang down that the reins attach to"...that was her answer to me when I asked what kind of bit her mare used). She offered me a bit that she said was too big for her mare that she thought would fit Aires. When she brought it in, it turned out to be a long-shanked cathedral ported bit. 
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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

There is a condition (could only find this photo which is of a poorly conformed neck and then I drew on it) called "hatchet neck." It is created by the nuchal ligament that runs along the crest of the neck being damaged (i believe rupture is the correct term). Most often this damage is caused by tying the horse up and the horse having a wreck pulling back. 

This photo is of a horse that just has bad conformation. 

Another thing to keep in mind.. if a horse is morbidly thin the muscles along the top line of the neck can be so atrophied as to appear hatchet necked as the spinal processes of the withers protrude while the musculature wastes away.

Hatchet neck injuries were more common when horses were used for transportation and spent their time off in standing stalls where they were tied.. and could become cast.

A true hatchet neck is a very noticeable feature. The dip in front of the withers is very pronounced.. like someone hit the horse's neck with a hatchet.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Elana, that neck is how the filly's neck looks. She is not thin in the slightest (and hasn't been in the time I've known her). She does have a thin, under-muscled neck and when she runs around in turnout, she's got her head jacked up in the air.
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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Then she may well have the injury and have a true Hatchet neck. Cannot tell without a photo (just her neck and withers would confirm it).

The horse in this photo is simply Ewe necked.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Elana said:


> Then she may well have the injury and have a true Hatchet neck. Cannot tell without a photo (just her neck and withers would confirm it).
> 
> The horse in this photo is simply Ewe necked.


I have one ok pic that shows her neck. I can PM it to you.
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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Saw the photo. Nothing wrong with this filly. Just has prminant withers. The rest if her is darn nice too!!


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

I guess I'm just used to my mutton-withered draft cross. I've seen some shark-fin withers before (a couple of Arabs I've known), but not with the seeming dip before the withers.

This little girl has some speed and agility on her, that's for sure. She is faster than and can out-maneuver my friend's 10yo Scottish Bart mare who is quick and cowy as heck. Touie (the filly) has a great mind on her, too. She takes a little to warm up to you (probably from being cowboyed so early), but once she does, she's like a puppy dog.
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