# Alternative ways to us the Pessoa System



## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I'm afraid I do not have much good to say about this whole 'system'. It is feebly trying to produce what a rider should get by using their legs and their hands properly. A horse should be 'driven / ridden up into the bridle with the riders legs.

Years ago one used to see reining trainers with 'hock hobbles' on their horses. Now, they all know that the only way to get a horse up into the bridle is with their legs.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I agree with Cherie _but_ there are times when 'systems' can help a horse to learn how to use themselves correctly.

I have a horse here that was ridden a lot in draw reins before I had him in my care. he gave the impression of being on the bridle but, he was anything but. He found it almost impossible to stretch down and out. 
I ised the Pessoa with him and it helped a great deal, the breeching encouraged him to keep his hocks under him and the way for him to get away from the pressure was to lower his head and work from behind. 
Once this was established and he understood, it transferred to the saddle. 

I had tried everything to get this horse to go long and low from the saddle but his head was fixed in one place thanks to draw reins. 

As for the question of would this work on the noseband then my answer would be 'No' The pressure goes away when the horse lowers his head and works from behind. On a noseband he can and will just accept that he can lean into the pressure.

I will add that just because we have had that dreaded white stuff, commonly known as snow, I have been unable to ride the horses out because of ice on the roads so, they have all been lunged daily. I got more work into them by using the Pessoa on the ridden horses than if they had just been lunged with side reins. They have to work harder.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I'm, glad to know that there is actually a good use for them. I have just always looked at them as a 'gimmick' that people tried to replace good hands and legs with. I, too have fought with horses that have been worked on draw reins and German martingales by people that did not know how to use their legs or how to make a horse use himself.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

That is on interesting about face there Cherie, "from nothing good to say", to "Glad there is a use for them" Just wondering if you have ever used the system yourself?

I haven't but I'm seriously considering investing, because the more research I'm doing I'm hearing more good things about this type of system. A lot of people have been recommended them for horses recovering from injury or time off because it is not a gadget to try and force a headset, but more to encourage the horse to work from back to front, and by that improve the muscle tone along the back and neck.

I am just about convinced, but still scared by the price:shock:

OP, I don't know if it would work on a nose band, but the idea isn't to put pressure on the horses mouth with this device, it is to try and teach self carriage, so they are very softly on the bit, not leaning into it, and not behind. If it prevented loose rein work afterwards it would not be as popular as it is I think.

Again, merely opinions from research I have done so far, I have never actually used one yet.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

Nope. One look at them and all I could see is hock hobbles on a reining horse about 20 years ago when all the trainers had them. That was before they figured out how to 'ride' a horse up into the bridle. I also saw one have a kicking, fighting come-apart in hock hobbles and if he did not completely ruin his mouth, I'll bet it took a long time for him to heal his bloody torn up mouth. 

I can picture a horse blowing up in one of these things. I'm not going out an buying one by the way. But, I will believe a good horseperson that says they are effective to help fix a legitimate problem. I would like to see before and after videos of them and the difference they made. I know it can be a real problem to get a horse back right that someone has taught to get behind the bit and drag their butt behind them.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Really all you need to do is drive the horse up under itself with a lunge whip and save your self the money.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I have just looked at hock hobbles and the Pessoa is very different! 
The breeching strap is no different to having a second line across the hocks or, a breeching strap on a driving horse.

I generally do not like 'quick fixes' but there are times when they can be of help.

churumbeque - When you have a horse that is set with its head, drags itself along driving it up with the whip is not going to make it use itself correctly, all it is going to do is go faster and just as hollow. 

The problem with many of these products is when they are misused by tightening them to much and over use.


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

Tie a lead rope in a circle and attach it to the pommel of the saddle, then allow it to drop down just above the horse's hocks... making sure that it does not droop too low. Voila! Haunch-engaging strap thing for free! You could even add side reins for the more complete effect.

I use this trick mainly as desentization to the feeling of ropes and things on or near the legs... but it sure will encourage them to tuck that bum. At least until they get used to the sensation and stop worrying about it.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Foxhunter said:


> The problem with many of these products is when they are misused by tightening them to much and over use.


This!!

There are a lot of useful aids out there, but only when they are used as designed that is to ENCOURAGE of horse to find a new way of going. The issue comes in when people ratchet things up to the tightest and FORCE the horse.

It really is no different to riding, some people softly encourage and engage, some people have fixed hands and force.

I have always been against so called artificial aids, but since I have been working with the odd balls and rejects I have here I am now firmly in favor of anything that helps me to let them find new ways of going, correctly fitted and used set ups like this provide a more constant feel to a horse than this poor rider. If I were more skilled maybe I would feel differently.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

The things I have with hock hobbles and the Pessoa system, which IS similar...is that it doesn't take into consideration the conformation of the horse. Many horses have a conformation that makes it hard for them NOT to have their hocks trailing out behind them. The purpose of hock hobbles and a system like this one, is to change a trailing hock. So it's a mechanical means to do that and the horse is better served to be RIDDEN to get better use of hock, than to force a better use of hock with no deference to the phsyical ability for the horse to do so. I've seen more horses ruined physically with systems like this and hock hobbles.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

I love the passoa system and have used it to great effect on a young horse wgho needed to learn not to panic in the transition to canter and to balance himself properly. It enabled us to hang on to him when he paniced

this is him relaxing in the passoa













This is him panicing (so you can see why we couldnt hold him






Not everlyone has the skill to use double longreins and the passoa takes away the error from it. 
The Passoa does not Force anything, it encourages but if the horse wants to trail along with its hocks out then it can

Hock hobbles have no give in them, thus you are essentialy tieing the mouth down and to the back legs and the horse gets hit in the mouth hard every time the hock goea back.

The aim of the passoa is not to force the head down at all, the triangluar nature of the passoa prevents the horse being hit in the mouth (if used correctly) and a horse can easily and safely move its head up and down and stretch into a contact.

I've met top dressage trainers who love passoas for young horses 

To answer the OP no it wouldnt work on a noseband as it is designed to engage the hocks and encourage a horse to stretch into a contact without getting socked in the mouth you cannot strtch into a contact unless you have one in the first place and you cant have one in a halter


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

But, I see no difference in the movement and mind set of the horse in the vids. He looks the same in all of them. The horse is not relaxed in any of the vids....legs churning, lots of up/down movement, no relaxation and softeness....sorry.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Really? I can see a world of difference between vid 3 and 2. In number 2 you can clearly see him rounding and softening and starting to stretch down into the contact.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

I would question your eyesight then. in the last video, his back is hollow, his head is up, he is panicing, not balanced and running through, yes lots of choppy movement.

In the 2nd video in perticular (40132) he is soft, round, stretching down into the contact and is thinking clearly. Deffinatly not panicing by any stretch of the imagination. the movement is not choppy at all.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Golden horse, you'd be interested to know there was only 10 mins between video 3 (which chronologically happend first) and video 2


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

faye said:


> Golden horse, you'd be interested to know there was only 10 mins between video 3 (which chronologically happend first) and video 2


That is awesome, I can see the improvement, very impressed in such a short time frame. Is this taken during his comeback?


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

yep, this was his first session with the passoa, this is when we started makeing massive leaps forwards.

Weve taken a step backwards due to the weather (the school has been out of action for 2 weeks now) but we wont be long in getting back to where we were.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

faye said:


> I would question your eyesight then. in the last video, his back is hollow, his head is up, he is panicing, not balanced and running through, yes lots of choppy movement.
> 
> In the 2nd video in perticular (40132) he is soft, round, stretching down into the contact and is thinking clearly. Deffinatly not panicing by any stretch of the imagination. the movement is not choppy at all.


You don't have to question my eyesight...I see just fine. Yes, I see a behavior from him in the second vid....of course, who would not see him spook and scoot forward. BUT HIS MOVEMENT still remains the same in both vids! That can be seen plain as day. Choppy and quicky legged in BOTH vids....no sense of relaxation, restriction in the shoulder, no true engagement, lot of activity but no substance behind it.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

GotaDun, you are obviously watching something completly different from the rest of us. He is very obviously relaxed in the 2nd video, restriction in the shoulder? where? no engagement? he has a very good level of engagement for a horse who is only just being broken there is no engagement in the 3rd video at all. I look at the 2nd video from a dressage point of view and see a vast improvement.

Sorry but if you think the quater horse shuffle is appropriate movement then you will be sadly disappointed by a nice warmblood moving properly for his type


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

WHile he doesn't have the greatest flowing stride, he has far more swing in video 2, he is no longer scooting and being hollow backed, he is actually relaxing and coming down. Now given that is only 10 mins between the videos, I think is impressive.

It looks like that is still set on a loose setting? Certainly has helped him work out that transitions wont hurt and he can start to use himself properly. Even more likely to try one now. 

Faye, did you consider the Equi Ami or did you go straight for the Pessoa?


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

went straight for the passoa because neither I nor my instructor have any experiance of the Equi ami. 

One thing I would say with the passoa is the first time you put it on do not attach the front untill after you have dropped the breeching strap. Some horses do not react well the first time it is put in place.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

faye said:


> .
> 
> One thing I would say with the passoa is the first time you put it on do not attach the front untill after you have dropped the breeching strap. Some horses do not react well the first time it is put in place.


:rofl: I can imagine, Wills was horrified when I first double lined her it was quite impressive for a minute or two, a good reminder to be careful with new items of kit!


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

First time I double lunged Reeco he bolted head first into a wall.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Foxhunter said:


> I have just looked at hock hobbles and the Pessoa is very different!
> The breeching strap is no different to having a second line across the hocks or, a breeching strap on a driving horse.
> 
> I generally do not like 'quick fixes' but there are times when they can be of help.
> ...


I only know from my personal experience. My horse that pulled itself around benifited from being driven up from behind and did not hollow out. You have to train them not to go faster but reach further.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

faye said:


> I love the passoa system and have used it to great effect on a young horse wgho needed to learn not to panic in the transition to canter and to balance himself properly. It enabled us to hang on to him when he paniced
> 
> this is him relaxing in the passoa
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiZmM6PM_gU
> ...


 Just wondering if you are saying this was being used correctly? It was hard to see everything because of the person moving so much taking the video. But I think more prep could be done so the horse didn't panic and when he put his head up to get away it didn't look like he could. Also his head was tipped to the outside instead of bent to the inside.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

The horse paniced on the transition to canter wether it was in long reins, on the lunge or in the passoa. It started initialy as him reacting to remembered pain (he is just coming back from a fractured pelvis) then he figured actualy doing this gets me out of work.
Up untill I put him in the passoa him bolting like that would happen 2 to 4 times a lesson. Now he doesnt do it at all. In the passoa he ended up pulling against himself which ment that we could habg onto him and make him work.


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## BearPony (Jan 9, 2013)

I am no inherently against the pessoa (while I've never used one myself, I've seen friends use it with success), but I really don't equate it to long lining/double lunging. I prefer that method myself as it gives you control over exactly how much pressure is being applied to the bit and, most importantly you can release the pressure immediately should the horse start to become too backed off or scared.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

faye said:


> GotaDun, you are obviously watching something completly different from the rest of us. He is very obviously relaxed in the 2nd video, restriction in the shoulder? where? no engagement? he has a very good level of engagement for a horse who is only just being broken there is no engagement in the 3rd video at all. I look at the 2nd video from a dressage point of view and see a vast improvement.
> 
> Sorry but if you think the quater horse shuffle is appropriate movement then you will be sadly disappointed by a nice warmblood moving properly for his type


I knew you were going to throw the QH comment in there. What I see has nothing to do with QH's or any breed or style for that matter.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

GotaDunQH said:


> I knew you were going to throw the QH comment in there. What I see has nothing to do with QH's or any breed or style for that matter.


I thought the quarter horse shuffle comment was very immature and I message Terry and uneccassary


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

churumbeque said:


> I thought the quarter horse shuffle comment was very immature and I message Terry and uneccassary


Auto correct. Meant to say very uneccessary.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

I got a closer look at the system in a magazine. I felt the horse looked constricted in it's neck. I also didn't like how each side was not independant and that it used 1 line. With watching the video's in this post and getting a closer look it doesn't seem to let the horse bend towards the circle but keeps them straight, which is fine going straight but not lunging.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

GotaDunQH said:


> I knew you were going to throw the QH comment in there. What I see has nothing to do with QH's or any breed or style for that matter.


I think Faye is wondering why you can't see the difference in his way of going between the two videos, both she and I can, with our English background, it is reasonable maybe to think that s the difference?


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

There is a start of improvement between 1 & 2. The horse is beginning to soften and swing.

My point would be that Faye needs to learn how to get a metronome working in her head so that she is getting a steady pace. To me the horse is hassled and although a good working trot is wanted, this horse is being hurried out of a natural rhythm. Slower would give him a chance to lower and be looser through the back. 

You would also have a lot more control if you used a lunge cavesson so that you are leading from the front of the nose and not from wherever you are lungeing from. I suspect it was from the bit which is not good.

Finally, when he gets into a running panic run him into the fence so that you block him as he heads straight to it. means you have to move fast but it works!


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Cherumbic, what ever you were looking at wasnt a passoa then. the horse can bend properly through the circle as there is equal pressure on each side (unless you have ajusted it incorrectly) 
You want equal pressure on the mouth because you should not use a bit to create bend bend should come from your leg!



Foxhunter said:


> You would also have a lot more control if you used a lunge cavesson so that you are leading from the front of the nose and not from wherever you are lungeing from. I suspect it was from the bit which is not good.
> 
> Finally, when he gets into a running panic run him into the fence so that you block him as he heads straight to it. means you have to move fast but it works!


With this horse you would have far less control in a cavesson. Lunging from the bit gives you far better finess in signaling the horse, cavessons are fine for a normal horse but not for problem horses. I have always lunged from the bit and most top trainers I know lunge from the bit as well.

We have tried running him into the fence, he went through the fence doing damage to himself and the fence! This horse is a horse many proffessionals concider rank and have told me to have shot.

He bolted because he had known nothing but pain whilst being worked. He is a true rescue case who has been so badly abused that he had a fractured pelvis, he was not castrated by a vet and he paniced and ran blind with any form of line anywhere near him.

So please stop trying to tell me how to work with this horse when believe me we have tried everything with him and this is what works. I have had TOP trainers working with this horse, we started with a top producer who told me to have him shot, we then went to a NH person who wafted a stick at him and backed off when he flipped out, then I took him to melanie watson she is the best in the UK for problem horses and does not come cheap she got him ridden and hacking out but always said he had a problem, weve had him investigated by vets spent over £5k in vets fees alone, found the fractured pelvis and both my vet and melanie suggested a passoa when we brought him back into work. I currently have a rideable pony who has stopped bolting, is beautifully balanced when I'm riding him and is very happy to stretch into a contact. 

The passoa works


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

faye said:


> Cherumbic, what ever you were looking at wasnt a passoa then. the horse can bend properly through the circle as there is equal pressure on each side (unless you have ajusted it incorrectly)
> You want equal pressure on the mouth because you should not use a bit to create bend bend should come from your leg!
> 
> 
> ...


I am 100 percent sure it is that system and if you look at the videos that you posted your horses not bending it is going straight . for the horse's head and neck to bend to the inside rain needs to be shorter than the outside that is why that system does not work properly . horse cannot bend its front half if its head is not allowed to do so


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

and with better quality video I'm sure you could see that of course is not stepping torches midline in that video .


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

churumbeque said:


> horse cannot bend its front half if its head is not allowed to do so


It should be set loose enough that they can get a bend, as Faye has it.

I'm still deciding between this and the Equi Ami system, Home just a little different


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Golden Horse said:


> It should be set loose enough that they can get a bend, as Faye has it.
> 
> I'm still deciding between this and the Equi Ami system, Home just a little different


it is quite obvious in the video that the horses is not bent his head is turned out of the circle I didn't make it up I watched the video . and I didn't think the rein's looked lose either


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

no you want equal pressure which is why side reins should always be equal. you create bend by riding from your inside leg to your outside rein. if you are useing your inside rein what you are doing is createing a crooked horse who is bending thier neck and nothing more
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stan (Aug 25, 2011)

I have not read it all but from what I see as an outsider looking in I would not run the horse towards a fence, I see the logic but the danger is to high. Trapped, and in a corner, panic sets in and all hell breaks loose then the horse learns a new way of re-acting. Slow and steady, confidence building is required, and with its past, one would expect some time to pass befor it trusted again if ever. Having suffered a broken pelvis,( if I have got that right). My question is how can it be ridden. Would that not give tremendous discomfort and cause it to re-act. Different folks, different strokes, applies to animals to.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

stan the horse has undergone treatment and rehab for the pelvis and apart from a small amount of muscle wastage you cant tell it was ever broken. 
he was never lame and did do 2 dressage tests prior to the diagnosis however looking back he was. clearly in pain as he was extremely unpredictable he bolted and reared but it was worse when we were askig him to shift his weight back and carry himself properly
eta it has taken 2yrs to get him to this point so yes slowly slowly catchy monkey worked in this case
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## minstrel (Mar 20, 2012)

I'm very interested to read this - I have a friend who rants and raves about the pessoa, but I personally have always just used old-fashioned side-reins to very good effect. However, having done a lot of work with problem horses, I've found a lot of the 'gadgets' out there to have a practical use at points in retraining problem horses, if used properly, so I'd be interested to know exactly what it is that the pessoa would be useful in correcting.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

faye said:


> no you want equal pressure which is why side reins should always be equal. you create bend by riding from your inside leg to your outside rein. if you are useing your inside rein what you are doing is createing a crooked horse who is bending thier neck and nothing more
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


you use the inside rein to bend at the poll. there are plenty of articles on it and I just read 1 by Jane Savoi . I think she might have a little more experience than any of us. when I use side reins I have that much looser than you have your system . I think it is tight and I don't see that the horse could bend if it wanted to and Golden Horse I have a friesian cross and it moved quite odd until I spent many long hours of working it with long lines and lunging and just using a whip to drive it forward . I assume you're interested in the system because of the horse in your avatar which is moving quite oddley also . it is a freisian thing to move with the rear end too far back and pulling themselves around with the front end and it takes a lot of work to get the moving correctly .


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

cherumbiq please feel free to debate rein length with carl hester. also bend should not come from the poll but from your leg
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

You know I was brought up thinking that the inner rein had to be shorter, but more recently I have been swayed by the "equal length" argument.

At to why I'm looking at the pessoa, well I don't think that Ben moves oddly, he moves naturally, and now needs to move as I want him. I have two saddlebred influenced horses here, they both tend to revert to head up, back hollow and hocks out behind. I want to encourage them to reverse that, head down, back up and hocks under, and this looks a good way of doing it.

Again, if something is adjusted correctly it will suggest and help a horse find a new shape, not force him into it. It also provides a constant for them. Each to their own, I have changed my opinion on a few things as I get older.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

faye said:


> cherumbiq please feel free to debate rein length with carl hester. also bend should not come from the poll but from your leg
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 A combination of rein and leg is used article didn't talk about changing rein length but you twisted your wrist which changes the rein position. regardless of what you doing riding you obviously aren't using your legs with your system and the horse is not bending with the reins as they are it is not able to bend . if you look at any video or pictures of the dressage horses their neck and head is on the arc of the circle


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

churumbeque said:


> . if you look at any video or pictures of the dressage horses their neck and head is on the arc of the circle


No thier head and neck is not on the arc of the circle, the entire body is on the arc of the circle. You do not use uneven reins to achive it, you ride you horse forwards between your inside leg and outside hand and bend the horse round your inside leg, no inside rein required other than to hod an even contact. If you are using the riens to put thier head and neck on the arc then your horse is crooked.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

*The Pessoa System*









Horse being jerked in the mouth by his own hock action.
During the Pessoas' total reign in showjumping in the 80's and 90's many "inventions" came from their barn. One was the *Pessoa Gag Bit*, which I speak of elsewhere, which is a combination of a driving bit and an elevator gag, and then the Pessoa Training System used for lungeing. This system is supposed to get the horse to stretch down AND engage the hindlegs forward, and thus be good for the back. I have seen it at work several times, and whilst it does get the horse to lower his head on the lunge, the most glaring effect of this contraption is that it succeeds in *jabbing the horse in the mouth with each push of the hindlegs*. 








Horse being jerked in the mouth by
his own hock action.

It has a semi-intricate pulley system that via a lunge-girth connects the gaskins with the mouth. I guess the rope is supposed to encourage the horse to grasp forward with the hindlegs as it tightens around the hindleg and at the same time limit the height of the head. But which is more sensitive - the skin on the hocks or the mouth!? The horse will be encouraged to roll down but not stretch to the bit, because the bit jabs at the mouth with each step. Now this is mechanical if anything! 








Horse being jerked in the mouth by
his own hock action.

I have also never seen any horse truly engage in this "system", only go on the forehand and curl behind the bit. It can be adjusted lower (for more stretch) and higher (for collection) but it seems to have very little such effect. *Just something I found on the internet*

*The 2 Part Chambon Lunge Device*









The chambon puts pressure on the poll and mouth.
If you necessarily need to use something to get your horse to stretch down, please use a kinder and cheaper gadget than the Pessoa System or The Abbot Davies. Remember that patent holders make mega-bucks out of your desperation, and sell a bunch of strings for $150 or more. The money you spend will not do your horse any good. Construct a cheap and kind homemade thing instead, and spend the money on a chiro for your horse, or longlining lessons. 








The chambon releases its pressure as the horse
stretches.

Use a chambon in front and simply sling a rubber neck-extender around the hocks and attach to the girth on both sides. I guarantee the horse will feel just as much behind is rear end, but the chambon will have mercy on his mouth and allow him to stretch all the way forward-down-out! Remember also, that it is the innate drive forward from the hindquarters that create the stretch, so teach your horse to drive forward without rushing.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

^and these illustrations show exactly why I don't like the Pessoa system, or it's relative the hock hobbles. People will argue that having a horse "do it to themselves and figure their way out", as in hock hobbles, a system that works mouth contact in a manner such as the Pessoa...is the way to go. I'm sorry but I have to disagree. Contact such as this SHOULD be gained with a rider on the back, hands on the reins with seat and leg to back it up, not a contrapment slapped on the horse where back leg and body movement effects the bit in the horses mouth. 

I had an QH mare in training with a guy who never should have hung up the trainer sign because he looked for short cuts. He put my 3 YO mare in a surcingle and chambon in a round pen for over an hour to "fight against herself and figure it out"....because he was not getting satisfaction while riding her. WE are supposed to help them figure it out by riding them and asking them through the aids....not by such overly-mechanical means as these gadgets.

ETA: the chambon this trainer used was not utilized in the manner shown in the diagram above. He strapped that sucker on hard.....she had rubbed herself raw all across her chest. I moved her out immediately.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Well there is also this

The Effect of the Pessoa Training Aid on Temporal, Linear and Angular Variables of the Working Trot | eurodressage

sorry can't cut and paste from there

also

Peasebrook Equine Rehab - About Us


It is impossible to describe all the conditions we deal with as there are so many different presentations especially horses that have suffered a traumatic incident such as a fall or road traffic accident. These cases can have all manner of pain, muscle spasm, dysfunction, muscle wastage etc. Generally speaking the sooner a horse receives treatment after a trauma, the better.  
There is no substitute for "_knowing what works_" but we also incorporate new treatments as they come along in order to evaluate them. There is very little published work on results of different treatments and therapies mainly due to the unique features of many cases, with many variables, making direct case comparisons difficult. This means that one seldom gets enough case numbers with a similar enough profile to be able to apply statistics to the data. Success of a case is judged by elimination of lameness, return to previous level of performance in a dressage horse for example, or number of races completed and level of prize money achieved in the racing industry.
Many of our rehabilitation patients are recovering from back treatments ranging from dorsal spinous process resection to facet joint medication and release of muscle spasm. With surgical cases, wound healing is the initial concern and often we cross-tie horses to prevent them lying down and disrupting sutures. Thereafter we start exercise to prevent unwanted adhesions and promote mobility. Horses with primary muscular spasm are treated in a variety of ways including deep muscle massage, acupuncture, tissue injection and osteopathic manipulation. They then enter a ground schooling program; we use Pessoa and Equi-Ami training aids which encourage the horse to work in the correct outline to promote the right muscle development to support the vertebral column. We also encourage patients to work long and low to allow stretching, flexing and enabling the horse to find a natural balance. Close scrutiny of the horse at exercise allows us to assess symmetry of action on both reins.
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We can Cut and paste all day, but the Pessoa type is not hock hobbles, used properly it is not designed to 'sock them in the mouth' Used wrongly it is as abusive as you care to make it, used properly a lot of people find it beneficial.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

I think you should get one and show us your progress I'm sure it can help some people that might be uncomfortable long lighting


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

http://www.horseforum.com/jokes-funnies/training-gadgets-143675/
Golden Horse I was surprised to see this thread you made. From your responses above you seem to like the pessoa but in this thread you are making fun of it. So I am more confused or is it just because Faye likes it you do??


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

churumbeque said:


> you use the inside rein to bend at the poll. there are plenty of articles on it and I just read 1 by Jane Savoi . I think she might have a little more experience than any of us. when I use side reins I have that much looser than you have your system . I think it is tight and I don't see that the horse could bend if it wanted to and Golden Horse I have a friesian cross and it moved quite odd until I spent many long hours of working it with long lines and lunging and just using a whip to drive it forward . I assume you're interested in the system because of the horse in your avatar which is moving quite oddley also . it is a freisian thing to move with the rear end too far back and pulling themselves around with the front end and it takes a lot of work to get the moving correctly .


 I wanted to correct this statement about him moving oddly. I was just going by his stride in your avitar and saw pictures of a cowboy riding him in a thread. He looked quit nice in those pictures. Your avitar doesn't do him justice.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

churumbeque, if you are unable to see the difference between making fun of this










And this










Then I feel sorry for you.

I support the PROPER use of such items, as an aid, not as a demand.

I don't know how much clearer I can make my position, while there ARE good and bad gadgets and training aids, it is true that some people should not use any gadget, because they really think that cranking stuff to it's tightest makes it more effective.

I have not myself used the Pessoa type system, but I have been researching it with an open mind, and am convinced that used correctly this will be a beneficial aid in my situation. I have not yet decided if I should go for the original, or a knock off, or for the Equi Ami system, but one will be coming here shortly.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Golden Horse said:


> churumbeque, if you are unable to see the difference between making fun of this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your thread says." Shame this is truer than we think." It does not show a horse moving calmly like you just posted nor does it make any statements except you knocking it. I am just going by your thread and not adding anything to it. It sounds like you are making fun of it to me.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

I cannot help what you decide to perceive from threads, I have tried my best to explain, I obviously lack the skills to help you to see what I see, and that's OK not everyone gets me, not everyone sees the difference, don't feel badly.


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