# Rising Trot



## GypsyNymph (Feb 23, 2008)

When I do the rising trot one of my legs tend to swing forward, what causes that and is there any exercises that can be done at home since I do not own a horse?


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## CharliesMom (Jul 7, 2009)

You are pinching with your knees! You need to let your weight sink into your heels on both sides, one side may be weaker than the other and causing you to sit off balance therefore the leg swing. Strengthening up your core muscles will help stabilize you in the saddle so that you won't feel the need to do so with your knees.
Also, something my trainer tells me all the time. RELAX! let the horse move your instead of you moving you. When you do a rising trot properly the horse will propel you out of the saddle and back down so that you are conforming to the horses movements, not the other way around.  hope that helps!


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Does your saddle fit you/put you in correct position? I had A/P saddle I could do nothing about keeping my legs under me. Same issue with most lesson saddles I've tried. Both my own saddles do keep me in correct position though.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

How far do you come out of the saddle when posting?


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

bsms said:


> How far do you come out of the saddle when posting?


Nothing to do with it. Swinging legs are pivoting at the knees. Supple the legs so that there is no blocking and the swinging stops even if you end up standing on the stirrups.


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## GypsyNymph (Feb 23, 2008)

kitten_Val said:


> Does your saddle fit you/put you in correct position? I had A/P saddle I could do nothing about keeping my legs under me. Same issue with most lesson saddles I've tried. Both my own saddles do keep me in correct position though.


I'm not sure if the saddle fits me, it is a lesson saddle.



mildot said:


> Nothing to do with it. Swinging legs are pivoting at the knees. Supple the legs so that there is no blocking and the swinging stops even if you end up standing on the stirrups.


What do you mean by supple the legs?


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

mildot said:


> Nothing to do with it. Swinging legs are pivoting at the knees. Supple the legs so that there is no blocking and the swinging stops even if you end up standing on the stirrups.


Actually, it can. If the saddle tends to put you in a chair seat, and if you are like my youngest daughter and want to stand in the stirrups at each rising, then you will have a lot of forward/backward motion that will make your legs swing. And a lot of western saddles are designed to put you in a chair seat - think saddles designed for sudden stops or a rope pulling on the horn. In the same saddle, if you barely lift off the saddle, you won't have forward-aft motion because you are not going all the way up and above the forward stirrups. It becomes more of a roll on your thighs than a forward & up motion.

With an English saddle, your heels should be more under your hips, which is what you want. However, gravity tends to pull your butt into the lowest part of the saddle seat, and the stirrups directly below the stirrup bars. If the distance between the two is too large for your thighs, then it will tend to put you in a chair seat.

For GypsyNymph: When the horse is standing still, wiggle your rump into the lowest part of the saddle. Then look at your stirrup bars. If the ball of your foot is that distance forward, where will your heel be in relation to your hip? If it is significantly forward, then you'll find posting awkward.

You don't always have a lot of choice with lesson saddles. If the saddle doesn't fit you well, you either fight it or adjust your approach. If your lesson saddle puts you in a chair seat, try posting just enough to get your weight off the saddle. Less motion will mean less swinging as well.

Also, for me, 'suppling' tends to mean, "Try to pry my knees apart". I have naturally tight thighs, so I will grip with my knees unless I make a conscious effort to separate my knees. Normally, supple means a relaxed leg. You want any weight to flow easily into your heels.


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## GypsyNymph (Feb 23, 2008)

Is it a possibility I might be trying to post too much with my feet to lift out of the saddle?


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Pictures might help. If your heels are under your hip, you can extend your leg - I like to think of it as uncoiling my leg, since that just sounds less stiff - and you don't create a forward/aft movement of the stirrups because your heels are always under your hip.

If you have a jump saddle instead of a dressage saddle, then the stirrups will be a bit forward and the style of riding changes to a forward seat. In that case, you are leaning forward from the seat so that your center of gravity remains over the stirrups. You can still uncoil your leg and even get fairly high out of the saddle and it is OK because your center of gravity stays over the stirrups.

If your stirrups are in front of your center of gravity, then you have a 'chair seat'. That is fine if you are about to rope a steer, but not so good for English riding. However, if your saddle is too big for the length of your thigh, then you will tend to have a chair seat. It simply means the deepest part of the saddle, where gravity tries to put your rump, is far enough behind the stirrup leathers that your legs angle forward to find the stirrup.

In a perfect world, you would simply change your saddle to one that fits you. However, most of us live in an imperfect world, and have to take what we can get sometimes.

For illustration, below is a picture of my daughter posting in a western saddle that is a couple of sizes too big for her.










If she sat down, her thighs would be almost parallel to the ground, and her knees bent. Her rump would be well behind the stirrups. When she posts like that, the horse doesn't have enough thrust with his rear to shove her all the way forward. So she tries to force it.

As she forces her hips forward, it pulls her feet back. You can see the stirrup leather are not hanging straight down, but have been pulled with her feet. Now she is actually off balance, and when she comes down, she'll come down hard - annoying the horse, and defeating the purpose of posting. Happily, she has grown a few inches since this picture, and she now looks a lot better.

That is a fairly extreme case, and I would hope your English saddle fits you better. However, she could have posted smoother even in that saddle. The point of posting is not to stand in the stirrups, but to take pressure off of the horse's back for a little bit. If she had been content to just uncoil her legs a little and accept that she would not ever get completely above the stirrups, she could have posted OK.

In that case: If she would keep her knees far enough apart that she doesn't create a pivot point with her knees, and uncoil her legs just enough to get her crotch off the saddle by an inch or so, her posting would have been OK even in a poor fitting saddle. It becomes more of a roll on the thighs than a standing in the stirrups.

If you don't have a chair seat, then you are probably gripping with your knees.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

While I agree that saddle fit could contribute, my money is on pinching with the knees.

Even if the saddle puts you in a bit of a chair seat, good legs will not swing no matter what.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

GypsyNymph said:


> I'm not sure if the saddle fits me, it is a lesson saddle.


Then it may be saddle and not you. :wink: Could you try couple different saddles in barn to see if it's easier/more difficult for you to keep legs under in other saddle?


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

GypsyNymph said:


> Is it a possibility I might be trying to post too much with my feet to lift out of the saddle?


Yes, it may be a case too. When you post you have to use your hips, not so much the whole body. Could you post some pics of videos may be?


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

mildot said:


> Even if the saddle puts you in a bit of a chair seat, good legs will not swing no matter what.


I don't know how one can post (much less jump) effectively and correctly with the chair seat. Some saddles will throw you off the balance no matter what depending on saddle design and your own hips/pelvis (and if the size of the saddle is right for you). I'm not arguing that pinching can be a case too, but it may be combined issue (she tries to keep them under by pinching). 

I took lessons on someone's horse last winter, and the dressage saddle put me in chair position every single time. However, it was not me, but my trainer also pointed out at the 1st lesson that it's not a very successful design, and that she has similar problem. I managed to ride, but it took lots of effort to keep legs under.


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## GypsyNymph (Feb 23, 2008)

kitten_Val said:


> Yes, it may be a case too. When you post you have to use your hips, not so much the whole body. Could you post some pics of videos may be?


I can try to but I usually don't have anyone to go with me to my lesson.



kitten_Val said:


> I don't know how one can post (much less jump) effectively and correctly with the chair seat. Some saddles will throw you off the balance no matter what depending on saddle design and your own hips/pelvis (and if the size of the saddle is right for you). I'm not arguing that pinching can be a case too, but it may be combined issue (she tries to keep them under by pinching).
> 
> I took lessons on someone's horse last winter, and the dressage saddle put me in chair position every single time. However, it was not me, but my trainer also pointed out at the 1st lesson that it's not a very successful design, and that she has similar problem. I managed to ride, but it took lots of effort to keep legs under.


Are there certain brands that don't have a very good design or is it just the individual saddle design?


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

GypsyNymph said:


> I can try to but I usually don't have anyone to go with me to my lesson.


Give the video camera to your trainer. Mine has no problem with it.




GypsyNymph said:


> Are there certain brands that don't have a very good design or is it just the individual saddle design?


It's a saddle design thing


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