# Green Broke Mare - Wont Trot - Lazy Stubborn or Clueless?



## shermyj1199 (Feb 1, 2011)

I recently broke out my mare. We've had quite a few rides and i know she knows her cues. I dont know if she is just being lazy, or if she just dosnt wana do it. I just cant get her to trot undersaddle without someone helping to push her along. Im going to try riding her while shes on the lunge line and try getting her use to the cues that way. Anyother ideas? Shes very easy going and not afraid of much. I think she mite have a lazy streak too...not much "get up and go" but that mite be because i lunge her before...but i cant get her to trot on the ground without a whip. (shes a 4yo Half Arabian)


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

She is probably still very unblanced at a trot with a rider.


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## shermyj1199 (Feb 1, 2011)

myhorsesonador said:


> She is probably still very unblanced at a trot with a rider.


That dosnt totaly explain why she wont attempt to trot. Even unblanced horses will trot a few steps then stop. and when i have a person helping me she goes into a trot much better.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Possiblely unbalance with a rider at 4, but if you cannot get her to trot on the lunge, then it doesn't surprise me that you can't get her to trot under saddle.

She isn't hurt, right? Will she trot out in the field? would she trot to her feed bucket?

How badly do you want to trot? She is rising to the level of your expectation, not what you think you want but what you are saying you will be satisfied with, saying with your actions. so if you really want her to move out, you MUST say so with your actions, and accept nothing less. She will rise to your new level of expectations. She may complain, she may swish her tail, jump around, buck a little, you name it, but she CAN and WIll trot if you require it.


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## Islandmudpony (Feb 7, 2011)

I'd say just use a whip. I know it sounds harsh, lol, but there's more to it than that. Use a whip, and urge her on until she trots. Then of course cease all driving aids, tell her she's a good girl, and give her a big pat on the neck. Don't trot her for long, and do lots of walk-trot, and trot-walk transitions, so that she's very clear what the aids for the transition are.


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## shermyj1199 (Feb 1, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> Possiblely unbalance with a rider at 4, but if you cannot get her to trot on the lunge, then it doesn't surprise me that you can't get her to trot under saddle.
> 
> She isn't hurt, right? Will she trot out in the field? would she trot to her feed bucket?
> 
> How badly do you want to trot? She is rising to the level of your expectation, not what you think you want but what you are saying you will be satisfied with, saying with your actions. so if you really want her to move out, you MUST say so with your actions, and accept nothing less. She will rise to your new level of expectations. She may complain, she may swish her tail, jump around, buck a little, you name it, but she CAN and WIll trot if you require it.


No No! she listens to all her cues on the ground as long as i have a whip. or other meathod of persuasion. The horse i show is quite stubborn and i know how to be firm with commands. I dont want to kick her to much i was quite agressive with her and she would pin her ears at me...i got a few steps but then she would just grunt and walk again. I think shes being stubborn. Like i said i think she needs a meathod of persuasion, aka a whip. but i realy dont want to use a whip on such a young horse.


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## shermyj1199 (Feb 1, 2011)

Islandmudpony said:


> I'd say just use a whip. I know it sounds harsh, lol, but there's more to it than that. Use a whip, and urge her on until she trots. Then of course cease all driving aids, tell her she's a good girl, and give her a big pat on the neck. Don't trot her for long, and do lots of walk-trot, and trot-walk transitions, so that she's very clear what the aids for the transition are.


I was thinking of grabbing one but i want to try her on the lunge first with me riding her. so she can relate kicking with "GO FORWARD" when i do get the few steps of a trot i do praise her. 

I rode her tonight and could only get a few steps...so just looking for ideas for our next ride.


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## TKButtermilk (May 20, 2010)

If she only listens to you on the ground if you have a whip its not surprising that that translates into the saddle. She very likely either doesn't take you seriously without it, or doesn't understand. I would go back to your groundwork and get her doing everything without the whip, and then move back into riding and see what happens. With my baby I taught her to move off using the whip as a cue (she could do everything without the whip also of course). I used it to teach her what my legs meant. It went walk, squeeze, gentle bump, tap with the whip. She quickly began moving without getting past the second step. Also my girl was a total cuddle bug so I used that to my advantage, she wanted to follow my mom so I would have her on a loose rein and follow my mom around the arena. We would be following along and then I'd ask her to woah and my mom would keep walking. Then I would ask her to walk or trot to catch back up to my mom again. It was just another way to give her incentive to go forward and learn what my legs meant. 

If I'm totally off about the whip thing feel free to disregard everything but I hope that helps in some way or gives you some ideas on getting her to move forward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

This is VERY common with a horse that is just recently backed. They are not being lazy.. they just do not understand. 

I never rushed it. How many times have you been on her? Remember, this is all new to her. Horses do not generalize command cues between very changed circumstances. You being on her back and not on the ground is a very changed circumstance to her. 

Take your time. She does not need to trot right away. Get her moving very well at the walk. Get her moving out at the walk.. doing leading rein turns and large large circles. Take a couple of weeks at this and work her daily. teach her to move forward briskly at the walk.. not expecting a trot. 

At the end of two weeks, have someone come in the ring with you and ask the horse to trot from the ground. Use your leg cues on her as you feel her break into the trot on the long side of the ring. Cue her back down into the walk before she makes a turn.. and then repeat on the long side or the arena. No more than four times in a session. Do this for a few days and then have your second person stand in the ring and you ask for the trot with leg cues... (the person helping you needs to be able to see you do this) and have them give ground cues if she does not take up the trot. 

Just be patient and give her time. Better to take it slow and get her totally with you than to build anything you do not want to carry forward.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

What do you have on her face? Are you riding her with a halter, bit or hack?

Green trainers riding green horses tend to be harsh on the horses face. ANY pressure and the horse will not move forward. Also a lot of young horses have rough gaits. If the rider is bumping too much on their back, they won't move because it bothers them.


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## shermyj1199 (Feb 1, 2011)

mls said:


> What do you have on her face? Are you riding her with a halter, bit or hack?
> 
> Green trainers riding green horses tend to be harsh on the horses face. ANY pressure and the horse will not move forward. Also a lot of young horses have rough gaits. If the rider is bumping too much on their back, they won't move because it bothers them.


I have a bridal on her with a soft bit but i clip the rigns on the halter and i dont pull on her face at all. When she does trot i try to post or 2 point so im not bouncing on her back


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

shermyj1199 said:


> I have a bridal on her with a soft bit but i clip the rigns on the halter and i dont pull on her face at all. When she does trot i try to post or 2 point so im not bouncing on her back


How does the bridle fit? Do you have the halter over the bridle or vice versa? Metal on metal 'clanks' when the horse moves. Some horses cannot stand the vibration so they will not do anything to cause it.


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## shermyj1199 (Feb 1, 2011)

mls said:


> How does the bridle fit? Do you have the halter over the bridle or vice versa? Metal on metal 'clanks' when the horse moves. Some horses cannot stand the vibration so they will not do anything to cause it.


the halter is under the bridal and i know the bridal fits well...just tight enough so she cant flip her toung over. I havent noticed any clanking but i will watch for that tomarrow when i work her. Shes not realy they type to be bothered easily...if you know what i mean....flapping sturrups and dangling straps dont bother her the least and her side reigns some times jingle so i would have a hard time believing that would cause her stubborness. Thanks for the tips!


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## TKButtermilk (May 20, 2010)

By posting and 2 point you might be confusing her and throwing off any balance she may have. Maybe try just sitting the trot and leaving her be when she does what you want
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## shermyj1199 (Feb 1, 2011)

Only problem with that is that shes extreamly bouncy at the trot
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

check your tack, try it bareback, etc.

if all else fails, try this:

for this method you'll need 2 people, if possible.

get 1 person walking on the horse while the other is standing in the middle of a round pen or holding the horse on a lunge.

the rider applies the leg aid, if that doesnt work to get her to trot, the other uses the lunge whip or whatever to get the horse to trot. of course your horse needs to be able to trot on the lunge first.

doesn't matter why your horse trots, whether it be from 1 person, 2 people, lunging or whatever, as long as the horse does trot and you've given your horse aprox. a 3 second ish chance to do it properly off of the leg aid.

as long as you ALWAYS go through the sequence of leg aid, THEN lunge to get the desired response, the horse will associate leg aids with the desired response.

once you've got that down you won't need to have the 2nd person lunging, provided it was done correctly. when everythings going well the lunger shouldnt be doing anything. but when the horse is dull is the time for the lunger to bring in the whip as a reinforcer.

once you've got that down entirely i'd reccomend lots of halt-trot/canter transitions (without the 2nd person lunging), for sensitivity to leg aids without requiring a lunger.

this is just one strategy worth trying, there are lots out there. if you need any more details on this or if there's any confusion feel free to PM me


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## Islandmudpony (Feb 7, 2011)

Wanted to refine what I posted earlier. I go by what I call an "escalating force" method with all of my horses. First, you ask really nicely, say, a nudge with the legs and use a voice command (with a green horse). If nothing happens, kick and cluck. If nothing happens, then go for the whip. If that still doesn't work, keep asking until it does. 

It sounds like your horse is still learning to balance with a rider, so that will help. I'm having a bit of the same trouble with canter transitions on a green pony I'm helping a friend get started - she's 3 and only 13.5 hands (and I'm an adult), so we're having trouble picking up the canter without running into it, and keeping it going. But... I think we're making progress, lol.


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

I would like to offer you some advice with as much respect,concern,and thoughtfulness as I can without giving you the feeling that I am talking down to you.

This is a very common problem that occurs with young horses and getting them going is not too hard at all.

The goal is to get forward movement and have the young horse confident to carry the rider.
The balance of the horse and ride are key.
The rider is trying to instill a work ethic and a solid set of cues for the gait that they want.

It all comes down to creating impulsion!
I have said this several times before and I may say it a thousand time more.
The job of the handler is to "Inspire" the horse.
The very definition of the word means to influence by example.

What better example than a second horse that can provide the pace for the young horse.

The young horse learns and* "Mirrors"* the lead horse.
It is totally natural for a young horse to lock on to an older and more seasoned one and look for guidance.

Impulsion is created without force and the idea of movement while carrying a load is learned.
A second rider is there for safety and to help set the speed.

Just a few rides like this a you will find that you have a different horse.

Do not overlook the use of a second horse to pony the young horse also.
This is done in the race horse world and is common in polo also.
It is used with horses being trained for trail and ranch work too.
What is not to like?
















Here is a first ride using this method.


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

marecare knows the score.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Although ponying is wonderful for training, there are some things about it that if you've never done it before you'd want someone to point out any thing you should be careful about, for safety sake. 
Also, I don't know if the OP has a second horse to pony from. Dunno.

I think that Elana said it well, and some others too. Get forward movement at walk, don't work in small circles yet and maybe use another horse or human to inspire the hrose to move forward.

Marecare would you like to explain to us any pointers on ponying; i.e Things you DONT do (dangerous) and things you do. I would love to learn any tips. I think it's a great thing to know how to do, and I've nver done it. Never had a need to .


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

tinyliny said:


> Although ponying is wonderful for training, there are some things about it that if you've never done it before you'd want someone to point out any thing you should be careful about, for safety sake.
> Also, I don't know if the OP has a second horse to pony from. Dunno.
> 
> I think that Elana said it well, and some others too. Get forward movement at walk, don't work in small circles yet and maybe use another horse or human to inspire the hrose to move forward.
> ...



Thank you and I realize that I live in an area where this has been practiced for a very long time and what is very common for us might be strange for others.

The lead horse has to be chosen and matched to fit the training and sometimes a good place to start is just having the young horse in a pen next to the older one.
Some cases a handler might put them in together for a bit so that they can kind of work it out.

I would suggest that a person that has not done this before not wrap or dally the lead rope around the horn or tie it on to anything.

The lead horse may become a bit irritated with the young horses lack of enthusiasm and squeal,cow kick,or nip,so a handler should always be on the lookout for bad behavior.

Think of it like a very small trail ride that might only last 10 minutes.

It is best to start out in a small pen and not get all hung up about the lead rope at first.
Just with being there with a second horse will inspire more movement from the young one in most cases.

If there is any nervousness the young one will lock on (just like they do in the herd) and track right along to gain comfort.

The young horse will aquaint themselves with seeing a rider above them if they have not been ridden yet and the second rider can *"Circle up"* (just like they do in a herd)the young one if you are riding the young one for the first time and loose some directional control.

These pictures are of a young three year old that we were "Inspiring"...Ha!


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Marecare has it right. I often forget how many miles I ponied my young horses on a lead. Probably as many miles as I walked behind them with long lines. 

I worked about 400 acres on the dairy farm with 300 of that contiguous acreage. I would take my older quiet horse out and when we got out back where it was perimeter fenced and take the young horse off the pony lead and allow the young one to tag along (which, being herd animals, they did). Got the young horse used to all sorts of stuff.. from various footing and terrain to wildlife (including turkeys flying up in our faces etc.) and cattle. 

I never had another horse give my youngster a lead to get into a trot when we were doing first rides because no one else rode except me. I have had a lead when I was a very beginner rider about 40 years ago (where did THAT time go!).


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## shermyj1199 (Feb 1, 2011)

We have about 2 feet of snow where I am and ice so i wont be able to give ponying a try just yet. we do have one mare that bonded really well with my horse that I ride frequently. she is defiantly the lead mare in the heard and my horse is about as close as anyone to her. the only thing is that this mare (even being 22) is VERY hot. she just about as big as a pony and pure Arabian out of Scottsdale on fire. she use to be a barrel racer and it takes a good 30min ride to get her calmed down. my only fear with the pony thing is that my horse mite pick up some bad habits from the older mare. or not even try to keep up. I free lunge her sometimes in the arena with an older grey mare and my horse will more or less just stand in one spot while the other horse trots/runs around. I’m not afraid of any kicking or biting between the older mare and my horse but I think another horse will just complicate our situation. She is much more focused with another person in the arena with me than another horse.


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