# Stop Horse Slaughter!



## Tennessee

Oh don't even get me started on why I don't agree with this...

Pro-Slaughter ftw!


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## palominolover

i kindof agree with you, i didn't watch the video. But i think if you do it humanely horse slaughter is okay, lots of places do do it humanely. =/ it's really quite necessary.


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## Katesrider011

I don't really know what to say about slaughter. I've heard that many places are humane and I've heard many aren't, so...


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## KendallAR

Where is it done humanely? If the horse is happy and not being abused up until their death, then go ahead.. But I've only seen videos of inhumane places, where the horse is desperately trying to escape but ends up getting hung up on a rope by a leg, blood dripping down to the floor.


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## Katesrider011

I've seen vids like that too, I believe that's in Mexico because the people looked Mexican in the videos I saw. In canada it's fairly decent, and they get it done quick and it's regulated. In the Usa when it used to be here it was regulated and decent. Cause you know if it came to the usa, the animal cruelty groups are gonna be all over their *** trying to stop it or atleast force em to be as humane as possible.


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## palominolover

so you just want every single horse to be adopted, the horse shelters don't have enough room. so they need to slaughter some.


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## Sissimut-icehestar

I never get why there are always pictues of starving horses in slaughter videos. I don't think slaughter has much to with that.

But any way, I'm pro slaughter all they way and I like the way it's done in my country. We have good rules.


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## Katesrider011

palominolover: Exactly.

And also, people can save horses from slaughter, but be aware as well alot of horses going to slaughter are unhealthy anyway. But sadly there are good horses that go there as well. And that's where I disagree with it is when a good racehorse or any horse like that gets sent there to make quick cash. And also you can get you're horse microchipped in case it gets stolen it can be returned. It's pricy I'm sure but once I get own my own my horses are getting chipped, I'd rather pay for the chip than my horse getting slaughtered if it were ever stolen cause I didn't bother to do it.


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## KendallAR

palominolover- "so you just want every single horse to be adopted, the horse shelters don't have enough room. so they need to slaughter some.": Which brings me to another problem: overbreeding for horseracing, PMU, etc etc etc. Not to mention, if you ARE going to result to killing the animal, could you not do it in a way where the animal's life doesn't end in fear? I have had to euthanize many horses and they were always VERY happy and calm up until their last breath, not screaming and trying everything in their power to escape.

Sissimut-icehestar: I don't know anything about slaughter for where you live, this video is based off of illegal US slaughterhouses.

Also I'd just like to add that when it comes to horses being neglected in someone's backyard, starving to death, slaughterhouses can be preferred. I'm just not for either one (and by slaughterhouses I'm referring to the inhumane ones, as I know nothing about the humane ones)


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## Tennessee

KendallAR said:


> Where is it done humanely? If the horse is happy and not being abused up until their death, then go ahead.. *But I've only seen videos of inhumane places*, where the horse is desperately trying to escape but ends up getting hung up on a rope by a leg, blood dripping down to the floor.


Of course you have because all you find are biased videos like the one you posted made by organizations like the Humane Society, PETA, etc. 

I've seen more than one slaughter house in real life, and neither one was abusive or uncaring to the animals.

Scared, nervous, tensed up, and malnourished animals make for bad, spoiled meat, which is why a good majority of slaughter houses actually do care for the animals. Don't let some stupid video made by brainless "animal lovers" brain wash your mind.


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## kmdstar

Oy, a slaughter thread. Never seen one of these before :roll:

I used to be all OMGZZZ DONT SLAUGHTER THE PONIES!! then I got a brain and realized horse slaughter is one of the best things horses have going for them. Instead of starving to death, they get killed. I know it's hard for that to sound better but think, seriously THINK of the time it would take for a horse to starve to death, all the suffering involved...as opposed to being shot in the head and dying. 

All the anti slaughter people go and look for the worst possible pictures/video clips and put together a video and then BAM think they are helping horses by advertising how everyone should be anti slaughter. You're NOT helping them! The only thing you are helping is a larger number of horses STARVING TO DEATH if slaughter didn't exsist.


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## speedy da fish

MOST slaughter is simply a bullet through the head, quick and painless. End of


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## Katesrider011

I wouldn't ever dare go to a slaughter house in my life. I don't ever want to see it. I wish there was a way to reduce the population naturally and without slaughter, but... Not much you can really do. But I can assure the majority of slaughter houses make it as stress free as possible.


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## Spastic_Dove

Tennessee hit the nail on the head. These videos are biased and youre not going to get the full understanding of what actually goes on during slaughter. Frankly I want slaughter houses back in the US where horses have to travel less and we can actually put some sort of regulation on it. 

OP if you search past threads you will find extensive threads on this subject where people outline why we need horse slaughter.


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## Katesrider011

And to add, how bout instead of worrying about slaughter, how about you go out and give your horse(s) a great big hug and thank god they won't have to go through that because they are with you. That's what I do all the time.


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## kmdstar

Katesrider011 said:


> And to add, how bout instead of worrying about slaughter, how about you go out and give your horse(s) a great big hug and thank god they won't have to go through that because they are with you. That's what I do all the time.


I agree.

Unless you can stop the NEED for slaughter (which there most certainly is) or stop idiots from breeding too much, there's nothing you can really do.


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## Spastic_Dove

Katesrider011 said:


> I wouldn't ever dare go to a slaughter house in my life. I don't ever want to see it. I wish there was a way to reduce the population naturally and without slaughter, but... Not much you can really do. But I can assure the majority of slaughter houses make it as stress free as possible.


There is a way. Regulate breeding. 

There will always be a demand for horse meat for consumption. But we have the ability to decrease the amount of slaughter going on.


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## Katesrider011

Yeah, it's kinda like beef, It's necassary, but I do feel it's being overly procduced as well.


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## HNS101

well i'm disgusted by it but if yah rly think of it say if you had a rly old horse and he was going to die soon wouldnt you rather him go to good use for food??


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## KendallAR

Tennessee- "I've seen more than one slaughter house in real life, and neither one was abusive or uncaring to the animals." Like I said, I ONLY know about inhumane slaugher houses, meaning I know nothing about the humane places. I have no opinion on them and already mentioned that, so I don't really see why you brought that up.

kmdstar- "..seriously THINK of the time it would take for a horse to starve to death, all the suffering involved...as opposed to being shot in the head and dying... The only thing you are helping is a larger number of horses STARVING TO DEATH if slaughter didn't exsist." I already _said_ that slaughtering is preferred to starving to death? And to the last sentence, are you saying there is not a better way to take away a horses life?

katesrider011- "And to add, how bout instead of worrying about slaughter, how about you go out and give your horse(s) a great big hug and thank god they won't have to go through that because they are with you. That's what I do all the time." Haha you're right, I did just that . He was a failed racehorse that very well could have ended up there, so I thank God!

Spastic_Dove- "These videos are biased and youre not going to get the full understanding of what actually goes on during slaughter." So you're saying the videos I've seen of inside the slaughter houses are biased too? (Once again, ONLY talking about the inhumane places here)

speedy da fish- "MOST slaughter is simply a bullet through the head, quick and painless. End of " For this I'll give you a quote:

_"Inside the slaughterhouse, each horse is led to a metal pen called a "kill box." A worker then shoots the animal in the head with a .22 caliber rifle.

When slaughtered properly, the bullet is supposed to enter a horse's brain at an angle that will instantly render the animal unconscious, resulting in a quick death and little or no suffering.

But CHDC's undercover video shows multiple instances in which horses at Richelieu are shot in the face at awkward angles. The shooter's poor aim means some horses must be shot two, even three times before they are dead.

"It's just complete chaos and brutality, and the suffering is really unimaginable," said Twyla Francois, CHDC's central region director and lead investigator.

Francois helped expose conditions at Richelieu and other Canadian horse slaughterhouses when she first began investigating the facilities four years ago. Since then, she's been pressuring the Canadian government for better oversight and more humane treatment of horses sent to slaughter. She believes the most recent video showing procedures inside Richelieu shows why horse slaughter isn't a good idea at all.

"A number of horses were shot in one eye, then the other eye. They're flailing around. Horses are classic flight animals. When they're scared of something they bolt, which simply doesn't allow for an efficient humane slaughter in an assembly line fashion," Francois said."_


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## Spastic_Dove

Yes because they are showing the lower rung of slaughter houses. Often these places are unregulated and have no real standards to live up to. 
When a slaughter house risks being closed down if they are not following regulations for humane treatment, they become a lot better. Money talks. 

Not to mention someones point about stress spoiling meat. 

There are bad apples in every bunch. Thats why I am for the reopening of slaughter houses in the US and making strict regulations for shipment and slaughter of horses. 
Horses will get better treatment and we will get revenue and jobs. Someone mentioned seeing what they thought were Mexicans in the videos. This does not necessarily mean theyre in Mexico. Because of the poor working conditions, risks, etc these jobs are marketed towads people who are so desperate for jobs that they will take anything including workers without papers from outside of the states (when places in the US were open).

We would need to regulate conditions for employees as well as the animals.

Shooting a horse can go wrong, yes. But if the horse is restrained properly and an experienced individual is doing it, it is fast and painless. Same goes with the captive bolt.


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## Katesrider011

HNS101: I wouldn't send mine to slaughter if that's what you're asking. It might be necessary, but my horses won't have to experience it. I don't know how you are with this, but shoot it and donate it to the zoo where they feed the meat to the animals. I'd rather shoot my horse on the spot while it was suffering than ship it somewhere still alive and then die. One shot to the head at point blank and it's done. Although I use Euthanasia for my horses. But I'm not opposed to anyone who shoots their horses, *As long as it's because it's cause the horse is suffering* I'm opposed to people shooting horses for fun. But that's kinda obvious


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## kevinshorses

I only saw one picture on that video that looked like it came from a slaughter house. The pictures of the dying and starved horses are garbage. They have nothing to do with slaughter. I have seen many animals killed in efficent, ethical slaughterhouses. Sometimes mistakes happen and it make take 2 or 3 shots to kill a horse but it is very rare. You never see the videos where the guy killing the horses does it right all day long. And who cares about the piles of nothing but heads. The horse was dead before they cut it off and didn't feel a thing. 

I wish all you bleeding hearts would get up off the couch and go see what happens in the real world. You can't learn everything from the internet and youtube. *Grow UP*


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## Tennessee

Just for the record, horse meat is actually very tasty. I'm eating it all of the time next time I go to Germany or France. They know how to grow 'em over there.


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## kevinshorses

If I find a nice fat pony that's cheap enough I might have some myself.


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## beau159

Don't you just love how half of the photos in that stupid little video are not even AT a slaughter plant? I especially was intrigued by the picture of the man holding a rifle in the air upside down to the horse's head with his right hand while holding onto the lead rope with his left hand ... what a moron. I am pretty darn sure that was not done at ANY slaughterplant in the US when they were open. 

You just need to take videos like that with a grain of salt and with a few brain cells. 

If you can't tell, I am PRO-slaughter. It doesn't mean I like horse slaughter, but I understand that it is a necessity due to our free-will society. 



> Horse slaughter in the US is illegal, but there are still secret places.


KendallAR: Where exactly are these "secret places"? I've never heard of any. 



> Where is it done humanely? If the horse is happy and not being abused up until their death, then go ahead.. But I've only seen videos of inhumane places, where the horse is desperately trying to escape but ends up getting hung up on a rope by a leg, blood dripping down to the floor.


It WAS done humanely right here in the US before PETA and other organizations shut it down. Now our horses get to be hauled much farther to Canada and Mexico, where Mexico has little to NO regulation on horse slaughter and it is inhumane in Mexico.

I have also only seen videos of inhumane slaughter because those are the biased videos that are pushed by organizations such as PETA to make horse slaughter appear to be cruel, inhumane, and "gone bad" to every single horse that walks through the door, which just isn't true. I personally have never been to a horse slaughter plant (there were none around my area), but I've done enough research to know that the inhumane accounts are rare and few between. 

Have you never gone deer hunting or seen a cattle plant? That's how you take care of the meat AFTER the animal has been killed. You hang it up upside down. That's just how you do it. 



> never get why there are always pictues of starving horses in slaughter videos. I don't think slaughter has much to with that.


I agree, Sissimut. The starving type horses often end their due to their owner's fault of not properly taking care of the horse or not having enough money to take care of the horse (and thus selling it) ... it is not the slaughterplant's fault. 



> But sadly there are good horses that go there as well. And that's where I disagree with it is when a good racehorse or any horse like that gets sent there to make quick cash.


KatesRider: I also don't like it when a perfectly good horse gets sent for slaughter, but what exactly can you do about it? There is free will of selling your "property" in this country, so if someone wants to sell their horse to a kill buyer at an auction, they have every right to. It's America. You step on constitutional rights if you would try to do anything about regulating who can and can't sell things. 



> this video is based off of illegal US slaughterhouses.


KendallAR: Where is your source for that? Sorry, I'm just a really research-minded person that likes to have hard proof for everything.



> well i'm disgusted by it but if yah rly think of it say if you had a rly old horse and he was going to die soon wouldnt you rather him go to good use for food??


HNS101: My fiance jokes about this all the time, saying we can just shoot my horse ourselves when he gets too old. I myself would not have a problem eating horse meat (I grew up on a ranch so meat = meat) and I actually would like to try it someday because I do hear it is really good. But I really don't think an old wrinkly horse is going to make for very good meat ... cattle don't anyway. So I just tell my fiance "no, because he wouldn't taste good enough when he's old."



> But CHDC's undercover video shows multiple instances in which horses at Richelieu are shot in the face at awkward angles. The shooter's poor aim means some horses must be shot two, even three times before they are dead.


KendallAR: Yes of course there are instances where they bolt gun is not aimed properly because it is run by a human. Humans make errors and make mistakes. Is that the slaughterplants fault? No. Because you can bet the boss-man will not be happy at his employee for messing up the shot, wasting bolts, stressing the horse, and not being efficient. A slaughterplant is a business and for them to make the most money they need to be efficient and accurate. So yes, there are mistakes, but mistakes occur because of human nature. But of course, the undercover videos are only going to show you those rare mistakes and NOT show you the times the bolt gun went right and the slaughter was humane with a relaxed and calm horse. 

And DITTO to Tennessee, Spastic Dove, and Kevinshorses.


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## lacyloo

KendallAR said:


> While these pictures are of very graphic nature, I actually picked the less disturbing photos, believe it or not. There are photos of large piles of JUST horse heads and legs. There is NOTHING right about horse slaughter, so do what you can to END it. Horse slaughter in the US is illegal, but there are still secret places. If you ever see what looks to be a horse trailer on the way to get slaughtered (barred, many horses packed inside), get the license plate down. You may be wrong, but you may be right.


 Tell you what, Post your address and we all can start sending you the unwanted,old,crazy horses to your place. Sounds like the best solution to me.


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## Katesrider011

Beau159: I didn't say I could do anything much about it, that's just what I don't like about it.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand

oh geez how many days before this thread goes bad? 

well, before I got onto horseforum I was also one of those SHUT THEM ALL DOWN people...I still don't like the idea of them, but unfortunately because of the irresponsible breeders around, there are too many horses in need of a good home, and not enough good homes :/ I'd love for there to be a way for ALL of them to be saved but that's life...unfortunately there's not. And as others have already mentioned, slaughter is preferable to letting the horse starve to death in a mud lot somewhere. 

I also think it would be best that they open back up in the US, because then there's a chance of them being regulated and as humane as they can be, and at least then horses wouldn't be getting shipped all the way to Canada and Mexico from the US. You think they stop every 4 hours to let the horses walk around and get a drink and some hay? UUUUMMMMM NO. They'd be much better off taking a short trip to a US slaughter house and ending the suffering more quickly.


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## KendallAR

lacyloo- "Tell you what, Post your address and we all can start sending you the unwanted,old,crazy horses to your place. Sounds like the best solution to me." I do have a lot of those already. And I also know a ton of slaughter rescues who either lived the rest of their lives getting happy and fat, or growing up to be great upper level event horses.

beau159- "KendallAR: Where exactly are these "secret places"? I've never heard of any." Southern Florida, Texas, and Illinois. I'm not sure if Dallas Crown, Bel-Tex, and Cavel have been shut down yet, but it does appear as if at least one is still running in Florida.

I'd just like to say that if there were a way to end their lives in as non-traumatic way as possible, I would be all for it. It's just that based on the research I've done on slaughter houses, I don't feel that the place is there. We're all welcome to our own opinion and we've all done our own separate research that got us to where we are. Obviously I realize that, like anything in life, there will be some good slaughter houses and some bad. Theses accounts were taken from the 'bad':

_The following excerpts are from the book, "Slaughterhouse" by Gail A. Eisnitz, Prometheus Books, New York, 1997:
Quote from a slaughterhouse worker: "You move so fast, you don't have time to wait till a horse bleeds out. You skin him as he bleeds. Sometimes a horse's nose is down in the blood, blowing bubbles, and he suffocates."
The emotional toll on workers: "I've taken out my job pressure on the animals, on my wife,... and on myself, with heavy drinking...with an animal who ****es you off, you don't just kill it. You ... blow the windpipe, make it drown in its own blood, split its nose... I would cut its eye out... and this hog would just scream. One time I... sliced off the end of a hog's nose. The hog went crazy, so I took a handful of salt brine and ground it into his nose. Now that hog really went nuts..."

Safety: Workers operate sharp instruments standing on a floor slippery with blood and gore, surrounded by conscious animals kicking for their lives, and pressed by a speeding slaughter line. 36 percent incur injuries. Workers who get disabled and those who complain about working conditions are fired and frequently replaced with undocumented aliens. "The conditions are very dangerous, and workers aren't well trained for the machinery. One machine has a whirring blade that catches people in it. Workers lose fingers. One woman's breast got caught in it and was torn off. Another's shirt got caught and her face was dragged into it."_

That was obviously a general slaughter house excerpt, not focused on just horses.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand




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## kevinshorses

KendallAR said:


> Southern Florida, Texas, and Illinois. I'm not sure if Dallas Crown, Bel-Tex, and Cavel have been shut down yet, but it does appear as if at least one is still running in Florida.
> 
> *You are incredibly uninformed! Dallas Crown, Bel Tex and Cavel have been shut down for years and years thanks to fools like you.*
> 
> I'd just like to say that if there were a way to end their lives in as non-traumatic way as possible, I would be all for it. It's just that based on the research I've done on slaughter houses, I don't feel that the place is there. We're all welcome to our own opinion and we've all done our own separate research that got us to where we are. Obviously I realize that, like anything in life, there will be some good slaughter houses and some bad. Theses accounts were taken from the 'bad':
> 
> _The following excerpts are from the book, "Slaughterhouse" by Gail A. Eisnitz, Prometheus Books, New York, 1997:_
> _Quote from a slaughterhouse worker: "You move so fast, you don't have time to wait till a horse bleeds out. You skin him as he bleeds. Sometimes a horse's nose is down in the blood, blowing bubbles, and he suffocates."_
> _The emotional toll on workers: "I've taken out my job pressure on the animals, on my wife,... and on myself, with heavy drinking...with an animal who ****es you off, you don't just kill it. You ... blow the windpipe, make it drown in its own blood, split its nose... I would cut its eye out... and this hog would just scream. One time I... sliced off the end of a hog's nose. The hog went crazy, so I took a handful of salt brine and ground it into his nose. Now that hog really went nuts..."_
> 
> _Safety: Workers operate sharp instruments standing on a floor slippery with blood and gore, surrounded by conscious animals kicking for their lives, and pressed by a speeding slaughter line. 36 percent incur injuries. Workers who get disabled and those who complain about working conditions are fired and frequently replaced with undocumented aliens. "The conditions are very dangerous, and workers aren't well trained for the machinery. One machine has a whirring blade that catches people in it. Workers lose fingers. One woman's breast got caught in it and was torn off. Another's shirt got caught and her face was dragged into it."_
> 
> That was obviously a general slaughter house excerpt, not focused on just horses.


*This is absolutely not true. I have worked at two different plants and been to many others and it doesn't happen. You have been lied to.*


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## Hoofprints in the Sand

This brings up another good point...when they shut down the US plants, it put a strain on the ones in other countries, like Canada, affecting the way those were being run as well...


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## Katesrider011

Yeah where ever that excerpt came from isn't true. That was someone with a creative mind making up some stuff to make it look horrible. The video was right, instead of banning slaughter, encourage people to be more responsible with horses so less horses will have to go there.


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## KendallAR

kevinshorses- "You are incredibly uninformed! Dallas Crown, Bel Tex and Cavel have been shut down for years and years thanks to fools like you." Did you not read where I said I didn't know if they were shut down? Not to mention, I think it was a little out of line for you to call me a fool, I respect your opinions so I think it's only fair that you respect mine.
"This is absolutely not true. I have worked at two different plants and been to many others and it doesn't happen. You have been lied to." I did not write that, that is an excerpt from a book. How can you say that these are lies, though? Have you been at every plant all the time? That part baffles me a bit. It's like saying, "Oh yeah Carly rides her horse every day! I was just there last Tuesday!" I'm sure that while you were gone from a plant, a worker could have experienced this.

katesrider011- I agree that we need to be more responsible on the breeding of horses.

hoofprintsinthesand- Thank you for the videos, I haven't watched them just yet but I appreciate the opposite view! I'm about to watch them now.


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## Spastic_Dove

Once again, that excerpt is showing the bad side. It is not a fair representation of the hundreds of other well run slaughter plants. The reason we don't hear about them is because they are not sensational and so don't make for good media coverage.

We are telling you that many slaughter houses practice humane slaughter and are under regulation. There are always bad apples. We have agreed with this. But that doesn't make slaughter evil or mean to say that everywhere grinds salt into animals wounds. That is just complete nonsense. Kevins point was not to say inhumane treatment never happens, but that it is not the norm.


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## Cheyennes mom

(I haven't read any of the posts)
I am in total agreement! I hate slaughter!
I love that pic at the end of the vid though! It's realy cute!!


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## Phantomcolt18

I was just talking about this topic with my friend the other day.....I used to be one of those "i hate horse slaughter, ban horse slaughter, save the pretty ponies" type of people until I learned the REAL facts(a lot from this forum). It's really the only way to control the horse population. I'm not saying I like it but it's the truth. You have a bunch of idiots out there doing backyard breeding with poorly conformed horses and unfortunately people don't want to buy the poorly conformed foals so they end up going to the first buyer who may not be a good owner and who ends up starving them or not properly caring for them or they stay at the breeders house doing nothing but taking up space. All of the rescues are full and with the economy being so bad people can't afford to just take in horses and care for them. The overpopulation problem is definately due to too much breeding. Maybe there should be breeding regulations, like you can only breed if you have a breeders license and if not have a hefty fine or allow breeding farms to only have a set number of foals a year or something like that...I know it will probably never happen but one can hope.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand

Phantomcolt18 said:


> I was just talking about this topic with my friend the other day.....I used to be one of those "i hate horse slaughter, ban horse slaughter, save the pretty ponies" type of people until I learned the REAL facts(a lot from this forum). It's really the only way to control the horse population. I'm not saying I like it but it's the truth. You have a bunch of idiots out there doing backyard breeding with poorly conformed horses and unfortunately people don't want to buy the poorly conformed foals so they end up going to the first buyer who may not be a good owner and who ends up starving them or not properly caring for them or they stay at the breeders house doing nothing but taking up space. All of the rescues are full and with the economy being so bad people can't afford to just take in horses and care for them. The overpopulation problem is definately due to too much breeding. Maybe there should be breeding regulations, like you can only breed if you have a breeders license and if not have a hefty fine or allow breeding farms to only have a set number of foals a year or something like that...I know it will probably never happen but one can hope.


110% agreed! To all of you out there who want to help solve the over population problems...don't buy from the breeders we're referring to, go rescue a horse instead  You'll certainly be helping for sure then! I rescued my mare and she's turned into the best horse EVER!


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## Katesrider011

^^I'm 17 so I cant yet, but that's what I'm doing when I get on my own too. Rescue horses do make good horses.


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## beau159

Katesrider011 said:


> Beau159: I didn't say I could do anything much about it, that's just what I don't like about it.


Sorry, I didn't intend the question to be pinning you directly for a specific answer ... it was more of a rhetorical question to everyone about the whole issue/topic.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand

Katesrider011 said:


> ^^I'm 17 so I cant yet, but *that's what I'm doing when I get on my own too.* Rescue horses do make good horses.


Good for you  It's very rewarding I can tell you that from personal experience! Usually more work, depending on the training your rescue has had (not much in my mare's case!) :lol: But it's so neat to see how far they've come and to know that you saved them from what could have been a terrible death.


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## Katesrider011

Yeah I know what ya mean! It'd prolly be a good idea for me to get to know horse trainers when I'm older too, so maybe I'll get a discount on training them ;-) if not I'll just learn to train em myself.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand

Katesrider011 said:


> Yeah I know what ya mean! It'd prolly be a good idea for me to get to know horse trainers when I'm older too, so maybe I'll get a discount on training them ;-) if not I'll just learn to train em myself.


yes, a trainer is always a VERY good idea and well worth the investment...I don't know where I would have gotten with my mare without one!


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## Katesrider011

My mare is scared of the bit cause of my trainer also, so a Good trainer is a good investment. He yanked it out of her mouth apparently. But she knows the basics, and we took her to another trainer who did a much better job with her. She's just got bad transitions.


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## sarahver

Just checking to see if there are any new information/arguments regarding horse slaughter - nope.

OP I understand your sentiment, no one wants to see horses slaughtered, abused, neglected or really anything bad happen to them, after all we are all horse lovers right? I know I am. However I do support horse slaughter for all the reasons listed previously by others.

If you want to campaign against horse slaughter, you really have to attack the root of the problem, the slaughterhouses are not the _cause, _they are just one solution to the real problem - there are TOO MANY HORSES WITH NOWHERE TO GO.

Instead, you could campaign for greater breeding restrictions, here is some food for thought:
An assessment of wastage in Thoroughbred racing from conception to 4 years of age - JEFFCOTT - 2010 - Equine Veterinary Journal - Wiley Online Library
Personally I think the racing industry has a lot to answer for when it comes to the current overpopulation of horses in the world. Backyard breeders also contribute but they don't produce the sheer volume of horses that the racing industry does. Many racehorses never even make it to the track, and many of those that do can't run fast enough to scatter their own sh*t, hence are not successful as racehorses. The odds of breeding a winning racehorse are exceedingly slim, yet the industry crunches on.

Horse slaughter is really a band aid that somewhat masks the true underlying problem, taking slaughter away magnifies the existing crisis.

So, if this is a cause that you feel strongly about, great! But there are more productive ways to solve the current situation than blaming the slaughterhouses. In my opinion, many horses should never have to need to go there in the first place, THAT is the crux of the issue.


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## Katesrider011

^^Exactly. Horse forum has changed my views of it recently. Like people say they need to get rid of the Need for slaughter and not the slaughterhouse itself.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand

Hit the nail right on the head Sarahver!


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## KendallAR

Great post, sarahver! I agree completely. I doubt I'll be doing any 'campaigning' on the issue anytime soon, as I'm just a 17 year old hoping for an educated discussion.. Which I got! You all are very educated and I feel like I've learned a lot..!


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## sarahver

KendallAR said:


> Great post, sarahver! I agree completely. I doubt I'll be doing any 'campaigning' on the issue anytime soon, as I'm just a 17 year old hoping for an educated discussion.. Which I got! You all are very educated and I feel like I've learned a lot..!


Hey, if I could think of a productive way to campain against the relentless breeding of second rate thoroughbreds believe me I would be the first to volunteer my time. Unfortunately it is a complicated issue and the industry is controlled by some very powerful governing bodies - not an easy task to take on.

The racing industry is something that really riles me, in fact I will probably start a thread on the very subject some time soon when I can put my thoughts into a succinct but effective message and I would be interested to hear all opinions and thoughts.


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## Crossover

sarahver said:


> Instead, you could campaign for greater breeding restrictions, here is some food for thought:
> An assessment of wastage in Thoroughbred racing from conception to 4 years of age - JEFFCOTT - 2010 - Equine Veterinary Journal - Wiley Online Library
> Personally I think the racing industry has a lot to answer for when it comes to the current overpopulation of horses in the world. Backyard breeders also contribute but they don't produce the sheer volume of horses that the racing industry does. Many racehorses never even make it to the track, and many of those that do can't run fast enough to scatter their own sh*t, hence are not successful as racehorses. The odds of breeding a winning racehorse are exceedingly slim, yet the industry crunches on.


Not that I don't agree the racing industry needs to change, however, I'm always surprised when everyone is attacking the TB's when thier registration numbers are a fraction of the QH registered foals or the Arabians. There are a lot of "foal mills" I guess you could call them. Yes there are people breeding horse mutts but I think a lot more of the excess horses are coming from "foal mills" of registered stock. This goes for all breeds. 

I personally don't like slaughter. Do I think we should have it, right now yes. I think it should be regulated to the hilt in concern and care of the horse and making sure someones favorite pet that was removed from the pasture doesn't end up there. I love every one of my mares. The mares that stay here and give good foals will have a retirement pasture for them to live out thier days. I do think that a lifetime of hard work and doing whats asked of them deserves more than just a pat on the neck and a ride on a truck. I'm sorry for the ones that have been ruined by abuse and neglect, maybe a quick ending would actually be a relief rather than living years being labeled and punished until to tired, broken, or old to fight back. 

Life is always a compromise, I don't have to like it, but I do have to live it.


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## Katesrider011

I don't think anybody really likes slaughter. Everyone would rather it be gone. But sadly it's needed cause of people who are ignorant and aren't responsible with horses. I saw some skinny *** horses where I live a few months ago and a week after I saw a foal, and I couldn't help, but think they let those horses have a kid? The horses can barely care for themselves in their condition and you let them have a kid. I dunno if it was their kid I'm just assuming it was because the foal looked just like em. I was gonna call the humane society, if that even would have done any good. But when I went back over there the horses weren't there anymore. I really hope they were rescued... But I dunno and never will I guess. But I'd agree they'd be better off killed than living with someone who starves em to death.


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## sarahver

Just made the thread on the racing industry! Crossover, don't forget that there is a very active QH and Arabian racing industry also.


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## lacyloo

My avatar- POA pony was rescued out of a kill pen. Why did she end up there? Because she didn't match the breed requirements for showing so she was tossed out to a auction like garbage. I do not like horse slaughter but its just one of those things that has to be done, especially at times like these. Breeders are looking for one thing and when a horse doesn't reach that, the horses pay the ultimate price.


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## Katesrider011

And death is an inevitable event. It's gonna happen to anything some time or another. Humans just fear it and that's why it looks so terrible.


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## Buckcherry

The sad thing is there are always going to be people who do it regardless of laws. I mean if i say I'm against horse slaughter that would kind of be hypocritical because I eat beef and chicken. But i do believe that in some states it is legal to eat your horses if you want but not ok to sell the meat. What i disagree with is some of the slaughter houses steel people horses or even break into their property and slaughter them and leave there carcus behind. I think if people are going to participate in horse slaughter they can at least do it in a humane way so the horse doesn't suffer. Its a tough one because not everyone sees eye to eye some people just see them as meat like cows. Its sad but its reality.


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## Starryeyed

The problem isnt horse slaughter, its horse overpopulation and overbreeding.


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## Azale1

I lean both ways. Horse prices suffered due to Slaughter becoming illegal in the US. And now even more because of the economy. And there are too many now being starved let loose to fend for themselves and the shelters are overflowing. So in that sense I think that we do need slaughter to an extent (although I still don't like it). But at the same time I think that it needs to be done in as much of a humane way as possible.

And I think that breeding needs to be more regulated with not just horses but cats and dogs too. Yes I realize that prices would probably go up just a little bit. But there are just too many people doing backyard breeding just cause they think it would be cute to have a foal around. But never thinking what they will do with that foal when they get older. Horses should be bred for quality and conformation, there are just too many fuglies going around.

So yes I think that should bring back slaughter but have it HUMANE and REGULATED.


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## Ladytrails

I would prefer that there were no unwanted horses in the US, and that all horse owners were educated and responsible. 

Rather than anti-slaughter laws, I would almost rather see laws requiring horse owners to pass a test - like a driving test before you can drive a car. Anyone can buy a pretty horse, even if they think it can be treated like their pet puppy. We see it all the time on the internet; people buying horses and then asking what they eat. Arghhh. 

Someone said here that slaughter is a horrible death - I would say that a humane slaughter is always preferable to a horrible LIFE. Some of the rescue horses have unspeakable horrible lives and the Human Society of the US (HSUS) and PETA groups - despite making headlines - do not fund rescue centers. (HSUS gives rescue groups a discount on HSUS products, though, isn't that nice.) They spend money to change laws and to prosecute horse owners but they do not contribute money for the rescues or the horses' welfare. After the US slaughterhouses closed, all those unwanted horses got shipped far away to Canada or Mexico. As a horse, I'd prefer to go on a shorter trip to a humanely administered death with US humane laws protecting my safety and comfort, than a long trip through Mexico. So, by being anti-slaughter, those folks have not solved the problem of unwanted horses or excessive breeding...instead they have guaranteed a more inhumane end of life for those unfortunate horses.


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## Katesrider011

^^And I don't know if it's true or not, but I've heard Mexico is not very regulated, At. All.


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## Ladytrails

Kate, you're right and thanks for clarying that - that was a point that I didn't make very well.


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## Phantomstallion

My brother says that the pictures are funny and that it is a bad idea to stop horse slaughter, whenever I say a horse lookes good He says it should go to the slaughter house. I totally disagree with him


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## Spastic_Dove

Yes, Mexico has no real regulation and the occurrences of bad slaughter houses vs good are much higher than we had here when we had ours open. 

I honestly can say I don't know much about Canadian slaughter. Though, I imagine it would be about the same as US slaughter was if I took a guess.


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## Katesrider011

I think Canada is regulated as well, like the video says it's just stressed right now.


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## Spastic_Dove

Oh im sure it's regulated. But Im not familiar with their governing bodies and don't have first hand experience there. 

All the more reason to re-open our slaughter houses.


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## Katesrider011

Yes, although I hate hate hate slaughter, but I hate irresponsible breeders even more


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## Spastic_Dove

I don't hate slaughter. I love horses and I hate to see it happen to them. But I think we should have it and we should use it beneficially. 

Irresponsible breeders and horse owners I have a serious loathing for though. Even if we took them out of the equation, slaughter would still exist. IMO though, it would be much better off.


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## Katesrider011

yeah it'd still exist there's always the demand for meat.


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## Khorselover

I am AGAINST HORSE SLAUGHTER! Anybody who loves horses should be. HOW can people PUT UP WITH THIS?!?!?!? Humane or not, it shouldn't be allowed! I know it is illegal, but we need to reinforce this!!!!!!!!!


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## Katesrider011

What people should enforce is a stricter law against cruelty to animals, slaughter isn't cruel, it's quick.


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## Katesrider011

And I'm not against slaughter, but to say we don't love horses cause we are for it is ridiculous. I love my horse more than anything, I freak out at the slightest little thing bad that happens to her. Sorry for the double post.


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## Phantomstallion

Totally agree Khorselover!! 



> I am AGAINST HORSE SLAUGHTER! Anybody who loves horses should be. HOW can people PUT UP WITH THIS?!?!?!? Humane or not, it shouldn't be allowed! I know it is illegal, but we need to reinforce this!!!!!!!!!


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## Katesrider011

^^That's fine that yall are against it, but please Think about it if yall ever try shutting down all the plants, think of what's gonna happen to all the horses that don't get homes cause they were saved from certain death at slaughter. They are gonna starve because the rescue sights won't know what to do with them nor have the money to pay for em all, and they have to sign all kinds of things to be able to euthanize them. As hard as it would be to choose, I think the horse would choose slaughter over Starvation.


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## kevinshorses

Khorselover said:


> I am AGAINST HORSE SLAUGHTER! Anybody who loves horses should be. HOW can people PUT UP WITH THIS?!?!?!? Humane or not, it shouldn't be allowed! I know it is illegal, but we need to reinforce this!!!!!!!!!


Why don't you just worry about your horses and let everyone else worry about thiers? It shouldn't be illegal because my horses are my personal PROPERTY. I paid money for them and I own them so I should be able to do what I want with them.


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## Katesrider011

kevinshorses said:


> Why don't you just worry about your horses and let everyone else worry about thiers? It shouldn't be illegal because my horses are my personal PROPERTY. I paid money for them and I own them so I should be able to do what I want with them.


Exactly, and it's not like all owners send their horses to slaughter anyway. The U.S. is mostly cow and pig and such, those are the animals typically raised for slaughter, not always, but usually. Cause horses aren't as typically cheap like cows and such. That's why horse meat is considered a delicacy I think. (Correct me if I'm wrong)


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## Speed Racer

Khorselover said:


> I know it is illegal, but we need to reinforce this!!!!!!!!!


Incorrect. Equine slaughter is NOT illegal in the U.S. It's only been banned in several states, one of which is California. That means at least 47 to 48 of the U.S. states still allow it.

Why can't you anti-slaughter folks seem to get that fact straight? 

The SALE of horse meat for human consumption is banned in the U.S., not slaughter itself. If I so choose, I could have my own processed for meat. I could give the meat away, but not sell it.

I agree with Kevin. What I choose to do with my own horses is none of your business. Just because YOU think of horses as pets doesn't mean everyone does, nor do they have to.

Katesrider, horse meat is not considered a delicacy. Many horses are raised as meat animals in Europe, and it's no more expensive than any other cut of meat. That's another fallacy the anti groups put out.

For all of you tearing out your hair and rending your garments over equine slaughter, do you eat meat of any kind? If you do, then shame on you for picking horses out as being 'better' and 'more worthy' than cattle, pigs, fish, sheep, goats, chickens, turkeys, etc.


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## Katesrider011

Even still though if slaughter houses were built back in the usa I don't think the number of horses being slaughtered will increase by much, it'll stay the same steady amount. So I don't think slaughter is anything to freak out over.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand

Bottom line...slaughter's not going away, so they need to open them back up here in the U.S. and then put very strict regulations on them and the travel TO them to ensure the horses are being treated humanely. Right now, that's not happening since they're being shipped to the not-so-regulated slaughter houses in Mexico and the overflowing slaughter houses in Canada.


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