# What paint pattern is my mare??



## CotyOs (Apr 10, 2014)

I have a 12 year old mare that is not registered and has unknown parents, but have always assumed she is a tobiano black and white, but i ran genetic testing and her tests came back negative, not a carrier at all! (nn for tobiano) So question for all the paint horse coat pattern experts out there, any suggestions as to what she may be? Maybe an overo but her face is normal markings and no blue eyes. She is a paint warmblood cross, unsure exactly what the warmblood entails, so that is a mystery. But i would like to breed her but hoping to get a pinto coat foal too. Some input would be greatly appreciated.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Frame is almost certainly present in this mare, which means before you breed her, you need to test her for Lethal White Overo.

I suspect she has splashed white as well, there is a test available for this too.


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## CotyOs (Apr 10, 2014)

I just added the lethal white today, so pending for now. Thanks for the input!


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## CotyOs (Apr 10, 2014)

Also i added more photos under "my horses"


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Did you test her through UC Davis for tobiano? 

It strikes me as odd that she would test negative, especially with those spots on her flank being where they are and how round they are shaped. Anomalies do happen, but I would have said tobiano in the mix because of that alone (despite other traits that would normally be tobiano-related).


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

My guess would be frame as well, possibly along with some sabino to account for the jagged edges


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## CotyOs (Apr 10, 2014)

No i used AnimalGenetics.us. She came back as a lethal white overo hetero, so she does carry the gene. My thoughts were to breed her with a friesian, aiming for a sane minded sport horse. But still undecided. Maybe I should check with uc davis to double check the tobiano at least? Also i want to add the pic of the results but unsure how.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

I would consider it. It's not a lethal gene or anything; I'm just curious about it. It would be up to you entirely. 

Do you have a digital copy of the results? If not, scan it or take a picture of it and then add it the same way you added the first picture.


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## CotyOs (Apr 10, 2014)

Poseidon said:


> I would consider it. It's not a lethal gene or anything; I'm just curious about it. It would be up to you entirely.
> 
> Do you have a digital copy of the results? If not, scan it or take a picture of it and then add it the same way you added the first picture.



I think since I'm using my phone I'm having issues with posting pics, but if you click on my "horses" tab and look at lily i did figure out how to add the results to her photos.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Strawberry4Me (Sep 13, 2012)

I just want to say that I think she is really cool looking. I like paints, but she is super neat looking. 

I don't know anything about genetics, though. Be careful breeding her if she has lethal white- that's all I know.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Strawberry4Me said:


> I just want to say that I think she is really cool looking. I like paints, but she is super neat looking.
> 
> I don't know anything about genetics, though. Be careful breeding her if she has lethal white- that's all I know.


Lethal white isn't actually a difficult thing to avoid. If your horse tests positive (or is just obvious based on appearance) for frame overo, you just cannot breed to another N/O horse. Lethal White Overo Syndrome is an O/O horse (homozygous frame). N/O is completely fine.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Based off this one picture, I'm not surprised she didn't test positive for tobiano. The white isn't crossing over the spine behind the saddle pad and there doesn't appear to be any white in the tail, either. If she has white crossing the spine where the saddle pad is, then I can definitely understand the confusion, but I can't tell from this picture 

To me she looks frame (which you've already confirmed) and sabino.

Remember that the other key to preventing a lethal white foal is making sure the stallion is tested negative for it as well. If the stallion is of a breed that carries it, don't take the owner's word for it: demand test results. Friesians don't carry frame to my knowledge, so that would be a safe breeding.


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## sparks879 (Apr 14, 2013)

her official color pattern is over, the white does not cross over her back. She probably also caries splash, as she has the white markings on her face.


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## CotyOs (Apr 10, 2014)

Yep, i'm sold on the frame overo, and maybe a little somethin' else. Thanks for the input everyone! Appreciate it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

verona1016 said:


> Based off this one picture, I'm not surprised she didn't test positive for tobiano. *The white isn't crossing over the spine behind the saddle pad and there doesn't appear to be any white in the tail, either. *If she has white crossing the spine where the saddle pad is, then I can definitely understand the confusion, but I can't tell from this picture
> 
> To me she looks frame (which you've already confirmed) and sabino.
> 
> Remember that the other key to preventing a lethal white foal is making sure the stallion is tested negative for it as well. If the stallion is of a breed that carries it, don't take the owner's word for it: demand test results. Friesians don't carry frame to my knowledge, so that would be a safe breeding.


Not always the case. This guy is tested homozygous for Tobiano, name is Tru One Ina Million:


















Honestly I would have guessed tobiano was there as well. The way the spot is forming around her flank made me think that. Very weird. Obviously something else is at play other than just frame because frame doesn't like leg white.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Bridgertrot said:


> Not always the case. This guy is tested homozygous for Tobiano, name is Tru One Ina Million:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I realize (and should probably have mentioned) that tobiano can certainly appear without crossing the spine or adding white in the tail, but that's the exception, rather than the rule. If you look hard enough, you can find tested tobiano-positive horses than have even less white than Tru One Ina Million. Ultimately with any pinto pattern, you can only guess by looking at them; genetic testing is always needed to know for certain. (And of course, there aren't genetic tests available for all patterns, so sometimes you never really have a certain answer.)


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