# How should a bosal fit?



## nobody2121 (Sep 6, 2010)

Beling said:


> Coming off from another thread...
> 
> I've used a bosal to start 2 youngsters, and thought of it as sort of "one size fits all" -- like a stiff halter-- which is probably why I didn't stick with it for too long. One horse I kept in it for a year at least; the other for only a short time, because she liked to wad food in her cheek, which made a lump, which was uncomfortable with the bosal.
> 
> So how IS it supposed to fit? Does anyone think the bitless "pull alongs" and similar tack is an improvement over what is, I guess, pretty old-fashioned tack?


should be just above the nostrils(the bone) so thy air easy, Buttons on the sides should just touch, 2 fingers from the button to the jaw


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

Although what Mr.nobody says is generally true the subtleties to the Bosal are many and the adjustment is for the horse you are riding and the training level of that horse.

An example of different setups would be the diameter and flatness of the nose piece,
The length of the Bosal.
The diameter of the lower part of the Bosal.
The size and weight of the heel knot.
The diameter and weave of the macate reins.
The coarseness of the weave of the rawhide on the different parts of the Bosal.
The material used other than rawhide.

Bosals have lost favor in the modern world because there was so much to know about them.

They are very,very old in design.

There advantage was that before the days of dentistry the horse could be ridden and the mouth that the Spanish revered could also be protected.

Many people that I know will set up a coarser Bosal with more slack to it for the first rides to create more "Bump" and "Release" with the horse that is getting use to the Hackamore.

Later after the cues are refined some the setup is changed.

It is a wonderful training tool and one of the original bit-less setups.

The National Reined Cow Horse Association keeps the tradition alive by offering competition between horses that are ridden in a legal Hackamore.


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## Beling (Nov 3, 2009)

Marecare said:


> Many people that I know will set up a coarser Bosal with more slack to it for the first rides to create more "Bump" and "Release" with the horse that is getting use to the Hackamore.


Yes, that's what I did. I originally got it (fairly cheap) from the local feed store-- where one got lots of advice as well as feed-- and the "Bump" and "release" is really quite nice, so VERY simple to understand, very confidence-building. I liked the neck rope, too, which came into play if there was any bucking-thoughts going on. Obviously, we didn't get into subtle reining!

I think the newer-style side-pull type bitless bridles wouldn't be so "simple." Depend more on the rider's skills?


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

Beling said:


> Yes, that's what I did. I originally got it (fairly cheap) from the local feed store-- where one got lots of advice as well as feed-- and the "Bump" and "release" is really quite nice, so VERY simple to understand, very confidence-building. I liked the neck rope, too, which came into play if there was any bucking-thoughts going on. Obviously, we didn't get into subtle reining!
> 
> I think the newer-style side-pull type bitless bridles wouldn't be so "simple." Depend more on the rider's skills?



Much of it depends on the horse and their comfort level around their head and face.

Later as the Hackamore is more familiar to them the bump becomes less then a nudge and the cue is refined to a very high level.

It is really fun to see what the horse is willing to do for you in this kind of head gear.

Some horses will get very soft in a Hackamore.


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## nobody2121 (Sep 6, 2010)

Quick note: I like to start with a softer Bosal(have a Latigo one I really like), and gradually move to stiffer one.


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

nobody2121 said:


> Quick note: I like to start with a softer Bosal(have a Latigo one I really like), and gradually move to stiffer one.


Quick note: I do it the other way around.


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## nobody2121 (Sep 6, 2010)

Marecare said:


> Quick note: I do it the other way around.


what is your reasoning, just a question not a bash, sincere,
Lay down your guns


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

nobody2121 said:


> what is your reasoning, just a question not a bash, sincere,
> Lay down your guns



In most cases the "Cue" or "Signal" starts out with more and proceeds to less as understanding is built.

This is all very subjective in nature and the amount is always a part of the "Read" of the situation.

The horse must "Feel" the cue and then lighten the cue to the level that is desired by the handler.

The challenge is to read where to start and know where you want to end.

This is a fundamental problem with much training as the handler puts some form of pressure on the horse and it is not enough so he "UPS" the pressure until the desired result is achieved.

The "UPPING" of the cue becomes the norm and before you know it you are always adding to get the result instead of subtracting.

I always want to get more with less....(Tom Dorrance).


My guns are still loaded.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

nobody2121 said:


> what is your reasoning, just a question not a bash, sincere,
> Lay down your guns


And yours???? Same thing inquiring minds want to know.


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## nobody2121 (Sep 6, 2010)

nrhareiner said:


> And yours???? Same thing inquiring minds want to know.


for me I want to(repaet I want to) start with less than work my way up if needed, as little as it takes.
same as a bit, my thinking I dont start with a spade. 
Just curious, it has worked for me.
and I got it from others, if I use names I am getting beat up littlle. so no more!
Thank you,

what do you do? yourself use one? serious?


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

No I am not a bosal person. Start with a snaffle and once they are working in that they move into the bridle. NRHA has no snaffle or Hack/bosal classes for the most part. So there is no reason to use one.

When I have used them way in the past and also with just about everyone I know who does use them if they show the NRCHA futurity. They start in the snaffle and the Bosal is a middle ground then into the bridle as the horse ages and experience expands. They are not started in one.


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## nobody2121 (Sep 6, 2010)

nrhareiner said:


> No I am not a bosal person. Start with a snaffle and once they are working in that they move into the bridle. NRHA has no snaffle or Hack/bosal classes for the most part. So there is no reason to use one.
> 
> When I have used them way in the past and also with just about everyone I know who does use them if they show the NRCHA futurity. They start in the snaffle and the Bosal is a middle ground then into the bridle as the horse ages and experience expands. They are not started in one.


i have shown Nrcha and maybe it is a little different, I know they need to be really broke(for me in the snaffle), before I go to the Hackamore


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

nobody2121 said:


> i have shown Nrcha and maybe it is a little different, I know they need to be really broke(for me in the snaffle), before I go to the Hackamore


Yes I agree the Hack/Bosal is not something you start a horse in. Most when they use them are a middle ground. After the snaffle before the bridle. Some will even put the snaffle under the bosal for the transition. It is a good way to work on neck reining and such.

Yes NRCHA is different then the NRHA. At the futurity level. Every so often you will find a Futurity Class that shows in the Snaffle or Bosal your choice but they are few and fare between. The NRHA Futurity is in the bridle and one handed. So most of the smaller futurities are the same as most use them as a warm up to the big show.

Once the horse is out of the aged even in NRCHA they must be in a bridle. I do not even think if I remembering the rules correctly that past the futurities they have to be in the bridle. There are a few other difference in what is commonly used in tack between the NRCHA and the NRHA.


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## nobody2121 (Sep 6, 2010)

nrhareiner said:


> Yes I agree the Hack/Bosal is not something you start a horse in. Most when they use them are a middle ground. After the snaffle before the bridle. Some will even put the snaffle under the bosal for the transition. It is a good way to work on neck reining and such.
> 
> Yes NRCHA is different then the NRHA. At the futurity level. Every so often you will find a Futurity Class that shows in the Snaffle or Bosal your choice but they are few and fare between. The NRHA Futurity is in the bridle and one handed. So most of the smaller futurities are the same as most use them as a warm up to the big show.
> 
> Once the horse is out of the aged even in NRCHA they must be in a bridle. I do not even think if I remembering the rules correctly that past the futurities they have to be in the bridle. There are a few other difference in what is commonly used in tack between the NRCHA and the NRHA.


great points, what I meant was that showing a horse with Hackamore maybe slightly differnt than than , average ranch horse, maybe different, dont know


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

Many,Many people in my world will start a horse in a Hackamore.
They are skilled Hackamore Reinsmen and understand the pros and cons.

I do not exclusively use just the Hackamore ,but because the title of the thread was the adjustment of the Bosal I limited the discussion to that.

There is a history to the Hackamore and that is what the NRCHA is trying to keep alive.

In the very early days of the Spanish Vaquero the snaffle was not as common as it is today and most of the horses were started in the Hackamore.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

nobody2121 said:


> great points, what I meant was that showing a horse with Hackamore maybe slightly differnt than than , average ranch horse, maybe different, dont know



Oh ya there are quite a bit of difference between what you would do and how you would work a cow in a show vs if you are on a ranch.

On a ranch you do what is needed to get the cow to where you need them get the job done be it branding, banding, vaccinating, de budding them and so on. If you rope them and you do not catch them quite right big deal. You have them if needed you put anouther rope on them and so on. A lot will only heal the cow with a horse and rope.

Then you go to a show. You have a set pattern, strict rules, and so on. If you mark a horse on the ranch you are not going to get DQed from the work and loose a bunch of money. In a show you are out. Big time. 

Shows be it for reined cow horse reining or cutting even roping have evolved from ranch work. If you study the history of each event is it quite interesting. Most people do not know a lot of the history behind associations especially ones like NRHA. They only know what they see now.


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

Ok so I have a question. My mare doesn't like bits. She does well in a mechanical hackmore, but I really dont like the feel of it when I'm riding. I was told when I bought her that she was ridden in a bosal. Should I try her in one? And how do you tell a soft bosal from a harsher one?


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

Lonestar22 said:


> Ok so I have a question. My mare doesn't like bits. She does well in a mechanical hackmore, but I really dont like the feel of it when I'm riding. I was told when I bought her that she was ridden in a bosal. Should I try her in one? And how do you tell a soft bosal from a harsher one?



I would give it a try and some of the things that would help me decide what one I would use would be if the horse was fine skinned or had a big fuzzy face full of hair or an narrow and fine jawline.

Some of the Bosals are very very soft and they are almost like putting on a rope halter and become ineffective because of a lack of form.

Some are cheap and hard with metal cores and are very rough and will bite at the horses jaw and rub the hair off in minutes.

Just look for comfort but also some contact.
You can add grease to the outside and also wrap the Bosal with tape or vet wrap too.


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

I found a bridle I reaaaaaalllly liked. I bought it after I inquired about their return policy and I LOVE it! My mare responds well in it and it's a beautiful bridle. I'm not sure what to call it though. It's like a cross between a bosal and a side pull. Isnt that an Indian Bosal?


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Lonestar22 said:


> I found a bridle I reaaaaaalllly liked. I bought it after I inquired about their return policy and I LOVE it! My mare responds well in it and it's a beautiful bridle. I'm not sure what to call it though. It's like a cross between a bosal and a side pull. Isnt that an Indian Bosal?


I've never heard about the cross between bosal and side pull. Indian bosal is _somewhat _(and I repeat _somewhat_) similar to the bitless bridle: the ends of the bosal cross under the jaw, so the more you pull, the tighter it goes. Is that what you have?


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Marecare said:


> Many,Many people in my world will start a horse in a Hackamore.
> They are skilled Hackamore Reinsmen and understand the pros and cons.
> 
> I do not exclusively use just the Hackamore ,but because the title of the thread was the adjustment of the Bosal I limited the discussion to that.
> ...


Years and years ago, my Dad spent some time in Cali with an old hackamore reinsman named Sid Mails (sp?) and learned how to use a bosal from him and until the mid 80's, when a snaffle started to get really popular, started all of his young'uns in a bosal. I have just started to learn how to properly use one but my training will have to be put on hold until I can get a new one.


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## nobody2121 (Sep 6, 2010)

smrobs said:


> but my training will have to be put on hold until I can get a new one.


really like Bill Black, makes a nice Bosal.


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

kitten_Val said:


> I've never heard about the cross between bosal and side pull. Indian bosal is _somewhat _(and I repeat _somewhat_) similar to the bitless bridle: the ends of the bosal cross under the jaw, so the more you pull, the tighter it goes. Is that what you have?


 
Here are some pics of the bridle.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

^^That is an excellent example of a nice, simple sidepull. I like that.


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

Ok thanks smrobs! I LOVE it. It's a really nice bridle that my mare responds well to. I love that it's simple and not bling'd out too, lol. I didn't know if it was a side pull because all the one's I've seen didn't have any rawhide on the nose. It only cost $40 too!


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