# 4 week old colt doesn't look like he is going to make it: seeking tips/advice



## Rascaholic (Oct 4, 2010)

Call the vet out to examine the colt. Let them do the treating. Hopefully it isn't to late. The vet can prescribe the needed antibiotics depending on what the colt needs. I understand you don't want to lose him, so call the vet.....


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## dee (Jul 30, 2009)

The vet needs to come out and see the little guy first hand, pronto. Sounds to me like he may have developed something more serious than an upper respiratory infection.


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## DRichmond (Mar 13, 2012)

Is there any nasal discharge? Even if there isn't, it could be pneumonia. Here is a link which may be helpful to you:

Pneumonia In Horses

I hope a vet can come out to examine him. With or without more antibiotics, I think if you can introduce some microbials into his feed and give him some extra supplements to boost his little system, he sounds like a fighter who can pull through it.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

What did you inject, who advised you to do so and has a vet actually seen this colt since birth? At this point failure to seek proper medical care qualifies as neglect imo


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## DRichmond (Mar 13, 2012)

I don't know your circumstances, and do not pass judgment regardless of what those circumstances are, which is none of my business. That you've reached out for input is very commendable to me.

I know that those on a budget (many are these days) work within their parameters and do their best for their animals with the resources available to them. 

The veterinary profession is only about 250 years old. Humans and animals have been around a little longer than that, 200 million years, I think, and managed somehow to survive. We are blessed to have such knowledge and technology available to us now, and there are still plenty of old school rural people who use time-tested remedies which are effective too. Someone who lives in the back 40 of the Dakotas, for instance, likely doesn't have the same resources available to them than someone who is only a short jaunt from from New Bolton.


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## TheresaD (Jun 1, 2012)

There is no nasal discharge nor has there been. The mare was sick for the first 2 weeks and had a lot of discharge but, she got better on her own and we attributed it to stress as she was being hauled with 20 others, was penned overnight in a strange place, gave birth, and was then hauled a few more times until she finally made it out here. But, she has been well for 2 weeks now. 

We have been trying to get a vet out to see him but, have been unsuccessful. All we have been able to get from them is that it may be upper respiratory issues (mentioned above) and another vet suggested it may be pneumonia but, since it has been so long and he was so playful until today she no longer thinks it is pneumonia. She stated that, he would be dead or better by now if it was pneumonia. 

The shots we gave him were at the suggestion of a vet and were penicillin (I should have included this in my original post).

DRichmond, thank you for the link and the positivity.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Call another vet. THis foal needs to be seen. Nothing, human, animal, whatever, should be diagnosed and treated oever the phone. And given antibiotics? Wow. This is why we have resistant strains. 

How many shots did they TELL you to give, before you "gave up because the mare is unfriendly?" You NEVER stop antibiotics until they are gone. THat means how ever many the vet says, not when you feel like it. Again-same for people. Because, what CAN happen if you stop early? The infection the penicillin was helping comes back with a vengeance.

I find it a bit hard to believe that both vets you have contacted have been so lackidasical about a sick YOUNG foal. Something is not right here, and I am not sure what it is.
Get a vet to COME OUT NOT. or, you WILL lose the colt, from the sounds of it.


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## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

I don't understand why the vet won't come out. My vet will come whenever I call what ever its for - of course I pay for that service but that's why they have it.


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## Ace80908 (Apr 21, 2011)

My parents did the "wait and worry and see" thing for a 6 month old filly they bought - she died in our yard. 

I am a firm believer in pay the emergency call (110. for my vet, Colorado) and get the foal the help it needs. You gave three shots of penicillin that may have nothing to do with the true reason he is struggling. Get him help or risk losing him.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Usually antibiotics are given for 8-10 days, so three shots for one day is not even close.
I work for vets, they always go out if asked. Have you actually asked them to come out, or just called for advice. If two vets refuse to come out to see a very sick foal, then you need to find another vet. 
I hope this baby is still alive.


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## TheresaD (Jun 1, 2012)

While I have requested that this post be removed due to the the rude replies I received I figured that I would let everyone know that he is recovering nicely. . .and all thanks to backwoods home remedies. I love my horse and colt and though I may not have a lot of money and am a bit naive, they are always, and will always be, taken care of and loved as any animal should be.

That people are so quick to judge makes me sad and I do not believe that I will ever use a horse forum again. I would, however, like to publicly thank DRichmond, the only person who provided any real suggestions.


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## HorseLovinLady (Jul 18, 2011)

I'm sorry you got rude replies and hope you will stick around. Also i'm glad your colt is ok and would like to see some pics of him when he's all better.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

You didn't get rude replies, you got honest ones. From people that gave you very good advice I might add.

While we all understand the concept of no money for the vet, we all as horseowners understand that if you can't afford vet, you don't need a horse.

And DRichmond may have been nice about this, and maybe they believe in home rememidies too, but it is more likely that member has years of dealing with horses too, and can assess whether they can treat what is wrong themselves, or if vet needs to be called.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

We are quick to judge because we have a lot of experience. I am happy you saved your foal, and 4 years on still heartbroken that I lost mine due to respiratory failure, despite all our best efforts.

Maybe I did it wrong, hell if I hadn't of had the vet to him, maybe he would of lived.

I couldn't of lived with myself if I hadn't called the vet though, because we don't live 250 years ago, we live now, and I don't want to treat myself with grannies remedies, so why would I with the horses?

I would never ever take a chance on not having a vet to a foal, I will home treat some things in older horses, I do believe we over medicate, and I believe strongly that we overuse antibiotics, and when we do use them we don't follow instructions, and that has caused us already, and will into the future cause us no end of issues.

Back to the op, you have to understand that to 99% of us, any medical situation with a foal is an emergency, they can go downhill so quickly, it isn't safe to take chances.


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## TheresaD (Jun 1, 2012)

I do use home remedies on myself so, I use them on my animals too and other than this poor little guy, we're all very healthy. And, as I said before, my pets are all well taken care of. Perhaps you are saying I should have let them slaughter the both of them instead of saving them.....if you think that would have been better for them than you have issues. And, anytime a person comes into money issues we should get rid of our pets? Hah, I thought I was the naive one!


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

TheresaD said:


> Perhaps you are saying I should have let them slaughter the both of them instead of saving them.....if you think that would have been better for them than you have issues.


Who is that barb aimed at?

Who knows maybe it would have been better for them, not now, but do you have a crystal ball, can you see 30 years into the future, who knows what will happen to the foal in time?


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## TheresaD (Jun 1, 2012)

That was in reply to the line; 

While we all understand the concept of no money for the vet, we all as horseowners understand that if you can't afford vet, you don't need a horse.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

As you have only owned this mare and colt for a month and already cannot afford vet care (after claiming vets refused to come out, I might add) yes I think the slaughter house might have been a better option. 

Glad that the little guy is coming around, but you really need to rethink this a little.


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## TheresaD (Jun 1, 2012)

And, now I am done. I will not be returning to this website. We all have losses and we all make mistakes. I do not feel that I have made one in rescuing or in my care of these two. Thank you for breaking me into the joys of an online forum. Thank you to those of you who expressed real concern and sympathy. HorseLovinLady, I appreciate your post but, I am sorry to say that I will not be posting pictures. Golden Horse, I am sorry that you had a loss affect you so. We learn from every experience. I lost my temper up there and shouldn't have and I apologize for that. A weekend of stress does that to a person.


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## Silent one (Aug 22, 2011)

You say we are quick to judge, that is because we have seen SO much of this before. Naive people who get horses and can't afford them, and the horse suffers for it.

I'm glad your foal is alive and doing well, but 2nd the good advice that, if you can't afford a vet, you don't need a horse. I've seen it too many times.

We don't mean to be harsh or cruel, we are just realistic. And after years of experience with horses, we have seen this situation to much. Person buys horse, horse gets sick, oh no, I can't afford the vet, what should I do?


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Glad to hear that the foal is well.
If the mare was stressed and delivered the foal in such circumstances she may not have had or given the foal enough colustrum to build up his immunity. Or else she may have not gotten the proper round of shots to prevent illnesses and did not have any immunity to pass to the foal.
I understand the frustration some members have with the lack of prfessional care available to the foal.
However this is a new member who is asking for advice.
The OP could in the future use the knowledge of the members this forum has to prevent further problems.
Advice given without judgement is usually heeded better than that given in a judgemental manner.
Implying that the OP is not responsible will do the foal no good and only negate the good advice members have posted. Perhaps we need to remember the foal is the purpose of the thread. 
To the OP good luck. This forum is full of sound advice and people that care about all horses. Your foal included. Shalom


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## TimberRidgeRanch (Mar 6, 2012)

I think what it is with alot of us horse owners is we see so many coming on here with tradgic cases and never a mention of a vet or being told a vet wont come. and in most cases its people looking for attention. 
Not saying that this is the case but in most cases that is what it is.
I cannot see how a vet refuses to go to a call unless its to a person who does not pay their bills. I cannot see how any good vet will diagnose a case over the phone. If vets could do that they would never leave home.
Im glad the foal is doing better. and Im sorry you got honest Not what you wanted to hear opinions. Im tired of the lets play the "Im going to lie to please anyone" game. Sorry JMHO

TRR


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## Silent one (Aug 22, 2011)

dbarabians said:


> Glad to hear that the foal is well.
> If the mare was stressed and delivered the foal in such circumstances she may not have had or given the foal enough colustrum to build up his immunity. Or else she may have not gotten the proper round of shots to prevent illnesses and did not have any immunity to pass to the foal.
> I understand the frustration some members have with the lack of prfessional care available to the foal.
> However this is a new member who is asking for advice.
> ...


Wow. So the best we can do is sugar coat the issue and not tell the owner what she doesn't want to hear, that she needs the help of a professional, and then go research home remedies that probably are ineffective to help a foal who possibly is dying?

Telling the owner that she needs a vet and, if she cannot afford one, she doesn't need the horse, is realism. Not judgement. I have friends right now who were a little peeved at me but now grateful, because I told them they could not afford a "horsey" for their grandchild, no matter how she cried for one. Instead, they are letting her spend time with mine until the time they can afford one, vet and all.

Should I, instead, have let them plunge in? Well, I am plain-spoken and just call it like it is. Sorry.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

I do not bite my own tongue and say what I please.
As a mental health professional I do understand that to get my point across I sometimes must frame my advice so the receiver will be more inclined to heed it. everyone is not as emotionally secure to handle blunt advice .
Questioning the avaialbity of professional care or even the OPs ability to care for the animals does this foal no good.
It is not what was said that is the problem.  Neither is the messenger.
My point is this the OP could use the knowledge of the members of this forum to improve the lives of the animals in their care.
Suggestions may have more power to improve the foals care than criticism.
Shalom


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## Silent one (Aug 22, 2011)

dbarabians, that is true and point taken. However, I suspect that someone who is not willing to face harsh truths on an on-line forum is not likely to be able to face them in real life situations. So I have my doubts whether this person would take any advice from anyone but those that agree with her anyway.


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## Annanoel (Mar 29, 2011)

Like Sky says on here and I totally agree, "Don't make me shout, when in doubt get the vet out!" Although some posts did come off rude everyone is worried and many of us have not only in our horse-filled lives but also on here seen this happen. They vet should be called. Backyard remedies are helpful, but they're not the answer in a lot of cases. If your horse and colt happen to have an emergency they will need a vet! I don't think the poster that said if you don't have the money you shouldn't own a horse meant it in a rude way BUT it makes sense. Horses ARE expensive and they take a lot of blood, sweat and tears. Joy comes with it as well. I don't think anyone was trying to be rude just HONEST. It is a forum and you will have other people's advice. Again, sorry. JMHO.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I think the question of affording vet care is a real concern for many of us, I know that I worry about unknown costs like that, as I just don't have spare money hanging around for a colic surgery or alike. However there are some things that you should just expect to have a vet out for - I think foaling is one of them. 

I don't think that's terribly harsh, or unkind. 

To the OP, you will find that there are lots of opinions here, I believe that's actually why you originally posted as you wanted advise. Sometimes they will not fit with your own ideas, that doesn't make them wrong or a reason to leave.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Sorry if you thought we were rude, but the truth is hard to hear sometimes. The fact remains that you should NOT give antibiotics willy nilly and never ever give them in any way other than as the vet(or MD) prescribes. I would also caution you that your homeopathic remedies may not always have the same effect on an animal as a human. If you want to try them, fine, but be open and objective as to whether or not they are working. You always have to be prepared to get proper medical care, and you may have to start a fund for just such things. If there is a way to get hurt, horses will find it.

Good luck, glad your baby is better.


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## Rascaholic (Oct 4, 2010)

Actually I thought this thread rather tame. As I was one of the first ones who posted I'll take for granted my post was rude. Ok. It still doesn't change the fact that a foal in any kind of distress is an emergency situation. 

I was taught any baby emergency calls for the fastest, most professional, and knowledgeable opinion and treatment option you can get! I was sincere in the wish that it wasn't to late for the foal in question. I was sincere in my advice to seek veterinary treatment. I was sincere in my hope that you honestly did not want to lose the foal and would do what was needed to insure its health and well being.

If you take offense that easily with the answers/advice you were given then you are correct, public forums are not the place for you to seek medical advice about your animal.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Rascaholic said:


> I was taught any baby emergency calls for the fastest, most professional, and knowledgeable opinion and treatment option you can get!


Yup, what is a minor worry or a wait and see in an adult, can be a potential killer for a baby, universally true across most species.


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## Livvyx (Jun 3, 2012)

AlexS said:


> As you have only owned this mare and colt for a month and already cannot afford vet care (after claiming vets refused to come out, I might add) yes I think the slaughter house might have been a better option.
> 
> Glad that the little guy is coming around, but you really need to rethink this a little.


That was so rude. I don't know if all Americans think horses are better off slaughtered than saved, but we certainly dont think so in England.


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## Lakotababii (Nov 28, 2010)

Livvyx said:


> That was so rude. I don't know if all Americans think horses are better off slaughtered than saved, but we certainly dont think so in England.



Saying ALL Americans and speaking for ALL Englishmen is kind of, um, naive don't you think?

We all have differing opinions. However, the point Alex was trying to make is that, if sent to slaughter, the horse is killed and released of pain. It's over for them. If they are "rescued" by someone who doesn't know what they are doing, they suffer for long periods of time and THEN die. Not glamorous.

I do not believe Alex was saying this is true of ALL rescues. When done properly, the vet bills taken into account and the proper care given, rescue is a beautiful thing. Of course. But when done flippantly, or without proper thought given to the COSTS, these "rescues" can do a LOT more harm than good.

In the future, try not to think of it as an All or Nothing situation. There are varying degrees of rescues, how good they are or how bad they are. Just like everything else in this world. Rarely ever is there black and white.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Livvyx said:


> That was so rude. I don't know if all Americans think horses are better off slaughtered than saved, but we certainly dont think so in England.


The truth is not always attractive, and just because it is not, don;t misconstrue it for "rude".
Perhaps you don't have the oversupply there that we have here. Would you rather they starve? What would be your suggestion? I am not trying to start the whole slaughter debate here, but really. And-please don't generalize and say "ALL Americans"....anything. It would be like me saying ALL Brits.......etc. :evil:


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## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

I really don't think any of you Guys were rude, just being honest...

All of us on here have seen WAY too much of this go on around here. -new first time horse owner buys horse, horse gets sick, goes lame, etc. and they are on here asking for our advise. We give them ours which is usually 'get a vet out' and then the excuses start flowing. 'vet won't come out, hes on vacation, I tried calling several vets with no answeres' :rolls eyes: 

Bottom line. I have never heard a vet tell anyone that they are not coming out and just tell you to do the shots yourself. Horse owning is certainly not cheap and as AlexS said we all worry about huge expenses that may pop up. But With something as little as this, I'm sorry to say that you shouldn't own a horse at this point. The foals vet care is so small of an expense in the big picture..

And Livvxy AlexS was not being rude anywhere in her post. Over here in the US we have a huge problem with slaughter. People go to the auctions and buy the horses on death row and think they're helping them out by 'saving them'. But when said horse gets sick they don't know what to do and can't afford vet care. So in the long run the horse would go through alot less suffering if he just went to slaughter rather then being deathly ill while this person cat afford the proper vet care, food, etc that it needs. Even though both would be considered suffering its alot less so to just send the horse through slaughter then let it wait out its days and die because of some niave person. 

/rant
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Vets seem to want to play the "wait and see" game. I need one rather promply as my horse was down and in trouble. Called the vet. Got the wait and see line. Called a horse friend and she told me to be more forthright. I was. I called the vet and Told him to get his F....g *** out here right now. He was here within 40 min, not bad considering the 25 min drive. Horse was treated and made a full recovery. When a vet has a mixed practise of large and small animal, there's more money in the pets that come to the clinic that a road trip.


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## Lakotababii (Nov 28, 2010)

Saddlebag said:


> Vets seem to want to play the "wait and see" game. I need one rather promply as my horse was down and in trouble. Called the vet. Got the wait and see line. Called a horse friend and she told me to be more forthright. I was. I called the vet and Told him to get his F....g *** out here right now. He was here within 40 min, not bad considering the 25 min drive. Horse was treated and made a full recovery. When a vet has a mixed practise of large and small animal, there's more money in the pets that come to the clinic that a road trip.



That's a lazy vet right there. My vet comes when I call him because that's his JOB. The "wait and see" thing is bull crap. If I was a vet, why wouldn't I go out and take a look? I would be getting paid for it right? I just do not understand those vets who wait and see, when it is their job to come take care of my animals, and I am paying them good money to do it. That's why if I get that from my vet, he won't be my vet for long. Granted there are times when I call them for advice, or to ask if they think they should come out, but good lord a horse is down and he told you to wait and see?


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## Livvyx (Jun 3, 2012)

Which is exactly why I said I don't know if all are, I did not say all Americans think that? I agree horses need vet care, but to say to someone there horse was better off sent to a slaughter house, that is rude and disrespectful. Some people don't believe in vets at all, no I dont wish to go in to that debate but don't think it's something to support.


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## LetAGrlShowU (Mar 25, 2009)

I cant believe the OP got offended like a child and ran away when everyone was giving very real and accurate advice. Horses are expensive. I am sick of people thinking they are cheap. IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD VET CARE- YOU SHOULD NOT OWN A HORSE. It really is that plain and simple.


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## Livvyx (Jun 3, 2012)

Also, to the op do you not having pet Insurance in America?


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Livvyx said:


> That was so rude. I don't know if all Americans think horses are better off slaughtered than saved, but we certainly don't think so in England.


AlexS is a Brit, by the way. :rofl:

England has their slaughter houses as well, so I hardly think your use of 'we' includes all of Britain. :wink:

_Genuine_ concern for the foal is what made most folks answer the way they did. If the OP believes she 'rescued' these horses yet can't get them the proper medical care, they may have been better off going to slaughter. 

I also find it_ highly_ unlikely that the foal was supposedly at death's door not more than 24 hours ago, yet has now been miraculously cured by some homeopathic hoo-haw administered by the OP.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

This post isn't directed at anyone, it is a general "just saying" post..

When we bought our first horses in Canada, they came from an auction, both pregnant. Did I rescue them, no, they were both in great condition, did I outbid the meat man, well yup, sure did. 

The first thing I did when I got them home was to call the local vet and organize a routine visit, this made sure he knew me, my horses and most importantly how to find me.

Over the last few years we have built up a great relationship, I consult him by phone often, drop into the surgery to ask questions sometimes, make sure I buy my meds through him, just generally have a good relationship. He knows when to come here, when to suggest I go to him, and when to go for wait and see, that is because we trust each others judgment, he knows I'm not prone to panic and call him if not needed, and that I can accurately relay what is happening here.

Do I always pay on time, nope, we are farmers, come July/August we tend to be living on fumes, all our money is invested in the crop, so a colic scare just can't be covered, does he get paid something every month until it is cleared, hell yes. When we sell grain I tend to bank a little with him as well, future proofing, when you have horses you will have bills, that's for sure.


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## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

TheresaD said:


> And, now I am done. I will not be returning to this website. We all have losses and we all make mistakes. I do not feel that I have made one in rescuing or in my care of these two. Thank you for breaking me into the joys of an online forum. Thank you to those of you who expressed real concern and sympathy. HorseLovinLady, I appreciate your post but, I am sorry to say that I will not be posting pictures. Golden Horse, I am sorry that you had a loss affect you so. We learn from every experience. I lost my temper up there and shouldn't have and I apologize for that. A weekend of stress does that to a person.


 I'd try to contact Barb from barbswellness.com she might point you in the right direction...


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

Saddlebag said:


> Vets seem to want to play the "wait and see" game. I need one rather promply as my horse was down and in trouble. Called the vet. Got the wait and see line. Called a horse friend and she told me to be more forthright. I was. I called the vet and Told him to get his F....g *** out here right now.


If I EVER had to tell my Vet that, I would be finding a new Vet. 

I've had a couple emergencies and the response is always the same, "You still at XXX address?" "Ok, heading there now, see you in a few...". 

I've also gotten the call of "I'm coming to see your sick cow but it's gonna be a couple hours, an Alpaca just lost a fight with a fence...".

I've never gotten a "wait and see" game. Last time my horse coliced, it appeared to be extremely minor gas colic which I indicated to the Vet and he told me to administer Banamine, walk him around slowly and if he wasn't back to normal within 30mins, call again and he'd be right out. It resolved and my horse was back to normal within 20mins, Vet did a free drop-by that evening though, had some meds for my BO and wanted to give my horse a once-over.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Livvyx said:


> That was so rude. I don't know if all Americans think horses are better off slaughtered than saved, but we certainly dont think so in England.


I think that others have expressed my opinion very well already - thank you all for that. 

I really don't believe that my Nationality has any bearing on my opinions whatsoever, but I just took this photo for you.


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## Livvyx (Jun 3, 2012)

Speed Racer said:


> AlexS is a Brit, by the way. :rofl:
> 
> England has their slaughter houses as well, so I hardly think your use of 'we' includes all of Britain. :wink:
> 
> ...


Yes, like I said in my last post I did not mean to put people into groups. I am not getting into a debate, some people are for it and some people aren't. I don't see why so many breed to sell so much if there's so many horses that are ending up there. 

Hope he is ok OP


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Huh Alex, 










Doesn't prove anything, mine looks just the same, in fact I lost one, delayed my citizenship up here, you didn't find it did you?


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

It probably ran off as you were applying for citizenship - giggle.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Pish, Golden went from a Brit to a Canuck? Her passport hid itself in shame! :hide:


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Livvyx said:


> Which is exactly why I said I don't know if all are, I did not say all Americans think that? I agree horses need vet care, but to say to someone there horse was better off sent to a slaughter house, that is rude and disrespectful. Some people don't believe in vets at all, no I dont wish to go in to that debate but don't think it's something to support.


Re read your post. You clearly said "all". Honesty is not the same as rudeness.


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## Livvyx (Jun 3, 2012)

Yes I clearly said I don't know If they are all like that. So I dont know what your getting at. Just shows how rude a few people have been as the op has messaged me to let me know how the foal is, what's the point posting it in here when she will just get bashed again


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## HagonNag (Jul 17, 2010)

I think "bashed" is a little strong. People spoke honestly about a problem that she posted. She asked for advice but didn't like the advice she got. Foals that "look like they aren't going to make it" need to be seen by a vet. She's the one who described her foal, we only respond to what we hear. If a foal
(or horse) is in that condition, and she can't (or won't) call out a vet, then she doesn't need to be "rescuing" any other horses.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Bashed, attacked, etc are beg overused these days.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

themacpack said:


> Bashed, attacked, etc are beg overused these days.


Just like the term 'rescued'. If you BUY it at auction, it's_ not_ a rescue. It's called a _purchase_. :?


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> Pish, Golden went from a Brit to a Canuck? Her passport hid itself in shame! :hide:


I'm proudly dual nationality, and when I get my Canadian passport those dam Yanks will quit charging me $6 every time I want to cross the border, and I can just go through the drive through entry instead of having to go inside and get photographed and fingerprinted, it gets old a bit quick!


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Wait, Brits have to pay to come into the US but Canadians don't? How does that work? Plus, what kind of drive-thrus are you talking about? I have my doubts that McDonald's or even Tim Horton's cares what nationality you are.  :wink:


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

*le sigh* at the border, Canadians go through the drive through entry, wave their passport and they are in. Brits have to park up go inside and fill in the forms, get the whole works and pay up..

Getting into to USA from Saskatchewan for a Brit, at least 30 mins, for a Canadian, at least 30 seconds:lol:


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

That's 'cause we still don't trust you Brits. :?

Taxation without representation, trying to make us drink TEA instead of coffee, and then that silly war. Which we pretty much won by default, since the English king just got tired of the whole mess. :rofl:

Canucks now, they're North Americans. They may speak that parley vous stuff and have Parliament instead of the House and Senate, but we're not quite so suspicious of them. Except for the fact that they don't like guns. Imma keep an eye on all y'all, just in case!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I love it! the Drive-thru! 



at our closest border crossing, there is hardly a time that it doesn't take a at least an hour, often several hours to get across, for anyone. There's always a very long line.


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## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

tinyliny said:


> I love it! the Drive-thru!
> 
> 
> 
> at our closest border crossing, there is hardly a time that it doesn't take a at least an hour, often several hours to get across, for anyone. There's always a very long line.



You are not too far from me. I know so may people that go down shopping and they just upped the amount you can bring back after 24 hours so look out you are about to be invaded by glassy eyed Canadians looking for a deal!


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## HagonNag (Jul 17, 2010)

I haven't forgotten the War of 1812. And that was more recent than the Revolution! Just saying...


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

HagonNag said:


> I haven't forgotten the War of 1812. And that was more recent than the Revolution! Just saying...


Hey, that's right! Dang furriners! :-x


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## HagonNag (Jul 17, 2010)

<---Hardly ever forgives and never forgets! LOL


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

I just love when people get on her, tell us their horse is dying, colt is dying, cut up, pregnant with no vet care, blah blah blah, and ask what to do.
So, knowledgable folks get on and give an opinion. Mine was one day of three shots was not enough and to actually TELL the vet to come out, don't just ask opinions. The OP ovbiously did not like my opinions.
I get phone calls daily, "my horse is cut up, my horse is colicing, my horse is dying" "my dog is sick, my dog is trying to have puppies for the past 36 hours, my puppy who is not vaccinated acts like parvo". They all ask what to do. We tell them" bring the animal in, or we will come out. They say" how much will it cost? We give a rough estimate and they say" oh well that is too much, I will just talk to grandpa or the neighbor and do what they say". People do not want to spend money if they don't have to. Most vets will not give advice to unqualified/unknown owners to give shots,medicate etc because if the animal dies, they owner can try to sue the vet. 
Then they call as a last ditch effort to help us save their animal from dying, which normally is too late.
Our vets will go out on an emergency immediately when called if the person doesn't want to bring the animal in(large animals, small have to come in) We will cancel appointments for emergencies. Not a big deal. 
So, if this foal was as bad as the OP stated, I don't for a minute believe a miracle happened like she said. Either it was not a big deal, she never had a sick foal or something worse happened and now she is blaming all of us rude folks for giving information that she obviously knew she was not going to use.
I am glad the baby made it, although have seen many babies perk back up, then crash again.
I also love the analagy that buying from an auction is a rescue. No, it is a purchase, you paid money... Taking a horse from a neighbor because they gave it to you is also not a rescue, it is taking a free horse, even though it might be skinny, feet not cared for, needs dental. Heck, half the horses in this valley would qualify for that condition, but they are no rescues. I think it makes a person feel "more knowledgable" if they can make folks think" we rescued a horse, aren't we grand"
We rescued Bones... We told the guy we were gonna turn him in for cruelty if he did not give us the horse. He gave us the horse, we spent hundreds of dollars to keep him alive. 500-600 lbs underweight was the least of his issues, but we rescued him.
Of course folks are gonna get upset when a person comes on board, asks for advice, then basically calls everyone rude when they hear what they don't want to hear. Of course some of the folks here also feel that a vet is useless, their "natural" methods of curing a horse are better. Wait until they have a desperately ill horse, then the vets they hate will be the first they call to save their horse when their methods from the old days don't work. 
They used to do surgery on people without anesthetic back in the old day, can't imagine the non call the vet folks would ok their doctor doing that to them. Guess the "good old days" treatments only fit when their work.


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## enh817 (Jun 1, 2012)

I'm probably going to regret saying this ---

but I definitely believe a horse is better off going to slaughter than going to an owner that can't afford to care for it.

Starvation, dying slowly from untreated illness or injury, because the owner can't afford to feed the horse or have a vet out, sounds a lot worse to me.


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## dee (Jul 30, 2009)

Wyominggrandma - My vet feels there is no excuse for not calling - if you are short of funds, he will ALWAYS work out something. His main concern is the animal, and if he feels you are not providing sufficient care for the horses, you will hear about it loud and clear. He has never refused to come out, though he did recommend that we wait and see on a horse we thought was colicking. Turned out, as the vet suspected, that the horse, being a weanie when it comes to pain, was in pain from being kicked in the belly shortly before dispaying symptoms of colic. The pain passed after an hour or so of walking him around, though I have to admit that the vet got more than one phone call in that time.

He did drop by the next morning, at about 4 a.m. (the reason he didn't come out right away was because he was tending to a mare with a difficult birth, and then the foal had issues as well). By then, our horse was running, bucking and pestering the boss mare that had double barrelled him earlier. Since it wasn't a digestion issue, he just told us to go light on the feed for 24 hours to make sure there wasn't something else wrong. 

There was no recurrance of the colic...and no vet bill since he just dropped by on his way home...and drank about half a pot of coffee.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Oh I agree... But it is amazing how many people want advice over the phone for no cost. Which neither vets appreciates.
They will always go to emergency calls immediately...


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

BAck to the vet thing...

I love how so many people say, "well, I'd just call another vet." Must be nice to have that as an option.

Here, my choices are vet #1, or vet #1, or on a good day try vet #1. Vet is almost an hour away; well the office is -- where the vet is at any given moment could be 2 minutes down the road or 4 hours in the bush. There are other vet offices that are within an hour or hour and a half, but they won't look at my animals because I'm in vet #1's territory!!! I have even offered to trailer my horse to their location, but they won't take an animal from another vet's territory. 

Then the vet gets upset with us when we disagree with the assessment. Like a horse that was urinating blood, and the vet said, "oh, it's colic. Get him to drink and pass manure. He'll be fine." Ya, right. He died later that day. Then the next day, the vet called and asked if he could get the corpse and do an autopsy to find out what happened. The next day??? Sorry, around here an animal is buried within hours.

Or the senior horse that isn't eating -- let's make an appointment for 2 weeks from now and the vet will be out to see her then. !!!! Uh... NOT! NOW, we need you NOW!

So for all of you that are so critical of others that don't seem to want to do what you would do -- options are not the same everywhere. So we learn how to do things with backyard home remedies as much as possible.

As for the money thing... don't even go there. Every once in a while I have to rant about how we all are supposed to have $x in the bank for emergency care... Well, guess what? I DON'T. Sorry, I don't. I have had horses for years though and if I've spent $1500 in vet care I'd be surprised. And that includes a $400 bill for stitches when my mare cracked her head on the trailer. I am also not going to ever spend $1500 in one shot to save my horses. That's just out of my budget. If that's the call, then it's the rifle that comes out instead. Does that mean I shouldn't have my horse? Oh well, tough noogies to y'all then. Thankfully, that has never had to be a choice, but it's knowledge that I live with. I also do as much as I can in preventative care and first aid and general health treatment. I can $ave a lot, but I can't do surgery.


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## Silent one (Aug 22, 2011)

If I wasn't willing to spend $1,500 to save any horse that I have, I simply wouldn't have them.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

It takes a vet about 45 minutes to get to my house.
I live in a rural county with less thatn 50,000 people and 70% of those live in the nearest town of any size. It can take hours to get a vet on an emergency at night if they are busy.
I have had them give me advice over the phone and tell me to bring the animal in first thing in the morning especially if they are out on another emergency.
Just because someone does not have 1500 $ for emergency care should not preclude them from having a horse.
I know several people that take excellent care of their horses yet have to really scrape by to do it.
I also know people that have plenty of money that I would not sell ahorse to.
It is the level of care you give the horse not how expensive that care is. Shalom


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## enh817 (Jun 1, 2012)

@NorthernMama

You're really lucky you live where you live then. In the States, in many places, it's against the law to bury livestock on your property. You have no other choice but to pay quite a bit of money to have them picked up to be buried elsewhere or cremated.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

dbarabians said:


> It takes a vet about 45 minutes to get to my house.
> I live in a rural county with less thatn 50,000 people and 70% of those live in the nearest town of any size. It can take hours to get a vet on an emergency at night if they are busy.
> I have had them give me advice over the phone and tell me to bring the animal in first thing in the morning especially if they are out on another emergency.
> Just because someone does not have 1500 $ for emergency care should not preclude them from having a horse.
> ...


Awesome


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

enh817 we have never had to pay for carcass removal where I live in Texas.
My family has owned this place since the 1830's and we either burn the carcass or drag it to a gully with the tractor. all the farmers and ranchers around here would die laughing if someone told them to pay someone to haul off a carcass. Shalom


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

I live in the middle of nowhere Wyoming. Not a stoplight, can't even wash a car at the car wash on Sunday(valley wide religion so nothing is open on sundays owned by the specific religious member) closest Walmart is 100 miles away one way. No big stores, no big hardware stores, no pet stores, two private owned feed stores close,the other one is about 30 miles away. 
But, in this whole valley, there are 9 different vets, anywhere from 20 to 35 miles away. Most take after hours emergencies, about 4 do not.
So, I live in nowhere, but there are plenty of vets, only two I would not use.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

enh817 said:


> @NorthernMama
> 
> You're really lucky you live where you live then. In the States, in many places, it's against the law to bury livestock on your property. You have no other choice but to pay quite a bit of money to have them picked up to be buried elsewhere or cremated.


We have to call a renderer or someone to haul the carcas away along with a vet and their farmcall charge coming from over an hour away to put the animal down. We live on base in the middle of the valley where there are very few vets. It will end up costing more to dispose of a horse here than it is to purchase one.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

NorthernMama said:


> As for the money thing... don't even go there. Every once in a while I have to rant about how we all are supposed to have $x in the bank for emergency care... Well, guess what? I DON'T. Sorry, I don't.


 I often don't either. However I can come up with it (usually) within a month if I cannot have it immediately available. Last year we sadly had to put our dog to sleep, before that we spent about $6k on his vets bills. It took forever to catch up with that, and we would have been in real trouble if another animal needed expensive care during that time. 

However this owner 'rescued' her horses a month ago. She also stated that vets WOULD NOT come out to her before she said she couldn't afford it. I think that's a little different. 







dbarabians said:


> It takes a vet about 45 minutes to get to my house.
> I live in a rural county with less thatn 50,000 people and 70% of those live in the nearest town of any size. It can take hours to get a vet on an emergency at night if they are busy.


I live in quite a populated area and this can be the case for me too, depending on how busy the vets are. I've waited all day for a vet before, with them keeping calling to say they would get there as soon as they could. It wasn't life or death but it was an emergency call, so it was ok - I understand I would be pushed back for a critical call.


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## enh817 (Jun 1, 2012)

dbarabians said:


> enh817 we have never had to pay for carcass removal where I live in Texas.
> My family has owned this place since the 1830's and we either burn the carcass or drag it to a gully with the tractor. all the farmers and ranchers around here would die laughing if someone told them to pay someone to haul off a carcass. Shalom


I realize not all places have laws against livestock burial or that not everyone follows the laws. And I understand why people would be more inclined to dispose of the carcass on their own property -- sentimental reasons and costs.
But usually when it's against the law, it's for sanitary reasons. I know I certainly don't want somebody's decomposing horse in the ground where my water comes from ...
But yeah, some properties that's not an issue. 
And if you burn the carcass, of course, then it's not an issue either. I can't imagine how awful that must smell though. Around where I live, you'd probably need a burn permit to do that also. 

But, as OldHorseLady said, many places you end up paying quite a bit of money to have the carcass removed :\


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## OutOfTheLoop (Apr 1, 2012)

Sometimes finding a decent equine vet is hard. We have one close and he has been in practice for 32 years. The others are an hour away. When it comes to the money issue, I make would never deny a horse to be seen by a vet if they needed it. Now whether or not you can afford the treatment is a different story. I had a300$ auction horse break his jaw. Did I call the vet out and pay the 200$ to have him looked at, yes. Was I willing to pay the 6 grand for the surgery to fix him up? Heck no. There is no excuse to not have an animal seen, but sometimes, you just cant afford, or not willing, to spend the money for treatment. Thats when its k to either put the animal to sleep, or find it someone who is willing. With the broken jaw, I was able to find a vet clinic to do experimental surgery for under 1k, and ended up with a great horse, but one that could never be rode with a bit, or chew grain. Was it worth it? I done think it was, the horse required so much special care afterwards. Also goes to show, where theres a will, there is a way. The vet hooked me up working for a lady who Fox hunted, and raised warmbliods and Fox hounds. I would not trade that experience for the world. The lady paid the vet directly for my work, and I gained tons of knowledge.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

OP get the vet to your foal now! anything else is wanton neglect

I quite agree with those that say if you dont have the money for vet bills you shouldnt have a horse.

The minimum you should have put to one side is enough for an emergency call out and to have the horse PTS.

I have insurance on my horses for exactly this reason. I have the excess put to oneside, however i do know that if i couldnt afford the excess all in one month my vet would do payments on it.

I'm looking at a £2k vet bill for Reeco, hopefully my insurance will cover it but if not I will find the money from somewhere. it may take me a few months but I will find the money.



Livvyx said:


> That was so rude. I don't know if all Americans think horses are better off slaughtered than saved, but we certainly dont think so in England.


Total BS. I also live in the UK and I have rescued horse however I and the large majority of my friends and proffessional aquaintences believe a horse is far better off dead rather than facing an uncertain future and the vast majority of horses that go for slaughter are there for a reason. (have you ever attended somewhere like Beeston horse market?)

The horse market in the UK is flooded, no one needs yet more poorly conformed, poorly schooled, badly mannered and poorly bred horses. Untill people stop breeding indescriminately there is always a need for slaughter.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

The way the OP stated that the vet refused to come (not that there wasn't one within a 10000000 miles)made me wonder. It has been my experience, with people, dogs, horses, whatever, that you need to build and foster your relationships It is no different with a vet. IF, (note, I am saying IF, I do not know this is the case) the OP is one who calls vet/Md for every scratch and makes like it is life threatening, if is very possible that the vet responded like this. Sort of like the boy who cried wolf. Just one possibility. 

For this reason, I make sure that when I call, my vets/MD's know there is a REAL issue, that I am not exaggerating. Sometimes you have to build credibility with them. Most will trust you in the beginning, but if you abuse the trust.....they may look at you like the "crazy person" who calls all the time.

I do think you should have some $$ set aside for emergencies, or you should not have them. I also know where my limits are financially, so that I am less likely to get caught up in the moment and end up with a $10000 bill on a $1000 horse.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

I was sent a PM by the OP, don't ask me why. She said that she called two different vets, but they were in the city and only went to cow farms because that is where the money is. Would not come out to see her foal, which tells me that she probably never had used them before. She also said that the vet did say he would come out but it would cost money(she said $500) which I question, said she would not spend that.
She said lots of folks were rude to her. Blah Blah Blah.
I told her that the folks that were "rude" to her were not, in fact they were giving advice as she had asked. Said when a person comes on a forum and asks for help, then gets all mad because we all said to get to a vet, to not get mad, just read what is written and take the advice, and when she threw a little mad fit, it wasn't real appropriate.
She also stated that she gave shots for three day(not three shots in one day) which I said was still too small amount, needed to be at least 10 days. I also said that lots of folks use "good old days" cures, and sometimes it works, sometimes the animal feels better, then crashes again. To not use a vet and instead use "good old day"cures from whomever gives her the advice is just because you don't want to spend the money on the sick animal.
She said that the horse was dumped on her doorstep, pregnant. She had not planned on it or a sick foal. I said that since she took the horse she was responsible for it and responsible for the sick foal.
Told her all of us were passionate about horses and of course we all are concerned about the foal, and of course we all say"Get the vet out". When that is ignored, it upsets us all and makes us wonder why you took a horse that was dumped on the doorstep if you were not prepared to take care of ALL the issues.
Told her to stay on the forum and send photos. Told her we would all be glad to see photos of the is foal and the wonderful cure so suddenly of it being on "deaths door".


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

TheresaD said:


> A month ago we rescued a mare and colt from slaughter the night he was born.


Interesting how the story has changed, wyoming.

Now the horse was DUMPED, when her very first post stated they 'rescued from slaughter'. :?

Sorry, I don't believe a large animal vet would tell her they won't come out 'because the money's in the big farms'. That's ludicrous.

I think the truth is probably a lot more mundane, like the OP not paying outstanding vet bills. That cost of $500.00 was probably payment for an overdue bill, and the vet wouldn't come out until it was paid.

Of course, this is all speculation, since the OP has decided to act like a child and hide behind PMs, while backpedaling and changing her story.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

So, OP, since you are lurking......what is the REAL story? It cannot be both ways. Most of us have been around the barn a few times. ;-)

And yes, we would love pictures.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Vets money certainly isnt in cattle.
Equine vets are generaly the best paid vets in the industry. 
Certainly the farmers round here are not willing to spend even a quater of what a horse person will on a vet.
You dont exactly see cattle hospitals where millions of ££ have been spent on facilities.
Heck I've just paid a bill for close on £600 for 2 hrs work and a few xrays!!! (doesnt include call out as i took the pony to them)


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## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

NorthernMama said:


> BAck to the vet thing...
> 
> I love how so many people say, "well, I'd just call another vet." Must be nice to have that as an option.
> 
> ...


 For your horse have you tried the "clay" that barbswellness.com sells? The lady that sells it has worked with animals all her life. The clay is a all-round body cleanser from what I've gathered... And she is very knowledgeable...:wink: 

In my opinion The vet should be notified early enough in the sickness to give him chance to use his stuff well... But we hardly ever see the vet... Why? Because we learn all we can from our feed guy on keeping the horses healthy... Obviously somethings you can't prevent, like a puncture wound or (rescues that are already in poor health) what ever... Still in the long run it does not pay to go third rate on feed... That just what I've learned


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## TheresaD (Jun 1, 2012)

Sorry this got to be so long!

Quick first note to wyominggrandma, I did not say in my PM that, "She said that the horse was dumped on her doorstep, pregnant." The truth lies in my message to you and also below; 

And now, I just wanted to clarify as I can understand where some of you are confused about what happened. I have been more emotional in my posts than clear on the facts. 

A month ago we got a call from a friend saying that there was a mare being held over for rest at the auction ring in town, she was one of many coming up from WY to Canada for slaughter. While they were being rested she had a colt. Our friend was told the truth about what would happen; that the mare would continue on her trip to Canada and the colt would be killed as he could not go through into Canada without the Coggins test and no one wanted to bottle feed him. We received a call that morning from our friend saying that he already had it arranged for them to be delivered that afternoon and that we just had to take them. We love horses and had planned on having them but not until next summer. We have only lived on our farm for a year and though everything is set up to have horses we knew that we had other things we needed to put our money into this year before we would feel comfortable enough to start looking for the right horse(s). It always seems that everything comes at once. But, my fiancée grew up with horses and with as many as they had, they never had any problems so, our bleeding hearts took over and we gave the okay hoping and praying that everything would be okay. About 9-10 hours later, they were delivered. 

Everything went well. The mare came down with a seriously runny nose for about 2 weeks but, recovered on her own and has fattened up nicely. Then the colt started to wheeze. We didn’t really think anything of it the first day but, on day two we called one of the vets closest to us, which is an hour away. We have never had large animals so we have no rapport with these people. She stated that he probably had an upper respiratory issue and penicillin for 3 to 5 days would help him get over it. He was still upbeat and playful, just a bit wheezy. We gave one shot daily for 3 days and then stopped. He continued to be playful and happy for another few days. But, the wheezing continued so, we called the vet back. She stated that she could not come out to see him but would make time if we could bring him in. We do not have a trailer yet so, that was not an option. We called another vet from the same town and were told that since they are so busy with all the sick calves around and we because we were new customers, it would cost more than normal for him to come out and he didn’t know when that would even be. Talked to some neighbors who said that he already charges an arm and a leg as it is. I am sorry but, we just cannot afford to spend around $500 just to get him out here to take a look. ($500 is what I deduced based on how much he has charged neighbors and by him saying that it would cost more than usual) 

The next day is when I made my original post on here. It was the first day that he was not acting playful like normal. It took me about 10 minutes to get him up and moving and then he walked around all day wheezing with his head hung. Friday and Saturday he was pretty sick. But, he kept eating and walking around. We began penicillin shots again on Friday night and are giving him daily shots for 7 days. I realize now that we shouldn’t have stopped. Sunday night his wheezing was minimal and he was playful again. Yesterday and today it has been very hot so he has spent most of his time in the shade of the barn but, whenever we go out he is up and about, running around and is eating…well, like a horse! He is still a bit wheezy but is definitely on the up and up. 

I did some more research over the weekend and was able to obtain the number for a vet who is only 20 minutes from my house and works out of her home. She comes highly recommended from some locals and I have left her a voice message so we can run through what all has gone on with our colt. Since she is in the area and her name was given to me by a friend they think that she’ll probably just pop out to check him out and hopefully we can start to build a relationship with her. Our friends also gave us the run down of how she usually does her billing so, if we do need to get him some more meds we should definitely be able to seeing as we will be caught up again financially by the end of this month, thank God. I am excited for her return call and do hope to build a relationship with her. 

Contrary to what some of you have made up in your minds, I do believe in veterinary medicine and think that it is important to build a relationship with your vet. I have a wonderful relationship with my dog vet but, too bad she doesn’t practice equine veterinary on the side. Also, my bill is always paid in full so no, that is not why a vet would not see me. Also, so you don’t think my story is “changing” I do very much believe in natural and home remedy solutions. If I can try, I will. When those solutions don't work, I contact the vet. 

I was advised by a friend who has read through this thread that I shouldn’t post this many details and heck, I probably shouldn’t. I shouldn’t feel the need to explain myself. But, that some of you have sincerely asked for clarification from me, rather than believing a lot of the speculation that has been brought out, has truly touched me and I appreciate your thoughts and feel that you deserve to know what exactly happened. I hope that this clears things up and that even those who don’t agree with how I handled the situation can understand that my heart is in the right place. I apologize again for my frustration in a previous post. I was speaking in an emotional way which never helps things but, we all are guilty of that error once in a while.


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## Livvyx (Jun 3, 2012)

True but you shouldn't have to explain yourself. I think some people spend too much time disagreeing with people over the Internet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Livvyx as you are a very new member to the forum who's only other post is questionable, maybe you should not be telling more established members of this community what they should and should not be arguing about.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Thanks for the full explanation. IT was very helpful, and it truly sounds like you are on the right road for sure. I understand that in the beginning you were most likely upset and emotional, but this sounds much better than that post did for sure. I am glad you found a vet closer, and it sounds like you will have one you can work with, which is key, IMO.

Altho theoretically you shouldn;t have to explain yourself, it is really not fair to the rest of us who only see what you have posted, don't know you from a barn beam, to be abe to figure out how to best help you. SOmehow many of us knew there was more to the story.....and there was. Thanks for sharing it....now.....pics please? We love babies......:wink:


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## TheresaD (Jun 1, 2012)

Oh my. To wyominggrandma I wasn't intending to be nasty at all. I just wanted to clarify as I feel that people read the words "dumped on my doorstep" and got the wrong idea. I really didn't mean for that to sound nasty, I swear!


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

wyoming, whilst you and I have disagreed i've never found you offensive or harassing.

Sometimes people just need telling straight out (infact the vast majority of people need it) and whilst there is a fine line between blunt and rude, i find you fallon the blunt side


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

That is why I reread what you wrote and said "dropped off"..
I think its great the foal is doing better. As I tried to say, I was trying to tell folks how the first vets were in the city and not open to seeing you since you were a new client. I said how much you said the vet quoted you. I explained about you giving shots for three day instead of three in one day, and how I said usually 10 days is better. I was trying to help everyone understand where you were coming from and then said some things I felt concerned about.
Actually I was trying to explain things as you wrote to me, to the others. I was not trying to sound nasty or say you were doing things wrong.
I hope the foal continues to do well, as I said I hope he does. Sometimes natural cures work, sometimes they don't.
Good luck.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Thanks faye,People disagree all the time. Sometimes the advice or suggestions I might give aren't worth a darn to someone and sometimes they are.
Thats why is called a forum, to give ideas and thoughts to each other.
If someone doesn't like what they hear, don't throw a tantrum, don't call people rude or nasty, just say thanks and go on to the next post.. Surely in all the posts from folks when asked for advice, a person has to learn something.
Being nasty is just stupid and a waste of time. Trust me, I can get rude and sometimes want to reach through the computer screen and shake some of these posters, but not my business if they don't want to take advice given by very experienced folks. Or as Whisper said" my word is gospel". I really could care less if someone does or doesn't take my advice or help, just ignore it then.
The funny thing is, this happens all the time. The FIRST thing 99% of the forum members will say when someone write and says" my horse is sick, what do I do, my horse might be pregnant, what do I do", get a vet!!!. You would think most posters would get that by now and expect that is what they are going to hear.


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## TheresaD (Jun 1, 2012)

Thank You wyominggrandma for this last post. I was upset. I can see where you took my comment as me being nasty but, hope you understand now that I wasn't trying to come off that way.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

I meant it more to Whisper.. I was one of the posters who disagreed when she did not want to get a vet out for her pregnant mare.. She didnt like my point of view. She got a healthy foal, good for her..
I understand what you were saying,TheresaD, no worries. Keep posting,keep asking question, keep learning from all the vast experience all the forum members can give you. It is well worth it.
NOW, I expect to see photos of the little man soon..:lol:


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## TheresaD (Jun 1, 2012)

I will try to post a picture since there have been a few of you asking. Hopefully I can figure out how to do that.


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## Livvyx (Jun 3, 2012)

I would like to say sorry to whoever I offended, I know everyone has best intentions And people have strong opinions, and things just dont come out as I intend them too!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

I have to say when I was sitting in my living room this morning deciding whether I should take my dog to the vet or not I thought of all you guys. Went online, but not to a forum because I knew everyone would say take her to the vet, which is where she is going to be until tomorrow at the earliest.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

hope she is going to be okay.. whats wrong?


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## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

wyominggrandma said:


> hope she is going to be okay.. whats wrong?



Well first she was attacked by a Pitt Bull on Sat - now that was scary. Luckily no skin broken but one very scared and sore puppy doggie. Since he didn't break the skin I didn't take her to vet but she was throwing up everywhere last night. Woke me at 3 am outside my door throwing up. But it wasn't food it was liquid but not the normal yellowish bile. This was brown and almost looked like sand but wasn't. Anyhoo took her to vet and she has a fever and her stomach is really hard so they are doing tests and have her on an iv. Sheesh last month was the Equine and this month the dog hubby gonna love me when he gets home.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

oh man... what a bummer. She is not bloating is she?


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## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

wyominggrandma said:


> oh man... what a bummer. She is not bloating is she?



Not sure. Hoping to hear from vet soon. If she hadn't been attacked on Sat I probably would have waited a day to see how she was but I so scared that she had internal damage or something.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Does it look like coffee grounds? Is she pooping? Sorry to get off track folks..


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## enh817 (Jun 1, 2012)

Good for you Hunter, for getting her to the vet quickly! 
For all you know, that could've been the difference between saving her and having a potentially fatal issue on your hands, if it's serious.

I sincerely hope your pup is alright! Keep us updated


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## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

franknbeans said:


> Does it look like coffee grounds? Is she pooping? Sorry to get off track folks..


I read about the coffee grounds thing - blood right? Kinda but lighter than coffee, more like sand - but she hasn't been anywhere near sand. She is pooping and it looks normal. 

I will be updating in the thread for over 40's


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

OK-thx


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Oh darn, that means I can't read about your dog, I am not over 40.......
Yea, I wish.. Will be checking for your posts and updates.
Hey, if this makes anyone feel better, it is supposed to SNOW tonight at home....... YUCK.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Where is the over 40's thread? I want to keep updated on Hunter65's dog..
thanks


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

faye said:


> Vets money certainly isnt in cattle.
> Equine vets are generaly the best paid vets in the industry.
> Certainly the farmers round here are not willing to spend even a quater of what a horse person will on a vet.
> You dont exactly see cattle hospitals where millions of ££ have been spent on facilities.
> Heck I've just paid a bill for close on £600 for 2 hrs work and a few xrays!!! (doesnt include call out as i took the pony to them)


Faye, I am not here to start a fight and I want no part of this original thread but you are very mis-informed as far as equine vets salaries go. Perhaps I am misreading your post, but it seems that you think equine vets make a lot of money. If I am wrong then please forgive the following diatribe. 

Small animal vets (like myself) are the most well paid. If you break it down by hour, equine vets make squat, and even if you break it down annually they make squat. The millions of dollars in facilities which are usually necessary for surgical problems is where your vet bill goes, as well as the high cost of the medications to the vet which gets passed on with very little mark up to you. If you would like to look up and see the AVMA makes public what most vets make based on a survey of veterinarians taken annually. Also, we all carry an AVERAGE of $150,000 debt for school veterinary school alone, equine vets are a little higher as most do internships and residency. I too pay for the vet when my horse is sick because I can't take him into the small animal hospital for most problems. I know those bills are high, as my husband loves to remind me of this. But I also know that horses are a luxury so I have to budget for medical expenses just like everyone who has an expensive hobby.


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## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

Here is a link to the over 40's thread. Just left a message for vets awaiting a reply. This is a great thread you should spend a couple of days reading it lol

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-talk/horse-talk-mature-people-over-40-a-111931/page321/


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

tealamutt said:


> Faye, I am not here to start a fight and I want no part of this original thread but you are very mis-informed as far as equine vets salaries go. Perhaps I am misreading your post, but it seems that you think equine vets make a lot of money. If I am wrong then please forgive the following diatribe.


Remember Faye is talking about the UK, don't know if the situation is different on each side of the Atlantic. 

We may not have the best vets in the world out in my rural neck of the prairies, but at least they work together for the good of the patient.

Rang my number 1 vet on a Saturday am to ask for an attend for Ace, got told he was tied up on a farm emergency and wouldn't be free for up tp 4 hours. His wife checked that I had the number of number 2 vet available, and would of supplied it if it wasn't already on my phone.

I wanted a mare ultra sounded for pregnancy, vet 1 only does palps, so he sent me to Vet #3.

They work together, cover holiday, sickness etc. All in all given the fact that there is such a small population, given the fact that a lot of people wouldn't call the vet for their recreational animal, we are not to badly off


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Yes I am in the UK. Vets over here are trained differently to the ones over there in that they do all animals first and then specialise later. So my equine vet is fully capable if not more so of diagnosing a dog as a small animal vet is of diagnosing a horse. He did the same course after all, however my equine vet then went on to specialise further.
You call a small animal vet here and they will come out in an emergency to a horse, they may not be as good as the equine vet but they are reasonable in an emergency situation.


University fees over here are less then half that in the states and the loans we take out are from the government (paid back at the rate of 9% of any earnings over £15k with intrest charged at the rate of inflation)

I've worked on beef and dairy farms over here, generaly there are no "cattle" vets, they are either large animal vets (do horses, cattle and basicly any farm animal, sometimes do exotics at local zoos as well) or equine vets who will go out to cattle. The few practices that used to be only farm animal have had to branch out into equine just to keep themselves afloat, where as my equine vets are making an absolute mint.

Cattle farmers are very very concious of the value of thier animals and insurance will only cover so much for them so once the cost of treatment exceeds a certain %age of the animals value then they would rather shoot the animal and lose that amount of money rather then a larger amount for treatment and still loose the value of the animal (bare in mind that no drugs can have been administered to an animal intended for slaughter within XX time frame of slaughter and human consumption over here, i believe it is a year and certain drugs mean no human consumpton EVER! and conciquently no value to the animal)

I do know average salaries over this side of the pond as I did concider going into vet medicine myself, (decided to go for engineering instead) and equine vets were by far the better paid, had the better conditions and the better perks.
Heck over here an equine vet can make £100 just by sticking a measuring stick on your horse and filling in a few forms to say what height he "officialy" measures at. No fancy equipment needed, just a calibrated measuring stick (about £40, and £10 a year for official calibration) and a flat level marked out concrete area to stand the horse on.
The Vet who measured Reeco last year measured 5 horses in an hour!

the big equine hospitals all either have huge corporate sponsors, are part of a university or attached to a racecourse (and hence funded by racing).


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

in the us vets also train in all animals and specialize later. I have several friends from UK as well as Germany, Denmark, and South Africa who have studied here for the summer. True, the debt load is lower but the time in school is longer and given that the average equine vet works well over 80 hours a week in very rough conditions, one can hardly argue that their salary is anything above adequate. True, measuring a horse isn't difficult but don't over look the skill and time needed for other things like the physical exam and ability to pick up on subtle changes that might not be obvious to the lay person. In veterinary school I worked an average of 120 hours a week with no days off, so our time is very valuable. Vets on your side of the world study even longer than we do so their time is worth a LOT of money and yet they are not getting rich by any means. And then the fact remains that horses are a luxury, so again, hard to make the argument that the vet is making out unfairly...

I think you made the wiser choice for sure. Here you'd be a fool to chose veterinary medicine over being an engineer!!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

GH, that's the way my vets are. There are only 2 in my area (one is about 18 miles away, the other is about 25) but they work together for the good of the animal in question. One has strengths where the other has weakness and so forth. To have Dobe's melanomas removed, which I need to do again, I go to Dr. Prather. For geldings and more intensive surgeries, I go to Dr. Carroll. Moderate injuries that require more care than I can give at home, I can go to whichever has an opening sooner.

When I made an appt to get Taz gelded and have his hernia fixed, I had intended to stay and watch. I had seen the geldings before, but never a hernia surgery so I was curious. They asked that I bring him over at around 9 in the morning. I was driving over there when the vet himself called me on my cell phone to tell me that he'd had an emergency call so he would have to postpone Taz's surgery until he could get back later that day and I was "welcome to hang around the office if you want to stay, but I honestly don't know when I'll be back". I opted to just go ahead and leave Taz there. Vet called me about 6:30 that evening (which was long after dark in January) to tell me that both operations were done and Taz was doing great. He said that he would have to stay the night, of course, and he would call in the morning to let me know for sure if I could come pick him up or if he would need to stay longer to be safe. That next morning, which was a Saturday, vet called at about 8:30 and said Taz was up and moving and feeling fine so he was good to go home.

Another thing I love about both of these vets is that they know me, have since I was a kid, and they know what I'm capable of handling on my own. So, if I call and say I have an emergency, they know it isn't a little cut that I'm over-reacting about and they respond as fast as they possibly can. Heck, whenever I have a horse get stitches, they even tell me "You can take them out in 10-14 days and you'll be good to go. If you have any problems, just call us back." I've had other vets that would absolutely freak if I mentioned taking the stitches out myself and I understand why they do, but it's nice to not have to explain myself.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

tealamutt, i can tell you that the vets who graduated from uni the same time I did are earning well over double what I am if you break it down to an hourly rate.


I will still maintain there is far more money in horses anyway, simply because they are the luxury, many owners (and insurance companies) wont blink at paying thousands to find out why thier horse is not quite right. Most farmers over here would have an animal shot rather than spend £500 on a vet bill for a seriously injured animal.


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