# building stalls, fencing and general noobie questions



## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

My cousin, daughter and I are about to begin building stalls and fencing on our land for our horses. I hate to come here and ask dumb questions, but none of us have any experience with this and I would like to go ahead and spend my money wisely the first time. 

What size and kind of boards should I go with for the stalls. Obviously first and foremost is safety for my horses (my horse has been known to take a bite out of his stall), but secondly I am looking at durability and getting the most out of my money. Right now I am looking at what Lowes has to offer, but am not limited to them as there are other lumber yards in the area. 

I'm going to have to brace the wood to cement blocks and a cement floor. How do I go about doing that? Also, somebody was telling me that horses will kick right through cement blocks. I for the life of me can't figure out why a horse would kick a block wall, but I thought I'd ask about that just to be on the safe side. If necessary, I can build wooden walls in front of the blocks. It'd be a heck of a lot easier to replace wood than blocks. 

T-posts. I'm assuming the 6' posts will do the job just fine, but if I'm wrong, feel free to speak up. 

Sorry for all the noobie questions. I just don't want to mess things up and wind up wasting time and money trying to fix mistakes.

Thanks!


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

I hope y'all aren't reading this and thinking 'this girl is to dumb to help' :lol:

I did find out that horses can bust block while trying to get up and kicking it. I guess I will make a wooden wall in front of the blocks. 

Some people suggested using 2x6 for the boards and 4x4 for the posts. I still don't know what kind of wood is safe for horses, though. My horse does chew on his stall occasionally. Not bad, but I don't want to take any chances. 

It's really hard find info, because most sites just want to sell you barn kits. I don't need big fancy stalls, just safe ones.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

You should call and go to you NC University Extension office that closest to you. Universities have free plans for building for livestock. IF you put posts in cement blocks horses will knock them over...1st day. My suggestion is to start with 3 regular round pen sections and one round pen gate section, like this~








My gelding has a 12 x 12 stall from this. In addition he has a lot of ventilation, which more and more experts suggest. They are instant stalls and, if you build from wood later you can get more panels and create a round pen for training from these. IF I ever get to build my indoor arena--I have the room, just not the $--I intend to use them for a round pen.
For Fencing, pretty much all fencing uses either 8" diameter, 8' tall posts OR you go electric. A farm supply store can sell you what you need, and probably help you decide that, too.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

LOL, Sandy. Our old barn, that actually had stalls in it, basically consisted of walls made from treated 2x8s stacked on top of each other and they had a metal strip going down the middle of them that connected them together and made them stronger/more secure.

Are you looking to build solid walls like an actual prefab stall kit would be or are you looking more toward having it the way you would build a fence, with gaps between the boards?

About the block wall, I would want to build a wood barrier in front of that because wood is, like you said, easier to replace and it actually has some give so it's less likely to hurt the horse if they kick it.

I'm honestly not sure how much of a health risk the treating on treated lumber poses to horses. Though I do know that there are these little 3 sided angle iron things that you can put over the top of the top boards to keep them from chewing the wood.

Plus, a can of pepper spray works miracles on wood chewers, just spray it on the board and they stop chewing LOL.


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

Thanks, Corporal, for suggesting the NC university extension office. I did not know that. 

Is there not a way I can brace the posts to the cement blocks, then attach the boards to the post?

Robs, I'm looking to build stalls with solid walls like in the kits. I'm not interested in the grills or fancy sliding doors like those in the kits, though. 

Good point about the wood having more give to it. I had not thought of that. I'm definitely going with the wood barrier. I don't want any unnecessary lameness issues. 

Thanks for the suggestions on stopping the wood chewing. He doesn't do it often and only in one spot, so I bet the pepper spray would work great. 

Thank you both for the help. Trust me when I say I could use all that I can get


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

I forgot to add that my fencing will be electric.


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## Cruiser (Aug 28, 2011)

Read everything you can about electric fences, about making a good connection, lots of grounding if you'r not sure add any other grounding rod, it I have to put in electric again I am using bi polar fence so I don't have to worry about grounding, their website is also great for info on installing and has a calculator to figure out everything you need. We put in the fence posts by hand (ours were wooden) pry bar and sledge hammer, not sure about t posts but you probably can find some teenager that will put them in cheap per post because after a dozen your shoulders want to fall off. 

When comes to building my mom and I did most of the work other than framing because we wanted that strong and not waste materials ( we made a 10 by 10 run in for less than $500 materials including wooden, stain, shingles, and all). Good luck


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

That's exciting Sandy! 

It's been ages since we built ours but did them ourselves. We did solid high walls (we have studs) 6x6 posts for the frame, used treated 2 x 8 boards on the lower part of the walls but not treated on top. Fronts have panels inserted to see out. I can get some pics later if you'd like. 

I'd think you could lag your posts into the block. My hubby does mainline work for the cable company but when he still did installs, he had a giant concrete bit to go through foundations in houses, they were probably close to 2 ft long, something like that would do it. Pre-drill the concrete and posts and then use a lag type bolt with a sinking head. Just a thought, I'm not the construction person at our house...I decide what needs built and the hubby does the rest :lol:


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## Koolio (Apr 7, 2010)

sandy2u1 said:


> I forgot to add that my fencing will be electric.


You mentioned T-posts (metal?). These will work fine provided you get proper insulators for them and cap them as the tops are very sharp. You will need by buy insulators that are made for the type of fencing you choose (i.e. rope, wire, tape, braid). There are lots of electric fencing options out there that work very well. Be sure to follow the manufacturers instructions regarding tightening and anchoring the ends. If your fencing is too tight of too loose, it won't last as well.

Buy extra fencing materials including wire, end anchors, tighteners (if required) insulators and wire. That way if something breaks or if you want to add some fencing, you have what you need. I also recommend keeping 10-20 step-in posts on hand just in case you want to cross fence an area, or graze an area outside of your fence. These are also great to keep horses away from an unforeseen hazard like a tree fallen over your fence line.

Most electric fencing power units are made for the outdoors, but an inverted ice-cream pail over top will offer the unit good protection from the elements. If it is indoors, it's not an issue. Also, be sure to follow the manufacturers instructions re: grounding. 

Electric fencing is very effective and cost efficient. If properly installed, it requires minimal maintenance.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

You can rubber mat the concrete walls to add cushion and if you get used conveyor belts, it will be much cheaper than wood.


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

Thank you all for the great advice. It is very much appreciated. I am writing it down so it will be handy when I go shopping. I am very excited! Nervous, too. 

I had planned to go with the metal t-post and the wire. It sounds like I should do a little research first, though. 

I actually had to look up the step-in-posts...sad I know. I think it'd be great to let my horses graze my yard during the summer. It's a win/win...they get their bellies filled with grass and I have less mowing to do. I thought that wasn't going to be possible, though, because I have a black walnut tree in my front yard. All I have to do is put up temporary fencing! That's great news!

I sound dumber and dumber with each post don't I :lol:. We do fix the fence when it breaks at my current barn, though. So I can do that. I will also call my vet in case of emergency. So once I get set up, my horses will be fine here. 

MHF, how far are you from me? Any chance you can send your hubby over . I'd love to see pics of your stalls when you have time. 

Delf, I have been checking for conveyer belts, but no luck yet. I remember you mentioning a while back they would be good to put on my cement floor. I'm really hoping I can find some. It will be very expensive to put stall mats from every stall all the way out to the entrance of the barn....which is what I will have to do if I don't find any. I can't risk our horses falling on that slick cement floor. 

Thank you all very much for the advice. It is helping me more than you know. Any little thing you can think of to add will be much appreciated.


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

sandy2u1 said:


> T
> 
> MHF, how far are you from me? Any chance you can send your hubby over . I'd love to see pics of your stalls when you have time.


I'm a good ways from you Sandy. Though if you catch me on the right day, I might send you my hubby :lol: I'll get some pics today when I go back out to the barn.


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

I'm looking forward to them. Thanks!


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I don't know anything about building stalls, but something to consider with electric fencing, is that if it is solar powered, the first shock is a decent one and then subsequent shocks are weak until it recharges. 

I don't know how typical that is, but at my last barn it was that way. I prefer to use the tape rather than the wire as I think it gives a better visual barrier.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

sandy2u1 said:


> I actually had to look up the step-in-posts...sad I know. I think it'd be great to let my horses graze my yard during the summer. It's a win/win...they get their bellies filled with grass and I have less mowing to do. I thought that wasn't going to be possible, though, because I have a black walnut tree in my front yard. All I have to do is put up temporary fencing! That's great news!


If you have a Tractor Supply near you, that is the place to go to find a lot of fencing options. 'Real' step-in posts are a little pricey (IMHO)...we use Steel Electric Fence Post, 48 in.. - 3601009 | Tractor Supply Company (basically rebar with a spade like a t-post, $1.49) with insulated yellow toppers Red Snap'r Rod Post Cap Insulator, Yellow, Pack of 25 - 3600249 | Tractor Supply Company ($5.99 for 25) every 30 feet and polyrope Fi-Shock™ Sure Corral Monofil Polyrope, 656 ft. spool - 3600891 | Tractor Supply Company ($49.99+a charger if you don't have one) If your horses are used to/respect an electric fence, you'll have no problems at all. We've been using this for 6+ years for our mares. Here they are cutting some of our grass for me, all for under $100 (beats mowing all day long)....


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

Thank you for your input, Alex. I was thinking that in the big picture, the solar powered fence would save me some money. I don't want to do that, though, if it only has one good shock. The visibility of the fence is important. My daughters horse is 26 years old. I can't say for sure if she has vision problems or not. I affectionately refer to her as our granny horse, though. I can't help but think with age....whether it be human, horse, dog, cat, whatever, some of the senses become dulled. I don't really know how to install the tape. Do you use the same plastic pieces on the t-posts?

Paint, thank you for your help. I do have a tractor supply very close to where I work. It is very thoughtful that you added the links for what I should buy. Very helpful. Both of my horses respect electric fencing.


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## Koolio (Apr 7, 2010)

sandy2u1 said:


> I don't really know how to install the tape. Do you use the same plastic pieces on the t-posts?


Electric tape is very easy to install but you need to make sure you have the correct insulators for the width of tape you use. I think the tape comes in 1/2", 1" and either 1.5 or 2" widths. The insulators are also different than those you would use for electric rope or braid and you will choose insulators made for T-posts, wooden posts or plastic round posts. Thicker 3/8" electric rope or braid in white is easily visible. This may be a better option if you live in an area with lots of wind as the tape has a tendency to fray a bit. I pasted a link to the insulators section at the Farm Supply store so you can see the differences between insulators. 

Also, if you are worried about visibility, you can tie some short pieces of fluorescent plastic tape (the kind you would mark trees with) every few feet or so. I have seen this on barbed wire and electrified galvanized wire fences. 

Electric Fence Insulator & Tape


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

Got some pics, but they are crummy cell pics. Forgive my collection of cobwebs...can't wait for spring so I can get out the power washer! The small stalls are 12x14, end stalls are 14 x 24, foaling stalls (didn't get a pic) are 16 x 24.

















Each stall has globe covered light inside and power box on outside (elimates need for extension cords for fans or clippers) 







Each has a tie ring







Divider wall between stalls







Back wall -insulated


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Be very careful about putting conveyor belting on the floor. Unless you keep it absolutely dry, it is as slippery as all get-out. Also, if you find conveyor belting, look at the cut end of it. Does it have steel in it? If so, don't use it. Fabric conveyor belting is available and works fine on walls. I tried belting on floors, but since my horses were never stalled, the floor was bare and the belting was dangerous. I now have cement and wood floors.

Instead of going to Lowe's for lumber, is there a lumber mill anywhere near you? You don't need to buy dressed wood for stalls. See if you can find a supplier for rough wood to $ave. Just watch your dimensions as rough wood is usually 1/2" larger; a rough 2x6 is actually 2x6, while a dressed 2x6 is 1-1/2 x 5 1/2.

Buy softwood -- any hardwood will drive you nuts to work with. Pine and spruce are great. Cedar not so much and it's pricier too.

Treated lumber I personally stay away from. Supposedly horses won't chew on it, but I'm not convinced. After doing cayenne pepper, sunlight dish soap, vinegar and I don't know what else, I finally switched to putting carpeting on the wood edges that my mare used to eat. Problem solved!


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

NorthernMama said:


> Instead of going to Lowe's for lumber, is there a lumber mill anywhere near you? You don't need to buy dressed wood for stalls. See if you can find a supplier for rough wood to $ave. Just watch your dimensions as rough wood is usually 1/2" larger; a rough 2x6 is actually 2x6, while a dressed 2x6 is 1-1/2 x 5 1/2.


Yes. If you have a saw mill in your area, you can buy rough cut lumber and save yourself a ton of $$. Keep in mind, though, when you buy green lumber, you'll have to store it to let it dry and it will shrink as it dries.

A note about Lowes (and Home Depot). When we built our barn last year, I compared prices between the chains and our nearby lumber yards. Believe it or not, for common, high volume dimensions of finished lumber (2x4, 2x6, 4x4), Lowes/Home Depot were cheaper than the lumber yards. We wound up using Home Depot for the common dimensions, and a lumber yard for the rest (long 2x12s, 6x6, etc). Lowes/Home Depot do make up for their lumber prices with the higher price of fasteners (nails/screws)...go to a lumber yard for those if you can. Also, consider exterior screws instead of nails...you'll save yourself some maintenance with pesky nails that want to back out over time. Use square or star drive heads (not phillips) and you can go fast driving them with a cordless drill.



> Treated lumber I personally stay away from. Supposedly horses won't chew on it, but I'm not convinced.


We only use pressure treated lumber for posts and the bottom row, i.e. anything that can have ground contact. Horses *will* chew PT lumber and although they no longer use arsenic, the chemicals (typically a copper product) now in PT lumber are still insecticides.


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

Thank you, MHF, for the pics. Your barn turned out great! Love the idea of tie-rings on every stall. It had not even occured to me until you posted that I don't have a convenient place to tie my horses. In the future, I'd like to buid a hitching post. I have enough projects going on right now, though. I also like the lights in every stall. Not sure what I will be able to do there, as the building is already wired. Your stalls are nice and roomy. I'm not even sure what size I am going to build my stalls yet. Idealy, I'd like to be able to put all three on a side wall. That'd leave me plenty of room to store hay and tack. If necessary, I will build along the back wall, though. How wide are your doors?

Thanks for the link and tips, Koolio. It sounds like the tape can start looking bad after awhile. I think I'd rather go with wire and the fluorescent plastic tape.

Thanks for posting, Northern. It doesn't sound like the conveyor belts are going to work for me in my situation. The reason I need flooring is because the floor is really smooth slick cement....it was actually built to be an auto-shop. I'm going to need it all the way to the entrance and so getting it getting wet will be an issue. 

I do have a lumber mill in my area. If the dimensions aren't the same for the rough cut lumber and pressure treated lumber, won't it look kind of odd if I use both? The floor is cement, so I'm sure there will be plenty of times where I have to take up the stall mats and hose the floor. So I will probably have to use treated on the bottom, right?

Thanks Northern for adding what kind of wood I should use. There are so many different kinds to choose from. It helps a lot to narrow it down a bit.

Thanks for your help, Paint. I assumed that the lumber yards would be cheaper than Lowes or Home Depot. That is suprising. Thanks for the tips about the screws. Sounds like I will save myself a lot of time and headaches by investing in a good drill.


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

Thanks Sandy. They've held up well, it's been 10 years or better since we built them. We also had the lumber milled, we marked the oak trees in our woods and they cut & milled for a percentage of lumber. The treated on the bottom we had to buy. 

I will measure doors when I go out again, I know they are just a hair wider than my bobcat bucket Haha! No wheel barrow for this girl 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

I measured the doors (and got laughed at in the process - my farrier was quite amused when he walked in because I was measuring with a height tape) They are 4'3" wide.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

sandy2u1 said:


> Thanks for posting, Northern. It doesn't sound like the conveyor belts are going to work for me in my situation. The reason I need flooring is because the floor is really smooth slick cement....it was actually built to be an auto-shop. I'm going to need it all the way to the entrance and so getting it getting wet will be an issue.


You could also buy a stone finish for the floor that will rough it up and still be lots tough. Its like a paint almost. Use TSP to prepare the cement, then apply with a roller, I believe.



> I do have a lumber mill in my area. If the dimensions aren't the same for the rough cut lumber and pressure treated lumber, won't it look kind of odd if I use both? The floor is cement, so I'm sure there will be plenty of times where I have to take up the stall mats and hose the floor. So I will probably have to use treated on the bottom, right?


Treated on the bottom foot or two would last longer for sure. As for looking funny -- honestly, if looks are terribly important to you, then you've got to $pend. Personally, I don't think it will look funny because it will be consistent from one stall to the next. 1/2" is not going to be noticeable when you are looking down. Where you need to pay attention is if you have a hinge on the treated wood and another on the rough wood, you will have to shim the lower hinge. It's for things like that, that you have to pay attention to the dimensions.



> Thanks for your help, Paint. I assumed that the lumber yards would be cheaper than Lowes or Home Depot. That is suprising. Thanks for the tips about the screws. Sounds like I will save myself a lot of time and headaches by investing in a good drill.


In my area, the small name building supply stores and the lumber yards are cheaper on just about everything wood and the fasterners than Lowes and Home Depot. So shop around. Also, service and knowledge are your friend. You _might_ get service from Lowes/HD, but you absolutely won't get knowledge. 

Screws -- yes! absolutely. Paint is VERY right about that. And spend the extra to get cordless Dewalt power tools if possible. It's well worth it. They do go on sale from time to time for great deals and that's where the franchise stores are your friend.


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

MHF, done like a true horse woman, lol. I didn't mean to put you through extra trouble. I thought you might know off hand....but I also didn't realize your barn was built ten years ago. Sorry about that. Thank you for doing that for me. 

Northern, good idea about the stone finish. I didn't know about that. That might be a great option for me, especially if I end up having to build against the back wall. That would leave me with a lot of floor to have to cover. 

You are right, if all the stalls are the same, then it is all just going to blend. I don't even know why I brought that up, anyway. If I can build my horses safe and secure stalls, I will be ecstatic. 

You also make an excellent point about finding more knowledgeable people at the lumber yards. Hmmm, this also has me thinking that I need to get out and do my price comparisons in person. You can't really have a conversation with people when you are looking online or calling them about their prices. I am certainly about to be making a large enough purchase to justify the time and gas. 

Thank you very much for suggesting what kind of drill I get. I have never purchased a power tool in my life. I have used a drill a time or two, though. I'm thinking this one of those things that I may as well put some money towards and buy a really good one. Since all my stalls will be put together with screws, the drill will probably become my BFF sooner or later, lol. Dewalt drill is going on the list. 

Thank you, Northern, for you very helpful post.


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

sandy2u1 said:


> MHF, done like a true horse woman, lol. I didn't mean to put you through extra trouble. I thought you might know off hand....but I also didn't realize your barn was built ten years ago. Sorry about that. Thank you for doing that for me.


No extra trouble at all...I pretty much live in the barn lol! Between chores and horses to ride, I'm in and out all day long. 

Fencing - you've gotten great advice there too. I've found the best deals at TSC too. We built new stud lots this past summer. I wanted them to be heavy duty fence and we lucked out on posts - we had some nasty weather (straightline wind/tornado activity) and a good number of telephone poles were sheared off. My hubby was there fixing the cable mainline along with the electric guys and made an offhand comment about the old poles. The utility guys delivered them to me free of charge. I ended up getting enough posts out of them to do both lots w/6 ft above and 4 ft in the ground - worked out fantastic!


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## draftgrl (Jan 8, 2011)

I will admit that I kind of skimmed alot of what was said, but someone said that visibility of an electric fence may be a slight issue, use old socks to tie to the wire. 
For tools, my FAVORITE fencing tool is a very large pliers/wire cutter, then to have a smaller normal size pliers. 

As for the cement, there was really good ideas, of which would have been awesome to have in my folks' barn, but all we have is a normal cement floor, our horses have done well with this, we make sure to put plenty of straw down in the stall, and sometimes in the alley for traction, or we use barn lime for traction. 

You have a very fun project ahead of you good luck! Will need to see pics!!
Oh, here's the pic of the pliers I use.


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## furbabymum (Dec 28, 2011)

I would be careful about treated wood if your horse is a chewer. It's treated with arsenic (at least the green treated posts we bought were).

Our property has wood posts, about 6 foot posts 2 feet of which are buried in the ground so the fence is 4 feet high. It has three strands of smooth wire. We have an electric fence but I haven't needed to turn it on. They respect the area pretty well.


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

My floor is the polished cement. Very slick. I don't feel that putting straw on the floor will help me. It could even make it more slippery, IDK. That cement floor is unforgiving. I'd rather keep my horse where he is than risk him slipping and breaking something. 

Thank you for the suggestion on the pliers/wire cutters. I didn't even have fencing tools on my list, lol. 

I will most certainly be sharing pics with y'all. 

My horses respect electric fencing, also. I want to put some heat to it just in case, though. Most of my fencing will be t-posts. I will have to use some wooden post at corners and bends to get it tight, though.

Thank you all for the suggestions.


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