# critique jumper/xc



## wren (Dec 13, 2009)

Ok, never actually done one of these before...so be kinda nice. :wink:

This is Cappella, my 5 yr old ottb. He's technically been off track for a year and a half, but only in any kind of training program since last Jan. So far he's been really nice, if not a little stubborn. He loves to jump, does ok with dressage, and lives for trail rides.

Let me know how we're doing. I know my bad habits tend towards a too high heel, over jumping some, and a too tight release (he's faster and stronger than my last horse and i am learning to deal)...but anything look horrible or ok?

a variety of xc (hunter paces and schooling) and stadium type jumps


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## Eliz (Jun 16, 2010)

Hey I have that helmet


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## wren (Dec 13, 2009)

i love that helmet!


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

hes cute !! i actually like your release a lot, you dont need to give them a loopy rein, contact over the fence is just fine.

the only think i didnt like is how you jumped some of the sj fences backwards, thats not fair to a green horse.


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## wren (Dec 13, 2009)

Thanks Gypsy!
I actually never even thought about jumping the stadium ones backwards...I was just trying to get him over them all from both directions to get him used to everything. But what you are saying makes sense.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

First I really like you AND your horse.
RE the horse: Boy, he looks like he could handle higher and wider. He's not trying that hard. I am SURE that makes you feel pretty safe, so I'm not gonna suggest, BUT, if you practiced some oxers I think he'd tuck more. ...just MHO...
I, too, like your release. Regarding your heels, if you can spend extra time sitting that big trot of his and let your ankles "spring" with every stride, that will both strengthen and lengthen your ankles. Also, if you a friend who has taken classical dance (ballet or tap or jazz), have her teach you to point, flex, do a plie and rise to demi-point. Ankles seem to be the ONE part of our rider's bodies that we ignore.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

That's one scopey horse! I'm no jumping expert so I won't critique, but his jump is very clean and absolutely beautiful, as is he.


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## MudPaint (Aug 14, 2010)

I actually have no issue with your heels. Your base support looks really stable and consistent across all the pics. It's not like they are up and your toes are down. You only have one photo where it's different and that's a really awkward jump for both of you. Your release is in the right place, but remember... hand on the neck, not in the air. Even though your pretty stable and don't look like the rider that falls back, you want your hand lightly resting or pressing into the neck. Not only will it give you support (and possible mane if he does jump way big), it will create a less broken connection from the bit to elbow. When you feel comfortable you could move to an auto release. I find that I feel more control with an auto release over the fence as I always have light contact. Otherwise you look pretty darn good. I really love your tight leg. 

I jump show jumps from both sides... as long as it's a square oxer it shouldn't matter. The only thing I'd caution against is be sure to put a ground line down for him so he doesn't learn to climb the fences. In some of the s/j shots he's a little close. He def looks like he has some scope! Use some bounce grids to tighten up those knees and you'll be good to go. 

I really like him and will try not to steal him. No promises.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I know very little about jumping. I can tell bad jump form, and your's is not it! I think you look very capable, balanced, and well matched to your horse. 
I like the way you keep your core close to the saddle , not in front of it.


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## wren (Dec 13, 2009)

Thanks everybody! I am just so pleased with how Cappella is doing, and all the nice compliments on him! He really loves to jump. I plan on taking our time and bringing him up right, but i have a feeling he is going to be able to do the big classes in a couple of years. That free jump picture, he just trotted up to the jump all casual-like, then hopped right over. Ha!
And thanks for the comments on my riding too. I have really tried this year to work hard on my position. Having a greenie, i do want my position flaws to get in his way. So i really try. But i know i have things to work on. I always feel like i am giving on the landing, but once in a while the pics make it look like i am grabbing him right as we land. Do i need to slip reins? Not sit up so quick? when i get home i'll try to post a pic to show you what i mean.

Our first actual ODE is coming up this weekend. Wish up luck!


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

It's nice to know that you're going to take your time with your *talented* horse. 
**Corporal make jealous noises**
I REALLY like that you are "cross training" him with trail riding, too. 
Good luck with your ODE this weekend!!


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## MudPaint (Aug 14, 2010)

wren said:


> But i know i have things to work on. I always feel like i am giving on the landing, but once in a while the pics make it look like i am grabbing him right as we land. Do i need to slip reins? Not sit up so quick? when i get home i'll try to post a pic to show you what i mean.
> 
> Our first actual ODE is coming up this weekend. Wish up luck!



GOOD LUCK!!!! 

As for the grabbing when you're landing, that has a little to do with your hand floating in the air. You probably keep your hand and body close. You need to train your hand to work separate from your body.... continuing forward with your horse's stretch as your body goes back. You can use mane or a grab strap to help train your hand to stay put. You shouldn't slip your reins except on a drop fence. Otherwise you risk losing contact and the ability to set up for the next fence.


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

MudPaint said:


> I actually have no issue with your heels. Your base support looks really stable and consistent across all the pics. It's not like they are up and your toes are down. You only have one photo where it's different and that's a really awkward jump for both of you. Your release is in the right place, but remember... hand on the neck, not in the air. Even though your pretty stable and don't look like the rider that falls back, you want your hand lightly resting or pressing into the neck. Not only will it give you support (and possible mane if he does jump way big), it will create a less broken connection from the bit to elbow. When you feel comfortable you could move to an auto release. I find that I feel more control with an auto release over the fence as I always have light contact. Otherwise you look pretty darn good. I really love your tight leg.
> 
> I jump show jumps from both sides... as long as it's a square oxer it shouldn't matter. The only thing I'd caution against is be sure to put a ground line down for him so he doesn't learn to climb the fences. In some of the s/j shots he's a little close. He def looks like he has some scope! Use some bounce grids to tighten up those knees and you'll be good to go.


_She said everything I was going to say._

_The jumps are only "backwards" because there is no ground rail or filler on both sides, so he could miss seeing where the actual fence starts, and trip over it accidentally. If it was just the rails there, it wouldnt be a problem...its the filler just on one side that makes it wrong._

_Lovely position! Centered in your saddle, heels down, eyes up, good release point._


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

I looked again at your pics--Does Capella really need a running martingale while you are jumping? I guess I'm a worrywart and don't want Any piece of equiment on that might interfere. It doesn't look as if he needs to keep his head down. =/ ?


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## jumpwhat007 (Apr 10, 2009)

I'm about to TOTALLY creep for a hot second. The jumping picture at the Delaware Fairgrounds! Haha. I show at the Showtime Series every year with my Hunter! Who do you ride with?


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## liam1234 (Jul 16, 2011)

You and your horse seem like a great pair. He seems very scopey, and you will go a long way. Your position is very nice; good release and you stay with your horses motion, centered over his back and saddle. Just make sure that you don't come down on your horses back when jumping. And for your heel- yeah, it could be deeper, but couldn't ever other riders heels be deeper?


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

I like your position. Your seat is back and centered nicely over the saddle. You seem to be staying with the horse's motion quite well. You lower leg does slip back a bit (doesn't ALL of ours do that from time to time?), but it is not to the point of really destabilizing your position. Just be careful as you may be grabbing just a bit with your knees. Keep a tad bit more contact with the upper portion of the inside of your calf. 

As for the release....I don't mind a release where you are pressing into the top of the crest too much in stadium, but it is to be avoided on XC. You need to be able to allow more freedom to the horse, quickly, than that will allow. Try moving your hands to the sides of the crest instead. That way if the horse needs more release, you are able to give it. You are a very good rider and are ready to move to a more auto type release.

You have a nice scopey horse. However, he is not too tidy with his front end. I would do more gymnastic grids with two to three bounces incorporated to encourage him to learn to snap those knees a bit more.

Other than those nit-pickey observations, you guys look like a screaming nice team. I'm looking forward to seeing lots of updates from you.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

He has scope and you are riding him well. The thing that concerns me are his hanging knees and uneven knees. I know these are just "hops" for him but in the free jumping where there IS height he is doing it too. On Cross country a horse that does this has greater potential to hit a fence and turn over in the air. 

I would take him back a few steps in training and do GYMNASTICS where he bounces over a series of fences. Take him back and put a take off bar in front of your verticals and set up some Oxers as suggested. He looks like he needs the take off bar on the ground to help him find his 'spot.' 

I would also get him over some caveletti at a trot with a jump, a stride, another jump. The gymnastics are usually hard to do (rider and horse) but both will benefit from them.


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## caseymyhorserocks (Apr 5, 2010)

I dont have much complaint on your riding! I agree with above- dont jump the jumps backwards!! And just be careful with the younger horses jumping them, it can lead to arthritis when older, but if you just started when she was 5 it should be fine, she looks well built. ;-) Good luck! Oh and if you were riding dressage your heels would be fine, but with jumping you would want them down just a tad bit more- but they arent to bad!


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## caseymyhorserocks (Apr 5, 2010)

Corporal said:


> I looked again at your pics--Does Capella really need a running martingale while you are jumping? I guess I'm a worrywart and don't want Any piece of equiment on that might interfere. It doesn't look as if he needs to keep his head down. =/ ?


Ah yes, I didnt see that! I totally agree- and I dont like running martingales- espically when jumping . . . What if they overjump and toss up their head a lot (well not your seasoned horse obviously but a green one) and as your horse is still learning (if i got that right) I really see no need to have one.. And i would love to see you and your horse jumping sometime!


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## jumanji321 (Dec 1, 2010)

caseymyhorserocks said:


> Ah yes, I didnt see that! I totally agree- and I dont like running martingales- espically when jumping . . . What if they overjump and toss up their head a lot (well not your seasoned horse obviously but a green one) and as your horse is still learning (if i got that right) I really see no need to have one.. And i would love to see you and your horse jumping sometime!


It's funny because they pretty much are only legal for jumping in competitions. They are lot safer for jumping than a standing martingale though. I find mine very useful during fox hunting because no matter how much schooling I do, something about it makes my horse nuts.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

I went bac and looked at the photos and the running martingale on this horse is set up dangerously. ALWAYS put rein stops on the reins when using a running martingale so the rings of the martingale do not slip close to the bit. When they do, they can become stuck there and the horse can "hit" the martingale restriction and really get jammed up (or hurt). 

I knew someone who used a running martingale without rubber rein stops and they were in the line up waiting their turn to jump and the horse ducked his head and the martingale leather ended up in the horse's mouth.. the horse raised his head and felt suddenly trapped. Flipped out and over backward. Girl was killed. 

I rarely used a martingale. It was better to train the horse. I always used rein stops with a running martingale. Better to leave it off if you do not.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

YOWSER!! I didn't think your horse would _kill you_ with a running martingale. I just thought he might get a foot caught, panic and spill you. This is a great thread!! ...REALLY good discussion. You're gonna have a great partner for a long time with Capella!! **hugs**


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## wren (Dec 13, 2009)

Thanks for the comments everyone!
Originally we started Cappella in a running not only because he was tossing his head, but also to help keep any hand jerks from me to more of a minimum. He jumps quite a big bigger and rounder than my last horse, so it was an adjustment. Anymore I normally take it off for practice and stadium. But like Jumanji said, for hunts and hunter paces he gets way pumped and high headed again.
I do actually have keepers on both bridles, they are just pushed closer to his nose than is probably good. You can see the little pointy parts of them sticking up. I know martingales are one of those controversial pieces of equipment sometimes, but its what my trainer suggested. :think:

I think Gymnastics are a great plan for him for the winter. We are also going to work on coming in straight and stop the wiggles! At our event last week he came into two of the stadium jumps like a worm! I actually just ordered Jimmy Woffard's book on gymnastics, so hopefully that gives us some good exercises. I always look forward to winter again so we can get all teh major work done before show season starts back up again.


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## wren (Dec 13, 2009)

Allison Finch said:


> I like your position. Your seat is back and centered nicely over the saddle. You seem to be staying with the horse's motion quite well. You lower leg does slip back a bit (doesn't ALL of ours do that from time to time?), but it is not to the point of really destabilizing your position. Just be careful as you may be grabbing just a bit with your knees. Keep a tad bit more contact with the upper portion of the inside of your calf.
> 
> As for the release....I don't mind a release where you are pressing into the top of the crest too much in stadium, but it is to be avoided on XC. You need to be able to allow more freedom to the horse, quickly, than that will allow. Try moving your hands to the sides of the crest instead. That way if the horse needs more release, you are able to give it. You are a very good rider and are ready to move to a more auto type release.
> 
> ...


Thanks Allison! I was hoping you'd have a chance to take a look. I think my favorite riding quote ever came from my instructor about gripping with my knees..."Stop gripping with your knees and show me ****ty legs! Open those thighs!" :lol: Sorry for any young ears, but man it made me laugh. and helped me remember....


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## wren (Dec 13, 2009)

jumpwhat007 said:


> I'm about to TOTALLY creep for a hot second. The jumping picture at the Delaware Fairgrounds! Haha. I show at the Showtime Series every year with my Hunter! Who do you ride with?


Yeah, its delaware! We actually didn't show up there this year. Maybe next year when my nothing-but-legs-and-speed boy learns what a 5 stride line is. :lol: We went up to school a couple of times and i loved it! i love the variety of jumps, and its just so nice and pretty.
I ride with a small trainer who mostly does eventers over on the west side of town. Where do you ride?


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## jumpwhat007 (Apr 10, 2009)

I ride with Julia Gillum at Baycrest. Over near johnstown. But u also have an ex evener that I keep at a little farm in Delaware.


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