# Is it really that simple? And a question



## Jumpehunter (Jul 29, 2011)

How is he with bathing does he not mind his feet being wet ? One thing that really helps is if you have an out door arena after it rains ride in the puddles. I had this arab from Arizona that would refuse to walk in any puddle any size when under saddle took me a half hour one time to walk through a puddle. or if its the running water he doesn't like then run the hose or have somebody dump a bucket during bucket cleaning time at your horses feet and walk them in and out .


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

ATPH,

I hope you have a chance to tell Cherie how you have utilitzed her thread to great success. I wonder exactly what about that thread is so game changing for you?

When you think on this a bit, you may come to the conclusion that in horse training, especially for the less experienced rider, but really, for everyone, it's ourselves that we are really training. We work with ourselves, teaching ourselves to be more observant, more consistant, more sensitive to the horse's reaction and quicker to reward that all import try that the horse gives us. YOu are teaching yourself how to put more pressure on in that very moment when the horse isnt' sure and is about to waver into making her own decisions. You are training yourself! 

So the idea that you will be able to have 100% obedience would mean that you all of a sudden become perfect! How likely is that going to happen?
If you were a horse, and you were riding yourself, you'd be a lot more generous with your praise for the tries that you are now making. Treat yourself at least as good as you'd treat any horse.!


----------



## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

AllThePrettyHorses said:


> Is experience and exposure all it takes? Surely it can't be so straightforward as that?


As long as the "experience" half is positive experiences, sure it is that simple. I know it's easy for riders to feel they are the ones who are falling short where training their horses are concerned. While there is nothing to be gained by assigning blame anywhere, there is a lot to be gained by taking responsibility for you part in your horse's training. If you go out on the trails nervous and expecting your horse to act like a goof, that's pretty much what you're going to get. If, however, you go out confidently and handle each situation as it comes up in a positive manner, you're going to create a solid foundation with your horse quickly. Every time you go out, try to find situations that you know you can handle and work on those. It will give you a sense of accomplishment and her a sense of respect for you.

What I would do in your water situation is the same thing I do with my horse in any situation that he does not want to face. Simply keep her faced toward it and wait her out. Use alternating reins to keep her facing the water. Once she starts to act more interested in the water than putting up a fight, ask her to move forward gently. She'll either move forward or go back to fighting. If she does the first thing, reward her with lots of pats. If she does the second thing, keep alternating reins to keep her facing the water and wait it out again. Eventually she will figure out the only direction she can go is into the water and off she'll go. 

If it helps you at all, I didn't go on my first trail ride until I was 40 years old. Talk about green rider/green horse. I was somewhat experienced in the ring, but not at all on trails. He was a 5 year old off track Thoroughbred. Bad combo!! Luckily my horse was a saint because I was a wreck. It took awhile, but through lots of knowledge and small victories, we have become a good pair out there. Other than the odd deer jumping out in front of us, we do pretty well and my confidence is sky high. You post a lot on here and ask some very good questions. I'm sure you will get there.


----------



## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

Really, miles and miles is the secret for developing confidence in yourself and your horse.

Water crossings sometimes is a tougher one to work on mainly because we don't like getting our own feet wet. It's best to work on them young and not even riding age I've found. I'll pony them along right behind an older horse and generally they'll hop right in. If not, well my older horse is strong enough to drag them in, generally takes one drag for them to learn to go. For adult horses though...

-First of all, just like a young one try getting her to follow another horse through. If that works then while you have a riding partner cross, cross, cross and cross until it no longer is an issue.

-If that doesn't work then comes the getting your feet wet part. Get off and lead her across. If she follows then lead her back and forth until she no longer hesitates before stepping in. Take her back to the side you started on, jump on and ask her to cross. Repeat until she does as you ask.

-If leading her across doesn't work you have to go back to the barn and do some ground work with her. She needs to be at the point she will follow you wherever you go with no questions. This is actually very important for trail horses and often over looked. In tough going it's often safer to dismount and lead your horse, last thing you want is your horse balking on the side of a mountain with a 12" wide trail.


----------



## AllThePrettyHorses (Dec 15, 2010)

When I'm leading her, she follows absolutely anywhere I go. It's when I'm _on_ her that she fights the water crossing.


----------



## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

Jumpehunter said:


> How is he with bathing does he not mind his feet being wet ? One thing that really helps is if you have an out door arena after it rains ride in the puddles. I had this arab from Arizona that would refuse to walk in any puddle any size when under saddle took me a half hour one time to walk through a puddle. or if its the running water he doesn't like then run the hose or have somebody dump a bucket during bucket cleaning time at your horses feet and walk them in and out .


It's those darn horse eating puddles! Maybe it's just Arabian horses. LOL

My wife's horse, an Arab cross, will go into ponds, cross creeks and streams, but hates puddles. 

To get a horse to cross water, either pony it across several times or just keep it facing the water and reward any try to go towards it, even if it's just putting their head down to check it out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Darrin said:


> -If that doesn't work then comes the getting your feet wet part. Get off and lead her across.


I would strongly suggest that you don't do this. I've seen too many green riders get hurt when trying to lead a horse across water. I've seen many horses suddenly spring forward and actually run over the rider. That is besides the fact that you are teaching the horse that if he refuses long enough, you'll get off.


----------



## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

iridehorses said:


> I would strongly suggest that you don't do this. I've seen too many green riders get hurt when trying to lead a horse across water. I've seen many horses suddenly spring forward and actually run over the rider. That is besides the fact that you are teaching the horse that if he refuses long enough, you'll get off.


Yes, if you don't watch out your horse can jump and land on you. Of course you don't turn your back and blindly lead them. 

And no, you are not teaching your horse you'll get off if they balk long enough. Read the whole thing I wrote, you go back to your starting point, get on and ride them across. They are not getting away with anything and learning bad habits. I've done this plenty, the person who showed me has done this plenty, etc, etc. It works. I've seen you post this comment before and it's just plain wrong.

Alltheprettyhorses- Right now she's afraid of crossing the water. By getting off and leading her back and forth you are showing her she has nothing to fear. This does two things, proves that she has nothing to fear and secondly builds her confidence in your leadership. Keep this up and soon she'll go just because she trusts your judgement more then her own.


----------



## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Sounds reasonable but NO, it is too dangerous regardless of your experience.

And YES, you are teaching your horse. Every time you interact with a horse you are teaching it something.

If those things have worked for you, so be it but I would never, ever suggest it to a rider, green or otherwise.


----------



## AllThePrettyHorses (Dec 15, 2010)

Darrin said:


> Alltheprettyhorses- Right now she's afraid of crossing the water.


See, I'm not sure if she's really even afraid. She _has_ crossed water before, she's crossed deep rivers with current (when she was still with the trainer)-she will go into the pond and the creek of her own accord when she's in the field. I don't get the feeling that she's afraid of it-I get the feeling that now that she's won (or thinks she's won) a few times, now she wants to, as Cherie would say "fight for the right to keep resisting".

I will try to pony her off the older, broke horse and see if that helps at all. 

She will go through puddles and such, but she just tries to skirt around the edges whenever possible, which is another reason I don't think she's fearful. She WILL go, I just have to argue with her about it. The deeper and wider the water, the more she resists.

Should I walk her back and forth across it repeatedly? Or, as many times as it takes until she's going quietly?


----------



## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

ATPH, if she crossed for the trainer, then it may be her lack of respect for you. I would suggest going to your trainer and let him/her work with the 2 of you for a couple of lessons.


----------



## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

If it's not necessary to walk through the puddle - why do it?

Seriously folks. If your horse crosses the rivers, walks into ponds and lakes, what is the big deal about making a horse walk in a puddle?

I have former endurance horses with thousands of miles on them. I also have working cow horses that know to go where I point them. They will cross fast moving rivers but sometimes they step around a puddle. I don't ruin a trail ride by forcing them.


----------



## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Sometimes that puddle is in the middle of the trail and the only way to continue is through it. Besides, it is a matter of who is leading who - I don't give my horse options. This is the way we are going - period. I don't want them to think that if they see something they don't want to approach or cross, that they don't have to.


----------



## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

iridehorses said:


> Sometimes that puddle is in the middle of the trail and the only way to continue is through it. Besides, it is a matter of who is leading who - I don't give my horse options. This is the way we are going - period. I don't want them to think that if they see something they don't want to approach or cross, that they don't have to.


If the puddle is the trail, it's not really a puddle but part of the trail.


----------



## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

mls said:


> If it's not necessary to walk through the puddle - why do it?
> 
> Seriously folks. If your horse crosses the rivers, walks into ponds and lakes, what is the big deal about making a horse walk in a puddle?
> 
> .


I'm with you on this one. I don't get the idea that the horse has to be constantly following the rider's wishes when out trail riding. If we're just rolling along enjoying the scenery, my horse is free to walk zig-zag if he wants. I feel that many people don't give their horses enough credit for understanding when they're free to enjoy the ride and when it's time to pay attention. When we enounter anything in the distance such as an animal for potential obstacle to jump, the first thing my horse does it put and ear back toward me looking for input on what we're going to do. 

If the OPs horse walks willingly through water when she's not in the saddle, but won't when she's in it, the horse is putting her on. I would not get off and lead the horse across simply because you have much more control from the saddle than on the ground.


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

mls said:


> If it's not necessary to walk through the puddle - why do it?
> 
> Seriously folks. If your horse crosses the rivers, walks into ponds and lakes, what is the big deal about making a horse walk in a puddle?


I'm with Iride on this one. I don't force them to weave around to walk through every single puddle I see, but I don't allow them to weave around to walk _around_ them either. I tell the horse where to go and if that includes walking through a puddle, then "no" isn't an option. If I planned to let _him_ make the decision on what to do and where to go, why bother training him under saddle to start with:?? Getting a horse to the point where they will walk through whatever happens to be in the road, whether it's a mud puddle or a tarp or a funky looking patch in the road can save a lot of grief and even injuries later.

The horse that so nonchalantly "skirts" the edge of the small puddle at a walk will _dodge_ to the side to avoid a big puddle at the faster gaits. Not everyone can ride those and even those that can may not be able to ride them every time.

To the OP. I also suspect that it's more of a respect issue with your mare. Lots and lots of proper riding and lots of exposure will make it better. To put it simply...yes, it _is_ as easy as lots of wet saddle pads and buttloads of exposure. Of course, some horses, especially those with a natural nervous disposition, will always be a bit spooky or hot and many times that cannot be trained out of them, only managed. Most horses are not like that though, most get better and better every ride or every time they are exposed to a certain thing.


----------



## SailorGriz (Nov 28, 2010)

I had a real problem with not being in control of Mr. Big for most of our first year together. Yeah, he'd go more or less where I said, but only more or less. If he didn't want to go over or through something, he didn't. And I was too inexperienced to know any better.

Then I spent a week packing into the Wilderness with a very experienced old Sourdough. He set me straight in a hurry! He said that *I* picked the trail, NOT the horse. The horse's job was to take me there by MY selected route. It really came to a head when Big wouldn't cross an easy log; he wanted to go around and I was going to let him. Old Sourdough called me up short on that one! Took maybe 10 minutes, but he crossed. And crossed every log after that. Still does--unless it really IS too high which sometimes happens.

Fixing Big's bad trail manners took a combination of lots of hours in the saddle and a bit of instruction from someone who really wouldn't take "no" for an answer from a horse. Between the two, Big is now a pretty fine trail horse. OK, he's a bit slow, sometimes, but we're working on that, too!

The one exception to going where I say is when the going gets REALLY rough and I let him decide if there is an easier way--after all, he's the one walking through it. But even then he has to get to the right spot. The spot *I* pick, not the spot he picks!

Is it really as easy as just spending lots of saddle hours? Pretty much--but having someone who can push you, the rider, to make your horse behave helps a LOT!

And about puddles in the trail. It's just plain bad trail etiquette to go around them. Going around tends to widen out the trail and that makes all the anti-horse people get their undies in a wad. And then they complain and try to shut down riding areas. Best to just let your horse get his/her feet wet!


----------



## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

mls said:


> If it's not necessary to walk through the puddle - why do it?
> 
> Seriously folks. If your horse crosses the rivers, walks into ponds and lakes, what is the big deal about making a horse walk in a puddle?
> 
> I have former endurance horses with thousands of miles on them. I also have working cow horses that know to go where I point them. They will cross fast moving rivers but sometimes they step around a puddle. I don't ruin a trail ride by forcing them.


 Because when you go around something in front of them then they try and go around things all the time so when you don't want them to go around it they don't listen to you and a fight ensues. You look ahead and go straight ahead.


----------



## pintophile (May 18, 2011)

Is it really that simple? Basically. Time and miles will improve both your confidence(...s?) and will increase your trust in one another. A confident rider helps speed the process along, but that will come with time and experience, and the more you do it.

One mistake I always used to make when I was crossing or approaching something potentially scary is that I would always look at it and focus on it and think to myself "I need to get near this" or "We need to cross this". What I have learned helps far more is to look straight ahead and try to ride like there's nothing there, or nothing out of the ordinary so you don't unconsciously encourage your horse to freeze up and lock onto the thing as well. I always just use pressure-release to get horses across water. If you don't make a big, scary, stressful production out of it and keep doing it frequently and casually, your mare should learn to deal with it just as she will learn to deal with other things on the trail.


----------



## AllThePrettyHorses (Dec 15, 2010)

Thank you everyone! I finally rode today.

I got my friend over to ride the quiet older pony while I was on my mare. I switched bits so that my horse had the kimberwick. I really dislike just bitting them up and having to use force for control, but to me it didn't make much sense to have the quieter, easier horse in the harsher bit while the one who was more likely to give us problems was in the snaffle. So I figured that if I have the bit, I might as well use it.

We started off and already my horse powered to the front. We rode across plowed field (she slowed herself accordingly), then decided to trot them for a while in one of the big open fields to get their energy worked out. My horse was okay at first, but about halfway down the field, she started getting faster and faster and more: "OMG this is FUN!" and began breaking into little canter strides. 

So I picked a corner of the field and did circles. Lots and lots and lots and lots of circles. At moments she seemed to be settling (she would give a big sigh and lower her head and even out), but then the next second, she'd be fighting for speed again. She actually crow hopped twice which really surprised me since it's been so long since she's last tried anything like that. But, when she did, I took her around and around and around in really small circles and made her work. Though I don't like to admit it, I think there may have been a pretty good chance that I was sending her conflicting signals and confused/frustrated her. That's no excuse for behaviour like that, but...I am willing to acknowledge she didn't do it out of meanness.

Eventually, she settled. Not really, she was still pretty...eager...to be out, but at least she was not trying to bomb around with her head in the air. My friend (who had been sitting patiently waiting while I worked with my horse) and I went on. I stuck my horse, because she likes to power walk and get so far ahead, right behind the pony's plodding little butt. My friend trotted the pony ahead to make room so that my horse wouldn't be riding her up behind, and I'm pretty happy that my mare didn't try to follow. She walked more briskly and said she wanted to trot a couple times, but a gentle check with the reins or a bend around my leg and she fell back to walk and didn't make a fuss.

It was really windy today, so we went back to the forest to get out of the bitter cold. As soon as we got in the trees, it was like a switch went off and my horse slowed down, paid attention to me and was just awesome. We went down (and up) fairly steep, snowy hills and across water/ice. I took pintophile's advice and didn't look at the water/ice, but held her steady with my reins and legs so she couldn't bulge out, and she went over it all. 

Alas, as soon as we emerged onto open field again, she was back to her eager beaver self, but it was manageable. We had no choice but to come home by the road, so I put the pony between her and traffic, and though at first she raised her head and got a bit insecure when cars passed, the pony was a huge help and a really calming influence.

We did a bit of schooling when we got home. She wasn't the best she's been, but she was good enough so I was satisfied to end it.

I am fairly happy with how she behaved. Besides the trotting/field incident, she was good. No spooking, she never bolted or ran away with me, she was really good about listening to all my cues (though she got a little bargy when we were trotting in the field).

I know that the trainer who broke her liked to take her riding up north in the national parks, so I guess it's natural that she is good at forest riding. But around our house, we mostly have open fields so I'd like her to be better about that. 

How can I get her to calm down when in the open? I really don't run her, she can't be anticipating galloping off, but it seems that she is. 

And how do I get her better and quieter and easier about trotting (this mostly goes along with the question above), mostly in the open?

Do I just ride her lots and get her lots of experience in the open? What can I do to ensure success?


----------



## AllThePrettyHorses (Dec 15, 2010)

Oh, also: out on the trail today, she really didn't want to stand still. She would for a short amount of time, then decide she would rather be going and would try to move off. I backed her up every time she moved without being told (it seemed to have little effect) and she didn't fuss about that or being pulled back to a halt, but she just wanted to go. I really dislike horses who won't stand still, so this is another thing I really want to work on. Will she become less eager and goey the more she gets out, as long as I keep correcting her for every infraction?


----------



## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

AllThePrettyHorses said:


> Will she become less eager and goey the more she gets out, as long as I keep correcting her for every infraction?


The short answer is "Yes".


----------



## AllThePrettyHorses (Dec 15, 2010)

iridehorses said:


> The short answer is "Yes".


That goes for the raciness too? The excitability? The unfocused...ness? The insecurity/excitement in the open?


----------



## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

The more time, patience, and consistency, you put on your horse, the better he will get. The moment you slip and let him do what he wants because you don't have time to correct him or you just get tired of correcting him - then you lose and he takes a few steps backwards in his training. If you don't have the inclination or time to correct him, don't ride that day.


----------



## Ladytrails (Jul 28, 2010)

My TWH is a finished trail horse and I know she goes through water because I believe the guy who sold her to me  and I've had her go through water on organized trail rides for me. 

On pasture riding or other casual riding with water, my trick with first timers is to approach the water crossings on my way home and only if I have time to sit there in the saddle till the cows come home. Works about 100% of the time, with the pressure-release technique as needed. 

Having said that, I have to confess that there is this one little puddle in the gateway to the neighbor's pasture that I still haven't gotten her to walk through when there's water in it. One foot, maybe, but not power through. 

At first I was worried that she wouldn't go through any puddles or water for me, but I found that she will go through whatever on the trail, if it's on the trail.... she's just thinking it doesn't make sense to go through that puddle when there's 12 feet of grass all around it. The only time I have trouble with her now is in truly boggy marshy wetlands - she is looking for a better crossing and we have to discuss it on occasion. As we've gotten the hours on the trail, though, she's better and better about accepting that she can trust me to not ask the impossible.


----------



## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

I'm inclined to allow the horse to skirt a puddle, just the same as a human would, really, if it's unnecessary to get wet feet. You can _make _the horse go thru it, but the horse won't think better of you for it. However, there's another option, which is to make a game out of it, to habituate the horse to go through the water that you ask it to: hold a treat at the other side of the puddle, & give it to her if she goes through it. Sounds to me like she's not scared (since she goes through any water on trail), so she's probably a more food-motivated type, who'd love this game! I'd also then give her a treat from ahorseback after she cooperates that way.


----------



## Ladytrails (Jul 28, 2010)

You know, I've given treats to reward her for other things, mostly in the arena (standing for mounting, standing ground-tied, etc.) but I realize that I have never done it with that puddle! I'll give that a try, if she'll put a foot in there! Thanks for the idea.


----------



## AllThePrettyHorses (Dec 15, 2010)

iridehorses said:


> The more time, patience, and consistency, you put on your horse, the better he will get. The moment you slip and let him do what he wants because you don't have time to correct him or you just get tired of correcting him - then you lose and he takes a few steps backwards in his training. If you don't have the inclination or time to correct him, don't ride that day.


But what did I do wrong today? I feel like I failed-I didn't get her totally focused on or listening to me, I didn't get her really slow and relaxed trotting, I allowed her/caused her to crowhop...she's just so UP, so full of energy, and I feel frustrated with myself because I don't know how to properly react to that. 

What could I have done better today? What can I do to be a better rider next time?


----------



## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

When she's "up", you match that, plus 4 ounces! Reverse psychology works with horses; after you say, oh, let me help you run up hill & down dale, over obstacles, etc., she'll say, can't we slow down?  The worst thing to do is try & squelch her energy.


----------



## Ladytrails (Jul 28, 2010)

You haven't convinced me that you did anything wrong, really. She was fresh and she had company, so the situation was different from some of the other times you've ridden. Sounds like you got her settled down a bit, all in the right direction, you did what you set out to do and came home safely, all in one piece, calmer than when you started out. A lot of people would say that's a gold star day! 

My horse is antsy when we first start out and can be go-ey off and on. It's her one big flaw....and we're working on it. A gaited horse trainer gave us some really good advice. As long as she is walking (even though it's faster than we want) I don't punish her or try to shut her down. Instead, I sort of 'milk' the reins one at a time, in slightly slower rhythm than her leading foot. Not really pulling back but just firmer contact for a second. That soft action is enough to allow herself to calm herself down and slow down some, naturally. It really works. If we have room, I've done the circles, too, but she could do circles for an hour without getting tired so that's not as effective as 'milking' the reins or simply halting and pausing until she lowers her head and licks and chews. 

Hang in there, it sounds to me like you're doing a lot right!


----------



## AllThePrettyHorses (Dec 15, 2010)

Northern said:


> When she's "up", you match that, plus 4 ounces! Reverse psychology works with horses; after you say, oh, let me help you run up hill & down dale, over obstacles, etc., she'll say, can't we slow down?  The worst thing to do is try & squelch her energy.


She is most definitely the type of horse who can just go..and go...and go...and go faster, faster, faster. FOR example, when we trotted today, it started alright, but as we kept going, she just got more and more excited, and decided she liked the addition of speed and began fighting to go into a canter. She can literally go for hours, and even if she's wanting to lay down and die, if you ask her for more, she'll give it. The faster and more uncontrolled you get with her, the more stupid and unfocused and excited she becomes. Even if I did run her into the ground until she was dead tired and ready to collapse (~6 hours later..), I am willing to bet anything she'd just be ready to do it again tomorrow, and she'd anticipate it then.

So then, I'm left with a dilemma. I can't just run her around out of control, or she just learns that she _can_ run around out of control and it's real easy. I need to work with her on better control (clearly) and regulation of speed, but I can't do that when she's full of wind and **** or I won't achieve anything. I also can't really stifle her energy and speed and excitement, or we get a crowhop like I did today-eh, yesterday.

But, I think you are on to something with the rough terrain. I think that's why she's so much quieter in the forest, with the rocks and water and steep hills, and turns in the path-she needs to be kept busy, and the challenges in the forest just do that naturally for her. On the open ground, the only challenges are the plowed fields, and even over those, she does slow and concentrate a little bit. 

Do you think I should spend a lot of time just riding her over plowed ground? Then, when she's (hopefully) a little quieter, with a little less energy, and a little more experienced with being 'out', I should reintroduce her to flat, wide open ground?



Ladytrails said:


> You haven't convinced me that you did anything wrong, really. She was fresh and she had company, so the situation was different from some of the other times you've ridden. Sounds like you got her settled down a bit, all in the right direction, you did what you set out to do and came home safely, all in one piece, calmer than when you started out. A lot of people would say that's a gold star day!
> 
> Hang in there, it sounds to me like you're doing a lot right!


Maybe...I just don't feel like I am  I am never happy with how I did. There always seems to me to have been something I could have done better, something a more experienced rider could have achieved that I didn't.

Everything that my horse does, everything that happens just suggests to me that my horse is not well trained, that she needs a better rider. I know nothing comes instantly, but...I still get frustrated that I'm not good enough.



> My horse is antsy when we first start out and can be go-ey off and on. It's her one big flaw....and we're working on it. A gaited horse trainer gave us some really good advice. As long as she is walking (even though it's faster than we want) I don't punish her or try to shut her down. Instead, I sort of 'milk' the reins one at a time, in slightly slower rhythm than her leading foot. Not really pulling back but just firmer contact for a second. That soft action is enough to allow herself to calm herself down and slow down some, naturally. It really works. If we have room, I've done the circles, too, but she could do circles for an hour without getting tired so that's not as effective as 'milking' the reins or simply halting and pausing until she lowers her head and licks and chews.


I think I may try this. When you get too much in her mouth, my horse gets frustrated and doesn't like you just pulling. Do you think this will work with her?


----------



## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

AllThePrettyHorses said:


> That goes for the raciness too? The excitability? The unfocused...ness? The insecurity/excitement in the open?


You might want to consider only asking her to stand still when she is prepared to do it and only asking her to do it for ALMOST as long as she can. Horses that have a lot of go can build up some anxiety when they are made to stand longer than they are mentally prepared for. When I ride a horse like that I like to build in leg yields as soon as possible. Then when the horse can't stand still I can leg yield them and back them up and turn them on either end and just work on general handiness. This has two effects, first, it allows the horse to move its feet but does so in a way that is physically difficult for the horse. The horse will soon decide that it is much easier to just stand quietly than to do all that work. Second, the horse learns to wait on you for what to do next rather than filling in and deciding for himself what to do. I'm a very large man and I can't FORCE a horse to do much and I surely can't force one to hold still from the saddle but with proper training I can DIRECT the energy or life in a more positive and acceptable direction. Before long you'll have a horse that will stand still AND move his body any way you want him too.

As far as the water crossing, the first thing you should do is take your watch off and throw it in the water. That way you won't know how much time you're "wasting" trying to get across. Second, don't give up EVER. Your horse will get tired of fighting you and cross the water. It may seem like no progress is being made but as long as you control your emotions and don't get angry, nervous or frustrated then you will win. I apply pressure when the horse is moving any direction but forward and as soon as the horse moves forward or even thinks hard about it then I release the pressure. If the horse is staring intently at the water then I allow it to stand but as soon as its mind wanders (doesn't take long) then I expect a forward step and the pressure stays on until that step is taken. If the horse backs up five steps then I may ask for 4 steps before the pressure is taken off but I always try to take the pressure off before the forward movement stops. I rarely takes more than 15 minutes anymore for me to get a horse to cross but I remember as a kid how frustrating it was to not be able to cross a stream or ditch or walk past something "scarey" on the trail. Luckily, I had a dad that would pull me off my horse warm up my rear end and throw me back up in the saddle if I got whiney or crying so I learned there was no place for those types of reactions when riding.


----------



## Ladytrails (Jul 28, 2010)

ATPH, yes, I think the technique I use can work for you. It's not just for gaited horses; it was shown to me by a dressage-trained clinician who trains gaited horses and their owners. You can use the 'milking' of the reins along with the techniques that Kevin explains - make her think about where she's putting her feet by asking for the leg yields as Kevin describes. I taught my horse to half pass by doing that our first summer together to channel her energy.... which contributes to what Kevin describes as 'general handiness'.


----------



## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

Yes, I had in mind to put her to obstacles, so she'll start to use her mind in negotiating them, to cause her to want to slow down. You're right in your observation that she thinks better with obstacles to negotiate. 

It's great that you want to progress, but getting down on yourself for mistakes isn't the way! You learn from recalling your successes! Plus, your horse knows that you care, which is more important than how much you know!


----------



## AllThePrettyHorses (Dec 15, 2010)

Ah, a much better ride today. I knew as soon as I got her out that we were going to have a quieter time than on Saturday. I didn't ride yesterday as it was raining, but I guess one day off is better than the week off she had before Saturday's ride.

I worked with her in the shop yard a bit, getting her moving off my leg and yielding and such, and then we went for a 'hack', as the English people call it. I rode her down the ditch towards the corner, trotted a little bit, and put her in the soft, deep plowed stuff when she started to get fast. The whole ride, she was very forwards, but that's just her and that's something I will need to learn to just deal with. Besides, she never tried to trot without a cue or run away-the worst she did was do her little power-walk thing.

She went along looking around, but in mild curiosity-not frantic, head straight up, nervous looking around. When we got to my dad's little patch of unplowed field down the road, we trotted a little and she was a bit fast, but I rode with one rein and kept her bent and she went alright on a loose rein. As we turned in the direction of home, she would power-walk off, so I had her circle and serpentine and meander our way back. I felt like, at one point in time, she used to get more worked up by stuff like this, but I think because today I stayed really calm and confident in myself, it had a positive effect.

I put her in the ditch on the other side of the road coming home, which is really rough and uneven, and the hard terrain made her really focus. Since she had been so eager to get home, when we got there, I did some schooling with her. It went decent, but not great, until I realized that I was being way too fussy with her mouth and I was a bit tense in my seat, so I did my best to correct myself and she went much, much better. I still have trouble just throwing my reins away. Even if I give her a big draped rein when she lowers her head and she's moving along nicely, I am always preparing myself to snatch it back up and correct her. I really need to work on that (among other things) with my trainer this weekend. 

So, all in all, the only thing I really have to complain about is her desire to get home, or turn for home. What can I do about that? Besides that, I don't really have any problem with how either of us acted today. I think we did pretty good considering our limited experience, and I couldn't have asked for better under the circumstances.

:lol: I am going to have to go back to my trainer with a whole list of issues we need to work on. Oh well...I guess that's what I pay her to do. Answer my silly questions.


----------

