# Who doesn't clean stalls so manure piles up then feeds on the manure to prevent colic



## Amir (Nov 18, 2009)

That is so unhealthy... Very lazy IMO. If they're that worried about horses getting sand colic, just use straw bedding over the rubber mats.

It's only false business practices if in the signed contract it states that they are to clean the stalls daily or every two days etc.
As for the water, again, they're only liable if it's in the contract that they refill and clean water troughs daily.

Glad you were able to get your horse out of there! I would be putting the word out to people I know to stay clear of that place.
Also, good on you for taking photos of this. Never know if you may need some evidence.


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## delynn (Nov 2, 2010)

*Who doesn't clean stalls and feeds on manure? continue...*

The photos are not my stalls or my horses. The photos are of other boarders stalls and horses but the water was both my horses water. I'm grossed out!:-o:-?


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## delynn (Nov 2, 2010)

*Who doesn't clean manure then feeds on it?*

Thanks for your support!



Amir said:


> That is so unhealthy... Very lazy IMO. If they're that worried about horses getting sand colic, just use straw bedding over the rubber mats.
> 
> It's only false business practices if in the signed contract it states that they are to clean the stalls daily or every two days etc.
> As for the water, again, they're only liable if it's in the contract that they refill and clean water troughs daily.
> ...


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

What you were saying did not make sense to me until I saw the photos. I could not figure out how anyone would say that leaving manure would help prevent colic. Now I at least get what they are saying. The stalls (not what I would call a stall, since there are not roofs but each to their own) have loose sand flooring so they are saying a layer of manure will make a base that is not sand.
As gross as it sounds it does make sense. Manure is just organic matter. 

Lack of water shown would only get my panties bunched if I knew more about it. How long had it been empty, etc?

When I go out to feed and clean in the AM my pony has 1/4 bucket of water left. 10 minutes later, by the time she is done with her grain and I turn her out her bucket is empty. 


Good job removing your horse from a situation where the practices were not what you agreed were appropriate for your horse.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Wow and just when I thought I'd heard almost everything, this crops up.

For starters, that is NOT a horse corral - it's barely big enough for a big dog --- sorry to the BO's and anyone that thinks that tiny space is an acceptable place to keep a horse:-(

Too bad they can't get shut down but that probably won't happen. At least you got your horse out of there -----------------why I hate boarding situations.

All they're interesed in is the almighty dollar and could care less about the horses folks have entrusted their care to:-x


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## SugarPlumLove (Dec 27, 2009)

Sorry maybe it's just me but the only thing I don't agree with the injuries.

As for the manure I didn't see a whole lot. It didn't look that bad to me. 
And for water my horse liked to dump the buckets over then she just puts them back upright. I've watched her do that a couple times until I tied the bucket to the fence. Those buckets are also still wet so she couldn't have been without water for to long.

What kinds of injuries did she get?


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

SugarPlumLove said:


> As for the manure I didn't see a whole lot. It didn't look that bad to me.


That was what I thought too.
One horse, closed in a 12x12 space for 24 hours can make that much of a manure pile easily.


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## Jacksmama (Jan 27, 2010)

Now, I have been told that you can feed a horse fresh manure to restore a healthy bacteria balance in the intestines after a bad colic, etc....but letting it build up so it's blocking the sandy floor is crap, quite literally. Was it in the contract for them to clean the stalls? If I were paying for full board I would expect a picking at least every other day, every day if my horse were stalled the majority of the time, but that is something you have to discuss with the BO. I actually moved my horse when they stopped taking Jacks blanket off in the mornings(it had been agreed upon), they weren't turning him out at all, and I found him without water twice.


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## ptvintage (Feb 12, 2010)

It's a good thing you left if you didn't agree with it.

How many hours are the horses in these "stalls" daily? 

The bigger issue to me is that the "stall" has no roof, and walls that provide no protection. I don't understand the point of that. It's not a shelter, so there's no reason to bring the horse into it, unless it's just to feed and turn right back out.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Amir said:


> Glad you were able to get your horse out of there! I would be putting the word out to people I know to stay clear of that place.
> Also, good on you for taking photos of this. Never know if you may need some evidence.


Evidence of what? 

Lack of water - nope. Both of the water tubs have wet spots. By looking at the photos, it's a warm, arid climate. 

Standing in manure? - For all we know, the horses eat in those pipe stalls and get turned back out into a larger turnout. The manure appears to be dry - not fresh and piled.

Feeding on manure? - Who doesn't know a horse or a dozen that love to manure on their hay? 

"Her horses" - The OP also stated these were NOT her horses.


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## jethroish (Sep 19, 2009)

You did the right thing getting your horse out of there.
Unless you incurred medical expenses from their negligence, I don't believe there is anything you can do other than warn other potential boarders of the risks.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Actually those "pens" are pretty clean IMHO. I kept my horse in one barn for several days (I moved her as soon as I found another place withing my distance and price range), the stall had 2+ feet(!) of old manure piled up. It took me 3 hours and like 7 barrels out to clean may be 1 foot of that 10x10 stall, AND the rest of manure was so compressed I couldn't dig it out. :twisted: 

However absence of water (even if there are wet spots) is a big warning sign about the facility. Personally I'd move my horse right on spot 2nd time I'd find her out without any water.


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## zaudika (Nov 7, 2010)

Full Board? I hope when you say you were paying full board, it was a super cheap full board. 

Full board in my opinion means a safe enclosed stall (with a ROOF), cleaning, feeding, and fresh water at all times. Not to mention if I'm paying enough for it, daily turn out where a horse can move for than a few feet at a time. Gracious. 

Sounds like you made a VERY VERY good decision to move.


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## Buckcherry (Nov 18, 2010)

I do not understand the whole make shift "stall" outside with no shelter...is it just for feeding or is this where your horse was kept.
The stalls are not that dirty my horses can come and go in their stalls all day and their stalls look like that after a few hours...And my horses also love to pee and poo on their hay..
And being as the water bucket is kind of small the horse could have drank it all. 
But it probably was best that you moved


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

I'm not sure where many of you live, but in the southwestern part of the U.S., 'stalls' like these are not unusual. 

In fact, there are places that have rows upon rows of pipe panels set up, and these are considered horse stalls, for which owners pay full board prices.

Not everything goes by the east coast standard of a 3 sided, roofed building with a door, to describe a stall.

In places where there's minimal rainfall and the climate is temperate to desert, there's no need to have a solid wood barn.

Of course, their hay prices will give you apoplexy, since it has to be trucked in from other states.


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

Those pens are anything but clean.........IMO if they are not picked every 24 hours and picked completely clean ......then they are not clean enough for my horses or my boarders horses.

Feeding on manure can be just as bad as feeding on sand. Manure is a breeding ground for worms.......maybe their horse died of impaction colic due to an over abundance of worms?

I would be using big tubs tied to the pipe to feed out of.

I personally never feed of the ground.......only feed in stalls.

Super Nova


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Super Nova, you NEVER give your horses hay in turnout? That's certainly feeding off the ground, you know.

My horses get fed off the ground quite a bit. Hasn't made them drop over from sand colic, or stuffed them full of worms. If you have a good handle on your deworming program, there's no reason to think your animals are going to die from worm overload just from being fed off the ground.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

I have seen those types of 'stalls' out west. To me, those look pretty good. I don't like horses not having access to water at all times but...it does look like those horses did have water in the recent past. 

Some people are just a bit too hard on their BO's. I understand that board is exceedingly expensive but so is keeping horses. You undoubtedly get what you pay for. If you don't, move on. 

OP, I don't think you have much of an abuse case here. I think the stalls look passable at worst and while the water situation is troubling, there is evidence that there was water there at one time. As far as your horse getting hurt every two weeks, that just happens some times. I don't see anything about those corrals that looks terribly unsafe. You provided your own solution. You left. If you were that terrible disgruntled, you should have spoke up before moving your horses.


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## Buckcherry (Nov 18, 2010)

Super Nova,
My horses eat their hay in their fields as well and they are just fine. although we have grass.. its not just dirt.
even if their stalls had been cleaned they could have pooped all in them in a matter of hours.

Speed racer,
I honestly have never seen stalls like that, if it is humid/hot don't they need at least some shelter to provide shade?!? I wouldn't want to pay to keep my horse in a small area out in the hot sun but thats just my opinion.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Buck, land is at a premium out west, and you'd be surprised what passes for livestock acreage and horse shelter out there.

I agree; it doesn't provide shelter, but then, it's not meant to. It's only meant to contain the animals. 

Turnout usually consists of a dirt lot, or if the horses are lucky, an area 1/2 acre in size or maybe a little larger.

Horse keeping in CA, TX, and AZ is nothing like how it's done in other parts of the country.


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## Buckcherry (Nov 18, 2010)

I guess it just makes me thankful for where I live.. And that we have grass ha ha..


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

You and me both! 

I know someone who bought a filly from out west. Poor thing had never seen grass in her whole 4 years of life, and didn't know how to react. She soon figured out it was good to eat. :wink:


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Super Nova said:


> Those pens are anything but clean.........IMO if they are not picked every 24 hours and picked completely clean ......then they are not clean enough for my horses or my boarders horses.


Nova, it very much depends on horse. If you walk into my qh's stall after one night (9 pm - 6 am) on those rainy days I put them in, her stall is nothing but a huge pile of manure, pee, and shavings all mixed up together in one nasty looking, dark brown "pillow" on floor (almost all shavings go into waste). Plus hay spread all over the top of it, and qh itself with manure patches over her (very nice when clean) coat.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Kitten, your QH's stall sounds like my appy mare's stall.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Kitten, your QH's stall sounds like my appy mare's stall.


Lol! From my experience many of them are pigs. And I've seen once the whole WALL pooped all over starting at the level of my head (and I'm 5'9"!) and down (in the barn I visited for the clinic). Actually the BO put my qh in that stall, and I couldn't figure out HOW she (14'3 hh) could manage to poop so high. I was told later it was there even before us....


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Feeding off the ground is the healthiest way for horses to eat - it's what they were built to do!

Feeding off manure, not so much - Agreed, worms would be my concern. 

Those yards (Not stalls where I live, those are yards) also don't look too bad. We use yards similar to that for overnight stays at most shows we go to and that's what mine look like after 12 hours!


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

I really do not see much wrong at all. Like was said, manure is just organic plant matter, and if the deworming program is up to snuff there isnt really much to worry about. If the manure id dried(as I suspect in the arid climate it takes only a short period of time for it to turn to poop bricks) and raked over the sand it really isnt that bad at all IMO. It isnt like people poop filled with fats and chemicals and stuff, just undigested plant fibers. not saying I bed with it, but in that situaton it really does not look harmful. 

Those corrals do not look bad to me at all and as has been said, out west very common, called "mare motels" sometimes. They are lagre enough for the horse to move around during the day while not being turned out.

The water buckets in question look like they were just emptied. Maybe it is just before watering rounds? Maybe the horses in question play in thier water buckets and splased most of it out and drank the rest?

I really do not see anything to get in a tizzy over. Are you just assuming all that you said or did you actually take the time to speak to the facility management about the situations you posted to find out reasons?

Sounds to me like you did not.


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## delynn (Nov 2, 2010)

Feeding on manure; allows manure to build a soft bed to feed horse on to help prevent colic? The boarding contract full board for cleaning stalls daily, water and feed twice daily and turn out; I found allot not done weekly. Horses were not fed on time was recycling their own manure. No one ever came to pick up manure. Nota! I was concerned about colic; if not feed on time or regularly an horse can become an agressive eater. One of their horse's died a couple of weeks ago from impaction colic. no water warmer; not checked on to see if water was being drank when weather changed; not meds for 2 days before death!


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## ladybugsgirl (Aug 12, 2009)

my horse would go nuts in a area that small. I use to work at a boarding stable and my boss would have fired every single one of us if we didn't check waterers, stalls weren't cleaned and horses were fed on ****...


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Here's a picture of one of the places I have boarded at/worked in Montana: 









You can see rows and rows of those types of 'stalls' they're really common and not make-shift at all. The hill and other surroundings give them a decent wind break and they're perfectly acceptable to me. It also doesn't look small. There is plenty of room there to move around and lay down. 

The pictures looked like a warm climate maybe new mexico, arizona, or something like that. The water who knows. I'm not going to judge off those pictures. 

I pictured like 2 feet of manure or something but I don't see that picture as being very bad. I dont think you have a leg to stand on for any sort of abuse case. 

As far as the stall being not picked out or injuries, I guess that's why it's so important to read your contract and ask questions before you sign. Better luck at your next place.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Speed Racer said:


> Horse keeping in CA, TX, and AZ is nothing like how it's done in other parts of the country.


You're tellin me!!!! So last year when I was in AZ, everyonce in a while I would see this little black horse...she would have tack on, so I thought, oh she got rid of her rider...I would try to catch her up but she would take off. Then one day I saw her out near another neighbor horse's paddock...she was there the entire day...I had decided if the owners didn't come and get her before nightfall I would try and catch her up, and put her in our extra pen. Nightfall came, and she was still out there, so I grabbed a bucket of feed and hoped for the best. Caught her, and put her up...only to be told later by some of the other folks who lived at the school that owners would just let their horses run in the winter...nice huh?


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## delynn (Nov 2, 2010)

Thank you everyone for your comments. Happy New Year.


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## delynn (Nov 2, 2010)

*Who doesn't clean stalls allowing manure to build up to feed on to prevent colic.*

Horses board at this ranch; 1) have no shelter from the deser sun ever; 2) stand in the stall all day; 3) are not turned out unless requested by boarder; 4) feed only alfalfa and water/ no salt blocks!
IS IT ILLEGAL TO HAVE NOT COVER/SHELTER? 



ptvintage said:


> It's a good thing you left if you didn't agree with it.
> 
> How many hours are the horses in these "stalls" daily?
> 
> The bigger issue to me is that the "stall" has no roof, and walls that provide no protection. I don't understand the point of that. It's not a shelter, so there's no reason to bring the horse into it, unless it's just to feed and turn right back out.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

No it's not illegal.

So if the horses are in the "desert sun" why exactly are you whining about the lack of a water heater!!??



delynn said:


> no water warmer


The "desert sun" should be making the water nice and warm. :wink:


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

It's less ideal, but I'm fairly certain it's not illegal. The horse needs feed and water. 
They do not need salt blocks and there are plenty of horses fed just alfalfa. 
All the horses shown in the pictures look to be of decent weight and coat condition. 

What does the boarding contract say?
If the care is not up to par, the boarder has the option of leaving

You could always call your ASPCA


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

If this is out in the desert, it could be they don't actually need the salt licks; I know the area I was at in AZ last year, there was so much salt in the 'tap water' there was definitely no need to add any more to a horse's diet! We had to drink bottled water, or from a reverse osmosis tank treated water.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

If he's living in that stall 24/7, then yes, it should be cleaned daily. Water should be filled daily as well, and scrubbed as needed. To prevent sand colic, the horse can be fed their hay in a second bucket like that or on mats. Feeding on the pooh is disgusting and can increase a horse's risk of parasites.

I hope you got your deposit back.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

ptvintage said:


> It's a good thing you left if you didn't agree with it.
> 
> How many hours are the horses in these "stalls" daily?
> 
> The bigger issue to me is that the "stall" has no roof, and walls that provide no protection. I don't understand the point of that. It's not a shelter, so there's no reason to bring the horse into it, unless it's just to feed and turn right back out.


Horses in Southern California are routinely housed in outdoor stalls like that with no shelters. Most of the barns I boarded at in San Diego County had a good number of "bargain" stalls without shavings or shelters, or trees near them, even at the "higher class" facilities. The horses did fine as long as they had plenty of fresh water. The summer heat there was never that bad, and humidty isn't a factor. I never saw a routinely salty horse until I moved to humid Arkansas, and our temps aren't much higher than I was used to out there. Winters in SoCal are very mild. I would sheet mine as I had to have a bargain stall myself ;-).


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## delynn (Nov 2, 2010)

The full boarding contract stated, "stalls cleaned daily." Down falls; gross dirty horse, smell and FLY TRANSMITTED DISEASE! BREATHING DRY MANURE can cause respiratory issues; Mold. Just like dust fever. I was concerned about colic; this ranch's horse died of colic a couple of weeks ago. They knew the weather change was an issue and didn't check on the horse's water intake or use a water warmer. This horse died in pain without pain meds for the last 2 days. I didn't agree to pay full board for a "mare motel"... and could never do that to my horse. The water was not give regularly because I checked. These people were being lazy, period. Reread the law; there are no excuses for no access to clean water. One of the horses went 19 hours without access to water. If I paying full board, I shouldn't have to water or clean my stall before I can enjoy my horse. There was no turn out! Water was out 3pm; is not the watering time; maybe after horse show around 9 pm! I witnessed! I shouldn't have to ask anyone anything. There are no excuse if the ranch owners are going to horse shows. Enough evidence to prosecute. This is a manure management issue. Management commited fraudulent business practices and false advertisement. There was no exidus for manure at all! The horses were recycling it! Gross, gross, gross! Thanks God, my parents brought me up better than to live in stinch! Water run off is another issue. Control pollution from *manure.*


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

I think you are overreacting and trying to find something to have a problem to be quite honest. You moved the horses, why keep on?


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Obviously you didn't like the place so you moved. So I guess I'm confused as to what you want to happen? You can try to prosecute, but I don't think you would have much of a case. I have seen horse much more neglected than that that the animal control officers have their hands tied over.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

I dont even really see neglect... Maybe a little laziness but the horses in the pictures look perfectly healthy and in no way malnourished, overbaked, or wormy...

The corrals have a layer of dried poop in them but it looks like it has been spread and dried so bugs wont nest in it. Around the corrals looks clean.Sure the waer containers themselves look a little algaed, but the water is clear and not murky or dirty looking so it must be pretty fresh. And contrary to popular belief, sunlight will not kill horses the "hot desert sun" doesnt look like it is even making them sweat...


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Oh I don't see neglect either unless the water is never filled (Looks like it recently had water in it so makes me think they normally have access to it).


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

delynn said:


> The water was not give regularly because I checked. These people were being lazy, period. Reread the law; there are no excuses for no access to clean water. One of the horses went 19 hours without access to water...... bunch of stuff....... Enough evidence to prosecute.



So you were aware of the horses not having access to water? One horse went 19 hours, and you sat there and counted the hours? Then we have enough evidence to prosecute you as well if the forum owners want to trace your IP address? 
How can you claim to care so much when you claim a horse had no water for 19 hours? And somehow you are the horse hero?


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

Fishy, eh Alex??

How heartless to just sit by and watch a horse go thirsty just to prove your point.


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## HorseOfCourse (Jul 20, 2009)

I think that you're going to get what you pay for, and unless you were blindfolded when you checked the place out/visited your horse/dropped your horse off, you knew where they'd be staying. To me is sounds like you're saying "poor me, I actually have to take care of my horse instead of having someone wait on me hand and foot like royalty" 
If you're going to own a horse, you're going to have to take responsibility for it aka maybe watering your own horse once in a while or -gasp- picking up a pitchfork. 
You already moved your horse, so really there was no point in this thread.
I'm not trying to be mean, just blunt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Honeysuga said:


> Fishy, eh Alex??
> 
> How heartless to just sit by and watch a horse go thirsty just to prove your point.



Betting $10 on fishy!


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## Remi (Sep 9, 2010)

Mine went without water for 16 hours this summer. I saw they were low and knew the BO usually watered in the evening and thought nothing of it. When I went back the next morning, no water.

So that may be how it happened for her.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Gawd forbid a barn owner has a personal emergency. In this case the horses will live without their evening feed, it is not the end of the world. Things happen. 

Anyone seeing their horse is low on water should fill the friggin water, is it hard?


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## Remi (Sep 9, 2010)

Are you directing that to me? I never said the BO had a personal emergency.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Remi said:


> Are you directing that to me? I never said the BO had a personal emergency.


Not at all, sorry for not being clear. I meant it to the person who started the thread. There is about half a days worth of manure in the pen/stall/whatever. 
And what would happen if the BO did have a personal emergency and could not clear out the stall/pen/whatever for a day, I personally would water the horse myself rather than time out the 19 hours the horse went without water.


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## Remi (Sep 9, 2010)

I think you assume things will go as promised till it doesn't happen. I would hope if my BO couldn't do water (all other care is done by me) that I would be notified so I could take care of it. I watch the water now and haul 5 gallon buckets from home to make sure the horses have some.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

Im glad you take precautions to make sure your horsey kids have water all the time Remi.

To no one in particular- I cant fathom walking by my horse, seeing it out of water and just walking away thinking someone else would do it for me. I never have had the luxury of not HAVING to take care of my horses...a.k.a never boarded.


Ill raise you $20 Alex.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I am not betting with Alex. 
No way.


Delynn, you have to get your stories straight. And I realize you are just a troll trying to get people riled up, but it works so much better if you have good facts and less drama.

You can not say that the stalls were never cleaned and then post photos of what any knowing horse person can tell is probably less than a single days worth of manure mess. You yourself say there was not turn out, etc.

One has to wonder why anyone with even half a brain would ever take their horse to a facility with so many "obvious issues" as you describe. You say there is no turn out, that the horses only have these mare motel set up with no shelter, etc and that was not what you wanted or thought you were paying for. Where did you put your horse when you moved it there? Probably into one of those mare motel stalls. Did you think it was going to grow a roof suddenly? Did you not open your eyes and look around to see that the other horses were in the same situation? Did you not look around to see that there was no turn out?

Your horse is your responsibility. Period!

On shelter being the law, I admit, I do not know for your state, because you do not post what state you are in. But I am willing to believe it is not the law. Even in NY, where we get lots of yucky cold stormy weather there is no shelter law requirement for horses. 

If there truly is enough to prosecute then why are you just ranting here and not showing your evidence to the appropriate animal cruelty people?





delynn said:


> Horses board at this ranch; 1) have no shelter from the deser sun ever; 2) stand in the stall all day; 3) are not turned out unless requested by boarder; 4) feed only alfalfa and water/ no salt blocks!
> IS IT ILLEGAL TO HAVE NOT COVER/SHELTER?


Lets see, addressed number 1 above. Number 2 is funny. Lots of horses stand in stalls all day, all over the world. Not sure how this is a Barn owner cruelty issue. Number 3 I must ask, how else would you have it? I certainly do not want the BO deciding what is best for my horse. So yes, the horse owner requests turn out. Number 4, Not one barn I have ever boarded at provided salt blocks for the horses. If the owner wanted a salt block the owner put in a salt block. Not the BO's job.


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## Buckcherry (Nov 18, 2010)

Let me just say that if I saw my horse or anyone elses horses as a boarding facility without water I would give them water. And if my horses stall was dirty I would clean it.. Then talk to the BO and just see what was going on. Its your horse, you are the OWNER so kind of your responsibility to make sure they get the proper care, if the barn is not to your liking.

I dont know where you live but in Southern Maryland it is very hard to get the ASPCA involved unless the horses are on their death bed literally. So good luck with a case when your horses look fine in weight and health. And good luck when you tell them you knew your horses didn't have water and you did nothing about it.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Delynn, you have to get your stories straight. And I realize you are just a troll trying to get people riled up, but it works so much better if you have good facts and less drama.
> 
> Number 4, Not one barn I have ever boarded at provided salt blocks for the horses. If the owner wanted a salt block the owner put in a salt block. Not the BO's job.


Yes - all of the threads this poster has started appear to the with the intention of getting folks ticked off.

Interesting on the salt blocks. We provide them in all of the turn outs for the boarders horses.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

But do you provide them in stalls? And would you provide them in turn out if your horses were not also in those turn outs?

The OP is talking about horses that live in stalls with out turn out.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

OP is the horse's pen behind the one you posted, your horse's...it is in fact clean, which makes me suspect your contract has the option for 'self care', ie, the owners take full care of the horse being boarded.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

mom2pride, the OP stated those photos were not her horses.


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## Buckcherry (Nov 18, 2010)

I've always provided my own salt block as well..


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Alwaysbehind said:


> But do you provide them in stalls? And would you provide them in turn out if your horses were not also in those turn outs?
> 
> The OP is talking about horses that live in stalls with out turn out.


If we have a horse on stall rest for an extended period of time - yes we do put a block in the stall.

Yes - even if our horses were not in the turnouts.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> mom2pride, the OP stated those photos were not her horses.


I thought she had, but wanted clarification; Which means not every horse lives in 'quote un quote' filth...


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

mom2pride said:


> I thought she had, but wanted clarification; Which means not every horse lives in 'quote un quote' filth...


My guess is the OP doesn't even have horses. Probably got caught on another forum posting photos of 'her' horses and has learned not to try that one again.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

mom2pride said:


> Which means not every horse lives in 'quote un quote' filth...


I agree! 
Having cleaned many-a-stall in my life, those stalls do not look horrible to me. They clearly do not show a long term build up of manure. The stall in the first photo is obviously occupied by a horse who does not care where it manures and then it walks in it. 
I laugh at the photo of the corner of the stall with manure and hay mixed. I have a mare who seems to aim for her hay when she manures or pees and then has a snit fit that her hay is dirty. That could be her stall at any given time.

I wish my life was boring enough that I needed to make drama out of nothing.


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## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

walkinthewalk said:


> Wow and just when I thought I'd heard almost everything, this crops up.
> 
> For starters, that is NOT a horse corral - it's barely big enough for a big dog --- sorry to the BO's and anyone that thinks that tiny space is an acceptable place to keep a horse:-(
> 
> ...


I must have lucked out then. My old barn had similar issues no water etc but my new barn is awesome and they are not in it for the money. They are very choosey about who boards there and it it limited to 5 horses. Hunters stall and paddock are cleaned daily, they have automatic waterers in stalls and fields. Waterers are cleaned weekly. They are always watching out for our horses. Not all boarding situations are the same.


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

Alwaysbehind. your mare does that too! my mare literally AIMS for her water bucket.. and hay.. then she'll insist on making a bed out of it.. so she's covered in filth. she's even pulled her bucket out of the bucket holder and pooped IN the bucket.. the silly girls!


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I boarded at a facility that did that. Well, they didn't clean stalls or put bedding down and it would turn into a dry dusty footing. It wasn't disgusting believe it or not and they didn't get thrush from it or anything. I'm not sure if there was a reasoning behind it or if it was because the man that ran the place was in his 70's. The horses were only stalled from 2-4 though. He would feed them at two and then let them out at 4. The stalls were open run ins for the rest of the time. 

I remember I wanted a clean one so I cleaned the one my horse used, took me hours. After I cleaned it, he said that one was going to be assigned to another horse so I cleaned my new stall. He then told me that one was going to another horse. I cleaned the third one before I realized what he was doing! LOL....


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

kitten_Val said:


> Nova, it very much depends on horse. If you walk into my qh's stall after one night (9 pm - 6 am) on those rainy days I put them in, her stall is nothing but a huge pile of manure, pee, and shavings all mixed up together in one nasty looking, dark brown "pillow" on floor (almost all shavings go into waste). Plus hay spread all over the top of it, and qh itself with manure patches over her (very nice when clean) coat.


I don't have a problem with that scenario provided it is completely cleaned out once in 24 hours.

Super Nova


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> Super Nova, you NEVER give your horses hay in turnout? That's certainly feeding off the ground, you know.
> 
> My horses get fed off the ground quite a bit. Hasn't made them drop over from sand colic, or stuffed them full of worms. If you have a good handle on your deworming program, there's no reason to think your animals are going to die from worm overload just from being fed off the ground.


No I do not feed in turnout......my horses have paddocks attached to their stalls which they have access to 24/7 ......they are feed in their stalls 4 times a day in the winter.....in the summer they have turn out on pasture and recieve one feeding at 11:00 pm at night in their stalls

Pictures of stall paddock area.










Pastures



















Super Nova


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

That's a lovely setup you have. How many acres, if you don't mind me asking?


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

Buckcherry said:


> Super Nova,
> My horses eat their hay in their fields as well and they are just fine. although we have grass.. its not just dirt.
> even if their stalls had been cleaned they could have pooped all in them in a matter of hours.
> 
> ...


Well I have had to deal with sand colic due to my horse being boarded at a place where she was feed off the ground and grazing grass that was barely 1/4" long........I also helped someone with a horse that almost died of sand colic from feeding off the ground.....whether your horse gets sand colic from being fed off the ground will depend one on the type of sand and secondly how well your horse cleans up his hay.

Super Nova


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> That's a lovely setup you have. How many acres, if you don't mind me asking?


Thank you........we have 4.5 acres.

Super Nova


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Alwaysbehind said:


> But do you provide them in stalls? And would you provide them in turn out if your horses were not also in those turn outs?


I actually don't keep salt in stalls. Just one medium block in run-in (which takes them forever to go through).


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

If you are going to be paranoid about a horse eating off the ground you can add eating in their stall to that. There are horses who have gotten impaction colic issues from eating bits of bedding when eating off the stall floor.


Kitten, I was just asking. I must say that MLS is the only barn owner that I know that provides salt for her border's horses.

I tried the outside salt block thing. My horses did not touch it (but I have a spot that will not grow grass anymore).


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Nova, that's a nice setup. I have to take pics of mine (just to share). But I don't have separate paddocks: they are fed next to the hay feeder and trained not to chase each other from the bucket.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

My BO provides a mineral block in the arena which is either used for turn out or is open to the pasture when the horses are turned out there. The arena is sand so if horses turned out there, a hay feeder is used. 

I've never boarded elsewhere so I didn't know that wasn't common.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Kitten, I was just asking. I must say that MLS is the only barn owner that I know that provides salt for her border's horses.
> 
> I tried the outside salt block thing. My horses did not touch it (but I have a spot that will not grow grass anymore).


Funny enough the WORST barn I know of (and I mean it's a local POS everyone knows about) provides mineral blocks to horses on regular basis (doesn't provide quality hay though :? ). 

I use the rubber feeder, put salt inside and keep it in corner of run-in (so it wouldn't melt under the rain). I've seen them licking on it (although not as much now in winter, mostly when they sweat in summer).


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## HorseOfCourse (Jul 20, 2009)

I don't understand why, if you are so worried about sand colic, you don't invest in some Sand Clear.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Mine lick the small blocks in their stalls just fine.

I can not say I have ever understood how a horses brain works. Laugh.

That is funny how the crappy barn provides salt blocks.


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

HorseOfCourse said:


> I don't understand why, if you are so worried about sand colic, you don't invest in some Sand Clear.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If this question is directed at me it is because there is no real scientific evidence that is actually works......according to the study I pasted .....it is suggested that just plan old fibre that removes sand.....which is what is contained in hay.

Beside I would rather prevent the problem if I can.

http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/aaep/1998/Hammock.pdf

Super Nova


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

Alwaysbehind said:


> If you are going to be paranoid about a horse eating off the ground you can add eating in their stall to that. There are horses who have gotten impaction colic issues from eating bits of bedding when eating off the stall floor.
> 
> 
> Kitten, I was just asking. I must say that MLS is the only barn owner that I know that provides salt for her border's horses.
> ...


Well they don't eat off their bedding for the most part as there is very little bedding in their stalls due to the fact that I have soft stalls which require minimal bedding or none at all if they pee outside....I use a minimal amount on one side.......hay gets put down on the other side.

Its about minimizing the risks not completely eliminating the possiblity of ingesting sand.

I have 50lb salt blocks in all my stalls.....6 in total.

Super Nova


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

That looks like a very typical Arizona boarding situation to me. I would almost bet that is down in Phoenix or outlying area. 

Actually, from the description, I expect the manure build up to be worse!

It is so dry down there, that at one or more places I boarded, we would just rake manure from one end of the stall to the other, and it would dry out and be like saw dust in no time. Especially in summer, that is very typical. And then the horses isn't eating off the sand (but I always had my own feeder). So yeah, for better or worse, that doesn't surprise me at all. :-|

The lack or water would worry me worse. When it is 115 degrees outside, I don't want my horses without water EVER. Even for 1/2 hour. They may not drink it constantly, but I always want them to have access to it.

And I would also want my horse to have a sun shade. But I have also known of places that didn't. 

So yeah, typical AZ boarding situation. I'm sure that would run you close to $200 a month (including alfalfa hay, which is nearly the only kind you can afford and get). I used to pay around $125 a month 15 years ago. But hay has doubled in price since then!


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## HorseOfCourse (Jul 20, 2009)

Well I use it and am going to continue to use it. I feel that it does help, and my vet is the one that originally recommended it to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Oh how sad, they killed the ponies used in the psyllium study. :-(

I read the link as I use psyllium on my horses, but not for the reason of sand. I had a couple old horses die of colic (well, they had to be euthanized because we couldn't save them) and a necropsy wasn't done, so I don't know if it was an impaction, twisted gut, entroliths or what, but anyway, my vet recommended feeding psyllium to my older horses twice a week to help prevent impactions. 

Does anyone know if psyllium helps keep horses from getting impacted? I have never heard of anyone else using it that way, but that's what it's used for in people, to prevent constipation, right? Any thoughts on that?


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Kitten, I was just asking. I must say that MLS is the only barn owner that I know that provides salt for her border's horses.


My BO has a mineral and white salt block provided in an area where all the horses can access it while turned out. My mare has loose mineral in her paddock though, that I provide. :wink: I've only been at one place (out of 4) that didn't provide any kind of mineral, or salt block...I DON'T expect that sort of thing though, and always provide my own loose mineral.


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

trailhorserider said:


> Oh how sad, they killed the ponies used in the psyllium study. :-(
> 
> I read the link as I use psyllium on my horses, but not for the reason of sand. I had a couple old horses die of colic (well, they had to be euthanized because we couldn't save them) and a necropsy wasn't done, so I don't know if it was an impaction, twisted gut, entroliths or what, but anyway, my vet recommended feeding psyllium to my older horses twice a week to help prevent impactions.
> 
> Does anyone know if psyllium helps keep horses from getting impacted? I have never heard of anyone else using it that way, but that's what it's used for in people, to prevent constipation, right? Any thoughts on that?


I think the reasoning behind using a product like psyllium is that it is fibre and fibre helps to keep the gut active and moving......but hay probably has more fibre and does the same job......beet pulp also has fibre along with extra water.........so not sure I understand your vets reasoning.

Super Nova


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## Story (Dec 28, 2010)

double post! sorry.


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## Story (Dec 28, 2010)

personally I don't think any horse should be made to stand in its own filth.. I am glad you have left this farm. It is funny to me that they care so much about a horse colicing, and their solution is allowing the horse to live in its feces. I am sure there are much better solutions.. To each their own I suppose!


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## nate1 (Jul 4, 2009)

if a person is concerned about sand colic use metamucill


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

It might be different if horses ingested fats and sugars and meat like humans, then sure their manure would be bad for them to stand on. But alas all they eat(or should be eating) is high fiber plant matter, so that is all that comes out the other end, sterilized plant fiber... I really do not see how that is bad for them to stand on a thin layer of it, dried of course, to help lower their sand ingestion... Even if they eat a little of it again, it hurts nothing. What do you think happens out in a pasture? Some time a horse or cow or dog or cat or rat has pooped on every inch of it, but they still have no problem eating, playing, and rolling on it.


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## Reiterin (Mar 28, 2010)

Honeysuga said:


> but they still have no problem eating, playing, and rolling on it.


I've seen horses use poop piles as "pillows." by choice.


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

The stall doesn't look that bad to me as far as cleanliness. I have heard of people leaving a layer of dry poop spread out in a stall to decrease colic & make the ground softer.
It doesn't work for me because my horses are barefoot. Besides if you live where I do, your horse should be on a regular regime to prevent sand colic anyway.
I would have 2 water buckets if they were that size, but that's just me.
Speed Racer is right, those type of stalls are very common in AZ.
I'm more concerned with the fact that there is no shelter (shade) like Always Behind. Even the low end Boarding Stables in my area have some type of shade.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

As far as we know those are just temporary turn out pens for whatever reason and the horses might not even be out there very long in the sun at all. 
Seeing as our OP has decidedly split now that noone is patting her on the back and or saying how horrendous the conditions are, we may never know.


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## NicoleSich04 (Nov 16, 2010)

I'm with you. I would be so ****ed if I went out a found my horse's stall like that. A horse's stall should always be kept dry and clean. Colic...nice excuse...how about protecting them from the swarms of flies that much manure will produce just standing around. No water...and there concerned about horses colicing. You made the right decision by moving your horse out of there!


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

When manure is spread out thinly and dried, flies will not lay eggs in it. So I guess you walk around all day with a bucket to catch your ponehs poops before they dirty his stall? And in case you didnt notice Nicole, those buckets DID have water in them so they could not have really been low that long considering how quickly water evaporates from hot plastic in the desert sun...


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