# My new yearling. WHAT COLOR?!?!?!?



## Brittanybrewski (Dec 1, 2011)

I just baught this filly last week.
I do not know what her color would be.
She has two blue eyes as well. 
I cant get the photo to load


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

She looks like a black tobiano (with something else causing blue eyes) going gray. 

What happened to her back leg?


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## Brittanybrewski (Dec 1, 2011)

Poseidon said:


> She looks like a black tobiano (with something else causing blue eyes) going gray.
> 
> What happened to her back leg?




In the photo of me leaning on her back?
She got kicked. Its not blood its red mudd lol


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## Brittanybrewski (Dec 1, 2011)

Oh and also...she isnt black.
She is more of a blue color. I have more pics. 
I just really want to know her color


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

She was most likely born black. She looks like she is graying out, which would make her a Gray Tobiano (and I'm assuming Splash causing the blue eyes). The white hairs growing in are making her look blue.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

I agree with Po. Black tobiano that is greying. The black greying out is what is making you think she is "blue."


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## Brittanybrewski (Dec 1, 2011)

NdAppy said:


> I agree with Po. Black tobiano that is greying. The black greying out is what is making you think she is "blue."


 

Will she stay like this? 
Or get more grey?


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

She will get lighter and lighter, more than likely going completely white, and possibly getting fleabites in her "colored" areas.


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## Brittanybrewski (Dec 1, 2011)

Oh gosh


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## Brittanybrewski (Dec 1, 2011)

NdAppy said:


> She will get lighter and lighter, more than likely going completely white, and possibly getting fleabites in her "colored" areas.


 
Oh gosh  How long do you think it will take for her to turn white?
I really like the way she is now. Oh well lol I'll love her either way


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

The graying process varies from horse to horse, so there isn't really way to determine how quickly they will change. It is a neat change to watch though, especially if you take pictures once in a while and compare.


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## Brittanybrewski (Dec 1, 2011)

Poseidon said:


> The graying process varies from horse to horse, so there isn't really way to determine how quickly they will change. It is a neat change to watch though, especially if you take pictures once in a while and compare.


 
I was hoping she wouldnt change :/ 
But its all good! I'll still love her lol
It will be really cool to see the changes.
I'll definitely be taking TONS of pics


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## BlackCricket (Oct 20, 2011)

grey tobiano, and with the blue eyes...she's got something else going on with it--splash or maybe even frame. I know splash causes blue eyes, and frame is thought by some to be able to cause blue eyes.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I agree with the others that what you're seeing is the first stages of her graying out. She's a pretty little girl. Her eye color strikes me as a bit odd though, they just seem to be a different shade of blue than I am used to seeing on paint horses. Very unique and beautiful though.


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

those blue eyes will be stunning on her white coat once she greys out! i look forward to more pictures. and i cant wait to see her all slicked out


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

I think people have an affection for the word 'splash'...

She is a grey Tobiano.


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## Brittanybrewski (Dec 1, 2011)

smrobs said:


> I agree with the others that what you're seeing is the first stages of her graying out. She's a pretty little girl. Her eye color strikes me as a bit odd though, they just seem to be a different shade of blue than I am used to seeing on paint horses. Very unique and beautiful though.


I have a question reguarding her eyes. I've only had her for a week and I notice this yesterday one of her eyes is outlined in black (the actual eye not where eyeliner would go) and the other is white. Do you know what would cause this? It's very odd looking. If you dont see what I'm talkin about I can show you a pic of each eye and u can see


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## BlackCricket (Oct 20, 2011)

tobiano doesn't cause blue eyes..her base color isn't causing blue eyes. Splash can be easily picked out at times and is often with tobiano. I did say a chance at frame too, as it is not discounted that frame MAY cause blue eyes. Sabino doesn't and Tobiano doesn't.


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## BlackCricket (Oct 20, 2011)

would love to see pics of both eyes


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

yes! pictures of both of her eyes!


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## Brittanybrewski (Dec 1, 2011)

BlackCricket said:


> would love to see pics of both eyes


This is her left eye.


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## Brittanybrewski (Dec 1, 2011)

BlackCricket said:


> would love to see pics of both eyes


 

This is her right eye 
Sorry for the pics I would take better ones but I'm not at the house rite now.


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## Brittanybrewski (Dec 1, 2011)

BlackCricket said:


> would love to see pics of both eyes


 

The skin around the left eye is white, while the skin around the right eye is black. I've never seen this.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

WSArabians said:


> I think people have an affection for the word 'splash'...
> 
> She is a grey Tobiano.


Splash is a gene that falls under the overo category. Tobiano doesn't cause blue eyes, so she either has splash or frame too. My guess would be splash.


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## BlackCricket (Oct 20, 2011)

not really seeing pink skin around the left eye...looks like they are both rimmed in black. Maybe a better picture showing it when you get a chance? She's gonna look neat when she's all greyed out


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## Brittanybrewski (Dec 1, 2011)

BlackCricket said:


> not really seeing pink skin around the left eye...looks like they are both rimmed in black. Maybe a better picture showing it when you get a chance? She's gonna look neat when she's all greyed out


 
I'll post better pictures in a sec 
Stay on so you can see them please


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## Brittanybrewski (Dec 1, 2011)

BlackCricket said:


> not really seeing pink skin around the left eye...looks like they are both rimmed in black. Maybe a better picture showing it when you get a chance? She's gonna look neat when she's all greyed out


 
The one with the chestnut horse in the pic is of her "white eye". the part of the eye rite after the blue is colored white. And the other pic is of the black eye. rite after the blue on that eye is lined in thick black lol. I tried to explaine it the best I could lol


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

On her left side, the sclera of her eye is white (common in paints and appaloosas), on the right side, the sclera is black. It really isn't anything to worry about. I have a full blooded bay QH that is the same way; left sclera is white, right sclera is black.


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

She is pretty! It will be fun to see her once she fully greys!


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## Brittanybrewski (Dec 1, 2011)

smrobs said:


> On her left side, the sclera of her eye is white (common in paints and appaloosas), on the right side, the sclera is black. It really isn't anything to worry about. I have a full blooded bay QH that is the same way; left sclera is white, right sclera is black.


Ohhh okay thank you very much! 
I wasnt sure what was goin on lol



Piaffe said:


> She is pretty! It will be fun to see her once she fully greys!


Thanks!
Yeahhh it will deffinitely be a cool transfermation


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## HorseLovinLady (Jul 18, 2011)

She's beautiful!! I love a gray and please keep those pics coming!


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

I was looking at the pictures of your filly again on facebook and saw some of your other pictures. None of the curb bits you're using have curb straps on them, which means they are all but useless in effective communication. I would recommend getting a couple and putting them on your bits.


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## SarahAnn (Oct 22, 2011)

Poseidon said:


> Splash is a gene that falls under the overo category. Tobiano doesn't cause blue eyes, so she either has splash or frame too. My guess would be splash.


Interesting. I have a Tobiano Paint with one blue eye... Does that mean she has splash or frame as well?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Yes. I am guessing splash based on the pictures you have. The way the white covers the mouth and goes up really leans toward splash.


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## SarahAnn (Oct 22, 2011)

Wow. I never thought any more about it. I just thought "yep, she's tobiano." This is very interesting. Thank you 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Brittanybrewski (Dec 1, 2011)

HorseLovinLady said:


> She's beautiful!! I love a gray and please keep those pics coming!


Thanks! I deffinitely will! 



Poseidon said:


> I was looking at the pictures of your filly again on facebook and saw some of your other pictures. None of the curb bits you're using have curb straps on them, which means they are all but useless in effective communication. I would recommend getting a couple and putting them on your bits.


I have fixed that since then lol 
Thank you though


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## BlackCricket (Oct 20, 2011)

splash is good at hiding sometimes. A friend of mine bred her two AQHA horses together. Both have a very thin stripe that sorta veers off to the side down at their nostril. low socks on both (no taller than 3 inches). The stallion has a small fleck of blue in one eye.

She ended up with a super loud splash filly. High stockings, belly white, bald face...had to get her DNA'd to prove that daddy was the daddy too.


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## SarahAnn (Oct 22, 2011)

Whoa that's funny! My stallion is registered APHA, he only has a little white on his belly and high stockings in the back, and almost a bald face. Is he overo with splash or frame? Or just overo? Now I am second guessing everyone haha. 

My bay QH gelding has white and black striped hooves, does that mean anything?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

You would have to test him for frame, which hides also, but I would guess your stud had splash and sabino. "Overo" is just a catch-all term for three different genes/patterns: sabino, frame, and splash. Any one or combination of two or more is just referred to as overo.


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## soenjer55 (Dec 4, 2011)

I have to agree with everyone else, she looks like a greying black tobiano.


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## paintsrule2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Frame, splash and sabino are all genetic variations of Overo, not Tobiano.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

paintsrule2 said:


> Frame, splash and sabino are all genetic variations of Overo


I have to disagree with you here, because this is one of my pet hates. I HATE lumping splash, sabino and frame under the same name. They are NOT variations of the same gene at all. They are different genes, and we should not be lumping them under one name. Usually I wouldn't have a problem - but frame (as I am sure you know) is something that needs to be clearly identified, especially in breeding horses.

Ok, rant over. Sorry about that.


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## paintsrule2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Not a problem at all, but if you look at the definitions that APHA provides, the genes are not linked to the Tobiano coloration, but to forms of Overo.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Breed registries are the _last_ place I would look for correct color definitions.


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## BlackCricket (Oct 20, 2011)

Overo is also becoming a fairly outdated term as well in genetic circles...used to you would hear splash white or splash white overo..now it's just splash (they've even dropped the white, most likely due to the finding of dominant white as to not confuse), frame overo is now frame, and sabino overo I haven't heard in ages, but is now just sabino. You rarely hear the word tovero in some circles as well, most people preferring to say what patterns exactly. 
Overo was just meant to mean--Not Tobiano.


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## paintsrule2 (Oct 28, 2011)

How the Overo Genes Work
Unfortunately, little is known about the genetics that create these patterns. It is commonly accepted that the overo patterns are under the influence of one or more dominant genes. It appears that each of the patterns may be the result of a dominant gene; but, it is also possible that there is just one gene with other gene modifiers that change the pattern.
There is also some evidence that the genes which produce leg and facial markings may influence the amount of white on an overo. This appears to be true for the sabino and splash white patterns. The frame overo, like the tobiano, is thought to be less sensitive to these genes.
Time and research will eventually answer these questions. For now, here is what the three overo patterns seem to have in common.
All the overo patterns have a large range of expression. At one end of the spectrum they appear mostly white. At the other end, they may be hard to identify from solid horses. 
The frame overo has dark color running along the topline. The chest is usually dark as are the legs and the tail. 
The color pattern referred to as sabino encompasses a wide range of patterns. It is possible that more than one pattern has been included in this category; but, at the moment, we are going to assume that this is the varied expression of a single gene.​This gene has been designated as the dominant "*Sb*" gene.
The sabino horse characteristically looks like it ran through a vat of white paint while a paint sprayer splatter white creating speckled areas of the body. These roany body spots are usually located on the belly and have crisp jagged edges. 
Splashed white is the rarest of the overo color patterns. This pattern looks like a horse ran through a deep vat of white paint. According to Dr. Bowling's recent work, this overo pattern is under the control of a dominant gene identified by the letters "*Spl*". 

By the way: *Dr. Ann Bowling, Executive Associate Director of the Veterinary Genetics Laboratory UC Davis, CA*


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## BlackCricket (Oct 20, 2011)

what I find fun--tobiano, sabino and dominant white are all found at KIT (as is roan)...a wide variety to be found at the same location.
Splash and frame are both found elsewhere...can't remember on frame at the moment, and last I heard, they were very close to pinpointing splash down.


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## paintsrule2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Genetics are fun and confusing. New research is coming out every day. As stated in the excerpt above, Splash is the rarest of Overo patterns and controlled by a dominant gene "Spl". There is no guarantee that by breeding a splash to a splash, that you will get a splash...


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## BlackCricket (Oct 20, 2011)

I don't think splash is as rare as they think...I just think it can hide VERY well  Like in the case of my friends horses...two normal looking AQHA horses that produced one heckuva loud splashed filly  Only indicators they both have splash--sire has a blue chip in one eye and both have narrow stripes that veer off at the nostril every so lightly


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## paintsrule2 (Oct 28, 2011)

The article only said that Splash was the rarest form of Overo, meaning that you are more likely to see a frame or sabino overo, not that the pattern was rare and illusive. I haven't yet found any other research by a reputable lab, that states much different. Since I am a Paint horse breeder, I do look for this research and try to stay up to date.


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## BlackCricket (Oct 20, 2011)

I've noticed in paints, it seems to be difficult to find tobianos of wonderful quality..seems most fall into one or more overo patterns. I'm guessing because tobiano is easier to "skew the eye" into seeing faults due to how the color falls. So people don't breed them as much.


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## paintsrule2 (Oct 28, 2011)

In the past, a tobiano was not as desired because of the tendency to have so much white. And you are correct, there were not as many of great quality, as there were of the overo patterned horses. Since many QHs carry some type of overo gene, although recessive and not expressed, the best quality paints began to emerge as "crop outs" from the best quality QH stock. As we have continued to breed, we have developed better and better quality. You will definitely now find some modern day tobianos that are fabulous as well. There are even a few very nice homozygous tobis, which is far more rare to find quality in. Even today, though, you will find that many breeders/exhibitors/judges prefer the minimal white overo in the show pen, to the loudly expressed overo or tobiano. This is even more true now that we are able to dbl register some paints as QHs.


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## MangoRoX87 (Oct 19, 2009)

I think she'll look really cool once she is all greyed out. A white horse is blue eyes sounds awesome


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## BlackCricket (Oct 20, 2011)

I've noticed that friends of mine that are breeders really want those minimal overo marked foals to show. One got a dominant white foal (GQ Santana offspring)...and she was all white..she never got shown, but was a super nice filly. But she was "too white". LOL


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## paintsrule2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Funny huh? I personally think that they are beautiful, although I wouldn't want to show one due to the way that they are treated in the show pen. It doesn't always happen, but enough that it's not worth taking the mostly white horse over the minimal white horse to the show. Show many of us breed for the dbl registered now, that we cringe when we see much white!


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## BlackCricket (Oct 20, 2011)

I will say, I love minimal pinto markings...but that is from a "i don't like to bathe a horse all the time" standpoint.

That being said, my Spotted Saddle Horse pony is mostly white..ahaha


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

I understand the genes perfectly well. What irritates me is that people continue to lump them all under the term 'overo' when they are caused by different genes. They are on DIFFERENT alleles. Just because breed societies continue to use the term, does not mean that those of us that are educated about the differences should. We shouldn't lower ourselves to their level


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## paintsrule2 (Oct 28, 2011)

UC Davis still considers Frame, Sabino and Splash as Overo. I posted the excerpt from an article that provided this info earlier in the thread.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Then UC Davis are still catering to the lowest common denominator. Sabino is more closely related to tobiano than to splash or frame. Frame is on a different locus, and the test for splash (as far as I know) is not available yet as they haven't found the Spl gene, they are just theorising that it is there.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

From the amount of white hairs she has now as a yearling, she could be a light grey about the time she is 6 or 8 years old, or she could grey out slower, and may never actually get super light. I have seen late teenage grey tobiano horses that were really neat looking with a light to medium grey color pattern. Only time will tell 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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