# over the moon!



## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

My two year old filly, some of you may know I decided to have her euthed due to her constant soundness issues. She just wasn't happy in the pasture.

As soon as I gave up on her, I stopped feeding her, and within 2 days she was sound. And has stayed that way since. I decided to give her one last chance, unable to justify euthing a horse that was currently sound just because her lameness had been intermittent before. So far - early days yet - it seems to be paying off.

Today, I got on her back, and we rode in the round pen at walk and trot. She doesn't come across like an unbroke baby. Doesn't know leg aids AT ALL but there was no confusion or fear, just "oh this is what you want me to do? OK, let's do it now. You want me to stop? Sure thing!"

She is very confident in the trot with me in two-point position, but posting is scary and confusing, so she stops. Which in and of itself is a massive breakthrough. SHE STOPS WHEN SHE'S SCARED. No panic attack. Just, "I don't know what this is all about, Mum, can we stop it now?" Her trot is just divine and surprisingly balanced considering she was given to me as unbroke.

I've taken her very steady over the past few months and am beyond pleased at how calm she was, and how well she seemed to know the job already. But, most importantly, she seems to be SOUND for now. FINALLY.

Stay sound for me big girl, you'll go far!


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## Non believer (Jan 31, 2013)

That's good news, would love to see some photos of her she sounds sweet!!
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## Really (Jan 31, 2013)

Really??? :shock:


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## Dusty Dollar (Jan 16, 2013)

Did you get any photos ?!? 

So do you know what the lameness was caused by? 
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## Evansk (Dec 22, 2011)

blue eyed pony said:


> My two year old filly, some of you may know I decided to have her euthed due to her constant soundness issues. She just wasn't happy in the pasture.
> 
> As soon as I gave up on her, I stopped feeding her, and within 2 days she was sound. And has stayed that way since. I decided to give her one last chance, unable to justify euthing a horse that was currently sound just because her lameness had been intermittent before. So far - early days yet - it seems to be paying off.
> 
> ...




... You gave up and STOPPED feeding her? :shock:


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## Mooned69 (Jan 31, 2013)

I always tell my friends, photos or it didn't happen! Come on where are the pics?
Oh and great news that she is sound
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## GoneRama (Aug 5, 2011)

I wonder how that balanced in Feedxl.
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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

im not really sure im understanding....
so you didnt work her for awhile because she was lame. you stopped feeding her because ?? then she is 'miraculously' sound so you immediately ride her even though she was having tons of issues before she went lame ? 

you really should find out what caused the lameness


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## MissColors (Jul 17, 2011)

Hey I condone you for not feeding her to try it out . Just need to feed her a forage instead so she doesn't loose all that weight. She might be allergic to grain. My dogs are and while they don't break out in rashes or what not they do have a lot of pain all over from it to the point they don't want to be petted. 

Keep up the good work.  

PS! You say big girl, is she fat? Because that could of been a lot of issue also. It puts to much pressure on her joints and causes pain from all of the weight if you get what I'm saying.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GoneRama (Aug 5, 2011)

In all seriousness good on you for being persistant and nutting it out. Incredible the way she went for a first ride. I've broken in a few horses myself and never had them go that brilliantly on a first ride, she must be special.
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## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

GoneRama said:


> she must be special.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Or hungry...


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## MissColors (Jul 17, 2011)

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-health/why-me-[rant]-149491/

To all of you complaining. Catch up. I'm pretty sure this is the same horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fahntasia (Dec 19, 2011)

why would you stop feeding her......she is in your care, she is your responsability. Then you decide to hop on her after not feeding her and ride her because she is sound all of a sudden? Has a vet seen her? Do you know why she is not sound? All I can say is wow......


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## Evansk (Dec 22, 2011)

MissColors said:


> http://www.horseforum.com/horse-health/why-me-[rant]-149491/
> 
> To all of you complaining. Catch up. I'm pretty sure this is the same horse.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 You mean complaining about someone that's not feeding their horse because they've decided the horse isn't worth it cause it's lame and will be euthed? Then after not feeding the animal for how.. ever many days.. then decides "Oh she doesn't look lame, Lets ride her!"

Sorry.. but that's not just not right IMO


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## Kayella (Feb 11, 2012)

I've read that thread, MC. I know her situation. However, she did not stop feeding the horse "to see if it would help." She GAVE UP on the horse and just stopped feeding her. There is a difference between exploring all possibilities, and just giving up on the horse. 

Also, has anyone noticed the large amount of newbies posting on this thread? Maybe it's just a coincidence, but I think it's kinda improbable that 3-4 newbies would choose this thread as their first thread to comment on. Just me thinking out loud, though


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## Really (Jan 31, 2013)

Really??? :shock:


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## GoneRama (Aug 5, 2011)

Regardless of the situation, whether horse is destined for a can of dog food or the show ring it is the owners duty of care to continue to look after their animal until it is no longer in their possession. You cannot simply 'give up' on an animal and stop feeding it. That is just stupid and goes against responsible horse ownership in my books.

Signed......

Long time lurker who has made a few posts in the past.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

Really said:


> Really??? :shock:


care to elaborate ?? =]


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## Dusty Dollar (Jan 16, 2013)

Ok over being nice is this the same filly that you said when you first got her that she would get sent away to a pro to get broken in? The same filly you had huge issues on the ground with? The same filly you thought you'd broken her neck and didn't get a vet out? The same filly that has apparently got OCD in a stifle who now also has sub-clinical laminitis and is grain intolerant? The same filly who you were going to destroy 2 weeks ago as she was too lame?

AND YOU RODE IT???
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Really (Jan 31, 2013)

gypsygirl said:


> care to elaborate ?? =]


Not really :wink:


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## Dusty Dollar (Jan 16, 2013)

Oh and same lurked for a long time just over this one person on several different forums
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Annanoel (Mar 29, 2011)

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-conformation-critique/i-dont-want-another-horse-yet-150009/

So this is your thread too where you were already looking to replace her...Now I'm guessing this is the filly who has/might have broken her neck. Was so lame you were just ready to euthanize her because you couldn't ride, and numerous other problems...

Ah, again. So just to clarify as I'm sure others are wondering you say you GAVE UP and STOPPED FEEDING HER? I don't know why on earth you'd ever do such a thing, but oh well.

Now she's somehow sound? Maybe it was someting in her food that's all I can think or a hidden issue. Even so I sure hope you are feeding her now, at least pasture or forage if you're able to. 

I wouldn't ride just yet, I would have a lameness exam done, and rack the vet's brain see if he/she knows what could have caused this. Even being sound I would give her a break, I wouldn't push it at this point. Let her be sound and build some strength. IF this is the same filly that her hurt neck, I woudn't be riding either till a vet clears her! I'd say groundwork at this point. Maybe LIGHT lunging and that even is pushing it in my opinion.


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## Lockwood (Nov 8, 2011)

After review it has been decided to re-open this thread.
As members here, if some of you are reading a thread and do not understand something that was posted or do not understand something about a situation, please ask for clarification before making assumptions. 
Thanks to the members who have done this.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

I would like to clarify, she DID have pasture and free choice hay. It's not like I was/am starving her. She actually PUT ON weight! It sounds bad, but honestly, I don't know very many horses that don't cope just fine with all the good quality hay they can eat. In-work horses are a different story and she is getting fed now, but I'm very careful with it and she's not getting anything that sends her lame... well, not intentionally anyway.

We are 99.99% certain that her unsoundness is feed related. Sound on NO grain and strictly the RDI for protein, no more. Then she broke into the feed shed again and nicked some of Monty's feed, which is very high in protein, and yep - tonight, she's walking a little short on her offside hind. Like a hamstring tightness sort of short. Could be a coincidence, but then that's a hell of a string of coincidences, because it's about the 4th time protein has sent her lame. She's having a few days off to process what she's learned and to purge the excess protein, and meanwhile I'm doing something about making the shed more secure so it can't happen again. We'll see.

I'm starting her on MSM whenever it gets here. It was bought for Monty but I figured, since I'll have it, and it's supposed to help with a lot of things Magic has or has had, I might as well give it to her.

She is incredibly clever and willing - so trainable! Mum's pony is taking her sweet time to figure leg aids out at all, and Magic got halt to walk in two rides. Walk to trot is getting there.

I ask lightly with my legs, then voice if she ignores/doesn't understand, then back that up if I have to with just a very light touch of a whip. If I had to, I would tap her, but I've never had to do more than just touch her with the whip. I spent a lot of time doing groundwork with her, teaching her that when I touch certain places on her I expect her to do certain things, so a lot of what we're doing under saddle is just the natural progression of the groundwork. She already knew reinback, for example. I didn't expect her to understand but the moment I asked, she obliged, just like that, actually LIGHTER than my finished eventing gelding!

I have attached a few photos, one of her from the side that shows I'm not "keeping her skinny to control her" as a few people have implied. The ridden photos are from yesterday, her second ride - we start in the round pen and I check that she remembers about stop, go and turn, then we go out into the smallest pasture to work, because the round pen is just too small. She has lived in that pasture, it is a familiar space.

The thread I posted "I don't want another horse yet" was posted specifically to get the horse out of my head. I didn't want him. I was and am in no financial position to take him on, even without Magic's ongoing care to worry about.

Please excuse the saddle [I swear I did put it on in the right place, it's a bit wide for her and she's very bum high at the moment so it slipped forward; wasn't so bad today with a half pad, but I'm having HER saddle fitted to her ASAP so I don't have to keep using one of Monty's], and my position. I am aware both are terrible! Sorry about photo quality, Mum doesn't know how to use the zoom on my phone's camera so I had to crop them and blow them up. Going to try to get some better photos next time I get on her back, but that'll be a few days.

[oh and yes, I do ride her with a very light contact in the trot, I just can't bring myself to loop the reins :/ when she's a bit more established I'll make myself let her have a loop but for now I can react and correct more quickly, if she makes a mistake, with a light contact]


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## acorn (Nov 27, 2012)

Evansk said:


> ... You gave up and STOPPED feeding her? :shock:


LOL I had the same reaction when I read the op's post.
I thought that's one way to euth them and my blood ran boiling hot.

Have since read the rest of the posts and see that the filly was getting hay and pasture .

OP, you really have to watch how you put things you could have had a mob with hanging ropes show up at your house.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

acorn said:


> OP, you really have to watch how you put things you could have had a mob with hanging ropes show up at your house.


Yes, I really do! I come across badly a lot. :/

honestly though I can't even stand seeing a hint of rib [healthy for a growing horse to have just a hint of rib, as long as the rest of them is covered]... one of the many reasons Magic went lame in the first place I think, I wanted her too fat for her age/maturity. It breaks my heart to see underweight horses. I couldn't live with myself if I let one of my horses get too skinny and didn't do anything about it because "it makes them easier to control" [that's my neighbours' excuse... a story for a different thread that one!].


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I think it would have been less inflammatory to say that you stopped giving her grain. Nobody has a problem with that. It is starvation that they have a problem with.

The horse that you show pictures of is a nice looking horse. If she were mine, and she were lame, and no treatments helped, I would put her out in the pasture for 6 months and try her again. Euthanasia of a nice looking horse over what is most likely a temporary problem is a poor financial decision. Admitting to making such a decision is a good way to make us all hate you.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

I apologise for scaring everyone with that! I really worded it badly lol.

Unfortunately due to previous experience with unsoundnesses I do tend to give up kind of easy. I gave her a good 4 or 5 months, but didn't really do anything about changing feed [she was on such minimal grain I didn't think it was an issue, but have since discovered that she's just way more sensitive nutritionally than I thought she was] so I guess it wasn't really "fair" given what the problem turned out to be. She has until the end of this month to prove she can stay sound on no grain, then if she's still intermittently unsound I financially cannot keep searching for the cause. But it's looking good IMO that we've figured it out. I just don't know what I'll do for feeding her when she's in full work because grass and hay won't be enough and what she's on now isn't a viable long-term option because it's made from grain by-products, which she's sensitive to long-term [ok short term but not long term]... I'm looking at a few no-grain options to see what's the best one.

I still have to talk to my vet about the whole thing, and discuss my thoughts on feed being the cause of her unsoundness. Not just because I want my vet's fresh opinion on Magic, but also because feed wasn't even suggested as a possible cause, and I'd hate for my experience not to benefit someone somewhere.


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## rbarlo32 (Aug 9, 2010)

I also think riding her is a very bad idea. Firstly she has been lame for the last 4 months doesn't matter what caused it she needs to be brought back into work slowly ie a little lounging and so long reining (ground driving) so she can build the muscles back up in the leg, secondly she isn't even 3 yet which imo is too young to be ridden particularly is she has already has had some major lameness issues as her age and lastly you don't have a saddle the fits, I wouldn't ride her until you do as it would hurt her to wait a little longer to be ridden but riding her in a ill fitting saddle could easily hurt her back. Also in my opinion she doesn't look very happy in those photos maybe she is a little sore still.

Like I said this is just my opinion you know her better then I do.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

You should discuss the grain/unsoundness issue with your farrier (assuming you have a decent one). 




blue eyed pony said:


> As soon as I gave up on her, I stopped feeding her, and within 2 days she was sound.


Here's your issue, you didn't give it one last try, to see if it was grain, you gave up and stopped feeding the horse. 

I have no problem with euthing an animal that is too costly, unlikely to be right again or even unwanted. However it is abhorrent to stop feeding because you don't care and have given up. 

As your horse is only just sound, you should stay off it a while. Let the horse catch it's breathe and recover for a minute. 
In addition you are riding in a poor fitting saddle - stop that. 

It very much sounds that horses are a tool to you, and that's ok, but they need to be treated well all the same. 

I totally get not putting massive amounts of money into a horse to figure out what's going wrong, if you don't have that kind of income to do it. Most people would have a spending limit. I am pro slaughter, but I would personally opt to euth, I think that's kinder, so I am not a save every horsey kind of person. However you should still have good humane animal husbandry practices. 

Giving up, being done, and therefore not feeding, is unacceptable. Riding the beast as soon as you can, is not right and an ill fitting saddle on top of that is just poor behavior. I see in your photos that you are taking care of yourself with a back protector, that's good, but I do think you should give more consideration to the horse.


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## loveyourhorse (Jun 17, 2011)

Wasn't this the same horse that was "so sensitive" that she was dangerous and you couldn't even work with her because your personalities didn't mesh so you want to have her pts? Now she is so clever, willing and trainable?? 

Just trying to keep track here...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shoebox (Apr 18, 2012)

Really said:


> Not really :wink:


If you don't have something to add, then please don't bother to make a comment.

OP, My issue with this isn't that you stopped feeding grain. That could certainly be the issue - my issue is that you didn't stop to test out and see if that was the problem, you stopped because you just gave up on her. Saying, "Oh, maybe it's her feed," and then quitting grain is one thing. Going "I give up on you. You don't get any more grain because you'll be dead soon anyways" is the thing that gets me. It sounds like you don't care about her and she's nothing but a tool to you - which would be fine, but they do deserve the same care until the end. I'm glad she's getting better, but maybe take it easy with the riding - and certainly not until you have a saddle that fits her.

I did read that she had access to hay and grass, so I'm glad she still had something to eat. I hope she keeps improving.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Thanks guys  I hear your concerns and I understand. Two IS quite young to break a horse, and it IS quite soon after her lameness issues.

That's why I'm taking her slowly. She's only ridden for short periods, and the plan is to do 3 days on, 3 days off until she's a little more established... then she'll only be ridden once or maximum twice a week for a while, if at all.

My reasons for breaking her now as opposed to waiting until she's three, basically, I don't want to spend a few thousand dollars feeding her for a year only to have her break down on me the moment I start to bring her into work. If that's going to happen, I'd rather it happen now. MANY Thoroughbreds are broke much younger, and yes I am aware that there are huge soundness issues within the breed, but riding around at walk and a little bit of trot is nowhere near as strenuous as race training. By 28 months [I think, can't be bothered doing the math] many have already run their first race.

She is mental and bolts around the pasture at top speed putting a heck of a lot more pressure on her legs and joints than a 110lb [that's sopping wet in riding gear!] rider at walk/trot could. I try to ride even lighter. I'm not banging around on her back and I'm not tearing around like a mad thing. She probably won't even canter for the first time for another 3 or 4 months [want her balanced and confident in walk and trot first], and then probably not again until she's properly 3.

There's no rush. She can't show under saddle until she's 4, so this is all about miles and preparation. She needs a lot of prep. She's ready for this. The ears back "cranky face" expressions in the photos are because she's concerned and so is concentrating intensely on me. Her ears aren't pinned, they're focused. If she wasn't happy she'd have ditched me by now - she is NOT a forgiving horse! She's willing and clever, but not forgiving of mistakes.

What can I say, LYH...? Other than, I got help with her, and learned that what I perceived as HER issues were actually MINE. I was impatient with her, and I didn't allow for what are very real issues - her ear shy troubles for example made bridling impossible/dangerous. The trainer said she's ok with having them pushed forward, but not back. So now, I push them forward through the bridle. It's a little way of accommodating her so she feels like I'm not just trying to dominate. She is a mare that NEEDS partnership, not domination. Don't get me wrong I don't let her get away with anything, it's just a matter of working with her not against her.

I am 18. Still very young. I am a very passionate person - passionately for or passionately against. When I'm happy with my horses, they can do no wrong [I am a stickler for manners, though, so don't worry... they don't get away with any bad behaviour]. When I'm not happy with them I hate them. The combination of the both of us WAS dangerous, because I was doing things that just didn't work for her, and she's too sensitive to be able to cope with that.

Instead of palming her off, when she injured herself I took it as a sign that I was supposed to learn. My horse world would be very limited if I only took on/kept horses that were suited to my inherent personality. There aren't actually too many of those. I have to change for them.

Hence, the last three or four before Magic have all been very similar. ALL pushy, bold, try-their-luck types. As a result my instinctive reaction - which luckily I have mostly managed to temper with her - is to push back, harder, and do as much as it takes to get what I want. As much as it takes, as little as possible - it was my mantra! It's a learning curve, and I think I've finally learned. Either that or Magic has adapted. One of the two.

With Magic, I have to have a totally different approach. ALWAYS the praise, and then show her the right way and make an even bigger fuss then leave her alone for a minute. I'm really annoying when I work with her because I just don't shut up. Even when I'm "leaving her alone" I'm talking to her, telling her how super she is, all that.

I liken her to the "problem child" in the class that's actually lacking a lot of self-confidence and is acting out because of that emotional pain. Most of such kids respond really well to well-timed praise. Sometimes it's hard to find the moment to GIVE them that praise but if they know it's possible, they'll work harder for it. Respond to their bad behaviour with harsh words or punishments, and they shut down and just get naughtier. But ignore the bad [or just ask them to please not do that, and show them the right way instead] and heap praise for the good, and the good becomes more common.

It took me a while to figure out that praise is the key but she'll do ANYTHING for a scratch and a "good girl" now. Even put up with this freak sitting on her back!

edit; re the saddle, it does fit except for gullet size. A half pad has almost completely rectified the slipping forward and her sweat patches [not that there was much of one last ride] are perfect... it's only one size too wide, but unfortunately it's also my primary saddle for my other horse, and his OTHER saddle doesn't fit her at all. Her saddle is far worse at the moment [it will fit when it's been re-stuffed; it's just a bit too banana-shaped atm, but it has fitted a straighter backed horse before, so it can be adjusted to fit her], plus I can't ride in it in my XC vest because the vest gets caught on the cantle.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Maybe she was lame because you worked her too hard too young. If you don't have several years to wait to ride a horse, you shouldn't buy a baby.


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## rbarlo32 (Aug 9, 2010)

blue eyed pony said:


> My reasons for breaking her now as opposed to waiting until she's three, basically, I don't want to spend a few thousand dollars feeding her for a year only to have her break down on me the moment I start to bring her into work. If that's going to happen, I'd rather it happen now.



This imo is a very poor excuse for backing a horse young. If you don't want to pay for feeding a horse you can't ride yet because of her age why did you buy her? If I was you I would wait until she is at least three and start working her lightly then. Yes she might break down but she is less likely too as her skeleton is more mature therefore will be able to put up with being ridden better, she could also have a longer healthier riding career as you would have not put the strain on her joints at such a young age. Playing in a field is very different from being ridden as they have to use their bodies differently.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Why don't you find her a new home and buy a broke 10 year old?

The reason that we don't over work two year olds is because it breaks them down. Then they come up lame. And you have wasted your time and money and messed up a perfectly good horse.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

To the poster who thinks my horses are just tools to me; I don't express emotion very well. I have Asperger's Syndrome, and that makes it difficult for me to identify and express my feelings. I do feel them, incredibly strongly, but it's hard for me to express them.

I adore my horses, I just don't always express it well. If you could see me with them, you certainly wouldn't question it! Moo is my whole world, Monty's a pest but he's "that horse". You know. The one you'd walk through fire for, the one you don't really care that it scares you, you still get on and ride and look forward to doing so. The one you persist with even though in the past week he's bucked you off, bolted on you, stopped at nearly every fence you've pointed him at [that's a me thing, he'll refuse if I'm not "with him" enough], stood on your toes, and ditched you eight times. [I was on the verge of giving up and selling him at the end of that week I can tell you!]

Come about the 4 month mark with any horse, that's about when things start getting really hard for me. The novelty has worn off, so I don't have that "OMG NEW HORSEY" thing going to keep me interested. If the horse is difficult [I have a huge amount of energy/chi/chakra/whatever you call it, most horses I ride/handle are a bit difficult for me... even school ponies] I then get a bit scared of it. One of them I refused to touch for a year, and was very lucky that I had my mother to look after him... I then demanded him back because he was MINE.

I'm trying to break the cycle, and I'm getting there. I've found that I don't hit that stage with horses of a very specific personality type, but not learning to just knuckle down and get on with it is the worst possible thing I can do with my future riding goals in mind. There are few enough horses that can perform to that level, much less do so AND fit in to a specific personality type that I don't "hit the wall" with.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I would not sell you a horse.

Are you actually saying that you get tired of horses after 4 months, then you are afraid of them, then you give them to your family members until they get them trained, then you demand them back? You want to starve and kill a horse with a minor lameness that you caused? And it's all ok, because you have problems with self expression? Or did I not get that right?


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

She wasn't working when she went lame though, that's the thing. Not lunging or anything. That came after, when the vet wanted to see if more exercise would rectify it [minor stifle lock for example goes away when the horse gets fitter].

Best anybody can determine, it's either feed related, or just because she's a BIG Thoroughbred and has a big developed body for her age [vet initially very tentatively brought up OCD as a possibility]. Considering her periods of lameness seem to be directly related to whether she's getting too much grain/protein, we're thinking feed.

I have no problem waiting to ride a horse. I do have a problem waiting to ride THIS horse, because I have a huge amount invested in her emotionally, and I'd rather, if she's going to break down under light work, that it happen sooner, before I get even MORE attached. The money is secondary, but the easier part for me to admit.

edit; please stop twisting my words. I don't get tired of them per se, the novelty factor wears off and it gets harder for me to stick with it. I have trouble sticking with things and not just walking away from my problems. The difficult ones ARE scary to me, after all the concussions I've had and the cracked humerus from coming off Monty [ironically... smack on the four month mark of owning him!] when he bolted on me the one time. I've been hurt a lot of times and scared silly more times than I can count. I haven't got much confidence left in my own ability... which just makes it even MORE insane, I reckon, that I actually find greenies more fun.

Magic was especially challenging to stick with because she was SO much more difficult than I was expecting. I expected what I saw - a sweet horse that was a bit wary, and had issues being caught, and didn't respond well to force. I've dealt with that before, heaps of times, and thought, sure, no big deal, she's just hard to catch. Um. No. She had so much else going on fear-wise in her mind. Then there were all the physical issues she's had, making her financially and emotionally incredibly draining. SHE is the one that I put on the market, because I was so emotionally and financially drained.

Still as financially drained, if not more, but something changed in her when she put the leg through the fence, and a LOT changed in my perception of her. Now she's ok, mentally, and I'm ok with her quirks. So she doesn't like having her ears folded back for bridling... ok. I can accommodate that. It's not her fault she's ear shy. She'll get there eventually. What changed, I think, is that with HER change, I saw HOPE.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

You are attached to her but you are going to euthanize if she is not perfectly sound?

I have a pasture full of old, retired horses that could not hold up to hard work. I am attached to them. I will keep them and feed them as long as they are comfortable and not in pain.


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## PurpleMonkeyWrench (Jun 12, 2012)

blue eyed pony said:


> I have no problem waiting to ride a horse. I do have a problem waiting to ride THIS horse, because I have a huge amount invested in her emotionally, and I'd rather, if she's going to break down under light work, that it happen sooner, before I get even MORE attached. The money is secondary, but the easier part for me to admit.


OHHH MYYYYY :shock: GOODNESS......


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Anybody thinking troll?


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## Copperhead (Jun 27, 2012)

blue eyed pony said:


> She wasn't working when she went lame though, that's the thing. Not lunging or anything. That came after, when the vet wanted to see if more exercise would rectify it [minor stifle lock for example goes away when the horse gets fitter].
> 
> Best anybody can determine, it's either feed related, or just because she's a BIG Thoroughbred and has a big developed body for her age [vet initially very tentatively brought up OCD as a possibility]. Considering her periods of lameness seem to be directly related to whether she's getting too much grain/protein, we're thinking feed.
> 
> I have no problem waiting to ride a horse. I do have a problem waiting to ride THIS horse, because I have a huge amount invested in her emotionally, and I'd rather, if she's going to break down under light work, that it happen sooner, before I get even MORE attached. The money is secondary, but the easier part for me to admit.


That makes absolutely no sense. I wouldn't sell you a horse with this logic either.


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## rbarlo32 (Aug 9, 2010)

Celeste said:


> Anybody thinking troll?


Sadly she is not a troll.

I am on the bad wagon of Going by your logic I would not sell you a horse either. Luckily I am on the other side of the world and more then likes has the wrong type of horse for you. 

I have the most stunning coming 1 year old that I would be super excited to see under saddle but their is no way I will have anyone on his back until he is at least three.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

It makes sense to me, guys... remember that I'm the one who's had to struggle with her soundness issues under no work whatsoever.

I have no problem with her being a pasture puff for the rest of her life, as long as she's happy and comfortable. When she's hurting, she's not. She was 3-legged lame on bad days and was just miserable, the poor thing.

I don't like not knowing. She's sound in the pasture, she's sound being lunged lightly, but will she stay sound as a riding horse? I really don't know, and I really don't like not knowing.

She has at least 6 months [probably more] on a lot of Thoroughbreds. If it's raced, chances are it was broke as a yearling. I understand that it's a sensitive subject for a lot of people, but truly, I believe that it's down to the individual to choose. I don't agree with people saddling 8 month olds [not sitting on them even, just saddling to get them used to the tack]... I don't see the point. You can't even THINK about riding them until they're two, at the very least.

The plan was always to break Magic based on her physical and mental maturity. She's bored in the pasture and needs a job. Her body is easily capable of carrying my measly weight. I don't see anything inherently wrong with breaking them lightly as two year olds, then turning them out or using them as walk/trot trail ponies on very short rides once a week, then bringing them back in as three year olds. I am aware their bones are not fully matured until as late as 5 or 6, even later in some breeds of warmblood and draft... but a light, balanced rider and very light work such that it can't even really be called work? She does far more damage to HERSELF bolting around like a lunatic in the pasture.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

When she is bolting around the pasture, she is not carrying your weight.


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## rbarlo32 (Aug 9, 2010)

Actually the skeleton on all horses mature at the same rate no matter the breed or size. On the most part it doesn't do much damage backing them when they are just shy of their third birthday but Magic has been lame for a long while and therefore needed more time to rest. Justifying training so young by the age race horses are broken in isn't the best of plans either as a lot of then don't make it of the tack and the ones that down a lot on them are lame bar the lucky few who are either started later or sound just for breading.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

And very few OTTB are sound on into their 30's. Of course some are and they can be wonderful horses. But they are sound in spite of being started so early; not because of it.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

What, my 110lb? [and that's sopping wet, in full riding gear!] Yeah, she's carrying that, but when I was two [and most certainly NOT an adolescent!] I quite happily carried 1/10 of my body weight... more on regular occasions... insisting on helping mum bring the groceries in from the car! [I'm small... I was a tiny child lol... so it didn't take much weight for it to be 1/10 of my weight]

Nothing wrong with me. Well.. the stuffed knees are my fault, from soccer/horses/rollerskating/running on hard surfaces/giving friends piggybacks on hard surfaces... I've always been the lightest of my group of friends, so that actually means I carried MORE than my body weight on a regular basis as a young teen!

Are you aware that at the full gallop a horse puts twice its body weight in pressure on each foreleg? That's why tendon injuries and fractures are so common in racehorses.


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

Guys, I think WE all have to accept the OP, does not nor is willing to accept the fact they are far to inexperienced to be dealing with the horses they are and will continue to act as they have despite numerous attempts by MUCH more experienced horsemen, citing one excuse after another as to why their methods are the correct ones even though there are obvious problems. The more we try to help, the more frustrated we will become.

OP, I have said it before & will say it again, you HAVE a lot of potential! But you MUST learn to stand BEFORE you can run. Your intentions are good, but you continue to prove that you are in no way at the level you think and as a result are causing more harm than good. I know it's incredibly hard to hear, I was there a long time ago. PLEASE take a huge step back & "learn to stand" before you unintentionally cause irreparable damage to the horses I have no doubt you love so much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

blue eyed pony said:


> Well.. the stuffed knees are my fault, from soccer/horses/rollerskating/running on hard surfaces/giving friends piggybacks on hard surfaces... I've always been the lightest of my group of friends, so that actually means I carried MORE than my body weight on a regular basis as a young teen!


You even see that it hurt you.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

I class myself as nervous intermediate. Compared to some people I'm a total beginner [Olympians I mean, which is where I want to go eventually], but compared to a good few, I'm "so professional"... yes I have been told that, and not by a non-horse-person either... just someone who's not a very good rider for physical reasons.

My learning so far has been mostly geared towards jumping. Now I'm concentrating a little more on the dressage side of things, so in that field, I haven't got a clue. I can do the basics, mostly, quite well, but ask me to do half pass to the 3/4 line and then a flying change, half pass back to the 1/4 line, and perform a pirouette on the center line level with F, and you'll get a "WTF?" look. On the other hand one of my friends is primarily a dressage rider. You can ask her to do quite complex movements in quick succession and she'll do it, but point her at a 3'7" oxer and she'll break down in tears.

Different skills, not lack thereof. In actual fact up until I bought Monty, I'd never ridden a horse that had any dressage education at all, or much jumping education. They were mostly school ponies, and then later on when I got my own, greenies. I will quite happily admit that before Monty, I didn't have a clue.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

yes Celeste... but we're comparing more than my weight to 1/10 of hers. It's not a fair comparison. I say my knees are stuffed, but I say that knowing that there are people out there far worse off. I don't need knee reconstructions. I don't have arthritis in the knees. They move smoothly and as they should, but I can't ride a bike for the agony. It's probably the riding and very strong inner thighs pulling my knees out of line more than anything else. My outer thighs don't really get worked much. I mean the soccer/piggybacks/running around/falling over obviously won't have helped, but my terrible posture [I slouch] and riding giving me unevenly developed leg muscles are IMO the main factors.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

But you are not 100% sound. Like your horse. 

Why don't you give her a chance? Put her out and let her grow and then start over?


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## Copperhead (Jun 27, 2012)

*head desk*


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

Copper, my thoughts EXACTLY


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

From my perspective, I'm giving her a chance to prove she's sound. I just am not sure whether to believe she is ok or not. I want her to show me that she can hold up to light work. If not, then the only thing she is good for is looking pretty... which I don't really mind so much, I just would like to know. Like I said... I don't like not knowing.

Someone suggested I discuss with my farrier re the grain intolerance possibly/probably being the cause. I am my farrier [I'm not experienced enough to rehab but I know enough to maintain; there are several reasons for this, not least of which being that Moo is still terrified of men despite my best efforts]. My vet does not believe her lameness has, or ever has had, anything to do with her feet. I've had a more experienced farrier have a look at my work, and the general consensus is that it's not hoof related.

The vet is a lameness specialist and identified the stifles as the problem area. It's so feed related, it just makes me wonder if it's either a strange manifestation of an allergy, or protein levels causing problems with something underlying like epiphysitis or OCD. Vet initially thought OCD, now isn't sure.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Let me see if I understand your facts?

You are not trained as a farrier. 
You are doing your own farrier work.
Your horse is lame.
And you want to kill your horse because it is worthlessly lame.

Get a new farrier for starters.


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

You want a recently lame "dead horse walking" to PROVE she's not going to be lame again by riding her despite the fact that she's 1. only a 2 yr old 2. you aren't 100% sure why she was lame in the first place, and 3. you don't want to be responsible enough to give her enough time to properly heal.

What you are saying is that you WANT her to be lame. PERIOD!!!! WAKE UP, GROW UP, AND GET THAT HORSE (and your others for that matter) TO SOMEONE THAT HAS A CLUE!!!!


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## blush (Feb 10, 2007)

Wow.

There are very few people that I would straight up tell them that they should not EVER own a horse.
You my dear, are one of them.

And I don't really have much more to say because I've never been more disgusted by somebody's ignorance in my life than I am with you. I'll be praying for the poor horses you do have, they're going to need it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## loveyourhorse (Jun 17, 2011)

blue eyed pony said:


> Thanks guys  I hear your concerns and I understand. Two IS quite young to break a horse, and it IS quite soon after her lameness issues.
> 
> That's why I'm taking her slowly. She's only ridden for short periods, and the plan is to do 3 days on, 3 days off until she's a little more established... then she'll only be ridden once or maximum twice a week for a while, if at all.
> 
> ...




I'm glad you chose to seek help with her and looked at things from a different point of view.... Good luck with her she seems like a lovely filly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Skunkworks (Oct 22, 2012)

Wow. Just wow. Did you ever consider that maybe, just maybe, you need a different hobby? Just leave animals alone.


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## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

I have a thoroughbred who has consistent lameness issues since I got him almost 3 years ago. If I thought the way you did I would have euthed him 2 years ago. He has finely been sound for 4 months straight now yay. 

I have seen so many babies break down at work (tb stud) from just not being ready for the work load they were given. I'm sorry to say but you have a very back to front way of the thinking.


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

This is ridiculous. Completely, utterly ridiculous.

On what PLANET would you ride a horse you were just about to euth?! Why won't you just turn out to pasture for a few months?! She has to "prove that she is sound"?! Why does a baby have to prove herself for her life if you love her oh so much?! She's a baby!

Ugh, I just can't . . .


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## Lockwood (Nov 8, 2011)

This thread has run it's course.


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