# Irrispondsible excessive breeder, seeks my help to tain a wild herd.



## Kcates11 (Dec 29, 2014)

Hi, I am new to this web site. I decided to create an account because I need some MAJOR advice. Ok, so, a lady that was good friends with one of my family members (I had no idea who she was) discovered that I have horses and enjoy working with them. She the proceeded to tell said family member that she has 20+ horses herself, and she needed help training them. I automatically thought this was going to be fun, I had no clue what I was getting myself into. I was under the impression that she was a trainer and I would assist her, but that was evidently not the case. I showed up there for an "interview" and she was telling me about her horses. I discovered that she started out with a few mares, and a stallion. Of course, you must know where this is going. This went on for years, and did she train the offspring? Nope. She has generations of wild horses now, and she wants me to train them. That's not the worst of it though, her horses come when they are called to get fed and you can get close enough to them to feed them treats, but they have never been handled, or almost not touched. So, essentially, what she has is 20 or more treat/food crazed wild horses, who aren't scared of YOU, but they are afraid to be touched. The most dangerous combination, because they are treat crazy, wild, not scared of humans, full grown, not halter broke, herd sour, and some are aggressive. I don't know what to do and I am the only hope those horses have and she wont hire a real trainer. Ive made some progress but its overwhelming and I don't want to put myself in a dangerous situation so I need any advice I can get, and I am open to any Ideas. If you need any further information to give advice Id be more happy to provide it. I can tell you about all of the horses individually, as they are all in VERY surprisingly different situations. Any help or advice would be GREATLY appreciated! Thank you!


----------



## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

First, I think, some detail about yourself and your horse experience and history would be helpful.


----------



## loveduffy (Dec 22, 2011)

Welcome to the forum and first get the vet out and fix the stallion (s) after that remove them from the heard .I am not saying this is easy, but must be done so the heard will calm down. work with the ones that seem that there will be ok to work with them slow start with the harder ones Always work with someone with you just in case


----------



## Kcates11 (Dec 29, 2014)

Okay, no problem! (I apologize, Im not very good at wording things) I am only 15 so, yes, I know I'm young, but I'm not one of those teen aged girls that thinks they know everything about horses, because I know I don't I still have years of learning to go! But considering my age i've had great opportunities to experience horses in different ways. I've been around horses my whole life but I never had the opportunity to start riding until I was about 8 or 9, as my family was poor and couldn't afford lessons. I lived in NH until I was around 8 or 9 and I moved to FL. It wasn't until I moved to Fl that I had a chance to ride. My grandparents knew a lady who lived close by them (in Florida) who owned horses, so they asked if I could come over sometime and see there horses. They said yes, so I went over and she said she would teach me how to ride if I wanted, (of course I was over joyed and said yes) (I had ridden a handful of times before on some backyard horses in NH, but not much) This lady had 4 endurance horses, and I learned how to ride over there on her 14 year old arabian gelding Huck. I did endurance/dressage over there until I was about 11, then I met a girl doing endurance named Kelsey Russel (she was on the USA world endurance team this last year at age 18) She asked my to help ride at her aunts house who trains horses, she does barrel racing (I never liked it, so I would just ride the non barrel racing horses over there that were there for training) so I worked with problem horses and green young horses (With Kelseys aunts help of course) Up to this day, and I no longer require assistance with it. I also worked for another trainer who has reining horses. So I have ridden many different kinds of horses. I still do endurance, and a little dressage, and I ride a lot of different peoples horses who pay me to. That is how I came across the lady who wants my help with her 20 horses.


----------



## loveduffy (Dec 22, 2011)

I hope there is pay in it for you because it is going to take a lot of time


----------



## Kcates11 (Dec 29, 2014)

All the stallions are away from the herd, I wish I had another person out there to help, but its just me. I have started working with the younger ones and the only older one ive made progress with is luna, a 3 yo filly. I halter broke her and have done all the ground work with her and Ive been on back a few times, she is great. I have not had such success with many of the others.


----------



## Kcates11 (Dec 29, 2014)

As in "older" I mean older than a yearling, they are the easy ones.


----------



## loveduffy (Dec 22, 2011)

the big question is what are ( owner ) going to do with them after you work and get them good again ?


----------



## NovemberMist (Mar 16, 2013)

i agree with loveduffy; get the stallions gelded as quickly as possible, and get them out of there to calm the herd. Start slow, and ALWAYS have some one else with you, preferably some one with lots of horse experience as well.

What is she planning to do with the horses after they're gentled?


----------



## Kcates11 (Dec 29, 2014)

There is, but in all reality I should be getting more (not to sound like I think I'm all that) but a lot of people ask me to work with or ride their horses, so she should mostly be paying for my time. If she didn't need the help so desperately I would go to someone else, and I would if I was in it for the money, but I'm not and this experience is good for me.


----------



## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

Well.... the best advise is to run away from this lady. You didn't mention your experience level, other than saying you weren't a real trainer. You didn't mention what type of facilities the lady has. Is there enclosed space to work individual horses? Is it possible to separate the ones you will work from the others? 

Lots of red flags here, and I think you've seen them, but have convinced yourself that you are these horses "only hope". 

1. After all this time, she suddenly wants them trained? I think she has smelled money somewhere.

2. I get the impression she wants you to do this for free? She won't hire a "real trainer", but wants you to risk your life and health. For what? Do you have good insurance coverage?

3. A good number of these horses are going to be intact stallions. They should be gelded before anything else is done with them. Will she foot the bill for that? I'm guessing no, since she apparently hasn't spent a dime yet on farriery or vet care.

Maybe not what you wanted to hear, but I hope that helps some.

For what it's worth, when I was 20 and indestructible, I would have jumped all over this. But not for free, and not just for some chump change.


----------



## Kcates11 (Dec 29, 2014)

I believe she is trying to sell as many as she can, and reduce her herd dramatically. She even said she'd give some away. I told her that was a bad Idea because nobody wants a 4-13 year old they cant touch and theyll end up in the slaughter house. I want to give them a chance at a good life if i can


----------



## loveduffy (Dec 22, 2011)

You should work out a deal that you get some money as she sells there horses a percentage of what she sell them for it is your work that makes them sell able


----------



## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

Thank you for your candid reply, now some of the trainers here (I am not one) will know better how to help/advise you.

This is a very tall order to be handed to you.

There is a young woman here who was asked to help with an inherited bunch of a dozen or more horses. She first sorted them out determining which were the least apt to be trained/used and arranged to sell them off. Split the pasturing/keeping of the others to be a the best benefit to all. Had them wormed and vetted, sorting out others with conditions that made them less suitable. Thereby downsized to a more manageable number to work with.

Don't know if taking that track would be of any benefit to you. Will be following to see how thing come along. Good luck.


----------



## Kcates11 (Dec 29, 2014)

I'm not the kind of person who "wants to hear" anything in particular. I am 15, I'm a teen, of course I'm not a professional yet, but she's a friend of my grandmas who wasn't going to seek help elsewhere. I thought I'd tackle the project. Believe it or not I have actually made progress, I already said that she has had all of her stallions gelded. I have them all on their own schedule. Of course it will take time, but like I said, Im 15 time is all I have. I told her right of the bat the exact horses I wont attempt to handle because its not worth it for me. I wont put myself in a situation with a horse that I think will hurt me. I like , to learn by experience, I have learned that even though I may not be scared , Im not going to be stupid. It is hard to portray the situation without actually showing someone what these horses are like. They are not bad horses, they were just not raised properly. I work with each horse individually in the round pen, and I have been able to halter break quite a few. I'm looking for advice as far as training the horses, not what I should do in the situation. I already know what i am going to do. I am going to train each and every one of those horses, not because I think i know everything, or because I think Im a pro. I love horses, and I love doing this. I know it will take time. Im in no rush, I take it one step at a time.  Thanks for the advice though!


----------



## Kcates11 (Dec 29, 2014)

Thank you all for the advice, It is greatly appreciated! I love what I do and a project like this may be big for someone young like me, but, you don't make a name in this world by doing whats expected of you, you make one by doing what nobody expected of you, and by that you make an impression! I may be young but I have learned to be me and not what others want me to be. Yes, I understand that this may not be what any other teen aged girl done, so i understand people thinking its too much for me, im not every teen aged girl.  I know i still have A LOT to learn, thats why im asking.


----------



## Kcates11 (Dec 29, 2014)

I've been working over there for months, but haven't done much only because I don't know where to start honestly. But I think that getting many others opinions will help me.


----------



## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

OK then, your original post asks for major advice. Your situation is:

You've been asked by a family friend
20+ horses to train
stallions, mares, youngsters
all treat mongers but untouchable
no fear of people

The first 3 items on the list seem not to be problems. The stallions have been gelded.

Is the advice you are asking for; 'how to approach training horses that might not be afraid to hurt you'?


----------



## Kcates11 (Dec 29, 2014)

Well, more so how to train horses who are untouchable and see a human and think "treat despenser".


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

have the colts also been gelded? the ones that are now so young that they are not thought of as stallions?

I think you're a really neat person, and I admire your spunk mixed with a certain amount of reality ( you know you are in a tough spot, and you know you are not a pro).

I fear that when you work for people who are irresponsible, they tend to stay that way. that means, that YOU will , sooner or later, become the 'beneficiary' of her irresponsibility, and it could be in a very bad way. you are NOT their only hope. 
there are rescues which could take some of these animals, and , why must she get rid of this herd, if she's had it THIS long, why now? why can they not continue to be a herd of treat loving pasture animals?


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

This is insanity! 

However it is the sort of project that I would have relished! 

As your time is limited due to school (I assume) then you work on one horse at a time. 

You need to be able to seperate one from the herd and have this in a pen and work on that from the pen. Get them halter broken and then sell. Cut the numbers right down and work on the ones you like. 

To have 20+ wild horses to get handled and ridden is a full task and not for one person on their own. 

It is nigh impossible to do anything with them if they are all together. You need to have facilities to manage. A chute to run them through to get halters on them, a round pen to handle them in and pens to keep them apart. If the woman is not prepared to set this up and employ someone with experience then there is little hope for the horses or your safety. 

Be careful.


----------



## equitate (Dec 14, 2012)

walk away...it's not worth the danger.


----------



## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

If its not too dangerous halter break them and leave it at that, at that stage she may get some takers on the younger ones if she advertises properly. I think the risk of riding them is too great for poor money. Plus the time. If you're really interested in breaking them work out a fair percentage of the sale price then break them in and sell them on.


----------



## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

As Foxhunter has said, I would have loved it. Had some situations as a teen that were like this only without smaller numbers.

What kind of set-up do you have? Do you have a couple of small pens where you can separate out 2 of them? If not, Tell this woman that you will work with her horses, 2 at a time, if she builds you a 40 foot round pen and a small square pen. DO NOT feed or keep any horses in the round pen because you will ruin the footing and make it slick. Any pens MUST be made of good panels (100 pounds per 10 foot panel or heavier) or built rigid. You cannot safely do this without some tools and a small pen or two and a round pen are essential. You should also have a good place to tie a horse solidly. It must be safe and at least 5 foot high. Tell me if any place is available and I will help you with a way to tie a horse where you can release it without putting yourself in jeopardy. 

We have always used a chute in a small square pen to catch wild horses and halter them. Then, you can let them drag a 12 - 14 foot nylon rope until you get them where you can handle, halter and lead them. A heavy duty panel fastened 2 feet from a rigid 'square' corner will make a useable chute. We place ours where we can swing the pen gate behind the chute and trap even a 1200# horse.

Now, start with the youngest horses, two at a time, and work your way up. They are easier to get gentle, easier to handle and easier to sell without being ridden. If they are gentle, have ground manners, are easy to handle and ready to start under saddle, they can be sold. Just sell them for $100.00 over killer price and that insures that someone is not lying to get them cheap enough to resell by the pound. 

I would tell this woman that you will gentle and help her sell this bunch for 1/2 of what they sell for. She should give you 2/3 or 3/4 of what they bring, but since you are not real experienced, 1/2 of what they bring should be a bargain for her and you should learn a lot in the process.

If it starts to work for you, just work yourself up to the older horses. Start with yearlings, then the 2 year olds, and so on. Once a horse is past 2, it does not make much difference if it is 5 or 6 or 10. Husband's ranch gelding was broke when he was 8 or 9 and he was barely halter broke as a yearling, turned out for 7 years and not handled for that many years when he started him. [Husband, by the way, is 73 and has had a stroke and he can go out catch him and just saddle him and ride off. He is a really nice gelding.]

You have not said what kind of horses these are? Are the registered? Are they bred to be good saddle horses? There will be a lot of difference in what you can get done with them depending on breeding and type.


----------



## GreySorrel (Mar 5, 2012)

Kcates11 said:


> There is, but in all reality I should be getting more (not to sound like I think I'm all that) but a lot of people ask me to work with or ride their horses, so she should mostly be paying for my time. If she didn't need the help so desperately I would go to someone else, and I would if I was in it for the money, but I'm not and this experience is good for me.


You asked what you should be teaching these untouched horses, so here is what they should be doing without a fight, least to me, to be a good start should they be sold. 

Picking up their hooves, each of them, without a fight and stand for the farrier.

Be able to touch them all over and be groomed

Be led, turn, stop and stand till you say to move

Be caught in the field and a halter put on

Familiar and okay with clippers, as well as the sounds they make

Not spooky around a tarp, slicker coat, bags, horse blankets, clanking metal buckets, etc. 

Stand quietly

Bathe without complaint or dancing around

Be in cross ties

That is some of the things I can think of off the top of my head. As for you thinking you need to be paid more, not sure what you are being paid now but honestly, I get paid well for what I know, for what I do, and it came from YEARS of experience. We all have to start from the bottom up.....


----------



## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

Kcates11 said:


> I'm not the kind of person who "wants to hear" anything in particular. I am 15, I'm a teen, of course I'm not a professional yet, but she's a friend of my grandmas who wasn't going to seek help elsewhere. I thought I'd tackle the project. Believe it or not I have actually made progress, I already said that she has had all of her stallions gelded. I have them all on their own schedule. Of course it will take time, but like I said, Im 15 time is all I have. I told her right of the bat the exact horses I wont attempt to handle because its not worth it for me. I wont put myself in a situation with a horse that I think will hurt me. I like , to learn by experience, I have learned that even though I may not be scared , Im not going to be stupid. It is hard to portray the situation without actually showing someone what these horses are like. They are not bad horses, they were just not raised properly. I work with each horse individually in the round pen, and I have been able to halter break quite a few. I'm looking for advice as far as training the horses, not what I should do in the situation. I already know what i am going to do. I am going to train each and every one of those horses, not because I think i know everything, or because I think Im a pro. I love horses, and I love doing this. I know it will take time. Im in no rush, I take it one step at a time.  Thanks for the advice though!


Thanks for the reply. You had already clarified several things by the time I had typed my first reply. Plenty of good advise already given. Main thing to me is separate them and prioritize them, which it seems you've already begun. 

As mentioned, concentrate on one, maybe two at a time. The others have lasted this long, they'll be OK. 

Start with the youngest and most marketable.

Take Cherie up on her offer of online help. If you can find her posts on training, they are well worth the read. The fact that she, and a couple others have offered help rather than discouragement speaks volumes. Your experience seems to be much more than most your age these days. 

I'll join in on reminding you to keep up on your school work. You also haven't mentioned where your parents stand on all this. 

Also mentioned, and I'm still convinced, that this lady is taking advantage of you. I don't know if you're already locked in, but as others have mentioned a percentage of the sale price is a fair deal.


----------



## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

Forgot to add. Accept nothing less than impeccable ground manners from the ones you are working. That will go a long way in helping to sell them. 

And, were it me, I'd also want pick of the litter. Just because I kinda like horses.


----------



## greenhaven (Jun 7, 2014)

Foxhunter said:


> This is insanity!
> 
> However it is the sort of project that I would have relished!
> 
> As your time is limited due to school (I assume) then you work on one horse at a time.


I am with Foxhunter! But the rest have also given great advice. My very first thought was also to work with only one or two at a time, otherwise you are certainly stretching your time too thin. Prioritizing them by potential for learning and resale is also very, very wise.

I also second getting an agreement for a percentage of resale, if that really is her objective. You stated you did not really know that for sure?

You will likely come out on the short end of the stick as far as what your time is truly worth, but I agree with you that this is an excellent opportunity for you to hone valuable skills on a variety of horses. I am a little jealous, frankly! 

One last word, do be careful. You might run across some in that bunch that are not worth the risk of injury or death to you. You are young and have a lot of life ahead of you, and it would be a shame if some rogue horse took that from you. So feel confident in your ability to say "I am not interested in working with such-and-such horse."


----------



## Blue (Sep 4, 2011)

I have very little to add as there's already been so much excellent advice. Mostly want to say that you need to stay grounded. On most of these horses you're not going to achieve the perfect results you would want from some of the others you've worked with in the past. If you work with the youngsters and get them moving along, you could possibly choose 1 or 2 really exceptional ones out of the entire bunch to spend some extra time with and bring them along a little further. Maybe those one or two would bring in more money.

I also am curious what your parents have to say about this? Are they supportive of this endeavor? Don't let school take a back seat. That's important too. Do you have an FFA or 4H program? Perhaps this could be part of your grade. That always looks great on a resume.

And last I'd like to say that reading all about this makes me wish I was an indestructible teenager again! Is this a foolish thing to do? You bet! But if we're all honest there's very few of us that wouldn't have jumped at this experience. What an opportunity for you as long as you keep a good head on your shoulders and maintain a plan.

Good luck!
(can you post pictures?)


----------



## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

What kind of shape are their feet in? Also worm loads? General health?


----------



## Kcates11 (Dec 29, 2014)

My parents got a divorce and my mom passes away, so i live with my grandparents. I have excellent grades too!  there is a lot of information here and its difficult to respond to it all, everyone in my family is on my side though.


----------



## Kcates11 (Dec 29, 2014)

These horses are quarter horses, they have decent feet (not good, but alright, considering) they are in pretty good over all heath.


----------



## Kcates11 (Dec 29, 2014)

I have had experience with wild horses like this before, this isn't my first time. She isn't the only person I work for though. I also work for a reiner/trainer, endurance rider, dressage rider/trainer, and a barrel racer. I know this is a seemingly dangerous situation, but ive been over there long enough to get to know these horses, and they aren't bad or mean (excluding a select few) they just don't know anything. To anyone who is giving words of advice discouraging me from this, not to mean any disrespect, but peoples discouragement drives me. If people just talk it out with me, without saying I shouldn't do it, I am more apt to talk myself out of it on my own. I am not being big headed or anything I just know myself and the way I think. I understand that It is very difficult for me to explain the exact situation to you without actually being able to show you. You should all know that your advice is greatly appreciated and shall be used. I am not a teen who goes about things in any rash manner, I put a lot of thought into this, and I decided that I am going to do what I am able to, and the rest ill leave alone. I am not like other teens in the way that I almost always subconsciously underestimate what I can do. As of now though, I have seen quite a bit of progress in these horses and i am proud of what I've done.


----------



## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Honestly, you need to forego this one. Good way to get yourself hurt, and profit nothing but hospital bills.

Florida has all sorts of horse opportunities, and you can find some place to work at for pay, and what you will be learning will have value.

I ran into deal just like this you are dealing with, when I first moved up here, only she had about 200 horses, of lackluster QH breeding. Registered stock but as far from the breed specs as possible. Just horses.

No vet care to speak of, as she believed in "natural" and horses didn't need de-worming nor vaccinations.

She got in bind and had to sell off a bunch, so got some Amish to halter break a lot of them.

Had an auction, don't know what happened to any others, but the ones I do know about, most of them died, because they were so worm loaded, and poor.


----------



## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

I know that this seems to be a great opportunity, but I think that this woman is using you. She has a real hoarding problem, and nothing will get any better until she lets go of most of these horses and reduces the herd to 5 or fewer horses. There just isn't enough time to fix a whole herd. This is why the Mustang Challenge allows trainers one horse at a time to fully train, so that their full attention can be given to that one horse.
I was only able to retrain 5 horses at a time when I had a small riding academy and used them in my lessons. Each horse was ridden 3-5 hrs/week/winter Saturdays, and 5-20 hours/week when I had both lessons and a CW Reenactment. ALL was training and I didn't have to do it all, just supervise the lessons with students as my helpers. Everybody benefitted, and I taught for 10 years. And, my herd leader helped train all of them.
There IS NO well trained herd leader. The owner is an idiot. You are very young.* I doubt her insurance pays for your injuries.*
I don't know how I would ever handle a herd THIS LARGE.
Walk away. 
You won't have to look very hard for somebody else over the head with ONLY one or two horses, that needs help that you can offer.


----------



## TessaMay (Jul 26, 2013)

It may be helpful for you to start a training journal as you work with these horses. If you get stuck with something on a horse (either now or in the future) you can read back over what you did with others to help spark ideas.


----------



## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I, too, would halter break what I could, encourage the woman to sell those and any I wasn't able to get much done with, and keep two, three, or four that showed the best brains and conformation.

And, yeah, I would have thought a situation like this was heaven sent at 15, well maybe 14. At 15 I moved to racetracks full-time and quickly grew to appreciate a paycheck.


----------



## gee50 (Dec 31, 2014)

Hi Kcates11, this is my first post here so your the lucky one. No problem!!!!!! You can do this. If you been riding since you were 9 in all these disciplines I have all the confidence that your 6 years of experience is just fine. I have never seen a little 14H cowpony working Dressage. So no doubt you have been around some big 1300lb, 17H Geldings.

Okay first off is gentling. It's real simple. Get a halter on the horse. Then safely tie the horse to the appropriate level round pen rail. I am assuming there are no gentling pens or your ability to make one. But if there are any shuts around they work good to. Next. Advance and retreat. Do that a couple of times. To both sides of the horse. Horses are bilateral learners. Then advance, rub the withers and retreat. Again both sides. Continue until you can do this anywhere on the horse. A fake arm made of a long wood handle with cloth over it and work glove is a good extension when first reaching down to the legs. Better to kick the stick then you. This should only take a day or so.

Next. Do a Hook-On session. Send me a PM and I'll explain it so no one gets P.O.ed here. :-(

Then you are on your way to do desensitization. Within 5 days you will be ready for ground work. You should be able to get all the basics in within 2 weeks or so. If you are going to start any of the horse that are 2+ year olds let me know. Generally you can start a horse within an hour.

Even if you don't get payed. Or the Old bag keeps hording horses. This is collage level Horsemanship. Few people ever get this chance in life. As for the monsters. Let me know. I'll guide you through them too. Good luck little sister.


----------



## Kcates11 (Dec 29, 2014)

Thank You! That was a really helpful post, and it sounds like a good plan!  I shall let you know how all of this goes. I have managed to get a lot done in the past few weeks too. The horses seem to be really coming around! Yes, these horses are much smaller than the ones I'm used to handling, and they aren't unkind horses either, they just need someone to work and spend time with them. I talked to my boss and she said she wants to get down to around 6 or 8 and that seems reasonable considering she has so many. I have been working with two of the older geldings and one gelding I have been working on getting him fit (as he is already broke he just needed a refresher) I have started ring work undersaddle with one of the five year old mares (she is really green Ive been on her like 5 or 6 times) I enjoy this and because of the help Ive gotten on here I have made loads of progress! I am so proud!


----------



## Blue (Sep 4, 2011)

Keep us posted!


----------



## freia (Nov 3, 2011)

Not your circus, not your monkeys...

You are not these horses' only hope. You have no responsibility for the pickle the horse-owner is in.

This is a pretty dangerous, daunting, overwhelming task - training a wild herd of 20. You are very mature, realistic, and seem knowledgable about horses beyond your age. However, regardless of your skill, enthusiasm, and teenage indestructability, I am very afraid that you will get physically hurt during this project. I also have a feeling that the horse owner is going to "screw you over" at some point. A person who breeds a wild herd, then brings in a 15-year-old to fix her problems, is not the type of person I would ever want to deal with.

Walk away, while you're still uninjured.


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

This many horses with no other experienced help and probably no real training facilities?
Sorry - really bad idea no matter how exciting it sounds
I did spend all my youth around yards where horses were trained but there was always someone good around to give that much needed help when you wanted it
Corporal already mentioned insurance but I'm going to second it. Many US health insurance companies won't cover you for injuries that need treatment that are caused by someone else's horses. Does this woman even have any insurance?
I wonder if most of the horses are even worth the effort if they've all been running together at times to reproduce how many are inbred?


----------



## Kcates11 (Dec 29, 2014)

You guys, please, why such the discouragement? Not to mean any disrespect, but you have never seen these horses or handled them before, I, on the other hand, have. I understand I may have made the situation sound much worse than it is, and, that, I have. Nobody's ever gotten respect by being a coward. Of course I'm not going to be a prideful idiot and try to train them all. Ill post some pics, If i cant tell you why I cant say no, Ill show you!  Most of them are total sweethearts!


----------



## Kcates11 (Dec 29, 2014)

This is Sam, 8 years old, has been halter broke for about three weeks, lunges both directions, has excellent ground manners. he is as calm as can be!


----------



## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Cordillera Cowboy said:


> Forgot to add. Accept nothing less than impeccable ground manners from the ones you are working. That will go a long way in helping to sell them.
> 
> And, were it me, I'd also want pick of the litter. Just because I kinda like horses.


I didn't catch what you were getting paid but I would get them halter broke and feet handled, help her sell the, and take 50% of the sale amount.


----------



## Kcates11 (Dec 29, 2014)

This is Treasure, she is 5. Already broke and sold her to a family I knew that has a little girl who rides her now.


----------



## freia (Nov 3, 2011)

Just be careful, please.


----------



## Kcates11 (Dec 29, 2014)

This is stormy, I am keeping him. He is coming to my house in a week. He was halter broke when I got there


----------



## Canterklutz (Jul 20, 2012)

Kcates11 said:


> You guys, please, why such the discouragement? Not to mean any disrespect, but you have never seen these horses or handled them before, I, on the other hand, have. I understand I may have made the situation sound much worse than it is, and, that, I have. Nobody's ever gotten respect by being a coward. Of course I'm not going to be a prideful idiot and try to train them all. Ill post some pics, If i cant tell you why I cant say no, Ill show you!  Most of them are total sweethearts!


If you are not willing to listen to the insightful advice others have given you there is no point in continuing this discussion. Many people here bring to the table long histories and experiences training horses probably even longer than you've been alive. Pictures have absolutely no value in this discussion as they are only a one second snapshot in time that do not give complete insight to a situation. 

I third the insurance thing as well. You may not know anything about it but as Jaydee also stated, health insurances won't cover injuries caused by someone else's horse. Not only can the costs quickly surmount to something astronomical but you may end up suffering permanent damage at the expense of nothing other than the thought of this idea boosting your ego. Not worth it. If you want to attain horse training experience, become a working student for a reputable trainer.


----------



## Kcates11 (Dec 29, 2014)

This is a two year old, ive gotten her halter broke  I am always as careful, as careful as i can possibly be!


----------



## jamesdean57 (Feb 2, 2013)

I don't know why but I can't see the pictures.


----------



## dlady (Apr 13, 2013)

LOL, I can't see them either.


----------



## Kcates11 (Dec 29, 2014)

They went away... lol... Idk what happened


----------



## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Canterklutz said:


> If you are not willing to listen to the insightful advice others have given you there is no point in continuing this discussion. Many people here bring to the table long histories and experiences training horses probably even longer than you've been alive. Pictures have absolutely no value in this discussion as they are only a one second snapshot in time that do not give complete insight to a situation.
> 
> I third the insurance thing as well. You may not know anything about it but as Jaydee also stated, health insurances won't cover injuries caused by someone else's horse. Not only can the costs quickly surmount to something astronomical but you may end up suffering permanent damage at the expense of nothing other than the thought of this idea boosting your ego. Not worth it. If you want to attain horse training experience, become a working student for a reputable trainer.


where I'm from your health insurance would cover you.


----------



## Canterklutz (Jul 20, 2012)

churumbeque said:


> where I'm from your health insurance would cover you.


Most companies do not. It is called third party liability. Accident or trauma related injuries are coded differently if another party is deemed liable. Insurance companies will not cover this and will go after the responsible party's insurance. If this woman does not have the means to properly care for her horses I pretty much doubt she is covered.


----------



## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

Canterklutz said:


> If you are not willing to listen to the insightful advice others have given you there is no point in continuing this discussion. Many people here bring to the table long histories and experiences training horses probably even longer than you've been alive. Pictures have absolutely no value in this discussion as they are only a one second snapshot in time that do not give complete insight to a situation.......


I disagree that further discussion is pointless. True, almost all the experienced people who have replied, have stated that the best advice is to run away. However, many of us old timers also seem to see ourselves in this kid.

Since we can't discourage her from taking it on, I for one, would like to see frequent updates on the project.


----------



## Blue (Sep 4, 2011)

I can't see the pictures either! Disappointed. 

As far as insurance goes, there are plenty of activities that I enjoy that insurance wouldn't cover. Does it stop me? No. 

I'm not trying to talk this young lady in to or out of anything, but people that live their lives based on what insurance will cover are a sad lot. In fact most of my learning and enjoyment were with no insurance at all!

OP, just be careful and keep us posted. 

Why can't I see the pictures?


----------



## Canterklutz (Jul 20, 2012)

Blue said:


> I'm not trying to talk this young lady in to or out of anything, but people that live their lives based on what insurance will cover are a sad lot. In fact most of my learning and enjoyment were with no insurance at all!


What is more sad is having to live with permanent and life altering injuries while paying astronomical and mounting medical bills and dealing with insurance companies and litigation. There are safer ways she can seek out learning and enjoyment without certain risks such as taking an apprenticeship with a reliable trainer.


----------



## Blue (Sep 4, 2011)

Canterklutz said:


> What is more sad is having to live with permanent and life altering injuries while paying astronomical and mounting medical bills and dealing with insurance companies and litigation. There are safer ways she can seek out learning and enjoyment without certain risks such as taking an apprenticeship with a reliable trainer.


Everything has risks. But, you're right, those are very real concerns and something to be taken into consideration. I was walking my dog and fell. Broke my wrist and spent two years in physical therapy hoping to get the use of my right hand back. A dear friend lost her mother because she tripped and hit her nose on the night stand. Brain hemorrhage. A local high school boy was hit head on by a drunk driver... The list is endless and sad. I'm not in any way saying what this girl is trying to do is "smart". It's not. Do you really think she's going to listen to you? 

This young girl is going to do what she needs to do and I for one would like updates.


----------



## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

What is even more sad is having paid all kinds of insurance premiums in a timely manner for 37 years, Life, Health, Auto, PMI, Homeowner's, Travelers, .... Insurance just in case of accident with an uninsured party.... 

And then your husband is involved in an terrible accident that is not his fault, ALL of the insurance companies involved fight the claims, and postpone paying out any claims until too late. 

You loose everything. All material goods, your home, it breaks apart your family. You have to hire an attorney and pay the attorney 33% of the eventual proceeds, of which the insurance companies also subjugate the medical bills they did pay and there is nothing left for you.

I have a great deal of animosity for insurance companies. 

In Ohio there is a law forcing you to pay for Auto insurance or your drivers license will be suspended, if you do not pay your premiums in a timely manner your coverage lapses. Yet there are no laws or regulations making the same insurance companies pay legitimate claims in a timely manner, or at all that I can tell.

P.S. I also would like updates from the OP, and cannot see the pics either.


----------



## Kcates11 (Dec 29, 2014)

You guys can go back and forth all day, talking about the "what if's" and insurance, which really, either way in life injurys like that can happen, that's just life. I believe in Jesus Christ, that he died on the cross and saved me from my sins so that I can tell other people what he has done in my life. I trust God to protect me, and if it is in his will that I get injured (although I am careful as can be) than I trust that it was in his will. I'm going to share a small story. Well, it kinda goes like this: (short version) ever since I was a child I wanted to have a horse so badly, and I would pray almost very night that I would have a horse someday, more specifically a white one (as we were poor and it was TOTALLY out of the question) I never thought it was going to happen. As I got older I was always trying to find a way to spend time with horses and have one of my own (I never knew how poor we were) then after years of perusing horses, I made a decision, I decided I wasn't going to peruse it anymore (I still wanted a horse) I told God in a prayer "God, I am perfectly content with where you have placed me in life, and if it's in your will for me to have a horse, so be it, if not, oh well" it wasn't even an hour later that our house phone rang (this was after my moms death so I was living with my grandparents who have money and land) my grandpa (who was almost completely against me having a horse) answered the phone, it was a friend of a friend asking if we wanted this little yearling colt they were trying to get rid of. If you knew my grandpa, you would know it was a miracle that he said yes! So the next day, a friend of a friend, dropped off my very first horse at our house, and of course....he was white. From that day on, I knew that I could trust God no matter what. I know that story may mean nothing to you, but it changed my life. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kcates11 (Dec 29, 2014)

Oh yeah, and I know all about tragic accidents, my mom was jogging when I was ten, she got hit by a teen who was texting and driving and died. But I know all things work together for good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blue (Sep 4, 2011)

anndankev said:


> What is even more sad is having paid all kinds of insurance premiums in a timely manner for 37 years, Life, Health, Auto, PMI, Homeowner's, Travelers, .... Insurance just in case of accident with an uninsured party....
> 
> And then your husband is involved in an terrible accident that is not his fault, ALL of the insurance companies involved fight the claims, and postpone paying out any claims until too late.
> 
> ...


We too are "required" to have insurance. But, if you're involved in an accident with an illegal alien with no insurance, you're out of luck.


----------



## Kcates11 (Dec 29, 2014)

I will try to repost the pics tomorrow
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Canterklutz (Jul 20, 2012)

Blue said:


> Everything has risks. But, you're right, those are very real concerns and something to be taken into consideration. I was walking my dog and fell. Broke my wrist and spent two years in physical therapy hoping to get the use of my right hand back. A dear friend lost her mother because she tripped and hit her nose on the night stand. Brain hemorrhage. A local high school boy was hit head on by a drunk driver... The list is endless and sad. I'm not in any way saying what this girl is trying to do is "smart". It's not. Do you really think she's going to listen to you?
> 
> This young girl is going to do what she needs to do and I for one would like updates.


Everything has risks as you said but we take steps to ensure our safety as well. We take risks whenever we drive a car and no matter how safely we try to do it we may end up in an unfortunate accident because we cannot control all factors. It doesn't stop us from enforcing wearing a seat belt right?

What she is doing isn't smart, recommended, or safe and she is clearly being exploited in this situation. The woman is taking advantage of her ego and naivete. To encourage this is in a way somewhat perverse and reckless. She is a minor and lacks experience. 

God has also given you the advise and words of different people. It's kinda like the boat and flood joke where the priest says "I prayed to you so why didn't you save me?" and God says "I sent you three boats!" Blind faith does nothing but make those prone to foolishness.


----------



## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I didn't worry about anything. I just rode everything people drug down the driveway from the time I was 13. Many times I broke 2 horses for one of them -- and I had to feed most of them.


----------



## Kcates11 (Dec 29, 2014)

1. I do have a reputable reining traininer that I work along side of, a lot.
2. This is only a side job, as it's easy money.
3. I spend most of my time taking dressage lessons, and doing endurance.
4. These horses are a lot more easy going than most of the Arabs I ride.
5. This is just for fun
6. I only go there maybe 1 or 2 times a week
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kcates11 (Dec 29, 2014)

It's okay though, I had already made my mind up a long time ago that once I got back into endurance, I was going to quit over there, and focus fully on my little Arabs. Which I like doing that and dressage a lot better anyways, because the people I'm with are professionals. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kcates11 (Dec 29, 2014)

So yes, even before I posted this, I'm not completely ignorant as some of you may think, this post was a confirmation for me that I should quit. I just wanted as many opinions as I could get.  I've actually got an endurance ride coming up in about two weeks, I'm riding a 7 year old arabian gelding named rocky.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

So you_ never_ had any intention of following through with this training plan, even though you said you would a bunch of times? This was all for opinions? How much of this story was a lie?


----------



## EncinitasM (Oct 5, 2014)

Kcates11 said:


> So yes, even before I posted this, I'm not completely ignorant as some of you may think, this post was a confirmation for me that I should quit. I just wanted as many opinions as I could get.  I've actually got an endurance ride coming up in about two weeks, I'm riding a 7 year old arabian gelding named rocky.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you seek confirmation opinions don't argue with the people giving them to you.

In case you don't know, and apparently you don't, what you've done here is one of the most irritating things a person can do, getting a bunch of people riled up on purpose by stating one thing and then later revealing the opposite of that thing is true. Maybe you should find work on Fox news.


----------



## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Canterklutz said:


> Most companies do not. It is called third party liability. Accident or trauma related injuries are coded differently if another party is deemed liable. Insurance companies will not cover this and will go after the responsible party's insurance. If this woman does not have the means to properly care for her horses I pretty much doubt she is covered.


 I thought the same and checked into it. Your insurance covers anything that someone else won't cover. So they might try and get her to pay but if not your insurance would kick in as a back up.


----------



## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Canterklutz said:


> What is more sad is having to live with permanent and life altering injuries while paying astronomical and mounting medical bills and dealing with insurance companies and litigation. There are safer ways she can seek out learning and enjoyment without certain risks such as taking an apprenticeship with a reliable trainer.


Many people killed in freak accidents on safe horses. It doesn't sound to me that she is risking her life on a dangerous animal.


----------



## Blue (Sep 4, 2011)

O well. It was a lively and civil discussion for sure. Too bad it wasn't all on the up and up. However, it's nice to know that so many people are willing to express their concerns for her safety. I wish her luck.


----------



## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Kcates11 said:


> You guys, please, why such the discouragement? Not to mean any disrespect, but you have never seen these horses or handled them before, I, on the other hand, have. I understand I may have made the situation sound much worse than it is, and, that, I have. Nobody's ever gotten respect by being a coward. Of course I'm not going to be a prideful idiot and try to train them all. Ill post some pics, If i cant tell you why I cant say no, Ill show you!  Most of them are total sweethearts!


Pride goeth before a fall. 
(um, maybe Shakespeare, but, probably Anonymous)
We may not know THESE horses, but those of us who have experienced many different horses throughout our lifetimes know how horses are, especially those of us who have been kicked in the head, and the hip and broken an arm _(that's just me)_, and others here have been injured worse than I have. Our responses have had your best interest at heart, without any desire to keep you from horse training experiences. I am sorry that you find our advice offensive.
Do as you wish.


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I guess I was a pretty 'canny' child - because once I could do something with a horse that classed as training or improving it or making it worth more money I expected to be well paid for the time and trouble!!!


----------



## Canterklutz (Jul 20, 2012)

churumbeque said:


> I thought the same and checked into it. Your insurance covers anything that someone else won't cover. So they might try and get her to pay but if not your insurance would kick in as a back up.


They don't. It is coded a different way when it is billed. Once the insurance company learns there is 3rd party liability they will go after that person's insurance. This is why litigation occurs. My insurance company reassured me that they would kick in as backup when my accident first occurred and they ended up refusing to cover anything which is why I was forced to pursue litigation. 



churumbeque said:


> Many people killed in freak accidents on safe horses. It doesn't sound to me that she is risking her life on a dangerous animal.


Horses are dangerous animals regardless of how safe you believe them to be. There are some things you just can't control. The situation the OP describes is rife with many risk factors that jeopardize her safety. As I stated in my previous post, you take the risk of potentially losing your life whenever driving a car as you cannot control all factors but it does not mean that enforcing wearing a seat belt is meaningless. 



Corporal said:


> Pride goeth before a fall.
> (um, maybe Shakespeare, but, probably Anonymous)
> We may not know THESE horses, but those of us who have experienced many different horses throughout our lifetimes know how horses are, especially those of us who have been kicked in the head, and the hip and broken an arm _(that's just me)_, and others here have been injured worse than I have. Our responses have had your best interest at heart, without any desire to keep you from horse training experiences. I am sorry that you find our advice offensive.
> Do as you wish.


I did a lot of risky things with horses and things in general as a kid and never suffered anything major. It only took 2 seconds to have a sudden brush with death. I am currently struggling with the aftermath of a horse related accident that resulted in a traumatic brain injury. It left me disfigured, disabled, and fighting with insurance companies over medical bills that have climbed into the 6 figures and continue to mount. When I warn others of safety issues it is because I don't want them to suffer what I am suffering and to consider factors that minimize risk. 

Then again it only seems the OP started this thread for the LOLz so I don't know if any of it even matters.


----------



## Blue (Sep 4, 2011)

Canter, I'm sorry you had such a horrible accident. It's true, we should ALL exercise whatever safety measures are possible for each situation. Sometimes, though, we just have to make our own decision based on what's "worth it" to us. So much of life it seems is "hoping for the best".

Best wishes to you.


----------



## Kcates11 (Dec 29, 2014)

You guys are all awesome, thank you for your concern. You all have talked me out of the project. I am sorry for any posts that may have offended anyone, or something like that, I'm not very good at conveying my thoughts. God bless! Thank you. I needed to be put back into reality. None of this was a lie, I think I just worded it wrong? Lol I'm sorry about that! I hope you all have wonderful lives.  this is my last post
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

And here I was about to post 'You shall not put the Lord, your God, to the test.'" (Matthew 4:7)


----------



## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

ROFL!!
Kcates11, I am glad to hear that you have reconsidered. Honestly, there are SO MANY people who do not know what they are doing with the horse that they have bought, and could REALLY USE your expertise. 
You don't have to work with more than one horse at a time to make a difference, and you won't have to work hard to find somebody who needs help. =D


----------



## Canterklutz (Jul 20, 2012)

Kcates11 said:


> You guys are all awesome, thank you for your concern. You all have talked me out of the project. I am sorry for any posts that may have offended anyone, or something like that, I'm not very good at conveying my thoughts. God bless! Thank you. I needed to be put back into reality. None of this was a lie, I think I just worded it wrong? Lol I'm sorry about that! I hope you all have wonderful lives.  this is my last post
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You seem very ambitious and goal oriented. I have no doubt that good opportunities will come your way that will be conducive to learning with positive experiences. This one just wasn't one of them. Sometimes you have to further evaluate which ones will provide the most beneficial outcomes. 

Anyways, good luck with your future ventures!


----------

