# Bleach



## IquitosARG10 (Aug 27, 2011)

melmotthecat1 said:


> Can you use bleach in cuts?
> A friend of mines mums horse had a nasty habbit of pawing at wire fences and ripping large chucks of skin off, She used bleach to clean in and it seemed to work.
> 
> A friend of mine also used bleach for rain scald (I think another name for it is rain rot?)
> ...


 
I've never heard of that, but I certainly would never. I would never put anything on my horse that I wouldn't put on myself.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

bleach actually has a wierd reaction with blood that actually neutralizes it's germ killing properties. it will work on fungus type issues but there are way better, less harsh chemicals available.,


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## Patriot (Jan 28, 2012)

Bleach should not be used to treat open wounds, it damages the tissue. Works great for cleaning stuff that doesn't have a pulse. :wink:


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Yes, there are much better things on to use, even off the WalMart shelf.

Bleach not only burns like the dickens but it is caustic and will damage healthy tissue.

Unless there's some serious fungal/bacterial stuff going on in the frog, Absorbine Hooflex Thrush Remedy is an excellent treatment, serves well as preventative maintenance, does not damage healthy tissue, and can be rubbed on the heel bulbs/fetlock joint to help prevent scratches.

Tractor Supply carries it and many local feed and tack shops also carry it.

Hooflex® Thrush Remedy – Hoof Care – Products – Absorbine

A little goes a long way and lasts for several days, even in mud

As far as minor cuts, just grab the Polysporin, Neosporin, Triple Antibiotic, or whatever's in your bathroom cabinet, and apply to the cut after gently cleaning.


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## hoopla (Jan 29, 2012)

No you can't use bleach as a wound cleaner.

It's highly corrosive and impedes healing.

What you can use is a dilution of hydrogen peroxide if you're looking for something that will get rid of anaerobic bacteria.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

hoopla said:


> *It's highly corrosive and impedes healing.*


As does hydrogen peroxide.

Wound Cleaning With Peroxide | eHow.com

You can use it to help initially clean the wound but not beyond that.


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

We used it when I went to school, but it was diluted in water, and was only used for thrush, nothing more....someone did tell me to use bleach on my horse for his rain rot though, no way in hell was I going to do that!


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## melmotthecat1 (Feb 3, 2012)

Yeah I was a little worried when they mentioned for rain rot... but I've heard a few people mention it. 

It's not uncommon for people to suggest it here for thrush and infection in a hoof. 

Yous guys are starting to scare me a little though and I can't sleep :/


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## Patriot (Jan 28, 2012)

Bleach and/or Hydrogen peroxide - I'd find something else that's not going to do damage to tissue. My vet is pretty old school (that's why I love her) she starts with inexpensive treatments if the problem is serious. She once recommended that I use H-Peroxide on one of my horses, currently have a old guy moments and can't remember what we were treating though.  Anyway...anybody remember the slang term "peroxide blonde" - my horse ended up to two spots on his shoulder that was significantly lighter than the rest of his carcass. Another issue with H peroxide, it's light sensitive, that's why it comes in a brown bottle. If you use it from the bottle you're good, if you store it in another (clear) type bottle it will loose it's effectiveness. Third point and it was mentioned earlier, it does retard healing.

There are so many other treatments for thrush rain rot. (my farrier recommended "thrush buster") 

Best of luck


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## Fargosgirl (Jan 12, 2012)

I worked for a vet and there were a few skin conditions and even wounds that he would use diluted bleach on. I'm not sure of the whys and what-for's but he did occasionally use bleach. He also said that Vetericin Solution is nothing more than watered down bleach, and if you've ever smelled the stuff it sure as heck smells like weak bleach. 
Also a friend of mine, her husband, a diabetic, got gangrene in one of his feet,the doctors were talking amputation but, a nurse told her to soak the foot in a 15% bleach 85% water solution. She did it and he kept his foot. May have been coincidence but it didn't kill him either.
I'm no doctor, but my guess as to why one might use bleach is that the use of a mild caustic slows healing, and promotes healing from the inside out preventing proud flesh. As I said, I'm no doctor, and I'm just relating things I've heard, not hard science.


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## hoopla (Jan 29, 2012)

Please note that hydrogen peroxide is NOT bleach. 

When I suggested it could be used, I wasn't guessing or providing information that was wrong.... I don't do that... EVER. 

The reason why hydrogen peroxide works well on anaerobic bacteria at a 3% dilution is that it's a bio-oxidative. That means it adds oxygen. It rapidly aerates (fizzes) and so in addition to adding oxygen which in itself means that anaerobic bacteria cannot survive, it can help to dispel any bacteria and dirt. It has a broad spectrum of activity against bacteria, with greater effect on Gram positive species than Gram negatives.

This can be particularly helpful for the likes of doing the initial cleaning and treating of a wound to the foot or for helping to prevent the likes of thrush from becoming very invasive. 

In common with any treatment it needs to be used in the right circumstances and appropriately.

Personally speaking I'd say never less than 3% and never more than 10%. So not a strong solution. That will impede generation of new tissue. (though in some cases that might be required... e.g. if there's a reason to keep the wound open .... though that should always be under veterinary supervision) 

Not aged product - it does rapidly degrade

*NOT *on Dermatophilus congolensis (rain scald). Indeed it is most definitely contraindicated for that. 



mls said:


> As does hydrogen peroxide.
> 
> Wound Cleaning With Peroxide | eHow.com
> 
> You can use it to help initially clean the wound but not beyond that.


That clearly needs to be better understood in context. Though personally I prefer to rely on qualitative information. There's plenty available. The article you linked to is merely speculative and dumbed down. Though there's referenced links they either don't work at all or else they're not to clinical trials.

Though of interest is the fact that one of the links in turn referred to a clinical trial and within the body of that is something quite different to the summary headline of the e-how "conclusion"

"Hydrogen peroxide was the second most popular wound
cleanser used by athletic trainers. When applied to the wound,
it interacts with the enzyme catalase, which is found in tissue
and blood, to release oxygen bubbles. This effect is advantageous,
because it helps kill bacteria and can be used to
cleanse infected areas. Hydrogen peroxide has considerable
drawbacks, however, when it is used to cleanse and disinfect a
wound. Tatnall demonstrated that an increased exposure of
human keratinocytes to hydrogen peroxide was toxic to these cells."


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## hoopla (Jan 29, 2012)

Fargosgirl said:


> I worked for a vet and there were a few skin conditions and even wounds that he would use diluted bleach on. I'm not sure of the whys and what-for's but he did occasionally use bleach. He also said that Vetericin Solution is nothing more than watered down bleach, and if you've ever smelled the stuff it sure as heck smells like weak bleach.


Vetericyn is NOT watered down bleach! It's Electrolyzed Water (H2OSodium Chloride (NaCISodium Hypochlorite (NaOCI& Hypochlorous Acid (HOCI)(0.003%). 

Vetericyn also aerates and so produces that oxygination I mentioned earlier.

Bleach is a dilution of sodium hypochlorite which is a constituent product of vetericyn butthe active ingredient is hypchlorus acid and it's stabliled by addition of sodium hypchlorite. But it's forumulated very differently and vetericyn shouldn't ever be interchanged for bleach.


Indeed I'm finding it totally gob-smacking that a vet would use bleach dilution nowadays. 30 years or so ago then I'd understand it but not now.


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## Patriot (Jan 28, 2012)

hoopla - good info.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

hoopla said:


> . The article you linked to is merely speculative and *dumbed down*.


 
You need to speak to the audience in front of you. Basic information is going to be used and retained for this audience more so than hitting them over the head with $5 words.


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## hoopla (Jan 29, 2012)

mls said:


> You need to speak to the audience in front of you. Basic information is going to be used and retained for this audience more so than hitting them over the head with $5 words.


 Oh the irony! I don't even know what the expression £5 words means.

I'm thinking there's a range of people on this forum though and some will get it and some won't. 

Sorry if what I said went over your head. Tell me what you didn't understand and I'll try to express it again more simply.

For the sake of clarity: 
speculative = opinion and contemplation NOT knowledge and fact
dumbed down = an attempt to reach a wider audience by presenting simple statements which often misrepresent a situation


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## Lins (Nov 8, 2011)

Hoopla, that was a good read, thanks for taking the time to thoroughly explain. Very informative.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fargosgirl (Jan 12, 2012)

Quote from Hoopla : "Vetericyn is NOT watered down bleach! It's Electrolyzed Water (H2OSodium Chloride (NaCISodium Hypochlorite (NaOCI& Hypochlorous Acid (HOCI)(0.003%"

*Hoopla, I just looked up all those fancy chemical compounds, I thought you might find the research interesting. *

H20Sodium Chloride = SALT WATER or SALINE SOLUTION

NaClSodium Hypochlorite = _*BLEACH 
*_ *Wikipedia link: *
Sodium hypochlorite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
*Wikipedia Quote:* 
*Sodium hypochlorite* is a chemical compound with the formula NaOCl. Sodium hypochlorite solution, commonly known as bleach or chlorox, is frequently used as a disinfectant or a bleaching agent.

NaOCI& Hypochlorous Acid = ANOTHER BLEACHING AGENT
*Wikipedia link:*
Hypochlorous acid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
*Wikipedia Quote*: (NaClO), or its calcium salt calcium hypochlorite, (Ca(CIO)2) is used as a bleach, a deodorant, and a disinfectant.

I'm sorry but it looks like Vetericyn *IS* watered down bleach. Just they use salt water instead of regular tap water.

I must admit I was feeling bad about making an unsubstantiated claim, and I am glad you posted the ingredient list so I could do the proper homework. 
​


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## hoopla (Jan 29, 2012)

^ You're forming an incorrect conclusion. 

Like I suggested earlier, I prefer to rely on correct information.

Hypochlorous Acid as a Potential Wound Care Agent



> _Hypochlorous acid (HOCl), a major inorganic bactericidal compound of innate immunity, is effective against a broad range of microorganisms. Owing to its chemical nature, HOCl has never been used as a pharmaceutical drug for treating infection. In this article, we describe the chemical production, stabilization, and biological activity of a pharmaceutically useful formulation of HOCl. *Methods:* Stabilized HOCl is in the form of a physiologically balanced solution in 0.9% saline at a pH range of 3.5 to 4.0. Chlorine species distribution in solution is a function of pH. In aqueous solution, HOCl is the predominant species at the pH range of 3 to 6. At pH values less than 3.5, the solution exists as a mixture of chlorine in aqueous phase, chlorine gas, trichloride (Cl3−), and HOCl. At pH greater than 5.5, sodium hypochlorite (NaOCl) starts to form and becomes the predominant species in the alkaline pH. To maintain HOCl solution in a stable form, maximize its antimicrobial activities, and minimize undesirable side products, the pH must be maintained at 3.5 to 5. *Results:* Using this stabilized form of HOCl, the potent antimicrobial activities of HOCl are demonstrated against a wide range of microorganisms. The in vitro cytotoxicity profile in L929 cells and the in vivo safety profile of HOCl in various animal models are described. *Conclusion:* On the basis of the antimicrobial activity and the lack of animal toxicity, it is predicted that stabilized HOCl has potential pharmaceutical applications in the control of soft tissue infection._


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## Patriot (Jan 28, 2012)

Fargosgirl said:


> Your post


What's your point? I don't know hoopla but my gut tells me that he's got a pretty good handle on what he's talking about, for some reason you appear to take offense in what he's saying. The OP asked a question about the use of bleach for wound care not the chemical makeup of Vetericyn.


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