# Horse spooks at everything!



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

The ends of the poles are not scary she looks at them Anne dives around them then takes off.

She needs very form handling with every little thing she does wrong corrected, not harshly but firmly and fairly. 

As for not liking the indoor I would ride her in there until she was fed up with spooking and every place she spooked I would work her hard near it until she stopped spooking at whatever. 

Nothing will work until you decide you have had enough of her nonsense and change how you deal with it,


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

You need to take baby steps and start off with little exercises and work your way up. Part of the issues you're having is her ability to know and sense when she can over power you because you get nervous around her. Until you build that respect and trust, she will not be able to trust that what you are trying to expose her to is safe.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

When the vet checked your mare, did he/she give her a good eye exam?

My IR gelding is starting to lose his peripheral vision in the left eye. I haven't been able to ride him for several years but, he has grown more skittish around the barn since his eye issue, and this has been his home for nine years.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

There are three types of spooky horses:

1)physical causes, such as a magnesium shortage or intolerance to high energy feeds, or eye sight problems
2)spooking because of unfamiliarity, such as a green horse, or new activity and
3) naturally spooky.

You can fix the first two, the last one you never really will. 

Check out the "how to make a fearless trail horse" thread, it's got lots of great tips on exactly how to handle a spooky horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

The horse has learned how to use it or the rider has inadvertently trained the horse to do so. The next time this horse spooks, immediately make her work in tight circles, figure 8's, etc. tight enough to make her uncomfortable. Only when she feels like she'd dragging an anchor do you allow her to straighten out and walk on. It usually takes 3 consecutive bouts before the horse connects her behavior to the hard work. If it takes more, then do more. At no time should you talk to her or pet her when she works as that is rewarding her.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

BlueSpark said:


> There are three types of spooky horses:
> 
> 1)physical causes, such as a magnesium shortage or intolerance to high energy feeds, or eye sight problems
> 2)spooking because of unfamiliarity, such as a green horse, or new activity and
> ...


There is the fourth kind of spooker-the habitual spooker, or a horse that has learned to use spooking to intimidate the rider
You can fix that type, but you have to get after them for spooking,e sin the same corner /place over and over again

To the OP;

I tend to agree with your trainer-your horse has learned to use spooking for her advantage

Here is a video I posted before, going through the different reasons a horse spooks and how to deal with them
Curious-how does she ride for your trainer?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt7QnI0DMM4


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## Chevylover96 (Dec 9, 2012)

I agree with my trainer too! I agree I should be tough on her and make her listen and hopefully she'll stop spooking if it's uncomfortable! 

The video was great! Thank you for that!! 

I have a question. So I've been lunging her the last few days past the scary side, and if she tried to turn around id block her and tap her with the whip to get her to turn back around, then she would bolt by it like usual. So I'd snap on her face and stop her from bolting until she walked or trotted by In a more controlled manner. It's been a couple days, but now instead of bolting she's hesitant to go by, almost like I click and she takes 1 step them stops, over and over again. Will it get better if I continue doing it this way? Am I doing something wrong? 

Thanks


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I would prefer to ride her past that spot, since she is broke. 
Riding, you can use your legs as well as your hands, and with body control, ride her effectively past there.
I would let her rest , next to that scary spot, after working her hard
Are you free lunging her, or using a lunge line?
Since she is broke, thus , i assume, knows how to give to a bit, I would lunge her saddled and bitted up, expecting her to go in frame and at the speed you ask for, versus doing her own thing.


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## Chevylover96 (Dec 9, 2012)

I lunge her with her bridle on, a snap it if she bolts past. Honestly I find it extremely hard to get her up to it when I'm on her, let alone past it. I'm at my wits end with her right now with the spooking. I'm never nervous riding horses, but with her I'm starting to lose my confidence with these shenanigans... 

I currently don't have money for professional training, in a couple months I might and then I'll get it done, but for now I have to do it my self!


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

When lunging or riding you want forward movement, not sideways or the other way. The next time you lunge her at a worrisome spot, don't do it at the canter but keep her to the walk or a relaxed trot. If she bolts, keep her going if you can hold on to her. She has no choice but to circle you and you are getting forward movement. Try to keep your feet planted where they were. At first the bolting and circling is her idea but when she wants to slow, and you don't let her, it's now your idea. You're controlling the game. Keep her walking while she catches her breath and see if she's still as interested in spooking at that spot. The smart horses learn after the first session altho it may take a few. Horses have an innate desire to conserve energy, for that fast getaway from a predator. She will start figuring out that her behavior is what is causing her to work with no reserved energy to call on.


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## Gossalyn (Sep 12, 2013)

question - if your horse spooks.. and you are using 1 rein to correct it.. which rein should you use? i assume the rein on opposite side of what was spooking them?


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

The one rein stop prevents a horse from bolting after a spook, but to effectively ride a horse past something spooky, you need body control, esp shoulder control
If you are riding by a corner, where you know your horse is going to spook, you need have your inside leg holding him, so ribs are towards that spooky place, inside rein up against his neck, to keep him from running off at that shoulder, and driving him forward with your outside leg to keep forward.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Does she do that with everyone? Or just you?

Is she genuinely afraid, or faking it?

Is she uncomfortable, or deeply bothered? Does her back tense up and her head raise high? Or is her body relaxed, but she refuses to go there?

If another horse walks there by her side, and closer to the scary end than her, will she go with the other horse? 

If she is genuinely afraid, then forcing her won't help. The force you use will confirm her fear and make her worse. If she is faking it, then I have no advice to offer since I've never owned a horse who did that.

If she'll go there with another horse or with someone else, then she probably is either faking it or it is something you are doing. If she finds it hard to go there with another horse - to go eat some good food there, for example - then she may be genuinely afraid."The impressionability of a horse can be greatly diminished and modified by breaking. Custom establishes mutual confidence between horse and rider. If the animal has not been beaten, or violently forced up to the object of his alarm, and if the presence of his rider reassures him, instead of frightening him, he will soon become steady. It is a sound principle never to flog a horse which is frightened by some external object. We should, on the contrary, try to anticipate or remove the impression by "making much" of the animal.

I have already said that a horse has but little intelligence. He cannot reason, and has only memory. If he is beaten when an object suddenly comes before him and startles him, he will connect in his mind the object and the punishment. If he again sees the same object, he will expect the same punishment, his fear will become increased, and he will naturally try to escape all the more violently....

...My only advice about the management of nervous horses is to give them confidence by "making much of them." If we see in front of us an object which we know our horse will be afraid of, we should not force him to go up to it. Better let him at first go away from it, and then gently induce him to approach it, without bullying him too much. Work him in this way for several days, as long as may be necessary. Never bring him so close up to the object in question that he will escape or spin round ; because in this case we will be obliged to punish him ; not for his fear, but on account of his spinning round, which we should not tolerate at any time. In punishing him, we will confuse in his mind the fear of punishment and the fear caused by the object. In a word, with nervous horses we should use much gentleness, great patience, and no violence." (186) - James Fillis, Breaking and Riding, 1890​Figuring out the type of spook is a critical step before one tries to solve it. Apply the right technique to the wrong reason and you will only make things worse. IMHO. I don't train, compete, teach, etc. Just a backyard rider with backyard horses, none of whom spook to take advantage of me.

You could also try this advice. It has worked very well for me:








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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

My experience has been that I get best results by using a loose rein, and letting the horse work out for itself how to get past the scary spot. If room permits, and he wants to stay 50 feet away, then we ride by on loose reins 50 feet away. Or 60. Do it 2-3 times, then continue the ride elsewhere. Before long, we can ride on a slack rein closer, and eventually ride by without a look.

From the ground, I'll approach while staying between the horse and the scary thing - and keeping slack in the line. Always. We may only take 1 step a minute. Each step the horse makes, by his own decision, brings us 6" closer. If the horse starts getting really concerned, we just stop. Wait a minute, then back away 10-15 feet. Then go 5 feet closer - but still further away than his closest approach - and then I ask him to leave the area. I don't push him up to it or push him at all. I calm him past it.

Since I'm not confronting my horse, I don't need superb body control. We're doing it on slack reins, mostly off of leg, and by waiting or keeping a distance the horse can accept. Eventually, the horse will learn that the rider knows what is worth being scared about and what is not, and then the horse will turn that responsibility over to the rider.

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-tra...-training-good-bad-606090/page10/#post7940481

http://www.horseforum.com/member-jo...al-name-bandit-mias-581034/page2/#post7531554

BTW - when my horse's spook, they make themselves uncomfortable. I don't need to add to the discomfort.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Since this is new behavior, in a horse, after time off, I am leaning towards the horse having learned to becoming a habitual spooker, esp since the trainer also sees that possibility
Have asked the Op as to how that horse rides with the trainer, but have not had an answer yet
The OP is just lunging the horse, being intimidated to ride, and horses do pick up on that fact

Charlie was a lot like that. As a green horse, I gave her the benefit of the doubt, just making no big deal of it.
When she started to look at things to spook at, and way over react, I started to get after her, and she now seldom spooks, and if she does, she controls the degree of that reaction
I agree you have to know your horse, figure out as to why they are spooking, and then taylor your approach accordingly.
Snow sliding off of the arena roof, where I ride at times in the winter, had her really reacting each and every time, until I decided enough was enough, and actually had to control my own reaction to that sudden sound of sliding snow, as she became better at it than I!
Also, even in a true fear spook, as in something suddenly popping out of the bush, ect the spook itself is prefectly logical and acceptable, but trying to whirl or bolt is not


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"I agree you have to know your horse, figure out as to why they are spooking, and then tailor your approach accordingly."

This. 

When I read this in the first post: "She's always been spooky...but recently she has over 6 months off work except the occasional ride, and she's come back a lot worse", it sounded to me like there might be a genuine fear issue or might be a nervous type of horse. At least enough of a possibility to consider. 

Where I come from, most trainers seem to be of the "push them past it" mentality...and I've watched professional trainers act really stupid around horses! 

I just want to provide another option. Without watching the horse and seeing what is happening, I have no clue what is really needed. I don't want the OP or lurkers who read these threads to be given only one technique. Heck, she could try a little of both approaches on different days and see how her horse responds.

"_Also, even in a true fear spook, as in something suddenly popping out of the bush, ect the spook itself is prefectly logical and acceptable, but trying to whirl or bolt is not_"

From James Fillis, 125 years ago: "_Never bring him so close up to the object in question that he will escape or spin round ; because in this case we will be obliged to punish him ; not for his fear, but on account of his spinning round, which we should not tolerate at any time. In punishing him, we will confuse in his mind the fear of punishment and the fear caused by the object._"

It becomes one of those "_Trampas, I shouldn't have entered the saloon_" moments. And yes, they happen sometimes no matter how hard on tries to avoid them. Been there, done that, may do it again today when I ride for all I know. But on the whole, I want to minimize my need to be harsh with the horse, particularly when fear or a nervous temperament is involved. Those moments happen, but are steps backward with that type of horse.


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## Chevylover96 (Dec 9, 2012)

I'm not sure if she'd be spooky with everyone as nobody else rides her. I can ask my cousin if she can ride her and see. My trainer is currently injured and can't ride for a little while. Winter just got a massage yesterday and can't be ridden for 3 days.


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## Chevylover96 (Dec 9, 2012)

I have the feeling it's a learned behaviour, and she just needs to learn to respect me and stop taking advantage, but at the same time I don't want to force her to do it if she's genuinely scared. 

She will however go to the "scary end" to eat hay and will go by if her buddy is there closer to the scary end than she is.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

My feeling is that if a horse can go there to eat, or go there with a friend, it isn't very scared. That sounds to me more like, "I don't feel like it so I'll act up".

I personally like to avoid the word "respect" and just say, "I need to train my horse to do X". But that has been discussed ad nauseum on the Passive Leadership Horse Training thread linked to in post 15...no right or wrong answer, just what one prefers.

If it is a case where the horse just doesn't feel like it...then I'm in favor of making the alternatives unattractive. The way I figure it, if it isn't a fear issue, "*You eat my hay, you go my way*!"


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I do think the horse has your number.
Words, like respect are just that, open to different interpretations, thus capable of having a negative connotation to some, while just explaining an principle of application to others.
That is also why the dictionary often gives several definitions for the same word.
Whether a horse can truly respect a person, in the human definition of that word, applied to another human being, is not clear. I mean, a horse is not going to respect you for some abstract things, like moral beliefs,altruistic acts of charity, etc, but he can respect you tot he point that he does not invade your space, walking over you, or trying to run over you, does not offer to kick and bite you, does not question you as to where he will or will not ride, either led or ridden. Along with that horse connected connotation of respect, comes trust
I know what I mean by that word, and so do hundreds of other good horse people, so if anyone wants to split hairs, and find a word more suitable, they are welcome
Far as never getting a horse so close that he will try to bolt or spin, not really possible in all situations, as when I'm riding down a trail, trees on both side, I;m as surprised as my horse, if a deer suddenly jumps out, or a grouse suddenly flies up. As a human, my brain quickly says 'deer, grouse, ect, thus no danger'
My horse is hardwired to 'get out of Dodge first, then assess. What is expected through training, is that the horse learns to trust your assessment, thus shuts down that spin or bolt reaction
THat is what earning a horse's trust is all about, so that the horse learns to trust that you are the leader that can assure him there is no need to try and bolt or spin, as you have evaluated that object for him
Make sure that who ever you get to ride your horse, is a confident experienced rider. Your own body language is going to influence you horse.
If you tense up, approaching the trouble spot, the horse has no way of knowing that you are tense, fearing his reaction, but only thinks, 'my leader is also frightened, thus that object /spot really is a potential danger

I will give you a good example , I once read, in a horse mag.
One particular horse in a riding string was considered bad in traffic, spooking at cars, ect. So, each time a group went out, the owner was sure to ask for level of experience anyone riding that horse had, plus warn them of his problem
One day, in his absence, a new assistant got the horses ready, and he had forgotten to tell him to warn the rider of that horse 
He went home, fearful of what might have happened. All the horses were back and things looked fine, He asked the rider how he dealt with that horse in traffic,and how bad he spooked.
The rider looked puzzled, as the horse never even offered to spook.
Since that rider had not been warned, he did not tense when cars approached, and the horse in turn remained calm


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Here is an example from today:

Bandit, like all my horses, dislikes garbage cans. He can go past 20 without a thought, but something about #21 will make it difficult. Maybe it is the smell of something inside. 

Today, someone rolled their trashcan out, making a noise all my horses hate. They've heard it hundreds of times before in their corrals. Heck, I keep a garbage can next to the corral - but they've been known to bolt inside their corral at the sound. I have no idea why. And they've heard it HUNDREDS of times. 

All Bandit could see was some movement of a trash can behind some shrubs. He stopped, braced his back, and his neck went vertical. He squirted some poop on the road. Not apples. Cow pies. Horses who squirt poop out are probably genuinely afraid.

I waited. He tried to turn around. Nope. Wrong answer. We're not going to spin. Period. Not allowed. Facing the scary spot, he took one step forward. I waited.

It took about 5 minutes to go 100 yards. With a better view of the can, and a chance to assess, he snorted and we moved on. I took him around the block, passing many trashcans without incident. We got home, and I wouldn't let him call it a day.

He was unhappy. So what! I decide the end of the ride. Not my horse. If that is being dominant, so be it. We moved up the street. As we got closer to the scary spot, he got very balky. Not sure how to describe it. He wasn't terrified, but he was...worried? So push him on...except this seemed different.

I stopped him. About 20 seconds later, I heard a hum. An air conditioner? No.

The hum got louder, then a black cloud moved in front of us, about 4' above the road. A swarm of migrating bees. LOTS of them. If we hadn't stopped, we would have been in the middle of them. Good Bandit!

Once they passed by, we moved forward again. A hundred yards later, he balked. Hmm. Waited - and the bees had doubled back. The swarm went by us. 

I decided to retreat. Or as we would say in the military, I made a timely decision to redeploy forces to a more advantageous position. But it did involve turning around and walking away. Not running. Not trotting. We're WALKING, blast it!

I took him to another section of the neighborhood, and we went by dozens of trash cans. He doesn't like them. None of my horses do. But we went past them all without slowing.

It was a mix today, but I'm happy with my reading of my horse. When he was pooping-scared, we worked our way along and he found out his rider was right - it didn't eat him! And we did NOT spin, turn, run away, etc. "No" was not an acceptable answer, but neither did I insist on an instant "Yes".

We went by lots of those nasty trash cans. When he wanted to call it quits, we didn't. We'll go home when I want to go home, and not sooner. Does that mean I was being "alpha"?

But when something seemed odd, we stopped...and Bandit was right. He had a good reason to be concerned, and we made the right decision together - his ears, my mind. He's a lot calmer than in July. He hasn't really tried to spin around since late June. He can still get very concerned, but he's calming down quick. If I ask him to walk away, we walk.

"I;m as surprised as my horse, if a deer suddenly jumps out, or a grouse suddenly flies up"

Yes. Those will always happen. There are at least two ways I can get him to go where I want and not run away:

1 - He can be more afraid of me than the scary thing, or

2 - He can learn, through experience, I know what I'm doing.

Both can work. The US Cavalry used the first method. It WILL get the horse forward, and the horse may eventually learn to move willingly. But either way, it will move.

The second is how I like to work. I may have 20 more years of riding Bandit. But he has also shown me he is good at detecting javelina, coyotes and bees that I wasn't aware of, so respecting his senses makes sense, so to speak. We need to learn to work together and to trust each other. I can't expect it to happen in a day or a week. I need to earn his trust. Not from round pen work. Not from jogging around an arena. We need to go out "alone together" and have him learn I deserve his trust. And vice-versa. Trust must be earned, not assumed.

And there are some boundaries. We do NOT spin! We do NOT run away! We do not rear, jump sideways or get ****y! Been there, done that, don't want to ever do it again! Fear is understood. Complaining about not being happy is NOT understood. Carefully forward is OK. Not going forward is not.

But within those boundaries, there is room for mutual respect.

To my way of thinking, a horse who can eat in one end of the arena, but not walk there, is not a scared horse. It is a refusing horse, trying to take charge. When the horse takes charge, there is no mutual respect. I don't want to browbeat my horse, but I don't plan on being intimidated by him either.

In the end, you need to read the horse. You may make mistakes in doing that. Mistakes are part of learning. Learn, and then move on. If the horse just doesn't LIKE going to one end of the arena, so what? That isn't his decision to make. If he can eat there, he can walk there. IMHO.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

looks like you and Bandit are coming along fine!
Certainly, # 2 is the choice one works towards, as I already mentioned-having the horse learn to trust your judgement
However, it is not all black and white, far as how you get there. Yes, there are times you can wait the horse out, allow him to find out himself that something is not scary, and there is also a time to ride him through stuff, not by beating him, spurring him, but through body control
Again, judgement is called for, far as when you use one over the other. Both will help reach that end goal where the horse simply trusts you, and dampens all flight reaction
For instance, there is a time one can use the gradual approach, as you did with those garbage cans, and there are times you have to have some 'automatic buttons;, for lack of a better word, so you can ride the horse through something, using familiar cues that get his mind back on you
For instance, climbing a steep trail with a drop off, stalling out, loss of momentum, can spell disaster. The horse has to keep digging in, climbing past what looks like a 'bear rock' on the tree side of that climb, with a drop off on the opposite side. In that case, I can slightly counter flex my horse away from the drop off, thus shoulder towards bear rock, keep forward momentum and be past that rock before my horse even realizes it, without him spooking over the edge, or stalling out and sliding backwards.
My horses work for me out of trust, and anyone who knows me,and my horses, would laugh if the suggestion was given, that they worked for me out of fear
Certainly, when I asked Einstein to charge that bull moose in a bluff, he did so out of trust, not fear. I wore neither spurs, nor carried a crop.
In fact, he 'asked me', as to what we should do. We came across that bull moose in rut time, standing against the fenceline, of the road we were riding home on. Moose being stupid, anything looks good in rut time!
I knew to try and race past, might have that moose charge us. Einstein stopped, looked at the moose, then turned his head back towards me, as if to ask,'now what'
I took the coat I had tied on my saddle, waved it in the air, and asked Einstein to charged that moose. He did so, because he trusted me
Horses are also creatures of habit. Ride them positively by stuff, giving the horse confidence and that will also result in that horse learning to trust you, when you tell him something is of no concern
There are times to let the horse figure it out, but there are also times to tell the horse that you already have it figured out!


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"However, it is not all black and white, far as how you get there. Yes, there are times you can wait the horse out, allow him to find out himself that something is not scary, and there is also a time to ride him through stuff, not by beating him, spurring him, but through body control

Again, judgement is called for..."

I agree. Bandit is better in the natural world than in the neighborhood. I think he has quite a few miles going thru open country, but man-made stuff is tough for him. Still, it gives me a chance to work on these sorts of issues where the roads are 60 feet wide instead of a 6' wide path surrounded by cactus.

I became a very defensive rider with Mia, so I also need to learn a better way of riding. Bandit has the makings of a good horse. Trust needs to go both ways, and we're both learning about each other. We've got time. He's only 7.

But there are times I need for him to puzzle it out with my support, and times to push him on and tell him to get with the program. And I don't know of any way to learn which is which except to mount up, try, and learn when (not if) I make mistakes. Sure glad I listened to him when he heard the bees, though...:eek_color:


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

A note to add to what Smilie has said. When you approach the spot, don't look at it, it doesn't exist. Look straight ahead as that keeps your shoulder's and hips square and that tells the horse where you are going. Obviously there's a wall so when back a few strides, change your focus to next wall. Don't look at the ground, a common riding mistake. Think of it as picking out a spot to come off. You want to keep your chin level. Deep breaths if needed.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

good thing swarming bees are not very aggressive!
Don't know if you read my post awhile ago, where I almost accidentally jeopardized Charlie's trust!
I was riding back to the barn, passing some trees that are at the top of that drive to the back yard,w hen she suddenly acted spooky.
Since she used to be a very reactive horse, I thought she was just having a ;deja vue' moment, told her she lives here for heavens sake, and to smarten up
As we rode forward, I noticed a whirling cloud of bees! Luckily we did not get stung.
I told hubby about them, and he went out and got this picture. They had settled down for a rest, making a hive joint decision?
Anyway, we went to town, and when we got back, they had moved on




You are right to try and never betray that trust, once earned, as it is very difficult to get back! It would have been a disaster with Charlie, as it has taken me almost two years to get her total trust back in 'heavy traffic'
When a horse trusts you that nothing bad is going to happen, as they go where you guide them, in a crowded arena, then get run into, it takes time for them to not feel they have to be in self preservation mode, when horses come up on them!
I know I posted on this before, but when Charlie was still pretty green, I was loping her a little ways off the rail, in a crowded area warm up. Suddenly, the rider ahead of me, lost control of her horse, who suddenly balked,, then ran backwards, slamming into Charlie' s flank, with the rider accidently hooking her with her spurs-enough to draw blood.
Glad those bees were tolerant!


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

My heart horse used to be very spooky, and I think this is a possible test for whether the horse is spooking out of fear or spooking out of misbehavior. If your horse spooks out in the pasture, or being led somewhere where they want to go, then I think they are just always going to be kind of jumpy. My heart horse has been known to leap away while being fed slices of watermelon because a gopher rat scooted behind him. I have seen him spook while trailing quietly up the pasture hill to get supper. He spooks at times while being led from the gate to the tackroom. Happily for me, he has learned to control his spooks while being ridden, so he doesn't spin, bolt, or rear under saddle. But he can do BIG spooks when he is by himself. So, in my opinion, he is just going to be a reactive horse. . . and I can deal with it.


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