# APHA mare!



## paintgirl96 (Oct 6, 2012)

"Lindas Yucon Lady" aka Dreamer is a 1992 model APHA mare. She is registered as a bay tobiano. Sire was "Yukon Son" a solid black according to papers, dam was "White Surprise" a solid cremello according to papers. As you would think, both parents are deceased and I don't know the original breeder of the mare. She is a more "minimal tobiano" and is mostly white, and also has a blue eye. My question is, is she truly a bay, or is she brown? 
Full pedigree: Lindas Yucon Lady Quarter Horse


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

I'm seeing more brown with the lighter/ cinnamon muzzle. You can have her tested through PetDNA, but I've recently heard that the brown agouti test isn't 100% reliable as it has been saying brown on horses that are known not to carry brown.


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## Pyrros (Feb 10, 2012)

Well, if her dam was cremello she couldn't be bay or brown. She'd have to be a cream dilute of some sort, buckskin, palomino, smokey black, smokey brown/brownskin. She doesn't look to be any of those, and looking at her pedigree I'm betting her dam was miss-registered or miss-placed on allbreed at least because there's no way her dam was a cremello. It says the dam's sire was a black tobiano out of a black tobi mare by a sorrel stud. Doesn't say the grand dam's color but her sire was sorrel. To get a cremello you have to have 2 copies of the cream gene, each parent can only pass on one. 

At any rate since we're currently at 'who knows what color the dam was' that kinda leaves that side up in the air. If both parents were registered 'solid' either way then it's entirely possible that one or both were very minimal tobianos that were registered solid. Also possible another stud jumped the fence, who knows.

The mare by appears to be brown, to me. 

Side note, minimal tobiano means less white. She's pretty much just a normal tobiano.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

I am not a color expert but I would say brown. I also wonder on that allbreed pedigree because it list her as quarter horse . She is a cute mare regardless of her lineage.


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## paintgirl96 (Oct 6, 2012)

She's DNA verified on her APHA papers, and I put her on allbreed myself.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

dark bay:? brown ?? depends on what picture ...... Looks like most of pics horse has more winter coat & coat can look darker:wink: I know my Bay Tobi mare gets darker much like that in winter


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## paintgirl96 (Oct 6, 2012)

paintedpastures said:


> dark bay:? brown ?? depends on what picture ...... Looks like most of pics horse has more winter coat & coat can look darker:wink: I know my Bay Tobi mare gets darker much like that in winter


Very true. I have two bay tobiano's, one is a "blood bay" color in the Summer but in Winter she is nearly black in spots.  Just confused as she is by two solid parents, black and cremello, yet she doesn't carry cream and is DNA verified on her papers, so parents and papers match. I saw one of her foals, now a 7 year old mare, whom is a 15.1 hand bay tobiano mare with the same build and basically same pattern as this mare. No idea of sire though lol. I was assuming she was a brown due to the lighter spots and she doesn't have black points at all, either.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

She is a brown, no question on that. Winter coats are when browns cannot hide as bays as they sometimes do. The cinnamon colored soft spots around the muzzle and flanks come out in force with a winter coat and that is brown's trademark. A bay will not get the cinnamon color in winter coats, they stay dark colored. 

As far as the dam being cremello, she was maybe a very light palomino and registered the wrong color or was just registered the wrong color completely and no one ever corrected it. Without a picture of her, we will never know. Cremello horses must have two cream parents (can hide on black horses) and will always produce cream foals, you cannot get non cream foals out of a cremello mare.


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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

Brown for sure. Wouldn't spend the money on the brown test since it's proving to be unreliable. Also she's not a minimal tobiano. That's when the horse has minimal white (rather than color). Kind of like this guy, Tru One Ina Million, he's homozygous for tobiano.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

paintgirl96 said:


> She's DNA verified on her APHA papers, and I put her on allbreed myself.


Then she is a Paint. Her sire is listed as TB and her dam as a Paint with Paint parents. On the third gen bac there are two QH listed. Only if the Paints are double registered would she be a QH (technically Appendix with a TB sire). From the pics she looks brown from the colors listed that is probable.


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## paintgirl96 (Oct 6, 2012)

I never said she wasn't a paint? As for whoever decided to get on allbreed and change her breeding to being a Thoroughbred on top, thanks.. NOT! Her sire is "Yukon Son" a solid black APHA, by PRODIGAL SONNY, out of YUKON ANN, two APHA horses. NOT THOROUGHBRED. 

On her APHA papers, dam is listed as solid white, not cremello.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

It came up as Allbreed had her as a QH...


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

well if she was white then she could have been Dominant white or Maximus tobi and lord knows what her base color was. She could have been black, palomino or Green for all we know XD! this is why color testing is important in breeding stock XD!


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## Tryst (Feb 8, 2012)

Quite a few paints are registered as white because they have such dramatic expression of white paint pattern that it covers whatever the base color is to the degree that you can't see the 'real' color. So the mother wouldn't have really been "solid" but instead most likely carried multiple paint patterns covering her from head to toe.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

NdAppy,, I saw the same thing on the allbreed pedigree . nothing about TB, it was under the mares name, and she was not listed as APHA


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## paintgirl96 (Oct 6, 2012)

Yes, she was put on there, by myself, the owner of this mare, in a hurry directly after we bought her. There are many APHA horses listed as QH's on there. Whoever decided to edit(not blaming anyone on here) put her sire as a Thoroughbred on top, messing her whole pedigree up on allbreed. Her sire is Yukon Son, an AQHA, not a Thoroughbred. There are two stallions under that name and they chose the Thoroughbred, which as you can see, is very wrong. 
Here is a picture of her papers;


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## Tryst (Feb 8, 2012)

nevermind


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

paintgirl96 said:


> "Lindas Yucon Lady" aka Dreamer is a 1992 model APHA mare. She is registered as a bay tobiano. Sire was "Yukon Son" a solid black according to papers, dam was "White Surprise" a solid cremello according to papers. As you would think, both parents are deceased and I don't know the original breeder of the mare. She is a more "minimal tobiano" and is mostly white, and also has a blue eye. My question is, is she truly a bay, or is she brown?
> Full pedigree: Lindas Yucon Lady Quarter Horse
> View attachment 585953
> 
> ...


Since you posted the information on allbreed, can you correct the information about her dam's color? You kept saying the dam was cremello at the beginning of this thread and listed her that way on allbreed. Then you return with information that the dam is actually a maximum white. Maximum white and cremello are not the same nor interchangeable. Cremello is a red based horse (chestnut/sorrel) with two cream genes. A maximum white has so much of one or multiple white pinto genes expressing to the point that the color under the white is unknown. 

And some paints are listed as quarter horses but only correct if they are double registered AQHA and APHA. Any APHA horse that has tobiano or tobiano horses in their lineage cannot be double registered as AQHA as tobiano is not in Quarter horses or thoroughbreds, it came from another origin in the beginning of the APHA registry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Just because the pedigree information was changed doesn't mean that anyone here changed it. It can be changed by anyone, anywhere, at any time. Just like wikipedia.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

Paint girl, from what I understand , since her muzzle is the lighter color, then she is brown.
not bay. You can send hairs in for color dna test and then you would know for sure.


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