# rope halter or chain over the nose?



## mistygirl (May 13, 2010)

My new mare has been doing very well i'm just having diffecultys(sp?) getting her to back up. tapping her with the wip doesn't affect her. i've tried the chain but it makes her more anoyed then just a normal halter. saddly i dont have a small enough rope halter yet and I have lunged her once with a rope halter and she did good. what would you use? is there a certain rope halter that works the best?


also the BO came through the arena to bring the horses in and my mare totally changed. she would not stand and was having a fit that i wouldn't let her go by the BO she would take a step forward to go say hello i would back her up. Is that a sign of the BO giving her treats or is it just from the BO being the person that feeds her? 

She listens to me very well but when the BO came in she totally ignored me. 

She listens to me and sometimes other people but mainly me.


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## mistygirl (May 13, 2010)

I'm also woundering would sounds better and reasonable?

355 board fee plus 200 training with indoor and come in at nights 

OR

150 board plus training with out door arena and roundpen and out side board i'm probally going towards this one.

Do you beleive an indoor is needed for training or its just something nice if you can afford it?


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Having a roof over your head will not affect training in any way other than to shield you from adverse weather conditions.

Changing a headstall, adding a nose chain, using a whip will not magically make a horse back up for you. YOU are the only training tool that is completely necessary.

I hope you have someone to help you.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Amen, Sarah. _ Excellent_ post. :clap:


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## Jacksmama (Jan 27, 2010)

Personally I wouldn't use a chain, a lot of damage/pain can be caused with a chain. I use a training rope halter, it has knots at the poll and the bridge of the nose. It has a bit more "bite" than a regular rope halter but isn't TOO strong. There are a few different ways I've used to teach a horse to back, they all learn differently and it pays to have a few tricks up your sleeve,lol. A) Shake the lead rope while saying "back" and moving toward them confidently;often they are spooked in the beginning by the shaking lead and react by backing up anyway, by doing this you build on their instinctual reaction and associate it with a verbal or hand cue depending on your preference. B)Shake the lead and STOMP toward them while giving verbal cue if they don't respond to A;this almost always works for me. Same premise as A, just gives you a stronger, more dominant body language. C)Shake the lead while slowly swinging a "carrot stick" in front of your body and walking toward them. Mine is about 3.5 to 4 ft long, if they don't back up the stick bumps them in the chest and shoulder and they tend to not like it. I have seen another method(not crazy about it, to me it seems like it would make them headshy). Use the carrot stick to hit the lead rope/clasp just below where it clips onto the halter. The noise and swinging the stick at their head definitely gets them to move, but as I said I just don't like this method. 

The BO doesn't necessarily have to be feeding treats for your horse to like her, maybe it's because shes the main one to feed or she scratches just the right spot. 

As far as the arena I would say it's more preference than anything. Personally an indoor would be nice if only because the weather here in Indy is rather unpleasant in the winter.


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## Paint Mom (Jun 28, 2010)

I find a rope halter works well for a horse that wont respond as well or promptly. Nylon halters tend to give the horse something to lean on. 

I prefer outdoor arenas because the horse sees more than just walls everyday! At least when there working in an outdoor they get exposed to more - rain, wind, people, noises, etc....


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## G and K's Mom (Jan 11, 2008)

> also the BO came through the arena to bring the horses in and my mare totally changed. she would not stand and was having a fit that i wouldn't let her go by the BO she would take a step forward to go say hello i would back her up. Is that a sign of the BO giving her treats or is it just from the BO being the person that feeds her?


Horse's are most comfortable with the person THEY feel is their leader. It looks like your horse has made her choice.......you may be the owner but by putting a chain on a horse just to teach it to back up you've shown her your not much of a leader.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

sarahver said:


> Having a roof over your head will not affect training in any way other than to shield you from adverse weather conditions.
> 
> Changing a headstall, adding a nose chain, using a whip will not magically make a horse back up for you. YOU are the only training tool that is completely necessary.
> 
> I hope you have someone to help you.


Sarah-I agree, EXCEPT that in Wisconsin, where OP is, this time of year, indoor offers consistent training, since it is not weather dependent. Does the indoor place have nowhere to work outside on nice days? If it does, I would go with that. Otherwise you are spending your training $$ for training that may not happen if it rains, snows, mud, ice, etc.

Misty-is this the same mare you have been having issues with? 
If it is, this mare has been an issue and will continue to be until you learn how to listen to people, get a trainer and put on your big girl panties and become her leader. A rope halter is best, IMO. Chains are not, but neither will help you if you if you don't know how to use them. Think of it sort of like a bit. Stronger is not the answer. The hands that use it are.:wink:


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

^^Nope, she got rid of that mare and traded it for a new one. This one.:shock:

Noted on the roof situation. Still I think there may be bigger issues than civil engineering may be able to solve. :wink:


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Oh dear. Agreed Sarah!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mistygirl (May 13, 2010)

thanks for the comments!!!!


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## mistygirl (May 13, 2010)

and yes i can work outside if i want but theres to much mud and snow right now.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

See-if you had an indoor.....;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

sarahver said:


> Having a roof over your head will not affect training in any way other than to shield you from adverse weather conditions.
> 
> Changing a headstall, adding a nose chain, using a whip will not magically make a horse back up for you. YOU are the only training tool that is completely necessary.
> 
> I hope you have someone to help you.


cheers!


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## mistygirl (May 13, 2010)

wow you guys worship each other to much lol

i'm thinking i'm keeping her at the place with the arena because she doesn't want to loose me as a worker she made me a deal to make it affordable for me and its still reasonable for her. so yeah


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Misty, I knew it was a mistake for you to get a young, green horse after all your problems with Misty. I know it's not what you want to hear, and you have proven yourself very stubborn, but this is not the right horse for you.

What is it natisha said? "second verse, same as the first".


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

You know Misty, after the long thread about your previous horse, I swore I would not post anything on your threads as I knew it probably wouldn’t be overly constructive. But when I saw this thread with talk of putting a chain on your new horse’s nose because she wouldn’t back up for you, I found the notion abhorrent. To be honest, I was thinking of the well being of your horse which compelled me to respond.


There are so many things wrong with that scenario, I couldn't even begin to list. Suffice to say, your horse (or any horse) will back up for you with a headstall, with a piece of string, without a headstall, in an arena, in the pasture, beside a road, in a stall, with other horses around or completely alone, WHEN she looks at you as her leader and respects you as such. Until that time you can use all manner of gadgets of varying levels of harshness but the underlying issue will not be solved and will simply resurface, perhaps in the same way, perhaps with a new behavior. You saw the results of that with Misty, don’t make the same mistake with your new horse. If you have someone knowledgeable that can coach you so that you are able to elicit the desired response in your horse without the use of force, both you and your horse will be better off, hence my comment.


My last piece of advice is to get someone working with you so that you can begin to understand how to _truly_ train a horse, no gimmicks, no gadgets, just clear communication and consistent reinforcement, that advice is genuine and well meaning. I wish you and your new horse well and I will go back to not commenting on your threads.


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## UWLEquestrian (Jan 17, 2011)

Could you ask your trainer what to do in this situation?
Also, I wouldn't recommend you use a chain. First of all, I don't think Destiny needs it. Secondly, I think you will just make the situation ten times worse and confuse her.


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## UWLEquestrian (Jan 17, 2011)

equiniphile said:


> Misty, I knew it was a mistake for you to get a young, green horse after all your problems with Misty. I know it's not what you want to hear, and you have proven yourself very stubborn, but this is not the right horse for you.
> 
> What is it natisha said? "second verse, same as the first".


I couldn't agree more. I also worry about Misty's future because the new horse knows so little. How can someone that didn't even touch their horse to back up or pick up its feet be capable of handling a horse with dangerous behavioral problems?


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

UWLEquestrian said:


> I couldn't agree more. I also worry about Misty's future because the new horse knows so little. How can someone that didn't even touch their horse to back up or pick up its feet be capable of handling a horse with dangerous behavioral problems?


The person who should have been worried about Misty wasn't & isn't. Maybe Misty will like the new people & she'll be fine. 
You put a good foundation on her.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

mistygirl said:


> wow you guys worship each other to much lol
> 
> i'm thinking i'm keeping her at the place with the arena because she doesn't want to loose me as a worker she made me a deal to make it affordable for me and its still reasonable for her. so yeah


 deals....again.
You said you can't get the horse to back up but then you back her up when she tries to go to the BO. Which is it?
Do you not see a pattern here?


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## mistygirl (May 13, 2010)

Each horse is different i just wanted to know what peoples opinions were about chains and rope halters. I'm not a big fan of chains eather, but I also wanted to know what kind of rope halters are out there I've only seen the ones with rawhide over the nose and the double knot or single knot ones. I like looking at all my options and seeing what works best. I have only used the single knot rope halters.

Also I may ask for different options but look more into the rope halter. As I said before I am not a big fan of chains. I gave it a try and didn't totally like it. 

Every owner and horse are different. Every horse is different with every human and every human is different with every horse. There is always different options and differnt opinion. Ever owner has to find what works for the horse and thereselves.

I have only owned her for a month.

Her update:

I have had destiny for a month now. when I first got her she was fresh knew how to lead and only knew what a halter was because it was never taken off at her old place. When I got her I did lung her first and she did great I didn't worry about what gait she was doing right away because I knew she wouldn't understand what I was asking her. I steped in front of her and said whoa for the first time and she stoped. She was smart enough to understand what I was saying. She might not of understood but she was rewarded for doing as she was told even if she did guess.

I knew her feet needed to be trimed so I worked on her feet. I first tried having my mom hold her while I get her used to thing around her legs. That didn't work so I just held the end of the lead rope while getting her used to me being by her sholder and rubing around her leg. I do a lot of take and give. My goal is to once she stops moving I stop.

I started just doing her front feet for a few days just to take thing slow and make sure she understood what I was asking her. 

After a few days of her standing on her own and letting me pick up her front feet I would start petting her to move towards her back feet. I took everything slow and made sure she knew what I was doing. She was of course nervious and scarred but I took my time and made sure I ended on a good note. 

A few days of repeatly working on all her feet now she lets me pick up her feet. 

after Being able to pick up all 4 feet I started working on ground tieing her so I could start to walk completely walk around her and do all her feet in order.(font,back,back,front) So I would just drop the rope and make her stand. I would tell her nice and firm to stand and watch her stand. she took one step forward I would make her take that one step back and tell her to stand again. after being very picky with her now I can walk around her with out holding her. She stand where ever I drop the rope. 

Now on a daily basis I work on standing her feet and am now starting to be picky with lunging. at this moment for switching directions i make her come in to me and send her the other direction. I also have started working on her leading next to me. She is a very smart cookie a few times of correction she finally understands and tries to please. It took her a little bit of telling her to trot on lead line but she now does it with no problem. still working on stoping at trot but of coarse that takes more thinking then stoping at a walk.

Enjoy!


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## mistygirl (May 13, 2010)

More update:

Destiny is very good at lunging and starting to understand what I am asking of her. she walks and trots on lung line and stops at walk and trot while lunging. I don't think she understands the words yet but she is understanding my body language.

PS to Natisha- I can will her out of my space!

Of course she still gets confused one in a while but thats ok, no one is perfect. We work together and I keep telling her what I'm asking her to do. She usally understands when i step a little infont of her drive, that i'm asking her to walk. sometimes shes full of energy and doesn't listen right away but I don't give up. Once she does do it right I praise her. She loves to be praised It makes her want to please more. She has a wounderful pleasing attitude.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

mistygirl said:


> Each horse is different i just wanted to know what peoples opinions were about chains and rope halters. I'm not a big fan of chains eather, but I also wanted to know what kind of rope halters are out there I've only seen the ones with rawhide over the nose and the double knot or single knot ones. I like looking at all my options and seeing what works best. I have only used the single knot rope halters.


I am fine with chains, especially with horses you don't know, and stallions in public shows where you never know what might happen. What I am not okay with is using chains as a means to force a young horse to do something, when the end result with a plain halter will be much greater.



mistygirl said:


> Also I may ask for different options but look more into the rope halter. As I said before I am not a big fan of chains. I gave it a try and didn't totally like it.


A rope halter is a good idea. The pressure is much more direct and easier to understand in a rope halter than a nylon or leather one. Go for the simplest you can find. I make them myself, and mine do not have any knots over the nose, just two plain strands of rope. I attached a picture.



mistygirl said:


> Every owner and horse are different. Every horse is different with every human and every human is different with every horse. There is always different options and differnt opinion. Ever owner has to find what works for the horse and thereselves.


Yes, but we worry that you had such problems with Misty, and then proceeded to get another green horse. Some horse-owner combinations just do not work, and this is one of them....again.



mistygirl said:


> I have only owned her for a month.
> 
> Her update:
> 
> ...


I thought this horse doesn't back, hence why you want to use a chain?


mistygirl said:


> after being very picky with her now I can walk around her with out holding her. She stand where ever I drop the rope.
> 
> Now on a daily basis I work on standing her feet and am now starting to be picky with lunging. at this moment for switching directions i make her come in to me and send her the other direction. I also have started working on her leading next to me. She is a very smart cookie a few times of correction she finally understands and tries to please. It took her a little bit of telling her to trot on lead line but she now does it with no problem. still working on stoping at trot but of coarse that takes more thinking then stoping at a walk.
> 
> Enjoy!


Here is the type of halter I would reccomend.


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## mistygirl (May 13, 2010)

Yeah thats the kind I have but the one i have is too big. My horse has a very small head. I have normal size break away halter and a normal size rope halter. the rope halter i have didn't fit misty and she has a small head and I don't think it will fit destiny right eather.


I guess I should reword what I mean she doesn't back well.

Destiny backs when she wants to and when I give her a tap or presure on her nose she just stands there she doesn't let the presure of the taps bother her. so I try a more encouraging tap. She gets a little upset probally not understanding what I am asking her. she does not come into my space she tries to go around me and start lunging. 

Could she not just understand what i'm asking her. What kind of exercise are there to teach a horse that you need to move away from presure? I just thought to myself that maybe she doesn't understand she needs to move away from persure! 

wow i feel kind of blond.

when she does back she only takes a few steps and stops, she is also very heavy on the presure when i'm trying to get her to back. I praise her when she backs and stops when I tell her to stop.

Am I making more sence?


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## mistygirl (May 13, 2010)

Another way of rewording it: 
She only backs if its only a few steps. Maybe i'm just pushing it to fast with backing and confusing her. I try to back her acoss the arena and she stops on her own.


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## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

I am honestly just baffled why you would not get a nice calm, fully trained adult horse, instead of a young green one that will have to be started and trained. That was just looking for a repeat of your problems from before. It's almost like you set yourself up for failure on purpose. Not everyone should try to be a trainer. It is not a bad thing to realize that it is safer and smarter to get a horse that already knows what it is doing. If you are not even sure how to get a horse to back up, then honestly you would be better off with one that knows how to behave already so that YOU can learn. I could be wrong, but I think I remember reading that you got this one free as well. If that was your only reason for getting her, it was a poor choice. If you don't have the money to buy a good horse, then you won't have the money to keep one either.

I wish you the best, but I'm just afraid this is another train wreck waiting to happen.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

I am sorry, but I am truly wondering what the adults in mistygirls life are thinking. Or not thinking, more like it. Just baffles me. Is it possible they have no undestanding this is dangerous?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

franknbeans said:


> I am sorry, but I am truly wondering what the adults in mistygirls life are thinking. Or not thinking, more like it. Just baffles me. Is it possible they have no undestanding this is dangerous?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


From my understanding, they went so far as to yell at the trainers back when she had Misty for telling her to get a horse more suited to her ability.


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

franknbeans said:


> I am sorry, but I am truly wondering what the adults in mistygirls life are thinking. Or not thinking, more like it. Just baffles me. Is it possible they have no undestanding this is dangerous?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My thoughts exactly.


Mistygirl, I only have one comment for your situation(again).


-sigh-


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## Gizmo (Dec 19, 2010)

I only used a chain on my mustang when he was being a REALLY bad boy. You need to work on backing up and just work at until until she gets it. Some horses don't know how to back up you have to teach them. The chain just makes them irritated and it is really painful actually, which is only why I used it on him when he was bad and he knew it too, as soon as you put that chain on him he wouldn't act up at all and then I could take it off and do my task without it.


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## mistygirl (May 13, 2010)

ok heres my question. If an older person got a not even broke horse and knew nothing about horses would you say the same to them or tell them what to do?
i'v noticed teens get treated differently all thats different is age. I'm not completly training my horse I am getting *help*. My mom thinks i'm doing fine. She is not dangerious just lazy and doen't always understand. 


By the time i'm 50 maybe you guys will think i'm good with horses. thats your opinion it doesn't bother me. I think i'm doing a great job with her. 



well see ya!!!

maybe i'll say hello when i'm 50


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## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

I tell ANYBODY regardless of age absolutely not to get a green horse if they don't know anything about horses. Learning while trying to teach your own horse, even WITH help, is extremely dangerous. It has absolutely nothing to do with your age, it has to do with your experience. I think that you are dead set against listening to those that have actually got horse experience, and you are positive you can do it yourself, and that IS an age thing, because at your age, you are sure that the rest of us are morons and don't know what we are talking about. I just hope that you don't get hurt before you figure it out for yourself that we were all right to tell you you didn't need a green horse all along...


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## JustPaint (Sep 27, 2010)

Mistygirl its pretty much always been recommended to start with an older well trained horse for beginners. The stories you read or hear about with "older" people is usually a sense of misprentation. For example a horse was advertised as being "beginner safe" when its really not. Unfortunatley most newbies to the horse world don't have the kind of experience/knowlege to distiguish this notion. 

While its not recommended for beginners to get a green/young horse sometimes these situations can work, but only with effort from both parties. ( owner & trainer)

Hope this helps.


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## mistygirl (May 13, 2010)

Thank You

Anyways I'm not the one training my horse. I get tought how to do it and then I train my horse to do it. I have trained young horses before. I just look at different options to see what I can try and see what works best.

Misty was just not the right horse!


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## UWLEquestrian (Jan 17, 2011)

mistygirl said:


> Thank You
> 
> Anyways I'm not the one training my horse. I get tought how to do it and then I train my horse to do it. I have trained young horses before. I just look at different options to see what I can try and see what works best.
> 
> Misty was just not the right horse!


If you have trained young horses before, how did you start them? What techniques did you use to teach them to back up? Maybe your techniques could apply to Destiny, or if something's missing, look to another one of your methods and try that. Not every horse is the same.
If you're not the one training your horse, ask your TRAINER these questions first. She is being paid to help you. How does your trainer ask Destiny to back up and what techniques did she use to teach her to back up? Maybe ask her or watch her work with Destiny and go from there. 
With that being said, I don't think you would be treated differently were you 50 years old. In fact, I think it would be worse, because right now most of the blame falls on your mom for allowing you to get another unsuitable horse.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

mistygirl said:


> Thank You
> 
> Anyways I'm not the one training my horse. I get tought how to do it and then I train my horse to do it. I have trained young horses before. I just look at different options to see what I can try and see what works best.
> 
> Misty was just not the right horse!


OMG, please don't start with the stories. What horses have you trained? We had to teach you how to _lead_ a horse! This is a total repeat of your time with Misty. The only difference is Misty turned mean towards you & it yet remains to be seen how Destiny will act out. What are you doing to prevent repeating the same mistakes you made before?

Speaking of Misty, she has now taken Destiny's place. Halter left on all the time (rope), feet needing to be done etc.

Yes, Misty wasn't the horse for you but she was finally well on her way. 
I don't understand why you didn't get an already trained horse either? You & your Mom were both told that that was the way to go. You both agreed, though your Mom did say that you weren't getting another horse at all, about 3 days before Destiny showed up.

According to your MO this is about the time where you begin to tell us how mean we are, don't have faith in your ability, we don't know everything..... have at it.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Bookmarking. I have to resurrect my thread, titled "Playing the Hero."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

JustDressageIt said:


> Bookmarking. I have to resurrect my thread, titled "Playing the Hero."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



*Please do and make it quick!
*

I just have this burning urge to send a plane ticket to Misty for a two week horse camp at my place.

I would get her going or maybe she would need therapy after...Ha!


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## ButtInTheDirt (Jan 16, 2011)

I personally would prefer a rope halter over a stud chain, but that doesn't mean either one is better for backing a horse up, that's up to the horse and if it wants to respect you. If it believes that you are respectable. It's really the training in general, not the equiptment. Though having some tack is better than none.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/playing-hero-when-stick-when-realize-50485/


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

mistygirl said:


> ok heres my question. If an older person got a not even broke horse and knew nothing about horses would you say the same to them or tell them what to do?
> i'v noticed teens get treated differently all thats different is age. I'm not completly training my horse I am getting *help*. My mom thinks i'm doing fine. She is not dangerious just lazy and doen't always understand.
> 
> 
> ...


I do not discriminate by age, when it comes to inexperience in regards to training. :wink:

IF indeed you ARE getting one on one help from a colt trainer, GREAT! If this 'quote unquote' trainer has only taught lessons to people on how to ride, and doesn't know how to get a colt how to back up, not so great. 

I bought my first green broke horse when I was 10, but I had a horse trainer help me every step of the way; plus she had helped me learn how to ride, show, and handle horses up til that point as well. So yes, getting a young green horse when you are little is not a bad thing, but the key in point, is that you NEED a person to help you every step of the way. The second you get cocky and think you're doing alright on your own, is when you start having more and more issues, and honestly, it's the horses that suffer for it...because they're the ones that get rehomed.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Not to be mean at all, but from what Natisha has said, I do believe this is quite possibly a case of the parents just giving in to shut the kid up. Mom sounds like she may have had a moment of good sense....then kid starts to whine, and it all goes away. Sorry, have seen that too many times before.

My prediction: Unfortunately the cycle will continue, until someone gets hurt, or they run out of barns to board at/"trainers" to help them.

And Misty, I am sorry, but it sounds like again you are out of your league. Lovey hugs, butterflies and rainbows really don't work.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Marecare said:


> *Please do and make it quick!*
> 
> 
> I just have this burning urge to send a plane ticket to Misty for a two week horse camp at my place.
> ...


Or maybe you would need the therapy! I want to try to do some beginner horse handling clinics but the thing that makes me hesitate is knowing that there will be some smart mouth that refuses to listen and thinks they know all the answers. I can deal effectively with those people if they are adult men out of earshot of impressionable children but it becomes much more difficult if they are women or (god-forbid) teenage girls.


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> Or maybe you would need the therapy! I want to try to do some beginner horse handling clinics but the thing that makes me hesitate is knowing that there will be some smart mouth that refuses to listen and thinks they know all the answers. I can deal effectively with those people if they are adult men out of earshot of impressionable children but it becomes much more difficult if they are women or (god-forbid) teenage girls.


Sometimes it is a lot tougher that trying to ride a bronc and I seem to end up trying to work it out with two or three of them a year.

But I love their youth and energy and think they are the life blood of the future.

Give it a try Kevin!
You have to turn your hair gray sooner or later anyway...Ha!


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## RadHenry09 (Mar 22, 2009)

Isnt that the truth that most teenage girls think they know it all, my daughter isnt even a teen , she is a preteen and she always says to me, "I know, Mom" when I remind her of safe horse handling practices. She does listen to her riding instructor/trainer. For that I am very grateful.

I agree that there needs to be more experienced horse people teaching the young ones how to do things the safe and correct way. After all, the youth that are interested in horses now will be the ones that will help the future of the horse industry.


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## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

I've told my daughter (9) many times while riding that if she doesn't pay attention and try to do as she is told, she will not have a horse to ride any longer. I'm an instructor and I expect her to listen to my direction just as much as my other students. It is my job to teach them how to handle situations, but it only works if they LISTEN. If they don't listen and at least try to do as instructed, they get off the horse. I will not risk their safety or my horses' training just because they think they know it all. 

Even with her well-trained pony, and her 7 years of experience, she needs constant direction and help. It's all about being smart and being safe. And I promise that the horse will learn faster than the inexperienced owner. It's a shame that there are parents out there with such disregard for their children's safety that they will allow them to be put in a dangerous situation just to keep them from whining.


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## Ladytrails (Jul 28, 2010)

Mistygirl, you mentioned that Destiny will back up one step, but stops when you try to back her across the arena. You need to think about backing one step at a time. Remember that she learns from release of pressure, not pressure. So, she backs up one step, you release the pressure; you ask for another step, she backs up, you release the pressure. If you do it right, she will (someday) back across the arena. It sounds like you are not stopping the pressure, she's backing up, she thinks she is doing the right thing but then gets confused and stops on her own ... because you don't "reward" her by releasing the pressure. When you release the pressure, then she **knows** she did the right thing. 

And as far as the stud chain or rope across the nose....I've had horses for 30 years and honestly, I've never ever had a rope across the nose or a stud chain that actually made it easier to get a horse to do something. My experience is that it makes their head go up and if they get confused after that, then their front feet go up in a rear to get away from the pressure. That is a very, very dangerous thing and you don't ever, ever want to teach your horse to go up to get away from pressure. So, your best bet is to get a well fitting halter, use body language and gentle pressure to get her to move one step at a time, release the pressure /calm the body language to tell her she did a good job, and then keep going. After all, you can still get across the arena, one step at a time....


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

JustDressageIt said:


> http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/playing-hero-when-stick-when-realize-50485/


That was a fantastic article. Thanks for reposting it.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

natisha said:


> That was a fantastic article. Thanks for reposting it.


 
Thank you  it took me a few hours to write, and I'm happy with the result. 
We've all been there, or will be there at one point or another in our riding careers. Mine was my first horse, a greenbroke mare I got when I was very young. I "stuck with it" because we paid a small fortune (to us) for her, and I had an excellent trainer every step of the way. I still got gurt, and almost quit riding because of that mare. The only reason it worked out in the end is because I didn't ride her for a year without my trainer right there to guide me.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

JustDressageIt said:


> Thank you  it took me a few hours to write, and I'm happy with the result.
> We've all been there, or will be there at one point or another in our riding careers. Mine was my first horse, a greenbroke mare I got when I was very young. I "stuck with it" because we paid a small fortune (to us) for her, and I had an excellent trainer every step of the way. I still got gurt, and almost quit riding because of that mare. The only reason it worked out in the end is because I didn't ride her for a year without my trainer right there to guide me.


You should submit that to horse magazines. More people need to read it. 
You may have gotten a 'too much horse" horse but you had the smarts to go about it the right way. You shoud be proud.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Marecare said:


> Sometimes it is a lot tougher that trying to ride a bronc and I seem to end up trying to work it out with two or three of them a year.
> 
> !


I concur...It is MUCH easier training a horse than teaching most people...atleast in my experience; not that there aren't those out there willing to learn, and willing to admit that they don't know enough to handle their horse, but a vast majority purchase a horse with little knowledge of how to handle them, let alone train one, and hit roadblocks and cant figure out why. And NOT every person, IMHO is cut out to be a horse trainer (do we all 'train our horses' to some extent, yes, can't argue there; but this includes both 'good and bad' habits) but not everyone is cut out to bring a horse from unhandled to broke. 

My husband and I are the perfect example of this; He can handle a horse for the most part, if I have him hold one for me, and he knows not to let said horse into his space and how to try and get him out of his space if it does, but he still doesn't have that feel and timing to communicate to the horse effortlessly. He's clumsy, easily distracted, easily frustrated, and He doesn't always know when exactly to release pressure, even though I've explained it to him a million times, etc, etc. When he watches me work a horse, often he's like, "I didn't even see you give the horse a cue" to which I am like "it's there, watch closer"...that's how it should be; does that take some time to refine, sure, for both horse and handler, but you have to know how to get there first.


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

I don't suggest using a chain or a whip to make the horse back up. If she if she isn't backing it's because she isn't responding to pressure properly, which means that's where you need to start. Don't scare her into backing up with a whip or a chain... that's just chasing her backwards.


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