# Showing Expectations not Equal for Clients



## showmom

Our child is trained by an awesome trainer. She is great at what she does and has the records to prove it. Here is our issue and maybe it's a non-issue but it has us and other clients a little perturbed.

One of the trainers clients is a child, two years younger than mine, so she is 11. She is the newest one to our "family" and while we all love the child, we have an issue with the parents. The parents do not come to any of the shows, most of which are out of town and an entire weekend long ordeal. Everyone else who shows (there are several adults and 2 other kids) is there and takes part in making sure that the shows go smoothly. My husband and I are taking care of our childs needs (tacking up, uniform changes, grooming, putting in tails, making sure that our child knows patterns and when the next class is and what class we are currently on, etc.). All of our trainers other clients are trying to do the same thing. In the meantime, our trainer is busy parenting the parentless child and even when it comes to warming up and practicing, she has to focus more on this child because her parents are there to help. One particular show that we were at, my child missed a training class, because I had left the premises to go get some things that the entire crew needed. The class was missed because the trainer was practicing with the little girl, who had a class two classes after the one my child missed. While we are not trainers, my husband and I can watch our child practice and give some hints, but we can't tell her everything that she is doing wrong, that's her trainers job. 

Herein lies the issue, our trainer is so worried about this child being on her own that she is detrimentally affecting the other clients, mainly the kids but even the few adults who show have said they made mistakes in classes because during practice they did the same thing and our trainer didn't correct them so they thought they were performing the moves correctly.

On top of ALL of this, it is unfair to the rest of the family who have to pay for the gas to get to the shows, all of the food (we keep it stocked in one of the trailers - the little girls parents don't offer to pay for anything, even if we all decide to go out to eat someone has to pay for her), hotels (not all of us have LQ trailers), and the trainers hotel. This little girl stays with our trainer alot too so our trainer is babysitting all weekend long. Although the adults understand it, the other children are getting very discouraged because they see our trainer spending literally night and day with this child and feel as if they are less important because of it.

Another concern is that this is an event in which their daughter could potentially be injured and NO ONE has power of attorney to make medical decisions for her. Her parents say "Oh, we gave the trainer an insurance card". 

So essentially, other than her show fees, everyone else is absorbing the costs financially and in our show performances because of this one child's parents being absent. We have all said something to our trainer and she says she has told the parents (I personally have said something to the parents myself as we are casual friends outside of this) and the parents seem oblivious and say "Well, our old trainer did everything for us". Well, their old trainer only had one other client for a reason and it's because the old trainer is terrible. That's why they found a new trainer.

The trainer says that she feels bad for the little girl and even though she's spoken to the parents, she doesn't want them to take her from this child because they've bonded.

Are we all being too touchy or does our trainer need to step up and tell the parents that one of them MUST be present at ALL shows for the entirety of the show??? This way everyone is being treated equal and our trainer has more time to focus on her entire crew instead of one. Our child has told our trainer that she pays more attention to this one child and that the shows are always about this one little girl. We are seriously on the verge of taking our child and horses to another trainer and I know that others feel the same way about finding a new trainer. 

Need serious feedback on this situation. It is at a point that a decision has to be made one way or another. We love our trainer and want to stay with her, but not at the detriment of our childs performance. We have entirely too much money invested to watch our child be thrown by the wayside in favor of another child, just because her parents can't be parents.


----------



## smrobs

I think at this point the best idea would be to have a sit down meeting with the trainer and all the other parents (the absentee parents as well). You all need to discuss your feelings about this and try to work something out where everyone is getting a fair shake.


----------



## churumbeque

I agree I would have a serious talk with the trainer also. Who knows she may be getting paid extra also. Lets say the parents pitched in $$ that still does not solve the baby sitting issue. I would be most upset about lack of attention though and missing the class and not sure what you pay for coaching at shows or hauling and such but that would be my beef with the trainer. She is the one that needs to handle this and she may very well be getting compensated also for the food and such. I would not talk with the parents and if the trainer didnt handle it explain that it is a deal breaker.


----------



## NBEventer

smrobs nailed it. I think a "show team meeting" is what is needed. I think everyone needs to speak up about their frustrations. Even to the point where you all say you are done paying for the trainers expenses when she is not fulfilling her duties as the trainer/coach at shows.


----------



## gypsygirl

That is ridiculous. If the trainer is unwilling to remedy the situation after sitting her down and talking to her again, I would move barns.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## showmom

I know the parents outside of the show world and they have slipped up and mentioned how much they pay for shows and such and it is not equal to what the other parents are paying. They are really only pay the show fees, stalls, hauling and shavings. They are not paying for food (I know this because I buy they majority of it and everyone else splits the costs, unless we go out) or babysitting. I've also seen their bill when I was handed the wrong one accidentally and didn't open it until I got home so I know this for a fact. Half the time the forgot to pack the child clothes! They're terrible parents as far as I'm concerned.

Also, they see nothing wrong with the situation and think it's normal but honestly it's having an impact on the rest of the team, especially the other kids.


----------



## NBEventer

Well then I would flat out tell your trainer that unless things change, you will be taking your daughter elsewhere. I think the whole team should get together and approach the trainer saying this. 

I understand your trainer wanting to help this child, and she likely feels bad for the kid. But there needs to be a balance somewhere. You can't focus all your attention on one kid and leave the rest of your clients hanging and still expect your clients to pay on top of it.


----------



## showmom

I agree NB. I just wanted to make sure that before I really pressed the issue I had others who would do the same in this situation. 

Thanks everyone!


----------



## DuckDodgers

NBEventer said:


> Well then I would flat out tell your trainer that unless things change, you will be taking your daughter elsewhere. I think the whole team should get together and approach the trainer saying this.
> 
> I understand your trainer wanting to help this child, and she likely feels bad for the kid. But there needs to be a balance somewhere. You can't focus all your attention on one kid and leave the rest of your clients hanging and still expect your clients to pay on top of it.


This. Explain to the trainer that you find it unfair that you are paying for her services, and yet are finding yourself shortchanged and having to pay for another child's expenses as well. It's just not right. Definitely agree with having a trainer and parents meeting! It's entirely possible that the parents CAN'T be there for some reason, but that doesn't mean that this kid should get all of the attention, or that you should have to buy the supplies for their child. It's unfortunate for the extra kid, but you're paying good money for this trainer's help!

If things won't change, then either consider not using this trainer's help at shows, or hiring the trainer specifically for the period of warm up prior to your child's class. If she still can't pry herself away from the other kids for that warm up period, then move on. I would start keeping your kid's snacks and drinks separate from the group pile, and basically start separating yourself from the group. 

Something else to think about- look at how pony club rallies are run. They're theoretically managed by the children mostly with minimal input from parents and trainers. Perhaps it's time for ALL of the kids to start gaining some independence from adults. 11 is WAY old enough to begin developing independence. Help everyone make a checklist for what equipment they will need and schedules. Include all tack and rider clothing, and make a list of when their classes are, what time they need to begin grooming their horse, what time they need to be done, what time to change clothes, when to mount, everything. Work on it with them as soon as you know the show schedule. Buy them watches to keep track of their own schedule. They'll catch on pretty quickly, and I'm sure it would only take one missed class for them to learn the importance of organization and punctuality! You can still be there to help, but they're never too young to learn organization and time management skills. 

It'll also help take some of the pressure off the trainer for little things like getting dressed on time. My logic would be that if they're not at least making an attempt to follow their schedule (for your kid, the parentless kid, and everyone else) then they'll have to learn quickly. 

A communal trainer and supplies are fantastic... until someone spoils it for everyone.


----------



## Prinella

Duck dodgers makes a great point. 

Are there any spare adults around? Second parents etc who could make sure that the child has done everything on her checklist. (Literally laminate these and stick on the trailer to mark with a whiteboard marker) 

These checklists would work for adults and children alike,
class 1 : led
Time : 10am 
Prepare: 9:15
Head to ring: 9:45
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HorseMom1025

I am a horse show mom with a daughter who is on a show team. All the riders on the team are youth. From age 8 to 17. So, I can certainly empathize with your situation.

My husband and I are hard-core show parents. For us it's not about winning at all, but about participating and doing your best at the show. We come to evey one of our daughter's shows and we give 110% to support the entire team. Heck, I'm the team's show secretary. I wrote and built the show parent information packets for our coach. Inside, we put a list of rules and expectations for the riders, the parents, and the trainer. My husband and I are often the ONLY parents who show up early to set up the tack stall and get the team gear organized. Even with the detailed list of supplies we provide, kids end up borrowing everything from bobby pins to baby oil. We spend the day of the show prepping our daughter, her horse and helping keep the other kids on track. Most of the parents, if they do bother to show up, are either in the way...or sitting in the stands doing nothing to help. And yes, we do have parents who send young kids (8-12) along with our trainer, alone, to shows.

Luckily, our trainer appreciates us. She tried very hard to give equal time to the kids and is able to prioritize the training for each child..so they get warm-up time, pattern clarification, and a word of encouragement before entering the ring.

If your trainer cannot do the same, I think it's time to have a CTJ meeting, set your expectations and be prepared to switch barns if she fails to meet your very reasonable expectations.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DuffyDuck

Her parents are not "terrible parents". 
Not everyone is horsey, or understands the commitment in showing. I have been a volunteer on children's holidays. One of the girls, and her brother, turned up unwashed, all clothes packed dirty and not enough to last the week. They were teeming with headlice. That is being a terrible parent, and it broke my heart.
Your trainer has made a rod for her own back in taking on responsibility of this child.

Express your concerns and issues with your trainer, and I am sure that she will have answers to your questions, or be able to talk things through.

Showing is a huge commitment that unless you start with it, you don't appreciate how much time, planning and effort go in to it.

If the trainer refuses to see fault, I'd find someone new.


----------



## Ninamebo

I'm going to play devils advocate here. While I really do agree with everything people are saying about something needing to change, a meeting or such, I can empathize with the girl.

As Duffy mentioned, not all parents are horsey people, some may have jobs that require them to work weekends, etc. I can probably count on one hand the number of shows my parents showed up for, and there was no help involved past bringing me lunch simply because they would not know what to do. Showing was my thing, so I babysat to make money to go, would pay another mom for a ride there, had all my things in order at the show and wore a watch so that I never was late for a class.

If the youngest girl is eleven, then these girls are quite capable of taking on a bit more responsibility of their own. My trainer got pretty upset if she saw parents helping out too much- 

That said, I do think the way your team has been running things so far might not work out. If the parents can't come to support their daughter, does she have a sibling, aunt/uncle or family friend that could pitch in?

A meeting to get everything out in the open is best. If nothing else, at least have the girl bring some food to add to the bin and have all the parents on the team pitch in to help the girl out so that the trainers hands can be freed up to do her job.


----------



## smrobs

There is nothing at all wrong with the trainer doing all for a child whose parents can't/won't help for whatever reason. I would expect those parents to pay a lot more than the parents of a child who doesn't need all that attention because they have help from family/friends.

HOWEVER, once the trainer's _other_ clients start to suffer because of how much time she is spending on the one parent-less child, then something has to change. Either the trainer needs fewer clients, needs to manage her time better, or the one girl needs to find a trainer who isn't so busy and has the time to devote the entire show to helping her.


----------



## showmom

ALL of the clients have a "show box" in which they keep their supplies and such. At each show, we get their schedules and tape it to the top of their boxes as well. There are "spare" adults but mostly everyone is busy with their own schedules. I understand my trainer is in a very rough spot with this one and she has expressed it bothers her too, but she doesn't know how to handle it without upsetting and possibly losing this client. I get it. But... this client only has one horse and one kid. Although we have one kid, we have multiple horses we are paying for her to train. I don't want to use the "I pay more money than them" as leverage to get her to do something, but I feel like I'm almost there. 

And I do agree this is an issue the trainer needs to handle, but I also feel like no matter how it's handled, the parents are going to continue to do this until she just finally drops them b/c they are costing her business, such as if us or other clients begin to leave over this whole situation.

It's very frustrating. We are a team and are supposed to support one another, including the orphan kid (that's my new descriptive... not funny, but true) with or without her parents help. But it's driving us all crazy. I'm going to talk to my trainer once more about it today and if nothing changes at the next show, then we'll discuss taking more drastic measures like looking for new facilities and a trainer. Just hate to do it. My child loves her trainer.


----------



## showmom

Nina, the little girls mother does not work. She uses horse show weekends as an excuse to go out and party, then posts pictures of her partying on Facebook, while we're posting pictures of our daughter and her daughter at horse shows. The parents are split up and so she's single and wants freedom. The dad is normally at a bar, deer lease or fishing on weekends she has shows. They are just disinterested parents anyway you look at it. They support their older sons roping and go to those all the time and he's 18. I don't care if they're horsey people or not, they should at least be their childs parents and support her passion instead of pushing it off on everyone else. I love my horses, but I would like to do something on my weekends besides horse shows 3 weekends a month. I do it because it's important to my child and her needs come before my wants.


----------



## showmom

Oh also... I guess this should be mentioned on the time issue, my daughter and this girl show in a lot of the same classes. But when they go to the practice arena, the trainer focuses more on her. I know her logic is that my husband particularly knows what to look for and correct (more so than me) so she doesn't have to pay that much attention to mine, but it bothers my child and again, my husband is not a trainer. Sure he knows horses and knows the big things to look for but little things that may not be so obvious to him have been missed. For example, her horse is a leg horse. But occasionally she is pulling on the reins more than she should or getting him in the bit a little too hard because he isn't responding to the leg pressure. I assume this is because she isn't either doing it correctly or she's doing it too lightly to where the horse doesn't know what she's asking him to do. She has been called out on that by a judge before about yanking on the horses face, even though she knows better. She says she didn't realize she was pulling that hard. These are things the trainer should be able to see immediately if she's watching her warm up and correct her. That's why I pay her.


----------



## HorseMom1025

Showmom, I get it, I really do. We have a similar child on our team (let's call her Suzy). She is the same age as my daughter (11). Her mother is notorious for expecting our trainer to meet her on the way to the show to get Suzy. So, our trainer, pulling a 3 horse LQ trailer has to pull over on the way to a show and wait for Suzy's mom (who is always late) to bring her to the meeting place. 

Then, she expects our trainer to call her and arrange a drop off of Suzy after the show...meaning another side trip with trailer and horses in tow.

EVERY other parent on the team manages to either drop off and pick up at the barn on-time OR brings their child to the show and picks them up afterward. But not Suzy's mom. We are lucky if Suzy even has clean show clothes because normally they are just shoved in a dirty duffle bag between shows. Let's not even get started on being ready for her classes. But, luckily for us, the coach expects the kids to know their schedule. She tells the kids to "get ready and meet me in the warm up" and then coaches the kids as they arrive. If you waste time and show up a minute before your class starts, that's your fault and the coach sends you into the ring. Then, you WILL get a lecture later.

Suzy recently purchased a horse. The horse has nothing, not even a halter and lead rope. They had the horse dropped off at our barn and have not purchased a single item for it. Suzy's Mom assumes that they can just continue to "borrow" our trainer's stuff.

There are "users" in all sports/organizations. In your situation and mine, I don't blame the child, I blame the parent.

The only avenue available to you is to get your trainer to understand how HER actions are impacting you. She needs to understand that you are frustrated and will not tolerate the inequity much longer. She can still help this child, but she needs to find a better balance or the ONLY client she will have is this child.

Good luck!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DuckDodgers

I can definitely see a clear issue in the warmup ring. I can somewhat understand the time spent in preparation for the child since she doesn't have a parent to help, but it's not ok for her to spend more time in warmup when you're both paying for shared time. Explain that your husband is not a qualified trainer, and that you expect your child to receive the same attention in warmup before classes! If she can't oblige, then definitely find someone else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Foxhunter

When I was teaching I encouraged most of the capable children to compete. We oft and took 20+ horses and ponies to shows. Some were owned by the riders others belonged to the riding school and were shared by pupils of the school.

Parents were rarely able to attend the show because they were involved in the tourist industry and had to cater for guests even at weekends. 
I made a couple of large charts with all the classes and in each box I put the child's name and pony they would be riding. 

I couldn't be everywhere at once so they had to be independent and look after themselves and help each other. 

When you get children that are 'dumped' on someone like your trainer, and it happened to me, you cannot help but feel sorry for the child. There is a big difference between parents who _cannot_ attend a show and those that just will not put the sleeves out for their offspring. 

I will say that I had a great deal of 'help' from parents who did attend shows and they would often be helping younger children who had no one to look after them.

I agree that the whole matter needs to be talked over. I also think that there are times when you could take care of this child when the trainer is needed elsewhere.


----------



## 4hoofbeat

When i did shows, we were responsible for ourselves.. i think the earliest i remember showing was 11 or 12. The chart the trainer made up had our name and the horse we were riding, which class, and time. We needed to be there ready to go, on time. ( I hated showing, but did it for the experience) The place I rode had many kids doing lessons, and many kids doing shows. It was common place for there to be parents there helping kids that weren't their own to get ready. but ultimately it was our responsibility to be in the ring on time. 

i did 4-h for a while, similar to pony club. 
They have sepecific rules for parents.

AT THE SHOW
1. Be prepared to spend the day with your child and horse.
2. It is strongly recommended that horses be kept in or tied to trailers that are attached to tow vehicles. If tow vehicle is removed, trailers must be property and securely blocked.
3. Parents may not groom, prepare or assist with horses with the exceptions of
a. loading and unloading.
b. horse holding.
c. giving a rider a leg up, if necessary.
d. harnessing and tightening girths.
e. common sense in regards to safety may justify additional assistance.

4. Be sure that your child and horse
a. have lots of liquids available and drink throughout the day.
b. eat throughout the day.
c. have protection from the sun and do not over heat.
d. that your child does not use the horse as a chair between classes. This is show day for the 
horse, too!


----------



## ojzab

It seems that your trainer really likes the little girl and gives her preferential treatment, which creates conflict within the team, and maybe some jealousy on the part of other riders. 

How's the situation in your team in general? It seems strange that no one reminded your daughter about her warm up, even if you yourself weren't there.


----------



## gigem88

Although I see how this would be infuriating to the other parents and children, it's not the little girl's fault! Talking with the parents might help, but more than not it won't. Is this girl a brat and expect everything is to be done for her? Do her parents fail to pay attention to her at home? Or, does this girl really like showing and wants to learn, etc? If so, then I think the other parents helping (even though it is a burden) is the selfless thing to do. As she grows older, she may well be in a position to "pay it forward" and help others. You never know how your treatment of others affect that person or the people around you.


----------



## Katz1411

Since when do parents have to be there at every show, the entire time, micro-managing everything? When i showed as a kid, starting around age 11 or so, my parents couldn't make all of my shows. I had no problem getting to the barn early with all my stuff, submitting show fees, getting my pony ready, getting to my classes, etc.


----------



## Left Hand Percherons

You don't have a parent issue. You have a trainer issue. She must be able to have boundaries because you and the kids are clients. Not family, not BFFs, paying clients.


----------



## DreaMy

IMHO, if you have to babysit each rider its not really worth it. When I started "showing" (I briefly participated in a local gymkhana series) I didn't own my own horse but showing was the time when I took control, sure my coach gave pointers in the warm up arena and walked us in but for the most part it was also about learning to take care of yourself and have fun. 

I went to go watch a show that some of my friends were riding in (mother and 9 y.o. daughter, another mother and their 14 y.o. daughter) honestly that trainer and her helper were running their heads off trying to be there and do this, go there and help someone with that and they only had 4 horses there: 1 kid on a lesson/leased horse, the 2 girls I went to watch accompanied by their mothers (experienced horsewomen) and an adult on her own horse. One of my friends suggested that I take lessons with them and I politely declined -- I wanted a trainer that would teach me how to do things on my own rather than someone I could use as a crutch. Just my 2 cents


----------



## 40232

I started showing around 11 years old in 4-h and local breed shows for Arabians. I packed the trailer myself, bathed my horse myself, got up early myself. At the show I groomed my horse myself, tacked him up myself, got my show clothes on myself. There is no reason for her to be babysat like she is, but saying this, your daughter shouldn't have to be either, nor the rest of the team. Showing is a learning curve for everyone - how much time should be spent getting ready, warming up, etc. 

For now, if your trainer is busy helping the girl, have your daughter ask for the help of older show team members, if there is any. I got though my showing years with the minimal help of a girl a few years older than me. We traveled and showed together, so if either of us needed a pair of eyes from the ground, we had it. If one of us were running late for a class, we could ask the other to do so and so. 

My circumstances were different from the girl, but when I was 13, my mom was dealing with serious health problems. 3 days before the show my mom was planning on attending with me, she had a stroke. Sure, it sucked, but the day before the show I still packed the trailer and still got ready myself. I still got up early the next morning and loaded my horse in the trailer and was on my way. At that time I was showing 2 horses at a single show, for the first time ever. With the time management skills I learned in previous years, everything went smoothly. I had zero family support, and no friend there with me, yet I survived the show day.

This girl, your daughter, whoever is on the team should be learning to be responsible for themselves - it shouldn't all be on the coaches shoulders. I also think you should talk to the trainer, but you can't expect the trainer to watch over x amount of girls every single moment of a show day. I don't know what level your daughter shows at, but I would start being very hands off at shows, so if she misses a class now, it wouldn't be a huge loss. Let her learn what works and what doesn't, so when it comes time for her to show at larger shows and not have you there, she can manage herself. I learned so much showing on my own from a young age.


----------



## DreaMy

KylieHuitema I'm so sorry that you couldn't have the support of friends/family during showing, I don't think I would've made it through without friends and family (not b/c I couldn't take care of myself I just enjoy company and sometimes hanging out between classes was the best part of shows for me). I see nothing wrong with her parents being there but I agree that at 13 maybe she should start to take care of herself -- has daughter approached her coach herself? That way the coach could see that the kids also see this too, of course in a tactful manner.

Edit: I just saw this thread is a few weeks old, has there been any sort of decision by OP?


----------



## Palomine

Don't expect the other parents to back you up, they may be telling you they are ticked about it, but may be telling trainer they "understand and it's fine if they get short end."

Honestly, I'd move my horse and my child. This is not going to get better, and this is a lousy trainer to be doing this in the first place. I don't care how much she's won, shown, or how many customers she has.

A GOOD trainer, especially of children, would NOT do this and neglect their other clients.

Move.


----------



## Zexious

I will say the same thing I say on all other threads of this variety...

If you aren't happy with the services you are being provided, find another trainer.


----------



## skittlesfirehawk

bump for update?


----------



## RegularJoe

I don't know a thing about horse showing, so take this for what it's worth, but I've seen all of these same kinds of issues in sports and dance. 

If you otherwise like the trainer, then maybe you need to look for solutions rather than just tossing it back in her lap. I get the sense that your trainer is out of her element and not sure how to proceed. Not everyone who is good at training horses is necessarily going to be good at handling these kinds of problems, but it may not have to become a deal-breaker for everyone. 

Perhaps one of the parents or an older sibling who isn't showing could take over the babysitting chores so that your trainer is free to train. Costs of shared lunches, babysitting fees, etc., would then be an issue between you and those parents. The trainer would then only have to say "you need to work with the other parents to have someone attend to your daughter during shows." It might be easier if you and your trainer approach this together and tell her that you want to help her but can't let her continue to be distraction for your trainer during shows.


----------



## showmom

skittlesfirehawk said:


> bump for update?


We are still with our trainer but actively searching for a new one. The situation is not getting any better. It has gotten progressively worse. I have talked to the trainer several times and she swears she's talked to the parents and she's going to stop babysitting the one child, but the last show we went to two weekends ago nothing changed. AT ALL. It's just frustrating.

And to those who say "Well I was going to shows by myself at 11". I'm sorry your parents couldn't be there. We are lucky enough to be able to attend and help our daughter. We keep her on her schedule and make sure that she knows which saddle pads and outfits she is supposed to be in. I think it is way too stressful for a child to have to remember ALL of the tasks stuff, plus remember and listen for each class AND warm-up their horse and memorize patterns alone. However, in the rare instance that we are unavailable, her trainer needs to be able to guide her and that's my point. She can not guide her when she is solely focused on this one child for the entirety of the show. That has been proven.


----------



## showmom

gigem88 said:


> Although I see how this would be infuriating to the other parents and children, it's not the little girl's fault! Talking with the parents might help, but more than not it won't. Is this girl a brat and expect everything is to be done for her? Do her parents fail to pay attention to her at home? Or, does this girl really like showing and wants to learn, etc? If so, then I think the other parents helping (even though it is a burden) is the selfless thing to do. As she grows older, she may well be in a position to "pay it forward" and help others. You never know how your treatment of others affect that person or the people around you.


I completely agree it's not the childs fault and I've said that from the beginning. However, with that being said, it's also not MY childs fault that the girls parents aren't there and she is being affected by it as well.


----------



## showmom

Katz1411 said:


> Since when do parents have to be there at every show, the entire time, micro-managing everything? When i showed as a kid, starting around age 11 or so, my parents couldn't make all of my shows. I had no problem getting to the barn early with all my stuff, submitting show fees, getting my pony ready, getting to my classes, etc.


So you got to the barn, by yourself and to the show by yourself? Was your show next door to your house? The shows we go to are typically over 100 miles away. Pretty sure my kid would have a tough time making it there by herself. 

And I think ANY responsible parent would be there and would WANT to be there, not HAVE to be there. It is not to "micro manage", rather be there to support and help our daughter should she need us. 

Sorry that your parents couldn't be at your shows, but our daughter appreciates our dedication to her and her passion.


----------



## NBEventer

I usually didn't have a trainer going to shows with me from the time I was 13 until 16. I was flying solo. My Mom would take me to as many as she could but she was just the pony holder. I would tack up, memorize my patterns, get myself ready etc all on my own. No trainer or anyone to help me out. My Mom would just hold the horse lol. She wasn't very horsey.

If my Mom couldn't go to shows, I would go with the guy who would trailer me. Mom would drop me off at the barn in the morning and I would get my horse ready and ride to the show with the guy who trailered. 

You're daughter is lucky to have such an awesome support system for showing. You sound like pretty great parents.


----------



## HorseMom1025

Showmom, I get it 100%. Both my DH and I go to almost every show. (Once a year my DH has a conflict, but I'm always there).

We pay our coach to train our child at shows. We are responsible for helping our daughter be prepared to show. She is involved in all aspects of her show day, however, she is still learning and relies on our support and help. Three sets of hands help immensely! One of us gets the horse ready, she gets herself dressed and I help with hair and makeup. 

Meanwhile, her trainer is busy in the warm up ring coaching kids and walking them thru their patterns. It's a group effort.

Once she is set, I head for the stands and keep track of placings. I also keep up with water and snacks for horse and rider. I have my jobs, Kitten and Acey have theirs. Our coach is there to ensure our daughter knows what to do and to critique her class.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DuckDodgers

showmom said:


> So you got to the barn, by yourself and to the show by yourself? Was your show next door to your house? The shows we go to are typically over 100 miles away. Pretty sure my kid would have a tough time making it there by herself.
> 
> And I think ANY responsible parent would be there and would WANT to be there, not HAVE to be there. It is not to "micro manage", rather be there to support and help our daughter should she need us.
> 
> Sorry that your parents couldn't be at your shows, but our daughter appreciates our dedication to her and her passion.


I think that most folks are pointing out that it may be time for everyone to start helping all of the kids develop some independence. That doesn't mean that you stop going to her shows or stop helping her, but make a move towards that independence. I'm sorry to hear that you haven't made any progress with the trainer, and I hope you can find someone else that'll better suit your needs!


----------



## Katz1411

"And to those who say "Well I was going to shows by myself at 11". I'm sorry your parents couldn't be there. We are lucky enough to be able to attend and help our daughter. We keep her on her schedule and make sure that she knows which saddle pads and outfits she is supposed to be in. I think it is way too stressful for a child to have to remember ALL of the tasks stuff, plus remember and listen for each class AND warm-up their horse and memorize patterns alone"

I don't recall it being stressful, the anticipation and preparation were fun.


----------



## Katz1411

showmom said:


> So you got to the barn, by yourself and to the show by yourself? Was your show next door to your house? The shows we go to are typically over 100 miles away. Pretty sure my kid would have a tough time making it there by herself.
> 
> And I think ANY responsible parent would be there and would WANT to be there, not HAVE to be there. It is not to "micro manage", rather be there to support and help our daughter should she need us.
> 
> Sorry that your parents couldn't be at your shows, but our daughter appreciates our dedication to her and her passion.


Some of us shared rides - the stable was about 5 miles from our neighborhood and 3 of us lived there, our parents took turns taking us. Once at the barn we'd all get to the show with the trailers, the barn owner or with one of the riders who was over 16 and drove; this was in Kentucky and there were many shows, pony club rallies, clinics, events, etc w/in a days drive. At least 2 of my childhood friends became professional riders and trainers, another worked at Churchill Downs; no helicopter parenting needed.


----------



## RegularJoe

showmom said:


> We are still with our trainer but actively searching for a new one.


That's unfortunate. Have you told her clearly that this is a deal-breaker for you and that you're looking for a new trainer? If she hasn't heard it said plainly, she may be in denial about the problems these parents are creating by not doing their share. 



> And to those who say "Well I was going to shows by myself at 11"...


Personally, I agree that 11 is a bit young to be expected to keep track of a complicated schedule and care for yourself and your horse without help. No doubt plenty of old-timers around here will tell us that they did all that and walked uphill both ways in the snow to school at the same time, but I suspect that they had more help than they're letting on. 

And even if someone did do all that, it's totally irrelevant. You've chosen to hire a trainer to coach and assist your daughter. Whether or not she needs that is your decision. 

The bottom line is that you're paying your trainer for something she's not doing, and that's unacceptable.


----------



## HorseMom1025

RegularJoe, you said what I was thinking. 

I do not consider myself a helicopter parent. I love horses as much as my daughter does and we enjoy sharing the experience. Kitten is still not quite ready to do this alone, she asks for help...but she DOES know what has to be done. We go over her checklists together, she helps pack her show trunk, pack the trailer, prepare her horse (bathing, clipping, etc), and she selects her classes from the show bill. 

The OP's involvement in her child's show day is irrelevant. The bottom line is that her coach is not managing her time well and providing the service they are paying for. It doesn't matter why (she could be too busy talking to her trainer friends), the end result is the same.

If the coach is unwilling or unable to make the changes necessary to satisfy all her clients' needs, it's time to find a new coach who will.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gossalyn

I have another suggestion.. if your trainer is unable to change her behavior, is it possible to insist the child have essentially a babysitter come with her? maybe a local barn teenager or something who can supervise and keep her on schedule? and then charge a fee for that? Probably not in the realm of possibilities but thought I would throw it out there.


----------



## franknbeans

I have to say, This will not be an issue too many more years, OP. If your daughter is typical, she will turn "teen"at any time. At this point, may I suggest you find the nearest Pony CLub. I LOVE them. Parents are not allowed to help AT ALL. Kids and their coach (typically a volunteer, like 4-h) does all of it. it was a life saver when my daughter was teen, since no matter what I said it was wrong. (and I have been riding 40+yrs……). THey do become "human" again at about 22. Happily-my DD and I both survived.


----------



## showmom

We are actively searching for a new trainer after some recent new developments (not even associated with this issue) came to light. We are highly disappointed in her character and she is not the person or trainer we thought she was. Let's just say us and three other clients are searching for a new trainer at this point in time over this last straw she pulled. I think since her business grew so quickly, she has gotten too arrogant and convinced herself that she was so good that everyone would put up with anything she did or said. That didn't go over well needless to say.

Thanks to everyone for all the input!


----------



## DuckDodgers

showmom said:


> We are actively searching for a new trainer after some recent new developments (not even associated with this issue) came to light. We are highly disappointed in her character and she is not the person or trainer we thought she was. Let's just say us and three other clients are searching for a new trainer at this point in time over this last straw she pulled. I think since her business grew so quickly, she has gotten too arrogant and convinced herself that she was so good that everyone would put up with anything she did or said. That didn't go over well needless to say.
> 
> Thanks to everyone for all the input!


Probably good that it happened now since you were already looking in that direction. Mind if I ask what these new issues are about? None of my business really, but I'm a nosy person...


----------



## RegularJoe

DuckDodgers said:


> None of my business really, but I'm a nosy person...


That struck me funny, mainly because I was also curious. 

And, if I might add, not unreasonably so. Whatever it was might be something to be on the alert for. 

Mostly, though, I'm just nosy too.


----------



## DuckDodgers

RegularJoe said:


> That struck me funny, mainly because I was also curious.
> 
> And, if I might add, not unreasonably so. Whatever it was might be something to be on the alert for.
> 
> Mostly, though, I'm just nosy too.


Well, by none of my business I mean that it's her situation and that she's well within her rights to answer our prying questions. Not that there's something wrong with us being curious. I say that particularly since she left the information out to begin with- perhaps that was for a reason :wink: There are a large number of situations that I'd rather not discuss on the world wide web, but if this isn't one of those then I'm curious to know.


----------



## RegularJoe

DuckDodgers said:


> Well, by none of my business I mean that it's her situation and that she's well within her rights to answer our prying questions. Not that there's something wrong with us being curious. I say that particularly since she left the information out to begin with- perhaps that was for a reason :wink: There are a large number of situations that I'd rather not discuss on the world wide web, but if this isn't one of those then I'm curious to know.


Well, I agree entirely. 

Showmom - you should absolutely feel free to tell us all you'd rather not discuss it, or that we should mind our own business, or to just ignore the question entirely. You're under no obligation whatsoever to answer. 

We are still nosy, though.


----------



## Saddlebag

A tho't just occurred to me...perhaps the delinquent parents are paying the coach handsomely for her time and attention at the shows. I doubt she'd share that info. and the more everyone picked up the financial slack the more in the coach's pocket. (just a thought). My parents couldn't help me at shows. I packed a lunch and was on my own. No one hovered over me telling me all the "should haves and what to do's" I knew when I'd screwed up and worked to correct it the next time. By using my own brains it made a better, bolder rider out of me.


----------



## Peanutbutter

I think howmom's child is very lucky. My parents rearly come to my shows. I was dropped of at the barn in the morning, and went through the day with my friends. If they sometime found the time to come they werent really involved at all. I really wanted them to care and support like other parents, but they just didn't.

Good luck finding a trainer, and good for you that you support your child 100%.


----------



## showmom

Sorry guys, I'd rather not say on the www... but suffice it to say that it was completely unprofessional and downright dirty. This really is all unfortunate because she has the potential to be such a great trainer, she is just young and needs to grow up before trying to run her own business. 

2 of the other clients have already left. It's really sad honestly.


----------



## GreySorrel

showmom said:


> Our child is trained by an awesome trainer. She is great at what she does and has the records to prove it. Here is our issue and maybe it's a non-issue but it has us and other clients a little perturbed.
> 
> One of the trainers clients is a child, two years younger than mine, so she is 11. She is the newest one to our "family" and while we all love the child, we have an issue with the parents. The parents do not come to any of the shows, most of which are out of town and an entire weekend long ordeal. Everyone else who shows (there are several adults and 2 other kids) is there and takes part in making sure that the shows go smoothly. My husband and I are taking care of our childs needs (tacking up, uniform changes, grooming, putting in tails, making sure that our child knows patterns and when the next class is and what class we are currently on, etc.). All of our trainers other clients are trying to do the same thing. In the meantime, our trainer is busy parenting the parentless child and even when it comes to warming up and practicing, she has to focus more on this child because her parents are there to help. One particular show that we were at, my child missed a training class, because I had left the premises to go get some things that the entire crew needed. The class was missed because the trainer was practicing with the little girl, who had a class two classes after the one my child missed. While we are not trainers, my husband and I can watch our child practice and give some hints, but we can't tell her everything that she is doing wrong, that's her trainers job.
> 
> Herein lies the issue, our trainer is so worried about this child being on her own that she is detrimentally affecting the other clients, mainly the kids but even the few adults who show have said they made mistakes in classes because during practice they did the same thing and our trainer didn't correct them so they thought they were performing the moves correctly.
> 
> On top of ALL of this, it is unfair to the rest of the family who have to pay for the gas to get to the shows, all of the food (we keep it stocked in one of the trailers - the little girls parents don't offer to pay for anything, even if we all decide to go out to eat someone has to pay for her), hotels (not all of us have LQ trailers), and the trainers hotel. This little girl stays with our trainer alot too so our trainer is babysitting all weekend long. Although the adults understand it, the other children are getting very discouraged because they see our trainer spending literally night and day with this child and feel as if they are less important because of it.
> 
> Another concern is that this is an event in which their daughter could potentially be injured and NO ONE has power of attorney to make medical decisions for her. Her parents say "Oh, we gave the trainer an insurance card".
> 
> So essentially, other than her show fees, everyone else is absorbing the costs financially and in our show performances because of this one child's parents being absent. We have all said something to our trainer and she says she has told the parents (I personally have said something to the parents myself as we are casual friends outside of this) and the parents seem oblivious and say "Well, our old trainer did everything for us". Well, their old trainer only had one other client for a reason and it's because the old trainer is terrible. That's why they found a new trainer.
> 
> The trainer says that she feels bad for the little girl and even though she's spoken to the parents, she doesn't want them to take her from this child because they've bonded.
> 
> Are we all being too touchy or does our trainer need to step up and tell the parents that one of them MUST be present at ALL shows for the entirety of the show??? This way everyone is being treated equal and our trainer has more time to focus on her entire crew instead of one. Our child has told our trainer that she pays more attention to this one child and that the shows are always about this one little girl. We are seriously on the verge of taking our child and horses to another trainer and I know that others feel the same way about finding a new trainer.
> 
> Need serious feedback on this situation. It is at a point that a decision has to be made one way or another. We love our trainer and want to stay with her, but not at the detriment of our childs performance. We have entirely too much money invested to watch our child be thrown by the wayside in favor of another child, just because her parents can't be parents.



I just want to play devil's advocate....have you ever thought that perhaps this child wants to be around horses so badly that she will do anything to do what she has a passion for? Maybe her parents just aren't that into horses? Or perhaps they don't understand horses like you and everyone else? Maybe they can't afford a ready made horse for their child to win at shows so they do what they can to help their daughter? 

What if this is the only way the child is around horses at all? I guess I see the frustration you are feeling but yet, what if this keeps this child out of drugs or other bad things that befall children now a days? Maybe this is the only attention this child gets is from the trainer and being around horses, who love unconditionally? 

Sorry if this has already been answered or I am over stepping my bounds....I personally, as a mother, a horsewoman, and a grandmother, take the child aside and talk to her instead of complaining that MY child wasn't getting all the attention.....never know what is really going on.


----------



## gypsygirl

I'm glad you are looking for a new trainer op! The other girl really doesn't factor into your situation, you are paying the trainer for a service you are not receiving. End of story! Good luck finding another trainer, have the other clients found one yet?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## luvmydrafts

If this already got worked out, glad it did...if not...only thing i have to say here to try and help is this...the trainer either has to give the parents an ultimatum that they have to do X, Y and/or Z in order for their child to stay in the programme...or, trainer has to just suck it up and deal with it...so does everyone else...the participation of the parents is either a requirement or it isnt...when you are setting policy down, "should" is not a policy, and you cannot blame someone for not adhering to a policy that does not exist...my personal experience is "unwritten rules" REALLY annoy me, like frustrate me like nothing else...and it is not fair to expect someone to come into the group to automatically know what is expected of them if it is not written down or explained prior as requirement... my words to trainer is either make it a requirement or do not complain about something you do not need to subject yourself to...it is the trainer's programme and their responsibility and choice...i bet those parents never dreamt they would be expected to do all this, they were signing their kid up for the classes, not themselves  if the parents are oblivious then something fell through the cracks and that is on the trainer, not them... i know it must be frustrating seeig this happen and it is out of your hands but i would probably find another trainer as it does not sound like yours is about to do anything about the situation...either that or give your trainer an ultimatum saying if this does not stop you will be finding another... good luck with all this and i hope it works out!!


----------

