# Horse Meat...would you eat it?



## blush (Feb 10, 2007)

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Boycott-Presidents-Choice-for-Supporting-Horse-Meat/216865101666725

https://www.facebook.com/boycotthorsemeat

Food Network Canada – Reality Check Required! | Canadian Horse Defence Coalition's Blog

There has recently been a huge controversy on horse meat caused by an episode of Canada's Top Chef featuring the preperation and eating of horse meat. Tons of people (not just horsie people) were outraged about this as horse is not a "meal" in general North America and rioted hard to stop the episode from airing. The episode did end up airing and as a result of this, President's Choice (a large food company out of Extra Foods, No Frills, Superstore) starting selling and advocating the buying of horse meat. :shock: Anybody else hear of this??


Now I personally found this controversy so interesting (mainly because I'm a horse nut haha) and decided to research, report and study the human consumption of horse meat for one of my university research classes. I found a crazy amount of information and I really think what I found will shock you guys! I do want to get some of your opinions and use it in my research paper (if that's okay of course!) so I want to see what you guys think of eating horse meat before I share my research and viewpoint on it. 


So before I share what I found...would you eat horse meat if given the chance?


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I think I would try it if given the chance.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Darn right I would, maybe not today, and maybe not by choice, but if it was the only meat that I could afford, or was available to me, sure I would eat it.

I have nothing against those who choose to eat horse meat, I choose to eat both pig and cow, and I know that offends a lot of people in the world, so it would be hypocritical of me to dictate what other eat.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

There was a thread on this about a year ago that i created. Here it is
Would you eat a horse?


I want to try horse meat. I like to keep things in perspective


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

I recently found out that horse meat, like crustaceans, pork, rabbit, & other kinds of flesh, is not kosher, according to God's directives in the Old Testament. So, I've gone from "only if starving" to "maybe if starving" .


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

I have met a number of horses I would rather eat than ride. Just saying....


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I grew up in EU and I have eaten horsemeat as a child. Not my favorite meat, but then again, neither is rabbit.


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## pintophile (May 18, 2011)

Without a doubt yes.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

People eat beef, lamb, pork, etc. I don't think horse much different.

I voted No BTW, because I've heard (from those who tried) that horse is not very tasty.


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## christabelle (Feb 13, 2011)

Allison Finch said:


> I have met a number of horses I would rather eat than ride. Just saying....


Ah ha ha ha ha! That is great!

But, I would not eat it except if it was eat horse or starve. Not that I want to stop others from doing it... I would not eat dog just for the heck of it either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Walkamile (Dec 29, 2008)

kitten_Val said:


> People eat beef, lamb, pork, etc. I don't think horse much different.
> 
> I voted No BTW, because I've heard (from those who tried) that horse is not very tasty.



KV , my MIL, who is from Germany, LOVES horse meat and tells me so every time she looks at my horses! :shock:

I personally am not even curious to try it, but I don't have any issues with other people eating it.......except my MIL! LOL!


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I have. I was in France and I ordered a burger. It came thick and round with a fried egg on it. I didn't know it was horse meat until after I had eaten a couple bites. The texture was different so I asked the waitress what it was and she told me. I ended up eating the egg and the gravy fries and leaving the rest of the meat. It was a little traumatic for me but truthfully, they eat horse meat in Europe. Not a big deal for them...


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

I definitely would, why not? i like cows, pigs, chickens (heck i love chickens)...... but i like eating them to. Might as well, its already dead and packed up just sitting there waiting for me to try it.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I have eaten horse and while I would eat it if that's all I could afford or if it was all that was available to me. Other than that, I'll stick to beef because I just didn't like the flavor of the horse meat.

Some people in ?India? view cows as sacred, but you don't see them picketing in front of the supermarkets that sell beef. IMHO, if people want to eat horse meat, then power to them. I won't eat it again unless there is just no other option. I would go out and illegally shoot a deer or turkey before I'd eat horse because they taste better LOL.


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

kitten_Val said:


> People eat beef, lamb, pork, etc. I don't think horse much different.
> 
> I voted No BTW, because I've heard (from those who tried) that horse is not very tasty.


lol, i'd imagine not...doesn't meat get tougher and less flavorful with the age of the animal? 
I voted yes. Honestly, I prefer not to eat any meat at all...but the aversion to eating horse is a cultural thing. It seems kind of ...ethnocentric to demonize it the way some people tend to.


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## sommsama09 (Oct 28, 2010)

Never.. I'd rather starve to death - i don't care if you think im nuts... im not eating the one thing i love and would give my life for.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Walkamile said:


> KV , my MIL, who is from Germany, LOVES horse meat and tells me so every time she looks at my horses! :shock:


Lol! I guess depends on taste, huh. I've talked to some people in Europe/Asia and they were not impressed. I guess I'll just trust them on it without trying.

What I can't imagine trying though is cat or dog.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

farmpony84 said:


> I have. I was in France and I ordered a burger. It came thick and round with a fried egg on it. I didn't know it was horse meat until after I had eaten a couple bites. The texture was different so I asked the waitress what it was and she told me. I ended up eating the egg and the gravy fries and leaving the rest of the meat. It was a little traumatic for me but truthfully, they eat horse meat in Europe. Not a big deal for them...


I tried gator once... It did smell quite bad... Don't think I want to try it again.

In Korea I tried to avoid asking what I'm eating. Lol! (although I knew for sure not dogs - we only went to cheapy places with fish and alike, from what I read dog meat is quite expensive down there).


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## Walkamile (Dec 29, 2008)

KV, you are much more adventurous than I! The most "exotic" meat I've eaten is moose, and it was delicious. I preferred it to venison.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

I'd try it, if I knew for sure that it was safe to consume it.

I don't treat my cows or pigs with any less care than my horse and I will be consuming them. They're all animals, I spoil all of them rotten, I just bought the cows and pigs for dinner and the horse for riding.


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## Paintlover1965 (May 22, 2009)

I couldn't even imagine eating a horse. I guess it's just the principle of the thing. I'm not a vegetarian or anything but I have seen several horses go to slaughter and no matter what the reason for that I find it difficult to think that if I buy horse meat I might be consuming some poor unfortunate soul who may have just needed someone's love and their end might not have been necessary.


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

Nope. The issue is not about which animals are stupider and therefor OK to eat. The issue is food animal vs. non-food animal. 

Here in the US, horses are not food animals. We keep them as pets, just like cats and dogs. Even if I went to a foreign country, I wouldn't eat horse meat. Number one, it's a delicacy and one of the most expensive meats you can buy. Number two, you have no clue where it came from. Horses are not raised like cattle and pigs. You don't know what kind of vaccines, dewormers, or other drugs the animals had prior to being slaughtered.

And mostly because horse slaughter makes me sick and I couldn't live with the idea of eating something that used to be someone's pet. 

I also understand that humans are omnivores, but that doesn't mean we have to eat everything that moves.


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## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

I'd have to be starving. Not interested in eating horse meat but I also don't want to eat any wild game. I have ate wild game before...quail, deer, elk. Honey Darling Precious is not much of a hunter anymore so we don't have wild game in the freezer. My grandpa and uncles weren't hunters - my grandparents were from The Cayman Islands and I grew up eating seafood that grandpa caught - not wild game. Grandma raised all kinds of animals - pigs, chickens, turkeys, goats, cows....she didn't have a problem hugging them up and then happily cooking and eating them!!!


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## kathryn (Jan 16, 2009)

I think I would politely decline, but I wouldn't raise a fuss if it was served somewhere I was at. I also have no desire to ever eat dogs or guinea pigs, because all have been pets to me.


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## sommsama09 (Oct 28, 2010)

Paintlover1965 said:


> I couldn't even imagine eating a horse. I guess it's just the principle of the thing. I'm not a vegetarian or anything but I have seen several horses go to slaughter and no matter what the reason for that I find it difficult to think that if I buy horse meat I might be consuming some poor unfortunate soul who may have just needed someone's love and their end might not have been necessary.


 That's exacly how I feel.  Hated it when I went to a horse auction..... felt sick and a hopless bystander - got strict orders as to no buying horses.... :-(


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## gaelgirl (Mar 3, 2011)

Heck, I eat so much salami, hot dogs, sausage etc. that I've probably had some horse in there along the line. I would probably try it if it was offered, but I would by no means go out and find it for myself. My mom ate it once, and she didn't like it.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Walkamile said:


> KV, you are much more adventurous than I! The most "exotic" meat I've eaten is moose, and it was delicious. I preferred it to venison.


I tried moose too long time ago. All I remember I liked it.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Delfina said:


> I don't treat my cows or pigs with any less care than my horse and I will be consuming them. They're all animals, I spoil all of them rotten, I just bought the cows and pigs for dinner and the horse for riding.


Exactly. 

Besides many people keep cows or pigs or goats as pets, and still have no problem to buy and eat the meat. I'm thinking about getting a goat at some point. If I do I definitely won't stop eating goat curry in Indian restaurant close to my work. :lol:


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## BCtazzie (Jun 7, 2011)

I have eaten horse a few times. it's a bit sweeter then venison . I like it with a dry rub on the bbq. 

I've eaten is as steak and salami. I like the steak better.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

kitten_Val said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Besides many people keep cows or pigs or goats as pets, and still have no problem to buy and eat the meat. I'm thinking about getting a goat at some point. If I do I definitely won't stop eating goat curry in Indian restaurant close to my work. :lol:


I've got a couple goats that have been told repeatedly that if they run through my house one more time that their name will be STEW!

All of my animals have warm, dry, cozy shelters, unlimited, clean, heated, drinking water and are fed appropriately. Sir Loin is loved just as much as Maggie even though he is *dinner* and she's the *mother of future dinner*, they both come running when they see me (wonder if the grain bucket has anything to do with that... :wink Wilbur and Porky have happy little piggy lives, they have a couple acres to root around in, cows, goats and chickens to visit and lots of fences to mangle and escape from (their latest favorite pastime). 

My neighbors tell me constantly how I take better care of my *food* than most people do their pets. Am I going to feel sad when they make a trip to the butcher? Nah.... what on earth would I do with a 300lb pig who is now constantly trying to chew on my boots? It's only a matter of time before he's trying to chew on ME! :shock:


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## sommsama09 (Oct 28, 2010)

gaelgirl said:


> Heck, I eat so much salami, hot dogs, sausage etc. that I've probably had some horse in there along the line. I would probably try it if it was offered, but I would by no means go out and find it for myself. My mom ate it once, and she didn't like it.


 Oh god... please tell me they arent in salami in aussie or Don Kabana.... :'( PLEASE someone find out and TELL me.. :'((


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

OP, Ill be honest, I voted No. 

Not that I have anything against people that have, do , or want to try it. I just personally wouldnt eat it....but then again, I am a VERY picky eater so 

Interested to see what you have found through your research!


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

Allison Finch said:


> I have met a number of horses I would rather eat than ride. Just saying....


Me too. There have been a lot of days I've threatened to put Woodstock on my dinner plate...he'd probably be rancid though :lol:

I'd try it once just to see what it was like or if it was an issue of starve or eat horse, I'd not be above it. Though there are many things I'd eat first, like smrobs said, I'd be hunting (even if it had to be illegally) and eating venison, pheasant, quail, rabbit, etc before I'd eat horse.


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## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

I really had to vote not sure. I have no problem with people eating horse (I have a problem from how the meat is produced in most places, it just doesn't seem consumer safe from the information I've gathered), but it's a personal weakness of preference. If I had been raised eating horse it wouldn't be a problem, I had pet chickens for many years (loved them to death and even did shows) and still ate chicken.

But I know what it's like to be poor, and if horse meat did become cheaper and readily available (and safer), and it was on sale next to the beef well then my pocket talks louder than my stomach :lol:


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## SarahAnn (Oct 22, 2011)

This is a tough one. I always say I will try something once, so I suppose, if given the chance I would try it. My issue is that, far too often horses are sent off to the meat factory. Whether it be for dog food, people food, or glue... I don't agree with it, and by eating it, I would support that type of business. So I would not continue to eat it, even if it turned out to be fantastic, because I don't want to support that kind of treatment of horses. It's like buying products that aren't tested on animals. Even if a product is super fantastic, I wont buy it because I don't like that chemicals are put into rabbits eyes and such. And I don't like to support that kind of inhumane treatment of animals. I think products should be tested on prisoners serving life sentences. 

I also, know that there is a fine line between animals intended to be eaten and those intended to be pets. I grew up on a farm where my parents raised pigs, meat chickens, turkeys, and egg laying hens... I was always warned not to develop relationships with the animals because they were not pets.... (I always did, and was always heart broken when they went off to slaughter... and I always ate them, still do.) So whats the difference? I don't really know... except that retired race horses and unwanted former pets go to slaughter, not just horses intended to be eaten. 

I resolved nothing by rambling on and on... and it's still a tough one for me. hmf.


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

I have no desire to try it. As other have mentioned, in a bad enough situation, of course I would. I think in a desperate enough situation where all other possibilities had been exhausted, I would feed my family any kind of animal...horses, dogs and cats included.


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## Arksly (Mar 13, 2010)

Delfina said:


> It's only a matter of time before he's trying to chew on ME! :shock:


 
Bacon's revenge??? :lol:


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I think I'd try one mouthful from someone else's plate, just so that I have tried it but I don't think I'd order a meal of it myself. 
I am not against horse slaughter, but with so many other meats out there, I just don't really feel the need to have a horse steak.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

I voted yes!
I'm a meat eater. The only thing I don't agree with is how a horse is slaughtered. If they were slaughtered in a more humane manner, I'd gladly have it as part of my Sunday roast. 
I've eaten donkey salami too... was rather tasty!


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

Id be a vegitarian if meat wasnt so tasty, My job also makes it hard not to eat meat. I am pretty much subject to what the boat has for two weeks at a time.
The entire meat industry alarms me. The sanitation, the treatment, and the chemicals.
My free range, (real not the BS government definition) chickens at 6 months old are still running around "peeping" factory chickens are so full of drugs they are full grown in half that.
Guess I am would eat them or my horse if I was starving. I do buy chicken, beef and pork, I couldnt ever raise and eat one. Dont think I could kill and eat something I have named and cared for.


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## BarrelRacer23 (Aug 17, 2011)

Yes. People keep cows, pigs, chickens and other animals as food too. As long as its not mine I wont be picky.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

sandy2u1 said:


> I have no desire to try it. As other have mentioned, in a bad enough situation, of course I would. I think in a desperate enough situation where all other possibilities had been exhausted, I would feed my family any kind of animal...horses, dogs and cats included.


This is realistic. People will eat what they need to survive. People have even been known to eat each other. Don't get me wrong, _I'm not comparing eating meat to cannibalism! _What I am saying is that for the sake of survival, I think a lot of us would eat things we'd ordinarily find distasteful. 
I myself flirt with vegetarianism, as I find that I'm almost never hungry enough to justify something dying. I feel that we should be able to watch or participate at least once(!) in the process of death that gives us food. You can't stand to kill it, but you can eat it? Doesn't seem right... Anyway, I do eat meat sometimes, and I'd probably eat horse to try it, but I wouldn't SEEK it.

Edit: Just wanted to say, there's a family story from my mom's side: During the Depression, my great grandma would go to the park and feed all the city pigeons there, until they were friendly enough with her that they'd come right up to her and she could touch them. One day, she put them all in a sack and took them home, and that's how my family had Christmas Dinner that year. City pigeon...Blech!!!!


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## blush (Feb 10, 2007)

Wow, everybody's responses are great! I'm glad to see such varied opinions, and everybody has good resoning to back up what they think. 

I am however, personally surprised by how many people are willing to try horse meat if given the chance! I'm assuming that many people really don't know much about the meat, so my research will probably shock a lot of you haha.

Now, what I'm going to post isn't my opinion. It's simply just the medical research I found and was verified and approved by my sociobiology proffesor, developmental psychologist professor and the head of my psychologist department. So basically what I'm showing you guys is *fact and real research*, not just a bunch of stuff I found of wikipedia. Read it if you're intrested and I suggest you do...those who said you'd eat horse meat should really re-evaluate thier choice. 

Here are exerpts from my paper, as the whole thing is about 24 pages long haha. 


"As supported by extensive research, horse meat is both dangerous and ethically inappropriate for people to consume regardless if the meat was obtained legally or illegally. Medical practitioners and veterinarians both agree that the health risk is not worth consuming the meat, as the presence of Phenylbutazone or Bute in 100% of all horses is considered toxic to humans."

"This report investigates the dangers of horse meat manufactured legally and illegally for human consumption and exhibits alternatives to consuming horse meat.
*Health Dangers to Humans Found in Horse Meat*​​As the horse meat industry develops in Canada and overseas, new research into the medical dangers presented in consuming horse meat has been displayed by the media, medical practitioners and kill buyers. There are many substances found in horses deemed for slaughter and human consumption that are toxic to humans. Horses slaughtered for meat are usually of unknown origin and often done so illegally, therefore it is a constant risk for anybody to consume any horse meat."

"For this report, research from medical practitioners, organizations set in place to protect horses, and newspaper articles contribute to the issue of whether horse meat is safe for humans to consume. It was concluded through all reports that horse meat is not only ethically questionable but also poses a health risk if eaten by humans."

"The consumption of horse meat has been primarily an ethical issue rather than a health issue for the past few decades. People have constantly viewed horses as royal and noble animals, companions and athletes, therefor providing it hard for people to see them served on dinner menus. Unlike cattle and other livestock, horses are not bred for slaughter and human consumption but rather for pets and athletes. Recently, the topic of horse meat has made its way back into mainstream culture when an episode of “Top Chef Canada” aired, presenting a challenge of cooking with all Canadian horse meat. In the past few decades, an abundant amount of research has been produced about the dangers of horse meat consumption; to answer the question if horse meat is indeed dangerous to humans or just ethically questionable. 
​*METHODS*
 In this report, there were several methods used to determine whether the legal or illegal manufacturing of horse meat used for human consumption is dangerous to eat. Several articles from newspapers and books were used when investigating this issue as well as documents written by medical practitioners, vets and health advisors. "​​"According to the International Fund for Horses, the majority of people are not aware of the health risks associated with consuming horse meat. Horse are not considered livestock such as cows, pigs, chicken and turkey, and are therefore not bred for their meat but rather for sport or companionship. They are not fed the same assortment of forage an animal would if it was bred for food and the standards that beef, pork or chicken must pass do not apply to horse meat. Approximately 85% of horse meat consumed by humans arises from illegal slaughter and of unknown origin, making it impossible to determine what exactly is found the horse meat such as medications and disease. ​
​Most horses that end up in slaughter houses and processed for human consumption are ex-racehorses, show jumpers, western horses, broodmares, and pets. The most common reasons these equines are slaughtered are that they suffered an injury that ended their career, they were unknowingly sold to a kill buyer and they were stolen and sold to a slaughter house for money. Very few, approximately 2% of horses, are bred by accident and directed to a slaughter horse intentionally. The other 98% of horses found in slaughterhouses that were raised and trained with the upmost care have most undoubtedly been treated with a variety of medication from the time they were a foal into their adult years. ​The most common medication found in *100%* of horses is a form of anti-inflammatory called Phenylbutazone or Bute given for a variety of reasons such as lameness, muscle strain, fever, cuts and suspensory pulls. This drug which can be administered by a vet, remains in the horse’s system for the rest of its life by being stored in fat cells and muscle tissue. On the package of this particular drug, it clearly states “Do not administer this drug (Phenylbutazone) to horses being manufactured for human consumption”. (SuperiorBute Oral Gel) Bute contains this warning as the drug acts as carcinogenic to humans and through extensive research, is linked to causing cancer when the meat is consumed by the public. According to a new paper in the journal Food & Chemical Toxicology, humans who eat horse meat are at a high risk for poisoning by Phenylbutazone or "Bute." When investigating the effects Bute has on humans, it is found that it causes serious and lethal idiosyncratic adverse effects, birth defects, miscarriages, various cancers, and liver/kidney failure. Therefore, those who ingest horse meat are exposed to any number of these horrible consequences Bute has to offer.​​
_“_Horse meat is *TOXIC *to humans. All U.S. horses shipped to slaughter are ex-pets, race horses, camp ponies, and show horses. They have all been given vaccinations, de-wormers and Phenylbutazone (Bute). *ALL *domestic horses in the U.S. have received this drug”​​- http://horsehaventn.org/horse-slaughter/​​"*120,000* horses are slaughtered in Mexico and Canada for human consumption annually even though only *16% *of the world's entire population eat horse meat, with Canadians consuming only 3%. ​​Horses are one of the very few large domesticated animals that are NOT bred for food. There are no known farms in Canada and Mexico, since the United States has banned the slaughtering of horses, that strictly breed, raise and treat equines for human consumption. Cattle, pigs and chickens are solely raised to become meat and are fed accordingly. The more a farmer feeds his or her cattle, the bulkier and more meaty it gets. The more a famer feeds his or her horse, the muscle content and “bulkiness” remains the same. Along with the ethical issues surrounding equine meat, horses simply are not logical or financial choices for red meat production."​​"As found through extensive research and the questionnaire distributed, horse meat is found dangerous for human consumption regardless if the meat was obtained legally or illegally. ​
 Many veterinarians conclude that the presence of Bute in 100% of horses found in Canada, United States and Mexico is extremely toxic for humans who consume the meat. Articles written through organizations determine that not only medications found in horses that remain in their system for a lifetime pose a threat to human health, but certain diseases horses have had affect the toxicity of the meat as well. An auto-immune disease called Strangles affect the horse’s nervous system and cell development and therefore cause the meat to contain mutated cells throughout the body. The meat of the horse is now extremely contaminated, yet slaughter houses still sell the meat for human consumption. It is found that consuming horse meat is simply not worth the health risk, as only 16% of the world's entire population eat this equine delicacy."​​Some references:​1. Horse Slaughter | Horse Haven of Tennessee​2. http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/livestock/horses/facts/info_pheny.htm​3. http://www.horsefund.org/horse-slaughter-fact-sheet.php​4. Erbe, B. (2010). Erbe: This Reason Not to Eat Horses Is a 'Bute'. U.S. News Digital Weekly, 2(14), 18. Retrieved​
 from EBSCOhost​5. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2034431/​​​​​​​​


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

DuffyDuck said:


> I voted yes!
> I'm a meat eater. The only thing I don't agree with is how a horse is slaughtered. If they were slaughtered in a more humane manner, I'd gladly have it as part of my Sunday roast.
> I've eaten donkey salami too... was rather tasty!


What aspect of the slaughter do you not agree with?


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

blush said:


> _“_Horse meat is *TOXIC *to humans. All U.S. horses shipped to slaughter are ex-pets, race horses, camp ponies, and show horses. They have all been given vaccinations, de-wormers and Phenylbutazone (Bute). *ALL *domestic horses in the U.S. have received this drug”
> - http://horsehaventn.org/horse-slaughter/​
> ​


Misleading...this is for North American Horses raised as PETS (or otherwise not for consumption.
What about horses in other places, who are raised for consumption, or otherwise not given bute or deworming products? 
Or does something else make their meat toxic in that case?

Edit: Looked up Phenylbutazone (bad habit from taking a lot of organic chemistry). It used to be used in humans...the problem with it, is that its metabolites can cause the bone marrow not to produce red blood cells appropriately in humans.

"Use in horses is limited to horses which are not intended for food. Metabolites of phenylbutazone can cause aplastic anaemia in humans.[6][7]" (per wiki)


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Someone will need to explain this for me



> The most common medication found in *100%* of horses is a form of anti-inflammatory called Phenylbutazone or Bute


Found in 100% of horses????? I call







on that, which leads me to question everything said.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Approximately 85% of horse meat consumed by humans arises from illegal slaughter and of unknown origin, making it impossible to determine what exactly is found the horse meat such as medications and disease. 


*This is just not true. There is not much of a black market for horse meat. Further down in the propaganda it states that 120,000 horses are slaughtered each year. 85% of 120,000 is 102,000. I don't think that 102,000 horses are slaughtered illegaly every year so which statistic is wrong?*​ 

The most common reasons these equines are slaughtered are that they suffered an injury that ended their career, they were unknowingly sold to a kill buyer and they were stolen and sold to a slaughter house for money. Very few, approximately 2% of horses, are bred by accident and directed to a slaughter horse intentionally. The other 98% of horses found in slaughterhouses that were raised and trained with the upmost care have most undoubtedly been treated with a variety of medication from the time they were a foal into their adult years. 


*Aside from the spelling and grammatical errors, how would a researcher know why the horse was sold for slaughter? I've been to many auctions that sell horses by the pound and I've never seen anyone conducting exit polling of the people or the horses. Very few horses are stolen because there is a lot of risk and very little gain. Why risk going to jail for stealing something that you can get for free many times? *

The more a farmer feeds his or her cattle, the bulkier and more meaty it gets. 


*This is perhaps the saddest "fact" in this whole propaganda article. Cattle only get "bulkier and more meaty" until they reach maturity. After maturity they only get fatter. Incidently, the same thing happens to horses and every other warm-blooded mammal including humans.*


*If your professors actually approved this as research versus opinion then you need to seriously reconsider the value of your education.*

*Where are the peer review scientific studies? Where is the dissenting information? Surely not EVERY scientist, vetrinarian and doctor believes this.*


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

blush said:


> Wow, everybody's responses are great! I'm glad to see such varied opinions, and everybody has good resoning to back up what they think.
> 
> I am however, personally surprised by how many people are willing to try horse meat if given the chance! I'm assuming that many people really don't know much about the meat, so my research will probably shock a lot of you haha.
> 
> ...


I quit reading after the first lie in your paper, Which was actually only the second sentence. Bute is NOT in 100% of all horses. State your case but resorting to false and misleading statements especially in the first paragraph pretty much ruins any credibility the rest of the paper may have. Say all the horses at X house or all tested horses had it fine, but there are plenty of horses and aI am sure many horses owned by people on this websight that have raised them since birth that know for a fact their horses have never had bute.


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## blush (Feb 10, 2007)

demonwolfmoon said:


> Misleading...this is for North American Horses raised as PETS (or otherwise not for consumption.
> What about horses in other places, who are raised for consumption, or otherwise not given bute or deworming products?
> Or does something else make their meat toxic in that case?
> 
> ...


Ackkkk sorry it might have helped if I had mentioned my research only covered North America. Haha, I don't have the time to research the rest of the world!

And in North America, there are no known horses bred for human consumption. All horses used for meat come from general slaughterhouses and are/were raised as pets. I'm not sure about Europe or the other side of the world, they may very well raise horses like pig or cattle. I worked vert closely with multiple equine vet clinics around my area (some working in the illegal slaughter industry), saying that roughly 99.9% of horses found in these North American slaugher houses have bute found in them. And these horses are usually sent overseas to China and parts of Europe, as the horse meat market in Canada is 3% and worldwide is 16%.

On a side note, wikipedia is not a realiable source as it can be edited by anybody. It's great for a starting point but no actual research can be determined by it. Hence why you aren't allowed to use it in Universities haha.


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## blush (Feb 10, 2007)

And as I stated, this in NOT my opinion. This is simply what I found, what my profs have found and what is avaliable through my research. Look up this on google scholar, you'll find a lot of what I'm saying is found in articles on there. Did any of you actually read some fo the references or actually done any extensive research on this topic yourselves?


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## 2BigReds (Oct 7, 2011)

Golden Horse said:


> Found in 100% of horses????? I call
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah I was thinking the same thing... Sure, many, probably even most horses have been given Bute, but if a horse has been perfectly healthy all of their life then there would be little or no need for Bute or any other medications (aside from vaccines/worming).

Are you certain that the study worded it that way? I'm thinking "100% of the horse meat samples tested were Bute contaminated" is much more likely, especially if the sample pool was fairly small. Taking a look at some of those sources in a sec...


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

kevinshorses said:


> *If your professors actually approved this as research versus opinion then you need to seriously reconsider the value of your education.*
> 
> *Where are the peer review scientific studies? Where is the dissenting information? Surely not EVERY scientist, vetrinarian and doctor believes this.*


+1. We are told in college that we must check the reliability of our sources. This is to say that no only are we told not to use wiki, we are not to quote as fact sites which have an obvious agenda. If you look at the report above, the site used to support the toxicity of horse meat due to bute, it is a rescue site. That may indicate some bias....


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

1. Horse Slaughter | Horse Haven of Tennessee
2. http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/livestock/horses/facts/info_pheny.htm
3. http://www.horsefund.org/horse-slaughter-fact-sheet.php
4. Erbe, B. (2010). Erbe: This Reason Not to Eat Horses Is a 'Bute'. U.S. News Digital Weekly, 2(14), 18. Retrieved​


Do you seriously think that any of these "sources" are unbiased or impartial? If you do then you need to look upp the definition of the words unbiased and impartial. Try wikipedia.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

blush said:


> "As supported by extensive research, horse meat is both dangerous and* ethically inappropriate* for people to consume regardless if the meat was obtained legally or illegally.


_Whose_ 'extensive research'? The part I bolded above sure as heck sounds like AR propaganda. :?

Give me articles that come from AMA certified as well as scientific journals, and I'd be more inclined to believe you. The only sources you linked were hardly unbiased.


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## blush (Feb 10, 2007)

And honestly, if you guys come across facts that dispute what I have found I am very happy to add that to my paper. This is NOT my personal opinion, I am in favor of horse slaughter but after what I found about the toxcitity of horse meat, I am not in favor of eating it! Please come back with scholarly facts/articles, I'd love to add other insights into my paper about this controversy!


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Find the articles yourself. You're the scholar use your mind.


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## blush (Feb 10, 2007)

I'm really not hear to say that my paper is right! I'm still in the process of completing it and wanted opinions and insights into this! I'm not trying to make a case of "he's wrong, she's wrong" I'm just showing you guys what I found! I'm not saying it's law or nessicarily all true! Just what I found! Eekkk, stop biting my head off, this isn't my personal opinion nor nessicarily the truth! Hence why I wanted to ask your guy's opinion on this!


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

blush said:


> I'm really not hear to say that my paper is right! I'm still in the process of completing it and wanted opinions and insights into this! I'm not trying to make a case of "he's wrong, she's wrong" I'm just showing you guys what I found! I'm not saying it's law or nessicarily all true! Just what I found! Eekkk, stop biting my head off, this isn't my personal opinion nor nessicarily the truth! Hence why I wanted to ask your guy's opinion on this!


Opinion: Your paper is biased. 
If your paper is an ethics paper, it *may* slide, but I doubt it. 
You MUST MUST MUST use peer reviewed articles in any decent scholarly work, especially the scientists. 
You are allowed to have an opinion! But it must be an opinion based on evidence. At my college, we *must* take higher level statistics courses...why? because we must be able to tell...when the stats are flawed, mistakenly or on purpose. Which is to say, you can't just throw a number out there and make it valid. You must have supporting facts.


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

blush said:


> Ackkkk sorry it might have helped if I had mentioned my research only covered North America. Haha, I don't have the time to research the rest of the world!
> 
> And in North America, there are no known horses bred for human consumption. All horses used for meat come from general slaughterhouses and are/were raised as pets. I'm not sure about Europe or the other side of the world, they may very well raise horses like pig or cattle. I worked vert closely with multiple equine vet clinics around my area (some working in the illegal slaughter industry), saying that roughly 99.9% of horses found in these North American slaugher houses have bute found in them. And these horses are usually sent overseas to China and parts of Europe, as the horse meat market in Canada is 3% and worldwide is 16%.
> 
> On a side note, wikipedia is not a realiable source as it can be edited by anybody. It's great for a starting point but no actual research can be determined by it. Hence why you aren't allowed to use it in Universities haha.


I know. Again, lots of Organic chem. But yes, I am looking it up through my library website to find you some research. =D In fact...thanks..I'm going to use this subject for my final paper this term, I think...just as soon as I make a proper stance on it, through my own research =)


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## blush (Feb 10, 2007)

demonwolfmoon said:


> Opinion: Your paper is biased.
> If your paper is an ethics paper, it *may* slide, but I doubt it.
> You MUST MUST MUST use peer reviewed articles in any decent scholarly work, especially the scientists.
> You are allowed to have an opinion! But it must be an opinion based on evidence. At my college, we *must* take higher level statistics courses...why? because we must be able to tell...when the stats are flawed, mistakenly or on purpose. Which is to say, you can't just throw a number out there and make it valid. You must have supporting facts.


Thank you for actually giving me constructive feedback! Yes, my paper is intended as an ethics paper. No, it is not fully completed and I have only fully studied what I mainly found about this issue (saying it's toxic etc). I'm only about 24/65 pages done it! This is why I came to you guys, not be bashed about how wrong my paper is or how wrong I am...like I said this really isn't stating my opinion on the matter, just what I have found from the vet's around my area and articles on google scholar as well in my university's library. 

I'm MORE THAN HAPPY to research the other aspects of this, I just wasn't aware of them! Like jeez, I'm not sure why everyone is jumping down my throat, like I said my paper ISNT THE LAW.


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

"The objective of this study was to compare the chemical composition and physicochemical quality of the *meat* of mature slaughter *horses* (73 mares and 58 geldings) sampled from the longissimus dorsi (longissimus lumborum section [LL]) and semitendinosus (ST) muscles. The LL muscle was characterized by significantly lower values of electrical conductivity, temperature and shear force; however, it showed a significantly higher water-holding capacity. *Meat* from the LL muscle showed a significantly higher intramuscular fat (IMF) content, and as a result, higher calories, but contained less water and protein than the ST muscle. Along with the increasing marbling level, the IMF content in the LL muscle increased from 2.79 up to 13.30%, whereas in the ST muscle, from 2.80 up to 6.45%. Generally, a higher *meat* marbling goes together with a decrease of water and protein contents as well as an increase of a protein/fat ratio. PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS On the basis of the obtained results, it was stated that the chemical composition and physicochemical quality of mature *horses*' *meat* was similar to some other species of red *meat*. Therefore, the *horse* flesh could be a valuable substitute of culinary *meat*, especially beef. The high dressing percentages reflected the *horses*' usefulness for *meat* production. Moreover, considering a slight number of defects occurring in *horse* *meat* (i.e. DFD or PSE), chevaline could be more widely used in the *meat* industry, in raw or processed form, as a suitable food for human consumption. [ABSTRACT FROM AUTHOR]"
Z. LITWIŃCZUK, et al. "Chemical Composition And Physicochemical Properties Of Horse Meat From The Longissimus Lumborum And Semitendinosus Muscle." _Journal Of Muscle Foods_ 19.3 (2008): 223-236. _Academic Search Complete_. Web. 4 Nov. 2011.

Vancouver/ICMJEReferences
LITWIŃCZUK A, FLOREK M, SKAŁECKI P, LITWIŃCZUK Z. CHEMICAL COMPOSITION AND PHYSICOCHEMICAL PROPERTIES OF HORSE MEAT FROM THE LONGISSIMUS LUMBORUM AND SEMITENDINOSUS MUSCLE. Journal Of Muscle Foods [serial on the Internet]. (2008, July), [cited November 4, 2011]; 19(3): 223-236. Available from: Academic Search Complete.

*http://[email protected]&bdata=JnNpdGU9ZWRzLWxpdmU=#*


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

blush said:


> This isn't my personal opinion nor necessarily the truth! Hence why I wanted to ask your guy's opinion on this!


You stated that your paper was already at 24 pages, so what else are we to think when you post that kind of propaganda as 'truth'?

If you're seeking the actual _truth_ and not just what you find out there on the interwebz from the AR groups, you need to do a lot more work in digging up reputable, peer reviewed sources.

This is YOUR paper, not ours. YOU need to do the legwork, not expect other people to do it for you.

I can tell you that a paper like yours with all it's skewed 'statistics' won't fly in college. You'll be asked to provide your references, and if all you can come up with are ones that are heavily slanted one way or the other, don't expect a good grade.


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## blush (Feb 10, 2007)

kevinshorses said:


> 1. Horse Slaughter | Horse Haven of Tennessee
> 
> 2. http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/livestock/horses/facts/info_pheny.htm
> 3. http://www.horsefund.org/horse-slaughter-fact-sheet.php
> ...


Really? I'm pretty sure the second one is pretty darn unbiased. The 2nd one is an article from the province of Ontario, who has no biased stance on horse slaughter or the consuming of horse meat. It's government approved. Plus I cant really add my local vet references since it really has no meaning to you guys anyways.


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

*Evaluating Bias for Citation*



blush said:


> Really? I'm pretty sure the second one is pretty darn unbiased. The 2nd one is an article from the province of Ontario, who has no biased stance on horse slaughter or the consuming of horse meat. It's government approved. Plus I cant really add my local vet references since it really has no meaning to you guys anyways.


Here:
Purdue OWL: Evaluating Sources of Information

MLA on how to evaluate bias in your sources.


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## blush (Feb 10, 2007)

Speed Racer said:


> You stated that your paper was already at 24 pages, so what else are we to think when you post that kind of propaganda as 'truth'?
> 
> If you're seeking the actual _truth_ and not just what you find out there on the interwebz from the AR groups, you need to do a lot more work in digging up reputable, peer reviewed sources.
> 
> ...


Holyyyy. I am NOT asking you to do my paper FOR ME. I was simply searching for different insights and opinions so I can have a starting point into researching what others think. I am VERY capable of doing my own research and my own paper, I was really just curious into what others thought and then I could do some research based of that. Like are people just skipping over what I'm wiriting?!

Now I did ask for articles from those saying how "wrong" I am and how "right" they are. This wasn't meant to be a right-wrong thing, and if you feel so strongly that your opinion is right, prove it. I really don't have an opinion (not a strong one anyways haha), and I'm so open to others opinions if they simply say, "well have you thought of this..." instead of "YOUR SO WRONG. YOUR PAPER IS SO WRONG. blah blah blah." Like I said I'm not seeking a *right or wrong* discussion. I'm searching for what people *think *so I can *expand my research.*


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## blush (Feb 10, 2007)

demonwolfmoon said:


> Here:
> Purdue OWL: Evaluating Sources of Information
> 
> MLA on how to evaluate bias in your sources.


Ahhh perfect thanks for that!

I did email the Ontario website requesting a paper copy with proper publication dates, etc. They haven't gotten back to me yet however haha.


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## blush (Feb 10, 2007)

demonwolfmoon said:


> "The objective of this study was to compare the chemical composition and physicochemical quality of the *meat* of mature slaughter *horses* (73 mares and 58 geldings) sampled from the longissimus dorsi (longissimus lumborum section [LL]) and semitendinosus (ST) muscles. The LL muscle was characterized by significantly lower values of electrical conductivity, temperature and shear force; however, it showed a significantly higher water-holding capacity. *Meat* from the LL muscle showed a significantly higher intramuscular fat (IMF) content, and as a result, higher calories, but contained less water and protein than the ST muscle. Along with the increasing marbling level, the IMF content in the LL muscle increased from 2.79 up to 13.30%, whereas in the ST muscle, from 2.80 up to 6.45%. Generally, a higher *meat* marbling goes together with a decrease of water and protein contents as well as an increase of a protein/fat ratio. PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS On the basis of the obtained results, it was stated that the chemical composition and physicochemical quality of mature *horses*' *meat* was similar to some other species of red *meat*. Therefore, the *horse* flesh could be a valuable substitute of culinary *meat*, especially beef. The high dressing percentages reflected the *horses*' usefulness for *meat* production. Moreover, considering a slight number of defects occurring in *horse* *meat* (i.e. DFD or PSE), chevaline could be more widely used in the *meat* industry, in raw or processed form, as a suitable food for human consumption. [ABSTRACT FROM AUTHOR]"
> Z. LITWIŃCZUK, et al. "Chemical Composition And Physicochemical Properties Of Horse Meat From The Longissimus Lumborum And Semitendinosus Muscle." _Journal Of Muscle Foods_ 19.3 (2008): 223-236. _Academic Search Complete_. Web. 4 Nov. 2011.
> 
> Vancouver/ICMJEReferences
> LITWIŃCZUK A, FLOREK M, SKAŁECKI P, LITWIŃCZUK Z. CHEMICAL COMPOSITION AND PHYSICOCHEMICAL PROPERTIES OF HORSE MEAT FROM THE LONGISSIMUS LUMBORUM AND SEMITENDINOSUS MUSCLE. Journal Of Muscle Foods [serial on the Internet]. (2008, July), [cited November 4, 2011]; 19(3): 223-236. Available from: Academic Search Complete.


 
Wow, this goes above and beyond what I was looking for in this thread! Seriously thanks for that, I'm so happy to do more research into the positive aspects of the horse meat industry now that somebody has suggested it and not yelled in my face for being "so wrong".


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

Blush, I don't think they're yelling at you per se.  I think that the issue is that you asked for opinions, then threw a paper out there that is based on what is likely faulty information.

The issue is bias. If it's a paper for ethics, then explain why it's unethical to eat horse for a North American. The thing is, you are supporting it with biased websites. Any rescue site is going to say eating horses is horrible. They will cling, and some will even make up statistics as to why. To them, *the ends justifies the means.* Unfortunately, you have to weed out that kind of stuff when you are writing academic works. What would be unethical is if the horse meat treated with Bute was being sold as safe for consumption, for example. Eating horse? That seems more of a _cultural preference._

I didn't mean to blast you with scientific terminologies, but I'm a science major, and that is unfortunately the kind of fun stuff I get to use for my papers =)


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## Red Gate Farm (Aug 28, 2011)

Interesting topic and responses.

I've eaten horsemeat, sold in Quebec at a specific butcher whoc specializes in horsemeat, in the late 1970's. I asked where the horses came from? What were the regulations? As a horseowner, I was aware of the drugs we gave horses, and of the vision of "someone's pony now on the table".

I was told by the owner that the horses sold in Quebec had to adhere to the Canadian meat standards. These were not the horses you saw at auction, but where specifically bred to be eaten at a farm in Quebec and butchered according to regulations. They were not someone's pet.

Ok, so that might be a pack of lies, right? So I just researched a bit and this article from the Globe and Mail sheds a bit of light on that claim.

Why you should eat horsemeat: It's delicious - The Globe and Mail

If you don't wish to read the entire article, here is a portion:

For the drugs in the horsemeat?
_According to the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, when it comes to “chemical residues,” horsemeat performs as well or better than beef, chicken and pork. In random tests conducted in 2005 and 2006 – the most recent data – 99.95 per cent of horse samples showed “no detectable residues,” compared with 99.02 per cent for beef and 99.71 per cent for pork. In its eight years of testing for phenylbutazone in horsemeat, the agency hasn’t had a single positive result. And since July 31, to comply with European Union regulations, the CFIA requires horses be certified as drug-free for six months prior to slaughter. _

And for the butcher's claim of where the horses came from?
_The activists are correct about one thing. The majority of horses aren’t raised for the table. Only a small number – *somewhere between 1 and 10 per cent – are born and raised expressly for human consumption.* The others only become meat if and when their usefulness to humans has expired. _

So maybe he didn't lie to me.

I'll continue reading this thread for now  as it's interesting.


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## blush (Feb 10, 2007)

demonwolfmoon said:


> Blush, I don't think they're yelling at you per se.  I think that the issue is that you asked for opinions, then threw a paper out there that is based on what is likely faulty information.
> 
> The issue is bias. If it's a paper for ethics, then explain why it's unethical to eat horse for a North American. The thing is, you are supporting it with biased websites. Any rescue site is going to say eating horses is horrible. They will cling, and some will even make up statistics as to why. To them, *the ends justifies the means.* Unfortunately, you have to weed out that kind of stuff when you are writing academic works. What would be unethical is if the horse meat treated with Bute was being sold as safe for consumption, for example. Eating horse? That seems more of a _cultural preference._
> 
> I didn't mean to blast you with scientific terminologies, but I'm a science major, and that is unfortunately the kind of fun stuff I get to use for my papers =)


 
Thank you so much for your feedback, I really appreciate you being "helpful" and offering some suggestions. I really wanted to start this thread for the purpose of offering what people thought on the topic and if thier mind could be changed if someone presented new information. Honestly, no arguing over who's right or wrong was meant and I'm sorry if some felt that way. I just want to gather information and make my paper as best it can be, honest!

I completely understand what you're saying, I definitely need to re-evaluate my research done and expand on the topic. I have however, found through vets that have worked directly with illegal slaughterhouses is that horse meat with bute found in it is being sold as safe for consumption so that just sparked up me doing more "research" about bute etc. I do believe that some of my research is valid and unbiased, but now I see some of it is and I really need to scratch that and find new stuff. I do believe what my vets are saying and what they found, I'm now on the hunt to find articles to back them up!

I do find all of the personal opinions on eating horse meat to be very helpful, something I can use in my paper as personal views. I guess what I could ask next is if you would eat horse meat if you knew it was being sold as safe to consume even with toxic amounts of bute found in it. That's pretty much what I want to know with the "valid" research so far found haha.


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

blush said:


> I guess what I could ask next is if you would eat horse meat if you knew it was being sold as safe to consume even with toxic amounts of bute found in it. That's pretty much what I want to know with the "valid" research so far found haha.


On this, I might be biased...but I think that if people knew HALF of the stuff that was in what they were eating, they wouldn't eat it. :shock:


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## blush (Feb 10, 2007)

Red Gate Farm said:


> Interesting topic and responses.
> 
> I've eaten horsemeat, sold in Quebec at a specific butcher whoc specializes in horsemeat, in the late 1970's. I asked where the horses came from? What were the regulations? As a horseowner, I was aware of the drugs we gave horses, and of the vision of "someone's pony now on the table".
> 
> ...


 
Wow! That's so interesting, maybe there is truth to both sides of the story? The information I found regarding "no horses are bred for food" was done in the states, maybe why Canadian research shows something different. I know that horse slaughter is illegal in the US, but not in Canada maybe why there are discrepencies between information. Interesting!


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Delfina, I do the same. I own 3 horses, 3 cats and 2 dogs, but I have 24 chickens and THEY are my livestock. DH decided to name the breeding roosters, but we have eaten all the young roosters I hatched out this summer and kept their sisters for replacement layers.
I would eat horsemeat, but for me fresh, young chicken has the most awesome flavor. Store-bought, grown in cramped circumstances cannot compare with it and that is why the phrase, "it tastes like chicken", bc _that_ chicken is rather tasteless. _(I tried raising Narragansett turkeys, but their meat wasn't much better than their store counterparts, so I probably won't do that again.)_
I slaughter my own birds. (I bleed them out, but I've also chopped off the heads.) My dogs get the heads, the legs and the cleaner organs, except for the livers, which I love. I don't baby my birds, but they have plenty of room--right now 16 birds in a 10 x 20 enclosure with plenty of fresh water and food and shelter. If I free-ranged them raccoons or coyotes would diminish my flock, and I'd have to hunt for eggs, some of which would rot. In about a week the new layer flock moves inside, and we'll be eating the 7 older hens and their rooster, who are living in another enclosure with a little house. When you do this there is a certain respect you give them, and an obligation to treat them humanely. 
*I do NOT name them.*
I believe that Americans have elevated their pets to "Human Friend" status, plus dogs, cats and horses are very intelligent, and that seems to discourage our appetite for consumption. Chickens aren't stupid, however. We traded birds with a friend bc he only wanted hens, but had purchased 2 youngish roosters. I gave him a 2yo laying hen and a 2 month old hen. His flock attacked the young one, but the older hen had taken over and she protected the younger one under her wing. You should know that they had never been introduced before he took them home, however she "mothered" some of the eggs that I incubated. Go figure!
_Btw, 100% of Bute is NOT in my herd of 3 horses._


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

blush said:


> I have however, found through vets that have worked directly with illegal slaughterhouses is that horse meat with bute found in it is being sold as safe for consumption so that just sparked up me doing more "research" about bute etc.
> 
> I guess what I could ask next is if you would eat horse meat if you knew it was being sold as safe to consume even with toxic amounts of bute found in it. That's pretty much what I want to know with the "valid" research so far found haha.


Did you even read your own reference? You referenced a Canadian Government website that states that they couldn't detect Bute in test cases after 96 hours. 

You shouldn't go looking for evidence to support your bias (or that of your vets). You should research a subject with the aim of developing an EDUCATED opinion.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

demonwolfmoon said:


> On this, I might be biased...but I think that if people knew HALF of the stuff that was in what they were eating, they wouldn't eat it. :shock:


Having worked in the meat industry for 10+ years I would disagree. I know what is in your food and I know how much of it was made and the care that goes into making sure that we have a safe food supply and it doesn't worry me at all.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

kitten_Val said:


> I tried gator once... It did smell quite bad... Don't think I want to try it again.
> 
> In Korea I tried to avoid asking what I'm eating. Lol! (although I knew for sure not dogs - we only went to cheapy places with fish and alike, from what I read dog meat is quite expensive down there).


I've had gator and squid... Bear, rabbit... I think I tried opossum once... I can't remember if I refused the rattle snake or not... I've had chocolate covered ants and I tried really hard to try escargo but couldn't do it....


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

kevinshorses said:


> Having worked in the meat industry for 10+ years I would disagree. I know what is in your food and I know how much of it was made and the care that goes into making sure that we have a safe food supply and it doesn't worry me at all.


Not talking about meat specifically


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Niether am I


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

"*Food* contact *materials* (FCM) are an underestimated source of chemical *food* contaminants and a potentially relevant route of human exposure to endocrine disrupting chemicals (EDCs). Quantifying the exposure of the general population to substances from FCM relies on estimates of *food* consumption and leaching into *food*. Recent studies using polycarbonate plastics show that *food* simulants do not always predict worst-case leaching of bisphenol A, a common FCM substance. Also, exposure of children to FCM substances is not always realistically predicted using the common conventions and thus possibly misjudged. Further, the exposure of the whole population to substances leaching into dry *foods* is underestimated. Consumers are exposed to low levels of substances from FCM across their entire lives.* Effects of these compounds currently are assessed with a focus on mutagenicity and genotoxicity.* This approach however neglects integrating recent new toxicological findings, like endocrine disruption, mixture toxicity, and developmental toxicity. According to these new toxicology paradigms women of childbearing age and during pregnancy are a new sensitive population group requiring more attention. Furthermore, in overweight and obese persons a change in the metabolism of xenobiotics is observed, possibly implying that this group of consumers is insufficiently protected by current risk assessment practice. Innovations in FCM risk assessment should therefore include routine testing for EDCs and an assessment of the whole migrate toxicity of a *food* packaging, taking into account all sensitive population groups. In this article I focus on recent issues of interest concerning either exposure to or effects of FCM-related substances. Further, I review the use of benzophenones and organotins, two groups of known or suspected EDCs, in FCM authorized in the US and EU. [Copyright &y& Elsevier]"
Muncke, Jane. "Endocrine Disrupting Chemicals And Other Substances Of Concern In Food Contact Materials: An Updated Review Of Exposure, Effect And Risk Assessment." _Journal Of Steroid Biochemistry & Molecular Biology_ 127.1/2 (2011): 118-127. _Academic Search Complete_. Web. 4 Nov. 2011.

*Food* *additives* have been used by mankind for centuries. *Most food **additives are considered safe; however, some are known to be **toxic or carcinogenic.* Aldehydes occur as natural (flavoring) constituents in a wide variety of *foods* and *food* components. This review highlights the nephrotoxicity of the major flavoring agent - cinnamaldehyde. Cinnamaldehyde has been in public use since 1900. It is a yellowish liquid with a strong pleasant fragrance derived from the bark of Cinnamomum cultivated trees. Cinnamaldehyde also occurs in several brands of cinnamon breads, cereals, cookies, puddings, and fruit juices. Cinnamaldehyde is chemically related to toxicologically more active compounds, like acrolein and crotonaldehyde. Besides cinnamaldehyde, acute toxicity of other major components of Cinnamomum - cinnamic acid and cinnamyl alcohol were observed in rats. Thus, concern about the safety of cinnamaldehyde in general was raised. Many species of the genus Cinnamomum, the main source of cinnamaldehyde, are distributed in different regions of India. Cinnamaldehyde is widely found in many Indian *foods* and medicinal and cosmetic products. Thus, cinnamaldehyde has a high potential for human consumption in India. This research work on the *toxic* effects of cinnamaldehyde on kidney was conducted at the World Health Organization (WHO) suggested Acceptable Daily Intake (ADI) level (0.7 mg / kg body weight). Histopathological changes of kidney were accompanied by alterations in the antioxidant status, level of marker enzymes and other chemical constituents.* Finally, it was concluded that cinnamaldehyde has a toxic effect on the rat kidney and its effect is time and dose dependent. *[ABSTRACT FROM AUTHOR] _(I didn't skim to find required dose, just looking for peer reviewed papers at the moment)_

Gowder, Sivakumar, and Halagowder Devaraj. "A Review Of The Nephrotoxicity Of The Food Flavor Cinnamaldehyde." _Current Bioactive Compounds_ 6.2 (2010): 106-117. _Academic Search Complete_. Web. 4 Nov. 2011.


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## ladybugsgirl (Aug 12, 2009)

I would never eat a horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Red Gate Farm (Aug 28, 2011)

Here is another report you may wish to read for your research.

http://www.afac.ab.ca/reports/08horsereport.pdf

Page 21 outlines the way feedlots are set up.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

The following is taken from page 22 of the previously mentioned link.

These horses are free fed a high quality ration of
hay and grain. Multiple feeders through out the
pens allow horses’ easy access to feed. The
maximum density at one feedlot was measured at​1383 sq/ft per horse.

A twelve by twelve stall has 144 sq feet per horse. And feed is rarely free choice.


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## HOOFDRS (Mar 18, 2011)

Well I have had Horse two different times in Germany and i must say one was street food style and the second was in a nice restaurant, both were fairly good but that doesn't mean that I'm going to search where i can buy it in the US.


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## Bearkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

blush said:


> what I have found from the vet's around my area
> 
> Like jeez, I'm not sure why everyone is jumping down my throat, like I said my paper ISNT THE LAW.


 
First of all, stupid articles like this often DO become law. By filling peoples heads with propoganda and BS. 

Also, vets aren't usually an unbiased source. Not allowing slaughter helps make them money. That way every poor sap with an aging or injured horse has to keep dumping money into it. Most people won't favor something that takes potential money out of their pockets. In this case, vets.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Golden Horse said:


> Found in 100% of horses????? I call
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Agreed. Of all the horses I have on my place, my family has owned them either since birth or since they were very young. I know for a fact that there are only 2 that have ever received bute...and that has been years ago. So the idea that 100% of all horses that go to slaughter have been buted is just ridiculous. 

I'm quite sure that there is, at least, some portion of the horses going so slaughter are horses that have never been handled...and nobody but the kill buyer wants to buy them because they've never been handled. The odds that someone who couldn't be bothered to even teach them to lead would put them on bute for any reason are virtually non-existent.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

By the Canadian governments own admission and included as a reference in the OP's "research" bute is undetectable after 4 days. Most horses are kept 30-45 days at a feedlot before going to the slaughterhouse. Bute will cause health problems if taken by humans but I know of no substance except some heavy metals like mercury and lead that won't leave the animals system eventually. The reason that it says on the bottle of bute not to use it on animals intended for food is because insufficent research has been done to establish a withdrawl period that will satisfy the FDA and USDA.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

I have eaten horse meat and I will again.

Would I eat my own horse? no because I know what crap I've put into him.

I'd love to see any papers of people dieing due to eating horse meat and it being directly attributed to Bute. Infact in Europe the vast majority of horses going for meat are bred for meat or are completely unhandled. Europe also has hirse passports which a vet should sign before administering any drug that would stop the horse entering the human food chain, the signature in the passport will remove the horse from the food chain (owners can also sign the same box). Finaly in Europe it seems like vet meds are more strictly controlled. You cannot get antibiotics fram anyone other than the vet and then only if they have seen the animal, you can't just vaccinate your horse it has to be done by the vet (and signed off in thier passport), you can't just buy bute etc you have to get them from the vet.


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## Shasta1981 (Nov 12, 2010)

Great feedback from demonwolf. When I took journalism I was taught to never insert any kind of opinion at any time. To this day I can't stand some newscasts because of their inability to remove themselves from the piece. With that said, if this is supposed to be an opinion piece then, as stated by others, you need to take the biased facts out and only state your opinion at the end of the piece as opposed to throughout the whole paper. Your credibility is at stake if you don't show both sides. 

I will vote No, I would not try horse meat if given the chance. May also be worth noting that I'm a vegetarian so it doesn't matter to me that they are viewed as pets.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Scoutrider (Jun 4, 2009)

I'd be willing to try it. For all I know, it probably tastes like chicken! :wink:

I'd have to be nigh dead of starvation before I'd consider packing Scout into my freezer, no matter what threats I may mutter on occasion... That specific horse is a buddy, a partner, an athlete, and, occasionally, a pet. My attachment to him wouldn't keep me from trying horse meat, though.


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