# Need Advice: Horse Sale Gone Wrong!



## Cadence (Oct 30, 2009)

My friend offered to sell me her two horses a few months back. I paid off the gelding. I was supposed to enter a contract to pay for the mare. My friend delivered the mare and gelding last Saturday. 

Within 24 hours the mare turned out to be lame, in her hind foot, and emaciated (ribs showing, hollowed out near barrel, and you can see hind end vertebrae). My "friends" admitted that they never picked up their feet to clean them. Their hooves were too long and splintered. The gelding tried to kick me in the face, he stepped on me, and bit me in the back. When I shared this disturbing information to my friend she started crying and said that she was afraid of him and didn't spend time handling or training him and that is why they sold him to me! They thought that I would work with him.... ....But he has no vices, she tells me. 

When I approached them about the mare favoring her hind leg, with the broken hunks out of her hoof they lost their minds! They were insulted that I would even suggest that they are selling me a lame horse. 

They decided that they were going to pack up the horses, the gear, the tools and anything else they brought and return with it in their trailer to Michigan. I calmly said, you can't do that because I paid for the gelding. He belongs to me now. They went so far as to write a check out in the amount that I paid them, for the gelding. I refused to accept the money and stood my ground. 

They drove like mad to the farm where the horses were located. When I got there the owners of the property called the police to have them removed for trespassing. They said that they were going to take me to court, "for all of this...". I asked them to take the mare, her tack, and their trailer and please leave my home and leave this farm in the morning. My friend screamed at me, "Don't you understand Shelley! I can't take the mare back home by herself! She has never been alone and it wouldn't be good for her psychological well being to be without her son! You see, that is why I don't want them here with you! You don't even think about their well being." I politely replied, ".. if you were so worried about their well being then why didn't you work with the gelding to give him structure, ride them, feed them what they needed, and care for their feet properly?" She came at me and the policeman stepped in to hold her back! Then, she growled, "You're going to regret this! I am going to take you to court! Is that what you want?" The policeman then instructed her to get in her car and leave. 

The following morning, I went to the farm very early, just in case they did show up. I didn't really want the horses to go back to them, but I didn't want to lose the gelding! I waited and waited for hours. Finally, my boyfriend called me and said that they contacted him and apparently were on their way home to Michigan. They just decided to leave the mare and the trailer parked in grass on property I am leasing!!!!! They told my boyfriend that I am to enter a contract to pay for the mare and trailer. 

I do not want to see the mare going back to them. They are afraid of horses and clearly do not care for them properly. I can afford to keep her but do not wish to enter into a legally binding contract with these people. I do not trust that they will actually give me a bill of sale for the mare, or a title for the trailer. Also, they do not understand that the mare needs medical attention and is underweight. This costs money and they were not upfront about these problems!

I would like your advice as to how I should proceed with such an issue. Would you suggest that I write her a letter asking her to remove her trailer and horse from my property within 30 days or else I will start charging her rent for the trailer and board for the mare. If they do not pay, then does the mare belong to me? 

By NYS law if they do not claim the animal in 30 days after I send this letter, would this constitute as abandonment? 

Also, can you suggest someone I could speak with? Who has experience in these matters?

Thank you!!!


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Subscribing to the thread. I'll be back in a bit after I talk to a friend of mine. She had a problem like this a few month back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

I had a situation in my life arise where a woman gave me a horse and after she had already given it to me and I had kept it a couple of weeks, wanted me to enter into a rescue adoption contract. For a less than $200 I was able to get a consultation with an attorney and have him send a letter to the previous owner forbidding her to come on our property or anywhere near the horse. In our case, we still have the horse and all is well. I think before you take any action you need to find out what your rights are. I know that nobody really wants to go to an attorney, but at least that way you know where you stand and it will help guide you in the right direction as far as what you need to do. Also, you need to keep receipts for all your expenses on both horses.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

If you are going to buy the trailer you would pay them at the same time get a bill of sale and a title. If you do not want the trailer have them get it or have it towed away.
If the transaction was done long distance you could send the money to an attorney and they could get the title and then give her the money at the same time.


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## draftrider (Mar 31, 2010)

Or you could make a report to the sheriff that they abandoned a horse and trailer on your property. You can offer to board the mare for a reasonable sum per day until they return to pick it up.

I am not sure what the laws are in your state, but in MN if someone abandons property on your property for over 30 days, such as a car, you have to send a certified letter to their last known residence demanding removal and the payment of reasonable storage fees. Find out what a storage yard would charge you for the storage of a horse trailer for a month.

If they fail to pay and remove their property from yours by the specified date in the certified return receipt requested letter, the property is then yours to dispose of as you see fit. You can sell the trailer and horse to recover your costs (storage and boarding fees) and if you decide to keep the trailer you can just go to the DMV and request a duplicate title.

I have had to do this several times over the years. I would certainly suggest contacting an attorney that knows about property law and get their advice regarding laws in your state.


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## Amarea (May 25, 2010)

You had the cops out there for the initial incident. I agree with draftrider. File a police report of abandonment. That gives you a legal paper trail. Also get a copy of the police report from the first incident to see if they mention the threats. I would also suggest a restraining order to keep her from just coming on your property willy nilly. Have your bf write out his statement now and have it notorized. I've seen cases get pitched because the witness waited to get one written and the judge felt it left time for the recollection of events to be questioned.

I agree that you need to send her a certified letter stating she has 30 days from the date it happened to reclaim the trailer and mare. I would also get a vet exam done on her ASAP so when the 30 days comes, you can claim her as abandoned and have proof of their neglect if they attempt to fight it. 

Good luck!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

If the trailer is hers and she did not sign the title over to you, you are going to have loads of fun with that too.

Pay her for the other horse and then you can say you have paid for them and they are yours.


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## Cadence (Oct 30, 2009)

draftrider said:


> Or you could make a report to the sheriff that they abandoned a horse and trailer on your property. You can offer to board the mare for a reasonable sum per day until they return to pick it up.
> 
> I am not sure what the laws are in your state, but in MN if someone abandons property on your property for over 30 days, such as a car, you have to send a certified letter to their last known residence demanding removal and the payment of reasonable storage fees. Find out what a storage yard would charge you for the storage of a horse trailer for a month.
> 
> ...


I contacted our local animal shelter and they put me through to the local sheriff that assists them. He actually gave me the NYS ag and market law that states that I have to give her a registered letter, within 10 days of the incident taking place, saying come get your property. In the letter, I restated the incident (diplomatically)-lol, and inserted NYS law article 331, and then told her that she had 20 days upon receipt of the letter to remove the horse/trailer. The law states that I can charge board/fees and the horse/trailer become my property if she does not collect them in a timely manner. 

I sent the letter yesterday. 

**crosses fingers*** 

I did try to contact several property lawyers and have not heard back. Apparently this is a great time of year to go on vacation. Since I had 5 days to get the letter to the woman, I had to act without legal counsel. 

I will keep you all posted!  

Shelley


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## Cadence (Oct 30, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> If the trailer is hers and she did not sign the title over to you, you are going to have loads of fun with that too.
> 
> Pay her for the other horse and then you can say you have paid for them and they are yours.


I wish that it was that simple. To give you an idea of what this woman is like... I have an email where she says, ..."Thank you for that last payment Shelley. Now Aries (the gelding) is officially yours." This plus the two checks makes a bill of sale. 

She sent me an email two days ago saying that I owe her more money, sent me a paypal request and said, "Aries is not yours anymore. Yow owe me more money for him." 

So, even if I paid for the mare, would she ever send the bill of sale? Would it just be a game to her to keep stringing me along?


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Cadence said:


> Apparently this is a great time of year to go on vacation.


Yes, even lawyers are allowed to take vacations and take time off over the July 4th weekend.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Cadence said:


> My friend offered to sell me her two horses a few months back. I paid off the gelding. I was supposed to enter a contract to pay for the mare. My friend delivered the mare and gelding last Saturday.


I can't get past this paragraph.

You purchased two horses - sight unseen? From a friend?

And you thought this would go well?


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## Amarea (May 25, 2010)

Cadence said:


> I sent the letter yesterday.


Please tell me you sent it certified and regular both. I got screwed awhile back by not sending something certified. I really wish you the best as she seems totally off her rocker!


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## Lauren Woodard (Jul 7, 2010)

Do you really want to pay for a horse (the mare) you don't want?
Do you really want to pay for two horses (an attacker) you don't want?


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

Lauren Woodard said:


> Do you really want to pay for a horse (the mare) you don't want?
> Do you really want to pay for two horses (an attacker) you don't want?


It sounds like the OP would like to work with the gelding to get him up to par and wants the mare to end up in a better situation but is not as interested in keeping her long term. (Am I right?) If things work out with the abandonment, she may get the mare and the trailer for free anyhow.

I think you're doing as much as can be done. I certainly hope that matters work out well for you.


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## TinRoses (Jul 11, 2010)

Well folks the dice is this:

1.) After a certain amount of time the abandonment becomes property owned free and clear provided she sends them written notice via registered (certified return/receipt) mail.

2.) I would absolute in great painstakingly clear detail get receipts of your money (pay pal transactions, canceled checks etc) and any and all e-mails or correspondences that show the agreed sum for the gelding and the mare. At the same time I would photograph the horses condition, feet, body structure, any sores etc. Call out a vet and a farrier and a dentist and have them all A.) treat the horses and B.) write letters attesting to their condition and level of disarray.

You also want to contact your local ASPCA to inform them that someone abandoned a horse on your property and that you are caring for the horse as it was abandoned in poor condition and suffering lameness, but as this may go to court you'd like them to document the situation.

Save ALL e-mails this woman sends you. _*DO NOT ANSWER ANY OF THEM.*_ just keep them and print them and put them all in one big folder set aside with receipts of anything that comes out of YOUR pocket for these horses. Especially that mare.

Other then that? Hold tight, sit pretty, realize that friends aren't friends when money is concerned, and wait. Make sure you guard those horses though. They may try to make a sneak attack but I think it's after 10 days that they're yours 

ALSO! Registration papers mean NOTHING as far as ownership. Have a new coggins pulled on the gelding IMMEDIATELY IN YOUR NAME!


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

TinRoses said:


> Registration papers mean NOTHING as far as ownership.


Incorrect. The registry goes by who is listed as the owner of the animal. In order for the animal to be registered to the new owner, the previous owner has to sign the transfer line. Otherwise, the animal will stay registered to the previous owner, and the new owner may not attend breed shows with the animal.



TinRoses said:


> Have a new coggins pulled on the gelding IMMEDIATELY IN YOUR NAME!


Coggins do not denote ownership. The merely indicate who authorized the coggins pulled. A coggins cannot be used as a legal document proving ownership.

A signed contract or bill of sale denotes ownership, and will trump registration papers. No contract or bill of sale, and the registration is considered to be the fallback document proving ownership.

You can claim abandonment if the animal has been left in your care for a certain amount of time, but you'll need written, verifiable proof. Such as receipts for vet care, feed, farrier, etc.

If all those are in order, you can get a legal ruling in your favor and obtain a hardship registration transfer.


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## westernpleasuregal (Jun 20, 2010)

O MY GOOSH!!!! she is like insane! no offense!!


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## TinRoses (Jul 11, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> Incorrect. The registry goes by who is listed as the owner of the animal. In order for the animal to be registered to the new owner, the previous owner has to sign the transfer line. Otherwise, the animal will stay registered to the previous owner, and the new owner may not attend breed shows with the animal. *Having gone through a legal situation where a sale barn stole my consigned Hanoverian filly I can assure you that the law will not consider registration papers as proof of ownership because all too often horses are sold without registration papers and/or registration papers are with held. Otherwise someone from years ago who sold the horse at a sale and suddenly seeing the horse competing at a local non-breed show and doing well could suddenly cry theft and ownership.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The problem is in the case of grade horses which is why that Coggins test is a VITAL piece of information. Because my Hanoverian filly was not registered/stud book approved it took 8 months to get her back and sadly the court ruling for custody came two days AFTER she passed away due a twisted gut only because the party then tried to tack on vet bills etc associated with the euthanasia. The result was a massive court suit against the barn for grand larceny theft and destruction of property since they killed the animal without my approval etc. I hope this goes much better for you.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Coggins paperwork can be signed by anyone, does not have to be the owner of the horse. Therefore, it is not a legal document showing ownership, only the horses information and that someone "authorized" to sign did so. Anyone could take a horse in and get a coggins test and sign the paperwork. 
Grade or not, it is simply a document showing the horse passes a blood test, not legal ownership. A brand inspection will show legal ownership, but seems some states don't do brand inspections.


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