# Gross weight for truck



## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

I was checking our truck and trailer ownerships today and wondered how to calculate the proper towing weight for a truck and trailer.
Truck weight 2027 LB Gross weight 4000 LB

Trailer weight 860 LB

The truck is a 2000 GMC 8 cylinder
Does this mean that I can take the gross weight of the truck, deduct the weight of the trailer and that is what I can add on when towing the trailer?? 
4000 LB
- 860 LB 
3140 LB that I can load into the trailer?

Or do I have to deduct the weight of the trailer and truck from the 4000 LB?
Thanks


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## Emoore (Sep 14, 2015)

Gross weight is the maximum safe or allowed weight of a truck including the truck itself, engine, fluids, fuel, accessories, driver, passengers and cargo. In other words it is the truck and everything in it, but doesn't have anything to do with towing. Your truck should have a separate tow rating that tells you its max trailer towing ability, but you want to stay well within that, not push right up to it.

If your truck is a Sierra 1500 then its tow rating is 7500-9400lb depending on options.


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

Several things to look for, vehicle weight should be stamped into a label inside your door. Trailer weights should be on the tongue.

Axle weight- How much weight each axle can handle. This is important because you can be under the gross weight for your vehicle but over weight on an axle.

Gross weight- How much total weight your vehicle can weight.

Gross combined weight- How much your tow vehicle and trailer combined can weight.

Tow weight-How heavy of a trailer you can tow.

Now for the two most forgotten weights:

Hitch rating- How much weight your hitch is rated for.

Max load rating of tires- How much weight your tires are rated to hold at maximum pressure. Again this is important, if your rear axle is rated for 3000 pounds but your tires are rated for only 1250 pounds/each then you shouldn't put more than 2500 pounds on that rear axle. That's excluding putting in a safety buffer, I generally don't want to load more than 80% of rated capacity if I can avoid it. Personally I always run tires that will at least match my maximum axle weight and prefer tires that can hold more.

This is what I do: 

-I go find a nearby closed truck weigh station, generally the scale is still on even though it's not manned. I empty the truck of cargo and fill the fuel tank for a typical empty weight. Run each axle onto the scale and write down your numbers, you now know how much total weight you can add to your vehicle. 

-Go hook up to your trailer, reweight your tow vehicle axles and write those numbers down. Next move your trailer axles onto the scale and write down how much it weights empty. Taking those numbers you now know how much weight you can put in the trailer and on your vehicle. 

-Last of all, load your typical load into your tow vehicle and trailer. That means, however many horses you would haul, water, hay, gear, people, etc. and go weigh yourself again one axle at a time. This will tell you two things, are you under the GCVW of your vehicle and if you overloaded any of your axles. If under GCVW but over axle weight, move your load around to try and better balance it or use sway bars. 

Rule of thumbs:

-Load the heaviest weight over the top of your trailer axles. 

-Loading weight behind the trailer axles will pull some weight off of your tow vehicles rear axle. Loading weight in front of your trailers axles will increase the load on your tow vehicles rear axle.

-Properly setup sway bars will help distribute the load across all axles.

-Set up your drop hitch to a height that keeps the trailer level when loaded. Trailer nose high and low each create their own challenges when towing.


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

Emoore said:


> Gross weight is the truck and everything in it, but doesn't have anything to do with towing.


Well, not quite. Everything "in it" includes the weight on the hitch._While this figure does not include the total weight of any trailer being towed, it does include the passengers, personal effects, and cargo carried, along with the weight (or the gross vehicle weight) of the truck itself and the tongue weight of the trailer._​Understanding Gross Vehicle Weight Rating - GMC Life

Now taking the example of a 2016 1/2 ton GMC,_The gross vehicle weight rating for this particular model is 7,100 pounds. The weight of the Sierra itself is already 5,216 pounds. By subtracting the weight from the GVWR, you can determine this particular Sierra can carry about 1,884 pounds without exceeding its maximum weight rating.
_​In this particular example, let's say you had a 2-horse trailer that weighed 4.500 pounds with two big horses, all your tack, maybe a couple of bales of hay and a full water tank. You would want at least 10% of the trailer weight on the tongue, so that would be 450 lbs. to subtract from the 1,884 capacity, leaving you with 1,434 lbs. for your passengers and gear.

If you were pulling a gooseneck, you would have more like 15-20% of the weight on the tongue, and a heavier trailer, so with a 5,000 lb. trailer you might be putting 1,000 pounds on the hitch, leaving you only 434 lbs. left, which is why it's generally impractical to try to pull even the smallest gooseneck with a 1/2 ton truck.

By the way, the numbers you supplied are pretty suspect. I don't think there's ever been a full half ton truck that only weighed 2027 lbs. Here's what autobytel gives as capacities for the 2000 GMC:Curb weight: 3,923 lbs.
Gross vehicle weight: 6,100 lbs.
Payload: 2,177 lbs.
Towing Capacity: 8,700 lbs.​Even the tiny Honda Fit weighs more than 2500 lbs.


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## Emoore (Sep 14, 2015)

There's always an engineer. .. .


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## Horse Nut Husband (Sep 22, 2016)

Joel Reiter said:


> Well, not quite. Everything "in it" includes the weight on the hitch._While this figure does not include the total weight of any trailer being towed, it does include the passengers, personal effects, and cargo carried, along with the weight (or the gross vehicle weight) of the truck itself and the tongue weight of the trailer._​.


This is interesting. I have a thread going in which my spouse was told that a trailer she was considering purchasing had had the surge brakes removed because 'the trailer weighs 1610 pounds and therefore doesn't need brakes [by law].

Is there a difference between 'gross weight' and 'gross vehicle weight', and can you explain the difference?


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

I agree with Joel that the numbers don't seem right. We are in Canada and I wonder if the numbers are Kilograms not pounds although on the ownership it does say LB, but one k equals 2.2 pounds.
I will call the MTO tomorrow and see if they can help me with the weight question.

Thank you for all this good information, I will now have some ideas about what I need to ask and how to get the info.
I did think of taking the truck and trailer to a weigh scale and have it weighed and then load it up with gear and horses and redo and hopefully we are within safety margins.

I don't trailer much, the area around here has no big hills and I don't go far from home. One year the truck only traveled 3000k for the whole year, in the six years we have had it, we have put on 25000 K and most of that not pulling a trailer.


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

Horse Nut Husband said:


> surge brakes removed because 'the trailer weighs 1610 pounds and therefore doesn't need brakes [by law].


If the trailer truly weighs 1610 lbs it definitely needs trailer brakes, because that's a big trailer and would be very heavy when loaded. On the other hand, if it only weighs 1,610 lbs fully loaded, surge brakes wouldn't be necessary. But either way, if the trailer was manufactured with brakes and they are no longer there, I would run, not walk away from that seller. Something is very screwy there.



Horse Nut Husband said:


> Is there a difference between 'gross weight' and 'gross vehicle weight', and can you explain the difference?


Gross weight and gross vehicle weight and gross vehicle weight rating can all be the same thing. Where it gets really confusing is when you start talking about gross combined vehicle weight rating.

Gross vehicle weight rating is the maximum your vehicle can weigh when you roll it on the scale fully loaded. If your truck has a GVWR of 7000 lbs, and empty it weighs 5000, then all the bodies in it, all the luggage, all the crap in the bed, and all the weight on the hitch must be 2000 lbs or less.

On the other hand, GCVWR (gross combined vehicle weight rating) is the maximum weight of the truck, the weight of the load, and the weight of the trailer all together.

This might help: Towing Terms and Definitions


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## Horse Nut Husband (Sep 22, 2016)

Joel Reiter said:


> If the trailer truly weighs 1610 lbs it definitely needs trailer brakes, because that's a big trailer and would be very heavy when loaded. On the other hand, if it only weighs 1,610 lbs fully loaded, surge brakes wouldn't be necessary. But either way, if the trailer was manufactured with brakes and they are no longer there, I would run, not walk away from that seller. Something is very screwy there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you. I have a thread going about this trailer elsewhere in this sub-forum, so it just confirms what I thought. It's a 1960 2 horse bumper pull, so it's solid steel. From what I could gather from researching the relevant law, it was required by law to have brakes in order to be sold in WA State at the time it was made. It was supposedly 'refurbished' and given a new VIN in 1987, which meant that if it didn't have brakes when it was sold, it had to have them before WA State Patrol would allow it to be registered. So I don't know who decided it didn't need brakes, but I sure am glad we didn't buy it. A shame, because it was a really nice trailer otherwise, albeit a bit small for most horses nowadays.


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