# Opinions on using a martingale



## beverleyy (Oct 26, 2011)

Are you sure it's one of those two? There are others out there.

I'll probably never use them. IMHO, (no body shoot me for saying this) if you feel the need to use one, there's a hole in your training somewhere.

The standing martingale attaches from the girth and through the legs onto the back of the noseband. They are supposed to be used for horses that head toss, but a good chunk of people slap them on "just because" and to help force a headset. A large chunk of people do not attach them correctly (ie: too tightly, or use them in the wrong place/wrong time, and they can become quite dangerous.)

A running martingale puts pressure on the bars of the mouth to help a speedy horse not evade the bit - so when head comes up, pressure is on and brings the head back down. It provides more freedom for horse/rider than the standing (which you cannot loosen in an emergency). If adjusted incorrectly, the force on the mouth would become too severe - I see a TON of riders doing this.

Overall, I do not agree with them period. If a rider truly feels the need to use one for the intended purpose and all is adjusted correctly, then I'd say fine use it to aid in correctly fixing the hole in the training, and then take it right off. But even then I have trouble agreeing with them.


----------



## Cimarron (Oct 8, 2014)

Martingales are often used in jumping events. I've never quite understood that because the horses need to be able to properly look at the jump to understand the height and depth in order to clear it. Whenever I watch shows, I always see the horse pulling up against the martingale.
I'm not sure if they actually achieve their intended purpose. I think they are a piece of tack that has just because standard for those sorts of things.


----------



## BreezylBeezyl (Mar 25, 2014)

Most martingales are used for jumping or eventing, presumably because some horses throw their heads up when gauging a jump or when they get excited about a jump. I don't use one, and I jump. Mostly because I haven't had a use for one yet - which is saying something considering my horse is a NSH and is built like a giraffe. It's still early in her training and we are only popping over small jumps, but so far she is respectable going through the course. 

I think martingales have their uses *where training isn't an initial problem*. If you're riding a $30 000 jumper who knows its job, and the horse simply raises it's head a lot due to excitement, it's honestly a safety precaution NOT to use a martingale as there is a risk of taking your horse's neck to your face. It can also help a horse stabilize themselves, again if adjusted properly.

"Tie downs" used in western riding are also used for support. It gives the horse something to brace their head against and balance while cutting/roping a cow or going around tight barrel turns.

Martingales/tie downs can be restrictive or they can be supportive, just like with ANY piece of tack or equipment we use on our horses. Nothing we do with horses is natural, so it's important we listen to what our horses are telling us if there is a change in attitude/temperament when introducing these items into our training.

I do not condone the use of tie downs or martingales to put a horse into a "frame". That is not what their purpose originally was - it was to add support and protect both horse and rider.


----------



## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I agree that there are some applications for these artificial training devises, but that they are also way over used,and used incorrectly by many people
I prefer not to use them, but I don't re-train problem horses.
When I rode all around, including games, i did use a tiedown with a snaffle, on my horse that was shown in a curb in judged events (reining , trail, cattle events, western riding ), for the purpose that Willow mentioned.
I can also see application for a tiedown in competition roping, agisnt the clock, where that horse can't be set up for astop, as in reining, but is often jerked to a stop
Beyond that, a tie down has no place in any training program
I know of idiots that have used them trail riding, with the horse drowning, crossing a fast flowing river.
Running martingales, adjusted correctly, are touted as not coming into play, unless a horse raises his head too high-still the rider learns to rely on that martingale, instead of develpoing true feel, keeping the horse correct with the right combo of legs, driving and holding, and releasing when the horse is correct, so that the horse learns to carry himself correct, without that martingale 'baby sitting him or the rider
I don't jump, so won't comment on standing martingales, as I have never used them
Less is more, and if your horse is going fine, hang up that martingale or take it to a tack sale
I have not used one to0 train a horse in many years. At one time, I did ride colts with asnaffle and running martingale. I then took my three year old reining mare to a cowhorse clinic, given by the very well known and successful Alberta cowhorse, cutting and reining trainer, Les Timmons
I had a snaffle and a running martingale on my horse. He told me to take it off, and learn true feel. I have followed that advise ever since!


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I will never use a standing martingale. In English riding they're supposed to be there to stop a horse throwing its head up or rearing - in fact most horses are strong enough to snap their nosebands if they're that intent on doing either. They also restrict a horse putting its head up to save itself if it stumbles which a is a real negative IMO
The running martingale is a very different thing and correctly adjusted won't interfere with a horses head position unless its so far in the air its dangerous and even then the rider can control how much it acts by giving release on the reins
They're a very old piece of tack - and were once considered essential for ladies when they were riding in the summer and their horses were throwing their heads around because of all the flies
I will use one on a horse that head flips and when riding a young or green horse out on the roads or trails 
They're one of those 'standard uniform' things out hunting and jumping - they will prevent your reins from ending up on the same side of your horses neck and if you get unbalanced over a fence and your hands end up in some odd position they will help keep the action of the reins in the right place


----------



## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

beverleyy said:


> Are you sure it's one of those two? There are others out there.
> 
> I'll probably never use them. IMHO, (no body shoot me for saying this) if you feel the need to use one, there's a hole in your training somewhere.
> 
> ...



I don't use a martingale it was given to me as gift for my first horse but I was told it was to give me leverage over forwardness and or the attempt to bolt (Not that it would matter after reading all this on the internet I wouldn't use it whether either of these were a problem).


So a martingale does NOT give leverage over a forward or bolting horse?


----------



## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

If used correctly, neither a running martingale nor a standing martingale will force a headset. If they are adjusted so tightly that they are forcing a head set they're being used incorrectly and the "training" wont stick past taking the martingale off. Since many (most?) show classes don't allow the use of martingales, those who use them to create a headset are likely sadly misinformed and probably inexperienced...

I've often used running martingales in jumper classes, when adjusted correctly they don't put extra pressure on the bars of the mouth aka aren't useful in stopping a forward horse. It's there in case something goes fishy, horse throws his head in the air, etc. it's a "safety net."

In a sense a martingale will give you leverage- if your horse throws his/her head up in the air to evade the bit. I would never recommend using a martingale if this were a common problem that requires retraining but as a backup plan or a just in case I think they're 100% fine (running, martingales that is, I won't speak for standing) because, like I said, if it's adjusted correctly it isn't active unless it NEEDS to be.


----------



## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Rainaisabelle said:


> So a martingale does NOT give leverage over a forward or bolting horse?


I can't imagine how it would have to be adjusted to prevent bolting. Ive ridden some that could go rather fast, very strong, and for quite a distance with their head turned sideways even. Having their nose tucked even to excess would not have stopped them.


----------



## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

In Australia the most common sort of martingales are running martingales, so I'd guess that is what yours is purely because it borders on uncommon to see standing martingales/tie downs.

They are meant to limit how high your horse can throw his head which I guess could possibly help you stop a horse bolting because your horse can't evade the bit as much by throwing their head, however its not going to be that functional or useful for that. They are used a lot, especially in pony club, but in my experience about 90% of them are incorrectly adjusted so they do nothing.


----------



## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

Then I think a martingale will be simply useless to me and I have no place using it correctly since I didn't know what it was for in the first place.


----------



## BreezylBeezyl (Mar 25, 2014)

Rainaisabelle said:


> I don't use a martingale it was given to me as gift for my first horse but I was told it was to give me leverage over forwardness and or the attempt to bolt (Not that it would matter after reading all this on the internet I wouldn't use it whether either of these were a problem).
> 
> 
> So a martingale does NOT give leverage over a forward or bolting horse?


To answer this question, no. Martingales do NOT give leverage over a forward or bolting horse *when used correctly*. A bolting/spooked horse is just going to brace against it and run through it.

Barrel racers and jumpers are two prime horses that use tie downs/martingales, and part of their job is to go as fast as they can! :lol:

If you are using a martingale to control a forward horse, then you have cranked their head so far down they are likely to trip over themselves. And you are not using one correctly. :wink:


----------



## beverleyy (Oct 26, 2011)

alexischristina said:


> If used correctly, neither a running martingale nor a standing martingale will force a headset. If they are adjusted so tightly that they are forcing a head set they're being used incorrectly and the "training" wont stick past taking the martingale off. *Since many (most?) show classes don't allow the use of martingale*s, those who use them to create a headset are likely sadly misinformed and probably inexperienced...
> 
> I've often used running martingales in jumper classes, when adjusted correctly they don't put extra pressure on the bars of the mouth aka aren't useful in stopping a forward horse. It's there in case something goes fishy, horse throws his head in the air, etc. it's a "safety net."
> 
> In a sense a martingale will give you leverage- if your horse throws his/her head up in the air to evade the bit. I would never recommend using a martingale if this were a common problem that requires retraining but as a backup plan or a just in case I think they're 100% fine (running, martingales that is, I won't speak for standing) because, like I said, if it's adjusted correctly it isn't active unless it NEEDS to be.


Maybe I am misunderstanding this statement, but just curious where you found this information? I have never used a martingale in my life, and never plan to, but was always under the impression martingales were aloud as I see a large handful at shows using them.

I've been under the impression that running and standing martingales are aloud in classes as long as the money does not exceed $5000. Anything over that and only running are permitted.

And with hunters, again been under the impression that running are not banned, just listed as unconventional, but they are still legal - and standing are aloud.

Somebody correct me if I am wrong here ...


----------



## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

WillowNightwind said:


> To answer this question, no. Martingales do NOT give leverage over a forward or bolting horse *when used correctly*. A bolting/spooked horse is just going to brace against it and run through it.
> 
> Barrel racers and jumpers are two prime horses that use tie downs/martingales, and part of their job is to go as fast as they can! :lol:
> 
> If you are using a martingale to control a forward horse, then you have cranked their head so far down they are likely to trip over themselves. And you are not using one correctly. :wink:


I don't personally use a martingale and from the information I have gathered I never will but I was wondering what they were used for. I was TOLD they were used for leverage to slow a horse down but logically that seems useless considering if a horse wants to run it will run.


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

boots said:


> I can't imagine how it would have to be adjusted to prevent bolting. Ive ridden some that could go rather fast, very strong, and for quite a distance with their head turned sideways even. Having their nose tucked even to excess would not have stopped them.


Take this with a huge grain of salt. I've never used or even touched a martingale.​ 
However, with a snaffle and when the horse stretches out its head, a pull back applies pressure almost directly back into the molars. The horse can then easily ignore the pressure.

A curb rotates, so a pull back still applies pressure to the bars. 

If the martingale formed a V-shape with the horse's head stretched out, then it would allow someone to pull back, yet have the force on the bit pulling toward the bars. 

That will not FORCE obedience. I'm not very experienced, but I've had a ranch horse bolt with his nose held inches from my knee. He only turned short of a barbed wire fence when I tried to break his shoulder with the heel of my boot. So they CAN ignore anything in their mouth...but they are more likely to respond to pressure down against the bars than straight back against their molars.

Comparing the angles, it looks like this set-up directs the pressure 45 deg down and back instead of straight back. Since I've never used one, I don't know if this is relevant, and I apologize if it is not:








​ 
No bit forces obedience, but a curb bit makes it easier to strongly encourage the horse to slow by rotating its nose down and forcing its best vision closer to its feet. It also applies the pressure to a more sensitive area. The two combined are helpful unless the horse has learned to run into pressure. The set-up above might have the same effect. Just a guess...


----------



## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

beverleyy said:


> Maybe I am misunderstanding this statement, but just curious where you found this information? I have never used a martingale in my life, and never plan to, but was always under the impression martingales were aloud as I see a large handful at shows using them.
> 
> I've been under the impression that running and standing martingales are aloud in classes as long as the money does not exceed $5000. Anything over that and only running are permitted.
> 
> ...


I've always seen them allowed in over fences classes however I've never entered a flat class that allowed the use of martingales. Maybe it's to do with location. (I should have clarified flat classes, aka where headset is under critique).


----------



## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

No, you are not going to stop a horse that is bolting by just pulling on him.
Body control, able to dis engage the hips, take head away and shoulder control are the tools to use.
As mentioned, you can have the head and neck cranked in one direstion, and the horse can still run off in the opposite direction, following his shoulders. 
If a horse gets way behind the vertical, with nose near his chest, your reins are useless, as you have nowhere left to pull, and also why getting behind the vertical, evading the bit is such a serious fault
A horse can learn to run through any bit, as soon as his pain tolerance hits the next level, and if you use that kind of thinking, trying to control a horse either with a bit or some devise, you will sooner or later find the futility in that approach.
Less familiar with open English rules, but in western judged events, absolutely no martinagles of any kind are allowed, nor are cavassons .Another reason to train without these devises, as it is always best to train with what is legal to show with.


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Smilie said:


> ...A horse can learn to run through any bit, as soon as his pain tolerance hits the next level, and if you use that kind of thinking, trying to control a horse either with a bit or some devise, you will sooner or later find the futility in that approach.


Yes, a horse can LEARN to run thru any pain. But if you just have a horse who has learned to run thru a snaffle when scared, then a curb might work. It did for me & Mia. Would a martingale? Beats me. When I was trying to figure out what to do about Mia, I decided to try a curb bit instead. Worked great!

But yes, we all use various tools in getting a horse to learn obedience. We use whips, or crops, or spurs, or bits, or longe lines, etc. They are not substitutes for training, but they can be training tools.

Can't speak to martingales with any confidence. But I will change bits if I think one might train my horse better than a different one. Or bitless, if I thought that might work. Tack is just a tool. Even a saddle is a tool - it helps distribute weight better and helps a rider stay on. Plenty of folks learn to ride without one, but most of us like having one to learn on.


----------



## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

If you have a horse that has learned to bolt, teach it the one rein stop, starting at the walk and trot first, before the lope
Cheri had a great detailed description on another board, concerning the correct use of the one rein stop-which is an emergency stop
If a horse has holes in training, go back to a plain snaffle and put some body control on that horse, before riding him out. If you just rely out out pulling him, by inflicting pain in his mouth, You are putting a bandaid onto the true problem


----------



## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Piulling back on both reins is not a recommended method to stop a horse that bolts, even going to a 'stronger bit;

Here is the basic concept, and you can find many sites where trainers expand in detail on this concept. I just picked a paragraph from the site after the following paragraph that is taken from it:
A horse that bolts is scary indeed because it’s like being aboard a runaway train. Though your first impulse is to stop the horse by pulling back with both reins, that’s usually ineffective. A panicked, determined horse is simply too strong, especially since they tend to lock their jaw against the bit. A better way to regain control is to disrupt the bolter’s forward momentum by exerting pressure on just one rein instead of two. You may recognize this method as a pulley rein if you ride English or as a variation on the one-rein stop if you are a western rider. In either case, it’s valuable as a sort of emergency brake


Horsemanship How-to: Stop the Bolting Horse


----------



## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

This is good information thank you Smilie


----------



## EdmontonHorseGal (Jun 2, 2013)

bsms said:


> Comparing the angles, it looks like this set-up directs the pressure 45 deg down and back instead of straight back. Since I've never used one, I don't know if this is relevant, and I apologize if it is not:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


just to clarify, the picture that bsms posted is of a running martingale/training fork adjusted WAY too short and you should never have it this tight. when adjusting a running martingale, when the horse is standing, the rings that the reins run through should be held up under the horse's jaw by your hand, right under the throatlatch. that is the proper length. then you run you reins through.


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Smilie said:


> If you have a horse that has learned to bolt, teach it the one rein stop, starting at the walk and trot first, before the lope
> Cheri had a great detailed description on another board, concerning the correct use of the one rein stop-which is an emergency stop
> If a horse has holes in training, go back to a plain snaffle and put some body control on that horse, before riding him out. If you just rely out out pulling him, by inflicting pain in his mouth, You are putting a bandaid onto the true problem


Hmmm...sorry. My horse only bolted when she got scared on a trail. We did countless stops with a snaffle in an arena, and none of it carried over to the trail.

But after 3 rides of about 45 minutes each with a Billy Allen curb in the arena for training, she stopped in her tracks when she got scared on the trail. Then she discovered the scary thing went away from her when she stood still. Then she slowly started giving up her fear.

Band-aids work great on cuts. I wouldn't call a saddle a Band-aid for a rider who cannot stay on bareback. I don't call a crop a Band-aid for getting a horse to move forward. I don't call a helmet a Band-aid for a rider who is concerned about falling. And I don't call a well designed bit a Band-aid for a horse who has problems.

FWIW, George Morris recommends using a double twisted wire snaffle on a horse who bolts. The US Cavalry used double bits, in part so they could use the curb to help stop a horse. Either George Morris and the US Cavalry don't (didn't) understand how to train a horse, or else using a bit to improve a horse's stop isn't crazy.

Also: Pulling back (or bumping back) with both reins on a curb is a good way to stop a horse on a narrow trail. The pulley rein is very different from a one rein stop. It is also much more violent for the horse than a curb, based on my horse's reaction to using it. The ORS is a trained response to a cue. If the horse responds to its training, then it isn't really bolting.

Martingales - I apologize for posting a picture of something adjusted badly. That is the only way I can think of where a martingale might help with stopping a horse. If it is adjusted higher, then I don't see how it could be of any use.


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

As the OP is in Australia I think the martingale/showing thing is possibly the same as in the UK
You never use a martingale of any sort in a ridden class, running martingales are seen as accepted traditional tack in Working Hunter, a standing martingale is allowed but would make a judge wonder if the horse had a head flipping or rearing problems so not seen so much
Both are allowed in jumping classes other than the standing martingale isn't allowed in FEI jumping


----------



## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

I've never heard of a martingale (running, standing, or otherwise) being beneficial for a bolting horse. I'm willing to bet that if it were effective for that, one would have been suggested to me long ago. My horse is really good 99% of the time, but when he does act up, he locks his neck and runs away. Sometimes it's happy excitement like the first time I took him out on a cross country course. Sometimes it's overwhelmed excitement like the first eventing show I took him to (_slightly_ different atmosphere than the dressage shows we're used to ;-)). Sometimes it's just him being naughty and thinking that just because I let him trot up a few hills on the trail suddenly he can set his own pace whenever he feels like it. He even went through a phase where he tried getting out of work by running sideways across the arena (that was probably the scariest because I was pretty sure he couldn't see where he was going).

The best solution I've found is to circle him, making the circle smaller and smaller until he breaks into a trot. Now that I've experienced his 'bolt' a few times, I've learned that keep his neck soft helps me avoid it more or less completely, so now when we're in a situation where he might try it, I regularly 'check in' with him and ask him to bend and supple to make sure that he's not locking his neck. I can't see a martingale helping to keep the neck soft; if anything, I could see him bracing against a standing martingale as he ran


----------



## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

beverleyy said:


> Maybe I am misunderstanding this statement, but just curious where you found this information? I have never used a martingale in my life, and never plan to, but was always under the impression martingales were aloud as I see a large handful at shows using them.
> 
> I've been under the impression that running and standing martingales are aloud in classes as long as the money does not exceed $5000. Anything over that and only running martingales are permitted.
> 
> ...



I thought the rule had changed, so I looked it up to be sure. In hunters the USEF rule changed in April 2014 to allow running martingales. They are no longer considered unconventional. Martingales are still not permitted in the under saddle classes. 

In jumpers, standing martingales are allowed in classes that offer $25,000. Standing martingales are allowed up to 1.30m. However, Young Horse classes do not allow standing martingales. 

German Martingales are allowed in classes that offer no money and in classes at 1.20m and below. Juniors on ponies may never use a German Martingale.

Rules above are USEF rules.

The FEI only allows a standing martingale in the Children's competition, and I think the max height on the last day is 1.25m.


----------



## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

bmsm, you might have stopped a bolting horse by going to a curb, that has learned to use bolting, but if you had a horse that truly bolted out of blind fear, you would not have stopped in , just by going to a curb
Countless horsemen will prove you wrong on that point, and if you just rely on that curb stopping any further attempts at bolting, one of these days you will find out otherwise.
Yes, harsh bits have been used through the ages to try and physically control horses, but in the end, it is the mental conditioning of that horse and body control that controls a horse. Control his feet and mind and you control the horse
I will give you an example or two.
I showed Smilie in a big two year old futurity, thus that summer before I spent time hauling her to different friend's arenas. One was backed onto forestry, thus we went for a short trail ride-Smilie's first
The couple that owned the place were in the lead, I was in the middle and my friend rode behind me. Suddenly Smilie became very agitated, wanting to either buck or bolt, and at the same time, my friend yelled' hornets'
The couple ahead had kicked up aground nest of hornets, crossing a log.
Because I had body control on Smilie, even as she was being stung in several places, I was able to yell, ;whoa, check her head around and step off . No bit alone would have held her without that conditioning.
Another time, when she was three, I was riding in the winter hay field, next to us, where there was a stack or tarped hay bales
As we rode by that stack, suddenly several bales came tumbling out from under that tarp, with a coyote leaping after them. He must have been mousing
Anyway, sure looked like apredator leaping out! Yes, smilie took one or two big leaps, but again, I yelled, whoa, checked her head, and she stopped, versus continuing to try and 'leave the country'


----------



## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

They should be judiciously used. I'm not fond of them, BUT, my babysitter QH, "Ro Go Bar" (1982-2009, RIP) developed a bad habit of throwing his head while waiting to go on the field at CW Events. I didn't want the rider to get hit in the head, so I used a standing martingale on him, and it kept him from doing it. He didn't do it any other place, so that's the only place I used it.
Running martingales, IMHO, are a bandaid for softness and accepting the bit. ANY extra piece of leather can cause a wreck if your horse stumbles and puts a foot through the leather.
I think if I was lending my horse out to a lesser rider and my horse would behave better with a running martingale, then I'd use it.
Mine just gather dust.


----------



## maiblematrishon (Feb 26, 2015)

My lesson horse, who was an Arabian mare used a standing martin gale. She used it because she tossed her head and acting up while lunging. Also my friends mom Arab cross is a very consistent head tosser and uses one. It does help while riding her because she gets easily out of control when you don't use one.


----------



## CandyCanes (Jul 1, 2013)

bsms said:


> ​
> QUOTE]
> 
> Since this is western, I don't know if this is some other peace of equipment or.... But if its a running martingale, its definitely way to tight/ small. With a horses head at that height, the martingale shouldn't interfere.
> Just pointing it out.


----------



## beverleyy (Oct 26, 2011)

alexischristina said:


> I've always seen them allowed in over fences classes however I've never entered a flat class that allowed the use of martingales. Maybe it's to do with location. (I should have clarified flat classes, aka where headset is under critique).


Ah okay I did misunderstand then. I am in BC as well, and was very confused haha. My bad:lol:


----------



## beverleyy (Oct 26, 2011)

updownrider said:


> I thought the rule had changed, so I looked it up to be sure. In hunters the USEF rule changed in April 2014 to allow running martingales. They are no longer considered unconventional. Martingales are still not permitted in the under saddle classes.
> 
> In jumpers, standing martingales are allowed in classes that offer $25,000. Standing martingales are allowed up to 1.30m. However, Young Horse classes do not allow standing martingales.
> 
> ...


Ah okay, thanks for the clarification. I myself have not shown in 2-3 years, but my youngest mare is off doing all the big hunter shows while I am in school so I try to keep somewhat up to date on the goings on in the show world haha


----------



## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

As a western rider, looking at the photo posted previously, the running martingale/training fork is adjusted pretty tight. The "neutral" position for the running martingale was described above; horses head in a relaxed position the rings are adjusted to about the throatlatch.

I use one on occasion but I don't rely on one. Usually if the martingale has come into play either my hands are way out of position and it is a reminder for me to pay attention or my horse is out of position or over reacting which may be my fault or things have got a little hot and fast and it helps things stay in check.(roping off a colt outside)


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Smilie said:


> bmsm, you might have stopped a bolting horse by going to a curb, that has learned to use bolting, but if you had a horse that truly bolted out of blind fear, you would not have stopped in , just by going to a curb
> Countless horsemen will prove you wrong on that point, and if you just rely on that curb stopping any further attempts at bolting, one of these days you will find out otherwise....


Please do not try to tell me what I have experienced. She hasn't tried to run off in a couple of years now. Not even after she dragged her hind leg against a staghorn cholla cactus and filled it with spines. She jumped forward that time, and 3 quick bumps on the curb had her stopped in 30 feet or less. I then dismounted and pulled at least 100 spines out of her leg.

Yes, a horse CAN bolt thru ANY bit, as I have already agreed. However, some bits do make it easier to get the right response when a horse gets scared. George Morris - who probably has more experience than you - recommends using a double twisted wire bit on a bolter. I think a good western curb is a better option.

My horse squirted diarrhea with fear, so I'm pretty sure she was a genuinely SCARED horse. My daughter saw a few episodes and described her eyes as "rolling like a slot machine". If she tried to bolt in a snaffle, I could fight her with repeated turns to keep her from building up speed, but the FIGHT confirmed her fear - after all, wasn't the scary thing followed by a high stress event? So she was becoming MORE fearful with the snaffle. James Fillis (ever heard of a Fillis stirrup) and Tom Roberts, both highly experienced riders, had experiences that mirrored mine.

A Pulley Rein works well for stopping a horse who isn't bolting in blind fear but who is refusing to stop in a snaffle. It is, however, harsher on the mouth than my Billy Allen and no more effective. I say that because I've used both in that situation and seen how my horse responded. I'm certain the pulley rein stop HURT her. The curb showed no sign of causing her pain.

No device is the end all, and no device is a substitute for training. A martingale may or may not have a place in training a horse or aiding a rider. Various bits do have a place. I don't pick a straight curb for working on turns, and I don't see much reason to rely on snaffles only for working with a bolter. I did find an Australian saddle easier to stay in during a bolt than an English one. I guess it was a Band-aid for my riding, but I needed one.

I was on the verge of getting rid of Mia, even if it meant putting her down. A week later, we were riding out again...and she would stop when I needed her to stop. So switching to a curb may well have saved her life. It wasn't so much a "band-aid" as a tourniquet.

Lots of folks use martingales. I'll let others decide if they are useful for anything or not, since I've never used one. My experience with curb bits and all the heat I've taken from snaffle-only riders (or bitless ones) has led me to believe some devices might work better than the common wisdom of Internet forums suggest. Band-aids work great to stop bleeding. They have their place in life.


----------



## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

I have only used a martingale on young horses in training to encourage them to reach for the bit, once they are, off it comes. I think the longest stretch I have used one for has been maybe 5 rides? Other than that, I see no other use for it.


----------

