# Opinions on Gypsy Vanner



## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

In theory there is no reason why not. In reality, some horses are designed as athletes and others aren't. It is easier for an athletic type to do the fast work and jumps than a horse built to pull. In theory I could run 400m, in reality. . . :rofl: !!

I love the gypsy vanners. There is a stud in North Carolina I would just love to visit.

While it is correct to call a Gypsy Vanner a gypsy cob, not all gypsy cobs are Gypsy Vanners. Did you know? 

Gypsy Vanners Stud, vanners, cob, romany

http://www.stillwaterfarm.com/

:gallop:


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

My answer to the question would be an emphatic 'NO'

They are not built for speed which you need on the cross country even at lower levels the times are quite tight. 

The true gypsy vanner is for pulling wagons not for charging around the countryside.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Any horse can be trained do it, but not any horse can do it well. GVs are too heavy and slow to be good eventing mounts. Their stamina and speed are lacking, and both are needed in order to make a good eventer.


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## Lazycob (Mar 20, 2016)

Foxhunter said:


> My answer to the question would be an emphatic 'NO'
> 
> They are not built for speed which you need on the cross country even at lower levels the times are quite tight.
> 
> The true gypsy vanner is for pulling wagons not for charging around the countryside.


I dont see why not.
My gypsy Vanner Cob has proved he is speedy enough to fly round a cross country course. He is super intelligent and can turn on a six pence. Not all heavy horses are able to i know but i dont see why only certain breeds are able to compete at a high or even low level of eventing?


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## Lazycob (Mar 20, 2016)

ShirtHotTeez said:


> In theory there is no reason why not. In reality, some horses are designed as athletes and others aren't. It is easier for an athletic type to do the fast work and jumps than a horse built to pull. In theory I could run 400m, in reality. . . :rofl: !!
> 
> I love the gypsy vanners. There is a stud in North Carolina I would just love to visit.
> 
> ...


As far as i know he is a gypsy vanner. But i just wanted to see what people would say about either breed really.


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## celestejasper13 (May 16, 2014)

Can I get my gypsy cob around a cross country course? Yes- and we have a good time too

Could I win at any kind of affiliated event against serious competitors? No, as Foxhunter said, he's bred for pulling rather than jumping - he loves XC but he's a bit clumsy and slow compared to the thoroughbreds and sporthorses we'd likely be up against. 

Do what you and your horse enjoy. If that means going cross country, by all means go for it - any horse can give it a shot with the right attitude and training. However, you have to accept that some breeds just have a competitive edge in some areas. Is my cob ever going to be as fast, or jump as high, or have the stamina of a little sporthorse? Definitely not, but he can easily pull a caravan twice as heavy, and deserves some credit for that, it is what he was bred to do! Don't get me wrong, I think cobs are great - they're tough, versatile, strong and often have lovely temperaments, but they aren't top class athletes in every discipline. They're brilliant allrounders, they'll do a bit of dressage, a bit of showjumping, a bit of crosscountry if you ask it of them- but honestly they're often happiest plodding round the countryside, hacking or pulling a cart. I love my horse and I love what we do (or attempt to do!) but I won't try and talk him up into something he's not for the sake of proving a point.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

The answer to this totally depends on what level of eventing you want to do, like celestejasper suggested. 
Beginner Novice and Novice? Sure, you could definitely attend and probably be competitive! With lots of work, conditioning, and finesse you could probably even go higher.

But unless your GV is built like no GV I've ever seen, you're simply not going to be able to compete with the WBs you see at more advanced levels. There's just too much working against their anatomy..


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## Lazycob (Mar 20, 2016)

When i say eventing i dont want to do high level dressage, show jumping or cross country. But i just want to enjoy what i can do with him. I know against warm bloods i may not come any place but i am not that bothered where we come its just experience at the minute. We haven't been to any shows this year so far, except a few spider rides with some clear round jumping after, We got clear on them. 
Not many people at my local places where shows are own cobs so they actually watch me to see what he does which sometimes does put me under pressure.
But at the end of the day i do know what he was bred for which i have been told quite alot really. He got higher than many horses in chase me charlie coming 3rd at 3 foot 6. The winning person got to the next hole up. So he does not act his breed at all.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Lazycob said:


> I dont see why not.
> My gypsy Vanner Cob has proved he is speedy enough to fly round a cross country course. He is super intelligent and can turn on a six pence. Not all heavy horses are able to i know but i dont see why only certain breeds are able to compete at a high or even low level of eventing?


Same reason as not all people can sprint, hurdle, high jump etc, different body types make people and animals more suited to one thing rather than another. 

Gypsy cobs, great horses, but bred to pull, not run and jump, does it mean they can't do that? well no, of course some of them can and will, but not to a great level. 

People have been trying to breed the successful eventing horse for years, which is why we usually end up with the same sort of type, big enough to cover ground, but compact enough to cope with trappy jumps, heavy enough to have substance and strong bones, light enough to be able to gallop for miles. Sensible enough to listen, brave enough to take it on....

There may be the odd Gypsy type Cob who could take it on, I would think that the chances of a good Section D being successful is higher..they are just not built for it.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I have represented the Pony Club and the Riding Club on cobs, not Gypsy Vanners but good cobs and the time CC was always an effort for them. 

If you only want to do fun events then that is fine and of course you can and both should have fun, when you asked I took it that you were refering to affiliated events.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Foxhunter said:


> My answer to the question would be an emphatic 'NO'
> 
> They are not built for speed which you need on the cross country even at lower levels the times are quite tight.
> 
> The true gypsy vanner is for pulling wagons not for charging around the countryside.


Ditto!
I fail to see the fascination of riding these horses in disciplines where type of horse has proven themselves over the years.
They are, as stated, bred to pull, and while many people are enthralled with all that mane, tail and leg feathers, many people in Europe are laughing at the price these horses demand on this side of the ocean, just because they are still relatively 'rare'
When chosing a horse for any discipline, look as to which horses have dominated these disciplines over the years, with that body type having been selected for, under the criteria of proven ;form to function"


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

If you only want to do low level events then there's no reason why you can't do it on your cob - just understand the limitations and don't have aspirations for going to Badminton next year with him or you'll be disappointed
You do have to put a lot more work into getting them fit because it takes that bit longer but if you love cobs (which I also do) then no reason why you shouldn't try different things with him. He actually doesn't look a particularly heavy type in that photo you posted of him clipped out so I think you should be able to have some fun with him.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

The average one no but I am sure there are exceptions. I wouldn't even think about it unless you shave off all the hair. they get overheated to easily.


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## Idrivetrotters (Jan 5, 2013)

Most other cob type horses I would say "Probably with many factors to consider". I like a good cob, they are usually pretty sensible and good plodders who normally can get you around safely. Gypsy Vanners, are strikingly handsome, are very good at pulling and carting and have good for flare as a saddle horse. Now, a Vanner as an eventing prospect? I'd be cautious about it but nothing says you can't. You may have a unique Vanner who enjoys a good cross country gallop and have the ability to get at least passing dressage scores. 

Let me just throw this out there, it is so easy to say "I don't care where we finish as long as we are having fun" before show season, but it doesn't always last. Either competitiveness rears it's head or if you or your horse are struggling at even Novice level, the fun wears off quick. It is honestly not fair to a horse to have expectations they cannot fulfill. 

Vanners are beautiful draft horses, and that is their forte, and your Vanner may excel at Combined Driving which is Eventing for Driving. That may be more fun for both of you. Your horse can shine at what they are bred for and nothing like a good marathon phase to get the blood pumping.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

She has clipped him right out, he's actually more of a lightweight cob type than the sort of horse the US think of as a Gypsy Vanner


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

And they're proving themselves in the dressage ring too at the lower levels and not just with 'passable' scores either




 
In the UK these horses (Gypsy cobs and Vanners) were just riding cobs until the Americans 'discovered' them and started calling them a breed - the type used more for driving are typically shorter backed.
For years they've had a firm place in riding schools and trekking centres, the show ring, hunting and low level jumping, dressage and eventing and not confined to being driving horses at all


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## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

There was a bit more to the establishment of the Gypsy Vanner than just a random decision about a horse. It is an interesting story and a lot of thought and discussion went into it. (yes, this it the link I put on first page)

Gypsy Vanners Stud, vanners, cob, romany


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I want to second what "Idrivetrotters" said... I'm not sure how old you are, OP, but if it's you dishing out the money to compete and you're having to prioritize showing over equally or more important endeavors in your adult life, it can be rather discouraging to lose.
Just something to consider when selecting what level you're looking to start showing at


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

ShirtHotTeez said:


> There was a bit more to the establishment of the Gypsy Vanner than just a random decision about a horse. It is an interesting story and a lot of thought and discussion went into it. (yes, this it the link I put on first page)
> 
> Gypsy Vanners Stud, vanners, cob, romany


Don't forget that I spent all but the last 10 years of my life in the UK where these cobs originate from and grew up alongside many gypsy families and their horses and bought some very good one's off them over the years but a lot of what they bred was for the meat trade
At least the author of that site has it correct - the gypsies never called their horses/ponies by the prefix 'gypsy', the general horse public would call anything that was bred or sold by them a 'gypsy horse/pony and as they were usually skewbald or piebald at one time anything coloured was labeled a gypsy horse/pony
The term 'Vanner' was used to describe any driven working horse that was used for lighter trade not just for gypsy horses that pulled caravans
These coloured cobs have been around for years and years and if some Americans hadn't stumbled across them and decided to create a pedigree for them and attach various mystical stories to them they'd still be just coloured cobs
Ironically one of the gypsies who was first associated with the ridiculously high priced sales to the US and was held in high esteem by those he sold then too and treated like he was some sort of amazing person was in prison the last I heard after being found guilty of neglecting his horses


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## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

Well yes jaydee the cobs have been around forever, but it was only 1996 where the specific breed of Gypsy Vanner was established. Quite some time was taken to establish the particular type the new breed was to aim for. They are not the only breed that fetch high prices, look at some of the prices stated on hf for QHs and walkers!! I don't about this person who went to jail or even if he is relevant to this, he may have imported cobs but did he have anything to do with establishing a breed?

Did you even read the article?

Sorry, your last comment just comes across as narky.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

There is absolutely not way that a 'breed' can be established in 20 years. 

It cannot even be done with dogs in that time amd they can have two litters of multiple births a year. 

When you see just how these gypsy horses are kept, usually tethered, how they are hammered on the roads from two years up, then you would feel sorry for them.


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## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

I guess you didn't read the article either Foxhunter


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## Lazycob (Mar 20, 2016)

I didnt know this was going cause so much disagrement. I am only going compete a low level of any type of eventing, I've seen how people react when they get frustrated because their horse doesnt do something correctly more in the jumping ring then anywhere else. Yes, i have a competitive streak but thats only when i think we have a chance of getting somewhere in the show.


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## Lazycob (Mar 20, 2016)

But it's just really interesting to see what different peoples opinions are on a Gypsy Vanner or Gypsy Cobs.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

ShirtHotTeez said:


> Well yes jaydee the cobs have been around forever, but it was only 1996 where the specific breed of Gypsy Vanner was established. Quite some time was taken to establish the particular type the new breed was to aim for. They are not the only breed that fetch high prices, look at some of the prices stated on hf for QHs and walkers!! I don't about this person who went to jail or even if he is relevant to this, he may have imported cobs but did he have anything to do with establishing a breed?
> 
> Did you even read the article?
> 
> Sorry, your last comment just comes across as narky.


 Yes I did read the article and commented about one of the points made on it
The Gypsy cobs have become fairly established as a 'type' over many years so could qualify now as a breed though I know of many cobs that could pass as Gypsy cobs that are the product of a first cross between a draft and a pony though they are doing DNA testing now on anything wanting to be registered without certified breeding but the Vanners are not even close to being a breed. In the UK there are now people calling their cobs Vanners and other people calling exactly the same 'stamp' of horse a Traditional Cob - there are classes in shows in the UK for Traditional Cobs but they are a 'type' and not a breed because they can have any parentage they just have to 'look right'
Re. the man that's now in prison - he was one of the first to con Americans into paying crazy sums of money for his magical horses, I knew him (not as a friend) and his family for years and while he was selling this whole 'pure' line he would throw welsh cobs and Arabians in with his plain ugly looking little draft horses to get something that would sell for better money - the rest would go for meat, when the US market dried up and the EU passport restrictions stopped the meat trade he just abandoned those poor horses to whatever fate held for them - death by starvation for many
In the UK there's hardly a week goes by when some of these coloured cobs aren't found abandoned and neglected or dead, that's how much some of these 'Travellers' care for them 
Yes that does make me narky 
Sorry for going off track here but I will not buy all the romantic hype some of these people are trying to sell along with these horse because the real side of them is very different. It's just a marketing ploy and a lot of people have been sucked in by it
The other side of the picture and how they treat their horses


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