# Dreama's Home



## AtokaGhosthorse

CONGRATS on this new 'education' in your life.  It's a steep, but not insurmountable, learning curve if you didn't grow up on and around horses.... but I think you'll find it's one of the most rewarding things you can do with your time (other than be a mom and/or a spouse).


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## CopperLove

Since the fencing is still being worked on and the horses haven’t had any turn-out time yet, I thought it would be nice for Dreama to be able to get out and get some sun and grass this weekend. Hopefully within the next week the fencing will all be completely done and they’ll all be getting turn-out time to run their sillies out and we can get back to more work together.

I’ve decided it may be a long-shot, but I am going to attempt to find someone in the area who might teach evening riding lessons. My work schedule may conflict with any teachers I find, but it’s worth a try. I would enjoy having more instruction and gaining some confidence in the saddle.

For this weekend I just wanted to spend time with her and work on leading. Leading is something that we have a few problems with on the best of days, which I’m sure is because I am still learning how to lead and discipline reasonably and consistently.

Yesterday she was either pulling me around or ignoring cues to walk, with her head anchored down in the grass. I can’t blame her for being excited for new grass; we can have fun but we also have to listen. Mom handed me a crop and said, “Just tap her a little on the hip and tell her to move.” So, having seen training videos of people using a crop as sort of an extension of their arm to touch and give direction, I pulled the lead and when she didn’t respond, gave her a little tap.

As soon as the crop touched her hip she leaped forward. Shot away from me, bounced, ran. I blistered and tore open blisters in my left hand all in one motion before I had time to think about what was happening. I caught the rope in both hands and held on, and when she hit the end of the lead she turned to face me, ears raised in my direction and snorted. For a moment I was afraid I had just ruined our progress… was she afraid of the crop? Would she act out now because I had done something incorrectly?

Instead, she came back to me. Ears, head and neck relaxed. She followed me with slack in the lead rope, stopped when I stopped, made right turns without trying to walk through me. It was almost like, “Oh, I guess you really meant it, huh? Ok, I guess if I have to pay attention I will.” The only thing we still struggled with was backing up. I think the sudden burst of speed had more to do with pent-up energy than with fear.

Appropriate gloves are on my list of equipment now. The lead rope I was using was one my aunt said she used for lunging but I think she must use it for her minis because it wasn’t as long as a lunge line and it was a very plastic feeling, braided sort of material which is also a big part of why I skinned my hand. Lesson learned, not an appropriate lead for an energetic horse :lol:


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## greentree

That is a beautiful horse! So glad you started a journal!


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## LoriF

Dreama is beautiful. I"m glad that you have a chance to have this experience. Is your mom or aunt helping you any with your education with horses? It would be great if you can find the help that you need with her, it would make it so worth it entering into the world of horses. I can definitely see the arab in her.

Congrats, she gorgeous.


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## CopperLove

Thank you all 
@LoriF My aunt got me started in the saddle, but with having to move and quit her business and some other family things going on she isn't around as much right now. Our horses are all together though and I hope that when I've had some more experience we might be able to trail ride together; there is a trail around the back of Mom and Dad's property we plan to check out and see if it needs any clearing.

Mom is always present when I work with Dreama. She has a lot of good advice to give but it has been over a decade since she owned horses and rode, and has to be somewhat careful about getting pulled around too much because she has problems with some pinched nerves in her neck.

I contacted two different places today about riding lessons though, and I think both of them teach evening lessons! Either one would add extra travel after work but it would be well worth it. The one I am waiting to hear more back from about times/pricing is about an hour away from where I work, and about a half hour from where I live. I think it would help me tremendously to be able to ride during the week building my skill level, comfort and confidence while still being able to work with Dreama on the weekends. They also offer access to campgrounds, trail rides on their property, and access points off their property into trail riding areas of Daniel Boone National Forest, so it could be a very nice place to be involved with.


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## CopperLove

*Excellent News!*

I went ahead and called one of the places I had contacted about riding lessons on my lunch break today. If the weather stays good, I'll probably be visiting for the first time at the end of next week! It is really a ranch/campground business run by a married couple, and to top it off it is actually located in the same town I live in and I never knew it existed. It will take me a little over an hour to get there from the town I work in, but it is closer to where I live and will be a shorter trip home than some other places I looked at.

The woman I spoke with seemed very nice on the phone. She asked about my skill levels and goals, asked if I would be needing a lesson horse or if I owned my own horse that I wanted to work with. I told her I was very new to riding, and that I owned my own horse and had ridden her a hand-full of times but only at a walk and only inside a barn or a ring, and that I would be in need of a lesson horse as I wouldn't be able to transport my mare to lessons and also because I feel like I need to gain more skill and confidence as a rider to improve my handling of her.

They don't train riders and horses for showing; they are mainly focused on increasing a rider's skill and comfort level with the horse, and just general casual trail riding for fun. Which really is what I need, I'm not interested in any kind of showing at this point and if I do become interested I can look for other resources as needed. I told her my main goal in the end was to be able to ride trails comfortably with my mare. These beginner lessons will be $25/hour for private lessons which I think sounds very inexpensive comparatively. As I move forward if I am ready for more detailed lessons in handling/training after I am comfortable, her husband teaches those classes. That would be a different price level understandably, but I expect it would still be a very reasonable price based on their beginner rate.

Eventually if I wanted to, she said it would probably be a good idea to have some lessons with Dreama herself, and they could help me work out a way to transport her if needed. (Although I think my aunt would probably let us borrow her horse trailer if needed, or drive there with me.) I don't know what the pricing would be on something like this, I imagine I would have to board her there. But when I start my lessons I intend to ask about this so I can maybe plan and save money back for this in the future if things go well with these lessons.

Their property also is located right next to Daniel Boone National Forest Land. They offer various kinds of camping on their property, and also areas to park horse trailers and either trail ride on their property or trail ride in the National Forest. I am extremely excited for my visit, and hopeful that if things go well I might make some connections with other local horse people.


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## CopperLove

*Fencing is Up!*

Mom sent me these photos from home today. The fence is finally up and the horses get to play outside.



















The second was taken from her back porch. I told her she had very expensive lawn ornaments. :lol:

The reddish boy with the white marks in the second photo is "Apache", he belongs to my aunt's fiance and he is like a puppy-dog of the horse world... always wants attention and scratches and lets mom hug his face and stroke his nose... except he stands and beats his foot against his stall when you walk away and he isn't getting attention anymore. Hopefully, that won't be a problem anymore since he will have more time outside now to ease the boredom. They tried to sell him last Summer... mom loves him so much I've had thoughts about making an offer if they attempt to sell him again and IF I see him under saddle, and IF he reacted well to mom in the saddle. All just random thoughts. I'm happy to see them outside finally though. :smile:


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## whisperbaby22

Good luck with the lessons, the trainer sounds like just what you need right now.


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## CopperLove

*Lessons, Saddle problems and Activities*

I had my first riding lesson last week, which was mainly an intro to the property and meeting the owners and horses and getting some history on each other, I did ride for a little while on the horse I will start out with lessons on. I was surprised I hadn't heard of their business before, but as it turns out they are pretty new to the area. A husband and wife own the property. They said they have already done a few guided trail rides in the area but don't have many individual riding students yet. They are in a great location with access off of their property into national forest trails that are open to trail riding Eventually they will be offering camping on their property or trailer parking for visitors who want to ride into the national forest but have a secure place to leave their trailers/vehicles/belongings. I hope they do well in the area and I am excited to see them grow.

To my understanding, the husband has trained most if not all of their horses. They prefer mustangs and they have a young mare they are currently in the process of taming. Their riding lessons are mainly geared toward casual riding for fun and just getting comfortable in the saddle and learning how to handle the horses, which is really what I am in need of most at this point. They were very encouraging. There was some talk of eventually bringing Dreama for us to work with her specifically. The husband mentioned something about helping me work with her at no additional cost, but I'm not sure what the pricing would be on that. I assume it would be a boarding fee; I'm not sure if he meant the additional work would be included in the boarding fee, or if I would be paying boarding and lessons and the training work would be included in the lessons fee. I'm not sure yet if I would do that or if I could afford it, but I am going to keep it in the back of my mind and save some additional money back. If it's something I could afford, it would be very beneficial. Until I met this couple I really was unsure of any trainers in our area. I plan on taking lessons with them for a few months and seeing where it goes from there.

They also have two little boys, 4 and 5 or 6 I believe who were eager to have someone new to show everything to as well lol. The youngest wanted to show me their new blue healer puppies... and their two calves, and the horses, and the mulch pile, and their vegetable starters for the garden, his new boots, his bike he got for his birthday... and needed to know, did I have a horse? What kind of horse? What was her name? Did I have a dog? A house? Was I camping tonight? Why didn't I have cowboy boots? :lol: I have about as much experience with young children a I have with horses (hint: not very much) but it was pretty adorable and very welcoming.

I didn’t get to visit my parents last weekend, so this weekend was the first time I had saddled Dreama in probably a month, between the barn moving and not having a fenced area and some prior weekend engagements. We are working MUCH better together with leading. I am a lot more confident on the ground and she really pays attention to me without trying to yank me around and eat grass. However, all bets are off as soon as the saddle comes out. She refuses to stand still to put tack on. She’s done this since we got her and I don’t think it’s because she is scared of the tack or that it’s hurting her, because once you finally do get the saddle and bridle on she immediately relaxes and is ready to work. Once the tack is on, she will walk with me at my shoulder without a lead rope with only a few errors every now and then when turning. I am hoping that over time she will realize she can’t avoid the saddle and that moving around to avoid it will become tiresome and not worth the trouble. This is definitely something I am going to have to look into though, to see what I can do to train her to stand still. 

My aunt enjoys participating in “fun shows” that are close enough to home; the kind of horse shows that aren’t breed specific but typically performed western style for a variety of skill levels. I’m not sure how common these are in other areas. The one coming up has things like halter class, open pleasure, gated pleasure, some games on horseback, etc. She wants me to go with her and enter Dreama into a halter class. Even though I have no experience I think I may do it… they really are pretty casual shows and everyone seems to have a lot of fun. I think it would mean something to my aunt as well if I want to participate with her.


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## whisperbaby22

Yea, if possible I'd try the halter class. That could be both a learning experience and a lot of fun.


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## CopperLove

After all the saddle problems last weekend, I decided to try something different this weekend. I intended to ride this weekend and adjust my stirrups to some different lengths to see how the felt, but ended up with only Sunday as a free day and it rained off and on pretty much all day. Two of my friends/roommates from college came to visit (Really that's what took up my Saturday but it was worth it. We met up in a bigger city about an hour away from where I life and went shopping, and I found a friendly little locally owned tack shopped that fitted me for a helmet, so I have a riding helmet now.)

Since it was raining, and since I already know that she tries to move off forward when being saddled, I decided to put her tack on in her stall. I recognize that being in a closed space with a horse could be a really bad thing if they were to react poorly, but Dreama has never shown an inclination to want to bite or kick or react in fear to the saddle... she just wants to move forward and drag whoever is holding her lead. I also took a few precautions; both of my friends were animal science majors in college, one took riding lessons and one interned at an equine hospital so they both have some experience handling horses, so I had them on standby. Not that that would keep me from getting hurt, but they are a little less likely to panic than the average person and would be able to get help if something did happen. I also closed but didn't latch the gate, so that if she did swing into me hard and I got caught against the gate it would just swing open and I would be pushed out instead of leaving me pinned there.

So I tied her lead rope loosely to one of the posts at the corner of her stall and decided to put her bridle on first since it has always seemed like to me she calms down and accepts that we are going to do some work after the bit is in her mouth. It was like magic... it took me by myself minutes to do what took me and mom probably half an hour to accomplish last weekend. I was originally taught to put the bit and bridle on from the front... which helps me see what I am doing a little bit better, but my new riding instructors put bridle on standing beside the horse so I mimicked that. I guided the bit in with my left hand, while my right arm was cradled under her head while holding the top of the bridle in my right hand to guide it over her head. She still tried to duck and bob her head away a little, but in this position I was able to gently but firmly nudge her face back to where I wanted her to be. And sure enough, once the bit and bridle were in place and she had received neck scratches, she stood nicely for the saddle.

I'm sure it wasn't conventional, and I would obviously like to be able to move away from her stall to put her tack on. But it was the best we have EVER done. Then we went out and walked around a bit while it wasn't raining, back in when the rain started again shortly, took the tack off and had a treat and a brush.

Next weekend we are going to the horse show. I was going to go and watch anyway, but since my aunt had mentioned it a few times and we are doing so much better on the ground, I'm going to show Dreama in the halter class. I'm sure neither of us is show material but it's just for fun, the people there are pretty nice and I think it will be a fun activity with my aunt and I'm pretty excited to go and see all the other riders. :smile:


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## whisperbaby22

Good for you in trying out a different approach. That's the challenge with horses, always trying something different to see if it works.


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## CopperLove

The halter class adventure this weekend turned into an absolute nightmare.

This is a picture from shortly after we arrived before things went sideways, just giving a quick brush before the three halter classes we entered in. She seemed interested in things but by no means fearful or panicked at this point.










We had no expectation that she would perform perfectly, this was only for the experience and to support the local saddle club’s show. It was $7 per person to get in the gate, and $5 for each halter class we entered, my aunt was obviously going to spend more money to enter some of the actual riding classes later that night, spend money on concessions etc. and just hang out. Even if I had to stay with Dreama at our trailer after our classes were over and brush her and feed her treats, I’d have considered that a successful evening.

During the first halter class I couldn't get her to stand still with me at the end for judging. I had to circle her a couple of times but then she stood with me. When leaving the ring she took off after my aunt’s gelding, Apache. She doesn’t do this to me at home anymore… we had made so much progress getting her to wait patiently when her gate is opened instead of pushing through me to get out, walking beside me instead of ahead of me, backing up when asked, etc.

I took her outside to walk her in circles (the arena was set up indoors, just basically round pen gates set up to make an arena with dirt poured inside for a softer surface.) I told my aunt I couldn’t go in again if I couldn’t control her, and my aunt offered to walk her in the mare halter class. So I held Apache while she went in with Dreama. Dreama stood slightly better, but on the way out of the ring did the same thing to my aunt… took off at a trot with no regard to the amount of pressure on the lead rope to come back to Apache.

At this point we were realizing that along with the added pressure from being in a new environment, she was displaying the kind of behavior I’ve heard labeled as “buddy sour.” These two horses are stalled next to each other and seem friendly, and the gelding will call to her sometimes as they leave the barn but she generally ignores him when she is in the fence and he’s left behind. But I also thought a big part of it was anxiety over being in the ring indoors. So I dropped out of the last class which was “open halter” on the grounds that if neither of us could control her she didn’t need to be in the ring with other horses and people. I thought being outside away from everything would be better for her.

So I took her outside, circled her a few times and then walked back to the trailer. In hindsight I should have just kept her feet busy circling her near our trailer.

I almost had her trailer tied when two men rode by at a pretty good pace on gated horses. She screamed, swung around the end of the trailer to try to follow them and pushed me with her. When she caught on the half-tied rope she swung back to go the other way and kicked me. It was one of those head-high bucking kicks that caught me in the arm instead of the face because I had reflexively raised my arm in defense when she pushed me. Before I could get back to her after being shoved and kicked, she had already twisted the other way and the half-tied rope slipped and she was gone.

When she realized those weren’t the horses she was looking for, she cut to the left and ran back inside the building. I am eternally grateful that there weren’t many people around yet because the halter class is held earlier than the main part of the show, so no one was really indoors yet except the handful there specifically for halter class. The next class my aunt was in hadn’t started so she was still standing close to the door we had exited with Apache. Once Dreama found him she stopped and we caught her there.

At this point we took both horses outside and I walked Dreama in circles until we were ready to load her. We ended up loading both horses and going home because we were concerned she was either going to stand in the trailer and scream for Apache the entire show, or potentially hurt herself in a panic inside the trailer.

I met her former owner. Mom has her on Facebook and she had come back to KY from West Virginia to see us. I just remember apologizing over and over, and her hugging me telling me it was fine, we were both just scared, and that she was glad to see her with someone who was trying to do something with her, that she looked so good, etc.

I know very well it was not fine. I keep trying to think of something scarier, but I think that is the scariest thing that has ever happened to me in my life. Not that she pulled me, or pushed me, or kicked me, but the fact that she got loose where other people were involved. It ended up being ok because she was only looking for Apache and found him quickly but it could have been a lot worse. I woke up Sunday feeling depressed and like my right side had tried to fight a freight train. My right knee was even stiff and I’ve no idea how that happened.

But I got up, went back to the barn, got in her stall and put her saddle and bridle on. Again it was raining and the wind blowing hard so no real time outside together. I don’t care what the weather is like, even if I can’t ride or can only ride in the fence I’m going to have a bridle and saddle on her every weekend until we both die.

After my mood wore off, I’ve become determined that's our last dance like that. The focus of this week's ranch visit/riding lesson is going to be a discussion and a quote from my instructor on what the actual price would be for bringing her to the ranch for a month or two to work with there and get a tune-up on her training and to teach me how to better handle her while continuing riding lessons. If we are ever going to trail ride together, away from horses she knows, she needs some instruction that I clearly can’t give her. The husband at the ranch is firm with his horses but not cruel, and clearly enjoys what he does a lot, so I think it would be the perfect thing for both of us.


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## CopperLove

Easter weekend I only spent Saturday evening and Sunday until around 7 or 8 p.m. at my parent's. My partner and I both got time off for Good Friday and it was my birthday weekend, and I just wanted a few days to relax. But Sunday I knew I needed to get back out with Dreama. Using some advice I'd received on horse forum about leading, I took her out into the fence to work on staying behind my shoulder at a reasonable distance while leading. Aside from a few reminders to stay behind my shoulder though, she really does not do badly being led around at home now. As far as bringing her into new situations, I'm not sure how to work on those reactions except to remain more calm myself.

Then I led her out of the fence. It was time to see if taking her away from the barn was going to cause her to want to turn and fight me to run back to Apache. I wanted to walk her with me up the trail that I would eventually like to ride on.

Even going past the area at the top of the hill where the mini horses are, she didn't do badly. She wanted to stop to look at them but followed when asked. She followed me up along the trail into the woods without ever a look behind her. She was alert naturally curious about this new place but pretty relaxed. Most of it is a pretty wide trail but in narrow places where trees had fallen over or weeds had grown up, she carefully and patiently picked a path with me, letting me lead without trying to push past me or spooking and trying to turn back.

It was kind of fun, and good exercise to just go on a hike with a horse. Not at all the fiasco I had expected it to be. We turned back for home and her pace didn't change, no over-eagerness to be back at the barn. I specifically stopped a few times on the way back and let out some extra rope to let her eat some grass. I wanted to enforce our rules about leading, but also let this be a "good" experience for her with me. I let her back in he fence by herself. When she leaves the barn on foot without the other horses she seems fine, but if Apache leaves the barn without her she calls for him.

Later I got her saddle on and got on her back inside the fence for the first time since we moved barns. That was an experience, and she definitely turned back toward the barn at that point. But she moved off forward up the hill first and didn't go back toward the barn until I turned her around in that general direction. She wasn't going particularly fast but she was trotting when I definitely did not want to trot and didn't seem to have a concept of "this means stop". She stopped in front of my aunt's fiance (who was also standing at the gate that leads back to the barn), but she didn't try to bolt or push past him. She seemed a little nervous but just stopped there. I got off and walked her with her tack on instead.

I am starting to have my doubts that she was ever ridden as much as my aunt believes she was (keeping in mind we have no backstory on this horse prior to the previous owner who rescued her from the pound, she was only guessing based on her reaction to having someone on her back in the old barn and the ring there.) I think part of her behavior under saddle is being "stubborn" and knowing that I am nervous/have very little experience. But I also think there was some genuine confusion in her behavior on Sunday. I didn't get out to the ranch for lessons last week because I was busy with work travel and then they had family coming in for the holiday weekend, but I am interested to see this week what some time boarding and training with them would cost and what the opportunity of being able to work with her more through the week could do for us.

Here's our happy cow with her mouth full again.










(Nevermind that the part of the backyard that isn't fenced looks like something out of a horror film :lol: )


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## whisperbaby22

Unless it's a horse that you already know well, it's best to never believe what sellers tell you. Your feeling that she hasn't been ridden much is probably the case.


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## CopperLove

whisperbaby22 said:


> Unless it's a horse that you already know well, it's best to never believe what sellers tell you. Your feeling that she hasn't been ridden much is probably the case.


True. It's not a matter of being misled by a seller though in our case though. Her previous owner rescued her from the pound (literally from the local pound, which is not set up to take large animals.) We know that she only rode her once during the year and a half or so she owned her. Before that, we don't know her history. My aunt had taken in some other rescues around the time her old owner had to move, so she took Dreama in as well intending to re-home her. But we just liked her and she stayed. My aunt was guessing her experience based on how she reacted to being back under saddle at the old boarding barn and in the ring outside. But my thought is that her easy behavior there could have been because it was such an easy path to follow... up and down the aisle, or in a circle in the ring. I could always be wrong though. But if she is lacking experience herself then my lack of riding skill as a beginner certainly doesn't help make things less confusing for her. If she is just inexperienced, that is at least something I'll have access to help with my instructor.


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## whisperbaby22

You mention liking the horse and that is the most important thing. Every horse has baggage. As long as you have a connection with her she is the horse you are meant to have at this time.


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## CopperLove

@whisperbaby22 Oh yes! A horse that's lived for who knows how long without being asked to do anything? Definitely expect there to be problems. Eventually I'd like to trail ride with her but we're still quite a distance away from that, not just because of her but because I'm still learning as well. It may even be another horse that I eventually reach my goals with, who knows at this point. But it has been interesting to see her progress and I enjoy having her. Mom loves being able to have horses around again after so many years. Her last passed away when I was a 4th grade student and my grandfather kept a few horses on the property after that, but it's been a long time since we were able to have horses there. I think with time and work we could be a good pair, but it's been worth it even if I'm wrong and she were to eventually just being a pasture pet. :smile:


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## CopperLove

I didn't get to be home to witness this, but mom sent me this photo this week:










I covered the rider's face for privacy reasons, but they're someone I knew in school who also happened to be the person who helped start one of my aunt's horses under saddle sometime last year. I've seen him work with horses and really like his demeanor about things and how he handles them. He offered to ride her and see how she behaved and see what she really knew, and I was honest with him that I'd been on her back but had no idea how she would behave outside the fence. He rode her all the way off the back of my parent's property and back twice and said that she didn't do badly at all. He said that she's not what he would call a "beginner" horse but that he thinks she would make a good trail horse. (Although my aunt said there was some cussing involved as they headed up the hill for the first time :rofl I was thrilled to see how she did with an experienced rider for the first good ride she's had in probably two years.

With time and work and help from my instructors, I hope to be able to bring my skill level up and improve her training so that we meet in the middle eventually and I learn how to handle her.

This week at my lesson I switched horses and rode a mare who goes bitless... her bridle just looked like a rope halter with reins tied under the chin. I thought it was pretty awesome! I think I enjoyed riding her even more than their gelding. Although I try to be careful with my hands, I know that I'm not particularly graceful or skilled with my cues on the reins yet and sometimes that contributes to my nervousness. I felt a lot better with the bitless halter style bridle. I still was not trying to yank around on her face but I didn't feel as worried about it.


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## whisperbaby22

Well this is good news. Sounds like she really is getting along fine.


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## SueC

Subscribing and catching up - this is going to be a really interesting horse / rider adventure story! :cowboy:


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## CopperLove

@SueC I'm afraid probably pretty boring for now aside from the standard doing everything the wrong way before figuring out the right way stuff :wink: Knowing people now who own land that butts up against national forest land though, I hope one day to be taking trail photos as well though


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## SueC

Ah but you see, the journey is more important, and much more enjoyable, than even the destination!  From your own perspective, this is going to feel like a grand adventure, because it is. And we all had beginnings, and are happy to go back and share with people who are just starting the road themselves.  It's to my mind the really amazing stuff in life - far more amazing than winning the Grand National or whatever! ;-)


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## CopperLove

*On Hold*

Sigh. No riding this week or next. The collective schedules of people and horses in my life have not added up well.

Now that Dreama has shed out her winter coat she is so shiny, and it is starting to look like she has some kind of dappled pattern on her sides that wasn't visible before under the winter coat. It's lovely and I wish I had snapped a picture of her in the sun this weekend but I didn't have my phone on me while we were outside.

I didn't even saddle her this weekend. I usually do to keep her accustomed to the process since it's something she had problems with at the beginning, but I still have to stand with her tied in her stall for that since I don't have a suitable place outside to tie her. There were some things causing some irritation this week that made me decide not to push her, even though she's normally easy to handle in her stall.

She was in heat... I believe my aunt's favorite mare was also in heat although I didn't really check to see. Her mare, Gracie, was pacing and calling incessantly if another horse left the barn without her (even another mare) which she usually doesn't do (she was also very interested in trying to see what the mini stallion was doing, and when she isn't in heat she rarely pays him any attention.) Another of my aunt's mares is due to foal this month and is very grumpy about her life right now. So between being in heat herself, having another mare making a lot of noise and yet another mare snapping at any horse that goes by, Dreama was understandably a bit antsy. I was also exhausted from a particularly busy week at work. Since neither of us was at our best, I decided it was better to just take it easy this weekend.

Another peculiar thing that has caused some concern is that she is bagged up on one side of her teats almost like a mare ready to have a foal (which unless something is very off, is impossible since she's in heat and has been in heat monthly since we got her in December.) I remembered reading about this happening to another HF member's horse recently, and that member specifying that their mare had NOT been eating clover... Mom had just got done telling me on Saturday that she liked to watch Dreama while she was out to pasture and that she really liked going from patch to patch of clover. I put the two bits of info together, looked it up, and found that in some mares, eating clover can cause mammary swelling or lactation.

I'm uncertain what to do about this, but the vet has an appointment to come out this Friday anyway and said since her behavior was otherwise normal that it didn't sound like an emergency and he would look at it then. Our original appointment was to make sure that she has had all of her vaccinations and any other test or anything she might need before being moved. Her previous owner was very nice, as I've said before, and assured us she was "caught up on everything," but I've come to understand that phrase means different things to different people and I would just like to have her checked out before I move her to the ranch for a few months.

I won't be having riding lessons for a few weeks because the wife who mostly handles my lessons started a new job and has to be away for training for the next two weeks. I think something happened that changed her schedule because previously I thought she had mentioned being here this week.

***

This is completely un-horse related, but I have started to understand that I struggle with some anxiety as part of the symptoms of a certain ladies' time of the month... like clockwork every month for a few days, I feel anxious, fearful I've done something wrong but can't quite put my finger on it, like I'm not getting enough done at work and at home, and sad or afraid that I am suddenly annoying my friends and acquaintances and that they no longer want to see or speak to me. This month, this time and misplaced set of feelings happened to coincide with my instructor's sudden change of schedule so of course my mind immediately wrapped me up in thinking that I am a burden and they are suddenly not going to want me back at their property for some reason.

Which makes no logical sense at all and now that I'm starting to feel a bit better, it's pretty laughable. They've always been very friendly, invited my boyfriend to come out and watch the lessons if he was interested, talked to me about their kids and their lives, and I've always paid them on time. Even if they had not been genuinely friendly, this is part of what they do for a living; aside from paying for lessons, they've already given me the printed quote and price-breakdown for boarding Dreama with them, continuing training and lessons. They even offered to drive the hour to and back from my parent's property to help move her if I hadn't had access to a horse trailer. Despite all this, when my mind and emotions aren't at their best, I still have a tendency to feel like a burden because of my lack of experience (which is also a very backwards way of thinking since the reason I'm taking lessons and seeking help training is BECAUSE I am inexperienced :lol: )

So, these are the kinds of things I end up having to talk through with myself. Then in a few days... poof. Those irrational feelings are gone and I'm back to my usual self. I know this is not an uncommon problem, but I don't remember being like this as a teenager... or perhaps I was just too distracted by everything else as a teenager to take notice of the patterns in how I was actually feeling. I know how to recognize during these times that what I'm feeling isn't entirely accurate and that I just need to try to relax and not worry so much about things. It's also not as if I spend these days in a complete state of misery; I can go out and do normal things and be happy but I am just more worried and down about things than usual.


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## whisperbaby22

This just sounds like a normal "getting to know yourself" moment. As humans, we are often up and down, it's just part of who we are.


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## CopperLove

whisperbaby22 said:


> This just sounds like a normal "getting to know yourself" moment. As humans, we are often up and down, it's just part of who we are.


I think you're right. I definitely don't think it's a steep enough emotional cycle to worry about, pretty normal stuff for lots of people. It's inconvenient, but it's been interesting and useful learning to recognize when and why I'm feeling that way.


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## SueC

@CopperLove, I've actually just listened to a podcast on the topic of hormones, moods, anxiety, PMS etc and maybe it might interest you.

It's this particular one:

https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/ladies-we-need-to-talk/the-secret-life-of-hormones/10222156

...but there's another in the recent list on PMS and two on anxiety and its links to the female cycle etc:

https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/ladies-we-need-to-talk/

Hope that's in some way helpful! :hug:


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## CopperLove

@SueC Thank you! :hug: I will definitely listen to these later. It would be a nice slow day to put my headphones on and listen while I work, except my headphones are conveniently lying on the dresser at home, as if they do me any good there :lol: I think it's usually good to hear others talking about these kinds of things. Even if you do learn to recognize that these feelings are pretty normal, it still makes you feel less isolated to hear it's an issue that others deal with as well. Looking back, I feel like some of my stress in college could have been connected to this as well, although I feel like it has developed somewhat with age.

That's one of the things that I love about working with the horses. Even though I'm a scaredy-cat by nature and still often feel physically stressed in the saddle, in that moment all of my attention has to be on what I'm doing with that animal. I recognize that I can and will get better at riding, and even if whatever we've practiced initially makes me nervous I always feel accomplished afterward. For whatever span of time I'm with that horse, I have to let everything else go; work, marketing, budgeting, housekeeping, etc. It's impossible to worry about anything else when you are engaged in physically learning something like riding, or even just handling on the ground.


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## whisperbaby22

And that's what makes horsemen. It's that "tuning in" place where you learn.


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## SueC

It takes much more bravery to learn to ride as an adult, than as a kid... children are still immortal, and don't tend to think about what can go wrong as much! ;-) It actually is a very weird and dangerous thing, when viewed objectively, that any person would think it's a good idea to ride on the back of huge, 500kg animals capable of race speeds and _creative_ movements.... when there are more controllable, predictable forms of transport around these days... 

I love podcasts - and our ABC is quite fearless at making these sorts of productions, that we really benefit from even though there is so much social taboo about some of these...


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## CopperLove

SueC said:


> It actually is a very weird and dangerous thing, when viewed objectively, that any person would think it's a good idea to ride on the back of huge, 500kg animals capable of race speeds and _creative_ movements.... when there are more controllable, predictable forms of transport around these days...


One of my instructors, the husband, is fond of saying "Horses aren't crazy. People are crazy." When you look at it that way, it's very true. :lol:

Also, apparently the joke's on me... A couple of different well-meaning folks have estimated Dreama to be anywhere from 12-16 years old. Her previous owner said she was 20 but I have never believed she was 20 years old and I have no idea where they got that estimate from. The vet that came out Friday said he would estimate her to be about a 7 year old :rofl: That would explain some of this energy and sass. If she is indeed 7 and she's not been ridden regularly in 2 years... that means she was maybe 5 the last time she was regularly under saddle. If I recall correctly they don't typically break a horse until they're 2 or 3? And if she ended up at the pound, who knows if she was even being ridden regularly before then.

Here's the shiny sass pretending to eat a tree so she doesn't have to look at me, and then not wanting to take a photo with me as it was interfering with her grass-eating:



















She also was not bagged up by the time the vet came. He examined her and said that since the swelling had gone down and she was experiencing no other symptoms he didn't think it was anything to worry about. He said it could be clover, some fescue, or even perhaps a bug bite. As with anything out of the norm, it will be something I keep an eye out for in the future. Despite her normally energetic self, he said that she was the best patient he'd had all day; she stood perfectly for her vaccinations and for drawing blood.


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## CopperLove

This past Sunday we finally moved Dreama out to my instructors' family Ranch. I feel very relieved to have the move over with and have her closer to me.

I only visited her once this week. I wanted to give her time to settle in and then got wrapped up in some other things (One evening this week I drove an hour away and an hour back delivering a baby rabbit to a licensed wildlife rehab.)

She's just settling in, they handle her every day but nothing too taxing while she's adjusting. Next week she will be getting a hoof trim. I know that she has been over-due for a trim, but at home we kept thinking we would wait and do all of our horses together when my aunt's farrier came... and that just never happened. By the point that I realized it wasn't going to happen, we were so close to moving her that I just didn't say anything about it, and discussed with my instructors prior to moving that she would need a trim shortly after arriving (the husband is a farrier so it's very convenient that the service is available on-site.) He said that despite being a little over-due, she looked like she had healthy feet overall. When she does return home to my parent's property, I will call my vet to find a farrier of my own if the one my aunt uses doesn't want to travel for one horse vs. groups, or we can haul her back to my instructors when she needs a trim.

I brushed her and gave her some carrots. In the second picture she was asking... if you're done brushing me, why are we still standing here? :lol: But I like how it shows how shiny she's gotten after completely shedding out.



















While I visited the husband told me he thought she was an Arabian and Saddlebred cross. Obviously we'll never know for sure, but it was interesting to hear his thoughts on it. He also asked if she had ever been shown and I said I had no idea. He said just from working with her on the ground, she picked her feet up like a horse that had had pads on her front feet in the past like someone was trying to enhance her natural gate for some kind of showing. Again, we'll never really know and that's ok. But it could be part of why she ended up at the pound... perhaps her original owners were trying to train her for something that she never did as well at as they had hoped? Then if they sold her on, she might have been too high-strung for the next person, and passed along until someone could no longer afford her care and took her to the pound.

They seemed fairly enthusiastic about her. He said that her pushiness on the ground doesn't last very long once he works with her a few minutes. I've also experienced this. Even though she is a bit pushy, she does act a bit differently once she realizes there is something she's being asked to do. Although she's stubborn, it does seem like she gets bored just being in the yard or in her stall and looks forward to doing something different. She'll always be a high-energy horse, she just needs some training and a job to do, and I am relieved to have adequate and enthusiastic help.

Now, THIS little guy is mom's new pet:










Not the best photo. I want to help brush and braid his big bushy main and take more photos. Aunt decided she would sell her minis, and dad bought Hercules for mom because they didn't want to see him go anywhere. I think they said he's 31 inches tall at the shoulder. He's just to be a pasture pet, but he's pretty stinking cute and mom gets to spend time with her own horse again after years of not owning.


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## whisperbaby22

They both look great.


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## CopperLove

*Surprise*

I realized belatedly that I misspelled both "gait" and "mane" in my last post. Please believe me, I do know the difference. I just type fast while on break and clearly don't think hard enough about what I'm typing. :icon_rolleyes: It's embarrassing how many times I look back on what I've written and think about how many mistakes there are.

I don't think I'll have any new photos because I doubt I'll be able to coordinate handling my phone and riding simultaneously at this point, but my instructors have invited me to meet them at a camping spot Friday after I get off work to trail ride in the national forest area. :loveshower: Not on Dreama yet, but with one of their horses.

Dreama is still full of surprises... after everyone who has looked at her or ridden her since she came to us talking about how she isn't a "gaited" horse, one of my instructors sent me a video of her Sunday prancing down their road pretty as you please under saddle doing what they called racking. (I don't know enough about the different gaits that different breeds of horses are capable of to really know what I'm seeing, but it's pretty clear that she does something outside of the walk/trot/canter.) I had never seen her do that, ever. To my understanding, that likely means she's not Arabian at all since Arabians don't have that kind of gait? Again, it matters very little to me what kind of horse she is since I really only want to trail ride, but it's interesting to learn new things about her.

They've already made so much progress on the ground with her. She's still curious and high-energy but a lot less pushy. It's a lot easier for me to direct and correct her now that someone more experienced has been improving on her training, and they've been incredibly nice to work with.


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## SueC

An Arabian with a good fast walk can cross into racking, I think... also, a horse can be 3/4 Arabian and have a gaited grandparent (or even further back) and inherit their gaitedness from them. It's to do with a suppressor gene. Let me just dig it up for you...

This is some basic information I wrote for someone who queried pacing versus trotting, and general Standardbred gaits. It cross-applies to other gaited horses, especially the second link...

https://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/trotter-800329/#post1970667765

https://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/trotter-800329/#post1970670599


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## CopperLove

@SueC That conversation is really interesting and could explain some of her behaviors...

While she's not the kind of horse that would have been used for racing, my instructors think that aside from her time out of work, whoever previously trained her wasn't as focused on ground manners as they were on getting in the saddle and going, and pushing her to display that gait. Aside from her breed, that could be where some of this "Go. Go, yes? Go now?" comes from.

The husband said that he trail rode with her with the rest of the family that day, then when they got back he took her out on her own to see how she would do working away from the other horses and she naturally fell into that gait on flat ground. For his family's personal horses he prefers the mustangs, but he's trained a variety of horses, including Paso Finos and Walking Horses. So I suppose he knew what to ask her for, whereas the young man I went to school with who came out and rode her before did not (which is also interesting to me, because he typically rides gaited horses and specifically asked Mom if she knew Dreama WASN'T gaited.)

On her own when she's not under saddle I've never seen her do what they showed me. Without someone on her back she breaks into trot or canter. My aunt's walking horse, by comparison, will naturally fall into different gaits with no rider on her back.

The horses I've been taking lessons with are trained in a western style, and do most of their work on a loose rein, and they neck rein. I'm not really sure how different it will be learning to ride something that has another gait? My instructors have just said we will see how she goes more naturally and work from there.

I was so excited when I went to see her yesterday. I think my instructor thought I was excited to find out she was gaited (gaited breeds are much more popular in this area it seems.) I could care less about that. I was just so happy to see her improvement :happydance: She seems more well mannered but also more relaxed. The fact they've done so much for her in two weeks highlights my lack of experience even more, but I'm so glad to see her doing well and really happy that I found people to work with both of us.


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## CopperLove

*First Trail Ride*

My first trail ride ended up being a 4+ hour trip through national forest trails. I couldn't be more happy with my first time out! :smile:

We didn't bring Dreama this time. I rode Winchester instead, the mare that goes in what a believe to be a bosal. It gave me a chance to really practice relaxing, focus on my position sitting and learn to ride the ups and downs on a trail because aside from steering her occasionally to make sure she wasn't about to scrape me off on a tree, Winchester was more than happy to pick her way through the trail on a loose rein. Although it still isn't pretty, I can now at least ride at a trot without feeling like the world is coming out from under me.

While I did not get any of the obligatory horse ear photos, I did get a few shots of the area while I was waiting for my instructors to arrive. (From here forward I think I'll just note the wife as KL and the husband as ML when not referring to them together. It seems less confusing to me than saying the wife, the husband, the ranch owners repeatedly :lol: They are a wife and husband pair who own the ranch and who teach me and board Dreama.)

This state park was only about a 40 minute drive for me from work or home, and is very nicely maintained. KL and ML hadn't camped there before but they had visited to see what the area was like. The campsite area available to book for horse trailers was a surprisingly new facility, with a restroom and shower area available. The only complaint we had was that the area to tie the horses wasn't very well shaded until evening, it seemed like the posts and lines could have been positioned closer to the tree-line to provide some better coverage. I would like to go camping there in the fall with or without horses. There are many other trails that are for hikers and bicycling I'd like to explore.

I felt a bit like I would be intruding on their family camping time, but they both assured me that wasn't the case and they would be glad to have me. It actually ended up being good that I came out to ride on Friday, because KL came alone with the kids and horses because ML was helping the man they buy their hay from get hay put up and didn't arrive until way later in the evening after I had already left. Her stepsons were with her in addition to the two younger boys, which totaled 4 boys on the trip. KL said she was perfectly comfortable going ahead and getting the campsite set up with them and the horses, but that she probably wouldn't have ridden out with all four of them without ML. So while I'm not much help on horse-back, I suppose it's still nice to have an extra adult to bring up the rear and keep an eye on things on the trail.


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## CopperLove

*2nd Trail Ride, 1st Lesson on Dreama*

I keep meaning to update and keep pushing it back, not finding the right words. Horse related endeavors seem to be going pretty well for me but other parts of life have been a bit rocky and it's been difficult for me to think of writing an update with any joy, but I think I'm finally there.

I went on my 2nd trail ride on a different horse, my instructors' almost-4-year-old Paso Fino/Walking Horse cross, on the weekend after the 4th of July. I had my first lesson on Dreama in the round pen last week.

The ride up the back of their property on their young horse was very challenging for me. I've since compared it to "riding a billy-goat up a mountain." He's a very sweet and well-mannered young horse with a good solid mind, not spooky or scared of much and tries very hard. It was trying to direct him through narrow and in some places steep trails that was the challenge. I knocked my feet out of the stirrups on trees several times. They put me on him for this ride because 1.) They believed it would be more similar to riding my own horse now that we know she is some kind of gated breed cross and 2.) They were giving a guided trail ride for a couple they'd never met before, so they put them on the two horses I'd been taking lessons on previously. They assured me before we headed out that I would be fine on Styx, the younger horse, and that if I needed a break or if there was a part on the trail I thought I couldn't ride and needed to walk through to just let them know and we could stop. Over all I think it was a very good experience even if it was significantly more challenging than the first trail ride in the state park.

My first lesson on Dreama was a short one in the round pen, pretty unimpressive to watch really, but it felt like a revelation all the same. It's very apparent from having someone more experienced to work with her that once upon a time someone did put a lot of training and effort into her, but that perhaps they expected her to be flashy and high-strung under saddle. She is still antsy when she sees a saddle come out, and she paws the ground if you stop to stand still for too long when riding. But she IS paying attention. Ears forward to where we're going, then one ear back on me. When stopped, both ears back, listening, waiting. She's very sensitive to her signals and QUICK to put her feet where she thinks her rider wants them.

It was very different from riding the mustang and the quarter horse in the round pen, having to nudge and nudge and nudge to keep them going because they know it's just a lesson and they're bored. By comparison, Dreama requires very little leg pressure. She says, "You want to go around this pen? Great! I'll take you around this pen. Can we run while we do it? Please???" She neck reins a little bit as well and responds to the "kissing" noise as a cue to go. It was quite intimidating because I've seen what she's capable of now. She's strong and ready and smart. But our short ride also showed me that if I can relax and work on increasing my skill level, she also takes direction well and feels very nice under saddle.

I have also been extremely lucky with my first used saddle. I find that I prefer it over the saddles I've been practicing in with the other horses. When I manage to sit back, relax, and keep my heels down, it just feels _right_. It seems to fit Dreama pretty well too. I recognize that I'm still unskilled but I am so pleased with the progress we've made and glad that I found people who could help with her.

Other bits of life that have made things hard recently....

There have been a couple of places on the forum where I've shared bits of this story previously in encouragement. My partner is a recovering alcoholic who hadn't had a drink since 2015. Unfortunately the week of the 4th he relapsed and I spend a solid week mourning, almost as if someone had died. This is a problem he dealt with before we met. It's a problem we dealt with together in 2015, but I was in grad school and we weren't living together at the time. He was also unemployed at the time so with the support of his family it was relatively easy to get into a detox and rehab facility. What makes this such a serious problem is that the first time he ever went into withdrawals from alcohol (and yes that is a real thing; if you have had alcohol in your system constantly for a certain number of days you will experience true withdrawal symptoms) he experienced a seizure. So we spent 9 hours in the ER on the Sunday night that was the last day of my 4 day holiday weekend, before I had to be at a different work location an hour farther away than my normal office, kicking off an extremely busy week at work with a lot of extra traveling and my supervisor being on vacation. I didn't figure out what was really happening until that Sunday, he'd been off work for the holiday and I thought he was just sick. I spent the week physically and mentally exhausted. He has set up regular appointments with counseling and to get professional help with anxiety and depression. We have discussed what happens to our relationship and living situation if this continues, as I obviously understand this is a serious mental health issue, but understandably feel lied to and mislead. Things seemed to have leveled back out for now. I don't know if I dare let myself hope yet that things can go back to normal, but sometimes a little hope mixed with a little practicality is all that keeps you going. That and word-vomit, which I suppose is why I include this here.

During the time this was happening, I also found out my father is loosing his eyesight due to blood spots caused by a lack of control over his high blood sugar off and on for years. He may be able to get injections in his eyes that will help. Some not-so-great things have also gone on involving my aunt's horses (nothing that we've done, just on their end. Some simply unfortunate but a few things that could have been avoided.) I've always felt comfortable sharing the positive things but since it isn't my place to share the negative I will just say that their horses have been removed from my parents' property since they just closed on a property they were trying to buy and it already had fencing ready for their horses. There are are no hard feelings between family members as far as I know, it's the kind of situation where you eventually have to suck it up and say, "Not my horses, not my choices."

While Dreama is going to be a lot of horse for me for a long time to come, and it's quite physically challenging for me to ride her, when I am with her she has to have my entire focus and that chases away all of the other things in my head. Working with her is a way of physically pouring every ounce of energy in that moment into something positive.


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## CopperLove

*First Ride Outdoors on Dreama!*

I still have no new photos because I just am not at the point that I'm comfortable handling a phone/camera while riding, but this past Friday was a very special day.

I rode Dreama for the first time on part of a trail. One of my instructors rode her out and up the hill into the forest trail behind their home while I came behind on the quarter horse mare. Once we had gone a little distance we switched.

I almost declined to switch. He always gives me the option to go as far as I'm comfortable with, but obviously if the ultimate goal is to ride my own horse I can't be stuck in my comfort zone riding their horses forever. At this point it isn't really about her training, aside from keeping her ridden regularly and occasionally reminding her of her ground-manners. She's done fantastically and has proven that her desire for go-go-go doesn't mean that she isn't also a fairly sensible horse. What needs continued work is my skill and confidence level so this was a big step for me. I've seen her prove on the trail that she happy and willing to go, sure-footed and that she is listening to her rider. It's just how quick and forward she is that is still somewhat intimidating.

So I sucked it up and switched horses. It was the first time I've been on her back outside a barn or round-pen and it honestly was not as intimidating once I was on her as I expected it to be. I was aware that a "gaited" horse is supposed to be a smooth ride when handled correctly, but even just walking she is so smooth and easy to ride... VERY different from the quarter horse and mustang. Even though she moves faster and is very eager to go, even when she's fidgeting or moving it doesn't feel as jarring, it's easier to sit through. My own saddle seat is also a bit larger and deeper than the ones I've been taking lessons in; I think it fits my body a little better and as a result makes me feel more comfortable and secure.

As soon as I mounted her, she spooked a little because the blue-heeler dog with us decided he was going to nip her heels. I'm not sure what happened or why he decided to to this... he always travels the trails with us and has never been a problem before. I'm not sure if he lost his patience because we weren't moving anymore and the instinct to herd kicked in. It wasn't the ideal situation but also wasn't as frightening to deal with as I had imagined it would be, partly because she's used to dogs and once she realized what was happening she wasn't concerned about it anymore. I turned her around, spoke to her, stayed calm myself and she calmed.

The remainder of the ride went very well. It was the confidence boost with her that I needed.

We paused at a small ditch, a place where water runs down the hillside and had worn a little gap in the ground. My instructor was explaining that I could take her over the tiny gap and she would probably have to stretch to get over it a bit but that it wouldn't be that hard, or that I could guide her to the left and around where we were off the trail a bit but there wasn't a ditch. He even offered to dismount and lead me over if I wanted to try it but felt uncertain since I'd never passed this kind of obstacle before. This is a very small, common obstacle to go over on a trail and something that I will have to learn and get used to. I told him it was fine, that I would just go around this time. As I steered her left to cross where there wasn't a gap though, she ended up taking a jump for it anyway. In re-counting our first venture together to a friend later that evening they asked me if it was fun or if it was scary... and I told them honestly, it was over and done so fast that I didn't really have time to worry about it. I laughed when we landed, from the startle and relief. My instructor caught up with us, reassuring me, telling me I did great, etc. I told him I was well aware that I did not do "great", but that I didn't fall off and so that was all I could have asked for :rofl: She wasn't doing something wild or crazy, she was doing what she thought I was asking of her. I believe she was uncertain of the footing - we had just been standing looking at a ditch and even though I guided her away from that area, I think the leaf-litter off the trail hid her view of the ground and she decided going over was better than stepping into the unknown. It ended up being a much larger jump than the small stretch over the ditch would have been and I'm grateful it turned out alright.

I still need much work to match her, but there is just something about being on her back that I found to be comforting. It was the boost I needed, a glimpse into what the future could be, proof that I am making progress and we can do this.


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## GrittyGrulla

It sounds like you and Dreama will make a great pair. You both can grow and evolve together.


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## CopperLove

GrittyGrulla said:


> It sounds like you and Dreama will make a great pair. You both can grow and evolve together.


I'm very much hoping so. My favorite analogy of the situation is that I really needed a mini-van but what I got was a sports car :lol: She's had a lot of experience somewhere it seems like, and it's been a dramatic change having someone who knows what they're doing working with her and showing me what to do. After she figured out that saddles coming out means we get to go somewhere and do something different, she seems pretty eager to do it. I've also been surprised how good she is with their children. She's very inquisitive with them and not at all bothered by them playing in the barn if she's in her stall, it almost seems like she enjoys watching them.


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## SueC

Dear @CopperLove, I have just caught up with your updates and am sorry to hear you're going through a super-stressful time with your partner's relapse. I wish I could drop off some nice stir-fry to you and a naughty little chocolate nut horn (all wholemeal), and stop in for coffee and a chat. Alas, it's still great that technology has made it possible for people from across the globe to be reading each other's journals and be sort of like conference call pen pals! I hope your horse will provide some much-needed taking-your-mind-off-the-hook, and some uncomplicated cooperation and affection. Big hugs from me from the Southern Hemisphere. :hug: Take good care, and be really good to yourself.


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## whisperbaby22

After reading some of the horrific episodes with so called "trainers" in other areas of this forum, I hope that everybody who has had a bad experience with one reads your latest post. This is a trainer that wants you to succeed with your horse, and I am glad you found this trainer. This is a person who really cares about horsemanship.


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## CopperLove

@SueC Thank you :hug:. It is really good to be able to connect with people of varying experiences and places :smile:

It’s a very strange feeling situation… I feel mostly normal again, our life feels “normal” again… things seem to have been going well but clearly everything isn’t always as OK as it seems on the outside. That has been one of the most difficult things to accept, that there has been a lack of communication going on that I was never aware of and how blind-sided I was by everything. In perfectly awful timing his workplace also changed his hours with very little notice shortly after all this happened, so now we don’t see each other at all during waking hours Tuesday-Friday. He is attending counseling appointments but getting set up with the doctor is an agonizingly slow process it seems.

Instead of focusing on what I can’t control I keep my goals in front of me. I started dabbling in my craft business again, and started a carpentry/intro to construction class this week using free credit-hours I get from work just because I want to, and because I want to know how to make repairs on my own property in the future. Come to find out, one of the older men who helps with the intro class owns THIRTEEN Tennessee Walking Horses and his granddaughter actively shows. He showed me photos of their horses, said I should come visit the barn, etc. While something like that isn’t really where I’m headed with horses, it was still nice to meet someone else who works with horses in the area.
@whisperbaby22
It has been a very positive experience. They know my goal is to be able to eventually trail ride alone with my own horse which has worked out well because their focus is mostly about trail riding as well. It’s nothing fancy, It’s a family endeavor, a husband and wife pair who are still trying to build on their business and that can be difficult in this area. But I think they’ve been perfect for me and for Dreama. They have a way of pushing me just enough out of my comfort zone to keep improving but not so much that I stop enjoying it or feel like I’ve failed. They have two young children and their way of teaching and speaking reflects how they teach their children… direct but positive and calm. I was very lucky to find people whose style of teaching suited my needs so well right off the bat. I see some people talk about their stressful experiences with their instruction, and I know that showing, jumping, dressage, etc. takes a different kind and level of training, but I think it would do a lot of learners good to have the kind of instructors they could relax with every now and then too.


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## knightrider

If you are not going to Al Anon meetings, I really do encourage you to try them. I have found them to be tremendously helpful and uplifting. My husband and I were doing all the wrong things dealing with the alcoholic in our family, and now that I have learned so much through Al Anon, I am so much happier.


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## CopperLove

@knightrider We used to go to AA meetings together around the 2015 time-span when he still lived in our home town. I recently found where local AA meetings are here, but they are unfortunately on Thursdays around a time of evening that he's at work... the 5pm-3am shift schedule he's on really gets in the way of everything.

I agree that AA meetings are a key part of recovery; even if you don't necessarily mesh with the people at your local group, I have been told that it's the accountability that's important. Ironically enough, one of the women I do some digital assistance side-work for would have likely been his doctor if she weren't in the process of changing jobs. She graciously told me that if we had any problems navigating the system at the hospital with counseling that we could ask her questions at any time. She also highly suggested that if he's serious about getting help that he should get in touch with a sponsor, which is something he's never done before. She also told me that AA holds online meetings if you absolutely can't make it to a local group, although I'm not sure if that can be the equivalent of in-person meetings.


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## CopperLove

*First Full Trail with Dreama*

Last Saturday we rode our first full trail together, from start to finish without me having to switch off horses. It was about 7 miles long, although it felt a lot longer because the trail wasn’t in as good condition as my instructors expected it to be.

KL (the wife) is about a month away from having her baby so no trails for her. She trailered ML (the husband), their two boys, myself and the horses to the trail head and from there we were able to ride all the way back to their ranch. It was supposed to be about a 3 hour ride, but several large trees had fallen across the trail and there was a lot of growth since the last time they had ridden the trail. Some we could duck under or go around. There were a few places though that required dismounting and either clearing or hunting a better way around off-trail. We took a break a little over half-way home. I’m not sure how long we were actually out, but I got to the ranch at 2, we loaded horses and tack, and by the time we got back, brushed the horses down and put everything away I wasn’t headed home until 9 p.m.

The only “scary” thing that happened was right at the beginning before we’d even really started. KL offered to hold Dreama’s lead while I got on because we’re still working on getting her not to move as much and it usually works out fine to have someone hold her. I’d been seated for a moment when she suddenly tried to go forward, thankfully wasn’t willing to go over KL in front of her, threw her head back and decided the answer if she couldn’t go forward was BACK.

It was very unusual and we were all startled… while she can be antsy she’s never done something like that. For all her fire and go-go-go mentality, she’s proven so far to be pretty steady under saddle. Only after she calmed did we realize a man had just walked up through the brush behind us from the creek. There was no boat in the water, no tent that we could see… we are a “certified trail town” so there are frequently long-distance hikers/backpackers during certain times of the year, but he carried no backpack or any other equipment (water bottle, etc.) to indicate that he’d been hiking. He didn’t bother us but it was a very unusual place for a lone man on foot. The trail is obviously open to the public for foot traffic but it’s a very “in the middle of no-where” kind of place.

That was the only spook we had the entire trip. We rode at the back, the middle and front of the group. She does get anxious when things come to a stand-still for any length of time, which happened often on this trip as ML either cleared a path or went to hunt a way around. Instead of making her stand and making both of us more anxious, he suggested I turn and walk her up and down the path we’d just come up while he worked on the path ahead. This seemed to work out well for her, doing something to occupy her feet and her mind.

Aside from not wanting to stand still, there was nothing she refused… over logs, water crossing, being led through tight places where we’d had to cut tree branches off the path to get through. At one of the water crossings we were in front, and as we started across I let myself get swarped in the face by a tree branch… I let go of the reins with one hand to fight away the attacking tree. With guidance gone and the human struggling, she realized that no other horses were in the water (she’d outpaced them by a bit but we weren’t too far ahead) and decided it was time to go back to our companions. Can’t say that I blame her really. I got her turned back around and we still crossed the water at the front of the group, this time avoiding the offending branch.

Toward the end we hit some really good, clear flat trail. She even gaited for me a little bit. THAT was a strange feeling, a gear I’d never been in before. The last part of our ride home was all on a loose rein.

Unrelated to Dreama, I’m in the process of finishing a set of these for KL before the baby comes. They are crochet stuffed horses, one for the new baby and two for her big brothers. They’re a surprise and I can’t wait to finish them and gift them over.


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## kewpalace

CopperLove said:


> Unrelated to Dreama, I’m in the process of finishing a set of these for KL before the baby comes. They are crochet stuffed horses, one for the new baby and two for her big brothers. They’re a surprise and I can’t wait to finish them and gift them over.


This is too adorable! What a special surprise!


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## CopperLove

@kewpalace Thank you  If you know anyone who crochets, I highly recommend the pattern book "Animal Friends of Pica Pau" She makes some of the best stuffed animal patterns (amigurumi) I've seen. I altered her pattern for a unicorn to make these.


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## CopperLove

I intended before Labor Day to spend some time practicing mounting and dismounting, since standing still to let me back on after multiple trail dismounts was a problem on Saturday. But when I went to the ranch and brought her into the barn, she was so relaxed and sweet I decided to just groom her and hang out instead. I think her willingness to stand in the barn with me was due in large part to the virtual absence of flies there vs. the field but it was still nice.

She stood so still, in fact, that I managed to snap a couple of new photos even though the light was fading. She has lost some fat and gained some muscle since the last photos. We've found that, being back in work, she can be a difficult horse to keep weight on. She also tends to loose a little weight when she goes into heat, she stresses herself out. She's due for a hoof-trim this week and is still a bit of a booger over holding her feet up, but is doing much better than before.

I present, peaceful horse :lol:


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## SueC

Congratulations on your first proper and prolonged trail ride on your own horse! :clap: It sounded really positive. What a long way to come from being a beginner, and only six months ago! 

I love that crocheted horse toy - no wonder you can't wait to present it. It tends to kill me to hold on to gifts because of the anticipation etc.

Dreama is looking lovely - and she'll put on more muscle as you work more together. It's good to see a horse that's not carrying excess fat, but also isn't skinny!


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## CopperLove

@SueC Thank you :smile: I went yesterday evening to practice her walking gait in the round pen and my instructors commented that I was sitting much better on her than I ever had on their quarter horse and that for what I wanted to do, I had come a very long way for someone who usually only gets to ride once a week, if that sometimes. It has helped tremendously to see others ride her, and then ride her myself and see that energy and power does not equate to the "crazy" horse that some tend to think. ML said we should soon take a trip to a local trail near a lake they haven't visited yet, and KL said "Not until I have this baby, I want to be able to ride it too." I would compare the face she gave him when he tried to joke that was too long to what people call the "mare face" in horses :rofl:

There is an interesting dilemma I face with every crochet toy I make... I want to finish it and present it to the intended recipient or to the world if it's to sell... but I loathe the final process of sewing them together :lol: Seeing the shapes and pieces form is a lot of fun. Sewing is not my favorite. Then they come together and I'm happy. So there's always a delay between finishing all the parts and the actual final product, especially when it's a set of things. But I've got a deadline to meet now since I'd like to have them all 3 finished BEFORE the baby comes and that's the end of this month.

ML jokes that he doesn't understand where all that food goes. She gets quite a bit more feed than when she was with my parents and not being ridden much. Grain twice daily and hay 2-3 times a day depending (if someone is working in the barn and she can't get in she will pace and worry so they will give her extra to occupy herself with.) Free choice of pasture between morning and evening feed. There is also a round bale hay feeder in the pasture for the horses and their couple of small cows to share. The occasional carrots and fruit I bring. I know that I feel extremely empty and hungry when I finish a ride, and she's the one carrying ME so I can relate to her new appetite.


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## carshon

@CopperLove - Dreama seems to be a really nice mare and you are working so hard to create a partnership. She reminds me of my mare Tillie Mae- who in her past life that I know nothing of (she wad dumped at a sale barn in Kalona IA and picked up by a couple in their 70's that never rode her so they left her in a pasture for 2-3 years ((neither could remember how long)) When I got Tillie she would not stand to mount - once she felt a foot hit the stirrup she was in full gait to go down the trail. On some excellent advice by someone on this forum I started keeping treats in my pocket and once I mounted (started with someone holding her) and got my seat secure I would lean down and give her a treat. Eventually no one had to hold her and she stood still until I was seated and then turned her head for her reward . I don't reward as much now but she still stands to be mounted. She also does not like to stand still on the trail so I still keep treats in my pocket and reward her if she has to stand still.

Some walking horse riders expect their horses to high energy gait at all times so their horses anticipate. I believe Tillie was one of those - She was foaled in Lowndes MO and how she ended up in a sale barn in IA and now in NW IL is a story only she knows. We celebrated our 3 yr anniversary last month and she has come so far since I got her. Keep up the good work with Dreama - you will never regret it.


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## CopperLove

@carshon Your Tillie's story definitely reminds me of Dreama. 😄 I'll always wonder how she ended up at my home-town's dog pound (and apparently wasn't in terribly skinny shape when her previous owner adopted her from there, so if they had to remove her from a property, it wasn't due to outright neglect.)

I jumped into something that I know is rarely ever a good idea for a beginner - owning a horse that we knew nothing about. But with a lot of help and a little luck things have turned out ok so far. I know I'm not "her person" yet; my instructors are with her more than me by far, but I am trying to be good to her and learn to handle her in a way that's good for both of us. It didn't occur to me until earlier today when SueC mentioned it that it really has only been about 6 months since I started actively seeking help and taking lessons. We're only going on our fourth month of boarding with my instructors. I often feel like a slow learner but I can't say I'm unhappy with where I'm at and I know Dreama enjoys being somewhere she can be turned out with other horses.

I have seen someone talk about the treat thing too! I've seriously thought of trying it; my instructors don't recommend training with treats but everyone seems to have their own thing, and different things work for different horses. She is very food driven but can also get a little pushy about food, but I don't think it could hurt to try.


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## MeditativeRider

Oh your little crochet horse is the cutest, and your real life horse is beautiful! So shiny and regal. She holds her head like a queen.

Sounds like you are going amazingly well in your riding. I would love to trail ride more, but I don't own a horse and only have access to good instruction at a place that only does lessons in an arena. So its once a week lessons in the arena for me, and the odd commercial trek/trail ride a few times a year. 

I hope your partner is getting better. Mental health and addictions are so difficult.


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## CopperLove

@MeditativeRider Thank you  I finally finished the set of crochet horses this weekend and gifted them off.

My instruction has been a bit unorthodox at times; they don't have an arena yet but are making plans to build one, so I either practice in a round pen or practice on the trail. Sometimes I wish I did have an arena to practice in, but I'm so grateful I've been able to start hitting some trails, I wouldn't trade it for anything. I also can't imagine a boarding situation that would be better for Dreama and I, having a family that includes us in outings like they do.

Maybe one day something will show up in your area that will allow you to trail ride more often :frown_color: I think from seeing a few of your posts before and talking about the meditative experience that riding is for you, you'd really enjoy it. Depending on how well maintained a trail is, you can get into some hairy problem-solving situations, but I think it really can help improve balance and confidence - if you're with the right group of people to help guide you until you're comfortable. It's always worth Googling "guided trail rides" every so often just to see what you might come up with that's new in your area. I'd never have known my instructors' ranch existed if not for a random Google search one day :lol:

My partner did find an in-person AA meeting to start attending on Monday evenings when he's off work. He is definitely better off than he was the week of the 4th but I can't say whether I know if he's any better overall than he has been in the past 3 years or so. He doesn't seem to think the new anti-depressant will help but I'm cautiously hopeful about it (not that it will be a magic fix-all, but that it could aid in improving his mental health even if only a little.)


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## SueC

Those crocheted horses are gorgeous!  I love to see handcrafted things, as opposed to mass produced. When I was little, a classmate's grandmother gave me a toy elephant she'd sewn herself out of fabric, and embellished. She made quite a few of them for my classmate, who was completely in love with elephants (we were 8, he was my first childhood boy crush), and she made one for me as well. I still have it, but it's in storage just now, or I'd take a photo! Grey-and-white stripey material for the body, red corduroy for inside the ears and (inside) trunk end, if I remember correctly... 

Speaking of treat training, I think you might enjoy this blog on trick-training a mustang - extraordinary results. You kind of have to mine the archives:

https://augustusthemustang.wordpress.com/


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## CopperLove

*Visit with Mom and her Mini; Prepping for Vendor Sales*

Over the weekend I visited my Mom belatedly for her birthday, and visited with her mini as well. He is adorable but... so... fat. He only gets the grass in his lot, and the occasional cup of feed as incentive to come into the barn when Mom needs to do something with him or put him in during bad weather but doesn't seem to drop much weight despite cutting back feed.

If he were mine I believe I'd put a grazing muzzle on him - don't they make a device like that so that a horse can still be outside the majority of the day and graze in small bits, but it limits how much grass they can eat at once? He has lost a little bit of weight since Dad purchased him for mom, now that he's able to stay out most of the day and walk around, but he's still pretty obese for a horse his size.

He's never been physically abused that we know of but his story is rather sad. My aunt originally purchased him from someone who said he was "so mean they couldn't do anything with him...." He was kept in a stall with no windows and no turn-out. My aunt said when she went to get him, he just stood in the corner farthest away from her, but let her come up and pet him and put a lead-rope on him. He isn't gelded, so he does have the attitude of a stud but we've never seen him do anything we would consider mean. You can tell he is a little mis-trusting, but he's so curious and friendly in general I think it's a matter of not being worked with often enough. He is very easy to lead.

For a while my aunt had another mini-horse that he was kept with. But eventually she sold her and the people who bought her didn't want Hercules (the mini mare was broke to ride/lead with a child on her back, Hercules is not child-safe.) She attempted to sell him as well and got an offer, but found out the potential buyer was someone who was reputed not to be very kind to their animals and declined the offer. Mom had grown attached to him and with the moving of the other horses off the property imminent, Dad offered to buy him and my aunt accepted.

He gets to be outside all the time now, as he couldn't be out at the same time with the other horses since he's not gelded. But he has no other equine companions and I do think he's lonely. I think Mom would like to find him a companion but he would have to be gelded first, unless he would accept a gelding as a companion. Overall his situation is much improved from the dark stall he came from, but things could still be better. He is a very lovely color, I suspect whoever originally owned him kept him intact with the intention of breeding him. The fact that he's already passed hands so many times shows that there isn't much call for that in this area anymore, and he would likely have been a lot better off if someone had seen fit to geld him earlier on. It's still not out of the question though.

I wish that we lived a bit closer and I could spend more time with him... he is so curious and friendly, I think with a lot of trust work he could be a prime candidate for trick training.




























___

Not too long ago I posted a question on the forum directed to property/farm owners and others seeking to purchase property, about first-time property buying for someone seeking a "non-traditional" first time home... aka I have the itch to buy my own place but there is no point in looking at smaller plots of land because I already know I want something with more acreage than the typical first-time home buyer, and if there were a barn already on the property that I could use/repair that would be ideal.

I got some good advice and it helped me wrap my head financially around what I am looking at. I've been tracking spending carefully for a while now, so I know exactly what I spend on every aspect of life, where I've already cut back, where I could cut back more and where I can't. The main thing I could obviously be saving a lot money on is if I didn't own pets/Dreama... but Dreama's not going anywhere and neither are my cats. So, once you've looked at all the things you could save money on and whittled things down and devised a savings plan, the only thing left to do if you want to save more money... is to make more money.

Specifically, how do I make more money without making myself utterly miserable in the process.

During the year before I finally got the full-time job I have now, I did tons of side-work including freelance graphic design, typist/digital assistant work and handcrafted vendor sales. I laid down most of the extra work besides the typist stuff because I needed a break. Now I think I'm ready to pick things back up and try to incorporate my side-business as a way to save more money for the future goal of buying property and stretch my creative muscles.

I have sold some crochet and knit stuff but the less time-consuming and higher profit area I've dabbled in is jewelry making. Even though jewelry is a very saturated market in the hand-made world, I have always sold more jewelry than any other thing I've offered. The attached are just a couple of pendants I've made over the weekend after brushing back up on my wire-wrapping. I have a TON of stones, fossils, vintage beads, jewelry findings, etc. that I've hoarded over years of casual interest... my current goal is to use the stash that I have before investing in more supplies. Honestly, why do I have so many things that I never created something with? Procrastination? Fear of not being good enough? :shrug: I would only consider myself an advanced beginner, but I'm pretty thrilled with these new pieces and I'm hoping they go over well locally.

There are at least three in-person sales I plan to attend before the end of the year - sales leading up to Christmas are almost always the best. After than I need to get my Etsy back up and running... everyone always tells you if you make things by hand you should sell on Etsy but I'm here to tell you that isn't always a great plan. It's really kind of a pain. I haven't really ever seriously tackled keeping it up-to-date, so I'll have to put some more work into it before I decide whether or not it's worth keeping up with. Wish me luck. :-?


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## SueC

Those are really beautiful, @CopperLove.

For me, the main way to save money was to have the horses at my own place, on pasture, so I didn't even have much feed expenditure anymore, and I do all their own trims. And, we could only afford to live on this farm because we got hands-on building the house.

...have you looked into the Tiny House idea? That's something we'd be looking at, if we were starting out. A lot of those can also be relocated easily. They're not all like campervans, some are really excellent!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiny_house_movement

https://www.google.com/search?q=tin...99bkAhV47HMBHfHlABEQ_AUIESgB&biw=1280&bih=876

Just breaks you out of the rent / mortgage trap...


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## SueC

Oh and... yes, a grazing muzzle is a great idea for an overweight pony! We adopted two overweight donkeys five years ago, and grazing muzzles are an integral part of their management:



They don't go out on the big pasture without them during spring flush, for sure.

Also, I have three horses here who were gelded at maturity (all over age 10, post-racing) so the poor things could finally socialise nomally. There really is no good reason to keep non-breeding, post-racing horses as stallions. These guys love being in a herd now - something they never had before:


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## CopperLove

@SueC Having my own horse/eventual horses at home is a big part of why I'm not even considering a property that wouldn't have enough land to do so.

About a year ago I actually OBSESSED over the tiny house idea, even down to camper living. I still would not be opposed to living out of a camper if I thought I had somewhere to park it locally that would actually make it an economical choice (so as to not pay rent and actually be saving money in doing so.) As it turns out, my current instructors actually did live out of a camper for a while, saving money and paying down debt (although I don't think that was the only reason.) I adored the Tiny House movement so much that it inspired me to declutter my living space and get rid of a ton of stuff that I find I'm happier without. I watched video after video about tiny builds.

I don't know that I will ever be good enough to build my own house but my hope with the construction/carpentry classes I'm taking through my work is that I might at least be good enough to provide my own repairs.

I think I will eventually whittle mom down into having Hercules gelded. She knows that it's ok to do it even though he's a bit older and I think she knows it would be best for him but it just isn't at the forefront right now. Honestly, there's no telling how many years it will actually be, but eventually his care will fall to me and if it hasn't been done by then I certainly would have him gelded. I'll have to show her your donkeys in their little grazing muzzles! I've told her about them before but I don't think she really understood what I meant as I don't think she's ever seen one before.


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## whisperbaby22

If you already have not, I would start to interview realtors. You can stop by their office, briefly explain what you will be looking for, and this way you will have someone on your team ready to go when you get serious. Here in CA, when I was looking I had a realtor put me on the MLS list, that way I got notices whenever something went on the market. 

I could filter it down, you may want to look, for example, for 5 acres in such and such county.l


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## CopperLove

@whisperbaby22 That's a good idea. I need to get my documentation finished, but I will be working with a local organization soon that helps people in our area learn about and plan for the home-buying/home-ownership process (they also build homes but I don't think the homes they typically help build are farm-type places.) They don't provide realtor services themselves, but maybe they can put me in contact with a realtor who has experience with the kind of property I'd be looking for. While the prices of property are going up everywhere, I will say that I've heard it's easier to find a farm-type property here as opposed to CA, as a lot of people simply have moved away from wanting that kind of thing here and there are often older properties with older houses that the family simply doesn't want to or isn't able to keep up with anymore. I am trying to get myself lined out to be ready to really start looking after the next year or so, which sometimes seems attainable and sometimes seems like a really big scary goal... I am trying to learn as much as possible in my carpentry/construction class so that I will hopefully be able to do some of my own work on things if I come across a property I love but that has a house or barn that needs some work.


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## SueC

@CopperLove, when we owner-built, we sub-contracted out the slab, framing carpentry and roofing, and a few other things, but it left us with plenty to do and save money on, and it was interesting. I don't see why you wouldn't be capable of the things I did on the build - well, making straw walls, plastering straw walls, cladding frame walls, tiling, making architraves, skirting boards, cornices, some furniture from rough-cut face-cuts, putting in insulation, painting, paving, making built-in shelving and book-cases etc. I hadn't done a construction course and I'd not been allowed to handle power tools in my family of origin because female. The first time I picked up a power drill was when we built our farm shed from kit, before the house. I got good at it quickly (there's really good DIY books and videos, plus friends with specialised skills taught us), and looking at your craft work, I think you've got a knack for working with your hands. Don't underestimate yourself! 

We lived in a caravan for four months while getting part of the house habitable:


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## CopperLove

@SueC Ohh Ok, so the really structural foundational things you found companies to pay to do, but did all the finish work yourselves? I don't know anything about putting up walls yet but am quite sure I could learn as long as someone else had actually dealt with the frame of the house. I'm sure I could learn how to put insulation in as well, I've no problem painting for myself and I'm not picky about furniture at all. All of our current furniture is second hand, a lot of which I intend to keep and some of which is older and solid wood that I could sand and re-polish if I really wanted to some day. I could also see myself with a little additional practice building some simple furniture. I know the basics of laying flooring now as well, although we'd have to invest in some tools to accomplish some of these things. I know I'd have to have professionals to do the plumbing and electric as well. I would bet that my construction instructor would probably know people locally who specialize in that kind of thing.

I never really thought of it that way, that you could have someone else build part of your house but do part of the work yourself - I've always thought of it as an either/or kind of thing where people paid someone else to do the whole thing or did it themselves. (I also live in the land of pre-fab homes and trailers. I grew up in a trailer and my parents replaced their old trailer after mom retired with a new trailer in the same place as opposed to moving or ever investing in a "real house", so I guess it's not surprising that I've never really thought about these possibilities until now.) I also wonder if one could go about getting a loan for this kind of process? That's another question for the local organization I intend to work with/learn from soon.

Edit: The additional thing that would be a massive hindrance is that I am very afraid of heights and ladders :hide:


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## SueC

I was afraid of heights too when I started!  It wore off. A good scaffold with safety rails works wonders.

A lot of owner builders simply hire contractors for everything. A few build everything themselves. Many, like us, sit in the middle - so the structural stuff is all stress-free, and you still get to save a lot of money and have a lot of pride in your own workmanship.

Our house build in photos here, so you can see what it involved: https://www.flickr.com/photos/redmoonsanctuary/albums/72157628414190373

Owner-builder loans can be dicey - we had a lot of paperwork to do for ours once we finally found a bank that would consider it. (A small not-for-profit community bank.) We only needed a building loan, and had the land outright and then some. A lot of owner-builders get caught in credit card loops - don't go there, it frequently leads to massive debt and bankruptcy. We never, _ever_ bought building materials or paid contractors on the credit card - it was all done from the incremental bank loan - you'd get another bit after you completed a stage. If something was over, we waited until we'd raised the money with our paid work. Anyway, shop for owner-builder loans well before you begin, or just build something small stage-by-stage as you can afford it - that's the other way a lot of people do it, and this process might take 5-10 years unless you're building a Tiny House. A lot of owner builders build using materials from their own land, too - like stone for walls, or soil for rammed earth.


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## CopperLove

@SueC I'm not completely sure, but I think I either saw something on their social media or heard someone talking about the group I'm wanting to work with doing owner-builder stuff... but it may just have been providing guidance/supervision. They are a local non-profit, but I'm not 100% sure what all the services they provide/assist with are; I really need to get my documentation in to them. I've been so busy prepping for the upcoming sale, practicing with Dreama, and family stuff that I started my account with them but haven't had an official meeting to turn in the basic documents and consent they need to work with me. That needs to be my goal for next week... take lunch and schedule an appointment to get all my info turned in to them. I know a lot of the questions I have they could probably answer. They did tell me up-front that if I was looking for any significant amount of acreage that I would likely not qualify for some of the more traditional loan programs available, but that didn't mean they couldn't necessarily work with me, and they could still provide some education for me and possibly help plan for the process in the future.

I don't think we would really be suited to a true Tiny House, but I think our ideal home is smaller than average. To my mind, smaller means easier to clean, easier to heat and to cool, easier for me to maintain over time. And since the point of having the property would really be to build a life where we could enjoy and care for the property itself I don't see the point for us in a "big" house (though I know the idea of a big house is relative to what one considers "big" to be.)

It's going to be quite some time before we can really do anything anyway. My goal is to start planning now but get really serious about it in a year or so, whether that be starting to look to buy or starting a plan to build. But that's a really big goal to reach for since we are just in the stages of saving money for home-ownership right now. But, I figure it's fine to reach for a big goal, it can never hurt to research, learn and save money :lol:

I scrolled through the flickr documentation of your home building, I know I've seen some photos of it before but I never truly realized the walls are straw, I've never seen something like that. Forgive my ignorance, is the straw for insulation purposes? Then the finished walls are also plaster over the structure built by the straw bales, no additional board or wall put up? Are the "truth windows" a traditional concept? A personal creative choice? Or do they serve a maintenance/practical purpose as well?


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## SueC

Truth windows are just for fun. Compressed straw walls are structural, _and_ they're R-10 (Australian scale) insulation, and you have to plaster them for weather-proofing and to cut the fire hazard they would otherwise pose in a building. Plastered, straw walls then become one of the safest type of wall in wildfire zones, which is what we live in - far safer than frame walls with cladding. The plaster also adds useful thermal mass inside a house. 

And you're right, research is never too early or wasted. I wish you all the very best for your plans.

By the way, I wrote an "official" Downshifting article on money saving and building recently and there's a copy here: https://www.horseforum.com/member-j...ys-other-people-479466/page54/#post1970756145


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## CopperLove

*Much Progress and First Fall*

On Wednesday of last week we had an excellent but challenging ride. KL's oldest son had come in for a visit, and I think that's why ML suggested a late evening trail ride when I arrived at the ranch after work. We're in the process of practicing bits of the trail that I've been nervous about... I truly have ridden much rougher parts of the trails on their property by now but for some reason can't shake the nervous feeling going over ditches and such. My mind still makes a big deal over a little hop over a dip in the ground as if it's going to be a big show-jump, when in reality I know it's not and I know that Dreama has carried me over worse.

The trail we were going to take going up into the woods was one I hadn't been on before, and it requires crossing a ditch at the bottom of the pasture before heading up. ML rode over first but I hesitated. When I hesitated Dreama turned sideways, and rather than turn her back across the ditch at a bad angle I decided I was going to turn her back in a circle, come back to where we started and try again. Except when I turned her we were pointed up-hill, and she got her nose pointed up one of those billy-goat worthy trails the horses run up the hill into the woods on. It was like watching a light-bulb come on behind her ears. She said WE GO... and we went. :runninghorse2: I realized after he first lunge uphill that the best course of action was probably to keep moving forward. I still had control of steering left and right, it was just not an ideal place to try to turn her back down-hill. Apparently I couldn't hear her, but KL was at the bottom of the hill yelling at me to keep going. I could hear ML telling me it was ok, keep her moving forward, he'd follow me up. We popped over the top of that hill and she stopped when asked. She very much wanted to go though. We've gone from having a horse that was really worried about where her horse companions were to one that's eager to be in front. I think if I had let her she would have happily left them behind.

We crossed all the places on the trail I needed to practice on. The ditch I had initially been so worried about, Dreama didn't even hop over. She put her nose down and walked her way down into it and popped up the other side like it was nothing. I think we did well together that day despite the initial oops of taking the wrong trail up. I think a big part of that was by my error; Dreama so far has gone anywhere she's been asked, but if you aren't ready to make your decision about where you want to go she has no qualms about showing you what she thinks is a good way.

KL also made this for me this week, I thought it was such a precious gift. It's a bracelet made from Dreama's hair. The white sparkly bead in the middle is a magnetic clasp, the other beads are shoeing nails bent in place. It's currently living on my keep-sake shelf with other pet memorial items.












Sunday I was supposed to come back for a longer ride. It had been raining off and on but not too hard and stopped about the time I arrived. ML had gone out riding alone before I got there which was part of the root of our problems on this day.

Dreama was in heat so she was a little more antsy than usual but not too bad. They don't have any stallions at the ranch so there's no one for her to really act a fool for. She stood nicely to mount; we've been working on me being able to mount by myself without her walking away and that has gone so well that I didn't need any help at all. When we headed out she REALLLLY wanted to be in front. I was not feeling a front-rider kind of day. It had been a long busy week and honestly, I was kind of tired and I knew we would be taking obstacles on the trail that I wanted ML in front for. Dreama was not pleased about this "there's another mare in front of me" business at all.

We turned at the point on the trail where there is an additional electric fence gate that can be opened or closed depending on what way they want their horses to go when they're turned out and ML got off his horse to open the fence. Dreama started trying to push past his horse and when I tried to stop her she danced sideways and backed up.

I saw the look on ML's face right before it happened. He started to say "She's about the get into the..."

POP

Fence.

ML never turns the fenceline off when he goes riding alone. We'd saddled up new horses when he got back and headed out and forgotten to turn the fence off. I've never seen Dreama touch an electric line whether on or off.

But there we were, for the split second it took, with her bum laid across all 3 strands.

When she spun around I stayed on but just barely, I was sliding to the left off the saddle with the trunk of a tree coming at my face and I was definitely not thinking, just reacting. I reached out with my left hand and caught the tree, which jerked me out of the saddle and around so hard that when I landed and rolled I was facing the opposite direction my horse was running. In hindsight, I know this could have jerked my back apart but it also might have saved me from smashing my face. I tried to get up, couldn't immediately, and remember turning just enough to glimpse Dreama running away. I laid back down and watched ML's horse running away too. I don't know if he had let her go to come to me when I fell or if she had spooked and pulled away from him when Dreama ran.

ML was asking me if I was ok and I kept saying I was ok but that I just needed a minute. He went back to close the fence and give me a moment to breath. At that point, I had started to consciously take stock of how my arm and back felt and decided yes they hurt, but that nothing was broken. I stood up, kept saying I was ok, ML was telling me I was bleeding. I looked at my arm then and discovered that I was in fact, not bleeding, but that the scratches from the tree were just very red. I confirmed again that I was OK and we started back down. About halfway down we could hear KL yelling for us. After seeing two riderless horses barrel back down the hill into the yard, she had snatched the mare ML had been on and was walking her back up in case anyone needed to be carried down.

They tied Dreama for me. ML said that the best thing to do if I was ok was to get back on and ride it out, but that it depended on how my back felt. I really think if I hadn't been concerned about my back I would have gotten back on. But I've heard many stories of people in accidents who don't realize until days later that they've cracked or pulled something. So they helped me get Dreama's tack off but I insisted on brushing her down myself. She was clearly startled, didn't want me to touch her head. I brushed and rubbed, wiped spider-webs out of her ears, touched and checked her legs.

Afterward, while I was cleaning my arm and resting, she kept looking over at me, then looking away, licking/chewing, head down. She was the calmest and most submissive she had been for the entire evening. She knew something bad had happened. I'm not really sure what she thought though; whether the zap from the fence was some kind of immediate retribution from me for not cooperating on the trail, or if she was worried we were going to yell or hit her for dumping her rider. To my mind there was no point being mad at her at that point. Yes she was being sassy on the trail but if by human error the fence hadn't been forgotten I don't think anything close to that would have happened. I hope that unsaddling her, brushing her down and comforting her was the right choice at that point. I don't think I personally could have done anything else that evening.

As it is, I'm waiting for a day I can go back out to get back on... I'm currently sick with a low-grade fever. I think that I was getting sick on Saturday but just didn't want to admit it and thought I was feeling icky from starting my menstrual cycle (Bonus points, Dreama is often in heat when I'm on my period, so we are simultaneously at our worst.) After a couple of nights of chills and sweats, I decided to go to the walk-in clinic. They swabbed me for flu, no flu. No other symptoms really aside from an elevated temperature, uncomfortable nights and a loss of appetite. Because I had just taken a fall and had the bruises to show for it they also looked at my arm and questioned me as to whether I had lost consciousness during the incident, which I honestly answered I hadn't. I'd had my helmet on but I don't think I hit my head at all the way I came down. Their conclusion was that my immune system was fighting off a virus, to rest, drink plenty of fluids and take some vitamin C.

I don't think this will hinder me from getting back on, hopefully. I know what caused our wreck and that it absolutely wouldn't have happened if we hadn't forgotten the fence. It's not as good as falling and getting right back on, but I still think we'll recover. :falloff:


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## carshon

I am sorry you fell off. And how scary for Dreama. Thankfully your helmet was in place and no head injuries. Chalk this up to another learning experience. And as you have pointed out in your posts before - she know when you are feeling timid or off and it translates to her. This is the one part of riding I have always had the hardest time with - learning to leave my emotions out of it - and I don't me anger at the horse I mean any emotion. Whether I am frustrated - sad - happy whatever.

I want to commend you on always trying to see her point of view. You two are going to make a fantastic team on those trails!


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## CopperLove

@carshon Overall I know I picked a bad day for both of us, I should have been paying better attention to my own body trying to tell me I didn't feel the best to begin with. I think that's why I'm not terribly shaken up about it even though I know it could have turned out badly - because I know what caused it and obviously a big part of the circumstances that caused it can be avoided in the future. I just hope overall that it doesn't spoil the eagerness she's been seeming to have for the trails. She was ESPECIALLY happy about our jaunt out in front on Wednesday.


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## SueC

Hope your bug is going away now, and all the scratches are healing and any strained bits too. Happens to everyone sometimes. :hug: Even if you superglued yourself to the saddle and the saddle to the horse, the horse could then fall and roll on you... ;-)

I like to see it this way: The occasional fall is made up for health-wise by getting lots of exercise and fresh air around horses, and by the mental / emotional health benefits of being around them and active. Being a couch potato is much riskier. You can even fall off a couch... :Angel:


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## CopperLove

Thank you @SueC  The bug is proving harder to shake than the fall, although I was glad for the consensus of "not the flu." I stayed home all day today :ZZZ: because I feel moderately ok during the day but can't seem to shake the chills/then burning up sensation that keeps me awake at night. I'm starting to get antsy though because I planned to be back at the ranch by this evening but that clearly isn't going to happen, no risking possibly spreading whatever I have to the new baby.

I have a co-worker who's in charge of safety and security and his office is right next to mine, and he was always joking that I was going to fall off and change my mind and trade her for a four-wheeler. When I showed him my arm Monday and jokingly blamed him for the bad luck he was mortified. He tried to convince me in earnest that I was going to get hurt and I told him... You're a retired State Trooper. You've spent the bulk of your career in much higher-risk situations than I'll ever likely face on horseback and the accident happened because WE THE HUMANS messed up. I took the fall a lot better than I would have 6 months ago because I'm in significantly better shape than I've been in for a long time. :wink:


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## SueC

That's excellent! :clap: That last bit, not the bug, of course - get well soon there!

Because you've now fallen off, I have to tell you a falling-off joke:

Two racehorses were talking about their new jockey. One said, "He can't ride very well!" The other replied, "True, but he flies beautifully!" :blueunicorn:


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## knightrider

I will tell you my electric fence story. I hope it helps you feel better. In fact, I hope you are feeling better now.

My horse had been hit by a car and killed and I was a devastated mess over it. Some neighbors had a horse they couldn't or didn't ride, and they offered him to me for free, saying, "All he needs is love."

I was not in the right frame of mind to take on that horse. He needed A LOT more than love. He was vicious and dangerous. He tried to bite and kick me every chance he got. Someone had wrapped barbed wire around his bit at one time (and I know why, because I would have gladly shot him on occasion), and his tongue was badly scarred, so he had to be ridden in a hackamore. You couldn't put a halter on him, but you could put the hackamore on him, then slip the halter on underneath and take off the hackamore. You couldn't lead him forward, only backwards. He'd back as far as you wanted. You couldn't mount him. He'd explode into bucks the minute you put a foot in the stirrup. I was young and brave, and I tackled each of his idiosyncrasies. Each time I'd resolve a problem, he'd escalate to a bigger problem. Once I was on him, he rode like a dream. He was amazing to ride, and lots of fun.

I thought I was making some progress, although it got to be more and more challenging to get on him. After some really hard bucking, I stayed on him and began to ride him past our gate out onto the trail. I had dropped the electric wire on the ground, and as he passed through the gate, he stepped on the wire, which bounced up and wrapped around his hind leg. I felt that electric jolt through me (and him) really really HARD. He exploded, and I came off, injuring my arm badly.

I was supposed to meet my best friend in the mountains for a long hike and this was before the days of cell phones, so she waited for me for 2 hours and I showed up 2 1/2 hours late. (It had taken me a long loooong time to get mounted on him).

If those people had been honest with me, I would have handled him soooo differently, and it would have been good for me and good for him. As it was, I was so fed up with him and tired of escalating the challenges, that I gave him back. I was seriously hurting over the loss of my amazing wonderful fabulous horse, I wasn't ready to deal with that evil nasty malicious brute.


That very weekend, they sold him to a 9 year old girl. It showed me how unscrupulous they were. I wasn't at all happy with them. I wished I had kept him for 6 months, just taking him for walks and loving on him. He would have been an amazing horse. My head wasn't in the right place for that. I was too hurt and angry myself over losing my dream horse.


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## CopperLove

@knightrider I'm sorry to hear of your ventures with this horse while you were trying to heal emotionally but I'm glad to know that I'm not the only person who's ever been caught up in an electric fence. I'm feeling much better this week, thank you 

ML clearly feels bad about what happened and for forgetting the fence. He is the kind of person who believes a horse senses electric and knows when the fence is on and won't touch it but I think this has caused him to re-evaluate his theory. I've definitely known horses who just seem to innately know when the fence is on or off, and Dreama knows what an electric fence is as their pasture has electric around it, but I really don't know if she understands the fence is what got her. Whatever bug I was fighting is gone and KL is healed enough from having the baby that she's back in the saddle so we rode again Sunday as a group. Dreama does NOT like the spot where that happened last Sunday... she danced sideways past that point on our way up the trail, and on our way back when ML stopped us to show KL where I hit the tree, Dreama offered a single, tiniest little buck as if to say... "Look, I don't know why we're standing here talking, but something BAD happened right here last week. Something bit me on the bum and I lost the human and we need to leave...NOW." But she doesn't shy at any other part of the trail that's close to the fence, which is what makes me unsure of whether she actually connects what happened with the fence itself.

We obviously rode with fences off this time. We did ok; I was a lot more nervous than I expected to be getting back on and I wore down quickly, especially going down-hill I could feel pain in my lower back. ML offered to ride her first like we used to do so I could see everything was ok; I declined, because I KNEW everything was ok, I just needed to get up there and prove it to myself. I did ask if he would hold her lead for a moment while I got on and took a few deep breaths just so I knew I would be assured a few moments of stillness to settle myself after getting on. She was pretty calm that day though.

He even discussed with me after the ride, that he felt I was still doing great but that if I ever felt like I needed an easier horse they would help me find a different horse that fit my needs, but "please don't give up," to not let myself taking on "a lot of horse" scare me out of the joy of riding. I assured them I wasn't going to give up as a result of one incident... I'm still far from where I want to be but I'm not just a passenger anymore, and Dreama's "GO" had nothing to do with why I fell off, any horse would have reacted similarly I think regardless of personality/energy level.


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## WildestDandelion

Just caught up on this journal. Love your story and your writing.

I've tried my hand at a number of creative endeavors to earn extra money including the crochet animals and jewelry. The things that stuck for me were painting (water color and acrylic) and face painting. I've doubled my income with them and it's been immensely helpful. I hope the jewelry making is successful for you!


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## CopperLove

@WildestDandelion I think it's so awesome that you are able to make a big part of your income from your art! I'll be honest, even while working various part-time things I probably never made that much money at the vendor sales. Everyone loves the stuffed animals but it takes a very certain kind of buyer to pick one up, and you will know, they take a lot of time to make. At the local sale I went to recently, the one I go to every year regardless of what else I'm doing because I'm friends with the Arts Center director... I thought I was about to have to fight some dude over a crochet wool hat :rofl: You always get people at festivals that will question the price of your work but he was almost personally offended by it... He kept repeating, "$20 for a hat? I could knit you something better than that. $20?"

Without bothering to mention it was NOT knit, I kept my eyes on the jewelry I was working on and just said, "Only for the ones that are wool." He finally walked away and I told my friend who was sitting with me... "I will cuss someone. You wait and see if someone else talks to me like that today if I don't cuss them." I'm not the person I was a year ago. I do NOT work customer service anymore, I don't have to tolerate that kind of behavior and I won't.

Jewelry is a really saturated market but it's something that brings me joy to make and that I really have a desire to advance my skills in... so now that I'm not really relying on it for part of my bill-paying income, I feel like it frees me up to just make stuff I enjoy and put it out there. I'm not currently making tons of money at it, but I'm not in the hole either and whatever profit I make can go directly into savings.


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## WildestDandelion

I have some crazy stories I could tell you about how people act in my booths! One of the products I sell is hand painted wood signs (also a saturated market) and there are always people who will say things like "Dont buy that one... thats one we could make ourselves." MAYBE you could, but it's not as easy as it looks. Plus, WILL you? (general "you"...)That's the question... people frustrate me...


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## CopperLove

WildestDandelion said:


> there are always people who will say things like "Dont buy that one... thats one we could make ourselves." MAYBE you could, but it's not as easy as it looks. Plus, WILL you? (general "you"...)That's the question... people frustrate me...


They won't, ever. And if they do it won't look as nice as yours because, while everyone has their own style, YOU actually are very practiced at your painting while they probably are not.

Even if they could and will make it that's still not an appropriate thing to say at all and I can't fathom why some people lose all semblance of manners when they're standing in front of someone who is selling a product (I occasionally get that with older ladies and some of the crochet stuff.) Heck, I HAVE bought stuff from people before that I definitely could have made myself. I have a pair of sea-glass earrings everyone always asks me if I made and I tell them no; I bought them from another jewelry artist who collected the sea-glass themselves and I thought that was cool and I liked their work so I bought them.

And it doesn't cost a dime to be nice to someone or to just keep your mouth shut. But some folks clearly don't understand that concept :shrug:


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## CopperLove

Sigh. Read something this week on the forum about steps forward and steps backward with horses. Tonight in the round pen Dreama decided she was going to dance around some with my bum barely in the saddle still trying to get my right foot in the stirrup because the other horses were out in a pasture they're usually not in when we're in the round pen and OH MY GOODNESS SHE NEEDED TO BE WITH THEM... even though we were shut in a pen and she couldn't go anywhere.

It unsettled my nerves... some days I feel like I've really got this and some days I feel bleh. Why couldn't I remember to turn and circle her instead of trying to stop her? :shrug: KL rode her a little while and when she got down she loosened the cinch a little and asked me if I wanted to hand walk her a bit. On a whim, I put her lead rope back up over the saddle horn and asked her to walk at my shoulder without the lead like we used to at the old barn or my parent's yard. I'm not sure if it was the walking together or KL's session with her but it seemed to bring her attention and mind back to me.

Apparently they took her on a ride earlier this week with their newest mustang they've had for a little bit because they get along well, to make the younger mustang more comfortable on the trails. They're just starting to ride the new horse some, they ended up having to pony the mustang off of Dreama to finish the ride because she wasn't handling the trails well (but it was her first time out there with not too many rides on her, so can't blame her.) Dreama apparently did very well with that.

Not sure yet if the weather is going to allow any riding on Sunday.

My sweet mother sent me this today. I marked out some letters to make it more Forum friendly. She's got quite the sense of humor


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## SueC

:rofl: That poster!

Yeah, we all have days when things seem great and others when we wonder what on earth we're doing. Sigh. :hug:

I think you and @WildestDandelion are so clever making things for market, and I agree that manners don't cost anything. Personally I'd like to shoot rude people like that to the moon. :tardis:


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## CopperLove

*Fall, tis the Season*

Sunday ended up being a very beautiful Fall day.

Dreama did something that surprised me when I went out to catch her. As usual, she saw me coming and walked away. But I’ve learned that if I stop and wait, and show her I’m not going to chase her, she’ll eventually stand still and then let me walk out to her and put her lead rope on. She walked all the way to the other side of the lot where the gate into the pasture is, so I stopped to wait.

They move their two young pigs and two sheep around the same lots they move the horses around, and the pigs happened to be out here too. One was following me, trying to figure out if I had food or scratches to give, so I bent down to scratch her back and ears and she rubbed happily around my legs. I glanced up to find Dreama walking straight for me, head down and ears forward looking at the pig curiously as if to say… “Hey! You were supposed to be paying attention to me!” When she came back to me I gave her scratches too before attaching her lead rope and heading back into the barn.

I was pretty amused because I’ve never really thought of her much as a horse that likes to be rubbed and scratched on. She tolerates it but I wouldn’t have thought she would care about it enough to want the attention too if another animal was being petted.

We were practicing tight turns in the round pen with both KL and ML hanging out watching and giving some instruction about position and balance, etc. 180 degree turns, and 360 degree turns coming back around to walk the same path, trying to learn to guide more with my seat and legs.

Here I had my second fall. This one was more normal (if there is such a thing as a normal fall off of a horse :rofl: ) It was like one of those old cartoons... First she was under me and then she just wasn’t anymore. :rofl:

Way over across the road in the same part of the pasture the horses were in Friday, one of the dogs was coming down out of the woods. We are right in the middle of leaves falling here so he was stirring up a racket and you couldn’t really see him that well, just something flinging leaves everywhere. I assume she could see that something was coming but couldn’t see what it was (and I’m sure it SOUNDED a lot bigger than it was.) She did that thing where they stop and hold their head and ears up really straight, quivering the moment before they spin to bolt, and I knew what was about to happen but not how to stop it. I was talking to her trying to twitch the reins around to keep her feet moving in the direction we’d been going but to no avail. When “IT’S GONNA EAT ME” brain officially took over and she spun around, I plopped into the dirt.

ML came over the side of the round pen to collect us but we were both already over it. Dreama was standing at the edge of the pen with her head down, I was already dusting myself off. “Dreama, really, a dog?” were the first words out of my mouth. The round pen sits close to a creek bank so it’s soft and sandy, and that sand felt a LOT better than the tree did :lol: I think this time, I was less tore up about falling than I was Friday over the dancing around with one foot dangling around uselessly with no stirrup.

Dreama came and put her head down against my shoulder and just stood there, with her best “I didn’t mean it,” face. That was a new one too; if she puts her face on me it’s usually because she’s going to try to rub on me (which I can’t let her do because she rubs so hard it would knock me over,) but she just stood there and let me rub her neck.

They asked me one more time if I was sure I was ok. I took a deep breath and said I’m fine, “but will you do my nerves a favor, and just hold her while I get back on?” There was no excuse this time… I was unscathed and Dreama was as contrite as a horse possibly could have been (and could clearly see now that it was a dog and realizing it was not a big scary monster that was about to eat us.)

So I’m happy to say that I DID get right back on this time and we did some more loops and turns without issue, I ended the session not too long after while things were still on a good note (Dreama gets bored and frustrated if we’re shut up in the round pen too long so I don’t like to make those sessions too long anyway.) I think my instructors found my motivational speech to myself and to her as we started moving again mildly amusing… “See, you’re fine. I’m fine. That was a dog, and we aren’t going to do that again. We’re great. We’re fine.” :lol:

When I dismounted I walked her around at my shoulder without the lead rope for a few minutes while ML talked about what one can TRY to do in similar situations, (try being the key word.) ML watched us weave around together and pointed out that, if I ever felt like I wasn’t doing a lot of work, that we weren’t bonding, to think about what we were just doing… 

I told him that we used to do that at home because it was the only thing I really could do with her at first and that I was surprised she remembered it because it had been so long; she actually does much better at it now than she did then. I also said it probably wasn’t much, any horse taught to lead well could probably do the same.

But KL pointed out that it DOES mean that she’s thinking about what I’m asking her, that in that moment her mind is on me. We are both different than we were when we first came out there, and that made me feel a little better. They told me that the mustangs they ride now, they had probably walked more places with those horses than they’ve walked their kids… leading them through scary places they couldn’t ride through at first. Or, like Dreama’s shenanigans Friday when the other horses were running about across the road in the pasture, walking them through areas where other horses were loose because they couldn’t behave with humans on their backs but horses playing around them. Their chill horses now are just horses with a lot of experience and guidance.

So, in some ways, all the evenings when I can’t ride for whatever reason, when I just groom her but never really thought she enjoyed it, staying in the barn and petting on her while I talk to KL and watch the kids play… all that time that feels like nothing, or feels like it’s purely for my own gratification, apparently is doing something after all.

When I got home, my partner and I went on a hike to a place we normally go to a lot in the Summer and Fall but have only managed to go twice this year now that our work schedules are so different. Yesterday was his birthday so we just wanted to spend some time together this weekend enjoying the remainder of our good weather.




























It’s a short hike but a bit of a climb to get up to the best part, where you can see over the hills and the man-made lake in the distance. As we were climbing back down I took a photo with him in it for perspective of the short climb.










Then he insisted on taking a photo of me having a struggle on the way down :rofl:










(I have no clue why some of the portrait-orientation photos are sideways but others turned out ok :| )

On a completely unrelated note... I feel like I wore cotton-candy unicorn throw-up to work today. I don't have a photo of the incident but I neglected laundry this weekend in favor of my partner's birthday activities and it shows. I wore a light-pink blouse over a gray pencil skirt... but didn't have neutral color tights or leggings available to put underneath for the cold (and for lack of shaved legs) so I wore a light blue with bright abstract floral print pair of leggings. Structurally it passed dress-code, but visually was an utter abomination. I'm back to having way too many clothing items I think... my mom and aunt really helped me out when I started my new job, gifting me hand-me-downs from friends and finds from thrift-stores and I've gone back to hoarding these clothes because they were free and "useful".

I'm thinking of doing Project 333 again (a "minimal" wardrobe project), which I did during my senior year of college (I did it then because I wanted to hide my pet rats in my closet space and put all my clothing elsewhere :lol: ) And I'm thinking about documenting the here in my journal as sort of a self-accountability thing (and because I've been really tempted to start a blog or video-blog about re-organizing my life, but I know very well I don't need to add yet another thing to my list of things I do right now.)


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## CopperLove

*Craft Sale and Project 333 "Wardrobe Challenge"*

I have another sale coming up Saturday that I really haven’t prepared for… I have lots of stuff already but haven’t made much new. I did manage to wrap this heart-shaped piece of fluorite that gave me fits, but I’m happy with how it turned out.

https://flic.kr/p/2hDAERZ

My friend who does ceramics gifted me with this gorgeous dragon pendant that I made a very simple copper bail for. It’s actually a long-awaited replacement for a similar pendant that the cat she gave to me broke almost 2 years ago :lol: I’m calling it a trade, I’ve knitted her a cowl with a cat-face on it that I’m going to gift to her tonight at dinner. 

https://flic.kr/p/2hDDsG5

I’ve started my Project 333 process, beginning with the theoretical list I like to do without looking at my closet first. I think this is the blog/person who initially created the project with the ideas behind it and rules, etc: https://bemorewithless.com/project-333/

The basic principle is that you choose 33 items from your wardrobe to wear for 3 months at a time… so, by season: Spring, Summer, Fall, and Winter. The 33 items you choose are supposed to include clothing, accessories, jewelry, outerwear, and shoes. Items not counted as part of your 33 include: sentimental jewelry you never take off, undergarments, sleep/loungewear, and workout clothing (that you’re actually going to wear for working out.)

The challenge/project doesn’t call for getting rid of anything necessarily, although having practiced this in college I can say it makes you painfully aware of how much stuff you just DON’T NEED. (It will also make you painfully aware of how quickly poor-quality clothing items wear out when you’re using them often.) You’re supposed to pick your 33 items and then box everything else up and put it out of sight.

I’m cheating/modifying a little. I finally have a stand-up jewelry box we found at an auction that I’m practicing putting away jewelry I wear in EVERY night instead of leaving it on my dresser or vanity. So that takes up the same amount of space no matter what and I really want to cycle through and wear ALL of the lovely jewelry that has been given to me or that I’ve collected over the years. I’m not counting my work bag. I also may not keep the same 33 items over a 3 month period, but if I add an item, I have to remove an item. Yesterday the weather swung very cold very fast, I think we are headed for a pretty cold Fall. So some of the items I initially put on this list will already need to be re-thought when I’m going through my closet.

I like to make a preemptive list of everything that immediately comes to mind that I really want/need to wear, then I total it up and cross out however many items it takes to whittle it down to 33. (And no, your eyes do not deceive you about the last item on the "Accessories" part of the list... it's a nickname for a hand-made purse that I found in a thrift store when we went on our anniversary trip. I'll share a photo of it when I continue the project. It's quite... unique.)

https://flic.kr/p/2hDELE8

Then I re-organize the list so it looks better. I never really got into true journaling but I love list-making and tracking projects.

https://flic.kr/p/2hDDK5R

I’ve done a lot of laundry over the past few days so that everything is clean for me to organize and properly put away. That is the main reason for doing this… with so much clothing to choose from, I get lazy and neglect laundry chores, and then end up choosing poorly put together outfits and not caring for my clothing properly. So the next phase will be organizing and truly picking my 33 items to leave in the closet. I've also made a list of some clothing items that need minor repairs, including my winter pea-coat that needs new buttons sewn on.


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## CopperLove

We took a nice ride Sunday. I started on Dreama but didn't ride her for most of it. As much as I wish I could say I'm unaffected by the recent accidents I'm admittedly feeling pretty nervous. We made a few passes up and down the driveway as a group so I could settle in and get my breathing right and relax a little before ML asked if I was ready to go up the hill.

I actually LOVE that hill, the one we went up the first time I couldn't make it across the ditch to the side of the pasture. A steep up-hill run, even though it seems like that should make me more nervous because it obviously could be more dangerous than flat ground, is my favorite. It's a big burst of energy but it's an energy with direction. When Dreama is working hard with focused direction and a goal in front of us we do fine... it's when we need to stop that everything comes apart. And inevitably we have to stop at the same spot on the trail where our first accident occurred because ML has to dismount to open the gate (has to move 3 hooked electric wire strands back.)

I dismounted here to hold the horses while we waited, but when I tried to get back on even with ML holding her lead Dreama kept stepping forward. He suggested she seemed particularly energetic and that since we hadn't been on a long ride in a couple of weeks, we should switch and see how she did.

So I rode Hoss, the mustang I very first started lessons on. After we'd gone a little way, and realized Dreama wasn't winding down at all, ML helped me adjust Hoss's stirrups and I just stayed on him the rest of the ride. On Hoss I could see a big improvement in my riding from where I started. I could relax, even rest a hand on my hip as we rode and he behaved better for me now (not that he was ever that bad before, he's a poke-along pony most of the time. :cowboy: His main vice is wanting to stop in the middle of whatever you're doing and eat if he can get away with it.)

I admitted to ML it felt like cheating but that I appreciated the switch for the day... he said not to worry about it, that he enjoyed riding her and if I'd had a good ride with Hoss that was all that mattered, not every ride had to be some big difficult learning experience. Dreama didn't do what I'd consider badly for him, but it was clear he was holding her back, prancing sideways down hills, throwing her head around when she didn't really want to stop. But she wasn't spooky at all, even with us crashing through leaves behind her, the occasional branch or twig flipping up through the leaves to touch her as she stepped on them.

And it was a really fun day but it does make my heart a little sore. I feel like we've made so much progress for me to be scared now. Especially the last fall was comical, easy to look back on and laugh when I'm not about to get in the saddle, but when I'm actually standing there about to mount it feels different no matter how my brain tries to tell my body that it's ok.

My assessment of the situation could be wrong, but it seems we've perhaps come to a couple of different problems.

Before, we were reaching a point where my riding skill was increasing and Dreama was learning to listen and behave better as well. We had several great rides together, I was riding only her and it felt great to be riding my own horse. ML was riding her occasionally through the week if I couldn't be there. Now as her fitness increases and Fall is here with cooler weather, she is SO sassy and hot. Her fitness and energy level has increased faster than my skill level.

Coupled with, as much as I wish I could say it hadn't, I think that first fall took both my confidence and hers back a notch. I don't really know what to do about either except take a few steps back, ask for some extra help when needed (needing help mounting up and some extra practice is better than not mounting up at all, right?) and keep creeping forward as before.

I had a big moment Sunday evening worrying about what happens if I CAN'T learn to ride her specifically. I talked to my partner about it, and as it often does, speaking one's thoughts out-loud even to someone who can't advise on the situation often clarifies things. And I realized... it's just not time to worry about that yet. I've been riding a handful of months compared to individuals who've been riding years or lifetimes. I've got help and good people to ride with who graciously offer their own horse to trail ride when I can't manage my own. And it's really not something to rush.

I've had a bad habit most of my life of feeling the need to get things right quickly, getting through under-grad then grad school ASAP, expecting perfection right out of the gate, needing my own feet under me immediately and having at least two back-up plans for every plan. Breath, girl :icon_rolleyes:

A few folks on HF have talked to me about having particular success easing horses into standing still while being mounted and standing better when asked to stop with positive reinforcement treat-training (carshon and AtokaGhosthorse particularly). So I did some research into how to go about this kind of training and bought a big bag of dry treats that will be easy to carry in my pockets or waist-pack. I've held off on this because my instructors don't typically do treat-based training but have often told me if there's something new I want to try I should let them know... and I feel compelled at this point to try something different.


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## carshon

Chiming in here to say - don't be so hard on yourself. Every successful horse person will tell you they have had moments where their confidence lagged. If they say no then they are lying. My hubby is very Type A - he wants to do something perfect every time - and learning to ride really humbled him. He had to learn to let go a little and go with the flow. I say this now but there were many times when he said - I don't want to ride anymore, It's the horse, It's not the horse - it's me, made any excuse not to ride and then eventually just learned to accept what is. Not to say he does not still have moments but he is so much better. Dreama sounds like a nice horse and ML sounds like a wonderful mentor to have. A lack of confidence shakes the horse too, as herd members someone has to be a leader and if you are not feeling up to it that day it will translate to her and make her feel uneasy and on edge. Remember in a herd the weak one perishes. 

Just take a deep breath and focus on how far you have already come. I will suggest looking at old journal entries from @egrogan she is a wonderful example of someone who has had moments of self doubt and has come so far. It takes years not months - and it is an ever evolving journey. That is why I love horses - I feel like it is something new all of the time. If you are having doubts do ground work - take her for a walk out of the pasture, just spend time with her. You've got this!


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## CopperLove

Thank you @carshon :hug: Along with the treat training for standing still, I'm thinking of incorporating some simple trick training as well. She can be pushy about treats but I've learned more about how to correct that kind of behavior on the ground now, and I think some simple reward-based training might do both of us some good, keeping her mind engaged and giving me a goal to work toward from the ground and not just in the saddle.

And while she may be quite challenging for me... Horses like Hoss don't just fall into your lap either. While his temperament may be a bit different because he's a different breed, his people still put a TON of work into him shaping his confidence and training. A different horse, even chosen carefully and with experienced guidance, would likely come with a new and different set of problems. And she has bloomed so much being around people who are working with her making her think about things and getting to be with other horses.

A really funny thing is, Dreama wants to act like she doesn't want anything to do with ML on the ground, she much prefers the company of KL or I, because ML is still the one who provides the most discipline and doesn't let her get away with anything while riding. But in a scary situation, it's him she'd follow through burning hoops, just like their own horses.


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## CopperLove

Last Sunday I started working on the treat-training with Dreama, and rode Hoss again for a trail, in keeping with my decision the previous week to work on reminding myself that it’s ok to work on other things besides riding and to have some fun trail rides on a truly beginner-friendly horse again.

KL and ML were out on a ride together when I arrived and Dreama was tied in the round pen. Perfect time to just hang out for a while with her and introduce the treats.

At first, after I unclipped the lead she was very worried about where those other horses were – why was SHE out here and other horses and people were riding in the woods? When she finally stopped pacing and brought her attention to me and walked back to me – a treat. When she got nervous and went to look for horses again I let her go, but when she would come back – another treat. 

She isn’t used to working in a pen without a lead rope or tack, I think it took her a few minutes to realize I wanted her attention at all, but it didn't take her long to figure out that I approved of her coming to stand beside me. Even after I ran out of treats, she had started to get the idea that beside me was a comfortable and rewarding place to be. Her eyes were still watching for other horses, with her head way up. But she would voluntarily come to stand beside me, one ear on me and one toward the barn.

Toward the end, I put a lead-rope back on. I’ve watched videos of Warwick Schiller starting with horses on a lead rope, not really demanding anything except redirecting their attention when they hit the end of the lead. I thought it might help the exercise a bit, except Dreama has already figured out when a lead rope or tack goes on she behaves differently. With the lead attached she was instantly less focused on looking for the other horses, brought her head down, and would walk around me but never pull on the end of the rope. I’m hoping that working on being more relaxed in general will eventually help enforce the good habits she’s already formed on a lead to translate under saddle as well.

We didn’t achieve anything extravagantly exciting but I was satisfied with her initial reactions and I’m happy to be working on something a little new. I’ve been away most of the week for a work trip and will be going back to the barn for the first time this week tonight. From here on out I plan on being at the barn more often since this is something I can work on without needing to be supervised.

Something has definitely changed to make her quite anxious under saddle. When KL and ML got back, ML suggested I saddle Dreama and come back out with them and ride Hoss while he rode Dreama, and she was a handful trying to mount even for him. Some of it seems like general high-energy while other behavior seems a lot more like anxiety or fear… For example, we started over a tiny ditch on the trail she’s been over many times before (both with me and with ML) and she just didn’t want to do it. She danced back and forth, came up and stopped with her feet on the edge, shaking. We stopped completely and backed the other horses up and ML gave her a moment to breathe, rub her neck, talk to her. After he finally coaxed her over she seemed to perk up… as if she had conquered a scary thing and nothing else seemed so scary.

The new plan moving forward with my permission is to let her out not only in the front pasture and lot with the horses but also turn her out up the hill with them when they go so she can burn off some energy and also see that the woods are not a scary place. ML will also be riding her some through the week when they need an extra horse. KL’s oldest son has moved back in with them and is working locally now, so between he and I, the two children, and two adults, an extra horse will be handy and maybe a more experienced rider will help her work through some of this. KL thinks a lot of it is related to the weather, that it’s cooled off and she’s feeling energetic, and also that all the crunchy leaf cover makes the rides scarier than they were during the Summer. I’m not so sure that’s all that’s going on, but that could be some of it.

More from the trail ride --

We took a different way home than I’d done before and I went down over a bank on Hoss following ML and Dreama that caused “OH MY GOD!” to fall out of my mouth.

Just before we reached the bank, ML had told me “This only looks scary, you’ve done things that are a lot harder than this. Just remember to lean back, and hold him back just a little. He’ll walk down it and maybe slide a little but you’ll be fine.”

And I was fine, but by the time I was staring down over that bank it’s not like there was any turning back :rofl: KL said she felt the same way the first time she went down it. The last two rides with Hoss have shown me how much I really have improved, and that’s a nice thing to feel.


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## CopperLove

*New Bit*

Our new bit that was on back-order from Jeffers Pet Supply arrived in time for Sunday's activities.
A kimberwicke:



This purchase was a big step for me because no one here rides with something like this and I know my immediate horse-circle isn't going to understand.

Almost uniformly, your western pleasure folks use a tom-thumb style bit (single jointed mouthpiece with short, slightly curved shanks) or gaited horse riders use varying lengths of shanked bits and varying kinds of mouth-pieces but often curbs.

Dreama didn't come with any tack, and her owner prior to me didn't have info about what she was ridden in before either. I got lucky with a saddle that fit from an auction. She accepted a tomb-thumb style bit from the get-go but never seemed as comfortable in it as she does in a low-port curb mouthpiece. It's likely that whoever was riding her before she went to the pound was doing so in some kind of curb bit since that is so common for gaited horses in our area.

My thoughts behind purchasing this new bit:
Similar mouthpiece to what she's used to and still has the curb-chain like the bits we've been using (so hopefully it feels similar to her), similar pressure points but no shanks - reducing the amount of leverage, but trying not to change too much all at once.

Unfortunately, while ML and KL have been really good for us, they are believers in shanked bits for gaited horses.

I can understand why ML has trained their prior gaited horses with shanked bits, because buyers in surrounding areas are likely going to want to ride them with shanked bits and it would be bad to set a horse up to fail with their potential next owner. Styx, the lovely calm young TN Walker/Passo Fino cross that they trained and I rode once, would go in any kind of bit shanked or not, or even a simple side-pull. It's his old shanked bit we've been using on Dreama, in the absence of other bit options until I ordered this one.

My lack of experience causes me to doubt my observations, but I don't think a long-shanked bit is helping her. Watching ML ride her with the kimberwicke on Sunday, there was less head-tossing, and I thought she seemed to be in a better mood in general, which may or may not have had anything to do with the changing of bits.

ML understands what I'm trying to do with the kimberwicke. He praises how sensitive she is. When I showed him the bit he agreed maybe she would be "less touchy" with it, but after riding her he noted that there were three or four times on the trail she tried to pull through the bit, and suggested if I feared a horse "running away with me" that choosing something between the old bit and the kimberwicke might be better.

I don't necessarily think that's true. In fact, Hoss, who is my favored poke-along pony, can be VERY strong in the bit. He's trained to neck-rein and I've gotten a lot more used to trusting that he'll steer without touching the bit. If you start using the bit too much he will sometimes try to suck it up in his mouth and pull away from you... he's used to being ridden by the kids and is the exact opposite of sensitive in the mouth. Despite this, he can be corrected and is the most unlikely horse to ever "run away" with a rider. He's very calm and unbothered by a lot of things that a lot of horses would be VERY bothered by. When he does start to get worried about something it's typically a slow build rather than a split-second decision to bolt. But these are habits he was taught early on -- had KL and ML to walk with him through scary things, teach him to think about things, instill calmness.

That's the answer. Somehow teaching Dreama, who is already set in her habits, that she doesn't WANT to pull through me. That she wants to cooperate. That she wants to stand still. Make the right decision easy and rewarding without putting a stronger bit in her mouth that makes her worry more. (I think it makes her worry more. Maybe I'm just worried more. :shrug She may try to pull through a bit with less leverage but in the shanked bit when she is trying to avoid the pressure, she tosses her head around and then not only do I get worried about what's happening or about to happen, I'm worried that I'm hurting her.

I think the best thing I can do now is to stick with my decision to go out more often and work from the ground. I told them I was going to spend more time with her and do some simple trick training, I didn't divulge that I intend to try to teach her to stand still for mounting and accept her bridle more readily with treat training because I know they don't think that works in the long run. Maybe it won't. But others have had success with it and I'll never know whether it will work for her until I pour more energy into it.

In the end, whatever progress we do or don't make, spending more time with her can only be a good thing.


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## SueC

CopperLove said:


> Our new bit that was on back-order from Jeffers Pet Supply arrived in time for Sunday's activities.
> A kimberwicke:
> 
> 
> 
> This purchase was a big step for me because no one here rides with something like this and I know my immediate horse-circle isn't going to understand.




...and that happens to be the bit I ride my horse in too (except mine is slotted so the rein position is fixed not sliding)! It's a very kind bit, because the horse can respond to the turning of the bit before any pressure gets applied, and because the rotation of the bit as reins are applied makes the increased pressure of the bit more gradual than with a snaffle, so that it's much easier not to accidentally jar your horse's mouth. Also, there's not a ton of leverage, just a little. My horse has been in this bit the ten years I had him (he was driven in snaffle variations as a harness horse and forever sticking his nose in the air on track) and goes really well in it. Finding a bit/non-bit your horse likes is an important part of the whole riding-your-horse process. A comfortable bit that's easy not to accidentally inflict pain on a horse with (= resistance, bolt etc) is worth its weight in gold! Good luck with it! 

PS: Take care with the chin-chain fitting, so it lies flat, and test it out from the ground through its angle of rotation to see it doesn't accidentally trap your horse's lips. Adjust bit up/down in mouth and play with which chain link to loop until everything is comfortable.  Some chains don't lie flat properly because not well made - you can change the chain in that case, or change to a leather strap.


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## whisperbaby22

Hope this bit works out for you, it's not one that I would use, however.


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## CopperLove

@SueC that's good to hear! There was a slotted option but we use roping reins (the braided kind with a loop and buckle that attaches to the bit) and I was worried they wouldn't fit through the slots. At the beginning I didn't actually know they were roping reins, they're just the kind my boarding family uses, they're really sturdily made and feel good in my hands, better than longer leather reins. It's easier to know where to hold my hands without thinking too much about it, sort of reminds me of using a different shaped squishy grip on a child's pencil to help them learn to write :lol:

We are still working on being easier to bridle, but it's a lot better now that we aren't using a snaffle type bit. She's not nearly as averse to letting someone put a bit in her mouth that's solid like this as she was with the joined bits so I'm hoping I'm on the right track here. Thank you for the tip about the chain! I'm hoping to be able to go out today, maybe put her bridle on and observe her with it and do some groundwork, see how she reacts and how it fits on my own rather than watching someone else ride her.
@whisperbaby22 What style of bit would you suggest for a horse who prefers a solid mouthpiece rather than jointed, in the process of trying to transition down from a shanked bit? I will admit, options locally for in-person shopping for bits are limited so I've relied on a lot of online looking and reading and HF advice on styles outside of the local farm-supply store range.


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## SueC

@CopperLove, some people are under the mistaken impression that anything with a chain is cruel, or that anything with a curb is cruel. I can talk with you in detail about the physics and practicalities of bits if you like, and send you references from specialist books on the subject - and also, I can vouch for this bit with my own personal experience with lots of bits/bitless devices and lots of horses in 40 years of riding trails, dressage training, endurance and gymkhanas, and driving horses. In my experience, the bits that work best for horses are the ones in which they are personally most comfortable, and which have the least aptitude to cause them pain in the hands of a particular rider / driver. Not every horse will like every bit, and not every horse will like a Kimberwicke, but I've had three horses already that preferred this bit (or a port-mouthed pelham) over a jointed snaffle and various other options. I've also had horses that go best in light eggbutt snaffles, and horses that love and do well with bitless. With driving, there's various other things too that work well, like the Simpson bit, but you don't use that riding. It is a common misconception that it's the severity of the bit that makes a horse listen - and this is completely untrue. It's how kind the bit is in the hands of a particular rider and the mouth of a particular horse, and how well it can be used for communication for that horse-rider combination, and how good the rider is at training a horse (by understanding that a bit is not a big gun to hold in your hand to make the horse do stuff, but a communication device to be used softly by someone who understands how to teach a horse cues).

If you give your horse some bit / bitless options, by borrowing things too for example, you will soon work out what she likes and what works well for you. It will be interesting what she says about the Kimberwicke (which in Australia is called a Spanish snaffle).  Being happier to take it when bridling is a good start.


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## whisperbaby22

I prefer the slotted kimberwicks because there is a more stable position of the reins. This is important even on a mild curb like this. I understand why you like your reins, that makes sense. Also, some horses like a bit of "give". What I would suggest is that your keep an eye on where your reins end up after a ride. If they end up at the same place, that may be fine. But during contact, the reins may slip so that one side is has more leverage than the other. A lot will depend on your style of riding. But the important thing is that you will learn from this bit. If your horse goes better in it, that is the deciding factor.


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## CopperLove

@Whisperbabby22 I'm sure there are also other reins I could try that wouldn't be so long and lanky like the traditional western leather reins you see here locally and that have a good solid attachment to the bit (The first time ML rode her she actually broke the reins I had at the time, but it was because they were a poorly made clip-on style and a clip broke.)

I got the name of the style of rein wrong when I mentioned them in my previous post, barrel reins is what I meant to say they are. I don't think I have to have the thickness of the barrel rein necessarily, but having a set of reins that isn't so long the excess flops over to the side makes me a lot more comfortable. The first reins I tried were western style split reins, and THAT made me extremely nervous... with the ends knotted together but always fretting they were going to come untied and I'd lose one.

If she does seem to be calmer with this new bit, I wouldn't be opposed at all to upgrading to a kimberwicke that has the slots and changing reins to fit it.

I love how Hoss neck reins, that's something I would love to teach her and not be using the bit to steer much at all, but I'm not sure if that's something she could be taught or if the style of training she had previously would make it difficult.


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## whisperbaby22

This is one way to teach neck reining. Keep in mind that I am not a trainer, just a long time rider. I keep a loose rein and use two hands, and keep my thumbs close. I cue with the outside rein and correct with the inside when I want to turn. After a while the horse will turn when the outside rein cues, and I can start using one hand. 

It's always fun to try different things, but this is a simple way of getting a nice neck rein on a horse that has worked for me.


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## CopperLove

@whisperbaby22 I've heard the process described similarly before I think.

My mom described to me how she and friends used to teach horses to neck rein (mind you, it was a fairly long time ago, she's in her sixties now and this was probably in her late teens or early twenties, and I'm not sure if she was describing just the teaching of neck reining or if this was part of the process of starting the horses under saddle as well or maybe a mix of.) She said they would have one person riding and one person leading so that when the person riding gave the cue on the neck with the rein, the person on the ground would turn/move them on the lead.

The way you describe seems a lot more practical, easier to incorporate in everyday work without having to have a partner on the ground.


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## CopperLove

*Bread!*

Some time ago I made a thread about ways people save money, or are frugal, or minimal, etc. because they need to be or simply because they want to, and the topic of making your own bread came up.

Since then I've been meaning to try it out, see if I want to make my own bread at home enough to look into a bread maker, or if I like the process of doing it by hand, etc.

I finally did it!

My first, poorly photographed, attempt at bread-making:









I started much too late in the evening. We got back from our grocery trip after 8 p.m. and I figured I could have a loaf of bread done not too far past my usual bed-time. I was wrong. By the time the loaves cooled and I could cover them it was after midnight. :ZZZ:

I think because I was so tired I was a bit underwhelmed with the results when the loaves initially came out of the oven. I also think I was comparing it in my mind to the only other home-made loaf bread I've ever tried, which was sourdough (and much different) or to homemade rolls. The next evening when I got off work, I warmed a slice and ate it with apple butter spread and was very pleased with the results. It was a really simple recipe for a basic loaf of bread that called for white flour but I subbed for wheat. It's not the prettiest but it's definitely bread!


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## SueC

Well, congratulations on joining the breadmaking ranks!  You are now in glittering company. ;-) Get set for a lifetime of experimentation and delicious discoveries!

Sourdough tastes amazing: I'm still learning to do it properly - because I've not had much time to dedicate to it and keep making yeast-raised bread instead most of the time - have all the recipes, have made the odd loaf, but keep on returning to what my breadmaker can do in one cycle, which is also pretty amazing stuff - rye and sunflower, for example... and you can make fruit loaf (cinnamon, sultanas, blueberries, citrus peel, nuts, whatever you like), herb breads (not too much garlic in the dough or you'll kill the yeast, guess how I know :Angel, walnut bread, bright orange pumpkin bread, flatbreads and pizzas if you just take the dough out before it bakes, also yeast pastries for tray plum cakes and hazelnut scrolls and chocolate/almond horns, etc. Great things await you, and what you make will taste superior to anything you can buy, simply because you will put in better quality ingredients than is commercially done! 

My first baking was inauspicious. I wasn't allowed to make things in the kitchen as a kid under normal circumstances, so I was in at the deep end when I left home as a teenager. My first pizza base was like blu-tack! Do you have that stuff in the States? It's for sticking posters on the walls. I didn't dare make bread before I got my pizzas right... :rofl:

Well done on making a very edible start!


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## CopperLove

@SueC I'm quite familiar with blu-tack although I think we might have called it something else that I can't recall now, we used a lot of it hanging posters in art school :rofl:

I remember loving sourdough. I haven't even started to look up how that's done because I know it's different and I don't want to get in over my head too fast and I've heard it can be complicated.

Mmmm herb breads. What happens if you kill the yeast, is it another brick situation? :lol:

I vaguely also wondered what would happen if I had used self-rising instead of all purpose flour. That's usually all I keep at home because I can make southern style dumplings, biscuits, pancakes, mix it with meal for cornbread, etc. But self-rising along with yeast sounds like it would make an overflowing bread-monster :rofl:


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## SueC

Yes, the self-raising along with yeast could definitely give you bread that creeps out of the cooking container - as can accidentally putting in twice the yeast, which is something I do every now and then because suddenly, as the bread is mixing, I have a moment of panic because I can't remember if I actually put yeast in or not!  Ye olde creeping bread tends to just give you a huge muffin-top though, and a burnt smell at the end of the cooking cycle as the bread hits the roof of the bread machine, if you're using one... and these bread-monsters are a bit tricky to get out of the pan in one piece and to slice up...

By the way, if you ever break a loaf, you can still slice bits of it, and then get busy with the rest, making bread and butter pudding, or a version of Welsh rarebit where you pour the onions and cheese sauce straight over bits of bread in a soup plate, or you can toast the bits in the oven and then make breadcrumbs in the food processor etc.

If you kill the yeast, yes, you get a brick - and this also happens if I use too much straight wholemeal flour (I get both rye and wheat from a local grower who stone-grinds their own grain) and not enough bread-making / premix flour - 50/50 tends to prevent brickmaking - or you can experiment with bread improver - or do the straight flours as sourdough, where you won't need premix. Also, the straight flours perform fine for me as flatbreads, pizzas, gozleme, tray plum cake etc; just a problem when making loaves.

I've got a few photos for you for inspiration.

Wholemeal Lebanese flatbread served with lamb, tabbouleh and yoghurt:



Sandwich with pumpkin bread:



This loaf isn't particularly orange because I was using the flesh of a variety that's not so colourful - but if you use bright orange pumpkin, you get amazingly orange bread which looks great for sandwiches.  You just substitute 1/4 of your flour with mashed pumpkin and adjust added liquids accordingly.

This is calzone - Italian foldover pizzas traditionally used as portable lunches; can be eaten cold. The one in the photo is cold, otherwise the mozzarella would be oozing out after slicing - the best thing about foldovers is how the mozzarella gets super-stretchy and makes long delicious strings while you're trying to eat it - and the second best thing is the super-crunchy top when fresh from the oven. Normally you don't slice the calzone in half (unless you're sharing), I just did it for the photo - but you'd just hoe in with a knife and fork when it's hot, and it's great fun to tap the top with your knife because it sounds like someone is knocking on a door! 



This is gozleme, a related Turkish thing that's pan-fried in olive oil instead of baked in the oven. We fill ours with steamed chopped silverbeet/spinach, crumbled feta cheese and cracked pepper - that's it. Takes so little time to make, and Turkish people have it for breakfast too! It tastes amazing.







Apple pockets, which is a German version of apple pies using brioche pastry (yeast pastry with egg and butter):





And this is something completely different that doesn't use yeast or any other raising agent, but is a great winter food, from Norway: Lefser, which is flatbreads panfried from a 50/50 mix of straight wholemeal rye flour and mashed potatoes - topped with salmon and sour cream. Something totally different which I was very glad to discover in an old self-sufficiency book! 



Aaah, food... :happydance:


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## CopperLove

@SueC We do something here that's sort of a mix between the gozleme and the apple pockets. Both my grandmothers used to make "fried pies". I've not tried myself but I'm sure I could manage to make them if I tried.

They don't use a yeast bread mix, they can be achieved with self-rising flour or possibly all-purpose (I'd have to check to be sure) mixed up a bit like southern US biscuit dough, rolled out & filled with fruit filling (home-made jams, preserves, fried apples, etc. are the best but can be done with store-bought fillings as well) then pan-fried in your choice of oil.

There's also something similar to the Lefser. "Potato cakes" are leftover mashed potatoes mixed with some type of flour and maybe an egg? They're another thing I've never personally attempted to make but dad loves them and I've seen mom make them occasionally. They are typically formed like fried cornbread (hoe cakes as they're called locally) and served plain as a side to the meal like a hoe cake would be.

Those all look so amazing 

I'll have to try making my own calzones soon. They're one of my partner's favorite things to eat (right up there with lasagna) but I've not attempted them at home, even from store-bought dough.


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## CopperLove

*Ground Progress, Holiday Woes*

Dreama has figured out this treat thing quickly. I've been incorporating clicker training... associate a sound with a treat, then associate doing the correct behavior with the sound and a treat, so that hopefully the sound eventually becomes the positive reinforcer.

I haven't really worked that many sessions with her and she already knows the sound. When we were in the round pen yesterday and I had run out of treats, I asked her again to stand beside me, let me lean over her and hop a couple of times as if I were mounting. When I made the sound she bent her head to the right looking for the treat. Which is EXACTLY what I want because when I do mount, I want her looking to my right foot to take a treat while I get my foot in the stirrup.

If I'd been on her back yesterday I'm about 100% certain I'd have been on the ground again. For the same reason as last time. Dogs in leaves across the road in the pasture. For some reason, even though she has to have witnessed this many times by now, the dogs playing in those leaves has become the scariest thing EVER. Since I wasn't on her back I had the chance to stay on the ground, stand with her and ask her to face the scary thing with me.

I didn't have the lead rope on her the first time she started to spook. Leaves rattled and her head shot up, neck stiff, big eyes. I was out of treats to shove in her face and distract her with. I put my hand around the knot at the bottom of her rope halter, spoke to her and waited. She took off in a circle around me but gave to the pressure under her chin and stayed with me without pulling me. We made a quick circle and she stopped back at my right shoulder. We repeated this about 5 times before she finally stopped. After she relaxed her head I put her lead rope back on and asked her to walk forward with me. By this time, the dogs had trotted out of the leaf pile and she could see them. We stood and watched them for a while before going back to what we were doing.

A bit later the dogs went crashing back into the leaves and she spooked again. Again, lead rope was off (when we work on cooperation in the round pen, I want to make it seem like her idea to stay with me rather than forcing it constantly, and it seems to me like it's starting to work) and she took off away from me. This time she went and looked over the pen at the "scary thing" though, turned and ran back past me on the left to swing around and stop on my right without touching me. I'm not going to lie, I'm glad that beside me is starting to be a good place, but it's a little intimidating to be shut up in a round pen with a large animal running at you before you realize it's not about to trample you :rofl:

The best thing about these incidents was that 1.) I wasn't on her back when it happened this time 2.) KL wasn't outside the pen watching, she was indoors doing chores and tending to the baby. So there was no one to run to but me. And 3.) she had multiple opportunities to see that nothing was coming out of the leaves to eat her and things turned out perfectly fine being with me, not the other horses, not ML or KL.

She is a bit difficult to catch right now after she's been turned out, and bribery must be involved in the form of food or treats (but I was able to catch her for the first time a few days ago with only treats in my hand, without having to play musical-feed-buckets at feeding time with the other horses.) But overall I think being turned out full-time with the other horses, not just in the bottom pasture, has improved her attitude about things. It's like she's not as worried she's missing out on something with the other horses. I'm sure she's also burning off some pent up energy, she seems to have been more relaxed in general toward the end of this week. She's also quickly figured out she's not the boss with those other horses. Spending time with me probably doesn't seem so bad now since I will correct her for bad behavior, but I'm not going to bite her rear like an angry mare :lol:

Here's a photo of Dreama strategically ignoring me because we're done:



This in itself is actually an improvement even though she looks pretty uninterested in me. She's not pulling on the lead or turning sideways to try to see her favorite buddy in the barn. She's never been bad about setting back while tied, but she does have a habit of swinging sideways, instead of facing whatever she's tied to, so she can get a better look at everything what's going on and where other horses are. Which is usually not a big deal, except for when she's tied with other horses and her butt is in someone's face. :icon_rolleyes:

>.>.>.>.>

*Going to take a long moment here to unload about something that's not a very unique problem, before I have to travel home for Thanksgiving on Thursday.* Just pour it all out there and get it off my chest. A lot of folks face family drama around this time of year but we don't typically and I've been pretty nostalgic lately, looking forward to getting extra time off for the holidays and spending it with family. So I was a bit blindsided by what's going on.

Mom came to visit yesterday evening to see my new kitten, but she also wanted to tell me in person before I came for Thanksgiving that she would still be cooking and wanted to send the food she prepared with me but didn't wat to attend the planned family Thanksgiving. She insisted I still go because even if my grandmother does see another Thanksgiving, this is likely the last one where she'll remember who I am as her Alzheimers progresses.

My Aunt (the one who gave us Dreama) apparently posted something snarky on facebook that was directed at, but not naming, Mom. Mom isn't angry but is incredibly hurt... but I'm angry. When she was telling me about what had been going on at home I was so angry my face was hot.

There are a couple of situations causing strain between family members. Aunt is primarily the one caring for my grandmother (these are all Dad's family members by the way; Mom's parents are dead and she's not particularly close anymore with her side of the family aside from a few people.) Dad and my Uncle are absolutely NOT helping the way they should. The care for an ill family member often tends to fall on one sibling while the others are largely absent from what I have seen locally, and it's absolutely not fair. Dad will come if Grandmother is ill and needs someone to sit with her around the clock, Uncle will come if she needs to be driven to the doctor but usually isn't around. I live over an hour away from my family so I'm largely removed from the situation (although I have some great-aunts who, I'm sure, think I should be traveling home every weekend, I'll get into that later.) Mom has been there for Grandmother when she could be, on days when no one else would come help Aunt, or days that Aunt would be out of town.

Aunt and Mom have been going to local auctions together. On the weekend in question, she sent Mom a message saying that her son had to work (they're currently living with grandmother while in the process of moving) and that she wasn't going to be able to go, but that if Mom and another friend wanted to go, it looked like there was going to be a lot of interesting stuff. Mom responded that she didn't really have any money to spend anyway so she wouldn't go either if Aunt wasn't going.

Later, Aunt posted something along the lines of, "Even though people have known weeks in advance that I wanted to get away to go do this, no one's around the day I want to go. Be careful, not everyone who says they'll be there really will be. Just saying." I saw the post, didn't think much about it, but she deleted it later after mom left a like on the post (which I think is a big part of why mom assumes it was directed toward her.) I suggested to mom that since Aunt had never directly ASKED her if she could come to stay with Grandmother that maybe the post wasn't directed at someone else.

But apparently there have been other things going on as well that make Mom believe Aunt would have reason to be upset at her... Instead of calling Dad directly, Aunt apparently has been telling mom things to tell him, trying to use her as a point of communication, to which Mom would say she needed to talk to Dad, and Dad finally told her not to wrap mom up in the middle of it if she wanted to talk to him. Dad isn't the easiest person to talk to so I can understand how she gravitates toward trying to use mom, but still is not appropriate to put mom in that place.

Aunt is struggling with RA, facing chronic pain that keeps her from doing things the way she used to. This is the same aunt that lost the stable business when the association that owed the barn raised her rent. Her Fiance recently purchased a property that used to be her grandfather's farm but they've been having problems... they almost split last month but then didn't. They were having problems before they ever bought the property, and her name isn't on the loan at all, so I'm sure that's stressful. Dad doesn't want Fiance around on his and Mom's property at all anymore because he's been disrespectful to Aunt and to Mom. Initially, Aunt was also upset with her Fiance over the incidents that led to this, but somehow that all seems glossed over now.

In fact, when she quit the stable business, she and Fiance had too many horses they weren't doing anything with (5 big ones and 2 minis), but didn't want to sell any and really didn't have the room to take all of them back to their little fenced-in lot and turn them out. Dad offered to pay for all the materials if Fiance wanted to build some stalls in a metal garage-type building that was already on Mom and Dad's property, put gates up across the front and back, etc. So for free, minus the labor Fiance put in, they had a place to keep their horses when the lease was up on the stable until they could move to the farm.

They rarely ever cleaned their horse's stalls. They had bred one of the mares (supposed to have been the fiance's horse) to Aunt's stallion, and she foaled while she was there. He didn't prep her area to be safe for her foal, then when the foal was having trouble nursing he wasn't trying to feed it or get milk from the mare, never called out a vet when it was having problems... no surprise, the foal died. On the very same day their mare foaled, the mare of a client who had boarded with my Aunt foaled and SHE WASN'T SUPPOSED TO BE PREGNANT... which means Aunt had managed to carelessly let her stallion get to this horse while it was in her care and hadn't said anything about it. I had nightmares for weeks after that I would walk into Dreama's stall and there would be a foal.

Their horses were constantly standing in filth, two of them on concrete floor with no shavings. In the entire time I boarded with her and the time the horse's spent in mom and dad's back yard, not one horse's feet were trimmed. I can't even imagine the state of their hooves. When they finally moved their horses, they didn't clean a single stall. Left them piled with dung. Mom and Dad never said anything because they knew she was going through a rough time. Her RA made it hard for her to clean but supposedly Fiance was supposed to be doing it. I told mom that when she decided what she wanted to do with the barn, I would help her clean and re-organize. There's only one clean stall in the place and it was Dreama's, that the mini stays in at night now.

So during the time period that Aunt has decided she's angry with Mom for whatever reason, she also sent her a message saying "If it's convenient for you, I'll come get our tack out of your barn." Which seems like a strange way to word something to a woman you've been hanging out with, shopping with, etc. for months without a problem. I told Mom she should ask her if shes going to shovel some horse poop while she's there since they never came back to take care of that either. (I didn't really mean that and Mom would never say such a thing.)

I know the best thing to do at this point is just let it blow over. I still think Aunt is a good person at heart, but her issues don't need to be directed at Mom, and as much as I understand she's struggling you can't use your own problems to excuse **** poor behavior to the people around you.

I also know that I am likely to be asked where Mom is if she doesn't show up. More than likely it will be Aunt asking. I haven't decided yet if I should honestly tell her she's hurt mom's feelings and she doesn't feel comfortable participating or if I'll just say she's not feeling well. Probably the latter, since I'll probably be asked in front of other family members and that's not a can of worms I want to open.

The other thing mom told me is that my great-aunts were upset that I didn't visit my great-uncle while I was traveling for work a few weeks ago. I shared a photo from a museum we got to visit as part of the conference and one of them messaged me to let me know where the great-uncle, who I've only seen a handful of times in my life, lives "in case I want to stop on the way home." I thanked her for letting me know he was close-by, but told her I was traveling for work and with a co-worker and probably wouldn't stop anywhere on the way back.

I use facebook to share positive aspects of life. I think there's enough misery and gossip and drama to go around without fanning the flame online but I'm apparently in the minority on that in my family? And these women are all much older than I am.

Now, I don't really know if it's the truth that they were "upset" because this info also came from Aunt, and she has never gotten along with her aunts. But, why would anyone else in the family know I hadn't stopped to visit this great-uncle if the great-aunt who messaged me hadn't said something about it to someone else? I considered directly asking her about it but decided I'll wait. My great-aunts have been displeased with me for a while because I don't visit home or church enough anymore, etc. even though it's not like they've ever made an effort to see me (even before I moved away from my hometown) and have never asked if I've found a church to attend where I live now. I've known for a long time now that one of them is going to catch me on the wrong day, prod me the wrong way, and they aren't going to like the response they get. They like people who can be molded, and I was the perfect play-pretty for a while. They don't care for me now that I've outgrown what they thought I was supposed to be.



*OK, my long-winded word vomit is over now.* I'm just really disappointed that all this is happening right now. I was really happy that Dreama had brought me closer to my Aunt, because I've always seen a lot of myself in her, and my grandmother. I'm disappointed because despite everything, I never thought she would be someone who would hurt Mom, and my mother means more to me than any person in the world.


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## carshon

Ah families! Gotta love them!


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## CopperLove

*Our Music, on Spotify!*

I found out recently that the folk music album I worked on with a local group of musicians is available on Spotify now. I thought it was only going to be available on their website and on disk. I'm over the moon about this, as it's the kind of thing I've wanted to be a part of for a long time :happydance: The album art was mostly hand-made but I helped them with the digital layout for free since they let me sing in it :rofl:



Ironically enough, I knew the band lead in college... we each had our very first college course ever together but didn't know each other then and somehow managed to hover around the periphery of the same friend group throughout college without ever actually getting to know each other. Then while I was in grad school working at a local coffee shop, and he had started his music career, he started working there part time as well and that's how we really got to know each other even though we'd met before many times. Funny how life works out like that sometimes.

Anywho, thought I would share just because I can. I hope the link works :lol:
@SueC track 16, "The Wind and Rain" is the death/murder ballad we were talking about once. "Greenwood Sidey" and "Nottamun Town" are also quite eerie in that way, although Nottamun Town is pretty nonsensical it manages to sound pretty foreboding. "Tom Dooley" is about a murder as well but is oddly cheerful with its tune.

https://open.spotify.com/album/72NrhfiD7xkVrnepUaVLw8?si=g6g9kw0fQgWgpEzaR3LKHQ

The first song I ever sang with Andrew was track 24, "Hushabye" which has reference to horses. I think he is a bit enamored by the idea of horses but is terrified of them even from the ground. At one point while working on a music video for one of the songs, he joked that he'd thought about asking if we could get some clips of me on Dreama, and I had to explain to him that a side-saddle was in fact a completely separate piece of equipment and that ladies did not, in fact, just get tossed up onto a regular saddle side-ways in dresses. :rofl:

There are some other funny nods in the song choices he made for each of us... For example "Kitty Alone", track 13, is traditionally sang by a man, but he changed the wording ever so slightly and I sing it... and we all know I'm waiting on a proposal for marriage :rofl: I also sing "Lonesome Scenes of Winter" in which the singer is attempting to propose to Mary (Mary is my first name) but she refuses.

I think my favorite on the album is "Wild Mountain Thyme", track 12, but I'm also quite partial to "The Blackest Crow", track 6. It's apparently an old Irish tune, but it's pretty popular with folk musicians here.


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## SueC

@CopperLove, thanks for this reminder! We don't have Spotify but I dug out your old PM and have been sampling tracks straight off the website. "The Wind And Rain" gives me goosebumps and you have a wonderful voice. I love harmonising like that.  Here's an Australian folk/indie band's song with those sorts of harmonies:






I've been dipping into this album this morning and decided I like enough of it to get the whole thing, not just that goosebumps song. I don't have an Appalachian folk album yet and it's Christmas this month, so this will be a good excuse!

That cover art is very nicely done. There's a lot of commercially successful bands with crappy album covers, including some of our favourite bands. Well done you!  

It must be a wonderful feeling to do something like this. Any more musical collaboration plans?

PS: Who knitted the grass?


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## CopperLove

@SueC Ah, sorry! I wondered if that even went through, right after I sent it I thought.. Hm, does Horseforum even allow sending direct links like that through pm?

- I like that song a lot, thank you for sharing! I think it's really interesting, how folk music is shared and spreads and the similarities and subtle differences.

Aww, I'm glad that you've enjoyed it  I wonder if they've ever sold their music to anyone in Australia before :lol: It's a mix of Appalachian and Irish folk music, there seems to be a lot of Irish background in the older folk music from this area, which I hadn't realized before working on this.

This album was sort of their farewell to folk music. While they were all trained in traditional music, they really are more experimental and are trying to lean away from being dubbed a "Bluegrass" band as they try to seek out different venues, and folk music is heavily tied to bluegrass music here. He did ask if I would be interested in participating in his next project but I don't know when that might be.

I wasn't responsible for the knitting this time :lol: Another young woman who works at the coffee shop did that. We have quite the group of knitters there since there's also a small yarn shop in the back with the bookstore and the owner hosts "sit and knit" 3 times weekly. The stitching on the fabric was done by an older employee from the morning shift who quilts. Andrew drew the pigeon people, and the tree too I think.

The fiddle player on the album and the flute player were also non-band members who worked at the shop... the female band member used to work there as well. It was apparently quite the place to draw creatives :lol: Really we all just needed part time work to provide some sort of small stable income while we pursued other freelance things.


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## SueC

I'm not sure exactly what you're sorry for!  

My DH downloaded the album off Bandcamp yesterday and will put it on the iPod today. I'm looking forward to getting all Appalachian!


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## CopperLove

@SueC the sorry was for double-sharing :rofl:


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## SueC

No, sometimes I need a reminder! It had slipped to the bottom of my brain while we were dealing with bronchitis (still not 100% after three weeks of it, grrrr) but now I've got something new on my iPod! :happydance:


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## carshon

I loved the Wind and Rain track! Thanks for sharing the link.


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## CopperLove

@SueC Oh yeah, that is rough :frown_color: Glad to see you're at least starting to get over it well enough for rides thought!
@carshon Thank you!


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## CopperLove

*Progress, Pep-Talks and Hypnosis*

*Progress - Standing Still*

Saturday I went out alone and tacked up Dreama unsupervised. KL knew I just wanted to spend time with her and practice, and since she stayed indoors thankfully the boys did too. I usually enjoy their company but sometimes they are full of questions when I really just want quiet :rofl: The kids staying away also meant the dogs stayed away.

The small amount of treat-training I’ve done working on putting her bit and bridle on has made a world of difference. That, and ML and KL have been riding her in the new bit and I wonder if she is simply less-opposed to the new one.

I wanted to practice, with saddle on, how we’re doing with the treat training trying to convince her to stand still while I mount.

It’s been convenient for everyone involved that ML and KL are riding her when they need an extra horse. The last mustang they bought is young and broke to ride but still needs experience. ML is still working on the younger mustang that’s been with them since before I came there, starting her under saddle. So they’re down to 2 fully trained horses of their own, a youngster that’s advancing from green-broke, and one that’s not ridable yet. So it’s handy for them to have an extra horse that either of them can ride while other family members can ride their horses, and I get a horse that’s worked more often by someone with more experience than me. I often think about the quarter horse I took lessons and trail rides on toward the beginning. They sold her to a friend and I miss her - I think if I could have afforded to keep another horse I'd have bought her even though she needed special work on her front feet to stay sound. She was so firm and steady. They're convinced their friend will end up giving her back to them when he gets tired of paying to take care of her feet, so I may see her again.

Out in the round pen, Dreama did well standing still when I put my foot in the stirrup. Treat.

Weight in the stirrup, no movement. Treat.

Bounce as if I were about to mount. Still no movement. Another treat.

I repeated this several times and had her walk with me without touching the lead each time I moved her around the ring.

It was going so well I decided to do something new. I hoisted myself belly-over the saddle. That’s as close as I’ve EVER been to being in the saddle unsupervised, but she was very relaxed and I felt comfortable. I was pleasantly surprised that she stood very still, and I gave her the cue and tried to offer her the treat from her right side while I was over her back.

We’re not quite there yet. She didn’t understand I was offering her a treat from her back and did start to walk off after a moment. I just don’t think she was sure about what I was asking for. After all, it’s probably been a long time, if ever, since she’s had a human hanging over her back like a sack of potatoes :rofl:

I took it back a few steps and rewarded her for standing still with weight in the stirrup and then called it a day. I’m sure since they’ve been riding her, ML has been working on this too without the treats. I’m feeling a bit better about things, and I’m starting to feel like I really want to get back in the saddle with her again.


*Hypnosis?*

This is a long, but worthy, only semi-horse related thing that happened last week.

I have a co-worker, our security officer who’s a retired state trooper, who is extremely interested in stress-reducing techniques likely as a result of dealing with his own problems from his past profession. His office is next-door to mine and he asks often how the “horse thing” is going. He’s the same co-worker who has joked numerous times that I need a 4-wheeler and not a horse.

He swears that “hypnosis” works to change bad habits, phobias, etc. I always laugh. I probably believe in a lot of things science can’t prove but that’s not one of them. But he always tries to convince me I should try it. Finally last week, I said alright, I know what you can hypnotize me to do! Make me not afraid to fall off my horse!

I was joking.

Immediately, he told me to sit down.

Heck, we’re really about to do this…

I discovered what he was referring to isn’t really “hypnosis” as we think of the stage trick. It was some kind of association/disassociation theory of a thing that was kind of interesting.

I lost track of some of the steps, but I was first asked to describe something soothing (the ocean, in this case.) Then, out of the 5 senses which 2 did I think were my dominant (sight and touch I decided.) Then to state what feelings I was trying to get rid of, and what was I really afraid of (the height, the actual act of falling, getting hurt, or just the unknown?) and what I wanted to replace them with.

He asked me to associate a shape and color with the negative feelings, and a shape and color with the positive feelings.

There was a bit in there about imagining the negative shape/color fading away and being replaced with the positive shape/color, which is the part I mainly thought was a bit of mumbo-jumbo. He asked me then to visualize my positive shape/color, and then think about being on Dreama, and rate how nervous I felt on a scale of 1-10.

I assured him that’s not really how it works… when I visualize us in my mind I only ever think about all the fun we could get into. Forest trails, water crossings, running up that big hill together. I told him I simply couldn’t put a rating on something that I never felt worry about from the ground.

Anyway, during this it also came out that I have a fear of heights. I have trouble standing on a step-stool sometimes if I’m looking up. So we went up one of our side stair wells where there is a lovely view out a large window over the pond near campus and into the hills. He asked me multiple times to step up next to the stair rail and look down once we were at the top and to rate my nervousness.

To be honest, when I was thinking about how nervous the height made me, it was a LOT more than I expected, because I usually try not to assess that feeling too much. Each time he would then ask me to picture my color and shape associated with what I wanted to feel. Every time we looked down and back up, the feeling eased a little more as he pointed out that much like horseback riding, if I didn’t come up on the tall stairs I couldn’t see the beautiful view out the window. Since I wasn’t falling, why was I feeling anxiety about falling? And if I leaned forward too much I’d be leaning against the rail, and could catch the rail. So if I knew that falling or not falling was within my power, why did I feel anxious about looking down over the rail?

All in all, it was basically a pep-talk about not creating monsters in my head that didn’t exist. Which, hypnosis or not, is a pretty good concept to remember and works well when applied to horses.

But the most important and touching part was when we were done: On a completely serious note, he told me he was sorry and thought he hadn’t been a very good office neighbor… that even though he pokes fun at me about falling off, getting hurt, needing a 4wheeler instead of a horse, as a trooper he saw so many people hurt by other people, and car crashes where people died because another person was under the influence or doing something stupid… and that if my horse makes me happy I should have fun and not be worrying about things before they happen.

That seems to have been my theme for 2019. Let go. Learn to plan but stop worrying about bad things that haven’t even happened yet.

2018 was a rough year for me… a few months in, I quit a stable but poorly paying full-time job because it was so stressful it was destroying me, switched to multiple part-time jobs that were better for me mentally but then faced financial stress because my hours were never certain week to week and I wasn’t saving nearly as much money as I was comfortable with. I started seriously full-time job hunting toward the end of the year and accepted Dreama as a gift on Christmas Eve.

A month into 2019 I accepted the offer for the job I have now, and it’s taken me THIS LONG to start to reasonably unwind. And Dreama is helping teach me to stop rushing things.


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## carshon

That is so sweet that he is trying to help. I think you have pointed this out before but so much of riding is actually visualization. Not so much as I visualize myself not falling but - looking where you want to go (not looking down) looking ahead. And it makes sense to focus on something pleasant to dispel the nervousness you feel. 

I have severe arthritis in both of my hips (first hip replacement takes place early March 2020) and last summer I had to teach my rather nervous/high strung TWH mare to stand still for me to mount. And not mounting in the traditional sense. Since my hips have impingements I have little to no lateral lift so in order to mount my horse I literally have to lay across her back and up her neck and pull my leg over her rump and down her side. This was very hard for Tillie as she never stood still to be mounted. I did treat training just like you are doing . And now to mount I put a very small bowl of feed in her hay bag (I ride at state parks) that is on the side of the trailer. As she is eating I get on a mounting block and lay over her and pull my leg across. Once in the saddle and adjusted I lean down and give her a treat. It took a bit to teach her to turn her head for the treat so we started with carrots that she could see and I did not have to hold in the palm of my hand. This has worked very well for us and Tillie now stands like a rock when I get on and off.

Keep up the good work - and never feel rushed or forced to meet someone else's time table. You have nothing but time to build your bond with Dreama - make it thoughtful and enjoyable for both of you.


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## SueC

Had my first proper listen all the way through yesterday while gardening, @CopperLove!  Your singing is amazing. I mean, I know where the notes are, but I don't have an instrument like that when I'm singing. I think your sinuses must be all the right shape and the nerves to your vocal cords super fine tuned and you've probably had buckets of practice since childhood... very beautiful voice. I played some tracks back over the main speakers when my husband came home and he too thinks you have a marvellous voice, and I'm not just saying that because I happen to be friendly with you on here, I'd have said that if I'd heard that randomly on the radio. But you know what, it's such a nice experience to be listening to good music, and actually not have everyone be anonymous to me personally who's playing on it - to say, "Well, isn't that lovely, and that's also the same person who does the craft and that gorgeous dress and whose horse journal I read etc." Music is normally removed from that kind of context these days because of mass media, when of course in prior days music-making was a communal thing and you did usually know the people making the music in your village. I've not had music where I've known the people since I stopped teaching when we moved out to our farm - the school I was at was very musical and it was so lovely to go to lunchtime concerts where staff and students you knew presented songs - it was another dimension to knowing these people, and very humanising.

I can semi-share a bit of that with you - here's a kid I taught when he was 13, five years later at a local open-air venue with his didgeridoos and guitar - that's the kind of thing we used to be treated to at lunchtimes!






He was the quiet, daydreaming one in the back of the class - and then I understood why he was daydreaming! 

Anyway, isn't music great! And I can't believe it's taken me this long to get back to that PM, but it's been a very crazy year. Thanks again for bringing it to my attention!


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## CopperLove

@carshon I’ve learned a LOT of lessons about not looking down :lol: That last trail ride we went on, the last little bank I slid down on Hoss to get back to the road I was sure was going to do me in because there was nowhere to look BUT down over his neck toward the road. But at that point, there was no turning around to be done so it was much too late to worry about it. KL said I was only talking to God a little :rofl:

I hope that your replacement goes well, I’ve heard that if you do what you need to in physical therapy, and I’m sure that someone like you will, that the pain relief in the end is well worth it. Like horses, look where you want to go! :smile:
@SueC I’m very pleased you enjoyed it, thank you  I’ve never really had any professional practice, I only sang in church as a child and young adult. From grade school up through my last year of high school I played trumpet, and while that used to seem unrelated in my head I think it did teach me how to breathe and a lot about listening for tuning. Other than that… just lots of singing in the car :lol:

The recording process was interesting. Because Andrew took classes there and works with some of the instructors still, we got to use the recording studio in a local center for traditional music. Singing into a high-quality recording microphone like that is great, you don’t have to strain to make your low notes as loud as the rest, you can just breathe into it and the microphone picks it up.

That musician is amazing! A didgeridoo is an instrument I’ve never had the opportunity to see in person. 

I’ve shared the video with Andrew as well, I thought it was the kind of thing he’d be fascinated with. He’s also a daydreamer and comes up with the most whimsical things, and I guess that’s why he’s so good at what he does. I walked into the coffee shop one day after work, and he told me that I was “Dressed like a schoolteacher… but one that should be teaching small woodland animals.” What? :rofl:

I’d never really thought about how nice it is, for this stage of my life, to still be living in a college town where there are so many local musicians. We even have square-dances at the Arts Center sometimes :lol:

Glad you enjoyed listening! :smile:


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## SueC

What were you singing in church, @CopperLove? Did you have a choir? ...it makes sense that playing a brass or woodwind would teach you to breathe. Apparently a didgeridoo requires circular breathing. I've got one in the room but neither of us can play it, we just make pitiful fart noises when we try! But here's an Irish musician who came here and picked up didgeridoo:






By the way, he's an excellent singer... this was him with a contemporary band in the 1990s; nowadays he's back to his folk roots and doing that beautifully too... but this was a breathtaking song...






I'm getting more familiar with the Woodsheep album because it's perfect for outdoors work - and picking up some of the technical stuff as I go. There's a song where you are doing both melody and harmony - that must have been really interesting to record! I've got another example of someone doing that in my collection which is just at the back of my head but hasn't quite surfaced, but when it does, I'll tell you what it is...

I just love harmonising, and you're harmonising so beautifully with Andrew. The voices just fit. Sort of like when Kate Pierson and Iggy Pop harmonise - totally different genre, of course, but if you listen to this song - I'm not a particular Iggy Pop fan, but when Kate Pierson starts to sing on this I always get goosebumps, she's so good, and then the harmonising starts and it's just excellent.






I really like the style of harmonising you're doing in that tradition. Also you're one of the few women who can sing a vibrato I like - when most opera singers do it, I find it really unpleasant, like it's going to shatter something. The singing tradition you're doing seems really relaxed compared to that, and just in general!

OMG, now my brain is going off on harmonies... do you know these songs?











I really like _The Wind And Rain_ and _Nottamun Town_ and lots of other stuff too, I'll have to come back when I'm more awake and I've just come off listening to the album!  And it's so funny how so much of it is about courting, unrequited love, tragic love etc etc...

I'm sorry I posted so many clips... when I hear music that's new to me, it trips open so, so many drawers and compartments in my brain that have songs that relate back to what I'm hearing...


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## CopperLove

@SueC We didn’t have a choir at the church I attended when I was younger. We sang as a congregation and then had “specials,” so I would sing with my mother and with her friends who played guitar or piano, and then later by myself. Bluegrass, Gospel, and Folk music tend to be somewhat tied together in this area in a traditional sense, which is kind of funny because when my mom was young, her parents thought "folk" music was nonsense, and probably the devil, without ever realizing they all came from similar roots.

There actually aren’t any songs on the album where I sing multiple parts, although I think that would be loads of fun to record! The other female voice is Missy, a permanent Woodsheep band member. Her voice is higher than mine, the two of us sing together on Greenwood Sidey, Kitty Alone, and Free Little Bird. I think there might be a couple of other songs where the male voices are singing and we’ve both been recorded for harmony in the background.

There is a name for when two people harmonize together in a way that makes you wonder if it’s actually the same person doing both, and I never knew this until I started working with Andrew. It’s called brother harmony or sister harmony.

She sings Nottamun Town and I love how eerie it is; she plays upright bass and harpsichord on the album as well, and she can whistle like a bird and make it look effortless. When we did our live performance locally for the album release, she couldn’t attend for family reasons, and Andrew handed me the lyrics to one of her songs, Fly Around, and said, “You could sing this right? Sure you can!” and so I sang it for the first time in my life without practicing, in front of a live audience :rofl:

When I showed Andrew the video of your student he said it made him want a didgeridoo :lol: That Irish artist does have a great voice (fun fact… with videos pulled up on a forum like this, I wasn’t aware you can accidentally play multiple videos at once, THAT’S interesting.)

I think I may have heard Beautiful Child before but not In This Heart, they’re both lovely!

I think with older folk music, much of it was probably written about what they knew, or things that taught some kind of lesson, and courting and love were pretty, poetic topics to sing of… but that kind of makes you wonder about songs like Wind and Rain. There are several renditions of that one, and while the bit about making a violin from the dead sister’s body had to have been embellished, I wonder if there really were two sisters somewhere in love with the miller’s son, and the incident was well known in a particular area that the song was written in. And if that’s really the case, just to think about how long her story has lived on…


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## CopperLove

*Back in the Saddle (Tentatively)*

Sunday, with a lot more supervision and help than I thought I would need, I got back in the saddle with Dreama for the first time since the second fall. (Not going to lie, working with her in the round pen and seeing her reaction from the ground to DOGS IN LEAVES has helped our teamwork from the ground but has not improved my confidence about getting back on.) But, I’m thankful to have folks that help me ease back into things when we’ve had a setback.

She is remarkably calm, and I was doing my best to breath and fake some confidence. It’s clear that there is absolutely nothing wrong with this horse, it’s all in my head. She can be sensitive to a rider’s anxiety, so my nerves or lack thereof affect her as well.

The new bit gave me something I’ve never been able to comprehend before. I’ve read a lot and watched numerous videos about how to maintain contact with the horse while riding, and even with all this and ML explaining it to me, I hadn’t felt it for myself. Their horses do just about everything on a loose rein. And the bit with shanks we were previously borrowing was counter-productive to understanding the concept, it had too much leverage and caused a lot of miscommunication.

With the kimberwicke, I can feel and follow her motion with my hands, with gentle contact, without accidentally giving a signal I don’t mean. She backs much easier, which has never been her favorite thing to do. I could definitely feel what ML mentioned before, that it is potentially easier for her to “pull through” this bit. But there was no head-tossing or frustration when being asked to stop or turn during our session Sunday, at all. I think it is helping her relax more.

*Here’s a funny:*

I never really understood stories about people getting clothing caught up on the saddle horn... until Sunday.

Part of our exercise was getting on, riding and standing a while, getting off and doing more ground work, repeat.

The last time I came down off the saddle I slid down and got the horn stuck between buttons under my winter coat. I felt myself snag and just kind of stayed there, one arm still over her right side, trying to get my coat undone with my left hand, both feet dangling over her left side.

I had a moment of surprisingly calm, composed thought. Maybe I can let go and fall down and it will rip the button loose and I'll be free... or maybe it will break the button and just slide up to the next and here I'll be, stuck to this horse with the saddle turning down her side.
So finally I just said, "I'm stuck." ML couldn't get me loose with one hand on Dreama's lead and he had to LET HER GO completely to grab my leg and push me back up over the saddle so he could pull my coat off the horn.
And she actually stood still! :rofl: She got treats and lots of scratches for that one. She's all like, me? Run away? I never!


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## carshon

I think a lot of women have had that "stuck" moment. I am not a slender or have a flattering womanly form. And have unfortunately flashed my fair share of people as my shirt etc have been caught on the saddle horn.

And a funny (now) not so funny then moment happened on my very spoiled, very loved A**hole gelding. Steve (the gelding) liked to buck when he was frustrated, happy, falling behind, too far ahead, had to fart - you get the idea. Not hard bronc bucks but a buck enough to pitch you forward in the saddle. On a trail ride with about 8 other people we were going down a smallish hill. Steve was upset at the pace going down the hill so he bucked- just enough to shoot me forward in the saddle. The combination of going downhill and the buck somehow got my shirt over the saddle horn with my right arm under the shirt so for a very short moment it felt like my hand and forearm were tied down (and I was holding the reins with that hand) so to get undone I let go of the reins removed my hand and then shirt and we moved on. My daughter who was about 11 at the time thought this was the funniest thing in the world! She regularly rode behind Steve and I and saw all of his antics - including a squirrel fall out of a tree onto Steve's shoulder and then slide down his leg onto the ground and run away. 

Glad that you got on and rode and the bit worked well for you (I also have a Kimberwick that I use occasionally) and that the saddle horn incident proved to be a non-incident.


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## CopperLove

@carshon The description of Steve's reasons for bucking :rofl:

Another HF member who I also have on facebook told me a story about getting her belt hung on the horn because the belt was too loose, and getting her shirt hung as well...

I've seen stories about ladies getting a bra-strap hung on the saddle horn and thought, pffft that never happens... I know now that I'm wrong because it seems like anything is possible on horseback.

I can't even imagine what Dreama would do if a squirrel ran down her leg


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## CopperLove

I’ve been on Dreama in small increments in the round-pen, each time a little better but very short sessions. I’m trying to build back up in tiny but positive steps. Right now, every time I can get on, stay calm for a while, not fall off, is a good step. Strangely enough (and I might feel completely different once I’m actually back in this situation) I really wish we could go on another long trail ride. I think she’s tired of the round pen. I get tired of the round pen, my nerves get wound tight going in circles when stuff starts happening outside the round pen (kids, dogs, etc.) whereas, on the trail with other horses before and behind, I feel like we can keep moving forward and be ok.

There hasn’t been much time for trail rides recently because ML and KL were trying to finish up fencing on another part of their property while she was home from work for the holidays. I got to see the playground area ML has built by hand for the kids and it’s pretty cool, the stuff he’s done to repurpose tree trunks from some thinner trees that needed to come down off the trails.

ML has been having to work on KL’s mare, Lilly, because of some bucking sprees she’s taken. Trying to figure out if it’s physical, just an attitude thing, etc. Lilly is the BOSS of the group. The lead mare. She’s a big horse for a mustang, strong and confident and she knows it. With the arrival of the baby, not being worked with as much by KL, and with ML working with Dreama, I think it was a lack of work because she is starting to line back out without veterinary intervention.

So KL is working with her own mare more now and we decided to ride in the round pen together Sunday. I found out something very important and a little unnerving. BOTH of them want to be in front. Which is really counterproductive when riding in circles. All of that lazy and relaxed Dreama in the round pen was out the door in favor of trying to push in front of Lilly. Two or three times I turned her around to go back behind Lilly… and she would turn where I was telling her but TROT instead of walking as asked. Only to try to pass Lilly again a moment later. I ended up eventually bringing her to a stop and getting off. The two pros to this session were that she stood perfectly for me to get on, and perfect for me to get off. She was a little prancey but as soon as she felt my weight shift to come off she stood still. So at least there’s that. Maybe NOT the best idea to have the two horses that want to argue about being in front riding in a small area together.

Dreama likes to be in front on a trail, and ML has been riding her in front. She thinks she HAS to be in front of those other horses. I’m not a lead rider but I’m starting to think it might be better and safer, for now, to get used to riding in front instead of fighting her to keep her from crowding other horses from behind. I want to see how she behaves with more space before making too many judgments on that.


The worst thing about being with someone who is an alcoholic or addict who is attempting recovery is that there may be long periods of time where everything seems ok. You’re happy. It appears that they’re happy. They’re trying – they are, because if they weren’t there would be no reprieve from the misery.

Some friends tell you that you should leave. Some friends tell you you’re strong and that you can work through it, but that you’ll “know in your heart” if it’s time to let go.

But in the end, it’s my decision to make and I don’t know if I’ll ever “know”.

Standing in the present, it’s impossible to know if you’re the ones who make it or the ones that fall apart. What you do know, without a doubt, is that the ultimate end of telling your partner to leave is that they die. You don’t know the exact details, you may even know that none of that is your responsibility. But you still know that’s where the road ends and that makes every decision a hard one.

Then you make your decisions in the moment, wake up sore-eyed, emotionally and physically exhausted next day and go to work anyway and no one can know that you’ve just kissed your dreams goodbye, not even your partner because they have their own healing to go about doing and the consequences if they break down again are a lot heavier than yours.

Last week I dreamed I was drinking whiskey.

I’ve never had whiskey in my life. I’ve never been drunk. I’ve never dreamed about drinking.

Sunday before I went to the ranch, before Dreama and Lilly had their disagreements, I woke up and found my partner on the couch with all his clothes on including shoes and I knew it was bad. I knew when I woke him up and he said everything was fine that he was lying and everything was, in fact, awful.

I went out and found the evidence in his car. Something weaker than usual, and not enough in his system nor for long enough to cause withdrawals. I also found a substance that I didn’t know anything about, that I read about to find out it’s not a controlled substance in the US yet but probably should be. I suggested he pack his things. Then I said not to. Because I know where that ends. But I also know I wouldn’t tell anyone else in the world to do what I’ve done.


I know the new work schedule has been detrimental. When his company switched shifts around, it placed our schedules directly opposite each other and we never see each other in waking hours until the weekend. The AA meetings he does manage to go to aren’t the personal group meetings, the only one available on a day he has off is a massive group meeting where they just have a guest speaker every time, and it’s mostly full of individuals who are only going because they’ve been court-ordered to.

I suggested since it couldn’t possibly make things any worse that he try to get on first shift so our schedules would be more similar and he wouldn’t just be at work or at home alone every moment of his life. He seemed surprised when I suggested he should look into real therapy for mental health. (I thought counseling at the hospital was therapy but it’s not really, in the way I thought it would be.) There is so much shame wrapped up in the current problems and whatever happened to him when he was younger that I feel like he needs more than just people to talk with about addiction. I think he needs someone who is professionally equipped to help him cope with the things that are so bad he feels like he can’t talk with me about them.

In the end all of that is, of course, his decision to pursue. As much as a desperately want to help, there is only so much support I can provide.

KL and ML have experienced similar issues in their lives. I was open with them Sunday when I visited about what I was facing. Mainly because they were so enthusiastic about us maybe starting to hunt for our own home and property to own and were keeping an eye out for me for unlisted mini-farm type properties. Now there will be no house hunting.

One of the big reasons they moved to KY, why ML has poured his entire being into their ranch, and horses, and children, is because he’s a recovered or recovering addict. He’s very open about the fact he went to prison and realized he was ruining his life and that he couldn’t let the things that happened to him when he was a child control and ruin the rest of his life.

What I didn’t know is that one of the reasons KL’s eldest moved back in with them and just found a place of his own to rent here is because he also has struggled with addiction and is hoping to remove himself from his home-town and previous situations and start new... Just like my partner.

It’s everywhere and it’s heartbreaking. Despite everything you know and everything you’ve been told, it’s still hard when you’re in the middle of it to understand when it’s time to hang on and when it’s time to walk away.

I’ve said quite seriously before that if I wasn’t with my partner, I’d find someplace to park a camper and live for a while to save money, live minimally, and pay off debt until I was ready to buy a place. KL and ML actually did that for a while. When we talked about what was happening, they’re in the camp of people who know what’s going on who think he can make it but also wisely suggested I take things one day at a time but suggested if I did ever want to try the camper idea I could continue to pay board for Dreama, pay for part of the electric bill for hookup and park on their place and be able to hang out with the horses and hike in the woods all the time.

No one hopes it comes to that, but it was a genuine offer. They have really become so much more than just a place where I board my horse and I don’t think I have the right words to express how grateful I am for that.

My current personal plan is to just keep living and enjoying the things I want to make time for this year, saving as much money as possible. With my current debt-to-income ratio with my student loans, I don’t think there’s really a chance of me purchasing a place by myself right now even by the end of the year (although I haven’t looked into that. All previous plans were based on the partner and I together.) I want to read more, actually go camping, and go hiking a lot more this year. If the partner can get his schedule changed, I’ll be bringing him along as much as possible. If having other goals and physical activity to focus on helped ML, my hope is that maybe it will help him too. If he continues to regress, then I have to try my best to understand when it’s time to let go.

Easy to say, a lot more difficult to do. I feel extremely sad today knowing that I will always have somewhere to go, I will always go on, but I wish I wasn’t having to think about the possibility of going on without the person I want to go with me.


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## carshon

What a profound post. I am sorry that you have had to look so deep inside yourself to find those answers. My husband is not an addict but suffers from depression. Sometimes very severe depression. And from what you describe it sounds like some of the symptoms are similar. It almost ended our marriage early on - and we had a child less than a year old at the time. It took very intensive counseling to help him - but first he had to come to that place where he wanted help. I think for addicts and those that suffer from mental illness that the turning point is only when that person wants help and is committed to making themselves healthy. 

So very glad that you have ML and KL there for you. I know my journey with my husband was lonely and trying and would have made my burden less if I had someone that understood.


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## knightrider

> Standing in the present, it’s impossible to know if you’re the ones who make it or the ones that fall apart. What you do know, without a doubt, is that the ultimate end of telling your partner to leave is that they die. You don’t know the exact details, you may even know that none of that is your responsibility. But you still know that’s where the road ends and that makes every decision a hard one.


This is exactly where I have been, and at times still am, with a family member. My heart aches for you. I have suggested before that you find an Al Anon group. Al Anon is not AA. Al Anon is for family members and friends of alcoholics who are dealing with the exact quote above. They will not give you any advice. They know very well that only the person dealing with the problem can decide what to do. But they are a tremendous source of support. You are never alone. They are a group of wonderful loving generous kind people. Al Anon has helped me tremendously and I am walking down the road you are walking right now.


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## CopperLove

@carshon It is good to hear that your husband was able to get help when he decided he wanted it. I sincerely believe that untreated anxiety and depression play a part in my partner's problems. I know that some really bad stuff happened when he was a child, including losing his father to suicide, and his mother suffers from anxiety as well so he is likely already genetically inclined toward certain issues even without addiction on top of that. But I think now there is so much shame wrapped up in things he did and saw when he was a young adult and addicted to more than just alcohol... He was honest with me when we met and told me that had been part of his past, but at the time I truly didn't understand how that comes creeping back on a person. I didn't really understand how it's a part of you forever, whether you are coping with it or not. I have always been blessed to be healthy, and sheltered, and safe, and he hasn't.

I know that doctors in our home town were warry of treating him with any kind of medication because of his past substance abuse. Part of it got better when he moved here with me... He has changed so much just by moving to a different town with more work opportunities, getting away from certain people and engaging in more healthy activities. He's become more out-going, it's easier for him to talk to people, he's not as anxious in a crowd and I've learned to better read when we're in a situation in public and his anxiety level is creeping up. He's on a mild anti-depressant now that was prescribed to help with anxiety and he says he really feels like it has improved how he feels.

But the counseling, I always knew an addict had to want help before they could go anywhere (nevermind the fact that sometimes professional help can be really difficult to get for people in certain situations), but I didn't realize before how much it matters even with mental health that they have to come to that place and want it. I was stunned when I suggested a different kind of counseling/therapy and he asked... "You mean like a psychiatrist?" like that was something to be ashamed of? It's as if he associates that with being "crazy" or weak and I'm just thinking, how much lower can you get before you think there might be a better way?
@knightrider A friend of mine on Facebook just made a post a few days ago about Al-Anon and how much it helped her cope with what she went through with an alcoholic family member. When you suggested it, and even when she posted about it, for some reason I didn't understand that it is a separate group. I've been to AA meetings before and never found an understanding there for me. I will definitely look for an Al Anon group here, I really appreciate the advice... it has come to the point I've stopped sharing with my family, and with his family, because I'm tired and scared of the advice.


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## whisperbaby22

Can't offer any advice because we all walk different paths. Keep up with your love of horses, no matter where it takes you. For those of us who need horses and everything it brings to life, it is well worth the effort.


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## CopperLove

@whisperbaby22 Thank you. You're right, I think anything that brings someone joy is something that you need to keep up with in difficult times. Dreama is the last thing right now that I'd give up on.


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## CopperLove

The progression of "standing still" is getting better and better. I completely mounted and dismounted twice on this last practice ride without anyone inside the round pen to assist and hold her for me for the first time since my second fall. We did a few rounds and some tighter turns, backing up, stopping and standing still. She was very relaxed on this day. Her young mustang friend who typically follows her everywhere was tied just outside the pen after her practice with her young human which also went well. I'm really glad that Dreama has been of some use to the barn owners after all they've done for us. As the younger mare gains experience, since she is so attached to Dreama they sometimes use Dreama to guide her through "scary" things. For example, the opening gate she thought was going to eat her on this day. :lol:

It's been fun getting to see their horse's progression. I've never been around a young horse in training. Her panic can be BIG because she likes her people but some things are still frightening. She'll often be tied next to Dreama while we're tacking up. As I groom Dreama, she wants to put her soft nose over my shoulder to see what I'm doing. I'll offer her the brush to smell and then brush on her once she's looked at it. She's still young and babyish, but soooo sweet and curious. It's fun to be able to interact with her because, while Dreama has become a much more agreeable horse, she's never really been the kind to really seek out a lot of scratches and attention (unless treats are involved or you are threatening to give all your attention to another animal.) But this little mare loves attention and scratches.



Dreama will stand still enough without having hands on her now that I was able to back away and snap a couple of new photos this time.

Everyone (everyone being ML and KL and my mother) always talk about what a long horse she is. I don't know that I've ever gotten a half-decent photo of her with her saddle on until now, but this shot made me go.... "Oh, she is a rather long-looking horse comparatively isn't she?" :rofl:

This isn't a good enough photo to go into a real saddle fitting discussion but I might make a thread later to talk about it... I've noticed that even on flat ground, her saddle is starting to slide back by the end of the ride, even at a walk. It never used to do this. Not even going up and down the hills. Now there better be a breast collar on it or you can forget about taking a big hill without the saddle sliding down her back. The other day, Facebook showed me an add for girths in various shapes and had some images trying to market specific shapes of girth to specific body-types of horses and I saved the image of the one that I thought described her body-type best. I thought it might be helpful for a later conversation.

From earlier photos to this one, you can tell that she has relaxed A LOT and I wonder if that has anything to do with how the saddle is fitting. Looking around on HF I've read some about horses that have a natural, relaxed head position (whatever that is for them depending on the breed, fitness level, and work they do) not hollowing their backs as much. She was never under or overweight when I got her, but she wasn't being exercised or ridden either and now she has definitely gained some muscle and her body shape has changed some. OR... this is an older, synthetic saddle, Bighorn brand. I am wondering with more consistent use if the saddle might not be wearing out too?



I just thought this was a cute photo of her. It makes me happy and I look at it every day as my phone background now.


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## SueC

As a horse's back changes shape when it gets more muscles on it, the saddle fit may change too. Which reminds me, my saddle is due for an adjustment - unfortunately my old saddle fitter, who adjusted the fit when the saddle was new, is no longer in the business, which is unfortunate because she was excellent - but isn't this always how it goes?

Lovely photos! Did you know that if you looks at the "lengths" of geldings, stallions and mares, the stallions tend to be "square" if you draw a box around them from the shoulders back around their bodies, the geldings (early gelded) tend to be upright rectangles, and the mares tend to be long-ways rectangles? That fascinated me when I saw it pointed out in a horse book, with boxes drawn around horses, as a kid.


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## carshon

In that last photo I would say your saddle is too far forward and sitting directly on top of her shoulder blades. This will cause the saddle to slide back. The concho on the front of the saddle with your latigo keeper on it should be behind her shoulder blade as she is standing there. 

We have a very long Walking horse - as in she has a very long back. as opposed to the other 2 walking horses we have that have relatively short backs. Saddle positioning is different for all of our horses


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## SueC

PS: I still have some catching up to do with your journal and also to get back to the music!  Thank you for your insightful posts into living with someone struggling with addiction. I really hope he makes it, and that you both make it. I'm not sure if it is any use to you, but here's where I have explained at length my own journey with complex PTSD:

Music For Emotional Health

I tried to show how insidious the influence of a traumatic childhood can be, and how healing music and the arts can be in that process (and were for me - music and writing, initially in big annual journals from the time I was 14, were really a form of therapy, when I look back on it).

Maybe it will help your partner. He too probably has a Great Wall Of China. Addiction numbs the pain, but hinders processing of the trauma. I was very lucky never to have a substance addiction and I also wrote about why I think that was, but many people in that situation do struggle with addiction.

Lots of love to you. :hug:


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## CopperLove

SueC said:


> As a horse's back changes shape when it gets more muscles on it, the saddle fit may change too. Which reminds me, my saddle is due for an adjustment - unfortunately my old saddle fitter, who adjusted the fit when the saddle was new, is no longer in the business, which is unfortunate because she was excellent - but isn't this always how it goes?
> 
> Lovely photos! Did you know that if you looks at the "lengths" of geldings, stallions and mares, the stallions tend to be "square" if you draw a box around them from the shoulders back around their bodies, the geldings (early gelded) tend to be upright rectangles, and the mares tend to be long-ways rectangles? That fascinated me when I saw it pointed out in a horse book, with boxes drawn around horses, as a kid.


It's scary that's how it goes! I don't have any experience with a saddle fitter, but I dread the day, hopefully far in the future, when ML isn't around to do our farrier work. I've seen so many horror stories of people finding a good farrier, and while I don't know much about that at all I do know that Dreama and their horses always seem sound. There was even their quarter horse when I first started visiting that someone had given them and had trouble with her feet, and he did some kind of corrective work on her until she was sound again. The thought of ever having to let someone else mess with my horse's feet after having someone who seems to be doing a good job makes me nervous!



carshon said:


> In that last photo I would say your saddle is too far forward and sitting directly on top of her shoulder blades. This will cause the saddle to slide back. The concho on the front of the saddle with your latigo keeper on it should be behind her shoulder blade as she is standing there.


I have thought before myself when putting her saddle on that it seems so far forward in comparison to her shoulders. But if I start with it farther back the girth just doesn't seem to be in the right place, instead of looking perfectly vertical up her side, it seems like it's slanted. However, the girth never slides back over her ribs into the "wrong place" even when the saddle slides back. Does this mean that the saddle could potentially fit but I'm just placing it wrong? Or does it mean that I need a different design of saddle on which the girth sits differently?


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## SueC

It's probably best if you get a person who's got some experience with saddle fitting to look at that in person with you, @CopperLove. I don't think that the girth is always exactly perpendicular to the saddle, it depends on the shape of your horse, and also the saddle and type of girth. You could play with different girths, but probably the girth not being perpendicular isn't as much of an issue as a saddle being too far forward. Photos might help. As might someone who's familiar with what Western saddle fits should look like, and I have no experience at all in that...

PS: Just in addition to the link I provided above, here's a different place where I was specifically looking at the topic of addiction (and not just to substances): Exploring "Join The Dots" - Page 3


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## CopperLove

@SueC I was browsing for saddle fitters last night and while there are some available in some cities around KY, it seems there's a wide birth around my particular area. :-? However, I did have another thought this morning: I might be able to contact the local university. They have an equestrian program and house many horses on the campus farm, so they must have somebody who, if not a professional saddle fitter, is experienced in trying to fit all kinds of horses for propper saddles. Or maybe they could point me to whoever they use if they outsource a saddle fitter.

I also haven't specifically brought this issue up with the barn owners... KL is constantly trying to move the saddle forward, I suspect because of her experience with how her saddles have fit on her own horses. ML has trained a variety of kinds of horses though and he's said the saddle is fine, but I wonder if maybe that's because he doesn't want me to feel like I have to go out and purchase all kinds of new equipment with the relatively small amount I'm currently riding. He has mentioned before that if the saddle isn't sliding WAY back, and it's ending up in the same place every time, that it may just be where the saddle is meant to fit on the shape of her back. He might have some better tips if I really opened the discussion with him. But, as good as they've been for us, they are still a bit old-school when it comes to certain things, so he may really just think that as long as a saddle doesn't appear to be making a horse sore that it's ok.

I do need to take better photos before seeking more advice on HF, I think I'll do that the next time I get a chance out in daylight. I hate that it's already getting dark this time of year when I go to visit after work. This photo and a thread from another member recently seeking saddle fitting advice is what got me thinking about it.

One thing I have noticed that seems to have gotten worse over time rather than better, is the saddle trying to turn down her side while I'm trying to mount no matter how tight the cinch is or where the saddle is situated. I know a big part of that has to do with my unbalance, accidentally pulling on the saddle when I shouldn't, etc. But it got better for a long time as I practiced and mounted/unmounted and rode more. And now it seems like I'm regressing with this, and I can't tell if I'm doing something different now or if it has to do with a change in how the saddle fits, or maybe even that I'm out of practice because I've been doing a lot of ground-work instead of riding.

I NEVER twist the saddle down Hoss's side if I'm riding him, but that's also different saddle that's a lot heavier and he's a shorter horse.

If I'm outside and can stand her downhill from me it helps, but if I'm inside the barn on flat concrete I can hardly make it at all. For example, last night after I left work, I went out and saddled her and wanted to adjust and test the stirrup length, because I've been riding with the stirrups pretty short and suspected I could go down a notch. Even with the stirrups lengthened I still had trouble getting on. (It didn't help that she was suddenly very DONE because we usually don't saddle-up after dinner and it was likely very unusual for her that someone was trying to get on her back while she was still tied.)

I have no problem mounting from a block, but we typically don't do that because we solely trail ride and there's not always going to be something to stand on if I have to dismount in the middle of a trail and then get back on (although thankfully with our landscape, there usually is a way to stand her down-hill from me a bit.)

Anyway, it just leaves me wondering, is it ALL something I'm doing wrong? I am a very ungraceful human even with non-horse related things, even when I was at my healthiest and fittest in highschool from gym and marching band I've always been a bit physically awkward and that certainly hasn't gotten any better over time. OR is it partially the condition of the saddle? Older, synthetic, poorly fitting, potentially wearing out etc. Sigh. So many questions.

I also meant to tell you when you talked about the shape of stallions vs. geldings vs. mares that I had not heard that! But it makes sense. A friend of mine is a dog groomer and interested in breeding lines and shows, and she told me that if you're going to neuter a male dog that you're going to show, you typically do it a bit later in life than you would the average pet because it affects the way their growth plates close or something like that. Obviously would also affect hormone levels as well.

Thank you for your links :hug: I read through the first post in the one about music yesterday. I'll have to show my partner this weekend. He put in for a shift change but there's no telling when that might actually go through so we still aren't seeing each other through the week at all, and we had a bad argument about the shift change in-particular, mainly because we were trying to communicate via text because we can't communicate like a normal couple during the week.

I was ALL over horse forum yesterday evening after being absent for a while... it was a WILD day at work, with much wailing and gnashing of teeth, I think someone may have quit... we also had a lockdown at one of our campuses. By the end of the day I'd marked everything that urgently needed done off my list and my brain was just finished for the day.


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## carshon

Walking horses can be hard to fit. And the concho must always be behind the scapula. A saddle fitter will tell you to put the saddle on your horse without a pad and wiggle it back off of the wither/shoulder until it settles itself into the "sweet" spot. My mare is susceptible to girth galls. her girth does not ride perpendicular to the rigging on her saddle. Many walking horse riders will use a A form rigging on their saddles. My mare has a high wither but a huge rib cage (or barrel) and her wither is high but her back is broad and flat. Saddle fit and comfort was hard to find!


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## CopperLove

@carshon I think that "sweet" spot may be what ML meant when he was talking about the saddle settling into the same spot on her back every time it slides. Which I know still doesn't necessarily mean the saddle fits well. When I take more photos I'll try to make sure it's situated where it naturally settles on her back instead of where I've been placing it at the start of a ride. I'm very unfamiliar with different types of saddle rigging, I just did a google search. I've only ever ridden with people who do it one way. Is an A form rigging something like this? https://www.kudastore.com/blogs/news/3-point-or-v-saddle-rigging-instructions

This is the image from the add I was talking about that was recommending different girth shapes for different shapes of horses. Obviously, they are trying to sell a product but their description for The Athletico Girth caught my eye. Not because I think a girth alone would fix an issue, but the way it described the horse's body shape and saddle sliding, I thought it even looked a bit like Dreama's picture standing there. (Please ignore the "THIS CAT IS CHONKY" post directly below, this was a screenshot off of Facebook :rofl


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## CopperLove

These were my poor attempts at saddle-fit photos. I think I'm going to have to figure out how to get better photos before I could reasonably ask for any advice on the matter on the forum. I took angles I've seen others take when asking for saddle fit but then realized a lot of what I've seen is for english style saddles and how is anyone supposed to see or tell anything with this saddle skirt?  I'm going to need to watch more videos on this I think, similarly to when I was learning about bits.

And every single photo I tried to take from the front looks awful with me trying to hold her mane out of the way. Maybe I need to stand on a step? From the one accidental close up I took (the last photo) the one thing I feel like is there's not a lot of clearance in there but... I'm not sure if there needs to be?

I did wiggle the saddle so that it was sitting where it normally slides back to. We rode just a short while in the round pen on this day and I tried leaving the saddle sitting farther back, you can see the imprint on her fuzzy-wuzzy coat where her saddle bad was laying.

 

 



And like any good horse, she immediately pooped as soon as I brought her in the barn and then stepped in it. :icon_rolleyes:

I also can't get over how regal I normally think she looks in photos but here she looks more like a scrubby little pony :rofl: I'm very glad she's grown in a real winter coat though. At the beginning of winter we thought she was going to have to have a blanket, which barn owners would have helped me pick one that fit since I've never had to shop for one before. She wasn't really growing a suitable coat but now she's as fuzzy as the other horses. On the very cold nights they all come in. She looked positively offended last night that the water in her bucket in the barn was frozen even after I broke it.


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## carshon

The saddle looks far better in these pictures. And looks to be sitting in the correct spot. It also seems to fit her pretty well. I would not use too thick of a pad because this saddle looks about right now and too thick of a pad may make it tighter on her shoulders. And your link to the rigging is correct, some call it a 3 point rigging. If you look at your photos above your girth strap will hand close to her girth groove. Your saddle should sit here when you tack up to ride.


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## CopperLove

*You can see the imprint where her saddle PAD was laying* is what I meant, not "bad."
@carshon I'm glad to hear it looks more correct here. I tried to make sure the concho was behind her shoulder this time. It has always felt better on her than it does when we put it on Hoss a couple of times. On Hoss I could just tell it didn't fit by the way it felt when we walked. It felt almost like I was rocking rather than settled in rhythm in a comfortable place on his back especially when we went down-hill. When I ride him I always use ML's saddle now, since it was pretty clear it wasn't an option to ride and practice in my own saddle with him. I'm sure I'm a comical sight in that saddle although I've never seen a photo of myself in it. The seat is comfortable but it's a heavy saddle that also has his rope hung on the side in case there's ever a need to pony a horse back home, and a scabbard attached for a small hand-saw for any vines or small downed trees on trial rides. There are tapaderos on the stirrups which are fantastic for not having anything accidentally run through the stirrup, and not accidentally shoving a foot too far into the stirrup, but they feel very heavy and stiff and I can barely make contact at all with the sides of the horse, not that Hoss cares at all. He's the kind of horse that can perform more precisely for a more skilled rider, or he can carry a child or absolute beginner and just follow the group.

On Dreama, when I do manage to ride, my saddle feels snug and smooth. But like so many things as a beginner I know that "feeling" alone isn't always right... would be great if it was in this case though. If this saddle really fits, when I'm ready to replace it, it would be easier because I could look for another bighorn of a similar style.


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## SueC

I'm glad there's people who can help you with Western saddle fit (not me, I've never ridden in one etc, living in other cultures)! I don't know what you thought was wrong with the photos, they looked pretty clear to me. 

Me, I'm going to give that Appalachian album another listen this morning in the vegetable garden - it will time my required effort perfectly, as well as give it some oomph - and I will have another opportunity to attempt to tell the two voices apart. :hide:


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## CopperLove

SueC said:


> I'm glad there's people who can help you with Western saddle fit (not me, I've never ridden in one etc, living in other cultures)! I don't know what you thought was wrong with the photos, they looked pretty clear to me.


I dunno, I guess saddle photos of english and some other styles of saddles have always looked so clear to me because it seems like you can see so much about how they're touching a horse's back, and when I took these and looked at them I thought... how is a viewer supposed to tell anything from this with the saddle skirt covering everything up? I was also feeling a bit ridiculous trying to get the photos of the front over her neck. I'm not particularly short and she's definitely not a bigger than usual horse, but she makes me feel short sometimes. :lol:

I also didn't mention the voices to shame you :rofl: I just didn't want to take credit for all Melissa's lovely work as well :lol:


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## SueC

CopperLove said:


> I also didn't mention the voices to shame you :rofl: I just didn't want to take credit for all Melissa's lovely work as well :lol:


No, I know that!  :hug: It's just, I might have embarrassed you, plus _you_ obviously can tell your voices apart and it probably seems odd that I couldn't - it actually seems odd to me too. Last year, my husband and I started needing reading glasses (in reality, we probably needed them two years earlier but were in denial and got a lot of eye strain :rofl and perhaps it is time to make enquiries about hearing aids too. :Angel:


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## CopperLove

@SueC I don't think it's that odd, some people have a variety of "voices" when they sing. There are some people I have problems telling apart in music, and I very often have to look up the lyrics to a song and read them as I listen once before I really understand everything the singer is saying.

When I first listened to "Lord Huron" I was almost 100% positive it was the same man singing melody and harmony. I know nothing about the band, only that I like one of their albums, and the album itself sounds like it may have been the theme to a movie or TV show or something. It was Andrew who listened and pointed out to me that it might not be only one man recorded, so we got curious and looked it up. I was wrong. It is, in fact, two men singing and not one :lol:

I have a hard time picking out which line in this one is harmony and which is melody. (This is also the song I consider to be "Dreama's song" for whatever reason. Obviously it's not a horse song but it reminded me of her personality from the first time I heard it.)


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## CopperLove

*Time-off, Play, House Blues*

Dreama cut her leg Saturday. It was immediately cleaned, medicated, wrapped and she's doing fine, but Sunday when I went to visit she had spent the night in the barn and was not thrilled about it.

She still got to go out and stand with her friends by the barn for a while. Sunday is always "horse day". They take all the horses out to the tie posts in front of the barn, groom, sometimes tack up even if no one is going to ride, just to keep a routine. I have tried to time my visits so that I can do her grooming and be able to work with her during daylight hours. I think it has helped teach Dreama a lot about relaxing and standing still. She gets to see how the other horses react to just standing still, nobody throws a fit, and then they go back out together and nothing bad has happened and sometimes they don't even have to do any work!

I brought her in to brush her and she was in an unusually friendly mood. She was nudging me but not too hard, wanting her head and face scratched. She's not usually a "please pet me" kind of horse.

Bribery.

She knows that when I come early enough we go out, and she wanted any kind of out she could get after a night in the barn. (I hate to think about what she's going to act like after 4 or 5 days in!)

So I took her out just to walk her in the round pen, but I did put saddle and bridle on because I figured we might as well do some very mild ground-work while we were at it. As SOON as we got in the round pen and shut the gate and I looped the lead rope over the saddle horn, Miss Princess who NEVER wants to get dirty decided that would be a great place to lay down in the sand and have a nice roll with the saddle on. She got down on one side but I managed to get her up before she rolled all the way over on her back and she shared her sand with me with a nice shake.

We walked just a few minutes before I took her back to the barn and took the tack off. I conferred with KL and ML that it was ok to let her roll and be loose in the pen, then took her back out. I took the lead rope off and just let her loose with me.

She didn't want to roll without a saddle to destroy but she did play. I'd run away and she'd follow me, throwing her head and bouncing, before turning and letting me "chase" her back. Then she'd walk back to me and present me with her left side for scratches and praise.

Just to be worthy of PLAY, after going through a time when she was so worried about where those other horses were every time we got away from them, feels pretty good.  

These photos are just from messing around last Monday when my partner came with me because we both had a holiday off (same day I took the saddle-fit photos). I always think she has such expressive "eyebrows".

 



*House Blues*

While I was visiting, KL told me about a property she had found listed that the price had just been dropped on, and that she thought I should check it out. Initially, I wasn't going to, I had already told myself I was going to abandon that thought for this year, but her comment made me curious so today I looked it up on some real estate sites.

It's a cute little (but not too little) house that looks a bit cabin-ish on the outside, and is sitting on a 12 acre lot in the perfect place. It's only a few miles from where I currently rent but far enough back off the main road to make it a nice place to live. Built in 2008, so if it's built well that's not all that old for a house (and also could potentially pass the inspection for certain kinds of homeowner loan programs.) It also has central heating and air which I'll admit I'm a bit spoiled to, it's the only kind of heating/cooling system I've lived with. And it was priced at the point I thought, with my decent credit score and my income that just went up, I might actually be able to get approved for a loan myself without including my partner on the mortgage.

As the saying goes, if it looks too good to be true, it usually is.

I put in a request for info and a real estate agent called me and told me that the seller is currently only accepting cash only offers... It's a foreclosure that the bank is now selling. At a previous auction, they turned down the highest bid which was from someone who had a good enough relationship with their local bank that they were approved for the outright loan, not a traditional mortgage loan. Which sounds like a horrible idea to me, wouldn't the interest rate on something like that be a lot higher than a traditional mortgage payment? That's not something I would be able to do anyway, but it just sounds like a bad idea.

She said she thought it would probably end up selling for less than the current listing price, but also that she was kind of surprised the seller was only accepting cash only because it was in "such good shape for a foreclosure". I feel like there is something wrong with the house; it's a bank that's selling it and they want cash-only offers, that probably means there is something that makes the house unable to pass an inspection. She did save my number and told me if they changed their mind about cash-only offers she would contact me, but that's pretty clearly a sign something is up and even if I did go to look at it and get an inspection for it I'd probably be wasting my time and money to even have it inspected.

It's just something I have to learn to let go of, but letting go of something so big that we already had pretty solid plans for is difficult for me. It sure tore my guts out today. KL meant well by suggesting I look at it, she didn't know that it was a cash-only offer type of deal. And I certainly don't want to tune out her suggestions in the future either because, like everything in life, just the right thing might come along. We do live in a pretty rural area and sometimes the kind of properties I would be interested in go for "cheap" simply because not enough people are interested in them.

Part of me has even wondered, because there are so many benefits to boarding vs. horse keeping at home, and it's going to be so long before I know enough and am ready to take on that full responsibility anyway, should I potentially look at getting pre-approved for a First Time Homeowner or Rural Housing type of loan program and search for a small home with less land attached? That's a mixed bag that has its pros and cons, I know.

Pros are that it would be mine, I would never have to worry about renting with multiple cats, and I know enough that I could keep the house in good shape and maybe even do some simple things myself to up the overall value a bit. I would actually be investing in something that had value rather than spending the money on rent every month, and property prices are still relatively "low" here compared to other states/areas, but because we live in a college town there's just enough interest in living near here that it probably wouldn't be a big problem to sell later down the line. There are also some opportunities coming here soon that may mean more people are looking to live in the area, which would potentially make it easier to sell in the future but harder to compete in the search to purchase a house/land.

A big con is that I know I would still eventually want a bigger property. Not a big house, but more land. And it just feels like it would be a lot easier to move from renting to moving into a home than it would be to buy a house then have to worry about selling it in order to move. But I also know most people don't start out with their "dream" property, lots of people move/sell homes multiple times in their lives.

It's something I've discussed on HF before and turned over in my mind a thousand times. Ya'll are tired of hearing about it but I can't stop weighing the potential outcomes. :icon_rolleyes: It's just a thorn in my side right now.


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## carshon

Banks do odd things with foreclosures. They may have decided the price drop would get them a cash offer and when that does not work will go back to taking traditional loans as payment. 

If you are really not ready don't jump into something. I am not picking on DH but want to say that purchasing a home on your own should be a priority. if he is able to tame his demons and your relationship last then that is just icing on the cake and more money to do things around the property. 

I applaud you for not wanting to rush into bringing Dreama home to your own property right away. Where you board sounds fantastic and you have riding buddies as well as mentors. Use this as long as you can. Once a horse is moved home and you don't have a way to transport it somewhere else - it can get lonely.


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## CopperLove

@carshon Shortly after I posted this, I was discussing it with some friends and one had a very similar point. It's been on the market for close to 100 days now and also is not what would be considered a very fashionable house by current trends. It was re-listed by the bank at the foreclosure cost not very long ago - on the 9th of December. So it's hard to say. I can't say for sure that I wouldn't go take a look at it and try to get pre-qualified and get an inspection done if the bank did go back to accepting a traditional loan. At that point if I couldn't get pre-qualified for the amount needed or if it couldn't pass inspection then at least I'd know it wasn't meant to be.

You are right, at this point I'm not considering having his name on anything. If the right place where to come along that I could manage financially (that is the good thing about the pre-qualification process even though it may seem frustrating, it's supposed to be to make sure you're not in over your head with payments you can't make and I already know that I should go a bit lower than what's approved), then he is still supportive of that; as of now would still be moving with me, paying me for half the mortgage payment like we do with rent right now. That's a very non-traditional arrangement I know, but not much more non-traditional than the current one I suppose. Even if he's able to straighten his life out, I don't know if I could ever be comfortable now with both our names on a piece of property. I always thought before, even as a teenager, I want to purchase a home on my own. Over the past year we started to actually make plans together and I started to get comfortable with the idea. Now I'm back to thinking I had the right idea the first time. As much as I want him to get better and want us to be able to be together, I want the house I live in to be mine. Sometimes, even with the best of intentions, an addict can relapse after years upon years of being clean, and I have to be realistic about that now.

I recently read an article talking about horse owners who prefer to board rather than keep their horses at home, and that was honestly the first time that I ever thought that the end-goal doesn't _have_ to be to bring her 'home', but I figured out quite a while back that I wasn't in any rush to move her even if I did have my own place. One day I'll be ready, but not right now. Maybe not ever with her, could be with other horses in the future. One of the points the article made was about how some riders never reach a point where they are comfortable wanting to ride alone and that that's OK... it's ok to enjoy where you are in your journey, especially if you like the barn you're at. A lot of people said that while having their own horse at home was great, they'd had more time to actually ride when they were boarding because they didn't have to do as much work to their own property - or that last bit might have been something I picked up from a HF thread, can't remember now.

KL and ML's property is out in the middle of nowhere but I have hopes that as new boarders and lesson-takers come, I may even have more people to ride and interact with. They've been working hard on the trails on their property and even cleared the downed trees on the service-access trail we rode last Summer so that it will be ready to ride in the Spring, for us and for others who might want to trailer in for a ride.

I don't think I would really be saving any money at this point even if I had my own place and could keep her at home. I don't think I would have known what to do by myself when she cut her leg but they knew how to clean, bandage, etc. and had all the supplies on hand. I asked them what I owed for meds, bandaging, if there were any other supplies I needed to get and they wouldn't hear of me paying for it; it happened while ML was riding her on a trail but he had my permission to be riding her and it's been doing she and I both a lot of good for her to be ridden more often, and for goodness sake she's walked that trail so many times no one could have _known_ that was going to happen and it certainly would have happened just as easily if I'd been riding her. And if something more serious ever does go wrong, they would have a better guess than me about what was going on and know more about what to tell the vet so the issue could be pinpointed and taken care of faster. And ML provides farrier work which I'd have to replace if I moved away.

Besides. She doesn't see "home" the way I see it. That ranch is home to her. She's got a herd she gets along with that is helping teach her good manners and she's happy there.


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## whisperbaby22

I would suggest you consider keeping looking at real estate. It's really hard to get past the emotional part unless you have fallen in love with a couple of places and put so much time and effort in, only to have it fall apart, that you tend to start looking at buying in a more realistic way. This is a huge move for anyone, and having everything work out is important. I live in California, where real estate tends to really swing. I have only bought property during a down turn. Keeping up with what is going on in your area will really help you, even if it is many years before you actually buy. 

And yes, buy in your name unless you are married.


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## SueC

As people who did move to a place where we could keep our own horses, I also want to tell you that the down side is that we haven't travelled out of our state for 10 years now - ever since we bought the place - and we used to go on regular hiking holidays. We're starting to look around for farmsitters but I've got three ornery ex-racing horses who were all gelded after age 11 and two of which used to be dangerous stallions. I'd only be confident with really experienced horse people attempting to rug and un-rug and feed them, and to know when something was wrong. Also, when you have horses on your own place, you need more than one, or it's not fair on the horse because it is a herd animal. When I had one horse, and agisted, going on holidays was not an issue.

There are up sides to having your horses on the same place as your home, but also down sides. To a young person starting out, I'd recommend agisting for a good while - especially if you can find a spot you are happy with. You can still invest in your own home, but it doesn't have to include space for a horse. Also, at an agistment facility, your chances of riding with others is usually better.


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## CopperLove

@whisperbaby22 It's been hard for me to decide I officially want to go property hunting on my own because I had a friend who was pre-authorized for a first time homeowner type loan, looked at a townhome she loved that was in her budget and passed inspection with flying colors... and then she got blindsided 10 days out from closing by her loan officer calling to tell her she didn't _actually_ qualify for the loan - for reasons that had to do with info that she had already given him upfront at the beginning of the process. Long story short, we know it wasn't just something that was her fault because she was working with an experienced real-estate agent who was livid about what happened to her and now refuses to work with that particular bank (and it was a pretty well known, national bank.)

So that was a scary experience that I walked through with her; her family doesn't live close by and also are very negative people in general, so I was the one who went looking at houses with her, discussed the pros and cons of each house, etc. That experience has pushed me to do more and more research. My situation is slightly different than hers, my student loan debt is significantly smaller and my income is higher and viewed as "more stable" by traditional standards. I'd obviously have to talk to a loan officer with my bank or credit union to really know what my options might be but that's another thing that keeps me from actively looking at more property - to my understanding, once you start the process and are pre-qualified with your bank or loan agency, you only have a certain period to find a place before you have to be pre-qualified again, and it seems daunting to have a time limit on that. The husband of a co-worker of mine is a real estate agent, and he told me recently that some people don't even want you to come look at their property if you aren't already pre-qualified. But if I decided a "mini farm" type property wasn't my goal, for now, it would be a lot less daunting because there would be more places to look at.

I'm not sure of the overall property trends here as far as the swinging of price, but I do know that right now our area is significantly cheaper to buy in than surrounding states or even within our state if you're from an area that's more urban. With some of the job opportunities being built here, more people will likely be looking to purchase homes near here in the future, which I have to imagine will drive the price up somewhat. Which is why I'm still thinking about buying at all even though recent plans have changed.

So I guess when I type it out that way... the only thing holding me back from looking is the fear of the unknown, not the lack of a want to. All the "what ifs" that I really won't know the answers to until I actually talk to a reputable loan officer.
@SueC thank you for that very good point. :thumbsup: I would eventually like to travel more even though I don't have the budget for it right now. And a situation I specifically want to avoid is ever moving Dreama to a place where she is alone. Even with her previous owner she had her goats, but I think for her that wasn't enough. Just being able to be turned out with other horses has improved her quality of life so much.

I think that looking for a much smaller property may be something I start to look into... I'm also torn between doing that and starting to aggressively pay down my student loan. The place I work for right now qualifies for a program in which my loans would be forgiven IF I work here 10 years and make the minimum required payment every month in that time frame. But in 10 years who knows what could happen? Even if I still work here that program might not even exist. And if I set my mind to it I could completely have that debt paid off WELL before 10 years was up, avoid accruing so much interest on it, and lower my debt to income ratio significantly as that's currently the only debt I have to my name.

That's not to say I couldn't look at buying a reasonable, small home and also pay down the student debt. After the initial expense of inspection, a down payment, etc. I would likely not be paying any more, or if so not much more, for a mortgage payment than I currently do for rent.


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## CopperLove

*Barn Comedy*

I've been pretty heavy lately and my journal shows it.

So I thought I'd share some of the funnies from the Wild Boys at the barn (3 and 6 years old).



*Being included in the business plans of a 6 year old:*

6yo: "I think we're gonna sell this horse and get you a mustang instead."

Me: "What? But we're just now getting to the point I can sort of tell she likes me, kind of... maybe... sometimes."



*To preface this, I had no idea what a "beater car" was until I started spending time at the ranch. KL and ML try very hard to live within their means and pay cash for things. They have a bigger truck that's used but a little nicer to haul with, a suburban that's not in as good of shape but able to haul feed, hay, and has enough seating to hold the whole family when they need to travel. Then they keep a "beater car" - a really old, small car that gets better gas mileage than the bigger vehicles and they do all their own maintenance on. MY car is a Nissan Altima with close to 300,000 miles on it that I'm going to keep maintaining and basically drive until the transmission falls out.*

3yo: "Is that your beater car?"

Me: "That's my only car."

3yo: Looks at me. Looks at car. "Doesn't look like a beater car but it SOUNDS like a beater car."

Me: "Well... you're not wrong."



*The BEST one from this weekend :*

3yo: "Mom! I went and pooped."

KL: "Well, that's good."

6yo: "You wanna know where he popped? By the door. With the horse poop."

KL: "What?! Why did you do that???"

3yo: "And I wiped my but on a ROCK!"

KL: "... Even better. Go get the poop-scoop rake."


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## SueC

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Kids can be so hilarious. A friend's 5-year-old came home from pre-school and said, "It's such a good thing we have gravity!' :rofl:

I wonder do horsey parents ever consider putting their kids in a loose box with straw and mucking out, until toilet trained? Far more environmentally friendly than disposable nappies... and no nappy rash...


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## CopperLove

:rofl:
@SueC If any horsey parent had ever thought of it, it would be ML. As a couple, I typically describe them as “KL’s the more normal one. ML’s a little crazy… but he’s great with the horses and I haven’t died yet from any of his advice.” Their combined parenting style makes for some pretty interesting children. Although, I previously just wasn’t used to being around children that age, so maybe they’re all that way :lol:

There was also the time during that 7 mile or so ride we took toward the end of last Summer, that ended up being a lot longer than we intended because the trail was in need of maintenance. We took a break and the 6yo needed to pee. Understandably so.

Instead of going behind a tree or bush he says something like “I can pee inside and I can pee right here!” Dad says “Not in front of a lady!” Which 6yo ignores, drops his pants and proceeds, with dad just shaking his head. I politely pretended to be very interested in something off in the woods, although he clearly didn’t need my politeness. They’re homeschooled, and the only “lady” they’re ever with hiking or riding is mom, so I can see how this would be a “hole in their training” so to speak :lol:

During the same stop, I found a little, vibrant green inch-worm crawling on the leg of my pants, which I pointed out to the 3yo because, being the wild children they are, I figured he would enjoy a brightly colored bug.

He looked at me, very seriously, and told me that was poison!

I was taken aback. But they had already learned a practical outdoor piece of advice from their parents: Insects and other brightly colored things in nature are often poisonous/venomous and especially if you don’t know what they are, you shouldn’t bother them. So he was passing this knowledge along to me and clearly didn’t think I was very smart for thinking that an inch-worm was cute.


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## CopperLove

I don't know that anyone could have convinced me even half a year ago that there would ever come a day that Dreama would look happy to see a saddle pad.

I arrived earlier than usual yesterday while the family was still away at church. They have a new puppy that has a pen set up in an empty stall to keep it out of trouble and safe when no one is around. It caterwauls for attention and she's not sure how she feels about that noise yet (although after the family got home, she did get to stand tied with the other horses for a while listening to the puppy, and got to see that no one else was worried about the noise so hopefully that will help some,) so instead of tying her in front of that stall I went ahead and took her through the barn and out the front to the tie posts outside to groom.

After grooming I went ahead and got her tack out, I had a plan to do ground work in a new place without the distraction of children around.

When she saw me coming with the saddle pad she nickered softly at me the way she normally reserves for food. I felt bad for her... her leg is healing well and she's been turned back out with her friends in the lower lot, but she hasn't been back on a trail ride since the day she cut her leg because we don't want her to accidentally tear the wound back open, and it's situated in a way that a pad or wrap around the legs might irritate it, and she hasn't been turned back out up the hill when the other horses go yet either for the same reason. She thought we were about to go for a ride :frown_color:

Soon, the next time we have the chance, I know I need to go back out on a trail ride with her instead of on Hoss. She's tired of the round pen, I'm tired of the round pen. I don't want to become the person that's associated with only boring circles. She has now realized when I'm mounting that she can reach around to the right to receive a treat when I make the clicker noise. I won't mount or ride even in the round pen when no one is home on the property as a safety measure, but yesterday I went belly-over her saddle in their driveway and she gave me the same response she gives in the round pen, which I take to be a good sign.

I recently posted a question about working through her spooking at something specific: whenever the dogs run for that same area across the road that they rattled around in the leaves when she spooked in the round pen and I fell, she gets looky and nervous. Even when she can see the dogs coming from a distance. While I'd like to think I'm calm about it now from the ground, I do still have thoughts about what happens the next time I'm in the saddle and that happens and I'm sure that affects the way she feels about it. Yesterday, instead of taking her to the round pen first, I took her over into that area she keeps looking at. The driveway of the property is gated off, and that area is part of the fenced-in area, so I knew even if something happened and she got away from me, she wasn't going anywhere.

I wanted to do ground work in an area she was unfamiliar with and see how she reacted. She had never been in that part of the yard, had to cross a small ditch and go past an old chicken coop to get there and was quite snorty and "looky" at first, but I kept asking her for simple things, like walk with me at an appropriate distance, back up, etc. as per tinyliny's and some other advice on that question I posted. When she was calm and her focus was back on me, we left and did the same thing for a short while in the round pen with similar results. She wanted to eyeball the area we had just been in on the other side of the road at first, but settled quickly and when she was no longer worried about "the thing", we left.

I expressed my concern to KL and ML that I was worried about turning her into a more nervous horse than she had been before simply because I was nervous and I didn't want to accidentally turn her into a mess. Their advice was basically... we will, and already would have, stopped you if we saw you doing something we thought was bad for both of you in the long run. You're never going to learn without doing, and you're going to inevitably make mistakes while you're out here doing. You have a lot on your mind and you're worried about a lot that doesn't have anything to do with your horse, but you can't really help that right now. A horse is always going to know when you're stressed but that's just part of life sometimes. You're ok, she's ok. Just don't stop trying.

The good thing is, for now and I imagine for a long time to come, I always ride her with a group and horses are naturally more confident in a group anyway. The important thing is going to be actually getting back out there and doing that, since it seems to be something she actually enjoys.


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## CopperLove

Last Sunday, I sat on my own horse unsupervised for the first time... ever. It's amazing what a good weekend and a sunny day will do for you.

This Sunday just past, we went back up in the hills for the first time since the last fall. Admittedly, it was more like a kid and pony on a string (a loose one, but still on a lead rope) with ML walking beside us and KL and the kids in the lead on their horses, but ML's idea was if you're still nervous, let's try this. You'll see everything is ok.

And it was fine. I think we're really close to getting back out there "for real" but I have to regain my mindset that I am a rider and not just a passenger. She will take care of me, she's smart and sure-footed, but I have to RIDE, not let myself be hauled about like a sack of potatoes.

When we got back to the barn I just sat there a while with her. KL commented that she actually stands still now. When I make the clicker noise now, even after we've been out walking around and not just after mounting, she bends her head to the right to accept a treat. So I am starting to reward her the same way for stopping and standing still. ML commented that I'd done really well training her to do that (he wouldn't admit it but I don't think he believed it would work at first, or that it would just teach her a new bad habit.) 

The weather has been so nice that I've been to the local lake a few times. Sometimes you don't know how badly you needed the sun until you see it.



I'm currently working on putting together a small first aid/emergency kit for camping and trail riding. Camping and hiking more are on my to-do for me list this year and I'm determined to do so with or without my partner. I may get the opportunity to go horse camping with the barn family at some point this Summer. Thanks to a link from another HF user I think I have a set of horn bags picked out for my saddle. I thought about getting the bigger saddlebags that hang in the rear, but after some advice about using them, I think that might be too unwieldy for what I actually need. I'm going to get some kind of small day-pack, maybe a well-fitting backpack or sling bag, for hiking that will carry some small emergency items, phone, keys and some water. I may indulge myself and pick out some kind of travel backpack I've wanted for a long time, something I can carry everything in whether I'm camping, traveling to visit friends, or going home to visit family.


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## CopperLove

Normally I keep my cell phone on silent 24/7. During this work from home thing I've kept the ringer volume turned up since I have call forwarding from my office and I don't want to miss a call because if someone calls but doesn't leave a message, I can't tell what extension it was from.

This photo is the moment Dreama heard the fake "camera shutter" noise the phone makes because it's the first time I've ever taken her photo with the volume on. :lol:



On this particular day I was just hanging out with her in her stall while she ate, scrubbing my fingers around in her coat to knock out some of the loose hair before brushing. When I went to turn her back out, I took her back to the gate and took her halter off and she stood next to me for a few minutes just giving the muddy lot a disdainful sort of look. I kept encouraging her that she could go back out with her friends and she just looked back at me and sighed as if to say, "Do I have to? It's muddy."

They spend most of their day up the hill in the woods, which is of course still muddy right now but not as bad as the lower lot. We're all tired of the mud.

Today in the round pen the horse that was so averse to standing still at all, stopped when I said "woah" and started to lift the reins before I put any pressure on them.

I'm trying to take notice and have confidence in the little things. I was very aware today of how even if we're standing still and she's looking at something else, I can speak or run my hand along the reins without really moving them and she will flick an ear back toward me.


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## SueC

I love the lake photo!  I think hiking remote places is exactly the kind of hobby that's sensible to take up during a pandemic. If your SO doesn't want to go, you can probably find a hiking buddy? Our local area has hiking groups; it's usually possible to find buddies for walks with small numbers from their ranks! 

Wishing you and yours all the best! Keep safe.


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## CopperLove

@SueC As long as he keeps himself straight, he'll go with me and make a fine hiking partner. We both agreed hiking more often and camping were things we wanted to pursue this year. That's a good idea about hiking group buddies though, I had never thought about that. We don't live very far from a big trailhead into a national forest. But everything is SO muddy right now, and I don't have actual hiking boots. When the weather isn't so soggy I do fine in tennis shoes but that's a no-go right now. I have a pair of trail running/hiking shoes picked out that I would like to have, but I've put all non-essential purchases on hold for now. I imagine that my job will be fine once we get through all this but it still makes me nervous.

Since KL and I are both home-bound for work for at least the next few weeks, I was going to take some vacation time and we were going to trailer out and go riding at that very same local lake - there's a horse trail there that doesn't get a lot of use. But when we agreed on that the forecast for the week was looking like we'd have some sunny days and I don't think we've had a single day yet that it hasn't rained at least a little and honestly, we just don't want to be soggy and cold and wet right now. I want to be outside but until the weather is nicer I've got plenty of projects that are making me happy to get done indoors while I wait. :lol:

Oh, and my new hiking/camping bag came in last week! Even though things were already starting to co sideways here with the COVID-19 spreading, I decided to go ahead and order the "non-essential" item anyway because I knew if I kept putting it off I would change my mind again.

It arrived surprisingly fast. I still need to load it up and try it on with weight in it. It seems like it's really well made, but I'm a little concerned that the shoulders may be a bit narrow for me - not really possible to tell though until I pack it up. I've only tried it on while empty. Interestingly enough, while it doesn't have the mesh divider you talked about, the internal flex steel frame DOES curve away from the back. The padding that runs down either side of the back is very thick, but there's a gap in the center made even more pronounced by the curve of the frame. So I'll be really interested to see how that sits with weight in the pack. It seems like it's made to mimick the function you talked about with the mesh divider and curved-outward frame. I'm also very glad I went with a 30-liter bag and not anything larger.


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## CopperLove

*Photos of the Trails, Hiking/Riding*

I am very lucky that I still have access to the trails where Dreama is boarded. Our state parks, lakes and many hiking trails are closed as the situation with the pandemic progresses because although being outdoors and exercising is theoretically a good thing, too many people were still gathering in larger groups outside their immediate family unit.

The boarding family and I have not self-quarantined from each other although we try to be conscious about not staying right on top of each other when interacting. KL and I were both put on work-from-home right around the same time, ML was always work from home, and my partner is laid of work as his factory is closed for the time being. We've all only been at home or exposed to the same grocery stores locally so I continue to visit on a relatively normal schedule.

I only had to work a half-day Friday so I took a hike by myself and finally got photos of the lovely scenery along the trails. On Saturday, we saddled up and I went on the first trail ride I’d been on with Dreama since the last time I fell. We rode much of the same trail that I walked, probably only about a 3 mile loop total but it felt great. It was like I had been nervous for so long but all of a sudden yesterday I just… wasn’t anymore. It was a particularly good day, all of the horses were in an excellent mood, but in general Dreama and I were both much better off than we were before. A winter of what felt like doing nothing has apparently has paid off. She hadn't been ridden on a trail since she hurt her leg and she was still wonderful.

These riding/hiking trails on KL and ML’s property are the result of old logging trails from before they owned the place. They turned the trails into something ridable by clearing fallen trees, cuting down vines that tend to choke and kill the trees and make dangerous obstacles for horse and rider, and cleared any saplings that had grown up in the paths while leaving the bulk of the forest intact.

Things are starting to get green even though the leaves aren’t on the trees yet. Some trees are blooming, the pinky-purple ones you can see in some of the photos are redbuds. Looking back through the photos, it’s kind of like having a fairy tale to step into and get away from the rest of the world for a bit. I need to hike the trails more often both for the peace of mind and exercise.

One of the boarding family’s dogs accompanied me on the hike. That is, until I was too slow for his liking on the way home.





I think these are wild violets. I have a co-worker who makes a jelly out wild violets that is a lovely vibrant purple color.





I don’t actually know what these are but I thought they were fascinating. I found them in several places along the trail.



This was my favorite photo from the hike. It looks like a place you’d find a fairy waiting to make a bargain with you.


On horseback, you come down a short, steep hill to cross the creek just behind where I stood to get that photo, and then up a longer hill to get up to this path where you walk past these next rock formations/caves. There are some places in the rock that are big enough for a horse to stand in. In this first photo you can see the dog for size reference.









On the way back I took a wrong turn and ended up here before finding my way back.


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## whisperbaby22

Yea, to cool! Thanks for the photos.


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## CopperLove

Thanks @whisperbaby22 I'm sorry to see that your trails have been closed again. I'm still a little miffed that campsites and even just walking trails here are closed down, but I understand why it happened. We went to a local lake a few weeks ago before they officially closed just to take a walk and there were still so many people hanging out in big groups.


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## whisperbaby22

Yea, it's crazy here in So Cal. Beaches and parks have been closed, but we are still supposed to stay healthy, so streets are crowded with people. According to what I can figure, most people are keeping distance, and we all have to wear masks when outside. So far I am able to walk about my 1/2 acre property without it, but otherwise I have to use one. Since I always wear scarves on the trail to keep out bugs or dust if it gets to bad, I have been using scarves.


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## CopperLove

I have been absent for a while online as I find that because of our rural location, the day-to-day life here has seemed a lot more comforting than being online. I also would often check the forums on lunch and breaks at work, whereas I've been working from home the past couple of months and it seems there is always something else to do during down-times.

Things are still well enough here. Dream and I are better of now than we were before my first couple of falls. When I get frustrated with something I try to remember that while I have help, I've not had access to formal training and an arena, and take a step back and continue to work on one small thing at a time.

A few weeks ago, as the flies began to get bad, I discovered that the fly spray I had access to wasn't really working and had to replace it with something stronger. It seems to me that she's more sensitive to the biting pests than the barn owner family's mustangs are. I went back on the forum in search of recommendations to other members and ended up purchasing Tri-Tech 14. If anyone reads this and has other suggestions feel free to let me know.

Since I still don't feel comfortable riding alone in the woods, I've taken to hiking with her on the trail and practicing standing still while mounting just like we did in the round pen. She's been cooperative and relaxed aside from the first time I tried this when she was in heat. The downside to this is that there is no way onto the hiking/riding trails on this property without having to navigate a steep hill leaving and then returning home. It's steep enough that it's not particularly easy for me on horseback nor when leading a horse.

When my partner accompanies me he has a habit of getting what I deem to be severely unflattering photos, including this one of me taking a rest after making it to the top of the hill before continuing on.



We've also taken to cat walking. The kitten I adopted around Christmas time is quite the outdoor enthusiast. Unfortunately for her she is very fluffy and gets hot quickly.



My birthday passed in April and I finished a massive (about 8 feet long) shawl, pictured in the blocking process.



And a friend who makes ceramics gave me some small planters that I filled... the orchid is surprisingly doing better than the succulents. I moved the succulents outdoors and despite being on the porch out of the rain, I think the amount of humidity and rain her hasn't been great for them, and I should probably try to find a place to move them indoors.


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## knightrider

I asked my farrier what he used and he said he prefers Gordon's Horse and Pony spray, which you can only get at Tractor Supply around here. So, I started using it too. It's more expensive than many of the sprays, but it kind of works . . . as well as anything else anyway, and I've pretty much tried them all. I would think a farrier would really care about what works.

Before changing to Gordon's, for several years, I used a homemade spray of citronella, Skin so Soft, and vinegar. That worked OK and was cheap. I think the Gordon's works better.

And before that I tried just about every other thing that's ever been made . . . none of them work all that well.


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## whisperbaby22

Yea, most people just want recommendations on fly spray, but even though there are a lot of situations where it will not work, I use fly apparel. 

The pro is that you are not using a lot of chemicals on your horse. 

The other is pro cost. If your horse does not destroy it, fly sheets, boots and mask are much cheaper in the long run. If I had to use spray, I would switch to wipe. It's a real mess to deal with, but you and your horse are not breathing in the spray and wasting a lot of product by having it fly around in the air.


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## SueC

Hullo @CopperLove, and a belated Happy Birthday! :happy-birthday8::happy-birthday8:

I thought that was a lovely picture of you with your horse - not posed, just what happens. :smile: Wait till you see an unflattering photo of me I'm going to include in a mountain hike post soon, simply because it's the only one to show the view below on the ascent... :shock:

You mare is looking so well, and so glossy. And I love that shawl, just amazing - is it knitted / crochet work? Your friend made some very cute planters there. Isn't it nice to be creative, and to have creative friends! :dance-smiley05:

It's good to hear from you!


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## CopperLove

@knightrider I'll have to check that out the next time I buy a bottle. The Tri-Tech 14 works a lot better than the cheaper bottles they offered to let me use at the barn. They will still bite some, but she seems a lot more comfortable after being sprayed. A bonus seems to be that it has managed, so far, to keep the ticks at bay as well. KL warned me last week that they had found ticks on their mares' udders, and that if I checked and found any she would help me remove them. No ticks so far (knock on wood). We have said for a few years now that the "ticks have been bad here", but they apparently are worse this year as ticks in that area, in particular, were not an issue last year.
@whisperbaby22 I think fly apparel can be good in a lot of cases. The repetitive use of certain chemicals does make me nervous, but because so much of their turn-out area is wooded, I would be very concerned to turn her out with any type of fly apparel left on her for fear it would get caught up on tree limbs and such.

Thank you @SueC :smile: The shawl is knitted. I didn't think your picture was so bad either! Some people might consider it quite flattering. :rofl: I was also glad to see from your journal that Sunsmart has somewhat improved. I hope things are continuing to go better for him. :hug:


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## whisperbaby22

All my stuff is attached with velcro, I switch out any attachment that is not velcro. If it gets caught on anything it just falls off.


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## CopperLove

I kind of fell off the face of the earth and now need to catch up with the goings on at Horse Forum... along with everything else happening I've been having connectivity issues on my personal computer, which is a desktop. As I type this I'm set up on an end table in the living room. I am in need of calling apple customer support to try to fix a wifi issue on the computer but I dread to. There have just been way too many other things to call and do within business hours, so for now I'm hooked up via ethernet cable.

I've been an extremely busy bee while I've been away from Horse Forum...

I bought a property.

It came up for sale only 2 miles from where I'd been renting... a place I passed every day on the way to work. Approximately 9 acres, with a barn that already has water and electric run to it. A large chunk of the land is already cleared off nicely in the front for either pasture or hay and the back corner is still forested and touches a national forest boundary.

View from the house to the barn:


View from the woods to the back of the barn:


The contact for the hay cutting came with it. A neighbor approached me to ask if I would be alright with the man who normally cuts the hay continuing to do so. I eagerly agreed - he cuts the whole field for free in exchange for the hay, which is perfect right now as it keeps that part of the property maintained without me really having to put any effort into it until I'm ready to do something else with it. I counted 23+ round bales with this last cutting.



Full honesty here: I was only able to afford the property because the home on it is a single-wide mobile home that's as old as I am. A 1993 model, the previous owners did a lot of renovations and did all the repairs you'd normally expect on a trailer of that age. Looking at it both inside and out, and at the insulation etc. underneath, one would not guess that it's 27 years old. (Which admittedly still doesn't negate the fact that it's a single wide mobile home.) It passed inspection just fine and while it's not my dream house, it is very livable, in good condition, and I really view it as not much different than people living the "tiny home" trend and it's more stable structurally speaking than camper living (which we've also discussed here, has crossed my mind in the past.)

All in all, it feels very appropriate. It's in a very desirable place in my area to buy property, and the whole mobile home bit drives the price down some but doesn't stick out like a sore thumb since mobile and manufactured homes are very common here. I was also able to work with a smaller local bank which has done business with my parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles etc. for years and was willing to do an in-house loan for me with a good interest rate. It's been REALLY nice doing business with them - I am able to call and directly reach the people handling my accounts any time I have a question. They are definitely on my Christmas card list this year.

The barn was built in 1993 as well I believe. The roof has been replaced since then. The internal support structure is in good condition and the walls themselves aren't terribly shabby. I had it inspected for termites when I had the home inspected before buying to make sure it wasn't infested and ready to fall apart. Overall, yes it's a 27 year old barn but seems to be holding up well and already has 3 stalls built in, a gate across the middle of the barn to create a run-in space for livestock/horses, a small fenced area in the back which also has a gate. The original hayloft is also intact and sturdy. And it was CLEAN on the inside too aside from the usual cobwebs and a bit of leftover straw - not caked in animal feces from uncleaned stalls etc. as are many older, dirt-floor barns I've seen.

It turns out the previous property owner is the brother of a close friend of mine locally, which has proven to be convenient since he runs a side business bush-hogging properties for people and already knows the lay of the land behind the barn in the areas that aren't mowed for hay because of stumps, ditches, etc. I think now that I've paid him to cut it down once, I will be able to keep up with the area behind the barn with my mower now. (It was INSANE trying to find lawn equipment during this time - I was looking for a used riding mower in decent condition and everything that was listed was snatched up so fast that the yard really got away from me before I was able to mow it. We were barely able to find a suitable weed-eater in stores.)

There was a room in the barn that was advertised as a "tack room"- it was an interior room that was clearly a fairly recent add on to the barn. I decided to sacrifice this as a chicken coop. It was too muggy inside during the Summer in my opinion to really be a tack room, it seemed like the kind of place where leather tack would mold. The floor has swollen and the door is difficult to open and shut. This wasn't a huge deal to me since it wasn't part of the original structure of the barn. I knew it would be useful for something, just perhaps not what it was advertised for.

So I spent the better part of a day removing part of one of the walls (which would have taken much less time had whoever built it NOT used two different sizes of torx screws, but on the plus side I now have a box of expensive screws saved to use for something else) and put wire up instead so that it could be well ventilated. I spent NOTHING on the wire, because the previous owners left behind some unused chicken and fencing wire.

This is a picture from inside the barn looking at the interior wall of the room where I took the piece of particle board down:



I put wire up over this space, took down that old shelf inside, swept everything, covered the electrical outlets with child-safety protectors and put shavings down. I debated taking the hooks out of the ceiling but I am considering hanging perches/roosts for the chickens - I am still researching the best way to add to the space to make an ideal coop. There is a lot of room to work with, for now there is a pre-existing bench, a table and that corner built in shelf they can roost on but there are some changes I have to make, and have already added a couple of nesting boxes. I still need to take the door off in favor of something that opens outward and is easier to open and close.



As for Dreama and I... if someone had told me even a month ago that I would be going out in the woods alone trail riding I'd have laughed nervously. But that's what I've been doing, 4 trips at this point I think, of increasing length.

The husband of the barn owner pair broke his leg in a non-horse related incident, so there were not as many chances to go out riding in a group and not as much assistance at hand.

Something just finally clicked. She was "barn-sour" after not being worked with and ridden much while I was moving, but I think mainly she was BORED. After I got her away from the barn and started doing more activities with her again she improved quickly, and finally one day I just decided it was time to take the hill by ourselves. And then the next day, to do the shortest trail loop. And after that, further. We've even encountered dear by ourselves and done well.

She moves out eagerly although she still has a tendency to rush home a bit, which we're working on. The sad thing is that we accomplished this just before the time change, and now I can barely make it out after work before dark. I will have to force myself to be disciplined about ground work during the week even if it is a little dark, and riding on the weekends.

If you have Facebook you might be able to view this video if you'd like; I shared it on the page I use for my crafting brand, so it's public. It's not terribly interesting and is lacking in the "horse ear shot" category as the camera was mounted rather high on my helmet, but the autumn scenery was particularly lovely this day:








Take a beautiful Halloween ride with... - Fairy Tale Fancies | By Fairy Tale Fancies | Take a beautiful Halloween ride with me. 🐎🥰


165 views, 2 likes, 0 loves, 0 comments, 2 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Fairy Tale Fancies: Take a beautiful Halloween ride with me. 🐎🥰




fb.watch





I hope all has been as well as possible with everyone else, I've got a lot of catching up to do.


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## whisperbaby22

Wow this all sounds great. Mobile homes come in all categories. Mine is on a permanent foundation, and it's hard to tell it's a mobile. 

Buying now with interest rates so low _(here in the states) is a super good idea. And yes, with the lockdown it's been hard to buy stuff, _I was lucky to score a chainsaw I needed.


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## carshon

Wow! I am envious. A mobile home would not deter me from buying a property. Good for you!


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## ACinATX

Wow, your new place is GORGEOUS! Congrats!


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## SueC

Dear @CopperLove, how fantastic!   🥳

Pah these emojis, and still getting used to the new format, but so good to hear from you and to get your good news! Your patch of earth looks great. 🥰 Gorgeous mountain scenery all around a very pretty and useful area you can do things with... Don't worry about being in a trailer for now. We did that for a couple of months while building and yours sounds a lot more well-maintained, our borrowed one was quite rickety, but a godsend at the time... Here's a little retrospective of how we started, with lots of photos: Caravan Days – Sue Coulstock

Many retired people in Australia live on the road in trailers, going all around the country, and live very well doing it. And it buys you time and eases your financial burden so that you can perhaps look at putting something solid and unique together for yourself down the track. Now you've got time to consider all your options, you're not going to need a mortgage to do that - you can just build something lovely and suitable in stages if you want to, like so many people do - and it doesn't have to be expensive, or difficult. Some of the loveliest little dwellings I've seen are all owner builds. Here's some links to drool over:









How to Build an Earthbag Dome For $300


Earthbag houses are typically simple to design and build, especially when building a dome-shaped home. See exactly how this Earthbag dome was constructed.




offgridworld.com













18 Beautiful Earthbag House Plans for A Budget-Friendly Alternative Housing


18 Amazing and creative plans to build your own earthbag house that is inexpensive, environmentally friendly, and catastrophe proof.




morningchores.com













How To Build An Earthbag House For $6,164!


Jay Eisenberg and his wife built their incredible earthbag dome house for $6164, completed recently in 2017, built using a mix of cob, polypropylene earthbags, and salvaged materials.




insteading.com













Earthbag Round House For Less Than $5,000


Looking for a very stable design which does not only come cheap from the start but also makes you save money in the long run. Due to its shape and materials used, the earthbag house has less area than your normal home, so it’s cheaper to keep it supplied with energy. Don’t be scared if you never...




offgridquest.com





All of these are inexpensive and gorgeous and you're arty and well able to do something like this! 🥳


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## SueC




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## CopperLove

The last time I posted I had been wrapped up with the good things happening. Unfortunately my continued absence has been because things haven't been so great.

A close family member, someone who lived on and cared for my grandfather's farm passed away just before thanksgiving. He was an addict who had been in recovery for years but eventually started to slide down hill after his mother passed away. It was, up to that point in my life, the most difficult funeral I'd ever attended. We don't believe it was suicide, but he was bad enough off he knew something was going to happen soon because he called multiple family members just a few days before it happened and had long conversations with them.

Then on December 13, my dad passed away. Dad hadn't been in good health for a long time but not in the kind of way that made this expected... He was only 60 years old. He had type 2 diabetes that he had not managed well for most of his life. I saw my parents on Thanksgiving and he hadn't felt well, had been retaining fluid, and was swearing he would make an appointment with his doctor.

For some reason on the day he passed, I woke up just worried in general... I was worried about how I was going to get a fence up and be able to bring Dreama home, and I was worried about "what do we do when something happens to dad?" When mom called me that evening it felt like I had breathed it into being.

A few weeks ago now I started feeling ill and went for a test and was diagnosed with COVID. I wasn't surprised because even though I'd been trying to still keep my social distance from others, I had been on the road visiting my family often since dad passed. Thankfully no one else I had been in contact with got sick. Even my partner who LIVES with me has shown no symptoms, and tested negative after being exposed to me being ill for 6 days. If his second test comes back negative he will be able to return to work tomorrow.

My symptoms were mild in comparison to what I know a lot of people have experienced but it definitely hit me harder than the flu. Our local health department asks that you self-isolate for 10 days from the first day you start experiencing symptoms and it took me the full 10 to feel well again. I still feel tired if I over-exert myself, although I guess anyone would feel tired experiencing exercise again after 10 days of mostly sleeping. Mainly, being unable to go to work (even though we're still on a partially work from home schedule and I am only in the office 2-3 days a week anyway) and being unable to go to the barn finished tanking my mood after everything else.

We have a leak coming in from above our kitchen window, sort of around the frame, which we've determined is probably a gutter leveling issue, but for some reason that has been the worst thing in my brain - I KNOW the whole home isn't falling apart, I had it inspected before I purchased, but sitting here staring at it and being unable to do anything about it until our isolation is officially over has made me feel absolutely bonkers.



I thought the first snow here was beautiful, but right now I'm needing spring to come back so that I can remember how beautiful I thought everything was and why I thought it was a good idea to buy and move here. Mom is considering moving closer to me, which is fine and may be for the best, but it means that I am probably in for a very busy year. One of my main goals was to get fence up and bring Dreama home this year but it honestly may be best if that waits, at least the part of transporting Dreama here (I would still love to go ahead and get some type of fencing up because if mom does move, I imagine I will inherit her mini horse). That way even if I end up having to stay with mom for a while to help her prep to move, I know Dreama will be somewhere with people who are horse-knowledgable to care for her 24/7.

On Wednesday after work I got to go back to the barn for the first time in two weeks, between COVID and being snowed in. I just led her in, fed and groomed her. Everything is still mud mud mud here and still dark so early. As I was leaving she kept giving me this look over her stall.



Yesterday I was able to go out earlier, do some ground work and we went on our first ride in over two weeks. I was surprised by how well that went. She was reaching for the bit before I could get it in her mouth. She was a little hot but not spooky at all. I've always had it in my head that she's not the type of horse that would do well not being worked with for weeks at a time. But yesterday was sunny and warmer than it had been in weeks, so even though it was still muddy in places it was a lot nicer. I think overall she does better on nicer days - the same kinds of days that I actually want to go riding as well. And honestly for my purposes I think that suits me just fine, I don't like being out when it's cold and muddy and nasty either. If we had a flat place to ride it might be different, but there is no easy way up or down out of those hills in the mud.

Afterward I got to sit outside the round pen and watch the family work with a mare they bough last year who had been used as a brood mare and not ridden for the past handful of years that they are re-starting under saddle. Just being able to sit in the sun and observe again made me feel so much better. I still have a leak that needs fixing, but I'll be able to have someone in the house this week to look at it, and it doesn't feel as much like the end of the world. My hens are laying 6-7 eggs a day now, so now that I'm not ill I'm able to share eggs with friends via porch drop-off. Spring is close, and I know I'll feel much better when there's more sunlight and more time outside.


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## knightrider

So good to hear from you! I wish you continued recovery. My daughter got covid last week from her boyfriend. She is doing college by remote learning, but he was not. So far, all of our other family members are testing negative. I keep washing my hands and sanitizing everything, hoping to keep everyone else from getting sick. My daughter is not recovering as quickly as I had hoped. I can well understand the frustration.


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## whisperbaby22

Condolences for your losses.

What a lot to go through. It takes a lot of strength to do so.


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## CopperLove

@knightrider I am absolutely shocked that as far as we know my partner hasn't had it. When the health department called after my positive test, they asked how many bedrooms and bathrooms we had in the home and whether we could try to isolate from each other... and I said that we could make separate bedrooms but only had one bathroom and they basically said that without being able to have separate bathrooms there was a high chance he would get it too, and to just call if we had any questions or if symptoms got worse. We are going to be cleaning today because I want to sanitize one more time before we have anyone in the house to look at the kitchen window situation. I hope your daughter feels well again sooner rather than later and that you all stay well!

@whisperbaby22 Thank you, it's been rough but I'm lucky to have family and friends who form a good support system.


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## carshon

So sorry for the losses your family has experienced. Thankful you are recovering and there were no lasting issues. I am glad you took the time to update - I have always enjoyed your journal


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## CopperLove

Thank you @carshon .

Dreama was a partial Christmas gift from my Dad, Christmas eve of 2018 - given by my aunt but Dad paid my first month of board and he then spent the money to throw up a quick electric fence for the short period she stayed at he and mom's property after my aunt quit boarding. He was the one who drove her here so I could board her much closer to me.

He liked to call her "The most expensive free horse ever."

Recently my saddle bit the dust - I guess the tree wore out or something, I tried everything in the world but could not keep it from sliding forward over her shoulders going downhill. A family member who was thinking of selling some saddles offered to let me try a few before buying and the one I picked was an old saddle that had been sitting in an old farm-house they bought. It needed a lot of clean up but seemed to otherwise be in decently solid shape and fit us better than the other available options and I was particularly drawn to it for no apparent reason. When I told them that's the one I wanted to buy they wouldn't accept any money for it - they said they would continue Dad's tradition and that we would tell everyone it was "The most expensive free saddle ever," because they had to buy the house to get it.

Dad and I butted heads a lot. I remember doing stuff as a teenager just to prove that I could because he thought I couldn't. When I took that carpentry class, he was absolutely certain I was going to cut at least one finger off with a saw. But throw me up on a horse none of us really knew anything about? He thought that was the best idea because that's what he'd done as a boy.

In a way, Dreama is living, breathing proof of what he thought I was capable of, even if he didn't always say it.


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## SueC

Dear @CopperLove, I'm sorry to hear that you've lost family and been ill. And we don't have our brilliant old hug emoji anymore, and this is a poor substitute: 🦑 I hope you are feeling better.

Minor things like a leak you can't fix can be extremely irritating. We had a tap that leaked into the bathroom cabinet for over two years and could never get a plumber to look at it - we'd book one and he'd not turn up and reschedule. The ice cream container in the cabinet needed emptying daily and even though we jammed the door open, the cabinet got mouldy inside; and then the top started to warp. Every time we were in the bathroom it was drip drip drip and our lovely cabinet slowly disintegrating and it was actually depressing to have a long-standing problem we couldn't fix ourselves and to have no end in sight. It became like a sort of metaphor for the dark side of life; like a prophecy of doom, in a way.

Finally we started imploring a local dairy farmer with plumbing skills on a weekly basis to please help and a couple of months later he did, and fixed the tap - and it was honestly like Christmas. I could finally clean the cabinet and know it would just dry and stay clean - and after a few weeks, the warp in the top began to flatten again as well, against expectation! I'm still super-happy and the leak was fixed over six months ago. So best wishes with your leak.

It's good that your horse is well, and I'd only be riding when it's not a chore for either of you, as well.

It's not been a great end-of-year for us last year either, though not at your scale. We had very bad hayfever for three months and I couldn't sleep properly at night because it was like a bad flu all that time. I'd hoped to get desensitised at an allergy specialist's last year but then the pandemic happened. By Christmas I was just crawling around listlessly and then I had a stressful week and splat, that tipped me into burnout. I got through January working as best as I could but looking forward to this: Brett had annual leave booked for the first half of February and both of us took it as a holiday. We stayed home and vegetated and slept a lot - no hiking at all (just walks around the farm), unusual for us, but this week is the first week back at work for both of us and we're feeling so much better!

Allegedly people who are/were ill feel better when someone else tells them that they've been ill too - because they're not the only ones having a bad time. It seems strange that we're like that! 😄 Anyway, if that made you feel better then I'm OK with that. 🙃

It's nice that you updated your journal - it's always thoughtful and frequently lovely - even now I can literally feel the nearly-spring sunshine you were talking about. 🌞 The sun is retreating away from this hemisphere at the end of our summer now, and we're glad because it fries us in summer - the in-between seasons are the best here! It's nice to think that it's shared around more between north and south, during in-between seasons. 

Wishing you and Dreama a lovely spring. 🦄


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## CopperLove

I thought it was time for an update and it's a long one - but hopefully I'll have better things to share soon, and probably much advice to ask again.

Since Dad passed away, I’ve been dealing with mental health in a way that I’ve never had to before. Obviously grief is a very individual thing but it wasn’t just the grieving, the sadness, that was doing me in. I’ve always been a planner and a worrier, but I was experiencing an abnormal amount of anxiety and ruminating over bad things that haven’t even happened yet.

We have access to counseling and therapy through a program at work, so I reached out to that. After some discussions with my counselor we decided that temporary medication might be a good option for me – some reasons for that being that I was very aware of and tracking my mood, and even though I have healthy coping mechanism and supportive friends and family, my outlook and mood was not improving. Everyone needs a rest, but it was like I had reached a point where I felt physically unable to do anything including basic chores and hobbies (hence months of absence from usual online activities as well.)

So I finally started some medication for depression and anxiety – the same week that Dreama was diagnosed with heaves.

I made myself physically ill that week hunting for a vet to come out to find out what was wrong with her, and driving to check on her every single day - a 30 minute drive out and a 30 minute drive back, which used to seem like nothing but in my mental state at the time seemed exhausting. I'm not sure what triggered her sudden reaction, but one day I went to go walk with her and noticed the sound on her breathing when walking up and down hill. Now that I've read more about it I suspect maybe the quality of hay declined over winter and she is sensitive to it, and she has improved some now that more grass is growing.

Thankfully I found a vet to come out that I really like. He explained to me what was happening and that the ideal solution is to be on grass full time. Based on her condition at the moment, he gave her a long-acting steroid shot and showed me how to administer it in case it was needed again (I’ve given her another dose this month.) I appreciated him because he was both practical and compassionate. He took the time to explain all available treatments and possible outcomes.

Unfortunately, as with many boarding situations, there’s not room for Dreama to be out on pasture full time where she is. She’s being rotated through pasture as much or more as the other horses, but is outside the rest of the day in a dry area and still stalled at night, and it simply isn’t enough to entirely relieve her symptoms.

I wanted to take my time and put up more solid fencing before bringing Dreama home, but time has become the most important thing now so plans have changed. I decided on electric fencing because it will be the fastest to put in and my partner and I could do the labor ourselves. She’s also accustomed to partially being behind electric fencing anyway.

We’ve spent the past two weekends working our tails off, cleaning and prepping the barn to make sure it’s horse-safe and clearing the area behind the barn. If we can get a little bit of fencing in and get her home, we have so much grassy area that we aren’t currently using for anything else, that she and another horse would never be able to eat it all down. After I get her home I can worry about expanding the area and separating lots so that I can rotate her and a companion to better manage pasture area.

My mood and my ability to cope with things is back to normal for now – I certainly don’t feel as if I’m “not me” as some people describe with medication. I feel like I am the me I was before losing three family members last year, buying a home and having COVID-19. I simply feel busy but capable of doing what I need to do. So I’m using my restored energy to focus on bringing Dreama home as soon as possible.

For now while I rapidly try to get fence up, I’ve switched her to a senior feed to try to keep up her weight, and added Red Cell as a vitamin supplement which the vet recommended for overall health.

Unfortunately I also have a feeling that the mood has changed where I board… ML was present when the vet was out and heard all the advice given. But it’s almost as if they expect the steroid injections to fix everything, and that is not the case with heaves. They were quick to recommend that if I had concerns I should have a vet out – which is logical, I was going to do that anyway. But now that the vet advice has been given, they seem more than willing to give advice that doesn’t match what I was told by the vet.

I’ve had the thought, the worry, that maybe they’re offended that I’m no longer exclusively following their advice. And I’m trying to just let that thought go - It’s not their fault this happened, I have never implied that it was, and I’ve thanked them for trying to help me with it. It is not my job to try to decipher whether or not someone else is upset/what they are feeling if they aren’t willing to clearly tell me. I may even be reading the situation incorrectly, everyone has their own lives and problems and whatever change in mood I sense may have nothing at all to do with Dreama and I.

It is only my job to make the best decisions I can for Dreama, try to keep her healthy and comfortable, and right now that means following veterinary advice, and bringing her home where she can be on more pasture. The end goal of owning my own property was always to have my own animals at home, the only thing that has changed about that is how quickly I’m trying to reach that goal, and there’s no reason for anyone to find that odd.

Another change that’s coming, so that Dreama will not be alone when she arrives home, is that I’ll be taking on Mom’s miniature horse, Hercules. It was her suggestion and while I worry that she’ll be sad to see him move, I think in the long run it will be good for him as well because I can also work on managing his weight and diet, and he’ll have a companion too.

While learning to ride was and is a goal, I’ve realized that’s not the only important thing to me. Peace and companionship is the most important thing. I’ve enjoyed walking with Dreama, teaching her things from the ground and seeing a visible change in her reactions to me as I learned how to reward her for things. Slowly I’ll work on the same things with Hercules (although due to his weight, I’ll have to be more careful with food-rewards.)

I’m hopeful that if I can get Dreama home and out onto grass instead of hay and stall-kept at night, that her condition will improve and be manageable. But I’m also aware that if her condition doesn’t improve significantly this could be the end of our riding together. Either way, I just hope that I can keep her healthy and comfortable and enjoy her company for more years to come. I’ll admit here that it would be pretty devastating to lose her at this point… but I can’t let myself dwell on that because my energy right now needs to be devoted to her care and not to something that hasn’t happened yet.


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## carshon

I am sorry that you have had such a tough year. This has happened to so many people I know (my own father passed away last May and I was not able to see him, and he has yet to be interred due to my step Mom's poor health) I am glad that you sought out help. Medications can make a huge difference. I am glad it has for you.

Dreama's heaves are a tough go. I have never dealt with it but had a friend successfully deal with it for years in her horse. Glad you found a great vet - they are hard to come by now a days!


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## SueC

Sorry things have been rough for you and glad things are picking up mood-wise and energy-wise - sometimes SSRIs are helpful for getting back to normal life after bereavement, stress etc. It's also a shame if indeed the people where you board don't see that you need to do the best by your horse even if it means moving her, and because you have your own pasture and can set up your horse on your own land, of course you're going to do that sooner or later, and with the veterinary health advice, sooner would be my thinking as well. It's not easy though when there seem to be tensions around decisions we have to make for the good of the health of things in our care etc with people we are or were friendly with in the past. I'm hoping they will come to accept your decision and remain friends.

When you manage Dreama and the pony together on your own pasture, a grazing muzzle for the pony will be your best friend! And if you put it on the pony from the go-get of turning him out at your place, he'll hopefully learn to see it as a normal thing at your place, rather than, "What have you done? I want to hoover!"

We have the same issue with two of our donkeys. This is one of them with his compulsory springtime grazing muzzle a few years ago.

__
https://flic.kr/p/21EGZya

Best wishes to you & Dreama.


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## CopperLove

@carshon I'm so sorry to hear about your dad also. I think on top of everything else, the grieving process so many of us desperately need as been changed/interrupted and I think that makes it even more difficult to cope.

I'm glad to hear your friend has had success managing heaves - it is definitely something new and scary for me. The vet seemed to think that she was otherwise in pretty good condition, and the fact that this is something we've not really had to deal with until this season makes me hopeful that with a change in environment things will continue to improve.

Finding a vet was very stressful and I felt like a very bad horse owner while searching. I called so many places that day and none would come make a farm call until I found the one we ended up with. Where I'm from, where my mom currently lives with her mini, I never realized how lucky we were. There are two vets within distance there that will make farm calls and we've had good experiences with both. Here, especially since where I've been boarding is so far off the beaten path, as far as I've found there's only the one vet that will come. He's also the vet our neighbors use and highly recommend.


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## CopperLove

@SueC Thank you, I definitely feel like I'm back to a normal level of worry/anxiety considering current situations. The most amazing thing to me besides change in mood is the affect it's had on my energy. I like the outdoors but I work a desk job, so I'm very aware that a big part of my life is sedentary. But I had never ever felt so exhausted and "lazy" as I have the past few months. Now, even though I'm not the most physically fit person, we've been mowing with a push mower, cleaning and painting the porch, cleaning the barn, and even picked up walking on lunch with a group at work and walking 1-2 extra miles a day when the weather is good and I STILL do not feel as exhausted as I felt in the past months.

There's going to be a LOT to work on with little man once he's moved here and a grazing muzzle is high on my list.  He actually has lost a bit of weight since the last photos I shared of him. He leads and loads easily (if you can catch him), and that's about it. He needs to be taught to pick up his feet, and to stand for grooming, etc. It will be a new challenge but for now my plan is to go slowly, give him a chance to get comfortable with being handled more, and use some of the same tactics I've learned to employ with Dreama over the past few years.

I'm obviously not the most qualified person but I still feel like I can accomplish something with him, slowly and steadily.


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