# Am I doing the right thing for my Arab



## piglet (Oct 2, 2012)

Um . . . it was very hard reading that with no paragraphs.

Listen to your instincts.

Get him to the REAL trainer. Not someone who provokes rearing. Not someone who is laying a guilt trip on you to try to get you to stay, because she wants your MONEY.

Do what you KNOW is best for your horse.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

If you are up to it, work him at the walk along the rail about 6' away. Try to keep a loose rein. As soon as he starts to speed up turn him toward the rail. He'll may stop but just guide him to continue the turn and work you way out the 6' again. Keep doing this every time he decides to speed up. When you can circle the arena and he maintains the walk, as for a trot and do the same turnbacks. He's figuring out that the turnbacks are harder work and he'll start maintaining speed. When he will trot the arena once, dismount, loosen the cinch and put him away. That is a huge reward for him. Repeat the next time again at the walk, to refresh him, then the trot. He may revert but you know what to do now. Only when you feel he's solid at the trot do you ask for the lope. If you have to turn him back, no shame in grabbing the horn with the non steering hand. Do this work in a simple snaffle which is designed for two hand use. Let us know how it goes. A good trainer will bring out the best in the horse. Be careful of the male ego, they always know more than they do.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

It seems he was at his best with only you, so.......maybe he doesn't want to be a show horse. Maybe he just wants to be a horse.

Whatever you decide be sure you check on him often.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Almost seems to me that these "trainers" are NOT what they seem to be. If a horse gets WORSE at the trainers it is not the trainer for you. Go with your gut and screw what they think. Especially if the change is as drastic as you say.


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## WandaB (Feb 12, 2016)

Sorry about no paragraphs & so long....I was reliving it all and got carried away .


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Here is the OP with paragraphs. You aren't getting very many replies because most people look at that wall of text and just can't face it. 

"I will try to keep this short but understanding as well..Hard to throw in 2 years .

I bought this Arab from a girl who was Assit to a trainer. She trained him with the trainers advise. The Video that sold me on him was him shooting a gun off of him, holding a flag, doing barrels, Poles, sorting cattle, spinning, and pleasure. 

I have been out of the horse scene since I was 12. Started riding when I was 5, doing my own thing at 7. I use to do barrels. I do have 2 other horses that are draft/quarter that was givien to me but only trained as a team so I wanted one I could ride.

I purchased him, in May of 2014 of the thoughts of barrels and if that didn't work I could do pleasure...well I went to plan B after I realized when he came off the 1st barrel I came out of my seat about a ft...so this 54 year old ( 25 at heart) decided pleasure it would be. I went to a 2 day weekend show, my 1st show after 43 years in Oct and came how with 22 ribbons out of 25 classes. 
Pulled all 2nds in this open show pleasure. 

I let him sit for the winter for I do not have a indoor and closest is 1/2 hour away. I sent him to the trainer who helpled his previous owner for a tune up.....He was working on tucking his head for the bigger Arab shows. 

He was not the same horse..He wouldn't slow down or tuck on command. After 2 months I brought him home and worked with him. He threw his head up a couple times but nothing bad. But he would not slow down on command. 


It was still cold so I rented a indoor and had his previous owner come out to help. Well in the lop he decided to throw his head up and take off. He did this 3 times and that 3rd time was bad. I loaded him and took him back to trainer for my saftey. 

After 2 weeks I went for a lesson and when I seen him in his stall he looked terrible. He had raw spots on corners of his mouth, chin was raw and had raw spots behind his front legs and under his tail bone. His eyes where not the soft happy eye I knew. I took him home a week later...rode in my arena and took him to a couple shows. We placed and I was happy. Last show was a local Arab show and came home with 2 trophys, 2.3 & 4th. 


So 1st of Janurary this year his previous owner left the trainer, rented a stables and started her own board & training. Thought great..she trained him so I will send him back to her for freshing up for a few months til I could ride him. 1st day with his correctional bit on she rode him ..little frisky for 1st ride....I get a call few weeks later and she tells me she's been using a twisted snaffle and working his neck muscle, but she but the correctional bit back on ( that's what I have always used) when she went to correct him he threw his head up and took off. 

She said it was terrible. She admitted she was out of control, and almost had to run him into the wall to get him to stop. She said he has lost all the work she put into him and the trainer she worked for was hard on his mouth and it's going to take a gentle hand and time. This happened a few more times of throwing his head but not nearly as bad. She stated using the draw reins and he still would through his head and rear a little but got control back. 


I was there..rode him some and he was fine but then tossed his head some..I got off and she got on and he did it with her with a little rear. Week goes by and I get a text saying she rode him and he reared up on her twice. Took draw reins off and he rode ok. This hole time my head is spinning. He wasn't like that at my house when I used the draw reins last fall. They don't forget what they where taught.

Her and a another client was telling me they do forget..and I was wrong and he needs to stay there cause I can't handle him. He only set 2 months.. Grrr.

After the rearing issue I said that's it..He's getting worse. Let me explain that this horse is like a puppy. I play ball with him by telling him to go get the ball and he looks at me, then the ball and trots to the ball and picks it up and shakes it...loves to play.

This is the same horse that I taught in 2 days when I walk into his stall he backs up and stands in the corner while I dump his feed. He does not move til I take a step back and tell him it's ok. He has stood there for over 30 seconds waiting for my command. This is the same horse that when cleaning his stall he comes and put's his head on my shoulder wanting some affection..(I know..horses are different from when your on the ground to on there back) 

.Now that you got the back ground I have decided to take him to a very well known Arab Trainer who has been around Arabs all his life as his father was a trainer. 2005 & 2007 he has won trainer of the year award ( more I'm sure) and last year I believe he won National Championship. I called him and told him about the situations. He wasn't able to get all the information just bits and pieces cause he is at Arizona for a show but took the time for my call. My horse will be going to him end of Feb. 

So here's why the head spining. Previous owner knows he has the knowledge and experience over her but insist this will mess my horses head up even more taking him to a different trainer, and she could make him better then he was before in time and that if I take him he will no longer be able to return cause this in and out training makes them pick up nasty habits.


I feel I'm doing the right thing. At this time he is being sent to him to fix his naught habit he picked up, not for show training at this time. I'm feeling guilty taking him if it's going to mess with his head. The reason I took him to her was cause she did train him and was 1/2 the cost. The only experince she had was working with the other trainer for 2 years. This trainer he is going to is a distant friend of the other trainer she worked for. 

But he was upset cause he said he is still getting away with being naughty and worse cause she is not correcting the sitution and fears the safty of the rider and the horse...which when I watched she just worked him out of it and continue on til it happened again. 

My opliges for this long post, I'm old school and have found out the hard way everyone has such a different way of "How To". My main concern is my horses mind....will this take his spirit away.....

This is my 5th horse in 4 years for I was sold horses that where injuried with out me knowing to ones that where ok 1st year but then got barn sour and threw a fit and I couldn't seem to correct the sitution with coinfedence. One I gave to a trainer so no one like myself who thought they new about horses would get hurt. 

My Arab and I just clicked and I never knew how smart they where and he has taught me so much ...good that is ....I made so many mistake with choices I made theses past years of believing in what one was saying. Is this going to take the spirit out of my horse from 2 trainers/ (previous owner)who my horse is familiar with to one of the best in the states. 

I know..I could ask him that but he's such a busy man and it will be a few weeks before I can talk with him. I was hoping for some opinions now to ease my mind since this all went down this morning. I just joined this group to so I could post this...TY"


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Frankly it sounds like your horse was tormented, almost tortured. I've heard some terrible things about Arabian show horse trainers. Are you sure the guy you are sending him to is any different than these awful people?


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## LilyandPistol (Dec 2, 2014)

WhattaTroublemaker said:


> Almost seems to me that these "trainers" are NOT what they seem to be. If a horse gets WORSE at the trainers it is not the trainer for you. Go with your gut and screw what they think. Especially if the change is as drastic as you say.


This.^


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## LilyandPistol (Dec 2, 2014)

Avna said:


> Frankly it sounds like your horse was tormented, almost tortured. I've heard some terrible things about Arabian show horse trainers. Are you sure the guy you are sending him to is any different than these awful people?


Yeah, that was my thoughts too, especially when she mentioned hair being rubbed off (or something if the sort, I forget). This is why I have learned to like training my own horses. There are just too many people I don't trust with them.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Oh I read it. I'm just cross eyed with a head ache now. Maybe mods can edit it with paragraphs?

Anyways I feel badly for you and your horse, but for any horse, esp an Arab that has been mishandled the WORST thing you can do is keep on pushing!! She said "gentle hands" but then she puts him in draw reins? I'm not surprised he started rearing.

You shouldn't be focused on head set and big shows, just have fun and move up slowly. I don't know anything about the new trainer, but I wouldn't give him back to the old one, nor would I give him back to the previous owner. She sounds caring and talented but inexperienced.


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

I think sending him to a new trainer is an excellent idea. However i don't think your horse needs a show trainer at this stage. I'm not sure what his set up is like but if he is away a lot at shows, plus many (but not all) show barns have lots of stabling and little turn out it might not be the best thing. Maybe have a look around and get a well regarded basic trainer with big paddocks, calm lifestyle and then get them to work with your horse, and then you, for a while. Shows can come later. 

Going through 4 horses in 4 years... I don't want to be rude but that can be a sign something isn't going great. Whether it is the choice of horses (do you have a regular instructor assisting you?) or the ongoing management of challenging behaviour perhaps that's something you can address?

If you can get this horse back to a good base line (ie trainer can take it on trails, arena etc) then you can look at getting a good instructor to work with you to train you and your horse.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I think you need to forget showing and just get this horse back to trusting his rider's hands. I think he has had so much pressure put on him to be 'show perfect', that he has been what I have always called 'blown up'. 

Horses do not forget anything. I think elephants have very little on them in the memory department. Horses that have been properly trained can go 10 years not being ridden a single time. This has happened with us many times when a well trained mare was used for breeding for 5 or 10 years. They were brought in, played around with for 30 minutes , saddled and rode off exactly like they did 10 years ago. 

I have sold horses and had a person call me 10 years later to ask if the horse had ever been shown. This happened a couple of years ago. A man bought a mare at a sale that had come up 'open' after being bred. He liked her looks and thought he would see if she rode. She rode like a very well trained horse so he tracked us down from her papers. I had to think a long time trying to figure out what horse she was. He said he was going to use her for an open show mount for his granddaughter. This is just not unusual if a horse is really trained right.

Back to your horse -- while your horse may not have forgotten anything, enough crap has happened to him that he has fought back and pretty much 'lost his mind'. He is in a constant state of 'reacting'. Horses cannot respond or do anything positive when their brains are in a 'reactive mode'. Horses have to be relaxed enough and feel safe enough for their mind to be in a 'responsive mode'. They are in one or the other. Responsive horses listen and learn. Reactive horse just fight and react.

Have you heard or seen the concept of working a horse until it licks it's lips and drops its head? Well, those are just 'signs' that a horse is no longer 'reactive'. Your horse has been so 'over-trained' and has had so much pressure put on him that he is in a constant state of fear and has become totally reactive. More show training will only 'blow him up' worse. His mind can't take that now.

What I would suggest is to find a local trainer that can just 'ride' him quietly, put NO pressure on him and see if his mind will come back to being responsive and not so reactive. If you find a local trainer, you can ride with that person and you can learn how to make him ride 'honest', not let him get spoiled like your previous horses did and just learn good horsemanship skills. 

Many people are taught how to push the buttons on a push-button show horse and are never taught how to just ride and handle horses. You need to learn how to just plain ride and handle horses. Until you know how to get a horse to go north that really wants to go south, you will always have horses get herd-bound or barn-sour. Until you learn how to get an anxious or fearful horse back to responding and thinking, you will always do the wrong thing when a horse get fearful. Until you learn how to 'get out a horse's mouth' when he needs you to just get 'into his brain' instead, you will always have to have a horse live at a trainer's house so that the trainer can keep him 'tuned up' for you to just have to get on and 'push the buttons'. 

Find a local trainer. Tell him your horse has been 'blown up' with too much pressure and show training. Tell him you want him to get the horse to settle down and relax and just trust his rider. I would keep him out of an arena for a good while and maybe just end his rides there when he is completely relaxed. I would 'head to the hills' with him and just forget showing for a while.

Remember -- some blown up show horses come back and some don't. He still remembers everything, but now he associates it all with waaay too much pressure and becomes reactive. No one can 'punish' him back to what he was.

If you are only interested in showing, you may need to sell him to a recreational rider or an endurance rider and start all over with a new show horse. This is why many people need a new show horse every year.


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

Cherie said:


> I think you need to forget showing and just get this horse back to trusting his rider's hands. I think he has had so much pressure put on him to be 'show perfect', that he has been what I have always called 'blown up'.
> ...


I have known this state of mind to be called having gone berserk. 

Only have experience with maybe 35-40 horses myself. After the death of my mare, Irish. I was offered the opportunity to work with Zeus, a beautiful, well built with great bone, black King bred QH who had gone berserk from extensive training/showing as a 2 year old. 

Took months of patient persistence. He had a halter on to begin, never to be removed (unknown to me). After a while I would change it to my rope halter for working with him, then leave him unhaltered in his stall.

The BO's then would have to come to me to get his regular halter back on! 

In the beginning, they offered him to me for free, with no papers. By then I had bought a couple of lesson horses and could not afford a project horse. Over time the price went up (to me only) as they saw the relationship we were forming. 

When he was working well on-line, and mannerly in-hand. Picking feet not tied, backing up with no pressure, practicing trailer loading. Mrs.BO asked me to show her how I was doing these things with him. I did.

They began bringing in young men to try to finish him quickly, bronc him out and all. He dumped them all, one 'rider' got a broken arm out of it, but he remained calm with me, although I was not up to the point of throwing a leg over him yet.

Then one day they used my methods, loaded him up, and got rid of him, took him to a kill buyer. Mrs. BO said she showed him how he would lead and back up with no pressure, said he told her he would work with him some to see if he could get him to come around.

This was an old school Morgan horse show barn, I was very out of place there.


I was so disappointed. Wish I could have kept him for my own.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

What Cherie said!

Bring him home. Let him relax. Make a ride a pleasure for both of you. Let him work off cues without a show ring head set. Mosey down a trail. Take the stress away. If you want to continue showing at the bigger Arab shows this may not be the horse for you.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I agree with Cherie too. I'd go for a nice, local trainer that will treat the horse gently and build trust again. He may remember the poor treatment, but hopefully over time will only associate it with certain people and possibly certain tools (sharp bits, draw reins). If this is the case you may be able to use him normally yourself. 

Why many people dislike Arabs is because many breeds will shut down and get quiet in response to pain and rough treatment but Arabs will often protest loudly or dangerously. Your horse was almost certainly subjected to being worked with his head tied down and attempts were made to force him into a "frame" that made him claustrophobic. It sounds like the twisted snaffle and/or other bit was used harshly and caused him pain. Now the horse is frightened of pain and is just waiting to be yanked on and jerked on or tied up.

An Arab trainer I know recently sold her mare as a brood mare because she finally got her to work well on the lunge line with tie downs and draw reins, but when she took all these restraining straps off the horse frightened her. So she couldn't ride the horse unless the horse felt imprisoned enough to shut down. She'd only get on with the draw reins on, so she couldn't take video to sell the horse. The Saddlebreds she trains seem to tolerate this treatment better than some of the Arabs. In her view it was the horse's fault, the horse was unhinged so even though she is a wonderful trainer the horse was not trainable. 
Her horse, in my view was a perfectly normal Arabian reacting to painful and unpredictable treatment by being scared, resistant and trying different ways to escape. Horses avoid pain and pressure. Some pressure can be used when training reactive horses, but it can't be too strong and must be removed with the right timing so the horse understands the reward. 

In my experience, Arabs can be just a little more claustrophobic than other horses. If you trap them and then cause pain or scare them, they often panic and try to run or fight their way out. It's too bad to take a trusting horse and have them now waiting and watching for danger and pain to come from the humans handling them.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I too have had horses that have blown their brains, before you can ask them to compete you have to get them to just enjoy being ridden and if things are being demanded of them then they will not relax. 

Cherie, as usual, says it all.


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## MrsKD14 (Dec 11, 2015)

I agree with everyone saying this horse seems like he needs time to just be a horse. Anything I could contribute has been said in above posts. 

I hate that you are in this predicament, but when was the last time the horse had "fun" while working with a human? It sounds like he is getting a lot of work that doesn't have much release from work. The most successful show people I know (college team friends) take their horses down a trail fairly often on a big loose rein without any pressure bc it's good for their minds. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

The problem comes when people have a well-trained horse that is 'show-ready'. Many owners and many show trainers are looking for that horse that can become a National or World Champion. So they put more and more pressure on the 'good' horse to become a 'great' Champion. Some can take that amount of pressure and some cannot.

They get soooo much time and money invested that they try to get just a 'little' more out of the horses to show and WIN a little more at whatever level they are showing at.

If you train for a long time like both Linda and I have, you will see 'blown up' jumpers, reiners, cutting horses, roping horse, barrel horses and on and on and on. All of them are horses that were pushed a little to hard and asked for a little too much.

Sometime the owner does not even realize how much pressure a horse is having to endure because the trainer has decided that their horse is going to make them famous or as least going to be their best show horse on the road that show season. 

When you start showing at Futurities and age-limited events. you see even more of this because there is a 'deadline'. 

The horses that can take that much pressure and 'want' to be really great show horses will be around for years after the aged events. A lot more will be scratched just before the first big event or they will show poorly in it and that will be the last you see of them.

I was always very good at bringing these blown up horses back to sanity. I used to cruise the barns at the NRHA Futurity and ask trainers if they had any 'flunk-outs' that had had 2 years of training and were not going to take the pressure. I bought a lot of good horses back then for $.10 on the $1.00 or less and gave them a new occupation. I was able to capitalize on all of that 'free' training I got. A few of these horses came back and made lower level reiners, but many made really good cowhorses, sorting horses and ranch horses (if they were big enough).


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

My late boss had a very good jump racehorse. By four he had won three good hurdle races. At four he wasn't so keen, refused to go on the gallops, refused to start in races. 
By five he was warned off - if he was entered in a race and didn't start he would never be allowed to race again. 

He was home for the summer rest and my job was to get him fit before going back into race training. 
Well, he was something else! Nice looking horse, a bit sour in the stable but riding him was something else! 
We had to do a lot of our riding in the roads and he was not traffic proof. I found myself in ditches, through hedges sideways, he reared, ran backwards at a rate of knots and was het up to ride, cantering sideways whilst other horses were trotting. 

On our way back from a ride my workmates had dismounted to open a heavy gate. She had her arm through her horse's reins so she could use both hands and for some reason her horse pulled away and she let him go. 
He took off around the field and before I knew it my horse was following, he bucked like a bronc but luck was on my side and I stayed on top. When I stopped the loose horse did too and when Jan walked up I was laughing. I flicked my horse across the neck and told him he had to do better! 

We decided to keep him out of racing for that season and to have him go Fox Hunting, first time out everyone moved off and I spent about twenty minutes going backwards round and round a field. He then went forward like it was nothing. 
He did this every time the field moved off.

Usually with following hounds horses get very excited and keen but he didn't want to know. 

At no point did I ever get angry with him, I just treated it as if it was a 'normal' reaction. I never allowed myself to get frustrated either. 

Then one boring day with no scent for hounds to follow, another girl suggested that we had a 'play' over some cross country fences on the land we were on. 
She set off and I followed. That horse had only ever jumped brush fences but here he was popping over ditches, rails with bounces, a devils **** and a bank as if he had been schooled over them every day of his life.

From that day on he was a different horse, he loved Fox Hunting. I didn't know the area very well and one day came down a steepish hill jumping three big hedges with drop landings, thinking to myself "This is one heck of a good horse." 

We checked soon after and two or three people came and asked if I had jumped all three hedges, I admitted I had. They told me I had won the bet made by a doctor who had taken a nasty fall at one of them and had bet that no one could jump all three without falling! 
I didn't know about the bet or the falls that had been taken there but did collect £100 from the Doctor. 

The following year the horse went back to the same race trainer and when I saw him there I knew he had reverted. He was refusing to go on the gallops. I persuaded my boss to send him to a small just starting out trainer where he settled and went on to race for three seasons winning several steeplechases.

We had hopes for him in top races but unfortunately out in the field he got kicked and busted his shoulder which never healed. 

Horses like him and yours, need empathy not more mind blowing training.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I would never consider those you used as 'trainers' Forcing ahead set, tot he point esp, where physical evidence shows them doing so, will have a horse bolt and rear out of fear of pain in his mouth
Any trainer worth an oz of salt knows you never force ahead set, but instead work on correct movement from behind, then just driving the horse up into that bit barrier you have, and releasing when the horse gives.Never pulling on a mouth, never jerking on a mouth, never trying to force ahead set with artificial gadgets
Sounds like you bought a decent horse that has been ruined by improper training, and needs to be able to trust his rider's hands again
Using a correctional bit, a twisted wire, as bandaids to try and compensate for poor bit use, is not the answer.
Negative association with abit, will now need to be un done
While I agree that pushing a horse, to be 'show perfect' can blow a horse's mind, I also see this problem is way beyond that.
I know of no trainer that I respect,, who would force ahead set like that, or who even would concentrate on the wrong end of the horse
When a horse has been allowed to learn correct movement, ridden with more legs than hands, ridden so he becomes soft in his entire body, ridden by a rider who has feel in his hands, that head set pretty much developes on it's own, as the horse relaxes, trusting rider hands, and only might need a small tweet to have it become the refined finishing touch of the entire package
I agree on forgetting to show this horse at the moment. The horse just needs to be ridden out, learning to trust a rider's hands and to relax.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Cherie said:


> The problem comes when people have a well-trained horse that is 'show-ready'. Many owners and many show trainers are looking for that horse that can become a National or World Champion. So they put more and more pressure on the 'good' horse to become a 'great' Champion. Some can take that amount of pressure and some cannot.
> 
> They get soooo much time and money invested that they try to get just a 'little' more out of the horses to show and WIN a little more at whatever level they are showing at.
> 
> ...


I totally agree that many horses, expected to be competitive, at upper end, are often pushed beyond a certain point, sot hat their mind is blown, or body is physically damaged
However, there is more at work here, then a horse merely being pushed
It sounds like a horse that was never really, 'finished', far as being competitive at an Arabian breed show, and did okay, shown more open, where horses don't need to move in a certain frame
THus, this horse had to most likely , learn to go other then he had been taught to , or allowed to go, for along time
Unfortunately, the 'trainer' the horse was sent to, in order to make this horse competitive on the Arabian circuit, tried to use force , versus gradual correct training, to teach the horse to move in frame
The horse was never shown at the breed circuit, to the point that his mind was blown through big expectations, in a time frame.
He was simply sent to idiot trainers, who , instead of going back and teaching the horse fundamentals in correct movement, that they would just help a head set fall into place, tried to force one, by any means, and that is the true problem.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Using draw reins, checking a horse back, obviously severely, so he has not just sores on his face, but under his tail, pretty much guarantees you a horse that will try to bolt or rear, simply out of fear. The horse stops thinking, and goes into self preservation mode. 
Whatever trainer you now send this horse to, don't worry about ;show training, about him being an "Arabian trainer" about worrying about that head set, as at the moment, your horse is not even safe to ride, let alone show
If he is sent to any trainer, that trainer has to be able to stay out of his mouth, work on getting his trust back, and just riding that horse out, letting him learn to relax. No tie down, no draw reins, no correction bit-just a plain snaffle, and lots of feel, good confident seat, understanding that you don't control a horse by what is in his mouth, but rather through body control.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

While I agree with everything you say, I take it you have not been around Arabian, Morgan and Saddlebred training barns. That is the norm at all of them I have been around and I have been around quite a few. 

I was barn manager for a big 100 horse training barn for a year. [One of the longest years of my life and the last time I signed a contract.]

About 25 or 30 of the horses in the barn were Saddlebreds, Morgans and Arabians (one National Champion). I had to hide all of my fire extinguishers before I went home at night if they were riding in the indoor. [We all know just how wise that is.] If I did not lock them up, they were all empty in the morning because the SB trainers would use them on the horse's feet as they went by to get more action.

There was nothing they would not do to get more action on a Park horse or gaited horse or more 'headset' on a WP horse. They were not happy until the horse was frothing at the mouth (wired shut) with his chin touching his chest. I have picked up weighted romal reins that weighed more than 20 pounds to make a horse carry a vertical face on a loose rein. 

If you ever watched Saddle Seat trainers (especially Park and Gaited trainers), you would see that most of them put very little leg on a horse and use almost no bend at any time. Only a whip is used to send a horse more forward. It is a different world.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Thanks, Cheri, and I'm sure what you say is true, but I did not wish to appear to be bashing Arabian trainers, and I think we both know many of those gaited horses are trained by some pretty extreme measures, and not just Big Lick TW
Only Arabian and Morgan trainers that I know pretty well, are a husband and wife team, with the husband training Arabian reiners and the wife English and western pl

I liked what I saw, the way they rode their horses, at venues, where I showed with them, like the Alberta hORSE improvement evaluation show, with those horses appearing happy, but I know that is not the norm, as I have also seen Arabian halter horses whipped in the warm up ring ( of course, not when a huge crowd is there ), to get that animated' fire breathing ' look for showing in hand
I have seen Saddleseat horses, and Arabians, mainly ridden off of hands, with legs way off the horse, so how can they possibly be trained to give lightly to abit, using legs to drive them up?
I would send this horse to just a good rider, with good hands, that can ride the horse out, doing a job, like checking cattle, letting the horse relax. Right now that horse is 'burned', far as anyone asking that horse to respond softly to a bit, work in frame, trusting hands on those reins


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## AlKhamsa (Feb 16, 2016)

Heart going out to OP, in your attempt to have a professional correct something that undesirable. Poor you, Poor horse. Perhaps you can reconnect with your horse, earn back his trust and hopefully find a suitable trainer. Perhaps the head throwing is indicative of something wrong...a sore in the mouth or an abscessed tooth. Perhaps your vet could check things out before you send him off to another trainer.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Did not read all but you didn't say anything about getting proper dental and physical care, I was also a bit taken back by 25 classes in 2 days? Seems like too many mentally if not physically


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I spent a year looking at Arabians and part breds at different barns with top trainers who consistently win at the big shows, I had a winter riding at one so I could learn the US way of showing Arabians and then decided it was not for me and nothing at all like the UK Arabian showing I'd enjoyed
The rail horses are trained to have a fixed headset by creating muscle memory and they put them in sharp bits if they show any inclination to work in real contact. They don't seem to have any real clue what the bit is in their mouth for and if they do decide to bolt off they don't know how to give to the pressure so either fight you or suck behind it/get above it to evade it
This horse needs to be sent somewhere to be properly broken and schooled - either by an Arabian trainer who also works with Arabians that do dressage or something that requires a degree of collection and ability to work off the rail or sent to a non Arabian trainer that can do that


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## BearPony (Jan 9, 2013)

You've gotten lots of good advice - particularly with regards to finding a good local trainer (of whatever discipline - doesn't necessarily need to be an Arab show trainer) who will take the horse back to basics in a snaffle and essentially restart him from the beginning to build his confidence again.

You might want to get him checked out by a vet before he starts with the new trainer. While the harsh handling and training has certainly not done him any favors, it is also possible that the rearing, etc. started as a response to some type of physical pain and I would want to rule out and physical pain as well before trying to rehab this horse.

You are being a good advocate for your horse making this change. It can be tough to go against what the "professionals" advise you to do, especially if you are coming back to horses after a break.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

I'd keep this horse home for a few months and give his mind and body a break. In the meantime look for someone you both can work with.


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## alsosusieq2 (Apr 30, 2016)

Admittedly, I didn't read your entire post. Without paragraphs it's a bit hard.

Taking him to another trainer will not harm him one bit. I wouldn't keep him with one that you were having problems with.

I'm not certain what's causing him to throw his head. Arabians are extremely interesting, intelligent and sensitive horses. Don't always think though that a top notch show trainer is going to be what you want. Their agenda is a bit different in some ways, mostly geared to winning at any cost. It comes with the territory.

Consider getting him out of a severe bit altogether. It may be the reason he's throwing his head. Just a thought, mind you. 

I wish you the best of luck!


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