# Uniquely coloured clydesdale



## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

Found this ad. I have a couple guesses as to what genes are present, but I was wondering what genes you guys see? And what pattern she is... I mean tobiano, overo, tovero... or possibly frame


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

Unique Colored Clyde Mare


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## Jake and Dai (Aug 15, 2008)

What ad? There's no link. Can you share it? 

Ahhhh posting at the same time! Thanks Nokota!


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

Jake and Dai said:


> What ad? There's no link. Can you share it?


lol sorry i forgot to ad it when i was posting. and yeah i added the link sorry lol

Unique Colored Clyde Mare


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I see sabino. Possibly splash as well...maybe, but definitely sabino.

Granted, I'm no Clydie expert, but I don't think they come in tobiano if they are purebred.


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

smrobs said:


> I see sabino. Possibly splash as well...maybe, but definitely sabino.
> 
> Granted, I'm no Clydie expert, but I don't think they come in tobiano if they are purebred.


Me neither on the clydesdale part... it is possible she could be 3/4 clyde though


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Well, they claim she is registered and I'm unsure if the registering body accepts crosses.


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## Nightside (Nov 11, 2012)

I don't care what she is, I would murder a village to take her home!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

No tobiano there.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Nightside, while you are getting her can you pick this one up for me VOLKMAR » RAINBOW VALLEY RIDING CENTER :lol:


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## Nightside (Nov 11, 2012)

Haha, sure! It is a darn good thing these horse classified sites don't send out credit cards, I'd be in debt fast!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SunnyMeadeFarm (Sep 3, 2012)

I think she could just be a very extensive Sabino.


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

SunnyMeadeFarm said:


> I think she could just be a very extensive Sabino.


Yeah that's what I'm thinking now. Chillaa, what do you think she is?


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

Nightside, while you're picking up the horses, could you also pick this one up for me? I like his movement and LOVE his colour
ILLUSION » RAINBOW VALLEY RIDING CENTER


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## Freyannia (Jan 24, 2013)

Looks like splash, Sabino and possibly dominant white to me. Deffo not pinto patterned. Xx
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Freyannia said:


> Looks like splash, Sabino and possibly dominant white to me. Deffo not pinto patterned. Xx
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


ALL three of those are classed as pinto patterns though.


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## Freyannia (Jan 24, 2013)

Thanks for the correction... I am by no means an expert and am learning myself 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## caljane (Feb 7, 2009)

She doesn't look like an uncommon color for a Clydesdale to me. Just because Budweiser uses only Clydesdales with blaze faces and four stockings doesn't mean that this is the breed description  Many Clydesdales have extensive overo pattern, usually sabino based.


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## PonyPainter (Aug 25, 2012)

She's Sabino


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## Nightside (Nov 11, 2012)

I wouldn't say many come in that loud of a pattern. I've seen a lot of ads for clydes for sale lately and most have belly splashes or Max sabino, middle ground is hard to find!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

Nightside said:


> I wouldn't say many come in that loud of a pattern. I've seen a lot of ads for clydes for sale lately and most have belly splashes or Max sabino, middle ground is hard to find!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


haha i agree


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## MissColors (Jul 17, 2011)

Lol my first thought was where are her ears??? Lol they blend in so well to her position. ****. She is very pretty though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Clydesdales are a Scottish breed and none of those colour names exist in Britain!!!!
Black & white = piebald and any other colour and white = skewbald
She's roan and white so would be a skewbald in that sense, roan colours do exist in Clydes and some can have a lot more white splashes than others
She's lovely btw


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

_Looks like a Clyde mare who was blessed with lots of white. I've seen a number of others with this much white at shows or sales. I personally wouldn't consider her uniquely coloured...just a lot more flashy._

_(I cannot comment on what genes may have had an effect on this though. Genes is wayyyy beyond me. LOL)_


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## Freyannia (Jan 24, 2013)

caljane said:


> She doesn't look like an uncommon color for a Clydesdale to me. Just because Budweiser uses only Clydesdales with blaze faces and four stockings doesn't mean that this is the breed description  Many Clydesdales have extensive overo pattern, usually sabino based.


Just thought I would compare with my Clydie and his full brother from Cumbrian Clydesdales with Sabino and splash xx


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

_Taken from Wikipedia. Yes, I realize not the best source, but couldn't find the info I wanted on the Clyde registry site._

"Clydesdales are usually bay in colour, but roan, black, grey and chestnut also occur. Most have white markings, including white on the face, feet, legs and occasional body spotting (generally on the lower belly). They also have extensive feathering on their lower legs.[1] Roaning, body spotting and extensive white markings are thought to be the result of sabino genetics. Some Clydesdale breeders want white face and leg markings without the spotting on the body. To attempt getting the ideal set of markings, they often breed horses with only one white leg to horses with four white legs and sabino roaning on their bodies. On average, the result is a foal with the desired amount of white markings.[6] Clydesdales do not have the SB1 (Sabino 1) gene responsible for causing sabino expressions in many other breeds, and researchers theorise that there are several other genes responsible for these patterns.[7] Many buyers pay a premium for bay and black horses, especially those with four white legs and white facial markings. Specific colours are often preferred over other physical traits, and some buyers will even choose horses with soundness problems if they have the desired colour and markings. Roan horses are not preferred by buyers, despite one draught breed writer theorizing that they are needed in order to keep the desired coat colours and texture.[8] Breed associations, however, state that there are no bad colours, and that horses with roaning and body spots are increasingly accepted.[9]"
Clydesdale horse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

_As someone said above, not all horses will look like the Bud horses, and this is also mentioned in the wiki article..._

_"_The Budweiser breeding program, with its strict standards of colour and conformation, have influenced the look of the breed in the United States to the point that many people believe that Clydesdales are always bay with white markings.[1"


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

jaydee said:


> Clydesdales are a Scottish breed and none of those colour names exist in Britain!!!!
> Black & white = piebald and any other colour and white = skewbald
> She's roan and white so would be a skewbald in that sense, roan colours do exist in Clydes and some can have a lot more white splashes than others
> She's lovely btw


The thing is, calling it "roan" doesn't make it roan. Clydedales do NOT carry the "roan" gene, they have something else causing a roan mimic effect. The jury is still out as to if it is being caused by sabino or dominant white, but we know it is definitely not classic roan.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Chiilaa said:


> The thing is, calling it "roan" doesn't make it roan. Clydedales do NOT carry the "roan" gene, they have something else causing a roan mimic effect. The jury is still out as to if it is being caused by sabino or dominant white, but we know it is definitely not classic roan.


You are confusing the genetic roan with the commonly (and historically)used description of roan as a solid colour with flecks of white hair mixed in with it and this is very common in Clydes and has always been so. Even the US Clyde guidelines state it as a colour for the breed. 
In the UK we attach the word roan to a colour - blue roan, strawberry roan, bay roan etc
Clydesdale Breeders of the USA - Clydesdale 101 - FAQ's


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Considering this is the "Horse Color and Genetics" forum Chiilaa is correct in pointing out that they are not genetically "true roan" along with the other information that she provided.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

NdAppy said:


> Considering this is the "Horse Color and Genetics" forum Chiilaa is correct in pointing out that they are not genetically "true roan" along with the other information that she provided.


 I didnt say that genetically true roan was incorrect - but Horse Colour is also included in that title and in the UK where the breed originates from the colour would be described as roan and white or skewbald roan and white - as a colour description its recognised by the various UK breed society's
I was stating what colour that horse would be described as in the UK and the US Clydesdale society runs in line with the UK one in terms of colour description. The roan colour in the UK clydes is pretty common - the predominate colour in the US has been ruled by the Budweiser horses as its what they demand


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

LOL, another thread for a little trans Atlantic tolerance, we do understand that us Brits are light years behind when it comes to colour, we all perfectly understand this



> Black & white = piebald and any other colour and white = skewbald
> She's roan and white so would be a skewbald in that sense, roan colours do exist in Clydes and some can have a lot more white splashes than others


to be true

But yes we also understand that it maybe not correct or scientific, HOWEVER, they are a Scottish breed and the people there totally understand the description. 

Remember folks this is a multicultural board and we must try and rub along with all our beautiful colloquial quirks:wink:


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

*shrugs* If you don't want to know what the genes are that are causing the coloration on the horses why are you over here posting in the colors and genetics section? Honestly, just because a color is called something else somewhere doesn't negate the fact of what the genetics say...


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

NdAppy said:


> *shrugs* If you don't want to know what the genes are that are causing the coloration on the horses why are you over here posting in the colors and genetics section? Honestly, just because a color is called something else somewhere doesn't negate the fact of what the genetics say...


 Why so rude?
The colour of this horse is common amongst UK Clydesdales - if a horse can only have the 'roan' gene to be called a roan then it cant be correct to say that Clydes cant carry the roan gene as they evidently come in that colour - or are you saying that some roans are genetic and some arent?
If thats the case then this horses colour may have nothing to do with genes and all to do with its breed characteristics - oh and arent they also genetic?
You cant possible tell what the colour genes are anyway from looking at a photograph so the whole thing is irrelevant really.
Why try to create an argument and bad feeling from something so petty?


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

It *is* correct to say as they do not carry roan. They do not test to carry the roan testable so they do not have it. They have either sabino or dominant white. Not true roan.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

NdAppy said:


> *shrugs* If you don't want to know what the genes are that are causing the coloration on the horses why are you over here posting in the colors and genetics section? Honestly, just because a color is called something else somewhere doesn't negate the fact of what the genetics say...


Nobody said that they didn't want to know or expand their education, ALL we are saying is that the term is in common usage, and well understood by people from the UK.


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## caljane (Feb 7, 2009)

NdAppy said:


> It *is* correct to say as they do not carry roan. They do not test to carry the roan testable so they do not have it. They have either sabino or dominant white. Not true roan.


They do not carry the "roan" as accepted wording in the US. Now, in England they certainly do carry "roan" - as it is understood there as a color expression without the necessity to carry a certain gene. We (Americans) can not claim a word for our own and do not allow it to be used somewhere else in a different sense!

Just call it "roaning caused but a gene other than the US-roan-gene" :wink:


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

Golden Horse said:


> LOL, another thread for a little trans Atlantic tolerance, we do understand that us Brits are light years behind when it comes to colour, we all perfectly understand this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bit like the Irish would have a fit if they couldn't call some of their connemaras duns :lol:


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

NdAppy said:


> It *is* correct to say as they do not carry roan. They do not test to carry the roan testable so they do not have it. They have either sabino or dominant white. Not true roan.


They have already been proven to not carry sabino 1 (by testing) and they could not possibly be DW as they dont in any way fit the requirements for that type.
I am not actually aware that there even is a roan gene as the genetic colours that I'm familiar with are. 
Chestnut & Black (E)
Bay (A)
Tobiano (TO)
Sabino 1 (SB1_
Overo (O)
Dominant White (W)
Grey (G)
Cream Dilution (CR)
Silver Dilution (Z)
Appaloosa (LP)
Maybe the US has a different list of genetic colours?
I dont think any other sabino genetic type has been established yet
If you wanted to opt for any one of these in the UK type breeds that we call roan then (G) would be most likely as roan horses usually have a tendency to get lighter as they age and I've seen blue roans that started out almost black be light grey when they reached their teens. If they were entered into their breed society or passport as blue roan then they would remain as that all their life.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Horse Tests

With this being the testable roan gene which is true/classic roan - Roan

So yes there IS a roan gene and it IS testable. There are also MULTIPLE strains of both dominant white and sabino that have no current tests, just like rabicano does not have a test.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

Local colloquial terms are certainly used by many breed organizations and in many parts of the World. Most of these terms are still used in many places as they predated actual genetic testing. I do not know if these other countries even have much genetic testing available.

I can remember when Go Man Go was registered 'roan'. Obviously, he would not be a roan today.

My AQHA sorrel stallion carries a Rabicano gene. He has roan throughout but a LOT on his ribs and has a '**** tail'. I am not aware if it is tested for yet or not, but 30 years ago, he would have been registered roan. I bred and raised him and registered him 'sorrel with roan hairs throughout' on his Registration Certificate. He has sired 2 foals with white running up onto their stifles and one with a big belly spot. Many of his foals have a '**** tail' and a lot of roan hair on their bodies. Now, they are all 'sorrel with roan hair throughout'.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

NdAppy said:


> Horse Tests
> 
> With this being the testable roan gene which is true/classic roan - Roan
> 
> So yes there IS a roan gene and it IS testable. There are also MULTIPLE strains of both dominant white and sabino that have no current tests, just like rabicano does not have a test.


 I already looked at that site and though it recognises a dominant gene - ie - a roan horse will usually produce a roan horse (as is the case with roan coloured Clydes) *it hasnt yet recognised the specific mutation that causes the roan colour so there is no direct test for the gene. *
According to that report DNA markers have been identified in Paints and Quarter Horses associated with roan colouring but it doesnt mention if any other breeds have even been tested yet.
Until more tests have been done to identify other strains of White and Sabino they cant be ruled out or accepted
There have been many incorrect articles published on the internet so its not always easy to know which are to be believed
The UK does have its own genetic testing facilities but mostly breeders/owners are only interested in genetic disorders - mainly I suppose because we are happy with our traditional colour descriptions as it really makes no difference to the quality of the horse
www.horsedna.co.uk/


http://www.horsedna.co.uk/


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

jaydee said:


> Why so rude?
> The colour of this horse is common amongst UK Clydesdales - if a horse can only have the 'roan' gene to be called a roan then it cant be correct to say that Clydes cant carry the roan gene as they evidently come in that colour - or are you saying that some roans are genetic and some arent?
> If thats the case then this horses colour may have nothing to do with genes and all to do with its breed characteristics - oh and arent they also genetic?
> You cant possible tell what the colour genes are anyway from looking at a photograph so the whole thing is irrelevant really.
> Why try to create an argument and bad feeling from something so petty?


Actually... I could be wrong on this, but to me that looks like a sabino. So did the horse that you showed under saddle. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong, I'm just saying that's what I see


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Nokotaheaven said:


> Actually... I could be wrong on this, but to me that looks like a sabino. So did the horse that you showed under saddle. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong, I'm just saying that's what I see


What we see and what is actual aren't the same thing. I made the comment per many horses that are described as roan and look like roan are actually grey - one way to verify this is that roans do not lighten with age whereas a grey does, also the dappling you see on greys has the larger light circle inside the dark ring but in roans that often have a dappled appearance its the other way around.
He may look like sabino but according to the tests done on Clydes they do not test positive for this gene - however as already said so far only the sabino1 gene has been identified for testing purposes so there may be more sitting there waiting for discovery - funding is the main issue for lack of progress in colour genetics as many people dont regard breeding for a specific colour as important - in fact many see it as detrimental to the more important 'breeding for conformation and performance' criteria and its people paying for tests and donations etc that further scientific work like this.


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

jaydee said:


> What we see and what is actual aren't the same thing. I made the comment per many horses that are described as roan and look like roan are actually grey - one way to verify this is that roans do not lighten with age whereas a grey does, also the dappling you see on greys has the larger light circle inside the dark ring but in roans that often have a dappled appearance its the other way around.
> He may look like sabino but according to the tests done on Clydes they do not test positive for this gene - however as already said so far only the sabino1 gene has been identified for testing purposes so there may be more sitting there waiting for discovery - funding is the main issue for lack of progress in colour genetics as many people dont regard breeding for a specific colour as important - in fact many see it as detrimental to the more important 'breeding for conformation and performance' criteria and its people paying for tests and donations etc that further scientific work like this.


I know it's not grey, but it doesn't strike me as roan either


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Its a shame that the ad has now been removed as we could have all clubbed together and asked for some samples to send off for testing!!!


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

Yes!


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

Actually here we go
ALFIE (sold) » RAINBOW VALLEY RIDING CENTER


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