# Couldn't decide what colour to come out??



## Suz (May 10, 2012)

Another


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

He looks chestnut to me, being darkened by sooty. His legs get lighter just before the hoof, a very clear signal to me that he is chestnut.


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## Suz (May 10, 2012)

He has black points...


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## Suz (May 10, 2012)

Didn't think chestnuts had black points or black manes?


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

I can see in the last photo that his black points don't continue to the hoof, instead it gets lighter again. That is a chestnut trait. And yes, chestnuts can have black in their mane or tail, as I said, sooty can do all sorts of funky things.


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## Suz (May 10, 2012)

... It doesn't... it just looks like it in the photo.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

If the photos are deceptive, then why are you using them for us to tell you his colour? Try some better photos - mid afternoon sunlight, maybe overcast day if possible, relatively minimal shadowing, in focus.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

I second the chestnut vote. The second picture is the closest to looking anything other, but it's clear in the others that he is certainly chestnut. And very pretty.

But most definitely NOT bay and not silver.


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

Looks chestnut.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Jumping on the chestnut bandwagon here - I understand you being confused by the darkening of his points, but that does not make him bay...chestnut is a color with a lot of variations w/in it from very dark to very light and many points in between.


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## Reno Bay (Jul 8, 2012)

I personally can't see the lightening, but that's probably my eyes or screen resolution. I'm also going to go with chestnut. To my knowledge, flaxen only changes red hair. Black-based horses, such as bays, can't be flaxen. If your horse _was_ bay, I would say he was extremely sunbleached...but that's a big stretch. I've never seen bleaching that severe.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Need better pictures of your horse the glaring sun makes it hard to see him. Im gonna say chesnut aswell. Here is my friends sooty Chesnut to compare your horse to.
























_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheLastUnicorn (Jun 11, 2010)

If he is pb TB... he cannot be Silver anyhow, pretty positive it has never been found in the breed. 

I think he looks like a pretty typical sooty chestnut to me.


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## Suz (May 10, 2012)

Oh do chestnuts have black manes and tails???? thought chestnuts had similar coloured mains and tails to their body??? Im confused then guys... they are very distinctive black points, again though chestnuts if anything were lighter at the hocks not almost black??? Just asking if hes chestnut to explain those for me, cos they dont fit in. cheers


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## Suz (May 10, 2012)

I will take some close up photos now


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## Suz (May 10, 2012)

Hey, he doesn't really look much like that horse... this is the closest photo of a horse that ive found to look like him...
http://www.google.com.au/imgres?q=s...w=184&start=0&ndsp=13&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:0,i:95


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## Suz (May 10, 2012)

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-colors-genetics/interesting-read-silver-dilution-141580/ This forum is interesting guys  The second bit here is very interesting. 

'Silver is a gene that does the opposite. It dilutes black, but does not change red hair. Where cream turns red hair yellow, silver turns black hair to a colour somewhere between pale taupe and deep chocolate black. Silver also turns black hair in the mane and tail flaxen.'

"When silver occurs on a clear red bay, the result looks like a combination of bay and chestnut. These horses are often described as chestnut with black legs, or bay with flaxen mane and tail. Close examination shows that the legs are not really black. The colour is closer to chocolate, with the area near the hoof noticeably paler than the rest of the leg. The mane, too, is darker at the roots than might be expected of a flaxen chestnut."


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Suz said:


> Oh do chestnuts have black manes and tails???? thought chestnuts had similar coloured mains and tails to their body??? Im confused then guys... they are very distinctive black points, again though chestnuts if anything were lighter at the hocks not almost black??? Just asking if hes chestnut to explain those for me, cos they dont fit in. cheers


None of your photos show anywhere near a black mane or tail - and those are not true black points from what I see. A chestnut does not have to have a solid/uniformly shaded coat, there can be variances of the shade, sometimes fairly drastic - many colors can somewhat mimic another (ie a chestnut with a coat pattern that appears to mimic bay). The mane and tail are often several shades different than the body hair.


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## Suz (May 10, 2012)

*Face Palm*


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## Reno Bay (Jul 8, 2012)

Chestnuts' legs and long hair (mane and tail) can be darker than their bodies, especially if they have genes causing sooty. Sooty can be displayed differently - distributed throughout the body or concentrated in specific areas, somewhat darker or very dark.

As for silver, if your horse is indeed a purebred Thoroughbred, it cannot possibly be silver. Thoroughbreds do not have the gene that causes silver dapple (neither do they have the gene for dun, to my knowledge).


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Suz said:


> *Face Palm*


You want to think your horse is some fancy speshul color, then fine. I do happen to know that Chiilaa knows what she's talking about when it comes to color, and I'm sure the rest of the fine folks here aren't idiots either.

My horse is plain, boring, typical bay. Your horse does not look bay, and when people talk about their horses with the silver gene, they don't look like your horse either. He's a pretty boy. Why can't people just leave it at that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Suz said:


> *Face Palm*


Why are you so convinced that your horse has to be something he isn't (and can't be, since TBs don't carry the silver gene)? 

I agree with everyone else. He's a chestnut. I don't see the black you're talking about in his mane. Chestnuts can have all sorts of colors in their manes and tails and the sooty gene can darken his points to make them look black.

Sorry you seem disappointed that he isn't some "speshal" color.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Suz said:


> *Face Palm*


Funny, I can imagine a lot of other people in this thread wanting to say the same thing, but instead they wasted their breath actually answering your question(s).....


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Tell me, OP, if you didn't want people to tell you what color they think your horse is (or is not), why say, "Just want to know what you all think?"


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Suz said:


> Oh do chestnuts have black manes and tails???? thought chestnuts had similar coloured mains and tails to their body??? Im confused then guys... they are very distinctive black points, again though chestnuts if anything were lighter at the hocks not almost black??? Just asking if hes chestnut to explain those for me, cos they dont fit in. cheers


What makes Comanche have a black mane and tail is the sooty gene it is also present in his body coat. I just wanted to show you how Comanche's mail tail and legs were dark and he is often mistaken to be bay but he is a sooty sorrel which I'm sure your horse is whether you like it or not


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

You know, OP, the easiest solution would be to go ahead and have your horse tested and see what genes he is (or is not) carrying, which will help you know what colors he can/can't be. It's a readily available option and would answer your questions once and for all.


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## Suz (May 10, 2012)

Just took some photos...
when i got him he had an almost hogged main and i keep a hood on him almost all the time as he gets sun burnt on his face quite easily, so his mane is not sun bleached... The photos don't really bring out the light and dark that well but im sure you get the idea that the mane and tail are a black base colour with almost a flaxen overlay... excuse the grey hairs hes getting on... 
Sorry if ive come across rude... its just frustrating when you are saying something and im looking at the horse going, no, what you're saying isn't him. Ive had him 5 years and still yet to go to an event with a similar coloured horse... We struggle to do any form of paired work as when you stand him next to a chestnut he looks nothing like them and the same with a bay...


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Wait a minute - isn't this the same horse you posted about in this thread several months ago :
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-colors-genetics/anyone-know-colour-my-boy-122950/


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## BarrelracingArabian (Mar 31, 2010)

Op this horsr IS chestnut his legs do not look black they look dark brown and his mane/ tail look flaxen which is a chesnut thing. If you really disagree go get him tested.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Suz (May 10, 2012)

yeah, his colour has changed a whole heap with the seasons... also im not too sure how to find old posts on here... But i was more interested in his breeding then as we were unsure due to the silver in him...


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

There is no silver. I've seen tons of chestnuts/sorrels that look just like that. I think you're grasping at straws trying to have a speshul colored horse when you have a very obvious chestnut with maybe some sooty.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheLastUnicorn (Jun 11, 2010)

Chestnut is a horse which, genetically, is "red"... But it is sneaky in that it can appear many different ways, from almost golden to black. Sometimes the mane and tail are lightened, or darkened by other genes referred to as modifiers.

I thought, from your first post, that your horse is a purebred, registered, TB. If that's true, he CANNOT be Silver as the gene does not exist within the breed. 

Besides that, I don't see true black points in any of the photos of your horse, I see some dark countershading though. 

A friend of mine had a liver chestnut with a flaxen mane and tail... His body and legs were so dark he appeared to be black, and his mane and tail were cream colored... He appeared to be a Silver Black, but couldn't have been because he had two chestnut parents (you cannot get a genetically black horse from two chestnuts)... So there are definitely some tricky chestnuts.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

The new pictures confirm to me even more that he is chestnut.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Suz said:


> yeah, his colour has changed a whole heap with the seasons... also im not too sure how to find old posts on here... But i was more interested in his breeding then as we were unsure due to the silver in him...


It's fairly easy to find your posts - there are a couple of ways. The most direct route for your own posts/threads is to click the "search" tab up above, a drop down will appear and you can choose "view all your posts" and "view all threads started by you" among the options. To find other people's posts you can use the same "search" tab or just click on a members username next to their post and a drop down menu will appear that will allow you to "view profile" or "find more posts by xxxx" You can use the find more posts by option to go straight to their posting history or from their profile you can use the "stats" tab to view posts or threads started by that member. 
I guess my confusion would be that the title of the thread was specfically, "Anyone know the colour of my boy" so I didn't realize you were asking about his breeding.........


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## Reno Bay (Jul 8, 2012)

Until you potentially get him DNA tested, could you settle with the explanation that he is most likely a special, individual shade of sooty chestnut?

And in response to the post linked to before, Thoroughbreds _do_ have dilutions, just not certain ones. There is a breeder in my state who specializes in pinto and diluted Thoroughbreds. They have palominos, cremellos, and buckskins...all of which are dilutions (purebred TBs, not crosses).


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Out of curiosity, now that I have read the other thread, I take it you have gotten confirmation of his exact breeding and registration since you have referenced the fact that he is "registered chestnut" here in this thread - so, it has been confirmed that he is a pure, registered TB??


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## Suz (May 10, 2012)

Thanks, is there a way i can see if people have responded to posts?  Yh in that thread i was told he was very lightly a silver bay... by a few people... including Chilla said he might be
The registered thing by that i meant when i got him microchiped but hes not officially registered as i can't get his papers... he is branded but its not on australia stud book (the tb site) But is registered on the DPI website as a brand but doesn't tell me what breed... he looks like a tb to me but who knows could have some trace of something in him... i never received his papers off the old owners...


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

I can also kind of understand your confusion since in your other thread some of the things you are now saying are what was suggested to you-which is why I am asking if you ha, in fact, confirmed his breeding, etc.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

I don't see ANY black on this horse. I see dark brown and dark red. That's the funny thing about the sooty gene (which your horse has). It effects every horse differently. 

His mane does NOT look black. It looks dark brown. His legs do NOT look black. They look dark brown. All of which is caused by the sooty gene. 

Why can you not just accept the fact that he's a sooty chestnut and move on? Appreciate that he's a good horse, regardless of his color.


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## Suz (May 10, 2012)

Thanks, is there a way i can see if people have responded to posts?  Yh in that thread i was told he was very lightly a silver bay... by a few people... including Chilla said he might be
The registered thing by that i meant when i got him microchiped but hes not officially registered as i can't get his papers... he is branded but its not on australia stud book (the tb site) But is registered on the DPI website as a brand but doesn't tell me what breed... he looks like a tb to me but who knows could have some trace of something in him... i never received his papers off the old owners...


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

If you don't know what breed he is, get him DNA tested for color. Don't get frustrated with us for saying he can't have silver if he's a TB when you're the one who told us he was a TB in the first place.


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## Suz (May 10, 2012)

Yeah his legs aren't black they are dark brown but his mane is black... i have a black horse, they have the same coloured mane...


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## Reno Bay (Jul 8, 2012)

In your User CP, under Edit Options (I think), you can opt in to emails about new posts on your subscribed threads. I believe you are automatically subscribed to threads you post in and threads you start. I turned mine off cause it was uber annoying to have emails popping up all the time whenever someone posted on a thread I was following.


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## Suz (May 10, 2012)

Who does DNA testing?


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Suz said:


> Who does DNA testing?


Try this link 

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=horse+dna+testing


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## Suz (May 10, 2012)

Oh cool thanks  And whats all this business about carrots? can someone explain that to me as well please


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## Reno Bay (Jul 8, 2012)

Suz said:


> Who does DNA testing?


PetDNA does Agouti testing (the gene that turns black horses into bay or brown). They can test for recessive non-agouti 'a' and brown agouti 'At' individually or together. If you only get the non-agouti test done, anything that isn't 'a' in the genes will be assumed to be 'A' (bay agouti). I'm getting my TB done for both.

AG inc. does many different horse tests. I'm not sure if PetDNA does black/red, but this place does and more. The black/red test will determine if your horse is black-based (bay or brown) or red-based (chestnut). I don't think there are any tests for sooty anywhere, as it is believed to be a unique combination of different genes (?). AG's Agouti test only tests for non-agouti 'a' and bay Agouti 'A'. It will not test for brown.

I would suggest doing the black/red test first. If the horse is chestnut, you'll have your answer. If he's black-based, then you can decide to leave it at that or get the Agouti tests done to see if he's bay or brown XD


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## Suz (May 10, 2012)

thanks, i couldn't find it on the original post


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## Suz (May 10, 2012)

Thaaaannnnkkkks  Do you know how much it costs aprox?


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## Suz (May 10, 2012)

themacpack said:


> Try this link
> 
> Let me google that for you


funny stuff


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## Reno Bay (Jul 8, 2012)

Suz said:


> Thaaaannnnkkkks  Do you know how much it costs aprox?


It can get pricey depending on what tests you want. I just got a second job, so I'm doing mine soon. The black/red from AG inc. is $25 per sample you send them (they tell you how to collect the sample, mane or tail hairs with roots attached). For the comprehensive agouti (non-agouti and brown-agouti) it's $60. Like I said, safer to go with black/red first XD

I'm not sure if they do out of the US though...I can double check.


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## Suz (May 10, 2012)

Suz said:


> Thaaaannnnkkkks  Do you know how much it costs aprox?


Jokes found it lol


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## Suz (May 10, 2012)

Reno Bay said:


> It can get pricey depending on what tests you want. I just got a second job, so I'm doing mine soon. The black/red from AG inc. is $25 per sample you send them (they tell you how to collect the sample, mane or tail hairs with roots attached). For the comprehensive agouti (non-agouti and brown-agouti) it's $60. Like I said, safer to go with black/red first XD
> 
> I'm not sure if they do out of the US though...I can double check.


Thank you  ill have a google


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## Reno Bay (Jul 8, 2012)

Ah HERE we go. There's the University of Queensland Equine Genetics Research Centre. They do black/red testing.

Chestnut Coat Colour (CCC) - Australian Equine Genetics Research Centre at The University of Queensland


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## TheLastUnicorn (Jun 11, 2010)

Here... For interest's sake, Suz... All of these horses are chestnuts

Chestnut Morgan... So dark he appears nearly black









Another, but this one sports a flaxen mane









Another liver chestnut, not so dark as the first one









This one has a darker looking mane and tail, but obviously red body









Here's an oddball... His 









And one more of a similar effect


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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

And to get the point across for sooty...

Here's a palomino with heavy sooty in the mane.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

University of California - Davis also does color testing for $25/sample. That's who I'd go with in the US as they do all the known tests except for brown agouti (At).

It's probably easiest to test for Red Factor first. 

If it comes back ee then you know your horse is definitely chestnut. If it comes back Ee or EE you know you have a black based horse (most likely a bay from the pictures), and you can then test for silver (and agouti if that interests you). That way you don't waste a lot of $$ testing a million things at once.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

I wouldn't bother testing for silver IMHO. Silver is NOT PRESENT in thoroughbreds at all. The first time you posted him, I did not think he was silver, I said I wasn't completely sure that he wasn't silver. And before you use that as a "well it could be possible then" argument, please also remember that at that time you did not know that he was definitely a TB, so I was just simply not ruling it out until I was certain.

The second lot of photos have me far more convinced that he is chestnut. You can make what you want of that, but I look at those pictures and see exactly what I described - dark legs that get light on the coronet again. Definitely a chestnut, definitely not a black based horse such as bay.


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## SunnyMeadeFarm (Sep 3, 2012)

He most defiantly looks almost like a Livery chestnut to me.

This horse:








is said to be a liver chestnut.

This horse is True Bay








Notice the very black legs, and pure black mane.


Chestnut has SOOOO many variations! 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chestnut_(coat)


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## ilovehorsesand ponys (Oct 25, 2012)

Chestnut is my vote


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