# My farrier hit my horse....



## emwiss86 (Mar 6, 2011)

today the farrier was here. my horse hank is a 8 year old paint/draft gelding. he is a little stubern and doesn't always stand perfectly. since he's a draft and knows he's strong he likes to pull his foot away from you. anyways, the farrier was almost done! was just filing the last hoof. and all of a sudden he yelled at hank and smacked him on the belly with his file. This spooked my horse which caused him to jump and land RIGHT on my foot. the farrier noticed he landed on my foot and hurd me say OUCH! and all he said was "oh, did he get you?" I WANTED TO SMACK HIM AND BE LIKE "OH, DID I GET YOU?!?" so now im pretty sure i have a broken foot. Does anyone think this behavior is a little extreme and dangerous. should i find a new farrier? he also has a habbit of really fighting hank from putting down his foot which makes hank loose his balance and seems dangerous. i know i need to work on him standing better and we are in the process of finding a new trainer. but i need to know if i should find another farrier. PLEASE HELP NEW TO ALL THIS HORSE STUFF


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

This is a tough one. If the horse is yanking his foot out of the farriers hands while he is putting on a shoe or working with his instruments he can really hurt himself and the farrier. 

I dropped a farrier for hitting my horse with a rasp. One of my horses was a rescue (20 something years ago) and the one thing we never got past was shoeing. You can file his hooves but if you put shoes on him he'll go balistic and try to kill the farrier. He is dangerous but "beating him" was not going to make his dangerous behavior better. With my new farrier, I have NEVER had a behavioral incident with him.

My "new" farrier (I have had for several years now) is very patient. He has never hit any of my horses but if he were to, then it would be for good reason and I would never question him but I have total faith in him.

From the situation you described. I personally would either inform the farrier he is not to discipline my horse or get a new one.

Those are my thoughts.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

If you are not disciplining your horse and training your horse to behave for the farrier then someone has to do it. Being under a horse is very dangerous work. Your horse pulling his hoof away while the farrier works is actually a pretty serious issue not something to be made light of.

I have no problem with my farrier hitting my horse since he is the one who is under there. I also have no problem with him hitting my horse with the flat of the rasp on the belly if my horse does something that warrants it.

Thankfully he does not have to do these things since I do not allow my horses to act like fools when their feet are getting done.


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## gigem88 (May 10, 2011)

I agree with farmpony84, but I would have popped the farrier upside his head, too!


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

To me it sounds like your horse deserved it. Plus, he's a draft, I'm sure he was more scared then hurt, which is how it should be. 

And as for his "Oh did he get you" comment...the farrier probably gets stepped on a lot, so he is used to it, and probably didn't realize how bad he did get you.

From what you're saying I wouldn't get a new farrier, but you know him the best. So, if you feel like he's unsafe and not doing his job well, then get a new farrier.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Sounds like your horse needs more manners put on him. 

You got stepped on and noticed it hurt. How do you think the_ farrier_ feels when the horse rips the hoof out of his hands, leans on him, kicks, bites, or stomps him, and you as the owner are doing nothing to stop it? If _you're_ not going to discipline your horse when he acts up, someone has to do it. 

Hitting a horse on the belly with the flat of a rasp isn't the end of the world, and I don't blame the farrier one little bit. This is his livelihood, and if an owner allows an animal to misbehave, he might just get hurt badly enough that he can't work.

My farrier doesn't have to discipline my horses, as I'm right there doing it for him and making them behave.

Sorry OP, but this one is your fault. Teach your horse to behave, or you'll find you won't have any farriers willing to work with you.


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## A knack for horses (Jun 17, 2010)

I think there are two sides to the argument, and I'm on the fence in what you should do. 

I do agree with Alwaysbehind in the fact that what your horse is doing is fairly serious. He could end up hurting himself, your farrier, or you if you aren't careful. I don't own my own horse, so I am forced to work with other people's horses, and I'm not above smacking somebody else's horse if I feel my well-being is at stake with behavior a horse is presenting. Your farrier has a right to protect himself, especially when his income depends on his ability to work. 

On the other hand, I agree with FarmPony84. Your farrier doesn't need to be overly agressive with your horse, especially if he is a bit antsy with the farrier. The agressive action may be adding to your horse's behavior with the farrier. If that is the case, you may want to look around for a new farrier. Or you need to tell your farreir that you don't want him being so agressive with your horse.

Either way, I think there are problems on both side of the issue that need to be worked on. I hope your foot gets better and you find a solution to your problem.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I think you need to practice with your horse, and get him more used to standing for the farrier. Hold his foot up yourself for about as long as a farrier would, and do this often. 

Did the farrier give a warning sound like an 'eh' first?
Was it the flat side of the rasp?

I think it is fairly normal for a farrier to discipline a horse if the owner is not doing it. If they get hurt, which they often do, they lose income for how ever many weeks. They often go back to work days not weeks after a broken bone, as if they don't work, they don't earn, and could lose clients for good. 

My farrier is very important to me. He is the third most important person in my horses life, behind my barn owner and I. I do not want him to get hurt.


Edit to add - sorry about your foot - did you go and get xrays?


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## writer23 (Apr 6, 2010)

As someone with a very large horse who dislikes having his feet done 80% of the time I can sympathize with the OP. Once they've been allowed to be antsy and know their size it can be very hard to overcome the farrier obstacle. 

When I got my gelding his feet hadn't been done for nearly a year and the owner struggled to get shin boots on his legs. So I had a lot of work to do. And it requires patience and caution.

The first farrier I had couldn't get near him, even after some Ace (which I don't recommend). And he hit him with the rasp, etc. And no I don't blame the farrier one bit.

After a lot of work on my part and a new farrier (used to dealing with large horses/drafts) my gelding is getting better. I make a point to always handle his feet. If he's 'acting up' with his feet I've phoned the farrier and told him not to come and rebooked for a week later so I can work with his feet more. 

I agree with the above posters - work with him more to minimize the bad behaviour. Good luck - I know it can be difficult. Also I'd add some farriers tend to pull the leg out sideways too much, which can cause the horses to pull back (my gelding).


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Lots of good posts so far, and I think both sides of the situation have been touched on. 

NO farrier is going to be okay with the horse yanking and pulling on him, or trying to put the foot down before he's done working. 
If you no longer like or trust this guy, well, then you need to make a change. But the issues that created this problem won't go away - you'll need to address them with the next farrier. 

Most farriers greatly prefer that the owner discipline the horse, and will only take it upon themselves if the owner is unobservant or unwilling. Since the farrier is working under the horse, and asking for a high degree of submission, he needs to be the "good guy." He should NOT be the disciplinarian. 

Here's some things you can do to improve both the working relationship with the farrier and improve the results: 

Discuss with the farrier beforehand what you think the horse's behavior problems are; and *ask how he would like you to react and/or handle them* Ask the farrier to educate you a little about how to stand and position yourself and the horse to make things easier for him. Continue the conversation while the farrier is working. You'll learn tons, and your horse will benefit. 

Do a few simple things to make your horse more comfortable with being handled for the farrier. Make sure he's turned out or had exercis ebefore the farrier comes so he's not tense or stiff. If your horse has any arthritic issues, give him a gram of bute the evening or morning before the farrier visit - this alone cures many "behavior" problems that have physical causes. Do work with your horse *every* day about having his feet handled and do not tolerate him leaning on you or snatching his foot away. 

From your post, it seems like the farrier was trimming the horse, not shoeing. IF the farrier was shoeing, and had driven the nail but not clinched it, that's an incredibly dangerous situation for the farrier, the horse and you. If the horse yanks away with the nail unclinched, he can rip the farrier's hand open, rip his opposite leg open - the farrier has a choice between those options, or having his back and knees wrenched and pummelled.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Just out of curiosity, were you standing on the same side as the farrier or on the opposite side of the horse? It is always advisable to stand on the SAME side, so if the horse spooks away from the farrier, he will not spook into you.

I would be very irritated if that is all my farrier said after causing my horse to spook and step on me. of course he did not mean to, and he may have needed to get the horse's attention, but a more heartfelt apology for you pain would have gone a long way. That is something to think about.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

If this horse is difficult to have farrier work done, he needs to be trained to accept it because eventually, no farrier will work on your horse except a lousy one. In my service area, we have a "superstar" farrier (he is the best of the best & is taking no new clients) and a few good ones and a few medicore to lousy ones, that's it, and we have a severe shortage of farriers. All of his clients, me included, worship the ground this man walks upon, so we do our utmost to make sure our horses behave for him. Yes, once in awhile he will smack the belly of a horse if it leans on him, fair enough, the man works hard and doesn't need to support my horse's weight as well. But I am kinda worried for you....if your foot is broken go to the hospital immediately!


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## writer23 (Apr 6, 2010)

Excellent advice, Maura.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Sorry your foot is hurt, but as an owner of a draft cross also, I can say, I am with the camp who is on the farrier's side. There are many farriers who will not even do a draft. Unless you have an abundance of good farriers in your area, I would suggest you appreciate the work he does, and if he smacks the horse, the horse most likely deserved. it. I am horrified if mine do not act like perfect gentlemen for the BO, farrier, whoever. They have been taught to respect people, and they had better. Period. If I am not there to discipline them I appreciate those who do, because if not-it just perpetuates a bad habit. Remember-every time someone is interacting with your horse it is learning. and if this farrier did nothing, it would only learn disrespect.

I would also suggest that you work with your guy on giving his feet, but remember-it goes farther than just picking them up and holding them. Many don't like the farrier pounding, etc....so when I am teaching a newbie, I always hammer, etc...and make them behave.


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## twh (Feb 1, 2010)

OP, you didn't specify what the horse did to provoke the farrier to hit him --- could you tell us?


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## emwiss86 (Mar 6, 2011)

twh said:


> OP, you didn't specify what the horse did to provoke the farrier to hit him --- could you tell us?


he just tryed to put his back foot down while he was filing his back hoof. i do not shoe him in the back. my horse is scared of the farrier more then he is stubbern. believe me i know i need to work with him but i had no warning and he just smacked him and scared him even more. which caused him to land on my foot. after he smacked him and filed for another second, he was COMPLETELY done shoeing.


I'm new to horses and he said he would work with me and hank. he knows he has some trouble standing still bc he gets scared and stubbern. he never complains about hank just says to keep working with him and he will be fine. so the smack came out of NO WHERE to me? i am happy for all the help.  i really am :lol: but i REALLY realize i need to work with him, and this is our first horse, we are in the process of finding a new trainer. but in the mean time was wondering if i should try another farrier bc Hank might just not like him? i wasn't questioning the skill of farrier or hitting a horse who doesn't stand. just the fact that he agreed to help me with hank and that he hit a horse who is already scared in the farrier situation...

ps foot is broken... didn't go to dr yet.... but can't move a few toes...swollen and bruised. prob going to dr in morning if i can't walk.


thanks again everyone. i think im just gonna try someone else and see how he acts for them?


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## emwiss86 (Mar 6, 2011)

i was on the same side as farrier. 

is it dangerous for the farrier to hang onto the leg if he is trying to put it down? should he let him put it down and then pick it right back up. or struggle and hang on to the leg? throwing him off balance. it seems to freak the horse out even more when he does this and it scares me... or is that what you have to do when a horse wants to put down his foot? like i said... new to this

we also have tons of farriers in our area and they see alot of difficult horses. since we live in lancaster pa


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

My farrier has never hit my horses and never will.

This is because he knows that if they start acting up I will step in and correct it. Yes he will attempt to hold a hoof that is being snatched while I reprimand and ask the horse to stand. If for some reason the horse is being a prat and not paying attention to basic commands he will let the foot go and step back while I pull the horse back in to line. Once this is done, he goes back to work and 9 times out of 10 we have no more dramas.

Having a horse trying to snatch a back leg can be incredibly dangerous, have you been on the receiving end of a hoof striking you? It hurts. If you are not being aware and watching your horse and stepping in when needed then it is well within your farrier's rights to protect himself and reprimand your horse. 

You need to be reading your horse continuously. Watch his ears, watch for weight shifting, watch his muscles. It is very rare for a horse to misbehave without some small warning that something is afoot. It is up to you to catch these signals and stop the behaviour in its tracks. Not doing so risks the safety of you, your horse and in particular your farrier.


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## Jess Angela (Jun 24, 2011)

I don't believe any horse ever "deserves" to be hit. Ever. We had the same issue with a farrier in our barn a few months ago. He no longer shoes for anyone in the barn. While your horse may need a little extra training with his feet, hitting them will not only leave a bad taste so to speak in your horses mouth, but put you in danger, and set you a few steps behind in your training. 

Farriers know how to handle horses that may not always give so easily, and he should have walked away and cooled down before his temper got the best of him. You have every right to look for a new farrier if you feel it was unacceptable. Bottom line is its your horse, your money, and you get to decide what is best for him. You have the responsibility of keeping both him, and your self safe.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

So, Jess, how would you discipline a horse who tries to kick you? My guess is that perhaps you have never met one who really challenges you. A human hitting a horse is nothing. Watch horses with each other in a pasture sometime. There is nothing quite like aa alpha mare who is being challenged. She thinks nothing of "hitting" to achieve appropriate behavior.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

emwiss86 said:


> he just tryed to put his back foot down while he was filing his back hoof.


Really that is not a _just_ thing. 
You keep saying he just tried to put his foot down.
That is a huge deal, as has already been described.
No, no nails were involved this time but what if you put shoes on will your horse suddenly say 'oh, there are unclinched nails there I can not yank my foot back whenever I want'?
He has to learn that when a person has his hoof in their hand and is working on it then he has to stand there and be patient until the person gives the hoof back.



emwiss86 said:


> is it dangerous for the farrier to hang onto the leg if he is trying to put it down? should he let him put it down and then pick it right back up. or struggle and hang on to the leg? throwing him off balance.


You have an amazing way of wording questions that totally make your horse sound like a victim.

How will your horse learn that he can not snatch his leg back whenever he wants if the farrier lets him do it?
The farrier holding on to the foot was trying to teach your horse that he can not simply stomp his foot down whenever he wants.

Did you notice where a farrier stands while doing feet? They are under the horse. Lets set aside the whole unclinched nails are dangerous though and simply think about your farriers body. If your horse takes his foot back and stomps it down he will be stepping on the farrier. 


Maura gave you some great advice. 




Jess Angela said:


> I don't believe any horse ever "deserves" to be hit. Ever.


Laugh!!!! I will tell my three that they are not allowed to bite and kick each other either.
Obviously they do not deserve to be bit or kicked.


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## Beauandme (May 29, 2011)

I agree, I was embarrassed when my boy didnt act like a gentleman when getting shod. He is the only gelding with 3 mares and was acting like a total fool. I had to get one of the mares from the field to calm him down for the farrier. It worked he was as calm as a kitten.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

It is common for a horse that fights the farrier to fire a shot just as he releases the hoof. Would you isolate your horse from others because another kicked it in the ribs? What the farrier did was nothing compared to a kick. His comment wasn't out of line. You experienced what he has to put up with. Get the horse trained and quit making excuses for it's behaviour. What you think is "scared" is likely behaviour the horse has gotten away with before you got him.


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

There is a big difference between hitting a naughty horse to discipline it, and beating a horse. I still think your horse deserved to be hit, not beat, but hit, because he was being a brat. 

What do you do when you are picking out your horses feet and he tries to yank it out of your hand? Just let him do it and pretend it never happened? Because if you do, you're going to have a more serious injury than a broken foot.


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

I'm also of the opinion that the farrier was correct in disciplining. 

Mine are expected to stand like soldiers and if they don't I fix it, immediately. Right now I'm having some medical issues that limit what I can do with my horses. So the last time my farrier was out, my pretty much non-horsey hubby did the handling. My yearling filly took complete advantage. She's been wonderful every time until then, she just saw an opportunity & she took it. I told the farrier he had full permission to kick her little butt! She was either pulling away or leaning on him. She did get an attitude adjustment & he went at her much easier than I would have myself, simply because I've taught her better than that and she knows I expect better from her. She stood like a champ after their discussion & I guarantee next time she won't try it again. 

While we may love them like pets or even family, we must be leaders and that includes discipline. A smack from a human is nothing compared to what an alpha mare dishes out in the pasture and that isn't always a bite or kick. Once they dish out a couple real ones, they rarely have to, just a small threat enough to say "I'm the boss & not afraid to nail you, change your tune!" 

I wouldn't rush and change farriers, instead spend more time training the correct behaviors before his next visit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## horselvr (Apr 5, 2011)

It may seem that some people here are being harsh, and being a first time horse owner I can imagine you feel like you need to protect your horse. But like so many have said you must discipline your horse. "smacking" a horse is nothing. It is not abuse it is not uncalled for in many situations. You will get hurt quickly if you let your horse get away with things. Letting them get away with a bunch of little things is going to lead to a horse that you cannot handle. they are going to realize very quickly that you are afraid of them and that you are not going to correct them. My horses do not have to be held to get farrier work. I get them out, put a stud chain on them tell them to stand and walk away. My farrier is also my father who will never let a horse get away with anything. If they need to be smacked with a rasp or popped one good time to get their attention then so be it. I am soft with my horses and probably too soft sometimes but I would never let my dad get under my horse and let the horse take advantage of the situation. You have to realize that your horse is 1500+ lbs and although you want to baby them it is not going to do your horse any justice. They are not dogs that we baby and although it may seem as though they "love" you, horses are not capable of human emotions they are horses. They will either respect you and look to you for guidance and confidence or they will disrespect you and hurt you. You cannot apply human emotions to a horse. Horses have instincts not emotions - Fear, hunger, thirst, mating, etc... I hope that you understand why others are so concerned about this situation and see tugging or pulling away as such a big issue. Its not directed at you to hurt your feelings or tell you that you are wrong but to protect you and your farrier.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

I'm in middle here. First of all yes, farrier job is very dangerous and most of them get multiple injuries during the carrier, often because the owners don't take time to teach a horse to behave while trimmed. However I also know/seen situations when farrier was just not in a mood and smacked horse hard for quite innocent move. 

There is a difference between disciplining a horse and just throwing a bad mood on animal. And even how one discipline highly depends on horse and situation too. My qh tries to pull her foot away (not badly, just testing) every time she's trimmed (she does NOT throw this crap on me BTW). I discipline her right on spot (with the good smack). Boom, she quits (as she does it intentionally and perfectly knows it's forbidden). Moreover I told my farrier plenty of times he can smack her (although he never did).

My paint on other side is loosing her balance when back foot is up very easily. Smacking her won't make things better nor help her to keep that balance, but will bring her in that nervous freak condition and it'll be harder to deal with. Instead my farrier always tries to find a position to keep her most balanced.


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## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

emwiss86 said:


> is it dangerous for the farrier to hang onto the leg if he is trying to put it down? should he let him put it down and then pick it right back up. or struggle and hang on to the leg?


 To put it simply, every time the horse "wins" by getting his foot back and putting it down when he wants, he will be that much more inclined to do it again and again, until you are no longer able to pick up the foot at all. The horse must learn that he is to let humans handle his feet in whatever way they chose, and not fight it, and sometimes the learning process is a tough one, especially with a big strong drafty type horse that has weight and stubbornness to throw around. If he becomes off balance because he is fighting the farrier, this is his own fault, and he will learn this. It's not the fault of the farrier who is holding the foot, it is the fault of the horse that is fighting. 

If you do switch farriers, I would definitely do as Maura said, and give full disclosure of his issues. It might help to have someone a bit more horse savvy hold him while he is being worked on, as you said you are new to this, maybe someone who has been doing it longer could read his body language better and correct him before there is an issue? And teach you to do the same?


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## emwiss86 (Mar 6, 2011)

franknbeans said:


> So, Jess, how would you discipline a horse who tries to kick you? My guess is that perhaps you have never met one who really challenges you. A human hitting a horse is nothing. Watch horses with each other in a pasture sometime. There is nothing quite like aa alpha mare who is being challenged. She thinks nothing of "hitting" to achieve appropriate behavior.


 my horse was not trying to kick....


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## emwiss86 (Mar 6, 2011)

thanks for the input everyone. Once again I REALIZE THE HORSE NEEDS WORK. I really really really understand its my fault. All i was asking was for input on others experience with farriers and if this is a normal thing to do to a horse that is frightened of the farrier. (smacking him with a file) LIke i said I'm new to this.... and needed some help, a lot of you were VERY harsh which really wasn't the help i needed.....You all are very knowledgeable but pass your knowledge on in a nice way, Or people won't care what you have to say. I'm going to be looking for a new farrier and a new trainer. maybe even have someone else hold him for the next farrier apt. (good idea apachiedragon, thank you)


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

I have had the same farrier for 11 years, and he has around 35 years' experience. He not only does my riding horses, but did my breeding stock and 40 or so foals/yearlings back when I was breeding. 

I trust his judgment. He has whacked a couple of mine on occasion - he uses the same rasp on the belly "technique"...:lol: He is very patient with youngsters - of course I imprint them for the farrier - and only whacks one of the older ones that knows better and is just being ornery. By the time they are a year old they know what they are supposed to do when the farrier comes (nothing) - when one acts up they are just being ornery and the rasp on the belly doesn't do any harm at all and is just the proverbial 2 X 4 to get their attention. Actually, one of mine gets a very gentle nudge from the rasp because he falls asleep while being trimmed and sometimes ends up leaning...my farrier is only about 5 '2", and doesn't like to be leaned on...:lol:

He doesn't do it much, though. In all these years with all my horses, he has only had to whack one maybe 6or7 times. That doesn't count Chili, the one that always falls asleep, but those aren't really whacks - more like "Hey, wake up and get off me"...


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

emwiss86 said:


> thanks for the input everyone. Once again I REALIZE THE HORSE NEEDS WORK. I really really really understand its my fault. All i was asking was for input on others experience with farriers and if this is a normal thing to do to a horse that is frightened of the farrier. (smacking him with a file) LIke i said I'm new to this.... and needed some help, a lot of you were VERY harsh which really wasn't the help i needed.....You all are very knowledgeable but pass your knowledge on in a nice way, Or people won't care what you have to say. I'm going to be looking for a new farrier and a new trainer. maybe even have someone else hold him for the next farrier apt. (good idea apachiedragon, thank you)


emwiss, if you are unsure about the guy, just give another one a try. Personally in your situation (being a new owner with not so much experience yet) I'd look for other people opinions as well. Not seeing the whole situation makes it hard to judge (at least for me). May be the guy was right and you are overreacting. On other side may be he's one of those people who let the anger get on animal. We just don't know. 

And yes, it takes time to teach a horse to behave for the farrier (it took me quite a long time I have to say) and it's an owner's responsibility. So just keep working with your boy daily. Good luck!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

emwiss86 said:


> my horse was not trying to kick....


I think the point that was trying to be made was that when I horse pulls their back hoof away like that a good percentage of the time it includes a small kick.


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## Jess Angela (Jun 24, 2011)

franknbeans said:


> So, Jess, how would you discipline a horse who tries to kick you? My guess is that perhaps you have never met one who really challenges you. A human hitting a horse is nothing. Watch horses with each other in a pasture sometime. There is nothing quite like aa alpha mare who is being challenged. She thinks nothing of "hitting" to achieve appropriate behavior.


I disipline my horses by putting them to work. I move their feet. I make them sweat. A horse gets to a point where it knows the consequense will be exausting. Not only do my horses not have a problem with the farrier, with never once being hit by me, but as a trainer the horses I work with do not. It may take time and work to teach but it is well worth it. I am not in a pasture, I am not a horse. I am a trainer and will behave as such. So saying "well horses kick eachother" is very uneducated. Being the reason you dont pay horses to train eachother. I am continuosly challenged every day, but I will not lower myself to hit a horse. The thread is asking if it is ok for a farrier to hit a horse. In my opinion, NO. Get a new farrier because your horses cant speak for themselves. You are responsible for taking care of them.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Jess, just curious.

If your horse acts up while the farrier is there working do you take them out and move their feet while your farrier stands there and waits?


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

Jess Angela said:


> I disipline my horses by putting them to work. I move their feet. I make them sweat. A horse gets to a point where it knows the consequense will be exausting. Not only do my horses not have a problem with the farrier, with never once being hit by me, but as a trainer the horses I work with do not. It may take time and work to teach but it is well worth it. I am not in a pasture, I am not a horse. I am a trainer and will behave as such. So saying "well horses kick eachother" is very uneducated. Being the reason you dont pay horses to train eachother. I am continuosly challenged every day, but I will not lower myself to hit a horse. The thread is asking if it is ok for a farrier to hit a horse. In my opinion, NO. Get a new farrier because your horses cant speak for themselves. You are responsible for taking care of them.


So, you exhaust a horse if it misbehaves? I think that is worse then a quick smack.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Jess, what do you do when your horse is acting up RIGHT NOW for the farrier? Do you make the farrier stand around for hours while you work the horse? That seems rather disrespectful of the farrier's time, don't you think?

Discipline is a necessary tool, and horses need to be disciplined while they still have an idea of WHY they're being disciplined. If you make a horse work and work and work, it has no real clue why it's being asked to work for so long.

Horses out in the field have blow ups and get over them quickly. Using their own timetable, discipline needs to be fast and to the point, otherwise they simply don't get the connection.

It's fine if you don't believe in a well placed smack when it's deserved, just don't expect the rest of us to fall in line behind you, or consider us uneducated simply because we don't follow your particular approach. 

Many roads lead to Rome, and the same can be said for horse training.


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## Jess Angela (Jun 24, 2011)

Speed Racer said:


> It's fine if you don't believe in a well placed smack when it's deserved, just don't expect the rest of us to fall in line behind you, or consider us uneducated simply because we don't follow your particular approach. Many roads lead to Rome, and the same can be said for horse training.


I'm not saying anyones way is wrong. I was pointing out the obvious. That I am not a horse, and I will not behave as such. You want to smack your horse. Not my problem. My farrier would rather I move a horses feet for five min than be harmed. Either way, my horses behave because they have been trained. But that is not what this thread is about. You say its cruel to work a horse. Well you hit yours, and Ill work mine. Easy as that. 

But again in answer to what the topic is actually about. No, I do not find it acceptable for my farrier to smack hy horses in any way and would look for a new one. Training is a seperate issue entirely.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Some what off topic but curious - Jess, if your horse was injured or lame and was on say stall rest for their injury, what do you do then when your horse misbehaves? You can not lunge them.

ETA - this is a sincere question. I am truly curious what the 'move their feet only' types do when their horse is not able to move their feet but requires discipline.


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

So Jess, you think working horse to exhaustion is better than a quick smack? I just don't understand it


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Jess Angela said:


> No, I do not find it acceptable for my farrier to smack hy horses in any way and would look for a new one.


You'll soon run out of farriers that way, unless your horses are angelic each and every time they encounter the farrier. Which, knowing horses as I do, it's simply impossible for them to behave _all_ the time. They're individuals, and have their own opinions and temperaments.

I don't believe I stated anything about your methods being cruel, but they certainly aren't direct. I also don't think I'm behaving 'like a horse' when I smack them. That's silly, because they and I both know I'm not one. I'm just using their short time span of recognition when it comes to discipline, so they understand that cause equals effect.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Jess Angela said:


> I'm not saying anyones way is wrong. I was pointing out the obvious. That I am not a horse, and I will not behave as such. You want to smack your horse. Not my problem. My farrier would rather I move a horses feet for five min than be harmed. Either way, my horses behave because they have been trained. But that is not what this thread is about. You say its cruel to work a horse. Well you hit yours, and Ill work mine. Easy as that.
> 
> But again in answer to what the topic is actually about. No, I do not find it acceptable for my farrier to smack hy horses in any way and would look for a new one. Training is a seperate issue entirely.


Can you understand that there is a time and place for both? I too will move my guys feet sometimes to get him to behave. However, in this case (which is what this post is about) a smack is much more immediate and is of the least disruption to the farrier and considers his time. By the time you get the horse off cross ties (if you use them), get the farrier out of the way and start moving the horse, the horse has no idea what he is moving for! An immediate correction like a well placed smack not only corrects the horse right then, but it gets his mind back on the business at hand. NOW. I certainly would not expect my farrier to stand around while I made my horse move.

FYI-I am well aware that the horse was not trying to kick, in a malicious way, op. My point was that you said you would never hit your horse. I would hope that if you were under your horse, say, trying to clean his sheath, and he tried to kick you, you would smack him! Making him move won;t work then either, BTW, unless you want him stepping all over buckets and hoses and possibly injuring himself. Sometimes moving just is not immediate enough for me. Yes, it does work for many things.


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## Jess Angela (Jun 24, 2011)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Some what off topic but curious - Jess, if your horse was injured or lame and was on say stall rest for their injury, what do you do then when your horse misbehaves? You can not lunge them.


I still would not hit. Ever. I can disipline without hitting. Verbal correction would be more than enough for my horses. And you increase pressure from there depending entirely on the horse. I start with the mildest correction. That keeps them the softest and most attentive. I never lunge for correction. I work the horse, give it a task, and get it focused on me. It isnt an over night fix. But then again, I had my horses trained to stand for the farrier before he came. Im not cutting down the poster on her training because that isnt what the question was about.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I am not sure you answered by my question. You are the one who said you discipline by moving feet.....


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## Jess Angela (Jun 24, 2011)

Sorry franknbeans. I can understand that that is your method, and you have a time and a place for both. But for me, and my horses it is and always will be unnacceptable. Ill continue to stick with what works for us.


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## Jess Angela (Jun 24, 2011)

Alwaysbehind-
I dont have a cookie cutter way of training. I told you I move feet. I told you other ways I would correct. Every horse is different. I tailor training to them. But I still dont hit. 
Not sure exactly what you are trying to hear....


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

I'm going to try to drag this thread back on track, rather than have it devolve into an discussion of the merits of different training methods. 

In summary, the OP is young, and a new, inexperienced horse owner who loves her horse. She was shocked and upset when the farrier physically disciplined the horse by hitting with the rasp in the belly. 

She has gotten a lot of feedback about how it's her repsonsibility to discipline the horse and to ensure he has good manners for the farrier. <<< I think we're all in agreement about that one. 

It's also been stated repeatedly that she needs to learn to handle the horse on the ground, position him so he's balanced, and learn to assist the farrier by handling the horse correctly <<<<< 100 % agreement on that, right? 

A bunch of people have stated that a rasp or a wire brush on the belly is a pretty common method to ask the horse to stop leaning or yanking on the farrier. Not saying whether we agree or disagree with the method, just that it's common. 

I will offer my own opinion here, and say it's also fairly effective short term in making the horse straighten up and take their own weight rather than leaning on the farrier and I don't think it causes the horse any lasting trauma. 

Now for the disagreements -

Some people think it's NEVER okay to physically discipline a horse. That's a valid opinion. 

Others think it's fine to do so in certain limited situations, as it's treating the horse as other horses treat them in a herd situation. Some wouldn't even consider the "rasp in the belly" as hitting. Also a valid opinion.

No group of people is ever going to come to concensus on the last two points; it's just not gonna happen. And trying to come argue the merits of each position isn't going to help the OP.


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## be patient (Jun 20, 2011)

I don't know... I just can't see a farrier hitting a horse with a metal file - that is dangerous and sounds more a reactive anger issue than "teaching" your horse anything. I have used several farriers in the past thirty years or more and none of them, to my knowledge has ever struck my horses. I just don't see how this was good for the farrier, your horse discipline and especially for you who got hurt and lost confidence in your farrier!

For what they are worth, I guess for starters, make sure your horse is truly as comfortable as possible - familiar, level setting, fly spray, not too tight halter and treats or something to help him relax while he's standing with you and the farrier.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

emwiss86 said:


> we also have tons of farriers in our area and they see alot of difficult horses. since we live in lancaster pa



I don't live far from you, and I would agree that you have plenty of farriers in your area, however many are not very good. 

If you want to change farriers (I don't really think there is a need, but that is up to you) I would find a trainer in your area and ask who they use.


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

My farrier has given Norm a few good spankings over the years. He deserved it, and it straightens him right out. It sounds harsh, but he's 17 hands and too **** strong to be misbehaving. 

Use your own judgement when it comes to other people scolding your horse. Smacking is one thing, but beating is a whole different matter. And you'd probably be hard-pressed to find a farrier who _won't_ discipline your horse.


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## bigbull (Sep 4, 2010)

I would smacked the farrier up side the head with rasp and said oooo did I get you. As smacking any animal doesn't help any behavour
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ladybugsgirl (Aug 12, 2009)

The last time my horse was done and he yanked away from farrier. The farrier whacked him but it didnt bother me cuz bobs gotta learn. But if my farrier was laying into my horse there would be a problem
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

Epona is usually bad for the farrier....and she usually ends up getting smacked.... IMO, she totally deserves it. She is such a brat during trimmings....she is a 2,000 lb draft....she tries to yank her hoof out of his hands, which knocks him off balance...he'll take it once, then he smacks her. HOWEVER, he warns me first if I am at her side to move.... My son usually does the holding, he puts her in her training halter and stands at her head during trimmings, so unless i am chatting with the farrier, no one is usually to her side.


We are totally ok with our farrier's actions. He has a wife, two kids and a brand new baby....his safety is our primary concern, not our horse's hurt feelings at getting whacked. IMO, worrying about your horse's feelings over another persons health and/or life is selfish


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## haleylvsshammy (Jun 29, 2010)

My horse has gotten a smack or two from my farrier and, to me, it's no problem at all. My horse needs the correction quickly to understand that his behavior is not okay. My trainer describes this kind of discipline perfectly (oh, just to add I NEVER hit my horse unless he does something to warrant it (like biting me) and even then it is only a quick "correction smack" not a beat down) but anyway my trainer says that you need to act like a horse when you correct them.

Obviously we aren't horses but think about when horses are playing in the pasture... if a horse tries to play with one horse that doesn't want anything of it the other horse quickly bites, kicks, etc the horse to say "no, I don't appreciate that" and the horse backs off. I believe that the farrier was simply trying to tell the horse in a way that he would understand that trying to take his foot back is not okay. If my farrier attempted to beat my horse by giving several blows for one offense then that would not be alright by me. Since, however, your farrier gave a quick smack for an inappropriate behavior on your horse's part I feel that it was a-okay.


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## Annnie31 (May 26, 2011)

To hit or not to hit..that is the question....well once in a while every farrier runs across a horse that throws all their weight on the foot they are trimming, or pulls back and away when they are trimming and sometimes even the best trained horses do stupid things. I believe a farrier must do their job, and if my horses are not behaving we put his safety at risk as well as the horses, so we agreed that if he was gonna discipline when I was holding the lead he better let me know so I could be prepared and not get stomped on. Its really that simple. 
Farrier says "He's gonna get a smack"....BO says "Okay".
I do not condone smacking for no good reason but once in a while they have to be reminded that the farrier is there to look after the most important part of their body...their feet.. NO HOOF NO HORSE


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## TralissaAndalusians (Sep 7, 2007)

I've only ever had 2 of my horses hit, and it was once with Luca and once with Raine. Luca had not long come over from Spain and his feet needed seeing to badly. So you can understand he was nervous, and we had a young farrier at the time. Luca yanked his foot away and put it down, and refused to have it picked up again, the farrier hit him with a rasp and stormed out. This farrier was fairly new and young, still no excuse, Luca didn't do anything terribly wrong, and if he had, I'd have understood, but Luca didn't even seem nasty about it. 

We didn't have him back, and instead called out my college tutor's husband. 

He is lovely and very good with my horses, and I wouldn't change him for anything. (Well, I'd have Clyde back if I could because he was an amazing farrier, but retired ) 

Anyway, he came out and on the last horse, Raine, he gave her a smack. She's a 4 year old, and she is a cow when it comes to standing still, and I'm still working on correcting her for it, he didn't hit her with anything, just his hand and firmly said no. She stood so he could finish, but he didn't lose his temper like I saw with the young guy.

A horse just needs a bit of training to get them standing still. We usually pick up the horses feet and have a feel around, and lightly tap their hoof with a hoof pick, until they stand quietly and stop pulling away, and once they stop, we let them know their good and we slowly put the foot back down, then go onto the other. I think everyone has a different way, but this has worked for me.


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## wausuaw (Apr 15, 2011)

I go both ways... some horses respond differently to different forms of "punishment" - for instance, my mare- if you react at all harshly to her she'll come back at you with all full fury of teeth and hooves. If you are calm and patient, she'll be calm and patient and do well. So, this farrier would not have had a happy ending, so to speak. 

So, when I was looking for a farrier, I specifically stated I needed one that was firm, patient, and not aggressive (this is before she was familiar with her feet getting picked up- and she had nailed me good a few times in the "learning" process I tell ya!). I got contacted by a vet who referred me to who I have now, and she does great with him. (I made a full disclosure beforehand so he knew what to expect) The first time, she pulled back quite a bit, reared up, stomped on toes- but, after a few minutes and some comforting, she'd be fine. 

But, I have seen horses who "know better" and for some reason try to pull one over on the farriers- to which I have seen get "rasped" and figure out they shouldn't do it anymore and have no problems.


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## FrillySlayerPig (Aug 30, 2011)

*Reply to "Speedracer*

How about this speedracer...what if I am taking care of one of your kids (theoritically if you have any) and one acts up and I take my foot and kick him in the butt. Would you be ok with that one? NO! How about you stand there and let another species cut and rasp ur toe nails and force you to bend in awkward ways. Besides the OP didn't say the horse did anything dangerous they said the horse "re-adgusted a bit. Besides if you know anything about horses "Speedracer" you should know that hitting a horse will only make it worse anyway. They might not explode then, but they will eventually. Under no circumstances does a horse need to be hit :x... not even if they are "misbehaving". In my opinion if you have to hit ur horse to get him to either do something or not do it then you don't know how to deal with horses. I am an equine vet with a masters in equine behavior and they respond to signals not abuse. I have NEVER had to hit one of my horses and I have owned well over 30-40 in my lifetime. All 30 have had different personalities and most were abused rescues and I NEVER had to hit them. There are other ways that will actually work. Hitting NEVER works. Even if it works in the moment, the horse will become a coiled spring and snap eventually.


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## tempest (Jan 26, 2009)

FrillySlayerPig said:


> I am an equine vet with a masters in equine behavior and they respond to signals not abuse.


So hitting your horse now constitutes as abuse? So what would you call a horse disciplining another horse? They bite, the kick, and they strike out. How is hitting (I'm talking in moderation, not going out and beating your horse) your horse to discipline it for doing something wrong any different than how the herd leader would treat a horse who had put the herd itself in danger?


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

FrillySlayerPig said:


> How about you stand there and let another species cut and rasp ur toe nails and force you to bend in awkward ways.


HUH? So we should not have other species do our horses feet? Are we cruel for doing so, as we are bending them in awkward ways? 




> Besides if you know anything about horses "Speedracer" you should know that hitting a horse will only make it worse anyway. They might not explode then, but they will eventually.


Are you confusing hitting with beating?





> Hitting NEVER works. Even if it works in the moment, the horse will become a coiled spring and snap eventually.


Do you have any proof for that statement? I think the vast majority of people here slap, hit, push their horses. There is a big different between doing that and abusing them.


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## Chardavej (Mar 13, 2011)

FrillySlayerPig said:


> How about this speedracer...what if I am taking care of one of your kids (theoritically if you have any) and one acts up and I take my foot and kick him in the butt. Would you be ok with that one? NO! . How about you stand there and let another species cut and rasp ur toe nails and force you to bend in awkward ways. Besides the OP didn't say the horse did anything dangerous they said the horse "re-adgusted a bit. Besides if you know anything about horses "Speedracer" you should know that hitting a horse will only make it worse anyway. They might not explode then, but they will eventually. Under no circumstances does a horse need to be hit :x... not even if they are "misbehaving". In my opinion if you have to hit ur horse to get him to either do something or not do it then you don't know how to deal with horses. I am an equine vet with a masters in equine behavior and they respond to signals not abuse. I have NEVER had to hit one of my horses and I have owned well over 30-40 in my lifetime. All 30 have had different personalities and most were abused rescues and I NEVER had to hit them. There are other ways that will actually work. Hitting NEVER works. Even if it works in the moment, the horse will become a coiled spring and snap eventually.


Human children speak english, so they can be told to stop and they understand.

Horses don't speak english, they warn then strike, HARD. Do you have a herd? Do you watch them? We have 15 and it's amazing to watch them. To get them to repond they strike and bite, chase and kick. And the horse isn't tramatized or hurt or becomes mentally unstable and flips later. 

You're working with a horse, they are a big animal that can so easily kill you. I want to speak to them in a language they understand. So far so good, they are respectful and quiet. So far they haven't come back later for retaliation. It usually only takes once and they've learned. No making them move their feet, taking time and effort that I just don't have. One quick correction and it's over. The horse isn't hurt, isn't tramatized. I've seen them get double barreled and not flinch. That same double barrel would have killed me.

They big and strong, I'm not gonna take baby steps and pamper them and worry that I might hurt their wittle feelings. Everyone always, ALWAYS, comments about how good all my horses are, and almost every one of them came to me as issue horses. (of course as I write this one will prove me wrong tomorrow, horses always have a way to humble you real quick!)

Had a cookout tonight and one of my friends came over that we made a swap of horses. He had a horse that was just spooky and would jump all over you, buck you off, drop shoulders and spin, bolt and take off. 

She now is just freakin AWESOME and I just love her! And he is so happy with the sweet little mare he got. Who was also a little out of control when I first got her.

I don't make them move their feet, I match their energy. Quickly then I'm done, like nothing ever happened. I'm the alpha mare. I have to be, they understand that.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

Around here you would be hard press to find a farrier that didn't discipline a horse when needed. One or two do go overboard, but for the most part majority of them only do it when needed. 

As to forewarning the owner - maybe when its possible, but usually the response from the farrier needs to be immediate for the horse to understand, right? Otherwise the horse won't correlate the response with their action and to me that could be construed more as abuse rather than discipline. 

Now there are places to stand where a person will be safer if there should be a response. Maybe owners should learn where these locations are around the horse and keep their feet out of line of hooves? On the other hand - horses are a dangerous hobby...

I would prefer to work with someone who will correct my horse immediately when needed (I train them, but they aren't always the angels I train them to be and I'm not always in the best place to provide the immediate response needed for discipline) then let my horse get away with something that could prove to be dangerous to me, them or others in the future. I would prefer to have disciplined horses (when needed) then spoiled brats who feel humans are nothing more than floor mats to walk over.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

emwiss86 said:


> i was on the same side as farrier.
> 
> is it dangerous for the farrier to hang onto the leg if he is trying to put it down? should he let him put it down and then pick it right back up. or struggle and hang on to the leg? throwing him off balance. it seems to freak the horse out even more when he does this and it scares me... or is that what you have to do when a horse wants to put down his foot? like i said... new to this
> 
> we also have tons of farriers in our area and they see alot of difficult horses. since we live in lancaster pa


I have to agree that you are totally defending your horse's bad behavior here. He's not scared of the farrier. He doesn't want to do what is asked and is being belligerent about not getting his way. Plain and simple. I have a 2yo draft cross gelding. I know how they can be (especially seeing as mine was a basically unhandled, barely halter broke stud colt when I bought him three months ago). 

What do YOU do when your horse tries to pull his foot away from you? Do you let him have it back and give up? If so, you let him win. Yesterday, my gelding was being a total turd. I was cleaning his right hind hoof out before a workout and he kept trying to pull it out of my hand. That doesn't fly with me and he knows it, but he still tries. He succeeded in getting his foot away from me and aimed a hefty kick at my thigh. I'm not ashamed to say that I turned around and punched him in the ribs and told him to stop being a ****. He stood like a gentleman after that.



emwiss86 said:


> he just tryed to put his back foot down while he was filing his back hoof. i do not shoe him in the back. my horse is scared of the farrier more then he is stubbern. believe me i know i need to work with him but i had no warning and he just smacked him and scared him even more. which caused him to land on my foot. after he smacked him and filed for another second, he was COMPLETELY done shoeing.
> 
> I'm new to horses and he said he would work with me and hank. he knows he has some trouble standing still bc he gets scared and stubbern. he never complains about hank just says to keep working with him and he will be fine. so the smack came out of NO WHERE to me?


Again, I'd be willing to bet Hank isn't scared of the farrier. How does Hank act when he sees the farrier? Does he get nervous? Or does he only act out when the farrier is actually working on him? If it's the latter, he's not afraid of the farrier, he just doesn't want to behave.



Jess Angela said:


> I still would not hit. Ever. I can disipline without hitting. Verbal correction would be more than enough for my horses. And you increase pressure from there depending entirely on the horse. I start with the mildest correction. That keeps them the softest and most attentive. I never lunge for correction. I work the horse, give it a task, and get it focused on me. It isnt an over night fix. But then again, I had my horses trained to stand for the farrier before he came.


Wow. So when my 2yo draft cross gelding (who was still a stud at the time) who is 15.2hh and 1200lbs hauled off and attached himself to my forearm for no good reason, I should have just told him no? Somehow I really don't think that would have been as effective as the flat-out smack to the nose he got instead. Oh, and guess what? He hasn't even offered to bite me since. 

Yes, verbal correction would be more than enough for YOUR horses because you've trained them to respond to it. Sorry, but my horse came to me as a barely-handled, barely-halter broke 2yo stud colt with absolutely NO ground manners. There's no way a verbal correction or even "making him work" would have done a bit of good when he bit me or tried to run me over. All he understood at that point was brute force. Your methods may work great for your horses, but they won't work for everyone's and I can tell you from experience that they won't work with a draft cross who has gotten his way for quite a while (as it honestly sounds the OP's horse has).


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Just curious as to why this thread is being resurrected. 

The original conversation took place in June.

I sincerely hope members arent' searching through the forum looking for posts to disagree with or offended by.


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## BarrelracingArabian (Mar 31, 2010)

I think from what you explained your horse probably deserved a good pop. Him being a draft he could have been leaning on your farrier which is why he 'suddenly' yelled and popped him to get him to get off. My farrier woulda done the same thing . It is extremly dangerous for them and even more so being that your horse is a draft and could hurt him even easier then an average horse. 

However is your horse had been being an angel and not causing your farrier troubles and he still hit your horse well then I would be very concered.


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

I think its a situational thing. Its hard in your case because none of us were there so we can't really know what the perspectives were. Saying that, at the very least the farrier should have looked to ensure you weren't in the way I think. Yes, its best to keep out of the way but sometimes its not always possible, sometimes someone might be walking past or you might be doing something, if he was going to react he should have checked it was safe to do so, unless he was in imminent danger, I think. 

When I was about 13ish I had a two year old who hadn't had much handling until I got her and she was great with me, I worked with her alot to pick up her feet and hold them and everything but she was still quite uncomfortable with men. I don't know why but she just didn't like them. She'd had the farrier about once before, maybe twice and we'd told him she was scared and he'd send her around in a few circles on a rope and was just really good with her, she'd come from barely letting a man touch her legs to pretty much standing and holding still the whole time. 

Then we get this other "renowned" farrier who we've used before with a different horse and I tell him that she is only young and she is scared of men, I even say if its getting a bit much for her we'll just do two feet and the other two later. Then she pulls a foot away once, and then she tries to move away at one point when he is holding her back foot up (yes things can be dangerous and I am doing my best to settle her and control her) but then, without warning or anything he whacks her in the stomach with a rasp. And she's terrified and tries to bolt off almost running little 13 year old me over, she's shaking, whites of her eyes, the whole thing, and so I tell him not to hit my horse, and then he throws his rasp in the tray and walks away with only one foot part done.

I think he made the wrong decision. If he'd stopped for a moment, stroked her on the neck she'd probably have calmed down and been fine. But he had to be agressive and of course the next time a farrier came, a different one, she was worse than ever because she thought that he was just going to hit her. 

Yes, horses kick each other with a lot of force, but horses aren't restrained in the paddock, they give warning with all their body language and they rarely kick each other under the stomach which would be quite sensitve. In the "herd" a horse can move away from danger, but they can't when we have them, and there is no warning. A kick means "stay away" for them, I don't think many horses, especially young, inexperienced ones, are going to connect leaning their weight or moving their foot with a hit in their stomach. If I need to hit my horse for any reason its an emergency "go away" one. Like if a horse were to bite the hit would be a "keep away" not just "biting is bad". Or if a horse were to move into me its a big keep out of my space message, not a "please don't lean your weight on me" one. How is a horse going to know that?

I don't know. Old thread. My opinion. If you don't like what a farrier does get a new one and communicate how you feel prior. I've met a fair few "trainer farriers" who do good work with a horse to get them great for the farrier. Maybe its worth getting one of them.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

This forum is making me very happy about the equine vets I have. Wow. Who knew there were so many messed up equine vets out there.




Chardavej, I love your avatar photo. So cute.


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## Chardavej (Mar 13, 2011)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Chardavej, I love your avatar photo. So cute.


Thanks! That's my boy Dusty, he loves a cold soda! He will slurp it through his teeth, LOL! If you have soda in a cup (like from McDonalds) he will hold the cup, tip it up, and slurp it through his teeth.

He's completely blind, still ride him, he's awesome!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

What a fun story. Love it.


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