# Problem with positioning my lower leg & keeping heels down



## Heroine (Sep 16, 2014)

Hello everyone. I'd like to hear some advices for my problem. I struggle with it for a long long time and still I can't fix it. The problem is while riding a horse my lower legs go too much forward. I keep paying attention to moving back my lower legs, but when I do my calf is stretching and then I start feeling pain, especially while trotting. And there's another problem connected to this one. I can easily keep my heels down, but only when my lower legs are moved forward. And when I try to move backwards my lower leg and then heel down, I feel my ankle really hurt, so it becomes to impossible to keep that position for a longer time. Any advice? Do you have similar problem? My riding instructor can't help me, and I don't know if there's something wrong with my calfes and ankles. Please, help!


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Some pictures would help. What type of riding do you do?


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## Heroine (Sep 16, 2014)

Hey,

I do English riding.

Here's two photos:








This is while trotting, lower legs go forward.









Walk, lower legs positioned but can't keep my heels down due to pain.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

You are allowing you knee to go forward into the knee rolls, this means you then sit back so to balance your lower leg goes forward.

So, what to do about it?

When you get on sit centre of the saddle. Put your feet in the irons and then place a hand under one thigh from behind and pull all the muscle to the back. Do the same the other side. 
It will feel totally different to how you normally sit. Your thigh and knee will be flat against the saddle and your lower leg under you.
It is something you will have to do many times during a rode but gradually it becomes natural.

I am not sure about your stirrup length, they don't look to bad in the top but look short in the second. When you mount and let your leg stretch down the bottom of the stirrup should be on your ankle bone.


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## mslady254 (May 21, 2013)

It might be the saddle. Some saddles have a forward position for the stirrup leathers and it's a constant fight to keep your legs in good position. 

Do you have these issues in any saddle, or mainly this one ?
Can you post a picture of just the saddle so we can see where the leathers lie naturally.

It looks to me like at the trot the stirrups are in their natural forward position, and at the walk, you are able to force them (the stirrups) into a better position but all that strain makes it painful to drop your heels in addition to fighting the stirrup.

I also think the stirrups might be a tad short in the walking picture. Have someone help you check where the stirrup is in relation to your ankle bone as already suggested. Take your foot out of the stirrup and let your leg relax down. Don't look down as it will effect the measurment. Have someone else feel where your ankle knobble is in relation to the stirrup. The stirrup should be at or just below the ankle, esp. for English riding.

Agree with rolling the thigh as suggested, it's certainly worth a try. I do it a bit differently, though. Standing on the ground, turn your knees inward (pigeon toed), this will automatically turn your toes in. Look at your legs and remember...lol. When back in the saddle, pull your knee off the saddle ,,rotate it like you did on the ground, then place it back on the saddle. Do each leg separately. Viola! nice position, toes straight or a bit in (heels outish). Then let your heel drop-dont force it down. 
Have you done the stretching excercises for dropping the heels? stand on a step ,,standing on the ball of your feet,,,let your heels drop and gently increase the amount of the drop. Do this every day-it helps stretch the appropriate calf muscles to be able to achieve a nice heel drop. Would be surprised if your instructor has failed to tell this already !

Hope some of this helps you figure it out. It's sooooo frustrating when our bodies don't do what we want them to, and it seems everyone else is having an easier time of it !! 

I'm sorry but if you've been struggling with this for a long time and your instructor has been unable to help, I think you need a better instructor.

Fay


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I'm not an English rider, so take this FWIW:

I suspect your legs go forward at the trot because your center of gravity is behind your stirrups. When you go to post, the stirrups are pushed forward. If you leaned forward enough to get your center of gravity over your stirrups, you would go up instead.

It is always easier to lower your heels when your feet are forward. Your ankle can only flex so much. Suppose you can raise your toes 20 degrees. If your shin is vertical, you can raise the toes 20 degrees. If the shin is 20 deg from vertical, with the heels forward, then you could raise your toes an additional 20 degrees from that angle, or 40 degrees. If your shinbone is angled 20 deg back, then raising the toes their maximum will get you a level foot.

Here is some advice from the 1930s, from a guy who wrote the US Cavalry manual:



















Good luck!


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## Heroine (Sep 16, 2014)

Thanks for replies!

I don't think the issue is about a saddle, because this problem occurs in other saddles as well.

Yeah, the stirrup might be short, but it helps me to keep my heels down. Anyway I'll try to lengthen it next time.

I'm not sure if I correctly understood your exercise, *Foxhunter*. How do I pull my thighs to the back?

*mslady254*, I agree, I don't see others having a problem like that at my riding school ^^. I will definitely try your suggestion with rotating knees! And yes, I heard about this exercise for dropping the heels and sometimes I do it before my riding. But as I said I only have problem with keeping my heels down when I move my lower legs to the back. And it's not about strength in heels or ankles, but feeling pain while trying to drop the heels in moved backwards lower legs position. I hope you understand me on this one 

Anyway, thanks for advices!


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## Gossalyn (Sep 12, 2013)

here is a video with someone pulling their thigh back, so you can see what she means (around 35 seconds in).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I8xM-I3z4I

the rider looks like she tries to do it w/o pulling at first, but the idea of the exercise is that you move you upper thigh back like that and see how it changes your leg. It changes the whole position of your middle body really.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Take a look at this picture from George Morris's book, and his review of that position, compared to your own:


















Where would your heel be if the stirrup strap was vertical? Speaking for myself, riding in an Australian-style saddle (or when I did use English), toes somewhat out rather than straight ahead allowed my leg to conform to my horse's barrel and put less stress on my legs.

In both your pictures, your foot makes the same angle to the shin. That is probably everything your ankle has to give. When you pull your lower leg that far back, you tilt the shin back far enough that it isn't possible for you to retain a heels down position. The angle in the picture below is the same, but one gives a 'heel's down' and the other a 'heel's up'.










If you are trying for a forward seat, I suggest getting your foot FORWARD, so the stirrup strap hangs straight. That is the position in all saddles where gravity helps hold you in place. Try lunging a horse with the stirrup straps loose - the stirrups bouncy slightly, but they stay in one position on the horse - because there is no rider to move them!

Since your center of gravity should be close to or above your stirrups, you will then need to lean a bit forward - hence a "forward seat", with a forward center of gravity. In the picture below, the solution to the top guy's problem is not bringing his heel back:










All this assumes you are trying for a forward seat and not a dressage one. I won't comment further if your goal is the latter.

BTW - most of the quotes above came from http://www.amazon.com/Riding-School...4&sr=8-1&keywords=riding+and+schooling+horses

The George Morris book referenced is http://www.amazon.com/American-Jump...07&sr=8-1&keywords=the+american+jumping+style


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

We have a General Purpose seat that's somewhere between the longer length dressage and the shorter jumping length for everyday riding. Its a lot more comfortable especially for novice riders. 
Where you have your legs too far forward its because you're pushing your heels down with so much force you're forcing the leg into that position. Your stirrups are too long
In the other pic your stirrups are too short and it takes a lot more time in the saddle to be able to get your muscles and joints prepared to sit correctly like that which is why you're in pain
Aim at a length somewhere in between and you'll find it easier
Your weight needs to sink downwards into your heel in a relaxed way and not be pressing onto the stirrup with any force


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## Heroine (Sep 16, 2014)

Wow, thank you guys for making this clear! Now I think I get it what I'm doing wrong. And I can't wait to try and practice this new knowledge  I'll post after next riding!


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

This is just my opinion, and it is ONLY based on two pictures, so keep that in mind.

The second picture of you at the walk, it looks like you are sitting to far back in the saddle, which makes it very difficult to keep your legs underneath you, making posting difficult. It looks as if you have enough room in the saddle to scoot forward a wee bit, which would help bring your leg underneath you, which helps the posting.

I still have to at times do the 'thigh roll'. It does help!


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## QuietHeartHorses (Jul 31, 2012)

Ouch! My legs are hurting just reading this! When I started out, my instructor let me have a longer stirrup, and then she brought me up gradually so my leg muscles could adjust. Even so, I about died during my first two point lesson when she shortened my stirrups to what seemed like jockey height. My legs hurt for a week after that.

I think getting used to shorter stirrups just takes time and adjustment. Definitely do the stair step stretch as often as possible. Just stand on the edge of a step with only your toes on the step, then slowly lower and raise yourself by pushing up with your toes, and letting yourself sink back down. This stretches all of those crucial muscles along the back of your legs.

Squats, lunges, anything that builds up strength in your legs... it'll do you all kinds of good!


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

Unless one is jumping, a general rule of thumb is to have the stirrups straps long enough that the stirrups hang near the rider's ankles when her feet are out of the stirrups. Think of standing, legs apart and slightly bent, and a horse just happening to be between them.

When sitting in this way, don't think of pushing your heels down. This tightens the rider's leg muscles and often results in pushing the stirrups forward. The rider should simply release any tension in her muscles and let gravity do the work. By releasing tension in the muscles of the crotch and around the pelvis, the rider's seat should sink deeply into the saddle. By releasing the muscles throughout the legs, ankles, feet, and toes, the rider's legs should wrap naturally around the horse's rounded body. The stirrups will stop the downward progression of the balls of the rider's feet, but her heels should be free to drop lower according to the length of her calf muscles and tendons. When allowed to do so, gravity will draw the rider's feet naturally below her hips.


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