# I want to build a dog cart



## Indyhorse

The draft dogs I've seen in the past were either led by a handler while pulling, or trained to voice commands, I can't say I've ever seen one trained to respond to rein cues like a horse, though I'm sure it could be done.


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## twogeldings

I've been working both Hazel and Duke with voice commands and they've been picking it up on the well, just need more practice. I need to build (or buy) a better harness for Duke, as it's just been a makeshift rope one. 

I'm looking to build something like this: Roman Reign Hand Crafted Draft Dog Vehicles and Wagons for training in the beginning. More as an aid in teaching them to actually pull the cart (empty), eventually with weights, wood, or blocks. My goal to have them trained to pull (with a person riding in the cart) is early June of next year. I have been training and working with them, but as they demonstrated today (took off into the neighbors yard and completely ignored my commands) they need quite a bit more work before I'd trust them pulling a cart with anyone in it.


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## Indyhorse

twogeldings said:


> I've been working both Hazel and Duke with voice commands and they've been picking it up on the well, just need more practice. I need to build (or buy) a better harness for Duke, as it's just been a makeshift rope one.
> 
> I'm looking to build something like this: Roman Reign Hand Crafted Draft Dog Vehicles and Wagons for training in the beginning. More as an aid in teaching them to actually pull the cart (empty), eventually with weights, wood, or blocks. My goal to have them trained to pull (with a person riding in the cart) is early June of next year. I have been training and working with them, but as they demonstrated today (took off into the neighbors yard and completely ignored my commands) they need quite a bit more work before I'd trust them pulling a cart with anyone in it.



Well, I know very little about cart training dogs, but quite a bit about training dogs in general - it's what I do for a living, after all. From your description, this would be my advice - put the cart training COMPLETELY on hold, and work on your obedience. It's pointless to try to work on cart training, agility, herding, or any other dog sport without first having an excellent obedience foundation. It's like trying to break a horse to ride without ever giving it any groundwork first - you might achieve a little, but in the end the work you've done will unravel. You are quite literally putting the cart before the dog!

Get them where they will respond to your commands, come when called, stay, and heel at the very least, all off leash before you even consider adding in the extra training (and not to mention the additional risk!) of hitching them to a cart.

I missed if you mentioned about their ages, but this has been my experience with working herding dogs. A dog is not mentally ready to handle more advanced training until they have been given time to mature. My pups get behavior tested on the sheep at 6 months of age, after that they play with stuffed sheep, socks full of wool, and they watch herding from the other side of the fence - they don't get put on sheep themselves until they are (usually) nearer 2 years old. They just don't have the very strong obedience foundation they need before that point.


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## equiniphile

Really funny you should post this. I have a yellow lab/German shepherd mix I rescued from the pound in February. He's sooo strong, only 2-3 years old. So one day it was freezing out and I really didn't feel like carrying back 4 huge bags of shavings to the barn from the car.....so I grabbed a sled, took a collection of lead ropes and fashioned a harness that used his whole body strength instead of just his neck like a collar. I used rein cues on him, along with "woah", "walk", and "let's go!" We've been working with him for a while now, and he's really doing well lol. I'll try to take a video for ya

And I totally agree--work on obedience FIRST AND FOREMOST. My lab Marley has excellent obedience, and that's why he's so well behaved and responsive while "driving"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## twogeldings

Indyhorse said:


> Well, I know very little about cart training dogs, but quite a bit about training dogs in general - it's what I do for a living, after all. From your description, this would be my advice - put the cart training COMPLETELY on hold, and work on your obedience. It's pointless to try to work on cart training, agility, herding, or any other dog sport without first having an excellent obedience foundation. It's like trying to break a horse to ride without ever giving it any groundwork first - you might achieve a little, but in the end the work you've done will unravel. You are quite literally putting the cart before the dog!
> 
> Get them where they will respond to your commands, come when called, stay, and heel at the very least, all off leash before you even consider adding in the extra training (and not to mention the additional risk!) of hitching them to a cart.
> 
> I missed if you mentioned about their ages, but this has been my experience with working herding dogs. A dog is not mentally ready to handle more advanced training until they have been given time to mature. My pups get behavior tested on the sheep at 6 months of age, after that they play with stuffed sheep, socks full of wool, and they watch herding from the other side of the fence - they don't get put on sheep themselves until they are (usually) nearer 2 years old. They just don't have the very strong obedience foundation they need before that point.


Duke is four years old, I got him as a play buddy for Hazel this year. His owners contact me (I had an ad on Craigslist) as they went from country to Suburbia and felt it's just be better for him to live where he can run and play all day.
He's well trained, sits, lays down, heels, comes when called, goes into his kennel, and stays on command, both on and off the leash. Although he is a bit of a lemming (if Hazel does something, Duke blindly follows). I can take Duke out off leash around the neighborhood and he'll stay with me at all times, he's just a bit of an air head. If he's really excited (most of the time) and I tell him to sit, he'll instantly sit. Then if I go to pat his head he'll drop to the floor like a rock all 'You want me to lay down?! Okay! Okay! Okay!' 
If Hazel told him to jump off the next cliff, he would sniff one out and merrily leap off into oblivion. I love him, but sometimes he's just...dorkish. 

Hazel is year and six months, I got her at a year old completely untrained other than well socialized and well loved. Her owners rehomed her as they had both broken hips and countless other bones in a nasty wreck. Untrained dog who likes to climb into laps (fixed her of that fast, now she only does it if asked) plus broken bones just didn't clash well and they had no one capable of taking proper care of her.

Her training needs to be constantly changed and kept working and interesting...otherwise she just gets bored and tunes you out. One day I could be working on sit and stay, the next it's sit, heel, and pop over this jump. If I do sit and stay two days in a row, I'm setting myself up for frustration and a bored, useless dog. 
She sits, lays down, stays (in and out of sight), comes when called, and heels off leash...when theres not something else around, like another dog. If theres no distractions, then she's a very obedient, intelligent girl. 

I've established the basic 'you listen to me when I tell you something' and I'm currently working with her on 'you listen to me when I tell you something, no matter whats happening'. Her favorite thing is rabbits, I currently have a retired brood doe acting as my 'wild rabbit'. We're still doing on-leash stuff, she has to sit, lay down, stay, heel, and walk quietly no matter what the bunny happens to be doing. She's progressing at a good pace, but still needs work. She has half her attention on me and half on the rabbit, I want it completely on me and none on the rabbit


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## Indyhorse

From the pictures it looks as though Hazel is a Dane, or at least mostly Dane. I'm sure the vet already cautioned you about too much strenous work at her age - large breed dogs and heavy joint exercise in youth is a baaaaad combination. Just make sure her body is mature before you start having her do any serious work.

As far as the distractions, I find "watch me" a very good cue to teach young, excitable dogs. My collies are intense enough I don't need to, but my aussie would be after a rabbit like a shot back in the day, too. A very effective training method I used for my aussie, actually, was based around schutzhund obedience and I think it works incredibly well for dogs that are easily distracted, although it might mean going back to the basics with your Hazel. The essential part of the training is you never teach the dog commands like "stay" - that is he is instead trained to do what you have told (sit, lay down, whatever) until he is given a release. Regardless of what you do. Regardless of if you move, walk away, or if it's 10 minutes or a full hour or more, he follows the last command he was given, until he is either given a new command, or released from the last. There is a lot of conditioning, and it takes longer to train this way, but it's ultimately more effective in the long run, and you might find you have good results with your Dane on this - and probably your Weim too.


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## equiniphile

IH, sorry to get off topic, but i've never heard of that training method. It seems like it would be a lot more effective, though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## IllComeALopin

Indyhorse said:


> The essential part of the training is you never teach the dog commands like "stay" - that is he is instead trained to do what you have told (sit, lay down, whatever) until he is given a release. QUOTE]
> 
> This is what I was always taught too.
> You don't have to teach stay because it is expected.
> 
> The dogs I seen pulling were MUCH heavier built. Again, the first dog is a Dane mix. Personally I really would not recomend using her only becuase of the breed's very common hip issues.
> I would consult your vet about her for sure if nothing else.


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## travlingypsy

Have you thought about just getting a mini pony cart? Imo they seem nice cause they got the good seats, ive been trying to find one on CL for my rottie.


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## Indyhorse

IllComeALopin said:


> This is what I was always taught too.
> You don't have to teach stay because it is expected.
> 
> The dogs I seen pulling were MUCH heavier built. Again, the first dog is a Dane mix. Personally I really would not recomend using her only becuase of the breed's very common hip issues.
> I would consult your vet about her for sure if nothing else.


The only reason I don't use this training method with the rest of my dogs is because they are herders - generally when they are on the sheep and told "lie down" it doesn't mean lay down and don't move, it means slow down, lower your body, and creep as needed. I am generally well away from them and often on the other side of the sheep from them, when working so to have to physically approach them and "release" them from a command with a physical touch would be counter-productive. But my aussie, who has never been worked on sheep, excelled in tracking, obedience, agility, and flyball, we did it all until his arthritis got the better of him. Although I never (and never intended to) did bitework/protection with him (which is what schutzhund is most commonly associated with) I was always grateful for his start in schutzhund obedience, it was ideal for him.



Generally draft dogs are Swissy's, Bernese, or Bernards, but there is no reason any breed can't do it as long as you are not overloading them in the weight department. I would worry about Hazel's young age, however.


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## CheyAut

Me and my prev dog Kodak (RIP). THis is a K-9 Sulky, a custom made dog cart. Weighs about 20-25 pounds, and the custom part of it is that it's made to his height so that the weight is not on him at all. There are a lot of dog carts made by good manufacturers who know what is important in a dog cart. There are several dog carting/driving groups on groups.yahoo.com that you should join.


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## twogeldings

Indyhorse said:


> From the pictures it looks as though Hazel is a Dane, or at least mostly Dane. I'm sure the vet already cautioned you about too much strenous work at her age - large breed dogs and heavy joint exercise in youth is a baaaaad combination. Just make sure her body is mature before you start having her do any serious work.
> 
> As far as the distractions, I find "watch me" a very good cue to teach young, excitable dogs. My collies are intense enough I don't need to, but my aussie would be after a rabbit like a shot back in the day, too. A very effective training method I used for my aussie, actually, was based around schutzhund obedience and I think it works incredibly well for dogs that are easily distracted, although it might mean going back to the basics with your Hazel. The essential part of the training is you never teach the dog commands like "stay" - that is he is instead trained to do what you have told (sit, lay down, whatever) until he is given a release. Regardless of what you do. Regardless of if you move, walk away, or if it's 10 minutes or a full hour or more, he follows the last command he was given, until he is either given a new command, or released from the last. There is a lot of conditioning, and it takes longer to train this way, but it's ultimately more effective in the long run, and you might find you have good results with your Dane on this - and probably your Weim too.


The most serious work we do are small jumps. Now that summer (and the heat) has hit jumping is restricted to evenings. She does love to run, climb, and rough house with Duke, I don't usually restrict her in how much she frolics about. She has, of course, access to clean water 24/7.

I've been working towards the 'stay/sit/lay down until released' with Hazel. Her top time currently is about five minuets when I've been actively training her. She's gone longer when just given a command around the house, but I've only timed her during training sessions (normal session lasts around 10-15 minuets, often times twice a day). 




IllComeALopin said:


> The dogs I seen pulling were MUCH heavier built. Again, the first dog is a Dane mix. Personally I really would not recomend using her only becuase of the breed's very common hip issues.
> I would consult your vet about her for sure if nothing else.


I've actually seen German Shepherds and Rotti's used to pull. Hazel's taller than a Shep and can exert as much, if not more, force as a Rotti. She's checked out completely a-ok with the vet. I don't plan on doing any real pulling until she's more in the 2 year old range (I don't think she'll be ready for any real pulling until then as it is)

I'm looking for plans to really well balanced carts. There was one gentleman built carts where per 100 pounds placed on the axles exerted 1 pound of pressure on the dog. 




Indyhorse said:


> Generally draft dogs are Swissy's, Bernese, or Bernards, but there is no reason any breed can't do it as long as you are not overloading them in the weight department. I would worry about Hazel's young age, however.


Like I said, real pulling wouldn't be until the 2 year range or so. The most she'll ever be pulling is in the 120-130 pound range, and always on concrete or pavement, never on dirt/gravel/grass. Her feet are pretty tough, but I'll probably have to look into buying or making her some pooch boots to protect her paws. Not just because of hot surfaces, but also because of rocks and glass.

I don't intend on working her in cart every day, or for long distances either, more when I can't/am unable to walk or run her because of my back or knee or on a cool day and I have nothing better to do than take her on a ride around the neighborhood.


You should see her when I take her on hikes through the woods. Occasionally Duke will get a ways ahead of her and she'll take off like a rocket. It's amazing to watch her, it's more like she's flying then running. Every 2-3 three seconds you here this lil 'pumf' of her paws hitting the ground. From sniffing in a bush to Greyhound in .2 seconds! XD

Most of the time she passes him in the narrowest breath of an inch, but sometimes she runs smack into him 'cause she misjudged a bit, or he moved into her path. Hurts like mad when she plows into you. She's clipped me only once in the several times she's gone super-dogging past me.


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## horseluver250

I used to have my dalmation pull a wagon when I was younger. Her harness was an upside down horse halter (the nose around her neck and the crown under her belly) and my "cart" was a radio flyer wagon haha. She'd pull the wagon all over the place, but if I put anything in it, she'd sit down and refuse to move. I wish I had a picture of it. 

Maybe a goat cart would fit your larger dog.


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## icehousehorse

If you do get around to doing it, it would be great to see the pics.

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Always in our hearts Amanda Renee Spence


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