# doubling bareback?



## horseluver50 (Mar 19, 2009)

I have always wondered.. is riding with 2 people on one horse damaging to their backs at all, does it hurt them?

My mare is 1050lbs, not sure if she could hold it?


----------



## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

I am pretty anti bareback...not all the time,mnd you, but most of it. I would not ride a horse double at all, let alone bareback, seems like it is too much unsupported pressure to me. Especially if the riders in question are anything less than perfectly balanced...

Just my opinion...


----------



## horseluver50 (Mar 19, 2009)

thanks for your input, is there any scientific facts about if it is bad for your horse, or is it just an opinion?


----------



## Gidji (Dec 19, 2008)

I believe that a horse can support 20% of its own body weight but that doesn't mean it should.
I have ridden double at a walk and the horse did not feel stressed at all. I have also ridden double at a trot for a short period and the horse didn't mind.
But I don't think it would be fair to do strenous work whilst riding double.


----------



## Sea To Sky (Nov 29, 2009)

i dont think it would be a problem at all unless it was fairly regularly... Many horses very hapily carry two riders =D


----------



## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

There are facts to support it, but that just opens a can of worms, so I will stick with opinion.


----------



## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

*Theres facts. It hurts both rider and horse. Watch the video below, may help you understand.* *Its in the second part.*

Jalah And I - Stacking It In Style on Vimeo


----------



## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

LOL I remember when you posted that video on here, you guys ate it good time!


----------



## My Beau (Jan 2, 2009)

I haven't ridden double bareback, but i've had a person sit behind my saddle many times with no issues. If the horse is well muscled and in shape I don't think it would be a problem if you just walk around.

Heck, when I was younger I had 2 people behind my saddle once...


----------



## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

If you look at where the second rider sits behind your saddle(closer to the hips rather than in the middle of the back, plus you have a saddle supporting you...) and where a second rider would sit bareback(closer to the middle of the back, smaller area of pressure in a weaker area of the spine...) it is quite a bit different.

Just wanted to point that out, I won't post on this thread again, most disagree with my views on this, and I would rather this stay positive and helpful than a big debate over bareback riding...

OP-Whatever you do, be safe!


----------



## thunderhooves (Aug 9, 2009)

Bareback is not bad for the horse, IMHO. The indians rode barback all the time, and somtimes had to ride double, I bet. And yet, the horse breed is still here today, so obviously the indians didn't hurt them. I would ride double bareback all the time, but I little won't hurt. And plus, by yourslef bareback is a great way to gain balance! But where a helmet riding double bareback, at least!


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

Gidji said:


> I believe that a horse can support 20% of its own body weight but that doesn't mean it should.


That 20% refers to an endurance horse and it's chances of successfully covering 100 miles. For short periods any horse can carry more then 20%. I have given others a lift and at times the horse carried 350 pounds and seemed to handle it fine at a slow lope. That was a 870 pound arab.

2 girls will not harm a horse riding double. As for bareback I too am against it but not in this case. 2 girls will only walk along harming nothing.

I hate bareback riding but not for just a slow walk in the park.


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

thunderhooves said:


> Bareback is not bad for the horse, IMHO. The indians rode barback all the time, and somtimes had to ride double, I
> quote]
> 
> Bareback puts to much pressure over a small area. Think of your butt pones digging into the horses back. Indians didn't ribe bareback as much as most think. They made saddles out of green buffalo hides. Other then the Greeks no one rode a war horse bareback into battle
> ...


----------



## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Wow, I do it all the time, with and without a saddle. My mare has never had a problem with it, and I don't care what "facts" there are for it, if Ricci didn't like it or was in pain, she'd tell me.


----------



## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

I ride bareback all the time, i have ridden bareback double, my horse was neither in pain or unomfortable. if they have a well muscled back it shouldnt hurt at all. 
personally, my hrose has big withers,so it hurts me alot more o_0 lol


----------



## GandRPaints (Sep 26, 2009)

I agree that bareback is ok. Used to do it all the time as a kid. was easier to go bareback than put the darn saddle on. Never had a horse buck or pin their ears when doing this either. Id do it now except my mare is 2 and has high withers so it hurts me more than her. Plus my balance sucks as I get older. Hitting the ground isnt fun anymore Go for it!


----------



## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

me & my sis ride double bareback, my horse doesnt mind at all. we dont do it a lot, but we will w/t/c


----------



## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Someone posted a link comparing the pressure points caused when a horse is ridden bareback vs with a saddle, and bareback actually caused LESS pressure points than with a saddle... I don't remember who it was, that posted it, or which thread it was in (geuss I'll be searching for it). 

I've always ridden more bareback than with a saddle, and most of the horses I've had, seemed to enjoy being 'naked' for our long outings.


----------



## Attitude05 (Nov 11, 2009)

my first horse doubled all the time, never had a back problem.
of course the riders were well balanced and not overly big.


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

A horse's back should not have more then 1 pound per square inch. A typical western saddle is lucky , the bare tree that is, is lucky to have 60 square inches of area actually carrying weight. I measure 2 trees a few months ago when I pulled them from new saddles for custom fitting on the horse.
I am 190 without the saddle or about 210 with a saddle. Divide 210 by 60 and you get 3.5 psi. Still way too much.
I rode in a custom trooper for 20 years that had over 300 square inches of support or under 1 psi and although I rode at 220 pounds and over 30,000 miles not once did I run into a back problem. I kept the psi down.
A 120 pound girl with butt bones pressing into the horse can make for a very uncomfortable ride for the horse and if IF a person could honestly ride for any length of time bareback and at speed, like a good working trot or lope it would not be good for the horse. The saddle spreads the load and makes sure that no extreme pressure points dig into the back.
A don't beleive that anyone can really work a horse bareback. Sure a walk in the park but not really work. 
Pick a good working trot and hold it for 30 minutes would reduce any bareback rider to mush or even pick a lope and hold it for 30 minutes over hills, up and down and your bareback riding will again be reduced to mush.
We are just not that strong and yes I have loped many a circle bareback in the arena and for extended time.


----------



## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

RiosDad said:


> A 120 pound girl with * butt bones pressing into the horse* can make for a very uncomfortable ride for the horse and if IF a person could honestly ride for any length of time bareback and at speed, like a good working trot or lope it would not be good for the horse. *The saddle spreads the load and makes sure that no extreme pressure points dig into the back.*
> A don't believe that anyone can really work a horse bareback. Sure a walk in the park but not really work.
> Pick a good working trot and hold it for 30 minutes would reduce any bareback rider to mush or even pick a lope and hold it for 30 minutes over hills, up and down and your bareback riding will again be reduced to mush.
> We are just not that strong and yes I have loped many a circle bareback in the arena and for extended time.


 Did not want to post on here again, but alas, I agree. It is common sense.


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

Honeysuga said:


> Did not want to post on here again, but alas, I agree. It is common sense.


Why not?? And what are you doing up at this hour. It is below 0 F here right now and I am trying to debate if I should head out for a ride or not??

Wanted to post a picture of a trooper saddle in case someone never heard of them. A very comfortable saddle but it keeps you high off the horse and takes getting use to


----------



## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

I did not want to post on this again specifically because the bareback issue came up on another thread and I was attacked for being anti bareback, seems like common sense is over ruled by " if she isn't bucking me off, squealing in pain, rearing, ect., it must not be hurting her"... and one study that one person found solidified that in every one's minds, so I did not want to open the same can of worms on this thread,

I am up because I cannot sleep...

I find that saddle interesting btw, do you have any pictures of it w/o your butt in it? (hehe)

And go ride!


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

I noticed you posted at 4:14 AM on another post and you are in the same time zone as I am?? Are you up all night??
On a good horse, an older horse I work at a easy working lope and I will hold it for hours with maybe a short break every hour and uphill or downhill is all the same. The horse keeps loping or trotting, whatever but up of down the pace is manitained. Even in a saddle loping downhill or trotting downhill is hard and you constantly are thrown forward so bareback is impossible. A walk through the bush is different but if you truely work a horse bareback you are going to run into salty sweat, sweat that makes your crotch raw, burns. If you do not make a horse sweat bareback you are not honestly working him.
Anyway the trooper saddle??
Check it out
Haggis Trooper Saddles

PS I am heading out right now, with the windchill it is minus 22 C, darn cold so I will have to take it easy. Have a good day


----------



## MerlotDotOne (Nov 18, 2009)

i double on my horse alot of times most walk or jog never canter but not bareback but i was told from a girl on myspace that it was bad for there kindneys


----------



## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

I don't think the OP is planning on working her mare double, but my point still stands that_* I*_ would not do it because I feel it would cause a good deal of discomfort to the horse(and a good bit of unnecessary muscle soreness), especially with 2 pairs of seat bones digging into its back...

Not sure which time zone you are in but it is 7 a.m. here. And yes, I have been up all night, having trouble sleeping lately, no idea why...

Thanks for the link, I will check it out.


----------



## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

MerlotDotOne said:


> i double on my horse alot of times most walk or jog never canter but not bareback but i was told from a girl on myspace that it was bad for there kindneys


Punctuation, please.


----------



## horseluver50 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thanks for everyones opinions.. so adding them all together.. 
I have come up with this:
Going for a stroll double bareback is alright, walking, maybe light jog, but cantering could be hurtful to the horse.
No, I would not be working her when going double bareback.
We would only do that to walk down the road, or a light jog on a trail or something.

I will be riding bareback by myself alot, would using a bareback pad be more comfortable for the horse?

thanks for everyones opinions


----------



## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

RiosDad said:


> A horse's back should not have more then 1 pound per square inch. A typical western saddle is lucky , the bare tree that is, is lucky to have 60 square inches of area actually carrying weight. I measure 2 trees a few months ago when I pulled them from new saddles for custom fitting on the horse.
> I am 190 without the saddle or about 210 with a saddle. Divide 210 by 60 and you get 3.5 psi. Still way too much.
> I rode in a custom trooper for 20 years that had over 300 square inches of support or under 1 psi and although I rode at 220 pounds and over 30,000 miles not once did I run into a back problem. I kept the psi down.
> A 120 pound girl with butt bones pressing into the horse can make for a very uncomfortable ride for the horse and if IF a person could honestly ride for any length of time bareback and at speed, like a good working trot or lope it would not be good for the horse. The saddle spreads the load and makes sure that no extreme pressure points dig into the back.
> ...


i think how you work a horse is different from how i work a horse  
i ride in a arena, to work the horse we dont walk trot canter for long periods of time, We collect the horse up (which i can and do do bareback, haha i said do do) and we make them use their back legs and 'sit' on their bum, which if done correctly to a horse being taught this, five minutes of this at trot or canter can be a workout.


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

ridergirl23 said:


> i think how you work a horse is different from how i work a horse
> i ride in a arena, to work the horse we dont walk trot canter for long periods of time, We collect the horse up (which i can and do do bareback, haha i said do do) and we make them use their back legs and 'sit' on their bum, which if done correctly to a horse being taught this, five minutes of this at trot or canter can be a workout.


My idea of a good workout is a nice 10 mile lope. In the winter I catch a snowmobile trial running north, pick up a nice lope and basically hold it for 1 1/2 hours. I then turn around and lope home in about 1 1/4 hours. 
In the summer I walk out the lane, pick up a lope and hold it around a big block, I lope right back to the laneway, dismount, loosen the girth and walk the horse in. This was my old guy, the chesnut.
My new youngster works almost daily, 8-10 miles at a nice working trot.
You are not harming a horse with your weight or your light workout.


----------



## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

RiosDad said:


> My idea of a good workout is a nice 10 mile lope. In the winter I catch a snowmobile trial running north, pick up a nice lope and basically hold it for 1 1/2 hours. I then turn around and lope home in about 1 1/4 hours.
> In the summer I walk out the lane, pick up a lope and hold it around a big block, I lope right back to the laneway, dismount, loosen the girth and walk the horse in. This was my old guy, the chesnut.
> My new youngster works almost daily, 8-10 miles at a nice working trot.
> You are not harming a horse with your weight or your light workout.


that soudns liek a fun workout, lol but im stuck in the arena all winter:-(
haha there is only one horse i know that i could trot for a mile or two, and she is the roundest, fattest comfiest hrose ever, lol, like riding a fireside chair. I usually only fool around when i ride bareback, but once or twice i have had a intense collected workout for about 45 minutes.... i didnt get out of bed the next day. :wink:


----------



## whitetrashwarmblood (Aug 24, 2008)

RiosDad said:


> Pick a good working trot and hold it for 30 minutes would reduce any bareback rider to mush or even pick a lope and hold it for 30 minutes over hills, up and down and your bareback riding will again be reduced to mush.


I have actually been to a few jumping clinics bareback for almost 1 1/2 hours. 
It's possible to ride bareback for longer periods w/o just walking, just takes practice. :wink:


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

whitetrashwarmblood said:


> I have actually been to a few jumping clinics bareback for almost 1 1/2 hours.
> It's possible to ride bareback for longer periods w/o just walking, just takes practice. :wink:


You attended a jumping clinic and you showed up bareback???
Not very smart.
whitetrachwarmblood how old are you??


----------



## savvylover112 (Jul 17, 2009)

I ride bareback all the time as posted before by riosdad about a good working trot for half an hour I have done that maybe longer sometimes bareback and it has not reduced me to mush lol and I have done some pretty intense work bareback as well. Also I agree with riosdad on the fact that if your horse is not sweating after a bareback ride then you have not made your horse work because after a proper workout bareback both myself and my horse are sweating.


----------



## New_image (Oct 27, 2007)

Back when we only had Molly many many years ago she was the double queen. We road double everywhere with or without a saddle. She is 23 now and no worse for the wear - still my primary riding horse and fit, sound, happy, fat and healthy. Shes a stocky 15hh QH, not real big. However... we were 80-100 pounds a piece soaking wet at the time.


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

savvylover112 said:


> I ride bareback all the time as posted before by riosdad about a good working trot for half an hour I have done that maybe longer sometimes bareback and it has not reduced me to mush lol and I have done some pretty intense work bareback as well. Also I agree with riosdad on the fact that if your horse is not sweating after a bareback ride then you have not made your horse work because after a proper workout bareback both myself and my horse are sweating.


I've rode bareback alot myself but I don't feel it is the way to work a horse properly. You are sloppy and this is not directed at you savvylover.
Some times I just take my old endurance horse out in the outdoor arena in the winter and with only a single lead off the halter jump on him and put him into a slow laid back lope around and around the arena doing flying changes every 5 minutes to work both sides. But this is just on a level arena, no uphills, no downhills, no pushing forward one minute then back the next, just an even pace of level ground.
If you haven't felt the salt between your legs, the burn sensation then you obviously have never really worked a horse bareback. Your warm body clamped to his creates heat, sweat, salt and it burns after a while and you walk like you crapped your pants.
If you haven't experience this then you have not truely ridden bareback.


----------



## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

RiosDad said:


> I've rode bareback alot myself but I don't feel it is the way to work a horse properly. You are sloppy


That is entirely untrue. I ride my mare quite often bareback, and we usually stick to riding in my pasture, but we ride for upwards of two hours, working on collection and whatnot, and my horse responds a million times better to me bareback than she does in the saddle, and we get our best work in when we aren't all tacked up. I have the ability to ride with my back straight, my legs still, and my seat staying on the horse bareback, and since my horse can feel me better, she practically responds to a clenching of my butt. She is getting worked properly, and we are in no way sloppy about it. If both of us are sore the next day, how can you say we weren't working properly? Just because we don't take trails for several hours or hold the same pace for several miles doesn't mean she isn't working and working well. We are not an endurance team, we are dressage riders and jumpers. 

And as far as whitetrashwarmbloods post, it is very likely that her clinic was MEANT to be bareback. Her age is completely irrelevant.


----------



## savvylover112 (Jul 17, 2009)

RiosDad said:


> I've rode bareback alot myself but I don't feel it is the way to work a horse properly. You are sloppy and this is not directed at you savvylover.
> Some times I just take my old endurance horse out in the outdoor arena in the winter and with only a single lead off the halter jump on him and put him into a slow laid back lope around and around the arena doing flying changes every 5 minutes to work both sides. But this is just on a level arena, no uphills, no downhills, no pushing forward one minute then back the next, just an even pace of level ground.
> If you haven't felt the salt between your legs, the burn sensation then you obviously have never really worked a horse bareback. Your warm body clamped to his creates heat, sweat, salt and it burns after a while and you walk like you crapped your pants.
> If you haven't experience this then you have not truely ridden bareback.


Oh I know it was not directed at me but I am just wondering how do you find it sloppy?
Well then I guess I have truly ridden bareback because I have had this experience when riding my mare bareback lol


----------



## horseluver50 (Mar 19, 2009)

> I've rode bareback alot myself but I don't feel it is the way to work a horse properly. You are sloppy and this is not directed at you savvylover.
> Some times I just take my old endurance horse out in the outdoor arena in the winter and with only a single lead off the halter jump on him and put him into a slow laid back lope around and around the arena doing flying changes every 5 minutes to work both sides. But this is just on a level arena, no uphills, no downhills, no pushing forward one minute then back the next, just an even pace of level ground.
> If you haven't felt the salt between your legs, the burn sensation then you obviously have never really worked a horse bareback. Your warm body clamped to his creates heat, sweat, salt and it burns after a while and you walk like you crapped your pants.
> If you haven't experience this then you have not truely ridden bareback.


Whenever you say how to work a horse properly.. uphill/downhill is not the only way to work a horse, maybe for endurance or competitive trail riding.
But, you dont think that dressage riders are working their horses, because they are on flat ground? Or western riders, english, pretty much everyone else riding in an arena.
There is more to riding than just going fast, you can be going at a trot, collecting, bending etc, and be getting more of a workout then if you were cantering normally.


----------



## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

For all of you anti double bareback people - there is a western pleasure class called Tandem Bareback. Two riders - in sync - on one horse. Can be very beautiful to watch.


----------



## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

horseluver50 said:


> Whenever you say how to work a horse properly.. uphill/downhill is not the only way to work a horse, maybe for endurance or competitive trail riding.
> But, you dont think that dressage riders are working their horses, because they are on flat ground? Or western riders, english, pretty much everyone else riding in an arena.
> There is more to riding than just going fast, you can be going at a trot, collecting, bending etc, and be getting more of a workout then if you were cantering normally.


thank you for that! lol im a dressage rider


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

horseluver50 said:


> Whenever you say how to work a horse properly.. uphill/downhill is not the only way to work a horse, maybe for endurance or competitive trail riding.
> But, you dont think that dressage riders are working their horses, because they are on flat ground? Or western riders, english, pretty much everyone else riding in an arena.
> There is more to riding than just going fast, you can be going at a trot, collecting, bending etc, and be getting more of a workout then if you were cantering normally.


I spent the 80's riding jumpers. That meant alot of ring work but I still put 70 or so miles a week on her keeping he in peak condition. I couldn't see spending all her life going round and round so 4 times a week we ran roads and trail building her mind and body.
I live right next door to a high end dressage stable, 50 plus horses and I have never NEVER seen one of them leave the property other then trailered. I do see a small group walking the 200 yards to the road but there is a gate at the road so they remain at all times behind a fence.
To me it is like learning to drive in a parking lot and NEVER actually driving on the road. Become the best parking lot driver you want but never taking it to the street seems pointless.


----------



## horseluver50 (Mar 19, 2009)

> I spent the 80's riding jumpers. That meant alot of ring work but I still put 70 or so miles a week on her keeping he in peak condition. I couldn't see spending all her life going round and round so 4 times a week we ran roads and trail building her mind and body.
> I live right next door to a high end dressage stable, 50 plus horses and I have never NEVER seen one of them leave the property other then trailered. I do see a small group walking the 200 yards to the road but there is a gate at the road so they remain at all times behind a fence.
> To me it is like learning to drive in a parking lot and NEVER actually driving on the road. Become the best parking lot driver you want but never taking it to the street seems pointless.


That is just your opinion on the way you like to ride. Some people dont like trail riding, or their horse isnt good for trails.. that doesnt mean that they dont do any work, because they are in an arena..
Lots of people dont have access to trails either, riding in an arena does build their mind and body if you know what you're doing.


----------



## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

horseluver50 said:


> That is just your opinion on the way you like to ride. Some people dont like trail riding, or their horse isnt good for trails.. that doesnt mean that they dont do any work, because they are in an arena..
> Lots of people dont have access to trails either, riding in an arena does build their mind and body if you know what you're doing.


Exactly.


----------



## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

horseluver50 said:


> or their horse isnt good for trails.. that doesnt mean that they dont do any work, because they are in an arena..
> Lots of people dont have access to trails either, riding in an arena does build their mind and body if you know what you're doing.


How, pray tell, could a horse not be good for trails??? That just sounds like a lame excuse... To stick around the barn and in your comfort zone...

And I think he meant, doesn't build mind and body nearly as much as trails, not that it does not at all. Which if you think about it, horses are not meant to be kept indoors and on dirt and bedding their whole lives, they are meant to be out in nature. 


When you keep them confined to an arena and maybe a paddock, they do not get very much mental stimulation no matter how much you change up the routine, they are always looking at the same scenery and never having to interact with it. When you are trail riding, you are always seeing and interacting with different things and going over different terrain, this is very beneficial to animals that are by nature nomadic and ever moving.

Oh, and BTW, when you post on this forum, you are opening yourself up to EVERYONES opinion, and have no need to get snotty about it.


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

horseluver50 said:


> Lots of people dont have access to trails either, riding in an arena does build their mind and body if you know what you're doing.


Again I have spent years and years in an arena. both jumpers and reining but if POSSIBLE to make a well rounded horse they should be taken out in the real world. Yes you might be timid, afraid and feel you need the 4 walls around you but honestly for the horses good don't you think he would like to get out, travel new trails, interact with life???
Depending on the person but if there is car access to the barn where you horse is there is an out for you IF you are confident enough to take it.
Spend days in the arena and other days getting him/her out.

There is far more to a good trail horse then most of you think, far more work to make a good one then the name implies.. TRAIL HORSE?? Doesn't sound too impressive but it is alot of work to make a good one.

I am going to run a post next week on what the perfect trail horse is.


----------



## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

Honeysuga said:


> Oh, and BTW, when you post on this forum, you are opening yourself up to EVERYONES opinion, and have no need to get snotty about it.


 i didnt see her being snotty at all



Honeysuga said:


> How, pray tell, could a horse not be good for trails??? That just sounds like a lame excuse... To stick around the barn and in your comfort zone....


 THIS was a little snotty....



Honeysuga said:


> And I think he meant, doesn't build mind and body nearly as much as trails, not that it does not at all. Which if you think about it, horses are not meant to be kept indoors and on dirt and bedding their whole lives, they are meant to be out in nature.


horses are not meant to be with humans, or ridden, or driven, or alone. so to say that you arent building something as much just because youre inside is a little rediculous. everything you do with a horse builds mind...


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

AlmagroN said:


> horses are not meant to be with humans, or ridden, or driven, or alone. so to say that you arent building something as much just because youre inside is a little rediculous. everything you do with a horse builds mind...


Over the years I have seen the minds of alot of english horses and I don't like what I see. Overall I would say and this is from experience that trail horse seem to be better adjusted, accept easier and just all around nicer to handle.
Again I live right next door to a large dressage barn and I never see them doing anything except going round and round in a ring. How would you have liked it if your mother nailed your foot to the floor and told you to run in circles for exercise??? :lol: 
Think of what a trail horse runs into on a run today. Deep snow up to his chest at times and other times snow barely past his hooves. Good footing one minute and ice the next. Varying terrair, up hill, sliding down, tricky footing at times. Stepping over logs, small trees between the legs. Wild turkeys suddenly flying out of the trees around you. A coyote crossing right in front of you. Squirrels, rabbits darting out of the brush without warning and crossing a large wind swept field going home.:lol:
Lots of fun and then walking down the side of the highway to get to the farm lane.
This horse has seen lots of things your arena horse never sees and that is just today.
Who knows what purpose a horse was put on earth for?? I am convinced it is for me to ride.:lol:
I know I have made my horse's life better then his wild cousin.


----------



## Walkamile (Dec 29, 2008)

RiosDad said:


> Again I have spent years and years in an arena. both jumpers and reining but if POSSIBLE to make a well rounded horse they should be taken out in the real world. Yes you might be timid, afraid and feel you need the 4 walls around you but honestly for the horses good don't you think he would like to get out, travel new trails, interact with life???
> Depending on the person but if there is car access to the barn where you horse is there is an out for you IF you are confident enough to take it.
> Spend days in the arena and other days getting him/her out.
> 
> ...




Thank-you for that! And I am looking forward to your post next week.


----------



## savvylover112 (Jul 17, 2009)

^^ Me too


----------



## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Hmm.. I haven't read many replies in-depth, but here are my opinions on the topic:

1) Bareback riding is not bad for you or the horse - as long as you are balanced, and the horse does not have any issues with it either. I find it can develop a lovely independent hand, seat and leg. 

2) I do not like to see a horse ridden double for any long period of time, or at any great speeds - especially on the lumbar spine. The transverse processes of the horse's lumbar vertebrae are long, and fixed; applying pressure to these transverse processes can cause damage. 

Just my two cents


----------



## xoSonnyLove1234 (May 31, 2009)

i have done it twice..Sonny is fine..but i wouldnt do it all the time but there are facts


----------



## HorseOfCourse (Jul 20, 2009)

I think that a good arena horse is just as good as a good trail horse. I believe horses that work in the arena are safer. Why would I want to risk my horse getting a leg caught in a hole or falling on something, or even being attacked along the way when I could be working them just as hard in an arena? Sure, I could go for a trail ride here and there, but I wouldnt base my workout routines on it. Honestly, are extensive trail rides really for the horses' pleasure, or the peopls on their backs?
To get back to the subect of the thread, I think bareback is okay, and double bareback is okay for short periods of time and can be very fun.








Blue seemed to enjoy herself a lot in this class with us on her.


----------



## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

AlmagroN said:


> i didnt see her being snotty at all
> 
> 
> THIS was a little snotty....
> ...


1. That is your opinion AlmagroN, and I am glad you voiced it.

2. I was not snotty at all, I am truly curious to how in the world a horse could not be good for trail riding? Sure I may have put a few too many ?'s in my exasperation, but there was no "snot" in that question.

3. Would it make you feel better if I worded it differently? ok, I believe that trail riding is a great way to stimulate a horses mind, and IMO it is more stimulating to a horse to be outside in a varying environment than in a roundpen or arena. It is not ridiculous, your reply was a little ridiculous, but my reasoning is quite evident. When inside on a level dirt floor with walls blocking out any outside distraction, sure you can accomplish great training feats, BUT as far as real varied mental stimulation or mind building, would you rather be in a flourescent lit classroom day in day out or outside sitting on the grass? Which do you think is really more stimulating? And after all, stimulation causes synapse firing in the brain, literally causing "mind building". 
I am not saying at all that arena training is not beneficial, but it is my opinion that it is better for a horse to be exposed to trail riding and the mental stimulation and varied terrain, to produce a more mentally and physically sound and competent animal.

*Cant wait for the post next week N! I will be sure to post on it!


----------



## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I've heard theories that riding double can cause damage because you're sitting on their kidneys?

But realistically, anybody who's really opposed to riding bareback or double must think vaulting is abusive then? Yes, I'm aware it can be different, but it's still putting weight on the back end of the horse as opposed to over the wither.

Unless I see some scientifically proven evidence that riding bareback is detrimental, I refuse to believe it. Horses are very open creatures about pain and discomfort (most anyway) and they sure aren't afraid to let you know if a bit is pinching or a saddle doesn't fit right. I find 99% of the horses I've ridden bareback actually move BETTER without tack. I'm not exactly sure why, if it's my relaxation riding bareback or the freedom from leather, but it's a consistancy I've noticed.

And again RiosDad, as much as I respect your opinions sometime, just give it up with the salt thing. Just because YOU have girly sensitive skin lol doesn't mean the rest of the world does. I've been on horses bareback that are soaked in sweat after riding for three hours of trails almost entirely trotting and canter - I've never in my entire life of riding bareback regularly had my skin burn because of the sweat. Though I don't advise bareback when your horses are shedding - those **** hairs can go through EVERYTHING.

I don't think I'd ever double for long periods of time though. I'm not so much concerned with the weight on the flank area as I would be with the total weight. If it was two younger children, that's fine, but most of us are to heavy as adults to be doubling with other adults.


----------



## trIplEcrOwngIrl (May 13, 2009)

umm, just wondering is it safe for me and my little sis to ride double? She won't ride alone and together with the saddle we're problably only 180, 200 lbs max. its not for very long and only at a walk. 0_o??


----------



## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I wouldn't see a huge problem with that TripleCrownGirl, as long as the horse is accepting and it's for short periods at a time. Shay-la often rides double when small children are on the horses, she sits just behind the saddle just to be there for safety. She's only about 130lbs and the kids she rides behind are never more then 70lbs tops (she normally only does it with the really small kids). It's just for walking rides around the front yard for maybe 10-20 minutes.

I think it's good for horses to know how to double if they're trail horses anyway. You never know when you might find yourself miles from home with an injured friend!


----------



## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

Depends on your horse really. How fit is it? Is it safe to ride double(some horses spook with the second rider on)? What size is it? How are its back muscles? How old is it?

If you feel it is safe, go for it.


----------



## Ponies4Paige (Jul 21, 2009)

no problem at all!!!! if horses can carry one rider thats 250 lbs. INCLUDING THE SADDLE then riding bareback with two small people on the back just WALKING there is NO PROBLEM with that........ plus my grama is very good friends with an equine vet that mostly works with playday horses and rodeo buckin horses ya know "rodeo" horses he has 3 kids that are 5,6,8 yrs old and they ride TRIPLE on an old bay QH mare named Sissy they walk trot and walk barrels and make her do all sorts of things (under supervision of course) that horse is 22 and has NO BACK PROBLEMS!!!! just walking your horse around is perfectly fine dont worry about it


----------



## Ponies4Paige (Jul 21, 2009)

just make sure that your horses wont buck if kicked in the flanks or grasped there


----------



## trIplEcrOwngIrl (May 13, 2009)

he was a trail horse before i got him and was always riddend double. now he's just a fat pony who gets ridden mabybe 1 hr a month by me and my sis


----------



## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

I'm with macabremikolaj on this. 

My little arab used to get girth gall - So I did a LOT of bareback riding. For my K certificate in PC we had to complete a 40k ride (only a training ride endurance wise but still, compared to most peoples rides, a decent distance). I did all the training for this ride bareback so that he could wear a saddle for the actual ride (PC rules). The training was log trotting and cantering (mostly cantering - comfier!) laps of paddocks on our place, that weren't flat, were rocky, had rabbit holes, logs, long grass, erosion gullies etc. Sloppy? Yep I agree there, I was never pretty - Holding a theoretically correct position after about the first 5 minutes just doesn't work. The arms start to flap a bit and the legs inch out in front of you - but my position was still functional and balanced. But the point is - He was sound enough to compete in that 40k ride without soreness and with the best stats of the group - And im confident we could ahve turned around and gone again and still had the appropriate stats and recovery times.

I have also never experienced the sweat burn - And I have ridden horses to a lather bareback. I hae had that horrible prickly feeling when they have a decent coat - Maybe the sweat makes that worse? I have also had a bit of chafe after I get off with sweat soaked pants and walk somewhere!

Double - When I was a LOT smaller, we used to canter that same arab around the paddock double. Would I do it now? Nope. 1. I weigh a lot more! 2. I don't believe it is good for a horse to bear weight over the kidney area - Not so much because of the kidneys but because that section of the spine has to ribs sprung off it for support - It has no skeletal support system like the normal load-bearing area of the horses back. 

So I think smaller kids who both ride well forward on the horses back (The one in front gets an awful wither-wedgie!) is ok. But now, being older and wider in the derriere, I wouldn't do it.


----------



## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

Honeysuga said:


> 2. I was not snotty at all, I am truly curious to how in the world a horse could not be good for trail riding? Sure I may have put a few too many ?'s in my exasperation, but there was no "snot" in that question.


 maybe not, but now you know that its sometimes frustrating to get your point across on the internet. so before you go and get on someones case telling them that its an open forum and they have no need to get snotty, think of how your post sounded to me.... 



Honeysuga said:


> 3. Would it make you feel better if I worded it differently?


 i dont have any feeling about the subject of riding bareback really. 



Honeysuga said:


> It is not ridiculous, your reply was a little ridiculous, but my reasoning is quite evident.


 it was not ridiculous, it was realistic. we have horses working every day for us which is what they were not "naturally" born to do. no matter inside or out, neither is "natural" in all honesty because nothing they do with us is "natural"



Honeysuga said:


> BUT as far as real varied mental stimulation or mind building, would you rather be in a flourescent lit classroom day in day out or outside sitting on the grass? Which do you think is really more stimulating? And after all, stimulation causes synapse firing in the brain, literally causing "mind building".


stimulating, outside is great, but some people dont like the outdoors. what about the kid with allergies? do you think hes happy being outside sneezing his brains out?? is that helping his mind building??... all people are different as are all horses. some people could never learn a darn thing outside because they cannot focus when there is too much stimulation, some people are fine. some horses can not learn with too much stimulation, same with dogs, etc. everything is different...


----------



## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

AlmagroN said:


> stimulating, outside is great, but some people dont like the outdoors. what about the kid with allergies? do you think hes happy being outside sneezing his brains out?? is that helping his mind building??... all people are different as are all horses. some people could never learn a darn thing outside because they cannot focus when there is too much stimulation, some people are fine. some horses can not learn with too much stimulation, same with dogs, etc. everything is different...


I agree 100% here. As far as someone was saying about what horse isn't good at trails, what about horses that don't LIKE them? Horses have strong likes and dislikes just as much as people do. If you don't know your horse's, you aren't doing enough variety, in my opinion. But if your horse doesn't LIKE trails, how is it stimulating and mind building when he doesn't want to be out there? Sure, we, as owners, are supposed to make things "fun" for our horses. 

But here's an example: I do not like swimming. Not in a pool, an ocean, a lake, whatever. I do not like to swim. Sure, I can go to the pool with some friends, maybe play a game, and shoot, I may even enjoy myself a little. But next time we are going to hang out, will I suggest we go to the pool? Will I decide that swimming really isn't that bad? Of course not. I don't like it. It was okay, and I'll do it again if that's what everyone else wants to do. 

So, in the case of a horse who doesn't like trails, is it really fair/stimulating/mind-building if you're making him do something he doesn't enjoy doing?


And to touch on the doubling bareback, since that's what the whole thread is about.  I don't think anyone who plans on doubling actually plans on going out for a several hour gallop, or even a strenuous ride. It's usually a leisurely stroll.


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

I guess it is each to his own. If you are handicaped, afraid, timid, allergies, mentally challenged, etc etc you have to do what is good for you.
I am strong as are alot of people here so I do what is good for me. To me crossing a wind swept field at 20 below head on into the wind is an experience, a nipply one but an experience. These experiences build a bond between Rio and I, it builds confidence in both of us.
I also find running trail passes the time. A couple of hours and the miles slip by unnoticed. 
I once took an arena lady for a run outside, an older lady in her upper 40's and she honestly started to cry. Her horse was good but she was so afraid she just cried. I had to take her home. For her being outside her comfort zone caused her to break right down.

So each has to decide what is good for them. What is good for me is certainly not good for alot of you. It would be hard for me to post advice to anyone from a timid point of view, I am agressive, strong and that is how my posts will come across so take what I say with a gain of salt,

To the OP as I stated earlier for the little weight, the little bit of riding you are going to do bareback and double will not harm the horse in any way.
Like I also posted earlier I have done it alot myself.
Nothing like riding double and bareback with a pretty lady:lol::lol:


----------



## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

RiosDad said:


> To me crossing a wind swept field at 20 below head on into the wind is an experience, a nipply one but an experience. These experiences build a bond between Rio and I, it builds confidence in both of us.


thats awesome that you can do that. i physically can not do that because i have Raynaud's syndrome... it sucks. i cant do much in the winter outside. i still jogged my horses in the winter, but it was painful and i was on the brink of hypothermia many times...:-(


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

AlmagroN said:


> thats awesome that you can do that. i physically can not do that because i have Raynaud's syndrome... it sucks. i cant do much in the winter outside. i still jogged my horses in the winter, but it was painful and i was on the brink of hypothermia many times...:-(


Like I said you have to decide for yourself what you can and can not do. Rio and I headed out this morning as we do most mornings and the temp was minus 20 with a heavy wind. Going out it was on our backs and pushed up along , in the bush is was beautiful but again coming home which is again out in the open for about 1 1/2 miles it was heavy head wind every step of the way.
Last summer we headed out into a big thundred storm. We got could with sheet rain and heavy lightening out in the open. I went to a bush, walked him in say 50 feet and backed him up against the biggest tree I could find. I hunched my back, I was wearing a heavy rain coat and spread it over the saddle and most of his back. The rain just pelted down and the lightening was one continue bang. I thougt if he moves I will get down and hobble him but he stood with his head down and never moved a muscle for about 10 minutes, until the storm passed. I remained on his back all the time , it was warm and comfortable.
The rain stopped, the sun came out and we continued our run. Through it all he never moved, pawed or showed anxiety. He just endured, accepted. This is what I expect from and horse of mine.
I beleive for me this build a bond, the horse and I endure together. There is nothing I know of that he wouldn't do for me and I for him.
Floods , deep snow, tricky slopes, heavy brush, he will take it all in his stride because that is who he is.
If only I lived in Australia? I could be the man for snowy river. LOL:lol::lol:

AmagroN do what is good for you, do what you can but enjoy.
Have a nice day


----------



## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> If only I lived in Australia? I could be the man for snowy river. LOL:lol::lol:


It's great fun! We have one part on our place I call my 'snowy river ride' - We have a big hill with stone cliffs etc on the back part - To get the sheep out you HAVE to stop them getting around the back or the best dogs still can't get them out. The bike can't get through and the dogs aren't fast enough, so it falls to me on the horse to stop them bolting around the side of the hill and they always do it in the same place. So it's a headlong gallop, racing the sheep, straight down a steep hill through rocks, scrub, rabbit holes, logs... Bloody scary, but great fun and such an adrenalin rush. I'm with you - That is how a bond is formed, doing the scary and not so pleasant things. All my horses trust me enough to steer them down that hill flat out, and not try to take the initiative - I can see the hazards much better from up top so act accordingly. I've also been on the trail and done a dressage test out in the hail - We kept on just sidepassing so it didn't hit his face.

I think you would love Australia :]


----------



## azarni (Aug 17, 2008)

Just going to post my opinion here.
I lost access to a saddle at the beginning of August. I didn't get one until this Christmas. That's 4 full months of riding bareback. On a green Percheron that couldn't steer at anything faster than a walk.

Needless to say, my seat and legs improved 1000x because I rode bareback. I lost my fear of spooking horses - and learned REALLY QUICK the right way to stay on a spooking horse! I began working through my cantering phobia. I learned to lose all tenseness - because if I was tense, she was tense, and it was NOT comfortable to be sitting on two hard back muscles.

I think she developed a much faster understanding of my seat/legs simply because of the closer contact. We were at the point where she would transition down a gait just from the clenching of my butt. Now that I have a saddle, I'm finding it frustrating that she can't feel my seat signals as easily. I still ride her bareback about 50% of the time, and she is so much more responsive to my body language.

About riding double - I've only done that once, when my cousin came up. It was so much fun! We only rode at a walk, but Delta was completely relaxed and happy. (I'm in the back)









Also - just wanted to say that if you're riding with a proper seat, all the weight won't be focused on two butt bones. The weight is supposed to be distributed between your butt AND upper thighs, for a pretty wide base.


----------



## heyycutter (Sep 26, 2009)

i used to ride my horse bareback alot. (just walking through trails and once in a while some trotting and cantering). but, i noticed it made his back more swayed then it usually is, and im not overly big, 5'6'' and 145 pounds. so, i quit riding bareback, and his back raised a bit. i dont know if its related, it its just something i noticed


----------



## horseluver50 (Mar 19, 2009)

thanks for everyones opinions, I feel more comfortable with riding bareback with a friend now, and I have learned alot by reading your posts


----------



## HorseOfCourse (Jul 20, 2009)

I dont think I've said it yet, but congrats on the new horse!
If you want to ask any more questions about doubling bareback without all the controversy..or about anything for that matter feel free to message me. I have competed in double bareback classes, and all the horses were fine, so youre good.


----------



## whitetrashwarmblood (Aug 24, 2008)

RiosDad said:


> You attended a jumping clinic and you showed up bareback???
> Not very smart.
> whitetrachwarmblood how old are you??


I'm 19.


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

Walkamile said:


> [/b]
> 
> Thank-you for that! And I am looking forward to your post next week.


As promised

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/gentlemans-horse-44283/#post510936


----------



## savvylover112 (Jul 17, 2009)

^^ Yay go Riosdad


----------



## SmoothTrails (Oct 1, 2009)

I don't ride bareback very often, but I have definitely found that it improves my seat. I can always tell if a horse is uncomfortable. Ours will let you know by refusing to go, fly kicking, or not moving in their normal manner. It teaches a much better seat and it definitely helps with your confidence after realizing you can deal with it all without a saddle, so a saddle can help you that much more.


----------



## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

as everyone here knows i dont really ride. ive hopped on a few horses and walked or trotted a little... but i dont know how to REALLY ride...

i do have this to say about bareback:

my broodmare was the first horse i ever rode.. she actually moved. i had sat on a clyde before, but he didnt move :lol:. so i get a bridle with a snaffle and lines on my big ol mare... and attempt to get up there. need less to say i ended up standing on a picnic table to get on :lol: so we walked bareback. trotted a little.... it was nice. i enjoyed being on her and feeling so connected. we just walked and did a little trot. thats all. i got off after a while and smiled. 

the next day i went to get on her again.... probably made QUITE a face, and i got right back off... my mother says "whats wrong" i said "i think my whole crotch and butt is bruised!!!" she laughed at me and said "yeah shes got a bit of a razor back huh?"... now i had never understood really what a razor back was, until i felt that. she was not a riding horse prior, she was a harness racehorse. 

i just will say i will NEVER forget that pain!

but i will say since then i do enjoy the feeling of being bareback, and just about every horse i have "rode" has been bareback.


----------



## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

**** @ Almagron!

I know your pain girl! When I was a kid, it was so hard for me to convince a family member to stop drinking a dang beer and come tack up a horse for me, I just took to climbing onto our most dependable Arabian broodmare with nothing but a halter. Unfortunately, years of being a broodmare gave her the most god awful jutting spine you've ever seen. Everytime I rode, I swear I couldn't pee without it hurting for a week :lol: Being a skinny little 7 year old doesn't give you even the slightest form of protection from old horse spines!


----------



## SmoothTrails (Oct 1, 2009)

HAHA my favorite to ride is a broodmare at home, but ours have really good toplines still, so its not a big thing. They're so round its pretty nice to ride them....lol. They get ridden between foals and are all on psture 24/7. They're pretty nice mares to ride. 

My little brother has a TB gelding with a friggin razor back...lol. You couldn't pay me to ride him bareback.


----------



## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

haha yeah. well im not skinny or little and it still hurt so bad, i couldnt image being all boney!!!! when i was little and saw horses, i always thought that a swayback was just normal because they were riding horses, when i got older and understood i was disgusted at how many bad ones i had seen over the years and never knew..... i dont want my mare to have a sway back... but man... atleast a little sympathy for your rider with the spine girl!!!!:lol:


----------



## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

She never actually developed much of a swayback, just being in her mid-20's when I was a kid and years of pregnancy had caused the muscles around her spine to droop a bit I suppose? Her actual back wasn't swayed, she just had a god awful protruding spine!


----------



## SmoothTrails (Oct 1, 2009)

I know what you mean. I have the opposite problem. It is like riding on a HUGE drum or ball.


----------



## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

i love riding my mare when shes pregnant. its like being on a boat! wooooom, woooom, wooooom, wooooom.... that big ol belly swaying back and forth lol


----------



## Crimsonhorse01 (Sep 8, 2009)

I have to say I learned to ride bareback in a group that ONLY rode bareback. We also doubled up, allot. We went through all gaits, jumped, anything we could possibly think of. All the horses are still in excellent health and going strong. Some are now in the 20s, one is 26, they are mistaken for being in their teens. Bareback is much safer, the horse carries less weight, works better, you have better communication, and you become a better rider.


----------



## equineangel91 (Oct 8, 2008)

I think variants make a huge difference. I have a standardbred at 16.3 at 1190 . I doubled bareback on him once, not only did he not care, he enjoyed walking about. However I did not do anything more than walk and it was for no longer than 10 minutes. Honestly i wouldnt push past that. At a walk fine...personally, push it past that....and i dont think its good for your horse. So keep that in mind. Also keep in mind your size, im 5"2 not a big girl and so was my friend, really little. Listen to your horse when it comes to that. I just wouldnt really make it a habit


----------



## horseluver50 (Mar 19, 2009)

> I dont think I've said it yet, but congrats on the new horse!
> If you want to ask any more questions about doubling bareback without all the controversy..or about anything for that matter feel free to message me. I have competed in double bareback classes, and all the horses were fine, so youre good.


Thank you! I love my horse  Thank you, I will for sure ask you if I have any more questions.. thats very kind of you :]


----------

