# Buckskin? Dun? or Dunskin?



## Supermane (Sep 23, 2007)

Maybe a dunskin?


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I think he's a dunskin or dun- that dorsal stripe gives it away!


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## Dvine (Aug 26, 2008)

I think he could be a dunskin he's really purrdy though =]


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## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

Here is a little color lesson.... 

A buckskin is basically a bay that has a single dilute cream gene which acts on the color by making it 'lighter' (just like it would make a chestnut into a palomino). If the 'bay' were to have two dilute genes it would end up being a perlino (and the chestnut would be a cremello). 

The "dun" factor also dilutes the color but it lightens from the knee area up towards the backbone, leaving color on the backbone, or what we call a dorsal stripe. So in order for a horse to genetically be a dun, it must have a dorsal stripe. 

Some "bay" horses can have a single dilute cream gene AND the dun factor, making it a dunskin. 

So since your horse has a dorsal stripe he's definitely not a buckskin. He could be a dun or a dunskin. 

Either way, he's adorable!


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## amigo82 (Aug 23, 2008)

upnover said:


> So since your horse has a dorsal stripe he's definitely not a buckskin. He could be a dun or a dunskin.
> 
> Either way, he's adorable!


thankyou  I'll love him no matter what he is  

Is it a true dorsal stripe or is it counter shading?

http://www.equinecolor.com/photos/counterdorsal.jpg










The other horse( Rowdy, a bay roan) looks like he has countershading.. unfortunately not the best shot of Amigo's stripe.









Also, is it even possible to register a horse as 'dunskin' or would it just be one or the other? Buttermilk buckskin or Buttermilk dun?

As of right now he isn't registered anywhere and I wanted to get him some sort of papers, if nothing else just a generic registration to prove he's mine. And to help with identification incase he ever got out or was stolen (hopefully never happens!!)


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## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

You know it is a little faint.... but in my opinion (OPINION! ) I think it's too pronounced (faint as it is) to be countershading. Most of the countershading I've seen is a little blurrier around the edges. But, I'm not an expert in it! And it's hard to tell from a picture. 

Can you register a horse as "buttermilk" something? I thought either it was a buckskin or a dun, what "kind" didn't matter. And is "buttermilk" a technical term? I thought it was something people used to describe a lighter colored buckskin. Like I said, not an expert in the registry/details! I just took an extensive genetics class in college.  If all else fails, could you register him as a paint? He's definitely a paint!


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## amigo82 (Aug 23, 2008)

upnover said:


> If all else fails, could you register him as a paint? He's definitely a paint!


haha  I never even thought to register him as a paint! I can't go wrong there.. Well he's actually a quarter horse/paint so I couldn't even get full credit for it then either! :lol: 
I think you're right, not sure you can do the 'buttermilk' thing in registering. 
I value your opinion...as I took NO genetics classes in college whatsoever hahaha I went for graphic design so you'd think I'd know about color?? Oh well!
For now, I'll stick with calling him a Dunskin. That way I don't have to completely commit to either color :wink: Hopefully 'dunskin' will count if/when I register him. I don't really have any info on his parents so I don't think I would be able to register in any major associations anyways.

thankyou so much for all your help


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## Supermane (Sep 23, 2007)

Actually, an aqha x apha horses can be registered as a full paint.


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## Gingerrrrr (Feb 12, 2008)

hes adorable!


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## amigo82 (Aug 23, 2008)

Supermane said:


> Actually, an aqha x apha horses can be registered as a full paint.


Where could I register him without any info on his sire/dam? Seems like that info is a requirement


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

A dorsal by itself does not mean it is a dun. My bay has a dorsal and is not a dun. Dorsals can be caused by the dun gene or by countershading (which is the smutty/sooty gene). 

However, if you look closely in the pictures it looks like there is very light leg barring, there is obvious frosting and guard hairs on the tail, and looks like shadowing on the neck. I would say he is carrying for the dun gene.

However, whether he is carrying the creme gene (making him a dunskin) is really hard to know for sure without knowing parentage or having genetic testing done. I suspect he is because his dorsal and leg barring look to be lighter than what you would find on a normal dun. However, all we can do is suspect, you can only know if you actually get the genetic testing done since a bay dun and a dunskin can look very similar.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

amigo82 said:


> Supermane said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, an aqha x apha horses can be registered as a full paint.
> ...


You really can't. There are a few registries that may take him - maybe the american pinto association or the likes? But really, they are not worth it and those papers wouldn't ad any worth to him. The registries with prestige that would add value would require parent's information at a minimum.


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## amigo82 (Aug 23, 2008)

Cat said:


> You really can't. There are a few registries that may take him - maybe the american pinto association or the likes? But really, they are not worth it and those papers wouldn't ad any worth to him. The registries with prestige that would add value would require parent's information at a minimum.


Not even just a generic registration? I'm not really looking to add value or prestige really. I don't do any shows or anything like that, Amigo is just used for trail riding mostly. I was just looking to give him some sort of identity.
I'm not sure how legit this site is or anything, but I found it doing a search on yahoo http://www.igha.org/registra.html
Some kind of proof of ownership and/or records of his markings would be nice, thats all 

p.s.
Love The Last Unicorn pic  That was my favorite movie when I was a kid!


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## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

I don't know if this is exactly what you're looking for, but do you have a current coggins drawn on him? The paper has a 'copy' of your horse's markings (well, they give you a generic outline and you draw the markings yourself) and it has your name on it. So you do have some sort of record of owning him. Or you could look into microchipping.


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## amigo82 (Aug 23, 2008)

I don't have any papers on him at all really. Just the farm's records of when he's due for his worming and last time he saw the vet and a farrier etc. I got him from a place that does trail rides.


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## free_sprtd (Oct 18, 2007)

hey amigo...how did you make your siggy?


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## amigo82 (Aug 23, 2008)

free_sprtd said:


> hey amigo...how did you make your siggy?


Hello  I used the editing tools at photobucket.com
I have a couple other ones I made with Photoshop, but this one i made just using the 'add a sticker' and 'add text' tools in the edit image section of photobucket.


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## Mambo (Sep 25, 2008)

Your horse has several modifying coat colour genes at work. To start with, his two base coat genes are either black and red or black and black (since black is dominant over red/chestnut, he will look same whether there is chestnut there or not.)

CREAM His coat colour indicates that the cream gene is present, as this is the classic buckskin colour (gold coat, black points). 

AGOUTI The fact that he is a pale buckskin colour and not brown buckskin or black buckskin indicates that bay agouti is present (agouti is the colour modifier that inhibits black to the points and distributes red through the coat - bay agouti creates bays, brown agouti creates browns - agouti can be DNA identified but it hasn't yet been identified as bay and brown agouti). 

DUN The number of dun factors indicates that the horse carries the dun gene - the disntinctive dorsal stripe along with the pale guard hairs in the mane, the dark points to the ears and what looks like pale leg barring indicate true dun.

OVERO The broad blaze and white over the nose and body splashes of white indicate the possible presence of overo (OLWS - overo lethal white syndrome)... he may not be overo, but I would suspect that gene is present.

SABINO The white under lip and jagged top to his sock and stockings indicate the possible presence of sabino.

You could easily test for any or all of these genes in any of the U.S. colour genetics labs if you wanted to really know beyond doubt what colour modifying genes are present in your horse. In Dilutes Australia (the only registry in the world to register all dilution genes) he would not get registered in the solid dilute registries because of the broken coloured gene/s but he would probably get described as an overo buckskin dun. Solid buckskin duns get registered in our Dun registry.


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## amigo82 (Aug 23, 2008)

Wow :shock: 
Thank you so much for all that info, Mambo! I really appreciate you taking the time to go into so much detail  That helps a bunch!


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## hrsrdr (Jul 12, 2008)

*Paint Dunskin*

He has some paint markings, is too light to be a buckskin, and has a faint dorsal stripe, but no leg bars--I say paint-dunskin!


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## irisheyes12 (May 19, 2008)

In my opinion that is a Dun Overo  Without the parents you'd have to have him UC Davis tested to get an honest answer but he looks Dun to me.


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