# Buck Brannaman Clinic



## kewpalace

Pi and I were fortunate enough to get a spot in Buck Brannaman's 3-day Cow Clinic last weekend. He did horsemanship in the morning and then the cows & roping (which we did not do) in the afternoon. We started off pretty sorry on Friday - Pi was very emotional and extremely cow fresh and was bouncing around like a jumping bean in the herd. It was NOT pretty or fun. On Saturday, I put Pi in her snaffle. After about a 1/2 hour of Mr. Toad's Wild Ride warming up and doing fundamentals, she started going really nicely and just improved the rest of the weekend. 

The Cow Clinic you have to work individually, so got more feedback from Buck on an individual basis in that respect. On Sunday, Pi's first run in the herd was pretty darn good. We got a few good cows cut from the herd that let her show her stuff and boy did she! Here was her 1st move on the cow on Sunday ... she caught me by surprise with how BIG she moved! I almost fell off, LOL! 










I was happy that we did not lose any of our cows Saturday or Sunday and got "Good Job!" from Buck on both days.

We were at the morning Horsemanship session too and what he was telling the riders there, applied to what we were doing in the cow working session, so I was grateful to have a clue before hand and had some extra tools to use to warm up with. There were all levels of horses and riders in the cow working session. Everyone got equal time on the cows.

Buck's actual methods are not that far off from my general trainer's methods, so it tied in nicely to what we are doing already. It is always good for me to hear things in a little different way to solidify (or not) what we are already doing. After Friday, I really enjoyed the weekend and riding with Buck. He does not mince words and will tell you what he thinks if you asked him to. Some people can't take it and some people think he's rude. That's OK & they are certainly entitled to their opinion; for me, it was just a great experience to be able to ride with such a horseman. I will say that if you have a horseman you admire, you owe it to yourself to do what you can to ride with them.  You won't regret the experience, even if you end up not liking them (which has never happened to me). Life is short; go enjoy it!


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## tinyliny

did you write up notes to share?


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## kewpalace

No, Sorry @tinyliny. I'm not a note taker. 

Most of what he was telling us and having everyone do in the horsemanship session/portion of the cow work session is pretty basic stuff that most trainers generally do. Buck's main thrust is to give the horse a good feel to make the try of what you are asking him and support that feel/try so the horse wants to stay with you and continue trying. So reward the smallest try and when he's consistent with that ask for more. And continue until you eventually end up with your bridle horse!  He's not opposed to using more emphasis (he does not use "force" as he does not believe in forcing a horse to do anything) when the horse blows you off - so a blocking leg (a spur used PROPERLY is the LAST resort), a firmer pull (never jerk) to get the horse to pay attention and give it a TRY. He is all about very time you ask a horse to do something, you do it with PURPOSE and consistently - if you pick up a rein it should have a purpose; don't pick it up without asking something of the horse. He had the horsemanship class doing circles, serpentines, back/roll over the hocks, leg yields and a few other things, but some people were just not getting it - he was talking technicalities of doing the maneuvers and few people were doing that; they were just walking a circle (or other maneuver) w/out purpose or direction or asking their horse to be precise but not nagging at it. Ask and let go; ask and let go, ask and let go, to infinity and beyond until the horse is doing it without asking. It is HARD to do correctly, so probably they did not get much out of it. 

It was all basic stuff which NO ONE, including myself, could do consistently. And you can't get it done in a weekend clinic. He knows that & doesn't expect everyone to get it right during the clinic; he's giving us something to take home and work on. Which we could work on for years, if you were really paying attention. He was more than open to questions and answered each one with considered thoughtful responses. I know I'll be practicing alot of what he went over with us, with Pi.


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## walkinthewalk

Buck brannaman and Mark Rashid are about the only two trainers I have any respect for.

If the person is good at what they do and has the ability to get their point across to me, they can be as rude as they want. I suspect that, after all these years, it's more exasperation than out right rudeness, lol

When I was a young adult, a lot of people would not use the best vet/surgeon in our area because they thought he was rude to them. My terse reply was I didn't care how nasty he wanted to be with me, just make my horse better. I was paying him for what he knew, not how well he conversed or how sharp his tongue was, lol

Both horses look to be the same height --- Buck is TALL!


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## Avna

walkinthewalk said:


> <snip>
> 
> Both horses look to be the same height --- Buck is TALL!


Maybe Kewpalace is a midget!

Just kidding. He really is tall.


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## kewpalace

walkinthewalk said:


> If the person is good at what they do and has the ability to get their point across to me, they can be as rude as they want. I suspect that, after all these years, it's more exasperation than out right rudeness, lol


I suppose rudeness is subjective; there are things some might think is rude that I don't necessarily. I won't give my money to a person I consider rude. Too many other good horsemen/women out there (many who are not famous, but well known in their disciplines) who are more than willing to help you out without being rude and/or unkind. 

I didn't think Buck was rude to anyone at this clinic, although I've heard people on various boards say in the past say he was. My take on him was that he does not suffer fools lightly, doesn't suffer your getting angry/frustrated and taking it out on your horse and if you ask his opinion on something, he'll give it even if it is not in the PC way you may like. I liked him. 




walkinthewalk said:


> Both horses look to be the same height --- Buck is TALL!





Avna said:


> Maybe Kewpalace is a midget!


:rofl: Ladies, you are killing me! LOL ... :rofl: It's a very skewed perspective pic - his horse is taller than Pi by a few inches. Buck isn't that tall, but the majority of people are taller than me (except a midget, LOL). I'm vertically challenged. :-? He also has better posture than me, LOL. When I was looking at the pix I took of him working a cow on his Metallic Cat stud, his upper body never moves; Mine is like a monkey on a border collier, LOL ... But I did actually sit better this time around. 

I'll post some more pix later ...


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## kewpalace

Some more pix of Pi and I ...


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## kewpalace

I'll post some of Buck on his Metallic Cat stallion later; have to get them off my iPad.


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## Smilie

What a great opportunity,kewpalace. Pictures are good also.
Don't feel bad, far as being vertically challenged , as a friend of ours who raises and shows working cowhorses with her husband, is only 5" 1"
Walkin, you sure have a narrow range of trainers that you respect! Guess I am lucky to count quite a few, and not limited to the well know trainers whose major focus is on giving clinics. Rashid is not among them, for me.


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## jenkat86

Wow. What an opportunity!


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## walkinthewalk

Smilie said:


> What a great opportunity,kewpalace. Pictures are good also.
> Don't feel bad, far as being vertically challenged , as a friend of ours who raises and shows working cowhorses with her husband, is only 5" 1"
> Walkin, you sure have a narrow range of trainers that you respect! Guess I am lucky to count quite a few, and not limited to the well know trainers whose major focus is on giving clinics. Rashid is not among them, for me.


Maybe I've just seen some bad examples. There's a lot I disagree with.

I once saw Pat Parelli give his personal stallion a jerkin' - and rake the Spurs across him. The horse didn't do anything to deserve that kind of treatment.

What rankles me about most of them is they start out in the right mind of wanting to honestly help ------ then success comes along and they become nothing more than Marketeers trying to figure out the best way to hawk their wares. Quality teaching becomes secondary.

That is the bulk of why I have little respect for most of them.

I like Mark Rashid in his early days and have several of his early books. I have a feeling he, too, has been caught up in the marketeering ways of the other trainers.

far as home grown so-called professional trainers - I know some doozies-------------


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## Smilie

Hi Walkin
Yes, I am sure those of us that have been in the hrose business long enough, know local trainers that are both good, where you feel okay leaving a horse, and those you would not even send a horse you did not like
In fact, I know a reining trainer, who used to be around her locally, even taught western horsemanship at the local college, who wreaked horses, including one of mine.
I think I wrote that saga before, how he decided my two year old needed to be thrown, and when I was too young and stupid to say no. Long story short, he used ahard lariat, screwed up, and burned her one back leg tot he tendon.
She did not even deserve to be thrown, as her only crime, was that she kicked out slightly in protest, when he applied his huge boot to have her pick up the right lead for the first time.
I had started her in our snowy field, and had been walking and jogging her all over the fields, but had no ground to start her loping.

I this took her to his evening colt starting clinic, after it was going already for some time, figuring my horse would be at about the same level, and I could have the ground to start her loping.
She was ahead of the rest, who just rode little circles at one end of the arena.
I got her loping on the left lead, but could not get that right lead. In those days, I did not know much about setting a horse up correctly for a lead. Anyway, he got on, booted her hard, and she just kicked out a bit.
Guess he needed ahorse to practice throwing. Anyway, he had also told me that my old saddle did not fit correctly, thus the next evening I got there early, riding in my show saddle, and hoping when he saw how well she was going, would forget his agenda.
Nope> He told me to bring her over to him, as he was going to throw her. To this day, I wish I had the guts in those days to simply say no, but instead I just said, 'I have my show saddle on her'
He told me it would not hurt my saddle, so I let him follow the demo he was determined to execute.
Anyway, after she went down, he sat on her, thumped her all over, while his 'students' watched, and said,'she needs more of this;. \
When she got up, she was three legged lame. Did he apologize even, admit his mistake? No, he started to swear, saying she belonged on the meat wagon, and at that point, as my horse stood shaking in pain, I finally grew up.
I took him in front of the college board, and when people heard I was doing so, came out of the woodwork , with stories of their horses he had ruined
Sad thing is, some 30 years later, he is still training horses.
I can continue, with stories from friends who sent hrose out, but the sad thing is,anyone can call themselves atrainer, and it takes initiation through the school of hard knocks it seems, to weed through them
Far as Buck, I watched the video on Youtube and liked most of what I saw, except how he handled that aggressive stallion, and I think, set the guy that got on his back, while the hrose was restrained by one back leg, to get attacked
His working cowhorse stuff on the end, to me, lacked some of the finesse of some of the good working cowhorse trainers locally, but then that is only my opinion, based on a very short segment


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## kewpalace

Smilie said:


> What a great opportunity,kewpalace. Pictures are good also.


 Thanks Smilie!



Smilie said:


> Don't feel bad, far as being vertically challenged , as a friend of ours who raises and shows working cowhorses with her husband, is only 5" 1"


Just my size! No, I don't feel bad. I am what I am and I can't change it, nor do I necessarily want to. Good things come in small packages, eh? LOL ... I'm quite content with my height ...



Smilie said:


> His working cowhorse stuff on the end, to me, lacked some of the finesse of some of the good working cowhorse trainers locally, but then that is only my opinion, based on a very short segment


Buck technically is not "working cowhorse" trainer but "ranch cowhorse". His whole program is geared to the horse working on a ranch, not a competition cow horse. So the way the horse works the cow & roping is very different than what we would do at a show. It's all very slow/deliberate and more functional, so no spins or sliding stops, or flashy turns. That's why it lacks finesse since you don't need finesse on the ranch.  That's why we went really, since I need lots of slow work for Pi. She wants to work the cow soooooo bad and gets in a rush. Get her slowed down with some of the ranch work and we can add the finesse to her later.


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## Smilie

kewpalace said:


> Thanks Smilie!
> 
> Just my size! No, I don't feel bad. I am what I am and I can't change it, nor do I necessarily want to. Good things come in small packages, eh? LOL ... I'm quite content with my height ...
> 
> Buck technically is not "working cowhorse" trainer but "ranch cowhorse". His whole program is geared to the horse working on a ranch, not a competition cow horse. So the way the horse works the cow & roping is very different than what we would do at a show. It's all very slow/deliberate and more functional, so no spins or sliding stops, or flashy turns. That's why it lacks finesse since you don't need finesse on the ranch.  That's why we went really, since I need lots of slow work for Pi. She wants to work the cow soooooo bad and gets in a rush. Get her slowed down with some of the ranch work and we can add the finesse to her later.


Sounds like it was a great opportunity for you.
So, more ranch work. I have friends that are heavy into Ranch horse competition, so do know the difference in Ranch horse versus specialist show horse .
Looks like you had alot of fun! 
Makes me jealous as it has been a year or so since I have taken a clinic of any sort.


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## kewpalace

Smilie said:


> Sounds like it was a great opportunity for you. * * * Looks like you had alot of fun!


Very much so on both accounts! After Friday; Friday, Pi was really UP UP UP. We both settled down on Saturday and got much more out of it. 

I audited a clinic of his years ago (2005?) in Tehachapi. I really enjoyed it and liked him and his style. Never had the courage (didn't feel I was at a level to do it), $$ or time to ride with him, but this one came up and everything fell into place, so guess it was meant to be. We got a lot out of it and I would definitely do it again - the cow portion. I would audit the horsemanship portion as he has some good exercises there and his pearls of wisdom. But it is just too many people there for me. The cow clinic is a little less congested. 



Smilie said:


> I have friends that are heavy into Ranch horse competition, so do know the difference in Ranch horse versus specialist show horse .


Even now there is some differences between different shows version of "ranch horse". Pi and I did the ranch classes a few years ago at an arena show. Yea, not real ranchy, LOL, more like "we'll call it ranch, but set up the ranch trail course for western pleasure gaits". We pretty much destroyed the trail course. Still ended up reserve and it was her first time being straight up in the bridle since they wouldn't let me ride in the two rein. I think AQHA makes a marked difference in their ranch horse classes (they are "true" ranch horse classes) and has a rule if you show in any western pleasure class you can't show ranch horse. AQHA also has a REAL ranch horse competition - the horses have to the be working horses and not show horses. THAT would be a class I'd love!!



Smilie said:


> Makes me jealous as it has been a year or so since I have taken a clinic of any sort.


I hope you get to get to one in the near future! I haven't done too many in the recent past years, but I've just done two in a row! Jake Gorrel has been having a few and I'm dying to ride with Jake again (I rode with him in the NSHA clinics they had when we first started cow horse in 2009; he helped me alot with lead changes). But he has been having them when I'm not available, darn it all.


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## Smilie

Even now there is some differences between different shows version of "ranch horse". Pi and I did the ranch classes a few years ago at an arena show. Yea, not real ranchy, LOL, more like "we'll call it ranch, but set up the ranch trail course for western pleasure gaits". We pretty much destroyed the trail course. Still ended up reserve and it was her first time being straight up in the bridle since they wouldn't let me ride in the two rein. I think AQHA makes a marked difference in their ranch horse classes (they are "true" ranch horse classes) and has a rule if you show in any western pleasure class you can't show ranch horse. AQHA also has a REAL ranch horse competition - the horses have to the be working horses and not show horses. THAT would be a class I'd love!!


Have not watched the ranch horse competitions held at AQHA shows, but here is an example of the Ranch hrose type competition that I am familiar with.., under it's own association
Home Page - Alberta Ranch Horse Versatility Association


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## kewpalace

Smilie said:


> Have not watched the ranch horse competitions held at AQHA shows, but here is an example of the Ranch hrose type competition that I am familiar with.., under it's own association Home Page - Alberta Ranch Horse Versatility Association


Aw, versatility is another animal altogether, LOL. 

With "Ranch Horse" classes at regular shows, can show one or more of the classes and place in each class. Some arena shows will group the classes into a "Ranch Horse division", but these are not the same as versatility classes and these shows typically do not have cattle (although some will). With Versatility, it is usually mandatory to show ALL 5 classes to place in the event (some organizations will let you place if you don't do a class, but obviously you will not place over someone who does all the classes). There are loads of versatility organizations, like SHOT (wish we had one in CA!) and GSVRHA (I've yet to get to one of their shows, but they are on the radar!).

I did versatility with Star years ago, before I started doing cowhorse shows. It was a local, small club that put them on and they are a BLAST! I love the "versatility"/variety of what you get to do with your horse in those types of shows and they are just plain FUN. I did one versatility show at a local trainer's place with Pi when she was in the hackamore. We got reserve only because I was a crappy rider in the reining class. I little better ride on my part and we could have placed 1st.


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## Dustbunny

How wonderful that you had such a productive weekend! Thank you for taking us along in photos.


"monkey on a border collie"......Hahahahahaha!


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## kewpalace

Dustbunny said:


> How wonderful that you had such a productive weekend! Thank you for taking us along in photos.


Aw, thanks @Dustbunny! It was a fun time for sure!!



Dustbunny said:


> "monkey on a border collie"......Hahahahahaha!


Yea, it accurately describes it, LOL ...


And here are some pix of Buck and his Metallic Cat stallion, Guapo Gato:


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## walkinthewalk

Now there's another great looking horse that I am so glad it trots instead of gaits, lollol

I have always liked the looks of the working Quarter Horses. It's the halter-bred horses that make me cringe.

He sits on that horse like its standing still and appears to let the horse do all the work ----- <sigh>


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## Smilie

walkinthewalk said:


> Now there's another great looking horse that I am so glad it trots instead of gaits, lollol
> 
> I have always liked the looks of the working Quarter Horses. It's the halter-bred horses that make me cringe.
> 
> He sits on that horse like its standing still and appears to let the horse do all the work ----- <sigh>


Yes, that used to really bug me at one time also, 'the fact that the halter hrose no longer reflects future athletic ability, and in fact, many halter horses at the World level never even see a saddle,with halter becoming an entity onto itself, just like any other event, more specialized at the top.

It was when I was taking a clinic with a reining trainer, that the light bulb went off,far as my thinking.
I was complaining to that trainer, along your lines, concerning halter horses.
His response at first was very un expected. He told me why it concerned me, as a performance rider. He told me if I did not breed to halter horses, it had no impact on me, and that those who did breed halter hroses, had aright to do what they wished, same as any other segment of the horse industry, and if that included a desire to just lead them and feed them, so be it.
Thus, I have tried to be accepting, but do find it difficult at time, not to comment.


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## kewpalace

walkinthewalk said:


> He sits on that horse like its standing still and appears to let the horse do all the work ----- <sigh>


Yea, I didn't notice that when I was watching, but it really stood out in the pix. I was like ... :shock: And then thinking abut my riding ... :redface: LOL ..


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## Avna

Smilie said:


> Yes, that used to really bug me at one time also, 'the fact that the halter hrose no longer reflects future athletic ability, and in fact, many halter horses at the World level never even see a saddle,with halter becoming an entity onto itself, just like any other event, more specialized at the top.
> 
> It was when I was taking a clinic with a reining trainer, that the light bulb went off,far as my thinking.
> I was complaining to that trainer, along your lines, concerning halter horses.
> His response at first was very un expected. He told me why it concerned me, as a performance rider. He told me if I did not breed to halter horses, it had no impact on me, and that those who did breed halter hroses, had aright to do what they wished, same as any other segment of the horse industry, and if that included a desire to just lead them and feed them, so be it.
> Thus, I have tried to be accepting, but do find it difficult at time, not to comment.


It's true there is no point in commenting to halter horse aficianados, they have made their choice. But, I deeply believe that breeding animals just for their appearance, which is the only focus of prize-winning, is just as stupid and short-sighted and just plain wrong as can be. It leads straight towards grotesque distortion and often, suffering for the animal. It does have an impact on me, in the sense that it damages horse breeds and individuals, and hence, damages the horse community in general. 

Physically or temperamentally unusable lines of horse breeds are, in the nature of things, a very small subset of horsedom. Horses are just too long-lived and large for very many people to want a horse which has been created to do be able to do nothing. But they are a huge, huge problem in dogs, for example, something I know quite a bit about, and I loathe that whole mentality. So I disagree with that reining trainer. Just my 2 cent thread hijack . . .


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## Avna

I could watch Buck Brannaman ride all day. I don't think I've ever seen someone ride so perfectly still and relaxed and aware as that guy.


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## Smilie

Avna said:


> It's true there is no point in commenting to halter horse aficianados, they have made their choice. But, I deeply believe that breeding animals just for their appearance, which is the only focus of prize-winning, is just as stupid and short-sighted and just plain wrong as can be. It leads straight towards grotesque distortion and often, suffering for the animal. It does have an impact on me, in the sense that it damages horse breeds and individuals, and hence, damages the horse community in general.
> 
> Physically or temperamentally unusable lines of horse breeds are, in the nature of things, a very small subset of horsedom. Horses are just too long-lived and large for very many people to want a horse which has been created to do be able to do nothing. But they are a huge, huge problem in dogs, for example, something I know quite a bit about, and I loathe that whole mentality. So I disagree with that reining trainer. Just my 2 cent thread hijack . . .


I agree with your points, far as how breeding any animal without putting that form to function to test, is a negative
I mean, we have Arabian halter horses with tea cup muzzles and an extremely straight topline, that both affect ability to perform
We have German Shepards with hip displasia, and not much working ability left, which required our RCMP canine detachment to require to import dogs from Germany, until they got their own breeding program going.
We got Afghan dogs with cranial cavity bred to be so narrow that the 'no brains home', almost applied
However, unless you implement a government program for some breeding control , you also can't pick and chose as to what breeding rules you can apply/enforce.
Thus, the only thing a serious performance horse person can do, is not breed to halter horses, to horses with poor minds, to horses with poor conformation.
I don't see much use for minis, sorry, esp those that are affected with dwarfism, but that does not mean I have aright to criticize those that do. I apply the same logic to halter hroses.
Accept that they are an entity on to themselves, just like a body builder, and you would not chose someone who won a major body building competition as a marathon runner
Also, if you look at some halter bred horses, who were not pushed at an early age for growth, who did not have excess weight piled on an immature skeleton, they actually are some very well put together,and some make great riders, so there is also a great amount of 'nurture versus just inherited conformation.
I just learned to accept the principle of breeding like to like, regardless of discipline, so a horse that has only been a halter hrose, is not even on my radar, far as breeding or riding prosepect.
At the same time, I would rather ride a well conformed halter horse, never pushed towards maturity, with a good mind, then some of the other horses never bred to be ridden-like horses who have been bred for years as pulling horses.
According to Dr Deb Bennett, there are only three main types of horses

riding horses
pulling horses
race horses


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