# What colour will this baby horse become?



## Kyro (Apr 15, 2012)

Can we have a picture of the sire? He seems to be shading his baby coat, foals usually have lighter coats when they are young. He seems to be brown or dark bay underneath IMO, as I see some brownish color on his nose. Do you have any other pictures?


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## raelubzz (Aug 16, 2014)

I o lyrics have this other one right now. And none of his sire. But here's another one of him.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Pretty sure baby is black.

Mare looks to be either black or brown (REALLY hard to tell from that one pic).

What color was the sire?

Depending in the sire's color, the foal can only be black, bay or brown.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## raelubzz (Aug 16, 2014)

Both of his parents are black with no information on the grandparents to my current knowledge. I'll do some digging though and see what I can find. He is a fresian cross according to the woman who owns the barn. Thanks everyone for trying to help me figure this out! It's hard to decide on the name if you don't know the coloring in my opinion. He has a beautiful temperament regardless. The first picture I posted was taken last week. He is about 4 months in it.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

If both parents are black, then he can only be black.

His foal coat in the first pic appears to be sun leached, which will usually happen when they're getting ready to go into their first shed (the long, fuzzy hairs die, so become more susceptible to bleaching).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## raelubzz (Aug 16, 2014)

Thanks for the information. I've grown up with horses all my life but I've never been around horses this young. The Internet contains a lot of confusing articles on horse coloring.


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

Yup, I think black too. The mousy colour in the second photo makes me think so. My filly was born with a deep reddish brown coat (on her non white areas) and when she started to shed, the foal fuzz bleached to a light milk chocolate colour and her new coat is dark seal bay. Like drafty said, the hairs start to die as they go into their shed and are more susceptible to bleaching.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SummerShy (Aug 3, 2014)

Cute colt!


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> If both parents are black, then he can only be black.


This is only true if one or both parents is homozygous black. Two black horses can produce a chestnut foal, but couldn't produce a bay or brown foal.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

verona1016 said:


> This is only true if one or both parents is homozygous black. Two black horses can produce a chestnut foal, but couldn't produce a bay or brown foal.


True. I should have been more specific. What I meant was that given the appearance of the foal's coat, since the parents are both black, the foal can only be black. He can't be bay or brown. I had said in my post prior to that that depending on the sire's color, he could only be black, bay or brown...again, based on what color he is now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

I have two fillies born this year that are black and they are the same colour as your now. 
He is shedding and sunbleached Shalom


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

verona1016 said:


> This is only true if one or both parents is homozygous black. Two black horses can produce a chestnut foal, but couldn't produce a bay or brown foal.


I think Drafty was referring to this foal ONLY. The question was if he was black or brown looking at the first photo. By knowing that both parents were black, it means that the foal could only be black out of those two options. It is clear that he isn't red. So while it is true that red could be possible, we know in this case that it is not red.

ETA: I didn't even notice there were two pages lol


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Chiilaa said:


> I think Drafty was referring to this foal ONLY. The question was if he was black or brown looking at the first photo. By knowing that both parents were black, it means that the foal could only be black out of those two options. It is clear that he isn't red. So while it is true that red could be possible, we know in this case that it is not red.


Exactly. Thank you.  My brain doesn't run so coherently on two hours of sleep. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JetdecksComet (Jun 11, 2013)

Yes if this foal has two black parents, he can only be black (because obviously he's not red. lol) Unless one of the "black" parents was actually a brown... the really dark brown ones sometimes get called black by mistake.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

If both parents are Ee then there is a possibility of a red foal. Not saying this baby is but without knowing DNA you can't be sure. if one was tested and is EE then even if second is Ee then baby would be black no chance of chestnut.


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## luvmydrafts (Dec 26, 2013)

Looks like a black foal to me!


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> If both parents are black, then he can only be black.
> 
> His foal coat in the first pic appears to be sun leached, which will usually happen when they're getting ready to go into their first shed (the long, fuzzy hairs die, so become more susceptible to bleaching).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Very much wrong. Two blacks have an equal chance of producing a bay, unless both are homozygous for black. Then you can STILL get a bay. Might even get a chestnut if they aren't.

That said, check the hairs around the eyes and on the muzzle. That is usually the true color. Not ALWAYS, but usually.









Look black? He isn't. Turned out to be very much a bay. Yep, black parents.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Squirrel, you _cannot _get a bay horse out of 2 genetically black horses. Agouti is dominant. It does not hide, it _cannot _hide. If 2 black horses produced a bay foal, then I would venture that a) one parent was not actually black but a very dark brown, or b) the sire wasn't actually the sire.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

DNA said they were, and I owned both of them at the time, so I KNOW the parentage.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Then the baby was probably a fading black, not a bay. Might have _looked _bay, but if both parents tested as genetically black with no agouti, then producing a genetically bay foal simply isn't possible.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

squirrelfood said:


> DNA said they were, and I owned both of them at the time, so I KNOW the parentage.


My sisters argued that a mare of my mom's was actually a bay instead of black, they were convinced that because she was always so light and basically never "looked" black (her winter coat is the blackest she gets) that she wasn't a true black. I insisted she was black, just REALLY fades in the sun... So they quietly pulled hairs when no one was watching and sent them in for testing. The test result came back and sheepishly admitted they were wrong, the result was Ee aa which means she was heterozygous black and no agouti to make her bay/brown. So even though her 4 1/2 month old colt looks VERY bay right now, he cannot be bay because his sire is EE aa and his dam is Ee aa. You need agouti to control the black pigment and if there isn't any agouti to pass to the foal, the foal cannot get an agouti modifier to make them bay/brown. Just like chestnuts come in a variety of shades (from liver to really light chestnut), so do blacks. They can be anything from that gorgeous blue black that never fades in the sun all they way to the super fading black that you would swear was not black.


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## Dehda01 (Jul 25, 2013)

It is genetically impossible for two DNA'd black horses to produce a bay because neither of them have an agouti gene to pass on. 

Two black horses CAN produce a chestnut if either one of them is heterozygous black.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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