# Friesian/Andalusian questions



## SummerBliss (Jan 7, 2017)

Hey everyone. So I recently put a horse up for sale and I had a response with a lady wondering if I’d do a partial trade and she was offering a friesian cross Andalusian mare. At this point, I don’t know if I will do the trade. 

She’s 2 years old, stands around 15 hh and is expected to mature between 15.2 - 16 or 17 hh. She is registered and has 2 months in saddle training already as well. I also absolutely love her colour but I naturally have a weakness for greys. 


So I was just wondering what your guys experience has been with this breed. I’ve heard good things of friesians but not much. Would you think she could be good for jumping at all? I can see her as being quite beautiful in dressage. But ya, any info you have about this breed I’d love to hear.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

I can't tell you anything about those breeds but I highly advise not to do a trade. I don't know if it's a funky picture angle or what but that mare looks like she has very big lump on her chest. From what I've seen when people want to do a trade it's because their horse is either crazy, lame or old.


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## SummerBliss (Jan 7, 2017)

JCnGrace said:


> I can't tell you anything about those breeds but I highly advise not to do a trade. I don't know if it's a funky picture angle or what but that mare looks like she has very big lump on her chest. From what I've seen when people want to do a trade it's because their horse is either crazy, lame or old.


I didn’t even notice that at first, thanks for pointing it out. I wonder a bit if it’s just the angle since I saw a video of this girl and there wasn’t a lump noticible. But I wouldn’t get her without seeing her in person anyway. And for the reasons you’ve mentioned, I haven’t decided on the trade. She said it’s because the horse is too young for her elderly friend to handle.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

The " lump" is her breastbone. I've seen this in some Fresians. It looks odd, but is not a problem. 

I wish people would not breed two such disparate breeds. The Andalusian is bred for agility and collecting ability and high leg action. They are sensitive often hot horses that can require patience to get the best from. They mature much later than many other breeds, both physically and mentally. 

Fresians are originally bred to be fancy cart horses. They are more docile but can also be quite stubborn and strong willed. They mature relatively quickly and while they have fancy leg action, are not what I'd call agile. 

To me, it's an odd combination. But . . . The horse might be a great dressage partner, with a lot of work. Just consider that she may take quite a long time to mature and may truly try your patience Of course, any horse can do that, but this combo is just that much more likely to.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Neither is a jumping breed at all, so I would never get this horse expecting to jump much with it. Dressage is possible but these are also not modern dressage competition breeds. I have a problem with Frisians in general but it depends a lot on what type of Frisian the parent was. 

I love dark grays too, but I also remember that most of their lives they are going to be "white", not "gray". White with melanomas, like as not. I would also want to see some real, posed, on hard ground, side and back and front conformation pics, and some video at a trot and canter, before I even made the effort to go see her.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

I have never seen a lump on the breast bone just because they are friesian. That looks like something but it could just be that moment in time like some kind of bug bite, kick from another horse or whatever if I'm looking at the same thing as others. 

I crossed a friesian with a lusitano (up until 1960's it they were pretty much the same breed as the andy) and glad I did. I was pretty confident that I was going to get a really nice horse out of it and I did. The reason that I did that is because I saw the result of others breeding the same, liked what I saw and wanted that. 

I may see a little toeing in or just the way she's standing at the moment. Any breed of horse can have confo faults so just check her out or have her looked at by a vet. I would be a bit leery if she's been ridden extensively as she's so young and still has much growing to do. Just started would be alright with me. Andy's/Lusitano's do grow slowly and my Friesian mare was not finished until almost seven.

As far as the breed cross, I love them. Most of the those crosses that I've seen I've like. My three year old filly is the sweetest thing with a touch of sass. She's super smart, very gentle, loves people, and is quite a character.

Should you trade? Well, do you want money or another horse?

Friesians were originally bred for riding horses. Heavy enough to carry men and armor into battle and but agile enough to move. Movement needed for war (would that be classical dressage?) Then harness horses became en vogue and they started breeding them for more of a high stepping action. Now, riding them has become en vogue again and they are being bred more for a riding horse again. As a breed, they are generally gentle, very people oriented, intelligent, and also full of character.

Andulusians (and lusitanos for that matter) were also originally bred as war horses and became Spain and Portugals sweetheart for classical dressage and bull fighting. They are smart, can be hot, very sweet with a lot of try. A typical andalusian will try to do anything for you.

If I were heavily into any kind of jumping discipline, neither of these breeds or the cross of them would be my choice. Of course they can jump quite nicely but others bred for that can do it better. If I were getting into competition dressage maybe, classical dressage definitely yes, If I wanted a very pleasant and fun riding horse I would definitely say yes to this filly.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

This is my personal example of that cross of breeds.

A week old








about three months








Three years








Her mom


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

Not a good photo for evaluation, but my first impression is she got the fresian hind end. Looks like a weaker loin and fairly straight through the hind legs. Also see a touch of toeing in. But this could all be from the angle of the picture.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I'm glad to hear that the mix makes a nice result. One can never know which characteristics will dominate when crossing. 

One of my favorite crosses is QH x Andalusian, the Azteca horse. ( not that I actually own one. Just day dreaming).


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

I have a Friesian X TB X Paint and he is a lovely boy! Beautiful temperament and very smart. 

In Australia I think Friesian X Andalusians are called Warlanders and are bred with that cross quite frequently.


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## Pelhams-and-Snaffles (Jul 4, 2019)

I am currently only able to ride Friesians at my barn, and have a weak spot for Andalusians, so let me tell you this. Friesians are a very nice breed to be around, forget riding. 20/32 Friesians at my barn are loyal, kind and hardworking. (Also, this may just be my experience, but the Friesians here rarely spook badly. They'll sidestep, speed up, or try to get a look, but are very easy to persuade onward. Never seen one actually jump.) But they are not jumping horses. Maybe recreationally, or for fun on a trail ride, but they do not have the best stamina. But that's all in my experience, you'll have to see when you go to try her.


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## SummerBliss (Jan 7, 2017)

Thanks everyone for your input! It's definitely a breed I'm unfamiliar with and am definitely going to look at this filly in person first to see how she looks and also to see if we click at all before deciding if I'd really get her. She definitely is a looker but I already have a young, green horse as well so I'm not sure I want to take on another greenie youngster. It's definitely a wait and see but all the info you guys have shared helped as well.


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

With the exception of that lump, i like her. I hope that lump is just from a kick or something easily explained. 

I had a Friesian percheron cross in for training at one time. He was very laid back and LAZY. Easily a horse that needs to be ridden with a whip and spurs. Not spooky at all. A big difference training him compared to hotter breeds.

I have a friend who has both Andalusians and Friesians. She bred one of her Andalusian mares to a Friesian. The resulting colt was another super laid back, easy going, push to go horse. Of course the mare was the same. All her horses are quite nice. Bomb proof without much spook. She leaves many of her colts intact. One of the few people I know that actively rides stallions at the state parks and around mares. I guess that should give you an idea on temperament. She suggested that I breed my paint mare to a Friesian. I have yet to take her up on that. Not sure that is a cross i want in hot Florida.


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## Filou (Jan 16, 2014)

I think on her chest you are seeing her bone. It could be a trick of the light, or be that prominent. I would expect some width across the shoulders with Andalusian. Frisians can come in different types. Hard to tell exactly with one picture. 

Yes, there could be problems with the color grey. I would pass on that unless I had a covered enclosed stall and arena. 

I think she looks ok, but has potential to develop more muscle in her topline and across her chest where that bone is. 

Use for dressage, working equitation, ranch work, cart pulling... just some ideas that might fit. It's great to see these similar horse pics. My mustang is a spanish mustang, but he also gets curly mane and tail. He looks like a stocky miniature Frisian, or a black Andalusian. He is thick like how a curly or the stocky Morgans are across his back.


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## SummerBliss (Jan 7, 2017)

Thanks for your input all. I've come to make my decision and I've pretty much decided not to get her. We just don't seem like a good fit at this point in time. While she is stunning to see, she's just not quite right for me. So hopefully she finds a good home with whoever does take her eventually.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

The mare that I have that had the abcess at birth and years of rehab stands like that often. For her it comes from a learned stance to relieve pressure and pain. She is lame. We can and do still use her for light farm work in soft ground but not something I would chance taking on especially as a trade.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

I'm almost wondering if that lump on her chest is an abscess from pigeon fever or something of that sorts.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

the cross is also called a Warlander. apparently they can be very nice flashy horses. but when crossing two different breed its a gamble. as for the chest my trainer hand a gelding like that. he was a Hanoverian TB cross. said it was just his breast bone. hard to see at this angle but hust looked alot like the fillies. just was less notable while moveing and with work.


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## SweetAbby (Nov 27, 2014)

I have an 11 year old Friesian mare, she's a big sweetheart, her trainer says she doesn't have a mean bone in her body, she was easy to train, no buck, trainer rode her with a halter only...... there's no, "bump/lump" on her chest......friesians do NOT mature quickly, they don't fully mature until 6-8 years old and, should not be started under saddle at years of age, that's too young, their joints aren't fully closed yet.

I can't speak for Andalusions, I've never had one, or, even seen one.

I wish people would stop crossing Friesians with anything/everything they come across, the Dutch spent a lot of time trying to bring them back from near extinction.

There's usually a reason someone wants to trade one horse for another, a young one, at that.....what's the breed of the horse you put up for sale?

I don't think I'd do it, unless you know the person and the horse in question.


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## dustywyatt (Aug 19, 2019)

SweetAbby said:


> I wish people would stop crossing Friesians with anything/everything they come across, the Dutch spent a lot of time trying to bring them back from near extinction.



I agree in a lot of cases, but this is kind of a double-edged sword. On the one hand, you want to keep the Friesian breed pure; but on the other, because they were so close to extinction, there's just not that much genetic diversity there anymore. There is a LOOOOT of inbreeding in the good Friesian lines, and I wish there was a good way to *carefully* and responsibly introduce a little something different in there.


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

A horse at my barn has a super prominent breastbone that looks like that "lump." Just how he's built. Doesn't have any negative effect on him.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

My first thought is why would she want to breed a horse that was cross bred with 2 very expensive breeds of horses? to me I am sniffing something off with this situation. In my area anyways and I have to say in general both Friesian and Andalusians are expensive breeds in general to purchase so to cross breed would be as well. Why would a woman suddenly want to trade such an expensive youngster? 

To me there is something fishy with this. If you are at all seriously considering this, I would not be doing it without a very thorough pre-purchase exam which include xrays and bloodwork especially xrays because of all the bone structure issues andalusians are prone to having.


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## txgirl (Jul 9, 2010)

I love my Friesian cross! I have a friend that does eventing and show jumping with hers, but he's a Friesian/Morgan cross. Is the Friesian side more Baroque or Sport-horse type of body style?


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## Pippi (Oct 16, 2020)

@tinyliny @SweetAbby
Actually the Friesian horse was initially used as a warhorse. Ancient text from the 4th-century document warriors mounted on Friesian stallions. Their use as a battle steed continued for centuries, and they were the chosen horse of knights during the crusades.

The original massive bodied Friesian was crossed with Arabians in the 15th century, which resulted in a lighter horse with more athleticism and endurance. During the latter part of the 19th century, Friesians were used to pull carriages and ridden in trotting races. 

And the crossing of Iberian and Friesian-type horses to produce improved cavalry horses has a history going back to at least the sixteenth century. The resulting “Warlander” breed has even been a distinctly organized horse breed since the 1990s.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^Fascinating. And from that I just had interest piqued to look further & seems Friesians are ancestor of both British Shire & Fell pony - can certainly see it in the Fells. I'd wondered at the diff between Shires & Clydies...


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

tinyliny said:


> I wish people would not breed two such disparate breeds. The Andalusian is bred for agility and collecting ability and high leg action. ...
> Fresians are originally bred to be fancy cart horses. They are more docile but can also be quite stubborn and strong willed. They mature relatively quickly


I disagree with the 'maturing quite quickly' - no horse matures until 6-7yo. And as this thread has piqued my interest, I've since learned(& not to just repeat what Pippy said) that Friesians were NOT originally bred as 'fancy cart horses' at all, just that's what they've been turned into. They were not just 'cart horses' but for riding, and they were commonly crossed with Andalucians.


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## Palfrey (May 29, 2020)

I know this thread is old but with regards to the original horse's "lump"--that can be a very Friesian thing! I think of it as a "harness chest". That's not its official name or anything (just what I call it) but not a concern at all in regards to performance and health! 

I can see the Andalusian x Friesian cross being a good one, much like I think the Morgan x Friesian would be great too (due in part to the Morgan's distant Friesian heritage). Since the Andalusian was introduced to the Friesian around late 1500s, due to all things Spanish being the rage and very _en vogue_ (hence the Spanish Riding School in Vienna for another example of Spanish influence). I'll confess I've often pondered about the Dutch opening their breeding book for one season to add approved Andalusian blood to diversify the Friesian genetics. 

The Friesian does pick up some Andy traits like the conformation, long hair, intelligence and deep attachment to their owner (and dare I say a love of food!). It is true that the Andys are possess far more _brio_ and are more reactive both under saddle and on the ground. The stallions tend to be more vocal and busy as well.


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## Caledonian (Nov 27, 2016)

@*Pippi* - I think you can say that the 4th century horses imported by Roman auxiliaries to northern Britain, were the ancestors of the Freisian (and many other modern breeds) but not a recognisable Freisian breed. They may have come from Friesland and/or the surrounding area but they were probably a larger type of horse common to that part of Europe. Dutch archeological evidence suggests 13-14hh during the Roman period. 

@*loosie* - Many different nationalities imported their horses to northern Britain/England when they fought as Roman auxiliaries. There was a mix of native horses, the larger horse from northern Europe and the finer Arab type. They may have contributed to our modern breeds, it's difficult to say without records, but imported horses would have died and they bred for purpose rather than looks and purity at that time, which suggests crosses with whatever was available and appropriate on the outer edge of an empire. 

Similarities between the modern breeds does not necessarily mean that horses from Friesland were the main ancestor of the Fell etc. While our natives were dark, the colours, manes and feathers of the other horses is unknown and unlikely to have looked like today's breeds. After a couple of thousand years, any likeness between the modern Freisian and our breeds is more likely due to selective breeding and coincidence. 

The size of the Clydesdale came from Flemish stallions being crossed with native mares from southern Scotland. The same ancient native and imported horses would be present in their lines if you go far enough back in time.


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## whisperbaby22 (Jan 25, 2013)

I'll pipe in here, I see a lot of these horses in my area. It is a nice cross, around here called warlanders. And yes, the andy stallions are really vocal.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Caledonian said:


> Similarities between the modern breeds does not necessarily mean that horses from Friesland were the main ancestor of the Fell etc.


Yeah, it's not something I've looked into far at all, just a quick google search(forget the page) gave me an article about history of Friesian breed, where I saw same as what Pippi said, and that Shire & Fell had Friesian ancestors. Also in the 1500's or thereabouts Friesians were big in classical riding schools & haute ecole, & they were often x'd with Andalucians & similar.


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## latinavaquerita (Apr 22, 2021)

tinyliny said:


> I'm glad to hear that the mix makes a nice result. One can never know which characteristics will dominate when crossing.
> 
> One of my favorite crosses is QH x Andalusian, the Azteca horse. ( not that I actually own one. Just day dreaming).


I have an Azteca mare, one of the best tempered horses I have ever ridden or had. She is the most popular student horse we have. She is beautiful, mild and sweet. We are about to breed her.


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## latinavaquerita (Apr 22, 2021)

latinavaquerita said:


> I have an Azteca mare, one of the best tempered horses I have ever ridden or had. She is the most popular student horse we have at Yoga Horse Tribe. She is beautiful, mild and sweet. We are about to breed her.


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## Palfrey (May 29, 2020)

@latinavaquerita Are you going with an Andalusian stallion? She's really cute btw!


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## latinavaquerita (Apr 22, 2021)

Thank you! She is the best, great under saddle. I know this could start a hatorade parade, but we are going to cross her with a Friesian stallion.


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## latinavaquerita (Apr 22, 2021)

Palfrey said:


> @latinavaquerita Are you going with an Andalusian stallion? She's really cute btw!





Palfrey said:


> @latinavaquerita Are you going with an Andalusian stallion? She's really cute btw!


Thank you! She is the best, great under saddle. I know this could start a hatorade parade, but we are going to cross her with a Friesian stallion.


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## Palfrey (May 29, 2020)

Awww, look at her face! Being a Friesian fan-girl myself you'll receive no hate from me! Have you decided on a stallion yet? She's got some pretty good bone, so it'll be interesting to see her foal! And the color...hmm...grey or black!? That's really exciting, I do so hope you keep us updated on your progress--I love seeing foals!


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## Galeox (Dec 3, 2021)

tinyliny said:


> The " lump" is her breastbone. I've seen this in some Fresians. It looks odd, but is not a problem.
> 
> I wish people would not breed two such disparate breeds. The Andalusian is bred for agility and collecting ability and high leg action. They are sensitive often hot horses that can require patience to get the best from. They mature much later than many other breeds, both physically and mentally.
> 
> ...


 Yooo you are online?? I thought this forum thingy is like ancient old, like 2009. Surprised your online lol i just registered


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## ZLund (Aug 8, 2014)

SummerBliss said:


> Hey everyone. So I recently put a horse up for sale and I had a response with a lady wondering if I’d do a partial trade and she was offering a friesian cross Andalusian mare. At this point, I don’t know if I will do the trade.
> 
> She’s 2 years old, stands around 15 hh and is expected to mature between 15.2 - 16 or 17 hh. She is registered and has 2 months in saddle training already as well. I also absolutely love her colour but I naturally have a weakness for greys.
> 
> ...





SummerBliss said:


> Hey everyone. So I recently put a horse up for sale and I had a response with a lady wondering if I’d do a partial trade and she was offering a friesian cross Andalusian mare. At this point, I don’t know if I will do the trade.
> 
> She’s 2 years old, stands around 15 hh and is expected to mature between 15.2 - 16 or 17 hh. She is registered and has 2 months in saddle training already as well. I also absolutely love her colour but I naturally have a weakness for greys.
> 
> ...


You are kidding, right? This is a Warlander that the woman wants to trade you with! Friesian/Andalusian is one of the BEST crosses there is. Warlanders are WONDERFUL!


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

*MODERATORS NOTE:*

This thread is from December 2021 so a bit old and dusty....
Comments made today may no longer apply.
Decisions must have been made already and no longer advice needed this thread is going to CLOSE to comment.

We ask all members to look at the posting date of the thread you wish to comment on....if that is not a recent, current date then often it is a stale thread and a outcome has already been made.
If you have questions...start your own thread please for optimum seen and current commentary wanted/needed obtained.
Have a nice day all.

*THREAD IS CLOSED.*


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