# Off the track Standardbred?



## abtiffi

I joined just to ask this question! Standardbred off the track? Yea or "neigh" (sorry I couldn't help myself :lol. 

To give you background, I have 20 years of horse experience. My current horse, the only horse I have owned, I got as a colt 20 years ago for $300. I had him broke by a general horseman, and then started under English saddle by a trainer for a few months before I started riding him. He was barely green broke. He has taught me SO much as he was never an easy horse (still isn't). But, he is starting to slow down and I would like to get a new horse to start training and developing while I slowly ease my current boy into retirement over the course of the next few years. 

I have looked at many warmbloods, warmblood crosses etc and they are all gorgeous horses (and pricey! averaging $8000). While all fine examples of the horse, none of them jumped out at me. Then one day, while browsing my favourite rescue organization's page on Facebook, I came across a super cute 2011 standardbred gelding, and I just couldn't stop thinking about him. 

He is "off the track" but he was never raced as he just wasn't fast enough in time trials. He has been ridden on the trails a few times by the owners of the rescue organization, and they say he is green but willing, and has a puppy dog personality. I have inquired with local Standardbred networks and found out that other horses sired by the same stallion have been phenomenal horses and are wonderful to work with. 

I am seriously considering buying him (vet check this week). However, I just have a few questions as opinions on STBs are so mixed. 
1. Good idea??
2. Jumping??! Some say "hell yes!" some say "no way!"
3. This is seriously stumping me...what kind of bit would I start him with?

Thanks!!


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## Saddlebag

As discussed elsewhere on this forum, double check the rescue agreement which varies from rescue to rescue. Some have ridiculous rules about checking your property and removing the animal if deemed removal is necessary or buy back only at what you paid as you're not allowed to sell the horse despite your investment. I would start him in a simple snaffle. Nature provided all horses with the ability to jump but some have better confo for it than others when it comes to carrying a rider. There is no reason he can't easily clear 4' jumps with training. My good US friend worked on the track with SB's and altho no longer there, all her private horses have been SB rescues, some right off the track and all have worked out well.


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## amigoboy

Great horses, caint go wrong in my book, have one now and have reschooled several others. Rode Endurance with one many years ago.

They are horses too......so if you can save one:


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## rookie

Yes, They are great horses and yes they can jump. They tend to be pretty easy to start under saddle. Who is this horses sire? On the track they go in a snaffle. I know folks who go in a bitless. I have good luck with all mine in a french link. 

Famous Standardbred jumpers
http://www.standardbredfanclub.com/images/bionic-woman.jpg


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## abtiffi

rookie said:


> Who is this horses sire?


He is sired by As Promised out of Island Romance


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## amigoboy

rookie said:


> Yes, They are great horses and yes they can jump. They tend to be pretty easy to start under saddle. Who is this horses sire? On the track they go in a snaffle. I know folks who go in a bitless. I have good luck with all mine in a french link.
> 
> Famous Standardbred jumpers
> http://www.standardbredfanclub.com/images/bionic-woman.jpg


Thanks rookie, haven´t been in the Club site for a while, interessting the new jumper updates that came in on Bionic Woman - High Hopes - Primrose & Non Stop.

I don´t know how it is in other countrys but here in Sweden the Standies are often riden as well as harness trained, so you get a loooot of horse for the $.


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## coalitions

I just made this decision with the horse I adopted. You may get a little of flack with some horse people over choosing a standardbred, but I'm very glad I did it. I also went through a rescue. 

Yes, the terms are a little steep but it does have its advantages depending on the organization. One, I got a 30 day trial. That was HUGE for me. Two, the horse was given some training from the rescue and I am able to keep in touch with the girl who trained him. (I'm putting 30 days on him with someone else as he was sitting too long, but the communication between the two are important to me). Three, I knew my horse had his vet work. Four, if ever I can't care for my horse he can go back to the rescue if necessary. It's not a great situation for everyone but it works for me. I've never been looking to profit off my horse and I, and my BO, don't mind him being checked in on. 

Some disadvantages are present as well. They can be a little pretentious or over the top. My BO was given a hard time over cross ties! And I was given a hard time when I asked about using a curb bit. These are apparently inhumane... He was also lacking in some individual attention due to the amount of horses they had in training. I didn't like that. But at the end of the day I do feel they're just looking for what's best for the horses.

As far as the standardbred breed, he has been a very good boy. He learns pretty quick, but he is a little stubborn and lazy! He's coming out of it really well though. I'd probably be the same way if I was left sitting for nearly a year then started working out every day. But if that's the only issue I have with a 4 year old, I think we're doing well! I also had to do some desensitizing but that process went very quickly. On the ground he is so so good and as gentle as can be. He has such a good personality. He's never once been pushy or threatening. I'm very pleased with him and thankful as he is BIG.

He also transitioned to saddle very well. He's still in training but no issues when it came to people on his back, or the track and equipment. The only issue I've had is with the bit. I use a regular snaffle. I think with the racing training they can tend to be a little hard on the mouth. 

Sorry for the wall of text but if you have any other questions let me know!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## abtiffi

coalitions said:


> You may get a little of flack with some horse people over choosing a standardbred


Yes, I already am just for considering it. But, the funny thing is, I'm _only_ getting flack from people who have never worked with a standie. Everyone I have asked that has ever worked with one in some way or another can't say enough about what a fantastic breed they are. Even some people who haven't worked with them say this. The only problem is, there are more people who haven't worked with them off the track than who have, so the negative comments seem to outweigh the positive in number. 

Thanks for the info!


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## abtiffi

amigoboy said:


> I don´t know how it is in other countrys but here in Sweden the Standies are often riden as well as harness trained, so you get a loooot of horse for the $.


In Canada, Standies are largely regarded as only a driving breed, and when you mention you're thinking of getting one, anyone who hasn't worked with them off the track (which is most people), they all shake their head and tell you you're making a mistake. But, talk to anyone who HAS worked with them off the track, and they can't say enough good things about the horse.


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## coalitions

abtiffi said:


> Yes, I already am just for considering it. But, the funny thing is, I'm _only_ getting flack from people who have never worked with a standie. Everyone I have asked that has ever worked with one in some way or another can't say enough about what a fantastic breed they are. Even some people who haven't worked with them say this. The only problem is, there are more people who haven't worked with them off the track than who have, so the negative comments seem to outweigh the positive in number.



I feel ya. Even a good family friend who owns harness racing horses gave me a hard time about adopting one for riding. "He'll be a bouncing machine! " And granted, he does have a bumpy trot... but ha also does get into some nice smooth gates we'll have to develop. 

If you have pictures I'd also recommend the critque forum. If the pictures are critque worthy they'll be able to give a pretty good opinion on if his build is suitable for jumping. Most certainly seem to like it!

There's also collection and cantering to consider when training one which I'm sure you're aware of as they race with their heads held high and hollow backed. Needless to say they're also strongly encouraged not to canter. I haven't had much issues with those though. Brego is picking those up just fine but his racing training wasn't terribly extensive from what I gather. With yours being young I'm sure it wont be too terrible and it sounds like you're willing to take on a project! 

Best of luck!


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NBEventer

Love love love standies!!!! I'm planning on getting a couple to retrain once I have my farm set up 

They make fabulous jumpers and even eventers. There was one in NZ that went to the Olympics for eventing and came home with gold. I've also seen them go GP dressage and do very well.

Standies have huge hearts and are very athletic and love to work. There is a facebook group Underestimated Standarbreds I highly suggest checking it out 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## amigoboy

abtiffi said:


> In Canada, Standies are largely regarded as only a driving breed, and when you mention you're thinking of getting one, anyone who hasn't worked with them off the track (which is most people), they all shake their head and tell you you're making a mistake. But, talk to anyone who HAS worked with them off the track, and they can't say enough good things about the horse.


I say "performance talks"!to the down lookers, "let´s have some fun and hit the trail.

On the bit thing the first thing I always did was put on a Mayler Bit, their curved so the horse can move his tounge and swallow, and hit the trail on a loose rein, it´s a little confussing for them at first as they´v been worked on a hard bit. 
All I do is walk around trees, over rocks, up and down hills, let them find their feet and balance.
Stopping is just the pull release;
I get em Briddle Wise by going straight into Neck Reining, amazing how fast they learn.
I´v only had one x-trotter that I could not get up into a gallop, the more I squeezed with my legs the faster he´d go, fortunately he had a beautifull trott, but then I never saw him gallop on his own out in the field either.
All the others.....lift em up and they went into the gallop from a walk, no problem.
They are great for up to 100km endurance competitions, over that.....Arabs! as I´v seen the Standies seem too have some problems getting their puls back down.
Sorry for going on..........:lol:

Just one more thing.........use them for cattle work too.


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## abtiffi

amigoboy said:


> On the bit thing the first thing I always did was put on a Mayler Bit


You're not the first to suggest a myler. I now have it narrowed down to myler or French link snaffle thanks to everyone's help


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## caglover

abtiffi said:


> In Canada, Standies are largely regarded as only a driving breed, and when you mention you're thinking of getting one, anyone who hasn't worked with them off the track (which is most people), they all shake their head and tell you you're making a mistake...



Not true! We had a good group of Canadians at the Standardbred World Show...and most of them were jumpers! Send me a PM and I can direct you to some of them!

Check out this link!

The Ontario Standardbred Show Series | Standardbred Showcase


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## abtiffi

caglover said:


> Not true! We had a good group of Canadians at the Standardbred World Show...and most of them were jumpers


That's awesome to hear! Out in Alberta we have a few select STB groups but for the most part, you mention you're getting one to the average horse person and they tell you you're making a mistake (mostly because they have no experience with them).


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## amigoboy

caglover said:


> Not true! We had a good group of Canadians at the Standardbred World Show...and most of them were jumpers! Send me a PM and I can direct you to some of them!
> 
> Check out this link!
> 
> The Ontario Standardbred Show Series | Standardbred Showcase


Thank you for that link.
Wow, seems Canada is really at the fore front for recyceling Standies after they have retired from the track.


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## disastercupcake

I am seriously interested in rescue OTSB's too!

From what I gather, the pacers you may want to avoid if you are hard set on a discipline like Dressage- their lateral movements, even if you train them to trot, still show up and their canter is usually not 'true'. However for a lovely smooth trail horse, would be perfect 

I would love to find a OTSB for eventing someday! Good luck! Haven't had too much experience with the breed yet, but every one I've met so far has been a real doll


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## rookie

I have to say they are wonderful horses and very willing. They tend to get overlooked which is silly. OP your horse has decent breeding. That horse is pacing bred. Which can make it really fun and really smooth to ride. That said, it can take some time to get them into a trot first instead of pace mentality. I have a friend doing level one dressage with her OTSB pacer. She is doing really well but says when he is nervous he tries to put in a pace stride here and there. 

That said, if you want to do western, specifically pole bending the pace lends itself really well. The horses can clean up because the gate allows them to easily swing between poles.


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## EdmontonHorseGal

get the standie. don't pass go. love the horse, and the breed! 

i'm in the process of proving to my barn manager that a standardbred makes for a great saddle horse, and that yes! they can jump! he's convinced they are no good for anything but harness racing. their butts are weak, and they are pretty much useless horses. me and Loki mare (coming 3 year old standie, never raced or track trained....... my business partner and i picked her up last month for only $300) are going to prove him wrong.

by the end of summer, i believe he'll be changing his tune, hahaha.


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## Cacowgirl

When I was a kid there were a couple of Standardbreds turned out at the mines where a friend lived- we would catch them up, bring them in bareback to the house-felt like miles-then saddle & ride until dinnertime sometimes. They were great & taught us a lot! I think Standardbreds are great horses!


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## Idrivetrotters

I've been working with Standards for over 20 years, not a better breed out there as far as versatility and athleticism with a sane brain and great personalities. I've yet to find something a Standard can't do, they do well in speed events, cows, jumping, dressage, gaited, driving, endurance/trails, reining, roping, etc.

I could brag in a lot of mine who transitioned from racing to riding and went on to fantastic careers. I am currently working with an OTSTB trotter and he is becoming quite a solid trail horse and endurance/distance riding is hopefully in our future. I also drive him still and combined driving is our next goal once we get our farm later on this year. He can canter, trot, and gait (he has a fox trot and a rack, he prefers the fox trot on trails but will rack on flat roads). He still has his "Tagliabue" moments ( his sire is notorious for throwing well gaited but stubborn get) but thankfully they are fewer now than when we first started training.

Enjoy your boy and thank you for taking a chance on a Standardbred!


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## abtiffi

Idrivetrotters said:


> I've been working with Standards for over 20 years, not a better breed out there as far as versatility and athleticism with a sane brain and great personalities. I've yet to find something a Standard can't do, they do well in speed events, cows, jumping, dressage, gaited, driving, endurance/trails, reining, roping, etc.


This is what everyone who has worked with Standies says. And honestly, I value the opinion of those who have worked with them much more than I value the opinion of the nay-sayers who haven't.

Any tips or tricks for training? The vet check is on Friday so I'm not sure how I'm going to distract myself all week haha.


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## Idrivetrotters

If you want to teach him to gait that is always a lot of fun, once you ride that glide it is hard to go back to that trot  My guy will trot but prefers to fox trot on trails, I'm glad though, his trot is HUGE and very hard to post.

Here we are just getting the winter rust off, we are both pretty out of shape.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...90655136.1073741833.1492116156&type=3&theater

If he is picking up the trot and canter than not much more than just go out and enjoy and ride. If he has problems staying on trot use trotting poles and do lots of transitions. I cheat with the canter, I put a small cross rail in the corner and have great success in them picking up the canter on the landing and bonus, the corner puts them on the correct lead. That point it is just reenforcing the cues and gait and also take them out on the trail to let them stretch out.


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## abtiffi

Idrivetrotters said:


> If he is picking up the trot and canter than not much more than just go out and enjoy and ride.


I haven't even committed to purchasing him yet (it's pending the vet check) but according to the rescue organization he needs help with transitions. I honestly have no idea how he will be. I like your idea of a cross rail in the corner to pick up the canter, that seems like it would be a very good way to start with the canter. 

Have you started any off the track? This guy will be 3 mid-April and he never raced so I'm hoping his racing habits won't be as hard to break as if he had been trained longer or he had raced


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## SueC

coalitions said:


> Some disadvantages are present as well. They can be a little pretentious or over the top. My BO was given a hard time over cross ties! And I was given a hard time when I asked about using a curb bit. These are apparently inhumane... . The only issue I've had is with the bit. I use a regular snaffle. I think with the racing training they can tend to be a little hard on the mouth.


Hey there, don't let anyone tell you an incorrect generalisation. There are some fantastic mild curb bits around, and curbs have a gradual action, which means horses can respond to very low-level pressure. Also good for re-educating harness racing habituated head positions, although some are just fine learning to go "on the bit" in a snaffle. Depends on the horse.

Since harness racing horses are frequently taught that "loose reins means relax, rein contact means go" (and the horses look for rein contact during racing), this can then look like a hard mouth to an adopting rider, but it's really just what they were taught, and you have to show them that you want something different now, which can perplex the horse at first. Sometimes it's really helpful to have a very different bit to what the horse raced in, or go bitless for a while, until the horse and you understand each other better anyway.

We've done curb versus snaffle to death in other threads in this forum lately, and I can post a link if anyone wants it.

PS: "Halla" on Wikipedia - story of one of the greatest showjumpers ever. Also there are recordings of her on You Tube.


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## abtiffi

SueC said:


> Sometimes it's really helpful to have a very different bit to what the horse raced in, or go bitless for a while, until the horse and you understand each other better anyway.
> 
> PS: "Halla" on Wikipedia - story of one of the greatest showjumpers ever. Also there are recordings of her on You Tube.


Yes, I knew about Halla! With that record I can't believe there are so many nay-sayers about STBs jumping.

As far as bit goes - yes I was thinking something along the same lines, so I am primarily considering Myler or French link snaffles right now (I think they're raced in snaffles?). I have also considered Nurtural Bitless bridles, but I've never worked with bitless so I'm not too confident about that


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## SueC

Idrivetrotters said:


> I've been working with Standards for over 20 years, not a better breed out there as far as versatility and athleticism with a sane brain and great personalities. I've yet to find something a Standard can't do, they do well in speed events, cows, jumping, dressage, gaited, driving, endurance/trails, reining, roping, etc...


Hi IDT, my father is a harness racing enthusiast and has bred and raced various admixtures of French Trotters (separate breed but crosses accepted in SB stud book) and SB. I personally prefer to ride, and my first (own) horse was an Arabian, but as you can imagine, over the years I've ridden a lot of his horses, especially when I was younger and living on or near their farm! One of his best-ever was a regular metropolitan winner, a pretty chestnut stallion that looked like an Anglo-Arab and was a total clown. He neighed enthusiastically wherever he went, and would start neighing when the float pulled up in the car park, and he was always grabbing the lead rope or your sleeve, and blowing bubbles into water hoses.

Anyway, this horse was ridden as part of his race training, and as my own mare was pushing 20 and starting to ease back, I used to volunteer all the time to take him on trails. He was so much fun, was "on the bit" in a snaffle from the go-get, and would walk, trot, canter or pace depending entirely on cues from the rider. If I didn't want him pacing, he wouldn't, and he was a super trotter (and so comfortable) as well even though his race gait was a pace. Once I took him on a 40km endurance ride on a weekend between metropolitan racing engagements. They were unable to get his starting heart rate because he was neighing non-stop during the vet check :rofl:, but they let that pass, and on the return he shut up long enough for them to get his recovery rate (38bpm, and for the fastest ride time of the 40km section). So he got section honours for the 40km ride for fittest horse and best time in the endurance discipline, and within the week won another metropolitan race. This is despite racing and endurance being different types of fitness.

Oh, and when I rode him, NOBODY could believe he was an SB until I showed them the brand. The prejudice against SBs is quite silly. They share much the same ancestral stock as other riding breeds, including generous dashes of Arabian and TB.

Currently riding an SB/French Trotter Cross, an Albatross grandson. Super horse, very athletic, very cool. This one took after the trotter genes and doesn't pace at all. When he retires down the track, I don't see any rational reason why I shouldn't offer a good home to another racing retiree: One of my father's SB youngsters looks like an Andalusian, very lovely. I'd have him in a flash. There are lots of gorgeous SBs. They are an athletic and fast-learning breed.


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## SueC

abtiffi said:


> As far as bit goes - yes I was thinking something along the same lines, so I am primarily considering Myler or French link snaffles right now (I think they're raced in snaffles?). I have also considered Nurtural Bitless bridles, but I've never worked with bitless so I'm not too confident about that


Probably best to go with what you are confident in. SBs usually race in snaffles or variations of snaffles: Ordinary jointed eggbutt snaffles, unjointed snaffles, Simpson bits, that sort of thing. The bits you are talking about seem worth trying. If you are at all concerned about your horse taking off with you on a trail, or if his head position is too high, you could try a mild curb too. Try him in a variety of (borrowed, correctly sized) bits until you find something that makes both of you happy, then buy that sort of thing - unless you want to spend hundreds on bits, and have them as house decorations later... :wink:


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## Chevylover96

abtiffi said:


> I joined just to ask this question! Standardbred off the track? Yea or "neigh" (sorry I couldn't help myself :lol.
> 
> To give you background, I have 20 years of horse experience. My current horse, the only horse I have owned, I got as a colt 20 years ago for $300. I had him broke by a general horseman, and then started under English saddle by a trainer for a few months before I started riding him. He was barely green broke. He has taught me SO much as he was never an easy horse (still isn't). But, he is starting to slow down and I would like to get a new horse to start training and developing while I slowly ease my current boy into retirement over the course of the next few years.
> 
> I have looked at many warmbloods, warmblood crosses etc and they are all gorgeous horses (and pricey! averaging $8000). While all fine examples of the horse, none of them jumped out at me. Then one day, while browsing my favourite rescue organization's page on Facebook, I came across a super cute 2011 standardbred gelding, and I just couldn't stop thinking about him.
> 
> He is "off the track" but he was never raced as he just wasn't fast enough in time trials. He has been ridden on the trails a few times by the owners of the rescue organization, and they say he is green but willing, and has a puppy dog personality. I have inquired with local Standardbred networks and found out that other horses sired by the same stallion have been phenomenal horses and are wonderful to work with.
> 
> I am seriously considering buying him (vet check this week). However, I just have a few questions as opinions on STBs are so mixed.
> 1. Good idea??
> 2. Jumping??! Some say "hell yes!" some say "no way!"
> 3. This is seriously stumping me...what kind of bit would I start him with?
> 
> Thanks!!


I got an off the track standardbred last year. Being a first time horse owner (but I have leased and all that) and her having no training what so ever to do with riding, you'd think it'd be bad. But she was so so willing, right from day 1 under saddle. I actually had her going w/t/c within the first week. Her canter didn't develop fully until we got out in the fields though, that's when it clicked, and it started to feel like a real canter. Jumping? She's amazing, jumping 3 feet this summer, and her form is really nice. I actually trusted her with my less experienced friend who had never jumped before less than a month after jumping for the first time. My friend jumped her and she didn't lay a wrong foot, my friend felt more confident on her than she did on her own horse who had much more experience. She's 17hh by the way! I've has multiple people ride her and compliment me on her canter, they like it more than some of their own horses. It's gotten to be very smooth. After she put some good weight on, and got lots of muscles, I've actually had people ask me if she was a warmblood! And others ask if I was sure she was a full standardbred because of her movement and looks, and she was a pacer!! I have no complaints with her. We're going through some issues right now due to an old injury that I didn't know about until after I bought her, but she was on the track for a year and won quite a few races, so it's a risk a took. With her new massage therapist and back on track stuff she's coming along finally! 

I'd definitely consider this gelding, Standardbreds are one of my favourite breeds, usually excel at jumping, and make wonderful trail horses as well. I'm actually planning on entering my mare in some lower level dressage competitions too, my instructor thinks she'll do well! 

I've also been told by my instructor that she'd make a great 3 day eventer, I'm hopeful! I wouldn't hesitate to get another off the track standardbred!

I almost forgot, when I first got her I actually had people tell me I was crazy, and she'll never have a good headset, she won't have a good canter, she'll be no good a jumping, ect. But now, someone mentioned it to me during my ride last night... "I never thought I'd see a standardbred with their head down like a normal horse, wow". I prefer her now to any other horse, she puts her head down better and more consistently than most of the horses at my barn! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chevylover96

disastercupcake said:


> I am seriously interested in rescue OTSB's too!
> 
> From what I gather, the pacers you may want to avoid if you are hard set on a discipline like Dressage- their lateral movements, even if you train them to trot, still show up and their canter is usually not 'true'. However for a lovely smooth trail horse, would be perfect
> 
> I would love to find a OTSB for eventing someday! Good luck! Haven't had too much experience with the breed yet, but every one I've met so far has been a real doll


I have an off the track pacer who most people mistake as a warmblood! I think it depends on the horse as far as movement and learning the canter go! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## coalitions

SueC said:


> Hey there, don't let anyone tell you an incorrect generalisation. There are some fantastic mild curb bits around, and curbs have a gradual action, which means horses can respond to very low-level pressure. Also good for re-educating harness racing habituated head positions, although some are just fine learning to go "on the bit" in a snaffle. Depends on the horse.
> 
> Since harness racing horses are frequently taught that "loose reins means relax, rein contact means go" (and the horses look for rein contact during racing), this can then look like a hard mouth to an adopting rider, but it's really just what they were taught, and you have to show them that you want something different now, which can perplex the horse at first. Sometimes it's really helpful to have a very different bit to what the horse raced in, or go bitless for a while, until the horse and you understand each other better anyway.
> 
> We've done curb versus snaffle to death in other threads in this forum lately, and I can post a link if anyone wants it.
> 
> PS: "Halla" on Wikipedia - story of one of the greatest showjumpers ever. Also there are recordings of her on You Tube.



Oh that's very interesting. When you say pressure, do you mean a rein against his neck or a regular "whoa". The issue we have is he doesn't have good breaks and is difficult to stop, when he does he pulls and tosses his head and argues with it. We may be going against what he's learned! He has also went through two previous trainers for saddle though. I know nothing about the first one. The second one insists he was a great ride but he seems to know very little... When I went to meet him she also said he hadn't been ridden for a month and probably only had about 20 rides on him ever. She didn't know if he cantered. Said he wouldn't lunge. All of that was including what was done with trainer one. So it's hard to say where he was with it all when I got him. That very first ride though I didn't do much over a walk because he didn't seem to be responding well to cues. Poor guy, he's probably confused as all heck right now. 

My trainer says he's doing much better though. She is making leaps and bounds with him. It was a milestone when we got him to lunge! He just wanted to follow you everywhere. Took three of us, but when he ubderstood what was being asked, he picked it right up.

Sorry for the ramble! Here I am ranting a bit about the things I said were good about a rescue! It is nice to have contact with previous trainers as I said... even if it's to confirm how little was done! Haha. But he does know the basics and his greenness was well communicated by them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ChristineNJ

I was considering a Standardbred but decided that that SB Trot was just too much for me. I just like a quieter trot that I can sit instead of posting & a rocking horse canter. You have to teach a SB to canter because they are trained to trot only! I just felt that they would need a lot of retraining before they would be good for me. They do have nice personalities though.


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## abtiffi

coalitions said:


> says he's doing much better though. She is making leaps and bounds with him. It was a milestone when we got him to lunge! He just wanted to follow you everywhere. Took three of us, but when he ubderstood what was being asked, he picked it right up.


How did you get him to understand how to lunge? I'm not sure where this guy is, either. I don't mind putting the time into him though becuase my current horse won't be completely retired for a couple years still. The vet check is on Friday so I guess I will find out then if lunging is something he knows or not.


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## abtiffi

ChristineNJ said:


> I was considering a Standardbred but decided that that SB Trot was just too much for me. I just like a quieter trot that I can sit instead of posting & a rocking horse canter. You have to teach a SB to canter because they are trained to trot only! I just felt that they would need a lot of retraining before they would be good for me. They do have nice personalities though.


All I really care about is that he has a nice personality and is willing to learn. The rescue organization says he has a puppy dog personality and is very willing (was in the description of him before I even inquired about him) so I'm hoping he is. As long as he is not obstinate and in my face, I don't mind taking the time to work with him and teach him new things. I honestly want kind of a project horse to improve my horsemanship.


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## abtiffi

Chevylover96 said:


> I almost forgot, when I first got her I actually had people tell me I was crazy, and she'll never have a good headset, she won't have a good canter, she'll be no good a jumping, ect.


This is exactly what I am being told by everyone I talk to who hasn't worked with Standies. But, what you are saying about them being extremely versatile and excelling at many disciplines is what everyone who HAS worked with standies is telling me. So, when it comes to this, I think experience talks...everyone else is being completely ignorant about the breed. Only one person I know who has a standie says he can't do much with him, but he didn't get him off the track, he got him from someone else who picked him up off the track and didn't do anything other than trails with him for the entire time he had him (several years). I think the younger they are/the less racing they have done the better, and it's best to start them right away under saddle and getting them to work towards whatever discipline you want to do with them.


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## SueNH

Standarbreds rock! You won't be sorry.

http://sphomaine.net/


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## roadswarrior

If you have the option of free lunging in a roundpen it is good place to start. Most will try and come to you and not stay on the outside so you are doing lots of reeling the line in and out. 

Also wanted to mention for the canter, when starting them out it will be easier for them to go in a straight line under saddle as they can be off balance around turns. You can also try voice cues for the first bit while lunging (tounge click for trot, smootch for canter is what I use) and it transfers well over to under saddle work.

I wanted to mention the longevity of the breed. I got my guy a year ago and was told he was 19, but a little research was done and found out he will be 24 this year. People think he is 10 if I don't tell them his actual age. We ride 4-5 days a week in the ring, trail, track and road w/t/c with no problems. He raced for 4 years between 92-96 and did have some previous injuries, but joint supplements have done wonders.


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## abtiffi

roadswarrior said:


> Also wanted to mention for the canter, when starting them out it will be easier for them to go in a straight line under saddle as they can be off balance around turns. You can also try voice cues for the first bit while lunging (tounge click for trot, smootch for canter is what I use) and it transfers well over to under saddle work


I was thinking this as well. I know they are trained to go faster with a whip on their rump, so I was thinking when I start him under saddle, I will ride with a dressage whip. When I ask him for a trot or canter, I will combine voice cues/leg pressure with a tap with the dressage whip behind the saddle, and hopefully he will learn that these mean the same thing.


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## Idrivetrotters

I rode my racing stock a lot of the time, especially the pacers. For whatever reason, pacers get sour (I honestly think it's the constant hopples but even when my pacers only saw hopples on race day/training miles they would get a little sour) so I would throw my Aussie saddle on and just hack around the track.

It really depends on the horse as far as bits go. I usually start off in a full cheek french link but my current OTSTB was a hard puller on the track and he has a large tongue with a low palette so he loves his Peewee bit. I have had great luck with a dog bone Argentine snaffle on my gaited trail horses but 95% love the full cheek french link.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...90655136.1073741833.1492116156&type=3&theater


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## abtiffi

Idrivetrotters said:


> I have had great luck with a dog bone Argentine snaffle on my gaited trail horses but 95% love the full cheek french link.


Curious, why full cheek and not plain rings?


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## Idrivetrotters

Full cheek gives a little extra push without the bit slipping around their mouths. It is a very mild bit that is really good at developing lateral and diagonal cues. Since STBs have not had a lot of people on their backs this also gives them one less issue while you are starting them under saddle. Their backs are not as strong as TBs coming off the track and if they are concerned about new people and equipment on their backs, the last thing they need is too much confusion in their mouths.

Remember, most STBs have hundreds if not thousands of miles looking between that bridle, their mouths while not tough, have been conditioned to have a light feel during jog times but they will latch on during training and racing. Most of my STBs are "two fingers" easy as far as steering goes, so a mild bit that gives concise cues is preferable.


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## abtiffi

Oh ok, that does make sense! Thank you so much


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## SueNH

I didn't jump mine at all unless you count a tree down across the trail. If was too big I'd go around it. I used a d-ring snaffle on her on one bridle. I had a bosal on the one I used the most. My STB already had a lot of trail miles on her when I got her. If she had been greener I probably would have used a full cheek. I did buy one just in case.


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## BlueSpark

I have seen both sides of the coin. I rode a 20 year old gelding that had raced and was now a phenomenal saddle horse. Neck reined, doubled, ponied other horses, lovely gaits, fantastic mountain horse. I was very enthusiastic about the breed. 

Then I worked with a green mare. She had maybe 120 days saddle training, mostly trails. She was the most stubborn, rough, clumsy mare. If she got arguing(happened frequently) with you she forgot her feet and stumbled alarmingly. Her gait(pace) was like sitting on top of a barrel, strapped to four jack hammers. Her trot was decent, when you could get her into it, which took a tremendous amount of effort, and it usually only lasted a few strides before she reverted to a pace. Her canter was huge and hard to sit, and getting her to canter involved pushing her fast enough to get past a pace, which was nearly impossible, and just about rattled your teeth out. She HATED to canter. I spent months riding this horse. She was sound, A+ vet check, but horrid as a saddle horse. That said she was really nice looking, big and strong with lovely feet. When you could catch her in a moment when she was actually cooperating, she looked a lot like a warmblood.

So I guess if the standardbred was anything like the first gelding, I would jump at the chance to own it, but if it was anything like the mare, I wouldn't take it for free.


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## Idrivetrotters

I'd blame the mare's pedigree more than the whole breed, just like every breed there are all kinds but most are within the bell curve. I've had a few (especially Nihilator's) that their entire career is being recalcitrant. My current OTSTB is a Tagliabue who is notorious for throwing stubborn and argumentative get. My guy has his "Tag" moments but thankfully he gets over them fairly quickly. At the end of the day, the STB is my absolute favorite breed.


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## SueNH

Mine was raced trained but only had a couple of starts. Just not fast enough. She did lean on the bit still occasionally. She was the rare free legged pacer when she raced. I actually got her gaiting like a TWH under saddle. Smooth as all get out. Her canter was lovely but her own personal preference was the speed rack.

It just takes time. As a race horse they were taught not to break into a canter. You have to retrain them, make them realize it's ok.

Find the book by Robin Cuffey and read.

*Retraining the Harness Racehorse*

 by Mary Anne Donovan-Wright & Robyn Cuffey


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## abtiffi

Idrivetrotters said:


> I'd blame the mare's pedigree more than the whole breed


This is the pedigree of the guy I'm looking at. I have been told As Promised was a gentleman of a stallion himself, both on and off the track. I have spoken to several people who have owned and worked with other horses by As Promised, and they have all only had good things to say - wonderful personalities, very willing and trustworthy, and nice canters. As Promised was the golden boy of Alberta harness racing. When he passed away last year they had an "As Promised Day" at Northlands park.

Robert T Standardbred


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## roadswarrior

Be careful using a whip as some can be terrified of them. Best to use a lunge whip during lunging and see how they react to it first. If they are scared then do some desensitizing training to show them there is nothing to be frightened of.


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## SueC

ChristineNJ said:


> I was considering a Standardbred but decided that that SB Trot was just too much for me. I just like a quieter trot that I can sit instead of posting & a rocking horse canter. You have to teach a SB to canter because they are trained to trot only! I just felt that they would need a lot of retraining before they would be good for me. They do have nice personalities though.


Mythbusting time.

1) There is no such thing as "the SB trot". SBs like other horses have individual variations at the trot. If you can't sit a particular horse's trot comfortably, and it's not because of you, often it's because the shoulder blade angle is steep, and that makes a bumpy ride. Because the SB is a working breed, it is less likely to have steep shoulder blades. I've ridden lots of SBs and have never had an issue sitting their trots. I'm sure there are some with uncomfortable trots out there, but I haven't ridden one myself. The SB/French trotter cross I currently ride has a trot very similar to my Arabian mare (and endurance Arabians are often capable of fabulous extended, ground-covering trots too), and guest riders have been very comfortable on him.

2) You do not have to teach the majority of SBs to canter, as most of them do it naturally in their paddocks. When you have an OTSB, you may have to teach your horse that cantering is now part of the work programme, and you want them to do it. But then, there are quite a few SB trainers who actually canter and gallop their horses in the cart, on sand tracks, to get their fitness up, and who trail ride them at all their different gaits. It's no big deal to ask the majority of SBs for a canter-on. Rocking-horse canters aren't all that common with the SBs that I've ridden or seen either. 

One problem you can encounter is that horses that raced at a pace can initially mix up their legs at the canter (because that's what happens when they break up in hobbles), but then you just transition them back to a trot and canter-on again until they "get it" - working serpentines and curves at the canter helps with this, and with changing leads. But this is really something you have to practice with any horse new to a rider, because being a riding horse is kind of like being a ballerina with a monkey on its back - it takes time to get used to balancing the load gracefully. I guess most people don't saddle educate young riding horses, or ride green horses, and perhaps don't know what the early phases feel like. A green horse of any breed won't canter as smoothly as the same horse after a year's schooling.

There is a minority of SBs who don't like to canter. In my experience, usually they are free-legged pacers (but many free-legged pacers canter just fine). Is that what other SB people have found too?


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## SueC

coalitions said:


> Oh that's very interesting. When you say pressure, do you mean a rein against his neck or a regular "whoa".


Neither... I ride English so maybe that's why the confusion - I just meant that when you ride in a curb bit, with your rein attached to the lever / lower D ring slot, then the action of halting or half-halting the rein produces a gradual response at the bit end, as the level / D ring turns and then pressure on the bars of the horse's mouth comes on gradually, rather than sharply as with a snaffle. So your rein action is spread through space and time compared with rein action on a snaffle bit, where one unit of movement at your end results in one unit of movement at the mouth end. The gradual action of a curb bit allows the horse to start responding to the earliest, lightest pressure. (And the moment the horse responds, you back off - as with all aids.)





> The issue we have is he doesn't have good breaks and is difficult to stop, when he does he pulls and tosses his head and argues with it. We may be going against what he's learned!


So use half-halts and halts, and be encouraging - lots of praise when he starts to get it. The head-tossing and arguing usually means he hasn't learnt what you want yet, and / or the bit is bothering him, and/or the rider is hanging on rather than using half-halts and halts. Using verbal cues in combination with rein (and leg) cues is good when re-educating. Teach those cues on the ground first - in a stable halter, then with reins leading on the ground, finally riding. When riding, ride him up to a wall or fence and then cue him to stop, which he'll naturally want to do anyway, and then praise. Use the fence or wall like that and when he gets good at stopping there, ask him to stop a little further away from it, and then in other places. It's always a good idea to make it easy for your horse to do the right thing.


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## SueC

BlueSpark said:


> I have seen both sides of the coin. I rode a 20 year old gelding that had raced and was now a phenomenal saddle horse. Neck reined, doubled, ponied other horses, lovely gaits, fantastic mountain horse. I was very enthusiastic about the breed.
> 
> Then I worked with a green mare. She had maybe 120 days saddle training, mostly trails. She was the most stubborn, rough, clumsy mare..


I really think a riding horse education needs to include at least basic dressage training in an arena. Riding voltes, serpentines, lots of transitions etc is so good for the horse's balance, and for learning to communicate with a rider. If you take an SB off the track and just throw it on a trail, you're really throwing it into the deep end unprepared. I bet you that old gelding had been well educated by someone. The mare may have had less aptitude, but also sounds like she would have appreciated a better level of saddle education away from a trail. What do you think?


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## Frankiee

I've trained 2 standies and can honestly say they are an amazing breed! One was racing for a good 7 years he was a pacer and he is now a wondeful trail horse walk, trot and canter he doe English and western they are very well rounded horses. I[ never worked with a trotter but for a pacer I strongly believe that gait is not naturel for a horse that why those horses need hobbles for them not to break out of it. Therefore it was fearly easy to convice the standie's I worked with to break out of the pace. They are amazing horses to work with I actualy found it more easier to work with an OTSB then my own OTTB. The only reason I did not jump the OTSB's I worked with was because there legs could not do it from pass injuries. But if you have an sound standie there is no problem jumping these horses.

These are picure of a standie Demo and I'm only using regular snaffle loose ring as his bit.


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## abtiffi

SueC said:


> The mare may have had less aptitude, but also sounds like she would have appreciated a better level of saddle education away from a trail. What do you think?


I agree with you completely! I have never worked with a STB but I know many horses of many other breeds that could benefit from some good flat and lateral work for this exact reason. I have a 20yr old gelding who I just use as a pleasure horse (and have for a few years now) but nonetheless I am constantly bringing him back to these kinds of basics to give him refreshers. Nice flat work in the arena = a much nicer ride on the trail.


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## BlueSpark

> The mare may have had less aptitude, but also sounds like she would have appreciated a better level of saddle education away from a trail. What do you think?


 I have started upwards of 10 horses from scratch, retrained many problem horses and re schooled over a dozen ottb's, so while I have TONS left to learn, I'm not entirely uneducated in the training department. The mare came to us with essentially very basic trail riding after her driving career. she knew how to pack a person in a straight line, do basic turns and stops and was comfortable wearing a saddle and bridle. I agree that she needed more arena work, learning the basic skills that the gelding had obviously learned well in his younger years. I tried doing arena work with her. we worked extensively on getting her soft to the bit, stopping correctly, backing, circles, serpentines, trot poles, basic transitions. Despite months of work the progress was slow and minimal, I believe her attitude was the main cause. the mare was stubborn and had no try. She didn't WANT to work, and unfortunately you cant fix a personality.




> I'd blame the mare's pedigree more than the whole breed, just like every breed there are all kinds but most are within the bell curve.


 I don't blame the breed. I wasn't very clear. I agree with the above statement. You have to treat them all as individuals. I think you can find some challenges more common in off the track standardbreds that you should be aware of when buying, just the same as there are a similar, but different set of challenges for an ottb. 

many people despise breed stereotyping, but the fact is, it came about for a reason. That reason NEVER applies to a breed as a whole, but a stereotype can give you something to look out for when choosing a member of a breed. For example, "look out for those crazy thoroughbreds! all their good for is 'runnin!". Of course it doesn't apply to the whole breed, but there are some very hot thoroughbreds that are extremely ill suited as safe riding horses. My BO had one that she wanted to use for endurance. Best scores and recovery rates I'd ever seen, and man could he cover the ground, but he was absolutely NUTS. I watched him jig sideways down a steep trail with very sketchy footing, nearly killing himself and his experienced rider. In contrast there are very quiet thoroughbreds that have come off the track virtually kid safe from day 1. Same with spooky Arabians. I've owned 2 that were so spooky and unpredictable that they made very poor mounts, even after years of work. In contrast I own an absolutely incredible one now. They are all individuals, just like people.


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## coalitions

SueC said:


> Using verbal cues in combination with rein (and leg) cues is good when re-educating. Teach those cues on the ground first - in a stable halter, then with reins leading on the ground, finally riding. When riding, ride him up to a wall or fence and then cue him to stop, which he'll naturally want to do anyway, and then praise. Use the fence or wall like that and when he gets good at stopping there, ask him to stop a little further away from it, and then in other places. It's always a good idea to make it easy for your horse to do the right thing.


We are working him with verbal cues. He is coming along well with them on the ground. Great advice! I will give all this try.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## roadswarrior

My pacer canters just fine and seems to prefer it to the trot, but on occasion when in a new situation or is nervous he will pace. His trot is very big and I have found few people who can sit it well for any length of time. 

For the new ones just starting to be ridden they can have what we call a "panter". It is very close to a canter but not quite there, looks like a very lazy canter with the horse not picking up its feet.


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## roadswarrior

Frankiee said:


> I never worked with a trotter but for a pacer I strongly believe that gait is not naturel for a horse that why those horses need hobbles for them not to break out of it.


Believe me that pace is a natural gait. When they are babies you can see them in the fields pacing away with no hobbles and no training. 

Some are more apt to it than others and do not require hobbles when racing. The hobbles are not there to make them pace but to remind them to as I have seen some that will canter with them on when they get a bit too excited.


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## SueNH

A pace is very natural for a lot of horses. My STB raced at the pace sans hobbles. She had no trouble cantering. At liberty she would often revert to the pace but could trot too.

My TWH paces at liberty as her gait of choice in the field. We are working at her other more comfy gaits under saddle(if this blasted snow ever melts).


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## Idrivetrotters

The hopples don't force the gait, it just helps the pacer to stay on gait and stabilize around those turns especially tight turns at smaller tracks.


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## caglover

My boy, under saddle, racks. No pace at all...a very smooth rack. He has about 4 or 5 different gears of the rack. His slow rack is very very smooth, as he speeds up it get a little less smooth until he hits full speed (he can and has "run away" from horses at a full canter and TWH and top speed).
He will canter for a better rider than I am...my daughter can get a real nice canter out of him ...I can only seem to get it going uphill.
Match raced for about 10 years with 287 starts...


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## SueC

roadswarrior said:


> My pacer canters just fine and seems to prefer it to the trot, but on occasion when in a new situation or is nervous he will pace. His trot is very big and I have found few people who can sit it well for any length of time.


RW, I'm curious whether your horse has had any re-training to show him how to do working and collected trotting? Many SBs will give you medium and extended because they mean business at the trot, and it doesn't occur to them to slow up or decrease stride length until this becomes part of their training - whereas less ground-covering breeds will naturally plod along at the working trot and have to be taught medium and extended. It's much easier to sit working and collected trots. :lol:

I spent quite a bit of time teaching my SB/FT cross to do this in his saddle re-education, and he has a lovely soft working trot on request now that he knows what I want! (He was going, "Oh really? OK, I can do that!" ) Shortening / lengthening stride and tempo is good practice and good fun.

I often find SBs tend to prefer cantering on soft surfaces and trotting / pacing on harder surfaces - the latter remind OTSBs of tracks, plus it's more energy-effective for a horse to canter in soft ground.


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## Idrivetrotters

I agree, I find it so much easier to power down that trot than to drag one up to an extended trot. My trotter has a HUGE trot at liberty and between the shafts but when riding he prefers to gait but when I ask him to trot I can get a nice postable trot. Now, this took some work on transitions, teaching him gears, and controlling his extension with posting. Took a few weeks and I rarely trot him now (he has a wonderful ground covering fox trot and a fox walk that keeps up easily with Walkers) but when I do ask for a trot I can get a nice working trot with just a little seat cues.


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## KigerQueen

I love standies and i have never worked with one lol. I suspect the my bfs "TB" (no tattoo) is a standie. How many TBs can do a running walk? Not many XD!


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## amigoboy

SueC said:


> RW, I'm curious whether your horse has had any re-training to show him how to do working and collected trotting? Many SBs will give you medium and extended because they mean business at the trot, and it doesn't occur to them to slow up or decrease stride length until this becomes part of their training - whereas less ground-covering breeds will naturally plod along at the working trot and have to be taught medium and extended. It's much easier to sit working and collected trots. :lol:
> 
> I spent quite a bit of time teaching my SB/FT cross to do this in his saddle re-education, and he has a lovely soft working trot on request now that he knows what I want! (He was going, "Oh really? OK, I can do that!" ) Shortening / lengthening stride and tempo is good practice and good fun.
> 
> *I often find SBs tend to prefer cantering on soft surfaces and trotting / pacing on harder surfaces - the latter remind OTSBs of tracks, plus it's more energy-effective for a horse to canter in soft ground.*


Now that was interesting.....never thought about that Sue.
I´ll check that out this week-end.


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## SueC

IDT, it's SO cool that your enjoy driving / racing, AND riding your SB, and that you appear to seriously work on the riding side as well! My father used to ride a lot, then he started buying, breeding and driving harness horses 30 years ago, and it became nearly impossible to get him onto a horse's back from that time on!

Maybe you could perplex all the naysayers by producing a racewinner with a dual career in dressage? That'd upset a few applecarts! :lol:


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## roadswarrior

Hey Sue, indeed he does do a nice collected trot but it is still massive. Previous to me owning him he was doing dressage training level 2 and showing level 1, from what information was given to me. But I'm not sure how true that could be as they told me he was 19 and turned out to be 23 :/

I have been doing lessons with him and we will do a nice collected trot on the short sides and open it up on the long, but its not much easier to sit. Even the trainer got on him and had troubles sitting for more than a few beats. I prefer to post so its not an issue for me currently. 

I 100% notice the canter in soft ground vs. pace on hard ground.


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## SueC

So you have a natural pacer, RW? Is he a leg pacer or a body pacer? A body pacer sways from side to side when pacing, a leg pacer's back remains relatively still when pacing.


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## mobilenaturaltrainer

My uncle and grandfather were both blacksmiths and standard bred horse trainers. So I have work with hundreds of them off track and re educating them for riding. 

Basically review the foundation of ground training and focus on what they do not know. You may want to read http:
//horse.on.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Adopting-a-Standardbred.pdf
Why Adopt a Standardbred? - J & M Acres Horse Rescue
Standardbred Pleasure & Performance Horse Assocation of Victoria Inc. - The Standardbred

I know from experience they are an excellent breed. The breed is quite good at jumping, making them suitable for the sport horse disciplines of hunt seat, show jumping, show hunter, and eventing. The breed is also seen in dressage, and their excellent temperaments make them good trail riding and ranch horses.


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## Idrivetrotters

@Sue I've ridden/shown and raced a few of my STBs over the years. None were open horses (top of our classification) most were low level racers but loved them none the less. I am not training racing stock at the moment, but I am still involved with reschooling and rehoming STBs from the track and Amish backgrounds.

I love my guys lovely fox trot, and we will start combined driving training this fall.


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## amigoboy

SueC said:


> So you have a natural pacer, RW? Is he a leg pacer or a body pacer? A body pacer sways from side to side when pacing, a leg pacer's back remains relatively still when pacing.


Now that is some more cool informaiton, did not know that either.
Did you and your dad have pacers too?
We do not have pacers here, only the trotter.
I did get the chance to ride a TW that went into Pacing Mode when i was in Arizona, the big black mare would slip into what you mentioned a "body pace" when her nose was pointed too home, man that was rough, her head went side to side and my body with it! but for the most she had a beautifull running walk that she could hold all day out there in the desert.

Going to test out your earlier tips today.
later


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## amigoboy

mobilenaturaltrainer said:


> My uncle and grandfather were both blacksmiths and standard bred horse trainers. So I have work with hundreds of them off track and re educating them for riding.
> 
> Basically review the foundation of ground training and focus on what they do not know. You may want to read http:
> //horse.on.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Adopting-a-Standardbred.pdf
> Why Adopt a Standardbred? - J & M Acres Horse Rescue
> Standardbred Pleasure & Performance Horse Assocation of Victoria Inc. - The Standardbred
> 
> I know from experience they are an excellent breed. The breed is quite good at jumping, making them suitable for the sport horse disciplines of hunt seat, show jumping, show hunter, and eventing. The breed is also seen in dressage, and their excellent temperaments make them good trail riding and ranch horses.


Many thanks for the sites, went straight into my Favorits.
God Bless You.
Amigo


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## OliviaMyee

I VOUCH FOR THE STANDARDBREDS, over most horses especially OTTBS or Thoroughbreds which are usually hotter* including Show Ponies and Warmbloods.

Off the track Standies are usually much easier to break in because they have been trained to go forward from behind, and to behave in that manner ! They dont suffer from as much sacro, back or leg injuries as of the track tb's.


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## abtiffi

*Bought him!!*

If anyone is still following this...I officially bought my new boy today! I am SO excited and I can't wait! He will arrive next weekend


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## coalitions

Congrats!!!! He's such a cutie. Keep us updated!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## amigoboy

All I can say is "WELCOME TO THE CLUB"
Remember!! He´ll need a little time - good feed & lot´s of TLC.
In about 1 year you´ll have a good horse.


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## abtiffi

amigoboy said:


> All I can say is "WELCOME TO THE CLUB"
> Remember!! He´ll need a little time - good feed & lot´s of TLC.
> In about 1 year you´ll have a good horse.


Thank you!

I know, he will take some work. I am in no rush to do anything with him other than help him gain confidence and experience


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## amigoboy

You are up early, I am getting ready to check out the horseshoeing compitition held in the local town.

Not so much work as "join up fun"!
Take him for walks, picnicks, just spent time with him. He comes from a stressfull life. 
My Amigo was really wired when he came, put him in with the old fjord mare and she took care of him, he follower her around like a little kid, she got him to standd quite in the sun and just go into himself and meditate. He´s stand for hours kinda hunch up almost like he was sick....but he wasn´t, just sick and tired in spirit, he needed time and that is what he got, too about 6 months and I could see him comming out of himself, realized "this was his home - his world". After that he would act like a frisky 2 years old even though he was 8yrs. He was trying to catch up all those years he had missed because of the Track Life.
You will do fine.


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## rookie

You two are going to have a great time!


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## roadswarrior

Congrats abtiffi! The best of luck with your new boy.


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## SueC

amigoboy said:


> Now that is some more cool informaiton, did not know that either.
> Did you and your dad have pacers too?
> We do not have pacers here, only the trotter.
> I did get the chance to ride a TW that went into Pacing Mode when i was in Arizona, the big black mare would slip into what you mentioned a "body pace" when her nose was pointed too home, man that was rough, her head went side to side and my body with it! but for the most she had a beautifull running walk that she could hold all day out there in the desert.


Hey, yes, in Europe when we left 30 years ago they only had trotters, although they were debating what to do with some of the natural, free-legged pacers who at that stage were just racing in the open trotting competition (because pacing is slightly faster). We took a French Trotter mare out to Australia with us. She was just a pet but had, with a prior owner, had 6 foals, the eldest of which were racing successfully. We were just riding back then, but when we got to Australia the harness racing association rang my father and encouraged him to breed from her so her (rare in WA) genes would be added to the local SB population. She died of internal bleeding 24h after foaling and the colt foal was bottle fed. He had no idea how to pace, and there were no trotting races in WA back then, so my father bought several young SB mares, trained and raced them, with the view to breeding them to his FT/SB cross colt when he grew up. That's how he got into harness racing. I've always preferred riding. Sunsmart is a great-grandson of the FT mare and has her trot, it's uncanny, like turning the clock back.

In recent years they have added trotting races locally, but they have this stupid rule that imported horses can start again from the bottom of the classification as if they've never raced, so local trotters don't get a look in as they have to compete, in maiden class, against $50,000+ winning trotters imported from NZ, who are cleaning up all the races around here because of this unfair advantage. (I'm so glad I'm not in harness racing, but I get annoyed enough about all this stuff just getting it from conversations with my father!)

Yeah, a "body pace" is like riding a camel on speed!


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## coalitions

If you know his tattoo and need his info from the us trotter association let me know. I just confirmed Brego's bloodlines ($2 I think) but the least you can add to your account is $10... so I have some credits left.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## amigoboy

I think Amigo has a bit of French on his mammas side, papers just say German.
The rest is USA after Diamond Way Diamond Way Standardbred
He looks like an exakt copy of his grandad x 8 Peter the Great Peter The Great Standardbred


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## WildAtHeart

I can't say a whole lot on this as I just rode a standardbred for the first time today. But for that same reason this thread jumped out at me. 

From what my coach told me about standardbreds they are very good tempered horses but can be hard to train. They are able to do loads of different things but it takes time to train them to do those things. Of course this all depends on the horse.

I rode a SB today because one of the boarders at the barn where I ride is trying to sell her. But the thing is the owners are a bit scared of her. I think they get nervous and then the horse does too of course. But there is someone coming out tomorrow to have a look at buying this mare and my coach asked me to ride her today because the owners hadn't ridden her in a while. 

She had a whole different feel from any horse I've ever ridden...but different can be fun. She was however, not nervous for me at all but very calm, sweet, and definitely eager to please.

Just my small experience with SB =)


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## abtiffi

coalitions said:


> If you know his tattoo and need his info from the us trotter association let me know. I just confirmed Brego's bloodlines ($2 I think) but the least you can add to your account is $10... so I have some credits left.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh thanks! The rescue organization got his papers for me but thank you 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OliviaMyee

I dont think Stb in general as a stereotype take long to train, i think every horse takes long to train. And i can think of many horses that are hard to train, but i think that when referring to their behaviour i have seen allot more stbs be far superbly behaved than any other breeds of horse i have seen. I think it must depend on genetics and temperament but also how they are trained to pace i think that the way they are trained to pace, doesnt affect them mentally and physiology as when you compare them to an ex of the track tb. 

I think it can take a while to train them out of pacing if they were a trotter or pacer, but in all i think their uphill conformation and their temperament which is usually ( not always) more relaxed than the full hot blooded horses.


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## Idrivetrotters

I've not found STBs harder to train, if anything certain things come easier to them. Most are happy to go forward, nothing worse than dragging a recalcitrant horse around. If they are confused, normally their first instinct is to stop, much better than fighting or throwing temper tantrums although a STB once they learn something takes it very personally if you keep drilling them in it. They learn it and then they want to move on, constantly drilling them will make them sour. 

Yeah, there are a few lines out there that are difficult to work with, Nihilator and Tagliabue leap to mind, but the STB has been selectively bred to be not only athletic but fairly forgiving.

I no longer have my Nihilator mare (she was a pill) and I currently have a 12 yo Tagliabue that has really taught me more and made me a better rider than any easier going horse. Beaux isn't bad, but he has his "Tag" moments where he asks me how seriously I am about what I'm asking. Usually once I'm firm but gentle off he goes as if he is thinking "OK she is good enough for my cooperation" 

Love love love my Standards, my absolutely favorite breed. They are so versatile, so sane, and athletic, nothing they can't do.


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## abtiffi

Idrivetrotters said:


> Yeah, there are a few lines out there that are difficult to work with, Nihilator and Tagliabue leap to mind, but the STB has been selectively bred to be not only athletic but fairly forgiving.


I've heard this before about these lines and I've checked his bloodlines a hundred times for them haha, neither show up! I've done some research on his sire and I even know some people with standies by the same boy, and they all say wonderful things about his babies. So, I'm hoping for the same with this guy


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## Idrivetrotters

Nihilator never should have made it to the races he was so rank, but he had one of the best trainers in the business at that time. I had a few of his get, the mares seemed worse, even when paired up with easier going lines. My Nihilator was by Ambercrombie a super easy going horse and a few Jate Lobells and nothing took that edge off. Thankfully he wasn't super supported as a stud. Tagliabue's are notoriously stubborn and obstinate but talented trotters, but he fell out of favor for much easier and just as talented lines. That is one good thing about STB people, we stop supporting stallions as soon as we see issues. TBs just keep on breeding those crappy lines until the studs shoots blanks or they get shipped overseas.


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## rookie

I agree with you on that one. There are a few things I would change about the industry but the fact that a horse needs to be safe to be around is not one of them. I like that the ability of a "regular" person to handle the horse is still valued.


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## Idrivetrotters

I love the fact that most of STB racing people are families. My kids and a lot of others were raised on the backside, we had toys and playsets in the middle ground between barns. Kids would all play and help out, heck, we would jog some of our horses in the 2 seater job cart so the kids (with helmets) could jog with us. My daughter was jogging with help at age 10. You couldn't have that kind of family atmosphere at the tb tracks. Trainability and tractability are huge factors in the STB lines. I think this is paying off as our times are dropping, new world records are now happening every racing meet. Yes, the new race bikes help that numbers but our breed is becoming so well gaited that it doesn't take nearly as long to get a STB gaiting nicely. Our big 3 yo races are held in the fall, when they've had the summer to compete and be in top racing condition. Our drug laws are much stricter than the TBs on top of it all. Our biggest race the Hambo is raced with zero mediation. Even The Little Brown Jug is still heat racing. I could go into how much longer the horses race and even a mediocre racehorse still has a way of earning a nice living. Our claiming races are nowhere near as bad as the TB claiming game. 

Love my STBs and even the racing side!


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## SueC

IDT, do you know anything about the temperament of the legendary pacer Albatross? Was he a good sort?


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## caglover

Both our boys have Albatross...but that is not very uncommon!
he had 2,546 offspring...and how many offspring of did those 2545 have!
It's a big list, I bet!


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## rookie

Idrivetrotters I completely agree, I have a love/hate thoughts on the heats. Its so hard on horses but I love that our horse are tough enough to do it. I also love that its not unusual to see horse racing at 9 year old and that we had to put a 14 year mandatory retirement age. I also think the way the horses are bred, raised and trained has a huge impact on how willing to work they are and how easy to handle. I hate that some folks take advantage of that and work them to the bone. Iron horse awards are amazing but also sort of depressing.

Edit to add: Albatross is sort of like Superbowl most of them have him lurking around.


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## SueC

caglover said:


> Both our boys have Albatross...but that is not very uncommon!
> he had 2,546 offspring...and how many offspring of did those 2545 have!
> It's a big list, I bet!


I knew one of those offspring really well, The Sunbird Hanover, who was imported into Australia as a sire. Looked like Albatross and was one of the nicest horses I ever met. Not just a beautiful, large-framed, athletic horse with a swan neck, but the sweetest temperament. He just loved people, and was a real gentleman with other horses. I'm really curious if he got more than his looks from Albatross - or if the nice disposition was from his dam Sunray Mimi (or maybe even both parents were sweeties).


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## Idrivetrotters

Yup, Albatross was supported for a reason, good temperament, good gaits, and good work ethic. He is in a lot of pacers pedigrees, sort of like how Rodney is in a lot of trotters. I jokingly say my guy only has about 4 horses in his pedigree he is so linebred, Rodney, Speedy Scot, his son Speedy Crown, and Nevele Pride. It is that Tagliabue that dominates his personality. 

@Rookie, I had 3 make it to 14 all were amateur trotters but we had a few pacers race til they were 9 or so. I love our horses are so tough but it also makes it easier to work them way too hard. I love it that my guy thinks 5 miles is a warm up


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## abtiffi

Idrivetrotters said:


> Yup, Albatross was supported for a reason, good temperament, good gaits, and good work ethic. He is in a lot of pacers pedigrees, sort of like how Rodney is in a lot of trotters. I jokingly say my guy only has about 4 horses in his pedigree he is so linebred, Rodney, Speedy Scot, his son Speedy Crown, and Nevele Pride. It is that Tagliabue that dominates his personality.


Haha, Albatross is actually on both sides of my guy too. He has Abercrombie on both sides as well, and Adios on his sire's side.


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## Idrivetrotters

I do love those pacers with Albatross and Jate Lobell in their pedigrees, they threw some solid babies. It is by having good linebreeding to some of these super stallions that we have seen such a marked improvement in the Standardbred. That coarse "jughead" is all but gone (still have a longer face but now has a refined look) and their body style is getting long and leaner. The athleticism has just been phenomenal, we have seen some serious seconds fall of world records. I know the race bikes help a lot but even John Campbell said maybe that accounts for around 3 seconds, another 2-3 seconds is from improved breeding. 

While TB times have been stagnant or regressed, STBs have progressed. I will be shocked if trotters don't hit a sub 1:50 mile in the next 2 years. There are some fiercely well gaited trotters racing right now.

I could go on for days on pedigrees and such, so I'll stop here before I start rambling.


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## rookie

Actually I really love your insights into pedigree! Ramble away. I think the recent speed is amazing. It was not long ago when a 2 minute mile was revolutionary. It does make you wonder how the greats would have raced if they had todays lighter bikes and faster shoes. Imagine how amazing horses like Dan Patch or Greyhound would be on todays tracks. 

We have a little six year old mare and her three year old filly. Todays mission of leading the mare and foal into the stall today reminded me why I love these horses. A bit of a fuss (from the baby, who is learning to lead still) but they both were haltered and led into the stall with just me.


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## abtiffi

If anyone is _still_ following this, here is an update on Charlie! It's his third birthday today and I have had him for exactly one week.

Meeting Charlie when he arrived  








Playing a bit this morning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3BRz0cSwHM

And some photos from this morning too:
Being goofy








The "prettiest" two pics I managed to get haha, he was silly this morning


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## Strawberry4Me

Standardbred owner here too- Sadie also has Albatross and Abercrombie bloodlines. Along with Cam Fella and Big Towner. 

I think they are all pretty popular. 

I agree that Standardbreds have incredible minds and can learn just about anything. I have always been a horse person, more into QHs and Paints- but I am ever so impressed with Sadie and how smart and willing she is. I don't think I will ever go back to stocky breeds.


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## SueC

I found nice photos of my OT FT/SB five years ago during his early saddle education:





























Sunsmart's 15.2hh, so he's normal for his breed - it's me who is extremely tall. ;-) My friend's late TB Rikki-Tikki-Tavi was a giant horse, 17hh!


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## rookie

I don't know what I envy more the beach or the horse!


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## SueC

The beach is lovely, and only one of many. This is Albany - we're 25 minutes out, and we don't have a float, so no beach rides usually, this was an outing with a friend and float when the horse was agisted in Albany.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...hannel=fs&q=albany+western+australia&tbm=isch

The horse was gelded aged 12 only months before the photos. He was a difficult stallion (aggressive to people and horses) and would not have been a good re-home for anyone who didn't know him well, but I knew him from birth because my father bred him. He was always wonderfully athletic and my pick of my father's bunch for a personal riding horse to follow up my retiring mare, and I jumped at the chance to take him on when my father finally stopped trying to teach him to pace, which he would not - he's a trotter, but there were no trotting races. This horse used to gallop around the sand track with Dad in the cart inexhaustibly, and that's why he tried to race him for so long.

I'm pleased to say that Sunsmart thrived with being ridden, and gelded, and socialised with other horses. While still very assertive and the alpha horse, he's fine to run with other horses and our little donkeys now. It's a super outcome for everyone.

This is him, and my recently deceased mare, when the donkeys arrived. The other horse is a then 27yo SB called Romeo who is still around.


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## SueC

abtiffi said:


> If anyone is _still_ following this, here is an update on Charlie! It's his third birthday today and I have had him for exactly one week


Those are nice pictures! He's a good type, isn't he! He's nice and square and broad in the chest and has good legs, and a sweet face! And he's only three, imagine how he will look at five when he's fully mature and you've muscled him up. I love his full, long mane and tail - very typical of the Albatross line (my fellow didn't inherit it but his sire had glorious hair). Do you guys have canola meal where you live? Two cups of that in the feed makes for a wonderful gloss on a horse, and quite a bit of spark! ;-)

He's just going to loooove all your care and attention!


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## boots

Lovely horses. 

I wonder how many STBs have been backed before the end of their racing career? When I worked on tracks, it was pretty common for us to hop on with only halters and a lead on the horses if we took them to grass for a relaxing break. Then there were silly exhibition races where some of us would get "volunteered" to have trotting or pacing races under saddle.

With few exceptions, the ones I saw were always easy going and tolerant of all the things we did to and with them.


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## SueC

For those into trivia / interesting facts: The Bavarian Warmblood carries a lot of European Trotter blood, and approved Trotter stallions / mares were allowed to be bred from and their offspring registered in the Bavarian Warmblood stud book. Halla, of course, was a European Trotter who was too slow for the track but became a famous, Olympics-winning international showjumper, and European Trotters were seen commonly on the amateur and higher-grade jumping circuits, so there has been a traditional appreciation for the breed and its saddle capabilities in Europe - not the same prejudice as one gets in "horsey" circles in Australia and presumably the US for riding a Standardbred.

Really, a lot of European Warmbloods heavily feature carriage horse lines (which were in turn ancestors to the Trotters), because the versatility to ride _and_ drive have been appreciated by people, both because of a sense of tradition (horse-drawn carriages were obviously the main mode of transport before the car) and because a lot of Europeans enjoy carriage driving. It is not uncommon for people at a riding school / agistment centre to vary riding their Warmbloods with putting them into carriages, in pairs or even fours! It's quite a sight. A lot of the sire performance tests various Warmblood associations require before allowing a stallion to breed foals for their stud books include dressage, jumping, carriage driving, and halter handling.

The Bavarian Warmblood Association, at least 30 years ago, was no exception, requiring passes in tests in all those categories, and if I remember correctly, a prospective stallion also had to be able to plough a field! This created a very versatile horse. Trotter, and TB, stallions who passed those tests could be bred to Warmblood mares. Some breeds had limits on how many Trotters and Thoroughbreds could be added into a Warmblood pedigree.

Horse history is fascinating. I love all sorts of horses, and a good horse is always a good horse, irrespective of breed or colour.


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## Strawberry4Me

Interesting Sue. But I am not surprised... 

When I was managing the Dressage stable, I would get the snooty attitudes from people and their warmbloods because I was the manager AND I rode a STANDARDBRED!! How DARE I?? But then, this woman was riding her Hannovarian in the arena with Sadie and I and was watching us go. When we were done she asks "is she a New Zealand Thoroughbred?" I said "sure is!" 

I had no idea why she thought that, but apparently the TBs over there have neck tattoos, and the way she moves makes her look New Zealand bred. So then I would just chuckle to myself every time someone would say something about my NZTB. Funny how it didn't matter how nicely she moved as a STB but, all of a sudden the same horse was much cooler because people thought she was a different breed. Dressage Queens at their finest :rofl:


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## Idrivetrotters

We rode a lot of our pacers at the track, trotters never seem to sour but pacers sometimes get a bit sour so we would throw a saddle on and hack around the barn areas. When we trained at the farm, we would ride through the trails and such around. I had a fantastic Open pacing gelding that we would ride regularly. 

Racing Under Saddle is new to the US but really popular overseas, trying to reach more people to give this sport a try.


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## rookie

I know one trainer who is fairly big in the east will start all his young horses under saddle. He gets them going under saddle before harnessing them. A lot of people laugh at the under saddle races and say it must be uncomfortable. I have found that at "racing speed" the pace and trot become really smooth to ride. I might be alone in that feeling.


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## SueC

Not alone, Rookie! Maybe it's just that I've ridden really smooth trotters, but I've not had an issue with uncomfortable trot or hard to sit trot, and the racing trot is quite a smooth ride, but at that speed I post it. It used to really upset Rikki-Tikki the huge TB in previous photos, when Sunsmart started doing a ground-covering trot which he had to literally gallop to keep up with. It's like he was thinking, "If he TROTS that fast, what will he be like at a gallop?"  If I cantered Sunsmart instead, Rikki-Tikki was much happier!

In France they have Saddle Trotting races as part of harness meetings.

Riding pacers - very smooth if on a leg pacer, a bit like a camel on speed on a body pacer (whole body swinging). There is no "bump" at a pace.


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## boots

rookie said:


> I know one trainer who is fairly big in the east will start all his young horses under saddle. He gets them going under saddle before harnessing them. A lot of people laugh at the under saddle races and say it must be uncomfortable. I have found that at "racing speed" the pace and trot become really smooth to ride. I might be alone in that feeling.


I found that to be true as well.


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## amigoboy

SueC said:


> For those into trivia / interesting facts: The Bavarian Warmblood carries a lot of European Trotter blood, and approved Trotter stallions / mares were allowed to be bred from and their offspring registered in the Bavarian Warmblood stud book. Halla, of course, was a European Trotter who was too slow for the track but became a famous, Olympics-winning international showjumper, and European Trotters were seen commonly on the amateur and higher-grade jumping circuits, so there has been a traditional appreciation for the breed and its saddle capabilities in Europe - not the same prejudice as one gets in "horsey" circles in Australia and presumably the US for riding a Standardbred.
> 
> Really, a lot of European Warmbloods heavily feature carriage horse lines (which were in turn ancestors to the Trotters), because the versatility to ride _and_ drive have been appreciated by people, both because of a sense of tradition (horse-drawn carriages were obviously the main mode of transport before the car) and because a lot of Europeans enjoy carriage driving. It is not uncommon for people at a riding school / agistment centre to vary riding their Warmbloods with putting them into carriages, in pairs or even fours! It's quite a sight. A lot of the sire performance tests various Warmblood associations require before allowing a stallion to breed foals for their stud books include dressage, jumping, carriage driving, and halter handling.
> 
> The Bavarian Warmblood Association, at least 30 years ago, was no exception, requiring passes in tests in all those categories, and if I remember correctly, a prospective stallion also had to be able to plough a field! This created a very versatile horse. Trotter, and TB, stallions who passed those tests could be bred to Warmblood mares. Some breeds had limits on how many Trotters and Thoroughbreds could be added into a Warmblood pedigree.
> 
> Horse history is fascinating. I love all sorts of horses, and a good horse is always a good horse, irrespective of breed or colour.


Quite right Suec.
It was common when starting a young horse to harness train before starting them too saddle. Came from the old military, horses were expected too be able to pull a cannon as well as carry the trooper.
The praktis is not used so much now, most people send their young stock to some wanna-bee self styled trainer to be riden, you never know what you are ging to get back.
Now there is the 3 year test were the the horse is shown in loose hopping, and the 3 gaits under saddle. No harness/driving test.
Sad, I think we have lost a lot of horse training knowlage, we no longer have the ALL AROUND SWEDISH HALFBLOOD that was so famous for being a good eventer or family member that everyone could enjoy for Sunday drives or any kind of saddle work.
It´s the Standard Breed that has taken over that now.
Nice that tough Old Timers from the track can still be loved and used.


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## SueC

What happened to the Swedish Halfblood, Amigo? They were frequently mentioned in the originally Swedish horse novels I read as a kid, along with Swedish Saddlebreds/Warmbloods, TBs, SBs, Gotland and Jutland Ponies, Fjord Horses, Welsh Ponies, and something referred to as a "Russian" renowned for becoming very shaggy in winter.


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## palominogal

I used to ride at a barn that only had OTSBs, they all made great lesson horses and the ones there were just big teddy bears! My current BO was not a fan when I discussed getting a second horse, and mentioned an OTSB. I ended up going to look at one - who was a doll - but ended up deciding against getting a second horse all together as I am going away this fall for school. 

Best of luck!


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