# APHA Mare Conformation Critique- Lots of Pictures



## SugarNSpice (Mar 26, 2012)

Here are some pictures of my 17 year old solid APHA mare, Ruby. Tell me what you see, your opinions, what she looks naturally built for, etc... Just curious to hear some objective opinions. Also, and this is hypothetical and out of curiousity, is she a mare you would consider breeding quality? As a side note, she did have a foal before I owned her at around age 5. She is extremely quiet, great personality, very accomplished at the local open/4-H level.

Her pedigree: Ruby Bay Paint


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## SugarNSpice (Mar 26, 2012)

Front View


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

She is fine boned, with a steep shoulder. Somethings looks off about her front pasterns, but judging by her feet it looks like it's caused by bad farrier work. She has a long weak back, with a long weak coupling, that looks like it is starting to sway. And she is slightly downhill. 

I would not consider her breeding quality, but I'm quite picky in that area as there's too many so-so horses. 

I would also have a better farrier attend to those feet ASAP.


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## ForeverSunRider (Jun 27, 2013)

She's very cute and has a beautiful color and a lovely head.

I'm not a conformation person at all but something seems odd to me how her butt/hip area ties in with the rest of her. Perhaps due to a long back? It almost looks like her rear is about 20x more muscled than the rest of her but again, I have no idea. Just giving my general opinion.


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## Tryst (Feb 8, 2012)

Attractive head . Very long back and weak coupling. She also is back at the knee and tied in at the knee. Bone is a bit on the light side. Her toes are way long. I wouldn't consider this mare for breeding - too many faults that could potentially be passed on to a foal.


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

Tryst said:


> Attractive head . Very long back and weak coupling. She also is back at the knee and tied in at the knee. Bone is a bit on the light side. Her toes are way long. I wouldn't consider this mare for breeding - too many faults that could potentially be passed on to a foal.


So that's what's up with her front legs, I'm still no good at leg conformation lol. I can see there's something up with them, but don't ask me to describe what! They looked off to me, especially her pasterns.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

At 17 if she's never had a foal, I wouldn't try her regardless of what her confo was. For me, due to her looooong back, I would not breed her. QH's and Paints have gotten a little too long in the back for long term soundness, and we need to be looking at breeding for shorter, sturdier backs. 

All that said, from a color and "She's cute" standpoint, if I were going to breed her, I'd look for a short back, well coupled, great shoulder, cremello or perlino to breed her to. Reason for that, she's solid, so unless you breed her to someone with spots and get spots, you just have another breed stock paint. If you go dilute, you get a buckskin or palomino and can register with the color registry.


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## SugarNSpice (Mar 26, 2012)

Thanks for all of the replies. I have switched farriers right around the time these pictures were taken last summer, so the feet are being addressed.

As I said above, she did have a foal before I got her, I'd really like to see some pictures of her foal to see how it turned out. 

I'm not really looking to breed her, just a hypothetical question!  With that said, just for fun, are there any studs that come to mind that would be a good match for her?


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

SugarNSpice said:


> Thanks for all of the replies. I have switched farriers right around the time these pictures were taken last summer, so the feet are being addressed.
> 
> As I said above, she did have a foal before I got her, I'd really like to see some pictures of her foal to see how it turned out.
> 
> I'm not really looking to breed her, just a hypothetical question!  With that said, just for fun, are there any studs that come to mind that would be a good match for her?


This is going to hurt your feelings, and I don't know how to say it without doing that. 

As a stallion owner, I would not accept this mare for breeding to my stallion, she has too many faults. And unfortunately, the stallion is always the one who gets the blame. My contract reads, "Stands to approved mares." and I do look to approve or not before I'll breed.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

This is a very nicely turned out mare but she is not breeding worthy. She is steep in the shoulder, and the point of shoulder is a bit low making the angle from point of shoulder to elbow too shallow. She is built downhill. 

Her over long coupling is followed by a point of croup set too far back and a croup that is too steep. Her stifle is placed too far to the rear and with the combination of all these things has created an over straight hind leg that compensates by being sickle hocked. 

Her front feet are over long toed putting a lot of pressure on a front leg that is tied in quite severely at the knee. Her neck looks to be over muscled on the bottom and lacks correct muscling along the top.. probably because she cannot truly collect, shift her weight to the rear and raise her back. 

Her knees and hocks a lacking in bone but are placed nice and low. She is adequate through her barrel and may be carrying just a little bit too much weight. However, she looks like that type of horse and she would look poor if she were slightly thin. 

She is probably a lovely horse to own and ride but she is not a horse I would breed. You can get a better quality foal with a more correct dam and sire for less than it would cost to breed this mare.


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## SugarNSpice (Mar 26, 2012)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> This is going to hurt your feelings, and I don't know how to say it without doing that.
> 
> As a stallion owner, I would not accept this mare for breeding to my stallion, she has too many faults. And unfortunately, the stallion is always the one who gets the blame. My contract reads, "Stands to approved mares." and I do look to approve or not before I'll breed.


 
No worries, I appreciate everyone's honesty. But if you read everything I said, I'm NOT going to be breeding her. I was just interested in seeing some examples of stallions that are strong in the areas she's lacking to get a visual. I just find it interesting and am always trying to further my knowledge, I thought this would be an "interactive" way to accomplish that.


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## SugarNSpice (Mar 26, 2012)

Elana said:


> This is a very nicely turned out mare but she is not breeding worthy. She is steep in the shoulder, and the point of shoulder is a bit low making the angle from point of shoulder to elbow too shallow. She is built downhill.
> 
> Her over long coupling is followed by a point of croup set too far back and a croup that is too steep. Her stifle is placed too far to the rear and with the combination of all these things has created an over straight hind leg that compensates by being sickle hocked.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your very detailed response! I always like reading your comments in other threads I've seen. She is a lovely horse to own, and for my purposes with her, she's been perfect.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

SugarNSpice said:


> But if you read everything I said, I'm NOT going to be breeding her.


I read it, just some people are very sensitive to statements like I made. 

There are really nicely put together stallions out there, but I'd be hesitant to recommend one without further info on your mare's pedigree, hereditary disease profile testing and more info on what you wanted to do with prospective the foal, should you decide to breed. There's a LOT more that goes into a breeding decision than just looking at the 2 animals you want to put together, or at least, there ought to be. 

When I look at a mare to buy for breeding to my stallion, I look at her disease panel testing results, conformation, her temperament, her skill set, her pedigree, her show record (if any) and the show records of her relatives. If she has foals on the ground, I like to see them too.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

at her age i would not breed her. She is not what I would consider breeding stock. She looks slightly toed out in front and the other comments seem correct. 
With all that said, no horse is perfect, and I think she is a cute little mare.


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