# Alternative to GSD



## ForeverSunRider (Jun 27, 2013)

Anyone know a breed of dog similar to the German Shepherd that is not known for aggression? 

I'm looking for one about the same size and build and color but minus the aggression.

I would go for a German Shepherd that was just not aggressive, but a certain person in my life (who I'm planning on keeping in my life) has made it very clear that there will be no German Shepherds allowed ever.


----------



## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

I have had 4 GSD's in my lifetime, not one of them was one bit aggressive.

In fact I wish my current GSD was a bit more aggressive, he is such a baby it is unbelievable ...lol...

GSD have a bad reputation for some reason :sad:

That being said, a Labrador or a Golden Retriever is about the same size and known for being the least aggressive of almost any breed. 

.


----------



## dkb811 (Oct 15, 2013)

My latest rescue is a German shepherd/lab mix. Thank you to whoever dumped him out here in the country. He's probably the best dog I've ever had, wonderful temperament!


----------



## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

My boyfriend has a GSD/border collie mix who is literally the sweetest, shyest baby of a dog you have ever met. She has literally barked twice in the 3 years he’s owned her. Extremely smart, very quiet, laid back and just great with everyone from delivery people/contractors to his 3 year old niece. 

I’ve never met a mean lab/border collie mix, either. I’ve met about 10 of them now and every one has just been a wonderful dog.


----------



## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

I have a 5 month old GSD and he's already the best dog I've ever had. 

Have you ever heard the phrase, "It's easier to ask for forgiveness instead of permission?" :wink:


----------



## dkb811 (Oct 15, 2013)

jenkat86 said:


> I have a 5 month old GSD and he's already the best dog I've ever had.
> 
> Have you ever heard the phrase, "It's easier to ask for forgiveness instead of permission?" :wink:


I would love to see your puppy! Could you post a picture?


----------



## Kay Armstrong (Jun 28, 2015)

So, it would be interesting to know why there is a firm law of "no GSD" ever! Was this person frightened by one at some time? Besides being a horse person, I'm a dog person too. I grew up around GSD's and have had Rottweilers as an adult. My belief is that it's all about how they are raised. There are a ton of dogs that need a forever home. How about just going to the local pound or rescue organization and finding a friendly one that you click with?


----------



## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

Kay- I think it's like pitbulls now. Before Pitbulls it was GSD's. Before them it was Rotties and Dobermans. They get a bad rep because of poor training practices and controversial stories. They are such good dogs.


----------



## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

Here you go dkb...









This was the day we brought him home at 8 weeks.









This was him a few nights ago begging for more peas out of the garden.


----------



## dkb811 (Oct 15, 2013)

jenkat86 said:


> Here you go dkb...
> 
> View attachment 667882
> 
> ...


 Beautiful! That face makes my heart pitter patter! LOL


----------



## myhorserules (Oct 21, 2014)

I got my GSD/Belgian Malinios when I was a teenager living at home. My mother has had a very real fear of large dog for longer than I've been alive. When she was pregnant with my sister, my aunt and uncles rottwiller chased her up onto a freezer, biting her in the process. 

All that being said, I convinced her that getting a big dog as a young puppy meant that we could shape it into the dog we wanted. We brought Koda home at 8 weeks, and watching her grow and learn has really helped my mom overcome her fear of large dogs. She still doesn't like being surrounded by them and rotties still frighten her a little, but she's able to walk down the street without living in fear of seeing them. And she loves Koda 😃

BTW, in 5 and a half years, Koda has NEVER even offered to bite anyone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## karliejaye (Nov 19, 2011)

Hmmm, I have never known an outright aggressive GSD, but that aside, you could tweek the rules. Belgian Malinois are similar to GSD but technically a different breed. Similarly Belgian Tervurin are similar but not the same. And if you like big black dogs, the Groenendael is great!

Malinois:










Tervuren:









Groenendael:


----------



## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Having a Belgian Malinois myself (one that had heart issues as a baby, therefore is very subdued) and knowing German Shepherds, I find them VERY different.

Unless you plan on training every single day, I feel as though another breed would be better. 

Why not rescue a shepherd mix if you really want a shepherd, or go for a different kind of dog?


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

GSD's were bred to guard sheep so they have a strong protective instinct towards their 'flock' - their owner and/or the family. Collies can be exactly the same but I've always found that if the dog (or any dog) is raised to accept anyone that the family or owner brings into the home/property then they are fine.
If you want a large dog that's generally known for having a good nature then why not look at Pointers? I've had short haired pointers and still have an ancient German wire haired x deerhound and they didn't have a nasty bone in their body


----------



## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

Can I ask what level of experience you have as a dog owner?

I don't recommend Malinois for first time owners or those that have only had small/ compliant dogs. They are high energy/ high drive dogs with a pretty strong bite instinct. They have greatly replaced GSD for law enforcement and military type jobs due to their drive and bite instinct. 

Same for GSD bred for work.
I will say that pet lines tend to be very mellow. This would be your best bet.
I will also caution you to stay away from the show lines. They have enormous hip issues due to the deformed back legs that have been bred into them.


Goldens and labs have a rep for being biters. As a vet assistant I've seen more people bitten by retrievers (and toy breeds) than I ever have GSD or even the bully breeds.

I'd see if he would be willing to compromise honestly. Maybe offer to take the dog to training classes and have him certified as a Canine Good Citizen. Maybe even enlist his help to pick out a puppy from a reputable breeder.

If however he won't go for a GSD no matter what I'd suggest a :

1. Groenedael : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groenendael_(Belgian_Shepherd_Dog)

They tend not to be quite as hyper as Malinios and can be good companions. They look sort of like a long haired black GSD.

2. Berger Blanc Suisse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berger_Blanc_Suisse

Essentially a GSD with a different name and only in white.

3. King Shepherd: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Shepherd

Again a GSD under a different name. These have had some outside blood added to create a 'bigger' GSD, but with it's own breed name.

4. Shilo Shepherd: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiloh_Shepherd_Dog

Same as #3, GSD under a different name with a touch of outside blood.

5. White Shepherd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Shepherd

Again a white GSD under a slightly different name.


----------



## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Shiloh shepherd? International Shiloh Shepherd Dog Club, Inc. [ISSDC]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

ForeverSunRider said:


> I'm looking for one about the same size and build and color but minus the aggression.


This aggression? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFUM48k2jmM

Unfortunately the only thing that is the same size AND color AND build is a GSD. There are other large breeds that might be great matches, but you're going to have to compromise on something. The only way to skip that is to talk your SO into a GSD (perhaps by another name, the Shiloh, White Shepherd, etc). The 'reputation' for aggression is a bias perpetuated by the media... each dog is an individual. A well bred and raised GSD is not of nervous (shy-sharp) or aggressive temperament, though due the popularity of the breed, there are too many poorly bred examples out there. 

In order to suggest a match that is not a GSD, it would be better if you told us what you want in a dog. Size? Temperament? Purpose? What sort of activities will the dog be doing? What experience do you have? Are there any other "requirements" other than "Not a German Shepherd"?


----------



## aubie (Aug 24, 2013)

I've had goldens and if get them to bite, you are severely mistreating them.


----------



## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

aubie said:


> I've had goldens and if get them to bite, you are severely mistreating them.


Tell that to the one who tried to attack me every time I went near his kennel when I worked boarding for a local vet. I never did anything to that dog except feed him, water him, and clean his kennel, but he'd literally try to take my hand off if I put it anywhere near his kennel. He didn't do that to any of the other techs, though. The only time he let me even remotely close was when it was time for him to go home. I would tell him "Ok, Sam! Time to go home! Daddy's here to get you!" and he'd be a perfect angel. He knew the difference, too. I could never fool him into letting me leash him to go outside by saying the same thing. It was only if it was really time for him to go home.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

aubie said:


> I've had goldens and if get them to bite, you are severely mistreating them.


Not IME- poor breeding/overbreeding in my area has resulted in several lines that have some severe fear issues and quite a few Goldens that I've met that would bite with little provocation if they felt they couldn't run away (ie, on leash, at the vets, and/or in a closed room). These dogs were not trustworthy even in good homes. I also tend to see a lot of goldens with cancer that runs in the lines. Both of those are the result of breeding for a buck rather than to improve the breed. Doesn't mean all Goldens are bad, just that you want to pay attention to WHO/Where you're buying one from.

The first dog that ever bit me was a yellow lab- his idiot young male owner had taught him to bite people on command. He thought it was funny.

The dog is more important than the breed when it comes to individual behavior.


----------



## Tihannah (Apr 7, 2015)

My GSD Achilles. Most level-headed, intelligent, and loyal dog I've ever owned. Good dogs can be found from good breeders. :wink:


----------



## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

I have three dogs.
An Irish Setter ***** who came to us at 6 months from a rescue, now 5.
She is a nervous type, very wonky, and very head strong. She isn't trusted to run off leash in open areas because she doesn't come back. Despite being nervous, she is great around babies and children, puppies too. She will run away and back down from other dogs.

English Setter. Also a rescue dog from France. Bred and trained to hunt, full papers (and I snipped him!) and wonderful. His recall is superb and he will go to anyone who will shower him with attention. He doesn't, however, play with other dogs or have patience. He is a grumpy old man. He will snap at other dogs to leave him alone, and walk away when he needs a nap.

Jack Russell Chiuhaha mix. Got her at 5 months, now ten months.
This RAT is just above ankle height. My mother spoils her like a child. She believes she is human. She growls and barks at anyone who isn't family. If she were bigger, we would have SERIOUS issues.

My point in the above is that it isn't the breed, it's the background and the training. GSDs are beautiful dogs. I prefer setters, however GSD definitely come in to my top ten.

Introduction page to the liver long coat German Shepherd Dog (Galaxy)

And I present to you... the liver GSD. They remind me of a box of chocolates.


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I agree with Horseychick that a Malinois is not the easiest of breeds! They need work and are generally as hard as nails and need plenty of work and obedience. 

People I know have a Malinois X and love her, however they bought a pure bred and that was a different matter. Far to much for them.


----------



## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

I recently adopted a pit/border collie mix from a shelter. I didn't pick him b/c of his breed, more because he needed a home and he "got me" when I picked him up. 

I have no previous experience with pits, but I have had kelpies w more aggression in their _smallest toe_ than this guy. So much for that breed specific "aggression boogie man". 

I think it is the pick of the draw and nurture. If I had no specific need (e.g., livestock) I would just pick a non-German Shepard dog in that size range that needs a home.


----------



## ForeverSunRider (Jun 27, 2013)

Horseychick87 said:


> Can I ask what level of experience you have as a dog owner?


I wouldn't call myself SUPER experienced but I wouldn't call myself inexperienced.

I grew up with a border collie/husky mix (45 lbs). She was a great dog - had a bit of an aggressive streak, but she was very loyal. I could walk her off leash, and was able to have complete control over her when needed. I had her for 16 years.

I currently have an Australian Shepherd (65 lbs). He also has a bit of an aggressive streak but is an awesome dog. I competed quite successfully with him in shows. I socialized him and he is good with other dogs, can walk off leash, knows basic commands (sit, stay, lay, come, roll over, fetch, heel, etc.) - all of which I taught him.

Both dogs were/are very loyal to our family and very protective. They were friendly toward visitors if we were with them. If a person entered our yard while we were inside and they were outside, that person would have a very tough time. But the protectiveness is a trait I am attracted to in a dog.

I'm used to dogs that have assertive personalities and who need mental and physical challenges. 

I would, of course, enter the dog in obedience classes as a young dog and I would socialize it properly. 

Interestingly, of the 100s of dogs I've interacted with, the only breed to ever behave aggressively or bite me has been the Labrador - the breed my SO wants to have


----------



## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

When I was teching, it seemed like daschunds and schnauzers were the biters. Most GSD I've been around have been protective, but mellow. They just need a lot of socialization and are scarier cause the are bigger.
I have a couple Malinois. They aren't really good dogs for a first time dog owner. They have a lot of prey drive, and you have to really be able to direct that positively.


----------



## ForeverSunRider (Jun 27, 2013)

Also, I work closely with the K9 unit at my internship. They have a team of 4 German Shepherds.


----------



## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

How about a Golden Retriever? Typically known for being very mellow.

I agree with the person in your life... about German Shepherds, we all have our preferences I guess, and while handling and training are a large part of it all, so is how they are bred, and what they are bred to do. I am not a fan of GSD's.


----------



## ForeverSunRider (Jun 27, 2013)

I DO like Goldens. They'd be my second choice. I think I may go that route. My SO wants a lab but I don't. I told him that if we got a golden then we could shave it in the summer (I've sen them do that to keep it cool) and then it'd look like a lab  

But I DO love the coloring and look of the GSD. I find them beautiful and a part of me will always want one. Maybe down the road when we have time for two dogs....our first dog can help keep the GSD in line and teach it to be an upstanding canine citizen.


----------



## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

Why do you want a shepherd?

My neighbor and I both have shepherds. My neighbor is a police officer and his is pure bred (not a police dog), mine is a pound puppy, but clearly shepherd. Both of our dogs are complete whimps. They are not protective at all and both would probably let us get robbed...Both our dogs are timid. My dog is terrified of the horses, but has fear aggression towards other dogs.

In fact someone was telling me timidness is now a real problem with shepherds bred in the U.S. The police end up paying thousands to import shepherds from overseas to try and avoid some health problems associated with U.S. breeding.

What I will say about shepherds... they have a strong bite instinct, which has been bred into them. As a puppy my dog would draw blood, just play biting you. Teaching her bite inhibition was 10x harder than with the other puppies we have had. As a seven pound puppy she was drawing blood, not so fun when she was forty pounds. I don't think I petted her for the entire first year without a pacifier in her mouth! For that matter I avoided touching her much at all. 

She is not a lap dog, she is a working dog. This means we play tug, ball, or frisbee, we hike, or we jog. She does not like being petted. She does not look into your eyes and say pet me, I love you... Either she is running non stop or sleeping. 

At least she no longer play bites, but she still will run up to say hi, and catch you with her teeth. This is called sharking. 

Obedience training... She was the top of her class, except she has so much dog aggression, she has stayed in training on a weekly basis since we brought her home. I think she has received 5x as much training as my lab. My lab was fine after 6 weeks of basic obedience and he was good to go. 

I sent my mom this article after we brought puppy home. At that point we thought she was Belgium shepherd... I can certainly see why they train them to attack and guard from early puppy hood. 

https://bayareadogtrainer.wordpress...ican-public-belgian-malinois-look-dont-touch/

If you want a huggable dog who likes petting, get a lab or a golden.

My pup is just getting to the point where you can pet her, when she is sleeping...:icon_rolleyes: 

Maybe if a purebred is out of the question, get a shepherd mix.


----------



## Samstead (Dec 13, 2011)

I have never in my 21 years of life met a German Shepard to be the least bit aggressive. I've seen kids practically climb on one while he just sat there like "this is fine.... that was my ear....oh but you're so cute how could I be mad?"


----------



## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Samstead said:


> I have never in my 21 years of life met a German Shepard to be the least bit aggressive. I've seen kids practically climb on one while he just sat there like "this is fine.... that was my ear....oh but you're so cute how could I be mad?"


It all comes down to training and socialization. I was nearly attacked by one when I was around 4 or 5 years old. It's the earliest memory I have and I even remember his name: Buster


----------



## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

It really is how you train them.
Back in the day, GSDs were the popular breed, and have a lot of health and behavior issues due to irresponsible and over breeding But, if you go through a responsible breeder who breeds for health and temperament then you shouldn't have problems.
European lines do, in both Mals and GSDs, seem to have less health issues and stick closer to the original breed standards than US lines.


----------



## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

ForeverSunRider said:


> I wouldn't call myself SUPER experienced but I wouldn't call myself inexperienced.
> 
> I grew up with a border collie/husky mix (45 lbs). She was a great dog - had a bit of an aggressive streak, but she was very loyal. I could walk her off leash, and was able to have complete control over her when needed. I had her for 16 years.
> 
> ...



Good, sounds like you could handle a Malinois if you did get one, they take so much focus...continually, LOL.

I'm a fan of Schutzhund trials, so I know of outlets for the energy, but if your guy is leery of 'aggression' then these trials would probably give him a small heart attack. But really it's all controlled.

I'm personally into Tamaskan dogs, Czechoslovakian Vlcaks, and Caucasian Ovcharkas , and working line GSD and Dobermans. So I know high drive breeds.

I've owned everything from labs to Chihuahuas, I always got the most aggression out of the lab, but he was protective and had been taught bite control. Labs are a very mouth breed, just like Goldens. They like to bite and chew...everything. It's who they are as retrievers.

I wish you the best of luck in your search.


----------



## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

Skyseternalangel said:


> It all comes down to training and socialization. I was nearly attacked by one when I was around 4 or 5 years old. It's the earliest memory I have and I even remember his name: Buster


I think training and socializing is a huge factor, but the individual dog's make-up will influence its level of aggression given identical circumstances. My dearest friend in the world, a kelpie, would become _extremely_ aggressive when he perceived a threat. I couldn't change the trait, I had to work with and around it - and sometimes forgive it. None of my later kelpies were nearly as aggressive, although they received the same training, and far less socialization.

How well founded someone's dog breed prejudice is, w so many choices I think the OP is well advised to find a another "do able" breed.


----------



## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

My best friend's grandma just had to PTS her 13yo German-bred GSD. He was an...interesting...dog. I never felt quite comfortable around him and I've owned and worked around dogs my whole life. Just something about his intensity was unsettling. I've worked with other GSDs (all American-bred) and never encountered his level of intensity. He was never aggressive, even when I sat in "his" spot on the couch, but just something about his demeanor made me uncomfortable.

OP, are you stuck on getting a purebred or would a mutt/pound puppy/rescue be something you'd consider? I got my older dog from the pound in Tucson when he was 10-months-old and he's one of the best dogs I have EVER had. He's protective, but not to the point of being aggressive. Best we can figure, he's probably an aussie/st Bernard mix. My younger dog is sweet, but very timid, but she has a ridiculous prey drive and copious amounts of energy. She's a Catahoula/aussie/border collie mix.


----------



## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

It is not all how they were raised, it is also what they were bred for, and the luck of the draw. Dogs are born with personalities. 

There are a lot of dogs that size. You will have to narrow it down. Herding breed? Hunting breed? Sight hound? What is it you like about GSDs? The shedding? (just kidding). 

If you like the easily-trained aspect, look into English Shepherds, the retrievers (golden, labrador, flatcoat; avoid the chesapeake which is a guardian), Aussies (the show lines will be less apt to have guardian instincts, and are usually bigger & heavier than the working lines). 

If you don't care whether your dog is loyal or smart, just find a breed or mix you like the look of.


----------



## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

Here are two of the sweetest GSD's I have ever owned, both are over 95lbs. Everyone I have owned were big babies, I guess it is how they were raised.

Just look at that kind face of Diesel my current GSD

The other pic is of Luke, he was rescuing me when I was swimming out in the ocean, he could not handle seeing me out in deep water, so he swam out and grabbed my arm and led me back onto the shore, he knew exactly how much pressure he could use on my arm to pull me in without even leaving a scratch on me.


----------



## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

jenkat86 said:


> Here you go dkb...
> 
> View attachment 667882
> 
> ...


well if you have to get rid of him, send him my way. I love GSD's


----------



## Bombproof (May 20, 2015)

Missy May said:


> I recently adopted a pit/border collie mix from a shelter. I didn't pick him b/c of his breed, more because he needed a home and he "got me" when I picked him up.
> 
> I have no previous experience with pits, but I have had kelpies w more aggression in their _smallest toe_ than this guy. So much for that breed specific "aggression boogie man".
> 
> I think it is the pick of the draw and nurture. If I had no specific need (e.g., livestock) I would just pick a non-German Shepard dog in that size range that needs a home.


The reputation of the Pitbull as a human-aggressive dog is simply incorrect. That reputation stems from the fact that somewhere around 1990, the Pit became the "must-have" [email protected]$$ dog for every would-be gangbanger and dirtbag in America. I suspect it was due to their reputation as fighting dogs and because they are tremendously strong. So, of course, these low-lifes began to teach their dogs to be vicious. Dogs want nothing more than to please their humans, so if you want them to be vcious, they will be. 

But think about it for a moment...If Pitbulls were innately aggressive toward humans, you wouldn't be able to get into the ring and pull them apart. You wouldn't be able to stitch up their wounds or give them shots. The old-time breeders of fighting dogs weeded out the ones which were aggressive toward humans. Michael Vick had 53 Pitbulls when his place was raided and IIRC only two of them could not be rehabbed to another purpose. Some of them even became rescue and therapy dogs. True, Pitbulls are often aggressive toward other dogs, but they were bred for that. Even so, you can usually teach them to get along with other dogs.

All of which is a long way of saying that similarly GSDs, despite their reputation for ferocity, are usually quite human-friendly. I wouldn't hesitate to take a GSD. They are used in military and police work because they are big, intelligent, and easy to train, not because they are inherently aggressive. Even military working dogs usually don't display much aggression until the situation for which they were trained presents itself.

I'm sorry your SO is dead-set against a GSD. Is there any chance he could be convinced to change his mind by exposing him to some of them?


----------



## Bombproof (May 20, 2015)

Avna said:


> It is not all how they were raised, it is also what they were bred for, and the luck of the draw. Dogs are born with personalities.


This is certainly true. Like humans, some dogs are just mean or just nuts or otherwise just bad dogs. However, you can make some generalizations and in a breed like the GSD which is well known, you can say with a fairly high degree of certainty that with proper socialization and training they will be sweet and loyal.


----------



## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Make sure you get the herding line and not the Schutzhund line. Then as long as you socialize them, they are great. I had one, my parents have one, my brother has two and they are all wonderful dogs, especially with children. They all get along with the cats, my brother has chickens and they are fine with them. They get along with the horses.. Just plain good dogs. My collie, however, is the most gentle dog I have ever met, so if you wanted to try a different breed. I love a collie.


----------

