# Retained foal contract



## Bugaboo (Apr 21, 2012)

Okay, so I'm looking at an APHA mare that's cute and has an awesome set of papers that I am having a hard time passing up. Owner is selling her as a 2-n-1 for 3500$ or with owner retaining foal once born for 1500$.

While the foal, I think, would be awesome, I'm not in the market for 3500$. Owner was okay with doing a payment plan on her and allowing her to be moved (owner holds papers until paid) and then picking up the foal. I was really hoping the owner would want to keep mare until she foals (Around May 21st, so pretty late), but he wants to make room. This mare is only just halter broke recently and has rudimentary lunging skills now (due to current owner, whose had her since October 2017) and still needs work with things like picking and holding her feet up for farrier and is hard to catch in a large field (mare is 7 years old). I feel like 1500$ is a bit much, because on top of that, I'll have to be feeding her appropriately for the foal to be born healthy, as well as foal the mare out myself....

So I'm wanting advice from people who've dealt with retained foal type sales, as in you've either bought a mare and sent the foal back or sold a mare and got the foal back. What was included in your contract? Did the person who was getting the foal back contribute to feeding the mare carrying THEIR foal or was that spurned onto the buyer, who not only has to BUY the mare, but then feed (indirectly) a foal that is not their own, for what could be considered, a loss? What about if there is a death, injury, or defect to the mare and/or foal? 

On another note....Owner and I are 10 hours distance from each other...

Any and all advice, please, I would love to hear!


----------



## k9kenai (Jul 1, 2017)

I don't have much advice for you...but a few things stand out as fishy to me. For one thing, why is the current owner wanting a foal back when he is trying to make room? Is he the one who bred her or was she pregnant when he got her? Who is the stud? What value does the foal have? I would think these are all relevant questions to ask him.

I have only ever seen broodmares (and stallions) sold with the conditions of "one (or more, sometimes) foal back", not mares that are currently pregnant and sold and sent to the new owner's property prior to the birth of the foal. I would think it very unfair towards a seller if they are not only shouldering all the costs and time of caring for a pregnant mare, but any money, time, and effort they've put into the mare could go down the drain should something happen to the mare before, during, or directly after the birth of the foal as a result of the pregnancy. I have seen the occasional sale where a mare would be purchased prior to giving birth but not be removed from the property until after the foal has been weaned, but again this brings up the problems of money/time/effort and any number of things that could happen to the mare in the mean time before she arrives on your property (unless it is a boarding situation).

Again, I've never done something of this sort nor have I known anyone who has, but I personally would pass. Or wait and see if the mare is still up for sale after the foal is weaned.


----------



## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

But wait, you also have to keep the mare and foal together for a weaning period of about 6 months. So you're going to feed and care for mare and foal? Who looks after all the vet bills? None of this makes sense to me, but I've never bought a pregnant mare... I'd most definitely pass unless you want to keep that foal.


----------



## Bugaboo (Apr 21, 2012)

It's definitely, not strange or unusual, I think to allow a mare to go and have the foal come back...I've seen people do it, but for me, I would rather have him keep her until she foals, make payments until foal is weaned and then take the mare. 

K9kenai, it's not necessarily that he WANTS the foal back, but I don't really care to have the foal and in his sale ad, he offered her as a sale of mare with return of foal, a 2-n-1, or 3-n-1 (mare, foal, and free breeding to his personal stud). The stud the mare is bred to is a very nice looking blue roan tobiano stallion (APHA) with a pretty nice pedigree and from a pretty well known/large paint breeding farm. The owner bought the mare bred (he's only had her for four months) and had plans for her I suppose, but other things changed. Also, when I meant "make room", he said make room for other expecting mares that he is actually keeping for his breeding program. Obviously, with foal returned, he would sell the foal himself, which is fine with me. 

I think that injury to the foal or mare is part of the contract that needs to be discussed, as it can happen even if she is owned by the same person through the mare's whole pregnancy and birth. His idea is that I would take the mare, make payments through pregnancy and weaning and when he makes a trip to Iowa, he would pick the foal up on his way back down at 4 month old, when it's weaned.


----------



## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

I have done the reverse; sold a foal who was only 6 weeks old and too young to wean. 

Because I knew the buyers well, I let them take mare and foal to their property. The buyer was willing to feed my mare while waiting for the filly to grow up a bit more. They really enjoyed having her around as she had excellent ground manners. I took my mare back when the filly was 6 months old. 

That same mare was leased out on a breeding contract. The stud owner kept the first foal (had to live for 10 days per contract) and my mare was sent back to me bred a second time. It was the second foal I sold for quite a good profit and the breeding cost me nothing.


----------



## Bugaboo (Apr 21, 2012)

I honestly don't mind taking the mare and taking care of her and foaling her, with a contract obviously, to protect myself...but I would rather not pay that full asking price for what the mare is (which I don't mind), but I don't have the extra money if the seller is going to set me with the full price as well as the care/vet fees for what the foal is going to be. I'd have to feed her for the next 7 months until the current owner came buy to pick up the foal, and I think that is too much burden on the buyer to make it worth it. Also, the fact that she is going to be foaling so late in the year, I wouldn't get to breed her until 2019, so that's another year of lost profit by feeding an empty mare for a whole other year. The only positive is I'll be covering with my own young stallion, so I won't have the stud fee to consider.

I wouldn't mind feeding/caring for foal if he'd drop his price on her. Ultimately, I'd wish he'd keep her until she weaned, but that is most likely not going to be an option. I really do like/want the mare and she's been on my mind all day for the past couple days, but I just can't justify myself to buy a pregnant mare for 3500$ in the middle of winter, thus returning the foal.


----------



## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

Four months seems too young to me to wean, especially for an abrupt weaning, for the physical and mental health of the foal and the mare. Is that a normal age?


----------



## Bugaboo (Apr 21, 2012)

SteadyOn said:


> Four months seems too young to me to wean, especially for an abrupt weaning, for the physical and mental health of the foal and the mare. Is that a normal age?


Most of the time I see people typically start to wean at four months, but people will wean as they see fit. Usually people in more business type setting, who sell and have an agenda to follow, will wean around 4-5 months, some will wean 6-8 months.

I would like to see it weaned a little later, but if I take the mare, I'd like to have the foal off my property as early as it's able, not to sound cruel. The less amount of time at my place, the less chance of any accidents happening and such to the foal.


----------



## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Are you wanting the mare for a brood mare? Because her lack of training plus the whole foal issue would cause me to pass on her. There are other mares without all those strange conditions. 

I would not be responsible for someone else's foal. 

In the case of my mare that was sent out on a free breeding contract, the stud owner had to care for my mare 100% while she was over there waiting to foal. The mare was bred back on her foal heat. So I had a long time with no expenses.


----------



## Bugaboo (Apr 21, 2012)

Yes, I'm wanting mare for a broodmare. I can train if I wanted, but I'm looking to get out of breaking horses and more into breeding. She is sound, but her not being broke to ride is fine with me, I have other riding horses. The only thing is it's gonna be hard for me to find another mare with papers like hers, and her color is a good bonus for me. She's an own daughter of a paint stallion that is now deceased and this stallion was Highest Open Performance Point earner of all time in APHA history, until passed by one other stallion after his death. Dam side is pretty strong as well and it's hard to pass her up.


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

He put a $2000 value on the foal and dropped the total so you pay $1500 for her. That sounds fair. If she is what you suspect and is bred really nicely then it sounds like she could be worth more not less as a broodmare. Talk to the owner about vet responsibilities and getting your money back if she dies during foaling. Feeding to me is a non issue. If he won't be reasonable about vet care directly related to to the pregnancy and giving you your money back if you lose her during the process then walk away. I've bought several this way and some I paid the difference to the full price and kept baby, others I sent baby back after weaning. I always had a clause about vet care and right to decide after baby was on the ground with the mare only portion paid prior and baby portion paid after the fact (within a reasonable time frame).

ETA cute wouldn't cut it no matter the breeding on the papers. She would have to be conformationally correct, have a great mind, proven broodie to go along with those papers as well as be athletic and built for what I had in mind use wise.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Walk away. The owner is trying to create the fear of loss, missed opportunities, in you as a sales tactic. Tell him you'll be interested when the foal is weaned, IF she hasn't sold by then. $1500 for an untrained, barely halter broke mare is ridiculous, you should be able to buy her for less than half that. He's done nothing with her, will do nothing with her and you're going to have to do everything. This is a complete CRAP deal.


----------



## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

I would walk away. Unless this mare has a show record what her sire did is of very little value - Yes it looks good on papers but show horse preferences change pretty quickly. There must have been something about this mare that made her undesirable to show when she was younger - and that is how she became a broodmare. At 7yrs old does she have any foals on the ground already? What are they doing in the show pen?

What is the market for a broodmare only? Did you contact the breeder that sold her? Why did they sell her?


----------



## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

*Pass*

Honestly there are so many ways that this could go and get VERY messy, that I would pass this one up and keep looking(especially if you're not happy with the price of the mare to begin with, and she isn't even trained to do anything). There are lots of horses on the market for that price range that are of better quality and likely training.


----------



## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

It sounds like you really want this mare for your own reasons. Is she worth 1500. to you if she wasn't in foal? If yes, then go for it. Just make sure everything is in writing on how things will go. If she dies from complications from pregnancy/birth will you get your money back? Is the seller going to be responsible for all vet bills related to pregnancy, birth, and the raising of this foal until weaning? I would ask for a copy of her registration to hold until she is paid for and you get the real thing signed over to you. 

I think that if you really want her then you guys can work it out so no one gets a bad end of the stick. Just put it all in writing so there is no misunderstandings or anyone goes back on their word. Maybe see if he will come off of her price a little because you will be feeding for two.


----------

