# Weight distribution across the stirrup bar



## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

Hi folks, I'm looking for some input on this. I've been gradually retraining my leg position over the last two years that I've been back to riding. After 15 years off, I had a very stiff, knees-off toes-out position, and I've had to gradually tweak things to get a more correct and softer and stronger position. However, now that I've mostly "fixed" things, I want to make sure I proceed correctly so that I don't accidentally start hardwiring in the wrong habits.

How do you distribute the weight across the ball of your foot on the stirrup iron? Evenly across? More to the outside? More to the inside? (And yes, I know the weight is dropped into the heel -- I'm talking about just where the ball of the foot and the iron meet.)

In retraining my leg, I found it initially necessary for me to weight the outside of my foot to prevent my toes from popping out sideways and causing me to ride off the back of my leg in a stiff and insecure position. This worked for a while, but definitely didn't translate to two-point work as it caused me to roll my ankle to the outside and was painful and unsustainable. So I'm working on fixing my fix, if that makes sense, as the next part of my overhaul.

I've done some reading on this, and there are a lot of different opinions. What I've been finding:

For seated work, distribute the weight evenly across the iron.
For two-point, weight more to the inside of the iron and allow the toes to turn out a bit more (though not so far that the calf isn't engaged or that he knee is pulled off the saddle).

I'm still retraining myself not to weight the outside heavily, so the idea of weighting the inside feels incredibly wrong to me, though I know all changes feel wrong at the beginning!

I'll be going over this with my coach, but we are having the most hideously rainy and stormy summer here, and I'm lucky if I get to ride even once a week right now, and lessons have been very sporadic because they keep getting rained out. :frown_color:


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

If I tried to have my toes pointed straight ahead, I would need virtually all my weight on the outside because the bottom of my foot would not be level. The US Cavalry taught the toes should be 10-45 degrees out, depending on the human & horse's build. George Morris, IIRC, said the same, although he prefers something straighter ahead (closer to 10 degrees, but he also says it can go out as much as 45 degrees depending on how the horse and rider are built). VS Littauer recommended 30 degrees out as a starting point. Since all of those people believe in a secure position, and none of them want the knee forced off the horse, I suspect there is nothing improper about having the toes point off the horse anywhere from 10-30 degrees.

As a self-taught rider (albeit one who reads), I believe the LEG positions the toe. If you have uneven weight across the bars, that means your feet are not level with the stirrup and that is most likely because you are twisting the feet at the ankle to get the toes artificially pointed forward - resulting in uneven weight in the stirrups which would be detrimental to balanced riding.

Some say it helps to reach under and pull the thigh muscle around. Doesn't help me, but it seems to help other people.

You might want to read "How Your Horse Wants You to Ride" by Gincy Bucklin, "Common Sense Horsemanship" by VS Littauer or "Riding and Schooling Horses" by Harry Chamberlin. Let your thigh and knee determine your toe. I'm writing from a trail rider/forward seat perspective, and mostly ride western now. Never competed or cared to, so take my advice with a big cup of FWIW.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

The idea of having feet completely parallel somehow got mistaken as being ideal and it really is not.
I just ride with my legs under me, and long habit has me just naturally riding with heels down, no conscious effort
I have even weight across my stirrups, but that changes somewhat, depending on what I am doing, as in a fast rollback


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Here is ahunt seat equitation, World show win-feet are not parallel


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

Thanks guys! I'm not actually trying to get my feet parallel. The problem was, initially, that my toes were almost 90 degrees out sideways because I was SO tight and weak, and I could only seem to ride that way unless I really contorted myself. Took a while and some over-correction to get to a better place where I can now try to fine-tune.

My leg is now comfortable, strong, and stable, and at a much more natural angle. From this point on I'm wanting to ensure that I weight the ball of my foot correctly, so I'm developing the right habits. I can now keep the weight evenly across the irons now without anything wacky happening, but I was wanting to know if that's how they *should* be, and also if it's different for two-point. Or any other input.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

You didn't mention in your beginning post what sort of riding you are doing. It often seems people just assume that readers will know, or that everyone rides the same discipline.
But, I gathered from your use of the word "two point' that you are riding hunt seat, and maybe jumping, too.

I do not ride that way, so what I know might not pertain to what you are seeking.

when I started riding in dressage, the teacher had me think more of weighting the outside three toes. It can help to teach a person how to lengthen the leg from the hip downward, down the outside of the leg, allowing your WHOLE leg to drop downward. But, I don't know if that is at all helpful for a jumper rider.

I figure, if any one part of the sole of your foot hurts, you may be weighting it too heavily.

the angle your feet stick out will definitely be affected by the shape of the hrose's barrel. you want to have as much of your leg in contact with the horse from your hip to mid calf, so if turning your foot outward a bit helps, then do it.


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

We sometimes need to retrain ourselves to correct bad habits. For example, I used to walk with more weight on the outside of my feet which was demonstrated by how the soles of my shoes wore. We may need to correct similar habits when riding. Generally, distributing the weight evenly across the area of the stirrup iron would produce the most stable contact.

Putting too much emphasis on this may, however, invite other problems. Consider things as a whole, emphasizing particular aspects only when necessary and only to the extent necessary. Basically, try to relax and see if gravity doesn’t help you assume a good stable position.


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## DanteDressageNerd (Mar 12, 2015)

I think you're putting a little too much thought into this. TXHorseman offered some really good advice with "Putting too much emphasis on this may, however, invite other problems. Consider things as a whole, emphasizing particular aspects only when necessary and only to the extent necessary. Basically, try to relax and see if gravity doesn’t help you assume a good stable position." Don't force it, don't fixate on small things. Focus on riding and accept mistakes are okay. Improve what you can but don't obsess, it does more harm than good. Micromanaging doesn't work. Putting a body part in a strategic location is not a cure all (though I've known trainers who try to claim if a rider just puts a body part here or there it makes up for skill, nope).

When I put weight in my stirrups, I think of it as taking weight off the horse's back, I want my toes to face more so forward. They don't have to be totally forward but not facing out to the extent of the hunter under saddle riders. That would get you into a lot of trouble on a well trained dressage horse or a very sensitive horse. Dressage riders generally have their toe facing more so forward because we're very conscious about how precise our aids need to be, especially as we progress into the upper levels where there is more lateral work and execution needs to take place in a shorter and shorter window with more emphasis on precision. You can't be "approximate" or you'll get into trouble. That said it's very important to learn how to have a quiet, soft, neutral leg (a leg that is aware of how to do nothing, not actively asking for something conscious or unconscious) before worrying about toes. Being active vs passive.

One of my favorite riders, Carl Hester





Another of my favorite Hubertus Schmidt





But honestly being able to have a soft, relaxed leg is step one. Stretch your hip flexors, planks, core stability, etc will help. There is an art to being able to be relaxed but mindful and effective. 

When I ride in two point, I just put my weight down my stirrups and do not grip in my leg, just allow my leg to hang down as I keep myself up in balance and not leaning forward (tilts saddle pressure to the wither when too forward). When I turn I have my belly button face the direction I am going, positioning the horse's neck between my legs using my position. A closed thigh restricts motion. I just allow my leg to hang and stay inactive because if I'm in two point my horse has to be self going.

The stirrup should be even across, there shouldn't be more weight in the outside or inside part of the stirrup. If you put more weight down one stirrup or the other it is to turn or guide a horse. When I leg yield or half pass. I'll step down into the direction of travel, maintain bend with outside leg back on and off. If I need more bend or more of a reaction then I will turn my toe out to emphasize my expectation and get bend. I do this more so on green or young horses because aids are generally exaggerated on them, so they understand clearly.

An exercise that helps with tight legs and hips is holding your legs in walk as far off the saddle as you physically can, the whole leg and lift it for as long and as far off the saddle as you can, then allow it to relax and repeat 3 times. Another is taking your feet out of the stirrups and just letting them hang and stretching in general is good. Two point can be really good for training a good basic leg.

Even when I evented I did not like the toes out position. I didn't ride like that. I was an eventer and most of the european riders over fences do not point their toes out like the hunter jumpers are taught to do. Watch William Fox Pitt, Mary King, Ingrid Klimke or Michael Jung.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

interesting how adhesive looking Hester's leg is, while Schmidt has a visually busy looking leg.


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## DanteDressageNerd (Mar 12, 2015)

They're different style riders on very different horses. Hubertus has a VERY long leg and Imperio is VERY bouncy/hot. Nip Tuck is very hot as well but different. They're different riders with different conformation and styles but very accomplished and skillful.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I feel it is extremely important for the longevity of the rider to consider how your leg sits naturally on the horse. You shouldn't be trying to twist your joints in any particular direction, but rather allow or cause the toe and knee point the same direction. If your hip angle changes over time or on differently shaped horses, this can change also. 
If you have a very flat thigh and long leg like some of the riders shown, your toe can point farther forward anatomically. But if you have a muscular, round thigh that does not sit flat against the horse and tight hip abductors, trying to twist at the joints will cause pain and joint damage to the rider.
I've heard of some male instructors trying to force female riders to get the same leg position they do, but it is difficult and often harmful to try due to different pelvic and thigh anatomy.

This is less critical if you are riding with a very long leg without weight in the stirrups. But if you are galloping, jumping or riding long hours in the saddle you must follow ergonomic practices that won't injure your body unless you want to end up with a short riding career. 

The shape of the horse's barrel and where your leg drops to will affect how your weight goes along the stirrup pad. You might have to weight the stirrup farther in or out to compensate for this, or even add a wedge stirrup pad if your foot ends up everted or inverted on a particular horse.


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