# Conformation and cantering



## EmmaWay24 (Aug 5, 2012)

I have posted some conformation pics of my boy on here a while back and got some general comments that he would be a good all around horse. My question now has to do specifically with his canter. 

Background: Leo is a six year old quarter horse he has been under saddle for about 14 months and I have been working him as a hunter jumper for 9 months. I think something is really off with his canter. He hasn't made much improvement in the canter, seems stiff to me behind and has a hard time doing circles smaller than 20 meters. He does not drag his toes behind, he does not ever appear lame at trot or walk. He is happy and willing to work. He has no issues backing up. He picks both leads up easily and can do walk canter transitions (better to the right). I have begun working him over poles in the canter (4-5 in a row). He struggled with this at first but has improved greatly and can clean navigate them about 60% of the time now.

Question: Am I being paranoid? Does anyone see anything off like I do? Any experience with a horse cantering like this? Was it conformation, natural gait, or a pain issue? Can a horse improve a canter like this (I.e. Get more flexion behind). Any ideas how to do improve it? Most important: my goal for this horse is to jump a two foot course with lead changes - does anyone think he will be unable to accomplish this or possibly hurt by working toward this goal?

Disclaimer:
He is barefoot, trimmed every five weeks. He was fitted for his saddle, had his teeth done in spring and was vet checked a few months back - vet said it could be a minor pain issue but not very concerned, put him on adequan, which seemed to help lateral work at trot but had no effect on the canter. I ride weekly with a great trainer who agrees he is weird but isn't convinced it's to the point of being painful or causing problems. She describes his canter saying he uses his hip like a pendulum, swinging his inside back leg forward without bending the hock.

Here is a short video of his canter left and right:

http://youtu.be/SFC8nHuvop0

I have attached a photo of the moment I find odd and think may hinder his ability to jump/ learn lead changes. I also have a photo of his conformation (I know it's not great for critique, sorry).


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

His nearside hind looks to be stiff in its action. He is so croup high with it set back more than average which is making his back behind the saddle long and potentially weaker than it should be. That can be a sign of sacroiliac problems which would make his canter work difficult


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## mslady254 (May 21, 2013)

He has the highest croup I've ever seen , or the pictures all make it look that way. He doenst look quite as high in the video. I only saw the right lead in the video, if there was any left lead, I missed it. In the right lead, he looks stiff on the right hind, and also short strided on the right, possibly on the left as well.

You might want to google 'hunter's bump' (aks SIJC syndrome) : here's one website: Help With Hunter's Bumps | Equine Wellness Magazine

From that article :The clinical signs of SIJC syndrome (SIJCS) include stiffness, lameness, sciatica, tight hamstring muscles and pain in the hindquarters. *A poor quality canter*, unwillingness to work on the bit, and refusing to jump are common complaints from trainers with horses who have SIJCS.

You might want to watch this: 




I'm not saying this is his problem, but it might be. Good luck.
Fay


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## EmmaWay24 (Aug 5, 2012)

Yikes! Does that mean he's the most downhill horse you've ever seen? I worked with three trainers with him and they've all said he is slightly downhill, as many quarter horses are, but not bad. Although I know trainers tend have a hard time criticizing student's horses.

He is cantering to the left when he is going down the long rail in the distance (half the video). I think he is worse to the left. 

I've thought about a hunters bump as well but he's just so happy about jumping and works on the bit really well at the trot - his only sign is the canter issue, which I suppose could be the tip of iceberg... Would you suggest I push my vet to look harder at this point - do you think it looks serious enough to point to a clear health concern and not a young horse learning to use himself?

Also - yes, long weak back. We have done so much hill work to strengthen - his muscles have really popped up on his back - he can canter/trot up and down hills easily for 25 minutes straight. Still though, If this is a pain/confo issue how much can strength really help?


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

He might not be in pain at the moment - it could just be altering the way he can move
That's not to say he might not have trouble in the future if you pushed him too hard in the jumping
Have you ever had a good chiro look at him?
Good video mslady


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## mslady254 (May 21, 2013)

Well, there's only one pic of him standing on level ground without a saddle on, and he doesnt look terribly down hill in that...somewhat, but not that bad... ....I wonder if without the bump, he is actually level-ish to a bit uphill,,,which keeps him from looking as downhill as you would think with the very 'up' croup. I'm no expert!! far from it..and I havent been around horses for years and years, so maybe some folks with more experience will weigh in..... 

I agree that it would be good to have a good equine chiropractor evaluate him. I think that video I linked said that they can help with the hunter's bump (if that is indeed what he has). 
I don't think it's a young horse learning to use himself, but again, wait to see what more experienced people have to say. 
I have no idea if something that looks that way can be conformational.

From what I read on the article I gave you the url to,, hunter's bump can be from a fall or other injury,,it doesnt have to be from jumping.
I need to re-look at the pictures, I actually thought he looked pretty short-backed. 

He's very cute ! and very lucky to have you looking out for him !
Keep us updated when/if you get further info.

Fay


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## EmmaWay24 (Aug 5, 2012)

Thanks a lot for your feedback! I too am anxious to see what others see. 

I truly appreciate your honest evaluation of his conformation faults - the problem with this horse is he is so incredibly happy, good natured and willing that I think people close to him start to gloss over his issues - which could be significant (every owner knows that guy feeling something is off). If we can't accomplish our goals without him being hurt then I need to find him a happy trail rider to lease or buy him (not sure I could actually sell - May be my goals that go on hold).

I'm going to ask my trainer for her chiros number this week! Will keep this thred updated.

Again, anyone with experience similar to this or with a horse with SI issues I'd love to here the outcome, what worked and what you would do if this little guy was yours


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I do not think he's outrageously downhill, and he doesn't look like he's struggling with balance . I'd love to see him trot and walk.

what I see is that he takes his left rear off the ground pretty quickly, I mean, he does not allow it to go very vary far behind in a weighted capacity. to do this, he would have to open the angles of the hip and the stifle, and it looks like this openning of them is what is uncomfortable, not the bending of them. his left buttock looks really tight and a bit "lumpy".


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## Tryst (Feb 8, 2012)

I know you said your vet has seen him, but what about a chiropractor? He definitely seems stuff through the hind end. Does he show any discomfort when you manipulate his hind legs and run your hands down his back?


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

Subbing. Love bucksins and interested in hearing what the others/your vet & chiro say.


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## EmmaWay24 (Aug 5, 2012)

I will try to get walk trot videos this week to upload. He has been off adequan for a month and a half now and my trainer thinks he's not reaching as well in the trot so he will be starting a monthly regimen of adequan now. Also trying to set up with the chiro this week - I'm excited to see what she thinks!

He shows no signs of pain touching his legs. I can hoist them up, pinch squeeze, whatever and he's as happy as can be! Maybe the chiro will be able to manipulate 

Here's the only other video I have - a little jump I set up after a lesson and went through once - I was trying to figure out what my position looked like so I could better understand my trainers instruction. Not sure it shows much except he can bend his hocks... Thanks a lot everyone! Appreciate the feedback a lot. Sounds Like an SI issue from the comments

http://youtu.be/0GY4wrfhxgw


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Next time you do videos go both directions so we can see the horse from both sides. Need a video of trotting not over things


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## EmmaWay24 (Aug 5, 2012)

^ yes I know, I'm hauling horses across the country this weekend and unable to get new video.

I did find these clips of him at the trot that I forgot about. This was a few weeks after he started on adequan. We were working on using a driving seat to achieve a more forward trot.

http://youtu.be/movK1EOjGU4

I know My position isn't great - I'm not a beautiful rider and I forgot my helmet this day - I usually never ride without.

Anyone see anything? I know he's quick behind but doesn't seem to different than other quarter horses I've seen when ridden English in a more forward trot (they often just seem to lack the suspension IMHO). But perhaps he is funky in his trot as well?


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