# Can't get horse to back undersaddle



## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

This seems to be a problem for quite a few posters these days. 

You have to think of backing up as a forward movement. You drive the horse forward with seat and legs and block that forward energy with your reins. The horse has no where to go with that forward energy except backwards. The second he makes one step back you release all the aids. You cannot pull a horse backwards. 

I teach them with a verbal "back" on the ground and use the word "back" with all the other aids (seat, legs, rein) undersaddle. If you release the aids before he "tries" you have just trained him to ignore your aids.


----------



## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Backing up IS a forward movement.
MY WORDS EXACTLY, Sahara--Well PUT!!! (you are now my new bff)
@HollyBubbles, you need to teach this from the ground FIRST. I taught my 5 yo gelding to back really well last winter by integrating it in his everyday routine. He learned "walk on", "halt", "back" (in different order each time so he couldn't anticipate it) every time we went from his stall to turnout. You use pressure with the word, release, then praise. Then you translate it under saddle. Also, it doesn't help to have your horse back with a steady pull of the reins. You need Sahara's advice, and you give the same release as you did on the ground. Otherwise, in the future (when you put your friends on your horse to ride) somebody may hang on the reins and panic when you horse continues to back.


----------



## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Have someone on the ground give his familiar "brushing" cue, or whatever it is he knows, while you ask him to back from the saddle.


----------



## HollyBubbles (Jun 22, 2009)

He knows the command verbally and responds to that well on the ground. We practise this every day whether I ride or not, so he's got it down from the ground, the past week or so he hasn't needed any brushing on the chest from the ground.

I can put the bridle on and get him to back from the ground with that, without the chest brushing now, and I always release the pressure as soon as he takes a step back.

I never release the aids undersaddle if he doesn't take a step backwards, when I try it undersaddle I always have someone with me to brush his chest if I can't get him to back up first, and after over two months of doing this he still won't back up undersaddle without help.

Every now and again he leans back like he's about to take a step backwards, but he won't actually take the step, what should I do when he leans back but won't take the step?


----------



## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

Use more leg pressure. That might mean alternately bumping heels against him or bumping together....whatever works. Now you have to get past his mental block that if he waits it out you will eventually give up. Up the pressure until you get a response. You may have to exaggerate all your aids. Sit tall in the saddle, don't lean forward at all and hold the reins steady and bump bump bump with your legs till he makes an effort to move back. When he does, praise the daylights out of him and move on to something else.

Do you have any control over his hips? Can you yield his hindquarters? You might try doing that and move directly in to backing so he doesn't have sticky feet.


----------



## HollyBubbles (Jun 22, 2009)

Sahara said:


> Use more leg pressure. That might mean alternately bumping heels against him or bumping together....whatever works. Now you have to get past his mental block that if he waits it out you will eventually give up. Up the pressure until you get a response. You may have to exaggerate all your aids. Sit tall in the saddle, don't lean forward at all and hold the reins steady and bump bump bump with your legs till he makes an effort to move back. When he does, praise the daylights out of him and move on to something else.
> 
> Do you have any control over his hips? Can you yield his hindquarters? You might try doing that and move directly in to backing so he doesn't have sticky feet.


 Thankyou, will try that this afternoon hopefully. I'm always a bit worried that he will go up instead of backwards, he hasn't ever done that yet but my old horse used to go up when she didn't want to go back so that always plays on my mind a bit. Didn't matter whether it was me riding or someone else if she had enough she went up.

Not yet no, I don't think that has ever been established with him as far as I know but I would like to teach him and be able to do it. We're working through things slowly


----------



## Lauren Woodard (Jul 7, 2010)

> I'm always a bit worried that he will go up instead of backwards, he hasn't ever done that yet but my old horse used to go up when she didn't want to go back so that always plays on my mind a bit. Didn't matter whether it was me riding or someone else if she had enough she went up.


Please keep in mind here that a first "response" isn't necessarily a step. All movements follow this initial awareness. Mind, flexion, shift/weight, feet.
It will help you immensely and your horse if you set yourself up in the position to ask your horse to back, keep your hands still and soften when the mind is touched. Then, set yourself up again and go for mind, flexion. Obviously, you continue. The benefits here are that you will find the horse is given time to assess the request and whether or not he wants to comply and instead of ladder-rung jumping (ie: demanding a step) it builds the movement and relieves the two of you from the need to go up.
Don't just say backup when you haven't the beginning requirements for that movement.


​


----------



## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

what are you doing with your body while in the saddle ? it can sometimes help to lean forward slightly when asking them to back


----------



## HollyBubbles (Jun 22, 2009)

I generally sit tall in the saddle, I've tried leaning forwards but he takes that as a cue to go forwards so I stopped doing that.


----------



## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

This is not a rare thing. I have reschooled several of these horses over the years.

Some horse just 'make up their minds' that they are not going to back up. They make a 'stand' and this becomes a much bigger thing to them than a lack of a correct response. I would not do any of the above suggestions --- I would not take a chance of him 'flipping' over on you. When one really makes up their mind, they are not safe to put any more pressure on than you have already done. They are very prone to flip or strike out at a ground handler once they have made up their mind.

I would put him in a side-pull or a snaffle that has a rope over the nose so that the reins pull on the nose more than the mouth. 

Then, I would put him in driving lines. I do not run the lines through the stirrups. I use an 'over-check' to keep a horse from ducking its head and I run the reins through big rings that I attach to the back girth rigging rings on a stock saddle. I drive the horse three or four times without asking it to back up. I drive it making left and right circles and drive it over and through many obstacles. I want a horse to be really responsive and 'handy' in long lines before I ask it to back up. 

Then, I drive it into a corner and do whatever it take to get him to back out of that corner. I will spank it on the butt if nothing else works but it WILL come out of that corner without turning around. Usually, a bridle that pulls on the nose as well as the mouth and getting a horse responsive to the long lines 'softens' up the horse and they just back up.

Try this approach and let us know if it works. The main thing is too stay safe. A horse that has made up its mind to NOT do something can sure 'blow up' on you. It is a different ball game than a horse that is lacking schooling. He KNOWS what you want him to do.


----------



## HollyBubbles (Jun 22, 2009)

Thankyou for that, I might just give that a go, once I have a hold of the gear I need to do it. Hopefully it works


----------

