# Do you think she's really pure Arabian?



## cowgirlfitzy (Jan 27, 2009)

Yea I think she is.


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## HorseArtist (Apr 22, 2008)

I would agree. Pretty girl!


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## Qtswede (Apr 16, 2009)

does she have any white markings on her nose (yes, I know she's grey) any pink skin within a white marking (or whiter in this case) means they're not purebred. Even if they have full blood arab papers, something else is in the woodpile, so to speak. That is what my friend that specialized in arabs told me. Also, it's kind of hard to tell from those pics. Winter coat likes to hide form a little.


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## Miss Katie (Dec 30, 2007)

Thats interesting about the markings. Im gonna look at every arab I know next time I see them...


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## ponyhorse (Apr 25, 2009)

im no expert, but i dont think she 100% pure. it seems there's a little something else in there. and the breeder lied about age, so he could be lying about her pedigree.


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## tempest (Jan 26, 2009)

Don't purebred Arabs have black skin? Or horses with quite a bit of Arab blood in them?


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## weefoal (Apr 4, 2009)

This is a black skinned horse but its also a true grey. So was probably born black and turned white as the grey gene took over. Grey is very common in arabs.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Looks Arab to me. She's a little long, but that could just be a conformation "fault." Not all purebred Arab's look the same.


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

looks like an arab to me?....

if anything... maybe an arab/refined qh?


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## Qtswede (Apr 16, 2009)

I"m trying to remember the conformation things she told me.... I may have to ask. 
She looks like she's got a little quarter in her though from her head, and the fact you said she doesn't have the full tail twist. If she was that old, and papered, it would be perfectly acceptable for her breeder to call her full arab. As I had said, there could be up to half of another breed, and still be called an arab on the papers.


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## Shawneen (Apr 22, 2009)

I'm guessing the "breeder" you bought her from didn't have papers on her? Was she ever registered? She doesn't look full Arab to me. I was also thinking she had a Quarter-ish look to her.





Wallaby said:


> She seems pretty stocky to me to be pure Arabian, *but she has the right attitude, and intelligence for an Arabian.*


I've seen Arabs (as well as any horse) all over the spectrum as far a discipline goes. Which breed's are not as intelligent as an Arab? Or have a worse attitude?


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

Shawneen said:


> I've seen Arabs (as well as any horse) all over the spectrum as far a discipline goes. Which breed's are not as intelligent as an Arab? Or have a worse attitude?


I didn't mean to offend anybody with that...  I've met plenty of intelligent non-Arabs and I never meant to say that they, or she, have a bad attitude. 
Most of the Arabians I've come in contact with, which I must admit, aren't that many, have had a very alert, but kind way of doing their stuff. I'm not saying a different breed can't be like that, I've just met a higher percentage of Arabs that are like that. 

She doesn't have papers and her previous owner (her breeder) didn't give me any information on her sire and dam.

That's interesting about the pink skin... I don't think she has any, at least on her face she doesn't. Actually her hind fetlocks are pink skinned...


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## Qtswede (Apr 16, 2009)

I had to think about it, and look at her side shot a good long while to remember more, and it looks to me that she doesn't break down build wise like an arab. Not a bad thing. I had a great Arab/Quarter/Morgan cross as a kid, and she was a great horse. As far as the coloring when she was born - horses can be born any color and turn grey. I've seen chestnuts & bays turn grey by the time they were 7 or 8. That Grey gene is kinda cool - and sneaky.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

She's a cute mare. There are such variances in all breeds as far as the confo goes, that she might very well be. To me she doesn't quite as fine boned as most purebreds I have seen and there is something about her shoulder and neck that screams something other than arabian.

I have seen some draft crosses that looked nothing like draft, and that goes with a lot of other breeds I have seen as well.

She's a gorgeous little thing either way.


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## HorseSavvy (Mar 15, 2009)

I agree, I don't think she's 100% arab, but you can see the arab in her.


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## BarneyBabby (Nov 18, 2008)

i have no doudt in the world that shes not!


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## boxer (Feb 20, 2009)

She does look arab to me but she looks more like the older style arabs, not the more refined show arabs you find these days. She is a cutie.


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## nldiaz66 (Jul 27, 2008)

she doesnt look arabian to me, arabians have black skin and distinctive head shape and high tail carriage, all arabs carry there tail high when running, they are also hot horses, very spirited.They also have short backs and very large nostils for their little faces.Look at the one in my avatar or I'll try to post one here.


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## NicoleS11 (Nov 21, 2008)

i think she looks like an arab...more of the polish side of arabians.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Qtswede said:


> any pink skin within a white marking (or whiter in this case) means they're not purebred. Even if they have full blood arab papers, something else is in the woodpile, so to speak. That is what my friend that specialized in arabs told me.


I have never ever heard that.


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## reining girl (Jan 30, 2009)

i would say maybe just a hint of QH in her, other wise she looks like an arab. She is a cutie.


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## jxclass19 (Feb 1, 2009)

She looks full Arab to me. 
Defiantly Polish.
My mare had one pink dot on her nose and she was polish Arab. 
Solid Arab linage.


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## AES (Apr 28, 2009)

She really _could _be purebred. Especially considering her age, she looks like the old style arabs. In fact I've seen many purebreds that looked extremely similar to her (so much so that I wouldn't doubt similar breeding). If she was conditioned, cleaned up nice, those arabian features would pop out quite a bit more. 
She very well could have some other breed in there, but I would guess it's a small percentage. 
Did you get her from her breeders? You might ask them (if you haven't already) her parents names, and if they were registered.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

I'm pretty sure her parents were registered since according to her breeder she could be registered, the breeder just didn't do it for an unknown reason. =S

I think I'll ask my riding instructor, who used to know this lady, whether she has any contact info for her. It would be interesting to see her pedigree and actually solve the mystery. Haha


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## AES (Apr 28, 2009)

Qtswede said:


> does she have any white markings on her nose (yes, I know she's grey) any pink skin within a white marking (or whiter in this case) means they're not purebred.


This is actually _false_. Many purebred arabians have white skin under their markings. Arabians are blood tested before given their papers (purebreds), it's pretty difficult to sneak another breed in there (unless, of course, a partbred is given a similar looking purebred's papers:?)

There are even maximan sabino purebreds. (yes, there were even sabinos in the original desert horses).

The no white allowed thing was a relatively recent (within the last 50 years or so i believe) *trend*, in the arabian show world. White markings were considered unattractive, and so horses with noticable white no one bothered to register. _This doesn't mean they weren't purebred._

Luckily, the trend didn't last

Check out these guys (all purebred sabinos)


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

I think she could be full Arab. I know Arabians that aren't real typey, but they're definitely purebred. She's pretty.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

Well I'm pretty sure I found her dad. Ammunition Arabian

And interestingly enough I was looking back through the horses in his pedigree and she looks really similar to Comet:










IMHO they have a very similar back end among other things.

Funny thing too, if you look at my conformation picture of Lacey in the OP and if you look at this picture of Comet, they have their legs exactly the same way. Haha Randomly.

And it looks like whoever said she was probably Polish is right, about her dad's side at least.


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## HeartsongHorses (Jul 4, 2009)

Qtswede said:


> does she have any white markings on her nose (yes, I know she's grey) any pink skin within a white marking (or whiter in this case) means they're not purebred. Even if they have full blood arab papers, something else is in the woodpile, so to speak. ....


I own an Arab and I am involved with two Arabian breeding/showing barns. I haven't ever heard such a thing. Can you show me something here on the net that talks about this? 

I will ask around the Arabian people I know, but I am pretty sure that the skin under all white markings is pink (no matter what the breed)? 

With this logic then pure bred Arabs cannot have any white markings?


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## SFMoneyMarket (Sep 20, 2008)

I think she could be full, she's probably polish bred.

The saying about white skin under white markings is definatley not true. My horse is full blood arabian, I've got his papers and he comes from one of the leading arabian horse breeders in the nation, and he's got white skin under his socks and snip.

Also, you really can't base it off of her looks. Here's my purebred guy, who is extremely stocky and has a very straight profiled head. He also doesn't carry his tail high, and has long, sweepy movement instead of the high action that is accepted in the arabian world. He's also very, very well bred. His dam's sire is El Ghazi, his sire's sire is Cognac. He's also triple Bask, he just didn't get the typey looks.


























So, honestly, you will never know for sure if she is purebred or not without papers, but I think she is =]


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

Well I found her dad if you look at post #28 and I guess he has some pretty big names in there like Bask (only once, but still, haha) and Comet.

Who knows about her mom (you'd think it'd be easier to find her mom but no) but after looking at pictures of the horses on her dad's side, especially Comet, I'm inclined to think she is pure. They all seem to have that chunkier look to them which is the main thing that was throwing me off.

And I love your boy SFMoneyMarket! He looks like such a sweetie. =)


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## SFMoneyMarket (Sep 20, 2008)

Thank you =] Your girl is very pretty as well! I personally like the polish stocky arabs!

It's awesome that you found her dad, now only for the mama!
She's definatley polish.


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## DisneyCowgirl1901 (Sep 3, 2009)

She looks all arab... I have seen many "old" bred egyptian arabs that look a lot like her. When I say "old" I mean before they started breeding for the super dished face. She's gorgeous BTW how old is she???


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

Thanks!
She's 24. =) My cute little old lady.


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## lalaleelu (Aug 30, 2009)

*Hmmm*

My mum has an arab, and im not sure that your horse is 100% arab 
she has some things that are arabian but no probably not fully


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## XxHunterJumperxX (Jul 11, 2009)

Noo, definately something else in there.
Beleive me, I would know. Her nose is too flat, and she doesn't carry her tail that high.
She may have a hair of quarterhorse in her, or some pony. but she is not purebred =]


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

This horse is 24 years old, and if you were to look back at some of the horses that far back you will not see the concentration and focus on refinement that you do now a days. I've seen several horses of her breed type who have papers to show they are full blooded; and even now, you can still find horses with this conformation. 

I think Lacey is a purebred.


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## dominoschica (Sep 1, 2009)

When I first looked at your pictures, my first thought was "Quarab". But when I saw the picture of her sire, it makes a lot more sense why she is the way she is. He does look more stocky, not petite like the typical Arabs we are used to these days. And your mare looks a lot like him! I'm going to say purebred. =]


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## Lori1983 (Jan 9, 2009)

I used to look at old Arabian magazines of my grandpa's for fun, and they were from the 1970's. I have to agree, there were some older types who had her look. Either/or...she could go either way. I can't believe her age! She looks phenomenal! LoL, I have heard Arabs are long-lived...if so, you may have some good years left with her.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

Yeah after finding her dad I'm inclined to say she's purebred too. Especially since she was bred when Arabs were "the thing".

Her dad's bloodlines are mostly polish from what I hear (I'm totally not an Arab bloodline expert) and if you look up Polish Arabs on Google you'll find tons of stocky looking Arabs. =)

Thanks Lori1983! You'd never believe that a year ago she was about 200lbs overweight and about an inch away from foundering. Yay for resilient old ladies! 

Here's a picture I took a few weeks ago that I think makes her look a bit more "typey" and shows off her Arab-y ears and eyes. =)











She's just a manly Arab. =P


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## SFMoneyMarket (Sep 20, 2008)

XxHunterJumperxX said:


> Noo, definately something else in there.
> Beleive me, I would know. Her nose is too flat, and she doesn't carry her tail that high.
> She may have a hair of quarterhorse in her, or some pony. but she is not purebred =]


 
Not true. This is my arab. He's full blood, papered, and not an ounce of anything other than Arab in him. He's got absolutely no dish in his face, and he doesn't carry his tail high either. He's also old polish bred, which explains his stockiness. You can't make that bold of an assumption without knowing bloodlines.

(Ignore what he's doing with his top lip, he was eating =P):

















Also ignore how overweight he was, he had a couple months off of work. He was just starting back at this point, but it shows how low his tail is set:







http://s114.photobucket.com/albums/...ket/?action=view&current=BarnOctober08139.jpg

Not picking a fight, just stating a point =]


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

I love his blinged halter and his plaid sheet! Haha


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## Pidge (Sep 5, 2009)

Could be an old fashioned pasture bred arab....have a friend who specializes in breeding the thicker heavy duty old blood arabs.

They have less dip in their faces and they tend to carry their tail lower...so I think she could be pure arab but its impossible to know unless you have papers which sadly you dont...either way pretty girl!


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## MTcowgirl (Jan 3, 2007)

It is pretty hard to say, SFMoneyMarket very well may be right and he's just the Polish bred. My horses are pastured with two full Arabians and one has the classic fine features, the other is kind of fat and stocky.

But there could be something else in his blood too. Either way he's gorgeous.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Pidge said:


> Could be an old fashioned pasture bred arab....have a friend who specializes in breeding the thicker heavy duty old blood arabs.


 
Pasture bred means the stallion and mare are turned loose at the time of cover. It has absolutely nothing to do with a type of horse.


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## SuperStarsSugar (Sep 9, 2009)

I see a bit of Thoroughbred. Maybe not half, but a quarter or something. Who knows?


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Qtswede said:


> does she have any white markings on her nose (yes, I know she's grey) any pink skin within a white marking (or whiter in this case) means they're not purebred. Even if they have full blood arab papers, something else is in the woodpile, so to speak. That is what my friend that specialized in arabs told me. Also, it's kind of hard to tell from those pics. Winter coat likes to hide form a little.


Forgive me, but this is the silliest thing I've ever read.
Unless, of course, you mean to prove to me that CAHR, AHA, SAHR, and all the blood typing by DNA is wrong.
Here's my DNA typed Pure blooded Arabians:




















(Who has a blaze)


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Anyhow, Wallaby, I am inclined as well to think she is purebred Arabian.
By my educated guess, I am going to assume she goes back to Bint Sahara (pictured below) - One of the most influential Arabian broodmares of all time - and contains some old Polish and Crabbett breeding such as Raffles and Skowronek.

BUT...That's my opinion. 
She's a gorgeous girl! 

Bint Sahara:










Raffles:


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

She might on her mom's side... I was able to find her dad and he had Bask, Comet and Witraz to name the big ones that I can remember. =) Here's her dad if you're interested: Ammunition Arabian

Hopefully one day I'll find her previous owner and be able to ask her what Lacey's mom's name was and then be able to totally solve this mystery. It'd be awesome if you're right WSArabians (I love your girl with white on her knee, I think that's such a pretty marking)! 

Thanks! I think she's a beauty too. =)


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## jensand305 (Apr 13, 2009)

my arab boy is stocky too and doesnt have the same conformation as the newer arabs, hes 25 and hes a big boy for an arab, he has a pink nose, im not an expert but i have am surrounded by arabs and ive never heard the pink skin thing. my boys pedigree is extremely solid also


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## jensand305 (Apr 13, 2009)

oh yeah and yes she looks arab to me, one of my friends arabs holds her tail low also, both of her babies held them high, not every horse is the same, my boy has g-grand father Bask on the dams side and grandfather Cass Ole, on his sires side. hence his name Cassabaskin


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## arabchica (Jul 5, 2009)

Qtswede said:


> does she have any white markings on her nose (yes, I know she's grey) any pink skin within a white marking (or whiter in this case) means they're not purebred. Even if they have full blood arab papers, something else is in the woodpile, so to speak. That is what my friend that specialized in arabs told me. Also, it's kind of hard to tell from those pics. Winter coat likes to hide form a little.


excuse me but i had a purebred arab that had pink skin under his white snip and sock everywhere else it was black skin and I had his pedigree from the breeder seven generations back so maybe your friend wasn't right and my gelding was quite stocky and yes she looks arab to me


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Qtswede said:


> does she have any white markings on her nose (yes, I know she's grey) any pink skin within a white marking (or whiter in this case) means they're not purebred. Even if they have full blood arab papers, something else is in the woodpile, so to speak. That is what my friend that specialized in arabs told me. Also, it's kind of hard to tell from those pics. Winter coat likes to hide form a little.


Where the heck did you get _this_ info? It's completely untrue. Your friend isn't very knowledgeable about Arabians if they believe something like this, regardless of how 'specialized' they like to tell you they are.

Like ANY horse breed, purebred Arabians can and do have pink skin under white markings. They also have the sabino and rabicano genes, which can result in varied coat color patterns.

Arabians are DNA tested, so 'anything else in the woodpile' would show up, which would make the horse ineligible to be registered as a purebred. Before they were DNA'd they were blood typed, which again showed up any non Arabian blood. DNA testing is required _before_ a foal can be registered, which weeds out the non purebreds.

OP, your mare looks like a purebred, perhaps of Crabbet or Polish breeding. Crabbet breds tend to be short and stocky, much like the _original_ Arabian breed looked like, before people starting mucking around and breeding the weedy, wasp waisted, swan necked junk they are nowadays.

Does she have any Al Marah blood in her background? Bazy Tankersley has stuck close to the original ideal of the breed, and her horses are lovely examples of what an Arabian is _supposed_ to look like.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

Speed Racer said:


> Does she have any Al Marah blood in her background? Bazy Tankersley has stuck close to the original ideal of the breed, and her horses are lovely examples of what an Arabian is _supposed_ to look like.


I don't really know. Currently I only have her dad's pedigree ( Ammunition Arabian ) so her mom could be basically anything still. I have been told that her pedigree is awesome on her dad's side up to the last 2 generations or something. I know nothing about Arab bloodlines but I've been told that her lines (on her dad's side) are mostly Polish with a smidge of Crabbet.
I'm a fan of Lacey's type of Arabian too. =) I like how she's just typey enough to be really attractive (when she's moving, haha she's not so hot when she's standing still) but then I don't have to worry about her breaking herself because she's such a light weight. Haha


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Her father's name was Ammunition, not Ammunition Arabian. :wink:

He was definitely Polish, with some Crabbet thrown in there. Quite an impressive pedigree, although Bask was _the_ stallion to breed to back in the 1970s, so I'm not surprised to find it in this guy's bloodline.

My old gelding was Crabbet/Polish bred, and had several crosses to Bask, as well as Sakr and Serafix. His father was a well known stallion in the late 1970s-early 1980s by the name of SX Conquistador.

I had him for 21 years. Lost him 2 years ago when he was 25 y/o. I still miss that boy. :-(

So yes, your mare could definitely be a purebred. I wonder why her breeders never had her registered, though. Even if her mother wasn't an Arabian or only a part Arabian, she could have been registered as a Half Arabian, since her father was blood typed and registered.


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## hiwaythreetwenty (Oct 2, 2009)

She looks like a polish/crabbet arab mix. But again it is hard to tell because if she was a mix it may be hard to tell as sometimes a quarter cross or morgan crosss (anything cross) may resemble one side more then the other. My half arabian mare looks more like a morgan cross but she has the personality of an full blood her half sister who is a pure polish looks more arabian but acts more like a quarter horse. Your mare does show arabian traits. She is not as refined which is why I would lean toward her being a polish or crabbet line.


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## AppyLover615 (Sep 16, 2009)

The horse in my avatar is a arab/paint. and it reminded me of the way your horse kinda looked in the first pic, but I would guess she is truly an arabian unless somewhere far back there was some other breed thrown in. 

this is an interesting discussion btw 

~AL615


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

^^I'm glad you think it's interesting, I think it's interesting too. haha =)

Lacey definitely acts like an Arabian. haha In a good way, I'm a fan of the kind of horse that goes when you tell it to and stops promptly and that needs you, she definitely fulfills that. =)



Speed Racer said:


> Her father's name was Ammunition, not Ammunition Arabian. :wink:
> 
> So yes, your mare could definitely be a purebred. I wonder why her breeders never had her registered, though. Even if her mother wasn't an Arabian or only a part Arabian, she could have been registered as a Half Arabian, since her father was blood typed and registered.


I know her dad's name was Ammunition. I just put the link to allbreed and it changed to Ammunition Arabian changed to when I posted. Haha

That's a good question. I think it's probably since they never intended to breed her (and they never did) and they intended to keep her her entire life. Those are the only things I can think of because they weren't cheap people (I don't think...I mean she got her vaccinations on time and she got her teeth floated and the vet came whenever she was a little under the weather etc) and they absolutely loved her. She was pretty much the lady's baby girl.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Ammunition was still alive in 2004. I don't think he's alive now, but it's possible. He'd be 34 now. 

Khemosabi lived to 34, and some Arabians live even longer.

I'm not saying her breeders neglected her, but even if you_ plan_ to keep a horse for life, things can change. A registered horse has better odds of finding a good home than a non registered one, especially if they're DNA typed. That's all I'm saying.

For some people registration doesn't matter, but for others it's a _very_ big deal, especially if they want to attend breed shows. An unregistered animal isn't able to be shown at breed shows.

In fact, since your mare isn't registered, it's a moot point whether or not she's a half Arabian or a purebred. 

According to the AHA, she's a grade horse, thus not an Arabian at all. She may have Arabian traits and features, but for all intents and purposes she's a grade by AHA standards.

Her breeders should know this, which is why I find it puzzling they wouldn't have had her registered.


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## FoxTrottrGrl (Oct 21, 2009)

I used to work for an Arabian barn - we had straight Russian and Polish Arabians. She looks Arabian to me. Not all Arabians have the really distinctive jibbah (dished head), and her back is long, but some Arabians are that way (we've all heard they have fewer ribs/vertebrae, but that's not always the case). I've seen straight Arabians with hindquarters that looked like they belonged to a Quarter Horse. 

As for the "pure Arabians don't have any white skin"...yeah, that's not true. RD Five Star, one of the stallions I worked with, a straight Russian, and a fairly well-known sire, has pink skin under his white markings, and he's as Arabian as they come.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Unless I'm mistaken, I believe EVERY horse has pink skin under the white markings (obviously grey's are the exception as it's not the true color, just a de-pigmentation of color). There may be an exception or two, but it's pretty much a universal rule that any white markings will have pink skin beneath them, the rest of the animal will have black skin.

And she definately looks Arab to me. Good old fashioned Arab. They're not all skinny looking stick figured pogo legged giraffes y'know. She has the refinement and daintyness, I'm definately seeing pure Arab.

And just as a classically hilarious example - this is my gelding Playboy, who is 100% purebred Arabian. He was bred on my grandpa's farm by his registered stallion Lyn-Sur Karasma and out of his registered mare Seynde Star. Do you think Ansata Ibn Sudan would be ashamed to know this is what his great grandson looks like? :lol:









































And yes, I've actually had people call me a liar :lol: Don't ask me what was wrong with these genes, both of Karasma's sons looked idental (Playboy's half brother Allah). His fillies were fine, but his colt were just ugly as sin.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

As an added note, the tail has nothing to do with it. She's obviously moving out at a low, long trot which my Arab mare does and never raises her tail. She only does a pig curl with her tail when she's prancing or galloping about like a maniac.

Prancy Zierra:









Calm Zierra:


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